[2022-08-19T01:22:24Z] its in the main repositories right? [2022-08-19T01:22:28Z] for me its in kiss-xorg and grepo [2022-08-19T01:26:13Z] is there a openbsd kiss edition? [2022-08-19T01:59:59Z] i believe someone has tried it with bsd [2022-08-19T02:00:04Z] not sure which one of the bsds [2022-08-19T02:00:11Z] but i believe the openbsd package manager is sufficient [2022-08-19T02:49:50Z] rohan: gdk-pixbuf is in repo/extra [2022-08-19T02:50:36Z] virutalmachineus: as stated before, a BSD KISS has been tried several times, but they all ended unsuccessful (for a variety of reasons) [2022-08-19T02:52:46Z] I've been out of the loop for too long in this community and for that I apologize [2022-08-19T02:53:16Z] I can point the kisscommunity.org URL to phoebos' site I suppose; that begs the question of how we would want to maintain an ML [2022-08-19T02:53:34Z] I'd also love to just entirely drop github outside of *as a mirror* and do PRs strictly via format-patch/am... [2022-08-19T02:54:15Z] given dylan is gone for... who knows how long, I think we can take more liberties as a community. the Org has matured enough at this point (along with some fresh blood) that I think we can make something better and bigger of this [2022-08-19T02:54:40Z] i'd also like to see the server I'm paying for be used more...;) [2022-08-19T02:55:29Z] the what [2022-08-19T02:55:31Z] what is the server [2022-08-19T02:56:20Z] ah [2022-08-19T02:56:31Z] I have a linode server which previously hosted the community's mailing list [2022-08-19T02:56:39Z] it also hosts the git and fossil mirrors for the community repository [2022-08-19T02:56:47Z] https://git.kisscommunity.org/ [2022-08-19T02:56:59Z] (they haven't been updated in a while because I've been gone and I'm the only one with access) [2022-08-19T02:57:20Z] I really don't know how got servers like this would work [2022-08-19T02:57:31Z] I'm used to things such as PRs and issues being prominent [2022-08-19T02:57:34Z] https://dilyn.cc/blog/Server-Git [2022-08-19T02:57:34Z] sourcehut would be nice if it had orgs. that would also handle the mailing list [2022-08-19T02:57:36Z] :) [2022-08-19T02:57:45Z] how would someone even upload a package [2022-08-19T02:57:49Z] patches are pretty easy; you make a commit and do a git format-patch [2022-08-19T02:58:04Z] you can use git send-mail as well, and maintainers would use git am to apply the patch [2022-08-19T02:58:17Z] hmm interesting [2022-08-19T02:58:40Z] yeah [2022-08-19T02:58:42Z] well the only way you can get most kiss users to go to it is to mirror the current kiss community repo [2022-08-19T02:59:04Z] basically github is gross; we have to rebase/squash every PR because github injects gross merge commits for every PR if you don't do a rebase :| [2022-08-19T02:59:06Z] git am avoids that [2022-08-19T02:59:30Z] afaik even when I was maintaining kiss fewer than ten people were using this mirror of community or the mirror of the main repo [2022-08-19T02:59:41Z] well it's last update was in 5-31 [2022-08-19T02:59:43Z] that's pretty old [2022-08-19T03:01:03Z] that's about in line with the time I stopped maintaining community and ioraff stepped in:) [2022-08-19T03:01:09Z] but they don't have access to the server [2022-08-19T03:01:53Z] how does someone gain permission to commit [2022-08-19T03:02:33Z] currently we don't have any rules or infra for that [2022-08-19T03:02:40Z] I never implemented it, though it was on the roadmap [2022-08-19T03:02:51Z] then dylan returned and I swiftly abandoned my post... and now here we are [2022-08-19T03:03:18Z] well since Dylan uses github why can't we stay at thay [2022-08-19T03:03:23Z] s/that/that [2022-08-19T03:03:34Z] that was the argument I made before [2022-08-19T03:03:48Z] but given the volatility of dylan's presence, I think that now gives us license to do whatever we want [2022-08-19T03:04:10Z] the overwhelming support last time was to completely abandon github (shithub, as they called it...) in favor of a self-hosted thing [2022-08-19T03:04:42Z] I'd favor simply not supporting GitHub PRs and only supporting ML patches this time around [2022-08-19T03:05:00Z] why not something like codeberg? Its similar to how github functions [2022-08-19T03:05:48Z] i liken codeberg to gitlab [2022-08-19T03:05:50Z] in that I don't like that [2022-08-19T03:05:51Z] them* [2022-08-19T03:06:16Z] why not [2022-08-19T03:06:25Z] well, codeberg has always been slow for me [2022-08-19T03:06:46Z] neither are as intuitive or as simple as I would like (I hate navigating freedesktop projects, for instance) [2022-08-19T03:06:56Z] this is a personal disdain, but this is my position [2022-08-19T03:08:23Z] hmm [2022-08-19T03:08:44Z] well switching to old style git is gonna take time to get used to [2022-08-19T03:14:51Z] maybe, but I think a large contingent of users have refused to contribute because the primary/only way has almost entirely been through github [2022-08-19T03:15:04Z] dilyn: you can merge PRs in cli to avoid merge commits. it works without rebasing if PR branch isn't diverged from master(i.e fast-forward merge) [2022-08-19T03:16:05Z] that's true [2022-08-19T03:16:18Z] but nobody is doing that and git am is easier far easier for our use-case [2022-08-19T03:16:47Z] I have only contributed via github and world-write suckless repositories [2022-08-19T03:17:14Z] ah yes those... [2022-08-19T03:17:16Z] hm [2022-08-19T03:17:27Z] I suppose I would need ioraff: phoebos: and others to chime in [2022-08-19T03:18:02Z] since KISS is so small I believe that world read write repositories could work [2022-08-19T03:20:46Z] yeah. at this point I am far more interested in community feedback than I was before. [2022-08-19T03:21:10Z] Before I wanted to maintain continuity in the hopes that it wouldn't be too jarring when Dylan returned. But now, I'm not in charge. and I think we can have far more liberty in our direction this time around [2022-08-19T03:21:22Z] essentially we've become a steering committee [2022-08-19T03:21:46Z] what would the kiss community do once Dylan returns? [2022-08-19T03:21:52Z] I'm in favor of ML-only development. it'd disentangle the distro from any particular hosting platform [2022-08-19T03:22:15Z] what is ML-only? [2022-08-19T03:22:21Z] mailing-list-only [2022-08-19T03:22:34Z] I think at this point we should accept that our direction for the main repositories is incongruous to Dylan's work, and KISS-Community is now it's own thing with its own rules, obligations, and decisions [2022-08-19T03:22:36Z] ^ [2022-08-19T03:23:28Z] Constantly trying to emulate Dylan was a virtuous goal in the past but I think it's only going to limit us -- ideally, I think, KISS-Community will follow the general intention of the community. at least broadly speaking [2022-08-19T03:24:02Z] ofc, given that the maintainers are opinionated, the Org will be opinionated, and I think ML-only is an excellent example of that stance [2022-08-19T03:24:14Z] I have no idea how a mailing list works tbh, it feels a bit old [2022-08-19T03:24:24Z] it's certainly old, but it's tried and true [2022-08-19T03:24:29Z] and well-supported and established [2022-08-19T03:24:37Z] our ML worked quite well after I worked out most of the kinks [2022-08-19T03:24:44Z] probably still a bug or two [2022-08-19T03:24:58Z] https://archive.kisscommunity.org/ [2022-08-19T03:25:03Z] this is how the ML worked if you'd like to see [2022-08-19T03:25:16Z] ahhh my eyes it burns [2022-08-19T03:25:53Z] why not have the sites in the same style as kiss in theming [2022-08-19T03:26:19Z] the kiss site changed theme about 87 times [2022-08-19T03:26:21Z] because I have opinions about design [2022-08-19T03:26:43Z] I kinda expected it to be dark like kisslinux.org [2022-08-19T03:26:52Z] that's dependent on your browser [2022-08-19T03:26:54Z] I didn't like the dark site (I don't like dark themes in general) [2022-08-19T03:27:02Z] tbf I don't like the new site either :v [2022-08-19T03:27:10Z] interesting.. [2022-08-19T03:27:27Z] well least that can be done is check browser dark theme preference [2022-08-19T03:28:33Z] i support adding some sort of CSS to make that an option or w/e [2022-08-19T03:28:36Z] while we're on the subject, the quote that used to be on the site, "a camel is a horse designed by a committee", is incredibly stupid [2022-08-19T03:29:13Z] I find that sentence hard to understand at first glance, what is it supposed to mean [2022-08-19T03:29:55Z] I think it's a brilliant idiom [2022-08-19T03:30:19Z] it's like too many cooks in the kitchen [2022-08-19T03:30:51Z] I still find it hard to understand [2022-08-19T03:31:04Z] a committee would never be able to decide on the design of a horse and you'd eventually end up with some horrific Cronenberg of a horse [2022-08-19T03:31:30Z] feature creep, design creep, overscoped... [2022-08-19T03:31:39Z] hm [2022-08-19T03:31:50Z] basically it's a quote that encourages a BDFL, someone who has veto authority [2022-08-19T03:34:20Z] I get what it's trying to say, but the analogy is just wrong. a horse is prettier, sure, but a camel is stronger and can survive in much harsher conditions. [2022-08-19T03:34:42Z] the point is that the committee tried to design a horse and arrived at a camel [2022-08-19T03:38:29Z] Ultimately I would move that we actually rigorously define the KISS-Community org, much like I wanted to do 20 months ago:) [2022-08-19T03:39:05Z] I would like some actual infrastructure and rules surrounding our org to make things easier. that way it isn't just me, or git-bruh, or ioraff, or whomever, reviewing and accepting PRs and making changes [2022-08-19T03:39:18Z] rules for who's in charge of what, who access to what, what needs review and what doesn't, bla bla bla [2022-08-19T03:40:45Z] why not have multiple people in charge [2022-08-19T03:40:52Z] that's the goal [2022-08-19T03:40:53Z] this is community after all so [2022-08-19T03:40:56Z] I don't want to be in charge lmfao [2022-08-19T03:41:07Z] bro you are literally a Dylan typo [2022-08-19T03:41:12Z] :P [2022-08-19T03:41:18Z] there was speculation that I was secretly dylan [2022-08-19T03:41:49Z] the British looking guy in your github profile is your right [2022-08-19T03:42:10Z] do I look british?! [2022-08-19T03:42:16Z] that's the nicest, meanest thing anyone has ever said about me [2022-08-19T03:42:38Z] you look like you operate for a British radio station who makes funny jokes [2022-08-19T03:43:10Z] man that would be the dream [2022-08-19T03:43:24Z] instead i'm just some bloke who lives on that strange border between new england and the midwest:'( [2022-08-19T03:43:34Z] so you are British haha [2022-08-19T03:43:46Z] if only [2022-08-19T03:43:47Z] pennsylvania? [2022-08-19T03:43:53Z] pittsburgh PA! [2022-08-19T03:43:56Z] you're a genius [2022-08-19T03:44:15Z] wowie [2022-08-19T03:44:29Z] I mean the only two options were PA and OH. or ontario I guess [2022-08-19T03:45:10Z] I'd like to visit pittsburgh sooner than later [2022-08-19T03:46:21Z] ohio is absolutely in the midwest [2022-08-19T03:46:31Z] I'll die on this hill [2022-08-19T03:46:44Z] pgh is chill. if you find yourself here lmk and we can get a drink:P [2022-08-19T03:46:50Z] i'm trapped here for a year or two yet [2022-08-19T03:47:23Z] fair enough. and will do [2022-08-19T03:48:28Z] kiss linux convention - at a random bar [2022-08-19T03:48:58Z] sounds about right [2022-08-19T03:49:51Z] goals [2022-08-19T03:50:19Z] ~~also holds 80% of the total kiss linux userbase~~ [2022-08-19T04:04:12Z] is kiss going to be for the niche user or there's going to be iso disks? [2022-08-19T04:04:34Z] there are isos available [2022-08-19T04:04:48Z] not officially however [2022-08-19T04:07:26Z] yeah i saw, i mean a full installer [2022-08-19T04:08:08Z] well in kiss I don't think you need an installer [2022-08-19T04:08:13Z] look at mkrootfs [2022-08-19T04:08:30Z] would be fun to try to make tho not sure how [2022-08-19T04:24:44Z] there was an initiative to create a KISS installer ISO a few years back from eudaldgr [2022-08-19T04:25:06Z] I tried to make a KISS-kde installer iso leveraging their project but I didn't quite have the time or energy for it [2022-08-19T04:25:11Z] kiss-live, I didn't know it had an installer [2022-08-19T05:24:11Z] tails-kiss-live edition with browser only would be cool [2022-08-19T05:27:04Z] what [2022-08-19T05:27:13Z] wdym [2022-08-19T05:27:38Z] https://tails.boum.org/ [2022-08-19T05:28:06Z] wouldn't tails in its own be good enough? [2022-08-19T05:28:25Z] sure [2022-08-19T05:28:36Z] but it's bloated [2022-08-19T05:29:55Z] i'm working on a whonix kiss editon, it's a fun project [2022-08-19T05:30:35Z] whonix? [2022-08-19T05:31:35Z] https://www.whonix.org/ [2022-08-19T05:42:13Z] mm yes virtualization [2022-08-19T05:59:35Z] I'm also definitely in favour of ML-only, it is relatively *simple* and more accessible [2022-08-19T05:59:47Z] Hi [2022-08-19T06:00:38Z] o/ [2022-08-19T06:02:01Z] hi [2022-08-19T06:03:54Z] also the mlmmj logo made me happy [2022-08-19T06:07:36Z] I was thinking of automating package updates [2022-08-19T06:08:03Z] A shithub action that will update and try to build the package and report any failure [2022-08-19T06:08:09Z] And you get a free binary repo with that [2022-08-19T06:08:53Z] https://github.com/termux/termux-packages/issues/11648 [2022-08-19T06:08:54Z] Like this [2022-08-19T06:25:05Z] we don't have binary repositories. we would have to either rebuild deps for each package on each update or store binaries somewhere [2022-08-19T06:26:53Z] it's also impossible to build bloated packages with github actions, such as rust, llvm, firefox... [2022-08-19T06:27:04Z] ci would simply die [2022-08-19T06:35:21Z] at our scale it would be more efficient to build binary packages on an actual computer, so that not everything has to be downloaded and set up for each package [2022-08-19T06:35:51Z] but there could still be a gh mirror for testuser[m]12 to play with [2022-08-19T06:40:49Z] I've seen people build chromium on it lol [2022-08-19T06:41:03Z] Ill store bins on my server, sha256 will be from ci [2022-08-19T06:43:53Z] https://github.com/actions/cache [2022-08-19T06:44:51Z] It's temporary [2022-08-19T06:47:21Z] GitHub will remove any cache entries that have not been accessed in over 7 days. There is no limit on the number of caches you can store, but the total size of all caches in a repository is limited to 10 GB. [2022-08-19T06:47:36Z] that have not been accessed [2022-08-19T06:47:49Z] we could setup an action to access them [2022-08-19T06:48:16Z] iirc it's possible to setup cron job [2022-08-19T06:49:20Z] but i dont think we can expose the actions cache to public [2022-08-19T06:52:08Z] why would we need that [2022-08-19T06:56:28Z] hmm yea it would be useless outside large packages [2022-08-19T06:57:41Z] you can expose artifacts if you really need that though [2022-08-19T07:00:17Z] dilyn: if you're going to reinstate ML, consider enabling ipv6 [2022-08-19T07:03:07Z] kiss live is back (many thanks to illiliti) - https://github.com/kiss-community/kiss-live [2022-08-19T07:15:03Z] nice [2022-08-19T08:07:41Z] ehawkvu: the kiss-live github link leads to kisslinux.xyz [2022-08-19T08:08:08Z] also very nice its rewritten [2022-08-19T08:12:35Z] but, why not have the entire iso be built without needing a tarball? [2022-08-19T08:13:11Z] wael[m]: We already have a tool that generates tarballs, and it would be a duplication of effort [2022-08-19T08:13:30Z] interesting [2022-08-19T08:13:44Z] any tarball made with mkrootfs should work with it [2022-08-19T08:14:53Z] just a off-topic question, isn't it possible to bootstrap KISS? [2022-08-19T08:15:01Z] i mean this as in to make KISS make a system by itself [2022-08-19T08:15:18Z] i made this a reality using XBPS and having it install all the system packages straight from nothing [2022-08-19T08:16:16Z] well, using binary packages of course [2022-08-19T08:16:45Z] my question is already answered due to how the previous kiss-live did it, it packaged all the system packages and installs them at runtime, via KISS_ROOT i assume. [2022-08-19T08:17:00Z] i really liked that method of isos because of how simple and small the iso was [2022-08-19T08:17:35Z] The previous kiss-live script would use the prebuilt packages, store them in the iso, and on boot, extract them to / [2022-08-19T08:17:58Z] the new one does essentially the same thing, except it just extracts one archive which has the entire system [2022-08-19T08:18:49Z] squashfs? [2022-08-19T08:19:06Z] Long term I'd like to move to squashfs [2022-08-19T08:19:20Z] I was more concerned with just getting the iso to build [2022-08-19T08:19:44Z] I'd like to have it be similar to either void's mklive or cloveros's livecd build script [2022-08-19T08:21:41Z] how big is the iso? [2022-08-19T08:22:05Z] for kiss-live? a little over 100MB [2022-08-19T08:22:32Z] gooood [2022-08-19T08:23:27Z] Yeah it's pretty slim [2022-08-19T08:23:57Z] It could likely get below 100MB if some more programs were dynamically linked [2022-08-19T08:24:09Z] But 109MB is ok to me [2022-08-19T08:24:24Z] why are they not dynamically linked? [2022-08-19T08:25:03Z] a lot of the software in core/ has been made to be statically linked (which I think is good btw), but in this one case it makes the isos a bit bigger [2022-08-19T08:25:11Z] not by much, maybe a few megs [2022-08-19T08:31:45Z] Can there be a mix of generic and native code in a binary if you statically link a library that was buily with march=native ? [2022-08-19T08:32:56Z] testuser[m]12: I would think so [2022-08-19T08:40:13Z] Then shouldn't the tarball rebuild itself atleast once [2022-08-19T08:40:23Z] you think kiss will ever be as big as void? [2022-08-19T08:41:34Z] oh god I hope not [2022-08-19T08:41:48Z] mkrootfs will build all packages with general cflags so that should be a non-issue [2022-08-19T08:44:59Z] i mean as popularly [2022-08-19T08:45:25Z] But it doesn't link every package to the packages built for the tarball right? It just builds them all individually ehawkvu [2022-08-19T08:45:28Z] @virutalmachineuser : sure it means more packages or maintainers but the demand is too much [2022-08-19T08:45:42Z] Like static curl will link to the system openssl and zlib it was built on, not the one built for the Tarball [2022-08-19T08:46:11Z] testuser[m]12: I see what you mean - I generally do rootfs builds in a chroot to avoid this problem [2022-08-19T08:46:34Z] I'm not entirely sure how you mitigate it completely, and conviently [2022-08-19T08:47:00Z] i build it two times [2022-08-19T08:48:14Z] Perhaps the CFLAGS could be modified to put the libraries that are available in the new rootfs before the host systems [2022-08-19T08:48:32Z] So that only the general ones are linked against [2022-08-19T08:49:49Z] You'll have to bootstrap a new sysroot [2022-08-19T08:49:54Z] To do it cleanly [2022-08-19T08:50:03Z] I'll try [2022-08-19T10:15:41Z] ehawkvu: in mkrootfs, if KISS is sourced as a 'library' why is die() and msg() still a function although KISS provides it? also there is no real check on if kiss exists in $kissloc, unless -e takes precedence and quits [2022-08-19T10:34:11Z] i very much find the reliance on mkrootfs for kiss-live a bit weird [2022-08-19T10:43:30Z] wael[m]: I inherited the script from carbs, it was originally written by cem - I think it should be possible to remove the sourcing of kiss since it doesn't make much of a difference for the script in the end [2022-08-19T11:05:07Z] testuser[m]12: looks like it might be possible to avoid the 2 step build, gcc at least supports the '--sysroot' flag [2022-08-19T11:05:38Z] which makes gcc act like 'dir' is root, and will look for libraries in the right places [2022-08-19T11:10:43Z] clang also supports it [2022-08-19T11:11:00Z] ehawkvu: why not have the system similar to how void does it? IIRC it makes a rootfs but from there it either makes/converts it to a iso or as is rootfs [2022-08-19T11:23:16Z] That's what we do already [2022-08-19T11:23:38Z] If they make a rootfs, then use that rootfs to make an iso, then we are doing the same thing [2022-08-19T11:23:44Z] its not really automatic plus both are in seperate repositories [2022-08-19T11:23:47Z] but fair enough i suppose [2022-08-19T11:53:03Z] testuser[m]12: https://github.com/kiss-community/mkrootfs/commit/d7db03667bee8da87928eb5a22350cf2a125d6a3 [2022-08-19T13:31:34Z] https://www.phoronix.com/news/GCC-12.2-Compiler-Released [2022-08-19T14:18:31Z] @ehawkvu mpv in kiss-xorg needs libva [2022-08-19T14:30:44Z] testuser[m]12: ty [2022-08-19T14:44:32Z] ohmygosh [2022-08-19T14:44:34Z] dilyn is alive [2022-08-19T14:44:46Z] truly a joyous day is this [2022-08-19T14:44:48Z] where've you been? [2022-08-19T15:13:57Z] lot of work, lot of vacation [2022-08-19T15:38:48Z] been working a lot on embedded hardware stuff; focusing a ton on riscv the last few months [2022-08-19T15:38:53Z] I've become a kernel dev :clown: [2022-08-19T20:46:48Z] https://lore.kernel.org/linux-kbuild/20220819065604.295572-1-masahiroy@kernel.org/T/#t [2022-08-19T20:46:48Z] great [2022-08-19T21:07:25Z] > We are sometimes hit by subtle portability issues like [1] because the [2022-08-19T21:07:25Z] code was only tested on systems where /bin/sh is a symlink to bash. [2022-08-19T21:08:07Z] who would write this and think the solution is enforcing bash [2022-08-19T21:09:04Z] rather than telling the guilty developers to write portable code [2022-08-19T21:11:23Z] "The kbuild test robot also specifies SHELL=/bin/bash to eliminate the [2022-08-19T21:11:24Z] shell portability issue." [2022-08-19T21:11:25Z] Man [2022-08-19T21:11:34Z] if only there was some other way to eliminate shell portability issues [2022-08-19T21:11:37Z] :'( [2022-08-19T21:14:18Z] if only [2022-08-19T21:14:18Z] alas [2022-08-19T21:15:44Z] dilyn@Ares:~ -> apt-cache rdepends --installed bash [2022-08-19T21:15:44Z] bash [2022-08-19T21:15:45Z] Reverse Depends: [2022-08-19T21:15:45Z]   gdm3 [2022-08-19T21:16:03Z] I build the kernel a lot; imagine if I just removed gnome like I want to and then removed bash. I'd be fscked [2022-08-19T21:16:53Z] can't wait when electron is require to build the kernel /s [2022-08-19T21:16:59Z] lol ubuntu won't let you uninstall bash [2022-08-19T21:32:14Z] Does the patch for removing bash dependency has been accepted on linux 5.19 (or 5.20 don't remember) ? [2022-08-19T21:48:39Z] Ogromny: On mainline? Unlikely [2022-08-19T21:51:52Z] Fuck [2022-08-19T21:52:05Z] We need to support bsd kernel lol [2022-08-19T21:52:17Z] linux kernel is becoming shit [2022-08-19T21:53:43Z] Ogromny: https://github.com/ehawkvu/fbsd-repo [2022-08-19T21:54:09Z] Honestly, a big portion of Linux use doesn't come by the kernel itself, but rather by its drivers. [2022-08-19T21:54:32Z] Devs accepting NDAs certainly speed up development. [2022-08-19T21:55:27Z] ehawkvu: :o [2022-08-19T22:00:28Z] Ogromny: it hasn't been accepted [2022-08-19T22:05:26Z] https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/23/linus_torvalds_rust_linux_kernel/, do you feel it, the day we will need rust to compile the kernel... [2022-08-19T22:07:21Z] by that day i'll be on netbsd with wayland [2022-08-19T22:16:49Z] I'm doubtful that anything besides drivers will be written in rust so long as linus is around. [2022-08-19T22:18:58Z] After he let somebody write an email impersonating him about his behavior, feel things would surprise me. [2022-08-19T22:19:37Z] he certainly cares more about the kernel than his behavior or what people think of him [2022-08-19T22:19:38Z] is rust really that bad? [2022-08-19T22:19:44Z] virutalmachineus: Yes [2022-08-19T22:19:56Z] better than c++ imo [2022-08-19T22:19:57Z] Actually it's worse than that. [2022-08-19T22:20:39Z] (Responding to virutalmachineus) [2022-08-19T22:20:54Z] don't you still rust for firefox? are all you running a text browser? [2022-08-19T22:21:09Z] worse ioraff much worse [2022-08-19T22:21:31Z] chromium [2022-08-19T22:21:31Z] * all you guys running a [2022-08-19T22:22:19Z] how? [2022-08-19T22:22:40Z] isn't chromium more bloated [2022-08-19T22:23:04Z] it is, but firefox at the same level tbh [2022-08-19T22:23:42Z] ioraff: let's start with the fact that rust has only one mainstream implementation [2022-08-19T22:23:43Z] some people are insane enough to wait for ~24 hours to compile chromium (ymmv, ofc) [2022-08-19T22:24:59Z] i did wait 2 days and at 99% build failed due to OOM lol [2022-08-19T22:25:27Z] Ouch [2022-08-19T22:25:41Z] I agree that's a problem. presumably to be solved in due time. [2022-08-19T22:25:48Z] konimex? been quite a while [2022-08-19T22:26:28Z] aye, I've been busy for a while [2022-08-19T22:28:07Z] konimex :O  :D <3 [2022-08-19T22:28:18Z] chromium only takes forty minutes to build what are you talking about :eyes: [2022-08-19T22:30:15Z] not in my thinkpad at least, 5 hours in I gave up after problems with the llvm stack [2022-08-19T22:31:47Z] konimex: Went through something similar when trying to compile Librewolf. [2022-08-19T22:32:41Z] I was like "ok, I don't have enough lifetime to spend on this" [2022-08-19T22:34:20Z] ioraff: it will never be solved if rust will keep breaking everything on each release [2022-08-19T22:35:27Z] see firefox for example [2022-08-19T22:35:50Z] it breaks on each rust release due to its dumbness [2022-08-19T22:36:51Z] how one in the sane mind would rely on rust if they simply can't provide stable releases [2022-08-19T22:38:01Z] there are many other problems actually [2022-08-19T22:38:57Z] for example it's impossible to use rust in ipv6-only environments due to its high relience on github [2022-08-19T22:39:13Z] so github is a single point of failure for rust [2022-08-19T22:39:44Z] if github is down, rust is down too [2022-08-19T22:40:33Z] so mircosoft owns rust now [2022-08-19T22:41:50Z] mircosoft hated open source, now they are at the top xd [2022-08-19T22:42:35Z] They donated to Gnome ~.~ [2022-08-19T22:42:50Z] That's like promoting disgenics. [2022-08-19T22:43:19Z] Dysgenics* [2022-08-19T22:43:30Z] hey, Poettering's employed by them now [2022-08-19T22:43:40Z] True [2022-08-19T22:44:56Z] i forgot in which stage are we? extend? [2022-08-19T22:45:31Z] or extinguish? [2022-08-19T22:45:39Z] At the vicinity of extinguish. [2022-08-19T23:08:55Z] how do we stop them!! is this the end to linux? [2022-08-19T23:11:06Z] Depends on what u mean by end. It's certainly not gonna be Linux as we know today. [2022-08-19T23:17:43Z] Linux is on a down path, rust everywhere, systemd, dbus, bloat, bash, glibc, flatpak/appimage/snap, etc [2022-08-19T23:19:08Z] yeah it's inevitable [2022-08-19T23:19:18Z] cuz it's being pushed by corpos [2022-08-19T23:20:22Z] BSD is still solid tho [2022-08-19T23:20:41Z] I wouldn't blame Systemd and its tentacles, Flatpak, Appimage and the likes, on Linux the kernel. Have not seen any core maintainer push that stuff. [2022-08-19T23:21:07Z] These came mostly from some distro maintainers. [2022-08-19T23:25:42Z] look at the recent example [2022-08-19T23:25:54Z] they want to hardcode bash in linux [2022-08-19T23:27:23Z] Honestly I think we should do a KissBSD [2022-08-19T23:29:31Z] I'm out of the loop on the whole Bash thing, could somebody link me to the patch mail? [2022-08-19T23:30:45Z] https://lore.kernel.org/linux-kbuild/20220819065604.295572-1-masahiroy@kernel.org/ [2022-08-19T23:38:26Z] Thank you [2022-08-19T23:41:54Z] He's the Kconfig maintainer, eh. [2022-08-19T23:42:39Z] That one is to blame xD