2020-09-15T01:53:52 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @freenode_illiliti:matrix.org: made a branch to test IPv6 in `kirc`: https://github.com/mcpcpc/kirc/tree/ipv6 i’m getting a weird error... but “should” work. also, it “should” prioritize IPv6 now first before IPv4.
2020-09-15T01:55:06 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @freenode_illiliti:matrix.org: example command argument to force IPv6: `kirc -n <nickname> -6`
2020-09-15T02:54:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> mcpcpc: imo the ipv6 variable should be like an int or maybe even a char, it only needs to be able to hold 0 and 1
2020-09-15T03:02:49 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> E5ten: fixed. same goes for verb variable :)
2020-09-15T03:33:01 #kisslinux <muevoid> hi
2020-09-15T03:39:23 #kisslinux <muevoid> dilyn I decided time to try a no libX11 install.
2020-09-15T04:07:24 #kisslinux <dilynm> claudia02: we had a conversation about Falkon and x11extras; do you know if viper requires it? It doesn't seem like it does but I don't recall
2020-09-15T04:10:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> mcpcpc: but yeah I think you should add the termios stuff back I'm pretty sure it's the only way to not have that issue
2020-09-15T04:19:56 #kisslinux <dilynm> Oh! Muevoid: how is it working?
2020-09-15T04:20:09 #kisslinux <dilynm> I'm curious if foot crashes for you without libX11
2020-09-15T04:56:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> I haven't tried it yet.
2020-09-15T04:56:24 #kisslinux <muevoid> got caught up with stuff
2020-09-15T04:56:32 #kisslinux <muevoid> backing up my configs now and going to do a reinstall
2020-09-15T04:56:52 #kisslinux <muevoid> If foot crashes I will try to patch it
2020-09-15T04:57:26 #kisslinux <muevoid> I'm also going to attempt webkit2gtk without libX11
2020-09-15T04:57:39 #kisslinux <muevoid> as I would prefer to avoid qt still
2020-09-15T04:57:47 #kisslinux <muevoid> however not sure if this is viable but we will see
2020-09-15T04:58:24 #kisslinux <muevoid> I don't do much in browser though so hopefully lack of opengl will be ok.
2020-09-15T07:18:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> Anyone on here have an alternative terminal for wayland other then foot
2020-09-15T07:18:31 #kisslinux <muevoid> I had the same issue as dilyn does not work without libX11
2020-09-15T07:19:09 #kisslinux <muevoid> I want to try and fix it however I would prefer to patch it while having sway up so I need a temporary one
2020-09-15T07:53:41 #kisslinux <admicos> muevoid: I use the alacritty from the archived mywayland repo but updated to the latest version
2020-09-15T07:54:00 #kisslinux <admicos> but it's rust, so it might not work out for you :p
2020-09-15T07:54:29 #kisslinux <soliwilos> muevoid: I use this one on wayland: https://github.com/andir/ate (full disclosure, not a KISS user, at least not yet).
2020-09-15T07:58:33 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Thank you both
2020-09-15T07:58:44 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Alacritty is not an option for me but ate looks ok
2020-09-15T07:58:47 #kisslinux <muevoid_> thank you
2020-09-15T07:58:56 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I do know why foot isn't working but not sure how to fix it
2020-09-15T08:58:05 #kisslinux <admicos> why does gimp require a million deps aw man
2020-09-15T09:00:06 #kisslinux <admicos> i don't have a printer anywhere why does it need cups maaan
2020-09-15T09:02:36 #kisslinux <konimex> well people print their designs so might be why it need cups, but yeah should've been an option
2020-09-15T10:15:37 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Does anyone know how makefiles work somewhat decently?
2020-09-15T10:42:44 #kisslinux <admicos> any shell wizards here know if this script can be any simpler?: https://ebc.li/dpty
2020-09-15T10:43:05 #kisslinux <admicos> Trying to make an orphan package detector that also takes build deps into account unlike kiss-orphans
2020-09-15T10:47:51 #kisslinux <mcf> you can replace `cat ... | sed -e expr` with `sed -e expr ...`
2020-09-15T10:48:43 #kisslinux <mcf> `echo * | sed "s/ /n/g"` also known as `ls`
2020-09-15T10:49:03 #kisslinux <admicos> mcf: i didn't want to parse ls though
2020-09-15T10:49:09 #kisslinux <admicos> echo * is a little bit more predictable
2020-09-15T10:50:19 #kisslinux <mcf> how so? when stdout is not a terminal, ls output is predictable: one entry per line
2020-09-15T10:50:40 #kisslinux <admicos> is it?
2020-09-15T10:50:43 #kisslinux <admicos> well, tl
2020-09-15T10:50:44 #kisslinux <admicos> til*
2020-09-15T10:53:05 #kisslinux <mcf> it might be nice to clean up $temp on failure (trap 'rm -rf "$temp"' EXIT)
2020-09-15T10:53:29 #kisslinux <admicos> i assume the EXIT signal happens on clean exits too, right?
2020-09-15T10:53:38 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah, pretty sure
2020-09-15T10:57:42 #kisslinux <admicos> also wow: kiss-orphans: 228 miliseconds, my script: 6 miliseconds
2020-09-15T11:04:14 #kisslinux <merakor> admicos: I didn't write core handling, but here is how I would do on the top of my head.
2020-09-15T11:04:15 #kisslinux <merakor> https://termbin.com/kkf3
2020-09-15T11:06:26 #kisslinux <claudia0> dilynm: I only remember for falkon. (no qt5-x11extras and even x11 backend enabled).
2020-09-15T11:13:29 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @freenode_himmalerin:matrix.org: fyi... latest kirc 0.0.9 release now patches the default.
2020-09-15T11:14:01 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> How is kirc commpares to irssi? Ive been looking at trying it.
2020-09-15T11:21:15 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> muevoids: no real comparison. `kirc` is *much* simpler (< sloc). but depending on how you use irc, it  might be a good option for you.
2020-09-15T11:21:35 #kisslinux <merakor> admicos: https://termbin.com/qspwc
2020-09-15T11:21:57 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @muevoids:matrix.org: *(< 300 sloc)
2020-09-15T11:35:44 #kisslinux <admicos> merakor: woah i need to learn more about shell scripting i have no idea how the "set" parts work :p
2020-09-15T11:36:23 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> E5ten: alright.  hm..
2020-09-15T11:43:28 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @muevoids:matrix.org: i think your best comparison would be to `sic`, but with less multichannel support.
2020-09-15T11:52:00 #kisslinux <claudia0> dilynm: qt5-webengine just finished building ;)
2020-09-15T12:15:20 #kisslinux <dilynm> That took you a while claudia!
2020-09-15T16:01:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> admicos mcf: both the echo and ls bits are unsafe, ls doesn't always represent file names accurately, and the echo thing will split files with spaces into newlines as well, you should do printf '%sn' *
2020-09-15T17:00:24 #kisslinux <mcf> E5ten: in what situation would they be inaccurate?
2020-09-15T17:20:27 #kisslinux <admicos> anyone here using mako, i finally found a better way to get rid of sd-dbus: https://git.ebc.li/kiss/custom/src/branch/main/custom/mako
2020-09-15T17:20:46 #kisslinux <admicos> should work on anything else using sd-dbus (only)
2020-09-15T17:21:10 #kisslinux <admicos> s/get rid of/use without systemd or elogind/
2020-09-15T17:21:37 #kisslinux <E5ten> mcf: unprintable characters in filenames
2020-09-15T17:25:34 #kisslinux <mcf> the only thing in POSIX i see about that is the -q option, which says that implementations may do that by default if the output is a tty
2020-09-15T17:25:47 #kisslinux <mcf> doesn't that imply that it is not default if the output is not a tty?
2020-09-15T17:26:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> mcf: e.g. if I make a filename that's like ötest and I do LC_ALL=C ls, with busybox or toybox ls (sbase works though) the filename is not printed accurately
2020-09-15T17:26:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> busybox does ??test, toybox does 366test
2020-09-15T17:27:56 #kisslinux <mcf> even when redirecting to a non-tty?
2020-09-15T17:29:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> piped LC_ALL=C ls into a read loop that ran wc -c on the files as a test, I got "test: No such file or directory"
2020-09-15T17:29:47 #kisslinux <mcf> interesting. good to know!
2020-09-15T17:29:50 #kisslinux <E5ten> that was with toybox, same thing with busybox
2020-09-15T17:53:19 #kisslinux <periish> set -- sets any string that follows as an argument to the script, admicos
2020-09-15T17:53:39 #kisslinux <admicos> periish: argument, as in "$@" ?
2020-09-15T17:53:53 #kisslinux <periish> if $1 = foo, i can set -- bar to have $1 = bar
2020-09-15T17:54:02 #kisslinux <merakor2> admicos: yeah
2020-09-15T17:54:07 #kisslinux <admicos> so that essentially makes $@ into a global array
2020-09-15T17:54:08 #kisslinux <admicos> interesting
2020-09-15T17:54:13 #kisslinux <periish> not global
2020-09-15T17:54:17 #kisslinux <periish> It's per function
2020-09-15T17:54:19 #kisslinux <admicos> ah
2020-09-15T17:54:22 #kisslinux <admicos> that's a lot more better
2020-09-15T17:54:27 #kisslinux <admicos> when you said argument, i thought it was global
2020-09-15T17:54:29 #kisslinux <periish> As functions have their own set of positional paramaters
2020-09-15T17:54:32 #kisslinux <admicos> oh yeah
2020-09-15T17:54:33 #kisslinux <admicos> dug
2020-09-15T17:54:35 #kisslinux <admicos> duh*
2020-09-15T17:54:44 #kisslinux <periish> `set bar` also works
2020-09-15T17:54:54 #kisslinux <admicos> i assume the -- is for arguments starting with -
2020-09-15T17:54:59 #kisslinux <periish> But normally you're using `set` with variables
2020-09-15T17:55:00 #kisslinux <periish> Yea
2020-09-15T17:55:06 #kisslinux <admicos> gotcha
2020-09-15T17:55:07 #kisslinux <admicos> interesting
2020-09-15T17:55:26 #kisslinux <periish> if you need any shell scripting help, I'm sure any of us would be willing to
2020-09-15T17:55:36 #kisslinux <admicos> i know :)
2020-09-15T17:55:45 #kisslinux <periish> Myself included, of course
2020-09-15T17:56:14 #kisslinux <merakor2> The POSIX manual page on sh and the dash manual are also great resources, they taught me a lot.
2020-09-15T17:57:22 #kisslinux <merakor2> Same, I would love to help whenever.
2020-09-15T18:12:54 #kisslinux <periish> Are there any shells other than ash which include their own editline/readline impl?
2020-09-15T18:13:01 #kisslinux <periish> Busybox ash, that is
2020-09-15T18:13:54 #kisslinux <admicos> iirc zsh uses something called zle
2020-09-15T18:13:57 #kisslinux <admicos> let me double check
2020-09-15T18:14:48 #kisslinux <admicos> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Zsh#Key_bindings "Zsh does not use readline, instead it uses its own and more powerful Zsh Line Editor (ZLE)."
2020-09-15T18:15:21 #kisslinux <periish> Ahaha
2020-09-15T18:15:33 #kisslinux <periish> I don't think I'll be using zsh as a /bin/sh
2020-09-15T18:15:45 #kisslinux <admicos> well, it's a shell
2020-09-15T18:15:57 #kisslinux <admicos> i use it as my login but /bin/sh is dash because fast
2020-09-15T18:19:53 #kisslinux <micr0> yeah zle is dope
2020-09-15T18:23:31 #kisslinux <periish> I don't think I'll ever package zsh for this fork of KISS tbh
2020-09-15T18:27:50 #kisslinux <periish> Hmm
2020-09-15T18:28:05 #kisslinux <periish> Where the hell does libedit store it's libraries?
2020-09-15T18:28:18 #kisslinux <periish> I can't decipher these awful makefiles that autotools generates
2020-09-15T18:30:34 #kisslinux <periish> Does it not generate the libraries until install?????
2020-09-15T18:30:52 #kisslinux <merakor2> periish: It usually stores it in a goddamn .libs directory
2020-09-15T18:30:59 #kisslinux <admicos> what do you expect it's autotools of course it's weird
2020-09-15T18:31:32 #kisslinux <periish> >  stores it in a goddamn .libs directory
2020-09-15T18:31:35 #kisslinux <periish> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
2020-09-15T18:31:52 #kisslinux <periish> There are no dotfiles!!
2020-09-15T18:32:15 #kisslinux <periish> But there is in src
2020-09-15T18:32:20 #kisslinux <periish> Awful
2020-09-15T18:32:23 #kisslinux <merakor2> try find . -name '*.a'
2020-09-15T18:32:55 #kisslinux <merakor2> Did you find it :D
2020-09-15T18:33:57 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh yeah, it is in src/.libs directory
2020-09-15T18:34:04 #kisslinux <merakor2> GNU/Cringe
2020-09-15T18:35:44 #kisslinux <merakor2> (This joke was written in Emacs ERC, so I am a hypocrite)
2020-09-15T18:35:44 #kisslinux <merakor2>
2020-09-15T18:41:55 #kisslinux <periish> ERC?
2020-09-15T18:42:38 #kisslinux <merakor2> One of Emacs' builtin IRC packages
2020-09-15T18:42:55 #kisslinux <eris> Hm, weird errors from dash when I try to build it
2020-09-15T18:43:01 #kisslinux <eris> It complains about undefined symbols
2020-09-15T18:43:06 #kisslinux <eris> Does libedit need ncurses?
2020-09-15T18:43:46 #kisslinux <eris> Actually, I may just need to provide extra commandline options
2020-09-15T18:44:24 #kisslinux <merakor2> Yeah, libedit needs ncurses
2020-09-15T18:44:37 #kisslinux <eris> Ouch
2020-09-15T18:44:43 #kisslinux <eris> I was hoping to avoid vendoring that
2020-09-15T18:46:22 #kisslinux <merakor2> Why?
2020-09-15T18:49:42 #kisslinux <merakor2> You can build libedit statically and use ncurses as a 'make dependency'
2020-09-15T18:49:53 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> not necessarily. it can also be built with libtermcap
2020-09-15T18:50:27 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh, I didn't know that
2020-09-15T18:50:36 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/termcap/termcap-1.3.1.tar.gz
2020-09-15T18:51:59 #kisslinux <claudia02> dilynm: The qt5-update does not resolv my video crash issue :2020-09-15T18:52:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> there is no dilynm in this channel
2020-09-15T18:52:51 #kisslinux <merakor2> There usually is
2020-09-15T18:53:53 #kisslinux <claudia02> thankfully we have https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/ :D
2020-09-15T18:53:54 #kisslinux <merakor2> Logs are also available, so you can see them even when you are offline.
2020-09-15T18:54:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> oh? freenode has a policy that if a channel is logged it needs to be in topic or in a on-join notice
2020-09-15T18:54:55 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> publicly logged, that is
2020-09-15T18:54:57 #kisslinux <merakor2> claudio02: qt5 seems like a pain in the ass as far as I have seen from the chat :D
2020-09-15T18:55:06 #kisslinux <merakor2> It is on the topic
2020-09-15T18:55:18 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> o.0
2020-09-15T18:55:24 #kisslinux <merakor2> s/claudio/claudia/
2020-09-15T19:02:50 #kisslinux <claudia02> merakor2: yeah. In perspecitve what you have to do and what you get its not really worth it..
2020-09-15T19:05:32 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> if you add KDE into the mix, you have a desktop environment that makes use of all your RAM, so you at least know what you bought it for
2020-09-15T19:07:37 #kisslinux <admicos> honestly if all the text was left-to-right monospace, then most of the complexity of gui frameworks would probably be solved. the other would be accessibility afaik
2020-09-15T19:08:48 #kisslinux <admicos> games for example build their own guis all the time but because they don't care about a11y or multiple languages they can afford to do su
2020-09-15T19:08:52 #kisslinux <admicos> do so/
2020-09-15T19:10:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> claudia: I am deeply sorry to hear that :(
2020-09-15T19:11:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> I have terrible cell service so I just keep tabs on the logs so I don't spam the channel with leave/join messages xD
2020-09-15T19:11:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> sh4rm4^bnc: KDE idles at just under 1GB ram usage for me, although it does tend to get exponentially worse
2020-09-15T19:13:00 #kisslinux * sh4rm4^bnc used to use kdevelop until he tried to compile it from source to fix a bug
2020-09-15T19:27:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> dilyn, are you the BDFL ?
2020-09-15T19:28:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> that would be dylanaraps:
2020-09-15T19:28:14 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> dylan is
2020-09-15T19:28:14 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> dilyn is a different dylan
2020-09-15T19:28:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i see
2020-09-15T19:28:25 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yeah my msgs didnt send fast enough :P
2020-09-15T19:28:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'm unique and special
2020-09-15T19:30:43 #kisslinux <merakor2> I see this question at least once a week now :D
2020-09-15T19:30:43 #kisslinux <merakor2>
2020-09-15T19:33:06 #kisslinux <merakor2> sh4rm4^bnc: Dylan is usually more active on day hours EEST
2020-09-15T19:34:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> ouch, so dilyn is the manager to the kiss-kde repo
2020-09-15T19:34:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> means my kde comment was inappropriate :>
2020-09-15T19:37:08 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i wondered why kiss core uses firefox as opposed to palemoon
2020-09-15T19:37:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> since the latter doesnt need rust
2020-09-15T19:37:54 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> nor gtk+3
2020-09-15T19:38:01 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and still supports alsa
2020-09-15T19:38:05 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> gtk+2 is frounded upon
2020-09-15T19:38:12 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i love it
2020-09-15T19:38:26 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> we want to get rid of it afaik
2020-09-15T19:38:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i use only gtk+2 desktop apps on my sabotage desktop
2020-09-15T19:38:44 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I cant use gtk+2 :P
2020-09-15T19:39:20 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> iirc gtk+3 uses like 2x the amount of ram
2020-09-15T19:40:10 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> if I were on x I like gtk+2 but since im on wayland i need to use gtk+3
2020-09-15T19:40:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> ah
2020-09-15T19:40:37 #kisslinux <merakor2> I mean, aren't all graphical toolkits garbage?
2020-09-15T19:40:48 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Yeah basically :P
2020-09-15T19:40:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> most are indeed
2020-09-15T19:40:57 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> fklt
2020-09-15T19:41:03 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i liked that on x
2020-09-15T19:41:12 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> mlib is also good for x
2020-09-15T19:41:26 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i once had the crazy idea to rip the gdi32 part out of wine to make a relatively slim win32-style gui toolkit
2020-09-15T19:41:33 #kisslinux <merakor2> Good ones aren't used widely :^)
2020-09-15T19:41:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's still lighter in resources than gtk+2 and it would allow to easily port some windows gui apps
2020-09-15T19:42:05 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i onlt need gtk+3 for my browser
2020-09-15T19:42:16 #kisslinux <merakor2> muevoids: webkit best kit
2020-09-15T19:42:25 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Yep
2020-09-15T19:42:36 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I got it working fully without bugs except gitlab
2020-09-15T19:42:40 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> cant figure out that website
2020-09-15T19:42:45 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> but authentication and stuff work now
2020-09-15T19:43:04 #kisslinux <merakor2> Protonmail?
2020-09-15T19:43:13 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yes
2020-09-15T19:43:43 #kisslinux <merakor2> nice
2020-09-15T19:44:11 #kisslinux <merakor2> The latest update finally fixed some issues
2020-09-15T19:44:21 #kisslinux <merakor2> Dark themes are finally supported properly
2020-09-15T19:44:24 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i can post build if youd like
2020-09-15T19:45:09 #kisslinux <merakor2> Sure, does it add dependencies?
2020-09-15T19:45:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> sh4rm4^bnc: your kde commit was v valid and appropriate xD it's trash
2020-09-15T19:45:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> :)
2020-09-15T19:45:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> dylan also doesn't like palemoon a lot; https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20200225#c3301462
2020-09-15T19:45:39 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> libtasn1 is only required new one i believe
2020-09-15T19:45:51 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> libsecret may be but i havent tested withour
2020-09-15T19:45:51 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> out*
2020-09-15T19:46:06 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i actually know some kde developers from RL. they're decent people, but they don't seem to understand the suckless philosophy
2020-09-15T19:46:12 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i dont think libsecret would be nescessary
2020-09-15T19:46:32 #kisslinux <merakor2> It should be libsecret, because I had tried with libtasn1 i think.
2020-09-15T19:47:19 #kisslinux <merakor2> Yeah, it doesn't work with libtasn1
2020-09-15T19:47:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> they had perhaps a good idea breaking the kde framework up into parts, probably makes the codebase easier to manage
2020-09-15T19:47:22 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> its causs of a bug upstream
2020-09-15T19:47:32 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> It needs to be built with -DNDEBUG for all cflags and cxx flags or instead of release be minsizerel
2020-09-15T19:47:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> but it's still 70+ libraries so like... eeehhhhh
2020-09-15T19:48:20 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i will post my build file in like 10 to 15 mins I am eating atm but i will be back at pc soon
2020-09-15T19:48:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and C++ :(
2020-09-15T19:49:04 #kisslinux <eris> Palemoon isn't a good replacement for Firefox
2020-09-15T19:49:13 #kisslinux <eris> it doesn't have as good a browser engine
2020-09-15T19:49:13 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> eris, why?
2020-09-15T19:49:20 #kisslinux <eris> Also, gtk+2 is depreciated
2020-09-15T19:49:27 #kisslinux <eris> And has been removed from the repositories
2020-09-15T19:49:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> latest palemoon uses the engine of firefox 68.9
2020-09-15T19:49:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> finally works for all sites, except imgur.com albums
2020-09-15T19:50:01 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> palemoon deve are also agressive
2020-09-15T19:50:03 #kisslinux <eris> we are on firefox 80
2020-09-15T19:50:06 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> devs*
2020-09-15T19:50:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah i know
2020-09-15T19:50:17 #kisslinux <eris> Palemoon fails to work with many of the websites I use
2020-09-15T19:50:19 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I don't like palemoon personally
2020-09-15T19:50:26 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> eris, latest version?
2020-09-15T19:50:33 #kisslinux <eris> Yes
2020-09-15T19:50:49 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I don't like firefox either so take that with a grain of salt
2020-09-15T19:51:13 #kisslinux <eris> Neither, but there's nothing better :/
2020-09-15T19:51:37 #kisslinux <eris> Many of the alternate browser engines are simply not an option
2020-09-15T19:51:37 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Webkit works for me personally but def has issues
2020-09-15T19:51:42 #kisslinux <eris> Chromium is *hell*
2020-09-15T19:51:44 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> anyway i dont have another choice since one of the design philosophies of sabotage is "no binaries" and you can't get rust running without
2020-09-15T19:52:04 #kisslinux <eris> how does it bootstrap itself then
2020-09-15T19:52:10 #kisslinux <eris> Also that's a plain lie
2020-09-15T19:52:23 #kisslinux <eris> You can bootstrap upwards to rust from a C++ toolchain
2020-09-15T19:52:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> or at least without a fucking 30-step process using mrustc as a base
2020-09-15T19:52:35 #kisslinux <eris> Or you can just use the bootstrap
2020-09-15T19:53:08 #kisslinux <merakor2> I believe that anything mozilla produces is crap
2020-09-15T19:53:19 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I cant stand rust.
2020-09-15T19:53:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> eris, i've wrote down all the details in my blog https://sabotage-linux.github.io/blog/3/
2020-09-15T19:53:36 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I know of the upsides and pros
2020-09-15T19:53:41 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> but i really dislike it
2020-09-15T19:53:54 #kisslinux <merakor2> compiling rust is longer than compiling webkit
2020-09-15T19:54:02 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> exactly
2020-09-15T19:54:12 #kisslinux <eris> I can't stand rust either
2020-09-15T19:54:16 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> ill take my segfaults and buffer overflows over rust
2020-09-15T19:54:17 #kisslinux <eris> The culture around it
2020-09-15T19:54:19 #kisslinux <eris> Bleh
2020-09-15T19:54:33 #kisslinux <eris> I know people who thought Git should be written in Rust
2020-09-15T19:54:46 #kisslinux <eris> despite the fact that rust doesn't support the platforms that linux does....
2020-09-15T19:54:55 #kisslinux <merakor2> Lol yeah, some people WORSHIP rust
2020-09-15T19:54:58 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> exactly
2020-09-15T19:55:09 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I wish greetd was written in c :<
2020-09-15T19:55:12 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> like they worship systemd
2020-09-15T19:55:13 #kisslinux <eris> this isn't even a rust worshipper they just have horrible takes
2020-09-15T19:55:25 #kisslinux <merakor2> Yeah, those three things:
2020-09-15T19:55:26 #kisslinux <merakor2> Arch
2020-09-15T19:55:28 #kisslinux <merakor2> Systemd
2020-09-15T19:55:29 #kisslinux <merakor2> Rust
2020-09-15T19:55:44 #kisslinux <eris> Y'all know about SystemR or whatever it was called?
2020-09-15T19:55:51 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yes
2020-09-15T19:55:53 #kisslinux <eris> RiR taken to the logical conclusion
2020-09-15T19:55:58 #kisslinux <eris> I hope
2020-09-15T19:56:07 #kisslinux <admicos> gitoxide
2020-09-15T19:56:22 #kisslinux <admicos> https://github.com/Byron/gitoxide
2020-09-15T19:56:30 #kisslinux <eris> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
2020-09-15T19:56:35 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> my favorite "modern" language is golang.
2020-09-15T19:56:38 #kisslinux <merakor2> Go is fine if it didn't produce humongous binaries
2020-09-15T19:56:42 #kisslinux <admicos> ^
2020-09-15T19:56:44 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> C is still my overally favorite though.
2020-09-15T19:57:00 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> overall*
2020-09-15T19:57:00 #kisslinux <eris> I really dislike Go personally
2020-09-15T19:57:32 #kisslinux <eris> Plus there's effectively no standards for the build systems :<
2020-09-15T19:57:39 #kisslinux <eris> Every Go project rolls their own
2020-09-15T19:58:14 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> #include <github.com/lamer/bullshit>
2020-09-15T19:58:19 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> merakor2 https://termbin.com/z5rg you can ignore wayland thinks and readd in switches if youd like
2020-09-15T19:58:38 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I want an alternative to gomuks
2020-09-15T19:58:39 #kisslinux <eris> And Go is so Google it's laughable
2020-09-15T19:58:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> just like rust is so mozilla
2020-09-15T19:58:55 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i still wouldnt have go if it wasnt for that
2020-09-15T19:59:29 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I dont think of go as google rather as ken thompson
2020-09-15T19:59:45 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> But still not a huge fan of go
2020-09-15T19:59:57 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I would rather have c things
2020-09-15T19:59:59 #kisslinux <eris> I associate it more with Google because a large amount of the language design choices leak through as 'make programmers replaceable'
2020-09-15T20:00:15 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> In fact does anyone know of an alternative to gomuks? in c or cpp
2020-09-15T20:01:16 #kisslinux <merakor2> I mean Go was developed by the same people who have developed C and Plan9, so they have similar programming points.
2020-09-15T20:01:28 #kisslinux <merakor2> and philosophies
2020-09-15T20:01:33 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yeah
2020-09-15T20:01:36 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> simplicity
2020-09-15T20:01:48 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> even the suckless devs say go is a good choice modern language wise
2020-09-15T20:02:04 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> and they obvi have strong ideals with software
2020-09-15T20:02:19 #kisslinux <merakor2> muevoids: Sadly there is no sdk published by matrix, and nobody has implemented the protocol to C yet.
2020-09-15T20:02:30 #kisslinux <admicos> what if we take _go_, and change the ecosystem around it so we don't have to import everything from github
2020-09-15T20:02:30 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> That's unfortunate
2020-09-15T20:02:30 #kisslinux <eris> Suckless aren't really an example to follow imho
2020-09-15T20:02:49 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> the best non-C language i recently encountered is dinolang
2020-09-15T20:02:49 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Yeah i agree
2020-09-15T20:02:57 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> written by one of the GCC developes
2020-09-15T20:03:05 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's fast as hell
2020-09-15T20:03:05 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I just beought it up since they have strong ideals
2020-09-15T20:03:19 #kisslinux <eris> Aye, but said ideals are somewhat inconistent
2020-09-15T20:03:25 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Zig seems promising
2020-09-15T20:03:29 #kisslinux <admicos> sh4rm4^bnc: link? DDG'ing it just shows some random facebook pages
2020-09-15T20:03:43 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> but i havent done too much research
2020-09-15T20:03:48 #kisslinux <eris> Surf demonstrates their lack of self awareness :p
2020-09-15T20:03:53 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> https://github.com/dino-lang
2020-09-15T20:03:53 #kisslinux <admicos> nvm.. ah i think i got it
2020-09-15T20:03:58 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> surf is very slow
2020-09-15T20:04:13 #kisslinux <admicos> surf is just webkit, how is that supposed to be suckless
2020-09-15T20:04:14 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> badwolf is my fav webkit2gtk based browser
2020-09-15T20:04:26 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> they should use netsurf
2020-09-15T20:04:33 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> as backend if they want a suckless one
2020-09-15T20:04:45 #kisslinux <merakor2> But you need to follow web standards, which is impossible to be suckless
2020-09-15T20:04:54 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yeah
2020-09-15T20:04:59 #kisslinux <admicos> netsurf needs more devs, but i don't think suckless people should be them
2020-09-15T20:05:03 #kisslinux <merakor2> Netsurf is a great example for why suckless webengines don't work
2020-09-15T20:05:09 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> the web sucks
2020-09-15T20:05:15 #kisslinux <merakor2> Exactly
2020-09-15T20:05:21 #kisslinux <admicos> let's switch over to gemini
2020-09-15T20:05:32 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> gopher
2020-09-15T20:05:46 #kisslinux <admicos> that'll work too
2020-09-15T20:05:59 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i wish
2020-09-15T20:05:59 #kisslinux <admicos> actually, why not both?
2020-09-15T20:06:06 #kisslinux <eris> https://github.com/dylanaraps/2211 <- Surf is effectively this
2020-09-15T20:06:28 #kisslinux <eris> I don't think Netsurf ever cared about being suckless tbqh
2020-09-15T20:06:30 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I haven't heard of gemini?
2020-09-15T20:06:33 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> care to elaborate
2020-09-15T20:06:38 #kisslinux <eris> They're a browser for RISC OS first and foremost
2020-09-15T20:06:47 #kisslinux <eris> Which is so unfamiliar compared to any OS
2020-09-15T20:06:53 #kisslinux <admicos> muevoids: https://gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-09-15T20:06:59 #kisslinux <admicos> it's essentially gopher with a tiny bit of markdown
2020-09-15T20:07:28 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> no c clients :(
2020-09-15T20:07:38 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> seems nice though
2020-09-15T20:08:12 #kisslinux <admicos> iirc the gemini url for the same page has more clients listed
2020-09-15T20:08:12 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> also speakinf of simple browsers w3m hasnt been compiling for me
2020-09-15T20:08:13 #kisslinux <merakor2> I mean, surf is pretty good for what it is. It is a hackable tiny webkit browser, and that's all I care for.
2020-09-15T20:08:18 #kisslinux <admicos> let me see if i can find some
2020-09-15T20:08:41 #kisslinux <eris> Actually, since this was mentioned earlier
2020-09-15T20:08:48 #kisslinux <merakor2> I don't want to lose 90% of web functionality just for a small browser.
2020-09-15T20:09:01 #kisslinux <eris> I'm curious; what are y'all's thoughts on Plan 9?
2020-09-15T20:09:37 #kisslinux <merakor2> It's good for its time
2020-09-15T20:10:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's developers seemed to be obsessed with luciferianism. BELL labs (baal), inferno, ...
2020-09-15T20:10:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> styx...
2020-09-15T20:10:27 #kisslinux <muevoid> has anyone else had problems with w3m compiling?
2020-09-15T20:11:05 #kisslinux <merakor2> plan9 specific tools are great such as mk and rc shell
2020-09-15T20:11:18 #kisslinux <merakor2> muevoid: no it builds fine for me
2020-09-15T20:11:23 #kisslinux <eris> Inferno, and styx are developed by a seperate company, Vitue Nova :p
2020-09-15T20:11:32 #kisslinux <muevoid> It fails saying it can't find glib-object.h but I have glib installed
2020-09-15T20:11:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and bell labs became "lucent"
2020-09-15T20:11:38 #kisslinux <eris> As is Limbo, their C 2
2020-09-15T20:12:00 #kisslinux <eris> Bell Labs had little to do w/ Lucent or Vitue
2020-09-15T20:12:53 #kisslinux <eris> I think lucent were just oppourtunists
2020-09-15T20:13:20 #kisslinux <merakor2> Jesus, why does w3m ask for glib
2020-09-15T20:13:23 #kisslinux <muevoid> nvm fixed it merakor2
2020-09-15T20:13:24 #kisslinux <eris> Oh my
2020-09-15T20:13:35 #kisslinux <muevoid> Was related to X11 for w3mimg
2020-09-15T20:13:40 #kisslinux <muevoid> I just disabled that
2020-09-15T20:13:46 #kisslinux <eris> > plan9 specific tools are great such as mk and rc shell
2020-09-15T20:13:47 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh, I see.
2020-09-15T20:13:55 #kisslinux <eris> What do you like about mk and rc?
2020-09-15T20:14:21 #kisslinux <merakor2> Their syntax and speed, mostly.
2020-09-15T20:15:03 #kisslinux <muevoid> How is k1ss's website made?
2020-09-15T20:15:16 #kisslinux <muevoid> I really like the style and would like my website to be similar
2020-09-15T20:15:48 #kisslinux <eris> Check out the repository!
2020-09-15T20:15:55 #kisslinux <eris> https://github.com/kisslinux/website
2020-09-15T20:15:58 #kisslinux <eris> Afaik
2020-09-15T20:16:11 #kisslinux <eris> They're made by sed calls to translate plaintext to html
2020-09-15T20:16:35 #kisslinux <eris> You can view the source of the wiki pages by appending .txt
2020-09-15T20:16:56 #kisslinux <eris> And you *should* have a copy of the website included with your installation of `kiss`
2020-09-15T20:17:02 #kisslinux <muevoid> Yes i do
2020-09-15T20:17:05 #kisslinux <eris> Which you can browse via `kiss help`
2020-09-15T20:17:15 #kisslinux <muevoid> Yes I use it all the time :O
2020-09-15T20:17:18 #kisslinux <muevoid> :P*
2020-09-15T20:17:22 #kisslinux <eris> :>
2020-09-15T20:17:29 #kisslinux <eris> It's a very neat functionality
2020-09-15T20:17:36 #kisslinux <eris> Shame I have to get rid of it :<
2020-09-15T20:17:45 #kisslinux <muevoid> Why do you have to?
2020-09-15T20:18:30 #kisslinux <eris> Don't want to have to rewrite all the webpages for my fork
2020-09-15T20:18:34 #kisslinux <muevoid> Ah
2020-09-15T20:18:40 #kisslinux <muevoid> What is your fork?
2020-09-15T20:19:18 #kisslinux <eris> I've got a little bit public rn afaik
2020-09-15T20:19:33 #kisslinux <eris> It's a fork of kiss that uses a custom filesystem hierarchy
2020-09-15T20:19:44 #kisslinux <muevoid> Hmmm what kind?
2020-09-15T20:19:50 #kisslinux <merakor2> Like gobo?
2020-09-15T20:19:59 #kisslinux <muevoid> That would be interesting
2020-09-15T20:20:10 #kisslinux <muevoid> If so does it have a patch for gobohide?
2020-09-15T20:20:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> sabotage does that too. packages live in /opt/$packagename and are symlinked to /
2020-09-15T20:20:57 #kisslinux <merakor2> Those hierarchies give me anxiety for some reason.
2020-09-15T20:21:03 #kisslinux <eris> I don't want /opt
2020-09-15T20:21:13 #kisslinux <eris> or symlinks to /
2020-09-15T20:21:27 #kisslinux <muevoid> Ooooo the kiss website builder is nice.
2020-09-15T20:21:30 #kisslinux <eris> It's a hack and it feels like one
2020-09-15T20:21:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> $ la /include/stdlib.h
2020-09-15T20:21:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            28 Jul 22  2019 /include/stdlib.h -> ../opt/musl/include/stdlib.h
2020-09-15T20:22:06 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> why is it a hack ?
2020-09-15T20:22:24 #kisslinux <eris> merakor: /conf instead of /etc, /bulk instead of /var, no sbin, bin, usr, lib
2020-09-15T20:22:30 #kisslinux <eris> > why is it a hack ?
2020-09-15T20:22:53 #kisslinux <eris> Symbolic links to / defeat features that you could harness
2020-09-15T20:23:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> ?
2020-09-15T20:23:27 #kisslinux <eris> Concurrent libcs
2020-09-15T20:23:32 #kisslinux <eris> Concurrent libc versions
2020-09-15T20:23:40 #kisslinux <eris> Concurrent packages in general
2020-09-15T20:23:58 #kisslinux <eris> if everything is configured to look for these symlinks, it's a bit pointless, aye?
2020-09-15T20:24:01 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> oh, you must have a 3 terabyte hdd
2020-09-15T20:24:15 #kisslinux <eris> I have a 256 GB ssd :^)
2020-09-15T20:24:48 #kisslinux <eris> > /dev/root               238.3G     12.2G    226.0G   5% /
2020-09-15T20:25:17 #kisslinux <eris> df -h output
2020-09-15T20:25:38 #kisslinux <eris> I just like things to be *proper*, if you will
2020-09-15T20:25:48 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> my disk is always 99.9% full, regardless its size
2020-09-15T20:25:57 #kisslinux <eris> I don't like halfarsing things
2020-09-15T20:26:06 #kisslinux <muevoid> I have 228 but only use 5gb
2020-09-15T20:26:24 #kisslinux <eris> And even having /usr/bin/env and /bin/sh feels like a job poorly done
2020-09-15T20:26:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i take it you dont have a collection of youtube-dl'ed stuff
2020-09-15T20:26:32 #kisslinux <eris> Not yet
2020-09-15T20:26:43 #kisslinux <eris> Still need to decide on a format to recreate my collection in
2020-09-15T20:26:46 #kisslinux <muevoid> I have some music
2020-09-15T20:26:58 #kisslinux <muevoid> I as well need to do that
2020-09-15T20:26:58 #kisslinux <eris> OGG? WAV? Vorbis?
2020-09-15T20:27:13 #kisslinux <muevoid> mp3 lol
2020-09-15T20:27:27 #kisslinux <eris> I've done mp3
2020-09-15T20:27:47 #kisslinux <muevoid> Only reason I do is cause the only place to get drm free music afaik by popular artist is amazon
2020-09-15T20:28:03 #kisslinux <eris> I want to write my own music daemon, ysee, and I've not heard the best about mp3's libraries and such
2020-09-15T20:29:35 #kisslinux <eris> merakor2: I didn't get a chance to elaborate further on what my alternate hierarchy entails
2020-09-15T20:29:43 #kisslinux <muevoid> Sorry my bad :P
2020-09-15T20:30:02 #kisslinux <eris> Rather than a standard hierarchy in each package's directory, I opt for a custom one too
2020-09-15T20:30:19 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> eris, how will you workaround #!/bin/sh shebangs and the like? kernel patch?
2020-09-15T20:31:10 #kisslinux <eris> The hierarchy is /exec for executables, /doc for documentation, /inc for headers, /lib for libraries, and /man for manpages
2020-09-15T20:31:29 #kisslinux <muevoid> Why wouldn't man pages be in a subdir in /doc
2020-09-15T20:31:55 #kisslinux <eris> because /doc is a dumping ground for all formats and is generally inconsistent and not interacted with by any programs
2020-09-15T20:32:26 #kisslinux <eris> te dir u/sr/share/doc is traditionally a free for all
2020-09-15T20:32:31 #kisslinux <eris> Oh god birch
2020-09-15T20:32:45 #kisslinux <muevoid> ?
2020-09-15T20:32:46 #kisslinux <eris> The* /usr*
2020-09-15T20:32:51 #kisslinux <eris> It seems to be mangling my messages
2020-09-15T20:33:01 #kisslinux <muevoid> I'm gonna try out kirc
2020-09-15T20:33:13 #kisslinux <eris> Anyway; /usr/share/man however is relatively uniform and standard
2020-09-15T20:33:32 #kisslinux <muevoids> /help
2020-09-15T20:33:41 #kisslinux <muevoid> Lol
2020-09-15T20:33:44 #kisslinux <eris> Everyone respects /usr/share/man/man$section/page.$section
2020-09-15T20:33:45 #kisslinux <merakor> How may we help
2020-09-15T20:33:57 #kisslinux <muevoid> I was trying to figure out how to use kirc xD
2020-09-15T20:34:01 #kisslinux <eris> The file format is the same too, down to using the same macros across implementations '
2020-09-15T20:34:29 #kisslinux <eris> it's all very consistent and shiny down in the man-world compared to /usr/share/doc
2020-09-15T20:35:14 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> admicos, https://dino-lang.github.io/learn/dino.pdf
2020-09-15T20:35:32 #kisslinux <eris> https://0x0.st/iIxg.png
2020-09-15T20:35:42 #kisslinux <eris> 3 chosen at random
2020-09-15T20:35:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> between 30 and 400x faster than python
2020-09-15T20:36:02 #kisslinux <eris> Wow
2020-09-15T20:36:05 #kisslinux <eris> That's impressive
2020-09-15T20:36:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> eris: it botheres me that /exec is the only four character parent dir
2020-09-15T20:36:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> I'm assuming it is a compiled language then?
2020-09-15T20:37:06 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> no, interpreted scripting lang, garbage collected
2020-09-15T20:37:15 #kisslinux <muevoid> Is that result with jit or not?
2020-09-15T20:37:31 #kisslinux <eris> dilyn: Worry not, for in the / level hierarchy, /bulk and /conf exist
2020-09-15T20:37:47 #kisslinux <eris> This is package level hierarchy: /pkg/name/*
2020-09-15T20:38:05 #kisslinux <admicos> you should've called /exec, /run
2020-09-15T20:38:14 #kisslinux <muevoid> Also does anyone have a simple groff document I can test?
2020-09-15T20:38:36 #kisslinux <eris> run is taken by udev and runit
2020-09-15T20:38:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> ^
2020-09-15T20:38:53 #kisslinux <admicos> aw
2020-09-15T20:38:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> why not just do /exe, /blk, /cnf
2020-09-15T20:38:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> :P
2020-09-15T20:39:01 #kisslinux <muevoid> +1
2020-09-15T20:39:02 #kisslinux <eris> Too short
2020-09-15T20:39:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2020-09-15T20:39:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> how about just longform names all-around
2020-09-15T20:39:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> who needs short dirs
2020-09-15T20:39:23 #kisslinux <eris> They basically become as meaningless as their predecessors
2020-09-15T20:39:31 #kisslinux <admicos> . /binaryfiles /programdata /systemconfiguration
2020-09-15T20:39:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> then your filesystem is self-documenting!
2020-09-15T20:39:40 #kisslinux <eris> Oh god
2020-09-15T20:39:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmao
2020-09-15T20:39:54 #kisslinux <eris> That'd be horrible to type when packages need manual intervention
2020-09-15T20:40:06 #kisslinux <admicos> eeh tab completion will solve it
2020-09-15T20:40:08 #kisslinux <admicos> :p
2020-09-15T20:40:13 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> muevoid, dunno, i guess so because it's even 23x faster than pypy
2020-09-15T20:40:16 #kisslinux <eris> ./configure --bindir=/pkg/name/binaryfiles
2020-09-15T20:40:27 #kisslinux <muevoid> Gotcha
2020-09-15T20:40:33 #kisslinux <eris> admicos: not in the text editor
2020-09-15T20:41:11 #kisslinux <eris> I don't have any fancy autocompletion in my text editor
2020-09-15T20:41:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> just symlink /binaryfiles to /bin
2020-09-15T20:41:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> problem solved
2020-09-15T20:41:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> see, these are great ideas. write these down
2020-09-15T20:41:55 #kisslinux <muevoid> Lol
2020-09-15T20:42:04 #kisslinux <muevoid> I'm gonna do it 100%
2020-09-15T20:42:32 #kisslinux <eris> https://0x0.st/iIx6.png
2020-09-15T20:42:33 #kisslinux <eris> Done
2020-09-15T20:43:00 #kisslinux <eris> On a serious note; I'd never actually considered /exe
2020-09-15T20:43:10 #kisslinux <muevoid> I think /exe is more clean
2020-09-15T20:43:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> very windows-esque
2020-09-15T20:43:19 #kisslinux <muevoid> I like the three letter / directories more
2020-09-15T20:43:22 #kisslinux <eris> I suppose I do not have anything to fear in regards to collision
2020-09-15T20:43:35 #kisslinux <eris> But that leaves /bulk and /conf hanging in the air
2020-09-15T20:43:45 #kisslinux <eris> Which are imho much better than /var and /etc
2020-09-15T20:43:56 #kisslinux <muevoid> con blk I think would be nice
2020-09-15T20:44:23 #kisslinux <eris> con is dangerously close to /com
2020-09-15T20:44:36 #kisslinux <eris> Which for some reason still exists
2020-09-15T20:44:39 #kisslinux <eris> Sometimes
2020-09-15T20:45:07 #kisslinux <muevoid> or as dilyn said cnf
2020-09-15T20:45:09 #kisslinux <eris> I do not wish to trifle with powers unknown
2020-09-15T20:45:16 #kisslinux <admicos> cfg?
2020-09-15T20:45:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> Actually
2020-09-15T20:45:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> yes
2020-09-15T20:45:22 #kisslinux <eris> Oh that's an idea
2020-09-15T20:45:23 #kisslinux <muevoid> cfg is great
2020-09-15T20:45:33 #kisslinux <admicos> bulk => dat?
2020-09-15T20:45:39 #kisslinux <muevoid> I like that too
2020-09-15T20:45:53 #kisslinux <eris> I have /pkg/name/data for where packages dump their general data
2020-09-15T20:46:25 #kisslinux <eris> No clue what that is
2020-09-15T20:46:37 #kisslinux <eris> It's.. inconcistent
2020-09-15T20:47:33 #kisslinux <eris> http://0x0.st/iIxl.png
2020-09-15T20:48:17 #kisslinux <eris> I'll definitely take /exe and /cfg for pass 2 of the bootstrap
2020-09-15T20:54:10 #kisslinux <muevoid> welp I just switched to kirc so far I like it. You are the developer of this mcpcpc[m] correct?
2020-09-15T20:58:55 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> muevoid: yup!
2020-09-15T21:00:45 #kisslinux <muevoid> Is there something like a /help command or /h
2020-09-15T21:01:00 #kisslinux <muevoid> /h
2020-09-15T21:01:02 #kisslinux <muevoid> /help
2020-09-15T21:01:05 #kisslinux <muevoid> I suppose not lol
2020-09-15T21:02:53 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> nope! lol.  not yet, at least. :P
2020-09-15T21:03:21 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> would just checkout the project portal for now on gh: https://github.com/mcpcpc/kirc
2020-09-15T21:03:30 #kisslinux <muevoid> kk thank you
2020-09-15T21:03:31 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> for commands
2020-09-15T21:04:14 #kisslinux <muevoid> Ok cool thank you
2020-09-15T21:04:21 #kisslinux <muevoid> I like how all the commands are one letter
2020-09-15T21:06:17 #kisslinux <eris> Who was it who was making the server repository?
2020-09-15T21:06:34 #kisslinux <eris> I've started the effort of porting httpd
2020-09-15T21:06:39 #kisslinux <muevoid> I am
2020-09-15T21:07:02 #kisslinux <muevoid> I have certbot and lighttpd working
2020-09-15T21:08:24 #kisslinux <eris> I need to get my hands on some tmux code
2020-09-15T21:08:38 #kisslinux <eris> As httpd uses an OpenBSD exclusive IPC
2020-09-15T21:10:52 #kisslinux <muevoid> https://github.com/muevoid/kiss-server
2020-09-15T21:11:02 #kisslinux <muevoid> There is a very early version I have to fix depends and such
2020-09-15T21:11:06 #kisslinux <muevoid> And do documentation etc
2020-09-15T21:12:37 #kisslinux <muevoid> I also need to package some other thins I will personally be using
2020-09-15T21:14:02 #kisslinux <merakor> muevoid: I had served carbslinux.org on a carbs server previously
2020-09-15T21:14:17 #kisslinux <muevoid> Ooo nice
2020-09-15T21:14:27 #kisslinux <muevoid> Any other things you think I should package?
2020-09-15T21:14:42 #kisslinux <eris> merakor, I'm cruous
2020-09-15T21:14:45 #kisslinux <eris> *curious
2020-09-15T21:14:54 #kisslinux <admicos> muevoid: something like fail2ban and/or ufw might be nice
2020-09-15T21:14:55 #kisslinux <eris> What was your motivation behind Carbs?
2020-09-15T21:15:07 #kisslinux <muevoid> It's on his wiki I believe
2020-09-15T21:15:08 #kisslinux <eris> It's one of two derivatives that's survived
2020-09-15T21:15:42 #kisslinux <muevoid> Or at least I thought it was
2020-09-15T21:16:00 #kisslinux <muevoid> I believe iirc something about wanting to maintain most of his packages anyways andifferences in package manager
2020-09-15T21:16:32 #kisslinux <merakor> Mine didn't have much, certbot, quark, and a reverse tls that was a pain in the ass to configure properly
2020-09-15T21:16:41 #kisslinux <muevoid> also I am going to package postfix at somepoint
2020-09-15T21:17:54 #kisslinux <eris> Can't find the wiki :<
2020-09-15T21:17:56 #kisslinux <merakor> My intention was to extend it as I wanted fit personally. I have forked the package manager as well.
2020-09-15T21:18:02 #kisslinux <muevoid_> cpt is cool
2020-09-15T21:18:05 #kisslinux <eris> Ah, nice
2020-09-15T21:18:12 #kisslinux <eris> That's my motivation too
2020-09-15T21:18:18 #kisslinux <eris> How've you kept it going for so long?
2020-09-15T21:18:31 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I'm going to probably make my own "fork" at some point as well.
2020-09-15T21:18:49 #kisslinux <eris> There's been a large amount of KISS derivatives which have died
2020-09-15T21:19:08 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I'm pretty confident mine won't
2020-09-15T21:19:13 #kisslinux <eris> GKISS, GNU KISS, kissD, Quinn off the top of my head
2020-09-15T21:19:16 #kisslinux <merakor> I was running my LFS previously so it is not much of a hassle
2020-09-15T21:19:18 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I maintain a lot of packages myself rn anyways.
2020-09-15T21:19:47 #kisslinux <muevoid_> and without any xorg deps I think I finally am going to. Since I have wanted to for a while with my own ideals.
2020-09-15T21:19:52 #kisslinux <muevoid_> As i have very strong ideals :P
2020-09-15T21:19:58 #kisslinux <eris> That's good
2020-09-15T21:20:03 #kisslinux <eris> I'm interested
2020-09-15T21:20:09 #kisslinux <merakor> I am maintaining 278 packages according to repology :D
2020-09-15T21:20:13 #kisslinux <eris> *interested
2020-09-15T21:20:18 #kisslinux <eris> Christ that's a lot
2020-09-15T21:20:41 #kisslinux <merakor> 293 when combined with kiss community
2020-09-15T21:20:41 #kisslinux <muevoid_> If I do decide to make my own I will be maintaing at least 190 plus kiss-server
2020-09-15T21:20:53 #kisslinux <muevoid_> dang merakor
2020-09-15T21:21:15 #kisslinux <eris> So, a fully wayland distribution?
2020-09-15T21:21:16 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Hey illiliti how are you?
2020-09-15T21:21:18 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Yes
2020-09-15T21:21:21 #kisslinux <admicos> luajit be like: WARNING: Compiling the amalgamation needs a lot of virtual memory (around 300 MB with GCC 4.x)
2020-09-15T21:21:36 #kisslinux <eris> How will you deal with browsers?
2020-09-15T21:21:46 #kisslinux <muevoid_> webkit2gtk and qt both work
2020-09-15T21:21:51 #kisslinux <merakor> Carbs is the first KISS fork :)
2020-09-15T21:21:53 #kisslinux <eris> Oh, nice
2020-09-15T21:21:54 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I will only have webki2gtk in main repo though
2020-09-15T21:22:02 #kisslinux <muevoid_> As it's my personal favorite
2020-09-15T21:22:05 #kisslinux <eris> Can you use plain wk2g?
2020-09-15T21:22:25 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I mean someone could use the minibrowser that is included but my personal favorites are badwolf and wyeb
2020-09-15T21:22:41 #kisslinux <illiliti> muevoid_: fine
2020-09-15T21:22:41 #kisslinux <muevoid_> But technically no you can't use plain wk2g
2020-09-15T21:22:47 #kisslinux <eris> Oh, there's a mini browser?
2020-09-15T21:22:53 #kisslinux <eris> Got any screenshots?
2020-09-15T21:22:56 #kisslinux <muevoid_> yeah you can enable it at compile time if youd wish
2020-09-15T21:23:10 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I don't have it compiled rn :< i can try to find one
2020-09-15T21:23:24 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I had it disabled during my last build
2020-09-15T21:24:54 #kisslinux <muevoid_> https://blogs.igalia.com/alex/files/2011/04/webkit2minibrowser.png you can see an old picture of it there. iirc doesn't look too much differnet. But i have not tryed it in a while
2020-09-15T21:25:07 #kisslinux <merakor> I was already trying to roll my own distro, but I couldn't write a good package manager myself. I saw the reddit post of Dylan on r/unixporn and decided to take a look at the package manager. I really liked it and decided to fork the main repository as a starting point. That was December 2019.
2020-09-15T21:25:36 #kisslinux <eris> Ah, nice!
2020-09-15T21:26:12 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Before kiss I was running gentoo with musl and libressl but then got upset when I couldn't get rid of dbus easily. Then I found kiss and it was like basically everything I wanted except wayland.
2020-09-15T21:26:17 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Which now it has that too :)
2020-09-15T21:26:46 #kisslinux <admicos> oh hey i was running gentoo w/ libressl and a package broke because libressl so i switched to kiss on my main machine a couple days ago
2020-09-15T21:27:07 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I don't remember when I switched to k1ss it was at least a few months ago now.
2020-09-15T21:27:21 #kisslinux <eris> I'm curious about libressl vs bearssl
2020-09-15T21:27:27 #kisslinux <muevoid_> At first I was really against the new website.
2020-09-15T21:27:33 #kisslinux <eris> The only distribution I know that uses the latter is Oasis
2020-09-15T21:27:40 #kisslinux <admicos> eris: libressl is openssl but maintained by the openbsd folks (iirc)
2020-09-15T21:27:51 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> hi illiliti, thanks for your libudev replacement
2020-09-15T21:27:52 #kisslinux <admicos> bearssl is something entirely new and is designed (?) to be lighter
2020-09-15T21:27:59 #kisslinux <eris> Yea, I recall that
2020-09-15T21:28:03 #kisslinux <eris> I think it was in 2013?
2020-09-15T21:28:09 #kisslinux <muevoid_> libudev-zero is amazing
2020-09-15T21:28:13 #kisslinux <eris> that it was forked
2020-09-15T21:28:16 #kisslinux <muevoid_> also tinyramfs
2020-09-15T21:28:20 #kisslinux <admicos> eris: after heartbleed iirc
2020-09-15T21:28:25 #kisslinux <eris> Ah
2020-09-15T21:28:28 #kisslinux <eris> That fiasco
2020-09-15T21:28:51 #kisslinux <illiliti> sh4rm4^bnc: muevoid_: thanks!
2020-09-15T21:28:57 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I wonder if something similar can be done for dbus as was done with libudev-zero
2020-09-15T21:29:04 #kisslinux <eris> I find it funny that OpenBSD's SSL is the only one of their pieces of software that doesn't have `open` prefixed
2020-09-15T21:29:08 #kisslinux <admicos> does libudev-zero support automatic module loading like eudev with kmod?
2020-09-15T21:29:17 #kisslinux <admicos> if so i might switch
2020-09-15T21:29:27 #kisslinux <eris> I don't think it does
2020-09-15T21:29:34 #kisslinux <illiliti> libudev-zero is not device manager
2020-09-15T21:29:53 #kisslinux <muevoid_> it depends on what device manager you use
2020-09-15T21:29:55 #kisslinux <muevoid_> mdev, vdev
2020-09-15T21:29:56 #kisslinux <muevoid_> etc
2020-09-15T21:30:09 #kisslinux <admicos> ah, gotcha
2020-09-15T21:30:21 #kisslinux <admicos> i'll look up if any of them support it
2020-09-15T21:30:46 #kisslinux <illiliti> i personally use mdev with module loading
2020-09-15T21:31:34 #kisslinux <merakor2> bearssl is promising but not stable yet
2020-09-15T21:31:55 #kisslinux <illiliti> https://i.imgur.com/wFxNgBA.jpg
2020-09-15T21:31:58 #kisslinux <merakor2> I had been using it as the default tls library on Carbs for a while
2020-09-15T21:31:59 #kisslinux <illiliti> soon :)
2020-09-15T21:32:05 #kisslinux <merakor2> but switched back to libressl
2020-09-15T21:32:07 #kisslinux <admicos> i ran yes2modconfig on my kernel config a while ago, i like my kernel to be small until it knows it needs something
2020-09-15T21:32:07 #kisslinux <muevoid_> That's what i had thought merakor2
2020-09-15T21:32:40 #kisslinux <mcf> merakor2: what's unstable about it? the api hasn't changed in quite a while
2020-09-15T21:34:07 #kisslinux <merakor2> Especially when I linked curl with bearssl, I couldn't reach some websites.
2020-09-15T21:34:12 #kisslinux <muevoid_> illiliti how did you go about writing libudev-zero do you have experience from the past?
2020-09-15T21:34:59 #kisslinux <merakor2> That might also be certificate issues with the target server, but I didn't have those issues with libressl
2020-09-15T21:35:17 #kisslinux <mcf> merakor2: that's because some websites don't follow the TLS spec. they send certificate chains that are out-of-order, missing some intermediate certificate, or have duplicate certificates
2020-09-15T21:35:44 #kisslinux <mcf> i've had pretty good luck contacting the website administrators to fix their server config
2020-09-15T21:36:05 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh, I see.
2020-09-15T21:36:46 #kisslinux <merakor2> I personally really liked bearssl and your libtls implementation, but I thought that was related to bearssl.
2020-09-15T21:37:08 #kisslinux <illiliti> muevoid_: libudev-zero is my first project in C
2020-09-15T21:37:13 #kisslinux <illiliti> i learned all stuff on the fly
2020-09-15T21:37:19 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Dang
2020-09-15T21:37:21 #kisslinux <muevoid_> lol
2020-09-15T21:37:24 #kisslinux <admicos> ^
2020-09-15T21:37:48 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I have written a decent amount of c and don't think I could do that xD
2020-09-15T21:38:52 #kisslinux <mcf> merakor2: it's the type of problem like glibc-isms in project source code. nobody notices if everyone uses glibc. the only way to make progress is to use the better (imo) technology and fix problems when they arise
2020-09-15T21:38:59 #kisslinux <admicos> my only real experience with C is copying patches over from someone else, mashing them up, and hoping it compiles
2020-09-15T21:39:21 #kisslinux <merakor2> mcf: That's so true
2020-09-15T21:40:48 #kisslinux <mcf> 8 years ago, a very large amount of software didn't even build with musl. it's so much better today because people used it, found issues, and opened bugs/sent patches
2020-09-15T21:49:52 #kisslinux <illiliti> > https://i.imgur.com/wFxNgBA.jpg Nobody noticed ? i'm waiting for question: why Go ?? :)
2020-09-15T21:50:40 #kisslinux <merakor2> Why Go?
2020-09-15T21:52:04 #kisslinux <illiliti> well, i really wish i could write kiss in C, but due to lacking major "bloatless" libraries like git i decided to use Go
2020-09-15T21:52:37 #kisslinux <mcf> illiliti: a couple comments on the libudev-zero readme: my libinput branch *does* support device detection and hotplug. the problem is that Xorg does not use those features from libinput and instead relies on libudev
2020-09-15T21:52:38 #kisslinux <illiliti> https://github.com/go-git/go-git << this is very helpful
2020-09-15T21:53:14 #kisslinux <mcf> also, i've been maintaining it for over 3 years now. keeping up with upstream changes has yet to become a nightmare :)
2020-09-15T21:55:06 #kisslinux <merakor2> libtls?
2020-09-15T21:55:17 #kisslinux <mcf> libinput -udev
2020-09-15T21:55:26 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh
2020-09-15T21:56:45 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: i'm not arguing that your libinput doesn't support hotplugging. BUT it's useless because your libinput fork can't be used with device manager due to race conditions
2020-09-15T21:57:54 #kisslinux <illiliti> i.e libinput handled uevent faster then device manager which lead to permissions errors
2020-09-15T21:59:26 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah, that's fair. currently i run with a setuid launcher for my compositor (since until recently, you needed root anyway to drop drm master), so there is no race issue
2020-09-15T22:01:23 #kisslinux <mcf> but it is a bit misleading to say that it requires static device configuration. even if you disregard hotplugging, the sysfs scanning will automatically detect current devices
2020-09-15T22:04:51 #kisslinux <illiliti> sysfs scanning ?
2020-09-15T22:04:56 #kisslinux <illiliti> in Xorg ?
2020-09-15T22:05:07 #kisslinux <mcf> in libinput
2020-09-15T22:06:19 #kisslinux <illiliti> but libinput can detect only input devices, right ? you still need to use static configuration for drm devices
2020-09-15T22:06:29 #kisslinux <mcf> err, i guess just /dev/input scanning
2020-09-15T22:07:35 #kisslinux <mcf> probably for Xorg. i believe most wayland compositors detect the drm device themselves
2020-09-15T22:08:43 #kisslinux <illiliti> nope, wlroots rely on udev for that
2020-09-15T22:10:43 #kisslinux <muevoid_> how do you feel about go illiliti? It is probably my second or third fav language after c
2020-09-15T22:11:19 #kisslinux <muevoid_> yeah wlroots has a hard depend on libinput and udev
2020-09-15T22:11:33 #kisslinux <mcf> ah, i guess just mine then
2020-09-15T22:11:57 #kisslinux <muevoid_> mcf are you running wayland?
2020-09-15T22:12:09 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah
2020-09-15T22:12:25 #kisslinux <muevoid_> if you are using a wlroots based one you can use master and build with seatd support
2020-09-15T22:12:33 #kisslinux <muevoid_> So you don't have to suid
2020-09-15T22:14:48 #kisslinux <muevoid_> or you can do what we do with xorg
2020-09-15T22:14:52 #kisslinux <mcf> i'm using the one i wrote (swc/velox). but yeah, i tested with setgid input and everything works fine on 5.8. but there is the problem that ililliti mentioned with the permissions race
2020-09-15T22:14:55 #kisslinux <muevoid_> and set gid for video and input
2020-09-15T22:14:56 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Ah
2020-09-15T22:15:05 #kisslinux <illiliti> muevoid_: can't say anything about go rn. still learning stuff...
2020-09-15T22:15:10 #kisslinux <muevoid_> You wrote velox?
2020-09-15T22:15:12 #kisslinux <muevoid_> It seems nice
2020-09-15T22:15:17 #kisslinux <muevoid_> and fair enough illiliti
2020-09-15T22:16:01 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I like the build times on go compared to other modern languages.
2020-09-15T22:16:14 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> illiliti: you want to try this ipv6 “force” argument, to make sure it was what you were asking for (e.g. `kirc -n <nick> -6`?  https://github.com/mcpcpc/kirc/tree/ipv6_2
2020-09-15T22:17:16 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> also, the current master branch should automatically default to IPv6.
2020-09-15T22:19:33 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> the branch doesn’t work for me tho.  i think it has to do with my host file, which i am too lazy to fix. lol.
2020-09-15T22:20:00 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: not only permissions. your libinput limited only to input devices, while libudev-zero is more general and can be used as drop-in replacement without patches
2020-09-15T22:21:27 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcpcpc[m]: will do
2020-09-15T22:23:56 #kisslinux <mcf> illiliti: of course. i think libudev-zero is great (i considered doing the same thing a while back). i'm just saying that my libinput branch does support device detection (and hotplugging, to some degree)
2020-09-15T22:29:55 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: as far as i understand you can't use automatic detection and hotplugging on Xorg without extra patching (using libinput_netlink api instead udev)
2020-09-15T22:30:46 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah, that's what i was saying. xorg doesn't use the device detection/hotplugging features of libinput. but they *are* there
2020-09-15T22:31:19 #kisslinux <mcf> i.e. it is not a deficiency of libinput, but xorg
2020-09-15T22:32:04 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I've started porting herbe to wayland
2020-09-15T22:36:11 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcpcpc[m]: looks like it works
2020-09-15T22:39:00 #kisslinux <illiliti> netstat says kirc uses ipv6 :)
2020-09-15T22:47:08 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: because Xorg doesn't(and shouldn't) know about homemade patches. libinput_netlink API is not upstreamed
2020-09-15T22:47:15 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> illiliti: woot! is that with the `-p` argument?
2020-09-15T22:47:43 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: btw do you plan to send libinput_netlink patches to upstream ?
2020-09-15T22:47:47 #kisslinux <illiliti> without
2020-09-15T22:51:04 #kisslinux <mcf> but if it did make use of udev_seat rather than doing udev itself, it would be trivial to swap it out for netlink_seat
2020-09-15T22:51:42 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> illiliti: ah. well that’s good. would you mind checking if the `-p` argument also works for you?
2020-09-15T22:52:00 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> it will also tell me if there is something wrong with my host file. lol
2020-09-15T22:52:13 #kisslinux <mcf> i might, not sure. one thing still missing is detection of some sysfs attributes so the quirks database is effectively disabled
2020-09-15T22:59:25 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcpcpc[m]: i tried -p with 6667(valid port) and everything works fine
2020-09-15T22:59:37 #kisslinux <illiliti> with invalid port it fails as expected
2020-09-15T23:00:26 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> illiliti: awesome. that’s great. thank again!
2020-09-15T23:02:43 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: what exactly missing ?
2020-09-15T23:04:47 #kisslinux <mcf> i think mainly just the "PRODUCT" udev property
2020-09-15T23:14:01 #kisslinux <illiliti> this property easy to parse from uevent file or id/* files
2020-09-15T23:14:42 #kisslinux <illiliti> maybe there is also exist ioctl call for that
2020-09-15T23:16:42 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah, i don't think it should be too hard, i just didn't do it :P (my devices aren't quirky enough, i guess)
2020-09-15T23:18:15 #kisslinux <illiliti> fair