13 upvotes, 0 direct replies (showing 0)
View submission: Trans Women, Male Privilege, and the Intersectionality of Patriarchal Oppression
Again, I think that you’re coming at this with an assumption of comparison that I appreciate feels inherent due to cultural context, but is simply not present in my comment, nor the original comment.
you are ignoring the content and context of my comment in favour of an (again, understandable) emotional reaction re how it feels in the context of a transphobic society.
This idea of “centring” is I think being misapplied here. Someone commented in response to the OP’s assertion that cis women don’t experience challenges re gender identity. You immediately started a game of dismissal and comparison rather than connection.
You took the expression of a DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE to yours as INHERENTLY negating or denying your experience, under an implicit assumption we are all in competition to establish who suffers most.
ie you seem to see any expression of experiences that aren’t yours as “decentering”. But why did you need to be at the centre of this post generally which is about ALL women, OR why did the above commenter or myself need to centre your experience in expressing our own?
I think again it’s unfair to insist I’ve “re-centred cis women”. I spoke to my experience without speaking for yours, while you seem totally confident that you should be able to speak for mine. You provided general descriptions re WHY your transition experience cannot be similar to or reflective of cis women’s experiences. I appreciate that using those descriptions as a basis to highlight the similarities of our experiences is, inevitably, centring my own experience…bc 1) that is what your comment demanded. You were saying that your experience was totally different…then used descriptors that confirmed similarities in the very experiences you dismissed as impossible. The way in which I am most able to explain why your descriptions indicate connections rather than rule out commonalities is by referring to my own experience. I don’t think it would be appropriate for me to centre an experience of transness that I haven’t had in my comment. So yes, my comment centred my own experience in some ways…but if you actually read it you’ll see it was inclusive to other people AFAB, so I’d say that insisting that discussion centres cis women is kind of trans erasure. I don’t see it as centring myself but rather attempting to meet you where you are and connect.
You are at the centre of your comment, I am at the centre of mine. We can only express what we know. So I’m aware that I centred my own experience. I believe that is appropriate in the context, which is finding meaningful commonalities and distinctions. To be decentred you have to have been centred…but there’s no engagement w why you have exclusive jurisdiction over the “centre”, why anyone has to be centred or sidelined.
“I’m scared to access public bathrooms”…for sure, I never denied that you would be or that that is horrible.
I know it’s horrible bc so am I, I’ve been sexually assaulted in public bathrooms. I’m not scared of transphobic attack and never claimed to be. But I am scared of rape, murder, harassment, SA and violence every time I leave my house…or don’t. Which is reasonable bc I have been repeatedly raped, harassed and SA’d.
This is not the same as saying my life is harder than yours and you seem to be struggling to understand that. You saying you are scared to access public bathrooms doesn’t in and of itself erase my experiences fear/violence bc it’s not a competition—there is plenty of oppression to go around. Just like MY saying I’ve been raped, SA��d harassed, mistreated by the medical establishment etc doesn’t in and of itself mean I can declare “I don’t have privilege over you”. this language—“privilege OVER”. Your insistence on viewing this as a comparison game that we can use to divide people into relative classes of human suffering is….(not to be dramatic but) LITERALLY WHAT THE FASCISTS WANT!
Never once did I say you aren’t aware of all these challenges. I was saying that you seem to assume that these are incomparable and lesser. My point was that if we look at it experientially instead of insisting on divisions, you might see more commonalities and opportunities for connection and CHANGE.
I am also confused to where I called you a man? Can you point this out pls?
you are simply dismissing me instead of engaging. You can tell from my comment I dont understand transmisogyny—how so? Can you point this out? My best friend is a trans woman and we constantly talk about these connections and disparities. I’m active in my queer/trans community and feel I’m aware of at least several trans women’s testimony of their experience, as well as the academic research and reporting I’ve read. Which is why I didn’t speak on trans misogyny, but rather spoke to MY OWN EXPERIENCE in the context of YOUR EXPRESSION OF YOUR EXPERIENCE. I didn’t profess to understand your experience but rather engaged w your expression of it. I never professed to be speaking to trans misogyny. you seem to expect to also be centred in my expression of my experiences, and believe that any expression therein is an inherent denial of yours, while participating in express denial of mine.
And you still don’t engage w the specific content of my comment, although I engaged w yours. If you cannot bear to hear about how people AFAB are impacted by the denial of their basic human rights without immediately viewing it as an exclusion, denial or decentering of your own experience of womanhood we won’t get anywhere as women.
I don’t know what “feminism isn���t intersections” means. Personally my feminism is intersectional as a queer, mixed-BIPOC disabled woman and rape/CSAM survivor. I don’t recognise exclusive feminists, whether that’s trans or race exclusive. And I don’t believe my comment did—if I’m mistaken, point out where.
I’ve never denied that cis women have societal privileges that trans women don’t, within and beyond feminism. But feminists, including cis women, have also done decades of essential research, academia, labour and activism which when done inclusively and correctly, laid the foundations for emerging trans rights and healthcare. This doesn’t negate that cis women are also major contributors to trans phobia. THAT doesnt negate that cis women struggle w their gender identity.
I’m curious what queer theory/feminist/gender-critical theory sources you are relying upon in order to reach this conception of intersectionality. Bc it is…not copacetic w mine.
I would ask you reread my comment and reply w evidence to back up the inflammatory accusations I’ve mentioned. I can’t apologise enough that you felt I implied you weren’t a woman. I do wonder to what degree this is something I said (even “obliquely”) or something this divisive worldview youre relying on encourages you to see. If I’ve exhibited a blind spot pls let me know so I can improve. Most of my closest friends are trans women and enbys, so I appreciate I can sometimes become over-familiar.
There's nothing here!