It has come to my attention gemini://gem.librehacker.com/gemlog/starlog/20240103-0.gmi that the Antenna exhibited outright pro-Palestinian censorship. Of course, this is not good and now I will know what the Antenna is.
I fully support the opinion expressed in Christopher Howard's article "Standing With Israel (publ. 2024-01-01)."
As I previously wrote on the Station, the Palestinians are Hamas, which is, in essence, a paramilitary expression of the will of the population of the Gaza Strip.
2 months ago · 👍 nikhotmsk2, m0xee
[1] gemini://gem.librehacker.com/gemlog/starlog/20240103-0.gmi
I would also genuinely like conservative opinions better represented in Geminispace. Apparently, I'm too progressive for the Right, but too conservative for the Left and I'd like to have more diversity opinion-wise.
However what I do not want is for it to turn into mutual name-calling and the usual Left vs. Right bash as it has happened in more mainstream media. This balance is really delicate IMO. So far Gemini fares well, but in part due to people mostly refraining from discussing politics. · 2 months ago
I'm with you on this one, but I take a more reserved stance: I don't think that population of the Gaza Strip equals Hamas, but they are complicit. Of course I don't want them just killed, but… no one really knows how to resolve this. I don't think that most Israelis want to wipe them out either, but they also don't want to be showered with missiles and they definitely want another massacre.
And I don't buy the "I stand with Palestine" — I don't even understand what that means, who exactly is that Palestine? If it means the dissolution of Israel — then no, I do not want that! · 2 months ago
But the fact is that neighboring (and distant) Arab countries do not need Israel at all, since, in their opinion, it is located on the territory of their holy places. And the Palestinians for them are just an instrument of pressure on Israel. So, inherently Muslim-Israeli, the conflict is never ending. · 2 months ago
Okay! To save your nerves, I will read pages 9-17. I've already read this
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/12/1224363666/israel-hamas-war-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-case-court
and didn’t find anything particularly original there, what else nor was sent to Israel. But I still don't understand what can be discussed here, because the problem has not been solved for many years. Half measures are meaningless.
This domestic problem could be solved by relocating a weaker but pugnacious Palestinian neighbor, who has money from time to time to go wild, somewhere in the USA (God forbid!). · 2 months ago
@corscada Well, I wouldn't blame everything on the USA. Moreover, then many countries picked up this game and creatively developed it. · 2 months ago
I'm torn whether to like your shining criterion or not. I don't believe it to be a good replacement for current international law but since the USA is responsible for so much destruction abroad with supply of arms, coups and funding of terrorist groups like ISIS it would mean their dismantlement. · 2 months ago
@astraseneca come on! i'd understand if it was 84 pages of legaleese but it's written in easy to understand language and a lot is citations you can ignore if you are skimming it. you can also just read pages 9-17 if you just want to talk about Gaza.
it's possibly the most important document for the future of the Israeli state and definitely the most important document of the current ICJ case, refusal to read it means we're not even having the same conversation here. · 2 months ago
Next, something about the Palestinians themselves before Hamas:
In the early years of the second intifada (2000-2005), many Palestinians welcomed these terrorist attacks, seeing them as revenge for their losses and for the continued construction of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, which Palestinians regard as their territory.
And what are we witnessing these days?
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/01/09/world/israeli-army-weapons-factory-gaza/
Learn more:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/daily-briefing-jan-9-day-95-toi-visits-central-gazas-massive-hamas-rocket-factory/
What a scope of activity! They spent so much energy and Qatar's money and all for what? · 2 months ago
That document obfuscates the real motivations of the Israelis as to why certain restrictions were imposed on Palestinians that have only gotten tighter over the years.
Yes, one needs to understand something in depth about their joint history to make it clear why (further, I translated from here https://www.bbc.com/russian/articles/cx8r3dqw3j4o):
In 2006-2007, Egypt and Israel jointly organized a blockade of the Gaza Strip, which led to a mass exodus of Palestinians. It is believed that more than a million of its residents left Gaza during this period. · 2 months ago
@corscada, sorry, I don't have much energy or desire to really read into that 84-page statement, as I have already stated my shining criterion for assessing the viability and civility of other nations and states, depending on where their general vector of development is directed - to creation or to destruction (with or without sponsors' money).
If you believe (why not?) even a tenth of what is written there, then the parties there have been in a rather tough confrontation for a long time. And, that said, Hamas' rise to power certainly hasn't improved the situation for the Palestinians. · 2 months ago
the document also lists the genocidal acts, bear in mind these are just the sections and the document explains these and cites plenty of evidence.
1. Killing Palestinians in Gaza
2. Causing Serious Bodily and Mental Harm to Palestinians in Gaza
3. Mass expulsion from homes and displacement of Palestinians in Gaza
4. Deprivation of access to adequate food and water to Palestinians in Gaza
5. Deprivation of access to adequate shelter, clothes, hygiene and sanitation to Palestinians in Gaza
6. Deprivation of adequate medical assistance to Palestinians in Gaza
7. Destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza
8. Imposing measures intended to prevent Palestinian births · 2 months ago
The health-care system in Gaza is flat on its back, with serious shortages of health-care professionals, inadequate treatment equipment and low supplies of drugs and medicines.
Palestinians in Gaza can rarely travel outside of Gaza, which is a denial of their fundamental right to freedom of movement.
More acutely, they have endured four highly asymmetrical wars with Israel over the past 13 years, with enormous loss of civilian life and immense property destruction. The suffering was acknowledged by Antonio Guterres in May 2021, when he stated: “If there is a hell on earth, it is the lives of children in Gaza". · 2 months ago
The coastal aquifer, the sole source of natural drinking water in Gaza, has become polluted and unfit for human consumption because of contamination by seawater and sewage, substantially driving up water costs for an already destitute population. Gaza is heavily dependent on external sources — Israel and Egypt — for power, and Palestinians live with rolling power blackouts of between 12 and 20 hours daily, severely impairing daily living and the economy. The entry and>export of goods is strictly controlled by Israel, which has throttled the local economy. · 2 months ago
Ban Ki-moon has called this political quarantining of the population a “collective punishment”, which is a serious breach of international law.
The World Bank reported in 2021 that Gaza had undergone a multi-decade process of dedevelopment and deindustrialization, resulting in a 45 per cent unemployment rate and a 60 per cent poverty rate, with 80 per cent of the population dependent on some form of international assistance, in significant part because of the hermetic sealing of the access of Gaza to the outside world. · 2 months ago
@astraseneca since you didn't know about the border issue in Gaza I'm going to include an exert from the ICJ case by SA against Israel. its from paragraph 26 in the background section. the full text is worth a read and can be found here:
https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf ICJ Case 192
In Gaza, the apparent strategy of Israel is the indefinite warehousing of an unwanted population of 2 million Palestinians, whom it has confined to a narrow strip of land through its comprehensive 15-year-old air, land and sea blockade (with further restrictions by Egypt on the southern border of Gaza). · 2 months ago
@astraseneca the west bank is territory occupied by Israel in the east of Israel.
I said histrionic Palestine(Gaza and the occupied territories of Israel and the west bank) is not a desert, it's geography is very diverse. Israel has managed to get all the best bits of land and banished 2.3 million Palestinians into the desert area of Gaza.
Radio presenters have no requirement to be knowledgeable about world issues. I wouldn't trust most of the radio presenters in my country to be knowledgeable about most local issues never mind about 75 year old middle eastern problems. · 2 months ago
so no I don't think a random dude with a mic was right when he said killing and stealing was good because USA good.
No, that was a full-time radio reporter. I didn't convey his words verbatim, but I conveyed the general meaning exceptionally accurately. I think that's the position of a largely conservative part of the US.
Those "killing and stealing" (which I do not approve of), that over time could be converted for the benefit of subsequent generations (including those previously subjected to oppression) are the basis of the well-being of this world. Please take off your white gloves. There are no saints in this frail world. · 2 months ago
people from Gaza are not allowed to leave Gaza.
I didn't know about this oddity, but on the other hand, where did all those crowds of people of distinctly Arab appearance chanting in the squares of European capitals in support of Palestine come from?
At the very least, Africans, for example, are not much prevented from rushing across the Mediterranean Sea and reaching friendlier shores. · 2 months ago
not sure why you think a government that's not your own having control over essential services like water and electricity is a good thing.
Ah, that... Thus, I just wanted to quickly demonstrate the constructive vector of development of the showcase-outpost of the Western way of life in the person of the state of Israel. And accordingly, mismanagement and the general destructiveness of the mentality of the residents of the Gaza Strip. · 2 months ago
The Gaza Strip has a desert-dry climate... Natural resources include irrigated land and recently discovered natural gas deposits. Environmental problems include aridization, salinization of drinking water, and soil degradation. The Gaza Strip is almost entirely dependent on water from Wadi Gaza, which is also a resource base for Israel.
...For all its communications, the Gaza Strip is dependent on the infrastructure that Israel has put in place to communicate with its settlements. · 2 months ago
@corscada Sorry, I can't keep up with your train of thought.
I would suggest focusing only on the Gaza Strip for now. You are forcing me to become an expert on Middle East issues.
Since I usually search in Russian, the first sites provide complete and clear information (unlike a request in English) on the issue, for example:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/География_Палестины · 2 months ago
@astraseneca when a country has been at war for 227 out of 245 years, a shocking 92% since 1776, I think it's fair to guess that the world would be more peaceful had the colonisation failed.
the USA is a case study for poor land management. it went from responsible stewards of the land to a country that eradicated a whole species just to give a fuck you to the people it was genociding. now they have low density sprawling concrete suburbs, pipeline projects that are decimating natural habitats and all sort of soil problems from industrial agriculture.
so no I don't think a random dude with a mic was right when he said killing and stealing was good because USA good. · 2 months ago
@astroseneca OK we've veered very hard into dumb takes here, let's break it down.
historic Palestine is not a desert, there is water and agriculture.
not sure why you think a government that's not your own having control over essential services like water and electricity is a good thing. most countries would go to war if another state took over their infrastructure.
people from Gaza are not allowed to leave Gaza. people in the west bank are allowed to work in Israel, however they have to endure awful conditions which have caused deaths, every time they go through checkpoints that Israelis don't have to go through. · 2 months ago
@dimkr, I have read your vision of this problem, and if I have more free time, I will try to somehow respond to your article in more detail.
By the way, I am very sorry that some of your wife's relatives, as well as other innocent people, suffered so cruelly from Hamas. · 2 months ago
@dimkr thank you. · 2 months ago
@astroseneca I shared some opinions at gemini://gemini.dimakrasner.com/the-conflict.gmi and submitted to Antenna because I believe we need more "everybody is right, shut up and let's fix this" opinions to have peace in this region · 2 months ago
Not too long ago, while listening to the VoA radio station, I noticed an interesting phrase uttered by the announcer, saying that, yes, we treated the American Indians poorly, but would they themselves be able to ensure such powerful development and quality management of this land?
I, who had previously been entirely on the side of the long-suffering natives of America, thought that perhaps that announcer was not so wrong. · 2 months ago
Israel (essentially a desert) provided Palestinian autonomy, if I understood it correctly, with free electricity and (desalinated!) water, issued work permits in Israel, and for this on October 7 (and there were excesses before) received the peak of such "gratitude", which will make anyone upset, not just Amichay Eliyahu. · 2 months ago
@corscada, on the contrary, I consider my mindset to be comfortably pro-Western (i.e., without any special kinks). It seems like I don’t deny anyone their innate rights, just don’t deprive me of the right to self-defense.
The devil lies in the details of the realization of these innate rights in the course of life. At the expense of whom or what country's social security system is the individual going to flourish in his innate rights? · 2 months ago
@minecalftree I meant effeminate. Being naff was part of the joke. · 2 months ago
@gyaradong rethink the homophobic remark? · 2 months ago
@astraseneca not sure what the statement about equality has to do with liberalism considering that the idea of equality of all people has been a core tenet of what qualifies as morally good in the west from at least Christ to Kant to post modernist moral frameworks.
again I'm not liberal and I would consider my mindset anti-western or at least against it's hegemony. this is from after my time in education so I don't think the point about American universities (that I didn't attend) is relevant to the discussion about what's happening on the ground in Gaza. · 2 months ago
@astraseneca if universal rights can be removed whenever it suits you then they aren't universal. if your name is a reference to Seneca then I believe even back in the ancient era he said that what he called rights can not be removed.
you can also act in self defence without violating human rights or international law, but when you do it stops looking like self-defence.
the most recent inexcusable quote I've seen by Israeli government ministers is this:
Israel should find ways more painful than death for the Palestinians - Amichay Eliyahu, minister of heritage · 2 months ago
ethnostates are for Nancy boys. · 2 months ago
@corscada,
if you don't believe that all people should be equal or...
After that, you’re not going to call yourself an uncompromising liberal?
I made a reference to what is happening in an American (or Western European) university, assuming that your upbringing or the upbringing of at least 5-6 other participants in this thread in such an “original” educational system could lead to “fundamental disagreement” with me. After all, I definitely didn’t get my training there. Family upbringing + school/university + media adjusted to the (super) tolerant mood of the mind and voila, what is called a person of the Western mindset is made. · 2 months ago
if you don't believe that all people should be equal or are equally deserving of human rights...
Well... If I am in such an extreme life situation, when I clearly see that some person is making preparations to kill or harm the physical or mental health of me, my loved ones, etc.. then, I'm afraid, will have to put aside the Universal Declaration of Human Rights for a while (it’s a pity, it’s not very weighty - very little space is devoted to responsibilities) and deal with the pressing problem in a more radical way.
The life of an obvious maniac or the life of an ordinary peaceful person? I'm afraid you and I do have a fundamental disagreement. · 2 months ago
@astroseneca in terms of the antisemitism, I'm not sure if that count is from this thread, Gemini in general or experiences in the real world. 5-6 people though is a very small sample size to paint 2 of biggest political ideologies in the world. I have seen way more antisemitism from the extreme right. BTW I am only considering hatred directed at Jewish people or religion as per the definition and not criticism of state or ideology, which matches the views of prominent Jewish scholars. · 2 months ago
@astroseneca I am not American, I am not governed by the American version of free speech laws, nor do I agree with them.
Neither am I a liberal or care for what goes on in American universities as it changes nothing in terms of the situation on the ground in Gaza.
I will leave this thread here as it mostly matches my view of the Gay story: https://nitter.unixfox.eu/thrasherxy/status/1742266230050869269?2bd875c37d18881ba338a3846bb07010=2bd875c37d18881ba338a3846bb07010 · 2 months ago
@astroseneca since this seems to be a reasonable discussion so far I'll concede that the propaganda and valuing human life points we're cheap shots. everyone is susceptible to propaganda that's why it exists, however wherever propaganda or life experiences have led you to your current view that some life is worth more than other life is what I find rather poor morally on your part. if you don't believe that all people should be equal or are equally deserving of human rights then we have a fundamental disagreement here that will never be resolved. · 2 months ago
Well, I don’t know how to describe this shame with “micromanagement” in an explosive combination with a reference to "the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects “even deeply hateful speech”" within the walls of educational institutions. Think for yourself. And if you’re not tired of translated articles, read also this:
http://www.kasparov.ru/material.php?id=6597A6949BECC · 2 months ago
@corscada, thanks for your arguments. I hardly read Western media (many of them, indeed, work to order).
So, at the moment, I have been discovered to have a penchant for propaganda and a disregard for human life (okay, maybe Maria Teresa’s laurels won’t threaten me just yet).
Also, for my part, I have so far counted 6-7 more or less polite anti-Semites and/or ultra-left liberals, and for some reason these two phenomena go well together. As an example, I will give this article:
https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/what-led-to-the-resignation-of-an-ivy-league-president-/7397147.html · 2 months ago
@astroseneca
"In Palestine, the median age of the population was 19.6 years in 2023, meaning that almost half of the total population is comprised of children." - statista.com
you should be asking why it's so low (19th lowest out of 227 according to the cia) when they had a better health service than all the countries near them on the list.
western governments lied about Syria.
western governments lied about Iraq.
western governments lied about Afghanistan.
i don't think they've started telling the truth now.
the USA being pro Israel almost guarantees another 10 years in the middle east if a regional war kicks off. only the arms dealers and energy companies win. · 2 months ago
@astroseneca the idea that you have to obliterate a country of 2mil to ensure your countries survival is strange to me. considering that Palestine has no official army and Israel has the backing of the USA(so much monetary support that after all the military spending, they can afford universal healthcare, education and welfare that would make Americans weep with jealously or angry at funding socialism), Palestine does not look like a Goliath/existential threat here. · 2 months ago
@minecalftree it's obviously impossible. after all, they have the correct opinion, and have no interest in incorrect opinions, which is anything they don't believe in, by definition. · 2 months ago
I also disagree with you, but I do not believe I have the rhetorical prowess to convince you that your position is uninformed and harmful · 2 months ago
Posted 9 hours ago
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That's what we in the industry call an unpopular opinion! · 2 months ago
"There is a right opinion, there is a wrong opinion. I don't care about wrong opinions."
As the founder of the "being right" movement, I am always correct- otherwise, why would it be called the "being right" movement? · 2 months ago
@dimkr, what exactly do you have to say on the topic?
@lykso, I would be interested in your arguments. · 2 months ago
I disagree strongly with your opinion, but I do not fancy myself up to the task of disabusing you of it. I only say so in order to not let my silence be mistaken for approval. · 2 months ago
From my experience (and I live in Israel), many people with an opinion in these matters are super hard to convince because they don't want to be convinced otherwise and dismiss (using a narrative they describe as "facts", logic or the "you have a long history of lies and deception and you can't convince me otherwise" trick) any evidence or opinion that's incompatible with what they think. I'm 100% for intelligent conversation that respects all opinions, but it gets messy very quickly in a space without moderation, because those with extreme views tend to be noisy and stubborn enough to ruin the opportunity to discuss and learn for everyone else. · 2 months ago
I have heard that ultra-left liberals do not like such a thing as a state, much less the state of Israel.
And I like to morally support countries that know how to defend themselves (except Russia, Iran, North Korea and China), even in a hostile environment, and set an example of constructive development in various spheres of their life. · 2 months ago
@corscada, Okay, you won the competition according to formal logic, although I did not include Palestinian babies and demented old people in Hamas, but the rest of the population of Gaza for about 20 years, to a greater or lesser extent, consciously ensured the functioning of Hamas's military infrastructure, carefully built into the civilian one, then liked under videos of terrorist attacks after October 7, and so on. Hamas itself relied heavily on fighting in urban conditions, which means that collateral losses among the population of Gaza are inevitable for Israel, but there is no other choice, of course, if you are interested in the survival of the state of Israel. · 2 months ago
14% estimate is from here:
https://nitter.unixfox.eu/hragv/status/1714087645758755175?75bb5e85ab3c87e0e64f593386fb23e2=75bb5e85ab3c87e0e64f593386fb23e2
your links don't really prove all Palestinians = Hamas. if even one Palestinian is against Hamas then your preposition is incorrect and considering the average age of those killed by the IDF is 5 it doesn't look that great.
never mind the fact that Israel is detaining and killing those in the west bank where Hamas doesn't exist. they are also killing civilians in Iran and Lebanon who aren't even Palestinian. so the whole Hamas is the enemy argument is pretty weak. · 2 months ago
@corscada, I don’t know where you got the 14% of the population of Gaza who voted for Hamas back in 2006...
So be it, I just long ago lost that impulse when I was ready, based on the collected articles and videos, to rush to prove that its motley population = Hamas.
Although, if you can use online translation, you can read, for example,
gemini://tilde.team/~rami/war_shabash.gmi
or
gemini://tilde.team/~rami/war_ahmed.gmi
or
https://haqqin. az/news/298042 · 2 months ago
complaintsdept, I don't understand. As a form of self-censorship, do you propose to talk only about cats and computer-related topics? But what about other spheres of life of society and the state? Collective opinion? Why do I need to know the (possibly incorrect) collective opinion? There is a right opinion, there is a wrong opinion. I don't care about wrong opinions. So, I just wanted to support a person whose opinion not only turns out to be blatantly correct, but also coincides with mine. · 2 months ago
the Palestinians are Hamas
way to tell everyone you're susceptible to propaganda, and don't value human life enough to not call for genocide.
from your own words:
I despise Trump and the 30% of Americans who voted for him.
an estimated 14% of the current population of Gaza voted for Hamas in 2006, nearly 2 decades ago. based on those two stats it would make more sense to collectively punish the entire USA's population for any crimes committed by their government. · 2 months ago
Of course, if the pink ponies want to save the “suffering/peace-loving population of Gaza,” let them settle them on their university campus (fortunately, there are not many of them, only about 2 million), but then the consequences of such a decision will fall exclusively on the shoulders of the pink ponies. What was a revelation for me was to learn at one time that even neighboring Arab countries do not want to settle on their territory generations of “peaceful Palestinians” who grew up on hatred and, most importantly, are not very accustomed to peaceful activities. · 2 months ago