2020-11-10T01:49:49 #kisslinux so I'm sitting here fiddling with some software, and I've noticed that no matter what I try, some stuff just refuses to work. not build or whatever, it builds just fine. When you actually go to run the program though, it just... doesn't. 2020-11-10T01:49:49 #kisslinux so then I had a really stupid idea 2020-11-10T01:50:29 #kisslinux could you take another distro's known-good base, and then use kiss to manage all the software on the system? I can't see why not, even if it would be pretty janky 2020-11-10T02:01:58 #kisslinux i've been looking for something similar, been using bubblewrap as a "rootless" chroot solution, and would love a way create a kiss package that updates software in said chroot from my host 2020-11-10T02:03:04 #kisslinux *nod* 2020-11-10T02:03:18 #kisslinux ...although another thing I've been thinking about is using kiss on an LFS setup 2020-11-10T02:03:31 #kisslinux like, that's something I haven't been able to get out of my head. 2020-11-10T02:03:34 #kisslinux for weeks now. 2020-11-10T02:19:15 #kisslinux isn't your issue that you dont know how to debug runtime issues. how can LFS help you tehre? 2020-11-10T02:22:20 #kisslinux more likely compile time since following the exact same steps as on other distros results in working binaries. but the bit with LFS is just something I thought of on the spot. I wanted to use LFS before, but there was no real way for me to do so long-term without some kind of package manager, even if I set up all the packages myself 2020-11-10T02:22:29 #kisslinux what with cruft and conflicts and just bluh 2020-11-10T02:35:10 #kisslinux But why do LFS 2020-11-10T02:35:35 #kisslinux Like what would you do differently so that you end up with something that isn't just KISS with a 26 hour build time xD 2020-11-10T02:38:29 #kisslinux really, you could swap any distro in there 2020-11-10T02:38:51 #kisslinux I just figured kiss would fill the void of a package manager for LFS. 2020-11-10T02:43:24 #kisslinux I mean, yes 2020-11-10T02:44:00 #kisslinux But like, if you just did musl lfs with a few extra patches you'd end up roughly at where a KISS tarball is 2020-11-10T02:44:11 #kisslinux Just use bedrock :v 2020-11-10T02:44:25 #kisslinux Eh... 2020-11-10T02:44:42 #kisslinux Besides, if I was going to make such a system, it'd probably use glibc 2020-11-10T02:45:15 #kisslinux As excellent as using musl would be, a lot of the software I use won't compile against it 2020-11-10T03:03:57 #kisslinux okay yeah we're good now 2020-11-10T03:04:01 #kisslinux * midfavila facepalms 2020-11-10T05:41:13 #kisslinux what are some softwares that don't run om musl 2020-11-10T05:41:40 #kisslinux I'm deciding whether to use gkiss 2020-11-10T05:42:03 #kisslinux honestly you should try out regular KISS in a chroot before going gKISS 2020-11-10T05:42:15 #kisslinux and if you can't set up all your software that way then try gKISS 2020-11-10T05:46:11 #kisslinux Rio6 uses KISS already though 2020-11-10T05:46:20 #kisslinux If I'm not mistaken 2020-11-10T05:47:02 #kisslinux yeah I have a running kiss on my drive 2020-11-10T05:47:08 #kisslinux not quite my main os 2020-11-10T05:47:19 #kisslinux still need to setup bunch of things 2020-11-10T05:47:36 #kisslinux A glibc chroot is another option 2020-11-10T05:47:44 #kisslinux As is something like flatpak 2020-11-10T05:49:19 #kisslinux I'm not too familiar with flatpak, but doesn't it use extra space because every packages come with their own libraries 2020-11-10T05:49:37 #kisslinux Yes 2020-11-10T05:49:42 #kisslinux Lots of extra space 2020-11-10T05:49:50 #kisslinux You will also require pulseaudio 2020-11-10T05:49:54 #kisslinux And /maybe/ dbus 2020-11-10T05:50:06 #kisslinux :| 2020-11-10T05:50:10 #kisslinux Some libraries are still required on the host 2020-11-10T05:52:06 #kisslinux I wonder if I just replace musl with glib without rebuilding, what will break 2020-11-10T05:52:17 #kisslinux literally everything 2020-11-10T05:52:25 #kisslinux except busybox for some weird reason 2020-11-10T05:52:35 #kisslinux since they should have the same symbol name for functions no? 2020-11-10T05:52:45 #kisslinux or do they not 2020-11-10T05:53:18 #kisslinux I wouldn't know the low level details, but since I messed around with KISS when I was on CRUX, you definitely can't run stuff linked against musl on a glibc system 2020-11-10T05:53:25 #kisslinux and vice versa 2020-11-10T05:55:40 #kisslinux static link glibc might be another option, tho not sure if it'll be the same effort as patching packages to use musl 2020-11-10T05:56:06 #kisslinux I dond even know what packhes actually require glibc XD 2020-11-10T05:56:16 #kisslinux *packages 2020-11-10T05:56:29 #kisslinux in the official repos? none 2020-11-10T05:56:55 #kisslinux I'll find out if when I actually need it, I guess 2020-11-10T05:57:04 #kisslinux * midfavila nods 2020-11-10T05:57:37 #kisslinux for now I'm just gonna set up daemonless mdev 2020-11-10T11:19:50 #kisslinux hi 2020-11-10T11:21:25 #kisslinux o/ 2020-11-10T11:25:14 #kisslinux first of all thanks for the kiss linux project. it's a very fascinating system. i've been trying to build xorg(which also fetches llvm) but it's been taking hours on my old and crappy laptop. i saw a tool called kiss-bin so i was wondering if there were any active binary repos that included xorg. or alternatively how would i proceed with compiling 2020-11-10T11:25:14 #kisslinux these stuff on my desktop and then move them to the laptop? Thanks. 2020-11-10T11:32:17 #kisslinux kisslinuxnoob: I haven't tried this myself, but if you have kiss on your desktop as well, you could try copying the built tarballs from ~/.cache/kiss/bin on your desktop to your laptop and run the commands to install them on the laptop. 2020-11-10T12:16:50 #kisslinux thank you! I currently don't have a kisslinux installation on my desktop but i'll setup a quick chroot to give it a try. 2020-11-10T14:43:30 #kisslinux Hi 2020-11-10T14:50:55 #kisslinux o/ 2020-11-10T14:55:59 #kisslinux How're you ? :) 2020-11-10T16:27:15 #kisslinux @testuser.:matrix.org: just fine. having some fun improving xwm. it’s been an interesting learning curve. you? 2020-11-10T17:26:53 #kisslinux [mcpcpc](https://matrix.to/#/@mcpcpc:matrix.org): nothing much, was just adding some basic instructions to the gkiss README 2020-11-10T17:29:25 #kisslinux [06:51:56] except busybox for some weird reason 2020-11-10T17:29:34 #kisslinux supposedly busybox is statically linked 2020-11-10T17:30:13 #kisslinux you know, I've never actually looked into the details of static linking 2020-11-10T17:30:19 #kisslinux I think I'll do that today 2020-11-10T17:31:17 #kisslinux it's one of the major reasons to love musl 2020-11-10T17:31:36 #kisslinux because your hello world ends up being like 6 KB instead of 500KB with glibc 2020-11-10T17:32:23 #kisslinux and a reasonably complex project with ~1000 LOC about 50KBish 2020-11-10T17:32:26 #kisslinux musl is especially great for embedded appliances and for rescue disks 2020-11-10T17:32:43 #kisslinux kek 2020-11-10T17:32:43 #kisslinux Yeah, there was a pretty significant size difference under musl. Honestly, once I learn enough programming to replace the few programs that refuse to compile against it, I'll probably switch 2020-11-10T17:33:03 #kisslinux there shouldnt be that many nowadays 2020-11-10T17:33:15 #kisslinux which ones are you running into that don't? 2020-11-10T17:33:23 #kisslinux i started filing upstream bug reports to fix issues in 2011, alpine around 2014 2020-11-10T17:33:46 #kisslinux Galculator, SpaceFM, and UXP browsers are finnicky about musl 2020-11-10T17:33:47 #kisslinux as of 2020, 99% of projects should be fixed already 2020-11-10T17:33:52 #kisslinux haven't run into any others 2020-11-10T17:34:26 #kisslinux ...oh, pidgin was finnicky, too 2020-11-10T17:34:26 #kisslinux huh, galculator builds fine on my sabotage linux 2020-11-10T17:34:36 #kisslinux Hmm. 2020-11-10T17:34:38 #kisslinux you happen to have the error for spacefm on hand? (I don't have gtk so I'm not gonna try to build it myself) 2020-11-10T17:34:48 #kisslinux Nah, I don't, sorry 2020-11-10T17:34:52 #kisslinux It's been a while 2020-11-10T17:34:54 #kisslinux as for UXP/palemoon, check out the reciple/patches in sabotage 2020-11-10T17:35:00 #kisslinux *nod* 2020-11-10T17:35:21 #kisslinux (honestly if I wasn't such a stickler about GTK2 then this wouldn't be a problem, but I am...) 2020-11-10T17:35:26 #kisslinux well if you end up trying to build it again and it still doesn't work, feel free to mention me with the error and I'll try to look 2020-11-10T17:35:40 #kisslinux Cool, thanks 2020-11-10T17:35:56 #kisslinux I'll try again with building my usual setup against musl today 2020-11-10T17:36:06 #kisslinux it'll be something to do while I sit in class 2020-11-10T17:36:11 #kisslinux my palemoon recipe uses gtk+2 too 2020-11-10T17:36:17 #kisslinux based 2020-11-10T17:38:24 #kisslinux i'm still running musl 1.1.x as 1.2.x has some major changes that i knew would cause issues for early adopters.. 2020-11-10T17:38:59 #kisslinux and i prefered others to play guinea pigs and do the hard work of fixing upstream packages :) 2020-11-10T17:39:55 #kisslinux just looked at the spacefm source lol, this shouldn't be an issue for musl, but yikes it uses the *64 LFS functions instead of just defining _FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 and using the normal ones 2020-11-10T17:40:32 #kisslinux it does define _FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64, it just also defines the _LARGEFILE_SOURCE shit and uses stuff like stat64 and off64_t, even though the point of _FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 is that you use the normal funcs and they'll work with 64-bit 2020-11-10T17:41:48 #kisslinux so then the problem's what, unneded redundancy or whatever? 2020-11-10T17:43:22 #kisslinux https://wiki.musl-libc.org/faq.html there's an entry about the *64 nonsense 2020-11-10T17:43:52 #kisslinux "only -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 should ever be used, anywhere, even on glibc." 2020-11-10T17:45:06 #kisslinux I grep'd through the source, seems the only LFS stuff it uses is off64_t and stat64, that should probably get changed lol