[2022-08-25T01:18:24Z] <midfavila> to whoever mentioned tinyx a while back, you're a king
[2022-08-25T01:18:43Z] <midfavila> somehow i fucked my xorg setup and i'm currently relying on it
[2022-08-25T03:17:17Z] <testuser[m]12> Hi
[2022-08-25T03:41:47Z] <wael[m]> o/
[2022-08-25T03:49:11Z] <ioraff> hi
[2022-08-25T04:33:44Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: it was me. and youre very welcome. I noticed you can also get rid of libXdmcp
[2022-08-25T04:34:28Z] <sad_plan> you just have to use --disable-dmcp and --disable-xdm-auth-1
[2022-08-25T04:36:08Z] <sad_plan> also; midfavila http://0x0.st/o9x9.txt nm of libc.a like you mentioned earlier
[2022-08-25T04:53:12Z] <wael[m]> is tinyx a complete or a minimal replacement of X?
[2022-08-25T05:00:05Z] <sad_plan> both more or less. im sure theres stuff to do with it, but its working fine on my end. I dont miss xorg at all really
[2022-08-25T05:09:23Z] <wael[m]> yeah for me i cant really get tinyx working probably because of fonts or something, it just loads into the framebuffer than just dies
[2022-08-25T05:12:41Z] <sad_plan> do you get any errors? like missing font alias?
[2022-08-25T05:13:58Z] <wael[m]> could not init font path element usr share fonts 100dpi something something
[2022-08-25T05:14:00Z] <wael[m]> then cant deallocate console 1
[2022-08-25T05:14:09Z] <wael[m]> i have X running and it just skips to it
[2022-08-25T05:14:38Z] <wael[m]> https://termbin.com/sc8i
[2022-08-25T05:15:03Z] <wael[m]> this is the tinyX startup script from someone im using
[2022-08-25T05:15:17Z] <midfavila> wael[m] tinyx is fine if you need *just* an X server
[2022-08-25T05:15:26Z] <midfavila> i'm thinking of forking it once I have more experience
[2022-08-25T05:15:31Z] <sad_plan> you have to do a sed for tinyx to work. it doesnt replace /bin/Xorg
[2022-08-25T05:15:40Z] <wael[m]> Sfbdev
[2022-08-25T05:15:44Z] <wael[m]> s/S/X
[2022-08-25T05:15:49Z] <midfavila> incorporate a few select extensions and maybe some stuff from xenocara idk
[2022-08-25T05:16:02Z] <midfavila> at the very least I think xrandr is reasonable
[2022-08-25T05:16:14Z] <sad_plan> wael[m]:  look at the readme https://github.com/ehawkvu/kiss-xorg/tree/master/xorg/tinyx
[2022-08-25T05:16:28Z] <wael[m]> got it sir
[2022-08-25T05:16:32Z] <sad_plan> or do as I did, create a separate one for tinyx
[2022-08-25T05:17:01Z] <wael[m]> > Get the font in .bdf format.
[2022-08-25T05:17:01Z] <wael[m]> Im sorry what
[2022-08-25T05:17:06Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: I would rewrite the make stuff. which
[2022-08-25T05:17:38Z] <wael[m]> can tinyx not do ttf fonts at all?
[2022-08-25T05:17:44Z] <midfavila> tinyx can do ttf
[2022-08-25T05:17:54Z] <midfavila> just not directly like X can
[2022-08-25T05:18:03Z] <sad_plan> wael[m]: nevermind that, just build the package from there, and run the sed on sx. once you ran the sed, you wont be able to launch X anymore, as youve modified sx. hence why I made a separate script for it
[2022-08-25T05:18:06Z] <midfavila> it's passed to your applications to handle, which they usually do anyway
[2022-08-25T05:18:10Z] <sad_plan> tinyx does ttf yes
[2022-08-25T05:18:22Z] <midfavila> although your font scaling is gonna be wonky
[2022-08-25T05:18:30Z] <sad_plan> curl -F'file=@/bin/sxfb' 0x0.st
[2022-08-25T05:18:35Z] <sad_plan> ffff
[2022-08-25T05:18:35Z] <wael[m]> simply launching the modified sx still wont work kinda
[2022-08-25T05:18:45Z] <sad_plan> http://0x0.st/o9xW.sh
[2022-08-25T05:18:46Z] <midfavila> lmao rip 
[2022-08-25T05:18:50Z] <wael[m]> wait it uses the framebuffer right
[2022-08-25T05:18:52Z] <sad_plan> use this one
[2022-08-25T05:18:55Z] <sad_plan> it does
[2022-08-25T05:18:58Z] <midfavila> Xvfb does, ye-
[2022-08-25T05:19:02Z] * midfavila huffs
[2022-08-25T05:19:04Z] <wael[m]> i should probably nvidia-drm modeset=1 then
[2022-08-25T05:19:24Z] <midfavila> anyway sad_plan what were you saying about the make stuff?
[2022-08-25T05:19:30Z] <midfavila> is it really as simple as that?
[2022-08-25T05:19:43Z] <wael[m]> ............it works
[2022-08-25T05:19:55Z] <sad_plan> the makefile is a disaster. its one makefile which runs multiple makefiles. not to even mention the use of autotools
[2022-08-25T05:20:12Z] <midfavila> unfortunately that kind of stuff is standard
[2022-08-25T05:20:14Z] <midfavila> :X
[2022-08-25T05:20:22Z] <sad_plan> wael[m]: great, now go run all your favorite tools, and be amazed that they just still works :p
[2022-08-25T05:20:33Z] <sad_plan> I knooow. and its still horribe. I hate it
[2022-08-25T05:20:36Z] <wael[m]> well dwm doesnt launhc
[2022-08-25T05:20:48Z] <sad_plan> strange
[2022-08-25T05:20:57Z] <midfavila> it'll be interesting to see if tinyx can be compiled with tcc
[2022-08-25T05:21:11Z] <midfavila> i've spent the past few hours working on my fork's next release
[2022-08-25T05:21:34Z] <midfavila> most of core can self-host and there's five or six dozen packages that are confirmed working, with more otw
[2022-08-25T05:21:54Z] <midfavila> need to replace alsa-* with tinyalsa, and if X.Org can be replaced with TinyX, well...
[2022-08-25T05:22:01Z] <midfavila> that's an entire system sans GCC
[2022-08-25T05:22:19Z] <wael[m]> is it possible to log tinyx? the errors/logs dont tell me anything at all, i cant launch dwm or terminals using the default keybinds, as i tried tinyx before and it WILL NOT accept modkey (super key)
[2022-08-25T05:24:19Z] <midfavila> fek
[2022-08-25T05:24:29Z] <midfavila> looks like X11 is held back by the same stuff the rest of the distribution is
[2022-08-25T05:24:31Z] <midfavila> lack of perl support
[2022-08-25T05:25:08Z] <midfavila> once perl and by extension autotools and libtool are up, things will become a lot nicer
[2022-08-25T05:29:58Z] <sad_plan> wael[m]: if you have super key binded, those wont work. just fyi.
[2022-08-25T05:30:11Z] <sad_plan> but no, theres not much logs afaik
[2022-08-25T05:30:16Z] <sad_plan> try a different wm perhaps
[2022-08-25T05:30:30Z] <midfavila> anyway i'm going to head off for the night
[2022-08-25T05:30:47Z] <midfavila> if any of you guys are willing, i'd appreciate someone taking a peek at building perl with tcc
[2022-08-25T05:30:56Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: what about sndio aswell with tinyalsa? its what I use
[2022-08-25T05:31:05Z] <midfavila> i'll have to look at it
[2022-08-25T05:31:12Z] <midfavila> sndio is what obsd uses right?
[2022-08-25T05:31:12Z] <wael[m]> sad_plan: wtf why cant i use super key
[2022-08-25T05:31:12Z] <sad_plan> no alsa-lib/alsa-util at all
[2022-08-25T05:31:25Z] <midfavila> wael[m] tinyx reads directly from the kernel
[2022-08-25T05:31:31Z] <sad_plan> unfortunatly no, tinyx doesnt seem to recognize it
[2022-08-25T05:31:31Z] <midfavila> it doesn't have input abstractions
[2022-08-25T05:31:38Z] <wael[m]> also with ffmpeg, x11grab lags the shit out of tinyx
[2022-08-25T05:31:45Z] <midfavila> that's why tinyx doesn't need drivers 
[2022-08-25T05:31:49Z] <midfavila> and yeah, uh, of course it does
[2022-08-25T05:31:54Z] <wael[m]> how come
[2022-08-25T05:31:55Z] <midfavila> it's not really accelerated 
[2022-08-25T05:31:58Z] <midfavila> at least afaik
[2022-08-25T05:32:09Z] <midfavila> but someone please correct me if i'm wrong
[2022-08-25T05:32:18Z] <sad_plan> theres no hardware accelerateration afaik anyway
[2022-08-25T05:32:18Z] <wael[m]> ok maybe i should stick with X
[2022-08-25T05:32:19Z] <midfavila> tl;dr tinyx trades performance for compatibility
[2022-08-25T05:32:28Z] <midfavila> and yes, you should, if you want lots of extra features and decent performance
[2022-08-25T05:32:37Z] <sad_plan> ^
[2022-08-25T05:32:38Z] <midfavila> tinyx excels only in portability, memory and disk usage
[2022-08-25T05:32:41Z] <wael[m]> what about Xenocara then
[2022-08-25T05:32:46Z] <midfavila> good luck porting it
[2022-08-25T05:32:52Z] <midfavila> but also it's just hardened x.org
[2022-08-25T05:33:02Z] <wael[m]> nvm
[2022-08-25T05:33:07Z] <midfavila> :p 
[2022-08-25T05:33:14Z] <midfavila> anyway i need to get to bed for real now
[2022-08-25T05:33:22Z] <midfavila> remind me about sndio next time you see me, sad_plan
[2022-08-25T05:33:25Z] <midfavila> i'll definitely look into it
[2022-08-25T05:33:34Z] <wael[m]> what about OSS4 tho?
[2022-08-25T05:33:49Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: will do
[2022-08-25T06:31:02Z] <sad_plan> noocsharp: seeing as you stopped using kiss. what did you end up with instead? oasis? and why?
[2022-08-25T07:16:44Z] <wael[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/wwsiaf/writing_a_wayland_compositor_is_much_harder_than/
[2022-08-25T07:16:52Z] <wael[m]> very interesting
[2022-08-25T07:53:19Z] <phoebos> testuser[m]12: you adopted file but didn't take it off the tracker
[2022-08-25T07:54:01Z] <sad_plan> I adopted file
[2022-08-25T07:54:36Z] <sad_plan> wait. no he did before me
[2022-08-25T07:54:38Z] <sad_plan> nevermind then
[2022-08-25T09:09:18Z] <virutalmachineus> <wael[m]> "https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/..." <- so it's not bloated?
[2022-08-25T10:09:11Z] <sad_plan> does anyone knows why exacly toybox complains about line 4 on inittab? Ive been trying to get toybox's init to work, buuut nope
[2022-08-25T10:09:40Z] <sad_plan> line 4 is the respawn runsvdir command, starting runit. respawn is a supported command on init afaik, so I dont get it
[2022-08-25T10:10:06Z] <wael[m]> the respawn:runsvdir ?
[2022-08-25T10:10:17Z] <sad_plan> yepp
[2022-08-25T10:10:38Z] <wael[m]> if runsvdir just launches services in /var/service, why not just add the services to inittab lol
[2022-08-25T10:21:01Z] <sad_plan> if the respawn command is the issue, the tty probably wont start either.. ill have to doublecheck. I might have to create a bootscript for both, like we used to on sinit etc :p
[2022-08-25T10:21:15Z] <virutalmachineus> does toybox better?
[2022-08-25T10:21:29Z] <wael[m]> yes
[2022-08-25T10:21:58Z] <virutalmachineus>  * is toybox better?
[2022-08-25T10:22:32Z] <virutalmachineus> weal do you use wayland or xorg?
[2022-08-25T10:22:55Z] <wael[m]> i dont believe weal is here
[2022-08-25T10:23:54Z] <virutalmachineus> wael?
[2022-08-25T10:24:04Z] <wael[m]> yes what about him
[2022-08-25T10:24:29Z] <sad_plan> nope. complained about not being able to run /lib/rc.boot instead
[2022-08-25T10:24:30Z] <sad_plan> hm
[2022-08-25T10:24:38Z] <wael[m]> aw
[2022-08-25T10:25:21Z] <sad_plan> virutalmachineus: toybox is smaller in any case, but less complete
[2022-08-25T10:25:42Z] <sad_plan> so wether its *better* is probably subjectiv..
[2022-08-25T10:25:50Z] <wael[m]> wait toybox comes with no shell right
[2022-08-25T10:26:05Z] <sad_plan> currently no. but toysh is planned
[2022-08-25T10:26:15Z] <sad_plan> there is some code on toysh, but it doesnt work
[2022-08-25T10:26:29Z] <wael[m]> so if im gonna switch to toybox id have to package busybox ash on its own them hm
[2022-08-25T10:26:43Z] <testuser[m]12> use yash or ksh
[2022-08-25T10:26:55Z] <sad_plan> no, you could just use dash, bash, zsh, oksh yash, mksh etc...
[2022-08-25T10:27:00Z] <sad_plan> lots of shells to choose from
[2022-08-25T10:27:12Z] <sad_plan> not all work as expected with kiss though.
[2022-08-25T10:27:12Z] <wael[m]> i used to use yash/mksh/oksh before i switched to kiss but i just used the default shell (ash) and ive been quite happy with it
[2022-08-25T10:27:30Z] <sad_plan> I belive i.e. mksh has some globbing issue with kiss. Ive never tried it with kiss though..
[2022-08-25T10:27:50Z] <wael[m]> the tab completion sucks tho so yeah i should probably switch to a better shell
[2022-08-25T10:28:17Z] <sad_plan> ash is fine I suppose, but I currently use oksh instead. vi feature is pretty neat. I used to use zsh, but I find it to be a tad bit big..
[2022-08-25T10:28:29Z] <wael[m]> inb4 yash isnt in community repo
[2022-08-25T10:28:33Z] <sad_plan> zsh has really nice completetion, but is waaay bigger..
[2022-08-25T10:28:53Z] <wael[m]> zsh is just too big for me i dont ever want to use it
[2022-08-25T10:29:04Z] <cennedy> hi Im new here rn I'm installing kiss on my machine and I got error when compiling kernel
[2022-08-25T10:29:22Z] <sad_plan> iirc carbs has yash packaged. in any case, yash isnt hard to package anyway
[2022-08-25T10:29:29Z] <wael[m]> whats the error?
[2022-08-25T10:30:09Z] <wael[m]> sad_plan: i think i will have to use yash, i really like the way i can select with tab complete rather than to have to type the name manually
[2022-08-25T10:30:24Z] <cennedy> Warning: Kernel ABI header at tools/arch/x86/lib/insn.c differs from latest version at arch/x86/lib/insn.c
[2022-08-25T10:30:27Z] <phoebos> cennedy: https://kisscommunity.bvnf.space/FAQ/#010 might help
[2022-08-25T10:30:39Z] <cennedy> Warning: Kernel ABI header at tools/arch/x86/lib/inat.c differs from latest version at arch/x86/lib/inat.c
[2022-08-25T10:30:42Z] <phoebos> that's a warning, not an error
[2022-08-25T10:30:45Z] <wael[m]> thats normal
[2022-08-25T10:31:33Z] <sad_plan> wael[m]: you do that. yash is a great option anyway
[2022-08-25T10:31:34Z] <cennedy> But it's canceling
[2022-08-25T10:31:51Z] <phoebos> post the full log
[2022-08-25T10:32:15Z] <phoebos> on a pastebin
[2022-08-25T10:32:27Z] <wael[m]> or pipe it to nc termbin.com 9999
[2022-08-25T10:33:32Z] <cennedy> How I can paste it
[2022-08-25T10:33:42Z] <cennedy> It's on my pc
[2022-08-25T10:34:23Z] <cennedy> Which kernel version should I use
[2022-08-25T10:34:28Z] <cennedy> For best experience
[2022-08-25T10:34:55Z] <phoebos> make >log 2>&1; nc termbin 9999 <log
[2022-08-25T10:35:05Z] <phoebos> whichever you want
[2022-08-25T10:53:04Z] <wael[m]> sad_plan: holy shit i love yash 
[2022-08-25T10:53:29Z] <wael[m]> bit sad i cant do tab select with oksh/mksh tho 
[2022-08-25T10:53:47Z] <sad_plan> great
[2022-08-25T10:54:04Z] <sad_plan> there is a way to do it iirc. but Im not sure how. im sure you can script it or something instead
[2022-08-25T10:54:38Z] <wael[m]> i did try to incoprerate commands inside keybindings but i could never get that to ever work
[2022-08-25T11:00:01Z] <sad_plan> hm
[2022-08-25T11:00:37Z] <wael[m]> last time i used mksh it was so painful to do commands inside keybindings
[2022-08-25T11:01:28Z] <sad_plan> Ive never really done that too much, except in zsh, but its way different. lots of docs available, so its mostly just copy/paste at that point..
[2022-08-25T11:03:32Z] <wael[m]> https://github.com/seankhl/fzf-mksh/blob/master/key-bindings.mksh
[2022-08-25T11:03:34Z] <wael[m]> this is an example
[2022-08-25T11:06:39Z] <sad_plan> ah. somewhat reminds me of the zsh functions actually
[2022-08-25T11:38:09Z] <sad_plan> has anyone built gtk4 on kiss?
[2022-08-25T12:22:40Z] <Ogromny> cennedy: ma man !
[2022-08-25T15:03:28Z] <cennedy> Hi I have question
[2022-08-25T15:03:39Z] <cennedy> When I want to build llvm package
[2022-08-25T15:03:48Z] <cennedy> It says
[2022-08-25T15:03:56Z] <cennedy> Targeting amdgpu
[2022-08-25T15:04:03Z] <cennedy> Targeting x86
[2022-08-25T15:04:11Z] <cennedy> But I have Intel hd graphics 2500
[2022-08-25T15:04:16Z] <cennedy> And 64 bit pc
[2022-08-25T15:06:13Z] <testuser[m]12> I think we should get rid of kiss maintainer and add maintainer file cuz it's useless when cloning a repo with --depth=1
[2022-08-25T15:07:41Z] <cennedy> Is it error bad thing or not
[2022-08-25T15:08:04Z] <cennedy> Cuz I said I have Intel gpu but it's targeting amdgpu
[2022-08-25T15:24:05Z] <testuser[m]12> cennedy cuz shintel doesn't have a lolvm backend in mesa
[2022-08-25T15:24:16Z] <testuser[m]12> doesn't matter
[2022-08-25T15:53:12Z] <midfavila> oh, hey sad_plan
[2022-08-25T15:53:17Z] <midfavila> good timing, I just got on
[2022-08-25T15:53:26Z] <sad_plan> Hey midfavila 
[2022-08-25T15:53:31Z] <sad_plan> Hah, lol great
[2022-08-25T15:54:28Z] <sad_plan> testuser[m]12: with a maintainer file, do you just mean a file containing an email, name or url etc?
[2022-08-25T15:56:01Z] <sad_plan> midfavila, look into sndio. Now Ive reminded you of it. Lol
[2022-08-25T15:56:25Z] <midfavila> already pulled it up :p 
[2022-08-25T15:56:30Z] <phoebos> sndio is nice for some applications
[2022-08-25T15:56:31Z] <sad_plan> Also, I found a other project today. A hotkey deamon. ~200 sloc. Configs similarly to suckless tools
[2022-08-25T15:56:36Z] <sad_plan> Nice
[2022-08-25T15:56:37Z] <phoebos> it doesn't provide a lot
[2022-08-25T15:56:50Z] <midfavila> sauce, sad_plan?
[2022-08-25T15:56:51Z] <sad_plan> Which arent it nice for phoebos?
[2022-08-25T15:57:00Z] <sad_plan> Just a sec mid
[2022-08-25T15:57:08Z] <phoebos> i tried implementing uxn's audio with sndio
[2022-08-25T15:57:26Z] <sad_plan> https://github.com/phenax/shotkey midfavila 
[2022-08-25T15:57:56Z] <phoebos> sndio only works with the paradigm of providing a buffer, seeing how much was successfully played and then providing the next buffer
[2022-08-25T15:58:17Z] <phoebos> fine if you're playing a file
[2022-08-25T15:58:45Z] <phoebos> annoying if you're synthesising stuff in [real]-time
[2022-08-25T15:59:24Z] <sad_plan> That I can understand. Sndio is really simple
[2022-08-25T16:07:55Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2022-08-25T16:08:02Z] <midfavila> tinyx seems promising with tcc
[2022-08-25T16:08:23Z] <midfavila> looks like it's able to get most of the way through the source tree before hitting a (seemingly) minor syntax error
[2022-08-25T16:08:51Z] <midfavila> dunno about its dependencies though
[2022-08-25T16:09:19Z] <sad_plan> promising indeed for smaller compilers. ive been thinking about trying a different one aswell
[2022-08-25T16:09:51Z] <midfavila> i can send you a tarball for my current system if you want to skip some of the bootstrap
[2022-08-25T16:09:57Z] <midfavila> (assuming you want to try tcc)
[2022-08-25T16:10:27Z] <sad_plan> yeah, tcc has been on my mind. aswell as cproc. just give me a link or something
[2022-08-25T16:10:35Z] <midfavila> one secco
[2022-08-25T16:11:42Z] <midfavila> http://0x0.st/o9g5.tar.gz
[2022-08-25T16:11:52Z] <midfavila> you'll want to enter rc after chroot'ing
[2022-08-25T16:11:57Z] <midfavila> the standard shell is dash without readline
[2022-08-25T16:12:25Z] <midfavila> userland is suckless with minor supplements, KISS_DL should be set to axel
[2022-08-25T16:12:27Z] <midfavila> uhhhh
[2022-08-25T16:12:35Z] <midfavila> only other thing of note is that the standard editor is se
[2022-08-25T16:12:49Z] <midfavila> but you should be able to compile mg or something if you'd rather
[2022-08-25T16:13:25Z] <testuser[m]12> sad_plan: name/email
[2022-08-25T16:13:41Z] <midfavila> >forward slash as separator
[2022-08-25T16:13:43Z] <midfavila> how un-unix
[2022-08-25T16:13:48Z] <midfavila> we use colons in this chat
[2022-08-25T16:14:17Z] <sad_plan> nice. ill check it out once I get back on my laptop
[2022-08-25T16:15:09Z] <midfavila> kk
[2022-08-25T16:15:21Z] <midfavila> it's kind of shit because i haven't shown it to anyone else
[2022-08-25T16:15:24Z] <midfavila> so pls be gentle
[2022-08-25T16:15:25Z] <midfavila> uwu
[2022-08-25T16:17:32Z] <midfavila> but yeah rn there's maybe ~150 packages that work oob
[2022-08-25T16:17:36Z] <sad_plan> no worries C:
[2022-08-25T16:17:52Z] <sad_plan> thats a higher number than expected tbh
[2022-08-25T16:18:04Z] <midfavila> tcc is shockingly capable
[2022-08-25T16:18:50Z] <midfavila> i'm gonna spend some time today going through and sorting the rest of my repo 
[2022-08-25T16:19:08Z] <midfavila> i figure most of it will work just fine, considering it's basically just C
[2022-08-25T16:19:22Z] <midfavila> maybe a few perl programs here and there that'll require a binary from my host machine
[2022-08-25T16:21:48Z] <phoebos> why not name <email>
[2022-08-25T16:22:00Z] <midfavila> not as easy to parse
[2022-08-25T16:22:05Z] <midfavila> names might include spaces
[2022-08-25T16:22:32Z] <midfavila> name:email is better afaic
[2022-08-25T16:29:30Z] <sad_plan> sounds great. are you using any patches for using s/ubase with linux btw? or does it work out of the box?
[2022-08-25T16:29:58Z] <midfavila> works oob
[2022-08-25T16:30:13Z] <midfavila> i've dailied the suckless utils basically since day one on kiss
[2022-08-25T16:30:35Z] <midfavila> with a few exceptions (which I've already dealt with) you can even compile a kernel with 'em
[2022-08-25T16:30:51Z] <sad_plan> yeah, ive tried them couple times, but had some issues, so always reverted back to busybox really..
[2022-08-25T16:31:07Z] <midfavila> rip
[2022-08-25T16:31:12Z] <sad_plan> yup
[2022-08-25T16:31:26Z] <midfavila> i've only had a handful of issues, and it usually comes down to either a)
[2022-08-25T16:31:33Z] <midfavila> someone's port isn't written properly
[2022-08-25T16:31:35Z] <midfavila> or b)
[2022-08-25T16:31:41Z] <midfavila> someone's build system uses non-POSIX stuff
[2022-08-25T16:31:55Z] <sad_plan> kinda wanna redo my setup from scratch again, with the tools I wanna use, and just work my way up from there, and fix stuff along the way. not the other way around. 
[2022-08-25T16:32:06Z] <midfavila> i've run into so many buildfiles that place parameters *after* filenames, it's hilarious
[2022-08-25T16:32:13Z] <midfavila> and yeah, go for it
[2022-08-25T16:33:56Z] <sad_plan> ill lay a plan this weekend perhaps, and start monday or something. i really wanna do toybox, because its more ních, but s/ubase is way smaller, which is also appesling to me :c 
[2022-08-25T16:34:11Z] * midfavila nod-nods
[2022-08-25T16:34:15Z] <sad_plan> s/appesling/appealing/
[2022-08-25T16:36:11Z] <sad_plan> I also just dont wanna deal with pesky shared libs, but we all know that aint happening any time soon :')
[2022-08-25T16:36:37Z] <midfavila> i mean, i've gotten pretty close to a completely static userland and dev toolchain
[2022-08-25T16:37:06Z] <midfavila> only persistent problem is what i mentioned the other day, with some symbols from stdlib being undefined during static links
[2022-08-25T16:40:43Z] <sad_plan> yeah, ive previously created a fully static system, but the lack of usable browser is for the most part whats bothering me the most. perhaps just use a chroot for that, but that would be cheating :c
[2022-08-25T16:41:08Z] <midfavila> if you include links under the set of usable browsers, you can statically link it
[2022-08-25T16:41:38Z] <wael[m]> what is it with people and having a thing for static linking
[2022-08-25T16:41:51Z] <sad_plan> i know. but i cant seem to get the graphical part to work. for whatever reason..
[2022-08-25T16:41:57Z] <midfavila> makes portability a non-issue, wael[m]
[2022-08-25T16:42:03Z] <sad_plan> because static linking is based
[2022-08-25T16:42:06Z] <midfavila> can also increase system reliability
[2022-08-25T16:42:12Z] <midfavila> so like, as an example,
[2022-08-25T16:42:25Z] <midfavila> if I delete the C runtime from my distro, basically everything still works fine
[2022-08-25T16:42:43Z] <midfavila> because they each include the necessary components of the C runtime to do their job
[2022-08-25T16:43:06Z] <midfavila> even the compiler and such works without the C runtime
[2022-08-25T16:58:42Z] <midfavila> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/autoconf/2021-01/msg00049.html
[2022-08-25T17:00:45Z] <testuser[m]12> > Future plans
[2022-08-25T17:00:47Z] <testuser[m]12> Burn it
[2022-08-25T17:01:45Z] <midfavila> fwiw i'd rather autotools than ninja or w/e
[2022-08-25T17:01:50Z] <midfavila> or... 
[2022-08-25T17:01:52Z] * midfavila shudders
[2022-08-25T17:01:53Z] <midfavila> cmake
[2022-08-25T17:02:01Z] <midfavila> fucking libressl in a build tool
[2022-08-25T17:02:26Z] <wael[m]> whats the point of autotools
[2022-08-25T17:02:50Z] <midfavila> to allow for programs written in C to painlessly compile natively on a wide variety of platforms, and to automate the writing of makefiles
[2022-08-25T17:02:59Z] <midfavila> s/C/C or C++/
[2022-08-25T18:38:59Z] <testuser[m]12> illiliti: https://github.com/kiss-community/community/issues/731#issuecomment-937687845
[2022-08-25T19:25:43Z] <phoebos> midfavila: why would you want to parse the maintainer file
[2022-08-25T19:26:17Z] <phoebos> it's just a note of who to ask without relying on git
[2022-08-25T19:29:30Z] <midfavila> dunno, but it's better to assume that someone somewhere will benefit from it
[2022-08-25T19:29:52Z] <midfavila> especially when making it trivial to manipulate or not is determined by one character
[2022-08-25T20:10:19Z] <phoebos> well : is allowed in emails
[2022-08-25T20:10:23Z] <phoebos> better to use newline
[2022-08-25T22:51:13Z] <Ogromny> Hum
[2022-08-25T22:51:41Z] <Ogromny> Do you think I can put `-static` in my CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS ?
[2022-08-25T22:52:04Z] <Ogromny> Or it'll just fuck up a lot of things lol 
[2022-08-25T22:52:50Z] <Ogromny> (Don't want to spend X hours recompiling everything and then realize that x or y doesn't work anymore)
[2022-08-25T22:53:19Z] <Ogromny> (The plan is to make kiss more or less 100% static, like oasis)
[2022-08-25T23:25:00Z] <virutalmachineus> no....
[2022-08-25T23:40:58Z] <midfavila> ogromny, unfortunately for most large projects it's a little more complex than just throwing -static in your CFLAGS or LDFLAGS