1 upvotes, 1 direct replies (showing 1)
View submission: Do non-binary identities reenforce gender stereotypes?
You state that women don't feel like women, but want to be. That also constitutes someone's gender identity.
As a nonbinary person, I disagree with the statement feelings don't define nb identity. I realise you state it should be taken along with social context etc, however let's also distinguish between "feelings" and a sense of *identity.* You are correct that no one gets to *demand* a set of "feelings" etc, but that is not in any way what I was doing - I made no demands or gatekeeping of identity. However you must agree that identity isn't contingent on how we present - closeted trans people are valid and should be respected, non-passing trans people as well. So it does also come down to *honouring* people's sense of identity.
And yes, not caring about feelings in relation to one's body doesn't constitute harmony between the two, I'm not sure that I ever stated this.
I'm not sure how it is, as you put it, "transphobic AF" to state that trans people's identities should be respected, and that this isn't always immediately apparent if judging by externals only, and that identity is something that is known internally to a person. In no place did I write something to "box trans men and women" into an invasion of privacy by defining them based on personal feelings, but that you believe so indicates that perhaps we have a difference in understanding what *identity* is, and what it means to identify as a particular gender. In general I do believe thay people should ask and respect identity as we can't know this simply by looking at someone. To state we shouldn't need to think about people's inner feelings seems needlessly callous and disrespectful.
As a nonbinary person, my comments stem largely from my own lived experience and years of thought into my own gender. Nonbinary falls under the trans umbrella, though I cannot speak for all trans people, to attempt to do so would be to set myself up for failure.
Comment by YourDadCallsMeKatja at 15/01/2025 at 12:17 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Your identity can be about your feelings. Defining it as such collectively is where it gets problematic and nonsensical. If your definition of yourself is predicated on making stuff up about how other people feel, it's obviously not respectful of others.
It's a bit like when people call themselves things like "demisexual" and define it as "unlike everyone else, who are sexually attracted to others on sight and can have sex immediately upon meeting, I only experience sexual desire for people I have gotten to know long enough to be attracted to their personality". Everyone else has the right, at that point, to reject being defined that way and to question who this person thinks they are to make such extreme statements about those who don't identify as demisexual. They don't suddenly have to aubmit to this random person and start calling themselves demisexual too.
You identify people not on "how they present" but what they tell you about their identity. Not what they may or may not feel inside. There's no world where it would be appropriate for you to hear someone say "I don't feel like my gender, I don't really understand what feeling like a man or a woman could possibly mean" and you get to respond with "according to the definition, that makes you non-binary" or where you can hear about a woman's wish for a penis and declare her to be a closeted trans man based on your definition. The only way to identify someone as non-binary is when they tell you that they are non-binary, at which point your questions should end. The only way to identify a trans man is when he tells you he is a trans man, at which point you stay out of asking invasive questions.
When it comes to non-binary identities in particular, they are very culture-specific and even community-specific, and definitely generation-specific. The meaning of it can be drastically different from one person to the other. There are also many ways men and women experience and express gender in non-binary ways without identifying with non-binary as a fixed identity separate from their gender. Their difference with you is one of social and political concepts, not of deep feelings about who they are.
In short, there's no room for people's intimate feelings in a definition of gender (or lackthereof) because no one has to share their feelings and no one gets to make assumptions about feelings. If you define things in a way that gives you permission to form beliefs about someone's inner feelings when they mention their gender or transness, you're disrespecting people. Your individual lived experience does not trump other people's when it comes to their own identity and human rights.
ETA : not every trans person thinks NB is part of some "trans umbrella"