28 upvotes, 5 direct replies (showing 5)
View submission: Do non-binary identities reenforce gender stereotypes?
Yes. And this is one of the reasons why the concept of a gender non-binary doesn't make sense. I've argued this in professional theaters when I was active as a therapist, but it's easy to get labeled a bigot when you are questioning modern identity ideology.
The trans and non-binary concepts of gender identity do not leave room for the tomboy, or the feminine male. You nailed it on the head when you said that they enforce gender stereotypes, because they require gender stereotypes to exist. It's like a shadow trying to exist without light - non-binary people require binary gender stereotypes to contrast themselves against, otherwise their concept of gender doesn't make sense.
And I'm not saying this because I hate non-binary or trans people. I'm trying to separate the concepts from the people, because we should try to accept and meet all people where they are at. I will always accommodate people with their identity to the best of my ability.
But it needs to be pointed out that for a biological female to be considered non-binary because she is into men's fashion and men's hobbies, it requires you to say that binary women can't like men's fashion or men's hobbies.
Before the trans and non-binary theories of gender took over modern academia and the psychological field, this all comfortably fit within the breadth of gender expression available to the female gender. In my opinion, the gender non-binary theory is trying to reinvent the wheel. We blurred the lines between genders due to the transgender movement and treatments, and the theory of a gender non-binary was sort of a natural extension to that rationale. The problem is that transgenderism is not so much an identity in and of itself as it is a group of people who are treating their gender dysphoria by transitioning their body and presented gender to one that eases their dysphoria. Transgender people don't create a question around gender identity. They just represent a subgroup of people who deal with extreme discomfort presenting as their biological sex.
There was no reason to develop the theory or identity of a gender non-binary, because it presupposes that the fluctuating gender identity of trans people creates some vaguery around gender identity in regards to biological sex. But it doesn't. I know that we all "play the game" of socially acknowledging trans people as their preferred gender out of respect for the individual, but that doesn't mean we've created some unheard of chimera that requires an entirely new concept of gender identity. They're just someone of one biological sex socially presenting as of the other sex, in whatever way that means to them. And while have no issue with people experimenting with different pronouns and exploring concepts of gendered behavior and interests, you can be a woman and like masculine things. It doesn't require a whole new understanding of gender divorced from biological sex. In fact, back to your point, creating this new theory just muddies things by creating clear contradictions.
Comment by ooros at 12/01/2025 at 09:46 UTC
12 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Yes they do leave room, there are droves of cis male drag queens. There are tons of butch cis lesbians.
Nonbinary people are not forcing those people to be trans or nonbinary.
What other people say and feel about their own gender and their experience with expressing it is no one's business because it affects no one else.
If they police others, then they're assholes. But if they're solely defining themselves there's nothing wrong with that.
Comment by TankieErik at 12/01/2025 at 20:46 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Many people have a sense of what body parts and hormones they gave right with, so a trans male and a cis male will often have the same required hormone levels for them to feel right. Trans men don't go on testosterone because they don't like skirts (they may very well like skirts or be feminine because it's not about how you dress but about what you are)
Comment by neverendingplush93 at 13/01/2025 at 07:59 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I don't think most people have the ability to understand what u wrote. And I agree with you 💯. I personally don't care what people identify as, but on a subconscious level as much as people try to deny it, they simply reinforce the biological and behavioural differences that define men and women. It's self grandiose to think that one's existence exists outside the paradigm of I have a penis and I have a vagina. I don't hate these people, but I don't understand people that don't understand themselves.
Comment by Every_Single_Bee at 12/01/2025 at 09:29 UTC
4 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I feel like this understanding collapses though when you ask most people who identify as nonbinary things like whether men can wear dresses and women be breadwinners or other hard stereotype-breaking questions about gender expression and they’ll still say yes nine times out of ten. Most of them clearly don’t believe in the things you’re saying they’d have to believe in to make it make sense, so this framework seems inherently flawed. When I say I’m nb, it means everything to me but the self-evaluation I’m doing has nothing to do with and is not proscriptive to anyone but myself. Tbh I suspect a lot of what I’m trying to describe has no verbiage in the english language is all, and since that’s the only language I have, I simply can’t describe it clearly to you. The only word I have to describe the experience *is* “nonbinary”, and I couldn’t break it down in an understandable way very easily. If anything comes close I suppose it’d just be to say that I’m personally declining the categorization because I don’t see personal value in it, but I’m highly supportive of anyone who does accept it and molds it any way they choose. Like you say, it’s very hard to come up with hard gender signifiers that aren’t just stereotypes, so it comes down to asking myself which gender feels more right on some soul/ego/vibe level, and since no gender concept I’ve yet had presented to me feels right, I’m nonbinary. It may not be very helpful definitionally, but that’s how it is for me.
Comment by Snoo-41360 at 15/01/2025 at 14:52 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
This is a massive misunderstanding of gender. Gender is not defined by the things you do. Feminine men and masculine women still exist in trans circles. Gender is instead about how you wish to interact with your decisions. A guy wearing a dress is different from a girl wearing a dress, (here’s where non binary people come in) and some people wear a dress but don’t want to be the girl wearing a dress or the boy wearing a dress