15 upvotes, 3 direct replies (showing 3)
View submission: Do non-binary identities reenforce gender stereotypes?
i’ve met non binary people that present completely gender neutral, very feminine, very masculine, and ones who present with a variety of characteristics that could be considered masculine and feminine.
you can be a man who wears a dress, a woman who wears a dress, or a non binary person who wears a dress. the same is true for trans people of any genders.
ngl it’s incredibly difficult to describe wtf gender feels like to anyone.
i’m a trans man, and i was asked to explain what “being a man” means to my doctor when i was 14, fresh out of the closet. my answer was along the lines of:
“it’s not football, it’s not the colour blue, it’s not masculinity, it’s not anything. i don’t care about or know what being a man feels like, i just know that i feel the same as a cis man with gynomocastia - i should not have boobs, and they are fucking up my mental health. why? don’t know. i also know i want a penis. why? don’t know. does it matter what a man is? i want to and need to medically transition, i don’t care what the label is. if you want to call me a mentally ill woman or a trans man or non binary, it doesn’t matter, but regardless, i know i need to medically transition. i say i’m a boy cuz it just makes sense based on my dysphoria, what i want and need, the pronouns i like, and the fact that it feels right to be called [male name]”
imo anyone who’s reason for medical transition is anything close to “well i am [feminine / masculine / gender neutral]” has it wrong. doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t feel gender dysphoria and don’t need that medical care, but they’ve for sure got the wrong idea
i know a trans man who’s been out the closet for decades and now has a penis. he’s also incredibly flamboyant and effeminate. i know a trans woman who’s a bit of a tomboy. i know men and women who aren’t trans that don’t meet any gender stereotypes.
the concept that gender stereotypes play anything into what sexual characteristics you feel comfortable with is a concept that needs to die.
in terms of social transition (labels, name changes, pronouns, prosthetics and aids like STPs / breast forms / binders / tucking), i’d say it doesn’t matter regardless.
i think the only real difference the label non binary makes is if you’re someone seeking to medically transition in a way that’s not traditional - ie, someone born female who wants chest masculinisation / top surgery but doesn’t want hormones or a penis. or someone who wants HRT but no other form of transition.
but that’s still messy cuz there’s a bunch of trans men / women who don’t feel the need to “fully” transition, or who can’t (other medical issues, extreme obesity, concerns about complications, happy to just use prosthetics, whatever)
then there’s a whole bunch of trans people who say they don’t experience any gender dysphoria / distress / discomfort when presenting as the gender associated with their birth sex, but say they feel more comfortable and happy presenting as a different gender. i don’t get it, but fair play and i’m happy for them for figuring out what works for them - however, it does then add more questions to what the fuck gender is lmao
i don’t really think what gender is matters. i think all that should matter to other people should be what your pronouns and name are, and all that should matter to doctors is wtf you need changed about your body, regardless of what you think your gender is. i don’t care if you’re an alien or a man - do you want boobs or no?
cuz i’ve heard of even cis people getting fucked over while seeking gender affirming care - for example, cis men with gynomocastia having all options outside of surgery being completely swept under the rug and remaining completely unaware of the option of binding while they wait for surgery, being left with completely untreated mental health issues that are caused by the horrors of having boobs as a man, which CAN be eased by binding in the mean time. ultimately surgery is still required, like trans men, but binding is an excellent intermediary option to cope with the dysphoria.
or, worse, young boys being forced to have their breasts removed without their consent because it’s deemed “medically necessary” (it’s not!! sorting out the issue that caused breast tissue is, but the presence of the breast tissue doesn’t do anything bad lmao), only to later come out as trans women and find that they can’t grow breasts using HRT (bc of the surgery forced on them) and now have to have a boob job.
tldr - you can non binary / trans and have zero interest to perform to gender stereotypes. but in the same way that there are straight men that feel like washing their ass makes them gay, there are absolutely non binary people that revolve their identity around gender stereotypes.
rant over 😅
Comment by Mogura-De-Gifdu at 14/01/2025 at 15:09 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Thank you for those explanations!
I often have the same feelings expressed as OP. I am biologically a woman and feel like one, even if I don't wear makeup, don't care about clothes or what the mode is. I like video games and computer programing, and mathematics. I hate pink and purple, and loathe dancing.
I had to often be rude to the ones who told me I wasn't a real woman, not like them (often intended as a compliment by guy friends, like I am some kind of pick me). So when I read about a trans man or NB say that's how they knew they weren't a woman, because of the exact same experiences, it feels somewhat dismissive and frankly sexist. Like, please don't be one more person who impose your stereotypes on men/women about what they can or can't like, how they are supposed to behave, etc.
On the contrary, I always imagined being trans as being reborn as the other biological sex, and even though you have no memory from your past life, you know (you just do) that something is wrong with your body, that that's not supposed to be like that. So like you say: it doesn't really is a matter of what you like or not confirming with one stereotype of one gender or the other but really just a feeling about what you are, and how you see yourself.
Honestly, I'm still working on my mental image for NB and reading about those sharing their experiences to better understand.
Comment by bitterest-sweet at 14/01/2025 at 07:09 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
‘i don’t care if you’re an alien or man—do you want boobs or no?’ highlight of this reply for me
excellent very descriptive reply. the whole concept just makes sense to me even though i’ve never gone through any of it personally, which strange enough means i can’t actually explain why it does make sense, it just does. this explains it perfectly.
Comment by Eireann_9 at 14/01/2025 at 09:57 UTC*
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I'd upvote this a hundred times if i could, specially the paragraph about describing why you wanted to transition and the ""I don't care if you're an alien or a man - do you want boobs or no?" Lol
I feel similarly, been on T for 3 years, have gotten top surgery, go by a male name, don't care about pronouns much. I'm at a point in which I don't care what you call it, as long as I'm allowed to live my life freely, like my experience overlaps so much that you want to consider myself a trans person? Cool. Non binary or genderqueer or agender or whatever cause I'm doing weird stuff with gender but I'm obvs not binary? That's fine. Cis woman cause i technically still identify as a woman? Whatever. I don't care i just don't want boobs, feel better on T and prefer a masc name, the rest is definitions, discourse and sociology theories that I'm not interested in participating in