Gemini Newsgroup RFD

Jason Evans <jsevans (a) mailfence.com>

Hi all,

I've written up a proposal for the comp.infosystems.gemini newsgroup here: 
https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Comp.infosystems.gemini_RFD. If this is OK with 
everyone, I would like someone else to post this to news.groups.proposals 
and to news.groups for discussion and have at least 2 or 3 people reply to 
the article on news.groups saying that they agree with the proposal and 
that they would like to see this new newsgroup created. I could do this 
myself if I need to, but it would be better if someone else from the 
community were to do this also.

If you're new to Usenet, you can see my tutorial on getting started here: 
https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Tutorials

Best Regards,
Jason Evans

Link to individual message.

Plain Text <text (a) sdfeu.org>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2021 19:49:28 +0200, Jason Evans wrote:

> I've written up a proposal for the comp.infosystems.gemini newsgroup

Re-editing the RFD as there were comments in news.groups, I wondered 
whether it would also make sense to create a merged group for c.i.gopher 
and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a suitable name, it seems not worth to 
pursue this idea. 


--- draft below from https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion 
(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: 
comp.infosystems.gemini

NEWSGROUPS LINE:

comp.infosystems.gemini    Gemini Internet Protocol and Hypertext System

RATIONALE:

The Gemini community publishes textual content to be served via the 
Gemini protocol. Linking to other documents Gemini creates a hypertext 
information system similar to the early World Wide Web. The protocol is 
not to be extended per definition and community consent. Although any 
content can be served per Gemini, the community mostly sticks to the 
default content type text/gemini which offers a limited set of line types 
to structure the content and link to other resources.

The newsgroup would compliment the mailing list and some IRC channels, 
probably targeting casual readers not wanting to subscribe to a list by 
mail. 

Recently, Gemini was mentionend in comp.infosystems.gopher. Compared to 
Gopher Gemini encrypts content in transport and probably offers easier 
access to content published by the community due to clients created 
natively for various operating systems, including graphical and mobile 
(e.g. Android and iOS), that resemble well-known web browsers.

CHARTER:

comp.infosystems.gemini covers the Gemini internet protocol and the 
information space that is created by its community and their tools. 

MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated

Link to individual message.

Oliver Simmons <oliversimmo (a) gmail.com>

On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a suitable name

"Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe
a combination browser for these protocols.
There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities.


-Oliver Simmons (GoodClover)

Link to individual message.

Plain Text <text (a) sdfeu.org>

On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a ? name
> 
> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a
> combination browser for these protocols.
> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities.

Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale 
Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below):
https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd

Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on 
the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not 
want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. 

Shall we post to news.groups to discuss this RFD along the other? Cheers


--- alternative/additional rfd for comp.infosystems.small ---

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion 
(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: 
comp.infosystems.small

NEWSGROUPS LINE:

comp.infosystems.small    Small Scale Hypertext Information Spaces

RATIONALE: comp.infosystems.small

The idea for creating the newsgroup comp.infosystems.small originated 
while drafting an RFD for comp.infosystems.gemini as Gemini has some 
overlap with Gopher. Both are hypertext systems much more focussed on 
textual content than the World Wide Web (with its portrayed surveillance 
capitalism in places) and thus address similar concerns. Here a joint 
newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small infosystems is proposed 
for the following reasons.

get too crowded each. A joint newsgroup would probably not drown in 
traffic, either.

communities, e.g. individual or decentralized "small web"/"small net" 
instances such as personal diaries served via http(s) or any other 
protocol.

for future discussions of yet unknown technological undertakings in 
establishing small or niche communities in information space.

Currently discussions about small web/net take place in weblogs, gemini 
logs, gopher holes, twtxt, mastodon, IRC, tilde spaces, and elsewhere. 
The newsgroup comp.infosystems.small could be a new common place. 
Oftentimes, the concept also is referred to using the mistyping term 
"smol" instead of "small" like in "smol net", cf. e.g. https://
communitywiki.org/wiki/SmolNet


Upon creating the group comp.infosystems.small, the existing  
comp.infosystems.gopher shall be deleted or merged into  
comp.infosystems.small.


CHARTER: comp.infosystems.small

comp.infosystems.small  covers information spaces such as hypertext 
systems using internet protocols such as gopher, https, gemini as well as 
the technology and tools created by its various communities' members. 

Binaries should not be posted to the group.

MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated

Link to individual message.

defdefred <defdefred (a) protonmail.com>

Make me thinking of slowfood vs fastfood...
So sloweb :-)

freD.

??????? Original Message ???????

On Monday, October 4th, 2021 at 07:09, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text text at sdfeu.org wrote:
> >
> > > merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a ? name
> >
> > "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a
> >
> > combination browser for these protocols.
> >
> > There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities.
>
> Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale
>
> Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below):
>
> https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd
>
> Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on
>
> the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not
>
> want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process.
>
> Shall we post to news.groups to discuss this RFD along the other? Cheers
>
> --- alternative/additional rfd for comp.infosystems.small ---
>
> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
>
> (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup:
>
> comp.infosystems.small
>
> NEWSGROUPS LINE:
>
> comp.infosystems.small Small Scale Hypertext Information Spaces
>
> RATIONALE: comp.infosystems.small
>
> The idea for creating the newsgroup comp.infosystems.small originated
>
> while drafting an RFD for comp.infosystems.gemini as Gemini has some
>
> overlap with Gopher. Both are hypertext systems much more focussed on
>
> textual content than the World Wide Web (with its portrayed surveillance
>
> capitalism in places) and thus address similar concerns. Here a joint
>
> newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small infosystems is proposed
>
> for the following reasons.
>
> -   The existing Gopher and a future Gemini newsgroup do not seem to be or
>
>     get too crowded each. A joint newsgroup would probably not drown in
>
>     traffic, either.
> -   The joint newsgroup would also invite discussions of related systems or
>
>     communities, e.g. individual or decentralized "small web"/"small net"
>
>     instances such as personal diaries served via http(s) or any other
>
>     protocol.
> -   A newsgroup not being restricted to a named protocol is thus also open
>
>     for future discussions of yet unknown technological undertakings in
>
>     establishing small or niche communities in information space.
>
>     Currently discussions about small web/net take place in weblogs, gemini
>
>     logs, gopher holes, twtxt, mastodon, IRC, tilde spaces, and elsewhere.
>
>     The newsgroup comp.infosystems.small could be a new common place.
>
>     Oftentimes, the concept also is referred to using the mistyping term
>
>     "smol" instead of "small" like in "smol net", cf. e.g. https://
>
>     communitywiki.org/wiki/SmolNet
>
>     Upon creating the group comp.infosystems.small, the existing
>
>     comp.infosystems.gopher shall be deleted or merged into
>
>     comp.infosystems.small.
>
>     CHARTER: comp.infosystems.small
>
>     comp.infosystems.small covers information spaces such as hypertext
>
>     systems using internet protocols such as gopher, https, gemini as well as
>
>     the technology and tools created by its various communities' members.
>
>     Binaries should not be posted to the group.
>
>     MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated

Link to individual message.

Jonathan McHugh <indieterminacy (a) libre.brussels>

Is slowfood the samething as slowcooking?
And if I look for such recipies drinking sloe gin does it make it sloeweb?

====================
Jonathan McHugh
indieterminacy at libre.brussels

October 4, 2021 9:22 AM, "defdefred" <defdefred at protonmail.com> wrote:

> Make me thinking of slowfood vs fastfood...
> So sloweb :-)
> 
> freD.
> 
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> 
> On Monday, October 4th, 2021 at 07:09, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text text at sdfeu.org wrote:
>> 
>>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a ? name
>> 
>> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a
>> 
>> combination browser for these protocols.
>> 
>> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities.
>> 
>> Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale
>> 
>> Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below):
>> 
>> https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd
>> 
>> Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on
>> 
>> the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not
>> 
>> want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process.
>> 
>> Shall we post to news.groups to discuss this RFD along the other? Cheers
>> 
>> --- alternative/additional rfd for comp.infosystems.small ---
>> 
>> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion
>> 
>> (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup:
>> 
>> comp.infosystems.small
>> 
>> NEWSGROUPS LINE:
>> 
>> comp.infosystems.small Small Scale Hypertext Information Spaces
>> 
>> RATIONALE: comp.infosystems.small
>> 
>> The idea for creating the newsgroup comp.infosystems.small originated
>> 
>> while drafting an RFD for comp.infosystems.gemini as Gemini has some
>> 
>> overlap with Gopher. Both are hypertext systems much more focussed on
>> 
>> textual content than the World Wide Web (with its portrayed surveillance
>> 
>> capitalism in places) and thus address similar concerns. Here a joint
>> 
>> newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small infosystems is proposed
>> 
>> for the following reasons.
>> 
>> - The existing Gopher and a future Gemini newsgroup do not seem to be or
>> 
>> get too crowded each. A joint newsgroup would probably not drown in
>> 
>> traffic, either.
>> - The joint newsgroup would also invite discussions of related systems or
>> 
>> communities, e.g. individual or decentralized "small web"/"small net"
>> 
>> instances such as personal diaries served via http(s) or any other
>> 
>> protocol.
>> - A newsgroup not being restricted to a named protocol is thus also open
>> 
>> for future discussions of yet unknown technological undertakings in
>> 
>> establishing small or niche communities in information space.
>> 
>> Currently discussions about small web/net take place in weblogs, gemini
>> 
>> logs, gopher holes, twtxt, mastodon, IRC, tilde spaces, and elsewhere.
>> 
>> The newsgroup comp.infosystems.small could be a new common place.
>> 
>> Oftentimes, the concept also is referred to using the mistyping term
>> 
>> "smol" instead of "small" like in "smol net", cf. e.g. https://
>> 
>> communitywiki.org/wiki/SmolNet
>> 
>> Upon creating the group comp.infosystems.small, the existing
>> 
>> comp.infosystems.gopher shall be deleted or merged into
>> 
>> comp.infosystems.small.
>> 
>> CHARTER: comp.infosystems.small
>> 
>> comp.infosystems.small covers information spaces such as hypertext
>> 
>> systems using internet protocols such as gopher, https, gemini as well as
>> 
>> the technology and tools created by its various communities' members.
>> 
>> Binaries should not be posted to the group.
>> 
>> MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated

Link to individual message.

Alice <lia (a) loveisanalogue.info>

Hello,

Are you suggesting a "small net" group as well as a Gemini group, or 
instead of a Gemini group ?


:-)
A.

On 4 October 2021 06:09:31 BST, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
>>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a ? name
>> 
>> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a
>> combination browser for these protocols.
>> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities.
>
>Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale 
>Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below):
>https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd
>
>Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on 
>the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not 
>want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. 
>
>Shall we post to news.groups to discuss this RFD along the other? Cheers
>
>
>--- alternative/additional rfd for comp.infosystems.small ---
>
>REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion 
>(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: 
>comp.infosystems.small
>
>NEWSGROUPS LINE:
>
>comp.infosystems.small    Small Scale Hypertext Information Spaces
>
>RATIONALE: comp.infosystems.small
>
>The idea for creating the newsgroup comp.infosystems.small originated 
>while drafting an RFD for comp.infosystems.gemini as Gemini has some 
>overlap with Gopher. Both are hypertext systems much more focussed on 
>textual content than the World Wide Web (with its portrayed surveillance 
>capitalism in places) and thus address similar concerns. Here a joint 
>newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small infosystems is proposed 
>for the following reasons.
>* The existing Gopher and a future Gemini newsgroup do not seem to be or 
>get too crowded each. A joint newsgroup would probably not drown in 
>traffic, either.
>* The joint newsgroup would also invite discussions of related systems or 
>communities, e.g. individual or decentralized "small web"/"small net" 
>instances such as personal diaries served via http(s) or any other 
>protocol.
>* A newsgroup not being restricted to a named protocol is thus also open 
>for future discussions of yet unknown technological undertakings in 
>establishing small or niche communities in information space.
>
>Currently discussions about small web/net take place in weblogs, gemini 
>logs, gopher holes, twtxt, mastodon, IRC, tilde spaces, and elsewhere. 
>The newsgroup comp.infosystems.small could be a new common place. 
>Oftentimes, the concept also is referred to using the mistyping term 
>"smol" instead of "small" like in "smol net", cf. e.g. https://
>communitywiki.org/wiki/SmolNet
>
>
>Upon creating the group comp.infosystems.small, the existing  
>comp.infosystems.gopher shall be deleted or merged into  
>comp.infosystems.small.
>
>
>CHARTER: comp.infosystems.small
>
>comp.infosystems.small  covers information spaces such as hypertext 
>systems using internet protocols such as gopher, https, gemini as well as 
>the technology and tools created by its various communities' members. 
>
>Binaries should not be posted to the group.
>
>MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated
>

Link to individual message.

defdefred <defdefred (a) protonmail.com>

> Is slowfood the samething as slowcooking?
> And if I look for such recipies drinking sloe gin does it make it sloeweb?
Love It!
And I know what it is... Planned to make chestnut cream this evening...

Link to individual message.

Plain Text <text (a) sdfeu.org>

Yes, the idea was one group for Gemini, Gopher, and other "small net" 
approaches. But I guess establishing a new newsgroup might be easier/more 
welcome than touching one that exists since decades.

Basically the alternative proposal would have been to move/rename  
c.i.gopher  to  c.i.small  (or any name more suitable).

On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 13:02:04 +0100, Alice wrote:
> Are you suggesting a "small net" group as well as a Gemini group, or
> instead of a Gemini group ?
> 
> On 4 October 2021 06:09:31 BST, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
>>On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
>>>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a ? name
>>> 
>>> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe
>>> a combination browser for these protocols.
>>> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities.
>>
>> Here a joint newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small
>> infosystems is proposed [...]
>>
>>
>>Upon creating the group comp.infosystems.small, the existing
>>comp.infosystems.gopher shall be deleted or merged into
>>comp.infosystems.small.
>>
>>
>>CHARTER: comp.infosystems.small
>>
>>comp.infosystems.small  covers information spaces such as hypertext
>>systems using internet protocols such as gopher, https, gemini as well
>>as the technology and tools created by its various communities' members.

Link to individual message.

The Doctor <drwho (a) virtadpt.net>


??????? Original Message ???????

On Monday, October 4th, 2021 at 00:21, defdefred <defdefred at protonmail.com> wrote:

> Make me thinking of slowfood vs fastfood...

Al's waiter: (yawn) May I take your order...?
Bob: I NEED SLOW FOOD TO GO FAST!!!
Al's waiter: ...ha, ha, ha, thats a good one. Hear THAT AL...?
Al: ...WHAAT!?!

---
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the 
time of monsters.

Link to individual message.

Nathan Galt <mailinglists (a) ngalt.com>


> On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:09 PM, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
>>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a ? name
>> 
>> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a
>> combination browser for these protocols.
>> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities.
> 
> Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale 
> Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below):
> https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd
> 
> Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on 
> the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not 
> want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. 

This might be a fantastically premature question, but:

Twitter was once a small Ruby on Rails app. Since ?small? is a functional 
definition, does a protocol get booted out of the group if it becomes too popular?

Link to individual message.

Jonathan McHugh <indieterminacy (a) libre.brussels>

How many people knew where the '#' key was prior to Twitter?
How many people knew where the '`' key was prior to Gemini?

When your grandparents can find '`' on the keyboard Gemini has 
mainstreamed - Perhaps they^1 can serve as a tripwire to eject the 
protocol from the group^2? 


^1 Only your grandparents' cognition, nobody elses elders
^2 textual diambiguation wise, group is perhaps a little ambiguous, I had 
to cross reference again a hash of unknown societies before determining it 
was (indeed) the RFD Usenet group

====================
Jonathan McHugh
indieterminacy at libre.brussels

October 5, 2021 5:27 AM, "Nathan Galt" <mailinglists at ngalt.com> wrote:

>> On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:09 PM, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
>> 
>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a ? name
>>> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a
>>> combination browser for these protocols.
>>> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities.
>> 
>> Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale
>> Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below):
>> https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd
>> 
>> Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on
>> the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not
>> want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process.
> 
> This might be a fantastically premature question, but:
> 
> Twitter was once a small Ruby on Rails app. Since ?small? is a 
functional definition, does a
> protocol get booted out of the group if it becomes too popular?

Link to individual message.

Vlad Markov <dvoich (a) aim.com>

My 2 cents - I do not think people newly interested in Gemini will think 
of looking in a newsgroup without Gemini in the name.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 07:00:12 +0000
"Jonathan McHugh" <indieterminacy at libre.brussels> wrote:

> How many people knew where the '#' key was prior to Twitter?
> How many people knew where the '`' key was prior to Gemini?
> 
> When your grandparents can find '`' on the keyboard Gemini has 
mainstreamed - Perhaps they^1 can serve as a tripwire to eject the 
protocol from the group^2? 
> 
> 
> ^1 Only your grandparents' cognition, nobody elses elders
> ^2 textual diambiguation wise, group is perhaps a little ambiguous, I 
had to cross reference again a hash of unknown societies before 
determining it was (indeed) the RFD Usenet group
> 
> ====================
> Jonathan McHugh
> indieterminacy at libre.brussels
> 
> October 5, 2021 5:27 AM, "Nathan Galt" <mailinglists at ngalt.com> wrote:
> 
> >> On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:09 PM, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
> >> 
> >> On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote:
> >> 
> >>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text at sdfeu.org> wrote:
> >> 
> >> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a ? name
> >>> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a
> >>> combination browser for these protocols.
> >>> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities.
> >> 
> >> Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale
> >> Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below):
> >> https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd
> >> 
> >> Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on
> >> the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not
> >> want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process.
> > 
> > This might be a fantastically premature question, but:
> > 
> > Twitter was once a small Ruby on Rails app. Since ?small? is a 
functional definition, does a
> > protocol get booted out of the group if it becomes too popular?


--

Link to individual message.

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