70 upvotes, 15 direct replies (showing 15)
View submission: Do non-binary identities reenforce gender stereotypes?
I’ve had this thought as well, like if gender stereotypes are a social construct, then can’t being a man or a woman be whatever you want it to be? Because as I understand it, being non binary doesn’t have to do with your physical sex but with your gender. Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong.
Edit: spelling
Comment by TheThunderTrain at 12/01/2025 at 19:30 UTC
40 upvotes, 10 direct replies
You aren't wrong. If I, as a man, decide to wear a dress, wearing a dress is now a thing men do.
Look into John Money, the founder of gender theory.
Comment by neverendingplush93 at 13/01/2025 at 07:38 UTC
12 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Isn't being a man or woman rooted in biological function and not a concept of masculine female stereotypes. I mean maybe im wrong. But at the same time the whole point of language is to provide a consistent basis in which we understand each other. By making this subjective according to the non binary nonsense what's the point of even communicating anyone that you are in fact non binary if no one can affirm that two genders even exist in the first place. Continuing this logic if no one can define what a man or woman is. Then why identifying as non binary even necessary .
Comment by Old_Squash5250 at 12/01/2025 at 20:39 UTC
10 upvotes, 3 direct replies
The fact that gender is a social construct doesn't mean that it's up to each individual to decide what it is to be a man or woman (for example). The dollar is a social construct, but it's not up to me what it is for something to be a dollar.
Comment by Salty_Map_9085 at 14/01/2025 at 18:24 UTC
6 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Gender is a *social* construct. This means a persons gender is defined extrinsically, not intrinsically. Being a man or a woman cannot be whatever you want it to be because man and woman are categories defined by society, not just yourself. Saying you are nonbinary means that you want people to treat you as neither a man nor a woman, just like saying you’re a trans man, for instance, means that you want people to treat you as a man.
Comment by Few_Conversation1296 at 14/01/2025 at 11:07 UTC
2 upvotes, 2 direct replies
In the same way that you can declare yourself a King. Yes. But the elephant in the room that often remains unaddressed when these subjects come up is that in order to be a King in a meaningful way, other people would have to agree that you are in fact a King.
Saying X is a social construct is basically meaningless. It's certainly not a reason to replace one social construct with another.
Comment by imperfect9119 at 13/01/2025 at 12:32 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
being a man or woman can be whatever you want it to be ........as long as you accept the consequences for flouting societal rules
most people do not want to flout societal rules and be ostracized, there is myriad of consequences to doing so.
The issue is if society stays the same, can you become a Tech CEO making $200 k a year, paint your nails, wear lipstick and a flowery pink shirt as a man, ask to be addressed as Z and still be respected and not laughed at?
Most people want to maximize their place in society, minimize consequences AND live authentically
It's just hilarious because change takes time, so the people leading the charge for Trans, Non binary, Asexuality are gonna feel the burn and the consequences of being different, it is just how things go, some people understand this but others will live differently and cry loudly when society brings the hammer down.
Comment by TankieErik at 12/01/2025 at 20:44 UTC
1 upvotes, 2 direct replies
A lot of people have an inherent sense of what body parts and hormones they feel right with
Comment by ButterRolla at 14/01/2025 at 16:04 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Literally everything we know can be thought of as a social construct and therefore arguably not real. But if we think of everything like that, everything would be meaningless. Like, name one thing that isn't a social construct.
The clever part is that people can refer to things they don't want to be real as social constructs but not other things. It's just cherry-picking and logic tricks.
Comment by ValerianaOfTheNight at 14/01/2025 at 16:16 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Me, and many of the nonbinary people I’ve met, do want atypical sex characteristics though. r/salmacian for example
Comment by FissureOfLight at 15/01/2025 at 01:37 UTC
1 upvotes, 2 direct replies
You’re right. If nobody saw any behaviors as related to one’s sex, people on the nonbinary spectrum would just be people expressing themselves how they wanted. Very few people who didn’t have physical gender dysphoria would feel a need for any distinction in that way.
But that isn’t the world we live in. If you are assigned male at birth, want to wear a dress sometimes, and enjoy several stereotypically feminine hobbies, you are going to be constantly asked why. So someone in that situation is going to have to come up with an answer for why. So they can explain who they are to people asking why they are different.
If nobody thought that was different and nobody bothered them about it or asked them why, there wouldn’t be a need for most gender identity labels. The concept that gender is separate from sex only matters in a world where people correlate behaviors to a persons sex.
Sadly, I sincerely doubt we will ever get to that point.
Comment by Qoat18 at 15/01/2025 at 07:17 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
It doesnt have to, plenty of nonbinary people dont really change anything about themselves, and plenty of gender nonconforming people are cis
Comment by SpinnyKnifeEnjoyer at 15/01/2025 at 13:37 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Bingooooo. Which is exactly why all this gender bullshit is ridiculous and hypocritical. Those who advocate against labels and pushing people into boxes just end up doing the exact same thing. It's just different labels and different boxes. It's so fucking dumb.
Comment by SweatyNomad at 15/01/2025 at 15:14 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Your first sentence nails it. I've lived both in different European countries as well as in the US and even in supposedly liberal places like LA or NYC there are much more tight expectations around what is the norm of being a man or woman.
People just comply without really being aware they are making choices.
Comment by sleeper_shark at 15/01/2025 at 15:37 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Before I answer, I don’t mean to offend anyone. But I will try anyways.
In my (cisgender male) opinion there’s the social / cultural aspect of it and then there’s the physical aspect of it. Like for example, I am a male who is very comfortable being a male. I have some stereotypically masculine aspects but also i have some aspects that have been traditionally considered more linked to women - I like to cook, I clean the house, many of my friends are female, I enjoy a spa day, I use pink a lot in my decor, etc.
But while those are traditionally feminine things, they don’t make me “feel feminine.” I am still 100% male, I do not feel female in the slightest even if I am happy doing things that are not seen as stereotypically masculine. It’s not even really the fact that I have a male body that makes me feel male, I am just male… that’s all there is to it really.
Now if I woke up one day and I saw a woman in the mirror, I would freak out and flip my shit. I would experience significant discomfort not because I need to conform to the gender roles of a woman, but rather because now I am still a man in my head but I am in a woman’s body. It is not who I am.
This is the effect I imagine people who are born with gender dysphoria feel every day. Like I’m sure we can make jokes that we might enjoy trying out not being our own sex, but the reality of having to deal with it all the time sounds like hell.
Comment by The-Jolly-Llama at 15/01/2025 at 15:41 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Masculinity is what you make it!
I have a pin with this slogan on it, and I live by it. IMO, not enough men and women are willing to consider that you don’t have to be nonbinary to step outside gender norms when you want to.
I consider myself a man, because I fit mostly with the presentation and social roles typically associated with men. ANDDDDD I love to paint my nails 💅, would love to make masculine skirts a thing (haven’t gone for it yet because it wouldn’t be worth it - job), and I’m comfortable crying in front of people and showing my emotions.
I’m married with two kids, long beard, masc voice, honestly mostly traditional in my presentation. I’m just comfortable with the idea that nothing REQUIRES me to do things that are “for men”, and nothing PROHIBITS me from doing things that are “for women”.