2019-10-05T00:24:47 #kisslinux <Xyliton> I installed all kinds of stuff for xorg now and I'm hit with a "no screens found"
2019-10-05T01:03:59 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Is it possible to use the propietary Nvidia drivers on KISS? I attempted to use nouveau but they don't support my card (yet)
2019-10-05T01:47:15 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Try downloading from https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx, maybe?
2019-10-05T01:48:19 #kisslinux <Xyliton> I tried that but it seems like they don't work on musl
2019-10-05T01:55:02 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Looks like there's no good way to use them on musl :/
2019-10-05T02:08:54 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Guess I'll have to use another distro then unfortunately :/
2019-10-05T03:19:59 #kisslinux <Renzix> hi
2019-10-05T03:33:13 #kisslinux <eyepatchOwl> hi
2019-10-05T03:34:07 #kisslinux <eyepatchOwl> Xyliton, maybe consider KISS with glibc? It seems unlikely that you'll have success with a different distro which uses musl.
2019-10-05T05:41:19 #kisslinux <konimex> yeah nvidia won't work with musl
2019-10-05T07:14:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> paradigm: Nice!
2019-10-05T07:15:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS with glibc: https://github.com/fanboimsft/kissD
2019-10-05T07:17:19 #kisslinux <knob> ah! compton
2019-10-05T08:04:39 #kisslinux <Xyliton> dylanaraps: so glibc has to come with systemd?
2019-10-05T08:05:43 #kisslinux <Crestwave> I don't think so
2019-10-05T08:06:08 #kisslinux <Crestwave> That person just wanted to have systemd, pulseaudio, etc., too, and packaged it in his repositoriy with it
2019-10-05T08:06:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ^
2019-10-05T08:06:59 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Ohh, the way it looked I assumed those were required to be installed
2019-10-05T08:07:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's just a matter of building a KISS chroot with 'glibc' in place of musl. This requires patches for glibc and possibly the removal of some musl patches.
2019-10-05T08:07:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> glibc is huge though.
2019-10-05T08:08:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> du -sh glibc-2.30.tar.gz
2019-10-05T08:08:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 31.2M   glibc-2.30.tar.gz
2019-10-05T08:08:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> du -sh musl-1.1.23.tar.gz
2019-10-05T08:08:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 992.0K  musl-1.1.23.tar.gz
2019-10-05T08:09:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Extracted:
2019-10-05T08:09:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> du -sh glibc-2.30/
2019-10-05T08:09:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 249.1M  glibc-2.30/
2019-10-05T08:09:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> du -sh musl-1.1.23/
2019-10-05T08:09:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 12.1M   musl-1.1.23/
2019-10-05T08:09:33 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Whoa, that's massive
2019-10-05T08:10:25 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Kinda sad that nouveau doesn't support my card yet :/
2019-10-05T08:11:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2019-10-05T08:12:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I finally packaged kiss-utils fyi. :)
2019-10-05T08:12:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/kiss-utils
2019-10-05T08:13:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is my favourite: kiss-export: Turn an installed package into a KISS tarball.
2019-10-05T08:13:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Takes an installed package and returns it to an installable tarball.
2019-10-05T08:16:30 #kisslinux <Xyliton> And then you could send that tarball to someone else?
2019-10-05T08:17:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2019-10-05T08:17:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So long as you didn't compile with '-march=native'.
2019-10-05T08:17:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can then do 'kiss i /path/to/tarball'.
2019-10-05T08:17:44 #kisslinux <Xyliton> What would the use case be? Would you do that to provide precompiled packages to people?
2019-10-05T08:18:12 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Or packages they don't have in their repos?
2019-10-05T08:21:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can transfer built packages between machines (if you no longer have your cache).
2019-10-05T08:21:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS already creates tarballs you can transfer to people in `~/.cache/kiss/bin`.
2019-10-05T08:21:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is useful for when you've cleared this directory.
2019-10-05T08:22:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Having installable tarballs allows for a build now install later workflow and also leaves things open for binary repositories in the future.
2019-10-05T08:23:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> pfetch is now in community too.
2019-10-05T08:29:49 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Nice!
2019-10-05T08:36:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Still waiting on Paypal to resolve my account. Also still waiting on Keybase to reset my account. :|
2019-10-05T08:37:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (I have 99 Keybase invitations if anyone wants one).
2019-10-05T08:37:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb an hour or so.
2019-10-05T08:37:44 #kisslinux <Xyliton> You have to wait for keybase to reset? I thought that was instant?
2019-10-05T09:43:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Xyliton: Keybase disabled account resets through the website and I can't log into the client.
2019-10-05T09:43:32 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Oh
2019-10-05T09:44:17 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Btw do I have to do anything special to get integrated graphics to work?
2019-10-05T09:44:32 #kisslinux <Xyliton> lspci only shows me my GPU
2019-10-05T09:46:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Kernel drivers.
2019-10-05T09:46:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You may be missing the needed drivers.
2019-10-05T09:47:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mine (i915) needed firmware too.
2019-10-05T09:53:47 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Do I enable them when compiling the kernel?
2019-10-05T09:54:14 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Tried to build xf86-video-intel but I messed that up slightly
2019-10-05T09:55:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You shouldn't need xf86-video-intel, Xorg's generic modesetting video driver actually works better.
2019-10-05T09:55:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It sounds to me like a kernel driver issue.
2019-10-05T09:55:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ie, run 'make menuconfig' and enable whatever is missing.
2019-10-05T09:58:40 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Hm... I have the "Intel 8xx/9xx/G3x/G4x/HD Graphics option enabled already
2019-10-05T09:59:34 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Do I need anything else?
2019-10-05T10:01:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 2 secs
2019-10-05T10:02:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll send you my .config.
2019-10-05T10:04:30 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Should I diff that with my own?
2019-10-05T10:05:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/dylanaraps/c8b648db4294e287cbd1bb2bb1acd20a/raw/d8972d5f9e2811f5498265edc1650e525d6baa52/gistfile1.txt
2019-10-05T10:05:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You could, yeah.
2019-10-05T10:05:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What intel graphics chip do you have?
2019-10-05T10:06:22 #kisslinux <Xyliton> HD 4600
2019-10-05T10:08:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Look here too: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Intel#Kernel
2019-10-05T10:17:52 #kisslinux <Xyliton> I'll try building the kernel with that stuff added. Thanks!
2019-10-05T10:18:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> np
2019-10-05T10:21:27 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Something rather... Weird just happened
2019-10-05T10:21:50 #kisslinux <Xyliton> https://i.imgur.com/p3Xq26g.jpg
2019-10-05T10:22:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Interesting
2019-10-05T10:23:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do you have these in your kernel cmdline? 'nomodeset' 'vga='?
2019-10-05T10:23:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (You shouln't have these)
2019-10-05T10:24:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can try adding 'nomodeset' though.
2019-10-05T10:25:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also try pairing it with: 'i915.modeset=0'.
2019-10-05T10:25:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Worth a shot.
2019-10-05T10:25:42 #kisslinux <Xyliton> I can change those in grub, right?
2019-10-05T10:26:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes, though it'll reset on next boot.
2019-10-05T10:26:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fine enough to test though.
2019-10-05T10:30:07 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Looks like I don't have any of those problematic params. Tried adding that i915 one too but I'm getting the same results https://i.imgur.com/QPM690C.jpg
2019-10-05T10:32:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try linux 5.3.2 or the latest LTS.
2019-10-05T10:32:33 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Okay
2019-10-05T10:54:41 #kisslinux <Xyliton> dylanaraps: that got me a bit further I think? It installed DRI module during `make modules_install` but xorg still refuses to detect a screen
2019-10-05T10:54:57 #kisslinux <Xyliton> The xorg log complains about the "intel" module missing
2019-10-05T10:55:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You need to compile them as built in.
2019-10-05T10:55:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [*] instead of [m].
2019-10-05T10:57:31 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Ohhh, I thought I had that enabled. Duh. Thanks again!
2019-10-05T11:03:45 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Hmm.... I'm still getting the same error
2019-10-05T11:07:17 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Here's my xorg log https://0x0.st/zwBc.log
2019-10-05T11:11:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do you have eudev?
2019-10-05T11:13:15 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Yes
2019-10-05T11:14:17 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Running "udevadm" errors with a symbolic link loop though
2019-10-05T11:33:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's probably it.
2019-10-05T11:34:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Run 'rm /usr/bin/udevadm' (as root) and 'kiss i eudev' to fix it.
2019-10-05T11:57:19 #kisslinux <Xyliton> That unfortunately didn't change anything regarding xorg
2019-10-05T11:57:52 #kisslinux <Xyliton> lspci doesn't pick it up either. That only lists my GPU, not the integrated graphics
2019-10-05T12:05:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Anything in 'dmesg'?
2019-10-05T12:06:26 #kisslinux <Xyliton> What should I look for? There's nothing graphics-specific when grep-ing for Intel and vga
2019-10-05T12:07:31 #kisslinux <Xyliton> For some reason the fbdev module is missing to now
2019-10-05T12:08:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 'i915', 'DRM'/'drm'
2019-10-05T12:10:07 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Nothing for i915
2019-10-05T12:10:37 #kisslinux <Xyliton> DRM gives two "supports DRM functions and may not be fully accessible"
2019-10-05T12:12:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hm, could be a driver missing entirely.
2019-10-05T12:17:33 #kisslinux <Xyliton> oof
2019-10-05T12:19:18 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Is that something a noob (me) can fix?
2019-10-05T12:52:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I meant a driver missing from your .config (not from the kernel itself) :)
2019-10-05T13:26:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/vhakulinen/gnvim
2019-10-05T13:26:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GNvim - Rich Neovim GUI without any web bloat
2019-10-05T13:27:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Requires webkitGtk2
2019-10-05T13:27:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkit2gtk*
2019-10-05T14:32:06 #kisslinux <kissuser> I've a question regarding configure options
2019-10-05T14:32:32 #kisslinux <kissuser> What's the most common behavior in software?
2019-10-05T14:33:24 #kisslinux <kissuser> If we set only the minimum (for exampla --prefix e.t.c) do we have now the minimum set or the defaults the project thinks most people will have?
2019-10-05T14:35:59 #kisslinux <kissuser> s/will/want_to
2019-10-05T14:37:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It depends on the software.
2019-10-05T14:37:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Best case '--prefix=/usr' is all that is needed.
2019-10-05T14:37:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> xprop requires these for example:
2019-10-05T14:37:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>     --prefix=/usr 2019-10-05T14:37:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>     --mandir=/usr/share/man 2019-10-05T14:37:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>     --localstatedir=/var
2019-10-05T14:37:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Still good as these only control system path locations.
2019-10-05T14:38:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It depends on what you're packaging really.
2019-10-05T14:40:19 #kisslinux <kissuser> I already suppose that it depends on software. But you are very experienced and you compiled i think tons of software so my question is: what's the most frequent / common behavior you had?
2019-10-05T14:42:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>      83 --prefix=/usr
2019-10-05T14:43:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>      17 --sysconfdir=/etc
2019-10-05T14:43:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>      13 --mandir=/usr/share/man
2019-10-05T14:43:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>      11 --disable-nls
2019-10-05T14:43:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>       6 --localstatedir=/var
2019-10-05T14:43:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>       5 --sbindir=/usr/bin
2019-10-05T14:43:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>       5 --enable-shared
2019-10-05T14:43:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>       3 --disable-werror
2019-10-05T14:43:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>       3 --disable-static
2019-10-05T14:43:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>       2 --without-python
2019-10-05T14:43:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>       2 --without-libidn
2019-10-05T14:43:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>       2 --without-debug
2019-10-05T14:43:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is for the 150~ packages in the core repositories.
2019-10-05T14:43:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Configure flags by number of times used.
2019-10-05T14:44:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (This only covers packages using autotools)
2019-10-05T14:47:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So a good base is '--prefix=/usr'.
2019-10-05T14:48:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can then check the built tarball (stored in ~/.cache/kiss/bin) to see if the '/etc', 'man', 'var' 'bin' paths are correctly used.
2019-10-05T14:48:05 #kisslinux <kissuser> I'm more interested in flags regarding the functionality of thr program itselt, for example "--with-gpm-mouse" or "--with-screen=[LIB]" or flags regarding ncurses
2019-10-05T14:48:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I see.
2019-10-05T14:48:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's better to leave them blank as 'configure' will add them if they're available and disable them if they're not.
2019-10-05T14:49:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If something offers a '--with-x'/'--without-x' flag (vim for example), it's better to always have '--without-x' by default.
2019-10-05T14:49:34 #kisslinux <kissuser> So i want to know, if we say nearly "nothing" to ./configure do we get a "slim" configuration or the "maximum" or the "most useful" ...
2019-10-05T14:49:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm actually going through and removing '--disable-nls' to make it easier for people to use 'gettext' if they want it.
2019-10-05T14:50:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You get the defaults which is a mix of auto detected dependencies, mandatory dependencies (may have --disable- option) and default paths/options.
2019-10-05T14:50:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We tend to stick with the defaults unless there's a reason for changing something.
2019-10-05T14:53:39 #kisslinux <kissuser> So i seems the KISS principle we meet also here: Use as few "flags" as possible?
2019-10-05T14:54:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It really depends.
2019-10-05T14:54:52 #kisslinux <kissuser> OK.
2019-10-05T14:54:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The only set in stone rule are setting '--prefix', '--mandir' etc _if needed_.
2019-10-05T14:55:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> rules*
2019-10-05T14:55:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's all on a case-by-case basis.
2019-10-05T14:55:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A package may need *more* flags so the resulting program is simpler for example.
2019-10-05T14:57:49 #kisslinux <kissuser> Yes. I see. In the case of "mc" i got even more depends without the "--disable-nls" you proposed above...
2019-10-05T15:00:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Instead of '--disable-nls' I'm going to prefer '--enable-nls=auto' if it isn't already the default.
2019-10-05T15:00:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'd like to make it as easy as possible for someone to package/install/use 'gettext'/'intltool'.
2019-10-05T15:08:55 #kisslinux <kissuser> The "flags" i see with ./configure --help are they always the same (for the same version) or do they depend on the "system configuration"
2019-10-05T15:09:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Always the same.
2019-10-05T15:13:47 #kisslinux <kissuser> ... except the configure script was autogenerated :-( I just now wondered, why i couldnt find the --disable-nls ...
2019-10-05T15:15:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It doesn't always list all options either.
2019-10-05T15:15:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Honestly, it's a headache inducing process.
2019-10-05T15:19:49 #kisslinux <kissuser> OK. Thanks for you infinite patience :-)
2019-10-05T16:03:35 #kisslinux <mahmudov> is there any supported link to read why dbus is not in official repo?
2019-10-05T16:03:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Something official by myself you mean?
2019-10-05T16:04:40 #kisslinux <mahmudov> yes, why are you think it is obsolete or ?
2019-10-05T16:05:16 #kisslinux <mahmudov> just curious to see why it is not need in a distro
2019-10-05T16:07:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's insecure, poorly documented, broken in its implementation and just overall unneeded.
2019-10-05T16:07:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Methods for IPC have existed long before dbus and they don't require a userspace daemon or badly documented OOP XML interface.
2019-10-05T16:08:55 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Not trying to argue in favour of dbus, but don't you lose support for a lot of software when not using it?
2019-10-05T16:09:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Software which only implements a single method of IPC, yes.
2019-10-05T16:09:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though nothing stops you from packaging and running dbus on KISS.
2019-10-05T16:09:49 #kisslinux <mahmudov> glib can compile without dbus?
2019-10-05T16:09:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's just not included in the official repositories.
2019-10-05T16:09:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes, it can.
2019-10-05T16:10:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Majority of programs with a mandatory dependency on dbus are broken.
2019-10-05T16:11:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There are exceptions but there's nothing stopping it from being optional.
2019-10-05T16:11:47 #kisslinux <mahmudov> i am trying to realize distro can live without it
2019-10-05T16:12:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > It's just not included in the official repositories.
2019-10-05T16:12:07 #kisslinux <mahmudov> a distro*
2019-10-05T16:12:14 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Does kiss even use glib? Lol
2019-10-05T16:12:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Though nothing stops you from packaging and running dbus on KISS.
2019-10-05T16:12:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2019-10-05T16:12:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> glib is required sadly.
2019-10-05T16:12:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GTK+2/3 need it.
2019-10-05T16:12:46 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Oh
2019-10-05T16:12:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> As do the font stack etc.
2019-10-05T16:13:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's terrible really.
2019-10-05T16:13:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Red Hat _are_ the "Linux desktop" today.
2019-10-05T16:13:37 #kisslinux <mahmudov> i am not on packaging side, yes it can ofc. i just see the if we really need it
2019-10-05T16:13:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It depends on your needs.
2019-10-05T16:13:59 #kisslinux <mahmudov> so i wanted to ask you as an experimental
2019-10-05T16:14:00 #kisslinux <Xyliton> I'm really annoyed by Nvidia requiring glibc to install their drives
2019-10-05T16:14:04 #kisslinux <Xyliton> *drivers
2019-10-05T16:14:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you do need it you have two options, package dbus yourself and run it on KISS or use a distribution which provides it.
2019-10-05T16:14:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I created KISS to get away from these things.
2019-10-05T16:15:10 #kisslinux <mahmudov> let's see, it is good to track you
2019-10-05T16:15:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Even Void, Gentoo etc removed the option to build Firefox without dbus despite it being possible.
2019-10-05T16:15:33 #kisslinux <mahmudov> it will be a good success if we can rid of something such like
2019-10-05T16:15:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dbus/systemd create a UUID for your system which is then read by programs to identify you.
2019-10-05T16:16:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/machine-id.html
2019-10-05T16:16:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> >  The ID of each machine should be unique.
2019-10-05T16:16:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > The machine ID is usually generated from a random source during system installation or first boot and stays constant for all subsequent boots.
2019-10-05T16:16:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > This machine ID adheres to the same format and logic as the D-Bus machine ID.
2019-10-05T16:17:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox/Chromium refuse to launch if this file is missing (and they were compiled with dbus support).
2019-10-05T16:17:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (ie they utilize the ID).
2019-10-05T16:17:32 #kisslinux <mahmudov> hmm
2019-10-05T16:20:13 #kisslinux <mahmudov> audio_thread_priority is disabled in your firefox so
2019-10-05T16:20:23 #kisslinux <mahmudov> because of it needs to dbus
2019-10-05T16:20:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2019-10-05T16:20:34 #kisslinux <mahmudov> is there any side effects of it?
2019-10-05T16:20:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No
2019-10-05T16:20:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a new feature in Firefox 69.
2019-10-05T16:20:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So audio just reverts to being as it was for the previous 68 versions.
2019-10-05T16:21:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The new mandatory dependency on dbus in Firefox 69 is marked as a regression in their bug tracker.
2019-10-05T16:22:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They might fix it eventually (or they might not) but they've marked it as a bug regardless.
2019-10-05T16:25:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I started KISS because I wanted to run a system without dbus, systemd, glibc, polkit, gettext, gnu coreutils, pam, pulseaudio, etc etc etc.
2019-10-05T16:26:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This isn't possible in other distributions (I've tried).
2019-10-05T16:26:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You could use Alpine to get musl, busybox and possible pulseaudio but you're still stuck with the rest.
2019-10-05T16:27:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Gentoo/Void don't allow you to remove everything either (You can't do Firefox without dbus at all in these).
2019-10-05T16:27:48 #kisslinux <Xyliton> What's the problem with pulseaudio and polkit btw?
2019-10-05T16:28:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Polkit uses Javascript for its rules.
2019-10-05T16:28:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I really don't like this.
2019-10-05T16:28:41 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Wait it does _what_?
2019-10-05T16:29:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Pulseaudio is just something which I don't need (or like). It's a layer on top of ALSA and ALSA is fine. (You can package pulseaudio and run it on KISS yourself if you like).
2019-10-05T16:30:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Rules files are written in the JavaScript programming language and interface with polkitd through the global polkit object (of type Polkit).
2019-10-05T16:30:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Source: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/polkit/docs/latest/polkit.8.html
2019-10-05T16:30:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Under: AUTHORIZATION RULES)
2019-10-05T16:32:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I wanted a distribution where it's *less software first* with the ability to extend it yourself afterwards.
2019-10-05T16:32:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://github.com/fanboimsft/kissD
2019-10-05T16:33:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This person runs KISS with systemd, glibc, polkit, dbus, etc etc etc
2019-10-05T17:13:45 #kisslinux <kissuser> BWT: why does kisslinux use github? Its now owned by M$ and so it's not the "pure doctrine"...
2019-10-05T17:13:56 #kisslinux <kissuser> /s/BWT/BTW
2019-10-05T17:15:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2019-10-05T17:15:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GitHub is where "the community" is per se. I'm not going to move to another platform regardless of who owns GitHub if the majority aren't there. Discoverability is number 1 here.
2019-10-05T17:16:54 #kisslinux <kissuser> OK.
2019-10-05T17:17:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's pointless anyway as I'll be setting up a mirror elsewhere soon.
2019-10-05T17:18:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Best of both worlds.
2019-10-05T17:18:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I care less about the platform and more about who and what is on it if that makes sense.
2019-10-05T17:19:06 #kisslinux <kissuser> I read your comments regarding firefox. firefox in nowadays is somewhat "mission critical" But there are no real alternatives i think. So what can we do if we loose the dbus battle on firefox?
2019-10-05T17:21:24 #kisslinux <eyepatchOwl> I haven't found a simple browser which is safe for the web yet. Of the terminal alternatives, w3m seems best. Of the GUI alternatives, WebKitGTK seems to be the smallest, but that one is still very large.
2019-10-05T17:22:34 #kisslinux <kissuser> i think the gtk things getting also entangled with dbus...
2019-10-05T17:23:23 #kisslinux <mahmudov> what about next browser, anybody used it?
2019-10-05T17:23:49 #kisslinux <eyepatchOwl> I don't expect a simple method to support JavaScript, but it would be nice to de-couple JavaScript from the rendering engine even if impractical given the impact JavaScript has on the DOM.
2019-10-05T17:24:04 #kisslinux <eyepatchOwl> nEXT is just QtWebKit.
2019-10-05T17:24:14 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Someone could always fork Firefox and rip out dbus ¯_(ツ)_/¯
2019-10-05T17:24:19 #kisslinux <mahmudov> ah,
2019-10-05T17:24:46 #kisslinux <eyepatchOwl> surf is the suckless wrapper around WebKitGTK which seems like the next increment over w3m.
2019-10-05T17:25:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Xyliton: My patch with `--disable-dbus` does this.
2019-10-05T17:25:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS' Firefox is dbus free.
2019-10-05T17:25:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If Firefox breaks removing dbus, I'll just patch it again.
2019-10-05T17:26:11 #kisslinux <kissuser> But it will be  getting harder and harder to keep it dbus free i'm afraid
2019-10-05T17:26:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Absolute worse case we swap to the latest ESR which gives me a year give or take to figure it out.
2019-10-05T17:26:56 #kisslinux <kissuser> OK. Sounds promising :-)
2019-10-05T17:30:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-beta/search?q=dbus&redirect=false
2019-10-05T17:31:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is the Firefox beta source search results for dbus.
2019-10-05T17:31:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Firefox 70)
2019-10-05T17:31:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's all wrapped in ifdefs minus the rust stuff I patch out.
2019-10-05T17:33:39 #kisslinux <eyepatchOwl> I was under the impression that the Rust stuff was pretty integrated into Firefox. Is it not very integral then?
2019-10-05T17:33:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It depends.
2019-10-05T17:34:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> New features are more easily removable than older ones.
2019-10-05T17:34:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm trying a Firefox 70 beta build now.
2019-10-05T17:35:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will start packaging in advance for Firefox.
2019-10-05T17:35:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dbus actually became easier to patch out in 69.0.2 vs 69.0.
2019-10-05T17:35:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The patch is smaller now.
2019-10-05T17:39:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I need to rewrite my dbus patch again!
2019-10-05T17:41:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oops
2019-10-05T17:41:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> actually
2019-10-05T17:41:53 #kisslinux <paradigm> Could there be value in contacting the Mozilla folks and working with them to maintain a compile-time flag for removing dbus?  IIRC when ALSA support was being dropped they said it's because they didn't have manpower to maintain it and would be willing to if someone stepped up.
2019-10-05T17:43:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There exists one.
2019-10-05T17:43:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> '--disable-dbus'.
2019-10-05T17:44:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The Mozilla developers broke it in Firefox 69.0.
2019-10-05T17:44:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's marked as a regression on Bugzilla.
2019-10-05T17:44:43 #kisslinux <paradigm> Ahh
2019-10-05T17:44:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My patch is minor though, the '--disable-dbus' flag still works for 99% of the code.
2019-10-05T17:45:05 #kisslinux <paradigm> Well, that's encouraging
2019-10-05T17:45:39 #kisslinux <E5ten> Sorry I know this topic was wayyy up but since xf86-video-intel started getting commits, the generic modesetting driver has certainly not worked better, xf86-video-intel is a masterful work of art, I have absolutely no tearing despite no compositor on 3 different Intel iGPU computers, and all 3 of them had tearing without a compositor on generic modesetting.
2019-10-05T17:46:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We provide both either way.
2019-10-05T17:46:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Modesetting might also be getting the TearFree feature too.
2019-10-05T17:46:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Modesetting actually works better for me, but you know how hardware is...
2019-10-05T17:47:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "Works on my machine" :P
2019-10-05T17:47:13 #kisslinux <Xyliton> There's xf86-video-intel on kiss?
2019-10-05T17:47:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Huh, I thought I packaged it.
2019-10-05T17:47:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 2 secs
2019-10-05T17:48:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> xf86-video-intel is that good without tearfree enabled
2019-10-05T17:49:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> I've never enabled TearFree
2019-10-05T17:49:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Last update is 2014 according to https://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/driver/
2019-10-05T17:49:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Arch pulls a commit from their git repository.
2019-10-05T17:50:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lots of new commits though: https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel/log/
2019-10-05T17:51:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 850~ commits since last release.
2019-10-05T17:52:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yeah I use it on arch, that's why I said since the new commits, I assume the latest release would be crap
2019-10-05T17:52:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh yeah.
2019-10-05T17:52:28 #kisslinux <E5ten> Wow that's even more than I thought
2019-10-05T17:53:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Well it has been 5-6 years.
2019-10-05T17:55:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> When you've tried it had it been a relatively recent commit or the release/an older commit, cuz if the latter I'd recommend trying a recent commit, it's been working incredibly for me
2019-10-05T17:55:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I will be now.
2019-10-05T17:55:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Packaging it.
2019-10-05T17:56:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> Awesome
2019-10-05T18:04:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Builds :)
2019-10-05T18:08:14 #kisslinux <Xyliton> How does it fare against modesetting?
2019-10-05T18:09:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I haven't swapped to it yet to try.
2019-10-05T18:10:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will let you know my personal experience.
2019-10-05T18:11:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/3cde0d88280736c3e301b2448b3e6f3f35311f4f
2019-10-05T18:11:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Pushed.
2019-10-05T18:21:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Updated the dbus patch for Firefox 70.
2019-10-05T18:24:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It turns out that the patch became smaller in Firefox 69.0.2 due to the Mozilla developers partly disabling the feature. https://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-beta/source/media/audioipc/disable-rt.patch
2019-10-05T18:37:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> As of Firefox 70 we need to build our Python with sqlite3.
2019-10-05T18:37:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ImportError: No module named _sqlite3
2019-10-05T18:48:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Huh, no Linux distributions have the latest sqlite3.
2019-10-05T18:48:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Weird.
2019-10-05T18:49:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh, it just came out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21163359
2019-10-05T18:49:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Perfect timing :P
2019-10-05T19:04:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox 70 beta is now in testing. https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/tree/master/testing/firefox
2019-10-05T19:04:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not sure if it 100% builds yet though I've fixed two issues already.
2019-10-05T19:05:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lots of Python 3 support in Firefox 70.
2019-10-05T19:05:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not enough for a full swap though.
2019-10-05T19:06:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK, configure passes now.
2019-10-05T19:06:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> On to the build!
2019-10-05T19:09:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox 70 uses a lot more rust crates.
2019-10-05T19:25:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK, the rust audio stuff compiled fine.
2019-10-05T19:38:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I find stuff like this ridiculous. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1577030
2019-10-05T19:39:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Telemetry to know # of trackers blocked
2019-10-05T19:39:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ?!?!?!!?
2019-10-05T19:39:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The tracking blocker tracks you. 10/10
2019-10-05T19:39:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > We can collect the number of trackers blocked per day per person.
2019-10-05T19:39:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [...] for marketing purposes.
2019-10-05T19:41:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Is the data collection request for default-on or default-off?
2019-10-05T19:41:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Default on for all channels.
2019-10-05T19:41:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Yes. :chsiang is responsible for renewing or removing the collection before it expires in Firefox 75.
2019-10-05T19:41:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > expires in Firefox 75.
2019-10-05T19:41:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> jesus
2019-10-05T19:50:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All of the rust components built fine.
2019-10-05T19:51:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Another hour and 20 minutes and it should be done now.
2019-10-05T19:54:08 #kisslinux <Xyliton> Building Firefox takes over an hour? Wew
2019-10-05T19:54:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Takes 2 hours~ usually.
2019-10-05T19:54:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> On my machine at least.
2019-10-05T19:54:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Currently 51 minutes in.
2019-10-05T19:54:51 #kisslinux <Xyliton> What are your specs?
2019-10-05T19:56:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Intel i7-6500U (4) @ 3.100GHz
2019-10-05T19:56:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 8GB memory
2019-10-05T19:56:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> SSD
2019-10-05T19:56:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's the gist of it.
2019-10-05T20:00:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 56:40.47 ipc/chromium
2019-10-05T20:00:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hm
2019-10-05T20:00:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 55:15.70 ipc/chromium/src/third_party
2019-10-05T20:00:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's part of the chromium source huh.
2019-10-05T21:47:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox 70 builds fine.
2019-10-05T21:47:53 #kisslinux <randalltux> hi, there!
2019-10-05T21:47:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hello :)
2019-10-05T21:48:40 #kisslinux <randalltux> dylanaraps: Hello, dylan!
2019-10-05T21:48:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Welcome! I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
2019-10-05T21:50:35 #kisslinux <randalltux> dylanaraps: There is any options to automatic load wlan modules?
2019-10-05T21:50:52 #kisslinux <randalltux> I always load wlan modules manually on boot
2019-10-05T21:51:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can modify your '/etc/inittab' to run 'modprobe module_name' at boot.
2019-10-05T21:52:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's the simplest way. You can also compile the driver directly into the kernel.
2019-10-05T21:55:34 #kisslinux <randalltux> I'm already compile my wlan driver, but it wont start automaticaly at boot.
2019-10-05T21:56:03 #kisslinux <randalltux> So, i have to add 'modprobe iwlwifi' at the end of '/etc/inittab' ?
2019-10-05T21:56:10 #kisslinux <randalltux> Sorry for my bad english
2019-10-05T21:56:13 #kisslinux * randalltux cry
2019-10-05T22:00:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ::once:/path/to/script.sh
2019-10-05T22:00:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Create a script, add two lines '#!/bin/sh' and 'modeprobe iwlwifi'.
2019-10-05T22:01:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Put the '::once:/path/to/script.sh' line in your '/etc/inittab'.
2019-10-05T22:01:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Change the path so it points to the script and make sure it is executable.
2019-10-05T22:43:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox 70 beta works fine.