2020-12-08T00:25:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> Any of you guys play around with scc before?
2020-12-08T00:26:35 #kisslinux <acheam> whats scc?
2020-12-08T00:26:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> It's an alternative C compiler. "Simple C Compiler"
2020-12-08T00:26:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://git.simple-cc.org/scc/
2020-12-08T00:27:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm trying to get it to install properly but it's kinda tricky
2020-12-08T00:27:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> Builds fine though
2020-12-08T00:28:04 #kisslinux <acheam> Ah nice. Whats the purpose of looking for these smaller C compilers when you kind of need GCC on your system anyway? I've seen a lot of people looking at alternative compilers around here lately
2020-12-08T00:28:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> Well, the goal for me is to find an alternative that can replace GCC completely
2020-12-08T00:28:50 #kisslinux <acheam> o
2020-12-08T00:28:55 #kisslinux <acheam> whoops typo
2020-12-08T00:28:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> It's mostly just an exercise in screwing around for me
2020-12-08T00:29:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> but if I can find a faster, lighter compiler to replace GCC, then that's a bonus
2020-12-08T00:29:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> (and no, LLVM doesn't count... it has its own issues)
2020-12-08T00:29:30 #kisslinux <acheam> I get that :) I'd think if there was a fully featured enough replacement for gcc that can completely replace it, more people would know about it though
2020-12-08T00:29:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, that's the thing, right
2020-12-08T00:29:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> GCC is slow and bloated because of its "feature completeness"
2020-12-08T00:29:54 #kisslinux <acheam> All I can see about these other C compilers is that they only work on simple programs, and not anything else
2020-12-08T00:30:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah, that's the problem with tcc
2020-12-08T00:30:04 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah its a bit of a catch-22
2020-12-08T00:30:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> I don't need huge, complex, feature-complete programs. I just want something that can take C99 and spit out an ELF
2020-12-08T00:30:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> s/programs/compilers/
2020-12-08T00:32:00 #kisslinux <acheam> in a similar vein, what do you think about the de-Cing of linux systems? It seems that everyday as more programs are written in rust, python, go, etc and not in C, that the importance of the C compiler is decreasing albeit minorly
2020-12-08T00:32:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, I'm not a programmer, just a tinker. but I think that the "de-Cing" of linux is a meme
2020-12-08T00:32:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you actually look at all the major (read: useful) programs for *nixes and Linux in general, most of them are still written in large part or in whole in C or C++
2020-12-08T00:32:59 #kisslinux <acheam> I meant less-so linux kernel and util-linux and more so the 3rd party programs
2020-12-08T00:33:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah, that's still a meme
2020-12-08T00:33:30 #kisslinux <acheam> I agree its a meme especially "rewrite in rust", etc, but you can't deny that it is happening
2020-12-08T00:33:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> I've not run into any Go/Python/Rust program that's any better or more widely adopted than its C/C++ counterpart
2020-12-08T00:33:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I mean
2020-12-08T00:33:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's really not happening
2020-12-08T00:33:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> not in any serious capacity
2020-12-08T00:33:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's why it's a meme
2020-12-08T00:33:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> like, okay, so
2020-12-08T00:33:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> hot take
2020-12-08T00:33:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> Rust isn't a systems programming language
2020-12-08T00:34:20 #kisslinux <acheam> https://www.redox-os.org/
2020-12-08T00:34:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you want rust to be about on par with C you have to disable type safety and all the extra fancy shit that makes rust... rust
2020-12-08T00:34:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah, I've seen redox
2020-12-08T00:34:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's not all that useful. interesting proof of concept, sure
2020-12-08T00:35:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> now, I think that Rust/Go/Python/$LANG might be trendy to write userspace software in for a while. but it's not going to replace C
2020-12-08T00:37:21 #kisslinux <acheam> obviously not going to replace C, but still, looking on my (Arch) system right now, there are 89/845 packages that depend on python
2020-12-08T00:37:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've got one on my KISS setup
2020-12-08T00:37:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> that being youtube-dl
2020-12-08T00:38:30 #kisslinux <acheam> KISS (especially how you tinker with it) is a different beast though, and is very different than 99% of (gnu+)linux users use
2020-12-08T00:38:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can make the same argument with Gentoo or Arch
2020-12-08T00:39:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> most people use Debian or Fedora-based systems afaik
2020-12-08T00:39:40 #kisslinux <acheam> gentoo yes, but arch is just as bloated as ubuntu but with less packages installed by default. Same bloated systems like systemd, pulseaudio, etc
2020-12-08T00:40:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> I think Python is largely replacing what Perl used to be
2020-12-08T00:40:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> Or, well, not really "think". That's just the trend right now
2020-12-08T00:41:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> but just like perl, python isn't strictly needed for a fully-functional system
2020-12-08T00:41:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> idk
2020-12-08T00:44:15 #kisslinux <acheam> there seems to be a big move away from perl at the moment. Personally, I like python because its a really nice step up from a shell script when you need the extra power
2020-12-08T00:44:35 #kisslinux <acheam> but yeah, you don't need it on a fresh install (unless you run a RHEL-based distro)
2020-12-08T00:44:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> python is great when you need to write more granular scripts or whatever
2020-12-08T00:45:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> but the problem is that a lot of people reach for $LANG when standard UNIX utilities like sed/awk/grep/whatever, or even just common ones like ffmpeg or imagemagick, can solve the problem faster and more easily
2020-12-08T00:50:32 #kisslinux <E5ten> I didn't read the context and had so much trouble understanding what you meant cuz I thought you were using LANG to mean like the variable you set to specify your locale lol
2020-12-08T00:51:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> Rip
2020-12-08T00:51:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> also
2020-12-08T00:52:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> just forgot that gzip was part of core
2020-12-08T00:52:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> uninstalled it
2020-12-08T00:52:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> tfw
2020-12-08T00:54:11 #kisslinux <E5ten> tragic
2020-12-08T00:59:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay that's fixed
2020-12-08T00:59:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> durr
2020-12-08T01:11:06 #kisslinux <nerditup> Arch bloat is what brought me to learn to piece together what I want out of a distro (and failed) then found KISS
2020-12-08T01:12:02 #kisslinux <nerditup> I got so fed up with the number of dependencies for what I thought would be minimal packages
2020-12-08T01:12:18 #kisslinux <acheam> I have found kiss but haven't been able to make it my main, just running it in docker and in VMs. With kiss-flatpak I may be able to get by though
2020-12-08T01:12:41 #kisslinux <acheam> but not worth the risk of installing it on my main machine, on which I depend 100%
2020-12-08T01:12:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> building a static python has gotta be the biggest bitch in the universe frfr
2020-12-08T01:13:27 #kisslinux <acheam> nerditup, I get that, for me, its the wayland deps when you only need xorg and stuff like that. At the end of the day for me at least, its just a few more megs ram and a bit more storage space used
2020-12-08T01:31:09 #kisslinux <nerditup> dilyn: lol
2020-12-08T01:31:54 #kisslinux <nerditup> Python has always been ...fun to manage
2020-12-08T01:33:39 #kisslinux <nerditup> acheam: exactly, the wayland deps for X were the exact reason I started questioning what I was doing in Arch
2020-12-08T01:36:31 #kisslinux <nerditup> I wanted to use OpenBSD on my laptop, but my WiFi adapted wasn't supported in my Dell XPS
2020-12-08T01:36:56 #kisslinux <nerditup> Adapter*
2020-12-08T01:38:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> it just keeps trying to build the modules statically :S python is trash
2020-12-08T01:38:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> I might use redox for 1) the meme and 2) the license
2020-12-08T01:45:55 #kisslinux <acheam> nerditup, what adapter do you have? I replaced the card in my XPS9360 from a qualcom (ath10k firmware on linux) to an intel (iwifi firmware on linux)
2020-12-08T02:03:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> ix.io/2H6j
2020-12-08T02:03:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> fuck off python
2020-12-08T02:03:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> do not mock me
2020-12-08T02:36:52 #kisslinux <nerditup> acheam: yeah, I've still got the Qualcomm one
2020-12-08T02:55:55 #kisslinux <micr0> acheam im using the ath10k default wireless and it seems to be working fine on kiss for me
2020-12-08T03:06:23 #kisslinux <micr0> n
2020-12-08T03:11:48 #kisslinux <mcf> dilyn: i think you just need to edit Setup.local to add the modules to either a *static* or *disabled* section so that it doesn't try to build them as modules
2020-12-08T03:12:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> see I thought that too
2020-12-08T03:12:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> but ./configure adds a LDSHARED line to $CC that you have to disable
2020-12-08T03:12:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> ty tho
2020-12-08T03:12:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> now we just need to identify why it isn't building _ctypes
2020-12-08T03:14:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> looks like sabotage encountered a similar problem...?
2020-12-08T03:14:56 #kisslinux <mcf> hmm, it worked for me. LDSHARED only seems to be used for the sharedmods target
2020-12-08T03:15:09 #kisslinux <mcf> what does your Setup.local look like?
2020-12-08T03:15:16 #kisslinux <acheam> nerditup, I replaced it with an Intel 9260 which is supported on a few BSDs but not all of them. In retrospect, I should have gone with something older for better compatability. One thing to remember is that the BSDs don't have AC wireless (although there is work being done on it) so whatever you use even if compatabile will only have wireless N speed/range
2020-12-08T03:15:42 #kisslinux <acheam> micr0, yeah iwlwifi seems to work great everywhere
2020-12-08T03:16:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> http://ix.io/2H6D more a "spray and pray" method rn than a fine tooth comb for picking modules
2020-12-08T03:17:10 #kisslinux <mcf> and what errors are you getting from the build?
2020-12-08T03:18:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> well python builds *now* it just doesn't build _ctypes, which meson needs
2020-12-08T03:18:23 #kisslinux <mcf> i don't see ctypes in your Setup.local
2020-12-08T03:18:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> presumably it's because of missing libffi but that's unclear here
2020-12-08T03:18:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah it's not in the regular Setup either
2020-12-08T03:19:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> shouldn't be hard to add I just don't want to have this Setup.local file xD
2020-12-08T03:19:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> ah well
2020-12-08T03:19:54 #kisslinux <mcf> the commented stuff in regular setup is outdated. you need to look at setup.py. search for instances of Extension
2020-12-08T03:21:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> oh jeez
2020-12-08T03:21:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> why are they like that
2020-12-08T03:24:15 #kisslinux <mcf> not sure if its useful, but pkg/python/modules.lua in oasis contains a complete list of the extensions that setup.py detects
2020-12-08T03:25:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> useful to know it exists at the very least :)
2020-12-08T03:25:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah that looks similar to what I found, so now we just hope it works...
2020-12-08T03:27:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> that the regular setup is outdated makes sense because it claims _md5 and _ssl can't coexist, and yet without _md5 the build fails :v
2020-12-08T03:27:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://github.com/SlimeQ/mud-shell
2020-12-08T03:27:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> totally unrelated, but here's a novelty shell you guys might find cool
2020-12-08T03:29:52 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila, how much free time do you have?
2020-12-08T03:30:00 #kisslinux <nerditup> To clarify the ath10k drivers for Linux work great for my Qualcomm card
2020-12-08T03:30:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> Uhhhh... too much
2020-12-08T03:30:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> like half my day is unoccupied usually :v
2020-12-08T03:30:27 #kisslinux <nerditup> It was OpenBSD specifically that didn't support ath10k
2020-12-08T03:31:10 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah. Just be careful because each BSD has a slightly different overlap of what wifi chipsets they support. I used ath10k for a while before I wanted to try out BSD more
2020-12-08T03:31:17 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila, :O
2020-12-08T03:32:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's what happens when you're lucky enough to be a part-time student with an all-inclusive scholarship
2020-12-08T03:32:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> but honestly, I really need to find more stuff to do beyond tech
2020-12-08T03:32:27 #kisslinux <mcf> dilyn: are you sure that meson needs ctypes? i just grepped through the source and it only imports that on windows
2020-12-08T03:32:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> been thinking of picking fencing back up
2020-12-08T03:32:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> I mean it spit out that error almost immediately during build but I could very well be an idiot
2020-12-08T03:33:04 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila, as a full-time student literally with a textbook in my arms as I type this, im very envious
2020-12-08T03:33:13 #kisslinux * midfavila snickers
2020-12-08T03:33:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> ah lmfao '?/usr/lib/python3.9/site-packages/setuptools/windows_support.py" import ctypes
2020-12-08T03:33:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> bite me meson
2020-12-08T03:33:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> Meson needs to freeze in the ninth circle
2020-12-08T03:33:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> I need to spend more time studying my textbooks actually...
2020-12-08T03:33:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> classes are such a waste of time rn
2020-12-08T03:35:26 #kisslinux <acheam> gotta make the most of em though
2020-12-08T03:35:45 #kisslinux <acheam> were at least paritally in person, which makes the virtual classes a little more important
2020-12-08T03:35:55 #kisslinux <mcf> dilyn: ah, might be a recent change to make it not required: https://github.com/mesonbuild/meson/commit/7e58f33376119b53e01616139ad9354ce9cfe003#diff-949b6e543dd80739712d4a06d97811d89f1b30e19976928b84679a7adfa7bba3L25
2020-12-08T03:35:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> My college is entirely online, thank god
2020-12-08T03:36:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> I can't stand in-person schooling
2020-12-08T03:36:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> Even when I was in high school it was just... ugh.
2020-12-08T03:36:33 #kisslinux <mcf> dilyn: what meson version are you using?
2020-12-08T03:36:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> 0.56.0
2020-12-08T03:37:04 #kisslinux <mcf> hmm, that one should have that commit
2020-12-08T03:44:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> it doesn't crash in wyverkiss but the import definitely crashes in this chroot
2020-12-08T05:11:23 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> hi
2020-12-08T06:01:13 #kisslinux <sad_plan[m]> <aarng "blocking as in a program which r"> Alright, in any case, if it does kill itself, how does one block it?
2020-12-08T06:02:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> xorg just exits if it successfully launches and nothing is running
2020-12-08T06:02:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> exec just makes xorg stay up
2020-12-08T06:47:36 #kisslinux <sad_plan[m]> Ok. Putting exec sowm at the bottom worked great. Now feh boots up along with sx. Pywal however didnt.
2020-12-08T12:37:13 #kisslinux <soliwilos> sad_plan[m]: Tried something like this? I'm assuming you're tinkering with .xinitc? http://ix.io/2H92
2020-12-08T12:37:52 #kisslinux <soliwilos> s/.xinitc/.xinitrc/
2020-12-08T13:31:09 #kisslinux <sad_plan[m]> <soliwilos "sad_plan: Tried something like t"> Sx actually, but yeah, same thing just lighter.
2020-12-08T14:12:52 #kisslinux <sad_plan[m]> Alright, I did some testing. I tried to crosscheck with using bash, instead of /bin/sh, and using bashrc to configure it, works fine. Pywal persists across reboot, and terminals. However, putting the same config line for pywal in /etc/profile, does not work. Neither does putting it in ~/.profile.
2020-12-08T14:12:53 #kisslinux <sad_plan[m]> Afaik those are the config files for /bin/sh that kiss comes with, correct? It has atleast worked with my other configs to put it in /etc/profile
2020-12-08T15:56:24 #kisslinux <aarng> sad_plan[m]: read this: http://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.3.2/neutrino/user_guide/environment.html
2020-12-08T15:56:46 #kisslinux <aarng> it's about korn shell but applies to busybox ash too
2020-12-08T15:56:56 #kisslinux <aarng> especially the bit about `ENV`
2020-12-08T16:14:39 #kisslinux <sad_plan[m]> Cool. Ill check it out 😀
2020-12-08T17:48:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> qt.io/blog/qt-6.0-released
2020-12-08T17:48:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> the race begins smh
2020-12-08T17:52:12 #kisslinux <acheam> when do you think general adoption will begin?
2020-12-08T17:52:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> probably when 6.1 releases lmfao
2020-12-08T17:52:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> they switched to cmake. I'm... enthused, by this, I guess?
2020-12-08T17:52:51 #kisslinux <dilyn> qmake is hell so it'll be nice
2020-12-08T17:53:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> but they changed so many things I have no idea what percentage of qt apps have actually adapted to it
2020-12-08T17:53:42 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah. Looking in the Arch repos, there are 579 packages mentioning qt5 and only 46 mentioning qt6. Given that we still have mainstream programs using gtk2, there is precedence to suggest that this will take some tiiime
2020-12-08T17:55:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> I can't tell if they want me to directly configure with cmake or if they want me to use this configure script that interfaces with it
2020-12-08T17:55:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> smh
2020-12-08T18:04:38 #kisslinux <onodera> I almost ported blender & depends to kiss :)
2020-12-08T18:05:29 #kisslinux <onodera> compiling blender now, hopefully it doesn't fail
2020-12-08T18:05:44 #kisslinux <acheam> good luck! Thats gotta take a while to compile
2020-12-08T18:06:35 #kisslinux <onodera> its quite a small program for how ridiculously much it offers
2020-12-08T18:06:58 #kisslinux <onodera> you can basically use it as a 3d, sculpting, rendering, composition, painting and video editing program
2020-12-08T18:08:16 #kisslinux <acheam> Interesting. I wonder how they've managed to acheive that, must be very modular
2020-12-08T18:12:47 #kisslinux <micr0> niiice onodera
2020-12-08T18:14:14 #kisslinux <micr0> only thing i really miss with kiss is fusion 360
2020-12-08T18:16:33 #kisslinux <micr0> i can try it in a vm i guess
2020-12-08T18:22:31 #kisslinux <onodera> is there a way to easily sort the depends file
2020-12-08T18:25:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> sort depends > d; mv d depends
2020-12-08T18:27:36 #kisslinux <onodera> thats easy
2020-12-08T18:27:38 #kisslinux <onodera> thanks lol
2020-12-08T18:45:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> gotta love those oneliners
2020-12-08T18:50:03 #kisslinux <acheam> Thank you busybox/coreutils!
2020-12-08T19:05:36 #kisslinux <micr0> `sort depends | sponge depends` also does the trick
2020-12-08T19:05:47 #kisslinux <micr0> but you will need sponge, which is from 'moreutils', which I just packaged quickly
2020-12-08T19:35:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> qt6 builds :v the real trick is gonna be figuring out how to build webengine
2020-12-08T19:35:33 #kisslinux <E5ten> is qt6 backwards-compatible with 5? like will falkon work with it?
2020-12-08T19:39:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> well they started labeling apis and stuff depcrecated in 5.15
2020-12-08T19:39:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> haven't heard anything from kde about compatability but from what i've gathered the changes are nonbreaking, at least in general...
2020-12-08T19:40:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> It will be tested before i submit a pr ofc
2020-12-08T19:40:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> ls
2020-12-08T19:40:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> ope