2021-03-04T00:02:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> teenager restraint code activated
2021-03-04T00:02:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> please stand by while a responsible adult is sent to your location
2021-03-04T00:02:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> =w=
2021-03-04T00:03:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> ngl I think it's kind of stupid how low the age of majority is here
2021-03-04T00:03:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> in most provinces it's eighteen, in mine it's nineteen
2021-03-04T00:03:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> but like, most people either just got out of highschool or have barely been out of high school in that time
2021-03-04T00:04:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> you think most of us have half a clue as to the correct method of adult-ing? fuck no
2021-03-04T00:04:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> most of us can't clean or cook for ourselves smh
2021-03-04T00:04:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> definitely shouldn't be allowed to vote
2021-03-04T00:08:58 #kisslinux <noocsharp> well here in the US, 18 year olds get to vote because 18 years olds can be sent off to war
2021-03-04T00:09:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's dumb too
2021-03-04T00:09:35 #kisslinux <noocsharp> not that a draft has happened in recent history
2021-03-04T00:09:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> "ya got yer high school diploma? here's a rifle, some boots, and a helmet. off to $COUNTRY with you"
2021-03-04T00:09:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I mean idk vietnam was only a couple generations ago
2021-03-04T00:14:03 #kisslinux <noocsharp> wait, why does Canada let 18 years olds vote? cuz i think the US gave in to letting 18 year olds vote during Vietnam, but Canadia didn't have conscription by that point
2021-03-04T00:14:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> canada is weird
2021-03-04T00:14:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> we have "age of majority"
2021-03-04T00:14:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> and at AoM, which is technically decided by each prov. and territory, you're considered a full legal adult
2021-03-04T00:15:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> and gain all the privileges and responsibilities that that status entails
2021-03-04T00:15:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> although some are allowed at younger ages, depending on what we're talking about
2021-03-04T00:15:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> for example you can get specialty drivers' licenses at like 14 for operating farm equipment
2021-03-04T00:16:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> AoM is what determines when you can vote, too. there's not really a "reason"
2021-03-04T00:16:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> the reason is because the people with guns and money said so
2021-03-04T00:34:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> I've heard that in some Asian countries like Singapore every young adult has to perform a conscription period in the nation's military. Usually it's... two years, I think?
2021-03-04T00:34:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> I feel like a lot of people would benefit from that
2021-03-04T00:34:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> Like, in Western countries
2021-03-04T00:35:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> Learn a bunch of practical skills, meet people, get in shape, make a little bit of money to sustain yourself when you're on your own...
2021-03-04T00:36:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> I think South Korea does something similar. Not sure though
2021-03-04T00:38:33 #kisslinux <noocsharp> it would probably be beneficial, but muh freedom
2021-03-04T00:39:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> "Muh freedom to get a useless degree, learn nothing useful, and end up under a bridge or stuck in a dead-end job!!!"
2021-03-04T00:39:45 #kisslinux <noocsharp> precisely
2021-03-04T00:39:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> I considered joining the military for a while but from what I've seen I wouldn't be able to enlist
2021-03-04T00:40:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> muh 'tism and all
2021-03-04T00:41:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> Last I heard the Air Force is investing heavily in computer warfare
2021-03-04T00:41:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> which would have been cool
2021-03-04T00:42:24 #kisslinux <acheam> this isn't related at all, but I love my Linux setup. My computer and me have acheived perfect symbiosis. Never had I had such raw, unadulderated power at my fingertips, or the knowlege to utilize it before every passing second.
2021-03-04T00:42:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah yoonix does that
2021-03-04T00:42:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> now install templeos
2021-03-04T00:42:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> run everything in ring zero
2021-03-04T00:43:01 #kisslinux <acheam> I have to boot into a Windows VM to do some layout design stuff, and holy crap, how did I live until today with that shit
2021-03-04T00:43:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah I had that feeling last time I used windows
2021-03-04T00:43:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> back when I was still in high school i'd just liveboot off my android
2021-03-04T00:43:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> screw using winten on a P4 system
2021-03-04T00:44:10 #kisslinux <acheam> so your boot partition was on your phone?
2021-03-04T00:44:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> no I just mounted an ISO over USB lmao
2021-03-04T00:44:36 #kisslinux <acheam> thats gotta be pretty slow
2021-03-04T00:44:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> not really
2021-03-04T00:44:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> USB is actually really fast
2021-03-04T00:44:59 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah but the storage device
2021-03-04T00:45:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> in some cases as fast or faster than SATA
2021-03-04T00:45:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> and i mean
2021-03-04T00:45:06 #kisslinux <acheam> USB is fast, phone storage isnt
2021-03-04T00:45:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> it wasn't noticably slow
2021-03-04T00:45:19 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm
2021-03-04T00:45:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> i was able to run a full XFCE environment
2021-03-04T00:45:34 #kisslinux <acheam> impressive
2021-03-04T00:45:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah. normally I use MX Linux for my liveboot stuff
2021-03-04T00:45:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> it Just Werks:tm:
2021-03-04T00:45:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> and even though it's Debian-based it doesn't require systemd
2021-03-04T00:46:09 #kisslinux <acheam> systemd is optional on debian
2021-03-04T00:46:17 #kisslinux <acheam> its just installed by default
2021-03-04T00:46:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...wait then why does devuan exi-
2021-03-04T00:46:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh
2021-03-04T00:46:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, by that logic I could say systemd isn't needed on any linux distro
2021-03-04T00:46:42 #kisslinux <acheam> because maintaining systemd-less debian is a pain
2021-03-04T00:46:52 #kisslinux <acheam> devuan modifies a lot of packages to make it easier
2021-03-04T00:47:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> honestly I'd just use LFS or CRUX or something over Debian
2021-03-04T00:47:24 #kisslinux <acheam> pure debian is nice and slim
2021-03-04T00:47:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> until you install one package
2021-03-04T00:47:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> and it pulls in multiple gigs' worth of deps
2021-03-04T00:47:46 #kisslinux <acheam> you just have to make sure you install it without any of the extra cruft at the tasksel menu
2021-03-04T00:47:57 #kisslinux <acheam> okay, well thats any binary-based distro
2021-03-04T00:48:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes which is why they're almost always bad
2021-03-04T00:48:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> the thing I like about KISS is that even when you have to use a binary, it's almost always stripped down to the bare minimum
2021-03-04T00:49:06 #kisslinux <acheam> at least Debian statically links a lot of stuff
2021-03-04T00:49:10 #kisslinux <acheam> like haskell
2021-03-04T00:49:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> ohgod
2021-03-04T00:49:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> haskell is the definition of dependency hell
2021-03-04T00:49:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> like don't get me wrong it's really cool
2021-03-04T00:49:42 #kisslinux <acheam> Listen, i've gottsa got my pandoc and shellcheck
2021-03-04T00:49:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> but holy fucking shit, I have ptsd from the time I installed xmonad
2021-03-04T00:50:01 #kisslinux <noocsharp> isn't it like impossible to use h askell without statically linking?
2021-03-04T00:50:11 #kisslinux <acheam> noocsharp:  arch linux is dynamically linked
2021-03-04T00:50:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> arch cring
2021-03-04T00:50:46 #kisslinux <noocsharp> tf, imma check this out
2021-03-04T00:51:46 #kisslinux <acheam> https://envs.sh/pm.txt
2021-03-04T00:52:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
2021-03-04T00:52:05 #kisslinux <acheam> this is the output of pacman trying to replace my statically linked pandoc and shellcheck binaries with its default ones
2021-03-04T00:52:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> take it away
2021-03-04T00:52:23 #kisslinux <acheam> 133 packages, and 407 megs
2021-03-04T00:52:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> delet this
2021-03-04T00:54:33 #kisslinux <noocsharp> wait, ive experienced that so many times, but i never thought about it before in terms of dynamic linking for some reason
2021-03-04T00:54:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay side note
2021-03-04T00:55:02 #kisslinux <acheam> oh boy
2021-03-04T00:55:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> static linking is where the relevant chunks of libs are inserted into the binary right?
2021-03-04T00:55:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> at compile-time or whatever
2021-03-04T00:55:19 #kisslinux <acheam> yes
2021-03-04T00:55:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> so then riddle me this batman
2021-03-04T00:55:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> why does it still break if the library in question is removed
2021-03-04T00:55:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've had that happen before
2021-03-04T00:55:48 #kisslinux <acheam> umh not sure
2021-03-04T00:55:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> perhaps the answer can be found through recursion
2021-03-04T00:56:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> :thinking:
2021-03-04T00:56:03 #kisslinux <acheam> are you certain it was statically linked?
2021-03-04T00:56:13 #kisslinux <acheam> a statically linked binary should be portable
2021-03-04T00:56:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah that's what I don't get
2021-03-04T00:56:24 #kisslinux <acheam> like, just download it off the internet and run it
2021-03-04T00:56:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah I know
2021-03-04T00:56:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is what's weird
2021-03-04T00:56:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> meh I'll have to experiment this weekend
2021-03-04T00:56:39 #kisslinux <acheam> must not have compiled right then
2021-03-04T00:56:45 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn is the expert on this though
2021-03-04T00:56:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> one more thing to add to The List of Things to Do:tm:
2021-03-04T00:56:52 #kisslinux <acheam> kiss-static, n all
2021-03-04T00:57:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> I built KISS statically once. Was fun
2021-03-04T00:57:25 #kisslinux <acheam> well, are you sure it was static now?
2021-03-04T00:57:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> when that's what LDD tells me
2021-03-04T00:57:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-03-04T00:58:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> no idea why I capitalized that
2021-03-04T00:58:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> hrm
2021-03-04T00:59:54 #kisslinux <noocsharp> one of these days im gonna put kiss on top of oasis and see what happens
2021-03-04T01:00:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> literally just kiss
2021-03-04T01:01:39 #kisslinux <noocsharp> but with all the advantages of oasis, in theory
2021-03-04T01:02:42 #kisslinux <acheam> I use kiss on arch
2021-03-04T01:02:51 #kisslinux <acheam> none of the benefits, all the dependency hell
2021-03-04T01:03:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> lmao
2021-03-04T01:03:09 #kisslinux <noocsharp> lmao i can imagine
2021-03-04T01:03:20 #kisslinux <midfavila1> also I just want to say
2021-03-04T01:03:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> whoever invented suspend to disk is a god
2021-03-04T01:03:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> being able to put my laptop in "sleep" mode for a few days then just come back and resume whatever I was doing is amazing
2021-03-04T01:04:24 #kisslinux <acheam> https://i.imgur.com/kNSNkyD.png
2021-03-04T01:04:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >flatpak
2021-03-04T01:04:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> what's next, snaps?
2021-03-04T01:05:34 #kisslinux <acheam> I use them for running proprietary software, and things that would be dependency well otherwise
2021-03-04T01:05:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> okay fair
2021-03-04T01:05:49 #kisslinux <acheam> for example: kdenlive, eclipse, discord, zoom
2021-03-04T01:06:04 #kisslinux <acheam> eclipse is required for a class I'm taking
2021-03-04T01:06:15 #kisslinux <acheam> well, it was that or netbeans
2021-03-04T01:06:55 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> <midfavila1> whoever invented suspend to disk is a god
2021-03-04T01:06:59 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i just run zoom off of arch installed on a usb
2021-03-04T01:07:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it doesnt work here, d you need a special CONFIG item for kernel for that ?
2021-03-04T01:07:33 #kisslinux <midfavila1> pretty sure you do but I can't remember which
2021-03-04T01:07:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> do you have swap space on?
2021-03-04T01:07:41 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> meh
2021-03-04T01:07:53 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> paste your kernel config and i can figure it out
2021-03-04T01:07:59 #kisslinux <acheam> I should create a swapfile....
2021-03-04T01:08:08 #kisslinux <acheam> but i'm on BTRFS and I know it can be a pain
2021-03-04T01:08:16 #kisslinux <acheam> I don't want to COW my swapfile
2021-03-04T01:08:49 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> looking at my fstab, it seems i have it, yeah
2021-03-04T01:08:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i think I actually lost my configure lmao
2021-03-04T01:09:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> check if cat /sys/power/state has the string disk in it
2021-03-04T01:09:08 #kisslinux <acheam> sh4rm4^bnc:  is it bigger than your ram?
2021-03-04T01:09:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it doesn't have to be
2021-03-04T01:09:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> midfavila, zcat /proc/config.gz
2021-03-04T01:09:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah, it's 300 mb bigger
2021-03-04T01:09:31 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah I uh
2021-03-04T01:09:38 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila1:  I was almost certain it needed to be? Where does the extra ram go?
2021-03-04T01:09:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i don't normally keep a proc copy
2021-03-04T01:09:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and the "extra ram" doesn't go anywhere
2021-03-04T01:10:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> according to the kernel docs, leenox only stores what's absolutely necessary to resume your session
2021-03-04T01:10:17 #kisslinux <acheam> hmmm interesting
2021-03-04T01:10:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so if you're only using a gig of RAM actively, then it'll write that to the swap and do whatever
2021-03-04T01:10:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you can also tell linux to compress it
2021-03-04T01:10:32 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but that of course takes longer
2021-03-04T01:10:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> should be quite fast with lzo
2021-03-04T01:11:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you also have to append resume=/dev/sdXY to your boot params
2021-03-04T01:11:08 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> unless you have 128 gb ram
2021-03-04T01:11:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not slow
2021-03-04T01:11:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's just a minor speed difference
2021-03-04T01:11:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but yeah you can control all this stuff through reads and writes under /sys
2021-03-04T01:11:39 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> resume=/dev/sdXY where sdXY is swap ?
2021-03-04T01:11:42 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah
2021-03-04T01:11:43 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm a big fan of minor speed differences
2021-03-04T01:11:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you can also use uuid in theory
2021-03-04T01:11:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but I never got that to work
2021-03-04T01:11:54 #kisslinux <acheam> #!/bin/dash ftw
2021-03-04T01:11:55 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and uuid is stupid anyway
2021-03-04T01:11:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> fucking @ me
2021-03-04T01:12:39 #kisslinux <acheam> I mean, its not that much more difficult to copy and paste the uuid
2021-03-04T01:13:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> normally I work in the TTY on my laptop
2021-03-04T01:13:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and GPM is bloat
2021-03-04T01:13:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but point is it doesn't work
2021-03-04T01:13:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and /dev/sdXY does
2021-03-04T01:13:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> originally I was going to store it on my SD card but... eugh
2021-03-04T01:14:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> # zzz -Z
2021-03-04T01:14:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> zzz: hibernate not supported
2021-03-04T01:14:49 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i don't think it says that due to missing resume kernel param
2021-03-04T01:14:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> what the fuck is zzz
2021-03-04T01:14:58 #kisslinux <noocsharp> CONFIG_HIBERNATION?
2021-03-04T01:14:58 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> that would be the next step
2021-03-04T01:15:01 #kisslinux <acheam> general purpose sleep command
2021-03-04T01:15:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> just write disk to /sys/power/state
2021-03-04T01:15:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> lmao
2021-03-04T01:15:37 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> https://man.voidlinux.org/zzz.8
2021-03-04T01:15:57 #kisslinux <acheam> "
2021-03-04T01:15:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> absolute bloat
2021-03-04T01:16:00 #kisslinux <acheam> suspend/hibernate not supported
2021-03-04T01:16:02 #kisslinux <acheam>     The hardware does not support ACPI S3/S4 with this kernel.
2021-03-04T01:17:20 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> bloat, right. it's a 50 line shell script
2021-03-04T01:17:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> fifty lines of BLOAT
2021-03-04T01:17:37 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> your mom
2021-03-04T01:17:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah my mom is pretty awful ngl
2021-03-04T01:17:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> don't even have anything to reply with
2021-03-04T01:23:32 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> <noocsharp> CONFIG_HIBERNATION?
2021-03-04T01:23:50 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> is this a thing? if so then yes that's probably why it doesnt work for me
2021-03-04T01:24:06 #kisslinux <noocsharp> indeed it is a thing
2021-03-04T01:24:12 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> thx
2021-03-04T01:24:31 #kisslinux <noocsharp> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/pm/sleep-states.html#hibernation
2021-03-04T01:34:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> "Kernel? Kernel who?"
2021-03-04T02:03:34 #kisslinux <protonesso> o7
2021-03-04T02:08:00 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I'm officially coming back to KISS finally
2021-03-04T02:08:26 #kisslinux <MueVoid> About to do an install just backing up my files
2021-03-04T02:08:36 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> welcome back!
2021-03-04T02:09:11 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Thanks :)
2021-03-04T02:09:18 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I'm very excited I miss KISS
2021-03-04T02:09:24 #kisslinux <MueVoid> However I am going with GKISS
2021-03-04T02:09:54 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Mainly due to Java
2021-03-04T02:10:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> I'm stuck with gKISS on my desktop
2021-03-04T02:11:28 #kisslinux <MueVoid> What is your reason for GKISS?
2021-03-04T02:12:26 #kisslinux <midfavila1> muh geeteekay
2021-03-04T02:12:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and muh browser
2021-03-04T02:12:29 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I wish I could use normal musl KISS but there are just a few applications I need for school and stuff.
2021-03-04T02:12:43 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Oh yeah you said you use the palemoon forked browser? Neugia?
2021-03-04T02:12:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah
2021-03-04T02:12:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> nuegia
2021-03-04T02:12:53 #kisslinux <MueVoid> My bad
2021-03-04T02:13:06 #kisslinux <MueVoid> What is geeteekay?
2021-03-04T02:13:10 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Gtk?
2021-03-04T02:13:34 #kisslinux <acheam> you learn how to read mid's expanded vowel script after some time of being here
2021-03-04T02:13:46 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I used to hand around here quite a bit lol
2021-03-04T02:14:02 #kisslinux <MueVoid> hang*
2021-03-04T02:14:18 #kisslinux <acheam> we have a regex bot now btw
2021-03-04T02:14:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >you learn how to read mid's expanded vowel script
2021-03-04T02:14:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> lmao
2021-03-04T02:14:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> no you don't
2021-03-04T02:14:31 #kisslinux <MueVoid> lol:
2021-03-04T02:14:31 #kisslinux <MueVoid> muevoid     4,232
2021-03-04T02:14:39 #kisslinux <midfavila1> nobody can truly comprehend what I speak of
2021-03-04T02:14:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> not even myself
2021-03-04T02:14:48 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Whoa meta
2021-03-04T02:15:25 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but yeah a lot of GTK2 programs just don't work on my laptop which uses musl
2021-03-04T02:15:31 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's moderately frustrating
2021-03-04T02:15:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> because it means I have a different workflow on my laptop and desktop
2021-03-04T02:15:57 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Yeah that sucks
2021-03-04T02:16:05 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Why not use glibc on your laptop too?
2021-03-04T02:16:20 #kisslinux <midfavila1> because i would actually prefer to just use Xaw programs
2021-03-04T02:16:33 #kisslinux <midfavila1> gtk2 is the least awful of the modern toolkits
2021-03-04T02:16:38 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Gotcha
2021-03-04T02:16:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but I'm not gonna get rid of the benefits of musl on my laptop just to use bloated software
2021-03-04T02:16:49 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I live with gtk3 *shrug*
2021-03-04T02:16:54 #kisslinux * midfavila1 hisses
2021-03-04T02:17:00 #kisslinux <midfavila1> begone css heathen
2021-03-04T02:17:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> back to whence you came
2021-03-04T02:17:15 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Wayland tho
2021-03-04T02:17:19 #kisslinux <acheam> why would you use xaw over motif?
2021-03-04T02:17:19 #kisslinux <midfavila1> even worse
2021-03-04T02:17:33 #kisslinux <midfavila1> because motif is a bitch to build
2021-03-04T02:17:33 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Wayland is amazing imagine thinking xorg isn't bloated
2021-03-04T02:17:39 #kisslinux <MueVoid> :P
2021-03-04T02:17:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> imagine thinking plopping wayland on top of xorg is less bloated than just using xorg
2021-03-04T02:17:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> reddit tier take
2021-03-04T02:17:56 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Who says you have to use xorg with wayland?
2021-03-04T02:18:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the fact that I prefer Xaw programs does
2021-03-04T02:18:08 #kisslinux <MueVoid> My old kiss setup didn't even have libX11 :P
2021-03-04T02:18:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Xaw, MOTIF, XForms, etc are built directly on top of libXt
2021-03-04T02:18:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so switching to wayland would mean that I'd need to replace literally every single program I currently use
2021-03-04T02:18:44 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Fair enough but at least in my setup wayland is objectively less bloated
2021-03-04T02:18:50 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Xorg got's lot of history
2021-03-04T02:18:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if wayland works for you then that's great
2021-03-04T02:19:20 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I agree but u say even worse lol
2021-03-04T02:19:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but unless you use "modern" toolkits and either GNOME, KDE or a hipster tiler, it's dogshit
2021-03-04T02:19:32 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so ultimately your system ends up more bloated
2021-03-04T02:19:33 #kisslinux <MueVoid> hikari is pretty good
2021-03-04T02:19:39 #kisslinux <midfavila1> hikari isn't as good as fvwm
2021-03-04T02:19:42 #kisslinux <MueVoid> dwl is a good tiler
2021-03-04T02:19:55 #kisslinux <MueVoid> That's subjective though
2021-03-04T02:19:56 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if it's not as flexible and lightweight as fvwm i'm not interested tbh
2021-03-04T02:20:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and i mean, we can measure in terms of efficiency, deps, and flexibility. those are all objective
2021-03-04T02:20:45 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I argue you can't measure efficiency that depends on a per person basis and their work flow
2021-03-04T02:20:56 #kisslinux <midfavila1> efficiency in terms of system resources? you totally can
2021-03-04T02:20:59 #kisslinux <MueVoid> flexibility all of it is open source so at the end of the day you can do whatever you want
2021-03-04T02:21:11 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Ah you didn't clarify I thought you were talking work efficiency
2021-03-04T02:21:20 #kisslinux <midfavila1> workflow is something you can't measure, yeah
2021-03-04T02:21:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and the argument of "just edit the source" is silly
2021-03-04T02:21:33 #kisslinux <midfavila1> because then it's not what the upstream program is
2021-03-04T02:21:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> which means you aren't comparing it to a master copy
2021-03-04T02:22:04 #kisslinux <MueVoid> But if that's how you configure it I would argue it is fair. For example programs such as dwm which are highly customized with patches
2021-03-04T02:22:08 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila1: re statically-linked binary breaking when lib is removed: what's the output of $(file <file>)? It could be that its not completely statically linked.
2021-03-04T02:22:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> next time I encounter it I'll ping you kiedtl
2021-03-04T02:22:27 #kisslinux <kiedtl> kk
2021-03-04T02:22:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but it's been ages since I've tinkered with statics
2021-03-04T02:22:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and I mean, the suckless software's way of doing things is fundamentally different
2021-03-04T02:23:00 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Yeah but it's still an argument worth making
2021-03-04T02:23:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you can't compare a premade car to a custom-built hotrod machine because the methods by which they achieve their goals are totally different
2021-03-04T02:23:12 #kisslinux <MueVoid> as some other software that isn't by suckless follows such way
2021-03-04T02:23:27 #kisslinux <kiedtl> thing is, *all* libraries that the binary uses have to be statically linked, not just the libc. Just adding -static to the CFLAGS won't always completely do the job, sadly.
2021-03-04T02:23:38 #kisslinux <kiedtl> cc flags are so darn complicated
2021-03-04T02:23:42 #kisslinux <kiedtl> so much for unix simplicity
2021-03-04T02:23:59 #kisslinux <acheam> the solution?
2021-03-04T02:24:01 #kisslinux <acheam> rust.
2021-03-04T02:24:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> That's probably why then
2021-03-04T02:24:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'm banning you acheam
2021-03-04T02:24:11 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Bad.
2021-03-04T02:24:20 #kisslinux <acheam> :mode -q acheam
2021-03-04T02:24:24 #kisslinux * midfavila1 smacks acheam cruelly for their stupidity
2021-03-04T02:24:32 #kisslinux <kiedtl> you're mod so it doesn't have any affect lol
2021-03-04T02:24:33 #kisslinux <MueVoid> deps I think any wlroots based compositor beats out any xorg wm
2021-03-04T02:24:36 #kisslinux <acheam> big move quieting an op
2021-03-04T02:24:44 #kisslinux <kiedtl> s/mod/op
2021-03-04T02:24:45 #kisslinux <kissbot> <kiedtl> you're op so it doesn't have any affect lol
2021-03-04T02:24:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> idk fvwm at its core is like
2021-03-04T02:24:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> libXt and libX11
2021-03-04T02:24:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and that's it
2021-03-04T02:24:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> wlroots in comparison has to include literally everything
2021-03-04T02:25:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's not "modular" in the sense that Xorg is afaik
2021-03-04T02:25:16 #kisslinux <MueVoid> But you also have to go based off of what those libs need and those libs need and etc
2021-03-04T02:25:21 #kisslinux <MueVoid> And wayland is quite modular
2021-03-04T02:25:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> then why does wlroots exist
2021-03-04T02:25:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> isn't it literally designed to be a monolithic library
2021-03-04T02:25:44 #kisslinux <kiedtl> it's not a library
2021-03-04T02:25:47 #kisslinux <kiedtl> it's a framework, really
2021-03-04T02:25:51 #kisslinux <MueVoid> ^
2021-03-04T02:25:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> framework/library whatever
2021-03-04T02:25:58 #kisslinux <kiedtl> it's needed because making a compositor is really complicated
2021-03-04T02:26:02 #kisslinux <MueVoid> that too
2021-03-04T02:26:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the important thing is that it's a dependency
2021-03-04T02:26:03 #kisslinux <kiedtl> you gotta use the gpu, etc
2021-03-04T02:26:09 #kisslinux <kiedtl> do all your rendering
2021-03-04T02:26:14 #kisslinux <MueVoid> wayland by design gives a lot more flexibility compared to X11
2021-03-04T02:26:19 #kisslinux <MueVoid> and starts with a lot less
2021-03-04T02:26:21 #kisslinux <kiedtl> wlroots, its 10k loc that you'd write anyway
2021-03-04T02:26:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> idk about that
2021-03-04T02:26:28 #kisslinux <acheam> https://invidious.kavin.rocks/cH_yuFJXwfw
2021-03-04T02:26:29 #kisslinux <MueVoid> It really is
2021-03-04T02:26:50 #kisslinux <midfavila1> can I run a program on my workstation and output its display to my local machine
2021-03-04T02:26:55 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Yes
2021-03-04T02:27:02 #kisslinux <kiedtl> on wayland?
2021-03-04T02:27:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> without relying on X at all?
2021-03-04T02:27:04 #kisslinux <MueVoid> there are network transparent protocols for wayland available now
2021-03-04T02:27:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yes
2021-03-04T02:27:05 #kisslinux <MueVoid> yes
2021-03-04T02:27:06 #kisslinux <MueVoid> waypipe
2021-03-04T02:27:08 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Huh
2021-03-04T02:27:08 #kisslinux <MueVoid> is one
2021-03-04T02:27:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Nice, I had no idea o_o
2021-03-04T02:27:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> okay so I have to install extra stuff
2021-03-04T02:27:19 #kisslinux <midfavila1> meh
2021-03-04T02:27:26 #kisslinux <MueVoid> but that's more modular
2021-03-04T02:27:34 #kisslinux <MueVoid> you don't need what you don't need and only install what you need
2021-03-04T02:27:38 #kisslinux <MueVoid> isn't KISS all about that?
2021-03-04T02:27:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's intrinsic to X due to its design
2021-03-04T02:27:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that's just gravy
2021-03-04T02:27:50 #kisslinux <MueVoid> It doesn't come with everything installed easier to add then remove
2021-03-04T02:27:51 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila1: Well, in Xorg, you need to install a separate program to "manage windows". meh.
2021-03-04T02:28:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> in wayland, I only need a compositor.
2021-03-04T02:28:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that's the modularity aspect :P
2021-03-04T02:28:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-03-04T02:28:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> in X I can choose my window manager (or just not use one), I can choose my compositor (or just not use one), etc
2021-03-04T02:28:34 #kisslinux <kiedtl> not use one?
2021-03-04T02:28:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah?
2021-03-04T02:28:45 #kisslinux <MueVoid> yeah you don't have to use a wm on xorg
2021-03-04T02:28:46 #kisslinux <kiedtl> not use a window manager? I mean, why
2021-03-04T02:28:51 #kisslinux <kiedtl> yeah, I know you *can*
2021-03-04T02:28:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the why doesn't matter
2021-03-04T02:28:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> only that the user has the option to
2021-03-04T02:29:00 #kisslinux <acheam> its good for kiosks and stuff
2021-03-04T02:29:00 #kisslinux <MueVoid> you can with wayland too I am pretty sure
2021-03-04T02:29:01 #kisslinux * midfavila1 shrugs
2021-03-04T02:29:04 #kisslinux <MueVoid> such as cage
2021-03-04T02:29:12 #kisslinux <acheam> but that requires a seperate compositor
2021-03-04T02:29:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ^
2021-03-04T02:29:18 #kisslinux <acheam> its just xinit in xorg
2021-03-04T02:29:25 #kisslinux <midfavila1> wayland always requires a compositor
2021-03-04T02:29:28 #kisslinux <MueVoid> fair
2021-03-04T02:29:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> xorg doesn't need anything, technically
2021-03-04T02:29:39 #kisslinux <kiedtl> the compositor *is* wayland
2021-03-04T02:29:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> shit you can even pass toolkit options to position windows
2021-03-04T02:29:41 #kisslinux <acheam> xinit firefox https://mykioskwebsite.com
2021-03-04T02:29:51 #kisslinux <MueVoid> it kind of does though what is libX11?
2021-03-04T02:30:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> libX11 is the definition of X
2021-03-04T02:30:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> libX11 is the library used to move windows, resize, write wms, etc
2021-03-04T02:30:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it contains all the low-level details and functions
2021-03-04T02:30:30 #kisslinux <kiedtl> libX11 is built on top of XCB, which is basically the same thing but async
2021-03-04T02:30:31 #kisslinux <MueVoid> It was more of a rhetorical question
2021-03-04T02:30:38 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well it was kind of a stupid question
2021-03-04T02:30:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> no offense
2021-03-04T02:30:48 #kisslinux <MueVoid> rhetorical
2021-03-04T02:30:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> rhetoric can be stupid.
2021-03-04T02:31:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> anyway
2021-03-04T02:31:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> point is
2021-03-04T02:31:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> xorg rules and wayland drools
2021-03-04T02:31:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> btfo'd
2021-03-04T02:31:19 #kisslinux <kiedtl> >_>
2021-03-04T02:31:34 #kisslinux <MueVoid> You seem to diss wayland just because you don't like it or understand it completely
2021-03-04T02:31:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> behold my vast and solid logical arguments
2021-03-04T02:31:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and no, I diss wayland because it's fundamentally incompatible with how I do things
2021-03-04T02:31:56 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Look, midfavila1, I agree with you that Wayland just isn't ready yet, but you're coming off as unnecessarily asshole-ish.
2021-03-04T02:32:07 #kisslinux <MueVoid> It's fine that it doesn't work for you but dissing it just because it doesn't make any sense
2021-03-04T02:32:09 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I don't diss xorg
2021-03-04T02:32:14 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I think xorg is great and has use cases
2021-03-04T02:32:26 #kisslinux <MueVoid> But defending it saying it has no flaws basically is flawed upon itself
2021-03-04T02:32:26 #kisslinux <midfavila1> like I said before if it works for you that's great
2021-03-04T02:32:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and I never said xorg is perfect
2021-03-04T02:32:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it was literally hacked together in, what, two weeks?
2021-03-04T02:32:56 #kisslinux <midfavila1> what we SHOULD have gone with was Display PostScript
2021-03-04T02:33:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but X was vendor-neutral and muh yoonix wars and all that
2021-03-04T02:33:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but at least X works
2021-03-04T02:34:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it took maybe a couple years to have what we would consider a """modern""" X server to be produced by MIT and the Consortium. wayland has been in development for what, almost a decade and a half at this point, and it's still playing catchup for basic stuff
2021-03-04T02:34:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so it's like
2021-03-04T02:34:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> why would you use it
2021-03-04T02:34:21 #kisslinux <MueVoid> What basic things though?
2021-03-04T02:34:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ^^
2021-03-04T02:34:31 #kisslinux <midfavila1> can you screen record properly yet?
2021-03-04T02:34:36 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Yes
2021-03-04T02:34:38 #kisslinux <MueVoid> obs, wf-recorder, ffmpeg
2021-03-04T02:34:43 #kisslinux <MueVoid> grim/slurp screenshots
2021-03-04T02:34:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> last I checked OBS didn't work properly
2021-03-04T02:34:48 #kisslinux <MueVoid> xdg-desktop-portal screensharing
2021-03-04T02:34:52 #kisslinux <MueVoid> It has a plugin for it
2021-03-04T02:34:56 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but if they got that working good, took them long enough
2021-03-04T02:35:00 #kisslinux <MueVoid> There are options for pretty much everything
2021-03-04T02:35:07 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Two main things I can think of flaws wise
2021-03-04T02:35:53 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Nvidia is shit on wlroots based compositors which is more of nvidias being an ass then the wlroots developers. And vsync is forced for most compositors(however this is being looked into being not forced)
2021-03-04T02:36:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> can you run at a higher refresh rate now?
2021-03-04T02:36:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that was another thing I've heard people bitch about
2021-03-04T02:36:34 #kisslinux <travankor> >hikari
2021-03-04T02:36:50 #kisslinux <travankor> i remember running into two crashes in my first hour using that :p
2021-03-04T02:36:52 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Like I said as of rn it is still vysnc which is stupid af but they are looking into disabling vsync in wlroots at least
2021-03-04T02:37:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> okay but my point is
2021-03-04T02:37:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> these are basic things
2021-03-04T02:37:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> shouldn't even be a problem
2021-03-04T02:37:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yet they are
2021-03-04T02:37:29 #kisslinux <MueVoid> It is more of because of how wayland is designed though so not really a problem more of was a design choice in the past
2021-03-04T02:37:37 #kisslinux <MueVoid> But enough people want it so they are looking into it
2021-03-04T02:38:10 #kisslinux * midfavila1 shrugs
2021-03-04T02:38:24 #kisslinux <MueVoid> And I think two flaws compared to a lot of the flaws in xorg is a good tradeoff and not worth saying oh why use wayland it's shit anyways *shrugs*
2021-03-04T02:38:40 #kisslinux <MueVoid> (major flaws) they both have tons of flaws
2021-03-04T02:38:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> thing is a lot of "flaws" i've heard people complain about when it comes to xorg are either grossly overstated or mitigated if you configure things properly
2021-03-04T02:39:01 #kisslinux <MueVoid> and from my workflow at least those are only two flaws I hear a lot about which are both valid points
2021-03-04T02:39:06 #kisslinux <travankor> wayland could be a lot better honestly
2021-03-04T02:39:31 #kisslinux <travankor> if the devs didn't have that smug redhat attitude where they know better than everyone else
2021-03-04T02:39:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ^
2021-03-04T02:39:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the Wayland Vision:tm:
2021-03-04T02:40:11 #kisslinux <MueVoid> The devs don't really seem to be like that to me though
2021-03-04T02:40:12 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Well, redhat has been maintaining Xorg for quite a while
2021-03-04T02:40:31 #kisslinux <MueVoid> At least for wlroots which is by far the largest implementation outside of gnome or kde
2021-03-04T02:40:58 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I would honestly like to be shown if I am wrong though
2021-03-04T02:41:20 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Just from what I see they aren't smug just more of don't want to add certain things because it's outside of the scope for wlroots and or sway
2021-03-04T02:42:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> idk man I just want more Xaw programs
2021-03-04T02:42:58 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Anyways I'm getting off of irc now time to go install GKISS
2021-03-04T02:43:35 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Didn't mean to come off as an asshole I just don't like why people seem to diss wayland so much for apparently no reason to me *shrug*
2021-03-04T02:43:54 #kisslinux <kiedtl> MueVoid: you didn't seem to be coming off as an asshole to me though
2021-03-04T02:44:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ^
2021-03-04T02:44:11 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I wasn't trying to but sometimes the way I type can seem like an asshole
2021-03-04T02:44:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> You're fine.
2021-03-04T02:44:30 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Ok
2021-03-04T02:44:38 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I'll probably join back on irc after I get it setup cya all
2021-03-04T02:45:00 #kisslinux <midfavila1> anyway on a potentially-equally-as-controversial-topic
2021-03-04T02:45:02 #kisslinux <midfavila1> filesystems
2021-03-04T02:45:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> which one do you use and why
2021-03-04T02:45:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> filesystems are bloat
2021-03-04T02:45:19 #kisslinux <kiedtl> FORTH blocks are the way to go
2021-03-04T02:45:19 #kisslinux <midfavila1> right of course
2021-03-04T02:45:25 #kisslinux <midfavila1> how could I be so blind
2021-03-04T02:45:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> thank you for this divine insight
2021-03-04T02:45:31 #kisslinux <kiedtl> block filesystems are the road to heaven
2021-03-04T02:45:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> fr though
2021-03-04T02:45:37 #kisslinux <travankor> forth blocks?
2021-03-04T02:45:42 #kisslinux <kiedtl> yeah
2021-03-04T02:45:52 #kisslinux <kiedtl> FORTH systems access storage in blocks
2021-03-04T02:45:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> of, say, 64x16 bytes
2021-03-04T02:46:06 #kisslinux <kiedtl> no files, folders, etc
2021-03-04T02:46:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> as God intended it
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> we have all gone astray, how sad
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <travankor> ah, forth ain't unix :p
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> it is
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <acheam> just... store things in ram? I don't see what everyone is fussing about
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <acheam> all you need is a for loop looping through every memory adress overwriting it with your data
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> forth is dangerously based
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i mean that literally
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> FORTH *is* unix
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> it's simple and coherent
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux * travankor confused
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> and that's all that matters
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if you don't know what you're doing you'll probably destroy your system with forth lmao
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila1: that could be said about loonix too
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> sure but I can't directly tell the kernel to change the contents of arbitrary memory addresses
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> afaik the forth interpreter can do that
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> no compilation needed unlike say C
2021-03-04T02:48:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> just beep-boop-bop panic time
2021-03-04T02:48:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >not using recursion
2021-03-04T02:48:34 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila1: FORTH does compile though
2021-03-04T02:48:42 #kisslinux <travankor> is there a based forth os that i can use?
2021-03-04T02:48:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> forth *is* an OS
2021-03-04T02:48:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> kind of
2021-03-04T02:48:50 #kisslinux <midfavila1> in a way
2021-03-04T02:48:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if you squint and look sideways
2021-03-04T02:49:00 #kisslinux <midfavila1> depends on your setup really
2021-03-04T02:49:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> precisely
2021-03-04T02:49:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but it's not really... used for building stuff we might use
2021-03-04T02:49:23 #kisslinux <kiedtl> travankor: take a look at-- uhh, nevermind
2021-03-04T02:49:25 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's mostly in embedded, high-performance mission critical stuff
2021-03-04T02:49:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> like, you know. the ISS
2021-03-04T02:49:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> they probably have FORTH stuff on there
2021-03-04T02:49:53 #kisslinux <kiedtl> not necessarily high-perf, FORTH has terrible perf unless it's on an arch that's designed with a stack-based OS in mind
2021-03-04T02:50:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well yeah
2021-03-04T02:50:09 #kisslinux <kiedtl> FORTH went on a few moon probes, idk about ISS
2021-03-04T02:50:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but if you're using FORTH for a real world task... like...
2021-03-04T02:50:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> wouldn't you use a stack-based system
2021-03-04T02:50:41 #kisslinux <travankor> iirc you design the hardware and software together with forth
2021-03-04T02:50:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> oh, actually
2021-03-04T02:50:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if you want to look at a FORTH OS
2021-03-04T02:50:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> look at collapseOS
2021-03-04T02:51:40 #kisslinux <travankor> so Forth hardware has fewer gates than other CPU's
2021-03-04T02:51:55 #kisslinux <travankor> modern CPUs have a lot of hacks to make C fast
2021-03-04T02:52:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> should just make an ISA based on the lambda calculus
2021-03-04T02:52:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> turing btfo
2021-03-04T02:52:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> we're in LISP land now
2021-03-04T02:53:02 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Oh, yeah, collapseOS is cool
2021-03-04T02:53:11 #kisslinux <kiedtl> it's for z80 arch, but it comes with an emulator
2021-03-04T02:53:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i remember finding it when it was first available
2021-03-04T02:53:16 #kisslinux <kiedtl> https://collapseos.org
2021-03-04T02:53:17 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ah, those were the days
2021-03-04T02:53:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> when the whole thing was written in Z80 asm
2021-03-04T02:53:32 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and building an S-100 machine seemed like a surmountable goal
2021-03-04T02:54:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> now I just larp on the internet as someone who knows some things about computers but not really
2021-03-04T02:55:41 #kisslinux <travankor> *sips*
2021-03-04T03:03:54 #kisslinux <acheam> this collapse stuff is wild
2021-03-04T03:05:25 #kisslinux <midfavila1> computers for the apocalypse
2021-03-04T03:05:35 #kisslinux <acheam> within 2030 according to this guy
2021-03-04T03:05:41 #kisslinux <kiedtl> yeah, the dude behind it is a bit crazy
2021-03-04T03:05:50 #kisslinux <kiedtl> acheam: seems like it's gonna happen a bit sooner
2021-03-04T03:05:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well, I wouldn't be surprised if something happened
2021-03-04T03:06:12 #kisslinux <acheam> lol
2021-03-04T03:06:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but something major within the next decade..? if the 10s were any indicator...
2021-03-04T03:06:17 #kisslinux * midfavila1 shrugs
2021-03-04T03:08:11 #kisslinux <travankor> kiedtl: i thought it was sarcasm
2021-03-04T03:08:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah nah it's not
2021-03-04T03:08:50 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the dude's serious
2021-03-04T03:09:00 #kisslinux <acheam> check out r/collapse
2021-03-04T03:09:17 #kisslinux <acheam> I mean, I see it happening within my lifetime for sure
2021-03-04T03:09:21 #kisslinux <acheam> but not by 2030
2021-03-04T03:09:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> on the one hand it's like
2021-03-04T03:09:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the cynic in me is totally "yeah it's gonna be any day now"
2021-03-04T03:09:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but the somewhat logical side is like "don't be a fucking idiot"
2021-03-04T03:10:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but then it turns around and goes "still just in case..."
2021-03-04T03:11:14 #kisslinux <travankor> wake up sheeple /s
2021-03-04T03:11:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> there's nothing wrong with emergency preparedness
2021-03-04T03:12:27 #kisslinux <travankor> >tfw Industrial Society and Its Future was right
2021-03-04T03:12:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i wouldn't go that far
2021-03-04T03:13:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but I will say that the muh solar crowd is part of the problem
2021-03-04T03:13:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and that nuclear is the only real solution short-term to our environmental crises
2021-03-04T03:13:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ideally thorium reactors
2021-03-04T03:13:43 #kisslinux <travankor> or F U S I O N
2021-03-04T03:13:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> fusion is a long-term thing
2021-03-04T03:13:57 #kisslinux <travankor> embrace the Dyson type 2 civilization
2021-03-04T03:14:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if we can get fusion going, or figure out like
2021-03-04T03:14:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> global-scale geothermal or hydro
2021-03-04T03:14:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> then yeah we're set for the time being
2021-03-04T03:14:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but until we have functionally limitless power we're fucked
2021-03-04T03:15:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> all the existing renewables we have are either severely limited or just fucking suck in terms of environmental impact
2021-03-04T03:16:32 #kisslinux <midfavila1> solar only really works in sunny areas (shocker), cells break down and need to be disposed of and remanufactured, sometimes in a relatively short time span (compared to other means of power), and they're expensive, not to mention hilariously inefficient
2021-03-04T03:16:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> wind only works in windy weather, but not *too* windy, otherwise it falls down and needs to be rebuilt. again, not great. and they also still suck at generating power
2021-03-04T03:17:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> hydro, of course, only works near rapids. but that requires either being a coastal area, or terraforming projects. which in the case of terraforming defeats the whole point of environmental benefits, and otherwise limits it to a very specific part of the world
2021-03-04T03:17:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> etc etc etc
2021-03-04T03:18:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> idk man I'm not an environmental scientist I just read shit on the net
2021-03-04T03:18:50 #kisslinux <midfavila1> maybe I don't actually have any clue about what I'm talking about. 's always possible
2021-03-04T03:18:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> on that note I'm gonna go make a sandwich
2021-03-04T03:19:04 #kisslinux <travankor> eureka
2021-03-04T03:20:44 #kisslinux <travankor> I think I read about this stuff a few years ago
2021-03-04T03:22:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i spend a bit too much time following it, honestly
2021-03-04T03:22:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but it's like... i'd rather spend time on it now and have it turn out to never happen than not spend time on it and then be double-fucked when it happens
2021-03-04T03:23:59 #kisslinux <travankor> I'm sure our 200IQ overlords Elon Musk and Bezos have it all figured out by now
2021-03-04T03:24:19 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah well guess what the sudden interest in mars is all about
2021-03-04T03:25:20 #kisslinux <travankor> Argent Tower amirite
2021-03-04T03:26:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i was thinking more "launch the rich and powerful to a terraformed planet and leave the rest of us to die" but sure
2021-03-04T03:26:28 #kisslinux <travankor> lol fair enough
2021-03-04T03:28:28 #kisslinux * kiedtl off
2021-03-04T03:31:26 #kisslinux <travankor> but seriously, I think fast breeder reactors followed by thorium is the best way to go
2021-03-04T03:32:53 #kisslinux <travankor> maybe in the short term carbon taxes, idk
2021-03-04T03:33:25 #kisslinux <midfavila1> lmao governments can't regulate for shit
2021-03-04T03:33:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> like prime example
2021-03-04T03:33:32 #kisslinux <midfavila1> plastic straws
2021-03-04T03:33:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> plastic straws are a huge no-no now, but nobody seems to give a shit about disposable plastic bags
2021-03-04T03:34:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> or, you know, those macho brads who drive trucks because it's Manly:tm:
2021-03-04T03:34:49 #kisslinux <travankor> I thought this was mostly an American thing
2021-03-04T03:35:32 #kisslinux <travankor> MUH LIBERTY
2021-03-04T03:35:38 #kisslinux <travankor> MUH FREEDUM
2021-03-04T03:35:44 #kisslinux <travankor> DONT TREAD ON MUH
2021-03-04T03:37:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's always an american thing
2021-03-04T03:37:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> no offense to the americans in the room-
2021-03-04T03:38:07 #kisslinux <travankor> on the other hand, it's pretty easy to get firearms in US
2021-03-04T03:38:26 #kisslinux <travankor> so when shit hits the fan, things are gonna be pretty lit
2021-03-04T03:38:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> firearms are like literally the worst possible weapon to use in a collapse scenario
2021-03-04T03:39:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> loud, can break easily, depends on ammunition that isn't easily prepared in the field
2021-03-04T03:39:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'd rather a lower-tech weapon
2021-03-04T03:39:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> such as b i g    k n i f e
2021-03-04T03:40:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> or like a crossbow or some shit idfk
2021-03-04T03:41:05 #kisslinux <travankor> shuriken ftw
2021-03-04T03:41:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> :v
2021-03-04T03:41:22 #kisslinux <travankor> but goat farmers in Afghanistan seem to doing ok with their home-made AK's
2021-03-04T03:41:38 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah well they need ammo from somewhere
2021-03-04T03:41:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ultimately in this situation you have two choices
2021-03-04T03:41:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> return to monke or progress to crab
2021-03-04T03:42:33 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and by that I mean pull a mad max or just hide in your basement
2021-03-04T03:42:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'd rather just hide in my basement tbqh
2021-03-04T03:43:18 #kisslinux <travankor> yeah
2021-03-04T03:43:33 #kisslinux <midfavila1> "The one who does not fight, lasts the longest"
2021-03-04T03:43:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> -Sun Tzu probably
2021-03-04T03:43:57 #kisslinux <travankor> Dwarf fortress simulator here we go
2021-03-04T03:44:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >not Cataclysm
2021-03-04T03:45:00 #kisslinux <travankor> i can't get Cataclysm to run the last time i tried it
2021-03-04T03:45:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if you're on kiss just use the kiss-games repo
2021-03-04T03:45:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ellison (latest stable) is packaged and runs nicely
2021-03-04T03:45:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> fair warning I hope you have a pretty decent CPU
2021-03-04T03:46:10 #kisslinux <travankor> decent?
2021-03-04T03:46:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah like probably at least a 2.5ghz quad core i'd say
2021-03-04T03:46:38 #kisslinux <midfavila1> nothing android-tier
2021-03-04T03:46:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> basically if you can play DF at decent speeds C:DDA should be p good
2021-03-04T03:47:57 #kisslinux <travankor> cataclysm seems pretty focused on the overworld
2021-03-04T03:48:12 #kisslinux <travankor> not sure if there's underground levels or stuff
2021-03-04T03:48:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> there are
2021-03-04T03:48:55 #kisslinux <midfavila1> usually around 10
2021-03-04T03:50:29 #kisslinux <travankor> https://cddawiki.chezzo.com/cdda_wiki/index.php?title=Mine
2021-03-04T03:50:45 #kisslinux <travankor> interesting, seems like you will die if you too far into a mine :P
2021-03-04T03:50:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Mines are... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
2021-03-04T03:50:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> don't go there unless you're very well equipped
2021-03-04T03:52:39 #kisslinux <travankor> tfw you're trying to escape the zombie apocalypse but end encountering a  Lovecraftion nightmare instead
2021-03-04T03:52:57 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that's the game in a nutshell
2021-03-04T03:53:42 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if you can stomach the raw cheese the game throws at you sometimes it's really fun
2021-03-04T03:53:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> lots of depth for character builds
2021-03-04T03:53:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> like a lot
2021-03-04T03:54:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> also in case anyone was wondering bayonets are great at opening plastic packaging
2021-03-04T03:56:07 #kisslinux <travankor> :v
2021-03-04T03:56:25 #kisslinux <midfavila1> hey man when you have to open a block of cheese and all you have is a bayonet
2021-03-04T03:56:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> just sayin
2021-03-04T03:56:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ya got options
2021-03-04T03:57:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> gotta get my egg salad sandwich fix at midnight
2021-03-04T03:59:42 #kisslinux <kiedtl> "Look at me ma, I fixed an egg salad sandwich with a century-old bayonet"
2021-03-04T03:59:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> basically
2021-03-04T03:59:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> amlmost wish I could say that
2021-03-04T04:00:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> s/amlmost/almost
2021-03-04T04:00:09 #kisslinux <kissbot> <kiedtl> almost wish I could say that
2021-03-04T04:00:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> once I have two bayonets I can do the whole "gee mid why does your mom let you have *two* bayonets?"
2021-03-04T04:00:30 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-03-04T04:00:40 #kisslinux * kiedtl off, for real this time
2021-03-04T04:01:11 #kisslinux <travankor> ^^
2021-03-04T04:21:25 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hi
2021-03-04T04:21:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> Hello again.
2021-03-04T04:24:17 #kisslinux <acheam> top of the mornin to ya, testuser_[m]
2021-03-04T04:29:29 #kisslinux <merakor> Everytime I see or hear Sun Tzu, I am reminded of the "Meet the Soldier" clip
2021-03-04T04:29:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> that was the intended imagery ye
2021-03-04T04:29:52 #kisslinux <merakor> And I really can't take the conversation seriously
2021-03-04T04:30:52 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-03-04T05:52:05 #kisslinux <Lissy> Hello
2021-03-04T05:52:54 #kisslinux <Lissy> just wondering, k1ss.org is dead forever?
2021-03-04T06:16:47 #kisslinux <noocsharp> unless something has changed, the plan is that some particularly dedicated kiss cultists plan to acquire the domain and get the site back up
2021-03-04T06:17:15 #kisslinux <noocsharp> wow, i should have read that before sending it
2021-03-04T06:35:38 #kisslinux <MueVoid> So it's been a while since I did a KISS install and I always use encryption with tinyramfs. Is root for the device the encryption is on so for example /dev/sda2 or the mapped device /dev/mapper/luks
2021-03-04T06:40:00 #kisslinux <konimex> should be the latter iirc
2021-03-04T06:40:28 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Ok thank you
2021-03-04T06:59:26 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Hmmm no luck trys to mount /dev/sda2 still for the root
2021-03-04T06:59:57 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Do you happen to have a config I can look at?
2021-03-04T07:00:49 #kisslinux <konimex> sorry, can't help you there as I never encrypt /
2021-03-04T07:00:58 #kisslinux <MueVoid> No worries
2021-03-04T07:12:54 #kisslinux <protonesso> lul
2021-03-04T07:19:30 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Well I can get it to let me open the luks device but it still seems to try to mount /dev/sda2 instead of my luks device. I've tried many values for both luks_root and root stumped :/
2021-03-04T07:44:56 #kisslinux <travankor> some particularly dedicated kiss cultists plan -> What sort of dark magic did Dylan teach?
2021-03-04T07:46:40 #kisslinux <travankor> Lissy: imo getkiss.org is the most logical choice if k1ss.org is stolen by domain squatters
2021-03-04T08:02:48 #kisslinux <travankor> MueVoid: try using UUIDs instead
2021-03-04T08:05:59 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> since getkiss.org was abandoned and not mentioned anywhere now, advertising it would be just as hard as k1ss.net which we already have
2021-03-04T08:09:28 #kisslinux <travankor> wasn't getkiss.org was the original domain for kiss
2021-03-04T08:10:20 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> yeah but its replaced by k1ss.org everywhere
2021-03-04T08:10:31 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> and getkiss.org looks like it costs 1k$$
2021-03-04T08:11:06 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> checked on a few sites
2021-03-04T08:11:10 #kisslinux <travankor> :o
2021-03-04T08:11:32 #kisslinux <travankor> I doubt Dylan paid that much for it
2021-03-04T08:12:56 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> was it getkiss or getk1ss
2021-03-04T08:13:57 #kisslinux <travankor> https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/csfmr6/kiss_linux_a_new_independent_distribution/
2021-03-04T08:13:57 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> oh i think the domain is already taken that's why
2021-03-04T08:14:04 #kisslinux <travankor> getkiss
2021-03-04T08:14:24 #kisslinux <travankor> oh true
2021-03-04T08:16:59 #kisslinux <travankor> i'm seeing getkiss.org show up more on old searches than k1ss.org
2021-03-04T08:43:55 #kisslinux <travankor> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139393.0 dwarf fortress apocalypse edition
2021-03-04T09:23:18 #kisslinux <travankor> collapse os author rejects git as too bloated and modern
2021-03-04T09:23:37 #kisslinux <travankor> also "I also have a feeling that not everyone is comfortable discussing
2021-03-04T09:23:37 #kisslinux <travankor> civilizational collapse publicly, so this new alias might allow
2021-03-04T09:23:40 #kisslinux <travankor> discussions which would otherwise not have taken place."
2021-03-04T09:23:46 #kisslinux <travankor> lol
2021-03-04T09:31:27 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> <travankor "collapse os author rejects git a"> what does he use then
2021-03-04T09:33:18 #kisslinux <travankor> GNU rcs
2021-03-04T09:33:49 #kisslinux <travankor> https://www.gnu.org/software/rcs/
2021-03-04T10:33:43 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Got my install done :)  well basically got some more packages to install later today and need to package some things but basically have it working
2021-03-04T10:39:24 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nice muevoid
2021-03-04T10:39:40 #kisslinux <MueVoid>  Thanks it's been a while
2021-03-04T10:39:54 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I missed KISS lol
2021-03-04T10:44:42 #kisslinux <claudia02> o/
2021-03-04T10:45:19 #kisslinux <claudia02> testuser[m] : look what I have just found, another adblocker for webkit. Though its written in rust.
2021-03-04T10:48:18 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> which one ?
2021-03-04T10:50:58 #kisslinux <claudia02> oops
2021-03-04T10:51:23 #kisslinux <claudia02> forgot to paste :v
2021-03-04T10:51:24 #kisslinux <claudia02> https://github.com/dudik/blockit
2021-03-04T10:53:19 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nice, I'll check it out
2021-03-04T10:53:37 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> btw claudia did js work properly for you on any webkit browser packages on KISS ?
2021-03-04T10:53:44 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> they all just freeze for me whenever js loads
2021-03-04T10:56:13 #kisslinux <claudia02> Yes it worked pretty O.K
2021-03-04T10:56:24 #kisslinux <claudia02> no matter wayland/X
2021-03-04T10:56:59 #kisslinux <claudia02> just a few pages were "broken" and did not render correctly, e.g gitlab was not usable but it did not crash
2021-03-04T10:57:05 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hmm
2021-03-04T10:57:20 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> and nothing even gets printed in logs for some reason
2021-03-04T10:58:08 #kisslinux <claudia02> until I dropped maintainership I used it and it was ok. Did you update the webkit version?
2021-03-04T11:09:53 #kisslinux <claudia02> maybe MueVoid will install webkit again and do some testing (:
2021-03-04T11:15:31 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> claudia02: I had the same issue earlier too when you were maintainer, and even after updating it
2021-03-04T11:15:44 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i don't think glibc would have anything to do with it, maybe icu?
2021-03-04T11:18:06 #kisslinux <travankor> how is blockit vs the existing blocker?
2021-03-04T11:19:32 #kisslinux <travankor> also webkit crashes might be a gstreamer bug
2021-03-04T11:20:22 #kisslinux <travankor> webkit works well on alpine
2021-03-04T11:20:30 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> mysteriously js worked when i DISABLED js support in lariza's  code
2021-03-04T11:20:40 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i heard someone here saying "forth is unix", which is not quite accurate. unix is basically POSIX, and POSIX is literally defined in C.
2021-03-04T11:21:20 #kisslinux <travankor> sh4rm4^bnc: yeah that's what i thought as well att
2021-03-04T11:21:58 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> there might be many languages of the day (like go or rust) passing by, but i dont think that's ever going to change :)
2021-03-04T11:22:47 #kisslinux <travankor> rust dynamically links on top of libc hence it's never going to replace C
2021-03-04T11:23:58 #kisslinux <travankor> afaik interactive forth systems are kind of like smalltalk environments
2021-03-04T11:24:09 #kisslinux <travankor> (might be wrong idk)
2021-03-04T11:24:54 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> afaik the most well-known forth program to date is the bios implementation on old powerpcs, open...something
2021-03-04T11:27:52 #kisslinux <travankor> https://colorforth.github.io/ide.html
2021-03-04T11:28:48 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> reads like perl
2021-03-04T11:29:54 #kisslinux <travankor> so write once, read never ;)
2021-03-04T11:30:14 #kisslinux <claudia02> testuser[m] : So I guess you are not applying the musl patches on glibc?
2021-03-04T11:30:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Firmware
2021-03-04T11:30:52 #kisslinux <claudia02> maybe its worth trying out in a musl chroot and run.
2021-03-04T11:33:26 #kisslinux <travankor> i vaguely remember that apple power macs use Open Firmware
2021-03-04T11:33:29 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> oh it might be cuz of the musl patches, i didn't skip applying those, will try chroot also
2021-03-04T11:33:37 #kisslinux <travankor> s/remember/remembered
2021-03-04T11:33:38 #kisslinux <kissbot> <travankor> i vaguely remembered that apple power macs use Open Firmware
2021-03-04T11:34:06 #kisslinux <travankor> a shame that modern powerpc firmware is C++
2021-03-04T11:35:36 #kisslinux <travankor> and better than uefi which is unironically a repackaged ms-dos
2021-03-04T11:48:19 #kisslinux <travankor> apparently forth is also deployed on space avionics
2021-03-04T11:48:57 #kisslinux <travankor> makes sense since space-hardened electronics are quite expensive (limited rom space)
2021-03-04T11:51:38 #kisslinux <travankor> hmm, pre-webdev software and electronics is pretty neat
2021-03-04T13:15:08 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> funny that Forth is mentioned, I just came across it the first time yesterday through this guy: https://github.com/benhoyt/third#readme
2021-03-04T13:19:34 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Nice
2021-03-04T13:19:53 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I just happen to be playing with dosbox rn, maybe after win95 is done installing I can check this out :>
2021-03-04T13:43:09 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> Man... I have an old floppy drive but i don't know where my old Wing Commander disks are :(
2021-03-04T14:54:15 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> claudia02: looks like it's broken on both glibc and musl... tried from a chroot
2021-03-04T14:54:23 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> ill try building the old version still
2021-03-04T15:21:38 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nah even old one is broken, freezes for a sec then gets stuck at a blank screen with color of gtk theme
2021-03-04T15:25:10 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> anyone else using webkit?
2021-03-04T15:27:01 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i don't, would it be helpful if i tried it out?
2021-03-04T15:28:29 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> yeah if it doesn't take too long to compile, just build lariza and try to open github
2021-03-04T15:32:00 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> webkit2gtk?
2021-03-04T15:33:40 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> yeah webkit2gtk, lariza is the browser
2021-03-04T15:39:54 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> ok biuilding now
2021-03-04T17:12:15 #kisslinux <merakor> I only saw yesterday's bearssl discussion now
2021-03-04T17:12:34 #kisslinux <acheam> anything to add to it?
2021-03-04T17:12:39 #kisslinux <merakor> Most of the packages that "use" openssl actually uses libcurl not openssl itself
2021-03-04T17:13:01 #kisslinux <merakor> So you don't actually need libressl for lots of packages
2021-03-04T17:13:05 #kisslinux <merakor> Including cmake
2021-03-04T17:13:11 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> :shock:
2021-03-04T17:13:20 #kisslinux <merakor> Build curl with bearssl and voila, you don't even need to rebuild other packages
2021-03-04T17:14:30 #kisslinux <merakor> I switched back to libressl on september, but actually reverted the change a few days after, so Carbs still uses bearssl by default
2021-03-04T17:14:47 #kisslinux <acheam> interesting, thanks
2021-03-04T17:14:54 #kisslinux <acheam> do you find tls 1.3 do be an issue?
2021-03-04T17:14:59 #kisslinux <merakor> The big issue is python
2021-03-04T17:15:09 #kisslinux <merakor> Well, not really it's not even an RFC yet
2021-03-04T17:15:09 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> how big of an effort would it take to get rust to build with bearssl ?
2021-03-04T17:15:25 #kisslinux <merakor> Man idk, I don't even attempt to build rust with libressl
2021-03-04T17:15:58 #kisslinux <merakor> It would be an agony
2021-03-04T17:16:00 #kisslinux <acheam> what browser do you use?
2021-03-04T17:16:05 #kisslinux <merakor> I use surf
2021-03-04T17:16:07 #kisslinux <merakor> So webkit
2021-03-04T17:16:13 #kisslinux <acheam> okay
2021-03-04T17:16:16 #kisslinux * midfavila cringes
2021-03-04T17:16:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> oof, webshit
2021-03-04T17:16:28 #kisslinux * acheam didn't mean to start a browser war
2021-03-04T17:16:33 #kisslinux * merakor cringes back at midfavila
2021-03-04T17:16:40 #kisslinux * merakor cringes at self
2021-03-04T17:16:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> cringe at everything
2021-03-04T17:16:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> everything is bad
2021-03-04T17:16:54 #kisslinux <acheam> no, don't internalize the cringe
2021-03-04T17:16:57 #kisslinux * testuser_[m] dies
2021-03-04T17:16:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's too late
2021-03-04T17:17:00 #kisslinux <merakor> lmao
2021-03-04T17:17:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've become an embodiment of cringe
2021-03-04T17:17:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> greater cringe elemental
2021-03-04T17:17:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> altho I've heard that the suckless team is looking for a different engine for surf
2021-03-04T17:17:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> ala dillo or netsurf
2021-03-04T17:17:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> which would be unbelievably based
2021-03-04T17:17:50 #kisslinux <merakor> I am pretty happy about webkit
2021-03-04T17:18:10 #kisslinux <merakor> A browser that can actually run shit without being too gigantic
2021-03-04T17:18:38 #kisslinux <merakor> Why use a GUI browser when you can't even display 90% of the web?
2021-03-04T17:18:56 #kisslinux <merakor> Web is terrible, but I have to use it
2021-03-04T17:19:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> generally I find that most situations that fit that description tend to be irrelevant and/or easily supplanted by native programs
2021-03-04T17:19:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> see: muh streaming
2021-03-04T17:19:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> muh social media
2021-03-04T17:19:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> etc
2021-03-04T17:20:10 #kisslinux <merakor> I mean, I don't use the browser for either of those anyway
2021-03-04T17:20:58 #kisslinux <merakor> Back to the bearssl point, my only pain in the ass is python
2021-03-04T17:21:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> right ssl libs
2021-03-04T17:21:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> only time I've used bearssl was on termux
2021-03-04T17:21:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> It Worked:tm:
2021-03-04T17:21:42 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> it's not possible to just statically link libressl into python right ?
2021-03-04T17:21:43 #kisslinux <merakor> Python can build without ssl support, but then you will miss out on the ssl module used by lots of python projects
2021-03-04T17:22:48 #kisslinux <merakor> testuser_[m]: Yeah, you actually can do that
2021-03-04T17:23:13 #kisslinux <merakor> I usually do that on obscure libs that obscure programs use
2021-03-04T17:25:31 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> have you tried it merakor ? for me it just silently failed
2021-03-04T17:26:33 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i think i had just removed shared libs from libressl
2021-03-04T17:26:43 #kisslinux <merakor> Not actually I just assumed it :^) Let me actually try it
2021-03-04T17:30:40 #kisslinux <merakor> Nope, it failed, because it tries to link shared libraries, even though I had LDFLAGS static and --disable-shared
2021-03-04T17:30:50 #kisslinux <merakor> I bet this is libtool
2021-03-04T17:31:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> those libs, at it again
2021-03-04T17:31:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> always ruining software
2021-03-04T17:31:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> smh
2021-03-04T17:31:57 #kisslinux <merakor> It is not even libtool
2021-03-04T17:32:40 #kisslinux <merakor> Gotta love it when build configuration systems ignore your configuration
2021-03-04T17:33:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> upstream knows best
2021-03-04T17:33:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> silence, user
2021-03-04T17:34:43 #kisslinux <merakor> libtool is the king of being a piece of shit in this area
2021-03-04T17:34:57 #kisslinux <merakor> It straight up ignores your configuration and flags
2021-03-04T17:35:14 #kisslinux <merakor> LDFLAGS -static is straight up removed by libtool and you have to pass -all-static
2021-03-04T17:35:26 #kisslinux <merakor> Which isn't even a real ld flag
2021-03-04T17:36:10 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> for building static python you'll need to do a ton of other crap and even then it'll be half broken
2021-03-04T17:36:14 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> see kiss-static build file
2021-03-04T17:41:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> static python has it's own arguments you have to pass to make happen
2021-03-04T17:42:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> it isn't as easy as LDFLAGS=-static --static CFLAGS=-static
2021-03-04T17:42:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> in the end I got a fully static python with all the right modules; I had to delete a single line from a single file after install so that meson would build
2021-03-04T17:44:21 #kisslinux <varbhat> hello
2021-03-04T17:44:27 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hi
2021-03-04T17:44:54 #kisslinux <varbhat> what are downsides of static python? does it have incompatibilites with some modules?
2021-03-04T17:45:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> not afaik
2021-03-04T17:45:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> the downsides are "static linking is insecure!!!" and "static linking is soooo 1980s!"
2021-03-04T17:45:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> downsides are... idk most projects won't help you if you have issues because they 'dont support nonstandard python configurations' whatever the fuck that means
2021-03-04T17:45:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's Deprecated:tm:
2021-03-04T17:46:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> so deprecated their wiki has a page on how to do it
2021-03-04T17:46:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> and yet > unsupported
2021-03-04T17:46:20 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> the only downside i've run into is standard packages that weren't baked in on compile time
2021-03-04T17:46:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> the forbidden jutsu scroll must be removed and sealed away
2021-03-04T17:46:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> for great justice
2021-03-04T17:46:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> you have to create a list of modules you want to be built otherwise it just does none
2021-03-04T17:46:55 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> bruh
2021-03-04T17:47:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-static/blob/main/extra/python/files/Setup.local
2021-03-04T17:47:13 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> ^ yep, which if you don't know whatyou need ahead of time is a little annoying but it's not a huge issue
2021-03-04T17:47:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> you can do a few things; build the shared version and peak at the log to see what was built, look at the skeleton file Python provides and uncomment the commented out ones
2021-03-04T17:47:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> probably the best way
2021-03-04T17:49:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> the python build script at KISS-static isn't the one I had working, for some reason I changed it. Let's just say it wasn't fun - couldn't get pip to build the 'traditional' way
2021-03-04T17:49:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> so i used the bootstrap script
2021-03-04T17:49:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> http://ix.io/2RG1 use that
2021-03-04T18:41:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/desktop/firstrun/qnx621.png
2021-03-04T18:41:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> how is QNX so aesthetic
2021-03-04T18:41:39 #kisslinux <varbhat> which gui toolkit do you like the most?
2021-03-04T18:41:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> QNX Photon smh
2021-03-04T18:42:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> but considering that's only available on QNX, Xaw and GTK2 are also acceptable
2021-03-04T18:42:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> MOTIF is okay too
2021-03-04T18:42:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> XForms looks alright but also nothing was written in it
2021-03-04T18:42:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> so
2021-03-04T18:43:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> ideally we'd all be using display postscript but that ship sailed four decades ago
2021-03-04T20:05:45 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> webkit2gtk and lariza both built and installed on my VM
2021-03-04T20:07:35 #kisslinux <claudia02> the question is does it run? :p
2021-03-04T20:07:58 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> yeah, i was able to start it and open github.com
2021-03-04T20:08:48 #kisslinux <claudia02> Do you have any additional packages installed? there are quite a few conditionals in the buildfile.
2021-03-04T20:08:52 #kisslinux <claudia02> ok nice.
2021-03-04T20:09:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> <varbhat> [18:42:56] what are downsides of static python? does it have incompatibilites with some modules?
2021-03-04T20:09:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> static python is almost useless, as many py packages are written with C support stuff that depends on dlopen
2021-03-04T20:10:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> ^
2021-03-04T20:11:21 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> merakor, if you want to *only* link libssl static, you can hack something like "-Wl,--push-state -Wl,--static -lssl -lcrypto -Wl,--pop-state" into the build system instead of just -lssl -lcrypto
2021-03-04T20:11:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> unclear what benefits are to be had as far as the interpreter goes as well. we already get a massive speed boost from the build changes we adopted from debian/fedora/whomever
2021-03-04T20:12:07 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> s/-Wl,--static/-Wl,-Bstatic/
2021-03-04T20:12:08 #kisslinux <kissbot> <sh4rm4^bnc> merakor, if you want to *only* link libssl static, you can hack something like "-Wl,--push-state -Wl,-Bstatic -lssl -lcrypto -Wl,--pop-state" into the build system instead of just -lssl -lcrypto
2021-03-04T20:12:56 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> testuser_[m] claudia02 http://0x0.st/-PBo.png here it is running github.  let me know if there's any packages you want to confirm whether I have
2021-03-04T20:14:33 #kisslinux <claudia02> ominous_anonymou: there is gst-plugins-base openjpeg2 libtasn1 which enables stuff.
2021-03-04T20:17:06 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i have libjpeg-turbo instead of openjpeg2
2021-03-04T20:17:20 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i don't have libtasn1
2021-03-04T20:17:48 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i have gst-plugins-base and gst-plugins
2021-03-04T20:18:00 #kisslinux <claudia02> All right, this is just interesting for testuser to compare their setup.
2021-03-04T20:44:16 #kisslinux <acheam> testing weechat relay
2021-03-04T20:44:21 #kisslinux <acheam> coolio
2021-03-04T20:54:31 #kisslinux <ctb0> kiss l | cut -d ' ' -f 1 | xargs kiss-maintainer | grep Araps | wc -l
2021-03-04T20:54:33 #kisslinux <ctb0> 68
2021-03-04T20:54:41 #kisslinux <ctb0> miss you Dylan :(
2021-03-04T20:55:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> dylan presley
2021-03-04T20:55:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> Woop, found a patch to get xosview running on musl
2021-03-04T20:55:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> Based Void maintainers strike again
2021-03-04T20:56:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> now I can show that I really do run my laptop at 800mhz, like a kool kid
2021-03-04T20:56:19 #kisslinux <acheam> were not going to be able to poach libressl patches anymore from them though
2021-03-04T20:57:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> if it gets to the point where most of the packages available would need to be patched for libressl then we can probably bring up changing the default provider with dilyn again
2021-03-04T20:57:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> until then it's a nothing burger
2021-03-04T20:58:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> precisely
2021-03-04T20:58:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> Currently I am unconcerned. Do we even have any packages besides rust and qt5 that are patched for libressl?
2021-03-04T20:59:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> >rust
2021-03-04T20:59:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> >qt5
2021-03-04T20:59:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> i see no problem in not patching these
2021-03-04T21:00:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> also busybox
2021-03-04T21:00:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean the rust patch is literally just a version change
2021-03-04T21:00:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> fuck, okay, fair enough
2021-03-04T21:01:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-03-04T21:01:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> busybox would actually be an issue to maintain independently-
2021-03-04T21:01:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> it jut cts ut some suff from wgettous
2021-03-04T21:01:29 #kisslinux * midfavila blinks
2021-03-04T21:01:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's smaller than my qt5 patch
2021-03-04T21:01:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> just cuts*
2021-03-04T21:01:39 #kisslinux <dilyn> sry
2021-03-04T21:01:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> Hwat in the world, Bobby?
2021-03-04T21:03:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> something something blame libinput
2021-03-04T21:03:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> blame devault
2021-03-04T21:03:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's his fault
2021-03-04T21:03:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> that or poeterring
2021-03-04T21:03:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-03-04T21:04:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> the gemini mailing list is crucifying him today
2021-03-04T21:04:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> poeterring or devault?
2021-03-04T21:04:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> for the high crime of *checks notes* not being subscribed to the list but daring to email it
2021-03-04T21:04:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> drew
2021-03-04T21:04:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh
2021-03-04T21:04:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah that's a bit silly
2021-03-04T21:05:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> par for the course :v
2021-03-04T21:05:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> nerds bullying other, lesser nerds
2021-03-04T21:06:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's funny because ddevault hosts a lot of gemini stuff, no?
2021-03-04T21:06:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> yesn't
2021-03-04T21:06:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> what all do these people do that make them better than him lmfao
2021-03-04T21:06:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> some of his blog posts are mirrored on gemini
2021-03-04T21:06:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> and like that's it
2021-03-04T21:06:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> meh
2021-03-04T21:06:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> he's just a guy in the gemini world
2021-03-04T21:06:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> whereas i imagine most of the people on the lists are developers
2021-03-04T21:06:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> either way. libressl is here to stay until someone makes it untenable :v
2021-03-04T21:06:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> wow I love our new BDFL no
2021-03-04T21:06:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> s/no/now
2021-03-04T21:06:56 #kisslinux <kissbot> <midfavila> wow I love our new BDFL now
2021-03-04T21:08:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> dhjklsasd this is such a cool picture
2021-03-04T21:08:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://i.ibb.co/0ZhXDyN/Severus-scene-smol.png
2021-03-04T21:16:40 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dilyn: probably off-topic, but ddevault is a massive jerk and is rather infamous for having bullied and insulted people for no reason at all at the past... so I have no sympathy for seeing him get a taste of his own medicine >:>
2021-03-04T21:18:02 #kisslinux <ctb0> i know that source hut pages does work with gemini, so that's kind of neat
2021-03-04T21:19:29 #kisslinux <ctb0> let me tell you guys typing "gkiss" into a search engine does not find the results i was looking for
2021-03-04T21:19:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> can confirm that
2021-03-04T21:19:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's, uh
2021-03-04T21:19:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> hm
2021-03-04T21:19:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah
2021-03-04T21:19:59 #kisslinux <ctb0> do you have a link to the project?
2021-03-04T21:20:13 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I can already see the search results, despite not having tried it, lol
2021-03-04T21:20:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> github.com/gkisslinux
2021-03-04T21:20:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> git-bruuuuuuuuuuh
2021-03-04T21:23:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> kiedtl: I mean I don't care one way or the other for drew, what's happening to him here is just a very good case for what I said about the gemini ml the other day lol
2021-03-04T21:23:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> "can I be CC'd on replies because I'm not subbed" "no cuck fuck yourself lmao"
2021-03-04T21:23:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay well if you want people to cc you on every post that's still pretty dumb
2021-03-04T21:24:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's common practice to request being CC'd on emails relevant to your inquiry
2021-03-04T21:24:57 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> kiedtl, i've been idling with ddevault in various chans and can't confirm that. what's true though is that he doesn't want to waste time with idiots
2021-03-04T21:24:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> i get forty emails an hour from the gemini list some days. Don't blame people for not wanting to sub to that. There were talks a few weeks ago about splitting up the ML to lower volume
2021-03-04T21:25:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> I think everybody can agree with that sh4 :)
2021-03-04T21:25:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> so he's not the cozy CoC "let's be welcome and inclusive" kinda guiy
2021-03-04T21:26:39 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> just like linus was before his castration "vacation"
2021-03-04T21:27:06 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-03-04T21:27:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay well if it's standard practice then that's on me. i'm admittedly not familiar with mailing list culture
2021-03-04T21:27:52 #kisslinux <kiedtl> sh4rm4^bnc: yes, but calling someone retarded and blocking them when they ask for an explanation, or telling another individual that their ancestors deserved to be massacred at wounded knee is... not okay at all.
2021-03-04T21:27:55 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> really when i hear that "welcoming and inclusive" bullshit i feel the urge to vomit
2021-03-04T21:28:01 #kisslinux <kiedtl> same
2021-03-04T21:28:19 #kisslinux <kiedtl> (I'm replying to what mid said)
2021-03-04T21:28:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> idk man people are lame
2021-03-04T21:28:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> i just want to watch my dumb flash videos and pretend it's still 2006
2021-03-04T21:29:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's just funny because there are a million reasons for ddevault to get shit treatment but like, not for this XD
2021-03-04T21:29:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> miniclip.com #bringitback
2021-03-04T21:29:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> nah dude coolmathgames
2021-03-04T21:29:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> or armorgames
2021-03-04T21:29:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> or like, kongregate.
2021-03-04T21:33:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay cool xosview is packaged now
2021-03-04T21:33:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> can finally standardize my monitor setup across all my machines
2021-03-04T21:37:06 #kisslinux <acheam> kiedtl: do you have a link to the wounded knee thing? that's fucked up
2021-03-04T21:38:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Yeah, give me a moment to grep some IRC logs and I can give you a couple links
2021-03-04T21:39:11 #kisslinux <acheam> Thanks!
2021-03-04T21:40:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> so reading about yet another America Moment
2021-03-04T21:40:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> turns out that they sent fourty native cops after some dude on a reserve in 1890 as a prelude to that battle lmao
2021-03-04T21:40:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> talk about excessive
2021-03-04T21:41:35 #kisslinux * sh4rm4^bnc goes back playing sid meier's colonization on dosbox
2021-03-04T21:43:38 #kisslinux <acheam> the orig?
2021-03-04T21:43:44 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> yep
2021-03-04T21:43:54 #kisslinux <acheam> how is it?
2021-03-04T21:44:00 #kisslinux <acheam> I've only ever played V
2021-03-04T21:44:19 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> https://www.old-games.ru/game/download/19.html
2021-03-04T21:44:33 #kisslinux <kiedtl> acheam: http://0x0.st/-PM-.txt
2021-03-04T21:44:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> quite cool, it makes me want to make a remake
2021-03-04T21:45:41 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> (because as almost all dos games, the UI is kinda awkward and completely proprietary)
2021-03-04T21:47:14 #kisslinux <acheam> yep that's fucked up
2021-03-04T21:47:27 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dos games are nice :<
2021-03-04T21:47:35 #kisslinux <acheam> I guess I'll just switch to self hosting sourcehut when it leaves alpha
2021-03-04T21:47:49 #kisslinux <acheam> that's the final nail into the coffin
2021-03-04T21:47:50 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> where's the sauce for those claims
2021-03-04T21:48:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> sh4rm4^bnc: I mean... considering what I've seen of ddevault, it definitely sounds like something he'd do.
2021-03-04T21:48:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> "sounds like" is not a justification for tar-and-feathering
2021-03-04T21:48:35 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I've personally seen him bullying people he disagrees with.
2021-03-04T21:49:02 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Just google "sircmpwn ban" and see what you get.
2021-03-04T21:49:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> the entire second half of that fediverse post is lame kek
2021-03-04T21:49:47 #kisslinux <ctb0> that mastadon user seems to be the racist one not devault
2021-03-04T21:49:57 #kisslinux <ctb0> from their bio "if we aren't mutuals and you're white: don't reply to my posts"
2021-03-04T21:50:12 #kisslinux <kiedtl> not an excuse for ddevaults behavior
2021-03-04T21:50:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> definitely not
2021-03-04T21:50:28 #kisslinux <kiedtl> anyways... this is probably the wrong channel to litigate this... sorry for bringing it up here
2021-03-04T21:50:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> if he did such things then yeah that's at the very least rude and not needed
2021-03-04T21:51:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> what I will say is that the rhetoric of their post makes it easy to be unsympathetic to them
2021-03-04T21:51:40 #kisslinux <ctb0> yeah, i imagine if devault said that to the mastadon user he wouldn't have missed the opportunity to screencap and share. so i have my suspcious he said his ancestors should have died at wounded knee
2021-03-04T21:51:40 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> but the guy claiming these things seems to make it up, otherwise he'd attach a screenshot oslt
2021-03-04T21:52:04 #kisslinux <ctb0> ^
2021-03-04T21:52:23 #kisslinux <kiedtl> one sec
2021-03-04T21:52:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> looked up the "sircmpwn ban" too btw
2021-03-04T21:52:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> going off the HN post that showed up at the top of search results this is pretty uh, normal.
2021-03-04T21:53:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> keeping devs cleanroomed during RE work is kind of needed because of muh eyepee laws
2021-03-04T21:53:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9483618 (assuming this is what you were referring to)
2021-03-04T21:54:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Uh no
2021-03-04T21:56:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> well most of what I'm seeing is minecraft drama.
2021-03-04T21:57:38 #kisslinux <ctb0> he did get banned from lobste.rs for shilling sourcehut
2021-03-04T21:57:42 #kisslinux <ctb0> https://lobste.rs/u/ddevault
2021-03-04T21:57:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> something ten years ago to do with calculators
2021-03-04T21:57:42 #kisslinux <kiedtl> no
2021-03-04T21:57:54 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ctb0: no, he was banned for being an obnoxious jerk.
2021-03-04T21:58:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah well welcome to the 'net
2021-03-04T21:58:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> how tough are ya
2021-03-04T21:58:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> even if he said an offensive thang
2021-03-04T21:58:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> did you never write shit when you were drunk
2021-03-04T21:58:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> at the end of the day literally who cares lmao
2021-03-04T21:59:10 #kisslinux <ctb0> not only that, he was being obnoxious about wayland vs xorg. i'm pretty sure that exact same obnoxious argument happened in this channel last night
2021-03-04T21:59:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> he's just a dude on the interwebs
2021-03-04T21:59:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> leftists and white-haters
2021-03-04T21:59:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> they have the right to say whatever the hell they want, you have the right to hang around whoever you want
2021-03-04T21:59:52 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> if he's an arrogant jerk, he's an arrogant jerk.  y'all don't have to make excuses for him you know
2021-03-04T22:00:02 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ^^
2021-03-04T22:00:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm not making excuses for anyone
2021-03-04T22:00:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> just saying that people need to get the fuck over themselves
2021-03-04T22:00:19 #kisslinux <kiedtl> It wasn't just the wayland vs xorg. It's just ddevault in general.
2021-03-04T22:00:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> we're questioning the notion of taring and feathering someone due to an unsourced claim some idiot makes on twitter
2021-03-04T22:00:39 #kisslinux <kiedtl> anytime he gets into a thread you can expect him to insult people, yell at them for disagreeing, etc.
2021-03-04T22:00:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> people constantly shit on and get shit on by other people. it sucks, but ultimately there's not a lot you can do about it beyond taking a deep breath and moving on
2021-03-04T22:01:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> if there's anything I've learned in my fifteen or so years of being very online, it's that
2021-03-04T22:01:21 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> that's an excuse for his behavior, you know
2021-03-04T22:01:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> "white haters" lmfao nah bruv miss me with this whole concept
2021-03-04T22:01:31 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> "oh well it's just the way he is, suck it up buttercup"
2021-03-04T22:01:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> then i'm making an excuse for his behaviors
2021-03-04T22:01:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you want to stew in butthurt then that's not my problem
2021-03-04T22:01:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> midfavila: you can plenty of things. like ban them. shit ain't hard
2021-03-04T22:02:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd rather not set precedent by banning people for muh feels
2021-03-04T22:02:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> but that's me
2021-03-04T22:02:16 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> +1
2021-03-04T22:03:19 #kisslinux <kiedtl> sh4rm4^bnc, the "idiot on twitter" was a personal friend of the user1 in the IRC snippet. Just because there isn't a screencap for me to put here doesn't mean that's it didn't happen.
2021-03-04T22:03:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it does mean there's no reason for him to put stock in their statement
2021-03-04T22:04:16 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> innocent until proven guilty is a pretty wise concept
2021-03-04T22:04:16 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I'm talking to user1 right now
2021-03-04T22:04:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay but like
2021-03-04T22:04:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> idc
2021-03-04T22:04:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> because i'm not their friend, or their friend's friend
2021-03-04T22:04:37 #kisslinux <kiedtl> and I think I can give you a snippet of ddevault's message
2021-03-04T22:04:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> so I have zero reason to believe anything they say
2021-03-04T22:04:46 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-03-04T22:04:49 #kisslinux <kiedtl> "they should have complied and given them all their guns; since they didn't it's reasonable to expect them all to get slaughtered"
2021-03-04T22:05:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> screenshots or it didn't happen
2021-03-04T22:05:06 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> user1 aka technomancy
2021-03-04T22:05:11 #kisslinux <ctb0> that doesn't sound like devault. he has a wrong anti US bent
2021-03-04T22:05:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> banning people based on 'muh feels' is 1) legitimate and 2) discretionary. meh meh wah wah get over being banned lmfao
2021-03-04T22:05:23 #kisslinux <ctb0> s/strong/wrong
2021-03-04T22:05:26 #kisslinux <kiedtl> sh4rm4^bnc: nope
2021-03-04T22:05:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah okay barista
2021-03-04T22:05:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> bruh lmfao
2021-03-04T22:05:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> i've sucked dick more dismissive than that
2021-03-04T22:06:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> o.0
2021-03-04T22:06:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm glad you've had that experience.
2021-03-04T22:08:10 #kisslinux <ctb0> also kiedtl the quotes don't add up
2021-03-04T22:08:26 #kisslinux <ctb0> "unarmed relatives deserved to be shot at Wounded Knee because they weren't complying with the military's orders." from the toot they are unarmed
2021-03-04T22:08:36 #kisslinux <ctb0> "they should have complied and given them all their guns; since they didn't it's reasonable to expect them all to get slaughtered" here they are armed
2021-03-04T22:09:05 #kisslinux <kiedtl> You don't seem to understand the nature of the Wounded Knee massacre
2021-03-04T22:09:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean
2021-03-04T22:09:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> assuming ctb0 isn't an american
2021-03-04T22:09:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> correct me if i'm wrong
2021-03-04T22:09:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> they haven't got much reason to care, dude
2021-03-04T22:09:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> the world doesn't revolve around the USA
2021-03-04T22:09:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> or what americans think, say or do
2021-03-04T22:10:05 #kisslinux <kiedtl> >they haven't got much reason to care, dude
2021-03-04T22:10:11 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I'm not sure i parsed that correctly
2021-03-04T22:10:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's not a complicated statement
2021-03-04T22:10:23 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ctb0 doesn't have reason to care?
2021-03-04T22:10:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> assuming they're not american or connected in any other way to the event, yeah. it's not reasonable to expect the average person to freak out over american history
2021-03-04T22:11:01 #kisslinux <kiedtl> You are correct
2021-03-04T22:11:23 #kisslinux <kiedtl> They should not make uninformed statements though
2021-03-04T22:11:39 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> he simply quoted your quotes
2021-03-04T22:11:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> says the one slandering devault without screenshots or evidence
2021-03-04T22:11:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> like don't get me wrong devault is a cunt
2021-03-04T22:12:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> but slandering someone is just as bad if not worse than anything he's done
2021-03-04T22:12:30 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I mean, talking to a friend and hearing about harasement they've gotten from ddevault is enough evidence for me
2021-03-04T22:12:38 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I can understand why it's not enough for others though
2021-03-04T22:12:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah.
2021-03-04T22:13:01 #kisslinux <ctb0> right, there is plenty of evidence of devault being an asshole online. i don't know why you went with a he said she said example
2021-03-04T22:13:50 #kisslinux <ctb0> also my nationality doesn't preclude me from caring about people from other countries :)
2021-03-04T22:14:32 #kisslinux <kiedtl> well, to explain how the quotes don't add up
2021-03-04T22:14:48 #kisslinux <kiedtl> there was this group of warriors who refused to give up their weapons
2021-03-04T22:15:05 #kisslinux <kiedtl> and as a result lots of unarmed civilians as well as soldiers were shot
2021-03-04T22:15:19 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> fucking brits
2021-03-04T22:15:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> so correct me if I'm not making any sense, but it doesn't seem to not add up to me
2021-03-04T22:16:00 #kisslinux <kiedtl> sh4rm4^bnc: ? It was american troops doing the massacrering, not british troops
2021-03-04T22:16:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> oh, ok, nevermind then
2021-03-04T22:16:15 #kisslinux <ctb0> who beget the american though!
2021-03-04T22:16:19 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh
2021-03-04T22:16:22 #kisslinux <kiedtl> You're right!
2021-03-04T22:16:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's those goddamned romans
2021-03-04T22:16:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Bad british!!
2021-03-04T22:16:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> motherfuckers
2021-03-04T22:16:32 #kisslinux <kiedtl> what? no
2021-03-04T22:16:34 #kisslinux <kiedtl> the germans
2021-03-04T22:16:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> the mesopotamians
2021-03-04T22:16:42 #kisslinux <kiedtl> those anglo-saxons
2021-03-04T22:16:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> goddamn river-people
2021-03-04T22:16:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> at it again
2021-03-04T22:16:55 #kisslinux <ctb0> i really place the blame on the Australopithecus
2021-03-04T22:16:57 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I mean, I'm sure they all come down to this one ape
2021-03-04T22:17:00 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol yes
2021-03-04T22:17:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> fucking homo habilis and his toolmaking
2021-03-04T22:17:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> if we just lived in trees and ate berries we'd all be so much happier
2021-03-04T22:17:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dilyn would probably be being engaged in tearing off your head, instead of working on kiss, lol
2021-03-04T22:17:56 #kisslinux * sh4rm4^bnc plays into of 2001 space odissey
2021-03-04T22:18:00 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> *intro
2021-03-04T22:18:13 #kisslinux <ctb0> why do you think dylan left kiss? he has returned to nature
2021-03-04T22:18:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> anyway let's all just agree that devault is a cunt and that making accusations without evidence is bad
2021-03-04T22:18:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> and that ice cream is tasty
2021-03-04T22:18:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> but not chocolate
2021-03-04T22:18:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> chocolate ice cream is gross
2021-03-04T22:18:40 #kisslinux <kiedtl> fucking bastard
2021-03-04T22:18:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> come at me
2021-03-04T22:18:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> sure, just keep the bayonet away
2021-03-04T22:19:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's too late
2021-03-04T22:19:12 #kisslinux <kiedtl> waa
2021-03-04T22:19:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> the ghost of an ancient soldier has possessed my arm
2021-03-04T22:19:17 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dilyn: HALP
2021-03-04T22:19:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> we're going metal gear up in this bitch
2021-03-04T22:19:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> that works
2021-03-04T22:19:39 #kisslinux * kiedtl peeks in
2021-03-04T22:22:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> ゴゴゴゴゴ
2021-03-04T22:23:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> man I really need to get around to installing a unicode font for kanji and katakana
2021-03-04T22:23:27 #kisslinux <kiedtl> what's your current font?
2021-03-04T22:23:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> uh
2021-03-04T22:23:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> whatever's built into xorg
2021-03-04T22:23:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> lmao
2021-03-04T22:23:39 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-03-04T22:23:45 #kisslinux <kiedtl> liberation sans I assume?
2021-03-04T22:23:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> no
2021-03-04T22:23:52 #kisslinux <kiedtl> xorg doesn't have a builtin font afaik
2021-03-04T22:23:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> like I don't have a font package installed
2021-03-04T22:23:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah it does
2021-03-04T22:23:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's a generic bitmap
2021-03-04T22:24:00 #kisslinux <kiedtl> o_o
2021-03-04T22:24:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> 8x13 or something I think
2021-03-04T22:24:06 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh, must be misc-fixed
2021-03-04T22:24:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah
2021-03-04T22:24:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> probably
2021-03-04T22:24:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> i need to find a good high-dpi bitmap font
2021-03-04T22:24:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd use cozzette's bitmap but the kerning on it is wack
2021-03-04T22:25:04 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> https://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/terminus-font/
2021-03-04T22:25:16 #kisslinux <kiedtl> My monitor is fairly lo-dpi, which means that vectorized fonts look trash on it. So I'm stuck with terrible eyesite *and* bitmapped fonts
2021-03-04T22:25:22 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-03-04T22:25:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> >tfw 404
2021-03-04T22:25:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> hurr, google terminus font
2021-03-04T22:25:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I mean for me I just want to settle on one, maybe two fonts for all my systems
2021-03-04T22:25:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> my display is like
2021-03-04T22:25:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> idk probably moderate dpi?
2021-03-04T22:26:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I sit a fair distance away so I normally set it to 13-point
2021-03-04T22:26:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> terminus is Thomas Dickey Approved (TM)
2021-03-04T22:26:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> literally who
2021-03-04T22:26:39 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> ncurses/xterm author
2021-03-04T22:26:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh
2021-03-04T22:26:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> you'd think I know his name considering I daily xterm
2021-03-04T22:26:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> guess not
2021-03-04T22:26:56 #kisslinux * midfavila facedesks
2021-03-04T22:27:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> i wonder why nobody's stripped xterm down
2021-03-04T22:27:22 #kisslinux <kiedtl> nitpick: he didn't author xterm (and I'm not sure about ncurses either), he just maintains them
2021-03-04T22:27:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's already lighter-weight than urxvt but there's so much crap that's totally useless on modern systems
2021-03-04T22:27:46 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> ah yeah, though he authored probably > 50% of code still in there
2021-03-04T22:27:53 #kisslinux <kiedtl> yup thats there
2021-03-04T22:28:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> like here's a question
2021-03-04T22:28:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> what the hell is the "Tek Window"
2021-03-04T22:28:12 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila: xterm is incredibly old (it predates xorg) so I assume theres tons of historical baggage
2021-03-04T22:28:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh trust me I know how old xterm is
2021-03-04T22:28:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> older than thou
2021-03-04T22:28:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> there's metric fuck-tons of baggage
2021-03-04T22:28:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> xorg is way older than me lmao
2021-03-04T22:28:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> xterm, definitely
2021-03-04T22:29:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> terminus is in the repo! good default
2021-03-04T22:29:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> also I will not help people with incorporeal spirits posessing their limbs. that is out of scope.
2021-03-04T22:29:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> fuck
2021-03-04T22:29:41 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you mean nasal daemons, dilyn ?
2021-03-04T22:29:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm going back to debian
2021-03-04T22:30:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> yes sh4
2021-03-04T22:30:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> boogie men
2021-03-04T22:30:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> actually wait
2021-03-04T22:30:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> smgl literally has a command to exorcise things
2021-03-04T22:30:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> just gonna use that now
2021-03-04T22:31:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> maybe *I* should write a new xaw terminal. hrmmmmmm
2021-03-04T22:31:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> for purists there's uuterm, authored by musl's author
2021-03-04T22:31:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> i think i've heard of uuterm
2021-03-04T22:31:51 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> doesn't even support copy/paste, but hey, it's super-fast and there's tmux
2021-03-04T22:32:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> copy paste is for nerds
2021-03-04T22:32:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> cutbuffers are where it's at
2021-03-04T22:32:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> i wish I could disable copy-paste but I need it for netsurf
2021-03-04T22:33:10 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i'm coding C since 12 years but when i read uuterm source i'm like wtf is that
2021-03-04T22:33:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> full of bit tricks
2021-03-04T22:33:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> reading C source code makes my head hurt xwx
2021-03-04T22:33:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> there's just so much stuff going on and I'm not used to tracking it all
2021-03-04T22:34:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> just gotta practice more I guess
2021-03-04T22:39:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> wew okay
2021-03-04T22:40:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> there was another power surge
2021-03-04T22:40:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> gotta wait for my machine to boot back up. dinner in the meantime
2021-03-04T22:40:20 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Oh, so you reconnect everytime that happens? that explains it
2021-03-04T22:40:24 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh
2021-03-04T22:40:30 #kisslinux <kiedtl> You're on your phone?
2021-03-04T22:40:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> laptop
2021-03-04T22:40:37 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Ah
2021-03-04T22:40:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i need to change the nicks associated with my account to reflect that
2021-03-04T22:41:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but yeah my apartment is dogshit and my UPS' battery is dead
2021-03-04T22:41:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so it's basically just a really bulky surge protector
2021-03-04T22:42:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it also doesn't help that my client sometimes likes to crash
2021-03-04T22:42:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> :|
2021-03-04T22:43:32 #kisslinux <kiedtl> what's purple irc? i've never heard of it
2021-03-04T22:43:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> libpurple's IRC plugin
2021-03-04T22:44:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> exposed via pidgin and/or finch
2021-03-04T22:44:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> huh
2021-03-04T22:44:25 #kisslinux <midfavila1> pidgin is usually stable
2021-03-04T22:44:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> dunno why it's crashing on my musl machine. other than that it's probably not put together with musl in mind
2021-03-04T22:45:00 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but yeah having all my different IM accounts available through one (relatively) efficient program is very nice
2021-03-04T22:45:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> plus it's gtk2
2021-03-04T22:45:16 #kisslinux <kiedtl> does it have matrix?
2021-03-04T22:45:20 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah
2021-03-04T22:45:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but the matrix plugin is beta rn
2021-03-04T22:45:41 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Ah
2021-03-04T22:45:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i think they're still hashing out rooms
2021-03-04T22:45:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but PMs and stuff are fine
2021-03-04T22:46:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> basically if it's a semi-common protocol it's likely to have a libpurple module
2021-03-04T22:46:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> discord, steam, xmpp, telegram, normie social media, etc
2021-03-04T22:46:47 #kisslinux <kiedtl> huh cool
2021-03-04T22:46:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Yeah.
2021-03-04T22:48:31 #kisslinux <midfavila1> hmm. what monitors should I set up... thinking system load, memory, networking, and battery
2021-03-04T22:57:37 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Anyone happen to have a java build file for glibc kiss linux? Currently using binaries but would prefer to build from source. Just wondering I will do it myself but don't want to do extra work if someone already has one in their repo.
2021-03-04T22:58:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> haha, java
2021-03-04T22:58:55 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you gotta build gcc < 7, then build gnu classpath, then openjdk 1.x, etc
2021-03-04T22:59:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> god, java is a nightmare
2021-03-04T22:59:41 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i think the only person that ever accomplished that is fabled of alpinelinux
2021-03-04T22:59:58 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Gotcha lol
2021-03-04T23:00:11 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I'll stick with the binaries then lol
2021-03-04T23:00:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> even better: no java programs <3
2021-03-04T23:00:50 #kisslinux <MueVoid> No still java programs :(  just using the java bin instead of compiling from source
2021-03-04T23:01:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> gotcha, i actually use an ubuntu 20.04 rootfs so i can use the fscking java-based android toolchain :/
2021-03-04T23:02:39 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I'm on GKISS cause I personally don't like chroots
2021-03-04T23:03:08 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I wish android wasn't so heavily reliant on java :(
2021-03-04T23:03:45 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah, i had a vision to create a javaless toolchain based on a smali-assembler written in C
2021-03-04T23:04:08 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I think someone has done that but unfortunately you lose out a lot on what you can do then
2021-03-04T23:04:31 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> where the smali assembler would be used to build only the most minimal dalvik bytecode possible to run native code
2021-03-04T23:05:07 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Yeah
2021-03-04T23:05:18 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i.e. somehow shoehorn a unique starter class name into it
2021-03-04T23:06:12 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's kinda weird how google pushes the tech of a supposed competitor
2021-03-04T23:06:40 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> but when you look behind the curtains they're both from silicon valley and probably same shareholders...
2021-03-04T23:07:26 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and they're like "lol, let's shove a fine of $1 billion from one company to the other and people will think there's a difference"
2021-03-04T23:07:35 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Yeah lmao
2021-03-04T23:12:59 #kisslinux <CoreFour> Has there been any update on Dylan?
2021-03-04T23:13:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> no
2021-03-04T23:13:05 #kisslinux <necromansy> nah
2021-03-04T23:13:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> CoreFour: We've kinda come to terms with his absence
2021-03-04T23:13:29 #kisslinux <necromansy> we're basically just working on maintaining under the premise he's perma-gone
2021-03-04T23:13:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ^
2021-03-04T23:13:41 #kisslinux <CoreFour> I see
2021-03-04T23:13:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> dilyn is interim bdfl
2021-03-04T23:14:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> interim?? wow rude
2021-03-04T23:14:05 #kisslinux <necromansy> lmao
2021-03-04T23:14:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> deal with it nerd
2021-03-04T23:14:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i have a bayonet and you don't
2021-03-04T23:14:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> can't even fight me
2021-03-04T23:14:26 #kisslinux <CoreFour> Void Linux was able to go through their founder being gone, should be even easier for KISS I'd assume
2021-03-04T23:14:32 #kisslinux <CoreFour> I hope Dylan is okay though
2021-03-04T23:14:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah well he's either dead or embracing his inner anprim
2021-03-04T23:14:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> hopefully it's just the latter
2021-03-04T23:14:52 #kisslinux <acheam> we've been doing fine :)
2021-03-04T23:15:00 #kisslinux <acheam> only hiccups have been the domain and GH org
2021-03-04T23:15:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> which will one day soon be resolved!
2021-03-04T23:15:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> do you guys know if xpm images are scalable?
2021-03-04T23:16:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> we could switch to a different domain. k1sslinux.org
2021-03-04T23:16:05 #kisslinux <acheam> xpm?
2021-03-04T23:16:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> x pixmap
2021-03-04T23:16:16 #kisslinux <acheam> we already have k1ss.net
2021-03-04T23:16:39 #kisslinux <acheam> assuming that mcpcpc would be willing to give it to you
2021-03-04T23:16:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah but .net is gross
2021-03-04T23:16:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> .net is great fuck you
2021-03-04T23:16:52 #kisslinux <acheam> .net is love
2021-03-04T23:16:56 #kisslinux <acheam> not the framework
2021-03-04T23:16:59 #kisslinux <acheam> the tld
2021-03-04T23:17:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the framework sucks yeah
2021-03-04T23:17:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> "just use mono"
2021-03-04T23:17:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> that's also to what i'm referring lol
2021-03-04T23:17:24 #kisslinux <MueVoid> .org is superior
2021-03-04T23:17:28 #kisslinux <necromansy> ^
2021-03-04T23:17:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> mcpcpc can keep k1ss.net if he'd like - it's a fine alternative for a more fun and featured website. i'd be cool with it
2021-03-04T23:17:35 #kisslinux <kiedtl> kisslinux.org -- why not?
2021-03-04T23:17:40 #kisslinux <MueVoid> ^
2021-03-04T23:17:41 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I like it
2021-03-04T23:17:48 #kisslinux <kiedtl> without the awkward 1
2021-03-04T23:17:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> well kisslinux.org is taken, so it would be k1sslinux.org lel
2021-03-04T23:17:54 #kisslinux <kiedtl> what
2021-03-04T23:17:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh gross
2021-03-04T23:18:00 #kisslinux <acheam> can we do getkiss again?
2021-03-04T23:18:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> inorite
2021-03-04T23:18:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> the Goat Piss distro
2021-03-04T23:18:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> getkiss.org is also i think taken :(
2021-03-04T23:18:16 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh :(
2021-03-04T23:18:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> it was the first one i wanted lmao
2021-03-04T23:18:19 #kisslinux <kiedtl> getkisslinux.org
2021-03-04T23:18:23 #kisslinux <acheam> lol
2021-03-04T23:18:29 #kisslinux <MueVoid> getkiss.org seems to be fine
2021-03-04T23:18:33 #kisslinux <acheam> what about a .sh?
2021-03-04T23:18:35 #kisslinux <acheam> because of posix shell
2021-03-04T23:18:44 #kisslinux <kiedtl> What we need is a compromise
2021-03-04T23:18:46 #kisslinux <kiedtl> getk1ss.net
2021-03-04T23:18:53 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> dilyn: whatever you would like. i dont mind transferring it.
2021-03-04T23:18:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> inb4 getkiss.sh(it)
2021-03-04T23:19:00 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-03-04T23:19:02 #kisslinux <acheam> i like kisslinux.sh
2021-03-04T23:19:05 #kisslinux <necromansy> getkisssh.it
2021-03-04T23:19:26 #kisslinux <midfavila1> goat piss shit linux
2021-03-04T23:19:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> perfect.
2021-03-04T23:19:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> perfect 5/7
2021-03-04T23:19:50 #kisslinux <kiedtl> what makes a 7/7?
2021-03-04T23:20:00 #kisslinux <necromansy> 5/7 is perfect score
2021-03-04T23:20:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if we had dylan :(
2021-03-04T23:20:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> f
2021-03-04T23:20:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that would be a 7/7 in my heart
2021-03-04T23:20:16 #kisslinux <kiedtl> :V
2021-03-04T23:23:04 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Hmmm luajit fails to compile with this error:
2021-03-04T23:23:05 #kisslinux <MueVoid> ln: /home/muevoid/.cache/kiss/proc/5342/pkg/luajit/usr/lib/libluajit-5.1.so: File exists
2021-03-04T23:24:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> does libluajit-5.1.so.2.0.5 exist?
2021-03-04T23:24:45 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Just figured it out I'm slow it's due to me using glibc
2021-03-04T23:25:08 #kisslinux <MueVoid> On musl ldconfig doesn't create the symlinks so a fix was put in to create them for musl. But that isn't needed since i'm on glibc
2021-03-04T23:25:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> ah, another gkiss user :v
2021-03-04T23:25:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> we spread
2021-03-04T23:26:05 #kisslinux <kiedtl> gkiss kinda misses the whole point of kiss
2021-03-04T23:26:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> not really
2021-03-04T23:26:16 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Yeah, I miss musl but i'll take more bloat in a libc over having to use a chroot with a whole nother system
2021-03-04T23:26:20 #kisslinux <MueVoid> ^
2021-03-04T23:26:31 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I feel like the point of kiss is due whatever the hell you want
2021-03-04T23:26:35 #kisslinux <MueVoid> It gives a base to build off of
2021-03-04T23:26:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you can have a minimal glibc system. it's just not ideal
2021-03-04T23:26:45 #kisslinux <kiedtl> also, testuser_[m]: do you think renaming gkiss would be a good idea? there's an iOS/Android app by that name
2021-03-04T23:26:48 #kisslinux <MueVoid> That too
2021-03-04T23:26:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I mean yeah, use whatever works for you :)
2021-03-04T23:29:07 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I used to use kirc for my irc client. I'm looking into other ones any ideas?
2021-03-04T23:29:20 #kisslinux <necromansy> nah im still using kirc tbh
2021-03-04T23:29:21 #kisslinux <necromansy> lmao
2021-03-04T23:29:37 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Yeah kirc is really nice
2021-03-04T23:29:45 #kisslinux <acheam> weechat is nice
2021-03-04T23:29:48 #kisslinux <acheam> bloated but nice
2021-03-04T23:30:17 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> https://github.com/mcpcpc/irc2
2021-03-04T23:30:25 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> :)
2021-03-04T23:30:33 #kisslinux <kiedtl> MueVoid: catgirl is pretty good, too
2021-03-04T23:30:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> pidgin is comfy
2021-03-04T23:30:40 #kisslinux <kiedtl> https://git.causal.agency/catgirl
2021-03-04T23:30:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> also yes catgirls are good
2021-03-04T23:31:18 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Thanks for all the suggestions bookmarking them
2021-03-04T23:31:18 #kisslinux <kiedtl> My only issue with it is that it's the "If you want multiserver then go fuck yourself" kind of irc client
2021-03-04T23:31:30 #kisslinux <MueVoid> I've never tried pidgin
2021-03-04T23:31:34 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Isn't that a gui one?
2021-03-04T23:31:38 #kisslinux <kiedtl> catgirl? nope
2021-03-04T23:31:42 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ncurses
2021-03-04T23:31:47 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Pidgin I was talking about
2021-03-04T23:31:52 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh
2021-03-04T23:31:56 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Lol no worries
2021-03-04T23:32:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> who doesn't already have curses installed
2021-03-04T23:32:37 #kisslinux <necromansy> id hope most people have it
2021-03-04T23:32:50 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Yeah lol
2021-03-04T23:33:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> mfw 'tine doesn't require it ergo i don't have it'
2021-03-04T23:33:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> :v
2021-03-04T23:34:20 #kisslinux <necromansy> it does tho, mid btfo'd :P
2021-03-04T23:35:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-03-04T23:38:21 #kisslinux <necromansy> y'know what doesn't
2021-03-04T23:38:21 #kisslinux <necromansy> ed
2021-03-04T23:39:21 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> +sam
2021-03-04T23:39:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> tine needs ncurses for now
2021-03-04T23:39:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> as does mtm
2021-03-04T23:39:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> also alsamixer does, I think
2021-03-04T23:39:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> tine == deadpixi/tine?
2021-03-04T23:39:57 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeah alsamixer does
2021-03-04T23:39:58 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeah
2021-03-04T23:40:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah kiedtl
2021-03-04T23:40:09 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Cool, you use that as your daily driver?
2021-03-04T23:40:10 #kisslinux <necromansy> i like curses interfaces
2021-03-04T23:40:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah I do
2021-03-04T23:40:19 #kisslinux <kiedtl> huh
2021-03-04T23:40:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's gotten to the point where I ESC-(tine command) out of habit when using vi or emacs or something
2021-03-04T23:40:47 #kisslinux <MueVoid> Is there a way to make it so kiss ignores error messages from a package?
2021-03-04T23:40:53 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I just can't give up my hjkl movement :<
2021-03-04T23:40:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> don't think so
2021-03-04T23:40:58 #kisslinux <necromansy> ill consider jumping to tine if i want a non-line editor again
2021-03-04T23:41:00 #kisslinux <MueVoid> rip
2021-03-04T23:41:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and I mean you can probably rebind movement
2021-03-04T23:41:16 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I haven't looked into doing that
2021-03-04T23:41:19 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if that fails the source code is like maybe 1k lines
2021-03-04T23:41:22 #kisslinux <kiedtl> but I'd end up rebinding a lot of stuff
2021-03-04T23:41:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> simple enough that even I could probably edit it
2021-03-04T23:41:30 #kisslinux <kiedtl> like, zf, zb, zz
2021-03-04T23:41:43 #kisslinux <kiedtl> so I may as well use vim lol
2021-03-04T23:41:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well, that's one of the things about tine that I'm not hugely a fan of
2021-03-04T23:41:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you can't bind arbitrary commands to arbitrary buttons
2021-03-04T23:42:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you can rebind any "immediate mode" command to any other immediate mode button combo, and bind any command mode command to any F key between one and ten inclusive, but that's it
2021-03-04T23:42:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> outside of that you have to learn how to actually use it
2021-03-04T23:42:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> which in a way is a good thing
2021-03-04T23:43:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> because it's simple enough that you'd end up spending more time rebinding shit than you would just learning how to use it
2021-03-04T23:43:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> oh also it's extremely smol
2021-03-04T23:43:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> like >80kb
2021-03-04T23:43:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> er
2021-03-04T23:43:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >80kb
2021-03-04T23:43:55 #kisslinux <midfavila1> <
2021-03-04T23:43:56 #kisslinux <midfavila1> fuck
2021-03-04T23:43:57 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Yeah, that's another cool big
2021-03-04T23:43:58 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-03-04T23:44:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> my laptop keyboard has shrunken gt and lt keys
2021-03-04T23:44:12 #kisslinux <necromansy> you had it right the first time
2021-03-04T23:44:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> oh
2021-03-04T23:44:20 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well there you go
2021-03-04T23:44:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> maybe I just need sleep
2021-03-04T23:44:31 #kisslinux <midfavila1> anyway point is
2021-03-04T23:44:32 #kisslinux <necromansy> the open end goes to the large val :>
2021-03-04T23:44:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah I know
2021-03-04T23:44:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> point is
2021-03-04T23:44:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's v small
2021-03-04T23:44:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> smaller than ed
2021-03-04T23:44:47 #kisslinux <necromansy> ye
2021-03-04T23:44:59 #kisslinux <necromansy> well depends on the version of ed i imagine
2021-03-04T23:45:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> suckless ed is around 130kb
2021-03-04T23:45:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> 145.7kb
2021-03-04T23:45:14 #kisslinux <necromansy> oh nvm i thought it'd be smaller
2021-03-04T23:45:18 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeesh
2021-03-04T23:45:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah nah ed is a lot more complex than you might think
2021-03-04T23:45:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> tine is much simpler
2021-03-04T23:45:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you have navigation commands, file manipulation, some basic word replacement, and... that's it
2021-03-04T23:46:03 #kisslinux <necromansy> i wonder if its the regex implementation that adds weight
2021-03-04T23:46:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but you can pipe the contents of the current file to external commands for processing
2021-03-04T23:46:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> oh totally
2021-03-04T23:46:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but with tine you can avoid that
2021-03-04T23:46:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> because I can just pipe a section of the file to, say, awk
2021-03-04T23:46:25 #kisslinux <necromansy> i like the regex
2021-03-04T23:46:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and then paste it in
2021-03-04T23:46:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> or shit, I can pipe it to sed, whatever floats your boat
2021-03-04T23:46:50 #kisslinux <midfavila1> point is ya got options
2021-03-04T23:47:06 #kisslinux <necromansy> ive got it installed
2021-03-04T23:47:10 #kisslinux <necromansy> ill poke around
2021-03-04T23:47:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> my biggest complaint is that the immediate mode navigation commands don't function under a multiplexer
2021-03-04T23:47:17 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i don't know why that is
2021-03-04T23:47:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but yeah tine is v comfy
2021-03-04T23:47:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i want to implement it as a xaw program some time in the future
2021-03-04T23:47:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and maybe extend it a bit
2021-03-04T23:54:11 #kisslinux <acheam> anybody have a reccomended cloud provider? Looking to move from DO to something with a bit more value. Needs to have a ~5$/mo tier
2021-03-04T23:54:41 #kisslinux <acheam> s/DO/Digital Ocean/
2021-03-04T23:54:43 #kisslinux <kissbot> <acheam> anybody have a reccomended cloud provider? Looking to move from Digital Ocean to something with a bit more value. Needs to have a ~5$/mo tier
2021-03-04T23:58:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> my recommended cloud provider is yourself
2021-03-04T23:58:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> otherwise i've heard linode is okay
2021-03-04T23:58:49 #kisslinux <acheam> thats where devault used to work lol
2021-03-04T23:59:06 #kisslinux <acheam> linode, vulture and DO are practically the same from what I can tell...
2021-03-04T23:59:17 #kisslinux <acheam> same pricing tier, performance, etc
2021-03-04T23:59:46 #kisslinux * midfavila1 shrugs
2021-03-04T23:59:48 #kisslinux <acheam> I have a killer server at home, its not that I can't do it at home, I just like to use a VPS for critical stuff