576 upvotes, 28 direct replies (showing 25)
View submission: Out with 2016, in with 2017
1. Yes. The limiting factor for improvements isn't ideas, it's our ancient codebase and hesitation to break things like RES and custom styles. In that respect, I feel like we've been held hostage from a development point of view (Stockholm syndrome?). That's why we're so excited to rewrite desktop web. It's going to be a doozy, but worth it in the end.
2. Please send to contact@reddit.com
3. Yes. I'll follow up there. I know it got a little derailed with Spezgiving and the holidays.
4. If u/sodypop says so, that's the way it is
Comment by awkwardtheturtle at 25/01/2017 at 19:09 UTC
150 upvotes, 6 direct replies
Important follow up question regarding Question 4:
How do **you** feel about onions? Are they:
We appreciate your answer. Please keep in mind that only one of these answers could result in the esteemed and remarkable reward of being made a moderator at /r/OnionHate.
Have a nice day.
Comment by [deleted] at 25/01/2017 at 18:30 UTC
143 upvotes, 3 direct replies
I feel like we've been held hostage from a development point of view
Does this mean reddit will prioritize utility over design? Because current proto reddit 2.0 designs are pretty but lacking entirely a lot of functionality. On mobile this may work out, but your power users are on desktop. How will you tackle that?
Comment by honestbleeps at 25/01/2017 at 20:17 UTC*
180 upvotes, 10 direct replies
Yes. The limiting factor for improvements isn't ideas, it's our ancient codebase and hesitation to break things like RES and custom styles. In that respect, I feel like we've been held hostage from a development point of view (Stockholm syndrome?). That's why we're so excited to rewrite desktop web. It's going to be a doozy, but worth it in the end.
I had no idea reddit had gotten to the point where RES breaking was considered a hindrance on its ability to update the site...
this is news to me, and something we'd have been more than happy to help coordinate with / work on - even as a bunch of unpaid schlubs. I've always expected reddit to periodically break RES - it relies on specific HTML structure and CSS classes to exist.
after years of just breaking RES before (which is FINE - RES is a volunteer run free extension, break it all you want), Reddit has in the past couple of years been kind enough in the past to say "hey, heads up, we might break RES or we want to know if this will break RES"? ... and that was great -- hey, reddit's trying to give us a heads up so we can maintain RES better!
but now you're phrasing it as if this beast I created has held back reddit's ability to innovate.. and that feels like buck-passing onto me and my team.
Comment by mkdz at 25/01/2017 at 18:26 UTC
265 upvotes, 4 direct replies
The limiting factor for improvements isn't ideas, it's our ancient codebase and hesitation to break things
The story of software development everywhere
Comment by courtiebabe420 at 25/01/2017 at 18:51 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I know it got a little derailed with Spezgiving and the holidays.
It got derailed with a response from admins that was tone deaf to what moderators wanted and expected out of the project. I would love for it to come back, but it needs to be clear what the goal is, so we don't get blindsided with "guidelines" that don't actually solve any of the problems we thought we were solving.
Comment by Cryzgnik at 25/01/2017 at 18:49 UTC
50 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Hey, I count 5 questions and 4 answers
Comment by postExistence at 25/01/2017 at 18:46 UTC
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I can relate. When you have an archaic code base with little documentation and little memory of ***why*** you did things, you have to work around it - not *with* it.
Comment by Sirisian at 25/01/2017 at 20:14 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
It's probably too late, but I created a Reddit redesign[1] from a moderator's point of view over a year ago. I know one of the developers saw it, but I'm not sure if any others did. A lot of the ideas there solve a vast number of subreddit customization problems and could solve a lot of things that come up in /r/ideasfortheadmins.
it's our ancient codebase and hesitation to break things like RES and custom styles
As others pointed out years ago if you simply add all the features or direct replacements into the site this would be fine. Essentially take and integrate the functionality of RES and Modtools so that they are no longer required. No one would complain if this was done well.
Comment by [deleted] at 25/01/2017 at 18:29 UTC
26 upvotes, 3 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by flashmedallion at 25/01/2017 at 21:24 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
hesitation to break things like RES and custom styles. In that respect, I feel like we've been held hostage from a development point of view
As someone who spends lots of time playing with reddit css, I wish I could have told you years ago not to worry and just go and do it. We all like figuring out new things.
The current platform can be a bitch as it is being held hostage in turn by stuff like RES, and dealing with different viewing platforms let alone OS and desktop/mobile.
Looking forward to a clean slate and exploring what we can do with it.
Comment by blue_2501 at 26/01/2017 at 01:47 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Yes. The limiting factor for improvements isn't ideas, it's our ancient codebase and hesitation to break things like RES and custom styles. In that respect, I feel like we've been held hostage from a development point of view (Stockholm syndrome?). That's why we're so excited to rewrite desktop web. It's going to be a doozy, but worth it in the end.
Sometimes you got to suck it up and break a few eggs. Every major piece of software goes through complete redesigns and refactors. If they don't, they don't last.
And this is coming from a user that will probably be annoyed at the kind of damage that breaking a few eggs will cost. But it has to be done.
I mean, look at FARK. Deep down, it's basically the same web site they launched almost 20 years ago. Still no comment voting. Still the same old tech that never adapted to how forums work now. Still unwilling to change.
Comment by negajake at 25/01/2017 at 20:26 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I like that reddit's format doesn't seem to change as often as youtube or facebook.
Comment by soundeziner at 28/01/2017 at 22:10 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
When might you get around to item 3 in your list where you claim you will follow up in /r/CommunityDialog?
There are moderators who have clearly expressed concerns over the last post there (including myself in wondering if Admin is going to hold itself to the same guidelines it wishes to put on the moderators such as consistency and responsiveness). Instead of working on bridges with moderators beyond the defaults, it came across like Admins intentionally getting as many mods on the bridge and torching it.
Comment by panic at 26/01/2017 at 00:46 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Hey spez, fellow 11-year club member here. I understand why you're rearchitecting the site, but redesigning the home page at the same time is a huge mistake. If you want to fix the architecture, do it incrementally while keeping the site exactly the same. Once the code is more maintainable, then you can mess with design changes. Rewriting everything at once is the classic recipe for software disaster[1].
1: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/
Comment by tikotanabi at 25/01/2017 at 18:23 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Common issue that many websites/companies have to deal with. Most big companies have to rewrite their programs / websites to optimize it at some point. Always a pain in the ass, but when done properly, it's beneficial for everybody involved.
Comment by belly_bell at 25/01/2017 at 19:08 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
On "1." - is it impossible to build a parallel framework to test the integration on? It would give you the opportunity to do a ground up re-write, and an avenue for beta and alpha testing.
given you could just be wasting a bunch of time/money, but the cliff is coming regardless, you either prepare to go over it or prepare ...uh... after you go over it... the analogy got away from me a bit there.
Comment by Garo5 at 25/01/2017 at 20:37 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Just a word of caution: Gather feedback early, be prepared to run old and new along for a long time and especially be prepared that everybody will hate it. We did a complete layout rewrite with major codebase changes in another web based community site with about 500k users back around 2009 and it backfired a lot. :(
Comment by [deleted] at 25/01/2017 at 21:31 UTC*
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Re point 1, couldn't you have a beta Reddit site (maybe beta.Reddit.com) that serves out your updated interface for a while, say a couple of months, to allow RES to adapt to it before applying the changes to the main site?
Comment by Archivemod at 26/01/2017 at 05:18 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Have you considered a newgrounds-style rewrite to be built and implemented on a seperate test server? Seems like it might be wise if you're having the same problem Furaffinity has.
Comment by DarreToBe at 25/01/2017 at 18:27 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
If you don't have any lack of ideas then why was /r/communitydialogue nothing more than a base level brainstorming session about some pretty basic questions that never amounted to anything of substance?
Comment by pier25 at 25/01/2017 at 19:47 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
That's why we're so excited to rewrite desktop web.
What stack are you going to use?
Comment by FormerGameDev at 25/01/2017 at 18:54 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Ancient code is an excuse for either "don't want to" or "don't know how to".
Comment by [deleted] at 25/01/2017 at 18:39 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Being able to re-write a many year-old codebase, then transition over to it, is one of the most satisfying things I've done in my life.
Comment by ShaneH7646 at 25/01/2017 at 18:24 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Another question. Do you have any plans to change how r/redditrequests requests work?
Comment by [deleted] at 25/01/2017 at 19:45 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Are you going to stop editing others' posts?