2021-03-07T00:25:13 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> the main issue with "system("cp foo bar")" is that when at least one of those filenames is a variable unexpected things can happen (imagine it contains space)
2021-03-07T01:58:44 #kisslinux <travankor> speaking of shell scripts, can someone confirm this: acpid's handler.sh does not respect $PATH (is this documented somewhere?)
2021-03-07T02:14:32 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Guess I'm not the only one with C on the mind...
2021-03-07T02:14:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Gonna try fixing an ancient file manager so that it compiles on modern machines. With... zero C experience.
2021-03-07T02:15:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> . _.
2021-03-07T02:30:53 #kisslinux <kiedtl> have fun lol
2021-03-07T02:47:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah, "fun"
2021-03-07T02:47:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm gonna see if I can't pawn it off on someone else first lmao
2021-03-07T02:47:41 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah my first few hours of mucking about in C have been not too fun
2021-03-07T02:47:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't want to fight with a three and a half decade old build system
2021-03-07T02:48:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> imake won't even generate the proper makefile on my laptop
2021-03-07T02:48:03 #kisslinux <acheam> i miss my python with its gargantuan standard library
2021-03-07T02:48:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> i miss my shell script ;~;
2021-03-07T02:48:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> babby languages
2021-03-07T02:48:39 #kisslinux <acheam> i'd rather reimplement stagit in a shell script at this point honestly
2021-03-07T02:48:54 #kisslinux <acheam> it shouldn't be *that* bad
2021-03-07T02:48:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've gotten too used to working within the confines of shell
2021-03-07T02:49:01 #kisslinux <acheam> its just catting togethor some html
2021-03-07T02:49:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> so now that I'm trying to learn another language it's like
2021-03-07T02:49:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh why can't you just be more like shell script
2021-03-07T02:49:24 #kisslinux <acheam> what about for loops though
2021-03-07T02:49:28 #kisslinux <acheam> thats some good shit
2021-03-07T02:49:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> right of course
2021-03-07T02:49:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> for loops
2021-03-07T02:49:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> the main thing you learn about in CS courses
2021-03-07T02:49:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> how could I forget
2021-03-07T02:49:57 #kisslinux <acheam> imagine using a language with for loop
2021-03-07T02:50:00 #kisslinux <acheam> posix shell gang
2021-03-07T02:50:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> imagine not just using while loops for everything smh
2021-03-07T02:50:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> Cniles don't know what they're missing
2021-03-07T02:51:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> you know what's even better than loops though
2021-03-07T02:51:18 #kisslinux <acheam> imagine letting your computer just walk all over you like that
2021-03-07T02:51:29 #kisslinux <acheam> we do our for loops by hand
2021-03-07T02:51:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> loops are brainlet
2021-03-07T02:51:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> use recursion
2021-03-07T02:51:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> smh
2021-03-07T02:51:48 #kisslinux <acheam> 10 print hi
2021-03-07T02:51:50 #kisslinux <acheam> 20 goto 10
2021-03-07T02:51:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> programming master
2021-03-07T02:52:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay fr though can we unironically make BASIC great again
2021-03-07T02:53:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> gimme a BASIC prompt as my unix shell
2021-03-07T02:54:28 #kisslinux <acheam> hmmm would be interesting to write a unix shell with basic syntax
2021-03-07T02:54:39 #kisslinux <acheam> s/basic/BASIC
2021-03-07T02:54:40 #kisslinux <kissbot> <acheam> hmmm would be interesting to write a unix shell with BASIC syntax
2021-03-07T02:54:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd unironically use it
2021-03-07T02:54:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> as a daily
2021-03-07T02:54:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> bsh
2021-03-07T02:54:54 #kisslinux <acheam> and we call it: BASH
2021-03-07T02:55:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> no that's already taken
2021-03-07T02:55:10 #kisslinux <acheam> screw 'em
2021-03-07T02:55:12 #kisslinux <acheam> ours is better
2021-03-07T02:55:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> fair enough
2021-03-07T02:55:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> could totally make a simple BASIC interpreter and have it be way less than bash lmao
2021-03-07T02:55:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> (in terms of bloat)
2021-03-07T02:55:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> actually I wonder how small you could get it
2021-03-07T02:56:56 #kisslinux <acheam> depends how much /which standards of BASIC you want to support
2021-03-07T02:57:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean I'd argue a subset of dartmouth basic
2021-03-07T02:57:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> considering it's the original implementation and all
2021-03-07T02:58:05 #kisslinux <acheam> why not just make a new one while we're at it?
2021-03-07T02:58:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> feature creep
2021-03-07T02:58:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> and also that's why there's no "standard" BASIC
2021-03-07T02:58:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> because everyone was like "yeah let's make our own"
2021-03-07T02:58:24 #kisslinux <acheam> i mean, if we're doing that, we might as well just reinvent the microprocessor
2021-03-07T02:58:32 #kisslinux <acheam> KISS_64 architecture
2021-03-07T02:58:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> you joke but that's already a thing
2021-03-07T02:58:47 #kisslinux <dgre> 1 instruction
2021-03-07T02:59:07 #kisslinux <acheam> you sure we can't go lower?
2021-03-07T02:59:14 #kisslinux <dgre> no instruction
2021-03-07T02:59:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> only lambda calculus
2021-03-07T02:59:22 #kisslinux <dgre> the processor does whatever it wants
2021-03-07T02:59:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> wait no
2021-03-07T02:59:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's still two instructions
2021-03-07T02:59:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> fuck
2021-03-07T03:00:10 #kisslinux <kiedtl> One instruction: HALT
2021-03-07T03:00:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> GO_OUTSIDE
2021-03-07T03:00:36 #kisslinux <kiedtl> FUCK
2021-03-07T03:00:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> hey now that's not a very professional instruction
2021-03-07T03:00:53 #kisslinux <acheam> but then we can't come back inside :(
2021-03-07T03:01:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> go outside the outdoors
2021-03-07T03:01:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> transcend reality
2021-03-07T03:01:08 #kisslinux <kiedtl> We'll name one of the registers MOTHER, how bout that
2021-03-07T03:01:09 #kisslinux <acheam> this is a christian instruction set
2021-03-07T03:01:12 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh
2021-03-07T03:01:39 #kisslinux <acheam> ain't no swears in my christian instruction set
2021-03-07T03:01:44 #kisslinux <acheam> but there is: INQUISITE
2021-03-07T03:02:02 #kisslinux <kiedtl> MASS
2021-03-07T03:02:07 #kisslinux <acheam> and you seee, the best thing about the INQUISITE instruction is: nobody sees is coming, not even the computer
2021-03-07T03:02:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> hit me with those fresh 2006 memes
2021-03-07T03:02:44 #kisslinux <acheam> segmentation fault
2021-03-07T03:04:25 #kisslinux <acheam> honestly why bother with C though
2021-03-07T03:04:30 #kisslinux <acheam> we should just use B
2021-03-07T03:18:10 #kisslinux <travankor> C9niles btfo
2021-03-07T03:18:21 #kisslinux <travankor> s/9//
2021-03-07T03:18:23 #kisslinux <kissbot> <travankor> Cniles btfo
2021-03-07T03:18:29 #kisslinux <kiedtl> We should use Rust, that will solve all our problems
2021-03-07T03:18:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> banned
2021-03-07T03:19:26 #kisslinux <kiedtl> What about common wisp?
2021-03-07T03:19:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> common lisp is okay uwu
2021-03-07T03:19:54 #kisslinux <travankor> sbcl or bust
2021-03-07T03:20:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm considering including a statically linked chibi scheme binary with my FVWM config to allow it to do more advanced things than FvwmScript and POSIX shell can do on their own
2021-03-07T03:20:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> like generating a formatted list based on .desktop files
2021-03-07T03:21:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> because apparently if your DE/WM/GUI/whatever doesn't do that now it's "behind the times"
2021-03-07T03:21:29 #kisslinux <travankor> stumpwm basically does that
2021-03-07T03:22:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> I wish SCWM was still a thing
2021-03-07T03:23:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> basically just FVWM but with FvwmScript replaced by Guile
2021-03-07T03:23:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> having an actually useable programming language would be so much nicer when working with FVWM
2021-03-07T03:23:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> as it stands, if you want to nest if statements, you have to start a new function within the function every time you want to check another condition
2021-03-07T03:24:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> e.g func alice if foo then bar else func bob if oof then rab else func tom ...
2021-03-07T03:24:52 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila:  fvwm has its own scripting language?
2021-03-07T03:24:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-03-07T03:25:03 #kisslinux <acheam> why
2021-03-07T03:25:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's how you configure FVWM
2021-03-07T03:25:06 #kisslinux <acheam> why
2021-03-07T03:25:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> because that's just how you do it
2021-03-07T03:25:14 #kisslinux <acheam> why
2021-03-07T03:25:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> because fuck you
2021-03-07T03:25:35 #kisslinux <acheam> what string of bad design decisions lead to a window manager having its own scripting language
2021-03-07T03:25:39 #kisslinux <acheam> is it turing complete?
2021-03-07T03:25:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean
2021-03-07T03:25:46 #kisslinux <travankor> nih syndrome
2021-03-07T03:25:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> *technically*
2021-03-07T03:25:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> but like
2021-03-07T03:25:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> i wouldn't want to write anything complex in it
2021-03-07T03:26:01 #kisslinux <acheam> does it have flow control and stuff?
2021-03-07T03:26:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> you have single-nested ifs.
2021-03-07T03:26:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's it.
2021-03-07T03:26:20 #kisslinux <travankor> just use Guike desu
2021-03-07T03:26:30 #kisslinux <travankor> s/Guike/Guile/
2021-03-07T03:26:31 #kisslinux <kissbot> <travankor> just use Guile desu
2021-03-07T03:26:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> the *intent* of FvwmScript is to smooth interaction between FVWM and some other, external language
2021-03-07T03:26:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> basically, FVWM has its own internal "toolkit"
2021-03-07T03:26:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> built on top of Xt
2021-03-07T03:27:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> and FvwmScript exposes that
2021-03-07T03:27:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> so you can hack together little menus and stuff
2021-03-07T03:27:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> but all the actual logic is controlled by external programs or scripts
2021-03-07T03:27:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> think of it like HTML/CSS plus some sort of backend language like python or lua
2021-03-07T03:27:41 #kisslinux <acheam> hmmm
2021-03-07T03:27:47 #kisslinux <acheam> omg
2021-03-07T03:27:52 #kisslinux <acheam> electron window manager
2021-03-07T03:28:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> there's already an electron terminal emulator
2021-03-07T03:28:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can't beat that
2021-03-07T03:28:08 #kisslinux <acheam> yes you can
2021-03-07T03:28:11 #kisslinux <acheam> with an electron window manager
2021-03-07T03:28:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> electron-based kernel
2021-03-07T03:28:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> make it happen
2021-03-07T03:28:33 #kisslinux <travankor> no
2021-03-07T03:28:36 #kisslinux <travankor> fite me
2021-03-07T03:28:43 #kisslinux <acheam> i feel bad for the macos developers who use an electron based terminal, electron based ide, and then a chromium browser
2021-03-07T03:28:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> i have a big knife and you probably don't
2021-03-07T03:28:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> so yeah okay
2021-03-07T03:28:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> let's go
2021-03-07T03:29:22 #kisslinux * midfavila brandishes bayonet in a moderately threatening manner
2021-03-07T03:29:38 #kisslinux <acheam> hmmm https://github.com/tamkeen-tms/electron-window-manager
2021-03-07T03:29:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> aids
2021-03-07T03:29:52 #kisslinux <acheam> slightly different but a good base to build from
2021-03-07T03:31:13 #kisslinux <travankor> why tho?
2021-03-07T03:35:52 #kisslinux <travankor> https://github.com/mwitmer/guile-wm
2021-03-07T03:36:05 #kisslinux <travankor> tfw using chad-wm
2021-03-07T03:40:09 #kisslinux <acheam> imagine using the gnu programming language
2021-03-07T03:42:37 #kisslinux <acheam> can we make a gkiss++?
2021-03-07T03:42:45 #kisslinux <acheam> its kiss linux but everything is gnu
2021-03-07T03:42:54 #kisslinux <travankor> https://files.catbox.moe/81w92r.png
2021-03-07T03:44:14 #kisslinux <acheam> ew proprietary file hosting
2021-03-07T03:49:16 #kisslinux <travankor> https://0x0.st/-Pwh.png
2021-03-07T03:49:32 #kisslinux <acheam> thats the stuff
2021-03-07T03:49:48 #kisslinux <travankor> TIL that 0x0 supports images
2021-03-07T03:50:17 #kisslinux <acheam> files, urls, and text
2021-03-07T04:03:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> I want to put together a list of useful terminal utilities like 0x0.st
2021-03-07T04:03:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> i know of wttr.in
2021-03-07T04:03:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> but beyond that I'm not sure
2021-03-07T04:04:08 #kisslinux <acheam> you mean like network services with a curlable api?
2021-03-07T04:04:16 #kisslinux <acheam> s/api/interface/
2021-03-07T04:04:18 #kisslinux <kissbot> <acheam> you mean like network services with a curlable interface?
2021-03-07T04:04:23 #kisslinux <midfavila>  Yeah.
2021-03-07T04:04:45 #kisslinux <acheam> https://armaanb.net/ip
2021-03-07T04:05:03 #kisslinux <acheam> but theres tons of those
2021-03-07T04:09:56 #kisslinux <acheam> https://sr.ht/~armaan/awesome-curl/
2021-03-07T04:58:27 #kisslinux <acheam> crap
2021-03-07T04:58:30 #kisslinux <acheam> this exists already
2021-03-07T04:58:32 #kisslinux <acheam> https://github.com/chubin/awesome-console-services
2021-03-07T04:58:43 #kisslinux <acheam> and ofc its by the wttr.in and cheat.sh guy
2021-03-07T04:59:50 #kisslinux <acheam> mine does have stronger requirements though...
2021-03-07T06:19:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> So are you guys familiar with the Sharp Zaurus PDAs?
2021-03-07T09:59:05 #kisslinux <MueVoid> So I am trying a tool that needs /dev/uinput however that doesn't exist. Is it a kernel module or could it be since I'm using mdev? I'm unsure how that is created to be honest and not sure if it's related to KISS or my setup
2021-03-07T10:02:15 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I think it's a kernel thing
2021-03-07T11:59:28 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Anyone know of any good gui image editors that are packaged for KISS or aren't but don't have as many deps as something like gimp
2021-03-07T13:01:43 #kisslinux <acheam> what kind of editing do you need to do?
2021-03-07T13:10:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> https://gitlab.com/cryptsetup/cryptsetup/-/issues/627
2021-03-07T13:10:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> if you live on the edge, someday you'll fall
2021-03-07T13:19:56 #kisslinux <acheam> ergh why doesn't gitlab allow you to see even just the readme of a repo without running non free js
2021-03-07T13:20:17 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> gitlab doesn't even load the file list without js
2021-03-07T13:20:31 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> but i think readme should load
2021-03-07T13:20:52 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> and why is the js nonfree ? isnt glab opensource
2021-03-07T13:22:23 #kisslinux <acheam> only the core is
2021-03-07T13:22:38 #kisslinux <acheam> lots of code they run on gitlab.com is
2021-03-07T13:22:45 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> oh
2021-03-07T13:22:54 #kisslinux <acheam> but most self hosted instances are the open source community edition
2021-03-07T13:23:16 #kisslinux <acheam> s/is/isn't free
2021-03-07T13:23:54 #kisslinux <acheam> and the only thing that loads for me is the navbar, below that is just grey
2021-03-07T13:26:08 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> gitlab is slow as fuck
2021-03-07T13:26:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> like 10x slower than github
2021-03-07T13:26:35 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> and a lot of gh stuff works without js too
2021-03-07T13:49:49 #kisslinux <acheam> I know this is used as an ad for sr.ht, the difference is striking: https://forgeperf.org/
2021-03-07T13:50:04 #kisslinux <acheam> s/the/but the/
2021-03-07T13:50:05 #kisslinux <kissbot> <acheam> I know this is used as an ad for sr.ht, but the difference is striking: https://forgeperf.org/
2021-03-07T13:55:19 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> lol bitbucket
2021-03-07T13:58:42 #kisslinux <acheam> I understand the enterprise appeal of it, but still...
2021-03-07T13:59:12 #kisslinux <acheam> I cringe when I see FOSS projects using it
2021-03-07T16:04:05 #kisslinux <varbhat> after,so long, song of the day has been changed :)
2021-03-07T16:11:39 #kisslinux <acheam> oi, i've been changing it daily for the last week
2021-03-07T16:11:59 #kisslinux <acheam> but its nice to see it recognized at last !
2021-03-07T17:01:27 #kisslinux <acheam> kiedtl: so whats our status with freenode regarding the group registration and stuff?
2021-03-07T17:19:10 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it would be kinda funny if just now that the org takeover is mostly complete and a new BDFL in place, dylan comes back :)
2021-03-07T17:19:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and he'd be like "lol i didn't want to pay for the domain any longer so i disappeared"
2021-03-07T17:28:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> that would be pretty saucey of him ngl
2021-03-07T18:09:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> >tfw you forget to set up an ssh daemon on your other machine so you actually have to get up and walk over to use it, like some sort of pleb
2021-03-07T18:10:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> might as well just kms at this point
2021-03-07T18:13:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> f
2021-03-07T18:14:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> woah dude what the fuck
2021-03-07T18:14:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> oksh has a built-in command to repeat either your last command, or the command before last
2021-03-07T18:14:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> what sort of black magick
2021-03-07T18:20:35 #kisslinux <acheam> its usually just !!
2021-03-07T18:21:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> !! is a bashism
2021-03-07T18:21:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> in the case of oksh it seems like r does the job
2021-03-07T18:21:51 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nice
2021-03-07T18:22:16 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm, yeah ash doesn't have it
2021-03-07T18:22:18 #kisslinux <acheam> but zsh does
2021-03-07T18:22:25 #kisslinux <acheam> which is why I assumed it wasn't a bashism
2021-03-07T18:22:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> zsh is to bash what bash is to ksh
2021-03-07T18:22:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> a more bloated and clunky way to get things done
2021-03-07T18:22:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> but hey it looks nice!
2021-03-07T18:23:05 #kisslinux <acheam> interestingly, zsh has "r", but ash and bash dont
2021-03-07T18:23:15 #kisslinux <acheam> you might be confusing ohmyzsh and zsh
2021-03-07T18:23:20 #kisslinux <acheam> zsh is pretty lean on its onw
2021-03-07T18:23:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> no. i'm not
2021-03-07T18:23:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> and no, it isn't
2021-03-07T18:23:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> the only shell more bloated than zsh by default is bash
2021-03-07T18:23:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> and not by much
2021-03-07T18:23:45 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm not saying it isn't bloated
2021-03-07T18:23:50 #kisslinux <acheam> heck, it has built in tetris
2021-03-07T18:24:01 #kisslinux <acheam> but its a really nice interactive shell
2021-03-07T18:24:02 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> how do you prefix a sucmd like ssu to `r`
2021-03-07T18:24:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> considering I just randomly found it, not sure
2021-03-07T18:24:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> but there's probably some method
2021-03-07T18:25:17 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm yeah it isn't expanded by the shell like !! is
2021-03-07T18:25:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> although honestly it doesn't bug me a whole lot
2021-03-07T18:25:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't go crazy with shell expansions and stuff outside of scripts
2021-03-07T18:26:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> my terminal is a very boring place
2021-03-07T18:27:12 #kisslinux <jedavies> Cross building on the clang toolchain is progressing, got surf going now: https://pasteboard.co/JRxUNK5.png
2021-03-07T18:47:58 #kisslinux <aarng> r is just an alias for fc -s
2021-03-07T18:49:01 #kisslinux <acheam> woot!
2021-03-07T18:49:28 #kisslinux <aarng> oksh also has custom completion via arrays
2021-03-07T18:50:28 #kisslinux <aarng> typeset -A complete_foo --foo --bar
2021-03-07T18:51:11 #kisslinux <acheam> hmmmm
2021-03-07T18:57:01 #kisslinux <aarng> another fun one is macro expansion for vi-input mode
2021-03-07T18:57:12 #kisslinux <aarng> alias _a=Afoo
2021-03-07T18:57:21 #kisslinux <aarng> then type @a in normal mode
2021-03-07T18:57:27 #kisslinux <acheam> woah thats nice
2021-03-07T18:57:40 #kisslinux <aarng> never needed it but maybe some day, lol
2021-03-07T18:58:13 #kisslinux <acheam> omg, zsh has a built-in ftp client
2021-03-07T18:58:22 #kisslinux <aarng> jesus
2021-03-07T18:58:24 #kisslinux <acheam> not as part of the main program, but some distros ship it
2021-03-07T18:59:30 #kisslinux <acheam> https://man.archlinux.org/man/zshzftpsys.1
2021-03-07T19:00:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> excuse me what the fuck
2021-03-07T19:00:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...WHY WOULD YOU BUILD A NETWORKING PROTOCOL INTO THE COMMAND INTERPRETER
2021-03-07T19:00:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> no, that's it
2021-03-07T19:00:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> I quit
2021-03-07T19:00:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> no more computers
2021-03-07T19:02:00 #kisslinux <acheam> it also has https://man.archlinux.org/man/zshtcpsys.1
2021-03-07T19:02:10 #kisslinux <midfavila>  ...
2021-03-07T19:02:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> w h y
2021-03-07T19:02:31 #kisslinux <acheam> because its more minimalist to just have 1 program do everything obvs
2021-03-07T19:02:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> right of course2021-03-07T19:02:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> just pack everything into the kernel itself though
2021-03-07T19:02:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> then you can just use shared memory for IPC
2021-03-07T19:03:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> goddamn soydevs
2021-03-07T19:03:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> brb
2021-03-07T19:04:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay back
2021-03-07T19:11:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> for those of you who have experience programming in C, what would be some useful beginner projects? i wouldn't mind trying my hand at writing, say, a simple image viewer, but I'm not sure if that would be a more advanced project
2021-03-07T19:13:01 #kisslinux <acheam> if you're using imlib or something to handle the images that shouldn't be *too* difficult, but what do I know
2021-03-07T19:13:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> more than me lmao
2021-03-07T19:13:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'll probably look at sxiv and see how that project handles it. Pretty sure they use imlib
2021-03-07T19:13:54 #kisslinux <acheam> http://web.mit.edu/graphics/src/imlib-1.7/doc/
2021-03-07T19:14:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> I want to make something akin to gpicview, but using Xaw and with fewer unneeded features
2021-03-07T19:14:05 #kisslinux <acheam> has an example of a simple image viewer code using imlib
2021-03-07T19:14:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> Kewl
2021-03-07T19:32:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> everybody's favorite starter C program is an IRC client :v
2021-03-07T19:32:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> half the people in this channel have written one
2021-03-07T19:32:26 #kisslinux <acheam> or a fetch program
2021-03-07T19:34:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> if you don't brag about your $fetchpun written in $language did you even make it bro
2021-03-07T19:34:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> rust fetch should've been called retch. because that's what it make me do
2021-03-07T19:36:51 #kisslinux <acheam> https://i.imgur.com/EM0WG3T.png
2021-03-07T19:38:50 #kisslinux <acheam> actually, slightly better: https://i.imgur.com/KCYcHWR.png
2021-03-07T19:39:38 #kisslinux <acheam> and yes, I know that that technically isnt an "if then else" statement but idgaf
2021-03-07T19:45:10 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Hello again everyone. Thanks for earlier tips on my kernel graphics problems to dilyn and midfavila- solved it. Now on my way to experiment with wayland. Any useful tips? Like compiling kernel in chroot to have less installed packages
2021-03-07T19:46:10 #kisslinux <acheam> tips re: wayland, or anything?
2021-03-07T19:46:48 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Literally anything
2021-03-07T19:47:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> tons of advice re: anything
2021-03-07T19:47:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> repositories can go anywhere you want, they need not be git repos...
2021-03-07T19:48:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> making a package for the kernel is uneccessary but a lot of people enjoy doing it. probably one of the harder things to package tbh
2021-03-07T19:48:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> wayland is nice if you aren't using nvidia graphics, 5/7 perfect score would recommend
2021-03-07T19:48:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> uuummmm
2021-03-07T19:49:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> use and abuse services :v
2021-03-07T19:50:56 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Cool, thanks! Should've thought about packaging kernel myself probably but I doubt it would be faster or better in any way
2021-03-07T19:53:02 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> sv is from runit if I remember right which is super awesome. really need to abuse it
2021-03-07T20:00:26 #kisslinux <midfavila>  nxghtmvrx re: tips
2021-03-07T20:00:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> install gentoo
2021-03-07T20:01:31 #kisslinux <acheam> run while you can
2021-03-07T20:01:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's already too late
2021-03-07T20:02:02 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> >gentoo yeah good one. but I don't think that I would after kiss because they have kinda messy deps system because of an age
2021-03-07T20:02:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> install. gentoo.2021-03-07T20:02:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> rn
2021-03-07T20:02:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> but yeah most older distros have a disgustingly messy package system
2021-03-07T20:03:29 #kisslinux <kiedtl> acheam: fuck I forgot, I'll get to it today :V
2021-03-07T20:03:37 #kisslinux <acheam> ?
2021-03-07T20:03:42 #kisslinux <kiedtl> org transfer to dilyn
2021-03-07T20:03:55 #kisslinux <acheam> ah
2021-03-07T20:03:58 #kisslinux <kiedtl> This time, I'll get to it for real
2021-03-07T20:04:20 #kisslinux <acheam> take your time :) Its not a rush
2021-03-07T20:04:47 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila: re beginner C projects, a good idea is to reimplement a couple coreutil utilities (e.g. ls, cat, yes). Don't bother with someof the fancy features, the core functionality is good
2021-03-07T20:05:11 #kisslinux <kiedtl> For something slightly more advanced, you might want to try expanding sic's functionality
2021-03-07T20:05:18 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> moar coar
2021-03-07T20:05:54 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> /bin/true: int main(){return 0;}
2021-03-07T20:06:05 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Though, you could always just write a mandelbrot set viewer lol
2021-03-07T20:06:47 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Why bother with main? while (1) {}
2021-03-07T20:06:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> C needs main
2021-03-07T20:07:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> /bin/true: main(){}
2021-03-07T20:07:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> for the last ten minutes i've been trying to push community to the mirror and it keeps failing
2021-03-07T20:07:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> and then i realized repo's main branch is named master, and community's is named main
2021-03-07T20:07:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> qq wtf
2021-03-07T20:07:22 #kisslinux <kiedtl> both the 'int' and the 'return 0;' are unnecessaary lol
2021-03-07T20:07:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lolol
2021-03-07T20:07:45 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I think I've tried without main with true and it worked, lemme check
2021-03-07T20:07:46 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> maybe in K&R land
2021-03-07T20:07:51 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> not in C99 iirc
2021-03-07T20:08:00 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ^^
2021-03-07T20:08:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> based trad K&R
2021-03-07T20:09:18 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> re K&R: lately i checked out their limbo language, ugly as fuck
2021-03-07T20:09:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> well limbo was meant to be a new approach to programming
2021-03-07T20:09:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> so it's not surprising that it's ugly
2021-03-07T20:09:49 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> also verbose
2021-03-07T20:10:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> idk verbosity can help sometimes
2021-03-07T20:10:03 #kisslinux <kiedtl> limbo is a predecessor to go afaik
2021-03-07T20:10:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> but if it's like, too verbose...
2021-03-07T20:10:10 #kisslinux * kiedtl looks at ada
2021-03-07T20:10:14 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> why would i code in a gc'd lang if i have to write more code than in C
2021-03-07T20:10:37 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-03-07T20:10:40 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I'm sad that cyclone dialect for C dead tho. Was interesting thing
2021-03-07T20:10:49 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> link?
2021-03-07T20:10:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> idk man my programming career is limited to writing hello world in like ten languages
2021-03-07T20:10:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> also yeah cyclone was cool
2021-03-07T20:10:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-03-07T20:11:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> but then it died and a lot of its ideas were corrupted into rust
2021-03-07T20:11:19 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> https://cyclone.thelanguage.org/
2021-03-07T20:11:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> C+type safety became mozilla shill garbage
2021-03-07T20:11:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> thx
2021-03-07T20:11:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila: mozilla had little to do with rust for a long time though afaik
2021-03-07T20:11:58 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> actually one should study how their borrow checker shit works and implement a sane lang based on that
2021-03-07T20:12:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> to send mozilla & rust into inferno
2021-03-07T20:12:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> don't corrupt the plan 9 ecosystem with pozzilla
2021-03-07T20:13:09 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol what do you have against rust? other than cargo it's pretty good imho
2021-03-07T20:13:43 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Ah, it was void _start() { while (1) {} }
2021-03-07T20:13:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> takes forever to build anything, doesn't really provide any benefits over C when it comes to systems programming, the community that's built around it makes me want to vomit, etc
2021-03-07T20:13:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> and their stupid compiler overrides makeflag
2021-03-07T20:14:01 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> https://drewdevault.com/2021/02/09/Rust-move-fast-and-break-things.html
2021-03-07T20:14:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> s/makeflag/makeflags/
2021-03-07T20:14:06 #kisslinux <kissbot> <midfavila> and their stupid compiler overrides makeflags
2021-03-07T20:14:13 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> Feb 23 20:56:54 <sh4rm4^bnc>    g0r3, huge build times, almost impossible to bootstrap from source, no stable API, missing support for many archs, microdependencies, and it's creeping into a lot of mainstream packages. could well result in the death of many smaller distros that can't keep up with the rust shit.
2021-03-07T20:14:13 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> Feb 23 20:59:09 <sh4rm4^bnc>    also if you got a rust dependency in your build-from-source distro, you suddenly need 8 GB ram and a fast multicore cpu to build
2021-03-07T20:14:24 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> That's what rust is: move fast and break things
2021-03-07T20:14:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> "stable API"?
2021-03-07T20:14:41 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> Feb 23 21:30:05 <sh4rm4^bnc>    i mean that you can't compile rust 1.14 with rust 1.12
2021-03-07T20:14:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> a programming language that "moves fast and breaks things" shouldn't be used as the basis in any production-level software
2021-03-07T20:14:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> literally change my mind
2021-03-07T20:14:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ABI or syntax?
2021-03-07T20:15:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> in any way.
2021-03-07T20:15:18 #kisslinux <kiedtl> mhm
2021-03-07T20:15:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> deprecating things because "oh well it's just OLD and GROSS" is stupid
2021-03-07T20:15:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i dont know why you cant compile RUST_VER_X with RUST_VER_X-2, but it doesnt work
2021-03-07T20:15:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> look at python2 and 3
2021-03-07T20:15:40 #kisslinux <varbhat> gtk or qt. what's your preference?
2021-03-07T20:15:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> me? gtk, but only 2
2021-03-07T20:16:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> 1 isn't supported by anything any more and 3+ are horrendous
2021-03-07T20:16:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> qt has licensing issues
2021-03-07T20:16:15 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila: it's sometimes necessary, though. Just look at Windows and all the tech debt they're mired in because they decided to support stuff from 30+ years ago.
2021-03-07T20:16:16 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> gtk+2, same
2021-03-07T20:16:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> check out stlwrt sh4rm4^bnc
2021-03-07T20:16:30 #kisslinux <varbhat> gtk2 is now almost unmaintained
2021-03-07T20:16:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> i still use xaw
2021-03-07T20:16:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> maintainance schmaintenance
2021-03-07T20:16:47 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> kiedtl, that's also why they sell their shit: people want to use their old stuff
2021-03-07T20:16:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> kiedtl yeah sure I'm not saying never break anything
2021-03-07T20:16:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> sometimes breaking changes are needed
2021-03-07T20:17:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> but obsoleting programs with every new revision of a language is just... no
2021-03-07T20:17:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> how are you supposed to make any progress when you have to rewrite it every three or four months?
2021-03-07T20:17:21 #kisslinux <varbhat> <midfavila "qt has licensing issues "> how can it affect you?
2021-03-07T20:17:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> varbhat modern versions are being released under a proprietary license, with only occassional updates to the open source version
2021-03-07T20:17:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> so that can result in security, stability and performance penalties
2021-03-07T20:17:59 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Rust is not a language but a cult/lifestyle in my eyes. They rewrite everything in rust but its ten times worse and don't even look at its size compared to similar things in other lang
2021-03-07T20:18:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...of course this is all ignoring that Qt is bloated and ugly as shit
2021-03-07T20:18:32 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and C++ and takes hours to build
2021-03-07T20:18:41 #kisslinux <varbhat> <midfavila "Var Bhat modern versions are bei"> really?
2021-03-07T20:18:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-03-07T20:19:01 #kisslinux <varbhat> i thought kde qt protection organization did some agreement
2021-03-07T20:19:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> the community liason group is trying to fight the qt corp but
2021-03-07T20:19:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> like
2021-03-07T20:19:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> the agreement was "don't leave us TOTALLY in the dust"
2021-03-07T20:19:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> this is why I stick to the free software camp and not the open source camp
2021-03-07T20:19:39 #kisslinux <Rio6> anyone heard of fltk?
2021-03-07T20:19:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> fltk is based
2021-03-07T20:19:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I wish more stuff used it
2021-03-07T20:19:47 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> but C++
2021-03-07T20:19:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> but yeah you can never trust a group that's out to make money
2021-03-07T20:20:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> they'll throw you under the bus as soon as it's convenient for them
2021-03-07T20:20:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd sooner trust stallman than gates or jobs
2021-03-07T20:20:18 #kisslinux <varbhat> https://kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation/
2021-03-07T20:20:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> for me the fact that there even needs to be a "free qt foundation" is a problem
2021-03-07T20:20:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> software that's fundamental to a workflow should be *inherently* free
2021-03-07T20:21:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't need to worry about it that way
2021-03-07T20:21:11 #kisslinux <acheam> imagine rewritng KDE Plasma in GTK
2021-03-07T20:21:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> imagine using KDE
2021-03-07T20:21:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> lmao
2021-03-07T20:21:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> wow sltwrt is based
2021-03-07T20:21:43 #kisslinux <Rio6> imagine using de
2021-03-07T20:21:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> stlwrt is very based
2021-03-07T20:21:51 #kisslinux <varbhat> <acheam "imagine rewritng KDE Plasma in G"> it's possible. i wish they did. by that, we would not let gnome have monopoly over gtk
2021-03-07T20:21:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm really, really, really excited for the first production release
2021-03-07T20:22:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> because yeah see varbhat
2021-03-07T20:22:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> GNOME is pozzed
2021-03-07T20:22:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> should have just stayed with GNOME 1 and GNOME 2
2021-03-07T20:22:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> now we're on GNOME 40
2021-03-07T20:22:45 #kisslinux <varbhat> <midfavila "should have just stayed with GNO"> what about mate?
2021-03-07T20:22:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> because "version numbers are a social construct"
2021-03-07T20:22:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> MATE is shit too
2021-03-07T20:22:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> because GTK3
2021-03-07T20:22:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> you literally can't win
2021-03-07T20:23:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> XFCE *used* to be great but then they too switched to 3
2021-03-07T20:23:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> and now it's garbage
2021-03-07T20:23:33 #kisslinux <varbhat> what made 3 bad?
2021-03-07T20:23:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> prime example of why GTK3 is awful: look at its file selection dialog compared to 2
2021-03-07T20:23:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's inferior in every single possible way
2021-03-07T20:23:50 #kisslinux <varbhat> and what made 4 worse
2021-03-07T20:23:51 #kisslinux <dilyn> only occassional updates to the free license Qt? This is incorrect
2021-03-07T20:23:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> they will simply be delayed
2021-03-07T20:24:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> same thing
2021-03-07T20:24:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's a problem either way
2021-03-07T20:24:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> these aren't the same lmfao
2021-03-07T20:24:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> free software shouldn't be second-class compared to proprietary
2021-03-07T20:24:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I mean, how do you expect the company to survive on FOSS alone?
2021-03-07T20:24:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> I mean, you aren't the owner of the software lad
2021-03-07T20:24:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> they can do what they want
2021-03-07T20:24:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's why I don't use it dilyn
2021-03-07T20:24:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-03-07T20:24:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I don't really care about the company
2021-03-07T20:24:48 #kisslinux <varbhat> https://www.copperspice.com/
2021-03-07T20:24:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean besides; the git repository is still FOSS so you just have to use that instead of the tarballs if you want updates 'on time'
2021-03-07T20:24:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> sell support, do contracting, whatever
2021-03-07T20:25:04 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i've written a detailed blog post about why gtk+3 sucks https://sabotage-linux.neocities.org/blog/8/
2021-03-07T20:25:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> >neocities
2021-03-07T20:25:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> amazing
2021-03-07T20:25:17 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila: "Look, the third argument should be uint16_t, not size_t"
2021-03-07T20:25:24 #kisslinux <kiedtl> support? lol
2021-03-07T20:27:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> my point is
2021-03-07T20:27:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> idc about "muh cumbonee"
2021-03-07T20:28:22 #kisslinux <acheam> cumbonee?
2021-03-07T20:28:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> company
2021-03-07T20:28:30 #kisslinux <acheam> ah
2021-03-07T20:28:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> like red hat could die this instant
2021-03-07T20:28:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I'd celebrate it
2021-03-07T20:28:48 #kisslinux <acheam> I was pronouncing it like zamboni
2021-03-07T20:28:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> that was the intent
2021-03-07T20:28:55 #kisslinux <varbhat> which distro do you use aside from kiss?
2021-03-07T20:28:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> slackware
2021-03-07T20:29:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> or CRUX
2021-03-07T20:29:02 #kisslinux <acheam> arch
2021-03-07T20:29:06 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ew
2021-03-07T20:29:06 #kisslinux <acheam> and debian
2021-03-07T20:29:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> disgusting
2021-03-07T20:29:10 #kisslinux <varbhat> systemd!
2021-03-07T20:29:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> just KISS
2021-03-07T20:29:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> i use slackware for my "just werks" needs
2021-03-07T20:29:23 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> void
2021-03-07T20:29:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> and my servers
2021-03-07T20:29:30 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> (musl)
2021-03-07T20:29:37 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I just use alpine
2021-03-07T20:29:40 #kisslinux <kiedtl> blessed by dylan
2021-03-07T20:29:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> my repo mirror also runs on kiss :v
2021-03-07T20:29:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> alpine is comfy
2021-03-07T20:29:48 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ehh
2021-03-07T20:29:52 #kisslinux <kiedtl> not really :<
2021-03-07T20:30:00 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I have basically the same complaints dylan had
2021-03-07T20:30:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's not comfy if you want to use a graphical environment
2021-03-07T20:30:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> that was a struggle and a half to get set up
2021-03-07T20:30:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> packages not updated on time, team more focused on server stuff, etc
2021-03-07T20:30:18 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila: yeah, precisely
2021-03-07T20:30:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> I stand by my belief that alpine should never be run on x86
2021-03-07T20:30:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> i only recently started using GUIs on my laptop which is really the only time I use "minimal" setups
2021-03-07T20:30:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> it was designed for routers and shit. what are you doing putting it on a desktop smdh
2021-03-07T20:30:48 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I'm running it on armv6l, dilyn
2021-03-07T20:30:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> minimal being, you know, musl, whatever
2021-03-07T20:30:54 #kisslinux <kiedtl> raspberry pi
2021-03-07T20:31:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> man I wish risc-v desktops were here already
2021-03-07T20:31:13 #kisslinux <kiedtl> it's the lightest distro I could find for the pi0w (not including *bsd, which doesn't have wifi drivers)
2021-03-07T20:31:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> the only good arch is x86, alpine should not run on x86, ergo alpine is not good :v
2021-03-07T20:31:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> wait bsd isn't a distro what am i saying
2021-03-07T20:31:40 #kisslinux <kiedtl> x86 is anything but kiss though
2021-03-07T20:31:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> fuck you dilyn z80 is great
2021-03-07T20:31:57 #kisslinux <kiedtl> i mean, it needs a separate 386 CPU to boot it up
2021-03-07T20:32:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> muh instructions
2021-03-07T20:32:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> muh reel mode
2021-03-07T20:32:26 #kisslinux <kiedtl> darn x86, rixcv will solve world hunger
2021-03-07T20:32:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> next up... fossil mirror. oh boy
2021-03-07T20:32:28 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> yeah risc-v rocks so much. want to have sbc myself
2021-03-07T20:32:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> if I had the money I'd be using a POWER system
2021-03-07T20:32:50 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: https first!
2021-03-07T20:32:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I don't have 30k burning a hole in my pocket
2021-03-07T20:32:56 #kisslinux <acheam> boycotts still up btw
2021-03-07T20:32:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> eeeeeeeehhhhhhh
2021-03-07T20:33:12 #kisslinux <acheam> also, consider mirroring all the kiss repos
2021-03-07T20:33:20 #kisslinux <acheam> not just the package repos
2021-03-07T20:33:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's great because I *have* the ssl certs, I just don't want to bother changing to something not-httpd
2021-03-07T20:33:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's under consideration! maybe
2021-03-07T20:33:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> probably :P
2021-03-07T20:33:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean it's not like important data is being sent to and from the server
2021-03-07T20:33:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> so it's not *that* big of a deal
2021-03-07T20:34:00 #kisslinux <acheam> encrypt. all. the. things.
2021-03-07T20:34:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> m e h
2021-03-07T20:34:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> indeed
2021-03-07T20:34:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> encrypt my hard drive and encrypt my bank login
2021-03-07T20:34:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> i just want the annoying 'this site is insecure' popup to go away
2021-03-07T20:34:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't need ssl to browse wikipedia
2021-03-07T20:34:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> what's an httpd-like that isn't apache or caddy lmfao
2021-03-07T20:34:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> darkhttpd
2021-03-07T20:34:57 #kisslinux <kiedtl> nginx
2021-03-07T20:34:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> darkhttpd
2021-03-07T20:34:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> darkhttpd
2021-03-07T20:35:05 #kisslinux <acheam> lightppd is good i've heard
2021-03-07T20:35:13 #kisslinux <acheam> but not incredibly minimal
2021-03-07T20:35:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> heard of the latter, not the former
2021-03-07T20:35:27 #kisslinux <acheam> you're gonna need a new httpd to do a reverse proxy for the other services anyways
2021-03-07T20:35:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> darkhttpd is specifically optimized for efficiency and static websites
2021-03-07T20:35:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> "When you need a web server in a hurry.
2021-03-07T20:35:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> " sold
2021-03-07T20:36:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> *dab*
2021-03-07T20:36:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh wait
2021-03-07T20:36:10 #kisslinux * midfavila dabs
2021-03-07T20:36:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> https://unix4lyfe.org/darkhttpd/ it's perfect!
2021-03-07T20:36:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> midfavila, heh, adelie linux lead dev bought a power 9, then was suddenly like "ppl should pay me for my work", then stopped doing it altogether
2021-03-07T20:36:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> there
2021-03-07T20:36:13 #kisslinux <acheam> also, why not caddy?
2021-03-07T20:36:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> thx fam
2021-03-07T20:36:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> because go
2021-03-07T20:36:28 #kisslinux <acheam> but go go vroom
2021-03-07T20:36:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> also, I just don't want a config file or anything
2021-03-07T20:36:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> go is equally as cringe as rust
2021-03-07T20:36:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> like, the less I have to write the better. httpd is brilliant because just httpd -h /path/to/www
2021-03-07T20:36:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> sh4rm4^bnc wtf even is adelie
2021-03-07T20:36:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> caddy i gotta like, actually know things. smh noty
2021-03-07T20:36:54 #kisslinux <acheam> no
2021-03-07T20:36:56 #kisslinux <acheam> caddy is the same
2021-03-07T20:36:56 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> another musl based distro, with a stupid name
2021-03-07T20:37:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> shush
2021-03-07T20:37:03 #kisslinux <acheam> except it will get the ssl cert for you automatically too
2021-03-07T20:37:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> also of course they would want payment. after buying a power9 they probably needed it to pay back their loan lmao
2021-03-07T20:37:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> the folks i bought the domain from already give me certs :v
2021-03-07T20:37:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> but maybe. we'll see
2021-03-07T20:37:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'll be playing around a lot
2021-03-07T20:37:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> i think I'll settle for my dual-xeon system for now though
2021-03-07T20:37:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> even if x86-64 is garbage
2021-03-07T20:38:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you could target x86-64-x32
2021-03-07T20:38:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> ew
2021-03-07T20:38:30 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's 5-8% faster due to using 32bit pointers
2021-03-07T20:38:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> no
2021-03-07T20:38:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> if i'm targetting an arch I'm targetting one cleanly
2021-03-07T20:38:50 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Nah I'd say Go is much better than rust. Its statically compiled and other nice stuff by design besides c-like syntax
2021-03-07T20:39:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> managing multilib on slackware and crux gave me ptsd
2021-03-07T20:39:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> nxghtmvrx, and fscking microdependencies because you can #include github/lamer/repo
2021-03-07T20:39:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> go just seems redundant
2021-03-07T20:39:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> like
2021-03-07T20:39:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> what's it for
2021-03-07T20:40:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> writing programs, or so I heard
2021-03-07T20:40:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> thanks smartass
2021-03-07T20:40:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> :v
2021-03-07T20:40:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> fr though what's its usage domain
2021-03-07T20:40:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> FORTRAN is scientific, C is systems and embedded, C++ is applications software, python is for getting laughed at, etc
2021-03-07T20:40:52 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> You can be moron in C too with including all the bloat. Same principles
2021-03-07T20:41:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> sure but that's only because most languages are turing complete
2021-03-07T20:41:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can fuck up the same way in all of those
2021-03-07T20:41:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> go makes it too easy to depend on small shit libs
2021-03-07T20:41:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> #require <is-even-odd.h>
2021-03-07T20:41:45 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> like instead of #include 30-line-ini-parser you roll your own
2021-03-07T20:41:49 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> in C
2021-03-07T20:42:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> the way modulus is often explained is weird
2021-03-07T20:42:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> and not even particularly correct
2021-03-07T20:42:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> "divide by x and take remainder" versus "it's the point at which a number's place rolls over"
2021-03-07T20:42:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> not sure if modulo and modulus are two seperate things or what
2021-03-07T20:43:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> maybe I'm being a brainlet again
2021-03-07T20:43:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah okay looks like I'm being a brainlet nvm
2021-03-07T20:43:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> gonna go kms
2021-03-07T20:43:38 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I agree but you wouldn't write, for example, command-line discord client in C. So sadly I can close my eye to some degree about that. Discord is cringe for sure so don't quote me on that. There's also matrix client for example
2021-03-07T20:43:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> C is fine for simple userspace programs
2021-03-07T20:44:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> and there's often no reason to have a complex userspace program
2021-03-07T20:44:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm of the opinion that if you're making something overly complex, you're making it poorly
2021-03-07T20:45:58 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah it would be nice if you just could throw away all the complex junk all the time(looks at X). Sadly reality not always like that
2021-03-07T20:47:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> with the availability of quickjs, js might even be an option to write safe progs
2021-03-07T20:48:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> its speed is roughly identical to lua
2021-03-07T20:48:16 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Muh electron stuff
2021-03-07T20:48:37 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> no, i'm talking about a self-contained 300KBish executable
2021-03-07T20:49:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> js is already too common
2021-03-07T20:56:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://magcius.github.io/xplain/article/x-basics.html
2021-03-07T20:56:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> see the section "Windows of all Shapes and Sizes" for why I hate JS
2021-03-07T20:56:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> slows my browser to a goddamn *crawl*
2021-03-07T21:01:59 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I think I should switch to terminal-only browser. There's not much of a reason to have any bloat like JS. If it won't load most important thing which is text it doesn't matter anyways. We'll see about JS programs (hopefully) not soon
2021-03-07T21:02:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> i suggest using lynx if you're only interested in text
2021-03-07T21:02:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you want images too, I would recommend Links
2021-03-07T21:02:34 #kisslinux <kiedtl> w3m is good too
2021-03-07T21:02:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> w3m is
2021-03-07T21:02:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> eh
2021-03-07T21:02:47 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dunno, I prefer w3m's interface
2021-03-07T21:02:52 #kisslinux <kiedtl> but
2021-03-07T21:02:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's literally just a pager
2021-03-07T21:02:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lynx can do gopher
2021-03-07T21:03:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> i think w3m is good for ultra lightweight systems
2021-03-07T21:03:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> but if you want a proper browser i think lynx is still the best choice, even if its configuration can be a little clunky
2021-03-07T21:03:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> it has the best rendering of the text browsers, imo
2021-03-07T21:04:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> whereas links just seems to think everything is a top-bottom left-right list
2021-03-07T21:04:04 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah lynx is great. Was using links for like two years because for some reason wasn't liking lynx at first
2021-03-07T21:04:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> lynx is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
2021-03-07T21:04:19 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ^^
2021-03-07T21:04:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> mostly because of its cookie handling
2021-03-07T21:04:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I think you can disable cookies pretty easily
2021-03-07T21:04:43 #kisslinux <kiedtl> AVVV
2021-03-07T21:04:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> ?
2021-03-07T21:04:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> neVer
2021-03-07T21:05:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> aah
2021-03-07T21:05:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah try loading youtube or some other big site in lynx
2021-03-07T21:05:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> watch how many cookies you get before you can load the page
2021-03-07T21:05:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> xwx
2021-03-07T21:05:42 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Nah i have newsboat for yt
2021-03-07T21:05:44 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> most modern websites render their stuff via js: document.write("<body...")
2021-03-07T21:05:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah I know
2021-03-07T21:05:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's disgusting
2021-03-07T21:05:51 #kisslinux <kiedtl> newsboat... for youtube?
2021-03-07T21:05:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> and for the record
2021-03-07T21:05:53 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> so you see zero text
2021-03-07T21:06:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> if any of you use JS to render your site
2021-03-07T21:06:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> you're a bad person
2021-03-07T21:06:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> unironically
2021-03-07T21:06:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's a serious accessibility issue
2021-03-07T21:06:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> plus it's just dumb and grinds performance to a halt
2021-03-07T21:06:42 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> honestly the web is unusable with a js-free browser like netsurf
2021-03-07T21:06:43 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah just use rss from channel you want, get notified about new video and configure newsboat which way you want to open it. So you can watch vids in ffmpeg for example
2021-03-07T21:06:54 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh
2021-03-07T21:06:56 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I see.
2021-03-07T21:06:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> sh4rm4^bnc I use netsurf on the daily and it's pretty good
2021-03-07T21:07:10 #kisslinux <kiedtl> sh4rm4^bnc: have been using netsurf for a year, can say it isn't pretty bad at all
2021-03-07T21:07:16 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it can only be used for wikipedia and neocities, not much else
2021-03-07T21:07:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> uh
2021-03-07T21:07:22 #kisslinux <kiedtl> nah
2021-03-07T21:07:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> what sites are you on my man
2021-03-07T21:07:39 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> github, for example
2021-03-07T21:07:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> only time I have to switch to nuegia browser is when I want to buy something on ebay
2021-03-07T21:07:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> shit on my laptop I get away with a patched Links
2021-03-07T21:08:09 #kisslinux <kiedtl> github is... viewable. you can't interact much though (what do you expect from a non-js browser?)
2021-03-07T21:08:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> ^
2021-03-07T21:08:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> but here's the thing
2021-03-07T21:08:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's *good*
2021-03-07T21:08:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's a feature
2021-03-07T21:08:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> the web is for retrieving and storing data
2021-03-07T21:09:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> not for interacting with it
2021-03-07T21:09:08 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i can't even open my router admin page with netsurf ...
2021-03-07T21:09:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> interaction should be done locally, in specialized programs
2021-03-07T21:09:17 #kisslinux <kiedtl> uh
2021-03-07T21:09:20 #kisslinux <kiedtl> what's you rrouter
2021-03-07T21:09:24 #kisslinux <kiedtl> s/r//
2021-03-07T21:09:25 #kisslinux <kissbot> <kiedtl> what's you router
2021-03-07T21:09:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> tbf most routers use JS
2021-03-07T21:09:48 #kisslinux <kiedtl> hm, I must have a good router then
2021-03-07T21:09:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean
2021-03-07T21:09:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> i have a top of the line router running oWRT
2021-03-07T21:10:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> and if I want the web UI I still need JS
2021-03-07T21:10:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> then again oWRT has an actual reason to use js
2021-03-07T21:10:30 #kisslinux <kiedtl> which is?
2021-03-07T21:10:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> runs a Lua virtual machine to dynamically create the user interface based on installed software
2021-03-07T21:10:54 #kisslinux <kiedtl> what the fuck
2021-03-07T21:11:04 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-03-07T21:11:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> LuCI might be a mess but it does its job well
2021-03-07T21:11:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> and it's surprisingly efficient
2021-03-07T21:11:32 #kisslinux <kiedtl> O.o
2021-03-07T21:11:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> for example let's say I want to add domain filtering
2021-03-07T21:12:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> I could ssh in, use opkg to pull the list of software, install the adblock package, and then manually add individual elements to the adblock list
2021-03-07T21:12:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> or I could use luci to just install it automatically, then click some buttons and bam
2021-03-07T21:13:21 #kisslinux <kiedtl> huh, that's sounding interesting owo
2021-03-07T21:13:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> owowowoowowowowooowowo
2021-03-07T21:13:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> it is
2021-03-07T21:13:34 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah really something
2021-03-07T21:13:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> LuCI is a legitimately good piece of software
2021-03-07T21:14:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> honestly I wish lua could be used in browsers directly
2021-03-07T21:14:27 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Need to write it somewhere so if I ever own a router I'll use it
2021-03-07T21:14:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> lua or lisp would be much better than JS
2021-03-07T21:15:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> but of course Sun had to ruin everything
2021-03-07T21:15:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> assholes
2021-03-07T21:15:07 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> JS can't be that if fabrice bellard made a compiler for it
2021-03-07T21:15:12 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> *that bad
2021-03-07T21:15:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> literally who
2021-03-07T21:15:29 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> author of tinycc, qemu, ...
2021-03-07T21:15:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> tell him to update tcc
2021-03-07T21:15:38 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I don't like lisp because emacs is an operating system. Don't know about other things tho
2021-03-07T21:15:46 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> he's generally considered to be a genius
2021-03-07T21:15:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> don't judge lisp based on the failings of emacs
2021-03-07T21:16:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's a capable and interesting language
2021-03-07T21:16:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> elisp is a failed abortion
2021-03-07T21:16:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> even GNU admits that
2021-03-07T21:16:16 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and unreadable at that
2021-03-07T21:17:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm gonna have to pick my copy of SICP back up..
2021-03-07T21:17:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I have to clean my apartment...
2021-03-07T21:17:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I'm lazy...
2021-03-07T21:17:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> the struggle
2021-03-07T21:18:18 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> midfavila, me too https://external-preview.redd.it/n7kXDejTwtimqzt34DFeOG0V8FBTDMIHwObSX90a4uc.jpg?auto=webp&s=7ba01318b469d5268f78ec160f9e32d49ef8af21
2021-03-07T21:18:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> recursive 4chan image theft
2021-03-07T21:18:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> my desk isn't nearly that bad though thank god
2021-03-07T21:19:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've got, like
2021-03-07T21:19:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> a multimeter and some screwdrivers
2021-03-07T21:19:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> and there's a soda bottle cap that I haven't gotten around to throwing out yet
2021-03-07T21:19:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> and my books
2021-03-07T21:19:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> and that's really it
2021-03-07T21:19:54 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> In case any of you might be interesting. Its QMK but for any keyboard and works on linux/mac/windows https://github.com/david-janssen/kmonad
2021-03-07T21:20:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> >not having multiple keyboard layouts controlled by a DIP switch flashed to your keyboard's firmware
2021-03-07T21:20:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> get on my level, peasant
2021-03-07T21:20:53 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> s/interesting/interested/
2021-03-07T21:20:54 #kisslinux <kissbot> <nxghtmvrx> In case any of you might be interested. Its QMK but for any keyboard and works on linux/mac/windows https://github.com/david-janssen/kmonad
2021-03-07T21:21:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> monad, sounds like haskell
2021-03-07T21:21:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> also wow useful software written in haskell
2021-03-07T21:21:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's a first
2021-03-07T21:21:31 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah it is in haskell
2021-03-07T21:21:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> haskell is a cool language
2021-03-07T21:21:49 #kisslinux <acheam> I tried playing around with that but the syntax is gross
2021-03-07T21:21:52 #kisslinux <acheam> also yeah, haskell
2021-03-07T21:21:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> a guy I know IRL is suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper into haskell
2021-03-07T21:22:02 #kisslinux <acheam> cool language, horrible for packaging
2021-03-07T21:22:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> mind you he also writes proofs for fun
2021-03-07T21:22:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> so he's... unique
2021-03-07T21:22:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> a math fanatic
2021-03-07T21:22:41 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Syntax may be gross but there's no alternatives. QMK is too good to throw away so same with kmonad
2021-03-07T21:22:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> soarer's is better than QMK
2021-03-07T21:23:04 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Link?
2021-03-07T21:23:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> just look it up
2021-03-07T21:23:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> smh
2021-03-07T21:23:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> but yeah dude's definitely big into math
2021-03-07T21:23:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> knows way more than I do about tech stuff too.
2021-03-07T21:23:41 #kisslinux <acheam> I can't find it
2021-03-07T21:24:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://deskthority.net/wiki/Soarer%27s_Converter
2021-03-07T21:24:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> converts old keebs for use on modern machines
2021-03-07T21:24:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> provides a pseudo-programming language and tools to flash keymaps to the onboard firmware chip
2021-03-07T21:25:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> so I can write a keymap that sets my layout to azerty if the first DIP on my board is on, qwerty if it's off, for example
2021-03-07T21:25:10 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Sounds super awesome
2021-03-07T21:25:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's also USB so it's portable across OSes
2021-03-07T21:25:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> and you can connect everything from old RJ11 terminal keyboards to DIN and PS/2 boards
2021-03-07T21:25:43 #kisslinux <acheam> its proprietary
2021-03-07T21:25:51 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> yeah closed source sadly
2021-03-07T21:26:06 #kisslinux <acheam> thats a funny way of saying "proprietary garbage"
2021-03-07T21:26:21 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-03-07T21:26:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> None, one or infinity.
2021-03-07T21:26:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> This is my one.
2021-03-07T21:28:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> math is the way
2021-03-07T21:29:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> I wish people were better at teaching maths.
2021-03-07T21:29:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> There's not a lot of good resources for beginners, in my experience, beyond khan academy
2021-03-07T21:30:07 #kisslinux <acheam> you mean like algebra or theoretical maths?
2021-03-07T21:30:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> Algebra, pre-calc, introductory calc, geometry, etc
2021-03-07T21:30:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> "practical" maths
2021-03-07T21:30:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> 'practical'
2021-03-07T21:30:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> f
2021-03-07T21:30:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> practical as opposed to theoretical
2021-03-07T21:30:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> useful either way
2021-03-07T21:31:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> they ARE theoretical
2021-03-07T21:31:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> the thing you have to understand about those courses is that they are almost entirely a collection of tools to use for solving actual problems
2021-03-07T21:31:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...yes I know
2021-03-07T21:31:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> those problems being the ones you find in your 'theoretical' topics
2021-03-07T21:31:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm not saying they're *not* practical
2021-03-07T21:32:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm just referring to more fundamental elements of math as "practical" in the sense that I can actually use them in day to day life
2021-03-07T21:32:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> you say they're fundamental elements of math but like, they were almost all exclusively developed to solve actual theoretical problems
2021-03-07T21:32:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> knowing how to make infinite non-repeating patterns is cool but I can't use it to build a desk
2021-03-07T21:32:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> dude
2021-03-07T21:32:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't care
2021-03-07T21:32:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> lmao
2021-03-07T21:32:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-03-07T21:33:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> it doesn't matter that you don't care, your opinion on it is fundamentally skewed
2021-03-07T21:33:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> you don't seem to understand my opinion in the first place
2021-03-07T21:33:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> you think calculus solves practical problems, but that's not why we have calculus
2021-03-07T21:33:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> did i get that right in the first part?
2021-03-07T21:33:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay so then we can stick calc in theoretical if it makes you happy
2021-03-07T21:34:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm not trying to have a socratic debate here my dude
2021-03-07T21:34:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> just a conversation.
2021-03-07T21:34:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol it doesn't matter what makes me happy!
2021-03-07T21:34:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> there's nothing socratic about me just telling you you're wrong :P
2021-03-07T21:34:36 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Well even infinite non-repeating patterns practical to some extent and have a real use but I don't remember what exactly
2021-03-07T21:34:45 #kisslinux * midfavila eyerolls
2021-03-07T21:35:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> math is overrated, one can do everything with for-loops
2021-03-07T21:35:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> my point originally was that access to maths education is low quality in my area
2021-03-07T21:35:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> :|
2021-03-07T21:35:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> that's true everywhere :'(
2021-03-07T21:35:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> and, to build on that, lacking in maths results in people not having the skills they need to solve real world problems
2021-03-07T21:35:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's why I used the word "practical"
2021-03-07T21:36:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> not to arbitrarily box the field into seperate groups, but to refer to what regular people need to know
2021-03-07T21:37:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> anyway I'm going to make a cup of tea
2021-03-07T21:41:14 #kisslinux <acheam> sh4rm4^bnc: what're those? We use while loops with a counter variable here in posix shell gang
2021-03-07T21:41:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> you meme but
2021-03-07T21:41:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> >.<
2021-03-07T21:42:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> some of my older scripts do that
2021-03-07T21:42:52 #kisslinux <acheam> i mean, what's the alternative
2021-03-07T21:42:56 #kisslinux <acheam> that part was not a meme
2021-03-07T21:43:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> considering the circumstances
2021-03-07T21:43:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> for file in ./*
2021-03-07T21:43:15 #kisslinux <acheam> thats not posix is it?
2021-03-07T21:43:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> as opposed to using ls and wc and sed to target specific files
2021-03-07T21:43:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I mean, I'm pretty sure it is
2021-03-07T21:43:39 #kisslinux <acheam> wait what
2021-03-07T21:43:43 #kisslinux <acheam> oh my god
2021-03-07T21:44:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> like you can't do for loops as you would in bash
2021-03-07T21:44:13 #kisslinux <acheam> i just assumed because for loops aren't a thing, for-each loops weren't too
2021-03-07T21:44:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah for each loops are totally a thing
2021-03-07T21:44:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> Lol you didn't think you could do  globs in POSIX sh?
2021-03-07T21:44:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> Oh wait the for loops I see
2021-03-07T21:44:38 #kisslinux <acheam> ye
2021-03-07T21:44:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> in my case I was writing a batch audio conversion script
2021-03-07T21:45:07 #kisslinux <acheam> so much for "find -maxdepth 1 | while read file"
2021-03-07T21:45:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> that would convert every file of a specific type into another file of a specific type based on the input from $1 and $2
2021-03-07T21:45:24 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> nah replace find with lr :p
2021-03-07T21:45:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> "lr"?
2021-03-07T21:45:41 #kisslinux <E5ten> acheam: lol that actually isn't POSIX cuz of the -maxdepth
2021-03-07T21:45:47 #kisslinux <E5ten> Not a POSIX flag
2021-03-07T21:45:55 #kisslinux <acheam> what
2021-03-07T21:45:57 #kisslinux <acheam> argh
2021-03-07T21:45:57 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> https://github.com/leahneukirchen/lr
2021-03-07T21:46:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> afaik only single-character flags tend to be posix
2021-03-07T21:46:14 #kisslinux <E5ten> That's not true for find though
2021-03-07T21:46:17 #kisslinux <acheam> hrmph
2021-03-07T21:46:19 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> lr is ls+find
2021-03-07T21:46:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> well yeah it's not always true
2021-03-07T21:46:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> That's why it's got the weird options
2021-03-07T21:46:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's a rule of thumb
2021-03-07T21:46:27 #kisslinux <acheam> nxghtmvrx: leah's software is great
2021-03-07T21:46:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> -- usually indicates a GNUism
2021-03-07T21:46:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> -longoptionshere are usually non-standard
2021-03-07T21:46:44 #kisslinux <acheam> is there an alternative to maxdepth?
2021-03-07T21:46:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yeah but that wouldn't help you with -maxdepth cuz it's a find flag
2021-03-07T21:46:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> i just use du
2021-03-07T21:47:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> I thought you were just gonna use for loops with globs now?
2021-03-07T21:47:05 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah many folks involved in voidlinux wrote cool things
2021-03-07T21:47:15 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Like gottox's bgs
2021-03-07T21:47:17 #kisslinux <acheam> well there are still times I want to find things with a max depth :)
2021-03-07T21:47:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> du has a depth specifier that's posix iirc
2021-03-07T21:47:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> -d
2021-03-07T21:47:33 #kisslinux <acheam> du is slow
2021-03-07T21:47:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> but du is portable
2021-03-07T21:47:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> shell script was never known for its speed :P
2021-03-07T21:48:03 #kisslinux <acheam> but du is *slow*
2021-03-07T21:48:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> midfavila: -d isn't POSIX
2021-03-07T21:48:11 #kisslinux <acheam> haha
2021-03-07T21:48:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> wait fuck you're right
2021-03-07T21:48:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> hrm
2021-03-07T21:48:32 #kisslinux <acheam> "du -d 1" for my homedir almost a second
2021-03-07T21:48:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...what the hell do you have in your home???
2021-03-07T21:48:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> the entirety of wikipedia?
2021-03-07T21:48:54 #kisslinux <acheam> videos, music, VM images
2021-03-07T21:49:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> I mean, what don't you have in your home lol?
2021-03-07T21:49:11 #kisslinux <E5ten> It takes up the vast majority of my space
2021-03-07T21:49:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> i keep very little in my /home
2021-03-07T21:49:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> Where do you put stuff?
2021-03-07T21:49:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> configuration files and a workspace
2021-03-07T21:49:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> everything else goes under /mass
2021-03-07T21:49:33 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Just write in c and shebang to tcc if you want speed
2021-03-07T21:49:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is usually its own partition on spinning disk
2021-03-07T21:49:47 #kisslinux <acheam> thats the equivalent of cleaning up your room as a kid by stuffing everything into the closet
2021-03-07T21:49:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> not really
2021-03-07T21:50:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> Nah it makes sense for a separate drive
2021-03-07T21:50:24 #kisslinux <acheam> if its a single use system just mount it to your home dir
2021-03-07T21:50:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> /home/midfavila/Workspace is where I keep stuff I'm actually doing in the moment, and then when I'm done with it, I'll sort it into either an archival or non-archival directory
2021-03-07T21:50:31 #kisslinux <acheam> s/use/user
2021-03-07T21:50:32 #kisslinux <kissbot> <acheam> if its a single user system just mount it to your home dir
2021-03-07T21:50:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> if it's archived it gets tarred and compressed
2021-03-07T21:50:37 #kisslinux <E5ten> I have a laptop with one drive so anything that isn't like a system cobfig file or part of a package goes in my home
2021-03-07T21:50:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> Config*
2021-03-07T21:50:58 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Nice. I'm using workspace subdirs to keep my stuff too
2021-03-07T21:51:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> my laptop only has one drive. but I have a high-capacity SD card to store stuff long-term
2021-03-07T21:51:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> considering replacing the optical drive in my dock with a proper disk
2021-03-07T21:51:41 #kisslinux <E5ten> Lol I was literally just talking to a friend less than 20 min ago about how I need to get a high capacity SD card
2021-03-07T21:51:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> Because my laptop has only one drive
2021-03-07T21:51:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> SD cards are unironically kind of awesome
2021-03-07T21:52:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> aside from the slow access times
2021-03-07T21:52:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> cheaper than even usb drives, super teeny, useable in basically everything
2021-03-07T21:52:32 #kisslinux <acheam> don't be surprised when your data goes *poof* though
2021-03-07T21:52:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've never had a non-shenzenium SD card die on me
2021-03-07T21:53:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> but if you get Data Express General Very Good-brand cards then yeah
2021-03-07T21:53:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm probably gonna get one of those short ones so it doesn't stick out of the laptop
2021-03-07T21:53:17 #kisslinux <acheam> make sure you can get it out!
2021-03-07T21:53:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> I wish my laptop had a CF slot
2021-03-07T21:53:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> CF is cool
2021-03-07T21:53:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> for all you leah fans: put sabotage on your list
2021-03-07T21:53:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> silence, shill
2021-03-07T21:53:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> acheam: yeah the base will stick out a bit so you can get your nails around it
2021-03-07T21:54:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> speaking of storage
2021-03-07T21:54:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> have you guys heard of thinkmods?
2021-03-07T21:54:43 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I want laptop with sim slot
2021-03-07T21:54:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> mine has a SIM slot
2021-03-07T21:54:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> still need to get a modem
2021-03-07T21:55:06 #kisslinux <acheam> sh4rm4^bnc: why's that?
2021-03-07T21:55:25 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Thinkmods? Thinkpad modding community?
2021-03-07T21:55:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> thinkmods is a store some dude started for proper aftermarket parts
2021-03-07T21:55:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> basically it's a laptop modding hobby store with a focus on thinkpads
2021-03-07T21:56:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> first part that's being made is an expresscard M.2 bay
2021-03-07T21:56:56 #kisslinux <acheam> ian actual physical store?
2021-03-07T21:57:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> no
2021-03-07T21:57:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://thinkmods.store/collections/all-mods-1/products/expresscard-to-nvme-adapter
2021-03-07T21:57:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> this is the first product being made rn
2021-03-07T21:57:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> once it's available and been reviewed I'll likely get one
2021-03-07T21:57:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's not like there's anything better to stick in my laptop's CF34 slot
2021-03-07T21:57:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> EC
2021-03-07T21:58:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> why am I still thinking compact flash
2021-03-07T21:58:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> god
2021-03-07T21:58:13 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Meh I can't get myself thinkpad for cheap. Can't order from Ebay directly and won't be paying for redirection service and local craigslist is crap. They sell thinkpads saying its legendary and raising price like its a new laptop
2021-03-07T21:58:17 #kisslinux <acheam> going back to the QMK talk earlier, but I got my Boba U4's in today
2021-03-07T21:58:29 #kisslinux <acheam> 10/10 switch
2021-03-07T21:58:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> old thinkpads are starting to get to meme prices
2021-03-07T21:58:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> get a toughbook
2021-03-07T21:58:51 #kisslinux <acheam> because evryone keeps reccomending them
2021-03-07T21:59:02 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm like be quiet! Don't let our secret be exposed!
2021-03-07T21:59:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> as usual I blame redditors
2021-03-07T21:59:15 #kisslinux <acheam> inded
2021-03-07T21:59:17 #kisslinux <acheam> indeed
2021-03-07T21:59:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> acheam, https://github.com/sabotage-linux/sabotage/pull/649/files
2021-03-07T21:59:27 #kisslinux <acheam> also, IT depts who "recycle" old computers
2021-03-07T21:59:42 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Nah no one knows about reddit where I am because no one speaks english
2021-03-07T21:59:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> small blessings
2021-03-07T22:00:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> god I hate reddit
2021-03-07T22:01:23 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Ooh boba is cool. I want 40% ortho that is ergodox ez copy but board is opensource. Its called Shark
2021-03-07T22:01:34 #kisslinux <acheam> sh4rm4^bnc: ah, I must have missed that between the double level of GH forks
2021-03-07T22:01:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> buckling springs>everything
2021-03-07T22:02:05 #kisslinux <acheam> buckling springs are nice
2021-03-07T22:02:12 #kisslinux <acheam> my unicomp broke when I moved though
2021-03-07T22:02:16 #kisslinux <acheam> it needs to be bolt modded
2021-03-07T22:02:52 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Unicomp is awesome because of trackpoint. I wonder why there's literally no keebs with it
2021-03-07T22:03:29 #kisslinux <acheam> mine doesn't have a trackpoint but it does have a trackball
2021-03-07T22:03:37 #kisslinux <acheam> my new keyboard that i'm building has a trackpoint though!
2021-03-07T22:04:15 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> There's only this Yoda stuff that I heard of with trackpoint
2021-03-07T22:04:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> i just use an old IBM 122
2021-03-07T22:04:30 #kisslinux <acheam> mines a custom built
2021-03-07T22:04:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> and a trackball of equal vintage
2021-03-07T22:04:43 #kisslinux <acheam> and the Tex (yoda)'s are hyper expensive
2021-03-07T22:04:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> custom keebs are cool except for the fact that there are no 120% models
2021-03-07T22:04:57 #kisslinux * acheam is building a 40%
2021-03-07T22:05:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I'm not autistic enough to design my own case and PCB for a keyboard
2021-03-07T22:05:28 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah but you can buy it from malaysia or something like that much cheaper
2021-03-07T22:05:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> mini keyboards are cringe btw
2021-03-07T22:05:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've looked for XL PCBs and stuff
2021-03-07T22:05:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> there are none
2021-03-07T22:05:42 #kisslinux <acheam> neither am I, i'm building the case off of the Atreus keyboard, and handwiring it
2021-03-07T22:05:53 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Nah they very productive. I want 40% board
2021-03-07T22:05:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> meh
2021-03-07T22:06:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'll probably mod my model M
2021-03-07T22:06:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> gotta retrobrite it, stick it through the dish washer, bolt mod it, and after that...
2021-03-07T22:06:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> maybe give it a nice rubberized coating
2021-03-07T22:06:31 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> make your own wooden keyboard!
2021-03-07T22:06:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> no way
2021-03-07T22:06:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm perfectly happy with my M
2021-03-07T22:07:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> only thing that would be better would be an F
2021-03-07T22:07:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> but those go for thousands
2021-03-07T22:07:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm at the point where I actually can't use non-buckling keyboards... all of them are too light
2021-03-07T22:07:58 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> You want original one? Why not just unicomp then?
2021-03-07T22:08:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> i have both
2021-03-07T22:08:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I don't like the terminal boards unicomp makes
2021-03-07T22:08:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> because they screw you over with the onboard controller
2021-03-07T22:08:45 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I wonder if you feel the difference between them in quality and stuff
2021-03-07T22:08:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> you do
2021-03-07T22:08:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> one hundred percent
2021-03-07T22:09:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> unicomp boards tend to have small discolorations and other manufacturing defects, although they're just cosmetic
2021-03-07T22:09:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> the big thing is that they use much thinner metal backplates
2021-03-07T22:09:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> and more flexible plastic
2021-03-07T22:09:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> so they can be a little creakier
2021-03-07T22:09:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> the springs on them are also a higher weighting
2021-03-07T22:10:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> due to them being, you know, not almost half a century old
2021-03-07T22:10:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> tl;dr good keyboards but they have caveats
2021-03-07T22:10:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> 7/10 wouldn't buy again
2021-03-07T22:11:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> but if you want to get a buckling board they're still good
2021-03-07T22:15:50 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I want to try buckling spring but I also hate staggered layout because I'm dvorak user. So I guess for now 40% ortholinear is my only choice
2021-03-07T22:16:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> wth is a 40% board...
2021-03-07T22:16:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> doesn't have numpad, navblock, utility block, or function block
2021-03-07T22:17:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> only alphanumerics
2021-03-07T22:17:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> oh GOD
2021-03-07T22:17:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> I hate that!
2021-03-07T22:17:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> wtf
2021-03-07T22:17:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> "minimal" keyboards are dumb
2021-03-07T22:17:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> this is almost as bad as the keyboard they put in those ancient EEE PCs
2021-03-07T22:17:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> the only reasonable concession to make is making the numpad removable
2021-03-07T22:17:59 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Nah its very productive since hands doesn't roll over board
2021-03-07T22:18:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> because I understand that some people don't want to develop ambidexterity purely to use their mouse with their left hand
2021-03-07T22:18:24 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Vim used with the same mindset tho
2021-03-07T22:18:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> vim is cringe
2021-03-07T22:18:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> real chads use ed
2021-03-07T22:18:51 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Nah I use kilo
2021-03-07T22:19:01 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> No deps 1k loc and written in C
2021-03-07T22:19:42 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> nxghtmvrx, link?
2021-03-07T22:19:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...eh.
2021-03-07T22:19:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://github.com/antirez/kilo
2021-03-07T22:20:04 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah that one
2021-03-07T22:20:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> antirez of readline fame
2021-03-07T22:20:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> or whatever his replacement is called
2021-03-07T22:20:22 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> The legend for some
2021-03-07T22:21:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://ytprivate.com/watch?v=GusN5EcrlCU
2021-03-07T22:21:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> ad nauseam time
2021-03-07T22:22:32 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> nice, should be easy to mod to support a couple nano keyboard shortcuts
2021-03-07T22:25:10 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Don't forget to add clear screen at exit. Stock version doesn't do it
2021-03-07T22:28:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> "Kilo does not depend on any library (not even curses)" you sonofabitch, I'm in
2021-03-07T22:28:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> for a screen editor that's admittedly superior to tine
2021-03-07T22:28:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> it still depends on curses
2021-03-07T22:30:28 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Lmao yeah. I love minimal stuff so much so kilo was a perfect fit
2021-03-07T22:30:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> so I'm not sure if I'm doing this wrong but like
2021-03-07T22:30:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> is reading an encyclopaedia to learn about new concepts just... the wrong way to go about it
2021-03-07T22:31:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> totally unrelated, sorry, but this is something that I've been thinking about lately and it kinda bugs me
2021-03-07T22:32:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> depends on the topic tbh
2021-03-07T22:32:22 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Not really but be careful since those who contribute to wikipedia mostly journalists which means they manipulate information the way they want you to make an opinion about it
2021-03-07T22:32:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> trust me I know about information manipulation
2021-03-07T22:32:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> but like, for example
2021-03-07T22:32:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> right now I'm reading about scientific notation
2021-03-07T22:33:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I can't really understand some of the more advanced vocabulary used, just because... well, I don't know about that
2021-03-07T22:33:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> so ultimately I have to spend hours reading all these unrelated pages to what I originally wanted, only to walk away not knowing much more useful information
2021-03-07T22:33:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> and it's kind of frustrating.
2021-03-07T22:33:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> I feel like that's the name of the game tho
2021-03-07T22:33:57 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Why not just search this topic in some other place? One of the first results would probably be simle ones
2021-03-07T22:34:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> like I don't need to know that ALGOL60 uses specialized syntax to denote scientific notation
2021-03-07T22:34:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> or that Sharp's Pocket PCs had special facilities to handle it
2021-03-07T22:34:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> i want to learn how to parse numbers written in that notation and what it is. not all this other garbage
2021-03-07T22:35:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> and sure, there are other websites, but a lot of them are so poorly written that it's just as awful reading through them as wikipedia
2021-03-07T22:35:17 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Well I suggest to use seach engine or youtube
2021-03-07T22:36:15 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Freedom of information means that garbage is everywhere
2021-03-07T22:36:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> :|
2021-03-07T22:36:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> I mean what do you really need to know about scientific notation?
2021-03-07T22:36:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> How to parse it.
2021-03-07T22:39:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> 1.6*10^4 = 1.6 * 10 * 10 * 10 *10 = 16 * 10 * 10 * 10 = ... = 16000
2021-03-07T22:39:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> ?
2021-03-07T22:39:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> or like, literal parsing with some utility
2021-03-07T22:40:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> No, just reading it. XCalc presents it in a... hrm. Less than useable manner
2021-03-07T22:40:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> really?? how does it do it
2021-03-07T22:40:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> does it use E instead of *
2021-03-07T22:40:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah
2021-03-07T22:40:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmfao
2021-03-07T22:41:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> E+??????
2021-03-07T22:41:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> so 1.6E4 == 1.6*10^4
2021-03-07T22:41:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah
2021-03-07T22:41:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm not used to seeing that so it threw me off
2021-03-07T22:41:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> that's the scientist's scientific notation
2021-03-07T22:41:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> no bully
2021-03-07T22:41:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm still learning ;w;
2021-03-07T22:41:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol nothing wrong with not knowing this strange way to write numbers XD  it's syntactically obtuse smh
2021-03-07T22:42:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd unironically rather just use hex
2021-03-07T22:42:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> because I'm more used to it
2021-03-07T22:42:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> but again it's a matter of getting over that discomfort
2021-03-07T22:44:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> base 12 is the way
2021-03-07T22:44:37 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-03-07T22:45:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> but yeah this is what I meant earlier with access to quality learning materials being a problem
2021-03-07T22:45:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> you've got two ends of the extreme
2021-03-07T22:45:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> reference materials for people who already know what they're doing on one end
2021-03-07T22:45:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> and youtube tutorials made by some dude from india on the other
2021-03-07T22:46:36 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Ah pajeet tutorials
2021-03-07T22:46:42 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Luke Smith favorite thing
2021-03-07T22:48:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> figuring out how to learn is the biggest hurdle for learning :X
2021-03-07T22:49:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> https://github.com/antirez/kilo/network
2021-03-07T22:49:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> everyone and his dog is customizing the editor
2021-03-07T22:50:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> a good example of what irks me is when I was in high school, I would always ask the mathematics instructors how to define an operation
2021-03-07T22:50:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> say, addition
2021-03-07T22:50:28 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah there's a few forks that's more of a rewrites
2021-03-07T22:50:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> and they would look at me like I was either an idiot or in a mental institution
2021-03-07T22:50:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> before saying "well you just add two numbers together" and it's like, sure
2021-03-07T22:50:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> you would really enjoy a linear algebra course that covers field theory
2021-03-07T22:50:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> but what's the fundamental principle of that
2021-03-07T22:51:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> and the answer I was looking for was, of all places, in SICP
2021-03-07T22:51:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> that being peano arithmetic
2021-03-07T22:51:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> beat me to it
2021-03-07T22:51:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> tl;dr addition is just a rule. go look up quadition for some fun
2021-03-07T22:51:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> and that's the sort of stuff I not only want to know, but that I *need* to
2021-03-07T22:51:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> I can't use a tool confidently if I don't know how it works
2021-03-07T22:51:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> I don't know *why* I'm that way, but I am
2021-03-07T22:52:20 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> There also was a tutorial how to write kilo in C from scratch explaining every little bit of what does what
2021-03-07T22:53:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> interesting
2021-03-07T22:53:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> I think I've actually heard of said tutorial
2021-03-07T22:53:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> Never bothered to look into it though
2021-03-07T22:53:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> probably should
2021-03-07T22:53:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> there's a billion things on my list already though...
2021-03-07T22:54:21 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> didnt you wanna learn C anyway
2021-03-07T22:54:27 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Here it is https://viewsourcecode.org/snaptoken/kilo/index.html
2021-03-07T22:54:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> C and LISP and FORTRAN and BASIC and-
2021-03-07T22:54:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-03-07T22:54:45 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> doh, those idiots that rewrite beautiful C code in fugly C++...
2021-03-07T22:54:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> there's a billion things I want to learn but I haven't got the time or energy to do so
2021-03-07T22:54:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> ironically, because of college
2021-03-07T22:55:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's so frustrating
2021-03-07T22:55:44 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Well it depends on you what's your priority
2021-03-07T22:56:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> and when I complain about it people are just like "well maybe you shouldn't be so lazy" and it's like... if I don't do well in college, I lose my academic sponsorship
2021-03-07T22:56:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> and get kicked out of my place, and have to move back into a shelter
2021-03-07T22:56:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> blech
2021-03-07T22:56:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't want to be too whiny about it but still
2021-03-07T22:56:43 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Consider changing sleep pattern maybe
2021-03-07T22:56:55 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> There was workman and others
2021-03-07T22:57:04 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I'm trying workman sleep right now
2021-03-07T22:57:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't think that'll fix my situation
2021-03-07T22:57:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> but thanks
2021-03-07T22:57:40 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> whats a workman sleep
2021-03-07T22:58:21 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> school sucks, nothing you can do about it
2021-03-07T22:58:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it doesn't *have* to suck
2021-03-07T22:58:31 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> You have 3.5 hours of night sleep and three 20min naps split troughout the day
2021-03-07T22:58:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> there are so many better ways of spending my time
2021-03-07T22:58:45 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Productivity thing
2021-03-07T22:58:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> but instead I'm forced by my circumstances to sit through some normie drawing in MS Paint over a discord call
2021-03-07T22:59:02 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you're wasting your time to learn 80% lies and propaganda, and 20% useless stuff
2021-03-07T22:59:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> every goddamn day
2021-03-07T22:59:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> I *know*
2021-03-07T22:59:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> and it's awful
2021-03-07T22:59:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> uberman schedule. four twenty minute naps every 24 hours. do it coward
2021-03-07T22:59:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I can't just drop out
2021-03-07T22:59:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> because if I drop out I lose everything
2021-03-07T22:59:55 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I don't think its possible tbh. Struggling with workman as its hard to get used to it
2021-03-07T23:00:54 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> sounds like bs tbh
2021-03-07T23:01:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it could maybe work if you're a meditation master
2021-03-07T23:01:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> I have to agree
2021-03-07T23:01:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> it doesn't sound feasible because afaik the most important part of sleep is the amount of time you spend in REM sleep or whatever
2021-03-07T23:01:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> which takes a while for your body to get into
2021-03-07T23:01:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> so you can't just dip in and out all day
2021-03-07T23:02:20 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Its real and there are those who do it. But I can't get used to just go and sleep for 20m in the middle of tha day
2021-03-07T23:02:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, you can't just one two three sleep
2021-03-07T23:02:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> passing out on command would be a really lame superpower
2021-03-07T23:03:24 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Yeah I add +15m to that since average time spent before sleep is ~14m
2021-03-07T23:03:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> nobody has tested uberman for longer than six months iirc
2021-03-07T23:04:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> i did everyman for a long while in college
2021-03-07T23:04:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't bother with fad stuff
2021-03-07T23:04:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> not a fad!
2021-03-07T23:04:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> min-max your life fam
2021-03-07T23:04:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> i just try to sleep for eight hours in every 24h cycle
2021-03-07T23:04:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> no more, no less
2021-03-07T23:04:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> the effects of sleep are not well known xD do it for science
2021-03-07T23:04:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> there are two types of the people in the world
2021-03-07T23:05:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> those who are stupid enough to do things "for science", and the people who study the first group
2021-03-07T23:05:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> speaking of stupid
2021-03-07T23:05:42 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I don't care much about sleep tbh. I have only so much time in my life to spend 1/3 doing nothing so instead I yolo and try everything simultaneously
2021-03-07T23:05:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> i conceded and caddy is now in use on the git mirror :v
2021-03-07T23:06:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> rest and recreation are important for your long-term productivity
2021-03-07T23:06:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> nobody can just tough everything in life out
2021-03-07T23:06:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> exhaustion and low morale are huge problems. controversial statements only in #kisslinux
2021-03-07T23:07:16 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Well I'm not doing stupid many things so I am not saying that I want to try everything
2021-03-07T23:07:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> apply the unix philosophy to your life. do one thing and do it well.
2021-03-07T23:07:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> *become* the coreutil
2021-03-07T23:08:29 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> also it needs to be dark when sleeping so your brain produces melatonin
2021-03-07T23:08:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> I do sleep very well. Roughly twenty hours a day
2021-03-07T23:09:01 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> kewl
2021-03-07T23:09:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah blue light really fucks with common brain functionsn
2021-03-07T23:09:19 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> also microwaves
2021-03-07T23:10:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> goodness
2021-03-07T23:10:32 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> fuck microwaves
2021-03-07T23:10:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> modern comforts are ruining us
2021-03-07T23:10:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> sleeping in a microwave is a problem, i agree
2021-03-07T23:10:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> f
2021-03-07T23:10:51 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Modern comforts muh
2021-03-07T23:10:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> fr though I didn't get a microwave or anything when I moved out
2021-03-07T23:10:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> "how to get baked" w a i t
2021-03-07T23:11:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> they just seem redundant
2021-03-07T23:11:02 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I sleep on the floor because I want to
2021-03-07T23:11:05 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> or having your smartphone next to your head, i guess
2021-03-07T23:11:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> actually the longterm effects of smartphone use are unknown
2021-03-07T23:11:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> so
2021-03-07T23:11:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> meh
2021-03-07T23:11:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> i sleep with my head directly on my smartphone to ensure the cancer gets to me before i turn 40
2021-03-07T23:11:37 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> :>
2021-03-07T23:11:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's not anywhere close to ionizing so we're good. probably.
2021-03-07T23:11:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> smartphone on one side, microwave on the other
2021-03-07T23:11:58 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I consider to shot myself like Cobain so why bother with cancer
2021-03-07T23:12:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'll be damned to see 50
2021-03-07T23:12:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> the real way to win life is to just off yourself once you reach thirty because of the crippling depression and anxiety you feel every day
2021-03-07T23:12:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> :^)
2021-03-07T23:12:44 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> ^
2021-03-07T23:12:53 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Depression is bs
2021-03-07T23:13:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> howso
2021-03-07T23:13:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> i feel directly and personally attacked
2021-03-07T23:13:32 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> If you think you have depression consider changing your life
2021-03-07T23:13:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> *cries in 28 year old*
2021-03-07T23:13:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> the problem is when you can't change your life
2021-03-07T23:13:50 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Then off
2021-03-07T23:14:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> man if I could have afforded a rope when I was younger I probably would have
2021-03-07T23:14:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> but, sadly, I was too poor
2021-03-07T23:14:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> the damn capitalist wins again
2021-03-07T23:14:21 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> That's what I would've done tho not suggesting anything
2021-03-07T23:15:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> luxury gay space suicide now
2021-03-07T23:15:46 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Well my apartment is high enough for me to quit out of the window if I would feel like I have depression/anxiety
2021-03-07T23:16:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> should probably not do that.
2021-03-07T23:18:56 #kisslinux <acheam> yes, dilyn, you have come to the light side!
2021-03-07T23:19:43 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Well if I would consider my neighbours that probably be the worst thing. But If  I do it for myself then who cares what will be after. The other thing that trees around could stop me from freefalling lol
2021-03-07T23:20:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> eh...
2021-03-07T23:35:50 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> Is there a way to change github name without migrating it two times just because it was stupid uppercase and I want it lowercase?
2021-03-07T23:37:06 #kisslinux <acheam> what do you mean migrating it two times?
2021-03-07T23:37:52 #kisslinux <nxghtmvrx> I want to change my name but it won't allow me because its the same name but uppercase. So I need to set different one first
2021-03-07T23:38:12 #kisslinux <acheam> ah yeah idk