82 upvotes, 4 direct replies (showing 4)
Women have had to create these communities of support largely due to the struggles they’ve faced, and it turns out (unsurprisingly) that makes them often more resilient to loneliness. But I don’t think anyone here in any way suggested that women as a group owe men the social support they need. What I find puzzling about this response is that it kind of erases individual interactions. I meet lonely people of all genders regularly, when they’re putting in the effort to put themselves out there. I was extremely lonely for a while due to disability, in spite of being in a relationship - there are many types of loneliness and they have different challenges. But when I talk to people and make friends I don’t do so on the basis of gender. It’s just not even something that occurs to me. I’m nonbinary and afab, but I’m not selecting for other afab or nonbinary or even queer people when I go out into the world. I happen to end up close to many queer people in part because of the communities I hang out in, but I’m not choosing not to support cishet people out of some desire to only remain in my in-group.
Anyone is free to personally choose not to interact with or make friends with people from any group. But I find it strange that so many people are adamant about men only relying on other men, as if they go through life only open to certain kinds of non-sexual relationships with certain genders. Maybe I’m just too queer to get it, maybe the women in my circles are too, but that just always strikes me as odd in more cishet gender dynamics. No one is owed anything, men aren’t owed relationships or friendships with women… but no one here is stating otherwise and it’s strange that this is such a knee jerk response. This is the sort of truism that seems unhelpful. Like there is nothing wrong with men hoping to be friends with women, there is nothing unfeminist about becoming close to men as a woman? It’s anyone’s right to select for relationships by gender, lesbian separatists put their money where their mouth is and focus only on forming community with women. But is this constant refrain helpful? Especially here, where no one is suggesting it’s women’s jobs to fix men’s loneliness. People are exploring how gender can impact the way loneliness is experienced, what form the loneliness can take, what methods for addressing it exist (including how women have formed communities of solidarity). But comments like this just come off as tone deaf, like people need to take out their frustrations with men as a whole on the guys proactively trying to understand and address their issues (and all of our issues, as atomization, alienation under capitalism, and the erosion of community impact us all).
I’m trying to understand what value is added by telling men they should only look to other men for support and companionship. Men here overwhelmingly agree men need to do more for each other… it feels like this is a response to an issue in other spaces instead of what is actually being talked about here.
Comment by LincolnMagnus at 15/02/2025 at 10:18 UTC*
29 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Another nonbinary here and these loneliness conversations really drive home for me how utterly fucked the gender binary is. My entire life I've tended to make close friends of all genders, and my life is richer because of it. I don't understand why huge sections of cishet society trap themselves in the assumption that men make friends with men and women make friends with women and the genders only interact in the context of a romantic relationship (and of course we nonbinaries don't exist).
I mean yes, if people just don't want to be friends with a particular gender, or if they have trauma connected to a certain gender, they should be free to structure their lives how they want and need--but I suspect that a lot of people live that way mainly because it's the societal expectation. And that leads to all this "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" crap where people believe the genders are alien species who can never understand each other.
My life is richer because of my female friends, because of my male friends, and because of my nonbinary friends. I wouldn't be as emotionally well-rounded as I am without all of these folks in my life. Again, not everyone has to be friends with everyone. But I think that breaking down some of these cultural silos would do a lot to alleviate many of the gender-related problems we have. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would help.
Comment by Opposite-Occasion332 at 15/02/2025 at 14:54 UTC
24 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I think your last paragraph is spot on. Some men have made the loneliness epidemic into the “I don’t have a gf/ sexual partner” epidemic. Those men aren’t really the same men that exist in this sub. Some women then want to make clear men are not entitled to their emotional labor or sex. But as you said, the men here don’t really need to be told that.
The other day on NPR they were talking about the loneliness epidemic and I think that had a very good, non-gendered take on the matter!
https://www.npr.org/2025/02/14/1231335525/here-now-anytime-02-14-2025
Comment by pretenditscherrylube at 17/02/2025 at 20:07 UTC
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Also nonbinary. I'm AFAB, and I was cishetero presenting until I was 30. The advice that men need to support other men is valid, I think. Not because friendship decisions should be based on the gender binary, but because wayyyyy too many cis het men rely on women for ALL forms of social and emotional support.
I have a few cis het male male close friends, but for the most part, I have stopped making those connections for close friendships. Too often cis het men use their female friendships as surrogate girlfriends, and they rarely provide reciprocal levels of support. Too often, they call me to dump their soul out to, but then in return, are a good vibe only type friend to me.
To many cis het men can ONLY be vulnerable with women, and they use their female friends as emotional outlets without any greater interest in building a reciprocal relationship.
Alas, this is how patriarchy harms men, no? They can't be vulnerable with each other (or they will lose status), but they know they need to be vulnerable. Instead of challenging these norms, instead they just choose to unload their vulnerability on pseudo-partners.
Comment by Rabbit_Dazzling at 16/02/2025 at 18:24 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
As a woman myself, although being autistic, loneliness for me has always been there. I have a soft spot for men and women who are facing loneliness. I can see both sides. Before I found my long term partner, I felt better by myself than with dating or making friends. This was due to a feeling of discomfort. Men often would make comments about my past and belittle my traumas. Being someone who has a traumatic past, I just couldn’t bring myself to continue opening up to these potential partners. With women, I didn’t feel like I could keep up with the social dynamics and complexities. I felt like I was completely inept when interacting with women. I really do feel for both sides and wish we could both just be open about what is going on. I think it is really hard to provide support for a demographic you cannot understand or relate to. Like the rich providing services for the poor. They just wouldn’t get the nuances of being that specific group of people. It would be awesome to have people who could meet in the middle.