146 upvotes, 6 direct replies (showing 6)
View submission: Trans Women, Male Privilege, and the Intersectionality of Patriarchal Oppression
I'm just going to say that the idea that cis women don't deal with gender identity and/or transitioning is utter bs. Cis women go through the arduous process of transitioning at puberty. The transition from girl to woman can be a huge adjustment that mentally can take years to get used to. Also femininity is a spectrum, but woe be to the woman who isn’t feminine enough. Such women are likely to face widespread ostracization and abuse. Due to the internalized shame that is coded by society very early on, it is likely such women will face profound internal struggles to assert their own type of femininity and gender identity.
And cis women do fight, all the time, whether internally, externally, or both, for their gender identity. Cis gender women are constantly fighting for the right to be women in a man’s world. Their health concerns are very often dismissed, and only recently have even started to make it into widespread medical and safety testing. And you’re delusional if you think cis women aren’t subjects of anti-women legislation. Take a look around the world, at countries where women aren’t even allowed to speak in public - by law. Or aren’t allowed to go to school - by law. Or where domestic violence isn’t a crime. Or where spousal rape doesn’t exist. Never mind the legislative attacks on women’s reproductive freedom going on globally. And HRT? Try getting that for menopause - which is a natural process, so why fight it….
You come with your unique perspective. But from a position of where you’re used to being heard. But now you’re just one of many unheard people. Welcome to being a woman
Comment by imbi-dabadeedabadie at 30/01/2025 at 16:08 UTC*
16 upvotes, 1 direct replies
The comparison of gender transition to the process of puberty is insanely minimizing to the difficulties posed by transition. don't get me wrong, i know puberty isn't an easy process for anyone, but it isn't the same as undergoing a process that involves deliberately working against societal pressure to perform as an assigned gender under penalty of social ostracization and abandonment. I'll absolutely recognize that dysphoria of another kind is likely faced by cis women undergoing puberty, but its absolutely not the same thing as "transition". Using the term "transition" feels incredibly insulting and dismissive.
Even for cis women who experience a lack of support throughout their puberty, i doubt they experience the fear that many trans women have when transitioning. Did you ever hug your mother for an extra long period of time and write down the last couple sentences she shared with you, just in case she decided to never speak to you ever again because you were going through puberty? Did you ever have to delay your puberty for years because you had to wait until you weren't financially dependent on anyone else, just in case your parents decided to disown you for going through puberty, and force you to be a homeless teenager, like many young trans women (and trans men) experience?
Obviously all kinds of people struggle with their gender not aligning exactly with the way people want it to, but the only time cis women are usually automatically assumed to be sex predators and pedophiles based on gender expression is when transvestigators mistake them for trans women. We have to fear simple actions everyone else takes for granted, because of how predatory our society views us. You wanna talk about internalized shame? how about feeling fear every time you interact with a child in public, or even when a child just waves at you and you want to wave back? I work in a public facing job in a library, and i just want to be a normal librarian who is helpful and kind to kids, but every time i interact with one I'm terrified someone will accuse me of grooming them or trying to indoctrinate them. I'm terrified to use public restrooms because of the internalized shame that, since i have a penis, society views me inherently as someone who could only possibly want to go into a bathroom for sexual reasons.
Cis women's health is underfunded and needs more attention, but trans healthcare hasn't had legitimate studies in decades. Doctors still make prescriptions based on guidelines for medications that don't even exist anymore, because the last time guidelines were updated or studies done on the safety of medications for us is legitimately 30 years ago. I do think that both cis and trans women are currently facing a torrent of legislation against us in the United States. I wanna point out that pretty much every law you mentioned that countries have (i.e. women not being allowed to do to school or speak in public) are laws that are present in countries that would literally murder us. It's not like we have power in those places, we don't have it better than you because we can just pretend to be men, the implicit idea in that being that we can just "be men instead of transitioning." being trans isn't a choice.
before you start with that shit about assuming I'm used to being heard, i absolutely am not. throughout my entire life I've been shamed into silence, told to talk less and that nobody wants to hear my options. often by my own mother. I've been told so often that my struggles aren't important by comparison to other people, and i struggle so hard to even voice them to my own boyfriend because of my internalized sense of worthlessness. Don't fucking tell us that we're just "used to being heard". You don't know our experience.
Edit: Im sorry for how hostile I probably seemed during all of this. The past few weeks have been very difficult. Before like 3 years ago, I had just totally given up on life and existence. But transitioning was like finally re-awakening from a coma nightmare thats been going on for 15 years. I finally got to remember what it was like to genuinely smile, to look outside and love how beautiful the world is, even on a dreary, rainy day. But now it feels like its all collapsing, and the world wants to rip my happiness away, and tear my soul out of my body. Im so scared of the next 4 years, not just of dying, but of losing my identity again. I think I'd rather die than be forced to detransition. I think rage is the only thing propelling me forward right now, and im sorry that spilled over to this interaction with you. I didnt mean to try to dismiss or minimize any of the problems cis women face, but it feels like even the left is abandoning trans women now, and nobody on earth even cares if we die.
Comment by KonoBoke at 30/01/2025 at 16:13 UTC
15 upvotes, 1 direct replies
honestly i wouldve rather just been called a slur than reading this
Comment by rumade at 30/01/2025 at 09:24 UTC
13 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Plus many women experience motherhood; another transition that I've found just as hard as puberty. It's a complete remaking of my identity and physical body, in sacrifice of another person. You spend your earlier life being told you're supposed to be this sexual being, and then expected to do a total 180 (while also remaining sexually attractive for your male partner if you have one).
Comment by FeelGuiltThrowaway94 at 29/01/2025 at 22:56 UTC*
-23 upvotes, 3 direct replies
As a trans woman, I want to thank you for sharing your perspective and also challenge you a bit:
I understand that cis women face challenges related to femininity, reproductive access, patriarchal oppression, and bodily autonomy and you set this out really well. My intention isn't to downplay or dismiss that at all.
But I wanted to mention that the process of transitioning isn’t just a 'shift' from one gender to another - it's been a complex, painful, very costly journey that has involved navigating societal and family rejection, medical hurdles, and years of internal struggle leading up to it. And that's not even getting into how men interact with me and how dramatically cruel they become as soon as they realise they're talking to a trans woman.
Your last comment 'Welcome to being a woman' feels really dismissive of those struggles.
Transitioning is not about just 'joining' womanhood; it’s about asserting a lifelong identity and facing unique challenges that cis women can't understand. I hope you can understand that while all women face oppression, the challenges trans women face deserve recognition too.
Edit: I feel the downvotes speak for themselves, this is what happens when a trans woman speaks
Comment by stevepls at 29/01/2025 at 23:31 UTC
-25 upvotes, 1 direct replies
"you come with your unique perspective, but from a position of where you're used to being heard" uh. yikes.
this specific line of argument reminds me of studies on self esteem that compared black girls and white girls, and concluded that because black girls were louder they must have had better mental health/self esteem. that's obviously untrue.
brain fried so I'm having a hard time articulating why your statement seems similar, but it comes off as a post-hoc justification for a measurement error. like there's an implicit assumption that trans girlhoods are really just boyhoods (with the attendant "expectation" of being heard). i don't think that's necessarily accurate.
Comment by SuperPrussia at 29/01/2025 at 23:01 UTC
-22 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I will partially disagree with you here. Whereas the process of "becoming" a woman through puberty is arduous, it is very unlikely you will be stripped of your gender when compared to a trans woman. From my perspective, it appears you are speaking more of the struggles of conforming to gender norms. This affects cis and trans women alike.
Regarding laws, I am obviously aware of the incredibly draconian laws that can exist toward women in some countries. The middle east, for instance, is extremely repressive toward women. Please note I was approaching this from a Western perspective.
The concerns you bring are all valid. I don't think my comment dismissed any of them.