5694 upvotes, 42 direct replies (showing 25)
How do you feel about this comment[1] by /u/CaptainObviousMC.
The thing is... She's absolutely right, I 100% don't care at all about this situation, reddit, or the moderators. I'm a pretty apathetic content sponge.
That fact is deadly dangerous to reddit, because the moment the content creators jump ship, I'll follow them like the fair weather fan I am, because I don't care -- at all -- where I get my content, or about which corporation or moderators are involved. If reddit compromises its content stream by having moderators jump ship, I'm out too, not because I care, but because I don't.
So she's right -- most reddit users absolutely don't care a bit about this, or the site, or really anything. And that's why she can't afford to piss off the moderators, who are the people who do care.
What's hilarious is that the reddit administration seems unable to see that most people not caring is precisely what makes the moderators caring so dangerous: they're wielding my caring by proxy, because they hold the keys to content.
Edit: If you're going to gild this comment, just give it /u/CaptainObviousMC instead.
Comment by hittingkidsisbad at 06/07/2015 at 19:46 UTC
1403 upvotes, 8 direct replies
I think it goes hand-in-hand with this comment[1] by /u/Wienenschlagen
She's right.
The vast majority of Reddit users don't give a damn.
The vast majority of Reddit users didn't even notice.
The vast majority of Reddit users rarely even hit the voting buttons.
Reddit is not the vast majority of Reddit users.
Reddit is the communities that attract those users, and those communities don't exist without the moderators, the dedicated users, and the content creators.
Of those people, damn near all of them give a damn, and they're very, very upset with how this whole affair was handled.
Saying the "vast majority of Reddit users are uninterested" is the equivalent to saying "the vast majority of the United States is uninterested in its infrastructure."
No duh.
They'd sure be pissed off if it stopped working, though, and firing Victoria without any warning threw a huge wrench into the works.
Ellen Pao is out-of-touch with the company that she runs, the service it provides, and the people who use it. In her ongoing quest to make it a safe, marketable environment, she is driving it into the ground.
Comment by Binky216 at 06/07/2015 at 19:11 UTC*
1896 upvotes, 24 direct replies
This is SO damn true. This is the error Digg made. Yes, you have millions of users clicking on billions of links. Those links are provided/moderated by a very small minority of your user base. If you don't keep those users happy, then there will be nothing here for the "majority" to do.
Back in the day the talk was always about "The Digg Effect" that would bring down websites due to the flood of traffic a front page link would create. I bet the Digg folks wish that was still a thing. Without keeping the contributors / moderators happy, Reddit could be looking at the same problems.
EDIT: Yeah, I get that Slashdot was there before Digg. I used Digg as the example since by all accounts they imploded quite spectacularly. Slashdot still (at least in my opinion) exists in a tolerable state... And I get that Digg had more/different failings than the issues Reddit is going through. The similarities are that they didn't listen to their userbase and took them for granted when there were issues.
EDIT2: Grammarz
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 19:37 UTC*
36 upvotes, 5 direct replies
My beef with this statement is that generally moderators don't create the content, they moderate the content. So saying that if moderators leave, the content leaves doesn't really make sense. TBH, there's a ton of individual subreddits where moderators are constantly criticized and belittled - almost to the same degree that admins have been recently, just in a smaller space. I have trouble believing that redditors have any loyalty to their mods - at least not enough to follow them to other media sites.
While this comment certainly supports the "you better listen to us *or else*" argument, I don't think it's a particularly *good* argument. If there was ever going to be a massive exodus from reddit, it would be because the majority of **content creators** left for another site, not because of the mods. But to take it even farther - think about how much content on Reddit *isn't actually created by people posting it*. That content is easy to access and repost no matter where it originates from.
IMO, the people who actually **create their own content** won't leave until a site exists that's genuinely better - better tools, better layout, better stability. And that sure as heck isn't Voat.
Comment by HaiKarate at 06/07/2015 at 19:44 UTC*
17 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I agree with that comment 1000%. When this issue was taking over almost every major subreddit on Reddit, I basically dropped off for a couple of days, because I just don't give a shit. I see a lot of people making a lot of assumptions based off of scant information. But as far as I'm concerned, I'm just here for the content. Who the CEO is, who gets hired, who gets fired -- honestly, who gives a flying fuck?
Having been around the block a few times in the past 15 years (MySpace, Slashdot, Ars Technica, Facebook, Digg, and Reddit, to name a few), I have zero expectation that Reddit will be the site I am using a year from now. It's up to Reddit to keep earning my business every day; and not for me to tell Reddit how to run their business. As a consumer, I'm fickle as hell, and always ready to jump ship to the Next Big Thing.
Comment by HansJobb at 06/07/2015 at 18:36 UTC
841 upvotes, 7 direct replies
Damn. Never thought about it like that.
Comment by nDQ9UeOr at 06/07/2015 at 19:30 UTC
7 upvotes, 0 direct replies
That about sums it up for me as well. I'm here for the content, not the drama. Although in this case the drama is at least providing interesting content.
I like Reddit, but if it were to go down forever tomorrow, something else would take it's place.
Comment by Deesing82 at 06/07/2015 at 19:31 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I actually do care quite a bit about reddit because I'm pretty invested in it but this comment is right on the money. My loyalty only stretches as far as the content does.
Comment by self_defeating at 06/07/2015 at 22:52 UTC*
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
That implies that if moderators jumped ship all of the content would be gone.
Most content is submitted by users, not moderators. Moderators are there to enforce rules and deal with spam.
If the moderators left, new moderators would simply take over.
The only way I can see this making sense is if moderators *forced* their communities to jump ship along with them, for instance by shutting down their subreddits like they've been doing. (Which wouldn't last very long because the admins would just reinstate them, and it would be their prerogative to do so as it could be considered sabotage of their business).
This whole shit show is a temper tantrum thrown by a group of arrogant default mods who feel entitled to special attention by the admins even though the wiki describes perfectly well what the position of moderator entails[1]. The whole "stand for solidarity" by other subreddits was just massive bandwagoning.
I'm going to quote the key bit of that wiki article in big letters just so everyone sees it:
#A moderator is just a regular redditor like you except they volunteer to perform a few humble duties within a particular community
The behavior we've seen over the past few days has been *anything but* humble. Here's the article as it was two years ago[2] so you can see that nothing much has changed.
This protest had no legitimate basis as none of these moderators have any justification for demanding things by force, punishing users in the process and acting like holy shepherds. They're having a power trip.
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 20:09 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
When the first issue blew up early June this is all I could think of. I was thinking the entire time, "man, I just want my content, where can I find them?"
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 20:42 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
wow. just realized that's me. if reddit died and something else came up I literally wouldn't care at all
Comment by Holy_Shit_Snacks at 06/07/2015 at 19:03 UTC
6 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Perfectly put. I will go where I need to get my daily lulz. I care not what shell it is presented in.
Comment by InconsiderateBastard at 06/07/2015 at 20:39 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Such a fantastic comment. I am here a lot and I post comments pretty regularly. But if /r/patientgamers and /r/daystrominstitute decided to go to a different platform, I'd follow them.
Comment by NewAlexandria at 07/07/2015 at 00:38 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
But I stand by the assertion that these users are consuming content for deeper reasons. By coming, clicking, commenting, and contributing (if one does) ((pardon the alliteration)), your mind is learning and participating in a collective cultural process that signals engagement and consensus.
You can get your news from lots of aggregators — what makes this one different? The fact that is ~~does~~ *formerly did* the above.
Some are still trying to do it, but shadowbanning, inequality[1], inauthenticity[2], and heart-felt detachment from the core values[3] prevent meaningful rejuvenation.
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cbo4m/we_apologize/csu0ym1
2: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cbo4m/we_apologize/csu0imc
3: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cbo4m/we_apologize/csu09zq
Comment by Lamenardo at 07/07/2015 at 01:04 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Not only do I agree with Captai Obvious, MC, but I'm actually sick of things like this happening. I want to be able to read funny jokes, not see about 11 Ellen Pao jokes floating around, per hour. I want to be able to read funny, informative, spooky, sad, whatever, topics, not sign in and find out that half of reddit has blacked out over someone I didn't even know existed. I want stuff I'm actually interested in, not 'Ellen Pao is teh evil!!!!' everywhere. I don't even know who is at fault half the time, stupid immature redditers who happen to be abler to shout really loudly all over the place, or the people who run reddit. I don't really care. Stop making reddit unusable for everyone and sort things out.
Comment by vengeance610 at 06/07/2015 at 21:04 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
And it's not really *that* unlikely considering I've seen some of the reddit personalities showing up on Voat already (Unidan's got an account there now) and the content has picked up a lot from pre-Fattening. In fact, I find Voat to have more interesting content than the very curated reddit front page. Hell, there were multiple front-page TPP discussions, and that topic never saw the light of day here.
If reddit goes too far into the "safe" "friendly" curated content direction the user base will start to drift away (I don't see a Digg 4.0 style exodus, more of a slow bleed into irrelevance like Facebook).
Comment by GreatSince86 at 06/07/2015 at 19:51 UTC
6 upvotes, 1 direct replies
They've already been jumping ship.
Comment by OccupyGravelpit at 06/07/2015 at 22:06 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
because the moment the content creators jump ship, I'll follow them like the fair weather fan I am, because I don't care -- at all
Eh, I'd say that I'm apathetic the other way. Those mods can jump ship, but I suspect that there will always be a steady stream of people ready to take over the really popular subs.
So, those content creators can jump ship. Great! I'm lazy, though, and I'm unlikely to follow anyone anywhere. If we get new people running some of those default subs, will anything be that different?
I doubt it.
Comment by royf5 at 06/07/2015 at 20:39 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
My exact sentiment. I just didn't care enough to line it out.
Comment by [deleted] at 07/07/2015 at 07:25 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
This pretty much where I am with my presence on Reddit. I avoid most social media to be honest, and in most cases I just come to look at specific subreddit content. My replies are rather few and far between at all and I don't think I've ever "created content."
Yet, I'm one of many people that is going to follow those content creators somewhere else if they abandon Reddit. Because I have no vested interested in Reddit itself.
Comment by equipped_metalblade at 06/07/2015 at 20:53 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
This is the best explanation I have heard. I will follow the content. I don't care if the banner says reddit, voat, or whatever else pops up. But i do NOT want this to be Twitter or even want celebs (anonymous celebs are welcome) on reddit. It's soon going to turn into celebrities having their own subreddit and just posting whatever they would post on Twitter and then clogging up /r/all.
Comment by aazav at 07/07/2015 at 01:38 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
because the moment the content creators jump ship
A long time ago, I used to help moderate /r/natureporn, but focused on hosting a small subreddit for mostly OC nature content called /r/naturepics for the past 3 + years. We have a small set of nice submitters and a little over 3000 users. I've created and moderated the sub since its start.
3 years.
Fuck it.
Comment by ZSinemus at 07/07/2015 at 05:34 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Or if you're going to gild this comment just donate to a charity instead. Stop buying reddit gold, please people. It's painful scrolling through these comments full of people talking about how angry they are at the system, only to see them tagged with a badge that says "I agree, let me give reddit money in your honor" :-/
Comment by shithandle at 06/07/2015 at 23:20 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I think there is a difference between jumping ship to somewhere where the content creators go, or jumping ship to a site like voat which was chosen because users threw a tantrum because they weren't allowed to abuse and bully people people anymore.
Comment by greyjackal at 06/07/2015 at 22:20 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
More to the point, in my opinion, the CEO and board should be *completely* separate from the administration team. There should be no direct correlation between adminning or moderation and the running of the actual company.
Comment by jbourne at 07/07/2015 at 08:25 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
And the fact that a post with a picture of mushrooms growing in a restaurant, together with a shamu whale pic with some drunken people in it, is 10 posts higher than this one is testament to this sad truth.