Trans Women, Male Privilege, and the Intersectionality of Patriarchal Oppression

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1id48k4/trans_women_male_privilege_and_the/

created by SuperPrussia on 29/01/2025 at 20:50 UTC

213 upvotes, 34 top-level comments (showing 25)

The discussion between cis and trans women regarding patriarchal oppression often sparks tension. Some cisgender women may dismiss the experiences of trans women, arguing that they continue to hold or have benefitted from male privilege. Conversely, some trans women assert that they never benefitted from male privilege and have faced patriarchal oppression from the get-go.

I wanted to address this and chime in with my own opinions. Whereas I understand the perspective of both sides, I don't think either is correct at their extremes. At large, discussions of these matter highlight the importance of understanding intersectionality as a concept.

• *The Cisgender Experience**: My understanding of this is limited as I am not cisgender, please keep this in mind. However, from what I have heard from cis women, the negative experiences with the patriarchy start early. It is not uncommon for young girls to face heightened visibility and sexualization at a very early age, this can range from uncomfortable interactions with strangers, to outright sexual assault. This is precisely why, unfortunately, it is not uncommon to know someone who was sexually abused at a young age. Aside from heightened sexualization, cisgender girls are raised from a very early age into a society that is both dismissive and critical of women. There is a greater emphasis and policing of how you look and present yourself compared to men. Likewise, once puberty begins, cisgender women have to face periods and any of the social and systemic problems that could be associated with this (period poverty).

• *The Transgender Experience:** Depending on the age of transition, trans women generally grow up with the full expectation they will fulfill their masculinity. Once signs start to show that this will not happen, a trans woman is likely to face widespread ostracization for their feminine traits. This could manifest in the family, social contexts such as in school, or in both settings. Due to this internalized shame that is coded by society very early on, it is likely the trans woman will face a profound internal struggle to assert her own femininity and gender identity. If she overcomes this at a personal level and decides to transition, then a new set of challenges will arise. These include dealing with the persistent level of transphobia of society, being at a higher risk of violence and discrimination, and facing the crippling bouts of gender dysphoria that may arise occasionally.

• *Where Both Experiences Differ**: Most transgender women will never have to face over-sexualization at an early age, nor deal with the systemic and societal problems women at large face until they decide to transition. Likewise, trans women will never have to deal with periods and any of the issues associated with them. Trans women will also never have to deal with access to abortion healthcare or any attempts aimed at legislating birth control or anti-abortion procedures. At the other side of the coin, cisgender women will never have to fight, whether internally, externally, or both, for their gender identity. They will never understand the notions of gender dysphoria, nor have to undergo through the arduous process of transitioning. In terms of healthcare, cisgender women will never have to face crackdowns on access to HRT, or be the direct subject of anti-trans legislation seeking to regulate where we should or shouldn't be at.

• *Where Both Experiences Converge:** Trans and cis women are both subject to the broader oppression of the patriarchy. Both have to deal with the internal and external weight of expectations placed on women. Likewise, both have to deal, to varying degrees, with the discrimination, dismissal, and disrespect women tend to be subjected to disproportionately when compared to men. Likewise, both cis and trans women have to deal with the heightened negative visibility that women at large receive. This means dealing with catcalling, and any other sort of weird behavior from men.

• *What about the Trans Women who haven't transitioned?** Trans women who have yet to transition benefit from male privilege since, for all intends and purposes, society perceives them and thus treats them to be men. This, of course, does not mean everything is perfect. A trans woman may benefit from male privilege if she hasn't transitioned, however, she still will have to deal with a large degree of dysphoria. In essence, whereas cis men benefit from male privilege free of cost, trans women who haven't transitioned have to pay a ***steep price*** for their male privilege. Once a trans woman decides to transition, they rescind their male privilege. Transphobes and all of their associates can call a transitioned trans woman a man, however, they will never treat her as such. Rather, they will treat her as a defective woman, or worse, a non-human freak.

• *Why do I bring this up?** I wanted to voice my concerns to highlight several key points. Firstly, it is important to underscore that womanhood is a broad umbrella social category which can fit and accommodate to many distinct backgrounds. The unique experiences of cis women do not negate the womanhood of trans women, and vice versa. As a trans woman myself, I think it is indispensable that we understand, respect, and let cis women lead discussions that pertain to issues which directly target them. At the inverse, I also expect the same level of respect and understanding from cis women regarding issues that specifically target trans women.

Trans or cis, we are all women. It should not be a competition on who has it worse or who has to overcome the most obstacles. We should work together at building each other up and fighting patriarchal oppression (which is the real enemy) from each of our respective fronts. When the situation calls for collaboration, then let us collaborate. "For each according to her ability, to each according to her need."

Comments

Comment by F_T_L at 29/01/2025 at 23:01 UTC

302 upvotes, 6 direct replies

Post menopausal (cis) women are also greatly affected by poor access to HRT whether through lack of education about their options, misinformation about risks, gate keeping by HCPs or prohibitive costs, which is very alarming seeing as HRT use greatly reduces osteoporosis risk and therefore hip fractures and the usual accompanying deterioration.

Comment by knewleefe at 30/01/2025 at 00:42 UTC

248 upvotes, 6 direct replies

I would note that patriarchal oppression is not simply the sexualisation/oversexualisation of women, though that is the rather obvious tip of the iceberg.

It's the socialisation of women, as women, from birth (where gender has been assigned as female). It is broad, deep and pervasive, and much subtler than overt sexual abuse. How we appear, dress, behave, the way we apologise to those that hurt us, the dreams we're allowed to pursue, bodily autonomy, all of it.

Comment by Difficult-Okra3784 at 29/01/2025 at 21:15 UTC

17 upvotes, 1 direct replies

I skimmed through this mostly read the differ section and then stopped because it became pretty clear you're talking with a lot of misconceptions in mind.

The systemic issues woman face can often delay transitioning, and there are people who will "clock" pre everything trans woman even as children even as children and ostracize them or even target them due to how they interact socially.

Attacks on birth control are attacks on trans healthcare, ease of access to birth control directly correlates to ease of access of feminizing hrt. This goes both ways as the medications used to treat trans woman also treat many issues for cis women and even some cis men and their care will be impaired.

There are very much cis women who have their identity as a woman brought into question.

There are also trans woman who have many of the symptoms of a period despite not bleeding assumedly due to the how hormone cycles work.

-An intersex woman who is uniquely fucked by these matters, but has a horse in making sure my cis and trans sisters aren't put down by misinformed rhetoric.

Comment by GlencoraPalliser at 30/01/2025 at 05:38 UTC

47 upvotes, 1 direct replies

I can only talk about the cis but depressingly cis women also have struggles with presenting feminine. Too tall, too strong, too big bonned, , muscular, small breasts, no curves, etc are all things cis women are supposed to avoid or hide in the altar of the cis het conception of femininity. I have a tall, broad shouldered, big bonned friend who always wears jewelry to signal "feminine" and she would never dream of having short hair or unstyled hair.

Comment by radical_hectic at 30/01/2025 at 03:56 UTC*

6 upvotes, 0 direct replies

This is a great post and I agree w so much of this, and how thoughtful and well-explained it was.

I suppose I might just add two points from my pov as a bi cis woman…it’s also worth noting two of my closest friends are trans. ETA: by which I mean that my perception of our comparative gendered experience is subjective and is probably having an influence on my comment.

One of the things I actually felt kind of guilty for noticing w my closest friend who is a trans woman is that occasionally, minor behaviours and tendencies remind me that she was, at least for some time, treated and encouraged to view herself w the same generosity, forgiveness and confidence that boys are encouraged to. gendered socialisation starts EARLY.

I don’t know what impact constantly experiencing gender dysphoria and figuring out your transness would have on this, and I have no doubt it would vary. But boys and girls are socialised to behave differently, to have different levels of self belief and different kinds of goals for themselves. I’m not saying it’s universal to trans women and I’m sure it would vary massively…but it is a factor, and it often manifests as a net benefit. I think it’s a good trait in all women, but it did strike me a few times that I was surprised by my friend’s behaviour, and then realised it’s because it’s the kind of confidence I’m used to from my guy friends, and it’s incredibly rare in women.

I also think this is why this conversation is so important, and why acknowledging differences can be productive—bc I think this trait is good, I want to integrate it into my own sense of womanhood. I think this is why we are so much stronger united—bc we have so much to learn from each other. I have learnt so much from trans women and queer men in my life and the community at large. If we don’t acknowledge the differences we erode the opportunity to learn from each other.

I’ll also add that even though I appreciate cis women don’t experience something that can be technically described as gender dysphoria, I’d say that again this is an area where maybe instead of drawing definitional lines re this conversation we consider convergences in experience (aka it is important that this definition applies to trans ppl bc it has specific psychological meaning, but in terms of discussing commonalities and distinctions, we can maybe consider how hypothetically expanding the term might help foster understanding). Gender dysphoria and euphoria can occur regardless of where someone is at in their transition, right? Generally the further along in their transition someone is, the less dysphoria but it can still get triggered by being misgendered or a particular behaviour/activity etc., regardless of your body parts, hormones etc. Similarly someone v early in their transition might experience gender euphoria despite not “passing”.

Societal expectations of womanhood are incredibly strict and demanding so it’s very easy to fall short and feel “less than women”. I would say the difference is this is less a feeling of being a different gender and more a feeling of being dehumanised. For eg I struggle w my over large sagging breasts after weight loss. I believe reduction surgery for them would be “gender affirming care” as much as any top surgery, bc while it’s physically uncomfortable, that discomfort is also psychic—it combines w and exacerbates my hatred of them. Lots of women after giving birth and breastfeeding etc talk about feeling like a cow or an animal. Obstetric violence and abuse is disturbingly common in hospitals and many women express feeling dehumanised. It’s not the same thing, but I’d consider how various people can experience a comparable or connected sense of dysphoria in a gendered context. A butch cis lesbian might feel “dysphoric” if she’s forced to wear something super femme, but it’s not because she doesn’t look or feel like a woman—it’s bc she doesn’t feel like her version of a woman. Enbys can also experience gender euphoria/dysphoria, so that complicates the idea a little I think. I also think cis women who find joy in feminine things and being perceived as feminine…it can be a comparable something-like-euphoria in this for cis women, bc we are so socialised to be the ideal woman. It’s like a relief you’re fulfilling your purpose. gender euphoria for cis women more comes when you find joy in femininity beyond this

I’d also say that for me rn the issue isn’t “access to abortion”…it’s that the extreme legislation in the US (which is sparking similar pushes in other countries) is purposefully and dangerously broad to the point where hospitals will not treat miscarrying pregnant people, or people w other life threatening pregnancy complications bc these laws fail to distinguish bw miscarriage and abortion…bc medically, they are identical. It’s not just about access anymore. If you criminalise abortion, you criminalise miscarriage. You criminalise treatment for a whole lot of reproductive health issues, tbh—someone w endo or PCOS might come in w “miscarriage symptoms” and be turned away and die from a popped cyst etc. They already tried to send a woman to prison for manslaughter and defacing a corpse for a miscarriage. In South Carolina they are now very possibly bringing in the DEATH PENALTY for abortions. This is the SAME as death penalty for miscarriage

Like, yes, I don’t have to worry about HRT…until I go through menopause and I do. I do have to worry about getting raped and then dying in a hospital waiting room if I’m in the wrong state. I still have to fight to get taken seriously and diagnosed w physical, mental and reproductive health issues (much like trans people, particularly women). I’m in outright agony twice a month and have been on a wait list just to get endo diagnosed for over 18 months.

ALL women are largely neglected and dismissed by the medical institution. In this context I feel it’s a little pointless to pick and choose minor benefits and disadvantages bc again, we’re stronger united, a rising tide lifts all boats and regardless of hormone treatments, our bodies are heavily regulated and legislated. The state of trans healthcare absolutely SUCKS I am not denying that. But idk, I just think in THIS ECONOMY if we’re looking at the healthcare system a comparison game just becomes oppression olympics bc there are so many complex factors.

In general I believe the recent right-wing push to have transphobia increasingly impact cis women (Iman Khalif, that Florida law where coaches can “inspect” elementary school girl’s genitals to “confirm” their sex for sports teams) is another effort to further divide, especially along w increasing biological oppression through regression of reproductive rights. If cis women are too busy fighting to not get the electric chair for having a miscarriage, we have less time to advocate for trans women. If trans women are too busy trying to get access to basic gender-affirming care, legal recognition and deal w this ridiculous misinformation campaign and all the discrimination that comes from that…we fail to help each other. And then we become more frustrated at the lack of help and mired in creating a taxonomy of hardship. Who cares? The enemy is the same. The goal is the same.

Comment by StrongPixie at 29/01/2025 at 21:22 UTC

152 upvotes, 3 direct replies

I would say that there is, tragically, far more convergence when it comes to childhood sexual abuse between cisgender and transgender women than might seem obvious. Indeed, according to some studies, trans women have a higher prevalence of CSA than cis women. The prevalence is really alarming, to be honest.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10311960/

The experiences of CSA will be different in various ways, but there is something going on here that, as awful as it is, brings cis and trans women together rather than separates us.

Comment by QueenOfTheDance at 30/01/2025 at 11:51 UTC*

23 upvotes, 1 direct replies

Going to strongly disagree with your assessment of what transgender women face growing up, as I think you're massively overgeneralizing particularly this part:

Trans women who have yet to transition benefit from male privilege since, for all intends and purposes, society perceives them and thus treats them to be men.

Most transgender women will never have to face over-sexualization at an early age, nor deal with the systemic and societal problems women at large face until they decide to transition.

The first time I was catcalled was when I was 14 and walking down the hill from school. It didn't matter whether I knew I was a girl or not, I looked feminine, and so they harassed me.

When I was in school there was rumors about whether I was giving other students blowjobs. One phrase that I can particularly remember was *"QueenOfTheDance is so girly, it wouldn't even be gay".*

Sometimes when I was a child older men would come up to me, and ask me something while leering at me, and I'd have that awful sensation of my skin crawling but also feeling the obligation to help them, because I didn't want to make a fuss.

In pretty much all of the hobbies I had, I was the only AMAB person, and combined with my androgyny/feminine appearance, 99% of the time I was assumed to be a girl, and treated as such and given the same expectations.

When I got old enough to go to parties, men would often do that thing where they touch the small of your back "accidentally", or "accidentally" put their hands on your hips.

One particular moment in college stands out - I was sitting at a table with friends, and one of the male ones asked *"Why do so many men come to our table to talk to QueenOfTheDance and then kind of wander off?"* and one of my female friends responded "*Because they think she's a girl, stupid. They're coming up to hit on her and then getting confused."*

All of these events happened before I transitioned, and before I even knew transgender people existed.

Or to put it another way - society looked at me and went "*There's no fucking way that's a boy, that's very clearly a girl"* and then proceeded to treat me as such.

My experiences certainly are not universal, but they're not unique either.

I won't claim they're identical to a cis women's experience either, but given the range of what that covers (i.e. a cis women who grows up in Britain is going to have a very different experience to one growing up in Saudi Arabia) the phrase "close enough" springs to mind.

( Also reading this I know this kind of makes my childhood sound kind of awful, but it was actually pretty good. Being basically considered to be a girl in many social situations did kind of suck, but it also meant I developed a lot of really strong friendships with the women I grew up with that I value a lot. )

Comment by [deleted] at 30/01/2025 at 17:25 UTC*

9 upvotes, 1 direct replies

[deleted]

Comment by Leylolurking at 30/01/2025 at 07:08 UTC

5 upvotes, 0 direct replies

I'm sorry this thread is such a mess. I don't get what's so hard to understand about "Trans and cis women both have unique difficulties in navigating patriarchy, sometimes they overlap and sometimes they are different" but people really seem to be having trouble with it on both sides.

Comment by raginghappy at 29/01/2025 at 22:20 UTC

145 upvotes, 6 direct replies

I'm just going to say that the idea that cis women don't deal with gender identity and/or transitioning is utter bs. Cis women go through the arduous process of transitioning at puberty. The transition from girl to woman can be a huge adjustment that mentally can take years to get used to. Also femininity is a spectrum, but woe be to the woman who isn’t feminine enough. Such women are likely to face widespread ostracization and abuse. Due to the internalized shame that is coded by society very early on, it is likely such women will face profound internal struggles to assert their own type of femininity and gender identity.

And cis women do fight, all the time, whether internally, externally, or both, for their gender identity. Cis gender women are constantly fighting for the right to be women in a man’s world. Their health concerns are very often dismissed, and only recently have even started to make it into widespread medical and safety testing. And you’re delusional if you think cis women aren’t subjects of anti-women legislation. Take a look around the world, at countries where women aren’t even allowed to speak in public - by law. Or aren’t allowed to go to school - by law. Or where domestic violence isn’t a crime. Or where spousal rape doesn’t exist. Never mind the legislative attacks on women’s reproductive freedom going on globally. And HRT? Try getting that for menopause - which is a natural process, so why fight it….

You come with your unique perspective. But from a position of where you’re used to being heard. But now you’re just one of many unheard people. Welcome to being a woman

Comment by SarahNeedsBottomSurg at 29/01/2025 at 22:41 UTC

8 upvotes, 0 direct replies

There's a lot here, and I honestly can't respond to even most of it. Current events have kinda reduced my capacity for in-depth discussion with strangers like that - sorry.

I think your heart is in the right place, but your analysis here is a bit... simplistic? Primarily around concepts like privilege and oppression and socialization. These things aren't on / off binaries, they exist in degrees, and are unevenly applied to individuals depending on time and place.

I feel like you would really enjoy reading some transfeminist literature, if you haven't already? Julia Serano wrote a piece a few years back titled "Why are AMAB trans people denied the closet?", which I think intersects with some of your thoughts on male privilege and socialization.

And Talia Bhatt recently wrote two excellent essays, titled "The Third Sex" and "Degendering and Regendering".

I can also highly recommend basically anything by Jules Gill-Peterson.

Comment by LawGroundbreaking221 at 30/01/2025 at 02:22 UTC*

6 upvotes, 1 direct replies

I'm a trans woman. My passport might be invalidated soon. I have to leave the country.

I've been trying to find support in this sub but I haven't found anything.

I'm not sure why this sub is turning into this but I will just leave it too.

Comment by stevepls at 29/01/2025 at 22:03 UTC

67 upvotes, 3 direct replies

idk, i think you're missing a few things:

• trans women's reproductive ability is also controlled. access to transition usually requires some form of sterilization.
• the requirements to perform an insane level of heterosexual femininity in order to access transition is very straightforwardly misogyny.
• people clock shit about you before you clock yourself. this can lead to bullying, but also things like CSA. also, CSA isn't solely a misogyny problem, it's also a "this society hates kids problem" but i digress.
• my friends who are trans women are victims of misogyny basically as soon as they're visibly women. you only talked about transphobia and dysphoria. my friend gets interrupted and talked over in a STEM job as much as i do. and before that, trans women are still targeted for sexual harassment by men because of their perceived gender non-conformity. the harassment is there to police the borders of "manhood" and "womanhood" which is why men will sexually harass other men for being short or whatever. it's still misogyny though.
• fetishists. either in the form of women viewing them as diet women they can experiment with (but never date or care for in a real capacity) or in the form of chasers/etc who view a trans woman transitioning as like, degrading and threatening to their own masculinity (and therefore is an acceptable target of violence). trans women are largely seen as disposable when compared to cis women, so misogynistic violence against them is acceptable.

overall your post doesn't seem to contend with the actual misogyny that trans women experience.

Comment by eabred at 30/01/2025 at 02:53 UTC

19 upvotes, 0 direct replies

At the moment, trans women are facing massive opposition to having their womanhood accepted. Any talk of differences is being weaponised by the usual suspects.

So yes, there are differences between trans and cis women, just as there are differences between old and young women, rich and poor women, black and white women, women with and without disabilities etc. It's just a question of when and where you stress the differences, the empathy you apply and the respect you pay.

Comment by WeeabooHunter69 at 30/01/2025 at 06:32 UTC

20 upvotes, 1 direct replies

Most of the comments here are good but the amount of transmisogyny is disappointing to see :/

Comment by Setykesykaa at 29/01/2025 at 22:18 UTC

2 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Why can’t people just group up together to fight patriarchy instead of competing who suffers more. This phenomenon also happens between trans and intersex community while MAGA heads just want both of them dead.

Comment by Original_Claim1764 at 31/01/2025 at 04:48 UTC

2 upvotes, 0 direct replies

I would like to gently point out that perceivably queer children are more likely to be abused than their cishet appearing siblings

Comment by xTheShadyLadyx at 30/01/2025 at 13:23 UTC*

5 upvotes, 1 direct replies

This may be controversial (due to this being a women's space), but can this discussion really be had without discussing trans men and their experiences?

Trans men are men, but at some point, weren't they expected to live their lives as girls and women? Wouldn't they experience some version/facet of the very same issues cis and trans women face? Do cisgender men recognize them as men in men's spaces, or do they treat them as "lesser"? Imho trans men are excluded from many conversations, but I'm not sure that they should be.

ETA: Is it possible we exclude trans men because we see trans men as one of *them* (men) which, while validating their identity, kind of invalidates their experience as an AFAB person? Where does that put them? 👀

Comment by antiquatedlady at 29/01/2025 at 22:56 UTC

8 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Hi, OP. I have no criticisms. Eat well, hydrate, have fun and get some sleep. ❤️

Comment by [deleted] at 30/01/2025 at 09:57 UTC

7 upvotes, 1 direct replies

[removed]

Comment by Iron_willed_fuck-up at 29/01/2025 at 22:29 UTC

9 upvotes, 2 direct replies

I think it’s important to note that how much male privilege you benefit pre transition from varies from person to person. Some folks are VERY visibly queer from a young and are not able to hide that fact and see very little of the same societal privilege as their cis white male peers do. They still don’t get the same experience as cis women do as children but honestly I would say let’s not make this a competition as to who is most oppressed like you mentioned. There are many different factors beyond gender identity.

For those of us who CAN be effectively hide our queerness/transness and choose to do so, we do potentially obtain a decent amount of privilege but as you said, it’s a STEEP price. I’m 34 and started to transition about 10 months ago. Prior to that by all appearances I was a handsome, muscly white man. I grew up poor but mitigated that with a decent education and have a decent paying and interesting job. You couldn’t pay me any amount of money to detransition. For all intents and purposes, I should have been happy. I was making the most money I ever had before and was financially stable. I had plenty of hobbies, friends, and strong community support. I had no shortage of sexual partners (women, men, or anyone who fell somewhere in between). I liked where I’m living as well and was well regarded at my job with improving career prospects.

I was fucking miserable though. Despite all that when the day would end and I’d be sitting alone in my thoughts at night, I would inevitably slip into thoughts of how I hated myself despite trying to convince myself I should be happy based on the above. I’m far enough along in my transition to have started to experience the misogyny and sexualization of femininity in our society and it really sucks. I can only imagine how horrifying that is starting as a child for cis women. It still isn’t any where near as horrible as the dysphoria was though, even when coupled with white, male privilege.

I think the lack of something overtly tangible to illustrate our experience is what makes trans rights a much harder fight than same sex rights are. People can understand easily understand not being able to marry the person you love and all the legal ramifications that results in.

I still don’t quite know how to easily convey the pain of dysphoria though. Explaining that it is this long term traumatic experience that results in horrible dissociative/anxiety/depressive symptoms is the best I’ve managed but that also requires the person listening to have some sort of understanding of or with complex trauma and the trauma model of mental health. It’s also very academic and still doesn’t quite convey the hollow empty misery that dysphoria turns your life into no matter what try to combat it (other than transition obviously). I’ve had my fair share of traumatic experiences- abuse as a child, death of a parent and friends, abusive relationships, cancer and other serious medical problems. Nothing has ever made me crash and burn as hard as the dysphoria finally did nearly a year ago despite all attempts to outrun it. Many think we transition in this sense of making this brave choice of being ourselves when I think for most of us it is more often a final desperate act to escape this pain that plagued us most of our lives and finally became to heavy to bare any longer.

My go to these days is often to tell people to listen to this Against Me! song Laura Jane Grace put out 7 years prior to coming out and transitioning. That entire album is basically about closeted dysphoria but this song in particular really sums it up. Listen and imagine that is what your life has been like for about 25 years and will continue to be for another 7 years: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=639C0d2z9vM&pp=ygUpYWdhaW5zdCBtZSBzZWFyY2hpbmcgZm9yIGEgZm9ybWVyIGNsYXJpdHk%3D

Comment by SalamanderMorrison at 30/01/2025 at 00:32 UTC

4 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Great post, OP! I see you getting a lot of pushback, but I think this was extremely thoughtful and empathetic towards all women. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Comment by boishan at 30/01/2025 at 03:05 UTC

4 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Yes. While our struggles aren’t always the same, they are united. Equality cannot be selectively applied and therefore the fight for it must be united in empathy.

Comment by TerribleThing013 at 30/01/2025 at 02:12 UTC

2 upvotes, 0 direct replies

While I appreciate what you're trying to do here (and hearing your experience as a trans woman), as a cis woman, I feel that your description of “the cisgender experience” is oversimplified and limited. The sexism that cis girls experience goes far beyond early sexualization and the emphasis on appearance. From my own experience (growing up in a socially liberal environment in the late 90s), sexism permeated nearly every facet of life.

It was reflected in expectations about our academic interests—science was for boys, while girls were allowed to pursue careers like nursing, not medicine. It showed up in how we were taught to resolve conflict- “boys will be boys” and “he’s hurting you because he likes you.” Even our preferences were limited: “You can't have that; blue is for boys.” Our potential futures were constrained by these gendered assumptions. Cis girls are told their entire purpose in life and their bodies are for others and not for ourselves, and that is an extremely damaging mentality.

Personally, my interest in STEM and a career in science was constantly discouraged by both teachers and elderly family members, as it was seen as “inappropriate” for a woman. Despite these negative experiences I’ve always been incredibly grateful to be born where I was, as there are whole regions of the world where cisgender girls are not provided with any rights or educational opportunities at all. The oppression of cis women on the global stage is terrifying and often codified into law, not simply a result of culture as it currently is in America.

Another point: Many cis girls (myself included) experience intense body dysphoria when we develop during puberty, especially if it happens early. This goes beyond simply feeling uncomfortable with increased sexualization; it’s a more complex and painful experience. While I’m neither trans nor dysphoric now, I vividly remember how deeply distressing that period was.

Comment by Ramzaki at 30/01/2025 at 09:22 UTC*

0 upvotes, 0 direct replies

The differences and convergences in our experiences is quite an interesting subject!

If anyone cares about mine, I'm 34yo, began HRT a year ago, still "boymoding"... and I already have experienced a little bit misogyny...

A drunk guy told me the other day that being with my girlfriend is a sin, that I should be with a man and give him children because "God created me for that", and even grabbed my arm to impede me from hugging my girlfriend. Like, what the hell... And I couldn't but smile and act submissive like "Sure, of course sir, that's very nice 😅 (when will he go away... 😰)" and it had to be my lover who scared him off... (I love her so much!).

Well, I guess male privilege, even though conditioned to appearing manly and dealing with the dysphoria, was kinda nice while it lasted. Though I'd rather my personhood and identity be recognized than having a conditioned privilege, but wow, so that's what cis women experienced for their entire youthhood and beyond... One time is an anecdote, but an entire life... oh dear... I guess it's a privilege I didn't get to experience that beyond an anecdote. On the other hand, I experienced a lot of bullying in school and highschool for being too "sensitive" and "effeminate", so I can't feel totally privileged...

However, it's kinda funny (in a sad way) how an homophobic-sexist drunk man recognized me as a woman before my workmates, who are nice people and all yet still treat as a "he", even though they know I'm trans and prefer being treated as a "she". Like, it seems I'm starting to get pieces of misogyny (woohoo...), yet I'm not getting the recognition of my identity... It's like, they don't really recognize me as "one of the guys" anymore, but definitely not as "one of the girls" either. Like I'm in some kind of limbo... It feels lonely, as if they were talking to a person that no longer exists, instead of talking to me directly.

Oh, sorry for the rant. I guess I should to change to another workplace and start anew 🙃