-39 upvotes, 2 direct replies (showing 2)
View submission: Trans Women, Male Privilege, and the Intersectionality of Patriarchal Oppression
Have you considered that lumping us simply into womanhood as a whole can feel like you’re erasing issues specific to trans women? Similar to how some white people dismiss racism by saying something akin to “we’re all people with problems” or “all lives matter”?
In addition to misogyny, we do regularly experience transphobia and transmisogyny specifically that cisgender women rarely if ever experience themselves. Often from cisgender women as well. I’ll be honest, the population I find myself receiving the most transphobia from is usually older cishet, white women.
Please keep in mind that across the board trans people (and this includes trans men, trans women don’t have a monopoly on trans issues) have worse statistical outcomes than cisgender people. Adult trans people report attempting suicide at a rate of 41%. For the cisgender population that drops to 1%. In addition to that we have worse incidence of mental and physical health as well as worse access to proper mental and physical healthcare. We have higher incidences of violence, domestic abuse, SA, homelessness, joblessness, discrimination, etc. This only gets worse if you are at an intersection of being trans AND another marginalized community with black trans women fairing the worst. It’s the height of foolishness to dismiss our issues as just a subset of women’s issues and not something in their own right.
Comment by raginghappy at 30/01/2025 at 01:00 UTC
36 upvotes, 2 direct replies
No one should be persecuted for their gender. And people causing others to suffer for it are disgraceful. Trans women (and trans men) face very serious and very dangerous prejudice - specific to them being trans. I know that. It is horrible. And there seems to be such unfounded and inexplicable fear about trans people. I don't get it. Not trying to erase or diminish, but this post rubbed me the wrong way because it has such glaring assumptions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Comment by radical_hectic at 30/01/2025 at 08:30 UTC
9 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I don’t disagree w any of the facts expressed here re statistical incidence.
But I’d point out that a lot of these egs are actually also pointing to commonalities bw cis and trans women. All of that evidence you relied on compares either trans women or all trans people and all cis people. But if we look at a lot of those outcomes re cis women versus trans women, it’s not so disparate.
For eg according to Wikipedia 271 murders of trans people between 2008 and 2020. Obviously this number is inherently limited due to underreporting, methodological bias and other factors…a quick google shows that over 2,000 women were murdered by male single offenders alone in 2020 in the US—I couldn’t get clarity on whether this was trans inclusive, but regardless it’s ALSO a limited number due to bias, underreporting etc. This is also a hate crime and gendered violence, but we don’t acknowledge or accept it.
Point is, this isn’t a good area for a comparison game, bc these kinds of numbers are incredibly hard to meaningfully compare. It is hard to figure out a comparative percentage due to the limited nature of the research and its methodologies.
Most of what you expressed as a level of deficit exclusive to trans people are ALSO at comparable levels for cis women, but not in easily researchable/provable ways, and I would encourage you to think about how socialised we all are to accept and not emphasise, highlight or research these phenomena in cis women, but ALSO how the intersectionalities you highlight ALSO apply to cis women.
Sure, I’m cis so my suicide rate is 1%…except I’m a woman w long untreated/undiagnosed ADHD bc the medical establishment refuses women diagnosis and treatment…this means my suicide rate is much higher than 1%, not bc of my ADHD, but bc of the INTERSECTION of my womanhood and my ADHD. Add my other intersections re race, sexuality etc.
Comparing these factors on a purely statistical basis is deeply limited, especially when you are attempting to use it to deny that cis women at large are significantly less likely to experience these outcomes…while relying on research about all cis people, although these factors are known to disproportionately impact cis women compared to cis men. Sort of like if I said trans men can’t deal w any of this stuff bc men are less likely to—I’m erasing a fundamental difference bc men and trans men and their outcomes and challenges, just like here you’re erasing the fundamental difference bw cis men and women and lumping in the rates of negative outcomes of oppression for women with the rates of those outcomes for the oppressors that enact them on the rest of us.
Regardless, this commenter was simply pointing out blind spots/exclusions and therefore commonalities that the post dismissed. You have brought this negative comparative energy to a discussion that was meant to foster connection. Again, intersectionality isn’t designed to be used to help crown you personally as the winner of the oppression olympics. It’s designed to help us identify the tools of the oppressor and how we face those together. It says a lot that you are able to acknowledge how intersections such as these worsen outcomes for trans people, while refusing to acknowledge even the intersection bw “cis” and “woman”.