2019-09-27T02:01:57 #kisslinux <Suoder> Hi, How can I enable some scripts to run on boot?
2019-09-27T04:44:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sudoer: Edit your /etc/inittab and add '::sysinit:/path/to/script'.
2019-09-27T04:59:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Working on the rust update now.
2019-09-27T04:59:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Had to rewrite the musl/libressl patch.
2019-09-27T05:02:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > 1.38's rust-std tarball size(180MB) is bigger than 1.37's(60MB) about three times.
2019-09-27T05:02:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wow great
2019-09-27T05:03:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rust grew 120MB.
2019-09-27T05:27:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Very interesting read: https://i.imgur.com/Jjij32Z.png
2019-09-27T05:27:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Image full of text apologies.
2019-09-27T05:29:37 #kisslinux <icyphox> https://stopthemingmy.app/
2019-09-27T05:29:42 #kisslinux <icyphox> relevant?
2019-09-27T05:33:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sorta
2019-09-27T05:33:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't like that argument at all.
2019-09-27T05:33:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If I want to theme something, why can't I?
2019-09-27T05:34:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It should matter if it breaks GNOME's UX or design guidelines.
2019-09-27T05:34:08 #kisslinux <icyphox> i think it's more towards distros distributing themes
2019-09-27T05:34:29 #kisslinux <icyphox> you can theme it if you want, but they don't want their apps shipped differently out of the box
2019-09-27T05:34:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't understand why people use GTK/QT they're obviously only for GNOME/KDE now.
2019-09-27T05:34:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You're a second class citizen to their needs.
2019-09-27T05:35:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> fltk exists and it's small/lightweight compared to both GTK/QT: https://www.fltk.org/
2019-09-27T05:36:11 #kisslinux <icyphox> oh TIL about fltk
2019-09-27T05:36:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A distribution should be able to ship a theme too.
2019-09-27T05:36:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> fltk is cross platform too (Windows, MacOS, Linux etc)
2019-09-27T05:36:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The issue with themes is that they aren't actually supported in GTK. They're a "hack" (according to the GNOME developers).
2019-09-27T05:37:16 #kisslinux <icyphox> oh, so fltk is another "implementation" of gtk?
2019-09-27T05:37:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So the argument is really "stop shipping themes since they're a hack and don't 100% work so it makes GTK look bad".
2019-09-27T05:38:25 #kisslinux <icyphox> yeah i mean, i get that they want uniformity -- but that's pretty selfish to try and enforce it
2019-09-27T05:39:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a different GUI toolkit.
2019-09-27T05:39:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > FLTK (pronounced "fulltick") is a cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit for UNIX®/Linux® (X11), Microsoft® Windows®, and MacOS® X. FLTK provides modern GUI functionality without the bloat and supports 3D graphics via OpenGL® and its built-in GLUT emulation.
2019-09-27T05:39:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > FLTK is designed to be small and modular enough to be statically linked, but works fine as a shared library. FLTK also includes an excellent UI builder called FLUID that can be used to create applications in minutes.
2019-09-27T05:39:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If GTK had a proper theming API there'd be 0 functional issues with themes (minus new bugs in the API itself of course).
2019-09-27T05:40:16 #kisslinux <icyphox> right, gotcha
2019-09-27T05:40:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear
2019-09-27T06:49:51 #kisslinux <unternet> this is so sad. gnome2 was perfect. back then, with two great desktop choices, i was actually recommending linux to non-technical people, even made my mom switch over from windows. but gnome3 shattered all that, now there are a bazillian forks each with their own faults that I can't with good concience recommend to my parents anymore :(
2019-09-27T06:56:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The "Linux desktop" can't exist with the current landscape of things. The reason the "Windows desktop" or "MacOS desktop" exists is that it's a single environment that is always available (and doesn't change). This is what GNOME have been moving towards for a long time now and you'll see this come to light when GNOME on wayland is the only way to run GNOME. Wayland dictates this kind of lock-in
2019-09-27T06:56:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> and GNOME aren't working towards Wayland standards. We're heading towards a future of apps only working on GNOME or only working on KDE. Linux is becoming more "Windowsy" for the sake of creating the "Linux desktop" which comes at a loss of what currently makes Linux great. Freedom of choice. This "movement" is backed by companies of course. See:
2019-09-27T06:56:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.html
2019-09-27T06:57:57 #kisslinux <unternet> such a shame
2019-09-27T06:59:01 #kisslinux <unternet> and at the same time, microsoft tries really hard to make windows more appealing with their efforts on WSL
2019-09-27T07:01:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Microsoft will release a Linux distribution, I've been saying this for a while.
2019-09-27T07:02:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Microsoft my also buy Canonical, that's a possibility too.
2019-09-27T07:02:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> may*
2019-09-27T07:03:31 #kisslinux <unternet> alright, looks like i need to get my keyboard working in kiss xorg soon...
2019-09-27T07:11:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Crestwave: This may interest you https://github.com/dylanaraps/pfetch/blob/master/pfetch#L280-L315
2019-09-27T07:25:28 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Cool. I was considering something like that to remove a flag when building a package but decided that `sed` was way more practical for that purpose. Sometimes I go overboard with the purism :P
2019-09-27T07:25:44 #kisslinux <Crestwave> I'm not sure what you mean by "$arch' ends up being the hostname(?) on Haiku"?
2019-09-27T07:27:28 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Also, technically Microsoft already released a Linux distribution for their IoT devices
2019-09-27T07:28:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In your screenshot 'host' displayed your system's hostname no?
2019-09-27T07:31:21 #kisslinux <Crestwave> That was $arch? It says that $arch is uname -m and that returns x86_64
2019-09-27T07:31:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh
2019-09-27T07:31:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Huh
2019-09-27T07:32:31 #kisslinux <Crestwave> It's from when you set host to the hostname
2019-09-27T07:32:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2019-09-27T07:33:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fixed
2019-09-27T07:34:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So bootstrapping rust just grew from 140 crates to 280 (with an additional 150 just for cargo).
2019-09-27T07:34:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Jesus
2019-09-27T07:34:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This also happens in 3 stages.
2019-09-27T07:34:49 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Also: "there is no other way to get host information". If `uname -m` didn't work, there actually a `getarch` utility
2019-09-27T07:35:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That just returns the architecture no?
2019-09-27T07:35:12 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Any idea why it grew so much?
2019-09-27T07:35:40 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Yes, so does `uname -m`?
2019-09-27T07:37:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > It's from a change to how the compiler's own libraries are built, and those rlibs are currently included in rust-std, even though they're unstable for outside users. I'm working on reducing this
2019-09-27T07:38:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This also caused an increase in the std tarball from 60MB to 180MB.
2019-09-27T07:41:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Upstream issue: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/62486
2019-09-27T07:41:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> From July though each release has made it even larger.
2019-09-27T07:42:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Issue opened last week about the recent size increase was directed to 62486
2019-09-27T07:42:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/64605
2019-09-27T07:42:20 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Well, I guess that's one of the prices of its features. It and stuff written in it are kinda annoying to package, though.
2019-09-27T07:42:47 #kisslinux <icyphox> ugh, the entire rust ecosystem is slowly becoming like js'
2019-09-27T07:43:06 #kisslinux <icyphox> big and bloated, with tons of micro-packages
2019-09-27T07:44:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A lot of it is due to them forking llvm and vendoring it in the source tarballs. The same goes for the hundreds and hundreds of (internal and external) crates used, they're all vendored in.
2019-09-27T07:45:31 #kisslinux <Crestwave> On Haiku, it had to be cross-compiled as it runs out of memory when building. And to package Rust programs, I had to write a tool to generate the dependency info because there were so many of them
2019-09-27T07:45:54 #kisslinux <icyphox> that sucks
2019-09-27T07:46:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Dependencies are insane with rust, it's like npm.
2019-09-27T07:46:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This has more information on its size: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/61978
2019-09-27T07:47:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > there is a documentation directory that contains rustdoc/mdbook of various components. Each component has its very own copy of fonts (each almost half of a MB large). It's repeated multiple times. I'm sure much can be saved by using a shared copy of those fonts.
2019-09-27T07:47:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > rust's copy of LLVM is 76 MiB while julia's copy of LLVM is 48 MB (both uncompressed). Why is that the case? Rust has LLVM 8.0 and julia 6.0 but that can't be the reason, has LLVM grown this much in size between two versions?
2019-09-27T07:48:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > save analysis of all std crates is being stored. Using json, the save analysis format is extremely verbose. It contains repetitive stuff like references to the same source file over and over.
2019-09-27T07:48:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > rust-std also includes the compiler crates, and with #59800 there's duplication for these as the same code is included in the rlibs and rustc_driver's dylib.
2019-09-27T07:50:22 #kisslinux <Crestwave> To be fair, there seems to be reasons behind much of its bloat and they seem to be working on the ones without any
2019-09-27T07:51:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Of course.
2019-09-27T07:52:08 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Just annoying for packagers. Here's a Haiku recipe for a "cat(1) clone with wings": https://github.com/Crestwave/haikuports/blob/bat/sys-apps/bat/bat-0.12.1.recipe
2019-09-27T07:53:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Jeus
2019-09-27T07:53:57 #kisslinux <icyphox> holy shit. i was expecting maybe like 10 deps
2019-09-27T07:54:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Jesus*
2019-09-27T07:54:05 #kisslinux <icyphox> but that's nuts
2019-09-27T07:54:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> bat does it all wrong though.
2019-09-27T07:54:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> cat just concatenates files
2019-09-27T07:54:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> bat is something else entirely.
2019-09-27T07:54:35 #kisslinux <icyphox> correct, that too
2019-09-27T07:54:46 #kisslinux <icyphox> most of us just use cat(1) incorrectly
2019-09-27T07:57:05 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Yeah, bat is the worst I've seen so far. The others I've seen have around 40-60 dependencies, though
2019-09-27T07:58:45 #kisslinux <icyphox> that's still bonkers
2019-09-27T07:58:57 #kisslinux <Crestwave> One of the reasons that there's so much is because it seems to require to pull in dependencies for other platforms
2019-09-27T07:58:58 #kisslinux <icyphox> left-pad is going to happen all over again
2019-09-27T07:59:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Cargo depends on a crate for '$HOME' which depends on two(?) crates for Windows.
2019-09-27T07:59:57 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Yep, winapi. There are also crates pulled in for Fuchsia, Redox, etc.
2019-09-27T08:00:21 #kisslinux <icyphox> wait, cargo has deps too? like i can't just build cargo having just rustc?
2019-09-27T08:00:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> cargo depends on 150~ external crates.
2019-09-27T08:00:36 #kisslinux <icyphox> wtf
2019-09-27T08:00:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rust itself depends on a fuck ton of crates too.
2019-09-27T08:01:10 #kisslinux <icyphox> that makes no sense to me
2019-09-27T08:01:28 #kisslinux <icyphox> so there's no way for me to build rust without an internet connection
2019-09-27T08:01:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I wish there were a C compiler that could be used to bootstrap rust. There is one but it doesn't work yet(?)
2019-09-27T08:01:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You *can* cache the downloads though it's a pain in the ass.
2019-09-27T08:02:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The downloads to bootstrap change randomly.
2019-09-27T08:02:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Whenever a new build of the bootstrap stuff is done.
2019-09-27T08:02:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So it goes by build date.
2019-09-27T08:02:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then you have to create the directory tree in rust's source and cp the tarballs there.
2019-09-27T08:03:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then hope their Python build system detects them and uses them.
2019-09-27T08:03:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My rust build just finished.
2019-09-27T08:03:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 7 hours
2019-09-27T08:03:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox takes 2 hours for reference.
2019-09-27T08:04:06 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Huh. Why do I always hear of Firefox/Chromium taking so long (like days) on Gentoo?
2019-09-27T08:04:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Chromium takes longer.
2019-09-27T08:05:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Chromium takes upwards of 5-8 hours depending on jumbo_build.
2019-09-27T08:05:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> neofetch cpu
2019-09-27T08:05:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> cpu: Intel i7-6500U (4) @ 3.100GHz
2019-09-27T08:07:30 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Nice
2019-09-27T08:08:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Pushed LLVM 9.0.0, Clang 9.0.0 and rust 1.38.0 to the repositories.
2019-09-27T08:09:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://getkiss.org/news/20190927a/
2019-09-27T08:09:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/d6646e5be25482061638d62bad3689e5ce8df721
2019-09-27T08:09:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Pretty painless on my end.
2019-09-27T08:10:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just had to rewrite our patch for rust.
2019-09-27T08:13:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Crestwave: Our firefox build in KISS is probably a little faster since we disable a bunch of stuff.
2019-09-27T08:13:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-gconf
2019-09-27T08:13:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-profiling
2019-09-27T08:13:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-accessibility
2019-09-27T08:13:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-tests
2019-09-27T08:13:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-system-extension-dirs
2019-09-27T08:13:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-parental-controls
2019-09-27T08:13:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-debug-symbols
2019-09-27T08:13:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-callgrind
2019-09-27T08:13:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-vtune
2019-09-27T08:14:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-crashreporter
2019-09-27T08:14:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-updater
2019-09-27T08:14:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-dbus
2019-09-27T08:14:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-eme
2019-09-27T08:14:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-necko-wifi
2019-09-27T08:14:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-webrtc
2019-09-27T08:14:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-pulseaudio
2019-09-27T08:14:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-jemalloc
2019-09-27T08:14:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ac_add_options --disable-startup-notification
2019-09-27T08:16:34 #kisslinux <icyphox> you guys disable webrtc? won't you need it for calls etc.?
2019-09-27T08:21:11 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Enabling those probably wouldn't make it *that* much longer, though. Maybe I should've tried building it when I used Gentoo
2019-09-27T08:21:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webrtc is a privacy nightmare so we disable it by default.
2019-09-27T08:21:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can enable it in your own builds though.
2019-09-27T08:22:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb an hour or so
2019-09-27T08:23:08 #kisslinux <icyphox> interesting... don't open source solutions like jitsi rely on webrtc though?
2019-09-27T08:23:14 #kisslinux <icyphox> woop, there he goes
2019-09-27T08:24:23 #kisslinux <unternet> videoconferencing is a mess overall
2019-09-27T08:25:35 #kisslinux <icyphox> yeah true
2019-09-27T08:26:25 #kisslinux <unternet> compiled the vboxguest drivers into the kernel but X still won't let me use the keyboard -.-
2019-09-27T08:27:07 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Should you even need those drivers to use the keyboard?
2019-09-27T08:27:45 #kisslinux <icyphox> vboxguest drivers are only for display / other hardware support, right?
2019-09-27T08:27:48 #kisslinux <unternet> probably not. but i have no clue what drivers i need
2019-09-27T08:28:45 #kisslinux <icyphox> yeah you shouldn't need those drivers for kb
2019-09-27T08:31:31 #kisslinux <unternet> mouse and kb are connected to a dock that connects to my laptop via thunderbolt. so i could see virtualbox having trouble translating that. but the mouse works..
2019-09-27T09:37:22 #kisslinux <nestman> i have built clang and llvm before, are they still the same?
2019-09-27T09:44:26 #kisslinux <unternet> they were updated to 9.0.0 2.5 hours ago
2019-09-27T09:56:27 #kisslinux <nestman> unternet: dylanaraps updated them before
2019-09-27T09:56:38 #kisslinux <nestman> then reverted them back
2019-09-27T09:57:12 #kisslinux <nestman> but i still have the builds stored in my cache
2019-09-27T09:57:28 #kisslinux <nestman> i wonder if those are the same as now
2019-09-27T10:32:57 #kisslinux <__honey__> Greetings...
2019-09-27T10:33:55 #kisslinux <__honey__> just reading through the FAQ...
2019-09-27T10:34:28 #kisslinux <__honey__> thought I'd question why you guys are excluding that software specifically
2019-09-27T10:34:52 #kisslinux <__honey__> dbus, wayland, coreutils, etc
2019-09-27T10:43:03 #kisslinux <__honey__> oh, I see
2019-09-27T10:43:10 #kisslinux <__honey__> kinda like gentoo in some way
2019-09-27T10:43:37 #kisslinux <__honey__> but I still dont get the coreutils part though
2019-09-27T10:47:51 #kisslinux <Crestwave> coreutils is pretty bloated
2019-09-27T10:48:17 #kisslinux <__honey__> oh?
2019-09-27T10:48:30 #kisslinux <__honey__> hmm...
2019-09-27T10:48:36 #kisslinux <__honey__> what is the suggested alternative?
2019-09-27T10:48:45 #kisslinux <Crestwave> KISS uses BusyBox IIRC
2019-09-27T10:49:11 #kisslinux <__honey__> why not write a coreutils alternative in bash?
2019-09-27T10:49:28 #kisslinux <Crestwave> You can't replace all the coreutils with Bash
2019-09-27T10:49:41 #kisslinux <Crestwave> and Bash is *much* slower than C
2019-09-27T10:49:52 #kisslinux <__honey__> then why is the package manager is written in bash?
2019-09-27T10:49:54 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Not to mention that Bash is also bloated and not preinstalled in KISS IIRC
2019-09-27T10:49:59 #kisslinux <Crestwave> The package manager is written in POSIX sh
2019-09-27T10:50:07 #kisslinux <__honey__> isn't the author a bash fan?
2019-09-27T10:50:09 #kisslinux <Crestwave> The default shell is ash from BusyBox
2019-09-27T10:50:12 #kisslinux <__honey__> he wrote some bash stuff
2019-09-27T10:50:26 #kisslinux <__honey__> that's contradicting views
2019-09-27T10:50:32 #kisslinux <__honey__> by one guy
2019-09-27T10:50:37 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Not really?
2019-09-27T10:50:56 #kisslinux <__honey__> well, he uses bash for other stuff
2019-09-27T10:51:04 #kisslinux <__honey__> then hates on it?
2019-09-27T10:51:05 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Yes, but not for the base system
2019-09-27T10:51:24 #kisslinux <Crestwave> I don't think he really hates on it, it's just bloated
2019-09-27T10:51:25 #kisslinux <__honey__> yeah, but aren't shell scripts slow too?
2019-09-27T10:51:46 #kisslinux <Crestwave> dash is way, way faster than Bash. I'm pretty sure ash is magnitudes faster, too
2019-09-27T10:52:07 #kisslinux <konimex> I don't think dylan hates bash
2019-09-27T10:52:36 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Anyway, the biggest point is that coreutils can't be fully written in pure Bash
2019-09-27T10:52:36 #kisslinux <nestman> he just like his things simple
2019-09-27T10:52:49 #kisslinux <__honey__> shell scripts aren't simple
2019-09-27T10:52:59 #kisslinux <nestman> depends
2019-09-27T10:53:14 #kisslinux <Crestwave> POSIX sh is minimal and available in every UNIX(-like) system
2019-09-27T10:53:20 #kisslinux <konimex> I'd like you to define "simple"
2019-09-27T10:53:34 #kisslinux <__honey__> well, the package manager is a complex piece of software written in a language not suitable
2019-09-27T10:53:55 #kisslinux <konimex> since, well, dylan has pointed that "simple" mean different things to different people
2019-09-27T10:54:01 #kisslinux <__honey__> it relies on wget which relies on other code
2019-09-27T10:54:29 #kisslinux <nestman> i believe that's how the UNIX principle works
2019-09-27T10:54:30 #kisslinux <__honey__> what's the context of simple here though?
2019-09-27T10:54:39 #kisslinux <dithpri> yeah, unix is all about modularity
2019-09-27T10:54:48 #kisslinux <__honey__> that's not modular
2019-09-27T10:54:53 #kisslinux <konimex> ...
2019-09-27T10:55:12 #kisslinux <nestman> lol
2019-09-27T10:55:14 #kisslinux <dithpri> how is it not
2019-09-27T10:55:19 #kisslinux <konimex> "do one thing and do it well"
2019-09-27T10:55:28 #kisslinux <__honey__> the package manager doesn't do one thing
2019-09-27T10:55:48 #kisslinux <nestman> okay, i'm done here
2019-09-27T10:56:03 #kisslinux <dithpri> I'd argue it's more one-thingy than having a package manager not using wget but having that code rewritten
2019-09-27T10:56:27 #kisslinux <konimex> you know, I'll let dylan answer since I don't have any authority on package managers, I just like mine straightforward and not inside some C mumbo jumbo
2019-09-27T10:57:09 #kisslinux <__honey__> but if the whole point is to keep stuff simple and write only in shell scripts, wouldn't bash be more effictive and feature rich?
2019-09-27T10:57:23 #kisslinux <konimex> bash is sometimes not available in systems
2019-09-27T10:57:28 #kisslinux <dithpri> why not write it in haskell
2019-09-27T10:57:30 #kisslinux <konimex> #!/bin/sh is POSIX
2019-09-27T10:57:30 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Bash is more feature rich but it's not necessary here
2019-09-27T10:57:40 #kisslinux <nestman> yeah why not Haskell
2019-09-27T10:57:51 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Is haskell even provided?
2019-09-27T10:57:57 #kisslinux <konimex> no
2019-09-27T10:58:06 #kisslinux <konimex> I wouldn't even attempt to package haskell personally
2019-09-27T10:58:23 #kisslinux <konimex> rust is enough pain as it is
2019-09-27T10:59:04 #kisslinux <Crestwave> There you have it. It's basically never part of the base system.
2019-09-27T10:59:07 #kisslinux <__honey__> but why portablility is a big thing when you're designing stuff that works on a system with foreign principles
2019-09-27T10:59:19 #kisslinux <Crestwave> KISS has a less is more principle
2019-09-27T10:59:23 #kisslinux <nestman> real pain is compiling rust first time after installing ccache
2019-09-27T10:59:25 #kisslinux <konimex> define "foreign principles"
2019-09-27T10:59:39 #kisslinux <__honey__> aka not the common approach
2019-09-27T10:59:43 #kisslinux <konimex> yeah that's why I don't use ccache personally
2019-09-27T10:59:44 #kisslinux <Crestwave> If something can be written in sh instead of Bash have less software in the base system, then that would be better by that philosophy
2019-09-27T10:59:48 #kisslinux <konimex> define "common approach"
2019-09-27T10:59:53 #kisslinux <Crestwave> *to have
2019-09-27T11:00:03 #kisslinux <dithpri> define "define"
2019-09-27T11:00:07 #kisslinux <Crestwave> lol
2019-09-27T11:00:07 #kisslinux <__honey__> lol
2019-09-27T11:00:10 #kisslinux <konimex> hah
2019-09-27T11:00:15 #kisslinux <__honey__> you're not being serious aren't you?
2019-09-27T11:00:21 #kisslinux <nestman> can someone just provide their binaries lol
2019-09-27T11:00:21 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Who?
2019-09-27T11:00:26 #kisslinux <nestman> You?
2019-09-27T11:00:33 #kisslinux <__honey__> well, yep...
2019-09-27T11:00:41 #kisslinux <konimex> I meant, what is considered "common approach"? using systemd is common
2019-09-27T11:00:49 #kisslinux <konimex> so it must be common approach
2019-09-27T11:01:03 #kisslinux <__honey__> yeah, you brought that argument up too
2019-09-27T11:01:12 #kisslinux <__honey__> what's wrong with systemd as an init system?
2019-09-27T11:01:14 #kisslinux <Crestwave> I think his point was that portability doesn't matter when it's part of the base system
2019-09-27T11:01:27 #kisslinux <__honey__> it gets so much hate
2019-09-27T11:01:42 #kisslinux <Crestwave> To keep it short, systemd is more
2019-09-27T11:01:48 #kisslinux <nestman> it's does things beside being an init
2019-09-27T11:01:49 #kisslinux <__honey__> how so?
2019-09-27T11:02:05 #kisslinux <__honey__> doesn't that simplify stuff for you?
2019-09-27T11:02:05 #kisslinux <dithpri> I used to like systemd until I read about systemd-homed
2019-09-27T11:02:08 #kisslinux <konimex> as an init system, I dare to say it's better than openrc, but it's now udev, logind, and even $HOME manager
2019-09-27T11:02:13 #kisslinux <nestman> like managing the home directory
2019-09-27T11:02:29 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Is that part of the base systemd?
2019-09-27T11:02:33 #kisslinux <__honey__> but that'll make the system even more managable and simple
2019-09-27T11:02:46 #kisslinux <dithpri> It's monolithic and doesn't keep things simple, although linux is monolithic too
2019-09-27T11:02:54 #kisslinux <konimex> "simple" for the laymen, of course
2019-09-27T11:02:58 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Anyway, to keep it short, systemd is more because BusyBox already has an init included
2019-09-27T11:03:11 #kisslinux <konimex> who don't care about what is underneath the system
2019-09-27T11:03:16 #kisslinux <__honey__> but busybox is monolithic too
2019-09-27T11:03:31 #kisslinux <konimex> unlike systemd, you can choose what to disable in busybox ala Linux kernel
2019-09-27T11:03:35 #kisslinux <Crestwave> But it's minimal and can be easily replaced
2019-09-27T11:03:52 #kisslinux <Crestwave> If you want coreutils, you can totally use it instead
2019-09-27T11:03:53 #kisslinux <nestman> yeah but it's just a compiled set of simple things lol
2019-09-27T11:03:58 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Same with systemd, dbus, etc. etc.
2019-09-27T11:04:13 #kisslinux <Crestwave> It's much harder to replace systemd and co.
2019-09-27T11:04:21 #kisslinux <__honey__> how?
2019-09-27T11:04:22 #kisslinux <dithpri> ^ this
2019-09-27T11:05:16 #kisslinux <nestman> package it yourself
2019-09-27T11:05:26 #kisslinux <Crestwave> There's actually already a repo with it IIRC
2019-09-27T11:05:31 #kisslinux <konimex> https://github.com/fanboimsft/kissD
2019-09-27T11:05:39 #kisslinux <nestman> ^
2019-09-27T11:05:43 #kisslinux <__honey__> interesting
2019-09-27T11:06:39 #kisslinux <nestman> there, you can find all the things you perceive as simple
2019-09-27T11:07:04 #kisslinux <__honey__> but what makes busybox so simple when it relies on one of the beast compiler that are gcc and/or clang/llvm
2019-09-27T11:07:10 #kisslinux <__honey__> both with incredibly huge codebases
2019-09-27T11:07:16 #kisslinux <konimex> oh come on
2019-09-27T11:07:18 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Does systemd not?
2019-09-27T11:07:25 #kisslinux <__honey__> I mean... if you'd follow the UNIX principles, why not just use kencc?
2019-09-27T11:07:27 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Doesn't the Linux kernel only build with gcc unless you patch it?
2019-09-27T11:07:33 #kisslinux <nestman> lol
2019-09-27T11:07:35 #kisslinux <__honey__> well yeah, exactly
2019-09-27T11:07:35 #kisslinux <Crestwave> You're taking things to the extreme
2019-09-27T11:08:03 #kisslinux <Crestwave> KISS tries to use less software when possible
2019-09-27T11:08:21 #kisslinux <__honey__> isn't plan 9 from bells a lot less and more UNIX-y?
2019-09-27T11:08:38 #kisslinux <__honey__> afterall, it was designed by the UNIX authors
2019-09-27T11:08:41 #kisslinux <Crestwave> And?
2019-09-27T11:08:50 #kisslinux <__honey__> that's less
2019-09-27T11:08:51 #kisslinux <Crestwave> dylan's not going to fork and maintain an entire operating system by himself
2019-09-27T11:08:57 #kisslinux <__honey__> it's already maintained
2019-09-27T11:08:59 #kisslinux <__honey__> 9front.org
2019-09-27T11:09:02 #kisslinux <__honey__> duh
2019-09-27T11:09:28 #kisslinux <dithpri> lol
2019-09-27T11:09:33 #kisslinux <dithpri> suckless.org
2019-09-27T11:09:41 #kisslinux <Crestwave> And a lot of software probably doesn't run on it. Again, you're taking things to the extreme
2019-09-27T11:09:59 #kisslinux <__honey__> but it's less
2019-09-27T11:10:08 #kisslinux <konimex> less what
2019-09-27T11:10:08 #kisslinux <nestman> and useless
2019-09-27T11:10:18 #kisslinux <__honey__> and it also has a hypervisor for running other foreign software
2019-09-27T11:10:21 #kisslinux <__honey__> aka linux stuff
2019-09-27T11:10:40 #kisslinux <__honey__> http://man.9front.org/1/vmx
2019-09-27T11:10:54 #kisslinux <__honey__> there's also the good old linuxemu
2019-09-27T11:11:02 #kisslinux <dithpri> side-question: what is the default kiss compiler?
2019-09-27T11:11:12 #kisslinux <Crestwave> gcc, probably?
2019-09-27T11:11:26 #kisslinux <__honey__> for all linux it's gcc anyway
2019-09-27T11:11:32 #kisslinux <dithpri> uhh nah
2019-09-27T11:11:35 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Using a VM would mean running an entire Linux system, so might as well cut the middle man out
2019-09-27T11:11:36 #kisslinux <dithpri> what about tcc clang
2019-09-27T11:11:43 #kisslinux <konimex> clang is available
2019-09-27T11:11:53 #kisslinux <konimex> and I'm planning to do a full clang build for kiss
2019-09-27T11:12:11 #kisslinux <__honey__> linux requires heavy patching to compile with clang
2019-09-27T11:12:20 #kisslinux <konimex> not anymore
2019-09-27T11:12:22 #kisslinux <__honey__> the old patches repo is now no longer maintained
2019-09-27T11:12:27 #kisslinux <__honey__> oh?
2019-09-27T11:12:45 #kisslinux <nestman> i believe iirc someone's trying to completely replace gcc with clang and llvm
2019-09-27T11:12:52 #kisslinux <konimex> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=clang-linux-53&num=1
2019-09-27T11:13:00 #kisslinux <nestman> was it you konimex
2019-09-27T11:13:24 #kisslinux <konimex> I think I mentioned it here few weeks ago
2019-09-27T11:13:50 #kisslinux <konimex> planning to replace as many GNU things as possible for my final project in uni
2019-09-27T11:14:02 #kisslinux <konimex> also https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LLVM-9.0-Clang-9.0-Features
2019-09-27T11:14:29 #kisslinux <__honey__> so... kisslinux is not acutally following UNIX principles, it's just a bare minimum linux with some shell scripts, correct me if im wrong
2019-09-27T11:14:51 #kisslinux <dithpri> which, I would say, besides the linux kernel, is indeed unix principles
2019-09-27T11:15:14 #kisslinux <__honey__> what are the UNIX principles?
2019-09-27T11:15:31 #kisslinux <dithpri> time to create pure UNIX KISS and call it KISS/kFreeBSD
2019-09-27T11:15:40 #kisslinux <nestman> lol
2019-09-27T11:15:58 #kisslinux <konimex> __honey__: you can say the same for nearly all Linux system except Inspur K-UX and EulerOS
2019-09-27T11:16:12 #kisslinux <konimex> since they're the only UNIX® Linux
2019-09-27T11:16:20 #kisslinux <nestman> "do one thing and do it well"
2019-09-27T11:16:23 #kisslinux <dithpri> __honey__: basically "do one thing and do it well" and "everything is a file"
2019-09-27T11:16:29 #kisslinux <__honey__> BSD is derived from the original UNIX, not Linux though
2019-09-27T11:16:42 #kisslinux <nestman> "write programs that work with each other and not systemd"
2019-09-27T11:16:57 #kisslinux <nestman> "use an abacus"
2019-09-27T11:17:03 #kisslinux <__honey__> also, if everything is supposed to be a file, why sockets are not presented with a /net filesystem
2019-09-27T11:17:07 #kisslinux <__honey__> or graphics?
2019-09-27T11:17:14 #kisslinux <__honey__> also, does X11 do graphics well
2019-09-27T11:17:20 #kisslinux <__honey__> it doesn't do one thing certainly
2019-09-27T11:17:48 #kisslinux <dithpri> "use text streams and non-binary ASCII but handle newlines as a special cas
2019-09-27T11:17:53 #kisslinux <dithpri> *case
2019-09-27T11:18:19 #kisslinux <__honey__> is that what ioctl()s doing?
2019-09-27T11:18:25 #kisslinux <dithpri> __honey__: plan9 brought the file philosophy to networking
2019-09-27T11:18:33 #kisslinux <__honey__> so?
2019-09-27T11:19:34 #kisslinux <dithpri> there is socket files in POSIX too IIRC
2019-09-27T11:19:53 #kisslinux <__honey__> could you link me to the specific chapter within the POSIX standard that states that?
2019-09-27T11:20:45 #kisslinux <konimex> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/V2_chap02.html#tag_15_10
2019-09-27T11:20:49 #kisslinux <konimex> this one?
2019-09-27T11:21:20 #kisslinux <__honey__> these are not presented within the file system, only in the standard C library
2019-09-27T11:21:35 #kisslinux <__honey__> you can't use "UNIX" tools like cat, grep, echo on them
2019-09-27T11:21:45 #kisslinux <konimex> okay
2019-09-27T11:21:48 #kisslinux <__honey__> that's not "everything is a file"
2019-09-27T11:22:00 #kisslinux <konimex> so... what should dylan do, then?
2019-09-27T11:22:15 #kisslinux <__honey__> who's dylan?
2019-09-27T11:22:27 #kisslinux <konimex> dylanaraps, the KISS creator of course
2019-09-27T11:22:31 #kisslinux <__honey__> ohh
2019-09-27T11:22:32 #kisslinux <__honey__> right
2019-09-27T11:22:33 #kisslinux <__honey__> so...
2019-09-27T11:22:44 #kisslinux <dithpri> __honey__: WhY isN'T meMoRy pReSentEd as A FiLe unDeR /mem/proc_id
2019-09-27T11:22:59 #kisslinux <__honey__> it actually is
2019-09-27T11:23:04 #kisslinux <__honey__> read on procfs
2019-09-27T11:24:04 #kisslinux <dithpri> it's not a contiguous view though so I can't use cat and grep on it
2019-09-27T11:24:22 #kisslinux <__honey__> you don't want to do that, trust me
2019-09-27T11:24:34 #kisslinux <dithpri> WHY WOULD YOU WANT SOCKET FILES THEN
2019-09-27T11:24:36 #kisslinux <__honey__> that'll fuckup your nice tty
2019-09-27T11:24:38 #kisslinux <dithpri> It's the same issue
2019-09-27T11:24:41 #kisslinux <dithpri> ffs
2019-09-27T11:24:47 #kisslinux <__honey__> so I can do networking within shell scripts
2019-09-27T11:24:54 #kisslinux <__honey__> it's already done in plan 9 afterall
2019-09-27T11:24:57 #kisslinux <dithpri> besides all the goddamn security risks
2019-09-27T11:25:14 #kisslinux <__honey__> heck even the httpd in plan 9 is a shell script
2019-09-27T11:25:36 #kisslinux <dithpri> I'm done here
2019-09-27T11:25:43 #kisslinux <__honey__> finally
2019-09-27T11:25:47 #kisslinux <__honey__> great to waste your time
2019-09-27T11:26:12 #kisslinux <konimex> alright, back to business
2019-09-27T11:26:14 #kisslinux <konimex> so... what should dylan do, then?
2019-09-27T11:26:31 #kisslinux <__honey__> you can go back to watching anime and porn, and look for girls wallpapers because you can't have a girl irl, afterall, the distro logo is a girl, says a lot about you
2019-09-27T11:26:37 #kisslinux <__honey__> fuck basement dwelling losers
2019-09-27T11:26:41 #kisslinux <konimex> ...what?
2019-09-27T11:26:42 #kisslinux <__honey__> great to troll
2019-09-27T11:26:51 #kisslinux <dithpri> lol
2019-09-27T11:26:51 #kisslinux <konimex> well
2019-09-27T11:26:56 #kisslinux <konimex> that was something
2019-09-27T11:27:07 #kisslinux <dithpri> did he fucking login as root?
2019-09-27T11:27:14 #kisslinux <konimex> a VM probably
2019-09-27T11:27:45 #kisslinux <konimex> either way, no point to continue talking about them, we assumed dude would argue in good faith
2019-09-27T11:27:54 #kisslinux <konimex> and behaved like a goddamn manchild in the end
2019-09-27T11:28:12 #kisslinux <konimex> alright, now what?
2019-09-27T11:31:28 #kisslinux <konimex> dylan: it might be the best interest to add channel mode +r
2019-09-27T11:34:33 #kisslinux <dithpri> dammit, he was from Poland
2019-09-27T11:35:25 #kisslinux <dithpri> nvm netherlands
2019-09-27T11:35:45 #kisslinux <dithpri> looked close to one of my polish ips though
2019-09-27T11:35:56 #kisslinux <dithpri> did dylan say when he'll be back?
2019-09-27T11:37:18 #kisslinux <Crestwave> He said that he'd be back in around an hour like three hours ago IIRC
2019-09-27T11:38:16 #kisslinux <dithpri> thanks
2019-09-27T11:51:21 #kisslinux <unternet> arr. missed all the fun
2019-09-27T11:58:51 #kisslinux <icyphox> unternet: i'm catching up from my logs :^)
2019-09-27T12:07:04 #kisslinux <icyphox> wow amazing
2019-09-27T13:41:29 #kisslinux <unternet> regarding gnome: it's ironic but i've been using gnome (but with a lot of their programs replaced with the MATE counterparts which are infinitely more usable) and specifically today i've had countless problems with it (lockscreen not doing what it should, top panel and side dock misbehaving, extensions deactivating randomly, ..
2019-09-27T13:41:45 #kisslinux <unternet> so i've switched to MATE now.
2019-09-27T14:43:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I no longer live in a human rights violation.
2019-09-27T14:43:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This also means my internet is good now.
2019-09-27T14:49:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've been on my feet for the last 7 hours moving house (by foot!), I'm kinda dead now.
2019-09-27T14:51:18 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylanaraps: where were/are you?
2019-09-27T14:51:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Greece
2019-09-27T14:51:42 #kisslinux <icyphox> oh wow
2019-09-27T14:52:01 #kisslinux <icyphox> are you greek?
2019-09-27T14:52:22 #kisslinux <icyphox> i always thought you were in AU
2019-09-27T14:53:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I was in Australia, I moved to Greece a while ago.
2019-09-27T14:54:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm Greek through and through though. Both of my parents and all of my grandparents are Greek. No Australian blood in me (though there's no such thing as Australian blood anyway).
2019-09-27T14:55:04 #kisslinux <icyphox> ahh, gotcha
2019-09-27T14:55:22 #kisslinux <icyphox> that's cool; i was always fascinated with greek mythology as a child
2019-09-27T14:58:57 #kisslinux <unternet> so what part of greece is a human rights violation?
2019-09-27T15:01:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The specific place I was staying though you'll find a place like that wherever you are in the world.
2019-09-27T15:01:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nothing unique to Greece.
2019-09-27T15:01:42 #kisslinux <unternet> ah like that
2019-09-27T16:46:42 #kisslinux <z3bra> yo
2019-09-27T16:55:55 #kisslinux <z3bra> sup there?
2019-09-27T17:28:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> z3bra: hello
2019-09-27T17:33:16 #kisslinux <z3bra> there's not that much people in there
2019-09-27T17:33:38 #kisslinux <KayW> How are you doing Dylan? I haven't really seen you around since nixnest.
2019-09-27T17:36:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm good
2019-09-27T17:36:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A lot has happened off screen but I'm fine.
2019-09-27T17:36:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Moved into a new place today.
2019-09-27T17:36:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just went to the old place to get the cats.
2019-09-27T17:37:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That was a nightmare.
2019-09-27T17:37:58 #kisslinux <KayW> How's the new place?
2019-09-27T17:38:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A lot better. I call the old place a human rights violation.
2019-09-27T17:38:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Literally anything would've been better.
2019-09-27T17:39:39 #kisslinux <KayW> It was really that bad? I had no clue
2019-09-27T17:40:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I moved countries too.
2019-09-27T17:40:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's a lot more that I can't really talk about too.
2019-09-27T17:41:41 #kisslinux <KayW> huh
2019-09-27T17:41:53 #kisslinux <KayW> You lived in Greece right?
2019-09-27T17:42:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I lived in Australia.
2019-09-27T17:42:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Now I'm in Greece.
2019-09-27T17:42:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Long flight
2019-09-27T17:42:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> loooooooooong
2019-09-27T17:43:50 #kisslinux <KayW> God, id imagine. My flight to Spain was like ~8hrs and it was a nightmare
2019-09-27T17:44:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's the problem with Australia, it's so far away from everything.
2019-09-27T17:44:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 20 hours of flights with an 11 hour stop-over.
2019-09-27T17:44:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Torture
2019-09-27T17:44:34 #kisslinux <icyphox> it's relatively close to where i'm at :|
2019-09-27T17:44:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Stopped over in Singapore too.
2019-09-27T17:44:44 #kisslinux <icyphox> isn't AU great tho
2019-09-27T17:44:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> To smoke you have to go outside.
2019-09-27T17:44:50 #kisslinux <icyphox> sunny all the time
2019-09-27T17:44:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So humid.
2019-09-27T17:44:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's a myth.
2019-09-27T17:45:00 #kisslinux <KayW> Singapore seems like a really nice place
2019-09-27T17:45:07 #kisslinux <icyphox> KayW: it's fantastic
2019-09-27T17:45:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Only the north east of Australia is always hot.
2019-09-27T17:45:10 #kisslinux <icyphox> very clean
2019-09-27T17:45:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And the center/top though you can't really live there.
2019-09-27T17:45:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Hobart, etc get really cold (even in Summer).
2019-09-27T17:46:14 #kisslinux <icyphox> beats living in friggin India
2019-09-27T17:46:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's no constant heat in these places.
2019-09-27T17:46:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You probably have more freedom in India.
2019-09-27T17:46:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You hardly have any in Australia.
2019-09-27T17:46:57 #kisslinux <icyphox> how so?
2019-09-27T17:47:14 #kisslinux <icyphox> and no, India is pretty not-free
2019-09-27T17:47:16 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol
2019-09-27T17:47:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Cameras and microphones on every light pole.
2019-09-27T17:47:41 #kisslinux <icyphox> well we have our own share of privacy violating systems
2019-09-27T17:47:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The police's sole job is to raise revenue through fines (they have quotas).
2019-09-27T17:48:02 #kisslinux <icyphox> at least they do their jobs haha
2019-09-27T17:48:03 #kisslinux <KayW> same here in the US
2019-09-27T17:48:13 #kisslinux <KayW> they'll pull people over even if they did nothing wrong
2019-09-27T17:48:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can't drink or smoke on the beach (or in public anywhere).
2019-09-27T17:48:19 #kisslinux <icyphox> the cops here don't give two shits if a woman's being raped right in front of their eyes
2019-09-27T17:48:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Greece has no laws.
2019-09-27T17:48:45 #kisslinux <icyphox> idk man, i'd rather live anywhere else but here
2019-09-27T17:49:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Greece banned smoking indoors in 2008, nothing actually changed.
2019-09-27T17:49:39 #kisslinux <icyphox> how do they enforce it?
2019-09-27T17:49:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can do whatever you like here (so long as you don't harm others).
2019-09-27T17:49:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They don't.
2019-09-27T17:49:49 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol
2019-09-27T17:49:57 #kisslinux <icyphox> that's like saying don't have sex indoors -- wtf
2019-09-27T17:50:15 #kisslinux <KayW> welcome to dumb laws
2019-09-27T17:50:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Basically, the EU puts pressure on Greece to enact laws, Greece complies but nothing actually changes off paper.
2019-09-27T17:51:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The smoking ban indoors applies to businesses fyi, not sure if I was clear.
2019-09-27T17:51:18 #kisslinux <icyphox> oh that makes more sense
2019-09-27T17:51:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can smoke indoors in bars, cafes, restaurants, supermarkets, etc
2019-09-27T17:51:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wherever really.
2019-09-27T17:51:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The bus drivers smoke.
2019-09-27T17:51:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The doctors in the hospitals smoke (in their offices).
2019-09-27T17:51:44 #kisslinux <icyphox> yeesh
2019-09-27T17:52:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> For some reason every set of stairs here is made of marble.
2019-09-27T17:52:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've fallen down stairs twice so far.
2019-09-27T17:52:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A few days ago actually.
2019-09-27T17:52:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Really slippery.
2019-09-27T17:52:48 #kisslinux <KayW> fuck thats gotta suck
2019-09-27T17:52:50 #kisslinux <icyphox> i've always pictured greece to be just marble everywhere
2019-09-27T17:53:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It kinda is.
2019-09-27T17:53:02 #kisslinux <icyphox> and pillars and sculptures
2019-09-27T17:53:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Greece is full of olive trees and old stone walls.
2019-09-27T17:53:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Endless
2019-09-27T17:53:26 #kisslinux <icyphox> that's beautiful
2019-09-27T17:53:44 #kisslinux <icyphox> have you got any pictures?
2019-09-27T17:53:57 #kisslinux <KayW> I kinda wanna go to Greece to see my Uncle's family
2019-09-27T17:54:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Greece is beautiful
2019-09-27T17:54:10 #kisslinux <icyphox> i wanna drop out of uni and travel the world
2019-09-27T17:54:20 #kisslinux <icyphox> with my laptop
2019-09-27T17:54:22 #kisslinux <icyphox> lmao
2019-09-27T17:54:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://www.instagram.com/dylanaraps/
2019-09-27T17:54:56 #kisslinux <KayW> Bruh going to College in the US sucks
2019-09-27T17:54:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All of these photos are Greece until you hit the photo of the tank.
2019-09-27T17:55:14 #kisslinux <KayW> welcome back
2019-09-27T17:55:47 #kisslinux <icyphox> KayW: for real? the uni life there is fkin A
2019-09-27T17:56:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I did 3 years of uni, it's terrible in Australia.
2019-09-27T17:56:13 #kisslinux <KayW> gimmie 5, im changing classes and then i'll explain
2019-09-27T17:56:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Everything after the tank is Australia fyi
2019-09-27T17:57:04 #kisslinux <icyphox> those pictures look really nice man
2019-09-27T17:57:17 #kisslinux <icyphox> followed ya
2019-09-27T17:58:50 #kisslinux <icyphox> what do you use for your photography?
2019-09-27T17:58:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Film
2019-09-27T17:58:59 #kisslinux <icyphox> oh
2019-09-27T17:59:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I started collecting old film cameras a few years ago.
2019-09-27T17:59:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oldest is from 1953.
2019-09-27T17:59:23 #kisslinux <icyphox> wewlad
2019-09-27T17:59:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You find them for around $2-$10 dollars.
2019-09-27T17:59:59 #kisslinux <icyphox> and you digitize them how?
2019-09-27T18:00:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Scans
2019-09-27T18:00:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo-XiuhBnhR/
2019-09-27T18:00:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is with a plastic $1 camera
2019-09-27T18:00:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The floor is the best seat on the train :P
2019-09-27T18:00:38 #kisslinux <icyphox> you bet!
2019-09-27T18:00:58 #kisslinux <icyphox> man i want to try this photography stuff, all i have is my OnePlus 6T
2019-09-27T18:01:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Film is fun since you're limited to X number of photos per roll and you don't know what the photo will look like till it's developed.
2019-09-27T18:01:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Forces you to really slow down.
2019-09-27T18:01:48 #kisslinux <icyphox> i usually just toss it in Snapseed, throw a b/w filter on top of it
2019-09-27T18:01:54 #kisslinux <icyphox> oh yea
2019-09-27T18:03:06 #kisslinux <icyphox> unrelated note, but how do your minimalist ideals translate to your (smart)phone?
2019-09-27T18:03:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't have a phone.
2019-09-27T18:03:23 #kisslinux <icyphox> wow
2019-09-27T18:03:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The only thing I own which I can plug into electricity is this laptop.
2019-09-27T18:04:07 #kisslinux <icyphox> how do you keep in touch with people?
2019-09-27T18:04:14 #kisslinux <icyphox> calls?
2019-09-27T18:04:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't.
2019-09-27T18:04:44 #kisslinux <icyphox> man that takes some serious guts to pull off
2019-09-27T18:04:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I live in a village so I know everyone here.
2019-09-27T18:04:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's enough for me.
2019-09-27T18:05:17 #kisslinux <icyphox> okay wait, how do you post on instagram then? haha
2019-09-27T18:05:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Laptop
2019-09-27T18:05:57 #kisslinux <KayW> ok sorry
2019-09-27T18:06:00 #kisslinux <KayW> some stuff came up
2019-09-27T18:06:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All good
2019-09-27T18:06:29 #kisslinux <KayW> so basically, College in the US consists of Standardized Testing to get into colleges, and debt
2019-09-27T18:06:42 #kisslinux <icyphox> KayW: yeah i nearly joined USC :)
2019-09-27T18:06:57 #kisslinux <KayW> if you dont score well on the SAT/ACT, you're not getting into a good college
2019-09-27T18:07:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Australian university is "free" but not really.
2019-09-27T18:07:23 #kisslinux <icyphox> i got a 1400 something on the SAT
2019-09-27T18:07:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The government takes out a loan in your name when you start university which you pay back once you make X amount per year.
2019-09-27T18:07:39 #kisslinux <KayW> icyphox: thats really good
2019-09-27T18:07:43 #kisslinux <icyphox> lolwat
2019-09-27T18:07:48 #kisslinux <icyphox> folks around me hit 1560
2019-09-27T18:07:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The terms of this loan can change at any time btw
2019-09-27T18:08:04 #kisslinux <KayW> still, a 1400 can get you into some really good college
2019-09-27T18:08:07 #kisslinux <KayW> colleges*
2019-09-27T18:08:15 #kisslinux <icyphox> yeah it's batshit expensive too
2019-09-27T18:08:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I didn't go to high school and I was accepted into university for my Github
2019-09-27T18:08:30 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylanaraps: wow that's really cool
2019-09-27T18:08:35 #kisslinux <KayW> thats the thing, US Student Loan Debt is like, 1.6 Trillion USD
2019-09-27T18:08:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've heard
2019-09-27T18:08:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's insane...
2019-09-27T18:08:47 #kisslinux <icyphox> wew
2019-09-27T18:09:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Australia makes university cheap by having 1/3 of students be foreign.
2019-09-27T18:09:09 #kisslinux <KayW> its unbelievebly fucked
2019-09-27T18:09:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Foreign students pay 10 times more usually.
2019-09-27T18:09:28 #kisslinux <KayW> id imagine
2019-09-27T18:09:30 #kisslinux <icyphox> damn
2019-09-27T18:09:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I did a comp-sci course for two years and it was 6 years out of date.
2019-09-27T18:09:56 #kisslinux <KayW> jesus
2019-09-27T18:09:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not to mention it was all Microsoft stuff.
2019-09-27T18:10:03 #kisslinux <KayW> oh ew
2019-09-27T18:10:14 #kisslinux <icyphox> we learn 8086 here :/
2019-09-27T18:10:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also a whole semester on basic web dev
2019-09-27T18:10:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> html and css
2019-09-27T18:10:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> then php
2019-09-27T18:10:23 #kisslinux <icyphox> yeah and a shit ton of MS
2019-09-27T18:10:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> wew
2019-09-27T18:10:26 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylanaraps: same same
2019-09-27T18:10:44 #kisslinux <icyphox> it's hot garbage, oru course
2019-09-27T18:10:46 #kisslinux <icyphox> our*
2019-09-27T18:10:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> None of the faculty actually know what they're teaching either.
2019-09-27T18:11:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They read from whatever their given and literally can't answer any questions.
2019-09-27T18:11:13 #kisslinux <KayW> yikes
2019-09-27T18:11:23 #kisslinux <icyphox> wow, so AU isn't all that diff from here then huh
2019-09-27T18:11:26 #kisslinux <KayW> that was kinda my java class last year
2019-09-27T18:11:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also, if your solution to a programming problem doesn't match 1:1 with their material they don't accept it.
2019-09-27T18:11:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ie: solve this problem
2019-09-27T18:12:04 #kisslinux <icyphox> yep, we have an online scoring tool which literally compares your solution line by line to what's hardcoded
2019-09-27T18:12:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I suffered in my OOP clases
2019-09-27T18:12:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'd argue with the tutor every class
2019-09-27T18:12:33 #kisslinux <KayW> hey dylan, quick question, do you have the old pfetch code?
2019-09-27T18:12:40 #kisslinux <KayW> i forgot to ask earlier
2019-09-27T18:12:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2019-09-27T18:12:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me dig it up
2019-09-27T18:12:49 #kisslinux <KayW> thanks
2019-09-27T18:13:24 #kisslinux <icyphox> man i stil can't wrap my head around the fact that dylan doesn't have a phone
2019-09-27T18:13:34 #kisslinux <icyphox> does that make me a hopeless millenial
2019-09-27T18:14:48 #kisslinux <KayW> I need my phone, otherwise, how would my parents contact me?
2019-09-27T18:15:15 #kisslinux <icyphox> same tbh
2019-09-27T18:15:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://p.teknik.io/Raw/RDso4
2019-09-27T18:15:25 #kisslinux <icyphox> dunno how dylan pulls it off
2019-09-27T18:15:36 #kisslinux <KayW> thanks dude
2019-09-27T18:15:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wait that's in bash
2019-09-27T18:15:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't think I had this in posix sh actually.
2019-09-27T18:16:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/kiss-utils/blob/master/bin/kiss-fetch
2019-09-27T18:16:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's this too.
2019-09-27T18:16:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Basically what I just sent in POSIX sh but not minified.
2019-09-27T18:17:14 #kisslinux <KayW> http://i.salejandro.me/xIS04.png huh
2019-09-27T18:17:38 #kisslinux <KayW> yeah i was looking for the bash version
2019-09-27T18:17:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 2 secs
2019-09-27T18:18:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try this one: https://p.teknik.io/Raw/vApb9
2019-09-27T18:19:46 #kisslinux <KayW> http://i.salejandro.me/79Cc8.png same error? tf?
2019-09-27T18:22:07 #kisslinux <z3bra> dos2unix ./pfetch-old
2019-09-27T18:22:31 #kisslinux <z3bra> you're welcome :)
2019-09-27T18:29:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Teknik seems to be messing with it.
2019-09-27T18:29:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Works fine for me locally.
2019-09-27T18:30:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://pastebin.com/raw/8PyY7PaF
2019-09-27T18:30:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try this one.
2019-09-27T18:33:14 #kisslinux <KayW> dos2unix was the solution
2019-09-27T18:33:16 #kisslinux <KayW> http://i.salejandro.me/Kgvu0.png
2019-09-27T18:34:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Weird
2019-09-27T18:37:19 #kisslinux <KayW> z3bra: how did you know?
2019-09-27T18:38:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 
 probably
2019-09-27T18:38:33 #kisslinux <KayW> makes sense
2019-09-27T18:38:44 #kisslinux <KayW> yeah ive really never experienced that before
2019-09-27T18:38:54 #kisslinux <KayW> never even heard of dos2unix until now
2019-09-27T18:39:48 #kisslinux <icyphox> oh wow, been a while since i witnessed that haha
2019-09-27T18:44:53 #kisslinux <KayW> welcome
2019-09-27T18:46:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yo yo
2019-09-27T18:46:09 #kisslinux <z3bra> KayW, the error is shown
2019-09-27T18:46:11 #kisslinux <z3bra> 
2019-09-27T18:47:02 #kisslinux <z3bra> windows new lines are CR+LF, while on linux it's only LF
2019-09-27T18:47:19 #kisslinux <z3bra> :x/windows/c/dos/
2019-09-27T18:47:42 #kisslinux <z3bra> so in linux, new lines are 'n', while on dos systems it's 'rn'
2019-09-27T18:49:21 #kisslinux <KayW> huh
2019-09-27T18:49:24 #kisslinux <KayW> TIL
2019-09-27T18:52:38 #kisslinux <z3bra> that quite a common issue, so you better remember it ;)
2019-09-27T18:52:51 #kisslinux <z3bra> now that you run a distro for pros
2019-09-27T18:52:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/dylanaraps/pfetch/commit/ba03cb3cf4dfbc767abce6acd53c07ab5568e23d
2019-09-27T18:52:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> heh
2019-09-27T18:54:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2019-09-27T18:59:10 #kisslinux <KayW> alright, school's over
2019-09-27T18:59:14 #kisslinux <KayW> ill see ya'll around
2019-09-27T19:12:30 #kisslinux <z3bra> mmh? people quit IRC when they're not at school now
2019-09-27T19:12:47 #kisslinux <z3bra> I though that was the other way around :P
2019-09-27T19:13:07 #kisslinux <z3bra> who's the distro creator btw?
2019-09-27T19:13:33 #kisslinux <z3bra> I don't see any op in the namelist
2019-09-27T19:25:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Me
2019-09-27T19:26:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have a thing against moderating discussion, I'm no different to you in a sense.
2019-09-27T19:36:58 #kisslinux <z3bra> so you can make me an op :P
2019-09-27T19:37:01 #kisslinux <z3bra> just kidding
2019-09-27T19:37:11 #kisslinux <z3bra> you did a great job with kiss!
2019-09-27T19:37:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks
2019-09-27T19:48:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I need to sleep
2019-09-27T19:48:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ciao
2019-09-27T20:07:03 #kisslinux <z3bra> cheers