created by spez on 14/07/2015 at 21:06 UTC
0 upvotes, 96 top-level comments (showing 25)
Hey Everyone,
There has been a lot of discussion lately —on reddit, in the news, and here internally— about reddit’s policy on the more offensive and obscene content on our platform. Our top priority at reddit is to develop a comprehensive Content Policy and the tools to enforce it.
The overwhelming majority of content on reddit comes from wonderful, creative, funny, smart, and silly communities. That is what makes reddit great. There is also a dark side, communities whose purpose is reprehensible, and we don’t have any obligation to support them. And we also believe that some communities currently on the platform should not be here at all.
Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech, but rather as a place where open and honest discussion can happen: These are very complicated issues, and we are putting a lot of thought into it. It’s something we’ve been thinking about for quite some time. We haven’t had the tools to enforce policy, but now we’re building those tools and reevaluating our policy.
We as a community need to decide together what our values are. To that end, I’ll be hosting an AMA on Thursday 1pm pst to present our current thinking to you, the community, and solicit your feedback.
PS - I won’t be able to hang out in comments right now. Still meeting everyone here!
Comment by [deleted] at 14/07/2015 at 23:02 UTC
3272 upvotes, 4 direct replies
"We want to start monetizing reddit, and some ad companies won't use us unless we get rid of some of these subreddits"
Comment by TheCocksmith at 14/07/2015 at 21:13 UTC
2971 upvotes, 2 direct replies
So, basically whoever predicted that Ellen Pao was a scapegoat for unpopular whitewashing of Reddit was right?
Comment by vertigo3pc at 14/07/2015 at 22:04 UTC
2147 upvotes, 5 direct replies
We as a community need to decide together what our values are.
I think that's an absurd statement, the kind of corporate speak that alone will destroy this website. You're asking a community of people, who come from numerous communities from all ends of the spectrum (many whom hate each other), and asking them to establish common values? That's amazing, why haven't the warring nations of the world, ethnic groups pledged to destroying each other, and all people everywhere agreed to do that? They can't.
Comment by [deleted] at 14/07/2015 at 21:29 UTC*
4123 upvotes, 4 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by kojak488 at 14/07/2015 at 23:37 UTC
2578 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech
Aside from the Forbes quote Alexis' own Reddit account has some exerts that imply otherwise:
We're working to spread empathy + understanding to as many people as possible -- people aren't just coming here because it sets the media agenda for the rest of the internet, it's because of the connection that happen when diverse people from across the world can speak freely about things they care about.
We designed reddit to allow users to create the experience they want -- subscribing to communities they're interested in and creating distinct spaces with their own cultures, languages, and values. Any decision we make is always tested by: "Is this moving the reddit platform toward a place where it can be the best way for as many people as possible to find great communities to share freely and openly discuss the things they care about."
https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscussingDTOL/comments/2urgiv/lets_write_our_own_letter/colokor
We made reddit so that as many people as possible could speak as freely as possible
https://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/35ym8t/promote_ideas_protect_people/cr91bpm
reddit should be a place where anyone can pull up their soapbox and speak their mind, or have a discussion and maybe learn something new and even challenging or uncomfortable
https://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/35ym8t/promote_ideas_protect_people/cr92h5j
And many more. I mean fuck, kn0thing says in plain English:
You know what inspired reddit? Speakers Corner's in London
Comment by Helium_Pugilist at 14/07/2015 at 22:34 UTC
4966 upvotes, 6 direct replies
Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech, but rather as a place where open and honest discussion can happen
[Here is Alexis literally calling it a bastion of free speech] (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/02/reddit-co-founder-alexis-ohanians-rosy-outlook-on-the-future-of-politics/3/[1])
Comment by [deleted] at 14/07/2015 at 22:27 UTC*
2350 upvotes, 5 direct replies
Here's a tip, stop acting like your users are stupid. We aren't. You *did* in fact champion this place as a bastion of free speech and that's what drew your massive user base. **Stop fucking pretending you aren't changing your minds because you are.** Deal with this like adults instead of being fucking cowards about it.
"Yeah, the free speech thing wasn't paying the bills. We're gonna be policing a lot harder from now on."
And if that's the case, why didn't you ask your user base for suggestions on how to make more money? You've done it before when you were struggling and from what I understand the Reddit gold progress bar on the side helped things out. If there's more that needs to be done why not trying to ask us yet again?
I can already think of one creative solution and that relates to the "decentralized Reddit" project going on. If you guys had figured out a way to allow users to tie in offsite subreddits it would reduce your server load and your responsibility for certain content without alienating your userbase.
Comment by [deleted] at 14/07/2015 at 22:58 UTC
869 upvotes, 4 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by PikachuSnowman at 14/07/2015 at 21:20 UTC
193 upvotes, 1 direct replies
This sounds like a complete reversal...
Comment by TheFatJesus at 14/07/2015 at 22:19 UTC
1278 upvotes, 3 direct replies
It was awful nice of reddit to give Voat notice to get their servers ready.
Comment by [deleted] at 14/07/2015 at 21:19 UTC
2025 upvotes, 3 direct replies
This is gonna be a fucking disaster.
Comment by [deleted] at 15/07/2015 at 01:22 UTC*
133 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by DuhTrutho at 14/07/2015 at 22:13 UTC*
3655 upvotes, 5 direct replies
EDIT: HOLY SHIT LOOK AT THIS YISHAN POST HERE!
Sucks to be you, /r/coontown[4] - I hope you enjoy voat!
But... the most delicious part of this is that on at least two separate occasions, the board pressed /u/ekjp[5] to outright ban ALL the hate subreddits in a sweeping purge. She resisted, knowing the community, claiming it would be a shitshow. Ellen isn't some "evil, manipulative, out-of-touch incompetent she-devil" as was often depicted. She was approved by the board and recommended by me because when I left, she was the only technology executive anywhere who had the chops and experience to manage a startup of this size, AND who understood what reddit was all about. As we can see from her post-resignation activity[6] , she knows perfectly well how to fit in with the reddit community and is a normal, funny person - just like in real life - she simply didn't sit on reddit all day because she was busy with her day job.
Again, Ellen isn't a great person at all, but to hear all of this from /u/yishan is just god damn unbelievable. Where do I punch my card? _______________________________________________________________
I've already made this post as a reply to a comment chain, but I feel it will work as a standalone.
Before we begin, the uninformed may want to know who all these user names belong to.
/u/kn0thing is Reddit cofounder Alexis Ohanian. /u/yishan is former Reddit CEO Yishan Wong /u/spez is former and now current Reddit CEO Steve Huffman
/u/kn0thing was the one who made the decision to fire Victoria and then let Ellen take the hit, all while say how good popcorn was.[1] (Thanks to /u/lastresort08)
1: https://i.imgur.com/Oe0QG1o.png
/u/yishan's comment:
It wasn't "we didn't handle it well" - Ellen actually handled things very well, and with quite a bit of grace given the prejudices arrayed against her and the situation she was put in - *you* didn't handle it well. There was tremendous amounts of unnecessary damage done as a result, and we are only able to say that things might turn out ok because Huffman agreed to return and take up the mantle.
Not to mention the fact that Reddit's chief engineer just quit. But she did seemingly confirm that Ellen was indeed put on a glass cliff. Also, she left because she felt she couldn't uphold Reddit's promises to mods... (Sorry mods).
Perhaps now that we have spez and kn0thing back at the helm who are obviously great friends, you can expect that things will begin heading in the direction that kn0thing intends them to in order to obtain profit by marketing Reddit as a place where everyone can come and discuss what they want. /u/yishan has been going crazy with this lately.
https://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3cs78i/whats_the_best_long_con_you_ever_pulled/cszjqg2
Why not add this article too so you can feel worse about using Reddit?
http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/14/8958249/reddit-blackout-ama-alexis-ohanian-ellen-pao
Or perhaps kn0thing, the social media expert, could be moving to make Reddit a friendly place for corporate entities to bring in those social media dollars?
https://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?viewemailid=282044
Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech, but rather as a place where open and honest discussion can happen
God damnit you guys. Are you kidding me with this?
Speaking of the founding fathers, I ask him what he thinks they would have thought of Reddit.
“A bastion of free speech on the World Wide Web? I bet they would like it,” he replies. It’s the digital form of political pamplets.
Edit: Also, please don't misunderstand my post and think I believe that Ellen was an angel cast down by Alexis. I COULD HAVE EASILY BELIEVED that Pao was just a terrible person to have in charge of Reddit based on the fact that she and her husband both filed failed discrimination suits[2]. Not to mention the fact that her husband stole money from FIREMAN PENSIONS[3] before Ellen tried to sue her former workplace for 2.7 million, the exact amount her husband owed in damages. It made sense that she was just bad to run the company and didn't know what was best for Reddit.
2: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/technology/ellen-pao-kleiner-perkins-case-decision.html?_r=0
3: http://nypost.com/2015/02/18/case-builds-against-former-ny-hedgie-buddy-fletcher/
But no, it apparently is much worse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't help but feel that kn0thing and spez have a plan for AMA and Reddit gift exchange that is profit oriented and required the removal of Victoria and kickme444.
And let's face it, banning subs that people may find offensive will mean that those people find alternatives like Voat, which means apologists here will say, "I'm glad those offensive people are gone, don't go to any alternative site because they are just filled with racists and bigots." It's perfect for Reddit's leaders really, because obviously you are morally reprehensible if you visit alternatives to Reddit that are filled with racists and bigots.
Perhaps we should think that if /u/kn0thing is pushing for something and acts like an asshole, then /u/spez, his former roommate and cofounder of Reddit, may just go along with whatever he has planned.
So, will Reddit actually be able to finish the mod tools in the coming months? Or will they be able to just lay the blame on someone and move forward. /u/kn0thing obviously knows how PR works, so I'm interested to see how things proceed.
Edit: Check out this transcript of a 2005 Reddit interview as well[4]... Feels really bad man. Alexis and Steve in the early days... They've certainly changed it seems.
4: http://transcriptvids.com/v2/5rZ8f3Bx6Po.html
I don't think this post is breaking any rules, so hopefully I won't be shadowbanned for it eh?
Comment by xyroclast at 14/07/2015 at 23:02 UTC
556 upvotes, 2 direct replies
"Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech"
What. The. Fuck.
Are we rewriting history now?
Did you seriously just say that?
Comment by stapler8 at 14/07/2015 at 21:16 UTC
581 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I'll be hosting an AMA
This'll go well. /s
Comment by jeblis at 14/07/2015 at 23:33 UTC
137 upvotes, 1 direct replies
https://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/pmj7f/a_necessary_change_in_policy/
We understand that this might make some of you worried about the slippery slope from banning one specific type of content to banning other types of content. We're concerned about that too, and do not make this policy change lightly or without careful deliberation. **We will tirelessly defend the right to freely share information on reddit in any way we can, even if it is offensive** or discusses something that may be illegal.
Liars.
Comment by theevilmidnightbombr at 14/07/2015 at 21:26 UTC*
5464 upvotes, 4 direct replies
"Hey Everyone,
We've already made a bunch of decisions, would you guys like to fire ideas at us before we tell you what they are?
Thanks"
edit: my off the cuff remark got gilded and blown sky, thanks guys and gals
Comment by [deleted] at 14/07/2015 at 21:19 UTC
3566 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by [deleted] at 14/07/2015 at 23:03 UTC*
736 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by [deleted] at 15/07/2015 at 04:26 UTC
83 upvotes, 1 direct replies
"Our top priority at reddit is to develop a comprehensive Content Policy and the tools to enforce it."
I laughed. Your top priority is to monetize the site for your investors by making it palatable for advertizers.
Comment by ponytarado at 15/07/2015 at 01:32 UTC
84 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Comment by theEnzyteGuy at 14/07/2015 at 21:16 UTC*
8297 upvotes, 17 direct replies
Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech, but rather as a place where open and honest discussion can happen[...]
When asked what the Founding Fathers would have thought of reddit:
Alexis certainly seemed to think of reddit as a 'bastion of free speech' at one point in time.
EDIT: I didn't think would continue to happen nearly 24 hours later, and I greatly appreciate it, but please, please stop buying me reddit gold. Donate $4 to an animal shelter or your favorite kickstarter, buy your dog a steak, buy yourself something you want but think it'd be stupid to actually spend money on, or wad it up and throw it at a homeless person. Just stop buying reddit gold.
Comment by ziptime at 14/07/2015 at 23:17 UTC
382 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Allow me to translate!
Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech, but rather as a place where open and honest discussion can happen:
We've changed our minds about free speech. We want to censor certain negative aspects of reddit, so it'll appeal more to advertisers, investors and a wider non-subversive user demographic.
These are very complicated issues, and we are putting a lot of thought into it.
We really want to ban stuff, but without the shitstorm like Ellen had with /r/fatpeoplehate and Victoria getting the boot
It’s something we’ve been thinking about for quite some time.
Our roadmap really wants those advertisers and investors on board.
We haven’t had the tools to enforce policy, but now we’re building those tools
We're writing tools to keep reddit clean and safe from anything nasty - which we can demo to advertisers and investors
and reevaluating our policy.
We're definitely going to censor more of reddit, but we're trying to break the idea to you gently....
Comment by [deleted] at 14/07/2015 at 21:20 UTC*
105 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[removed]
Comment by Blewedup at 15/07/2015 at 04:13 UTC
19 upvotes, 0 direct replies
it turns out free speech isn't easy to commoditize. so.... it's gone.
