From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun Nov 22 10:26:19 1998 From: Bjorn Helgason Subject: Jforum: I-Mac Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:12:21 -0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE162A.B178BCF0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE162A.B178BCF0 I was looking at the I-Mac on an exhibition and it looks like a very interesting machine. I was told that it is possible to program it the same way as the old Macs given you got some emulation program. As J provided for Macs then I assume that it would be possible to run it on an I-Mac. As I have never done any programming on a Mac nor touched any Mac for many years I am wondering how feasable such a buy is. Does anyone have experience with J on an I-Mac and willing to tell how that can be useful? /Gosi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE162A.B178BCF0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IisPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZvcnVtQGpzb2Z0d2Fy ZS5jb20AU01UUABmb3J1bUBqc29mdHdhcmUuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAZm9ydW1AanNvZnR3YXJlLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2ZvcnVtQGpzb2Z0d2FyZS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpGT1JVTUBKU09GVFdBUkUu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABmb3J1bUBqc29mdHdhcmUuY29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZvcnVtQGpzb2Z0d2FyZS5jb20AU01U UABmb3J1bUBqc29mdHdhcmUuY29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC kVcBBIABAAYAAABJLU1hYwCHAQEFgAMADgAAAM4HCwAWAA8ADAAVAAAAJgEBIIADAA4AAADOBwsA FgAPAAcAAAAAAAwBAQmAAQAhAAAAOTk5MjJGQTkyOTE2QkUxMThDMkQ4MkU0MTZDNDE1RDkAHwcB A5AGABQFAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAA AAAAQAA5AJBat4AqFr4BHgBwAAEAAAAGAAAASS1NYWMAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvhYqgDrYpQfS ghwR0on7AAAAAAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEAAAAGdvc2lAY2VudHJ1 bS5pcwADAAYQ/SoQ2gMABxCRAQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASVdBU0xPT0tJTkdBVFRIRUktTUFDT05B TkVYSElCSVRJT05BTkRJVExPT0tTTElLRUFWRVJZSU5URVJFU1RJTkdNQUNISU5FSVdBU1RPTERU SEFUSVRJU1BPU1NJQkxFVE9QUgAAAAACAQkQAQAAABMCAAAPAgAA7gIAAExaRnV0OB+6AwAKAHJj cGcxMjUWMgD4C2BuDhAwMzmdAfcgAqQD4wIAY2gKwGBzZXQwIAcTAoB9swqACMggOwlvDjA1AoDZ CoF1YwBQCwNjAEEPBYIzC6YgSSB3YQQgiQkAb2sLgGcgYQVASHRoZRZALU0A0CAHAiAXIAOgZXho aWLIaXRpGANkIBiwFqMxFpFpa2UKogqAYSD6dgSQeRlAAjAEkAeQGMDHFwEAwRiAbmUuGiQaJP0W VHQG8BkwF2AXMRlRBADYIHBvBBAYkGwXgB1QZx5AA2AJwGFtGUIXYnP/H2AXgBZwGtAdIhdwGiQd YrMXwQQgZ2kaoAOgeQhgNSHQbwVAcwNwF4BlbV51C2AYwx8VHCtBBCBK+R8CdmkBABkwAhAFwSGi zxdhA6AWUBaAc3UgIR2m9ncIYB1xYheAHlYaJB7h/HJ1A6AZURgEF6MkLhZQmxEAGqAgHAAaoSBk AiDvF4AAcBrQHxVtFvIYAiGC/yvgBbEdUBRwF3AZMBolLLHPF8Il0gOBGtB5ZRERJqKfH3AnwBkg BnEXAWhvB+B+ZjBwIAAeoibwEPAtwWLKdRrRcxwrRG8HkSyhtyxiK6MYYHAGcQnwYyAxvxiwMrAl ICnZGQMD8GwZ4HcXAR7hKNVlN3Axox2jY6sDkSghdREwZiMwPxw6vC9HHmAAoBozEfEAO9AAAwAQ EAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMHCcN8EpFr4BQAAIMHCcN8EpFr4BCwABgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4ABoAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADAAeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAABhQAAAAAAAAsAEIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwARgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADABKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAFYAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAAB AAAAAAAAAB4AJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeACeACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAFgM= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE162A.B178BCF0-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Sun Nov 22 15:28:09 1998 Subject: Re: Jforum: I-Mac I run on a Mac model G3 that pre-dates slightly the IMac. It is my understanding that the I-Mac is the same CPU, the G3, and at the same speed. I love the Mac OS, but some folks who come out of the PC world don't like it. One complaint I used to hear is that it has no "underlying" OS (like DOS, for instance). But this is not quit right. The big difference is that the OS and the windowing system have been integrated for years, instead of adding windows on top of DOS. I think that you will find that J will run beautifully on your Mac. The points that I find frustrating are that (1) The J for Mac is always a "backport" of the PC version, and does not fit smoothly with the way everything else works on the Mac. (2) At one time Roger did not understand how to spawn a task on the Mac (like the "host" command does on unix and PC). It is possible. Other programmers do it. For example MS Word can call up Equation Editor. (Maybe this is fixed now.) I downloaded J4.01 the other day, and it did run. I tried the functions from the paper called "The Archaeologist's Photo" and they all seemed to run OK. My code was vintage 1992, mostly. I was pleased that it still works. Lee From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon Nov 23 01:41:06 1998 Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:17:23 +0100 From: "david alis" Subject: Re: Jforum: I-Mac References: <01BE162A.B15D45B0@n211.skima.is> Amazon.com is reporting that the book reference in the mapped files Lab is out of print... Any suggestions for alternatives? David Alis ================= " For more information use Win32 reference materials. 'Advanced Windows : The Developer's Guide to the Win32 API for Windows NT 3.5 and Windows 95' by Jeffrey Richter from Microsoft Press is recommended." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From gosi@centrum.is Mon Nov 23 04:34:51 1998 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Gosi_Helgason?= Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:11:44 -0000 Return-Receipt-To: > I run on a Mac model G3 that pre-dates slightly the IMac. > It is my understanding that the I-Mac is the same CPU, the > G3, and at the same speed. That is what I heard from the I-Mac salesperson too. > I love the Mac OS, but some > folks who come out of the PC world don't like it. One > complaint I used to hear is that it has no "underlying" OS > (like DOS, for instance). But this is not quit right. > The big difference is that the OS and the windowing system > have been integrated for years, instead of adding > windows on top of DOS. One of the issues I have heard is that the files, charactersets and such are not easily moved between the two and it is not apparent how to work with files in the mac for a person used to PC and Unix. > I think that you will find > that J will run beautifully on your Mac. I have not got myself an IMac yet. > The points > that I find frustrating are that > (1) The J for Mac is always a "backport" of the PC version, > and does not fit smoothly with the way everything else > works on the Mac. I would like to see this issue presented to the forum. If you will not do it do you object to me sending it in? > (2) At one time Roger did not understand how to spawn a > task on the Mac (like the "host" command does on > unix and PC). It is possible. This needs to be presented as well as an issue in the Forum > Other programmers > do it. For example MS Word can call up Equation Editor. > (Maybe this is fixed now.) Would be good to find out. > I downloaded J4.01 the other day, and it did run. I tried > the functions from the paper called "The Archaeologist's Photo" > and they all seemed to run OK. My code was vintage 1992, > mostly. I was pleased that it still works. Can you do windows, read and write files, do sockets? What are the limitations? I would like to see all issues with the I-Mac presented top the forum. I believe the I-Mac is going to be a trendsetter and will put Apple back on the map. J needs to be present and active in there. Not just as an afterthought. /Gosi From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon Nov 23 07:03:43 1998 From: "Chris Burke" Subject: Re: Jforum: I-Mac Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:45:40 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" David, Are you sure? I just checked Amazon and saw no indication that it was out of print. A good alternative would be the Petzold book, which was republished this month. Chris -----Original Message----- From: david alis Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 1:11 AM Subject: Re: Jforum: I-Mac > >Amazon.com is reporting that the book reference in the mapped files Lab is out >of print... >Any suggestions for alternatives? >David Alis >================= >" For more information use Win32 reference materials. 'Advanced >Windows : The Developer's Guide to the Win32 API for Windows >NT 3.5 and Windows 95' by Jeffrey Richter from Microsoft >Press is recommended." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon Nov 23 08:05:07 1998 From: JoHo Subject: RE: Jforum: Advanced Windows by Jeffery Richter Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:46:51 -0000 I just bought the book, which is now called only "Advanced Windows" If you search only for the authors name "Jeffery Richter", you will get it listed. Greetings, JoHo > -----Original Message----- > From: david alis [SMTP:dalis@balcab.ch] > Sent: Monday, November 23, 1998 6:17 AM > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Re: Jforum: I-Mac > > > Amazon.com is reporting that the book reference in the mapped files > Lab is out > of print... > Any suggestions for alternatives? > David Alis > ================= > " For more information use Win32 reference materials. 'Advanced > Windows : The Developer's Guide to the Win32 API for Windows > NT 3.5 and Windows 95' by Jeffrey Richter from Microsoft > Press is recommended." > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon Nov 23 10:03:56 1998 References: <36543E67.64CA@Interlog.Com> Organization: Voxel From: "Andrew Nikitin" Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:52:05 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Jforum: Re: usefulness of . 19-Nov-98 10:51 Roger Hui wrote: > It's easier to see these applications, if you think of an equivalent > formulation of the determinant f/ . g , viz., g/ over all the !n ways > of choosing an element from each row and column, then the f/ over _that_. Trying to determine actual order of !n ways involved i have composed verb detperm=. ,/ . (,&.>) and applied it to ]r=.(- ]\ (# i.))3 0 0 0 1 1 1 2 2 2 I was slightly surprized that this order is the same, as generated by A. verb. (Of course, there is nothing unexpected in this fact. BTW, maybe this method can be used as one more way to produce table of permutation in lexical order is APLs without A., but with monadic . (are there any?).) detperm r +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ |0 1 2|0 2 1|1 0 2|1 2 0|2 0 1|2 1 0| +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ (<"1 (A.&i.~ !)3) -: detperm r 1 If so, then, may be, we can use something like sq=.((A.&i.~ !)@# {"0 1"1 _ |:) i. 3 3 f/ g/"1 sq in place of f/ . g (for f, that is distributive over g)? The answer is "yes" for associative f, and "no" for others. For example -/ */"1 sq is not 0. So, can we produce _that_ (in terms of quotation above), such that f/ applied to it would give us the correct result? -/ applied to permutations in order of "minimal changes" shall give us correct result. May be, moving backwards, we can produce permutation in order of "minimal change" using . in simple, nonrecurrent way? > Note that currently, only -/ .* on extended integer or rational arguments > executes in polynomial time and linear space; all other case take > at least !n time and space. Why doubles are not included in this list? Because of impossibility to perform exact division? If so, than optimisation of +/\ is also questionable, +/@]\ _1 1 5e_16 5e_16 NB. embarrass idiom recognition _1 0 4.44089e_16 1.11022e_15 +/\ _1 1 5e_16 5e_16 _1 0 5e_16 1e_15 NB. last 2 members differ by 10%! because it may lead to results, which contradict dictionary definition of \ adverb. nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon Nov 23 10:17:31 1998 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Gosi_Helgason?= Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:59:18 -0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE16F2.08D7A700" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE16F2.08D7A700 Samples of a few answers I got from personal postings not sent to the Forum. ------------------------ > The i-Mac will run MS windows emulation - which you'll need to > purchase separately. > Strand should know whether this fully supports J. Would I be able to run Linux on it too? I have a dual-boot on both my PCs. W95 and Linux. It would be good to be able to do i-Mac as well. Would that be called threeal-boot? or trial-boot. > I was surprised that it has no floppy drive, nor any space for > one. Apparently external drives are coming on to the market - Yes I did notice that. Forgot to ask if the CD in it was a Read/Write CD. > ii) superfloppies, but these were unavailable a month ago due to > huge demand in the USA. Is this something like the Zip and Jaz? > d) Apparently the get-around for missing floppies is the good net- > handling power of the i-Mac - home-users swap data with their work- > place servers for storage/recall. > I run on a Mac model G3 that pre-dates slightly the IMac. > It is my understanding that the I-Mac is the same CPU, the > G3, and at the same speed. That is what I heard from the I-Mac salesperson too. > I love the Mac OS, but some > folks who come out of the PC world don't like it. One > complaint I used to hear is that it has no "underlying" OS > (like DOS, for instance). But this is not quit right. > The big difference is that the OS and the windowing system > have been integrated for years, instead of adding > windows on top of DOS. One of the issues I have heard is that the files, charactersets and such are not easily moved between the two and it is not apparent how to work with files in the mac for a person used to PC and Unix. > I think that you will find > that J will run beautifully on your Mac. > The J for Mac is always a "backport" of the PC version, > and does not fit smoothly with the way everything else > works on the Mac. > J does not spawn a > task on the Mac (like the "host" command does on > unix and PC). > Other programmers > do it. For example MS Word can call up Equation Editor. > I downloaded J4.01 the other day, and it did run. > I have no help files for J on the Mac. I have not tried the i-Mac but > I plan to get one shortly. > I have not tried any new J on the Mac so I can not tell if the > new stuff will run on it. > I stopped using J on the Mac because it is so much better supported > on the PC. I get the feeling that they only port some of the options > on teh Mac and I have no idea if it is feesible to do anything with > J on teh i-Mac I heerd that it is not cleer how to install emulations > on the Mac and everything may not work. Regarding running J on the i-Mac (not MS-Windows emulation) then I wonder how you do windows, read and write files, do sockets? Is there a problem with charactersets or formats of files between the i-Mac and the PC and/or Unix? What are the limitations? Can you do windows, read and write files, do sockets? I would like to see all issues with the I-Mac presented to the forum. I believe the I-Mac is going to be a trendsetter and will put Apple back on the map. J needs to be present and active in there. Not just as an afterthought as some people have indicated. /Gosi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE16F2.08D7A700 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ABwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADACAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEUAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABmb3J1bUBqc29mdHdhcmUuY29tAFNNVFAAZm9ydW1AanNvZnR3YXJlLmNvbQAAAAAe AAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAFAAAAGZvcnVtQGpzb2Z0d2FyZS5jb20AAwAVDAEA AAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAFgAAACdmb3J1bUBqc29mdHdhcmUuY29tJwAAAAIBCzABAAAAGQAA AFNNVFA6Rk9SVU1ASlNPRlRXQVJFLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAA AAAAAhk0AQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgBBIABABIAAABSRTogSmZv cnVtOiBJLU1hYwBFBQEFgAMADgAAAM4HCwAXAA4AOwASAAEAUwEBIIADAA4AAADOBwsAFwAOACcA HQABAEoBAQmAAQAhAAAAOUFBNDU2MjBFMDgyRDIxMThCOUEyQ0ExRkZDMDAwMDAADQcBA5AGAEwL AAASAAAACwAjAAEAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQABAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQJF02PEWvgEeAHAAAQAA ABIAAABSRTogSmZvcnVtOiBJLU1hYwAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+FvHYYyBWpJyC4BHSi5osof/A AAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAQAAAAZ29zaUBjZW50cnVtLmlzAAMABhA6 ZFmkAwAHEKIJAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABTQU1QTEVTT0ZBRkVXQU5TV0VSU0lHT1RGUk9NUEVSU09O QUxQT1NUSU5HU05PVFNFTlRUT1RIRUZPUlVNLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tVEhFSS1N QUNXSUxMUlVOAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA2wkAANcJAADoFgAATFpGde2v1uT/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC 8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EWDzI1 NQKACoENsQtgQG5nMTAzOQr0bHhpMzYN8AtVFFEL8mMbAEAGAW0LUAeRb2Yg2GEgZgfRAHF3BJAE IDBJIGdvBUADUiBwbxyhAiAHQB2AbxPAC4BnHQQgbh0REbACMCB0b4IgCoV0aGUgRgWw6HVtLgqF LSD/IWQfZv0KhT4K4RpLE1AdEAWQBUCLI34bElQf8WktTQDQ9yN/JIUD8GwDICBAA6AF4WED8G5k b3cEIBPgdZ8LYB5QAiAg4CgwaGkRcFQgeQhgJyhhbgngZN8fOSUPGzAjbyR2cAhwEXH/EbAr/xsh LU8khRGwCrEpwPBlbHkuK48snzDvMHBcU3QyQCkgHuBoCGBs/StAax6wB+AqQBHAH/Afwp8EABwQ KaAygB7gdXAeIPsAIAQgSjKgMrgLGRqpOTX2VzaTHOBiIAABoBuQHzJlKJJMC4B1eBvAA6BpuR8i bz85NRzgEYB2PCHoIGR1B0AtBuAdESnxEwbgH+AgbThAUENz8TKgVzk1HFErQD0DMqD+SSghNpM8 ER0ABHAfdh9QvzwZKTAmZS8QKDAycGwyp+87lB/gKcA8AmMHQBuQRbL7CdE/JT8bwB/BByI/QyB2 vzk7Gd8B0DRfJGgc0XdEcf04YHITUAQARpNF8T2RLwHfHqEcEBWgOIA4QGQFED6wfiwwcB6wBcAA cDhBOWBjfyAAAhBI2TofSw8kdgIgZT05AUE4gArAHwE4MWV4/xPQBKAd8U8TBCBUcUZAA3CfHmE9 Uh9BH+IAwHJrEcBvKhE5PzpPWAJZB5Ec4GT+aStAHrEqYDxxReEyoCAhdx0CH0EvEGsmYBvgH+JD XkQmYD1zTNIcAFJHAGT8L1cFEBPQXOFIf0mPUa/jUr9McmlpKThSBJBOo+UIkHNPYWJ1HyEf8C8h /xyRIAAooD6gC3ALYDxSHAD3BGACMCqAYR0APvE8c1C/x2D/Yg8wcGh1ZyAADbCPA4ErQF0hH+JV U0EgdvtYTzq8SQQgN7MdwAeAN7FvVnFgAFdwH9NaBSBA00p8YXo99l8/YE9ozyRJZM9jUFQ6H+Jq wHQtCsAIYP82QVByVlAEEFZiY8YmYG6C/0I0KwF2gGdfcx90LxGAKSD/ciBWcR4gHJEbwh/iJnQi YHM2gAeALXURsByxA+BhfXBAZCnAHAAD8D/xH+Fp/wXAQcBXYHlfem97fx2AC2D/UEF+0T6wHLFQ chPABbBmoPxlLxYQRlI5D4FfIv8kDX8c4CiSKfEcACaSBGIDIEe+M0XEE1B+oH9xB5FzciD0Z2h1 5kkmkWwMci+B//+JLk3hBCBAIXbRHKEBkCkg31ZiRdONEyaDeGVzG2Bc0fxQVU9gH+GAz49vkH+L YP9PYDYykxWUU1AQKyEyqYa//zraJjBN0kSBReI+cUcACyD/HTSTSJRQG5EdlD2yXr+OP/+WH5cv JNEc4BWgPrEf4iaS/E9TT2Bkcm7ylS+h36Lv+QIQbGucwh9QVjEgAAhgPz+BXJRAUIBiNrEpMG4n 7wVAb5M9kIXxTysQpb+mz/+n31YxC1OJ8n7BK0OdUnhU3U3bIpITMoAeYSKk4axP661frm8ob5NE pPJQcguA65JiUEAphfFCZIM30TfR+R6ycXU9kQUQjLFsCLOv97S/JHYmMmKMoFqBDdBlIf+3gbD3 H+Kk8EDTH+IpBFZi/nMTs7mvur+7zz6TPBAJ8N9dERPQCcAyUXb0eZ1hZDH3tzJd8RvDZJKjwH/B j8Kf/ykGVqNwQBvRtqGZ75r/y3T/rBF9dwQQClAcwj6TnVS+Cv5mAxBkIhFyANBVERGxVdH9NkJ1 EXDLZVXyHrJHAACQ7zgxBGA+sEICdByQxBEf4v/UIFwhazKRkx6yf0BUZH5h/wfgH0iAcn+00HNr VgDBUGPfHACe9bA2qoE2MlUDAEFg/5+voL/Hz8jfTJJvMlxgRdP/KqEoNNBwKSDGz91P3l9F0/ZK KDg8EGFkgAaQOBMp8f8qoQXBjXGGD8xf25/i30w2/+F/4oMmIOn/fDUgAOSQUHKfk6UHQEzQE7Ab 8SJiANC+aziSstCqGISCKeEs5ub/AZHrj+KPJEk2MikwB5Eesv/QcB7RBGA/4Tgxf8ZMwVTR/YSB eW80MnARsPHf8u/z//8n9ICBylSkhGwP5+/o//4f//qf6t8vreSQ9ZMBrySUHrP9/XB3ioHhHwD/ BV/5Iw5A71xR/Ji2NR/iIjaAE8Cy0P9WMWsT9ZMp8f1PB98I7wn4/yig2uBA00BQt7IOb/8fAC/7 D08kK083YyRxxIEMwByh/wcfFV8Wb/kjQ+Kr0iAhVOH/lGBKIKSRvtA7kJ2BhbCKgLeFsmVQcEBF uPApxEVakP+FIbmfSqQfjxmfGq9acSlADm6kIF4AKzFKNC4w34fwk0I/4TeBf3B5mHQ9kf9akiiR MqAf/w3PL8sqA4gX9z5mTnGTUGxwQNf0UHLkkP/8mSsIW/FNUEaTfdZkcYgX/z5wSiFWs3ZhU9I2 YjiwMoH/2xwv0i2tT9J5INaQLKpu4f8+YR3CLfNEsVx1Kngz4oUQ/nW9cOSoPWNE5y9phRFO0P/Z 8X7AVmI0K0YghbB+wdU1/TTxbdIR0/JVEWNi8FLZ8P+IF/yVQFAtYjCS0DNG8HzT/5L25eKM4fBS buN9dk7AHsL7GHY+VGX3IAtS0cIrGFqg/8XgXHLVRD/B01Bl4taxHAH/T9FvNNejiBcspEOBLtSd MvdVIE2YuIVj0JAlsdZ1tzP/5NFrAOWwHrNCqAra0cL3yb9rEDPBuMGActsNXeBnKLHfVmLlAdrQ Ooou1CgGYh1A/C1XygVLx2NQk0GKgM7g/4BwkiIoJdZy4EIcAcn1mHD3vaDF8dHCd15D0HUcAW7w +/Aw0YE/bmRlItlBAqBl4f/AZtej0Ozu0SxhaxBbQsYw39f01Aou1L722lQv7tAoJfvawnDdV5zy 0rKTQhRgd1D3t2BCY3DdQx3RVZ9Wr1e9/9scVGLlsNoAb5RYAZmw72H/NfHOhPb3k4SL4fiQxFHa A/PQM+7QdW2Nls7gw/AUYP/3wZM8eNCSs9bAw/DZMTNAvb2wZNFxPRJkg+TCcLgBv3VxRhHwEigl /JVb0HDmsP8EgHkg2fB4cW3DagWYhALgXmnDwdhUvaDmsE64wWrPO8D1MdGiiAZhZtFBWmD/qdC5 YXTCQYOe8EJARhHDoz3KAWmFsMSx/T8nfyAvqkcMUGl4VX14UAB7cAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAA QAAHMKAkxhPvFr4BQAAIMKAkxhPvFr4BHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAC+fg== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE16F2.08D7A700-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon Nov 23 11:10:33 1998 Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:48:27 -0600 (CST) From: John Howland Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac In-Reply-To: <01BE16F2.087C1980@geisli-37.centrum.is> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by lists.interlog.com id KAA25513 On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Bj�rn Gosi Helgason wrote: > Samples of a few answers I got from personal postings not sent to > the Forum. > ------------------------ > > > The i-Mac will run MS windows emulation - which you'll need to > > purchase separately. > > Strand should know whether this fully supports J. > > Would I be able to run Linux on it too? I use Linuxppc on PowerMac's. At this point (with recent Kernals) Linuxppc boots on an iMac, but there is no USB support for USB keyboards and mice, so you have to access it via net or terminal. There is lots of work going on in the USB area, so this situation is temporary and even this report may be out of date. John > I have a dual-boot on both my PCs. W95 and Linux. It would be good > to be able to do i-Mac as well. > Would that be called threeal-boot? or trial-boot. > > > I was surprised that it has no floppy drive, nor any space for > > one. Apparently external drives are coming on to the market - > > Yes I did notice that. Forgot to ask if the CD in it was a Read/Write CD. > > > ii) superfloppies, but these were unavailable a month ago due to > > huge demand in the USA. > > Is this something like the Zip and Jaz? > > > d) Apparently the get-around for missing floppies is the good net- > > handling power of the i-Mac - home-users swap data with their work- > > place servers for storage/recall. > > > I run on a Mac model G3 that pre-dates slightly the IMac. > > It is my understanding that the I-Mac is the same CPU, the > > G3, and at the same speed. > > That is what I heard from the I-Mac salesperson too. > > > I love the Mac OS, but some > > folks who come out of the PC world don't like it. One > > complaint I used to hear is that it has no "underlying" OS > > (like DOS, for instance). But this is not quit right. > > The big difference is that the OS and the windowing system > > have been integrated for years, instead of adding > > windows on top of DOS. > > One of the issues I have heard is that the files, charactersets and such > are not easily moved between the two and it is not apparent how to > work with files in the mac for a person used to PC and Unix. > > > I think that you will find > > that J will run beautifully on your Mac. > > > The J for Mac is always a "backport" of the PC version, > > and does not fit smoothly with the way everything else > > works on the Mac. > > > J does not spawn a > > task on the Mac (like the "host" command does on > > unix and PC). > > Other programmers > > do it. For example MS Word can call up Equation Editor. > > > I downloaded J4.01 the other day, and it did run. > > > I have no help files for J on the Mac. I have not tried the i-Mac but > > I plan to get one shortly. > > > I have not tried any new J on the Mac so I can not tell if the > > new stuff will run on it. > > > I stopped using J on the Mac because it is so much better supported > > on the PC. I get the feeling that they only port some of the options > > on teh Mac and I have no idea if it is feesible to do anything with > > J on teh i-Mac I heerd that it is not cleer how to install emulations > > on the Mac and everything may not work. > > Regarding running J on the i-Mac (not MS-Windows emulation) then I wonder > how you do windows, read and write files, do sockets? Is there a problem > with charactersets or formats of files between the i-Mac and the PC and/or > Unix? > > What are the limitations? > > Can you do windows, read and write files, do sockets? > > I would like to see all issues with the I-Mac presented to the forum. > I believe the I-Mac is going to be a trendsetter and will put Apple back > on the map. J needs to be present and active in there. Not just as an > afterthought as some people have indicated. > > /Gosi > ________________________________________________________________ John E. Howland url: http://www.cs.trinity.edu/~jhowland/ Computer Science email: jhowland@ariel.cs.trinity.edu Trinity University voice: (210) 736-7480 715 Stadium Drive fax: (210) 736-7477 San Antonio, Texas 78212-7200 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon Nov 23 13:00:37 1998 Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:38:12 -0500 From: Roger Hui Subject: Jforum: Re: usefulness of . References: <36543E67.64CA@Interlog.Com> Andrew Nikitin writes on Monday, November 22: > Trying to determine actual order of !n ways involved i have composed verb > > detperm=. ,/ . (,&.>) > > and applied it to ... The ordinary determinant -/ .* A, -/*/p{A, is equivalent to +/ (_1^sgn(q)) * */ q{A where sgn(q) is the parity of permutation q, the parity of the number of pairwise interchanges necessary to convert the identity permutation to the permutation q. > I was slightly surprized that this order is the same, as generated by A. verb. > (Of course, there is nothing unexpected in this fact. BTW, maybe this method > can be used as one more way to produce table of permutation in lexical order > is APLs without A., but with monadic . (are there any?).) This is an inefficient way of generating the table of permutations. Compare it to the following methods: grow=: [: ,/ 0&,.@:>: {"2 1 \:"1@=@(_1&,)@{. p0=: i.@! A. i. p1=: 1 0&$`([: ,/ 0&,.@($:&.(<:"_)) {"2 1 \:"1@=@i.) @. * p2=: grow^:(]`(1 0&$)) p3=: 3 : 'grow^:y. i.1 0' p4=: 3 : 0 z=.1 0$j=.0 while. y.>:j=.1+j do. z=.,/(0,.1+z){"2 1\:"1=i.j end. ) > > Note that currently, only -/ .* on extended integer or rational arguments > > executes in polynomial time and linear space; all other case take > > at least !n time and space. > > Why doubles are not included in this list? Because of impossibility to > perform exact division? If so, than optimisation of +/\ is also questionable, a. Numerical properties of the floating point determinant are quite subtle, much more so than for simple operations. b. Floating point determinant computations are available elsewhere (e.g. in LAPACK). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed Nov 25 12:03:25 1998 Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:15:25 -0600 From: Don Guinn Subject: Re: Jforum: I-Mac References: <01BE162A.B15D45B0@n211.skima.is> <3658FDF3.78136263@balcab.ch> If you are referring to "Advanced Windows" from Microsoft Press by Jeffrey Richter then there is a new third edition of the book. It has been updated for W95 and NT4.0. I found the book at Micro Center in Houston Texas. david alis wrote: > Amazon.com is reporting that the book reference in the mapped files Lab is out > of print... > Any suggestions for alternatives? > David Alis > ================= > " For more information use Win32 reference materials. 'Advanced > Windows : The Developer's Guide to the Win32 API for Windows > NT 3.5 and Windows 95' by Jeffrey Richter from Microsoft > Press is recommended." > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed Nov 25 22:08:44 1998 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Gosi_Helgason?= Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:00:12 -0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE18E8.7D8B19E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE18E8.7D8B19E0 From: John Howland[SMTP:jhowland@ariel.cs.trinity.edu] > I use Linuxppc on PowerMac's. At this point (with recent Kernals) > Linuxppc boots on an iMac, but there is no USB support for USB > keyboards and mice, so you have to access it via net or terminal. > There is lots of work going on in the USB area, so this situation > is temporary and even this report may be out of date. Where do you get Linuxppc? If I understand you correctly then PowerMac is the same as the iMac and you can not use Linuxppc on this achine standalone but that is probably solved soon. Have you run J on Linuxppc on the iMac? Do you run J on the iMac under the native OS or under Windows emulation on the iMac? or all three? I am most interested in finding out if this is a machine worth buying and I will not unless I can run J on it. /Gosi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE18E8.7D8B19E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhcCAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AHwCAAACAAAADQAAAAMAADAGAAAACwAPDgEAAAACAf8PAQAAAEMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAQBiamFybnRoQGlzbWVubnQuaXMAU01UUABiamFybnRoQGlzbWVubnQuaXMAAB4AAjAB AAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAATAAAAYmphcm50aEBpc21lbm50LmlzAAADABUMAgAAAAIB +Q8BAAAAQwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAABAGJqYXJudGhAaXNtZW5udC5pcwBTTVRQ AGJqYXJudGhAaXNtZW5udC5pcwAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABUAAAAnYmphcm50aEBpc21lbm50 LmlzJwAAAAACAQswAQAAABgAAABTTVRQOkJKQVJOVEhASVNNRU5OVC5JUwADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoA AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAABgwAAAADAAAwBwAAAAsADw4AAAAAAgH/DwEAAABFAAAAAAAAAIEr H6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAZm9ydW1AanNvZnR3YXJlLmNvbQBTTVRQAGZvcnVtQGpzb2Z0d2Fy ZS5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABQAAABmb3J1bUBqc29mdHdhcmUu Y29tAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABYAAAAnZm9ydW1AanNvZnR3YXJlLmNvbScAAAAC AQswAQAAABkAAABTTVRQOkZPUlVNQEpTT0ZUV0FSRS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB 9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAc9fAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAS AAAAUkU6IEpmb3J1bTogSS1NYWMARQUBBYADAA4AAADOBwsAGQAKAAAADAADABIBASCAAwAOAAAA zgcLABkACgAAAAwAAwASAQEJgAEAIQAAAEE4OTU1MTc5NDc4NEQyMTE4QjlBMkNBMUZGQzAwMDAw AAYHAQOQBgCkBAAAEgAAAAsAIwABAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAQAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AMAFOmRa GL4BHgBwAAEAAAASAAAAUkU6IEpmb3J1bTogSS1NYWMAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvhhaZCl5UZWs hEcR0ouaLKH/wAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEAAAAGdvc2lAY2VudHJ1 bS5pcwADAAYQxdwVGwMABxCEAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAARlJPTTpKT0hOSE9XTEFORFNNVFA6SkhP V0xBTkRAQVJJRUxDU1RSSU5JVFlFRFVJVVNFTElOVVhQUENPTlBPV0VSTUFDU0FUVEhJU1BPSU5U KFdJVEhSRUNFTlRLRVJOQUxTKQAAAAACAQkQAQAAADMDAAAvAwAA0wUAAExaRnU6kCAH/wAKAQ8C FQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqA CM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYEBuZzEwMzkK/zFWNgwhE1BvE9BjBUBGPQNhOgrhGesa1gyCIEpE b2gDoEhvdxjxZABbU01UUDpqaA0d1EAKwAiQbC5jc4wudAUQAwB0eS4JgIR1XQqLbGkzNg3wlwtV FFEL8mMAQCA+G6cjIhUa1kkgdRGwIEyBC4B1eHBwYyACIKwgUB3QBJBNANAnH5AmIBSwBUB0aAQA IHC2bwuABUAoA/AmcCAWEDZjCfAFQEsEkQdAcyn/CochvyLPGtYktwbgGvAEIKslQQORaSXBLCwg dSZSBwSQJJAmkW5vIFVTsEIgc3UlABWxIAIQHwXALlEofymPKp9rZXmPBuALEQQgHgEgbWknoFUt MHMuMHkIYCARgHZ9JJB0LjAA0CegBBEf8CB+dgcwLhARwCUwBcAT0HK7M5AoIS4vjzCfMa9ULaYj FaAsYmYgdwWwayD6ZybRZyUyC4Atgi5DCsAcZWEz0yZzAJB0dWH8dGkCIDbPN9847yaRE9HrLsEK wHkzQ2U0gDvyJpHvFhAuwwDAQeBiJJAIYDXhtTrgZD2wZTa/C9MgCo/VPsxXLaNkNARnNdEktvY/ ReVF5Uk64CRRHhAEkJ8TwDNSNCIFoSeBdGxB4M8tkSVYQSM8IXNhB4AssP9NJCzyM0NF5UtTA5Eu IAVA/yR+JnMA0CaANcAugEsCB0C/AiAkkC1UPbAt4hrRYgGg90wBReUz8Gw0gDNwM/ACINtEdkXl SDRyNCJySqAdYO8lMlBMTiRJZkQ0BFZnTgffSqM8AyggPcA0gU8F8EXl2wWxWkRXC4BIMHcEIBPg /nULYD3CV3s18gdAAyAmcNcJ0UluLLBtM4BvE8A70d82MQeQE9AzcDvhZlyRO3P/LWEGkCZkUSJD QVFkOwEmcPtF5S1QeTtyM1IkUAPwXrH5T8NubDUSJFBPglZnH/DpVO0vR2CAaUl8ReUVMQIAaiAA AwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzDgySd6VBi+AUAACDDgpkFkWhi+AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAA+V0= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE18E8.7D8B19E0-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu Nov 26 01:50:45 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:28:12 +0100 From: "david alis" Subject: Jforum: J and HP-UX References: <01BE162A.B15D45B0@n211.skima.is> <3658FDF3.78136263@balcab.ch> <365C2D1D.D8349FB2@hal-pc.org> Where should I look to get information about versions of J that run on HP-UX? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu Nov 26 02:49:58 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:27:39 -0500 From: Fraser Jackson Subject: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lists.interlog.com id CAA05013 In a script the following will generate the functions a and b a =: 3 : 0 y.^2 ) b =: 3 : 0 y.^3 I was surprised that the last definition did not need a final right parenthesis, contrary to the Dictionary IIH. Is this deliberate or a consequence of some other definition. Fraser Jackson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu Nov 26 08:06:09 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:47:30 +0100 From: "david alis" Subject: Re: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition References: <199811260227_MC2-6193-B512@compuserve.com> Maybe one could chain scripts together.. script1=. 'c:\script1.ijs' script2=. 'c:\script2.ijs' script3=. 'c:\script3.ijs' (0!:1) script1;script2;script3 so that the files are joined together and then executed as a script. Instead of as now, where the files are executed together, but in an order which is unspecified. Such a device could help, albeit in a minor way, program organisation. (Perhaps the rank of (0!:0) should be 0 instead of _ (0!:0) b. 0 _ _ _ ) Fraser Jackson wrote: > In a script the following will generate the functions a and b > a =: 3 : 0 > y.^2 > ) > > b =: 3 : 0 > y.^3 > > I was surprised that the last definition did not need a final right > parenthesis, contrary to the Dictionary IIH. Is this deliberate or a > consequence of some other definition. > > Fraser Jackson > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Thu Nov 26 09:09:01 1998 Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac It would be a mistake to not buy an iMac because the mklinux does not run on it yet. J runs under MacOS. I think I told you that. Moving J files on and off the Mac is not a hard thing to do. I move files daily between UNIX systems and my Mac sytsems at home and at work. You know that you can move files between UNIX and PC. In fact, FTP works beautifully between all three and it resolves the differences between the end of line markers, CR, LF, and CR-LF. There are other differences to think about. The Mac uses ":" to mark a node in a pathname, where unix uses "/" and DOS uses "\". All these problems are easily solved. Lee From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu Nov 26 09:10:33 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:45:13 -0500 From: David Ness Subject: Re: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition References: <199811260227_MC2-6193-B512@compuserve.com> How did you conclude that the final right parenthesis was *not* needed? (i.e. what did you type following the code you presented that convinced you that everything was ok). Fraser Jackson wrote: > > In a script the following will generate the functions a and b > a =: 3 : 0 > y.^2 > ) > > b =: 3 : 0 > y.^3 > > I was surprised that the last definition did not need a final right > parenthesis, contrary to the Dictionary IIH. Is this deliberate or a > consequence of some other definition. > > Fraser Jackson > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Thu Nov 26 10:04:28 1998 Subject: Re: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition It is a script, right? Perhaps J, on coming to the end of a script, closes some of the things that are open. > How did you conclude that the final right parenthesis was *not* > needed? (i.e. what did you type following the code you presented > that convinced you that everything was ok). > > > Fraser Jackson wrote: > > > > In a script the following will generate the functions a and b > > a =: 3 : 0 > > y.^2 > > ) > > > > b =: 3 : 0 > > y.^3 > > > > I was surprised that the last definition did not need a final right > > parenthesis, contrary to the Dictionary IIH. Is this deliberate or a > > consequence of some other definition. > > > > Fraser Jackson > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu Nov 26 10:22:57 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:04:28 -0500 (EST) From: Lee Dickey Subject: Re: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition It is a script, right? Perhaps J, on coming to the end of a script, closes some of the things that are open. > How did you conclude that the final right parenthesis was *not* > needed? (i.e. what did you type following the code you presented > that convinced you that everything was ok). > > > Fraser Jackson wrote: > > > > In a script the following will generate the functions a and b > > a =: 3 : 0 > > y.^2 > > ) > > > > b =: 3 : 0 > > y.^3 > > > > I was surprised that the last definition did not need a final right > > parenthesis, contrary to the Dictionary IIH. Is this deliberate or a > > consequence of some other definition. > > > > Fraser Jackson > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu Nov 26 10:32:16 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:16:51 -0500 From: David Ness Subject: Re: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition References: <199811261504.KAA05069@math.uwaterloo.ca> Lee Dickey wrote: > > It is a script, right? > Perhaps J, on coming to the end of a script, closes some > of the things that are open. > I guess so. I experimented with a file that terminates in a ^Z and it appears that `J' treats this as an extra line-feed which is then followed by an assumed `)'. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From gosi@centrum.is Thu Nov 26 12:36:36 1998 From: Bjorn Helgason Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:40:05 -0000 From: Lee Dickey [SMTP:ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca] > It would be a mistake to not buy an iMac because > the mklinux does not run on it yet. I am thinking about buying an iMac. I want to make sure I get as much as I need before I buy it because I know from experience that the salespeople are much more willing to do something for you before you buy than after. The more I include in the original order the less individualk components are going to cost. > J runs under MacOS. I think I told you that. You did. I want to hear from as many people as possible and I want to hear about any eventual shortcomings so either I or someone else can work on fixing it. > Moving J files on and off the Mac is not a hard thing to do. Good > I move files daily between UNIX systems and my Mac sytsems at > home and at work. I am more interested in the moveing of files between the Mac, Linux and Windows on the same machine and also of problems with charactersets which has always been a problem in Iceland. > You know that you can move files between > UNIX and PC. > In fact, FTP works beautifully between all three and it > resolves the differences between the end of line markers, > CR, LF, and CR-LF. There are other differences to think about. > The Mac uses ":" to mark a node in a pathname, where unix > uses "/" and DOS uses "\". All these problems are easily solved. Thanks I like to see more discussions about this in the forum /Gosi From CHAA006@vms.rhbnc.ac.uk Thu Nov 26 12:59:00 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:58:53 GMT From: Philip Taylor (RHBNC) CC: CHAA006@vms.rhbnc.ac.uk Subject: RE: Link missing Many thanks, Lee; the problem lies in the "vms" component, which is taking you to a non-current web server. Please use the URL www.rhbnc.ac.uk, and all should be well. If you'd like a preview of what our site _might_ look like (and if you are configured for 1024 x 768 : I haven't put in the auto-resize code yet), you might like to look at www1.rhbnc.ac.uk I'd appreciate any comments you may have on it. ** Phil. From ljdickey Thu Nov 26 13:57:37 1998 Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac > From: Bjorn Helgason > To: "'Lee Dickey'" > Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac > Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:40:05 -0000 > > From: Lee Dickey [SMTP:ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca] > > It would be a mistake to not buy an iMac because > > the mklinux does not run on it yet. > > I am thinking about buying an iMac. I want to make sure > I get as much as I need before I buy it because I know > from experience that the salespeople are much more > willing to do something for you before you buy than after. > The more I include in the original order the less individual > components are going to cost. > > > J runs under MacOS. I think I told you that. > You did. I want to hear from as many people as possible and > I want to hear about any eventual shortcomings so either I or > someone else can work on fixing it. > > I am more interested in the moveing of files between > the Mac, Linux and Windows on the same machine and also > of problems with charactersets which has always been a problem > in Iceland. I have no experience moving things from one OS to another on one machine. Just as there are cards with 68000 chips for the PC there are also cards with DOS/Windows for the Mac. However, the iMac is almost certainly not extendable in this way. It is my impression that the iMac has almost no room for any internal expansion. Perhaps there is room for more RAM or VRAM. The other direction is to use software emulation. It is my impression that this is always slower than an appropriate chip set running at the same speed. I have used PCSoft and Virtual PC. I think that both allow Windows 9x and NT, but am not sure about that. Such software emulators do a good job with the basics. I have no experience with how well the handle peripherals, like printers, CDRom, modem, and so on. You might ask about how easy it is to moving from one to another of the various operating systems. (I have no experience with this.) One of the features of unix is that path names are always relative. If I am in directory /u3/ljdickey/J and I fire up J7, for instance, and then aske to read a file called "foo.ijs", the program searches for the file as "/u3/ljdickey/J/foo.ijs". Not so with the Macintosh. I have not figured out a way to do this sort of default path hunting, except to do it (more or less) by hand, by setting a variable "dir" that gives the path from the root to the current directory. There must be a way. I just don't know it. I am discovering the joys of "vim" today. This is the text editor that replaces "vi" in linux. Most linux systems us a soft link from "vi" to "vim" (Vi IMproved). This software has been ported to many platforms. From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu Nov 26 15:18:22 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:01:51 -0500 From: Fraser Jackson Subject: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lists.interlog.com id PAA07385 As you would expect in J, the file origin ( J session manager or other editor) does not matter, but the file content does. What did surprise me was that as Lee Dickey says it appears to have as a default closing an object that I had thought was syntactically incomplete. A multiline comment merely needs to begin comment =: noun define and it will continue to the end of the script. It can contain as many parentheses as you like provided there is no embedded line with a single right parenthesis in the first position. While all of this may be convenient, I think it is more consistent to require the objects to be syntactically complete and generate an error message when they are not. Fraser Jackson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Thu Nov 26 15:48:47 1998 Subject: Re: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition My guess is that Roger will adopt your idea. I once tried to convince roger to accept a line like a =: 'Now is the time by supplying the missing quotation mark. This is done in APL.68000, and I was quite comfortable with it. Roger would not hear of it. Lee From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu Nov 26 18:42:42 1998 Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:29:20 +0100 (MET) From: Martin Neitzel Subject: Re: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition Fraser Jackson: > > While all of this may be convenient, I think it is more consistent to > require the objects to be syntactically complete and generate an error > message when they are not. Yes. I'm not a final authority, but the way I read the DoJ, it's required to close any : 0 with its ')' AND you are supposed to put complete J constructs into a script. In other words, the way I see, it the current implementation is just a bit tolerant towards scripts which are simply wrong. I won't cry foul if the next version suddenly throws an error or dumps core all for such script files. BTW, the "as-defined-from-literal-data" facility : 0 has a known weak point: you cannot nest it naively. For example: someniceverb =: 3 : 0 synonyms =. <;._1 ;._2 (0 : 0) NB. Tabs a-head ! good ,admirable,agreeable,benevolent,capable,cheerful bad ,baleful,base,deleterious,evil,immoral,iniquitous ugly ,deformed,hideous,homely,plain,repellent,repulsive ) foo =. synonyms lookup y. more =. code + here return. bar ) The scanning for the "procedure body" would stop right in the middle. This is unavoidable because its impossible to detect the embedded (0 : 0) script starter. Don't say "J could have an open eye on such en embedded thing" -- we could all outsmart it by disguising it as "(noun define)" or "tabelle wie folgt". The J "script scanner" (remember the subject topic? good.) does not provide a built-in quoting mechanism to allow something like this: someverb=: 3 : 0 text=. 0 : 0 data data data data )) <-- protected initial ')', will be restored sentence one when the script is scanned. sentence two ) Should J behave this way? One could argue either way. I'm happy with the way it is. I am free to come up with my own script protector. Then I could end up with: someverb=: 3 : parstripped text=. 0 : 0 data data data data )) sentence one sentence two ) (I think this week's homework assignment is clear.) J's scanner and its stopping on ')' lines was also a major issue for J script files with Unix and whenever you consider that it might be just great to be able to use control words "outside of verb definitions". As in: if. running_under_windows then. notify =: wdshow else. notify =: 1!:2&2 end. Just like source conditional with preprocessor directives, see? Well, the standard J library actually uses some simple construct to get to that effect. You can take a peek at its solution. You can also think hard about any interactions of toplevel control words as a built-in feature with the original subject topic. Remember the subject topic? Good. Martin PS: Since we are on a mailing list here, I don't want to close without the little note that the following line consisting of a dot . was transfered as two dots when this message was passed from mailserver to mailserver via SMTP until it found its way to you. Guess why. Did work, dinnit? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri Nov 27 10:14:02 1998 Date: Fri, 27 Nov 98 07:49:39 MST In-Reply-To: <199811262329.AAA12076@ohura.gaertner.de> From: Joey Tuttle Subject: Re: Jforum: Termination of explicit definition At 0:29 +0100 11/27/98, Martin Neitzel wrote: >Fraser Jackson: >> >> While all of this may be convenient, I think it is more consistent to >> require the objects to be syntactically complete and generate an error >> message when they are not. > >Yes. I'm not a final authority, but the way I read the DoJ, >it's required to close any : 0 with its ')' AND you are supposed >to put complete J constructs into a script. In other words, the >way I see, it the current implementation is just a bit tolerant towards >scripts which are simply wrong. I won't cry foul if the next version >suddenly throws an error or dumps core all for such script files. > I wasted a fair bit of time (and wasted some of Roger's time with silly questions) over the subject issue. I had a script that was used two different ways (by being loaded, or by being infixed in a datastream) - it worked in the first case but not in the second, and it was not at all obvious (to me) what my problem was... Certainly it was not my intent to "take advantage of this feature" and I would have been happier if the error of my ways had been pointed out. Or, since I don't like/appreciate even so much help as syntax/spelling checks on ending definitions, I would have been happy if it had failed in both cases without telling me the reason - since I had to figure it out on my own in any case... I won't even start on my feelings about ^Z, but it is enough to say that as a Unix user, I don't have kind words for it or 16 bit line-end characters. Joey.Tuttle@hexagon.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From gosi@centrum.is Fri Nov 27 11:14:34 1998 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Gosi_Helgason?= Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:44:11 -0000 Return-Receipt-To: > I have no experience moving things from one OS to another > on one machine. Just as there are cards with 68000 chips > for the PC there are also cards with DOS/Windows for the Mac. > However, the iMac is almost certainly not extendable in this > way. It is my impression that the iMac has almost no room > for any internal expansion. Perhaps there is room for more > RAM or VRAM. I was not really meaning to have different processors in the same machine even if that is an interesting thing to do. I have now Windows and Linux and it is quite a number of options how to format the disks I use in the Zip-drive as well as the disks in the machines. Linux can read and write most types but the others are not so flexible. Let me nam a few examples. Dos, W95, WNT, Linux native, Linux Swap FAT, NTFS, FAT32, Compressed various types and of course files in Word, Excel, and all kinds of specially formatted files. When you send files from one environment to the other you need applications that can interpret what is in the files. There are various charactersets and all kinds of control characters. I have heard that the Mac stuff is different from all of the above in many ways. What is needed is conversion filters between different disktypes and charactersets. Linux is pretty good at providing options to allow you to do just that. Now there is a problem with the iMac that it does not allow you to get in touch with Zip-,Jaz- or discette-drives at all. That will make it very hard to move any data to or from it. I think I will wait a bit. > The other direction is to use software emulation. It is my impression > that this is always slower than an appropriate chip set running at the > same speed. I have used PCSoft and Virtual PC. I think that both > allow Windows 9x and NT, but am not sure about that. That is one of the things I like to know. Does J run well in such an emulation? > Such software emulators do a good job with the basics. I have no > experience with how well the handle peripherals, like printers, > CDRom, modem, and so on. That is another. > You might ask about how easy it is to moving from one to another > of the various operating systems. (I have no experience with this.) Neither do I that is why I ask. > One of the features of unix is that path names are always relative. > If I am in directory > > /u3/ljdickey/J > > and I fire up J7, for instance, and then aske to read a file called > "foo.ijs", the program searches for the file as "/u3/ljdickey/J/foo.ijs". >Not so with the Macintosh. I have not figured out a way to do this > sort of default path hunting, except to do it (more or less) by > hand, by setting a variable "dir" that gives the path from the root > to the current directory. There must be a way. I just don't > know it. Have you asked ISI or Strand? This sounds like a good candidate for the Forum. > I am discovering the joys of "vim" today. This is the text > editor that replaces "vi" in linux. Most linux systems us a soft > link from "vi" to "vim" (Vi IMproved). This software has been > ported to many platforms. Sounds interesting. I always go back to VI even if I like many of other editors. It is everywhere. /Gosi A foursome was on the last hole and when the last golfer drove off the tee he hooked into a cow pasture. He advised his friends to play through and he would meet them at the clubhouse. They followed the plan and waited for their friend. After a considerable time he appeared dishoveled, bloody, and badly beaten up. They all wanted to know what happened. He explained that he went over to the cow pasture but could not find his ball. He noticed a cow wringing her tail in obvious pain. He went over and lifted her tail and saw a golf ball solidly embedded. It was a yellow Titlist so he knew it was not his. A woman comes out of the bushes apparently searching for her lost golf ball. The helpful male golfer lifted the cow's tail and asked, "Does this look like yours?" and that was the last thing he could remember. From ljdickey Fri Nov 27 13:57:28 1998 Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac > > Now there is a problem with the iMac that it does not allow you to get > in touch > with Zip-,Jaz- or discette-drives at all. That will make it very hard to > move any data to or from it. I think I will wait a bit. Almost all moving of files that I do is by ftp and e-mail. My machine at home and my machine at the office are both on the net. Both have an internet address. That makes it a piece of cake. I do use floppies occasionally, when I give a file to a friend. Yes, disks are faster than using a wire to move files, but I seldom have the need to move a lot of files. If I do, I just start the task and then walk away and do something else, like eat or sleep. > That is one of the things I like to know. Does J run well in such > an emulation? I have not done this. It is simply a matter of need with me. I am not offering a consulting service. I can see that you need to run PC applications, and would want that. But are you not keeping your old PC machine, anyway? > > You might ask about how easy it is to moving from one to another > > of the various operating systems. (I have no experience with this.) > Neither do I that is why I ask. I was not clear here... what I mean is having two OSs on the machine at the same time, and toggleing back and forth. I know (have seen a demo) that it can be done, and is easy. I think that you have to adopt some convention about naming the hard drive so that the C drive on the PC side corresponds to some direcory on the Mac side. > > .... > > and I fire up J7, for instance, and then aske to read a file called > > "foo.ijs", the program searches for the file as "/u3/ljdickey/J/foo.ijs". > > Not so with the Macintosh. I have not figured out a way to do this > > sort of default path hunting, except to do it (more or less) by > > hand, by setting a variable "dir" that gives the path from the root > > to the current directory. There must be a way. I just don't > > know it. > > Have you asked ISI or Strand? No. > This sounds like a good candidate for the Forum. Yes. > > I am discovering the joys of "vim" today. This is the text > > editor that replaces "vi" in linux. Most linux systems us a soft > > link from "vi" to "vim" (Vi IMproved). This software has been > > ported to many platforms. > > Sounds interesting. I always go back to VI even if I like many of other > editors. It is everywhere. Have you seen "vim"? Lee From ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca Fri Nov 27 13:57:29 1998 From: Lee Dickey Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:57:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac > > Now there is a problem with the iMac that it does not allow you to get > in touch > with Zip-,Jaz- or discette-drives at all. That will make it very hard to > move any data to or from it. I think I will wait a bit. Almost all moving of files that I do is by ftp and e-mail. My machine at home and my machine at the office are both on the net. Both have an internet address. That makes it a piece of cake. I do use floppies occasionally, when I give a file to a friend. Yes, disks are faster than using a wire to move files, but I seldom have the need to move a lot of files. If I do, I just start the task and then walk away and do something else, like eat or sleep. > That is one of the things I like to know. Does J run well in such > an emulation? I have not done this. It is simply a matter of need with me. I am not offering a consulting service. I can see that you need to run PC applications, and would want that. But are you not keeping your old PC machine, anyway? > > You might ask about how easy it is to moving from one to another > > of the various operating systems. (I have no experience with this.) > Neither do I that is why I ask. I was not clear here... what I mean is having two OSs on the machine at the same time, and toggleing back and forth. I know (have seen a demo) that it can be done, and is easy. I think that you have to adopt some convention about naming the hard drive so that the C drive on the PC side corresponds to some direcory on the Mac side. > > .... > > and I fire up J7, for instance, and then aske to read a file called > > "foo.ijs", the program searches for the file as "/u3/ljdickey/J/foo.ijs". > > Not so with the Macintosh. I have not figured out a way to do this > > sort of default path hunting, except to do it (more or less) by > > hand, by setting a variable "dir" that gives the path from the root > > to the current directory. There must be a way. I just don't > > know it. > > Have you asked ISI or Strand? No. > This sounds like a good candidate for the Forum. Yes. > > I am discovering the joys of "vim" today. This is the text > > editor that replaces "vi" in linux. Most linux systems us a soft > > link from "vi" to "vim" (Vi IMproved). This software has been > > ported to many platforms. > > Sounds interesting. I always go back to VI even if I like many of other > editors. It is everywhere. Have you seen "vim"? Lee From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri Nov 27 13:57:52 1998 Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:43:40 +0100 (MET) From: Martin Neitzel Subject: Jforum: Script frets Joey Tuttle: > > as a Unix user, I don't have kind words for [^Z] or 16 bit line-end characters. This reminds me to remind the forum of same perhaps not so well-known fact in J. (As evidenced by some unnecessary CR treatment in a recent forum message for splitting a (0 : 0)-derived noun.) J has some sort of convention to use one single linefeed character (ascii 10, aka \n in C or LF in J) and nothing else to end lines in text vectors. Across all platforms. This convention is exemplified by the behaviour a. i. 0 : 0 Joey Tuttle ) 74 111 101 121 10 84 117 116 116 108 101 10 ^^ ^^ even with the Windows implementation. (And in the II.H example.) The second indication is that the utilities "freads" and "fwrites" convert between the host-dependent line ends in files and single-LF frets in the J string. The third indication is are the utilities "clipcopy" and "clippaste". They do the same conversion. I actually don't find a place where it definitely says that 0 : script_from_para_scanning_or_boxed_list_or_cut_vector _always_ returns single LF frets in the noun, but's that what J does, and it does it everywhere across all platforms. I recommend to J programmers to continue along these lines (no pun intended), i.e. to use always LFs for handling multi-line strings (no matter what platform) and to use the "toHOST" and "toJ" stdlib routines when it's necessary to interface to the outside world. Martin PS Chris: toNET and fromNET would be nice additions. The text-oriented internet protocols (such as SMTP) all use CRLF "on the wire". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 02:31:19 1998 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:04:29 +0100 From: "david alis" Subject: Jforum: J Primer References: <199811271843.TAA19800@ohura.gaertner.de> Who wrote the J primer? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 04:22:28 1998 Organization: Voxel From: "Andrew Nikitin" Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:39:01 +0200 (EET) Subject: Jforum: regexp What regular expression matches one of the characters a, [, ]? In perl, for example it would be [a\[\]], but it seems, that in j we are not allowed to escape characters inside []. Some experiments show, that one may use [][a] '[][a]' rxall 'ab[a]c]' +-+-+-+-+-+ |a|[|a|]|]| +-+-+-+-+-+ but not [a\]\[] or [[]a]. '[[]a]' rxall 'ab[a]c]' +---+ |[a]| +---+ '[a\]\[]' rxall 'ab[a]c]' set utility from regbuild script doesn't recognize this case correctly. My proposition is to change it to set=:'['"_ , (\: '^'&i.)@(/: ']['&i.)@~. , ']'"_ Still, even this doesn't handle all cases: single ^ will disappoint it. BTW, is there way to move ][ in front of string, and ^ to the end in one step, not in two, as above implementation does? nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From gosi@centrum.is Sat Nov 28 05:05:33 1998 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Gosi_Helgason?= Subject: RE: Jforum: I-Mac Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:17:37 -0000 Return-Receipt-To: > But are you not keeping your old PC machine, anyway? I am not just thinking about myself. I am interested in getting all these things working to be able to promote J better. >> Have you asked ISI or Strand? >No. >> This sounds like a good candidate for the Forum. >Yes. Will you send it in to the forum? > Have you seen "vim"? No. I am sure I will like it when I do. /Gosi From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 05:41:14 1998 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:29:10 +0100 From: "david alis" Subject: Jforum: Is there an inverse to 5!:2 References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is there an inverse to 5!:2 ? Given an expression such as */@$@] | (5: * i.@$@[) Its boxed display, which has three parts, looks like �����������������������������������������Ŀ ����������������Ŀ�|��������������������Ŀ� �����������Ŀ�@�]�� ��5:�*�������������Ŀ�� ������Ŀ�@�$�� � �� �� � ��������Ŀ�@�[��� ����*�/�� � �� � �� �� � ���i.�@�$�� � ��� �������ٳ � �� � �� �� � ���������ٳ � ��� ������������ٳ � �� �� � ��������������ٳ� �����������������ٳ ���������������������ٳ ������������������������������������������� Using (5!:2) I can separate the expression into its three parts 'A B C' =. 5!:2 <'a' [.a=. (((*/)@$)@]) | ((5:) * ((i.@$)@[)) How do I convert A from a boxed list back into something I can execute? i.e. A_verb =.(((*/)@$)@]) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 06:05:21 1998 References: <365FA07D.ED931CCA@balcab.ch> Organization: Voxel From: "Andrew Nikitin" Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:18:59 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Jforum: J Primer 28-Nov-98 08:04 david alis wrote: > Who wrote the J primer? > Are you starting quiz? And what are prizes? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 06:47:59 1998 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:35:28 +0100 From: "david alis" Subject: Re: Jforum: J Primer References: <365FA07D.ED931CCA@balcab.ch> No..... My mistake...I should have noticed the Author link sooner. I wonder who Eric had in mind as the typical reader when he wrote it? Is there something like a 'Tour of J' (apropos Stroustrup's C++ and/or the K User Guide) in preparation anywhere? Andrew Nikitin wrote: > 28-Nov-98 08:04 david alis wrote: > > Who wrote the J primer? > > > > Are you starting quiz? And what are prizes? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 10:56:14 1998 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:31:14 -0500 From: Roger Hui Subject: Jforum: Re: Is there an inverse to 5!:2 References: <365FD075.3817B041@balcab.ch> David Alis writes on Saturday, November 28: > Is there an inverse to 5!:2 ? No there isn't. One reason is that the boxed representation is not unambiguous. e.g. (,'+')&* and +&* are represented identically. The atomic representation 5!:1 is unambiguous, and 5!:0 is an adverb that produces the represented from the representee. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Sat Nov 28 13:14:20 1998 Subject: Re: Jforum: Is there an inverse to 5!:2 Someone recently posted a message with this stuff in it. > Its boxed display, which has three parts, looks like > ZDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDBDBDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD? > 3ZDDDDDDDDDDDBDBD?3|3ZDDBDBDDDDDDDDDDDDDD?3 > 33ZDDDDDBDBD?3@3]33 335:3*3ZDDDDDDDDBDBD?33 > 333ZDBD?3@3$33 3 33 33 3 33ZDDBDBD?3@3[333 > 3333*3/33 3 33 3 33 33 3 333i.3@3$33 3 333 > 333@DADY3 3 33 3 33 33 3 33@DDADADY3 3 333 > 33@DDDDDADADY3 3 33 33 3 3@DDDDDDDDADADY33 > 3@DDDDDDDDDDDADADY3 3@DDADADDDDDDDDDDDDDDY3 > @DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDADADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDY This is completely unintelligible. I am sure that this must have looked good on someone's screen before it was sent, but it does not look right to me. J is a language that stakes some claim to being a character set that can be used across many platforms. But the above, I am sure, started out with a lot of 8-bit drawing character specific to a particular hardware. > How do I convert A from a boxed list back into something I can execute? I would ask, How does the rest of the world convert this into something that can be read? > From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 13:34:56 1998 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:14:22 -0500 (EST) From: Lee Dickey Subject: Re: Jforum: Is there an inverse to 5!:2 Someone recently posted a message with this stuff in it. > Its boxed display, which has three parts, looks like > ZDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDBDBDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD? > 3ZDDDDDDDDDDDBDBD?3|3ZDDBDBDDDDDDDDDDDDDD?3 > 33ZDDDDDBDBD?3@3]33 335:3*3ZDDDDDDDDBDBD?33 > 333ZDBD?3@3$33 3 33 33 3 33ZDDBDBD?3@3[333 > 3333*3/33 3 33 3 33 33 3 333i.3@3$33 3 333 > 333@DADY3 3 33 3 33 33 3 33@DDADADY3 3 333 > 33@DDDDDADADY3 3 33 33 3 3@DDDDDDDDADADY33 > 3@DDDDDDDDDDDADADY3 3@DDADADDDDDDDDDDDDDDY3 > @DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDADADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDY This is completely unintelligible. I am sure that this must have looked good on someone's screen before it was sent, but it does not look right to me. J is a language that stakes some claim to being a character set that can be used across many platforms. But the above, I am sure, started out with a lot of 8-bit drawing character specific to a particular hardware. > How do I convert A from a boxed list back into something I can execute? I would ask, How does the rest of the world convert this into something that can be read? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 14:32:54 1998 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:18:37 -0500 From: David Ness Subject: Re: Jforum: Is there an inverse to 5!:2 References: <199811281814.NAA25711@math.uwaterloo.ca> Lee Dickey wrote: > > Someone recently posted a message with this stuff in it. > > > > This is completely unintelligible. I am sure that this > must have looked good on someone's screen before it > was sent, but it does not look right to me. > > J is a language that stakes some claim to being > a character set that can be used across many platforms. > But the above, I am sure, started out with a lot > of 8-bit drawing character specific to a particular > hardware. > > > > How do I convert A from a boxed list back into something I can execute? > > I would ask, How does the rest of the world convert this > into something that can be read? > One of the things that J *can't* do, it seems to me, is to know what you are going to use to look at something. You may choose an ASCII only reader with a limited number of monospaced fonts. I may choose something with proportional spacing and no graphical characters. What looks good one place will probably not look good in the other. Indeed, many things may look bad both places on only a very few will end up looking good both places. My guess is that the best compromise is to either send a binary picture (forbidden on lots of UseNet) or send a specification of the `input source' and let the picture get generated by the reader. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 15:11:58 1998 Delivered-To: fixup-forum@jsoftware.com@fixme Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:56:29 -0800 From: greg heil Subject: Re: Jforum: boxing References: <199811281814.NAA25711@math.uwaterloo.ca> <36604C8D.F886D28C@Home.Com> David Ness wrote: > My guess is that the best compromise is to either send a binary picture (forbidden on lots of UseNet) or send a specification of the `input source' and let the picture get generated by the reader. Short of everyone switching over to the monospace.com font for their fixed font (recommended btw) the courteous thing to do would be to use the ascii box characters (a radio button in the "edit | configure | view" dialog box.) for composing mail messages. Prolly right up there with not using html, or not broadcasting gifs ;-) greg heil mailto:gheil@acm.org http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 17:19:01 1998 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:59:50 -0500 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: J Primer References: <199811271843.TAA19800@ohura.gaertner.de> <365FA07D.ED931CCA@balcab.ch> The title page of my copy lists the author as Eric B. Iverson. So does the page "author" hyperlinked to the Help system title page for the Primer. david alis wrote: > > Who wrote the J primer? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -- Murray Eisenberg Internet: murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. Voice: 413-545-2859 (W) University of Massachusetts 413-549-1020 (H) Amherst, MA 01003 Fax: 413-545-1801 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat Nov 28 19:19:37 1998 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 98 16:58:45 MST In-Reply-To: <199811281814.NAA25711@math.uwaterloo.ca> From: Joey Tuttle Subject: Re: Jforum: Is there an inverse to 5!:2 At 13:14 -0500 11/28/98, Lee Dickey wrote: >J is a language that stakes some claim to being >a character set that can be used across many platforms. > I would ask, How does the rest of the world convert this > into something that can be read? Hear hear! It is amazing how easy it is to create stuff that is difficult/impossible to use in a discussion. While I think that "box drawing characters" may look "nice" on some displays, I really prefer to stick to - | and + since they look pretty good on many different media (at least you can see the content). Providing, of course, one uses a monospaced font... I am also "amused" that, through the wonders of True Type, lessons learned over 500 years ago have been forgotten. I speak of the fact that I have seen several TT fonts where the counting numbers are not of uniform width... Makes it hard to display a table that lines up! I continue to laugh each time the subject repeats in CLA - after all, everyone uses displays that can show any glyph, what can be the problem??? Of course, this problem is not restricted to things like APL (and J with box chars) - I have been amazed at how difficult it is to provide something like a "chat room" that can deal with conventional math notation. I agree with what - At 11:56 -0800 11/28/98, greg heil wrote: >.... the courteous thing to do >would be to use the ascii box characters for composing >mail messages. Prolly right up there with not using html, >or not broadcasting gifs ;-) Again - Hear hear!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun Nov 29 07:15:28 1998 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:59:58 +0100 From: "david alis" Subject: Jforum: Is there an inverse to 5!:2 was the wrong question References: <365FD075.3817B041@balcab.ch> <36601742.47AB@Interlog.Com> > Roger Hui wrote: > David Alis writes on Saturday, November 28: > > > Is there an inverse to 5!:2 ? > > No there isn't. One reason is that the boxed representation is not unambiguous. > e.g. (,'+')&* and +&* are represented identically. The atomic representation 5!:1 > is unambiguous, and 5!:0 is an adverb that produces the represented from the representee. > > -------------------- I guess I asked the wrong question. Are there any tools that would help me understand how the different parts of an expression fit together? The boxed display (aka 5!:2) is very useful. (The tree display (aka 5!:4) much less so). The reason for its effectiveness is that it always returns an array of length 1,2 or 3 - and all proper expressions, it seems, are the result of combining either 2 or 3 sub-expressions. It would have been very helpful if an inverse to 5!:2 could have been applied against each of the representations of the sub-expressions in the result. In this way the subexpressions could have been assigned a name. In view of Roger's reply, I think I should have asked the questions: If the shape of the result of 5!:2 is k, how do I assign into each of k names the J expression represented by each of the items in 5!:2. Would parsing the result of the fully parenthised result from 5!:6 give the required result? If so, then does anyone have such code they would be willing to post? Example: What would people suggest I do to figure out how the following expression works; how should I change it so that it works with characters?. ( It is the quicksort derived from Phrases Section 2.H (gerunds) phrh2.ijs..) ]`($:@(] #~ ] < {.) , (] #~ ] = {.) , $:@(] #~ ] > {.))@.(1: < #) ==================================== For interest, here is the source from Phrh2.ijs a5=: sel=: 1 : '] #~ ] x. {.' NB.Selection for Quicksort m6=: qs=: ] ` ($:@(sel)) @. (1:<#) NB.Quicksort defined recursively And here are the linear displays for qs are 5!:5<'qs' ]`($:@(] #~ ] < {.) , (] #~ ] = {.) , $:@(] #~ ] > {.))@.(1: < #) 5!:6<'qs' (]`(($:@(] (#~) (] < {.))) , ((] (#~) (] = {.)) , ($:@(] (#~) (] > {.))))))@.((1:) < #) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun Nov 29 10:23:20 1998 From: Bjorn Helgason Subject: Jforum: Contact us - changerequest Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:12:07 -0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE1BAA.D31DFA20" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1BAA.D31DFA20 I have changed internetserviceprovider so Please change the entry on: http://www.jsoftware.com/contact/contact.htm To: Bjorn Helgason Fugl & Fiskur hf Spitalastig 4 101 Reykjavik Iceland Tel: 354-562-5441 Email: gosi@centrum.is /Gosi - Jack of all trades Bjorn Helgason, Spitalastig 4, 101 Rvik, 562 5441, gosi@centrum.is ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1BAA.D31DFA20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih8PAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZvcnVtQEpTb2Z0d2Fy ZS5Db20AU01UUABmb3J1bUBKU29mdHdhcmUuQ29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAZm9ydW1ASlNvZnR3YXJlLkNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2ZvcnVtQEpTb2Z0d2FyZS5Db20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpGT1JVTUBKU09GVFdBUkUu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABmb3J1bUBKU29mdHdhcmUuQ29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZvcnVtQEpTb2Z0d2FyZS5Db20AU01U UABmb3J1bUBKU29mdHdhcmUuQ29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC 8VQBBIABABsAAABDb250YWN0IHVzIC0gY2hhbmdlcmVxdWVzdACwCQEFgAMADgAAAM4HCwAdAA8A DAAHAAAAHwEBIIADAA4AAADOBwsAHQAPAAkABgAAABsBAQmAAQAhAAAANzhERkQzMkZBOTFCQkUx MThDMkQ4MkU0MTZDNDE1RDkAUwcBA5AGANQEAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAA CwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AMDyPqGqG74BHgBwAAEAAAAbAAAAQ29udGFjdCB1 cyAtIGNoYW5nZXJlcXVlc3QAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+G6qhCmTQOSKHnBHSigUAAAAAAAAAAB4A HgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAQAAAAZ29zaUBjZW50cnVtLmlzAAMABhBxj0FwAwAH EBMBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJSEFWRUNIQU5HRURJTlRFUk5FVFNFUlZJQ0VQUk9WSURFUlNPUExF QVNFQ0hBTkdFVEhFRU5UUllPTjpIVFRQOi8vV1dXSlNPRlRXQVJFQ09NL0NPTlRBQ1QvQ09OVEFD VEhUAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAvwEAALsBAACbAgAATFpGdQTqKvcDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAz OZ0B9yACpAPjAgBjaArAYHNldDAgBxMCgH2zCoAIyCA7CW8OMDUS32cKYAKACoF1YwBQCwNjiwBB DwUzC6YgSSARALh2ZSAQ8Q8gCYAgC4BOdASREUARMHJ2DeBljnADYBkgBIEgc28Koh8KhAqEFhIO UA8GIFBsjGVhETAX5SB0aBfQoQnwdHJ5IAIgOhoVFRYydQMgaAJAcDovZC93HwAuahnwAYB3yQrA ZS4FoG0vBaACMNUA0HQgFi4ekG0WIQFAZx5gAUAaKVRvHaYaI0KGagWwA6BIZWxnHDAjAiAaFEZ1 ZwMgJiBaRgQAawhwF5BmGhRTDHBpAZALYHN0aWcsIDQaFA9AMQfwZXmka2oXsGlrGhRJGUAPDwEL MSJTI/A6IDM1IDQtNTYyKdA0NDsncBoURQDAAxApgGdvjQCQQBlAHTF1bS4EAB8aHh33GnoWdyGh IC9HUytRDIIgLS+jSgDQa7kdcGYgB0ADIB1AYQEA+ywlI4wsBgAmOjKwJ1Mn8f8ysCnhNFAqMTKw K00qZRHxAgA2oAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcw8IEoNaobvgFAAAgw8IEoNaob vgELAAGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA AFKFAAC3DQAAHgAGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAB4AIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAQgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAAD ABGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAEoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGF AAAAAAAAAwAVgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAA AAAAAB4AJ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAA AAAAAwANNP03AAD75Q== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1BAA.D31DFA20-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun Nov 29 10:46:43 1998 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:34:38 +0100 (MET) From: Martin Neitzel Subject: Re: Jforum: regexp "Andrew Nikitin" > > What regular expression matches one of the characters > a, [, ]? In perl, for example it would be [a\[\]], but it seems, that in j we > are not allowed to escape characters inside []. Some experiments show, that > one may use [][a] J uses standard Extended Regular Expressions, not perl regexps which are also nice but different. "Standard" means "as defined by ISO/IEC 9945:2 1993 (E) aka IEEE Std 1003.2-1992 aka POSIX.2. The J lab on regexps is just a gentle introduction to make it easy to make use of them. It glosses over some of the more arcane points. So here's the beef. To quote Section 2.8.3.2, "RE Bracket Expression": (1) [...] The right bracket (]) shall loose its special meaning and represent itself in a bracket expression if it occurs first in the list [after an initial circumflex (^), if any]. Otherwise, it shall terminate the bracket expression [...] The special special characters . * [ \ (period, asterisk, left bracket, and backslash, repectively) shall loose their special meaning within a bracjet expression. [...] (3) A nonmatching list expression begins with a circumflex (^) [...] The circumflex shall have this special meaning only when it occurs first in the list, immediately following the left bracket. I omitted distracting rules pertaining to the embedding of [.collating symbols.], [=equvalence classes=], and [:character classes:] which extend the above "naturally". To buy the POSIX standards itself is very expensive (but worthwhile if you are a professional Unix shop). For other mortal souls, the unix system's man pages on egrep(1) and/or regexp(5) will be good resources for information. To conclude: (1) To find detailed infos on J regexps, it's best to have access to some unix system. (2) Be sure to look at some documentation of "extended regular expressions" (as used in unix with egrep(1) and awk(1)), not "basic regular expressions" (as used in grep(1), ed(1), vi(1), and sed(1)), and neither the matching expressions coming with perl(1). > > '[][a]' rxall 'ab[a]c]' > +-+-+-+-+-+ > |a|[|a|]|]| > +-+-+-+-+-+ Perfect. > set utility from regbuild script [...] Sorry, I currently lack the time to look into this. Perhaps somebody else can. Martin Neitzel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun Nov 29 12:17:31 1998 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:02:32 -0500 From: Roger Hui Subject: Jforum: Re: Is there an inverse to 5!:2 was the wrong question References: <365FD075.3817B041@balcab.ch> <36601742.47AB@Interlog.Com> <3661373E.5E6F3871@balcab.ch> David Alis writes on Sunday, November 29: > Are there any tools that would help me understand how the different parts of an expression > fit together? > The boxed display (aka 5!:2) is very useful. (The tree display (aka 5!:4) much less so). The > reason for its effectiveness is that it always returns an array of length 1,2 or 3 - and > all proper expressions, it seems, are the result of combining either 2 or 3 sub-expressions. > It would have been very helpful if an inverse to 5!:2 could have been applied against each > of the representations of the sub-expressions in the result. In this way the subexpressions > could have been assigned a name. > > In view of Roger's reply, I think I should have asked the questions: > If the shape of the result of 5!:2 is k, how do I assign into each of k names the J > expression represented by each of the items in 5!:2. The question may be different but the answer here is the same: The atomic representation 5!:1 is more systematic and therefore more amenable to analysis and automatic manipulation. For example, although it is true that the boxed representation 5!:2 always returns 1,2, or 3 elements, which element is the "root function" and which are the arguments? > Would parsing the result of the fully parenthised result from 5!:6 give the required result? > If so, then does anyone have such code they would be willing to post? > > Example: > What would people suggest I do to figure out how the following expression works; how should > I change it so that it works with characters?. ( It is the quicksort derived from Phrases > Section 2.H (gerunds) phrh2.ijs..) > > ]`($:@(] #~ ] < {.) , (] #~ ] = {.) , $:@(] #~ ] > {.))@.(1: < #) NB. [**] > > ==================================== > For interest, here is the source from Phrh2.ijs > a5=: sel=: 1 : '] #~ ] x. {.' NB.Selection for Quicksort > m6=: qs=: ] ` ($:@(sel)) @. (1:<#) NB.Quicksort defined recursively It is much easier to analyze qs (m6) itself, rather than the expression ** above derived from qs, because it suppresses the details of sel. To have a quicksort that works on different data types, simply supply comparatives to sel appropriate to that data type. For example: sel=: 1 : '] #~ ] x. {.' qs =: ] ` ($:@(sel)) @. (1:<#) sgn=: ((0&~: i. 1:) { ,&0) @: * @: - " 1 qs1=: ] ` ($:@((_1: = sgn) sel), -:"1 sel, $:@((1: = sgn) sel)) @. (1:<#) qs2=: ] ` ($:@(<&(a.&i.) sel), -:"1 sel, $:@(>&(a.&i.) sel)) @. (1:<#) qs3=: ] ` ($:@((_1: = sgn&(a.&i.)) sel), -:"1 sel, $:@((1: = sgn&(a.&i.)) sel)) @. (1:<#) The dyad sgn applies to numeric vectors of equal length, and returns _1, 0, or 1 depending on whether the left argument is less than, equal to, or greater than the right argument. qs1 is quicksort on numeric matrices; qs2 is quicksort on literal vectors; qs3 is quicksort on literal matrices. Thus: ] x=: ?.7 4$10 1 7 4 5 2 0 6 6 9 3 5 8 0 0 5 6 0 3 0 4 6 5 9 8 5 0 6 4 2 0 6 6 sgn x 1 0 _1 1 1 _1 _1 qs1 x 0 0 5 6 0 3 0 4 1 7 4 5 2 0 6 6 5 0 6 4 6 5 9 8 9 3 5 8 ] a=:>;:'the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog' a the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog qs3 a brown dog fox jumps lazy over quick the the Literals can also be sorted by sorting numerics under indexing into the alphabet. Thus: qs4=: qs1&.(a.&i.) (qs3 -: qs4) a 1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun Nov 29 12:24:43 1998 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:11:32 -0500 From: Roger Hui Subject: Jforum: Re: Is there an inverse to 5!:2 was the wrong question References: <365FD075.3817B041@balcab.ch> <36601742.47AB@Interlog.Com> <3661373E.5E6F3871@balcab.ch> <36617E28.4630@Interlog.Com> Roger Hui writes on Sunday, November 29: > qs2=: ] ` ($:@(<&(a.&i.) sel), -:"1 sel, $:@(>&(a.&i.) sel)) @. (1:<#) Oops, the "equal" should be = instead of -:"1 . Thus: qs2=: ] ` ($:@(<&(a.&i.) sel), = sel, $:@(>&(a.&i.) sel)) @. (1:<#) qs2 'Madam, I''m Adam.' ',.AIMaaaddmmm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon Nov 30 01:24:10 1998 Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:01:13 -0500 From: Roger Hui Subject: Jforum: Re: J program question. References: <199811292224.WAA13320@yrloc2.tor.soliton.com> Brian Schott writes on Saturday, November 28: > Happy Thanksgiving to all. I have a J programming question. > Any ideas would be appreciated. > > The elements of the boxes in the boxed array k below > represent connection weights between a feedforward > artificial neural network with architecture 2 3 3 1 (this > network representation does not contain the "bias" nodes); > there are two input nodes, 2 hidden layers with 3 nodes > each, and a single output node. > > ]k =:(2 3$'abcdef');(3 3$'ghijklmno');3 1$'pqr' > +---+---+-+ > |abc|ghi|p| > |def|jkl|q| > | |mno|r| > +---+---+-+ > > I have successfully created a list of the 18 possible paths > (*/2 3 3 1) each of length three in the array rk: > > Y0 =: >@(;/) .(,"0) > Y1 =: >@(;/) .(,"1 0) > ]rk =: ,"2]0|:,"_2] 0 1 2|:((0{k) Y0&> 1{k) Y1 >2{k > aaabbbcccdddeeefff > ghijklmnoghijklmno > pqrpqrpqrpqrpqrpqr > > Similarly the 36 paths (*/2 3 2 3) for the architecture > representing the connections boxed arrays in l, are in rl: > > ]l =:(2 3$'abcdef');(3 2$'ghijkl');2 3$'mnopqr' > +---+--+---+ > |abc|gh|mno| > |def|ij|pqr| > | |kl| | > +---+--+---+ > ]rl =: ,"2]0|:,"_2] 0 1 2|:((0{l) Y0&> 1{l) Y1 >2{l > aaaaaabbbbbbccccccddddddeeeeeeffffff > ggghhhiiijjjkkklllggghhhiiijjjkkklll > mnopqrmnopqrmnopqrmnopqrmnopqrmnopqr > > I have not been successful in generalizing the program which > produces result arrays above (eg, rk and rl) to other inputs > for which the number of hidden layers (boxed terms) is > greater. > > The approach I have been using (which is embodied in the > verbs Y0 and Y1) is the dot product. This is not essential, > but it appeals to my understanding of the topology. But this > approach is certainly not a requirement. Notice that the > adjacent boxes are pairwise matrix multiplication > conformable. In other words the boxed ranks of the three > boxes in k are kk =: 2 3;3 3;3 1 and in this case the > conformability requires that the adjacent values are all 3, > but that is coincidental. > > The order of the columns in the result arrays is not > important, by the way. I need to use only J6.2 and earlier > primitives, not newer primitives. > > Does anyone see a way to generalize this result? The problem can be solved in the form > f&.>/y where f is an appropriate inner product. (The following examples are best viewed using a monospaced font.) f=: , . (,&.>) ] k =:(2 3$'abcdef');(3 3$'ghijklmno');3 1$'pqr' +---+---+-+ |abc|ghi|p| |def|jkl|q| | |mno|r| +---+---+-+ > f&.>/ k +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ |agp|ahq|air|bjp|bkq|blr|cmp|cnq|cor| +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ |dgp|dhq|dir|ejp|ekq|elr|fmp|fnq|for| +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ |: > , > f&.>/ k aaabbbcccdddeeefff ghijklmnoghijklmno pqrpqrpqrpqrpqrpqr ] h=: (2 3$'abcdef');(3 4$'ghijklmnopqr');(4 1$'stuv');1 3$'wxy' +---+----+-+---+ |abc|ghij|s|wxy| |def|klmn|t| | | |opqr|u| | | | |v| | +---+----+-+---+ > f&.>/ h +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+---- |agsw|agsx|agsy|ahtw|ahtx|ahty|aiuw|aiux|aiuy|ajvw|ajvx|ajvy|bksw|bksx|bksy ... +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+---- |dgsw|dgsx|dgsy|dhtw|dhtx|dhty|diuw|diux|diuy|djvw|djvx|djvy|eksw|eksx|eksy +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+---- |: > ,> f&.>/ h aaaaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbbbbbccccccccccccddddddddddddeeeeeeeeeeeeffffffffffff ggghhhiiijjjkkklllmmmnnnooopppqqqrrrggghhhiiijjjkkklllmmmnnnooopppqqqrrr ssstttuuuvvvssstttuuuvvvssstttuuuvvvssstttuuuvvvssstttuuuvvvssstttuuuvvv wxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxywxy $&.> f&.>/\. h +----+----+---+---+ |2 36|3 12|4 3|1 3| +----+----+---+---+ $&.> h +---+---+---+---+ |2 3|3 4|4 1|1 3| +---+---+---+---+ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm