[2023-01-10T02:07:50Z] <Ellowee[m]> You have to be trolling
[2023-01-10T06:59:20Z] <wael_> Hi
[2023-01-10T07:00:14Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2023-01-10T17:33:04Z] <wael_> rip
[2023-01-10T17:33:11Z] <wael_> bruh his name has a type
[2023-01-10T18:05:04Z] <midfavila> jesus christ you guys-
[2023-01-10T18:05:11Z] <midfavila> i'm gonna throttle whoever designed OMEMO
[2023-01-10T18:05:19Z] <midfavila> or people who write XMPP clients,
[2023-01-10T18:05:22Z] <midfavila> or *something*
[2023-01-10T18:05:27Z] <midfavila> what a mess of an ecosystem
[2023-01-10T18:07:46Z] <wael_> whats a omemo
[2023-01-10T18:07:48Z] <Ellowee[m]> federation is still a type of implied centralization c:
[2023-01-10T18:11:48Z] <midfavila> federation is fine
[2023-01-10T18:11:56Z] <midfavila> as is centralization in some circumstances
[2023-01-10T18:12:09Z] <midfavila> complete decentralization can result in overcomplex stacks
[2023-01-10T18:12:25Z] <midfavila> omemo is a form of encryption used primarily (exclusively?) by XMPP clients and servers
[2023-01-10T18:12:58Z] <midfavila> unfortunately, every XMPP client and server supports radically different features, so if you have a lot of contacts via XMPP that want you to use OMEMO, your options for clients are suddenly severely limited
[2023-01-10T18:13:09Z] <midfavila> and it's *annoying* because PGP is an option
[2023-01-10T18:13:11Z] <midfavila> but no
[2023-01-10T18:17:01Z] <midfavila> btw any of you ever attend a LUG?
[2023-01-10T18:21:16Z] <Ellowee[m]> LUG?
[2023-01-10T18:21:23Z] <midfavila> linux user group
[2023-01-10T18:21:33Z] <midfavila> i've wanted to try starting one in my area for a while
[2023-01-10T18:22:17Z] <Ellowee[m]> Would if I was physically near
[2023-01-10T18:24:10Z] <midfavila> fair enough
[2023-01-10T18:24:22Z] <wael_> would if i wasnt in the middle of nowhere 
[2023-01-10T18:24:27Z] <midfavila> one of my things this year is to try and be more social, but the only thing I know anything about is unix and stuff, soooooooooooo
[2023-01-10T18:24:35Z] <midfavila> usergroup it is
[2023-01-10T18:29:51Z] <Ellowee[m]> the only kind of sane thing nowadays
[2023-01-10T18:30:29Z] <midfavila> HAH
[2023-01-10T18:30:31Z] <midfavila> as if
[2023-01-10T18:30:46Z] <midfavila> computing is the reason things have gone to shit lmao
[2023-01-10T18:30:54Z] <midfavila> letting more people access the net was a mistake
[2023-01-10T18:31:15Z] <midfavila> unix in particular is a mess too
[2023-01-10T18:31:18Z] <midfavila> but, w/e
[2023-01-10T18:34:24Z] <Ellowee[m]> Don't think computing is to blame
[2023-01-10T18:34:50Z] <Ellowee[m]> Might be an enabler, sure, but not the reason
[2023-01-10T18:35:03Z] <midfavila> well, the "reason" is that things have always been shit
[2023-01-10T18:35:07Z] <midfavila> because people are shit
[2023-01-10T18:35:16Z] <midfavila> but at least you used to be able to get away from most of it on the net
[2023-01-10T18:35:27Z] <midfavila> now, you can't get away from it on or offline
[2023-01-10T18:39:01Z] <Ellowee[m]> True
[2023-01-10T18:59:18Z] <phoebos> woop mid has discovered the shitshow of xmpp
[2023-01-10T18:59:24Z] <phoebos> what's your jid?
[2023-01-10T18:59:32Z] <phoebos> would you prefer pgp to omemo?
[2023-01-10T19:01:58Z] <phoebos> midfavila: 
[2023-01-10T19:40:23Z] <midfavila> phoebos I've known about xmpp for a long time
[2023-01-10T19:40:38Z] <midfavila> i only tolerate it because someone i know from elsewhere would otherwise lose contact with me
[2023-01-10T19:40:45Z] <midfavila> i'm not willing to use it for anyone else, sorry
[2023-01-10T20:02:14Z] <phoebos> ok
[2023-01-10T20:02:28Z] <phoebos> did you mean you think pgp is a better option?
[2023-01-10T20:02:55Z] <midfavila> i'd rather pgp than omemo
[2023-01-10T20:05:28Z] <phoebos> in my experience, both work without too much set up
[2023-01-10T20:05:39Z] <phoebos> as long as both people have it set up before trying to chat
[2023-01-10T20:05:50Z] <midfavila> problem is that fuck-all supports omemo
[2023-01-10T20:07:03Z] <phoebos> https://omemo.top/
[2023-01-10T20:07:34Z] <phoebos> admittedly, most things use libsignal-protocol-c
[2023-01-10T20:07:45Z] <midfavila> also looks like most of this is android or web based
[2023-01-10T20:07:46Z] <midfavila> so
[2023-01-10T20:07:49Z] <phoebos> but that's not necessarily the same as fuck all
[2023-01-10T20:07:49Z] <midfavila> completely and utterly useless
[2023-01-10T20:08:16Z] <phoebos> > profanity, dino, gajim, poezio
[2023-01-10T20:08:27Z] <phoebos> etc
[2023-01-10T20:08:32Z] <midfavila> most
[2023-01-10T20:08:42Z] <midfavila> i'm aware that there are options
[2023-01-10T20:09:02Z] <phoebos> all these support omemo
[2023-01-10T20:09:07Z] <midfavila> i should have been more clear: there's nothing that supports omemo that meets my expectations. *shrug*
[2023-01-10T20:09:35Z] <midfavila> i don't need every feature under the sun, i don't want a client that's so huge I can't audit it, etc
[2023-01-10T20:09:51Z] <phoebos> ok. all these xmpp clients are kinda crap anyway
[2023-01-10T20:10:02Z] <midfavila> indeed.
[2023-01-10T20:11:36Z] <phoebos> it's a shame, the servers are generally quite good
[2023-01-10T20:13:22Z] <midfavila> maybe.
[2023-01-10T20:13:33Z] <midfavila> i want to avoid xmpp as much as possible
[2023-01-10T22:12:17Z] <niceguy5000[m]> what's wrong with xmpp?