[tech] default response?

1. Petite Abeille (petite.abeille (a) gmail.com)

Is this a valid response? Just 2, followed by text/gemini content?

2
...
<eof>

In other words: ? 2 ? 20 ? text/gemini ? text/gemini;charset=utf-8

Kosher?

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2. Omar Polo (op (a) omarpolo.com)


Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> writes:

> Is this a valid response? Just 2, followed by text/gemini content?
>
> 2
> ...
> <eof>
>
> In other words: ? 2 ? 20 ? text/gemini ? text/gemini;charset=utf-8
>
> Kosher?

gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/specification.gmi

> Gemini response headers look like this:
>
> <STATUS><SPACE><META><CR><LF>
>
> <STATUS> is a two-digit numeric status code, as described below in 3.2 and in
> Appendix 1.

So it isn't allowed by the spec and, personally, I don't see how
allowing single-digit response could be a good idea.

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3. Petite Abeille (petite.abeille (a) gmail.com)



> On Dec 30, 2020, at 11:58, Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote:
> 
> So it isn't allowed by the spec and, personally, I don't see how
> allowing single-digit response could be a good idea.

Right. So, no more 1 digit response code (i.e. generic success "2" use to 
be a thing), and no more default content-type (i.e. text/gemini).

So a minimal valid response would be:

20 text/gemini
...
<eof>

Correct?

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4. Petite Abeille (petite.abeille (a) gmail.com)



> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:48, Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> So a minimal valid response would be:
> 
> 20 text/gemini

Actually:

20 text
<eof>

No need for a subtype.

Would that be the minimal viable response?

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5. Omar Polo (op (a) omarpolo.com)


Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> writes:

>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 11:58, Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> So it isn't allowed by the spec and, personally, I don't see how
>> allowing single-digit response could be a good idea.
>
> Right. So, no more 1 digit response code (i.e. generic success "2" use 
to be a thing), and no more default content-type (i.e. text/gemini).

I recall reading a mail from solderpunk (or maybe was someone else)
regarding the fact that initially the codes were one digit only.  Now
two are mandatory.

> So a minimal valid response would be:
>
> 20 text/gemini
> ...
> <eof>
>
> Correct?

Yup.  (btw, that's how my server replies to every request for gemini
files, since charset=utf-8 seems to be redundant.)

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6. Omar Polo (op (a) omarpolo.com)


Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> writes:

>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:48, Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> So a minimal valid response would be:
>> 
>> 20 text/gemini
>
> Actually:
>
> 20 text
> <eof>
>
> No need for a subtype.

is it still valid?  Mind you, I am pretty ignorant regarding various
standards, but a quick look at RFC2045, section 5.1 "Syntax of the
Content-Type Header Field" seems to mark the subtype as required.

Also "grammar" in the wikipedia page[0] mark the subtype as required:
>type "/" [tree "."] subtype ["+" suffix] *[";" parameter]

I'm missing something?

> Would that be the minimal viable response?

To be fair, with the *current* specification

20\r\n
<eof>

is the minimal response allowed, since the spec still has the phrase:

> If <META> is an empty string, the MIME type MUST default to
> "text/gemini; charset=utf-8".  The text/gemini media type is defined
> in section 5.

but that's gonna be removed in a while (or at least is the impression I
got from the other thread).

I'm curios though, why are you trying to define the "smallest possible
response?"

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_type

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7. Petite Abeille (petite.abeille (a) gmail.com)



> On Dec 30, 2020, at 13:13, Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote:
> 
> is it still valid?  

Ah, actually, you are right, the subtype is required now (thought old 
style MIME had it optional).

So text/* as a minimum I guess.

> 
> To be fair, with the *current* specification
> 
> 20\r\n
> <eof>
> 
> is the minimal response allowed, since the spec still has the phrase:

There you go. So my first example then, plus two digits code.

> but that's gonna be removed in a while (or at least is the impression I
> got from the other thread).

Is that so? Lost track over time.

> I'm curios though, why are you trying to define the "smallest possible
> response?"

Well, to flush out all such questions, and know what to expect at a very minimum :)

Which, as of today is:

20\r\n
<eof>

I.e. an empty text/gemini;charset=utf-8 response.

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8. Katarina Eriksson (gmym (a) coopdot.com)

This is low priority for [spec] but we should rephrase parts of the
appendix before finalizing.

Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote:

>
> Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> writes:
>
> >> On Dec 30, 2020, at 11:58, Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> So it isn't allowed by the spec and, personally, I don't see how
> >> allowing single-digit response could be a good idea.
> >
> > Right. So, no more 1 digit response code (i.e. generic success "2" use
> to be a thing), and no more default content-type (i.e. text/gemini).
>
> I recall reading a mail from solderpunk (or maybe was someone else)
> regarding the fact that initially the codes were one digit only.  Now
> two are mandatory.
>

It's like you wrote.

While the appendix still refers to single-digit codes*, meaning the first
digit of the two digit code, the server still needs to send at least a
filler zero as the second digit in a minimal server.

The client can still ignore the second digit if it wants to.


to a code with two digits, where one of them is a filler, as a
"single-digit code" is confusing if you don't know the history of the
protocol.

-- 
Katarina

>
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9. Petite Abeille (petite.abeille (a) gmail.com)



> On Jan 1, 2021, at 07:07, Katarina Eriksson <gmym at coopdot.com> wrote:
> 
> *) This might need some improvement in the phrasing of the spec. 
Referring to a code with two digits, where one of them is a filler, as a 
"single-digit code" is confusing if you don't know the history of the protocol.
> 

Right you are.  

Formalism,  good editing, and brevity will help tremendously. The 
specification has to be precise, not meandering.

"Brevity is the soul of wit."
-- William Shakespeare

"Brevity is the soul of lingerie."
-- Dorothy Parker

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/02/25/brevity/

? ???

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