[2023-03-05T03:55:21Z] <sewn> Hi
[2023-03-05T04:08:47Z] <testuser[m]123> Hi
[2023-03-05T05:58:18Z] <Ellowee[m]> Sleep $((RANDOM%86400))
[2023-03-05T05:58:36Z] <sewn> No
[2023-03-05T05:58:42Z] <Ellowee[m]> Yes
[2023-03-05T05:59:01Z] <Ellowee[m]> Yeeeeeees
[2023-03-05T05:59:01Z] <sewn> Nooooooo
[2023-03-05T06:09:47Z] <sewn> Segmentation fault
[2023-03-05T06:24:49Z] <Ellowee[m]> ```Core Dumped```
[2023-03-05T06:25:11Z] <Ellowee[m]> * Core Dumped
[2023-03-05T06:25:32Z] <Ellowee[m]> No inanity niceguy
[2023-03-05T06:25:59Z] <niceguy5000[m]> wael:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/56a6503745f5df47262bd76fe2d9e2ab3ba80c71>)
[2023-03-05T06:26:22Z] <sewn> this will always echo :(
[2023-03-05T06:26:29Z] <Ellowee[m]> shellcheck is gonna complain to that
[2023-03-05T06:26:48Z] <sewn> its not even shell smh
[2023-03-05T16:26:18Z] <midfavila> guess who's back to being a neet?
[2023-03-05T16:36:51Z] <sewn> bruh
[2023-03-05T16:37:19Z] <sewn> after some update
[2023-03-05T16:37:20Z] <sewn> smh
[2023-03-05T16:37:20Z] <sewn> I have to recompile everything linked to gtk
[2023-03-05T16:37:49Z] <sewn> anything now is just gonna seg fault
[2023-03-05T17:18:57Z] <sewn> one compiling latet
[2023-03-05T17:19:26Z] <sewn> I advise anyone here to not update gtk
[2023-03-05T17:19:39Z] <midfavila> xawchads can't stop winning
[2023-03-05T17:19:49Z] <midfavila> can't break your toolkit with an update if your toolkit is never updated
[2023-03-05T17:19:53Z] <midfavila> :D
[2023-03-05T17:20:03Z] <sewn> i advise anyone here running gtk to not update gtk
[2023-03-05T17:20:12Z] * midfavila cackles
[2023-03-05T17:20:35Z] <sewn> whats a cackle
[2023-03-05T17:39:07Z] <sewn> https://github.com/madlambda/nash
[2023-03-05T17:39:11Z] <sewn> nash looks really interesting
[2023-03-05T17:39:22Z] <sewn> rc is dead and lacking features and nash seems to be a good rc like thing i guess?
[2023-03-05T17:39:34Z] <midfavila> >rc is dead
[2023-03-05T17:39:37Z] <midfavila> since when?
[2023-03-05T17:39:40Z] <sewn> its written in go so some here may not like it almost immediately
[2023-03-05T17:40:22Z] <sewn> uh last time i checked ig
[2023-03-05T17:40:42Z] <midfavila> sounds like updooter rhetoric ngl
[2023-03-05T17:40:52Z] <sewn> what?
[2023-03-05T17:41:23Z] <sewn> plan9port last updated 2007
[2023-03-05T17:42:19Z] <midfavila> oh, you meant p9port's rc
[2023-03-05T17:42:27Z] <sewn> 9base last updated 20090731
[2023-03-05T17:42:38Z] <sewn> midfavila: ye obv im not talking about the literal rc (9front) but talking about linux ports
[2023-03-05T17:42:57Z] <midfavila> i thought you meant https://github.com/rakitzis/rc
[2023-03-05T17:43:02Z] <sewn> like i said, its also lacking basic features i would expect
[2023-03-05T17:43:03Z] <sewn> im looking for a new shell that is featureful yet again
[2023-03-05T17:43:12Z] <midfavila> define "basic features"
[2023-03-05T17:43:30Z] <sewn> integrated test
[2023-03-05T17:43:52Z] <midfavila> ...now I have to ask why that's important.
[2023-03-05T17:44:11Z] <sewn> if you shell script you can immediately understand why
[2023-03-05T17:44:22Z] <sewn> basically all that test(1) can do but inside the shell
[2023-03-05T17:44:30Z] <midfavila> i do, regularly, and there's no real difference for me.
[2023-03-05T17:44:36Z] <sewn> im sure rc did this for 'simplicity's sake but this might fuck up some checks
[2023-03-05T17:44:43Z] <midfavila> anyway, rc's ~ operator is usually sufficient 
[2023-03-05T17:45:26Z] <sewn> id also love to see variable, process substitution, arithmetic expressions, and word splitting
[2023-03-05T17:45:57Z] <sewn> i dont think substitutions like ${foo##bar} are available in rc afaik
[2023-03-05T17:45:57Z] <midfavila> rc has the first two, and the latter can be solved easily with existing tools
[2023-03-05T17:46:06Z] <sewn> rc has process substitution?
[2023-03-05T17:46:22Z] <midfavila> as in "use the output of this command as one of the inputs to this command"? yes
[2023-03-05T17:46:26Z] <midfavila> <{} or something iirc
[2023-03-05T17:46:31Z] <sewn> bro wtf
[2023-03-05T17:46:37Z] <sewn> wow cool
[2023-03-05T17:48:13Z] <midfavila> but yeah as for the arithmetic operations, just use expr or bc or dc or w/e
[2023-03-05T17:48:20Z] <sewn> though i think the '{} is weird
[2023-03-05T17:48:25Z] <sewn> midfavila: what about turnary
[2023-03-05T17:48:50Z] <midfavila> pretty sure you can set what base you're using in bc but don't quote me on that
[2023-03-05T17:49:42Z] <midfavila> looks like global variable obase controls that
[2023-03-05T17:49:55Z] <midfavila> yeah ibase and obase
[2023-03-05T17:49:58Z] <midfavila> for input base and output base
[2023-03-05T17:50:52Z] <midfavila> also it's not '{} it's `{}
[2023-03-05T17:51:04Z] <sewn> even worse
[2023-03-05T17:51:18Z] <midfavila> '{} would require a lookahead parser to differentiate between subshells and string literals
[2023-03-05T17:52:09Z] <sewn> are there more up to date rc repositories you know?
[2023-03-05T17:52:33Z] <midfavila> the rakitzis one or w/e is the canonical unix port as far as i'm aware
[2023-03-05T17:53:01Z] <sewn> hm
[2023-03-05T17:53:16Z] <sewn> rc looks really really cool but i really dont want to unlearn posix sh lol
[2023-03-05T17:53:22Z] <midfavila> you don't have to?
[2023-03-05T17:53:25Z] <midfavila> i use both
[2023-03-05T17:53:43Z] <sewn> for
[2023-03-05T17:53:44Z] <sewn> what
[2023-03-05T17:53:54Z] <midfavila> generally? the same thing
[2023-03-05T17:54:04Z] <sewn> which as your interactive shell or scripting language idk
[2023-03-05T17:54:25Z] <midfavila> i prefer rc for more complex scripts because of its lower cognitive load i.e no "how many times do I need to escape this to get what I want" situations
[2023-03-05T17:54:51Z] <midfavila> but shell is better for portable scripts or those that are relatively simple, or in the case of me not being familiar with the requisite rc constructs to do what i want
[2023-03-05T17:55:01Z] <midfavila> as for interactive use, i prefer rc
[2023-03-05T17:55:15Z] <sewn> https://codeberg.org/sewn/home/src/branch/master/bin/xs
[2023-03-05T17:55:21Z] <sewn> can something like this be translated to rc
[2023-03-05T17:55:56Z] <sewn> also is something like getopts available
[2023-03-05T17:55:59Z] <midfavila> you might run into trouble creating a construct like case
[2023-03-05T17:56:05Z] <midfavila> i don't *think* rc has case
[2023-03-05T17:56:15Z] <midfavila> you can just use a chain of if-elses though /shrug
[2023-03-05T17:56:22Z] <midfavila> and getopts can be installed as a standalone program
[2023-03-05T17:56:25Z] <midfavila> there are a few implementations of it
[2023-03-05T17:56:35Z] <sewn> bleh
[2023-03-05T17:56:46Z] <sewn> midfavila: hey wdym it has switch & case
[2023-03-05T17:57:31Z] <midfavila> that's why i said "i don't think"
[2023-03-05T17:57:39Z] <midfavila> i don't really use switch statements much
[2023-03-05T17:57:43Z] <midfavila> so i never bothered to look
[2023-03-05T17:57:56Z] <sewn> ok wait, you use rc as your interactive shell, what do you use for scripts?
[2023-03-05T17:58:04Z] <midfavila> both rc and shell depending on usecase
[2023-03-05T17:58:22Z] <midfavila> if i'm familiar enough with rc to accomplish the task at hand i'll use it, otherwise i'll use shell - or if i need it to be portable.
[2023-03-05T17:58:32Z] <sewn> if you were to write a simple script you would choose rc?
[2023-03-05T17:58:48Z] <midfavila> yes, assuming i was going to be the only person to use it
[2023-03-05T17:59:22Z] <sewn> do you write mini scripts right in your terminal easy or is it difficult? for example making a complex for or while loop just for one thing you want to do very quickly right in the shell
[2023-03-05T17:59:37Z] <midfavila> rc uses less memory than even something like dash and considering i run a *lot* of small scripts in the background of my sessions, that's an important consideration
[2023-03-05T17:59:38Z] <midfavila> and no, i find that case to be particularly easy in rc
[2023-03-05T17:59:40Z] <midfavila> rc is less verbose
[2023-03-05T18:00:16Z] <sewn> what is this in rc (example usecase):
[2023-03-05T18:00:16Z] <sewn> for i in _.png; do convert $i ${i##._}.jpg; done
[2023-03-05T18:00:45Z] <sewn> oops i meant uh
[2023-03-05T18:00:51Z] <midfavila> dunno, i'm not as familiar with shell as you seem to be :v
[2023-03-05T18:00:55Z] <sewn> for i in *.png; do convert $i ${i##.*}.jpg; done
[2023-03-05T18:01:16Z] <midfavila> ${i##.*}.jpg is unfamiliar to me in particular
[2023-03-05T18:01:20Z] <sewn> midfavila: ok how do you convert all pngs in the current directory to jpg
[2023-03-05T18:01:22Z] <sewn> while keeping same file name but removing extension for jpg
[2023-03-05T18:02:35Z] <sewn> @testuser: do you know literally any shell other than mksh oksh and yash
[2023-03-05T18:03:38Z] <sewn> bruh rakitzis/rc uses configure
[2023-03-05T18:04:33Z] <midfavila> for(img in *.png){ffmpeg -i $img $img.jpg;mv $img.jpg `{echo $img.jpg|cut -f1 -d.}}  would do it
[2023-03-05T18:04:48Z] <midfavila> not elegant, but then again i'm not particularly familiar with either rc or shell compared to some people here
[2023-03-05T18:04:50Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-03-05T18:04:56Z] <sewn> i mean it looks realistic for rc
[2023-03-05T18:05:01Z] <midfavila> and if you don't like that implementation of rc, don't complain, just don't use it
[2023-03-05T18:05:09Z] <midfavila> i'm not here to be a salesman
[2023-03-05T18:05:25Z] <sewn> but is there really no like easy way to change strings with stuff like ## %% and globs with // replacement and :- :+ := stuff
[2023-03-05T18:05:41Z] <midfavila> i've already told you that i don't know, because i'm not as familiar with posix shell as you seem to be
[2023-03-05T18:05:44Z] <sewn> midfavila: is there another standalone rc implementation that is up to date
[2023-03-05T18:05:44Z] <sewn> somewhat
[2023-03-05T18:05:54Z] <sewn> blehhhhh
[2023-03-05T18:05:57Z] <midfavila> oh my god, i'm walking away-
[2023-03-05T18:06:22Z] <sewn> nooo
[2023-03-05T18:06:23Z] <midfavila> "up to date" means *nothing* as long as the program is feature complete. even if there's only a maintenance release once every couple of years, that's *fine*
[2023-03-05T18:06:29Z] <midfavila> you don't need a commit every five goddamn seconds
[2023-03-05T18:06:34Z] <midfavila> i have things to do 
[2023-03-05T18:06:47Z] <sewn> okay okay damn
[2023-03-05T18:06:49Z] <sewn> hmm, i guess there is 9base or plan9port
[2023-03-05T18:49:15Z] <rohan> bro
[2023-03-05T18:49:21Z] <rohan> need some help here
[2023-03-05T18:49:25Z] <rohan> i get back to kiss
[2023-03-05T18:49:38Z] <rohan> now my fucking alsa dont work and i dont know why
[2023-03-05T18:49:53Z] <rohan> still the same config when i used kiss months ago
[2023-03-05T18:50:04Z] <sewn> aplay -L
[2023-03-05T18:50:44Z] <rohan> dont have any cards
[2023-03-05T18:50:49Z] <rohan> thats the problem
[2023-03-05T18:51:11Z] <sewn> no kernel audio driver?
[2023-03-05T18:51:12Z] <sewn> fr
[2023-03-05T18:51:12Z] <sewn> kernel config issue it seems
[2023-03-05T18:51:26Z] <rohan> yeah but is the same config i used 
[2023-03-05T18:51:35Z] <rohan> no changes
[2023-03-05T18:51:54Z] <sewn> look at dmesg and config again
[2023-03-05T18:52:18Z] <sewn> maybe not part of audio group
[2023-03-05T18:53:55Z] <rohan> maybe
[2023-03-05T18:54:33Z] <illiliti> check /dev/snd permissions
[2023-03-05T18:55:32Z] <rohan> thats right
[2023-03-05T18:55:34Z] <rohan> my fault
[2023-03-05T18:55:40Z] <rohan> forget audio group
[2023-03-05T18:55:46Z] <sewn> lol
[2023-03-05T18:55:48Z] <rohan> anyway
[2023-03-05T18:56:26Z] <rohan> pipewire works with the repo programs like mpv?
[2023-03-05T18:56:42Z] <rohan> or all repo use only alsa?
[2023-03-05T18:56:45Z] <sewn> natively or alsa
[2023-03-05T18:57:16Z] <sewn> with pipewire-alsa this is pretty much out of the equation
[2023-03-05T18:57:41Z] <rohan> i mean
[2023-03-05T18:57:49Z] <rohan> if i build pipewire and build mpv 
[2023-03-05T18:57:58Z] <rohan> mpv will use pipewire natively?
[2023-03-05T18:58:07Z] <rohan> or still use alsa?
[2023-03-05T18:58:26Z] <testuser[m]123> rohan: jusy use pipe wire - alsa configuration
[2023-03-05T18:58:37Z] <sewn> mpv has pipewire support so yes
[2023-03-05T18:58:59Z] <rohan> good
[2023-03-05T18:59:32Z] <rohan> dont wanna to change my cards everytime i connect HDMI on tv
[2023-03-05T18:59:46Z] <sewn> fair enough
[2023-03-05T19:35:55Z] <drez> > midfavila> guess who's back to being a neet?  | wha????
[2023-03-05T19:36:15Z] <midfavila> yeah my boss fired me this morning :v
[2023-03-05T19:36:29Z] <drez> rc is cool
[2023-03-05T19:36:35Z] <drez> oh
[2023-03-05T19:36:38Z] <drez> oh...
[2023-03-05T19:36:39Z] <drez> :(
[2023-03-05T19:36:44Z] <drez> too much sleeping at work?
[2023-03-05T19:36:48Z] <midfavila> i told him that i have a surgery coming up and my availability this month will be spotty so he was just like "well, here's two weeks' severance, see you" since i'm still on probation
[2023-03-05T19:36:56Z] <midfavila> also not quite
[2023-03-05T19:37:14Z] <midfavila> i have difficulty dealing with other people and with really dynamic environments, so fast food is uh
[2023-03-05T19:37:15Z] <drez> oh dude, weak
[2023-03-05T19:37:17Z] <midfavila> *really* not my gig
[2023-03-05T19:37:26Z] <drez> you were in fast food?
[2023-03-05T19:37:29Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2023-03-05T19:37:40Z] <midfavila> for... about two months, which lines up with my previous fast food jobs
[2023-03-05T19:37:41Z] <drez> why don't you do some mechanic type of job
[2023-03-05T19:37:50Z] <drez> like a redneck job
[2023-03-05T19:37:53Z] <drez> of some kind
[2023-03-05T19:38:07Z] <midfavila> because i have basically no formal education or qualifications and the only places hiring here want either wageslaves or intermediate/senior positions
[2023-03-05T19:38:39Z] <drez> surely there is something you can do to build your cv
[2023-03-05T19:39:35Z] <drez> being talkative is probably essential
[2023-03-05T19:39:46Z] <drez> build your network or whatever they call it
[2023-03-05T19:40:29Z] <midfavila> i just need to study and develop some software that i can show off
[2023-03-05T19:40:45Z] <midfavila> and then i can probably nepotism my way into a junior development position with the help of a few people I know
[2023-03-05T19:40:54Z] <drez> can you do that as a neet?
[2023-03-05T19:41:02Z] <midfavila> why not?
[2023-03-05T19:41:11Z] <midfavila> i have literally thousands of hours of free time right now
[2023-03-05T19:41:20Z] <drez> well, you took up a job
[2023-03-05T19:41:25Z] <drez> I guess you need one
[2023-03-05T19:41:36Z] <midfavila> kinda-sorta-technically-but-not-really
[2023-03-05T19:41:42Z] <drez> I see
[2023-03-05T19:41:52Z] <midfavila> i needed the job to pay for a bed and some other stuff but
[2023-03-05T19:42:09Z] <midfavila> that's all done now, and my expenses are low enough for me to survive off of other sources of income right now
[2023-03-05T19:42:10Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-03-05T19:42:30Z] <midfavila> worst case i fall back on my plan of selling all my shit and moving out west 
[2023-03-05T19:43:18Z] <drez> gg
[2023-03-05T19:49:13Z] <midfavila> honestly as stupid of an idea as it might be, i kind of like it
[2023-03-05T19:52:21Z] <glenda> hello
[2023-03-05T19:58:29Z] <drez> midfavila, sometimes those are the coolest
[2023-03-05T19:58:36Z] <drez> anyways shutting down the pc while i brb since theres power surges
[2023-03-05T20:07:33Z] <midfavila> >glenda
[2023-03-05T20:08:23Z] <midfavila> a fellow plan 9 aficionado hmm?
[2023-03-05T20:12:45Z] <midfavila> aw
[2023-03-05T20:21:50Z] <midfavila> gotta love netsplits
[2023-03-05T22:42:45Z] <sad_plan> hi
[2023-03-05T22:50:24Z] <sad_plan> midfavila sewn rc has case, and switch :p
[2023-03-05T22:54:45Z] <sad_plan> sewn if you wanna look at how the syntax is written, in posix vs rc, as an example, Ive converted some of my scripts here: github.com/hovercats/bin. they all work for their intended purposes atleast, but theyre probably open for improvements :p
[2023-03-05T22:55:14Z] <sad_plan> ive mostly only read the manpage, and some other doc from cat-v