2020-01-15T00:00:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> but the slide literally says they could work with it?
2020-01-15T00:00:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-01-15T00:00:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It would've been slow probably.
2020-01-15T00:00:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Else they would've
2020-01-15T00:00:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> EGLStreams would have cost money to design and implement.
2020-01-15T00:00:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Makes no sense if GBM was fine and dandy
2020-01-15T00:01:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh well
2020-01-15T00:01:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> any other problems to list?
2020-01-15T00:02:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The problem is really that you and me now have to deal with adding support NVidia
2020-01-15T00:02:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And anyone else who wants to write a Wayland Compositor
2020-01-15T00:03:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> With Xorg, it's in there and we don't have to worry about it.
2020-01-15T00:03:14 #kisslinux <E5ten> or you could just write off a massive group of users and talk shit about them because you're a real cool guy who definitely isn't ddevault ;)
2020-01-15T00:03:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Exactly
2020-01-15T00:03:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> clearly that's the option to go with
2020-01-15T00:03:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No one wins this way
2020-01-15T00:03:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And we have GNOME/KDE with the budget adding support for EGLSTREAMS
2020-01-15T00:04:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So now we have NVIDIA compatible environments and non-nvidia ones
2020-01-15T00:04:33 #kisslinux <sirtomato> dylanaraps: what's that color program you use that prints out your pallete
2020-01-15T00:04:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We have GNOME protocols and we have KDE protocols
2020-01-15T00:04:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> sirtomato: 2 secs
2020-01-15T00:05:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wayland will create lock-in into specific desktop environments.
2020-01-15T00:05:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> like honestly what even are the arguments in favour of wayland lmao
2020-01-15T00:05:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "Xorg is old"
2020-01-15T00:05:36 #kisslinux <sirtomato> its the f u t u r e
2020-01-15T00:05:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> fun
2020-01-15T00:05:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "Wayland is just a protocol" (I hate this one)
2020-01-15T00:05:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh god whenever I read that I want to die
2020-01-15T00:06:13 #kisslinux <sirtomato> but... but... xorg is a protocol :P
2020-01-15T00:06:15 #kisslinux <sirtomato> i think
2020-01-15T00:06:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yes
2020-01-15T00:06:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> X11 is
2020-01-15T00:06:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> or am I wrong?
2020-01-15T00:06:28 #kisslinux <E5ten> I think it is
2020-01-15T00:06:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-15T00:06:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> so is their objection that like there exists only one implementation of the protocol (at least on linux) or something and realistically it'll stay that way?
2020-01-15T00:07:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> do implementations of the wayland protocol exist outside of the reference lib?
2020-01-15T00:07:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The wayland protocol is too narrow and specifies nothing useful other than pushing shit to the screen
2020-01-15T00:08:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So GNOME have their own protocols for screenshots etc which use dbus
2020-01-15T00:08:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KDE have their own
2020-01-15T00:08:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sway have theirs
2020-01-15T00:08:22 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: the udevadm --exit section of rc.boot kills udev when runsvdir was started beforehand via /etc/rc.d . runsvdir then restarts udev to the best i can tell.
2020-01-15T00:08:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: I'm not sure if this bothers you or not, just FYI
2020-01-15T00:08:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)#Differences_between_Wayland_and_X I literally don't see a single advantage listed here?
2020-01-15T00:08:49 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> hello
2020-01-15T00:08:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: udev is killed post-boot and can be started as a real daemon using the service manager
2020-01-15T00:08:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> every single wayland part of that sounds worse than the xorg parts
2020-01-15T00:09:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It is
2020-01-15T00:09:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lel
2020-01-15T00:09:13 #kisslinux <sirtomato> dylanaraps: colors? (sorry)
2020-01-15T00:09:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sorry
2020-01-15T00:09:25 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> what'd i miss?
2020-01-15T00:09:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: I know that. But the udevadm --exit section of rc.boot kills udev when runsvdir was started beforehand via /etc/rc.d
2020-01-15T00:09:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2020-01-15T00:09:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I see
2020-01-15T00:09:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll fix it.
2020-01-15T00:09:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> like there's the security bit but it follows that with saying that xorg extensions have made that situation a bit better on X, so wouldn't it make much more sense to sink time into improving xorg security?
2020-01-15T00:09:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> sirtomato: https://termbin.com/8pau
2020-01-15T00:10:07 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps:  probably just move /etc/rc.d section to EOF
2020-01-15T00:10:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-15T00:10:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Security is pointless if you can't actually use your system.
2020-01-15T00:10:26 #kisslinux <sirtomato> thanks
2020-01-15T00:10:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No more global hotkeys daemons etc.
2020-01-15T00:10:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You don't have a choice either.
2020-01-15T00:10:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It'd be different if wayland had some kind of permissions model.
2020-01-15T00:11:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But no, no more hotkey daemon for you because security
2020-01-15T00:11:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reminder: Sway without logind has to be run as suid
2020-01-15T00:12:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> not even a clipboard for you sir
2020-01-15T00:12:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Your clipboard manager better be compatible with your Wayland compositor of choice or :(
2020-01-15T00:13:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Unless your clipboard manager adds support for the 10 protocols spread across each compositor
2020-01-15T00:13:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> keyboard remapping
2020-01-15T00:13:05 #kisslinux <adamantium> is harder in wayland i think
2020-01-15T00:13:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Everything just gets baked into the compositor
2020-01-15T00:13:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So now each compositor handles keys, screenshots, wallpaper, clipboard, etc
2020-01-15T00:13:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> monitor displays
2020-01-15T00:13:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Remember when window managers just.... managed windows?
2020-01-15T00:14:00 #kisslinux <Aarg> I like my keys to be composited tbh
2020-01-15T00:14:10 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> The more I learn about wayland, the less interested I am in wayland...
2020-01-15T00:14:18 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> yeap
2020-01-15T00:14:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> they say they care so much about security
2020-01-15T00:14:28 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> chat looks better on larger text
2020-01-15T00:14:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> and they are all using dbus, polkit and other crazy shit
2020-01-15T00:14:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The end game is that we have closed desktops like Windows / MacOS
2020-01-15T00:14:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> but safe because wayland
2020-01-15T00:15:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Watch as GNOME programs will only run on GNOME
2020-01-15T00:15:26 #kisslinux <adamantium> it would be an issue if gnome programs were good
2020-01-15T00:15:30 #kisslinux <konimex> something something "security work was still just masturbation"
2020-01-15T00:16:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Read: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/
2020-01-15T00:16:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "I guess you have to decide if you are a GNOME app, an Ubuntu app, or an XFCE app"
2020-01-15T00:17:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "I think one of the most important cases against applets (as they are currently defined in GNOME) is that they are extremely detrimental to the Identity of the product or platform."
2020-01-15T00:17:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "So, one of the many very exciting things about GNOME Shell is that for the first time we may have ability to really shape the user experience and form an identity for the GNOME platform."
2020-01-15T00:18:24 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Gah. This is why I detest GNOME. They have always had that "We know what people want, even if people don't want it" point of view.
2020-01-15T00:18:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "We’ve always argued that if it is anything, GNOME is a UX. There might be a case for letting people tweak things here and there, but I really think that every GNOME install should have the same core look and feel. Otherwise, what is it that we are doing in the first place? "
2020-01-15T00:18:48 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> They can keep it. It's a freaking horrible user experience.
2020-01-15T00:19:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "Facilitating the unrestricted use of extensions and themes by end users seems contrary to the central tenets of the GNOME 3 design."
2020-01-15T00:20:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wayland allows this dream to come true *by design*.
2020-01-15T00:21:10 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Meh. I'll stick to X. If they get too crazy with it I'll just use ncurses for everything... Only thing I use X for most of the time is my web browser. And Factorio.
2020-01-15T00:21:22 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> 'cos you know. The factory must grow.
2020-01-15T00:23:15 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> today's todo: kernel-hopping
2020-01-15T00:24:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> do we need to add users to the audio group? it only says input and video in the wiki
2020-01-15T00:24:28 #kisslinux <adamantium> s/wiki/install guide/g
2020-01-15T00:24:33 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> i guess it's needed for alsa to work
2020-01-15T00:24:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2020-01-15T00:24:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My bad
2020-01-15T00:24:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll fix this too.
2020-01-15T00:24:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> :)
2020-01-15T00:24:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://github.com/swaywm/wlroots/tree/master/protocol
2020-01-15T00:25:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All of the wlr-* files are wlroots specific extensions to the Wayland protocol.
2020-01-15T00:25:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> ncurses for everything is possible if you build mpv with support for video on the tty
2020-01-15T00:25:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> it's actually not a bad setup for vimmers
2020-01-15T00:26:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> i used to do that on gentoo
2020-01-15T00:26:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> streaming hd youtube and stuff with mpv/youtube-dl right on to the tty
2020-01-15T00:26:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> Emacs is more annoying without X because it uses a lot of modifiers
2020-01-15T00:27:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See here for the GNOME extensions to wayland: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/tree/master/data
2020-01-15T00:30:46 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: is it possible for us to use https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/CPU_FLAGS_X86
2020-01-15T00:30:57 #kisslinux <adamantium> e.g. CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2 sse3"
2020-01-15T00:31:04 #kisslinux <adamantium> like gentoo ricers do
2020-01-15T00:31:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How does that work underneath?
2020-01-15T00:31:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> IDK
2020-01-15T00:32:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://github.com/mgorny/cpuid2cpuflags this program you run, it tells you what flags are safe for setting
2020-01-15T00:32:10 #kisslinux <adamantium> i could package it
2020-01-15T00:32:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> but need to know this type of stuff is supported
2020-01-15T00:32:22 #kisslinux <Aarg> most of them get enabled by march=native automatically afaik
2020-01-15T00:32:33 #kisslinux <adamantium> i don't think so
2020-01-15T00:32:40 #kisslinux <adamantium> this is in addition to native
2020-01-15T00:32:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> Well you could be right, but i know people do this in addition to it
2020-01-15T00:33:04 #kisslinux <Aarg> I know, I used gentoo for a long time
2020-01-15T00:34:16 #kisslinux <Aarg> march=native might not enable all the cpu features tho
2020-01-15T00:34:27 #kisslinux <Aarg> that's when that variable comes in handy
2020-01-15T00:36:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KDE seems to not have their protocol extensions anywhere lol
2020-01-15T00:37:04 #kisslinux <Aarg> adamantium: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GCC_optimization#-msse.2C_-msse2.2C_-msse3.2C_-mmmx.2C_-m3dnow
2020-01-15T00:38:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2019/06/24/on-the-road-to-fedora-workstation-31/
2020-01-15T00:38:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Once we are done with this we expect X.org to go into hard maintenance mode fairly quickly. The reality is that X.org is basically maintained by us
2020-01-15T00:38:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > and thus once we stop paying attention to it there is unlikely to be any major new releases coming out and there might even be some bitrot setting in over time.
2020-01-15T00:38:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > We will keep an eye on it as we will want to ensure X.org stays supportable until the end of the RHEL8 lifecycle at a minimum, but let this be a friendly notice for everyone who rely the work we do maintaining the Linux graphics stack, get onto Wayland, that is where the future is.
2020-01-15T00:38:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We have until 2029 (RHEL8)
2020-01-15T00:45:20 #kisslinux <sirtomato> recompiling firefox because firefox-bin crashes too much
2020-01-15T00:45:28 #kisslinux <sirtomato> and last time it took 40 minutes
2020-01-15T00:45:32 #kisslinux <sirtomato> but not -j4
2020-01-15T00:45:37 #kisslinux <sirtomato> so idk
2020-01-15T00:46:25 #kisslinux <konimex> crashes too much but no logs yet
2020-01-15T00:50:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> wayland wouldn't be too bad if they had a better window manager than i3
2020-01-15T00:51:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> can't stand that wm
2020-01-15T00:53:23 #kisslinux <sirtomato> just use gnome smh
2020-01-15T00:53:30 #kisslinux <sirtomato> can't believe you could be that dumb
2020-01-15T00:53:31 #kisslinux <sirtomato> gee
2020-01-15T00:58:39 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> I can't realistically use sway, 'cos Mr. Devault is mean to my nvidia driver... I could use it on KISS I guess since I'm just using nouveau... But I'm opinionated now.
2020-01-15T00:59:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> god there really are few things that piss me off more than that blog post
2020-01-15T01:00:08 #kisslinux <sirtomato> link?
2020-01-15T01:00:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html
2020-01-15T01:03:18 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> He seems like a funny guy for the most part, and he does a LOT of stuff, but man. He has views.
2020-01-15T01:06:44 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> The thing is, he's not wrong. Nvidia are assholes, but I don't think it's fair to attack users for not KNOWING that they were assholes prior to purchase, especially since the only real alternative choice for wayland is GNOME, and apparently as shit as it is, we're all gonna be sucking up to wayland in the future either way...
2020-01-15T01:09:00 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> I still wouldn't know they were assholes if I hadn't tried installing the proprietary drivers on alpine... Not a heap of fun.
2020-01-15T01:14:04 #kisslinux <adamantium> in 2029 we might be using another kernel entirely
2020-01-15T01:14:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> i dont plan to be linuxing at least
2020-01-15T01:14:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> the direction linux is going does not give me reassurance
2020-01-15T01:15:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> One more and then bed: The core Wayland protocol does not define a mechanism for taking screenshots. Here’s another thing it doesn’t define: how to open application windows, like gedit and Firefox.
2020-01-15T01:16:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-debunked.html
2020-01-15T01:16:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Application windows are a protocol extension
2020-01-15T01:17:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK. Bed for me. 3am and my cat watch is over
2020-01-15T01:17:15 #kisslinux <mforney> dylanaraps: "Compositing is forced. I don't like compositors personally" <- Xorg *is* a compositor, even if you don't run an external compositing manager. the compositor is the thing that composes all your application windows to a single buffer, to scan out to your display
2020-01-15T01:18:07 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Night! Get some rest. Life's too short for computing at 3am.
2020-01-15T01:18:37 #kisslinux <E5ten> I thought a compositor puts stuff in an offscreen buffer to apply effects and get rid of tearing because of the second buffer, does X do that?
2020-01-15T01:23:22 #kisslinux <mforney> doesn't Xorg have TearFree options?
2020-01-15T01:24:34 #kisslinux <mforney> and with the X11 present extension, you can the server to present your off-screen pixmap to your window
2020-01-15T01:25:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't think DDX drivers doing stuff with offscreen buffers is quite the same as a compositor
2020-01-15T01:25:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> also note your use of "option"
2020-01-15T01:27:00 #kisslinux <mforney> at the end of the day, *something* has to compose your application buffers into a single frame to scan out to your display
2020-01-15T01:28:11 #kisslinux <mforney> any accelerated graphics (opengl, vulkan) is rendered to off-screen buffers, and Xorg has to combine those into a single image
2020-01-15T01:33:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> I feel like you're not using the correct definition of compositor then
2020-01-15T01:33:38 #kisslinux <E5ten> because I have never heard of X itself described as a compositor, and I have seen distinctions drawn between WMs that have compositors (like kwin) and those that don't (like openbox)
2020-01-15T01:36:45 #kisslinux <mforney> if X isn't a compositor, then why are wayland display servers described as compositors? what's the fundamental difference there?
2020-01-15T01:37:39 #kisslinux <mforney> the distinction between kwin and openbox, is kwin uses the X composite extension to manage window compositing itself (rather than have Xorg do it) so it can apply effects and stuff. openbox just uses Xorg as the compositor
2020-01-15T01:38:44 #kisslinux <mforney> so kwin *is* a compositor and window manager, while openbox is just a window manager
2020-01-15T01:41:57 #kisslinux <mforney> i guess the wikipedia article says "A compositing window manager, or compositor, is a window manager that provides applications with an off-screen buffer for each window. The window manager composites the window buffers into an image representing the screen and writes the result into the display memory.", so if compositor == compositing window manager, than i guess Xorg doesn't qualify, since it
2020-01-15T01:42:00 #kisslinux <mforney> only composes windows, but doesn't have a built-in window manager
2020-01-15T01:49:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> but the word in question here isn't even compose, it's composite, "Compositing is the combining of visual elements from separate sources into single images, often to create the illusion that all those elements are parts of the same scene."
2020-01-15T01:49:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> single windows are one source, so by definition composing a single window isn't compositing
2020-01-15T01:50:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> from what I can gather, a compositor combines all the sources in an offscreen buffer, and displays them, which is entirely optional in X, but mandatory in wayland
2020-01-15T01:51:52 #kisslinux <mforney> but Xorg *does* combine the visual elements of separate sources (off-screen application buffers) into a single images (the final buffer scanned out to your display)
2020-01-15T01:52:41 #kisslinux <E5ten> well I assume that combining is not done in an offscreen buffer
2020-01-15T01:55:16 #kisslinux <mforney> the use of "off-screen" in all definitions i can find is referring to the application buffers, not the result
2020-01-15T01:57:50 #kisslinux <E5ten> "The window manager composites the window buffers into an image representing the screen and writes the result into the display memory."
2020-01-15T01:57:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> from the wikipedia page
2020-01-15T01:59:41 #kisslinux <mforney> how would you describe what Xorg does differently?
2020-01-15T02:00:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> well from what I can tell it seems like the combination of the windows happens directly on screen and not in a separate buffer?
2020-01-15T02:04:51 #kisslinux <mforney> i wouldn't say that quote implies that the result is first stored in separate memory before copying to display memory, but that's just my interpretation
2020-01-15T02:07:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> I mean I guess the implication of a compositing window manager compositing all the windows into a single image together beforehand and then writing that to the display is that a non-compositing window manager doesn't do that, so maybe it's that a non-compositing WM writes windows directly instead of putting them all together first?
2020-01-15T02:10:41 #kisslinux <adamantium> Aarg you were correct about -march=native applying all the extra cpu flag stuff. I verified it on my machine by checking gcc -march=native -E -v - </dev/null 2>&1 | grep cc1 and comparing it with the flags listed with cat /proc/cpuinfo
2020-01-15T02:13:17 #kisslinux <Aarg> ah, good to know
2020-01-15T02:15:07 #kisslinux <Aarg> I should compare mine too at some point
2020-01-15T02:15:17 #kisslinux <Aarg> but bedtime for now, gn everybody
2020-01-15T02:21:07 #kisslinux <mforney> i guess in common usage for X11, "compositor" means "compositing window manager", but i think a better definition is "software that composites individual application buffers together", as opposed to a display server that allows applications to perform drawing operations directly to the screen (like the original X11 model with no direct rendering)
2020-01-15T02:21:33 #kisslinux <mforney> i think a better way to describe the distinction you mentioned is "single-buffering" or "double-buffering"
2020-01-15T02:21:44 #kisslinux <mforney> anyway, thanks for the discussion :)
2020-01-15T02:23:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> compositor doesn't mean compositing window manager in X11 though
2020-01-15T02:23:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> people don't call kwin a compositor in the context of X11, it's a compositing window manager
2020-01-15T02:23:49 #kisslinux <mforney> oh, right, i guess there are compositing managers that can work separately from the window manager
2020-01-15T02:23:55 #kisslinux <E5ten> compton, xcompmgr, etc. are compositors
2020-01-15T02:25:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> wayland's definition of compositor is the weird one for sure, in X11 a compositor is a compositor, and a WM that composites is a compositing WM, it makes no sense that wayland calls their (mandatorily) compositing WMs compositors
2020-01-15T02:27:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> mforney: do you use both kiss and oasis, I'm curious?
2020-01-15T02:28:57 #kisslinux <mforney> i don't think it's weird. the difference is that wayland requires the use of an off-screen buffer for applications (it has no drawing requests), while X11 includes rendering requests like FillRectangle, that don't necessarily imply composition. but with DRI, the application buffers *are* separate from the screen buffer, and that's why i argue that Xorg is also a compositor
2020-01-15T02:30:50 #kisslinux <mforney> adamantium: i don't use kiss, but i think it does a lot of things right. i just like to follow and learn from what others are doing
2020-01-15T02:31:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> cool!
2020-01-15T02:31:27 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> I am rigth now trying to read to see if i shoudl switch
2020-01-15T02:31:34 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> but kinda scared
2020-01-15T02:32:03 #kisslinux <adamantium> mforney: i would love to try oasis but not having a stage3 is just so different I literally just __dont_get_it__ (the install process)
2020-01-15T02:32:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> I might be just unable to learn new things ¯_(ツ)_/¯
2020-01-15T02:32:32 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Oasis?
2020-01-15T02:32:54 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> What is that?
2020-01-15T02:32:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> Oasis is mforney's distro
2020-01-15T02:33:20 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> I am new sorry just got here lol
2020-01-15T02:33:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> hi tooeasy2do
2020-01-15T02:34:16 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> So sorry if this is not the place guys but how is kiss working for you?
2020-01-15T02:34:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> you're fine. working well!
2020-01-15T02:34:46 #kisslinux <adamantium> any specific questions?
2020-01-15T02:35:16 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Yeah, are there any packages or programs that you cannot get runing on it
2020-01-15T02:35:28 #kisslinux <konimex> depends
2020-01-15T02:35:31 #kisslinux <konimex> what do you want to run?
2020-01-15T02:36:11 #kisslinux <adamantium> While having fewer pkgs available, it is by far the easiest distro in existence to create a package or an overlay yourself, making up for it
2020-01-15T02:37:06 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> So there are 3 things i do on this pc i program, i game(steam, league of legends trough lutris) and i use slack and zoom
2020-01-15T02:37:08 #kisslinux <adamantium> Things that require dbus take work in patching the source code to remove that depenedency, though-- and that means we don't use a lot of stuff that some people take for granted.
2020-01-15T02:38:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> we dont have steam
2020-01-15T02:39:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> programming would be no problem, but again i think most of us are vim and Emacs here, you might have to package your own editor if it's not here
2020-01-15T02:39:50 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Oh no, I am vim user till death lol
2020-01-15T02:40:09 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> There is no way fro steam to work then?
2020-01-15T02:40:13 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> CAn i know the reason?
2020-01-15T02:40:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> ifk
2020-01-15T02:40:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> idk
2020-01-15T02:40:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> Let's see...
2020-01-15T02:40:43 #kisslinux <konimex> tooeasy2do: you can run it from a chroot
2020-01-15T02:40:46 #kisslinux <konimex> iirc dylan does it
2020-01-15T02:41:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> 1. it
2020-01-15T02:41:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> 1. it's non free. so it wont be in the official repos here. but again, overlays are super easy
2020-01-15T02:41:17 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Wait you i know waht is chroot but how?
2020-01-15T02:41:34 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> overlays
2020-01-15T02:41:36 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> ?
2020-01-15T02:41:39 #kisslinux <konimex> the reason steam can't run on vanilla KISS primarily is glibc
2020-01-15T02:41:51 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> sorry for not understanding that much :(
2020-01-15T02:42:02 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> SO what are overlays?
2020-01-15T02:42:06 #kisslinux <konimex> we all have to start from somewhere
2020-01-15T02:42:30 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> I know my stuff is just that i am new to stuff out of my arch install lol
2020-01-15T02:42:39 #kisslinux <konimex> tooeasy2do: re, chroot: https://wiki.voidlinux.org/Musl#glibc_chroot
2020-01-15T02:42:44 #kisslinux <konimex> s/re,/re/
2020-01-15T02:42:59 #kisslinux <adamantium> here people are talking about using steam in glibc chroot
2020-01-15T02:43:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://www.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/b4rspn/steam_on_musl/
2020-01-15T02:43:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> looks doable and fun to me
2020-01-15T02:43:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> i'd like to have a little portable gaming ubuntu chroot or something on my kiss box!
2020-01-15T02:44:57 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> They also say that steam is on faltpacks i can guess that flatpacks are not default
2020-01-15T02:45:08 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Is it easy to isntall?
2020-01-15T02:45:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> flatpak just guessing probably requires dbus
2020-01-15T02:45:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> tooeasy2do: it's the same as installing gentoo, but less complicated than gentoo
2020-01-15T02:45:49 #kisslinux <adamantium> you will start with a stage3 and compile a kernel, install a bootloader, configure some text files and reboot into it
2020-01-15T02:46:56 #kisslinux <konimex> tooeasy2do: no one has packaged flatpak successfully yet
2020-01-15T02:49:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> you can use nixpkgs though without issue
2020-01-15T02:49:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> i've been doing it for quite some time now
2020-01-15T02:54:43 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> So no Steam i can live with that, now is lutris an option here?
2020-01-15T02:54:55 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> and also how many languages are on the packages for default
2020-01-15T03:00:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> you can look at the git repos
2020-01-15T03:01:23 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Lustris github right?
2020-01-15T03:01:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://github.com/kisslinux/community/tree/master/community
2020-01-15T03:01:58 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Oh nice
2020-01-15T03:02:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> and official
2020-01-15T03:02:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo
2020-01-15T03:02:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> you can see all of our pkgs
2020-01-15T03:02:46 #kisslinux <adamantium> and look at some build files of things you're interested, you'll see it's only 4 or 5 text files for most of them, very simple to create your own packages, no magic needed
2020-01-15T03:03:10 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> I was going to ask that right now lol, that sounds very nive
2020-01-15T03:03:10 #kisslinux <konimex> lutris isn't packaged yet, but if it's free software it probably can be used with kiss
2020-01-15T03:04:46 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Mju this kinda sounds like is going to be my next distro...
2020-01-15T03:04:56 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> IS it too hard to install compared to arch linux?
2020-01-15T03:24:28 #kisslinux <konimex> see https://getkiss.org/pages/install/
2020-01-15T03:40:44 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> It's easier than arch except for the need to compile your own kernel, which isn't really HARD, just time consuming, and error prone.
2020-01-15T03:41:08 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> At least, that's been my experience.
2020-01-15T03:41:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> ++
2020-01-15T03:43:23 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> In fairness, I had that same experience with gentoo, only it took three days to install as opposed to the few hours to get kiss up and running.
2020-01-15T03:44:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> it varys depending on what your hardware is and how well you know your hardware
2020-01-15T03:44:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> if you don't know jack about your hardware and what drivers it needs you might get lucky or you might be trying for days to get your wifi/audio/video working properly
2020-01-15T03:47:39 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Yeah, Gentoo was my first compile my own kernel experience, and it went pretty ugly. Although it wasn't what took so long, that was compiling @world and firefox mostly...
2020-01-15T06:43:49 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> damn
2020-01-15T06:43:55 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> `lieuxnoir` is registered
2020-01-15T06:59:26 #kisslinux <icyphox> just /msg nickserv identify lieuxnoir <pass>
2020-01-15T06:59:37 #kisslinux <icyphox> that's your nick right
2020-01-15T07:09:51 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> yep
2020-01-15T07:10:06 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> i did not registered for an irc acc
2020-01-15T07:11:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-01-15T07:13:46 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> s/ed//
2020-01-15T07:14:49 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ahh lol
2020-01-15T07:15:04 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> i forgot
2020-01-15T07:15:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> i opened another instance of irc here in my other computer
2020-01-15T07:40:30 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> coo
2020-01-15T07:40:42 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> I  can  have this one then?
2020-01-15T07:45:21 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> lieuxnoir:
2020-01-15T07:47:08 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> lol okay
2020-01-15T07:47:23 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> but why tho
2020-01-15T07:47:47 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> just bored
2020-01-15T08:10:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ello
2020-01-15T08:15:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> For those with Firefox crashes on same sites: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/136#issuecomment-574545319
2020-01-15T08:19:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I may have found a "fix"
2020-01-15T08:20:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK, two possible solutions/workarounds in the link I just sent.
2020-01-15T08:20:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (The cat is still OK btw)
2020-01-15T08:34:41 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylanaraps: Yo. So I built aerc in a chroot, and it works fine.
2020-01-15T08:34:49 #kisslinux <icyphox> I think something's borked on my host system.
2020-01-15T08:35:08 #kisslinux <icyphox> I doing a fully sys upgrade to see if that changes anything.
2020-01-15T08:35:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2020-01-15T08:35:27 #kisslinux <icyphox> So, I'll send a PR for it then?
2020-01-15T08:35:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will help you figure out why in a sec.
2020-01-15T08:35:42 #kisslinux <icyphox> No hurry.
2020-01-15T08:35:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Send it now if you like as I can confirm it works for me.
2020-01-15T08:35:50 #kisslinux <icyphox> Great. I'll do that.
2020-01-15T08:39:52 #kisslinux <dzove855> dylanaraps: i will try the firefox fix tonight. I had the same problem yesterday
2020-01-15T08:50:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Back
2020-01-15T08:52:05 #kisslinux <icyphox> w
2020-01-15T08:52:07 #kisslinux <icyphox> wb*
2020-01-15T08:53:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Does aerc require Python during runtime at all? I read about this yesterday
2020-01-15T08:53:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Your PR looks good otherwise
2020-01-15T08:54:20 #kisslinux <icyphox> Hm. I don't think so?
2020-01-15T08:54:26 #kisslinux <icyphox> Where did you see that?
2020-01-15T08:54:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/jorgicio/jorgicio-gentoo-overlay/issues/171
2020-01-15T08:54:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/jorgicio/jorgicio-gentoo-overlay/commit/92dc63ff6bba759fab1ad7a447077b300a324941
2020-01-15T08:55:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> >
2020-01-15T08:55:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Package maintainers: the filters have been rewritten in awk, dropping
2020-01-15T08:55:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> the Python dependencies. w3m and dante are both still required for HTML
2020-01-15T08:55:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> email, but the HTML filter has been commented out in the default config
2020-01-15T08:55:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> file.
2020-01-15T08:55:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/aerc-announce/%3CBVVZUNEKQFE2.HQ0LK8VY88O7%40homura%3E
2020-01-15T08:55:37 #kisslinux <icyphox> Oh yeah.
2020-01-15T08:55:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK. So Python is still needed for HTML
2020-01-15T08:55:48 #kisslinux <icyphox> The HTML filter is commented out by default.
2020-01-15T08:55:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-15T08:55:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is fine then.
2020-01-15T08:55:59 #kisslinux <icyphox> So not a direct dependency. But an optional one.
2020-01-15T08:56:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will merge your PR
2020-01-15T08:56:10 #kisslinux <icyphox> Great. Thanks.
2020-01-15T08:56:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Now, let me install it and we can confirm things between our installs.
2020-01-15T08:57:38 #kisslinux <icyphox> Sure.
2020-01-15T08:57:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try 'rm -rf ~/.config/aerc/'
2020-01-15T08:58:03 #kisslinux <icyphox> Side note: any reason you don't squash and merge? It makes the tree look cleaner :P
2020-01-15T08:58:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh
2020-01-15T08:58:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I had it set to squash and merge
2020-01-15T08:58:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Did GitHub reset it? :(
2020-01-15T08:58:42 #kisslinux <icyphox> Oh! Yes. It's '~/.config/aerc' that was the culprit.
2020-01-15T08:58:50 #kisslinux <icyphox> Fixed.
2020-01-15T08:58:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Heh
2020-01-15T08:59:30 #kisslinux <icyphox> Yeah, I think GitHub reset it. I always check before I click bcs I don't trust GitHub lol.
2020-01-15T08:59:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Seems to have been reset two weeks ago
2020-01-15T08:59:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/community/commit/05b6a6804a174ab804becafd09c94c97190d6ca5
2020-01-15T08:59:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Grrr
2020-01-15T09:00:29 #kisslinux <icyphox> Hah
2020-01-15T09:02:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What is up with all of these newfangled replacements for all programs embedding terminal emulators?
2020-01-15T09:03:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Neovim and aerc come to mind
2020-01-15T09:04:00 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol
2020-01-15T09:04:07 #kisslinux <icyphox> I don't understand either.
2020-01-15T09:04:15 #kisslinux <icyphox> Entirely unnecessary.
2020-01-15T09:04:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-15T09:04:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And
2020-01-15T09:04:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> When you run in tmux you're actually running inside another terminal emulator.
2020-01-15T09:05:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Example: xterm -> tmux (term) -> neovim (term) -> aerc (term) -> echo hi
2020-01-15T09:05:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is sane apparently
2020-01-15T09:06:08 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol
2020-01-15T09:06:15 #kisslinux <icyphox> Sigh.
2020-01-15T09:07:58 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylanaraps: Package dependencies are built from community as well right?
2020-01-15T09:08:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2020-01-15T09:08:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It is no different to the official repositories in its function
2020-01-15T09:08:36 #kisslinux <icyphox> Alright.
2020-01-15T09:08:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So long as you have community in your KISS_PATH
2020-01-15T09:09:22 #kisslinux <icyphox> BTW, I'm getting a checksum mismatch for the latest linux-headers.
2020-01-15T09:09:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2020-01-15T09:10:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try 'rm ~/.cache/kiss/source/linux-headers/linux-4.19.95.tar.xz'
2020-01-15T09:10:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Btw, this means one of two things.
2020-01-15T09:10:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 1) I forgot to run 'kiss c pkg'.
2020-01-15T09:10:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 2) I ran 'kiss c pkg' and your download didn't finish properly.
2020-01-15T09:10:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Actually 3)
2020-01-15T09:11:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 3) (rare) The source has been changed
2020-01-15T09:11:24 #kisslinux <icyphox> Hm.
2020-01-15T09:11:29 #kisslinux <icyphox> Okay, I'll try that.
2020-01-15T09:11:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 1 and 2 are *fine* but 3 is where the checksum system guards you
2020-01-15T09:12:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a good thing if it is 3 as you then know that what you were going to build doesn't match what I built
2020-01-15T09:12:17 #kisslinux <icyphox> Works.
2020-01-15T09:12:19 #kisslinux <icyphox> Thanks.
2020-01-15T09:12:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :)
2020-01-15T09:12:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Basically, try deleting the source if it happens again (with any package)
2020-01-15T09:12:57 #kisslinux <icyphox> Yep
2020-01-15T09:12:58 #kisslinux <icyphox> :)
2020-01-15T09:13:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you still get a checksum error, chances are I forgot to update the checksums
2020-01-15T09:13:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Contact me and I'll fix it
2020-01-15T09:13:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then we can also figure out if it is #3 (never happened before)
2020-01-15T09:14:43 #kisslinux <icyphox> Ah.
2020-01-15T09:14:55 #kisslinux <icyphox> Well a borked download will result in 3 right?
2020-01-15T09:15:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A borked download results in #2
2020-01-15T09:15:20 #kisslinux <icyphox> Oh, that's 2.
2020-01-15T09:15:28 #kisslinux <icyphox> Yeah. Gotcha.
2020-01-15T09:19:01 #kisslinux <icyphox> goddammit
2020-01-15T09:19:13 #kisslinux <icyphox> st keeps crashing when someone sends certain emoji.
2020-01-15T09:19:15 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol
2020-01-15T09:19:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-15T09:19:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2020-01-15T09:19:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do you have an emoji font?
2020-01-15T09:20:11 #kisslinux <icyphox> Don't think so.
2020-01-15T09:20:25 #kisslinux <icyphox> st can just /not/ display the char lol. Why crash.
2020-01-15T09:20:43 #kisslinux <icyphox> Oh I have all of noto-fonts.
2020-01-15T09:20:49 #kisslinux <icyphox> 1.1gb
2020-01-15T09:21:02 #kisslinux <icyphox> That should suffice, right?
2020-01-15T09:22:02 #kisslinux <icyphox> Solved it. Left the channel where the emoji was sent.
2020-01-15T09:22:04 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol
2020-01-15T09:22:16 #kisslinux <icyphox> ZNC kept playing it back each time.
2020-01-15T09:26:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-15T09:46:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-15T11:37:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Cat update: He went outside and sat in the sun
2020-01-15T11:37:56 #kisslinux <icyphox> YAY!
2020-01-15T12:00:08 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> Awesome
2020-01-15T12:18:38 #kisslinux <dzove855> awesome
2020-01-15T12:30:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reminder to anyone having Firefox crashes to try the possible fixes in this issue: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/136#issuecomment-574545319
2020-01-15T12:30:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also to send me logs of the crash: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/136#issuecomment-574407398
2020-01-15T13:03:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm building a new Firefox-bin, we'll see if this fixes the issue.
2020-01-15T13:11:52 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylanaraps: Still not squashing commits lol
2020-01-15T13:12:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh oops
2020-01-15T13:12:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I forgot to set it after we talked abou it
2020-01-15T13:12:53 #kisslinux <icyphox> Haha
2020-01-15T13:25:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss l | wc -l
2020-01-15T13:25:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 129
2020-01-15T13:25:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> nice
2020-01-15T13:25:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks firefox-bin
2020-01-15T13:26:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-15T13:48:08 #kisslinux <paradigm> lieuxnoir: I've tested basic KISS stuff with Bedrock a ways back.  Everything I tried worked fine.  One thing I did not test is KISS's init with Bedrock.  There's a known issue with Bedrock's interaction with Slackware's and CRUX's init which results in freezing on shutdown.  That might hit KISS as well.  Or it might not.  If you have a KISS VM on hand, it's probably worth a quick test.
2020-01-15T13:48:14 #kisslinux <paradigm> lieuxnoir: If it does replicate on KISS, an easy work around for now is to just use another distro's init (e.g. Alpine's OpenRC or Void's Runit).  From a Bedrock perspective requiring that is disappointing and not intended to be the long term solution.  I hope to fix the underlying Bedrock issue at some point, probably some months from now, but I can't make any promises.
2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ## Description of package
2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ## Checklist
2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] Latest upstream version.
2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] I agree to maintain this package (**required**).
2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] I agree to notify KISS if I can no longer maintain this package (**required**).
2020-01-15T13:54:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ## Description of package
2020-01-15T13:54:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ## Checklist
2020-01-15T13:54:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] Latest upstream version.
2020-01-15T13:54:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] I agree to maintain this package (**required**).
2020-01-15T13:54:22 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] I agree to notify KISS if I can no longer maintain this package (**required**).
2020-01-15T13:54:42 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> oops
2020-01-15T13:55:11 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> my scroll button pastes stuff lol
2020-01-15T13:56:08 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> did not know that until now
2020-01-15T13:59:35 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> paradigm: Thanks! I might also do some tests in the coming weeks. I only wanted to access Arch's official and AU repos and see if they go well. But that's best to know.
2020-01-15T14:00:16 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> dwfgx
2020-01-15T14:00:32 #kisslinux <konimex> both slackware and CRUX still use sysvinit, right?
2020-01-15T14:00:36 #kisslinux <paradigm> Arch's repos and the AUR both get tons of testing in Bedrock and should be fine.  Getting most of your basics from KISS (potentially baring the init concern) but miscellaneous other things from Arch seems perfectly viable.
2020-01-15T14:02:05 #kisslinux <paradigm> Slackware and CRUX use "BSD-style" rather than "SysV-style" init.  They're more like each other than the other big names today.
2020-01-15T14:02:49 #kisslinux <konimex> iirc that's the rc, not the /sbin/init
2020-01-15T14:03:27 #kisslinux * paradigm nods
2020-01-15T14:57:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I want to open forums for KISS
2020-01-15T14:58:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> s/forums/a forum/
2020-01-15T14:59:43 #kisslinux <konimex> is the subreddit not enough?
2020-01-15T15:01:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reddit is one large feed and I don't think it works well.
2020-01-15T15:01:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Plus I miss the classic forum structure
2020-01-15T15:01:56 #kisslinux <konimex> hmmm... you want a normal forum accessible from browser or old bbs style with telnet/ssh and all that jazz?
2020-01-15T15:02:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Dunno if I'll do it yet of course
2020-01-15T15:03:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Dunno about telnet/ssh either
2020-01-15T15:04:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can hack a forum together without a backend with little effort.
2020-01-15T15:04:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ie, fully static
2020-01-15T15:05:28 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> what will the backend look like?
2020-01-15T15:05:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No backend
2020-01-15T15:06:58 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> how are threads saved?
2020-01-15T15:07:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> On the frontend
2020-01-15T15:07:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's hard to explain
2020-01-15T15:08:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I did the same for a realestate website I made
2020-01-15T15:08:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can then host it 100% free :P
2020-01-15T15:37:34 #kisslinux <paradigm> For Bedrock, I gave up managing my own forum due to spam fighting concerns and outsourced it.  We're currently using linuxquestions.org.  They don't charge me anything; they just ask I'm available to answer questions.  I'm sure they'd love to have KISS if that makes things easier on you.  However, if you can make a static self-hosted solution and aren't worried about spam, I can certainly see that
2020-01-15T15:37:40 #kisslinux <paradigm> being preferable.
2020-01-15T17:13:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS will soon have Surf + webkitgtk thanks to cemkeylan https://github.com/kisslinux/community/issues/212#issuecomment-574744996
2020-01-15T17:13:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Finally! I am back to surf. I will be cleaning stuff up and open a PR when they are all ready.
2020-01-15T17:21:36 #kisslinux <mahmudov> whats the difference carbs linux from kiss?
2020-01-15T17:39:51 #kisslinux <Aarg> neat
2020-01-15T17:39:59 #kisslinux <Aarg> is webkitgtk actually usable?
2020-01-15T17:40:55 #kisslinux <Aarg> I remember most browsers using it where quite broken (dwb, uzbl, surf etc)
2020-01-15T17:42:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No idea
2020-01-15T17:42:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's an alternative to Firefox either way :P
2020-01-15T17:43:28 #kisslinux <Aarg> yea, that's good
2020-01-15T17:45:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've heard that compile times are horrible though.
2020-01-15T17:46:43 #kisslinux <Aarg> It always used to be bad iirc
2020-01-15T17:53:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> I compiled webkitgtk once like over a year ago
2020-01-15T17:53:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> I can confirm the compile times are truly the worst
2020-01-15T17:55:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Aw, it requires ICU and possibly gettext
2020-01-15T17:55:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ICU would also become a dependency for everyone as harfbuzz has to link to it. :(
2020-01-15T17:58:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkitgtk also requires ruby weirdly
2020-01-15T18:00:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> mahmudov: No idea really. It's a fork of KISS.
2020-01-15T18:02:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It really should say that it's a fork of (or based on) KISS somewhere though.
2020-01-15T18:03:18 #kisslinux <mahmudov> just curious-
2020-01-15T18:03:52 #kisslinux <mahmudov> busybox is used instead of coreutils in kiss linux?
2020-01-15T18:05:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> mahmudov: Yeah, KISS uses busybox
2020-01-15T18:05:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> As does carbs linux
2020-01-15T18:06:07 #kisslinux <mahmudov> i see,
2020-01-15T18:06:20 #kisslinux <mahmudov> maybe thought is it the difference
2020-01-15T18:06:23 #kisslinux <mahmudov> just to be sure
2020-01-15T18:06:52 #kisslinux <mahmudov> btw what do you think about toybox?
2020-01-15T18:07:07 #kisslinux <mahmudov> it can be use replacement of busybox?
2020-01-15T18:07:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Toybox is interesting
2020-01-15T18:07:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't think it's 100% done yet though.
2020-01-15T18:07:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The goal is to allow you to swap to any coreutils in KISS.
2020-01-15T18:09:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Carbs is more a user repository with some additional packages spun as a new distribution.
2020-01-15T18:19:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Heh. I'm not mentioned in the license for the fork of the init scripts. https://github.com/CarbsLinux/init/blob/master/LICENSE
2020-01-15T18:20:24 #kisslinux <Guest83> News on cat?
2020-01-15T18:21:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Cat is doing cat stuff again.
2020-01-15T18:21:31 #kisslinux <Guest83> great news m8
2020-01-15T18:21:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Back to cleaning himself and showing his normal traits
2020-01-15T18:22:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks :)
2020-01-15T18:23:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He's still got a long way to go though.
2020-01-15T18:23:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not out of the woods yet.
2020-01-15T18:24:32 #kisslinux <Guest83> positive signs. best wishes to cat
2020-01-15T18:25:38 #kisslinux <Guest83> is your clock correct?
2020-01-15T18:26:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Wed Jan 15 20:23:44 EET 2020
2020-01-15T18:26:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Looks to be
2020-01-15T18:26:21 #kisslinux <Guest83> git commits are showing some being committed at a future time again
2020-01-15T18:26:47 #kisslinux <Guest83> like in a few minutes ....?
2020-01-15T18:26:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can see that too actually.
2020-01-15T18:27:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "committed in 1 minute"
2020-01-15T18:27:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hm. I haven't touched the clock or anything related to it.
2020-01-15T18:27:49 #kisslinux <Guest83> strange
2020-01-15T18:28:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My time is actually two minutes slow according to an online clock for where I am.
2020-01-15T18:33:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://cemkeylan.com/2019/12/03/carbs-linux.html
2020-01-15T18:33:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Looks like he was developing his own distro, found KISS and forked it instead.
2020-01-15T18:39:33 #kisslinux <E5ten> mahmudov: toybox is the best :))
2020-01-15T18:43:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How is toybox development recently?
2020-01-15T18:45:03 #kisslinux <mahmudov> erstwhile developer of toybox also was developing aboriginal linux
2020-01-15T18:46:00 #kisslinux <mahmudov> was coming with toybox defaultly..
2020-01-15T18:46:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2020-01-15T18:46:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I remember Aboriginal Linux
2020-01-15T18:46:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Didn't know it was the same developer.
2020-01-15T18:46:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> he's working on the shell a lot right now
2020-01-15T18:46:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ooo
2020-01-15T18:46:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> trying to reimplement bash in like 3k lines I think lol
2020-01-15T18:47:06 #kisslinux <mahmudov> yeb same
2020-01-15T18:47:48 #kisslinux <mahmudov> http://landley.net/aboriginal/
2020-01-15T18:52:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I find this odd actually: https://github.com/landley/toybox/issues/77
2020-01-15T19:13:55 #kisslinux <Aarg> +1
2020-01-15T19:14:16 #kisslinux <Aarg> very weird choice
2020-01-15T19:14:49 #kisslinux <Aarg> Interactive features I could understand
2020-01-15T19:29:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> find . -type f -name *.rb | wc -l
2020-01-15T19:29:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 44
2020-01-15T19:29:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2020-01-15T19:29:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkit2gtk has 44 ruby scripts used during the build process(?)
2020-01-15T19:30:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or are they used at runtime as well?
2020-01-15T19:30:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > ./Source/JavaScriptCore/offlineasm/arm64.rb
2020-01-15T19:30:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > ./Source/JavaScriptCore/bytecode/BytecodeList.rb
2020-01-15T19:32:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114560
2020-01-15T19:32:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just build time
2020-01-15T19:36:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK
2020-01-15T19:36:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have solved the harfbuzz-icu issue.
2020-01-15T20:02:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> in kiss init's pseudo fs part isn't the -p on the mkdir unnecessary cuz the dirs being created are one level subdirectories of directories created in the previous mounting commands?
2020-01-15T20:04:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2020-01-15T20:05:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though this removes errors if they already exist too.
2020-01-15T20:05:43 #kisslinux <E5ten> ah didn't think about that
2020-01-15T20:06:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -p is the magical flag
2020-01-15T20:07:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> also not that it'd ever actually be an issue but in the tries=) case line I think ${opt#=} instead of ${opt##*=} should be used because even though an argument to -T containing an = wouldn't be valid, if it was provided the wrong argument would be given
2020-01-15T20:08:07 #kisslinux <E5ten>  * also not that it'd ever actually be an issue but in the tries=*) case line I think ${opt#*=} instead of ${opt##*=} should be used because even though an argument to -T containing an = wouldn't be valid, if it was provided the wrong argument would be given
2020-01-15T20:08:35 #kisslinux <E5ten>  * also not that it'd ever actually be an issue but in the tries=) case line I think ${opt#*=} instead of ${opt##=} should be used because even though an argument to -T containing an = wouldn't be valid, if it was provided the wrong argument would be given
2020-01-15T20:08:52 #kisslinux <E5ten>  * also not that it'd ever actually be an issue but in the tries=*) case line I think ${opt#*=} instead of ${opt##*=} should be used because even though an argument to -T containing an = wouldn't be valid, if it was provided the wrong argument would be given
2020-01-15T20:08:59 #kisslinux <adamantium> E5ten: !!!!!!!!!
2020-01-15T20:09:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-01-15T20:09:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-15T20:09:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> hi guys btw
2020-01-15T20:09:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ello
2020-01-15T20:09:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> im trying to package up vanilla sources with gentoo patches
2020-01-15T20:09:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> probably will go in the overlay...
2020-01-15T20:09:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: I really don't want to touch the cryptsetup stuff if I don't have to.
2020-01-15T20:09:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-15T20:10:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah but you're making it so that if someone passed like tries=thisisn'tvalid=5 cryptsetup would get passed -T 5 as if a correct arg was provided
2020-01-15T20:11:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Gotcha
2020-01-15T20:14:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> and I think probably the last thing, but are subdirs of the sysctl.d directories supposed to be supported?
2020-01-15T20:14:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-01-15T20:14:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> According to the docs for --system
2020-01-15T20:14:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hence the find call
2020-01-15T20:14:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't think they are so you could probably ditch find and use [ -f filevar ] || continue in the loop
2020-01-15T20:15:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or am I wong?
2020-01-15T20:15:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't think subdirs are supported?
2020-01-15T20:15:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/procps/sysctl.8.en.html
2020-01-15T20:15:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Under "--system"
2020-01-15T20:16:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh
2020-01-15T20:16:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I am wrong
2020-01-15T20:16:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-15T20:16:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lovely
2020-01-15T20:16:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> less code
2020-01-15T20:16:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks E5ten
2020-01-15T20:17:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> nothing like the removal of an external command from a script
2020-01-15T20:17:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Feels good
2020-01-15T20:19:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Support for the CURL backend was dropped, libsoup is the only HTTP
2020-01-15T20:19:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>     backend now.
2020-01-15T20:19:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :(
2020-01-15T20:19:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (webkit2gtk)
2020-01-15T20:20:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> what's that from?
2020-01-15T20:20:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkit2gtk
2020-01-15T20:20:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Used to support curl but now requires GNOME crap
2020-01-15T20:20:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> ah
2020-01-15T20:20:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm working through to package this from scratch
2020-01-15T20:21:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's gross
2020-01-15T20:21:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But a different gross to Firefox
2020-01-15T20:22:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> it's inherently gross cuz it's GNOME software ;)
2020-01-15T20:22:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> glib-networking up next
2020-01-15T20:22:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> meson :(
2020-01-15T20:22:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> why
2020-01-15T20:23:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> you don't like meson?
2020-01-15T20:23:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't like Python
2020-01-15T20:23:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't either lol, that's why I dislike meson relative to cmake
2020-01-15T20:24:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> but I still like it more than autotools
2020-01-15T20:24:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> A. because holy shit it's so much worse like what the fuck how does autotools exists and B. because I dislike GNU more than I dislike python
2020-01-15T20:24:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> More dependencies: libbrotlidec libpsl
2020-01-15T20:25:28 #kisslinux <E5ten> is this actually worth it
2020-01-15T20:25:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's nothing wrong with autotools. See grub's 30k line configure script
2020-01-15T20:25:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: No
2020-01-15T20:26:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's work being done by the Carbs Linux guy to get webkit2gtk into community
2020-01-15T20:26:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's issues with his package (needing to add ICU to core repositories etc)
2020-01-15T20:27:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rather than say "No" I'd rather come up with solutions to the problems.
2020-01-15T20:27:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm doing it from scratch as I've found a bunch of incomplete dependency lists and issues with each dep.
2020-01-15T20:27:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also, an alternative to Firefox would be nice
2020-01-15T20:27:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (No matter what it is)
2020-01-15T20:28:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> but the packages are inherently the problems because they're GNOME software
2020-01-15T20:28:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The other alternative is qtwebshit which is awful on musl systems
2020-01-15T20:28:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :(
2020-01-15T20:29:11 #kisslinux <E5ten> like unbuildable period or requiring heavy patching?
2020-01-15T20:29:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Alpine and Void's qtwebengine has been broken for years
2020-01-15T20:29:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> we should get this webkit into shape
2020-01-15T20:29:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lots and lots of patching as well
2020-01-15T20:29:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: I am
2020-01-15T20:29:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> it's just a bunch of ruby build time deps
2020-01-15T20:29:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> no no
2020-01-15T20:29:43 #kisslinux <adamantium> :D
2020-01-15T20:30:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> in fairness that could just be that nobody on alpine or void who're be able to get the patches up to date so it builds use it
2020-01-15T20:30:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This may actually be worse than Firefox
2020-01-15T20:30:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-01-15T20:30:40 #kisslinux <adamantium> i dont believe you
2020-01-15T20:30:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've started work on qtwebengine by packaging qt5 btw
2020-01-15T20:30:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Baby steps
2020-01-15T20:30:51 #kisslinux <adamantium> The thing that pisses me about firefox is rust
2020-01-15T20:30:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-15T20:31:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> i dont want to compile rust, and rust compiles single threaded
2020-01-15T20:31:04 #kisslinux <adamantium> takes forever
2020-01-15T20:31:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rust is disgusting
2020-01-15T20:31:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> rust is just more corporate libre propagandists circle jerk
2020-01-15T20:31:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> ok im going back to work now
2020-01-15T20:32:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/
2020-01-15T20:32:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> "work"
2020-01-15T20:32:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> ;)
2020-01-15T20:32:58 #kisslinux <adamantium> btw we dont have dbus so i do not have a good notify system
2020-01-15T20:33:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> but if you /query me it will get my attention, it creates an Emacs popup in my ERC
2020-01-15T20:33:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Birch has no support for /query :P
2020-01-15T20:33:33 #kisslinux <adamantium> geez........
2020-01-15T20:34:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hey, it's a WIP
2020-01-15T20:34:53 #kisslinux <adamantium> k
2020-01-15T20:35:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> you should try to get qt5-webengine working instead of this tbh, might be a disaster on musl but if you do get it working it'll mean you'll be able to have browsers that both don't need rust to compile and aren't GNOME crap
2020-01-15T20:35:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> It is a lot of work to get "surf"
2020-01-15T20:35:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> :D
2020-01-15T20:36:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What are the dependencies like?
2020-01-15T20:36:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> I disagree though
2020-01-15T20:37:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> The work has already begun on webkit-gtk, why either or not and not both
2020-01-15T20:37:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> you can enable a lot of bundled deps which I did so idk the full list but for me it's like some X libs, expat, nss, and some qt libs
2020-01-15T20:37:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Nice. Will take a look once I'm done here.
2020-01-15T20:38:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> ok so without bundling the other libs are ffmpeg, opus, webp and :(((( icu
2020-01-15T20:39:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :((((((((((
2020-01-15T20:39:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Can we bundle ICU?
2020-01-15T20:39:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah
2020-01-15T20:39:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> phew
2020-01-15T20:39:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> -qt-webengine-icu
2020-01-15T20:39:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> it'll build it in
2020-01-15T20:39:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No system infection
2020-01-15T20:40:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> yep
2020-01-15T20:40:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> so I mean I still think that having to have bundled icu is less of a loss than requiring rust to build or being GNOME crap that depends on a bunch of other GNOME crap
2020-01-15T20:41:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I agree
2020-01-15T20:41:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/issues/2368
2020-01-15T20:41:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/tree/community/qt5-qtwebengine?h=master
2020-01-15T20:42:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We can do a better job though.
2020-01-15T20:42:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah I expect this is something that can be overcome
2020-01-15T20:42:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This "impossible" stuff motivates me :^)
2020-01-15T20:46:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: I've already reduced the webkit2gtk deps
2020-01-15T20:47:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :( Libxslt is the XSLT C library developed for the GNOME project.
2020-01-15T20:48:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :(
2020-01-15T20:51:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> Damn qt5-webengine also has a crappy build dep, requires python2 specifically (seems to be because chromium does not cuz webengine does specifically)
2020-01-15T20:53:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Damn
2020-01-15T20:53:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They had how many years to migrate?
2020-01-15T20:56:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> heh https://termbin.com/a3s9
2020-01-15T20:57:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: you're not going to like this https://termbin.com/edpo
2020-01-15T20:59:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2020-01-15T21:01:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My webkit2gtk package (and dependencies) includes fewer dependencies :DDDD
2020-01-15T21:01:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It passes configure now
2020-01-15T21:01:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fails at gettext though.
2020-01-15T21:01:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is where the fun begins
2020-01-15T21:01:59 #kisslinux <adamantium> gettext is wicked
2020-01-15T21:10:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh
2020-01-15T21:10:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkit2gtk supports disabling gettext but it's broken
2020-01-15T21:10:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2020-01-15T21:10:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> both cool, and also fun
2020-01-15T21:11:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They forgot it could be disabled basically
2020-01-15T21:11:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then went ahead and added more gettext
2020-01-15T21:16:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I win gettext >:D
2020-01-15T21:17:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [524/4009] Building CXX object Source/WTF/wtf/CMakeFiles/WTF.dir/text/icu/UTextProviderLatin1.cpp.o
2020-01-15T21:17:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [2054/4009] Building CXX object Source/WTF/wtf/CMakeFiles/WTF.dir/RandomNumber.cpp.o
2020-01-15T21:17:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Uh
2020-01-15T21:17:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is fast
2020-01-15T21:17:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Something must be wrong
2020-01-15T21:18:12 #kisslinux <merakor> Until 2000 it is fast
2020-01-15T21:18:17 #kisslinux <merakor> It slows down
2020-01-15T21:18:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Good to know
2020-01-15T21:18:34 #kisslinux <merakor> By 3000, it will be dead slow
2020-01-15T21:19:27 #kisslinux <merakor> I'm cem by the way :D
2020-01-15T21:19:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wonderful
2020-01-15T21:19:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hello
2020-01-15T21:20:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I fixed the harfbuzz ICU issue by creating a new package called harfbuzz-icu.
2020-01-15T21:20:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> harfbuzz is actually already split in this way upstream.
2020-01-15T21:20:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So it's easy to do
2020-01-15T21:20:57 #kisslinux <merakor> Is it like freetype-harfbuzz where both of them are built into a single package?
2020-01-15T21:21:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> no no
2020-01-15T21:21:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ICU is still separate
2020-01-15T21:21:16 #kisslinux <merakor> Oh I see
2020-01-15T21:21:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I added harfbuzz-icu
2020-01-15T21:21:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Which builds harfbuzz's ICU stuff
2020-01-15T21:21:39 #kisslinux <merakor> Oh that makes sense
2020-01-15T21:21:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This then depends on ICU and freetype-harfbuzz
2020-01-15T21:22:01 #kisslinux <merakor> So we keep icu out of freetype-harfbuzz
2020-01-15T21:22:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also managed to drop some dependencies.
2020-01-15T21:22:05 #kisslinux <merakor> Much more sane
2020-01-15T21:22:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2020-01-15T21:22:13 #kisslinux <merakor> Which ones?
2020-01-15T21:22:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> glib-networking gettext libidn2 libtasn1
2020-01-15T21:22:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I believe
2020-01-15T21:23:52 #kisslinux <merakor> I saw the gettext bit
2020-01-15T21:23:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It may be more actually
2020-01-15T21:24:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is my list:
2020-01-15T21:24:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> icu, libXslt libpsl libsoup webkit2gtk
2020-01-15T21:24:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> and harfbuzz-icu
2020-01-15T21:24:44 #kisslinux <merakor> It is really funny that they forgot to disable gettext when you pass the option
2020-01-15T21:24:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (of new dependencies which don't already exist in the repos)
2020-01-15T21:24:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup...
2020-01-15T21:25:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mozilla did the same with Firefox and dbus
2020-01-15T21:25:20 #kisslinux <merakor> Web engine development is actually cancer
2020-01-15T21:25:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It is
2020-01-15T21:26:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This build is really slow now
2020-01-15T21:26:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks c++
2020-01-15T21:26:50 #kisslinux <merakor> You either get somethint that does not conform to web standards and can't run 90 percent of web functionality, or you get a pile of garbage that does everything terribly
2020-01-15T21:27:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And the web standards are ever growing
2020-01-15T21:28:04 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, like we don't already have more than have enough javascript hell
2020-01-15T21:28:18 #kisslinux <merakor> More than enough*
2020-01-15T21:28:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How long does this take your machine to build?
2020-01-15T21:29:05 #kisslinux <merakor> I usually get bored and leave my computer, but around half an hour
2020-01-15T21:29:24 #kisslinux <merakor> It's an I7 8th gen laptop
2020-01-15T21:30:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have an  Intel i7-6500U
2020-01-15T21:31:16 #kisslinux <merakor> The actual issue is cores
2020-01-15T21:31:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will take me longer me thinks
2020-01-15T21:31:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-15T21:31:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Only got 4
2020-01-15T21:31:39 #kisslinux <merakor> I got 12
2020-01-15T21:32:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2020-01-15T21:32:28 #kisslinux <merakor> It will probably take an hour for you since the build doesn't benefit much from them
2020-01-15T21:32:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [2333/4009]
2020-01-15T21:32:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Maybe longer.
2020-01-15T21:32:50 #kisslinux <merakor> Oh
2020-01-15T21:33:14 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah mine would be at 3000 right now
2020-01-15T21:33:23 #kisslinux <merakor> Then it gets really slower
2020-01-15T21:33:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll leave this for tomorrow while I'm busy.
2020-01-15T21:34:31 #kisslinux <merakor> It also sucks when you wait that long and it fails. At least we fixed the issues that happen near the end.
2020-01-15T21:34:44 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah that's probably for the best
2020-01-15T21:35:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-15T21:35:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox was failing 2 hours in for me the other day.
2020-01-15T21:35:31 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, same for me too.
2020-01-15T21:35:44 #kisslinux <merakor> I am glad that now I am back to using surf.
2020-01-15T21:36:32 #kisslinux <merakor> I have been using it for a long time, I was having brain farts using Firefox and netsurf.
2020-01-15T21:36:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Does your build include the sandbox?
2020-01-15T21:36:57 #kisslinux <merakor> No I disabled it
2020-01-15T21:37:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We'll need to enable it.
2020-01-15T21:37:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/15/mozilla-lays-off-70-as-it-waits-for-subscription-products-to-generate-revenue/?guccounter=2
2020-01-15T21:37:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Mozilla lays off 70 as it waits for new products to generate revenue
2020-01-15T21:38:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Better time as any to look for alternatives.
2020-01-15T21:38:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > The overall number may still be higher, though, as Mozilla is still looking into how this decision will affect workers in the UK and France.
2020-01-15T21:38:41 #kisslinux <konimex> how many of the 70 sacked there are actual devs as opposed to marketing/legal?
2020-01-15T21:38:46 #kisslinux <merakor> Why do we need to enable sandbox? I don't exactly know what it changes.
2020-01-15T21:39:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mozilla spent $50,000,000 on marketing in 2018 lol
2020-01-15T21:39:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They receive hundreds of millions from Google
2020-01-15T21:39:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mozillas 2017 revenue was 562.3 million USD
2020-01-15T21:39:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> s/Mozillas/Mozilla's/
2020-01-15T21:40:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Something doesn't add up
2020-01-15T21:40:43 #kisslinux <E5ten> yikes
2020-01-15T21:41:56 #kisslinux <konimex> mozilla's projects are not just firefox, but now rust, I guess that cost as much as firefox nowadays
2020-01-15T21:42:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In 2018 mozilla had 368 million USD in assets.
2020-01-15T21:42:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They don't support rust like they do Firefox iirc.
2020-01-15T21:43:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The Rust devs are starting a foundation to seek corporate funds.
2020-01-15T21:43:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh right I forgot to mention, qt5-webengine does require slight modification to not use dbus
2020-01-15T21:43:08 #kisslinux <merakor> They will probably pull the plugs from rust.
2020-01-15T21:43:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> lemme know when you're trying it and I'll send a patch
2020-01-15T21:43:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Thanks
2020-01-15T21:44:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1217512049716035584/photo/1
2020-01-15T21:44:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just the chart
2020-01-15T21:44:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not the rest of the Twitter crap
2020-01-15T21:45:14 #kisslinux <merakor> Mozilla cares about things that will get them money. Rust didn't turn out as good as the initial appraisal, they started backing away from it.
2020-01-15T21:45:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Red is the CEO paycheck)
2020-01-15T21:45:51 #kisslinux <merakor> The only reason they act loving towards privacy and open source is Google
2020-01-15T21:46:05 #kisslinux <merakor> Also netscape GPL forces them to
2020-01-15T21:46:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (In the 70 sacked are QA, Security and Release Management people)
2020-01-15T21:47:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2020/01/15/readying-for-the-future-at-mozilla/
2020-01-15T21:48:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What an empty letter
2020-01-15T21:48:46 #kisslinux <merakor> 4 paragraphs of BS
2020-01-15T21:49:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [3070/4009]
2020-01-15T21:49:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Heh
2020-01-15T21:50:12 #kisslinux <merakor> It's not that bad actually, half an hour now?
2020-01-15T21:50:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> About that long, yeah
2020-01-15T21:50:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://twitter.com/grmpyprogrammer/status/1217527164255592449
2020-01-15T21:50:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > All the leads in QA got let go.
2020-01-15T21:52:33 #kisslinux <merakor> It will probably be done in about 20 minutes
2020-01-15T21:54:05 #kisslinux <merakor> Perhaps everybody is disposable on the eyes of Baker
2020-01-15T21:55:10 #kisslinux <adamantium> lmk when webkitgtk2 is ready for testing guys
2020-01-15T21:55:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> i'll be more than happy to
2020-01-15T21:55:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> (hurry up)
2020-01-15T21:55:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> :P
2020-01-15T21:55:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I need to get it to build with the sandbox enabled first.
2020-01-15T21:56:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This unsandboxed build will finish soon though.
2020-01-15T21:56:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> I bet it's going to be crashy
2020-01-15T21:56:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-01-15T21:57:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> what does sandboxed do
2020-01-15T22:02:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh
2020-01-15T22:02:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The webkit2gtk sandbox is pointless anyway
2020-01-15T22:02:52 #kisslinux <merakor> It also requires dbus iirc
2020-01-15T22:03:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2020-01-15T22:03:01 #kisslinux <merakor> Not sure though
2020-01-15T22:03:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But it only sandboxes filesystem access, network access and dbus access.
2020-01-15T22:03:48 #kisslinux <merakor> Yup it does
2020-01-15T22:04:49 #kisslinux <merakor> What else could it sandbox though?
2020-01-15T22:05:24 #kisslinux <merakor> Other processes?
2020-01-15T22:05:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Xorg, Audo device access and GPU access
2020-01-15T22:05:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> s/Audo/Audio/
2020-01-15T22:05:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm reading their presentation slides from last year.
2020-01-15T22:06:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They're hoping PipeWire and Wayland save them from Xorg/Pulseaudio
2020-01-15T22:06:33 #kisslinux <merakor> But we are already building without opengl and audio support
2020-01-15T22:06:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hence why the sandbox covers only the above 3 I mentioned
2020-01-15T22:06:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Exactly
2020-01-15T22:07:43 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah wayland isn't going to be suddenly standardized in the foreseen future either.
2020-01-15T22:08:26 #kisslinux <merakor> Waiting for pipewire and wayland is not a smart move
2020-01-15T22:09:02 #kisslinux <merakor> But it's a web engine and no web engine has smart moves granted for them.
2020-01-15T22:09:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> IBM
2020-01-15T22:09:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Is all I'll say
2020-01-15T22:10:59 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah well
2020-01-15T22:11:48 #kisslinux <merakor> Gnome and KDE have their implementations but they are extremely specificly made for their own environments
2020-01-15T22:12:04 #kisslinux <merakor> It is also not easy for the end user to configure
2020-01-15T22:13:08 #kisslinux <merakor> X11 might be in a bad spot, but most users prefer it for good reason.
2020-01-15T22:14:33 #kisslinux <adamantium> It'd be better to just let surf/webkit2 people figure out something like firejail for themselves
2020-01-15T22:14:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> I think
2020-01-15T22:16:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just run it as a separate user
2020-01-15T22:17:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No access to your home dir at all
2020-01-15T22:17:03 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> howdy
2020-01-15T22:17:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ello
2020-01-15T22:18:46 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, there is always an option for people who would like such access control.
2020-01-15T22:18:55 #kisslinux <merakor> How is the build going?
2020-01-15T22:19:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3274/4009]
2020-01-15T22:19:57 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> whatcha building?
2020-01-15T22:21:06 #kisslinux <merakor> WebKit-GTK
2020-01-15T22:21:20 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> eww
2020-01-15T22:21:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yup
2020-01-15T22:22:24 #kisslinux <merakor> In suckless's surf homepage, it says compile your own webkit or expect hell
2020-01-15T22:22:41 #kisslinux <merakor> They should replace it
2020-01-15T22:22:59 #kisslinux <merakor> Compile your own webkit AND expect hell
2020-01-15T22:29:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps:  what is your cpu
2020-01-15T22:29:11 #kisslinux <adamantium> i'm surprised it's taking this long!
2020-01-15T22:29:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Intel i7-6500U
2020-01-15T22:30:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3344/4009]
2020-01-15T22:30:40 #kisslinux <adamantium> oh ok, so 2.5ghz with 2 cores thats why
2020-01-15T22:31:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 4 threads though :P
2020-01-15T22:31:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> i just upgraded my workstation from 2ghz 6 core cpu to 3.6ghz 4 core. I can make -j8 instead of the -j12 like before but it's ripping through stuff really fast.
2020-01-15T22:32:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My actual PC is 6 core 5Ghz
2020-01-15T22:32:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ...
2020-01-15T22:32:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But
2020-01-15T22:32:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> nice
2020-01-15T22:32:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's on the other side of the world
2020-01-15T22:32:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In a box
2020-01-15T22:32:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> Much good that's doing you
2020-01-15T22:32:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh yes
2020-01-15T22:32:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> Where in the world abouts
2020-01-15T22:32:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Australia
2020-01-15T22:32:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm in Greece now
2020-01-15T22:33:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> Hopefully Kangaroo doesn't smash it
2020-01-15T22:33:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I built that PC years and years ago
2020-01-15T22:33:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Held together with tape and hope
2020-01-15T22:33:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-01-15T22:33:48 #kisslinux <konimex> fucking piece of shit sheff wed still managed to win 3-0, goodbye title race
2020-01-15T22:33:54 #kisslinux <konimex> whoops wrong window
2020-01-15T22:33:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-15T22:33:59 #kisslinux <merakor> Loool
2020-01-15T22:35:04 #kisslinux <merakor> You are from Australia?
2020-01-15T22:35:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2020-01-15T22:35:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though both of my parents are Greek
2020-01-15T22:37:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3404/4009]
2020-01-15T22:38:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> lmao using kiss to manage kernel sources is soooooooo slowwwwwwwwwww dylanaraps
2020-01-15T22:38:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> wdym?
2020-01-15T22:38:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh
2020-01-15T22:38:42 #kisslinux <adamantium> all the iterations kiss does over thousands of files
2020-01-15T22:38:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> package conflicts etc
2020-01-15T22:38:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> no conflicts...
2020-01-15T22:38:57 #kisslinux <adamantium> just all of the kiss checks
2020-01-15T22:39:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> it's  a good performance benchmark case for kiss I think
2020-01-15T22:39:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This should be faster when I release a new update
2020-01-15T22:39:34 #kisslinux <dzove855> aah? your migration to GNU grep ?
2020-01-15T22:39:35 #kisslinux <merakor> Oh, I see. I hope no one close to you is affected by the bushfires.
2020-01-15T22:39:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GNU grep and minor optimizations to the code itself.
2020-01-15T22:39:58 #kisslinux <adamantium> What about gnu grep ?
2020-01-15T22:40:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Should be faster in both cases.
2020-01-15T22:40:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though much much faster with GNU grep.
2020-01-15T22:40:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> oh interesting
2020-01-15T22:40:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> kiss will use gnu grep if available.
2020-01-15T22:40:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> haha you're welcome then
2020-01-15T22:40:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> ;)
2020-01-15T22:40:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> merakor: The news on the fires hasn't been accurate at all
2020-01-15T22:41:08 #kisslinux <merakor> Really?
2020-01-15T22:41:13 #kisslinux <merakor> How so?
2020-01-15T22:41:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Same goes for the news in Greece
2020-01-15T22:41:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's no economic crisis here
2020-01-15T22:42:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fires aren't as bad as they're made out to be and the animal death counts are false to give two examples
2020-01-15T22:42:17 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, I have been there. I love Greece.
2020-01-15T22:43:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3456/4009]
2020-01-15T22:45:17 #kisslinux <merakor> When I saw a news article about the bushfire was about to surround the earth completely, I thought that was a stretch, but I didn't think it wasn't as bad as the news outlets say.
2020-01-15T22:46:07 #kisslinux <adamantium>  anyone using the gcc native optimizations patch on the kernel
2020-01-15T22:46:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Me
2020-01-15T22:46:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> patch -p1 < 5012_enable-cpu-optimizations-for-gcc91.patch
2020-01-15T22:46:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> it workz
2020-01-15T22:46:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I use a different one though
2020-01-15T22:46:36 #kisslinux <adamantium> im using the gentoo one
2020-01-15T22:46:39 #kisslinux <adamantium> any reason not to?
2020-01-15T22:46:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> enable_additional_cpu_optimizations_for_gcc_v9.1%2
2020-01-15T22:46:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> B_kernel_v5.5%2B.patch
2020-01-15T22:46:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oops
2020-01-15T22:46:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That split in two
2020-01-15T22:47:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me get a proper link
2020-01-15T22:47:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> any reason not to use the gentoo one?
2020-01-15T22:47:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/graysky2/kernel_gcc_patch
2020-01-15T22:47:24 #kisslinux <adamantium> i was thinking they'd just do all the maintaining for me
2020-01-15T22:47:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No idea
2020-01-15T22:47:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> if you look at
2020-01-15T22:47:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This one is updated regularly too
2020-01-15T22:47:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They might be by the same guy lol
2020-01-15T22:47:49 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://dev.gentoo.org/~mpagano/genpatches
2020-01-15T22:47:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> they update the patches they use for every kernel version
2020-01-15T22:48:40 #kisslinux <adamantium> however i cannot get all of their recommended patches to apply cleanly one after another in a row to their proposed said versions
2020-01-15T22:48:53 #kisslinux <adamantium> So after a while I said screw it nothing is wrong with vanilla anyways
2020-01-15T22:49:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> Gentoo are just elitists that think they have to patch everything
2020-01-15T22:49:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I just use the patch to allow for -march=native and I change -O2 to -O3.
2020-01-15T22:49:58 #kisslinux <adamantium> That's the plan here too
2020-01-15T22:50:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3511/4009]
2020-01-15T22:50:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Man this is slow
2020-01-15T22:50:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> in kiss is it even possible to trigger the : "${grep:=grep}" thing? that feels like it's gotta be a dead codepath
2020-01-15T22:50:46 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, it really slows down after 3000 and never speeds up
2020-01-15T22:50:58 #kisslinux <merakor> You are probably on WebCore right now
2020-01-15T22:51:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A bad 'command -v' could E5ten
2020-01-15T22:51:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> One that doesn't set the error code correctly.
2020-01-15T22:52:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a guard against the absolute worst case where kiss *could* run with no valid grep.
2020-01-15T22:52:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> imo the correct response to "this shell builtin isn't working correctly according to POSIX" is fix the shell not accomodate it in the script
2020-01-15T22:52:44 #kisslinux <dzove855> actually you could hash it
2020-01-15T22:52:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> busybox command is fine
2020-01-15T22:53:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> I didn't say busybox's command was broken, I meant any hypothetical shell where command is broken and therefore leaving $grep empty by the time the : call is reached
2020-01-15T22:53:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-01-15T22:55:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> also I don't think command -v ever outputs to stderr (and if it does something is wrong) so redirection shouldn't be necessary
2020-01-15T22:56:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You're right
2020-01-15T22:57:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fixed
2020-01-15T22:57:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> question Support for P6_NOPs on Intel chips (X86_P6_NOP) [N/y/?] (NEW)
2020-01-15T22:58:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I picked y
2020-01-15T22:58:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> Should I turn this on? i'm using sandybridge and ivybridge cpus
2020-01-15T22:58:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (On Skylake)
2020-01-15T22:58:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Check the help for it
2020-01-15T22:58:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> i guess it only add support
2020-01-15T22:58:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> so is safe to say y
2020-01-15T22:59:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > P6_NOPs are a relatively minor optimization that require a family >=
2020-01-15T22:59:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> +6 processor
2020-01-15T22:59:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/
2020-01-15T22:59:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3702/4009]
2020-01-15T23:00:34 #kisslinux <merakor> I will be sleeping now, but I will check on tomorrow for WebKit. If any issues remain, we can do the builds on my own computer.
2020-01-15T23:00:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ciao
2020-01-15T23:00:53 #kisslinux <merakor> Bye
2020-01-15T23:02:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> since %b is POSIX, in log() you can replace the middle %s with %b%s%b, and then separate the "${2:+<literal escape stuff>}$1${2:+<literal escape stuff>}" with "${2:+<non-literal escape stuff>}" "$1" "${2:+<non-literal escape stuff>}"
2020-01-15T23:03:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Will do tomorrow
2020-01-15T23:03:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks
2020-01-15T23:06:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> actually since the printf format sequence already does "033[m" after the %s the second "${2:+stuff}" isn't needed so you can just change the second %s to %b%s and the "${2:+stuff}$1${2:+stuff}" to "${2:+stuff}" "$1"
2020-01-15T23:12:39 #kisslinux <E5ten> not that you'd use it anyway cuz the arguments aren't options, but in args() it says "POSIX 'sh' has no getopts" but it totally does ;)
2020-01-15T23:17:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [4000/4009]
2020-01-15T23:17:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :^)
2020-01-15T23:18:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> webkit2gtk Successfully created tar-ball
2020-01-15T23:31:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> holy shit no wonder you added the GNU grep thing
2020-01-15T23:31:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> busybox grep is ridiculously slow
2020-01-15T23:31:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> like wow
2020-01-15T23:31:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yup
2020-01-15T23:32:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> doing something that took toybox grep 0.491 seconds took busybox grep 6.265
2020-01-15T23:32:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> gnu grep is also really fast
2020-01-15T23:36:03 #kisslinux <E5ten> me when I'm building GNU grep for no reason other than to hopefully see that it's slower than toybox grep
2020-01-15T23:36:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> I appreciate gnu stuff and use it as necessary. Nice touch adding it.
2020-01-15T23:36:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2010-August/019310.html
2020-01-15T23:36:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> All of our gnu utils are static compiled and g prefixed. Staying out of the way of base but handy when available :)))
2020-01-15T23:36:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> dammit GNU grep is faster
2020-01-15T23:36:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Look at my link :P
2020-01-15T23:37:21 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm looking now
2020-01-15T23:38:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> also could you send examples of each of the files that would be used for each of the grep usages in kiss?
2020-01-15T23:39:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Here's a manifest: https://termbin.com/gfp0r
2020-01-15T23:40:13 #kisslinux <Aarg> GNU can be hard to beat sometimes
2020-01-15T23:40:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Manifests are in /var/db/kiss/installed/*/manifest
2020-01-15T23:40:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> thanks
2020-01-15T23:40:29 #kisslinux <Aarg> There was an article about their `yes` a while ago
2020-01-15T23:40:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> kiss uses grep to look for matches in every manifest
2020-01-15T23:40:34 #kisslinux <Aarg> pretty interesting too
2020-01-15T23:40:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Aarg: The large buffers right?
2020-01-15T23:40:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> even if it's fast, I still think GNU grep is the single dumbest piece of software ever created
2020-01-15T23:40:59 #kisslinux <Aarg> something like that, yeah
2020-01-15T23:41:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GNU grep isn't the original grep
2020-01-15T23:41:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> so?
2020-01-15T23:41:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Why is GNU grep dumb?
2020-01-15T23:42:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> omg literaally just filled up my hard drive to capacity
2020-01-15T23:42:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> this is why I can't have nice things
2020-01-15T23:42:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I need to benchmark grep with '--mmap' too
2020-01-15T23:42:21 #kisslinux <E5ten> it's the dumbest piece of software ever created because they implemented a flag, -P, to make grep but with perl regex, to use this -P flag, one has to compile GNU grep with it linking to pcre. pcre comes with a command known as pcregrep, which shockingly, is grep with perl regex
2020-01-15T23:42:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's amazing
2020-01-15T23:42:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium:
2020-01-15T23:42:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss l webkit2gtk
2020-01-15T23:42:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkit2gtk 2.26.2 1
2020-01-15T23:43:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will have this up tomorrow.
2020-01-15T23:43:39 #kisslinux <adamantium> I want it tonight
2020-01-15T23:43:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> Where can I find the build files that i need
2020-01-15T23:43:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> thanks dylanaraps
2020-01-15T23:44:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> :P
2020-01-15T23:44:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oops
2020-01-15T23:44:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mine has no HTTPS support
2020-01-15T23:44:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-15T23:45:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm missing glib-networking
2020-01-15T23:45:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> can you push your build somewhere so i can poke at it
2020-01-15T23:45:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hang on.
2020-01-15T23:45:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-15T23:45:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> thx
2020-01-15T23:45:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will put it in testing/
2020-01-15T23:45:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> k
2020-01-15T23:45:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me just add the missing de
2020-01-15T23:45:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dep*
2020-01-15T23:45:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ooo
2020-01-15T23:45:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I think it works at runtime
2020-01-15T23:49:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It works :D
2020-01-15T23:50:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: pushed to testing
2020-01-15T23:50:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/tree/master/testing