146 upvotes, 22 direct replies (showing 22)
1. The ban system needs work. You're right, it was intended to be used against spammers and instead it's used for everything. We'd much rather have a system that makes sense to users and makes it clear "this is what you did wrong" as opposed to the current "maybe someday you'll figure it out and message us" system. I don't know that it's been happening more often but discussion and annoyance with the system has definitely increased.
2. The admins have never enforced/endorsed/supported NP links. They're a user-created hack. Brigading is a real problem and we know it. Before the events of this weekend, we already had some plans to address it and those are still on the table although not yet completed.
Comment by Dirty_Socks at 06/07/2015 at 19:34 UTC
27 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I think it would be a great thing if you guys could solidly decide what you mean by "brigading".
Either make np an actual thing (even as a hacky server side thing), or clarify what kinds of cross-linking is okay.
For instance, I think /r/bestof really adds to the community, even if it can unbalance small communities. It would be cool to have a concrete policy between "yeah, linking is okay" and "never participate in a linked thread, enforced by the server".
Thanks for reading.
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 20:23 UTC
35 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by Bossman1086 at 06/07/2015 at 20:21 UTC
13 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I just think it's insane that I can be shadowbanned (or any kind of banned) for clicking through to a new subreddit from a link in another when I genuinely like the content I discovered and could decide to become a permanent member of that community.
I get the need to punish brigaders and the like, but it sucks that people who just use the site are punished for it, too.
Comment by CommanderpKeen at 06/07/2015 at 19:30 UTC*
37 upvotes, 4 direct replies
On number 1, is that such a hard thing to decide on and implement? Have a meeting, agree that users should (at the very least) be informed when it happens. Then add a step so that when a shadowban occurs, a message is sent to the user in question. What am I missing about that being so difficult?
Edit: Please see below for some clarifications.
Comment by BerlinghoffRasmussen at 06/07/2015 at 20:42 UTC
9 upvotes, 0 direct replies
As to your second point, in this very thread[1] your CEO uses a NP link, which seems a lot like endorsing the practice.
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cbo4m/we_apologize/csu0kmv
Comment by ConcordApes at 06/07/2015 at 20:34 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The first step to addressing the Brigading problem is to define it. Before I used to feel free to comment on just about any topic of interest on reddit I come across. Now I avoid it for fear that I will be accused of brigading & banned/shaddow banned.
If I don't know the rules, I can't enjoy the site.
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 19:49 UTC*
22 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by apfpilot at 07/07/2015 at 01:15 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The ban system needs work. You're right, it was intended to be used against spammers and instead it's used for everything. We'd much rather have a system that makes sense to users and makes it clear "this is what you did wrong" as opposed to the current "maybe someday you'll figure it out and message us" system. I don't know that it's been happening more often but discussion and annoyance with the system has definitely increased.
FWIW when I inadvertently got myself shadow banned a few weeks ago your response and getting me unshadowbanned was wonderful and you deserve kudos for how quickly that was taken care of!
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 20:14 UTC
37 upvotes, 5 direct replies
Brigading is a real problem and we know it.
Then why the hell is SRS/SRD/BestOf/Etc still around?
Comment by [deleted] at 07/07/2015 at 00:49 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I don't know that it's been happening more often but discussion and annoyance with the system has definitely increased.
This is a gaping hole of a transparency problem that other websites are begging you don't fix, so that redditors will leave. You should know if it's been happening more often. There should be a public archive of admin/mod actions on users which are reflected on user profiles. There should also be a be an archive on admin/mod actions on posts, so that redditors know when they're being censored. Wikipedia has had this sort of thing for years. I'm not saying it will be an easy feature to implement, I'm saying you have deep pockets and it better be implemented if you want redditors to be committed to reddit, or if you want any credibility as moderators.
Comment by [deleted] at 07/07/2015 at 13:02 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
So were these low priority goals and projects before the public shit storm? And if so what were you guys originally working on?
Honest question, I'm genuinely confused. If the devs weren't working on, ya know, basic dev stuff, what have they been doing the past couple of years?
Comment by erveek at 06/07/2015 at 21:42 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Brigading is a real problem and we know it. Before the events of this weekend, we already had some plans to address it and those are still on the table although not yet completed.
So, how will these plans stop brigading by everyone but SRS?
Comment by smikims at 06/07/2015 at 19:46 UTC
4 upvotes, 1 direct replies
/u/kn0thing said those tools would be out be out by the end of the quarter, which I believe is the middle of September IIRC. Is that still the plan?
Comment by rexlibris at 06/07/2015 at 21:27 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Even 4chan has a better ban system than reddit. You fuck up and try to post and a big ol' splash page shows up saying you are banned for x time for y fuckery. This is some basic shit.
Comment by turkeypants at 06/07/2015 at 20:58 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I think shadowbanning is a great tool for the nastiest trolls and harassers. If they know they're banned, they figure out ways around it and just start over. They don't care about your explanation of what they did wrong. Let them think they're still doing their thing and waste their time in a way that doesn't actually affect anyone. That's both effective and hilarious. They don't deserve an explanation - they already know why before they deliberately start abusing. I guess the trick is in making the judgment call and distinguishing between critics of this or that and people whose only goal is to abuse or harass or drive others from the site. But surely some percentage of cases are clear enough.
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 23:46 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by CaptnRonn at 06/07/2015 at 19:43 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Thank you for your response. Much appreciated. I will keep my eye out for new reddit policies toward the ban system and brigading. There are many issues across Reddit but these two are my biggest concerns by far.
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 22:35 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
The problem with that is you will have to acknowledge people are being banned for political reasons, and then all the shady banning is brought to light. I've seen plenty of "we don't like what you had to say, have a banishment" screenshots posted frequently.
I'm not going to hold my breath on that one happening.
Comment by crafting-ur-end at 07/07/2015 at 00:40 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Are you going to address the subreddit ban or just the user ban because there are plenty of evil subreddits out there that brigade.
Comment by Azradesh at 06/07/2015 at 21:17 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Please explain *why* brigading is an issue and even if I accept that it's an issue how in the hell can you truly tell a brigader from a normal voter.
It's all just using reddit as it's made to be used.
Comment by NewAlexandria at 07/07/2015 at 00:30 UTC
0 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Sure, not that any of that believably-relates to what you'll do with SRS other than #BusinessAsUsual.
Agree with the other commenters – #1 is not really so hard to have done already, and the fact Reddit has not implicitly means that, even if you make shadowbanning changes, you heart is not really in it to create a suitable environment for discourse.
All of these users comments are slow-burn apologias for having invested all the time in this community, which #ChairmanPao and gang ahve now ruined. This site wasn't about news[1] – and now we witness a crash (in slower-motion than Digg) as people find the next possibility of a space suitable for human cultural innovation that is the ***real*** reason that people come and post here every day.
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cbo4m/we_apologize/csu68m2
And every one of these party-line BSs[2] are steps to the tomb.
2: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3ccqj1/what_rscience_stands_for_where_we_are_going_and/
Comment by LUK3FAULK at 07/07/2015 at 17:40 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
On the shaddowbanning: "we knew it was a problem but did nothing"