[2023-02-16T00:19:45Z] <shokara_> sounds like a lot of extra attack surface
[2023-02-16T00:20:02Z] <shokara_> a lot of extra unnecessary* attack surface
[2023-02-16T00:35:44Z] <niceguy5000[m]> what does? it's only 4 tools.
[2023-02-16T00:46:38Z] <dotkwa[m]> the most secure system at all is just unplugging your ethernet, winkwink
[2023-02-16T00:46:45Z] <dotkwa[m]> s/at/of/
[2023-02-16T00:47:13Z] <niceguy5000[m]> is it usable?
[2023-02-16T01:10:27Z] <shokara_> yes
[2023-02-16T01:10:45Z] <shokara_> you can transfer files with usb drives
[2023-02-16T01:24:33Z] <niceguy5000[m]> like download and watch offline? Like download the internet and watch offline too?
[2023-02-16T01:26:18Z] <shokara_> yes
[2023-02-16T01:26:36Z] <shokara_> I think that's how people use airgapped computers?
[2023-02-16T02:52:18Z] <laith> hello
[2023-02-16T03:10:41Z] <davidgarland> o/
[2023-02-16T03:13:19Z] <davidgarland> qq what'd I do to deserve that
[2023-02-16T03:41:02Z] <sewn> Hi
[2023-02-16T04:09:13Z] <davidgarland> o/
[2023-02-16T04:19:19Z] <testuser[m]123> Hi
[2023-02-16T04:21:37Z] <davidgarland> hallo
[2023-02-16T04:56:00Z] <Ellowee[m]> No network adapters, all outbound i/o occurs through a buffer
[2023-02-16T04:56:08Z] <Ellowee[m]> s/outbound//
[2023-02-16T04:56:16Z] <Ellowee[m]> Silly me with oxymoron
[2023-02-16T05:03:44Z] <niceguy5000[m]> <Ellowee[m]> "No network adapters, all..." <- you mean pipe videos and pages through nc and watch them offline?
[2023-02-16T05:04:09Z] <niceguy5000[m]> on a different machine? 
[2023-02-16T12:05:22Z] <midfavila> >implying that network adapters don't use a buffer
[2023-02-16T12:05:31Z] <midfavila> >he hasn't read TCP/IP Illustrated
[2023-02-16T12:05:41Z] <midfavila> ara ara
[2023-02-16T13:36:27Z] <midfavila> >need a smartphone to use a device for a medical assessment 
[2023-02-16T13:36:35Z] <midfavila> the botnet is literally trying to fuckig kill me what the hell
[2023-02-16T13:36:44Z] <midfavila> i hate living in 2023
[2023-02-16T14:25:18Z] <sewn> stop using technology and disappear into the wilderness of canada
[2023-02-16T14:25:55Z] <midfavila> need tools before i can do that
[2023-02-16T14:26:14Z] <midfavila> need money before tools
[2023-02-16T14:26:14Z] <midfavila> need job before money
[2023-02-16T14:26:14Z] <midfavila> need certs before job
[2023-02-16T14:26:14Z] <midfavila> need money before certs
[2023-02-16T14:26:14Z] <midfavila> ree
[2023-02-16T14:26:19Z] <midfavila> https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/840134
[2023-02-16T14:27:31Z] <sewn> just leave nothing behind and go naked, boom
[2023-02-16T14:27:46Z] <midfavila> when it can reach -50c in the winter nothx
[2023-02-16T14:29:04Z] <sewn> wth are you in antarctica
[2023-02-16T14:29:18Z] <midfavila> no but an arctic storm did just pass through the other week
[2023-02-16T14:29:18Z] <midfavila> so
[2023-02-16T14:29:25Z] <midfavila> also kind of yes in a way
[2023-02-16T17:29:39Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: do you even get this bs with sbase cp? cp: /tmp/1750/extract/fontconfig/etc/fonts/conf.d/10-hinting-slight.conf -> /etc/fonts/conf.d/./10-hinting-slight.conf: same file
[2023-02-16T17:29:57Z] <midfavila> are you using my configuration package?
[2023-02-16T17:30:01Z] <midfavila> if so then yes
[2023-02-16T17:30:12Z] <midfavila> i should probably look at it at some point but i barely use scalable fonts any more
[2023-02-16T17:30:19Z] <midfavila> so it's like
[2023-02-16T17:30:19Z] <midfavila> eh
[2023-02-16T17:30:20Z] <sad_plan> no, im just using sbase. ive had this issue for some time. removing fontconfig first, will work
[2023-02-16T17:30:45Z] <sad_plan> same here: cp: /tmp/11946/extract/baselayout/etc/mtab -> /etc/./mtab: same file
[2023-02-16T17:31:17Z] <sad_plan> what configure package are you refering to btw? I got curious
[2023-02-16T17:33:08Z] <midfavila> oh i have a repo on my gitea to store some of my configs and i install them using kiss
[2023-02-16T17:33:21Z] <midfavila> or at least i used to
[2023-02-16T17:33:25Z] <midfavila> maybe i got rid of it idk
[2023-02-16T17:33:30Z] <midfavila> i haven't really played with kiss since my laptop broke
[2023-02-16T17:33:44Z] <midfavila> don't have much energy as of late
[2023-02-16T17:34:04Z] <sad_plan> I see. what are you using now instead?
[2023-02-16T17:34:10Z] <midfavila> i'm still using kiss
[2023-02-16T17:34:15Z] <midfavila> i'm just not working on my distro 
[2023-02-16T17:34:20Z] <sad_plan> ah, just not messed with it. gotchu
[2023-02-16T17:34:24Z] <midfavila> ye
[2023-02-16T17:34:45Z] <midfavila> the next time i install kiss it'll be my own hard fork, and it'll break compat with basically everything i use atm
[2023-02-16T17:34:59Z] <midfavila> so before i do that i need to write software for most of my daily needs
[2023-02-16T17:35:06Z] <midfavila> and that requires more time and energy than i have rn
[2023-02-16T17:35:14Z] <sad_plan> I bet. still going to use tcc and bearssl?
[2023-02-16T17:35:28Z] <midfavila> indeed
[2023-02-16T17:35:32Z] <sad_plan> cool
[2023-02-16T17:36:46Z] <sad_plan> im considering trying out bearssl too, but Im abit torn as to why I even should. would probably end up installing libressl anyway due to some packages..
[2023-02-16T17:36:58Z] <sad_plan> so I probably wont :p
[2023-02-16T17:37:00Z] <midfavila> tcc/{s, u}base/netbsd-curses/libz/tinyalsa/bearssl+libtls/tinyx+xaw etc will comprise the core as i'm sure i've mentioned endless times in the past
[2023-02-16T17:37:00Z] <midfavila> and if you don't have a reason to use bearssl, use libre/open
[2023-02-16T17:37:12Z] <midfavila> bearssl is good if you want a very, very small and very, very simple tls implementation
[2023-02-16T17:37:20Z] <midfavila> it's not good if you want to use preexisting software
[2023-02-16T17:37:50Z] <sad_plan> might I add checking out sndio? instead of alsa. should be able to use tinyalsa + sndio.
[2023-02-16T17:38:09Z] <midfavila> why would i use tinyalsa+sndio instead of tinyalsa
[2023-02-16T17:38:13Z] <sad_plan> sure. I like minimal software, but to some extent
[2023-02-16T17:38:18Z] <midfavila> sell me on it
[2023-02-16T17:38:19Z] <sad_plan> sndio is smaller than alsa
[2023-02-16T17:38:34Z] <midfavila> sure but i still need alsa utils and stuff
[2023-02-16T17:38:39Z] <midfavila> at least while i continue to use linux
[2023-02-16T17:38:50Z] <midfavila> or is sndio standalone?
[2023-02-16T17:39:00Z] <midfavila> i know obsd can use it directly
[2023-02-16T17:39:01Z] <sad_plan> sndio is standalone
[2023-02-16T17:39:18Z] <sad_plan> both mpv and ffmpeg supports it
[2023-02-16T17:39:32Z] <midfavila> don't care too much about existing software supporting it
[2023-02-16T17:39:37Z] <midfavila> care more about the overall complexity of the tech stack
[2023-02-16T17:39:56Z] <midfavila> sndio+tinyalsa from my perspective wouldn't offer much in exchange for the increased complexity
[2023-02-16T17:40:22Z] <midfavila> maybe i'll look into it when i start writing a music player
[2023-02-16T17:40:22Z] <sad_plan> iirc, sndio is less complex. but I might be wrong here
[2023-02-16T17:40:33Z] <midfavila> sure but
[2023-02-16T17:40:43Z] <midfavila> i still need alsa sitting on the disk to take advantage of it under linux
[2023-02-16T17:40:49Z] <midfavila> so it's a non-starter
[2023-02-16T17:41:35Z] <sad_plan> why? do you use packages that strictly use alsa-lib?
[2023-02-16T17:42:26Z] <midfavila> i intend to write software that uses it, so
[2023-02-16T17:42:46Z] <midfavila> idk like i said i'll probably look into sndio in the future because i don't have much information to go off of rn
[2023-02-16T17:43:06Z] <midfavila> but just looking at it like i would normally, it doesn't seem like adding it to the mix rn would get me anything
[2023-02-16T17:43:37Z] <sad_plan> the idea was initially to just use something else than alsa-lib+tinyalsa. for me anyway
[2023-02-16T17:43:52Z] <sad_plan> Ive used it in the past, but now I cant for the life of me get it to work. im not sure why
[2023-02-16T17:45:05Z] <sad_plan> but back to what I initially was curious about; you havent had the issue I mentioned with sbase cp?
[2023-02-16T17:45:40Z] <midfavila> not that i can recall, but then i don't make a habit of installing fontconfig and friends 
[2023-02-16T17:45:47Z] <midfavila> neither xaw nor motif need them
[2023-02-16T17:46:07Z] <sad_plan> hm, baselayout?
[2023-02-16T17:47:12Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-02-16T17:47:20Z] <sad_plan> hm.. strange
[2023-02-16T19:57:06Z] <shokara_> sndio might be standalone on openbsd, but as I understand it, doesn't it just sit on top of alsa in linux?
[2023-02-16T19:58:06Z] <midfavila> ^my concern
[2023-02-16T19:59:46Z] <shokara_> the only benefit I see with this is having per-program sound control without needing something more complex like pulseaudio/pipewire or jack1/2
[2023-02-16T20:00:27Z] <shokara_> but personally, the only time I ever used per-program sound control was when I had online classes and I had music playing in the background
[2023-02-16T20:00:37Z] <midfavila> yeah it's a meme
[2023-02-16T20:00:50Z] <midfavila> even then a lot of programs that play back audio have inbuilt volume control
[2023-02-16T20:01:02Z] <shokara_> and I have a physical volume knob that I use instead on my amp
[2023-02-16T20:01:06Z] <shokara_> much more convenient
[2023-02-16T20:01:15Z] <midfavila> like obviously it would be nice if the sound subsystem of the kernel managed that instead of individual programs duplicating functionality, but while in rome...
[2023-02-16T20:01:34Z] <shokara_> ackhsuallyra, oss had that but it got deprecated
[2023-02-16T20:01:47Z] <shokara_> and removed in recent kernels iirc
[2023-02-16T20:01:48Z] <midfavila> yeah in 1993 lmao
[2023-02-16T20:01:57Z] <midfavila> or thereabouts
[2023-02-16T20:01:57Z] <midfavila> kind of irrelevant these days
[2023-02-16T20:02:14Z] <shokara_> the only place I still see oss being used is in freebsd
[2023-02-16T20:02:16Z] <shokara_> so yeah
[2023-02-16T20:02:33Z] <midfavila> when i get around to hacking on operating systems i'll probably start contributing to sortix
[2023-02-16T20:03:54Z] <midfavila> or, well, i'll look at it
[2023-02-16T20:04:05Z] <midfavila> i don't like having to duplicate effort but c++ for an OS isn't something i want
[2023-02-16T20:04:38Z] <shokara_> I personally don't want c++ in anything
[2023-02-16T20:04:54Z] <midfavila> in all seriousness i don't know enough about OO or C++ to seriously critique it
[2023-02-16T20:05:07Z] <midfavila> but i do know that c++ and associated tools have reps for being overly complex
[2023-02-16T20:05:08Z] <shokara_> I really dislike its syntax
[2023-02-16T20:05:24Z] <midfavila> i still wouldn't mind writing an OS in scheme
[2023-02-16T20:05:48Z] <shokara_> I find it to be a bastardization of C's cleaner syntax.
[2023-02-16T20:06:00Z] <shokara_> a scheme os like a lisp machine?
[2023-02-16T20:06:17Z] <midfavila> dunno! maybe even a boring old posix implementation
[2023-02-16T20:06:35Z] <shokara_> that would still be very neat
[2023-02-16T20:06:40Z] <midfavila> i'm really not that knowledgeable about computing, so i can't say what i'd like the system's architecture to be
[2023-02-16T20:07:16Z] <shokara_> I only know of os's written in c, c++, rust, go (all with some assembly sprinkled in), and forth
[2023-02-16T20:07:37Z] <midfavila> but i *do* know that i'd like to have a scheme r4rs-like language without garbage collection or automatic memory management to make the kernel, and then atop that use r7rs-l for userspace programs
[2023-02-16T20:07:53Z] <midfavila> write a microkernel perhaps so that stuff that would normally be in-kernel can have garbage collection 
[2023-02-16T20:08:09Z] <midfavila> gc would need to be optional though so you can write realtime code
[2023-02-16T20:08:30Z] <midfavila> i know of a couple oddball OSes
[2023-02-16T20:08:38Z] <midfavila> one written in haskell and another in common lisp
[2023-02-16T20:08:59Z] <midfavila> https://programatica.cs.pdx.edu//House/
[2023-02-16T20:09:01Z] <midfavila> haskell OS
[2023-02-16T20:09:16Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/froggey/mezzano/
[2023-02-16T20:09:18Z] <midfavila> common lisp OS
[2023-02-16T20:09:30Z] <midfavila> there are also OSes written in pascal
[2023-02-16T20:09:45Z] <midfavila> as well as modula/modula-2 and oberon
[2023-02-16T20:10:04Z] <midfavila> those being the p-system, the lilith operating system(s), and the oberon system
[2023-02-16T20:12:42Z] <midfavila> aa most of what i want to do is like
[2023-02-16T20:12:42Z] <midfavila> usually the subject of a PhD thesis goddamn
[2023-02-16T20:12:47Z] <midfavila> i hate being a degreelet aaaaaaaaaaa
[2023-02-16T20:33:42Z] <davidgarland> as far as languages go I wish there were something like MLton for Standard ML but with haskell's typeclasses
[2023-02-16T20:34:15Z] <davidgarland> MLton monomorphizes and defunctionalizes everything, so it doesn't have unnecessary boxing all over the place
[2023-02-16T20:35:16Z] <midfavila> i keep hearing people talk about Standard ML but it's too bigged-brained for me to really get rn
[2023-02-16T20:35:24Z] <midfavila> seems cool though
[2023-02-16T20:35:30Z] <davidgarland> nah you could understand it easy
[2023-02-16T20:35:37Z] <davidgarland> I mean the module system has some annoying ad hoc shit to it but
[2023-02-16T20:35:40Z] <davidgarland> core langauge is simple
[2023-02-16T20:35:44Z] <davidgarland> *language
[2023-02-16T20:35:55Z] <midfavila> meant more like, the underlying concepts 
[2023-02-16T20:36:00Z] <midfavila> language design and all that
[2023-02-16T20:36:04Z] <davidgarland> ah
[2023-02-16T20:40:16Z] <davidgarland> he hasn't done an article on algorithm W / J for typechecking (for that I'd look up "how ocaml typechecker works" or smth like that, there's a nice writeup for it) but I have a friend who does a blog that details some of that kind of stuff: https://compiler.club
[2023-02-16T20:40:57Z] <davidgarland> if implementation is what interests you
[2023-02-16T20:41:20Z] <midfavila> will definitely look, but a cursory glance shows it's way beyond me atm
[2023-02-16T20:41:20Z] <midfavila> and yeah, it definitely does - i'd like to design interpreters and compilers and stuff in the future - but my everything is too shoddy for that rn
[2023-02-16T20:42:51Z] <shokara_> davidgarland: does he have an rss/atom feed?
[2023-02-16T20:43:35Z] <davidgarland> unsure, I'll ask him once firefox is finished reinstalling, it won't launch because libvpx got an update lol
[2023-02-16T20:50:31Z] <davidgarland> shokara_: asked and he said "I don't have one because I maintain the blog as a kind of awkward static site"
[2023-02-16T20:50:35Z] <davidgarland> to quote him word for word
[2023-02-16T20:51:15Z] <midfavila> your friend is my spirit animal
[2023-02-16T20:51:22Z] <shokara_> ah that's still fine
[2023-02-16T20:51:33Z] <shokara_> he still has a very cool site
[2023-02-16T22:41:55Z] <midfavila> http://opencircuitdesign.com/xcircuit/
[2023-02-16T22:41:58Z] <midfavila> this looks pretty cool