2020-12-02T00:00:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> just make sure you document the required steps xD
2020-12-02T00:12:53 #kisslinux <renami> Of course. I've made a GitHub issue on tinyramfs because I'm struggling to get my head around it, so hopefully that helps!
2020-12-02T00:13:17 #kisslinux <renami> Anyway, it is past midnight for me now, so I'm going to head out. Thank you for your help again!
2020-12-02T00:14:28 #kisslinux <qartis> just noticed that /etc/mime.types is huge, does it make sense to reduce the list that ships with the baselayout package?
2020-12-02T00:14:34 #kisslinux <qartis> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/blob/master/core/baselayout/files/mime.types
2020-12-02T00:15:45 #kisslinux <qartis> almost 2000 lines, most of them are pretty rarely used
2020-12-02T00:16:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> if dylan were properly motivated he might find time to trim it
2020-12-02T00:16:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> afaik it's auto-generated
2020-12-02T00:55:27 #kisslinux <dorion> hey dilyn, I know I'm new here, but... what would proper motivation look like to you ?
2020-12-02T01:00:56 #kisslinux <dorion> hello all, my name is Robinson Dorion. I've just heard about Kiss Linux yesterday when it was [http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Nov-2020/#925][mentioned in #jwrd] by someone who maintains some packages. since then, I've read a good chuck of https://k1ss.org/ and liked a lot of what I see.
2020-12-02T01:02:17 #kisslinux <dorion> afaik, Kiss is the only linux distro apart from [http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/gales-linux-initial-release/][Gales Linux] that leverages the combination of busybox + musl + shell based package manager.
2020-12-02T01:02:42 #kisslinux <dorion> With that being said, something I've not been able to wrap my head around is, how does one reach the decision that while [https://archive.is/Y4l7R#selection-89.2841-89.2964][unicode], [https://archive.is/Y4l7R#selection-89.5405-89.5533][systemd, dbus and the rest of the rathead spittoon] are clearly poisonous...
2020-12-02T01:03:05 #kisslinux <dorion> ...[https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/blob/master/core/gcc/version][gcc 10] and [https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/blob/master/core/linux-headers/version][linux 5.X] are accepted as the defaults ?
2020-12-02T01:04:37 #kisslinux <dorion> Here's some relevant background reading I've done: [http://trilema.com/2020/forum-logs-for-02-jun-2017/#2290371][> gcc4.X thread] , linux threads [http://trinque.org/2019/12/28/a-republican-os-part-1/#comment-136][here] and [http://trilema.com/2020/forum-logs-for-12-jan-2020/#2574877][here] and [http://trilema.com/2016/unicode-is-fucking-stupid-the-definitive-article/][the definitive unicode
2020-12-02T01:04:37 #kisslinux <dorion> article].
2020-12-02T01:05:01 #kisslinux <dorion> Sorry is advance for linking the archive.is javascript select, it doesn't seem that k1ss.org has [http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/][server side selecting]. I tried : https://k1ss.org/guidestones/?b=Only%20target%20English&e=#select and https://k1ss.org/guidestones/?b=dbus,%20systemd&e=#select, but they both 404'd.
2020-12-02T01:09:28 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> there is no linux kernel default with KISS
2020-12-02T01:09:34 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> you have to choose one and build it yourself
2020-12-02T01:14:45 #kisslinux <dorion> ominous_anonymou, thanks. I know I can always build a kernel from upstream or the various ones I have lying around for various boxes in use. but, what does that version number in the repo mean ?
2020-12-02T01:15:02 #kisslinux <dorion> https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20201201#c6025150 -- currency is the most sellable/marketable good, it's like... the one thing that won't get ab
2020-12-02T01:15:06 #kisslinux <dorion> olished if there are to be humans walking earth. At minimum, it's telling you... information. Why'd you wanna censor that ?
2020-12-02T01:16:01 #kisslinux <dorion> hmm, does this chan have a bot to quote links from the www logger ?
2020-12-02T01:16:20 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://k1ss.org/faq#7.5
2020-12-02T01:17:19 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> not that i know of, but linking like you did is fine
2020-12-02T01:17:47 #kisslinux <dorion> why ty, ominous_anonymou.
2020-12-02T01:33:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> dorion: i'm not sure if you're initial question was meant for me or dylanaraps: the mind KISS
2020-12-02T01:34:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> as far as header versions go, there's technically no blocker to pegging yourself to at least whatever earliest version musl supports afaik
2020-12-02T01:35:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> as for opposition to gcc, one could probably always get away with earlier versions - I don't think there's a strong technical reason one couldn't use earlier versions of gcc (without some work) - nobody's tried with ICC, but wyvertux exists as an alternative rootfs and system
2020-12-02T02:03:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> also there is tcc or w/e that suckless c compiler is; don't think anybody's tried that one?
2020-12-02T02:05:17 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> re: tcc i want to say someone used it, there's mention here: https://k1ss.org/blog/20200309a
2020-12-02T02:06:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah I vaguely remember that mention, but I don't think anyone ever announced anything beyond that instance
2020-12-02T02:09:54 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> looks like that was the last update in community too: https://github.com/kisslinux/community/tree/master/community/tcc
2020-12-02T02:14:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> I tried TCC actually
2020-12-02T02:14:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> it doesn't work for an overwhelming majority of programs, even most terminal-based stuff
2020-12-02T02:14:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> as cool as it is it's not practical, and it's also not an optimizing compiler either, fwiw
2020-12-02T02:17:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah afaik it's very... basic
2020-12-02T02:20:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> Mmh.
2020-12-02T02:20:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> Now, mind you, it's ridiculously fast
2020-12-02T02:21:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> but the whole "not working" thing is...
2020-12-02T02:21:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, kind of a deal breaker
2020-12-02T02:25:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> kind of defeats the purpose huh
2020-12-02T02:27:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah
2020-12-02T02:27:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> the whole "being functional" thing is kind of a killer feature
2020-12-02T02:41:35 #kisslinux <dorion> https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20201202#c6029018 -- I asked you about proper motivation because you said it a couple lines prior.
2020-12-02T02:41:49 #kisslinux <dorion> dilyn, thanks for the answers about kernel and compiler.
2020-12-02T02:42:01 #kisslinux <dorion> https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20201202#c6029317 -- cool, thanks for the link.
2020-12-02T02:42:59 #kisslinux <dorion> https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20201202#c6029423 -- nice. did you ever try building anything in the gcc-4.X line with tcc ?
2020-12-02T02:46:54 #kisslinux <mcf> i've was able to build gcc 4.7 with cproc (with a few patches): https://man.sr.ht/~mcf/cproc/doc/software.md#gcc-47
2020-12-02T02:47:50 #kisslinux <dorion> https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20201202#c6029579 -- depends on the requirements of the specific system in question though. e.g. a bitcoin node has different functional requirements than a desktop. In the former case, limiting complexity to the essential and thus increasing the security is its own feature, wouldn't you say ?
2020-12-02T02:49:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> ah; proper motivation in that instance would be that shaving kilobytes off of a file is worth parsing the whole file for worthwhile mimetypes to keep. I'm unconvinced that mimetypes are wholly necessary, so I wouldn't really bother either way
2020-12-02T02:49:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> proper motivation more broadly is... I think difficult to capture
2020-12-02T02:50:58 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i think their statement on "being functional" was directed more to a general "desktop" system as opposed to some specialized case
2020-12-02T02:51:36 #kisslinux <dorion> mcf, interesting. I'd not heard of cproc.
2020-12-02T02:53:24 #kisslinux <dorion> dilyn, aha.
2020-12-02T03:01:30 #kisslinux <dorion> ominous_anonymou, I don't doubt you're more familiar with their meaning. while key management is specialized, it's still key to anyone set on taking ownership of their digital identity and money.
2020-12-02T03:02:33 #kisslinux <dorion> which from my perch are of the highest leverage tools that exist.
2020-12-02T03:04:03 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> while i don't disagree, i'm not really sure what that has to do with "tcc fails at being functional for me because it is not able to compile the applications i want/need to use"
2020-12-02T03:05:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh, are we still talking about tcc?
2020-12-02T03:05:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> at the end of the day it can't even compile something like htop or sbase
2020-12-02T03:05:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> so like
2020-12-02T03:05:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> eh...
2020-12-02T03:08:27 #kisslinux <dorion> ominous_anonymou, sure, apologies if I was unclear, that's why [https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20201202#c6029631][I asked] specifically about using tcc to compile anything in the gcc-4.X line.
2020-12-02T03:09:45 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> oh ok, sorry, i missed that statement
2020-12-02T03:10:41 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> so "is tcc functional" from your perspective would be its compatibility with that gcc version line
2020-12-02T03:13:10 #kisslinux <dorion> that's one metric, anti-thompsonistic bootstrapping is valueable.
2020-12-02T03:14:35 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> what do you mean by "anti-Thompsonistic"?
2020-12-02T03:16:24 #kisslinux <mcf> ominous_anonymou: https://wiki.c2.com/?TheKenThompsonHack
2020-12-02T03:17:00 #kisslinux <dorion> https://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/hh/thompson/trust.html
2020-12-02T03:18:11 #kisslinux <mcf> dorion: have you seen bootstrappable.org? i think they use tcc in their gcc bootstrap process
2020-12-02T03:18:44 #kisslinux <dorion> mcf, I had not, thanks for the link.
2020-12-02T03:19:23 #kisslinux <mcf> "In the current bootstrap in GuixSD TinyCC builds GCC 2.95.0, which then builds GCC 4.7.4."
2020-12-02T03:19:30 #kisslinux <mcf> so i guess it's a two step thing
2020-12-02T03:21:58 #kisslinux <dorion> mcf, have you tried it ?
2020-12-02T03:22:26 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> thanks for the links, quite a read
2020-12-02T03:24:20 #kisslinux <mcf> i have not
2020-12-02T03:25:47 #kisslinux <mcf> i'm a bit biased towards cproc though, since it's my own project. i'm trying to build all oasis packages with it: https://github.com/oasislinux/oasis/issues/13
2020-12-02T03:28:16 #kisslinux <dorion> mcf, the bias makes sense, only so many hours in the day.
2020-12-02T03:30:18 #kisslinux <dorion> mcf, looks like you've built quite a bit with it already, congrats.
2020-12-02T03:30:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> how long have you been actively working on cproc, mcf?
2020-12-02T03:31:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> because oasis is something like six years old now isn't it?
2020-12-02T03:31:36 #kisslinux <dorion> mcf, [https://github.com/oasislinux/oasis/issues/13#issuecomment-637067272]["However, if you are asking why I'd want to be able to build the oasis userspace with a compiler written in 7000 lines of C as opposed to one written in 5 million lines of C++, then I don't really know how to answer."] -- lolz!
2020-12-02T03:33:41 #kisslinux <nerditup> mcf: Oasis is your project?
2020-12-02T03:34:19 #kisslinux <mcf> dilyn: oasis is ~4 years old, and cproc is a bit under 2 years old
2020-12-02T03:34:32 #kisslinux <mcf> nerditup: yep
2020-12-02T03:36:01 #kisslinux <nerditup> Cool, it was linked on lobste.rs today and read through your README. Great stuff, I liked the concept of no package manager or using something like nix
2020-12-02T03:37:53 #kisslinux <mcf> thanks
2020-12-02T03:39:42 #kisslinux <nerditup> Hopefully you didn't get too annoyed with the comments on HN :)
2020-12-02T03:42:54 #kisslinux <dorion> s/hacker news/heckler noose/
2020-12-02T03:43:54 #kisslinux <nerditup> I have a hard time explaining to some of my more technical friends why I choose to roll a distro like KISS, or why I would enjoy using Oasis.
2020-12-02T03:44:38 #kisslinux <nerditup> The comments on HN reminded me of that experience
2020-12-02T03:44:57 #kisslinux <dorion> nerditup, did you write about it ? or how did you try to explain ?
2020-12-02T03:51:28 #kisslinux <Rio6> what's on hacker newa
2020-12-02T03:51:34 #kisslinux <Rio6> news
2020-12-02T03:56:09 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25265761
2020-12-02T03:56:55 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://lobste.rs/s/n6ehna/oasis_small_statically_linked_linux
2020-12-02T04:42:50 #kisslinux <Rio6> new firefox version seems to have higher cpu usage than before
2020-12-02T04:46:14 #kisslinux <Rio6> why is it using 100% cpu :( Do I blame ff or do I blame the website
2020-12-02T04:48:32 #kisslinux <Rio6> "blocked by env: Acceleration blocked by platform" maybe that's why
2020-12-02T04:49:06 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> Try turning on webrender in about:config
2020-12-02T04:50:00 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> `gfx.webrender.all` = True
2020-12-02T04:54:32 #kisslinux <Rio6> still uses 100%. But looks like it's only one some websites
2020-12-02T04:54:47 #kisslinux <Rio6> I'm blaming the websites for now
2020-12-02T04:59:19 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> Can you give an example of a site that gives you 100% usage?
2020-12-02T05:00:53 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> Long shot but maybe try a new firefox profile aswell and `layers.acceleration.force-enabled` in about:config
2020-12-02T05:03:05 #kisslinux <Rio6> rn get.tech is giving me high cpu
2020-12-02T09:57:50 #kisslinux <Nice> I dont use irc, can i get discord link
2020-12-02T09:59:20 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> I think the discord server was abandoned
2020-12-02T09:59:30 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> Nice
2020-12-02T12:11:26 #kisslinux <varbhat> hello
2020-12-02T12:11:36 #kisslinux <varbhat> i am trying kisslinux in chroot
2020-12-02T12:11:44 #kisslinux <varbhat> i am very much impressed by it
2020-12-02T12:12:08 #kisslinux <varbhat> thanks to everyone contributing to this project
2020-12-02T12:13:00 #kisslinux <varbhat> one question though. how much time does it take to build gcc,llvm,mesa
2020-12-02T12:13:11 #kisslinux <varbhat> i have to build these packages.
2020-12-02T12:20:49 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> GCC and LLVM can take quite some time depending on your setup
2020-12-02T12:21:00 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> Why do you want to rebuild gcc though?
2020-12-02T12:24:12 #kisslinux <varbhat> not now but maybe in future when gcc gets updated
2020-12-02T12:24:27 #kisslinux <varbhat> what to do then? don't i need to rebuild gcc too?
2020-12-02T12:25:04 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> Yeah you'll need to rebuild gcc for an update
2020-12-02T12:25:11 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> I thought you wanted to rebuilt it right now
2020-12-02T12:26:51 #kisslinux <varbhat> how long it can take though?
2020-12-02T12:31:35 #kisslinux <varbhat> also,why mpv is depending on llvm ?
2020-12-02T12:39:14 #kisslinux <nerditup> dorion: this has been in person, you're right though -- I should write about it
2020-12-02T12:41:50 #kisslinux <dorion> nerditup, do you keep a blog /
2020-12-02T12:42:58 #kisslinux <nerditup> Not at the moment, been thinking about starting one recently. This could be a good first topic: why I care about X
2020-12-02T12:46:19 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> varbhat It depends on your setup, i think GCC takes like 15-20min on my ryzen 5 3600 and llvm a bit longer
2020-12-02T13:28:04 #kisslinux <dorion> nerditup, I [http://dorion-mode.com][use] and recommend Mircea Popescu's WordPress (MP-WP) (http://trilema.com). It was [http://thewhet.net/2018/06/mp-wp-genesis-regrind/][v-genesis'd by hanbot]. Her article has several pingbacks to set up reports and [http://billymg.com/category/mp-wp/][billymg has made several useful vpatches].
2020-12-02T13:29:17 #kisslinux <dorion> for those who don't know what V is, here's the best entry point: http://ossasepia.com/2019/12/13/a-walk-among-the-trees-of-v/
2020-12-02T18:10:38 #kisslinux <varbhat> hello
2020-12-02T18:10:46 #kisslinux <varbhat> i am getting error on kernel build
2020-12-02T18:11:04 #kisslinux <varbhat> i think make of kernel expects gnu coreutils
2020-12-02T18:11:14 #kisslinux <micr0> varbhat do you have perl installed?
2020-12-02T18:11:19 #kisslinux <varbhat> yes
2020-12-02T18:11:23 #kisslinux <micr0> hmm
2020-12-02T18:11:30 #kisslinux <varbhat> i do have perl installed
2020-12-02T18:11:39 #kisslinux <micr0> how are you building the kernel? have you looked at anyone elses build scripts for their kernel?
2020-12-02T18:12:00 #kisslinux <varbhat> find: unrecognised -printf
2020-12-02T18:12:04 #kisslinux <varbhat> what to do?
2020-12-02T18:14:26 #kisslinux <varbhat> i think i had enabled "enable kernel headers through /sys/*'
2020-12-02T18:14:33 #kisslinux <varbhat> that might be reason
2020-12-02T18:19:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> Hey, heirloom-base used to be in community, right?
2020-12-02T18:19:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> or am I crazy?
2020-12-02T18:36:13 #kisslinux <varbhat> Dylan , why did you ditch https://k1ss.org/blog/20191117a version of the site ?
2020-12-02T18:36:30 #kisslinux <varbhat> it was responsive even on mobile. was well designed
2020-12-02T18:39:06 #kisslinux <varbhat> ok,guys, have built the kernel. let's see how it goes
2020-12-02T18:47:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki/Software_minimalism
2020-12-02T18:47:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> we've made it, fellas. we're listed on the /g/ wiki
2020-12-02T18:49:28 #kisslinux <micr0> oh no :(
2020-12-02T18:50:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> there's no escaping from their autism now
2020-12-02T18:50:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> they could be any one of us
2020-12-02T18:53:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> as an aside, is there a way to change the location of KISS' cache?
2020-12-02T18:56:08 #kisslinux <micr0> midfavila XDG_CACHE_HOME I think
2020-12-02T18:56:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> will give it a shot
2020-12-02T18:56:45 #kisslinux <micr0> I just 'grep '.cache' `which kiss`' and looked at the results
2020-12-02T18:57:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> Fair. I should have thought of that myself
2020-12-02T18:57:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay, yeah, you're right
2020-12-02T18:57:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> based
2020-12-02T18:57:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> thanks a ton
2020-12-02T18:58:17 #kisslinux <micr0> Also 'rg -i cache /usr/share/doc/kiss'
2020-12-02T18:58:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> "rg"?
2020-12-02T18:58:28 #kisslinux <micr0> yeah, its one of the reasons im not really excited for `k`
2020-12-02T18:58:44 #kisslinux <micr0> will be harder to understand how the package manager works
2020-12-02T18:58:54 #kisslinux <micr0> midfavila rg=>ripgrep, just another kinda grep
2020-12-02T18:58:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> True, but it's supposed to be backwards-compatible, right?
2020-12-02T18:58:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> Aaah
2020-12-02T18:59:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> Normally I use gnugrep
2020-12-02T18:59:22 #kisslinux <micr0> midfavila oh it will work fine, but it will be harder for me to find answers to questions
2020-12-02T18:59:32 #kisslinux <micr0> on how it works
2020-12-02T18:59:35 #kisslinux * midfavila nods
2020-12-02T19:00:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> Time to take the Ubuntu approach and start layering frontends on top of it
2020-12-02T19:00:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> :p
2020-12-02T19:01:17 #kisslinux <micr0> I expect `k` to be faster, more portable, and eventually (though not initially) more correct than `kiss`. I also expect it to be much harder to understand and hack on.
2020-12-02T19:01:41 #kisslinux <micr0> that said, I *might* see if porting to zig or zz would be a nice middle ground
2020-12-02T19:02:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> Well, yeah. C is a lot denser than shellcode... but I think it'll be interesting either way. At the very least it'll give me a reason to stare at C more often
2020-12-02T19:03:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> Zig, huh... never heard of it before, but it looks interesting
2020-12-02T19:04:35 #kisslinux <varbhat> do you use wpa_supplicant or eiwd ?
2020-12-02T19:04:36 #kisslinux <micr0> midfavila not sure about more dense. shell was made for string processing, and there is so much pomp and circumstance in C to do string processing.
2020-12-02T19:04:43 #kisslinux <micr0> varbhat eiwd
2020-12-02T19:05:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> I don't use either at the moment, mostly because my home network is all wired... should probably look into eiwd for when my new laptop arrives
2020-12-02T19:05:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I suppose you're right, micr0
2020-12-02T19:05:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm probably just not used to parsing C since I don't read it very much
2020-12-02T19:07:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> Do you think zig cc could replace gcc on a regular system, micr0?
2020-12-02T19:07:31 #kisslinux <varbhat> but mainstream ibus supports ugly dbus
2020-12-02T19:07:36 #kisslinux <varbhat> *iwd
2020-12-02T19:08:10 #kisslinux <varbhat> actually,there must be some non-dbus client to communicate with iwd
2020-12-02T19:08:19 #kisslinux <micr0> midfavila totally uneducated guess would be: zig cc has a better chance than tcc, but not by much
2020-12-02T19:10:01 #kisslinux <micr0> I am also unsure if zig's string handling is any easier to understand, as it is explicit in manual allocations
2020-12-02T19:12:12 #kisslinux <micr0> building zig from source requires llvm to be built with all architectures enabled, interesting
2020-12-02T19:12:33 #kisslinux <mcf> isn't zig cc just clang under the hood?
2020-12-02T19:12:46 #kisslinux <varbhat> how do i set dvorak keylayout in kiss ?
2020-12-02T19:12:59 #kisslinux <varbhat> loadkmap requires layout file
2020-12-02T19:13:02 #kisslinux <varbhat> where it is?
2020-12-02T19:14:06 #kisslinux <micr0> not sure, check the wiki though maybe
2020-12-02T19:21:21 #kisslinux <micr0> testing a default build of llvm instead of our very limited targets
2020-12-02T19:27:20 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> does loadkeys exist?
2020-12-02T19:35:09 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> varbhat https://k1ss.org/wiki/xorg/keyboard-layout is there anything under /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ ?
2020-12-02T19:41:23 #kisslinux <micr0> not a huge fan of github, but the cli is really nice for not needing to go to the website to submit prs
2020-12-02T19:41:39 #kisslinux <micr0> it even pulls in the relevant template file and opens your editor with it
2020-12-02T19:53:54 #kisslinux * dorion recognizes [http://ossasepia.com/2019/12/13/a-walk-among-the-trees-of-v/][V] as the correct source distribution and control tool.
2020-12-02T19:57:52 #kisslinux <varbhat> ominous_anonymou : i did it before. it was my fault for not seeing wiki. thank you though
2020-12-02T19:58:10 #kisslinux <varbhat> i installed mesa and with that came libllvm.so
2020-12-02T19:58:32 #kisslinux <varbhat> so, my /usr/lib is 1.1 GB lol
2020-12-02T19:58:41 #kisslinux <varbhat> how can i reduce it? any suggestions?
2020-12-02T20:14:18 #kisslinux <micr0> dorion yeah i read that last night. still doesn't get me any closer to understanding. even the link that supposedly is the canonical introduction to v 404s
2020-12-02T20:15:13 #kisslinux <micr0> though the full url of that 404'ing link is enough to turn me off from the entire project, best of luck to those who found it do something they want/need
2020-12-02T20:15:42 #kisslinux <micr0> also dorion your linking style confuses logbot :(
2020-12-02T20:16:25 #kisslinux <micr0> example https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20201202#c6037785
2020-12-02T20:17:57 #kisslinux <dorion> micr0, I'm used to loggers that do recognize it, sorry. also used to logbots that quote the lines from their logs that are being linked in chan.
2020-12-02T20:18:53 #kisslinux <dorion> micr0, the canonical article mentioned is available here: https://archive.is/loqGu
2020-12-02T20:19:43 #kisslinux <dorion> essentially, V allows the operators to install signed patches from his WoT only.
2020-12-02T20:20:05 #kisslinux <micr0> yeah not admonishing, just letting you know your reach might not be as far as you'd like for those who mostly read the logs
2020-12-02T20:20:19 #kisslinux <micr0> and i wouldnt be surprised if they accepted a PR to fix it xD
2020-12-02T20:20:20 #kisslinux <dorion> it was first developed for the Bitcoin client.
2020-12-02T20:20:30 #kisslinux <micr0> oh man you would hate git-ssb xD
2020-12-02T20:20:40 #kisslinux <micr0> literally permissionless git repos on scuttlebutt
2020-12-02T20:22:52 #kisslinux <micr0> ahh cool, so the high level concept is nice. though is the WoT depth configurable?
2020-12-02T20:23:09 #kisslinux <micr0> or do the tools help hold your hand for it
2020-12-02T20:23:42 #kisslinux <micr0> honestly in my experience the tooling has to know how to traverse dependencies in a sane way otherwise you just get people saying 'yes' to everything or needing to clone like 20 repos just to build something
2020-12-02T20:24:21 #kisslinux <micr0> ( see https://github.com/jedahan/kiss-repo-repos as my half-ass attempt to make it slightly easier to keep our packages distributed but accessible )
2020-12-02T20:24:55 #kisslinux <micr0> also really anything that touches the *coin/*thereum sphere i am extra cautious about
2020-12-02T20:25:46 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> I think the toposort snippets in the archive link touch on the dependency traversal a little?  at least, patch ordering wise
2020-12-02T20:25:57 #kisslinux <micr0> after having built some ethereum tooling and clients, participated in trustless environments/living situations both moderated by said networks
2020-12-02T20:26:25 #kisslinux <micr0> yeah i will admit i skimmed and am turned off by it a bit
2020-12-02T20:26:27 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> it was not clear to me after reading how any kind of external linking should be handled (or if it even needed to be)
2020-12-02T20:26:39 #kisslinux <micr0> i wonder how much overlap V vs pijul's model is
2020-12-02T20:27:04 #kisslinux <micr0> ominous_anonymou my impression was you filter based on WoT the patchsets you subscribe to
2020-12-02T20:27:30 #kisslinux <micr0> if those patchsets depend on sub-patchsets from people you have not yet trusted, there needs to be some traversal?
2020-12-02T20:27:53 #kisslinux <micr0> or every patchset contains the entirity of dependencies signed off by that person? kinda like how golang works?
2020-12-02T20:29:19 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://pijul.org/model/ this does sound similar
2020-12-02T20:29:24 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> "In Pijul, the state of a repository is exactly the (non-ordered) set of patches that were applied to it since its creation. Therefore, from a conceptual point of view, branching just means creating new patches."