0 upvotes, 2 direct replies (showing 2)
View submission: Is nirvana a permanent state?
You and I hold different views than numbersev. You are not repeating what numbersev said in your own words. If anything you are allowing numbersev incorrect statement confuse your mind probably because numbersev said a lot of things all mixed together.
numbersev said a lot of things but my main objection is to the statement that "*Nirvana is the unconditioned reality. Meaning it doesn't arise, nor is it dependent on any other requisite causes or conditions. It doesn't change nor cease. It always is*." This too me is just plainly false.
numbersev statement seems to describes nirvana as a physical thing but it is a state of mind. Having achieve the mental state of nirvana then yes one's mind may perceive "*unconditioned reality*" but nirvana itself is not that unconditioned reality. Nirvana is a state of mind that perceives reality without all our mental/psychological hangups, it is not reality itself.
We humans have **no direct access** to reality as we experience reality through our senses which is then interpreted via our mental facilities which themselves are influenced by our mental/psychological hangups or what you (and Buddhism) calls "*defilements*". And NO reality is NOT an "*illusion*" to which I made a comment about here = LINK[1].
Buddhism's teachings can be confusing for many but if you keep in mind that Gautama Buddha was more concerned with the psychological aspect of overcoming duhkha rather than the metaphysical aspect of reality then you will not be so confused.
Even the statement "*unconditioned reality*" is a bit misleading but I will let is stay as long as one understands that "*unconditioned*" just means perceiving "*reality*" without all our mental/psychological hangups, i.e., "*defilements*" getting in the way.
Must I remind you of the finger pointing to the moon[2]. When I read numbersev statement my mind just went WTF is numbersev writing about. I can't believe people were taking in by numbersev words voting them up. I am certain numbersev didn't intentionally mean to confuse others but numbersev statement is false nonetheless.
"*We are suspended in language in such a way that we cannot say what is up and what is down. The word "reality" is also a word, a word which we must learn to use correctly.*" ~ Niels Bohr.
Comment by dhamma_rob at 25/02/2025 at 02:16 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
You may find the statement, "Nirvana is unconditioned reality." to be nonsense, but that statement has textual support from the Pali canon and notable scholar-monks, such as Bhikkhu Bodhi. Nibbana is described by the Buddha as a "dhatu,' i.e., element or realm. Bhikkhu Bodhi's own view as expressed in In the Buddha's Words is that Nibbana seems to refer to both the cessation of greed, hatred, and delusions, and the Unconditioned, Deathless element or realm realizable only with the cessation of the defilements. The Pali Canon describes that the Noble Ones (the 4 pairs of streamwinners, once-returners, nonreturners, and arahants) perceive Nibbana as an object of meditation with their "Dhamma Eye." The Buddha calls Nibbana the Unborn, Deathless, the Island, the Sanctuary, the Un-ailing state.
I don't think numbersev meant that Nibbana was a physical reality, since physical things are by their very nature conditioned and numberserv says that Nibbana is unconditioned.
I agree that Nibbana is not "reality itself" because the Dhamma describes two aspects of so-called reality, Samsara and Nibbana, which the Northern Transmission considers coextensive with ignorance being what keeps one from finding the peace of the Unconditioned within the realm of conditions.
Comment by IntransigentErudite at 27/02/2025 at 13:06 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Nirvana is samsara on last analysis, there is no such thing as nirvana.
Buddhists do argue we have direct access to fundamental reality and its not perceptions. Mind in the sense of no-mind is fundamental, it is awareness and is neither existent nor non-existent its immaterial and no-thing. Dzogchen and mahamudra express this very clearly.
Awareness is the only scale invariant aspect of reality one can know.
