Gday Gemini Community Bit off topic from Gemini I came across this gem for the people still using old 16/32bit DOS based vintage computers ngIRCd - IRC Server - DOS 16-bit port for 8088 or better PC's https://github.com/mikechambers84/ngIRCd-DOS Honestly I would be amazed if any RLL/MFM or IDE drive still works from 1985-1995-2000ish era ---------------------------------------------- For anyone wanting to go back to old Intel without IME, DRM and the Cloud ( pre 915 chipset) You could build a PC using Aliexpress
Why not switching to SBC with less energy used? freD. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Monday, August 30th, 2021 at 10:13, charliebrownau <charliebrownau@protonmail.com> wrote: > Gday Gemini Community > > Bit off topic from Gemini > > I came across this gem for the people still > > using old 16/32bit DOS based vintage computers > > ngIRCd - IRC Server - DOS 16-bit port for 8088 or better PC's > > https://github.com/mikechambers84/ngIRCd-DOS > > Honestly I would be amazed if any RLL/MFM or IDE drive > > still works from 1985-1995-2000ish era > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- > > For anyone wanting to go back to old Intel > > without IME, DRM and the Cloud ( pre 915 chipset) > > You could build a PC using Aliexpress > > - USD$17.43 - Intel LGA775 CPU x5460 > > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32736327257.html? > - 775 mobo atx/matx - $25-55 > > https://www.aliexpress.com/af/775-motherboard.html? > - PSU - $45 > - CDROM (SATA) - $25 > - HDD (SATA) - $45 > - Low end PCI video card $25-45 (older probly better) > - Case $25-45 > - Old VGA LCD - free - $25 > > You might be able to get an PCI 32bit stuff off ebay/ali/2nd hand market , cross fingers onboard sound/lan still works in 2020-2025 > > > I went thou several systems before x85 , > > Atar2600 >> Amstrad CPC664 >> Amiga 500 > > > > Custom Built XT (1997) even using old > > stuff like 3DFX/Cytrix and 486's that had an SX 486 processor and a 386 maths copro > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > In SHTF would we really be depanding on > > this stuff in grid down situation ? > > Also its possible to do ethernet over barb wire > > All the best > > Regards > > Charliebrownau > > Charliebrownau@protonmail.com > > charliebrownau.com
Single Board Computer, like RaspberryPi. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Monday, August 30th, 2021 at 17:56, Sergei Gnezdov <sergei.gnezdov@gmail.com> wrote: > What is SBC? > > On 8/30/21 7:33 AM, defdefred wrote: > > > Why not switching to SBC with less energy used? > > > > freD. > > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > > > On Monday, August 30th, 2021 at 10:13, charliebrownau charliebrownau@protonmail.com wrote: > > > > > Gday Gemini Community > > > > > > Bit off topic from Gemini > > > > > > I came across this gem for the people still > > > > > > using old 16/32bit DOS based vintage computers > > > > > > ngIRCd - IRC Server - DOS 16-bit port for 8088 or better PC's > > > > > > https://github.com/mikechambers84/ngIRCd-DOS > > > > > > Honestly I would be amazed if any RLL/MFM or IDE drive > > > > > > still works from 1985-1995-2000ish era > > > > > > For anyone wanting to go back to old Intel > > > > > > without IME, DRM and the Cloud ( pre 915 chipset) > > > > > > You could build a PC using Aliexpress > > > > > > - USD$17.43 - Intel LGA775 CPU x5460 > > > > > > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32736327257.html? > > > > > > - 775 mobo atx/matx - $25-55 > > > > > > https://www.aliexpress.com/af/775-motherboard.html? > > > > > > - PSU - $45 > > > > > > - CDROM (SATA) - $25 > > > > > > - HDD (SATA) - $45 > > > > > > - Low end PCI video card $25-45 (older probly better) > > > > > > - Case $25-45 > > > > > > - Old VGA LCD - free - $25 > > > > > > You might be able to get an PCI 32bit stuff off ebay/ali/2nd hand market , cross fingers onboard sound/lan still works in 2020-2025 > > > > > > > > > I went thou several systems before x85 , > > > > > > Atar2600 >> Amstrad CPC664 >> Amiga 500 > > > > > > > > Custom Built XT (1997) even using old > > > > > > > > > > stuff like 3DFX/Cytrix and 486's that had an SX 486 processor and a 386 maths copro > > > > > > In SHTF would we really be depanding on > > > > > > this stuff in grid down situation ? > > > > > > Also its possible to do ethernet over barb wire > > > > > > All the best > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Charliebrownau > > > > > > Charliebrownau@protonmail.com > > > > > > charliebrownau.com
On 31 Aug 2021, at 10:11, defdefred wrote: > Single Board Computer, like RaspberryPi. > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On Monday, August 30th, 2021 at 17:56, Sergei Gnezdov <sergei.gnezdov@gmail.com> wrote: > >> What is SBC? >> >> On 8/30/21 7:33 AM, defdefred wrote: >> >>> Why not switching to SBC with less energy used? >>> because SBCs are not "vintage computers". The goal of "vintage computing" is not using low resource machines, but keeping, using and preserving "old" machines. ngIRCd enables "vintage computer" enthusiasts to use vintage hardware for as an IRC server, for example on vintage computer meetings. Some people (like me) have fun doing so. A project like ngIRCd is not aimed to have such an IRC-Server run 24h/365d in the Internet (but I guess some people will do, because they can). Greetings Carsten
I understand, but the point is that older x86 are power intensive. So OK to have fun as desktop machine, but not as server running H24... I do use old computer as main Linux machine... I call them "ordinosaure" in french :-) like computosaure... Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, August 31st, 2021 at 10:24, Carsten Strotmann <carsten@strotmann.de> wrote: > On 31 Aug 2021, at 10:11, defdefred wrote: > > > Single Board Computer, like RaspberryPi. > > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > > > On Monday, August 30th, 2021 at 17:56, Sergei Gnezdov sergei.gnezdov@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > What is SBC? > > > > > > On 8/30/21 7:33 AM, defdefred wrote: > > > > > > > Why not switching to SBC with less energy used? > > because SBCs are not "vintage computers". > > The goal of "vintage computing" is not using low resource machines, but keeping, using and preserving "old" machines. > > ngIRCd enables "vintage computer" enthusiasts to use vintage hardware for as an IRC server, for example on vintage computer meetings. > > Some people (like me) have fun doing so. > > A project like ngIRCd is not aimed to have such an IRC-Server run 24h/365d in the Internet (but I guess some people will do, because they can). > > Greetings > > Carsten
On 2021-08-31 09:00, defdefred wrote:
> I understand, but the point is that older x86 are power intensive.
> So OK to have fun as desktop machine, but not as server running H24...
1) Manufacturing a new computer is significantly more power intensive.
2) Electronic waste is bad.
3) "Reduce. Reuse. Recycle". First two R's are very important...
> I do use old computer as main Linux machine... I call them "ordinosaure"
in french :-) like computosaure...
I'm writing this email from 18 y/o laptop working as a thin client
(SPICE protocol is amazing!). I call it paleobook ("paleolithic
notebook")
Agreed. Though I find it interesting at how differing folk on this list take the Gemini philosophy and go in compete diffrent directions with it. Fascinating really that one will focus on modern ultra low power devices like the pi or Arduino (or of those didn't exist would have focused on Tomato-able routers and NICs) and another will focus on taking existing fossil hardware and see what can be done with it. Neither approach is seen as anything other than deluded by mainstream normies because anemic specs by modern standards, and yet here we are.
1) Manufacturing a new computer is significantly more power intensive. 2) Electronic waste is bad. 3) "Reduce. Reuse. Recycle". First two R's are very important... Agreed. How about keeping most of the part and changing only the power intensive CPU? :-) > Neither approach is seen as anything other than deluded by mainstream normies because anemic specs by modern standards, and yet here we are. So true.
On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 4:32 AM defdefred <defdefred@protonmail.com> wrote: > > 1) Manufacturing a new computer is significantly more power intensive. > 2) Electronic waste is bad. > 3) "Reduce. Reuse. Recycle". First two R's are very important... > > Agreed. > How about keeping most of the part and changing only the power intensive CPU? :-) The power needed to manufacture the components of a new computer are much higher than the power needed to run an old one for many many years. No matter how many watts your CPU draws (the Intel LGA775 Xeon draws 120W, half of their modern high end desktop chips), it won't match the power draw of silicon fabs. And also the challenges of working with old hardware and modern software/protocols can be fun.
Hi, the power consumption of old 80286 or 8086 machines are not so bad if you replace the old harddisk with an SD-Card adapter, or use a system with no harddisk (only floppy disk). I'm able to run an old 286 laptop on a modern battery for many hours. Greetings Carsten September 1, 2021 11:04 PM, "Benjamin Cronin" <bcronin720@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 4:32 AM defdefred <defdefred@protonmail.com> wrote: > >> 1) Manufacturing a new computer is significantly more power intensive. >> 2) Electronic waste is bad. >> 3) "Reduce. Reuse. Recycle". First two R's are very important... >> >> Agreed. >> How about keeping most of the part and changing only the power intensive CPU? :-) > > The power needed to manufacture the components of a new computer are > much higher than the power needed to run an old one for many many > years. No matter how many watts your CPU draws (the Intel LGA775 Xeon > draws 120W, half of their modern high end desktop chips), it won't > match the power draw of silicon fabs. And also the challenges of > working with old hardware and modern software/protocols can be fun.
I like all of this too :-) But sometime, I think of all the power in a 2$ ESP32 and I wonder if a efficient monotache OS for 32 bit microcontroleur couldn't be an option...
(I don't know what monotache means.) Well, there is FreeDOS and I think the source code for some MS DOS versions is easy to find as well. A port for modern microcontrollers would be interesting, but nothing I think I'd personally take up working at.
On 8/30/21, charliebrownau <charliebrownau@protonmail.com> wrote: > Honestly I would be amazed if any RLL/MFM or IDE drive > still works from 1985-1995-2000ish era For what it's worth, occasionally I pick up 1992 model Amigas (A600, A1200) with the original IDE drives still in place and working. I'm not sure why the expectation is so low. We need to remember that the drives from this era were not used nearly as much as drives are now, but were still spun up and exercised regularly at boot. There was no swap partition; we had the opposite, a RAM disk for swapping disk content to RAM :). A lot of software still didn't (officially) install to hard disk, and for other software there was little reason to install it to hard disk. Writes to the disk only ever happened as a direct result to a user operation like "Save file" or whatever. This is a good combination of factors for hard drive longevity. 2000ish is a pretty low bar, too. No drive I have from that era has broken down. These are all in PC systems running Linux or DOS. Still, the hard disk is usually the first thing I replace in the old computers I use a lot. If there's an IDE interface, I'll usually put a compact flash card there. When you exercise a drive for the first time in potentially decades you might eventually run into problems related to disuse even if they're not worn out. Best regards, Philip
> (I don't know what monotache means.) Oppps single task OS... Amazing: MS-DOS emulated on ESP32... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I1U2nEoxIQ&list=PLv49lyEwqDNMz9XGBy6wnBzBA YFVMdCki&index=25 Imagine the power of native ESP32 apps... freD. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Thursday, September 2nd, 2021 at 10:11, steeph <ml@steeph.de> wrote: > (I don't know what monotache means.) Well, there is FreeDOS and I think > > the source code for some MS DOS versions is easy to find as well. A port > > for modern microcontrollers would be interesting, but nothing I think > > I'd personally take up working at.
More amazing... everything packaged by TTGO: https://lehwalder.wordpress.com/2021/04/07/runcpm-on-the-lilygo-ttgo-vga32-v1-4/ ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Thursday, September 2nd, 2021 at 15:08, defdefred <defdefred@protonmail.com> wrote: > > (I don't know what monotache means.) > > Oppps single task OS... > > Amazing: MS-DOS emulated on ESP32... > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I1U2nEoxIQ&list=PLv49lyEwqDNMz9XGBy6wnBz BAYFVMdCki&index=25 > > Imagine the power of native ESP32 apps... > > freD. > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On Thursday, September 2nd, 2021 at 10:11, steeph ml@steeph.de wrote: > > > (I don't know what monotache means.) Well, there is FreeDOS and I think > > > > the source code for some MS DOS versions is easy to find as well. A port > > > > for modern microcontrollers would be interesting, but nothing I think > > > > I'd personally take up working at.
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