12 upvotes, 3 direct replies (showing 3)
View submission: Do non-binary identities reenforce gender stereotypes?
Oh, sorry if it wasn't clear, obviously you don't have to be a category at all! Usage of specific terms can help, and it was not meant in an exclusionary sense.
Categorising someone *else* as a particular gender or type of gender expression isn't really a thing, I mean it's something people should tell you about themself, well it's good manners anyway for a person to be the one to tell you personal things about themself. (As a sidenote, using "sex/gender" implies the terms are interchangeable, however they are not.)
Sex is your physical body and hormone expression. Gender expression is your outward self-representation, how you express your gender, how you function in terms of social roles, etc. And of course there's the internal sense of gender.
For most people these things all align and so no thought at all goes into it - these people are referred to as "cis", and Latin prefix meaning "on the same side."
Not all people have this experience, and don't have the luxury of being able to put little to no thought into it. How freeing it would be, as you said, not to! (Yet I'm sure there's a quote somewhere about the unexamined life...) Where the body's sex doesn't match with your internal gender sense, that is referred to as "trans", or "on the other side."
I wish I could share your sense of comfort at not having to justify who I am or explain. For me, I have to always choose between going through the patient explanation like untangling Christmas lights, or deal with never really being quite known, not being able to simply be myself. It feels like wearing someone else's skin, it's awful.
I find it curious that you are talking about "now" standing outside of social norms - you must realise that these norms are painful to some, and stepping outside is like a breath of fresh air. Yes, other people can be tiring. It is what it is, and it's better than the feeling of suffocation.
One thing I fail to see though, is how some people identifying as nonbinary limits the gender expression of people who aren't. They can freely move around within their genders, too, and are free to choose not to give a flying rat's if they so choose.
Comment by YeeBeforeYouHaw at 12/01/2025 at 17:18 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Gender expression is your outward self-representation, how you express your gender, how you function in terms of social roles, etc. And of course there's the internal sense of gender.
This is the part I don't understand. If a male person can be male and express himself in any way he wants while still being male. How could his gender expression conflict with being male? If gender can be anything an individual wants it to mean, then it means nothing, and the word shouldn't be used at all.
The whole purpose of words is for communication between the speaker and the listener. Communication requires both parties to have the same meaning of a word for the communication to work.
If someone is non-binary that communicas zero information to the listener because that person could express themselves is any was they want (just like anyone can). This is different than someone being male/female because that tells you what's between their legs. That can be useful information like in to a doctor or when searching for a sexually compatible partner.
In my view, either gender = sex or the word gender is meaningless.
Comment by poli_trial at 12/01/2025 at 12:26 UTC
4 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Sex is your physical body and hormone expression. Gender expression is your outward self-representation, how you express your gender, how you function in terms of social roles, etc. And of course there's the internal sense of gender.
For most people these things all align and so no thought at all goes into it - these people are referred to as "cis", and Latin prefix meaning "on the same side."
Not all people have this experience, and don't have the luxury of being able to put little to no thought into it. How freeing it would be, as you said, not to! (Yet I'm sure there's a quote somewhere about the unexamined life...) Where the body's sex doesn't match with your internal gender sense, that is referred to as "trans", or "on the other side."
You must be like 17 or something to think this is some sort of wise/expansive understanding of the phenomenon. It's written almost like some politically correct ChatGPT blurb or something. It's stated as fact even though its really just the the current opinion of gender studies departments whom have fallen in love Judith Butler. The problem is... this is ***one*** perspective. It's become enlightened in the last 10 years ago, but I'll remind you that 50 years ago the concept of gender barely existed. 50 years from now, it may not exist either or exist in a vastly different conceptualization. This idea that all of this is self-evident is really just a cognitive bias towards us thinking our beliefs are eternally right. However, there are other ways to conceptualize sex and gender and how one relates these concepts. None of this is the natural state of things and I can nearly guarantee you that your definition as quoted above will likely sound archaic in 50 years even as it seems obvious to you now. IMO, it's best to remain humble about these things and not preach like you're doing here.
I find it curious that you are talking about "now" standing outside of social norms - you must realise that these norms are painful to some, and stepping outside is like a breath of fresh air. Yes, other people can be tiring. It is what it is, and it's better than the feeling of suffocation.
It feels like a breath of fresh air in case where one has accepted the heuristic of gender, internalized it and views rebellion against it as a meaningful action. Is that the ideal response to address issues though? Generally, in therapy people are trying to shed triggers and negative attachments to the things that bother them and yet somehow this idea of modern gender ideology has managed to convince everyone exactly the opposite is the path towards greater enlightenment.
One thing I fail to see though, is how some people identifying as nonbinary limits the gender expression of people who aren't. They can freely move around within their genders, too, and are free to choose not to give a flying rat's if they so choose.
Umm, it's not clear that ideology and the way people are categorized affects the functioning of society? Let me introduce the concept of race to you (which is itself and abstraction in the same way gender is). Race was conceptualized as a way to differentiate humans based upon the perceived differences of skin color. In the 1600s, people didn't think it was thing and yet they definitely do now. In theory, it gives you another identity to play with and you can choose to emphasize or not. The flip side of it is that it also gives something to other you by as well. Does this additional way of describing ourselves bring us greater freedom or mutual understanding? If you follow its historical legacy, I would argue it doesn't.
In terms of new nonbinary gender categorization, who knows, it's still evolving, but the first indicators seem to be that its part of a labeling frenzy that doesn't seem to bring much use and rather yet another way of diving people into ever smaller identity groups that people fight about.
Comment by Additonal_Dot at 14/01/2025 at 08:43 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I find it curious that you are talking about "now" standing outside of social norms - you must realise that these norms are painful to some, and stepping outside is like a breath of fresh air. Yes, other people can be tiring. It is what it is, and it's better than the feeling of suffocation.
Painful like the pain women or men feel who are forced to adhere to social norms about their gender you mean? What social norm is it exactly that you find painful? I’d say tear down the social norms, instead of creating a whole new set in the form of different boxes you can fit yourself in.