519 upvotes, 22 direct replies (showing 22)
I had engaged with people in discussions about this in the time after Trump was elected and before inauguration. Many of them are convinced that service members / officers would remember their oath to the Constitution and not obey unlawful orders.
I’m not so sure about that, and the more this administration is taking shape, the more doubtful I am.
The propaganda and the brainwashing by the right is unfortunately so deeply ingrained, I’m pretty sure they’d carry out quite a lot of orders against the American people while believing it’s in the name of ��National Security.”
They will be lied to any which way to manipulate them into doing this, and they’re going to comply.
Comment by Catch_022 at 02/02/2025 at 05:31 UTC
208 upvotes, 3 direct replies
The issue is that the Trumps are well aware of this and are going to replace people in leadership positions with yes men (they have already started).
If the President orders something, the sec def agrees, your general agrees, your colonel, your captain, etc all agree then most peoplr are going to do it, even if you feel that, maybe, it isn't right.
Remember they won't say "kill all the Dems", it will be at the end of a long line of escalations, provocations and propaganda. Even then it will be "need to put all the terrorists in one place away from real Americans", and if they resist shoot them, etc.
Comment by mayfly42 at 02/02/2025 at 06:22 UTC
63 upvotes, 1 direct replies
NPR's Embedded podcast did a couple of episodes about a service member who was at January 6th[1] and the consequences or lack thereof he faced. I think there are many in military service who are happy that Trump is president and supportive of what he's doing.
1: https://www.npr.org/2026/01/01/1200150227/-embedded-agoodguy-trailer
Comment by eggoed at 02/02/2025 at 06:24 UTC
44 upvotes, 4 direct replies
I agree with this; it’s pathetic to see how easily people down the command chain will just follow orders with minimal pushback. The water / dam release debacle in California is a good example; it was absolutely nuts and could actually have killed people, and the Army Corps of Engineers was just like “sure.”
Comment by OhFuuuccckkkkk at 02/02/2025 at 05:26 UTC
69 upvotes, 7 direct replies
This is what I thought about when he gave the 8000 soldiers who disobeyed vaccine mandates a pardon and reenlistment. He’s now got 8000 soldiers loyal to him because of what he did for them. It’s all quid pro quo, and that’s what makes this all scarier than it should be.
Comment by thatthatguy at 02/02/2025 at 16:55 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The problem is that it’s entirely possible to dismantle the constitution within the bounds of the constitution. So long as he’s acting within the broad and sweeping authority of the presidency, it would be very difficult for high-ranking members of the military to justify refusing orders. If the decision to refuse is not unanimous then the resisting officers can be dismissed until an officer with greater political ambitions is found.
The pentagon can be reasonably relied on to resist impulsive and obviously unlawful instructions, but they can’t be depended on to stop a protracted scheme of using the law to subvert the law.
Comment by cchristophher at 02/02/2025 at 08:17 UTC
21 upvotes, 1 direct replies
From a human behavioral point of view, I definitely agree. Even if most service members did disagree with the orders themselves, we know herd mentality is so strong. You know how hard it will be for individual service members to resist the orders of their peers and superiors? You already see how the military treats victims of sexual assault. They’re punished for speaking out, even killed by their peers.
Comment by R_V_Z at 03/02/2025 at 02:46 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Either Obama or Biden should have blocked Fox News (and eventually OAN and Newsmax) from being aired on federal property.
Comment by SadGruffman at 02/02/2025 at 09:46 UTC
16 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I kind of agree with you here.
It’s pretty ostentatious to suggest that say, Germans in 1938 just didn’t swear allegiance to a flag or constitution of some other kind and we just finally figured it out in today’s day and age.
People in power abuse those unwilling or unable to question the use of power.
Someone who refuses to pull the trigger will just be replaced by someone who can’t afford do, or worse, doesn’t care enough not to.
Comment by jeers1 at 02/02/2025 at 14:26 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
hmmmm this sounds so familiar from my history class
Comment by EJ2600 at 02/02/2025 at 19:59 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Soldiers are socialized to follow orders. Round up in camps means round up in camp. Doubt very much you will see dissent from that group.
Comment by Foolgazi at 02/02/2025 at 16:56 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Especially since anyone disobeying an order from their immediate superior will be guaranteed a pardon.
Comment by CaptainMagnets at 03/02/2025 at 02:14 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
In my opinion they'll send the military to Mexico or Canada to keep them occupied while they take over.
Comment by Tex-Rob at 02/02/2025 at 15:02 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I have worried and wondered for years that the military increasingly can’t get the highest quality of candidates they used to be able to. Every service has made concessions to allow increasingly unfit people from serving. The Air Force I knew 1996-2000 seems nothing like now.
Comment by PhantomBanker at 02/02/2025 at 15:27 UTC
1 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I have a question about “unlawful orders”. Since the President is now considered immune for all official acts, would all his orders be considered lawful? If so, does that mean that all orders need to be followed under penalty of insubordination?
Comment by ender23 at 02/02/2025 at 15:31 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The army isn't the issue here. It's most likely neutral officially.
It's every city/states police force who is heavily armed and not cohesive at all nationally
Comment by cedarpointtime at 02/02/2025 at 16:44 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Does the cia preserve that oath or do they do what they want? So, at least cia can do anything they want.
Comment by malarkioso at 02/02/2025 at 22:46 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Your perspective is terrifying
Comment by ipsum629 at 03/02/2025 at 22:58 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I think it is more likely than not that the Generals of the US army would not follow a blatantly unconstitutional and self serving order. Rank and file soldiers are taught to obey. Officers are allowed to think.
Comment by smedlap at 02/02/2025 at 13:38 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
He will change the oath the day before he gives the orders to round up those who voted against him.
Comment by wosh at 02/02/2025 at 12:27 UTC
0 upvotes, 0 direct replies
My concern withcl Amy of these discussions is what constitutes and unlawful order? Like what exactly triggers something in the military to make it unlawful?
Comment by Sneep_Snorp5 at 02/02/2025 at 17:11 UTC
-1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Like maintaining the borders? Give some decent examples. So far I have seen nothing that is a fascia policy, and I’m convinced half the population doesn’t even understand what that word means.
Comment by Alive_Shoulder3573 at 02/02/2025 at 17:22 UTC
-4 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Exactly what orders has Trump given to the military that are unlawful and unconstitutional?