[2023-03-17T07:57:41Z] <sewn> Hi
[2023-03-17T09:04:41Z] <testuser[m]123> giu
[2023-03-17T09:04:41Z] <testuser[m]123> hi
[2023-03-17T17:11:03Z] <midfavila> jfc i hate that IBM's site demands JS 
[2023-03-17T17:11:09Z] <midfavila> all I want is a hypertext version of the CUA spec
[2023-03-17T17:16:38Z] <illiliti> you must suffer
[2023-03-17T17:17:21Z] <midfavila> i'll suffer through a lack of documentation, not a lack of specification 
[2023-03-17T17:17:27Z] <midfavila> that's one step too far illiliti
[2023-03-17T17:19:46Z] <illiliti> email ibm and ask them for text version
[2023-03-17T17:19:54Z] <midfavila> considering it tbh\
[2023-03-17T17:20:26Z] <midfavila> might also see if i can get a hardcopy version 
[2023-03-17T17:20:57Z] <midfavila> i'm certain that 95% of the reason Athena programs feel clunky and gross is that they have no consistent UI
[2023-03-17T17:21:34Z] <midfavila> the toolkit itself isn't particularly sophisticated, sure, but no less so than its contemporaries, and those programs are perfectly usable, so...
[2023-03-17T17:21:35Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-03-17T17:21:38Z] <midfavila> big brain deducation at work
[2023-03-17T17:21:41Z] <midfavila> deduction
[2023-03-17T17:21:43Z] <midfavila> fucking
[2023-03-17T17:21:44Z] <midfavila> aa
[2023-03-17T17:21:47Z] <midfavila> i'm going to shut up now
[2023-03-17T17:23:14Z] <midfavila> https://inv.riverside.rocks/watch?v=6ywXBNpc-To&listen=1
[2023-03-17T17:23:53Z] <midfavila> been listening to this and "dedication" played while i was typing "deduction" and my brain brain'd
[2023-03-17T18:07:21Z] <midfavila> oh also sewn after looking at the output of the command you posted the other day (asking about name substitution or whatever in rc, you used the syntax ${var##.*}.ext) you can just do the following to get the same results: for(i in *.png){convert $i $i.jpg}
[2023-03-17T18:07:21Z] <midfavila> my original response was overly verbose because it was my (incorrect) understanding that the shell syntax you used was replacing the .png extension with a .jpg, which was incorrect
[2023-03-17T18:08:01Z] <sewn> cat.png.jpg
[2023-03-17T18:08:05Z] <midfavila> ${i##.*}.ext also seems to be equivalent (at least on a surface level) to "${i}.ext" so i'm not really sure what's going on there
[2023-03-17T18:08:23Z] <midfavila> uh, yeah, what's wrong with that. running your command in bash, dash and oksh all results in that same sort of output
[2023-03-17T18:08:27Z] <sewn> I suppose . is used as a delimiter but this shouldn't happen
[2023-03-17T18:08:38Z] <midfavila> 'convert' is part of imagemagick right? it's probably what's removing the extra extension
[2023-03-17T18:08:44Z] <sewn> yeah prob
[2023-03-17T18:08:57Z] <midfavila> if you wanted to remove it in shell itself you would need to use cut 
[2023-03-17T18:09:05Z] <sewn> not really a solution but a workaround lol
[2023-03-17T18:09:10Z] <midfavila> uh, no
[2023-03-17T18:09:17Z] <midfavila> what you're using is a feature of *imagemagick*
[2023-03-17T18:09:19Z] <midfavila> not your shell
[2023-03-17T18:09:31Z] <shokara_> can't you use %%.* to get rid of the extension in shell expansion?
[2023-03-17T18:09:32Z] <sewn> so its a workaround to a missing feature in the shell.
[2023-03-17T18:09:37Z] <shokara_> instead of ##.*
[2023-03-17T18:09:42Z] <midfavila> it's not a missing feature, it's *literally* the purpose of cut
[2023-03-17T18:09:48Z] <midfavila> to split text based on delimiters
[2023-03-17T18:09:51Z] <sewn> mid
[2023-03-17T18:10:55Z] <midfavila> %%.* does seem to get the job done, shokara_, but idk, it feels wrong to have the shell do that
[2023-03-17T18:11:03Z] <midfavila> same with using it for arithmetic
[2023-03-17T18:11:07Z] <shokara_> \_(:/)_/
[2023-03-17T18:11:15Z] <midfavila> idk just personal preference speaking there
[2023-03-17T18:11:16Z] <shokara_> agreed for arithmetic
[2023-03-17T18:11:38Z] <midfavila> the shell is a command language, not a mathematics or text manipulation one, so trying to shove all those extra features in there is just... bleeegh
[2023-03-17T18:11:48Z] <shokara_> mhm, but it works
[2023-03-17T18:12:00Z] <midfavila> barely, and it's hard to read >.>;
[2023-03-17T18:12:15Z] <shokara_> just because it isn't correct nor readable doesn't mean it's not right :D
[2023-03-17T18:13:04Z] <midfavila> oh huh hold on
[2023-03-17T18:14:28Z] <midfavila> nvm
[2023-03-17T18:14:28Z] <shokara_> but I do remember seeing % and %% used for removing or substituting text in my shell's man page
[2023-03-17T18:14:42Z] <shokara_> last occurence*
[2023-03-17T18:14:50Z] <midfavila> yeah it's either POSIX or a de facto extension 
[2023-03-17T18:14:58Z] <shokara_> I think it's latter
[2023-03-17T18:16:42Z] <midfavila> nah they're POSIX
[2023-03-17T18:16:43Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-03-17T18:20:13Z] <sewn> basic arithmetic is expected for a script language
[2023-03-17T18:20:28Z] <midfavila> bc, dc and hoc are all superior to sh
[2023-03-17T18:20:32Z] <midfavila> when it comes to mathematics
[2023-03-17T18:20:34Z] <shokara_> but you can also just pipep to a separate calculator
[2023-03-17T18:20:36Z] <sewn> I said basic 
[2023-03-17T18:20:37Z] <shokara_> i.e. bc
[2023-03-17T18:20:47Z] <midfavila> iunno i disagree
[2023-03-17T18:21:02Z] <midfavila> i think that shell has an overly verbose and complex syntax and it's also kind of redundant
[2023-03-17T18:21:17Z] <sewn> I agree with the syntax parts
[2023-03-17T18:21:23Z] <midfavila> i mean, why implement string manipulation and arithmetic operators when POSIX already guarantees awk, sed, bc and dc?
[2023-03-17T18:21:34Z] <sewn> also turnary
[2023-03-17T18:21:55Z] <midfavila> i don't know why you're so obsessed with ternary, but bc can do arbitrary bases
[2023-03-17T18:22:28Z] <shokara_> arbitrary bases for logarithms?
[2023-03-17T18:22:54Z] <midfavila> my bc can, at least, it seems
[2023-03-17T18:23:09Z] <midfavila> log(x, b) returns log base b of x
[2023-03-17T18:23:11Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-03-17T18:23:30Z] <shokara_> what bc are you using?
[2023-03-17T18:23:36Z] <midfavila> gavin howard's version
[2023-03-17T18:23:46Z] <shokara_> are you importing a bc file that containes definitions for these math functions?
[2023-03-17T18:24:31Z] <midfavila> looks like it is part of its library, yes. 
[2023-03-17T18:25:33Z] <shokara_> just asking since gnu bc doesn't seem to include it
[2023-03-17T18:25:41Z] <shokara_> (not on kiss at the moment)
[2023-03-17T18:25:50Z] <midfavila> fair
[2023-03-17T19:52:12Z] * sewn uploaded an image: (400KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/envs.net/7415fef2040e18eecf465bd68bfd797c8ef18ace/1679079605268711.png >
[2023-03-17T19:52:14Z] <sewn> midfavila: 
[2023-03-17T20:16:50Z] <midfavila> CDE port for KISS 2nite bby
[2023-03-17T20:57:37Z] <midfavila> managed to get it to build and start dtlogin, just couldn't get to the actual desktop
[2023-03-17T20:57:43Z] <midfavila> standalone applications run just fine
[2023-03-17T20:58:05Z] <midfavila> one thing that's kind of annoying is that there are race conditions in the build because of the reliance on yacc/lex 
[2023-03-17T21:32:38Z] <midfavila> https://www.jwz.org/blog/2022/11/psa-do-not-use-services-that-hate-the-internet/