8 upvotes, 2 direct replies (showing 2)
The community is not monolithic, first of all. There were, and are, a variety of opinions about the leaked pictures, and about certain subreddits. What would the reaction have been to banning? I don't know, but looking at the upvotes of some of the threads, there definitely wasn't a unilateral opinion of 'ban this filth', more the opposite. Imagine what could have happened had the admins stepped in at the height of the hype, and decided to ban this content.
Maybe you think it wouldn't be as big of a deal as the HD-DVD incident. Perhaps not. But you shouldn't underestimate the power of narrative. "Reddit is in the pocket of celebrities, promoting their AMA app!" "Reddit is being hypocritical, suddenly bending their knee because there are powerful lawyers at play!" "This content was never censored when it wasn't celebrities!" Cue clusterfuck. Some of this is already happening *without* the ban. You can't just start banning without thinking it through, or you risk a visit from Streisand.
Comment by 4698458973 at 07/09/2014 at 20:33 UTC
6 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I'm definitely not agitating for banning without forethought.
I think we're straying a bit away from the original point here, which is why I have to keep saying, "no, I didn't mean *that*..."
alienth has expressed dismay at some of the content on Reddit, and implied that he isn't the only one among the Reddit team. A vocal, if not large, number of other people have also expressed ... not even dismay, but revulsion at some of the content on Reddit.
The *only* people that can do anything about the content, practically speaking, is the Reddit administration team.
But they're refusing to do so, *and* they're not giving a cogent explanation for why. The blog post tries to offer an explanation, but it's not really that clear. For example:
...we deplore the theft of these images and we do not condone their widespread distribution.
But they *did* condone them, by the very definition of the word.
Actions which are morally objectionable or otherwise inappropriate we choose to influence by exhortation, emphasizing positive examples, or by selectively highlighting good content and good actions.
This *does not work*. r/thefappening should be the clearest example to date that this is a failed strategy. The admins must realize that at this point.
Virtuous behavior is only virtuous if it is not arrived at by compulsion. This is a central idea of the community we are trying to create.
Contrast this with alienth's statements. Significant parts of the Reddit administration are not happy with the results of this strategy.
So that's why I want to challenge their approach to censorship. Yishan's statements notwithstanding, Reddit is *not* a government (and *definitely* not a representative or democratic one). If they are unhappy with the service they are selling, then why not change it?
You rightly point out that censorship can be a slippery slope. Maybe it always has to be, I'm not sure. But, censorship is not at all a new idea for online forums -- it's just usually referred to as moderation. Every forum does it, *to protect the integrity of the forum*. Moderators are already a central part of subreddits (which is peculiar for a site whose administration seems to be saying that they want complete free speech above all else). I don't see any reason to believe that Reddit will fall apart if it does start censoring some of the nastiest content on the site.
And if being completely free is actually what Reddit wants to be, then with all due respect to alienth, who I think is a pretty cool dude, he might be working for the wrong company. Him, and a few others as well.
Comment by 4698458973 at 07/09/2014 at 20:42 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I just thought of a simple illustration.
Jim: Man, my car's always dirty.
Bob: *sips beer* So wash it.
Jim: I don't wanna wash it.
Bob: Why not?
Jim: *sipping beer* I shouldn't have to. Cars should just not get dirty. They should stay clean. Dirt should know better.
Bob: ...uh, ok.
Jim: But I really hate how filthy my car gets.
Bob: You know lots of other people wash their cars, right?
Jim: I'm different from those people. I don't want to be a car-washer. Car-washing is wrong.
Bob: Then you're going to have a dirty car. That's just, like, nature, man.
Jim: *sips beer, quiet for a few minutes*
Jim: I wish my car weren't so dirty.
Bob: Goddamnit Jim! For fuck's sake, you can't stand around complaining about how dirty your car is and refusing to wash it too. Seriously man, I love you, but I swear sometimes your head's on backwards.