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[2021-05-20T00:14:04Z] <phoebos> test
[2021-05-20T00:20:01Z] <acheam> test passed!
[2021-05-20T00:20:36Z] claudia02 quit: Quit: zzz
[2021-05-20T00:20:41Z] <phoebos> https://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~phoebos/logs/
[2021-05-20T00:21:25Z] <acheam> sick
[2021-05-20T00:22:28Z] ocean_moist joined
[2021-05-20T00:23:43Z] <ocean_moist> i can see kiss linux in my boot menu. but i click it and the screen goes black for a like 1/2 second then i still see boot options. I am using EXTLINUX and hummingbird init. Would this issue be in my syslinux.cfg? can you guys point me in the right direction
[2021-05-20T00:25:04Z] <riteo> phoebos: cool
[2021-05-20T00:26:07Z] <ocean_moist> ok but where is the issue
[2021-05-20T00:26:14Z] <ocean_moist> like what "layer"
[2021-05-20T00:26:17Z] <riteo> sorry I don't know
[2021-05-20T00:26:25Z] <riteo> I've never used those things
[2021-05-20T00:28:48Z] <noocsharp> im not familiar with extlinux, but if control was passed off to linux, then it shouldn't end up back in the boot menu
[2021-05-20T00:28:55Z] <riteo> brb
[2021-05-20T00:29:05Z] <ocean_moist> i think I see the issue
[2021-05-20T00:29:12Z] riteo quit: Quit: epic distro upgrade moment
[2021-05-20T00:29:32Z] dontmindmee joined
[2021-05-20T00:29:47Z] <phoebos> ok my lil logger is in an infinite loop now
[2021-05-20T00:30:00Z] <phoebos> hopefully it's ok
[2021-05-20T00:30:26Z] <phoebos> hosting it on a tilde and not through a bouncer isn't a very good idea but im cheeeappp
[2021-05-20T00:31:27Z] riteo joined
[2021-05-20T00:31:27Z] <riteo> here I am again
[2021-05-20T00:31:37Z] <phoebos> that was quick riteo 
[2021-05-20T00:31:41Z] <phoebos> what did you do
[2021-05-20T00:31:53Z] <riteo> I rebooted my pc, I had upgraded some packages
[2021-05-20T00:32:05Z] <riteo> root on SSD masterrace
[2021-05-20T00:32:51Z] <ocean_moist> i do not see the issue
[2021-05-20T00:33:05Z] <ocean_moist> wtf is happening. it literally looks fine
[2021-05-20T00:35:13Z] ocean_moist quit: Quit: https://mibbit.com Online IRC Client
[2021-05-20T00:37:23Z] necromansy joined
[2021-05-20T00:37:32Z] <necromansy> sooo i caught up
[2021-05-20T00:37:39Z] <necromansy> damn thing happened while i was sleeping
[2021-05-20T00:38:16Z] <riteo> hi necromansy
[2021-05-20T00:38:19Z] <phoebos> hei
[2021-05-20T00:38:20Z] <necromansy> heyo
[2021-05-20T00:38:26Z] <phoebos> what TZ are you in?
[2021-05-20T00:38:30Z] <necromansy> AEST
[2021-05-20T00:39:13Z] <phoebos> ooh you're a long way away from me :)
[2021-05-20T00:40:26Z] <necromansy> i think im the furthest east unless we got some kiwis or real eastern ruskies
[2021-05-20T00:40:53Z] <acheam> that's what you get for being a down underer
[2021-05-20T00:41:00Z] <necromansy> smh
[2021-05-20T00:41:10Z] <acheam> although it all happened while I was asleep as well, and i'm like 18hrs west of you
[2021-05-20T00:41:17Z] <acheam> so you must have been awake when it first got started
[2021-05-20T00:41:35Z] <necromansy> yeah probably, i was mostly dicking around on YT until midnight so
[2021-05-20T00:42:25Z] <acheam> you probably woke up in a better point than I did, because I woke up to everyone asking in every channel "freenode is fucked, so are we moving to libera?" and then vicious discussion 
[2021-05-20T00:42:31Z] <acheam> in 15 channels, all at once
[2021-05-20T00:42:40Z] <acheam> that's subdued a bit now from what I can tell
[2021-05-20T00:43:13Z] <necromansy> i was out of irc coz i was dicking around with WM's, so when i woke up i tried logging on to be met with "invite only"
[2021-05-20T00:43:22Z] <necromansy> my first thought was "w-what??"
[2021-05-20T00:45:32Z] <phoebos> huh i can get into the old channel now
[2021-05-20T00:49:36Z] <riteo> weird
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[2021-05-20T01:14:38Z] <zr> phoebos: no you can't? lol
[2021-05-20T01:14:38Z] phoebos quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[2021-05-20T01:14:42Z] <zr> o_o
[2021-05-20T01:16:17Z] phoebos joined
[2021-05-20T01:16:33Z] <phoebos> zr: i could then, can't now
[2021-05-20T01:16:57Z] <phoebos> (my shiny logs saved me just now)
[2021-05-20T01:17:15Z] <zr> Ah
[2021-05-20T01:17:27Z] <zr> I asked that question and you instantly quit, that was weird
[2021-05-20T01:17:33Z] <phoebos> sorry lol
[2021-05-20T01:17:51Z] <phoebos> my client hates yo^H^H^H i have bad internet
[2021-05-20T01:18:34Z] <zr> lol no need to apologize
[2021-05-20T01:21:17Z] zenomat_ joined
[2021-05-20T01:23:37Z] <acheam> dumb question but whats ^H the character for?
[2021-05-20T01:24:06Z] <acheam> because the way phoebos wrote it if I understand correctly it would say
[2021-05-20T01:24:15Z] <acheam> "my client hates i have bad internet"
[2021-05-20T01:24:41Z] zenomat quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[2021-05-20T01:25:16Z] phoebos quit: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[2021-05-20T01:25:38Z] <travankor> i think you guys forgot the "behold the power of redhat" message
[2021-05-20T01:26:59Z] <konimex> while the message is mostly "harmless", won't it be unnecessary noise?
[2021-05-20T01:27:08Z] <acheam> we don't have chanserv yet
[2021-05-20T01:27:18Z] phoebos joined
[2021-05-20T01:27:23Z] <acheam> we're waiting until the staff has a little bit more time to actually register this channel
[2021-05-20T01:29:16Z] <travankor> wait this channel isn't registered?
[2021-05-20T01:29:25Z] <acheam> hmm i wonder if teddit does some backend caching or something because it still shows freenode.net in the sidebar
[2021-05-20T01:29:27Z] <acheam> travankor: shhhhh
[2021-05-20T01:29:56Z] <travankor> acheam: why didn't you do /msg ChanServ register #kisslinux
[2021-05-20T01:30:06Z] <travankor> or whoever was first in here
[2021-05-20T01:30:10Z] <acheam> zr: is the guy to ask about this
[2021-05-20T01:30:20Z] <acheam> maybe the channel is registered but the group isn't?
[2021-05-20T01:30:25Z] <konimex> kisslinux is already registered, it's not under a project namespace though
[2021-05-20T01:30:33Z] <acheam> thanks konimex 
[2021-05-20T01:30:37Z] <travankor> it says it is registered
[2021-05-20T01:30:42Z] <acheam> ye it is
[2021-05-20T01:30:51Z] <travankor> under kiedtl and dilyn
[2021-05-20T01:31:06Z] <acheam> konimex: RE noise: yes.
[2021-05-20T01:31:51Z] <phoebos> acheam: i didn't do enough backspaces
[2021-05-20T01:31:56Z] noocsharp joined
[2021-05-20T01:31:59Z] <phoebos> ideally ^H represented a strikethrough
[2021-05-20T01:32:07Z] <acheam> phoebos: you might appreciate ^W
[2021-05-20T01:32:13Z] <phoebos> oop
[2021-05-20T01:33:25Z] <phoebos> is that what i meant
[2021-05-20T01:34:14Z] <phoebos> oh i see that deletes back a word
[2021-05-20T01:34:19Z] <phoebos> all these fancy emacs tings
[2021-05-20T01:45:35Z] phoebos quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[2021-05-20T01:45:59Z] MidFavila joined
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[2021-05-20T01:52:26Z] <acheam> oi thats in vim
[2021-05-20T01:52:34Z] <MidFavila> >someone is using vim
[2021-05-20T01:52:36Z] <acheam> maybe vi too
[2021-05-20T01:52:41Z] <MidFavila> omae wa mou
[2021-05-20T01:52:44Z] <acheam> excuse me
[2021-05-20T01:52:53Z] <acheam> I use the extensible vim layer
[2021-05-20T01:52:57Z] <MidFavila> idec
[2021-05-20T01:53:06Z] <MidFavila> the editor of the beast shall not be tolerated in my presence
[2021-05-20T01:53:32Z] <acheam> okay mIdFaViLa
[2021-05-20T01:53:36Z] <necromansy> y'know these work in shell right lads/
[2021-05-20T01:53:50Z] <acheam> thats where I use it most lol
[2021-05-20T01:54:01Z] <necromansy> k just checking
[2021-05-20T01:54:06Z] <MidFavila> i don't even know what it is
[2021-05-20T01:54:06Z] <necromansy> lmao
[2021-05-20T01:54:07Z] <MidFavila> all I know
[2021-05-20T01:54:10Z] <MidFavila> is that vi tribe bad
[2021-05-20T01:54:27Z] <necromansy> okay tiny
[2021-05-20T01:54:54Z] <necromansy> speaking of, im finding acme comfy
[2021-05-20T01:55:10Z] <MidFavila> acme is v comfy
[2021-05-20T01:55:16Z] <MidFavila> i need to tinker with it more
[2021-05-20T01:55:40Z] <necromansy> im using acme2k, its pretty bulk standard with a couple of sane defaults
[2021-05-20T01:55:41Z] <necromansy> like uh
[2021-05-20T01:55:55Z] <necromansy> auto indent and non-sloppy focus
[2021-05-20T01:56:01Z] <MidFavila> fuck you
[2021-05-20T01:56:04Z] <MidFavila> sloppy focus is based
[2021-05-20T01:56:37Z] <necromansy> sorry i dont like accidentally knocking my mouse and ending up typing in another window 3 km away
[2021-05-20T01:56:46Z] <MidFavila> imagine using a mouse
[2021-05-20T01:56:47Z] <MidFavila> lmao
[2021-05-20T01:56:53Z] <necromansy> >acme
[2021-05-20T01:56:55Z] <necromansy> >no mouse
[2021-05-20T01:57:00Z] <MidFavila> >ignoring the existence of trackballs
[2021-05-20T01:57:07Z] <MidFavila> >literally the best pointing device
[2021-05-20T01:57:18Z] <necromansy> >acme
[2021-05-20T01:57:20Z] <necromansy> >no mouse
[2021-05-20T01:57:24Z] <MidFavila> >trackball
[2021-05-20T01:57:28Z] <necromansy> trackballs for that just seems painful
[2021-05-20T01:57:46Z] <MidFavila> the only time I can tolerate using a mouse is for games
[2021-05-20T01:58:05Z] <necromansy> tbf tho ive never use a trackball so i might just be ignorant
[2021-05-20T01:58:13Z] <MidFavila> oh dude
[2021-05-20T01:58:16Z] <MidFavila> you are so missing out
[2021-05-20T01:58:29Z] <MidFavila> a good trackball makes a world of difference
[2021-05-20T01:58:32Z] <MidFavila> not even meming 
[2021-05-20T01:58:46Z] <necromansy> when i am back on getting the $ ill check getting one out
[2021-05-20T01:58:51Z] <MidFavila> and you can use them with either hand, too
[2021-05-20T01:58:58Z] <MidFavila> so you can position your keyboard as you please
[2021-05-20T01:59:57Z] <MidFavila> oh, fvwm is on libera now, too
[2021-05-20T02:00:00Z] <MidFavila> very based, thomas
[2021-05-20T02:00:12Z] <necromansy> i wonder who will stick around
[2021-05-20T02:01:24Z] <MidFavila> man
[2021-05-20T02:01:29Z] <MidFavila> why are there no good GTK icon themes
[2021-05-20T02:21:31Z] <acheam> adwaita
[2021-05-20T02:21:53Z] <MidFavila> notice the fact that I said good, acheam
[2021-05-20T02:22:16Z] <acheam> notice the fact that I said adwaita, midfavila
[2021-05-20T02:22:29Z] <acheam> adwaita is actually pretty nice thougu
[2021-05-20T02:22:34Z] <acheam> its got a classic feel to it
[2021-05-20T02:22:49Z] <MidFavila> adwaita is nothing like a classic icon set
[2021-05-20T02:22:57Z] <MidFavila> it's definitely boring though
[2021-05-20T02:41:49Z] <acheam> make your own
[2021-05-20T02:41:53Z] <acheam> i'd use midicons
[2021-05-20T02:42:35Z] <riteo> midfavicons
[2021-05-20T02:42:47Z] <acheam> lol
[2021-05-20T02:43:48Z] <MidFavila> i mean
[2021-05-20T02:44:01Z] <MidFavila> my webdev friend said he'd teach me graphical design
[2021-05-20T02:44:05Z] <MidFavila> so...
[2021-05-20T02:44:18Z] <acheam> lol you'd trust a webdev to leern design from?
[2021-05-20T02:44:21Z] <riteo> isn't modern graphical design super abstract flat stuff?
[2021-05-20T02:44:25Z] <acheam> have you *seen* the web
[2021-05-20T02:44:29Z] <riteo> expecially web graphics
[2021-05-20T02:44:33Z] <MidFavila> yes, but the principles of art apply regardless.
[2021-05-20T02:44:42Z] <acheam> just kiss b inkscape and get drawin
[2021-05-20T02:44:47Z] <riteo> agreed
[2021-05-20T02:44:47Z] <MidFavila> uh, no.
[2021-05-20T02:45:02Z] <MidFavila> if I was going to make an icon set it would be with mtpaint or a similar pixel editor.
[2021-05-20T02:45:11Z] <riteo> right
[2021-05-20T02:45:17Z] <acheam> write .bmp files in vim
[2021-05-20T02:45:22Z] <riteo> even better
[2021-05-20T02:45:22Z] <acheam> s/vim/acme/g
[2021-05-20T02:45:38Z] <MidFavila> i don't think gtk can render BMP, nor XPM
[2021-05-20T02:45:50Z] <riteo> fork it
[2021-05-20T02:46:01Z] <riteo> MidGTK
[2021-05-20T02:46:14Z] <MidFavila> if I'm going to go through the effort of forking a toolkit, I'd really rather just write my own
[2021-05-20T02:46:18Z] <acheam> ICCP or whatev that thing you love so much is
[2021-05-20T02:46:32Z] <riteo> MidFavila: Right
[2021-05-20T02:46:57Z] <MidFavila> you mean the ICCCM, acheam?
[2021-05-20T02:47:03Z] <acheam> yes
[2021-05-20T02:47:13Z] <riteo> oh it's the best thing ever
[2021-05-20T02:47:19Z] <riteo> it's so simple and intuitive to implement
[2021-05-20T02:47:38Z] <MidFavila> the ICCCM is like the bare minimum for a usable toolkit so I'd have to do that anyway
[2021-05-20T02:47:44Z] * MidFavila shrugs
[2021-05-20T02:47:56Z] <riteo> ICCCM is hell AFAIK
[2021-05-20T02:48:49Z] <riteo> oh well, thinking about it you don't have to build a WM, so it might actually be way easier than I thought
[2021-05-20T02:49:07Z] <MidFavila> the ICCCM is implemented in toolkits.
[2021-05-20T02:49:12Z] <MidFavila> ...also window managers.
[2021-05-20T02:49:32Z] <riteo> oh
[2021-05-20T02:49:45Z] <MidFavila> i dunno though
[2021-05-20T02:50:03Z] <MidFavila> i feel like solely due to the web it's not reasonable to use a toolkit that isn't GTK or Qt
[2021-05-20T02:50:13Z] <riteo> godot engine masterrace
[2021-05-20T02:50:44Z] <riteo> why though? Is is for themability?
[2021-05-20T02:51:03Z] <MidFavila> if I was going to write a toolkit, it would be for efficiency
[2021-05-20T02:51:27Z] <MidFavila> like, sure, you would have themes as an option
[2021-05-20T02:51:31Z] <MidFavila> i like how Xaw handles that
[2021-05-20T02:51:32Z] <riteo> those are both hell in different regards. It'd be a very big beast to kill, but I do think that it is possible to have a simple, lightweight toolkit that isn't whatever GTK is
[2021-05-20T02:51:42Z] <MidFavila> oh, of course it is
[2021-05-20T02:51:46Z] <MidFavila> fltk exists and is fantastic
[2021-05-20T02:51:54Z] <riteo> oh I've never heard of it
[2021-05-20T02:52:12Z] <MidFavila> it's got an interesting history
[2021-05-20T02:52:19Z] <MidFavila> derived from the IRIX Tk
[2021-05-20T02:52:29Z] <MidFavila> not to be confused with the Tk of TCL/Tk fame
[2021-05-20T02:53:18Z] <MidFavila> FLTK is nice, except that it's C++
[2021-05-20T02:53:27Z] <MidFavila> and I'd really rather, uh, not.
[2021-05-20T02:53:44Z] <riteo> yeah, I agree
[2021-05-20T02:53:52Z] <MidFavila> like,
[2021-05-20T02:53:57Z] <MidFavila> if I eventually just sorta pick up C++
[2021-05-20T02:54:01Z] <MidFavila> then maybe
[2021-05-20T02:54:15Z] <MidFavila> but I think I'd really like to learn C first....
[2021-05-20T02:54:20Z] <riteo> yeah absolutely
[2021-05-20T02:56:55Z] <MidFavila> but also
[2021-05-20T02:57:13Z] <MidFavila> the problem of "gtk uses 20mb or something hilarious on its own" is very real
[2021-05-20T02:57:34Z] <riteo> bruh
[2021-05-20T02:57:57Z] <MidFavila> i must *conserve* the bits
[2021-05-20T02:58:06Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-05-20T02:58:40Z] <riteo> now I'm curious how much godot uses on its own
[2021-05-20T02:58:50Z] <MidFavila> considering it's a game engine 
[2021-05-20T02:58:54Z] <MidFavila> too much for what I want
[2021-05-20T02:58:55Z] <MidFavila> like,
[2021-05-20T02:58:57Z] <MidFavila> let's be clear,
[2021-05-20T02:59:11Z] <riteo> well, it's a very *very* lightweight game engine
[2021-05-20T02:59:13Z] <MidFavila> there are two... *three* reasons I don't use xaw exclusively
[2021-05-20T02:59:18Z] <riteo> and you can strip a lot of things out of it
[2021-05-20T02:59:22Z] <riteo> like, almost everything
[2021-05-20T02:59:24Z] <MidFavila> reason ichi
[2021-05-20T02:59:39Z] <MidFavila> it's literally prehistoric, and there's basically no docs for it
[2021-05-20T02:59:46Z] <MidFavila> reason ni
[2021-05-20T02:59:59Z] <MidFavila> you have to implement support for truetype fonts on a per-program basis
[2021-05-20T03:00:07Z] <MidFavila> reason san
[2021-05-20T03:00:24Z] <MidFavila> you can't replace widgets without replacing the entire xaw implementation
[2021-05-20T03:00:44Z] <riteo> yeah it's surely old and dusty
[2021-05-20T03:00:47Z] <acheam> motif fixes 2/3
[2021-05-20T03:01:09Z] <MidFavila> motif is also a massive pain to set up
[2021-05-20T03:01:17Z] <riteo> also godot in debug mode on its own uses 114 mb which is a lot but still less than electron lol
[2021-05-20T03:01:21Z] <MidFavila> but I have been considering packaging CDE for KISS
[2021-05-20T03:01:24Z] <acheam> MidFavila: how so?
[2021-05-20T03:01:37Z] <MidFavila> have you ever tried to compile motif and CDE entirely from scratch
[2021-05-20T03:01:44Z] <MidFavila> because it takes *hours* to figure it out
[2021-05-20T03:01:52Z] <MidFavila> at least if my two year old memories check out
[2021-05-20T03:02:04Z] <acheam> tbf the build system was never meant to be user facing lol
[2021-05-20T03:02:12Z] <acheam> classic propreitary software
[2021-05-20T03:02:31Z] <riteo> can't you look at other packages scripts?
[2021-05-20T03:02:36Z] <riteo> there are, right?
[2021-05-20T03:02:46Z] <MidFavila> i mean, for binary systems yeah
[2021-05-20T03:02:52Z] <MidFavila> i don't know of any source distro that packages CDE
[2021-05-20T03:02:57Z] <MidFavila>  gentoo *might*
[2021-05-20T03:03:13Z] <acheam> i'm sure the arch PKGBUILD would be helpful
[2021-05-20T03:03:19Z] <riteo> yeah
[2021-05-20T03:03:25Z] <MidFavila> i refuse to touch the AUR
[2021-05-20T03:03:29Z] <MidFavila> and pacman in general
[2021-05-20T03:03:30Z] <MidFavila> garbage system
[2021-05-20T03:03:40Z] <riteo> yes, but it'll sure have a way to compile it
[2021-05-20T03:03:45Z] <riteo> you don't have to use pacman
[2021-05-20T03:03:58Z] <MidFavila> i don't even like reading their build scripts
[2021-05-20T03:03:59Z] <MidFavila> they suck
[2021-05-20T03:04:06Z] <riteo> I can read them for you
[2021-05-20T03:04:12Z] <MidFavila> uwu~
[2021-05-20T03:04:31Z] <riteo> awa
[2021-05-20T03:05:06Z] <MidFavila> looks like portage has an ebuild for cde
[2021-05-20T03:05:16Z] <MidFavila> dunno if cde still requires a security override though
[2021-05-20T03:05:21Z] <riteo> bruh
[2021-05-20T03:05:38Z] <MidFavila> yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeah
[2021-05-20T03:05:50Z] <MidFavila> to be clear you can use motif outside of the CDE
[2021-05-20T03:06:03Z] <MidFavila> actually
[2021-05-20T03:06:04Z] <MidFavila> wait
[2021-05-20T03:06:05Z] <MidFavila> acheam
[2021-05-20T03:06:11Z] <acheam> yes hun
[2021-05-20T03:06:16Z] <MidFavila> when you said motif fixed most of those issues, was TTF one of them
[2021-05-20T03:06:21Z] <acheam> no
[2021-05-20T03:06:23Z] <MidFavila> fuck
[2021-05-20T03:06:28Z] <MidFavila> that's the main thing I give a shit about
[2021-05-20T03:06:35Z] <MidFavila> into the trash it goes
[2021-05-20T03:06:36Z] <riteo> midmotif time
[2021-05-20T03:06:40Z] <acheam> bitmap fonts aren't that bad
[2021-05-20T03:06:45Z] <MidFavila> acheam
[2021-05-20T03:06:56Z] <MidFavila> bitmap fonts are good on lowres laptop displays that are right in your face
[2021-05-20T03:07:05Z] <MidFavila> i sit a good two or three feet away from my monitors
[2021-05-20T03:07:20Z] <acheam> solution: move your monitors to 6in in front of your face
[2021-05-20T03:07:23Z] <MidFavila> reading bitmaps on my system is legitimately painful
[2021-05-20T03:07:57Z] <MidFavila> like, it causes severe eyestrain for me.
[2021-05-20T03:10:22Z] <MidFavila> is there a way to use ttfs in motif without a ton of headache?
[2021-05-20T03:17:35Z] <MidFavila> i'd really rather use GNUStep, but that's also a pain, and it's written in Object-C
[2021-05-20T03:30:38Z] <MidFavila> ...hah! Got XFM working now, too
[2021-05-20T03:33:21Z] <riteo> nice
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[2021-05-20T03:34:30Z] <riteo> oh wow I looked it up and found this: https://web.archive.org/web/20120206035057/http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag/xfm/screen.gif
[2021-05-20T03:34:43Z] <riteo> you have no idea how much I love that README icon
[2021-05-20T03:34:44Z] aarng quit: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[2021-05-20T03:34:53Z] <MidFavila> XFM is massively aesthetic
[2021-05-20T03:35:44Z] <riteo> ckk,,
[2021-05-20T03:35:50Z] <riteo> s/ckk,,/cool/g
[2021-05-20T03:36:00Z] <riteo> oh right the bot isn't there yet
[2021-05-20T03:37:00Z] aarng joined
[2021-05-20T03:37:20Z] <MidFavila> http://0x0.st/-eHl.png
[2021-05-20T03:37:46Z] <riteo> oh cool
[2021-05-20T03:37:54Z] <MidFavila> Yeah, dude!
[2021-05-20T03:38:06Z] <riteo> this really looks nice!
[2021-05-20T03:38:14Z] <MidFavila> It very much has a style to it
[2021-05-20T03:38:19Z] <MidFavila> ...it's not very usable though.
[2021-05-20T03:38:20Z] <riteo> why is emacs a sink though
[2021-05-20T03:38:31Z] <riteo> because it does everything?
[2021-05-20T03:38:31Z] <MidFavila> Because emacs includes the kitchen sink.
[2021-05-20T03:38:31Z] <MidFavila> Duh
[2021-05-20T03:38:34Z] <riteo> lmao
[2021-05-20T03:38:43Z] <noocsharp> 200998 bytes is unacceptable for the year 1990
[2021-05-20T03:38:55Z] <riteo> that's a lot of bytes
[2021-05-20T03:39:17Z] <MidFavila> this is from 2001
[2021-05-20T03:39:40Z] <riteo> wait, where do A: and C: come from?
[2021-05-20T03:39:47Z] <MidFavila> these are hardcoded
[2021-05-20T03:39:53Z] <riteo> oh
[2021-05-20T03:39:59Z] <riteo> why would you want them though
[2021-05-20T03:40:04Z] <MidFavila> because this is from 2001
[2021-05-20T03:40:12Z] <riteo> right
[2021-05-20T03:40:13Z] <MidFavila> people still used floppies and hard disks back then
[2021-05-20T03:40:16Z] <MidFavila> also
[2021-05-20T03:40:19Z] <MidFavila> just checked
[2021-05-20T03:40:23Z] <noocsharp> why does the trash have a recycling icon
[2021-05-20T03:40:26Z] <MidFavila> most of the file size is from contrib
[2021-05-20T03:40:36Z] <MidFavila> which is a buncha icons
[2021-05-20T03:40:43Z] <riteo> oh, makes sense
[2021-05-20T03:42:36Z] <MidFavila> i want to try getting other old software running again
[2021-05-20T03:42:39Z] <MidFavila> even as a learning exercise
[2021-05-20T03:42:51Z] <MidFavila> it's not actually that hard, most of the time...
[2021-05-20T03:42:59Z] <MidFavila> ...although getting it to run without errors is another problem.
[2021-05-20T03:45:18Z] <riteo> that's an interesting thing for sure
[2021-05-20T03:45:35Z] <MidFavila> ...holy fucking shit-
[2021-05-20T03:45:39Z] <riteo> what
[2021-05-20T03:45:42Z] <MidFavila> XFM is 20204 lines!
[2021-05-20T03:45:49Z] <riteo> BRUH
[2021-05-20T03:46:37Z] <MidFavila> now I'm scared to see how many a modern file manager is....
[2021-05-20T03:48:13Z] <Rio6> now I wonder how many lines cd + ls + cp + mv + rm has
[2021-05-20T03:48:21Z] <MidFavila> significantly fewer
[2021-05-20T03:48:22Z] <MidFavila> but
[2021-05-20T03:48:24Z] <MidFavila> consider the following
[2021-05-20T03:48:25Z] <riteo> MidFavila: doesh fff count
[2021-05-20T03:48:34Z] <Rio6> judging by them coming from gnu, i wouldn't underestimate
[2021-05-20T03:48:39Z] <MidFavila> i can't use cd/ls/cp/mv/rm/mkdir/etc using a touchscreen
[2021-05-20T03:48:57Z] <Rio6> isn't gun's implementation of true 100 lines or smth?
[2021-05-20T03:49:01Z] <Rio6> *gnu
[2021-05-20T03:49:01Z] <MidFavila> gun
[2021-05-20T03:49:13Z] <riteo> why
[2021-05-20T03:49:19Z] <MidFavila> RMS finna roll up on Billy G and fuck his shit up
[2021-05-20T03:49:25Z] <MidFavila> bang bang
[2021-05-20T03:49:47Z] <riteo> midfavila: shfm has 425 lines of code, does that count?
[2021-05-20T03:50:01Z] <MidFavila> if it's not a graphical file manager, it doesn't count
[2021-05-20T03:50:12Z] <riteo> right
[2021-05-20T03:50:24Z] <MidFavila> sxiv is also a surprising number of lines
[2021-05-20T03:50:41Z] <MidFavila> around 3600
[2021-05-20T03:50:51Z] <MidFavila> hrm
[2021-05-20T03:50:55Z] <MidFavila> much more approachable thouch
[2021-05-20T03:50:57Z] <MidFavila> though*
[2021-05-20T03:51:08Z] <Rio6> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/true.c found it
[2021-05-20T03:51:28Z] <Rio6> only 80 lines :P
[2021-05-20T03:51:32Z] <MidFavila> i mean
[2021-05-20T03:51:51Z] <MidFavila> the problem here is that it looks like they're packing true and false into the same program
[2021-05-20T03:52:01Z] <MidFavila> which... not the stupidest thing, but...
[2021-05-20T03:52:53Z] <riteo> bruh
[2021-05-20T03:52:54Z] <Rio6> just makes me think that all their programs has these boiler plates
[2021-05-20T03:53:09Z] <MidFavila> i can't even be mad at GNU for writing bloated libs and tools
[2021-05-20T03:53:14Z] <MidFavila> because they're in a shit spot
[2021-05-20T03:53:27Z] <MidFavila> they simultaneously have to match proprietary software *and* innovate in the free software space
[2021-05-20T03:53:39Z] <MidFavila> plus they have to maintain legacy compat
[2021-05-20T03:53:41Z] <riteo> meh
[2021-05-20T03:54:17Z] <riteo> it's not like stuff like GIMP matches photoshop on a GUI level, so the only thing that they're trying to match is functionality, which shouldn't be that hard
[2021-05-20T03:54:39Z] <MidFavila> the GUI argument is so stupid
[2021-05-20T03:54:55Z] <MidFavila> the only reason people don't get GIMP's GUI is because they're used to Photoshop
[2021-05-20T03:54:58Z] <MidFavila> that's literally it
[2021-05-20T03:55:01Z] <riteo> I use GIMP
[2021-05-20T03:55:12Z] <riteo> I just find it's interface very very unintuitive
[2021-05-20T03:55:19Z] <MidFavila> i found photoshop's more confusing...
[2021-05-20T03:55:28Z] <MidFavila> same with MS Office compared to LibreOffice
[2021-05-20T03:55:30Z] <Rio6> I found krita nicer to use than gimp
[2021-05-20T03:55:39Z] <acheam> krita is more drawing focused
[2021-05-20T03:55:48Z] <acheam> which isn't my use case, personally
[2021-05-20T03:55:51Z] <riteo> oh I've never used photoshop that much, but IMO paint.net is kind on the opposite side
[2021-05-20T03:55:56Z] <MidFavila> you know what Linux needs 
[2021-05-20T03:55:57Z] <riteo> it's extremely intuitive
[2021-05-20T03:56:02Z] <MidFavila> Linux needs a clone of MS Paint
[2021-05-20T03:56:04Z] <Rio6> most of my use case can be down with imagemacick XD
[2021-05-20T03:56:11Z] <MidFavila> *literally* just a clone of MS Paint
[2021-05-20T03:56:12Z] <Rio6> s/down/done/
[2021-05-20T03:56:19Z] <MidFavila> no fancy features, no scripting engine, nothing
[2021-05-20T03:56:21Z] <acheam> MidFavila: which MS paint
[2021-05-20T03:56:27Z] <riteo> acheam: yes
[2021-05-20T03:56:29Z] <MidFavila> 9x/XP era Paint
[2021-05-20T03:56:30Z] <acheam> win7 or winxp
[2021-05-20T03:56:41Z] <MidFavila> i'm talking basic bitch shit
[2021-05-20T03:56:43Z] <riteo> oh god winxp style?
[2021-05-20T03:56:44Z] <MidFavila> the leafpad of image editors
[2021-05-20T03:56:59Z] <riteo> mh, good point though
[2021-05-20T03:56:59Z] <Rio6> ms paint 3d :P
[2021-05-20T03:57:03Z] <MidFavila> because there's really nothing available in that niche
[2021-05-20T03:57:07Z] <acheam> xpaint is pretty close right?
[2021-05-20T03:57:11Z] <noocsharp> i have just the thing for you
[2021-05-20T03:57:13Z] <MidFavila> xpaint is HORRENDOUS
[2021-05-20T03:57:21Z] <noocsharp> http://www.tuxpaint.org/
[2021-05-20T03:57:23Z] <MidFavila> i tried to package it for KISS
[2021-05-20T03:57:29Z] <MidFavila> and it made me want to unironically kill myself
[2021-05-20T03:57:35Z] <Rio6> I knew something simple as paint would exist if I add an x in front of it
[2021-05-20T03:57:37Z] <MidFavila> it's *that bad*
[2021-05-20T03:57:39Z] <acheam> noocsharp: oh thats perfect for mid! Its for children!
[2021-05-20T03:57:44Z] <noocsharp> exactly
[2021-05-20T03:57:46Z] <MidFavila> hey fuck you
[2021-05-20T03:57:50Z] <riteo> but seriously, IMO GNU stuff isn't *that* justifiable
[2021-05-20T03:57:50Z] <MidFavila> i'm legally an adult
[2021-05-20T03:58:07Z] <MidFavila> ...barely, but still
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[2021-05-20T03:58:27Z] <riteo> IMO GNU's not important for their code quality or project managment, but for what they've done in general
[2021-05-20T03:58:35Z] <MidFavila> anyway, xpaint itself is fine
[2021-05-20T03:58:44Z] <MidFavila> and actually, it's quite good, if rough around the edges
[2021-05-20T03:58:50Z] <MidFavila> the problem is the processing package it relies on
[2021-05-20T03:58:56Z] <MidFavila> it's like, 1980s era software
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[2021-05-20T03:59:01Z] <acheam> so?
[2021-05-20T03:59:05Z] <MidFavila> have you 
[2021-05-20T03:59:07Z] <acheam> hello jedavies 
[2021-05-20T03:59:10Z] yamchah2 joined
[2021-05-20T03:59:11Z] <MidFavila> have you *seen*
[2021-05-20T03:59:17Z] <MidFavila> the build system for software that old
[2021-05-20T03:59:29Z] <riteo> how is it?
[2021-05-20T03:59:32Z] <jedavies> Hey
[2021-05-20T03:59:40Z] <MidFavila> see the "it made me want to literally kill myself"
[2021-05-20T03:59:48Z] <MidFavila> i've never worked with a worse system
[2021-05-20T03:59:58Z] <MidFavila> and this is coming from someone who uses imake on a daily basis
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[2021-05-20T04:00:11Z] <MidFavila> like
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[2021-05-20T04:00:20Z] <MidFavila> i would prefer something akin to mach, even
[2021-05-20T04:03:47Z] <MidFavila> anyway, I'm going to bed
[2021-05-20T04:03:57Z] <MidFavila> you're safe from the bayonet for now, acheam
[2021-05-20T04:11:50Z] <riteo> goodnight!
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[2021-05-20T04:22:58Z] <Sweets> thunk
[2021-05-20T04:23:01Z] <Sweets> this thing on?
[2021-05-20T04:36:16Z] <illiliti> +
[2021-05-20T04:45:22Z] <riteo> well, I think I'll go too
[2021-05-20T04:45:24Z] <riteo> bye!
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[2021-05-20T07:00:07Z] <illiliti> https://envs.sh/8x.jpg
[2021-05-20T07:00:13Z] <illiliti> fancy enough? ))
[2021-05-20T07:04:09Z] <cem> Cool :D
[2021-05-20T07:07:14Z] <cem> I finally grabbed this username, all it needed was a network takeover :^)
[2021-05-20T07:12:41Z] <illiliti> nice. don't forget to ask for cloak!
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[2021-05-20T07:13:50Z] <cem> Oh, that's right
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[2021-05-20T09:50:33Z] <phoebos> king's looking really nice
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[2021-05-20T10:22:27Z] <aws> hello o/
[2021-05-20T10:22:32Z] <zenomat> hello
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[2021-05-20T11:47:37Z] <zr> dilyncorner: could you add me to the GitHub org again? I'm going to need that for the libera group setup
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[2021-05-20T12:36:16Z] <zr> globbot is shutting down rather than move to oftc/libera :(
[2021-05-20T12:36:39Z] <zr> Time for me to start yet another sideproject, I guess.
[2021-05-20T12:56:05Z] phoebos joined
[2021-05-20T12:56:08Z] <dilyncorner> https://freenode.net/news/freenode-is-foss
[2021-05-20T12:56:23Z] <phoebos> zr: https://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~phoebos/logs/
[2021-05-20T12:58:09Z] aws quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-20T13:00:07Z] <zr> phoebos: huh, that's cool. Guess our logbot issue is solved for now :^)
[2021-05-20T13:00:41Z] zr set the topic: KISS Linux | https://k1sslinux.org | "the meme has gone too far" | logs: gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~phoebox/logs/ | song of the day: https://inv.skyn3t.in/lhVoP9CrlEU | word of the day: "java"
[2021-05-20T13:00:57Z] <zr> phoebos: also, that's the first time I realized you could access gemini documents over HTTP :^)))
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[2021-05-20T13:01:33Z] <phoebos> :))
[2021-05-20T13:02:29Z] <phoebos> lol they're not actually gemini, just the ssl cert is only valid for the gemini subdomain
[2021-05-20T13:02:48Z] <zr> ohh, not I understand the Not Found errors amfora's giving >:V
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[2021-05-20T13:03:19Z] <phoebos> i could put them on gemini too if people would like
[2021-05-20T13:03:24Z] <phoebos> it's as simple as symlinking
[2021-05-20T13:03:32Z] <zr> dilyncorner: "Ahhh help, freenode is being subject to a hostile takeover!" *silence* "This is the new owner of freenode, everything's alright, really!"
[2021-05-20T13:03:41Z] <dilyncorner> lol right
[2021-05-20T13:03:43Z] <phoebos> lmaoo literally
[2021-05-20T13:03:52Z] <dilyncorner> my biggest question is who's hosting libera.chat now tho 
[2021-05-20T13:03:55Z] zr set the topic: KISS Linux | https://k1sslinux.org | "the meme has gone too far" | logs: https://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~phoebox/logs/ | song of the day: https://inv.skyn3t.in/lhVoP9CrlEU | word of the day: "java"
[2021-05-20T13:04:02Z] <zr> dilyncorner: it's a swedish nonprofit
[2021-05-20T13:04:05Z] <dilyncorner> freenode had all these servers all over. now where are we? 
[2021-05-20T13:04:09Z] <zr> they had some details on their website
[2021-05-20T13:04:11Z] <dilyncorner> sweden? fuck yeah
[2021-05-20T13:04:27Z] <zr> my guess is that eventually the server donors will switch to libera while some stay with the korean guy
[2021-05-20T13:04:28Z] <dilyncorner> do they? I didn't see anything 
[2021-05-20T13:04:33Z] <zr> I thought they did
[2021-05-20T13:05:04Z] <dilyncorner> "This was the writing on the wall. As a precautionary measure, we began laying the groundwork for what would become Libera.Chat. Our legal home is a non-profit association in Sweden, with all our staff holding equal stakes, and we will never accept corporate control." 
[2021-05-20T13:05:06Z] <dilyncorner> but that's about it 
[2021-05-20T13:05:16Z] <zr> oh, yeah, that's what I was referring to.
[2021-05-20T13:09:40Z] <dilyncorner> acheam: will you ping me @ 7/8pm EST to do the thing 
[2021-05-20T13:09:44Z] <dilyncorner> (in 10 or so hours)
[2021-05-20T13:10:46Z] <phoebos> zr: now on gemini too :)
[2021-05-20T13:12:56Z] <travankor>  https://nitter.cc/ariadneconill/status/1395347865271246853
[2021-05-20T13:13:24Z] <zr> nice :)
[2021-05-20T13:13:38Z] <zr> re phoebos 
[2021-05-20T13:14:21Z] <dilyncorner> lmfao they've WHAT 
[2021-05-20T13:15:00Z] <zr> Who was it that suggested that we move to rizon?
[2021-05-20T13:15:13Z] <zr> We could've just stayed on freenode for that!
[2021-05-20T13:15:21Z] <zr> LOL @ "imported"
[2021-05-20T13:20:44Z] <konimex> ah, so the quality of freenode is guaranteed to be going downhill it seems
[2021-05-20T13:21:15Z] <travankor> probably
[2021-05-20T13:21:39Z] <travankor> I find it strange that tomaw is still staff at freenode though
[2021-05-20T13:24:02Z] <zr> it's weird, maybe he's still there due to the legal issues?
[2021-05-20T13:40:42Z] ts194 joined
[2021-05-20T13:41:46Z] <konimex> zr: tomaw has resigned https://twitter.com/ariadneconill/status/1395372472585924609
[2021-05-20T13:46:45Z] <dilyncorner> sometimes twitter is the best
[2021-05-20T13:46:57Z] <travankor> that was fast
[2021-05-20T13:47:34Z] <travankor> time to drop my remaining freenode channels
[2021-05-20T13:49:53Z] <travankor> some bots are ctcp'ing people now on freenode
[2021-05-20T13:50:10Z] <konimex> version or finger?
[2021-05-20T13:50:18Z] claudia02_ joined
[2021-05-20T13:50:49Z] <travankor> version
[2021-05-20T13:52:54Z] <dilyncorner> speaking of, `[CTCP monke] TIME` i got this on libera.chat lol
[2021-05-20T13:53:00Z] <dilyncorner> monke strong together i guess
[2021-05-20T13:57:29Z] <dilyncorner> so many channels have switched to libera goodness gracious. rip freenode
[2021-05-20T14:02:02Z] claudia02_ quit: Quit: zzz
[2021-05-20T14:22:00Z] jslick changed nick to jslick2
[2021-05-20T14:22:33Z] jslick2 changed nick to jslick
[2021-05-20T14:22:49Z] soliwilos parted: 
[2021-05-20T14:25:11Z] phoebos quit: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
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[2021-05-20T15:01:18Z] <acheam> our numbers really fell since the switch
[2021-05-20T15:01:38Z] <noocsharp> https://github.com/htop-dev/htop/issues/618#issuecomment-844863312
[2021-05-20T15:01:58Z] <noocsharp> if anyone has more ideas for why htop should include a pregenerated configure file, drop them there
[2021-05-20T15:02:37Z] <acheam> thank you, noocsharp 
[2021-05-20T15:03:56Z] <acheam> i've been trying to reduce my dependency on htop a bit, finding processes with pgrep, killing with pkill, system utilization with procps tools
[2021-05-20T15:04:15Z] <acheam> actually, all those are procps tools
[2021-05-20T15:04:16Z] ts194 quit: Quit: https://mibbit.com Online IRC Client
[2021-05-20T15:04:31Z] <acheam> so yeah, replacing htop with procps-ng/busybox procps
[2021-05-20T15:06:50Z] <noocsharp> i may end up doing that too and let someone worry about maintaining htop
[2021-05-20T15:07:29Z] <omanom> i don't get why its such a big deal for them to include the file
[2021-05-20T15:07:58Z] <noocsharp> i think its just because github autogenerates tarballs, and this would require manual intervention
[2021-05-20T15:07:59Z] <acheam> it isnt
[2021-05-20T15:08:13Z] <acheam> but you can use GH actions or soemthing
[2021-05-20T15:11:52Z] <omanom> so its laziness rather than any "compelling reason" to *not* provide one
[2021-05-20T15:12:35Z] <noocsharp> their claimed reason is that any system running htop will already have autotools and perl installed by the time the person gets around to building htop
[2021-05-20T15:13:13Z] <noocsharp> even though very few programs actually require autotools to build, they just put configure files in their tarballs...
[2021-05-20T15:20:56Z] <konimex> I was going to suggest replacing autotools entirely but that would be more work so eh
[2021-05-20T15:22:16Z] <dilyncorner> the reason for providing a ready-to-build distributable tarball is *self-evident* 
[2021-05-20T15:22:28Z] <dilyncorner> smh why are devs like this
[2021-05-20T15:29:38Z] blitzed joined
[2021-05-20T15:38:38Z] blitzed parted: +++ATH0&D2 NO CARRIER NO CAREER
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[2021-05-20T15:51:40Z] <aws> Test
[2021-05-20T15:51:52Z] <aws> test
[2021-05-20T15:52:45Z] aws quit: Client Quit
[2021-05-20T16:03:03Z] kornel joined
[2021-05-20T16:15:52Z] <noocsharp> well it appears like procps-ng is full of glibcisms
[2021-05-20T16:28:58Z] <dilyncorner> https://natlas.io/ what a cool place 
[2021-05-20T16:29:12Z] <dilyncorner> my favorite part is when they flooded my logs
[2021-05-20T16:35:51Z] <MidFavila> there's a reason I used procps oldschool on my laptop for so long
[2021-05-20T16:44:04Z] nkg joined
[2021-05-20T16:47:58Z] aws joined
[2021-05-20T16:50:14Z] <omanom> @aws did you end up switching irc clients?
[2021-05-20T17:02:23Z] <acheam> busybox procps works well enough for me
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[2021-05-20T17:40:25Z] <mmatongo> acheam
[2021-05-20T17:40:59Z] acheam joined
[2021-05-20T17:43:13Z] <mmatongo> acheam: hi
[2021-05-20T17:44:05Z] <acheam> hi mmatongo 
[2021-05-20T17:44:32Z] <mmatongo> you good?
[2021-05-20T17:44:44Z] <MidFavila> acheam
[2021-05-20T17:44:59Z] aws quit: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[2021-05-20T17:45:01Z] <acheam> MidFavila: yes?
[2021-05-20T17:45:04Z] <acheam> yeah im doing fine, thanks
[2021-05-20T17:45:06Z] <MidFavila> hi acheam
[2021-05-20T17:45:12Z] <MidFavila> :3
[2021-05-20T17:45:50Z] <acheam> oi I can't change the topic
[2021-05-20T17:45:54Z] <acheam> zr: 
[2021-05-20T17:46:11Z] <MidFavila> something something don't need three ops in a channel this size
[2021-05-20T17:46:53Z] <acheam> something something sotd
[2021-05-20T17:47:06Z] <acheam> at least i'd like the topic moe
[2021-05-20T17:47:09Z] <acheam> mode
[2021-05-20T17:47:13Z] <MidFavila> moe
[2021-05-20T17:47:19Z] <travankor> yes
[2021-05-20T17:47:23Z] <MidFavila> that's a freudian slip, acheam
[2021-05-20T17:47:29Z] <MidFavila> we're blocking kissanime
[2021-05-20T17:47:35Z] <travankor> heeeeeh
[2021-05-20T17:48:15Z] <acheam> oh nooo
[2021-05-20T17:48:21Z] <acheam> you've seen my inner self
[2021-05-20T17:48:28Z] <acheam> you know im a weeb now
[2021-05-20T17:49:00Z] <mmatongo> acheam: I have summoned you here for a purpose
[2021-05-20T17:49:25Z] <mmatongo> How can I get my idle ram  below 70MB
[2021-05-20T17:49:37Z] <MidFavila> before long you'll be watching Boku no Pico, acheam
[2021-05-20T17:49:52Z] <MidFavila> you can get your idle ram that low by not using a device manager or display server
[2021-05-20T17:50:22Z] <mmatongo> xorg is bae
[2021-05-20T17:50:32Z] <omanom> but muh hotplugging
[2021-05-20T17:50:32Z] <travankor> xorg is bloat
[2021-05-20T17:50:36Z] <mmatongo> or maybe I should try wayland
[2021-05-20T17:50:54Z] <travankor> that won't improve the ram situation
[2021-05-20T17:51:42Z] <travankor> mmatongo: mpv works from the framebuffer
[2021-05-20T17:51:48Z] <dilyncorner> wayland isn't much more lightweight than Xorg 
[2021-05-20T17:51:53Z] <dilyncorner> especially if you set a wallpaper 
[2021-05-20T17:52:11Z] <mmatongo> I don't use mpv
[2021-05-20T17:52:35Z] <travankor> good, that's less bloat to deal with
[2021-05-20T17:52:58Z] <MidFavila> i mean
[2021-05-20T17:53:04Z] <MidFavila> mpv is unironically bloat in most cases, yes
[2021-05-20T17:53:05Z] <MidFavila> use ffplay
[2021-05-20T17:53:48Z] <travankor> wm4 btfo by ffplay
[2021-05-20T17:53:54Z] <omanom> does mpv count when idle, though?
[2021-05-20T17:54:19Z] <omanom> these bounds need to be better defined, dammit!
[2021-05-20T17:54:32Z] <mmatongo> I feel mpI feel motivated get maximum minimal
[2021-05-20T17:55:58Z] <mmatongo> oddly enough my system is pretty minimal, only 110 packages 
[2021-05-20T17:56:21Z] <MidFavila> that's pretty standard for a full KISS install i think
[2021-05-20T17:56:37Z] <MidFavila> i'm almost at 300 on my desktop, but that's including all my build tools
[2021-05-20T17:56:52Z] <MidFavila> cutting build tools out would drop to around 240-250, I bet.
[2021-05-20T17:57:31Z] <mmatongo> Mine includes build tools, I don't install everything into my root.
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[2021-05-20T18:02:27Z] <dilyncorner> 77 :v 
[2021-05-20T18:02:56Z] <mmatongo> my man
[2021-05-20T18:05:55Z] <mmatongo> wait, dilyn is that with xorg?
[2021-05-20T18:11:07Z] <dilyncorner> wayland
[2021-05-20T18:11:14Z] <dilyncorner> xorg i had something like 100 
[2021-05-20T18:11:17Z] <omanom> dilyncorner is that your static install count?
[2021-05-20T18:11:26Z] <dilyncorner> naaah that's my daily driver count 
[2021-05-20T18:11:41Z] <dilyncorner> I will be revisiting the static system soon(tm) on my laptop
[2021-05-20T18:13:26Z] <omanom> noice
[2021-05-20T18:13:55Z] cem quit: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[2021-05-20T18:13:59Z] <omanom> is xorg more packages just because stuff is split out more?  like, protocols, xauth, etc?
[2021-05-20T18:14:09Z] <dilyncorner> mmhmm
[2021-05-20T18:15:03Z] <dilyncorner> wayland is basically just lixkbcommon+xkeyboard-config+wayland along with wlroots or swc or w/e
[2021-05-20T18:15:24Z] <dilyncorner> if you want xwayland you'll need whatever xorg-server requires
[2021-05-20T18:16:53Z] mmatongo quit: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[2021-05-20T18:48:04Z] <claudia02> dilyncorner: Is building chromium without any toolkit just "use_gtk=false"?
[2021-05-20T18:48:18Z] <dilyncorner> yes
[2021-05-20T18:48:23Z] <acheam> how's that work?
[2021-05-20T18:48:27Z] <dilyncorner> chromium will use its builtin, auria2 or whatever it is... 
[2021-05-20T18:48:31Z] <acheam> hmm
[2021-05-20T18:48:32Z] <dilyncorner> aura? idk
[2021-05-20T18:48:46Z] <claudia02> nice.
[2021-05-20T18:48:49Z] <dilyncorner> you'll miss out on things like e.g. popup windows
[2021-05-20T18:48:58Z] <claudia02> I hope 8gb ram + 10gig swapfile is enough.
[2021-05-20T18:49:13Z] <dilyncorner> (downloads locations, uploading things, etc.)
[2021-05-20T18:49:26Z] <dilyncorner> depends on how many jobs you run. I hit OOM with -j24
[2021-05-20T18:49:29Z] <dilyncorner> 32gb
[2021-05-20T18:49:39Z] <claudia02> puhh
[2021-05-20T18:49:59Z] <claudia02> this is insanity.
[2021-05-20T18:51:01Z] <dilyncorner> lol
[2021-05-20T18:51:29Z] <dilyncorner> you can also disable glib by passing use_gio=no, use_glib=no
[2021-05-20T18:51:36Z] * claudia02 creates 20gb swapfile and comes back in 2 days.
[2021-05-20T18:51:40Z] <dilyncorner> XD
[2021-05-20T18:51:58Z] <dilyncorner> if you don't build in RAM you'll be okay
[2021-05-20T18:52:00Z] <MidFavila> building browsers with multiple jobs requires an insane machine
[2021-05-20T18:52:18Z] <MidFavila> like, even on my rig I can only hit around 12
[2021-05-20T18:52:42Z] <claudia02> Y dont enable tmpfs. Thx for the reminder.
[2021-05-20T18:53:35Z] mmatongo joined
[2021-05-20T18:54:29Z] <dilyncorner> mid, we need more cores
[2021-05-20T18:54:35Z] <dilyncorner> we could tie our machines together :o
[2021-05-20T18:54:37Z] <dilyncorner> distcc to the rescue
[2021-05-20T18:55:00Z] <claudia02> I tried distcc but could not get it connect to another machine :'(
[2021-05-20T18:55:09Z] <claudia02> network stuff can be ..hard
[2021-05-20T18:55:48Z] <dilyncorner> it's roughly impossible
[2021-05-20T18:56:23Z] <claudia02> I figured setting up a chroot and all that is faster than debugging that.
[2021-05-20T18:56:46Z] <MidFavila> dilyn and I will have to do a fusion dance over jitsi
[2021-05-20T18:57:02Z] claudia02 quit: Quit: zzz
[2021-05-20T18:57:03Z] <MidFavila> create an unholy abomination 
[2021-05-20T18:57:29Z] <dilyncorner> https://www.pojo.com/yu-gi-oh/COTD/2002/Sept2002/polymerization.jpg
[2021-05-20T18:57:45Z] <MidFavila> Dilyn Favila
[2021-05-20T18:57:54Z] <MidFavila> level nine hipster monster
[2021-05-20T19:12:32Z] mmatongo quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-20T19:27:01Z] kubast2 joined
[2021-05-20T19:27:14Z] <kubast2> man I finally got that j1800 booting and connected to my network
[2021-05-20T19:27:40Z] <kubast2> I had issues going to uefi menu
[2021-05-20T19:27:45Z] claudia02 joined
[2021-05-20T19:28:04Z] <omanom> it would just go blank on you, right?
[2021-05-20T19:28:36Z] <kubast2> it wouldn't post, and when it would post it would just show a mouse, but the whole screen had black stripes all over as if it was an old video game console
[2021-05-20T19:28:46Z] <kubast2> or rather it had scanlines on a hdtv
[2021-05-20T19:29:28Z] <omanom> did it end up being a kernel issue?
[2021-05-20T19:29:49Z] <kubast2> nope turned out that motherboard/cpu hates this very hdtv
[2021-05-20T19:29:55Z] <kubast2> once it boots grub or linux it works
[2021-05-20T19:30:10Z] <kubast2> so I connected it to my monitor and it would boot
[2021-05-20T19:30:14Z] <kubast2> hotswap hdmi to a tv and it works
[2021-05-20T19:30:25Z] <omanom> interesting
[2021-05-20T19:30:32Z] <omanom> "fuck THIS tv in particular!"
[2021-05-20T19:30:39Z] nerditup joined
[2021-05-20T19:30:45Z] <nerditup> oh hey
[2021-05-20T19:31:07Z] <omanom> welcome!
[2021-05-20T19:31:25Z] <kubast2> I haven't setup kiss mind you, I do assume I won't be able to configure a kernel+install all firmware on my first try; I am just happy it managed to boot debian
[2021-05-20T19:31:46Z] <kubast2> and I were welcomed in a typical debian manner, where the iso has firmware, but postinstall it no longer has it
[2021-05-20T19:32:29Z] <MidFavila> dab-ian
[2021-05-20T19:33:03Z] <kubast2> I will need to boot to bios again, I set the igpu memory to auto, so now it reserved 384MiB of ram instead of 64MiB to it
[2021-05-20T19:33:35Z] <nerditup> Happy to be back in the channel
[2021-05-20T19:34:10Z] <ang> welcome back, nerditup
[2021-05-20T19:34:29Z] <nerditup> if only Dylan would suddenly reappear...
[2021-05-20T19:36:58Z] aws joined
[2021-05-20T19:38:16Z] <aws> I just read the post on https://k1sslinux.org/news/20210519a, I'm glad Dylan is doing fine :)
[2021-05-20T19:42:51Z] <kubast2> I think the main reason I had no screen when I tried kiss on my laptop
[2021-05-20T19:43:00Z] <kubast2> was because I didn't install i915/i965 firmware
[2021-05-20T19:44:34Z] <zr> acheam: oh sorry, you should be able to set the topic now
[2021-05-20T19:45:06Z] <kubast2> word of the day: "java"
[2021-05-20T19:45:20Z] <MidFavila> word of the day: "Andrew Lee"
[2021-05-20T19:45:39Z] <zr> okaaay, let's keep andy out of the topic :V
[2021-05-20T19:45:44Z] * MidFavila cackles
[2021-05-20T19:45:47Z] <zr> we can stick to computing stuff
[2021-05-20T19:45:53Z] <MidFavila> you gotta be *cheeky* about it
[2021-05-20T19:46:49Z] <kubast2> apology for poor english \n when were you when freenode dies \n i was at home compiling kernel when fred ring \n 'freenode is kill' \n 'nooo'
[2021-05-20T19:47:03Z] <MidFavila> >freenode is kill
[2021-05-20T19:47:09Z] <MidFavila> im dying
[2021-05-20T19:51:59Z] <nerditup> aws: oh I didn't see this, good to see we got some confirmation 
[2021-05-20T19:52:26Z] gtms joined
[2021-05-20T19:52:43Z] <MidFavila> acheam you should add kubast's quip to the fortunes file
[2021-05-20T19:54:32Z] gtms changed nick to gt
[2021-05-20T19:54:35Z] gt changed nick to gtms
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[2021-05-20T20:00:31Z] <kubast2> MPTCP: Multipath TCP (MPTCP) [N/y/?] :o
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[2021-05-20T20:36:46Z] phoebos quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[2021-05-20T20:51:08Z] <acheam> zr: still cant
[2021-05-20T20:52:47Z] claudia02 quit: Quit: claudia02
[2021-05-20T21:00:55Z] ChanServ set the topic: foo bar baz
[2021-05-20T21:01:08Z] <zr> acheam: ah, you have to use chanserv's TOPIC command
[2021-05-20T21:01:17Z] <zr> /msg ChanServ TOPIC #kisslinux foo
[2021-05-20T21:02:05Z] zr set the topic: KISS Linux | https://k1sslinux.org | "The meme has gone too far" | logs: https://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~phoebox/logs/ | song of the day: https://inv.skyn3t.in/lhVoP9CrlEU | word of the day: "ChanServ"
[2021-05-20T21:02:50Z] <aws> ChanServ
[2021-05-20T21:03:59Z] <acheam> thanks!
[2021-05-20T21:04:20Z] <MidFavila> i still think my WotD was better
[2021-05-20T21:04:30Z] ChanServ set the topic: KISS Linux | https://k1sslinux.org | "The meme has gone too far" | logs: https://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~phoebos/logs/ | song of the day: https://inv.skyn3t.in/lhVoP9CrlEU | word of the day: "ChanServ"
[2021-05-20T21:09:51Z] <zr> MidFavila: what was that?
[2021-05-20T21:09:58Z] <Rio6> oh we got a new log place
[2021-05-20T21:10:08Z] <kubast2> https://imgur.com/a/wupxNAr 
[2021-05-20T21:11:11Z] <acheam> ew proprietary javascript
[2021-05-20T21:11:49Z] <zr> ew required javascript!
[2021-05-20T21:12:02Z] <acheam> ew required proprietary javascript!
[2021-05-20T21:12:28Z] <acheam> if your site doesn't work in EWW please keep a 50ft radius of me
[2021-05-20T21:12:30Z] <MidFavila> zr "Andrew Lee"
[2021-05-20T21:12:35Z] <zr> smh
[2021-05-20T21:12:54Z] <Rio6> ewwscript
[2021-05-20T21:13:03Z] <MidFavila> unironically cringe
[2021-05-20T21:13:05Z] <omanom> https://github.com/johanmalm/labwc openbox-"like" Wayland compositor project
[2021-05-20T21:13:09Z] <MidFavila> logs that can't be read plaintext are useless
[2021-05-20T21:13:13Z] <MidFavila> use CGI
[2021-05-20T21:13:45Z] <acheam> im confused
[2021-05-20T21:13:52Z] <acheam> so it uses openbox config syntax
[2021-05-20T21:13:55Z] <acheam> but isnt a drop in clone?
[2021-05-20T21:14:03Z] <acheam> s/clone/replacement/g
[2021-05-20T21:14:07Z] <MidFavila> for the record
[2021-05-20T21:14:11Z] <omanom> no, not a clone
[2021-05-20T21:14:14Z] <MidFavila> it should be "uses blackbox config syntax"
[2021-05-20T21:14:20Z] <acheam> ^
[2021-05-20T21:14:33Z] <MidFavila> because *box are all derivatives of blackbox in some way
[2021-05-20T21:14:35Z] <omanom> which came first, fluxbox or blackbox?
[2021-05-20T21:14:38Z] <MidFavila> blackbox
[2021-05-20T21:14:39Z] <omanom> oh i guess that answers be
[2021-05-20T21:14:44Z] <MidFavila> fluxbox came waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay later
[2021-05-20T21:14:45Z] <omanom> s/be/me/
[2021-05-20T21:15:00Z] <kubast2> how well does recording video works on wayland? last time I tried wayland it required gnome to actually work; and couldn't record over 15fps
[2021-05-20T21:15:06Z] <acheam> but mid
[2021-05-20T21:15:08Z] <acheam> whats a blackbo
[2021-05-20T21:15:09Z] <acheam> x
[2021-05-20T21:15:17Z] <acheam> distrotooohb told me to use openbox
[2021-05-20T21:15:40Z] <MidFavila> a blackbox is a component found in vehicles, especially military, aviation or police, that serves to record information from the vehicle's sensors during operation
[2021-05-20T21:15:46Z] <MidFavila> this provides logs to be recovered in the event of a crash
[2021-05-20T21:16:06Z] <acheam> but but but
[2021-05-20T21:16:09Z] <MidFavila> it also refers to a hidden or obscured method or component in the realm of software and other engineering forms
[2021-05-20T21:16:13Z] <acheam> my algebra teacher said an equation is a black box
[2021-05-20T21:16:21Z] <MidFavila> your algebra teacher was a dumbass
[2021-05-20T21:16:27Z] <MidFavila> most high school teachers are
[2021-05-20T21:16:50Z] <MidFavila> i, as a master of all things involving reunion of broken parts, am clearly qualified to say this
[2021-05-20T21:17:16Z] <MidFavila> and by "master" I mean I'm still working on algebra 1 on khan academy. but that's the *important* thing.
[2021-05-20T21:17:24Z] <zr> lol
[2021-05-20T21:17:51Z] <MidFavila> i'm LEARNING
[2021-05-20T21:18:20Z] <MidFavila> didn't even have an algebra teacher. smh.
[2021-05-20T21:18:22Z] <omanom> grumble grumble everyone's wayland repos have xwayland enabled grumble grumble
[2021-05-20T21:18:39Z] <zr> I don't think grumble is in here
[2021-05-20T21:18:52Z] <MidFavila> grumble grumble wayland can't run anything that isn't super modern grumble grumble
[2021-05-20T21:19:16Z] <omanom> i have a second laptop, figured i'd try it out on that
[2021-05-20T21:20:25Z] aws quit: Ping timeout: 257 seconds
[2021-05-20T21:21:03Z] <MidFavila> like
[2021-05-20T21:21:11Z] <MidFavila> does wayland have anything akin to stalonetray yet
[2021-05-20T21:21:35Z] <omanom> don't know, don't care, i don't use trays
[2021-05-20T21:21:47Z] <MidFavila> trays are useful
[2021-05-20T21:22:23Z] <MidFavila> better than the redditors who talk about how tilers give you maximum screen real-estate but use gaps
[2021-05-20T21:22:58Z] <kubast2> how much space should I reserve for a kiss initial install?(I will use a loop mounted image to then extend)
[2021-05-20T21:23:04Z] <omanom> i don't use trays, so they're not useful for me
[2021-05-20T21:23:12Z] <MidFavila> for just a base install, kubast2?
[2021-05-20T21:23:15Z] <MidFavila> like a gig
[2021-05-20T21:23:15Z] <kubast2> 32GiB should be fine right? 
[2021-05-20T21:23:22Z] <MidFavila> if you want a full system
[2021-05-20T21:23:25Z] <MidFavila> i usually go for ten gigs
[2021-05-20T21:23:33Z] <kubast2> iirc the kernel compilation job uses the most space
[2021-05-20T21:23:49Z] <kubast2> runned out of space at 16GiB image last time
[2021-05-20T21:23:50Z] <MidFavila> yeah, it uses two or three, iirc
[2021-05-20T21:25:09Z] <kubast2> 4,9G    linux/ for localmodconfig without loop devices, and likelly without usb hdd support etc.
[2021-05-20T21:25:31Z] <MidFavila> if it's localmodconfig then uh
[2021-05-20T21:25:38Z] <MidFavila> that's why it takes so much space
[2021-05-20T21:25:39Z] <MidFavila> lmao
[2021-05-20T21:26:01Z] <kubast2> I also used the arch linux kernel config used up like 30GiB 
[2021-05-20T21:26:10Z] <MidFavila> honestly
[2021-05-20T21:26:13Z] <MidFavila> it's painful at first
[2021-05-20T21:26:19Z] <MidFavila> but spend a few hours reading about your hardware specs
[2021-05-20T21:26:25Z] m3g joined
[2021-05-20T21:26:29Z] <MidFavila> find out the chipsets used by your disk controller, soundcard, GPU, etc
[2021-05-20T21:26:36Z] <m3g> yay
[2021-05-20T21:26:38Z] <MidFavila> use a defconfig, and then enable what you want
[2021-05-20T21:26:51Z] <m3g> now I can idle here
[2021-05-20T21:27:03Z] <omanom> lol welcome back m3g
[2021-05-20T21:28:01Z] <m3g> hello btw, and glad to know dylan is okay
[2021-05-20T21:28:53Z] claudia02 joined
[2021-05-20T21:30:39Z] <acheam> hello m3g 
[2021-05-20T21:36:09Z] gtms quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-20T21:46:56Z] <claudia02> ahh, my chromium build fails with a python error.
[2021-05-20T21:48:43Z] <claudia02> http://ix.io/3npU
[2021-05-20T21:49:28Z] <claudia02> This is building in a chroot.
[2021-05-20T21:55:16Z] <omanom> what did ./configure output
[2021-05-20T21:57:35Z] illiliti joined
[2021-05-20T22:03:46Z] <claudia02> omanom:  What do you mean? Chromium does not use ./configure (:
[2021-05-20T22:05:59Z] user joined
[2021-05-20T22:06:39Z] user quit: Client Quit
[2021-05-20T22:21:02Z] <acheam> argh I want to write a program that won't be tied to Xorg but the only gui toolkits for Wayland are GTK3/4 and Qt5
[2021-05-20T22:22:01Z] <Rio6> write your own using SDL :)
[2021-05-20T22:22:14Z] <acheam> ughhhhhhhhh
[2021-05-20T22:23:12Z] <acheam> wait im savved
[2021-05-20T22:23:26Z] <acheam> GNUstep supports wayland
[2021-05-20T22:23:45Z] <acheam> but its written in objective-C
[2021-05-20T22:26:15Z] Uks2 quit: Quit: Byee
[2021-05-20T22:27:05Z] Uks2 joined
[2021-05-20T22:31:37Z] <MidFavila> GNUStep is fucking based...
[2021-05-20T22:31:41Z] <MidFavila> ...but it's written in object-c
[2021-05-20T22:31:51Z] <MidFavila> that's my reaction every time I think of it
[2021-05-20T22:32:04Z] andyandybobandy joined
[2021-05-20T22:32:27Z] <MidFavila> i really hope that GNUStep takes off eventually
[2021-05-20T22:33:47Z] <acheam> for context i want to create a calendar program (no i'm not ripping off mid's idea, this has some pretty specific needs)
[2021-05-20T22:34:00Z] <MidFavila> "my idea" is a rip-off of xcalendar lmao
[2021-05-20T22:34:02Z] <MidFavila> rip away
[2021-05-20T22:34:15Z] <acheam> lol
[2021-05-20T22:34:21Z] <MidFavila> does FLTK work on wayland?
[2021-05-20T22:34:26Z] <MidFavila> you might like it
[2021-05-20T22:34:27Z] <acheam> but I know its going to take some time to write, and im going to want to use it for a while
[2021-05-20T22:34:44Z] <acheam> so don't want to confine myself strictly to xorg even though thats what im using now, and will be using for the forseeable future
[2021-05-20T22:34:45Z] <MidFavila> ...no, FLTK does not support wayland
[2021-05-20T22:34:46Z] <MidFavila> rip
[2021-05-20T22:35:00Z] <acheam> there isnt a good list of all the toolkits supporting wayland
[2021-05-20T22:35:07Z] <MidFavila> that's because there's like
[2021-05-20T22:35:11Z] <MidFavila> two toolkits that do
[2021-05-20T22:35:11Z] <MidFavila> lmao
[2021-05-20T22:35:11Z] <acheam> wikipeida has conflicitng info, and the info on freedesktop.org is straight up wrong
[2021-05-20T22:35:23Z] <MidFavila> this is why wayland is still beta tech
[2021-05-20T22:35:23Z] <acheam> well theres a lot of OpenGL libraries that do
[2021-05-20T22:35:35Z] <MidFavila> >using opengl to write a calendar
[2021-05-20T22:35:39Z] <MidFavila> you see the problem here right
[2021-05-20T22:35:41Z] <acheam> plus Qt5, plus GTK3/4, plus GNUStep as of earlier this month, plus EFL kind of
[2021-05-20T22:35:47Z] <acheam> but the effects!
[2021-05-20T22:35:57Z] <MidFavila> but the massive inefficiency and overkill!
[2021-05-20T22:36:08Z] <omanom> claudia02 whoops sorry.  i was wondering if there was a way you could see whether that missing library had been mistakenly detected as present or something else like that
[2021-05-20T22:36:37Z] <kubast2> EFL was the only semi-usuable library I have used in terms of layouting and general feel, until I realized I am not sure how to overload/get input events to overload the textbox control over the resizing of a window
[2021-05-20T22:36:54Z] <kubast2> didn't got any far with qt nor gtk
[2021-05-20T22:37:06Z] <omanom> start living the TUI life.  GUIs are for goofs.
[2021-05-20T22:37:20Z] <MidFavila> in my defence I use a tablet computer
[2021-05-20T22:37:25Z] <MidFavila> i kind of need a basic GUI
[2021-05-20T22:37:31Z] <kubast2> gtk3 and gtk2 has weird changes, so when you add a new button in gtk3 it is by default marked as clicked/selected in terms of theme style
[2021-05-20T22:37:31Z] <omanom> there's touch support for TUIs
[2021-05-20T22:37:41Z] <MidFavila> on a per-program basis and it's clunky at best
[2021-05-20T22:38:01Z] <kubast2> and qt is so gigantic idk where to start
[2021-05-20T22:38:03Z] <MidFavila> so I could fuck around with that, or I could tinker on my FVWM config and be good to go
[2021-05-20T22:38:06Z] <MidFavila> and yes, Qt is ass
[2021-05-20T22:38:22Z] <MidFavila> every time I think about the state of Unix toolkits I get super pissed
[2021-05-20T22:38:31Z] <kubast2> you know qt could have made a kernel framework and I wouldn't notice
[2021-05-20T22:38:52Z] aws joined
[2021-05-20T22:40:19Z] <acheam> i guess I could write this in emacs
[2021-05-20T22:40:34Z] <acheam> but that would require actually learning elisp
[2021-05-20T22:40:47Z] <acheam> actually that probably makes the most sense to me
[2021-05-20T22:41:00Z] <MidFavila> er
[2021-05-20T22:41:02Z] <kubast2> wayland toolkit in elips?
[2021-05-20T22:41:06Z] <MidFavila> if you're going to write in a LISP
[2021-05-20T22:41:09Z] <MidFavila> learn GUILE
[2021-05-20T22:41:13Z] <kubast2> I did heard lisp works for guis?
[2021-05-20T22:41:13Z] <acheam> i meant write it for emacs
[2021-05-20T22:41:17Z] <MidFavila> afaik ELisp is being phased out
[2021-05-20T22:41:27Z] <MidFavila> in favor of GUILE
[2021-05-20T22:41:34Z] <acheam> it will never really be phased out
[2021-05-20T22:41:39Z] <MidFavila> well, never *really*
[2021-05-20T22:41:44Z] <acheam> waaaaaay to much pre written stuff for it
[2021-05-20T22:41:46Z] <MidFavila> because someone somewhere will throw a fit
[2021-05-20T22:41:53Z] <MidFavila> but just something to consider
[2021-05-20T22:42:06Z] <kubast2> MidFavila, how well do immediate mode toolkits work? like imgui and nuklear, how is their api to use?
[2021-05-20T22:42:10Z] <kubast2> feel to use*
[2021-05-20T22:42:11Z] <acheam> because do you really want to throw 30 years of development down the drain and start over?
[2021-05-20T22:42:28Z] <MidFavila> Sometimes, yes.
[2021-05-20T22:42:42Z] <MidFavila> kubast2 I wouldn't know, I'm honestly not a programmer. Not yet anyway
[2021-05-20T22:42:48Z] <MidFavila> I'm just highly opinionated :v
[2021-05-20T22:43:05Z] <MidFavila> I should fight Devault
[2021-05-20T22:43:15Z] <kubast2> fight'im
[2021-05-20T22:43:26Z] <MidFavila> i'd totally win
[2021-05-20T22:44:25Z] andyandybobandy parted: Konversation terminated!
[2021-05-20T22:52:56Z] <noocsharp> acheam: if you're okay with working at a lower level than a gui toolkit, the libdrw from suckless can be made to target Xorg or wayland (although it doesn't provide complete abstraction over windowing systems)
[2021-05-20T22:58:03Z] claudia02 quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[2021-05-20T22:59:07Z] <buffet> MidFavila, iirc its not replacing it, its jsut going to be usable in parallel to elisp (similar how you can use lua and vim starting from neovim 0.5); ie youll still be able to use all the plugins not forced to port your config
[2021-05-20T22:59:23Z] * MidFavila shrugs
[2021-05-20T22:59:26Z] <MidFavila> Doesn't bother me either way
[2021-05-20T22:59:29Z] <MidFavila> I'm not an emacs guy.
[2021-05-20T22:59:43Z] m3g quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[2021-05-20T23:00:44Z] <MidFavila> like
[2021-05-20T23:00:49Z] <MidFavila> if emacs was an OS instead of a program
[2021-05-20T23:00:52Z] <MidFavila> i'd be all over it
[2021-05-20T23:01:54Z] <acheam> emacs is a userland
[2021-05-20T23:02:30Z] <MidFavila> okay
[2021-05-20T23:02:30Z] <MidFavila> so
[2021-05-20T23:02:32Z] <acheam> noocsharp: id rather work within a certain system with its own ecosystem than just getting pixels on the screen
[2021-05-20T23:02:35Z] <cem> Uh, it's fight over emacs time again?
[2021-05-20T23:02:42Z] <MidFavila> sell me on using emacs as a userland, compared to suckless
[2021-05-20T23:02:44Z] <acheam> but thanks for the suggestion
[2021-05-20T23:02:53Z] <buffet> emacs bad, all other editors also bad
[2021-05-20T23:02:54Z] <acheam> cem: hey ive come over to your side!
[2021-05-20T23:03:03Z] <acheam> steady hand and a fine needle
[2021-05-20T23:03:17Z] <MidFavila> literally just use ed.
[2021-05-20T23:03:21Z] <cem> M-x butterfly
[2021-05-20T23:03:21Z] <MidFavila> fuckn nerds.
[2021-05-20T23:03:42Z] <MidFavila> i bet you can't even figure out how to quit ed, acheam.
[2021-05-20T23:03:53Z] <cem> It's even easier than vim
[2021-05-20T23:04:05Z] <acheam> ^C
[2021-05-20T23:04:09Z] <cem> q
[2021-05-20T23:04:23Z] <MidFavila> imagine thinking ed cares about your silly little ^C
[2021-05-20T23:04:35Z] <acheam> pkill ed
[2021-05-20T23:04:39Z] <MidFavila> ed *laughs* at your pathetic attempt to leave
[2021-05-20T23:05:57Z] <MidFavila> man, speaking of editors, I really need to tinker with tine some more
[2021-05-20T23:05:59Z] <cem> Ed does not laugh
[2021-05-20T23:06:12Z] kubast2 changed nick to kubast2_away
[2021-05-20T23:06:13Z] <cem> Ed question marks into your soul
[2021-05-20T23:06:16Z] <MidFavila> ?
[2021-05-20T23:06:31Z] <cem> w
[2021-05-20T23:06:32Z] <cem> q
[2021-05-20T23:06:34Z] <MidFavila> ?
[2021-05-20T23:06:47Z] m3g joined
[2021-05-20T23:07:30Z] <cem> Don't worry MidFavila 
[2021-05-20T23:07:35Z] <cem> I use ed inside emacs
[2021-05-20T23:07:46Z] <MidFavila> it's kind of hilarious how little memory ed uses
[2021-05-20T23:08:01Z] <MidFavila> lxtask reports that it only uses 4kb, but it's gotta be less.
[2021-05-20T23:08:24Z] <noocsharp> what happens when you open a file?
[2021-05-20T23:08:31Z] <MidFavila> still reports as 4kb
[2021-05-20T23:08:33Z] <MidFavila> :v
[2021-05-20T23:08:41Z] <cem> Imagine using a GUI task manager
[2021-05-20T23:08:46Z] <MidFavila> again
[2021-05-20T23:08:48Z] <MidFavila> tablet
[2021-05-20T23:08:59Z] <cem> Ohh
[2021-05-20T23:09:28Z] <cem> You use ed on a tablet but not htop
[2021-05-20T23:09:38Z] <MidFavila> no, I use tine on a tablet
[2021-05-20T23:09:46Z] <MidFavila> because ed is kind of a pain for larger files
[2021-05-20T23:10:19Z] <cem> What about GNU ed?
[2021-05-20T23:10:29Z] <MidFavila> ed is a pain for larger files
[2021-05-20T23:10:35Z] <MidFavila> that doesn't change based on implementation
[2021-05-20T23:10:41Z] <cem> Ah alright
[2021-05-20T23:10:54Z] V3 joined
[2021-05-20T23:11:47Z] <cem> I usually use ed on small files, I thought it could be an implementation thing
[2021-05-20T23:12:10Z] <MidFavila> ed is fine for banging out a quick commit message or somethin'
[2021-05-20T23:12:16Z] <cem> Like how busybox yes is crap and GNU yes is a disk destroyer
[2021-05-20T23:12:22Z] <MidFavila> but like, my FVWM config is around 3k lines
[2021-05-20T23:12:27Z] <MidFavila> i don't want to edit that with ed
[2021-05-20T23:12:33Z] <V3> Hey there! New home =)
[2021-05-20T23:12:48Z] <MidFavila> yeah, we just finished setting everything back up today
[2021-05-20T23:13:21Z] cem quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-20T23:15:01Z] <MidFavila> hmm
[2021-05-20T23:15:14Z] <MidFavila> what would you guys think of painting a cosmos ii with an Altair color scheme
[2021-05-20T23:17:27Z] V3 quit: Quit: Quit
[2021-05-20T23:34:20Z] <acheam> anybody know a KISS alternative to vdirsyncer?
[2021-05-20T23:35:00Z] <acheam> something that downloads gcal and caldav ics files
[2021-05-20T23:35:11Z] <acheam> that doens't require python ideally
[2021-05-20T23:38:40Z] nkg quit: Quit: Connection closed
[2021-05-20T23:44:59Z] an3223 joined