2019-09-01 22:19:51	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2019-09-01 22:19:51	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "channel for gemini (protocol) enthusiasts"
2019-09-01 22:19:51	ℹ 	Topic set by jan6 (jan6@tilde.team) on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:42:44
2019-09-01 22:19:51	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 3 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal)
2019-09-01 22:19:52	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2019-09-02 00:28:30	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by tiwesdaeg
2019-09-02 00:28:58	~tiwesdaeg	do we know of anyone else interested in gemini here in the tildeverse?
2019-09-02 12:51:44	@tomasino	Hmm, not sure
2019-09-02 12:51:50	@tomasino	Are you on the mailing list?
2019-09-02 12:58:23	⚡	jan6 iz a noobz (as I said before ya got here)
2019-09-02 12:59:24	⚡	jan6 doesn't even know how to view gemini pages, not to mention what it is (had to shutdown computer mid-reading iirc), nor if there's any list, just snatched up the channel ;P
2019-09-02 13:10:38	~tiwesdaeg	I subscribed, but haven't seen any traffic yet
2019-09-02 14:20:51	@tomasino	There were two emails this morning. One from me
2019-09-02 14:31:46	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, maybe I forgot to confirm the subscription
2019-09-02 14:32:08	~tiwesdaeg	I just reapplied with my tilde.pink address
2019-09-02 14:36:00	~tiwesdaeg	I'm reading through the archives now
2019-09-02 14:47:16	~tiwesdaeg	I didn't realize there was so much talk about incorporating markdown
2019-09-02 14:50:06	~tiwesdaeg	hah, for some reason I thought pink was the 10th, but it's the 12th
2019-09-02 14:50:16	~tiwesdaeg	dirty dozen baby
2019-09-02 14:51:14	~tiwesdaeg	I need to catch up on some of these concepts like text reflow
2019-09-02 14:52:28	~tiwesdaeg	nevermind, it's just how av98 displays the links
2019-09-02 14:52:44	~tiwesdaeg	link 12, 10th server
2019-09-02 14:53:25	~tiwesdaeg	I talked to erkin about maybe converting gophwr over to gemini
2019-09-05 02:55:24	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-05 13:43:19	⚡	tiwesdaeg waves at mhj
2019-09-05 13:59:24	ℹ 	Notice(team.tilde.chat): *** tiwesdaeg invited ben into the channel
2019-09-05 13:59:28	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2019-09-05 13:59:34	ben	so many damn channels
2019-09-05 13:59:37	~tiwesdaeg	I know
2019-09-05 13:59:59	~tiwesdaeg	we just started this a day or two ago
2019-09-05 14:01:27	~tiwesdaeg	are you on the mailing list?
2019-09-05 14:01:46	ben	no
2019-09-05 14:01:49	ben	is it on lists.t.o?
2019-09-05 14:01:58	ben	gemini://tilde.team
2019-09-05 14:02:17	~tiwesdaeg	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/listinfo/gemini
2019-09-05 14:02:48	~tiwesdaeg	gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini
2019-09-05 14:02:57	~tiwesdaeg	main gemini page on gopher
2019-09-05 14:03:40	@tomasino	prolly should add that to the title, eh?
2019-09-05 14:03:45	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space
2019-09-05 14:03:55	~tiwesdaeg	links to the same page on gemini
2019-09-05 14:04:13	ℹ 	tomasino has changed topic for #gemini from "channel for gemini (protocol) enthusiasts" to "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini"
2019-09-05 14:04:16	@tomasino	there we go
2019-09-05 14:04:59	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://tilde.team so boring
2019-09-05 14:05:09	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://tilde.pink way better
2019-09-05 14:06:20	@tomasino	:D
2019-09-05 14:06:22	ben	oh huh
2019-09-05 14:06:34	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black is slightly less cool than pink
2019-09-05 14:06:47	~tiwesdaeg	index.gmi
2019-09-05 14:07:07	~tiwesdaeg	currently there's plain text and gemini links
2019-09-05 14:07:17	@tomasino	index.gmi tiwesdaeg ?
2019-09-05 14:07:21	@tomasino	not .gemini?
2019-09-05 14:07:33	@tomasino	did jetforce update to support index.gmi too?
2019-09-05 14:07:37	~tiwesdaeg	there's a lot of discussion on a gemini specific markdown language
2019-09-05 14:08:04	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino:  originally jetforce was .gemini
2019-09-05 14:08:23	@tomasino	that's what i've got running still on black
2019-09-05 14:08:26	~tiwesdaeg	but it looks like the jetforce author added .gmi as well
2019-09-05 14:08:29	@tomasino	i better update
2019-09-05 14:08:38	@tomasino	and fix my script to check for either file for listings
2019-09-05 14:08:46	~tiwesdaeg	I think everyone was leaning towards .gmi as a suggested default
2019-09-05 14:09:00	~tiwesdaeg	each server can make whatever they want as default
2019-09-05 14:09:22	@tomasino	yeah, that was my email. ;D
2019-09-05 14:09:35	~tiwesdaeg	I want to say jetforce lets you set a default
2019-09-05 14:09:51	@tomasino	he must have updated again. when i read his source it was hardcoded to .gemini
2019-09-05 14:09:54	@tomasino	that's great, though
2019-09-05 14:10:04	@tomasino	being able to set an index or a line of indeces
2019-09-05 14:10:07	~tiwesdaeg	--index-file FILE
2019-09-05 14:10:33	~tiwesdaeg	you could cal it geminimap if that's your fancy
2019-09-05 14:10:46	mhj	yo tiwesdaeg, morning
2019-09-05 14:10:52	mhj	heyo all
2019-09-05 14:10:59	ben	https://ttm.sh/fs.txt
2019-09-05 14:11:02	ben	systemd unit for jetforce
2019-09-05 14:11:32	~tiwesdaeg	I should just set me letsencrypt key for tilde.pink
2019-09-05 14:11:52	~tiwesdaeg	I was trying out jetforce's key autogen feature
2019-09-05 14:12:21	@tomasino	i generated a new key instead of piggybacking on letsencrypt
2019-09-05 14:12:30	@tomasino	if it's easy to do, let me know. I'd rather do that too
2019-09-05 14:12:35	@tomasino	nice, ben
2019-09-05 14:12:48	ben	self-signed feels silly when i have a perfectly good cert just sitting there
2019-09-05 14:13:47	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino:  jetforce just generates a new key each time you run it if you don't set the key
2019-09-05 14:13:58	@tomasino	i set the key manually to one i generated for a year
2019-09-05 14:14:04	@tomasino	but i didn't point it at lets encrypt
2019-09-05 14:14:16	@tomasino	i was just following the readme, honestly
2019-09-05 14:14:19	~tiwesdaeg	If you do not provide a TLS certificate file using the --tls-certfile flag, jetforce will automatically generate a temporary cert for you to use.
2019-09-05 14:14:41	ben	are self-signed/temp certs automatically trusted?
2019-09-05 14:14:44	@tomasino	agreed. i'd rather use the letsencrypt one
2019-09-05 14:14:48	ben	or does it throw a warning?
2019-09-05 14:14:53	@tomasino	they're trusted
2019-09-05 14:15:01	@tomasino	i think
2019-09-05 14:15:04	ben	weird
2019-09-05 14:15:04	@tomasino	no warnings
2019-09-05 14:15:17	@tomasino	i don't grok TLS so no clue
2019-09-05 14:15:34	ben	i have a vague understanding of it
2019-09-05 14:16:42	@tomasino	gonna update my rcctl to use lets encrypt like ben's systemd script is doing
2019-09-05 14:18:50	mhj	I don't have a domain name, but here ya go: 165.22.178.247 . It's running on a FreeBSD digital ocean instance ``
2019-09-05 14:19:00	ben	o
2019-09-05 14:19:04	ben	no domaine?
2019-09-05 14:19:11	@tomasino	uhoh
2019-09-05 14:19:11	mhj	Not yet D:
2019-09-05 14:19:24	mhj	?
2019-09-05 14:22:15	~tiwesdaeg	I think with gemini, there's no support for certificate servers, so the client just trusts the keys
2019-09-05 14:23:08	ben	tls doesn't need cert servers
2019-09-05 14:23:15	ben	it's a chain of trust
2019-09-05 14:24:36	ben	do you server per-user geminispaces?
2019-09-05 14:24:42	ben	does jetforce support ~/public_gemini
2019-09-05 14:24:46	@tomasino	and i broke it
2019-09-05 14:24:51	ben	nice
2019-09-05 14:24:54	~tiwesdaeg	nope
2019-09-05 14:25:01	ben	:(
2019-09-05 14:25:04	~tiwesdaeg	I'm suing the same trick I did with geomyidae
2019-09-05 14:25:10	@tomasino	no, it doesn't, but i generated my own with symlinks
2019-09-05 14:25:14	ben	oh yikes
2019-09-05 14:25:23	~tiwesdaeg	ln ~username to public_gemini
2019-09-05 14:25:24	ben	sounds painful
2019-09-05 14:25:30	@tomasino	scripted it
2019-09-05 14:25:33	@tomasino	was pretty quick
2019-09-05 14:25:36	ben	right
2019-09-05 14:25:41	ben	not super maintainable though
2019-09-05 14:25:46	~tiwesdaeg	ben:  I have a cron setup that searches for public_gemini every 15 minutes
2019-09-05 14:25:53	@tomasino	for black it makes sense. we don't make new accounts when people join
2019-09-05 14:26:01	ben	oh right
2019-09-05 14:26:11	@tomasino	now why is everything broken
2019-09-05 14:26:13	@tomasino	i'm sad
2019-09-05 14:27:02	ben	rip
2019-09-05 14:29:29	@tomasino	i can run it manually just fine
2019-09-05 14:29:33	@tomasino	ugh, i hate computers
2019-09-05 14:29:40	@tomasino	i just undid my changes and it's failing again
2019-09-05 14:29:55	~tiwesdaeg	is this your rc script?
2019-09-05 14:29:59	~tiwesdaeg	mine sucks
2019-09-05 14:30:03	~tiwesdaeg	it will start it
2019-09-05 14:30:19	~tiwesdaeg	but then I can't use to stop or restart it
2019-09-05 14:30:54	ben	heh mine works great with systemd so far
2019-09-05 14:30:58	ben	logs aren't showing up though
2019-09-05 14:31:05	ben	do they go to stderr or something instead?
2019-09-05 14:31:10	@tomasino	mine was workin fine to start, stop, restart
2019-09-05 14:31:22	@tomasino	and now, it craps out
2019-09-05 14:31:24	@tomasino	grrr
2019-09-05 14:31:25	ben	rip
2019-09-05 14:31:37	@tomasino	that's the worst, when you didn't change anything and it's broken
2019-09-05 14:33:52	~tiwesdaeg	I don't see a log option
2019-09-05 14:34:08	ben	journalctl shows stdout
2019-09-05 14:34:14	ben	but it's not showing up for jetforce
2019-09-05 14:39:18	@tomasino	ahha
2019-09-05 14:39:25	@tomasino	it's my attempt to run it as the gemini user
2019-09-05 14:39:28	@tomasino	getting permission errors
2019-09-05 14:41:21	@tomasino	yep
2019-09-05 14:41:36	@tomasino	my private key for letsencrypt wasn't visible to the gemini user
2019-09-05 14:41:43	@tomasino	had to change groups around and tweak permissions
2019-09-05 14:41:46	@tomasino	whew, we're back
2019-09-05 14:47:56	@tomasino	he changed from .gemini to index.gmi but didn't leave both working
2019-09-05 14:48:00	@tomasino	gotta update my stuffs now
2019-09-05 14:54:52	@tomasino	whew
2019-09-05 14:54:54	@tomasino	and black is back
2019-09-05 15:00:32	~tiwesdaeg	ahh
2019-09-06 13:40:14		tiwesdaeg has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2019-09-06 13:41:38	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2019-09-06 13:41:38	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2019-09-08 15:16:57	~tiwesdaeg	I'm finally reading through the gemini message list
2019-09-08 15:34:25	▬▬▶	hyperboredoubt has joined #gemini
2019-09-08 15:34:30	hyperboredoubt	Hi, peoples.
2019-09-08 15:49:37	~tiwesdaeg	welcome to project gemini
2019-09-08 15:49:50	⚡	tiwesdaeg issues hyperboredoubt a tinfoil hat
2019-09-08 15:51:30	hyperboredoubt	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urglg3WimHA
2019-09-08 15:52:53	hyperboredoubt	Bad idea: someone should make a new protocol for each of the zodiac. Haha.
2019-09-08 16:07:41	mhj	Hi tiwesdaeg, got my gemini server up with a domain name now. Just go to earthlight.xyz :D
2019-09-08 16:07:57	mhj	yo hyperboredoubt
2019-09-08 16:09:42	~tiwesdaeg	awesome!
2019-09-08 16:09:49	~tiwesdaeg	did you let solderpunk know?
2019-09-08 16:10:00	~tiwesdaeg	he's been keeping a list of known servers
2019-09-08 16:10:51	mhj	Oh, I will. How would I get in touch with him?
2019-09-08 16:13:13	~tiwesdaeg	I sent him an email
2019-09-08 16:13:31	mhj	Thanks :D
2019-09-08 16:14:02	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk@sdf.org
2019-09-08 16:14:38	mhj	I will keep that for future reference. I've joined the gemini mailing list too.
2019-09-08 16:15:02	hyperboredoubt	Hi, mhj.
2019-09-08 16:16:08	mhj	How've you been hyperboredoubt? Do you go through gopher servers a lot? Ever been on a gemini server yet?
2019-09-08 16:17:09	~tiwesdaeg	I'm still trying to read through it right now
2019-09-08 16:17:23	~tiwesdaeg	so many things distracting me this morning like cats and kids
2019-09-08 16:18:11	mhj	Wow, that would be a distraction lol
2019-09-08 16:20:14	~tiwesdaeg	life is distracting
2019-09-08 16:20:42	~tiwesdaeg	also, compiling wireguard on netbsd has been very distracting for the past few days
2019-09-08 16:21:24	hyperboredoubt	Honestly, I usually only check Gopher once a month or so.
2019-09-08 16:21:50	hyperboredoubt	I can't access Gemini since there are no web-to-Gemini proxies yet.
2019-09-08 16:27:23	~tiwesdaeg	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/agena
2019-09-08 16:27:35	~tiwesdaeg	there is a gemini to gopher proxy though ;P
2019-09-08 16:27:36	mhj	tiwesdaeg: didn't know you used NetBSD. I primarily have experience with Open and FreeBSD
2019-09-08 16:27:52	~tiwesdaeg	it's a new hobby
2019-09-08 16:28:12	~tiwesdaeg	these days, I am familiar with openbsd the most
2019-09-08 16:28:35	~tiwesdaeg	tilde.pink just recently switched to netbsd from dragonflybsd
2019-09-08 16:29:10	mhj	Did Dragonfly have too much overhead or something?
2019-09-08 16:29:18	~tiwesdaeg	there's better software support overall, but I have not been able to get wireguard running to connect to tildenet
2019-09-08 16:29:37	~tiwesdaeg	there were issues with an upgrade and a full hammer filesystem
2019-09-08 16:29:43	~tiwesdaeg	mistakes were made ;P
2019-09-08 16:29:52	mhj	Yeah I get that :X
2019-09-08 16:30:15	~tiwesdaeg	it seemed like a nice time to start fresh and with something new
2019-09-08 16:30:32	~tiwesdaeg	so far, netbsd has been really nice to use
2019-09-08 16:30:50	~tiwesdaeg	it feels slightly closer to openbsd than freebsd
2019-09-08 16:32:31	mhj	Yeah, the only thing I could never get into about NetBSD was that it does absolutely nothing for you in regards to installing daemons. Like it'll tell you what needs to be done, but sometimes in a confusing manner I think
2019-09-08 16:33:18	mhj	Whereas with OpenBSD it's just like "rcctl <daemon> start" BAM, DONE
2019-09-08 16:34:09	~tiwesdaeg	basically, you copy the example rc file to /etc/rc.d
2019-09-08 16:34:31	~tiwesdaeg	add daemon=YES to /etc/rc.conf
2019-09-08 16:34:39	~tiwesdaeg	then service daemon start
2019-09-08 16:35:02	~tiwesdaeg	I don't know why they don't just put it in rc.d from the get go
2019-09-08 16:35:25	~tiwesdaeg	openbsd I think still requires rc.conf to have an entry
2019-09-08 16:35:38	~tiwesdaeg	then you can control it with rcctrl or whatever
2019-09-08 16:35:49	mhj	Oooh. OK, I get it now. I think I mostly got confused with samba, but everything else worked
2019-09-08 16:36:06	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, if you read the output after installing a daemon package
2019-09-08 16:36:25	~tiwesdaeg	it tells you the location of the rc file and where you should put it if you want to run it
2019-09-08 16:36:45	~tiwesdaeg	errbody gotta be different
2019-09-08 16:36:52	mhj	lol yup
2019-09-08 16:38:04	mhj	I have no idea how Dragonfly does it btw
2019-09-08 16:38:12	mhj	Do they just copy from FreBSD?
2019-09-08 16:40:08	~tiwesdaeg	a lot of the packages are brought over from freebsd still
2019-09-08 16:40:18	~tiwesdaeg	it definitely feels more freebsd like
2019-09-08 16:40:42	~tiwesdaeg	you don't have to manually copy rc files
2019-09-08 16:41:01	~tiwesdaeg	I used freebsd back in the early 2000s
2019-09-08 16:41:47	~tiwesdaeg	I actually installed netbsd once back in like 97/98 timeframe
2019-09-08 16:42:00	~tiwesdaeg	got it to dialup for internet
2019-09-08 16:45:50	mhj	Hmm
2019-09-08 16:46:08	mhj	I used Linux back then, and then, only for a bit.
2019-09-08 16:46:21	mhj	But I felt like I always liked BSD more
2019-09-08 16:46:44	mhj	Mainly because it seems to be more evolutionary than revolutionary in regards to development
2019-09-08 16:47:58	mhj	Also the fact that it comes with so many utils in the base, compared with Linux which varies wildly by distro
2019-09-08 16:50:00	~tiwesdaeg	there was this big lawsuit back in the 90s of bsd code
2019-09-08 16:50:10	~tiwesdaeg	s/of/over
2019-09-08 16:50:43	~tiwesdaeg	it created this perfect window for linux to move in as the open source operating system of choice
2019-09-08 16:51:11	~tiwesdaeg	even after the lawsuit was over and bsd won, it never quite recovered
2019-09-08 16:52:00	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, a lot of bsd code has gone in to some closed source software that is in high use today, like macos
2019-09-08 16:52:35	~tiwesdaeg	I'm still happy that the different bsd operating systems keep on chugging along
2019-09-08 17:00:29	mhj	Me too
2019-09-08 17:00:53	mhj	When OpenBSD 6.6 comes out, I plan to put it on my desktop
2019-09-08 17:03:01	hyperboredoubt	What is it?
2019-09-08 17:03:37	mhj	?
2019-09-08 17:08:41	hyperboredoubt	What is OpenBSD?
2019-09-08 17:16:15	mhj	Sorry, was on the phone
2019-09-08 17:16:35	mhj	OpenBSD is an operating system that's focused on security and simplicity
2019-09-08 17:16:56	mhj	It's very Unix-like
2019-09-08 17:17:18	mhj	Well, I should say, it IS a Unix
2019-09-08 17:17:42	mhj	But in any case, it's very barebones, but also very usable.
2019-09-08 17:17:50	hyperboredoubt	And GNU is Gnu's Not Unix.
2019-09-08 17:17:59	mhj	lol yup
2019-09-08 17:18:21	hyperboredoubt	Why is it not Unix?
2019-09-08 17:18:46	mhj	Long story haha
2019-09-08 17:19:32	hyperboredoubt	Too many nerd wars. It is worse than learning ancient history, lol.
2019-09-08 17:19:41	mhj	I'll give a summary in a bit, gotta do some stuff first lol
2019-09-08 17:20:04	hyperboredoubt	Have fun.
2019-09-08 20:12:29	~tiwesdaeg	anyone try the asuka client yet?
2019-09-08 20:12:35	~tiwesdaeg	I'm digging the ncurses look
2019-09-08 20:13:11	hyperboredoubt	I haven't tried any yet, sorry.
2019-09-08 20:14:15	~tiwesdaeg	mhj:  nice art on earthlight.xyz
2019-09-08 20:14:46	hyperboredoubt	What is it?
2019-09-08 20:15:32	~tiwesdaeg	looks like a sphere lit by an external light source
2019-09-08 20:15:44	~tiwesdaeg	I'm guessing it's probably the earth
2019-09-08 20:18:14	hyperboredoubt	Cool!
2019-09-08 20:18:40	~tiwesdaeg	hyperboredoubt:  do you have python installed on your computer?
2019-09-08 20:18:58	~tiwesdaeg	if so, you should be able to run AV-98, a gemini browser
2019-09-08 20:19:23	hyperboredoubt	I do not. Perhaps I should.
2019-09-08 20:27:03		hyperboredoubt has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2019-09-09 01:32:09	mhj	Hey all
2019-09-09 01:32:23	mhj	Gonna work on updating the site a little tonight
2019-09-09 01:33:29	mhj	And the picture I converted to ANSI is actually a solar eclipse, lol
2019-09-09 01:34:05	mhj	I'm debating whether to keep it, but I do like it
2019-09-09 16:00:57		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2019-09-09 16:04:16	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2019-09-09 18:17:31	ℹ 	Notice(team.tilde.chat): *** tiwesdaeg invited julienXX into the channel
2019-09-09 18:17:42	ℹ 	Notice(team.tilde.chat): *** tiwesdaeg invited julienXX into the channel
2019-09-10 00:02:44	▬▬▶	hyperboredoubt has joined #gemini
2019-09-10 00:02:49	hyperboredoubt	Hey, everyone. I'm slowly trying to phase the internet out of my life since I spend a significant portion of my waking hours on it and books stimulate my mind better.
2019-09-10 00:02:52	hyperboredoubt	If anyone wants to keep in contact, please send me a message so I can send you my e-mail address and through that my physical address.
2019-09-10 00:02:54	hyperboredoubt	Thank you for having me.
2019-09-10 02:16:14		hyperboredoubt has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2019-09-10 05:22:10	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2019-09-10 15:05:37		mhj has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2019-09-10 15:05:37		ben has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2019-09-10 15:05:37		tiwesdaeg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2019-09-10 15:07:54	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2019-09-10 15:07:54	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-10 15:07:54	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2019-09-10 15:07:54	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by hub.tilde.chat
2019-09-12 05:07:35		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2019-09-12 10:13:58	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-12 19:45:02		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2019-09-12 20:34:29	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-13 18:56:45		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2019-09-13 19:43:05	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-13 20:05:43		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2019-09-13 20:07:14	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-14 07:52:24		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-14 10:36:19	▬▬▶	julienXX has joined #gemini
2019-09-14 10:36:43	julienXX	hi there!
2019-09-14 11:04:21	cat	hi julienXX!
2019-09-14 11:58:50	@jan6	ahoy
2019-09-14 11:59:05	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by jan6
2019-09-14 13:02:32	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  I really like your asuka client
2019-09-14 13:02:46	~tiwesdaeg	hey cat
2019-09-14 13:08:57	julienXX	Hey thanks tiwesdaeg!
2019-09-14 13:09:24	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't tried out your server
2019-09-14 13:10:28	julienXX	It’s not really ready for prime time, heavily customized for my needs but I want to clean it up to make a real release
2019-09-14 13:11:06	~tiwesdaeg	have you been planning any new features for asuka?
2019-09-14 13:12:47	julienXX	Not really I was in a cleaning phase. I want to be able to open non-gemini links first (in external tools I suppose). Do you have specific features you’d like?
2019-09-14 13:14:21	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm, maybe a way to bookmark links
2019-09-14 13:14:42	~tiwesdaeg	back and forward keys would be nice
2019-09-14 13:15:02	~tiwesdaeg	I just broke the program ;P
2019-09-14 13:15:12	julienXX	Ah yes bookmarks were on my list too.
2019-09-14 13:15:28	~tiwesdaeg	it crashed when I went to a link
2019-09-14 13:15:46	~tiwesdaeg	I just restarted it and all three menu options return the same error
2019-09-14 13:15:50	@jan6	ideally you'd allow specifying openers for any file, so that say, if there's ssh:// or kermit:// then it won't refuse to open, or try opening wrong thing ;P
2019-09-14 13:16:11	@jan6	s/file/protocol/
2019-09-14 13:16:23	~tiwesdaeg	Could not connect to start page:1965
2019-09-14 13:16:48	~tiwesdaeg	failed to look up address information: Name or service not known
2019-09-14 13:17:09	~tiwesdaeg	but if I type the letter for the menu item it works
2019-09-14 13:17:20	~tiwesdaeg	sort of
2019-09-14 13:18:41	~tiwesdaeg	so, it's crashing when I highlight a link and press enter
2019-09-14 13:20:36	julienXX	Hmm weird are you on 0.5.0 or master?
2019-09-14 13:20:52	julienXX	Last tag is supposed to be working well
2019-09-14 13:21:31	julienXX	I would open everything as long as the mime type is registered with an app
2019-09-14 13:21:31	~tiwesdaeg	0.5.0
2019-09-14 13:22:22	~tiwesdaeg	might be master
2019-09-14 13:22:32	~tiwesdaeg	whatever is the default on the git page
2019-09-14 13:23:11	~tiwesdaeg	let me try something
2019-09-14 13:24:01	julienXX	Oh you mean you are trying to click the items on the initial page? Those won’t work it’s just some kind of help.
2019-09-14 13:26:03	julienXX	I should disable clicking them
2019-09-14 13:29:51	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  exactly
2019-09-14 13:30:10	~tiwesdaeg	you can highlight the menu items and then hit enter
2019-09-14 13:44:24		jan6 has quit (RecvQ exceeded)
2019-09-14 13:44:31	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2019-09-14 14:53:14	julienXX	By the way if anybody wants to try Asuka but don’t want to bother with the Rust toolchain, you can ssh into asuka@typed-hole.org (password asuka) to test-drive the latest version.
2019-09-14 15:31:38	jan6	noice, that's cool
2019-09-14 15:32:42	jan6	we should have a wiki-like place to put for example that ^ in, so it's not lost to scrollback
2019-09-14 15:33:06	jan6	also kinda sad I lost my op, but I suppose it's not much of a deal...
2019-09-14 16:06:10	~tiwesdaeg	rust and I have a difficult relationship
2019-09-14 16:15:34	jan6	rus sux ;P
2019-09-14 16:15:37	jan6	*rust
2019-09-14 16:21:17	~tiwesdaeg	it's like fancy c++
2019-09-14 16:21:39	julienXX	It’s my preferred tool after Haskell  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-09-14 16:22:08	~tiwesdaeg	I used rust once to write a simple discordian calendar conversion program
2019-09-14 16:22:30	~tiwesdaeg	I was lost with all these Uwhatever integer types
2019-09-14 16:22:47	~tiwesdaeg	but finally mashed it in to a working program
2019-09-14 16:23:01	~tiwesdaeg	python is really the only thing I've seriously used
2019-09-14 16:28:56	julienXX	Yeah it’s not really beginner friendly but it’s a good mix of close to the metal like C++ with high level abstractions à la Haskell. A good productive hybrid tool IMO
2019-09-14 16:40:32	jan6	rust also is bad in the sense it would be great trouble to completely compile from scratch
2019-09-14 16:46:46	~tiwesdaeg	I compiled go from scratch the other day
2019-09-14 16:46:50	~tiwesdaeg	that was exciting
2019-09-14 16:47:07	~tiwesdaeg	when I was trying to get wireguard-go running
2019-09-14 16:53:32	jan6	Go is...eeh, syntax seems a little backwards for me ;P
2019-09-14 16:53:47	jan6	I suppose Go isn't bad, it's just weird, imho
2019-09-14 17:30:13	julienXX	Go is nice if you like programming like it’s 1973 :p
2019-09-14 18:19:55	jan6	heh, how so?
2019-09-14 18:19:59	jan6	also wdym?
2019-09-14 18:21:11	~tiwesdaeg	Gimme some o' that fortran
2019-09-14 18:22:27	jan6	what about COBOL ? ;P
2019-09-14 18:22:51	jan6	also kinda sad BASIC is so forgotten nowdays
2019-09-14 18:38:00	julienXX	jan6: only for loops, simple structs and manual error handling but that’s cool to replace C when you don’t need as much performance
2019-09-14 21:15:37	jan6	C is cool, but it's a once-upon-a-time-low-level high level language ;P
2019-09-14 21:17:39	@tomasino	brool copied their stoned.txt file to gemini
2019-09-14 21:17:44	@tomasino	and gemini just got 10X better
2019-09-14 21:26:51	~tiwesdaeg	Haha, I haven't read that recently
2019-09-14 21:27:20	@tomasino	looks great in av-98
2019-09-14 21:31:29	~tiwesdaeg	Link?
2019-09-14 21:32:20	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/brool
2019-09-14 22:49:22	julienXX	Very cool!
2019-09-14 22:52:06	@tomasino	indeed
2019-09-14 22:52:11	@tomasino	it gives me a big smile
2019-09-15 01:54:32	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-16 20:28:17	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-17 11:01:15	julienXX	Hey thanks for stopping by cat :)
2019-09-17 11:01:24	@tomasino	woo
2019-09-17 11:01:32	@tomasino	cat makes the world go round
2019-09-17 14:22:02	jan6	no, cat makes the world go meow
2019-09-17 15:32:22	~tiwesdaeg	yay, vacation over
2019-09-17 15:32:35	~tiwesdaeg	I can pay attention to the tildeverse again
2019-09-17 15:39:40	@ben	hihi tiwesdaeg
2019-09-17 15:39:50	~tiwesdaeg	how goes it?
2019-09-17 15:40:02	~tiwesdaeg	I'm trying to recover from "vacation"
2019-09-17 15:40:07	@ben	nuts
2019-09-17 15:40:31	@ben	tilde.club is back
2019-09-17 15:40:40	~tiwesdaeg	I took today off as well so I could recover a bit before going back to work
2019-09-17 15:40:52	~tiwesdaeg	tilde.club was one of the early tildes, right?
2019-09-17 15:42:15	@ben	first pubnix with the tilde moniker
2019-09-17 15:42:50	~tiwesdaeg	I remember visiting their webpage when I first learned about the tildeverse
2019-09-17 15:43:28	⚡	ben nod
2019-09-17 15:44:37	~tiwesdaeg	were they ever part of tilde.chat?
2019-09-17 15:48:44	@ben	we are now
2019-09-17 15:57:56	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  I'm having issues with installing asuka on netbsd
2019-09-17 15:58:12	~tiwesdaeg	ben:  are you running the tilde.club show?
2019-09-17 15:58:22	@ben	ya, deepend and i are the new admins
2019-09-17 15:58:26	~tiwesdaeg	neat
2019-09-17 15:58:42	~tiwesdaeg	just to add to all that tilde.team fun
2019-09-17 15:58:44	julienXX	tiwesdaeg: I have just tested on OpenBSD (my main machine) what kind of error do you get?
2019-09-17 15:59:05	~tiwesdaeg	Shared object "libncursesw.so.6" not found
2019-09-17 16:00:11	~tiwesdaeg	so, netbsd installs all packages in /usr/pkg
2019-09-17 16:00:15	julienXX	https://wiki.netbsd.org/curses_in_netbsd/ damn...
2019-09-17 16:00:46	~tiwesdaeg	in this case, /usr/pkg/lib/libncursesw.so.6
2019-09-17 16:02:23	@ben	yeah, figured i'd spread myself a little thinner lol
2019-09-17 16:02:30	~tiwesdaeg	I'm a bit fuzzy on how libs are accessed by an application
2019-09-17 16:03:56	~tiwesdaeg	is the current userbase still pretty active on tilde.club?
2019-09-17 16:05:53	~tiwesdaeg	nice, so a did ln -s to /usr/lib
2019-09-17 16:06:07	~tiwesdaeg	it runs, but unusable
2019-09-17 16:06:47	julienXX	tiwesdaeg: unusable in what way?
2019-09-17 16:07:36	~tiwesdaeg	~T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@~gemini://tilde.black/ T~\T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@[2;1H~T~PB~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T~@T
2019-09-17 16:07:41	~tiwesdaeg	top line looks like that
2019-09-17 16:08:27	julienXX	maybe you coult try to change your locale to an UTF8 one if that's not the case
2019-09-17 16:10:41	~tiwesdaeg	nope
2019-09-17 16:10:47	~tiwesdaeg	didn't change it
2019-09-17 16:12:26	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  https://imgur.com/FImpQr2
2019-09-17 16:12:55	julienXX	fancy
2019-09-17 16:13:06	~tiwesdaeg	yeah
2019-09-17 16:13:20	~tiwesdaeg	so, the commands work and I can enter a url
2019-09-17 16:13:52	julienXX	I've never used NetBSD but I can try in a VM when I get some time. It's clearly an issue with NCurses, not with Asuka specifically.
2019-09-17 16:13:57	~tiwesdaeg	could this be due to my weird symbolic link for the lib?
2019-09-17 16:14:28	julienXX	Seems to me NetBSD support for curses apps is not great
2019-09-17 16:14:38	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, which is kind of weird
2019-09-17 16:14:49	julienXX	if it compiled I guess it found what it needed code-wise.
2019-09-17 16:15:45	julienXX	so the link should be okay. I would try to change the terminal settings to see if it improves things
2019-09-17 16:16:21	~tiwesdaeg	it works fine in the same terminal locally
2019-09-17 16:16:26	@ben	tiwesdaeg: http://tilde.club/~delfuego/tilde.24h.html
2019-09-17 16:17:08	~tiwesdaeg	that's a lot of users just updating in the last day
2019-09-17 16:17:24	~tiwesdaeg	did you move the everything over to your massive server?
2019-09-17 16:17:56	~tiwesdaeg	also, at this point, lets just kill the old dragonflybsd vm and free up all the resources
2019-09-17 16:18:18	@ben	ok i'll kill the old vm
2019-09-17 16:18:28	@ben	no, ~club is on deepend's server
2019-09-17 16:18:33	julienXX	tiwesdaeg: so try to fiddle with env variables on the remote system
2019-09-17 16:18:51	@ben	i am planning on moving to an ovh box when my current subscription runs out in january
2019-09-17 16:19:00	@ben	upgrading from soyoustart to ovh proper
2019-09-17 16:20:27	julienXX	tiwesdaeg: here is what I have on a working system https://www.pastiebin.com/5d8107acf128d if that can help
2019-09-17 16:22:16	~tiwesdaeg	https://www.pastiebin.com/5d81082e26344
2019-09-17 16:22:18	~tiwesdaeg	my current
2019-09-17 16:22:41	~tiwesdaeg	I'll try LC_ALL
2019-09-17 16:23:47	~tiwesdaeg	same
2019-09-17 16:23:49	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2019-09-17 16:30:47	julienXX	perhaps rm -rf target and recompile to have the new vars taken into account during compilation
2019-09-17 16:31:31	~tiwesdaeg	sure
2019-09-17 16:50:02	julienXX	tiwesdaeg: you can try the termion-backend branch otherwise which uses another backend that might be better (but does not support windows)
2019-09-17 17:15:51	~tiwesdaeg	it's slowly compiling still
2019-09-17 17:47:33	julienXX	Yeah takes about 15min on my Pi Zero that hosts typed-hole.org Gemini stuff
2019-09-17 19:08:12	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  even with locale updated, recompile results in the same issue
2019-09-17 19:10:35	julienXX	Well if you have some time you could try the branch I mentioned earlier otherwise I’ll try in a VM to see what I can find. Not supporting NetBSD would be a bummer
2019-09-17 19:11:49	~tiwesdaeg	git checkout termion-backend?
2019-09-17 19:15:38	~tiwesdaeg	I just pulled it from the website and am building now
2019-09-17 19:40:11		smoerk has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2019-09-17 19:42:11	julienXX	Yes checkout termion-backend, not sure it will improve things but it might be more compatible with NetBSD
2019-09-17 19:51:49	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-17 20:05:44		smoerk has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2019-09-17 20:30:13	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-17 21:36:12		julienXX has quit (Connection closed)
2019-09-17 21:38:34	▬▬▶	julienXX has joined #gemini
2019-09-17 21:51:14		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2019-09-18 00:59:19	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-18 02:20:31	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  nogo on the termion-backend branch
2019-09-18 13:00:10	julienXX	tiwesdaeg: did a test on a fresh netbsd 8.1 VM and I get the garbage screen too.
2019-09-18 13:00:33	~tiwesdaeg	it's gotta be netbsd's weird ncurses
2019-09-18 13:01:07	~tiwesdaeg	AV-98 does work, so there is at least one gemini browser running on tilde.pink
2019-09-18 13:01:32	jan6	don't use N-curses then? ;p
2019-09-18 13:01:50	~tiwesdaeg	it's so pretty though
2019-09-18 13:02:14	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  have you thought about using a different color background for popup windows?
2019-09-18 13:02:28	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure the proper terminology for ncurses
2019-09-18 13:03:26	jan6	there are other curses, and non-cursing libraries and stuff
2019-09-18 13:03:58	@tomasino	so much cursing
2019-09-18 13:04:04	@tomasino	~black has a few gemini holes now
2019-09-18 13:04:17	@tomasino	well, it's got my "hey, gemini is available" post, and a couple stoners
2019-09-18 13:04:20	julienXX	not really those are default colors, I'm not even sure of how much customization I can make regarding colors. I guess everything is possible but I should invest more time learning ncurses
2019-09-18 13:04:25	@tomasino	but i say that's all good
2019-09-18 13:05:58	~tiwesdaeg	the mailing list seemed to taper off again
2019-09-18 13:06:55	~tiwesdaeg	I'm kinda curious as to where the gemini markdown language will end up
2019-09-18 13:09:46	jan6	html
2019-09-18 13:09:56	julienXX	I guess it will have to wait for someone starting a GUI client to see the eventual pain points
2019-09-18 13:10:24	⚡	jan6 supposes it to be a nice exercise
2019-09-18 13:10:30	jan6	fltk ftw!
2019-09-18 13:10:42	julienXX	returning a text/markdown mime type should be enough if you ask me
2019-09-18 13:10:51	julienXX	and the client deals with it
2019-09-18 13:11:22	julienXX	or not in the case of my client :D
2019-09-18 13:12:34	~tiwesdaeg	I really would like to try doing some sort of gui client, but I just feel like my programming skills are lacking
2019-09-18 13:12:47	jan6	me too
2019-09-18 13:12:56	jan6	but you never learn if you don't try
2019-09-18 13:13:02	~tiwesdaeg	what would be a good cross platform language for it?
2019-09-18 13:13:05	julienXX	see it as a good way to improve
2019-09-18 13:13:14	jan6	fltk should be good enough toolkit imho
2019-09-18 13:13:19	~tiwesdaeg	python is the only one I'm ok at
2019-09-18 13:13:20	julienXX	python + gtk could be nice
2019-09-18 13:13:21	jan6	and C for the core language
2019-09-18 13:13:39	jan6	then maybe python FFI to the core
2019-09-18 13:14:06	jan6	or lua
2019-09-18 13:14:06	~tiwesdaeg	any helpful websites on how to use gtk with a python program?
2019-09-18 13:14:59	jan6	löve2d bundle of lua works on linux, android, windows, mac, maybe some others
2019-09-18 13:15:41	julienXX	tiwesdaeg: https://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
2019-09-18 13:15:49	jan6	*search engine of yourbchoice* is your friend
2019-09-18 13:16:02	~tiwesdaeg	there are often many options
2019-09-18 13:16:20	~tiwesdaeg	I'll look in to it
2019-09-18 13:16:46	~tiwesdaeg	I wonder if I could make it gopher/gemini
2019-09-18 13:17:20	jan6	start with one, of course
2019-09-18 13:17:30	jan6	but sure you can
2019-09-18 13:18:21	julienXX	gemini will be a bit harder because of TLS
2019-09-18 13:18:29	jan6	I'd like if all gemini browsers also supported gopher in some capacity too, at least by executong external programs if nothing else
2019-09-18 13:18:46	jan6	right now they tend to just freeze at gopher links
2019-09-18 13:20:28	julienXX	we just need gemini support in lynx and there you have a universal client
2019-09-18 13:23:19	@tomasino	av-98 and vf-1 are very similar code bases. I wouldn't be surprised to see solderpunk make a super-set 
2019-09-18 13:23:48	@tomasino	if it just changed color or something to indicated when you were TLS protected vs not, that'd be great
2019-09-18 13:24:03	@tomasino	gopher over TLS or gemini get one color, gopher in plain text another
2019-09-18 13:24:11	@tomasino	bonus if tor got a 3rd
2019-09-18 13:28:27	julienXX	that would be super nice!
2019-09-18 13:28:56	jan6	what about i2p? ;p
2019-09-18 13:30:01	~tiwesdaeg	installing pygobject
2019-09-18 13:30:29	jan6	qt > gtk, btw ;p
2019-09-18 13:30:40	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/phlog/20190918-av-98-and-vf-1-daydream
2019-09-18 13:34:15	~tiwesdaeg	I use gnome the majority of the time
2019-09-18 13:37:04	jan6	then sure, for you
2019-09-18 13:40:07	mhj	Good day geminers, what have y'all recently added to your gemini gems recently?
2019-09-18 13:41:56	julienXX	Hello mhj, I added a basic git browsing capability
2019-09-18 13:42:40	mhj	yo julienXX, that's cool. :D I can see that being pretty useful!
2019-09-18 13:43:08	mhj	I use AV-98 to browse the gemspace
2019-09-18 13:45:30	mhj	Still working on my gemini server at gemini://earthlight.xyz
2019-09-18 13:46:45	julienXX	I wanted to add some kind of old-school webring for the gemini-space but haven't started anything yet.
2019-09-18 13:47:20	mhj	I think that's a good idea
2019-09-18 13:58:03	~tiwesdaeg	work keeps interfering with my tilde time
2019-09-18 14:07:55	@tomasino	ooh, gemspace is a nice name
2019-09-18 14:26:27	~tiwesdaeg	a little nicer than gopherhole
2019-09-18 14:26:59	@tomasino	burrows are nice
2019-09-18 14:27:14	@tomasino	or even gopher dens
2019-09-18 14:55:41	mhj	I like the term gemspace because it conjures up a bazarre or like mining site full of gems lol
2019-09-18 14:55:58	@tomasino	yeah
2019-09-18 14:56:41	mhj	*bazaar
2019-09-18 15:04:22	jan6	I don't exactly like gemspace, because it's too close to ruby gems ;P
2019-09-18 15:04:29	jan6	but it's not too bad of a name
2019-09-18 15:11:39	~tiwesdaeg	might as well just call it janspace
2019-09-18 15:18:22	@tomasino	agreed
2019-09-18 15:18:26	@tomasino	janspace
2019-09-18 15:18:48	julienXX	janhole maybe?
2019-09-18 15:19:54	@tomasino	oh, that is much less desirable
2019-09-18 15:19:54	@tomasino	haha
2019-09-18 15:46:00	jan6	lol
2019-09-18 15:46:10	jan6	janspace would be good if I actually had any content
2019-09-18 15:46:24	@tomasino	step 1: make stuff
2019-09-18 15:46:28	@tomasino	step 2: take over the world
2019-09-18 15:46:35	jan6	I still don't know anything about it, other than the declaration what it's trying to do
2019-09-18 15:46:46	jan6	step 0: be born
2019-09-18 15:47:18	jan6	step 3 is the most problematic part tho, what to do with the world, also 4, how to keep the world ;P
2019-09-18 15:57:27	jan6	spacespace > any other space
2019-09-19 12:16:40	~tiwesdaeg	man, gui programming has a learning curve
2019-09-19 12:49:12	@tomasino	this is why electron is so popular
2019-09-19 13:02:09	~tiwesdaeg	but I don't wanna
2019-09-19 13:02:37	~tiwesdaeg	I was playing with glade, but it's still not simple
2019-09-19 15:03:20	mhj	If only Electron and Oracle Java could come together, they could make the ultimate chat client that only takes over 2 GB to use
2019-09-19 15:10:17	jan6	*4gb
2019-09-19 15:10:51	jan6	also I wonder how much of the java's problems are jvm and how much are java itself
2019-09-19 15:11:30	@tomasino	java went deep and hard on all the stuff that annoyed me about C++ over C. I turn my nose up at it still
2019-09-19 15:11:54	@tomasino	interface all the things! Even things that there will only ever be one of
2019-09-19 15:12:05	@tomasino	meh
2019-09-19 16:01:34	jan6	lol
2019-09-19 16:01:49	jan6	jvm is cool, java is....well...java
2019-09-19 16:03:05	jan6	https://pics.onsizzle.com/how-many-layers-of-abstraction-are-you-on-you-are-3409103.png
2019-09-19 16:07:45	jan6	http://www.foundery.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/sherwin-2.jpg
2019-09-19 16:07:47	jan6	that too
2019-09-19 16:10:52	jan6	https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED793/5b4f049b3a976.jpeg
2019-09-19 16:10:55	jan6	enough java
2019-09-19 16:14:08	jan6	also unrelated https://i.imgur.com/gh2H9id.jpg
2019-09-19 16:14:17	⚡	jan6 the link-man
2019-09-19 19:31:05	@tomasino	janspace
2019-09-19 19:33:24	jan6	sure ;P
2019-09-19 22:50:29	cat	aside from the few on ~black, is there anyone producing content for gemini that isn't about gemini?
2019-09-19 23:09:46	@tomasino	Not that I've seen
2019-09-19 23:58:29	cat	i guess it's still hella early days
2019-09-20 00:00:15		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 00:05:47	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 01:07:40		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 01:10:29	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 09:25:56		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 09:29:29	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 09:40:54		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 09:44:06	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 12:21:15		mhj has quit (Connection closed)
2019-09-20 12:22:28	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 12:24:04		smoerk has quit (Connection closed)
2019-09-20 12:24:44	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 12:39:04		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2019-09-20 12:39:47	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 12:42:52		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2019-09-20 12:43:32	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 13:12:15		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 13:15:26	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 13:22:02		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 13:33:17	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 13:53:10		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 13:56:17	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 14:57:44		tiwesdaeg has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 15:03:24	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 15:03:24	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2019-09-20 15:56:29	jan6	I could produce content, if I had anything to produce and if I knew how to ;PO
2019-09-20 15:56:31	jan6	P;
2019-09-20 16:00:21	~tiwesdaeg	jan6:  create public_gemini on your tilde.pink account
2019-09-20 16:00:30	~tiwesdaeg	create a file called index.gmi in there
2019-09-20 16:00:36	~tiwesdaeg	fill it with crap
2019-09-20 16:01:06	~tiwesdaeg	if you want to link to some other page or gemini site, links work like this
2019-09-20 16:01:40	~tiwesdaeg	=> gemini://tilde.pink/~tiwesdaeg/ Some super cool guy's gemspace!
2019-09-20 16:02:33	~tiwesdaeg	you can view it from tilde pink with 'av98'
2019-09-20 16:06:29	~tiwesdaeg	also, space or tab works between the url and the label/title
2019-09-20 16:06:38	~tiwesdaeg	you can make all your links nice and even
2019-09-20 16:06:43		mhj has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2019-09-20 16:08:07	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 16:22:20		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 16:37:16	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 16:51:10		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-20 17:11:28	jan6	how long till it shows up?
2019-09-20 17:20:56	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-20 17:26:41	jan6	k on now
2019-09-20 21:16:45	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I think the cron runs every 15 minutes or so
2019-09-20 21:34:16	⚡	jan6 ought to figure out fun uses of socat, eventually...eventually...
2019-09-20 21:36:01	jan6	semi-wrong channel
2019-09-21 01:36:46	mhj	Hi geminars from planet X
2019-09-21 03:13:34	~tiwesdaeg	yo
2019-09-21 17:22:20	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-09-21 17:22:30	creme	hi
2019-09-21 18:10:45	~tiwesdaeg	hey there creme
2019-09-21 18:11:38	⚡	jan6 shrugs off the op-loss and procrastinates despite being busy
2019-09-21 18:35:50	creme	yeah i have now an running gemini server =)
2019-09-21 18:35:55	creme	with jetforce
2019-09-21 18:37:31	mhj	Ooh sweet
2019-09-21 18:37:55	mhj	Do you have a domain or anything for it yet?
2019-09-21 18:38:01	mhj	Mine is at earthlight.xyz
2019-09-21 18:38:30	creme	gemini://envs.net
2019-09-21 18:38:48	⚡	mhj fires up AV-98
2019-09-21 18:39:12	creme	i have the gemini client av98 too =)
2019-09-21 18:39:14	creme	so nice
2019-09-21 18:40:09	@ben	gemini://tilde.team
2019-09-21 18:40:11	mhj	Yeah, it makes browsing things so familier
2019-09-21 18:40:24	creme	ben o/
2019-09-21 18:40:32	@ben	hi
2019-09-21 18:40:39	creme	yeah really. also vf-1 for gopher
2019-09-21 18:42:16	⚡	jan6 wonders if gemini vhosts or such would be possible
2019-09-21 18:45:02	@ben	probably
2019-09-21 18:52:32	creme	Is there an online cheatsheet like I write a .gmi?
2019-09-21 18:53:19	jan6	well, the specs are available over gopher-only afaik
2019-09-21 18:53:46	jan6	all i know so far is
2019-09-21 18:53:49	jan6	19:01 <~tiwesdaeg> if you want to link to some other page or gemini site, links work like this
2019-09-21 18:53:49	jan6	19:01 <~tiwesdaeg> => gemini://tilde.pink/~tiwesdaeg/ Some super cool guy's gemspace!
2019-09-21 18:53:57	jan6	and rest is plaintext?
2019-09-21 18:57:10	creme	or a example index.gmi
2019-09-21 18:58:09	creme	i like to see how to do a shell cmd or create a link ..
2019-09-21 19:03:35	jan6	"do a shell cmd"?
2019-09-21 19:03:44	jan6	link I just pasted
2019-09-21 19:04:12	jan6	like 5 min before you asked, and 1 min after you asked for cheatsheet, lol
2019-09-21 19:06:21	creme	"do a shell cmd"?
2019-09-21 19:06:43	creme	^^ i need to call 'foglet'
2019-09-21 19:06:56	creme	or include a static file
2019-09-21 19:07:04	creme	Is that possible?
2019-09-21 19:07:24	creme	s/foglet/figlet/
2019-09-21 19:13:37	creme	I build a script best to create the .gmi file.
2019-09-21 19:19:31	jan6	well, you sure can just "figlet asd >index.gmi" if you want
2019-09-21 19:19:55	jan6	but idk if cgi or such works, would hope it will, eventually
2019-09-21 19:32:21	~tiwesdaeg	creme, jetforce does support CGI scripts
2019-09-21 19:32:58	~tiwesdaeg	I don't know if there is support yet for running CGI inside a regular Gemini file
2019-09-21 19:34:35	creme	no problem and thanks for help!
2019-09-21 19:34:52	creme	i build a script to create my index.gmi ;=
2019-09-21 19:34:54	creme	;)
2019-09-21 19:38:31	jan6	tiwesdaeg: does it? I tried navigating to the cgi scripts in your folder but it only displayed the contents, copied to my folder and even made into executable (and fixed one's shebang line) but still nada
2019-09-21 19:40:21	jan6	even made a cgi-bin dir just in case, but didn't help
2019-09-21 19:41:40	@tomasino	hiya all
2019-09-21 19:41:57	@tomasino	might i direct your attention to the latest phlog post on gopher.black for relevant gemini info
2019-09-21 19:42:01	jan6	hai
2019-09-21 19:42:09	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/phlog/20190921-av-98-gopher-proxy-on-gopher-black
2019-09-21 19:43:15	jan6	not on gemini, still ;P
2019-09-21 19:43:33	@tomasino	not yet
2019-09-21 19:43:38	@tomasino	i may write something on ~black
2019-09-21 19:43:43	@tomasino	but my main platform is gopher
2019-09-21 19:43:56	@tomasino	i actually have to write up 2 web blog posts tonight
2019-09-21 19:44:04	@tomasino	updates for the family on the expat adventures
2019-09-21 19:44:16	@tomasino	took my son on his first ever hike and topped his first ever mountain
2019-09-21 19:45:48	jan6	real mountain, or "technically just a tall hill we call mountain here"? ;P
2019-09-21 19:46:02	jan6	probably latter, but still cool
2019-09-21 19:51:04	@tomasino	real mountain
2019-09-21 19:58:42	jan6	kewl
2019-09-21 20:03:59	~tiwesdaeg	jan6:  you have to specify a specific cgi folder
2019-09-21 20:04:10	~tiwesdaeg	default is gemini-root/cgi-bin
2019-09-21 20:04:29	jan6	well, how'd I do it on ~pink for example, then?
2019-09-21 20:04:44	jan6	I even made a cgi-bin in my own folder, didn't seem to help
2019-09-21 20:04:54	~tiwesdaeg	so, I think for users to execute cgi scripts, we'd have to figure out some sort of symbolically linked shared folder I guess
2019-09-21 20:05:39	~tiwesdaeg	I don't know yet
2019-09-21 20:05:56	~tiwesdaeg	I'd prefer the server allowing cgi in any sub folder
2019-09-21 20:06:16	~tiwesdaeg	I can try making it the gemini root and seeing if it works
2019-09-21 20:13:51	~tiwesdaeg	it doesn't look like I can set cgi-bin directly to the gemini root
2019-09-21 20:38:47	jan6	too bad it doesn't even work in my own cgi-bin or such
2019-09-21 20:39:00	jan6	and linking everyone's cgi together is....probably a very bad idea
2019-09-21 21:11:00	creme	can i create in .gmi a link to a https: or gopher: url?
2019-09-21 21:11:24	@tomasino	yep
2019-09-21 21:11:26	creme	i try to use: => https://xyz.foo link to https site
2019-09-21 21:11:29	@tomasino	but the client may not support it
2019-09-21 21:11:31	@tomasino	or it may
2019-09-21 21:11:47	creme	i use av98
2019-09-21 21:12:09	@tomasino	then if you link to gopher it will work only if you also point your gopher_proxy to a gopher to gemini proxy
2019-09-21 21:12:22	@tomasino	my phlog posting a little ways up in the log has info on how
2019-09-21 21:12:41	@tomasino	as for https, i forget if he's got av-98 set to launch a browser or not
2019-09-21 21:15:33	creme	okay i try to understand. i can not directly set a gopher url rather i use a link to the gopherproxy (https) url or to agena url?
2019-09-21 21:16:02	creme	and to use https i need to set a browser in av98
2019-09-21 21:16:09	@tomasino	you can point to a gopher URL in your .gmi file, but since many clients are so new not many have accounted for how to browse both
2019-09-21 21:16:19	@tomasino	bombadillo i think will have both in its new version
2019-09-21 21:16:29	@tomasino	and av-98 gets around it by using a proxy called agena
2019-09-21 21:16:43	@tomasino	i'm offering a public agena server on gopher.black on port 1965
2019-09-21 21:17:10	@tomasino	i'm not sure about the state of https in av98. I can check in abit but i've got another thing in progress at the moment
2019-09-21 21:20:44	creme	okay thanks for the infos tomasino
2019-09-21 21:21:41	creme	can you pls pastebin me your agena.service file? =)
2019-09-21 21:21:56	creme	i will try to setup this gopher-gemini proxy =)
2019-09-21 21:22:42	@tomasino	i haven't made a service for it just yet. It's running interactively in a tmux pane. Solderpunk still has a lot of work left on agena, so I'm watching errors to help him
2019-09-21 21:23:21	creme	okay .. maybe I'll wait for something else;)
2019-09-21 21:23:59	creme	I should anyway first write a small user help page for gemini use.
2019-09-21 21:24:24	creme	my gemini page is running now I think like she should :)
2019-09-22 22:08:37	▬▬▶	ffog has joined #gemini
2019-09-25 18:30:30		creme has quit (Connection closed)
2019-09-25 18:30:47	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-09-25 18:55:09		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2019-09-25 19:01:36	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2019-09-25 19:04:15		ben has quit (Connection closed)
2019-09-25 19:06:51	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2019-09-25 19:42:46		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-25 19:43:05	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-09-25 19:53:06		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-25 19:53:25	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-09-25 22:55:43	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2019-09-26 03:57:19	▬▬▶	ffog_ has joined #gemini
2019-09-26 03:57:30		ffog has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2019-09-26 07:15:00		mhj has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2019-09-26 07:43:08	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-26 12:19:55		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2019-09-26 12:19:57	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-26 14:30:42		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2019-09-26 14:32:14	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2019-09-26 21:06:02		lel has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-26 21:06:02		creme has quit (Connection closed)
2019-09-26 21:06:23	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-09-26 21:06:53	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2019-09-27 01:34:07		mhj has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2019-09-27 03:33:02	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-09-27 06:27:34	ℹ 	ffog_ is now known as ffog
2019-09-27 19:12:32	▬▬▶	emerson has joined #gemini
2019-09-28 11:07:25		smoerk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-28 11:08:08	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-29 11:21:02		lel has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-29 11:21:02		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-29 11:21:22	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-09-29 11:22:03	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2019-09-29 11:23:21		lel has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-29 11:23:21		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-29 11:23:38	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-09-29 11:24:22	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2019-09-29 12:02:02		lel has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-29 12:02:02		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-29 12:02:32	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-09-29 12:03:09	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2019-09-29 14:19:22		smoerk has quit (Connection closed)
2019-09-29 14:19:26	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-29 14:49:03		ffog has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2019-09-29 15:08:08	▬▬▶	ffog has joined #gemini
2019-09-30 07:35:26		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-30 07:35:27		lel has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-09-30 07:35:46	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-09-30 07:36:22	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2019-09-30 13:11:06		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2019-09-30 13:11:11	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2019-09-30 22:06:52	ℹ 	You are now known as tomasino--
2019-09-30 22:07:25	ℹ 	You are now known as tomasino
2019-10-01 00:25:06	~tiwesdaeg	I am totally digging sloum's bombadillo browser for gemini/gopher
2019-10-01 00:28:45	~tiwesdaeg	It puts the url at the top and does both gemini and gopher
2019-10-01 00:28:54	~tiwesdaeg	thought I checked out the tofu branch for that
2019-10-01 00:29:03	~tiwesdaeg	I think the current release is gopher only
2019-10-01 00:29:10	mhj	I've tried it before, it is really awesome indeed
2019-10-01 00:29:42	mhj	He runs it on colorfield, so I just use it from there
2019-10-01 00:29:51	mhj	I think he's a master in minimalism :D
2019-10-01 00:30:58	~tiwesdaeg	I had to read the help file to get the screen to scroll, since I kept trying to use the arrow keys ;P
2019-10-01 00:32:42	mhj	It uses vi keys right?
2019-10-01 00:34:38	~tiwesdaeg	j and k for up and down
2019-10-01 00:34:55	~tiwesdaeg	single g and G for top of page and bottom
2019-10-01 00:35:06	mhj	Ah
2019-10-01 00:35:27	~tiwesdaeg	you can just type :help and scroll through the whole help file
2019-10-01 00:36:30	~tiwesdaeg	I like the way it handles bookmarks as well
2019-10-01 00:39:02	mhj	Ooh
2019-10-01 00:39:16	mhj	I didn't bookmark anything so I don't know how well it handles that
2019-10-01 02:44:24		mhj has quit (hub.tilde.chat your.tilde.chat)
2019-10-01 02:44:52	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2019-10-01 11:05:02	@tomasino	It's pretty nice and different
2019-10-01 15:32:27	mhj	yo gemstars
2019-10-01 15:38:50	jan6	aye, pi-rate gemstah
2019-10-01 15:47:22	mhj	lol
2019-10-01 18:11:29	julienXX	A preview of the next Asuka release https://mastodon.sdf.org/@julienxx/102888107065303015 with somewhat nice colors and the ability to open web/gopher links and any file your OS can open.
2019-10-01 18:18:52	~tiwesdaeg	yay!
2019-10-01 18:19:11	~tiwesdaeg	thanks julienXX, I'll try it out
2019-10-01 18:20:09	julienXX	Not yet released, I have quite a bit of cleanup to do before :)
2019-10-01 20:44:48	mhj	Ooh sweet
2019-10-02 08:54:22	▬▬▶	webchatter has joined #gemini
2019-10-02 09:28:55		webchatter has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2019-10-02 15:47:52	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  I just compiled the newer release of asuka
2019-10-02 15:48:17	~tiwesdaeg	I like the link colors
2019-10-02 15:48:50	~tiwesdaeg	one thing I noticed was that the line highlight is behaving differently
2019-10-02 15:49:26	~tiwesdaeg	previously, when you scroll to a link, it would highlight the whole link, but now it only highlights the area past the link
2019-10-02 15:49:39	~tiwesdaeg	for regular text, it's behaving like the last version
2019-10-02 15:51:28	julienXX	Cool, yes that's an issue with the NCurses lib I use I think. No fix yet but I'm searching.
2019-10-04 09:12:28		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-10-04 09:12:28		lel has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2019-10-04 09:12:52	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2019-10-04 09:13:19	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-07 10:11:55	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-01-07 10:11:55	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini"
2020-01-07 10:11:55	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:04:13
2020-01-07 10:11:55	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 13 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normals)
2020-01-07 10:11:57	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-01-07 13:53:33	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-01-07 13:53:50	bacterio	o/
2020-01-07 13:54:14	bacterio	trying to download the konpeito mixtape zip with av98
2020-01-07 13:54:38	~tiwesdaeg	is it giving you issues?
2020-01-07 13:54:45	bacterio	yep
2020-01-07 13:54:59	~tiwesdaeg	let me try
2020-01-07 13:55:06	bacterio	by default it tries to use xdg-open
2020-01-07 13:55:28	bacterio	i've tried to set up wget as a handler
2020-01-07 13:55:39	bacterio	and i got this error
2020-01-07 13:55:55	bacterio	/tmp/tmp7ketnrj0: Scheme missing.
2020-01-07 13:56:16	bacterio	probably because wget doesn't understand gemini:// right?
2020-01-07 13:56:32	bacterio	so, not sure whats the proper way to download it
2020-01-07 13:56:56	bacterio	btw, tiwesdaeg, i'm doing this from tilde.pink
2020-01-07 13:57:02	~tiwesdaeg	ahhh
2020-01-07 13:57:20	~tiwesdaeg	you're trying to store it there, not locally on your computer?
2020-01-07 13:57:48	bacterio	yep
2020-01-07 13:58:16	bacterio	i don't have av98 in my computer
2020-01-07 13:58:39	bacterio	i can install it, tho
2020-01-07 13:59:00	bacterio	this is more about understanding how gemini/av98 works
2020-01-07 13:59:06	~tiwesdaeg	bombadillo doesn't like the site because the cert is expired
2020-01-07 13:59:16	bacterio	oh, i tried that too
2020-01-07 13:59:22	bacterio	yep, same error
2020-01-07 13:59:31	bacterio	cert expired
2020-01-07 14:01:13	~tiwesdaeg	I let cat know the other day
2020-01-07 14:02:07	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not super familiar with av98
2020-01-07 14:02:24	~tiwesdaeg	let me see if I can figure out how to get it to download
2020-01-07 14:05:37	bacterio	this is what i've used to set the handler
2020-01-07 14:05:40	bacterio	handler application/zip wget %s
2020-01-07 14:07:22	tomasino	you can dig up the vf-1 repo from solderpunk on github
2020-01-07 14:07:29	tomasino	the readme for that pretty much applies to av98
2020-01-07 14:09:13	~tiwesdaeg	all the handlers expect you to be running a gui
2020-01-07 14:11:07	~tiwesdaeg	I tried commenting out the handlers for audio and now it's defaulting to xdg-open
2020-01-07 14:13:04	bacterio	tomasino, i got the syntax for the handler from vf1
2020-01-07 14:17:11	~tiwesdaeg	do either even support downloading as an option?
2020-01-07 14:17:34	~tiwesdaeg	I know I downloaded the first mix tape with bombadillo when the cert was working
2020-01-07 14:20:18	bacterio	ok
2020-01-07 14:20:45	bacterio	i've copied  /tmp/tmp7ketnrj0 to ~/konpeito.zip
2020-01-07 14:20:55	bacterio	and it works
2020-01-07 14:21:10	tomasino	huzzah
2020-01-07 14:21:12	bacterio	i can unzip it and the files are there
2020-01-07 14:21:38	bacterio	so the handler seems to work
2020-01-07 14:22:11	bacterio	and wget downloads the file correctly
2020-01-07 14:22:51	tomasino	handler text/plain /usr/bin/fold -sw 80 "%s" | /usr/games/lolcat -f
2020-01-07 14:22:54	tomasino	for fun & profit
2020-01-07 14:24:06	~tiwesdaeg	hahah
2020-01-07 14:24:43	bacterio	:)
2020-01-07 14:27:04	bacterio	seeems like te proble is moving and renaming the temp file...
2020-01-07 14:27:15	bacterio	s/ble/blem
2020-01-07 14:29:13	~tiwesdaeg	asuka was the other console gemini browser I could get running
2020-01-07 14:29:18	~tiwesdaeg	just not on netbsd
2020-01-07 14:30:36	bacterio	this works well enough for me, now that i know i can download files
2020-01-07 14:30:57	bacterio	but i still don't understand the problem and not sure how to debug it
2020-01-07 14:33:42	tomasino	i wonder if there's other variables available to the handlers in av98. in vf-1 there isn't a filename or anything, but gemini gives more info
2020-01-07 14:35:32	~tiwesdaeg	it's gotta be something in a python library
2020-01-07 14:36:02	~tiwesdaeg	when the cert is working again, bombadillo works well at downloading mp3s
2020-01-07 14:47:13	bacterio	handler application/zip unzip %s
2020-01-07 14:47:17	bacterio	works
2020-01-07 14:47:26	bacterio	the files get extracted
2020-01-07 14:47:58	bacterio	seems like av98 downloads the file to tmp before is passed to the handler
2020-01-07 14:48:49	~tiwesdaeg	it does appear to wait a hot minute for the larger file before responding
2020-01-07 14:49:35	bacterio	i think is bc is downloading it
2020-01-07 14:50:19	bacterio	i've tried wget and curl as handlers and the tmp file is created and the i got the error
2020-01-07 14:50:20	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-01-07 14:50:37	bacterio	s/the/then
2020-01-07 14:51:39	~tiwesdaeg	maybe the mv command?
2020-01-07 14:54:39	bacterio	yep, i just tried
2020-01-07 14:55:03	bacterio	 handler application/zip cp %s kon.zip
2020-01-07 14:55:23	bacterio	and it worked just fine
2020-01-07 14:55:59	~tiwesdaeg	mv wouldn't leave the file in tmp
2020-01-07 14:56:14	bacterio	sure
2020-01-07 14:56:31	bacterio	thats a good thing with files this size
2020-01-07 14:56:33	bacterio	:)
2020-01-07 14:57:06	bacterio	btw, i hope i'm not abusing pink downloading this thing there
2020-01-07 15:02:25	~tiwesdaeg	go for it
2020-01-07 15:03:46	bacterio	nice
2020-01-07 15:04:52	~tiwesdaeg	we have about 15gb of free space currently
2020-01-07 15:05:38	~tiwesdaeg	if tilde.pink does grow beyond that, I'll probably have to give in and move on to a bigger vps
2020-01-07 15:21:25	ben	i can grow the disk if you need btw
2020-01-07 15:47:35	bacterio	tea
2020-01-07 15:47:38	bacterio	oops
2020-01-07 15:53:47	~tiwesdaeg	I don't want to use up too much of your resources
2020-01-07 15:55:18	ben	i've got room on this new server
2020-01-07 15:55:50	~tiwesdaeg	all migrations complete?
2020-01-07 15:56:05	ben	yeah
2020-01-07 15:58:29	~tiwesdaeg	awesome, any major hurdles?
2020-01-07 15:59:18	ben	just slow disk io
2020-01-07 15:59:28	ben	took longer than expected but it all worked fine
2020-01-07 17:20:11		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-07 17:20:53	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-07 17:26:52		smoerk has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-01-07 17:27:33	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-07 17:29:58		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-07 17:30:41	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-07 17:32:48		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-07 17:33:32	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-07 17:45:41		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-07 17:46:25	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-07 17:54:13		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-07 17:54:58	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-08 00:53:26	cat	konpeito.media should have a proper cert now, if someone wants to test?
2020-01-08 00:58:26	@tomasino	Woo
2020-01-08 05:29:57	bacterio	just tested. works wit bombadillo and can download the tapes.
2020-01-08 05:30:03	bacterio	thanks cat!
2020-01-08 05:36:42	cat	ayyy, nice. thanks for confirming
2020-01-08 06:36:19	bacterio	np, thank you for putting out the mixtapes
2020-01-08 07:32:42	cat	it's my pleasure :3
2020-01-10 01:23:18		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-10 18:28:33	julienXX	tiwesdaeg: do you happen to have the latest icon you made as svg?
2020-01-10 20:11:30	~tiwesdaeg	I sure do
2020-01-10 20:12:27	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  the one where the stars are the same color as the symbol looks the best small
2020-01-10 20:13:54	julienXX	Yes! If you can send me a link that would be great, I want to make a first build with an icon :)
2020-01-10 20:16:56	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/EiY.svg
2020-01-10 20:20:41	julienXX	Perfect! Thanks a lot!
2020-01-10 20:20:51	~tiwesdaeg	no problem
2020-01-11 12:55:43		lel has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-01-11 12:55:43		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-01-11 12:56:45	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-11 12:57:14	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-01-11 13:39:17	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-11 16:21:49	julienXX	tiwesdaeg: looking good https://imgur.com/a/ZGu2BlF
2020-01-11 16:24:50	~tiwesdaeg	Beautiful
2020-01-11 16:25:22	~tiwesdaeg	I had no issues making an icns file for macos either when I packaged it as an app
2020-01-11 17:07:39	julienXX	Pushed a new release (0.4.0) https://git.sr.ht/~julienxx/castor with an icon, a Makefile to ease the installation process and URL mime handlers set which means that clicking a gemini://, gopher:// or finger:// URL in your browser should open Castor.
2020-01-11 17:09:39	@tomasino	Huzzah
2020-01-11 18:29:31	~tiwesdaeg	I'll spin it up on debian later today
2020-01-11 18:29:52	~tiwesdaeg	see how the make install process goes
2020-01-12 08:21:15		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-12 08:55:56	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-12 18:45:45		lel has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-01-12 18:45:46		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-01-12 18:48:23	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-01-12 18:53:03	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-13 09:36:07		smoerk has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-01-13 09:36:32	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-13 13:56:14	~tiwesdaeg	julienXX:  make install worked on debian
2020-01-13 19:02:53		creme has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-01-13 19:02:53		lel has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-01-13 19:03:58	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-13 19:04:26	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-01-13 19:13:00		smoerk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-13 19:13:59	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-14 03:33:01		smoerk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-14 03:33:04	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-14 11:48:43		smoerk has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-01-14 11:49:47	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-14 19:19:36		ben has quit (club.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-14 19:19:36		jan6 has quit (club.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-14 19:20:19		liberius has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-14 19:24:46	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-01-14 19:27:42	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-01-14 19:27:42	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-01-15 04:22:28		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-15 04:30:40	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-15 05:37:24		smoerk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-15 05:38:46	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-15 17:59:34	▬▬▶	cmccabe has joined #gemini
2020-01-15 18:04:22	cmccabe	is this the right channel for discussing human head transplants?
2020-01-15 18:22:02	@tomasino	:D
2020-01-15 18:32:19		julienXX has quit (Connection closed)
2020-01-15 20:40:46	▬▬▶	julienXX has joined #gemini
2020-01-15 20:45:47		julienXX has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-15 21:46:21	▬▬▶	julienXX has joined #gemini
2020-01-15 21:58:18		julienXX has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-16 07:21:00		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-16 07:23:42	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-16 08:23:46	▬▬▶	julienXX has joined #gemini
2020-01-16 11:06:05	cat	i was talking to a non-technical friend about KONPEITO and thought nothing more of it, turns out she managed to find her way to a gemini proxy and grab the tapes
2020-01-16 12:11:56	@tomasino	Damn! Very nice
2020-01-16 21:07:02	@tomasino	i love portal.mozz.us
2020-01-16 21:12:44		lel has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-01-16 21:12:44		creme has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-01-16 21:15:51	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-16 21:18:50	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-01-16 21:39:42	cat	ooh i hadn't seen that one, it's good!
2020-01-16 21:39:58	cat	i've been recommending http://proxy.vulpes.one/
2020-01-16 22:33:09		lel has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-01-16 22:33:09		creme has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-01-16 22:34:05	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-01-16 22:36:10	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-17 04:59:08	bacterio	vulpes was the name of a spanish teen punk band :)
2020-01-17 04:59:38	bacterio	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZBmBAe2G8g
2020-01-17 05:00:15	bacterio	they did a cover The Stooges' 'I wanna be your dog'
2020-01-17 05:01:09	bacterio	on public tv.
2020-01-17 05:01:42	bacterio	Pretty controversial at the time, lots of cursing.
2020-01-17 05:04:33	bacterio	An all female teen punk band singing about women empowering didn't land well
2020-01-17 05:05:02	bacterio	they cancel the tv show next day. :(
2020-01-17 08:15:38		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-01-17 11:16:58		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-17 11:17:14	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-17 12:41:13	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-17 16:35:18	m68k	ohh I like how mozz's one looks now
2020-01-17 17:32:28		smoerk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-17 17:33:11	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-17 21:10:11		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-17 21:13:59	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-18 01:24:49		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-18 02:57:35	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-19 01:53:27	@tomasino	Lively mailing list chatter today
2020-01-19 02:12:41	cmccabe	But I am a little disappointed that nobody wants to refer to gemiNi logs as nogs.
2020-01-19 02:14:43	@tomasino	haha
2020-01-19 02:14:48	@tomasino	nogs is great
2020-01-19 02:15:57	@tomasino	capsule makes the sci-fi aspect nice
2020-01-19 02:16:03	@tomasino	but it'll get abbreviated
2020-01-19 02:16:06	@tomasino	caps, maybe?
2020-01-19 03:05:32	cmccabe	i do actually like the idea of getting away from words that rhyme with log
2020-01-19 03:17:19	cat	i like capsule
2020-01-19 06:02:35	@tomasino	you're a capsule
2020-01-19 09:38:09	cat	true
2020-01-19 09:38:13	cat	hahaha
2020-01-19 14:37:05	~tiwesdaeg	captain's log
2020-01-19 14:37:08	~tiwesdaeg	clogs?
2020-01-19 14:37:17	⚡	tiwesdaeg does a dance
2020-01-19 15:47:47	m68k	i call mine a nilog! same structure as blog
2020-01-21 01:13:10		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-21 01:15:36	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-21 04:27:39		smoerk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-21 04:29:57	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-21 05:28:49		smoerk has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-01-21 05:29:54	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-21 13:08:28	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-01-21 13:08:50	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-01-21 13:08:50	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini"
2020-01-21 13:08:50	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:04:13
2020-01-21 13:08:50	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 15 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normals)
2020-01-21 13:08:50	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-01-21 13:09:19	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-01-22 07:10:35		cat has quit (quit: offline is no way to go through life)
2020-01-22 07:16:01	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 13:04:03		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.6)
2020-01-22 13:39:27	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 13:48:58		lel has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		mhj has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		bacterio has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		ben has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		cat has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		m68k has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		tiwesdaeg has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		jan6 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		lucidiot has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		cmccabe has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		creme has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		liberius has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 13:48:58		smoerk has quit (thunix.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	cmccabe has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:01:10	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by team.tilde.chat
2020-01-22 14:09:13	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:09:13	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:26:09		lel has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		bacterio has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		mhj has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		ben has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		cat has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		m68k has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		tiwesdaeg has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		jan6 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		lucidiot has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		cmccabe has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		creme has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		liberius has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:26:09		smoerk has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	cmccabe has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-22 14:28:29	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by team.tilde.chat
2020-01-23 01:45:11		mhj has quit (Connection closed)
2020-01-23 01:45:53	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-23 02:03:31		mhj has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-23 03:01:53	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-23 04:20:28		smoerk has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-01-23 04:21:41	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-23 09:24:23		cat has quit (quit: offline is no way to go through life)
2020-01-23 09:26:38	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-01-23 14:30:17		mhj has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-23 14:59:38	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-23 17:00:37	▬▬▶	MrETH1 has joined #gemini
2020-01-23 17:02:03	MrETH1	Hello ppl!! OMG there is free money and Bitcoin here!! : https://freebitco.in/?r=599908
2020-01-23 17:12:08		MrETH1 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-01-24 00:56:15		mhj has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-24 02:13:06	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-24 03:12:09		smoerk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-24 03:13:21	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-24 15:18:30		mhj has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-24 16:16:16	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-26 07:22:17		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-26 07:30:05	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-27 15:33:02	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-01-28 01:15:47	▬▬▶	Ekkie_ has joined #gemini
2020-01-28 01:17:29		Ekkie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-28 01:17:29	ℹ 	Ekkie_ is now known as Ekkie
2020-01-28 05:52:30		smoerk has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-01-28 05:53:05	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-28 09:48:05		julienXX has quit (quit:)
2020-01-28 09:48:17	▬▬▶	julienXX has joined #gemini
2020-01-29 01:13:54	▬▬▶	Ekkie_ has joined #gemini
2020-01-29 01:15:37		Ekkie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-29 01:15:37	ℹ 	Ekkie_ is now known as Ekkie
2020-01-29 05:13:49		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-29 05:13:52	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-29 07:20:54		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-29 07:23:28	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-01-29 10:01:09		creme has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-01-29 10:01:09		lel has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-01-29 10:02:13	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-29 10:02:44	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-01-29 11:37:26	▬▬▶	metaqvt has joined #gemini
2020-01-29 15:46:13		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-01-29 15:47:11	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-29 22:05:10		metaqvt has left #gemini
2020-01-30 00:37:09		lel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-30 00:39:18	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-01-30 01:13:37	▬▬▶	Ekkie_ has joined #gemini
2020-01-30 01:15:49		Ekkie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-30 01:15:49	ℹ 	Ekkie_ is now known as Ekkie
2020-01-30 02:27:50		creme has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-30 02:30:11	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-01-30 04:31:28	▬▬▶	metaqvt has joined #gemini
2020-01-30 09:32:00		metaqvt has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-01-30 15:52:31	▬▬▶	metaqvt has joined #gemini
2020-01-31 01:12:36	▬▬▶	Ekkie_ has joined #gemini
2020-01-31 01:14:48		Ekkie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-31 01:14:48	ℹ 	Ekkie_ is now known as Ekkie
2020-01-31 03:17:38		smoerk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-01-31 03:20:10	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-01-31 03:31:55	▬▬▶	bie has joined #gemini
2020-01-31 19:35:17		Ekkie has quit (team.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-01-31 19:35:31	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-02-01 01:10:48	▬▬▶	Ekkie_ has joined #gemini
2020-02-01 01:12:01		Ekkie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-02-01 01:12:02	ℹ 	Ekkie_ is now known as Ekkie
2020-02-01 17:30:17		metaqvt has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-02-01 18:58:53	▬▬▶	metaqvt has joined #gemini
2020-02-02 01:10:25	▬▬▶	Ekkie_ has joined #gemini
2020-02-02 01:12:36		Ekkie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-02-02 01:12:36	ℹ 	Ekkie_ is now known as Ekkie
2020-02-02 08:06:05		liberius has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-02-02 08:10:38	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-02-02 08:48:52		liberius has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-02-02 09:17:51	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-02-02 09:20:57		jan6 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-02-02 09:21:44	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-02-02 09:31:05		liberius has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-02-02 10:00:38	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-02-02 10:15:05		liberius has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-02-02 10:53:24	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-02-02 17:11:18		lel has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		mhj has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		bacterio has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		julienXX has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		metaqvt has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		ben has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		cat has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		bie has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		m68k has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		tiwesdaeg has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		jan6 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		lucidiot has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		cmccabe has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		creme has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		liberius has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		smoerk has quit (thunix.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-02-02 17:11:18		Ekkie has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-02-02 17:11:18	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-04-19 15:12:50	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-04-19 15:12:50	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini"
2020-04-19 15:12:50	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:04:13
2020-04-19 15:12:50	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 23 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 22 normals)
2020-04-19 15:12:50	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-04-19 15:12:52	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-04-19 15:12:57	@tomasino	i always fall out of here and forget to come back
2020-04-19 15:13:01	@tomasino	thanks for the reminder julienxx 
2020-04-19 15:13:47	julienxx	you're welcome, perhaps it can bring a bit more activity
2020-04-19 15:15:13	m68k	yeah I just logged into ~town to set up a garden ^_^
2020-04-19 15:17:38	@tomasino	the mailing list chatter got over my head when it went deep into TLS vs whatever
2020-04-19 15:17:43	@tomasino	i stopped reading
2020-04-19 15:19:18	julienxx	yeah between the reflow and alternative crypto it was a bit boring, fortunately solderpunk froze the spec so that we can discuss something else
2020-04-19 15:19:31	@tomasino	get to adding content
2020-04-19 15:19:41	login	does gemini have alt crypto too?
2020-04-19 15:20:14	@tomasino	no clue
2020-04-19 15:21:19	julienxx	not yet, there was a proposal with a proof of concept to use libsodium
2020-04-19 15:21:27	m68k	yeah I need to write some more interesting nilog entries...
2020-04-19 15:21:44	login	why not just use libtls?
2020-04-19 15:21:51	login	(which uses libsodium underneath i think)
2020-04-19 15:22:12	@tomasino	oh go read the bajillion exchanges in the thread
2020-04-19 15:22:47	julienxx	login: no idea, I really don't have skills in crypto. Discussion is here https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/000442.html
2020-04-19 15:24:03	login	neither do i
2020-04-19 15:24:21	login	yeah, i'll read the bajillion exchanges in the thread when the spec is frozen, thanks tomasino
2020-04-19 15:25:12	julienxx	I'm trying to figure out a way to choose a certificate for my graphical browser, this stuff is hard, command line options are much easier :)
2020-04-19 19:00:03		tuesday has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-04-19 19:31:29	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-04-19 19:56:38		kkernig has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-04-19 20:28:28	▬▬▶	kkernig has joined #gemini
2020-04-20 12:42:41	julienxx	tiwesdaeg: I'm working on customizing colors https://mastodon.sdf.org/system/media_attachments/files/006/766/023/original/67dbfd262f73a94f.png
2020-04-20 12:43:58	~tiwesdaeg	Yay, theming!
2020-04-20 12:44:38	~tiwesdaeg	Is that markdown?
2020-04-20 12:52:24	julienxx	No, it's a config file. I prefer not to use any web-related technologies in this project.
2020-04-20 12:55:34	@tomasino	theming ftw
2020-04-20 12:55:43	@tomasino	user determined colors are awesome
2020-04-20 12:56:04	@tomasino	besides, we already have the nasty creepy wonderful escape codes for terminal clients that allow them
2020-04-20 12:56:08	julienxx	and delimiters too, like the flower for list items :)
2020-04-20 12:58:23	julienxx	config looks like https://gist.github.com/julienXX/dc23362ca9e8a04c080e2150b3728c5d at the moment
2020-04-20 12:59:34	@tomasino	lovely!
2020-04-20 13:06:20	~tiwesdaeg	I meant the page you are viewing
2020-04-20 13:06:42	~tiwesdaeg	I know there was a big hadoo about lists
2020-04-20 13:07:20	~tiwesdaeg	did we get support for titles/headers in gemini too?
2020-04-20 13:07:28	~tiwesdaeg	like markdown's # ## and ###
2020-04-20 13:09:01	julienxx	ah yes it's in the spec now
2020-04-20 13:11:20	julienxx	# for headings (can be multiple) and * for unordered lists are defined in the spec
2020-04-20 13:23:40	@tomasino	Huzzah
2020-04-20 13:26:58	~tiwesdaeg	so, I can use a middle finger emoji for bullets
2020-04-20 13:27:02	~tiwesdaeg	sounds great
2020-04-20 13:30:19	kkernig	If there are headers, clients can implement shortcuts to jump to them. Would be really nice for navigating large documents.
2020-04-20 13:32:46	kkernig	Or they can show a poor man's table of content by only showing the headers.
2020-04-20 13:37:04	julienxx	tiwesdaeg you can https://imgur.com/7seH69p :D
2020-04-20 13:37:37	~tiwesdaeg	you found the backdoor to image filled gemini pages!
2020-04-20 13:37:51	~tiwesdaeg	but of course, this is end user defined only
2020-04-20 13:39:33	julienxx	you can put emojis in your gemini maps too, it's utf8
2020-04-20 13:54:53	~tiwesdaeg	hmmmmmm....
2020-04-20 13:56:31	~tiwesdaeg	so, gemini porn is a bunch of 🍆 and 🌮 emojis
2020-04-20 14:03:55	@tomasino	i'm into it
2020-04-20 14:04:21	@tomasino	kkernig: absolutely a great feature-add on the client side
2020-04-20 14:10:56	kkernig	Are there LaTeX-to-ascii/utf8 compilers? I've seen some really well-readable scientific documents from the 90s typeset that way.
2020-04-20 14:11:39	kkernig	That would be a nice way to add elegant content to gemini. Text-only, but spiced up with utf-8 characters.
2020-04-20 15:23:35	kkernig	Although it should probably be a "good practice" to avoid obscure unicode characters when possible, since not every client will have a complete font set.
2020-04-20 15:33:38	~tiwesdaeg	does pandoc do it?
2020-04-20 15:33:55	~tiwesdaeg	I was using pandoc a couple days ago to do markdown to pdf
2020-04-20 15:34:50	~tiwesdaeg	I really like the auto table of contents feature
2020-04-20 18:23:01		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-04-20 18:23:05	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-04-20 23:49:43	kkernig	I just saw that in the current gemini spec the idea of using headers for a table of contents is already explained.
2020-04-20 23:50:12	kkernig	Section 1.3.5.4.1
2020-04-21 06:59:49	kkernig	Question: Is there a reason why three backticks on a line are defined for toggling monospace font? I think backticks are really weird, as they are dead keys on my keyboard.
2020-04-21 07:02:42	kkernig	This means I cannot type them easily as isolated characters, as they are intended as modifiers for other characters (e.g. Spanish and French). I can create a single one by typing a backtick and then a character which does not fuse with it (e.g. a number) and then delete that character.
2020-04-21 07:33:18	login	kkernig: yeah, gemini needs to be more inclusive
2020-04-21 07:33:25	login	they could have gone with !!!
2020-04-21 07:34:13	login	it's because markdown uses ``` to designate code
2020-04-21 07:34:15	login	that's why
2020-04-21 09:13:38	kkernig	Ah ok. Simple ticks (apostrophes) would be fine to me as well. By that I mean those used e.g. in "don't". But I'm not how well they are covered by other keyboard layouts.
2020-04-21 09:16:57	kkernig	It should be a sequence which effectively nobody would ever use alone on a line in regular text. I can imagine scenarios where an angry phlog/glog writer with hard-wrapping activated would end up with "!!!" on a line.
2020-04-21 09:22:24	kkernig	Something like %%% or &&& seems even more unlikely to be accidentally part of some auto-converted text.
2020-04-21 09:31:16	julienxx	Note that those markers should be put on a single line with nothing before or after for them to work
2020-04-21 09:34:21	kkernig	I know. That's why !!! might not be the best choice, because if a line ending with "nooo!!!!!!" is somewhat crudely hard-wrapped, !!! could end up alone on the next line. I'm not saying that this is a very likely scenario, but if such an accident is even less likely for other common characters, why not use them?
2020-04-21 09:37:09	kkernig	I would assume that virtually every computer keyboard worldwide will have the "%" character, and I cannot think of any situation where one would three of them in a row.
2020-04-21 09:44:10	julienxx	backticks were chosen because people using markdown were already used to it I suppose
2020-04-21 09:44:26	julienxx	also nobody uses them outside maybe ASCII art
2020-04-21 09:44:45	julienxx	I mean nobody uses them alone
2020-04-21 11:23:26	login	why not <code>?
2020-04-21 11:23:34	login	i jest, of course
2020-04-21 11:33:16	⚡	tomasino hearts backticks
2020-04-21 11:33:22	@tomasino	it's my tmux leader
2020-04-21 11:37:19	julienxx	login because it would open the box to having every kind of tags I think
2020-04-21 11:37:48	julienxx	which nobody wants, otherwise we would just use html
2020-04-21 11:38:18	login	haha yeah
2020-04-21 11:38:40	login	gemini is a way to describe directories right?
2020-04-21 11:40:57	julienxx	no gemini files just have some syntax for headings, lists, preformatted blocks and links
2020-04-21 11:41:43	julienxx	but gemini is a protocol that can serve anything, mime types are used so you could serve html, txt, mp3 whatever
2020-04-21 11:56:44	@tomasino	this syntax is specifically for the gemini index files
2020-04-21 11:57:00	@tomasino	if you wanted you are fully in your rights to serve text/markdown or whatever
2020-04-21 12:10:14	kkernig	Just wondering, are backticks easier to type on US keyboard layouts?
2020-04-21 12:13:04	julienxx	kkernig compared to a French keyboard they are yes, single key press just above tab
2020-04-21 13:12:01	~tiwesdaeg	```
2020-04-21 13:12:10	~tiwesdaeg	right below our beloved ~
2020-04-21 14:25:21		Ekkie has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-04-21 14:25:21		lel has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-04-21 14:25:21		creme has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-04-21 14:28:01	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-04-21 14:28:39	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-04-21 14:29:40	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-04-21 14:56:04	kkernig	I have a German keyboard. Here they are left of the backspace, but need shift pressed and only appear together with other characters. Like `1
2020-04-21 14:57:47	kkernig	My ~ is left of the return key and needs the right alt modifier pressed. But it's fairly comfortable to type.
2020-04-21 14:57:59	~tiwesdaeg	I can't even type umlout on mine :(
2020-04-21 14:58:11	~tiwesdaeg	..
2020-04-21 14:58:15	~tiwesdaeg	close enough?
2020-04-21 15:03:20	kkernig	Ümläüt :D
2020-04-21 15:05:52	kkernig	I think if the Umlaut keys are not available, it's best to just type a, o and u. Will look a bit weird, but won't cause any great confusions. Alternatively, use ä=ae, ö=oe, ü=ue.
2020-04-21 15:10:10	~tiwesdaeg	I just use the extra e like in verrueckt
2020-04-21 15:12:05	kkernig	On German web forums there are sometimes people who apparently don't use a German keyboard layout and constantly use the extra e. I do find that a bit annoying after a while.
2020-04-21 15:12:19	kkernig	But for the occasional German word/quote it's perfectly fine.
2020-04-21 15:14:27	~tiwesdaeg	there's always ctrl-c ctrl-v üüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüü
2020-04-21 15:15:39	kkernig	I just found out that Ctrl+Shift+ß is backspace on my Keyboard.
2020-04-21 15:16:53	kkernig	¿Que?
2020-04-21 15:19:41	kkernig	×_-¯-_×  µº’.Ħ.ªı€ΩÆ›>‹<©Ð¥↑ıÞØ°   Exploring Shift+Right Alt modifiers... I'll stop that now. But we can have all of that in gemini!
2020-04-21 15:32:50	@tomasino	having the wrong accented vowels in iceland will make your text 100% unreadable
2020-04-21 15:33:02	@tomasino	compose key FTW
2020-04-22 21:06:10		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-04-22 21:08:41	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-04-22 22:57:36		southerntofu has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2020-04-22 23:03:03	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-04-22 23:44:21		southerntofu has quit (services.tilde.chat (Too many invalid passwords))
2020-04-22 23:44:42	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-04-23 00:18:09		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2020-04-23 11:20:29		creme has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-04-23 11:20:49		lel has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-04-23 11:24:31	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-04-23 11:25:04	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-04-23 12:43:07		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-04-23 12:44:10	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-04-23 12:47:09		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-04-23 12:48:08	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-04-23 14:33:02		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-04-23 14:34:05	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-04-23 18:39:18		kkernig has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-04-23 18:41:27	▬▬▶	kkernig has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 01:17:41		lel has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-04-24 01:18:42		creme has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-04-24 01:18:48	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 01:21:03	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 03:15:45		anton has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-04-24 05:51:22	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 06:24:21	styan	I am wondering, are the possibly infinite whitespaces in the response header to allow for possible (random?) padding?
2020-04-24 08:11:57	▬▬▶	kkernig_ has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 08:12:55		kkernig has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-04-24 08:59:05	ℹ 	kkernig_ is now known as kkernig
2020-04-24 09:06:06	southerntofu	you mean padding as in crypto padding?
2020-04-24 09:07:34	styan	I am reffering to the following part of the Gemini spec: <whitespace> is any non-zero number of consecutive spaces or tabs.
2020-04-24 09:08:20	southerntofu	(sry i'm not familiar at all with gemini which is why i'm asking also)
2020-04-24 09:10:26	southerntofu	just reading it now it sounds like it's to allow for it not to crash if you add spaces? like if you hand craft a reply? idk
2020-04-24 09:14:38	styan	My guesses are either to allow the server to align packets (multiple of 8 bytes, for example), to allow the server to mess with the total length (anti-fingerprinting), or to allow for fixed-size headers (I don't know why).
2020-04-24 09:15:17	styan	I am not too knowledgable about networking, so I can not say what is most likely.
2020-04-24 09:16:38	southerntofu	fixed-size headers somehow makes sense to make parsing easier but i doubt that's the case (i didn't see that)
2020-04-24 09:17:12	styan	Also, literally infinite spaces makes parsing harder.
2020-04-24 09:17:23	southerntofu	also encryption-related padding should take place on the TLS side not in the plaintext headers
2020-04-24 09:17:50	southerntofu	how so ? while char == ' ' { continue; }
2020-04-24 09:18:03	styan	Cool, I did not know that was part of TLS.
2020-04-24 09:18:44	styan	Because you have to account for the header being split between reads.
2020-04-24 09:20:09	southerntofu	or headers.split_whitespace() <-- if you use a fancier language
2020-04-24 09:20:21	southerntofu	what do you mean a header is split between reads?
2020-04-24 09:20:51	southerntofu	(also yes padding is part of any good TLS library, you can do TLS without padding but encryptiong without padding or with bad padding is as good as zero encryption :D)
2020-04-24 09:22:55	styan	So, for example, reading 2048 octets where the first two are the status, the next 1021 characters are spaces, and a full sized (1024 octet) META section would have it end with the CR of the CR-LF.
2020-04-24 09:24:09	styan	Of course 1021 characters of useless spaces seems like a silly case to account for, which is why I wanted to know more. :-)
2020-04-24 09:24:25	southerntofu	what would it change for your parser?
2020-04-24 09:25:32	styan	In my case, I have overengineered it into a state-machine.
2020-04-24 09:25:38	southerntofu	oooooo :)
2020-04-24 09:26:27	southerntofu	well your state machine can certainly loop over a state of whitespace stripping until it meets any other char?
2020-04-24 09:27:05	styan	No, I put everything in the state machine, hence my overengineering :-)
2020-04-24 09:27:16	southerntofu	(also why would a digit be a full byte? 2 digits should be a single byte (<128)
2020-04-24 09:27:59	styan	Because the header is text, not binary.
2020-04-24 09:28:04	southerntofu	oh k
2020-04-24 09:28:20	southerntofu	that makes sense ^^
2020-04-24 10:11:28	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 10:18:12	▬▬▶	kkernig_ has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 10:19:14		kkernig has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-04-24 10:35:04		anton has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-04-24 13:05:12	ℹ 	kkernig_ is now known as kkernig
2020-04-24 13:11:25	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 13:15:25		anton has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-04-24 13:16:03	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 13:19:51		anton has left #gemini ("WeeChat 2.8")
2020-04-24 14:07:10	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: going to try out compiling castor on openbsd today
2020-04-24 14:12:32	julienxx	cool, I just installed it on my laptop today :) Not sure I'll keep it though, wifi performance is awful and the fans are kinda always on
2020-04-24 14:14:39	~tiwesdaeg	I revived an old small form factor cor 2 duo desktop and installed openbsd on it
2020-04-24 14:15:11	~tiwesdaeg	I know rustup doesn't work on openbsd, so we'll see if we can get this to compile
2020-04-24 14:16:12	~tiwesdaeg	I just realized that my rust version is 1.38 :(
2020-04-24 14:16:23	~tiwesdaeg	let me see if I can learn how to upgrade to current
2020-04-24 14:22:58	julienxx	sysupgrade -c if I'm not mistaken
2020-04-24 14:26:48	~tiwesdaeg	-s for snapshot
2020-04-24 14:27:04	~tiwesdaeg	which is more stable starting point
2020-04-24 14:27:28	~tiwesdaeg	netbsd has rustup support
2020-04-24 14:27:42	~tiwesdaeg	I wonder what openbsd is doing wrong
2020-04-24 14:29:50	southerntofu	tiwesdaeg: 1.38 isn't so bad on ~fr i've only got 1.34 (debian buster) :)
2020-04-24 14:37:48	southerntofu	still it could compile lsd, but nothing else i tried :D
2020-04-24 14:38:02	~tiwesdaeg	you can use rustup on buster
2020-04-24 14:38:19	southerntofu	yeah i probably should, but i wanted as much as possible to use distro packages
2020-04-24 14:38:22	~tiwesdaeg	I am now upgrading all packages
2020-04-24 14:38:28	~tiwesdaeg	we'll see how long this takes
2020-04-24 14:38:38	~tiwesdaeg	the debian way
2020-04-24 14:38:55	~tiwesdaeg	I'm a bad debian user
2020-04-24 14:39:03	~tiwesdaeg	sometimes I compile things myself
2020-04-24 14:39:50	southerntofu	who doesn't? :P
2020-04-24 14:40:23	southerntofu	later today i'll compile lua-pam so i can use UNIX accounts for Jabber authentication backend :)
2020-04-24 14:40:42	~tiwesdaeg	and when I'm feeling extra frisky, I drop binaries and scripts in to /bin
2020-04-24 14:41:09	southerntofu	is it wrong? i often fail to think of /usr/local/bin and do that too :P
2020-04-24 14:41:53	~tiwesdaeg	it's wrong in the moral sense?
2020-04-24 14:41:58	~tiwesdaeg	not the functional
2020-04-24 14:43:00	southerntofu	:D
2020-04-24 14:43:48	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, you could make your own linux distro and put everything in /bin
2020-04-24 14:44:16	~tiwesdaeg	everything.......... like, one monolithic directory for all files
2020-04-24 14:44:21	~tiwesdaeg	for fun
2020-04-24 14:46:38	southerntofu	:)
2020-04-24 14:49:50	m68k	gemini://gemini.68kmentat.com/images/astrobotany.png
2020-04-24 14:50:00	m68k	astrobotany on a 33 year old pc 8)
2020-04-24 15:05:55	julienxx	awesome!
2020-04-24 15:22:36	~tiwesdaeg	ok, now I have rust 1.42!
2020-04-24 15:30:57	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-04-24 15:31:09	~tiwesdaeg	openssl failure
2020-04-24 15:31:35	~tiwesdaeg	I installed openssl 1.1.1, but openbsd uses libressl natively
2020-04-24 15:32:50	~tiwesdaeg	cargo:libressl_version_number=3010000f
2020-04-24 15:38:58	~tiwesdaeg	looks like it has something to do with the -current version of libressl
2020-04-24 15:46:16	~tiwesdaeg	April 8th, libressl 3.1 was released :(
2020-04-24 17:14:43		bacterio has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 17:14:43		underpower has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 17:14:43		southerntofu has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 17:15:44	▬▬▶	underpower has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 17:15:44	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 17:15:50	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 17:41:24		southerntofu has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 17:46:24	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 17:47:43		southerntofu has quit (team.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 17:48:40	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 19:54:44		southerntofu has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 19:54:44		tildebeast1 has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 19:54:44		ben has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 19:54:44		cat has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 19:54:44		jan6 has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 19:56:52	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 19:56:52	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 19:56:52	▬▬▶	tildebeast1 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 19:56:52	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:00:34	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:00:58		jan6 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-04-24 20:01:14	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:02:45		lucidiot has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:02:45		m68k has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:02:45		login has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:03:02	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:03:24	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:04:59		lel has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		creme has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		Ekkie has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		bacterio has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		tiwesdaeg has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		underpower has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		southerntofu has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		smoerk has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		tildebeast1 has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		lucidiot has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		styan has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		tuesday has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		StygianBlues has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		m68k has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		ben has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		cat has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		liberius has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		jan6 has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		kkernig has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:04:59		julienxx has quit (ctrl-c.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-04-24 20:05:25	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:25	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:25	▬▬▶	tildebeast1 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:25	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:25	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:25	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:25	▬▬▶	kkernig has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:25	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:40	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:42	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:51	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:05:51	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:06:06	▬▬▶	underpower has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:06:06	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:06:14	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:06:28	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:06:28	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:06:28	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:07:09		jan6 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-04-24 20:07:27	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:08:05	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:10:03	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:13:20		jan6 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-04-24 20:13:38	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:19:31		jan6 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-04-24 20:19:47	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:19:47		jan6 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-04-24 20:19:53	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:19:59		jan6 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-04-24 20:20:05	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:21:39	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-04-24 20:23:25		jan6 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-04-24 20:23:31	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:29:26		jan6 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-04-24 20:29:42	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:35:38		jan6 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-04-24 20:35:54	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 20:48:49	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 21:18:06	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-04-24 21:19:43		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-04-24 21:20:46	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-04-25 00:06:07		kkernig has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-25 22:50:38		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-25 22:50:39		m68k has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-25 22:50:42		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-25 22:50:44		login has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-26 00:48:28	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 02:42:02	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 04:40:54		lel has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-04-26 04:40:54		creme has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-04-26 04:40:54		Ekkie has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-04-26 04:42:08	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 04:43:09	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 04:43:38	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 04:49:44		m68k has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-26 05:07:01	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 08:51:11	styan	¹
2020-04-26 08:51:20	styan	Whoops.
2020-04-26 10:11:12	julienxx	tiwesdaeg: I made an openbsd branch which builds successfully. I add to bump some values in /etc/login.conf though because some libs like gtk where needing more memory to build.
2020-04-26 13:00:45	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 13:08:35	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: I'll try it out today
2020-04-26 13:10:05	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: are you building on 6.7 stable?
2020-04-26 13:11:54	~tiwesdaeg	I upgraded to current and my libressl is too new to be supported by one of hte modules
2020-04-26 13:27:59	julienxx	6.7 snapshot, I don’t think there is a stable yet
2020-04-26 13:43:36	~tiwesdaeg	ok, I'll try the branch out in a few minutes
2020-04-26 13:43:45	~tiwesdaeg	still working on morning coffee
2020-04-26 14:04:45	julienxx	if you get llvm issues complaining about memory you'll have to tweak some values in /etc/login.conf
2020-04-26 14:06:39	~tiwesdaeg	I already upped mine to 4096mb right after install
2020-04-26 14:18:45	~tiwesdaeg	hey, I remembered how to checkout a branch all by myself!
2020-04-26 14:27:48	~tiwesdaeg	made it past openssl
2020-04-26 14:32:58	~tiwesdaeg	glib is making this old core2duo work for its money
2020-04-26 14:42:03	~tiwesdaeg	it works!
2020-04-26 14:42:09	~tiwesdaeg	my dark theme is making a mess of things
2020-04-26 14:43:34	~tiwesdaeg	did you take that screenshot with twm or fvwm2?
2020-04-26 14:46:58	~tiwesdaeg	also, shouldn't castor_settings.toml be in ~/.config/castor/castor_settings.toml ?
2020-04-26 14:47:33	~tiwesdaeg	I think ~/.local/share is for storing images and fonts and other files, not configuration files
2020-04-26 14:47:49	~tiwesdaeg	super happy I got this running on openbsd, thanks!
2020-04-26 14:51:47	~tiwesdaeg	Also, gopher font color stays white
2020-04-26 15:21:56	julienxx	Great! I didn’t try the setting yet, the shot was taken under fvwm yes
2020-04-26 15:22:34	julienxx	That’s a good point for the config files I’m not sure where they belong on every OS
2020-04-26 15:23:22	julienxx	The openbsd branch is the same as master except I use my forks of the ssl libs to allow the latest libressl while it’s not merged
2020-04-26 15:24:48	m68k	~/%APPDATALOCAL%/.castor ?
2020-04-26 15:42:05	~tiwesdaeg	I think ~/.config/ is pretty standard across the unix spectrum
2020-04-26 15:42:30	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, you can put a config file anywhere that is user writable, but then there's best practice
2020-04-26 15:42:58	~tiwesdaeg	some programs still use ~/ for their dotfiles, but I that just turns in to a big mess
2020-04-26 15:43:02	m68k	yeah it ought to be, and I guess makefiles aren't common anymore but aren't they supposed to take care of differences as the arise?
2020-04-26 15:43:21	@tomasino	$XDG_CONFIG_HOME please
2020-04-26 15:43:22	~tiwesdaeg	I really like ~/.config/program-name/
2020-04-26 15:43:56	m68k	yeah home directory pollution is bad
2020-04-26 15:44:07	@tomasino	that's for config. If you want cache files there's $XDG_CACHE_HOME
2020-04-26 15:44:50	julienxx	good to know, thanks!
2020-04-26 17:26:13		lucidiot has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-04-26 18:53:08	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-04-26 18:53:43	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 18:53:43	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini"
2020-04-26 18:53:43	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:04:13
2020-04-26 18:53:43	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 20 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normals)
2020-04-26 18:53:43	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-04-26 18:54:25	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-04-26 19:08:17	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-04-26 19:08:52	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 19:08:52	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini"
2020-04-26 19:08:52	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:04:13
2020-04-26 19:08:52	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 20 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normals)
2020-04-26 19:08:52	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-04-26 19:09:30	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-04-26 19:09:53	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-04-26 19:10:20	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 19:10:20	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini"
2020-04-26 19:10:20	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:04:13
2020-04-26 19:10:20	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 20 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normals)
2020-04-26 19:10:20	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-04-26 19:11:02	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-04-26 19:21:06	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-04-26 19:21:34	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 19:21:34	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini"
2020-04-26 19:21:34	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:04:13
2020-04-26 19:21:34	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 20 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normals)
2020-04-26 19:21:34	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-04-26 19:22:14	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-04-26 20:13:46	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 21:13:44		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-04-26 21:16:50		login has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-26 21:20:10	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 21:41:43	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-04-26 22:01:15	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-04-27 02:04:03		[tomasino away: plotting]
2020-04-27 06:21:41	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-27 07:23:33		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-27 13:47:36		[tomasino back: gone 11:43:33]
2020-04-27 14:53:33	julienxx	Hi Geminauts
2020-04-27 14:55:13	julienxx	tiwesdaeg: I fixed the gopher text color in Castor. Also added the ability to choose between monospaced/serif fonts for every protocol and moved the settings and bookmarks to some proper place
2020-04-27 14:58:15	~tiwesdaeg	aswesome
2020-04-27 14:58:26	~tiwesdaeg	I'll get to compiling again
2020-04-27 15:01:26	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: do you use fvwm as your daily driver?
2020-04-27 15:01:46	~tiwesdaeg	I always feel awkward resizing windows
2020-04-27 15:02:20	julienxx	yes for my personal laptop but since a few weeks, I use sway on the work one
2020-04-27 15:03:12	julienxx	it keeps the sizes between sessions so resizing once with the mouse is not too bad
2020-04-27 15:05:31	julienxx	what do you use?
2020-04-27 15:07:21	~tiwesdaeg	I am using i3 on this openbsd desktop I put together for work
2020-04-27 15:07:28	~tiwesdaeg	so, basically sway
2020-04-27 15:08:07	julienxx	I tried cwm a bit which is quite nice, but I wanted to get away from tiling a bit so fvwm for now
2020-04-27 15:08:14	~tiwesdaeg	I also hop around between xfce and kde at home
2020-04-27 15:08:39	julienxx	latest kde seems pretty good, I should try it again some time
2020-04-27 15:10:43	~tiwesdaeg	I thought cwm was stacking not tiling
2020-04-27 15:11:30	~tiwesdaeg	I was using it for a bit on here, since it comes wit the base openbsd installation
2020-04-27 15:11:56	~tiwesdaeg	I am just so slow in getting it to work and I like have the i3status bar
2020-04-27 15:12:37	julienxx	cwm does stacking and can do some tiling, I set it up like my sway basically. I'm quite a WM hopper :)
2020-04-27 15:12:50	m68k	I used twm, then vtwm, then fvwm for years on my laptop. very minimal setup, windows only had a 3px border and manipulation was done with keypresses. I switched to dwm a few years ago mainly for an integrated status bar but would like to go back to a TWM-like stacking
2020-04-27 15:19:59	~tiwesdaeg	how well do bars integrate with twm style wms?
2020-04-27 15:20:15	~tiwesdaeg	I know cwm didn't do well with a bar
2020-04-27 15:33:53	m68k	it's not *that* hard to set a zone where windows can't move in twm-descendants, but I always tried to use dockapps instead since they were more authentic
2020-04-27 15:34:26	m68k	only problem is most dockapps are very old and the ones that can compile don't work right
2020-04-27 15:46:25	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-27 15:52:24	julienxx	fvwm buttons are pretty good for that http://www.fvwm.org/documentation/manpages/FvwmButtons.html but fvwm is quite awful to setup
2020-04-27 15:54:10	⚡	wangofett is a fan of i3wm
2020-04-27 15:54:14	wangofett	it's always just worked for me
2020-04-27 15:55:17	wangofett	it's geared towards tiling, but you can do other stacking, and you can control all the things with keypresses
2020-04-27 15:56:21	m68k	yeah I think that's why I ended up switching to FVWM. It was pretty good, I think I switched to dwm just because I read programmernerds going off about how tiling managers are modern and superior...
2020-04-27 16:00:48	julienxx	Regarding fonts in Castor do you have an opinion on what should be the default? I allow monospace or serif at the moment. Monospace would seem like a good default to preserve ascii art but at the same time reading text in serif is pleasant I think for a GUI app.
2020-04-27 16:01:47	m68k	I would prefer serif, switch to monoscape when the document calls for it
2020-04-27 16:03:14	m68k	I think variable-width fonts are conventional for graphical programs & those conventions are why I'd be using it
2020-04-27 16:04:16	julienxx	cool, I need to implement dynamic switching, not there yet
2020-04-27 16:07:34	wangofett	julienxx: what are you writing it in?
2020-04-27 16:07:52	julienxx	it's GTK with Rust
2020-04-27 16:08:46	wangofett	Nice. I think you could add a button to toggle between reading mode (variable width) and browsing mode (monospace)
2020-04-27 16:09:00	wangofett	of course if it's loading HTML then it should respect that
2020-04-27 16:11:21	julienxx	it's not a webview, just pure GTK text and components. I could reload the page and apply a setting, I'm just not sure how it should be materialized in the UI. Just a button I guess.
2020-04-27 16:12:02	julienxx	like the "reader mode" in web browsers could be nice
2020-04-27 16:13:53		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-27 16:15:05	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-27 19:24:26	~tiwesdaeg	thanks julienxx, now I have wasted half the day playing with fvwm
2020-04-27 19:26:14		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-27 20:57:49		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-27 21:02:51	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-04-27 21:10:47	julienxx	Haha have fun!
2020-04-27 22:04:21	@tomasino	i believe breadpunk.club offers gemini hosting
2020-04-27 22:04:24	@tomasino	are they on the server list?
2020-04-28 01:30:24	styan	And I just moved a header-file onto the C file I have spent hours on...
2020-04-28 03:01:23	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-28 06:36:53		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-28 07:19:16		underpower has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-28 07:19:26	▬▬▶	underpower has joined #gemini
2020-04-28 07:29:04	julienxx	breadpunk.club looks cool!
2020-04-28 08:56:57	styan	It seems to have a good crumb.
2020-04-28 09:37:02	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-28 10:59:25	@tomasino	:)
2020-04-28 15:23:27	~tiwesdaeg	I went down some WM rabbit holes and now I'm using NsCDE
2020-04-28 15:23:51	~tiwesdaeg	it emulates CDE, but with FVWM as the WM for a more modern approach
2020-04-28 15:23:59	~tiwesdaeg	super fun!
2020-04-28 15:25:32	m68k	thank you tiwesdaeg! the discussion made me try to find a WM folks were talking about recently, but I couldn't find it in my bookmarks. looks like I've visited NsCDE's webpage, so maybe that's the one :)
2020-04-28 15:27:40	julienxx	NsCDE is really nice!
2020-04-28 15:28:58	julienxx	NsCDE with your icon tiwesdaeg https://mastodon.sdf.org/system/media_attachments/files/006/606/048/original/5a0f45a7fdd3409c.png?1586013069 :)
2020-04-28 15:32:24	~tiwesdaeg	woo, I'm working on figuring it all out
2020-04-28 15:32:48	~tiwesdaeg	I've used CDE professional a bit here and there
2020-04-28 15:33:11	~tiwesdaeg	some of the US military weapon systems still use Solaris with CDE
2020-04-28 15:35:28		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-28 15:38:01	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-28 15:39:11	~tiwesdaeg	I'm trying to get used to the front panel
2020-04-28 15:41:09	~tiwesdaeg	NsCDE does seem to force Castor to use the system theme
2020-04-28 15:41:47	julienxx	yes NsCDE applies GTK and QT themes automatically
2020-04-28 15:45:14	~tiwesdaeg	is there a way to disable that in your application if a user wants to define the theme?
2020-04-28 15:45:40	julienxx	I don't think so, GTK themes are kinda global
2020-04-28 15:45:50	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-04-28 15:45:53	julienxx	that's the point to have a unified experience
2020-04-28 15:46:17	~tiwesdaeg	I had to set the main font as mono to get castor to display correctly
2020-04-28 16:36:39		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-29 01:55:36	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-29 04:25:43	styan	Have any clients implemented "known_hosts" style certificate checking?  I can not seem to find one that has.
2020-04-29 04:27:23	styan	Oh hey, tildegit is a thing.
2020-04-29 04:32:29	ben	sure is :0
2020-04-29 04:32:31	ben	:)
2020-04-29 04:44:48	styan	And, account activation does not work...
2020-04-29 04:46:09	ben	it's whitelisted to tilde emails
2020-04-29 04:46:22	ben	there were dozens of spam accounts being created
2020-04-29 04:46:31	styan	I used my email on tilde.black
2020-04-29 04:46:37	ben	ah yeah that should work
2020-04-29 04:46:59	ben	what was the error?
2020-04-29 04:47:08	styan	It created the account, just that the activation code was "Invalid or Expired"
2020-04-29 04:47:23	ben	mail logs say it sent
2020-04-29 04:47:32	ben	huh
2020-04-29 04:47:42	ben	just manually activated it
2020-04-29 04:47:43	styan	I got it, and entered it, but then it fails.
2020-04-29 04:47:58	styan	Cool, but the mystery still perplexes.
2020-04-29 04:48:33	ben	i'm seeing 4 emails going out
2020-04-29 04:48:35	ben	not sure why it's 4
2020-04-29 04:49:05	styan	I retryed because it asked me to, then with a better system time, then from tilde.black itself.
2020-04-29 04:49:31	styan	Maybe not in that order?
2020-04-29 05:05:29	styan	And, I published my client library :-)  https://tildegit.org/styan/libgeminiclient
2020-04-29 05:05:56	styan	It is still under commented and documented, and probably a bit messy though.
2020-04-29 05:26:30	ben	cool :)
2020-04-29 05:27:06	styan	Thanks for your help with tildegit.
2020-04-29 05:27:34	styan	P.S. It probably needs libbsd on Linux.
2020-04-29 05:54:34		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-29 08:18:47	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-29 08:32:34	julienxx	I think bombadillo has implemented certificates check
2020-04-29 08:34:06	julienxx	thanks for the lib styan! I'll probably use it for an upcoming project
2020-04-29 08:41:11	login	ooh, certificates check is nice (also v critical code)
2020-04-29 08:44:11	styan	My library uses "$host $hash $expires" triples and mostly compairs hashes, bombadillo seems to use "$host=$cert" with the whole certificate, I wonder if the latter has any major advantages?
2020-04-29 08:46:44	styan	If you do end up using my code and run into any usability problems, do let me know.  Note that it does depend on LibreSSL via libtls.
2020-04-29 08:53:25	styan	Also, I will add a BSD0 licence when I add a README and more man-pages.  :-)
2020-04-29 08:58:59	login	so it's custom certificates or is there a ca thing?
2020-04-29 08:59:05	login	ca, certificate transparency, etc.
2020-04-29 09:01:57	styan	The point mentioned in the spec is so that self-signed certificates are first class citizens, so it is meant to check the server certificate against what was previously seen from that particular host.
2020-04-29 09:05:50	styan	Custom client certificates are easier to implement and seem much more common among Gemini clients.  Things like: `gemini-client -C custom-certificate-file -K custom-key-file'
2020-04-29 09:09:43	login	oh, so it's more like certificate pinning?
2020-04-29 09:10:00	login	with each gemini site having its own ca
2020-04-29 09:11:09	styan	The example used is the spec for TOFU (Trust On First Use) is SSH, where when you make a new SSH connection it asks you if it is okay then adds that host's information to ~/.ssh/known_hosts.
2020-04-29 09:11:51	login	you know, big companies use ssh keys as "session keys"
2020-04-29 09:11:57	login	and have an SSH CA
2020-04-29 09:22:14	styan	Interesting.  I am not sure if I knew that, maybe I heard something about it but was not paying it much attention, or it just sounds aggressively plausible.
2020-04-29 09:32:08	styan	I may have some unreasonable affection for the phrase "aggressively plausible"  :-)
2020-04-29 09:39:56	login	openssh even has native CA support
2020-04-29 09:40:17	login	so if, in the future, say, let's encrypt starts being an SSH CA
2020-04-29 09:40:24	login	etc...
2020-04-29 09:40:33	login	however, the keys are not that long lived
2020-04-29 09:40:43	login	much shorter than the three months of let's encrypt
2020-04-29 09:40:50	login	just a single session
2020-04-29 09:40:53	login	this is good for privacy reasons too
2020-04-29 09:49:59	styan	But for the purposes of Gemini, that is just to apply some form of certificate-validation without imposing the whole CA model onto hosts.  I am unsure if this is a tangent, but if it is it is an interesting one.  :-)
2020-04-29 15:43:42		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-29 15:45:54	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-29 16:37:12		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-29 19:24:19	~tiwesdaeg	has anyone figured out cgi scripts yet?
2020-04-29 19:24:35	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like I'm just shooting int he dark trying to get this to work
2020-04-29 19:24:48	~tiwesdaeg	currently using molly-brown for the gemini server
2020-04-29 19:28:37	@tomasino	have not tried
2020-04-29 19:55:18	~tiwesdaeg	I just get errors
2020-04-29 19:59:22	@tomasino	maybe that's what's supposed to happen!
2020-04-29 19:59:31	@tomasino	cgis that only create errors
2020-04-29 19:59:34	@tomasino	could be very useful
2020-04-29 20:14:48	~tiwesdaeg	I figured it out on jetforce
2020-04-29 20:14:58	~tiwesdaeg	mollybrown just crashes the clients
2020-04-29 20:15:18	@tomasino	what did you do on jettforce
2020-04-29 20:15:23	@tomasino	that's what i use
2020-04-29 20:15:27	~tiwesdaeg	echo "20 text/gemini"
2020-04-29 20:15:43	~tiwesdaeg	then whatever else you want the script to output
2020-04-29 20:15:46	@tomasino	oh
2020-04-29 20:15:52	@tomasino	okay
2020-04-29 20:15:53	~tiwesdaeg	it was 20 I was missing
2020-04-29 20:16:00	@tomasino	right, the success code
2020-04-29 20:16:21	~tiwesdaeg	let's try python!
2020-04-29 20:18:54	~tiwesdaeg	works as well
2020-04-29 20:19:42	~tiwesdaeg	so, I don't think solderpunk has cgi fully working yet
2020-04-29 20:20:50	@tomasino	OHNOES
2020-04-29 20:20:54	@tomasino	solderpunk!
2020-04-29 20:22:22	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, it's not like I've even written a gemini server
2020-04-29 20:23:29	@tomasino	i was gonna, but things kept getting harder
2020-04-29 20:24:35	@tomasino	i wanted to try doing one in Ada but i hit 2 walls
2020-04-29 20:24:42	@tomasino	1) just doing anything with text at all
2020-04-29 20:24:56	@tomasino	2) tls. couldn't figure out how the hell to do anything with TLS
2020-04-29 21:33:07	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, tls scares me
2020-04-29 21:33:41	~tiwesdaeg	I always want to use telnet to try and debug gemini, but tls
2020-04-29 21:54:31	@tomasino	it puts coding into a different category
2020-04-29 21:54:44	@tomasino	if you're in a language with an easy library, like python, you don't have to think about it
2020-04-29 21:55:05	@tomasino	but in ada i search and search and the best i can tell i needto figure out how to link to system libraries. that's not a thing I have any clue how to do
2020-04-29 21:55:12	@tomasino	it's not a basic thing, that's for sure
2020-04-29 23:07:49	ben	tomasino: openssl s_client
2020-04-29 23:17:33	@tomasino	Can I use that in ada somehow?
2020-04-29 23:31:50	ben	oh
2020-04-29 23:31:52	ben	idk
2020-04-29 23:31:57	ben	it's a shell tool
2020-04-30 02:59:19	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-30 04:55:12		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-04-30 04:55:15	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-04-30 06:53:55		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-30 06:56:33	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-30 15:12:51		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-30 15:14:30	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-04-30 16:20:56		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-30 20:26:17		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-04-30 20:32:11		smoerk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-04-30 20:32:14	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-05-01 03:25:14	▬▬▶	jeffpc has joined #gemini
2020-05-01 07:58:53	styan	Does anyone have thoughts on conventional vs plan9 style includes for C libraries?
2020-05-01 08:01:25	login	conventional
2020-05-01 08:06:20	styan	I have been using plan9 style headers in all of my personal projects and now conventional headers including header files look weird to me.
2020-05-01 08:52:12	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-01 20:21:14	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-01 20:21:22	epoch	found a typo in the spec
2020-05-01 20:21:40	epoch	"authors of text/gemini content SHOULD avoid hard-wrapping to a
2020-05-01 20:21:42	epoch	pecific fixed width"
2020-05-01 20:21:52	epoch	pecific is missing an 's'
2020-05-01 20:25:28	@tomasino	we only deal in pacific widths. not atlantic
2020-05-01 23:29:42	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-05-01 23:30:04		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-02 03:43:38	▬▬▶	pluvano has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 05:19:42		mmmattyx has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-02 05:32:47	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 05:33:07	pentangle	im in
2020-05-02 05:48:44	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 06:00:22	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 06:02:49		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-02 06:09:12	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 07:28:08		pluvano has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-02 07:29:06	▬▬▶	pluvano has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 08:24:29		pluvano has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-02 09:41:18		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-02 09:57:06	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 11:13:53	jan6	you're in, or are you, pentangle ;P
2020-05-02 11:26:08	pentangle	lol I'm about to be out, as in passed out
2020-05-02 13:43:14	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 17:20:06		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-02 18:15:15	▬▬▶	webchatter5 has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 18:15:45	ℹ 	webchatter5 is now known as DominikD
2020-05-02 18:22:45		mmmattyx has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-02 19:20:04		DominikD has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-02 21:17:55	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 21:18:01	makeworld	Hello
2020-05-02 21:18:59	@tomasino	hi
2020-05-02 21:19:24	makeworld	Success! Lol
2020-05-02 21:19:44	@tomasino	heh
2020-05-02 21:19:58	makeworld	Just found about Gemini from HN yesterday, been exploring and it's pretty cool
2020-05-02 21:20:22	@tomasino	oh, glad you found your way here hten
2020-05-02 21:20:32	makeworld	Yeah, from the mailing list
2020-05-02 21:20:33	@tomasino	yeah, gemini is a nice little gem
2020-05-02 21:20:58	makeworld	I've also been exploring gopher for the first time too
2020-05-02 21:21:09	makeworld	Bombadillo has been good for both
2020-05-02 21:21:17	@tomasino	yes, and castor as well
2020-05-02 21:21:37	@tomasino	more and more hybrid clients coming along
2020-05-02 21:21:43	@tomasino	it's a lovely little renaissance
2020-05-02 21:21:54	makeworld	Yeah it seems like an interesting community
2020-05-02 21:22:03	makeworld	Everyone hungry for the old web days
2020-05-02 21:22:17	@tomasino	just livin' and enjoying the small internet
2020-05-02 21:22:29	makeworld	I tried Castor although it crashed when clicked Show Bookmarsk lol
2020-05-02 21:22:32	makeworld	Yeah
2020-05-02 21:22:50	@tomasino	oh, whoops!
2020-05-02 21:22:57	@tomasino	julienxx ^^
2020-05-02 21:23:42	makeworld	I installed it from AUR if that makes any difference
2020-05-02 21:24:03	makeworld	thread 'main' panicked at 'called `Result::unwrap()` on an `Err` value: RelativeUrlWithoutBase', src/draw.rs:257:27
2020-05-02 21:24:05	makeworld	note: run with `RUST_BACKTRACE=1` environment variable to display a backtrace
2020-05-02 21:26:40	makeworld	Are there any other cool clients I should check out?
2020-05-02 21:31:49	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 21:39:36	@tomasino	oh yes
2020-05-02 21:39:41	@tomasino	there's a whole page
2020-05-02 21:39:43	@tomasino	lemme find you a link
2020-05-02 21:39:59	@tomasino	https://www.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk/clients.html
2020-05-02 21:40:02	@tomasino	this is the gopher client page
2020-05-02 21:40:20	@tomasino	there's a gemini version of this page too
2020-05-02 21:40:30	@tomasino	i just need to remember where it is
2020-05-02 21:46:03	makeworld	Oh yeah I've seen that
2020-05-02 21:46:28	makeworld	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space:1965/software/
2020-05-02 21:48:38	@tomasino	ahh, there ya go
2020-05-02 21:49:34	makeworld	Bombadillo seems to be the best
2020-05-02 21:50:59	@tomasino	it's a great overall client
2020-05-02 21:51:07	@tomasino	i use lynx still out of habit in gopher most of the time
2020-05-02 21:51:07	makeworld	Any thoughts on what the best server is right now?
2020-05-02 21:51:12	@tomasino	vf1 is fantastic
2020-05-02 21:51:18	makeworld	Oh nice
2020-05-02 21:51:24	@tomasino	and av98 is the gemini version of vf1
2020-05-02 21:51:36	@tomasino	gemini server wise i use jetforce on tilde.black
2020-05-02 21:51:39	makeworld	Yeah tried that, but bombadillo feels more interactive to me
2020-05-02 21:51:41	@tomasino	it was the easiest to install
2020-05-02 21:51:45	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-02 21:52:59	makeworld	Oh Jetforce looks good
2020-05-02 21:53:21	@tomasino	yeah, it's quite simple to get running
2020-05-02 21:53:42	@tomasino	it has some handy convenience stuff too, like generating self-signed certs if you don't have your own to point to
2020-05-02 21:53:48	makeworld	Is there source code for gus anywhere?
2020-05-02 21:53:52	makeworld	Oh cool
2020-05-02 21:54:02	@tomasino	yeah, source is out there too
2020-05-02 21:54:07	@tomasino	um, where was that
2020-05-02 21:54:18	@tomasino	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce
2020-05-02 21:54:48	makeworld	No I meant for GUS, the search engine
2020-05-02 21:54:57	@tomasino	ooooh
2020-05-02 21:54:59	@tomasino	GUS? no idea
2020-05-02 21:56:11	makeworld	It's too bad it's not listed on the site or anything
2020-05-02 21:56:32	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 21:56:33	makeworld	It better not be *gasp* closed source!
2020-05-02 21:56:35	makeworld	Lol
2020-05-02 21:56:42	wingy	Hi I'm new to this channel :)
2020-05-02 21:57:00	wingy	Gemini did really well on HN and lobste.rs for some reason
2020-05-02 21:57:07	wingy	Looks interesting
2020-05-02 21:57:09	makeworld	Hello!
2020-05-02 21:57:35	@tomasino	yah, i'm happily surprised
2020-05-02 21:57:58	@tomasino	gemini has been a nice little secret party for a few months now, but i guess it's scratching an itch many others share
2020-05-02 22:00:24	makeworld	I was trying access the konpeito mixtape, but it seems like it's got cert issues
2020-05-02 22:25:10	@tomasino	oh really?
2020-05-02 22:25:18	@tomasino	cat has been stuck offline for a couple weeks
2020-05-02 22:25:27	@tomasino	he's moving and the new internet company is screwing things up
2020-05-02 22:25:37	@tomasino	hopefully he'll be back up soon and will fix that up
2020-05-02 22:33:33	calmbit	the spec is just beautiful enough to make me want to make a client despite it being practically unnecessary
2020-05-02 22:47:19	makeworld	Haha ikr, I feel the same way
2020-05-02 22:47:23	makeworld	I just wanna build on it
2020-05-02 22:47:43	makeworld	tomasino: Good to hear it's not abandoned
2020-05-02 22:48:54	@tomasino	Oh certainly not
2020-05-02 22:49:04	@tomasino	He's got 2 new tapes ready to drop
2020-05-02 22:49:10	@tomasino	Just as soon as he can get online
2020-05-02 22:50:20	makeworld	Ooh
2020-05-02 22:50:44	styan	The lobsters poste helped me find the torture tests, and by extension a bug in my library (prematurly resetting the redirect counter).  :-)
2020-05-02 22:51:17	styan	Though, it did leave me even more curious about the story behind the infinite whitespace.
2020-05-02 22:51:45	pentangle	I'm back from being passed out
2020-05-02 22:51:53	pentangle	I'm happy to see all the activity here
2020-05-02 22:53:18	pentangle	I don't have any development experience, but I made a small gopherhole on tilde.town with a hasty idea I had
2020-05-02 22:53:36	pentangle	and I'm interested in everything to do with old web revival
2020-05-02 22:55:40	makeworld	Did GUS just go down?
2020-05-02 23:04:11		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-02 23:04:32	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 23:36:18	makeworld	.
2020-05-02 23:36:51	makeworld	Idk if my client cacked out or anything: Can anyone access GUS?
2020-05-02 23:36:58	makeworld	I could early today but now I can't
2020-05-02 23:46:04		makeworld has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-02 23:46:14	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-02 23:54:32	makeworld	Also carcosa.net
2020-05-03 00:06:11	makeworld	Huh it seems I get "connection reset by peer" when accessing gemini://carcosa.net in Bombadillo
2020-05-03 00:06:16	makeworld	But it works fine in Castor
2020-05-03 00:06:19	makeworld	Any ideas/
2020-05-03 00:57:47	▬▬▶	makeworld2 has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 00:57:54	makeworld	.
2020-05-03 00:58:04		makeworld2 has quit (quit: Connection closed)
2020-05-03 01:20:30	makeworld	Can anyone else confirm?
2020-05-03 01:36:30	styan	I tried, and I can not confirm.  It worked for me.
2020-05-03 01:38:11	makeworld	Did you try in Bombadillo?
2020-05-03 01:38:25	styan	Fresh from git.
2020-05-03 01:38:30	makeworld	Weird...
2020-05-03 01:38:45	makeworld	Both GUS and carcosa fail in Bombadillo but work in Castor for me
2020-05-03 01:39:07	makeworld	What's your version?
2020-05-03 01:39:11	makeworld	Mine is: Bombadillo r331.61ae285 - build 2020-05-02T12:59-0400
2020-05-03 01:39:34	styan	Bombadillo 2.2.0 - build 2020-05-03T01:33+0000
2020-05-03 01:40:49	styan	I guess the build is useless, since it is just when I typed gmake (after make(1) failed)
2020-05-03 01:41:26	makeworld	Yeah
2020-05-03 01:41:46	makeworld	My doesn't say 2.2.0 because I installed it from AUR, but the contents should be the same
2020-05-03 01:42:00	styan	The last commit is a month ago.
2020-05-03 01:42:37	styan	Strange.
2020-05-03 01:42:58	makeworld	Yeah...
2020-05-03 01:43:25	makeworld	carcosa says "read: connection reset by peer" and GUS is "Invalid response from server"
2020-05-03 01:43:26	styan	Also, what is GUS?
2020-05-03 01:43:44	makeworld	The gemini search engine. It's at gemini://gus.guru
2020-05-03 01:44:26	makeworld	Pretty handy
2020-05-03 01:44:42	styan	bombadillo loaded GUS for me, though it seems to like hanging sometimes.
2020-05-03 01:44:50	makeworld	I'm stumped
2020-05-03 01:45:24	makeworld	Just gonna reinstall and see
2020-05-03 01:45:54	styan	You could check ~/.bombadillo.ini for any oddities
2020-05-03 01:49:46	makeworld	https://pastebin.com/595LAkDc
2020-05-03 01:50:00	makeworld	See any problems?
2020-05-03 01:50:54	makeworld	Hmm I just moved the config file so Bombadillo wouldn't find it, and now gus loads
2020-05-03 01:51:08	makeworld	Carcosa too
2020-05-03 01:53:03	styan	The one it created for me is much different: https://bhh.sh/5su
2020-05-03 01:53:45	makeworld	That does have some differences yeah, weird
2020-05-03 01:53:56	makeworld	Although mine has lots of extra stuff because I edited it
2020-05-03 01:54:04	makeworld	Added bookmarks, the client added certs, etc
2020-05-03 01:54:28	styan	It did not add any certs to my ini file, weird.
2020-05-03 01:58:44	makeworld	Hmm I figured it out
2020-05-03 01:58:49	makeworld	I think
2020-05-03 01:59:17	makeworld	I have a tls cert and key for  the astrobotany site, and that's messing it up
2020-05-03 01:59:45	styan	Ah
2020-05-03 01:59:49	makeworld	Once I comment that out, I can visit gus and carcosa again
2020-05-03 02:00:00	makeworld	But that shouldn't mess it up, idk
2020-05-03 02:01:30	makeworld	I'll file a bug
2020-05-03 02:02:30	styan	Well, I am glad that you were able to solve your mystery :-)
2020-05-03 02:03:18	makeworld	Ha thanks
2020-05-03 02:19:11	makeworld	I couldn't file a bug because I don't have tildeverse account :(
2020-05-03 02:19:29	makeworld	Can someone in the channel let him now?
2020-05-03 02:19:46	makeworld	Maybe sloum is here
2020-05-03 02:23:56	makeworld	*let him know
2020-05-03 03:21:40		mmmattyx has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 03:57:54	login	makeworld: you can make a tildeverse account ;)
2020-05-03 03:58:43	styan	And then login to it?  :-)
2020-05-03 03:59:13	styan	(sorry, I could not resist)
2020-05-03 03:59:27	login	well
2020-05-03 03:59:33	login	do you have a tildeverse account styan
2020-05-03 04:00:11	styan	I do, I just wanted to make a bad joke.
2020-05-03 04:00:32	ben	https://tildeverse.org/members/
2020-05-03 04:00:50	ben	i'm also happy to set up a tildegit account though
2020-05-03 04:01:08	ben	the whitelist to tilde emails is just a spam prevention measure
2020-05-03 04:01:27	ben	i was seeing dozens of spam accounts created every week when open signup was still on
2020-05-03 04:49:14	epoch	.
2020-05-03 05:19:48	login	ben, you spend so much time on here, hope you're getting free time to spend in other areas too (like travel and family)
2020-05-03 05:20:21	ben	nowhere to travel nowadays
2020-05-03 05:20:40	ben	and i'm back at my parents' for the time being
2020-05-03 05:21:38	login	well then, maybe on some personal development
2020-05-03 05:21:55	login	or saving money to invest in your future/retirement
2020-05-03 05:22:06	login	tildeverse.org is quite expensive to run, going by 130 per month
2020-05-03 05:22:22	login	that's more than the complete monthly salary of a lot of folks in other countries
2020-05-03 05:23:52	ben	are  you saying you don't want to see me around?
2020-05-03 05:24:14	ben	my expenses have dropped a ton now that i'm not going out drinking
2020-05-03 05:55:10	login	i'm saying i want you to be more sustainable
2020-05-03 05:55:34	login	and to let go of all alcohol and fast food
2020-05-03 05:55:39	login	to preserve and maximise your life
2020-05-03 05:57:01	login	indirectly, what i'm saying is to weigh tildeverse against better financial wellbeing
2020-05-03 05:57:31	login	tilde.town is being paid for monthly in full (other than the time cost of humans managing the servers)
2020-05-03 05:57:48	login	but the other tildes are not getting the same love
2020-05-03 05:57:53	login	especially envs.net
2020-05-03 05:58:52	login	https://en.liberapay.com/envs.net/donate <-- it's one of the best tildeboxes out there
2020-05-03 05:59:19	login	one of the beefiest, and with good design, and good urls (envs.net and envs.sh) and an admin who has renamed the "tilde" command to "envs" to fit with the theme
2020-05-03 05:59:34	login	i don't any other tilde that uses the "tilde" script has customised it in this way
2020-05-03 05:59:45	login	envs.net updates all the time, i think it supports gemini and gopher too
2020-05-03 06:00:45	login	really, there's no reason envs.net shouldn't be getting as much as US$120 per month (same as tilde.town), other than that it not that popularised
2020-05-03 06:01:37	login	and creme has been nothing but kind to me, even with my insistent questions and kind of intenseness
2020-05-03 06:02:37	login	fast, responsive and caring admin + good urls + great design (both website and shell) + no lag in updates should be = $120 per month
2020-05-03 06:04:08	login	and the saddest part is, the admin asks for 68.7 USD per month while just the domain name envs.sh costs 80 euros a year
2020-05-03 06:14:33	ben	oh don't worry i'm sustainable
2020-05-03 06:14:52	ben	i agree that creme has done a ton of work and definitely deserves it
2020-05-03 06:15:23	ben	sounds like he's getting shafted on the .sh domain though
2020-05-03 06:15:33	ben	i wouldn't pay more than $35 for those
2020-05-03 06:19:23	styan	I initially read that as "80 euros a month" and befuddled for about ten minutes, going so far as to look up random domain name prices...
2020-05-03 06:20:33	styan	I hope that you get a chuckle out of that, I did.  :-)
2020-05-03 06:20:54	ben	lol 80eur/month might be a thing if you have a "premium" domain
2020-05-03 06:21:06	ben	but i'm not familiar with any registrars offering monthly pay plans
2020-05-03 06:22:35	styan	Neither was I, but I did not think I read it wrong at the time
2020-05-03 06:23:11	styan	I ran with that silly idea into the ethernet.
2020-05-03 06:27:26	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 08:15:31	login	ben: but you can be more sustainable ;)
2020-05-03 08:15:53	login	you found a house with below market rent, not many people can do that
2020-05-03 08:16:18	login	styan: sorry;)
2020-05-03 08:48:30	@tomasino	I'm glad to hear vil is getting nice support on town. I'm in ben's camp. I don't need anything for my tildes. They're cheap
2020-05-03 10:31:26	login	but they're not free
2020-05-03 10:31:55	login	and money into tilde could instead grow in a stock market
2020-05-03 10:32:08	login	especially now, when it is a good time to invest
2020-05-03 10:35:18	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 10:37:11	@tomasino	You think now is a good time to invest?
2020-05-03 10:38:29	@tomasino	I've got a donation link in #cosmic if anyone feels generous
2020-05-03 10:38:59	@tomasino	But my total out of pocket cost for that site is about $100/yr
2020-05-03 10:44:36		liberius has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-03 10:48:00	login	that's not investing, that's just donation
2020-05-03 10:48:19	login	$100/year is more than netflix right?
2020-05-03 10:48:57	@tomasino	Not sure. How much is Netflix
2020-05-03 10:50:39	login	do you torrent?
2020-05-03 10:50:46	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 10:51:22	login	1100 ISK per month, tomasino
2020-05-03 10:52:39	@tomasino	Similar in cost then
2020-05-03 10:52:41	login	Welcome back, Mlle/Mssr Clavus
2020-05-03 10:52:55	@tomasino	I Plex
2020-05-03 10:53:08	login	i love that icelandic krona has the same currency code as eve online
2020-05-03 10:53:23	login	almost as if it was iceland that took over the world and made it beyond earth
2020-05-03 10:53:32	login	tomasino: where do you get the videos to plex?
2020-05-03 10:53:37	@tomasino	EVE is made here in Iceland
2020-05-03 10:53:49	login	surely you are paying the copyright owners their royalties
2020-05-03 10:54:02	@tomasino	Surely
2020-05-03 10:54:23	login	oh yeah lol, i didn't know eve was made in iceland
2020-05-03 10:54:41	login	you can buy each content on google play movies, and then claim the plex version is a personal copy
2020-05-03 10:54:44	login	they can't get you for that
2020-05-03 10:54:46	login	no mater what
2020-05-03 10:55:04	login	if you're not, then you're committing a felony/breaking the law/committing a crime with potential jail time
2020-05-03 10:55:15	login	in other words, the police can getcha
2020-05-03 10:55:26	@tomasino	The police don't need an excuse to get you
2020-05-03 10:56:16	login	because you're always at all times breaking one law or the other
2020-05-03 10:56:25	login	and only selective enforcement is keeping you safe
2020-05-03 10:58:07	@tomasino	It's not even about law. A cop can just shoot you. Then the police will put that cop on paid leave for a bit while they "look into it" and clear the cop who obviously feared for his life
2020-05-03 10:58:50	@tomasino	And then there's the copyright itself
2020-05-03 10:59:18	login	i mean, if there are no false negatives, there will be false positives
2020-05-03 10:59:26	login	*other way around
2020-05-03 10:59:33	login	if there are no false positives, there will be false negatives
2020-05-03 10:59:37	login	and a single false negative is death
2020-05-03 10:59:56	login	sounds like it's just the safest to shoot at any cop
2020-05-03 11:00:04	login	and claim the cop would have shot you thinking you'd shoot them
2020-05-03 11:00:08	login	so you shot them to protect yourself
2020-05-03 11:00:12	login	seems reasonable
2020-05-03 11:01:06	login	is it possible to buy an autorickshaw in iceland?
2020-05-03 11:01:12	login	and use it in lieu of a car?
2020-05-03 11:01:20	@tomasino	If you take the slightly less extreme view, that you need an independent armed force to watch over police activity in areas where they have a history of violence, then congrats! You just recreated the black Panthers
2020-05-03 11:03:38	@tomasino	Not sure about the autorickshaw
2020-05-03 11:10:12		liberius has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-03 11:13:12	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 11:48:26		liberius has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-03 11:51:20	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 12:03:48	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 12:54:12	login	idk about the black panthers
2020-05-03 12:54:41	login	i do know that Police departments have Internal Affairs
2020-05-03 12:54:59	login	and in the US, state police sometimes got into trouble if the justice department felt reform was needed
2020-05-03 12:55:05	login	so they got put on an improvement plan
2020-05-03 13:53:08		mmmattyx has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-05-03 14:05:27		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 15:08:19	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 15:11:04	▬▬▶	DominikD has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 15:26:04		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 15:32:42	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 15:37:09		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 16:12:51	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 16:23:21	▬▬▶	makeworld7 has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 16:23:37		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 16:23:37	ℹ 	makeworld7 is now known as makeworld
2020-05-03 16:27:19	makeworld	Hello
2020-05-03 16:27:34	makeworld	I'm back with logs now, thanks to thelounge
2020-05-03 16:34:17	▬▬▶	makeworld2 has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 16:34:23	makeworld	.
2020-05-03 16:34:30		makeworld2 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 16:35:58	@tomasino	yay 
2020-05-03 16:37:36	makeworld	Yeah, it's nice not to have to worry about missing chats and stuff. What do most people do? I don't have much experience with irc
2020-05-03 16:37:50	ben	most people hang out in #meta
2020-05-03 16:37:56	ben	but there are channels for all kinds of things
2020-05-03 16:38:09	ben	you can check /list or it's on the web at https://tilde.chat/stats/
2020-05-03 16:38:26	makeworld	Thanks! I meant what do most people do for logs though sorry
2020-05-03 16:38:35	ben	i use weechat
2020-05-03 16:38:36	@tomasino	weechat logs here
2020-05-03 16:38:47	~tiwesdaeg	I try to see how high I can get my #meta unread messages before I get bored
2020-05-03 16:38:55	ben	i leave it running 24/7 and it logs automatically
2020-05-03 16:39:02	@tomasino	i don't read back very far
2020-05-03 16:39:09	@tomasino	just a few lines, or mentions
2020-05-03 16:39:14	ben	i don't read scrollback unless someone mentions or asks me to
2020-05-03 16:39:25	~tiwesdaeg	which happens all the time ;P
2020-05-03 16:39:29	ben	it's been really busy lately
2020-05-03 16:39:32	~tiwesdaeg	the most popular nick in the tildeverse
2020-05-03 16:39:51	@tomasino	true
2020-05-03 16:39:56	makeworld	Ah okay, cool
2020-05-03 16:40:23	~tiwesdaeg	I've been out planting tomatoes and stuff and haven't been paying attention to irc as much the past few days
2020-05-03 16:40:38	ben	nice
2020-05-03 16:40:52	~tiwesdaeg	we've been slackers this year
2020-05-03 16:41:17	~tiwesdaeg	I'm keeping some volunteer squash/melons to help fill things in
2020-05-03 16:41:27	~tiwesdaeg	they came out of the compost pile, so surprise!
2020-05-03 16:59:59	makeworld	The latest castor won't even start for me :(
2020-05-03 17:00:13	makeworld	I'm compiling from the latest release to see how that is
2020-05-03 17:00:35	makeworld	Can't complain too much about new software for a new protocol lol
2020-05-03 17:05:22	makeworld	It works very well!
2020-05-03 17:06:24	makeworld	It doesn't appear to verify certs though
2020-05-03 17:15:30	▬▬▶	makeworld_ has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 17:15:56		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 17:15:58	ℹ 	makeworld_ is now known as makeworld
2020-05-03 17:16:45	▬▬▶	makeworld9 has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 17:18:05	ℹ 	makeworld9 is now known as makeworld2
2020-05-03 17:19:52	makeworld2	Does anyone know how to go to the second page of GUS?
2020-05-03 17:26:46		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 18:13:55	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 18:15:05	DominikD	Howdy! I'm working on a cross-platform graphical gemini client. It's still an early POC but I already have a lot of, uhm, opinions about the spec. Should I discuss stuff here first or simply write up on the list?
2020-05-03 18:15:57	makeworld2	Probably the list?
2020-05-03 18:16:16	DominikD	Mkay
2020-05-03 18:20:21		makeworld2 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 18:20:30	▬▬▶	makeworld2 has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 18:21:59	makeworld2	tomasino: Can you kick makeworld? I think something messed up with my client
2020-05-03 18:23:22		makeworld has quit (Killed (tomasino (dead client)))
2020-05-03 18:24:40	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 18:25:36	ℹ 	makeworld2 is now known as makeworld
2020-05-03 18:25:39	makeworld	Thanks
2020-05-03 18:28:49	makeworld	I've been thinking about making a wget-like tool for gemini as my first project
2020-05-03 18:29:22	makeworld	Also having some sort of comment CGI script would be cool, that could integrate with blog posts
2020-05-03 18:43:17	makeworld	Does anyone have experience with https://git.sr.ht/~yotam/go-gemini/ ?
2020-05-03 18:44:29	@tomasino	i do not!
2020-05-03 18:44:30	@tomasino	:)
2020-05-03 18:49:48	makeworld	Fair enough
2020-05-03 18:50:14	makeworld	I mean the protocol seems to be simple enough that you could easily reimplement it if needed
2020-05-03 18:57:21	DominikD	You should. You'll learn a lot about the protocol and be able to contribute to the spec :)
2020-05-03 19:05:45	DominikD	ta-ta!
2020-05-03 19:05:49		DominikD has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 19:09:31	makeworld	Android client :o
2020-05-03 19:09:32	makeworld	https://framagit.org/waweic/gemini-client
2020-05-03 19:37:31	▬▬▶	makeworld_ has joined #gemini
2020-05-03 20:09:47	jan6	hmm, I wonder how popular would gemini have to be, for curl to have a gemini protocol support, like it has a gopher support...(well, if it can be considered "support"...but it handles gopher:// urls)
2020-05-03 20:11:16	@tomasino	if you can do a TLS handshake i guess you could curl now
2020-05-03 20:11:34	@tomasino	no idea how that works
2020-05-03 20:40:36	jan6	probably not that hard to patch in, question is if it'd be accepted upstream ;P
2020-05-03 20:42:17	@tomasino	Curl maintainer is on fedi. @bagder@mastodon.social
2020-05-03 20:42:22	@tomasino	Ask away
2020-05-03 21:00:34		makeworld_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-03 21:23:20	makeworld	That'd be handy for sure
2020-05-03 21:23:47	makeworld	Are there any unix tools that can see the raw protocol? I was messing around but couldn't get stuff to work
2020-05-03 22:15:24	styan	makeworld: I have been using nc(1) to manually type in server responses, if that is type of thing that you mean.  (Though, OpenBSD nc(1) *might* be the only one that supports being a TLS server)
2020-05-03 22:33:05	styan	Huh, I was wrong.  Only NetBSD and OpenBSD nc(1) support TLS at all (according to the man-pages), and both support being a server.
2020-05-03 22:36:02	styan	Oh, nevermind, NetBSD has OpenBSD's nc(1) and its man-page but `ifndef's out they TLS sections because that part uses libtls from LibreSSL, which is not in the NetBSD base.
2020-05-03 22:40:38	makeworld	Oh I didn't realize it supported it
2020-05-03 22:40:48	makeworld	I have OpenBSD installed
2020-05-03 22:41:01	makeworld	OpenBSD netcat, that is
2020-05-03 22:41:43	makeworld	The manpage I have doesn't mention TLS though...
2020-05-03 22:42:24	makeworld	Are you sure you're using the OpenBSD one?
2020-05-03 22:42:24	makeworld	https://superuser.com/questions/346958/can-the-telnet-or-netcat-clients-communicate-over-ssl
2020-05-03 22:42:50	styan	as a Gemini client `nc -c -T noverify localhost 1965'
2020-05-03 22:43:41	styan	as a Gemini server `nc -cl -K file.key -C file.crt localhost 1965'
2020-05-03 22:43:58	styan	The `-c' is for TLS
2020-05-03 22:47:39	styan	Yes, I am sure it is the OpenBSD one on an OpenBSD system (tilde.black)
2020-05-03 22:48:11	styan	https://man.openbsd.org/nc
2020-05-03 23:02:02	styan	Ah, the answer you found is older than TLS support in OpenBSD's nc(1).  2011 vs 2015.
2020-05-03 23:17:33	makeworld	Huh idk what's up with mine
2020-05-03 23:17:49	makeworld	The manpage says 2018, but the -c option fails
2020-05-03 23:19:14	makeworld	I guess my version is old
2020-05-03 23:22:24	makeworld	I had success using gnutls-cli instead
2020-05-03 23:22:41	@tomasino	Yay for tilde.black helping
2020-05-03 23:30:29	makeworld	Anyone here know yotam?
2020-05-03 23:37:32	@tomasino	not i
2020-05-04 00:54:12		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-04 02:34:26		jan has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 02:37:31	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 02:46:43		jan has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-04 03:37:04	makeworld	I made a gemini downloader in Go! Just finished testing it
2020-05-04 03:37:16	makeworld	I'll upload tomorrow, it's late over here
2020-05-04 03:38:11	makeworld	It works like wget, so you can download files in the command line
2020-05-04 03:42:52	styan	Cool, I am curious to see how complex that turned out to be in Go.
2020-05-04 03:46:14	makeworld	It was pretty easy, but definitely good for a beginner like me
2020-05-04 03:46:45	makeworld	I used a gemini library for the requests though, so I didn't have to worry about too much
2020-05-04 03:47:30	styan	I did pretty much the same thing when I came across Gemini last week or so, but in C, so I mostly wanted to quantify how much extra stuff using C caused.  :-)
2020-05-04 03:51:57	makeworld	Oh nice, is the code up anywhere?
2020-05-04 03:53:32	styan	I have the C library that evolved out of that on my tildagit, but I still have the old version here.
2020-05-04 03:59:57	styan	Here: https://bhh.sh/5sv
2020-05-04 04:00:39	styan	It makes a few assumptions that I later found to be incorrect, but that was my first attempt at Gemini, more or less.
2020-05-04 04:07:03	makeworld	Nice, thanks
2020-05-04 04:07:09	makeworld	Gn!
2020-05-04 04:07:55	styan	Rest well.
2020-05-04 05:58:49	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 07:14:13		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-04 07:16:59	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 07:54:34	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 08:45:55	pentangle	I'm really liking the experience with bombadillo, I think I might make some suggestions on the git
2020-05-04 11:01:27	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 13:29:11	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 14:33:20	~tiwesdaeg	bombadillo is my default console browser for gopher and gemini
2020-05-04 14:35:43	jeffpc	it is rather weird to hear people talk about gopher non-sarcastically :)
2020-05-04 14:36:04	jeffpc	as many have already stated, I'm intrigued by gemini
2020-05-04 14:42:03	login	I'm okay with gopher and gemini as long as it remains stateless
2020-05-04 14:44:30	⚡	tomasino hearts gopher
2020-05-04 14:44:39	@tomasino	and gemini is pretty cool
2020-05-04 14:44:51	@tomasino	i hope it continues to gain momentum
2020-05-04 14:45:35	⚡	jeffpc considered expanding his blogging engine to spit out gopher, but hasn't exactly found gopher type chars great
2020-05-04 14:45:42	jeffpc	gemini will hopefully change that :)
2020-05-04 14:45:53	makeworld	Yeah, that's one of the goals I think
2020-05-04 14:45:58	jeffpc	that is, I know it is better already
2020-05-04 14:46:04	makeworld	Cause it uses mime-types instead
2020-05-04 14:46:16	jeffpc	and URLs
2020-05-04 14:47:40	login	how is the internationalisation of gemini?
2020-05-04 14:47:45	login	does it work with utf8?
2020-05-04 14:48:03	makeworld	Yes
2020-05-04 14:48:04	@tomasino	yep
2020-05-04 14:48:23	makeworld	That's the default encoding, but other charsets can be specified in the mime type
2020-05-04 14:51:50	jeffpc	hmm.... mime times
2020-05-04 14:51:54	jeffpc	types
2020-05-04 14:52:16	jeffpc	I wonder what sort of creative multipart abuse one could come up with
2020-05-04 14:54:07	jeffpc	message/partial and message/external-body could be fun
2020-05-04 14:55:34	jeffpc	yes! message/external-body;access-type=ftp
2020-05-04 14:55:51	login	i didn't know there was such athing as message/external-body
2020-05-04 14:56:47	jeffpc	yeah, MIME is actually *really* complex
2020-05-04 15:04:16	login	i mean, message/externalbody is a link right?
2020-05-04 15:04:27	jeffpc	essentially, yes
2020-05-04 15:04:42	jeffpc	but a MIME level one
2020-05-04 15:05:06	login	so mime mimes every protocl?
2020-05-04 15:05:23	jeffpc	and at least the original RFC (2046) doesn't like a generic URI support - just a handful of access methods
2020-05-04 15:10:30		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-04 15:10:34	▬▬▶	lucidiot` has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 15:12:19	ℹ 	lucidiot` is now known as lucidiot
2020-05-04 15:33:46		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		mmmattyx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		underpower has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		dkibi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		smoerk has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		tildebeast1 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		calmbit has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		tuesday has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		jeffpc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		m68k has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:46		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		wangofett has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		liberius has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-04 15:33:47		lucidiot has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-05-04 15:33:47	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-05-04 15:34:22	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 15:34:22	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini"
2020-05-04 15:34:22	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:04:13
2020-05-04 15:34:22	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 32 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 31 normals)
2020-05-04 15:34:23	makeworld	styan: There's my downloader
2020-05-04 15:35:04	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-05-04 15:44:07	makeworld	Building binaries now, I'll make a release once I have them. I was thinking of announcing this on the mailing list?
2020-05-04 15:56:09	julienxx	The most simple gemini client `echo gemini://konpeito.media/index-spicy.gmi | openssl s_client -crlf -ign_eof -quiet -connect konpeito.media:1965` :D
2020-05-04 16:00:46	makeworld	Perfect
2020-05-04 16:01:07	makeworld	Alright, I have binaries up now, I'd be happy if anyone wants to try it out!
2020-05-04 16:01:17	makeworld	Is it worth sending on the mailing list?
2020-05-04 16:07:16	julienxx	please do
2020-05-04 16:07:52	makeworld	:)
2020-05-04 16:08:02	makeworld	I will then, thanks
2020-05-04 16:24:40	makeworld	Done
2020-05-04 17:08:11		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-04 18:30:23	tomasino	well done
2020-05-04 18:37:15	makeworld	Thanks! It was fun
2020-05-04 21:27:06		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-04 21:27:59		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-04 21:29:07	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 21:29:27	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-05-04 21:48:11	styan	You were not kidding about building binaries makeworld, there are quite a lot of targets.
2020-05-04 21:48:44	makeworld	Haha I know, it felt a bit excessive, especially for a project that might have some rapid development
2020-05-04 21:48:57	makeworld	I just used a script that goes through all the possible Go targets
2020-05-04 21:49:37	styan	It is funny seeing so many architectures, then openbsd-amd64 :-)
2020-05-04 21:50:50	styan	I wonder what a strict syscall-verification will do to the ability to cross-compile to OpenBSD?
2020-05-04 21:54:52	makeworld	What do you mean?
2020-05-04 21:55:10	styan	https://github.com/golang/go/issues/36435
2020-05-04 21:56:11	styan	It does not matter for static binaries though, I just incorrectly remembered that they wanted it to.
2020-05-04 21:59:17	makeworld	Huh, weird
2020-05-04 21:59:54	makeworld	Are you trying it out now?
2020-05-04 22:01:53	styan	On *BSD, and Illumos, the stable API is libc, so OpenBSD can make the assumption that things should be making syscalls though libc.  If that helps give context.
2020-05-04 22:02:23	makeworld	Yeah that what the issue seemed to say
2020-05-04 22:02:34	makeworld	But it looks like it should be okay for Go, for now anyway
2020-05-04 22:04:54	styan	As I said, I mistakenly remembered something about static binaries (which is what your release is), but it is dynamic binaries that have extra-permissions because Go likes making direct syscalls, so it does not appear to affect cross-compilation.
2020-05-04 22:08:09	styan	I tried your program and it works, though I managed to confuse myself by assuming it would print to the standard-output, even though I just read the code a few minutes ago :-)
2020-05-04 22:09:06	styan	FreeBSD and OpenBSD
2020-05-04 22:11:05	styan	Also, your Github username is entertaining.  It made me think of 'The One True Awk'.
2020-05-04 22:15:11	styan	The following fails strangely: `gemget --insecure -o- //tilde.black'
2020-05-04 22:37:08	makeworld	Hey, glad it works!
2020-05-04 22:37:18	styan	The progress-bar seems to clobber the output whine writing to the standard-output, maybe you should make that imply `-q'?
2020-05-04 22:37:26	makeworld	Hmm one sec
2020-05-04 22:37:40	styan	s/whine/while/
2020-05-04 22:37:50	makeworld	Yeah I'll do that
2020-05-04 22:38:04	makeworld	Thanks
2020-05-04 22:38:40	styan	No problem :-)
2020-05-04 22:40:23	makeworld	As for the tilde.black thing, that has to do with URL parsing
2020-05-04 22:41:21	makeworld	It assumes your url either starts with "gemini://" or doesn't have any scheme info at all, and just starts with the domain
2020-05-04 22:42:57	styan	tilde.black's gemini server actually responds to "//tilde.black" but not "tilde.black", which is why I tried it
2020-05-04 22:45:39	styan	If you want to try my current client thing (*NIX with LibreSSL only), it is here: https://tildegit.org/styan/libgeminiclient
2020-05-04 22:46:19	makeworld	They shouldn't respond to either according to spec I thought
2020-05-04 22:46:27	makeworld	Only an absolute gemini URL
2020-05-04 22:46:51	makeworld	In any case, my tool tries to be smart, and adds the scheme for you, as well trailing slashes on domains, etc
2020-05-04 22:46:52	styan	The spec says that if the scheme is left out it is implied to be gemini:
2020-05-04 22:47:01	makeworld	Ah okay
2020-05-04 22:47:40	styan	But due to how URLs work, the host-name is only suppose to follow a "//" regardless.
2020-05-04 22:47:51	makeworld	I don't do much C but the client looks cool! You should submit it to the mailing list, or at least send it to solderpunk so it shows up on the Software page
2020-05-04 22:48:29	makeworld	What's an example URL that caused the progress bar to appear for you?
2020-05-04 22:49:08	styan	I tried downloading an mp3 from gemini://konpeito.media/
2020-05-04 22:49:29	makeworld	And output to stdout?
2020-05-04 22:49:39	styan	And pipe to a file
2020-05-04 22:49:43	makeworld	Ah yeah
2020-05-04 22:49:50	makeworld	Good catch
2020-05-04 22:50:18	styan	Oh, maybe you can do something like isatty(3)?
2020-05-04 22:52:25	makeworld	Hmm maybe, but honestly I think it's fine to just make it quiet
2020-05-04 22:52:38	makeworld	It's usually what you want anyway
2020-05-04 22:53:34	makeworld	If you don't have any more suggestions I'll cut a new release, v1.0.1  :D
2020-05-04 22:53:48	styan	Add non-long options for things?
2020-05-04 22:54:26	styan	That one is purly an irrational dislike of long-options on my part :-)
2020-05-04 22:55:04	makeworld	Sure!
2020-05-04 22:55:18	makeworld	Something I'm unsure about is the follow option
2020-05-04 22:55:57	makeworld	Maybe I should change it to --nofollow or something, because right now it's set to true by default, which leads to more awkward things like --follow=false
2020-05-04 22:56:14	makeworld	But I definitely want to keep following redirects as the default
2020-05-04 22:56:28	styan	I eventually put mine as `-r maximum-redirects'
2020-05-04 22:56:59	styan	I do not know if the library you are using supports that though.
2020-05-04 22:57:06	makeworld	With a default number of 5 maybe?
2020-05-04 22:57:11	makeworld	Yeah it should
2020-05-04 22:57:50	styan	Then you can turn it off by setting it to 0.
2020-05-04 22:58:54	makeworld	Yeah
2020-05-04 23:07:44	makeworld	Alright, I'll commit and release that I think
2020-05-04 23:22:25	styan	Wow, I just tried my code in a Linux VM and it did not go well.
2020-05-04 23:23:46	makeworld	Your client?
2020-05-04 23:24:24	styan	Yeah, my client library and example.
2020-05-04 23:28:37	styan	There are weird `_XOPEN_SOURCE' and `_DEFAULT_SOURCE' defines required, `pkg-config --cflags' does not give the include directory I thought it would, and apperently the compiler actually cares about the order of `-l' arguments.
2020-05-04 23:36:29	makeworld	Huh
2020-05-04 23:37:03	makeworld	You developed it on OpenBSD, that's why it's different?
2020-05-04 23:39:23	styan	Mostly OpenBSD, a tiny bit FreeBSD.
2020-05-04 23:48:07	makeworld	Cool, I've never really used those
2020-05-05 00:22:06	styan	It builds and runs on Linux now, if you can find a way to install LibreSSL.
2020-05-05 01:17:27		bacterio has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:27		lel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:27		tiwesdaeg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:27		underpower has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:27		southerntofu has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:27		mhj has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:27		smoerk has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:27		calmbit has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		creme has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		styan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		wingy has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		tuesday has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		StygianBlues has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		jeffpc has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		m68k has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		wangofett has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		liberius has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		login has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		epoch has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		julienxx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		pentangle has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:28		Ekkie has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:17:30	▬▬▶	jeffpc has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:49	▬▬▶	underpower has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:49	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:50	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:53	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:53	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:53	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:53	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:53	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:58	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:58	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:58	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:58	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:58	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:17:58	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:18:36	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:18:36	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:18:36	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:18:36	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-05-05 01:18:45	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:20:29	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:25:10		underpower has quit (team.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:25:10		calmbit has quit (team.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:25:10		wingy has quit (team.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:25:10		m68k has quit (team.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:25:10		wangofett has quit (team.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:25:10		login has quit (team.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:25:10		pentangle has quit (team.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:25:10		Ekkie has quit (team.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:25:21	▬▬▶	underpower has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:25:21	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:25:21	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:25:21	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:25:21	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:25:21	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:25:21	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:25:21	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:29:14	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:29:14	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:57:53		tiwesdaeg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		underpower has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		calmbit has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		creme has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		styan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		wingy has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		tuesday has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		m68k has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		wangofett has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		liberius has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		login has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		epoch has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		pentangle has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		julienxx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:57:53		Ekkie has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-05-05 01:58:09	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:15	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:15	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:19	▬▬▶	underpower has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:19	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:19	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:19	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:19	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:19	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:19	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:19	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:29	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:30	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 01:58:30	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 02:02:59	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 04:45:15		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-05 05:47:00	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 06:50:39	jan	hi. i have a question about the spec, section 1.3.5.3.2 Link lines
2020-05-05 06:51:04	jan	the examples list "=>gemini://example.org/bar Yet another example link at the same host" as a valid link line
2020-05-05 06:51:19	jan	but the syntax says "
2020-05-05 06:51:22	jan	=>[<whitespace>]<URL>[<whitespace><USER-FRIENDLY LINK NAME>]<CR><LF>
2020-05-05 06:51:49	jan	where whitespace i a non-zero number of whitespace characters
2020-05-05 06:52:10	jan	so "=>gemini..." should not be valid
2020-05-05 06:52:21	jan	but "=> gemini" is
2020-05-05 06:53:00	styan	Square brackets normally mean that something is optional, so the whitespace is probably optional.
2020-05-05 06:53:21	jan	doh. of course
2020-05-05 06:53:35	jan	thanks, styan
2020-05-05 06:54:22	styan	No problem.
2020-05-05 07:12:46	styan	Huh, `gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/' accepts UNIX line-endings for everything, no carriage-returns needed (or served).
2020-05-05 07:13:44		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-05 07:13:50	styan	I guess all the "<CR>" characters are defacto optional.
2020-05-05 07:29:04	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 08:29:11		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-05 08:30:20	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 10:17:02	tomasino	When the spec started it was gopher style
2020-05-05 10:17:16	tomasino	Then we talked and the list said that was probably unnecessary
2020-05-05 10:17:31	tomasino	But the spec didn't go back and uniformly correct it
2020-05-05 10:18:00	tomasino	So basically like endings should work Unix style or windows style
2020-05-05 15:45:51	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-05-05 15:50:16		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-05 15:51:35	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 17:20:13	Ekkie	qsxdrew123
2020-05-05 17:20:32	Ekkie	oh cool my screen lock *wasnt* on
2020-05-05 17:52:15	jan	gemini-support in ncgopher i coming along nicely: https://jan.bio/gemini.png
2020-05-05 17:53:55	jan	so now i wish that i'd come up with a better name than ncgopher :-)
2020-05-05 17:54:08	tomasino	change it?
2020-05-05 17:54:12	tomasino	ncg?
2020-05-05 17:55:12	jan	that would save some bits
2020-05-05 17:55:26	tomasino	well there ya go!
2020-05-05 17:55:27	tomasino	:D
2020-05-05 17:55:50	tomasino	and it's extensible! you can support any protocol beginning with a "g"
2020-05-05 17:56:04	jan	like ginger
2020-05-05 17:57:16	jan	and gelnet
2020-05-05 17:58:00	jan	maybe I should use a wildcard instead.
2020-05-05 17:58:18	jan	nc* => ncstar
2020-05-05 17:58:52	jan	and what when I implement several frontends, not just ncurses?
2020-05-05 17:59:31	jan	like, doublestar
2020-05-05 18:00:05	tomasino	** would be an excellent utility
2020-05-05 18:00:12	tomasino	we need more things that need escaped to be executed
2020-05-05 18:01:53	jan	rm ** to uninstall
2020-05-05 18:06:09	tomasino	exactly!
2020-05-05 18:28:50	jeffpc	that wouldn't work if you aren't in the right directory
2020-05-05 18:28:59	jeffpc	therefore I propose: rm /bin/** /usr/bin/** **
2020-05-05 18:29:10	jeffpc	maybe even /usr/local/bin/** ;)
2020-05-05 18:42:59	tomasino	ahh, true
2020-05-05 18:43:00	tomasino	very important
2020-05-05 19:53:31	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-05-05 19:54:24	~tiwesdaeg	it seems tomasino hasn't registered his nick lately
2020-05-05 19:54:31	~tiwesdaeg	also, it's getting crowded in here
2020-05-05 20:01:02		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-05 20:02:00	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-05-05 20:02:18	tomasino	I haven't?
2020-05-05 20:04:10	~tiwesdaeg	I'm pretty sure I added you to aop
2020-05-05 20:05:02	~tiwesdaeg	I got booted off the server just recently and had identify again
2020-05-05 21:05:05		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-05 21:10:29	tomasino	oh, i was an op last time, yeah
2020-05-05 21:10:36	tomasino	but i use sasl here
2020-05-05 21:10:46	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-05-05 21:11:02	@tomasino	well, something was screwy
2020-05-05 21:11:03	@tomasino	hah
2020-05-06 03:26:27	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-06 07:15:38		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-06 07:23:07	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-06 08:49:45		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-06 08:52:12	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-06 15:05:06	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk's gemini server list is growing
2020-05-06 15:31:47		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-06 15:34:43	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-06 20:04:33		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-06 20:27:17	wangofett	nice :D
2020-05-06 20:28:20	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-06 20:28:22	@tomasino	yay gemini!
2020-05-06 23:05:06	makeworld	Ooh yeah
2020-05-06 23:05:12	makeworld	I should get mine up and running
2020-05-06 23:07:09	makeworld	gemini://vi.rs is one of the new ones, looks cool
2020-05-07 07:20:48	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-07 13:47:54	m68k	ooh yeah wow 3 new servers :)
2020-05-07 15:30:43		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-07 15:37:31	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-07 17:59:00	makeworld	I was just thinking about how Bombadillo and all Gemini clients should track cert expiry along with the cert hash
2020-05-07 17:59:09	makeworld	And then the issue happened to me
2020-05-07 17:59:32	makeworld	Just know I couldn't access gemini.circumlunar.space, because the cert had been updated and Bombadillo had the old hash
2020-05-07 17:59:44	makeworld	So I had to manually go in and delete the hash
2020-05-07 18:00:22	makeworld	"If the certificate is not the
2020-05-07 18:00:22	makeworld	one previously received, but the previous certificate's expiry date
2020-05-07 18:00:22	makeworld	has not passed, the user is shown a warning, analogous to the one web
2020-05-07 18:00:22	makeworld	browser users are shown when receiving a certificate without a
2020-05-07 18:00:22	makeworld	signature chain leading to a trusted CA."
2020-05-07 18:00:40	makeworld	Whoops, meant to send that as one message
2020-05-07 18:00:46	makeworld	But that's from the spec
2020-05-07 18:05:25	makeworld	I'll send an email to sloum I guess, and report the bug
2020-05-07 20:25:29	wangofett	Is there a reference Gemini server? Or others? The only thing I found was the one that lets you serve both gemini & gopher, but I looked at that a bit and it definitely wasn't what I was after :P
2020-05-07 21:09:10	makeworld	wangofett: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/ has a big list of servers
2020-05-07 21:18:38	ℹ 	tomasino has changed topic for #gemini from "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/gemini" to "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/"
2020-05-07 21:18:56	@tomasino	now that the project home is hosted on the actual protocol. that was long overdue
2020-05-07 23:35:36		lucidiot has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-08 05:48:58	jan	hah. finally got a gemini server up and running at gemini://jan.bio/ . now comes the hard part: content :)
2020-05-08 08:26:51	login	that's an amazing URL, jan
2020-05-08 08:27:01	login	how does one get a .bio? that seems kinda perfect for humans
2020-05-08 08:44:53	jan	pluss, i'm interested in biology / entomology
2020-05-08 08:45:42	jan	that's the shortest url I could find. got it via my local registrar at https://domene.shop/
2020-05-08 09:02:45	login	how local is that registrar?
2020-05-08 09:33:49	jan	not sure if they have an english page. i've only seen the norwegian site
2020-05-08 09:45:50	jan	godaddy.com has also .bio-domains. not sure if this is the best registrar though
2020-05-08 09:46:04	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-08 09:47:23	jan	login: namecheap.com sells these as well
2020-05-08 09:47:30	login	i see
2020-05-08 12:49:54		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-08 12:52:38	~tiwesdaeg	login: https://tld-list.com/
2020-05-08 12:52:54	~tiwesdaeg	a great way to search tlds and registrars
2020-05-08 12:53:12	~tiwesdaeg	you can even search by tld character length
2020-05-08 13:31:40	login	oh, i might do the tld character length search
2020-05-08 13:42:11	~tiwesdaeg	there are a bunch of two character tlds that are fairly inexpensive
2020-05-08 13:44:49	@tomasino	.is are roughly $50/year
2020-05-08 13:51:21	login	that's not inexpensive
2020-05-08 13:51:33	login	what about .nz or .rs?
2020-05-08 13:51:46	~tiwesdaeg	.nz is 15 I think for the cheapest
2020-05-08 13:51:49	login	btw, how did acdw get rw.rs? seems like a super expensive domain name
2020-05-08 13:52:26	~tiwesdaeg	login: find two character you want for a domain, set the tld to two characters and let her rip
2020-05-08 13:52:43	~tiwesdaeg	there are still tons of options out there
2020-05-08 13:52:51	login	none are cheap
2020-05-08 13:53:10	~tiwesdaeg	do you have a specific two letters?
2020-05-08 13:53:10	@tomasino	i have ino.is
2020-05-08 13:53:12	@tomasino	that's my shortest
2020-05-08 13:53:20	@tomasino	i use it as a private shortlink generator
2020-05-08 13:53:24	@tomasino	https://ino.is/stutter
2020-05-08 13:53:48	~tiwesdaeg	I tried tt the other day and found some under 15 a year
2020-05-08 13:54:07	@tomasino	nice, not just year 1?
2020-05-08 13:54:43	~tiwesdaeg	I think tt.nz was open
2020-05-08 13:55:45	~tiwesdaeg	tt.vg is 8 bucks continuously
2020-05-08 13:59:28	login	that one's nice
2020-05-08 14:00:26	~tiwesdaeg	looks like the tld-list .vg isn't setup right
2020-05-08 14:00:39	@tomasino	vg!
2020-05-08 14:00:44	~tiwesdaeg	I went to the registrar they listed and it wasn't available
2020-05-08 14:04:27	login	ah
2020-05-08 14:05:56	~tiwesdaeg	ls.fi and ls.si are available at https://www.istanco.com/
2020-05-08 14:06:03	~tiwesdaeg	both under 20
2020-05-08 14:08:25	~tiwesdaeg	or not
2020-05-08 14:08:31	~tiwesdaeg	man these registrars are all broken
2020-05-08 14:12:57	~tiwesdaeg	now I want to get a two letter domain just to do it
2020-05-08 14:15:55	@tomasino	that's the slippery slope
2020-05-08 14:16:00	@tomasino	you'll be ben before you know it
2020-05-08 14:16:06	@tomasino	how many domains are you squatting on now ben?
2020-05-08 14:16:21	ben	i think i'm back below 30
2020-05-08 14:16:25	ben	i let a couple expire
2020-05-08 14:16:32	@tomasino	oh nice!
2020-05-08 14:17:23	~tiwesdaeg	I keep letting one expire when I get a new one
2020-05-08 14:17:45	ben	that's also reasonable
2020-05-08 14:17:59	@tomasino	i am gonna let some of mine expire
2020-05-08 14:18:03	@tomasino	gopher.studio for instance
2020-05-08 14:19:57	~tiwesdaeg	I only have 5 right now
2020-05-08 14:20:02	~tiwesdaeg	which my wife would say is too many
2020-05-08 14:20:45	ben	lol
2020-05-08 14:22:20	~tiwesdaeg	do I really need a short domain? definitely not
2020-05-08 14:22:38	ben	heh
2020-05-08 14:22:54	ben	i use bhh.sh for all kinds of things
2020-05-08 14:23:19	ben	short names for all my ipv4 addrs, <hostname>.bhh.sh etc
2020-05-08 14:25:29	@tomasino	https://status.ino.is/
2020-05-08 14:25:37	@tomasino	otherwise just ino.is/shortcode
2020-05-08 14:25:49	~tiwesdaeg	har har
2020-05-08 14:25:50	@tomasino	tomasino.is is mostly file hosting and rando nonsense
2020-05-08 14:26:09	~tiwesdaeg	now I get the ino.is
2020-05-08 14:26:19	ben	woah what status page thing is that
2020-05-08 14:26:24	@tomasino	updown.io
2020-05-08 14:26:32	ben	you should make a tomas.ino.is subdomain
2020-05-08 14:26:37	@tomasino	i probably should
2020-05-08 14:26:54	@tomasino	updown.io is great
2020-05-08 14:27:07	ben	do u pay for it?
2020-05-08 14:27:11	@tomasino	i've got 96 more months of monitoring before i use up all the free credits
2020-05-08 14:27:17	@tomasino	then it's like $5 for the next 96 months
2020-05-08 14:27:27	ben	huh not bad
2020-05-08 14:27:38	@tomasino	you can enable a bucnh of shit and up the time checking and get far shorter times
2020-05-08 14:27:50	@tomasino	i use 10 min checks on work sites
2020-05-08 14:28:04	@tomasino	i only share my public stuff on the status page, but i have a login view that shows the other ones
2020-05-08 14:29:04	ben	nice
2020-05-08 14:29:15	ben	i do need better monitoring
2020-05-08 14:29:40	@tomasino	well, i haven't tried a lot of options, but i can recommend them. And it's free to try out
2020-05-08 14:29:46	@tomasino	oh, i may have a referal link
2020-05-08 14:29:47	@tomasino	lemme see
2020-05-08 14:29:59	ben	i don't have time to do it now, but i will keep it in mind
2020-05-08 14:31:02	@tomasino	for the room: https://updown.io/r/mCUEB
2020-05-08 14:31:09	@tomasino	use that and you'll get 100k extra free credits
2020-05-08 14:31:22	@tomasino	and if you ever do need to spend the $5 to renew, I also get 100k free credits
2020-05-08 14:33:12	~tiwesdaeg	does this site basically ping yours at specified intervals and keep track of the response?
2020-05-08 14:35:02	@tomasino	yep
2020-05-08 14:35:25	@tomasino	https://updown.io/myjs
2020-05-08 14:35:29	@tomasino	here's the detail page on cosmic
2020-05-08 14:35:51	@tomasino	you can configure which endpoints it should ping from, set timeout thresholds, do ipv6 if you want. there's some options
2020-05-08 14:36:34	~tiwesdaeg	what interval are you using?
2020-05-08 14:37:46	@tomasino	1hour on personal sites, 10min on professional ones
2020-05-08 14:38:18	@tomasino	i used to have all my personal sites up, but decided to just do one per VM instead
2020-05-08 14:38:33	@tomasino	if cosmic is up, then tomasino.org is probably up too. no reason to waste credits
2020-05-08 14:38:46	@tomasino	well, wait, bad example. those are on diferent vms
2020-05-08 14:38:49	@tomasino	you know what i mean
2020-05-08 14:39:00	~tiwesdaeg	I get it
2020-05-08 14:39:11	~tiwesdaeg	I have no professional sites ;P
2020-05-08 14:39:19	@tomasino	even easier!
2020-05-08 14:39:40	~tiwesdaeg	I don't know why I never got in to IT for work
2020-05-08 14:40:09	~tiwesdaeg	I swear I was only doing 4 years in the military then going back to college
2020-05-08 14:40:18	@tomasino	eh, there's always tomorrow
2020-05-08 14:40:22	@tomasino	you retire soon, right?
2020-05-08 14:40:28	@tomasino	ready for career #2?
2020-05-08 14:40:32	~tiwesdaeg	20 years later, I'm still chugging along
2020-05-08 14:40:49	~tiwesdaeg	I don't want a real career when I get out
2020-05-08 14:41:01	@tomasino	well, you can have a fake one!
2020-05-08 14:41:05	@tomasino	get into woodworking or something
2020-05-08 14:41:24	~tiwesdaeg	I've just been working away on investments so I can float myself to retirement when I tap in to more funds
2020-05-08 14:41:25	@tomasino	ooh, or let your retirement pay for a small self-sufficient farm
2020-05-08 14:41:40	@tomasino	go off grid, enjoy stuffs
2020-05-08 14:41:44	@tomasino	that'd be great
2020-05-08 14:41:57	@tomasino	hit one of the big counties in AK without property taxes
2020-05-08 14:42:04	~tiwesdaeg	I've thought about luthiery
2020-05-08 14:42:21	@tomasino	that would be cool too
2020-05-08 14:42:23	~tiwesdaeg	make some ukuleles or something
2020-05-08 14:42:24	@tomasino	probably not AK then
2020-05-08 14:42:27	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-05-08 14:42:42	~tiwesdaeg	I do miss alaska
2020-05-08 14:42:56	~tiwesdaeg	not the cheapest place to live
2020-05-08 14:42:57	@tomasino	it's my fav state
2020-05-08 14:43:17	~tiwesdaeg	there's like a 5% chance I can transfer to Juneau next year
2020-05-08 14:43:17	@tomasino	well, it would get cheaper for you if you get yourself a nice greenhouse and plant your own food
2020-05-08 14:43:40	~tiwesdaeg	my tomatoes are in the ground currently
2020-05-08 14:44:31	@tomasino	to your earlier question, not just a ping on updown,io. itdoes the full http load and tells you time for various parts of the handshake. There is an ICMP option and a TCP one too, though
2020-05-08 14:44:58	~tiwesdaeg	how much does it cost when credits run out?
2020-05-08 14:45:28	@tomasino	 +200,000 
2020-05-08 14:45:28	@tomasino	 5 €
2020-05-08 14:45:42	@tomasino	200,000 credits for 5 euro
2020-05-08 14:45:52	@tomasino	so, years and years and years for 5
2020-05-08 14:46:15	~tiwesdaeg	I guess it must make them money
2020-05-08 14:50:59	@tomasino	if you are an individual you don't add much load
2020-05-08 14:51:15	@tomasino	but if you are a company with lots of properties then that actually earns them a fair clip
2020-05-08 14:51:26	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/updown-status-page
2020-05-08 14:51:31	@tomasino	this is what runs my status page, via netlify
2020-05-08 14:54:31	@tomasino	clone the repo, customise page_config.json with your updown.io info, and click the big button in the readme to deploy it on netlify
2020-05-08 14:54:41	@tomasino	add a cname for a custom domain on netlify and tada!
2020-05-08 14:55:00	@tomasino	okay, on that note, gonna put on pants and go buy booze
2020-05-08 14:55:08	@tomasino	ciao!
2020-05-08 15:52:42	~tiwesdaeg	I'm still looking at short domains
2020-05-08 16:16:45	ben	hm it's not pulling my checks
2020-05-08 16:18:44	ben	tomasino: did you see this option? https://updown.io/public-status
2020-05-08 16:20:04	ben	ah now it works
2020-05-08 16:24:46	@tomasino	Oh yes
2020-05-08 16:24:52	@tomasino	Forgot that part
2020-05-08 16:26:21	ben	all set now
2020-05-08 16:41:25	jan	whooaa. i want a shorter domain as well!
2020-05-08 16:46:20	ben	i have bhh.sh and ttm.sh
2020-05-08 16:46:25	ben	nice n short
2020-05-08 16:48:37	jan	js.im is free
2020-05-08 16:48:45	jan	not free, but available
2020-05-08 17:04:12	@tomasino	do it!
2020-05-08 17:04:17	@tomasino	j.an not avail?
2020-05-08 17:05:03	@tomasino	https://status.bhh.sh/ - quite sexy ben
2020-05-08 17:05:18	@tomasino	how long will it stay free for you?
2020-05-08 17:07:14	jan	j.an is not available
2020-05-08 17:08:23	@tomasino	booo
2020-05-08 17:09:13	jan	heh. j.me is just $301643.00 / year
2020-05-08 17:10:13	@tomasino	hahaha
2020-05-08 17:11:12	jan	but then, renewal is just 12$ per year ;-)
2020-05-08 17:14:41	login	hey, might be worth buying j.me
2020-05-08 17:15:00	login	who knows if someone comes up with a cool service and wants a shortlink, so offers more than 301643k for j.me
2020-05-08 17:15:07	login	if they offer 1 dollar more, you make 1 dollar more
2020-05-08 17:19:26	jan	j.cat is just 499$/year
2020-05-08 17:22:50	jan	j is premium, that's all i have to say
2020-05-08 17:22:58	ben	tomasino: 17m2d
2020-05-08 17:23:09	ben	i'm not sure i got credits from you
2020-05-08 17:25:27	ben	i'm only seeing 100k credits
2020-05-08 17:26:05	ben	pretty slick solution though
2020-05-08 17:43:39	~tiwesdaeg	there are several two letter .ci domains available
2020-05-08 17:44:20	ben	you have to host a ci server though
2020-05-08 17:44:24	ben	that's the requirement
2020-05-08 18:07:19	jan	I gave up. jan.bio is short enough...
2020-05-08 18:11:27	jan6	ye
2020-05-08 18:12:14	jan	jan6: you should register jan6.bio ;-)
2020-05-08 18:12:25	jan	for total confusion
2020-05-08 18:12:47	jan6	lol
2020-05-08 18:13:51	jan6	wer.ee and 1337331.xyz are enough for me, I might want to update https://about.me/jan6 to not point to my dead old site, lol
2020-05-08 18:15:09	⚡	jan6 only stepped in to figure out where the gemini docs are, only to be dissapointed they aren't in the topic
2020-05-08 18:17:50	jan6	I wanna automatically download all of konpeito, and thinking why not make a netcat and shell scripts thingy to parse that ;P
2020-05-08 18:19:10	jan6	(I suppose something to deal with tls/ssl but still)
2020-05-08 19:03:49	jan	just committed initial geminisupport for ncgopher
2020-05-08 19:04:03	jan	binary downloads are not yet supported
2020-05-08 19:06:27	~tiwesdaeg	 I hadn't even heard of ncgopher
2020-05-08 19:06:36	~tiwesdaeg	so many clients and so little time
2020-05-08 19:06:43	jan6	lol ye
2020-05-08 19:07:00	~tiwesdaeg	Work has been eating all my time today and I meant to compile the most recent version of castor
2020-05-08 19:07:45	jan	now you can try ncgopher instead ;-)
2020-05-08 19:08:03	jan	https://github.com/jansc/ncgopher
2020-05-08 19:08:29	jan6	anyone used socat or openssl's s_client successfully to connect to gemini?
2020-05-08 19:10:05	~tiwesdaeg	all these rusty projects
2020-05-08 19:10:09	~tiwesdaeg	they're going to fall apart
2020-05-08 19:10:16	jan	nope ;-)
2020-05-08 19:11:05	jan6	nope @ haven't tried or nope at "not gonna fall apart"?
2020-05-08 19:12:12	jan	nope at not gonna fal apart
2020-05-08 19:12:34	~tiwesdaeg	I'm running openbsd here on my work play computer
2020-05-08 19:12:42	~tiwesdaeg	we'll see if it compiles
2020-05-08 19:12:49	jan	it compiles on freebsd
2020-05-08 19:12:58	jan	(my private work machine)
2020-05-08 19:12:59	~tiwesdaeg	freebsd smells funny
2020-05-08 19:13:49	~tiwesdaeg	I've got two monitors. One hooked up to my official work computer I just use for email and some documents creation
2020-05-08 19:14:01	~tiwesdaeg	then my other for my fun computer!
2020-05-08 19:14:25	jan	I'd like to try out openbsd on my old mac mini
2020-05-08 19:14:30		StygianBlues has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-08 19:14:30	~tiwesdaeg	I was just using my laptop, but got tired of hooking it up each day, so I revived an old hp office computer
2020-05-08 19:14:30	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-08 19:14:32	jan	or netbsd if that does not work
2020-05-08 19:14:48	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-08 19:15:03	~tiwesdaeg	I run both and seem to do better with openbsd on x86
2020-05-08 19:15:16	~tiwesdaeg	yay, didn't compile
2020-05-08 19:15:22	~tiwesdaeg	let's read the errors
2020-05-08 19:15:55	jan	depends on sqlite and ncurses
2020-05-08 19:16:15	~tiwesdaeg	it's the openssl-sys crate
2020-05-08 19:16:22	jan	ah, right
2020-05-08 19:16:31	~tiwesdaeg	I'm running 6.7 current
2020-05-08 19:16:36	~tiwesdaeg	I ran in to this before
2020-05-08 19:17:12	⚡	jan6 getting all kinds of ssl errors trying to do gemini
2020-05-08 19:17:15	~tiwesdaeg	my libressl is too new
2020-05-08 19:18:52	~tiwesdaeg	I believe julienxx fixed this for castor
2020-05-08 19:19:06	jan	hm.
2020-05-08 19:20:37	⚡	jan6 grumbles at ssl shenanigans
2020-05-08 19:23:47	jan	I'm at my cabin with a lousy internet connection, otherwise i could install openbsd in a virtual machine and try it out myself
2020-05-08 19:24:09	~tiwesdaeg	I think openbsd 6.6 would compile it
2020-05-08 19:24:52	~tiwesdaeg	I'm guessing by the time 6.7 is realeased, the open-ssl crate owner will have updated it to build correctly
2020-05-08 19:25:02	jan	can you paste the error message somewhere?
2020-05-08 19:25:54	~tiwesdaeg	sure, give me a minute
2020-05-08 19:29:37	~tiwesdaeg	jan: https://pastebin.com/1wSXJ2DP
2020-05-08 19:33:25	jan	thanks!
2020-05-08 19:33:44	~tiwesdaeg	no problem
2020-05-08 19:34:25	~tiwesdaeg	I want to say he modified a local copy of the crate or something
2020-05-08 19:34:32	~tiwesdaeg	my rust experience is minimal
2020-05-08 19:34:53	~tiwesdaeg	like ti downloaded from the same location as the git repository was located
2020-05-08 19:36:32	jan	hm. version 0.9.55 is old, latest version of this crate is is 0.10.29
2020-05-08 19:36:53	jan	but it seems to be installed as a dependency somewhere.
2020-05-08 19:37:16	~tiwesdaeg	openssl = { git = "https://github.com/julienXX/rust-openssl", branch="master" }
2020-05-08 19:37:44	~tiwesdaeg	that in the Cargo.toml for castor
2020-05-08 19:42:19	~tiwesdaeg	Compiling rustc_version v0.2.3
2020-05-08 19:42:32	~tiwesdaeg	that's what triggers the error I think
2020-05-08 19:43:54	~tiwesdaeg	it hasn't been updated for 2 years
2020-05-08 19:47:30	jan	hm. weird.
2020-05-08 19:49:34	~tiwesdaeg	it's openssl-sys
2020-05-08 19:49:46	~tiwesdaeg	not openssl that is triggereing it
2020-05-08 19:50:05	~tiwesdaeg	I told it to use v0.9.56
2020-05-08 19:51:18	jan	seems like openssl-sys is a dependency of native-tls
2020-05-08 19:51:27	~tiwesdaeg	I think we made it
2020-05-08 19:51:39	jan	and native-tls has not updated its dependencies in a while
2020-05-08 19:51:53	~tiwesdaeg	fingers crossed
2020-05-08 19:52:03	~tiwesdaeg	it got past rustc_version
2020-05-08 19:52:15	jan	good start ;)
2020-05-08 19:53:10	~tiwesdaeg	at lest I know enough to sort of understand what Cargo.toml is ;P
2020-05-08 19:53:24	~tiwesdaeg	this thing is an old core2duo
2020-05-08 19:53:31	~tiwesdaeg	takes forever to compile things
2020-05-08 19:53:51	jan	and rustc is not the fastest compiler
2020-05-08 19:56:28	~tiwesdaeg	still chugging along
2020-05-08 19:56:33	~tiwesdaeg	it's almost time to go home
2020-05-08 19:57:07	jan	I pushed an updated cargo.toml. but you don't have to use it if your current build works
2020-05-08 19:57:53	~tiwesdaeg	let us see what happens
2020-05-08 19:59:48	jan	thanks for taking your time!
2020-05-08 20:00:25	⚡	jan6 figured out how to gemini get stuff with a very roundabout way, with socat -> netcat -> other stuff
2020-05-08 20:00:56	~tiwesdaeg	we have compiled!
2020-05-08 20:01:03	jan	wohooo!
2020-05-08 20:01:15	~tiwesdaeg	so it was openssl-sys needing the bump to the newest version
2020-05-08 20:01:56	~tiwesdaeg	are those some beautiful ncurses graphics there?
2020-05-08 20:03:30	jan	ncurses all the way down
2020-05-08 20:03:38	~tiwesdaeg	alright, it's time for me to head home
2020-05-08 20:04:00	~tiwesdaeg	I'll install the client on debian when I get home later
2020-05-08 20:04:02	jan	thanks again for giving ncgopher a try!
2020-05-08 20:04:27	~tiwesdaeg	it looks really nice
2020-05-08 20:19:10	jan	thanks!
2020-05-08 21:10:02		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-08 22:24:05		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-08 22:54:06	makeworld	jan6: jan: I've been able to connect with servers using gnutls-cli
2020-05-08 22:54:13	jan6	can anyone confirm konpeito to be down right now?
2020-05-08 22:54:52	makeworld	Yep
2020-05-08 22:54:56	makeworld	I get connection refused
2020-05-08 22:55:24	jan6	also I managed to get stuff working using socat to a local socket, waiting 0.5 seconds, and then netcat-ing out of the local socket...
2020-05-08 22:55:40	makeworld	Interesting lol
2020-05-08 22:56:05	makeworld	I think I'm gonna write a markdown to gemini tool
2020-05-08 22:56:06	jan6	so now I have a script that allows to automatically mirror konpeito files, but would work for any other site with a page full of file links ;P
2020-05-08 22:56:19	jan6	I should properly read the spec sometime
2020-05-08 22:56:24	makeworld	Oh nice
2020-05-08 22:56:32	makeworld	I made a gemini downloader if that helps with mirroring
2020-05-08 22:56:54	jan6	by mirror, I mean that it just gets the page, and downloads all the links on it, lol
2020-05-08 22:57:04	makeworld	It doesn't do recursive downloading, but you could pass it a bunch of urls that you've scraped
2020-05-08 22:57:06	makeworld	Yeah lol
2020-05-08 22:57:06	jan6	same
2020-05-08 22:57:15	makeworld	Oh got a link?
2020-05-08 22:57:17	jan6	what did you make yours in?
2020-05-08 22:57:23	jan6	no link, all local so far
2020-05-08 22:57:33	makeworld	Go, it's at https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemget/
2020-05-08 22:57:42	jan6	mine is all shell scripts, like most of my stuff, lol
2020-05-08 23:09:49	makeworld	Definitely read the spec though, it's quick and easy
2020-05-08 23:10:00	makeworld	Good to get a overview of how it all works
2020-05-08 23:24:04	▬▬▶	jdp has joined #gemini
2020-05-08 23:37:57	styan	I made an echo server, and I was testing out the percent encoding/decoding, and somehow I got tmux to change how a bunch of characters are displayed.
2020-05-08 23:38:20	@tomasino	that's exciting
2020-05-08 23:38:33	styan	It is only cosmentic, and only some characters.
2020-05-08 23:38:40	styan	Including all lowercase characters.
2020-05-08 23:40:52	styan	I was echoing random control characters back to the terminal, thinking wrongly that most of them would not do anything without ESC, "^T^?^N^S^L" did something.
2020-05-09 00:17:19	styan	It gets weirder.  It only happens in ttys that ncurses was used on.
2020-05-09 00:19:12	styan	It looks like it is an xterm(1) bug, st(1) does not break.
2020-05-09 00:20:59	styan	Okay, nevermind, it is an xterm(1) and tmux(1) bug.  Somehow they have the same bug.
2020-05-09 00:21:37	@tomasino	magic sauce
2020-05-09 00:24:06	styan	It is probably more likely that st(1) does not implement whatever feature causes this.
2020-05-09 00:25:48	styan	Oh, and from ASCII it only affects "+,-.0`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~".
2020-05-09 00:34:48	jan6	https://tildegit.org/jan6/geminish
2020-05-09 00:34:49	jan6	wheee
2020-05-09 00:35:34	jan6	a bit naive implementation, didn't read the spec well, has magic wait times, etc, but hey, it works ;P
2020-05-09 00:36:14	jan6	makeworld: ^ I put my thingy up ^
2020-05-09 00:44:43	styan	Okay, I figured out most of the bug, '\016' (shift-out) did it, and '\017' (shift-in) fixes it.  Somewhat anti-climactic.
2020-05-09 01:25:14	tuesday	jan: ncgopher compiled just fine on debian
2020-05-09 04:25:06	styan	I made an excessively engineered echo server: https://tildegit.org/styan/gemini-echo-server
2020-05-09 04:30:19	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-09 05:08:11	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-09 05:29:31	login	hi tleb
2020-05-09 05:29:36	login	and lucidiot
2020-05-09 05:32:32	tleb	hi
2020-05-09 05:34:52	tleb	I had a quick question about the procol, as I was implementing my own client. How should a link such as "foo/bar/" be parsed? It could be relative or absolute with "foo" as host
2020-05-09 05:41:02	login	depends on if foo resolves to a host or not
2020-05-09 05:41:05	login	*a potential host
2020-05-09 05:41:20	styan	There is an example like that in the spec "=> foo/bar/baz.txt      A relative link"
2020-05-09 05:41:30	login	ah, so it is always relative
2020-05-09 05:41:40	login	for absolute, would one do /foo/bar/baztxt or
2020-05-09 05:41:55	login	gemini://foo/bar/baz.txt?
2020-05-09 05:42:45	styan	According to the URI spec, /foo/bar/baz.txt is absolute, but `foo' is not the host name.
2020-05-09 05:43:13	styan	The hostname is only technically valid after the "//"
2020-05-09 05:44:06	styan	The Gemini spec says that the protocol is optional, and assumed to be "gemini:" if it is missing, so "//hostname/foo/bar/baz.txt" would be valid.
2020-05-09 05:47:35	tleb	I assumed that "If the URL does not include a scheme, a scheme of gemini:// is implied." meant that we could have absolute URL of type "example.org/foo". So that's not true?
2020-05-09 05:50:17	styan	The scheme part of the uri does not include the "//", and hostnames are only expected after the "//".
2020-05-09 05:50:37	tleb	Ok, that's clearer. Thanks!
2020-05-09 05:51:00	styan	Here is the RFC for URIs: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986
2020-05-09 05:51:41	styan	I personally found it very fiddly and unfun (especially IPv6).
2020-05-09 05:52:36	styan	It is not complicated, however.  Just fiddly.
2020-05-09 06:25:42	tleb	I once had to parse IPv6, wasn't fun. The zeros-abbreviation lead to a stateful parser a bit too stateful
2020-05-09 06:35:23	jan	tuesday: thanks for testing!
2020-05-09 08:08:37	login	They should have said a scheme of gemini: is implied
2020-05-09 08:19:20	styan	Let us see what gemini.circumlunar.space is doing :-)
2020-05-09 08:19:54	styan	gemini.circumlunar.space -> 53 No proxying to other hosts!
2020-05-09 08:20:10	styan	\/gemini.circumlunar.space -> 53 No proxying to other hosts!
2020-05-09 08:20:28	styan	\//gemini.circumlunar.space -> 31 gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/
2020-05-09 08:22:08	styan	I wonder what its parser thinks that request is trying to proxy to?
2020-05-09 08:44:47	tleb	If the server is Molly Brown, then the reason is there: https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/molly-brown/src/branch/master/handler.go#L66
2020-05-09 08:45:01	tleb	It parses the URL using Go's stdlib url.Parse()
2020-05-09 08:45:14	tleb	Which gives a struct with a host == ""
2020-05-09 08:45:57	tleb	And it checks the empty string against the config defined host, which is therefore different
2020-05-09 08:48:29	styan	That is basically what I thought, but it would have been amusing if the answer was "/", or something similarly silly. :-)
2020-05-09 13:58:32	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-05-09 13:59:10	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-05-09 13:59:10	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/"
2020-05-09 13:59:10	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Thu, 07 May 2020 21:18:38
2020-05-09 13:59:10	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 32 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 30 normals)
2020-05-09 13:59:10	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-05-09 13:59:46	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-05-09 15:23:47	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-05-09 15:38:16		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-09 15:58:33		StygianBlues has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-09 15:59:46	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-09 16:06:58		StygianBlues has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-09 16:09:09	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-09 16:28:37		tleb has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-09 20:24:20	styan	My echo server is running on tilde.black:5691 for a bit, if anyone wants to poke it.  It returns status 10 if the request does not have a query, so it can test that client feature.
2020-05-09 22:37:57		StygianBlues has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-09 22:39:40	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-10 00:19:49		lucidiot has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-10 02:20:46	▬▬▶	TheToon has joined #gemini
2020-05-10 03:30:08		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-10 04:05:34	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-10 05:03:13		TheToon has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-10 09:00:03		Ekkie has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-10 09:00:03		lel has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-10 09:00:03		creme has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-10 09:02:33	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-05-10 09:03:38	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-05-10 09:05:07	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-05-10 13:16:15	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-10 14:21:32	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-05-10 15:07:46		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-10 17:21:24	▬▬▶	TheToon has joined #gemini
2020-05-10 22:30:52		calmbit has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-11 03:41:43		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-11 03:48:44	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 04:31:18		TheToon has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-11 06:30:21		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-11 08:19:07	@julienxx	Hi there! If anybody uses some of my software (Asuka, Pollux or atomini) their repos have been moved to Sourcehut where Castor was already hosted. The software list on gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/ is up to date with the new URLs.
2020-05-11 09:15:52		smoerk has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-05-11 09:22:35	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 09:51:41		tleb has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-11 10:02:03	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 10:19:19		tleb has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-11 10:19:30	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 11:03:58	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 11:12:36		tleb has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-11 12:05:13	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 12:46:08	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: how is Pollux doing these days?
2020-05-11 12:46:16	~tiwesdaeg	I don't think I ever got it to work
2020-05-11 12:53:32	@julienxx	haven't touched it in a while unfortunately but I read that vi.rs used Pollux with modifications
2020-05-11 12:57:50	▬▬▶	TheToon has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 13:16:13	~tiwesdaeg	I've been wanting to host gopher.libraryoferis.org on gemini, but I need some functioning cgi
2020-05-11 13:16:46	~tiwesdaeg	I think jetforce may work for my needs, but I'm not sure
2020-05-11 13:18:32	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using molly-brown on tilde.pink due the built in support for user public_gemini folders
2020-05-11 13:21:01	~tiwesdaeg	with jetforce, I had to create symbolic links for each user
2020-05-11 13:27:30	~tiwesdaeg	honestly, something like geomyidae for gemini would be great
2020-05-11 13:29:22	@tomasino	i also made a bunch of links for black to use jetforce
2020-05-11 13:30:26	~tiwesdaeg	it's kind of a pain
2020-05-11 13:30:34	@tomasino	it was
2020-05-11 13:30:42	@tomasino	black isn't ever doing it again, so that helps
2020-05-11 13:30:50	@tomasino	but for another tilde you'd have to code it into the new user script
2020-05-11 13:30:58	~tiwesdaeg	I removed them all after installing molly-brown
2020-05-11 13:31:05	~tiwesdaeg	works like gophernicus
2020-05-11 13:31:15	@tomasino	cool
2020-05-11 13:31:38	@tomasino	i had to do some other fancy-pants stuff too, cause homedirs are 700 on black
2020-05-11 13:31:40	~tiwesdaeg	I can't figure out cgi on molly-brown though
2020-05-11 13:31:51	@tomasino	is molly-brown solderpunks?
2020-05-11 13:32:08	~tiwesdaeg	I still have a script running to see if users change index.gmi.sample to index.gmi
2020-05-11 13:32:13	~tiwesdaeg	to add to the main page
2020-05-11 13:32:16	~tiwesdaeg	it is
2020-05-11 13:32:29	@tomasino	he doesn't hang with us in irc enough
2020-05-11 13:32:30	@tomasino	:)
2020-05-11 13:32:43	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like I generally have an easier time compiling go software than rust
2020-05-11 13:32:50	~tiwesdaeg	I know, the slacker
2020-05-11 13:33:01	@tomasino	i have a hard time with both
2020-05-11 13:33:14	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx is my favorite gemini dev ;P
2020-05-11 13:33:19	~tiwesdaeg	always around to pester
2020-05-11 13:33:23	@tomasino	julienxx++
2020-05-11 13:33:47	@julienxx	haha thanks!
2020-05-11 13:35:11	~tiwesdaeg	I think the biggest challenge so far with any gemini software project is figuring out how to compile it
2020-05-11 13:36:13	~tiwesdaeg	that lua server, I could not figur out how to get all the dpenendencies
2020-05-11 13:41:08	@tomasino	Package managers FTW
2020-05-11 13:42:05	@tomasino	It's love to see a flatpack for some of these
2020-05-11 13:42:09	@tomasino	That's my new fav
2020-05-11 13:42:56	@julienxx	this will be solved once packaging will be figured out, never packaged anything for a distro but I'm trying to submit Castor to OpenBSD ports
2020-05-11 13:43:19	@tomasino	I need to figure out how to use ports
2020-05-11 13:43:28	@tomasino	Not a clue
2020-05-11 13:51:06	@julienxx	It's not really simple https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ports/ports.html#PortsInstall but doable
2020-05-11 13:55:09	tleb	Any C client/server? I already have a simplistic client in Go but my plan is to have a client+server implemented in C
2020-05-11 13:55:32	@tomasino	so i need to clone down something first
2020-05-11 13:55:37	@tomasino	cause i don't even have /usr/ports
2020-05-11 13:56:07	tleb	First issue: write a proper Makefile :'(
2020-05-11 13:56:18	@tomasino	oh yeah, gotta scroll up to the top of that page
2020-05-11 13:57:29	@tomasino	"The ports tree is meant for advanced users."
2020-05-11 13:57:31	@tomasino	awesome
2020-05-11 13:57:32	@tomasino	haha
2020-05-11 13:57:42	@tomasino	black has gotten by with pkg_add so far
2020-05-11 13:57:52	@tomasino	but i know there's stuff in ports that someone will ask for eventually
2020-05-11 14:08:25	@julienxx	tomasino: yes you have to fetch the ports tree beforehand
2020-05-11 16:34:16	tleb	The "[ \t]+" in the response header is really annoying as we can't just have a fixed size buffer to read the header :|
2020-05-11 16:42:35	@julienxx	with the various mime types in the meta part you still couldn't I suppose
2020-05-11 16:50:04	tleb	Meta has a max length though
2020-05-11 16:51:45	tleb	You could assume that one read of size 2+1+1024+2 would contain the entire header if <whitespace> = "[ \t]"
2020-05-11 16:56:29	@julienxx	oh right, skipped the max size for meta
2020-05-11 16:57:32	tleb	Although it's unclear if it's 1024 bytes or 1024 code points from the spec
2020-05-11 16:57:33	tleb	> <META> is a UTF-8 encoded string of maximum length 1024, whose meaning
2020-05-11 16:57:33	tleb	is <STATUS> dependent.
2020-05-11 17:23:56	▬▬▶	tleb_ has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 17:26:08		tleb has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-11 18:23:40	▬▬▶	cmccabe has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 19:23:31	cmccabe	the stragglers are catching up. rawtext.club finally running a gemini server, gemini://rawtext.club (although without much content at the moment
2020-05-11 19:49:31	@tomasino	noice
2020-05-11 19:49:34	@tomasino	this is great
2020-05-11 21:17:01	styan	tomasino: There is a set for ports that you can download and extract.
2020-05-11 21:17:05	styan	https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/6.6/ports.tar.gz
2020-05-11 21:17:34	styan	It is much faster than CVS.
2020-05-11 21:27:11	styan	tleb_: I wrote a client library in C, and had a similar reaction to the infinite white-spaces when I did.  That and an event-based echo server are on my tildegit.
2020-05-11 21:32:59	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 21:58:18		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-05-11 22:08:06	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-11 22:08:09		tleb_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-11 22:08:42	tleb	Nice! I properly started just now and libtls' API is awesome, I noticed you used it too.
2020-05-11 22:08:53		tleb has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-11 22:28:18	styan	Yes, libtls is good.  Though when I tried to compile it in a Linux VM after I was done I noticed that I could not `apt install libressl'.
2020-05-12 04:59:50		TheToon has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-12 05:47:38	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-12 06:18:36	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-12 07:03:24		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-12 07:29:30	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-12 08:58:30		tleb has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-12 10:19:04	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-12 11:22:13		tleb has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-12 12:57:50	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-12 14:25:03		tleb has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-12 15:09:59	cmccabe	does anyone maintain a list of active gemini servers?
2020-05-12 15:13:48	@julienxx	solderpunk does at gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/servers/
2020-05-12 15:21:29	cmccabe	oh nice. thanks julienxx
2020-05-12 15:22:33	cmccabe	sloum just created a gemini updates aggregator too, if anyone is interested: gemini://rawtext.club:1965/~sloum/spacewalk.gmi
2020-05-12 15:31:30	@julienxx	oh that's looking good!
2020-05-12 16:02:25	cmccabe	i was impressed too!
2020-05-12 16:24:52		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-12 16:44:58	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-12 17:20:43		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-12 19:01:14	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-05-12 19:12:48		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-12 21:14:17	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-05-12 21:52:40		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-12 22:36:25	▬▬▶	TheToon has joined #gemini
2020-05-12 23:09:33		TheToon has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-13 03:03:16	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-13 07:28:51		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-13 07:39:39	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-13 08:25:54		mhj has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-13 09:43:19	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-13 10:38:20		tleb has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-13 11:00:47	⚡	jan6 learned that https://bearssl.org/ is a thing, might try to use this sometime
2020-05-13 11:01:10	jan6	"a minimal server implementation may fit in about 20 kilobytes of compiled code and 25 kilobytes of RAM."
2020-05-13 11:01:34	jan6	and since it's C, it can be used with a ton of languages ;P
2020-05-13 11:13:47	login	^ that's normal for the 1960s of computers
2020-05-13 11:29:45	jan6	you could probably run it on one of them
2020-05-13 11:29:46	jan6	lol
2020-05-13 11:29:49	jan6	also it's not
2020-05-13 11:35:21	styan	Huh, FreeBSD can use BearSSL in its loader for things like Secure Boot.
2020-05-13 11:39:32	login	^ that's nice
2020-05-13 11:44:16	@tomasino	Cool
2020-05-13 11:44:39	styan	BearSSL's Makefile is even more horrifying than mine are.
2020-05-13 11:45:42	styan	It does a newline escape hack to support nmake.exe.
2020-05-13 12:11:54	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-05-13 12:12:19	login	well, is that a bad thing?
2020-05-13 12:12:27	login	why does nmake.exe not like newlines?
2020-05-13 12:26:20	@tomasino	nmake sounds funny when you say it
2020-05-13 12:29:55	login	like mbappe
2020-05-13 12:30:11	@tomasino	sounds like it should be a starbucks drink
2020-05-13 12:31:48	login	starbucks is so bougie
2020-05-13 12:32:00	login	and so is apple
2020-05-13 12:33:53	jan6	npampe
2020-05-13 12:45:47		tleb has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-13 15:27:03		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-13 15:28:37	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-13 15:50:05	cmccabe	julienxx: what is the url of the castor repo?
2020-05-13 15:50:41	@julienxx	https://git.sr.ht/~julienxx/castor
2020-05-13 15:51:11	cmccabe	thanks :)
2020-05-13 15:51:13	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: I ran in to a weird gopher link issue on castor the other day
2020-05-13 15:51:21	~tiwesdaeg	let me see if I can replicate it
2020-05-13 15:57:43	~tiwesdaeg	gopher://tilde.pink/1/test.gph
2020-05-13 15:58:00	~tiwesdaeg	castor does not display a link for type "h"
2020-05-13 15:58:09	~tiwesdaeg	bombadillo does
2020-05-13 15:58:23	~tiwesdaeg	it just sort of ignores it and doesn't display anything for that line
2020-05-13 16:00:40	login	can we replace the internet with a signal protocol for communication?
2020-05-13 16:00:45	login	html over signal procol
2020-05-13 16:00:52	login	or gemini in this case
2020-05-13 16:02:35	login	what is your vision for Castor?
2020-05-13 16:04:27	@julienxx	not sure what you mean, Gemini is mostly a read-only protocol even if it has some kind of input type
2020-05-13 16:12:23	@julienxx	tiwesdaeg: spotted the bug, will fix it shortly. Thanks!
2020-05-13 16:13:44	~tiwesdaeg	also, have you thought about gopher urls displaying the gopher selector?
2020-05-13 16:14:04	~tiwesdaeg	nevermind
2020-05-13 16:14:11	~tiwesdaeg	I clicked a link and it was there
2020-05-13 16:15:02	@julienxx	allright just pushed 0.8.4 that fixes the h link issue
2020-05-13 16:15:20	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't tried every selector yet
2020-05-13 16:16:51	@julienxx	type 7 is not yet supported
2020-05-13 16:18:03	login	why?
2020-05-13 16:20:51	~tiwesdaeg	it smells funny
2020-05-13 16:20:57	@julienxx	login: time essentially
2020-05-13 16:21:11	@julienxx	it's planned though
2020-05-13 16:21:12	login	ah
2020-05-13 16:21:45	login	well, it's a good project, will it be published on the play store?
2020-05-13 16:23:52	@julienxx	for mobile phones? Never though about that, there is already a real Android client in the works
2020-05-13 16:24:06	~tiwesdaeg	both android gopher clients suck
2020-05-13 16:24:11	~tiwesdaeg	is there a gemini client?
2020-05-13 16:24:26	@julienxx	yes let me find where I saw that
2020-05-13 16:25:27	~tiwesdaeg	not pulling anything up in f-droid
2020-05-13 16:28:08	@julienxx	it's not released yet but I saw someone working on one, can't find where
2020-05-13 16:28:18	~tiwesdaeg	ahh
2020-05-13 16:28:35	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk's software list can take a bit to update sometimes
2020-05-13 16:28:56	@tomasino	i appreciated his "content first" mailing list email the other day
2020-05-13 16:29:55	~tiwesdaeg	https://framagit.org/waweic/gemini-client
2020-05-13 16:30:18	@julienxx	yes it's that one!
2020-05-13 16:30:27	~tiwesdaeg	I updated my phlog/gemlog just to make some extra content after reading that
2020-05-13 16:30:51	~tiwesdaeg	and I got added t one of the aggregators
2020-05-13 16:31:46	@julienxx	did my part today too
2020-05-13 16:38:26	@julienxx	with all those clients and servers being developed it would be a shame not to see more content
2020-05-13 16:39:11	@julienxx	I like gemini://vi.rs and gemini://astrobotany.mozz.us
2020-05-13 16:39:59	@tomasino	i'm revisiting by ~black page now
2020-05-13 16:40:03	@tomasino	giving it some life
2020-05-13 16:41:22	~tiwesdaeg	I like the icon usage on astrobotany
2020-05-13 16:42:33	@julienxx	on ~.black the stoned.txt are awesome!
2020-05-13 16:42:43	@tomasino	i love that theme
2020-05-13 16:42:44	@tomasino	haha
2020-05-13 16:43:11	@tomasino	just fixed some indexing for the user pages so bombadillo doesn't throw redirect notices on links
2020-05-13 16:43:17	@tomasino	okay, i need ot build castor
2020-05-13 16:43:19	@tomasino	what do i do?
2020-05-13 16:43:46	@julienxx	I can make you a build if you prefer
2020-05-13 16:43:56	@julienxx	I'm on my Ubuntu machine right now
2020-05-13 16:43:59	@tomasino	oh nice
2020-05-13 16:44:01	@tomasino	i love that
2020-05-13 16:44:55	@tomasino	is my ascii art on ~black looking okay on your end? maybe just a problem with the older build?
2020-05-13 16:44:59	@tomasino	i think i code fenced it
2020-05-13 16:45:11	@tomasino	nope
2020-05-13 16:45:12	@tomasino	i'm dumb
2020-05-13 16:45:14	@tomasino	one sec!
2020-05-13 16:45:52	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: looks fine from an openbsd build of castor
2020-05-13 16:45:52	@tomasino	fixed!
2020-05-13 16:45:56	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-13 16:46:02	@tomasino	i didn't have code fencing on my header
2020-05-13 16:46:35	~tiwesdaeg	I need to rebuild castor for the new update
2020-05-13 16:47:01	@julienxx	tomasino: here you are https://juliensharing.s3.amazonaws.com/castor-0.8.4-ubuntu.zip
2020-05-13 16:47:19	@julienxx	I really need to setup a proper FTP and stop using aws
2020-05-13 16:47:49	@tomasino	3thanks!
2020-05-13 16:47:54	@julienxx	much better with the code fences :)
2020-05-13 16:47:55	@tomasino	hrm, my ## users header is falling off
2020-05-13 16:48:04	@tomasino	lemme try the new version
2020-05-13 16:49:04	@tomasino	hrm, still missing
2020-05-13 16:49:04	jan6	lol, how bad of an idea would it be to pack up an android app that's literally a terminal emulator running a program or few? ;P
2020-05-13 16:50:08	@tomasino	do you see anything wrong with my header syntax on the tilde.black index page, julienxx ?
2020-05-13 16:50:15	@tomasino	## Users
2020-05-13 16:50:30	@julienxx	no I can see it, did you customize the colors?
2020-05-13 16:51:58	@tomasino	i did, probably screwed that up
2020-05-13 16:52:00	@tomasino	uno momento
2020-05-13 16:52:00	@julienxx	like h2 color would be the same as background?
2020-05-13 16:53:18	~tiwesdaeg	0.8.4 builds successfully!
2020-05-13 16:53:35	@julienxx	yay! What system are you using?
2020-05-13 16:53:38	@tomasino	must have been, yeah
2020-05-13 16:53:44	@tomasino	picknig a better color now
2020-05-13 16:55:53	~tiwesdaeg	h selector worked perfectly and was handed off to firefox
2020-05-13 16:56:12	@tomasino	this is sexy my man
2020-05-13 16:56:21	~tiwesdaeg	isn't it
2020-05-13 16:56:27	~tiwesdaeg	you like that icon ;P
2020-05-13 16:56:45	~tiwesdaeg	I don't get to see it since I am using CWM right now
2020-05-13 16:56:48	@tomasino	icon?
2020-05-13 16:56:58	@tomasino	i don't get one of those with the build, i don't think
2020-05-13 16:57:01	~tiwesdaeg	what WM/DE are you uisng?
2020-05-13 16:57:05	@tomasino	gnome
2020-05-13 16:57:19	~tiwesdaeg	ahh, it's probably part of make install
2020-05-13 16:57:24	@tomasino	yeah
2020-05-13 16:57:26	@tomasino	likely
2020-05-13 16:57:35	@tomasino	i should get around to doing that though
2020-05-13 16:57:37	~tiwesdaeg	it installs a .desktop file
2020-05-13 16:57:44	@tomasino	this deserves to become a default handler for gemini
2020-05-13 16:57:48	~tiwesdaeg	just needs a little rust
2020-05-13 16:58:11	~tiwesdaeg	should be easy peasy on linux
2020-05-13 16:59:02	jan6	rust?!?
2020-05-13 16:59:28	@julienxx	yeah I should provide a step by step installation process someday, I don't remember which dependencies I had to install for GTK
2020-05-13 16:59:33	@tomasino	brool is so damn cool
2020-05-13 16:59:50	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: I think the problem is, each distro will be different
2020-05-13 17:00:08	~tiwesdaeg	and then bsd's are even more different
2020-05-13 17:00:38	@julienxx	yeah I only have OpenBSD and Ubuntu at hand and not really the time to fiddle with the most common distros
2020-05-13 17:01:56	@julienxx	tomasino: I use Castor as my default handler for gopher and gemini, works great. I am always surprised to see my tool pop up :)
2020-05-13 17:01:59	jan6	debian/ubuntu, arch, freebsd and openbsd, should give a pretty wide base, possibly fedora too
2020-05-13 17:03:02	@julienxx	someone told me about openbuild https://build.opensuse.org/ that might be a solution but haven't looked into it yet
2020-05-13 17:03:35	@julienxx	flatpak is possible but has too much haters
2020-05-13 17:04:08	jan6	flatpak, eeeh
2020-05-13 17:04:24	jan6	I'd take an AppImae over a flatpak any day
2020-05-13 17:04:29	jan6	*AppImage
2020-05-13 17:10:53	@julienxx	Hmm will look into AppImage
2020-05-13 17:11:17	@julienxx	Does it work like out of the box?
2020-05-13 17:19:08	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like you needed something still
2020-05-13 17:19:55	~tiwesdaeg	maybe that was flatpak
2020-05-13 17:20:14	⚡	tiwesdaeg pulls out his laptop with debian on it
2020-05-13 17:24:14	~tiwesdaeg	mmmm 160 kb/s max
2020-05-13 17:29:17	~tiwesdaeg	it does work as advertised
2020-05-13 17:29:36	~tiwesdaeg	I made it executable and ran it
2020-05-13 17:35:34	~tiwesdaeg	Which browsers support client tls keys?
2020-05-13 17:39:47	jan6	AppImage should work out of the box, pretty much, because the idea is that you put all the dependecies inside it
2020-05-13 17:45:22	~tiwesdaeg	it the macos app concept
2020-05-13 17:45:40	~tiwesdaeg	/s/it/it's
2020-05-13 17:57:26	jan6	idk anything about macs
2020-05-13 17:57:48	⚡	jan6 wonders what cipher suites should be supported with gemini TLS
2020-05-13 18:05:42	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-05-13 18:06:46	~tiwesdaeg	jetforce supports cgi, but I seem to be failing to input data into a cgi script like script.cgi?someinfo
2020-05-13 18:13:50	@tomasino	appimage++
2020-05-13 18:14:07	@tomasino	i LOVE appimages
2020-05-13 18:14:11	@tomasino	chmod 755 and run
2020-05-13 18:14:11	@tomasino	done
2020-05-13 18:14:12	jan6	no bitbot, but yeah, appimages are cool AND simple
2020-05-13 18:14:35	@tomasino	oh, yeah, i have bitbot ignored everywhere but meta anyway. :D ++ all the things
2020-05-13 18:14:58	jan6	and all it is is an executable archive with a specific format, that you can unpack and run unpacked form too
2020-05-13 18:15:02	jan6	which is extra cool
2020-05-13 18:20:58	~tiwesdaeg	anyone get gemserv to compile?
2020-05-13 18:28:53	@julienxx	tomasino: if you ever want to compile it yourself someone added this on the HN post: apt install build-essential rustc cargo libgtk-3-dev libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev libssl-dev then make and make install
2020-05-13 18:33:36	@julienxx	someone added MacOS instructions too https://tcp.rip/text/misc/install-castor.txt.html
2020-05-13 18:50:33	login	tcp.rip, what a cool url
2020-05-13 19:08:29		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-13 20:09:56	@tomasino	doing the apt stuffs
2020-05-13 20:10:02	@tomasino	i'll clone in a few
2020-05-13 20:19:36	@tomasino	gtk sure does take a bit to build
2020-05-13 20:19:37	⚡	tomasino waits
2020-05-13 20:21:54	@tomasino	install victory
2020-05-13 20:21:58	@tomasino	now i have a prety icon
2020-05-13 20:22:07	@tomasino	okay, how do i make it the default gopher & gemini handler now
2020-05-13 20:26:16	@tomasino	solved it
2020-05-13 20:26:18	@tomasino	yay!
2020-05-13 20:26:21	@tomasino	castor awesomeness
2020-05-13 20:44:36	@julienxx	Cool :)
2020-05-13 20:56:15	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-05-13 21:45:57		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-13 23:12:46	▬▬▶	TheToon has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 00:01:52		TheToon has left #gemini
2020-05-14 03:54:00	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 07:16:26		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-14 07:21:15	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 07:54:38		lucidiot has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-14 07:55:04	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 09:47:43	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 10:38:52	@julienxx	Fresh paint gemini://typed-hole.org, what do you think?
2020-05-14 11:07:43	cmccabe	very nice, julienxx! that's not figlet, it is?
2020-05-14 11:51:54	@julienxx	no :) the letters come from https://fsymbols.com/
2020-05-14 12:52:05	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: will castor eventually support type 9 selector?
2020-05-14 12:52:33	~tiwesdaeg	gopher.libraryoferis.org is chock full of pdf files
2020-05-14 12:52:34	login	yes
2020-05-14 12:53:31	@julienxx	it will
2020-05-14 12:53:33	login	just need to learn how to parse pdf files
2020-05-14 12:54:26	~tiwesdaeg	I'm still at a standstill for cgi support to port the site over to gemini
2020-05-14 12:54:29	@julienxx	Castor will download the file and open it with any app assiciated with .pdf thanks to xdg-open, let me see if I can quickly add it
2020-05-14 12:54:38	~tiwesdaeg	I'll try getting gemserv to compile again
2020-05-14 12:55:05	~tiwesdaeg	I've tried debian's version of rust, I used rustup, I tried using nightly
2020-05-14 12:55:11	~tiwesdaeg	that thing hates me
2020-05-14 12:55:42	~tiwesdaeg	right now it just displays the raw gophermap link
2020-05-14 12:56:05	~tiwesdaeg	is there a default to just download the file?
2020-05-14 12:56:16	~tiwesdaeg	that's what most gopher clients seem to do
2020-05-14 13:40:10	@julienxx	I can build gemserv using stable rust from rustup on Ubuntu
2020-05-14 13:44:46	@julienxx	Castor 0.8.6 pushed with binary files support
2020-05-14 14:03:11		tuesday has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-14 14:08:29	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 14:09:48	tuesday	julienxx:  I'll try and wipe my rustup instal and try again
2020-05-14 14:10:06	tuesday	this is the box I am trying to get it to build on
2020-05-14 14:21:49	tuesday	ok, now it compile
2020-05-14 14:21:51	tuesday	s
2020-05-14 14:35:38	ben	is there a geminid that supports ~/public_gemini dirs for users?
2020-05-14 14:35:59	ben	i know tomasino wrote some cronjob that looks for new ones and sets up symlinks
2020-05-14 14:36:05	ben	don't really feel like doing that :P
2020-05-14 14:43:49	~tiwesdaeg	ben: molly-brown supports user public_gemini directories
2020-05-14 14:43:55	~tiwesdaeg	gemserv does too
2020-05-14 14:43:58	@tomasino	Jetforce currently doesn't do vdirs, but Molly...
2020-05-14 14:44:19	@tomasino	I faked it on black with symlinks
2020-05-14 14:44:25	~tiwesdaeg	tilde.pink is running molly-brown and it's working great
2020-05-14 14:44:35	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I originally did the same
2020-05-14 14:44:37	ben	mm ok i think i will switch to that
2020-05-14 14:44:47	~tiwesdaeg	I'm poking at gemserv right now
2020-05-14 14:44:52	ben	can you link the repo? i'm not finding it currently
2020-05-14 14:45:00	~tiwesdaeg	if I can get it running, it also fully supports cgi
2020-05-14 14:45:19	~tiwesdaeg	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/molly-brown
2020-05-14 14:45:52	cmccabe	tiwesdaeg: doesn't molly brown require the admin to manually link to each user's public_gemini?
2020-05-14 14:45:58	ben	mmm nice
2020-05-14 14:46:00	ben	thx
2020-05-14 14:46:25	~tiwesdaeg	cmccabe: nope
2020-05-14 14:47:13	@tomasino	Every account on black has public_gemini and public_html and public_gopher. Users show up in the listings when they add the default index file in each
2020-05-14 14:47:13	cmccabe	is there a config option? i had to set up symlinks from /var/gemini/users/username to each user (or at least i thought that was required)
2020-05-14 14:48:37	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/tilde.black/ops/src/branch/master/creategemini.sh
2020-05-14 14:49:04	~tiwesdaeg	in my /etc/molly.conf I have this line: HomeDocBase = "users"
2020-05-14 14:49:35	@tomasino	I think tiwesdaeg's solution is easier
2020-05-14 14:49:37	@tomasino	;)
2020-05-14 14:50:16	cmccabe	where docbase is /var/gemini?
2020-05-14 14:51:00	~tiwesdaeg	I still have a script that runs and looks to see if there is an index.gmi in each user's public_gemini folder to add a link to the main page
2020-05-14 14:51:13	~tiwesdaeg	yep
2020-05-14 14:51:19	cmccabe	the gemini docs say "Note that Molly Brown does not look inside user's actual home directories like you may expect based on experience with other server software. Of course, you can symlink /var/gemini/users/gus/ to /home/gus/public_gemini/ if you want."
2020-05-14 14:51:34	~tiwesdaeg	whatever it's doing, it works
2020-05-14 14:51:40	cmccabe	huh, interesting. thanks!
2020-05-14 14:51:49	cmccabe	maybe the docs are outdated
2020-05-14 14:52:14	cmccabe	what is your server url, tiwesdaeg?
2020-05-14 14:53:30	~tiwesdaeg	let me test it out
2020-05-14 14:53:34	~tiwesdaeg	tilde.pink
2020-05-14 14:54:31	~tiwesdaeg	ok, yeah, I still ahve a lot of holdover from jetforce
2020-05-14 14:54:42	cmccabe	oh yeah, tilde.pink, i knew that :P
2020-05-14 14:54:53	~tiwesdaeg	I might just be giant idiot ;P
2020-05-14 14:56:20	~tiwesdaeg	I was having a weird issue were one of the new users had multiple links added by my script
2020-05-14 14:56:32	cmccabe	tangent: i walked within 1/4 mile of molly brown's home in denver colorado last fall and didn't realize it.  i blew the chance to an epic selfie (even though i don't do selfies)
2020-05-14 14:57:09	~tiwesdaeg	ok, maybe I do need symlinks hrmm
2020-05-14 14:57:25	~tiwesdaeg	I get so few new users
2020-05-14 14:57:54	~tiwesdaeg	ok, I guess it's time to sort out gemserv
2020-05-14 14:58:06	ben	is there a list of server softwares?
2020-05-14 14:58:30	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/
2020-05-14 15:03:04	ben	why isn't that linked anywhere
2020-05-14 15:05:41	ben	bombadillo isn't loading that...
2020-05-14 15:05:42	~tiwesdaeg	well, it's linked on the main gemini page at gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-05-14 15:06:11	~tiwesdaeg	works on my version of bombadillo
2020-05-14 15:06:19	~tiwesdaeg	is yours the older version without gemini support?
2020-05-14 15:06:20	ben	would be nice if it were on the gopher or http version so you can find a client to view the list...
2020-05-14 15:06:29	ben	i just built again from master
2020-05-14 15:07:02	~tiwesdaeg	I think the idea is to put all the content on gemini
2020-05-14 15:07:22	~tiwesdaeg	there's been talk about making it easier for people to install browsers
2020-05-14 15:07:26	ben	if you don't have a client or server how will you find it
2020-05-14 15:07:30	~tiwesdaeg	since you have to compile everything
2020-05-14 15:07:36	ben	chicken and egg problem
2020-05-14 15:07:55	ben	also no note of there being more info on gemini
2020-05-14 15:08:12	ben	No matching certificate was found for host "gemini.circumlunar.space"
2020-05-14 15:08:14	ben	huh
2020-05-14 15:08:31	~tiwesdaeg	umm something about purging certs
2020-05-14 15:09:19	ben	why is this so hard lol
2020-05-14 15:09:30	~tiwesdaeg	try this, hit space to get the prompt and enter "purge gemini.circumlunar.space"
2020-05-14 15:09:33	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-05-14 15:09:51	ben	why do i have to do that
2020-05-14 15:09:59	~tiwesdaeg	security?
2020-05-14 15:10:06	~tiwesdaeg	I dunno
2020-05-14 15:10:08	ben	what does that help
2020-05-14 15:10:13	⚡	ben annoyed
2020-05-14 15:10:17	ben	if you can't tell lol
2020-05-14 15:10:28	~tiwesdaeg	it lets you know that the cert has changed
2020-05-14 15:10:41	ben	it didn't though
2020-05-14 15:10:53	~tiwesdaeg	no clue then
2020-05-14 15:11:35	~tiwesdaeg	gemserv is not working well for me
2020-05-14 15:11:51	ben	bleh i will deal with this later
2020-05-14 15:11:53	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://libraryoferis.org/
2020-05-14 15:12:05	~tiwesdaeg	instead of loading index.gmi, we get a directory listing
2020-05-14 15:12:15	~tiwesdaeg	then it fails when selecting a link
2020-05-14 15:12:34	~tiwesdaeg	thread 'tokio-runtime-worker' panicked at 'called `Option::unwrap()` on a `None` value', src/main.rs:39:13
2020-05-14 15:12:42	~tiwesdaeg	rust hates mes
2020-05-14 15:13:41	ben	:<
2020-05-14 15:41:03		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-14 15:48:05	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 15:52:37	@julienxx	tiwesdaeg: from the source it seems it expects an index.gemini
2020-05-14 15:59:16	@julienxx	is your gopher server down on gopher://gopher.libraryoferis.org or it's on my side?
2020-05-14 16:12:38	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I rebooted the vps and never created systemd script for geomyidae
2020-05-14 16:13:20	~tiwesdaeg	did we never come up with a standard file type for gemini?
2020-05-14 16:13:28	~tiwesdaeg	most of the servers have been using .gmi
2020-05-14 16:15:39	~tiwesdaeg	thanks for the tip, .gemini worked for the index
2020-05-14 16:18:23	~tiwesdaeg	next trick, will the cgi do what I want
2020-05-14 16:31:33	~tiwesdaeg	all my cgi scripts kill all the browsers :(
2020-05-14 16:32:56	~tiwesdaeg	ok, av-98 is working
2020-05-14 16:34:10	@julienxx	in the spec .gmi and .gemini are both valid, I use .gemini for my content
2020-05-14 16:42:45	~tiwesdaeg	hmm
2020-05-14 16:43:21	~tiwesdaeg	I'm trying to figure out why the cgi scripts cause bombadillo and castor to crash, but av-98 is working fine
2020-05-14 16:43:39	@julienxx	do you have an URL I could try?
2020-05-14 16:43:57	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/test.cgi
2020-05-14 16:45:09	~tiwesdaeg	it's basically "printf "20 text/gemini\n"
2020-05-14 16:45:21	~tiwesdaeg	printf "\n"
2020-05-14 16:45:35	~tiwesdaeg	printf "test\n"
2020-05-14 16:46:51	@julienxx	For Castor it's because you didn't add a clrf (\r\n) I think
2020-05-14 16:47:24	~tiwesdaeg	is clrf a requirement in the spec?
2020-05-14 16:48:14	~tiwesdaeg	that was it for bombadillo too
2020-05-14 16:49:44	@julienxx	I think so
2020-05-14 16:50:44	@julienxx	Yes from the spec "Gemini response headers look like this: <STATUS><whitespace><META><CR><LF>"
2020-05-14 16:52:38	~tiwesdaeg	thanks for the help
2020-05-14 16:53:06	~tiwesdaeg	let's see if I can get the next part to work
2020-05-14 16:56:12	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/item.cgi?LOE00001
2020-05-14 16:56:18	~tiwesdaeg	progress!
2020-05-14 16:56:35	@julienxx	that's cool!
2020-05-14 16:56:59	~tiwesdaeg	with geomyidae, the variable for the query string is $2
2020-05-14 16:57:15	~tiwesdaeg	I had to change it to $QUERY_STRING
2020-05-14 16:57:49	~tiwesdaeg	ok, now to get the python script to output the correct link type
2020-05-14 17:03:40	@tomasino	didn't the cr/lf thing get changed in discussion on the mailing list to be more flexible?
2020-05-14 17:03:49	@tomasino	did that never make it back in the spec?
2020-05-14 17:10:27	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/item.cgi?LOE00001
2020-05-14 17:10:33	~tiwesdaeg	the TXT link works!
2020-05-14 17:47:56	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 17:49:40	xq	hey
2020-05-14 17:51:49	~tiwesdaeg	yo
2020-05-14 17:53:32	xq	just discovered gemini and checking out some corners
2020-05-14 17:54:13	~tiwesdaeg	I'm working using cgi for dynamic gemini content
2020-05-14 17:54:40	xq	oh neat!
2020-05-14 17:54:51	xq	if you're on the ML, i'm the dude that just joined with a Zig project
2020-05-14 17:56:56	~tiwesdaeg	I remember seeing Zig on there
2020-05-14 17:58:27	xq	oh really?
2020-05-14 18:00:49	~tiwesdaeg	I was just poking through the mailing list and Zig sounds familiar
2020-05-14 18:01:20	xq	ah
2020-05-14 18:01:21	xq	br_ssl_engine_last_error
2020-05-14 18:01:24	xq	https://ziglang.org/
2020-05-14 18:01:30	xq	my clipboard is so broken
2020-05-14 18:03:14	~tiwesdaeg	ahh, you're the guy with the esset in his name
2020-05-14 18:04:02	xq	yep
2020-05-14 18:04:18	~tiwesdaeg	what sets zig apart from other languages?
2020-05-14 18:05:00	xq	give me a sec, food was just delivered :D
2020-05-14 18:05:05	xq	important interrupt
2020-05-14 18:16:54	@tomasino	oh, solderpunk's last question was a good one
2020-05-14 18:17:03	~tiwesdaeg	I've got to go out and dig a posthole for a fence :(
2020-05-14 18:17:04	@tomasino	about hosting IRC logs in gemini space
2020-05-14 18:17:33	@tomasino	i could probably rig that up
2020-05-14 18:18:17	@julienxx	That would be cool, I have no idea on how it’s achievable though
2020-05-14 18:18:38	~tiwesdaeg	ugh, new project?
2020-05-14 18:18:52	@julienxx	I have a bouncer maybe I could extract stuff from there but there must be a better way
2020-05-14 18:19:06	xq	quick info: i already host some irc logs on http
2020-05-14 18:19:11	~tiwesdaeg	so, one big txt file accessible via gemini?
2020-05-14 18:19:21	xq	having a gemini server that serves these logs shoudn't be that hard
2020-05-14 18:19:27	~tiwesdaeg	or chop it up by day/month
2020-05-14 18:19:37	xq	usually you host logs in a /year/month/day directory
2020-05-14 18:19:41	xq	it's too much otherwise
2020-05-14 18:19:45	~tiwesdaeg	hmm
2020-05-14 18:20:07	~tiwesdaeg	can weechat store logs in that manner?
2020-05-14 18:20:45	@tomasino	well, normally it's one big file
2020-05-14 18:20:45	ben	you could point logrotate at weechat logs probably
2020-05-14 18:20:50	ben	they're one big file though
2020-05-14 18:20:53	@tomasino	but there's timestamps in there, so you could cron it
2020-05-14 18:21:05	@tomasino	and break it up and generate stuff each night
2020-05-14 18:21:15	ben	logrotate can do all that for you
2020-05-14 18:21:20	@tomasino	oh nice
2020-05-14 18:21:24	@tomasino	well logrotate++
2020-05-14 18:21:26	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-14 18:21:43	@tomasino	could be a nice time to learn that. I could run it on this box and then scp it over to ~black
2020-05-14 18:21:52	ben	sure
2020-05-14 18:22:01	@tomasino	or rsync or whatever
2020-05-14 18:22:41	@tomasino	before i jump in and have a rando section in fox's page, anyone else feel like this is their new calling and want to do it instead?
2020-05-14 18:23:15	xq	i wanted to try that as well
2020-05-14 18:23:23	xq	based on my logger
2020-05-14 18:23:58	@tomasino	have at it xq
2020-05-14 18:24:10	@tomasino	lemme know if you hit a snag or get bored. :)
2020-05-14 18:25:15	xq	yeah
2020-05-14 18:25:22	xq	right now i still have to work on my client though
2020-05-14 18:25:29	xq	trying to get it running with BearSSL
2020-05-14 18:28:09	xq	<tiwesdaeg> what sets zig apart from other languages?
2020-05-14 18:29:00	xq	It's a sane version of C, multiplatform as a true first-class use case, generics/templates are supported via arbitrary comptile time execution, no dependency on the C ecosystem, but near-100% compatibility
2020-05-14 18:30:59	~tiwesdaeg	I noticed it looked very familiar
2020-05-14 18:31:26	xq	it's syntax is "quite" different though, even if it looks very familar at first glance
2020-05-14 18:31:51	xq	what is also nice: there is *no* hidden control flow, you can recognize the control flow of any snippet at first glance
2020-05-14 18:32:56	xq	it's really funny, i immediatly found some code smells in BearSSL because they store their key data as mutable strings instead of const ones
2020-05-14 18:42:07	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 18:46:02	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 18:46:20	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 18:46:48	sloum	Man, the mailing list has been blowing up today :)
2020-05-14 18:49:56		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-14 18:52:53	~tiwesdaeg	hey sloum!
2020-05-14 18:53:29	plugd	not just the mailing list - some kind stranger just sent me a gemini-related patch for elpher, despite my having the most convoluted contribution system in history. A tiny thing, but I'm chuffed! :-)  The slashdot/HN effect...
2020-05-14 18:55:00	xq	It may correlate with my way to gemini:
2020-05-14 18:55:15	xq	someone posted the link to Castor on hackernews and it was like place 3 for some hours
2020-05-14 18:55:20	sloum	I have also been sent patch requests and the like. This level of activity is kind of exciting.
2020-05-14 18:55:24	xq	so a lot of coverage
2020-05-14 18:55:55	sloum	Yeah! I read through a lot of the comments on there. People seem to be digging it. Really cool.
2020-05-14 18:56:01	makeworld	It's great!
2020-05-14 18:56:07	makeworld	And yeah a lot of email today
2020-05-14 18:57:09	plugd	It's a nice change from the first (?) time it appeared half a year ago or so, I remember the response then being a bit negative.  I wonder what's changed?
2020-05-14 18:57:52	xq	plugd: i feel that people are getting more and more fed up with the modern web, all this cookie compliance crap, javascript monsters, pages that serve 100 byte of text with 10 Megs of bloat
2020-05-14 18:58:02	makeworld	plugd: Oh really, on HN or something?
2020-05-14 19:00:51	xq	makeworld: i think it's enough if you answer your emails to the list :D
2020-05-14 19:01:04	xq	otherwise solderpunk will receive it twice
2020-05-14 19:01:53	makeworld	xq: Are you talking about the email I just sent, because I CC'ed solderpunk?
2020-05-14 19:02:02	makeworld	I didn't meant to, I guess I hit reply all
2020-05-14 19:02:06	xq	yep :D
2020-05-14 19:02:08	makeworld	Also how did you know?
2020-05-14 19:02:21	xq	i read emails, and you can see that you set a whole set of headers
2020-05-14 19:02:28	makeworld	Oh ok
2020-05-14 19:02:29	xq	if you use thunderbird, there's a nice "reply list" button now
2020-05-14 19:02:30	makeworld	Whoops
2020-05-14 19:02:48	xq	otherwise the headers of the (incoming) mail should be set right by mailman
2020-05-14 19:02:52	xq	so you can just hit replace
2020-05-14 19:02:53	xq	*reply
2020-05-14 19:03:05	xq	oh, they aren't anymore :(
2020-05-14 19:07:30	plugd	makeworld: ok, forget it - did a quick search and cant find any older HN post. Must have seen it somewhere else.
2020-05-14 19:07:57	makeworld	Huh
2020-05-14 19:10:18	sloum	Oh, sorry tiwesdaeg. missed your hello. Hi!
2020-05-14 19:14:38	ben	does solderpunk do irc?
2020-05-14 19:14:42	@tomasino	not often
2020-05-14 19:14:42	ben	would be good to get him on here
2020-05-14 19:14:59	ben	bummer
2020-05-14 19:15:05	@tomasino	he's been on before... maybe not this server. Maybe SDF? i forget
2020-05-14 19:15:07	@tomasino	it's rare
2020-05-14 19:15:36	@tomasino	it's okay. it's like gopher. There's little micro communities. There's still that one on comp.infosystems.gopher on USENET that's truckin' along
2020-05-14 19:15:50	ben	i still feel sometimes that people don't exist if they're not on irc
2020-05-14 19:15:54	@tomasino	hah
2020-05-14 19:15:58	@tomasino	that's cause this is your house!
2020-05-14 19:16:08	ben	i rarely check anything else
2020-05-14 19:16:34	xq	ben: i know this feel, IRC is really a nice place to be
2020-05-14 19:17:06	ben	:)
2020-05-14 19:17:21	ben	don't think i've seen you around before xq
2020-05-14 19:17:23	ben	welcome!
2020-05-14 19:17:41	xq	yeah, i joined earlier
2020-05-14 19:17:56	ben	which tilde are you on?
2020-05-14 19:18:04	xq	found gemini on HN yesterday and it looks cool
2020-05-14 19:18:15	ben	ahh nice
2020-05-14 19:19:07	xq	<ben> which tilde are you on?
2020-05-14 19:19:09	xq	wdym? :D
2020-05-14 19:19:36	ben	this irc network was created for the tildeverse (gopher/http tildeverse.org)
2020-05-14 19:20:28	@tomasino	ahh yes, some folks finding there way here only know about gemini!
2020-05-14 19:20:35	xq	i'm new to all of this :D
2020-05-14 19:20:35	@tomasino	definitely check out tildeverse.org 
2020-05-14 19:21:11	xq	it feels really oldschool
2020-05-14 19:21:29	ben	tilde.club is the original
2020-05-14 19:21:33	@tomasino	we make everything new again
2020-05-14 19:21:35	ben	i started tilde.team
2020-05-14 19:21:35	@tomasino	:)
2020-05-14 19:21:37	ben	etc
2020-05-14 19:21:44	@tomasino	i run cosmic.voyage and tilde.black
2020-05-14 19:21:57	@tomasino	#cosmic and #black in irc respectively
2020-05-14 19:22:06	xq	so do i understand this right? each tilde is a server?
2020-05-14 19:22:11	@tomasino	yep
2020-05-14 19:22:27	@tomasino	individually run and operated and open to free shell accounts for whoever
2020-05-14 19:22:35	@tomasino	micro communities for fun and learning
2020-05-14 19:22:43	@tomasino	a ~ (home) on the internet
2020-05-14 19:22:44	xq	sounds cool
2020-05-14 19:23:13	@tomasino	team has a bajillion services to offer. tilde.town is an art community. cosmic.voyage is a collaborative sci-fi story-writing thing. 
2020-05-14 19:23:16	@tomasino	every one has their own flavor
2020-05-14 19:23:29	xq	yeah grasped that already
2020-05-14 19:24:18	plugd	xq: you're not alone, I'm another out-of-towner here due to gemini :-)
2020-05-14 19:24:25	xq	heh
2020-05-14 19:24:44	ben	well cool :)
2020-05-14 19:25:07	⚡	xq learns a lot new these days
2020-05-14 19:25:13	xq	i learnt that gemini exists
2020-05-14 19:25:17	@tomasino	heh, yeah
2020-05-14 19:25:18	xq	now i have to learn how to SSL
2020-05-14 19:25:32	xq	and now i learnt that there are cool people doing stuff with *nixes
2020-05-14 19:25:32	ben	lots of stuff out there :)
2020-05-14 19:26:04	@tomasino	hop around and explore. most tildes are open to new users if you see something that catches your eye
2020-05-14 19:26:37	xq	yeah, step by step :)
2020-05-14 19:26:48	xq	i have too many projects anyways :D
2020-05-14 19:27:00	xq	any tilde for HW/FPGA devs? :D
2020-05-14 19:27:36	@tomasino	hrm, great question
2020-05-14 19:27:56	@tomasino	not my wheelhouse, but ask in #meta and maybe someone can advise
2020-05-14 19:29:11	plugd	solderpunk's a hardware nerd (see gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/~solderpunk/) so his tlide might be a place to start looking
2020-05-14 19:29:36	⚡	tiwesdaeg waves from tilde.pink
2020-05-14 19:29:49	~tiwesdaeg	one post hole dug, hooray
2020-05-14 19:29:54	@tomasino	i think circumlunar.space is pretty minimal
2020-05-14 19:29:57	@tomasino	but who knows
2020-05-14 19:29:58	~tiwesdaeg	it feels like summer is finally here
2020-05-14 19:30:11	@tomasino	there's always tilde.team and tilde.institute that offer a broad variety of things and big communities
2020-05-14 19:30:23	xq	never used gopher before :D
2020-05-14 19:30:27	xq	what are good clients?
2020-05-14 19:30:28	cmccabe	i always like to point out that tildes are just one form of a broader category called public access unix systems, or pubnixes.  not all pubnixes (like zaibatsu) are tildes
2020-05-14 19:30:32	@tomasino	lynx is the easiest, xq 
2020-05-14 19:30:44	@tomasino	but vf1, bombodillo, and castor can be good too
2020-05-14 19:30:48	@tomasino	you may have castor for gemini already
2020-05-14 19:31:54	xq	ah
2020-05-14 19:31:59	xq	gemini definitly is very minimal :D
2020-05-14 19:32:05	@tomasino	heh, yeah
2020-05-14 19:32:09	@tomasino	gopher is my happy place though
2020-05-14 19:32:13	@tomasino	#gopher here
2020-05-14 19:33:44	xq	damn, you all are distracting me! :D
2020-05-14 19:33:50	@tomasino	haha
2020-05-14 19:33:54	xq	i should stop reading and get back to my certificate stuff
2020-05-14 19:33:54	@tomasino	we're good at that
2020-05-14 19:33:55	~tiwesdaeg	many rabbit holes
2020-05-14 19:34:03	xq	tomasino: good! :)
2020-05-14 19:34:15	@tomasino	if you do want to try out gopher, tilde.pink is a great little place to start
2020-05-14 19:34:54	~tiwesdaeg	we use geomyidae for gopherd
2020-05-14 19:35:19	~tiwesdaeg	nice easy to read link syntax and very flexible with cgi
2020-05-14 19:35:37		plugd has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-14 19:36:02	@tomasino	very friendly indeed for new gopherites
2020-05-14 19:36:23	@tomasino	even if tilde.pink is only 73% as cool as tilde.black. just sayin'....
2020-05-14 19:36:25	@tomasino	:P
2020-05-14 19:36:42	~tiwesdaeg	;P
2020-05-14 19:36:57	@tomasino	but on black we run motsognir, which is like gopher in hard-mode. 
2020-05-14 19:37:04	@tomasino	so yeah, pink!
2020-05-14 19:37:16	~tiwesdaeg	must write raw gophermap from memory!
2020-05-14 19:37:22	@tomasino	pretty much!
2020-05-14 19:37:22	~tiwesdaeg	it's like tar commands
2020-05-14 19:37:26	@tomasino	haha
2020-05-14 19:37:44	@tomasino	i wonder if i could make a suicide-linux style tilde. Not that deletes the whole system, just the user's account on error
2020-05-14 19:38:10	~tiwesdaeg	probably pretty simple
2020-05-14 19:38:15	@tomasino	yeah
2020-05-14 19:38:23	@tomasino	hmmmm
2020-05-14 19:38:27	⚡	tomasino wastes time
2020-05-14 19:38:33	~tiwesdaeg	restrict to one shell
2020-05-14 19:38:50	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure what part of the shell responds with command not found or whatever
2020-05-14 19:39:06	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 19:39:15	~tiwesdaeg	just have it triggered to like rm -r ~/*
2020-05-14 19:39:47	~tiwesdaeg	and to terminate the ssh connection
2020-05-14 19:40:29	~tiwesdaeg	then have a script that looks for empty user directories and cleans up everything
2020-05-14 19:40:38	plugd	cmccabe: ah yes, sorry, s/tilde/pubnix/
2020-05-14 19:41:00	xq	tiwesdaeg: drop connection, replace user shell with /bin/nologin
2020-05-14 19:41:00	@tomasino	yeah, you could trap errors and handle it that way. limiting the shell choice would be a big part of it
2020-05-14 19:41:14	@tomasino	and of course you need to make sure it's using dash for extra hard-mode
2020-05-14 19:41:48	@tomasino	no worries plugd. the distinction gets tricky even for tilde admins sometimes
2020-05-14 19:43:43	~tiwesdaeg	most of us allow key only login anyway
2020-05-14 19:44:09	~tiwesdaeg	I don't even bother generating a user passwd unless a user requests it, for something like chsh
2020-05-14 19:44:27	@tomasino	hmmm, good point
2020-05-14 19:45:06	~tiwesdaeg	technically I am running imap now, but I'm pretty sure it's not in large demand
2020-05-14 19:46:04	@tomasino	oh, i need to mess with my postfix soon
2020-05-14 19:46:29	@tomasino	i have cosmic locked from sending out emails except to other tildes and pubnix, but the list has grown since i set it up. Need to add a lot more destinations
2020-05-14 19:50:05	xq	the gemini web is called gemspace?
2020-05-14 19:53:07	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 19:55:02	cmccabe	probably. i haven't heard a consensus yet
2020-05-14 19:55:15	cmccabe	maybe the gemnosphere or
2020-05-14 19:56:01	~tiwesdaeg	we can't even agree on things like a gemini log, gemlog glog or .gmi .gem .gemini
2020-05-14 19:56:23	~tiwesdaeg	gemhoard
2020-05-14 19:56:41	~tiwesdaeg	constellation
2020-05-14 19:56:53	xq	gempile?
2020-05-14 19:56:55	cmccabe	gemboree
2020-05-14 19:56:55	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 19:57:09	~tiwesdaeg	gemiverse
2020-05-14 19:57:16	@tomasino	i thought gemlog got ratified after solderpunk checked with gemlog on mastodon
2020-05-14 19:57:57	~tiwesdaeg	well, it's my preferred abbreviation
2020-05-14 19:58:21	~tiwesdaeg	I still see glog around the gemosphere
2020-05-14 19:58:49	@tomasino	glog is still used on gopher in places
2020-05-14 19:58:53	@tomasino	so it's confusing in gemini
2020-05-14 19:58:56	cmccabe	maintaining a gemlog is referred to as doing gemnastics
2020-05-14 20:01:02	~tiwesdaeg	I've also seen mlog
2020-05-14 20:01:29	~tiwesdaeg	gemtastic gemnastics
2020-05-14 20:01:35	~tiwesdaeg	ok, back to sweating outside
2020-05-14 20:39:31	xq	ssl initialized.
2020-05-14 20:39:31	xq	socket connected to 168.235.111.58:1965.
2020-05-14 20:39:31	xq	ssl connection established.
2020-05-14 20:39:31	xq	20 text/gemini
2020-05-14 20:39:35	xq	ha, this feels good
2020-05-14 20:39:41	xq	a lot better than yesterday
2020-05-14 20:40:43	xq	makeworld: thanks for hinting me BearSSL!
2020-05-14 20:41:58	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 20:41:59	plugd	xq: if you just noticed a spurious connection, that was me being nosey :-)
2020-05-14 20:42:20	xq	huh, where did you connect to?
2020-05-14 20:42:53	plugd	xq: gemini://168.235.111.58/
2020-05-14 20:43:34	xq	you may have noticed that this is actually solderpunks IP :D
2020-05-14 20:43:43	xq	i don't have a gemini service running yet
2020-05-14 20:44:36	plugd	doh - no wonder I got a 53 response :-)
2020-05-14 20:44:55	xq	i'm still writing the client
2020-05-14 20:45:03	xq	and now i'm happy to have chosen BearSSL
2020-05-14 20:45:09	xq	it's much more code to write
2020-05-14 20:45:11	plugd	(wasn't following the conversation and thought you were writing a server)
2020-05-14 20:45:24	xq	but i start to understand all that SSL stuff one day anyways
2020-05-14 20:46:48	xq	and: gemini server will be next after the client
2020-05-14 20:47:26	plugd	xq: that's the exact same path I took about a year ago with gopher
2020-05-14 20:49:49	plugd	(actually this whole side of the internet is playing absolute and glorious havoc with my already-severe not-invented-here syndrome...)
2020-05-14 20:50:09	xq	haha
2020-05-14 20:50:12	xq	i can imagine!
2020-05-14 20:53:08	xq	since i joined Zig community, i have this too
2020-05-14 20:53:30	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 20:53:36	xq	zig is like a fresh breeze in software development, doing everything from ground up, with all the lessons learned and atm without the fear of breaking code
2020-05-14 20:53:48	xq	just break everything until 1.0
2020-05-14 20:54:28	plugd	I'll have to check it out, honestly this is the first I've heard of it.
2020-05-14 20:55:08	xq	yeah, do that!
2020-05-14 20:55:22	xq	andrew (BDFL) will start a stream in an hour on twitch
2020-05-14 20:55:32	xq	talking and coding on the new self-hosted backend
2020-05-14 20:56:59	xq	it's a good thing to get a grasp of the community and the style of the language
2020-05-14 20:57:05	xq	*chance
2020-05-14 21:06:41	plugd	thanks for the heads-up!
2020-05-14 21:06:57	acdw	is there a link for the twitch stream?
2020-05-14 21:07:54	xq	https://www.twitch.tv/andrewrok/
2020-05-14 21:10:42	acdw	TY!
2020-05-14 21:11:35	xq	you're welcome
2020-05-14 21:11:42	⚡	xq is happy to spread the zen of zig
2020-05-14 21:20:50	login	zig being?
2020-05-14 21:21:29	login	the culmination and saviour of software?
2020-05-14 21:22:00	login	scriptable and fast and memory safe and no garbage collection and real-time and
2020-05-14 21:22:25	login	compiling to llvm
2020-05-14 21:22:57	login	and completely bootstrappable?
2020-05-14 21:25:09	xq	fast: yes
2020-05-14 21:25:13	xq	memory safe: no
2020-05-14 21:25:18	xq	garbage collection: no
2020-05-14 21:25:22	xq	real-time: depends on your skills
2020-05-14 21:25:25	xq	llvm: yes
2020-05-14 21:25:34	xq	bootstrappable: nah, not even self-hosting
2020-05-14 21:26:02	xq	well, you can bootstrap zig with zig atm, but not the self-hosting compiler
2020-05-14 21:33:48	@tomasino	julienxx: can i change font sizes in castor?
2020-05-14 21:35:34	plugd	'night all, nice to meet you
2020-05-14 21:35:38		plugd has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-14 21:38:13	sloum	@tomasino, I think I remember julien mentioning that at the moment it is handled by some kind of system level gtk config
2020-05-14 21:38:46	@tomasino	ahh
2020-05-14 21:38:49	@tomasino	hi sloum 
2020-05-14 21:38:53	@tomasino	gotta check out your aggregator!
2020-05-14 21:38:58	acdw	hey do yall know how to generate an atom feed from my gemblog and get it listed in the CAPCOM on circumlunar.space?
2020-05-14 21:38:58	sloum	Hi :) How are things in iceland?
2020-05-14 21:39:03	@tomasino	i'll eventually ask for fox@~black to get added, but i don't have much up yet
2020-05-14 21:39:04	acdw	speaking of aggregator lol
2020-05-14 21:39:10	@tomasino	things here are quite lovely
2020-05-14 21:39:11	@tomasino	thanks!
2020-05-14 21:39:15	sloum	Please do! Do you have gemini content up? If so, I'll have to add it to spacewalk.
2020-05-14 21:39:24	@tomasino	i have 2 posts up
2020-05-14 21:39:28	sloum	I was there a few years back. Really really lvoed it.
2020-05-14 21:39:34	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/ is the root
2020-05-14 21:39:40	@tomasino	i don't have a dedicated journal page yet
2020-05-14 21:39:43	@tomasino	but i'd link to root
2020-05-14 21:39:52	@tomasino	i'm gonna keep the latest 5 or 10 posts on there
2020-05-14 21:40:00	sloum	Cool. Will do.
2020-05-14 21:40:01	@tomasino	it'll be nice if i add non-journal stuff too
2020-05-14 21:40:31	@tomasino	come again! we open for visitors june 15th
2020-05-14 21:40:43	sloum	The day after my birthday.
2020-05-14 21:40:50	@tomasino	you can either come and go into quarantine for 2 weeks, or get tested for covid at the airport, or bring documentation from abroad that you're healthy
2020-05-14 21:41:02	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-14 21:41:18	@tomasino	if any of you ever come through iceland i expect a heads up so we can get a kaffi
2020-05-14 21:41:20	sloum	I'd love to. It would be nice to see some of the parts north of Reykjavik. We mostly stuck to the ring road and the city.
2020-05-14 21:41:32	@tomasino	ring road + city is a fantastic first trip
2020-05-14 21:41:40	@tomasino	i'd recommend the southern coast as well
2020-05-14 21:42:16	@tomasino	we're heading up to the north for the beginning of july
2020-05-14 21:42:30	@tomasino	haven't decided if we're driving up or flying yet. still working on details
2020-05-14 21:42:43	@tomasino	trying to travel and spend money domestically this summer to help get things moving economically
2020-05-14 21:42:50	sloum	Awesome. You should .log about it once you do ;)
2020-05-14 21:42:56	@tomasino	the gov here is giving everyone $500 to spend on domestic summer travel
2020-05-14 21:42:59	@tomasino	i should!
2020-05-14 21:43:04	sloum	I'm sure I'm not the only one that would enjoy reading about gorgeous palces after being stuck inside for so long
2020-05-14 21:43:12	sloum	Aw, that is nice.
2020-05-14 21:43:18	@tomasino	my big problem is i don't know what i want to write about on gemini that i don't already write about on gopher
2020-05-14 21:43:27	@tomasino	and most of my iceland stuff i write on my blog so my family can read it
2020-05-14 21:43:28	sloum	That has been my problem as well.
2020-05-14 21:43:32	@tomasino	https://blog.tomasino.org
2020-05-14 21:43:52		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-14 21:43:55	@tomasino	if i had weed i'd join brool & smore and make a stoned.txt
2020-05-14 21:44:08	sloum	lol, no weed in Iceland?
2020-05-14 21:44:16	@tomasino	oh, there's plenty here, i just don't have a connection
2020-05-14 21:44:17	@tomasino	heh
2020-05-14 21:44:34	@tomasino	i got rid of my vape and everything when we moved
2020-05-14 21:44:40	sloum	The only other person I know there is a friends grandmother. not sure that she'd be able to hook you up.
2020-05-14 21:44:48	@tomasino	you never know!
2020-05-14 21:44:49	@tomasino	;)
2020-05-14 21:45:05	@tomasino	i'm pretty close to a bunch of MPs now
2020-05-14 21:45:07	@tomasino	pirate party
2020-05-14 21:45:13	@tomasino	i can probably get a hook up through them
2020-05-14 21:45:13	@tomasino	hah
2020-05-14 21:45:27	@tomasino	nah, they're cool people though
2020-05-14 21:45:30	sloum	Very true. Said grandmother is fond of complaining about the water. It used to be more sulfery and she complains "its terrible what they've done to the water, you cant even smell it anymore!"
2020-05-14 21:45:41	@tomasino	haha
2020-05-14 21:45:50	@tomasino	they do filter out the sulfer in some areas
2020-05-14 21:45:53	@tomasino	no smell
2020-05-14 21:45:54	sloum	She also refers to the errosion fighting trees as eyesores.
2020-05-14 21:45:56	@tomasino	but still amazing
2020-05-14 21:46:02	@tomasino	that's amazing
2020-05-14 21:46:15	@tomasino	she sounds like a character
2020-05-14 21:46:19	sloum	Totally.
2020-05-14 21:46:26	sloum	You've been there a year or two now right?
2020-05-14 21:46:51	sloum	Have you been there for airwaves?
2020-05-14 21:47:52	@tomasino	1 year july 1st
2020-05-14 21:48:00	@tomasino	yep, was here for airwaves last fall
2020-05-14 21:48:07	@tomasino	i saw one show off the main strip
2020-05-14 21:48:30	@tomasino	still have a young one at home so it's kinda hard to tell my wife, "see ya! i'm gonna go party for a couple days. have fun!"
2020-05-14 21:48:44	sloum	Cool. It is quite a thing to walk downtowna nd all the bookstores, clothing stores, everything seem to ahve music coming out of them.
2020-05-14 21:49:00	sloum	Yeah. I get that (11m old at home right now)
2020-05-14 21:49:05	@tomasino	i really like our little city. i go downtown once a month or so
2020-05-14 21:49:17	@tomasino	i'm about as far out as the capital region busses go
2020-05-14 21:49:51	⚡	xq plays stream notification for acdw
2020-05-14 21:49:57	acdw	:)
2020-05-14 21:49:59	acdw	yo
2020-05-14 21:50:07	sloum	Sounds nice too. Out of the hustle and bustle (such that it is).
2020-05-14 21:50:28	@tomasino	yeah
2020-05-14 21:50:44	@tomasino	we're in the mountains a bit. i walk outside and a block away and i'm into trails
2020-05-14 21:53:26	sloum	That is what my wife and I are hoping to find her ein the states. We have been looking into Oregon and Washington. With luck we'll find something nice that fits what we want (at least an acre with some space to grow some food and some nearby woods or trails).
2020-05-14 21:56:01	@tomasino	you're looking in the right area
2020-05-14 21:56:12	@tomasino	technically utah too, but then you have mormons
2020-05-14 22:01:25	sloum	ha, I'm in southern california now so it could be argued I have scientologists (who do indeed have a heavily surveiled building not far from where I live).
2020-05-14 22:02:08	@tomasino	oh, that's ... yeah
2020-05-14 22:02:10	@tomasino	go away from that
2020-05-14 22:05:45		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-14 22:07:47	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 22:08:57	@julienxx	Hey sloum!
2020-05-14 22:09:31	⚡	tomasino high fives julienxx
2020-05-14 22:09:36	@julienxx	tomasino: if you want to change the font size this will only be through GTK global settings for now
2020-05-14 22:09:48	@tomasino	okay
2020-05-14 22:09:51	@tomasino	i'll squint and lean in
2020-05-14 22:09:55	⚡	tomasino has terrible eye sight
2020-05-14 22:12:44	@julienxx	Somebody posted the solution somewhere, just have to remember where ^^
2020-05-14 22:13:30	@julienxx	Ah here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23170728
2020-05-14 22:13:58	@julienxx	But I intend to provide a setting someday :)
2020-05-14 22:14:46	@tomasino	ahha
2020-05-14 22:14:49	@tomasino	setting++
2020-05-14 22:38:54	sloum	Hi julienxx!
2020-05-14 22:39:16	sloum	Nah, I had to squint and lean in on that one too, lol.
2020-05-14 23:24:07		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-14 23:53:03	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-14 23:58:10		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 00:08:28	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 00:12:14		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 00:37:50		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 00:40:03	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 00:44:09		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 02:40:53	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 02:44:59		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 02:51:17	makeworld	I just realized it wouldn't be that hard to hack Gemini for live streaming data
2020-05-15 02:51:32	makeworld	Just have the body response never stop ;)
2020-05-15 03:08:14	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 04:41:44	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 04:45:50		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 05:25:21	epoch	that's pretty much how ice-cast works.
2020-05-15 05:59:54	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 06:00:43		sloum has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 06:42:16	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 06:46:22		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 07:42:32	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 08:34:27	@tomasino	same trick works on gopher too
2020-05-15 08:34:44	@tomasino	have a friend that made a gopher video stream the other day for giggles. works great
2020-05-15 08:36:59	@julienxx	good morning
2020-05-15 08:39:11	@tomasino	hiya julienxx 
2020-05-15 08:40:36	@julienxx	gemini with video could be nice
2020-05-15 08:41:03	@tomasino	konpeito is sure to do something of the sort eventually
2020-05-15 08:41:04	@tomasino	:)
2020-05-15 08:41:13	@tomasino	have you checked out baud.vision?
2020-05-15 08:41:43	@tomasino	julien is in the irc chan, but for the rest of you: http://baud.vision:21225/vcr
2020-05-15 08:43:08	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 08:43:18	@julienxx	yes I was thinking about a gemini://baud.vision :)
2020-05-15 08:44:54	jan6	lol what is that
2020-05-15 08:45:26	@tomasino	another of cat's amazing art projects
2020-05-15 08:45:38	@tomasino	basically streaming lowfi archive.org video content
2020-05-15 08:45:41	@julienxx	gopher://baud.vision
2020-05-15 08:47:14		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 10:06:23	⚡	cat takes a bow
2020-05-15 10:10:47	cat	i need to mirror the baud.vision jnfo
2020-05-15 10:10:54	cat	*info on gemini too
2020-05-15 10:18:33	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 10:38:10	@tomasino	hiya cat!
2020-05-15 10:38:16	@tomasino	how's it going?
2020-05-15 10:44:00	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 10:48:05		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 11:25:02	cat	going ok, busy busy
2020-05-15 11:25:10	cat	hows things with you?
2020-05-15 11:43:42	⚡	southerntofu heard there's now a gemini server on rawtext.club :)
2020-05-15 12:09:10	@julienxx	muchos servidores
2020-05-15 12:20:01	@tomasino	 stuff here is good. Feeling energetic today
2020-05-15 12:20:12	@tomasino	lots of work coming, but none in hand
2020-05-15 12:28:27	@julienxx	will cosmic.voyage have a Gemini presence someday?
2020-05-15 12:31:04	@tomasino	oh yes
2020-05-15 12:31:06	@tomasino	most definitely
2020-05-15 12:31:29	@tomasino	since gopher is the canonical format it's relatively trivial to generate gemini files
2020-05-15 12:32:19	@tomasino	Maybe i'll do that in a little bit today
2020-05-15 12:32:25	@tomasino	i need to eat something and get cleaned up
2020-05-15 12:33:54	@tomasino	regarding my recent post on the mailing list about serving the text/markdown mime type, i didn't want to spell it out there too much, but really, you could pretty much ignore the gemini filetype stuff and just serve html files over gemini and render it browser-like
2020-05-15 12:34:04	@tomasino	the only difference then would be headers
2020-05-15 12:34:28	xq	tomasino: even that would be a benefit
2020-05-15 12:34:29	@tomasino	if you parse html and pull the other resources, images, scripts, and styles, with their appropriate mimes, you could just make the web
2020-05-15 12:34:40	xq	as you could serve "modern web", but it would remove a lot of tracking surface
2020-05-15 12:35:09	@tomasino	well, most of the tracking service is in JS, so that really wouldn't change much if it's reporting back to an HTTP source, but to some degree it could work
2020-05-15 12:35:23	@tomasino	if your gemini client ignores http(s?):// completely, then yeah
2020-05-15 12:35:32	@tomasino	you could pretty much carve out the nasty bits of the web
2020-05-15 12:35:40	xq	yep
2020-05-15 12:35:47	@tomasino	i don't want to give people ideas, though. 
2020-05-15 12:35:49	@tomasino	not this early
2020-05-15 12:35:50	xq	but a markdown renderer would be beautiful as well
2020-05-15 12:35:55	jan6	why not ideas
2020-05-15 12:36:04	xq	maybe even with client-side styling
2020-05-15 12:36:08	xq	(client-side only)
2020-05-15 12:36:15	@tomasino	a markdown renderer is, i suspect, inevitable. I also suspect it could easily overtake the .gmi format as the default document type
2020-05-15 12:36:20	xq	would mean you can chose how a site looks, but the site could serve more complex content anyways
2020-05-15 12:37:33	jan6	you can just require (x)html5 and css3, and that would mean you can forget about most of the crap needed for normal browser engines, also no need for all the fancy browser APIs since no javascript
2020-05-15 12:37:40	jan6	styling is GREAT
2020-05-15 12:37:53	@tomasino	jan6: there's a lot of people eager to dive into gemini right now and build something. If they start going off building a "new web" with html and crap, it could disrupt the great momentum that's moving forward. One day I expect we'll see it regardless, but I don't want to be the one that starts that fire
2020-05-15 12:38:01	jan6	gemini format is nicer than markdown, imho
2020-05-15 12:38:05	jan6	it's a LOT easier to parse
2020-05-15 12:38:10	@tomasino	i agree
2020-05-15 12:38:24	xq	yep
2020-05-15 12:38:26	jan6	no bold or italic or images or such tho
2020-05-15 12:38:30	xq	commonmark is a hell of a syntax
2020-05-15 12:38:35	@tomasino	but the protocol allows other mime types so there's nothing stopping a client dev from just using an off the shelf markdown parser and saying "DONE!"
2020-05-15 12:38:45	jan6	sure
2020-05-15 12:38:59	jan6	tbh would be great if there was an alternative to markdown
2020-05-15 12:39:07	@tomasino	there are several alternatives
2020-05-15 12:39:20	jan6	something that doesn't require complex parsers and such
2020-05-15 12:39:35	xq	yeah
2020-05-15 12:39:41	@tomasino	if you don't want a parser, then just .txt
2020-05-15 12:39:41	xq	commonmark is pretty complex, sadly
2020-05-15 12:39:44	xq	they allow *too* much
2020-05-15 12:39:51	@tomasino	but commonmark, asciidoc, there are other small formats
2020-05-15 12:39:55	jan6	like gemini you can just check "line starts with =>, next field is url, after that take the text and display"
2020-05-15 12:40:03	@tomasino	i'd love to see a client parse troff
2020-05-15 12:40:10	@tomasino	or, ooooh, latex
2020-05-15 12:40:13	jan6	no need to check "is this nested" or "was there another formatting character before it"
2020-05-15 12:40:17	jan6	lol
2020-05-15 12:40:30	xq	just serve postscript
2020-05-15 12:40:33	@tomasino	.gmi is remarkably simple and fits the heart of gemini's purpose
2020-05-15 12:40:50	@tomasino	i hope it stays dominant, but there's really nothing stopping another type from dominating instead
2020-05-15 12:40:53	jan6	I'd like something to bold and italic, and it'd be great
2020-05-15 12:41:06	jan6	and yeah, hopefully it stays in the top tier
2020-05-15 12:41:11	xq	heh
2020-05-15 12:41:18	xq	i like geminis simplicity
2020-05-15 12:41:26	xq	but the TLS stuff is making it much more complicated
2020-05-15 12:41:29	jan6	^
2020-05-15 12:41:31	jan6	that too
2020-05-15 12:41:37	@tomasino	that's why i haven't written a client or server
2020-05-15 12:41:39	xq	otherwise i would already be tempted to implement a gemini client on a microcontroller :D
2020-05-15 12:41:55	jan6	tomasino: making a client is easy, I did it in shell scripts, twice ;P
2020-05-15 12:41:55	@tomasino	i have not the first clue how to use a system library in code
2020-05-15 12:42:01	jan6	"kinda" did it
2020-05-15 12:42:11	jan6	a kind of gemini-curl like thingy
2020-05-15 12:42:20	xq	a client can be done with the openssl-cli tool :D
2020-05-15 12:42:21	@tomasino	yep
2020-05-15 12:42:22	@tomasino	it was nice
2020-05-15 12:42:29	xq	openssl s_client --connect server.host
2020-05-15 12:42:31	jan6	if only "dialog" wasn't such a pain, I'd already have finished the second iteration
2020-05-15 12:42:44	jan6	which is a lot better
2020-05-15 12:42:58	@tomasino	if it were a different thing instead of TLS i'd have the same problem
2020-05-15 12:43:02	jan6	printf 'gemini://konpeito.media/index-mild.gmi\r\n' | openssl s_client -connect konpeito.media:1965 -quiet -verify_quiet
2020-05-15 12:43:05	jan6	is all you need
2020-05-15 12:43:07	@tomasino	my coding background doesn't go to that sort of stuff
2020-05-15 12:43:33	@tomasino	once i'm getting input and parsing and handling it, fine. i can do some magic there
2020-05-15 12:44:05	jan6	someone who knows C, should look into how to do this stuff with BearSSL, imho, it supports up to TLS 1.2, but that should be enough
2020-05-15 12:44:26	@tomasino	i think a bearssl client and/or server just got annonuced on the mailing list
2020-05-15 12:44:31	jan6	huh
2020-05-15 12:44:31	@tomasino	isn't makeworld using it?
2020-05-15 12:44:34	jan6	idk where the list is
2020-05-15 12:44:39	@tomasino	the mailing list?
2020-05-15 12:44:44	jan6	ye
2020-05-15 12:44:51	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 12:45:05	@tomasino	ttps://lists.orbitalfox.eu/listinfo/gemini
2020-05-15 12:45:05	⚡	xq waves at tomasino
2020-05-15 12:45:09	@tomasino	add an h
2020-05-15 12:45:10	jan6	also edit the topic, there is a http version of the gemini site, which is often a single click away
2020-05-15 12:45:25	@tomasino	okay, i'll add the http version too
2020-05-15 12:45:26	@tomasino	:P
2020-05-15 12:45:42	@tomasino	hiy xq - were you the bearssl client/server coder?
2020-05-15 12:45:50	@tomasino	so many new faces, hard to keep everyone straight
2020-05-15 12:45:51	jan6	a bit silly to have "to use gemini, use gemii to look up gemini info"
2020-05-15 12:45:53	~tiwesdaeg	burn it down tomasino
2020-05-15 12:45:56	jan6	lol
2020-05-15 12:46:23	xq	i'm coding on a bearssl client atm
2020-05-15 12:46:42	xq	server will probably follow D
2020-05-15 12:46:45	⚡	tiwesdaeg is sipping tea and compiling
2020-05-15 12:47:02	ℹ 	tomasino has changed topic for #gemini from "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/" to "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/"
2020-05-15 12:47:15	~tiwesdaeg	might be shifting tilde.pink to gemserv today
2020-05-15 12:47:27	ℹ 	tomasino has changed topic for #gemini from "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/" to "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/"
2020-05-15 12:47:43	jan6	great
2020-05-15 12:47:52	@tomasino	oh fun
2020-05-15 12:48:09	~tiwesdaeg	there really should be a client list on http and gopher, like ben was complaining about yesterday
2020-05-15 12:48:32	@tomasino	yep, i think solderpunk made mention of that recently
2020-05-15 12:48:39	@tomasino	he needs to equally share the love between all 3 sites
2020-05-15 12:48:56		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 12:49:10	@tomasino	tiwesdaeg: have you thought about forking geomyidae and adding gemini support?
2020-05-15 12:49:11	~tiwesdaeg	it makes I do like how gemserv's main page is gemini
2020-05-15 12:49:33	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: I am not very c compatible
2020-05-15 12:49:39	@tomasino	fair fair
2020-05-15 12:49:55	jan6	I'd have made a proper client in C if I had any clue
2020-05-15 12:49:58	~tiwesdaeg	and I really don't want to have to talk to 20h about how it all works
2020-05-15 12:50:07	~tiwesdaeg	that guy is toxic
2020-05-15 12:50:07	@tomasino	yeah
2020-05-15 12:50:12	@tomasino	the whole community is
2020-05-15 12:50:16	@tomasino	except solene
2020-05-15 12:50:16	jan6	what
2020-05-15 12:50:23	~tiwesdaeg	except solene and leot
2020-05-15 12:50:31	@tomasino	we should import them
2020-05-15 12:50:32	@tomasino	:)
2020-05-15 12:50:32	~tiwesdaeg	they were always helpful
2020-05-15 12:51:02	~tiwesdaeg	can we clone them on the tildeverse with git?
2020-05-15 12:51:42	@tomasino	solene would probably want us to use drist
2020-05-15 12:51:57	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 12:52:09	jan6	"we should import them" lol
2020-05-15 12:52:19	jan6	oh wow, people are popping in today
2020-05-15 12:52:20	@tomasino	which i should really eye up again now that i changed my dotfile structure. It could work well
2020-05-15 12:55:57	~tiwesdaeg	awww, build failed on netbsd
2020-05-15 12:56:03	⚡	tiwesdaeg goes to search errors
2020-05-15 12:56:45	@tomasino	blerg
2020-05-15 13:01:59	@julienxx	Anybody knows a good IRC client on iOS by any chance?
2020-05-15 13:03:10	@tomasino	cl....something
2020-05-15 13:03:18	~tiwesdaeg	I only use ios for work, and I barely use it at that
2020-05-15 13:03:20	@tomasino	clementine? or was that music? coliopy?
2020-05-15 13:03:30	@tomasino	something like that. It's cute
2020-05-15 13:03:30	~tiwesdaeg	they make us use blackberry software
2020-05-15 13:03:32	~tiwesdaeg	the worst
2020-05-15 13:03:35	@tomasino	oh jeez
2020-05-15 13:03:46	~tiwesdaeg	coloquoy?
2020-05-15 13:03:47	@tomasino	oh wait, ios... that's osx
2020-05-15 13:03:49	@julienxx	I use Colloqui but maybe there is something better
2020-05-15 13:03:51	~tiwesdaeg	some weird word like that
2020-05-15 13:04:01	@tomasino	so, dunno
2020-05-15 13:04:28	~tiwesdaeg	so, clean install of rustup stable on netbsd
2020-05-15 13:04:39	~tiwesdaeg	I think it's something to do with openssl
2020-05-15 13:04:44	@tomasino	ahha
2020-05-15 13:05:15	~tiwesdaeg	I tried to install the openssl package, but that didn't work and there are no rust specific openssl packages
2020-05-15 13:07:23	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: https://github.com/lindskogen/weechatRN
2020-05-15 13:07:29	~tiwesdaeg	it's not that stale
2020-05-15 13:52:45		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 13:55:15	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 14:02:06		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 14:14:36		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 14:19:54	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 14:45:42	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 14:49:48		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 14:54:43		julienxx has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-15 14:55:02	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 14:55:02	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-05-15 15:37:31	@julienxx	cmccabe on gemini://rawtext.club/social_contract.gmi it would be nice to have gemini links at the end, what do you think?
2020-05-15 15:38:05		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 15:39:36	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 15:40:19	cmccabe	julienxx: agreed! i don't know how to make a gemini link yet, so give me a bit to figure it out. :)
2020-05-15 15:40:39	cmccabe	is it like markdown link syntax?
2020-05-15 15:41:35	@julienxx	It’s `=> url description` with description being optional
2020-05-15 15:47:15	cmccabe	fixed. those links don't work in bombadillo, so i should probably find a suitable alternative.  but that's another story
2020-05-15 15:51:05	@julienxx	nice!
2020-05-15 15:53:46	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 16:07:07	@tomasino	i hear castor is nice. ;)
2020-05-15 16:11:05		julienxx has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-15 16:11:32	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 16:11:33	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-05-15 16:12:30		julienxx has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 16:12:49	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 16:13:00	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-05-15 16:14:20		julienxx has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 16:14:39	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 16:14:39	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-05-15 16:20:33		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 16:21:27	@julienxx	cmccabe there is a setting in bombadillo to open http links `:set openhttp true`
2020-05-15 16:26:28	ℹ 	login is now known as l
2020-05-15 16:36:39		julienxx has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-15 16:36:57	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 16:36:57	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-05-15 16:54:21		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 17:10:58	makeworld	tomasino: jan6: I don't use bearssl or C, no. I just heard about the project and thought it might be a good fit for some people
2020-05-15 17:11:05	makeworld	The mailing list has been so busy
2020-05-15 17:11:18	makeworld	Lots more servers!
2020-05-15 17:11:36	jan6	lotsa
2020-05-15 17:11:41	jan6	lodza
2020-05-15 17:12:07	@tomasino	pizza
2020-05-15 17:12:48	jan6	fizzy
2020-05-15 17:20:46	makeworld	Exactly
2020-05-15 18:50:39		sloum has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 18:51:27		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2020-05-15 18:53:27	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 19:24:05	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 19:29:33	▬▬▶	jackdoe has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 19:33:36		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 19:34:37	jackdoe	hi, not sure where the best place to post this is, i just pushed https://github.com/jackdoe/net-gemini and also added support for gemini on gemini://berserk.red [its just for me and my friends to talk(1)], but anyway thanks for making such nice spec! TOFU works great!
2020-05-15 19:38:50	@tomasino	fantastic!
2020-05-15 19:41:30	@tomasino	quite the minimal setup, but i like that you're offering stuff to people
2020-05-15 19:41:39	@tomasino	chroot is an interesting move
2020-05-15 19:43:07	jackdoe	i did the net-gemini in this way so other people can just embed it and then serve dynamic content without cgi (due to go limitation)
2020-05-15 19:43:29	jackdoe	go setuid limitation i mean
2020-05-15 19:44:56	jackdoe	tomasino: i am not sure about the chroot tbh, i just wanted to see how far i can go without modern containers, but i think i will move to runc soon
2020-05-15 20:01:12	cmccabe	thanks julienxx. i will try that
2020-05-15 20:07:52	~tiwesdaeg	 woo, got gemserv to build on tilde.pink
2020-05-15 20:08:06	@tomasino	huzzah!
2020-05-15 20:08:19	~tiwesdaeg	had to set an environment variable to point at the openssl install
2020-05-15 20:08:28	~tiwesdaeg	netbsd is weird and all packages go in /usr/pkg
2020-05-15 20:08:50	~tiwesdaeg	after it compiled, it still complained about missing libs
2020-05-15 20:09:14	~tiwesdaeg	so I had to make symbolic links
2020-05-15 20:10:23	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: I test user directories and they are working perfectly with gemserv
2020-05-15 20:10:30	~tiwesdaeg	I deleted all my symbolic links
2020-05-15 20:12:49	@tomasino	brilliant!
2020-05-15 20:18:00	~tiwesdaeg	I'm guessing it would build fine on openbsd
2020-05-15 20:35:15		jackdoe has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-15 20:51:30	@tomasino	most likely
2020-05-15 20:51:42	@tomasino	i'll put a note on it
2020-05-15 21:17:39	makeworld	jackdoe: You're offline now but have you seen https://git.sr.ht/~yotam/go-gemini ?
2020-05-15 21:18:05	makeworld	It's a golang library for gemini, I've been working on my fork for it that will update and improve it
2020-05-15 21:18:14	makeworld	Might be helpful to double check with your code
2020-05-15 21:18:39	makeworld	The mailing list momentum shows no sign of stopping.... :)
2020-05-15 21:29:02	@julienxx	OS News posted about Castor https://www.osnews.com/story/131791/castor-a-browser-for-the-small-internet-gemini-gopher-finger/ the comments are something ^^
2020-05-15 21:35:34	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like the number of gemini servers has gone exponential
2020-05-15 21:35:56	~tiwesdaeg	and yay for castor news!
2020-05-15 21:37:46	~tiwesdaeg	the comments feel like reading youtube comments
2020-05-15 21:41:53	makeworld	Yeah lol
2020-05-15 21:47:19	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, to their credit, pretentious is a pretty big word that 95% of youtube commenters wouldn't know
2020-05-15 22:01:19	makeworld	On the other hand, what a stunning article, a whole two sentences
2020-05-15 22:01:28	makeworld	Now tHat's quality journalism
2020-05-15 22:27:20	xq	interesting topic about inline links
2020-05-15 22:27:40	xq	for a httpweb-user, inline links are status quo and i'm used to that
2020-05-15 22:29:53	xq	also: comments on that article above are … gross
2020-05-15 22:48:01	@tomasino	yeah, looooong, looooong discussions on that front in the mailing list
2020-05-15 22:48:21	xq	well, it's a thing
2020-05-15 22:48:22	@tomasino	the line-oriented parsing of the gemini files is a huge win for simplicity borrowed from gopher
2020-05-15 22:48:28	xq	i can understand why it's not wanted in gemini
2020-05-15 22:48:33	@tomasino	but, all that as it is, you can just serve text/markdown
2020-05-15 22:48:39	xq	true
2020-05-15 22:48:45	@tomasino	once one or two people add parsing for that mime type it's moot
2020-05-15 23:01:22	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-15 23:07:58	xq	anyone here fit with the x509 process?
2020-05-15 23:10:11		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-15 23:19:39	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 00:06:24	sloum	Hi mhj! (I'm on my way out, but good to see you)
2020-05-16 00:06:29		sloum has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-16 00:11:25	xq	ha
2020-05-16 00:11:41	xq	my client starts to pass conmans torture suit (at least the protocol bits)
2020-05-16 00:11:42	▬▬▶	kaoD has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 00:11:45	kaoD	hi
2020-05-16 00:12:03	xq	hey
2020-05-16 00:14:48	kaoD	is there a public self-signed gemini server available? I want to test my client's TOFU
2020-05-16 00:14:59	xq	gemini://gemini.conman.org/test/torture/0000
2020-05-16 00:15:04	kaoD	ty!
2020-05-16 00:15:12	xq	doesn't work with openss s_client, so i assume it's self-signed
2020-05-16 00:15:27	xq	also has a lot of nice tests for gemini
2020-05-16 00:15:39	xq	kaoD, what SSL library are you using?
2020-05-16 00:17:06	kaoD	NodeJS's builtin TLS module (uses OpenSSL)
2020-05-16 00:17:23	xq	ah
2020-05-16 00:17:27	xq	i'm using BearSSL
2020-05-16 00:17:30	xq	really bear bones
2020-05-16 00:17:44	xq	but well documented
2020-05-16 00:17:56	xq	i just hacked the whole x509 trust chain and now i accept everything :D
2020-05-16 00:18:05	xq	not quite TOFU, but TOAU
2020-05-16 00:18:18	kaoD	...au?
2020-05-16 00:18:55	xq	Trust on all uses :D
2020-05-16 00:19:01	kaoD	:P
2020-05-16 00:19:07	xq	i just ignore if i know the cert or not
2020-05-16 00:23:28	kaoD	so far that's been my strategy too :P
2020-05-16 00:27:23	xq	heh
2020-05-16 00:27:35	xq	shit, i think i just DDoSd conman
2020-05-16 00:28:01	xq	julienxx, i heared you're the one doing castor?
2020-05-16 00:28:07	kaoD	huh, this is going to be harder than I expected :/ I thought Node had a way to customize the validation, but it's only called _after_ and _iff_ the CA has been validated
2020-05-16 00:28:10	xq	it may has a slight problem with the redirection hell
2020-05-16 00:49:20	@tomasino	ahh, you're the one he posted about on the mailing list
2020-05-16 00:49:22	@tomasino	naughty naughty
2020-05-16 00:49:53	xq	hey, it's not my fault :D
2020-05-16 00:49:56	xq	i closed the client!
2020-05-16 00:50:06	xq	but killed only one of two threads *fail*
2020-05-16 00:50:22	@tomasino	oopses
2020-05-16 00:51:02	xq	yep
2020-05-16 00:51:19	xq	already mailed him and apologized
2020-05-16 00:55:31	cmccabe	hi geminauts.  someone mentioned capcom to me today. what is that? a gemini search engine?
2020-05-16 00:57:56	xq	hey cmccabe
2020-05-16 00:58:27	xq	afaik CAPCOM is an aggregator that collects atom feeds in gemverse
2020-05-16 00:58:58	xq	and it will collect them and display them in a daily manner
2020-05-16 01:04:08	cmccabe	thanks xq. do you know where it is hosted?
2020-05-16 01:04:53	xq	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/
2020-05-16 01:06:51	cmccabe	great, thanks again xq :)
2020-05-16 01:08:38	xq	i should fetch some sleep
2020-05-16 01:08:44	xq	but coding is working so well atm
2020-05-16 01:21:16	ℹ 	l is now known as login
2020-05-16 01:23:38	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 01:28:05		xq has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-16 01:54:33		kaoD has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-16 02:45:11	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 04:23:23		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-16 05:36:54	makeworld	I made a markdown to gemini converter! I've been wanting to make one for a while, and it works!
2020-05-16 05:37:01	makeworld	Feels good :)
2020-05-16 05:37:46	makeworld	I got to add some more stuff, and publish it to Github and PyPI, but if all goes well expect to see a link to it on the mailing list this weekend
2020-05-16 05:37:58	makeworld	Anyway, I'm off to bed, goodnight geminauts
2020-05-16 06:09:43	login	nice
2020-05-16 08:03:54	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 09:18:26	▬▬▶	kaoD has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 09:18:49	kaoD	hi
2020-05-16 09:26:42	epoch	hi
2020-05-16 09:39:57	@julienxx	Morning
2020-05-16 10:07:32	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 10:10:06	@tomasino	morning
2020-05-16 10:10:27	xq	hey
2020-05-16 10:11:09	@tomasino	what's new
2020-05-16 10:11:40	xq	i got my "requestRaw" function done yesterday
2020-05-16 10:11:52	@tomasino	very nice!
2020-05-16 10:11:58	xq	core of my client library now survives a lot of requests!
2020-05-16 10:12:11	@tomasino	multithreaded?
2020-05-16 10:12:12	xq	including conmans torture suite (at least the protocol part)
2020-05-16 10:12:32	xq	nah, not at all (yet)
2020-05-16 10:12:37	@tomasino	it's a really helpful torture suite, isn't it?
2020-05-16 10:12:42	@tomasino	i'm so glad he did that
2020-05-16 10:12:42	xq	yeah, true
2020-05-16 10:12:56	xq	but i have to write him a patch list :D
2020-05-16 10:13:03	xq	there are some typos and errors in it
2020-05-16 10:13:10	@julienxx	Hey xq to answer your question earlier I’m the Castor maker
2020-05-16 10:13:41	xq	ah
2020-05-16 10:13:58	xq	your client follows indirections forever :D
2020-05-16 10:14:07	xq	but otherwise, really cool project!
2020-05-16 10:14:48	@julienxx	Yeah there are still so much things to do like TOFU, pass Conman’s test...
2020-05-16 10:15:03	@julienxx	Slowly but surely :)
2020-05-16 10:15:45	@tomasino	they all start somewhere
2020-05-16 10:15:55	@tomasino	i really appreciate castor. it's really nice
2020-05-16 10:17:10	xq	yeah, it's my primary client
2020-05-16 10:17:30	xq	i miss a lot of features, but i think julienxx knows what features are missing :D
2020-05-16 10:19:12	xq	how's rust treating you, julienxx?
2020-05-16 10:21:20	@julienxx	I like it, I’m still a beginner and Castor is my first real GUI program so I struggle a bit on some stuff like GTK and multithreading.
2020-05-16 10:21:42	xq	ah yeah
2020-05-16 10:21:49	@julienxx	But anytime I add something it’s pretty easy so I guess my code is not that bad
2020-05-16 10:21:54	xq	guis are usually bad for multithreading
2020-05-16 10:21:56	@tomasino	i'm sure you'll nail down the technical stuffs as time goes on
2020-05-16 10:22:09	@julienxx	Which features were you thinking about xq?
2020-05-16 10:22:18	xq	can you notify/ping me, when new relevant features come out?
2020-05-16 10:22:31	xq	my first big wish: tabs!
2020-05-16 10:22:50	@tomasino	tabs eh? that sounds like a fancy one
2020-05-16 10:22:59	xq	shouldn't be that hard with GTK actually
2020-05-16 10:23:09	@tomasino	i was just thinking a user setting for where to wrap text
2020-05-16 10:23:28	xq	theres the gtk3-demo tool that explains in short how every GTK feature works
2020-05-16 10:23:32	xq	with a small example code
2020-05-16 10:23:33	xq	so awesome
2020-05-16 10:23:34	@tomasino	oh nice
2020-05-16 10:23:36	xq	oh and some error feedback when an URL
2020-05-16 10:25:04	@julienxx	tomasino: where would you want text to wrap? You mean like a line length?
2020-05-16 10:25:25	@tomasino	yeah
2020-05-16 10:25:30	@tomasino	just a number in the conf
2020-05-16 10:25:37	@tomasino	or a slider on the page
2020-05-16 10:25:46	@tomasino	something like that would be handy
2020-05-16 10:26:08	@tomasino	a slider probably moreso. adjustable on the go
2020-05-16 10:26:22	@tomasino	you can resize the whole window, but that's less sexy
2020-05-16 10:26:32	@tomasino	i dunno, just thinking out loud
2020-05-16 10:26:40	@tomasino	font size tweaking would be my #1
2020-05-16 10:26:44	@tomasino	just cause i'm blind
2020-05-16 10:27:11	@julienxx	This one is planned in the next few days
2020-05-16 10:27:37	@julienxx	I wanted to experiment with soldepunk’s idea of a different color scheme per domain
2020-05-16 10:29:13	xq	yeah i love this idea as well!
2020-05-16 10:33:30	xq	hmm
2020-05-16 10:33:48	xq	what would be a good place to store a list of trusted certificates to build your own trust store for TOFU?
2020-05-16 10:36:06	@julienxx	For castor I was thinking of an equivalent to SSH known-hosts somewhere in .local
2020-05-16 10:40:19	@tomasino	the one where you choose to set a color, or my "hash the domain and generate color differences" thing?
2020-05-16 10:40:36	xq	i think we both talk about the latter one
2020-05-16 10:40:54	@tomasino	:)
2020-05-16 10:41:14	@tomasino	if it turns out to be too much on the page, you could change the tab color instead
2020-05-16 10:41:19	@tomasino	you know, if you have tabs
2020-05-16 10:41:20	@tomasino	:P
2020-05-16 10:41:26	xq	hmm
2020-05-16 10:41:32	xq	how much colors do we need anyways?
2020-05-16 10:41:42	xq	we have headings, links, background and text, right?
2020-05-16 10:41:44	@tomasino	depends on if you care about accessibility
2020-05-16 10:41:54	@tomasino	oh you mean how many stylable colors
2020-05-16 10:41:58	xq	yeah
2020-05-16 10:42:24	@tomasino	3 levels of hierarchy headers, lists, and links, though links could change by protocol if you want
2020-05-16 10:42:36	@tomasino	or indicate external links to another domain vs relative or same-domain
2020-05-16 10:43:03	@tomasino	once people have set their colors in their theme, changing stuff on them might not be as well received as a client that didn't offer styling
2020-05-16 10:43:16	@tomasino	but that's why i thought the tab itself might be better
2020-05-16 10:43:21	@tomasino	or an outline or something
2020-05-16 10:43:36	@tomasino	especially if it's a color that won't affect readability
2020-05-16 10:44:16	@tomasino	then you can use colors that are significantly different enough from one another to be identified as changing. You don't want 16 million color choices, for instance. Maybe 256, or even 64
2020-05-16 10:44:30	@tomasino	again, just letting my brain out as i think of stuff
2020-05-16 10:44:54	@tomasino	if not a tab, maybe a 1-2 px bar across the top of the screen above the page
2020-05-16 10:45:04	@tomasino	stylistic, but insignificant to the overall design
2020-05-16 10:45:11	@tomasino	or hell, the URL bar!
2020-05-16 10:45:23	@tomasino	colorize the text of the domain portion of the URL
2020-05-16 10:45:42	@tomasino	many options if the full page change is too much or invades on people's color prefs
2020-05-16 10:46:14	xq	well, there's place for experimentation
2020-05-16 10:47:24	@julienxx	First I wanted to try generating palettes and if successful provide a setting like random_palette: true/false
2020-05-16 10:48:03	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-16 10:48:16	xq	guys, what do you think about this:
2020-05-16 10:48:17	@tomasino	color palette generation is fun
2020-05-16 10:48:55	epoch	maybe do 0x000 to 0xfff ?
2020-05-16 10:49:19	xq	if a server is using CA-signed certificates, don't ask for trust, but store the server certificate in the trust store. if it's self-signed or otherwise untrusted, ask the user if they trust the server, if yes, then store the certificate in the trust store as well
2020-05-16 10:49:47	xq	epoch: i prefer using handcrafted color palettes to the ones using only "coder colors"
2020-05-16 10:49:49	epoch	12bit color, maybe another 4 bits of transparency if you want two bytes worth
2020-05-16 10:50:23	xq	examples: https://lospec.com/palette-list/dawnbringer-16
2020-05-16 10:50:24	xq	https://lospec.com/palette-list/pico-8
2020-05-16 10:50:27	@tomasino	i think the idea of TOFU was (and please don't rely on me here cause i'm just parroting) to encourage people to move away from CA-signatures for gemini and promote more self-signed certs
2020-05-16 10:50:29	xq	both are pretty nice 16 color palettes
2020-05-16 10:50:57	xq	tomasino: yeah, i understand that. but why should i click "yes, i trust this server" if i already do anyways because of the CA facility
2020-05-16 10:51:04	xq	(that's the idea at least)
2020-05-16 10:51:20	@tomasino	i mean why would you prompt at all?
2020-05-16 10:51:40	@tomasino	you should just accept it on first use, right?
2020-05-16 10:51:58	@tomasino	maybe have a "paranoid mode" or something so people can choose to manually accept new and changing certs?
2020-05-16 10:52:02	xq	well, i'd like to offer any of the ideas
2020-05-16 10:52:03	xq	like
2020-05-16 10:52:10	xq	you can set a trust level between
2020-05-16 10:52:33	@tomasino	ahh, i see
2020-05-16 10:52:54	@tomasino	well, then yeah... i guess if it's an option you can ramp up to that would be of value to some folks
2020-05-16 10:52:57	xq	[accept everything / auto-accept on first use / use CAs or ask on first sight / always ask on first sight / always ask when first seen in a session]
2020-05-16 10:53:22	@tomasino	as a casual user i want the cert bit to go away from my end-user experience
2020-05-16 10:53:28	xq	we should definitly not depend on the CA system, but we can utilize it anyways
2020-05-16 10:53:53	@tomasino	the part that confuses me is what happens if & when a self-signed cert changes
2020-05-16 10:53:55	xq	you could query the user what he wants on first start, save that option and allow changing it later
2020-05-16 10:54:09	xq	you mean the private key changes?
2020-05-16 10:54:10	@tomasino	should that be a warning to teh user or is that something servers are going to do all the time?
2020-05-16 10:54:28	xq	i change my *cert* every 5 days on my https server
2020-05-16 10:54:29	@tomasino	dunno! i know jetforce generates one when you run it
2020-05-16 10:54:47	xq	but the private key stays the same
2020-05-16 10:55:27	styan	xq: If you are going to add that many options, maybe add one to prevent it from writing to the disk?
2020-05-16 10:55:41	xq	that would be the last onee
2020-05-16 10:55:44	@tomasino	i guess if that's the technique servers are using then if a cert indicates that the private key changed then clients would be able to distinguish that change and warn of it
2020-05-16 10:55:50	xq	or the first one
2020-05-16 10:56:06	xq	"always accept" and "always ask on first sight in session""
2020-05-16 10:56:50	styan	auto-accept on first sight in a session?
2020-05-16 10:57:39	@tomasino	if you auto-accept, isn't it of more value to store the key so you know of a change later?
2020-05-16 10:58:25	xq	styan: usually certs don't change in a day
2020-05-16 10:58:48	styan	xq: Unless it gets hacked :-)
2020-05-16 10:58:54	xq	yes
2020-05-16 10:59:08	xq	but if the server gets hacked, you have lost anyways
2020-05-16 10:59:24	xq	TLS secures you against "outer attacks"
2020-05-16 11:00:04	styan	I guess I should have said MITMed
2020-05-16 11:00:16	xq	yeah true
2020-05-16 11:00:38	@tomasino	always ask on first sight in session. i can't read
2020-05-16 11:00:46	@tomasino	not auto-accept on first sight in session
2020-05-16 11:00:55	@tomasino	derpy derp
2020-05-16 11:02:03	@tomasino	oh, so i came up with what i'm gonna write about on gemini!
2020-05-16 11:02:35	@tomasino	i'm gonna use my gemlog to record thoughts and impressions as i watch old vintage tv shows
2020-05-16 11:02:49	cmccabe	welcome back kotter?
2020-05-16 11:02:49	@tomasino	i have one on The Adventures of Superman from the 1950s in my head
2020-05-16 11:02:59	@tomasino	i may go as late as kotter eventually
2020-05-16 11:03:17	cmccabe	:)
2020-05-16 11:03:19	@tomasino	i'll be starting with superman, patty duke, get smart, f-troop, and dobie gillis
2020-05-16 11:03:24	styan	Writing every host/key pair to the disk is a little too much like browsing history for my taste.
2020-05-16 11:03:38	styan	tomasino: That sounds neat!
2020-05-16 11:03:41	@tomasino	thanks!
2020-05-16 11:04:12	@tomasino	i'll leave the security stuff to you guys. I know barely enough of that junk to install a cert in apache or nginx, or run certbot
2020-05-16 11:04:57	xq	styan: well, it's the list of domains you ever interacted with, so might be some privacy issue, yes
2020-05-16 11:05:12	styan	tomasino: That is more than I have done :-)
2020-05-16 11:05:19	@tomasino	hah
2020-05-16 11:05:42	@tomasino	if you don't store them, does that make you more vulnerable? not noticing something is amiss?
2020-05-16 11:06:17	xq	yeah, you would not notice if someone would've MITMd a server between two sessions
2020-05-16 11:06:19	styan	xq: I am a strange person who tries very hard to keep my browser from storing persistent state by default.
2020-05-16 11:06:31	xq	styan: relatable
2020-05-16 11:06:43	xq	i'm the opposite guy, even using cloud features
2020-05-16 11:06:51	cmccabe	for people using lets encrypt certs, which are owner/group root by default, what did you do to give your gemini server access?
2020-05-16 11:06:54	xq	but i can see your position being reasoanble as well :D
2020-05-16 11:07:00	@tomasino	in a ca-signed cert world, not keeping them around is pretty simple
2020-05-16 11:07:21	@tomasino	but in self-signed land, detecting unexpected changes over time is harder without keeping a copy around
2020-05-16 11:07:53	@tomasino	cmccabe: i forget, but it was a pain in the butt
2020-05-16 11:08:19	cmccabe	that was the hang-up that kept me out of gemini serving for some time. i eventually went with self-signed to avoid the problem
2020-05-16 11:08:21	@tomasino	oh, no, i think i did something horrible like run the server as a service user that was added to the group with access to the certs
2020-05-16 11:09:01	@tomasino	but the more i'm reading on the mailing list the more i'm thinking i should break the letsencrypt connection. Leave that for my web stuff and let jetforce generate things for gemini
2020-05-16 11:09:31	@tomasino	i try to run exposed services as a service user in general when possible, so that part won't change
2020-05-16 11:09:46	cmccabe	that's a decent idea
2020-05-16 11:10:17	styan	I am trying to start writing a server, but I keep bike-shedding with myself about how to configure it.
2020-05-16 11:11:08	@tomasino	when gemini first got talked about by solderpunk i decided i wanted to write a server in Ada
2020-05-16 11:11:21	@tomasino	i got a port listener up pretty quick, but then i immidiately hit a wall on TLS
2020-05-16 11:11:44	@tomasino	no clue at all how to link to c-libs or whatever i'd need to do
2020-05-16 11:11:55	@tomasino	never done anything like that in all my programming career
2020-05-16 11:12:08	@tomasino	and so... here we are!
2020-05-16 11:12:16	xq	tomasino: i don't know for Ada, but it should be pretty easy in general
2020-05-16 11:12:25	xq	ada is a native language, so you can use any native TLS library
2020-05-16 11:12:33	xq	(which is sadly quite the pain for some of them)
2020-05-16 11:13:06	@tomasino	it's like anything, really. If you know what that entails, the terminology to search on or the processes involved, then it's probably easy. I have none of that so it's just a black hole of unknowns
2020-05-16 11:13:26	styan	I remember wanting to learn Ada before but it is very big, with no free version of the spec that I could find at the time.
2020-05-16 11:13:37	@tomasino	oh, weird
2020-05-16 11:13:42	@tomasino	it's all out there free now
2020-05-16 11:13:47	@tomasino	it is quite big, though
2020-05-16 11:14:10	xq	yeah
2020-05-16 11:14:17	@tomasino	I really like its philosophy and enjoy writing the verbose code for a change
2020-05-16 11:14:33	@tomasino	text handling is obnoxiously difficult for me though
2020-05-16 11:14:36	xq	fun fact: my (former) uni prof for computer languages is one of the main guys in Ada development and even has written the language manual :D
2020-05-16 11:14:48	@tomasino	that's cool as heck
2020-05-16 11:14:57	xq	yeah, he's a really cool dude
2020-05-16 11:15:01	cmccabe	i have a harebrained hankering to write a server in awk, but TLS is the part of the roadmap i think might be tough
2020-05-16 11:15:15	@tomasino	you can do a shell script that wraps openssl and passes to awk
2020-05-16 11:15:18	xq	Mr. Plödereder :D
2020-05-16 11:15:28	styan	xq: What tomasino said.
2020-05-16 11:15:34	@tomasino	i think you can subshell in awk itself too, but only in the gnu one
2020-05-16 11:15:38	⚡	cmccabe makes a note
2020-05-16 11:15:44	cmccabe	yes, gawk
2020-05-16 11:15:57	@tomasino	jan6: i summon thee....
2020-05-16 11:15:58	styan	You can subshell in any AWK
2020-05-16 11:16:06	@tomasino	what was your one-liner for gemini that does the openssl bit?
2020-05-16 11:16:17	styan	`command | getline'
2020-05-16 11:16:18	xq	openssl s_client --connect host.name
2020-05-16 11:16:20	jan6	printf 'gemini://konpeito.media/index-mild.gmi\r\n' | openssl s_client -connect konpeito.media:1965 -quiet -verify_quiet
2020-05-16 11:16:21	jan6	yes
2020-05-16 11:16:25	jan6	both might work
2020-05-16 11:17:00	@tomasino	there ya go, cmccabe ... you have half your program right there
2020-05-16 11:17:13	cmccabe	bob's your uncle. thanks!
2020-05-16 11:17:15	@tomasino	i have a gopher awk parser if you want it to start from
2020-05-16 11:17:16	jan6	lol
2020-05-16 11:17:36	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles-minimal/blob/master/bin/gophermap.awk
2020-05-16 11:17:47	xq	funky, i cannot connect to conmans site…
2020-05-16 11:17:59	cmccabe	i have an awk gopher parser on rawtext.club, written by ~trnslts.  it would be neat to compare with yours, tomasino
2020-05-16 11:18:13	@tomasino	oh that would be neat
2020-05-16 11:18:30	cmccabe	let me see if trnslts has it in a repo anywhere
2020-05-16 11:18:50	@tomasino	i use this one for testing things sometimes
2020-05-16 11:18:57	@tomasino	curl | ...
2020-05-16 11:19:17	@tomasino	or locally cat | ...
2020-05-16 11:20:09	xq	btw
2020-05-16 11:20:24	xq	i cannot connect to gemini.conman.org with openssl
2020-05-16 11:20:34	@tomasino	oh?
2020-05-16 11:20:56	@tomasino	crap, i'm on the wrong machine... julienxx where's your castor repo again?
2020-05-16 11:20:59	@tomasino	i need to install it here
2020-05-16 11:21:10	@tomasino	source hut somewhere?
2020-05-16 11:21:31	@tomasino	i installed the dependencies the other day, but then i upgraded to ubuntu 20.04 so... we'll see how this goes
2020-05-16 11:21:40	@julienxx	https://git.sr.ht/~julienxx/castor
2020-05-16 11:21:55	@tomasino	danke
2020-05-16 11:22:33	@tomasino	cargo is fetching stuff, so i guess we're good
2020-05-16 11:22:36	styan	I got "unable to get local issuer certificate" from OpenBSD netcat
2020-05-16 11:22:51	@tomasino	maybe it's a complex new test!
2020-05-16 11:23:06	@tomasino	that he didn't tell anyone about
2020-05-16 11:23:12	@tomasino	you found the secret
2020-05-16 11:23:15	styan	With `-T noverify' it works though
2020-05-16 11:24:02	@tomasino	nope, i need to install those dependencies again
2020-05-16 11:24:10	⚡	tomasino checks the #gemini logs f or them again
2020-05-16 11:24:39	styan	It is just a certificate verification error, not an easter-egg.
2020-05-16 11:24:54	styan	Sadly
2020-05-16 11:25:08	⚡	tomasino gives styan and xq a blue ribbon anyway
2020-05-16 11:25:20	xq	blue ribbon?
2020-05-16 11:25:46	styan	We got a prize for finding a not-easter-egg :-)
2020-05-16 11:25:50	xq	ah!
2020-05-16 11:25:52	xq	\o/
2020-05-16 11:26:21	@tomasino	congrats
2020-05-16 11:31:12	styan	My server's config format is turning into a hardcoded version of a Forth DSL...
2020-05-16 11:33:23	xq	push push pop!
2020-05-16 11:35:10	styan	The hard-coded means no stack... yet :-)
2020-05-16 11:36:37	styan	I honestly thought about having a boolean stack just for using and/or/xor with conditionals...
2020-05-16 12:11:54	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 12:32:03	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 12:37:08	xq	yiss!
2020-05-16 12:37:15	xq	i now understand how to do TOFU
2020-05-16 12:37:36	xq	just put the certificate chain the server delivers into your trust store and be happy about that
2020-05-16 12:37:48	xq	which means atm i can only accept conmans site lol
2020-05-16 12:45:07	login	be careful xq
2020-05-16 12:45:16	styan	I am not entirely sure of what that means, but I just compared hashes, and I think bombadillo compares the whole certificate.
2020-05-16 12:45:22	login	the certificate in that trust chain can sign any website's cert
2020-05-16 12:45:29	login	you have to compare the public key only
2020-05-16 12:58:33	xq	login: a, thanks! :)
2020-05-16 12:58:43	xq	still good to know how to extract the server certs :)
2020-05-16 13:00:03	xq	it's reasonable to use PEM files everywhere, right? :D
2020-05-16 13:00:05	login	yeah, definitely
2020-05-16 13:00:09	login	no knowledge goes waste ever
2020-05-16 13:00:28	xq	yep
2020-05-16 13:00:51	xq	i'm still new to all of this SSL stuff
2020-05-16 13:04:54	~tiwesdaeg	emacs makes me cry
2020-05-16 13:05:12	~tiwesdaeg	I finally figured I'd try and get elpher working to test it out
2020-05-16 13:11:07	styan	I wrote some kind of client in AWK: https://paste.tildeverse.org/?ab67fa6f3bc00cba#H84Lj577R4t2iCyvXJGWTGZ8eirMMnkDJBiZSoNMPtFS
2020-05-16 13:12:11	styan	It only works with LibreSSL nc(1), if you do not replace netcat with something else.
2020-05-16 13:14:07	styan	I forgot to wrap it up in getopts(1).
2020-05-16 13:34:42	login	v nice
2020-05-16 14:58:06		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-16 15:01:40	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 15:24:39		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-16 15:29:54	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 15:50:11	kaoD	is there a changelog for spec-spec, or is it just announcements in the mailing list?
2020-05-16 16:03:33	@julienxx	for now I think there were just discussions in the list and the spec was updated
2020-05-16 16:04:26	login	h
2020-05-16 16:13:26	@tomasino	in the beginning solderpunk kept all his updates in gopher discussions. you can still see the history of those on his gopher hole. once the mailing list got going decisions started showing up there instead
2020-05-16 16:19:59	login	gopher cgi forum?
2020-05-16 16:20:28	@julienxx	gemini cgi forum even better
2020-05-16 16:34:44	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-05-16 16:35:06	~tiwesdaeg	what kind of input options are even available for gemini?
2020-05-16 16:35:17	~tiwesdaeg	gopher has the search type
2020-05-16 16:46:35	@tomasino	we have gopher polls
2020-05-16 16:46:42	@tomasino	and some weak guestbook stuff
2020-05-16 17:24:51	@julienxx	Gemini has a generic input type, some kind of POST request
2020-05-16 17:41:24	~tiwesdaeg	were we talking about reasonably priced 4 letter domains in here?
2020-05-16 17:41:51	~tiwesdaeg	I think I found the only tld left at a decent price, .ci
2020-05-16 17:46:47	login	trauis.ci
2020-05-16 17:47:05	~tiwesdaeg	as in xx.ci
2020-05-16 17:47:10	~tiwesdaeg	pick two characters
2020-05-16 18:10:07	login	ra.ci
2020-05-16 18:10:23	login	ci.xi
2020-05-16 18:10:32	login	ea.ci
2020-05-16 18:10:53	login	bc.ci
2020-05-16 18:11:04	login	ac.ci
2020-05-16 18:11:14	login	la.ci
2020-05-16 18:26:43	lucidiot	lu.ci/diot
2020-05-16 19:24:09	@tomasino	ic.ci?
2020-05-16 19:57:48	jan6	ugh
2020-05-16 19:58:06	jan6	remaking my konpeito downloader in python
2020-05-16 19:58:17	jan6	the fact the spec says the whitespace is optional, is annoying
2020-05-16 21:01:40		lucidiot has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-16 21:29:55		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-16 21:39:11	makeworld	julienxx: tiwesdaeg: RE: gemini forum - I've been thinking about writing a gemini comment system, so that people can easily add comments and like functionality to their gemlogs
2020-05-16 21:39:27	makeworld	It would just use the regular gemini input, like status code 10
2020-05-16 21:40:43	makeworld	Making it work as CGI might be hard though, but I worry that if I write it as a separate Jetforce or Go server people won't be as likely to add it
2020-05-16 21:40:54	⚡	makeworld shrugs
2020-05-16 21:44:38	@julienxx	Could work, I’m not a fan of comments myself, I’d rather get some email but I can see the appeal
2020-05-16 21:49:59	~tiwesdaeg	export $OPENSSL_DIR="/usr/pkg"
2020-05-16 21:50:18	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: the magic needed for castor and gemserv on netbsd
2020-05-16 21:51:44	@julienxx	Ha good to know I should add that to the README
2020-05-16 21:52:09	@tomasino	https://labs.tomasino.org/comments/
2020-05-16 21:52:54	~tiwesdaeg	of course that means it looks for libs in the wrong place too
2020-05-16 21:53:05	~tiwesdaeg	castor: Shared object "libssl.so.1.1" not found
2020-05-16 21:54:31	@julienxx	tomasino: agree 100%
2020-05-16 21:55:39	@julienxx	netbsd and rust-openssl don’t get along :/
2020-05-16 21:56:12	~tiwesdaeg	there are lots of missing libs ;P
2020-05-16 21:56:17	@julienxx	I remember you had issues with Asuka which uses the same rust lib
2020-05-16 21:56:25	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure how kosher it is to symbollically link them all
2020-05-16 21:58:43	~tiwesdaeg	finally got it to run after like 10 symbolic links
2020-05-16 21:58:54	~tiwesdaeg	gtk is complaining about missing icons
2020-05-16 21:59:42	~tiwesdaeg	I'll have to play with it later
2020-05-16 22:02:20	@julienxx	This is a issue I already saw, I needed to install a basic theme like adwaita
2020-05-16 22:03:17	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-16 22:16:51	epoch	with a properly setup mailto: handler just having mailto:comments@my-site&subject=URL-being-commented-on would be fine?
2020-05-16 22:17:02	epoch	err ?subject*
2020-05-16 22:17:07	jan6	this is one of the reasons why static linking is da bomb ;P
2020-05-16 22:21:12	~tiwesdaeg	the icon theme did it, thanks
2020-05-16 22:27:09	jan6	@forum, one could always rig up a mail-based comment system that automatically proccesses the mails
2020-05-16 22:28:07	jan6	if incorrect format, reply with error, else if command == null or add or edit or delete, do_command
2020-05-16 22:30:01	@julienxx	Could
2020-05-16 22:31:33	@julienxx	(Sorry typing on mobile doesn’t help)I’m quite sure cmccabe FriSBE could be used https://rawtext.club/~frisbee/
2020-05-16 22:35:20	⚡	southerntofu always enjoys frisbee's pizza
2020-05-16 22:41:30	@julienxx	Email is the best
2020-05-16 22:52:06	epoch	building castor on debian, so far have needed to install librust-pango-dev and librust-atk-dev
2020-05-16 22:54:56	epoch	and librust-gdk-dev
2020-05-16 22:59:16	@tomasino	epoch: apt install build-essential rustc cargo libgtk-3-dev libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev libssl-dev
2020-05-16 22:59:21	@tomasino	that's what it took me
2020-05-16 22:59:42	@tomasino	then i could just make & make install
2020-05-16 22:59:43	epoch	you probably already had pango?
2020-05-16 22:59:50	@tomasino	i had nada
2020-05-16 23:00:11	epoch	yeah, I just did git clone, then cd, then make then apt install whatever it errors at
2020-05-16 23:00:12	@tomasino	never touched rust stuff on either of my boxen
2020-05-16 23:00:28	epoch	guess I already had rust and cargo installed
2020-05-16 23:00:36	@tomasino	that helps! :)
2020-05-16 23:00:46	epoch	and libssl-dev
2020-05-16 23:00:53	@tomasino	julien had grabbed that list of stuff from one of the mailing list emails, i think
2020-05-16 23:00:59	@tomasino	i just grab it from weechat logs now when i need it
2020-05-16 23:01:38	epoch	seems like something that would go good in an INSTALL file in the repo
2020-05-16 23:01:48	epoch	it might already be there, I haven't looked.
2020-05-16 23:02:12	epoch	it is
2020-05-16 23:02:31	epoch	in README.md
2020-05-16 23:05:27	epoch	I had a couple shell scripts for doing gemini client things and I had them named castor and the other pollux, the dir I put them in was dioscuri I think
2020-05-16 23:06:28	epoch	I'll probably name them from a different gemini reference.
2020-05-16 23:06:34	@tomasino	haha
2020-05-16 23:06:39	@tomasino	yay for readme
2020-05-16 23:08:33	epoch	NASA references probably would work better, since outer*space* and cyber*space*
2020-05-16 23:10:00	epoch	merp. castor's 'install' target failed
2020-05-16 23:10:20	epoch	update-desktop-database
2020-05-16 23:10:42	epoch	tried to use the global /usr/local/share/applications instead of using $PREFIX, or $prefix
2020-05-16 23:11:17	epoch	maybe I just need XDG_DATA_DIRS set?
2020-05-16 23:12:20	epoch	yeah, that fixed it.
2020-05-16 23:12:30	styan	I made my AWK client handle user-input and redirects, and wrote a man-page, now it is almost like a real client: https://tildegit.org/styan/geminawk
2020-05-16 23:12:36	⚡	epoch shoves: export XDG_DATA_DIRS=/home/epoch/.local/share into bashrc
2020-05-16 23:13:22	@tomasino	I like xdg
2020-05-16 23:13:39	⚡	epoch first does: castor --help
2020-05-16 23:13:59	epoch	"Could not connect to --help:1965"
2020-05-16 23:14:02	epoch	:)
2020-05-16 23:14:43	@tomasino	Love it
2020-05-16 23:14:54	@tomasino	Geminiawk is gonna be my fav
2020-05-16 23:15:16	@tomasino	That's code I know how to mess with!
2020-05-16 23:15:31	epoch	bunch of stuff like: "Error loading theme icon 'list-add' for stock: Icon 'list-add' not present in theme Adwaita"
2020-05-16 23:15:37	epoch	guess I need to install some icon packs?
2020-05-16 23:15:58	styan	tomasino: It probably only works on OpenBSD, so probably start playing with it on tilde.black :-)
2020-05-16 23:16:09	epoch	were there no good icons in unicode that could have been used instead of trying to find images?
2020-05-16 23:16:10	@tomasino	Woo
2020-05-16 23:18:05	styan	vis(1) does not appear to be a thing in Linux land.
2020-05-16 23:18:55	epoch	you can get it.
2020-05-16 23:19:07	@tomasino	What's it do? ( On mobile)
2020-05-16 23:19:20	epoch	it does conversions kind of
2020-05-16 23:19:31	epoch	like, you can encode stuff as html entities, or decode with unvis
2020-05-16 23:19:38	epoch	or percent encoding
2020-05-16 23:19:39	styan	Converts non-visable characters to a visual representation.
2020-05-16 23:19:43	@tomasino	Ahh
2020-05-16 23:19:44	epoch	or mail-format or something
2020-05-16 23:20:02	styan	It also has percent-encoding for URLs, for some reason.
2020-05-16 23:21:21	epoch	I wrote my own tools to do html entities and percent encoding that I use in shell scripts a lot
2020-05-16 23:21:22	styan	If `cat -v' is considered harmful, what would a `cat --uri-percent-encoding' be considered to be?  :-)
2020-05-16 23:23:24	@tomasino	in the same way, yes
2020-05-16 23:23:28	styan	Oh, I almost forgot, the syntax-highlighting breaks on tildegit with geminawk.sh
2020-05-16 23:23:34	@tomasino	that a program should specialize in it
2020-05-16 23:23:38	@tomasino	and therefore, who cares
2020-05-16 23:23:40	@tomasino	do what you want. ;D
2020-05-16 23:24:02	@tomasino	yeah, syntax highlighting of awk inside a shell script is tricksy
2020-05-16 23:24:53	styan	I put a lot of single-quotes inside single-quotes.
2020-05-16 23:25:56	@tomasino	there's the EOF <<< trick for awk inside a shell script
2020-05-16 23:26:16	@tomasino	https://stackoverflow.com/a/15020506
2020-05-16 23:26:43	@tomasino	if you're going to write a lot of awk inside i find that easier to work with
2020-05-16 23:26:44	epoch	multiple languages in a single file probably break most syntax highlighters?
2020-05-16 23:26:57	@tomasino	yarp
2020-05-16 23:27:25	styan	It was not syntax-highlighting the AWK, it just stopped considering the quoted string a quoted string.
2020-05-16 23:27:52	@tomasino	or a more thorough explanation of here-docing awk nside a shell script is here: https://superuser.com/a/440059
2020-05-16 23:28:25		kaoD has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-16 23:29:37	styan	I thought that `$VAR' is expanded by the shell in here-documents?
2020-05-16 23:29:43	@tomasino	geminiawk works great on ~black
2020-05-16 23:30:45	@tomasino	give it a shot. i've used it in the past well
2020-05-16 23:30:58	@tomasino	and yeah, it does NOT work on ubuntu. :D
2020-05-16 23:31:06	@tomasino	netcat choked right out of the gate
2020-05-16 23:32:05	styan	Read the CAVEATS section on how to fix that without editing it.
2020-05-16 23:32:35	@tomasino	ahh, coolio
2020-05-16 23:33:25	styan	It should be a simple as `NC=openssl NCFLAGS=sclient...'
2020-05-16 23:33:35	styan	Then everything except user-input will work.
2020-05-16 23:33:57	epoch	oh no, regex for parsing URIs, may I interest you in some uri parsing code I have? :)
2020-05-16 23:34:25	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/uritools/
2020-05-16 23:35:48	@tomasino	but then it wouldn't be an awk thing anymore
2020-05-16 23:35:49	@tomasino	:P
2020-05-16 23:36:06	@tomasino	styan: installed it on black
2020-05-16 23:36:12	@tomasino	i'll update as you go
2020-05-16 23:36:12	epoch	you're already using shell
2020-05-16 23:36:31	styan	The URI RFC actually gives you regular-expressions to parse URIs though :-)
2020-05-16 23:36:41	@tomasino	ahh, nice
2020-05-16 23:36:43	@tomasino	yay RFCs
2020-05-16 23:37:05	styan	And they are a lot more lenient than what I wrote.
2020-05-16 23:37:44	epoch	usually the people that write regexes to do URI stuff don't use the regexes from the RFC
2020-05-16 23:38:54	epoch	they're like is "^https?://[a-z.:-]/[a-z/_.-]*" good enough?
2020-05-16 23:39:46	styan	I bet, the URI spec is a bit convoluted.
2020-05-16 23:41:17	jan6	sure is
2020-05-16 23:41:38	styan	I went though the RFC's syntax part over and over again writing a URI validator in C.  The way it specifies IPv6 addresses is unnecessarily confusing.
2020-05-16 23:41:41	@tomasino	I made a t-shirt out of the email RFC regex
2020-05-16 23:42:00	jan6	lol
2020-05-16 23:42:08	jan6	the mail regex is a classic
2020-05-16 23:42:14	@tomasino	Let me see if I can find it
2020-05-16 23:43:35	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/Ex-.png
2020-05-16 23:44:08	@tomasino	i have a lovely illustrator file for it as well in case anyone wants to go get one printed
2020-05-16 23:44:25	styan	Also, the fact that nc(1) *actually* parses what it gets helps me be less parinoid about using the regular-expressions.
2020-05-16 23:44:57	styan	tomasino: That is a fun shirt
2020-05-16 23:45:06	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/E-D.ai - adobe illustrator vector version
2020-05-16 23:45:19	jan6	tomasino: do the perl/ruby version instead P;
2020-05-16 23:45:19	@tomasino	i have one in my closet
2020-05-16 23:45:20	jan6	;P
2020-05-16 23:45:34	@tomasino	i was planning on doing more tshirts based on RFCs
2020-05-16 23:45:49	@tomasino	the next one, which i haven't done yet, was going to be the ascii table
2020-05-16 23:46:04	@tomasino	RFC 20
2020-05-16 23:46:16	styan	That is a much longer one that what I saw: ^(([^:/?#]+):)?(//([^/?#]*))?([^?#]*)(\?([^#]*))?(#(.*))?
2020-05-16 23:46:41	jan6	it depends on language
2020-05-16 23:46:50	jan6	https://emailregex.com/
2020-05-16 23:47:15	jan6	Perl / Ruby variant is the best, lol
2020-05-16 23:47:23	@tomasino	there's the functional regex and there's the RFC
2020-05-16 23:47:28	@tomasino	the RFC is just plain silly
2020-05-16 23:47:32	@tomasino	and that's why it's tshirt worthy
2020-05-16 23:47:48	styan	jan6: I am tempted to write a Tcl version.
2020-05-16 23:48:19	jan6	did you look at the perl/ruby variant, styan?
2020-05-16 23:48:27	jan6	keep that in mind before you try
2020-05-16 23:48:31	jan6	but otherwise, go for it ;P
2020-05-16 23:49:47	@tomasino	:)
2020-05-16 23:50:15	styan	tomasino: I got that regex from this RFC: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#page-50
2020-05-16 23:50:44	styan	jan6: I did, but I quickly looked away.  It is huge!
2020-05-16 23:50:51	@tomasino	that one would be really cool
2020-05-16 23:51:48	jan6	hehe
2020-05-16 23:52:12	jan6	I said, keep that in mind, because your TCL version may or may not get close ;P
2020-05-16 23:52:17	styan	Tcl strings are always UTF-8, so I think it would be a bit easier.
2020-05-16 23:54:18	styan	Oh, a lot of those do not have line-breaks, and have horizontal scroll bars...
2020-05-16 23:58:26	styan	I think you need to rebuild the man-page database for man(1) to find the man-page.
2020-05-16 23:58:53	styan	Oops, wrong channel
2020-05-16 23:59:11	styan	tomasino: That was for you ^
2020-05-17 00:01:23	@tomasino	 oh?
2020-05-17 00:01:26	▬▬▶	quinnj has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 00:05:21	quinnj	Hi, I heard about this recently and I'd like to use it for my site; I was wondering what the most sensible way to indicate a page title is? Should I just use a single-hash header at the top?
2020-05-17 00:06:02	@tomasino	that's the best for a top level heading, so i'd say so
2020-05-17 00:06:18	@tomasino	but some people prefer the less accessible, but fancier, ascii art header
2020-05-17 00:06:22	@tomasino	or figlet style
2020-05-17 00:06:29	@tomasino	it's really up to you
2020-05-17 00:06:41	quinnj	ah, okay
2020-05-17 00:07:17	quinnj	I was just asking because using a single-hash header would take up a level for the whole document
2020-05-17 00:07:27	@tomasino	that's true
2020-05-17 00:07:43	@tomasino	I'm more of a figlet guy myself
2020-05-17 00:07:49	makeworld	But that's how most markdown is written anyway
2020-05-17 00:07:53	@tomasino	if you decided to go the art way just be sure to code-fence it
2020-05-17 00:08:09	@tomasino	true, makeworld, but gemini only has 3 level 
2020-05-17 00:08:12	makeworld	With using a single header at the top, and all the subsequent headers are h2, aka ##
2020-05-17 00:08:13	makeworld	Yeah
2020-05-17 00:08:47	makeworld	I wouldn't worry to much about using multiple levels though. Idk why it only has 3 when Markdown has 6, it doesn't make much difference imo
2020-05-17 00:08:53	@tomasino	i'm excited about the alt-text in code fencing stuff getting discussed
2020-05-17 00:08:55	@tomasino	i hope that happens
2020-05-17 00:09:15	makeworld	Yeah
2020-05-17 00:09:32	makeworld	It'd be nice to support ANSI codes properly, it's just complicated
2020-05-17 00:09:37	@tomasino	there's just books worth of discussion in all that in the archives
2020-05-17 00:09:41	makeworld	Because having color like some sites do is super nice
2020-05-17 00:10:07	@tomasino	that was also discussed. to use term stuff or not. since many people are making graphical clients now it makes less sense
2020-05-17 00:10:13	@tomasino	so do you allow it and strip it or disallow it
2020-05-17 00:10:16	@tomasino	and blah blah blah
2020-05-17 00:10:19	@tomasino	endless rounds
2020-05-17 00:10:21	makeworld	The main issue from those discussions seemed to be security bc of some certain codes right?
2020-05-17 00:10:33	@tomasino	the arguement against it is 2-fold
2020-05-17 00:10:37	makeworld	Yeah, but I don't think it would be that hard for graphical clients to parse
2020-05-17 00:10:41	makeworld	Oh yeah?
2020-05-17 00:10:56	@tomasino	1) the codes are not just color, and could represent security issues, or a clear screen, or all sorts of crap
2020-05-17 00:11:13	@tomasino	2) they're terminal based which makes no sense outside a term
2020-05-17 00:11:28	@tomasino	but as soon as you get into what ELSE to use, now we're adding styling markup
2020-05-17 00:11:34	@tomasino	and that has a hard no
2020-05-17 00:12:14	@tomasino	i think we'll probably ignore it in the spec and people will use them and they'll just work in terminal clients
2020-05-17 00:12:19	@tomasino	and graphical clients may learn to strip them
2020-05-17 00:12:23	@tomasino	or not adn get junk
2020-05-17 00:12:28	@tomasino	we'll see, though
2020-05-17 00:12:39	@tomasino	konpeito, like a boss, is doing the right move
2020-05-17 00:12:52	@tomasino	add actual content and just do the thing you want to see work
2020-05-17 00:13:01	@tomasino	and people want to go there, so bam... support shows up
2020-05-17 00:13:10	@tomasino	cat's awesome though adn gives you the non-spicy option too
2020-05-17 00:13:42	styan	You are making me wonder what sites I have visited (other than konpeito) have color. (my terminals are set to monochrome)
2020-05-17 00:15:18	@tomasino	not sure! :D
2020-05-17 00:15:25	@tomasino	i may add some to fox
2020-05-17 00:15:35	@tomasino	i'm about to journal a thing!
2020-05-17 00:15:53	styan	Exciting!
2020-05-17 00:21:34	cat	genin has color on ~black but i'm
2020-05-17 00:21:49	cat	not sure i mirrorred it on gemini or just left it on gopher
2020-05-17 00:24:59	makeworld	The advantage of ANSI codes I think, is that you get styling without needing to invent styling markup
2020-05-17 00:25:09	makeworld	Cause they already exist
2020-05-17 00:25:10	epoch	looks like castor cleans up the URI before sending it, like removing ../s and stuff
2020-05-17 00:25:22	epoch	so I'll have to test directory traversals with something else
2020-05-17 00:25:50	makeworld	You could use a lower level client like gurl or the one I wrote, gemget
2020-05-17 00:26:20	makeworld	Also I a new project to announce. You heard it here first folks!
2020-05-17 00:26:21	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/md2gemini
2020-05-17 00:26:27	styan	epoch: Non of my clients clean that up.
2020-05-17 00:26:35	makeworld	Markdown to Gemini converter
2020-05-17 00:26:45	xq	hey makeworld :)
2020-05-17 00:26:50	makeworld	Gonna announce on the mailing list now too
2020-05-17 00:26:53	xq	gurl is maybe perfect for a low-level job atm :D
2020-05-17 00:26:58	⚡	makeworld waves
2020-05-17 00:27:00	xq	it can only do "raw requests"
2020-05-17 00:27:03	xq	but it works! :)
2020-05-17 00:27:19	xq	working on the TOFU stuff atm
2020-05-17 00:27:20	@tomasino	i'm flowing into this new content well
2020-05-17 00:27:32	@tomasino	i'm gonna keep fox to a single level deep
2020-05-17 00:27:35	xq	have to get that running, then i can continue with more interesting parts :D
2020-05-17 00:27:47	@tomasino	all updates will be on my root gophermap and link to the relevant document. No phlog subfolder to aggregate
2020-05-17 00:27:54	@tomasino	or gemlog, or whatever
2020-05-17 00:28:34	@tomasino	also, hi cat!
2020-05-17 00:33:08	makeworld	I'm hoping the tool I wrote can be used to auto convert existing blogs to gemini
2020-05-17 00:33:12	makeworld	Or allow for dual hosting
2020-05-17 00:33:28	makeworld	Like write in Markdown and use jekyll for HTTP, and md2gemini for gemini
2020-05-17 00:35:45	@tomasino	back to writing!
2020-05-17 00:58:35	epoch	so, if someone sends my gemini server a directory traversal attempt, I should respond with a code 59?
2020-05-17 00:59:01	epoch	(assuming I /don't/ want to leave it as an easter egg)
2020-05-17 00:59:27	xq	so you mean access gemini://your.server/../lol
2020-05-17 00:59:28	xq	?
2020-05-17 00:59:50	xq	yeah sounds like a 59 to me
2020-05-17 01:00:48	epoch	yeah, that's what I meant.
2020-05-17 01:02:32	epoch	gemini://batou.thebackupbox.net/
2020-05-17 01:02:41	epoch	I might make a cname for gemini.thebackupbox.net later
2020-05-17 01:05:46	epoch	the oneko that runs around on my screen causes visible blinking of full-window refreshes in castor
2020-05-17 01:06:16	epoch	not sure if that's fixable easily
2020-05-17 01:06:25	epoch	like be a gdk bug or something
2020-05-17 01:07:20	epoch	the X server will tell X clients which parts need to be refreshed, but the code probably just redraws everything if any bit gets an expose or something
2020-05-17 01:09:22	epoch	looks like castor doesn't trust servers to know that what they're sending is a URI?
2020-05-17 01:09:44	epoch	tried something like: =>madeup+uri://lolwat/wellheck
2020-05-17 01:09:49	epoch	silently ignored it
2020-05-17 01:13:11	epoch	also, tried to show a plaintext version of a gemini file, but it seems like castor is mime sniffing
2020-05-17 01:13:52	epoch	IRC is probably not the best place to submit bug reports
2020-05-17 01:15:23	xq	epoch: thanks for the test case
2020-05-17 01:20:27	xq	also epoch: my library tells me that your certificate is not valid for /batou.thebackupbox.net?
2020-05-17 01:21:03	epoch	that makes sense, I just reused whatever cert I had laying around for my http daemon
2020-05-17 01:21:10	xq	haha okay :D
2020-05-17 01:21:21	epoch	I'll generate a real one later
2020-05-17 01:21:29	epoch	it'll have its own private key and stuff
2020-05-17 01:21:33	xq	works without gemini/batou prefix :)
2020-05-17 01:21:38	epoch	just have to update my makefile
2020-05-17 01:21:56	styan	epoch: gemini://batou.thebackupbox.net/a_page returns the text/gemini mime-type, so that might be your issue.
2020-05-17 01:22:14	epoch	oh, wtf?
2020-05-17 01:22:31	epoch	piss
2020-05-17 01:22:35	epoch	yeah, I'm wrong.
2020-05-17 01:22:50	⚡	epoch sets to text/plain
2020-05-17 01:23:57	epoch	yep, works now. :)
2020-05-17 01:24:10	styan	It would have been funny if it did not. :-)
2020-05-17 01:24:21		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-17 01:24:32	epoch	(I don't have .gmi setup to use text/gemini yet, so viewing index.gmi directly will show its source)
2020-05-17 01:24:48	epoch	hrm.. view-source:gemini://thebackupbox.net/ ?
2020-05-17 01:25:04	epoch	that might be handy.
2020-05-17 01:25:14	epoch	it complains about port number when I try that now
2020-05-17 01:44:45		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-17 01:48:20		jan has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-17 01:48:26		lel has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-05-17 01:48:26		mhj has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-05-17 01:48:26		dkibi has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-05-17 01:48:26		creme has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-05-17 01:48:26		StygianBlues has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-05-17 01:48:26		pokes has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-05-17 01:48:27	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 01:48:41	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 01:48:52	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 01:49:35	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 01:50:06	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 01:50:37	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 01:50:59	@tomasino	wowza
2020-05-17 01:51:01	@tomasino	that took a while
2020-05-17 01:51:16	@tomasino	please check out fox's gemspace on tilde.black
2020-05-17 01:51:22	@tomasino	there's something wonderful for you all
2020-05-17 01:51:28	@tomasino	cat: ^
2020-05-17 01:54:38	styan	tomasino: It will be neat if you do one from 1965 :-)
2020-05-17 01:54:48	@tomasino	:D i'll get there!
2020-05-17 01:55:46	@tomasino	exclusive long-form content on obscure nerdy, but non-technical topics
2020-05-17 01:55:56	@tomasino	that's my new gemini bag, baby
2020-05-17 01:56:17	xq	tomasino: nice write
2020-05-17 01:56:42	xq	i actually think to start a blog on my website as well, served via gemini and http
2020-05-17 01:56:51	@tomasino	julienxx: feature request!
2020-05-17 01:57:07	@tomasino	i want to add the ```art things and the ``` alt text closing things
2020-05-17 01:57:20	@tomasino	but if i add anything except JUST the ``` castor doesn't parse it well
2020-05-17 01:57:55	@tomasino	if you tweak that to only check the first 3 characters and ignore the rest of the line it'll work perfect and flexibly
2020-05-17 02:05:23	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 02:05:23	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-05-17 02:36:47	epoch	merp.
2020-05-17 02:37:02	epoch	was looking at what castor uses to open random files
2020-05-17 02:37:13	epoch	uses open::that
2020-05-17 02:37:29	epoch	which tries 4 different hard-coded program names
2020-05-17 02:37:45	epoch	xdg-open, gnome-open, kde-open, and wslview
2020-05-17 02:38:27	epoch	https://docs.rs/open/1.4.0/src/open/lib.rs.html#58-76
2020-05-17 02:39:13	epoch	so looks like I'll have to hijack xdg-open
2020-05-17 02:40:05	epoch	also, I really hate how stuff will know exactly that the mime-type of a file is supposed to be, but never pass it on to something like xdg-open
2020-05-17 02:40:37	epoch	and rely on libmagic instead
2020-05-17 02:41:57	epoch	like, a second argument xdg-open 'filepath' 'mime/type-we-want-to-treat-it-as'
2020-05-17 02:43:41	xq	xdg-open does not have an entry for the mime type in my man page
2020-05-17 02:44:37	⚡	styan Is surprised to find xdg-open(1) on my computer.
2020-05-17 02:45:53	styan	Oh, I have devel/xdg-utils installed for xdg-settings(1)
2020-05-17 02:50:19	epoch	I'm saying that it should be added
2020-05-17 02:50:23	epoch	to xdg-open
2020-05-17 02:50:28	xq	yeah, true
2020-05-17 02:51:09	epoch	then programs that try to call out to external programs for "hey, can I get this file to open" will start sending an extra "by the way, it is probably this/type of file"
2020-05-17 02:52:24	epoch	I'm doing something like the two-argument thing using a file: URI instead
2020-05-17 02:52:38	epoch	with the mime-type as a query param
2020-05-17 02:55:01	epoch	so if I do: uristart file://home/epoch/anything?mime-type=text/plain it'll open it with my plain-text editor, even if the mime sniffing would have said it was an image or a directory
2020-05-17 02:55:21	epoch	err
2020-05-17 02:55:26	epoch	need more /s after the :
2020-05-17 02:55:50	epoch	or one less..
2020-05-17 02:57:26	styan	I am fairly sure just one is fine.  But more slashes go to the same place anyway.
2020-05-17 02:58:25	epoch	zero or two is the only wrong way
2020-05-17 02:58:38	epoch	file://home/epoch is /epoch on the "home" host
2020-05-17 02:59:14	epoch	zero would have it be a path of home/epoch instead of /home/epoch
2020-05-17 03:04:39	epoch	https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/mime-apps-spec/ links to gmane.org
2020-05-17 03:04:45	epoch	gmane.org lost its domain
2020-05-17 03:04:52	epoch	so they're on gmane.io, but
2020-05-17 03:04:58	xq	afaik it should be file:/home/epoch
2020-05-17 03:05:02	epoch	they don't allow you to view stuff over http anymore
2020-05-17 03:05:09	⚡	xq quotes: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3.3
2020-05-17 03:05:10	styan	I was wrong, *technically* only one slash, or two if the the first component is a valid authority, is valid.
2020-05-17 03:05:42	epoch	or, time to check that an NNTP client is installed
2020-05-17 03:06:11	styan	epoch: archive.org?
2020-05-17 03:06:13	epoch	so*
2020-05-17 03:06:49	epoch	mmmeh. I want as recent as possible.
2020-05-17 03:07:02	epoch	looks like pan is crashing. :/
2020-05-17 03:07:28	epoch	guess I could try lynx
2020-05-17 03:08:25	⚡	epoch installs tin
2020-05-17 03:09:38	epoch	hrm. tin -r tries to read news.[my-domain]
2020-05-17 03:09:58	xq	hey, anyone in for a small test?
2020-05-17 03:10:00	xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/gurl/releases/tag/v0.1
2020-05-17 03:10:07	xq	gurl just reached "usable" state
2020-05-17 03:11:57	xq	ROFL
2020-05-17 03:12:21	xq	I'm laughing so hard right now
2020-05-17 03:12:28	epoch	tin -g news.gmane.io gmane.linux.xdg.devel
2020-05-17 03:13:13	epoch	latest post is... May 8th 2020
2020-05-17 03:14:23	styan	xq: It did not compile on FreeBSD 13-CURRENT "InvalidAbiVersion"
2020-05-17 03:14:34	styan	I would blame Zig though.
2020-05-17 03:15:25	xq	oh? can you tell me more?
2020-05-17 03:15:36	xq	would be nice to have freebsd supported as well :)
2020-05-17 03:16:05	xq	i've seen that there is no cross-libc for freebsd, otherwise i would've built a file for you guys already :)
2020-05-17 03:16:06	styan	It is probably Zig trying to not call things through libc, and failing.
2020-05-17 03:16:18	xq	try
2020-05-17 03:16:25	xq	zig build -Dtarget=native-native
2020-05-17 03:17:31	styan	It fails in the same way.
2020-05-17 03:17:55	styan	It probably does not like CURRENT, and only *really* supports releases.
2020-05-17 03:18:13	xq	yeah probably
2020-05-17 03:18:21	styan	Or supports specifically an older CURRENT.
2020-05-17 03:18:35	xq	i think we have no freebsd users in the community and it's only tested in CI
2020-05-17 03:19:38	styan	Personally, I wanted to like Zig, but so many parts of it rub me the wrong way.
2020-05-17 03:20:15	xq	huh? tell me
2020-05-17 03:20:37	xq	i'm quite in love with the language already
2020-05-17 03:21:07	styan	Well, things like this for one.  Doing so many things for two.  And it is quite an opinionated language for three.
2020-05-17 03:22:23	xq	wdym by "for two"?
2020-05-17 03:22:58	styan	Oh, and being so tied to LLVM.  Compiling LLVM to update FreeBSD makes me not like it (it takes forever). :-)
2020-05-17 03:23:11	xq	ah
2020-05-17 03:23:26	xq	the LLVM binding is just released ;)
2020-05-17 03:23:27	styan	It is just post-hoc making it a numbered list.
2020-05-17 03:23:34	xq	ah, got it now
2020-05-17 03:23:40	xq	andrew is currently working on self-hosted, llvm-free compiler
2020-05-17 03:24:08	styan	I saw that the self-hosted one will support tabs!
2020-05-17 03:24:16	xq	^^
2020-05-17 03:24:23	xq	yeah, 1.0 will remove that restriction
2020-05-17 03:24:24	xq	everything is still quite early in development, but it already has a better-working cross-dev environment than anything before
2020-05-17 03:24:32	xq	you know what the restriction is there?
2020-05-17 03:25:46	styan	Something about the current compiler only being meant to bootstrap the self-hosted one?
2020-05-17 03:26:27	xq	yep
2020-05-17 03:26:33	makeworld	Anyone else not able to access gemini://rawtext.club:1965/~sloum/geminilist/
2020-05-17 03:26:38	xq	llvm will be an optional module
2020-05-17 03:26:46	xq	makeworld: doesn't have port 1965 open
2020-05-17 03:26:53	xq	nc doesn't connect :D
2020-05-17 03:26:53	makeworld	Huh
2020-05-17 03:27:15	xq	styan: what do you mean by opinionated?
2020-05-17 03:27:16	styan	makeworld: Connection refused
2020-05-17 03:27:25	makeworld	Thanks
2020-05-17 03:27:45	⚡	xq is a bit sorry for stealing a ML thread :D
2020-05-17 03:27:59	xq	but also: how dare is he to steal my mail topic i was just typing!
2020-05-17 03:29:18	styan	xq: From the "zen of zig": "Only one obvious way to do things" and "Minimize energy spent on coding style"
2020-05-17 03:29:52	xq	ah yeah
2020-05-17 03:29:58	xq	last thing is quite true actually
2020-05-17 03:30:07	xq	i just don't care about formatting, zig fmt does that for me
2020-05-17 03:30:14	styan	Though, you should know I compair everything to concatnative languages. :-)
2020-05-17 03:30:26	styan	Any syntax is more opinionated than no syntax.
2020-05-17 03:30:34	xq	well
2020-05-17 03:30:52	xq	zig zen is a guideline for discussions and language design
2020-05-17 03:31:00	xq	and i think it's a quite good guideline
2020-05-17 03:31:14	xq	the "one obvious way" is not meant in: "they way is obvious for every programmer"
2020-05-17 03:31:40	xq	but "if you know the language and want to do X, it should be immediatly clear how to do X and everybody should get roughly to the same solution"
2020-05-17 03:31:58	xq	and this was one thing that actually surprised me how well it is achieved
2020-05-17 03:32:30	xq	also: shit. i just looked at the clock
2020-05-17 03:32:34	xq	5:30 am
2020-05-17 03:32:39	xq	this is waaaaay past sleeping time
2020-05-17 03:33:10	styan	I have not spent much time with zig, between iffy BSD support and having to preprocess source files for tabs, I quickly stopped
2020-05-17 03:33:13	styan	Maybe it gets better.
2020-05-17 03:33:59	styan	nvi(1) can not auto-expanding tabs. (at least until OpenBSD patches it)
2020-05-17 03:34:23	styan	s/expanding/expand/
2020-05-17 03:35:05	xq	you can also just zig fmt your file, minimize time spent on coding style and it will auto-remove and replace all tabs for you :)
2020-05-17 03:35:25	xq	but yeah, that BSD support is not good yet is sad
2020-05-17 03:35:32	styan	But a program modifying my source files automatically...
2020-05-17 03:35:47	xq	yeah, that's something you can get used to
2020-05-17 03:35:48	styan	I am a bit of a control freak about my computer.
2020-05-17 03:35:50	xq	i do that every safe
2020-05-17 03:35:58	xq	i even just use it to fix indentation
2020-05-17 03:36:00	styan	I do not like it doing anything automatically.
2020-05-17 03:36:20	xq	i've started to use code formatters with zig
2020-05-17 03:36:37	xq	the thing is: the formatter only formats valid source files and uses the same parser as the compiler
2020-05-17 03:36:58	xq	so if your file compiles, the formatter will definitly not fuck up your code
2020-05-17 03:37:09	xq	i've seen worse (clang-format)
2020-05-17 03:37:12	styan	The fact that Zig comes with a build system, code formatter, C transpiler, C compiler, etc. is also something that rubs me the wrong way. :-)
2020-05-17 03:37:26	xq	which fucks up your files royally
2020-05-17 03:37:32	styan	It is not that I think it will mess it up, I just do not like it.
2020-05-17 03:37:36	xq	ah
2020-05-17 03:37:37	xq	:D
2020-05-17 03:37:50	xq	zig comes with libclang for header import, so it's not that hard to just export clang_main :D
2020-05-17 03:37:52	⚡	styan is a control freak
2020-05-17 03:37:56	xq	i see
2020-05-17 03:38:20	xq	and i really should go to bed, would love to continue a discussion about pros and especially (non-personal) cons for zig
2020-05-17 03:38:30	xq	so we can improve that stuff!
2020-05-17 03:38:37	makeworld	This gurl thing is gonna get confusing :)
2020-05-17 03:38:40	xq	gn8 (or whatever is appropriate at your place)
2020-05-17 03:38:46	xq	makeworld: yeah *rofl*
2020-05-17 03:38:54	makeworld	If you haven't seen the mailing list, there's now two tools that do the same thing, with the same name
2020-05-17 03:38:56	makeworld	Lolol
2020-05-17 03:38:56	xq	but i could not resist to hijack this thread
2020-05-17 03:39:35	styan	xq: I would like that.  As I said, I *wanted* to like zig, so you have a good starting spot.
2020-05-17 03:42:50	styan	xq: Maybe you could make a #zig channel, if more people are interesting in talking about it?
2020-05-17 03:43:16		xq has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-17 03:44:14	makeworld	julienxx: Could you post the castor settings file you use for the screenshots in the README?
2020-05-17 03:44:33	makeworld	It looks so good and it's annoying not to have it :)
2020-05-17 03:44:51	makeworld	Maybe you could put it in the repo along with that flowery one
2020-05-17 03:44:59	styan	Sorry for filling #gemini with ziglang talk, I hope it was not obnoxious.
2020-05-17 03:50:38	makeworld	No worries
2020-05-17 03:53:27	makeworld	Is anyone here opposed to me putting chat logs on gemini?
2020-05-17 03:53:54	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: ^^
2020-05-17 03:56:07	~tiwesdaeg	Go for it
2020-05-17 03:56:28	makeworld	Thanks!
2020-05-17 04:10:09	styan	makeworld: I wonder, does your name come from FreeBSD?
2020-05-17 04:10:48	makeworld	Haha no, I've never even used FreeBSD. Remind me again why it makes you think that? I think I've heard someone say that before
2020-05-17 04:11:33	styan	Because part of building FreeBSD is `make world'
2020-05-17 04:14:21	styan	makeworld: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/makeworld.html
2020-05-17 04:15:04	styan	Look, there is your name in the URL!  :-)
2020-05-17 04:15:09	makeworld	Aha, that's cool
2020-05-17 04:15:26	makeworld	I try to keep with the world theme I guess, my laptop's hostname is earth
2020-05-17 04:15:30	makeworld	And my server's is jupiter
2020-05-17 04:17:41	styan	That is neat.  My laptop's hostname is localhost, because at some point Firefox was sending my hostname to DNS to try and find an X server.
2020-05-17 04:18:04	styan	Now that I think of it, I could have just added my hostname to /etc/hosts.
2020-05-17 04:32:40	makeworld	Test
2020-05-17 04:32:51	makeworld	Aha, IRC logs work!
2020-05-17 04:33:01	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/cgi-bin/gemini-irc
2020-05-17 04:34:33	styan	Are they suppose to be backwards?
2020-05-17 04:35:28	styan	They switched around.
2020-05-17 04:35:43	styan	Oh, a comment.
2020-05-17 04:36:15	makeworld	Yeah I originally made it in reverse order so you wouldn't have to scroll to the bottom
2020-05-17 04:36:22	makeworld	But that's crazy hard to read
2020-05-17 04:37:28	styan	Appending is probably faster too, on most file-systems.
2020-05-17 04:37:58	makeworld	Yeah well the original file is appended. I just was just was using `tac` to reverse it in a shell script
2020-05-17 04:38:08	makeworld	Now I'm just using `tail -n 100`
2020-05-17 04:38:56	styan	Huh, tac(1), another weird GNU utility that I did not know exists.
2020-05-17 04:39:41	styan	I am going to write a portable one in awk(1).
2020-05-17 04:46:16	makeworld	Yeah it was weird to find out it exists, but sometimes it's exactly what you need
2020-05-17 04:46:46	makeworld	My server is up finally: gemini://makeworld.gq
2020-05-17 04:57:53	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Your site is... interesting lol
2020-05-17 04:57:55	makeworld	I love it
2020-05-17 04:59:30	login	nice
2020-05-17 04:59:43	login	how to browse gemini over tor?
2020-05-17 05:02:33	styan	SOCKS/transparent proxy?
2020-05-17 05:16:18	styan	makeworld: https://tildegit.org/styan/tac
2020-05-17 05:21:48	makeworld	Scary stuff
2020-05-17 05:21:55	makeworld	Good job I guess haha
2020-05-17 05:25:17	styan	Oh, nl(1) is POSIX: cat -- file ... | nl -ba | sort -rn | sed 's/[[:blank:]]*[0-9][0-9]*[[:blank:]]//'
2020-05-17 05:30:55	styan	makeworld: Oh, if that is scary did you miss that I wrote a Gemini client in AWK?  :-)
2020-05-17 07:03:21	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 08:05:16	▬▬▶	kaoD has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 08:05:23	kaoD	hi!
2020-05-17 08:06:17	styan	Hello!
2020-05-17 08:08:49	quinnj	login: try launching whatever client you're using with torsocks(1)
2020-05-17 08:09:24	admicos	\o
2020-05-17 08:09:53	quinnj	also hi
2020-05-17 08:41:10	@julienxx	Hello
2020-05-17 08:43:45	@julienxx	makeworld: it’s my GTK theme, not Castor settings. I can upload it if you want
2020-05-17 08:44:25	@julienxx	tomasino: I’ll update the fence parsing, I love the proposal with art/code...
2020-05-17 08:58:31	jan6	btw @ the spec ambiguity mentioned in the list, /me fully supports allowing of either \n OR \r\n endings, just throwing that out here, despite spec-craftin' punk's not here
2020-05-17 09:19:12	styan	jan6: Considering the '\r' is optional on gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ itself, I think that is a good decision :-)
2020-05-17 10:10:47	@julienxx	tomasino: pushed 0.8.7 to allow for simpler fence matching
2020-05-17 10:13:47	@julienxx	added ```art and ```description to gemini://typed-hole.org front page to test, I think I really like this idea.
2020-05-17 10:41:44	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 10:57:28	xq	hey
2020-05-17 11:02:41	jan6	yeh
2020-05-17 11:03:00	⚡	jan6 wants a server but has nothing to put on said server
2020-05-17 11:03:11	jan6	classic jan6 problem
2020-05-17 11:03:46	jan6	I could make cool pages, but I have nothing to put into the cool pages...
2020-05-17 11:04:00	xq	hey jan6
2020-05-17 11:04:55	jan6	ahoy
2020-05-17 11:08:07	@tomasino	Awesome, I'll download the latest build and start using the fencing hints on black
2020-05-17 11:14:12	cmccabe	gemini://neat-bash-tricks-by-jan6.xyz
2020-05-17 11:23:17	@tomasino	would be a thing
2020-05-17 11:23:23	@tomasino	people would read it and get value
2020-05-17 11:24:02	@tomasino	my code fencing in fox's gemspace now have the art/desc stuff too
2020-05-17 11:24:29	@tomasino	and thanks to makeworld for getting a gemini irc backlog generating
2020-05-17 11:34:16	@tomasino	new client update works great julienxx !
2020-05-17 11:40:02	@julienxx	Cool, I also made a small change to prefer ipv4 for connection given the choice, it has resolved issues connecting to some servers for me. Let me know if you have more connection errors than before.
2020-05-17 11:41:41	xq	julienxx: do you try all IPs from the DNS resolving
2020-05-17 11:43:50	@julienxx	Not really, so far I only encountered one ipv4 and one ipv6 for a given domain at most
2020-05-17 11:44:13	@tomasino	what is the symbol for lists?
2020-05-17 11:44:16	@tomasino	i thought it was -
2020-05-17 11:44:17	@julienxx	If there are several the first one will be used
2020-05-17 11:44:54	@tomasino	i have some list entries in my latest article, but castor isn't changing their prefix for me when i tweak the settings
2020-05-17 11:44:58	@julienxx	tomasino: It’s star
2020-05-17 11:45:01	@tomasino	ahh
2020-05-17 11:45:02	@tomasino	okay
2020-05-17 11:45:05	@tomasino	lemme fix!
2020-05-17 11:45:26	@julienxx	Great article by the way!
2020-05-17 11:46:34	@tomasino	thank you!
2020-05-17 11:46:45	@tomasino	it will never be mirrored to my other protocol sites
2020-05-17 11:46:50	@tomasino	unique gemini stuffs!
2020-05-17 11:49:41	jan6	heh
2020-05-17 11:49:59	jan6	why not have a secret password protected mirror on other protocols?
2020-05-17 11:50:34	@tomasino	the goal is to add unique content to gemini to increase its value
2020-05-17 11:50:39	@tomasino	any cross-posting lowers that
2020-05-17 11:50:46	jan6	like view gemini page to see the password is "geminirocks1965" and then go to http://gemini.yoursite/geminirocks1965/awesome-article-here
2020-05-17 11:51:06	@tomasino	that made it hard for me to figure out what to put on gemini in the  first place, since i just put whatever i want on gopher
2020-05-17 12:06:12	jan6	put half article on gemini, half on gopher ;P
2020-05-17 12:06:21	jan6	cut it up at the most interesting part ;P
2020-05-17 12:06:37	@tomasino	tell jokes on gopher but the punchlines are all on gemini
2020-05-17 12:06:41	@tomasino	riddles too!
2020-05-17 12:10:20	jan6	lol
2020-05-17 12:19:58	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 12:34:17	@julienxx	https://git.sr.ht/~ft/gemnine anybody uses plan9?
2020-05-17 12:36:21	~tiwesdaeg	I thought about the idea of a plan9 tilde once
2020-05-17 12:36:31	~tiwesdaeg	even got as far as installing it on a vps
2020-05-17 12:36:49	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 12:37:29	jan6	why're you stop?
2020-05-17 12:40:35	@tomasino	There's been desire for a plan9 tilde for years
2020-05-17 12:40:50	@tomasino	If you have the know how to make it happen you'll be quite popular
2020-05-17 12:54:24	jan6	*why'd you stop, still?
2020-05-17 12:54:37	jan6	who cares if you KNOW how to do stuff, you'll learn!
2020-05-17 12:54:41	xq	was the topic of "data uploads" via gemini discussed on the mailing list already?
2020-05-17 12:55:13	jan6	hm, check the archives? I've not been on for long and it's not been discussed in the last few days
2020-05-17 12:57:38	xq	well, i just asked on the ML :D
2020-05-17 12:57:45	xq	had another question regarding line endings as well
2020-05-17 13:15:24	jan6	guess who replied ;P
2020-05-17 13:16:05	xq	heh
2020-05-17 13:16:16	xq	yeah i know the reasons ;)
2020-05-17 13:16:29	xq	my question was more why the spec says <CR><LF>
2020-05-17 13:23:14	@tomasino	i believe solderpunk mentioned last night in his responses that he'd be addressing this to make it <LF> only as optional, but not until the spec unfreezes
2020-05-17 13:23:23	@tomasino	it was discussed, but never written down
2020-05-17 13:23:51	@tomasino	regarding uploads, that was an early discussion and i think there were some pretty heavy feelings on the subject, but i don't recall the reasoning
2020-05-17 13:23:55	@tomasino	i'm sure someone will chime in
2020-05-17 13:32:07	~tiwesdaeg	eh, plan9 was just so foreign to me
2020-05-17 13:33:05	~tiwesdaeg	just attempting to use the text editor acme, felt like trying to read a chinese translation of harry potter
2020-05-17 13:33:31	~tiwesdaeg	I did get the gopher client installed
2020-05-17 13:34:04	~tiwesdaeg	I'm trying to catch up on the mailing list
2020-05-17 13:34:28	~tiwesdaeg	I was so distracted last night upgrading pink to netbsd 9.0
2020-05-17 13:35:50	@tomasino	yeah, i'm still playing around with crap and i have a bunch of work to do today
2020-05-17 13:36:17	~tiwesdaeg	I've already been assigned three different tasks by my wife
2020-05-17 13:38:10	~tiwesdaeg	also, jan6, what is tilde.ninja?
2020-05-17 13:39:01	jan6	tilde.team's alias
2020-05-17 13:39:04	jan6	the coolest one ;P
2020-05-17 13:39:12	jan6	also tilde.pizza and fuckup.club
2020-05-17 13:40:03	jan6	unlike some, it's a full alias so you can use https://jan6.tilde.ninja/banner.jpg and whatnot
2020-05-17 13:40:12	jan6	instead of tilde.team
2020-05-17 13:40:55	~tiwesdaeg	ahhh
2020-05-17 13:41:27	~tiwesdaeg	also, http://9front.org/
2020-05-17 13:41:43	~tiwesdaeg	that's what I installed on a vps
2020-05-17 13:41:57	~tiwesdaeg	they're keeping plan9 alive
2020-05-17 13:46:39	xq	tiwesdaeg: i tried ACME and it's really alien
2020-05-17 13:46:49	xq	but the ideas are great and using it is quite a joy
2020-05-17 13:47:04	@tomasino	the company that makes holes?
2020-05-17 13:47:43	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ1ygyUQZik
2020-05-17 13:51:24	xq	tomasino: ACME is the Editor of Plan9
2020-05-17 13:51:39	@tomasino	oooh, fun
2020-05-17 13:51:51	@tomasino	i'll learn about these things when the plan9 tilde launches
2020-05-17 13:51:52	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-17 13:57:09	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 13:58:06	jan6	ACME is A Company that Makes Everything
2020-05-17 13:58:09	jan6	including holes
2020-05-17 14:03:01	xq	yeah, true as well :D
2020-05-17 14:21:19	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-05-17 14:21:31	~tiwesdaeg	will it ever launch?
2020-05-17 14:21:45	~tiwesdaeg	also 9term is interesting
2020-05-17 14:22:18	~tiwesdaeg	the remote interface for plan9 is gui from the get go
2020-05-17 14:25:25	@julienxx	Okay trying to setup a shared 9front instance for fun, let's see how it goes
2020-05-17 14:26:03	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: I've already forgotten all the hurdles
2020-05-17 14:26:09	~tiwesdaeg	I just remember pain
2020-05-17 14:27:03	@julienxx	hahaha just an experiment for now and as any experiment I expect total failure
2020-05-17 14:31:20	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 14:36:58	~tiwesdaeg	that's how mine went
2020-05-17 14:37:15	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, I had it running, but administering it?
2020-05-17 14:49:54	~tiwesdaeg	woo, we are currently the 9th largest channel on tilde.chat
2020-05-17 15:01:51	@tomasino	oh yeah?
2020-05-17 15:01:51	@tomasino	nice
2020-05-17 15:14:01	jan6	noice
2020-05-17 15:15:33	login	noce
2020-05-17 15:34:21		tiwesdaeg has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-17 15:43:42	quinnj	i wrote a little emacs major mode for text/gemini documents
2020-05-17 15:43:57	quinnj	and i have to say, my relationship with emacs has only worsened
2020-05-17 15:45:44	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 15:45:44	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-05-17 16:19:35		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-17 16:22:46	makeworld	julienxx: Re: castor theme: I didn't realize it was your GTK theme, huh. I'd appreciate getting a castor settings file for it anyway, but only if you can no worries. I think I should be able to do it myself if I use a colour picker on the screenshot
2020-05-17 16:27:17	@julienxx	makeworld: here is my gtk config https://juliensharing.s3.amazonaws.com/gtk_irix_theme.zip
2020-05-17 16:27:27	@julienxx	it should be enough
2020-05-17 16:30:40	makeworld	Thanks, I'll check it out!
2020-05-17 17:02:53		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-17 18:13:58	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 18:18:42	sloum	quit
2020-05-17 18:18:44		sloum has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-17 18:25:53	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-05-17 18:33:20	quinnj	i finished setting up my webbed sight, if anyone wants to look at an empty website gemini://hckrenbywyjcqxbhhsfel5md7uwmdtggcmxsp4u35xwudlw2ybpg3qyd.onion.to/
2020-05-17 18:44:41	jan6	hehe
2020-05-17 18:44:55	jan6	is that the first gemini site on tor?
2020-05-17 18:46:15	login	quinnj: how to make ff support tor?
2020-05-17 18:46:23	login	w/o torsocks
2020-05-17 18:46:28	jan6	you don't
2020-05-17 18:46:41	jan6	your only way is to use torsocks, or similar, to make a socks proxy
2020-05-17 18:46:49	jan6	otherwise just use the tor browser
2020-05-17 18:46:52	login	also, how 2 make a hidden service with a locked router
2020-05-17 18:46:53	jan6	which is pretty much firefox
2020-05-17 18:46:54	~tiwesdaeg	I had tilde.pink gopherd running on tor a while back
2020-05-17 18:47:15	jan6	also don't be stupid and search it yourself
2020-05-17 18:47:23	login	tor browser supports no gemini
2020-05-17 18:47:27	jan6	locked router means you can't do it from home
2020-05-17 18:47:37	jan6	neither does firefox, login
2020-05-17 18:47:57	login	no search, dont call names regardless of truth/opinion
2020-05-17 18:48:02	jan6	unless there's another ff you didn't bother to explain
2020-05-17 18:48:27	jan6	I only warned to not BE, I didn't call YOU stupid ;P
2020-05-17 18:48:43	login	no search will help with locked router
2020-05-17 18:48:55	jan6	if it doesn't, neither can anyone here
2020-05-17 18:48:59	jan6	simple
2020-05-17 18:49:04	login	well
2020-05-17 18:49:11	jan6	you can always forward to some other server
2020-05-17 18:49:19	jan6	ssh -R port redirect is a thing
2020-05-17 18:49:23	login	there is a port upnp function
2020-05-17 18:49:30	jan6	but at that point, why not host directly on that server
2020-05-17 18:49:37	jan6	so? just use that?
2020-05-17 18:49:37	login	but it doesnt do anythibg
2020-05-17 18:49:45	jan6	if it's a function, it does something
2020-05-17 18:49:56	jan6	if it's enabled, that is
2020-05-17 18:50:00	login	any way to use a port on another server but hqve it e2e?
2020-05-17 18:50:08	jan6	ssh
2020-05-17 18:50:16	login	i.e. server cant read the mag at all
2020-05-17 18:50:28	jan6	if server can't read it, how can the client?
2020-05-17 18:50:41	login	client decrypts
2020-05-17 18:50:53	jan6	but how do you make it decryptable by client, but not server?
2020-05-17 18:51:16	login	exactly, cant be done
2020-05-17 18:51:35	jan6	it can if you have pre-shared secrets, but otherwise of course not
2020-05-17 18:51:45	login	anyway, will you work for Bolt?
2020-05-17 18:51:54	jan6	you are as always, asking ridiculous theoretical quastions you alreayd know the answer of
2020-05-17 18:52:02	jan6	only if they ask me to
2020-05-17 18:53:05	login	can you solve
2020-05-17 18:53:22	jan6	what
2020-05-17 18:53:47	jan6	also this isn't the channel for completely unrelated chat
2020-05-17 18:55:23	⚡	tiwesdaeg slaps jan6
2020-05-17 18:55:26	~tiwesdaeg	be nice
2020-05-17 18:56:22	⚡	jan6 slaps tiwesdaeg back
2020-05-17 18:56:26	jan6	I am
2020-05-17 19:01:20	login	 https://codingcompetitions.withgoogle.com/kickstart/round/000000000019ff43/
2020-05-17 19:01:39	login	solve these 4 ^ especially 1 and 2
2020-05-17 19:15:35	@tomasino	Gotta double check black
2020-05-17 19:15:49	@tomasino	I may have enabled 1965 for tor
2020-05-17 19:16:02	login	1965 port?
2020-05-17 19:16:13	@tomasino	Yep
2020-05-17 19:16:18	login	1984 would be a cooler port
2020-05-17 19:16:31	@tomasino	But that wouldn't be for Gemini
2020-05-17 19:16:33	login	tor invented in 1965?
2020-05-17 19:16:39	login	*gemini
2020-05-17 19:32:10	xq	sloum will be happy if he hears what i do in gurl :D Asking the user for permissions when creating config directories and such instead of just silently doing it
2020-05-17 19:32:50	@tomasino	1965 is enabled on black via tor
2020-05-17 19:32:57	@tomasino	Has anyone tried it?
2020-05-17 20:10:16	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 20:28:25	xq	tomasino, i don't have a tor node running
2020-05-17 20:29:49	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 20:36:06	cmccabe	i tried with bombadillo over torsocks and got connection refused
2020-05-17 21:57:18	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-05-17 21:59:56		plugd has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-17 22:28:31	@tomasino	poop
2020-05-17 22:28:52	@tomasino	i dunno if there's anything weird about the handshakey bits or if it's just a config in tor being wrong
2020-05-17 23:03:56	styan	tomasino: I can connect but "This server does not allow proxy requests" for the onion address.
2020-05-17 23:06:33	styan	Connecting manually and typing "gemini://tilde.black/\r\n" works.
2020-05-17 23:23:05	@tomasino	hmm
2020-05-17 23:23:23	@tomasino	HiddenServicePort 1965 127.0.0.1:1965
2020-05-17 23:23:32	@tomasino	maybe i need to point it at the domain instead of 127...
2020-05-17 23:23:52	styan	That response was from jetforce
2020-05-17 23:25:33	styan	It has the same response for localhost and 127.0.0.1.
2020-05-17 23:26:15		kaoD has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-17 23:27:42	styan	``printf 'gemini://localhost/\r\n' | nc -c -T noverify -T noname localhost 1965'' -> "53      This server does not allow proxy requests"
2020-05-17 23:29:03	xq	conman is really pushing my project without even knowing :D
2020-05-17 23:29:10	⚡	xq now has TOFU implemented in gurl
2020-05-17 23:29:23	@tomasino	okay, lemme try this...
2020-05-17 23:29:26	⚡	xq also sent a bug report to the maintainer of BearSSL as i found undefined behaviour in the library
2020-05-17 23:29:58	@tomasino	any luck now, styan? i tried it by name
2020-05-17 23:32:30		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-17 23:43:08	@tomasino	so what aggregators are people using?
2020-05-17 23:44:28	styan	tomasino: Nope.  This setting might help: https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/blob/master/jetforce.py#L158
2020-05-18 00:30:05	epoch	how should I setup gemini behind an onion? I can't get a valid cert
2020-05-18 00:31:23	styan	epoch: Self-signed certificate, or just rely on Tor's encryption?
2020-05-18 00:31:53	epoch	I probably need to look into how plaintext gemini is supposed to work.
2020-05-18 00:32:41	styan	Most clients probably accept self-signed certificates.
2020-05-18 00:33:18	epoch	would be neat if letsencrypt could sign onions
2020-05-18 00:35:09	styan	I know tilde.black uses a self-signed certificate.
2020-05-18 00:36:17	styan	(for gemini)
2020-05-18 00:37:29	epoch	would be neat if I could set a DNS record for the domains listed in my clear-net certs that also says "and we also host this onion service we want any certificate pointing at us to be valid for"
2020-05-18 00:38:08	epoch	like, onion.thebackupbox.net CNAME fgc2df7jssqt7adacvhinvwdjmn4gwfp6fqxczxunw4qtb37554yexyd.onion
2020-05-18 00:38:21	epoch	which would make any certs that are valid for thebackupbox.net also valid for the CNAME'd onion
2020-05-18 00:38:49	epoch	but I don't think browsers would want to support something like that
2020-05-18 00:38:56	epoch	or ssl libraries?
2020-05-18 00:39:06	styan	Though you probably do not even need TLS for onion addresses.
2020-05-18 00:39:17	epoch	I know.
2020-05-18 00:39:24	epoch	but is there a plaintext version of gemini?
2020-05-18 00:40:22	styan	Not really, no.
2020-05-18 00:40:56	epoch	then I do need TLS for an onion if I'm serving gemini
2020-05-18 00:42:08	epoch	yer, "Use of TLS for Gemini transactions is mandatory."
2020-05-18 00:44:05	epoch	for some reason gemini://hckrenbywyjcqxbhhsfel5md7uwmdtggcmxsp4u35xwudlw2ybpg3qyd.onion/ isn't working in castor
2020-05-18 00:45:40	styan	Are you using torsocks(1) or some other proxying?
2020-05-18 00:46:14	epoch	os error 22
2020-05-18 00:46:22	epoch	transparent proxy I'm pretty sure...
2020-05-18 00:46:23	styan	It works with my clients using torsocks(1), if that helps.
2020-05-18 00:47:25	epoch	it might just be my setup is borked
2020-05-18 00:49:04	epoch	openssl s_client is connecting and getting the certs...
2020-05-18 00:50:10	epoch	and the exact same request works on my server when not going over tor..
2020-05-18 00:55:53	styan	Using `openssl s_client' with torsocks(1) works here, if a bit noisy.
2020-05-18 00:57:02	epoch	for some reason firefox with no proxy settings can load the https site on the same onion
2020-05-18 00:57:07	styan	Are you remembering to type the carriage-return before the line-feed?  You server does not accept just the line-feed.
2020-05-18 00:58:49	epoch	yeah
2020-05-18 01:01:28	styan	Here is what I did: https://paste.tildeverse.org/?87d1df28d947fd47#FtpwxNzqzzJE615mVBuRqojtHvk5rcBPRriULnZNkk7L
2020-05-18 01:04:37	⚡	epoch sets up torsocks
2020-05-18 01:07:15	epoch	works both with and without torsocks
2020-05-18 01:07:22	epoch	on other servers
2020-05-18 01:07:27	epoch	mine is just not working for some reason
2020-05-18 01:07:40	styan	Oh, try `-noct'
2020-05-18 01:08:13	styan	Maybe that is not the default on your version of OpenSSL.
2020-05-18 01:08:27	styan	It fails if I set `-ct'
2020-05-18 01:11:41	epoch	the crap I have doing the ssl server part is probably borkedish
2020-05-18 01:11:48	epoch	maybe my certs just expired or something
2020-05-18 01:12:12	styan	Oh, nevermind, I just figured out how to navigate github's blame UI.  `-noct' has existed, and been the default, for 4 years.
2020-05-18 01:12:42	epoch	expire Jun 20th
2020-05-18 01:13:21	styan	The version of openssl I tested with was "OpenSSL 1.1.1g", if that helps.
2020-05-18 01:13:22	epoch	right now I'm using socat to do the ssl for both my https and gemini
2020-05-18 01:13:27	epoch	so it is probably something wrong with it
2020-05-18 01:13:28	epoch	socat openssl-listen:1965,certificate=/etc/letsencrypt/https.crt,key=/etc/letsencrypt/keys/https.key.pem,verify=0,fork,reuseaddr exec:/service/gemini/gemini.sh
2020-05-18 01:14:08	epoch	and they're both connecting, sending the server cert, and then disconnecting before any data
2020-05-18 01:22:30	epoch	weird that it randomly stopped working
2020-05-18 01:23:24	styan	Weirder that it works for me here.
2020-05-18 01:23:48	epoch	the socat line as server?
2020-05-18 01:24:05	styan	No, reading from your server.
2020-05-18 01:24:09	styan	I have zero issues.
2020-05-18 01:24:13	epoch	wait. wat?
2020-05-18 01:24:20	epoch	the maybe the bug exists on my desktop
2020-05-18 01:24:48	styan	Yeah, did you see the pastebin?  I got your index.gmi.
2020-05-18 01:25:48	epoch	nah, the hck one is somebody else's
2020-05-18 01:26:00	epoch	mine is the one that starts with f
2020-05-18 01:26:06	epoch	fgc2d...
2020-05-18 01:26:07	styan	Oh
2020-05-18 01:26:14	epoch	fgc2df7jssqt7adacvhinvwdjmn4gwfp6fqxczxunw4qtb37554yexyd.onion
2020-05-18 01:26:22	epoch	gemini://fgc2df7jssqt7adacvhinvwdjmn4gwfp6fqxczxunw4qtb37554yexyd.onion/
2020-05-18 01:26:54	epoch	tested client running on another computer
2020-05-18 01:27:06	epoch	it is a server-side bug most likely
2020-05-18 01:27:08	styan	Does your page start with "wtf"?
2020-05-18 01:27:13	epoch	yeah
2020-05-18 01:27:15	epoch	wtf?
2020-05-18 01:27:48	⚡	epoch gets rid of the wtf
2020-05-18 01:28:14	styan	"GMI? Genetically Modified... Internet?"
2020-05-18 01:28:26	epoch	heh. yer that's my gemini site.
2020-05-18 01:28:53	styan	The "wtf?' is lower new.
2020-05-18 01:28:58	styan	s/new/now/
2020-05-18 01:29:11	epoch	I took out the "echo wtf" that was at the very start so it'd be a valid text/gemini
2020-05-18 01:29:20	epoch	hrm. valid gemini protocol*?
2020-05-18 01:29:32	epoch	since the 20 mime/type isn't text/gemini
2020-05-18 01:31:08	epoch	:/ weird shit
2020-05-18 01:31:48	styan	Here is what I get: https://bhh.sh/5u6
2020-05-18 01:34:30	epoch	copy-pasted that and it works. wtf is different? :/
2020-05-18 01:34:55	styan	What were you doing before?
2020-05-18 01:36:26	epoch	... for some reason adding -quiet makes it work
2020-05-18 01:37:20	styan	Strange.
2020-05-18 01:38:51	epoch	https://paste.tildeverse.org/?c3b821fa95d1c26f#8p2DYYj8HjGj2ZxDvk5mHT8GVd5VGio3tqKydXevXBYA
2020-05-18 01:38:53	styan	Okay, `-quiet' implies `-ign_eof'
2020-05-18 01:39:03	styan	And *that* makes it work
2020-05-18 01:40:03	epoch	that's ignoring the eof on stdin?
2020-05-18 01:40:13	⚡	epoch checks man page
2020-05-18 01:40:19	styan	It works without if you type it in, but `-ign_eof' prevents it from closing early after printf(1) finishes.
2020-05-18 01:40:32	epoch	yeah
2020-05-18 01:40:38	epoch	it ignores stdin's eof
2020-05-18 01:40:41	epoch	well shit
2020-05-18 01:41:04	styan	Anticlimactic.
2020-05-18 01:41:48	styan	Like most computer problems.
2020-05-18 01:43:14	⚡	epoch tells other nerds in the fediverse
2020-05-18 01:44:48	styan	If you want further confusion you can try to `printf \\016' in a terminal after you use something that uses ncurses (like vi(1))...
2020-05-18 01:56:16	epoch	is that the code that changes character sets?
2020-05-18 01:56:28	epoch	I think ^O does something like that too
2020-05-18 01:56:42	epoch	I don't remember exactly what ^N is
2020-05-18 01:56:57	styan	Yes.
2020-05-18 01:57:20	styan	^O fixes ^N
2020-05-18 01:59:41	styan	I found out about those the other week echoing unescaped characters back to myself to test percent-encoding/decoding.
2020-05-18 02:01:16	epoch	digicert will do onion certs
2020-05-18 02:03:42	epoch	wonder what would happen if I got a cert signed for onion.my.domain, then set the CNAME to the real onion, then pointed a client at onion.my.domain
2020-05-18 02:04:44	epoch	I guess I could just CNAME one of the subdomains I already have in the cert to the onion
2020-05-18 02:12:40	epoch	seems like it goes through tor to my hidden service and has a valid cert, but requires using a clear-net hostname
2020-05-18 02:47:56	styan	epoch: I managed to build castor and tried your site with torsocks(1), and it worked.
2020-05-18 02:48:36	styan	Though Castor stops redrawing itself when it is connecting.
2020-05-18 02:57:05	⚡	epoch git pull ; make in castor
2020-05-18 02:59:03	epoch	merp. yeah, it works with torsocks, but not with a transparent proxy
2020-05-18 02:59:49	epoch	Could not connect to fgc2df7jssqt7adacvhinvwdjmn4gwfp6fqxczxunw4qtb37554yexyd.onioninvalid argument (os error 22)
2020-05-18 02:59:52	epoch	bah
2020-05-18 03:00:18	epoch	"Could not connect to fgc2df7jssqt7adacvhinvwdjmn4gwfp6fqxczxunw4qtb37554yexyd.onion:1965 invalid argument (os error 22)"
2020-05-18 03:00:42	styan	Getting onion addresses working with a transparent proxy is something that I was never able to figure out entirely.
2020-05-18 03:01:09	epoch	my transparent proxy works for most things, just not castor atm
2020-05-18 03:01:19	styan	Strange.
2020-05-18 03:01:57	styan	In other news, I build castor, and it was painful.
2020-05-18 03:02:39	styan	My version of LibreSSL is too new for it, the package it was using added support on May 9th, while the latest release is May 7th.
2020-05-18 03:04:23	styan	Even with OPENSSL_DIR and OPENSSL_LIB_DIR set, the final linking command kept trying to link LibreSSL with Castor.
2020-05-18 03:04:44	styan	So I copied the command it spit out and manually edited it.
2020-05-18 03:07:11	epoch	it is probably trying to do IPv6 transparent proxy
2020-05-18 03:07:20	epoch	which might not be setup right
2020-05-18 03:08:31	epoch	oh. it works now.
2020-05-18 03:08:44	epoch	I think I forgot a make install
2020-05-18 03:08:52	epoch	after pulling the newest version
2020-05-18 03:32:00	⚡	epoch AFKs
2020-05-18 04:03:19		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-18 04:03:22	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-05-18 05:33:51	makeworld	I got some server stats up!
2020-05-18 05:33:58	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/cgi-bin/stats
2020-05-18 05:34:09	makeworld	Does anyone know of any other servers that have stats?
2020-05-18 05:34:32	makeworld	Not just checking if I'm the first lol, I'm wondering if there's more I can add
2020-05-18 05:48:39	makeworld	julienxx: Version 0.8.7 of Castor crashes when I click bookmarks
2020-05-18 05:51:33	styan	Oh yeah, when I tried it I made a bookmark of the bookmarks page and that made it crash when you open bookmarks
2020-05-18 05:57:20	makeworld	I don't even have any bookmarks, it was a fresh install with no config
2020-05-18 05:57:25	makeworld	But nice work lol
2020-05-18 06:42:25	styan	makeworld: The last entry in your `one-liners.gmi' made me think of this: https://i.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/dtect/
2020-05-18 06:55:56	epoch	bytebeats is what they're called
2020-05-18 07:04:32	styan	epoch: That is really cool.
2020-05-18 07:05:20	styan	There is a high probability of me writing a `glitch:' implementation.
2020-05-18 07:11:27	@julienxx	makeworld: weird I don't have issues with bookmarks, let me try without any maybe
2020-05-18 07:12:44	@julienxx	hmm no problem without a bookmarks file
2020-05-18 07:14:09	epoch	? daheck is "glitch:"?
2020-05-18 07:14:11	⚡	epoch looks up stuff
2020-05-18 07:14:59	styan	epoch: The last paragraph of http://canonical.org/%7Ekragen/bytebeat/
2020-05-18 07:18:41	epoch	seems like a glitch URI could be better done with a data URI
2020-05-18 07:19:14	styan	Either way, it is a stack machine, and I am in. :-)
2020-05-18 07:19:39	epoch	data:application/glitch,<data>
2020-05-18 07:20:20	epoch	the example glitch://data would have the data as the authority section which bugs me.
2020-05-18 07:21:10	styan	It seems to be a multi-line file format.
2020-05-18 07:21:46	styan	application/x-glitch
2020-05-18 07:21:56	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-05-18 07:41:33	epoch	you can put %0a
2020-05-18 07:41:34	epoch	:P
2020-05-18 07:42:10	styan	You got me there :-)
2020-05-18 07:50:51	styan	epoch: You were right about it, I was confused because it defines "newline" as '!'.
2020-05-18 07:52:22		lucidiot has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-18 09:45:52	epoch	would it be handy to have a iana urn namespace which subnamespaces like...
2020-05-18 09:46:00	epoch	ip4, asn, ip6, tld ?
2020-05-18 09:50:14	epoch	offtopic anyway
2020-05-18 10:08:44	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-18 10:40:14		quinnj has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-18 11:19:56	@julienxx	Browsing Gemini from 9front https://mastodon.sdf.org/system/media_attachments/files/007/049/840/original/7eb4b5b035ad6797.png this is cool
2020-05-18 11:36:46	xq	neat!
2020-05-18 11:37:06	⚡	xq is laughing way too hard at <dot> auf jeden fall würde ich empfehlen, dass ihr euch von dem gedanken löst, dass man eine engine braucht um ein spiel zu schreiben
2020-05-18 11:37:06	xq	<dot> das ist nicht der fall
2020-05-18 11:37:08	xq	damn :D
2020-05-18 11:37:10	xq	paste fail
2020-05-18 11:37:13	xq	https://www.theolognion.com/
2020-05-18 11:43:26	@tomasino	haha
2020-05-18 11:43:30	@tomasino	i was like... um...
2020-05-18 11:44:50	xq	this site is great satire
2020-05-18 11:49:01	@tomasino	haha
2020-05-18 11:49:03	@tomasino	this is really good
2020-05-18 11:51:35	@tomasino	net news convo brought up the idea of patching gemini support into lynx
2020-05-18 11:51:40	@tomasino	i likes it
2020-05-18 11:51:44	@tomasino	i likes it a lots
2020-05-18 11:52:09	xq	hehe
2020-05-18 11:52:47	xq	if everything works well, i can get client certificate support into my gemini client today
2020-05-18 11:53:02	xq	when this works, i can finally start writing a nicer frontend for that
2020-05-18 11:53:17	xq	do you know of any service that uses this already?
2020-05-18 11:53:40	@tomasino	not sure
2020-05-18 11:55:47	xq	i really love  the idea of client certificates
2020-05-18 11:55:59	xq	allows a really fine grained control for identiy management
2020-05-18 11:57:10	login	yeah, client certificates are really good
2020-05-18 11:57:15	login	especially if they can be remotely loaded
2020-05-18 11:57:23	login	like from a flash drive
2020-05-18 12:45:21	~tiwesdaeg	man, I can't keep up wih compiling all this high paced development gemini software
2020-05-18 12:46:11	@tomasino	what pages are you all bookmarking, or visiting regularly?
2020-05-18 12:46:18	@tomasino	are there a few main aggregators pulling stuff in?
2020-05-18 12:46:23	@tomasino	i want to get in to the reading habit
2020-05-18 12:50:41	~tiwesdaeg	test
2020-05-18 12:50:50	~tiwesdaeg	man, I can't keep up wih compiling all this high paced development gemini software
2020-05-18 12:51:39	xq	login: true! after gurl i want to write a graphical client with support for gemini text rendering and a well-done approach on client certificate management
2020-05-18 12:51:56	xq	tiwesdaeg: everything worked well, last message appeared twice, splitted by a test
2020-05-18 12:53:31	~tiwesdaeg	oh, weird
2020-05-18 12:53:39	~tiwesdaeg	I never saw it send, so I resent
2020-05-18 12:53:50	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure what weechat is on about this morning
2020-05-18 12:54:49	~tiwesdaeg	I want easy client certificates so I can easily try out that tomagotchi plant site
2020-05-18 12:54:55	~tiwesdaeg	I forget the name
2020-05-18 12:56:47	xq	huh ,tamagotchi plant site? :D
2020-05-18 12:58:33	~tiwesdaeg	I forget the name. Something about space plants?
2020-05-18 12:59:03	~tiwesdaeg	I dunno, you use a client certificate to identify and then tend so a virtual plant
2020-05-18 12:59:10	~tiwesdaeg	s/so/to
2020-05-18 12:59:51	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://astrobotany.mozz.us
2020-05-18 13:03:35	xq	thanks, a new test vector!
2020-05-18 13:23:32	admicos	writing a (yet another) client, anyone have any suggestions for the page styling? https://files.ecmelberk.com/img/1589808074.png
2020-05-18 13:35:20	@julienxx	tomasino: I visit astrobotany to water my plant, then capcom and spacewalk usually (both available on gemini.circumlunar.space).
2020-05-18 13:36:21	@julienxx	admicos using a webview?
2020-05-18 13:36:30	admicos	nope
2020-05-18 13:36:35	admicos	gtkdrawingarea + airo
2020-05-18 13:36:37	admicos	cairo*
2020-05-18 13:37:09	@julienxx	looks very slick!
2020-05-18 13:38:05	admicos	thanks
2020-05-18 13:38:51	admicos	i've mostly gone for looks until now, interactivity is going to be a little harder as I'll probably need to implement all the in-content navigation myself
2020-05-18 13:39:02	admicos	currently you can only click on links, otherwise it's a static image
2020-05-18 13:39:35	admicos	(oh also scrolling, but that's just a wrapper over the content widget, everything outside is still being drawn. might need to clip that depending on performance)
2020-05-18 13:41:18	jan6	lol @ theolognion
2020-05-18 13:42:39	@julienxx	admicos: which language are you using?
2020-05-18 13:42:44	admicos	rust with relm
2020-05-18 13:47:09	@julienxx	cool I initially started Castor with relm but had issues and switched to gtk-rs directly
2020-05-18 13:48:00	admicos	yeah, relm is a little finicky
2020-05-18 13:51:52	@tomasino	ahh, perfect. thanks julien
2020-05-18 14:29:13	~tiwesdaeg	 /buffer 2
2020-05-18 14:29:23	~tiwesdaeg	I have been doing that a lot lately
2020-05-18 14:32:42	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-18 14:35:48		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-18 14:36:43	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-18 14:44:00	~tiwesdaeg	maybe it's time to move my weather station over to the gemini protocol from gopher
2020-05-18 14:44:49	@tomasino	could be cool. Nice reliable utf-8
2020-05-18 14:45:40	~tiwesdaeg	I'd have to redo a lot of it
2020-05-18 15:02:55	xq	admicos: sweet!
2020-05-18 15:03:04	xq	I still consider what toolkit i want to use
2020-05-18 15:03:18	xq	how's GTK in general? good experience?
2020-05-18 15:04:18	admicos	gtk is good if you want to stick with *nix, as windows builds can be painful and won't integrate well
2020-05-18 15:05:01	admicos	plus, i use relm on top of gtk, which is still on beta, but if you want to use raw gtk calls (or something like glade), it should work pretty well
2020-05-18 15:05:29	xq	yeah, im Zig coder, not using Rust, so pure C apis are the one for me
2020-05-18 15:05:55	xq	but sadly, there aren't many good C-based UI toolkits
2020-05-18 15:06:37	admicos	the only (good) ui toolkits i know of are: gtk, qt, and electon (if you count it)
2020-05-18 15:06:52	admicos	qt is c++, electon is (ugh) js
2020-05-18 15:07:02	admicos	maybe wxwidgets or fltk, though i haven't used them
2020-05-18 15:07:47	xq	yeah
2020-05-18 15:08:02	xq	Qt is just "too big" for my taste, even if i like working with it
2020-05-18 15:08:14	xq	gtk looks really sweet, i love the style of modern GTK
2020-05-18 15:08:23	xq	it's really unique, but very usable
2020-05-18 15:08:25	admicos	qt is an entire c++ stdlib on it's own, right?
2020-05-18 15:08:27	admicos	with qstrings and stuff
2020-05-18 15:08:29	xq	yeah
2020-05-18 15:08:40	xq	And yeah. Electron is … Electron
2020-05-18 15:08:56	admicos	i actually considered just using opengl+sdl, but having to re-implement literally everything can be a pain
2020-05-18 15:09:08	admicos	integration with the host os becomes especially difficult
2020-05-18 15:09:35	xq	do you know Dear ImGui?
2020-05-18 15:09:46	admicos	yep
2020-05-18 15:10:00	xq	with SDL, it's a quite a joy
2020-05-18 15:10:04	xq	and the feature set is nice
2020-05-18 15:10:23	admicos	that might be good with a little bit of style tweaking, but i'm not entirely sure on it's input handling, accessibility, etc.
2020-05-18 15:10:34	admicos	i remember it as more of a debugging tool than a complete ui toolkit
2020-05-18 15:10:37	admicos	might be false, though
2020-05-18 15:11:44	xq	i've written complete UI Applications with it
2020-05-18 15:11:58	xq	it works really well, but it looks all the same™
2020-05-18 15:26:46	ℹ 	login is now known as l
2020-05-18 15:27:09	ℹ 	l is now known as login
2020-05-18 15:42:34	makeworld	julienxx: I found the bug
2020-05-18 15:42:59	makeworld	When I open Castor, without specifying a page, then click the bookmarks bar it crashes with this error:
2020-05-18 15:43:01	makeworld	thread 'main' panicked at 'called `Result::unwrap()` on an `Err` value: RelativeUrlWithoutBase', src/draw.rs:259:27
2020-05-18 15:43:55	@julienxx	that's weird, I almost never specify a page and I can open the bookmarks with or without a bookmarks file
2020-05-18 15:44:38	makeworld	Huh
2020-05-18 15:45:24	@julienxx	you're running 0.8.7 right? Under which OS?
2020-05-18 15:46:11	makeworld	Linux
2020-05-18 15:46:26	makeworld	With no castor settings file
2020-05-18 15:51:52	⚡	jan6 loves fltk's lightness
2020-05-18 15:52:02	makeworld	Ok once I wrote a castor settings file it worked julienxx
2020-05-18 15:52:08	makeworld	Maybe that was the issue?
2020-05-18 15:52:38	@julienxx	Ha interesting, I'll try to reproduce. Thanks!
2020-05-18 16:00:40	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: I'm getting a weird behavior on castor
2020-05-18 16:00:58	~tiwesdaeg	I think it may be related to gemserv
2020-05-18 16:01:22	~tiwesdaeg	maybe not?
2020-05-18 16:01:29	~tiwesdaeg	also, only happening on openbsd
2020-05-18 16:01:50	~tiwesdaeg	if I enter tilde.pink in to the url bar, it crashes
2020-05-18 16:02:33	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://tilde.pink does it too, but not tilde.pink/ or gemini://tilde.pink/
2020-05-18 16:04:34	jan6	maybe it doesn't handle redirects?
2020-05-18 16:04:48	~tiwesdaeg	it's that one domain
2020-05-18 16:04:56	@julienxx	you server is trying to redirect to / it seems
2020-05-18 16:05:08	~tiwesdaeg	libraryoferis.org is also on gemserv
2020-05-18 16:05:31	~tiwesdaeg	but they are different versions
2020-05-18 16:05:46	@julienxx	I'm not sure I handle relative redirects yet
2020-05-18 16:05:57	~tiwesdaeg	I think tilde.pink is the newer
2020-05-18 16:06:18	~tiwesdaeg	I'll try and upgrade the other to see if I get the same behavior
2020-05-18 16:06:22	@julienxx	adding a trailing slash works
2020-05-18 16:06:26	~tiwesdaeg	yep
2020-05-18 16:06:42	@julienxx	I should re-read the spec on relative redirects
2020-05-18 16:07:16	@julienxx	but it's weird to force a redirect to '/' IMO
2020-05-18 16:08:45	makeworld	Can confirm the crashing
2020-05-18 16:09:18	@julienxx	yeah Castor tries to access '/' but has no domain in it's history to append the / to
2020-05-18 16:09:40	~tiwesdaeg	let me confirm which is the older instance
2020-05-18 16:09:53	@julienxx	should be an easy fix but I first want to make sure I'm supposed to support this
2020-05-18 16:10:49	jba	I've seen relative redirects to '/' on a few sites now
2020-05-18 16:11:16	~tiwesdaeg	looks like tilde.pink is the newer
2020-05-18 16:15:35	~tiwesdaeg	these rust projects take forever to build ;P
2020-05-18 16:16:12	⚡	makeworld whispers golang to stir up contreversy
2020-05-18 16:16:53	@julienxx	that's the price of safety :p
2020-05-18 16:17:18	⚡	xq throws Zig into the Room and feels like his toy isn't completly done yet
2020-05-18 16:20:23	jan6	lol
2020-05-18 16:20:34	@julienxx	for the tilde pink issue it looks like it's not a redirect issue. Without a trailing slash the server does not seem to send a CRLF
2020-05-18 16:20:42	⚡	jan6 throws V in the room
2020-05-18 16:20:49	xq	that's vapour vare :D
2020-05-18 16:20:56	xq	although Jai is even more :D
2020-05-18 16:41:32	~tiwesdaeg	I think I fixed it
2020-05-18 16:42:35	~tiwesdaeg	there is an option in config.toml about redirects
2020-05-18 16:42:51	~tiwesdaeg	I uncommented it and now it's killing castor
2020-05-18 16:50:05	jan6	is killing good?
2020-05-18 16:50:15	@tomasino	only vegetables
2020-05-18 16:50:25	jan6	and nuts, and fruits
2020-05-18 16:52:42	@julienxx	poor Castor
2020-05-18 16:54:58	@julienxx	(a castor is a beaver in french)
2020-05-18 16:57:28	~tiwesdaeg	the french were big on beaver/castor trapping back in the day
2020-05-18 16:59:59	@julienxx	looks like tilde.pink works without a / now
2020-05-18 17:00:00	~tiwesdaeg	oops
2020-05-18 17:00:08	~tiwesdaeg	yeah
2020-05-18 17:00:16	~tiwesdaeg	after I changed that setting for gemserv
2020-05-18 17:00:29	@julienxx	cool
2020-05-18 17:00:44	~tiwesdaeg	now I'm killing castor for new reasons
2020-05-18 17:01:09	~tiwesdaeg	I got the gemserv author to add .gmi support
2020-05-18 17:01:32	@julienxx	so much hate for the poor little animal ^^
2020-05-18 17:01:35	~tiwesdaeg	I just added that change for libraryoferis.org, but forgot to change the files from .gemini to .gmi
2020-05-18 17:01:42	~tiwesdaeg	also causes castor to crash
2020-05-18 17:03:01	@julienxx	hmm must be on the server side
2020-05-18 17:03:18	@julienxx	sending invalid data somehow
2020-05-18 17:05:22	@julienxx	Some 9front gemini action https://toobnix.org/videos/watch/aed52d47-3c6c-413a-b84c-925990cd86aa
2020-05-18 17:06:01	~tiwesdaeg	there we go
2020-05-18 17:06:32	~tiwesdaeg	should I install 9term in anticipation?
2020-05-18 17:07:59	~tiwesdaeg	mothra is so weird
2020-05-18 17:08:03	~tiwesdaeg	like acme
2020-05-18 17:43:26	@julienxx	Everything is so different in plan9, that’s fun to explore at least
2020-05-18 17:48:07	⚡	tomasino sings the mothra song
2020-05-18 19:34:25	▬▬▶	KayW has joined #gemini
2020-05-18 19:54:07	~tiwesdaeg	gemserv's vhirtual hosts work perfectly
2020-05-18 19:56:28	@tomasino	brilliant
2020-05-18 20:16:48	xq	someone here was a freebsd user, right?
2020-05-18 20:16:57	xq	does XDG specs also apply to freebsd?
2020-05-18 20:21:57	epoch	if you want them to?
2020-05-18 20:23:53	@tomasino	officially, i don't think so
2020-05-18 20:23:56	@tomasino	but they can be used 
2020-05-18 20:24:04	@tomasino	it's nice to have a fallback path if they're unset
2020-05-18 20:29:30	xq	yeah, are these the default ones also common on linux?
2020-05-18 20:29:34	xq	like ~/.config
2020-05-18 20:33:04	epoch	I figured they should have just made .local and put everything in there in the same way stuff gets put in /usr/local
2020-05-18 20:33:21	epoch	instead of half of everything in .local and the other half in .config and .cache or whatever
2020-05-18 20:33:52	epoch	maybe have .config be a symlink to ~/.local/etc or something
2020-05-18 20:34:18	epoch	and .cache be ~/.local/var/cache
2020-05-18 20:43:46	xq	:D
2020-05-18 20:43:57	xq	yeah, we're trying to write a special folders library
2020-05-18 20:44:03	xq	and it looks like it's the same mess everywhere
2020-05-18 20:49:22	makeworld	Ooh, spec changes coming up
2020-05-18 20:49:25	makeworld	See the mailing list
2020-05-18 20:51:56	xq	already noticed it, will read it son
2020-05-18 20:53:59	@tomasino	i'm in favor of all the changes solderpunk laid out
2020-05-18 20:58:06	@julienxx	Same for me
2020-05-18 21:28:27	makeworld	I just have an issue with 2, as I described in my email
2020-05-18 21:43:25	epoch	where's the mailing list?
2020-05-18 21:43:48	epoch	nvm
2020-05-18 21:43:55	epoch	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/listinfo/gemini
2020-05-18 21:55:42	makeworld	Yep
2020-05-18 21:55:59	makeworld	That's where all the Gemini info happens, it's a good idea to subscribe
2020-05-18 21:56:03	makeworld	Although it's somewhat busy
2020-05-18 21:56:38	epoch	if text/* is supposed to require \r\n for line endings, what mime-type would you use for text files with unix line endings?
2020-05-18 21:56:48	epoch	I sub'd
2020-05-18 22:01:17	@tomasino	you can author in either
2020-05-18 22:01:25	@tomasino	it's the server that needs to transmit crlf
2020-05-18 22:05:36	styan	xq: Most of the *NIX desktop software uses XDG, which *NIX OS you use does not matter for that.
2020-05-18 22:06:02	makeworld	epoch: My issue is that no one really follows that rule
2020-05-18 22:06:27	styan	xq: Also, if you are looking for a good GUI toolkit to use with C, there is always Tk.  :-)
2020-05-18 22:07:01	epoch	yeah, I don't follow that rule for stuff my http server sends out
2020-05-18 22:08:00	epoch	but, is there an rfc that has anything saying what a unix newline file should be called?
2020-05-18 22:08:44	styan	text/plain-better?
2020-05-18 22:08:48	makeworld	Lol
2020-05-18 22:08:52	epoch	like sure "you shouldn't do that" is there, but unless they've made up alternative to doing it "wrong", then let's just keep doing it wrong the same way we've been doing it wrong
2020-05-18 22:08:57	makeworld	I'd be surprised if there was epoch
2020-05-18 22:09:06	makeworld	Yeah exactly
2020-05-18 22:09:12	makeworld	That's what I argued in my email
2020-05-18 22:09:26	makeworld	No response yet, we'll see what happens
2020-05-18 22:09:33	⚡	makeworld afk
2020-05-18 22:11:46	epoch	maybe a "charset"-like option?
2020-05-18 22:14:07	epoch	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5147#section-4.1
2020-05-18 22:14:53	epoch	"   Implementers should be aware of the fact that line endings in plain
2020-05-18 22:14:54	epoch	   text entities can be represented by other characters or character
2020-05-18 22:14:54	epoch	   sequences than CR+LF."
2020-05-18 22:19:29	@tomasino	Sounds like something good to share
2020-05-18 22:19:29	xq	styan: thanks for the answer
2020-05-18 22:37:07		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-18 22:37:22	epoch	let's see if I'm able to send mail...
2020-05-18 22:37:40	epoch	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-3.7.1
2020-05-18 22:38:04	epoch	that's the part of the http RFC that says to allow alternate line endings
2020-05-18 22:38:40	epoch	looks like I can send email properly. :)
2020-05-18 22:38:54	epoch	got a "awaits moderation approval" response
2020-05-18 22:41:07	epoch	looks like I used the wrong email address.
2020-05-18 22:42:18	makeworld	Huh you should just be able to sign up to the mailing list on the website you linked
2020-05-18 22:43:59	epoch	I had signed up with the wrong address
2020-05-18 22:44:25	epoch	the email I sent was from epoch@enzo.thebackupbox.net and I signed up with epoch@thebackupbox.net
2020-05-18 22:44:57	epoch	I just changed my subscription to use @enzo so it shouldn't be a problem anymore
2020-05-18 22:45:29	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-05-18 22:46:39	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-18 22:58:20	makeworld	Can anyone ping 81.2.126.37 for me?
2020-05-18 22:58:36	makeworld	Or access gemini://gemini.ucant.org ?
2020-05-18 22:58:53	makeworld	I get "Packet filtered" and "No route to host" respectively
2020-05-18 23:01:17	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: From 81.2.112.182 icmp_seq=1 Packet filtered
2020-05-18 23:01:30	makeworld	Okay, not just me then
2020-05-18 23:01:45	cmccabe	no route to host is what bombadillo tells me
2020-05-18 23:01:45	makeworld	This is the latest email on the mailing list, I'll reply and let them know
2020-05-18 23:01:53	~tiwesdaeg	TLS Dial Error: dial tcp 81.2.126.37:1965: connect: no route to host
2020-05-18 23:04:01	makeworld	I figured it was just some misconfiguration
2020-05-18 23:04:09	makeworld	But I've never seen Packet filtered before
2020-05-18 23:04:42	makeworld	I know it's used for censoring for sometimes, but idk why it would appear here
2020-05-18 23:05:37	wangofett	packet filtered? Weeeeeeird
2020-05-18 23:05:51	wangofett	(confirmed that behavior, fwiw
2020-05-18 23:18:52	makeworld	Yeah it's strange
2020-05-18 23:19:06	makeworld	Since everyone's getting it, it's not my ISP or something
2020-05-18 23:19:13	makeworld	Maybe it's anti-DDOS prevention
2020-05-18 23:19:19	makeworld	Or some weird hosting setup
2020-05-18 23:20:30	makeworld	Ah he just replied, said it was the firewall
2020-05-18 23:23:40	makeworld	And it looks like he'll be joining us here!
2020-05-18 23:24:09	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Could you add a notice about logging to the chan topic? Might good for people to know
2020-05-18 23:24:20	makeworld	"This chan is logged on Gemini" or something
2020-05-18 23:25:39		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-18 23:26:26	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-18 23:29:02		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 00:24:59		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-19 00:38:30		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 00:42:10	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 00:42:11	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-05-19 00:55:25		smoerk has quit (team.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-05-19 00:55:25		jeffpc has quit (team.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-05-19 00:55:31	▬▬▶	jeffpc has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 00:55:33	▬▬▶	smoerk has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 01:00:49		KayW has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 01:01:18	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 01:52:49	▬▬▶	quinnj has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 02:53:50	makeworld	julienxx tomasino Maybe one of you could do that ^^ ? I'm not clear on perms
2020-05-19 03:27:03		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 03:57:48		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 03:58:51	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 07:18:03	▬▬▶	dacav has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 07:26:32	@julienxx	I don’t think I’m a chan op
2020-05-19 08:19:46	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 10:35:05	▬▬▶	mk270 has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 10:44:33		mk270 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 11:47:42	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 12:08:46	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 12:08:52	▬▬▶	xwindows has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 12:10:38	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 12:32:05	southerntofu	hi, i'm curious if there's been discussions in the past about DANE for TLS certificate distribution ?
2020-05-19 12:32:50	southerntofu	i love TOFU, but i strongly believe certificate discovery should take place on the name resolution level
2020-05-19 12:33:14	@julienxx	I don't think it was mentioned, didn't knew it existed myself
2020-05-19 12:33:34	southerntofu	(because DNSSEC is a thing, and if your DNS gets hijacked TLS is the least of your worries, and also because DNS will sooner or later be replaced with better tchnology like the GNU Name System)
2020-05-19 12:34:08	southerntofu	julienxx: hey thanks for the info
2020-05-19 12:34:43	southerntofu	where can i start a discussion about this? should i subscribe to the ML and post there?
2020-05-19 12:36:07	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: you are a channel op!
2020-05-19 12:36:28	~tiwesdaeg	also, do we really have any more room in the topic?
2020-05-19 12:36:32	@julienxx	southerntofu: yes
2020-05-19 12:36:40	@julienxx	tiwesdaeg: cool, thanks
2020-05-19 12:39:35	~tiwesdaeg	we are now ranked above #covid19 at 8th largest channel
2020-05-19 12:51:24	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [-o julienxx] by julienxx
2020-05-19 12:55:06	~tiwesdaeg	awww
2020-05-19 12:55:21	julienxx	tiwesdaeg: I think I removed my op thing by mistake ^^
2020-05-19 12:55:30	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by tiwesdaeg
2020-05-19 12:55:44	~tiwesdaeg	you're on auto-op with chanserv anyway
2020-05-19 12:55:58	~tiwesdaeg	any time you join, chanserv will op you
2020-05-19 12:56:00	@julienxx	neat
2020-05-19 12:56:32	~tiwesdaeg	I didn't bother opping ben, he's like a super duper op
2020-05-19 12:57:17	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 12:57:23	Ernoz	hey
2020-05-19 12:57:27	~tiwesdaeg	howdy
2020-05-19 12:58:34	Ernoz	how are you? :)
2020-05-19 12:58:59	~tiwesdaeg	sipping tea and waking up, you?
2020-05-19 13:29:20	southerntofu	thanks for the info i'll drop a mail later today :)
2020-05-19 13:35:03	ben	tiwesdaeg: did you use /cs aop?
2020-05-19 13:35:18	ben	note that you'll need to be logged in to services to be auto-opped
2020-05-19 13:36:55	~tiwesdaeg	I used some long command I always have to ask chanserv about
2020-05-19 13:37:23	ben	aop/qop/hop/vop are the easiest way to do it
2020-05-19 13:37:34	ben	eg /cs aop #gemini add tiwesdaeg
2020-05-19 13:37:51	ben	i always forget the commands for the other way
2020-05-19 13:37:54	ben	something with flags
2020-05-19 13:38:18	@tomasino	i like keeping chanserv in my room with me
2020-05-19 13:38:21	@tomasino	it's cozy
2020-05-19 13:39:03	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm /cs doesn't seem to be doing anything for me
2020-05-19 13:39:15	~tiwesdaeg	but /msg chanserv does
2020-05-19 13:40:07	ℹ 	Notice(cosmic.tilde.chat): *** ChanServ invited ChanServ into the channel
2020-05-19 13:40:08	@tomasino	no /cs for me either
2020-05-19 13:40:28	~tiwesdaeg	sounds like an alias on your client?
2020-05-19 13:40:56	~tiwesdaeg	aww, I invited chanserv, but he didn't come
2020-05-19 13:41:10	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-05-19 13:41:20	~tiwesdaeg	see, that one worked fine
2020-05-19 13:41:44	@tomasino	hrm
2020-05-19 13:41:48	@tomasino	i forget how i got him into cosmic
2020-05-19 13:42:29	~tiwesdaeg	I'm reading through the help
2020-05-19 13:42:32	@tomasino	i think it might be protect or enforce or something
2020-05-19 13:43:20	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+a tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-05-19 13:43:39	~tiwesdaeg	that was protect
2020-05-19 13:49:29	@ben	/quote cs
2020-05-19 13:49:34	@ben	it's an ircd alias
2020-05-19 13:49:39	@ben	your client just isn't forwarding it on
2020-05-19 13:49:50	@ben	/set irc.network.send_unknown_commands on
2020-05-19 13:50:09	@ben	not really a huge reason to bring chanserv in
2020-05-19 15:24:16	m68k	howdy folks
2020-05-19 15:25:19	m68k	uhh I guess I realize this is open-ended but I've been using jetforce since december, I installed it once & left it. Is there a "fuller" server I should be using instead by now?
2020-05-19 15:25:32	m68k	that's also not too complicated to set up ^_^;
2020-05-19 15:25:43	@tomasino	you can update jetforce and keep running it, but there's a bunch of other options too
2020-05-19 15:25:46	@tomasino	check out teh link in the topic
2020-05-19 15:25:58	@tomasino	many, many new ones available
2020-05-19 15:26:25	m68k	yeah I guess I can just read throug the ist
2020-05-19 15:26:28	m68k	*list
2020-05-19 15:29:12	@tomasino	tiwesdaeg: which one did you just switch to again?
2020-05-19 15:29:29	@tomasino	he was running jetforce and likes this new one better as it offers some nice out-of-the-box stuff
2020-05-19 15:31:04	m68k	oh, looks like there's not actually that many new servers. Maybe Molly Brown? I feel like I read that it's more of the "flagship" one now
2020-05-19 15:48:12	@tomasino	molly brown is solderpunks, so it's got that goin for it 
2020-05-19 15:48:17	@tomasino	but it's behind on features 
2020-05-19 15:51:27	makeworld	Yeah, it seems Jetforce has more
2020-05-19 15:54:57	kayw	Jetforce is super nice imo
2020-05-19 15:55:01	kayw	works extremely well
2020-05-19 15:55:55		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-19 15:57:21	m68k	ah, ok thanks for the responses. I don't do any scripting on my server so it's fine for me, for some reason I thought it was less featured than others by now
2020-05-19 15:57:45	@tomasino	well, just make sure you give it a pull and build the latest once in a while
2020-05-19 15:57:54	@tomasino	still plenty of dev happening on the spec
2020-05-19 16:00:43	m68k	yeah, just went from 0.2.0->0.2.2, forgot that pip packages don't get updated in my scheduled updates
2020-05-19 16:32:14		quinnj has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 17:07:55		smoerk has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-19 17:39:38	m68k	aha, great. my cert isn't up to spec apparently. I think that might have been why I thought another server was better...
2020-05-19 17:40:00	m68k	time to read the last month or two of the mailing list and find the current best practice
2020-05-19 17:50:09	kayw	question: should I have a robots.txt file for my server?
2020-05-19 17:56:25	xq	guys, the gurl client has now tofu support :)
2020-05-19 17:56:31	xq	*happy*
2020-05-19 17:59:19	xq	next up: *shiver* client certs
2020-05-19 18:54:25	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: gemserv
2020-05-19 18:55:49	~tiwesdaeg	cgi works, vhosts works, and user directories work as well
2020-05-19 18:55:58	~tiwesdaeg	it's like everything I need in one place
2020-05-19 20:43:35	xq	<xq> guys, the gurl client has now tofu support :)
2020-05-19 20:43:38	xq	well, maybe not yet…
2020-05-19 20:43:43	xq	i missunderstood something :D
2020-05-19 20:43:47	xq	back to the code
2020-05-19 20:43:57	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 20:47:03	makeworld	Test
2020-05-19 20:47:17	makeworld	Gemini IRC logs are back online... for now anyway
2020-05-19 20:47:28	makeworld	My internet has been acting up today ;(
2020-05-19 20:48:57	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: what's the link again?
2020-05-19 20:49:14	⚡	tiwesdaeg is attempting to compile firefox-esr
2020-05-19 20:49:20	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/cgi-bin/gemini-irc
2020-05-19 20:49:39	makeworld	tiwesdaeg
2020-05-19 20:49:55	makeworld	I was thinking you should mention that this chat is logged in the topic btw
2020-05-19 20:50:27	makeworld	Good luck, compiling browsers is no joke...
2020-05-19 20:51:19	~tiwesdaeg	well, netbsd pkgsrc doesn't currently have a modern version of firefox in binary form
2020-05-19 20:51:49	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using pkgsrc to compile it, but my guess is something will go wrong, which is why there isn't a current binary
2020-05-19 20:52:00	~tiwesdaeg	esr 52 is the only thing available right now
2020-05-19 20:52:31	@tomasino	you need historicals makeworld ?
2020-05-19 20:52:40	@tomasino	i can shoot you a copy of my old logs back to nearly channel creation
2020-05-19 20:53:11	makeworld	I'll take 'em, but my server only displays the most recent 100 lines right now so they won't be online
2020-05-19 20:53:17	@tomasino	ahha
2020-05-19 20:53:18	~tiwesdaeg	these should all be converted to picture meme format
2020-05-19 20:53:19	makeworld	But I wouldn't mind having them :)
2020-05-19 20:53:55	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QEL.weechat
2020-05-19 20:54:26	makeworld	Nice thanks
2020-05-19 20:54:36	@tomasino	NP
2020-05-19 20:54:41	~tiwesdaeg	stupid web pages
2020-05-19 20:54:59	~tiwesdaeg	this recipe site keep crashing my tab on firefox 52
2020-05-19 20:55:12	makeworld	o.O
2020-05-19 20:55:51	~tiwesdaeg	it's baked ziti for dinner tonight
2020-05-19 20:55:52	@tomasino	recipe sites are beasts
2020-05-19 20:55:56	@tomasino	pi-holes help
2020-05-19 20:56:17	~tiwesdaeg	especially when 90% of the page is some long story
2020-05-19 20:56:28	~tiwesdaeg	I just want some simple instructions
2020-05-19 20:57:44	makeworld	Can't remember what it is now, but I saw some tool that will attempt to automatically remove that and just find the recipe
2020-05-19 20:57:55	makeworld	What a world where you have to write tools like that lol
2020-05-19 20:58:27	makeworld	+1 for pi-hole though, it's been great for me
2020-05-19 20:58:36	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/recipebox
2020-05-19 20:58:59	~tiwesdaeg	does it have baked ziti?
2020-05-19 20:59:04	makeworld	Ooh
2020-05-19 20:59:24	@tomasino	i have a couple things i should add
2020-05-19 20:59:35	@tomasino	like the perfect way to make popcorn
2020-05-19 20:59:59	makeworld	Do tell
2020-05-19 21:00:02	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, don't make it, perfecto
2020-05-19 21:00:26	~tiwesdaeg	I like my corn ground
2020-05-19 21:00:30	@tomasino	I'll add it to the hole! :D
2020-05-19 21:00:33	~tiwesdaeg	though elote ain't bad
2020-05-19 21:00:52	~tiwesdaeg	ok, I take it back
2020-05-19 21:00:59	~tiwesdaeg	if it's kettle corn, I am down
2020-05-19 21:09:00		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 21:10:15	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 21:10:54		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 21:11:20	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 21:11:40	@tomasino	popcorn recipe added
2020-05-19 21:17:10	xq	it's funny to start reading gemini pages via gurl requests instead of using castor :D
2020-05-19 21:17:18	xq	but hey, it works and using the own client is a good test
2020-05-19 21:19:45	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 21:25:48	⚡	tiwesdaeg waves at sloum
2020-05-19 21:26:26	sloum	There was some chatter on the mailing list re: a formatting tool ala go fmt. Do any of you think you'd use a tool like that? If so, I could probably write something in AWK tonight that would get the job done. AWK should be reasonably portable for most users.
2020-05-19 21:26:41	sloum	I know know how to do actions in IRC, but I wave back tiwesdaeg!
2020-05-19 21:27:12	@tomasino	i just write in vim with PencilSoft enabled
2020-05-19 21:27:19	⚡	xq waves at sloum and thinks: Hell yeah, autoformatters!
2020-05-19 21:27:21	sloum	What is PencilSoft?
2020-05-19 21:27:34	@tomasino	Pencil plugin
2020-05-19 21:27:37	@tomasino	it's one of the modes
2020-05-19 21:27:41	@tomasino	excellent vim plugin for writing
2020-05-19 21:27:49	@tomasino	m Reeves
2020-05-19 21:27:51	@tomasino	lemme find you a link
2020-05-19 21:28:00	@tomasino	https://github.com/reedes/vim-pencil
2020-05-19 21:28:05	@tomasino	reedes, got his name wrong
2020-05-19 21:28:15	@tomasino	i use a bunch of his plugins for writing prose
2020-05-19 21:28:33	sloum	Hm. I ahve not delved into plugins and tend to just use base Vim (well, I use SpaceVim at work... I guess that uses plugins, but I've never configured any of them). I'll take a look. Sounds interesting!
2020-05-19 21:28:41		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 21:30:37	@tomasino	that readme is a treasure trove of techniques you can use with it and links to ohter good plugins for writing
2020-05-19 21:31:02	sloum	Interesting. So that easily takes care of how wrapping is handled... which is something I felt like couldnt be easily done by a formatter (since it is difficult to know whether someone _really_ wanted that newline there or if it is just a continuation)
2020-05-19 21:31:28	@tomasino	yeah, and there's some powerful rules to customize it by language
2020-05-19 21:32:09	@tomasino	there's a part about blacklisting down further in the readme explaining how to avoid breaking markdown links, for instance
2020-05-19 21:32:43	sloum	Oh cool. That does sound really nice and useful.
2020-05-19 21:37:47	▬▬▶	mk has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 21:37:54	ℹ 	mk is now known as mk270
2020-05-19 21:48:35	xq	makeworld, now that you mention it
2020-05-19 21:48:47	xq	i haven't taken a look at your page! 😱
2020-05-19 21:48:58	makeworld	Haha
2020-05-19 21:49:14	makeworld	Well better take a look now before my internet goes out again!
2020-05-19 21:49:46	xq	WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT :D
2020-05-19 21:49:54	xq	your email is glorious
2020-05-19 21:49:57	xq	♥
2020-05-19 21:50:31	makeworld	Aww thanks
2020-05-19 21:50:55		styan has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-19 21:50:55	admicos	makeworld: your page seems to be rendering "fine" on moonlander in my end. does your system default sans-serif support the unicode madness you have?
2020-05-19 21:51:04	makeworld	I picked up that trick from https://mathilde.website/ although their site seems to be down right now
2020-05-19 21:51:05	admicos	(fine: same with castor)
2020-05-19 21:51:12	makeworld	Hmm let me check again with moonlander
2020-05-19 21:51:13	xq	i think my client handles it right though
2020-05-19 21:51:13	xq	https://mq32.de/public/526498cefe08af0f255dec9451492ac51d2e54fe.png
2020-05-19 21:52:20	makeworld	admicos: Looks like it's just having issues loading it for some reason
2020-05-19 21:52:37	admicos	makeworld: yeah, there are some issues loading some pages
2020-05-19 21:52:42	makeworld	But my homepage loads fine
2020-05-19 21:52:48	admicos	probably the page clipping acting up
2020-05-19 21:52:52	makeworld	I assumed the unicode was messing it up
2020-05-19 21:52:54	makeworld	But yeah idk
2020-05-19 21:53:05	makeworld	Sorry for naming and shaming in the email ;)
2020-05-19 21:53:18	admicos	lol no worries, it's still in development
2020-05-19 21:53:51	admicos	with the surface caching implemented, i'm not sure how effective the clipping would be relative to the pain it's given me
2020-05-19 21:53:57	admicos	especially since it's a complete afterthought
2020-05-19 21:55:27	admicos	but that's for tomorrow, it's getting late here
2020-05-19 21:56:08	makeworld	Hmm I just thought of another client torture test, but I also have a question
2020-05-19 21:56:27	makeworld	What if I request a resource, and it responds with status 10, for input
2020-05-19 21:56:51	makeworld	But after providing input, by re-requesting: resource.gmi?querytext, it responds with status 10 again, for more input
2020-05-19 21:57:11	makeworld	Is that valid? It should be, I think
2020-05-19 21:57:24	admicos	not sure about the spec, but i can tell you what moonlander will do
2020-05-19 21:57:28	admicos	completely ignore and probably panic
2020-05-19 21:57:49	admicos	status codes that aren't 2x or 3x are not implemented yet
2020-05-19 21:57:57	makeworld	But then would some clients do the next request as: resource.gmi?querytext?nextquery, or would it be resource.gmi?nextquery ? Which is correct?
2020-05-19 21:58:35	makeworld	I believe it's the latter, but I bet a lot of clients just tack it on and would fail
2020-05-19 21:59:13	admicos	i'd say it will depend on the author, and if they decided to use a proper url parser or written their own
2020-05-19 21:59:30	admicos	(and if they choose to use it in this specific situation)
2020-05-19 21:59:41	admicos	it's definitely tempting to just append ?query into the url
2020-05-19 22:00:32	makeworld	Yeah, but a proper usage would be to replace the .query value of a parsed url, then send the new string
2020-05-19 22:01:02	makeworld	s/but//
2020-05-19 22:01:37	admicos	anyway, i'm heading off for today, feel free to torture moonlander more and let me know which parts actually work (because that list will be smaller than the ones that break)
2020-05-19 22:01:56	makeworld	Ha okay, I might. Goodnight!
2020-05-19 22:27:17		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-19 22:28:37		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-19 23:14:52	makeworld	So many graphical clients now..
2020-05-19 23:15:01	makeworld	It's nice, but I'm still partial to bombadillo :)
2020-05-19 23:29:19	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-05-19 23:40:40	bard	bombadillo is great! it's the only client I've used, actually, but I am a fan of it.
2020-05-19 23:47:31	@tomasino	castor has taken first place in my gemini list
2020-05-19 23:47:50	@tomasino	i still default to lynx for gopher, and sometimes bust out vf1 or burrow or bombadillo
2020-05-20 00:02:27	styan	I saw that OpenBSD 6.7 is out, and I am happy to see the sioctl_ondesc(3) interface.
2020-05-20 00:03:40	@tomasino	i tried updating black, but it broke everything and i rolled back
2020-05-20 00:05:47	styan	How so?
2020-05-20 00:06:18	@tomasino	services all came up, but pkg_add threw a C error and wouldn't run
2020-05-20 00:06:28	@tomasino	most(1) wasn't installed 
2020-05-20 00:06:35	@tomasino	i couldn't diff the remaining files that needed merging
2020-05-20 00:07:40	styan	That sounds like a mess.  At least you got it back to a known-good state.
2020-05-20 00:07:57	@tomasino	i made sure to take a snapshot before i started
2020-05-20 00:08:02	@tomasino	:)
2020-05-20 00:14:40	styan	Oh, This is #gemini, the windows are in a different order now.
2020-05-20 00:21:42	bard	I was pleasantly surprised that bombadillo could browser gopher. I remember looking into gopher a year or two ago and not liking the browser selection much
2020-05-20 00:21:52	bard	s/browser gopher/browse gopher/
2020-05-20 00:22:33	kayw	bombadillo is a great browser
2020-05-20 00:28:09	styan	I think I know what I could put on Gemini.  Retro Forth practice!
2020-05-20 00:29:37	styan	The source files already use literate programming, and if I want code blocks s/~~~/```/.
2020-05-20 00:36:08	makeworld	What gemini servers support CGI, besides Jetforce?
2020-05-20 00:36:46	makeworld	I'm writing a gemini app, but I'm trying to make it work through CGI so you wouldn't have to run two servers or something
2020-05-20 00:39:26	makeworld	Ok I found some
2020-05-20 02:16:08	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: gemserv
2020-05-20 02:18:54	makeworld	Yeah, I saw that one thanks. Just wanted to make sure they all support QUERY_STRING and REMOTE_ADDR
2020-05-20 02:19:07	makeworld	But those are part of an RFC iirc, so it should be good
2020-05-20 02:45:56	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 02:46:04	sloum	Good evening everyone :)
2020-05-20 02:47:19	@ben	hola sloum
2020-05-20 02:47:26	@ben	internet troubles?
2020-05-20 02:50:27	sloum	Me? Nope.
2020-05-20 02:53:59	@ben	ah your irc client was disconnected for a while
2020-05-20 02:59:53		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-20 03:31:20	sloum	Oh. I had closed my laptop without logging off.
2020-05-20 03:31:38		sloum has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-20 06:58:46	xwindows	scrollback goto -40
2020-05-20 07:46:36	▬▬▶	quinnj has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 07:58:15	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 11:34:36	@julienxx	Hi geminauts, I'm working on adding font size and family choice for Castor, what defaults do you think would make sense? I was thinking serif and 11.
2020-05-20 11:37:28	admicos	on Moonlander, I use 13.5 (px or pt, not sure) sans-serif, though I recall some places saying serif fonts might be better for readability
2020-05-20 11:42:04	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 11:48:49	@tomasino	serif fonts have increased legibility at larger font sizes, but lower legibility at smaller font sizes
2020-05-20 11:49:51	@tomasino	most news sites focused are at 13 or 13.5 these days
2020-05-20 11:49:59	@tomasino	focused on readibility, rather
2020-05-20 11:52:23	login	a font like fantasque sans mono is nice
2020-05-20 11:52:55	login	if each letter, including mirrored ones like d and b or p and q look different enough, it makes the text easier to read
2020-05-20 11:53:06	login	different enough from each other, i mean
2020-05-20 11:53:37	login	also, something that disambiguates 1, I,l and 0, O and o
2020-05-20 11:56:40	@tomasino	if you're bundling fonts, this is a nice option to include: https://opendyslexic.org/
2020-05-20 12:02:04	@tomasino	but regardless, font & family choice ++!
2020-05-20 12:03:09	@tomasino	lemme think here. You'll have font styling for headings 1,2,3, body, list, fixed, and link ?
2020-05-20 12:03:11	@tomasino	that's not so many
2020-05-20 12:06:22	@julienxx	I won't bundle a font, that's left to the user GTK preferences. I'll have to rewrite the config file shape which will break existing settings probably but whatever
2020-05-20 12:07:23	@tomasino	cool cool
2020-05-20 12:07:54	@tomasino	Can it use multiple fonts? Mostly a distinction between the code-fenced and non?
2020-05-20 12:21:11	admicos	oh no
2020-05-20 12:21:23	admicos	i have no idea how i can do text selection
2020-05-20 12:21:35	admicos	finding which line the cursor is under is easy, already done for link handling
2020-05-20 12:21:38	admicos	but finding each character
2020-05-20 12:27:36	@julienxx	tomasino: code fence would always be monospace
2020-05-20 12:27:55	@julienxx	otherwise art would look like shit
2020-05-20 12:39:39	mk270	hello - how do people expect, if at all, gemini to use client certificates for authenticating users? would it be possible to have a scheme whereby a particular resource is available only to clients whose cert has been signed by a particular signer?
2020-05-20 12:43:35	natpen	join #gemini
2020-05-20 12:43:49		natpen has left #gemini
2020-05-20 12:45:47	admicos	it took just about 2 days for Moonlander's codebase to turn into spaghetti
2020-05-20 12:45:51	admicos	hooray!
2020-05-20 12:47:04	mk270	interesting: i just tried looking up moonlander on duckduckgo, out of muscle memory. then looked it up on gemini ... found it :) unsurprising, but still
2020-05-20 12:47:44	admicos	it's too generic of a name to turn up in the regular web even if it was popular
2020-05-20 12:48:59	mk270	yeah. there are a bunch of htings one does *not* look up on the web: academic paper, law reports, anything involving exact textual phrases (used to be supported), ... looks like a bit more fragmentation, whcih is interesting
2020-05-20 12:51:09	mk270	there are now, what, three gemini clients in rust? can we factor out the protocol handler into a module yet?
2020-05-20 12:53:37		Ekkie has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-20 12:53:37		lel has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-20 12:53:37		creme has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-20 12:54:52	@julienxx	at some point that might be a good idea, haven't looked at how the other clients do this part yet
2020-05-20 12:55:40	admicos	Mine is separated enough to be split from the code base completely, though it's not as clean as i would've liked
2020-05-20 12:55:47	admicos	also missing some features
2020-05-20 12:57:37	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 12:57:52	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 13:00:22	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 13:01:30	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 13:18:42	mk270	also, is there a server torture script?
2020-05-20 13:20:46	xq	there's only a client torture suite by conman
2020-05-20 13:20:48	xq	afaik
2020-05-20 13:21:02	xq	but having a server torture suite wouldn't be bad, either
2020-05-20 13:21:13	@tomasino	sexy curl suite
2020-05-20 13:21:47	login	what is this about torture?
2020-05-20 13:23:39	xq	login: It's a set of bad/good/special requests/responses you throw at a server/client to see how it behaves in bad situations
2020-05-20 13:29:54		Ekkie has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-20 13:29:54		lel has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-20 13:29:54		creme has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-20 13:32:49	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 13:33:55	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 13:35:25	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 13:57:33		quinnj has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-20 14:04:16	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 14:05:59	~tiwesdaeg	login: I use fantasque sans mono for everything
2020-05-20 14:06:10	~tiwesdaeg	it's so comfy
2020-05-20 14:49:46	login	thanks to nilaky for introducing me to it
2020-05-20 14:49:56	login	ah
2020-05-20 15:02:44		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-20 15:49:34	@julienxx	Just pushed a new Castor update where you can set various font family, size and style. Look at the README for setting changes.
2020-05-20 15:52:07	~tiwesdaeg	I'll compile it if I ever get around to finishing up compiling firefox
2020-05-20 15:52:34	~tiwesdaeg	it's first compiling all of rust :(
2020-05-20 15:52:58	@julienxx	wow! Why are you compiling firefox?
2020-05-20 15:55:24	~tiwesdaeg	the binary is missing from the package system on netbsd
2020-05-20 15:55:36	~tiwesdaeg	only firefox52 is available
2020-05-20 15:56:00	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using pkgsrc to hopefully get it compiled, but I have my doubts
2020-05-20 15:58:55	@julienxx	you'll know in 48h :p
2020-05-20 16:07:25	~tiwesdaeg	;P
2020-05-20 16:07:45	~tiwesdaeg	my poor little ryzen 5 is just chugging along
2020-05-20 16:08:29	~tiwesdaeg	it doesn't help that each rust component must download and compile its dependencies over and over
2020-05-20 16:09:03	~tiwesdaeg	looks like I'm compiling nodejs right now
2020-05-20 16:09:26	~tiwesdaeg	I could probably have installed some of these as binary packages
2020-05-20 18:01:37	makeworld	Yikes
2020-05-20 18:01:42	makeworld	Gl
2020-05-20 18:03:53	~tiwesdaeg	I've had to stop from time to time as I have different operating systems on this system that I need to access
2020-05-20 18:38:34	~tiwesdaeg	so, are ``` official yet when it comes to formatted text?
2020-05-20 18:42:41	@julienxx	Yes but not the optional part afterwards yet
2020-05-20 18:43:15	~tiwesdaeg	ok, I need to start using it
2020-05-20 18:43:29	~tiwesdaeg	some browsers seem to pay attention and other don't
2020-05-20 18:55:27	~tiwesdaeg	new non-gemini gemini content
2020-05-20 18:55:32	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://qd.libraryoferis.org/
2020-05-20 19:03:25	kayw	just a heads up, but av-98 is saying that your cert wont be available for another hour and a half
2020-05-20 19:05:48	~tiwesdaeg	that's weird
2020-05-20 19:06:25	~tiwesdaeg	I just expanded the let's encrupt cert to add qd.libraryoferis.org
2020-05-20 19:06:47	~tiwesdaeg	is it a timezone thing?
2020-05-20 19:08:50	kayw	maybe?
2020-05-20 19:10:41	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't updated av98 in a while. The site just crashed my version
2020-05-20 19:10:54	kayw	yikes
2020-05-20 19:11:01	kayw	lemme try connecting through bombadillo
2020-05-20 19:11:13	kayw	and it connected fine
2020-05-20 19:11:18	kayw	that's strange
2020-05-20 19:11:37	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I tried bombadillo as well and no issue
2020-05-20 19:11:50	kayw	guess it's just an av-98 issue
2020-05-20 19:11:52	~tiwesdaeg	maybe try av98 and an hour and a half
2020-05-20 19:11:57	~tiwesdaeg	castor is fine too
2020-05-20 19:14:25	kayw	yeah sure
2020-05-20 19:14:30	kayw	i'll let you know then
2020-05-20 19:27:41	@julienxx	Castor does not really check certificates validity, just présence for now
2020-05-20 20:41:38	~tiwesdaeg	woo, I did it! built firefox esr
2020-05-20 20:41:50	~tiwesdaeg	now I'm trying 74
2020-05-20 20:44:44	kayw	tiwesdaeg, av-98 connected without any issues now
2020-05-20 20:50:25	@tomasino	Yay
2020-05-20 20:51:51	mk270	hello - would anyone be willing and able to help me write a server-torture test for gemini?
2020-05-20 21:03:25	~tiwesdaeg	awesome, thanks!
2020-05-20 22:29:16	styan	mk270: Sure, if I can, why not.
2020-05-20 22:46:30	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-20 22:56:01	▬▬▶	quinnj has joined #gemini
2020-05-21 01:21:47		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-21 02:55:37	makeworld	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/commit/1066d39125a8bff334c63fe3abc50fc3f45fb837#commitcomment-39320242
2020-05-21 02:56:01	makeworld	Opinions on the Floodgap license? There's some discussion there ^^, about how Jetforce is using it
2020-05-21 02:56:18	makeworld	I don't like it much at the moment but I'm open to changing my mind
2020-05-21 02:56:46	makeworld	I only saw it for the first time in Gemini, several gemini software projects I've seen have used it
2020-05-21 02:59:42	kayw	why would he not want jetforce to be redistributable? im so confused
2020-05-21 03:00:21	kayw	i use jetforce myself, and i might just switch to molly-brown depending on how this all goes down
2020-05-21 03:00:25	makeworld	Yeah I didn't get it either, that's why I asked. We'll see what the response is
2020-05-21 03:12:11	kayw	I pretty much feel the same way as ddevault, "I don't think this is a good contribution to the growing Gemini ecosystem under these license terms, and I'm disappointed in your choice."
2020-05-21 03:45:59		erin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-21 04:13:49	epoch	anyone using multipart responses?
2020-05-21 06:31:56	bard	I haven't set up a gemini server yet, but I'm glad to know to avoid jetforce I guess
2020-05-21 09:17:53	@tomasino	I don't see why it matters. It's still free to use. It won't be bundled into anything that can be done. Fine
2020-05-21 09:29:39	@tomasino	Reading it more... It has provisions where it can be bundled and sold too
2020-05-21 09:30:03	@tomasino	You just can't sell it specifically. It's a rather weak license
2020-05-21 09:30:33	@tomasino	CC-BY-NC gets almost the same goals but with better international legal protections
2020-05-21 09:30:42	@tomasino	But whatever
2020-05-21 11:25:25	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-21 11:34:35		xq has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-21 11:35:22	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-21 12:30:46	bard	simple as wanting to use all free software for me personally, so if it breakes any of the four freedoms I'd rather avoid it. I don't have to think about it too much beyond that
2020-05-21 12:49:41	~tiwesdaeg	jetforce was nice in that it was very to install with pip
2020-05-21 12:50:00	~tiwesdaeg	that helped with adoption
2020-05-21 12:50:16	~tiwesdaeg	I never did get cgi working the way I wanted though
2020-05-21 13:08:17	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-05-21 13:15:29	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-21 13:28:43	makeworld	Yeah, I'm still using jetforce, I like it. It was easy to install, featureful,and I like python
2020-05-21 13:28:50	makeworld	But now I'm a bit conflicted
2020-05-21 13:42:56	⚡	tiwesdaeg bashes rust with a hammer
2020-05-21 13:43:00	~tiwesdaeg	see, it fits
2020-05-21 13:48:50		quinnj has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-21 14:23:52	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: H1 lines aren't displaying for me on the current version of castor
2020-05-21 14:45:01	@julienxx	tiwesdaeg: could you try by moving your settings file for a test? Seems to work for me but I’ll recheck
2020-05-21 14:47:36	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: I can now see the H1
2020-05-21 14:47:50	~tiwesdaeg	I copied your settings.toml this morning
2020-05-21 14:48:14	~tiwesdaeg	I also tried making the H1 section look like the H2 section
2020-05-21 14:48:20	~tiwesdaeg	it still did not display
2020-05-21 14:48:25	makeworld	Anyone have an idea for how to send two bits of data in Gemini? Like if I want to send a string that refers to a specific file, using CGI. You can call the CGI binary with `binary?filename`, but then users can't send a string as a query and still have the binary know what file is being referred to
2020-05-21 14:48:40	makeworld	Idk if that makes sense
2020-05-21 14:50:58	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-05-21 14:53:28	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: are you trying to send two pieces of information with one QUERY_STRING?
2020-05-21 14:54:07	makeworld	Basically, but the problem is I want the user to type the second piece, so I cant do something like `?first=foo&second=bar`
2020-05-21 14:54:39	@tomasino	i'm sorry, really not familiar with how gemini cgi is supposed to function 
2020-05-21 14:54:47	makeworld	Using a full server could easily do this, but I was trying to write it for CGI originally so people wouldn't have to run multiple servers
2020-05-21 14:54:55	makeworld	CGI is just about calling a binary
2020-05-21 14:55:04	~tiwesdaeg	can you store first somehow and call it up again?
2020-05-21 14:55:24	~tiwesdaeg	like a tmp file that will be deleted
2020-05-21 14:55:59	makeworld	Yeah I thought about that, maybe I can? The problem is that there may be other requests in between the first and second one. Possibly even by the same IP address (multiple people under the same NAT)
2020-05-21 14:56:51	~tiwesdaeg	I guess this is where user certs may come in handy
2020-05-21 14:57:12	makeworld	Yeah, definitely would need to use a full server then
2020-05-21 14:57:41	makeworld	Lmk if you think of another way to do this though
2020-05-21 14:58:45	~tiwesdaeg	I don't know much abut the gemini user search entry
2020-05-21 14:59:00	⚡	tiwesdaeg goes to look at gus
2020-05-21 15:00:36	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: could the user entry come first?
2020-05-21 15:02:03	makeworld	I don't think so.. I'll look into it
2020-05-21 15:02:21	makeworld	Maybe I'll just come clean.. I'm trying to make a comment system for Gemini
2020-05-21 15:02:32	makeworld	But I think a server will be needed
2020-05-21 15:04:16	makeworld	I'm working on a like system too though, and that will work fine with just CGI
2020-05-21 15:14:07	~tiwesdaeg	any good examples on how to do a text entry query link?
2020-05-21 15:55:56	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Like this? `=> somefile?queryhere Link text`
2020-05-21 15:56:06	makeworld	Or do you on the server
2020-05-21 15:56:11	makeworld	*you mean
2020-05-21 16:00:36	~tiwesdaeg	so, on gus, when you click the search link, it pops up a query entry box
2020-05-21 16:00:44	~tiwesdaeg	to get user input
2020-05-21 16:01:03	~tiwesdaeg	How does one trigger that action?
2020-05-21 16:01:18	~tiwesdaeg	in a .gmi file
2020-05-21 16:28:00	jba	it's a response code, so that link triggers a 1 response from the server
2020-05-21 16:28:12	jba	and the client knows to ask for input
2020-05-21 16:33:25	~tiwesdaeg	ahh
2020-05-21 16:33:50	⚡	tiwesdaeg goes to play with response codes
2020-05-21 16:52:22	makeworld	Yeah it's code 10
2020-05-21 16:52:40	makeworld	Anyway I got likes working, come try it out! I'll release the code soon
2020-05-21 16:52:42	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq:1965/gemlog/2020-05-21-first.gmi
2020-05-21 16:52:51	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-05-21-first.gmi
2020-05-21 16:53:37	makeworld	Let me know it works for gives an error, etc
2020-05-21 16:58:34	~tiwesdaeg	I was able to like it with castor
2020-05-21 17:00:27	~tiwesdaeg	so, one thing I miss about geomyidae the gopher server, you can have any "gophermap" be dynamic content
2020-05-21 17:00:57	~tiwesdaeg	so, if you have an index.cgi, the server will default to that as the main gophermap
2020-05-21 17:01:30	~tiwesdaeg	all the existing gemini servers use the separate cgi-bin folder type method
2020-05-21 17:02:18	~tiwesdaeg	so like, I can't display the current discordian date using ddate in the index.gmi file for libraryoferis.org
2020-05-21 17:03:02	~tiwesdaeg	I'd either have to have some entry page that links to the main page in something like /cgi-bin/index.cgi
2020-05-21 17:03:28	~tiwesdaeg	or have some external script write over the file with new information each day
2020-05-21 17:03:57	~tiwesdaeg	gophernicus allowed executing scripts in the gophermap as well with the = line
2020-05-21 17:04:37	~tiwesdaeg	maybe this can all be done with forwarding/proxy stuff?
2020-05-21 17:04:45	~tiwesdaeg	at least to maintain a clean url
2020-05-21 17:17:45	makeworld	Hmm yeah you'd have to forward maybe
2020-05-21 17:17:52	makeworld	Also yay it worked!
2020-05-21 17:19:02	@julienxx	Please don’t make likes happen ^^
2020-05-21 17:24:42	~tiwesdaeg	we can just rename likes to something else
2020-05-21 17:49:50	@julienxx	No please do whatever you want! Likes and other vanity metrics destroyed the online society but that’s cool :p
2020-05-21 17:51:21	⚡	tiwesdaeg upvotes this
2020-05-21 17:52:01	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: another bug/not bug
2020-05-21 17:52:19	⚡	julienxx likes
2020-05-21 17:52:37	~tiwesdaeg	castor does not handle this well gemini://tilde.pink/~tiwesdaeg/
2020-05-21 17:52:43	makeworld	What makes it bad? I'm open to hearing about it
2020-05-21 17:53:02	~tiwesdaeg	the color codes only partially work
2020-05-21 17:53:17	~tiwesdaeg	av98 and bombadillo display it correctly
2020-05-21 17:53:21	makeworld	I thought it's different because it's not a social media feed, it's just a way to show you enjoy it. I guess it makes people petty though?
2020-05-21 17:53:44	~tiwesdaeg	social media concept is all about user generated content
2020-05-21 17:53:44	@julienxx	makeworld: sorry I was just joking :)
2020-05-21 17:53:57	~tiwesdaeg	so, a like is part of that
2020-05-21 17:54:20	~tiwesdaeg	I think it's fun
2020-05-21 17:54:32	~tiwesdaeg	now make upvotes and downvotes ;P
2020-05-21 17:54:38	makeworld	julienxx: Oh really? Ok
2020-05-21 17:54:50	makeworld	tiwesdaeg That's where I draw the line :)
2020-05-21 17:55:06	⚡	tiwesdaeg downvotes line drawing
2020-05-21 17:55:43	@julienxx	Haha
2020-05-21 17:55:44	⚡	makeworld retweet "Can you believe this guy"
2020-05-21 17:56:03	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like breaking castor is my new hobby
2020-05-21 17:59:40	@julienxx	tiwesdaeg: I’ll have a look my color parsing code is far from complete
2020-05-21 18:00:40	@julienxx	And there are too many ways to declare a color in ANSI
2020-05-21 18:02:34	@tomasino	i love the idea of client-side only hearts
2020-05-21 18:02:42	@tomasino	like bookmarks in the wild
2020-05-21 18:02:43	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-21 18:02:50	makeworld	Wdym?
2020-05-21 18:03:02	@tomasino	if you hit a page that's cool, then click the heart
2020-05-21 18:03:15	@tomasino	when you run across a link to it later, it can show up with a happy heart next to it
2020-05-21 18:03:47	~tiwesdaeg	so, something the gopher client would keep track of
2020-05-21 18:03:56	@tomasino	or gemini, yep
2020-05-21 18:03:59	~tiwesdaeg	basically a bookmark
2020-05-21 18:04:12	@tomasino	yep! it could even be a form of bookmarks
2020-05-21 18:04:20	~tiwesdaeg	make it a gem
2020-05-21 18:04:20	@tomasino	but just "favs"
2020-05-21 18:04:53	@tomasino	bookmarks have a contextual meaning to people and get used a certain way
2020-05-21 18:05:12	@tomasino	even though the implementation is almost the same, just "heart"ing something or liking it, has another context
2020-05-21 18:05:16	~tiwesdaeg	💎
2020-05-21 18:05:18	@julienxx	That would be nice!
2020-05-21 18:05:19	@tomasino	yeah
2020-05-21 18:05:25	@tomasino	this this is a gem
2020-05-21 18:05:26	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-21 18:05:30	~tiwesdaeg	there's a UTF-8 character gem stone
2020-05-21 18:05:44	@tomasino	when i'm reading phlogs i wish i had something like that
2020-05-21 18:05:55	@tomasino	i don't want to bookmark interesting ones, but i do want to mark them as particularly interesting
2020-05-21 18:06:03	@tomasino	sometimes, weeks later, i may reference one in my own writing
2020-05-21 18:06:18	~tiwesdaeg	💎log
2020-05-21 18:06:22	@tomasino	!!
2020-05-21 18:06:22	~tiwesdaeg	just tring it out
2020-05-21 18:06:30	~tiwesdaeg	s/tring/trying
2020-05-21 18:06:47	~tiwesdaeg	it's a great character
2020-05-21 18:08:31	~tiwesdaeg	I need to change my locale info on tilde.pink
2020-05-21 18:08:41	@julienxx	client-side would b ereally neat as it would remove the tracking part
2020-05-21 18:09:36	@tomasino	yeah
2020-05-21 18:10:03	@tomasino	save it in XDG_CACHE for fun & profit
2020-05-21 18:11:00	~tiwesdaeg	brb
2020-05-21 18:11:04		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-21 18:12:45	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-05-21 18:12:45	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-05-21 18:13:05	~tiwesdaeg	hmm
2020-05-21 18:13:14	~tiwesdaeg	why does netbsd wlays have to make it hard
2020-05-21 18:13:32	~tiwesdaeg	locale is set to UTF-8 in my shell
2020-05-21 18:13:45	~tiwesdaeg	💎
2020-05-21 18:13:51	~tiwesdaeg	ok, that did work
2020-05-21 18:14:17	~tiwesdaeg	I see a ? in the backlog
2020-05-21 18:19:31	@tomasino	it works here
2020-05-21 18:19:40	@tomasino	utf in irc is a couple layers of term settings
2020-05-21 18:19:42	@tomasino	and locale
2020-05-21 18:21:11	~tiwesdaeg	I think a lot of linux distributions default to utf-8 for everything
2020-05-21 18:21:31	~tiwesdaeg	my debian weechat instance didn't need anything
2020-05-21 18:21:47	~tiwesdaeg	openbsd/netbsd, they default to ascii
2020-05-21 18:21:53	⚡	wgreenhouse is here through emacs which is mostly utf-8 all the things
2020-05-21 18:22:07	wgreenhouse	and has good ol' C-x 8 RET for entering emoji
2020-05-21 18:22:26	~tiwesdaeg	I just changed gemlog to 💎long on my 💎log ;P
2020-05-21 18:22:43	~tiwesdaeg	man, so many typos
2020-05-21 18:23:42	~tiwesdaeg	glowing-bear gives me a nice purple gemstone emoji
2020-05-21 18:27:39	@tomasino	hah
2020-05-21 18:27:41	@tomasino	it's blue here
2020-05-21 18:28:08	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QQV.png  
2020-05-21 18:28:19	wgreenhouse	blue here as well (emacs on termux, so presumably using whatever the heck android emoji font)
2020-05-21 18:29:17	login	blue here too
2020-05-21 18:29:44	login	emoji hieroglyphics are not standardised it seems
2020-05-21 18:30:10	login	it could diamond, gem or ruby
2020-05-21 18:30:17	wgreenhouse	indeed. and on X11 (Symbola font) I think it'd be a monochrome outline
2020-05-21 18:30:28	login	no emoji grammar either
2020-05-21 18:30:48	wgreenhouse	true. like most creoles, that will accrete over time
2020-05-21 18:33:34	kayw	blue for me too
2020-05-21 18:36:39	~tiwesdaeg	very pretty
2020-05-21 18:37:29	~tiwesdaeg	in castor it's displayed as the monochrome outline
2020-05-21 18:38:02	wgreenhouse	probably Symbola or one of the other usual ttf fonts that covers this range
2020-05-21 18:38:53	~tiwesdaeg	well, we don't have inline images, but we have utf-8
2020-05-21 18:38:54	login	the emoji is not stored in the font right?
2020-05-21 18:39:36	wgreenhouse	login: it's a utf-8 codepoint, which whatever environment is responsible for coming up with a font that can display it
2020-05-21 18:40:08	wgreenhouse	through whatever fallback mechanism (e.g. fontconfig on *nix/x11)
2020-05-21 18:40:36	~tiwesdaeg	it looks like glowing-bear uses emojione support
2020-05-21 18:41:27	wgreenhouse	the gem is 0x1F48E, "GEM STONE"
2020-05-21 18:43:59	wgreenhouse	hah, this termux/emacs can display BAGUETTE BREAD but not BAGEL
2020-05-21 18:44:39	~tiwesdaeg	we want bagels now
2020-05-21 18:46:00	~tiwesdaeg	I can't see 🥯 either
2020-05-21 18:48:03	wgreenhouse	it's a fairly new emoji
2020-05-21 18:49:11	~tiwesdaeg	I installed symbola and now I can see 🥖
2020-05-21 18:49:16	wgreenhouse	heheh
2020-05-21 18:49:30	~tiwesdaeg	bagel is still a box of fun
2020-05-21 18:49:52	wgreenhouse	in fonts that can display it, it's usually a bagel sandwich with cream cheese
2020-05-21 18:50:06	wgreenhouse	but as login says, the visual "hieroglyphs" are not standard
2020-05-21 18:50:45	kayw	emojis break weechat for me https://i.salejandro.me/oiirif.png
2020-05-21 18:52:02	~tiwesdaeg	I wonder if that's your terminal displaying emojis
2020-05-21 18:52:43	kayw	it could be kitty but idk
2020-05-21 18:52:52	kayw	lemme try with alacritty really quick
2020-05-21 18:52:52	wgreenhouse	yeah, weechat itself shouldn't care about utf-8
2020-05-21 18:53:12	kayw	wow its even worse in alacritty
2020-05-21 18:53:24	wgreenhouse	haha
2020-05-21 18:53:31	kayw	https://i.salejandro.me/ETUubl.png
2020-05-21 18:54:04	~tiwesdaeg	xfce4-term isn't displaying them as emoji, just monochrome font
2020-05-21 18:54:31	wgreenhouse	probably linking against fontconfig, and deciding symbola is eligible to display them
2020-05-21 18:54:48	wgreenhouse	I think that is even hard coded in some distros
2020-05-21 18:55:45	wgreenhouse	this is important stuff to know about, in case you are in some project where people use emojis in their git config messages
2020-05-21 18:55:50	wgreenhouse	*commit messages
2020-05-21 18:59:58	ℹ 	tiwesdaeg has changed topic for #gemini from "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/" to "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/"
2020-05-21 19:00:04	~tiwesdaeg	flair
2020-05-21 19:03:15	wgreenhouse	my acid test for terminals is the emacs HELLO file which does a bunch of langauge scripts
2020-05-21 19:03:23	wgreenhouse	it should also do emoji now
2020-05-21 19:03:27	kayw	oh?
2020-05-21 19:03:39	kayw	oh god emojis have ruined weechat
2020-05-21 19:03:42	wgreenhouse	<f1> h in emacs
2020-05-21 19:03:54	kayw	with `emacs -nw`?
2020-05-21 19:03:58	wgreenhouse	yep
2020-05-21 19:04:04	wgreenhouse	some terminals break amusingly on the RTL scripts like Arabic and Hebrew
2020-05-21 19:04:13	wgreenhouse	like the whole terminal gets f'ed up if that's not supported
2020-05-21 19:04:16	wgreenhouse	it's great
2020-05-21 19:04:26	kayw	oh shit im using doom so it got rebound
2020-05-21 19:04:43	wgreenhouse	kayw: the command is view-hello-file
2020-05-21 19:05:11	kayw	well, kitty seemed to handle it well
2020-05-21 19:05:21	wgreenhouse	including the right to left scripts?
2020-05-21 19:05:27	kayw	yeah
2020-05-21 19:05:30	wgreenhouse	nice
2020-05-21 19:05:38	kayw	the docs for kitty include examples for RTL sscripts
2020-05-21 19:08:22	~tiwesdaeg	I had issues with kitty and terminfo on netbsd ;(
2020-05-21 19:08:46	wgreenhouse	yeah, emoji is possibly a separate yak the devs haven't shaved yet
2020-05-21 19:09:14	@ben	working emoji just means you have proper unicode support
2020-05-21 19:09:22	@ben	nothing to shave, it works if your unicode works
2020-05-21 19:09:54	wgreenhouse	kayw: you can try doing emoji nonsense in emacs -nw too and see if bad stuff happens. ucs-insert is the type arbitrary unicode command
2020-05-21 19:10:05	wgreenhouse	but I suspect the terminal is to blame rather than weechat
2020-05-21 19:10:26	wgreenhouse	ask for BAGUETTE BREAD for example
2020-05-21 20:03:02		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-21 20:12:40	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-21 21:07:24	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-05-21 21:11:38	anton	I think I asked before but does anyone have recommendations for gemini server software?
2020-05-21 21:21:05	mk270	anton: gemserv (and i say that as the author of a different server :) )
2020-05-21 21:45:21		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-21 21:53:39	admicos	I never realized _how_ much GTK on Windows is a pain
2020-05-21 21:54:01	admicos	like, you can do the majority of the porting work quickly, but the last 2% of the details just never work
2020-05-21 21:54:04	admicos	example: https://files.ecmelberk.com/img/1590097932.png
2020-05-21 21:54:20	anton	mk270: I can't find anything about it. is there a web/gopher site?
2020-05-21 21:57:42	~tiwesdaeg	anton: I agree, gemserv has a bunch of features
2020-05-21 21:57:59	~tiwesdaeg	anton: it has a gemini site
2020-05-21 21:58:24	anton	link?
2020-05-21 21:58:57	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://80h.dev/projects/gemserv/
2020-05-21 21:59:02	~tiwesdaeg	I was digging it up
2020-05-21 22:00:47	anton	ty
2020-05-21 22:07:44	~tiwesdaeg	Np
2020-05-21 22:19:54	@julienxx	admicos: I think you need to install a standard gtk theme like adwaita
2020-05-21 22:20:42	admicos	when trying adwaita, the window buttons worked (close, minimize, etc) but the back, forward, etc didn't work
2020-05-21 22:21:56	@julienxx	Weird, I had this issue for Castor and adding theme was usually enough
2020-05-21 22:49:01	@tomasino	adwaita is a neat name
2020-05-21 22:49:08	@tomasino	it reminds me of something i can't quite think of
2020-05-21 23:15:13		xq has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-22 00:02:32	▬▬▶	makeworld2 has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 00:03:39		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-22 00:03:39	ℹ 	makeworld2 is now known as makeworld
2020-05-22 01:50:44	▬▬▶	quinnj has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 02:19:25		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-22 04:05:51	anton	do any tildes have a gemini client on them already
2020-05-22 04:27:55	styan	anton: A few clients were installed on tilde.black recently.
2020-05-22 04:28:43	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 04:31:14	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 04:34:44	anton	ok i got gemini://antonmcclure.com up
2020-05-22 04:35:04	anton	is there any documentation on how to make a site for it?
2020-05-22 04:37:01	styan	There is text/gemini mime type described in the spec.
2020-05-22 04:37:15	kayw	it's super simple to understand
2020-05-22 04:44:15	styan	The spec is here: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/spec-spec.txt
2020-05-22 04:45:19	anton	ty
2020-05-22 04:46:03	anton	sorry if i'm asking stupid questions... new to gemini and don't exactly know where everything for it is
2020-05-22 04:47:34	styan	The site in the channel's topic is the main site for the protocol.
2020-05-22 04:48:16	styan	There are more resources it links to on the root page.
2020-05-22 04:48:47	anton	ok
2020-05-22 04:48:56	anton	I'll start working on the site tomorrow
2020-05-22 04:50:57	styan	I do not think you are asking stupid questions, if that helps :-)
2020-05-22 04:52:57	styan	Normal protocol and file-format specifications are separate, so unless you read the spec you may not assume that it contains a file-format.
2020-05-22 04:53:10	styan	s/Normal/Normally/
2020-05-22 04:53:18	styan	In my opinion, at least.
2020-05-22 06:57:20		jeffpc has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-22 06:58:28	▬▬▶	jeffpc has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 07:38:19	epoch	hrm. either I have an old version or I've found two bugs.
2020-05-22 07:38:25	epoch	(of castor)
2020-05-22 07:52:53	epoch	mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. to make an account and a whole issue, or just dump bug here, or in PM?
2020-05-22 07:56:47	epoch	castor gemini://127.0.0.1:12345/ still tries to get the page from port 1965 instead of the expected port 12345
2020-05-22 07:57:10	@julienxx	Are you using the latest version?
2020-05-22 07:57:14	epoch	I think so
2020-05-22 07:57:32	@julienxx	I fixed that like yesterday I think
2020-05-22 07:57:34	epoch	did a git pull and rm and make and make install
2020-05-22 07:57:38	epoch	hrm.
2020-05-22 07:57:46	epoch	I thought I had heard something about it being fixed.
2020-05-22 07:58:22	⚡	epoch deletes all copies of castor
2020-05-22 07:58:44	epoch	I might have needed a "make clean" before make again
2020-05-22 07:59:00	epoch	heh. now to wait for a full recompile
2020-05-22 07:59:23	epoch	the other one was an empty response from the server
2020-05-22 07:59:47	epoch	I tested with ncat --ssl -l -p 1965, then when castor sent the URL, I pressed ctrl+D in ncat
2020-05-22 08:01:11	epoch	I'd give a backtrace, but it should be easy to reproduce if it isn't my fault for having an old version
2020-05-22 08:01:35	@julienxx	This should still fail in the last version
2020-05-22 08:03:05	@julienxx	I think I see why it would crash
2020-05-22 08:03:15	@julienxx	Thanks for the report!
2020-05-22 08:03:28	epoch	np
2020-05-22 08:04:09	epoch	I found the empty-response one by accident when my server had a bug in it
2020-05-22 08:04:26	epoch	bugs helping find bugs
2020-05-22 08:07:12	epoch	💎
2020-05-22 08:07:43	epoch	♊
2020-05-22 08:09:44		quinnj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-22 08:11:51	▬▬▶	quinnj has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 08:23:19	epoch	holy scrap, rustc was using like, 118% CPU, which, since 1 is 100% of 1 CPU, is a SHITLOAD
2020-05-22 08:23:43	epoch	11800%
2020-05-22 08:24:46	epoch	oooooh. I know what I did wrong.
2020-05-22 08:24:58	epoch	I didn't read the error message from git when I did "git pull"
2020-05-22 08:28:20	epoch	yeah, port number thing working now. still doing the 'called `Option::unwrap()` on a `None` value' thing on empty reponse
2020-05-22 08:34:46	epoch	gemini://thebackupbox.net/radio :P
2020-05-22 08:34:48	@julienxx	Yep it’s trying to find a CLRF and crashing I suppose
2020-05-22 08:36:37	epoch	gemini://thebackupbox.net/now-playing.txt
2020-05-22 08:45:20	epoch	when should gemini clients give up on a large file?
2020-05-22 08:46:04	epoch	ncat --ssl -klp 1965 -c 'yes'
2020-05-22 09:52:43	epoch	hrm. with all the problems of text/* line endings, nobody's suggested application/gemini instead of using text/gemini
2020-05-22 09:52:48	epoch	(so far that I've read)
2020-05-22 10:12:07	styan	I am still unsure about how to approach literate code, but I have my Retro Forth Glitch implementation on my tilde.black gemini directory.
2020-05-22 10:12:39	styan	gemini://tilde.black/users/styan/retro/glitch.retro
2020-05-22 10:13:53	styan	It actually compiles glitch bytecode, to retro's bytecode.
2020-05-22 10:15:34	styan	Note, it outputs an 8khz u8 stream to the standard output.
2020-05-22 10:16:25	styan	Also, I don't know what kind of (non-custom) tools can turn that into audio.
2020-05-22 10:27:59	xwindows	styan: something | ffmpeg -f u8 -ar 8000 -ac 1 -i - -acodec pcm_u8 pcm.wav
2020-05-22 10:28:33	xwindows	where `something` is your mystery audio-producing code.
2020-05-22 10:29:27	xwindows	and `pcm.wav` is the RIFF WAVE output filename.
2020-05-22 10:30:29	styan	I should put that in the file as a note.
2020-05-22 10:30:47	styan	I have been using my own audio tools for a while.
2020-05-22 10:54:13	styan	I also added an example using NetBSD's audioplay(1).
2020-05-22 10:55:07	styan	aucat(1) did not do well with mono input.
2020-05-22 10:55:37	styan	xwindows: Thanks for the input.
2020-05-22 11:00:23	xwindows	styan: actually: something | ffmpeg -f u8 -ar 8000 -ac 1 -i - -acodec copy pcm.wav
2020-05-22 11:00:58	xwindows	should work better if you need to change the sample format/frequency/channel count often
2020-05-22 11:02:09	xwindows	(Note that I just changed `-acodec pcm_u8` to `-acodec copy`)
2020-05-22 11:03:08	styan	Maybe I should just have it output an Au stream.
2020-05-22 11:13:52	styan	I also added aplay(1) and paplay(1) to the examples.  I am always unthrilled to see "[options]" in a man-page.
2020-05-22 12:04:10	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 13:34:46	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 17:59:25		quinnj has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-22 19:26:48		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-22 19:30:40	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 20:49:15		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-22 20:50:24	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 20:51:17		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-22 20:51:42	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 21:16:42		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-22 21:16:58	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 21:17:04		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-22 21:17:44	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 21:20:10		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-22 21:36:31	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/"
2020-05-22 21:36:31	ℹ 	Topic set by tiwesdaeg (~tiwesdaeg@tilde.pink) on Thu, 21 May 2020 18:59:58
2020-05-22 21:39:25	@tomasino	I'm on mobile and can't recall.. can someone drop a Gemini proxy link in here for me
2020-05-22 21:39:49	@tomasino	Unless we have a mobile client I can install on my phone without having to build it
2020-05-22 21:42:08	kayw	tomasino: https://portal.mozz.us/
2020-05-22 21:42:15	@tomasino	Danke
2020-05-22 21:42:19	kayw	np
2020-05-22 21:43:10	@tomasino	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/tilde.black:1965/users/fox/
2020-05-22 21:43:24	@tomasino	:( sad render
2020-05-22 21:43:58	kayw	damn
2020-05-22 21:44:06	kayw	i wonder how mine renders
2020-05-22 21:44:24	kayw	oh it renders very nicely
2020-05-22 21:44:25	@tomasino	It looks like it's the ``` alt
2020-05-22 21:44:34	@tomasino	Throwing it off
2020-05-22 21:44:43	@tomasino	Not in spec yet
2020-05-22 21:44:47	kayw	yeah sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt
2020-05-22 21:45:14	@tomasino	Brb! Reading to a boy
2020-05-22 21:49:09	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-22 21:59:27	@tomasino	Back
2020-05-22 22:01:10	jan6	lol maybe make a FAQ page and put it in the topic, "web proxies at these addresses, blablabla"
2020-05-22 22:04:00	@tomasino	https://proxy.vulpes.one/gemini/tilde.black:1965/users/fox/
2020-05-22 22:04:32	@tomasino	The links are on the Gemini page hosted at circumlunar, but it's not up to date on the web version
2020-05-22 22:04:42	@tomasino	I was in a catch 22
2020-05-22 22:05:05	@tomasino	This proxy seems to just ignore ``` blocks completely
2020-05-22 22:05:48	@tomasino	Or maybe it's the alt text again
2020-05-22 22:05:51	@tomasino	Not sure
2020-05-22 22:06:00	kayw	i think it's just ``` blocks
2020-05-22 22:09:27	@tomasino	Same issue
2020-05-22 22:09:40	@tomasino	They're checking the whole line for only ```
2020-05-22 22:09:46	@tomasino	Not the first 3 characters
2020-05-22 22:10:06	@tomasino	In this case the block is not rendered at all
2020-05-22 22:10:12	@tomasino	Interesting
2020-05-22 22:11:03	@tomasino	The first proxy doesn't recognize the line as valid and ends up inverting the code fence
2020-05-22 22:11:18	@tomasino	The second proxy recognizes the line but hides the block
2020-05-22 22:11:24	@tomasino	Fascinating
2020-05-23 00:38:05	ℹ 	anelki is now known as f00
2020-05-23 00:38:19	ℹ 	f00 is now known as anelki
2020-05-23 00:56:16	epoch	any gemini clients have fragment_id support?
2020-05-23 00:56:57	epoch	text/plain has a specification for what a fragment id could do
2020-05-23 00:58:36	epoch	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5147
2020-05-23 01:29:53		Ernoz has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-23 01:30:33	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 01:31:31		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-23 01:31:46	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 03:01:52	epoch	for syntax highlighting you could do multipart with content types like: text/c or test/perl (file --mime-type something.c) will output text/x-c
2020-05-23 03:08:29	styan	I wonder, should I tag blocks with "code-$lang" or just "code"?
2020-05-23 03:11:38	styan	epoch: If you did not see, I wrote an interpreter for that RPN bytebeat thing we talked about a few days ago.
2020-05-23 03:11:43	makeworld	Can someone give me the TL;DR about the latest spec change emails
2020-05-23 03:12:02	makeworld	There's 58 new emails in that thread for me to read through :0
2020-05-23 03:15:40	kayw	I myself haven't even began to scratch the surface of those emails
2020-05-23 03:16:19	@ben	the gemini list is so lively
2020-05-23 03:17:58	makeworld	Yeah
2020-05-23 03:18:10	makeworld	That has its pros and cons I guess
2020-05-23 03:18:20	makeworld	Anyway, if anyone has read them I'd be happy for an update
2020-05-23 03:19:42	@ben	i haven't posted anything to the list yet
2020-05-23 03:20:08	@ben	and if there are more than like 5 messages i usually end up just marking them all read lol
2020-05-23 03:21:27	styan	This appears to be the result: https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/000969.html
2020-05-23 03:23:11	styan	Line-ending in text/gemini will be /\r?\n/, responses will be separated by exactly one space, SNI is manditory.
2020-05-23 03:23:21	styan	s/ending/&s/
2020-05-23 03:23:37	@ben	i've been getting some emails from people responding to tildegit issues
2020-05-23 03:24:10	@ben	unfortunately gitea doesn't support incoming mail handling yet
2020-05-23 03:24:30	makeworld	styan: Thanks for digging for that! Helpful
2020-05-23 03:24:46	makeworld	Those all sound like good changes, I'm glad he came around to allowing just LF too
2020-05-23 03:25:39	styan	makeworld: I cheated a bit and just clicked solderpunk's responses until I found something interesting.  :-)
2020-05-23 03:25:58	makeworld	Hehe, whatever works
2020-05-23 03:27:27	makeworld	Feels good to mark all 58 emails as read :)
2020-05-23 04:21:53	makeworld	What should I do if I want to host my www site on Github Pages, but my gemini site obv on my personal server
2020-05-23 04:22:17	makeworld	I guess I could switch to using a `gem` subdomain for my Gemini server?
2020-05-23 04:22:18	@ben	www CNAME for user.github.io
2020-05-23 04:22:43	@ben	send @ http redirect to www
2020-05-23 04:22:45	makeworld	Yeah, but not having  the apex domain work on the web would suck
2020-05-23 04:22:55	@ben	just set up a redirect
2020-05-23 04:23:01	makeworld	Like have my personal server send the redirect?
2020-05-23 04:23:41	makeworld	Yeah I guess, and if any content gets popular it should be a big deal, bc redirects are small and I'll set it to be a permanent redirect
2020-05-23 04:23:57	makeworld	And then my gemini site is still first class
2020-05-23 04:24:53		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-23 04:26:30	@ben	yeah redirects are not a big deal
2020-05-23 04:26:46	@ben	people generally redirect from www to non-www and vice versa
2020-05-23 04:27:08		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-23 04:27:28	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 04:32:34	makeworld	Boom, done - thanks
2020-05-23 04:32:49	@ben	lol sure
2020-05-23 04:33:20	styan	I think I am done polishing my first big Retro Forth / Gemini page.
2020-05-23 04:34:05	kayw	oo neat
2020-05-23 04:34:19	kayw	i dont think i've shared mine here but its gemini://salejandro.me
2020-05-23 04:34:24	styan	gemini://tilde.black/styan/users/retro/
2020-05-23 04:35:32	styan	kayw: That is the roundest ASCII-art text.
2020-05-23 04:35:45	kayw	`basic` font in figlet
2020-05-23 04:39:41	styan	I am not quite sure how I feel about literate-programming.
2020-05-23 04:56:19	@tomasino	i think that url should be gemini://tilde.black/users/styan/retro/
2020-05-23 04:57:02	@tomasino	and also, cool
2020-05-23 04:59:36	styan	tomasino: Wow, that is a weird mistake.
2020-05-23 05:00:08	styan	I think I may have been writing too much Forth today, everything is getting flipped around.
2020-05-23 05:01:39		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-23 05:02:51	styan	I am glad you found it interesting though.
2020-05-23 05:08:36	styan	Here are some stats for the gemini page:  23 preformatted blocks, 219 preformatted lines, 84 blank lines, 119 other lines.
2020-05-23 05:29:13	styan	Retro's vm has a C# implementation.  If you run my code with that there would be 3 stack-based VMs running on top of one another.
2020-05-23 05:29:54	styan	How many stack-based VMs could you get to before something overflows?
2020-05-23 08:41:32	jan6	infinite, if done right
2020-05-23 08:45:28	jan6	the text/plain fragment id support thingy seems real cool
2020-05-23 08:45:41	jan6	sure would hope it gets included in some clients
2020-05-23 10:50:16	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 12:03:45	@tomasino	Hmm, I wonder if you could create an infinite loop of two VMs that have each other mounted 
2020-05-23 12:10:15	@tomasino	Fragment id is interesting in Gemini context
2020-05-23 12:11:20	@tomasino	I'm hoping solderpunk makes some decision on code fence alt text soon. I'm using it in places now and is breaking some clients. I'd like to see that settled one way or another
2020-05-23 12:47:43		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-23 13:39:54	jan6	lol
2020-05-23 13:40:02	jan6	lol @ loop, I meant
2020-05-23 14:25:12	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 14:53:03	~tiwesdaeg	jan6 <--> jan6 = boom
2020-05-23 14:54:30	jan6	what
2020-05-23 14:54:44	jan6	"separate jan6 from jan6 to create an explosion"?
2020-05-23 14:54:49	m68k	you heard of splitting an atom?
2020-05-23 14:55:09	jan6	kinda
2020-05-23 14:55:18	jan6	it's hard to do
2020-05-23 15:04:50	@tomasino	nah, it's easy
2020-05-23 15:04:52	@tomasino	atoms do it all the time
2020-05-23 15:05:34	m68k	i love how solderpunk constantly says CR instead of LF and it confuses someone every time
2020-05-23 15:07:30		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-23 15:08:49	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 15:10:19	@tomasino	it's pretty funny
2020-05-23 15:13:01	m68k	"wait we *just* talked about this, why are you insisting we support 40-year-old dead systems and not Linux?"
2020-05-23 15:20:30		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-23 16:15:08	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 16:57:30	makeworld	Lol ik
2020-05-23 17:53:18	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 17:53:52	ℹ 	xq is now known as xq2
2020-05-23 18:17:23		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-23 18:34:49		xq2 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-23 18:35:55	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 18:44:39		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-23 19:00:27	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 19:42:15	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 19:42:15	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-05-23 19:59:38	@julienxx	is gemini.circumlunar.space down or is it just me?
2020-05-23 20:03:30	kayw	uhh, ill check
2020-05-23 20:03:54	kayw	i can connect over https
2020-05-23 20:04:15	kayw	and over gemini
2020-05-23 20:35:27	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 20:45:36	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: works for me over castor
2020-05-23 20:45:41	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 21:17:03		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-23 21:23:52		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-23 21:25:19	makeworld	julienxx: isup.me is a good site to check stuff like this, for http anyway
2020-05-23 21:52:18	@julienxx	Thanks, apparently it had a small downtime just when I tried but it’s now in order :)
2020-05-23 21:54:07	@julienxx	By the way my server (typed-hole.org) and my bouncer will be offline for a week or more as I’ll be moving starting tomorrow so see ya in some days!
2020-05-23 22:07:06	makeworld	Aww the cert is expired
2020-05-23 22:07:51	makeworld	But that's a cool server for it, what are the RPi Zeros doing?
2020-05-23 22:08:38	makeworld	Do you... have them on a HAT connecting to a full RPi? That's crazy
2020-05-23 22:11:41	kayw	yeah, such a hat exists
2020-05-23 22:11:45	kayw	i need to get one myself
2020-05-23 22:11:54	makeworld	Got a link for it? It sounds interesting?
2020-05-23 22:11:57	kayw	do a little screwing around with cluster computing
2020-05-23 22:12:05	kayw	uhh, i forget the name, gimmie a sec
2020-05-23 22:12:27	kayw	you can probably find it by searching for "cluster rpi hat"
2020-05-23 22:12:27	makeworld	What's the point though, clustering with such low powered devices? Like wouldn't just an RPi be enough? I get it just for fun though
2020-05-23 22:12:54	makeworld	kayw: https://clusterhat.com/
2020-05-23 22:12:57	makeworld	I think I got it
2020-05-23 22:13:31	makeworld	Man, that's weird
2020-05-23 22:13:33	makeworld	Cool though ofc
2020-05-23 22:14:39	@julienxx	That’s what I use, pretty cool device! I have finger, gopher, http and the bouncer running on one of each basically
2020-05-23 22:14:57	makeworld	And what about the main Pi?
2020-05-23 22:15:02	@julienxx	I don’t really use the cluster part, more like a little data center at home
2020-05-23 22:15:10	@julienxx	It’s a pi3
2020-05-23 22:15:16	makeworld	Ah, cool
2020-05-23 22:15:20	makeworld	No I meant what runs on it
2020-05-23 22:16:04	@julienxx	I think nothing right now ^^ everything is on the zeroes
2020-05-23 22:16:10	makeworld	I wonder how the perf compares to just running it all on a Pi 3 or 4, or using Docker on them
2020-05-23 22:16:11	makeworld	Oh lol
2020-05-23 22:16:37	@julienxx	Ah yes I have my CLI Gemini client in kiosk mode on the main Pi
2020-05-23 22:18:43	@julienxx	Initially I wanted to do cool clustering stuff on it but then this is what I do at work these days so I preferred to run services the old way for a change... I guess a zero would be enough for everything at the moment :D
2020-05-23 22:19:51	makeworld	If it ain't broke
2020-05-23 22:22:17	@julienxx	It a cool device, too bad it’s Linux only
2020-05-23 22:23:27	@julienxx	One issue with self-hosting on Pi’s is the SD cards though, they tend to break easily
2020-05-23 23:20:24	makeworld	I've *finally* setup a blog on both the web and Gemini...
2020-05-23 23:20:30	makeworld	Now comes the hard part, lol
2020-05-23 23:21:15	▬▬▶	makeworld_ has joined #gemini
2020-05-23 23:25:55	kayw	i need to host my own gopher server and then i'll have everything set up
2020-05-23 23:26:10	kayw	right now im just using .club's gopher hosting
2020-05-23 23:34:00	makeworld	Working on my Gemini comment system now - is it a problem to show the IP address of who's commenting?
2020-05-23 23:34:27	makeworld	They'll have a username too, but I figure showing IP address helps combat impersonation using Unicode tricks, etc
2020-05-23 23:36:01	kayw	maybe not their IP, but some sort of identifier based on their IP?
2020-05-23 23:37:30	kayw	like, take their IP and pass it through base64 or something similar, and their id is the first 5/6 characters
2020-05-23 23:37:34	makeworld	Shortened IP hash, maybe, good thinking
2020-05-23 23:38:10	makeworld	Base64 could work I guess, but I like a hash better because you can just reverse base64
2020-05-23 23:39:11	styan	Also, a full IPv6 address is 39 characters, which is about half the recommended columns for text/gemini.
2020-05-23 23:39:44	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Can you kick makeworld_ ? I think it's some client bug thing, idk
2020-05-23 23:40:10	makeworld	styan: afaik Gemini has no recommended column length, because everything soft wraps
2020-05-23 23:42:35	styan	I thought I read that somewhere, my mind is playing tricks on me.
2020-05-23 23:51:43		makeworld_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-24 00:18:20	▬▬▶	lick has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 00:46:30	▬▬▶	makeworld_ has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 00:51:30		makeworld_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-24 01:37:36	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld:  I could have kicked it from the channel, but not the server.
2020-05-24 01:46:34	▬▬▶	makeworld_ has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 01:47:27	styan	I made something that enables circular pipelines, to see if I could wrap netcat or openssl-s_client around other utilites.
2020-05-24 01:49:43	styan	There is a Gemini example with it: https://tildegit.org/styan/fdwrap/src/branch/master/example-gemini.sh
2020-05-24 01:50:50	styan	Unfortunately it does not work with things as well as I had hoped.
2020-05-24 01:58:13	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Channel's fine
2020-05-24 01:58:33	makeworld	Oh nvm, I see you tried that
2020-05-24 01:58:42	makeworld	Idk why it's there, doesn't matter I guess
2020-05-24 02:12:14		tiwesdaeg has kicked makeworld_ (tiwesdaeg)
2020-05-24 02:12:17	~tiwesdaeg	there you go
2020-05-24 02:29:41	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 03:16:53	lick	ben: are the ~team gemini userdirs currently functional?
2020-05-24 03:17:16	@ben	uh
2020-05-24 03:17:19	@ben	not sure
2020-05-24 03:30:19		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-24 03:32:46	makeworld	Test
2020-05-24 03:33:19	makeworld	K thanks tiwesdae g
2020-05-24 03:34:09	@ben	any ideas on when the software list will be available on http
2020-05-24 03:34:43	@ben	tiwesdaeg: which geminid was the one that supports userdirs
2020-05-24 03:34:58	~tiwesdaeg	gemserv
2020-05-24 03:35:21	@ben	can you link it?
2020-05-24 03:35:32	~tiwesdaeg	Not on my phone
2020-05-24 03:35:37	@ben	the one i'm seeing is gemserve
2020-05-24 03:35:39	@ben	with an e
2020-05-24 03:35:42	@ben	is that the same ?
2020-05-24 03:35:56	~tiwesdaeg	Solderpunk spelled it wrong
2020-05-24 03:36:05	~tiwesdaeg	That's the one
2020-05-24 03:36:20	@ben	oh lol
2020-05-24 03:36:29	@ben	ok i'll try that one out
2020-05-24 03:36:40	~tiwesdaeg	Should compile with rustup stable
2020-05-24 03:36:54	@ben	i don't use rustup on here
2020-05-24 03:37:26	~tiwesdaeg	Hmm, you can if it doesn't compile with the rust package
2020-05-24 03:37:44	~tiwesdaeg	Rustup installs in your user directory
2020-05-24 03:37:51	@ben	yeah i know
2020-05-24 03:37:57	@ben	it takes up crazy amounts of disk space
2020-05-24 03:38:19	~tiwesdaeg	Remove when done ;P
2020-05-24 03:38:29	@ben	ehh i guess
2020-05-24 03:39:11	~tiwesdaeg	There's a branch that allows for CGI in any directory
2020-05-24 03:39:27	~tiwesdaeg	Even an executable index.gmi
2020-05-24 03:39:42	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using it now for tilde.pink
2020-05-24 03:40:41	@ben	it doesn't want to install rustup alongside rust
2020-05-24 03:40:55	@ben	what's stable rust on now?
2020-05-24 03:40:58	@ben	i have 1.41
2020-05-24 03:41:17	@ben	oh huh ok the compilation error is something about the openssl version
2020-05-24 03:42:10	~tiwesdaeg	Yeah, rust and openssl aren't fun
2020-05-24 03:42:50	@ben	downgrading libressl
2020-05-24 03:43:09	@ben	looks like it's expecting libressl 3.0, not 3.1
2020-05-24 03:43:47	~tiwesdaeg	I had that on openbsd
2020-05-24 03:44:21	~tiwesdaeg	I don't like the openssl crate. It's too picky.
2020-05-24 03:44:43	@ben	bleh
2020-05-24 03:45:57	~tiwesdaeg	This is easier that the lisp server
2020-05-24 03:46:15	~tiwesdaeg	S/that/than
2020-05-24 03:46:22	@ben	lol
2020-05-24 03:46:27	~tiwesdaeg	OK, bedtime.
2020-05-24 03:46:31	@ben	cheers
2020-05-24 04:19:33	epoch	what is the dir that people put in their ~? public_gemini?
2020-05-24 04:19:41	epoch	~/.local/var/gemini ?
2020-05-24 04:20:51	epoch	~/public_html seems like a default value you were meant to change that got turned into a defacto-standard
2020-05-24 04:21:09	@ben	public_gemini
2020-05-24 04:21:52	epoch	I usually use /var/[protocol]/ for server-wide, except I use www instead of http...
2020-05-24 04:22:55	epoch	so I have like, /var/{gopher,gemini,ftp,git,www}/
2020-05-24 04:25:00	@ben	yep same
2020-05-24 04:27:11	makeworld	Yeah
2020-05-24 04:27:27	makeworld	I'm so close to getting my comment system working
2020-05-24 04:27:36	makeworld	But I'm also so tired lol
2020-05-24 04:28:12	@ben	bah i can't get gemserv to run
2020-05-24 04:31:48	epoch	I'm using a like, 30-line shell script as my gemini server
2020-05-24 04:32:13	makeworld	Haha perfect
2020-05-24 04:32:13	kayw	i might write my own gemini server, idk
2020-05-24 04:32:16	kayw	i've got the time
2020-05-24 04:32:16	epoch	no home dir support, but it does dynamic pages
2020-05-24 04:32:51	epoch	I'm also using some C programs for some parts of it, which probably makes it shorter. :/
2020-05-24 04:33:04	epoch	and other scripts I made for other reasons..
2020-05-24 04:33:43	wgreenhouse	epoch: which shell? I know zsh has a tcp server built in
2020-05-24 04:33:46	epoch	like "mime-type" script which I made for my httpd to pick the right mime type based on file --mime-type and file extension
2020-05-24 04:33:53	epoch	the "server" part is socat
2020-05-24 04:33:58	⚡	wgreenhouse nods
2020-05-24 04:34:07	epoch	exec socat openssl-listen:1965,certificate=/etc/letsencrypt/https.crt,key=/etc/letsencrypt/keys/https.key.pem,verify=0,fork,reuseaddr exec:/service/gemini/gemini.sh
2020-05-24 04:34:25	epoch	need to swap the cert eventually...
2020-05-24 04:39:22	makeworld	Haha I've used the `file --mime-type` trick before for other stuff
2020-05-24 04:46:29	epoch	git://thebackupbox.net/shell-daemons
2020-05-24 04:46:59	epoch	contains gopherd, httpd, and gemini and some support scripts/source-code
2020-05-24 04:47:46	epoch	still missing stuff and I don't suggest anyone else run it without reading it first.
2020-05-24 04:47:57	makeworld	Omg I got it working
2020-05-24 04:48:21	makeworld	emini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-05-21-first.gmi
2020-05-24 04:48:30	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-05-21-first.gmi
2020-05-24 04:48:36	makeworld	Come try it out, add some comments!
2020-05-24 04:49:27	@ben	nice
2020-05-24 04:49:39	@ben	i still haven't been able to get gemserv running
2020-05-24 04:49:50	makeworld	Code and mailing list announcement with probably be posted tomorrow
2020-05-24 04:49:54	makeworld	Eyy you added one
2020-05-24 04:49:58	makeworld	Glad to see it works!
2020-05-24 04:50:02	epoch	what client has it been tested in?
2020-05-24 04:50:06	makeworld	Sorry about that though
2020-05-24 04:50:17	makeworld	epoch: My thing? Just Bombadillo rn
2020-05-24 04:50:17	@ben	bombadillo
2020-05-24 04:50:27	epoch	the like worked in castor, but commenting seemed to not
2020-05-24 04:50:29	@ben	target/release/gemserv: error while loading shared libraries: libssl.so.47: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
2020-05-24 04:51:36	makeworld	epoch: Uh oh, let me try
2020-05-24 04:51:54	epoch	I might have an old version of castor with how often stuff changes with gemini
2020-05-24 04:52:27	epoch	(git pull said I'm good)
2020-05-24 04:52:58	makeworld	Can confirm castor fails. I will look into this
2020-05-24 04:53:50	styan	Hmm, OpneBSD's vis(1) does not have the `-h' option.
2020-05-24 04:54:01	makeworld	Ugh it looks like Bombadillo doesn't escape query strings but castor does. Castor is correct here
2020-05-24 04:54:49	makeworld	styan: I assume you were using geminiawk? You need to escape your query strings too then
2020-05-24 04:55:26	styan	Yes, it failed to run them though vis(1) to escape it.
2020-05-24 05:01:45	makeworld	Castor works now! :)
2020-05-24 05:03:21	makeworld	And bombadillo still does too! Unless you try and put % signs in your comment
2020-05-24 05:03:43	makeworld	I filed an issue about not escaping the query strings. I'll mention it in my announcement tomorrow
2020-05-24 05:04:45	makeworld	Alright, I'm off
2020-05-24 05:05:24	kayw	cya
2020-05-24 05:10:32	gbmor	i've been playing around with gemini in rust. i like how simple the protocol is. really refreshing.
2020-05-24 05:21:02	@ben	lick: gemserv is up and running on ~team
2020-05-24 05:21:33	@ben	also i've been getting some mails from people trying to respond to issues on tildegit
2020-05-24 05:21:40	@ben	gitea doesn't handle incoming mail yet
2020-05-24 05:40:48	styan	I fixed geminawk(1), the only non-POSIX utility it relies on is a nc(1) with TLS support, or openssl(1) for `s_client'.  So it should run on almost anything, without compiling anything.
2020-05-24 05:41:49	styan	It also grew proxy support a few days ago.
2020-05-24 07:42:50	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 08:27:56	login	hi plugd
2020-05-24 08:31:50	jan	ncgopher now supports gemini queries. finally. i also added gus and houston to the search menu: https://jan.bio/ncgopher-search.png
2020-05-24 09:28:09		plugd has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-24 09:43:22	epoch	am I interpreting the spec correctly when...
2020-05-24 09:44:09	epoch	let's say, page: prompt?prompt%20value returns 10 prompt value
2020-05-24 09:44:29	epoch	the user input would replace prompt%20value in the URI, and then be re-requested?
2020-05-24 09:46:54	styan	That is how I interpreted it.
2020-05-24 09:47:55	styan	It says "separated from the path by a ?", and the "path" does not include the query.
2020-05-24 09:48:35	epoch	was wondering how the comment page on makeworld's site works.
2020-05-24 09:49:01	epoch	since the thing to be commented on is stored in the previous page's query string
2020-05-24 09:49:50	styan	I wonder what would happen if you type just the page's name?
2020-05-24 09:50:13	styan	Oooh.
2020-05-24 09:50:32	styan	It says that the comment is separated from the user name by a space.
2020-05-24 09:51:12	styan	So unless makeworld makes a page with "%20" there will not be any collisions.
2020-05-24 09:52:41	epoch	but, how does it know which page gets the comment?
2020-05-24 09:53:17	styan	That is a good question.  It is a prototype so maybe it is hard-coded.
2020-05-24 09:54:33	styan	I just added a comment on the add-comment script though...
2020-05-24 09:55:53	ℹ 	epoch is now known as `epoch
2020-05-24 10:03:34		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-24 10:05:35	styan	makeworld: I am pretty sure that I can `..' out of your gemini directory...
2020-05-24 10:06:56	styan	gemini://makeworld.gq/../../var/gemini/ is the same as gemini://makeworld.gq/
2020-05-24 10:08:04	login	ooh, that seems like a bug in geminid, to allow that
2020-05-24 10:09:08	styan	I did not try to actually poke around though, because that would be really rude and invasive.
2020-05-24 10:09:52	styan	So maybe the server just resolves the path and sees that it leads to a valid directory.
2020-05-24 10:10:26	styan	That would still be an information leak, but much less of one.
2020-05-24 10:11:28	styan	Also, I left comments on some CGI scripts.
2020-05-24 10:25:17	styan	I am pretty sure makeworld's comment system remembers the last path passed to `add-comment', probably per ip address, and adds the comment to that path.
2020-05-24 10:33:44	login	so it's.... stateful??
2020-05-24 10:34:22	`epoch	it might make sense to pass the target as the PATH_INFO
2020-05-24 10:34:37	styan	login: that is my guess.
2020-05-24 10:34:46	`epoch	like /cgi-bin/add-comment.cgi/target-page
2020-05-24 10:35:08	`epoch	which would return a 10, and the submitted URL would be
2020-05-24 10:35:17	`epoch	like /cgi-bin/add-comment.cgi/target-page?comment%20goes%20here
2020-05-24 10:36:23	styan	The server would have to support that.  I did check by turning off redirects and it, currently, does not do that.
2020-05-24 10:37:25	`epoch	are there any gemini servers that support running CGIs and passing a PATH_INFO to them?
2020-05-24 10:38:46	`epoch	also, that comment posting system is not "indempotent"? I think I'm using that right.
2020-05-24 10:39:09	`epoch	I'm gonna go to bed I think.
2020-05-24 10:43:13	styan	After looking up "indempotent", I think a comment system could only be considered to be that if posting a comment twice were impossible.
2020-05-24 10:44:45	styan	Good night epoch.
2020-05-24 10:53:48	login	so each posting would require both the issuance of an id prior to posting
2020-05-24 10:53:54	login	and a signature of said id with time of issual and expiry
2020-05-24 10:54:06	login	to be checked to ensure a "fake id" was not issued
2020-05-24 10:54:10	login	or reused
2020-05-24 11:01:40	styan	If you are talking about the "indempotent" thing.  From my breif look at the word it means that "repeating the operation will not change the result", so if the operation is posting a comment, and the result is a particular comment being posted, an indempotent comment system would not allow the same operation to post an additional comment.
2020-05-24 11:05:08	styan	The examples I saw were similar to `a |= b' is indempotent, `a += b' is not.  (unless 'b' is zero, of course)
2020-05-24 11:33:45	`epoch	well, like, I could link to a URL that would post a comment, and anyone that opened the URL would create a new comment. Usually with HTTP people avoid doing that and reserve the actions that can change things for POSTs, which can't be directly linked to.
2020-05-24 11:34:19	`epoch	like the gemini search engine might try to spider down a link I put on my gemini site, that would post a comment each time it spiders through it
2020-05-24 11:36:01	`epoch	so, gemini should get a POST-like thing, or should people just not use the GET-like input request for this kind of stuff?
2020-05-24 11:36:14	`epoch	and maybe put a mailto: link for comments
2020-05-24 11:37:04	styan	I thought I read something about a `robots.txt' for gemini.
2020-05-24 11:38:39	⚡	`epoch tests gemini://makeworld.gq/cgi-bin/gemlikes/add-comment?hack%20I%20open%20URLs%20that%20post%20comments
2020-05-24 11:42:28	`epoch	looks like makeworld isn't working atm
2020-05-24 11:42:35	`epoch	oh well, I wanna go to bed still.
2020-05-24 11:42:37	`epoch	g'night
2020-05-24 11:43:03	styan	Good night.
2020-05-24 11:43:17		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-24 11:44:45	login	it still means you can post multiple comments if you click "submit" in quick succession on a slow connection with no js to disable the submit button as soon as pressed
2020-05-24 11:48:39	@tomasino	yes, there's a robots thing
2020-05-24 12:30:18	~tiwesdaeg	so much gemini talk while I slept
2020-05-24 12:30:27	~tiwesdaeg	and hooray for getting it working ben
2020-05-24 12:44:26		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-24 12:48:39	~tiwesdaeg	Weird, my script for generating links to user's gemini directories somehow was writing to the main index.gmi
2020-05-24 13:19:05	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 13:41:50	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 14:21:57	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 14:27:15	~tiwesdaeg	I think it was a cat >> EOF command used improperly
2020-05-24 14:53:45	login	i never understood how the >>EOF works
2020-05-24 14:59:50	anton	how's this for a start? gemini://antonmcclure.com:1965/
2020-05-24 15:09:07	jba	anton: i couldn't connect
2020-05-24 15:10:04	anton	oh
2020-05-24 15:10:22	⚡	anton forgot to open port in firewall
2020-05-24 15:10:48	anton	jba: does it work now
2020-05-24 15:11:18	jba	anton: yep!  the client kept trying.  when i switched tabs it was up.
2020-05-24 15:13:16	jan	works here too :)
2020-05-24 15:13:39	anton	:)
2020-05-24 15:14:11	anton	forgot to allow port 1965 in firewall lol
2020-05-24 15:14:44	jan	nice site, anton!
2020-05-24 15:15:01	anton	ty
2020-05-24 15:15:05	jba	ya, there's lot's there, anton
2020-05-24 15:21:50		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-24 15:25:08		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-24 16:10:17	@ben	is there a way to get gemserv to list users that have ~/public_gemini ?
2020-05-24 16:36:06	~tiwesdaeg	Ben, yes, with the CGI anywhere branch
2020-05-24 16:36:20	~tiwesdaeg	Look at tilde.pink right now
2020-05-24 16:36:39	~tiwesdaeg	That list is generated dynamically
2020-05-24 16:37:13	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure when into 80h plans to merge that in to master
2020-05-24 16:37:47	~tiwesdaeg	s/into/int
2020-05-24 16:38:49	~tiwesdaeg	You could do it now if you wanted to create a link to a script in cgi-bin, but then it's not on the main page
2020-05-24 16:40:34	~tiwesdaeg	I'm wiping my desktop os right now and stuck on the phone
2020-05-24 16:56:18	@ben	hmm would be nice if castor came back to the same scroll location on a page when you click the back button
2020-05-24 17:01:46	~tiwesdaeg	do any of the browsers do it?
2020-05-24 17:02:19	@ben	not sure, i was just clicking through the user list on ~pink and was getting annoyed by having to scroll back down each time
2020-05-24 17:03:03	@ben	how does cgi work?
2020-05-24 17:04:00	~tiwesdaeg	it's basically any scrypt that can output correct gemini format
2020-05-24 17:04:14	~tiwesdaeg	ben: git branch origin cgi-everywhere
2020-05-24 17:04:25	@ben	yeah i did that
2020-05-24 17:04:36	~tiwesdaeg	do that in your gemserv git repository
2020-05-24 17:04:42	@ben	i built and restarted
2020-05-24 17:04:47	~tiwesdaeg	ok
2020-05-24 17:05:10	~tiwesdaeg	on pink, vim/nano/whatever /var/gemini/index.gmi
2020-05-24 17:05:32	@ben	i made it #!/bin/sh
2020-05-24 17:05:41	~tiwesdaeg	the most important parts are, chmod +x
2020-05-24 17:05:43	~tiwesdaeg	that's fine
2020-05-24 17:05:44	@ben	and changed the content to printf "stuff\n"
2020-05-24 17:06:30	~tiwesdaeg	you need the first line to be 'printf "20 text/gemini\r\n"'
2020-05-24 17:06:53	@ben	oh is the \r required?
2020-05-24 17:06:55	@ben	windows thing?
2020-05-24 17:07:25	~tiwesdaeg	there are endless mailing list discussions about it
2020-05-24 17:07:43	~tiwesdaeg	the spec currently says the first line must end with \r\n
2020-05-24 17:07:54	@ben	but not all lines?
2020-05-24 17:07:56	~tiwesdaeg	based on some old ISO thingy
2020-05-24 17:07:57	~tiwesdaeg	nope
2020-05-24 17:08:06	@ben	i haven't had time to read all the mailing list stuff
2020-05-24 17:08:09	@ben	it's just so much
2020-05-24 17:08:20	~tiwesdaeg	you can echo "blah" or printf "blah\n"
2020-05-24 17:08:29	~tiwesdaeg	I learned all this the ahrd way
2020-05-24 17:08:32	@ben	ok
2020-05-24 17:08:56	~tiwesdaeg	if you look at my index.gmi, you can see the section that creates the user links
2020-05-24 17:09:12	~tiwesdaeg	you may want to tweak it, if you're looking for a public_gemini folder
2020-05-24 17:09:29	~tiwesdaeg	I automatically add one from the skel files with an index.gmi.sample
2020-05-24 17:09:45	~tiwesdaeg	then, if the user makes an index.gmi files, it gets listed
2020-05-24 17:11:19	@ben	i'm not going to add a public_gemini folder to /etc/skel for now
2020-05-24 17:11:32	@ben	i will just list the people who've created one
2020-05-24 17:15:02	@ben	https://ttm.sh/Q2S.txt
2020-05-24 17:15:06	@ben	this is what i came up with
2020-05-24 17:15:31	@ben	is that the right link syntax?
2020-05-24 17:15:39	@ben	gemini://tilde.team
2020-05-24 17:16:07	@ben	seems to work
2020-05-24 17:20:19	@ben	lick: looks like your public_gemini isn't working
2020-05-24 17:20:34	lick	what
2020-05-24 17:20:36	~tiwesdaeg	I'm proably going to convert the main body to "cat >> EOF
2020-05-24 17:20:38	~tiwesdaeg	EOF"
2020-05-24 17:20:51	lick	why isint my public gemini working lol ben
2020-05-24 17:21:08	@ben	lick: idk
2020-05-24 17:21:14	@ben	but it's not loading
2020-05-24 17:21:32	~tiwesdaeg	it makes is a lot easier to edit the main body, instead of having a bunch of echo or printf lines
2020-05-24 17:21:51	@ben	yeah
2020-05-24 17:22:04	@ben	hm would i be able to call figlet
2020-05-24 17:22:12	~tiwesdaeg	sure
2020-05-24 17:22:28	@ben	nice
2020-05-24 17:22:40	@ben	that's easier than having the output in there
2020-05-24 17:22:51	~tiwesdaeg	I usually do something like "/usr/bin/figlet whatever options"
2020-05-24 17:22:57	~tiwesdaeg	or wherever figlet is located
2020-05-24 17:23:08	@ben	oh i didn't even put the full path
2020-05-24 17:23:10	@ben	worked fine
2020-05-24 17:23:23	@ben	figlet -f slant tilde.team
2020-05-24 17:23:40	~tiwesdaeg	you can use date as well, or any program that outputs text
2020-05-24 17:23:55	~tiwesdaeg	try some lolcat ;P
2020-05-24 17:24:22	lick	ben: huh maybe its because i didint put anything in my public_gemini lol, once i stuck a index.gmi into it, it appears to work fine now
2020-05-24 17:24:34	~tiwesdaeg	that would make sense
2020-05-24 17:24:51	~tiwesdaeg	which is why my if statement is superior ;P
2020-05-24 17:24:51	@ben	lick: nice
2020-05-24 17:25:47	lick	why does it just say "# directory listing" instead of file not found or something when its empty?
2020-05-24 17:25:48	@ben	ok i added an inf
2020-05-24 17:25:53	@ben	¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-05-24 17:25:55	@ben	if
2020-05-24 17:25:55	lick	inf?
2020-05-24 17:26:01	lick	oh
2020-05-24 17:26:05	@ben	see /var/gemini/index.gmi
2020-05-24 17:26:12	~tiwesdaeg	I like the utf-8 characters as icons
2020-05-24 17:26:24	@ben	yeah it's cute
2020-05-24 17:26:51	~tiwesdaeg	the bleyble site was using them, so hopped on the train
2020-05-24 17:26:56	lick	wait you can use a bash script as your gmi?
2020-05-24 17:28:01	@ben	yeah
2020-05-24 17:32:35	lick	cool
2020-05-24 17:34:16	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 17:36:04	~tiwesdaeg	ben: this line '  printf "=> gemini://tilde.team/~%s ~%s\n" "$user" "$user"'
2020-05-24 17:36:18	~tiwesdaeg	should be '  printf "=> gemini://tilde.team/~%s ~%s/\n" "$user" "$user"'
2020-05-24 17:36:45	~tiwesdaeg	yours requires a redirect, your links should end with a / for a directory
2020-05-24 17:36:50	~tiwesdaeg	oops
2020-05-24 17:36:59	~tiwesdaeg	should be '  printf "=> gemini://tilde.team/~%s/ ~%s\n" "$user" "$user"'
2020-05-24 17:37:36	~tiwesdaeg	so you get gemini://tilde.team/~user/ instead of gemini://tilde.team/~user
2020-05-24 17:37:45	▬▬▶	makeworld0 has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 17:38:56	makeworld0	`epoch styan: What are your questions?
2020-05-24 17:38:59	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld0, that's different from makeworld_
2020-05-24 17:39:03	makeworld0	Yeah...
2020-05-24 17:39:06	makeworld0	Idk what's going on
2020-05-24 17:39:15	~tiwesdaeg	what client are you using?
2020-05-24 17:39:16	makeworld0	I'd appreciate if you could kick makeworld though
2020-05-24 17:39:20	makeworld0	I'm using thelounge
2020-05-24 17:39:32	makeworld0	It's running on my server, so I just access it through a web UI
2020-05-24 17:39:37	~tiwesdaeg	ahh
2020-05-24 17:39:54	makeworld0	Although when I just checked into the UI right now it said it was disconnected, I had to do /connect
2020-05-24 17:40:06	~tiwesdaeg	well, as long as makeworld is connected to the tilde chat server, you won't be able to use that nick
2020-05-24 17:40:24	makeworld0	Yes, that's why I'm asking if you could kick that name and I'll reassume it
2020-05-24 17:40:32	~tiwesdaeg	have you thought about using weechat, our lord and savior?
2020-05-24 17:40:58	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not an ircop, so I can't actually kill it
2020-05-24 17:41:10	~tiwesdaeg	kicking it just makes it leave this one channel
2020-05-24 17:41:14	makeworld0	Yeah that's fine
2020-05-24 17:41:24	makeworld0	I'm only in this channel lol, I don't use IRC much
2020-05-24 17:41:27	~tiwesdaeg	you're still stuck as makeworld0
2020-05-24 17:41:42		tiwesdaeg has kicked makeworld (kablooie)
2020-05-24 17:41:54	~tiwesdaeg	that's about the limits of my power
2020-05-24 17:42:10	makeworld0	Good enough I think, thanks
2020-05-24 17:42:32	makeworld0	Hmm I still can't change nicks
2020-05-24 17:42:50	~tiwesdaeg	I told you, it's still connected to the server
2020-05-24 17:42:54	~tiwesdaeg	just not in this channel
2020-05-24 17:43:02	~tiwesdaeg	nicks are global for the server
2020-05-24 17:43:07	makeworld0	Oh I see, sorry
2020-05-24 17:43:08	~tiwesdaeg	not special for each channel
2020-05-24 17:43:10	makeworld0	I'll try and restart
2020-05-24 17:43:55		makeworld0 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-24 17:44:03	▬▬▶	makeworld0 has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 17:44:12	lick	are bombadillo bookmarks working for anyone?
2020-05-24 17:47:00	lick	makeworld0: do you have telepathy running anywhere on your computer?
2020-05-24 17:47:27	makeworld0	No
2020-05-24 17:48:17	lick	well someone with the same ip as you is using telepathy-im/voip framework on the same ip as you and they are logged in as makeworld
2020-05-24 17:48:34	lick	oop
2020-05-24 17:48:40	makeworld0	Uh oh
2020-05-24 17:48:57	makeworld0	Impersonating me?
2020-05-24 17:50:37	makeworld0	ben: Could you kick them off the server? Idk what the protocol for this kinda thing is. I think my Internet disconnected last night or something, and now someone's taken my nick
2020-05-24 17:50:52	lick	anyone else have access to the server you have thelounge on makeworld0?
2020-05-24 17:51:06	makeworld0	They shouldn't, no
2020-05-24 17:51:20	lick	weird...
2020-05-24 17:52:17	lick	makeworld0: are you registered with NickServ? if so you can "/msg NickServ RECOVER" to get your nick back
2020-05-24 17:52:31	makeworld0	They have the same IP as me though, so idk what's going on there
2020-05-24 17:52:58	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 17:53:04		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-24 17:53:10	ℹ 	makeworld0 is now known as makeworld
2020-05-24 17:53:33	makeworld	Okay my bad, I opened Polari last night I think, and it messed every up
2020-05-24 17:53:42	lick	polari?
2020-05-24 17:53:43	makeworld	Sorry for the pings and confusion everyone, still figuring out IRC I guess
2020-05-24 17:54:16	lick	does polari use telepathy im framework as its backend or something?
2020-05-24 17:54:20	makeworld	https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Polari/
2020-05-24 17:54:23	makeworld	I guess it must
2020-05-24 17:54:44	makeworld	Yeah it does, I saw the dependencies
2020-05-24 18:00:14	@tomasino	you are so chatty, peoples
2020-05-24 18:00:21	@tomasino	i missed so much
2020-05-24 18:00:24	⚡	tomasino goes back to bed
2020-05-24 18:02:52	makeworld	styan `epoch: Yes, it's stateful somewhat. It stores the filename that's being commented on, for each IP address
2020-05-24 18:02:58	makeworld	Temporarily
2020-05-24 18:35:47	makeworld	Anyone know of any other servers that run Jetforce?
2020-05-24 18:37:27	makeworld	Because the issue styan found with my server, the directory escape, is super serious
2020-05-24 18:37:35	makeworld	But I couldn't replicate it on mozz.us
2020-05-24 18:45:47	makeworld	Anyway, my server's going to be offline now, until I figure that out
2020-05-24 18:45:58	makeworld	I'd appreciate in anyone could confirm or deny this issue
2020-05-24 18:48:19	▬▬▶	info has joined #gemini
2020-05-24 18:48:45	makeworld	I sent an email to Michael about this though
2020-05-24 19:09:44		info has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-24 19:17:32	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: which server is yours?
2020-05-24 19:32:05	@tomasino	I run it on tilde.black
2020-05-24 20:03:04	login	how does gopher work in tor browser?
2020-05-24 20:03:46	login	only through a localhost tor2html proxy?
2020-05-24 20:04:11	login	or a txt browser like lynx?
2020-05-24 20:07:24	@tomasino	You can run most clients through torsocks
2020-05-24 20:07:30	@tomasino	Lynx doesn't like it though
2020-05-24 20:07:35	@tomasino	Try vf1
2020-05-24 20:17:22	cmccabe	torsocks is really nice
2020-05-24 20:17:43	cmccabe	i've used lynx through torsocks before.  what problems have you seen, tomasino?
2020-05-24 20:18:20	@tomasino	Don't recall the error. Something about local proxy
2020-05-24 20:19:00	@tomasino	Whenever I try torsocks lynx gopher://toraddress... It fails
2020-05-24 20:19:27	@tomasino	But substitute lynx with vf1 or bombadillo or something and it's fine
2020-05-24 20:20:16	wgreenhouse	torsocks is kind of hackish (LD_PRELOAD badness) so anything not using normal libc stuff to resolve domains or make tcp connections can behave badly
2020-05-24 20:20:55	wgreenhouse	lynx is old enough that I can imagine it rolling its own tcp stack in places :P
2020-05-24 20:43:51	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: I'm at makeworld.gq but it's offline now bc of the bug
2020-05-24 20:44:14	makeworld	Try accessing gemini://tilde.black/../../var/ or something
2020-05-24 20:50:36	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/vintagetv/superman-01.gmi
2020-05-24 20:50:37	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-24 21:07:19	@tomasino	bombadillos updates are quite nice
2020-05-24 21:07:32	@tomasino	and also yay for alt text support
2020-05-24 21:09:23	@tomasino	well, preemptive yay. i tried toggling the settings but it's not doing anything
2020-05-24 21:09:31	@tomasino	i wonder which alt text style was implemented
2020-05-24 21:11:22	@tomasino	looking at the code it "should" work...
2020-05-24 21:11:44	@tomasino	ooooh
2020-05-24 21:11:49	@tomasino	it overwrote my ini change
2020-05-24 21:11:50	@tomasino	hrm
2020-05-24 21:12:12	@tomasino	Yisss, it works!
2020-05-24 21:12:25	`epoch	if your nick is registered with nickserv there might be a "ghost" command
2020-05-24 21:12:35	`epoch	(oh, replying to backlog... derp.)
2020-05-24 21:17:26	styan	tomasino makeworld: `gemini://tilde.black/../../etc/motd' works
2020-05-24 21:18:04	@tomasino	oh wild
2020-05-24 21:18:10	@tomasino	that seems pretty dangerous
2020-05-24 21:18:20	styan	It can not read user directories, at least.
2020-05-24 21:18:30	@tomasino	i have userdirs on black as 700
2020-05-24 21:18:34	styan	Hooray for strict permissions.
2020-05-24 21:19:00	@tomasino	but that could still read some sensitive stuffs
2020-05-24 21:19:21	@tomasino	yep, /etc/passwd comes up just fine
2020-05-24 21:20:15	@tomasino	hmm, i wonder if i can chroot it or something
2020-05-24 21:21:50	styan	/etc/master.passwd is only readable by root, thankfully.
2020-05-24 21:22:25	lick	lmao
2020-05-24 21:22:31	@tomasino	and i do run this as a daemon user
2020-05-24 21:22:40	lick	tomasino: you should chmod 777 /etc/shadow
2020-05-24 21:22:54	@tomasino	buuuuut...
2020-05-24 21:22:58	@tomasino	big problem
2020-05-24 21:23:06	@tomasino	i can browse to the private key of the server
2020-05-24 21:23:13	lick	uh oh
2020-05-24 21:23:15	styan	That is not good.
2020-05-24 21:23:20	@tomasino	cause the user running jetforce needs to be able to see it to run it
2020-05-24 21:23:21	lick	gemini private key?
2020-05-24 21:23:24	@tomasino	yep
2020-05-24 21:23:39	lick	why not chown it to jetforce?
2020-05-24 21:23:58	@tomasino	it is chowned to my jetforce user, "gemini"
2020-05-24 21:24:03	@tomasino	but jetforce is running AS gemini
2020-05-24 21:24:10	@tomasino	so... when you browse, you're running as gemini
2020-05-24 21:24:14	@tomasino	and thus, you can see it
2020-05-24 21:24:34	styan	I guess tilde.black's gemini server will be down for emergency chrooting.
2020-05-24 21:24:41	@ben	makeworld: usually you can just nickserv recover
2020-05-24 21:24:55	@ben	looks like you were able to recover it
2020-05-24 21:25:00	lick	gwmini can browse random files tomasino?
2020-05-24 21:25:12	@tomasino	jetforce allows arbitrary file path reading with ../ 
2020-05-24 21:25:15	lick	ben: i dont think makeworld is nickserv registered
2020-05-24 21:25:18	@tomasino	you can do directory traversal
2020-05-24 21:25:21	@ben	oh
2020-05-24 21:25:22	lick	oh noes
2020-05-24 21:25:32	@tomasino	about to log an issue on the githubs
2020-05-24 21:25:40	@ben	well usually you can kill your own clients locally
2020-05-24 21:25:45	@ben	i was afk
2020-05-24 21:25:53	@ben	but feel free to ping me or another oper in #helpdesk
2020-05-24 21:26:01	@ben	going afk again, bbl
2020-05-24 21:28:19	@tomasino	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/issues/24
2020-05-24 21:28:25	@tomasino	feel free to add on any details i left out
2020-05-24 21:30:09	@tomasino	anyone know if a similar problem exists in other gemini servers?
2020-05-24 21:53:23	`epoch	I only know that the gemini server I wrote doesn't have directory traversal
2020-05-24 21:54:38	`epoch	instead of trying to chroot it just bails if the normalized path is outside of /var/gemini
2020-05-24 21:55:52	`epoch	would want to also do symlink dereferencing if you're allowing users to do their own files
2020-05-24 21:56:12	`epoch	otherwise someone could just symlink to the gemini server's private key from their ~/public_gemini
2020-05-24 22:03:32	@tomasino	yep
2020-05-24 22:17:22	`epoch	IMPLICATIONS FOR SERVER AUTHORS:
2020-05-24 22:17:22	`epoch	If your server is using a tab character to separate status codes from
2020-05-24 22:17:23	`epoch	<META> content, you MUST switch to using a space.
2020-05-24 22:17:43	`epoch	I was poking at a server the yesterday that was using tab
2020-05-24 22:20:33	`epoch	also, looks like the clients that use basic ssl will need to figure out how to enabled SNI
2020-05-24 22:21:50	`epoch	and how do I get the SNI host from a socat server? hrm...
2020-05-24 22:40:24	`epoch	hrm... a gemini client from inside minetest?
2020-05-24 22:41:33	kayw	that would be cool if done
2020-05-24 22:43:21	`epoch	I have a world where me and someone else build a network using digi-things
2020-05-24 22:43:44	`epoch	and eventually added a relay between that network and IRC using the NIC part
2020-05-24 22:44:13	`epoch	I'm not sure how painful it would be to read gemini sites on the in-game LCD
2020-05-24 22:44:33	`epoch	maybe use a command block to dump it into the chat box
2020-05-24 22:45:17	`epoch	might require abusing a bug in the digiboard that allows formspec injection
2020-05-24 22:55:50	makeworld	tomasino: Wish I had caught you before you filed that issue...  I already emailed him personally because I figured it was an important security issue
2020-05-24 23:01:22	`epoch	two disclosure methods clash in the wild
2020-05-24 23:13:08	@tomasino	ahha
2020-05-24 23:13:17	@tomasino	well, hopefully something he'll address quickly
2020-05-24 23:16:19	styan	I wonder if simply returning an error when a path has a ".." in it would violate any RFCs?
2020-05-24 23:16:38	xq	styan: yes, that violates the URI RFC
2020-05-24 23:17:07	xq	you may not go "out below root", but "foo/../foo" is equivalent to "foo" and should be generated by a normalizer
2020-05-24 23:22:18	styan	It would have been nice if it could be classed as a problem for the client, since they already have to deal with relative links; then servers would not have to deal with it.
2020-05-24 23:24:13	makeworld	tomasino: Hopefully, yeah. But for now my server has to be offline, until I have enough energy to get Molly Brown runnin
2020-05-24 23:26:00	`epoch	a/path/like/merp..derp/should/be/valid/though?
2020-05-24 23:27:42	styan	`epoch: Something like `path !~ /\/\.\.([\/?#]|$)/' would be easy though.
2020-05-24 23:31:08	`epoch	what language is that?
2020-05-24 23:32:06	`epoch	ruby?
2020-05-24 23:32:27	mk270	perl?
2020-05-24 23:32:42	`epoch	perl would use a $ for the variable path
2020-05-24 23:32:44	mk270	possibly also awk
2020-05-24 23:34:41	`epoch	I figure !~ is like the perl =~ except in a while loop or something
2020-05-24 23:35:53	`epoch	I don't know if there's a correct regex that fixes ../s in one pass while somehow not leaving other ../s behind
2020-05-24 23:36:29	`epoch	a/./.././path with /../ removed is still a/../path
2020-05-24 23:37:25	`epoch	I guess that line with !~ is just a checker and not a sanitizer
2020-05-24 23:37:39	`epoch	which make sense now that I see there's not // at the end of the regex.
2020-05-24 23:37:40	`epoch	derp me.
2020-05-24 23:38:23	`epoch	!~ is just =~ but NOTd
2020-05-24 23:42:57	styan	`epoch: awk
2020-05-24 23:44:19	styan	"~ (matches) or !~ (does not match)"
2020-05-24 23:46:09	`epoch	made a prompt loop to see what clients do with it.
2020-05-24 23:46:36	`epoch	castor will leave the old prompt up and open up another one.
2020-05-24 23:46:52	`epoch	gemini://thebackupbox.net/prompt
2020-05-24 23:47:10	`epoch	just does printf '10 %s\r\n' "$QUERY_STRING"
2020-05-24 23:48:17	`epoch	castor didn't open the main window until after I stopped pressing "OK"
2020-05-24 23:48:30	`epoch	er "Send"*
2020-05-24 23:51:40	`epoch	bookmarking the bookmarks page still crashes castor
2020-05-24 23:58:31	styan	`epoch: That test helped me find some bugs, thank you.
2020-05-24 23:58:48	`epoch	np :)
2020-05-24 23:58:49	styan	geminawk(1) was counting input requests as redirects.
2020-05-25 00:01:54	`epoch	where does geminawk live?
2020-05-25 00:02:37	styan	https://tildegit.org/styan/geminawk/
2020-05-25 00:04:16	kayw	i love seeing the cool things people do with awk
2020-05-25 00:04:20	`epoch	is there someone keeping a big list of all the client and server software?
2020-05-25 00:04:28	kayw	uhh, no clue
2020-05-25 00:04:42	styan	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/
2020-05-25 00:04:57	`epoch	I've only done piddly stuff with awk
2020-05-25 00:05:12	`epoch	gracias, sytan
2020-05-25 00:07:39	styan	`epoch: No problem.
2020-05-25 01:09:02	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 01:50:35	~tiwesdaeg	We really need an android client
2020-05-25 01:50:51	@ben	i was just going to ask about that earlier
2020-05-25 02:33:51	lick	ben, tiwesdaeg: apperently there is one lol https://framagit.org/waweic/gemini-client
2020-05-25 02:34:31	@ben	lol nice
2020-05-25 03:13:36	makeworld	tomasino: I'm going to bed now but Michael has made a new release that fixes the bug, but now all relative links not in the root directory fail, returning 51 Not Found
2020-05-25 03:13:39	makeworld	Rip
2020-05-25 03:13:47	makeworld	I let him know in the same issue
2020-05-25 03:29:48	makeworld	Nvm, I think it's bombadillo
2020-05-25 04:04:18	styan	gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/../cgi-bin/stats works.
2020-05-25 04:06:09	styan	makeworld: I just rememberd that I used your comment system to leave a comment on your comment system yesterday.
2020-05-25 04:07:00	`epoch	 gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/../cgi-bin/stats /should/ work, right?
2020-05-25 04:07:29	`epoch	"works" how? like, attempts to run "stats" as a CGI, or it shows the contents of it?
2020-05-25 04:07:56	styan	Yes it should, makeworld thought that there was a bug in jetforce that made it not work.
2020-05-25 04:08:17	`epoch	oh. I need to read more backlog.
2020-05-25 04:08:20	`epoch	probably
2020-05-25 04:13:53	styan	`epoch: A bug was fixed in jetforce, and makeworld thought that the fix broke additionaly things, but now thinks that it is bombadillo.
2020-05-25 04:14:19	`epoch	kk.
2020-05-25 04:52:25		exprez135 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-25 05:16:47	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 11:20:54	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 11:21:17	lukee	hello - I'm just checking out tilde chat for gemini for the first time
2020-05-25 11:22:33	@tomasino	Black updated jetforce
2020-05-25 11:22:41	@tomasino	Looking safer!
2020-05-25 11:23:51	cmccabe	hey lukee. welcome
2020-05-25 11:26:37	lukee	lots of new tools for me to learn recently. I've heard of IRC but never used it before
2020-05-25 11:28:03	lukee	I've been getting my hands dirty with Gemini - I really like it
2020-05-25 11:28:17	lukee	Hope to have a new Windows client released soon
2020-05-25 11:29:05	xq	hey lukee :)
2020-05-25 11:29:16	lukee	I think we need to have more accessible tools to make Gemini more accessible to the wider world
2020-05-25 11:29:30	lukee	But I understand this is just early days.
2020-05-25 11:31:06	lukee	Or maybe we'd rather keep the wider world out ;-)
2020-05-25 11:32:17	lukee	I found some IRC logs at gemini://makeworld.gq/cgi-bin/gemini-irc and thought I would check it out
2020-05-25 11:41:53	▬▬▶	webchatter has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 11:44:31		webchatter has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-25 11:49:12	@tomasino	accessibility is an important goal
2020-05-25 11:49:27	@tomasino	i'm hoping our alt-text stuff will make its way officially into spec shortly
2020-05-25 11:49:43	@tomasino	otherwise we have decent semantics. lang still needs to be figured out, but we're on a good path
2020-05-25 11:49:47	xq	hehe, yeah
2020-05-25 11:50:14	xq	but i think we should split the spec into one for gemini(protocol) and gemini(markup)
2020-05-25 11:50:14	@tomasino	anyone know someone using a braille client?
2020-05-25 11:50:49	@tomasino	xq: not a bad idea, or at least very clearly separate the sections in the spec
2020-05-25 11:50:54	xq	yeah
2020-05-25 11:50:58	xq	let's write an email:D
2020-05-25 11:51:11	xq	i don't know if should say "sadly, i don't know anyone" or "luckily, i don't know anyone"
2020-05-25 11:51:32	xq	i'd love to talk to people with such disabilities to make my programs better suitable for them
2020-05-25 11:51:39	xq	but the less people i know, the less likely that disability is
2020-05-25 11:51:42	@tomasino	i suspect the line-based operations of braille clients would work really well with gemini, but i'd love to get some first hand feedback
2020-05-25 11:55:04	xq	yeah, true
2020-05-25 11:55:27	@tomasino	heading out... car shopping time
2020-05-25 12:23:06	lukee	I suppose at least for now braille readers can use the web proxies. There is the audio client which is already released
2020-05-25 12:23:39	wgreenhouse	I should see if elpher enjoys emacspeak
2020-05-25 12:24:07	lukee	Yes this sort of accessibility is important. The question is when the wider non-expert Internet users will start to use Gemini
2020-05-25 12:26:09	xq	hm
2020-05-25 12:26:21	xq	i badly want to write a *good* cross-platform gemini browser
2020-05-25 12:26:43	xq	but there aren't really much good user interface libaries with a plain C interface available
2020-05-25 12:27:07	lukee	There is always electron :-)
2020-05-25 12:27:23	xq	well, that's something i don't consider "good" :D
2020-05-25 12:27:57	xq	i have my own, self-written UI framework, but that's not meant for standard applications
2020-05-25 12:28:04	xq	so it's ruled out as well
2020-05-25 12:28:49	lukee	I think one could be built on Scintilla
2020-05-25 12:28:50	lukee	https://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html
2020-05-25 12:29:04	lukee	It would do all the text rendering.
2020-05-25 12:29:29	lukee	there are quite a few cross platform text editors that use it
2020-05-25 12:29:41	xq	yeah, i love scintilla
2020-05-25 12:30:05	xq	but text rendering isn't the part i would've problems with
2020-05-25 12:30:21	xq	making a good user experience requires a lot of carefully placed widgets, notifications and everything
2020-05-25 12:30:39	lukee	that is true
2020-05-25 12:31:12	lukee	I'm writing mine in C# WPF and there is a wealth of widgets available, so you are a bit spoiled.
2020-05-25 12:31:17	lukee	but not cross platform
2020-05-25 12:31:27	xq	yeah, sadly
2020-05-25 12:31:28	xq	i love WPF
2020-05-25 12:31:34	xq	the base concept is *sooo gud*
2020-05-25 12:32:50	lukee	I think Qt is probably OK - have seen some good applications in it like TortoiseHg
2020-05-25 12:33:10	lukee	but underlying platform is c/c++ so that rules me out for now
2020-05-25 12:33:35	xq	well
2020-05-25 12:33:38	xq	Qt is C
2020-05-25 12:33:40	xq	*C++
2020-05-25 12:33:59	xq	i'd like to use C though (as i can bind C libraries pretty easily to Zig, my main language)
2020-05-25 12:34:10	xq	but it looks like all major UI frameworks use C++
2020-05-25 12:45:23	jan6	is there any server that refuses tls 1.2 and requires 1.3? probably not, but just asking...
2020-05-25 12:54:53	wgreenhouse	lukee: could do python and pyqt :)
2020-05-25 13:04:41	~tiwesdaeg	time to read all the messages I missed
2020-05-25 13:10:51	lukee	I never have much success with Python. It always seems very heavyweight to install
2020-05-25 13:11:07	xq	it's also quite imperformant, sadly :(
2020-05-25 13:11:17	lukee	I've just started dabbling with Go so I can poke around with Gemget and Molly Brown
2020-05-25 13:11:54	lukee	I have a patch for Molly Brown so it sends the CGI parameters to CGI scripts
2020-05-25 13:12:25	lukee	I had to tweak Gemget to remove a reference to a text progress bar which meant it didnt run on my server
2020-05-25 13:12:36	lukee	which is an old raspberrypi B
2020-05-25 13:13:09	~tiwesdaeg	what did the pi not like about it?
2020-05-25 13:13:41	~tiwesdaeg	are you running raspbian?
2020-05-25 13:13:43	lukee	it needs a later version of Go that has millsecond support
2020-05-25 13:13:50	~tiwesdaeg	ahh
2020-05-25 13:13:52	wgreenhouse	online with elpher in my emacs. :C
2020-05-25 13:14:38	~tiwesdaeg	from the user end, compiling go software can be a pain
2020-05-25 13:14:39	lukee	once I commented that out it runs fine. It just seems to be a UI thing to show progress as it downloads
2020-05-25 13:14:41	lukee	the content
2020-05-25 13:15:59	lukee	yes running the latest raspbian. Its not very fast, but works Ok for my testing
2020-05-25 13:16:15	~tiwesdaeg	well, the pi isn't very fast ;P
2020-05-25 13:17:52	~tiwesdaeg	I've got an old pi b running my gopher weather station
2020-05-25 13:18:17	~tiwesdaeg	I've thought about converting it to gemini and do away with all the gopher cruft
2020-05-25 13:18:55	lukee	sounds interesting. I think a lot of simple web apps could serve GMI.
2020-05-25 13:19:18	lukee	maybe we can invent a JSON-GMI clone to annoy everyone ;-)
2020-05-25 13:19:38	~tiwesdaeg	gopher://perilo.us or https://wx.perilo.us
2020-05-25 13:20:04	~tiwesdaeg	it's a mashup of shell script and python
2020-05-25 13:20:33	~tiwesdaeg	gnuplot for graphs
2020-05-25 13:21:16	~tiwesdaeg	I can't really program in anything else ;P
2020-05-25 13:27:20	wgreenhouse	it seems elpher is quite pleasant as a gemini client. https://ttm.sh/Quq.png
2020-05-25 13:28:01	~tiwesdaeg	irc in emacs?
2020-05-25 13:28:18	wgreenhouse	emacs actually ships with two different irc clients by default
2020-05-25 13:28:20	wgreenhouse	:P
2020-05-25 13:28:25	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-05-25 13:28:26	wgreenhouse	this is erc
2020-05-25 13:28:36	~tiwesdaeg	I have only ever dabbled in emacs
2020-05-25 13:28:46	~tiwesdaeg	I did get elpher working though, to try it out
2020-05-25 13:28:55	wgreenhouse	the other is rcirc (the name being a pun on the client was shorter than the author's ~/.ercrc)
2020-05-25 13:29:02	~tiwesdaeg	I learned vi many moons ago
2020-05-25 13:29:32	wgreenhouse	two irc clients and ~3 mailclients (approximately 3 because one is a frontend to mh)
2020-05-25 13:29:55	~tiwesdaeg	does it have its own shell?
2020-05-25 13:30:22	wgreenhouse	eshell, but it's not really a shell in the unix sense, just an elisp repl with some syntactic sugar so you can use it like a shell
2020-05-25 13:30:30	wgreenhouse	also a terminal emulator (ansi-term)
2020-05-25 13:30:52	~tiwesdaeg	I know I've heard the joke many times that emacs is an os
2020-05-25 13:30:57	wgreenhouse	I like eshell; it is a wacky place where you can redirect shell output to editor buffers, and stuff like that
2020-05-25 13:31:03	~tiwesdaeg	has anyone ever tried to live solely in emacs?
2020-05-25 13:31:38	wgreenhouse	I mean, I basically do that. it is even my X window manager on systems where I have one of those. the only times I have to leave are when I need a full-js browser
2020-05-25 13:32:20	wgreenhouse	the slippery slope is that the efficiency and ux gains to doing things in emacs are increased by doing other things in emacs
2020-05-25 13:33:00	~tiwesdaeg	I've given up on efficiency in life
2020-05-25 13:33:11	lukee	ha ha
2020-05-25 13:33:27	wgreenhouse	well, I don't know if I'm efficieny, actually, but context-switching is painful
2020-05-25 13:33:35	wgreenhouse	*efficient
2020-05-25 13:33:48	~tiwesdaeg	besides, I have so many distractions outside the computer, that there is no way I could every do anything efficiently
2020-05-25 13:33:50	lukee	Instead you could live your whole life inside a web browser
2020-05-25 13:33:59	xq	lukee: true.
2020-05-25 13:34:11	xq	there's a lot of web tooling out there that is quite practical
2020-05-25 13:34:19	~tiwesdaeg	isn't the modern web browser kind of like emacs?
2020-05-25 13:34:22	xq	yeah
2020-05-25 13:34:28	~tiwesdaeg	a one stop shop for your software needs
2020-05-25 13:34:29	xq	it's an OS embedded into an application
2020-05-25 13:34:33	~tiwesdaeg	works for chrome os
2020-05-25 13:34:44	lukee	only thing is every website has its own UI
2020-05-25 13:34:50	xq	yeah
2020-05-25 13:34:54	lukee	links are uninversal though
2020-05-25 13:34:55	wgreenhouse	it has some things in common for sure. browser extensions are a lot like elisp libraries. but yeah, the UI/keybinding situation on the web is a pain
2020-05-25 13:34:57	rak	tiwesdaeg: Cute weather plots
2020-05-25 13:35:09	~tiwesdaeg	rak: it was such a fun build
2020-05-25 13:35:16	wgreenhouse	and browsers increasingly don't make it easy to override keybindings everywhere
2020-05-25 13:35:29	wgreenhouse	there's vimium and things like that fighting against the current
2020-05-25 13:36:29	lukee	I guess each website wants to promote its own UI and brand to be distinctive
2020-05-25 13:37:14	lukee	so they dont have much incentive to adopt a common set of UI conventions beyond the basics
2020-05-25 13:37:34	lukee	Click here to see my innovative website (requires 10mb download)
2020-05-25 13:37:36	rak	God, I'd hate to live entirely in a web browser. They have horrible keybinding support unless you use vimium, they're very resource intensive, etc.
2020-05-25 13:39:14	lukee	I have to admit though that the web was the first bit of technology that really attracted me
2020-05-25 13:39:30	lukee	being able to make your own stuff and share it online
2020-05-25 13:39:49	lukee	It is this huge edifice now.
2020-05-25 13:40:01	lukee	I guess that's why Gemini is interesting
2020-05-25 13:41:13	wgreenhouse	lukee: that, and being fast, and readable by default
2020-05-25 13:41:27	wgreenhouse	readability addons to decrufitify websites are far more necessary than they should be
2020-05-25 13:48:35	lukee	got to go now do some other stuff. cheers!
2020-05-25 13:48:52		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-25 13:49:47	~tiwesdaeg	wgreenhouse: now I have to connect to irc via emacs today, just because
2020-05-25 13:50:25	wgreenhouse	tiwesdaeg: yay :) it's nice.
2020-05-25 13:51:00	~tiwesdaeg	I use a weechat session with a relay so I can access it from whatever device and it's always connected
2020-05-25 13:51:07	~tiwesdaeg	but you know, for science
2020-05-25 13:56:46	wgreenhouse	tiwesdaeg: yeah, none of the extant emacs clients afaik have that capacity to also act as a bouncer. it would bee a step down in that sense. traditionally I pair erc with znc, more recently with irccloud.
2020-05-25 13:57:47	wgreenhouse	as I settle in to tilde.club, thinking about just leaving an emacs running there for irc purposes and doing ssh + emacsclient as needed
2020-05-25 13:57:57	wgreenhouse	(oh yeah, it's a terminal multiplexer too, sort of)
2020-05-25 13:59:22	~tiwesdaeg	I often use ssh + weechat, like right now
2020-05-25 13:59:31	~tiwesdaeg	it's nice to have it on my phone though
2020-05-25 14:00:10	wgreenhouse	yeah mobile stuff was how I ended up falling for irccloud and being a sinner in the eyes of gnu
2020-05-25 14:00:18	wgreenhouse	good mobile client, plus for the past year also offers a bouncer
2020-05-25 14:02:43	~tiwesdaeg	I'm definitely no gnu purist
2020-05-25 14:02:53	⚡	tiwesdaeg hugs his bsd friends
2020-05-25 14:04:12	wgreenhouse	I'm also running this here emacs on a chromebook in the termux environment. so my sins are manifold. :D
2020-05-25 14:04:20	~tiwesdaeg	irccloud is a web based bouncer?
2020-05-25 14:04:35	~tiwesdaeg	I secretly like some of the simplicity of chromebooks
2020-05-25 14:04:57	wgreenhouse	tiwesdaeg: yeah, used to be just a web-based client, but they added bouncer connectivity for non-irccloud clients about a year ago
2020-05-25 14:04:58	~tiwesdaeg	I don't think I could use one as a main workstation
2020-05-25 14:05:05	xq	i don't think "chromebook" is a bad concept
2020-05-25 14:05:13	xq	it suits most casual uses pretty well
2020-05-25 14:05:32	~tiwesdaeg	my kid won a chromebook in a library contest
2020-05-25 14:05:35	xq	never used chrome os, but sounds like it solves the "computers are complicated things"-problem for most people
2020-05-25 14:05:41	~tiwesdaeg	first thing she asked me was if I could install linux on it
2020-05-25 14:05:47	xq	similar to android or even more iOS
2020-05-25 14:05:53	xq	tiwesdaeg: BE PROUD!
2020-05-25 14:06:10	~tiwesdaeg	I think google's future plan is to just sort of merge the two
2020-05-25 14:06:35	~tiwesdaeg	chrome os sucks for art based needs
2020-05-25 14:06:42	~tiwesdaeg	drawing tablet support
2020-05-25 14:06:49	wgreenhouse	xq: the security design of chromeos is thoughtful, too, in many ways moreso than android. it's designed to meet the case of "you can let someone else borrow it and not worry about your own user's stuff"
2020-05-25 14:07:01	~tiwesdaeg	support for stuff like kritta, inkscape, gimp
2020-05-25 14:07:02	xq	wgreenhouse: wow, that sounds nice
2020-05-25 14:07:30	~tiwesdaeg	it's a pain to manage for kids though
2020-05-25 14:07:52	~tiwesdaeg	my youngest uses one and can't be trusted to not access any device he finds
2020-05-25 14:08:17	~tiwesdaeg	we had to setup his google account to be handled by parental controls
2020-05-25 14:08:31	wgreenhouse	right, and chrome os grants "guest" access by default. :) which doesn't persist after reboot, but could be fucky if a kid wants to do stuff unnoticed. :D
2020-05-25 14:08:34	~tiwesdaeg	but now his browser can't install plugins which he needs for school
2020-05-25 14:08:58	~tiwesdaeg	I had to lock it down and only allow a specific set of users
2020-05-25 14:09:04	~tiwesdaeg	so he couldn't just make a new google account
2020-05-25 14:09:10	wgreenhouse	yup.
2020-05-25 14:10:32	~tiwesdaeg	the parental app is pretty awkward too
2020-05-25 14:10:50	wgreenhouse	the main pain point compared with desktop linux (slackware, in my case) for using it as a main workstation is that it's really the antithesis of a system that's compliant with running always-on stuff in background. if you're not interacting with it, it wants to be locked and asleep.
2020-05-25 14:11:06	wgreenhouse	and as part of the aforementioned security model, other users' background stuff doesn't get to run while you're logged in
2020-05-25 14:11:21	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't used slackware since the late 90's
2020-05-25 14:11:33	~tiwesdaeg	it's nice to see it is still chugging along
2020-05-25 14:11:58		jeffpc has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-25 14:12:05	▬▬▶	jeffpc has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 14:12:57	lick	tiwesdaeg: good thing your kid has not found out that they can just go into developer mode and ignore all the restrictions lol
2020-05-25 14:13:19	~tiwesdaeg	well, I might notice the beeping sound
2020-05-25 14:13:24	~tiwesdaeg	does it still do that on boot?
2020-05-25 14:14:02	lick	no
2020-05-25 14:14:18	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't played with in a while
2020-05-25 14:15:10	~tiwesdaeg	I've been using cwm for the past month and am currently using xfce
2020-05-25 14:15:25	~tiwesdaeg	it's so hard to move around and find windows now
2020-05-25 14:15:51	lick	lol
2020-05-25 14:16:01	⚡	lick btw uses arch on his chromebook
2020-05-25 14:18:27	xq	lick: "how do you know someone uses arch linux? They tell you!" *grins*
2020-05-25 14:18:39	~tiwesdaeg	I was having freezing issues on my desktop with debian
2020-05-25 14:18:47	~tiwesdaeg	trying manjaro to see if that goes away
2020-05-25 14:19:03	~tiwesdaeg	and yea, I've installed plain arch a few times before
2020-05-25 14:20:08	xq	i started recomminging manjaro to people, although i don't use it myself
2020-05-25 14:20:11	~tiwesdaeg	I like how this pamac-manager thing installs from the aur
2020-05-25 14:20:16	lick	tiwesdaeg: lol i also have it freezing
2020-05-25 14:20:31	~tiwesdaeg	it was driving me nuts
2020-05-25 14:20:37	xq	on the freezing: is it a sstem freeze or only a graphics freezing?
2020-05-25 14:20:58	xq	i had problems with current kernel, integrated graphics and display port
2020-05-25 14:21:02	~tiwesdaeg	well, when it happened, I was unable to get to console
2020-05-25 14:21:08	xq	the graphics froze, but system stayed responsive
2020-05-25 14:21:13	xq	sshing worked though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-05-25 14:21:18	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-05-25 14:21:23	~tiwesdaeg	who knows now
2020-05-25 14:21:32	~tiwesdaeg	I've got an amd card in this desktop
2020-05-25 14:21:53	~tiwesdaeg	it never used to freeze
2020-05-25 14:22:02	~tiwesdaeg	maybe it's getting old
2020-05-25 14:22:50	xq	ah this may be a cause
2020-05-25 14:22:56	xq	my old amd card just died on my gradually
2020-05-25 14:23:01	xq	having more and more visual noise
2020-05-25 14:23:07	xq	and then one day. black.
2020-05-25 14:23:13	⚡	xq misses his graphics card
2020-05-25 14:26:03	~tiwesdaeg	this is an old radeon 78xx something or other I got for mining litecoin back in the day
2020-05-25 14:26:18	~tiwesdaeg	still plays a lot of games just fine, so I never upgraded
2020-05-25 14:26:43	xq	yeah, keep it that way as long as it works :)
2020-05-25 14:27:21	~tiwesdaeg	anyone try the zain client?
2020-05-25 14:27:41	~tiwesdaeg	I'm trying to find out which dependancy it is looking for
2020-05-25 14:28:09	~tiwesdaeg	package require tls
2020-05-25 14:28:26	~tiwesdaeg	I tried pip install tls, but there doesn't seem to be a package available
2020-05-25 14:29:38	~tiwesdaeg	there's a tlstk (0.0) and tls (0.0) when I run a search
2020-05-25 14:59:40	@tomasino	hrm, jetforce still seems to be leaking for tilde black
2020-05-25 15:00:14	@tomasino	there we go
2020-05-25 15:00:17	@tomasino	had to restart the service
2020-05-25 15:12:46	lick	o
2020-05-25 16:10:41	jan6	no
2020-05-25 16:12:59	lick	jan6: no what?
2020-05-25 16:13:12	jan6	18:12 <lick> o
2020-05-25 16:13:12	jan6	19:10 <jan6> no
2020-05-25 16:13:29	jan6	that's what
2020-05-25 16:13:32	lick	lmao
2020-05-25 16:21:30	makeworld	styan: What did you do to leave comments on CGI scripts? I'm gonna release my comment system today but I want to fix that if possible
2020-05-25 17:33:38	makeworld	I just wrote some code that should fix and prevent all kinds of directory traversal for commenting and liking. Feel free to try to break it and let me know
2020-05-25 17:38:34	▬▬▶	info has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 17:58:55	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: did you see the mailing list announcement for the jetforce vulnerability?
2020-05-25 17:59:39	kayw	the what?
2020-05-25 17:59:49	kayw	lemme see this
2020-05-25 17:59:52	@tomasino	i logged the issue, tiwesdaeg ! black is all good
2020-05-25 18:00:00	~tiwesdaeg	excellent!
2020-05-25 18:00:06	~tiwesdaeg	did you also find a car?
2020-05-25 18:00:14	@tomasino	i did!
2020-05-25 18:00:17	@tomasino	2017 tivoli
2020-05-25 18:00:20	@tomasino	it's nice
2020-05-25 18:00:25		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-25 18:00:39	~tiwesdaeg	I realized today that pink's clock, set to GMT, should be the same time as your local timezone
2020-05-25 18:01:59	~tiwesdaeg	SsangYong, that's a fun one to say
2020-05-25 18:14:53	@tomasino	hah, yeah
2020-05-25 18:14:58	@tomasino	i'd never heard of them before
2020-05-25 18:15:11	@tomasino	did some research and boy did they amke some ugly cars
2020-05-25 18:15:16	@tomasino	but the quality seems just fine
2020-05-25 18:15:25	@tomasino	it shares a gearbox with the mid-level BMWs
2020-05-25 18:19:11	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 18:29:53	lick	if jetforce has vulnerabilities, why not switch to gemserv?
2020-05-25 18:38:19	~tiwesdaeg	they've been fixed already
2020-05-25 18:38:27	~tiwesdaeg	you just need to update it
2020-05-25 18:38:33	lick	ah
2020-05-25 19:00:08	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 19:11:17		info has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-25 19:14:03	makeworld	Anyone got suggestions for a name for my comment and like system? I'm calling it gemlikes right now, but idk if that's good
2020-05-25 19:21:25	wgreenhouse	boosters?
2020-05-25 19:23:43	makeworld	Why boosters?
2020-05-25 19:31:58	wgreenhouse	makeworld: as in rocket boosters
2020-05-25 19:32:04	wgreenhouse	bad space pun
2020-05-25 19:32:14	wgreenhouse	also a like boosts the content
2020-05-25 19:32:29	makeworld	Ah ok lol
2020-05-25 20:01:31	makeworld	I might stick with gemlikes for now, I've written it a lot lol
2020-05-25 20:04:21	login	s/p/P
2020-05-25 20:06:13	makeworld	?
2020-05-25 20:07:14	login	call it muslin
2020-05-25 20:07:32	login	what you use to polish gems
2020-05-25 20:16:03	@tomasino	superpoops
2020-05-25 20:16:43	@tomasino	you know, like this was worthy of reading in the bathroom on my phone and has turned this experience into...
2020-05-25 20:28:04	makeworld	Hahaha
2020-05-25 20:29:25	⚡	tomasino is excellent at naming things
2020-05-25 21:03:48	styan	makeworld: gemini://makeworld.gq/cgi-bin/gemlikes/add-comment?../cgi-bin/gemlikes/add-comment
2020-05-25 21:04:16	makeworld	Does it still work?
2020-05-25 21:04:24	makeworld	Thanks btw
2020-05-25 21:05:11	makeworld	Yep, it seems to fail now
2020-05-25 21:05:19	⚡	makeworld afk for a while
2020-05-25 21:19:57	styan	makeworld: It is kind of neat to think that if I was not able to do that jetforce would probably still have that bug.
2020-05-25 21:21:36	styan	tiwesdaeg: I tried zain for a little bit, it needed devel/tcltls (FreeBSD port) on my system.
2020-05-25 21:21:58	~tiwesdaeg	hmm, I'll see what I can dig up
2020-05-25 21:22:03	styan	This is its website: http://core.tcl.tk/tcltls
2020-05-25 21:22:25	~tiwesdaeg	I got my netbsd drive running again so I'm back in bsd land
2020-05-25 21:23:05	styan	xq: Tk is a good cross-platform GUI toolkit with C bindings. :-)
2020-05-25 21:23:52	xq	styan: i sadly didn't find a quick example
2020-05-25 21:23:57	xq	only some macro magic which uses Tcl
2020-05-25 21:25:55	styan	Here is the C API, if you did not already find it: http://www.tcl-lang.org/man/tcl8.6/TkLib/contents.htm
2020-05-25 21:28:10	styan	I have not actually used it from C though.
2020-05-25 21:37:43	styan	makeworld: I could not break gemlikes again.
2020-05-25 21:44:36	xq	hack of the day: serving gemini files via the web
2020-05-25 21:45:44	xq	thanks styan!
2020-05-25 21:50:53	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 21:53:03	styan	xq: I hope it works for you.  I do not know if you can completely avoid Tcl, though.
2020-05-25 21:53:16	xq	yeah, i'll take a look :)
2020-05-25 21:53:28	xq	but i think i look at gtk+ first
2020-05-25 22:00:46	⚡	lick is comping gemserv its taking a while lol
2020-05-25 22:01:57	styan	xq: Well, good lick with whichever you end up using.
2020-05-25 22:02:10	xq	thanks :)
2020-05-25 22:03:03		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-25 22:03:24	makeworld	styan: It is pretty cool to think about that. Nice job discovering it! I shudder to think about how long my server and others were unguarded...
2020-05-25 22:03:46	makeworld	Also glad to hear you couldn't break it anymore, seems like the path detection I added worked
2020-05-25 22:05:46	styan	makeworld: There is one idea that I could not test fully, that is navigating back froma sub-directory.
2020-05-25 22:06:04	makeworld	Could you give an example of what you mean?
2020-05-25 22:06:22	styan	Like: gemini://makeworld.gq/cgi-bin/gemlikes/add-comment?directory/../../cgi-bin/gemlikes/add-comment
2020-05-25 22:06:52	makeworld	I feel quite sure that will fail, esp. if the other ones did too. But why couldn't you test it fully?
2020-05-25 22:06:56	styan	It is probably fine, but I just thought that I would mention it.
2020-05-25 22:07:08	makeworld	Yeah, thanks
2020-05-25 22:07:29	styan	I could not test it fully because there are no sub-directories in `gemlog'
2020-05-25 22:07:55	styan	Without seeing the code, I do not know if it requires the directories to exist.
2020-05-25 22:08:25	makeworld	Gtg now, but the code will be up shortly
2020-05-25 22:08:34	makeworld	There's a sub dir now, it's gemlog/test/
2020-05-25 22:08:36	styan	It does fail with non-existing directories though.
2020-05-25 22:08:40	makeworld	Good to hear
2020-05-25 22:09:52	styan	I got `40 File not known', so now I am out of ideas. :-)
2020-05-25 22:24:37		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-25 22:46:06	makeworld	Perfect lol
2020-05-25 22:46:07	makeworld	Thanks
2020-05-25 23:13:28		lanodan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-25 23:16:00	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:21:35		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		mmmattyx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		underpower has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		natpen has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		xwindows has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		rak has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		tildebeast1 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		anelki has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		cmccabe has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		lick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		`epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		dacav has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		tuesday has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		jeffpc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		m68k has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		anton has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		wangofett has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		exprez135 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		liberius has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		lanodan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		mk270 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:21:35		jdp has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	cmccabe has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	tildebeast1 has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	lick has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	`epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	underpower has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	jeffpc has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	mk270 has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	dacav has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	xwindows has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	jdp has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-05-25 23:22:50	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oqo ben tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by team.tilde.chat
2020-05-25 23:27:06	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemlikes
2020-05-25 23:27:11	makeworld	Gemlikes is live :)
2020-05-25 23:27:17	makeworld	Writing the mailing list post rn
2020-05-25 23:29:12	lick	 o
2020-05-25 23:39:10	makeworld	Alright, sent
2020-05-25 23:48:37	makeworld	Lmk if any of you guys end up using it on your gemlogs
2020-05-25 23:58:02	styan	Oh, full Go programs.  For some reason I assumed that they were shell scripts.
2020-05-26 00:02:37	makeworld	Yeah that would still work, but I wanted to sharpen my Go skills - and also shell scripts would be really hard to get right I think
2020-05-26 00:03:03	makeworld	Like if I weren't using Go I'd use Python or something, but not Bash
2020-05-26 00:15:59	lick	are there any gemini clients at the moment that complain if the server is using a self-signed cert?
2020-05-26 00:16:45	⚡	lick installed jetforce on his pi come check it out gemini://data.bellz.org/
2020-05-26 00:18:45	kayw	lick: your cert is not valid for me
2020-05-26 00:18:45	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 00:18:53	kayw	`ERROR: ('Certificate not valid until: 2020-05-25 23:45:06!',)`
2020-05-26 00:20:09	kayw	oddly enough, thats only being reported in av98
2020-05-26 00:22:25	lick	lol wut
2020-05-26 00:22:50	lick	maybe its confused from my timezone
2020-05-26 00:23:05	lick	bombadillo on ~team does not complain for me...
2020-05-26 00:29:05	@tomasino	i'd hope not, since self signed seems to be the preferred way
2020-05-26 00:29:13	styan	makeworld: You might be interested and/or horrified to know that there are web servers written in plan9's shell.  :-)
2020-05-26 00:32:54	lick	lol omg why do those exist styan
2020-05-26 00:35:37	styan	lick: Because listen(8) exists, probably.  http://man.9front.org/8/listen
2020-05-26 00:36:57	lick	lol
2020-05-26 00:37:30	styan	Also, because rc(1) and awk(1) are easier to use for string processing than C.
2020-05-26 00:38:09	makeworld	styan: I'd prefer not to know haha
2020-05-26 00:45:06	@tomasino	yay shell scripts!
2020-05-26 00:45:49	styan	It is not nearly as bad as it sounds.  rc(1) is better than sh(1), an plan9's security model makes dropping capabilities relatively trivial.
2020-05-26 00:46:03	styan	s/ an / and /
2020-05-26 01:48:29	▬▬▶	vclv has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 02:06:45	gbmor	lick: i've been doing some local stuff on my own machine and bombadillo complains loudly about my self-signed cert, so i've been using openssl s_client lol
2020-05-26 02:07:47	gbmor	Bombadillo 2.3.0 - build 2020-05-25T00:42-0400
2020-05-26 02:15:47	lick	huh im using the same version of bombadillo and it doesint seem to care about my self signed cert lol
2020-05-26 02:15:59	@ben	i don't really grok the cert stuff in gemini
2020-05-26 02:16:37	lick	grok?
2020-05-26 02:17:12	@ben	it's slang for understand
2020-05-26 02:18:38	lick	ah
2020-05-26 02:28:33	@tomasino	whew
2020-05-26 02:28:37	@tomasino	and done
2020-05-26 02:29:10	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/vintagetv/superman-02.gmi
2020-05-26 02:29:52		makeworld has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-26 02:29:54	@tomasino	superman essay #2
2020-05-26 02:30:05	@tomasino	now i'm off to bed
2020-05-26 02:30:09	@tomasino	night all
2020-05-26 02:31:55	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 02:32:56	vclv	nice post
2020-05-26 02:42:43	gbmor	ah i just double checked lick - it's because i quickly generated a self-signed cert to use and didn't fill in any of the pertinent fields, so it's complaining about the hostname not matching. woops.
2020-05-26 02:44:07	gbmor	yep, filling out CN=localhost, it works fine
2020-05-26 03:34:04	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 03:35:21		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-26 04:55:06		vclv has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-26 08:02:12	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 08:02:37		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-26 11:57:27	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 14:27:08	jan6	I know this is most probably useless for many, but if anyone wants a barebones snippet to get raw geminis, then here's one with openssl s_client, you can prefill the variable i with the full url, or remove it from the start to get prompted for it, should work with any posix-compatible shell
2020-05-26 14:27:11	jan6	i="gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/";if [ -z "$i" ];then printf "gemini:// URL: ";read -r i;fi;if [ -n "$i" ];then echo "$i"|cut -d / -f 3-|{ read a;domain="$(echo "$a"|cut -d / -f 1)";url="$(echo "$a"|cut -d / -f 2-)";printf "%s\r\n" "gemini://$domain/$url"|openssl s_client -connect "$domain":1965 -quiet -verify_quiet;};else echo "no gemini:// url detected!";fi;i=""
2020-05-26 14:27:40	cmccabe	nice jan6
2020-05-26 14:28:01	jan6	it's cool for when you "just want the content" imho
2020-05-26 14:28:25	jan6	like if I just want that superman essay, without caring about getting a client and whatnot ;P
2020-05-26 14:30:30	⚡	jan6 is thinking of some sort of modular client, but not sure what language t use...
2020-05-26 14:31:10		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-26 14:31:17	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 14:31:26		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-26 14:31:58	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 14:34:54	@tomasino	you have that in a repo somewhere or a pastebin?
2020-05-26 14:39:50	jan6	nah
2020-05-26 14:39:54	jan6	and have what?
2020-05-26 14:40:11	jan6	all I have is the old thingy I made to download konpeito
2020-05-26 14:41:44	@tomasino	just hard to read in IRC. was gonna poke through it pretty-like
2020-05-26 14:42:08	jan6	https://tildegit.org/jan6/geminish still uses socat
2020-05-26 14:42:18	jan6	not sure which is better for comatibility, tbh
2020-05-26 14:47:33	lick	socat++
2020-05-26 14:54:11	jan6	k, should be up in a few minutes
2020-05-26 14:57:03	jan6	tomasino: https://tildegit.org/jan6/geminish/src/branch/master/gemini_get_openssl.sh
2020-05-26 14:58:14	@tomasino	huzzah
2020-05-26 14:58:28	@tomasino	kiitos
2020-05-26 14:58:37	lick	kitties
2020-05-26 14:58:53	jan6	and yes, you can do
2020-05-26 14:58:54	jan6	i="gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/vintagetv/superman-02.gmi" ./gemini_get_openssl.sh
2020-05-26 14:59:14	jan6	or ./gemini_get_openssl.sh "gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/vintagetv/superman-02.gmi"
2020-05-26 14:59:28	jan6	or ./gemini_get_openssl.sh and then at prompt write url
2020-05-26 14:59:47	jan6	or echo "gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/vintagetv/superman-02.gmi"|./gemini_get_openssl.sh
2020-05-26 14:59:57	jan6	it works in many ways, which is great
2020-05-26 15:00:43	jan6	and as usual, you can tail -n +2 to get files properly
2020-05-26 15:13:09	makeworld	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/commit/1066d39125a8bff334c63fe3abc50fc3f45fb837
2020-05-26 15:13:17	makeworld	He locked the thread without answering my question :/
2020-05-26 15:13:29	makeworld	So I made a new issue about it: https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/issues/25
2020-05-26 15:15:46	makeworld	Also speaking of licensing, I was wondering about switching md2gemini from MIT to GPLv3, does anyone have opinions? Idk if there's much point but I think originally I though the project would be so simple that MIT would be fine, but it ended up being more work then I thought
2020-05-26 15:19:32	kayw	Why do people care about what licences are used on projects
2020-05-26 15:19:40	kayw	Thats just something i've never understood
2020-05-26 15:19:44	jan6	that is a weird stance on jetforce for sure
2020-05-26 15:20:06	jan6	making it run on less platforms is desireable for SOME reason...wow...
2020-05-26 15:20:40	jan6	kayw: would you like if someone say, sold your software, without mentioning it learly you made it?
2020-05-26 15:21:47	kayw	yeah no
2020-05-26 15:23:52	makeworld	Yeah that's why I want to switch to GPL, because I put actual work into md2gemini and I don't like the idea that someone could just make their own proprietary version
2020-05-26 15:25:37	wgreenhouse	jan6: so basically they did something morally equivalent to licensing it as CC BY-NC
2020-05-26 15:25:40	wgreenhouse	weird
2020-05-26 15:25:44	kayw	ok maybe i should change some of my projects from WTFPL to MIT or something else
2020-05-26 15:26:42	kayw	my dots are under WTFPL, but i should probably change others
2020-05-26 15:26:55	jan6	I'd like if there were more such permissive licenses that allowed "do whatever ou want as long as I'm credited, you don't blame me on anything, and you don't make money off of it"
2020-05-26 15:27:06	jan6	*you
2020-05-26 15:27:43	kayw	yeah something like WTFPL but with what you said
2020-05-26 15:27:49	makeworld	The last one is the harder part, the money thing
2020-05-26 15:28:09	makeworld	CC-BY-NC basically covers that I think, but you shouldn't use it for code
2020-05-26 15:32:30	makeworld	I mean making something open source helps cover the money thing a bit but that's not the goal
2020-05-26 15:33:47	makeworld	Anyway does anyone have a reason why I shouldn't switch to GPL
2020-05-26 15:35:09	@tomasino	you're the only contributor so far, right?
2020-05-26 15:35:13	@tomasino	do as thou wilt!
2020-05-26 15:35:24	@tomasino	i personally like gpl-3, but it's up to you
2020-05-26 15:40:36	bard	gpl is good
2020-05-26 15:41:08	jan6	also why no CC for code?
2020-05-26 15:41:53	bard	any non-commercial clause breaks freedom 0 (use the software for any purpose) of free software, so that'd be a no-go for me at least
2020-05-26 15:42:37	wgreenhouse	agree. it makes it non-free
2020-05-26 15:42:52	wgreenhouse	and for server software in particular it's a bizarre thing to do
2020-05-26 15:42:59	wgreenhouse	> try to encourage uptake of a new protocol
2020-05-26 15:43:12	wgreenhouse	> make reference server unable to be used for commercial purposes
2020-05-26 15:43:13	wgreenhouse	wat
2020-05-26 15:43:19	makeworld	Yeah it's so strange
2020-05-26 15:43:34	⚡	lick now has drone ci push to his gemini pod yay https://drone.tildegit.org/LickTheCheese/pod/7
2020-05-26 15:43:47	wgreenhouse	I can see doing it for a game, since that is possibly more like art than software
2020-05-26 15:43:51	wgreenhouse	but for a server?
2020-05-26 15:44:17	makeworld	jan6: https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-commons-license-to-software
2020-05-26 15:44:32	makeworld	"Unlike software-specific licenses, CC licenses do not contain specific terms about the distribution of source code, which is often important to ensuring the free reuse and modifiability of software."
2020-05-26 15:44:51	makeworld	The wording and history of the licenses are not aimed at software, and so it wouldn't be as strong legally
2020-05-26 15:45:06	makeworld	They are also not GPL compatible
2020-05-26 15:45:16	lick	whos stopping them from using gpl software for commertial use? they can just make their stuff open source lol
2020-05-26 15:46:48	wgreenhouse	lick: gpl can be used commercially just fine
2020-05-26 15:46:55	@tomasino	i'm pretty sick of the word free being used in software context at all. It just causes needless confusion and argument about semantics. Libre & Gratis. What matters to you most
2020-05-26 15:47:05	wgreenhouse	lick: but the dev of jetforce decided to use a non-commercial license
2020-05-26 15:47:23	lick	ohhh
2020-05-26 15:47:31	wgreenhouse	yeah, weird right?
2020-05-26 15:47:43	bard	I'd rather people default to free meaning freedom than cost, plus wikipedia's article on "free software" is for free as in freedom software, not freeware or anything like that
2020-05-26 15:47:52	@tomasino	jetforce's choice of license is strange since there are others that achieve the same goal with more mature usage, but ultimately it is what it is
2020-05-26 15:48:16	lick	lolwut thats such a strange license, it can be closed source but you cant charge money?
2020-05-26 15:48:33	makeworld	I feel like I've seen other Gemini software that chooses the FFSL, can anyone confirm?
2020-05-26 15:48:57	@tomasino	a lot of early gratis software was closed source
2020-05-26 15:50:00	@tomasino	I care more about my software being available gratis than libre
2020-05-26 15:50:15	makeworld	Oh shoot I just changed the license but I remember a reason why MIT might make sense. It also works as a Python library, and I don't want to force people to use GPL
2020-05-26 15:50:20	makeworld	Oh wait I'll just switch to LGPL
2020-05-26 15:50:33	@tomasino	there ya go
2020-05-26 15:50:39	makeworld	Lol
2020-05-26 15:51:06	@tomasino	anywho, license however you like, peoples
2020-05-26 15:51:24	@tomasino	if a company wants to rip you off they'll do it and drown you in legal fees anyway
2020-05-26 15:51:27	@tomasino	so it's all moot
2020-05-26 15:51:33	makeworld	:(
2020-05-26 15:51:48	makeworld	However I think the risk of that happening to Gemini projects is pretty low lol
2020-05-26 15:51:58	@tomasino	:D likely
2020-05-26 15:52:26	@tomasino	i made one small amendment to the end of my superman part 2, if any of you read it already
2020-05-26 15:59:35	makeworld	What's the link again?
2020-05-26 16:01:15		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-26 16:03:04		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-26 16:04:31	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 16:09:21		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-26 16:10:48	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 16:17:39		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-26 16:19:09	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 16:26:07	login	windows makes more money from enterprise licences i think
2020-05-26 16:32:06		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-26 16:33:34	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 16:40:24		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-26 16:41:52	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 16:47:42		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-26 16:49:10	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 16:55:00		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-26 16:56:27	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 16:58:07	@tomasino	makeworld:gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/vintagetv/superman-02.gmi
2020-05-26 16:59:44	makeworld	Oh okay thanks
2020-05-26 16:59:52	makeworld	I haven't read it yet but the ASCII art draws me in :)
2020-05-26 17:03:34	@tomasino	:D
2020-05-26 17:03:44	@tomasino	i just tweaked some formatting and added links to part 1 and so-on
2020-05-26 18:10:09	~tiwesdaeg	ugh, compiling gemserv on my old raspberry pi b
2020-05-26 18:10:20	~tiwesdaeg	this is going to take a year
2020-05-26 18:10:28	kayw	oh boy
2020-05-26 18:10:41	kayw	why not just cross compile a static binary or something
2020-05-26 18:10:59	~tiwesdaeg	the little guy needs the exercise
2020-05-26 18:11:35	~tiwesdaeg	nice, failed on the first crate
2020-05-26 18:14:20	~tiwesdaeg	invalid memory reference
2020-05-26 18:14:24	~tiwesdaeg	maybe I can't?
2020-05-26 18:15:03	~tiwesdaeg	come on, 512mb is plenty of memory
2020-05-26 18:18:24	~tiwesdaeg	looks like an arm bug for libc
2020-05-26 18:21:30	~tiwesdaeg	kayw: on your ~pink gemini page, did you want to show that actual code for gemini links or create gemini links as examples that don't work?
2020-05-26 18:22:30	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 18:23:22	lick	tiwesdaeg: i tried compiling it on my pi zero it didint work lol
2020-05-26 18:24:31	~tiwesdaeg	libc failed?
2020-05-26 18:24:49	~tiwesdaeg	[profile.release]
2020-05-26 18:24:49	kayw	oh uhh, fuck
2020-05-26 18:24:51	~tiwesdaeg	codegen-units = 1
2020-05-26 18:24:58	kayw	i forgot to finish setting it up
2020-05-26 18:25:03	kayw	thanks for reminding me
2020-05-26 18:25:04	~tiwesdaeg	I put that in the Cargo.toml and libc built
2020-05-26 18:25:39	~tiwesdaeg	kayw: you can use ``` for the links if you meant to display the code
2020-05-26 18:26:02	kayw	thanks
2020-05-26 18:26:41	~tiwesdaeg	I like to poke around at the new user pages on pink
2020-05-26 18:27:09	~tiwesdaeg	woo, built 28 of 89
2020-05-26 18:27:24	~tiwesdaeg	I'm full expecting openssl or openssl-sys to fail
2020-05-26 18:28:02	kayw	alright, cool
2020-05-26 18:28:11	kayw	i set it up
2020-05-26 18:28:44	~tiwesdaeg	haha, I leave those links all over the place too
2020-05-26 18:29:35	~tiwesdaeg	woo, openssl-sys built
2020-05-26 18:30:09	~tiwesdaeg	lick: your pi zero has the same cpu as my old pi b I believe
2020-05-26 18:31:14	lick	huh
2020-05-26 18:31:45	~tiwesdaeg	I have a couple pi zeros and a 3 b+ too
2020-05-26 19:58:48	~tiwesdaeg	lick: it compiled!
2020-05-26 19:59:07	~tiwesdaeg	those two lines I pasted up there might do the trick for you
2020-05-26 19:59:26	lick	oo
2020-05-26 20:15:57	~tiwesdaeg	it works!
2020-05-26 20:46:07	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 21:08:24	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 21:09:55	lukee	@tiwesdaeg - I managed to compile Molly Brown on a Pi B. Most of the other servers I tried didnt succeed
2020-05-26 21:48:19	~tiwesdaeg	So gemserv and molly brown both work on old pi's
2020-05-26 21:48:57	~tiwesdaeg	I would think jetforce would probably work too
2020-05-26 21:49:57	kayw	dont see why it wouldn't, it's python
2020-05-26 21:52:50	~tiwesdaeg	 ok, now to see if I can convert over my weather software
2020-05-26 21:56:56	lick	tiwesdaeg: jetforce works, i use it on my pi
2020-05-26 21:58:20	~tiwesdaeg	ooo, maybe we should create a gemini server ready pi image
2020-05-26 21:58:25	lick	ooo
2020-05-26 21:58:38	~tiwesdaeg	geminpi, gempi, gemini pi
2020-05-26 21:58:44	kayw	i like gempi
2020-05-26 21:58:45	~tiwesdaeg	I think the last one sounds nice
2020-05-26 21:59:13	kayw	i would host my gemini server on my rpi, but i dont have a static pi :(
2020-05-26 21:59:17	kayw	ip*
2020-05-26 21:59:35	~tiwesdaeg	I technically don't but it's been the same for a year and a half
2020-05-26 21:59:53	kayw	mine changed like 2 days ago
2020-05-26 22:00:02	~tiwesdaeg	I'm on fiber
2020-05-26 22:00:20	kayw	i believe i am too
2020-05-26 22:00:23	~tiwesdaeg	even when if went down for a few days due to neighbor's lawn mower
2020-05-26 22:05:39	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-26 22:55:37	makeworld	lukee: Why not cross-compile for the Pi? Idk what that's like for Rust but Molly is written in Go and it's super easy
2020-05-26 23:01:15	lukee	I'm new to Go. I didnt remember you can cross-compile. I first downloaded the molly binary which worked but I wanted to tweak the source
2020-05-26 23:01:41	lukee	so it seemed to make sense to compile in situ. It didnt take too long really - maybe 30 seconds
2020-05-26 23:02:46	lukee	Molly doesnt pass the query string via the environment, so my tweak was to make it more "CGI" like
2020-05-26 23:07:18	lukee	I made a small change to gemget too to get it to compile - it references a progress bar which needs a more recent Go than I can install on my old pi
2020-05-26 23:07:30	lukee	I just removed the reference then it compiled ok
2020-05-26 23:08:01	makeworld	Oh what Go version do you have?
2020-05-26 23:08:15	makeworld	But yeah the progress bar is just for fun
2020-05-26 23:11:11	lukee	go version go1.11.6 linux/arm
2020-05-26 23:12:03	makeworld	Hmm I thought that should work, as an absolute minimum, but maybe not
2020-05-26 23:12:08	lukee	I have a recent raspbian but it doesnt want to let me upgrade to a more recent Go than that
2020-05-26 23:12:15	makeworld	Do you remember the error?
2020-05-26 23:12:30	lukee	it complained the progress bar needing "Millisecond" support
2020-05-26 23:13:09	makeworld	Huh that's weird
2020-05-26 23:13:24	makeworld	Guess it really was the version then
2020-05-26 23:13:29	lukee	I googled it and apparently it was fixed in a later Go version
2020-05-26 23:14:20	makeworld	Aha
2020-05-26 23:14:24	makeworld	https://www.e-tinkers.com/2019/06/better-way-to-install-golang-go-on-raspberry-pi/
2020-05-26 23:14:34	lukee	I've been using gemget as a gemini client in my forthcoming Windows client. It seems to work well
2020-05-26 23:14:42	makeworld	Not too hard to update the version, there's just not a pkg though
2020-05-26 23:14:48	makeworld	Oh you have?
2020-05-26 23:14:56	makeworld	Cool to see it getting some use :)
2020-05-26 23:15:16	makeworld	How are you using it though?
2020-05-26 23:15:49	lukee	via the command line
2020-05-26 23:16:22	lukee	One thing I couldnt see how to do yet is how do I get the mime type coming back from the server?
2020-05-26 23:17:52	makeworld	No I meant how does it integrate with your windows client
2020-05-26 23:17:57	lukee	At the moment I just assume everything is text/gemini
2020-05-26 23:18:17	makeworld	The mime type is in the META area of a response
2020-05-26 23:18:24	makeworld	But gemget doesn't display that for you
2020-05-26 23:18:47	lukee	It would be great if there was a way to get it, otherwise I have to guess
2020-05-26 23:19:29	makeworld	Yeah, you shouldn't really be guessing. Gemget is not really the tool for this. It's just made for downloading
2020-05-26 23:19:32	lukee	I've been using the -o to save the GMI to a file then parsing some of the content returned on stout
2020-05-26 23:20:11	lukee	Maybe, but it works fine for my purposes right now :-)
2020-05-26 23:20:57	lukee	eventually I will use a dedicated client. but at the moment I just want to focus on the UI aspects
2020-05-26 23:21:11	makeworld	Hey, if you're able to use it that's great! Just be aware of its limitations
2020-05-26 23:21:17	lukee	so having another application do the networking is helpful
2020-05-26 23:21:29	makeworld	Happy to be able to make something that people can use
2020-05-26 23:21:30	lukee	OK, thats fair enough
2020-05-26 23:24:05	makeworld	tomasino: Just finished superman 01, great analysis :D
2020-05-26 23:24:18	makeworld	Keep writing! For now, I'll be moving on to the next one
2020-05-26 23:24:39	lukee	I might tweak the source so it puts the mime type on std out like some other output.
2020-05-26 23:24:55	lukee	maybe like this *** mime type: text/gemini ***
2020-05-26 23:25:31	lukee	anyway thanks for it so far it has been helpful. If I make any other changes I'll let you know
2020-05-26 23:26:24	makeworld	Sure yeah, you're welcome. I'd appreciate if you release your source changes at some point, but you don't have to
2020-05-26 23:27:20	lukee	yes I will if I'm not too embarrassed by them. I'm just dipping a toe in the Go waters for the first time
2020-05-26 23:30:11	@tomasino	Thanks for reading makeworld
2020-05-26 23:30:54	makeworld	I wasn't expecting the ending of the first one, it's a good connection though
2020-05-26 23:31:59	gbmor	lukee Go is really fun to use. I really recommend the Go Programming Language by Kernighan, it's a solid book and it's not a super long read.
2020-05-26 23:33:46	@tomasino	I'm having fun with it
2020-05-26 23:33:57	lukee	gbmor: thanks for the recommendation - I'll check it out.
2020-05-26 23:33:57	@tomasino	Just letting my mind wander as I watch
2020-05-26 23:35:18	gbmor	no problem :)
2020-05-26 23:47:23	makeworld	It's great
2020-05-26 23:47:27	makeworld	Thinking of writing more?
2020-05-26 23:58:32		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-27 00:00:06	@tomasino	Oh yes
2020-05-27 00:00:13	@tomasino	I'm barely at the end of season 1
2020-05-27 00:00:43	@tomasino	I'm already looking forward to when I do Patty Duke
2020-05-27 00:07:57	styan	Are there any features other than user-dirs (and CGI, but I am not going to do tha at first) that anyone would like in a server?
2020-05-27 00:11:02	styan	Also, I already wrote the user-dir binary that can be used to send fds from the userdir to the chrooted server.  I do not know how useful such a model is outside of C though.
2020-05-27 00:40:45		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 00:45:58	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 00:57:13	~tiwesdaeg	now I want to use one of my pi zeros as gemini appliance
2020-05-27 00:57:25	~tiwesdaeg	what can I make it do?
2020-05-27 01:23:46	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Hook it up to some sensors and publish the data live on Gemini
2020-05-27 01:24:05	makeworld	I think I saw someone do that with weather stuff on Gopher before
2020-05-27 01:25:15	cmccabe	wire it to your thermostat and let random people in the geminisphere control your home temperature
2020-05-27 01:36:34	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: that was me ;P
2020-05-27 01:37:14	~tiwesdaeg	I'm working on converting the pi b weather station to gemini
2020-05-27 01:37:56	~tiwesdaeg	The main page works gemini://perilo.us/
2020-05-27 01:49:33	kayw	damn, i cant get cgi scripts working
2020-05-27 01:49:40	kayw	i don't know what im doing wrong
2020-05-27 01:53:44	@ben	do you have 20 text/gemini\r\n
2020-05-27 01:55:04	kayw	yes
2020-05-27 01:55:15	kayw	but bombadillo just shows it as the raw text
2020-05-27 01:55:22	kayw	and im using jetforce locally
2020-05-27 01:59:09	@ben	oh i'm not familiar with the cgi in jetforce
2020-05-27 01:59:19	kayw	what do you use?
2020-05-27 01:59:27	@ben	gemserv
2020-05-27 02:01:21	kayw	oh okay
2020-05-27 02:03:16	kayw	yeah i might give gemserv a try
2020-05-27 02:04:22	@ben	it's nice
2020-05-27 02:04:28	@ben	i'm running the cgi-everywhere branch
2020-05-27 02:05:48	kayw	oh? does that just make it so that everything is considered a potential cgi script?
2020-05-27 02:07:33	@ben	pretty much
2020-05-27 02:07:36	kayw	neat
2020-05-27 02:07:38	~tiwesdaeg	You have to make the file executable first
2020-05-27 02:08:13	kayw	yeah i know
2020-05-27 02:08:19	~tiwesdaeg	There's no difference in name for index.gmi
2020-05-27 02:08:44	~tiwesdaeg	The file can be any name really
2020-05-27 02:10:51	kayw	ok im building gemserv now
2020-05-27 02:12:35	kayw	oh that was fast
2020-05-27 02:35:16	~tiwesdaeg	takes a long time on an old pi
2020-05-27 02:37:02	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: That was you? Awesome. What's the gopher link?
2020-05-27 02:37:20	~tiwesdaeg	gopher://perilo.us ;)
2020-05-27 02:37:42	makeworld	The gemini one doesn't work btw
2020-05-27 02:37:46	~tiwesdaeg	I'm running in to weird issues with how the cgi scripts handle directories
2020-05-27 02:37:55	~tiwesdaeg	they'll work from the command line but not in browser
2020-05-27 02:38:19	~tiwesdaeg	well, it was
2020-05-27 02:38:28	makeworld	Aha I might ahve
2020-05-27 02:38:28	~tiwesdaeg	I was playing with scripts
2020-05-27 02:38:35	makeworld	*I might have had the same issue
2020-05-27 02:38:39	makeworld	What server?
2020-05-27 02:38:39	~tiwesdaeg	it's a work in progress
2020-05-27 02:38:43	~tiwesdaeg	gemserv
2020-05-27 02:38:53	~tiwesdaeg	geomyidae for gopher
2020-05-27 02:39:11	~tiwesdaeg	it doesn't like using pwd
2020-05-27 02:39:22	~tiwesdaeg	but if I manually set the directory, it was working
2020-05-27 02:39:34	~tiwesdaeg	I could just convert it all to python
2020-05-27 02:39:46	~tiwesdaeg	shouldn't be as much of a problem then
2020-05-27 02:40:01	~tiwesdaeg	I've also improved my sqlite3 skills now too
2020-05-27 02:40:24	lick	oooo cool graphics
2020-05-27 02:40:32	~tiwesdaeg	right now, everything is kept in txt files
2020-05-27 02:40:44	~tiwesdaeg	I had a lot of fun with the layout
2020-05-27 02:40:48	makeworld	Yeah idk even in Go I had problems with getting the directory and stuff
2020-05-27 02:40:54	lick	is the daily plot gnuplot?
2020-05-27 02:40:58	makeworld	I don't remember exactly the issue unfortunately
2020-05-27 02:41:05	~tiwesdaeg	it gets complicated with line lengths as numbers change lengths
2020-05-27 02:41:07	~tiwesdaeg	yep
2020-05-27 02:41:31	~tiwesdaeg	there are also plots of a lot of data if you dig in to the logs
2020-05-27 02:41:47	makeworld	I ended up having to use this to get the directory: https://golang.org/pkg/os/#Executable
2020-05-27 02:42:27	makeworld	Which is just something that gives the current path of the executable
2020-05-27 02:42:52	makeworld	But using stuff like Open("filename") wouldn't open in the directory I expected
2020-05-27 02:43:03	makeworld	I think it has something to do with CGI, I guess
2020-05-27 02:43:12	~tiwesdaeg	it could be that gemserv is still executing the binaries as if they were in cgi-bin
2020-05-27 02:43:25	makeworld	As opposed to?
2020-05-27 02:43:35	~tiwesdaeg	the directory the script is actually located in
2020-05-27 02:43:38	makeworld	My problem was that they were in cgi-bin, but didn't act like it
2020-05-27 02:43:46	makeworld	Are you using a symlink?
2020-05-27 02:43:58	~tiwesdaeg	no, gemserv has a branch for cgi-everywhere
2020-05-27 02:44:04	~tiwesdaeg	that's what I am playing with
2020-05-27 02:44:17	makeworld	Ah
2020-05-27 02:44:22	makeworld	Yeah I can't speak to that sorry
2020-05-27 02:46:03	~tiwesdaeg	try gemini://perilo.us/ again
2020-05-27 02:47:48	kayw	woah thats neat as fuck
2020-05-27 02:48:49	~tiwesdaeg	it's still not fully functional, just the main page
2020-05-27 02:48:56	~tiwesdaeg	the gopher version works fine though
2020-05-27 02:54:48		nytpu has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 02:55:37	makeworld	Wow very nice
2020-05-27 02:55:40	makeworld	What's not functional?
2020-05-27 02:56:24	~tiwesdaeg	all the log stuff
2020-05-27 02:56:30	kayw	alright cool, i'm now using gemserv
2020-05-27 02:56:52	makeworld	Loads fine for me
2020-05-27 02:57:00	~tiwesdaeg	on the gopher side, you can go back and view all the old logs and display plots of different sorts of data
2020-05-27 02:57:10	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-05-27 02:57:24	makeworld	The server's kinda slow to load btw
2020-05-27 02:57:41	~tiwesdaeg	also, this is a duplicate of the /var/gopher director from earlier today
2020-05-27 02:58:11	~tiwesdaeg	the program updating the log files isn't touching the files in /var/gemini
2020-05-27 02:58:31	~tiwesdaeg	it'll probably break in the morning ;P
2020-05-27 02:59:35	makeworld	Perfect
2020-05-27 03:00:31	~tiwesdaeg	bedtime now
2020-05-27 03:00:38	~tiwesdaeg	it's a project for the morning
2020-05-27 03:01:24	makeworld	See ya
2020-05-27 03:52:46		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-27 05:31:54		anton has left #gemini
2020-05-27 05:43:57	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 05:47:38	lukee	~tiwesdaeg: like the new weather station. Can I suggest to wrap the chart data in ``` as not every client uses fixed text font. That will make them come out nice
2020-05-27 06:58:20		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 07:32:37		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-27 08:07:23	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 08:11:34		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-27 11:15:23	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I'm still not done converting it over from gopher
2020-05-27 11:29:38	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 11:57:25	jba	
2020-05-27 11:57:31	jba	
2020-05-27 11:57:37	jba	
2020-05-27 11:57:43	jba	
2020-05-27 11:57:49	jba	
2020-05-27 11:57:55	jba	
2020-05-27 11:58:01	jba	
2020-05-27 11:58:08	jba	
2020-05-27 11:58:13		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 11:58:59	cat	whoa
2020-05-27 11:59:08		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-27 12:01:07	@tomasino	uh...
2020-05-27 12:03:44	kayw	what the fuck
2020-05-27 12:14:44	xq	that's a lot of XOFF
2020-05-27 12:18:15	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 12:19:45		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 12:55:05	~tiwesdaeg	it looked cooler on my phone
2020-05-27 12:56:56	dkibi	tiwesdaeg: perilo.us crashes castor and asuka -.-
2020-05-27 12:57:12	~tiwesdaeg	it probably isn't working now, since it's a new day
2020-05-27 12:58:04	dkibi	s/periolo.us/an inactive server/
2020-05-27 12:58:08	~tiwesdaeg	basically, the program that writes the weather data to file, is saving that in /var/gopher
2020-05-27 12:58:22	~tiwesdaeg	I copied /var/gopher vo /var/gemini yesterday
2020-05-27 12:59:00	~tiwesdaeg	I'm going to work on it today to expand capabilities
2020-05-27 12:59:26	~tiwesdaeg	my goal is to eventually shut down the gopher server, so I didn't just create symbolic links to the data
2020-05-27 12:59:46	dkibi	I must admit that I mostly tried to access it to try out those clients and the link was on my screen (and is nice and short)
2020-05-27 13:03:12	~tiwesdaeg	try now
2020-05-27 13:08:26	dkibi	oh nice!
2020-05-27 13:09:56	~tiwesdaeg	it's still a work in progress since gemserv cgi behaves differently than geomyidae
2020-05-27 13:12:57	kayw	i couldn't even get the gemserv cgi working last night
2020-05-27 13:15:27	~tiwesdaeg	were you using the master branch or cgi-everywhere?
2020-05-27 13:15:48	kayw	cgi-everywhere
2020-05-27 13:16:19	kayw	i had the "20 text/gemini\r\n" at the top too
2020-05-27 13:16:29	kayw	and it was executable
2020-05-27 13:16:45	~tiwesdaeg	printf "20 text/gemini\r\n"
2020-05-27 13:17:01	~tiwesdaeg	above tha should be at least #!/bin/sh
2020-05-27 13:18:04	~tiwesdaeg	the printf command actually outputs the text and allows you specify \r\n
2020-05-27 13:18:22	~tiwesdaeg	after that you could use echo
2020-05-27 13:18:32	~tiwesdaeg	like echo "Hellow World!"
2020-05-27 13:18:45	~tiwesdaeg	you know, if I could type
2020-05-27 13:19:41	kayw	yeah i was using python so i had a print statement with exactly that, but i'll try it again
2020-05-27 13:20:46	~tiwesdaeg	start with a simple shell script to make sure it works
2020-05-27 13:21:00	~tiwesdaeg	#!/bin/sh
2020-05-27 13:21:13	~tiwesdaeg	printf "20 text/gemini\r\n"
2020-05-27 13:21:24	~tiwesdaeg	echo "Hello World!"
2020-05-27 13:21:40	~tiwesdaeg	I think I have an python example somewhere
2020-05-27 13:22:07	kayw	oh sweet
2020-05-27 13:30:51	~tiwesdaeg	kayw: gemini://libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/py.cgi
2020-05-27 13:31:17	~tiwesdaeg	that server is on the master branch
2020-05-27 13:34:07	kayw	oh okay
2020-05-27 13:34:30	kayw	another thing, do all files have to be executable?
2020-05-27 13:34:52	~tiwesdaeg	only ones you want to run as scripts
2020-05-27 13:35:10	kayw	oh okay
2020-05-27 13:35:20	~tiwesdaeg	so, if you have say, about.gmi
2020-05-27 13:35:56	~tiwesdaeg	and you just want static content, then just use standard gemini format
2020-05-27 13:37:40	kayw	ok cool, i got it to work with a bash script
2020-05-27 13:38:23	kayw	gemini://salejandro.me/test.gmi
2020-05-27 13:41:17	~tiwesdaeg	did my python example work for you?
2020-05-27 13:42:05	kayw	i'm gonna try it in a bit
2020-05-27 13:42:57	~tiwesdaeg	man, work is putting a dent in my morning gemini fun time
2020-05-27 13:49:12	kayw	yeah, same with my school work
2020-05-27 14:04:25	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 14:15:46	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 14:17:20	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 14:17:54	makeworld	Did I miss much? My Internet was disconnected :/
2020-05-27 14:18:28	makeworld	Last msg I have is at 1:47 EDT by luk ee
2020-05-27 14:18:45	@tomasino	we were all talking about you
2020-05-27 14:19:50	kayw	very poorly, too /s
2020-05-27 14:20:04	makeworld	I'm shocked
2020-05-27 14:21:52	~tiwesdaeg	poking around at getting kayw's python cgi working
2020-05-27 14:22:49	kayw	thankfully, it's been solved
2020-05-27 14:23:07	kayw	i'm just a moron and had made my index executable when it's not even a script
2020-05-27 14:23:30	~tiwesdaeg	that would do it
2020-05-27 16:16:57	kayw	well, now i dont know what im doing wrong
2020-05-27 16:17:16	kayw	i have the print statement for `20 text/gemini\r\n` in my script but av98 is reporting an invalid header
2020-05-27 16:26:20	~tiwesdaeg	kayw: shell or python?
2020-05-27 16:27:04	kayw	python
2020-05-27 16:30:32	~tiwesdaeg	let me try
2020-05-27 16:31:16	~tiwesdaeg	av98 like my gemini://libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/py.cgi
2020-05-27 16:31:44	~tiwesdaeg	do you have it printing anything before the 20 line?\
2020-05-27 16:46:22	kayw	nope nothing
2020-05-27 17:17:50	makeworld	kayw: Loads for me
2020-05-27 17:17:56	makeworld	In Bombadillo
2020-05-27 17:21:03	kayw	makeworld: try gemini://salejandro.me/index-cgi.gmi
2020-05-27 17:44:12	makeworld	I see the issue
2020-05-27 17:44:17	makeworld	I looked at the raw response
2020-05-27 17:44:39	makeworld	And you're printing a giant welcome banner before the status code line
2020-05-27 17:44:42	makeworld	kayw
2020-05-27 17:44:58	makeworld	Also: *** Fatal error: The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.
2020-05-27 17:47:59	gbmor	kayw: scroll to the bottom, below the cert https://ttm.sh/QFx.txt
2020-05-27 17:58:19	kayw	oh, thats odd
2020-05-27 17:58:28	kayw	when i run the script it's formatted just fine
2020-05-27 17:59:27	kayw	makeworld, gbmor: https://f.salejandro.me/index-cgi.gmi
2020-05-27 17:59:58	kayw	https://i.salejandro.me/VYk5sS.png
2020-05-27 18:14:14	gbmor	that's odd. i don't know enough about the python runtime to make an accurate diagnosis, but maybe it's waiting for the child process to return and print before it executes the remaining statements?
2020-05-27 18:14:31	kayw	yeah maybe
2020-05-27 18:14:38	kayw	i can just do a multiline comment
2020-05-27 18:14:51	kayw	well not comment, but print statement
2020-05-27 18:18:05	gbmor	ya
2020-05-27 18:18:36	kayw	alright, now it works
2020-05-27 18:18:38	kayw	finally
2020-05-27 18:20:04	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 18:26:21	lukee	tiwesdaeg: ah thats much better - can see the nicely formatted charts now
2020-05-27 18:49:32	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 19:05:04	~tiwesdaeg	I'm still working on it
2020-05-27 19:05:32	~tiwesdaeg	had to talk to int 80h about an issue with the cgi and he updated the branch
2020-05-27 19:05:41	~tiwesdaeg	I am now compiling it
2020-05-27 19:47:03		nytpu has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 20:21:12		exprez135 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 20:23:06	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 20:47:09		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 20:52:49		exprez135 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 20:53:16	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 21:03:18	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-27 21:03:58	makeworld	kayw: What did you change? That's a very strange bug
2020-05-27 21:04:12	makeworld	Oh did you just paste in the banner as text?
2020-05-27 21:05:19	kayw	yeah i put it in as text
2020-05-27 21:43:18		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 22:25:47		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-27 22:30:50	@tomasino	I'm playing the glider album sloum shared on one of his music sprockets 
2020-05-27 22:31:05	@tomasino	my wife walked by and asked what i was listening to, so i let her listen and she's like "who is this?"
2020-05-27 22:31:15	@tomasino	so I tell her, "oh, it's exclusive to gemini"
2020-05-27 22:31:22	@tomasino	"what's gemini?" she asks
2020-05-27 22:31:37	@tomasino	"It's a place for people who think gopher is getting too crowded. :D"
2020-05-27 22:38:27	wangofett	rofl
2020-05-27 22:39:55	wangofett	When you liked things when they were still underground, but underground is too crowded, have you tried reaching for the stars?
2020-05-27 22:41:03	@tomasino	there's fewer people in outer space than in underground burrows, for now
2020-05-27 22:42:47	`epoch	rocket maaaaaaaan, burning out his fuse up here alone
2020-05-27 22:42:55	`epoch	and I think it's gonna be a long long time
2020-05-27 22:43:11	`epoch	or maybe space oddity?
2020-05-27 22:46:00	cmccabe	when gemini fills up, there's always finger
2020-05-27 22:46:17	@tomasino	i do have some wonderful finger content
2020-05-27 22:46:37	`epoch	and whois, which is pretty much the same protocol
2020-05-27 22:46:42	`epoch	[something]\r\n
2020-05-27 22:47:27	@tomasino	please finger all sorts of things @cosmic.voyage
2020-05-27 22:47:31	@tomasino	there's fun to be had
2020-05-27 22:48:25	`epoch	https://archive.org/details/David_Bowie-Space_Oddity
2020-05-27 22:48:35	@tomasino	we even have reverse pings! finger ping@cosmic.voyage
2020-05-27 22:48:45	`epoch	majortom@cosmic.voyage?
2020-05-27 22:48:54	@tomasino	well, tomasino@ works
2020-05-27 22:49:28	`epoch	I used to have a reverse ident service for a while.
2020-05-27 22:49:49	`epoch	you'd connect to it, and it'd connect to your ident daemon and find out who you were, then tell you who you were.
2020-05-27 22:50:08	@tomasino	i curl https://tomasino.org/ip sometimes
2020-05-27 22:50:31	@tomasino	not quite the same
2020-05-27 22:50:32	@ben	curl ip.ttm.sh
2020-05-27 22:50:44	`epoch	I guess i could have the reverse ident thing be a finger or whois target
2020-05-27 22:50:58	@tomasino	yep yep yep
2020-05-27 22:51:26	`epoch	wouldn't want it to conflict with real possible targets
2020-05-27 22:51:28	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/cosmic/cosmic/src/branch/master/efingerd/nouser#L15-L19
2020-05-27 23:14:48	wangofett	tomasino:way more space in outerspace, too
2020-05-28 00:18:37		exprez135 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-28 00:35:00		lanodan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-28 00:37:58	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 00:38:52	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:19:50		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		mmmattyx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		underpower has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		natpen has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		xwindows has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		rak has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		tildebeast1 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		anelki has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		cmccabe has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		lick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		`epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		dacav has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		tuesday has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		sndr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		jeffpc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		m68k has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		wangofett has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		exprez135 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		liberius has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		lanodan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		mk270 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		jdp has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:19:50		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-05-28 01:22:07		Ernoz has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	lick has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	tildebeast1 has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	cmccabe has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	jdp has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	underpower has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	mk270 has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	dacav has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	`epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	xwindows has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	jeffpc has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:22:11	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oqo ben tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-05-28 01:23:47	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:44:22		bard has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-28 01:48:46	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 01:55:11	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 02:49:55	makeworld	tomasino: How'd you get my IP!!11!!1
2020-05-28 03:01:46		`epoch has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-28 03:13:32		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-28 04:01:30	lick	makeworld: lol wut
2020-05-28 05:25:10		erin has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-28 05:25:36	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 10:14:19		xwindows has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-28 10:21:23	▬▬▶	xwindows has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 11:21:15	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 11:21:40	lukee	I'm about to announce this on the email list, but here is a link to my new Windows gemini client
2020-05-28 11:21:41	lukee	https://www.marmaladefoo.com/pages/geminaut
2020-05-28 11:23:39	cmccabe	the website looks nice, lukee. i don't have a windows machine or i would try it out
2020-05-28 11:37:55	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 12:24:34	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 12:38:41		lanodan has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-28 12:46:49	lukee	thanks
2020-05-28 13:22:49	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: what are you using to customize your fingerd response?
2020-05-28 13:23:26	~tiwesdaeg	it looks like I have the option to use -P for a customized program
2020-05-28 13:23:46	@tomasino	efingerd
2020-05-28 13:24:02	@tomasino	it lets you write your own handler as a user
2020-05-28 13:24:14	@tomasino	or, i did that.... one of those
2020-05-28 13:24:16	@tomasino	lemme check
2020-05-28 13:24:34	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/cosmic/cosmic/src/branch/master/efingerd/luser
2020-05-28 13:25:48	@tomasino	yes, it's built in
2020-05-28 13:25:57	@tomasino	that's the default that happens if you don't define an override
2020-05-28 13:26:00	@tomasino	~/.efingerd
2020-05-28 13:26:07	@tomasino	create that file and finger will run that when you get fingered
2020-05-28 13:26:09	~tiwesdaeg	neat, thank you
2020-05-28 13:26:24	@tomasino	http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man8/efingerd.8.html
2020-05-28 13:26:35	~tiwesdaeg	I have finger enabled on tilde.pink, but I was wondering about customizing it a bit
2020-05-28 13:26:39	@tomasino	it's pretty friendly
2020-05-28 13:26:41	@tomasino	ahh, coolio
2020-05-28 13:26:57	@tomasino	yeah, i have all my finger scripts up on that tildegit repo. feel free to steal and build
2020-05-28 13:35:50	~tiwesdaeg	doesn't look like efingerd is going to build on netbsd
2020-05-28 13:59:25	@tomasino	oh poop
2020-05-28 14:34:04	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 15:15:29	login	hi tastytea
2020-05-28 15:16:38	tastytea	Hi.
2020-05-28 15:17:01	login	how are you?
2020-05-28 15:19:57	tastytea	That's hard to answer. Good relative to some, bad relative to others.
2020-05-28 15:24:14	login	true, it's the same for me
2020-05-28 15:24:20	login	how are you compared to yesterday>
2020-05-28 15:24:24	login	s/>/?
2020-05-28 15:28:24	tastytea	I guess about the same.
2020-05-28 15:36:16	login	and how will you be tomorrow compared to today?
2020-05-28 17:10:37	jan6	impossible to answer
2020-05-28 17:10:42	⚡	jan6 drinks tastytea
2020-05-28 18:03:38	makeworld	o.o
2020-05-28 18:04:10	makeworld	lukee: Your client looks really nice! In the screenshots, anyway, I don't run Windows either :P
2020-05-28 18:04:26	makeworld	Do you think there's a way to run it on Linux with dotnet core or something?
2020-05-28 18:04:39	makeworld	I was gonna be cheeky and open Linux support as the first issue
2020-05-28 18:47:50	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 18:57:50		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-28 18:59:32		StygianBlues has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-28 18:59:33	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 19:00:42	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 19:16:21	lukee	ha ha
2020-05-28 19:17:03	lukee	it would be nice I agree. Most of the work of the client is orchestrating the webbrowser that renders the content
2020-05-28 19:17:48	lukee	The rendering of the GMI to HTML is done by REBOL, which is cross platform
2020-05-28 19:18:19	lukee	so I think it might be possible, but it might involve going down the route towards Electron
2020-05-28 19:24:30	lukee	It is - as they say - an exercise for the reader.
2020-05-28 19:24:52	lukee	At this stage I'm more interested in making it a nice experience on Windows
2020-05-28 19:26:56	lukee	So the cross-platform web browser element is quite challenging idea.
2020-05-28 19:32:14		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-28 19:40:33	@tomasino	lukee: you shared the windows one on the mailing list earlier? looks great! I was trying to see screenshots that show more heirarchy + code fencing all at once. Wasn't someone making a demo page?
2020-05-28 19:42:37	lukee	What page would you like to see rendered?
2020-05-28 19:51:04	@tomasino	i thought someone had discussed making a specific "test page" that demo'd all of the possible gemini markup on a single page so we could use it for testing
2020-05-28 19:51:10	@tomasino	i don't remember if anyone actually did that, though
2020-05-28 19:51:21	@tomasino	makeworld, you pay more attention than i do. Do you recall?
2020-05-28 19:51:31	lukee	I think it was mentioned, but I didnt see a link yet
2020-05-28 19:54:05	lukee	here is an example page that has some code fences
2020-05-28 19:54:06	lukee	https://www.marmaladefoo.com/vanilla/marmaladefoo/uploads/geminaut/geminaut_code_fences.png
2020-05-28 19:55:59	@tomasino	pretty!
2020-05-28 19:56:00	@tomasino	:)
2020-05-28 19:56:09	@tomasino	hrm, well, if nobody has made one yet, maybe I should do that
2020-05-28 19:58:54	lukee	sounds good.
2020-05-28 19:59:13	lukee	here is one with some ascii art and some japanese unicode characters
2020-05-28 19:59:16	lukee	https://www.marmaladefoo.com/vanilla/marmaladefoo/uploads/geminaut/geminaut_ascii_art.png
2020-05-28 20:06:06	@tomasino	looks awesome
2020-05-28 20:06:20	@tomasino	one of the nicest clients yet, for sure
2020-05-28 20:10:21	lukee	well I've been a bit obsessed about it. My wife will tell you
2020-05-28 20:25:21	anelki	,shorten
2020-05-28 20:25:31	anelki	oh. is bitbot not in here?
2020-05-28 20:47:43	~tiwesdaeg	nope, were tiny up until a couple weeks ago
2020-05-28 20:47:52	~tiwesdaeg	^we
2020-05-28 20:56:13	anelki	ahh yeah fair
2020-05-28 20:56:20	anelki	I only joined last week
2020-05-28 21:13:13	makeworld	tomasino: There probably is one but I don't remember sorry. It would be trivial to create though
2020-05-28 21:13:27	makeworld	lukee: That's the best looking client I've seen so far, nice work
2020-05-28 21:13:33	@tomasino	trivial is my favorite kind of effort
2020-05-28 21:13:53	makeworld	Just makes me want to get it working on Linux even more
2020-05-28 21:14:40	makeworld	It's kinda ridiculous how the stereotypes are coming out, where we have terminal clients that are Unix only and a nice GUI client that's Windows only
2020-05-28 21:14:42	makeworld	Lol
2020-05-28 21:16:22	@tomasino	castor is a gui!
2020-05-28 21:17:03	makeworld	Yeah, there are definitely some Linux ones, I'm just cherry picking :)
2020-05-28 21:21:10	~tiwesdaeg	are there any http to gemini proxy git sites?
2020-05-28 21:21:25	~tiwesdaeg	I know of a couple proxies, but they don't link to the software
2020-05-28 21:23:40	makeworld	I would email Michael (mozz) and ask
2020-05-28 21:23:45	makeworld	He runs portal.mozz.us
2020-05-28 21:23:58	makeworld	Or publicly shame on the mailing list
2020-05-28 21:26:35	~tiwesdaeg	I need to setup one for my wife to use if I move the weather station over to gemini fully
2020-05-28 21:27:06	~tiwesdaeg	she access the gopher side at https://wx.perilo.us
2020-05-28 21:27:22	~tiwesdaeg	and does not care in the least about protocols
2020-05-28 21:29:31	~tiwesdaeg	if I were smart enough, I'd modify the simple gopher proxy c program for gemini
2020-05-28 21:36:47	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 21:43:41	lukee	thanks, makeworld
2020-05-28 21:44:38	lick	lol publicly shame on the mailing list
2020-05-28 21:55:44	lukee	I've just implemented automatic page level table of contents
2020-05-28 21:55:49	lukee	https://www.marmaladefoo.com/vanilla/marmaladefoo/uploads/geminaut/geminaut_toc.png
2020-05-28 21:55:56	lukee	will do a new build
2020-05-28 21:56:24		login has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-28 22:01:34	makeworld	Wow nice
2020-05-28 22:01:48	makeworld	What's the icon in the corner, some sort of hash?
2020-05-28 22:02:03	makeworld	Also you should reply to Solderpunk's email once you do that
2020-05-28 22:02:20	makeworld	The one where he was like "I wish clients had a table of contents"
2020-05-28 22:02:49	⚡	makeworld afk
2020-05-28 22:02:56	lukee	yes its a page level "placemarker", based on the hash of the current site URL.
2020-05-28 22:03:14	lukee	yes I will. It was on my list and I knew it wasnt going to be hard
2020-05-28 22:04:11	lukee	Eventually I was thinking if a site has a favicon, maybe it could go there, otherwise this is a unique "logo" for each site
2020-05-28 22:04:22	lukee	to enhance the users visual memory of the site
2020-05-28 22:06:19	lukee	my concept of a site is that it is either the domain, or possibly user specific, since there might be many users on the same domain
2020-05-28 22:06:37	lukee	and you probably want a different "theme" for each user
2020-05-28 22:07:06	lukee	so if there is /~username or /users/username in the path, then that is the differntiator
2020-05-28 22:13:48		tiwesdaeg has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-28 22:24:54	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 22:26:03	acdw	Hey everyone! Do any of yall have any idea how to get Firefox to recognize gemini: as a protocol for, say, https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Navigator/registerProtocolHandler?
2020-05-28 22:26:25	acdw	I want to fork OverbiteWX but FF doesn't recognize gemini!
2020-05-28 22:29:15	xq	to natively support gemini, you have to change the core of firefox itself
2020-05-28 22:29:40	xq	for something like registerProtocolHandler, you still need a server that does the translation for you, not possible in-client
2020-05-28 22:29:49	acdw	The way OverbitWX does it is just redirect gopher requests to floodgap's proxy, which is what I'd want to do with the extension
2020-05-28 22:30:07	acdw	have it redirect gemini: requests to portal.mozz.us or proxy.vulpes.one (ideally configurable by the user)
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	the problem is, registerProtocolHandler only accepts a list of protocols:
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	    bitcoin
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	    geo
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	    im
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	    irc
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	    ircs
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	    magnet
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	    mailto
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	    mms
2020-05-28 22:31:35	acdw	    news
2020-05-28 22:31:36	acdw	    nntp
2020-05-28 22:31:37	acdw	    openpgp4fpr
2020-05-28 22:31:38	acdw	    sip
2020-05-28 22:31:39	acdw	    sms
2020-05-28 22:31:40	acdw	    smsto
2020-05-28 22:31:41	acdw	    ssh
2020-05-28 22:31:42	acdw	    tel
2020-05-28 22:31:43	acdw	    urn
2020-05-28 22:31:44	acdw	    webcal
2020-05-28 22:31:45	acdw	    wtai
2020-05-28 22:31:46	acdw	    xmpp
2020-05-28 22:31:59	acdw	(sorry, should've copy-pasted the link instead of the list)
2020-05-28 22:35:34	acdw	it looks like there must be some method of getting Mozilla to add a protocol to the list -- bitcoin is pretty new, for example -- otherwise I need to use a protocol like "web+gemini"
2020-05-28 22:35:37	acdw	which is clunky
2020-05-28 22:37:45	xq	yeah, true
2020-05-28 22:48:15	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 22:48:15	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-05-28 22:52:27	acdw	I *thought* that dat was a protocol available too, but maybe I was mistaken. If it were I could ask the devs over there what kind of steps they took.
2020-05-28 22:59:53	acdw	well thanks for helping xq!
2020-05-28 22:59:57		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-28 23:00:29	@tomasino	i just added gemini as a protocol handler in firefox and pointed it at castor
2020-05-28 23:00:42	@tomasino	is that linux specific? dunno
2020-05-28 23:01:39	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/Qtr.png
2020-05-28 23:01:43	@tomasino	it's right there in "General"
2020-05-28 23:04:29	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-28 23:08:29		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-29 00:06:19		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 00:09:34		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 01:10:39	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 01:23:49	makeworld	Gemini automatically shows up asking me about opening in Castor and Bombadillo without me doing anything
2020-05-29 01:24:09	makeworld	But that might have been because of the Arch Linux pkg I installed them from
2020-05-29 01:24:33		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 01:28:55	epoch	I have firefox recognizing gemini as a protocol already
2020-05-29 01:29:05	epoch	added two things to about:config
2020-05-29 01:29:21	epoch	point it at "uristart" and configure it from inside there
2020-05-29 01:30:33	epoch	that registerProtocolHandler is probably just for if you want to do that from javascript
2020-05-29 01:40:43	epoch	I was thinking that a service that browsers could use to redirect unknown uri schemes to
2020-05-29 01:40:53	epoch	would be cool
2020-05-29 01:41:35	epoch	but probably be the target of a lot of malware attempts
2020-05-29 01:41:54	cmccabe	makeworld: what package was that?
2020-05-29 01:42:22	epoch	There's probably a .desktop file that they came with
2020-05-29 01:42:49	epoch	that contains a line about being able to handle x-uri-scheme/gemini or something
2020-05-29 02:44:31		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-29 07:05:55	▬▬▶	ironzorg has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 07:06:23	ironzorg	hi everybody
2020-05-29 07:06:57	ironzorg	I was wondering if anybody had made any performance benchmarks involving HTTPS and Gemini
2020-05-29 07:07:42	ironzorg	I'm interested to see if there would be any substancial improvements of using Gemini over HTTPS to fetch media, text documents etc.
2020-05-29 07:27:19		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-29 07:43:18	styan	I would imagine that there would not be any substantial difference, because at the end of the day they are both TLS connections over the same networks.
2020-05-29 07:45:02	ironzorg	I expect *some* gains, when running several connections fetching kb/mb sized files
2020-05-29 07:45:12	ironzorg	I just want to know how much
2020-05-29 07:45:41	styan	Gemini does not do multiple files per connection, if that helps.
2020-05-29 07:46:46	styan	I have not run any benchmarks, so I am only speculating. :-)
2020-05-29 07:48:00	ironzorg	one file per connection
2020-05-29 07:48:23	ironzorg	e.g. polling an RSS feed
2020-05-29 07:49:31	styan	Then there are two things that I can think of off of the top of my head.  Gemini has a smaller header, and HTTP supports compression (of uncompressed resources).
2020-05-29 07:51:03	ironzorg	true
2020-05-29 07:56:21	styan	I wonder what the best servers to compare would even be?  Molly Brown and some Go httpd?  Gemserv and thttpd?
2020-05-29 07:57:17	styan	I doubt that comparing anything to Apache or Nginx would be useful for you.
2020-05-29 08:00:05	ironzorg	actually it would be, for instance with RSS the URLs point at random servers who probably run Lighttpd/Apache/Nginx
2020-05-29 08:00:17	ironzorg	s,who,that,
2020-05-29 08:03:09	ironzorg	I also like the idea of running a documentation server in Gemini (e.g. a small wiki or man pages written in Gemini), without all the HTTP overlay
2020-05-29 08:03:29	ironzorg	projects like TLDR could benefit from that
2020-05-29 08:05:07	southerntofu	ironzorg: you mean like serving markdown pages with your gemini server?
2020-05-29 08:05:43	ironzorg	yes
2020-05-29 08:06:15	ironzorg	it's a suitable protocol because it supports authentication
2020-05-29 08:06:27	ironzorg	without authentication you can just use Telnet I suppose
2020-05-29 08:06:28	southerntofu	yeah i've been thinking of hooking up gemini support in my favorite SSG so i can geenrate my blog/docs both to HTML and gemini :)
2020-05-29 08:06:43	southerntofu	what auth?
2020-05-29 08:07:06	ironzorg	Gemini and user passwords
2020-05-29 08:07:28	ironzorg	for like a company wiki that guests on the network shouldn't be able to access
2020-05-29 08:07:32	southerntofu	yeah but how's that relevant to docs?
2020-05-29 08:07:34	southerntofu	ah ok
2020-05-29 08:07:53	styan	ironzorg: My thought was because Apache and Nginx have had so much work and complexity put into them, that comparing it to a simple new-ish server for a new-ish protocol would not really compair the underlying protocols.
2020-05-29 08:08:42	ironzorg	probably
2020-05-29 08:09:02	styan	s/compair/compare/
2020-05-29 08:20:33		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-29 08:22:59	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 08:30:11	southerntofu	i just sent a mail to the ML about DANE/GNS and how to distribute certificates :)
2020-05-29 09:13:11	styan	Are there any implementations of GNS outside of GNUnet?
2020-05-29 10:08:10	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 10:49:20		creme has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 10:49:20		Ekkie has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 10:49:20		lel has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 10:50:16	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 10:51:23	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 10:53:52	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 11:10:27	ironzorg	has anybody made a dumb utility that simply queries a URL, like a very small Curl?
2020-05-29 11:18:10	@tomasino	yes
2020-05-29 11:18:12	@tomasino	there's a few
2020-05-29 11:18:30	@tomasino	gurl and... what did the other one get renamed to... crap, i forget
2020-05-29 11:18:39	@tomasino	plus jan6 made a shell script that daes that too
2020-05-29 11:18:57	ironzorg	thanks, I'll look that yp
2020-05-29 11:18:59	ironzorg	up
2020-05-29 11:19:35	@tomasino	as for profling, my expectation would be that complex servers with lots of processing and redirects will be noticably slower than gemini on the handshake, but once data starts transferring will outpace it due to gzip
2020-05-29 12:41:25	jan6	ironzorg: https://tildegit.org/jan6/geminish/src/branch/master/gemini_get_openssl.sh is mine, if you're interested
2020-05-29 12:43:01	ironzorg	cheers
2020-05-29 14:04:11		liberius has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-29 14:04:11		anelki has quit (Error in the push function.)
2020-05-29 14:13:15	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 14:15:06	▬▬▶	liberius has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 14:30:07	makeworld	cmccabe: Just search bombadillo and castor in AUR, there's only one pkg for each right now. They're both git pkgs
2020-05-29 14:36:03	makeworld	southerntofu  ironzorg: Related, I've been thinking about adding a plugin to some server that will automatically convert markdown files into gemini files using md2gemini
2020-05-29 14:36:12	makeworld	Serving them on the fly
2020-05-29 14:37:51	ironzorg	you could implement a new exporter for Pandoc
2020-05-29 14:38:20	ironzorg	a Github wiki will typically have Mardown and Asciidoc, but there are other formats some of which Pandoc handles
2020-05-29 14:40:15	makeworld	Hmm yeah, I'll look into that. Pandoc support would be cool
2020-05-29 14:40:32	makeworld	I just made md2gemini to support that specific usecase
2020-05-29 14:41:15	makeworld	Also everyone on the mailing list keeps trying to extend the text/gemini spec lol
2020-05-29 14:42:51	~tiwesdaeg	I'm stuck using windows for work this morning, so I installed geminaut!
2020-05-29 14:43:24	ironzorg	is there a standard file extension for file containing Gemini markup?
2020-05-29 14:43:29	ironzorg	I might have missed it in the spec
2020-05-29 14:44:05	~tiwesdaeg	.gmi/.gemini
2020-05-29 14:44:20	~tiwesdaeg	most of the servers seem to be working off of .gmi
2020-05-29 14:44:56	ironzorg	cheers
2020-05-29 14:45:47	ironzorg	it's not in the spec, is it?
2020-05-29 14:46:06	~tiwesdaeg	I don't remember seeing it
2020-05-29 14:47:47	ironzorg	tiwesdaeg: are you Sean?
2020-05-29 14:48:09	ironzorg	err, Solderpunk rather
2020-05-29 14:48:40	~tiwesdaeg	nope
2020-05-29 14:48:55	~tiwesdaeg	I'm just some guy
2020-05-29 14:49:16	~tiwesdaeg	I've sent a couple emails out on the mailing list
2020-05-29 14:49:33	ironzorg	no matter :)
2020-05-29 14:49:45	~tiwesdaeg	I think solderpunk is allergic to irc
2020-05-29 14:50:02	ironzorg	ironic
2020-05-29 14:50:18	~tiwesdaeg	I just quick read and did a search through the spec. I didn't see a mention of file naming standards
2020-05-29 14:50:43	~tiwesdaeg	I think solderpunk is leaving that up to the server developers
2020-05-29 14:51:25	~tiwesdaeg	basically, as long as the server responds with text/gemini, it doesn't matter the filename
2020-05-29 14:52:29	ironzorg	editors like to have file extensions to highlight the file properly, it'd be nice to put that info somewhere
2020-05-29 14:52:49	ironzorg	since the spec documents the markup language, it'd make sense to have that there as well
2020-05-29 14:52:52	~tiwesdaeg	you should suggest it on the mailing list ;P
2020-05-29 14:53:04	~tiwesdaeg	the unfreeze is happening shortly I believe
2020-05-29 15:01:56	ironzorg	I was hoping I could make suggestions to whoever is in charge here :p
2020-05-29 15:02:43	@tomasino	.gmi/.gemini is in the best practices doc, not the spec itself
2020-05-29 15:03:44	@tomasino	ironzorg: solderpunk doesn't come in here much. Official chatter happens on the mailing list. This is informal talk and brainstorming stuff
2020-05-29 15:04:32	@tomasino	i'd encourage you to share that thought with the list. :)
2020-05-29 15:04:59	cmccabe	makeworld: my bad. i thought you were talking about a package for some kind of alternate firefox
2020-05-29 15:05:02	ironzorg	alright
2020-05-29 15:11:07	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not in charge ;P
2020-05-29 15:11:30	~tiwesdaeg	I just thought an irc channel to talk about gemini stuff would be fun
2020-05-29 15:11:45	ironzorg	the topic doesn't mention this is an unofficial channel, so users are bound to ask you things :p
2020-05-29 15:13:02	~tiwesdaeg	enthusiasts often denotes unofficial capacity
2020-05-29 15:14:43	ironzorg	oh, I found the channel in https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/faq.txt that's why I thought soldier would be here
2020-05-29 15:16:07	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, I'd love if he hung out here more
2020-05-29 15:16:38	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like irc has a better pace for discussing development than a mailing list
2020-05-29 15:17:10	ironzorg	I was surprised to see 50+ users here but only a few threads on the mailing list, comparatively
2020-05-29 15:17:27	~tiwesdaeg	we were like 10 users a few weeks ago
2020-05-29 15:17:47	ironzorg	I heard about Gemini on lobsters I think
2020-05-29 15:18:04	~tiwesdaeg	then some articles popped up and now we have a million servers and clients
2020-05-29 15:21:51	~tiwesdaeg	yay, the cgi everywhere branch has merged with master on gemserv
2020-05-29 15:21:58	~tiwesdaeg	now I have to update all my servers
2020-05-29 16:07:36	@ben	the mailing list is so busy tbh
2020-05-29 16:09:39	@tomasino	yeah
2020-05-29 16:09:41	@tomasino	pew pew pew
2020-05-29 16:17:40	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't even looked yet
2020-05-29 16:20:59	makeworld	ironzorg: It looks like I'd need to write my code in Lua to make a Pandoc writer
2020-05-29 16:21:11	makeworld	Which I don't know, and wouldn't be worth the effort to me
2020-05-29 16:21:41	makeworld	Your best bet for now would be to convert to markdown using pandoc and then convert using md2gemini
2020-05-29 16:28:31	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 16:35:45	▬▬▶	bdju has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 16:35:49		exprez135 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 16:36:07	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 17:57:41	ℹ 	anelki is now known as terse
2020-05-29 17:58:28	ℹ 	terse is now known as anelki
2020-05-29 19:04:39		StygianBlues has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 19:09:15	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 19:42:29		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-29 20:49:28	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 21:19:01	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-05-29 21:31:40		plugd has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 21:35:36	bdju	how can I link to a .txt file in the same directory as my index.gmi file?
2020-05-29 21:36:07	bdju	I've attempted with something like => file.txt and it did not work
2020-05-29 21:36:24	styan	"=> file.txt", "=> ./file.txt", or "=> /path/to/file.txt" should all work.
2020-05-29 21:37:02	bdju	oh wow
2020-05-29 21:37:18	bdju	it seems the problem is bombadillo then, I guess it does work via a web proxy
2020-05-29 21:38:36	styan	If the file-name has characters that are invalid for a uri segment, then you might need to escape it.
2020-05-29 21:39:17	bdju	it's just "test.txt"
2020-05-29 21:39:47	styan	Then it seems like bombadillo is "bombing" on relative links :-)
2020-05-29 21:43:51	styan	bdju: The issues seems to have been solved.  https://tildegit.org/sloum/bombadillo/issues/163
2020-05-29 21:44:28	bdju	oh, thank you for checking
2020-05-29 21:45:56	styan	You are welcome, I am happy to help. :-)
2020-05-29 22:28:45		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-29 23:07:45	makeworld	Yeah, Bombadillo is somewhat broken right now unfortunately
2020-05-29 23:07:58	makeworld	Once 2.3.1 comes out it should all be good
2020-05-29 23:08:42	lick	ohhh it was a bug? i was wondering why my relitive links were shitting themselfs lol
2020-05-29 23:10:38	makeworld	Yeah :/
2020-05-30 01:40:10	▬▬▶	adamtkh has joined #gemini
2020-05-30 01:40:35	ℹ 	lick is now known as LickTheCheese
2020-05-30 01:40:38	ℹ 	LickTheCheese is now known as lick
2020-05-30 02:59:04	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-30 03:53:53		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-30 09:42:19	epoch	holy crap I just noticed how much space castor takes up
2020-05-30 09:42:34	epoch	321 MB atm
2020-05-30 09:44:02	epoch	that's post-build ~/src/castor. For comparison, minetest is 135 MB
2020-05-30 09:45:32	epoch	I'm thinking a littler harder of making my own graphical client.
2020-05-30 09:45:51	epoch	probably C and xlib
2020-05-30 10:19:06	jan6	oh wow
2020-05-30 10:19:16	jan6	yeah that is massive!
2020-05-30 10:28:18	pentangle	castor looks pretty nice
2020-05-30 10:28:50	pentangle	 weird that it takes up so much disk space
2020-05-30 10:28:55	epoch	yeah, it is nice and I like it, just hadn't noticed the size before.
2020-05-30 10:30:19	epoch	I'm gonna blame rust's build system storing a bunch of stuff in the dir the project is built in.
2020-05-30 10:31:13	epoch	302MB is target/release/deps
2020-05-30 10:31:42	epoch	libgtk is kind in there
2020-05-30 10:32:14	epoch	46M libgtk[...].rlib
2020-05-30 10:32:25	epoch	28M libgtk[...].rmeta
2020-05-30 10:33:01	epoch	might be able to strip and get it significantly smaller
2020-05-30 10:33:10	epoch	rust might have a shitload of useful debug symbols by default
2020-05-30 10:34:56	epoch	7.6MB for libgtk[...].so in /usr/lib/x86_64blahblah/
2020-05-30 10:35:27	epoch	which someone will probably say isn't a fair comparison for some reason if they care enough about rust possibly getting a bad rap
2020-05-30 10:35:33	epoch	wrap?
2020-05-30 10:35:35	epoch	hrm..
2020-05-30 10:36:46	epoch	rap.
2020-05-30 11:04:58	jan6	lol
2020-05-30 11:05:01	jan6	bad rep
2020-05-30 11:05:11	jan6	rep(utation)
2020-05-30 11:16:00	epoch	the one web result I found said "bad rep", while it makes sense, was usually considered a mispelling
2020-05-30 11:16:41	epoch	when I've heard it the vowel has always sounded like an 'a'
2020-05-30 11:16:47	epoch	which I why I didn't consider "rep"
2020-05-30 11:17:18	epoch	I heard it from things about breaking laws, like cop shows or gangster movies
2020-05-30 11:17:33	epoch	like a "rap sheet"
2020-05-30 11:17:42	epoch	or "getting a bad rap"
2020-05-30 11:17:56	epoch	where a
2020-05-30 11:18:16	epoch	"rap" is the things claimed of you I guess
2020-05-30 11:20:59	ironzorg	https://grammarist.com/usage/bad-rap/
2020-05-30 11:36:51	xq	heyhey
2020-05-30 11:38:36	⚡	xq started another Gemini Client after gurl
2020-05-30 11:38:53	xq	Using Qt now and it looks like i passed the conman torture test already :)
2020-05-30 11:40:57	jan	is there a tool for converting gophermaps to gmi-files? i know about md2gemini, but is these something like gophermap2gemini?
2020-05-30 11:57:25	epoch	could probably be done with a line of sed, but I haven't seen it yet.
2020-05-30 11:58:50	jan	would be great for converting existing content
2020-05-30 12:02:10	epoch	I'll put it on my todo list.
2020-05-30 12:03:11	epoch	g'night
2020-05-30 12:18:23	jan	good night
2020-05-30 12:29:14	ironzorg	do parsers assume that URLs in link lines do not contain whitespace (i.e. are URL encoded)?
2020-05-30 12:29:28	ironzorg	I'm guessing yes, but the spec doesn't say
2020-05-30 12:33:30	~tiwesdaeg	epoch: are you talking about the build environment or the binary itself?
2020-05-30 12:33:36	~tiwesdaeg	in regards to castor
2020-05-30 12:33:54	~tiwesdaeg	my castor binary on netbsd is 5.6mb
2020-05-30 12:34:21	ironzorg	another one, is "foo" rendered in the following case? ```abc\ndef\n```foo
2020-05-30 12:38:33	ironzorg	another one, does "line beginning" mean absolutely no whitespace are allowed beforehand? It'd be convenient to be able to indent a list item with a couple spaces
2020-05-30 12:38:49	ironzorg	if nobody knows, I'll email soldierpunk directly
2020-05-30 12:55:01	~tiwesdaeg	I think a space in a url line would be considered a break between the url and the link description according to the spec
2020-05-30 12:55:06	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-05-30 12:57:42	~tiwesdaeg	so "=> gemini://domain.com/the gap/item.txt My Item" would be displayed as "gap/item.txt My Item" by a client
2020-05-30 12:57:49	~tiwesdaeg	and would be an invalid link
2020-05-30 12:59:49	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure how the clients are displaying or handling anything after ```
2020-05-30 13:00:02	~tiwesdaeg	it still seems like a work in progress
2020-05-30 13:01:02	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-05-30 13:05:02	~tiwesdaeg	heya login
2020-05-30 13:05:59	login	hey tiwesdaeg
2020-05-30 13:24:01	tastytea	ironzorg: “A URI is composed from a limited set of characters consisting of digits, letters, and a few graphic symbols.” <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-2>
2020-05-30 13:25:20	tastytea	I would think that “line beginning” means the very first character of the line.
2020-05-30 13:28:43	tastytea	5.3.2 of the spec explicitly states where whitespace is allowed.
2020-05-30 15:50:51	makeworld	What is up with Petite Abeille on the mailing list
2020-05-30 15:54:35	bard	with the garbled emails?
2020-05-30 15:55:09	bard	if it's who I'm thinking of, aerc couldn't seem to display the emails properly so I had to pull them up in a webmail client
2020-05-30 15:55:40	bard	nevermind, I'm thinking of someone else I think
2020-05-30 16:07:58	makeworld	No I just mean the repeated attempts at extending Gemini
2020-05-30 16:14:15	~tiwesdaeg	 some people just want the world
2020-05-30 16:23:20	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-30 16:38:44	makeworld	v2.3.1 of Bombadillo is ready to go btw, it just hasn't been released yet
2020-05-30 17:10:31	ironzorg	tastytea: a URL is not a URI and that section doesn't specify whether the URL should be encoded, so we're back to my question
2020-05-30 17:10:57	ironzorg	I'm sending an email directly to the author any way, to be sure
2020-05-30 17:28:00	tastytea	ironzorg: URL is a subset of URI: <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-1.1.3>. Percent-encoding: <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-2.1>.
2020-05-30 17:46:27	admicos	when did the mailing list get to 206 unread mails
2020-05-30 17:46:34	admicos	i've only been away from email for what, two days?
2020-05-30 17:47:01	admicos	(ps: does anyone here know of a good cli mail client, preferably with notification support)
2020-05-30 18:15:02	ironzorg	admicos: Alot, Mutt, Pine
2020-05-30 18:15:13	~tiwesdaeg	neomutt
2020-05-30 18:23:38	kayw	aerc?
2020-05-30 18:42:14		Ernoz has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-30 18:47:56	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-05-30 18:54:50		Ernoz has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-30 19:04:19	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-05-30 20:16:00		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-30 20:21:05	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-05-30 20:30:17	@tomasino	gophermap2gmi... i can do that. I have a gophermap2txt thing that's 90% there
2020-05-30 20:30:19	@tomasino	gimme a min
2020-05-30 20:30:49	epoch	^ same situation I'm in.
2020-05-30 20:36:10	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles-minimal/blob/master/bin/gophermap2gemini.awk
2020-05-30 20:36:14	@tomasino	there ya go
2020-05-30 20:36:29	@tomasino	just pipe the gophermap through that bad boy and get the gemini file on the other side
2020-05-30 20:36:54	@tomasino	i'm not doing any code fencing with it, but it converts links for gopher https and telnet
2020-05-30 20:42:25	@tomasino	jan ^
2020-05-30 21:00:29		jan6 has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-30 21:00:48	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-05-30 21:17:11	acdw	nice awking tomasino
2020-05-30 21:18:58	@tomasino	The gsub stuff can come out. That was from my gophermap parser where I was renumbering links to the footer
2020-05-30 21:23:34	@tomasino	there, fixed
2020-05-30 21:24:22	@tomasino	gonna play with code fencing now
2020-05-30 21:28:43	@tomasino	there, now all type i lines are code fenced
2020-05-30 21:29:57	@tomasino	i can write some exceptions for lines starting with # ## and ###, or *
2020-05-30 21:39:23	@tomasino	and now headers and lists are exempted
2020-05-30 21:39:29	@tomasino	la la la
2020-05-30 21:46:56	@tomasino	okay, i now consider it "done"
2020-05-30 22:22:28		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-30 23:58:36	ℹ 	adamtkh is now known as sentinel
2020-05-31 03:30:07		patrick has quit (institute.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-05-31 03:30:07		wingy has quit (institute.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-05-31 03:30:07		m68k has quit (institute.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-05-31 03:30:07		wangofett has quit (institute.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-05-31 03:30:07		login has quit (institute.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-05-31 03:30:07		pentangle has quit (institute.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-05-31 03:30:20	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 03:30:20	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 03:30:20	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 03:30:20	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 03:30:20	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 03:30:20	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 03:54:51	▬▬▶	Gonzo has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 04:22:23	jan	thanks, tomasino! works perfectly :)
2020-05-31 04:33:36	▬▬▶	parker has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 08:09:20	ℹ 	epoch is now known as \_o-
2020-05-31 08:11:10	ℹ 	\_o- is now known as \[]o-
2020-05-31 08:11:38	ℹ 	\[]o- is now known as epoch
2020-05-31 08:37:36		parker has quit (Client exited)
2020-05-31 10:46:00	@tomasino	Hooray
2020-05-31 12:10:34	~tiwesdaeg	I'm smashing solderpunk's python example client in to a CGI web proxy
2020-05-31 13:15:56	@tomasino	noice
2020-05-31 13:20:01	ironzorg	I've extended python-markdown to support Gemini output, no regex, a real markdown parser that supports extension, and pretty printed output!
2020-05-31 13:20:23	ironzorg	if I'm not too lazy, I should soon add asciidoc support, and I'll be able to serve Github wiki over Gemini
2020-05-31 13:20:25	ironzorg	pretty keen
2020-05-31 13:20:44	@tomasino	brilliant
2020-05-31 13:22:37	~tiwesdaeg	https://www.libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/gproxy.cgi?q=gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-05-31 13:22:44	~tiwesdaeg	it's kind of working
2020-05-31 13:25:12	@tomasino	yeah
2020-05-31 13:25:23	@tomasino	choking on port numbers in the path, but i can see black stuff if i remove those
2020-05-31 13:26:53	~tiwesdaeg	hehe
2020-05-31 13:27:14	~tiwesdaeg	I don't think the python example allowed for port numbers
2020-05-31 13:28:22	~tiwesdaeg	It doesn't seem to be able to handle links to anything but text/gemini
2020-05-31 13:31:58	ironzorg	any idea why common font decorations are not supported? *bold* /italic/ _underline_ ?
2020-05-31 13:32:05	ironzorg	s,supported,standard,
2020-05-31 13:34:17	ironzorg	"it's a nightmare to parse when combined together" that's one reason I suppose
2020-05-31 13:43:45	~tiwesdaeg	ironzorg: in the gemini protocol?
2020-05-31 13:44:11	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 14:16:35	@tomasino	there's 30-40 posts on the topic in the mailing list archives
2020-05-31 15:20:15		Gonzo has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-31 16:10:07		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-31 17:08:23	makeworld	ironzorg: where's the code for your converter stuff?
2020-05-31 17:09:26	makeworld	I made md2gemini so I'm interested in seeing it and maybe working it in
2020-05-31 17:10:07	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 18:18:53	▬▬▶	parker has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 20:19:54	ironzorg	makeworld: still on my system for now, I'll work on it next it and eventually publish it
2020-05-31 20:21:32	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 20:36:47		plugd has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-05-31 23:02:03		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-05-31 23:24:03	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 23:36:10		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-05-31 23:37:41	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-05-31 23:38:01		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-01 00:06:57	▬▬▶	parjanya has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 00:51:03	lick	are there any programs like makeworld's gemget, but they convert all links to be absolute?
2020-06-01 01:31:26		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-01 01:31:37	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 03:02:10		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-01 03:06:37	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 03:23:34		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-01 04:39:23		parker has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-01 06:28:15		bard has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-01 06:28:49	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 10:16:06	epoch	finally got around to making a subdomain and cert for gemini
2020-06-01 10:17:59	epoch	but, I have no idea how to do SNI support
2020-06-01 10:27:06	ironzorg	wow I didn't realise there was such a long thread about font decoration on the ML already
2020-06-01 10:27:13	ironzorg	I should have checked before asking here :p
2020-06-01 10:35:58	epoch	> the person posting to the mailing list using text/html emails
2020-06-01 10:36:22	epoch	hrm... I /could/ be posting to the mailing list with text/gemini XD
2020-06-01 10:39:00	ironzorg	epoch: how would you handle "tagging" text that is associated with a link? e.g. in text I usually do `foo[1] … ^[1]: https://…` but you can't inline links in gemini, right?
2020-06-01 10:39:46	epoch	I'd probably just put the link in the middle of the text.
2020-06-01 10:39:48	ironzorg	so you would end up with a list of links at the end of the email taking two lines per ([1]\n=> https://…), or placing the [1] in the link description… ?
2020-06-01 10:40:02	epoch	if I wanted nice-looking paragraphs though
2020-06-01 10:40:03	ironzorg	yes that I don't do because it breaks the reading flow
2020-06-01 10:40:27	epoch	I'd do something like derp [n][n+1] and put them at the bottom of the page
2020-06-01 10:40:54	ironzorg	yea but where do you put the [n] in relation with the link?
2020-06-01 10:41:17	epoch	=> $URL [1] $URL
2020-06-01 10:41:29	epoch	right before it
2020-06-01 10:41:36	ironzorg	yea, I mentioned that, not amazing :p
2020-06-01 10:41:55	epoch	you can pick the visible text for the link
2020-06-01 10:42:13	epoch	I think
2020-06-01 10:42:26	ironzorg	ok you're assuming the email will be rendered, and not displayed as-is
2020-06-01 10:44:17	epoch	depends on how people have their mail clients setup
2020-06-01 10:44:49	epoch	my client wouldn't render it because I cbf to setup text/gemini being handed off back to localhost from my mail server
2020-06-01 10:53:40	epoch	people seem to be misunderstanding the implications of data: URIs
2020-06-01 10:53:51	epoch	they're still just links
2020-06-01 10:54:40	epoch	<a href="data:image/png...">lolcat</a> is a link to a picture, but people seem to be thinking it'd somehow force gemini clients to implement it as an <img>
2020-06-01 10:56:32	epoch	you /could/ bloat up a page indefinately, but there's not really a point because inline images aren't a thing in gemini
2020-06-01 11:04:56	epoch	oh god. "I think it is completely reasonable to specify a set of allowed schemes [...]"
2020-06-01 11:05:01	epoch	nope nope nope nope
2020-06-01 11:06:14	ironzorg	where are you getting that from
2020-06-01 11:06:24	epoch	mailing list
2020-06-01 11:06:52	epoch	Sat, 30 May 2020
2020-06-01 11:06:58	epoch	From: Thomas Karpiniec
2020-06-01 11:06:58	ironzorg	right
2020-06-01 11:07:20	epoch	I'm reading it in my mail client so I don't have a direct link to it.
2020-06-01 11:07:28	ironzorg	no problems, thanks
2020-06-01 11:08:00	ironzorg	it's inevitable when you come up with anything minimalistic, not everybody has the same vision of what consitutes minimalism
2020-06-01 11:10:04	epoch	"So it might be prudent to state in the Gemini spec that
2020-06-01 11:10:24	epoch	  1) urn: is not a valid URI type for links,[...]"
2020-06-01 11:10:34	epoch	uhhhh. I'd prefer not.
2020-06-01 11:11:25	epoch	maybe I want to link to urn:ietf:rfc:1918
2020-06-01 11:13:12	ironzorg	it'd be so productive if soldierpunk was on here
2020-06-01 11:13:51	epoch	If I care enough about these things I'll actually post to the mailing list I guess.
2020-06-01 11:14:49	ironzorg	sometimes hashing things out with IM is better
2020-06-01 11:15:03	ironzorg	plus it's not like there's a handful of users here, there are 50+ !
2020-06-01 11:15:23	epoch	if solderpunk was going to be on an IRC it'd probably be sdf's
2020-06-01 11:30:06	ironzorg	<div dir='auto'>I have a couple of silly ideas for extra formatting:<div dir="auto"><br></div>
2020-06-01 11:30:08	ironzorg	:)
2020-06-01 12:00:13	@tomasino	solderpunk has popped into IRC once or twice before. He does visit #gopher on SDF on rare occassion, but it's not a fun place for him. You can chat him up on fedi though
2020-06-01 13:57:19	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 14:03:11	ironzorg	I like that gemini supports comment blocks by default
2020-06-01 14:03:28	ironzorg	```
2020-06-01 14:03:30	ironzorg	``` This is a
2020-06-01 14:03:34	ironzorg	``` comments block
2020-06-01 14:03:37	ironzorg	```
2020-06-01 14:03:39	ironzorg	:)
2020-06-01 14:07:15	@tomasino	that'll end up halfway read by screen readers
2020-06-01 14:07:58	ironzorg	why is that? none of those lines should be rendered
2020-06-01 14:09:46	@tomasino	the first ``` of a block is pre-spec becoming alt text
2020-06-01 14:09:49	~tiwesdaeg	I thought any text after ``` would be ignored
2020-06-01 14:10:17	@tomasino	if your client doesn't display alt text, you can ignore it
2020-06-01 14:10:34	@tomasino	but screen readers and accessible clients can pull the alt info now from the opening one
2020-06-01 14:10:56	@tomasino	there's an option for it in bombadillo already if you want to test it out
2020-06-01 14:11:08	ironzorg	tiwesdaeg: the whole lines must be discarded :)
2020-06-01 14:11:19	~tiwesdaeg	wouldn't it be something like ```\n ``` alt text\n This is read by a screen reader\n ``` more alt text\n ```\n
2020-06-01 14:11:28	~tiwesdaeg	oops
2020-06-01 14:11:36	~tiwesdaeg	my escapes escaped ;P
2020-06-01 14:11:48	~tiwesdaeg	I was trying not to flood the channel
2020-06-01 14:13:08	@tomasino	there was back and forth about which ``` the alt would live on. current working consensus is the opening one and nothing after the closing one would matter. But it's not been rubber stamped by solderpunk yet
2020-06-01 14:14:58	@tomasino	for search engines, if alt text appears on the opening of a preformatted block it should use the alt and ignore the block contents. If there is no alt it should assume it can spider it. screen readers can prompt with alt and the user can decide whether to skip or parse the block
2020-06-01 14:15:08	ironzorg	I got an email from soldierpunk yesterday saying none of the text following backticks matter, it's all stripped away
2020-06-01 14:15:18	ironzorg	unless I don't understand what's being discussed :p
2020-06-01 14:15:58	@tomasino	if you are working in a visual client, then you can strip it away. I'm just letting you know that it's an active discussion to use that place for accessibility and will likely be in the spec soon
2020-06-01 14:16:25	ironzorg	ok here's the exact quote:
2020-06-01 14:16:26	ironzorg	The current spec is pretty clear that preformatted toggle lines should
2020-06-01 14:16:29	ironzorg	not be displayed to the user.  So, any text after opening or closing
2020-06-01 14:16:31	ironzorg	```s is discarded.  There is an ongoing discussion whether or not some
2020-06-01 14:16:33	ironzorg	kind of semantics should be attached to any such text, to allow things
2020-06-01 14:16:35	ironzorg	like specifying alt-text for ASCII art, but nothing has been officially
2020-06-01 14:16:37	ironzorg	adopted yet.
2020-06-01 15:12:21	▬▬▶	txusinho has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 15:49:52	jan6	DISPLAYED
2020-06-01 15:50:03	jan6	but if it's read aloud, for example, it'd be used ;P
2020-06-01 15:57:19	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200601-accessibility.gmi
2020-06-01 16:09:04	acdw	great write up tomasino!
2020-06-01 16:42:59	@tomasino	Thanks
2020-06-01 16:51:15		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-01 17:35:22	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 18:41:52	dkibi	is ``` without alt text assumed to not be ascii art?
2020-06-01 18:45:33		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-01 18:45:42	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 18:59:22	dkibi	another question? how are people creating atom feeds? gmi is simple enough to write it in a text editor, but I'm not sure I want to manualy edit an atom feed
2020-06-01 19:01:39	dkibi	ah ok you talk about this (my first question) in the text anyway
2020-06-01 19:06:16	wangofett	dkibi: https://feedgen.kiesow.be/ is pretty straightforward, if you've got all the deps.
2020-06-01 19:06:52	wangofett	But TBH it's not *really* that hard to edit a feed, especially if you just use some comments for a template block.
2020-06-01 19:10:51	@tomasino	dkibi: in my write up i suggest that ``` followed by nothing be treated as if the content in the block is searchable and readable by a screen reader. AKA, no alt text was necessary because it contains text content
2020-06-01 19:11:16	@tomasino	and now i caught up on YOUR messages and see you already saw that
2020-06-01 19:11:18	@tomasino	cool cool
2020-06-01 19:11:45	@tomasino	i haven't bothered with an atom feed yet. I'm enjoying doing everything painstakingly by hand for the moment
2020-06-01 19:18:15	dkibi	I use hakyll for my personal webpage, it's neat but quite complicated to use. I thought at first to just this too (maybe even integrating generating gmi content with the script for my http page), but I like the idea of doing things by hand
2020-06-01 19:19:07	dkibi	wangofett: oh this looks nice, it's even packaged on my distribution. so maybe having a small python script that is called from a makefile is a good idea
2020-06-01 19:22:24	@tomasino	i wrote a shell thing for gopher to do it, but here i feel like it's overkill. Make on its own could probably do it parsing filenames and timestamps
2020-06-01 19:22:42	@tomasino	but today i have an actual goal
2020-06-01 19:22:48	@tomasino	gotta get gemini running on cosmic.voyage
2020-06-01 19:58:05		mhj has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-01 20:17:09	~tiwesdaeg	got the gemini ios client installed on my work phone
2020-06-01 20:17:39	~tiwesdaeg	the phone is great for browsing word wrapped text
2020-06-01 20:21:34	@tomasino	that's awesome
2020-06-01 20:21:38	@tomasino	i want a proper android client
2020-06-01 20:26:57	~tiwesdaeg	me too
2020-06-01 20:27:10	~tiwesdaeg	I don't carry the work phone around much
2020-06-01 20:28:06	@tomasino	loggin' bugs in jetforce like a pro
2020-06-01 20:29:48	acdw	tomasino: I too would love an android client. tried the one linked wherever and it wasn't quite as nice as the portal.mozz.us bookmarked on my homescreen
2020-06-01 20:30:23	acdw	I just implemented (VERY basic) history in bollux! Which I'm happy about
2020-06-01 20:31:19	@tomasino	i've been using mozz portal and it makes me sad
2020-06-01 20:31:25	@tomasino	it fails pretty much everything in the client torture test
2020-06-01 20:31:36	@tomasino	but i can read stuff, so....
2020-06-01 20:31:38	⚡	tomasino shrugs
2020-06-01 20:31:51	@tomasino	huzzah for bollux!
2020-06-01 20:32:09	@tomasino	i figured out jetforce doesn't know what to do with %20 in urls
2020-06-01 20:32:10	acdw	:)
2020-06-01 20:32:16	@tomasino	logged the issue
2020-06-01 20:32:43	acdw	oh yes, I tried that torture test with the poral and yeah
2020-06-01 20:32:46	acdw	it was a good laugh
2020-06-01 20:32:50	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-01 20:37:54	admicos	man i should continue working on moonlander sometime
2020-06-01 20:39:12	~tiwesdaeg	you should adapt it to android ;P
2020-06-01 20:40:04	admicos	i don't think android supports gtk
2020-06-01 20:40:14	admicos	would be better to just rewrite it in android-land
2020-06-01 20:40:20		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-01 20:40:29	~tiwesdaeg	currently, we have many desktop and command client clients
2020-06-01 20:40:35	~tiwesdaeg	only one mobile client on ios
2020-06-01 20:40:54	~tiwesdaeg	brain slow s/client/line
2020-06-01 20:41:04	admicos	i don't know why, but i feel like android dev is unneccesarily complex
2020-06-01 20:41:30	admicos	except for flutter, but that's dart, and... it's dart.
2020-06-01 20:42:13	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, it never seemed newbie friendly
2020-06-01 20:42:34	⚡	tiwesdaeg is forever a newbie
2020-06-01 20:42:35	@tomasino	maybe i'll do some stupid vue-native js crap and make a client
2020-06-01 20:42:36	@tomasino	ugh
2020-06-01 20:42:41	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-01 20:42:53	@tomasino	okay gemini://cosmic.voyage
2020-06-01 20:42:59	@tomasino	works except for ships with a space in their name
2020-06-01 20:43:12	@tomasino	gemini://cosmic.voyage/ships/Melchizedek/
2020-06-01 20:43:12	~tiwesdaeg	what server?
2020-06-01 20:43:23	@tomasino	jetforce
2020-06-01 20:43:28	~tiwesdaeg	how did you handle that on gopher?
2020-06-01 20:43:34	@tomasino	gopher supports spaces
2020-06-01 20:43:36	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-01 20:43:56	@tomasino	tab separated paths. spaces in the URL just work as spaces
2020-06-01 20:44:08	~tiwesdaeg	oh yeah
2020-06-01 20:44:14	@tomasino	brb, getting kid to bed
2020-06-01 20:44:29	~tiwesdaeg	I've been playing with http stuff today, so I was thinking in URL
2020-06-01 20:45:17	~tiwesdaeg	maybe you need some cgi
2020-06-01 20:46:08	admicos	oh wow, firefox supports custom protocol handlers
2020-06-01 20:46:10	admicos	https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Add-ons/WebExtensions/manifest.json/protocol_handlers
2020-06-01 20:46:31	admicos	thinking about a gemini extension for firefox
2020-06-01 20:46:33	~tiwesdaeg	Escanaba files work, but I hate spaces in folders and filenames ;P
2020-06-01 20:47:02	~tiwesdaeg	the gopher one needed some local binary
2020-06-01 20:47:19	~tiwesdaeg	that you had to compile to go along with the plugin
2020-06-01 20:47:22	~tiwesdaeg	no idea why
2020-06-01 20:47:43	admicos	oh yeah
2020-06-01 20:47:47	admicos	firefox cannot do raw tcp
2020-06-01 20:47:55	admicos	*sigh*
2020-06-01 20:48:18	~tiwesdaeg	umm, maybe some sort of plugin front in for a web proxy?
2020-06-01 20:48:20	~tiwesdaeg	I dunno
2020-06-01 20:48:29	admicos	yeah
2020-06-01 20:48:32	admicos	but that would be cheating
2020-06-01 20:49:06	~tiwesdaeg	it would make it "easier" for someone who has no clue what's going on, but just enough to understand what gemini is
2020-06-01 20:49:20	admicos	yeah i know
2020-06-01 20:50:10	@tomasino	castor registers the protocol nicely. I appreciate having a handler
2020-06-01 20:50:44	@tomasino	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/issues/29
2020-06-01 20:51:09	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: if you make an adroid client, display the link names only, not the URL as well
2020-06-01 20:51:22	~tiwesdaeg	the ios one does that and it looks like a mess
2020-06-01 20:51:35	@tomasino	i'd want to make them inspectible. Maybe long-press on them or something
2020-06-01 20:51:49	@tomasino	but i probably won't bother cause i have not the first clue how to deal with TLS
2020-06-01 20:51:53	~tiwesdaeg	also, I'm not sure what I feel about how people handle the ``` text
2020-06-01 20:52:08	@tomasino	did you read my thing tiwesdaeg ?
2020-06-01 20:52:08	~tiwesdaeg	I've been using it so that the ascii art is lined up nicely
2020-06-01 20:52:16	@tomasino	about ```
2020-06-01 20:52:17	~tiwesdaeg	I guess not ;P
2020-06-01 20:52:34	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200601-accessibility.gmi
2020-06-01 20:53:55	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I'm totally down with alt text
2020-06-01 20:54:20	admicos	ouch, moonlander doesn't load your url
2020-06-01 20:54:32	admicos	invelid certificate, apparently
2020-06-01 20:54:34	admicos	wonder what's wrong
2020-06-01 20:54:39	~tiwesdaeg	I was complaining about how some browsers put pre-formatted text in a box
2020-06-01 20:55:06	~tiwesdaeg	that graphical windows client with the cool backgrounds does it
2020-06-01 20:56:55	~tiwesdaeg	anyway, it messes with using ascii art as a way of displaying inline imagery and design that goes with your gemini page
2020-06-01 20:57:23	~tiwesdaeg	like on gemini://tilde.pink
2020-06-01 20:57:29	~tiwesdaeg	I use this
2020-06-01 20:57:29	@tomasino	It's only thinking about it as code, not just preformatted
2020-06-01 20:57:31	~tiwesdaeg	                          -=News=-
2020-06-01 20:57:41	~tiwesdaeg	to denote the enw section
2020-06-01 20:59:06	@tomasino	the windows client seems to have pulled a bunch of formatting from github styled markdown stuff. it's cool. Not my style, but that's part of the charm of gemini
2020-06-01 21:01:06	~tiwesdaeg	have you thought about a ships.cgi that takes the links with spaces and outputs text/gemini?
2020-06-01 21:01:47	@tomasino	seems like more work than is necessary
2020-06-01 21:01:54	@tomasino	once the server handles spaces it'll "just work"
2020-06-01 21:02:12	~tiwesdaeg	is the jetforce author working on it?
2020-06-01 21:02:27	@tomasino	i'm generating this stuff in the world's laziest way anyway
2020-06-01 21:02:38	@tomasino	lemme get it into git and i'll show you
2020-06-01 21:02:56	~tiwesdaeg	my dumb proxy is slowly moving ahead
2020-06-01 21:03:16	~tiwesdaeg	I was working on ports in URLs when I got mad at it
2020-06-01 21:03:58	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/cosmic/cosmic/src/branch/master/bin/gemini
2020-06-01 21:04:00	~tiwesdaeg	I wrote some simple if statements with string splits that work on their own, but something isn't working right when it's all together
2020-06-01 21:04:40	@tomasino	and the awk script it references is a modified version of that utility i shared on the mailing list. Here's the cosmic version: https://tildegit.org/cosmic/cosmic/src/branch/master/awk/gophermap2gemini.awk
2020-06-01 21:05:06	~tiwesdaeg	so you're maintaining an almost duplicate set of files?
2020-06-01 21:06:14	~tiwesdaeg	for libraryoferis.org all I copied over was the cgi scripts I made for gopher, changed a couple things like links
2020-06-01 21:06:40	~tiwesdaeg	so web/gopher/gemini are all sharing the same database and files
2020-06-01 21:07:53	~tiwesdaeg	awk scripts look a lot like shell scripts
2020-06-01 21:09:04	@tomasino	awk is really friendly when you don't have to 1-line it
2020-06-01 21:09:26	@tomasino	and yeah, i dupe stuff for gemini & html as well
2020-06-01 21:09:49	@tomasino	it takes up next to nothing on the disk since it's all just plain text
2020-06-01 21:10:08	@tomasino	gopher is master. it gets backed up in git nightly
2020-06-01 21:10:16	@tomasino	the rest just generates every 15 minutes 
2020-06-01 21:11:36	@tomasino	gopher itself makes heavy use of partials & inline scripting that gophernicus offers. Here's the root gophermap: https://tildegit.org/cosmic/cosmic-backup/src/branch/master/gopher/gophermap
2020-06-01 21:13:50	~tiwesdaeg	the good old = lines
2020-06-01 21:14:29	@tomasino	they're really handy
2020-06-01 21:15:04	~tiwesdaeg	does gophernicus allow other filenames for gophermaps now?
2020-06-01 21:15:35	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't been following it for a while
2020-06-01 21:17:19	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: I brought up a user in honeypot that has ~black accounts
2020-06-01 21:17:58	@tomasino	Which one?
2020-06-01 21:18:58	@tomasino	I have neutered a few so far
2020-06-01 22:05:46	makeworld	dkibi: Most people use Gemfeed to generate Atom feeds I believe
2020-06-01 22:20:06		cat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-01 22:21:38	jan6	admicos: @firefox, you can do like overbite-nx, with a native component, and a lil addon ;P
2020-06-01 22:22:03	jan6	hummm, websocket <-> gemini proxy? ;P
2020-06-01 22:54:06	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 23:03:46	makeworld	Test
2020-06-01 23:13:23	makeworld	Let me know if you can see this
2020-06-01 23:13:51	styan	makeworld: I can see that.
2020-06-01 23:14:06	makeworld	Great thanks
2020-06-01 23:38:00	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-01 23:49:34	@tomasino	You are seen
2020-06-02 03:12:31		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-02 03:13:10		exprez135 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-02 03:14:39	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-06-02 03:38:06		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-02 03:59:42		sentinel has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-06-02 04:36:30	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-02 08:23:02	dkibi	makeworld: oh thank nice, that's pretty much what I was about to build myself %%
2020-06-02 08:56:50	ironzorg	what are the chances that the markup spec is going to end up like a dumb clone of Mardown, over time and spec addendums?
2020-06-02 09:13:14	epoch	the text/gemini format could be frozen whenever they feel like and just say "if you want markdown, send it as text/markdown"
2020-06-02 09:14:04	@tomasino	unlikely ironzorg 
2020-06-02 09:14:10	epoch	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7763
2020-06-02 09:14:36	⚡	epoch double-checks that this rfc isn't an april 1st joke
2020-06-02 09:14:42	epoch	March 2016. nope.
2020-06-02 09:16:56	ironzorg	tomasino: Markdown is already pretty good for writing readble documents without any post-processing, and fairly minimal in my opinion, so I'm concerned that the line-oriented paradigm in Gemini is going to hold users back from using it to write their documents
2020-06-02 09:17:00	epoch	how many different mime-types will gemini clients want to implement built-in?
2020-06-02 09:17:19	ironzorg	and in an attempt to satisfy those users, the Gemini spec is going to tend towards Markdown, except slightly different
2020-06-02 09:17:31	dkibi	doesn't markdown suffer a bit of the huge number of extensions?
2020-06-02 09:17:52	epoch	^ yes
2020-06-02 09:17:56	ironzorg	yes it does, but Gemini is very minialist at the moment
2020-06-02 09:18:00	ironzorg	m
2020-06-02 09:18:27	dkibi	I personally don't care how many features text/gemini picks up, as long as interpretation of it stays mostly consistent
2020-06-02 09:18:43	ironzorg	just wondering where the spec is going, and if it's not going to move forward any more I just won't be able to justify using it :/
2020-06-02 09:18:44		xwindows has left #gemini
2020-06-02 09:19:30	ironzorg	not being able to inline links is already impacting how users write, because they can't inline them seamlessly
2020-06-02 09:19:49	ironzorg	not being able to emphasise on some words as well
2020-06-02 09:21:14	epoch	I would have been fine for text/gemini to be pretty much text/plain, BUT WITH LINKS
2020-06-02 09:22:20	ironzorg	I'm still not sure soldierpunk sees Gemini as a text-first language :p
2020-06-02 09:28:12	epoch	well, what are some other formats we could serve to make hyperlinked document systems with?
2020-06-02 09:28:22	epoch	application/latex
2020-06-02 09:28:50	epoch	pdfs can have clickable links, right?
2020-06-02 09:29:48	epoch	as long as your document viewer knows to send the URLs it opens to a specific program that knows how to do the network part...
2020-06-02 09:29:59	epoch	then launch what it receives based on the received mime-type
2020-06-02 09:30:11	epoch	then it doesn't really matter which protocol or file format used?
2020-06-02 09:30:53	epoch	inb4 someone makes .docx gemini site
2020-06-02 09:30:56	@tomasino	gemini's one required mime type is opinionated and seeks simplicity and to limit extensibility. markdown was a major inspiration, but does far more than was wanted. 
2020-06-02 09:31:13	@tomasino	it will not grow much more than it is currently
2020-06-02 09:31:31	@tomasino	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2019/000003.html
2020-06-02 09:31:44	@tomasino	this is the start of the thread of doom about bullets and preformatted text
2020-06-02 09:31:50	ironzorg	I hope the spec isn't going to be hard-frozen every three months, that slows things down considerably especially with an active community
2020-06-02 09:31:56	epoch	which is good, though a slightly more generic name might've been nice. text/hypertext? heh
2020-06-02 09:32:29	epoch	I guess a more generic name couldn't be as flexible
2020-06-02 09:32:31	ironzorg	oh I tried reading, the reflow threads, but realised I only had 20 min not 2h :p
2020-06-02 09:32:54	@tomasino	there's only been one freeze so far
2020-06-02 09:33:01	ironzorg	right
2020-06-02 09:33:22	ironzorg	my hope for Gemini is that it sits exactly between plain text and Markdown, that would be great along with the protocol
2020-06-02 09:35:55	epoch	oh. I'm going to see how the "info" format works.
2020-06-02 09:36:25	@tomasino	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/000444.html
2020-06-02 09:36:37	@tomasino	here's a literal question about markdown, followed by solderpunk announcing the freeze and why
2020-06-02 09:38:04	@tomasino	the official spec freeze announcement here: https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/000463.html
2020-06-02 09:40:07	ironzorg	Text Junior looks very similar
2020-06-02 09:53:13	epoch	hrm.. firefox is opening castor for some reason when I give it a gemini link.
2020-06-02 09:54:41	@tomasino	it registers the gemini protocol when you install it
2020-06-02 09:54:49	@tomasino	you can change it to another app in settings -> general
2020-06-02 09:54:57	epoch	it isn't listed in there.
2020-06-02 09:55:01	epoch	I think.
2020-06-02 09:55:28	epoch	yeah. it isn't there.
2020-06-02 09:55:45	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/Qbg.png
2020-06-02 09:55:51	@tomasino	filter perhaps?
2020-06-02 09:55:53	epoch	it might be my firefox is attempting to push it out to xdg-open or something?
2020-06-02 09:56:16	epoch	yeah, I typed "gemini" in that box, didn't show up
2020-06-02 09:57:14	@tomasino	that IS weird
2020-06-02 09:57:16	@tomasino	magic castor
2020-06-02 09:57:43	epoch	launching a gemini uri with xdg-open is using castor
2020-06-02 10:04:58	epoch	I could override it probably with about:config settings
2020-06-02 10:06:01	epoch	I don't have firefox doing a "dunno what it is, let's just pass it to xdg-open" because wtf:derp gave an error page
2020-06-02 10:14:23	epoch	alright, I think xdg-open was attempting to pass it to firefox, then firefox was using the .desktop file that castor puts into ~/.local/share/applications
2020-06-02 10:16:26	@tomasino	ahh, that makes sense
2020-06-02 10:16:36	@tomasino	it has to fight bombadillo on my system
2020-06-02 10:16:41	@tomasino	so i guess that means it prompts
2020-06-02 10:16:47	epoch	not sure how firefox knows where castor is though
2020-06-02 10:19:46	⚡	epoch greps "Castor.desktop
2020-06-02 10:20:14	epoch	nowhere in ~/.mozilla/firefox
2020-06-02 10:20:19	epoch	:/
2020-06-02 10:25:18	epoch	stopped firefox. moved Castor.desktop to Derp.desktop
2020-06-02 10:25:23	epoch	started firefox.
2020-06-02 10:25:32	epoch	firefox doesn't know how to use gemini links anymore.
2020-06-02 10:25:47	epoch	so, it wasn't just checking ~/.local/share/applications on startup and keeping a list in-memory
2020-06-02 10:26:00	epoch	and it doesn't store the name of the .desktop file in any files in its config dir...
2020-06-02 10:26:04	epoch	so... wtf?
2020-06-02 10:27:44	epoch	share/applications/mimeinfo.cache:x-scheme-handler/gemini=Castor.desktop;
2020-06-02 10:27:46	epoch	there it is.
2020-06-02 10:28:08	epoch	so, it /is/ xdg-open doing it then falling back to firefox if castor is missing probably
2020-06-02 10:30:17	epoch	alright, so, updating /that/ file will get firefox to magically know what to do with a uri scheme it would otherwise not know about
2020-06-02 10:30:31	epoch	without firefox having to be configured specifically to handle it
2020-06-02 10:31:31	epoch	and the x-uri-scheme/merp doesn't have to be in the .desktop file for it to be passed to it.
2020-06-02 10:31:45	epoch	so you only have to add a line to that one place pointing at your own .desktop file in the same dir.
2020-06-02 10:33:34	epoch	but if you don't put it into the .desktop, if the cache gets regenerated it'll probably lose that handler
2020-06-02 11:36:13	@tomasino	interesting and weird behavior
2020-06-02 11:39:50	@tomasino	i like acdw's bollux client. it's nice on ubuntu
2020-06-02 11:39:56	@tomasino	doesn't work on openbsd, sadly
2020-06-02 11:42:27	ironzorg	has anybody made a Gemini search engine yet? :)
2020-06-02 11:42:40	@tomasino	there are 2
2020-06-02 11:42:48	ironzorg	nice
2020-06-02 11:42:50	@tomasino	links to both on the gemini link in the topic
2020-06-02 11:43:24	@tomasino	i've noly used GUS so far
2020-06-02 11:43:27	@tomasino	haven't tried Houston
2020-06-02 12:48:59		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-02 13:06:35	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: I'm getting some iconv error when I run it on netbsd
2020-06-02 13:27:19	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-02 13:43:58	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-02 14:10:08	@tomasino	Sames
2020-06-02 14:35:12	~tiwesdaeg	bombadillo has a big update
2020-06-02 14:35:34	~tiwesdaeg	you can even turn on block quote meta text display
2020-06-02 14:36:59	~tiwesdaeg	sloum said he was going to take a break on gemini updates for a bit and wait for the chaos in the mailing list to die down a bit
2020-06-02 14:49:49	kayw	the mailing list hasn't been the best thing to read lately
2020-06-02 14:51:29	ironzorg	what's happening down there, I haven't gone through the long chains
2020-06-02 14:56:57	~tiwesdaeg	just a bunch of wild west idea zooming about
2020-06-02 15:05:35	ironzorg	someone has already forked it (Mercury) https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/cornedbeef/the-mercury-protocol.gmi
2020-06-02 15:07:13	kayw	solderpunk made both gemini and mercury
2020-06-02 15:07:22	ironzorg	yea just realised
2020-06-02 15:07:25	ironzorg	if you write an article, sign your name and date it
2020-06-02 15:07:48	makeworld	The name is in the URL
2020-06-02 15:07:57	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk is the new google?
2020-06-02 15:08:06	makeworld	But yeah, the date should be there
2020-06-02 15:08:15	~tiwesdaeg	put out two competing technologies and see which ones survives
2020-06-02 15:08:27	ironzorg	the URL is metadata, an article should have the author's name and date at the minimum
2020-06-02 15:08:42	ironzorg	I liked that TLS was mandatory
2020-06-02 15:11:03	~tiwesdaeg	it hasn't really hindered people from making a bunch of servers and clients
2020-06-02 15:15:34	jan6	lol
2020-06-02 15:15:59	jan6	tls being mandatory is annoying, but from security perspective, a very good idea
2020-06-02 15:17:27	jan6	being plaintext-only is..not exactly good
2020-06-02 15:18:05	wangofett	well, in particular it's good when it comes to eavesdropping/monitoring. I guess it's also good from an authentication perspective.
2020-06-02 15:18:23	jan6	authentication is possible to workaround
2020-06-02 15:18:52	jan6	like pgp, where you hide your key in an image, for verification, and plaintext-sign the pages
2020-06-02 15:19:18	jan6	or speak out and provide an audio file where you read out the public key or whatnot
2020-06-02 15:19:31	jan6	but snooping is still a thing....
2020-06-02 15:20:29	ironzorg	what if I'm at home and distributing files on a trusted network
2020-06-02 15:20:52	ironzorg	was making TLS mandatory guided solely by the security incensitve?
2020-06-02 15:20:59	ironzorg	incentive
2020-06-02 15:21:49	wgreenhouse	it makes clients a lot simpler if they assume TLS+TOFU and don't have to make the complex decisions about what to tell the user that current web browsers do (lock, no lock, crossed-out lock, etc.)
2020-06-02 15:22:29	wgreenhouse	and explicitly tolerating the TOFU self-signed option makes this a lot less terrible on the server-difficulty side
2020-06-02 15:22:45	jan6	I like optional tls
2020-06-02 15:22:56	jan6	but not forced plaintext
2020-06-02 15:23:36	jan6	my suggestion would be the *server* has to support tls, but the client part is optional
2020-06-02 15:23:37	ironzorg	interesting
2020-06-02 15:23:55	jan6	so if you have a client that's capable of tls, you will be able to use it ALWAYS
2020-06-02 15:24:05	jan6	but you can also use an insecure client if you want
2020-06-02 15:24:21	jan6	I see no downside to this
2020-06-02 15:25:02	jan6	just ask the clients to all clearly mention that in their helptext, manpages, and welcome screens if there's any, and I see no downsides ;P
2020-06-02 15:25:27	wgreenhouse	hm, I don't think that's a distinction that makes sense. who would the insecure client talk to if all gemini servers that exist automatically require at least a self-signed tls cert to run?
2020-06-02 15:26:15	jan6	also something that seems to be overlooked, is that versioning exists, you can have different gemini versions
2020-06-02 15:26:35	jan6	even parallel, if wanted
2020-06-02 15:26:50	jan6	which is something I suggested, but not sure if got a response, too much mail noise
2020-06-02 15:27:25	ironzorg	wgreenhouse: I think they meant that the server has to support TLS but the client ultimately decides if the session uses it?
2020-06-02 15:27:27	jan6	could have periodic stable "releases" of the spec, and an "unstable" one which can change in any way, at any time, and good ideas can get merged to stable
2020-06-02 15:27:57	wgreenhouse	ironzorg: I see. hmm.
2020-06-02 15:28:01	jan6	I meant that the server supports both tls and plaintext, and the client decides which one to use, yes
2020-06-02 15:28:20	jan6	could have plaintext version only serve "please use tls, no plaintext for you" pages ;p
2020-06-02 15:28:35	jan6	nobody's telling you have to have SAME content on both ;P
2020-06-02 15:29:00	wgreenhouse	yeah I guess can see wanting a scary knob on the client for the case where you know the session is otherwise in an encrypted tunnel (ssh port forwarding, .onion, whatever)
2020-06-02 15:29:12	jan6	that's one case
2020-06-02 15:29:23	jan6	another is writing clients in languages where ssl is tricky
2020-06-02 15:29:52	jan6	like if you wanted to write a client in handwritten assembly code, or some other thing like that
2020-06-02 15:29:56	wgreenhouse	yeah. requiring modern TLS will likely exclude people from writing a gemini client for plan9 for instance :D
2020-06-02 15:31:24	jan6	also I'd like if tls 1.2 was required support, with version above that reccommended, but not required, which would be nice, since tls1.3 is a lot trickier and basically supported on stuff other than openssl apparently
2020-06-02 15:31:29	jan6	*unsupported
2020-06-02 15:32:05	jan6	so afaik, iirc, right now you could have a gemini server that only uses tls 1.3, just some clients would error out
2020-06-02 15:52:31	makeworld	I like that TLS is required for everything
2020-06-02 15:52:46	makeworld	It's a different sort of security paradigm, and it's interesting
2020-06-02 16:12:39	makeworld	Just a heads up, I changed my site cert so you may have to delete the cached in your bombadillo config
2020-06-02 16:26:59	⚡	jan6 would seriously love if client-side tls was optional, not aware of any way to "ignore" the tls part without full-on tls library/utility
2020-06-02 16:27:38	ironzorg	you could connect to a proxy that supports TLS :)
2020-06-02 16:32:31	jan6	sure, sure
2020-06-02 16:33:01	jan6	you could also make a proxy that allows websocket connections and make a proper browser client that uses websockets instead of normal sockets
2020-06-02 16:33:24	ironzorg	we don't say the w-word here
2020-06-02 16:33:41	jan6	websocket is the only w-word I said ;P
2020-06-02 16:35:04	jan6	I mean, it's always possible to have different building blocks, write the tls part in C, and call that from whatever other thing... but that's just an imperfect workaround...
2020-06-02 16:35:47	jan6	I see literally no actual downsides to not requiring tls connections, because the server itself can refuse them if the person deems it a bad idea ;P
2020-06-02 16:42:07	wgreenhouse	imho there's no sin for a client to use "openssl s_client" or stunnel or whathaveyou for its tls clients
2020-06-02 16:42:16	wgreenhouse	tls connections, even
2020-06-02 17:01:50	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-02 17:01:51	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-02 17:02:38	@julienxx	Hello I’m back online! Feels good :)
2020-06-02 17:08:21	jan6	yay
2020-06-02 17:09:27	kayw	wb
2020-06-02 17:12:02	jan6	missed a bit of stuff as expected, most lately some of us finding mercury protocol which seems worse than gemini in about half the ways, and me yelling out how cool it'd be if gemini servers would support both tls and plaintext, and the client could choose either, and whatnot other stuffs, normal stuffs
2020-06-02 17:16:51	makeworld	I would hesitate to call mercury a full protocol yet, it's just an idea
2020-06-02 17:17:27	@tomasino	welcome back julienxx 
2020-06-02 17:17:52	@tomasino	it was a moment of doubt from solderpunk
2020-06-02 17:17:55	@tomasino	mercury that is
2020-06-02 17:18:21	@tomasino	looks like jetforce is getting a patch
2020-06-02 17:18:46	@tomasino	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/commit/9cc4a320c2254ba72f500961cb59c27edb9280cc
2020-06-02 17:20:47	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-06-02 17:25:10	makeworld	Looks good
2020-06-02 18:06:38	@julienxx	Yeah that’s how I read the mercury post too, with a lot of people trying to turn gemini into the web I can understand
2020-06-02 18:06:59	@julienxx	(On the ML)
2020-06-02 18:39:06	makeworld	Hey I finally put my first real gemlog post up
2020-06-02 18:58:12	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-02 18:58:42	acdw	Hello all
2020-06-02 18:58:48	lick	hi
2020-06-02 18:59:42	acdw	What's doing?
2020-06-02 19:15:09	kayw	i have two posts on my gemlog so far, and i just started it yesterday
2020-06-02 19:15:23	kayw	they're not long, but they're something
2020-06-02 19:15:35		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-02 19:17:37	@tomasino	yay content!
2020-06-02 19:21:28	kayw	i should probably announce my site on the mailing list
2020-06-02 19:23:55	@tomasino	probably. :)
2020-06-02 19:24:09	@julienxx	Hey acdw 👋
2020-06-02 19:24:46	@tomasino	aww, and acdw is gone again
2020-06-02 19:24:58	@tomasino	i had something important to tell them about... the client maybe?
2020-06-02 19:25:00	@tomasino	what was it
2020-06-02 19:25:09	@tomasino	oh! not working on BSD cause of stuffs
2020-06-02 19:25:22	@tomasino	was gonna offer them a spot on ~black to work on cross-platformitude
2020-06-02 19:39:41	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-02 19:41:43	kayw	i just tried to add tildegit to authy and got konpeito as the logo that they auto-detect
2020-06-02 19:46:08	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-02 19:46:09	@tomasino	awesome
2020-06-02 19:46:31	@tomasino	konpeito seems down atm
2020-06-02 19:46:38	@tomasino	i know cat's working on that
2020-06-02 19:58:07		parjanya has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-02 20:45:36	@tomasino	makeworld: gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200602-re-replies.gmi
2020-06-02 21:03:25	▬▬▶	a614Payton23 has joined #gemini
2020-06-02 21:03:28		a614Payton23 has left #gemini
2020-06-02 21:05:56		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-02 21:43:56	makeworld	tomasino: Hmm, I see your point. I would want to remove nasty people from my replies as well. I guess with the system I advocated, their reply would be auto-added but you could always remove it yourself. Or it could be on a separate page. But still I get what you meant
2020-06-02 21:43:59	makeworld	*mean
2020-06-02 21:44:17	@tomasino	it's an easy channel for abuse too
2020-06-02 21:44:30	@tomasino	but mostly it's just not relevant most of the time
2020-06-02 21:44:37	@tomasino	you want threads on conversations
2020-06-02 21:45:17	makeworld	I mean I see this as a way to maintain threads
2020-06-02 21:45:20	makeworld	But yeah
2020-06-02 21:46:00	@tomasino	i think what you did in your last post is the best method
2020-06-02 21:46:02	@tomasino	manual, but great
2020-06-02 21:46:06	makeworld	Thanks for pointing this out
2020-06-02 21:46:09	@tomasino	just summarize the links that came before
2020-06-02 21:46:15	makeworld	Oh the listing of them
2020-06-02 21:46:21	@tomasino	yeah
2020-06-02 21:46:36	makeworld	Yeah, it was definitely tedious though. It won't scale, which is the what this discussion is about I think
2020-06-02 21:47:00	makeworld	I mean there could always be a third party system (a la CAPCOM) that maintains lists of post and replies through crawling
2020-06-02 21:47:06	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-02 21:49:59	@tomasino	what might be a nice tool is a back-link utility that can start with a gemini link and work backwards through other gemlogs it references to try and create a thread that you can then serve up as its own thing. It'd be tricky if people start putting "back to main" links in their pages, but you could write exceptions, i suppose
2020-06-02 21:50:46	@tomasino	oh, this is part of a thread, "uberthreadz" will gobble that up and spit out a reading list
2020-06-02 21:51:39	@tomasino	you can feel free to use uberthreadz as the name if you go build it. I don't mind. :P
2020-06-02 21:52:44	makeworld	Ha thanks
2020-06-02 21:52:50	makeworld	But yeah, that's a good idea
2020-06-02 21:53:33	makeworld	That's basically what I meant with what I was saying above
2020-06-02 21:54:24	@tomasino	as long as it doesn't mess with the original author's page, coolio
2020-06-02 21:54:43	makeworld	👍
2020-06-02 21:55:06	@julienxx	I like this idea!
2020-06-02 22:01:19	makeworld	This seems pretty complex actually
2020-06-02 22:01:30	@tomasino	it starts simple, then gets explodey
2020-06-02 22:01:32	makeworld	Because you basically just end up creating a web (lol) of all the content
2020-06-02 22:01:33	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-02 22:01:43	@tomasino	start with assuming you stay in gem-space
2020-06-02 22:01:49	makeworld	It's hard to tell whether it's just a link, or a link that's a reply
2020-06-02 22:01:50	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-02 22:02:03	@tomasino	and check for circular paths and drop those
2020-06-02 22:02:31	@tomasino	favor links with "reply" or "response" or "re:" in the descriptor first
2020-06-02 22:02:32	makeworld	I can also use dates in the filename to try and tell which one is the first
2020-06-02 22:02:46	@tomasino	yeah, that's a nice technique
2020-06-02 22:02:50	makeworld	But still, it gets complicated
2020-06-02 22:02:53	@tomasino	yep!
2020-06-02 22:02:57	@tomasino	it'll take some massaging
2020-06-02 22:02:59	makeworld	Hmmph
2020-06-02 22:03:09	@tomasino	you didn't want an easy project, did you
2020-06-02 22:03:24	@tomasino	uberthreadz is complex black magic
2020-06-02 22:03:31	makeworld	*you* didn't want an easy project haha
2020-06-02 22:03:46	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-02 22:03:51	@tomasino	you saw my solution in my post
2020-06-02 22:03:56	@tomasino	i'm happy with that
2020-06-02 22:03:56	makeworld	Anyway, I've written this down in a not, but idk if I'll start on it anytime soon
2020-06-02 22:03:59	makeworld	*note
2020-06-02 22:04:37	@tomasino	i'm gonna advocate strongly in gemini for alt text on ``` lines and then calling the text/gemini format done
2020-06-02 22:04:41	@tomasino	oh, and giving it a name
2020-06-02 22:04:57	rak	Man, 29 gemini-related emails in one afternoon? That's more than I get from debian-devel in days.
2020-06-02 22:05:26	makeworld	Yeah there's so much
2020-06-02 22:05:47	makeworld	tomasino: Sounds good to me too. The only other thing I can think of would be blockquotes
2020-06-02 22:05:51	rak	tomasino: Yeah, it's a good idea. The spec is a little odd in that it allows for text on ``` lines but this next never gets displayed.
2020-06-02 22:05:55	@tomasino	yeah, but 90% of those emails are from Petite Abeille
2020-06-02 22:06:00	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-02 22:06:24	@tomasino	rak: gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200601-accessibility.gmi
2020-06-02 22:06:37	rak	makeworld: can't you just hack in blockquotes by using preformated lines?
2020-06-02 22:06:55	@tomasino	blockquotes were brought up in the long formatting discussions of 19/20
2020-06-02 22:07:03	@julienxx	This little bee is really bzzzing
2020-06-02 22:07:07	makeworld	Yeah, but it'd be nice to have them in explicitly
2020-06-02 22:07:07	@tomasino	> as the prefix
2020-06-02 22:07:14	makeworld	They came up again recently
2020-06-02 22:07:17	@tomasino	no nesting, like *
2020-06-02 22:07:22	makeworld	Solderpunk was open to it
2020-06-02 22:07:25	@tomasino	but it didn't make the cut with solderpunk's first pass
2020-06-02 22:08:21	@tomasino	they could be interesting, but i'm not fighting for or against them
2020-06-02 22:08:27	@tomasino	if they end up in spec i'll use it
2020-06-02 22:08:55	@tomasino	i want gemini to be the best accessible hypertext solution around, though
2020-06-02 22:08:59	@tomasino	i'm passionate about that
2020-06-02 22:09:06	makeworld	That'd be nice
2020-06-02 22:09:09	@tomasino	we're very close
2020-06-02 22:09:17	⚡	makeworld afk
2020-06-02 22:12:50	@julienxx	I really hope people will stop with formatting wishes on the ML, it’s getting kinda tiresome. The web is already there for pretty stuff after all. What matters to me is accessibility and ease of publishing.
2020-06-02 22:13:33	@tomasino	yeah
2020-06-02 22:13:48	kayw	formatting wishes as in plaintext only kinda thing?
2020-06-02 22:13:52	@tomasino	TLS stuff aside, as i have no clue about any of that, I feel like the spec is 98% there
2020-06-02 22:14:14	@tomasino	a few days ago people were asking for frames too
2020-06-02 22:14:46	@tomasino	i don't want to be rude, but I wish there was a quick way to tell them to go read the mailing list archives first. But that's kind of an RTFM approach which I hate
2020-06-02 22:15:38	@tomasino	perhaps someone with WAY more time on their hands than I have could wiki-fy the spec and reference with footnotes each part of it back to the threads in the mailing list that led to it
2020-06-02 22:15:49	@tomasino	but even if we had that, people wouldn't read it
2020-06-02 22:15:52	@tomasino	so, poo
2020-06-02 22:35:41	@julienxx	I think a lot of people misread the overview of the protocol and think it might be an alternative www with all the bells and whistles
2020-06-02 22:41:07	@julienxx	But maybe I’m just plain wrong and it’s just a bias I have. I hope it will settle down a bit and we can move on toward doing stuff with what is available. The alt-text would be nice though
2020-06-02 22:41:27	makeworld	A wiki would be good to have
2020-06-02 22:43:41	makeworld	Also, naming things is hard
2020-06-02 22:43:52	makeworld	Why don't we have programmers working on that problem huh
2020-06-02 22:44:53	makeworld	tom seems to have this solved though, lol
2020-06-03 01:10:08	@tomasino	people put too much investment into naming stuff
2020-06-03 01:10:21	@tomasino	call it something stupid!
2020-06-03 01:10:37	@tomasino	gemini wiki? how about "archibald"?
2020-06-03 01:10:42	@tomasino	why? no clue. just popped in my head
2020-06-03 02:03:23	makeworld	Good advice
2020-06-03 02:03:25	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/go-gemini
2020-06-03 02:03:45	makeworld	I'm not gonna make a public post about this, but if anyone uses Go this might be helpful ^^
2020-06-03 02:03:50	makeworld	It's a Gemini library for Go
2020-06-03 02:04:01	makeworld	But it's still alpha/beta
2020-06-03 02:34:08	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 03:20:10		tuesday has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-03 03:49:58		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-03 04:56:35	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 05:40:10		notandinus has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-03 05:42:02		creme has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-03 05:42:02		lel has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-03 05:44:48	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 05:46:51	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 05:56:39		creme has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-03 05:57:50	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 06:27:59		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-03 07:37:58	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 07:37:59	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-03 08:28:30	@julienxx	tomasino: great to read cosmic.voyage on gemini what a perfect match :)
2020-06-03 08:28:44	@tomasino	right?!
2020-06-03 08:28:47	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-03 08:29:34	@tomasino	i was wating on michael to patch jetforce's url encode/decode bug
2020-06-03 08:29:43	@tomasino	he did that in today's update, so here we are
2020-06-03 08:31:13	@tomasino	maybe i'll get a few new writers out of the deal too
2020-06-03 08:33:05	ironzorg	fun
2020-06-03 08:52:55	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 10:10:35		bard has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-06-03 10:10:42	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 10:41:33	ironzorg	I'd like Gemini to look more something like the following, any thoughts? http://dpaste.com/0PQPVEN
2020-06-03 10:42:06	ironzorg	please be gentle, this is a brain dump, so some stupid corner cases might be obvious but I haven't thought of them :)
2020-06-03 10:43:56	@tomasino	i think you're better off just serving text/markdown then
2020-06-03 10:44:51	ironzorg	I think this is still a fair distance off Markdown https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/basics
2020-06-03 10:46:23	@tomasino	i don't think you'll get any of the inline things you're looking for here into text/gemini
2020-06-03 10:47:06	ironzorg	yea that's fine, I'm looking to use Gemini solely as a text format
2020-06-03 10:47:35	@tomasino	i suspect people will decorate with the bold and underlines in their text from habit
2020-06-03 10:47:48	ironzorg	I'm not advocating for any of this to be implemented btw, just need to get it out of my head :)
2020-06-03 10:47:55	jan6	this looks very much like just a markdown extention
2020-06-03 10:47:55	@tomasino	if clients don't support it, it doesn't affect anything. If they do, cool
2020-06-03 10:48:20	@tomasino	perhaps not /italic/
2020-06-03 10:48:34	@tomasino	but *bold* is something I do in plain text for emphasis sometimes anyway
2020-06-03 10:48:41	ironzorg	yea
2020-06-03 10:48:51	jan6	though really, if I got bold and italic and monospace and links, that's all I need for formatting anyway
2020-06-03 10:49:50	ironzorg	you can't expect people to sift through ten paragraphs of your prose, so emphasising text is a big help for everybody
2020-06-03 10:50:15	ironzorg	I don't think I've ever made it through a single of Torvalds emails because the only emphasis he does is CAPITALISE
2020-06-03 10:50:21	ironzorg	and it's generally an insult
2020-06-03 10:50:25	jan6	hmmmm, while complicating the spec slightly, one could actually implement formatting "inline" client side, while being separate lines on the raw response!
2020-06-03 10:51:30	@tomasino	authoring a meta-format already jan6?
2020-06-03 10:51:33	jan6	you could say that line starting with / can optionally be rendered italic, but should be joined together with previous and next line
2020-06-03 10:51:49	jan6	which means that
2020-06-03 10:51:52	jan6	hello
2020-06-03 10:51:55	jan6	/ there
2020-06-03 10:51:56	jan6	sir
2020-06-03 10:52:06	jan6	would become hello there sir
2020-06-03 10:52:10	jan6	all in one line
2020-06-03 10:52:21	jan6	and it'd be optional if it should be italic or bold
2020-06-03 10:52:29	jan6	could also extend it to links
2020-06-03 10:52:46	jan6	if you wanted italic on a separate line, you just put an empty line before and after
2020-06-03 10:52:49	ironzorg	until slash becomes a special column0 character in the actual spec :)
2020-06-03 10:53:00	jan6	I mean, it could be put to spec
2020-06-03 10:53:01	jan6	like that
2020-06-03 10:53:26	ironzorg	I think allowing text decoration to be inline would be more convenient
2020-06-03 10:53:33	ironzorg	it's already hard enough with links :p
2020-06-03 10:53:44	jan6	a big point currently is that you do NOT need inline shenanigans
2020-06-03 10:54:03	jan6	that you only read a few characters off of the start of the line and know exactly how to format it
2020-06-03 10:54:07	@tomasino	you can process an entire text/gemini file from top to bottom in a single pass, line by line
2020-06-03 10:54:09	@tomasino	that's awesome
2020-06-03 10:54:16	jan6	my idea would fit in with that ;P
2020-06-03 10:54:19	@tomasino	that means you could potentially turn it into a stream
2020-06-03 10:55:38	@tomasino	but as i said, *bold* and _underline_ don't break anything if you just start using them. spec or not they're understandable and won't break screen readers. It'll just be like "quote"
2020-06-03 10:55:55	jan6	asterisk-bold-asterisk
2020-06-03 10:56:29	@tomasino	yep yep
2020-06-03 10:58:05	ironzorg	must be tough being in charge of the spec, no wonder there was a 3 month total freeze
2020-06-03 10:58:28	@tomasino	it's easy for people to come in from left field and just start wishlisting
2020-06-03 10:59:03	@tomasino	oh, regarding *bold*... there was the clarification just made to list items so that the line starts with *[space] to differentiate from *bold* because *bold* is already in such wide practice
2020-06-03 10:59:10	jan6	I'd really like my branching idea, btw (also the clear separation of the protocol, and text/gemini specs)
2020-06-03 10:59:22	ironzorg	yes exactly tomasino
2020-06-03 10:59:29	@tomasino	at least it's got a separate section now, jan6
2020-06-03 10:59:44	ironzorg	hence starting every special line with a space character, but I think soldier already had that in mind
2020-06-03 10:59:50	ironzorg	he mentions it somewhere in the ML
2020-06-03 11:00:18	@tomasino	we discussed it as an early option instead of the ``` thing
2020-06-03 12:10:10	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 12:19:17		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-03 12:33:54	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 12:33:54	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-03 13:08:15	⚡	tiwesdaeg yawns
2020-06-03 15:04:32	makeworld	gemini://mozz.us:1965/files/rfc_gemini_favicon.gmi
2020-06-03 15:04:38	makeworld	What do you guys think about this?
2020-06-03 15:05:03	makeworld	It breaks the one request per page idea that I like, but it's also completely optional so it's maybe not a big deal?
2020-06-03 15:06:02	ironzorg	"motivation: TODO" uh oh
2020-06-03 15:11:11	@tomasino	i don't think i'd bother to use it
2020-06-03 15:11:41	@tomasino	and honestly, this is exactly the type of "extending the protocol" that solderpunk worries about
2020-06-03 15:11:55	@tomasino	it's meaningless and display only
2020-06-03 15:12:17	@tomasino	it doesn't actively harm users or servers, so that's nice
2020-06-03 15:12:26	@tomasino	but it feels just completely unnecessary
2020-06-03 15:15:00	dkibi	emojis are not es widely supported as one would think: I, as an urxvt users, only see tofu. and in the next step wonder why not more general glyps e.g. 한 renders prefectly fine for me and can also serve as an icon.
2020-06-03 15:16:41	jan6	⁖
2020-06-03 15:16:49	jan6	♧
2020-06-03 15:27:25	~tiwesdaeg	🍌
2020-06-03 15:28:57	wgreenhouse	dkibi: yes, font fallback in *nix is indeed a wildly inconsistent mess
2020-06-03 15:29:45	wgreenhouse	best practice is probably to use fontconfig but there is every chance that [u]rxvt instead does some sort of hardcoded fallback thing, or expects you to manually maintain a font list
2020-06-03 15:30:10	wgreenhouse	you might try installing the Symbola font on your system and see what happens; many programs look to that as a fallback
2020-06-03 15:34:59	jan6	urxvt ain't that good at unicode anyway
2020-06-03 15:35:23	jan6	I've once read someone comment that it's worse than normal rxvt, or xterm, or something like that, lol
2020-06-03 15:36:08	dkibi	in my understanding this is actually a more fundamental problem with urxvt's unicode handling
2020-06-03 15:36:16	dkibi	but I'm too lazy to switch ^^
2020-06-03 15:36:57	wgreenhouse	jan6: the longer I'm around, the more impressed I am with the work that has gone into xterm
2020-06-03 15:37:29	wgreenhouse	also all those huge PDFs on invisible-island documenting VT history and quirks are fascinating
2020-06-03 15:37:58	wgreenhouse	rendering "plain text" it turns out is a hard problem
2020-06-03 15:38:26	jan6	huh
2020-06-03 15:38:35	jan6	xterm code is a mess though, as I heard
2020-06-03 15:38:48	wgreenhouse	well it's like any ancient C codebase
2020-06-03 15:38:52	jan6	mostly because of all the tons of legacy code and tons of different people
2020-06-03 15:39:05	wgreenhouse	you are in a forest of macros all alike
2020-06-03 15:39:40	⚡	jan6 wonders what a minimal utf8 + standard ansi escape sequences supporting terminal would be like
2020-06-03 15:40:11	wgreenhouse	jan6: "standard escape sequences" is part of the problem, which DEC hardware are you pretending to be :P
2020-06-03 15:40:14	wgreenhouse	or some hybrid
2020-06-03 15:40:32	jan6	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#CSI_sequences
2020-06-03 15:40:34	jan6	these ones
2020-06-03 15:40:59	jan6	all of them
2020-06-03 15:41:35	dkibi	I think I will take the chance to plug this project of mine: https://git.beepboop.network/hansjoerg/hvif-light a renderer for Haiku Vector Icons (in a very early state)
2020-06-03 15:42:31	jan6	cool
2020-06-03 15:42:38	jan6	I read haiku icons are a cool format
2020-06-03 15:43:21	jan6	love some tiny files
2020-06-03 15:45:22	dkibi	it is. now that I know it a bit better I see the more ugly bits, but it's quite nice overall.
2020-06-03 15:47:41	dkibi	some featuers are easy with antigrain geometry, but tricky to implement independently: there is a transform that can use the outline of a stroke as a path for further strokes. cairo doesn't have such a feature and I found a ML post that said that a partial implementation was abandoned because of numeric instabilities
2020-06-03 15:48:03	wgreenhouse	jan6: there is a much longer list of CSIs than that, that varied with particular model numbers of hardware terminal
2020-06-03 15:48:13	wgreenhouse	xterm picked to mostly be a VT220 which looks like what we actually want
2020-06-03 15:48:18	wgreenhouse	(VT100 is too barebones)
2020-06-03 15:48:35	dkibi	fortunately its utility is quite restricted in hvif and hence not in wide use
2020-06-03 15:49:56	jan6	why's vt100 too barebones?
2020-06-03 15:50:19	jan6	all you really need is colors, bold/dim, cursor position, and clear line, pretty much
2020-06-03 15:50:23	wgreenhouse	jan6: no color in vt100
2020-06-03 15:50:29	wgreenhouse	https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h3-Functions-using-CSI-_-ordered-by-the-final-character_s_
2020-06-03 15:50:35	wgreenhouse	btw is a fuller list of CSIs
2020-06-03 15:51:04	wgreenhouse	somewhere that guy has actually stashed the hardware manuals for these terminals, too, can't find that link right now
2020-06-03 15:51:23	jan6	lol
2020-06-03 15:57:28	wgreenhouse	ah, further down that same page, https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html#h3-Technical-manuals
2020-06-03 17:06:21	kayw	does anyone have a link for the plan9 client that was released
2020-06-03 17:32:12	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-06-03 17:42:56	@julienxx	kayw: https://git.sr.ht/~ft/gemnine
2020-06-03 17:43:06	kayw	awesome, thanks
2020-06-03 17:43:12	kayw	im gonna try and get it running
2020-06-03 17:44:46	@julienxx	It’s pretty good!
2020-06-03 17:46:27	kayw	I joined the plan9 bootcamp that SDF has going on right now, so i'm currently dicking around on plan9
2020-06-03 17:48:31	@julienxx	Cool! I should join too as I know next to nothing :) Is it good?
2020-06-03 17:52:33	kayw	As of right now, the main goal is to get drawterm setup, and have yourself login
2020-06-03 17:52:50	kayw	also, side note
2020-06-03 17:53:22	kayw	i had an issue with DNS stuff and running `DNSSERVER=8.8.8.8` before running `ndb/dns -r` will fix it
2020-06-03 17:55:27	makeworld	Boo, use 1.1.1.1
2020-06-03 17:55:28	wgreenhouse	kayw: have sometimes considered getting an sdf acct just for the fact that they still have a plan9 system available to play with
2020-06-03 17:55:28	makeworld	:)
2020-06-03 17:55:55	kayw	yeah, it's good
2020-06-03 17:56:09	kayw	also, i just used 8.8.8.8 so i could connect
2020-06-03 17:56:34	wgreenhouse	do they also still have opengenera (lisp machine)? I see it listed in their propaganda
2020-06-03 17:58:51	kayw	also i keep getting these weird chars whenever i press shift... https://i.salejandro.me/aQk0fL.png
2020-06-03 18:00:22	wgreenhouse	wow
2020-06-03 18:00:25	wgreenhouse	very zalgotext
2020-06-03 19:23:26	wangofett	zalgo - he comes
2020-06-03 20:14:44	makeworld	H̢̧̛̜̺̻̯͉͚̞̤̫̳̑͛͊͝ę̷̵̜̘͕̣̮̺ͣ̇͌ͯ͛ͯ̿͗̌̾ ͆ͯ̏ͬ̓̒̉ͮͭͬ͋͏̱̼̗̲̦̼̭̬͖̗̱̮̀́͘͘c̞̮̯̬͙͕̐̏̓̑͂͑̊ͦͩͦͯ͐ͪ͡ơ̖̳̰͍͈͈̮͗ͯ͛͘͞m̵̵̢̦͇̟̗͙͕͔̤̘̪̰̝̺̃͑ͣͨ̋̇̒͆̅̎ͭͥͤ̅ͨ̓͆̎̍͠ę̸̵̬̠̠̮̥͙̜̭ͨ̇́̊ͬͩ̌̒̃̃̊̒͆͢ͅ
2020-06-03 20:14:44	makeworld	ş̴̺̱͉̪̰͚̰̜̠̓ͩ̈́ͥ̌̍̏̈̓͑ͯ̍͐̅͜͠͡
2020-06-03 20:22:02	wgreenhouse	impressed how well my terminal rendered zalgo
2020-06-03 20:22:44	lick	lol
2020-06-03 20:34:12	kayw	wow, mind did not render well
2020-06-03 20:34:20	kayw	s/nd/ne/
2020-06-03 20:37:40	wgreenhouse	I mean it rendered like zalgo, i.e. bleeding over the lines
2020-06-03 20:37:47	wgreenhouse	technically not "well" Ж)
2020-06-03 21:38:35		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-03 22:15:34	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 00:29:00		nytpu has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-04 02:57:19	epoch	17:58 < kayw> also i keep getting these weird chars whenever i press shift... https://i.salejandro.me/aQk0fL.png
2020-06-04 02:57:34	epoch	it kinds of looks like the head of an android
2020-06-04 02:57:45	epoch	with the right half shadowed
2020-06-04 02:58:09	epoch	and the black line across the face like an eye-band, and you can see a pixel of black mouth coming out of the shadow
2020-06-04 02:58:45	epoch	no idea what it'd be otherwise
2020-06-04 03:01:46	kayw	yeah dude, i've got no clue what it is
2020-06-04 06:26:38		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-04 07:12:21	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 07:12:22	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-04 08:03:03	xq	heyhoh
2020-06-04 08:07:58	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 08:23:22	@tomasino	ho-hey!
2020-06-04 08:27:45	@julienxx	hello, how's everyone doing?
2020-06-04 08:27:56	@tomasino	swimmingly
2020-06-04 08:27:58	@tomasino	you?
2020-06-04 08:31:57	@julienxx	pretty good, getting used to my new place
2020-06-04 08:34:21	@tomasino	oh right, the move!
2020-06-04 08:34:24	@tomasino	that's awesome
2020-06-04 08:37:34	@julienxx	my space is more than twice the surface of the previous, that's so strange
2020-06-04 08:39:22	@tomasino	just lie down in the middle and sprawl for a bit
2020-06-04 08:59:27	xq	oh nice!
2020-06-04 08:59:31	xq	having more place to live is great
2020-06-04 09:01:28	xq	the mailing list on "new features for gemini" is exploding :D
2020-06-04 09:02:53	@julienxx	I don't get the use-case for all these weird urls
2020-06-04 09:03:18	xq	well, a lot of URLs are not *that* bad
2020-06-04 09:03:26	xq	like phone:… or mailto:
2020-06-04 09:03:44	xq	but for gemini, data url is just not the way it's meant to be used
2020-06-04 09:03:45	xq	ain't nobody can read those
2020-06-04 09:13:43	@tomasino	i beginning to sense that person that keeps posting all the URL nonsense is trolling or else really REALLY doesn't get it
2020-06-04 09:17:19	ironzorg	Petite Abeille?
2020-06-04 09:19:01	@tomasino	yeah
2020-06-04 09:21:57	@julienxx	I vote trolling, their posts are exhausting
2020-06-04 09:24:43	ironzorg	so the argument is about whether Gemini should specify which URL types are allowed in link lines, or if it should let clients decide what constitutes a URL, or something in between?
2020-06-04 09:25:20	ironzorg	it's an interesting question, if I understand correctly
2020-06-04 09:27:54	@tomasino	solderpunk wants links to be links. petite abeille keeps going down deep paths explaining all the shitty htings you can do with URLs that aren't links at all but rather inline shit
2020-06-04 09:28:00	@tomasino	which completely misses the point
2020-06-04 09:28:48	@tomasino	"but what if we use a data url bullshit to embed a whole bunch of data that evaluates to a vcard" ... just link to a vcard
2020-06-04 09:30:53	ironzorg	in my experience with programming/engineering, these are the two POVs there are in the wild: the more liberal view of allowing/facilitating features whenever they can be used, and the more conservative view that wants consistency and predictability over all (and sometimes over convenience of use)
2020-06-04 09:31:21	▬▬▶	sysdharma has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 09:31:36	ironzorg	the two views are orthogonal, there's no right or wrong, and a compromise can lead to the consensus trap…
2020-06-04 09:33:13	ironzorg	but I think Petite Abeille doesn't understand the other side's mindset, and just spams examples hoping one would magically convince SP
2020-06-04 09:33:25	ironzorg	it's not trolling
2020-06-04 09:37:23	@julienxx	I really don't think so, PA is having fun torturing the spec for me. Whey they contribute with gemini content or software I'll change my mind.
2020-06-04 09:37:33	styan	I am reading the latest post, and it is basically trolling solderpunk with the concept of auto-executing shell scripts embedded in data URLs...
2020-06-04 09:38:45	styan	At least, it caused me to shudder at the thought.  Shellscript.
2020-06-04 09:39:39	styan	ironzorg: Also, Lisp seems like it fits both of your two POVs :-)
2020-06-04 09:39:57	ironzorg	remember the times when people were running Java applets in their browsers, and saw now problems with it? I don't know what's going through his mind, it's not self-evident there's malicious intent :)
2020-06-04 09:40:14	ironzorg	styan: does it?
2020-06-04 09:41:44	styan	Lisp the language is composed entirely of explicitly predictable S-expressions, while also allowing unlimited freedom in the form of macros.  I thought that sounded like both of the things.
2020-06-04 09:43:14	@tomasino	the goals of the project and repeated explanation of the desires of what it stands for are very clearly opposed to that liberal view you're talking about ironzorg. I'm running out of good faith in petite
2020-06-04 09:43:34	styan	But, in that line of thinking, every turing-complete language can be hammered into that hole.
2020-06-04 09:45:57	ironzorg	styan: I get your example, I think this is what SP wants to avoid, c.f. https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/001241.html grep what the heck do I do with a tag: link?
2020-06-04 09:46:14	ironzorg	leaving the field open to interpretation
2020-06-04 09:47:07	ironzorg	tomasino: I understand that, but a liberal type does not see a specification as a rulebook, more like a list that is always extensible because editing it costs so little in itself :)
2020-06-04 09:47:44	jan6	anything can be abused with sufficient will
2020-06-04 09:48:11	ironzorg	I'm behind SP on that one anyway, I've read his emails and I agree with his concerns, so w8&see
2020-06-04 09:48:20	jan6	#parts of urls also exist
2020-06-04 09:48:40	jan6	url fragments, or whatnot
2020-06-04 09:49:17	xq	<styan> I am reading the latest post, and it is basically trolling solderpunk with the concept of auto-executing shell scripts embedded in data URLs...
2020-06-04 09:49:25	xq	that's really up to the point where i was like: WHAT?!
2020-06-04 09:50:33	xq	but a thing that i thought about for clients:
2020-06-04 09:50:56	xq	what do you guys think of the idea of an opt-in option to inline-display images in a graphical client?
2020-06-04 09:51:20	xq	so, when a link to an image is encountered (guessed by the file extension), you can click a [+] button and the client will then inline-load te image
2020-06-04 09:56:01	@tomasino	i'm against it
2020-06-04 09:56:11	jan6	?url params could be used for that
2020-06-04 09:56:26	jan6	like image.png?type=inline
2020-06-04 09:56:42	@tomasino	if some clients start doing it people will start building content for it which will make other clients start doing it, and then we have inline images everywhere
2020-06-04 09:56:52	@tomasino	just let links be links
2020-06-04 09:58:07	@tomasino	xq: "you can click a [+] button and the client will then" - that wouldn't be inlining, really...
2020-06-04 09:58:09	@tomasino	i don't mind that
2020-06-04 09:58:12	@tomasino	as long as there's a click
2020-06-04 10:00:07	jan6	as long as whatever thing is completely optional, it's not too bad in my book
2020-06-04 10:03:11	styan	Maybe there should be a "roboclient" meta-user-agent in the robots.txt, so that a tiny server can indicate that clients should not auto-fetch large files?
2020-06-04 10:04:41	@julienxx	not a fan, would make a gemini page look like a web page
2020-06-04 10:08:46	xq	idea is that it's 100% optional and configurable
2020-06-04 10:09:57	xq	but having an image inlined is not bad for usability
2020-06-04 10:11:40	ironzorg	I think somebody on the ML suggested registering mime types along with the programs to handle them, which would make the question of handling images just one case among others
2020-06-04 10:11:56	ironzorg	that's how browsers handle… URIs…
2020-06-04 10:12:26	@tomasino	if you click the link before it does anything then i'm cool with it. if it displays images without a click that's no good and gets away from the document with links structure
2020-06-04 10:12:40	@tomasino	of text/gemini, that is. Feel free to serve markdown. :)
2020-06-04 10:12:50	xq	tomasino: yeah, exactly
2020-06-04 10:13:01	xq	i for myself would be okay with auto-serving inline images
2020-06-04 10:13:21	xq	but: we do software and we can make it configurable with the sane defaults
2020-06-04 10:13:26	xq	which would be "do nothing at all"
2020-06-04 10:13:37	xq	don't even provide an option for accidential clicks
2020-06-04 10:16:35	@tomasino	remember, inline images is the cheapest way to add tracking
2020-06-04 10:17:20	@tomasino	it's also a slippery slope
2020-06-04 10:17:32	jan6	you could serve all images as "inline"
2020-06-04 10:17:32	@tomasino	you'll get petite in there using it to side-load scripts in an hour
2020-06-04 10:17:34	xq	yes, that's why i want the default to be "don't even allow an accidential click"
2020-06-04 10:17:41	jan6	client fetches them and displays on click
2020-06-04 10:17:48	jan6	but not per spec
2020-06-04 10:18:03	xq	jan6: no, i wouldn't do that
2020-06-04 10:18:17	xq	it must be obvious what happenes
2020-06-04 10:18:20	jan6	I mean, is there anything that prohibits that? ;P
2020-06-04 10:18:31	styan	Also, if you allow external images and do not check that you already downloaded it, then your client could flood someone's server with requests from a maliciously crafted page!
2020-06-04 10:18:31	xq	no, except for personal standards :D
2020-06-04 10:18:43	xq	styan: true
2020-06-04 10:18:45	xq	good point!
2020-06-04 10:19:06	jan6	tbh not having inline images isn't bad at all
2020-06-04 10:19:09	jan6	it's just a different mindset
2020-06-04 10:19:16	xq	yeah, and i respect that! :)
2020-06-04 10:19:35	jan6	it's not a "everything at once", like html, but just "everything as needed"
2020-06-04 10:19:35	xq	hm
2020-06-04 10:19:55	xq	yeah, i think i'll go with the "inline the image on request" option
2020-06-04 10:20:07	jan6	also avoids the need to downscale images, which would take ages to load on the page
2020-06-04 10:20:11	xq	that's convenient, and the user stays in power of their requests
2020-06-04 10:20:17	@tomasino	you could display it in a pretty lightbox
2020-06-04 10:20:20	@tomasino	on click
2020-06-04 10:20:31	xq	what's a lightbox?
2020-06-04 10:20:41	@tomasino	a modal-type thingy that does an overlay of the content
2020-06-04 10:20:53	@tomasino	picture takes over with a way to dismiss it
2020-06-04 10:21:56	xq	hm
2020-06-04 10:22:04	xq	that's what Castor does for me atm
2020-06-04 10:22:29	xq	and i don't like it (opening the image file in another tool/window)
2020-06-04 10:22:44	@tomasino	ahh, a lightbox would be in the same tool, just overlaying your stuff
2020-06-04 10:22:52	xq	yeah, true
2020-06-04 10:22:52	@tomasino	but really, as a client author, do what you feel works best
2020-06-04 10:23:03	xq	sure thing ;)
2020-06-04 10:23:14	xq	but asking some other people what they think of your ideas is always a good thing
2020-06-04 10:23:24	xq	to prevent doing utterly stupid stuff in the first place
2020-06-04 10:23:44	@tomasino	all the world on fire shit in 2020 has me really riled up and i keep snapping at people. trying not to do that here and on the mailing list, but i'm not always good at it
2020-06-04 10:24:39	@tomasino	i'm really, really trying not to respond to petite cause i think it'd would be some shit suggesting they serve text/html over gemini and really just fuck up everything all at once and save us some time
2020-06-04 10:25:00	@tomasino	not helpful to anyone
2020-06-04 10:25:04	⚡	tomasino goes back to work
2020-06-04 10:27:28	jan6	heh
2020-06-04 10:27:41	jan6	why not text/html? ;P
2020-06-04 10:28:08	jan6	that's the point people seem to miss, that text/gemini doesn't need all the fancy extentions, they can simply use any other mimetype, and call it a day
2020-06-04 10:28:33	xq	yeah, exactly
2020-06-04 10:28:37	jan6	just make a text/geminline with all the inline stuff ;P
2020-06-04 10:28:47	xq	i think the current spec is (except for ambiguities) pretty perfect
2020-06-04 10:28:50	jan6	text/gemini+image
2020-06-04 10:29:05	jan6	someone should yell at mailing list with the info
2020-06-04 10:29:24	⚡	jan6 isn't good communicator
2020-06-04 10:30:23	@tomasino	jan6: huh?
2020-06-04 10:30:24	@tomasino	;)
2020-06-04 10:31:44	jan6	what huh?
2020-06-04 10:32:35	@tomasino	whoozits?
2020-06-04 10:35:20	jan6	watzitz?
2020-06-04 10:36:50	@tomasino	ahh, taika waititi
2020-06-04 11:06:08		bard has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-04 11:06:15	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 11:22:53	sysdharma	Hey folks - I just started reading the specification for Gemini (at https://gopher.commons.host/gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/0/docs/spec-spec.txt) and had trouble parsing this "Gemini clients MUST accept CRLF and bare LF as being representative of a line break in text media received via HTTP."
2020-06-04 11:22:53	sysdharma	Is that "via HTTP" an artifact?
2020-06-04 11:23:19	@tomasino	Yep
2020-06-04 11:23:36	@tomasino	Copied from another spec most likely
2020-06-04 11:24:01	sysdharma	tomasino: thanks!
2020-06-04 11:24:07	@tomasino	NP!
2020-06-04 11:42:09	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 12:01:57	xq	huh
2020-06-04 12:01:58	xq	:D
2020-06-04 12:39:31	sysdharma	tomasino: another question about the spec, on relative URL paths, is it relative to the current URL or the root at the current server? meaning a link to 'foo/bar' from gemini://server/a/b/c points to gemini://server/foo/bar or gemini://server/a/b/foo/bar ?
2020-06-04 12:47:03	ironzorg	sysdharma: I think this answers your question https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/001248.html
2020-06-04 12:49:34	xq	"foo/bar" is relative to the current fil
2020-06-04 12:49:41	xq	"/foo/bar" is absolute on the current server
2020-06-04 12:49:51	jan6	I'd assume normal convention of "/path/path" is relative to the server and "path/path" is relative to current dir
2020-06-04 12:49:54	xq	both URIs don't have a schema, one is relative, one is absolute
2020-06-04 12:50:33	xq	[scheme][//authority]{[/abspath]|[relpath]}
2020-06-04 12:50:36	xq	is roughly the syntax
2020-06-04 12:58:19	sysdharma	ok, thanks!
2020-06-04 13:35:29	⚡	rak mumbles something about per-sender rate limiting on the ML
2020-06-04 13:36:17	rak	14 of the 22 emails I've gotten since last night are from the same person
2020-06-04 13:37:30	kayw	PA has been sending a lot of emails
2020-06-04 13:37:32	kayw	like
2020-06-04 13:37:37	kayw	a little too many emails
2020-06-04 13:38:14	kayw	it's hard to keep up
2020-06-04 13:44:08	makeworld	It's annoying
2020-06-04 13:44:44	makeworld	It's like they're really tone deaf to the whole project and community
2020-06-04 13:45:01	makeworld	One day they'll find out about this IRC and that'll be the end
2020-06-04 13:45:02	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-04 13:46:30	jan6	lol
2020-06-04 13:46:37	jan6	how about you tell them yourself? ;P
2020-06-04 13:46:44	jan6	no more flooding the list ;P
2020-06-04 13:47:51	~tiwesdaeg	can we make this a no bees allowed space?
2020-06-04 13:48:53		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-04 13:48:54	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 13:49:06	makeworld	jan6: I've considered emailing them
2020-06-04 13:50:30	wgreenhouse	tiwesdaeg: bzz bzz
2020-06-04 13:51:16	dkibi	don't know if this is relevant for anyone, but I have gemserv running on nixos and reproduced parts of the config here: gemini://otrn.org:1965/updates/2020-06-04-gemserv.gmi
2020-06-04 13:51:34	rak	makeworld: Indeed, many of the proposals I've seen on the ML seem to go against the spirit of the project
2020-06-04 13:52:20	makeworld	As a general rule, if you want to extend it, you're doing it wrong
2020-06-04 13:52:33	rak	If you want to serve something feature equivalent to markdown or HTML, why not just serve markdown or HTML.
2020-06-04 13:52:55	makeworld	Yeah exactly
2020-06-04 13:54:10	~tiwesdaeg	I wouldn't mind seeing some of the graphical browsers render markdown
2020-06-04 13:54:40	makeworld	Yeah, me neither
2020-06-04 13:54:48	~tiwesdaeg	I'm quite happy with the simplicity of text/gemini
2020-06-04 13:55:19	~tiwesdaeg	html should just be offloaded to your default web browser
2020-06-04 13:57:29	jan6	I still like my idea of extending text/gemini to support formatting in a line-oriented way which is displayed inline, too bad it's not gonna be added and it'd look weird when clients don't support it
2020-06-04 13:58:31	ironzorg	it's also not usable in pure markup mode jan6
2020-06-04 13:58:45	wgreenhouse	I think that kind of formatting should be limited to things that people use as conventions on IRC and plaintext email, like *bold* and _underline_
2020-06-04 13:59:03	wgreenhouse	so your eye can parse it even if the client does not
2020-06-04 13:59:46	jan6	pure markup mode?
2020-06-04 13:59:47	dkibi	Should text/gemini lines and with crlf?
2020-06-04 13:59:56	rak	I don't this kind of thing doesn't need to be in the spec. A client could just arbitrarily adopt the convention of making *bold* look bold in a terminal if it wanted.
2020-06-04 14:00:09	jan6	*end, and good idea to end in crlf, yes
2020-06-04 14:00:26	rak	please no
2020-06-04 14:00:41	rak	I don't want to have to run all of my files through unix2dos or whatever the current utility name is.
2020-06-04 14:00:47	dkibi	does anyone know how to make git on not-windows allow this?
2020-06-04 14:01:01	jan6	I'd like specifically the line-oriented nature, you don't need to worry about what happens if you do *1*2**3**4
2020-06-04 14:01:13	jan6	rak: why would you need to?
2020-06-04 14:01:18	jan6	it prints fine on linux ;P
2020-06-04 14:02:01	rak	dkibi: Allow what? This might be useful: https://help.github.com/en/github/using-git/configuring-git-to-handle-line-endings
2020-06-04 14:02:03	~tiwesdaeg	I'm pretty sure only first response from the server needs to have CRLF
2020-06-04 14:02:23	jan6	unless you're gonna be editing it, crlf should display fine on linux
2020-06-04 14:02:55	dkibi	rak: ah thanks I found some discussions about this bot no short writeup
2020-06-04 14:03:09	jan6	printf "hello\r\nthere\n" works totally fine in my terminal
2020-06-04 14:03:15	rak	Right, that's my understanding. The first response line has to end with CRLF, but clients have to accept LF and CRLF as line endings in text/* media
2020-06-04 14:03:27	~tiwesdaeg	when I make CGI scripts in shell, I do 'printf "20 text/gemini\r\n"'
2020-06-04 14:03:40	~tiwesdaeg	any line after that can just be \n
2020-06-04 14:03:47	jan6	sure
2020-06-04 14:03:50	dkibi	unix2dos did not produce a diff so I assumed git would strip off the \r by default?
2020-06-04 14:03:50	~tiwesdaeg	I think that's all echo outputs
2020-06-04 14:04:14	rak	Maybe I misinterpreted dkibi's proposal. I thought dkibi was proposing requiring that every line in a text/gemini file end with \r\n.
2020-06-04 14:04:19	jan6	you set git options, git for windows just has a GUI to do that
2020-06-04 14:04:55	dkibi	nono it's not a proposal it's a "I want to adher to the standard for my own page"
2020-06-04 14:05:02	~tiwesdaeg	ahh
2020-06-04 14:05:14	dkibi	s/page/space/
2020-06-04 14:05:15	rak	Oooh, phew.
2020-06-04 14:05:18	~tiwesdaeg	dkibi: you jsut need it for the first line of the server output
2020-06-04 14:05:22	rak	Sorry, I misunderstood you :-)
2020-06-04 14:05:31	~tiwesdaeg	if you are just talking about .gmi/.gemini files
2020-06-04 14:05:39	~tiwesdaeg	then don't worry about it
2020-06-04 14:05:43	dkibi	it's alright I was not precise
2020-06-04 14:05:57	~tiwesdaeg	the server should handle that part
2020-06-04 14:06:54	dkibi	I'm asking because gemini-diagnostics complains
2020-06-04 14:07:54	~tiwesdaeg	I don't think any is writing .gmi files with each ine ending in CRLF
2020-06-04 14:08:02	~tiwesdaeg	s/ine/line
2020-06-04 14:08:33	jan6	@git, a quick grep suggests that you might want to look into merge.renormalize core.autocrlf core.safecrlf core.eol config options, and however exactly those are set
2020-06-04 14:08:44	jan6	*IF* you want to autoconvert
2020-06-04 14:09:39	jan6	is there any clarity if client should accept CRLF and LF in the same file at the same time, or only one should be used at a time?
2020-06-04 14:09:56	~tiwesdaeg	I don't think so
2020-06-04 14:10:19	jan6	like "hello \r\n there \n mr \r\n tiwesdaeg" should be read fine?
2020-06-04 14:10:38	~tiwesdaeg	test it out!
2020-06-04 14:10:51	dkibi	haah "site/index.gmi: Dyalog APL transfer"
2020-06-04 14:10:53	dkibi	says file
2020-06-04 14:10:54	~tiwesdaeg	but yeah, I think all the clients can handle both
2020-06-04 14:12:37	rak	Indeed, the spec requires them to. §3.3: "Gemini clients MUST accept CRLF and bare LF as being representative of a line break in text media"
2020-06-04 14:13:42	dkibi	ok nice
2020-06-04 14:13:57	dkibi	so the diagnostic is a bit to strict, but I guess that's alright
2020-06-04 14:14:20	rak	OTOH, the sentence above it says: "Gemini relaxes this requirement and allows the transport of text media with plain LF alone representing a line break when it is done consistently for an entire response body."
2020-06-04 14:16:05	jan6	which isn't too clear about what if it's inconsistent line endings, should it error? try to render anyway, converting them to be consistent?
2020-06-04 14:22:35	ironzorg	ugh the top posting
2020-06-04 14:47:46	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 15:23:51		sysdharma has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-04 15:32:18	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 15:42:46	ironzorg	the spec mentions clients can generate a ToC from header lines to "allow users to easily jump to specific sections without excessive scrolling", does anybody know if that implies the fragment part of a URL should be used to jump to a given line, as with HTTP browsers?
2020-06-04 15:48:38	ironzorg	that was probably asked about a million times :p
2020-06-04 15:57:26	lick	ooo
2020-06-04 16:07:46	ℹ 	lick is now known as lickthecheese
2020-06-04 16:08:26	ℹ 	lickthecheese is now known as lick
2020-06-04 16:13:09	dkibi	rak: thanks for taking this to the ML and collecting prior discussions
2020-06-04 16:15:33	@tomasino	i guess it's theoretically possible, iron, but there's no id's or anything that a fragment descriptor would target
2020-06-04 16:15:50	@tomasino	having a hash followed by a URL encoded string that matches your headline could work, but yuck
2020-06-04 16:16:09	@tomasino	i think it's meant for inner-document referencing on the client-side 
2020-06-04 16:19:41	rak	dkibi: Sure thing. Fixing the spec might make some existing servers non-compliant, but it won't break any clients. And in fact, it should simplify things for clients.
2020-06-04 16:20:32	ironzorg	tomasino: got it, thanks
2020-06-04 16:22:21	ℹ 	lick is now known as thisisatest
2020-06-04 16:22:34	rak	I have no clue what PA's reply to my email is supposed to mean, short of trolling...
2020-06-04 16:22:41	ℹ 	thisisatest is now known as lick
2020-06-04 16:25:02	@tomasino	trolling, yes
2020-06-04 16:41:15	xq	i'm pretty sure that the last proposals are just trolls
2020-06-04 16:48:31		dacav has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-04 16:48:38		underpower has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-04 16:52:34	dkibi	rak: would what you suggest also allow e.g. unicode normalization?
2020-06-04 16:56:03	lukee	@ironzorg: I've implemented the table of contents in GemiNaut, but I dont think the spec says anything about using a fragment as a persistent reference
2020-06-04 16:56:18	lukee	it would be a nice idea
2020-06-04 16:59:27	lukee	there would have to be a canonical way to reference these headings
2020-06-04 16:59:59	lukee	the google style guide suggests a kebab case link id
2020-06-04 16:59:59	lukee	https://developers.google.com/style/headings-targets
2020-06-04 17:00:13	lukee	so if you had a heading # My heading in Gemini
2020-06-04 17:00:30	lukee	the link target would be #my-heading-in-gemini
2020-06-04 17:01:21	lukee	clients can mostly sort this out, but there needs to be an agreed convention, since there is no way of for the author to explicitly define the id
2020-06-04 17:05:47	@tomasino	#3 (links to third heading)
2020-06-04 17:05:47	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-04 17:06:12	@tomasino	it's just as fragile
2020-06-04 17:06:19	@tomasino	someone tweaks the spelling and your link fails
2020-06-04 17:07:00	makeworld	tomasino: I like that numbered link
2020-06-04 17:07:12	makeworld	But yeah we should definitely have a standard way of doing it
2020-06-04 17:09:20	lukee	I think at least the version based on the text of the heading is somewhat robust to additional headings being defined
2020-06-04 17:09:55	lukee	personally I prefer that to URL encoding spaces into the fragment
2020-06-04 17:10:04	lukee	And it should be case insensitive IMO
2020-06-04 17:13:29	jan6	hmm
2020-06-04 17:15:45	makeworld	Yeah, I think going with an existing standard makes sense
2020-06-04 17:15:53	makeworld	Like basically just copy what markdown does
2020-06-04 17:46:29	lukee	Hey folks, I just commissioned a new server
2020-06-04 17:46:30	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/
2020-06-04 17:46:48	lukee	Everyone needs a playground
2020-06-04 17:47:11	makeworld	Abeille says "I foretell a schism" smh
2020-06-04 17:47:20	makeworld	Yeah who's leading the schism huh
2020-06-04 17:47:49	makeworld	lukee: Cool!
2020-06-04 17:53:42	lukee	my ISP does raspberrypi in the cloud
2020-06-04 18:07:12	~tiwesdaeg	so many www links!
2020-06-04 18:07:44	~tiwesdaeg	also, I would love to learn how to make lutes
2020-06-04 18:08:13	~tiwesdaeg	I've got an anglo-saxon lyre project partially complete
2020-06-04 18:08:51	~tiwesdaeg	and a made a ghetto version with a cigar box and a piece of old table
2020-06-04 18:22:31	rak	dkibi: No. All I'm proposing is simplifying the spec to 1) eliminate ambiguity, and 2) be consistent with every other text-transmitting protocol since at least the 80s, and 3) not violate the RFCs that define mime types.
2020-06-04 18:26:31	rak	There's also the part that, if at any point the community wishes to register the text/gemini mime type or otherwise standardize gemini, (3) will be a deal breaker to the best of my knowledge (it violates a MUST requirement for being classified under the "text" type, RFC2046§4.1)
2020-06-04 18:28:16	rak	So the community might as well put up with minor pain now while the community is small and flexible and things are still a bit fluid, rather than be stuck N years down the road when change will be painful.
2020-06-04 18:35:58		rodolphoeck has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-04 18:36:01	dkibi	right you comment about a well-defined representation was just to justify changing the line ending (from the on disk representation)
2020-06-04 18:36:35	dkibi	I can't find a definition of "canonecal form" in this rfc. is a file transmitted via a protocol supposed to be in canonical form (I know next to nothing about mime)
2020-06-04 18:38:45	dkibi	ah thats in part 1?
2020-06-04 18:39:29	dkibi	s/canonecal/canonical/
2020-06-04 18:41:31	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 18:41:42	dkibi	oh no :( I fear that I stole the geminaut spot on the list :(
2020-06-04 18:42:51		rodolphoeck has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-04 18:46:45	jan6	there was some discussion about the line endings
2020-06-04 18:47:07	jan6	html or something had already set the precedent of allowing different line endings
2020-06-04 18:47:13	jan6	or was it http, idk
2020-06-04 18:49:23	rak	I dug it up and will reply to the list later, I have other stuff to tend to now.
2020-06-04 18:50:31	rak	But in short: HTTP requires servers to sent everything in canonical form, including text. This means that text/* line endings must be CLRF. However, the protocol also says that applications must accept CRLF, bare CR, and bare LF as line endings for text/* sent over HTTP.
2020-06-04 18:50:57	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 18:51:40	jan6	which is pretty much the case here, except no living OS uses CR
2020-06-04 18:51:41	rak	I'll send an email later revising my proposal to essentially: the canonical form of text/gemini has crlf line endings, and servers must send data in canonical form, but clients must also accept crlf and bare lf (à la http)
2020-06-04 18:51:53	jan6	what's the point then
2020-06-04 18:52:15	jan6	also just let it be, several people argued they didn't want to transform user's content server-side
2020-06-04 18:53:03	jan6	you can just spread the word that crlf is the unofficially best preferred line ending for gemini ;P
2020-06-04 18:53:11	rak	Not violating existing RFCs on mime types, and being able to eventually standardize the protocol and mime/type. But perhaps this is just the academic in me talking.
2020-06-04 18:55:40	dkibi	the one thing I really don't understand in all of this: does the mime type rfc specify that content needs to be transmited in canonical form? can not one say that the canonical form is "crlf" line ending, but servers are free to transmit a denomalized form with lf line endings?
2020-06-04 18:59:17	jan6	^
2020-06-04 19:04:41	@tomasino	that line, rak, is copypasta from another RFC (hence the accidental HTTP still in it)
2020-06-04 19:05:08	@tomasino	originally soldepunk said CRLF only because he was looking at the same spec you are, but people found ones that superceded it that were newer showing exceptions
2020-06-04 19:13:07	jan6	^
2020-06-04 19:35:29	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 19:52:58	makeworld	I have a cache, renderer, and TOFU database working for my top-secret client - it's been a lot of fun to implement
2020-06-04 19:53:32	acdw	oooh
2020-06-04 19:53:52	acdw	I need to implement TOFU -- mind talking about how your database works?
2020-06-04 19:53:58	makeworld	Sure!
2020-06-04 19:56:32	makeworld	It's basically what Bombadillo does. I store the hash of the raw cert, as well as its expiry date. Then for every request, I pass the cert to a function that tries to load the TOFU entry from storage. If it doesn't exist, then the current cert is saved. If the fingerprints match, everything's good. If they don't match, but the expiry date has
2020-06-04 19:56:32	makeworld	passed, then the new cert is saved over top of the old one. Otherwise, something malicious has happened
2020-06-04 19:57:07	makeworld	https://pastebin.com/xMsdE5D0
2020-06-04 19:57:30	makeworld	acdw: That's the overview, and the text of my high level function that handles it
2020-06-04 19:57:48	makeworld	It really wasn't that bad to do
2020-06-04 19:57:56	acdw	Awesome!
2020-06-04 19:58:02	acdw	Thank you :)
2020-06-04 19:58:40	makeworld	You're welcome, let me know if you any other questions
2020-06-04 19:58:45	makeworld	*you have
2020-06-04 19:59:11	acdw	so a secret client eh?
2020-06-04 19:59:24	makeworld	For now...
2020-06-04 19:59:39	acdw	hahaha
2020-06-04 19:59:40	acdw	awesome
2020-06-04 19:59:42	makeworld	Once it work properly I'll announce it ofc
2020-06-04 19:59:44	makeworld	Ha thanks
2020-06-04 19:59:58	⚡	makeworld afk
2020-06-04 20:00:12	⚡	lick is nolonger afk
2020-06-04 20:01:13	jan6	nolon ger
2020-06-04 20:01:34	jan6	I should make a proper client sometime shouldn't I...
2020-06-04 20:04:58	lukee	tiwesdaeg: yes too many www links right now, I need to write more gemini content.
2020-06-04 20:05:27	~tiwesdaeg	and make more lutes
2020-06-04 20:05:39	lukee	lute making is like making other instruments, you just need to work precisely and follow a good plan. Well thats the basics
2020-06-04 20:05:51	lukee	getting a good sound, thats the black art!
2020-06-04 20:06:14	acdw	I don' teven know what lutes sound like tbh
2020-06-04 20:06:21	acdw	and I'm at work so I can't listen :(
2020-06-04 20:06:26	lukee	omg you havent lived :-)
2020-06-04 20:06:41	acdw	Tonight, my life will begin!
2020-06-04 20:06:53	~tiwesdaeg	how difficult is it to make the back?
2020-06-04 20:07:29	lukee	yeah thats one of the tricky bits - you need to make a solid mold and bend the ribs over it
2020-06-04 20:07:39	~tiwesdaeg	I was about to ask
2020-06-04 20:08:01	~tiwesdaeg	so you don't bend each individually, but bend put them all in the mold
2020-06-04 20:09:19	~tiwesdaeg	I'm guessing it's still easier than messing with arched topped guitars or violins
2020-06-04 20:09:19	lukee	@acdw here is a link to a full album of one of my customers - you can stream the whole album. he has others too https://veterummusica.bandcamp.com/album/elizabeths-lutes
2020-06-04 20:09:48	lukee	no you bend them one by one from the centre outwards. Each rib is fitted to its neighbour
2020-06-04 20:09:54	~tiwesdaeg	lukee: do you have a link with examples of some of your builds?
2020-06-04 20:10:13	acdw	lukee thank you! I'll add it to my long "work notes" email I send to myself
2020-06-04 20:10:24	lukee	https://www.orlando-lutes.com/pages/gallery
2020-06-04 20:11:02	~tiwesdaeg	I've really thought about getting in to luthiery as a hobby when I retire
2020-06-04 20:11:30	lukee	its great fun - quite absorbing
2020-06-04 20:12:28	~tiwesdaeg	did you learn from someone experienced or just do it the hard way and figure it out along the way?
2020-06-04 20:12:57	acdw	those are beautiful lutes!
2020-06-04 20:13:18	~tiwesdaeg	so many courses, so much tuning
2020-06-04 20:13:22	lukee	my first one I just made myself. Later I managed to go on a summer school run by David van Edwards who is a master builder in the UK
2020-06-04 20:13:54	lukee	he has an online course if you are interested. I can highly recommend it
2020-06-04 20:13:55	lukee	https://www.vanedwards.co.uk/renlute.htm
2020-06-04 20:15:10	lukee	the "simpler" lutes only have 6 courses. Each is played as a pair, so its no harder to play than the guitar really
2020-06-04 20:15:21	lukee	yes some later ones have many more courses (up to 14)
2020-06-04 20:15:36	lukee	most players come from the guitar
2020-06-04 20:16:59	lukee	there is also The Lute Society which is worth joining
2020-06-04 20:17:00	~tiwesdaeg	my mountain dulcimers have one course only
2020-06-04 20:17:00	lukee	https://www.lutesociety.org/
2020-06-04 20:17:23	~tiwesdaeg	plus a couple of single strings
2020-06-04 20:17:25	lukee	let me know if I'm going on too much about lutes, I know it is off topic!
2020-06-04 20:17:31	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-06-04 20:17:46	~tiwesdaeg	I can talk about stringed instruments all day
2020-06-04 20:18:13	~tiwesdaeg	I play guitar, bass, sorta banjo, mountain dulcimer, ukulele
2020-06-04 20:18:20	~tiwesdaeg	I did have a mandolin for a while
2020-06-04 20:18:23	lukee	instrument making is a whole world unto itself
2020-06-04 20:18:43	lukee	so now you are ready to take up the lute ;-)
2020-06-04 20:19:00	~tiwesdaeg	if I were only single, I would own so many more instruments ;P
2020-06-04 20:19:38	lukee	yup I know that feeling
2020-06-04 20:20:23	makeworld	acdw: What client is yours again?
2020-06-04 20:26:05	rak	dkibi: Yeah, I came to that realization while outside bagpiping. The MIME RFC simply specifies the canonical format, but the protocol can, in principle allow other stuff.
2020-06-04 20:26:30	acdw	makeworld: https://git.sr.ht/~acdw/bollux/
2020-06-04 20:26:36	acdw	I have my own secret project ;)
2020-06-04 20:26:41	rak	tomasino: Yeah, it looks like a copypasta out of RFC 1945 §3.6.1
2020-06-04 20:31:48	makeworld	Oh yeah, that was gonna be my first guess
2020-06-04 20:31:53	makeworld	Maybe second
2020-06-04 20:31:54	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-04 20:46:53	jan6	is this #gemini or #lutes lol ;P
2020-06-04 20:47:05	lukee	#gemini
2020-06-04 20:47:52	lukee	everyone has a secret skill - what is yours?
2020-06-04 20:53:23	makeworld	Does anyone have any gemini test files online?
2020-06-04 20:53:29	makeworld	With all gemini link types, etc
2020-06-04 20:54:54	acdw	you mean like different protocols?
2020-06-04 20:55:35	acdw	or like the different line types?
2020-06-04 20:56:45	acdw	I have all line types but '### ' at gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw/2020-06-04-ascii-art-vim.gmi
2020-06-04 21:00:01	lukee	acdw: I notice the text on that page has lots of escape codes in it - does that presuppose a certain client will do something with them?
2020-06-04 21:02:01	acdw	it's colors!
2020-06-04 21:02:23	acdw	yes, terminal clients might display them, I know castor converts some term escapes to colors
2020-06-04 21:02:40	acdw	I display them with less -R
2020-06-04 21:03:44	makeworld	My secret client does too. It's a terminal client but the library has a function that will convert ANSI codes into a general colour format, so they can work on Windows too
2020-06-04 21:03:55	acdw	aww yus
2020-06-04 21:04:08	acdw	oh shoot windows doesn't do ansi codes? -_-
2020-06-04 21:04:19	makeworld	Pretty sure it doesn't
2020-06-04 21:04:22	acdw	that's why bollux is weird on cmder
2020-06-04 21:04:30	acdw	it does *something* with them, but it's weirder
2020-06-04 21:04:45	rak	makeworld: there are the client stress tests linked to from gemini.circumlunar.space iirc.
2020-06-04 21:04:56	acdw	oh yeah, duh! thanks rak
2020-06-04 21:05:14	makeworld	Thanks!
2020-06-04 21:05:38	makeworld	Oh but that's just the torture test
2020-06-04 21:05:50	makeworld	I was hoping for a static document with many different link types
2020-06-04 21:05:55	lukee	these term escapes presuppose a terminal client then. As far as the content is concerned they just come down the stream as [47m, [34mfill etc
2020-06-04 21:05:57	makeworld	But I'll write it myself, it's trivial
2020-06-04 21:06:05	makeworld	lukee: yep
2020-06-04 21:06:27	makeworld	But since many people are using it, we have graphical client like Castor that support it anyway
2020-06-04 21:06:35	acdw	windows terminal looks like this https://imgur.com/a/3EnLaxD
2020-06-04 21:06:50	acdw	lukee: yep! lol
2020-06-04 21:07:03	acdw	I'm not going to use it *much*
2020-06-04 21:07:17	acdw	and will probably include an option at some point to turn it off
2020-06-04 21:07:52	lukee	is there a spec somewhere to know the shape of them. I guess we cant assume any particular client will know what to do with them
2020-06-04 21:08:40	lukee	I know they are pretty, but it seems to make specific assumptions about the client that doesnt seem generalisable
2020-06-04 21:11:36	lukee	Maybe the solution is to use the "alt text" option on preformatted regions to hint the text is ansi-enhanced
2020-06-04 21:12:02	acdw	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#CSI_sequences
2020-06-04 21:12:04	lukee	do we know if solderpunk will include that alt text proposal in the next iteration
2020-06-04 21:12:31	acdw	You're making a good point, lukee.
2020-06-04 21:12:40	acdw	I really hope solderpunk puts the alt text thing in there
2020-06-04 21:12:56	lukee	I think it will be good too
2020-06-04 21:13:23	acdw	I would be in favor of something in the spec that clients should at least filter out terminal escapes
2020-06-04 21:13:47	acdw	and maybe that like nothing but formatting ones (\033[ ... m) should be allowed
2020-06-04 21:13:59	acdw	or that clients only have to know those ones, or something
2020-06-04 21:14:27	acdw	but at the same time that's going to complicate the spec and be really prescriptive on content,
2020-06-04 21:14:35	acdw	maybe it'd work as part of text/gemini
2020-06-04 21:14:46	makeworld	It would ruin the line by line thing though
2020-06-04 21:15:01	makeworld	I think we should just leave it alone
2020-06-04 21:15:12	makeworld	Some client  and authors may use it, some may not
2020-06-04 21:15:21	makeworld	But  I think it's outside the spec
2020-06-04 21:15:44	lukee	my own view is they shouldnt be assumed to be interpreted by clients by authors, but can be added to the alt text so those that know what to do with it (and want to) will know when they should do so
2020-06-04 21:16:34	lukee	I think the alt text will be good - it could be used to hint certain programming languages and then they can be syntax highlighted
2020-06-04 21:16:51	acdw	oh i didn't think about the line-by-line
2020-06-04 21:16:53	lukee	if it makes it into the spec!
2020-06-04 21:20:55	lukee	this is what you get in non-terminal clients https://imgur.com/a/U8UdeDV
2020-06-04 21:20:55	acdw	fingers crossed!
2020-06-04 21:21:09	acdw	oh ahahahh! that's great
2020-06-04 21:21:32	acdw	that's a good looking client tho
2020-06-04 21:21:43	acdw	i like the border around the preformatted block
2020-06-04 21:22:19	makeworld	Yeah it sure is
2020-06-04 21:22:25	makeworld	I'm jealous of Geminaut
2020-06-04 21:22:28	makeworld	Wish it ran on Linux
2020-06-04 21:22:35	acdw	yes! it looks SO GOOD
2020-06-04 21:22:41	xq	makeworld: i'm hacking together a graphical client based on Qt
2020-06-04 21:22:43	acdw	and work won't let me run it :(
2020-06-04 21:22:53	acdw	I've been trying to get my wife to install it but she's like "ok babe"
2020-06-04 21:22:57	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-04 21:23:00	acdw	xq sounds great!
2020-06-04 21:23:02	makeworld	xq: Good luck!
2020-06-04 21:23:11	makeworld	Make it look as good as geminaut plz
2020-06-04 21:23:19	xq	if you want, you can try
2020-06-04 21:23:25	xq	makeworld: i want to support a lot of styling
2020-06-04 21:23:46	xq	two spoilers:
2020-06-04 21:23:47	xq	https://mq32.de/public/e301169efe4e06c420d5c4ace2523e8d1b029073.png
2020-06-04 21:23:58	lukee	personally I tend to use the Fabric theme which is even more visual https://imgur.com/a/tAKxWUg
2020-06-04 21:24:04	makeworld	Personally I just want it to have good defaults
2020-06-04 21:24:07	makeworld	Ooh nice
2020-06-04 21:24:15	acdw	oh that's great! Love all the panels
2020-06-04 21:24:35	makeworld	Tbh the panels turn me off a bit
2020-06-04 21:24:49	makeworld	Because they take up so much real estate even when they're not doing much
2020-06-04 21:24:50	kayw	I kinda want to write my own client, but idk where to start lmao
2020-06-04 21:24:56	xq	https://mq32.de/public/9a9e8fb02352e4acee2b16c32829130baa1fdefc.png
2020-06-04 21:24:58	xq	what panels? :D
2020-06-04 21:25:14	makeworld	Ahaha you got me
2020-06-04 21:25:16	xq	kayw: read the spec, start hacking
2020-06-04 21:25:20	makeworld	It's weird to see my site there
2020-06-04 21:25:22	lukee	nice!
2020-06-04 21:25:43	kayw	speaking of sites, I should probably announce mine on the ML
2020-06-04 21:25:59	xq	you can also collapse the panes
2020-06-04 21:26:00	xq	https://mq32.de/public/e19a03d1eab03e01a7f3270d990d90b12702213a.png
2020-06-04 21:26:10	acdw	love. it!
2020-06-04 21:26:32	acdw	kayw: at least for me the first part is getting an openssl connection.
2020-06-04 21:26:47	makeworld	xq: I'd be nice if there was some margin, so that the text doesn't start right at the edge
2020-06-04 21:26:55	acdw	most languages have an SSL library, for bash I used 'openssl s_client'
2020-06-04 21:26:55	xq	yeah
2020-06-04 21:27:14	xq	i just ported it from QWebView to a plain richtext document
2020-06-04 21:27:21	xq	way better and faster than dragging a whole browser in
2020-06-04 21:27:22	kayw	i was gonna do python, but i'll probably try something else
2020-06-04 21:27:23	xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall
2020-06-04 21:27:29	xq	for those who want to check it out
2020-06-04 21:27:42	acdw	:D
2020-06-04 21:27:43	xq	no official announcement yet, as it's heavily work-in-progress
2020-06-04 21:27:44	xq	but!
2020-06-04 21:27:56	⚡	xq proudly survices the torture suite to 95%
2020-06-04 21:28:00	xq	except for the encoding stuff
2020-06-04 21:28:05	lukee	do you have any binaries? my cpp compiling skills are limited!
2020-06-04 21:28:24	xq	lukee: it should require only Qt5 with build system installed
2020-06-04 21:28:26	xq	then you can do
2020-06-04 21:28:42	xq	mkdir build; cd build; qmake ../kristall.pro && make
2020-06-04 21:28:45	xq	and get a binary
2020-06-04 21:28:55	xq	shipping qt is sadly a bit of work
2020-06-04 21:29:07	xq	but i could try uploading my binary if you want to try
2020-06-04 21:29:22	lukee	I would if its not too much effort
2020-06-04 21:29:47	xq	https://mq32.de/public/kristall.x86_64
2020-06-04 21:31:06	lukee	erm I just realised you are probably on linux, I'm on windows!
2020-06-04 21:31:23	lukee	for my sins
2020-06-04 21:31:50	xq	oh well
2020-06-04 21:31:51	xq	sorr y:D
2020-06-04 21:31:55	xq	no windows builds atm
2020-06-04 21:32:00	xq	have to set up a build VM first
2020-06-04 21:32:03	lukee	fair enough.
2020-06-04 21:32:10	xq	but i want to make it build with CI on github
2020-06-04 21:32:20	xq	just need some time
2020-06-04 21:32:40	xq	luckily i have so much hours on my time account, i only need to work 2 days next week :D
2020-06-04 21:32:47	xq	time to make some *really nice* Gemini client
2020-06-04 21:36:57	xq	makeworld: your server doesn't seem to close the connection?
2020-06-04 21:37:23	acdw	v nice xq!
2020-06-04 21:37:28	makeworld	xq: That's weird? I'm just using Jetforce
2020-06-04 21:37:50	xq	oh
2020-06-04 21:37:59	xq	i noticed some servers not closing their connection correctly
2020-06-04 21:38:13	xq	(means that my client just does not return from a read request)
2020-06-04 21:38:24	xq	thanks acdw :)
2020-06-04 21:38:45	makeworld	xq: Is that happening reliably?
2020-06-04 21:38:48	xq	my plan is to make the nicest cross-platform GUI client for Gemini
2020-06-04 21:38:52	xq	makeworld: it seems so, yes
2020-06-04 21:38:53	makeworld	Can you test with tilde.black too?
2020-06-04 21:38:58	xq	sure thing
2020-06-04 21:39:03	makeworld	They're also runnning jetforce I think
2020-06-04 21:39:12	makeworld	Also try mozz.us
2020-06-04 21:39:15	xq	ack, doesn't work there too
2020-06-04 21:39:24	xq	redirection works
2020-06-04 21:39:31	xq	but that's because i close the connection
2020-06-04 21:39:36	makeworld	Wdym doesn't work. It closes or no?
2020-06-04 21:39:41	xq	it doesn't close
2020-06-04 21:39:51	makeworld	Hmm yikes
2020-06-04 21:39:57	xq	i can make my socket time out, but that seems like a hack
2020-06-04 21:40:34	makeworld	I'm gonna file an issue can you chime in?
2020-06-04 21:40:34	xq	huh
2020-06-04 21:40:43	xq	seems like i receive garbage?
2020-06-04 21:40:47	xq	let me investigate further
2020-06-04 21:41:12	makeworld	Should I not file the issue yet?
2020-06-04 21:41:41	makeworld	xq
2020-06-04 21:41:48	@tomasino	hey what's up?
2020-06-04 21:41:50	@tomasino	tilde black? 
2020-06-04 21:41:54	@tomasino	yes, i'm running the latest jetforce
2020-06-04 21:42:20	acdw	tomasino are you also using tls 1.2?
2020-06-04 21:42:26	xq	wait a second
2020-06-04 21:42:28	@tomasino	i have no idea how to answer that question
2020-06-04 21:42:30	makeworld	It's just whatever Jetforce supports
2020-06-04 21:42:36	acdw	Oh okay lol
2020-06-04 21:42:38	makeworld	He and I don't decide what TLS version
2020-06-04 21:42:46	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-04 21:42:51	acdw	oh I do not understand TLS, lol
2020-06-04 21:43:25	@tomasino	me either
2020-06-04 21:43:26	acdw	I'm asking b/c bollux is first not getting a response, then getting one -- I'm assuming it's b/c I try tls 1.3 first, then 1.2
2020-06-04 21:43:32	makeworld	Afaik, there's a minimum accepted version, and then beyond that the client and server negotiate a version and encryption scheme
2020-06-04 21:43:40	@tomasino	oh bollux is installed on tilde.black
2020-06-04 21:43:44	acdw	:D
2020-06-04 21:43:52	makeworld	So you shouldn't be trying multiple versions
2020-06-04 21:43:57	@tomasino	no. i lied
2020-06-04 21:44:01	@tomasino	it's installed on cosmic.voyage
2020-06-04 21:44:02	acdw	D:
2020-06-04 21:44:04	acdw	:D
2020-06-04 21:44:05	@tomasino	it doesn't run on bsd yet
2020-06-04 21:44:08	acdw	right!
2020-06-04 21:44:10	makeworld	You should just try once with a minimum version and your ssl client will handle the rest acdw
2020-06-04 21:44:14	acdw	I have to get in touch with you at that
2020-06-04 21:44:20	acdw	oh for real?
2020-06-04 21:44:23	@tomasino	just need a pubkey & an email
2020-06-04 21:44:33	makeworld	acdw: Afaik yep
2020-06-04 21:44:37	acdw	gotta generate one @ home tomasino, will tonight if I remember
2020-06-04 21:44:43	@tomasino	:D woo
2020-06-04 21:44:44	acdw	makeworld: welp.
2020-06-04 21:44:51	acdw	hmmm
2020-06-04 21:45:18	acdw	Thanks for that info -- I'll need to read the man page for openssl s_client
2020-06-04 21:46:13	acdw	do any of yall have a link to like, the TLS spec? Or a primer on SSL in general?
2020-06-04 21:46:20	acdw	that would be good to read too
2020-06-04 21:47:09	makeworld	:By default s_client will negotiate the highest mutually supported protocol version."
2020-06-04 21:47:40	acdw	oh nice!
2020-06-04 21:47:51	acdw	well the patch request I got was unnecessary lol
2020-06-04 21:47:55	makeworld	acdw: I think you can just provide multiple tls flags at once: -tls1_2 -tls1_3
2020-06-04 21:48:10	makeworld	The key thing is that you shouldn't support TLS versions below 1.2
2020-06-04 21:48:54	acdw	omg awesome! thanks makeworld
2020-06-04 21:50:19	xq	huh
2020-06-04 21:50:27	xq	using s_client mozz.us works
2020-06-04 21:50:32	xq	but not using QSslSocket or using gurl
2020-06-04 21:50:38	acdw	makeworld: When a specific TLS version is required, only that version will be offered or accepted. Only one specific protocol can be given and it cannot be combined with any of the no_ options.
2020-06-04 21:50:48	xq	seems like the ssl session is terminated, but not the sock itself
2020-06-04 21:50:57	makeworld	So not the server's fault
2020-06-04 21:51:16	acdw	So I think if I specify "-no_tls1 -no_tls1_1" I'll be good
2020-06-04 21:51:24	acdw	xq that is weird
2020-06-04 21:51:41	makeworld	acdw: I don't have that second line in my man page
2020-06-04 21:51:46	makeworld	Where is it?
2020-06-04 21:51:55	makeworld	Also make sure to do -no_ssl too or whatever
2020-06-04 21:51:56	acdw	https://www.openssl.org/docs/manmaster/man1/openssl.html, under TLS Version options
2020-06-04 21:52:02	acdw	Yes! Okay awesome
2020-06-04 21:52:18	acdw	The manpage doesn't have IDs for the headers :(
2020-06-04 21:52:41	acdw	oh it's in man openssl, btw. not openssl-s_client
2020-06-04 21:52:45	makeworld	https://www.openssl.org/docs/manmaster/man1/openssl-s_client.html
2020-06-04 21:52:49	makeworld	Yep I was just about to say
2020-06-04 21:53:01	acdw	b/c many commands use the -tls options
2020-06-04 21:53:48	makeworld	Oh yeah I see that now
2020-06-04 21:54:11	makeworld	Probably just do: -no_ssl3, -no_tls1, -no_tls1_ then
2020-06-04 21:54:18	acdw	:) yes!
2020-06-04 21:54:25	makeworld	👍
2020-06-04 21:54:31	acdw	thanks again
2020-06-04 21:56:36	makeworld	Happy to help!
2020-06-04 21:56:42	xq	ah yes
2020-06-04 21:56:44	xq	> QAbstractSocket::RemoteHostClosedError "The TLS/SSL connection has been closed"
2020-06-04 21:56:44	makeworld	This IRC channel has been great
2020-06-04 21:56:53	xq	it looks like i found the culprit and i can react to that as well
2020-06-04 21:57:43	acdw	nice!
2020-06-04 21:57:50	acdw	squashing those bugs :0
2020-06-04 21:57:51	acdw	:)
2020-06-04 21:59:17	xq	yiss
2020-06-04 21:59:18	xq	nice, works
2020-06-04 22:02:34	xq	and now: gn8!
2020-06-04 22:05:35		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-04 22:05:58	acdw	nice!
2020-06-04 22:35:52		wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-04 22:37:00	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-06-04 22:42:25		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-05 01:56:01	@tomasino	okay, cosmic.voyage and tilde.black have favicons now
2020-06-05 01:56:31	@tomasino	i tried to use an alt of a detective that looks like a spy, but i dunno how to make the alts work. So instead i used a hole.
2020-06-05 01:56:39	@tomasino	cosmic got a rocket
2020-06-05 02:36:31	makeworld	tomasino: What do you mean alt?
2020-06-05 03:23:09	▬▬▶	numilani has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 03:48:29	lick	wait gemini can have favicons?
2020-06-05 03:48:49	ironzorg	=> //favicon.ico
2020-06-05 04:32:21	ironzorg	hey, stupid question: why enforce a \r at the end of link lines?
2020-06-05 04:55:24	ℹ 	gbmor is now known as dosens
2020-06-05 04:57:02	ℹ 	dosens is now known as gbless
2020-06-05 04:58:14	ℹ 	gbless is now known as june
2020-06-05 04:59:44	ℹ 	june is now known as gbm0r
2020-06-05 05:00:00	ℹ 	gbm0r is now known as gbmor
2020-06-05 06:28:44		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-05 06:41:45		numilani has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-05 06:41:50	▬▬▶	numilani has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 07:08:47	ironzorg	a small extension I implemented for fun in my editor's Gemini renderer, thoughts? https://files.catbox.moe/tp3zwo.png
2020-06-05 07:11:39	ironzorg	I think these rules would be more logical if all special lines in Gemini started with a space, and lines that don't would always be rendered verbatim - but it extends teh current spec (as an opt-in client rendering functionality) well
2020-06-05 07:11:58	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 07:11:59	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-05 07:15:04	ironzorg	my other rule in the above is that combined decoration operators have to be in the same order on both sides, example _*/`combined_*/` this makes parsing easier
2020-06-05 08:14:04	xq	does anyone knows spontaneuos a server that serves an png/jped via gemini?
2020-06-05 08:17:01	@julienxx	I have a picture on gemini://typed-hole.org
2020-06-05 08:17:42	xq	thanks, looking it up
2020-06-05 08:18:09	@julienxx	It's down for a minute
2020-06-05 08:18:24	@julienxx	ok back up
2020-06-05 08:19:06	⚡	xq definitly needs to implement back/forward
2020-06-05 08:19:18	@julienxx	first link in random stuff for the picture
2020-06-05 08:27:09	xq	thanks!
2020-06-05 08:27:11	xq	works :)
2020-06-05 08:27:17	xq	Kristall can now display pictures
2020-06-05 09:03:51		rodolphoeck has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-05 10:07:03		julienxx has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-05 10:08:02	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 10:08:02	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-05 10:13:51		julienxx has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-05 10:15:51	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 10:15:51	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-05 11:42:18	epoch	I'm thinking of how I can use some xargs-line program I have to be used as the forwards/backwards list navigator
2020-06-05 11:42:27	epoch	xargs-like*
2020-06-05 12:42:27	▬▬▶	dacav has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 13:14:18	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 13:30:48		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-05 13:47:33	makeworld	lick: Favicons go against the "one request per page" idea, but anyone could add them or implement them yeah
2020-06-05 13:48:28	makeworld	ironzorg: It's interesting, but I like that the text/gemini spec only requires you to look at the first bit of each line. This makes parsing much harder
2020-06-05 13:52:25	~tiwesdaeg	UTF-8 characters as favicons!
2020-06-05 13:53:41	~tiwesdaeg	tilde.pink claims 🕶
2020-06-05 14:00:56	lick	lol
2020-06-05 14:01:11	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 14:01:12	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-05 14:03:36	ironzorg	makeworld: I'd argue that it's no more complicated than link lines, whose parsing requires more than looking at the first = sign
2020-06-05 14:04:19	makeworld	It's definitely more complicated than that, since you just have to look at the space that breaks the link and link text
2020-06-05 14:04:26	ironzorg	but that's fair enough, especially if you want to handle escaping
2020-06-05 14:05:33	⚡	tiwesdaeg waves at julienxx
2020-06-05 14:06:33	@julienxx	hey tiwesdaeg!
2020-06-05 14:06:47	~tiwesdaeg	another exciting gemini day!
2020-06-05 14:07:14	~tiwesdaeg	I'm going to spend most of it laboring in the harsh Mississippi sun, working on the yard
2020-06-05 14:12:23	@julienxx	lucky you!
2020-06-05 15:36:08	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 15:36:27	lukee	hey folks
2020-06-05 15:36:40	lukee	I just wrote my first CGI script for Gemini
2020-06-05 15:36:47	lukee	and a short blog post
2020-06-05 15:36:50	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/5-Jun-2020 - first CGI.gmi
2020-06-05 15:43:20	lukee	actually I moved it here (to avoid spaces in URL)
2020-06-05 15:43:21	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/5-Jun-2020_first_CGI.gmi
2020-06-05 15:56:47	~tiwesdaeg	hey lukee
2020-06-05 15:56:52	~tiwesdaeg	never heard of rebol
2020-06-05 15:57:50	ironzorg	everybody on the ML should be writing their emails in text/gemini to see what's lacking better :p
2020-06-05 15:58:19	~tiwesdaeg	who's writing the client that can render it?
2020-06-05 15:59:03	ironzorg	render what, it's a markup language, it should be legible without any post-processing
2020-06-05 15:59:35	~tiwesdaeg	of course, but one might want to click the links
2020-06-05 16:00:28	ironzorg	that's the terminal's job, or the MUA's
2020-06-05 16:04:04	lukee	Rebol is a nice language, but not widely used. Simple syntax, homoiconic like LISP
2020-06-05 16:04:43	lukee	Its a server application, so you dont really need to care - the CGI just spits out dynamic GMI for whatever client you want to use
2020-06-05 16:05:26	⚡	tiwesdaeg uses shell script and python
2020-06-05 16:05:42	~tiwesdaeg	depends one my needs I guess
2020-06-05 16:07:06	lukee	Writing emails in text/gemini is just becoming a habit
2020-06-05 16:07:25	lukee	It is not far off from how I used to write emails anyway
2020-06-05 16:14:44	lukee	Also there are the gemini mailing list archives in geminispace
2020-06-05 16:15:00	lukee	so maybe they will be read by a gemini client some day
2020-06-05 17:02:10		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-05 17:33:18		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-05 17:37:50	makeworld	Are there any tabbed browsers for Gemini yet?
2020-06-05 17:37:57	makeworld	Or will my client be the first ;)
2020-06-05 17:38:13	@tomasino	i think the windows one has tabs, doesn't it?
2020-06-05 17:38:20	makeworld	Geminaut?
2020-06-05 17:38:59	@tomasino	i forget the name. I dismissed it since i don't windows
2020-06-05 17:39:08	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-05 17:39:14	makeworld	From the screenshots I don't think so
2020-06-05 17:39:17	@tomasino	maybe that was on the to-do list or maybe it already has those. i forget
2020-06-05 17:39:28	@tomasino	castor doesn't i don't think
2020-06-05 17:39:32	makeworld	https://www.marmaladefoo.com/pages/geminaut
2020-06-05 17:39:34	@tomasino	castor needs a forward button
2020-06-05 17:39:39	makeworld	No Castor doesn't
2020-06-05 17:39:41	makeworld	And yeah
2020-06-05 17:39:59	@tomasino	and better font wrapping
2020-06-05 17:40:10	@tomasino	and.... no, that's it
2020-06-05 17:40:19	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-05 17:55:36	makeworld	https://sr.ht/~nhanb/mcross/
2020-06-05 17:55:49	makeworld	McRossi s often forgot about but seems to be a nice graphical client
2020-06-05 17:55:58	makeworld	*McRoss is
2020-06-05 17:56:03	makeworld	There's a forward button!
2020-06-05 17:58:11	▬▬▶	webchatter has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 18:11:24	▬▬▶	webchatter6 has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 18:11:52	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 18:13:03		webchatter6 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-05 18:18:38	dkibi	oh that looks nice
2020-06-05 18:19:02	dkibi	ok hacked up feedgen does what I want
2020-06-05 18:19:09	dkibi	next step: trying out cgi ^^
2020-06-05 18:31:46		webchatter has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-05 18:33:51	makeworld	dkibi: What'd you do to feedgen?
2020-06-05 18:58:59	@julienxx	I’m against forward button and tabs :D sorry I like to read slowly and carefully
2020-06-05 19:00:03	@julienxx	McRoss looks nice but the README does not make me want to try it, go figure...
2020-06-05 19:00:46	@julienxx	(but he’s right)
2020-06-05 19:12:47	makeworld	How are you against forward buttons and tabs?
2020-06-05 19:12:51	makeworld	I don't get it, sorry
2020-06-05 19:13:13	makeworld	I see what you meant about reading carefully, but I don't think they're mutually exclusive
2020-06-05 19:19:36	@julienxx	They’re but I just wouldn’t use tabs or forward button I guess :) Forward I could, but honestly never had a moment where I told myself using my tool that I missed it
2020-06-05 19:20:06	@julienxx	(They’re NOT indeed, sorry)
2020-06-05 19:31:08	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 19:31:57	kensanata	It's weird to see more people here than I remember seeing on #gopher.
2020-06-05 19:33:18	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 19:50:15	@tomasino	hey
2020-06-05 19:50:22	@tomasino	welcome kensanata 
2020-06-05 19:51:08	@tomasino	i sometimes when i'm reading something that references something else i toggle back & forth with back/forward
2020-06-05 19:51:19	@tomasino	right now i can back easily, but forward i have to hunt the link down again
2020-06-05 19:51:27	@tomasino	minor thing, but that's why i was saying it
2020-06-05 19:59:56	kensanata	How does AV-98 know that gus.guru link 2 is a query and knows to ask for input?
2020-06-05 20:00:48	makeworld	kensanata: Because the server returns status code 10
2020-06-05 20:01:03	makeworld	See the spec for more info: https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/spec-spec.txt Also I can tell you :)
2020-06-05 20:01:22	kensanata	Ah, status 1!
2020-06-05 20:01:25	makeworld	The server returns code 10 and prompt text
2020-06-05 20:01:26	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-05 20:01:43	kensanata	I was staring at the URL and wondering: magic!
2020-06-05 20:01:54	makeworld	Lol it is pretty magical
2020-06-05 20:15:10	⚡	jan6 feels like what tomasin said, back and forth P;
2020-06-05 20:36:17	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-05 20:37:01	@tomasino	oh, hey, you had a "are you THAT Alex?" moment on the ML. you're internet famous!
2020-06-05 20:37:10	@tomasino	love it
2020-06-05 20:59:59	kensanata	haha
2020-06-05 21:00:12	kensanata	I had to reread it, too.
2020-06-05 21:01:25	wgreenhouse	kensanata: oh hey :)
2020-06-05 21:02:17	kensanata	Yo!
2020-06-05 21:03:11	xj9	*thinking about building content-addressed file storage on gemini*
2020-06-05 21:09:41	@tomasino	I just write stuff
2020-06-05 21:09:49	@tomasino	No cool projects
2020-06-05 21:10:05	xj9	writing is cool though
2020-06-05 21:19:26	kensanata	It is.
2020-06-05 21:19:45	kensanata	I, on the other hand, have stopped writing... Makes me sad!
2020-06-05 21:19:58	xj9	same though
2020-06-05 21:20:06	kensanata	All those colony ships in space, lost...
2020-06-05 21:20:34	kensanata	At least searching works on my wiki via Gemini, now.
2020-06-05 21:28:35	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 21:29:49	makeworld	xj9: How would that work, wouldn't that be a different protocol?
2020-06-05 21:30:14	makeworld	Like IPFS is a great content-addressed system, but it isn't related to HTTP at all
2020-06-05 21:30:23	makeworld	It is an alternative to it in some ways
2020-06-05 21:32:32	xj9	gemini://example.org/bfs/<sha256>
2020-06-05 21:33:15	xj9	its more like a repo format that a protocol, but its quite a bit simpler than http
2020-06-05 21:33:32	xj9	gemini is quite a bit simpler than http
2020-06-05 21:34:42	xj9	maybe like /bfs/<sha256.firstbits>/<sha256.rest> so the fs doesn't cry so much
2020-06-05 21:34:58	@tomasino	got a RPG tonight
2020-06-05 21:35:01	@tomasino	can't wait!
2020-06-05 21:35:03	xj9	fun
2020-06-05 21:36:05	jan6	at least you write, and at least you have rpgs
2020-06-05 21:38:09	kensanata	Thanks
2020-06-05 21:38:18	kensanata	RPGs are the best!
2020-06-05 21:38:23	@tomasino	agreed
2020-06-05 21:38:31	@tomasino	tonight is my game, Fate Core
2020-06-05 21:38:40		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-05 21:39:16	kensanata	Do you like the Fate points? That's what drove me away, in the end.
2020-06-05 21:39:24	@julienxx	Do you play with friends at a table?
2020-06-05 21:40:18	@tomasino	fate points, yeah, they're great. It's how you measure the mechanic of claiming compulsions or negative aspect effects to store up awesome
2020-06-05 21:40:38	@tomasino	and then some people creating aspects and others are invoking and the teamwork is awesome
2020-06-05 21:40:49	@tomasino	i play on roll20 atm
2020-06-05 21:41:12	@tomasino	in fact, the game starts tonight for me at 1am
2020-06-05 21:41:13	@julienxx	I played a lot of Shadowrun and Vampire the masquerade but it’s been quite a while
2020-06-05 21:41:31	@tomasino	i love fate because i worry about the mechanics AFTER the role play
2020-06-05 21:41:50	@tomasino	people describe what they're doing and then I ask for a check or not depending on whether it would be interesting if they fail
2020-06-05 21:42:38		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-05 21:42:38	@julienxx	Looks cool! I should try someday
2020-06-05 21:43:51	kensanata	I ran it a few times and even wrote a super short ruleset which we used about two or three times.
2020-06-05 21:43:55	kensanata	(In German)
2020-06-05 21:44:59	@tomasino	i played fate, fate accellerated, dresden, and now fate core. I love where they've landed with Core
2020-06-05 21:45:20	@tomasino	i also play in a pathfinder game, a starwars d20, and a super hero one ... i forget teh system name
2020-06-05 21:58:06	xq	what is "dresden" except for a german city?! :D
2020-06-05 21:58:28	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-06-05 21:58:40	⚡	xq waves companion_cube
2020-06-05 21:58:44	companion_cube	o/
2020-06-05 21:59:10	xq	the big question: are you weighted? :D
2020-06-05 21:59:20	kensanata	Time for bed over here. Good night y'alls! Stay safe.
2020-06-05 21:59:26	xq	gn8!
2020-06-05 21:59:38		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-05 21:59:50	@tomasino	dresden files is a urban fantasy series and they made a setting for it in fate
2020-06-05 21:59:52	xq	that quit reason :D
2020-06-05 22:00:02	companion_cube	xq: [♥]
2020-06-05 22:00:04	companion_cube	of course I am
2020-06-05 22:00:23	xq	crazy
2020-06-05 22:00:36	xq	really have to continue working on Kristall tomorrow :)
2020-06-05 22:01:12	companion_cube	is the protocol still heavily in flux?
2020-06-05 22:02:03	xq	the spec was frozen for 3 months and got unfrozen some days ago
2020-06-05 22:02:20	xq	mailing list is exploding with usefu and less useful proposals, will be frozen again in some weeks
2020-06-05 22:02:29	companion_cube	😂
2020-06-05 22:02:30	xq	so i don't expect muc flux in protocol layer anymore
2020-06-05 22:02:39	xq	companion_cube: you know the proposal story from zig :D
2020-06-05 22:02:46	companion_cube	oh well :D
2020-06-05 22:03:34	xq	good thing i learnt respecting community ideas in zig already :D
2020-06-05 22:03:48	xq	and only explore smaller ideas and not like "yeah we have to change everything"
2020-06-05 22:09:15	companion_cube	rust manages pretty well with its RFCs, too
2020-06-05 22:09:21	companion_cube	it's quite labor intensive, of course
2020-06-05 22:10:09	xq	yeah true
2020-06-05 22:12:40	xq	for gemini right now it'S pretty much only wild discussions on the ML
2020-06-05 22:12:41	companion_cube	I wonder why things are so lenient in the specs, though
2020-06-05 22:12:46	companion_cube	like the variable spaces
2020-06-05 22:12:53	xq	so feels like zig issues here and there
2020-06-05 22:13:03	companion_cube	what, no forge accessible only via gemini:// ? :p
2020-06-05 22:14:31	xq	companion_cube: what do you mean by lenient?
2020-06-05 22:14:52	companion_cube	well, the spec can be stricter, mandating exactly one space, for example
2020-06-05 22:15:01	xq	ah, that's afaik already changed :
2020-06-05 22:20:26	dkibi	oh hi companion_cube
2020-06-05 22:21:58	companion_cube	o/
2020-06-05 22:23:22	dkibi	creepy
2020-06-05 22:23:31	dkibi	I wanted to write a little maze generators to try ot cgi
2020-06-05 22:23:33	dkibi	for gemini
2020-06-05 22:23:54	dkibi	and found the maze algorithms site that was posted on hacker news (~ 3h before it was posted)
2020-06-05 22:24:16	dkibi	anyway sleeping time
2020-06-05 22:28:32	@tomasino	creeepy
2020-06-05 23:31:44	xj9	hmm a gemini interface to sourcehut could be interesting
2020-06-05 23:32:41	companion_cube	pretty cool idea indeed
2020-06-06 00:05:45	makeworld	Well the sourcehut creator has a site on Gemini so I think it could happen
2020-06-06 00:05:52	makeworld	I forget the URL rn thoughb
2020-06-06 00:10:59	@tomasino	That's awesome
2020-06-06 00:25:52	companion_cube	oh he does?
2020-06-06 02:45:17	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 02:49:36		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-06 02:49:42	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 02:51:54		Nalaph has left #gemini
2020-06-06 02:57:08		bard has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-06 03:16:20	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 06:28:04		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-06 06:31:29	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 06:31:30	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-06 07:29:57	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 08:08:29	ironzorg	has SP decided to renew his hiatus, after coming back from the first one and instantly getting burned out? :p
2020-06-06 09:23:39	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 09:24:37	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 09:24:43	solderpunk	Ahoy!
2020-06-06 09:27:19	ironzorg	hi
2020-06-06 09:27:52	solderpunk	Thought it was about time I made an appearance here.
2020-06-06 09:28:07	ironzorg	the last thing that was said before you joined in was:
2020-06-06 09:28:09	ironzorg	ironzorg | has SP decided to renew his hiatus, after coming back from the first one and instantly getting burned out? :p
2020-06-06 09:28:18	ironzorg	great timing
2020-06-06 09:28:56	ironzorg	and yes, lots of discussions happen here, so you'd be getting instant feedback on anything, better than through the ML :)
2020-06-06 09:29:43	solderpunk	Haha, honestly I think it's often instant feedback that I *don't* want, so I can think things over carefully instead of always having to react to feedback :p
2020-06-06 09:29:56	solderpunk	I have been having a productive hiatus thus far, working on Molly Brown.
2020-06-06 09:30:26	ironzorg	ah, right
2020-06-06 09:31:45	solderpunk	Adding CGI and SCGI support, and passing information about client certificates through the varibles, so I can start experimenting with the client cert stuff and decide if I want to make changes.
2020-06-06 09:31:50	solderpunk	Which I think I do.
2020-06-06 09:31:57	solderpunk	But we'll see.
2020-06-06 09:32:28	solderpunk	ironzorg, I don't recognise your nick, have you been posting on the ML with a different name, or do you have a gemini server I might recognise?
2020-06-06 09:33:08	ironzorg	neither, just interested in Gemini and thinking about what I would like to see in it
2020-06-06 09:34:05	solderpunk	Fair enough!
2020-06-06 09:34:09	ironzorg	I'd like to use it purely as a markup language for documentation and µblogging, but I'm missing inline text decorations
2020-06-06 09:34:22	ironzorg	and I can see this being heavily discussed/argued upon
2020-06-06 09:34:30	solderpunk	Like *this* and _that_?
2020-06-06 09:34:39	ironzorg	and /this/ and `that`, exactly
2020-06-06 09:35:27	ironzorg	I even played around with a Gemini-based custom markup format, which would address some problems but be completely incompatible http://dpaste.com/12MH0PC
2020-06-06 09:35:38	solderpunk	I suspect that some clients might end up handling those themselves, like modern email clients do.
2020-06-06 09:35:44	ironzorg	so… I'm just waiting for your amendments in the meantime :)
2020-06-06 09:35:58	solderpunk	But I'm wary of speccing them even as an optional thing, because the complexity can easily spiral.
2020-06-06 09:36:07	ironzorg	yea
2020-06-06 09:36:12	solderpunk	Like, if they're allowed to span multiple words, can they then span multiple lines?
2020-06-06 09:36:21	ironzorg	not in my view, c.f. link above
2020-06-06 09:36:48	ironzorg	my main concern is the conflict with bullet items, `^<space>*`
2020-06-06 09:37:09	solderpunk	Yeah, that's something else I was going to mention.
2020-06-06 09:38:18	ironzorg	so, even if clients handle this spontaneously, there's still a gap :)
2020-06-06 09:38:33	ironzorg	another topic around here is whether Petite Abeille is trolling :)
2020-06-06 09:39:11	ironzorg	and if URL fragments should be used to jump to a # header in the document, as the spec suggests a ToC could be similarly generated by the clients
2020-06-06 09:41:25		numilani has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-06 09:41:48	@julienxx	Hi solderpunk!
2020-06-06 09:42:30	▬▬▶	numilani has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 09:44:28	solderpunk	Hi julien!
2020-06-06 09:44:34	solderpunk	Haha, good question about Petite Abeille.
2020-06-06 09:44:41	solderpunk	I can't make up my mind.
2020-06-06 09:45:16	solderpunk	If they are a troll I am probably playing right into their hands by melting down over data:// URIs.
2020-06-06 09:46:51	ironzorg	I'm in the "not a troll" camp, but I don't think any more has to be said about the topic, he's swinging in the water
2020-06-06 09:49:26	solderpunk	I have wondered about the fragment thing, too.  They would kind of be long and unweildy fragments, though, right?
2020-06-06 09:49:37	solderpunk	As they'd pretty much have to be equal to the header text?
2020-06-06 09:49:52	solderpunk	Unless we came up with some kind of x.y.z numeric scheme.
2020-06-06 09:50:00	ironzorg	as with HTTP, you could do '#' + headline.replace(" ", "-")
2020-06-06 09:50:22	ironzorg	#gemini-protocol for "# Gemini Protocol"
2020-06-06 09:54:31	solderpunk	I guess that's not so bad.
2020-06-06 09:54:52	ironzorg	:)
2020-06-06 10:01:16	ironzorg	solderpunk: any idea when you're going to release a new version of the spec?
2020-06-06 10:02:03	solderpunk	I may end up doing some changes this weekend
2020-06-06 10:02:22	solderpunk	Not to the cert stuff, but getting the `lang` param in, for example.
2020-06-06 10:02:25	ironzorg	oh cool
2020-06-06 10:02:39	ironzorg	is the spec document versioned anywhere, so we can get diffs across versions?
2020-06-06 10:02:52	solderpunk	Changing the list item start from just "*" to "* ", etc.
2020-06-06 10:03:06	solderpunk	It is in a git repo, but it's entirely local to the machine it's on.
2020-06-06 10:03:19	solderpunk	I have wondered about putting the whole thing somewhere else so people can open issues, make PRs, etc.
2020-06-06 10:03:42	ironzorg	I'd be happy even with a readonly repo
2020-06-06 10:03:52	solderpunk	But I'm not sure where to do it.  The email domain whitelist at tildegit is stopping a lot of folk from contributing, so I don't think I'd want to put it there.
2020-06-06 10:03:57	solderpunk	Well, that should be easy enough to do.
2020-06-06 10:04:30	ironzorg	people can still use Git to send emails to the ML
2020-06-06 10:04:40	ironzorg	send patches*
2020-06-06 10:04:45	solderpunk	Yeah, but thanks to GitHub nobody knows how to do that :p
2020-06-06 10:05:05	ironzorg	eh
2020-06-06 10:13:10	solderpunk	Back in a bit!
2020-06-06 10:13:34	ironzorg	see you
2020-06-06 10:18:47	xq	oh, hey solderpunk
2020-06-06 10:24:42	lukee	hello all
2020-06-06 10:25:29	lukee	a +1 from me about the headline id convention, but I'd also lower case that for a common shape
2020-06-06 10:25:51	lukee	like this lowercase(headline.replace(" ", "-")) or similar. this seems to be widely used in markdown
2020-06-06 10:26:24	lukee	this way is more robust than #head1 #head2 etc
2020-06-06 10:33:33	epoch	oh damn, when did solderpunk start using IRC?
2020-06-06 10:37:37		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-06 10:38:19	epoch	> content-addressed file storage on gemini
2020-06-06 10:38:35	epoch	I was reading about someone doing some content addressed storage..
2020-06-06 10:39:23	epoch	also, if you were using a filesystem as the backing for it you could just split the path from the gemini server however you wanted.
2020-06-06 10:39:45	epoch	so you wouldn't have to add /s to the actual URL just because of a backend quirk
2020-06-06 10:48:17	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 10:49:30	epoch	ah, they were using "venti"
2020-06-06 10:49:39	epoch	which was made by the plan9 nerds it seems
2020-06-06 10:51:30	epoch	they were using it as backing for stuff posted to their pleroma instance
2020-06-06 11:36:21	⚡	xq just reworked the document rendering of Kristall
2020-06-06 11:36:21	xq	https://mq32.de/public/fbaf79f0e4f4cf4b8e61be76cc31922625fd0d24.png
2020-06-06 11:37:17	xq	(just changed the color of cross-protocol links so you can see relative/absolute/cross-protocol)
2020-06-06 11:39:35		numilani has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-06 11:40:37	solderpunk	Ooh, what's Kristall?
2020-06-06 11:40:40	▬▬▶	numilani has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 11:41:35	xq	it's a Gemini client based on Qt5 i'm working on
2020-06-06 11:41:52	xq	isn't announced on the ML yet as it's not quite ready-to-use
2020-06-06 11:42:21	solderpunk	Ah, nice.
2020-06-06 11:42:25	solderpunk	Oh, is that a screenshot you just linked?
2020-06-06 11:42:28	xq	yes!
2020-06-06 11:42:35	solderpunk	Ah, looks nice
2020-06-06 11:42:52	solderpunk	Different coloured links indicate same/different host?
2020-06-06 11:42:59	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 11:43:13	solderpunk	I haven't seen that before, I like it a lot.
2020-06-06 11:43:28	xq	if you hover the link, the status bar will show where the link leads
2020-06-06 11:43:39	solderpunk	Perfect.
2020-06-06 11:43:49	xq	we discussed image inlining yesterday
2020-06-06 11:44:03	xq	i want to have a feature that allows you opt-in load image inline into the document
2020-06-06 11:44:11	xq	so a link for an image looks like this:
2020-06-06 11:44:21	xq	→ Some Image [+]
2020-06-06 11:44:33	xq	and you can click the [+] to inline the image instead of loading it fullscreen
2020-06-06 11:45:18	solderpunk	Where "imageness" is guessed from file extension?
2020-06-06 11:45:43	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 11:46:10	xq	no additional requests, as designed by our BDFL :D
2020-06-06 11:46:20	solderpunk	Haha
2020-06-06 11:47:08	solderpunk	Making it an optional thing the user has to explicitly do for each link is fully in keeping with the intended philsoophy.  I hope it's not a slippery slope, though, to clients first adding an option to automatically do this, perhaps for trusted domains, and then eventually just doing to always.
2020-06-06 11:47:14	solderpunk	But we can't ever stop clients doing that.
2020-06-06 11:47:23	solderpunk	So I guess it's no reason not to experiment with less problematic stuff.
2020-06-06 11:47:39	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 11:47:58	xq	i don't have domain trust built-in yet (so no TOFU, just "accept all")
2020-06-06 11:48:19	xq	but it's planned and you should be able to trivially revoke your trust
2020-06-06 11:49:16	solderpunk	I'm glad to see more people planning to adopt the TOFU idea.
2020-06-06 11:49:23	xq	i really like it
2020-06-06 11:49:32	solderpunk	I have, like, a bajillion TOFU-adjacent ideas I want to experiment with, but have been prioritising the basics first.
2020-06-06 11:49:45	xq	i'm still thinking about how it would look like for a good client
2020-06-06 11:49:57	solderpunk	It's definitely a tricky UI issue.
2020-06-06 11:50:04	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 11:50:15	xq	i think i'll add several trust levels
2020-06-06 11:50:30	xq	like, unattended tofu (just trusts on first use)
2020-06-06 11:50:47	xq	tofu with confirmation (does this site looks like the one you wanted to visit)
2020-06-06 11:51:15	solderpunk	TOFU with DANE check is something I'm keen to try.
2020-06-06 11:51:43	xq	DANE sounds quite good
2020-06-06 11:51:59	solderpunk	Also an idea that server admins can pre-announce the fingerprint of their next cert at a well-known URL, and having TOFU clients automatically check that when they notice a trusted cert has one month to go before expiry or something.
2020-06-06 11:52:22	solderpunk	Since renewing an expiring cert is the big risk time for TOFU.
2020-06-06 11:52:29	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 11:52:37	xq	do you have an idea on how to solve the client certificate stuff yet?
2020-06-06 11:52:58	solderpunk	Also some kind of Convergence/Perspectives-esque system where a client can query various geographically distributed servers that say whether or not they've seen a fingerprint before.
2020-06-06 11:53:22	solderpunk	I am thinking pretty seriously about streamlining the in-protocol support for client certs.
2020-06-06 11:53:45	solderpunk	In particular, I've realised that the transient cert idea, as currently specced, totally violates the idea that simple clients can ignore the second digit of a status code and still do the right thing.
2020-06-06 11:54:31	solderpunk	I think the in-band transient cert idea is a clever solution in search of a problem, perhaps.
2020-06-06 11:54:52	solderpunk	And maybe the stuff in the protocol should be simpler, and good clients should offer transient certs as a feature of their own.
2020-06-06 11:57:17	xq	hmm
2020-06-06 11:57:32	xq	i really love the idea of using temporary client certs as a replacement for cookies
2020-06-06 11:58:35	solderpunk	Me too!  But I don't see why, e.g., when a user "deactivates" a cert in their client, the client can't say "Hey, wanna destroy this cert forever?".
2020-06-06 11:59:26	solderpunk	Without the requirement that the server signalled it as being transient in the first place.
2020-06-06 11:59:38	solderpunk	Basically, let the user make the transient/persistent decision themselves, always.
2020-06-06 11:59:59	xq	sounds reasonable
2020-06-06 12:00:11	xq	so status code "6x" will have a usage hint
2020-06-06 12:00:12	xq	like
2020-06-06 12:00:28	xq	60 Requires client certificate for session management
2020-06-06 12:00:29	xq	or
2020-06-06 12:00:38	xq	60 Please authenticate yourself
2020-06-06 12:00:43	solderpunk	Something like that.
2020-06-06 12:00:59	solderpunk	I still need to think about how to use <META> for 6x statuses.
2020-06-06 12:01:16	xq	and using the second number for hinting the client software about the certificate usage
2020-06-06 12:01:29	solderpunk	It could convey really useful information, like a path which the certificate should be used for sub-paths of.
2020-06-06 12:01:41	solderpunk	Right now, client certs are specced (vaguely!) as being domain-specific.
2020-06-06 12:01:45	solderpunk	Which fails badly for multi-user hosts.
2020-06-06 12:01:51	xq	true
2020-06-06 12:02:01	solderpunk	It would be nice if servers could specify very narrowly applicable certs.
2020-06-06 12:02:02	xq	user has a "popup" where they can chose a certificate or create a new one
2020-06-06 12:02:14	solderpunk	We don't need to copy the idea of cookies applying for entire domains.
2020-06-06 12:02:51	solderpunk	So, possibly the <META> becomes a machine-centric thing (like for 2X or 3x) rather than a human-centric thing.
2020-06-06 12:03:18	xq	would be an option as well
2020-06-06 12:03:36	solderpunk	In which case it could also specify a suggested duration in days?  Overridable by the user always, but a clear way for servers to be able to hint at whether "I expect you to delete this after you fill out htis multi-part form" or "Your identity is permanently tied to this cert, back it up!".
2020-06-06 12:03:49	xq	but then you can still provide info like "authenticate yourself" or "provide means to recognize you later"
2020-06-06 12:06:08	solderpunk	Yeah, whatever ends up happening with <META> I would like it to be a strong convention that pages linking to resources which return a 6x code make it clear in writing what's going on.
2020-06-06 12:07:19	solderpunk	Just about done converting the spec to text/gemini.
2020-06-06 12:07:50	xq	uh, nice @ text/gemini
2020-06-06 12:07:57	styan	If there is a "permanent association" mode for certificates, what would updating the client certificate possibly look like (eg. to a newer algorithm)?
2020-06-06 12:07:59	solderpunk	Because there are no actual links in there, it's easy to convert it to HTML by treating it as Markdown, so the web version of the spec should look a little fancier soon.
2020-06-06 12:08:04	xq	and yeah, sounds reasonabe that people should describe what happens
2020-06-06 12:08:38	solderpunk	One possibility is that you visit the relevant site with the old cert selected, and visit a menu item designed especially for this purpose.
2020-06-06 12:08:55	solderpunk	Which then returns a page with a link to a special URL with a randomly generated token in it.
2020-06-06 12:09:00	xq	using a token to refresh it should be possible
2020-06-06 12:09:02	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 12:09:08	xq	btw
2020-06-06 12:09:12	solderpunk	And the first client cert used to visit that URL within the next 60 minutes becomes your "new" identity.
2020-06-06 12:09:33	xq	servers may also be able to serve a "20" instead of a "6x" when authentication is required
2020-06-06 12:09:57	xq	"This site is here, but authentication is required to display this page. Please enable your user identitiy client certificate and refresh"
2020-06-06 12:10:05	solderpunk	Or, the server could use 10 to ask you, while using your old cert, to provide it the fingerprint of a new cert.
2020-06-06 12:10:17	solderpunk	That's perhaps a bit less fiddly.
2020-06-06 12:10:52	solderpunk	Yeah, CGI apps can definitely do something like that 20 or 60 thing based on whether or not they see the environment variables for a cert.
2020-06-06 12:10:53	xq	hm, does anyone of you know a gemini url that serves text/markdown with the correct mime type? :D
2020-06-06 12:10:57	xq	my server doesn't recognize .md
2020-06-06 12:12:01	solderpunk	Hmm, @kensanta has some, right?
2020-06-06 12:12:30	styan	Maybe a status 1[1-9] to indicate a request for a (possibly) automated response would be useful such tasks?
2020-06-06 12:13:29	styan	With a machine focused META instead of the human focused prompt.
2020-06-06 12:13:49	xq	i don't think that's a good idea
2020-06-06 12:14:11	xq	automated responses sound bad to me
2020-06-06 12:14:31	solderpunk	Hmm, maybe there isn't text/markdown at Alex's site anymore, I can't find it now.
2020-06-06 12:15:30	styan	My thought was just to have "new-fingerprint" instead of "New Certificate Fingerprint? ", but I see the point.
2020-06-06 12:18:29	styan	Few enough sites would have a use for long-term certificates like that, so having a more standardized way to update them probably does not *really* matter.
2020-06-06 12:20:09	solderpunk	I'm hoping that the most common use for really long-term certs like this is actually for self-hosted apps, where it's easy enough to just change these things yourself.
2020-06-06 12:20:20	solderpunk	Like adding a new ssh key to .authorized_keys
2020-06-06 12:21:24	solderpunk	The combination of client certs and the 10 status code make it *really* easy to host simple little apps that feel like CLI programs, but only you can access them, you can access them from anywhere, and unlike ssh you don't need to disconnect/reconnect when e.g. turning off a laptop.
2020-06-06 12:21:49	solderpunk	Or worry about using screen/tmux etc.
2020-06-06 12:22:04	xq	yeah true
2020-06-06 12:22:30	solderpunk	I think that could be a nice little niche application for some people.
2020-06-06 12:22:45	styan	That idea sounds really neat.
2020-06-06 12:22:46	solderpunk	And it's something Gemini does way better than Gopher or the web.
2020-06-06 12:23:12	xq	oh btw
2020-06-06 12:23:15		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-06 12:23:29	xq	have you thought about my proposal regarding larger data uploads?
2020-06-06 12:24:13	solderpunk	I have not, and I'm already panicing :p
2020-06-06 12:24:34	xq	haha
2020-06-06 12:24:41	solderpunk	(only half joking, tell me about it!)
2020-06-06 12:25:01	xq	discussion was some while ago on the ML
2020-06-06 12:25:12	xq	about extending "10" to allow larger uploads
2020-06-06 12:25:13	solderpunk	Oh, was it you who suggested the idea of server-initiated uploads?
2020-06-06 12:25:25	xq	yeah probably :D
2020-06-06 12:25:32	styan	As long as there is not an explosion of gemini-games, all doing cert-updating a different way, or not doing it at all.  That was the only possibility that I had in my head earlier. :-)
2020-06-06 12:25:50	xq	i just noticed that it's probably a stupid idea to do it this way
2020-06-06 12:26:17	xq	but i stil like to see some way of uploading larger data via gemini
2020-06-06 12:26:43	xq	with client certs, it would allow some cool services similar puush.me or pastebin.com
2020-06-06 12:26:55	solderpunk	I'm hoping that after a brief period of exploration, there will be a small number of cert-managing paradigms which are obviously better than the rest, and they can be written up as best practices.
2020-06-06 12:27:55	solderpunk	I mean, it would be ugly (which might be a good thing, to discourage frivolous use?), but you could specify some kind of upload-via-Gemini meta-protocol around what's there now, right?
2020-06-06 12:28:16	solderpunk	Like the server could issue a 10, you could upload some base64 data, the server could reply with another 10 asking if there's more or that's it, etc.
2020-06-06 12:28:20	styan	That seems much, much, more likely than my contrived scenario.
2020-06-06 12:28:32	solderpunk	With machine-readable <METAs> by convention.
2020-06-06 12:28:39	xq	solderpunk: i mentioned that this is a option that will happen
2020-06-06 12:28:41	solderpunk	So you could write an upload program that automated it for you.
2020-06-06 12:29:24	solderpunk	I'm not sure how I feel about that option, compared to putting in first-class support for it.
2020-06-06 12:29:34	xq	and with only having ~300 byte per request, uploading an image costs 2083 requests :D
2020-06-06 12:29:44	xq	just as a reference ^^
2020-06-06 12:30:08	xq	(which is a 700k PNG file)
2020-06-06 12:30:24	xq	ah wait
2020-06-06 12:30:39	xq	misinterpreted some data
2020-06-06 12:30:43	xq	still ~1000 requests though
2020-06-06 12:30:44	styan	solderpunk: I find it really neat that the problem space for gemini allows for such interesting hacks, but is small enough that I was half way though thinking of the exact same solution!
2020-06-06 12:31:47	xq	with TLS overhead, it would take ages compared to an actual upload operation
2020-06-06 12:32:11	solderpunk	Fair point.
2020-06-06 12:32:23	▬▬▶	quark has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 12:32:29	solderpunk	Then again, there are lots of reasons Gemini is not a good fit for "large" files, even when just downloading.
2020-06-06 12:32:42	solderpunk	No compression, no caching, no resumption of interrupted downloads, etc.
2020-06-06 12:32:51	solderpunk	"Keep Gemini files small!" should be a thing.
2020-06-06 12:33:02	solderpunk	Although whether or not 700k counts as "large" is debatable.
2020-06-06 12:33:23	xq	spec says something about 100 MB which i implemented in my clients as a maximum read size
2020-06-06 12:33:32	xq	i would count everything <5MB as small
2020-06-06 12:33:42	xq	that's a thing i can even dowload via bad mobile internet connections
2020-06-06 12:33:51	@tomasino	solderpunk!!!
2020-06-06 12:33:57	solderpunk	Tomasino!!!
2020-06-06 12:34:11	@tomasino	Glad you made it in
2020-06-06 12:34:17	solderpunk	Tetsuo!!!
2020-06-06 12:34:24	solderpunk	Thanks for giving me the push.
2020-06-06 12:34:28	@tomasino	Kenada!
2020-06-06 12:35:12	@tomasino	My pleasure. I'll have to catch up on the chatter in a bit. I'm out in the countryside today. Waterfalls and rivers
2020-06-06 12:35:31	styan	xq: If you want to get really hacky, you could start a gemini server on your local machine, serve it via an onion address, and give the URL to the destination server.  :-)
2020-06-06 12:36:18	solderpunk	Sounds lovely!  Crappy weather here this weekend so I'll be hacking on Gemini most of the time.
2020-06-06 12:37:04	xq	styan: that's actually a funny idea, i like it
2020-06-06 12:37:37	xq	but i still kinda like the "input expected" thing where the user uploads data when the server requests it
2020-06-06 12:38:28	lukee	about the image or content inlining - we just a way to hint to the client. I think it is v important it is user optional not expected
2020-06-06 12:38:37	lukee	I put some thoughts here https://github.com/LukeEmmet/GeminiLUACH
2020-06-06 12:38:45	lukee	Or maybe something can go in the spec
2020-06-06 12:39:31	xq	hey lukee
2020-06-06 12:39:43	solderpunk	Hey lukee!
2020-06-06 12:39:51	xq	you're the guy with GemiNaut, right?
2020-06-06 12:39:56	solderpunk	Yes!
2020-06-06 12:40:17	solderpunk	I am such a GemiNaut fan!
2020-06-06 12:40:28	solderpunk	I have never before been such a big fan of a program I have never once used :p
2020-06-06 12:41:48	lukee	Ha ha
2020-06-06 12:41:52	lukee	yes thats me
2020-06-06 12:42:12	lukee	Thanks for the positive feedback
2020-06-06 12:42:29	solderpunk	I'm really glad to see ideas like TOCs and per-site scheming getting implemented.
2020-06-06 12:44:27		quark has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-06 12:45:29	lukee	really I'm just piggy backing on top of html rendering, so its not too hard
2020-06-06 12:45:55	lukee	but still it is nice to have your own client to try these things out
2020-06-06 12:46:53	lukee	I hope to refactor it a bit so users can provide their own theme
2020-06-06 12:47:20	solderpunk	Hmm, maybe I over-estimated how simple using a Markdown processor to turn a text/gemini version of the spec into HTML would be.
2020-06-06 12:48:26	solderpunk	Lots of silly little fiddly things keep getting in the way.
2020-06-06 12:48:27	lukee	I can try to pull that bit out - it uses rebol, so the GMI to HTML is cross platform
2020-06-06 12:49:22	xq	hm
2020-06-06 12:49:30	xq	i removed the HTML renderer from my project just yesterday
2020-06-06 12:49:37	xq	makes it *way* faster
2020-06-06 12:51:08	lukee	in my experience its the networking/TLS that takes the longest part of page lifecycle
2020-06-06 12:51:33	xq	it doesnt!
2020-06-06 12:51:42	solderpunk	Haha, along with all my advanced-TOFU stuff, I have a tonne of ideas to throw out regarding TLS overhead.
2020-06-06 12:51:47	xq	i have implemented QTextDocument and QWebView at the same time
2020-06-06 12:51:54	xq	and the text document was roughly 1 sec faster
2020-06-06 12:52:29	lukee	huh - different experience over here on windows
2020-06-06 12:54:26	~tiwesdaeg	hey solderpunk, welcome!
2020-06-06 12:55:12	solderpunk	Hey tiwesdaeg, thank you!
2020-06-06 12:55:42	solderpunk	I guess https://gemini.circumlunar.space/test.html doesn't look too broken now?
2020-06-06 12:56:36	~tiwesdaeg	all the Europeans and Asians getting in on the early chatting
2020-06-06 12:58:06	xq	looks good!
2020-06-06 12:58:22	xq	i would put something like
2020-06-06 12:58:23	xq	=>[<whitespace>]<URL>[<whitespace><USER-FRIENDLY LINK NAME>]<CR><LF>
2020-06-06 12:58:25	xq	into preformatted
2020-06-06 12:58:35	solderpunk	Oh, did I miss one?
2020-06-06 12:59:00	xq	oh
2020-06-06 12:59:10	xq	wait, i change the style for your site so i can differentiate :D
2020-06-06 12:59:17	solderpunk	Haha, sorry
2020-06-06 12:59:39	xq	the first one: v
2020-06-06 12:59:39	xq	<URL><CR><LF>
2020-06-06 12:59:42	solderpunk	You're right, the current style doesn't suit this new content very well.
2020-06-06 12:59:54	solderpunk	Ah, right.
2020-06-06 12:59:56	solderpunk	Hmm.
2020-06-06 13:00:56	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o solderpunk] by ChanServ
2020-06-06 13:01:26	~tiwesdaeg	looks like you registered your nick ;P
2020-06-06 13:02:10	@solderpunk	Oh dear, I certainly haven't.
2020-06-06 13:02:16	~tiwesdaeg	hmm
2020-06-06 13:02:22	~tiwesdaeg	who knows then
2020-06-06 13:02:49	~tiwesdaeg	I thought chanserv only performed autoop on registered nicks
2020-06-06 13:06:19	~tiwesdaeg	xq: do you have your client on a public git site?
2020-06-06 13:06:39	xq	https://github.com/masterQ32/kristall
2020-06-06 13:06:45	xq	no binaries provided atm
2020-06-06 13:07:14	xq	the outline generation just breaks atm in some cases :D
2020-06-06 13:07:21	~tiwesdaeg	I don't think anyone is providing binaries except on windows
2020-06-06 13:07:23	⚡	xq started writing another client torture suite
2020-06-06 13:07:56	@solderpunk	Popping out for a bit again!
2020-06-06 13:08:34	~tiwesdaeg	have a good one
2020-06-06 13:09:45	xq	ha!
2020-06-06 13:09:47	xq	it works!
2020-06-06 13:09:58	xq	i can now differentiate between 6 classes of links :D
2020-06-06 13:11:44	~tiwesdaeg	xq: can you point me towards an instruction on how to compile qt5?
2020-06-06 13:12:08	lukee	hi folks got to go - catch up again soon
2020-06-06 13:12:47	xq	tiwesdaeg: I have just installed it from my distro distribution
2020-06-06 13:12:59	xq	and then using qmake/make for building the actual program itself
2020-06-06 13:13:04	xq	what distro are you using?
2020-06-06 13:13:19	~tiwesdaeg	netbsd
2020-06-06 13:13:44	~tiwesdaeg	you have to generate a Makefile first?
2020-06-06 13:14:38	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 13:14:46	xq	qt is using qmake as a precompiler/project file system
2020-06-06 13:15:41	⚡	tiwesdaeg is installing the qt5 meta package
2020-06-06 13:16:03	xq	if you figure out how it works on netbsd, i'd love to include a installation instruction :)
2020-06-06 13:16:29	~tiwesdaeg	I've been able to figure out most gemini software
2020-06-06 13:16:54	~tiwesdaeg	it always takes a bit to learn how to compile a new language
2020-06-06 13:16:59	styan	tiwesdaeg: If you are using LibreSSL, qt5's network layer will not work.
2020-06-06 13:17:22	~tiwesdaeg	I learned a lot about go by trying to smash and openbsd based program in to working for netbsd
2020-06-06 13:18:04	~tiwesdaeg	openssl is installed
2020-06-06 13:18:20	~tiwesdaeg	I'm pretty sure I needed it for one of the rust programs
2020-06-06 13:26:04	xq	hm
2020-06-06 13:26:26	xq	i using agate for serving my gemini site
2020-06-06 13:26:32	xq	and it looks like it breaks some time
2020-06-06 13:33:32	~tiwesdaeg	ok, getting a build error on QWidget
2020-06-06 13:34:07	~tiwesdaeg	I've got every QT5 package installed, so I'm going to have to dig around
2020-06-06 13:36:24	xq	huh
2020-06-06 13:36:30	xq	when building qt or kristall=
2020-06-06 13:39:04	~tiwesdaeg	kristall
2020-06-06 13:39:14	makeworld	solderpunk Woah, glad to have you here
2020-06-06 13:39:18	~tiwesdaeg	I don't even know what I am doing really
2020-06-06 13:39:46	~tiwesdaeg	I ran qmake -project, but I'm guessing that's just to initiate a new project
2020-06-06 13:39:48	makeworld	Also about the linking to headers, there's an existing standard we should probably just reuse: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/markdown.html#header-ids-and-links
2020-06-06 13:40:13	~tiwesdaeg	then I just ran qmake kristall.pro and then gmake
2020-06-06 13:40:30	~tiwesdaeg	netbsd generally needs gmake run on linux projects
2020-06-06 13:40:53	xq	tiwesdaeg:
2020-06-06 13:40:58	~tiwesdaeg	its own verson of make has different standards
2020-06-06 13:41:00	xq	in the project directory:
2020-06-06 13:41:08	xq	mkdir build; cd build; qmake ../kristall.pro; make -j
2020-06-06 13:41:23	~tiwesdaeg	ahhh
2020-06-06 13:41:25	~tiwesdaeg	ok
2020-06-06 13:41:38	~tiwesdaeg	I've this once before, with ddate
2020-06-06 13:43:21	~tiwesdaeg	xq: still getting a ../browsertab.hpp:4:10: fatal error: QWidget: No such file or directory
2020-06-06 13:43:27	xq	huh
2020-06-06 13:43:41	xq	weird, seems like it's missing a qt installation?!
2020-06-06 13:43:53	styan	I made wrote a gmi2html converter, because I literally can not resist AWK: https://paste.tildeverse.org/?751148ebfb76ed07#3nHcFKVqhPt3sLd3YV4Lj8MmnrxJkpyjJzc9LyNA66Uh
2020-06-06 13:43:54	~tiwesdaeg	netbsd being weird again
2020-06-06 13:44:01	styan	s/made//
2020-06-06 13:44:05	styan	bad delete
2020-06-06 13:45:32	⚡	xq screams over his stupidity
2020-06-06 13:47:00	xq	i've read network data byte by byte
2020-06-06 13:47:09	xq	i've stopped doing this
2020-06-06 13:47:14	xq	now suddenly everything is fsat
2020-06-06 13:47:46	styan	xq: Kristall compiles and runs on FreeBSD.
2020-06-06 13:47:51	makeworld	Good fix lol :)
2020-06-06 13:48:18	xq	styan: whoo! \o/
2020-06-06 13:48:26	xq	can do requests? :D
2020-06-06 13:48:38	styan	It loaded the default page, so yes?
2020-06-06 13:48:40	xq	this means i can add one OS to the list of supported operating systems
2020-06-06 13:48:57	lick	are there any open source gemini to http proxies?
2020-06-06 13:50:02	styan	xq: C++ is (un?)fortunately more portable than Zig :-)
2020-06-06 13:50:08	~tiwesdaeg	styan: any weird issues with missing dependencies?
2020-06-06 13:50:25	xq	styan: c++ is way more mature than zig
2020-06-06 13:51:16	styan	tiwesdaeg: No, sorry.
2020-06-06 13:52:28	styan	xq: I know, I was just lightly teasing Zig :-)
2020-06-06 13:52:43	xq	i was triggered shortly :D
2020-06-06 13:52:49	xq	but you are right ^^
2020-06-06 13:55:07	styan	tiwesdaeg: It is linked against Qt5Widgets, Qt5Gui, and Qt5Network if that helps.
2020-06-06 13:56:08	makeworld	Hey you know what I noticed last night?
2020-06-06 13:56:23	makeworld	Markdown documents now vastly outnumber gemini document on Gemini now
2020-06-06 13:56:27	~tiwesdaeg	libQt5Widgets.so
2020-06-06 13:56:30	makeworld	Thanks to one man and his wiki site
2020-06-06 13:56:41	~tiwesdaeg	I do have that
2020-06-06 13:56:52	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-06-06 13:57:09	makeworld	Nearly two times more MD then gmi
2020-06-06 13:57:15	makeworld	gemini://gus.guru:1965/statistics
2020-06-06 13:57:51	makeworld	gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1965/ is the culprit
2020-06-06 14:00:32	styan	xq: Kristall looks good so far, it would be interesting when you have styling and I can get rid of the header colors :-)
2020-06-06 14:00:48	xq	styan: working on it!
2020-06-06 14:00:50	xq	in the moment!
2020-06-06 14:00:57	xq	colors are just debugging colors atm
2020-06-06 14:01:11	xq	i'd like to explore "light/dark color schemes deduced by host name"
2020-06-06 14:01:13	xq	a bit
2020-06-06 14:01:19	xq	and i need configurable styling for this anyways
2020-06-06 14:01:35	styan	Would tilde.black automatically be light-on-black?
2020-06-06 14:01:50	xq	haha :D
2020-06-06 14:01:59	makeworld	I'm thinking about italicizing quote lines in my client
2020-06-06 14:02:01	xq	(domain.contains("black")) { theme = dark; }
2020-06-06 14:02:07	xq	oh btw
2020-06-06 14:02:15	xq	makeworld, thanks for embedding ansi escapes in your site!
2020-06-06 14:02:23	xq	i can now write text to strip them :D
2020-06-06 14:02:27	xq	*tests
2020-06-06 14:02:27	makeworld	Haha, you're welcome?
2020-06-06 14:02:28	~tiwesdaeg	-I/usr/pkg/qt5/include/QtWidgets in the makefile include section got me further
2020-06-06 14:02:35	makeworld	Hey, process them instead! Lol
2020-06-06 14:02:39	~tiwesdaeg	qmake didn't generate that
2020-06-06 14:02:57	~tiwesdaeg	now it's failing on QSslSocket
2020-06-06 14:03:54	xq	probably the same thing…
2020-06-06 14:04:37	~tiwesdaeg	it's not in /usr/pkg/qt5/include like QTWidgets
2020-06-06 14:05:20	~tiwesdaeg	found it
2020-06-06 14:07:54	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 14:08:20	~tiwesdaeg	 #include "ui_browsertab.h" ?
2020-06-06 14:08:47	xq	that should be generated by qmake on the call
2020-06-06 14:09:04	xq	it's in the same directory where you called qmake
2020-06-06 14:09:25	~tiwesdaeg	qmake is not behaving normally ;P
2020-06-06 14:10:37	xq	seems so
2020-06-06 14:12:49	~tiwesdaeg	version is 5.14.1
2020-06-06 14:13:41	makeworld	I was thinking about putting 5 MiB as the limit for pages in my client, before it brings up a prompt at least
2020-06-06 14:13:59	xq	tiwesdaeg: that sounds okay to me
2020-06-06 14:18:05	~tiwesdaeg	ok so... I just pulled a clean copy and built it the right way from the get go
2020-06-06 14:18:09	~tiwesdaeg	and it worked just fine
2020-06-06 14:18:25	~tiwesdaeg	I over complicated things by messing it up in the first
2020-06-06 14:18:36	~tiwesdaeg	so, it works on netbsd!
2020-06-06 14:18:56	xq	\o/
2020-06-06 14:19:21	~tiwesdaeg	ahhhhh, the link mouse icon points the wrong way!
2020-06-06 14:20:30	xq	:D
2020-06-06 14:20:37	~tiwesdaeg	back button isn't working for me
2020-06-06 14:21:14	xq	yep
2020-06-06 14:21:19	xq	it's not implemented yet
2020-06-06 14:21:33	xq	still pondering about how to implement back/forth
2020-06-06 14:21:42	xq	welll, "back" is easy
2020-06-06 14:21:50	xq	but forward makes the stuff a bit more complicated
2020-06-06 14:21:52	xq	i think i have a solution
2020-06-06 14:21:57	xq	but that will have to wait until styling
2020-06-06 14:22:07	makeworld	What's that? I want to implement this too
2020-06-06 14:22:11	~tiwesdaeg	I like the cert section
2020-06-06 14:22:17	~tiwesdaeg	you know, when you get ti work
2020-06-06 14:22:57	~tiwesdaeg	I don't think any other client makes certs visible in the browser
2020-06-06 14:23:30	xq	hehe
2020-06-06 14:23:32	xq	thanks
2020-06-06 14:23:40	xq	but yeah, gemini is about user control and transparency
2020-06-06 14:23:51	xq	and i want to make a client that is inheriting these thoughts
2020-06-06 14:24:09	xq	makeworld: when navigating forward, you don't change history, but only move a pointer where in history you are
2020-06-06 14:24:18	xq	when then navigating somewhere else
2020-06-06 14:24:29	makeworld	Couldn't you just have  an array of URLs? And when they go forward, you slice the array up to the that point and add the new url to the end
2020-06-06 14:24:31	xq	you cut everything from the "future" history and start anew
2020-06-06 14:24:32	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-06 14:24:41	xq	same thought i think :D
2020-06-06 14:24:43	makeworld	Ah that's sort of what I said, I think
2020-06-06 14:24:46	~tiwesdaeg	xq: also, being able to click and load a url from the history pane
2020-06-06 14:24:47	makeworld	Lol :)
2020-06-06 14:25:16	xq	tiwesdaeg: should work already, right?
2020-06-06 14:25:27	~tiwesdaeg	not for me
2020-06-06 14:25:32	xq	okay, then it's not done yet :D
2020-06-06 14:25:33	~tiwesdaeg	I tried single and double click
2020-06-06 14:25:35	~tiwesdaeg	right click
2020-06-06 14:26:01	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 14:26:10	xq	there's a reason i didn't announce it on the ML yet :D
2020-06-06 14:26:21	xq	but we can get to a usable state today i think
2020-06-06 14:27:33	~tiwesdaeg	I'll try a build on openbsd later today
2020-06-06 14:28:14	~tiwesdaeg	we get that working and you support the trifecta of BSDs
2020-06-06 14:29:41	xq	nice
2020-06-06 14:44:00	xq	styan: https://mq32.de/public/f50ed2451652af4105d50c92849e4856a17f57ed.png
2020-06-06 14:44:09	xq	setting the font works now :)
2020-06-06 14:47:13	makeworld	Different stylings for different types of links.. cool
2020-06-06 14:47:17	makeworld	I might steal that
2020-06-06 14:49:23	~tiwesdaeg	nice
2020-06-06 14:49:29		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-06 14:49:37	~tiwesdaeg	ok, I need to go finish mowing
2020-06-06 14:49:59	~tiwesdaeg	I'll be back in a few hours to try out the openbsd compile
2020-06-06 14:51:05	xq	whoo, thanks! :)
2020-06-06 14:53:08	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 14:57:18	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 15:00:15		andinus has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-06 15:06:04	rak	Has the gemini server on gemini.circumlunar.space been upgraded in the past day? My WIP client was working with it yesterday, but I'm suddenly getting unexpected_message alerts.
2020-06-06 15:09:19	makeworld	What would be causing those?
2020-06-06 15:14:06	rak	Not sure, either I'm sending an "inappropriate message", or I'm receiving one (I don't yet understand the OCaml TLS implementation well enough to figure which). I do manage to connect to a local openssl s_server without issues. It's very mysterious.
2020-06-06 15:14:10	rak	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5246#section-7.2.2
2020-06-06 15:18:27		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-06 15:32:51	@solderpunk	Hey rak - Molly Brown has undergone a *lot* of work in the past 36 hours or so, which is almost certainly the cause of what you're noticing!
2020-06-06 15:33:06	@solderpunk	It could *easily* be a bug I've introduced on my end.
2020-06-06 15:33:18	@solderpunk	If you can figure out exactly what is going on, please let me know.
2020-06-06 15:35:41	@solderpunk	And speaking of change at gemini.circumlunar.space...
2020-06-06 15:35:55	@solderpunk	The spec, FAQ and best practices document are now all being served as text/gmi.
2020-06-06 15:36:14	@solderpunk	The stuff being served on https:// is converted from the original with a markdown tool and little bit of sed patching.
2020-06-06 15:36:25	@solderpunk	The stuff being served on gopher:// is converted from the original using fmt.
2020-06-06 15:36:49	@solderpunk	I *think* everything is looking fairly nice on all three protocols now, but testing is very welcome, especially in graphical Gemini clients.
2020-06-06 15:37:13	@solderpunk	URLs have changed (.txt becomes .gmi or .html depending on protocol, and spec-spec is now just specification).
2020-06-06 15:37:29	@solderpunk	Via gemini:// you should get status 30 redirects from the old URLs, so bookmarks etc. should still work.
2020-06-06 15:37:45	@solderpunk	The .txt https:// URLs should still work too.
2020-06-06 15:38:06	@solderpunk	But, in general, testing of bookmarks/links/etc is very welcome.
2020-06-06 15:47:33	rak	solderpunk: I'll get the molly brown source and try to git bisect it and find out which commit is causing the change in behaviour, thanks!
2020-06-06 15:49:45	makeworld	The homepage still links to the txt versions tw
2020-06-06 15:49:48	makeworld	*btw
2020-06-06 15:51:36	@solderpunk	lol, thanks, nice catch!
2020-06-06 15:51:48	@solderpunk	Wait.
2020-06-06 15:51:53	@solderpunk	Which homepage
2020-06-06 15:51:53	@solderpunk	?
2020-06-06 15:57:25	~tiwesdaeg	the links work for me
2020-06-06 15:58:26	xj9	oi solderpunk
2020-06-06 15:58:50	@solderpunk	Sempai~!
2020-06-06 15:58:54	@solderpunk	So glad you're here.
2020-06-06 15:59:02	@solderpunk	Tell me about this rlog thing.
2020-06-06 16:00:26	@solderpunk	Or link me to a blog post, if you've made one and I missed the toot.
2020-06-06 16:08:10	xq	solderpunk: i'm playing around with auto-themeing atm
2020-06-06 16:09:21	makeworld	solderpunk: gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-06-06 16:09:32	makeworld	The links on there don't go to an HTML page
2020-06-06 16:09:47	@solderpunk	At https://gemini.circumlunar.space?
2020-06-06 16:10:01	@solderpunk	They should, and do for me...
2020-06-06 16:10:28	@solderpunk	xq: nice, what sort of things are you changing?
2020-06-06 16:10:40	xq	color theme atm
2020-06-06 16:11:37	~tiwesdaeg	user customizable?
2020-06-06 16:12:09	@solderpunk	Are you finding it difficult to programmatically generate a large number of colour combinations that don't look too hideous?
2020-06-06 16:12:21	makeworld	Whoops, I just had to clear my cache sorry
2020-06-06 16:12:25	xq	nah
2020-06-06 16:12:30	makeworld	Lookingg very nice
2020-06-06 16:12:30	xq	i'm a graphics/shader coder
2020-06-06 16:12:35	xq	math and color is the same thing for me :D
2020-06-06 16:12:40	xq	right now i'm only playing with HSL
2020-06-06 16:12:54	xq	and just make a 2-color palaette based on the hue and hue + 180°
2020-06-06 16:13:24	@solderpunk	Oh, right, you're the demoscener?
2020-06-06 16:13:59	@solderpunk	makeworld: Ah, glad it's working.
2020-06-06 16:14:10	xq	yeah!
2020-06-06 16:14:13	@solderpunk	I toned down the retro theming a bit, I don't think it worked super well for long, detailed documents.
2020-06-06 16:14:29	makeworld	The red bg was a bit hard to read, yeah
2020-06-06 16:16:14	@solderpunk	Now that everything's in text/gemini and the conversions are all automated, I can make some changes to the spec and FAQ tomorrow.
2020-06-06 16:18:21	ironzorg	yea I floated the idea that emails could be written in text/gemini, to see what the spec would be lacking better
2020-06-06 16:18:32	ironzorg	on the ML that is
2020-06-06 16:21:44	@solderpunk	That's what I write actual Gemini content for :p
2020-06-06 16:22:19	ironzorg	great, it seems that most of the vocal community is focused on doing web stuff with it >)
2020-06-06 16:22:26	ironzorg	:)
2020-06-06 16:24:31	xq	generating a lot of color schemes: https://mq32.de/public/kristall-01.mp4
2020-06-06 16:25:33	@solderpunk	Aah, that looks friggin' sweet!
2020-06-06 16:25:42	xq	thanks!
2020-06-06 16:25:52	xq	wasn't that hard actually
2020-06-06 16:25:53	@solderpunk	I look forward to being able to try it out.
2020-06-06 16:25:58	ironzorg	xq: what's this "local link" thing
2020-06-06 16:26:09	xq	ironzorg: referring to the same or another domain/host
2020-06-06 16:26:21	ironzorg	yea I assume it's -> but is that standard?
2020-06-06 16:26:24	xq	"hash domain name, use bytes as a hsl angle, use that for color stuff"
2020-06-06 16:26:35	xq	ironzorg: it's just a way to display links ;)
2020-06-06 16:26:46	ironzorg	oh it's a display thing, right!
2020-06-06 16:26:59	ironzorg	cool idea
2020-06-06 16:27:02	xq	using a link referring to the same domain/host is using →, a link to an extern host displays a ⇒
2020-06-06 16:27:34	▬▬▶	f932Blaire28 has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 16:27:36		f932Blaire28 has left #gemini
2020-06-06 16:28:22	xq	now i have to figure out how/where to store settings with Qt
2020-06-06 16:32:18	ironzorg	solderpunk: ever considered using whatever follows ^``` for anything at all?
2020-06-06 16:45:41	jan	xq: your colorscheme dialog looks nice!
2020-06-06 16:47:08	jan	is there a changelog of the gemini spec somewhere? that would be nice for implementors
2020-06-06 16:47:54	@solderpunk	jan: I will try to get around to setting up the git daemon on gemini.circumlunar.space so people can check out copies of the repo with the spec and other documents in it.
2020-06-06 16:48:13	@solderpunk	ironzorg: Yeah, there's still  big ongoing discussion about using that text for something like "alt text".
2020-06-06 16:49:23	jan	solderpunk: thanks :)
2020-06-06 16:51:42	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 16:52:29	xq	jan: thanks!
2020-06-06 16:54:38	ironzorg	solderpunk: underwhelming, any other ideas? :p
2020-06-06 16:59:59	xj9	solderpunk: rlog is a simple append-only log format with some crypto verficication built in
2020-06-06 17:00:06	xj9	verification
2020-06-06 17:00:12	xj9	however that spelt
2020-06-06 17:01:03	xj9	here's an example log file: https://paste.sunshinegardens.org/%7Exj9/076ca208d1b570358ff82c8308dcb75625e8637f
2020-06-06 17:01:51	xj9	its based on tsv, here's the record format: https://git.sunshinegardens.org/~xj9/bbnet/tree/master/rlog/rlog#L174
2020-06-06 17:02:16	@solderpunk	Kind of like an ultralight ssb?
2020-06-06 17:02:19	xj9	ye
2020-06-06 17:02:29	xj9	with nothing to say about network, just the log format
2020-06-06 17:02:35	@solderpunk	Right.
2020-06-06 17:03:00	@solderpunk	Any exciting applications you have in mind?
2020-06-06 17:04:19	xj9	i tend to gravitate to replicated wikis and discussion forums
2020-06-06 17:04:50	xj9	rlog+bfs is meant to be a general purpose thing though
2020-06-06 17:05:35	xj9	networking generally is secondary, i want to have a really stellar sneakernet workflow
2020-06-06 17:06:30	@solderpunk	Fair enough.
2020-06-06 17:06:44	@solderpunk	Might be a neat thing to build tiny Gemini apps around, though.
2020-06-06 17:07:16	xj9	i think it fits well, simple hackable &c.
2020-06-06 17:08:23	@solderpunk	Yeah, seems like a natural pairing.
2020-06-06 17:08:32	xj9	<3
2020-06-06 17:10:38	@solderpunk	ironzorg: tbh, underwhelming is the perfect use for that space!  Right now you can chain together consecutive ``` lines and put whatever you like after them knowing it will never be displayed by a compliant client.
2020-06-06 17:11:00	@solderpunk	This is an easy way for people to hack in arbitrary extension syntax, which I definitely want to nip in the bud.
2020-06-06 17:11:12	xj9	i'm trying to fit everything into an ESP32 and i think gemini is smol enough for that.
2020-06-06 17:11:23	@solderpunk	Yeah, somebody has already done it!
2020-06-06 17:11:29	xj9	noice
2020-06-06 17:12:09	@solderpunk	It was slow as heck, apparently, but I think they were using large RSA keys.  Might be more feasible with a smarter choice of cert and ciphersuite.
2020-06-06 17:13:21	xj9	i'll need to benchmark rlog on one of these too, currently using ed25519 which *should be* ok
2020-06-06 17:15:12	@solderpunk	I've been wondering whether the Gemini best practices document should suggest clients or servers prefer (or have an option to prefer) ChaCha20 over AES to make RPis and other smol compies happier.
2020-06-06 17:15:26	@solderpunk	Since, again, they seem a kind of natural pairing with Gemini.
2020-06-06 17:19:17	makeworld	They definitely are yeah
2020-06-06 17:19:42	makeworld	I mean there's no harm in suggesting it. Most people won't dive that deep into TLS settings though
2020-06-06 17:19:57	makeworld	It might not even be possible with many libraries
2020-06-06 17:22:09	@solderpunk	I think it should be.
2020-06-06 17:22:33	@solderpunk	I'm loving Go's TLS and general crypto libraries so far, incidentally.
2020-06-06 17:22:44	@solderpunk	Compared to Python's standard ssl module it's an absolute dream.
2020-06-06 17:26:12	makeworld	Yeah it's been great for me too, very simple. The one trip-up for clients is you have to make it insecure and then check stuff manually
2020-06-06 17:26:59	makeworld	Oh this reminds me, I sent you an email about the library I forked, could you add it to the software list?
2020-06-06 17:27:12	@solderpunk	Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot about that.
2020-06-06 17:29:13	@solderpunk	Done
2020-06-06 17:29:58	@solderpunk	Once the spec settles down a bit, I'll have to go through and find stuff in that software list which isn't being maintained, maybe submit patches if I know the language, but eventually remove old cruft.
2020-06-06 17:30:30	@solderpunk	The downside of Gemini being so simple is people discover it, get excited, write and release something over a weekend, then forget about it forever after.
2020-06-06 17:32:12	makeworld	Thanks! And that sounds good
2020-06-06 17:32:23	makeworld	Yeah, I guess it's easy to do that
2020-06-06 17:32:53	makeworld	To be honest, I think it might be good to keep them on the list but in a diff section, marked as OLD or something
2020-06-06 17:33:02	@solderpunk	If anybody has good graphics skills and wants to make me extremely happy, I'd love to see a parody of this logo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiling_Sun
2020-06-06 17:33:14	@solderpunk	Where instead of "Nuclear power?" it says "HTTP+HTML+CSS?"
2020-06-06 17:33:20	makeworld	Oh also I have to ask: What client(s) do you use?
2020-06-06 17:33:49	@solderpunk	And instead of the smiling sun it has the orange Gemini capsule from here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Gemini_12_insignia.png
2020-06-06 17:34:01	makeworld	Haha that would look great
2020-06-06 17:34:02	@solderpunk	Just AV-98 on the reg.
2020-06-06 17:34:13	makeworld	Nice, that was my guess
2020-06-06 17:34:28	@solderpunk	I have a small crush on McRoss, though.
2020-06-06 17:34:42	makeworld	It does look pretty nice yeah
2020-06-06 17:34:50	@solderpunk	The author and I exchanged a few emails, I hope they keep developing it.
2020-06-06 17:34:56	makeworld	Geminaut still wins imo *sigh*
2020-06-06 17:34:59	makeworld	Oh nice
2020-06-06 17:35:27	@solderpunk	Tkinter GUIs make me nostalgic for my early Python hacking days.
2020-06-06 17:35:45	@solderpunk	Yeah, Geminaut is like the first time I've been jealous of Windows-only software in I don't know how long.
2020-06-06 17:36:03	xq	what's the cool thing about geminaut? :D
2020-06-06 17:36:14	xq	so i can provide us linux dudes with the same features in kristall!
2020-06-06 17:36:33	@solderpunk	I think you are already mostly there with the per-site scheming stuff.
2020-06-06 17:36:43	@solderpunk	But I also like that it does TOC generation.
2020-06-06 17:36:43	makeworld	The styling and interface are really attractive. The site text is inset and has large margins around it. It looks fresh and modern
2020-06-06 17:36:49	makeworld	But not like Electron
2020-06-06 17:37:15	makeworld	You doing the same for Linux would be great!
2020-06-06 17:38:30	makeworld	The margins are important I think. So the text is away from other things and stands out
2020-06-06 17:39:33	@solderpunk	I was also really impressed at the heuristics GemiNaut uses to figure out when to apply a differnet scheme, so that different users at tildes don't all end up with the same theme.
2020-06-06 17:39:56	@solderpunk	It recognises, IIRC, ~username and users/username in URLs.
2020-06-06 17:41:24	xq	oh, neat
2020-06-06 17:41:31	makeworld	There's different themes per page?
2020-06-06 17:41:34	xq	that's an idea i can incorporate
2020-06-06 17:41:42	makeworld	I thought it was just the icon thing
2020-06-06 17:41:55	@solderpunk	No, it changes the colour of the background too, if I understand rightly.
2020-06-06 17:42:07	makeworld	Huh
2020-06-06 17:42:27	xq	solderpunk: i have (broken) outline generation as well
2020-06-06 17:42:35	xq	it's on the todo for today to make Kristall usable
2020-06-06 17:42:52	makeworld	Sounds good :)
2020-06-06 17:43:02	@solderpunk	In general I am just really excited that, instead of complaining about how text/gemini doesn't support various fancy features, somebody has taken full advantage of the fact that styling is up to the client to make Gemini content look good and to clearly provide important information to the user.
2020-06-06 17:43:32	makeworld	Yeah it's a pretty cool reversal of the web paradigm
2020-06-06 17:43:38	makeworld	A future post?
2020-06-06 17:44:14	xq	yeah i love client themeing too
2020-06-06 17:44:24	⚡	xq has always a userstyle plugin in his browsers
2020-06-06 17:44:52	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 17:47:43	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk: I could probably pull that off in inkscape
2020-06-06 17:48:56	makeworld	You might have to trace some stuff but having an SVG would be worth it
2020-06-06 17:49:29	@solderpunk	I mean, no pressure at all.  I just thought it would be super cool and failed miserable at my brief attempt to do it myself with Gimp.
2020-06-06 17:49:41	@solderpunk	*miserably
2020-06-06 17:49:59	~tiwesdaeg	you can convert png to svg
2020-06-06 17:50:11	~tiwesdaeg	and there may be an svg on wikipedia of that gemini logo
2020-06-06 17:50:20	@solderpunk	I think there is, actually.
2020-06-06 17:50:40	makeworld	Not reliably though, like it's just a best effort tracing algo isn't it?
2020-06-06 17:50:42	~tiwesdaeg	this is an inkscape job all the way
2020-06-06 17:50:52	~tiwesdaeg	I would hate to try it in gimp
2020-06-06 17:51:09	@solderpunk	I did hate trying it :p
2020-06-06 17:51:10	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: I've done it before, I just always have to find a guide for it
2020-06-06 17:51:28	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-06-06 17:51:49	~tiwesdaeg	first thing is, let's see if I can compile kristall on openbsd
2020-06-06 17:53:21	@solderpunk	Oh, actually, it should definitely have
2020-06-06 17:53:31	@solderpunk	"+JS?" in the top, too.
2020-06-06 17:53:48	makeworld	That's pretty long haha
2020-06-06 17:53:50	~tiwesdaeg	so needy!
2020-06-06 17:54:22	@solderpunk	Haha
2020-06-06 17:54:26	~tiwesdaeg	I wonder what that font is on the smiling sun logo
2020-06-06 17:54:34	@solderpunk	No idea.
2020-06-06 17:54:39	makeworld	Looks very generic
2020-06-06 17:54:42	@solderpunk	I guess if they don't all fit, JS is more evil than CSS.
2020-06-06 17:54:55	@solderpunk	Anyway, I gotta run folks, but nice chatting with you all!
2020-06-06 17:55:00	@solderpunk	I shall return to the mailing list tomorrow.
2020-06-06 17:55:05	~tiwesdaeg	they can all fit, you just may end up with a smaller font
2020-06-06 17:55:05	@solderpunk	And try to pop in here from time to time, too.
2020-06-06 17:55:07	makeworld	See you! Happy to hear it
2020-06-06 17:55:19	~tiwesdaeg	I'll work on the logo in a bit
2020-06-06 17:55:27	@solderpunk	Definitely no rush!
2020-06-06 17:55:29	~tiwesdaeg	have a good one!
2020-06-06 17:55:35	@solderpunk	Cheers, you too.
2020-06-06 17:55:37		solderpunk has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-06 17:55:56	makeworld	"~luke"?
2020-06-06 17:56:03	makeworld	o.O
2020-06-06 18:00:00	lukee	Hi folks - just joined again - my ears were burning ;)
2020-06-06 18:01:29	~tiwesdaeg	heya
2020-06-06 18:02:09	~tiwesdaeg	xq: some weird issues on openbsd
2020-06-06 18:02:36	xq	:(
2020-06-06 18:02:39	xq	can you tell me more?
2020-06-06 18:03:53	~tiwesdaeg	qmake is reporting ld.so: rcc: can't load library 'libzstd.so.3.1'
2020-06-06 18:04:06	~tiwesdaeg	I've got libzstd.so.3.2
2020-06-06 18:04:06	lukee	to catch up on a couple of earlier comments, yes GemiNaut does site specific themes. It tries to work out the most likely site based on the URL
2020-06-06 18:04:47	lukee	At the moment if there is a /~foo or /users/foo in the URL, that is taken as the site base for the URL
2020-06-06 18:04:48	~tiwesdaeg	I just sort of created a symbolic link to it ad qmake was happy
2020-06-06 18:05:16		liberius has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-06 18:05:17	~tiwesdaeg	then I get this when I run gmake: cc1plus: error: unrecognized command line option "-std=gnu++1z"
2020-06-06 18:05:30	xq	oh
2020-06-06 18:05:32	xq	ouh
2020-06-06 18:05:33	lukee	otherwise it is the domain. Mostly this works. To be more precise would require the page itself to inform where "home" is
2020-06-06 18:05:39	xq	what's the GCC/CXX version?
2020-06-06 18:06:08	~tiwesdaeg	gcc version 4.2.1 20070719
2020-06-06 18:07:00	xq	oh
2020-06-06 18:07:02	xq	crap
2020-06-06 18:07:02	xq	:D
2020-06-06 18:07:04	~tiwesdaeg	hehe
2020-06-06 18:07:15	xq	that's a bit … outdated :D
2020-06-06 18:07:29	~tiwesdaeg	cc -v gives me OpenBSD clang version 8.0.1 (tags/RELEASE_801/final) (based on LLVM 8.0.1)
2020-06-06 18:07:41	xq	you can probably use clang
2020-06-06 18:07:42	xq	then
2020-06-06 18:07:42	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, opebsd and gnu aren't the best of friends
2020-06-06 18:08:21	xq	hm, i'm using some C++17 fans
2020-06-06 18:08:33	xq	should be available in clang8 tho
2020-06-06 18:09:42	~tiwesdaeg	well, when I run make instead of gmake, I get ../browsertab.cpp:152:5: error: division by zero in preprocessor expression
2020-06-06 18:10:13	xq	can you link me the line?
2020-06-06 18:10:24	xq	i think i had the same problem on windows
2020-06-06 18:11:26	~tiwesdaeg	the line in the code?
2020-06-06 18:11:59	~tiwesdaeg	or or the compilation line
2020-06-06 18:12:29	xq	i think i can fix it
2020-06-06 18:12:47	xq	can you pull and retry?
2020-06-06 18:13:00	~tiwesdaeg	k
2020-06-06 18:14:55	~tiwesdaeg	that fixed the error
2020-06-06 18:15:07	~tiwesdaeg	now we hit something else
2020-06-06 18:15:15	xq	okay, good
2020-06-06 18:15:21	xq	can you just send me the compiler error?
2020-06-06 18:15:40	~tiwesdaeg	hold on
2020-06-06 18:16:07	~tiwesdaeg	it's something to do with markdown and qt
2020-06-06 18:16:19	~tiwesdaeg	not specifically a code error
2020-06-06 18:16:41	xq	hm
2020-06-06 18:16:57	~tiwesdaeg	it's on my end is my guess
2020-06-06 18:17:02	xq	kindaish?
2020-06-06 18:17:46	~tiwesdaeg	error: no member named 'MarkdownText' in namespace 'Qt'
2020-06-06 18:18:11	xq	damn.
2020-06-06 18:18:19	xq	i can fix this as well :D
2020-06-06 18:18:55	~tiwesdaeg	I think it's a clang thing
2020-06-06 18:19:39	xq	nah
2020-06-06 18:19:41	xq	it's a Qt thing
2020-06-06 18:19:46	xq	you can compile Qt with different modules
2020-06-06 18:19:50	xq	and you don't have the markdown module
2020-06-06 18:19:54	xq	and … i don't use that D
2020-06-06 18:20:12	xq	pull; recompile
2020-06-06 18:20:17	xq	may another error strike us
2020-06-06 18:20:24	~tiwesdaeg	https://ctxt.io/2/AADAtkpdEg
2020-06-06 18:21:11	xq	have you rerun qmake?
2020-06-06 18:23:29	~tiwesdaeg	it build
2020-06-06 18:23:34	~tiwesdaeg	built
2020-06-06 18:24:03	~tiwesdaeg	I'm getting a black on black theme currently
2020-06-06 18:24:11	~tiwesdaeg	I can only see the text if I highlight it
2020-06-06 18:24:14	xq	that's a weird theme :D
2020-06-06 18:25:21	~tiwesdaeg	when I pull up your theme configuration window
2020-06-06 18:25:39	~tiwesdaeg	almost ever text box is black/black and the preview
2020-06-06 18:26:14	~tiwesdaeg	also, it's yelling at me if I don't enter gemini:// before a domain
2020-06-06 18:26:36	~tiwesdaeg	Unsupported uri scheme:
2020-06-06 18:26:42	~tiwesdaeg	I'm breaking things left and right
2020-06-06 18:26:51	xq	ooooooh
2020-06-06 18:26:55	xq	*laughing*
2020-06-06 18:26:58	xq	oOOOOH
2020-06-06 18:27:00	xq	yeah, true
2020-06-06 18:27:05	xq	thaaaat's the default theme now
2020-06-06 18:27:08	xq	black on black
2020-06-06 18:27:09	xq	:D
2020-06-06 18:27:36	xq	just switch to "auto theme" with dark mode or something
2020-06-06 18:28:06	xq	and yeah, the url bar is a bit … picky
2020-06-06 18:28:13	xq	it's on the todo list now!
2020-06-06 18:30:04	~tiwesdaeg	there we go
2020-06-06 18:30:19	~tiwesdaeg	the text boxes are still all black ;P
2020-06-06 18:30:22	xq	current feature on the workbench: navigation history
2020-06-06 18:31:51	~tiwesdaeg	anyway, besides all the stuff we fixed, there is still the weird issue with libzstd
2020-06-06 18:33:35	xq	hm?
2020-06-06 18:39:24	@tomasino	and i have returned
2020-06-06 18:39:26	makeworld	if !strings.Contains(u, "://") && !strings.HasPrefix(u, "//") {
2020-06-06 18:39:26	makeworld			parsed, err = url.Parse("gemini://" + u)
2020-06-06 18:39:27	@tomasino	what's up, my people
2020-06-06 18:39:32	makeworld	Heyo
2020-06-06 18:39:36	@tomasino	hiya
2020-06-06 18:40:02	kensanata	Converting my chaotic neutral wiki text to semi-lawful gemini format.
2020-06-06 18:40:08	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-06 18:40:14	@tomasino	fantastic
2020-06-06 18:40:30	kensanata	Basically just looking at the last few blog post and checking whether anything seems super off.
2020-06-06 18:40:31	kensanata	of
2020-06-06 18:40:33	makeworld	kensanata: Are you alex?
2020-06-06 18:40:44	kensanata	Yeah
2020-06-06 18:40:48	makeworld	Oh haha
2020-06-06 18:40:59	makeworld	You're the one who's been flooding Gemini with markdown ;)
2020-06-06 18:41:08	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-06 18:41:23	kensanata	The problem seems to be that I have such a huge ass site...
2020-06-06 18:41:32	makeworld	As of right now, there are more md documents than gmi on Gemini rn, all because of you lolol
2020-06-06 18:41:39	kensanata	Haha
2020-06-06 18:41:40	~tiwesdaeg	I might have a markdown file or two in gemini space
2020-06-06 18:41:44	makeworld	It's nearly a 2:1 ratio in fact
2020-06-06 18:42:01	kensanata	Step 1 for AV-98 was to define a text/markdown handler of mdcat. :)
2020-06-06 18:42:19	makeworld	If I can plug my own stuff for a sec, I wrote a markdown to gemini converter if that helps you
2020-06-06 18:42:25	kensanata	But yeah, this should all change as the crawlers go through it all again.
2020-06-06 18:42:51	kensanata	makeworld: The problem is that I have acreted markup rules for 17 years, more or less.
2020-06-06 18:43:12	makeworld	Oh so it's not really markdown?
2020-06-06 18:43:19	kensanata	I've been through UseMod, Wiki Creole, bbCode, raw HTML, stuff I liked I couldn't find elsewhere, my own Markdown parser...
2020-06-06 18:43:25	makeworld	Like it's a wiki syntax?
2020-06-06 18:43:44	makeworld	If you know what's what you could convert to markdown using pandoc and then use my tool maybe
2020-06-06 18:43:47	kensanata	Well, I use Oddmuse, which allows you to write your own markup rules... so...
2020-06-06 18:43:52	makeworld	....
2020-06-06 18:43:53	kensanata	it's... uh... chaotic!
2020-06-06 18:43:56	makeworld	Haha
2020-06-06 18:44:43	kensanata	Yeah, there's no out of the box solution, I'm afraid. It's just that I recently started using more basic Markdown formatting so treating it as Markdown is pretty good.
2020-06-06 18:45:01	kensanata	But then all the links point to the web side of the site.
2020-06-06 18:45:12	kensanata	So now I'm trying to be a better Geminonaut.
2020-06-06 18:45:21	makeworld	Well the tool is https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/md2gemini if that helps. You'll have to do some sed for linking
2020-06-06 18:45:34	kensanata	Thanks.
2020-06-06 18:46:38	kensanata	I wonder where the page with all the clients, servers and tools went. I need to bookmark that.
2020-06-06 18:48:37	xq	tiwesdaeg: i would like to do another run
2020-06-06 18:48:46	xq	can you delete the folder ~/.config/xqTechnologies ?
2020-06-06 18:48:54	~tiwesdaeg	sure
2020-06-06 18:48:59	~tiwesdaeg	then rebuild?
2020-06-06 18:49:02	xq	not yet
2020-06-06 18:49:44	xq	i'll have to do some minor changes to do
2020-06-06 18:49:49	xq	and design some better default theme
2020-06-06 18:51:18	~tiwesdaeg	black on black is pretty metal though
2020-06-06 18:51:25	xq	haha
2020-06-06 18:51:28	xq	tilde.black approves
2020-06-06 18:51:35	⚡	tomasino nods
2020-06-06 18:58:04	xq	tiwesdaeg: go!
2020-06-06 18:58:28	kensanata	🤘
2020-06-06 18:58:44	~tiwesdaeg	k
2020-06-06 18:58:47	xq	new features: sane default theme, page margins are settable, history works
2020-06-06 18:59:05	xq	way too many settings settings now on the style tab!
2020-06-06 19:01:31	~tiwesdaeg	look at those arrows go!
2020-06-06 19:01:46	~tiwesdaeg	much less metal now, but very readable
2020-06-06 19:02:18	xq	hrhr
2020-06-06 19:02:22	xq	"./kristall --metal"
2020-06-06 19:02:42	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure if it's my wm, but when the settings window is open, I can't move my mouse outside of it
2020-06-06 19:02:52	~tiwesdaeg	it pops back to the center
2020-06-06 19:03:32	xq	hm, weird
2020-06-06 19:04:37	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using cwm
2020-06-06 19:06:28	kensanata	I must say I like how my blog looks as Gemini site. I was afraid that those line-links would annoy my, but it's very readable!
2020-06-06 19:06:46	kensanata	I wonder whether my writing habits will change as a result.
2020-06-06 19:07:27	kensanata	makeworld: Now I feel the urge to add support for Gemini links to my wiki markup parser and then... It'll even more weird! Yikes.
2020-06-06 19:07:47	makeworld	Haha
2020-06-06 19:09:07	xq	makeworld: wanna do another test of Kristall?
2020-06-06 19:09:34	makeworld	I can't right now sorry
2020-06-06 19:09:55	makeworld	Or did you meant to @ someone else? I haven't done a first one lol
2020-06-06 19:10:57	~tiwesdaeg	there we go, got a nice dracula theme going
2020-06-06 19:11:50	~tiwesdaeg	xq: theming for the info panes?
2020-06-06 19:12:22	~tiwesdaeg	the dark background looks very contrasty with the white panes on either side
2020-06-06 19:12:45	xq	tiwesdaeg: oh, yeah have to look up how to theme Qt :D
2020-06-06 19:12:50	xq	would only provide a dark/light theme
2020-06-06 19:13:02	xq	and: can you show me your color theme? i'd like to provide some presets
2020-06-06 19:13:21	~tiwesdaeg	it's gone
2020-06-06 19:13:25	~tiwesdaeg	does it save on exit?
2020-06-06 19:13:52	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 19:13:57	~tiwesdaeg	I clicked a drop down arrow on the left menu section and the program crashed
2020-06-06 19:14:07	~tiwesdaeg	well, that's what happened
2020-06-06 19:14:23	~tiwesdaeg	it came back with the default theme
2020-06-06 19:15:24	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I can replicate the crash
2020-06-06 19:15:41	xq	huh
2020-06-06 19:15:45	xq	where exactly?
2020-06-06 19:15:46	~tiwesdaeg	go to the specification.gmi
2020-06-06 19:16:01	~tiwesdaeg	that solderpunk just created
2020-06-06 19:16:02	kensanata	Is there something like a central list of Gemini sites, including their updates?
2020-06-06 19:16:29	~tiwesdaeg	click the drop down arrow next to Project Gemini
2020-06-06 19:16:48	~tiwesdaeg	kensanata: gus keeps track of all indexed servers and has a list
2020-06-06 19:16:55	xq	thanks!
2020-06-06 19:16:59	xq	got a repro
2020-06-06 19:17:26	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: Thanks!
2020-06-06 19:17:27	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk said he would stop updating his list on gemini.circumlunar.space after the first 50 or something
2020-06-06 19:17:30	~tiwesdaeg	np
2020-06-06 19:17:52	~tiwesdaeg	the the GUS list seems to be in random order and changes order regularly
2020-06-06 19:19:02	kensanata	Well, 76 is a start. :)
2020-06-06 19:21:11	xq	tiwesdaeg: gonna fix that bug now
2020-06-06 19:21:18	xq	it's going to be awesome!
2020-06-06 19:21:20	kensanata	Holy cow the first one I tried is freedombone and the second one is astrobotany. This is great!
2020-06-06 19:22:14	kensanata	I wonder whether elpher can do client certificates. Probably doable with some weird extraplanar Emacs wizardry.
2020-06-06 19:26:34	xq	oh, beginner mistake
2020-06-06 19:29:50	ironzorg	tiwesdaeg: what if servers (voluntarily) announced themselves to a masterserver, similarly to how video game servers do it, to help with discoverability of the network?
2020-06-06 19:31:10	ironzorg	it's not scalable, but it could help, at the beginning, instead of having somebody update a list manually
2020-06-06 19:31:53	~tiwesdaeg	sounds kind of centralized
2020-06-06 19:32:30	ironzorg	there's only one list of 50 known servers as well ;)
2020-06-06 19:32:54	ironzorg	and it can be hard capped as well, and dropped once there are several hundred of servers
2020-06-06 19:33:03	ironzorg	just a random thought
2020-06-06 19:34:44	~tiwesdaeg	There's no official list of webservers either
2020-06-06 19:34:54	xq	tiwesdaeg: but did i understand correct? Kristall supports OpenBSD as well?
2020-06-06 19:35:18	~tiwesdaeg	you kind find stuff via search indexers and by discovering them through clicking links
2020-06-06 19:35:49	~tiwesdaeg	xq: yes, all this kristall drama for the past hour and a half has been on openbsd
2020-06-06 19:36:27	~tiwesdaeg	the only thing I ran in to that I don't think is a code issue is the one library problem
2020-06-06 19:37:06	~tiwesdaeg	quoting myself: qmake is reporting ld.so: rcc: can't load library 'libzstd.so.3.1'
2020-06-06 19:37:06	xq	okay, do you know how to solve that except for "have yourself a symlink?"
2020-06-06 19:38:14	~tiwesdaeg	I ran 'ln -s /usr/local/lib/libzstd.so.3.2 /usr/local/lib/libzstd.so.3.1'
2020-06-06 19:38:22	~tiwesdaeg	and that made it happy
2020-06-06 19:38:40	~tiwesdaeg	no idea why it was trying to link to the slightly older version
2020-06-06 19:40:51	~tiwesdaeg	I would say if you were adding instructions, ensure openbsd users run make and not gmake
2020-06-06 19:41:17	~tiwesdaeg	gmake on netbsd must be using a newer gcc/g++
2020-06-06 19:44:47	makeworld	ironzorg: That already happens with GUS
2020-06-06 19:44:57	makeworld	You can add your URL to gus.guru and it displays a list of servers
2020-06-06 19:45:06	makeworld	I've added people's servers there before
2020-06-06 19:50:45	makeworld	Man, tabs are more work than I thought
2020-06-06 19:50:58	makeworld	And that's before I've even ran the code
2020-06-06 20:01:29	kensanata	If Emacs taught me anything it's that tabs don't scale. I also don't listen to browser users that suffer from tabitis, which is the mental health issue of being unable to close tabs.
2020-06-06 20:01:41	kensanata	I always close my Emacs buffers, of course.
2020-06-06 20:04:29	@tomasino	Buffers ftw
2020-06-06 20:05:05	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-06 20:05:06	@tomasino	But, you know... in vim
2020-06-06 20:05:29	makeworld	I have 11 tabs open right now, which is about as high as it gets for me
2020-06-06 20:05:41	makeworld	I don't expect to use tabs much for Gemini, but I thought it would be a cool feature
2020-06-06 20:07:05	@tomasino	I'm kinda curious about creating a Gemini stream
2020-06-06 20:08:08	@tomasino	Since parsing can happen line by line it should be possible, but I'm not coming up with a good but of perpetual content
2020-06-06 20:09:03	@tomasino	How would your clients deal with that?
2020-06-06 20:09:05	dkibi	got some cgi to work: gemini://otrn.org/test/labyrinth.py
2020-06-06 20:26:56	lukee	I'm playing with cgi too
2020-06-06 20:27:18	lukee	here is my first script that requires user input - an arbitrary calculator
2020-06-06 20:27:20	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/calc.cgi?0
2020-06-06 20:27:52	lukee	can anyone test that works with their client?
2020-06-06 20:28:06	companion_cube	cgi, as in common gateway interface?
2020-06-06 20:28:31	lukee	yes old school cgi - not computer graphics
2020-06-06 20:29:27	companion_cube	so that's a new feature of gemini?
2020-06-06 20:29:39	companion_cube	(or of some server thereof?)
2020-06-06 20:29:51	lukee	not really its just implemented by some of the servers
2020-06-06 20:31:22	companion_cube	semi relatedly, yesterday I read something about systemd being able to replace inetd :D
2020-06-06 20:31:39	companion_cube	you can write a program that does stdin/stdout, and use systemd to wire it on the network
2020-06-06 20:32:31	lukee	I have no idea how to do that, my linux skills are pretty rudimentary
2020-06-06 20:34:04	lukee	@dkibi: will you implement some navigation commands through those mazes?
2020-06-06 20:34:54	companion_cube	https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/end-road-systemds-socket-units/ this explains it nicely, really
2020-06-06 20:34:56	companion_cube	systemd is neat
2020-06-06 20:37:08	lukee	that would make a nice gemnini blog post if you can get that working
2020-06-06 20:37:17	kensanata	tomasino: Parsing on the go is rare these days. Most people expect to load complete documents before beginning to parse. But it should be no problem, really.
2020-06-06 20:47:25	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 20:50:51		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-06 21:33:59	makeworld	Yeah, at the moment my client just loads the whole file into memory, which isn't great
2020-06-06 21:34:19	makeworld	In 99% of cases it'll be fine, but I should handle that edge case of a 1 GB gemini file
2020-06-06 21:41:37	companion_cube	is the author of bombadillo here?
2020-06-06 21:41:58	companion_cube	it's a bit rough to only have vim bindings 😅
2020-06-06 21:43:59	kensanata	I guess I have come full circle, now. My Gemini client ate my post.
2020-06-06 21:44:44	xq	hmm
2020-06-06 21:44:54	xq	thinking about adding https and http support to Kristall as well
2020-06-06 21:46:32	@tomasino	ate your post?
2020-06-06 21:46:38	@tomasino	mangled the file or something?
2020-06-06 21:55:42	kensanata	tomasino: I'm trying to use my Gemini client as the editor for new blog posts.
2020-06-06 21:56:15	kensanata	tomasino: And of course, everything is full of bugs. My server, the patch for the client, and so on.
2020-06-06 21:56:49		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-06 21:59:13	makeworld	companion_cube: Working on that ;)
2020-06-06 21:59:26	companion_cube	arrows!! :p
2020-06-06 21:59:48	kensanata	I was hoping to hear you say: Emacs bindings!!
2020-06-06 21:59:52	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 22:00:13	kensanata	Then again, why wouldn't you be using Emacs in the first place? 🤔
2020-06-06 22:00:33	companion_cube	I do use vim, but without j/k :p
2020-06-06 22:00:50	kensanata	j/k is basically the only vim binding I know!
2020-06-06 22:01:05	kensanata	I get to use it a lot in aerc, the new mail client I'm trying to get used to.
2020-06-06 22:01:46	kensanata	I even added it to the Javascript for https://campaignwiki.org/rpg so I can quickly skip back and forth from post to post. j/k is the best binding!
2020-06-06 22:01:53	kensanata	And I don't even use vim.
2020-06-06 22:08:06	makeworld	companion_cube: Arrows, yes :)
2020-06-06 22:22:39	lick	vim is cool
2020-06-06 22:26:47	xq	hmm
2020-06-06 22:26:54	xq	some of you are also using gopher, right?
2020-06-06 22:26:59	@tomasino	oh yes
2020-06-06 22:27:01	@tomasino	gopher is life
2020-06-06 22:27:12	xq	do i see it right that gopher has basically two modes of operation
2020-06-06 22:27:18	xq	one is "serve a full file"
2020-06-06 22:27:25	xq	and the other is "serve a directory listing"
2020-06-06 22:27:25	xq	?
2020-06-06 22:27:39	@tomasino	sounds like you're thinking about two of the most common item types
2020-06-06 22:27:42	@tomasino	type 0 is plain text
2020-06-06 22:27:55	@tomasino	type 1 is a "gophermap" which describes links
2020-06-06 22:28:05	@tomasino	there are others, including sound, telnet, binary, search, etc
2020-06-06 22:28:11	xq	i'm just skipping through wikipedia and get to know the protocol
2020-06-06 22:28:19	@tomasino	https://gopher.zone
2020-06-06 22:28:28	xq	my experiment atm as `echo / | nc gopher.quux.org 70`
2020-06-06 22:28:28	xq	:D
2020-06-06 22:28:31	@tomasino	you can use this collection of getting started stuff too
2020-06-06 22:28:48		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-06 22:28:49	@tomasino	i run gopher://gopher.black
2020-06-06 22:28:53	xq	thanks for the link :)
2020-06-06 22:29:07	@tomasino	we have a #gopher channel on here if you want any help with anything
2020-06-06 22:29:12	xq	hehe, nice
2020-06-06 22:30:37	xq	my plan right now is to also add gopher support to Kristall because … why not?! :D
2020-06-06 22:30:47	xq	maybe later even FTP browsing or something
2020-06-06 22:30:57	@tomasino	absolutely
2020-06-06 22:31:04	@tomasino	small-internet protocol support FTW
2020-06-06 22:31:10	@tomasino	toss finger in there too while you're at it
2020-06-06 22:31:18	@tomasino	it's just as simple
2020-06-06 22:31:22	xq	what's finger exactly?
2020-06-06 22:31:28	xq	wikipedia isn't that … expressive
2020-06-06 22:31:56	@tomasino	do you have tilde account on any of the tildes?
2020-06-06 22:31:59	@tomasino	i can demonstrate
2020-06-06 22:32:02	xq	nope, not yet
2020-06-06 22:32:10	@tomasino	or if you have finger installed, $ finger tomasino@cosmic.voyage
2020-06-06 22:32:29	@tomasino	originally it was used to poke at users on systems to see what they were up to and where their office was on campus
2020-06-06 22:32:36	@tomasino	later it got abused and abandonded
2020-06-06 22:32:48	@tomasino	now it's being resurrected and turned into little silly art things
2020-06-06 22:33:08	@tomasino	efingerd is a popular finger daemon that just passes the requests to a script for you. You can respond with whatever you want
2020-06-06 22:33:25	@tomasino	finger ping@cosmic.voyage and it'll respond to you with a reverse ping from that server toward your IP
2020-06-06 22:33:38	@tomasino	castor has support built in, if you have that installed
2020-06-06 22:33:59	@tomasino	finger://tomasino@cosmic.voyage
2020-06-06 22:35:02	xq	lol
2020-06-06 22:35:03	xq	killed castor :D
2020-06-06 22:36:00	@tomasino	haha, really?
2020-06-06 22:36:02	xq	yeah
2020-06-06 22:36:05	xq	with ping@ … :D
2020-06-06 22:36:15	xq	finger is a "protocol", huh? :D
2020-06-06 22:36:20	@tomasino	yep!
2020-06-06 22:36:27	@tomasino	port 79, if memory serves
2020-06-06 22:36:30	xq	just send the name followed by CR to the server and get a response :D
2020-06-06 22:36:38	@tomasino	it's so damn simple it's criminal
2020-06-06 22:36:45	xq	yep :D
2020-06-06 22:36:45	@julienxx	Port 79 is the best
2020-06-06 22:36:48	@tomasino	and a blank name is great too
2020-06-06 22:36:53	@tomasino	finger @cosmic.voyage
2020-06-06 22:37:05	xq	julienxx: bug report. finger://ping@cosmic.voyage kills castor :D
2020-06-06 22:37:26	@julienxx	:)
2020-06-06 22:37:33	@tomasino	it returns for me without killing castor... just takes a few seconds
2020-06-06 22:37:55	xq	but hey, thanks for the input
2020-06-06 22:38:01	xq	let's do gopher and finger as well in Kristall!
2020-06-06 22:38:30	@tomasino	most of the tildes have finger support running, so you should have lots of stuff to test
2020-06-06 22:39:00	xq	neat
2020-06-06 22:39:28	xq	can you tell me how i know what type of resource gopher is outputting?
2020-06-06 22:39:36	xq	or do i just have to assume the first link is a directory? :D
2020-06-06 22:40:37	@tomasino	the root is type 1 by default
2020-06-06 22:40:52	xq	okay
2020-06-06 22:40:56	@tomasino	but as a client, you just use the type in the request
2020-06-06 22:41:00	@tomasino	the server won't tell you
2020-06-06 22:41:24	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/about vs gopher://gopher.black/0/about
2020-06-06 22:43:37	@tomasino	open both of those links in a gopher client and compare, then curl them both
2020-06-06 22:43:53	@tomasino	you'll see curl responds the same. the client's on the hook to use the type to know what to do
2020-06-06 22:45:24		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-06 22:48:26	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-06 22:53:24	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I'm back at home, so I am going to try all your changes on netbsd now
2020-06-06 22:54:00	xq	oh yeah :D
2020-06-06 22:54:08	xq	if you give me 20 minutes, you get the full package
2020-06-06 22:54:21	xq	which is probably worthy a first release
2020-06-06 22:59:59	~tiwesdaeg	you put it all in src I noticed
2020-06-06 23:00:02	~tiwesdaeg	I like the icon
2020-06-06 23:00:30	xq	thanks! :)
2020-06-06 23:00:41	xq	i've never seen the icon except for my editor and about dialog :D
2020-06-06 23:00:53	~tiwesdaeg	I'm totally a big fan of using gem symbols for gemini
2020-06-06 23:00:58	⚡	tiwesdaeg points at the topic
2020-06-06 23:01:46	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using tint2 bar, it shows up there
2020-06-06 23:02:58	~tiwesdaeg	let me know when you are done and I'll git pull again
2020-06-06 23:06:14	xq	done!
2020-06-06 23:07:02	xq	new features:
2020-06-06 23:07:05	xq	more works, less bugs
2020-06-06 23:07:16	xq	you have about:favourites as a start page, and can configure the start page
2020-06-06 23:07:22	xq	you can enable http/https support
2020-06-06 23:07:32	xq	and the menu structure is a bit different
2020-06-06 23:09:22	xq	oh: and forward/backward navigation now works
2020-06-06 23:12:59	styan	xq: Hooray for styling!
2020-06-06 23:13:06	xq	\o/
2020-06-06 23:13:11	xq	it now is also saved when you click okay
2020-06-06 23:13:23	xq	also it saves your window layout and configuration
2020-06-06 23:13:40	xq	so if you want to have the outline open, it will remember this and reopen it on the next start
2020-06-06 23:13:56	xq	you can enable/disable support for each protocol individually :)
2020-06-06 23:14:15	styan	Also, because Gemini is awesome, you do not have to worry about fingerprinting!
2020-06-06 23:14:30	xq	hehe
2020-06-06 23:14:40	xq	btw, i also serve http and markdown :D
2020-06-06 23:14:49	xq	but without any secondary requests
2020-06-06 23:14:57	xq	so: no styles, only plain html
2020-06-06 23:15:02	xq	*html, not http *facepalm*
2020-06-06 23:15:09	styan	Serve, or fetch?
2020-06-06 23:15:34	xq	both
2020-06-06 23:15:46	xq	visit gemini://random-projects.net/
2020-06-06 23:15:50	xq	scroll down
2020-06-06 23:16:01	xq	and you can switch between both https *and* html serving :D
2020-06-06 23:17:31	styan	TLS Error: handshake failed on tilde.black
2020-06-06 23:17:59	xq	oh, yeah. i don't ignore those yet :D
2020-06-06 23:18:19	xq	TLS handling is work-in-progress
2020-06-06 23:18:35	~tiwesdaeg	xq: looks fantastic
2020-06-06 23:18:43	xq	thanks! ♥
2020-06-06 23:18:49	~tiwesdaeg	I'll see if I can break it
2020-06-06 23:18:55	xq	please, do!
2020-06-06 23:19:02	xq	more breaking means less breaking
2020-06-06 23:19:24	styan	The build instructions in your README no longer work
2020-06-06 23:19:42	xq	added the ../src/kristall.pro
2020-06-06 23:19:43	xq	 :D
2020-06-06 23:19:56	xq	i had it in mind, didn't changed it. next commit will fix it
2020-06-06 23:20:46	~tiwesdaeg	so you've got BSD and linux support
2020-06-06 23:20:49	styan	Maybe add a stub of a makefile that will run those commands?
2020-06-06 23:20:51	~tiwesdaeg	Haiku next?
2020-06-06 23:20:53	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-06-06 23:21:11	xq	:D
2020-06-06 23:21:21	xq	tiwesdaeg: the fastest browser on earth? :D
2020-06-06 23:21:40	xq	i just noticed that my website is blazingly fast compared to chrome, links or even dillo :D
2020-06-06 23:21:49	xq	styan: good idea, i'll take a look
2020-06-06 23:22:12	~tiwesdaeg	I made that logo for solderpunk
2020-06-06 23:23:00	xq	what logo exactly?
2020-06-06 23:24:07	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Ooh let's see
2020-06-06 23:24:41	~tiwesdaeg	let me upload it
2020-06-06 23:30:12	styan	xq: I checked more thoroughly, your site does not work with LibreSSL's libtls.
2020-06-06 23:30:31	xq	huh, weird
2020-06-06 23:30:36	~tiwesdaeg	https://www.titmouse.org/Gemini-No-Thanks-Bullet.svg.png
2020-06-06 23:30:41	xq	do you have debug output?
2020-06-06 23:30:50	xq	haha nice
2020-06-06 23:31:12	styan	TLS Error: handshake failed: error:14004410:SSL routines:CONNECT_CR_SRVR_HELLO:sslv3 alert handshake failure
2020-06-06 23:31:43	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk wanted a logo made out of two different logos
2020-06-06 23:31:52	xq	i love it
2020-06-06 23:32:22	makeworld	Wow nice! The text rolls around too much though, because of how long the question is
2020-06-06 23:32:28	makeworld	Maybe a smaller font would help?
2020-06-06 23:32:28	~tiwesdaeg	how did you make kristall's logo?
2020-06-06 23:32:44	~tiwesdaeg	it's that last JS
2020-06-06 23:32:51	~tiwesdaeg	he requested I add it at the end
2020-06-06 23:33:02	xq	tiwesdaeg: not my work actually, just "diamond" from materialdesignicons with minor tweaks :D
2020-06-06 23:33:05	xq	via inkscape
2020-06-06 23:33:21	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, inkscape is great
2020-06-06 23:33:36	~tiwesdaeg	I copied that gemini portion by hand
2020-06-06 23:34:04	~tiwesdaeg	it looked like crap converting the original png to vector
2020-06-06 23:34:41	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: I was trying to keep tot he original No Thanks logo when it came to the font
2020-06-06 23:34:46	~tiwesdaeg	https://www.titmouse.org/Gemini-No-Thanks-Space.svg.png
2020-06-06 23:34:54	~tiwesdaeg	here is is slightly tighter
2020-06-06 23:35:00	~tiwesdaeg	with no bullets
2020-06-06 23:35:15	makeworld	Yeah, it's just very round I guess. It's still nice just hard to read
2020-06-06 23:35:24	~tiwesdaeg	when the font is smaller, there is so much open space since the gemini logo is fairly narrow
2020-06-06 23:36:11	~tiwesdaeg	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiling_Sun#/media/File:Smiling_Sun_English_Language.svg
2020-06-06 23:37:00	~tiwesdaeg	I could decrease the spacing between characters even more on the top letters
2020-06-06 23:38:13	xq	can't you just make the font a tad thinner?
2020-06-06 23:38:20	xq	i liked the first one with the dots more
2020-06-06 23:38:40	~tiwesdaeg	that's the not bold version
2020-06-06 23:39:05	~tiwesdaeg	you can set character spacing in inkscape
2020-06-06 23:39:08	xq	note that you can convert font to path in inkscape
2020-06-06 23:39:13	xq	and then fiddle around however you want!
2020-06-06 23:39:25	xq	(it also makes the file platform independant)
2020-06-06 23:39:48	~tiwesdaeg	that's what I did ;P
2020-06-06 23:40:09	~tiwesdaeg	the only way I know to make fonts go round and round
2020-06-06 23:43:18	xq	so, i think i'll call it a night
2020-06-06 23:43:41	xq	let's just write a small announcement mail that Kristall is now at least in a usable state and will replace castor as my primary gemini browser :)
2020-06-06 23:45:17	makeworld	Where's the source?
2020-06-06 23:45:22	makeworld	I'm excited to try it
2020-06-06 23:45:34	makeworld	xq
2020-06-06 23:46:01	xq	gemini://random-projects.net/blog/2020-06-07-kristall.gemini
2020-06-06 23:49:04	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I'll get you a screenshot of the dracula theme when I get a chance
2020-06-06 23:49:12	~tiwesdaeg	I have to set it up on this computer
2020-06-06 23:49:18	xq	yes, please!
2020-06-06 23:49:46	xq	i just added "save/load/share theme presets" to the todo list
2020-06-06 23:52:38	~tiwesdaeg	nice
2020-06-06 23:54:53	styan	xq: https://ttm.sh/Qqv.png :-)
2020-06-06 23:55:05	xq	styan: black. :D
2020-06-06 23:58:44	styan	xq: When using torsocks(1) on kristall QNetworkInterface complains loudly about not being permitted to create an IPv6 socket..
2020-06-06 23:59:23	xq	hm
2020-06-06 23:59:23	~tiwesdaeg	xq: https://www.titmouse.org/2020-06-06-185547_1920x1080_scrot.png
2020-06-07 00:00:01	xq	i put that in "bug reports"
2020-06-07 00:00:09	xq	i have no ipv6 here to test *anything* :(
2020-06-07 00:00:21	xq	tiwesdaeg: fabulous!
2020-06-07 00:00:40	xq	btw, the outline can now be used to navigate!
2020-06-07 00:01:02	styan	xq: It still works, it just complains
2020-06-07 00:01:18	xq	hmm :D
2020-06-07 00:04:03	xq	i really like my idea of having cross-scheme links in another color
2020-06-07 00:04:27	xq	but damn, i have to go to bed :D
2020-06-07 00:04:35	xq	happy for more comments tomorrow/later
2020-06-07 00:06:10	styan	xq: In the Makefile, use of `$<' in non-suffix rules is not-portable.  Also, good night!
2020-06-07 00:08:24	lukee	nice screenshots xq!
2020-06-07 00:08:59	~tiwesdaeg	you can even see your icon
2020-06-07 00:10:27	makeworld	Wow that looks great
2020-06-07 00:13:16	makeworld	Wow I'm looking at the README and this is awesome
2020-06-07 00:19:45	makeworld	Great work
2020-06-07 00:20:08	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Can you share your config for that?
2020-06-07 00:23:23	makeworld	xq: No unicode handling?
2020-06-07 00:23:51	makeworld	Emojis aren't displaying for me, I think maybe the font doesn't handle it and it doesn't know to switch to an emoji font
2020-06-07 00:32:33		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 00:40:12	makeworld	Also tiwesdaeg what is up with your Date in that screenshot lol
2020-06-07 00:40:17	makeworld	Is that discordianism?
2020-06-07 00:41:10	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 01:02:17	~tiwesdaeg	it is indeed the discordian date
2020-06-07 01:02:36	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using the classic ddate progam to output that
2020-06-07 01:02:47	~tiwesdaeg	it used to be default in most linux distributions
2020-06-07 01:04:07	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not on that computer right now, but I'll grab the config files when I get a chance
2020-06-07 01:04:37	~tiwesdaeg	I'm on a *gasp* chromebook right now
2020-06-07 01:04:57	~tiwesdaeg	which I am using as a glorified ssh platform
2020-06-07 01:08:21	makeworld	Oh okay, interesting
2020-06-07 01:09:18	~tiwesdaeg	https://github.com/bo0ts/ddate
2020-06-07 01:09:44	~tiwesdaeg	such an orderly calendar system for such a disorderly religion
2020-06-07 01:22:14		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-07 01:35:24	makeworld	I really don't get the Discordianism stuff lol
2020-06-07 01:35:35	makeworld	I've been meaning to look into it properly for a while now
2020-06-07 01:48:08	cmccabe	did someone say fnord?
2020-06-07 02:05:11		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 02:12:28	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 03:03:32	companion_cube	fnord
2020-06-07 04:45:05		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-07 04:45:09	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 06:26:34		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-07 06:27:03	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 06:27:04	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-07 06:49:14		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 07:03:46	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 07:03:47	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-07 07:11:05		notandinus has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-07 07:50:20	xq	hey hey
2020-06-07 07:50:27	xq	<makeworld> xq: No unicode handling?
2020-06-07 07:50:37	@julienxx	good morning
2020-06-07 07:50:49	xq	Qt should actually handly it… But it seems like one have to chose a font that supports unicode…
2020-06-07 07:50:55	xq	i'll have to investigate that further
2020-06-07 08:37:35		anelki has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 09:10:45	epoch	for some reason castor is freezing up on a specific url.
2020-06-07 09:11:01	epoch	looking into how to reproduce it better than just "here's the URL. good luck"
2020-06-07 09:11:18	epoch	strace is showing it sitting on a wait4
2020-06-07 09:11:44	@julienxx	freezing usually means it's waiting for an answer or the answer is big maybe?
2020-06-07 09:12:06	epoch	the answer should be fairly small. it might be that my server is borking
2020-06-07 09:13:06	epoch	it works with openssl s_client
2020-06-07 09:15:05	epoch	it is probably the weird mime-type I'm sending
2020-06-07 09:15:38	@julienxx	ah yes if you mime type is not text/something Castor will try to download content
2020-06-07 09:15:58	epoch	I'm sending application/something
2020-06-07 09:16:08	epoch	but it just sits without redrawing
2020-06-07 09:16:22	epoch	and ctrl+c doesn't stop it, so I ctrl+z and kill %1
2020-06-07 09:16:42	@julienxx	so it will try to download whatever the server returns and use xdg-open to open it. Perhaps the response has no crlf?
2020-06-07 09:16:56	epoch	maybe.
2020-06-07 09:17:01	@julienxx	and it waits indefinitely
2020-06-07 09:17:17	epoch	it might be xdg-open is hanging
2020-06-07 09:17:40	@julienxx	might be too, you should see the response in /tmp
2020-06-07 09:18:21	epoch	named /tmp/.tmp[something]?
2020-06-07 09:18:39	epoch	yep
2020-06-07 09:18:48	epoch	the whole file is written there
2020-06-07 09:19:25	@julienxx	so maybe that's smething I don't handle properly, the case where xdg-open does nothing
2020-06-07 09:20:48	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/appmime
2020-06-07 09:21:39	@julienxx	ah opens Emacs here :)
2020-06-07 09:22:15	epoch	freezes here. guess I have xdg-open problems.
2020-06-07 09:22:35	@julienxx	you might need some kind of catch all handler
2020-06-07 09:22:53	epoch	I'll make the appmime thing able to let you select which mime-type it responds with
2020-06-07 09:22:59	epoch	so you can test any mime-type you want easily. :)
2020-06-07 09:23:07	@julienxx	that's cool!
2020-06-07 09:24:19	epoch	alright, reload to test?
2020-06-07 09:24:36	epoch	I made it do a 10 if there isn't a mime-type in the query string
2020-06-07 09:25:02	epoch	should end up at something like: gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/appmime?text/plain I think
2020-06-07 09:25:25	@julienxx	got a popup
2020-06-07 09:28:41	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 09:28:42	epoch	are path-relative links supposed to work?
2020-06-07 09:29:02	epoch	like => ?a_query_string
2020-06-07 09:29:33	@julienxx	supposedly yes :)
2020-06-07 09:29:47	@julienxx	if you have the domain in your history
2020-06-07 09:30:12	▬▬▶	inst\andinus has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 09:30:42	epoch	well, like, on the page: site.gemini/some_page if it contains a link to ?derp it should probably be expanded to site.gemini/some_page?derp
2020-06-07 09:30:53		inst\andinus has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-07 09:31:14	@julienxx	perhaps query params don't count as a relative url
2020-06-07 09:31:57	epoch	right now in castor it considers it treats it like a link that'd usually start with /
2020-06-07 09:32:02	epoch	derp
2020-06-07 09:32:07	epoch	can't type a sentence
2020-06-07 09:32:26	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/appmime?text/gemini like the two links on this page
2020-06-07 09:33:42	@julienxx	if you hover the links you should see what its parsed like
2020-06-07 09:33:44		anelki has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 09:33:46	@julienxx	first link is working
2020-06-07 09:34:22	@julienxx	both lead me to gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/?text/gemini
2020-06-07 09:34:23	epoch	they're going to /? here.
2020-06-07 09:34:34	epoch	yeah, that's not where I expected them to go
2020-06-07 09:35:19	epoch	I was expecting gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/appmime?text/gemini
2020-06-07 09:38:15	@julienxx	might be because I don't treat ?foo as a relative link, not sure. Does it work with another client?
2020-06-07 09:38:37	epoch	after I get my client working it will.
2020-06-07 09:38:40	epoch	:P
2020-06-07 09:39:15	epoch	#fragment links are another type of relative link
2020-06-07 09:40:39	epoch	my client is two shell scripts atm and they don't wory very well
2020-06-07 09:47:17	epoch	those type of links aren't mentioned in the spec it seems
2020-06-07 09:47:46	epoch	I'm assuming that's how they should be handled based on how those types of links work in web-browsers
2020-06-07 09:52:32	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 09:56:06	epoch	hrm... a // link inside a gemini document being viewed over http...
2020-06-07 09:56:18	@julienxx	epoch: is your server down?
2020-06-07 09:56:27	epoch	? maybe?
2020-06-07 09:56:31	epoch	it is lagging pretty hard
2020-06-07 09:56:50	@julienxx	yeah looks like a timeout
2020-06-07 09:59:51	epoch	should be good now
2020-06-07 10:00:01	epoch	there were a couple processes being hogs
2020-06-07 10:01:02	@julienxx	looks like your relative links work in AV-98
2020-06-07 10:01:59	@julienxx	at least I'm not redirected to another page
2020-06-07 10:02:06	epoch	that's solderpunk's implementation?
2020-06-07 10:02:19	@julienxx	yes https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/AV-98
2020-06-07 10:03:11	epoch	I'll put the mime-type in the content too
2020-06-07 10:03:51	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 10:09:55	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 10:12:47	kensanata	🚀
2020-06-07 10:23:41	@julienxx	epoch: I think the issue might be that your relative links are not relative to the directory but to appmime (which is a page I guess). If I change my code to handle them, Castor does not pass Conman's torture tests anymore.
2020-06-07 10:23:52	⚡	julienxx waves at kensanata
2020-06-07 10:24:31	epoch	hrm... maybe conman's torture tests need to be fixed then
2020-06-07 10:26:12		anelki has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 10:26:32	@julienxx	relative to a file seems weird to me, would it work in html?
2020-06-07 10:28:10	@julienxx	apparently yes
2020-06-07 10:29:02	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 10:43:21		anelki has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 10:45:16	kensanata	What was the question again regarding relative links?
2020-06-07 10:45:44	kensanata	To be sure, in my server code I translated all the relative URLs to absolute URLs just to be safe...
2020-06-07 10:46:33	epoch	I use ?links on my website
2020-06-07 10:47:01	epoch	from pageview.cgi it has a list of pages on the left with links like: ?page=news ?page=derp ?page=etc...
2020-06-07 10:48:43	epoch	here's what I have my client doing atm. https://thebackupbox.net/~epoch/incoming/2020-06-07-054822_1920x1080_scrot.png
2020-06-07 10:48:58	epoch	extra verbose to see the input link and what it gets converted to
2020-06-07 10:49:53	epoch	should I have linked to that over gemini? :P
2020-06-07 10:50:01	⚡	epoch adds home-dir support to server-script
2020-06-07 10:50:35	@tomasino	?link and #link are weird ones 
2020-06-07 10:52:50	epoch	I use them though. :)
2020-06-07 10:52:55	epoch	I have a good example for #links
2020-06-07 10:53:04	epoch	it's in html though
2020-06-07 10:53:41	epoch	https://thebackupbox.net/docs/Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future-Ted_Kaczynski.html
2020-06-07 10:53:47	@tomasino	document fragment links in html make more sense, what with ids and all
2020-06-07 10:54:08	epoch	fragment IDs in text/plain are a thing
2020-06-07 10:54:14	epoch	just don't know of any client that support them yet.
2020-06-07 10:54:19	kensanata	I'm reading https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-4.2
2020-06-07 10:54:42	kensanata	an empty path followed by a query is legal.
2020-06-07 10:54:44	epoch	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5147
2020-06-07 10:56:27	@tomasino	ahh, yes, this is great
2020-06-07 10:56:36	@tomasino	some folks on here were discussing this the other day and reinventing the wheel
2020-06-07 10:57:17	kensanata	Interesting
2020-06-07 10:59:02	kensanata	I like the example section!
2020-06-07 11:00:23	epoch	if that RFC was paper it'd be worn
2020-06-07 11:15:33	@tomasino	you mean like this? https://ttm.sh/Ex-.png
2020-06-07 11:17:14	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 11:18:12	@tomasino	i've been meaning to make a follow-up t-shirt with the ascii table from RFC20
2020-06-07 11:18:25	@tomasino	too many fun projects
2020-06-07 11:18:57	epoch	ha.
2020-06-07 12:05:14	epoch	merp. what's the link for the client torture test?
2020-06-07 12:13:43	kensanata	gemini://gemini.conman.org/test/torture/
2020-06-07 12:14:22	kensanata	I think people can now leave comments on my blog via Gemini (well, one liners). gemini://alexschroeder.ch/Gemini_Test
2020-06-07 12:15:18	epoch	gracias
2020-06-07 13:09:40	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/geminiclient here's the crap I've been working on.
2020-06-07 13:11:15	epoch	I haven't tried to setup the required stuff to get it working from scratch yet.
2020-06-07 13:11:20	epoch	it is probably a pain.
2020-06-07 13:11:44	epoch	like, 5 or so repos and combining config files and maybe making dirs.
2020-06-07 13:11:49	epoch	maybe.
2020-06-07 13:13:52		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 13:20:58	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 13:53:36	kensanata	I think my Gemini server is simply going to reflow any paragraphs (with empty lines separating paragraphs) if and only if they start with a word character.
2020-06-07 13:54:00	kensanata	$block = fill('', '', $block) if $block =~ /^\w/; # not a list, quote, etc
2020-06-07 13:54:04	kensanata	In Perl...
2020-06-07 13:54:32	kensanata	So now all I have to worry about is a special rule for list items...
2020-06-07 13:59:11	⚡	tiwesdaeg yawns
2020-06-07 13:59:50	~tiwesdaeg	kensanata: which server is yours?
2020-06-07 14:00:01	kensanata	alexschroeder.ch
2020-06-07 14:00:53	~tiwesdaeg	your own personal server, not one posted on solderpunk's software list?
2020-06-07 14:02:04	kensanata	Yeah.
2020-06-07 14:02:24	kensanata	It's a plugin for my wiki, basically, which can run without the wiki running.
2020-06-07 14:02:57	kensanata	Now that I'm starting to write a blog post about line wrapping I'm starting to see more and more issues with my heuristic. Gah!
2020-06-07 14:03:35	~tiwesdaeg	so you are having the server do the line wrapping instead of relying on the client?
2020-06-07 14:03:49		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 14:04:40	kensanata	My thinking was: why not both?
2020-06-07 14:05:32	@tomasino	i guess if you're not authoring things using the mentality that long paragraphs should be written all on one line then you'd need the server to do that before handing it off to the client to render properly
2020-06-07 14:05:32	kensanata	In a way, I think of Gemini like I think of Markdown: I should be able to comfortable read those text files in my editor.
2020-06-07 14:06:01	kensanata	tomasino: Yeah, that's what I'm realizing right now.
2020-06-07 14:06:18	~tiwesdaeg	I've never been able to write one long line per paragraph
2020-06-07 14:06:32	@tomasino	i had to configure vim for .gmi to do soft-wrapping
2020-06-07 14:06:35	@tomasino	i almost never use that
2020-06-07 14:06:45	kensanata	The weird thing is that text paragraphs can consist of multiple lines, but list items cannot, right?
2020-06-07 14:06:58	@tomasino	neither can
2020-06-07 14:07:04	@tomasino	if you break a line, it's a new paragraph
2020-06-07 14:07:07	@tomasino	even without whitespace
2020-06-07 14:07:39	~tiwesdaeg	is anyone enforcing that on their clients?
2020-06-07 14:07:54	@tomasino	not a clue. it's a fact i'm not super happy about
2020-06-07 14:08:11	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like none of the clients I use do
2020-06-07 14:08:20	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 14:08:23	@tomasino	if i write
2020-06-07 14:08:25	@tomasino	very short lines
2020-06-07 14:08:27	@tomasino	like this
2020-06-07 14:08:28	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: The iOS client I use is treating every line as a paragraph.
2020-06-07 14:08:30	@tomasino	they shouldn't reflow
2020-06-07 14:08:32	~tiwesdaeg	they are just displaying the text as I created it
2020-06-07 14:08:39	@tomasino	according to spec, that is
2020-06-07 14:08:51	kensanata	«Note also that consecutive non-blank text lines do not form any kind of coherent unit or block such as a "paragraph": all text lines are independent entities.»
2020-06-07 14:09:02	@tomasino	^ there you have it
2020-06-07 14:09:11	@tomasino	keeps parsing very VERY simple
2020-06-07 14:09:26	kensanata	That's true
2020-06-07 14:09:32	kensanata	Gaaaah.
2020-06-07 14:09:42	@tomasino	haha, and that's the right reaction as a server writer
2020-06-07 14:09:56	~tiwesdaeg	so, a client shouldn't be adding spacing between lines
2020-06-07 14:10:15	kensanata	Well, I read that as every line is a paragraph.
2020-06-07 14:10:19	~tiwesdaeg	just wrapping if the lines exceed the display limit
2020-06-07 14:10:27	kensanata	Whether you add spacing to paragraphs is a different matter,
2020-06-07 14:10:31	kensanata	Yes.
2020-06-07 14:10:32	@tomasino	that's a good question, tiwesdaeg 
2020-06-07 14:10:50	@tomasino	i mean, clients can display "paragraphs" in whatever formatting they want
2020-06-07 14:10:51	kensanata	I think it's pretty unambiguous.
2020-06-07 14:10:54	@tomasino	you could add bottom spacing
2020-06-07 14:11:02	@tomasino	but short blocks of text in sequence are each paragraphs
2020-06-07 14:11:12	kensanata	«Text lines which are longer than can fit on a client's display device SHOULD be "wrapped" to fit, i.e. long lines should be split (ideally at whitespace or at hyphens) into multiple consecutive lines of a device-appropriate width. This wrapping is applied to each line of text independently.»
2020-06-07 14:12:13	~tiwesdaeg	So, if you want to ensure your text comes out looking like a paragraph on a narrow display, you need to put it on one line
2020-06-07 14:12:30	@tomasino	hmm, so even in the rendered version there's no concept of a paragraph
2020-06-07 14:12:43	~tiwesdaeg	otherwise you get this effect
2020-06-07 14:12:44	@tomasino	and we should do long line <blank line> long line <blank line> if we want spacing
2020-06-07 14:12:46	~tiwesdaeg	xxxxxxxxxxxx
2020-06-07 14:12:48	~tiwesdaeg	xxxx
2020-06-07 14:12:50	~tiwesdaeg	yyyyyyyyyyy
2020-06-07 14:12:52	~tiwesdaeg	yyyy
2020-06-07 14:13:30	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I don't think a client should be adding spacing on its own
2020-06-07 14:13:45	@tomasino	that probably deserves a spec note
2020-06-07 14:14:12	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: This is exactly the effect I'm getting right now with the iOS client.
2020-06-07 14:15:57	~tiwesdaeg	I've been formatting my .gmi files as I would gopher, setting my own line length limits
2020-06-07 14:16:05	kensanata	Same.
2020-06-07 14:17:00	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like there should be a way, besides putting a paragraph on one long line, to denote that this body of text is one paragraph, wrap as needed
2020-06-07 14:17:44	~tiwesdaeg	single line paragraphs just suck from the content generation viewpoint
2020-06-07 14:19:01	~tiwesdaeg	what about this?
2020-06-07 14:19:13	~tiwesdaeg	First line of paragraph\n
2020-06-07 14:19:25	~tiwesdaeg	< Second line of paragraph\n
2020-06-07 14:19:40	~tiwesdaeg	< Last line of paragraph\n
2020-06-07 14:19:53	@tomasino	doesn't work well with text editors just doing hard wrapping
2020-06-07 14:21:30	~tiwesdaeg	it really only seems like this will be an issue on narrow displays
2020-06-07 14:22:24	@tomasino	text wrapping?
2020-06-07 14:22:33	@tomasino	or authoring?
2020-06-07 14:26:25	~tiwesdaeg	text wrapping
2020-06-07 14:26:56	~tiwesdaeg	well
2020-06-07 14:27:08	@tomasino	this is true, but it was a hot-button issue in the text formatting wars of the early mailing list
2020-06-07 14:27:12	~tiwesdaeg	as we keep authoring to fit our needs of file readability
2020-06-07 14:27:23	@tomasino	i see the current solution as "not what i would have chosen, but i can work with it"
2020-06-07 14:28:06	~tiwesdaeg	maybe when we get an android client out there as well and people start complaining it looks bad on mobile
2020-06-07 14:29:09	~tiwesdaeg	I could always just make everything cgi, and use printf instead of echo, then remember to add the \n on the last line of the paragraph
2020-06-07 14:29:55	@tomasino	i hope we get an android client soon
2020-06-07 14:30:19	~tiwesdaeg	yes please
2020-06-07 14:30:20	@tomasino	i'd do a lot more gemini reading if i could do it on the couch in the other room
2020-06-07 14:30:40	~tiwesdaeg	you can use one of the web proxies from the phone
2020-06-07 14:30:49	~tiwesdaeg	I think I had to do a lot of zooming though
2020-06-07 14:31:44	~tiwesdaeg	I'm going to try redoing tilde.pink's index.gmi paragraphs the gemini way
2020-06-07 14:31:47	~tiwesdaeg	see how it looks
2020-06-07 14:35:34	@tomasino	the proxies are barely viable right now
2020-06-07 14:35:48	@tomasino	they allow me to see stuff, but they fail almost all the torture tests
2020-06-07 14:36:18	@tomasino	i made cosmic just ouput everything that's not a link with a ``` wrapper
2020-06-07 14:36:25	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://tilde.pink/
2020-06-07 14:36:34	~tiwesdaeg	now with wrapped paragraphs!
2020-06-07 14:36:42	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/cosmic/cosmic/src/branch/master/awk/gophermap2gemini.awk
2020-06-07 14:37:03	@tomasino	that worked. :D
2020-06-07 14:37:09	kensanata	"not what i would have chosen, but i can work with it" 👍
2020-06-07 14:37:17	~tiwesdaeg	index.gmi is a cgi script
2020-06-07 14:37:41	~tiwesdaeg	I just did the printf trick and made sure every line ended with a space except for the last one
2020-06-07 14:37:49	@tomasino	hah, smart
2020-06-07 14:39:07	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm, bombadillo wraps in the middle of words
2020-06-07 14:39:23	ironzorg	in my made up markup format inspired after Gemini, I made it so lines that start with a space within a paragraph are appended to the previous one :) those that don't still respect the linebreak though
2020-06-07 14:40:36	~tiwesdaeg	I thought about that too when I was pondering it
2020-06-07 14:41:25	@tomasino	i hate to see meta-languages already getting created 
2020-06-07 14:41:27	@tomasino	that's a bad sign
2020-06-07 14:42:47	ironzorg	if you're passive-agressively refering to my remark, what I came up with is entirely incompatible with the current implementation
2020-06-07 14:44:46	~tiwesdaeg	I think he was referring more to the fact that the gemini standard may have some major issues if people are already creating meta-languages
2020-06-07 14:45:01	~tiwesdaeg	to fulfill needs it doesn't meet very well
2020-06-07 14:45:42		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-07 14:47:01	@tomasino	yes, not passive aggressive at all. It's a serious problem for gemini
2020-06-07 14:50:05		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-07 15:13:16	@julienxx	Castor should wrap to adapt to the window width, not when resizing though
2020-06-07 15:39:13	@tomasino	julienxx: castor's wrapping is weird when it falls to the left like this - https://ttm.sh/Qqy.png 
2020-06-07 15:39:20	@tomasino	is that intentional, or do i have a weird setting or something
2020-06-07 15:41:00	@tomasino	also, i recently emailed the mailing list that the examples in 5.3.2 of the spec aren't rendering right. That was based on viewing it in Castor
2020-06-07 15:41:05	@tomasino	that looks like this: https://ttm.sh/Qq6.png
2020-06-07 15:43:31	@tomasino	looks like it renders properly in av98
2020-06-07 15:48:58	@julienxx	tomasino: That was intentional, just like a new paragraph. Also it was easier to do :D
2020-06-07 15:50:32	@julienxx	There is a global margin which affects only the beginning of the line, haven’t investigated much why yet
2020-06-07 15:52:42	@tomasino	ahh, i can see it on paragraphs, but it threw me off because the headings were also indented with it, so i thought it was an accident
2020-06-07 15:52:53	@tomasino	writing up a message to castor's ML about the spec thing
2020-06-07 15:55:57	@julienxx	having everything glued to the left hand side of the window didn't look right, I'll see what I can do about it
2020-06-07 15:57:08	~tiwesdaeg	kristall implemented customizable margins
2020-06-07 15:57:20	~tiwesdaeg	the default is like 55px
2020-06-07 15:57:51	@julienxx	oh nice, gotta see if GTK supports this
2020-06-07 15:59:48	~tiwesdaeg	I need to give castor the same theme treatment I did for kristall
2020-06-07 16:00:07	~tiwesdaeg	it's interesting to set them side by side and see how they render differently
2020-06-07 16:02:15	@julienxx	I wanna add the optional per domain or user color scheme, this looks fun!
2020-06-07 16:04:10	@julienxx	the header navigation is nice for very big documents but for regular phlogs and stuff I'm not sure, so maybe later. First TOFU, async UI, colors and Castor should be good for a 1.0 release.
2020-06-07 16:05:14	@julienxx	I also need to make my ansi colors parsing better as some gemini places don't render well. konpeito looks nice and that was the goal initially
2020-06-07 16:33:26	dkibi	does the standard allow justified text?
2020-06-07 16:34:35	@tomasino	i would interpret it as yes
2020-06-07 16:36:09	@tomasino	oh shit, > is in spec now!
2020-06-07 16:36:10	@tomasino	nice
2020-06-07 16:36:21	@tomasino	(see ML that just came from solderpunk)
2020-06-07 16:38:34	@julienxx	neat, I wonder how I should display quotes...
2020-06-07 16:39:35	@julienxx	anyone uses them in the wild yet?
2020-06-07 16:42:03	@tomasino	i have one i'm about to update
2020-06-07 16:42:05	@tomasino	from a phlog reply
2020-06-07 16:42:07	@tomasino	one sec
2020-06-07 16:42:21	dkibi	I hope in 5 years or so we have clients who can do proper nice justified text with all the typographic bells and whistles, something the web can still not do
2020-06-07 16:42:46	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200602-re-replies.gmi
2020-06-07 16:42:54	@julienxx	perfecto
2020-06-07 16:43:43	@tomasino	did my castor mailing list post come through?
2020-06-07 16:43:59	@julienxx	yes!
2020-06-07 16:44:14	@tomasino	cool cool
2020-06-07 16:46:51	@julienxx	working with sr.ht is really nice I find, the mailing list for projects is very cool and git patches by email is the best!
2020-06-07 16:49:49	@tomasino	i still have never played with git email stuff
2020-06-07 16:50:01	@tomasino	every time i see it i just take a deep sigh and then do something else
2020-06-07 16:51:48	@tomasino	one day, maybe
2020-06-07 16:53:14	dkibi	I wonder if email based thing would generally work well in gemini space e.g. for gemlog comments
2020-06-07 16:53:51	@tomasino	here's a stupid and insecure way:
2020-06-07 16:53:53	@julienxx	tomasino: the intro video for aerc shows the mail flow https://aerc-mail.org/
2020-06-07 16:54:17	@tomasino	generate a unique postfix alias per post. point alias at a script that processes incoming mail, strips headers, and appends comments to original post.
2020-06-07 16:54:19	@julienxx	too bad I can't make it run on openbsd
2020-06-07 16:55:12	dkibi	well at least with text/gemini the worst thing one can do is to add unveted link lines
2020-06-07 16:55:39	@tomasino	he pronounced vi as "vee"
2020-06-07 16:55:44	@tomasino	that totally threw me off
2020-06-07 16:57:21	@julienxx	Hahaha
2020-06-07 16:58:53	~tiwesdaeg	that is... weird
2020-06-07 16:59:38	@tomasino	aerc is pretty cool though
2020-06-07 16:59:46	dkibi	hm I pronounce vim as veem and I think I used to pronounce vi as vee
2020-06-07 17:00:04	@tomasino	i say "vee-eye" and "vim like him"
2020-06-07 17:00:14	~tiwesdaeg	vee-eye and vim as in him
2020-06-07 17:00:16	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-06-07 17:00:19	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-07 17:00:33	~tiwesdaeg	can you spot the native english speakers?
2020-06-07 17:03:06	~tiwesdaeg	aerc has so many dependencies
2020-06-07 17:03:22	~tiwesdaeg	I love how bombadillo just compiles nice and quick
2020-06-07 17:04:10	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: did you use make or gmake for aerc?
2020-06-07 17:04:32	~tiwesdaeg	also, I found out openbsd uses a very old release of gcc
2020-06-07 17:04:53	@julienxx	I used go build I think
2020-06-07 17:06:05	~tiwesdaeg	looks like my version is too old :(
2020-06-07 17:06:34	~tiwesdaeg	I think my package is out of date
2020-06-07 17:06:55	@tomasino	i should write a cron to just pull & build all these gemini projects nightly
2020-06-07 17:07:26	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-06-07 17:07:33	~tiwesdaeg	it is very hard to keep up to date
2020-06-07 17:10:39	~tiwesdaeg	hmm, I do have 1.13+ on this desktop
2020-06-07 17:14:50	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: try running make, not go build
2020-06-07 17:15:09	~tiwesdaeg	I build with no issues on netbsd 9.0 using native make
2020-06-07 17:15:23	~tiwesdaeg	the instructions on the website say to use make as well
2020-06-07 17:15:43	~tiwesdaeg	now I need to figure out why I have an old go version on tilde.pink
2020-06-07 17:21:54		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-07 17:21:55	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 17:30:03	~tiwesdaeg	there we go, built and installed on tilde.pink
2020-06-07 18:03:22	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 18:08:04	kensanata	🙬🙭🙯🙮 ... so many rockets
2020-06-07 18:09:15		numilani has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-07 18:10:20	▬▬▶	numilani has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 18:14:09	xq	good evening
2020-06-07 18:22:15	kensanata	Is the elpher author ever on here?
2020-06-07 18:24:46	kensanata	I'm surprised to see a Tcl/Tk client. I think I gave away a Tcl/Tk book a decado ago or so. And yet it's still alive!
2020-06-07 18:36:10	~tiwesdaeg	heya xq
2020-06-07 18:44:37	xq	now: Star Wars Episode V and "Learn Gopher"
2020-06-07 19:28:13	@julienxx	That’s a good evening!
2020-06-07 19:38:15	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 19:47:19	acdw	hey yall!
2020-06-07 19:47:52	~tiwesdaeg	yo
2020-06-07 19:48:15	acdw	wild times in geminispace this weekend eh? new protocol stuff!
2020-06-07 19:49:16	xq	hey
2020-06-07 19:50:28	acdw	hi xq!
2020-06-07 19:59:28	kensanata	acdw: What's new?
2020-06-07 20:00:52	acdw	not much -- went camping this weekend and pushed an update to bollux :)
2020-06-07 20:00:59	acdw	what's new with you?
2020-06-07 20:01:40	xq	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPRA0W1kECg
2020-06-07 20:01:43	xq	whoops wrong chat
2020-06-07 20:01:47	acdw	lolol
2020-06-07 20:01:52	kensanata	This weekend... I converted about 10'000 pages from text/markdown to text/gemini... Just kidding. But they are now served as such.
2020-06-07 20:02:06	acdw	oh cool!
2020-06-07 20:02:36	kensanata	Also, leaving anonymous single-paragraph comments is now possible. Including answering a security question.
2020-06-07 20:02:48	acdw	i have a couple of projects I want to convert to be served over gemini....but i've been doing other stuff
2020-06-07 20:03:01	kensanata	"Other stuff" is the bane of my existence.
2020-06-07 20:03:08	acdw	that's great -- 1 step closer to fediverse over gemini!
2020-06-07 20:03:11	acdw	hahah YES
2020-06-07 20:03:13	acdw	gemiverse
2020-06-07 20:03:17	acdw	gediverse
2020-06-07 20:03:35	kensanata	super-brutaldon...
2020-06-07 20:03:46	acdw	awww yis
2020-06-07 20:04:17	kensanata	Too bad all this ActivityPub stuff seems way to complicated to me. I can barely handle the Mastodon Client protocol.
2020-06-07 20:04:29	kensanata	too
2020-06-07 20:04:41	acdw	yeah I haven't even looked at that -- or rather I lookd at a little bit and after the first paragraph was lik NOE
2020-06-07 20:05:15	kensanata	Heh.
2020-06-07 20:17:20		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 20:31:20		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-07 21:27:42	xq	i love how Kristall just makes the auto-styling :D
2020-06-07 21:27:52	xq	it's really nice to see domain changes with that
2020-06-07 21:32:53	styan	xq: I did figure out why libtls did not like your site.  It defaults to TLS 1.2 only.
2020-06-07 21:33:58	xq	can you elaborate that?
2020-06-07 21:36:18	styan	libtls (by default) only allows TLS 1.2 connections, and your Gemini server did not appreciate that restriction.
2020-06-07 21:38:47	xq	hm
2020-06-07 21:39:17	xq	yeah
2020-06-07 21:39:28	xq	i removed some code from gemserve
2020-06-07 21:39:38	xq	as it does not compile
2020-06-07 21:39:45	xq	> acceptor.set_min_proto_version(Some(SslVersion::TLS1_2))?;
2020-06-07 21:39:50	xq	this line fails to compile on my server
2020-06-07 21:41:08	xq	my server seems to be too old
2020-06-07 21:41:23	xq	:D
2020-06-07 21:41:41	xq	looks like it's time to finally migrate to a new VPS
2020-06-07 21:42:34	styan	I just need to add an option to allow "legasy" protocol versions to my library.
2020-06-07 21:42:46	styan	s/legasy/legacy/
2020-06-07 21:43:05	xq	:D
2020-06-07 21:49:23	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 21:49:25	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 21:49:43	styan	xq: The default font-size in kristall is bigger than it is expecting.  The ASCII art in the style menu is wrapping at the default window size, and some of the menu-items in the drop-downs are overlapping the hotkey descriptions.
2020-06-07 21:50:22	xq	yeah i noticed the menu thing already :(
2020-06-07 21:50:47	xq	and the wrapping ascii art is a known problem as preformatted lines don't nowrap atm
2020-06-07 21:50:51	xq	have to find out how to make it work
2020-06-07 21:51:23	styan	That they are wrapping with the default window size was my concern.
2020-06-07 21:52:20	xq	that's system dependent i think
2020-06-07 21:52:31	xq	i adjusted window size already a bit
2020-06-07 21:53:23	xq	but i'll take a look
2020-06-07 21:54:04	styan	Also, did you see my Makefile quibble?
2020-06-07 21:55:01	xq	yeah, but i forgot half of it already :D
2020-06-07 21:55:03	styan	`$<' in a non-suffix rule does not work in bmake(1).
2020-06-07 21:55:13	xq	what's a non-suffix rule?
2020-06-07 21:55:38	styan	.c.o:
2020-06-07 21:56:03	styan	Basically, extention matching automatic rules.
2020-06-07 21:56:18	xq	ah
2020-06-07 21:57:07	xq	so what'S the correect way to select the first dependency then?
2020-06-07 21:57:19	xq	i could probably use $^ ?
2020-06-07 21:57:20	styan	`$>' is non-standard, but more portable, and just writing out the source is POSIX.
2020-06-07 21:57:52	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 21:57:59	xq	can you send me the full rule then?
2020-06-07 21:58:07	styan	`$>' is ALLSRC though, so it is not *just* the first source.
2020-06-07 21:59:31	styan	https://paste.tildeverse.org/?7e06f50d251d4481#G65cRRrT3x2ihd95o8vJCyR3EN1TBzgmcoqqqS3AMYjk
2020-06-07 22:00:40	styan	^ That was a quick polishing, it is not 100% POSIX (.PHONY:) but it will work in pretty much any make(1).
2020-06-07 22:02:09	xq	thanks! ♥
2020-06-07 22:04:44	styan	I do not think that .PHONY will work on Illumos' dmake(1), so you should probably put that back at the bottom so it does not become the default target (the first target encountered).
2020-06-07 22:12:02	xq	changed it
2020-06-07 22:12:05	xq	will update with the next push
2020-06-07 22:12:49	styan	Now it will "just work" on *BSD (if you have QT5 installed) :-)
2020-06-07 22:13:07	xq	neat
2020-06-07 22:13:11	xq	that's an achievement!
2020-06-07 22:20:06	styan	If you ever need to know about *NIX tools portability, I have read way too much about it, so you can ask me. :-)
2020-06-07 22:27:51	xq	thanks for the offer
2020-06-07 22:28:03	xq	but i'm tired, i'm going to bed now… just need to do a small push *grin*
2020-06-07 22:29:42	xq	screenshot of the day: https://mq32.de/public/7df063a9221f3ac32001d8bbbde85ac4791703c4.png
2020-06-07 22:29:52	xq	tomasino is probably being happy about this
2020-06-07 22:30:41	styan	It looks nice!
2020-06-07 22:30:43	@tomasino	Which sexy client is that
2020-06-07 22:31:02	xq	Still Kristall!
2020-06-07 22:31:07	@tomasino	Nice
2020-06-07 22:31:09	xq	but now with gopher!
2020-06-07 22:31:17	@tomasino	Double nice
2020-06-07 22:31:25	@tomasino	What do I need to install that
2020-06-07 22:31:38	xq	qt5, a c++ compiler and a make
2020-06-07 22:31:51	xq	will add icons to the different gopher entries
2020-06-07 22:32:04	xq	fetch it here: https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall
2020-06-07 22:32:42	styan	It should not need gmake either :-)
2020-06-07 22:33:11	@tomasino	qt5... 
2020-06-07 22:33:25	@tomasino	I'll have to look at what that takes, but I'll try it tonight
2020-06-07 22:33:43	xq	neat, i'm going to bed now :D
2020-06-07 22:33:48	@tomasino	Night
2020-06-07 22:33:48	xq	work is calling tomorrow morning
2020-06-07 22:33:56	xq	night! and try Kristall, it is really good! :D
2020-06-07 22:34:11	⚡	xq puts an advertising sign on the door after leaving
2020-06-07 22:34:17	styan	Good night.
2020-06-07 22:42:05	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: I got it to build on netbsd and openbsd
2020-06-07 22:42:44	~tiwesdaeg	openbsd had some issues, but netbsd compiled just fine
2020-06-07 22:46:03	~tiwesdaeg	awww, I thought he had pushed gopher already
2020-06-07 22:54:25	styan	I just updated it, and it has Gopher support.
2020-06-07 22:55:14	styan	Though, gopher does not use a monospace font yet.
2020-06-07 23:04:51		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-07 23:23:49	@tomasino	is there any way to install QT without having to register with them and go through a bunch of hoops?
2020-06-07 23:23:57	@tomasino	I just want to build kristall
2020-06-07 23:24:26	kayw	install the dev package for your system?
2020-06-07 23:24:29	@tomasino	this website is a labyrinth of crap i don't care about
2020-06-07 23:24:38	@tomasino	yeah, that's what i want to do, not sure where to find it
2020-06-07 23:24:55	kayw	what distro?
2020-06-07 23:25:04	@tomasino	ubuntu 18.04
2020-06-07 23:25:44	kayw	uhh
2020-06-07 23:26:04	kayw	looks like it should be `qt5-devel`
2020-06-07 23:26:18	kayw	oh no
2020-06-07 23:26:19	kayw	wait
2020-06-07 23:26:25	kayw	it's `qtbase5-dev`
2020-06-07 23:26:30	@tomasino	in apt?
2020-06-07 23:26:58	kayw	yeah
2020-06-07 23:27:14	@tomasino	hrm, i already had that installed apparently
2020-06-07 23:27:18	@tomasino	but make failed spectacularly
2020-06-07 23:27:22	@tomasino	lets see why...
2020-06-07 23:28:35	@tomasino	https://wiki.qt.io/Install_Qt_5_on_Ubuntu
2020-06-07 23:28:37	@tomasino	gonna try this
2020-06-07 23:28:57	@tomasino	or not
2020-06-07 23:30:41	kayw	maybe `qt5-default`?
2020-06-07 23:32:26	@tomasino	that's installed too
2020-06-07 23:32:32	@tomasino	i think it's the extras he mentions
2020-06-07 23:32:35	@tomasino	widgets and so on
2020-06-07 23:32:43	@tomasino	widgets & network
2020-06-07 23:33:59	@tomasino	nope, i have those too
2020-06-07 23:34:01	@tomasino	already, and automatic
2020-06-07 23:34:06	@tomasino	so why is this blowing up
2020-06-07 23:35:26	@tomasino	../src/geminirenderer.hpp:32:17: error: ‘unique_ptr’ in namespace ‘std’ does not name a template type
2020-06-07 23:35:26	@tomasino	     static std::unique_ptr<GeminiDocument> render(
2020-06-07 23:35:34	@tomasino	that's the first of many, many errors
2020-06-07 23:35:50	@tomasino	i guess i'll bug xq when they're back
2020-06-07 23:36:58	styan	They said that kristall uses a few c++17 bits.
2020-06-07 23:42:23	@tomasino	hrm, does htat require a newer gcc or something?
2020-06-07 23:42:28	@tomasino	meh, no clue
2020-06-07 23:51:39		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-07 23:51:56	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-07 23:57:09		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 00:01:34	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 00:14:28	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 00:19:10	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino:
2020-06-08 00:19:17	~tiwesdaeg	how are you trying to compile it?
2020-06-08 00:20:06	@tomasino	make
2020-06-08 00:20:08	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-08 00:20:15	@tomasino	i tried the other method in the readme too
2020-06-08 00:20:30	~tiwesdaeg	should be, git pull... / cd kristall / mkdir build / cd build / qmake ../src/kristall.pro / make install
2020-06-08 00:21:08	~tiwesdaeg	he did put everything is src just recently, not sure if the readme was updated
2020-06-08 00:22:08	@tomasino	i did that method too
2020-06-08 00:24:19	acdw	I had to set my QT version before building: `make QT_SELECT=5`
2020-06-08 00:30:18	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/Q05.txt
2020-06-08 00:33:03	acdw	:O
2020-06-08 00:33:11	acdw	That's beyond my paygrade lol
2020-06-08 00:34:36	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-08 00:34:40	⚡	tomasino shrugs
2020-06-08 00:35:39	acdw	but hey, tomasino, I just checked bollux on tilde.black and tilde.institute and it's working for me... can you check it on yr end to let me know what errors you're finding?
2020-06-08 00:36:00	@tomasino	sure!
2020-06-08 00:36:43	@tomasino	well, the makefile starts with this:
2020-06-08 00:36:45	@tomasino	install -Dt /usr/bin/            bollux        
2020-06-08 00:36:45	@tomasino	install: unknown option -- t
2020-06-08 00:36:45	@tomasino	usage: install [-bCcDdFpSs] [-B suffix] [-f flags] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner]
2020-06-08 00:36:45	@tomasino	               source ... target ...
2020-06-08 00:36:45	@tomasino	*** Error 1 in /root/git/bollux (Makefile:14 'install')
2020-06-08 00:36:51	@tomasino	i'll manually copy it to path
2020-06-08 00:37:51	@tomasino	works!
2020-06-08 00:38:02	@tomasino	yep, just the makefile that is a sad, sad man
2020-06-08 00:38:17	@tomasino	install -m 755 bollux /usr/local/bin/ # works fine
2020-06-08 00:38:54	⚡	tomasino shimmies
2020-06-08 00:38:57	@tomasino	i like bollux
2020-06-08 00:39:06	@tomasino	and now we have av98 on black as well (and cosmic)
2020-06-08 00:39:50	makeworld	tomasino: tilde.black is still serving tabs in between its status and metas
2020-06-08 00:40:00	@tomasino	oh yeah?
2020-06-08 00:40:06	@tomasino	gotta update jetforce again, i guess
2020-06-08 00:40:07	@tomasino	uno momento
2020-06-08 00:40:14	makeworld	What version?
2020-06-08 00:40:44	@tomasino	how about now?
2020-06-08 00:40:46	@tomasino	i just upgraded
2020-06-08 00:41:14	@tomasino	last time i upgraded on black was for the security patch that leaked info through ..
2020-06-08 00:41:21	makeworld	Still a tab I think
2020-06-08 00:41:37	makeworld	Idk, my server and yours are doing different behaviour for some reason
2020-06-08 00:42:01	makeworld	For example mine just closes the connection when I send a bad URL, but yours reports it with a ta
2020-06-08 00:42:02	makeworld	*tab
2020-06-08 00:42:15	makeworld	echo -e -n 'test\r\n' | gnutls-cli -p 1965 --insecure tilde.black
2020-06-08 00:42:21	makeworld	That returns an error code
2020-06-08 00:42:34	makeworld	But doing the same with makeworld.gq just closes the connection
2020-06-08 00:42:55	makeworld	Like it doesn't seem like they're running the same server
2020-06-08 00:43:12	makeworld	I'm running jetforce 0.3.2
2020-06-08 00:43:24	makeworld	You're probably on 0.2.1?
2020-06-08 00:46:22	@tomasino	it says 0.3.2
2020-06-08 00:47:13	acdw	hey tomasino, sorry for being away; I sometimes think I'm not great @ IRC. But great! I'll update the Makefile :)
2020-06-08 00:47:36	@tomasino	you're doing IRC just fine. people pop in and out
2020-06-08 00:47:59	@tomasino	a highlight window is a good addition if you don't have one. Then people can just do "acdw ^" and leave you a note for later
2020-06-08 00:49:11	acdw	Oh yes!
2020-06-08 00:51:28	acdw	tomasino: pushed :)
2020-06-08 00:52:29	@tomasino	and there we go
2020-06-08 00:52:37	@tomasino	no errors
2020-06-08 00:53:06	@tomasino	cosmic.voyage looks so sexy in bollux
2020-06-08 00:53:32	acdw	:D
2020-06-08 00:53:38	acdw	awesome possum I'm so happy
2020-06-08 00:53:58	acdw	any sexyness-related suggestions are welcome
2020-06-08 00:54:47	@tomasino	i use "o" to open a link while i'm looking at it, but it kicks me over to the big list of links when i "o" and i lose my place
2020-06-08 00:56:36	acdw	yes that's like, the worst part. It's a limitation of less only letting me pipe to programs, and only allowing customization of 10 exit codes
2020-06-08 00:56:54	@tomasino	ahha
2020-06-08 00:56:58	@tomasino	well, okay then. :D
2020-06-08 00:57:00	acdw	I could 'cancel' the o with another keybind, but it'd reload the page
2020-06-08 00:57:03	acdw	it's so frustratin!
2020-06-08 00:57:20	@tomasino	brool's stoned.txt looks sexy too
2020-06-08 00:57:44	acdw	I'm thinking about just adding a command line option in bollux itself to like, open a link number. oooor I could extract the url and have it exec $0
2020-06-08 00:57:48	acdw	hmmmmmm
2020-06-08 00:58:01	acdw	I thought this was a done deal but now I'm thinking
2020-06-08 00:58:31	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-08 00:58:38	@tomasino	i'm gonna celebrate by going to bed
2020-06-08 00:58:41	@tomasino	peace all
2020-06-08 00:58:52	acdw	o/
2020-06-08 00:58:54	acdw	night!
2020-06-08 01:04:50		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-08 01:05:00	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 01:17:59		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-08 01:29:17		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 01:29:17		lukee_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 01:31:51	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 01:42:49		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 02:46:15		numilani has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 02:49:18	▬▬▶	numilani has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 03:08:26		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-08 03:08:34	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 03:27:28	ℹ 	epoch is now known as `epochbot
2020-06-08 03:31:40		numilani has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 03:31:55	▬▬▶	numilani has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 03:42:41		numilani has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 04:00:13	▬▬▶	numilani_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 04:18:40	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 04:19:00		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-08 04:25:08		numilani_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-08 04:25:13	▬▬▶	numilani_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 04:50:48		pentangle has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-08 04:56:14	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 06:28:49		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 06:33:59	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 06:34:00	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-08 08:00:53	▬▬▶	tadzik has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 08:01:16	tadzik	hello #gemini o/
2020-06-08 08:14:41	@julienxx	Hi!
2020-06-08 08:29:21	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 08:29:21	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 09:13:27		lukee_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 09:13:27		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 10:19:27	xq	heyhey
2020-06-08 10:57:29	xq	implemented some new features for Kristall on the bus
2020-06-08 10:57:40	xq	it can now display video files and play back audio files
2020-06-08 11:52:30	@tomasino	good morning xq !
2020-06-08 11:52:45	@tomasino	i tried installing Kristall last night, but i ended up with this: https://ttm.sh/Q05.txt
2020-06-08 12:00:22	ℹ 	`epochbot is now known as epoch
2020-06-08 12:01:52	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 12:01:52	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 12:12:22	xq	what compiler did you use?
2020-06-08 12:12:33	xq	you need a c++ compiler that can work with C++17
2020-06-08 12:17:33	@tomasino	i'm not sure
2020-06-08 12:17:45	@tomasino	i have gcc and cc, what do you use?
2020-06-08 12:17:58		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 12:17:58		lukee_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 12:18:51	@tomasino	looking inthe build dir makefile i see:
2020-06-08 12:18:53	@tomasino	CC            = gcc
2020-06-08 12:18:53	@tomasino	CXX           = g++
2020-06-08 12:26:46	xq	what g++ version is that?
2020-06-08 12:27:22	xq	and what OS are you on?
2020-06-08 12:31:54	@tomasino	ubuntu 18.04
2020-06-08 12:31:56	@tomasino	let me check!
2020-06-08 12:32:30	@tomasino	g++ (Ubuntu 7.5.0-3ubuntu1~18.04) 7.5.0
2020-06-08 12:33:52	xq	hmm
2020-06-08 12:34:16	xq	can you add a
2020-06-08 12:34:19	xq	#include <memory>
2020-06-08 12:34:23	xq	at top of browsertab.hpp ?
2020-06-08 12:34:27	xq	just pack it to the other includes
2020-06-08 12:37:54	@tomasino	hat got rid of most of the errors
2020-06-08 12:37:55	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/Q0r.txt
2020-06-08 12:37:58	@tomasino	that's all that's left
2020-06-08 12:43:25	xq	o, whoops
2020-06-08 12:43:45	⚡	xq may be a bit stupid :D
2020-06-08 12:44:19	xq	you can just comment that statement
2020-06-08 12:44:56	xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/blob/master/src/browsertab.cpp#L335-L344
2020-06-08 12:45:01	xq	prepend all these lines with //
2020-06-08 12:45:05	xq	and you should be good to go
2020-06-08 12:47:06	@julienxx	Pushed Castor 0.8.14 with quotes support and better wrapping, tomasino it should fix the issue you raised yesterday regarding links in ``` and text alignment.
2020-06-08 12:48:50	tadzik	julienxx: oh, am I right to assume you develop asuka as well?
2020-06-08 12:49:16	tadzik	``` reminded me that asuka actually renders these incorrectly, as I noticed when reading the spec on it yesterday :)
2020-06-08 12:51:44	@tomasino	commented out, and now: https://ttm.sh/Q0s.txt
2020-06-08 12:51:45	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-08 12:51:50	@tomasino	this is pretty funny
2020-06-08 12:51:52	@julienxx	yes I do Asuka too
2020-06-08 12:52:10	@tomasino	thanks julienxx !
2020-06-08 12:52:33	@tomasino	building now
2020-06-08 12:52:51	@tomasino	i love these projects
2020-06-08 12:53:01	@tomasino	i'm excited to try Kristall soon
2020-06-08 12:53:11	@julienxx	ah forgot to update the README, doing it right now
2020-06-08 12:54:21	@tomasino	my cpu fan is preparing for takeoff
2020-06-08 12:54:26	@tomasino	that's how you know the compiling is good
2020-06-08 12:59:54	@julienxx	sorry will have to push again, just noticed a small mistake
2020-06-08 13:00:17	@tomasino	OHNOES
2020-06-08 13:00:18	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-08 13:00:19	@tomasino	no biggy
2020-06-08 13:01:24	@julienxx	for quotes my background color setting was using foreground color setting :D
2020-06-08 13:02:17	@tomasino	that would have been ... difficult
2020-06-08 13:02:37	@julienxx	All right it should be fixed
2020-06-08 13:02:46	@tomasino	building again
2020-06-08 13:02:51	@tomasino	let's light this candle
2020-06-08 13:03:00	@tomasino	as the astronauts say
2020-06-08 13:03:49	xq	tomasino: add "#include <cassert>" to the top of documentoutlinemodel.cpp
2020-06-08 13:05:52	@tomasino	okay,same error was on a few other cpp files and i did the same. Up to a new one now: https://ttm.sh/Q09.txt
2020-06-08 13:06:45	~tiwesdaeg	curse you ubuntu!
2020-06-08 13:06:50	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-08 13:06:59	@tomasino	am i missing something environment wise?
2020-06-08 13:07:02	~tiwesdaeg	xq: what system are you building it on?
2020-06-08 13:09:55	xq	arch
2020-06-08 13:10:09	xq	i had the fear with ubuntu :D
2020-06-08 13:10:21	xq	yeah, looks like i have to build it with ubuntu
2020-06-08 13:10:31	~tiwesdaeg	we should all fear ubuntu
2020-06-08 13:10:33	xq	let me boot up my ubuntu VM
2020-06-08 13:10:36	⚡	xq doesn't like ubuntu
2020-06-08 13:10:45	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-08 13:10:51	@tomasino	you want a diff of what i've done so far?
2020-06-08 13:10:51	~tiwesdaeg	debian: yes ubuntu: no
2020-06-08 13:11:14	xq	nah, i've written what you should have changed
2020-06-08 13:11:19	@tomasino	coolio
2020-06-08 13:11:25	@tomasino	i'll reset and wait for a new version then
2020-06-08 13:11:37	~tiwesdaeg	xq: you haven't pushed the gopher support yet?
2020-06-08 13:12:00	~tiwesdaeg	I saw that image you posted, but the build I did this morning still doesn't have it
2020-06-08 13:12:30	xq	tiwesdaeg: i have, but i think you have to enable gopher in the settings :D
2020-06-08 13:13:01	@tomasino	julienxx: this looks great!
2020-06-08 13:13:25	~tiwesdaeg	ahhh
2020-06-08 13:13:38	@tomasino	i'm guessing there's a new color var i need to set in the config for quotes
2020-06-08 13:13:50	~tiwesdaeg	building new castor now
2020-06-08 13:14:09	@julienxx	indeed, checkout the README you can set background and foreground this time
2020-06-08 13:14:31	@tomasino	found it. thanks!
2020-06-08 13:16:19	@tomasino	i like how you're handling wrapping too
2020-06-08 13:16:23	@tomasino	this is really solid
2020-06-08 13:19:28	@julienxx	cool :)
2020-06-08 13:37:22	xq	mr tomasino, can you try again? it builds in my ubuntu 20.04 VM
2020-06-08 13:42:06	~tiwesdaeg	I blame his icelandic copy of ubuntu for being too cold
2020-06-08 13:43:43	xq	hrhr
2020-06-08 13:43:50	⚡	xq blames Ubuntu for being ubuntu
2020-06-08 13:46:53	@tomasino	xq: https://ttm.sh/Q0N.txt -- changes I made to get it to work
2020-06-08 13:46:56	@tomasino	but it DID work
2020-06-08 13:46:57	@tomasino	yay!
2020-06-08 13:47:09	~tiwesdaeg	yes!
2020-06-08 13:47:14	xq	nice!
2020-06-08 13:47:17	~tiwesdaeg	welcome to the kristall nation
2020-06-08 13:47:21	@tomasino	huzzah
2020-06-08 13:47:30	xq	weird that i don't need the asserts :D
2020-06-08 13:47:34	xq	but i'll add them
2020-06-08 13:49:21	xq	i love *nix
2020-06-08 13:49:28	xq	curl https://ttm.sh/Q0N.txt | patch
2020-06-08 13:49:29	xq	:D
2020-06-08 13:52:09	@tomasino	i figured that would be the easiest way to do it for ya
2020-06-08 13:52:10	@tomasino	heh
2020-06-08 13:52:25	xq	thanks <3
2020-06-08 13:52:30	xq	+2 OS now!
2020-06-08 13:52:38	xq	a friend of mine tested MacOS and it also builds there!
2020-06-08 13:53:03	@tomasino	i love that i can make the font bigger in Kristall
2020-06-08 13:53:09	⚡	tomasino has bad vision
2020-06-08 13:53:26	@tomasino	i'll have to rig up a desktop file for it later
2020-06-08 13:54:25	xq	:)
2020-06-08 13:54:34	xq	i think customizability is important
2020-06-08 13:54:53	xq	i have to check if i can provide also different UI styles for the Qt widgets
2020-06-08 13:55:08	xq	also, in production right now: import/export of custom document styles
2020-06-08 13:57:17	@tomasino	kicking the tires on gopher
2020-06-08 13:57:23	@tomasino	navigation looks good
2020-06-08 13:57:34	@tomasino	i don't think it's using the fixed width font, though... or something's off for ascii art
2020-06-08 13:57:37	@tomasino	but otherwise solid
2020-06-08 13:57:50	@tomasino	gemini looks stellar
2020-06-08 13:57:53	@tomasino	(get it?)
2020-06-08 13:58:21	xq	yeah, gopher is not fully ready yet
2020-06-08 13:58:48	xq	gopher should use the preformatted font for example
2020-06-08 13:58:57	xq	i also want to add type icons instead of a text note
2020-06-08 13:59:06	xq	and implement uudecode/hexbin decoding
2020-06-08 14:00:14	@tomasino	you're on your way
2020-06-08 14:01:14	xq	i still think about the finger implementation though
2020-06-08 14:01:22	xq	for static data, it's clear how to solve this
2020-06-08 14:01:27	xq	but the reverse ping is giving me a headache
2020-06-08 14:01:33	xq	is this a common service?
2020-06-08 14:01:53	@tomasino	no, not at all
2020-06-08 14:02:12	xq	okay, so i can just show an endless loading icon and allow the user to cancel the request
2020-06-08 14:02:15	@tomasino	it's weird because it takes a while to process and respond
2020-06-08 14:02:30	@tomasino	normally finger is really quick
2020-06-08 14:05:05	xq	okay, so i can just implement it with "display the response as text/plain" and be happy about that
2020-06-08 14:29:57	~tiwesdaeg	xq: openbsd and netbsd = 2 different operating systems
2020-06-08 14:30:21	~tiwesdaeg	very different kernels and binaries are not compatible
2020-06-08 14:31:38	xq	tiwesdaeg: I think i'm kinda aware of this, but why do you tell me this? :D
2020-06-08 14:32:25	~tiwesdaeg	I think I read your +2 OS now! as you support 2 os's now
2020-06-08 14:33:10	~tiwesdaeg	has anyone compiled it on windows?
2020-06-08 14:33:15	xq	i tried :D
2020-06-08 14:33:31	xq	i will do some windows 7/10 builds later
2020-06-08 14:33:40	xq	also, what i really want to try:
2020-06-08 14:33:46	xq	Qt Widgets support android
2020-06-08 14:33:59	xq	would be neat to also have an android app with all these features
2020-06-08 14:34:18	~tiwesdaeg	yes please!
2020-06-08 14:34:38	~tiwesdaeg	some of us really want an android app
2020-06-08 14:35:53	xq	:)
2020-06-08 14:53:35	@tomasino	xq: i should have remembered i made this -- https://toobnix.org/videos/watch/1b9699da-3c41-48a8-8009-97b756e88a3d
2020-06-08 14:53:43	@tomasino	may have saved you a few minutes
2020-06-08 14:54:04	xq	:D
2020-06-08 14:54:13	xq	i'll watch it later, i probably learn some stuff anyways
2020-06-08 14:57:10		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 15:03:30	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 15:33:13	makeworld	My client is starting to feel like the real thing, it's cool
2020-06-08 15:33:32	makeworld	I can finally browse around, click links, load URLs, use different tabs, etc
2020-06-08 15:33:33	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-08 15:33:59	makeworld	Also tomasino tilde.black is still giving me tabs
2020-06-08 15:34:05		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-08 15:34:06	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 15:34:38	@tomasino	i'm not sure what else to do. I just pip upgrade and restart jetforce
2020-06-08 15:35:05	makeworld	What version do you have? It's so strange to me bc I'm also running Jetforce
2020-06-08 15:35:37	@tomasino	jetforce 0.3.2
2020-06-08 15:35:50	@tomasino	what about cosmic voyage?
2020-06-08 15:36:15	@tomasino	i'm running 0.3.2 on there as well
2020-06-08 15:37:10	makeworld	Hmm it's different
2020-06-08 15:37:58	@tomasino	maybe it's an openbsd thing
2020-06-08 15:38:06	makeworld	It shouldn't be
2020-06-08 15:38:13	makeworld	There's some weird stuff going on for sure
2020-06-08 15:38:37	makeworld	Because cosmic.voyage and makeworld.gq just close the connection when the URL is wrong
2020-06-08 15:38:57	makeworld	But tilde.black returns status code 51, which seems correct
2020-06-08 15:39:24	makeworld	Tbh I think it must be an error with the way I'm doing it or something
2020-06-08 15:39:34	makeworld	Because it works fine in real clients
2020-06-08 15:39:42	makeworld	Like I get a Not Found and everything
2020-06-08 15:39:54	makeworld	So maybe it's just my commandline thing that's messing things up
2020-06-08 15:40:08	makeworld	Bc I'm just using echo and gnutls-cli
2020-06-08 15:40:24	@tomasino	hmm
2020-06-08 15:40:33	@tomasino	possibly
2020-06-08 15:40:42	makeworld	echo -e -n 'test\r\n' | gnutls-cli -p 1965 --insecure tilde.black
2020-06-08 15:41:07	makeworld	However I still think there are issues because I'm getting "can't read header" issues with tilde.black and no one else
2020-06-08 15:41:17	makeworld	Clearly there is something different going on
2020-06-08 15:41:53	makeworld	Maybe you installed Jetforce in the wrong place? Like with --user but not sudo or something??
2020-06-08 15:42:03	@tomasino	installed it as root
2020-06-08 15:42:15	@tomasino	it runs as a gemini user though
2020-06-08 15:42:51	makeworld	Argh this is very strange
2020-06-08 15:43:16	makeworld	The easiest solution is to just fix my client so it works with your server
2020-06-08 15:43:19	makeworld	But still
2020-06-08 15:43:33	@tomasino	if there's something wrong i'd love to fix it
2020-06-08 15:46:59	makeworld	I'll try and look around to see what the issue is but there's definitely something wrong
2020-06-08 15:47:27	makeworld	Part of it is my client code, but also I think your server is strange somehow
2020-06-08 15:50:30	@tomasino	try it again now
2020-06-08 15:50:35	@tomasino	i hard-killed it and restarted
2020-06-08 15:50:43	@tomasino	i think maybe my restart didn't take
2020-06-08 15:51:16	makeworld	Yep it's down
2020-06-08 15:51:25	@tomasino	all the way down?
2020-06-08 15:51:29	@tomasino	didn't start back again?
2020-06-08 15:51:30	@tomasino	hrm
2020-06-08 15:51:34	makeworld	I'm getting connection refused so I think yes
2020-06-08 15:52:14	@tomasino	try now?
2020-06-08 15:53:36	ironzorg	the server doesn't assume the scheme is gemini:// in the request
2020-06-08 15:54:15	ironzorg	59: printf 'tilde.black\r\n' | openssl s_client -connect tilde.black:1965 -quiet -verify_quiet
2020-06-08 15:54:16	ironzorg	31: printf 'gemini://tilde.black\r\n' | openssl s_client -connect tilde.black:1965 -quiet -verify_quiet
2020-06-08 15:54:23	makeworld	It's still sending tabs
2020-06-08 15:54:24	ironzorg	unless I'm missing something?
2020-06-08 15:54:48	makeworld	Well there's that yeah
2020-06-08 15:54:56	makeworld	But also it's sending tabs
2020-06-08 15:55:17	@tomasino	still?
2020-06-08 15:55:20	makeworld	tomasino: I really doubt that Jetforce v0.3.2 is answering these requests, I think something else is going on. It doesn't make sense
2020-06-08 15:55:21	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-08 15:55:27	makeworld	echo -e -n 'gemini://tilde.black\r\n' | gnutls-cli -p 1965 --insecure tilde.black
2020-06-08 15:56:09	@tomasino	it's def 0.3.2
2020-06-08 15:56:30	makeworld	Argh that's so strange then. It doesn't make any sense how it would be acting different from my server
2020-06-08 15:56:51	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/Q0y.txt
2020-06-08 15:57:00	@tomasino	that's my service runner
2020-06-08 15:58:52	makeworld	I have no idea
2020-06-08 15:59:01	makeworld	Okay maybe this is stupid but
2020-06-08 15:59:10	makeworld	What does /usr/local/bin/jetforce --version return?
2020-06-08 15:59:15	@tomasino	0.3.2
2020-06-08 15:59:31	@tomasino	and ps confirms, that's the only one running
2020-06-08 15:59:41	makeworld	Wow
2020-06-08 16:01:57	makeworld	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/blob/9ac80a986c6ed8a62951c857315ca04b6d127c32/jetforce/protocol.py#L198
2020-06-08 16:02:07	makeworld	It looks like even v0.3.2 Jetforce uses a tab lol
2020-06-08 16:02:15	makeworld	Still doesn't explain why your server is different
2020-06-08 16:02:34	@tomasino	cosmic isn't giving you a tab?
2020-06-08 16:02:38	@tomasino	it's also on 0.3.2
2020-06-08 16:04:12	makeworld	Actually, cosmic just closes the connection all the time when I use gnutls-cli
2020-06-08 16:04:22	makeworld	Just like my site does
2020-06-08 16:04:44	makeworld	Bc I'm clearly missing something, idk. My "client" isn't doing what it expects maybe
2020-06-08 16:04:59	makeworld	But it also shows that yours is definitely different
2020-06-08 16:05:22	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 16:05:30	@tomasino	so strange
2020-06-08 16:05:41	@tomasino	cosmic is ubuntu and running jetforce with systemd
2020-06-08 16:05:46	@tomasino	but it's still jetforce
2020-06-08 16:06:09	makeworld	Yeah it really shouldn't make a difference
2020-06-08 16:06:36	makeworld	Can you use a networking command to look at all the processes attached to that port?
2020-06-08 16:07:26	makeworld	sudo netstat -tulpn | grep 1965
2020-06-08 16:09:11	makeworld	Man this is weird
2020-06-08 16:09:17	@tomasino	-tulpn isn't valid in openbsd
2020-06-08 16:09:21	@tomasino	must be gnu netstat
2020-06-08 16:09:32	makeworld	Oh yeah sorry I'm on linux
2020-06-08 16:10:00	makeworld	Idk what the equiv. is but maybe you can from there? Idk what to think lol, I'm just trying to look at what maybe it could be
2020-06-08 16:10:19	makeworld	You know better than me what's going on there, I'm just confused why two servers would act different
2020-06-08 16:10:59	@tomasino	i'm reading the man pages side by side
2020-06-08 16:11:35	makeworld	👍
2020-06-08 16:12:40	ironzorg	clear the Python pyc cache
2020-06-08 16:14:18	makeworld	Where even is that?
2020-06-08 16:14:25	@tomasino	python3 -m pip --no-cache-dir install --upgrade --force jetforce
2020-06-08 16:14:29	@tomasino	i'm doing this
2020-06-08 16:14:50	@tomasino	forcing a clean rebuild
2020-06-08 16:14:59	@tomasino	there's only one thing listening to 1965
2020-06-08 16:15:09	@tomasino	netstat on bsd is NOTHING like gnu netstat
2020-06-08 16:15:11	@tomasino	it's frustrating
2020-06-08 16:15:34	makeworld	Ah damn
2020-06-08 16:15:51	makeworld	Maybe sudo ss -tulpn | grep 1965
2020-06-08 16:15:59	makeworld	Idk if ss is different on openbsd
2020-06-08 16:18:13	makeworld	tomasino: Won't that command maybe install to the local user folder?
2020-06-08 16:18:19	makeworld	You might want to use sudo
2020-06-08 16:20:35	@tomasino	i'm root
2020-06-08 16:21:00	xq	tomasino: https://mq32.de/public/1f362dda4c567c6a6c5481062f29b36fa76b0f16.png
2020-06-08 16:21:03	xq	got some stuff improved :)
2020-06-08 16:21:22	@tomasino	so pretty
2020-06-08 16:21:39	@tomasino	interesting... this python build failed
2020-06-08 16:21:45	@tomasino	incompatable dependencies
2020-06-08 16:21:57	@tomasino	upgraded pip and trying again
2020-06-08 16:23:20	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-08 16:23:58	makeworld	So there was definitely something going on, some old software somewhere - maybe?
2020-06-08 16:24:05	@tomasino	ERROR: requests 2.22.0 has requirement idna<2.9,>=2.5, but you'll have idna 2.9 which is incompatible.
2020-06-08 16:24:05	makeworld	Definitely maybe
2020-06-08 16:24:22	makeworld	Uninstall idna and try again?
2020-06-08 16:24:49	makeworld	If you need idna for something else you'll be stuck in Python dep hell and have to create a virtualenv probably
2020-06-08 16:25:16	companion_cube	python packaging seems like a nightmare…
2020-06-08 16:25:36	@tomasino	i love python the language, and absolutely abhore pip
2020-06-08 16:26:33	acdw	It seems that the "correct" command to use for python packaging keeps changing, as well -- pip, poetry, python -m venv, etc etc etc
2020-06-08 16:26:40	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-08 16:26:46	acdw	I know those are all different, but they're not different enough for me to keep them straight
2020-06-08 16:27:04	companion_cube	that's why people are so eager to move to Go for devops stuff
2020-06-08 16:27:08	companion_cube	just get one binary, end of story
2020-06-08 16:27:09	acdw	I feel like the Python community should stop everything until they get first-class packaging support like go, or rust
2020-06-08 16:27:24	acdw	b/c it's a huge reason I don't use python tbh
2020-06-08 16:27:27	companion_cube	same
2020-06-08 16:27:36	companion_cube	or that I try to not use software written in python
2020-06-08 16:28:29	@tomasino	yes, that exactly
2020-06-08 16:28:59	xj9	packaging support is bad for you (imo)
2020-06-08 16:29:02	companion_cube	whereas, even though I despise Go's design, I like a lot of programs written in Go, and they don't break
2020-06-08 16:30:03	acdw	xj9 I admit I don't really know what I'm talking about; I'm probably using the wrong language.
2020-06-08 16:30:04	xj9	only the system package manager should be dealing with packages
2020-06-08 16:30:33	companion_cube	that's a C centric view
2020-06-08 16:30:37	acdw	But what I mean is -- I have no idea how to start a program in python. Especially if I think it's going to be medium-to-large and will require a couple of things others have written
2020-06-08 16:31:06	companion_cube	xj9: my beef with that is that if you write a library, then you need to package it for hundreds of distros, macOS, windows, BSD, etc.
2020-06-08 16:31:08	companion_cube	it's just too much
2020-06-08 16:31:09	@tomasino	someone should write a python2appimage thing
2020-06-08 16:31:15	makeworld	Yeah deps are kinda bad sometimes, but personally I've actually never had issues
2020-06-08 16:31:32	acdw	If you have any resources to figuring it out I'd love to see them
2020-06-08 16:31:40	@tomasino	i've had so many issues with python over the years
2020-06-08 16:31:41	xj9	tomasino: i'd like to do that for python programs and some node.js programs i have to use
2020-06-08 16:31:42	makeworld	I've looked into the tools to manage dependencies though, and it seems that Poetry is the best one
2020-06-08 16:31:56	makeworld	https://python-poetry.org/
2020-06-08 16:32:00	makeworld	It's what GUS uses, in fact
2020-06-08 16:32:04	acdw	thanks, makeworld! I've used poetry ... once? So I'm not used to it. But I'll try it out more :)
2020-06-08 16:32:05	companion_cube	I remember that pelican was the straw that broke my back wrt python
2020-06-08 16:32:10	@tomasino	give me a self contained thing that i can run, or let a package manager deal with it properly
2020-06-08 16:32:18	companion_cube	clearly now, it's replaced by hugo/zola/…
2020-06-08 16:32:21	makeworld	acdw: Welcome! It seems great
2020-06-08 16:32:29	ironzorg	→ Docker
2020-06-08 16:32:40	xj9	that's not self contained though
2020-06-08 16:32:47	xj9	you need to set up a daemon first
2020-06-08 16:32:59	makeworld	One of the nice things about Go dep management is that it can download and manage multiple dependency versions recursively
2020-06-08 16:33:01	dkibi	xj9: you will not be able to convince companion_cube, I tried ^^
2020-06-08 16:33:16	companion_cube	convince me about what? system packages? it's terrible :D
2020-06-08 16:33:25	companion_cube	I mean, it's good for applications, terrible for libraries
2020-06-08 16:33:26	xj9	we'll you're right
2020-06-08 16:33:30	makeworld	Like I can install whatever version of whatever stuff I want and it will list all the dependencies and their hashes in two files
2020-06-08 16:33:43	xj9	package managers generally are terrible
2020-06-08 16:33:47	makeworld	There's never a problem bc you just maintain mutliple versions
2020-06-08 16:34:10	makeworld	xj9: There's an inherent problem, but lots of software does i pretty well
2020-06-08 16:34:50	makeworld	Anyway I still love Python, the language makes it worth it for me I guess. Although I've been writing a lot of Go these days :)
2020-06-08 16:35:24	companion_cube	I wish go wasn't that bad a language, its tooling is cool
2020-06-08 16:36:07	makeworld	Haha what makes it bad to you? I like it so far
2020-06-08 16:36:33	companion_cube	everything in the design, really: nil, no sum types, statement-based instead of expression-based…
2020-06-08 16:36:41	companion_cube	(no generics, ofc)
2020-06-08 16:37:02	companion_cube	the only nice thing it has is that it makes nice self contained binaries :D
2020-06-08 16:39:04	makeworld	Huh, I don't think I know enough to really care about that stuff
2020-06-08 16:39:25	makeworld	I learned Python first, and then Go. Some C, and Java when I'm forced too
2020-06-08 16:39:27	makeworld	*to
2020-06-08 16:39:38	companion_cube	right, different audiences, is all
2020-06-08 16:42:45	~tiwesdaeg	xq: have you pushed that gopher update already?
2020-06-08 16:43:00	xq	yes, *at the moment* :D
2020-06-08 16:43:14	xq	and: have you enabled gopher in the settings?
2020-06-08 16:43:27	@tomasino	i can't reinstall jetforce from scratch. it hits too many problems with compatibility of other things
2020-06-08 16:43:35	@tomasino	i'd need to figure out a virtual env or something
2020-06-08 16:43:44	@tomasino	i'll leave it as is for now until i have time to deal with it
2020-06-08 16:44:26	xj9	i find python to be a nice language to teach with (assuming you avoid the package management issues)
2020-06-08 16:44:44	companion_cube	as long as you don't try to write production code in it… ;)
2020-06-08 16:44:45	~tiwesdaeg	I sure did
2020-06-08 16:45:13	~tiwesdaeg	also, I found out that netbsd's native make compiles kristall just fine and with less warnings
2020-06-08 16:45:41	xj9	yes i prefer FORTH or scheme for production uses
2020-06-08 16:45:47	~tiwesdaeg	I really need to make a kristall.desktop
2020-06-08 16:45:58	xj9	OCaml when the situation calls for it
2020-06-08 16:46:09	companion_cube	you laugh, but I use OCaml in production :D
2020-06-08 16:46:14	~tiwesdaeg	fortran or die
2020-06-08 16:46:27	xj9	i'm not laughing, i actually like ocaml 🙂
2020-06-08 16:46:28	companion_cube	(and the packaging is also painful :()
2020-06-08 16:46:39	~tiwesdaeg	I actually learned fortran in school in the mid 90's
2020-06-08 16:46:43	xj9	packaging is painful.
2020-06-08 16:46:56	companion_cube	rust has an ok story there, imho
2020-06-08 16:47:17	~tiwesdaeg	I always feel like I have to beat up rust programs to get them to compile
2020-06-08 16:47:18	xj9	i'm actually impressed with cargo, even if rust itself is too complex for my taste
2020-06-08 16:47:46	xj9	it was nice at first, but they kept adding things and i got tired of it
2020-06-08 16:48:57	companion_cube	what did they add, really?
2020-06-08 16:49:08	companion_cube	I can only see async/await support as a major post 1.0 feature
2020-06-08 16:49:43	xj9	i don't remember, this was like four or five years ago
2020-06-08 16:50:00	companion_cube	hu, so around 1.0 then?
2020-06-08 16:50:26	xj9	yeah 2015 rust doesn't compile anymore
2020-06-08 16:50:39	companion_cube	it should if you have `edition="2015"`
2020-06-08 16:50:50	xj9	things i don't care to learn
2020-06-08 16:51:28	companion_cube	afaik code from 2015, post 1.0, should still compile
2020-06-08 16:51:38	xq	hmm... plan for train home: implement a lot of UX smaller features
2020-06-08 16:51:41	xq	then, implement finger
2020-06-08 16:51:43	xq	then, be awesome :D
2020-06-08 16:51:47	xj9	nice
2020-06-08 16:51:47	companion_cube	(except if it was relying on bugs of the borrow checker)
2020-06-08 16:52:20	xj9	the project was a coreutils implementation in rust, nothing really complex
2020-06-08 16:52:54	xj9	i abandoned it, but my friend had to fix a bunch of stuff to get it workong on modern rust
2020-06-08 16:53:02	companion_cube	url? :D
2020-06-08 16:53:18	xj9	let me see if i can find it
2020-06-08 16:54:49	xj9	can't find my friends fork, but here's the repo i have https://git.sunshinegardens.org/~xj9/rust-coreutils
2020-06-08 16:55:31	xj9	the git log says my memory betrayed me
2020-06-08 17:00:45	companion_cube	builds for me, indeed
2020-06-08 17:16:56	@julienxx	tiwesdaeg: were you able to run aerc on OpenBSD? It compiles but the wizard fails for me
2020-06-08 17:17:29	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't had a chance to on openbsd
2020-06-08 17:17:39	~tiwesdaeg	On netbsd the wizard failed once
2020-06-08 17:18:02	~tiwesdaeg	Then worked, but I could never get it to actually receive mail
2020-06-08 17:47:37	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 17:47:41	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 17:51:54	~tiwesdaeg	attack of the lukees
2020-06-08 17:52:38	makeworld	tomasino: Did you get it to work? Seems like t tilde.black is still down
2020-06-08 18:12:29	lukee_	my client seems to show two entries for this channel - I can try to remove one
2020-06-08 18:13:17	@tomasino	It's down?
2020-06-08 18:13:19	xq	is int80h active in IRC?
2020-06-08 18:13:25	@tomasino	That's not good
2020-06-08 18:13:29		lukee_ has left #gemini
2020-06-08 18:13:31	@tomasino	It shouldn't be down
2020-06-08 18:13:39	@tomasino	I won't be able to look at it tonight
2020-06-08 18:16:26	makeworld	Yep it's down I'm afraid
2020-06-08 18:32:51	@julienxx	Down since a few hours for me
2020-06-08 18:34:46	@julienxx	Haha looks like my server is down too
2020-06-08 18:35:15	acdw	somebody hacked all of geminispace
2020-06-08 18:35:25	acdw	must be that elite hacker 4chan
2020-06-08 18:35:35	xq	oh no
2020-06-08 18:35:36	xq	4chan!
2020-06-08 18:35:38	xq	*screams*
2020-06-08 18:35:39	tadzik	quick, call the president of anarchists!
2020-06-08 18:36:47	makeworld	Where' s the antifa CEO when you need them
2020-06-08 18:37:07	dkibi	lukee: iirc you asked me the other day if I wanted to add navigation to the labyrinth thing?
2020-06-08 18:37:13	tadzik	I heard you can reach them here: https://antifaheadoffice.tumblr.com/
2020-06-08 18:37:29	makeworld	They're on antifa.org actually
2020-06-08 18:38:03	tadzik	that's a good one
2020-06-08 18:38:14	dkibi	probably will not, this for me is really just a non-trival script to see how to do a cgi script (with some input). It's completely stateless i.e. it would regenerate the labyrinth on every step
2020-06-08 18:38:25	dkibi	that said I certainly want to do mor such experiments
2020-06-08 18:39:06	~tiwesdaeg	xq: kristall compiles on manjaro, but, you know, it's just pretty arch
2020-06-08 18:39:11	xq	:D
2020-06-08 18:39:13	xq	yeah
2020-06-08 18:39:32	~tiwesdaeg	needed only qt5-multimedia
2020-06-08 18:39:39	xq	i'll take notes
2020-06-08 18:39:42	~tiwesdaeg	every other package was installed already
2020-06-08 18:39:56	tadzik	you good people mention all these cool projects but I can't find them on gus.guru :(
2020-06-08 18:40:11	~tiwesdaeg	this is a fairly new install, so I don't think I added qt5
2020-06-08 18:40:19	~tiwesdaeg	it's the xfce version
2020-06-08 18:40:20	xq	tadzik: i think my website isn't there yet
2020-06-08 18:40:28	~tiwesdaeg	tadzik: mailing list
2020-06-08 18:40:29	makeworld	Just submit it
2020-06-08 18:40:35	acdw	oh xq: I was able to compile kristall on Void, but I had to specify QT_SELECT=5
2020-06-08 18:40:54	~tiwesdaeg	acdw: was that with qmake?
2020-06-08 18:40:56	makeworld	xq: You can add your site to GUS through an input on the site
2020-06-08 18:41:07	acdw	yes. Though I ran it through `make QT_SELECT=5`
2020-06-08 18:41:13	acdw	in the repo folder
2020-06-08 18:41:28	tadzik	tiwesdaeg: yeah, I'm there now :) But it'd still be useful to be able to look stuff up when it comes up
2020-06-08 18:41:49	tadzik	I can of course find it with duckduckgo or something, but the more dogfooding the better I think:)
2020-06-08 18:42:00	xq	acdw: thanks for the info! build hints++
2020-06-08 18:42:18	~tiwesdaeg	a lot of it isn't available through web searches
2020-06-08 18:42:50	xq	new feature:
2020-06-08 18:42:51	xq	https://mq32.de/public/b7abc3773123177942386dea9a8326e5ef6adca4.png
2020-06-08 18:43:03	xq	https://mq32.de/public/ce3b9e3a99ef616cd9f5c42ef3023645db4e3daf.png
2020-06-08 18:43:05	xq	finger is now supported
2020-06-08 18:43:19	tadzik	nice :)
2020-06-08 18:43:32	xq	5 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 4091ms
2020-06-08 18:43:33	xq	LOL
2020-06-08 18:43:37	xq	#justMobileThings
2020-06-08 18:44:45	acdw	xq: :)
2020-06-08 18:45:14	acdw	also xq: where did you find documentation on finger? I'd like to do the same for bollux, hop on that train
2020-06-08 18:45:25	xq	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1288
2020-06-08 18:45:32	xq	RFC all the things!
2020-06-08 18:45:50	xq	also, client side finger is pretty much just … "send username or nothing, then CR LF, then wait for response"
2020-06-08 18:47:20	acdw	:D
2020-06-08 18:47:25	xq	i wonder if i should implement favicon support… there were some discussions on the ML about favicon.txt and favicon.ico
2020-06-08 18:48:10	acdw	i've been wondering the same. since it's an emoji ... but also it's an extra network request, which is now verboten
2020-06-08 18:48:19	acdw	maybe a configurable, default false?
2020-06-08 18:48:27	xq	yep, that's the plan
2020-06-08 18:48:36	xq	ask once a day when you visit the site first
2020-06-08 18:48:38	acdw	also your finger interface looks great
2020-06-08 18:48:46	xq	no, it doesn't ! :D
2020-06-08 18:48:50	xq	has to be fixed-size :D
2020-06-08 18:48:54	lukee	dkibi: no problem, I just thought it would be an interesting thought experiment to see if it could be done
2020-06-08 18:48:56	acdw	haha *I* like it :D
2020-06-08 18:49:10	acdw	oh right, that could maybe help
2020-06-08 18:49:53	xq	and thanks :)
2020-06-08 18:51:02	xq	fixed
2020-06-08 18:51:14	lukee	you could have something like endpoint?seed=ABC&x=10&y=20&nextx=11&nexty=20
2020-06-08 18:51:59	lukee	it would show a blob on the maze where you were and you would have to move the blob through the maze without hitting the wall
2020-06-08 18:52:21	lukee	still a bit pointless activity - why would anyone do this? :-)
2020-06-08 18:52:41	xq	now if i implement FTP support… i have all the procotols i know or ever heard of :D
2020-06-08 18:53:46	lukee	about the favicon.txt and .ico - I think these are nice optional ideas, however it would be better if it is site specific not just for the whole domain
2020-06-08 18:54:21	lukee	there might be a number of users on the same domain - should they all have the same favicon?
2020-06-08 18:55:08	dkibi	I would like to do some ascii art dungeon crawler type thing
2020-06-08 18:55:11	lukee	perhaps one approach is to look for favicon in all parent folders up to the top of the path
2020-06-08 18:55:11	dkibi	if time allows
2020-06-08 18:56:02	lukee	@dkibi - it would be a neat demonstration of what is possible in gemini
2020-06-08 18:56:59	lukee	still it would be rather slow to move link by link through the space
2020-06-08 18:58:40	acdw	a text-based adventure would be better, I think -- like a choose-your-own adventure or an interactive fiction
2020-06-08 18:58:44	dkibi	yeah I think i lot's of exploration is involved, it wouldn't work.
2020-06-08 18:58:57	dkibi	yeah I also thought about that ^^
2020-06-08 18:59:03	lukee	that would work - a classic application of hypertext
2020-06-08 18:59:26	dkibi	In school I wasted way too much time in those browser games
2020-06-08 19:00:09	lukee	I remember getting hooked on the book versions of those
2020-06-08 19:00:23	acdw	oh they're great!
2020-06-08 19:00:24	lukee	turn to page 83 if you attack the troll
2020-06-08 19:00:26	dkibi	that would run in the background and have long move times and everything is presented on static pages. I think such a thing could also work well with gemini
2020-06-08 19:01:09	dkibi	there is this scripting language called ink from the inkle people: https://www.inklestudios.com/ink/
2020-06-08 19:01:23	acdw	For just a choose-your-own adventure, you wouldn't even need a special server, just a lot of pages
2020-06-08 19:01:31	acdw	I'll try to port mine over today
2020-06-08 19:01:36	acdw	for a proof-of-concept
2020-06-08 19:01:39	dkibi	I wonder if one could take only the core components and build a tiny layer above text/gemini that compiles to a couple of pages
2020-06-08 19:02:11	lukee	it depends if you need to hold any player state - for example their life credits
2020-06-08 19:02:12	acdw	the one I wrote I did by hand --- the hardest part is keeping the nodes straight.
2020-06-08 19:02:25	acdw	oh yes well state does make things more complex!
2020-06-08 19:02:36	lukee	there is always the URL query
2020-06-08 19:02:40	acdw	that'd need a server -- unless it was part of the query. lol
2020-06-08 19:02:46	acdw	jinx
2020-06-08 19:03:06	acdw	oh but it'd still need to be server-side
2020-06-08 19:03:58	lukee	if it was just choices, you could compile it to a static site
2020-06-08 19:04:53	acdw	yep! That's easiest
2020-06-08 19:10:21	lukee	inkle looks interesting. Might be quite a bit of work to build a gemini front end on top of it
2020-06-08 19:12:01	dkibi	it's very nice, the biggest problem is that the tooling is quite restricted, there is the C# implementation (mostly for unity) and a javascript one
2020-06-08 19:12:12	lukee	For a simpley hypertext I think you just need a simple graph editor and then export in a standard format and then generate the gmi files from that
2020-06-08 19:12:53	lukee	you could always run javascript on the server - might work
2020-06-08 19:13:12	lukee	it might be the first node.js gemini server?
2020-06-08 19:15:03	acdw	lololoo
2020-06-08 19:15:15	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 19:15:22	companion_cube	s/node.js/deno/, keep up with the modern times!
2020-06-08 19:15:54	lukee	apparently it does run on node.js
2020-06-08 19:15:55	lukee	https://github.com/y-lohse/inkjs
2020-06-08 19:16:21	lukee	tweak the back end a bit and emit gemini not html
2020-06-08 19:18:22	dkibi	I think the js api just gives you strings anyway
2020-06-08 19:18:50	lukee	yeah maybe its a lot of work
2020-06-08 19:19:13	lukee	there might be simpler engines out there that just emit html that could be more easily adapted
2020-06-08 19:20:14	dkibi	there is also twine, but I think that's strongly oriented towards having clickable words
2020-06-08 19:20:26	@julienxx	I have two CYOA games on Gemini gemini://typed-hole.org/cyoa/underground and gemini://typed-hole.org/cyoa2/pyramid.gemini
2020-06-08 19:21:35	lukee	surely you can just use twine in a way that has a seperate line for the links?
2020-06-08 19:22:13		companion_cube has left #gemini
2020-06-08 19:22:25	lukee	I'm just guessing - never tried it
2020-06-08 19:25:21		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-08 19:28:29	lukee	I found this with a little googling
2020-06-08 19:28:30	lukee	https://itsfoss.com/create-interactive-fiction/
2020-06-08 19:28:34	lukee	mentions a few engines
2020-06-08 19:29:00	lukee	There is Quest which has a mode that you have the text then the choices at the bottom
2020-06-08 19:29:09	lukee	that might map to gemini quite nicely
2020-06-08 19:29:28	lukee	you can export as XML, so you could parse that and generate a gemini site. Maybe
2020-06-08 19:30:31	lukee	Seems you could generate a site similar to that on julienxx's site
2020-06-08 19:36:49	dkibi	julienxx: that ascii art map of france is gorgous
2020-06-08 19:45:53	~tiwesdaeg	xq: where are the kristall config files at?
2020-06-08 19:46:17	~tiwesdaeg	nevermind, found it
2020-06-08 19:47:56	xq	should follow XDG on *nix
2020-06-08 19:48:04	xq	but i trust Qt to do that right actually :D
2020-06-08 19:50:27	~tiwesdaeg	it's you calling it ~/.config/xqTechnologies that is throwing me off
2020-06-08 19:50:39	~tiwesdaeg	I keep looking for ~/.config/kristall
2020-06-08 19:51:01	~tiwesdaeg	I made a .desktop file for it
2020-06-08 19:51:18	~tiwesdaeg	I took your svg of the gem and converted it to png
2020-06-08 19:52:13		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 19:59:09	xq	yeah, Qt requires a company name :D
2020-06-08 19:59:19	xq	ah, so it's you who did the PR?
2020-06-08 19:59:29	xq	is it ready to use?
2020-06-08 20:03:35	xq	i think it was styan who told me that my server doesn't do good TLS?
2020-06-08 20:03:46	xq	i now know how to fix that :)
2020-06-08 20:23:04	lukee	New spec has quotation marks
2020-06-08 20:23:21	lukee	like in emails etc line begins >
2020-06-08 20:23:31	lukee	I have an implementation of that
2020-06-08 20:23:33	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/AB4ziDV
2020-06-08 20:23:50	lukee	in GemiNaut
2020-06-08 20:23:53	lukee	for next build
2020-06-08 20:25:29	xq	good call!
2020-06-08 20:29:44	xq	thanks tiwesdaeg for the desktop file! :)
2020-06-08 20:30:06	~tiwesdaeg	Did you want a copy?
2020-06-08 20:30:18	lukee	maybe acdw will recognise the screenshot ;-)
2020-06-08 20:31:05	xq	oh
2020-06-08 20:31:10	xq	so the GitHub PR wasn't you? :D
2020-06-08 20:31:19	xq	there was a PR with a desktop file *grin*
2020-06-08 20:31:55	xq	i can now click finger/gopher/gemini links and they open with kristall
2020-06-08 20:31:58	xq	which is nice
2020-06-08 20:32:33	lukee	thats a nice feature - involves some low level registry tweaking in windows
2020-06-08 20:33:54	xq	yeah, it's only working on linux atm
2020-06-08 20:33:56	~tiwesdaeg	Nope, I have to try really hard to make pull requests
2020-06-08 20:34:11	xq	:D
2020-06-08 20:36:19	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 20:41:23	acdw	lukee: :O :D awesome shot!
2020-06-08 20:41:25	tastytea	xq: The PR was from me. :-)
2020-06-08 20:41:47	xq	well. could've guessed/searched for the name here m(
2020-06-08 20:41:48	xq	thanks!
2020-06-08 20:43:00	acdw	does that desktop file work for firefox out of the box, or do I have to do something?
2020-06-08 20:43:03	acdw	I think I have to do something
2020-06-08 20:44:08	acdw	also xq: I am so jealous of your amazing TOC generation and navigation pane.
2020-06-08 20:44:20	acdw	I think if I wanted to do that in bollux I'd have to write my own pager in bash
2020-06-08 20:44:33	xq	*blushes*
2020-06-08 20:45:04	xq	i linked the desktop file to ~/.local/share/applications/kristall.desktop
2020-06-08 20:45:40	tastytea	acdw: The desktop file should work out of the box, if it is in one of the right directories.
2020-06-08 20:46:32	acdw	okay cool!
2020-06-08 20:46:51	xq	lukee: https://mq32.de/public/a96332d9dfba1b107a69354bafa410c6b1b12b3d.png
2020-06-08 20:47:01	lukee	acdw: seeing as you wrote a post about the new spec feature, you did the work of making a test case for us all
2020-06-08 20:47:02	xq	i now have ultra-ugly block quotes :D
2020-06-08 20:47:31	acdw	hahaha -- though really mozz did a better job
2020-06-08 20:47:51	acdw	b/c they actually talked about the spec: gemini://mozz.us/journal/2020-06-08.gmi
2020-06-08 20:48:56	lukee	xq: eek - i hope users can change that colour :)
2020-06-08 20:49:12	xq	nope, not atm :D
2020-06-08 20:49:14	acdw	no way it's perfect :P
2020-06-08 20:49:20	xq	just needed a color to test ^^
2020-06-08 20:50:47	lukee	my first version had bright yellow for testing ;)
2020-06-08 20:51:10	lukee	here is the rendering of the mozz.us page
2020-06-08 20:51:11	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/OBbg6RK
2020-06-08 20:58:42	xq	perfection, i created the CIA block quote mode: https://mq32.de/public/2d2c37233304d097be7b5c53332b9ddf5950d48c.png
2020-06-08 20:59:00	lukee	ha ha
2020-06-08 21:00:23	xq	styling seems to work though
2020-06-08 21:00:28	xq	new default color: "black"
2020-06-08 21:00:34	xq	tilde.black approves
2020-06-08 21:08:52	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 21:26:45		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 21:28:18		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-08 21:36:22	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 21:44:51	@tomasino	tilde.black is back online
2020-06-08 21:45:08	@tomasino	i dunno what's up with tab boys, but i'll just keep the server truckin' along for now
2020-06-08 21:46:44	styan	xq: I was wrong about why libtls did not like your site.  I need to add `-T ciphers=legacy' not `-T protocols=legacy' to nc(1) to be able to connect to it.  I guess that shows you how much I know about TLS. :-)
2020-06-08 21:47:43	xq	haha, same here :D
2020-06-08 21:47:56	xq	i will patch up a newer OpenSSL version
2020-06-08 21:48:02	xq	which supports the correct funtions
2020-06-08 21:48:27	styan	It might(?) be the key type?
2020-06-08 21:50:02	styan	tomasino: I get tabs from both tilde.black and cosmic.voyage, so I guess it is just Jetforce.
2020-06-08 21:50:21	xq	nah, it's just that i don't enforce TLS 1.2…
2020-06-08 21:50:52	styan	makeworld: I also get a tab from your site :-)
2020-06-08 21:51:37	styan	xq: I meant that I was wrong about it being the TLS version, it was actually the cipher version.
2020-06-08 21:51:45	@tomasino	Oh good
2020-06-08 21:51:55	xq	ah, well
2020-06-08 21:54:47		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-08 21:55:24		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-08 22:01:23	styan	xq: Okay, I think I have it.  `TLS_CIPHERS_DEFAULT' is "TLSv1.3:TLSv1.2+AEAD+ECDHE:TLSv1.2+AEAD+DHE", and your server is using "AES256-GCM-SHA384", which is apparently covered by `TLS_CIPHERS_COMPAT' which is "HIGH:!aNULL".  What all of the extra letters mean, I do not know, but `compat' seems better than `legacy' :-)
2020-06-08 22:02:07	xq	^^
2020-06-08 22:02:09	xq	yeah, true
2020-06-08 22:29:40		erin has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-08 22:29:46	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 22:33:36	xq	tastytea: can you verify that the latest master does not have broken navigation anymore?
2020-06-08 22:35:48	tastytea	xq: Yep, looks good now.
2020-06-08 22:35:58	xq	neat!
2020-06-08 22:36:29	xq	Version 0.2 is a huge update :D
2020-06-08 22:36:34	⚡	xq has just taken a look at the release notes
2020-06-08 22:57:29	tastytea	xq: Can you make the prefix configurable in the build recipe? I'd like to install into /usr/ instead of /opt/kristall/.
2020-06-08 22:57:43	xq	it should be already
2020-06-08 22:57:57	xq	qmake should provide this, i call a friendly RTFM
2020-06-08 22:58:14	xq	not because i don't want to help, but because it'#s 1:00 am and i really should get some sleep zzz
2020-06-08 22:59:35	xq	have added a lot of new features today and improved pretty much everything
2020-06-08 22:59:42	xq	also "f1" is a thing now :D
2020-06-08 23:35:20		erin has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-08 23:37:26	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-06-08 23:56:52	tastytea	The manual is not very detailed, unfortunately. I couldn't find out how to change target.path but sed works well enough. :-)
2020-06-09 01:43:22	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 03:17:08		numilani_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-09 03:17:53	▬▬▶	numilani_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 04:32:50		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-09 04:34:18	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 06:26:45	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 06:26:53		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-09 07:39:08	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 08:03:28		numilani_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-09 08:04:33	▬▬▶	numilani_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 08:07:06	xq	tastytea: yea, i'm not really happy with qmake as well, but cmake is even worse
2020-06-09 08:39:43		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-09 08:58:42	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 09:02:49	epoch	I figure message/gemini would be an appropriate mime-type for a gemini response that includes the response header?
2020-06-09 09:03:05	epoch	(if not, I'm using it anyway for my own playing)
2020-06-09 09:04:59	epoch	I'm thinking my 2-script client should actually get split into 3.
2020-06-09 09:06:11	epoch	one does the request and launches off the message/gemini handler on the response, which the launches the handler for content of the response (or goes back to the requester if type 10 or 30 or whatever)
2020-06-09 09:08:32	xq	epoch, what do you want to do?
2020-06-09 09:10:48	epoch	store cached whole responses and have a type-label for them that keeps me from attempting to open them as the type of the response body
2020-06-09 09:11:13	epoch	I'm thinking I might just not store the header
2020-06-09 09:11:22	epoch	or put the header into the filename
2020-06-09 09:11:29	epoch	not sure yet.
2020-06-09 09:12:17	epoch	in the filename seems like the wrong spot.
2020-06-09 09:14:31	xq	why not store the full response?
2020-06-09 09:14:42	xq	first line is mime type, the rest is the file itself
2020-06-09 09:15:45	epoch	that's what I'm doing right now.
2020-06-09 09:16:03	epoch	but I also want to be able to pass only the response body to another program
2020-06-09 09:16:08	epoch	so I'll have to make two copies?
2020-06-09 09:16:16	epoch	which I guess makes sense.
2020-06-09 09:16:30	epoch	one is "gemini cache" and the other is "downloaded files"
2020-06-09 09:17:53	epoch	I have a mime-type script that uses extended file attributes for seeing what the user-defined mime-type override is.
2020-06-09 09:18:22	epoch	so, I'll probably have the message/gemini handler set that extended file attribute in the downloaded file.
2020-06-09 09:19:10	xq	epoch: "head -n-1" ? :D
2020-06-09 09:19:50	epoch	yeah, that's how I'd extract it from the message/gemini file
2020-06-09 09:20:02	xq	^^
2020-06-09 09:20:11	epoch	but I'd still want the raw file contents in its own file and have the type associated with that file.
2020-06-09 09:20:28	epoch	I'm wanting to be able to apply these types of scripts to more than just gemini though
2020-06-09 09:20:51	xq	hm
2020-06-09 09:21:03	xq	then i think it's needed to have the files duplicated
2020-06-09 09:21:11	xq	or you can create another database
2020-06-09 09:21:17	xq	which uses one line per file with the mime type
2020-06-09 09:21:19	xq	like
2020-06-09 09:21:32	xq	and origin url
2020-06-09 09:25:07	epoch	I have a uriescaped origin URL used as the name of the cached message/gemini files
2020-06-09 09:26:13	epoch	which makes it easier to cache any type of response, but the type of the response also needs to be stored with the cache file somewhere.
2020-06-09 09:26:19	epoch	right now I'm just using subdirs
2020-06-09 09:28:48	epoch	looks like xdg has "origin url" stored in files
2020-06-09 09:29:09	epoch	just ran getfattr -d * in my home dir
2020-06-09 09:29:17	epoch	(debian package attr)
2020-06-09 09:30:18	epoch	that's probably something firefox does?
2020-06-09 09:41:11	epoch	hrm. my http server is saying "this is text/plain" but firefox insists it is a jpeg.
2020-06-09 09:41:26	⚡	epoch looks for the mime-sniffing toggle
2020-06-09 09:43:23	⚡	epoch adds X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff to HTTP server...
2020-06-09 09:43:29	epoch	and I'm offtopic it seems.
2020-06-09 12:05:27		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-09 12:15:14	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 12:50:34	~tiwesdaeg	xq: text files over gopher protocol are not following the theme right
2020-06-09 12:51:08	~tiwesdaeg	the background is the correct color, but the text doesn't use the default color
2020-06-09 12:51:50	~tiwesdaeg	I am using a dark theme and I get dark grey for the font color of a txt file with the gopher protocol
2020-06-09 12:52:36	~tiwesdaeg	actually, I just tested gemini and it is doing the same with
2020-06-09 12:53:19	~tiwesdaeg	I'm also showing the same for .md files
2020-06-09 12:54:25		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-09 13:10:10	julienxx_	I'm not a native english speaker, how do you pronounce it? jeh·muh·nai or jeh-me-nee?
2020-06-09 13:10:29	bard	the first one
2020-06-09 13:10:58	julienxx_	I use the latter in my head
2020-06-09 13:12:02		xq has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-09 13:21:06	~tiwesdaeg	 how did the greeks pronounce it?
2020-06-09 13:24:28	ℹ 	julienxx_ is now known as julienxx
2020-06-09 13:24:28	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-09 13:24:45	@tomasino	ˈdʒɛm əˌnaɪ
2020-06-09 13:24:57	@tomasino	aka, the first option
2020-06-09 13:30:01	@julienxx	I had doubt, from http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000566.html "From memory, most transmissions to and from the Gemini capsules used the "Gemin-ee" pronunciation, perhaps because it was quicker to say "Gemin-ee 4, get back in!" than "Gemin-eye 4, get back in!""
2020-06-09 13:37:10	~tiwesdaeg	I've never heard it spoken gemin-ee
2020-06-09 13:37:23	~tiwesdaeg	it's just one of those words
2020-06-09 13:38:15	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, english is full of words with different pronunciations based on regional dialects
2020-06-09 13:39:04	wgreenhouse	classical Latin would prob be closest to geh-me-nee but we love to mispronounce our Latin words in English
2020-06-09 13:45:12	@tomasino	pronouncing it like latin would be quite silly for a greek word, but yeah... english is great at butchering stuff
2020-06-09 14:31:27	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 15:01:54	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 15:03:56	⚡	tiwesdaeg pokes xq
2020-06-09 15:04:15	xq	whooo \o/
2020-06-09 15:04:18	xq	my server is back and online
2020-06-09 15:04:25	xq	and another VPS ordered, fuck Strato
2020-06-09 15:04:33	~tiwesdaeg	do you have the chatlogs?
2020-06-09 15:04:38	xq	sadly, not
2020-06-09 15:04:49	~tiwesdaeg	I found another issue with kristall
2020-06-09 15:04:55	xq	oh, what is it?
2020-06-09 15:05:06	~tiwesdaeg	.txt and.md and I am guessing anything that is simple text
2020-06-09 15:05:17	~tiwesdaeg	the font color is not following the theme
2020-06-09 15:05:25	xq	oh, thanks :)
2020-06-09 15:05:43	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using a dark background and I get dark grey text
2020-06-09 15:05:49	xq	i wanted to do improved markdown support anyways
2020-06-09 15:05:59	~tiwesdaeg	markdown redndering would be cool
2020-06-09 15:06:04	xq	right now i'm using the Qt builtin one and i'm not really happy with that
2020-06-09 15:06:11	xq	way too less control
2020-06-09 15:06:22	xq	 and it's html-based which is stupid for Kristall, which uses rich text documents
2020-06-09 15:06:28	~tiwesdaeg	is it supposed to render markdown right now?
2020-06-09 15:06:37	xq	yeah
2020-06-09 15:06:42	~tiwesdaeg	I'm on my openbsd system here at work and it was not
2020-06-09 15:06:45	xq	but it depends if your qt supports markdown or not
2020-06-09 15:06:54	xq	and i want ot have reliable MD rendering
2020-06-09 15:07:11	~tiwesdaeg	ahhh
2020-06-09 15:08:12	~tiwesdaeg	will it compile without support if it doesn't find that specific dependency ?
2020-06-09 15:08:27	~tiwesdaeg	I should see if there is a separate package
2020-06-09 15:11:04	xq	yes it does!
2020-06-09 15:11:14	xq	i made sure that it doesn't break when not having markdown
2020-06-09 15:11:20	xq	will do the same for the multimedia packages
2020-06-09 15:11:32	xq	because i know that some people don't want those features included
2020-06-09 15:11:55	~tiwesdaeg	I did have that package
2020-06-09 15:12:34	xq	so you can watch videos and listen to mp3 in kristall! :)
2020-06-09 15:14:57	~tiwesdaeg	I have no sound on here!
2020-06-09 15:19:14	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not even sure where markdown support is coming from
2020-06-09 15:19:37	~tiwesdaeg	everything I search turns up qt based markdown viewers/editors
2020-06-09 15:22:52	xq	i think it's the qt version…
2020-06-09 15:22:53	xq	not sure
2020-06-09 15:23:21	xq	and as said: i want to improve markdown supports anyways
2020-06-09 15:25:26	~tiwesdaeg	write your own renderer?
2020-06-09 15:27:45	xq	use another library
2020-06-09 15:27:56	xq	Qt as a QTextDocument which i use for rendering all the text
2020-06-09 15:28:06	xq	but parsing the markdown is somehow intransparent
2020-06-09 15:28:10	xq	and how styles apply even more
2020-06-09 15:57:43	~tiwesdaeg	ugh, work is taking up all of my gemini time today
2020-06-09 16:02:39	xq	noooo
2020-06-09 16:25:19	xq	hm, i think i'll take the CMark library
2020-06-09 16:25:33	xq	which is the reference implementation for CommonMark
2020-06-09 16:48:48	wangofett	CommonMark FTW
2020-06-09 17:03:56	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I like commonmark
2020-06-09 17:11:38	@tomasino	AristocratScrawl FTW
2020-06-09 17:24:25	xq	sadly, commonmark is quite insane
2020-06-09 17:24:46	xq	but it's the "smallest common denominator"
2020-06-09 18:43:12	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 18:43:17	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 18:43:24		lukee_ has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-09 18:56:50	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 18:57:48	solderpunk	Howdy, Geminauts!
2020-06-09 18:58:11	xj9	o/
2020-06-09 18:58:50	@tomasino	hey solderpunk 
2020-06-09 18:58:55	@tomasino	i was just gonna ping you
2020-06-09 18:59:09	@tomasino	I'm prepping notes to do a "What is Gemini" video tonight
2020-06-09 18:59:19	solderpunk	Oh, wow, fantastic!
2020-06-09 18:59:25	@tomasino	wanted to run the topics by you and see if you think I should add anything
2020-06-09 18:59:26	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200609-what-is-gemini.gmi
2020-06-09 18:59:37	solderpunk	So glad that *other people* are doing that kind of stuff for me :p
2020-06-09 19:01:18	solderpunk	What's your target audience?
2020-06-09 19:01:48	@tomasino	moderately technical people
2020-06-09 19:02:14	@tomasino	i share on toobnix/peertube, but i'll also post on my youtube channel. I don't have mayn followers there, though
2020-06-09 19:02:43	cmccabe	holy moly it's solderpunk
2020-06-09 19:02:45	solderpunk	So the "What makes it different?" section is aimed mostly at people whose default is the web?
2020-06-09 19:02:50	solderpunk	Holy moly, it's cmccabe!
2020-06-09 19:03:10	@tomasino	yep!
2020-06-09 19:03:18	solderpunk	I'm, uhh, definitely not goofing around on IRC instead of completing your pubnix admin interview...
2020-06-09 19:03:33	@tomasino	but the "sane markup" is aimed at gopher people too
2020-06-09 19:03:36	cmccabe	heh. i'm also not goofing around on irc instead of working
2020-06-09 19:03:38	solderpunk	Fair enough.
2020-06-09 19:03:46	@tomasino	oooh, you get interviewed
2020-06-09 19:03:49	⚡	tomasino pouts
2020-06-09 19:03:58	solderpunk	Maybe emphasise DIYability, then?
2020-06-09 19:03:59	cmccabe	you're next, tomasino.
2020-06-09 19:04:03	@tomasino	:D!!!
2020-06-09 19:04:11	@tomasino	DIY, yes yes
2020-06-09 19:04:29	solderpunk	Don't tell him that, now I can't make him beg me to use him as my answer to the last question (which is "who should I interview next?").
2020-06-09 19:04:43	@tomasino	me me me!
2020-06-09 19:05:29	solderpunk	I really should invest the time to come up with a really good, compact set of "propaganda points" for stuff like this.
2020-06-09 19:05:51	@tomasino	well, i'll give you 30min of material soon to draw from
2020-06-09 19:06:24	solderpunk	Awesome.
2020-06-09 19:06:41	@tomasino	oh, my TLS coverage is gonna be.... basic
2020-06-09 19:06:52	@tomasino	that's the part of all this i don't really get beyond the basics
2020-06-09 19:07:21	solderpunk	Ah, so it's no good me asking you for an off-the-cuff opinion on the client certificate thing?
2020-06-09 19:07:30	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-09 19:07:46	@tomasino	you'll notice how i've been wonderfully silent on all the crypto talk?
2020-06-09 19:08:05	@tomasino	i'll put it this way...
2020-06-09 19:08:16	@tomasino	i only understand tor's routing system from a high level
2020-06-09 19:08:24	@tomasino	if i need to "do" anything to make that work i wouldn't
2020-06-09 19:08:39	@tomasino	but since there's a button i can press to trigger a new identity, i use it when moving from site to site
2020-06-09 19:08:58	@tomasino	if client certs get to a point where their purpose is transparent to me as a user, i'll use it
2020-06-09 19:09:11	@tomasino	but i have no idea how to "do" anything related to those
2020-06-09 19:09:42	solderpunk	Fair enough.
2020-06-09 19:10:26	@tomasino	in other news, you totally blindsided me with the > addition
2020-06-09 19:10:34	xq	hey solderpunk
2020-06-09 19:10:36	solderpunk	Oh?
2020-06-09 19:10:40	solderpunk	Hey xq
2020-06-09 19:10:48	@tomasino	yeah, i thought you had been a hard no on quotes back in the earlier conversation
2020-06-09 19:11:09	@tomasino	i'm already using it now: gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200602-re-replies.gmi
2020-06-09 19:11:30	solderpunk	I was a hard no on how they were originally proposed, which was infinitely nestable.
2020-06-09 19:11:39	@tomasino	gotcha
2020-06-09 19:11:45	@tomasino	well this is nice and simple
2020-06-09 19:12:01	solderpunk	I mean, I still don't think it's a super important thing to have, but multiple people were asking for it and it does no harm.
2020-06-09 19:12:02	@tomasino	i really like how you rendered it in av98
2020-06-09 19:12:23	@tomasino	true true. Before i had the > i just had teh block wrapped in quotes
2020-06-09 19:12:41	solderpunk	I'm pretty bad at saying "no", really, which is a terrible trait for a BDFN to have :p
2020-06-09 19:13:06	@tomasino	you're doing great
2020-06-09 19:13:14	@tomasino	no complaints here
2020-06-09 19:13:15	solderpunk	I am so ready to just have the thing be finished, though!
2020-06-09 19:13:16	xq	solderpunk: you make a pretty good impression as BDFN to me
2020-06-09 19:13:24	solderpunk	So we can just get on with building cool stuff.
2020-06-09 19:13:40	@tomasino	building cool stuff, like an RSS reader for CAPCOM
2020-06-09 19:13:42	@tomasino	;)
2020-06-09 19:13:42	xq	the next release cycle of Kristall is going to focus on client certificates
2020-06-09 19:14:16	solderpunk	That will probably be super easy, actually, CAPCOM just uses the Universal Feed Parser which handles Atom and RSS.
2020-06-09 19:14:30	solderpunk	xq, how are you feeling about that task?
2020-06-09 19:14:30	@tomasino	oh nice
2020-06-09 19:14:43	xq	solderpunk: still thinking about how to do it
2020-06-09 19:15:10	xq	i'm still kinda waiting on your decisions, but i'm happy to discuss the topic
2020-06-09 19:15:24	~tiwesdaeg	 solderpunk! did you ever get me email with the image?
2020-06-09 19:15:27	⚡	tomasino gets out of the way while whispering "alt text...."
2020-06-09 19:15:35	xq	plan right now is to be a bit off-spec ^^
2020-06-09 19:15:43	xq	```alt what?
2020-06-09 19:15:44	solderpunk	Are you planning to add it because you feel like you at least vaguely understand what it's about and think it's cool, or are you just feeling an completionist obligation to do it?
2020-06-09 19:15:59	@tomasino	xq++
2020-06-09 19:16:06	solderpunk	Hahah, literally alt-text and simplifying (but probably not removing) client certs are literally wall I wan to do before freezing again.
2020-06-09 19:16:24	xq	i think i deeply understand your idea and your ways of thinking
2020-06-09 19:16:34	solderpunk	And I'm strongly leaning toward a bare-minimum response on the alt text thing and encouraing people to maybe form a convention which is like a separate little side-spec.  I dunno
2020-06-09 19:16:35	xq	it's just waaaay too elegant to not use client certs for authentication
2020-06-09 19:16:38	solderpunk	tiwesdaeg, I did!
2020-06-09 19:16:44	solderpunk	I have tried replying to you twice.
2020-06-09 19:16:47	solderpunk	I keep getting bounces.
2020-06-09 19:16:49	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-06-09 19:16:51	solderpunk	I was hoping to bump into you here.
2020-06-09 19:16:54	~tiwesdaeg	weird
2020-06-09 19:17:05	~tiwesdaeg	I'll go look at email logs
2020-06-09 19:17:13	solderpunk	451 4.4.1 reply: read error from tilde.pink.
2020-06-09 19:17:13	solderpunk	<tiwesdaeg@tilde.pink>... Deferred: Connection reset by tilde.pink.
2020-06-09 19:17:13	solderpunk	Warning: message still undelivered after 18 hours
2020-06-09 19:17:13	solderpunk	Will keep trying until message is 5 days old
2020-06-09 19:17:25	solderpunk	A greylisting problem?
2020-06-09 19:17:29	~tiwesdaeg	I normally have no issue receiving email
2020-06-09 19:17:39	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not filtering anything on tilde.pink
2020-06-09 19:17:47	solderpunk	Hmm, that's weird, then.
2020-06-09 19:18:02	solderpunk	Anyway, I really loved the images you provided!  I appreciate the work you put into them.
2020-06-09 19:18:07	solderpunk	I tooted one :p
2020-06-09 19:18:12	~tiwesdaeg	did you have any changes you wanted?
2020-06-09 19:18:17	solderpunk	xq: glad you think so!
2020-06-09 19:18:46	~tiwesdaeg	it ended up being pretty easy to just redraw the gemini capsule
2020-06-09 19:18:48	solderpunk	It would be nice if the capsule image were rounder, to better match the sun, but I wasn't able to find a nice clean image that I thought was usable.
2020-06-09 19:18:59	solderpunk	At least the colours kind of match.
2020-06-09 19:19:11	~tiwesdaeg	one option would be to only use a portion of it
2020-06-09 19:19:18	xq	solderpunk: i'm really sad that the web doesn't use them… but gemini has a fresh start and is able to make client certs the "next best thing" in authentication
2020-06-09 19:19:35	~tiwesdaeg	the other is to give it some sort of background/field
2020-06-09 19:19:46	@tomasino	tor can use elliptic curve keys for auth now
2020-06-09 19:21:20	@tomasino	i have no idea _how_ yet, but it's something i'm exploring for ~black
2020-06-09 19:21:24	solderpunk	Hmm.  Like an orange circle with a capsule centred in it?
2020-06-09 19:21:47	solderpunk	xq: okay, great you are on board!  How are you planning to go slightly off-spec?
2020-06-09 19:22:05	xq	i think i'll go with your "planned" changes
2020-06-09 19:22:10	xq	and just make a cert pool in the client
2020-06-09 19:22:30	xq	each cert has a life span, and can be created persistent or "in-memory" for session work
2020-06-09 19:22:50	@ben	woah solderpunk on irc!!
2020-06-09 19:22:56	@ben	salutations!
2020-06-09 19:23:00	solderpunk	So you think the rough plan I sketched out in an email recently is an improvement over the current spec?
2020-06-09 19:23:06	solderpunk	Yes, it *does* happy!
2020-06-09 19:23:09	solderpunk	Err, happen
2020-06-09 19:23:16	solderpunk	Very rarely. :)
2020-06-09 19:23:21	solderpunk	And salutations to you, too.
2020-06-09 19:23:25	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm, getting some weird dovecot error, but that shouldn't cause it to ignore you
2020-06-09 19:23:33	@tomasino	tiwesdaeg: did you get my test email?
2020-06-09 19:23:41	@tomasino	i sent you one when solderpunk first mentioned the issue
2020-06-09 19:23:59	xq	solderpunk: yeah exactly. I'm trying to read all of those mails and have some highlights on stuff i need to read again
2020-06-09 19:24:00	solderpunk	Good Guy Tomasino!
2020-06-09 19:24:12	xq	i will only support one field in the cert (i think it's the Common Name field)
2020-06-09 19:24:23	@ben	the mailing list is a lot for me to keep up with :P
2020-06-09 19:24:33	@ben	are you testing tilde.pink mail tiwesdaeg ?
2020-06-09 19:24:37	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: not yet
2020-06-09 19:24:47	solderpunk	Yeah, the list is super exhausting.
2020-06-09 19:24:49	~tiwesdaeg	I'm getting everything from the list
2020-06-09 19:25:04	solderpunk	I can't wait to finalise the spec and resume a cyber mountain hermit lifestyle.
2020-06-09 19:25:14	xq	haha
2020-06-09 19:25:19	@ben	lol
2020-06-09 19:25:27	xq	btw, solderpunk: have you thought about gemini for automation?
2020-06-09 19:25:30	@tomasino	get back to finger work
2020-06-09 19:25:41	xq	i think a lot of systems could benefit from gemini instead of HTTP for stuff like REST
2020-06-09 19:25:46	@ben	Jun  9 15:25:34 tilde postfix/smtp[6287]: 1726F2E2062D: to=<tiwesdaeg@tilde.pink>, relay=tilde.pink[192.95.3.21]:25, delay=1.4, delays=0.26/0.01/1.1/0, dsn=4.4.2, status=deferred (lost connection with tilde.pink[192.95.3.21] while performing the EHLO handshake)
2020-06-09 19:25:55	@ben	oops sorry i should have /query'd that
2020-06-09 19:26:08	solderpunk	I definitely have, it's actually one of my motivations for wanting to make client certs a thing.
2020-06-09 19:26:16	solderpunk	Instead of API tokens or whatever the kids are passing around nowadays.
2020-06-09 19:26:17	xq	ah!
2020-06-09 19:26:18	xq	yep
2020-06-09 19:26:31	xq	that's why i was asking for an improved way to uploading data as well
2020-06-09 19:26:31	@ben	client certs seem like a much nicer way for auth than tokens
2020-06-09 19:26:49	xq	maybe i should write an RFC or something and make a POC implementation
2020-06-09 19:26:57	~tiwesdaeg	I hate mail servers
2020-06-09 19:26:58	xq	to see how well it works
2020-06-09 19:27:05	@tomasino	xq, hit up khuxkm if you are
2020-06-09 19:27:08	xq	tiwesdaeg: how doesn't?
2020-06-09 19:27:12	@ben	tiwesdaeg: they're fine once you get em running
2020-06-09 19:27:14	@tomasino	he's working on something similar for the1024.club
2020-06-09 19:27:34	@tomasino	i agree tiwesdaeg. mail servers are the worst
2020-06-09 19:28:20	xq	how can i reach khuxkm?
2020-06-09 19:28:30	@tomasino	he's in #meta
2020-06-09 19:28:50	@tomasino	that's the big party room
2020-06-09 19:29:19	solderpunk	Re uploads: I kind of really want to say "embrace limitation and enjoy the creativity it enforces!  Think of cool things to do that fit inside 1024 byte queries!".
2020-06-09 19:29:38	solderpunk	But I dunno if that's going to massively curb adoption in that RESTish sphere.
2020-06-09 19:29:46	solderpunk	I really dunno what people even do with that stuff.
2020-06-09 19:29:52	@tomasino	solderpunk: https://tildegit.org/the1024.club/the1024.club
2020-06-09 19:29:52	xq	i don't think so ^^
2020-06-09 19:29:58	xq	also, it's way less than 1024 byte data :(
2020-06-09 19:30:04	solderpunk	Ah, true.
2020-06-09 19:30:14	solderpunk	How much actual data does 1024 bytes of base64 bit?
2020-06-09 19:30:50	solderpunk	Oh, wow, that's awesome! (the 1024.club)
2020-06-09 19:31:16	@tomasino	i've been so swamped with work i haven't gotten to work on it much
2020-06-09 19:31:21	solderpunk	Need to make some cool 32x32 pixel black-and-white avatars that look good blown up.
2020-06-09 19:31:21	xq	i think it's 700 something
2020-06-09 19:31:21	xq	with a valid url and all characters escaped, you're at roughly 500 i think
2020-06-09 19:31:39	solderpunk	Hmm.
2020-06-09 19:32:00	solderpunk	(registers the 512.club...)
2020-06-09 19:32:03	xj9	1024 bytes might be a little smol for bfs file replication, logs can fit in that size with out too much chunk overhead.
2020-06-09 19:32:08	@tomasino	hehehe
2020-06-09 19:32:37	solderpunk	I mean, I'll guess I'll read your RFC with interest.
2020-06-09 19:32:47	solderpunk	If you can make it dead simple, I totally grant it will boost the power to weight ratio massively.
2020-06-09 19:34:02	@tomasino	got a buddy who already has a math proof version of a FAT storage volume using ed25519 keys to link together the blocks on 1024. I need to finish building it just to see that in action
2020-06-09 19:34:07	solderpunk	I just worry a lot of people will see it as Gemini jumping the shark on the whole idea of radical simplicity.
2020-06-09 19:34:18	xq	solderpunk: my idea is dead simple
2020-06-09 19:34:23	xq	and it has a simple assumption
2020-06-09 19:34:28	xq	"no one wants to upload 0 byte of data"
2020-06-09 19:34:33	~tiwesdaeg	ok, made the weird dovecot error go away
2020-06-09 19:34:41	solderpunk	Yay!
2020-06-09 19:34:45	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: can you try a second test email?
2020-06-09 19:34:56	@tomasino	you bet
2020-06-09 19:35:05	solderpunk	I guess my messages should come in sometime soonish, sdf's mx will keep trying periodically.
2020-06-09 19:35:06	~tiwesdaeg	since I know I didn't get one from you recently
2020-06-09 19:35:15	~tiwesdaeg	gmail.com email came through fine
2020-06-09 19:35:27	~tiwesdaeg	if this fixed it
2020-06-09 19:35:31	@tomasino	sent
2020-06-09 19:35:36	xj9	then again, LoRa messages are a lot smaller than 1024 bytes
2020-06-09 19:35:56	~tiwesdaeg	it did!
2020-06-09 19:36:17	~tiwesdaeg	so it was dovecot throwing a fit that somehow broke postfix
2020-06-09 19:36:57	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk: I'll play around with some ideas for making the logo look better
2020-06-09 19:37:08	solderpunk	The thing about breaking large content up into lots of ~1024 byte chunks over Gemini is that every single request has TLS handshake overhead so it's super wasteful.
2020-06-09 19:37:16	~tiwesdaeg	How do you feel about removing JS vs keeping it?
2020-06-09 19:37:21	solderpunk	Hopefully better support for session resumption will make it a little better soon.
2020-06-09 19:37:30	solderpunk	I actually wondered if bumping CSS for JS made sense?
2020-06-09 19:37:39	solderpunk	Not that I don't have gripes with CSS, but JS is obviously worse.
2020-06-09 19:38:09	~tiwesdaeg	that could help clean up the look
2020-06-09 19:38:28	~tiwesdaeg	it just feels a bit crowded on top
2020-06-09 19:38:36	solderpunk	Yeah, I agree, it does.
2020-06-09 19:40:28	@tomasino	i'm honestly surprised nobody has plugged in a web browser on gemini yet just to be horrible
2020-06-09 19:40:48	solderpunk	How do you mean?
2020-06-09 19:40:58	xq	tomasino: you can use HTML sites with Kristall *grin*
2020-06-09 19:41:03	@tomasino	if i serve a type/html and the client can render html it can fetch the css and js over gemini as well
2020-06-09 19:41:04	xq	but they get rendered in pure text form
2020-06-09 19:41:14	@tomasino	nothing stopping a full web browser just piggy backing on gemini://
2020-06-09 19:41:19	solderpunk	Oh, right.
2020-06-09 19:41:32	solderpunk	No, there's not.
2020-06-09 19:41:42	solderpunk	But I mean it would suck for most websites.
2020-06-09 19:41:52	~tiwesdaeg	I'm guessing mission XII isn't anything special
2020-06-09 19:41:53	@tomasino	oh yes, it would be a waste of time and energy
2020-06-09 19:41:56	solderpunk	Which depend on pipelining and other stuff to be almost just barely usable.
2020-06-09 19:42:17	solderpunk	Yeah, but that doesn't stop people doing all kinds of things on the internet. :p
2020-06-09 19:42:21	solderpunk	Not us, of course.
2020-06-09 19:42:22	@tomasino	but even so, i'm honestly surprised nobody has a proof of concept of that one yet
2020-06-09 19:42:38	@tomasino	we only do meaningful things, like social networks over finger
2020-06-09 19:42:46	solderpunk	No, it was just a nice "graphic"-looking capsule in the right colour.
2020-06-09 19:43:07	solderpunk	Speaking of, did anybody read my Corned Beef post about lightweight microblogging over Gemini?
2020-06-09 19:43:31	@tomasino	oh yes
2020-06-09 19:43:46	@tomasino	it sounded very neat but got into the client stuff i don't grok
2020-06-09 19:44:16	solderpunk	I really like that it's technically possible, but it feels very un-"Small Internet".
2020-06-09 19:44:25	solderpunk	But I might make at least a little one-person version of it for myself.
2020-06-09 19:44:33	xq	no, didn't. reading now!
2020-06-09 19:44:42	solderpunk	I want an analogue of Shufei's weiphlog, for simple, short thoughts.
2020-06-09 19:44:44	tadzik	link? :)
2020-06-09 19:45:03	xq	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/cornedbeef/microblogging-via-gemini-a-sketch.gmi
2020-06-09 19:45:06	tadzik	cheers
2020-06-09 19:46:06	xq	solderpunk: do you have me resources on atom feeds? is there an RFC or something?
2020-06-09 19:46:22	solderpunk	There is!
2020-06-09 19:46:29	solderpunk	Unlike RSS :p
2020-06-09 19:46:33	xq	neat
2020-06-09 19:46:41	solderpunk	And there's a validator at w3c.org and bla bla bla.  Hand on...
2020-06-09 19:46:53	solderpunk	https://validator.w3.org/feed/docs/atom.html
2020-06-09 19:47:00	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-09 19:47:55	xq	nice, so i can provide my blog as an atom feed as well
2020-06-09 19:47:56	xq	:D
2020-06-09 19:48:03	~tiwesdaeg	ben: your test came in too and tomasino's first
2020-06-09 19:48:10	~tiwesdaeg	looks like we are feeding along now
2020-06-09 19:48:21	solderpunk	Please let me know if you do!
2020-06-09 19:48:40	xq	yeah
2020-06-09 19:48:43	solderpunk	If Gemini keeps growing at current rates (which it may not, obviously HN induced a big spike), it's going to get pretty hard to find/follow stuff soon.
2020-06-09 19:48:50	xq	oh, and: Kristall is now also a Gopher client!
2020-06-09 19:48:59	solderpunk	So people really need to start publishing feeds, or doing *something* if they want to get read.
2020-06-09 19:51:07	lukee	hi everyone - just back from my government-sanctioned daily walk
2020-06-09 19:51:23	xq	hey lukee!
2020-06-09 19:51:27	lukee	hiya
2020-06-09 19:51:36	solderpunk	Howdy!
2020-06-09 19:51:57	lukee	talking of feeds I've been wondering if we could define a feed format in text/gmi instead of xml
2020-06-09 19:52:12	lukee	it would be dogfooding the format in other places
2020-06-09 19:52:21	lukee	does a feed really need to be xml?
2020-06-09 19:52:52	lukee	for now I have a simple text/gmi to atom converter I am looking into
2020-06-09 19:53:22	lukee	and the source data would double as an index file into the blog posts
2020-06-09 19:54:01	tadzik	well, feed can be whatever feed readers can read :)
2020-06-09 19:54:15	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk: https://ttm.sh/QS3.png
2020-06-09 19:54:23	~tiwesdaeg	just playing with the rounded idea
2020-06-09 19:54:46	solderpunk	Oooh~!
2020-06-09 19:55:14	~tiwesdaeg	I was trying to keep it 3 colors still
2020-06-09 19:55:57	~tiwesdaeg	if we made the spacecraft and gemini logo black we could make the circle orange
2020-06-09 19:56:24	lukee	something like this - is a similar to simplified atom
2020-06-09 19:56:25	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/cRxl2Rw
2020-06-09 19:56:44	solderpunk	I'd like that, it would make it resemble the original more.
2020-06-09 19:56:54	solderpunk	Do people recognise the original, out of curiosity?
2020-06-09 19:56:57	lukee	what is the double pi symbol thing?
2020-06-09 19:57:10	xq	solderpunk: i like your idea of microblogging/gemini
2020-06-09 19:57:29	~tiwesdaeg	give me a second
2020-06-09 19:57:31	solderpunk	The Gemini zodiac sign.
2020-06-09 19:57:49	lukee	ok - might be a bit obscure for a general audience?
2020-06-09 19:59:19	solderpunk	True.  I'm not really thinking of this as an "official" logo, just a cute little bit of marketing.
2020-06-09 20:00:33	lukee	the visual design is nice and simple and bold - good from a marketing point of view
2020-06-09 20:01:04	lukee	I take it there is a reference to this style of button in popular culture (whatever that is!)
2020-06-09 20:04:11	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QSY.png
2020-06-09 20:04:51	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure how I feel about that one
2020-06-09 20:05:11	solderpunk	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiling_Sun
2020-06-09 20:06:04	~tiwesdaeg	do you like the sun's color better?
2020-06-09 20:06:08	solderpunk	It seems most popular in Germany (Atomkraft?  Nein, danke!), but I've seen a Swedish version here, too.
2020-06-09 20:06:35	solderpunk	I wonder how it would look with a darker, redder orange, like the original?
2020-06-09 20:06:40	~tiwesdaeg	that orange comes from the gemini patch
2020-06-09 20:06:53	solderpunk	Yeah, I know.
2020-06-09 20:07:05	solderpunk	Maybe that is a good a reason to keep it.
2020-06-09 20:08:35	lukee	how about even more explicit: bloated, slow, and tracked? No thanks!
2020-06-09 20:08:59	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QSC.png
2020-06-09 20:09:37	solderpunk	The acronyms barely fit as it is!
2020-06-09 20:09:50	~tiwesdaeg	oops
2020-06-09 20:09:55	~tiwesdaeg	messed up that png
2020-06-09 20:12:16	solderpunk	Actually, having seen it, I much prefer the orange from the Gemini mission patch.
2020-06-09 20:16:56	solderpunk	Sorry to be fussy!
2020-06-09 20:17:23	~tiwesdaeg	no worries
2020-06-09 20:17:37	~tiwesdaeg	I realized I messed something up on the rotation
2020-06-09 20:17:45	xq	solderpunk: speccing a upload ability is hard. damn.
2020-06-09 20:17:51	~tiwesdaeg	I'm playing with a sun like background idea
2020-06-09 20:18:21	~tiwesdaeg	gotta drive home, but I will poke around some more
2020-06-09 20:18:31	solderpunk	No rush!  Thanks again for the effort.
2020-06-09 20:18:42	solderpunk	xq: yeah, it ain't as easy as it looks :p
2020-06-09 20:18:54	~tiwesdaeg	also, I am receiving your emails now!
2020-06-09 20:19:11	~tiwesdaeg	I'll be back
2020-06-09 20:19:16	xq	"problem" is the simplicity
2020-06-09 20:19:41	xq	Gemini State Machine is pretty much {Request} → {Response}
2020-06-09 20:19:47	solderpunk	Yeah, simple is hard!
2020-06-09 20:19:54	xq	tre
2020-06-09 20:19:55	xq	*true
2020-06-09 20:20:07	xq	my idea was to terminate a client upload by "close the connection"
2020-06-09 20:20:19	xq	but this requires a more complex state machine
2020-06-09 20:20:37	solderpunk	I mean, in an ideal world I'd say you should upload stuff by running a small, transient server of your own, and sending it's URL as a query to an "upload point".
2020-06-09 20:20:40	xq	{Request} → {Response/10} → {Upload}
2020-06-09 20:20:51	solderpunk	But that only works in a dream world where people aren't stuck behind NATs and shit.
2020-06-09 20:20:55	xq	yep
2020-06-09 20:21:17	xq	i cannot use finger://ping@cosmic.voyage from my mobile phone
2020-06-09 20:21:19	solderpunk	I was so naively optimistic ten years ago about how IPv6 would change everything in that regard. :p
2020-06-09 20:21:28	xq	i don't have IPv6
2020-06-09 20:22:34	solderpunk	Me neither.
2020-06-09 20:23:05	xq	:(
2020-06-09 20:23:08	xq	modern world it is.
2020-06-09 20:23:56	solderpunk	<crazy hat>The powers that be won't let it happen.  If NAT went away, there would be no reason for IOT and other "smart" devices to go through middle men, and then nobody would get huge piles of data as a side-effect of selling their future eWaste, and the entire IOT industry would collapse</crazy hat>
2020-06-09 20:24:22	xq	that's a tin foil hat :D
2020-06-09 20:24:49	xq	Hanlon’s Razor is probably the cause
2020-06-09 20:24:49	solderpunk	I mean, I honestly believe that's the motivation behind most "smart" appliances.
2020-06-09 20:25:00	xq	that's something i'm with you
2020-06-09 20:25:35	xq	the company i work at has smart devices as well and we have a portal that collects data for the users
2020-06-09 20:25:56	xq	but: we don't do anything with the data. it's there for the users themselves to analyze or just watch
2020-06-09 20:26:25	solderpunk	For now :p
2020-06-09 20:26:29	xq	nah
2020-06-09 20:26:37	xq	we do that since 2010
2020-06-09 20:27:24	solderpunk	Well, I wish that were the norm.
2020-06-09 20:27:28	xq	yeah!
2020-06-09 20:27:36	xq	and only because our clients wanted that
2020-06-09 20:27:57	xq	our devices are always available without internet access
2020-06-09 20:28:07	xq	you can control them via local network
2020-06-09 20:28:20	xq	"IoT" isn't really a thing, most of us hate it :D
2020-06-09 20:28:42	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 20:29:05	▬▬▶	testingSun has joined #gemini
2020-06-09 20:29:28	testingSun	eh?
2020-06-09 20:31:23	xq	hello testingSun
2020-06-09 20:31:48	testingSun	Hello, xj9 brought me here, still recapitulating.
2020-06-09 20:32:12	solderpunk	The sun works pretty well, I can assure you!
2020-06-09 20:32:23	testingSun	Yes lol indeed.
2020-06-09 20:32:35	solderpunk	Are you affiliated with Sunshine Gardens?
2020-06-09 20:32:39	testingSun	absolutely
2020-06-09 20:33:48	mhj	Heyo all, running a gemini server on a FreeBSD machine on Digital Ocean. Still getting everything together. How're y'all doing?
2020-06-09 20:34:02	@tomasino	lovely
2020-06-09 20:34:04	testingSun	Gemini reminds me of GoFish.
2020-06-09 20:34:12	xq	hey mhj
2020-06-09 20:34:17	lukee	hi mhj - doing good thanks
2020-06-09 20:34:17	solderpunk	Yay!  I'm a fan of the SG philosophy.
2020-06-09 20:34:21	solderpunk	Hey1
2020-06-09 20:34:22	xq	doing well, my weekend just started! *grin*
2020-06-09 20:34:28	mhj	Noice :D
2020-06-09 20:34:35	testingSun	noice
2020-06-09 20:35:31	mhj	Does everyone here run a gemini server too? Or is this mostly to just discuss the protocol? In any case, my server is at earthlight.xyz
2020-06-09 20:36:09	⚡	xq can be found at gemini://random-projects.net
2020-06-09 20:36:12	@tomasino	i run tilde.black and cosmic.voyage which are both now on gemini
2020-06-09 20:36:40	mhj	Ooh nice. I remember them on gopher, tomasino
2020-06-09 20:36:55	lukee	mjh: anything you like if there is a Gemini angle I think
2020-06-09 20:37:06	xq	tomasino: i can probably help with the advanced error codes
2020-06-09 20:37:09	acdw	One day I will run a server! Just have to figure out where to migrate to from nearlyfreespeech.net
2020-06-09 20:37:28	mhj	I shall see the gemini version and I'll see your server too, xq
2020-06-09 20:37:49	xq	btw, solderpunk: just publish the RFC on my blog (link above)
2020-06-09 20:37:58	lukee	mjh: would be good to see some content on your server :)
2020-06-09 20:38:12	xq	i pretty much gave up on that approach, as it's too complex for now… but maybe somehow actually does comment it ! :D
2020-06-09 20:38:25	testingSun	cute servers tomasino
2020-06-09 20:38:31	mhj	I mostly have more content on my website and gopher, but gemini content is coming!
2020-06-09 20:38:41	@tomasino	thanks, testingSun 
2020-06-09 20:38:52	testingSun	acdw: they don't have ssh accounts anymore?
2020-06-09 20:39:10	solderpunk	Hmm, why can't I connect to random-projets.net with AV-98?
2020-06-09 20:39:36	testingSun	http://gofish.sourceforge.net/ this is what I was talking about, both are extremely similar
2020-06-09 20:39:42	xq	probably because i've fucked up the server :D
2020-06-09 20:39:59	xq	it doesn't do TLS 1.2 atm :D
2020-06-09 20:40:04	acdw	testingSun: they do, and I have one, but I want gemini on my own domain :)
2020-06-09 20:40:08	xq	porting the server atm
2020-06-09 20:40:20	xj9	i'm working on converting my site to gemini and adding gemini / gopher support to sunshine gardens tilde
2020-06-09 20:40:24	xj9	*my blog
2020-06-09 20:40:28	xj9	is fun project
2020-06-09 20:40:58	testingSun	acdw: ah, I see! Yeah, I'm done with ICAAN
2020-06-09 20:41:16	mhj	solderpunk: I was getting the same error. I use av-98 too
2020-06-09 20:41:19	@tomasino	gemini over tor time?
2020-06-09 20:41:32	solderpunk	xj9: that makes me so happy! :)
2020-06-09 20:41:37	xj9	we gemini over yggdrasil
2020-06-09 20:41:41	testingSun	xj9, there's a lot that can be cut, when I get my paycheck, I'm renovating IRC, how it should have been run.
2020-06-09 20:42:01	xj9	nice
2020-06-09 20:42:36	xj9	solderpunk: <3
2020-06-09 20:42:44	testingSun	xj9: Sorry about July, won't make it, I have 3 jobs now, all physically demanding and present. fml
2020-06-09 20:42:53	acdw	oooooof
2020-06-09 20:42:58	acdw	that really sucks testingSun
2020-06-09 20:43:00	solderpunk	I am so going to play with yggdrasil once Gemini stops eating 90% of my geek time.
2020-06-09 20:43:00	testingSun	all part times
2020-06-09 20:43:14	xj9	that's ok we won't either, 2020 has been a shitshow for all involved
2020-06-09 20:43:24	testingSun	wait what?
2020-06-09 20:43:35	testingSun	ohhhhhh
2020-06-09 20:43:41	testingSun	oh, damn
2020-06-09 20:44:07	xj9	looking for a job rn lol
2020-06-09 20:44:09	testingSun	Can I offer you a job at Fedex then lol?
2020-06-09 20:44:35	testingSun	I get 100$ for recommendations
2020-06-09 20:45:25	mhj	When I'm not fooling around with gemini, gopher, and my website, I'm streaming or writing my zine. I wish I had a job tho, but I have school atm.
2020-06-09 20:46:04	testingSun	You're lucky, I'm going back to finish a doctorate after I get 2k$
2020-06-09 20:51:16	solderpunk	I think the AV-98 + random-projects.net problem is AV-98' fault.
2020-06-09 20:53:38	testingSun	Will Gemini support TLS 3, or is gemini based enough to ignore it, and attempt postquantuum shakes?
2020-06-09 20:54:28	solderpunk	TLS 3?
2020-06-09 20:55:24	xq	solderpunk: not sure… i'm using gemserv, but a tad modified :D
2020-06-09 20:57:37	solderpunk	Nah, it's an unintentionally over-restrictive ciphersuite on my end.
2020-06-09 20:57:45	solderpunk	I'm looking at your upload post now.
2020-06-09 20:57:59	testingSun	solderpunk: 1.3, just less typing
2020-06-09 20:58:50	testingSun	https://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc8446.txt
2020-06-09 21:00:02	solderpunk	Oh, 1.3, sure.
2020-06-09 21:00:09	testingSun	fuggg
2020-06-09 21:00:17	solderpunk	Heck, I really *want* to mandate 1.3 or above only.
2020-06-09 21:00:31	solderpunk	But until very recently that would have ruled out LibreSSL, and it *still* rules out BearSSL.
2020-06-09 21:01:01	testingSun	You don't know what you're asking wwwwwwww
2020-06-09 21:01:55	solderpunk	Am I missing something?  1.3 is drastically simpler than the earlier versions.
2020-06-09 21:02:53	testingSun	You're welcome if you like: https://github.com/wolfSSL/wolfssl
2020-06-09 21:03:32	solderpunk	Oh, huh!
2020-06-09 21:03:37	testingSun	solderpunk: there 3 caveats to TLS1.3 that technically make it insecure, and it's by spec.
2020-06-09 21:03:53	acdw	hey do yall remember if there was consensus on doing TOFU per-domain or per-path?
2020-06-09 21:04:04	testingSun	But, ye ask for a demand, ye give fill it
2020-06-09 21:05:06	solderpunk	Certs are per-domain, not per-path, so I'm not sure how per-path TOFU would work...
2020-06-09 21:05:29	solderpunk	testingSun: Got a link on these 3 caveats?
2020-06-09 21:05:39	acdw	hah thanks solderpunk. Just making sure :)
2020-06-09 21:06:29	testingSun	3 doctors wrote about it, including I in my darkblog solderpunk. Exercise on security is recommended.
2020-06-09 21:09:14	xj9	rough start, and it wont live here permanently https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/xj9.io/
2020-06-09 21:09:30	testingSun	qt
2020-06-09 21:10:16	solderpunk	In some ways Gemini is deliberately not super ambitious on the security front, for the sake of being "radically familiar" and easy to implement.
2020-06-09 21:10:44	solderpunk	TLS ain't perfect, but "definitely not worse than the web" is good enough for a whole lot of folk.
2020-06-09 21:12:16	solderpunk	Compared to Gopher, it's obviously and clearly a step up, and compared to the web, it's obviously and clearly on par, so it's not a reason *against* shifting from either.
2020-06-09 21:12:18	testingSun	There's a saying I keep close to heart solderpunk:
2020-06-09 21:12:18	testingSun	The illusion of security is far worse than no security at all.
2020-06-09 21:13:18	xq	testingSun: where's the problem with TLS security for day-to-day communications?
2020-06-09 21:13:36	testingSun	Regarding specifically TLS, it's just sugar for investors.
2020-06-09 21:14:17	testingSun	Several, I prefer not to rant here, or in the clearnet.
2020-06-09 21:14:33	solderpunk	It that a criticism of the CA system, or of the crypto primitives in TLS?
2020-06-09 21:15:28	testingSun	The design, scoping our Dragnet Surveillance Machina today. ISPs are deliberately complicit.
2020-06-09 21:16:39	testingSun	Covid19 did help me pop a few cherries though, so I'm thankful for those.
2020-06-09 21:17:41	solderpunk	If an ISP feeds you a phony certificate with a valid CA signature as part of some kind of state-level scheme, a TOFU client will spot that.
2020-06-09 21:17:59	solderpunk	I don't believe ISPs can break AES or DH.
2020-06-09 21:19:27	xq	If anyone can break AES/DH, we can just stop encrypting anyways
2020-06-09 21:20:10	xj9	afaik AES and SHA2+ are unlikely to break
2020-06-09 21:20:28	xj9	DH will probably break if i'm remembering correctly that its for EC key exchange
2020-06-09 21:21:32	solderpunk	There's nothing inherently EC about DH, it's defined over arbitrary groups.
2020-06-09 21:21:33	testingSun	solderpunk: notice, I'm not talking about crypto, for good reason.
2020-06-09 21:21:50	solderpunk	Right, thta's why I asked if you were criticising the CA system.
2020-06-09 21:21:56	solderpunk	In which case, I'm all with you.
2020-06-09 21:22:02	testingSun	notevenclose
2020-06-09 21:22:04	solderpunk	Just saying "the design" isn't giving me much to go on.
2020-06-09 21:23:24	testingSun	look up "tls 1.3 [flaws, caveats, ill, bad,[etc.]]", you'll find 2/3rds of my opinion on my .i2p.
2020-06-09 21:25:03	testingSun	My opinion doxes me a bit, which is why I'm extremely hesitant on sharing. Not that I don't want to address you, solderpunk
2020-06-09 21:25:20	solderpunk	I understand that.
2020-06-09 21:28:09	testingSun	xj9, saw what ch sent me?
2020-06-09 21:28:37	xj9	i don' think so?
2020-06-09 21:29:22	⚡	xq is a bit hyped
2020-06-09 21:29:40	xq	It seems like Kristall is also working on Haiku
2020-06-09 21:30:38	testingSun	https://blog.chiariglione.org/a-future-without-mpeg/
2020-06-09 21:31:02	@tomasino	huzzah
2020-06-09 21:31:04	testingSun	I've been holding my laughter
2020-06-09 21:42:37	xq	solderpunk: what do you use to create/update your atom feed?
2020-06-09 21:43:06	solderpunk	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemfeed, of course :p
2020-06-09 21:43:33	solderpunk	It's quick and painless if you use # headers, have a sensible filesystem layout, and can manage to avoid messing up your filesystem timestamps.
2020-06-09 21:43:54	solderpunk	Which it turns out is a set of criteria almost nobody can actually manage :p
2020-06-09 21:44:06	solderpunk	Some people hax0r it up a little.
2020-06-09 21:45:28	xq	hm
2020-06-09 21:45:35	solderpunk	You can make it a bit less fiddly if you choose to put YYYY-MM-DD stamps at the front of your filenames.
2020-06-09 21:45:55	xq	i have that already
2020-06-09 21:46:06	solderpunk	Yeah, I just had a quick look.
2020-06-09 21:46:25	xq	maybe i'll hack something together
2020-06-09 21:46:39	solderpunk	Looks like making a feed for your `blog` dir will just work.
2020-06-09 21:46:47	solderpunk	No hacking should be required.
2020-06-09 21:47:09	solderpunk	You have one-file-per-post, all posts in the same dir, timestamps in the filenames, headers in the files.
2020-06-09 21:47:20	solderpunk	Congratulations on your rare common sense :p
2020-06-09 21:47:36	xq	thanks
2020-06-09 21:47:48	xq	i'm not always that … sensible
2020-06-09 21:47:52	xq	my server is a horrible mess
2020-06-09 21:48:08	solderpunk	Haha.
2020-06-09 21:48:19	solderpunk	Well, let me know if gemfeed doesn't work out of the box for you, but I think it will.
2020-06-09 21:48:24	solderpunk	Anyway, I'm off to bed.
2020-06-09 21:48:29	xq	it means i have to install python :D
2020-06-09 21:48:45	solderpunk	testingSun, I've found some interesting TLS 1.3 reading.  Thanks for the pointers.
2020-06-09 21:48:54	solderpunk	Ah, true.
2020-06-09 21:49:03	⚡	xq is no fan of the snek
2020-06-09 21:49:11	solderpunk	If you don't have it already, I retract my common sense comment :p
2020-06-09 21:49:16	acdw	lolol
2020-06-09 21:49:27	acdw	xq: you could rewrite it in bash!
2020-06-09 21:49:29	solderpunk	I bet you can find an Atom library in your language of choice.
2020-06-09 21:49:37	acdw	or shoot *I* could try rewriting it in bash
2020-06-09 21:49:40	xq	my language of choice would force me to write one :D
2020-06-09 21:49:44	acdw	that'd be good for my personal site too
2020-06-09 21:49:57	solderpunk	Or, heck, even an XML generating library would make it easy enough.
2020-06-09 21:50:06	xq	hehe
2020-06-09 21:50:11	xq	seems like string manips is enough
2020-06-09 21:50:25	solderpunk	Yeah, there's not a lot to a minimal feed.
2020-06-09 21:51:00	solderpunk	Alright, night everybody!
2020-06-09 21:51:07	acdw	o/
2020-06-09 21:51:14		solderpunk has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-09 21:52:54	testingSun	solderpunk: you're extremely welcome.
2020-06-09 21:52:54	testingSun	Fug, i missed him.
2020-06-09 21:57:04		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-09 21:57:06		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-09 22:14:02	~tiwesdaeg	testingSun: what is yggdrasil? besides a giant tree or an ancient linux distro
2020-06-09 22:14:19	testingSun	eh?
2020-06-09 22:14:48	~tiwesdaeg	or was that xj9
2020-06-09 22:15:00	testingSun	probably xj9
2020-06-09 22:15:13	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, sorry
2020-06-09 22:15:27	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk also sounded like he knew what they were talking about
2020-06-09 22:15:28	testingSun	but a quick google search https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/
2020-06-09 22:15:37	xj9	^
2020-06-09 22:16:01	xj9	encrypted ipv6 overlay network
2020-06-09 22:16:02	xq	>
2020-06-09 22:16:02	xq	Yggdrasil is an early-stage implementation of a fully end-to-end encrypted IPv6 network.
2020-06-09 22:16:02	xq	okay, i'm out.
2020-06-09 22:16:07	testingSun	lol
2020-06-09 22:16:19	xq	okay, i should continue reading :D
2020-06-09 22:16:49	testingSun	upto you m8, Iirc this project tried to fix problems of another project
2020-06-09 22:17:02	xq	was just referring to IPv6
2020-06-09 22:17:07	xq	which is just "not there"
2020-06-09 22:17:17	testingSun	and yes, it was yetanother Ipv6 p2p reimplementation
2020-06-09 22:17:40	xj9	works better than cjdns imo
2020-06-09 22:17:48	testingSun	I forgot the project, yeaaah that one!
2020-06-09 22:17:52	~tiwesdaeg	ok, grilling time
2020-06-09 22:18:03	xj9	well, more like out of experience. out network is way more stable on yggdrasil than it was on cjdns
2020-06-09 22:18:05	xq	tiwesdaeg: I'm jealous now
2020-06-09 22:18:07	testingSun	whatchu cooking?
2020-06-09 22:18:39	testingSun	something like that, haven't played it with at all, so I can't say anything.
2020-06-09 22:18:41	~tiwesdaeg	gotta do something in this hot southern heat
2020-06-09 22:18:53	~tiwesdaeg	we don't have nice weather like in Deutschland
2020-06-09 22:19:00	testingSun	build an underground bunker, and cool off
2020-06-09 22:19:04	~tiwesdaeg	just some hotdogs, jalapenos
2020-06-09 22:19:08	testingSun	nice
2020-06-09 22:19:10	~tiwesdaeg	making seattle style hotdogs
2020-06-09 22:19:18	testingSun	nicer
2020-06-09 22:19:24	xq	sounds good
2020-06-09 22:19:33	xq	and the weather here is … okayish right now?
2020-06-09 22:19:37	~tiwesdaeg	gotta grill some onions too
2020-06-09 22:19:44	xq	it rained bit (which is nice!), but it got cold again
2020-06-09 22:19:55	testingSun	yum, you got me salivating now
2020-06-09 22:19:57	~tiwesdaeg	cold = nice
2020-06-09 22:20:14	xq	it dependes
2020-06-09 22:20:18	xq	i'm on the 22°C train
2020-06-09 22:20:20	~tiwesdaeg	here it is hot and humid all summer long
2020-06-09 22:20:22	testingSun	heh
2020-06-09 22:20:28	xq	tiwesdaeg: rough location?
2020-06-09 22:20:46	~tiwesdaeg	Memphis metro area
2020-06-09 22:20:52	~tiwesdaeg	on the Mississippi side
2020-06-09 22:21:33	~tiwesdaeg	I was actually born in Deutschland, but haven't been back since 1988
2020-06-09 22:21:43	~tiwesdaeg	so I know it has nice weather ;P
2020-06-09 22:21:54	xq	haha
2020-06-09 22:22:01	xq	weather has changed in the last years though
2020-06-09 22:22:20	~tiwesdaeg	hasn't it everywhere?
2020-06-09 22:22:32	xq	probably, can only speak for Baden-Württemberg though :D
2020-06-09 22:22:38	~tiwesdaeg	I guess it used to snow regularly here in the winter and you could ice skate on the ponds
2020-06-09 22:22:51	testingSun	same difference. I'm just waiting for the glaciers to melt, and the poles to shift.
2020-06-09 22:22:51	xq	we had snow last year…
2020-06-09 22:22:59	~tiwesdaeg	now you're lucky if you get a dusting once
2020-06-09 22:23:23	testingSun	#NoMoreWinter in twitter soon.
2020-06-09 22:23:33	~tiwesdaeg	I've only been here for two years though
2020-06-09 22:23:39	testingSun	come to your local news® outlet.
2020-06-09 22:23:40	~tiwesdaeg	maybe we'll luck out this winter
2020-06-09 22:24:16	xq	i really hope we get more rain soon
2020-06-09 22:24:18	~tiwesdaeg	I used to live up near Bremerhaven
2020-06-09 22:24:21	xq	it's way too dry
2020-06-09 22:24:40	~tiwesdaeg	in Osterholz-Scharmbeck
2020-06-09 22:24:57	xq	that's a very german name :D
2020-06-09 22:26:10	~tiwesdaeg	I know
2020-06-09 22:26:32	~tiwesdaeg	Used to be an american army base in the area
2020-06-09 22:33:53	~tiwesdaeg	xq: you get that cmark going?
2020-06-09 22:34:03	~tiwesdaeg	darn coals aren't ready eyt
2020-06-09 22:34:20	xq	nope, didn't work on that yet…
2020-06-09 22:34:30	xq	postponed that for "later", want to get my 0.2 release ready
2020-06-09 22:34:44	~tiwesdaeg	I see it in the lib directory
2020-06-09 22:34:47	xq	yeah, true
2020-06-09 22:34:50	xq	i prepared!
2020-06-09 22:35:25	xq	working on OS default handling atm
2020-06-09 22:35:32	xq	so you can open telnet links and such
2020-06-09 22:36:16	~tiwesdaeg	how many telnet servers are left in the world?
2020-06-09 22:37:10	xq	good question
2020-06-09 22:37:26	xq	i found one on gopher://bitreich.org
2020-06-09 22:37:33	wgreenhouse	tiwesdaeg: intentional, or de facto?
2020-06-09 22:37:43	~tiwesdaeg	intentional
2020-06-09 22:37:58	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, how many operating systems run telnet by default?
2020-06-09 22:38:15	~tiwesdaeg	a lot you have to enable ssh
2020-06-09 22:43:27	@tomasino	i have some links to telnet BBS's on my gopher hole in the explorations area
2020-06-09 22:52:56	xq	thanks for that rabbit hole
2020-06-09 22:53:16	xq	i'm now talking to a Apple ][ via Telnet
2020-06-09 23:00:54	@tomasino	that's a great BBS
2020-06-09 23:00:55	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-09 23:59:57		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 00:00:14	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 01:06:31	xq	just released Kristall V0.2: https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/releases/tag/V0.2
2020-06-10 01:07:28	xq	and now: bed. took me way longer than planned to make that version ready.
2020-06-10 01:10:31	epoch	> cool 32x32 pixel black-and-white avatars
2020-06-10 01:10:43	epoch	or have them 48x48 and they'll be x-face size
2020-06-10 01:13:33		xq has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-10 01:53:31	mhj	Ooh BBS talk
2020-06-10 01:54:36	mhj	Too bad I missed it lol
2020-06-10 02:00:31	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 03:07:46	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 03:09:41		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-10 04:14:39	ℹ 	anelki is now known as juni
2020-06-10 04:15:12	ℹ 	juni is now known as anelki
2020-06-10 05:56:25		testingSun has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 06:11:51		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-10 06:17:08	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 06:28:42		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 06:30:53	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 06:30:53	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-10 06:43:23	epoch	hrm. gemini link shortener
2020-06-10 06:43:44	epoch	inb4 link shorteners are terrible broken-link-causing cancer
2020-06-10 08:01:22	ℹ 	epoch is now known as `epochbot
2020-06-10 09:14:57	ℹ 	`epochbot is now known as epoch
2020-06-10 09:43:54		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 09:44:09	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 09:52:44	jan6	lol
2020-06-10 09:53:19	jan6	link shorteners are good as long as you don't use them in your sites, and only use them for sharing with humans
2020-06-10 09:53:47	jan6	(unless you use your own shortener, where you know it'll be around as long as the site is)
2020-06-10 10:10:38	xq	Link shorteners are the epitome of tracking
2020-06-10 10:13:34	tadzik	I thought they're a testament to IRC clients with poor line wrapping
2020-06-10 10:13:58	tadzik	and talks where one of the slides says "get the examples here"
2020-06-10 10:16:21	xq	yeah, for talks they're okay
2020-06-10 10:21:01	epoch	> IRC clients with poor line wrapping
2020-06-10 10:21:10	epoch	that's what I use mine for mostly
2020-06-10 10:22:55	epoch	> link shorteners are the epitome of tracking
2020-06-10 10:23:21	epoch	not all link shorteners are bastards
2020-06-10 10:24:41	xq	true, but they must have high moral standards to not do accidential tracking (log files)
2020-06-10 10:25:32	⚡	epoch checks what accidental tracking epo.k.vu might be doing
2020-06-10 10:26:13	epoch	logs... date/time, IPs, requested resource, useragent
2020-06-10 10:26:31	xq	does it note what the link is referring to? :D
2020-06-10 10:26:57	epoch	the links are stored on the same computer as the logs
2020-06-10 10:28:03	epoch	so, they could be manually dereferenced
2020-06-10 10:28:06	xq	yeah that's kinda what i meant with "accidential tracking" :D
2020-06-10 10:28:15	epoch	assuming they're still around
2020-06-10 10:28:23	xq	it's not like it's bad, but it's still kinda tracking. you just don't do it :D
2020-06-10 10:29:24	epoch	the logs are stored on a tmpfs so they get cleared quite often
2020-06-10 10:29:38	⚡	epoch checks uptime
2020-06-10 10:29:40	epoch	1 day ago
2020-06-10 10:32:13	epoch	alright, so...
2020-06-10 10:32:21	xq	ah nice :)
2020-06-10 10:32:27	xq	+1 for tmpfs logs
2020-06-10 10:32:28	epoch	how do I not do "accidental tracking" while still being able to catch attacks?
2020-06-10 10:33:41	epoch	(and bugs)
2020-06-10 10:34:16	xq	yeah i think the logging with log rotation over some days is totally okay
2020-06-10 10:34:27	xq	but i know a lot of servers where logs are kinda infinite
2020-06-10 10:38:11	ℹ 	epoch is now known as \_o-
2020-06-10 10:39:25	ℹ 	\_o- is now known as \_0-
2020-06-10 10:39:44	@tomasino	i like having my own personal shortener
2020-06-10 10:39:54	@tomasino	handy for linking people to projects without a big long thing
2020-06-10 10:40:00	@tomasino	https://ino.is/stutter
2020-06-10 10:40:12	@tomasino	https://ino.is/stitchy
2020-06-10 10:40:17	ℹ 	\_0- is now known as epoch
2020-06-10 10:44:24	⚡	epoch adds a <blink> tag to gemini site
2020-06-10 11:06:15	xq	we need more blink!
2020-06-10 11:46:37	dkibi	in an alternative universe solderpunk ended all that inline decoration discussion by specifying precicely one inline decoration
2020-06-10 11:50:06	tadzik	<decorated></decorated>
2020-06-10 11:50:08	⚡	tadzik hides
2020-06-10 12:28:08		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 12:37:35	~tiwesdaeg	guten morgen
2020-06-10 12:37:49	⚡	tiwesdaeg is having a slow morning
2020-06-10 12:56:01	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 12:58:52	xq	hey tiwesdaeg
2020-06-10 12:59:57	⚡	tomasino gives tiwesdaeg some groove - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUHgpFJBCw4
2020-06-10 13:02:44	~tiwesdaeg	yo
2020-06-10 13:02:47	⚡	tiwesdaeg groves
2020-06-10 13:02:52	~tiwesdaeg	+o
2020-06-10 13:03:17	~tiwesdaeg	I see some markdown rendering
2020-06-10 13:06:16	@tomasino	you do?
2020-06-10 13:06:23	xq	now: certificate stuff for Kristall!
2020-06-10 13:06:49	~tiwesdaeg	still getting dark grey text only
2020-06-10 13:07:07	~tiwesdaeg	markdown looks good when you choose the light autotheming
2020-06-10 13:07:15	xq	tiwesdaeg: i assume you talk about kristall? :D
2020-06-10 13:07:18	xq	for markdown? probably, yes. plaintext works though
2020-06-10 13:07:20	~tiwesdaeg	I am
2020-06-10 13:07:26	xq	haven't changed anything about markdown rendering yet
2020-06-10 13:07:35	xq	want to get the certificate stuff done first
2020-06-10 13:08:13	@tomasino	i better pull and update to the latest
2020-06-10 13:08:14	~tiwesdaeg	yes, plaintext looks right
2020-06-10 13:08:35	~tiwesdaeg	so much growth is so few days
2020-06-10 13:08:42	xq	html is probably borked too
2020-06-10 13:08:47	@tomasino	html is borked by design
2020-06-10 13:09:03	~tiwesdaeg	<bork></bork>
2020-06-10 13:09:17	~tiwesdaeg	hidden first and last tag of every html file
2020-06-10 13:09:37	@tomasino	error, in html7 <bork> has no end tag. It must also come after the </head> but before <body>
2020-06-10 13:09:48	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-10 13:10:01	xq	:D
2020-06-10 13:10:09	~tiwesdaeg	I say this as I access irc through glowing-bear ;P
2020-06-10 13:11:11	@tomasino	hah
2020-06-10 13:11:27	@tomasino	web is my $DAY_JOB
2020-06-10 13:11:31	@tomasino	it's just fun to make fun of
2020-06-10 13:11:52	~tiwesdaeg	I should have gone in to software
2020-06-10 13:14:25	xq	uuuuh
2020-06-10 13:14:34	xq	a friend of mine wants to try Kristall on her Pine Phone
2020-06-10 13:15:35	mk270	xq: are you the author of kristall, or of a different client?
2020-06-10 13:15:43	xq	yeah, i'm creating Kristall
2020-06-10 13:16:17	mk270	url?
2020-06-10 13:16:54	xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall
2020-06-10 13:18:25	@tomasino	xq: https://ttm.sh/QSg.txt
2020-06-10 13:18:30	@tomasino	some makefile love for you
2020-06-10 13:19:27	xq	thanks
2020-06-10 13:19:56	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-10 13:20:05	xq	can you explain to me what "install" does?
2020-06-10 13:20:28	xq	so, what's the difference to "cp"?
2020-06-10 13:23:50		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 13:25:00	@tomasino	it also sets permissions properly with it and has some other advanced features
2020-06-10 13:25:31	xq	ah!
2020-06-10 13:26:19	~tiwesdaeg	it looks looks like install also deletes the destination file
2020-06-10 13:26:39	~tiwesdaeg	I guess weird stuff happens if the file is running and you try to cp over it
2020-06-10 13:26:53	@tomasino	sure can
2020-06-10 13:27:13	@tomasino	install is a pretty standard convention for make installs too
2020-06-10 13:27:30	@tomasino	i cleaned up your dependency tree and got rid of the PHONY too
2020-06-10 13:27:42	@tomasino	i don't think you need the default: all there, either
2020-06-10 13:27:43	~tiwesdaeg	you should add an install of the kristall.desktop file as well
2020-06-10 13:27:45	@tomasino	but i left it. it's not harming
2020-06-10 13:27:51	@tomasino	i haven't made one yet
2020-06-10 13:27:54	@tomasino	is there one in the repo?
2020-06-10 13:27:57	~tiwesdaeg	there is one already
2020-06-10 13:28:01	@tomasino	oh, there is
2020-06-10 13:28:05	@tomasino	okay, gimme a few
2020-06-10 13:28:13	@tomasino	just got a request to push a site live
2020-06-10 13:29:00	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure the proper method for icon install
2020-06-10 13:30:47	@tomasino	probably points to a install cache spot or something, but not sure where that would live
2020-06-10 13:31:02	@tomasino	back in a while!
2020-06-10 13:50:46	ℹ 	paper is now known as paper__
2020-06-10 13:51:15	ℹ 	paper_ is now known as paper
2020-06-10 13:51:29	ℹ 	paper__ is now known as paper_
2020-06-10 13:52:26	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 14:04:23	~tiwesdaeg	hola bacterio!
2020-06-10 14:06:08	xq	what tls libraries are you guys using? i need to include one to create client certificates with Kristall… I heard of LibreSSL and OpenSSL?
2020-06-10 14:07:01	~tiwesdaeg	bearssl?
2020-06-10 14:07:25	~tiwesdaeg	https://bearssl.org/
2020-06-10 14:07:26	xq	i think bearssl has no option to *create* new certificates and keys
2020-06-10 14:07:32	paper	Libressl is a fork of OpenSSL, so you shouldn't need to do almost anything to get it working
2020-06-10 14:07:33	~tiwesdaeg	seems to pop up from time to time
2020-06-10 14:07:48	xq	paper: sounds good, so i can just solve this by adding a -lcrypto probably
2020-06-10 14:07:55	~tiwesdaeg	libressl is the openbsd fork
2020-06-10 14:08:07	~tiwesdaeg	happened back during the heartbleed thingy
2020-06-10 14:09:09	xq	okay, sounds like this will work then :)
2020-06-10 14:20:29	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 14:24:06	xq	WHOOO
2020-06-10 14:24:13	xq	i have just loaded gemini://gemini.conman.org/private/mondrian.gif
2020-06-10 14:30:51	mhj	Yo geminars
2020-06-10 14:37:56	xq	hey mhj
2020-06-10 14:41:02		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-10 14:44:39	mhj	yo xq
2020-06-10 14:45:05	mhj	Gonna spruce up my gemini site
2020-06-10 14:47:01	xq	do that!
2020-06-10 14:54:18	~tiwesdaeg	is key generation handled in the client or do you have to generate then link?
2020-06-10 14:54:35	xq	i will provide both ways
2020-06-10 14:54:46	xq	one for importing a key and also having built-in key generation
2020-06-10 14:54:53	xq	(that's what i'm working on right now)
2020-06-10 14:55:35	xq	idea for transient certs is that you click the "enable cert" button, hit a "30 minutes" button and you have a fresh, unique 30 minute long valid cert enabled
2020-06-10 14:58:58		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 15:00:10	~tiwesdaeg	oh wow, kristall is running in Haiku
2020-06-10 15:00:14	~tiwesdaeg	that's pretty neat
2020-06-10 15:02:57	xq	yes!
2020-06-10 15:05:28	~tiwesdaeg	I wonder how haiku is bare metal
2020-06-10 15:26:50	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 15:51:46		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 16:19:31	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 16:30:41	▬▬▶	jba has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 16:35:34		jba has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-10 16:42:53	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 16:43:11		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-10 17:01:51		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 17:31:17	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 17:35:32		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 18:05:33	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 18:21:17	ℹ 	jan6 is now known as kumquat
2020-06-10 18:26:37	ℹ 	lick is now known as spacehare_
2020-06-10 18:27:00	ℹ 	kumquat is now known as lick
2020-06-10 18:27:39	ℹ 	lick is now known as jan6
2020-06-10 18:27:49	ℹ 	spacehare_ is now known as lick
2020-06-10 18:39:23		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 18:56:22	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 18:58:51	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 19:05:57	xq	hey lukee
2020-06-10 19:07:36	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 19:09:11	@tomasino	hey sexy geminauts
2020-06-10 19:09:14	@tomasino	how you all doing?
2020-06-10 19:10:57	lukee	I've never been chatted up like that before
2020-06-10 19:11:08	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-10 19:11:52	lukee	I'm preparing a point release for GemiNaut - has a few new features and bug fixes
2020-06-10 19:12:09	@tomasino	oh yeah?
2020-06-10 19:12:32	@tomasino	do you have a thing in it so that when it updates the first and only first time it updates it defaults to a changelog page that says what changed?
2020-06-10 19:12:33	xq	hey tomasino!
2020-06-10 19:12:40	@tomasino	cause i feel like that would be a sexy addition
2020-06-10 19:13:07	@tomasino	hey xq
2020-06-10 19:13:09	lukee	no, maybe one day
2020-06-10 19:13:15	@tomasino	maybe next version
2020-06-10 19:13:16	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-10 19:13:39	lukee	Could have a link to the change log in the help->history menu
2020-06-10 19:13:44	lukee	might be more straightforward
2020-06-10 19:13:44	xq	i have something exciting to show :)
2020-06-10 19:14:23	lukee	what's new xq?
2020-06-10 19:14:52	@tomasino	well, i suppose a history in the help menu also makes sense, yes
2020-06-10 19:15:21	xq	let me take a video
2020-06-10 19:15:31	xq	tomasino: good point, i'll make that!
2020-06-10 19:18:18	xq	https://mq32.de/public/kristall-04.mp4
2020-06-10 19:18:29	xq	be excited about: transient certificate support!
2020-06-10 19:20:59	lukee	nice
2020-06-10 19:21:33	xq	yep, i think the workflow is good, too
2020-06-10 19:25:08	lukee	xq: what do you think about the server providing the content-length?
2020-06-10 19:25:25	xq	not sure
2020-06-10 19:25:30	@tomasino	huzzah
2020-06-10 19:26:16	lukee	call me a pragmatist, but I dont see the philosophical objection to this info as it cannot be used for tracking or anything nefarious like that
2020-06-10 19:26:44	tadzik	it's mostly a slippery slope worry I think
2020-06-10 19:27:05	tadzik	we have content-type, we add content-length, tomorrow we'll have HTTP
2020-06-10 19:27:08	lukee	but not all slopes are in fact slippery
2020-06-10 19:27:13	tadzik	I agree
2020-06-10 19:27:17	tadzik	(hence my email :))
2020-06-10 19:28:03	tadzik	I do see solderpunk's point though. Even if you disregard slippery slope, the lack of certain features implicitely encourages a certain culture
2020-06-10 19:28:45	tadzik	if downloading big files sucks, there's less incentive to create servers that are about sharing big files, and that encourages a small(er) internet which is the original idea
2020-06-10 19:28:51	lukee	its seems to me if we are serious about supporting low end devices and networks, we need to communicate that info
2020-06-10 19:29:00	tadzik	I'm not sure if that's their intention, but that's what I'm seeing between the lines
2020-06-10 19:29:56	tadzik	well there's two sides to this. With the lack of Content-Length equivalent, sharing anything >1MB is bound to be a shitty experience for the users and so people will avoid doing that
2020-06-10 19:29:57	lukee	maybe we shouldnt support any other mime types than text/plain and text/gemini then
2020-06-10 19:30:08	tadzik	and possibly switch to sharing magnet links, ipfs:// or whatnot
2020-06-10 19:30:30	lukee	what is a magnet link?
2020-06-10 19:30:40	tadzik	that's a link-ified .torrent file, basically
2020-06-10 19:31:11	xq	yeah, a magnet url attracts torrents :D
2020-06-10 19:31:15	tadzik	I was wondering about this recently wrt lack of POST/PUT in gemini: if you really wanted to allow the equivalent of file uploads, how would you do it?
2020-06-10 19:31:22	xq	i think that's actually a pretty nice idea
2020-06-10 19:31:35	xq	use gemini for browsing small-scale files and use another service to distribute the larger files
2020-06-10 19:31:35	~tiwesdaeg	super cool xq
2020-06-10 19:31:44	lukee	I agree - it would be nice to be able to implement a really minimal wiki
2020-06-10 19:32:00	xq	tiwesdaeg: thanks! i fixed some bugs, gonna push now. if you wanna test, i'll notify
2020-06-10 19:32:12	~tiwesdaeg	will do
2020-06-10 19:32:19	~tiwesdaeg	let me know when it's safe to pull
2020-06-10 19:38:14	xq	okay, pushed
2020-06-10 19:39:43	~tiwesdaeg	pulled
2020-06-10 19:42:32	~tiwesdaeg	getting an error trying to access conman
2020-06-10 19:42:57	xq	okay? what error?
2020-06-10 19:43:23	~tiwesdaeg	An error happened:
2020-06-10 19:43:25	~tiwesdaeg	Temporary Failure
2020-06-10 19:43:27	~tiwesdaeg	Temporary Error
2020-06-10 19:45:41	xq	huh, weird :D
2020-06-10 19:45:46	xq	so, the server tells you this error?
2020-06-10 19:45:58	xq	hmmm… when you enable the certificate?
2020-06-10 19:46:25	~tiwesdaeg	nope
2020-06-10 19:46:29	~tiwesdaeg	just trying to load it
2020-06-10 19:46:35	@tomasino	eh, konpeito.media was one of the first popular destinations in gemspace and it's all big content
2020-06-10 19:46:42	@tomasino	you just deal
2020-06-10 19:47:36	xq	hm, is it still open?
2020-06-10 19:47:41	xq	can't connect with :1965
2020-06-10 19:48:24	lukee	me neither
2020-06-10 19:49:48	@tomasino	it's down at the moment
2020-06-10 19:49:54	@tomasino	cat was having jetforce issues and then just moved
2020-06-10 19:49:55	~tiwesdaeg	cq
2020-06-10 19:49:57	~tiwesdaeg	oops
2020-06-10 19:49:58	xq	tiwesdaeg, it's gemini://gemini.conman.org/
2020-06-10 19:50:01	@tomasino	hasn't had time to fix it yet
2020-06-10 19:50:07	xq	not gemini://gemini.conman.org
2020-06-10 19:50:21	~tiwesdaeg	can you only create transient keys?
2020-06-10 19:50:28	xq	right now, yes
2020-06-10 19:50:31	~tiwesdaeg	ok
2020-06-10 19:50:36	xq	they have a randomized user identity
2020-06-10 19:50:57	~tiwesdaeg	I was about to get astrobotany to work with one, but then you lose access after the key expires
2020-06-10 19:51:03	xq	yeah
2020-06-10 19:51:09	~tiwesdaeg	about = able
2020-06-10 19:51:09	xq	for that, you have to wait a bit
2020-06-10 19:51:29	xq	the transient certificates are only stored in-memory, not on disk
2020-06-10 19:51:43	~tiwesdaeg	yep the / did it
2020-06-10 19:51:54	~tiwesdaeg	solderpunk's link isn't correct
2020-06-10 19:56:20	xq	really looking forward on creating my astrobotany account :D
2020-06-10 19:57:09	xq	how do you like the interface for certificate selection?
2020-06-10 19:57:36	xq	the empty area on the upper side is planned to list all your certificates in a single-level folder structure
2020-06-10 19:57:54	xq	so you have something like /games/astrobotany
2020-06-10 20:00:51	wgreenhouse	oof, I guess I can't try cool gemini games requiring authentication from emacs yet. just checked elpher's issues list and found - [ ] gemini transactions requiring client certificates
2020-06-10 20:02:47	~tiwesdaeg	I figured as much
2020-06-10 20:03:59	lukee	gemini://gemini.conman.org already redirects to gemini://gemini.conman.org/
2020-06-10 20:05:14	~tiwesdaeg	not sure what is going on then
2020-06-10 20:05:45	~tiwesdaeg	it's not redirecting in kristall
2020-06-10 20:06:14	xq	it does not
2020-06-10 20:06:28	xq	openssl s_client says "no redirection"
2020-06-10 20:06:29	xq	gemini://gemini.conman.org
2020-06-10 20:06:29	xq	40 Temporary Error
2020-06-10 20:12:59	lukee	Ok maybe it is a client behaviour - I'm using gemget. maybe it does it itself as a reasonable assumption
2020-06-10 20:14:26	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 20:15:04	kensanata	🚀❕❕
2020-06-10 20:15:36	kensanata	I'm writing tests for my Gemini server and oh my there is a lot to fix.
2020-06-10 20:16:52	xq	hey kensanata
2020-06-10 20:17:06	xq	dd if=/dev/urandom | openssl s_client -connect kensata.server:1965
2020-06-10 20:17:07	xq	:D
2020-06-10 20:17:26	kensanata	Ultimate fuzzing!
2020-06-10 20:25:09	xq	lol
2020-06-10 20:25:18	xq	i may have done goofed the client name generation :D
2020-06-10 20:25:24	xq	tiwesdaeg, we have the same plant!
2020-06-10 20:25:52	~tiwesdaeg	mine will die after I can't water it anymore after 48 hours
2020-06-10 20:26:46	xq	but i can water yours!
2020-06-10 20:27:00	xq	║  1. sg4zMSeUVJE         │ 1 minutes ago                     ║
2020-06-10 20:27:01	xq	║  2. sg4zMSeUVJE         │ 32 minutes ago                    ║
2020-06-10 20:27:01	xq	║  3. sg4zMSeUVJE         │ 38 minutes ago                    ║
2020-06-10 20:27:02	xq	:D
2020-06-10 20:27:10	xq	the rng is … bad for the name generation :D
2020-06-10 20:27:30	~tiwesdaeg	we have the same temp cert?
2020-06-10 20:29:36	xq	no, but the same name
2020-06-10 20:32:27	@tomasino	ohnoes
2020-06-10 20:33:27	xq	i think i have to seed the RNG :D
2020-06-10 20:43:41	kensanata	I always look at the plant right above it and water it as well.
2020-06-10 20:53:44		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-10 21:09:39		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-10 21:33:48	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-10 21:57:05		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-10 22:05:36	styan	xq: If you are adding `PREFIX' to your Makefile, you should add `DESTDIR' before it.  ``${DESTDIR}${PREFIX}/bin''
2020-06-10 22:07:12	@tomasino	why destdir, styan?
2020-06-10 22:07:53	styan	It helps with stanging in ports.
2020-06-10 22:08:01	styan	s/stanging/staging/
2020-06-10 22:08:02	@tomasino	ahh, ports has naming conventions?
2020-06-10 22:08:05	@tomasino	okay
2020-06-10 22:08:44	styan	No, it is a common convention, possibly originally from autotools
2020-06-10 22:08:55	@tomasino	i see
2020-06-10 22:09:04	@tomasino	i provided the prefix bit to him, but i don't package or use autotools
2020-06-10 22:09:17	@tomasino	so if it's headed for packages it would be helpful to have those things aligned 
2020-06-10 22:09:25	@tomasino	maybe you can tweak it and send xq a diff
2020-06-10 22:11:47	styan	xq: https://ttm.sh/QWQ.txt
2020-06-10 22:12:38	styan	tomasino: `pb' is your tool, right?
2020-06-10 22:13:24	styan	It does not print a usage message when you give it an invalid option.  ``pb -?''
2020-06-10 22:13:57	@tomasino	it is indeed
2020-06-10 22:14:31	@tomasino	no, but i have -h
2020-06-10 22:14:35	@tomasino	do you use -? a lot?
2020-06-10 22:14:47	styan	It is the first thing I do if there is no man-page.
2020-06-10 22:15:06	styan	It almost always prints the usage message.
2020-06-10 22:15:33	@tomasino	i'll add it
2020-06-10 22:15:35	@tomasino	standby
2020-06-10 22:15:35	styan	While some tools use `-h' for other things.
2020-06-10 22:16:32	styan	tomasino: Cool :-)
2020-06-10 22:17:02	@tomasino	just gotta figure out how to allow a literal ? in getopt
2020-06-10 22:17:25	styan	Oh, getopt, I have never used that one.
2020-06-10 22:17:50	@tomasino	it's ... troublesome
2020-06-10 22:17:54	@tomasino	but highly portable
2020-06-10 22:18:11	styan	Is there a platform without getopts(1)?
2020-06-10 22:18:30	@tomasino	yeah
2020-06-10 22:19:27	@tomasino	specifically there's some old shells that don't
2020-06-10 22:22:32	@ben	i've never seen -? before
2020-06-10 22:22:38	@ben	/? on windows
2020-06-10 22:22:49	@ben	but it's always -h or --help
2020-06-10 22:23:11	styan	getopt(3) and getopts(3) return '?' when an invalid option is encountered.
2020-06-10 22:23:20	@ben	ls: invalid option -- '?'
2020-06-10 22:23:26	styan	So it forces them to handle the case of an invalid option.
2020-06-10 22:23:35	styan	Which normally prints the usage.
2020-06-10 22:23:58	@ben	all of the ones i just tried say invalid option and tell you to use --help instead...
2020-06-10 22:24:19	@tomasino	and i'm not using gnu getopt, so i don't even have long-opts available
2020-06-10 22:24:37	@tomasino	if i used getopts i would, but then it breaks on old ass machines, which at least one person on the tildeverse is doing
2020-06-10 22:24:41	@ben	what tools use -? ?
2020-06-10 22:24:46	@ben	i can't find any that support it
2020-06-10 22:24:58	@ben	i'm curious now cause this is the first time i've heard of that
2020-06-10 22:24:59	@tomasino	ffmpeg does
2020-06-10 22:25:08	@tomasino	but not cat
2020-06-10 22:25:14	styan	Pretty much everything on BSDs
2020-06-10 22:25:18	@ben	fish shell doesn't even let me use that command
2020-06-10 22:25:21	@tomasino	gnu sed supports -?
2020-06-10 22:25:26	styan	cat: illegal option -- ?
2020-06-10 22:25:26	styan	usage: cat [-belnstuv] [file ...]
2020-06-10 22:25:29	@tomasino	bsd sed does not
2020-06-10 22:25:44	@ben	i just get Try 'cat --help' for more information.
2020-06-10 22:25:55	@tomasino	fish is helping you out, sounds like
2020-06-10 22:25:58	@ben	on bsd i get "fish: No matches for wildcard '-?'. See `help expand`."
2020-06-10 22:26:09	@ben	and linux too
2020-06-10 22:26:21	@tomasino	sed: unknown option -- ?
2020-06-10 22:26:21	@tomasino	usage: sed [-aEnru] [-i[extension]] command [file ...]
2020-06-10 22:26:21	@tomasino	       sed [-aEnru] [-e command] [-f command_file] [-i[extension]] [file ...]
2020-06-10 22:26:42	styan	^ That
2020-06-10 22:26:44	@ben	ah well it tells you unknown uption
2020-06-10 22:27:27	styan	That is exactly what I use it to do, give a gurenteed invalid option. :-)
2020-06-10 22:27:40	@tomasino	lemme see what i can do then
2020-06-10 22:27:49	@tomasino	i can at least parse that it's an invalid opt and do something
2020-06-10 22:28:13	@ben	invalid opt should print usage
2020-06-10 22:29:08	@tomasino	yeah, i'm on it
2020-06-10 22:29:09	styan	On a tangent, getopts(1) is in the oldest POSIX version I have a link to: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xcu/getopts.html
2020-06-10 22:29:25	@tomasino	getopt(1) uses getopt(3) which allows you to use the first character as a : to suppress error messages but still return an error code
2020-06-10 22:29:30	@tomasino	i'll use that to trigger a usage message
2020-06-10 22:30:43	styan	Everything else just prints "illegal option" or something similar, if you do not want to bother with that.
2020-06-10 22:38:57	@tomasino	okay
2020-06-10 22:39:01	@tomasino	it's updated
2020-06-10 22:39:04	styan	tomasino: Would you like a man-page for pb(1)?
2020-06-10 22:39:11	@tomasino	there is already a manpage
2020-06-10 22:39:15	@tomasino	man pb
2020-06-10 22:39:26	@tomasino	it's quite extensive
2020-06-10 22:39:32	styan	man: No entry for pb in the manual.
2020-06-10 22:39:37	styan	Not on tilde.black.
2020-06-10 22:39:47	@tomasino	oh, openbsd manpaths are different
2020-06-10 22:39:49	@tomasino	uno momento
2020-06-10 22:40:26	@tomasino	yeah, this makefile doesn't work in openbsd at all
2020-06-10 22:40:32	@tomasino	i'll just manually copy stuff
2020-06-10 22:41:18	@tomasino	there you go
2020-06-10 22:41:45	@tomasino	black is updated and the man page is in place
2020-06-10 22:41:51	styan	Thank you very much. :-)
2020-06-10 22:41:58	@tomasino	i need to gut that manpage and build it up again
2020-06-10 22:42:03	@tomasino	er, makefile i mean
2020-06-10 22:42:06	@tomasino	the manpage is great
2020-06-10 22:42:54	styan	The manpage is, indeed, great.
2020-06-10 22:43:05	styan	I have not seen STANDARDS used like that before.
2020-06-10 22:43:15	@tomasino	:D i based it off the openbsd pages
2020-06-10 22:43:58	@tomasino	man cat and check out STANDARDS
2020-06-10 22:44:28	styan	cat(1) is part of the POSIX standard though.
2020-06-10 22:45:48	@tomasino	hrm, maybe i shouldn't have that in there then
2020-06-10 22:45:49	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-10 22:46:56	styan	You could just say that you are hoping pb(1) will become standard :-)
2020-06-10 22:49:01	@tomasino	eh, removed it
2020-06-10 22:49:23	@tomasino	i was thinking it was saying it was posix compatible aka portible, but i should just avoid the posix language. it's a minefield
2020-06-10 22:49:37	@tomasino	it means a specific thing and not the thing i always think it means
2020-06-10 22:59:29	styan	Reading pb.1 made me realize that I never remembered do add EXIT STATUS to anything.
2020-06-10 23:00:58	@tomasino	hah
2020-06-10 23:01:13	@tomasino	it's a really simple utility at the heart, but it was good practice for writing good documentation
2020-06-10 23:04:41	styan	Oh, all of this shell stuff reminds me that I wrote a gemini to html converter the other day: https://tildegit.org/styan/misc-scripts/src/branch/master/gmi2html.sh
2020-06-10 23:05:29	@tomasino	very nice!
2020-06-10 23:05:37	@tomasino	reminds me of my gopher2gemini awk script
2020-06-10 23:05:43	styan	I am fairly sure that I just wrote it because someone on here mentioned something vaguely similar and I thought it would be fun.
2020-06-10 23:05:54	@tomasino	can't go wrong with that
2020-06-11 00:08:32	xq	*yiss*
2020-06-11 00:08:41	xq	i have now support for persistent certificates as well
2020-06-11 00:11:49	xq	i really love how astrobotany is auto-themed green :D
2020-06-11 00:49:35	xq	for those of you who want to play astrobotany: Kristall now has support for persistent certificates
2020-06-11 00:52:33	styan	"astrobotany" sounds cooler than the sum of its parts.  It is a fun word.
2020-06-11 02:14:33	▬▬▶	woold has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 02:45:14		woold has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 05:35:17		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-11 05:38:55		gbmor has quit (quit: mfer)
2020-06-11 05:39:51	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 05:43:13	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 06:27:07		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 06:29:32	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 06:29:33	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-11 06:45:48	epoch	how about domains in the requests that have a trailing . in them?
2020-06-11 06:46:05	epoch	like, gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net./ ?
2020-06-11 06:46:10	epoch	are servers handling those properly?
2020-06-11 06:46:44	epoch	mine isn't even looking at the hostname or scheme portions of the request so you could put whatever you wanted.
2020-06-11 06:55:03	styan	I know Jetforce checks the hostname by default.
2020-06-11 06:56:15	styan	It makes connecting to gemini://tilde.black/ over Tor obnoxious for clients that do not support proxying.
2020-06-11 06:57:46	styan	s/obnoxious/impossible/
2020-06-11 06:57:57	epoch	oh yeah, I broke my gemini over onion stuff.
2020-06-11 06:58:04	styan	It is obnoxious for clients that support proxying.
2020-06-11 07:01:12	⚡	epoch adds onion.thebackupbox.net to gemini cert
2020-06-11 07:02:54	epoch	hrm.
2020-06-11 07:03:05	epoch	probably going to use gemini.onion.thebackupbox.net
2020-06-11 07:03:32	epoch	A record it to the letsencrypt responder, then CNAME it to the onion
2020-06-11 07:04:13	epoch	then people can connect to the hidden service using a real hostname if they want to
2020-06-11 07:18:15	ℹ 	epoch is now known as `epochbot
2020-06-11 07:29:35	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 07:30:30		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 10:14:24	xq	hey people
2020-06-11 10:14:47	@tomasino	hay people
2020-06-11 10:14:52	@tomasino	aka horses
2020-06-11 10:19:09	xq	astrobotany has awoken an itch in me…
2020-06-11 10:19:24	xq	i wanted to do a "browser game" for a long time now …
2020-06-11 10:19:35	xq	maybe gemspace is the right place to get started
2020-06-11 10:28:50	xq	> Your plant was recently watered by tiwesdaeg.
2020-06-11 10:28:51	xq	thanks!
2020-06-11 10:32:54	@tomasino	astrobotany is pretty cool
2020-06-11 10:33:26	@tomasino	so, what do i have to do to do that sort of thing?
2020-06-11 10:33:32	@tomasino	lets say with kristall
2020-06-11 10:34:27	xq	to play astrobotany?
2020-06-11 10:34:30	@tomasino	xq:../src/certificateselectiondialog.cpp:66:10: fatal error: QRandomGenerator: No such file or directory
2020-06-11 10:34:35	@tomasino	on the latest source
2020-06-11 10:34:46	@tomasino	yeah. i need to do some sort of cert thingy, right?
2020-06-11 10:34:56	xq	yeah
2020-06-11 10:35:12	xq	just open gemini://astrobotany.mozz.us, click "get to gardening" and create a new persistent certificate :)
2020-06-11 10:35:24	xq	what's your qt version?
2020-06-11 10:35:32	xq	it's there since Qt 5.10
2020-06-11 10:35:53	@tomasino	lemme see
2020-06-11 10:36:04	@tomasino	okay, how do i see
2020-06-11 10:36:05	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-11 10:36:50	xq	do you have qtdiag available?
2020-06-11 10:37:00	styan	`qmake -v'?
2020-06-11 10:37:28	xq	yeah that may also help
2020-06-11 10:37:58	@tomasino	5.9.5
2020-06-11 10:38:03	@tomasino	qtdiag worked
2020-06-11 10:39:02	xq	hm, okay
2020-06-11 10:39:07	xq	lemme do a workaround
2020-06-11 10:39:23	xq	need to touch that place anyways
2020-06-11 10:39:34	@tomasino	"create a new persistent certificate" this is the part i have no idea how to do
2020-06-11 10:40:04	@tomasino	it would be a good subject of a gemlog for someone. :D
2020-06-11 10:40:13	@tomasino	i'd also like to cover it in my video i'm going to record soon
2020-06-11 10:41:29	@tomasino	updating my notes to reflect that
2020-06-11 10:41:31	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-11 10:41:55	xq	tomasino: trust me, you'll see!
2020-06-11 10:41:59	xq	it's 100% user friendly
2020-06-11 10:43:22	xq	try again, removed the dep on QRandomGenerator
2020-06-11 10:44:15	@tomasino	kk
2020-06-11 10:45:25	@tomasino	compiles, though you're starting to get warnings
2020-06-11 10:45:26	@tomasino	../src/gopherclient.cpp: In member function ‘void GopherClient::on_readRead()’:                                                                                                            
2020-06-11 10:45:26	@tomasino	../src/gopherclient.cpp:72:12: warning: init-statement in selection statements only available with -std=c++1z or -std=gnu++1z 
2020-06-11 10:45:45	styan	xq: I just tried updating Kristal, and it crashed when I started it.
2020-06-11 10:46:24	styan	xq: https://ttm.sh/QWC.txt
2020-06-11 10:46:41	xq	ah damn. that's nothing i can remote-debug :(
2020-06-11 10:47:20	@tomasino	looks like the next message on startup would normally be....
2020-06-11 10:47:21	@tomasino	QMetaObject::connectSlotsByName: No matching signal for on_focus_inputbar()
2020-06-11 10:47:21	@tomasino	QMetaObject::connectSlotsByName: No matching signal for on_media_positionChanged(qlonglong)
2020-06-11 10:47:39	@tomasino	anywho, kristall running here and looks great. I like the mime-type in teh footer
2020-06-11 10:47:58	@tomasino	enable client certificate in this tab
2020-06-11 10:47:59	@tomasino	oooh
2020-06-11 10:48:00	xq	those messages are okay, it's probably something i fucked up, but doesn't hurt
2020-06-11 10:48:32	xq	tomasino: do you see now what i mean by "just create a permanent client certificate?"
2020-06-11 10:48:32	xq	:D
2020-06-11 10:49:00	xq	styan: what OS are you on?
2020-06-11 10:49:08	xq	maybe i need another VM…
2020-06-11 10:49:44	@tomasino	oooh
2020-06-11 10:49:45	@tomasino	yeah
2020-06-11 10:49:48	@tomasino	this is pretty
2020-06-11 10:50:54	@tomasino	hrm, how to i make it permanent?
2020-06-11 10:50:59	@tomasino	there's expiration dates on everything
2020-06-11 10:51:34	xq	yes, certificates require expiration dates
2020-06-11 10:51:43	xq	jut set expiration to like 5 years or so
2020-06-11 10:51:52	@tomasino	or.... 2090
2020-06-11 10:51:53	@tomasino	got it
2020-06-11 10:51:57	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-11 10:52:00	xq	yeah :D
2020-06-11 10:52:09	styan	xq: It was just QT not supporting LibreSSL, but still linking to it.
2020-06-11 10:52:10	@tomasino	if i make it to 110 years old, that'll be a problem for future me
2020-06-11 10:52:55	xq	yeah i had the fear that this may happen :(
2020-06-11 10:54:30	@tomasino	where/how are the certificates stored?
2020-06-11 10:54:45	@tomasino	would i be able to use the same one betwe different clients?
2020-06-11 10:55:13	@tomasino	also, holy crap... astrobotony is awesome
2020-06-11 10:55:14	xq	not right now
2020-06-11 10:55:19	xq	i embed them in the settings file
2020-06-11 10:55:25	xq	(like everything else)
2020-06-11 10:55:30	@tomasino	gotcha
2020-06-11 10:55:39	xq	but i want to provide means to import/export PEM and DER key-certificates-pairs :)
2020-06-11 10:56:27	xq	btw, if any of you uses a cool color scheme, share them!
2020-06-11 10:56:27	xq	:)
2020-06-11 10:56:32	@tomasino	yeah, i see that ab has ansi color support, so i was gonna check it in av98
2020-06-11 10:56:33	xq	it's now possible to export color schemes
2020-06-11 10:56:48	xq	ansi color support would be … interesting in Kristall
2020-06-11 10:56:56	xq	have to parse the whole color coding stuff in the document :D
2020-06-11 10:59:49	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QWR.kthm
2020-06-11 11:00:10	@tomasino	oh yeah, i wouldn't expect it to work in kristall
2020-06-11 11:01:19	xq	i'm thinking about support for it though… :D
2020-06-11 11:01:51	@tomasino	well that'd be stellar if you can pick out color codes that way
2020-06-11 11:01:59	xq	also i think about recognizing kthm files and instead of serving them flat as text/plain i provide a preview and means to import/use the theme directly
2020-06-11 11:02:53	xq	also: nice theme!
2020-06-11 11:03:20	styan	xq: As you might have guessed https://ttm.sh/QW1.kthm
2020-06-11 11:04:28	xq	i would include both schemes in the preset folder in the repo if you're okay with this :)
2020-06-11 11:08:20	styan	Importing presets is not working for me.
2020-06-11 11:08:24	@tomasino	i'm going to town on your makefile
2020-06-11 11:08:35	@tomasino	should have support for an icon for you in a sec
2020-06-11 11:08:53	@tomasino	do you have one made?
2020-06-11 11:09:46	@tomasino	i'm using Castor's makefile for reference. looks like he's got all the proper vars in here and is addressing all the same needs
2020-06-11 11:10:30	xq	tomasino: there's an icon in src/icons/kristall.svg
2020-06-11 11:10:53	xq	styan: you sure? the import is a bit clunky atm, it does only import the preset into the list, you have to manually load it afterwards
2020-06-11 11:10:58	xq	probably going to change this
2020-06-11 11:12:01	@tomasino	awesome
2020-06-11 11:12:16	@tomasino	what's your development domain xq?
2020-06-11 11:12:28	@tomasino	icons installed have a reverse domain convention
2020-06-11 11:13:04	xq	i'm a full stack developer by day and a crazy scientist by night :D
2020-06-11 11:13:12	styan	Oh, there is a load preset button.
2020-06-11 11:13:25	@tomasino	this is really, really friendly, xq
2020-06-11 11:13:50	xq	doing a lot of hobby coding in embedded/low level stuff including my own computer/isa
2020-06-11 11:14:27	xq	tomasino: wdym? :)
2020-06-11 11:14:34	@tomasino	de.masterq32.kristall 
2020-06-11 11:14:37	@tomasino	or something
2020-06-11 11:14:41	@tomasino	not sure which one you want to use
2020-06-11 11:14:43	xq	oh, i misunderstood the question :D
2020-06-11 11:15:01	xq	go for net.random-projects.kristall
2020-06-11 11:15:04	@tomasino	kk
2020-06-11 11:19:05	@tomasino	gonna actually PR this one
2020-06-11 11:21:58	styan	xq: Sure you can use that theme for a default (I highly doubt that two bits could be considered "artistic expression" or anything like that), maybe you can call it something cooler like "Inverse Monochrome", or "VT100"  :-)
2020-06-11 11:23:08	xq	well it's definitly no VT-100, the font is too thin! :D
2020-06-11 11:25:30	@tomasino	got it working
2020-06-11 11:25:50	xq	👍
2020-06-11 11:26:43	@tomasino	okay, PR sent
2020-06-11 11:28:59	xq	isn't ?= the variant you want to use when not overriding a existing var?
2020-06-11 11:30:20	@tomasino	it is indeed
2020-06-11 11:30:32	@tomasino	i copied castors and didn't even notice he wasn't ?= ing
2020-06-11 11:30:41	@tomasino	would make it awfully hard to override
2020-06-11 11:30:48	@tomasino	one sec
2020-06-11 11:30:49	@tomasino	i'll fix it
2020-06-11 11:30:52	styan	`make var=value' overrides even plain `='s
2020-06-11 11:31:16	xq	ah, good to know :)
2020-06-11 11:31:34	styan	It is a useful trick :-)
2020-06-11 11:31:40	@tomasino	interesting
2020-06-11 11:31:45	@tomasino	i thought that's what ?= was for
2020-06-11 11:32:06	styan	`?=' will not overwrite environment variables.
2020-06-11 11:32:22	@tomasino	only if not set
2020-06-11 11:32:24	@tomasino	gotcha
2020-06-11 11:32:26	@tomasino	okay
2020-06-11 11:32:28	styan	Which are often used for packaging, and the like.
2020-06-11 11:32:31	@tomasino	so this is fine as is,then
2020-06-11 11:33:15	styan	Yep, you can just add the definitien to MAKEFLAGES.
2020-06-11 11:33:27	styan	s/FLAGES/FLAGS/
2020-06-11 11:35:07	xq	looks good then, hitting merge :)
2020-06-11 11:36:57	xq	how can i change file names depending on the OS?
2020-06-11 11:37:10	xq	MacOS X needs .app as a suffix, Windows needs .exe
2020-06-11 11:37:45	@tomasino	doesn't the app need to be a folder in a certain structure?
2020-06-11 11:38:09	styan	^ Yes.
2020-06-11 11:38:48	@tomasino	if you want, you can create specific targets for each one and use some logic to determine which to run like so: https://github.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles/blob/master/Makefile#L6-L24
2020-06-11 11:38:58	styan	And Windows would not run a Makefile anyway.
2020-06-11 11:39:05	@tomasino	and there's that
2020-06-11 11:39:06	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-11 11:39:06	styan	bat vs sh
2020-06-11 11:40:19	@tomasino	that makefile example above is an old one and doesn't account for BSDs
2020-06-11 11:40:26	@tomasino	but you can get the basic idea from it
2020-06-11 11:41:18	styan	Also, it is a GNUMakefile, to be pedantic. :-)
2020-06-11 11:42:07	@tomasino	it is indeed
2020-06-11 11:42:14	styan	Every time I see complex Makefiles I just want to rewrite them in mk(1)...
2020-06-11 11:42:24	styan	mk is cool
2020-06-11 11:42:56	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/ts-boilerplate/blob/master/Makefile
2020-06-11 11:43:39	@tomasino	complex makefile for great justice
2020-06-11 11:55:23	@tomasino	ugh, Petite Abeille again
2020-06-11 12:29:14	styan	tomasino: Your makefile would look something like this in mk: https://ttm.sh/QWk.mk
2020-06-11 12:29:46	styan	Caveat, mk does not support spaces in file-names at all.
2020-06-11 12:31:32	@tomasino	not bad
2020-06-11 12:31:40	@tomasino	it's quite readable
2020-06-11 12:32:44	styan	mk is interesting in that it lets the shell handle all of the programming bits, and it just handles the dependency tree and calling the shell.
2020-06-11 12:35:49	@tomasino	that's handy
2020-06-11 12:35:57	@tomasino	the shell is solid at that stuff already
2020-06-11 12:44:40	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 12:45:35	thombles	evening fellow astronauts
2020-06-11 12:45:53	xq	hey thombles
2020-06-11 12:46:04	@tomasino	yo
2020-06-11 12:46:38	~tiwesdaeg	morning all
2020-06-11 12:49:25	~tiwesdaeg	windows and macos are probably best distributed as binaries
2020-06-11 12:51:43	xq	yeah, true
2020-06-11 12:52:01	xq	i should set up github CI to do nightly builds of the windows/macos version
2020-06-11 12:53:10	thombles	github actions for win/mac is great
2020-06-11 12:53:37	~tiwesdaeg	you can have github do the compilation?
2020-06-11 12:54:07	thombles	Yeah they have VMs hosting visual studio and Xcode, free up to a runtime limit
2020-06-11 12:54:37	thombles	New thing since MS took over - I assume it's all running on azure
2020-06-11 12:54:54	xq	yeah, probably
2020-06-11 12:55:05	xq	thombles, do you have experience using github CI with qt?
2020-06-11 12:55:37	thombles	Not qt specifically. But generally speaking you have admin access and at least on linux I was able to apt-get whatever deps I needed before doing my buidl
2020-06-11 12:55:41	~tiwesdaeg	that's really handy
2020-06-11 12:56:23	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I've been using your auto-theming as default
2020-06-11 12:56:29	~tiwesdaeg	I really like how it's working out
2020-06-11 12:56:46	xq	thanks
2020-06-11 12:56:58	xq	i really like that some stuff is fitting
2020-06-11 12:57:02	xq	like astrobotany is green :D
2020-06-11 12:57:20	~tiwesdaeg	mine is green too
2020-06-11 12:57:35	~tiwesdaeg	is it random?
2020-06-11 12:57:47	thombles	I haven't seen a colourisation scheme like that since I was using IRC in xchat... maybe 10 years ago
2020-06-11 12:58:00	thombles	It adds so much character so easily, it's great
2020-06-11 12:59:19	~tiwesdaeg	compiling kristall on this old core 2 duo vs my ryzen desktop at home
2020-06-11 12:59:22	xq	tiwesdaeg: kinda. i hash the domain name and use that for color/saturation generation
2020-06-11 12:59:45	⚡	tiwesdaeg waits
2020-06-11 12:59:55	xq	i'm going to try building Kristall for Android…
2020-06-11 13:00:07	~tiwesdaeg	so, everyone should have the same experience on each instance
2020-06-11 13:00:13	xq	yes
2020-06-11 13:00:13	~tiwesdaeg	please!
2020-06-11 13:00:19	xq	if that works, i'll add an improved mobile interface
2020-06-11 13:00:31	xq	for both linux and android
2020-06-11 13:00:42	xq	→ pinephone users get first-class mobile experience browser :D
2020-06-11 13:01:05	~tiwesdaeg	I wouldn't mind a pinephone
2020-06-11 13:01:12	xq	me neither
2020-06-11 13:01:13	xq	:D
2020-06-11 13:01:19	xq	i'm really tempted to get one
2020-06-11 13:01:20	~tiwesdaeg	I'm tempted to order a pinebook pro
2020-06-11 13:01:35	xq	but i think i'll wait some months still, got a new phone in november
2020-06-11 13:02:15	~tiwesdaeg	I've been on my nexus 5x for over 4 years
2020-06-11 13:02:45	~tiwesdaeg	my wife's died of the bootloop issue that plagues all the nexus 5x's
2020-06-11 13:02:50	xq	yeah i try to keep my phone as long as possible
2020-06-11 13:02:52	~tiwesdaeg	mine just won't die
2020-06-11 13:02:57	xq	last phone held 7 years :D
2020-06-11 13:11:43	thombles	those pinebook pros are reviewing very well for the price
2020-06-11 13:19:47	wgreenhouse	thombles: if you try one, report back
2020-06-11 13:19:57	wgreenhouse	I have a vow not to early-adopt crowdfunded hardware
2020-06-11 13:20:34	thombles	not likely in the short term, I'm in the market for a cheap linux laptop for CTFing but until conferences are happening I'm holding off
2020-06-11 13:20:49	thombles	there were a couple of detailed reviews on lobsters in recent weeks though
2020-06-11 13:21:34	xq	i can not-recommend the TERES I as a cheap ARM machine
2020-06-11 13:21:48	thombles	good to know lol
2020-06-11 13:22:07	thombles	what was the key disappointment?
2020-06-11 13:22:14	xq	idea is good, but 2 Gigs of RAM and a unusable touch pad
2020-06-11 13:22:18	xq	also sound is janky
2020-06-11 13:22:52	xq	it's self-assembly, but that shouldn't be a problem
2020-06-11 13:23:15	thombles	hmm yeah that's not enough ram unless you're seriously invested in gemini
2020-06-11 13:23:22	xq	hehe
2020-06-11 13:23:31	xq	it could be used as a perfect gemini browsing machine :D
2020-06-11 13:23:39	xq	but compiling qt may be a pain already
2020-06-11 13:23:40	wgreenhouse	I can similarly disrecommend the v1 pi-top
2020-06-11 13:23:45	wgreenhouse	power management stuff is janky
2020-06-11 13:24:03	wgreenhouse	ended up somehow bricking the battery control board, and that pi3b is now hooked up to a motorola lapdock
2020-06-11 13:25:58	thombles	I can put up with how slow pis are (and the pi4 is not that bad tbh) but the SD storage is just no good for general use
2020-06-11 13:26:24	xq	yeah
2020-06-11 13:26:58	thombles	I am ignorant, is there a machine filling the gap somewhere between a Pi4 and a NUC that will let me use real storage?
2020-06-11 13:27:58	xq	there is the rockpi which provides a M.2 slot
2020-06-11 13:28:10	xq	i have one and i'm unhappy because of software support
2020-06-11 13:28:22	thombles	ooh never heard of it
2020-06-11 13:28:41	thombles	what sort of support problems?
2020-06-11 13:35:06	xq	i couldn't find a stripped-down distro
2020-06-11 13:35:06	xq	https://wiki.radxa.com/Rockpi4/downloads
2020-06-11 13:35:13	xq	these are all prebuilt without much documentation :(
2020-06-11 13:36:01	xq	i wasn't very happy with it, but i hadn't really a use case
2020-06-11 13:36:12	xq	my 2 pis are doing their job well
2020-06-11 13:36:51	thombles	hmm I see
2020-06-11 13:42:31	~tiwesdaeg	pine64 has some board with RK3399's as wel
2020-06-11 13:47:10	@tomasino	jetforce on ~black updated to 0.4.0
2020-06-11 13:48:13	@tomasino	and cosmic too
2020-06-11 14:19:52	~tiwesdaeg	I wonder if gemserv has any updates
2020-06-11 14:36:14	xq	i think it had some the last days fixing bugs with spaces in file names :D
2020-06-11 14:38:50	xq	my laptop is burning
2020-06-11 14:39:48	~tiwesdaeg	too much compiling?
2020-06-11 14:42:49	xq	yep
2020-06-11 14:42:56	xq	qt5 for android aarch64 and arm
2020-06-11 14:50:50		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 14:50:53	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 14:55:08	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 14:59:14		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 15:25:26	~tiwesdaeg	nice
2020-06-11 15:25:39	~tiwesdaeg	time for a production machine
2020-06-11 15:31:57	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 15:47:16		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 15:51:58	▬▬▶	lickthecheese has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 15:52:36		lickthecheese has quit (Changing host)
2020-06-11 15:52:36	▬▬▶	lickthecheese has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 15:52:42	xq	okay, no Qt/Android for me…
2020-06-11 15:52:47	xq	my system is too new
2020-06-11 15:57:39	ℹ 	lickthecheese is now known as lick|archbtw
2020-06-11 16:03:40	~tiwesdaeg	xq: are the tools al old?
2020-06-11 16:03:54	~tiwesdaeg	man, typing is poor today
2020-06-11 16:04:25	xq	dunno, openjdk complains that java 6 is not supported anymore and i should use java7
2020-06-11 16:04:27	xq	or something
2020-06-11 16:06:15	xq	i tried using NDK once before and it didn't work out as well
2020-06-11 16:06:19	xq	it's a horrible mess
2020-06-11 16:11:14		exprez135 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 16:11:46	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 16:11:54	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-06-11 16:12:29	~tiwesdaeg	any other options to move forward?
2020-06-11 16:13:27	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 16:13:49	xq	good question
2020-06-11 16:13:58	xq	i'll may check out if there's a docker image or something
2020-06-11 16:22:39		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 16:25:17		exprez135 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 16:26:44	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 17:00:44	acdw	i have spent way too much time working on url munging
2020-06-11 17:03:02	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 17:03:31	kensanata	🚀
2020-06-11 17:03:42	kensanata	☁☁☁
2020-06-11 17:07:54	kensanata	On a scale from 0 to 1, where do you see text/html pages on Gemini?
2020-06-11 17:08:34	@tomasino	√-1
2020-06-11 17:08:37	xq	0.5 ?
2020-06-11 17:09:05	kensanata	Heh.
2020-06-11 17:10:23	~tiwesdaeg	C
2020-06-11 17:10:26	kensanata	I'm dreaming of the day where I just switch off the HTML interface to my wiki and it'll be 100% Gemini, haha
2020-06-11 17:10:57	kensanata	I wonder if anybody would install a Gemini-Wiki.
2020-06-11 17:10:57	~tiwesdaeg	I was thinking about the wiki concept on gemini this morning
2020-06-11 17:11:14	kensanata	Do tell!
2020-06-11 17:11:14	~tiwesdaeg	how to do submissions
2020-06-11 17:11:36	~tiwesdaeg	maybe a system where you sends diffs via email
2020-06-11 17:11:51	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: Becaus you need somebody to review them?
2020-06-11 17:12:00	~tiwesdaeg	no, just to apply them
2020-06-11 17:12:12	~tiwesdaeg	since you can only send single lines from clients
2020-06-11 17:12:17	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: You don't like the option to simply add upload capabilities?
2020-06-11 17:12:46	~tiwesdaeg	People have created guestbooks so far
2020-06-11 17:12:56	~tiwesdaeg	and some "like" options
2020-06-11 17:13:00	kensanata	I have a client and a server that work together and have edited my wiki using it.
2020-06-11 17:13:13	~tiwesdaeg	but what if you have a complex page, like a wikipedia article on a specific plant species
2020-06-11 17:13:19	kensanata	Sure.
2020-06-11 17:13:24	kensanata	One-liners won't do.
2020-06-11 17:13:49	~tiwesdaeg	how do the edits work?
2020-06-11 17:14:00	kensanata	Using an extension to the protocol.
2020-06-11 17:14:56	xq	oh, server is a good trigger for me…
2020-06-11 17:15:09	xq	next up: write the antipiece to Kristall for fancy server stuff :D
2020-06-11 17:15:10	kensanata	Basically you send an URL with the gemini+write scheme, e.g. gemini+write://alexschroeder.ch/raw/Test \n hello \n text/plain \n 10 \n ten bytes!
2020-06-11 17:15:12	~tiwesdaeg	what does the process look like from a user perspective
2020-06-11 17:15:50	xq	kensanata: that's actually a goof idea to use a different protocol for uploads
2020-06-11 17:15:53	xq	*good
2020-06-11 17:16:00	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: In my client, I visit the "Raw page" link at the bottom of a Gemini page, then I press "e" to edit the plain text, then C-c C-c to save it, and I'm redirected back to the Gemini page.
2020-06-11 17:16:13	kensanata	xq: baschdel actually suggested it
2020-06-11 17:16:43	kensanata	And baschdel has a different suggestion for doing it (and wrote a proposal).
2020-06-11 17:16:50	xq	oh, can you link that?
2020-06-11 17:16:59	xq	i would love to see an upload option for files without http
2020-06-11 17:17:05	~tiwesdaeg	that's prett neat
2020-06-11 17:17:35	kensanata	My proposal is described here: gemini://alexschroeder.ch/2020-06-05_Gemini_Write and it includes examples for posting from the command line.
2020-06-11 17:17:37	~tiwesdaeg	this falls outside the spec then?
2020-06-11 17:17:45	kensanata	Totally, yes.
2020-06-11 17:18:17	kensanata	My proposal just falls outside the spec when it comes to the single upload capability. Baschdel's proposal is a bit more involved.
2020-06-11 17:18:27	acdw	you ... *could* (??) ... do edits with an 'ed' type interface using only status 10 ??
2020-06-11 17:18:31	~tiwesdaeg	That's probably why I was stuck on using something like email for uploads
2020-06-11 17:18:45	kensanata	Baschdel's proposal is here: gemini://alexschroeder.ch/Baschdels_spin_on_Gemini_uploading
2020-06-11 17:19:04	kensanata	acdw: Hehehe, yes... you could...
2020-06-11 17:19:31	kensanata	How does one make a nice short video on a Linux laptop?
2020-06-11 17:20:37	kensanata	Hm. I see there's "Deepin Screen Recorder".
2020-06-11 17:20:46	acdw	:P
2020-06-11 17:20:56	acdw	I've never recorded my screen, sadly
2020-06-11 17:20:57	~tiwesdaeg	I've used kdenlive for editing
2020-06-11 17:21:12	~tiwesdaeg	never recorded the screen though
2020-06-11 17:21:29	~tiwesdaeg	xq has
2020-06-11 17:21:38	kensanata	Sometimes I don't understand software people. "SimpleScreenRecorder is a feature-rich screen recorder..." how can it be both.
2020-06-11 17:21:46	xq	kensanata: "peek" tool
2020-06-11 17:22:01	xq	https://github.com/phw/peek
2020-06-11 17:23:17	@tomasino	i use https://toobnix.org/videos/watch/5fbbb775-bf63-4866-b126-acdc317ee7e3
2020-06-11 17:23:37	kensanata	Oh, nice. Peek also comes wi
2020-06-11 17:23:47	kensanata	th this distro.
2020-06-11 17:24:16	@tomasino	i wanted one that did the webcam with it
2020-06-11 17:24:27	@tomasino	vokoscreenNG is nice
2020-06-11 17:24:34	@tomasino	off to laser tag! peace
2020-06-11 17:24:35	xq	tomasino: OBS Studio is probably really good
2020-06-11 17:24:39	xq	have fun!
2020-06-11 17:25:45	acdw	My coworker swears by OBS Studio
2020-06-11 17:25:57	acdw	Didn't realize it was available for Linux tho
2020-06-11 17:26:32	xq	heh
2020-06-11 17:26:35	xq	afaik it originated on linux
2020-06-11 17:28:40	xq	hmmm
2020-06-11 17:28:50	~tiwesdaeg	did they ever hash out comments in the message board?
2020-06-11 17:28:55	xq	the upload protocol looks way mor ecomplex to me than gemini :D
2020-06-11 17:29:50	acdw	xq: cool!
2020-06-11 17:30:14	acdw	tiwesdaeg : you mean like gemini replies on the mailing list? afaik no
2020-06-11 17:30:22	acdw	it's still the wild west out there
2020-06-11 17:30:37	~tiwesdaeg	like using ``` lines as a way to comment
2020-06-11 17:30:42	bard	ffmpeg works pretty well for recording your screen, but it may take you a bit to figure out the right arguments and such
2020-06-11 17:31:15	acdw	oh no I don't think so -- there's still the real possibility of having alt-text after the ```, which I am very in favor of
2020-06-11 17:32:12	acdw	Even though I know solderpunk said > lines will be the last line-type, i'd be down for some comment linetype
2020-06-11 17:32:21	acdw	though that might be better suited for authoring software
2020-06-11 17:32:52	acdw	since gemini is supposed to be lean on the pipe, having comments in the transmitted source of pages doesn't make a ton of sense
2020-06-11 17:37:59	kensanata	Ok, got a 50s movie using Peek.
2020-06-11 17:38:07	kensanata	Now I need to add some music...
2020-06-11 17:38:08	kensanata	Hahaha
2020-06-11 17:38:12	~tiwesdaeg	does it have great music?
2020-06-11 17:38:21	kensanata	It has the Sound of Silence!
2020-06-11 17:38:23	~tiwesdaeg	'cause I don't have sound
2020-06-11 17:38:33	kensanata	I guess then it's perfect!
2020-06-11 17:45:45		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 17:54:31	kensanata	There you go: https://alexschroeder.ch/videos/gemini_write_demo.mp4
2020-06-11 17:54:35	kensanata	With music.
2020-06-11 17:59:00	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 18:04:08		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 18:15:12	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 18:15:39	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 18:15:51		thombles has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 18:17:56		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 18:31:00		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 18:45:38	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 18:54:52		notandinus has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 18:56:37	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 19:16:27	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 20:11:41	@tomasino	tiwesdaeg: whatever astrobotany is doing for their message board is fantastic as far as commenting goes, if one is looking for that open-engagement type thing
2020-06-11 20:12:27	@tomasino	solderpunk has mentioned he'll likely have a ruling on alt text before the next spec freeze, so hopefully very soon
2020-06-11 20:42:25	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 20:42:54	kensanata	🚀🚀 – I feel that Gemini deserves twin rockets.
2020-06-11 20:43:12	@tomasino	good call
2020-06-11 20:43:47		plugd has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 20:49:12	@tomasino	oh look: solderpunk addressing kensanata and xq about uploading on fedi
2020-06-11 20:49:15	@tomasino	perfect timing you guys
2020-06-11 20:51:03	xq	huh, can you link that?
2020-06-11 20:51:12	kensanata	tomasino: Now I'm thinking: has it come to this? Did I need a video to explain how a plain text protocol could be extended‽
2020-06-11 20:51:25	kensanata	xq: https://tilde.zone/@solderpunk/104327315960580927
2020-06-11 20:52:29	xq	thanks!
2020-06-11 20:57:23	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-11 20:57:30	@tomasino	i do intend on recording my gemini vid tonight
2020-06-11 20:57:36	@tomasino	gonna make some coffee here shortly
2020-06-11 20:57:40	xq	\o/
2020-06-11 20:59:34	kensanata	tomasino: That sounds like you already have other videos?
2020-06-11 20:59:45	@tomasino	i have one on gopher and one on git
2020-06-11 21:00:00	@tomasino	https://toobnix.org/videos/watch/1b9699da-3c41-48a8-8009-97b756e88a3d
2020-06-11 21:00:02	@tomasino	gopher ^
2020-06-11 21:00:22	@tomasino	https://toobnix.org/videos/watch/74b2b149-3c64-42db-a166-3f12ea241216
2020-06-11 21:00:23	@tomasino	git ^
2020-06-11 21:00:40	@tomasino	my fancy-pants ssh key management system using lastpass - https://toobnix.org/videos/watch/7723d336-96be-4559-8b3c-336daf6d7367
2020-06-11 21:01:45	kensanata	OK, bookmarking these!
2020-06-11 21:01:56	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-11 21:03:19	kensanata	Nice mic setup!
2020-06-11 21:04:11	kensanata	I have small Snowball mic for my podcast...
2020-06-11 21:04:40	kensanata	Does anybody do anything with the language tag?
2020-06-11 21:04:58	kensanata	The mailing list is like a firehose!
2020-06-11 21:06:44	@tomasino	yeah, it's redic
2020-06-11 21:06:55	@tomasino	but i stay on just in case someone tries to screw with text/gemini
2020-06-11 21:07:04	@tomasino	that's pretty much the only spot i have *opinions*
2020-06-11 21:07:10	xq	heh
2020-06-11 21:07:22	xq	it's really on fire, i stopped reading discussions as well :D
2020-06-11 21:07:31	@tomasino	and i hang out in here to test peoples clients and give feedabck and occasionally mess with a makefile
2020-06-11 21:11:04	xq	and that's awesome! :)
2020-06-11 21:11:11	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-11 21:11:48	~tiwesdaeg	nice: presets/tomasino.kthm
2020-06-11 21:13:08	@tomasino	thanks
2020-06-11 21:13:16	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't seen it yet
2020-06-11 21:13:24	~tiwesdaeg	just building currently
2020-06-11 21:14:43	~tiwesdaeg	I guess I have to manually copy the preset somewhere
2020-06-11 21:16:13	xq	you can import the preset in the settings menu :)
2020-06-11 21:16:21	xq	not 100% convenient atm
2020-06-11 21:16:35	@tomasino	it's not nothin'
2020-06-11 21:16:40	~tiwesdaeg	just did
2020-06-11 21:16:52	@tomasino	are we kristall twins now?
2020-06-11 21:17:17	~tiwesdaeg	by the power of kristall, form of twins!
2020-06-11 21:17:18		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 21:17:26	⚡	tomasino takes the form of a wet sock
2020-06-11 21:17:27	xq	\o/
2020-06-11 21:17:33	xq	ROFL
2020-06-11 21:17:49	⚡	tiwesdaeg uses wet sock to defeat the evil html
2020-06-11 21:18:27	@tomasino	well done
2020-06-11 21:48:37	kensanata	I don't know why I always postpone writing tests. When I finally get to it, it feels so good. No longer always on the brink of disaster.
2020-06-11 21:49:23	xq	:)
2020-06-11 21:51:38	kensanata	And with that, I'm off to bed. Good night, astronauts!
2020-06-11 22:04:42	@tomasino	Night
2020-06-11 22:08:23		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-11 22:12:03	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 22:47:28		lick|archbtw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 22:54:23	▬▬▶	lickthecheese has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 22:54:46		lickthecheese has quit (Changing host)
2020-06-11 22:54:46	▬▬▶	lickthecheese has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 22:55:34	ℹ 	lickthecheese is now known as lickthearch
2020-06-11 22:57:43		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-11 23:17:34	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-11 23:27:17	thombles	sorry for the noise, I forgot this laptop will sleep haphazardly which plays poorly with irssi
2020-06-11 23:46:02	@tomasino	i just recorded my gemini video
2020-06-11 23:46:10	@tomasino	will be posting to peertube & youtube shortly
2020-06-12 00:02:49	@tomasino	peertube is still transcoding, but youtube is ready - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoEI6VzybDk&feature=youtu.be
2020-06-12 00:06:08	@tomasino	and here's peertube half-transcoded... still waiting on HD - https://toobnix.org/videos/watch/8ee54700-971c-4da3-a8b4-7a78ed9ac42e
2020-06-12 00:09:31		m68k has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 00:18:12	styan	xq: I see Kristall ^
2020-06-12 00:18:49	@tomasino	Kristall is front and center!
2020-06-12 00:19:02	@tomasino	Castor gets a shout out, and Av98 for a minute
2020-06-12 00:19:16	xq	oh neat
2020-06-12 00:19:17	xq	much love
2020-06-12 00:19:47	@tomasino	❤️
2020-06-12 00:22:34	@tomasino	oh nice, i just checked the #gemini fedi hashtag and found my own peertube post there
2020-06-12 00:22:37	@tomasino	i love federation
2020-06-12 00:33:30	styan	tomasino - "I don't think anyone has made an Android client just yet".  Also on screen "=> A Gemini client for Android [HTTPS]" :-)
2020-06-12 00:34:10	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-12 00:34:23	@tomasino	comment away about it
2020-06-12 00:34:55	@tomasino	and of course do so if i say anything incorrect or misleading
2020-06-12 00:35:39	styan	Your window manager looks cool for presentations, with the easy tile resizing.
2020-06-12 00:36:11	@tomasino	thanks... it's... (looks around)... gnome
2020-06-12 00:36:12	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-12 00:38:58	xq	now watching
2020-06-12 00:39:04	@tomasino	yay!
2020-06-12 00:39:07	⚡	tomasino makes a sammich
2020-06-12 00:40:13	xq	enjoy!
2020-06-12 00:44:15	xq	tomasino: i see you were cowardly not clicking any of the links in the torture test :D
2020-06-12 00:46:57	styan	nvi(1) does not have a soft-wrap option, so "Don't manually break lines." would make it awful to write (for me).
2020-06-12 00:59:31	xq	btw, Kristall can *highlight* and _underline_ text, but that's an experimental feature
2020-06-12 01:01:32	xq	oh, tomasino: what font are you using to get emoji support? :D
2020-06-12 01:01:38	xq	mine doesn't render those *sad*
2020-06-12 01:02:11	@tomasino	Um, I'm not in front of my machine but I think it's in my theme file
2020-06-12 01:02:51	@tomasino	It's so pretty isn't it?
2020-06-12 01:03:00	xq	yees!
2020-06-12 01:03:23	xq	(also i just fixed that horrible wide text display when opening astrobotany)
2020-06-12 01:08:23	xq	I'm tempted to submit Kristall to HN
2020-06-12 01:08:36	xq	the post of Castor already spun up hype :D
2020-06-12 01:12:10	xq	wonderful video, it's a really good introduction on Gemini :)
2020-06-12 01:13:25	xq	also, i'm really proud right now seeing you using Kristall and it just looks like a modern, usable browser *blush*
2020-06-12 01:16:02	@tomasino	You've done a great job!
2020-06-12 01:19:07	xq	thanks
2020-06-12 01:19:14	xq	and still there is so much to do
2020-06-12 01:19:32	xq	for example: query the user if they want to keep their client certificate active when switching domains
2020-06-12 01:20:41	xq	which is kinda a safety/tracking concern
2020-06-12 01:23:31	xq	but this will all be included in the 0.3 public release :)
2020-06-12 01:23:36	xq	and now: bed. it's late already again
2020-06-12 02:50:21		pokes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-12 03:15:23		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-12 03:17:22	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 03:27:44	makeworld	xq: Yeah, submit it! Maybe make binaries first though? But overall go for it yeah
2020-06-12 05:19:30		lickthearch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-12 06:28:39	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 06:28:47		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-12 07:23:54		thombles has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 09:39:54	ℹ 	julienxx_ is now known as julienxx
2020-06-12 09:39:55	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-12 09:43:07	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 09:43:33	kensanata	🚀🚀‼
2020-06-12 09:43:47	kensanata	Checking in before going to buy ice cream!
2020-06-12 09:45:54	@julienxx	Got molly brown running on Plan 9 gemini://9til.de/ I'm so happy!
2020-06-12 09:46:03	xq	hey makeworld
2020-06-12 09:46:18	xq	julienxx: you what?! nice!
2020-06-12 09:46:48	kensanata	I really have to install Plan 9 one of these days.
2020-06-12 09:46:58	kensanata	Does Emacs work on Plan 9 is all I want to know!
2020-06-12 09:47:03	@julienxx	I'm trying to make a small Plan 9 pubnix
2020-06-12 09:47:12	@julienxx	no emacs on plan9
2020-06-12 09:47:15	kensanata	Noooooooo
2020-06-12 09:47:34	@julienxx	sam is like a better ed and there is acme which is kinda nice
2020-06-12 09:47:47	kensanata	I read about them in a book, on actual paper.
2020-06-12 09:47:52	kensanata	That's how long ago it was.
2020-06-12 09:47:58	@julienxx	plan 9 is very mouse oriented overall
2020-06-12 09:48:03	styan	You can check your email in acme, like emacs.
2020-06-12 09:48:22	@julienxx	you can do everything in acme basically
2020-06-12 09:49:04	xq	kensanata: you don't need EMACS on plan9
2020-06-12 09:49:11	xq	ACME is everything
2020-06-12 09:49:16	xq	it's … intruiging
2020-06-12 09:49:43	xq	i watched some tutorials and used it for a moment
2020-06-12 09:49:43	@julienxx	everything is a file and you open files in acme :)
2020-06-12 09:49:47	xq	yep
2020-06-12 09:49:58	xq	ftp server? use acme + ls
2020-06-12 09:50:06	xq	irc? use acme
2020-06-12 09:50:15	kensanata	I'll think about ACME as I go about buying ice-cream.
2020-06-12 09:50:27	kensanata	acme has irc? Cool.
2020-06-12 09:50:39		kensanata has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 09:51:18	styan	Acme is cool... if you have a good mouse for chording.
2020-06-12 09:51:59	xq	you mean for plumbing? :D
2020-06-12 09:52:33	styan	I thought that was just middle-click?
2020-06-12 09:53:09	xq	kinda
2020-06-12 09:53:12	styan	Or right-click.
2020-06-12 09:54:23	xq	not sure, the mouse stuff was really unusual
2020-06-12 09:59:46	styan	I love the idea of proportional fonts for programming, I just like my nvi keys too much.
2020-06-12 10:00:52	xq	i never got to like CLI editors
2020-06-12 10:01:00	xq	or better: TUI editors
2020-06-12 10:05:20	⚡	tomasino mutters, "vim is life" from the corner
2020-06-12 10:05:55	xq	yeah yeah :D
2020-06-12 10:06:04	xq	it's a matter of taste and what you're used to
2020-06-12 10:08:14	xq	i used windows for the first 10 years of my coding life
2020-06-12 10:10:20	styan	I would probably prefer herloom vi over vim, vim is big.
2020-06-12 10:11:38	@tomasino	I use neovim now mostly, but maintain my vimrc too
2020-06-12 10:12:12	styan	If I use vim for too long I mess up something by trying to redo a set of undos.
2020-06-12 10:12:17	@tomasino	I coded on windows for 6-7 years and it was tedious
2020-06-12 10:13:16	@tomasino	Branching history stuff is hard to grok but so powerful. I miss it when I'm not in vim
2020-06-12 10:13:25	styan	Redo 5 times on nvi: "u....", on vim that will erase the redo history.
2020-06-12 10:13:42	@tomasino	No, it won't
2020-06-12 10:13:47	@tomasino	It's in another branch
2020-06-12 10:14:20	styan	I have never heard of that.
2020-06-12 10:14:27	@tomasino	https://github.com/mbbill/undotree
2020-06-12 10:14:36	@tomasino	This makes it easier to visualize
2020-06-12 10:14:51	styan	Would it work in vi-compatible mode?
2020-06-12 10:15:10	@tomasino	If it's in actual vim, yes
2020-06-12 10:15:23	@tomasino	I dunno about nvi
2020-06-12 10:15:33	@tomasino	Or elvis
2020-06-12 10:15:38	@tomasino	Or any of those
2020-06-12 10:16:50	@tomasino	I think there's a vimcast on the undo tree
2020-06-12 10:17:15	@tomasino	http://vimcasts.org/episodes/undo-branching-and-gundo-vim/
2020-06-12 10:17:24	@tomasino	This explains it wonderfully
2020-06-12 10:18:46	styan	Ah, vi-compatible only hase one undo level like heirloom vi.
2020-06-12 10:19:26	styan	:earlier still works though?
2020-06-12 10:19:29	styan	Weird.
2020-06-12 10:19:50	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-12 10:20:19	@tomasino	It's powerful stuff once you start actually using it
2020-06-12 10:20:39	@tomasino	I keep a massive history depth on my projects
2020-06-12 10:20:42	styan	That is something good to know the next time I am editing something in some Linux VM.
2020-06-12 10:22:34	@tomasino	:earlier 5m
2020-06-12 10:22:41	@tomasino	Life saver
2020-06-12 10:22:44	@tomasino	;)
2020-06-12 10:22:52	styan	I still think that vim is way too big though :-)
2020-06-12 10:23:00	styan	)I also think that nvi is too big too)
2020-06-12 10:23:43	@tomasino	ed!
2020-06-12 10:23:55	jan	or emacs in evil-mode
2020-06-12 10:23:57	styan	I should learn sam
2020-06-12 10:24:24	@tomasino	Everyone is plan9ing these days
2020-06-12 10:25:18	@tomasino	I have jed as the default editor on cosmic for new users
2020-06-12 10:25:28	@tomasino	Reminds me of oooooold word perfect
2020-06-12 10:25:44	@tomasino	F-key menu, easy editing
2020-06-12 10:28:51	styan	Like ee(1)!  <- pun
2020-06-12 10:39:18	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 10:43:40	@julienxx	kensanata: are you happy with Radicale?
2020-06-12 10:44:25	kensanata	julienxx: Well, setup is complete. I don't think I've added a single calendar item or contact, yet.
2020-06-12 10:44:38	kensanata	So, as happy as is reasonable for zero data, haha.
2020-06-12 10:45:17	@julienxx	haha cool
2020-06-12 10:47:38	kensanata	ASCII diagrams, Unicode diagrams, or Mermaid? https://mermaid-js.github.io/mermaid/#/sequenceDiagram?id=syntax
2020-06-12 10:48:11	kensanata	Or ASCIIflow??
2020-06-12 10:48:48	@julienxx	I use plantUML at work, it's a nice tool
2020-06-12 10:49:42	kensanata	I like the word "plant"
2020-06-12 10:50:47	kensanata	The yellow boxes make me think of Rational Rose.
2020-06-12 10:51:28	@julienxx	being able to make commits and pull requests on diagrams is really practical
2020-06-12 10:54:59	kensanata	True!
2020-06-12 11:03:39	@tomasino	i am here! (like, on the computer now)
2020-06-12 11:09:01		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-12 11:22:31	@tomasino	xq: https://ttm.sh/QBj.png - note the document outline
2020-06-12 11:22:42	@tomasino	looks like the 3rd level item isn't parsing properly
2020-06-12 11:23:50	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 11:24:12	styan	Hmm, Gemini application idea: Public calender using client certificates to controll read/write/invite permissions.
2020-06-12 11:24:21	styan	s/controll/control/
2020-06-12 11:27:24	@tomasino	fancy!
2020-06-12 11:27:34	@tomasino	i'm inviting you all to the party in my pants
2020-06-12 11:27:43	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-12 11:43:43	@tomasino	xq: https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/pull/8
2020-06-12 11:48:51	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 11:52:04	kensanata	OK, mermaid annoyed me enough that I've decided to give text a try.
2020-06-12 11:52:35	@tomasino	asciifloooooow
2020-06-12 11:52:36	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-12 11:53:10	kensanata	I actually tried to use Artist Mode in Emacs, which is somewhat similar, and it annoyed me, too.
2020-06-12 11:59:28	styan	tomasino xq: You could do something like this and let the qmake generated Makefile deal with dependencies: https://ttm.sh/QBZ.mk
2020-06-12 12:34:19	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: I use radicale for contact syncing storage
2020-06-12 12:34:59	@julienxx	works well with phones?
2020-06-12 12:35:02	~tiwesdaeg	it replaced an instance of nextcloud that I had, which I never used much except for the dav stuff
2020-06-12 12:35:25	~tiwesdaeg	works great with davx5
2020-06-12 12:35:32	~tiwesdaeg	I honestly forget it exists sometimes
2020-06-12 12:35:48	~tiwesdaeg	just chugs along on one of my vps's
2020-06-12 12:36:33	@julienxx	neat!
2020-06-12 12:38:52	~tiwesdaeg	looks like it even comes with a systemd service
2020-06-12 12:38:59	~tiwesdaeg	I figured I'd check in on it
2020-06-12 12:42:34	~tiwesdaeg	also, on the text editor topic, has anyone tried micro?
2020-06-12 12:43:00	~tiwesdaeg	it's sort of like nano, but with normal shortcuts
2020-06-12 12:44:12	@tomasino	no! i was unaware of it
2020-06-12 12:44:24	@tomasino	i've been trying to install every terminal editor i can find on cosmic
2020-06-12 12:44:39	~tiwesdaeg	it's actually really nice
2020-06-12 12:45:19	~tiwesdaeg	should be even easier than jed
2020-06-12 12:45:29	~tiwesdaeg	you want to save? ctrl-s
2020-06-12 12:45:29	@tomasino	oh, hah, nevermind
2020-06-12 12:45:33	~tiwesdaeg	you want to quit?
2020-06-12 12:45:33	@tomasino	i already did install that one
2020-06-12 12:45:35	~tiwesdaeg	ctrl-q
2020-06-12 12:45:41	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-06-12 12:46:02	~tiwesdaeg	the author is really big on distributing binaries for every platform
2020-06-12 12:46:19	@tomasino	it's cool
2020-06-12 12:46:35	~tiwesdaeg	I flip flop between it and vim
2020-06-12 12:47:07	~tiwesdaeg	it seems to be a bit more mouse friendly
2020-06-12 12:47:51	~tiwesdaeg	nano/pico have crazy shortcuts since they are based on the old pine email client
2020-06-12 12:49:43	@tomasino	jeds info page is great
2020-06-12 12:50:19	@tomasino	i should learn how to make these info docs
2020-06-12 12:50:43	@tomasino	the infodoc for recutils is also stellar
2020-06-12 12:51:08	~tiwesdaeg	when did xq add the Makefile?
2020-06-12 12:51:50	@tomasino	i pr'd it in yesterday
2020-06-12 12:52:09	@tomasino	there was a simpler one before that
2020-06-12 12:53:49	~tiwesdaeg	I've been doing it the old manual way
2020-06-12 12:55:05	~tiwesdaeg	no issues on manjaro
2020-06-12 12:55:16	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-12 12:55:34	~tiwesdaeg	I was fiddling with hard drives in this desktop, trying to install Haiku
2020-06-12 12:55:41	~tiwesdaeg	now I can't boot the netbsd drive
2020-06-12 12:55:45	@tomasino	oh no
2020-06-12 12:55:52	@tomasino	boot loader issues?
2020-06-12 12:55:53	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure if I over fiddled with a cable or something
2020-06-12 12:55:57	@tomasino	oh, hardware
2020-06-12 12:56:09	~tiwesdaeg	I unplugged that drive to put in another
2020-06-12 12:56:27	~tiwesdaeg	put everything back, but it won't boot from the uefi boot menu
2020-06-12 12:56:40	~tiwesdaeg	who uses grub for multiboot anymore?
2020-06-12 12:57:05	~tiwesdaeg	especially when I'm always moving things around and installing different operating systems
2020-06-12 12:57:35	~tiwesdaeg	I'll pop open the case later and try again
2020-06-12 13:00:55	~tiwesdaeg	are we using capsule is the same way as gopherhole?
2020-06-12 13:01:17	~tiwesdaeg	and not just another way to say gemlog/glog/phlog/blog
2020-06-12 13:12:37	xq	tiwesdaeg, tomasino: do you know tilde?
2020-06-12 13:12:39	xq	the editor?
2020-06-12 13:12:48	xq	https://os.ghalkes.nl/tilde/
2020-06-12 13:13:35	~tiwesdaeg	the blue, it hurts my eyes!
2020-06-12 13:14:01	xq	it has color schemes
2020-06-12 13:14:37	xq	funny thing: it's mouse-usable :D
2020-06-12 13:14:49	@tomasino	oh yes, i do
2020-06-12 13:14:59	@tomasino	it's installed on cosmic! :D
2020-06-12 13:15:06	xq	neat
2020-06-12 13:15:44	~tiwesdaeg	it's in the aur
2020-06-12 13:16:19		pokes has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 13:16:54	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I really like the info text at the bottom right of the kristall window
2020-06-12 13:17:02	xq	thanks! :)
2020-06-12 13:17:15	xq	i improved it earlier a tad, but it has some bugs stilla
2020-06-12 13:18:15	xq	i need to add a timer to refresh the numbers even when nothhing is transferred
2020-06-12 13:18:24	xq	so you can see that thhe loading is still in progress
2020-06-12 13:18:30	~tiwesdaeg	I also found a radon image in the wild and was surprised at the in browser display
2020-06-12 13:18:38	@tomasino	xq, that 3rd level thingy i screenshotted only happens on that page. maybe the parens in the line?
2020-06-12 13:19:29	xq	huh, what do you mean?
2020-06-12 13:19:33	⚡	xq is missing some context
2020-06-12 13:19:39	~tiwesdaeg	though, they do maximize to window size instead of displaying at regular size
2020-06-12 13:26:25	kensanata	gemini://alexschroeder.ch/2020-06-12_Leaving_comments_on_a_Gemini_site
2020-06-12 13:30:25		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-12 13:34:17	xq	tomasino: can you tell me what you mean by "3rd level thingy"?
2020-06-12 13:35:14	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 13:36:23	@tomasino	###
2020-06-12 13:36:30	@tomasino	heading level 3 on the fox index page
2020-06-12 13:36:50	@tomasino	in the outline view the text isn't matching what is on the page. it's just showing the top level one again
2020-06-12 13:37:20	xq	oh thanks!
2020-06-12 13:37:41	@tomasino	really digging deep for bug reports now. ;)
2020-06-12 13:38:36	xq	heh
2020-06-12 13:42:22	xq	> Your plant was recently watered by tomasino.
2020-06-12 13:42:23	xq	thanks!
2020-06-12 13:45:30	mhj	Morning geminoes
2020-06-12 13:45:44	xq	hey mhj
2020-06-12 13:46:12	mhj	yo xq, how're ya
2020-06-12 13:46:27	xq	really awesome!
2020-06-12 13:46:47	xq	weather is so great, was meeting some friends and we had a fine cup of ice with 27°C
2020-06-12 13:46:54	xq	and the most shiny sun
2020-06-12 13:50:49		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-12 13:50:58	mhj	Nice, sounds good :D
2020-06-12 13:51:45	xq	yeah
2020-06-12 13:51:50	xq	and now back to coding Kristall
2020-06-12 13:53:08	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-12 13:53:33	xq	but! I have to spend some time on writing some actual content for my blog as well
2020-06-12 13:53:40	@tomasino	content is king
2020-06-12 13:53:45	xq	have a half-finished blog entry about resource management in games :D
2020-06-12 13:53:53	@tomasino	oooh, games
2020-06-12 13:53:58	@tomasino	i need to play something
2020-06-12 13:54:01	@tomasino	but i have SO MUCH WORK
2020-06-12 13:54:01	@tomasino	ugh
2020-06-12 13:54:22	xq	hehe
2020-06-12 13:54:28	xq	it's more about writing games, but yeah :D
2020-06-12 13:56:14	@tomasino	those are good too
2020-06-12 13:57:37	xq	i'm still tempted to create some competition to Astrobotany
2020-06-12 14:00:13	▬▬▶	lickthearch has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 14:00:16	~tiwesdaeg	competition is great
2020-06-12 14:00:27	xq	need to write a gemini server though :D
2020-06-12 14:00:32	xq	can't do that stuff with CGI
2020-06-12 14:00:42	~tiwesdaeg	more tomagotchi like games?
2020-06-12 14:00:48	xq	heh
2020-06-12 14:01:01	xq	my idea was something like a small strategy builder game
2020-06-12 14:01:13	xq	where you have to build a small space colony or fund a rocket or something :D
2020-06-12 14:01:23	~tiwesdaeg	lemonade stand
2020-06-12 14:02:01	~tiwesdaeg	I played that on some old tandy something or other as a kid in school
2020-06-12 14:03:38	@tomasino	recreate tradewars
2020-06-12 14:04:01	@tomasino	oooh, or Legend of the Red Dragon
2020-06-12 14:04:41	dkibi	xq: I was thinking about doing an ogame-like throwback
2020-06-12 14:04:49	xq	yeah, something like that :D
2020-06-12 14:05:05	xq	builing mines, spaceships and conquer the world
2020-06-12 14:05:54	@tomasino	brilliant
2020-06-12 14:06:07	@tomasino	did door games have a common api?
2020-06-12 14:06:18	@tomasino	i wonder if you could just build a bbs door game interface
2020-06-12 14:06:30	@tomasino	"you" being anyone
2020-06-12 14:06:55	mhj	I heard BBS
2020-06-12 14:06:58	xq	hmm *thinking*
2020-06-12 14:07:17	mhj	That would be cool tho
2020-06-12 14:07:49	@tomasino	i would waste SO MUCH TIME on gemini
2020-06-12 14:07:52	@tomasino	holy moly
2020-06-12 14:08:30	mhj	As far as Door games having a common API, I don't really know. I just know that they ran on DOS and used a similar graphical style
2020-06-12 14:08:49	xq	friend of mine tried to build an emulator kind of thingy for door games
2020-06-12 14:09:09	dkibi	some mud like could also work?
2020-06-12 14:09:15	xq	hmm
2020-06-12 14:10:08	@tomasino	a mud might be more annoying since you have to type input so much
2020-06-12 14:10:24	@tomasino	door games mostly had menu-driven interactions which could be parsed to clickable links
2020-06-12 14:10:42	mhj	Yeah, I think that makes sense for something like Gemini
2020-06-12 14:11:09	mhj	Something like LORD, which I feel is a great game
2020-06-12 14:11:11	@tomasino	i know that door games are still running on some modern bbs's like synchronet and mysticbbs
2020-06-12 14:11:55	@tomasino	if it wasn't "all" door games and someone just ripped through LORD for its logic and slapped a UTF-8 output thingy on there and client certificate handling, that person would earn $10 from me as a donation
2020-06-12 14:12:00	@tomasino	(so not worth the effort)
2020-06-12 14:12:02	dkibi	I must admit that I'm not familiar with the concept
2020-06-12 14:12:03	@tomasino	but i'd be so happy
2020-06-12 14:12:14	@tomasino	let me see if i can find a video or something
2020-06-12 14:12:32	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOBm_JSAKmU
2020-06-12 14:13:07	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 14:14:19	dkibi	I will watch it! (currently waiting for a meeting to start)
2020-06-12 14:14:42	dkibi	the other day I searched the webs for cc licenced cyoa games, but I didn't imediately find some. does anyone know a source?
2020-06-12 14:14:50	dkibi	iirc julienxx had some on their capsüle
2020-06-12 14:17:01	mhj	A lot of the door games are propeitary licensed IIRC and closed source, which is very unfortunate. Same with the BBSes.
2020-06-12 14:17:14	@tomasino	yeah
2020-06-12 14:17:51	@tomasino	damn, now i'm thinking we missed an opportunity for ANSi graphics in gemini
2020-06-12 14:17:53	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-12 14:18:00	xq	you mean colored grraphics?
2020-06-12 14:18:02	@tomasino	i'm gonna taunt solderpunk with that in fedi
2020-06-12 14:18:08	@tomasino	no, the actual ANSi graphics format
2020-06-12 14:18:11	@tomasino	it's different
2020-06-12 14:18:22	@tomasino	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_art
2020-06-12 14:18:42	@tomasino	extended character set
2020-06-12 14:19:00	xq	where's the problem? that's jus a text file ;)
2020-06-12 14:19:05	xq	you have all those chars in utf-8 as well
2020-06-12 14:19:08	xq	only no color codes
2020-06-12 14:19:37	@julienxx	dkibi: I know it took me time to find the games and I don't remember where I found those
2020-06-12 14:23:54	xq	tomasino: you know this page? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_Elements
2020-06-12 14:24:47	@tomasino	i do, i'm honestly not sure what the functional differences are now that we're talking about it
2020-06-12 14:25:13	@tomasino	there was some encoding shenanigans back in the day, but if we're not trying to render actual ANSI art, but create something similar out of UTF-8, i guess that's doable
2020-06-12 14:25:25	xq	"ANSI" art is pretty much "use an ansi code page + ansi escape sequences" instead of plain text
2020-06-12 14:25:40	xq	you can even iconv these files :)
2020-06-12 14:26:14	xq	problem are the escape sequences that change colo
2020-06-12 14:26:27	@tomasino	well, i would welcome "ansi" art then
2020-06-12 14:26:36	@tomasino	even in B&W
2020-06-12 14:26:48	xq	heh
2020-06-12 14:26:54	xq	people make awesome ansi art
2020-06-12 14:26:55	xq	https://demozoo.org/graphics/268046/
2020-06-12 14:27:16	@tomasino	they do indeed
2020-06-12 14:27:20	@tomasino	ACiD was amazing
2020-06-12 14:27:35	@tomasino	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACiD_Productions
2020-06-12 14:28:15	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbgD14LH0Ck
2020-06-12 14:28:55	xq	pablo draw is still a thing btw
2020-06-12 14:29:31	⚡	tomasino dances
2020-06-12 14:30:15	rak	Hah, I've been reading the Boston Diaries on gopher for close to a year now, but only just put together that Sean Conner on the gemini list is Sean Conner of Boston Diaries.
2020-06-12 14:30:19	xq	"that's the song of my people"
2020-06-12 14:30:30	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-12 14:31:11	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 14:46:08		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 14:48:01	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 14:54:17		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 14:55:11	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 15:23:25	~tiwesdaeg	maybe they licked too many cats?
2020-06-12 15:23:37	xq	i wouldn't lick a cat
2020-06-12 15:24:47	companion_cube	in soviet russia, cats lick you
2020-06-12 15:24:57	lickthecat	lol
2020-06-12 15:25:04	xq	:O
2020-06-12 15:25:14	xq	working on a new feature for Kristall: https://mq32.de/public/8ecb49d08a3f9f77ca9c1267ae5f4c1086a5a027.png
2020-06-12 15:25:24	lickthecat	tiwesdaeg: its because im using an irc client called catgirl lol
2020-06-12 15:25:27	xq	Certficiate Manager for importing/exporting certificates as well as writing your own notes
2020-06-12 15:25:37	xq	lick the cat girl
2020-06-12 15:28:51	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-06-12 15:29:24	~tiwesdaeg	is there a way to pull up the cert dialog then without clicking on a link that requires one?
2020-06-12 15:31:35	xq	sure
2020-06-12 15:31:39	~tiwesdaeg	#3 search item for "catgirl irc client" on google is Anthrochat, an irc network for furries
2020-06-12 15:31:54	xq	just hit the certificate button right of the URL bar!
2020-06-12 15:31:56	~tiwesdaeg	#5 is FurNEt
2020-06-12 15:31:59	~tiwesdaeg	ahh
2020-06-12 15:32:08	~tiwesdaeg	I just thought that disabled the cert
2020-06-12 15:32:18	xq	that's one function :D
2020-06-12 15:32:22	xq	but it also enables the certificate :)
2020-06-12 15:32:40	⚡	tiwesdaeg just came back from the garden
2020-06-12 15:32:44	~tiwesdaeg	so many weeds
2020-06-12 15:32:48	~tiwesdaeg	the grass is taking over
2020-06-12 15:39:23		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-12 15:39:25	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 15:39:29	lickthecat	tiwesdaeg: lol https://git.causal.agency/catgirl/about/
2020-06-12 15:44:25	~tiwesdaeg	ooo, I forgot about pounce
2020-06-12 15:45:08	⚡	lickthecat pounces in tiwesdaeg
2020-06-12 15:45:52	companion_cube	apparently there's catnip in your garden tiwesdaeg
2020-06-12 15:46:21	~tiwesdaeg	nice, pounce handles history correctly
2020-06-12 15:46:57	wgreenhouse	why do I keep typoing j​une's site as casual.agency and not causal.agency
2020-06-12 15:47:00	~tiwesdaeg	I wonder if it will build on netbsd or debian
2020-06-12 15:47:06	lickthecat	wgreenhouse: omg me too
2020-06-12 15:47:31	~tiwesdaeg	the cat's not allowed outside
2020-06-12 15:47:38	~tiwesdaeg	we haven't gotten her fixed yet
2020-06-12 15:50:00	companion_cube	ours stay inside anyway
2020-06-12 15:52:20	~tiwesdaeg	mine got locked in the laundry at night and tore a hole in the screen of the open window
2020-06-12 15:55:25	lickthecat	lol wut is your cat wet?
2020-06-12 15:57:08	~tiwesdaeg	was in heat ;P
2020-06-12 15:57:15	~tiwesdaeg	she had some needs
2020-06-12 16:04:10		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 16:07:43	wgreenhouse	pon farr
2020-06-12 16:41:07	companion_cube	the overhead of TLS… can't one just use persistent connections anyway?
2020-06-12 16:41:16	companion_cube	(with proper framing ofc)
2020-06-12 16:42:07	xq	no, that's not possible in gemini
2020-06-12 16:42:10	xq	you have no size header
2020-06-12 16:42:19	xq	file size is determined by closing the (TLS) connection
2020-06-12 16:45:25	companion_cube	yes but that makes the overhead hard to avoid :p
2020-06-12 16:48:26	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 16:50:23	~tiwesdaeg	lickthecat: are you using catgirl on freebsd?
2020-06-12 17:05:31		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 17:06:24	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 17:08:49	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 17:09:12		lickthecat has quit (Changing host)
2020-06-12 17:09:12	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 17:23:48		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 17:25:33	xq	hmm 🤔
2020-06-12 17:25:48	xq	for import/export of certificates, i always need to use certificate-key-pairs
2020-06-12 17:26:12		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 17:26:35	xq	any ideas how to make that user friendly?
2020-06-12 17:27:11	xq	one option would be to let the user select the base file name (name.pem or name.der) and Kristall then exports to name.pem and name.key
2020-06-12 17:27:23	@tomasino	that would be cool
2020-06-12 17:27:25	xq	or i make an in-between dialog where you can select both files before the transaction
2020-06-12 17:27:26	@tomasino	or you could use the CN
2020-06-12 17:28:06	xq	it's not really about the file name :D
2020-06-12 17:28:10	xq	high level usability features
2020-06-12 17:28:10	xq	:D
2020-06-12 17:29:15	mhj	I am using this weird and wacky server called Molly Brown on FreeBSD. Who names their servers after names? SO WEIRD.
2020-06-12 17:29:35	mhj	JK, I love the server.
2020-06-12 17:29:57	xq	heh
2020-06-12 17:30:04	xq	i'm using gemserv, it's quite nice
2020-06-12 17:32:05	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 17:45:15	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-12 17:48:05	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 17:49:15	xq	hmm, i'm off playing shantae
2020-06-12 17:49:51	xq	and thinking about new ways of doing the client cert stuff
2020-06-12 17:51:36	@julienxx	Shantae <3
2020-06-12 17:52:54	xq	new game is out since 4.6.
2020-06-12 18:12:51		mozz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 18:27:43		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-12 18:31:17	~tiwesdaeg	schweaty bicycle time is at an end
2020-06-12 18:31:20	~tiwesdaeg	I'm sort of back
2020-06-12 18:45:36	@tomasino	yay
2020-06-12 19:20:50		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-12 19:21:05	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 20:00:03	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 20:28:27	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 20:47:05	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 20:49:35		pekka20 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 20:50:28	lukee	hi everyone - whats up?
2020-06-12 20:51:46	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 20:51:52	acdw	hey hey lukee!
2020-06-12 20:51:59	lukee	hi there
2020-06-12 20:52:01	acdw	just writing and talking on the phone to library patrons
2020-06-12 20:52:02	acdw	how are you?
2020-06-12 20:52:30	lukee	not bad - I tried to have a day away from the computer today. Not entirely successful
2020-06-12 20:52:51	acdw	you *are* here, lol
2020-06-12 20:52:56	lukee	exactly
2020-06-12 20:53:07	lukee	I tried your bollux client by the way - nice
2020-06-12 20:53:31	lukee	for when I am stuck on a terminal
2020-06-12 20:53:55	lukee	bombadillo makes no sense to me as I dont use vi and the emacs one, well needs emacs
2020-06-12 20:54:20	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 20:54:43	acdw	I know :D
2020-06-12 20:55:01	acdw	oh shooot I meant to say "I know .." something and then :D in a separate message
2020-06-12 20:55:08	lukee	its amazing what you can do with a shell script
2020-06-12 20:55:13	acdw	I was going to say "I know how it feels to try and be off the computer"
2020-06-12 20:55:16	acdw	and then ":D"
2020-06-12 20:55:29	acdw	thanks !
2020-06-12 20:55:42	lukee	you work in a library?
2020-06-12 20:55:45	acdw	I like shell because it lets you leverage existing technologies and glue them together
2020-06-12 20:55:47	acdw	yep!
2020-06-12 20:56:15	lukee	for academics or the public
2020-06-12 20:57:01	acdw	the public. I just looked up a bible verse for a caller
2020-06-12 20:57:18	acdw	which I guess *could* be academic. but also people call to ask for phone numbers all the time
2020-06-12 20:57:49	lukee	you could have send a gemini link to him/her - I saw there was a full text of the King James bible in Gemini somewhere
2020-06-12 20:57:59		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 20:58:09	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 20:58:26	acdw	haha I'm sure they would've known what to do with that
2020-06-12 20:58:56	lukee	one niche interest meets another
2020-06-12 21:00:09	acdw	haha
2020-06-12 21:00:43	acdw	It is pretty cool they have the bible up on geminispace though! I saw the library of Eris up too
2020-06-12 21:00:56	acdw	It'd be cool to get as many public domain books as available and put them up
2020-06-12 21:01:07	acdw	gemini://sci-hub.gem
2020-06-12 21:01:14	lukee	I clicked on a few links into that library of Eris - its pretty weird stuff - what is it?
2020-06-12 21:01:42	acdw	"Discordianism"
2020-06-12 21:01:51	lukee	which is...
2020-06-12 21:01:54	acdw	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism
2020-06-12 21:02:02	acdw	It's like a parody religion?
2020-06-12 21:02:04	acdw	 I think?
2020-06-12 21:02:12	lukee	like pastafarianism?
2020-06-12 21:02:20	acdw	Yeah I think so
2020-06-12 21:03:14	lukee	I'll have to read that later - looks interesting. No less strange than the established ones probably
2020-06-12 21:03:47	@tomasino	yes, but older
2020-06-12 21:03:56	@tomasino	and wonderfully silly
2020-06-12 21:04:03	lukee	the sci-hub.gem URL doesnt work for me
2020-06-12 21:04:28	lukee	hi tomasino
2020-06-12 21:04:38	lukee	Enjoyed your video :-)
2020-06-12 21:06:05	kensanata	tomasino hosts the bible, I think?
2020-06-12 21:06:32	@tomasino	i do
2020-06-12 21:06:37	@tomasino	english standard version
2020-06-12 21:06:48	@tomasino	with permission! had to do paperwork and everything
2020-06-12 21:06:52	kensanata	Wow
2020-06-12 21:06:54	@tomasino	it was fun explaining gopher to them
2020-06-12 21:07:00	kensanata	Haha
2020-06-12 21:07:10	companion_cube	whose copyright is it?!
2020-06-12 21:08:12	lukee	The Good Lord's I think
2020-06-12 21:08:42	lukee	that's probably not strictly true...
2020-06-12 21:09:36	kensanata	You can get older bibles that are out of copyright. But newer translations have new copyrights.
2020-06-12 21:09:51	kensanata	You can get plenty old versions on Gutenberg, I'm sure.
2020-06-12 21:10:11	kensanata	I wonder if anybody would look at photo albums via Gemini.
2020-06-12 21:10:43	lukee	its hard to visually browse them without thumbnails
2020-06-12 21:10:52	@tomasino	Crossway
2020-06-12 21:11:18	@tomasino	if you crawl them wiht an ai to label your links it could be fun
2020-06-12 21:11:39	lukee	The AI would find all the cats, anyway
2020-06-12 21:11:56	lukee	That seems to be the first application of image recognition technologies
2020-06-12 21:12:10	acdw	lukee: I was joking about sci-hub.gem, lol
2020-06-12 21:12:26	lukee	haha - you never know
2020-06-12 21:12:37	kensanata	The images in my albums nearly all have some description...
2020-06-12 21:13:08	lukee	why not put a few albums up and experiment to see what the best UI looks like
2020-06-12 21:14:27	@tomasino	what's that game ... think of anything and the machine will guess it in 20 questions
2020-06-12 21:14:34	@tomasino	that would be fun to make on gemini
2020-06-12 21:14:42	lukee	its called "20 questions"
2020-06-12 21:15:24	lukee	or maybe thats the human version
2020-06-12 21:17:18	bard	tomasino: akinator
2020-06-12 21:18:33	lukee	Akinator.com works mainly through advertising. If you enjoy our content, please deactivate your adblocker on Akinator.com.
2020-06-12 21:18:40	lukee	lol
2020-06-12 21:19:13	@tomasino	Hehe
2020-06-12 21:19:34	bard	oh my god, I loaded up the site and my mouse started lagging, it was cranking my cpu or something
2020-06-12 21:20:01	bard	maybe mining crypto because I didn't load their ads...
2020-06-12 21:21:07	lukee	ok folks nice to catch up, got to go now
2020-06-12 21:21:17		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 21:22:45	@tomasino	ciao!
2020-06-12 21:29:52	acdw	tomasino 20 questions would be an awesome game to do thru gemini, you could even do it with just links
2020-06-12 21:30:04	acdw	b/c it's "Animal, Vegetable, Mineral," followed by yes/no
2020-06-12 21:32:26	acdw	kensanata: I think it'd be really cool to dither images with like, braille characters and serve those up over Gemini
2020-06-12 21:32:34	kensanata	haha
2020-06-12 21:40:30	acdw	I don't even know how to begin with that, but it'd be a really neat project
2020-06-12 21:40:31	acdw	if huge
2020-06-12 21:40:36	acdw	the images I mean, they'd be huge
2020-06-12 21:54:16	xq	looks like i really should get that certificate fingerprinting TOFU stuff running
2020-06-12 21:54:18		lickthearch has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 21:54:34	acdw	oh yes xq me as well
2020-06-12 21:54:39	acdw	i've been putting it off
2020-06-12 21:54:45	xq	hehe
2020-06-12 21:54:52	acdw	but I don't think it'll be hard to *do*
2020-06-12 21:54:55	acdw	I just haven't done it yet
2020-06-12 21:55:05	xq	0.3 will be the "Certificate RElease Cycle" for Kristall
2020-06-12 21:55:15	xq	i'm just finishing the client certificate stuff
2020-06-12 21:55:28	xq	and this means i now know how the certs work
2020-06-12 21:55:47	acdw	nice!
2020-06-12 21:56:35	acdw	I'm trying to decide how I want to do mine, since right now the page is just coming down the pipe and I'm displaying it
2020-06-12 21:56:52	acdw	but to get the certs thing working I think I need to download the pages or something like it
2020-06-12 21:57:14	acdw	and I kind of want to, for like, caching purposes. But then that opens up a can of worms like, how long should the cache stay?
2020-06-12 21:57:24	acdw	I guess that could be *configurable*
2020-06-12 21:57:50	acdw	but it opens up a can of worms I guess
2020-06-12 21:58:00	acdw	anyway sorry to rant a little. I have to go back downstairs.
2020-06-12 21:58:03		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 22:05:04	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 22:06:01	acdw	aand i'm back!
2020-06-12 22:06:13	acdw	i need to make some gemini bookmarks so i don't have to keep searching all over the place
2020-06-12 22:06:39	acdw	xq: was it too hard to implement client stuff in Krystall?
2020-06-12 22:06:48	xq	nah
2020-06-12 22:06:50	xq	not really
2020-06-12 22:07:09	xq	i had to include openssl though for cert generation
2020-06-12 22:07:34	acdw	oh okay cool-- I already have openssl to get the page
2020-06-12 22:07:38	acdw	so that's good
2020-06-12 22:07:38	xq	neat
2020-06-12 22:08:45	xq	i just wonder
2020-06-12 22:09:07	xq	should i store the public key or the certificate fingerprint
2020-06-12 22:09:25	acdw	I've been wondering the same! I was thinking about ... both?
2020-06-12 22:09:47	xq	i think we actually should store the pubkey
2020-06-12 22:09:52	xq	instead of certificate info
2020-06-12 22:09:53	acdw	Like here's what I was thinking, with the caching and all: I'd download the whole response, `openssl s_client` the whole thing
2020-06-12 22:09:57	xq	because then we can also renew certificates
2020-06-12 22:10:01	acdw	hmm yes
2020-06-12 22:10:23	xq	would also solve the thing with the client certificates
2020-06-12 22:10:24	acdw	I like also how portal.mozz.us allows users to view the certificate of the page
2020-06-12 22:10:41	acdw	what's that thing?
2020-06-12 22:10:50	acdw	that it'd solve?
2020-06-12 22:10:50	acdw	Sorry I don't quite follow
2020-06-12 22:10:50	xq	can you link me that page?
2020-06-12 22:10:59	xq	ah
2020-06-12 22:11:01	acdw	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/?crt=1
2020-06-12 22:11:08	xq	"that thing" is the point that client certificates expire
2020-06-12 22:11:16	acdw	I think just `?crt=1` after the URL
2020-06-12 22:11:20	acdw	oh yes that's right!
2020-06-12 22:11:20	acdw	!
2020-06-12 22:11:56	acdw	so if you saved the pubkey of the page, you could see if it expired?
2020-06-12 22:12:04	xq	i think we actually should store the pubke
2020-06-12 22:12:07	xq	SSH does so as well
2020-06-12 22:12:13	xq	(looking at "known hosts")
2020-06-12 22:12:34	xq	nah, i can see expiry even when i'm not using the pubkey
2020-06-12 22:12:35	acdw	that would guarantee no collisions
2020-06-12 22:12:43	xq	but i can re-recognize a new certificate by the same private key
2020-06-12 22:12:56	acdw	oh okay. Oh okay! I think I get it
2020-06-12 22:13:19	acdw	Did you read anything besides manuals on SSL to write the client cert stuff for Krystall?
2020-06-12 22:13:57	xq	nope
2020-06-12 22:14:02	xq	Qt has that all built-in
2020-06-12 22:14:26	acdw	niiiccceee
2020-06-12 22:14:38	acdw	that's probably the thing that's biting me the most re: shell.
2020-06-12 22:14:46	acdw	I have to do a lot of stuff from scratch.
2020-06-12 22:15:19	makeworld	acdw: I can explain how the cache in my client works if that helps
2020-06-12 22:15:34	makeworld	It seems to work well
2020-06-12 22:15:45	xq	makeworld: do you have TOFU implemented yet?
2020-06-12 22:15:46	acdw	yes please makeworld!
2020-06-12 22:15:52	acdw	I'd love to learn as much as possible.
2020-06-12 22:16:04	makeworld	xq: Yep! Seems to work
2020-06-12 22:16:09		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-12 22:16:10	makeworld	acdw: Sounds good :)
2020-06-12 22:16:13	xq	okay, what do you store?
2020-06-12 22:16:17	xq	pubkey or certificate?
2020-06-12 22:16:29	makeworld	Hash of raw cert and expiry date
2020-06-12 22:16:33	makeworld	afaik that's all you need
2020-06-12 22:16:33	xq	hm
2020-06-12 22:16:43	xq	ssh saves pubkeys
2020-06-12 22:16:57	xq	because you couldn't visit my site then after a week
2020-06-12 22:17:01	xq	(at least my https site)
2020-06-12 22:17:02	makeworld	Yeah but that means an attacker could use an old cert with the same key
2020-06-12 22:17:07	xq	i refresh the certificate every other day
2020-06-12 22:17:18	xq	but they need the private key
2020-06-12 22:17:25	xq	and if they have the private key, everytihng is lost anyways
2020-06-12 22:17:25	makeworld	Hmm yeah I guess
2020-06-12 22:17:31	xq	because certs don't contain that ,)
2020-06-12 22:17:42	xq	if i have the private key, i can create new certs for that identity
2020-06-12 22:18:02	makeworld	I don't know enough to say, but I just know they're a precedent for storing it like that thanks to Bombadillo. Idk, maybe public key is better?
2020-06-12 22:18:22	xq	i think so
2020-06-12 22:18:48	acdw	Afaict the main difference would be space, at least for most use-cases. Pubkey is *public*, so there's no expectation of privacy there
2020-06-12 22:19:24	xq	yes, but the pubkey allow us to recognize a privkey aain
2020-06-12 22:19:26	xq	*again
2020-06-12 22:19:42	acdw	oh yes okay. which is different from a cert as well.
2020-06-12 22:19:46	xq	the cert is pretty much just an expiry date signed with the privkey
2020-06-12 22:19:46	acdw	this is where I get confused.
2020-06-12 22:19:50	acdw	OH
2020-06-12 22:19:59	xq	(at least to my understanding)
2020-06-12 22:20:14	xq	it's like "i'm guaranteeing you for 3 months that i am in control of this server"
2020-06-12 22:20:17	acdw	hey it's more than mine lol
2020-06-12 22:20:19	makeworld	As long as you're storing the expiry date I don't think it matters to much
2020-06-12 22:20:22	makeworld	*too
2020-06-12 22:20:25	xq	i have to refresh the certificate to continue trust
2020-06-12 22:20:28	xq	in that time
2020-06-12 22:20:50	makeworld	You should still store expiry in case the cert is lost, or the protocol changes, etc
2020-06-12 22:21:13	acdw	yes that makes sense
2020-06-12 22:21:41	makeworld	But yeah maybe pubkey is better than fingerprint
2020-06-12 22:21:44	makeworld	Idk
2020-06-12 22:21:46	xq	i think privkey + fingerprint (as in sha256 hash of the cert in DER format) should be enough
2020-06-12 22:21:59	makeworld	What's the point of storing both?
2020-06-12 22:22:06	xq	fingerprint allows you to recognize a refreshing of the cert
2020-06-12 22:22:07	makeworld	I think expiry is still valuable, see above
2020-06-12 22:22:14	makeworld	But why do you care?
2020-06-12 22:22:21	xq	so you notice that the certificate is refreshed
2020-06-12 22:22:28	makeworld	But what does that mean to the user?
2020-06-12 22:22:41	xq	you can always check the expiry date of the cert provided by the server
2020-06-12 22:22:50	xq	as long as the legit owner is in charge
2020-06-12 22:22:55	xq	it can refresh the certificate
2020-06-12 22:23:18	makeworld	But what if I lose the cert and private key?
2020-06-12 22:23:40	makeworld	The advantage of storing the expiry date is that if everything is lost the site will still start working again
2020-06-12 22:23:46	xq	if you lose the cert
2020-06-12 22:23:46	makeworld	After the old cert expires
2020-06-12 22:23:48	xq	yo can make a new one
2020-06-12 22:23:52	xq	if you lose the private key
2020-06-12 22:23:55	xq	you have to rebuild the trust
2020-06-12 22:23:59	xq	(you're a new identity then)
2020-06-12 22:24:12	xq	please note that you need BOTH cert and private key
2020-06-12 22:24:14	xq	to serve a site
2020-06-12 22:24:14	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-12 22:24:21	xq	cert alone doesn't help
2020-06-12 22:24:29	xq	you send the whole certificate to the client anyways
2020-06-12 22:24:39	makeworld	And I guess this helps fix attacks where you wait for the expiry of a cert than MITM to become the new trust
2020-06-12 22:25:14	xq	hm, i can't follow you there…
2020-06-12 22:25:26	xq	the idea of tofu is that you trust the servers keypair
2020-06-12 22:25:39	xq	as long as that keypair is maintained, you cannot MITM the server
2020-06-12 22:25:48	makeworld	No I mean with the thing I was doing
2020-06-12 22:25:59	makeworld	With the storing of the hash and expiry
2020-06-12 22:26:04	xq	storing the expiry date doesn't help anything afaik
2020-06-12 22:26:13	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 22:26:13	xq	you can only re-recognize the same certificate
2020-06-12 22:26:27	makeworld	An attacker could wait until the cert expires, then MITM and have the user add a new hash to their db of the attacker's cert
2020-06-12 22:26:32	makeworld	Under my code
2020-06-12 22:26:34	kensanata	I'm interested in UI feedback: gemini://alexschroeder.ch/do/gallery – I recommend all the Galápagos galleries to take a peek.
2020-06-12 22:27:10	acdw	makeworld: I get it, but if they saved the pubkey it wouldn't work
2020-06-12 22:27:19	acdw	I don't know if I can get the pubkey using openssl s_client
2020-06-12 22:27:23	xq	oh, pictures of boobies!
2020-06-12 22:27:24	xq	i like that
2020-06-12 22:27:39	acdw	you about had me xq, i'm at work rn
2020-06-12 22:27:56	xq	those boobies are perfectly SFW
2020-06-12 22:28:16	acdw	hahaha
2020-06-12 22:28:22	makeworld	xq: Under my system any cert can replace another, once it expires. Which is obv bad, I see that now
2020-06-12 22:28:31	acdw	also great pictures kensanata! I'm def going to use this site to work on my downloading logic
2020-06-12 22:28:33	xq	oh, true :D
2020-06-12 22:28:37	acdw	b/c it leaves a lot to be desired
2020-06-12 22:29:02	makeworld	But the main issue that you brought up is that if you change the cert early it will cause an error
2020-06-12 22:29:12	xq	yeah
2020-06-12 22:29:25	xq	i think i'll write a mail to the ML :D
2020-06-12 22:30:13	makeworld	About how to do TOFU? That'd be great
2020-06-12 22:30:13	acdw	oh fun!
2020-06-12 22:30:17	acdw	yes pls
2020-06-12 22:31:18	acdw	and oh! I can chain options with openssl x509
2020-06-12 22:31:44	xq	yeah, about TOFU
2020-06-12 22:31:44	acdw	so `openssl x509 -pubkey -dates -...` will get me everything I need and I can pop that in a file by like, domain
2020-06-12 22:32:26		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-12 22:33:15	makeworld	xq: Why store the fingerprint along with the pubkey, like why does it matter if the cert is refreshed or not, as long as the pubkey matches?
2020-06-12 22:33:25	xq	nah, doesn#t really matter
2020-06-12 22:33:37	xq	i would just announce to the user that something has changed in a non-intrusive way
2020-06-12 22:35:17	makeworld	Ah okay
2020-06-12 22:35:30	makeworld	https://tildegit.org/sloum/bombadillo/issues/173
2020-06-12 22:35:36	makeworld	Made that issue for Bombadillo about it
2020-06-12 22:35:43	makeworld	Lmk if I should rewrite something
2020-06-12 22:36:56	makeworld	acdw: Sorry, cache time haha
2020-06-12 22:37:10	acdw	:D
2020-06-12 22:37:13	acdw	no worries!
2020-06-12 22:37:41	acdw	speaking of certificates: https://drewdevault.com/tls/security/oauth/2020/06/12/Can-we-talk-about-client-side-certs.html
2020-06-12 22:37:54	makeworld	My unreleased browser caches any text/gemini or text/plain pages, storing the rendered page, url and the link. The max number of pages and/or the max cache size in bytes is configurable
2020-06-12 22:38:11	makeworld	The cache is just in-memory, so it starts whenever the browser is opened
2020-06-12 22:38:31	acdw	oh cool -- yes I was thinking about an in-memory cache so like, backs and forwards wouldn't do a round-trip with the server
2020-06-12 22:38:47	makeworld	The cache is organized by URLs, and I also normalize the URLs so that if it has :1965 or no port it doesn't create a double entry
2020-06-12 22:38:50	makeworld	Yeah exactly
2020-06-12 22:39:08	makeworld	And when you reload a page, it clears the cache for that URL, then tries to load it again
2020-06-12 22:39:16	makeworld	So it's trivial for the user to get an updated version
2020-06-12 22:39:19	acdw	that makes a lot of sense! And I need to make sure I normalize URLs for like, my history too
2020-06-12 22:39:20	acdw	YES!
2020-06-12 22:39:25	acdw	that's exactly what I was thinking
2020-06-12 22:39:33	makeworld	And also at the moment I don't cache any URLs with query strings
2020-06-12 22:39:42	acdw	so glad that you're also thinking it--it makes me think that I'm on the right track
2020-06-12 22:39:44	makeworld	To prevent unexpected behaviour
2020-06-12 22:39:46	makeworld	:)
2020-06-12 22:39:57	acdw	that makes a lot of sense -- usu. those would be dynamic
2020-06-12 22:40:05	acdw	hmm the other thing is cgi scripts
2020-06-12 22:40:20	acdw	like there's a page somewhere that gives the current time, that wouldn't be good to cache
2020-06-12 22:40:26	acdw	but I'm not sure how to heuristic those things
2020-06-12 22:40:36	makeworld	Also maybe I should not serve cached results when the user manually types a URL? Idk
2020-06-12 22:40:47	makeworld	Well I could just search for "/cgi-bin/"
2020-06-12 22:41:02	acdw	hmm
2020-06-12 22:41:10	acdw	I was thinking about /cgi-bin/ or /cgi/
2020-06-12 22:41:27	acdw	Whatever it is it should prabably be configurable
2020-06-12 22:41:47	makeworld	But anyway you can't actually determine whether it's CGI or not
2020-06-12 22:42:07	acdw	yeah I figured.
2020-06-12 22:42:08	acdw	womp
2020-06-12 22:42:23	acdw	Does HTTP have some header about CGI-ness? Or how do they do it?
2020-06-12 22:42:30	acdw	I"m guessing it's about 10201923810293810832% more complicated
2020-06-12 22:42:37	makeworld	Lol, idk
2020-06-12 22:43:33	acdw	I'm loving this, by the way, about geminispace: it's like everyone's kind of figuring it out together
2020-06-12 22:43:48	makeworld	Yeah :)
2020-06-12 22:44:51	acdw	I'm wondering if SirCmpwn has been reading around gemini...that article about client certs is basically everything that's been on the mailing list
2020-06-12 22:45:17	makeworld	acdw: He definitely knows about it, he might have a site?
2020-06-12 22:45:23	acdw	oh wild
2020-06-12 22:45:26	makeworld	Drew Devault you mean right?
2020-06-12 22:45:28	acdw	yes
2020-06-12 22:45:32	acdw	right the real name
2020-06-12 22:45:33	acdw	lol
2020-06-12 22:45:42	makeworld	He said he might but sr.ht on Gemini I think, I don't remember
2020-06-12 22:46:24	acdw	oh that'd be cool, I've been wishing I could host bollux on gemini since it is gemini
2020-06-12 22:46:39	⚡	makeworld afk
2020-06-12 22:51:01	xq	oh, conman approves my ideas :D
2020-06-12 22:52:38	acdw	oh nice! You already wrote it up :)
2020-06-12 22:53:32	▬▬▶	dozens has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 22:55:04	@tomasino	the mailing list loves you
2020-06-12 22:55:56	xq	well, we discussed the heavy parts already
2020-06-12 22:56:08	xq	thoughts are there, only need to put it into words :D
2020-06-12 22:56:47	acdw	So basically, TOFU but with pubkeys instead of certs?
2020-06-12 22:57:45	xq	yeah
2020-06-12 22:57:54	acdw	cool :)
2020-06-12 22:57:55	acdw	o/
2020-06-12 22:58:00		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 23:08:58		pekka20 has left #gemini
2020-06-12 23:15:13	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 23:15:28		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-12 23:20:05	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-06-12 23:23:07	xq	test 1 2
2020-06-12 23:27:58	makeworld	Pong
2020-06-12 23:28:28	xq	thanks :)
2020-06-12 23:28:33	xq	migration of ZNC to a new server: successful
2020-06-12 23:29:58	xq	*grin* tomorrow i can implement the TOFU stuff :)
2020-06-12 23:51:44		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-13 00:01:29	▬▬▶	ikskuh has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 00:07:13		ikskuh has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 00:08:07	xq	whoopsies
2020-06-13 00:14:45	bard	https://cybre.space/@grainloom/104333762177627370
2020-06-13 00:31:32	makeworld	tomasino: Did you end up working more on that logo or do you want to publish it somewhere as is?
2020-06-13 01:29:11	▬▬▶	lickthecat_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 01:30:52	@tomasino	Logo?
2020-06-13 01:31:37	@tomasino	Was I working on a logo? Did I forget?
2020-06-13 01:49:23		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 01:51:38	ℹ 	lickthecat_ is now known as lickthecat
2020-06-13 02:28:17		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 02:28:32	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 02:32:26		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 02:32:30	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 02:42:10		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 03:04:35	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg-test has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 03:08:43		tiwesdaeg-test has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 03:08:58	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg-test has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 03:28:20		tiwesdaeg-test has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-13 03:29:21	makeworld	tomasino: The gemini logo?
2020-06-13 03:29:32	makeworld	Please don't tell me I'm getting you confused with someone else..
2020-06-13 03:29:37	makeworld	Sorry if so, yoinks
2020-06-13 03:37:01	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 03:50:48	▬▬▶	TomDotTom has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 03:53:03		TomDotTom has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 04:11:13	dozens	spend some time tonight setting up my pod: gemini://breadpunk.club:1965/~bakersdozen/
2020-06-13 04:18:13		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 04:40:15	dozens	what's the noun for those who gemini?
2020-06-13 04:40:29	dozens	astronauts?
2020-06-13 05:35:28	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 05:35:50	Nalaph	Out of curiousity, would there be any interest in a gemini server written in C#?
2020-06-13 05:36:46	Nalaph	I know C# is generally a bit more "heavyweight" compared to the languages that currently have gemini servers written for them.
2020-06-13 06:26:27	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 06:26:39		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-13 08:00:17	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 08:00:51	lukee	Hi @Nalaph - yes I'd be interested in a Gemini server in c# if you're writing one.
2020-06-13 08:01:17	lukee	My client GemiNaut is in C#
2020-06-13 08:17:32	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 08:20:27	kensanata	🚀🚀
2020-06-13 08:41:02	@tomasino	.net Core? Mono deployable?
2020-06-13 08:41:30	lukee	why not
2020-06-13 08:41:57	@tomasino	Then sure
2020-06-13 08:42:03	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-13 08:42:21	@tomasino	I mean, do it anyway however you like
2020-06-13 08:42:30	@tomasino	It will get used
2020-06-13 08:43:44	@tomasino	makeworld: not me, though I guess I could... But I think it was someone else in here
2020-06-13 08:45:33	lukee	I think it was tiwesdaeg doing the logo
2020-06-13 08:49:19	lukee	there are plenty of c# libraries to get started with for things like TLS, some from microsoft, others too
2020-06-13 09:23:30		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-13 09:35:50	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 10:55:30	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 11:06:57	thombles	alas. "Gemini: These are two signs that have a great tendency to bring out the worst in each other. Gemini sees Virgo as incredibly dull and boring while Virgo sees Gemini as too impractical and flighty. Virgo’s rigidity further clashes with the Geminian penchant for fickleness, often causing Gemini to look elsewhere when things begin to sour."
2020-06-13 11:09:18	thombles	one hopes fickleness isn't a defining trait of the protocol :)
2020-06-13 11:17:55	lukee	hopefully not a portent
2020-06-13 11:20:56	lukee	actually it is probably the gemini protocol that is dull and boring
2020-06-13 11:21:00	lukee	in a good way though...
2020-06-13 11:33:55	`epochbot	merp. bunch of mailing-list to read
2020-06-13 11:34:03	`epochbot	637 new
2020-06-13 11:34:43	@tomasino	ouch
2020-06-13 11:35:02	⚡	thombles clicks mark as read
2020-06-13 11:37:16	thombles	I found another esperantist via the GUS server list and we've been having an email discussion about what to actually call gemini. The options are weird
2020-06-13 11:37:54	thombles	A direct translation of "twins" works except it becomes much more obviously plural than it is in english and sounds weird. "Twin" would be stranger
2020-06-13 11:38:54	thombles	if you aim for something similar _sounding_ with a soft G, you get a word which would double as "a feminine groan", or with a hard G "a feminine gem(stone)"
2020-06-13 11:39:18	@tomasino	does the constellation already have a name in esperanto?
2020-06-13 11:39:21	thombles	I think I want to aim for a middle ground and just have a new word
2020-06-13 11:39:44	thombles	Hmm good question
2020-06-13 11:40:03	@tomasino	Ĝemeloj
2020-06-13 11:40:10	@tomasino	looked it up
2020-06-13 11:40:18	thombles	Yeah okay literally "twins"
2020-06-13 11:40:52	`epochbot	I would have assumed it would count as a name
2020-06-13 11:41:32	`epochbot	so wouldn't translate, and more likely just be pronounced as close as the language can phonetically
2020-06-13 11:41:32	@tomasino	it appears to be the only constellation that is plural
2020-06-13 11:41:53	`epochbot	like, is there something written in esperanto about the gemini program?
2020-06-13 11:41:58		mhj has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 11:43:10	thombles	in vikipedio for project gemini they ended up just writing "Gemini" as is through the text https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projekto_Gemini
2020-06-13 11:43:30	`epochbot	that's what I was trying to find.
2020-06-13 11:43:36	`epochbot	was already at the eo.wikipedia
2020-06-13 11:44:05	thombles	It's okayish but kind of sad because you can't inflect it properly
2020-06-13 11:44:22	`epochbot	on the talk page is there a discussion about attempting to translate it differently?
2020-06-13 11:44:39	thombles	negatory, no discussion
2020-06-13 11:44:39	`epochbot	(good thing the URLs are still in english)
2020-06-13 11:44:55	`epochbot	oh well
2020-06-13 11:47:43	thombles	could take a lead from interreto and call it ĝemelreto, which is kind of a nice pun "twin net"
2020-06-13 11:53:05		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-13 11:53:46	~tiwesdaeg	lukee: it was me. I was working with solderpunk on the design.
2020-06-13 12:04:47	`epochbot	is there a place to test that my client is sending SNI?
2020-06-13 12:10:00	`epochbot	got an error with AV-98
2020-06-13 12:10:12	`epochbot	probably a locale problem on my computer
2020-06-13 12:10:49	`epochbot	$ python av98.py
2020-06-13 12:10:49	`epochbot	  File "av98.py", line 843
2020-06-13 12:10:50	`epochbot	SyntaxError: Non-ASCII character '\xe2' in file av98.py on line 843, but no encoding declared; see http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/ for details
2020-06-13 12:13:52	`epochbot	ah, looks like python on my desktop is python2. ew.
2020-06-13 12:21:22	@tomasino	that would be an issue
2020-06-13 12:21:32	@tomasino	python3 -m pip install AV-98
2020-06-13 12:32:36	~tiwesdaeg	lukee: https://ttm.sh/QBx.png
2020-06-13 12:32:45	~tiwesdaeg	That was the final edit
2020-06-13 12:34:29	lukee	very nice.
2020-06-13 13:12:29	lukee	Can we put that sticker up on our websites - what is its reuse status?
2020-06-13 13:19:32	~tiwesdaeg	it's a do whatever you want with it, but it's not my fault if you do bad things with it license
2020-06-13 13:19:58	~tiwesdaeg	I've got the SVG if you want it
2020-06-13 13:33:15	lukee	somewhat ironic to put it on your website though!
2020-06-13 13:36:22	@tomasino	like http://tomasino.sdf.org/ ?
2020-06-13 13:39:53	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 13:42:39	solderpunk	Ahoy!
2020-06-13 13:42:44	@tomasino	hey!
2020-06-13 13:42:46	@tomasino	welcome, buddy
2020-06-13 13:42:49	dkibi	hoi
2020-06-13 13:42:59	ironzorg	hi
2020-06-13 13:43:28	@tomasino	how goes the series of tubes?
2020-06-13 13:44:20	dozens	thombles: saluton, jen alia esperantisto! mdr
2020-06-13 13:44:31	solderpunk	Doing my best to replace it with a series of smaller tubes!
2020-06-13 13:44:45	@tomasino	smoltubez++
2020-06-13 13:45:22	solderpunk	Tiny Tonka trucks you can dump *some* stuff on.
2020-06-13 13:45:31	dkibi	https://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/111-13.jpg
2020-06-13 13:46:01	ironzorg	solderpunk: have you ever thought of a project idea/concept that would benefit most from Gemini's approach to the protocol (TOFU, small footprint etc.)? or you've never had a specific use-case in mind.
2020-06-13 13:46:03	@tomasino	cthulu train
2020-06-13 13:47:13	solderpunk	I guess the driving motivation was always just to enable something vaguely like the phlogosphere.  But I'm definitely very interested in figuring out other things that it's a natural fit for.
2020-06-13 13:47:30	solderpunk	There has been some talk of using it as a replacement for HTTP in small REST-like APIs.
2020-06-13 13:48:00	solderpunk	Where TOFU is less the ideal than pre-shared client cert fingerprints.
2020-06-13 13:48:41	ironzorg	right
2020-06-13 13:49:28	ironzorg	it'd be good to find *something* that doesn't make Gemini sites look like more of the same (i.e. sed 's/HTTP/Gemini/')
2020-06-13 13:49:42	ironzorg	I just have no imagination for that sort of thing.
2020-06-13 13:50:17	solderpunk	Yeah, I totally agree.  You can definitely do some whacky stuff with it.  Using client certs and chaining status code 10 responses together you can basically do something a lot like a remote shell.
2020-06-13 13:50:25	solderpunk	The TLS overhead would be pretty heavy, though.
2020-06-13 13:51:44	ironzorg	:)
2020-06-13 13:53:42	solderpunk	I am sure some creative people will come up with things to use it for which I never even imagined.
2020-06-13 13:54:09	xq	hey solderpunk :)
2020-06-13 13:55:01	solderpunk	Hey xq!
2020-06-13 13:55:26	@tomasino	heyya!
2020-06-13 13:56:50	lukee	hi solderpunk
2020-06-13 13:57:01	xq	solderpunk: client certificate support in Kristall is implemented :)
2020-06-13 13:57:18	@tomasino	i was playing around with fonts in kristall today. Got a nice new stylesheet going: https://ttm.sh/QID.kthm
2020-06-13 13:57:23	solderpunk	Congrats!  I got a brief look at how it works when I watched Tomasino's video last night.
2020-06-13 13:57:39	xq	ah neat!
2020-06-13 13:57:54	@tomasino	oh yeah, now you have a famous client from my tens of views!
2020-06-13 13:57:57	xq	tomasino: i definitly need a quick theme import for Kristall
2020-06-13 13:58:03	solderpunk	I am drafting the client cert related spec changes at the moment.
2020-06-13 13:58:19	solderpunk	Are you currently differentiating between the different 6x statuses at all?
2020-06-13 13:58:27	@tomasino	oh that's good. maybe that'll slow the firehose on the ML a bit
2020-06-13 13:58:28	xq	only in theory :D
2020-06-13 13:58:37	xq	well, the code is, but it's not visible for the user yet
2020-06-13 13:58:51	xq	i think i'll put a message what kind of cert the server expects
2020-06-13 13:58:57	kayw	the mailing list has been waaay to active for me to understand
2020-06-13 13:59:04	solderpunk	The firehose cannot be stopped :p  It is self-perpetuating.
2020-06-13 13:59:11	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-13 13:59:37	@tomasino	it's been a few days. We're due for someone to recommend inline linking again
2020-06-13 13:59:46	jan	creating client certificates in a portable way does not seem easy in rust :(
2020-06-13 14:00:05	jan	i really love the way kristall handles client certificates!
2020-06-13 14:00:23	xq	<tomasino> it's been a few days. We're due for someone to recommend inline linking again
2020-06-13 14:00:24	xq	lol :D
2020-06-13 14:00:25	@tomasino	i do too, though i'll feel better about it when i can export it adn back it up somewhere
2020-06-13 14:00:42	@tomasino	but thanks for reminding me to water my plant
2020-06-13 14:00:54	xq	jan: thanks!
2020-06-13 14:01:03	xq	right now, you cannot import/export those certs
2020-06-13 14:01:17	xq	but just because i haven't had the time to implement it properly
2020-06-13 14:01:30	jan	i'm not sure how i can handle this in ncgopher
2020-06-13 14:01:49	jan	import would be the easiest solution
2020-06-13 14:02:22	jan	but from a users point of view, generation directly in ncgopher would be nice
2020-06-13 14:03:31	xq	yeah
2020-06-13 14:03:42	xq	especially for transient certs it's the thing you want
2020-06-13 14:04:12		admicos has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 14:06:10	solderpunk	I wonder how brutal I should be in trimming this stuff back...is just 3 status codes enough?  60 = Gimme a cert, 61 = That cert's not authorised for this particular resource, 62 = That cert is expired or otherwise invalid in some way not specific to the requested resource.
2020-06-13 14:06:55	@tomasino	if there was a 4th code, what would it say?
2020-06-13 14:07:19	@tomasino	your cert makes you look fat
2020-06-13 14:07:23	@tomasino	?
2020-06-13 14:07:52	xq	solderpunk: sounds good
2020-06-13 14:08:06	solderpunk	I wonder if it's a good idea to add two extra ones to disambiguate 60 a bit - making it clear whether a pre-authorised cert whose fingerprint is on a list is required, or whether you can just generate something on the spot now (with the lifespan up to you) and it'll be good.
2020-06-13 14:08:16	xq	hmm
2020-06-13 14:08:24	xq	i think that's not a bad idea
2020-06-13 14:08:34	solderpunk	Or whether the combination of the META text with a 60, plus context and convention, are enough to make it obvious.
2020-06-13 14:08:34	xq	something like "transient cert required" isn't that bad
2020-06-13 14:08:50	@tomasino	would it be the opposite?
2020-06-13 14:08:52	xq	maybe?
2020-06-13 14:09:02	@tomasino	"any cert required" vs "long-lived cert suggested"
2020-06-13 14:09:48	solderpunk	But there are long-lived certs you just make up (like Astrobotany) and those that are pre-approved (like if you're restricting access to something to people in a particular group).
2020-06-13 14:10:05	solderpunk	That's the distinction people need to be clear on to make a good informed choice.
2020-06-13 14:10:31	@tomasino	hmmm
2020-06-13 14:10:48	@tomasino	is that information designed to be fed back to the user?
2020-06-13 14:11:19	solderpunk	I think it should be?  If a server is checking certs against a list of authorised certs, people are wasting their time generating a new one.
2020-06-13 14:11:26	xq	it definitly should be
2020-06-13 14:12:03	@tomasino	is that message uniform to the code, or is it something the server will want to communicate specifically to the user about
2020-06-13 14:12:08	@tomasino	like, the difference between:
2020-06-13 14:12:14	@tomasino	"Authorization required" or...
2020-06-13 14:12:27	@tomasino	"To enter this section you'll need to request a cert from the admin"
2020-06-13 14:13:48	solderpunk	Maybe I'm over thinking this.  I imagine most resources that are behind a certificate whitelist will probably not be publically linked to.
2020-06-13 14:14:01	solderpunk	Either that, or the entire server will be, which makes it pretty clear what is going on.
2020-06-13 14:14:15	@tomasino	you don't think they'll have something like astrobotany where there's a link to the app area
2020-06-13 14:14:22	@tomasino	or a "Enter the restricted zone!"
2020-06-13 14:14:46	solderpunk	Well, apps like astrobotany are using a whitelist, they'll just accept a cert you make up on the spot.
2020-06-13 14:14:50	ironzorg	60=cert required; 61=I don't accept this cert - EOF
2020-06-13 14:14:58	solderpunk	So there's no risk of disappointment or confusion.
2020-06-13 14:14:58	@tomasino	if i were going to run a private forum, for instance, i'd have a public page about the forum with info on what it's about, how to contact peolpe and get access... and then a login/enter link
2020-06-13 14:15:11	solderpunk	Hmm.
2020-06-13 14:15:36	solderpunk	Okay, but it should be very obvious from context, then, that you can't just make up a cert on the spot.
2020-06-13 14:15:43	solderpunk	There's no need to also convey it in the status code.
2020-06-13 14:15:49	@tomasino	cool
2020-06-13 14:15:54	@tomasino	i guess you have your answer then. :)
2020-06-13 14:15:58	solderpunk	I think so.
2020-06-13 14:16:24	solderpunk	Best, anyway, to strip it back maximally now and add more later if there are clear problems.
2020-06-13 14:17:49	solderpunk	ironzorg, I do think it's useful to provide *some* information on why a cert isn't being accepted.
2020-06-13 14:18:07	@tomasino	honestly, if it leads to people just having a bit of text above the link saying "you'll need to negotiate a cert with the admin before you can proceed" that's not a bad thing at all
2020-06-13 14:18:26	ironzorg	there are so many reasons why a cert wouldn't be accepted, I don't know if it's worth it having all of them in the protocol
2020-06-13 14:19:41	solderpunk	I agree there's no need to give them all their own code.  But making it clear if the problem is with the certificate itself, or is specific to the particular resource, seems like a good idea.
2020-06-13 14:19:58	ironzorg	fair enough
2020-06-13 14:21:13	@tomasino	so it distinguishes between "the client provided something that isn't valid" vs "the server has said what you supplied isn't sufficient for this action" ?
2020-06-13 14:22:04	solderpunk	Yeah, basically.
2020-06-13 14:22:17	@tomasino	what would client authors do differently based on that result?
2020-06-13 14:22:52	solderpunk	"Your driver's license / passport has expired" vs "This driver's license is fine and I believe your name really is Tomasino, but your name isn't on my list of awesome people to let in the door".
2020-06-13 14:23:31	solderpunk	They could prompt to generate a new cert, if the problem is with the cert itself.
2020-06-13 14:23:46	@tomasino	i love having the info as a user, but that's where a message that's variable becomes useful. A separate code is useful to the client itself. What would it's different action be based on those two scenarios? Prompt the user for a different cert?
2020-06-13 14:24:47	@tomasino	not a criticism of the idea, just honestly don't know the answer
2020-06-13 14:25:49	⚡	tomasino listens from over there as he makes a kid lunch
2020-06-13 14:27:23	solderpunk	Bloody hell!  It's hard to be motivated to hack on Molly Brown when people are churning out stuff like https://github.com/pitr/gig!
2020-06-13 14:31:41	@tomasino	Molly is still lovely
2020-06-13 14:33:00	xq	oh wow
2020-06-13 14:33:13	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 14:33:22	xq	looks like i don't need to write my own server but just learn go :D
2020-06-13 14:33:29	xq	(wanted to do that anyways)
2020-06-13 14:35:21	solderpunk	I really want to learn it properly, I've just been picking it up as I go along working on Molly and Shizaru.
2020-06-13 14:35:34	solderpunk	Both of which probably look very amateurish to somebody who knows what they're doing.
2020-06-13 14:35:51	solderpunk	But I quite enjoy the language so far.  I'll be very happy if they get setuid working properly.
2020-06-13 14:36:39	xq	hehe :)
2020-06-13 14:37:21	xq	btw, i'm brainstorming about some gemini-based game :)
2020-06-13 14:38:04	@tomasino	Door game style like we were talking about?
2020-06-13 14:38:46	xq	probably, yes
2020-06-13 14:38:50	xq	nothing too magic
2020-06-13 14:39:18	@tomasino	now that it's been explained to me a bit more, i think i want to explore creating more robust utf-8 art
2020-06-13 14:39:24	@tomasino	like the ansi of old
2020-06-13 14:40:13		rb100 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-13 14:40:24	xq	go for it!
2020-06-13 14:41:18	solderpunk	Good ANSI art is really great.
2020-06-13 14:41:28	xq	yep
2020-06-13 14:41:35	solderpunk	I'm pretty sure the same, or very similar, characters are available in Unicode.
2020-06-13 14:41:36	xq	the demoscener approves
2020-06-13 14:41:45	solderpunk	Oh, of course.
2020-06-13 14:41:51	solderpunk	I mean, it's not as good as PETSCII :p
2020-06-13 14:41:59	xq	solderpunk: afaik unicode has *all* symbols available in the ansi codepages
2020-06-13 14:42:07	xq	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box-drawing_character
2020-06-13 14:42:31	xq	╒══════════╪╪╦╦╦
2020-06-13 14:42:31	solderpunk	Nice!
2020-06-13 14:42:35	xq	yeah
2020-06-13 14:42:40	xq	wikipedia is really awesome on unicode blocks
2020-06-13 14:42:54	solderpunk	Oh, and the "Block Elements" look a little PETSCIIy, too.
2020-06-13 14:43:17	@tomasino	monodraw has most of what i need, but it's mac only
2020-06-13 14:43:33	@tomasino	i'd like to add color options and a way to save it out with escape codes
2020-06-13 14:43:52	⚡	tomasino tosses it on the pile of hobby ideas
2020-06-13 14:47:11	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 15:00:21		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 15:01:00	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 15:03:26	makeworld	I don't totally get why everyone keeps extending gemini to do writes
2020-06-13 15:04:11	xq	how do you author your site?
2020-06-13 15:04:17	ironzorg	solderpunk: so what's more likely going to happen with the "response of the body in the header" issue?
2020-06-13 15:04:55	solderpunk	Sorry, I don't follow you.  Which issue?
2020-06-13 15:05:12	makeworld	xq: Personally? Over SSH or NFS
2020-06-13 15:05:36	ironzorg	solderpunk: "Wide load" status code(s)
2020-06-13 15:05:45	solderpunk	Oh!
2020-06-13 15:05:53	solderpunk	I don't think I'll bother.
2020-06-13 15:06:20	xq	makeworld: that's my current way of authoriing as well. but i find it appealing to be able to just klick on "edit" in Kristall and push an update to the site
2020-06-13 15:06:36	makeworld	I guess... It just seems a bit much
2020-06-13 15:06:47	solderpunk	I am really torn on that issue.
2020-06-13 15:06:57	solderpunk	I totally get the philosophy behind it.
2020-06-13 15:07:15	lukee	also not every end user who wants to write in gemini will be a sysadmin familiar with ssh and the rest
2020-06-13 15:07:16	solderpunk	If publishing to Gemini requires you to get ssh of sftp access to a server and push your files, 99% of people will never be able to use it.
2020-06-13 15:07:32	makeworld	Hmm yeah
2020-06-13 15:07:36	solderpunk	If you can do it from within the client with no technical skills, it's accessible to anybody.
2020-06-13 15:07:52	lukee	like the original wiki by ward cunningham
2020-06-13 15:08:01	solderpunk	Which could really, dramatically shift the project's destiny.
2020-06-13 15:08:02	ironzorg	the idea of a progress bar in case of a big download sounded good though
2020-06-13 15:08:05	solderpunk	On the other hand...
2020-06-13 15:08:25	solderpunk	Being able to publish that way could foster a culture of dependency.
2020-06-13 15:08:43	solderpunk	It will probably lead quite quickly to commercial hosting services.
2020-06-13 15:08:54	ironzorg	I can see somebody downloading a single-page documentation file for an entire framework over 4G :)
2020-06-13 15:09:37	lukee	yes the question is who is it for?
2020-06-13 15:09:45	solderpunk	Progress bars for big downloads are a good idea, but I don't think they need the 2x codes to facilitate it.  Once a download exceeds a few KB, the client can just start drawing some kind of animationto make it clear something is happening.
2020-06-13 15:10:18	ironzorg	you could have chunked replies too :p
2020-06-13 15:10:29	ironzorg	the server would decide what constitutes a "big reply"
2020-06-13 15:11:01	solderpunk	Commercial hosts would probably provide their own clients, to make things easier, and then they could start support extensions to text/gemini, etc., etc.
2020-06-13 15:11:32	makeworld	Uh oh
2020-06-13 15:11:42	solderpunk	I dunno, maybe that's paranoid.
2020-06-13 15:11:50	lukee	hmm mm
2020-06-13 15:12:02	solderpunk	I just really like the idea of people being self sufficient online.
2020-06-13 15:12:15	lukee	the commercial internet already exists - they can have as many adverts and tracing as they need
2020-06-13 15:12:29	lukee	we can keep it text focussed
2020-06-13 15:12:42	lukee	which is not easily monetisable
2020-06-13 15:13:10	solderpunk	I mean, that's the other issue, about making it accessible even to not very technical people: how many not very technical people are going to have *any* interest in choosing Gemini over the web?
2020-06-13 15:14:02	ironzorg	those who don't have 4GB of RAM required to run a browser nowadays!
2020-06-13 15:14:48	xq	solderpunk: i actually think there are a lot of people that don't know *yet* that they would rather like gemini instead of the web
2020-06-13 15:15:11	makeworld	Yeah that's fair
2020-06-13 15:15:12	xq	the one thing missing is a good android client and some interesting content to read :)
2020-06-13 15:15:22	lukee	writers
2020-06-13 15:15:22	xq	because gemini is much more suited for mobile than the web
2020-06-13 15:15:29	makeworld	Did you see the ml post about a new Android client
2020-06-13 15:15:34	lukee	people who want a simpler life
2020-06-13 15:15:37	lukee	better performance
2020-06-13 15:15:41	lukee	less tracking...
2020-06-13 15:15:42	xq	makeworld: yes, haven#t had the time to check it out
2020-06-13 15:15:48	makeworld	Me neither
2020-06-13 15:16:02	makeworld	lukee: Yes yes yes! I think it could be really attractive
2020-06-13 15:16:18	solderpunk	Nor I, but I'm excited, the other Android client is nice but could easily be improved upon.
2020-06-13 15:16:35	makeworld	Now I'm thinking of my gf who's somewhat interested, but on Windows and stuff
2020-06-13 15:16:46	xq	i have to prepare a talk for tomorrow, but i'll try to make Kristall also available on Android
2020-06-13 15:17:30	makeworld	But now I can tell her to use Geminaut, so that's cool
2020-06-13 15:17:36	makeworld	Woah really?
2020-06-13 15:17:48	solderpunk	makeworld: After install GemiNaut on windows, my wife is also somewhat interested, so I'm very susceptible to this idea of making it more easily accessible to people who aren't comfortable with scp/sftp/etc.
2020-06-13 15:18:19	solderpunk	I'm just a little irrationally worried, this feels *so* much like we are just racing down the old tracks laid out by the web.
2020-06-13 15:19:42	lukee	we just need some clear blue water between us and the web.
2020-06-13 15:19:43	~tiwesdaeg	xq: did you figure out the qt issues?
2020-06-13 15:19:49	xq	nah, not yet
2020-06-13 15:19:57	makeworld	Like by making things too easy solderpunk? Worried about eternal september?
2020-06-13 15:19:57	lukee	them: inline images,
2020-06-13 15:20:00	lukee	inline scripts
2020-06-13 15:20:03	lukee	cookies
2020-06-13 15:20:04	xq	i want to build qt for android not from AUR but by hand
2020-06-13 15:20:08	lukee	incoherent UI
2020-06-13 15:20:10	lukee	us...
2020-06-13 15:20:58	makeworld	solderpunk: I think the protocol actually limits the eternal september bc there's not much room for advancement of crazy stuff
2020-06-13 15:21:26	solderpunk	Less eternal september, more excessive reliance on third parties offering services beyond the user's control.
2020-06-13 15:22:18	solderpunk	And the centralisation that tends to follow from that.
2020-06-13 15:22:35	makeworld	Ah I see
2020-06-13 15:22:48	makeworld	Well most users will need to rely on someone providing a server
2020-06-13 15:23:02	makeworld	Not much getting around that
2020-06-13 15:23:18	makeworld	But ideally we can make it like fedi
2020-06-13 15:23:24	makeworld	With many server options
2020-06-13 15:23:45	makeworld	You should create a "Hosting Options" page
2020-06-13 15:25:02	makeworld	With links to all the servers that offer space and a sentence about each of them
2020-06-13 15:25:08	makeworld	Maybe I should do it, haha
2020-06-13 15:25:11	solderpunk	True, in this day and age of cheap VPSes and RPis, it's much, much easier for individuals or small clubs etc. to put up hosts than it was in the early days of blogging services.
2020-06-13 15:25:22	solderpunk	There is such a list in the FAQ, near the end.
2020-06-13 15:25:26	solderpunk	Maybe section 3.3?  I forget.
2020-06-13 15:25:31	solderpunk	But it's a short list so far.
2020-06-13 15:25:36	xq	i think self-hosting on an RPI is too much for for all non-technical people
2020-06-13 15:25:56	makeworld	Ah I see
2020-06-13 15:26:01	xq	as much as it appeals to me, you have to learn more than just "how to click a website and drop in some stuff via windows explorer + ftp"
2020-06-13 15:26:22	makeworld	xq: Yes, but I think sp's point was that for the technical users, it's much easier to set up hosts for others to use then it was before
2020-06-13 15:27:21	xq	yeah probably
2020-06-13 15:27:36	xq	i hope so :)
2020-06-13 15:27:39	solderpunk	Right, which means we have a much better chance of ending up with thousands of small providers of easy Gemini hosting, like the fediverse, rather than a handful of massive ones (like Wordpress, Blogspot, etc.)
2020-06-13 15:28:13	makeworld	fingers crossed
2020-06-13 15:28:43	xq	i'm tempted to provide some user space on random-projects.net as well
2020-06-13 15:28:50	xq	have to plan it through though
2020-06-13 15:31:23	@tomasino	i suppose if those systems all existed it would be easy to sign up for a service with one, exchange cert goodness, and then do everything for your site via your client
2020-06-13 15:31:31	@tomasino	edit and view both
2020-06-13 15:31:34	@tomasino	that's kinda neat
2020-06-13 15:31:54	ironzorg	somebody could extend the protocol to make a federated network of Gemini servers… for whatever reason
2020-06-13 15:32:06	@tomasino	i mean... isn't it already?
2020-06-13 15:32:16	@tomasino	we talk to each other via an established protocol
2020-06-13 15:32:25	@tomasino	and anyone can run a node
2020-06-13 15:32:47	ironzorg	Gemini servers do not communicate with each other, that would also create tons of problems
2020-06-13 15:33:15	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/phlog/20180627-federation-and-gopher - relevant musics when it was gopher as the topic
2020-06-13 15:34:05	solderpunk	I mean, Gemini servers *could* talk with one another.
2020-06-13 15:34:18	solderpunk	In fact, the "upload" problem is solved in that case.
2020-06-13 15:34:31	solderpunk	They can just pass URLs between each other.
2020-06-13 15:35:08	solderpunk	Like, you could build any kind of P2P network on top of it, just like you could build one on top of HTTPS.
2020-06-13 15:36:08	ironzorg	yup
2020-06-13 15:36:37	ironzorg	you could run a mailing list without SMTP on that :p
2020-06-13 15:39:03	solderpunk	At last!
2020-06-13 15:40:08	solderpunk	IMHO the URL passing approach is *way* more elegant than the proposed upload extensions.  It's just a shame that somehow we *still* all live behind IPv4 NATs so this doesn't work for "normal" people.
2020-06-13 15:40:33	solderpunk	Hopefully that will change one day - which perhaps argues in favour of leaving the extensions as separate extensions, so we can leave them behind one day.
2020-06-13 15:40:39	makeworld	Yeah, I was thinking about URL passing
2020-06-13 15:40:57	solderpunk	Btw, I love the heck out of the idea of calling the upload helper extension "Titan", if whoever suggested that is here.
2020-06-13 15:42:46	@tomasino	so you mean that if i want to edit a page, my client will fetch it, store it temporarily, make it editable to me, and serve it back as a gemini page with a URL @ my current IP on some user-space port... and when i "save" i'm actually transmitting an upload request to the server that points back to the URL of my temporarily staged document so the server can fetch it and replace its
2020-06-13 15:42:46	@tomasino	copy?
2020-06-13 15:42:56	@tomasino	or did i just massively misread what you're talking about with URL passing
2020-06-13 15:43:20	lukee	like a "pull request"
2020-06-13 15:44:00	solderpunk	No, you pretty much nailed it.
2020-06-13 15:44:23	solderpunk	To upload something you serve it yourself, using a random and short-lived URL, which you pass to the server you want to upload to.
2020-06-13 15:44:38	lukee	still IP6 is always just 2 years till total adoption...
2020-06-13 15:44:40	@tomasino	okay, i ... actually love that
2020-06-13 15:44:45	solderpunk	Me too!
2020-06-13 15:44:54	lukee	I think it is nice
2020-06-13 15:44:56	solderpunk	Like, we could even just use status code 12 for it.
2020-06-13 15:45:01	makeworld	It's great, but it won't work for most users so I think it's a no go from the start
2020-06-13 15:45:11	solderpunk	And even in dumb clients, you could just paste the URL into the query form.
2020-06-13 15:45:39	@tomasino	if your client didn't support it people could write separate upload/replace utilities pretty easily
2020-06-13 15:45:52	@tomasino	provide it the destination URL, your source URL, and a client cert that validates it
2020-06-13 15:45:53	solderpunk	Yeah, you could totally put a smooth UI around it.
2020-06-13 15:45:55	makeworld	But most users won't have a public IP address
2020-06-13 15:46:00	solderpunk	Exactly.
2020-06-13 15:46:02	solderpunk	For now.
2020-06-13 15:46:13	makeworld	For the foreseeable future
2020-06-13 15:46:17	@tomasino	proxy push or something something
2020-06-13 15:46:18	solderpunk	But it works fantastic for inter-server communication, like in the P2P network idea discussed above.
2020-06-13 15:46:21	@tomasino	ttm.sh style
2020-06-13 15:46:32	makeworld	Yeah between servers it's pretty cool
2020-06-13 15:46:46	makeworld	But for most users you're gonna want some sort of write protocol
2020-06-13 15:46:52	solderpunk	Agreed.
2020-06-13 15:47:03	solderpunk	I just think maybe it should be a separate optional extension.
2020-06-13 15:47:24	solderpunk	So that One Happy Day when we all have public IPv6 addresses up the wazoo, we can leave it behind, and do the elegant URL passing thing.
2020-06-13 15:47:48	lukee	t+2 years for any value of t?
2020-06-13 15:47:53	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-13 15:48:06	@tomasino	vodafone doesn't offer ipv6 here
2020-06-13 15:48:15	@tomasino	i believe verizon still doesn't to most markets in the US
2020-06-13 15:48:15	solderpunk	Rather than permanently uglying up the core spec forever in order to work around an embarrassing shortcoming of the current internet.
2020-06-13 15:48:44	@tomasino	i think if you do your fancy URL passing thing now, the ugly would be less ugly as people just write some proxy pushers
2020-06-13 15:48:48	lukee	I dont see why it makes the spec ugly, but each to their own
2020-06-13 15:48:56	@tomasino	as opposed to a +write
2020-06-13 15:49:19	makeworld	But proxy pushers centralize things
2020-06-13 15:49:51	@tomasino	well, sorta, but not really
2020-06-13 15:49:53	solderpunk	Well, small specs are always prettier than large specs. :)
2020-06-13 15:50:16	lukee	adopted specs are always better than niche ones
2020-06-13 15:50:19	lukee	:)
2020-06-13 15:50:20	@tomasino	you can proxy your content anywhere. it just needs to be at a URL when you tell the server where to grab it
2020-06-13 15:50:33	solderpunk	Touché!
2020-06-13 15:51:26	@tomasino	oh, easy peasy... just do it all over tor. :)
2020-06-13 15:51:32	@tomasino	bam, onioned
2020-06-13 15:52:24	@tomasino	but yeah, seriously... nice ideas guys
2020-06-13 15:52:46	solderpunk	Or that Yggdrasil thing.
2020-06-13 15:52:56	solderpunk	Which I will find time to play with if you guys ever leave me alone :p
2020-06-13 15:53:05	@tomasino	that'll never happen
2020-06-13 15:53:08	lukee	:D
2020-06-13 15:53:12	solderpunk	Haha, you're right.
2020-06-13 15:53:13	⚡	tomasino pokes solderpunk
2020-06-13 15:53:16	solderpunk	I am bound to the firehose.
2020-06-13 15:53:31	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXc5ltzKq3Y
2020-06-13 15:54:13	makeworld	Yggdrasil is very cool
2020-06-13 15:54:39	~tiwesdaeg	speaking of easy to spin up VPSs, I just setup a $15/yr vps to try out an irc bouncer
2020-06-13 15:54:39	solderpunk	xj9 is/was running a Gemini server on it.
2020-06-13 15:54:58	@tomasino	$15/yr? wow, nice
2020-06-13 15:55:01	~tiwesdaeg	I even bought a .de domain since they are so cheap
2020-06-13 15:55:19	~tiwesdaeg	it's 1gb ram 15gb drive
2020-06-13 15:55:30	@tomasino	i'm sitting on 1338.ninja if anyone has an idea for it
2020-06-13 15:55:36	@tomasino	it's leet++
2020-06-13 15:56:03	~tiwesdaeg	I used to work on a Coast Guard ship with the hull number 1335
2020-06-13 15:56:12	~tiwesdaeg	I always felt it was just 2 numbers away from leetness
2020-06-13 15:56:13	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: What host is that?
2020-06-13 15:56:16	solderpunk	Haha, so close.
2020-06-13 15:56:21	companion_cube	is it wrong to think of gemini as a sort of hobby? :)
2020-06-13 15:56:32	makeworld	No
2020-06-13 15:56:33	~tiwesdaeg	desivps.com
2020-06-13 15:56:39	solderpunk	Sometimes it feels more like a job :p
2020-06-13 15:56:50	~tiwesdaeg	they're based out of india I think
2020-06-13 15:57:02	~tiwesdaeg	this was a lowendbox link
2020-06-13 15:57:02	solderpunk	But, no, I think that's a great attitude.
2020-06-13 15:57:07	makeworld	Which one did you go for?
2020-06-13 15:57:08	companion_cube	heh, but do y'all hope for it to become more widely used?
2020-06-13 15:57:11	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-13 15:57:13	~tiwesdaeg	let me find it
2020-06-13 15:57:35	~tiwesdaeg	I needed kvm with custom iso option so I could install freebsd
2020-06-13 15:57:35	companion_cube	I wonder where the cursor between simplicity of implem, and features, lies, then
2020-06-13 15:57:55	solderpunk	It's a very tricky question.
2020-06-13 15:58:32	@tomasino	i guess it's an opinionated place
2020-06-13 15:58:49	companion_cube	say, if the gemini text format was replaced with markdown
2020-06-13 15:58:54	companion_cube	(or a simple subset of it)
2020-06-13 15:59:02	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: https://lowendbox.com/blog/desivps-1gb-kvm-vps-from-15-year-in-los-angeles/
2020-06-13 15:59:15	makeworld	Huh thanks
2020-06-13 15:59:23	solderpunk	People who want more than text/gemini offers can just use Gemini to serve markdown, though.
2020-06-13 15:59:28	solderpunk	With the appropriate MIME type.
2020-06-13 15:59:34	companion_cube	it's a question of culture
2020-06-13 15:59:35	@tomasino	yep yep text/markdown and be done
2020-06-13 15:59:47	companion_cube	you can send other things than html on browsers, yet it's the default
2020-06-13 15:59:53	companion_cube	receive*
2020-06-13 16:00:01	~tiwesdaeg	I have one markdown file on libraryoferis.org
2020-06-13 16:00:12	solderpunk	Sure.
2020-06-13 16:00:15	@tomasino	kensanata serves almost everything in markdown, i believe
2020-06-13 16:00:21	solderpunk	And the cultural default of Gemini is radical simplicity.
2020-06-13 16:00:22	makeworld	Not anymore
2020-06-13 16:00:23	~tiwesdaeg	kristall displays it almost correctly ;P
2020-06-13 16:00:27	@tomasino	ahh, he transformed it?
2020-06-13 16:00:29	makeworld	He converted a lot of it
2020-06-13 16:00:31	makeworld	I think so
2020-06-13 16:00:33	@tomasino	cool cool
2020-06-13 16:00:49	companion_cube	but is radical simplicity compatible with adoption? :)
2020-06-13 16:00:52	solderpunk	Haha, Gemtext has conquered the inferior markup :p
2020-06-13 16:00:55	solderpunk	Perhaps not.
2020-06-13 16:01:10	solderpunk	Mass appeal and wide adoption was never an explicit goal.
2020-06-13 16:01:14	@tomasino	i'll tell you what... i was clicking around fedi early this morning and found a blind woman chatting with friends about Gemini asking questions and already going deep into accessibility questions. 
2020-06-13 16:01:28	solderpunk	I never even dreamed of it until these wiki-geeks turned up :p
2020-06-13 16:01:43	solderpunk	Wow, really?
2020-06-13 16:01:44	@tomasino	her essential features list is far different than some we've had on the ML
2020-06-13 16:01:45	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-13 16:01:53	makeworld	There are only 6 markdown files on all of Gemini now, according to GUS
2020-06-13 16:02:04	makeworld	Thanks to kensanata they used to outnumber the gemini ones lol
2020-06-13 16:02:06	@tomasino	"gemtext" is hat official now?
2020-06-13 16:02:09	lukee	What does a blind person want from Gemini?
2020-06-13 16:02:24	solderpunk	Eh, I haven't announced it, but it's stuck in my mind.
2020-06-13 16:02:27	solderpunk	Yeah, how are we doing so far?
2020-06-13 16:02:30	@tomasino	semantics and alt text
2020-06-13 16:02:33	makeworld	tomasino: Got a link? That's cool
2020-06-13 16:02:33	@tomasino	it's got #1 already
2020-06-13 16:02:38	@tomasino	and #2 is .... 
2020-06-13 16:02:41	⚡	tomasino looks at solderpunk
2020-06-13 16:02:44	solderpunk	Coming!  I swear!
2020-06-13 16:02:46	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-13 16:03:30	solderpunk	One week until the first anniversary of Gemini, btw, if anybody wants to stock up on booze for the party in advance :p
2020-06-13 16:03:54	lukee	Did anyone say party?!
2020-06-13 16:04:07	lukee	Should totally do that
2020-06-13 16:04:35	@tomasino	it started in this thread: https://mastodon.sdf.org/web/statuses/104333833098927140
2020-06-13 16:05:01	@tomasino	ooh, sounds like perfect time for a spec freeze
2020-06-13 16:05:23	solderpunk	Good point!
2020-06-13 16:05:45	@tomasino	i'm trying to find the right lady
2020-06-13 16:05:55	@tomasino	she's not in that thread directly but was talking to one of the other 2 people in the thread
2020-06-13 16:06:04	@tomasino	it was easier on my phone in bed clicking around
2020-06-13 16:06:12	@tomasino	they weren't hashtagging
2020-06-13 16:06:13	makeworld	I emailed Natalie about updating the GUS code, with luck she will
2020-06-13 16:06:22	@tomasino	GUS is really cool
2020-06-13 16:06:27	makeworld	She told me a while ago that she forgets to keep it updated haha
2020-06-13 16:06:29	lukee	@tomasino: thanks - seems like the alt text is the one most wanted
2020-06-13 16:06:33	makeworld	But I definitely want to hack on it
2020-06-13 16:06:42	lukee	oh ok
2020-06-13 16:06:49	@tomasino	but yes, it is
2020-06-13 16:06:57	solderpunk	GUS is better than any of us deserve.
2020-06-13 16:07:01	@tomasino	with that in place gemtext is 100% accessible
2020-06-13 16:07:16	lukee	No one has tried to SEO on GUS yet anyway :)
2020-06-13 16:07:29	@tomasino	naughty lukee
2020-06-13 16:07:47	solderpunk	I really think not making use of the link graph for GUS ranking was the right decision.
2020-06-13 16:07:55	solderpunk	It totally disincentivises link spamming.
2020-06-13 16:08:02	makeworld	How does it rank, actually?
2020-06-13 16:08:06	@tomasino	magic
2020-06-13 16:08:24	makeworld	Well because she hasn't pushed the code, yeah
2020-06-13 16:08:25	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-13 16:08:48	@tomasino	doesn't she go by Pendragon?
2020-06-13 16:09:02	@tomasino	totally a sorceress 
2020-06-13 16:09:02	lukee	No, but someone could still dictionary bomb GUS with a million pages
2020-06-13 16:09:12	makeworld	I mean natpen is her handle, that's just her last name I think
2020-06-13 16:09:27	@tomasino	ahha
2020-06-13 16:09:34	@tomasino	what an awesome last name
2020-06-13 16:09:36	lukee	but we're still at the stage they could be manually removed as a bad actor
2020-06-13 16:09:37	@tomasino	not much to live up to there
2020-06-13 16:09:38	makeworld	I know right
2020-06-13 16:09:50	makeworld	First thing I thought haha
2020-06-13 16:10:29	solderpunk	It uses TF-IDF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tf%E2%80%93idf
2020-06-13 16:10:41	solderpunk	As far as I know.
2020-06-13 16:11:06	@tomasino	oh, that's smart
2020-06-13 16:12:01	makeworld	Hmm very cool
2020-06-13 16:12:07	makeworld	Never heard of that, I'll read
2020-06-13 16:12:40	solderpunk	It's a pretty standard tool in the information retrieval world.
2020-06-13 16:12:53	@tomasino	xq: i just ran into a feature request in kristall! "ctrl-f"
2020-06-13 16:13:01	lukee	It generally shows up the right thing
2020-06-13 16:13:18	@tomasino	i searched superman and my essays rightfully came up first
2020-06-13 16:13:20	solderpunk	Big yes to ctrl-F.
2020-06-13 16:13:32	solderpunk	Actually, that reminds me.
2020-06-13 16:13:36	lukee	xq: I already have it in GemiNaut (well the rendering front end does it for free)
2020-06-13 16:13:45	@tomasino	awesome
2020-06-13 16:14:03	@tomasino	i'm mostly using 4 clients: av98 & bollux on my tildes, and castor & kristall on my local
2020-06-13 16:14:18	@tomasino	i need to build one of teh android ones
2020-06-13 16:14:19	~tiwesdaeg	how about alt+<== so my mouse button works to go back
2020-06-13 16:14:24	@tomasino	i don't like using the proxies
2020-06-13 16:14:26	makeworld	I tend to just stick with Bombadillo because it's easy to hop into the terminal
2020-06-13 16:14:33	solderpunk	Some way to specify a number of characters to wrap up, and centering the text, would make Kristall much nicer to use on wide monitors.
2020-06-13 16:14:39	makeworld	But Kristall is nice, I should use it more
2020-06-13 16:14:47	solderpunk	I know you can set a margin in the preferenes, but it adds space at the *top*, as well.
2020-06-13 16:14:54	makeworld	Mostly I'm just happy with how well Gemini lends itself to terminal usage
2020-06-13 16:15:11	makeworld	tomasino: Share the binary if you build it?
2020-06-13 16:15:26	@tomasino	kristall?
2020-06-13 16:16:04	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QIE.bin
2020-06-13 16:16:06	@tomasino	there you go
2020-06-13 16:16:13	@tomasino	rename it to kristall
2020-06-13 16:16:22	makeworld	I meant deedum
2020-06-13 16:16:28	makeworld	Android clients
2020-06-13 16:16:30	@tomasino	oooooooh
2020-06-13 16:16:31	@tomasino	yes yes
2020-06-13 16:16:38	@tomasino	okay, lemme give it a try
2020-06-13 16:16:43	@tomasino	crap, anyone have the link handy
2020-06-13 16:16:47	makeworld	I have a Waweic binary somewhere if anyone wants it, but development seesm to have stopped
2020-06-13 16:16:50	makeworld	https://github.com/snoe/deedum
2020-06-13 16:17:03	@tomasino	grazie
2020-06-13 16:18:20	solderpunk	Last I spoke to the author of Waweic, they had put it on the back burner because they were studying for some upcoming exams.
2020-06-13 16:18:25	makeworld	I think I'll try myself too
2020-06-13 16:18:28	makeworld	Ah fair enough
2020-06-13 16:18:30	solderpunk	But they said that were interested in picking it back up afterwards.
2020-06-13 16:18:33	makeworld	Glad to hear it's still in their mind
2020-06-13 16:18:51	solderpunk	I asked if they would be interested in putting it on F-Droid one day, and they said they definitely wanted to.
2020-06-13 16:18:55	solderpunk	So, hopefully that comes to pass.
2020-06-13 16:19:06	⚡	tomasino installs flutter
2020-06-13 16:19:12	solderpunk	But I guess we'll see.
2020-06-13 16:19:14	makeworld	Haha same here
2020-06-13 16:20:37	makeworld	Hmm nope, I'm gonna have to update everything first
2020-06-13 16:20:41	makeworld	Go Arch Linux
2020-06-13 16:21:09	makeworld	Might just wait for your binary...
2020-06-13 16:21:48	@tomasino	ahh, i guess i need to install java
2020-06-13 16:21:49	@tomasino	crap
2020-06-13 16:22:03	makeworld	Uh oh
2020-06-13 16:22:09	makeworld	Makes sense though
2020-06-13 16:22:50	@tomasino	yeah, i hate android dev
2020-06-13 16:22:51	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-13 16:23:05	@tomasino	almost as much as i hate ios dev
2020-06-13 16:23:12	makeworld	Almost
2020-06-13 16:23:55	⚡	makeworld afk, watch my computer for me thanks
2020-06-13 16:26:55	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 16:27:23	⚡	tomasino builds....
2020-06-13 16:30:22		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 16:30:33	julienxx_	solderpunk: hi! I'm trying stuff with molly brown, am I correct that the only way to use input or redirects is by adding cgi scripts?
2020-06-13 16:33:41	@tomasino	omg, i really, really hate android dev
2020-06-13 16:34:22	ℹ 	julienxx_ is now known as julienxx
2020-06-13 16:34:23	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-13 16:34:28		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 16:34:31	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 16:45:51	solderpunk	julienxx: That's the only way to get input, but you can specify redirects in the config file.
2020-06-13 16:46:06	@julienxx	Added a Plan 9 man page reader because everyone can’t wait to read those right? gemini://9til.de
2020-06-13 16:46:44	@julienxx	Plan 9 has python 2.5 this is rough
2020-06-13 16:46:54	solderpunk	It works, I just fetched the man page for acme!
2020-06-13 16:47:00	solderpunk	2.5, yikes!
2020-06-13 16:49:57	@julienxx	The ‘with’ syntax is not there and many other things I take for granted, I don’t know much python but this was quite an exercise!
2020-06-13 16:52:36	solderpunk	I might actually be fine, I am a pretty conservative coder and don't adopt new bells and whistles lightly.
2020-06-13 16:53:03	solderpunk	When I first looked at the Jetforce code I was like "Wow, what language is this?  It's a lot like Python but has all kinds of crazy extra syntax I've never seen before!"
2020-06-13 16:55:50	solderpunk	Turns out recent 3.x releases have some kind of type hinting stuff.
2020-06-13 17:05:34	@tomasino	got it to bloody build
2020-06-13 17:05:39	@tomasino	sweet jesus
2020-06-13 17:06:13	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QId.apk -- deedum-debug.apk
2020-06-13 17:06:32	@tomasino	you'll need to get it onto your device and be in developer mode to install it and disable all the play store warnings
2020-06-13 17:06:42	@tomasino	it's... kinda slow
2020-06-13 17:06:44	@tomasino	but it works
2020-06-13 17:08:36	@tomasino	hrm
2020-06-13 17:08:45	@tomasino	maybe it's just tilde.black that's really slow
2020-06-13 17:09:06	@tomasino	eh, cosmic is too
2020-06-13 17:09:08	@tomasino	hrm
2020-06-13 17:23:10	makeworld	Looks like I can't just install it directly on my device
2020-06-13 17:23:17	makeworld	I wonder why
2020-06-13 17:25:33	@tomasino	::shrug::
2020-06-13 17:25:45	makeworld	I'll try using my laptop
2020-06-13 17:25:59	makeworld	Thanks btw
2020-06-13 17:26:07	@tomasino	hope it works out for ya!
2020-06-13 18:12:28		bard has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-13 18:13:12	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 19:10:41	ℹ 	tiwesdaeg is now known as tiwesdaeg-testing
2020-06-13 19:11:03	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 19:20:56		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 19:23:48	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 19:33:12	@tomasino	solderpunk: 5.4.1 Heading lines, last line has an extra linebreak
2020-06-13 19:33:53	@tomasino	i like the changes otherwise
2020-06-13 20:05:36	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 20:05:48	kensanata	🚀🚀
2020-06-13 20:06:18	@tomasino	pew pew
2020-06-13 20:06:44	kensanata	Sadly, the Gemini spec has a strange problem: There's always a line break between MIME types and charset parameter so somebody like me can't tell whether there's a space after the semicolon or not.
2020-06-13 20:08:57	kensanata	Also, too bad there's no example showing both a charset and a lang parameter.
2020-06-13 20:09:19	kensanata	Actually, the lang parameter examples show a space after the semicolon.
2020-06-13 20:13:04	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-06-13 20:23:30		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 20:23:33	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 20:26:14	kensanata	How one would set up a Gemini wiki using Oddmuse: https://oddmuse.org/wiki/Gemini_Wiki
2020-06-13 20:26:41	kensanata	(This only covers a local installation, for now.)
2020-06-13 20:32:45	wgreenhouse	kensanata: awesome! :) btw you could also use "gnutls-cli --tofu" in that example
2020-06-13 20:39:24	kensanata	wgreenhouse: I tried it and it didn't work. I suspect that's because --insecure also makes sure the common name matches.
2020-06-13 20:39:47	kensanata	Perhaps if I had used localhost instead of gemini as the cn? I don't know.
2020-06-13 20:40:24	wgreenhouse	Hmm.
2020-06-13 20:42:11	wgreenhouse	I'll try later :) I'm going to try oddmuse-gemini-over-.onion, just to be extra crazypants
2020-06-13 20:43:10	kensanata	Oh wow.
2020-06-13 20:44:13	@tomasino	do we have gemini over tor working anywhere?
2020-06-13 20:44:30	@tomasino	i mean, i have an onion address on tilde.black
2020-06-13 20:44:34	kensanata	tomasino: didn't you provide a super simple solutino for running gopher over tor?
2020-06-13 20:44:39	kensanata	Some sort of wrapper?
2020-06-13 20:44:44	@tomasino	sort of
2020-06-13 20:44:58	@tomasino	i just run a second gopherd on port 71 and do some port trickery with tor
2020-06-13 20:45:07	@tomasino	it's really as easy as that
2020-06-13 20:45:28	@tomasino	ports 70 and 71 both point to my internal server's 71 which runs a gopherd where the hostname is the onion address
2020-06-13 20:45:48	@tomasino	initial requests to port 70 find it and relative links point to 71, so that works too
2020-06-13 20:46:01	@tomasino	gemini shouldn't need any of that, though
2020-06-13 20:46:08	@tomasino	i should just be able to point at it, i think
2020-06-13 20:46:37	@tomasino	tilde.black's onion address is black6kfjetfuzaeozz7fs53whh7xtd4e27telrf5fg5kgdt5ah5plad.onion
2020-06-13 20:46:46	@tomasino	i have tor running and accepting 1965 
2020-06-13 20:46:58	@tomasino	i haven't gotten it to show up in any clients though
2020-06-13 20:47:46	@tomasino	it's just hanging in av98 right now when run through torify
2020-06-13 20:48:08	kensanata	Hm. I'm wondering something else: I have a machine that has multiple names. Can I run two different Gemini servers on the same port, each listening for a different hostname? I don't think so, right? I can only have one Gemini server listening on the port and it does the virtual host thing by looking at the URI.
2020-06-13 20:48:29	@tomasino	currently, yes
2020-06-13 20:48:53	@tomasino	but since the request has the name it it you could split it before it gets to your server if you put something in the way, i think... the TLS bit makes it all harder
2020-06-13 20:49:03	@tomasino	i'm not sure where that fits in
2020-06-13 20:49:40	@tomasino	bollux: Permanent error [53]: This server does not allow proxy requests
2020-06-13 20:49:47	@tomasino	when i tried to torify to tilde.black's onion
2020-06-13 20:50:14	@tomasino	maybe it's just that jetforce doesn't know the onion name?
2020-06-13 20:52:04	kensanata	tomasino: Yeah, I guess you need to connect to the onion address and in your request you still need to send the normal URI, so either the server needs to know how to handle both, or the client needs to know how to construct those requests.
2020-06-13 20:52:31	kensanata	I hadn't considered that sending the full URI would make torifying the site a bit harder.
2020-06-13 21:22:10	jan	is there a gemini server that only accepts TLS 1.3?
2020-06-13 21:22:24	jan	i need to test something here...
2020-06-13 21:22:49	solderpunk	Good question, I don't know.
2020-06-13 21:23:23	kensanata	How would I force gnutls-cli to use 1.2?
2020-06-13 21:23:41	jan	and: how do clients handle certificate validation for self-signed certificates?
2020-06-13 21:23:56	kensanata	tofu?
2020-06-13 21:24:39	@tomasino	would GUS know that?
2020-06-13 21:24:55	kensanata	That is, save something in a local file. gnutls-cli for example uses .gnutls/known_hosts and saves a long line for each certificate.
2020-06-13 21:24:57	jan	right now, ncgopher accepts invalid server certificates, where invalid means self-signed. but invalid in this case means also expired certificates, so i check the expiration date after the connection has been established
2020-06-13 21:25:13	kensanata	jan: makes sense
2020-06-13 21:26:35	jan	hm. the more i keep digging into rust tls libraries, the more edge cases arise.
2020-06-13 21:27:24	jan	i should probably rewrite my code to use rusttls instead of native-tls. better support for tls 1.3
2020-06-13 21:27:32	jan	bummer.
2020-06-13 21:37:03	kensanata	OK, I have a second Gemini wiki up and running on communitywiki.org:1966. There is no web interface. 😱
2020-06-13 21:37:53	kensanata	That is to say, it isn't based on https://communitywiki.org/
2020-06-13 21:39:34	thombles	dozens: :)
2020-06-13 21:41:00	thombles	rustls's 1.3 support goes nicely and it's pretty flexible with certs, I've been down that path before. Not having to build openssl-sys (y)(y)
2020-06-13 21:43:43	jan	thombles: sounds good.
2020-06-13 21:44:19	jan	rusttls is based on ring, which also would allow ad-hoc creation of client certificates (afaik)
2020-06-13 21:45:46	solderpunk	'night, everybody!
2020-06-13 21:46:10		solderpunk has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 21:50:34	@tomasino	night!
2020-06-13 21:52:09	styan	tomasino: I mentioned the onion address thing before.  There is a setting in Jetforce that you can add to the startup script that will make it ignore the hostname but, unless something changed, I did not see a way to specify alias names.
2020-06-13 21:53:55	styan	geminawk(1) supports proxying though, so ``NC='nc -X5 -xlocalhost:9050' geminawk -h black....onion gemini://tilde.black/'' works. :-)
2020-06-13 21:55:21	makeworld	I'm hoping solderpunk will formalize a Gemini write protocol
2020-06-13 21:55:30	makeworld	It'd be nice to have something down for everyone to follow
2020-06-13 22:03:35	kensanata	I don't know whether solderpunk is interested in Gemini extensions...
2020-06-13 22:03:43	kensanata	I suspect he might not be!
2020-06-13 22:03:49	jan	+1
2020-06-13 22:05:01	thombles	I think this titan thing is rapidly going to get out of hand - I could have missed it but so far I've seen no mention of directory listing, adding/removing directories, or renaming resources
2020-06-13 22:05:35	thombles	Unless you can have enough primitives to build something like VS Code's remote development file tree, I can't see to practically author/maintain a gemini site
2020-06-13 22:05:46	thombles	how* to
2020-06-13 22:05:47	kensanata	Hm?
2020-06-13 22:05:58	kensanata	I run a wiki...
2020-06-13 22:06:21	kensanata	That's basically a flat soup of files, if you want to visualize it like that.
2020-06-13 22:07:38	thombles	if you wanted to list all pages available for editing on the wiki would that be via a server-generated directory list, or perhaps a CGI program?
2020-06-13 22:08:33	thombles	I'm assuming that even basic users with a handful of pages will have an index.gmi that makes it hard to see what pages even exist
2020-06-13 22:17:01	@tomasino	i'm assuming it would be "edit resource at XXX URL" and "upload/replace resource at XXX URL"
2020-06-13 22:23:21	kensanata	Yeah.
2020-06-13 22:23:46	kensanata	thombles: take a look at gemini://alexschroeder.ch to see what a wiki would look like.
2020-06-13 22:24:49	kensanata	So basically there aren't any "files" necessarily. The server simply serves stuff. Like on the web. Clients don't need to know whether resources are actually files on the server or not.
2020-06-13 22:25:34	thombles	Right I see, this presupposes a CMS of some description
2020-06-13 22:26:11	thombles	and if you need to do anything more specialised than put, you can interact with a CGI page to tell it to do so
2020-06-13 22:26:48	kensanata	Yeah, the wiki is a CMS of sorts, exactly.
2020-06-13 22:27:20	thombles	I perhaps got the wrong impression from the commentary around whether this could be a replacement for people having to learn (s)ftp
2020-06-13 22:27:37	thombles	I'm not sure we're all on the same page
2020-06-13 22:30:32	kensanata	Ah. Well... that wouldn't be a usecase I had in mind with my Gemini wiki, but sure, somebody could write a different kind of server that did all sorts of stuff.
2020-06-13 22:31:23	kensanata	And now it's time for bed. My wife just fell asleep on the sofa.
2020-06-13 22:31:38	kensanata	I bet she's going to claim she was just "thinking about the book".
2020-06-13 22:32:08		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-13 23:06:59	xq	<tomasino> xq: i just ran into a feature request in kristall! "ctrl-f"
2020-06-13 23:07:07	xq	yes, that's on the list. it bugs me as well
2020-06-13 23:43:00		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 23:43:02	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 23:46:37		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 23:46:38	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 23:50:34		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 23:50:55	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-13 23:53:09		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-13 23:53:26	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 00:25:12		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 00:28:20	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 00:32:15		tiwesdaeg-testing has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 00:32:35	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 00:32:35	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-06-14 01:52:05		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-14 01:52:06	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 06:09:31	thombles	Hmm I was kicked off the list again... and coincidentally it was somebody else who set up their email hosting using migadu, who for whatever reason is encouraging their customers to use p=reject
2020-06-14 06:12:02	thombles	Having already inadvertently chased away Alex S, before I do it again - does anyone else get their gemini ML membership disabled due to bounces? Or is my provider unique in actually enforcing the DMARC policy?
2020-06-14 06:27:59		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-14 06:29:51	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 06:29:53	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-14 08:14:43	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 11:02:40		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-14 11:42:45	ℹ 	jan6 is now known as DraugurLord
2020-06-14 12:02:01	ℹ 	DraugurLord is now known as _
2020-06-14 12:02:19	ℹ 	_ is now known as jan6
2020-06-14 12:17:47	mhj	Heyo gemasaurus rex's, what's new in y'alls giant gemholes?
2020-06-14 12:19:23	xq	hello people
2020-06-14 12:22:43	mhj	Hmm, might upload scripts I made for Void Linux, even though I use Manjaro now.
2020-06-14 12:23:24	xq	what's the script for?
2020-06-14 12:24:55	mhj	It's to make using service manager that Void uses easier. Void uses something called sv, so I made a script called svctl so I don't have to constantly do symbolic linking to get services up and running, or to shut them down
2020-06-14 12:25:31	xq	:D
2020-06-14 12:25:42	xq	sounds kinda complicated
2020-06-14 12:26:02	mhj	Eh, Void itself is easy to understand
2020-06-14 12:26:22	mhj	I made it harder than it understand than it actually is lol
2020-06-14 12:27:06	xq	probably :D
2020-06-14 12:27:14	mhj	https://docs.voidlinux.org/config/services/index.html
2020-06-14 12:27:37	mhj	Er, harder to understand
2020-06-14 12:27:59	mhj	Void doesn't use systemd, it uses runit
2020-06-14 12:28:19	mhj	It boots ultra fast because of it
2020-06-14 12:28:31	xq	hmm
2020-06-14 12:28:33	xq	sounds appealing
2020-06-14 12:30:09	mhj	The only reason I stopped using it was due to lack of software in it. I felt like I wanted some stuff Arch Linux's AUR.
2020-06-14 12:30:30	mhj	Er, some stuff in the AUR
2020-06-14 12:30:41	mhj	Mostly games lol
2020-06-14 12:30:53	xq	heh
2020-06-14 12:31:03	xq	was going to ask if switching from Arch is worth it
2020-06-14 12:31:16	xq	but i'm heavily using AUR stuff
2020-06-14 12:32:01	mhj	Yeah, Void doesn't have anything like the AUR, so yeah
2020-06-14 12:32:46	ironzorg	https://drewdevault.com/tls/security/oauth/2020/06/12/Can-we-talk-about-client-side-certs.html related
2020-06-14 12:37:12	xq	the TODO list for Kristall is piling up :D
2020-06-14 12:43:47		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 12:51:26	~tiwesdaeg	when are we getting kristall in the AUR?
2020-06-14 12:52:13	⚡	xq has to look up how to do this…
2020-06-14 12:56:17	~tiwesdaeg	it looks like it's handled through git
2020-06-14 12:56:52	xq	yeah… probably going to check this out after the 0.3 version
2020-06-14 12:57:01	xq	when all the spec-required stuff is implemented
2020-06-14 12:58:27	~tiwesdaeg	just pulled kristall, smallest amount of changes ever
2020-06-14 12:59:05	xq	haha, yeah
2020-06-14 12:59:09	xq	wasn't busy the last two days
2020-06-14 12:59:14	~tiwesdaeg	one note, I've found the icon isn't the most visible with dark themes
2020-06-14 12:59:21	xq	yep, i know
2020-06-14 12:59:38	xq	i need to check out how to switch out icons or just the icon color
2020-06-14 12:59:47	~tiwesdaeg	I had actually made a lighter one for myself before I started using the make install method
2020-06-14 12:59:51	xq	i don't like having two sets of the same files differing only in a single color value
2020-06-14 13:00:10	xq	have a talk in roughly one hour, a bit nervous atm :D
2020-06-14 13:00:36	~tiwesdaeg	good luck with whatever is causing the nervousness
2020-06-14 13:00:44	xq	if any of you wanna see me talking about how to write assemblers and building computers, join us at https://zig.show/ (twitch)
2020-06-14 13:00:45	~tiwesdaeg	oh I get it
2020-06-14 13:00:47	~tiwesdaeg	brain is slow
2020-06-14 13:00:49	~tiwesdaeg	what kind of talk?
2020-06-14 13:01:16	xq	i'm in the process of building/developing my own computer from "scratch" (as in: use an FPGA and breadboards)
2020-06-14 13:01:53	~tiwesdaeg	a theoretical/software computer or are you looking at actual manufacture?
2020-06-14 13:02:42	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't had any caffeine yet and my brain is chugging along at a snails pace
2020-06-14 13:04:30	⚡	xq looks at the breadboard to his side and a whole bunch of wires
2020-06-14 13:04:35	xq	seems pretty physical to me *grin*
2020-06-14 13:05:03	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, see it takes me until after I have responded to fully parse what I just read
2020-06-14 13:05:41	xq	*grins*
2020-06-14 13:05:44	⚡	tiwesdaeg installs zig
2020-06-14 13:05:48	xq	what time is it at your place?
2020-06-14 13:05:58	~tiwesdaeg	08:05
2020-06-14 13:06:04	xq	oh :D
2020-06-14 13:06:12	~tiwesdaeg	no hot water in the electric kettle
2020-06-14 13:06:14	xq	get the latest master tar ball from here: https://ziglang.org/download/
2020-06-14 13:06:25	mhj	Oh you're on twitch?
2020-06-14 13:06:29	mhj	Awesome
2020-06-14 13:06:44	xq	i don't stream myself very often, but today i'm joining in on Zig Showtime
2020-06-14 13:06:50	mhj	Sweet :D
2020-06-14 13:07:00	xq	last stream was in march, making some life shader coding
2020-06-14 13:07:11	mhj	I do lots of streaming, I plan to do some stuff about using Linux/Unix
2020-06-14 13:07:17	~tiwesdaeg	arch has 0.6.0-1
2020-06-14 13:07:34	xq	yeha 0.6.0 is quite outdated already, zig isn't stable software atm :D
2020-06-14 13:07:36	mhj	But today I play Mega Man V(Gameboy Mega Man) and Ridge Racer Type 4
2020-06-14 13:07:41	~tiwesdaeg	hehe
2020-06-14 13:07:44	xq	sounds good
2020-06-14 13:07:50	⚡	tiwesdaeg uninstalls zig
2020-06-14 13:07:54	xq	*rofl*
2020-06-14 13:09:41	⚡	tiwesdaeg goes to put on a pot of tea
2020-06-14 13:17:26	~tiwesdaeg	xq: how do you normal setup you tarball folder?
2020-06-14 13:17:40	~tiwesdaeg	stick it somewhere and link to the binary?
2020-06-14 13:18:05	xq	yeah
2020-06-14 13:18:16	xq	i have ~/software/ for manually installed software
2020-06-14 13:21:53	~tiwesdaeg	I usually have ~/Projects/ folder
2020-06-14 13:22:15	~tiwesdaeg	but that is usually for stuff I am working on or downloaded software to build
2020-06-14 13:23:16	paper	~/.local/bin and ~/opt works for me
2020-06-14 13:25:49	xq	yeah i have ~/projects as well, but it's not the right place for precompiled software
2020-06-14 13:27:02	~tiwesdaeg	I'm guessing the zig binary should stay with the libs folder
2020-06-14 13:36:44	xq	yes
2020-06-14 13:44:18	`epochbot	:> anyone know of gophervr?
2020-06-14 13:45:03	`epochbot	I think I might convert my shell-script gemini client into a geminivr
2020-06-14 13:53:49	mhj	I've heard of gophervr, never used it tho
2020-06-14 14:04:42	⚡	tiwesdaeg tunes in to twitch
2020-06-14 14:31:53	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 14:33:28	@tomasino	played with it once or twice, but beyond it looking neat it just seemed to slow down my use
2020-06-14 14:38:30	dozens	always seemed a bit of a novelty to me
2020-06-14 15:07:17	@tomasino	futurama did an episode on VR interfaces if i recall
2020-06-14 15:07:39	@tomasino	the crew got stuck inside the virtual world and at one point they needed to go to another folder to get a file and had to literally hike to another mountain 
2020-06-14 15:07:50	@tomasino	they were like, "why is this better, again?"
2020-06-14 15:11:17	⚡	xq is back
2020-06-14 15:12:49	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I followed the first bit, but then became completely lost
2020-06-14 15:13:20	xq	why? too in-depth? too unfocused?
2020-06-14 15:13:36	ℹ 	notandinus is now known as totallynotandinus
2020-06-14 15:18:07	~tiwesdaeg	way outside my normal purview
2020-06-14 15:19:13	~tiwesdaeg	I've never really spent that time studying cpu architecture
2020-06-14 15:19:21	xq	yeah, true
2020-06-14 15:19:31	xq	it's not a talk for a highlevel coder :D
2020-06-14 15:19:31	~tiwesdaeg	great shot of the breadboard setup
2020-06-14 15:19:39	xq	thanks :D
2020-06-14 15:19:56	xq	but as said: i needed to learn a lot of stuff while doing the project
2020-06-14 15:19:57	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not even a very good highlevel coder ;P
2020-06-14 15:20:11	xq	yeah, definitly no entry-level talk :D
2020-06-14 15:20:39	⚡	tiwesdaeg is putting off going on a bike ride
2020-06-14 15:20:43	xq	have fun!
2020-06-14 15:20:48	xq	it's raining heavily here
2020-06-14 15:20:52	~tiwesdaeg	I know it'll be mroe fun once I'm out there, but I'm tired
2020-06-14 15:20:59	~tiwesdaeg	getting warm here
2020-06-14 15:21:27	~tiwesdaeg	currently only 27, but 100% humidity
2020-06-14 15:22:18	~tiwesdaeg	we hit about 33 yesterday, so I am guessing it will be similar today
2020-06-14 16:02:11		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-14 16:02:12	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 16:06:06	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 16:20:50	kensanata	Does anybody here know their way around DNS and IPv6 issues? When I use AV-98 to visit gemini://communitywiki.org:1966, it's fast. When I do the same via Elpher/Emacs, it's slow and I get a message saying: "Connection timed out.  Retrying with IPv4." As if the IPv6 setup somehow doesn't work. When visiting gemini://alexschroeder.ch I don't see this problem. Ideas?
2020-06-14 16:21:13		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 16:21:53	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 16:38:34	kensanata	I'm suspecting some sort of hickup that I ought to figure out using dig, but I have no idea what I'm looking for. It looks fine.
2020-06-14 16:39:59	@tomasino	ben groks it best
2020-06-14 16:40:18	@tomasino	I think he's off to the beach though
2020-06-14 16:40:25	kensanata	Hm... the log file for the one that works starts as follows:
2020-06-14 16:40:25	kensanata	Resolved [alexschroeder.ch]:1965 to [178.209.50.237]:1965, IPv4
2020-06-14 16:40:25	kensanata	Resolved [alexschroeder.ch]:1965 to [2a02:418:6a04:178:209:50:237:1]:1965, IPv6
2020-06-14 16:40:40	kensanata	The log file for the one that doesn't work for IPv6 starts with just one...
2020-06-14 16:40:52	kensanata	Resolved [communitywiki.org]:1966 to [178.209.50.237]:1966, IPv4
2020-06-14 16:41:14	@tomasino	1966?
2020-06-14 16:41:17	kensanata	GAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!
2020-06-14 16:41:20	kensanata	I found it
2020-06-14 16:41:30	kensanata	It's /etc/hosts!!
2020-06-14 16:41:36	@tomasino	Yay
2020-06-14 16:41:39	@ben	damn /etc/hosts
2020-06-14 16:41:46	kensanata	I have an IPv4 for all my hostnames, and just one of them with IPv6.
2020-06-14 16:41:54	@tomasino	Shame
2020-06-14 16:41:57	@ben	kensanata: gemini can do SNI
2020-06-14 16:41:58	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-14 16:42:01	@ben	no need to use an alternate port
2020-06-14 16:42:02	kensanata	Yes, I hate those sysadmins. Always tinkering with their /etc/hosts file.
2020-06-14 16:42:06	kensanata	What were they THINKING!?
2020-06-14 16:42:36	kensanata	ben: I run two Gemini servers. The real one on 1965 (for one hostname) and a toy one on 1966 (for another hostname).
2020-06-14 16:42:51	@ben	ahhh ok that's a reasonable excuse ;)
2020-06-14 16:43:03	@tomasino	I do need to look into that for tor more soon
2020-06-14 16:43:19	@tomasino	I'm almost out from under the work onslaught
2020-06-14 16:44:29	kensanata	Good for you! We had our first release on Saturday for a production system and apparently it worked, so I'm expecting the next two weeks to be smoother sailing.
2020-06-14 17:21:38	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 17:46:04		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-14 17:52:16	@tomasino	brilliant
2020-06-14 18:03:40		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 18:03:50	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 18:21:38	makeworld	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/001672.html
2020-06-14 18:21:58	makeworld	This seems like the simplest proposal for input from the guy himself
2020-06-14 18:29:02	makeworld	Konpeito still down :(
2020-06-14 18:31:46	@tomasino	i'll try to bug cat this week. maybe i can help him get it going again
2020-06-14 18:32:35	makeworld	Sounds good, that'd be nice
2020-06-14 18:52:23	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 18:58:19	dozens	is there a gemini user's guide to TLS somewhere? for example, I'd like to checkout astrobotany.mozz.us but don't know how to create a cert.
2020-06-14 18:59:45	xq	dozens: Use Kristall! #selfadvertisin
2020-06-14 19:00:02	xq	it has certificate creation built-in
2020-06-14 19:00:13	dozens	I would! haven't gotten it to compile on macos yet :(
2020-06-14 19:00:24	xq	oh!
2020-06-14 19:00:31	xq	tell me more, a friend of mine got it compiling
2020-06-14 19:00:45	dozens	hmm, lemme see if I took any notes
2020-06-14 19:01:56	kensanata	 openssl req -new -x509 -days 365 -nodes -out cert.pem -keyout key.pem
2020-06-14 19:02:17	kensanata	Answer the questions, or not. But do provide an answer to the last question, the Common Name.
2020-06-14 19:03:49	kensanata	Then start: av98 --tls-cert cert.pem --tls-key key.pem gemini://astrobotany.mozz.us/
2020-06-14 19:03:56	kensanata	This uses the two files you just created.
2020-06-14 19:04:22	dozens	xq: shoot, no I deleted them. I remember having to manually link my openssl headers because of homebrew shenanagins, but then I got another error and I don't remember what it was. If I try again, I'll be sure to let you know
2020-06-14 19:04:43	xq	please! :)
2020-06-14 19:05:36	dozens	kensanata: super helpful, thanks!
2020-06-14 19:06:36		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 19:11:18	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 19:18:21	companion_cube	I wonder why content based protocols aren't considered simpler than http like stuff
2020-06-14 19:18:36	companion_cube	(trying to read through the big threads about put/delete methods)
2020-06-14 19:31:46		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 19:38:05	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 19:50:44		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 19:59:43	xq	btw guys
2020-06-14 19:59:51	xq	i'd implement TOFU for HTTPS, too
2020-06-14 19:59:55	xq	what do you think about this?
2020-06-14 20:02:39	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-06-14 20:03:10	~tiwesdaeg	I don't really see using it for https
2020-06-14 20:04:59	xq	it's just an architecture thing of Kristall internally
2020-06-14 20:05:09	xq	i'd like to wire the certificate handling for all SSL into the same path
2020-06-14 20:05:19	xq	right now it uses Qts internal SSL handling
2020-06-14 20:07:04		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 20:29:53	kensanata	xq: It really depends on whether you think certification authorities are worth anything.
2020-06-14 20:30:37	kensanata	xq: My personal take is that none of them are worth it. On a personal level, most people use Let's Encrypt or their hosting provider's services, and thus there is effectively no value.
2020-06-14 20:30:49	kensanata	xq: In other words, TOFU good!
2020-06-14 20:31:09	kensanata	As for my own Gemini wiki dreams... gemini://communitywiki.org:1966/Use_the_Command_Line
2020-06-14 20:33:59	@tomasino	hrm, i'm getting odd character rendering from shufei's gemlog in kristall
2020-06-14 20:34:06	@tomasino	anyone else seeing issues there?
2020-06-14 20:35:19	kensanata	URL?
2020-06-14 20:35:52	@tomasino	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space:1965/users/shufei/phlog/20200612-Reply-Demifiend-Games.gmi
2020-06-14 20:35:54	xq	tomasino: i don't do correct encoding handling atm
2020-06-14 20:36:00	@tomasino	ahh
2020-06-14 20:36:10	@tomasino	okay, cool cool
2020-06-14 20:36:22	xq	link looks okay here though
2020-06-14 20:36:23	@tomasino	i was flipping through a bunch of fonts thinking it was me
2020-06-14 20:36:43	@tomasino	Computers with locked down OS���s
2020-06-14 20:37:00	@tomasino	no? not seeing that?
2020-06-14 20:37:29	xq	it's your font
2020-06-14 20:37:39	xq	OS’s indeed
2020-06-14 20:37:50	@tomasino	crap, i tried 12 different fonts, same result
2020-06-14 20:38:11	@tomasino	like... Arial should show it fine. if not Arial Unicode certainly should. Both showing what you see, though
2020-06-14 20:38:24	@tomasino	what are you using?
2020-06-14 20:38:38	@tomasino	i'm using Open Sans right now
2020-06-14 20:39:05	@tomasino	oh
2020-06-14 20:39:06	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-14 20:39:06	@tomasino	no
2020-06-14 20:39:14	@tomasino	experimental text highlights
2020-06-14 20:39:20	@tomasino	i turned it off and we're good
2020-06-14 20:39:40	⚡	tomasino dances
2020-06-14 20:40:14	xq	oh yeah
2020-06-14 20:40:22	xq	there's a reason they're experimental :D
2020-06-14 20:40:25	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-14 20:40:35	@tomasino	i wonder if that's why yeti's thing was blowing up
2020-06-14 20:40:38	@tomasino	lemme check
2020-06-14 20:42:13	@tomasino	yep!
2020-06-14 20:42:15	@tomasino	tha was it
2020-06-14 20:42:24	@tomasino	gemini://envs.net/~yeti/
2020-06-14 20:43:29	xq	oh wow
2020-06-14 20:43:34	xq	that's a nice artwork
2020-06-14 20:51:24	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 20:57:35	kensanata	I wonder what screen readers make of this.
2020-06-14 20:58:27	kensanata	Letter 1 D 5 0 8 Letter 1 D 5 2 6 Letter ... UGH
2020-06-14 20:58:38		lickthecat has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-14 20:59:14	kensanata	rhapsode disabuses me of all unicode joy
2020-06-14 21:01:08	xq	we need ```art
2020-06-14 21:01:23	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 21:05:50	kensanata	I'm not sure – perhaps rhapsode did that, but the Fraktur Unicode characters were simply unreadable to it.
2020-06-14 21:07:01	kensanata	I mean, I can read ℑ𝔱'𝔰 𝔪𝔢, 𝖄𝖊𝖙𝖎, 𝔞𝔫𝔡 ℑ 𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔩𝔩 𝔡𝔬𝔫'𝔱 𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔢! – by this Emacs I'm on only displays the first of these letters correctly: ℌ𝔢𝔩𝔩𝔬 so I'm not surprised rhapsode doesn't know how to pronounce all of this.
2020-06-14 21:08:02	kensanata	Anyway, time for bed!
2020-06-14 21:10:09		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-14 21:11:38		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 21:18:57	@tomasino	We got ```art, xq
2020-06-14 21:19:04	@tomasino	It was in the last update
2020-06-14 21:19:25	xq	oh, neat!
2020-06-14 21:20:01	@tomasino	Technically we got ``` alt text
2020-06-14 21:20:34	@tomasino	And a directive to do as thou wilt to figure out extras like syntax highlighting
2020-06-14 21:53:13	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 21:56:44	xq	okay...
2020-06-14 21:56:53	xq	seems like the Kristall Mobile Edition has to wait
2020-06-14 22:05:25	makeworld	Why's that?
2020-06-14 22:06:00	xq	because Android hates me and I hate Android
2020-06-14 22:06:07	xq	tried to set up at least a basic android env
2020-06-14 22:06:31	xq	result: "you are not allowed to install apps via USB because we are chinese and you are a filthy peasant. create an account or vanish"
2020-06-14 22:06:56		lickthecat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-14 22:06:56	xq	so i would need to install every APK i've built *by hand*
2020-06-14 22:07:19	xq	and i can't get a qt build done
2020-06-14 22:07:25	xq	because it seems like the android sdk hates my OS
2020-06-14 22:07:32	xq	and just crashes with a java exception in the sdkmanager
2020-06-14 22:11:11	makeworld	Haha that was the exact error message huh
2020-06-14 22:11:17	xq	:D
2020-06-14 22:11:19	xq	kinda
2020-06-14 22:11:19	makeworld	But yeah that sucks, sorry
2020-06-14 22:11:30	@tomasino	i also hate android dev
2020-06-14 22:11:32	makeworld	Mobile bad
2020-06-14 22:11:34	@tomasino	sorry, dude
2020-06-14 22:11:39	xq	you click "enable USB debugging" and a login screen appears with the message "you need to be registered as a xiami developer to enable USB debugging"
2020-06-14 22:11:47	makeworld	oof
2020-06-14 22:11:56	xq	i'm really tempted to get a pine phone
2020-06-14 22:17:55		mhj has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 22:37:08		numilani_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-14 22:38:13	▬▬▶	numilani_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-14 23:09:21	makeworld	xq: I think I found an issue with your TOFU system
2020-06-14 23:09:25	makeworld	Sent an email on the ml
2020-06-14 23:10:57	makeworld	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/001682.html
2020-06-14 23:49:31	ℹ 	totallynotandinus is now known as notandinus
2020-06-15 00:39:55	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 00:40:22	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/vintagetv/superman-03.gmi
2020-06-15 00:40:24	@tomasino	part 3
2020-06-15 00:46:52	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 00:53:21	@tomasino	vulpes hides ``` blocks with alt text, eh?
2020-06-15 00:58:50	dozens	xq: just tried installing kristall on macos again. did a `brew install qt` and exported all the env vars I needed. qmake worked fine, but had to add -I/usr/local/lib to the includes in the makefile so it would fine my openssl headers
2020-06-15 00:58:57	dozens	anyway, build failed with `ld: library not found for -lcrypto`
2020-06-15 00:59:07	dozens	clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
2020-06-15 00:59:58	dozens	is that a crypto pacage that homebrew qt wasn't compiled with?
2020-06-15 01:01:00	dozens	or maybe an openssl thing
2020-06-15 01:04:20	dozens	i DID get it installed on my arm64 laptop though! it's really fun to use!
2020-06-15 01:05:30	styan	dozens: `libcrypto' is OpenSSL.
2020-06-15 01:11:30	dozens	for some reason I didn't know that pine phone wasn't Android lol
2020-06-15 01:12:31	dozens	thanks styan. I don't know why it's having such a hard time with my openssl :(
2020-06-15 01:58:55		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-15 02:02:06	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 02:13:09	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 03:07:41		lickthecat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 03:31:20	login	xq: that's amazing... they locked it so it can't get abused by police
2020-06-15 05:24:49	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 05:56:46		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 06:01:18	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 06:26:26		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-15 06:27:23	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 06:27:24	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-15 06:46:46		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 07:08:57	xq	login: not sure ;)
2020-06-15 07:09:25	xq	Xiamo is a chinese company, i think it's more likely that they wanted you to prevent sideloading apps by that
2020-06-15 07:39:35	login	it's probably that
2020-06-15 07:40:02	login	xiaomi also tracks everybody and is unscrupulous with customer data
2020-06-15 07:40:56	xq	yeah
2020-06-15 07:41:04	xq	the phone is already rootet and a lot of stuff was changed
2020-06-15 07:42:35	xq	trying the android build now on windows in a fully-automated setup world…
2020-06-15 07:42:38	xq	VMs to the rescue
2020-06-15 08:10:00	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 08:20:14	kensanata	gemini://alexschroeder.ch/2020-06-14_Using_Titan_to_edit_a_Gemini_wiki has a shell script with which to dabble, if you're interested. The wiki it would edit can be read by all Gemini clients at gemini://communitywiki.org:1966
2020-06-15 09:28:46		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 11:07:04	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 11:07:57	dkibi	am I the only one feeling unconfortable using a protocol named after an intercontinental ballistic missile?
2020-06-15 11:10:55	tadzik	possibly. Humanity has been around for a while, we may run out of words that don't have a negative association in some culture
2020-06-15 11:17:11	@tomasino	A modified ICBM with a mission of exploration instead of war? I'm 100% on board with that
2020-06-15 11:19:08	dkibi	tadzik: well this negative connotation is not an accidental coincidence
2020-06-15 11:21:36	tadzik	now that I looked it up, you're right. Then again, I'd argue that it's an implementation detail in the grand scheme of things. I'm on board with tomasino here
2020-06-15 11:21:42	dkibi	tomasino: that's a valid perspective, I still can't shake the discomfort
2020-06-15 11:23:08	tadzik	most (?) current spaceships are also powered by nuclear reactors, fueled by a byproduct of nuclear weapon creation. Does that make them bad too?
2020-06-15 11:23:41	dkibi	but yeah military implications are hard to avoid in this space
2020-06-15 11:23:53	solderpunk	I really don't mean to be flippant, but if you are uncomfortable about peaceful repurposing of what was originally military technology, I have bad news about this "internet" thing...
2020-06-15 11:25:55	solderpunk	But the titan:// companion protocol is, at this stage, such a speculative maybe thing, that I don't think it will be problematic to change the name if people are bothered by it.
2020-06-15 11:26:46	tadzik	oh, I thought this topic is about Gemini all along
2020-06-15 11:26:52	solderpunk	Oh!
2020-06-15 11:26:54	dkibi	I don't even want to discuss the moral implications on this, I don't at all have a refined opinion on this and I must admit that if the gemini launcher had just a different name I would be happier I think
2020-06-15 11:27:10	dkibi	oh no sorry it was specifically about titan
2020-06-15 11:27:12	solderpunk	I assumed it was about Titan, which was specifically an ICBM.
2020-06-15 11:27:34	tadzik	according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gemini "Their launch vehicle was the Gemini–Titan II, a modified Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM)."
2020-06-15 11:27:49	solderpunk	To be honest, before we stress about the idea of what to call it, I am still really, really struggling to figure out what I think about the whole concept of a companion uploading protocol.
2020-06-15 11:27:59	solderpunk	I actually came in here just now to feel out how people were feeling about it.
2020-06-15 11:28:11	dkibi	and this is not a super strong feeling either, otherwise I would have brought this up on the mailinglist. it's something that went through my head and I thought putting it here might be appropiately informal
2020-06-15 11:28:30	solderpunk	Ironically, I now need to disappear for 20 minutes or so to run an unexpected errand, but I will be back.
2020-06-15 11:29:15	dkibi	but one snarky comment: well at least the web came from a civilian insititution ^^
2020-06-15 11:30:35	@tomasino	I... still don't think it's necessary. I know kensanata really love wikis but everything is so much simpler without upload
2020-06-15 11:31:05	`epochbot	reverse gemini.
2020-06-15 11:31:06	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 11:31:11	`epochbot	ta da
2020-06-15 11:31:22	`epochbot	assuming ports are easy to open. >_>
2020-06-15 11:31:56	`epochbot	I have a 10 asking for the URL to download what you want to upload from...
2020-06-15 11:32:15	`epochbot	then my server downloads it with a gemini-capable curl or something
2020-06-15 11:32:32	`epochbot	if you want to upload directly from your computer, host a gemini server for a few minutes?
2020-06-15 11:34:07	`epochbot	could just be 'give me a URL that I understand that points at your file. here's the URL schemes I understand:'
2020-06-15 11:34:22	`epochbot	http, ftp, https, gemini, gopher, magnet...
2020-06-15 11:34:38	`epochbot	_     _
2020-06-15 11:34:39	`epochbot	 \O_o/
2020-06-15 11:36:51	`epochbot	maybe I'll put my big gender-neutral pants on and write an implementation myself
2020-06-15 11:41:07	@tomasino	if the protocol supports uploads then it would need to support the full range of CRUD operations to be a complete solution. Then the server must have its code added to handle all those parts, but that's almost the easy part. Now a fully featured client would need tools to let people edit, create, delete, move, etc. It becomes a file manager, a text editor and more. 
2020-06-15 11:41:28	@tomasino	it's not a trivial scope increase, but a massive one that would affect all parts of the gemini ecosystem
2020-06-15 11:42:08	@tomasino	i have no doubt it's doable. We've seen that already. I just don't see how the implications of a change like that are good for the simple protocol. 
2020-06-15 11:43:50	@tomasino	if we go with the argument that clients are not also content editors and this would be a different tooling then we haven't really improved on anything over FTP or SCP or an SSH login to edit content. The mechanism is still a secondary tooling and we just added the complexity to be novel
2020-06-15 11:45:02	`epochbot	any gemini clients displaying response before it finishes sending?
2020-06-15 11:45:19	`epochbot	so I could like, send one line at a time very slowly...
2020-06-15 11:45:20	@tomasino	great question `epochbot 
2020-06-15 11:45:28	@tomasino	i wanted to set up a gemini stream at one point
2020-06-15 11:45:33	@tomasino	seemed like no clients supported it yet
2020-06-15 11:46:07	@tomasino	since parsing is linewise and doesn't loop back to earlier content it should be trivial... as long as the content can be parsed as a stream instead of downloading first and then processing
2020-06-15 11:46:20	tadzik	well, given that there's no content-length, I guess the clients don't actually know when the content is finished :)
2020-06-15 11:46:31	@tomasino	they get the EOF, don't they?
2020-06-15 11:46:41	@tomasino	i think they're waiting on that, or the server to drop the connection
2020-06-15 11:46:46	`epochbot	^
2020-06-15 11:46:58	tadzik	hum, I guess. When I did my digging with 'ncat --ssl', the server wasn't closing the connection, as the spec requires it to
2020-06-15 11:47:10	tadzik	so I assumed it's up to the clients' best guess
2020-06-15 11:47:15	`epochbot	ncat might've been leaving it open
2020-06-15 11:47:21	@tomasino	could be?
2020-06-15 11:47:53	@tomasino	regardless, if someone were to build a client to expect a stream you could do cool things like news tickers or a fediverse front-end
2020-06-15 11:48:20	`epochbot	I think I might have to modify my gemini client to better support this.
2020-06-15 11:48:47	`epochbot	like, it reads the first line, then finds out the program that'll read the rest
2020-06-15 11:48:51	`epochbot	and just pipes to that or something
2020-06-15 11:49:00	`epochbot	or exec()s in place
2020-06-15 11:49:25	`epochbot	if mime-type = audio/mpeg exec mpv -
2020-06-15 11:49:35	`epochbot	hrm...
2020-06-15 11:50:00	@tomasino	yep, works on gopher nicely too in the same way
2020-06-15 11:50:08	@tomasino	you can stream video if you expect it
2020-06-15 11:50:24	`epochbot	yeah, I tested that with xwindows the other day
2020-06-15 11:51:10	`epochbot	I have a 24/7 stream of shuffled music from my computer
2020-06-15 11:51:13	`epochbot	but it is a bit weird
2020-06-15 11:51:22	`epochbot	you can use it for testing if you don't mind the noise
2020-06-15 11:51:53	`epochbot	gopher://lin.thebackupbox.net:7070/9/radio
2020-06-15 11:52:09	@tomasino	oh nice
2020-06-15 11:52:14	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-15 11:52:18	`epochbot	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/radio is just connecting to the same stream
2020-06-15 11:52:39	`epochbot	mpv and ffplay have gopher support
2020-06-15 11:52:47	`epochbot	mpv through ffplay I think
2020-06-15 11:53:42	`epochbot	there's a now-playing.txt hanging out on most protocols if you want to check that
2020-06-15 11:54:06	solderpunk	`epochbot: Your "reverse gemini" is exactly what I proposed when this issue first came up.
2020-06-15 11:54:28	solderpunk	I still think it's by far the nicest solution.
2020-06-15 11:54:39	solderpunk	The problem is that ports *aren't* easy to open in many situations.
2020-06-15 11:57:15	`epochbot	heh.
2020-06-15 11:57:20	`epochbot	series of 10s
2020-06-15 11:58:35	solderpunk	I always hoped they would be one day, but I doubt it now that there is huge commercial incentive against it (acting as middle man for "smart" devices at home which users can't directly connect to lets you hoover up lots of profitable data).
2020-06-15 11:59:30	`epochbot	base64 file | fold -w 500 | xargs -I % gemini://my-server/upload.cgi/filename?%
2020-06-15 11:59:46	`epochbot	^ terrible idea and probably not even proper arg names
2020-06-15 11:59:56	solderpunk	Monstrous overhead for large fils.
2020-06-15 12:00:03	solderpunk	Not that I really think we should care about large files.
2020-06-15 12:00:12	solderpunk	Gemini is obviously bad for them in so many ways.
2020-06-15 12:00:14	xq	hey solderpunk
2020-06-15 12:00:18	solderpunk	Hey xq
2020-06-15 12:00:33	xq	not on the ML, but: full ack on your response to my "mobile networks are shitty" rant
2020-06-15 12:00:34	@tomasino	i dunno, solderpunk... konpeito
2020-06-15 12:00:41	xq	and thanks for clarification of the target audience/creators
2020-06-15 12:01:01	@tomasino	and, if people do start using streaming, that could be neat
2020-06-15 12:01:15	tadzik	putting something on IPFS is probably the "easiest" way for serving something locally with working natpunching
2020-06-15 12:01:22	tadzik	not to be confused with the simpliest way though
2020-06-15 12:01:57	solderpunk	The "never read" Best Practices document specifically mentions using links to ipfs for large content, always has.
2020-06-15 12:02:07	tadzik	I've read it :)
2020-06-15 12:02:13	solderpunk	Yay :)
2020-06-15 12:02:15	@tomasino	it's a sexy document
2020-06-15 12:02:22	tadzik	the problem is, you still have 1024 bytes to fit in
2020-06-15 12:02:25	tadzik	what if the URL is long?
2020-06-15 12:02:36	@tomasino	i haven't checked it in a while, though. did you make many updates?
2020-06-15 12:02:54	solderpunk	I mean, I floated the idea of bumping up that limit so we can just use ordinary Gemini requests with long queries to upload.
2020-06-15 12:02:54	`epochbot	should URLs be allowed to be arbitrarily long anyway?
2020-06-15 12:03:05	tadzik	iirc the whole "GET-like" line is 1024 bytes by spec, and the input thingy is supposed to be attached to a URL with a question mark
2020-06-15 12:03:09	solderpunk	Not many people seemed interested.
2020-06-15 12:03:09	@tomasino	1024 bytes is a really long URL
2020-06-15 12:03:31	`epochbot	I've actually used a really long URL before
2020-06-15 12:03:46	`epochbot	but that was firefox shoving a whole base64'd cert into it
2020-06-15 12:04:05	`epochbot	I'll setup a link shortener to point at one...
2020-06-15 12:04:11	tadzik	it is. But now you end up with an awkward "the maximum upload size is 1024 minus the length of the current url", give or take an off-by-one
2020-06-15 12:04:26	`epochbot	(since pasting the whole thing here would get split beween IRC lines)
2020-06-15 12:04:40	@tomasino	ahh, it's not prompting and responding like we do with the search text thing?
2020-06-15 12:04:51	tadzik	IPFS urls are fairly short. magnet links are a bit longer, probably still far from 1024 though
2020-06-15 12:05:06	@tomasino	upload query, response: what do you want? upload <url> to <path> ?
2020-06-15 12:05:11	tadzik	is't the search text thing just doing a requery?
2020-06-15 12:05:16	solderpunk	I really don't want anybody to think I am opposed to "ordinary people" being able to publish on Gemini.  I'm really, truly, not.  I get that it's an important and worthwhile goal and I'm not opposed to it.
2020-06-15 12:05:52	solderpunk	I just feel like after very nearly one year of hard work and long discussions and fierce debates we've ended up with something really nice which meets all the original goals and is still simple and elegant and implementable and think-about-able by almost anyone.
2020-06-15 12:06:09	solderpunk	And now, at the very last minute, I feel under intense pressure to massively shift the goalpost.
2020-06-15 12:06:21	`epochbot	tee hee. this link broke my shortener
2020-06-15 12:06:27	solderpunk	For a good cause, but one that nobody mentioned even once for the past 11 months.
2020-06-15 12:06:44	@tomasino	i have a thought
2020-06-15 12:06:47	solderpunk	And I can easily see the full ramifications of this taking another year to flesh out.
2020-06-15 12:06:52	`epochbot	(it probably had the Location: header too long for an HTTP's liking)
2020-06-15 12:07:13	@tomasino	call me crazy... but couldn't you just do the "gemini server, please replace this page with content from this other URL, here's my cert" thing with cgi?
2020-06-15 12:07:15	solderpunk	And that's another year we spend arguing about stuff on the mailing list instead of building stuff with the existing spec, whose capabilities we *still* haven't even began to fully explore.
2020-06-15 12:07:20	@tomasino	does it need to be in the protocol at all?
2020-06-15 12:07:33	`epochbot	^ that's what I was just writing
2020-06-15 12:07:36	tadzik	tomasino: that works, but I think the question is "how do we do that without requiring people to set up a server"
2020-06-15 12:07:42	solderpunk	Sure, you could do that.
2020-06-15 12:07:52	@tomasino	why would you not require people to set up a server?
2020-06-15 12:07:54	tadzik	"here's a URL" requires you to be able to upload something somewhere in the first place
2020-06-15 12:07:56	solderpunk	How does a "normal person" get the replacement content at a CGI.
2020-06-15 12:07:58	tadzik	so it's a bit of a chicken and egg
2020-06-15 12:08:09	@tomasino	oh, no, it just means you need to stage it somewhere for a second
2020-06-15 12:08:17	@tomasino	and there are pastebins gallore
2020-06-15 12:08:33	tadzik	and how do you upload to the pastebins? :)
2020-06-15 12:08:37	tadzik	unless you help yourself with HTTP
2020-06-15 12:08:39	@tomasino	some other network's problem
2020-06-15 12:09:01	tadzik	in that case you may just say "gemini is read only and uploads are another protocol's problem"
2020-06-15 12:09:09	@tomasino	why choose the world's simplest and easiest protocol to solve the hard problem?
2020-06-15 12:09:13	tadzik	(which I think the current gemini+something:// idea boils down to)
2020-06-15 12:09:35	@tomasino	(okay, that's finger, but still)
2020-06-15 12:09:56	@tomasino	i don't think it's worth the cruft
2020-06-15 12:10:03	tadzik	I think "let's not solve that problem at all" is a valid conclusion
2020-06-15 12:10:08	@tomasino	this upload stuff will dwarf the rest of the spec
2020-06-15 12:10:30	solderpunk	It really will.
2020-06-15 12:10:46	@tomasino	we haven't even started talking about error handling
2020-06-15 12:10:51	solderpunk	And saying "It's a separate protocol, called Titan, not Gemini!" could *easily* become just an empty trick of language.
2020-06-15 12:11:00	solderpunk	If people end up expecting them to always work together.
2020-06-15 12:11:15	tadzik	. o O ( the javascript of html )
2020-06-15 12:11:26	solderpunk	Precisely.
2020-06-15 12:11:39	@tomasino	gemscript... why not call it ruby. :P
2020-06-15 12:11:51	solderpunk	I like the pastebin idea, actually.
2020-06-15 12:11:55	solderpunk	I could be a super limited one.
2020-06-15 12:12:14	solderpunk	Like, once the pasted content gets fetched over a Gemini URL once, it could be deleted from the server.
2020-06-15 12:12:28	@tomasino	if someone wants to build a "wordpress" on gemini, they can do that entirely via their CGI
2020-06-15 12:12:40	@tomasino	it could be a thing that colud be distributed as software that works ON gemini
2020-06-15 12:13:07	@tomasino	it could itself become a pastebin that runs on another port and accepts cert signed blobs or some shit
2020-06-15 12:13:16	solderpunk	I just worry that people will think it's too clunky.
2020-06-15 12:13:41	solderpunk	I'm genuinely worried this whole thing is going to blow up into a "Gemini is only for elitist pubnix nerds" issue.
2020-06-15 12:13:47	@tomasino	"everyday people" figured out how to use FTP for decades before wikis
2020-06-15 12:14:28	tadzik	an ftp replacement in gemini's spirit would be a cool sister protocol :)
2020-06-15 12:14:39	solderpunk	I really do think it's defeatist and self-fulfilling to say that everyday people will never be able to use sftp.
2020-06-15 12:15:38	@tomasino	web publishing is also moving away from authoring in the browser. Static site generation solves so many problems
2020-06-15 12:15:59	solderpunk	I don't see why Gemini, with good, user-friendly documentation served over Gemini, can't be a great vehicle to get people to start learning how to do stuff like that again.
2020-06-15 12:16:09	@tomasino	that's true
2020-06-15 12:16:41	solderpunk	I'm very tired of this mentality that people can't or won't learn to use things if you give them a good motivation.
2020-06-15 12:17:02	thombles	Gemini is by design too simple to support maintaining a Gemini site in-band
2020-06-15 12:17:09	xq	solderpunk: btw, you near-convinced me to your position here ;)
2020-06-15 12:17:17	@tomasino	lets say kenanata builds a CGI based wiki and gbmor is sad that he can't figure out how to get a public address, well then cmccabe comes along and makes a program that will auto-stage and submit the content to said CGI doodad. Ecosystem solved it. No spec change
2020-06-15 12:17:18	xq	i retreat from the upload discussion
2020-06-15 12:17:35	solderpunk	Near-convinced but not fully?
2020-06-15 12:17:53	solderpunk	If you have some lingering doubt, let us hear it!  I don't want people to think I am trying to steamroll them.
2020-06-15 12:18:12	solderpunk	Especially not because of some vain, abstact aesthetic preference for minimalism.
2020-06-15 12:18:45	solderpunk	(I see minimalism in tech as being in *direct service* of security, reliability, etc)
2020-06-15 12:19:00	@tomasino	we were arguing against the creation of a "> " line type because of fear it might lead to a ">> " line type. And now we're talking about tripling the size of the spec to add in full CRUD
2020-06-15 12:19:10	tadzik	heh
2020-06-15 12:19:10	solderpunk	Haha.
2020-06-15 12:19:11	xq	<solderpunk> (I see minimalism in tech as being in *direct service* of security, reliability, etc)
2020-06-15 12:19:11	xq	true
2020-06-15 12:19:13	solderpunk	Very true.
2020-06-15 12:19:16	xq	and on the near-convinced
2020-06-15 12:19:22	xq	it's a gut feeling thingy
2020-06-15 12:19:26	xq	nothing technical
2020-06-15 12:19:54	solderpunk	Fair enough.
2020-06-15 12:19:54	xq	i just love spaces where there is a low-entry on content creation/publishing
2020-06-15 12:20:01	@tomasino	hey solderpunk, is there any way via MIME type to indicate a resource is a stream and not a document?
2020-06-15 12:20:07	@tomasino	that's categorical info, right?
2020-06-15 12:20:12	xq	imho that's the reason why twitter/tumblr/… are so popular. it's easy
2020-06-15 12:20:34	@tomasino	stream/gemini or something?
2020-06-15 12:20:42	@tomasino	or octec+stream:/text/gemini
2020-06-15 12:20:45	@tomasino	i dunno the formatting of mimes
2020-06-15 12:20:53	thombles	I would say that text/gemini is a stream to begin with
2020-06-15 12:21:04	thombles	There is never any reason not to process it line by line
2020-06-15 12:21:07	solderpunk	tomasino: Good question.  I have no idea how streaming music over HTTP works, what is the Content-type header set to there?
2020-06-15 12:21:07	xq	thombles: it's kinda not, it's a file.
2020-06-15 12:21:16	xq	the idea of tomasino is more a music stream
2020-06-15 12:21:18	xq	never-ending
2020-06-15 12:21:25	`epochbot	just need clients to implement it in a certain way if people want it displayed as it comes in instead of at EOF?
2020-06-15 12:21:45	@tomasino	yeah, because gemtext is uniquely situated to act as a fully parsable stream, i'd like to explore using it that way
2020-06-15 12:21:52	@tomasino	but all the clients are assuming document downloads
2020-06-15 12:21:59	@tomasino	waiting on the server to hang up and then parse
2020-06-15 12:22:04	thombles	Guilty lol
2020-06-15 12:22:06	solderpunk	Huh.
2020-06-15 12:22:09	solderpunk	Yeah, guilty too.
2020-06-15 12:22:12	`epochbot	ditto
2020-06-15 12:22:12	xq	same
2020-06-15 12:22:13	solderpunk	But I'm super intrigued by exploring this.
2020-06-15 12:22:15	thombles	But I think you should challenge that assumption
2020-06-15 12:22:20	thombles	And set up something so we all fix it
2020-06-15 12:22:26	solderpunk	Argh, friggin' heck!
2020-06-15 12:22:32	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-15 12:22:34	solderpunk	THAT is how you do something like IRC over Gemini.
2020-06-15 12:22:35	xq	music streams via gemini :3
2020-06-15 12:22:39	@tomasino	yep!
2020-06-15 12:22:41	xq	haha
2020-06-15 12:22:53	xq	text/gemini stream + input queries + client certs => distributed chat!
2020-06-15 12:23:12	@tomasino	wow, i was just thinking read-only realtime peek at IRC chan
2020-06-15 12:23:14	@tomasino	but yeah
2020-06-15 12:23:25	`epochbot	one tab just 10ing over and over and another showing output?
2020-06-15 12:23:31	solderpunk	Exactly.
2020-06-15 12:23:40	xq	yep
2020-06-15 12:23:41	solderpunk	And those two tabs could be integrated into a single application.
2020-06-15 12:24:01	xq	i think kristall needs a stream handling option … :D
2020-06-15 12:24:09	thombles	In terms of a streamable text/gemini, for most purposes there is little difference between incremental loading and streaming. There are just questions on what do you do if it's an intentionally long stream? If it's a GUI client to do you auto-scroll-to-bottom? Do you let the server hold the connection open as long as it wants even if there's no data?
2020-06-15 12:24:16	`epochbot	you could watch your logs if you want.
2020-06-15 12:24:39	@tomasino	being able to differentiate between document and stream would allow clients to handle them uniquely
2020-06-15 12:24:40	xq	`epochbot, exactly my thought :D
2020-06-15 12:24:45	@tomasino	and offer things like "always show the latest"
2020-06-15 12:24:46	xq	dmesg -w | gemini-server
2020-06-15 12:25:18	`epochbot	(I've been sending my logs to an IRC channel for at least a decade by now)
2020-06-15 12:25:30	solderpunk	Man, client cert secured remote tailing of logs!
2020-06-15 12:25:40	solderpunk	That's super nice.
2020-06-15 12:25:43	xq	the possibilities!
2020-06-15 12:25:49	xq	super nice indeed
2020-06-15 12:25:49	@tomasino	this is a much more exciting line of thinking than uploads
2020-06-15 12:25:50	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-15 12:25:55	thombles	Having thought about it for a minute, I think these are purely client side options
2020-06-15 12:26:13	solderpunk	That's kind of my point!  We literally have not even begun to scratch the surface of what can be done with what is already specced.
2020-06-15 12:26:19	solderpunk	And people are already hollering for a whole load more.
2020-06-15 12:26:37	@tomasino	want me to write something about streams to the ML? start that ball rolling?
2020-06-15 12:26:50	xq	+1
2020-06-15 12:26:59	solderpunk	I fear it's never going to end if I don't turn into a stereotypical FOSS leader asshole like Theo de Radt.
2020-06-15 12:27:11	solderpunk	Raddt?
2020-06-15 12:27:17	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-15 12:27:22	solderpunk	Anyway, I don't have it in me to do that.
2020-06-15 12:27:31	solderpunk	But this thing has to be called "done" at some point.
2020-06-15 12:27:39	@tomasino	i think you're ready for a freeze
2020-06-15 12:27:46	@tomasino	personally
2020-06-15 12:27:51	thombles	^
2020-06-15 12:28:01	@tomasino	the stream question isn't really spec related
2020-06-15 12:28:06	xq	i haven't read the latest spec update (shame on me), but i think we're quitie done with discussing stuff
2020-06-15 12:28:13	@tomasino	it's clarification on mimes and how people are constructing clients
2020-06-15 12:28:40	xq	i have to restructure Kristall for that
2020-06-15 12:28:46	xq	but it was on the todolist anyways
2020-06-15 12:28:49	@tomasino	hopping on a client call now. I'll try to knock out this ML email here in a few min
2020-06-15 12:28:52	thombles	At a higher level, it looks like the recent upload discussions have been driven primarily by wiki enthusiasts, and then a number of others of us have been wondering what this means for general purpose in-band authoring (tentative conclusion: ugh)
2020-06-15 12:28:55	xq	have some unification for different operational modes
2020-06-15 12:29:30	`epochbot	printf "gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/datestream\r\n" | openssl s_client -quiet -connect 21.41.41.1:1965
2020-06-15 12:29:37	`epochbot	infinite text file of date
2020-06-15 12:30:31	thombles	From the wiki perspective it's almost elegant because you can use CGI to handle anything more complicated than pure upload of bulk text
2020-06-15 12:31:51	thombles	Maybe I'm biased but I don't think using a CMS by default is a popular proposition
2020-06-15 12:31:58	thombles	And if we don't have that, we need full CRUD as somebody mentioned earlier
2020-06-15 12:32:14	`epochbot	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/upload will ask for a URL with a 10 that it will then download and place into /incoming/
2020-06-15 12:32:27	`epochbot	(and name the timestamp of when you did it)
2020-06-15 12:33:22	`epochbot	now the hard part of making my client able to /not/ try to cache the whole response before trying to display it.
2020-06-15 12:33:36	`epochbot	it needs to be tee cache_file | handler
2020-06-15 12:33:46	`epochbot	instead of > cache_file ; handler < cache_file
2020-06-15 12:33:58	`epochbot	:)
2020-06-15 12:34:13	xq	solderpunk: some input on the client certificate topic:
2020-06-15 12:34:18	xq	*server certificate*
2020-06-15 12:34:25	xq	a keypair is your identity
2020-06-15 12:34:38	solderpunk	Alright, later tonight I will announce those recent spec change proposals as accepted and then freeze the spec for at least 4 months.
2020-06-15 12:34:44	solderpunk	Correct.
2020-06-15 12:34:50	solderpunk	Well, your public key is your identity.
2020-06-15 12:34:54	solderpunk	Well.
2020-06-15 12:34:57	xq	kinda
2020-06-15 12:34:57	solderpunk	Maybe :p
2020-06-15 12:35:05	solderpunk	I think really your hostname is your identity.
2020-06-15 12:35:08	xq	if you exchange the key, you exchange your identity and there's no way to *safely* convey that identity
2020-06-15 12:35:16	thombles	I did wonder, is it normal to just keep fingerprints? Like SSH for example just stores the whole public key because why not
2020-06-15 12:35:17	xq	well, i can change host name, but keep the key
2020-06-15 12:35:30	xq	thombles: ssh has no certificates
2020-06-15 12:35:43	thombles	I know, but authorized_keys does store a whole public key i nit
2020-06-15 12:35:53	solderpunk	AV-98 stores the entire key.
2020-06-15 12:35:58	xq	and i think the certificate idea is okay, because TLS requires this
2020-06-15 12:36:12	xq	but we should do the SSH thing (use keypairs as an identity, not certificates)
2020-06-15 12:36:26	xq	so having a key expire is imho the wrong way
2020-06-15 12:36:41	xq	certificates are meant to expire, but we could just use absurdly high live spans
2020-06-15 12:36:50	solderpunk	Right, TLS *requires* it, we can't just do keys, ala SSH.  But a self-signed certificate is basically the closest thing you can get to a cert with "signature=null", and I encourage people to think abou them as just keys.
2020-06-15 12:36:50	xq	but we shouldn't exchange the privkey in the backend
2020-06-15 12:36:59	solderpunk	I mean, keys *should* expire eventually.
2020-06-15 12:37:09	solderpunk	Otherwise the risk of compromise eventually becomes a certainty.
2020-06-15 12:37:14	solderpunk	But certainly they can have lifespans of years.
2020-06-15 12:38:04	solderpunk	I certainly don't think Gemini servers using self-signed certs and targetting TOFU clients should be changing key and cert every three months.
2020-06-15 12:39:02	thombles	The comment about LE rotating privkeys was interesting - I assume people already have certbot on their system and they're reusing the same cert for convenience?
2020-06-15 12:39:35	solderpunk	I am using LE for gemini.circumlunar.space because there's also a HTTPS server on it and I was lazy.
2020-06-15 12:39:40	solderpunk	But I think I will change soon.
2020-06-15 12:39:53	solderpunk	I think many people are doing it just because they have no idea that anything else is possible.
2020-06-15 12:40:04	solderpunk	A lot of people who flocked to the project after the HN post totally missed the TOFU thing.
2020-06-15 12:40:24	solderpunk	And made posts to the ML talking about how "for some reason lots of people in Geminispace aren't setting up their certs correctly".
2020-06-15 12:40:34	thombles	lol
2020-06-15 12:41:10	solderpunk	I will write some kind of gentle intro to certs and TOFU and stuff One Day After The Freeze.
2020-06-15 12:41:57	solderpunk	And eventually maybe a cron-jobbable tool to implement some of these ideas, like pre-advertising new cert fingerprints.
2020-06-15 12:42:12	xq	btw, tomasino: you shouldn't reply to wild emails on the mailing list to start new topics
2020-06-15 12:42:16	thombles	I was thinking about how matrix allowed self-signed certs for servers but I see they changed it for synapse 1.0 and now you need to use LE et al
2020-06-15 12:42:31	@tomasino	oh did that not just start a new thread?
2020-06-15 12:42:38	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 12:42:39	xq	nope :D
2020-06-15 12:42:46	xq	same with your video announcement
2020-06-15 12:42:55	@tomasino	good to know!
2020-06-15 12:43:00	@tomasino	sorry about that
2020-06-15 12:43:29	@tomasino	i'm gonna have to add the ML as a contact and start a new email, i guess
2020-06-15 12:44:30	solderpunk	It's totally overkill, but I still want to write some kind of smol Gemini certificate observatory daemon and get AV-98 to consult it when it sees a new cert.
2020-06-15 12:44:40	⚡	tiwesdaeg finally catches up with reading backlogs
2020-06-15 12:44:45	dkibi	I saw the TOFU stuff, but then completely ignored what that implies and used the usual Let's encrypt stuff. will be fun when that runs out -.-
2020-06-15 12:44:50	solderpunk	Oh hai tiwesdaeg.
2020-06-15 12:44:53	~tiwesdaeg	heya
2020-06-15 12:45:05	thombles	dkibi: Don't worry, guarantee 90% of clients are just blindly trusting certs :)
2020-06-15 12:45:13	xq	haha :D
2020-06-15 12:45:23	solderpunk	Eeek, I hope that's not true.  But you're probably right.
2020-06-15 12:45:23	xq	i'm working on that for Kristall
2020-06-15 12:45:31	xq	i have to admin: i'm guilty
2020-06-15 12:45:44	solderpunk	It's early days.  We will Get Better.
2020-06-15 12:45:45	xq	started to do the menuing stuff already though :)
2020-06-15 12:45:53	dkibi	but at least because of that it seems like I was the first to use a ECDSA cert xD
2020-06-15 12:46:05	solderpunk	We will write tools to make it easier for others to Get Better too.
2020-06-15 12:46:15	dkibi	and could report a bug to my distribution xD
2020-06-15 12:46:24	xq	btw, hype: https://mq32.de/public/414a1330cf537c15b9e68e9c77deb40b089a8a20.jpg
2020-06-15 12:46:36	solderpunk	I wanna try using a ed25519 cert for gemini.circumlunar.space, to make the cert as small as possible.
2020-06-15 12:46:46	~tiwesdaeg	did we get anywhere with the idea that you can use DNS to certify a cert?
2020-06-15 12:46:48	`epochbot	could somehow get people to setup an offline CA and use that to sign all their new certs and.... yeah. not likely.
2020-06-15 12:46:48	xq	dkibi: i should change certificate generation in Kristall to ECDSA as well
2020-06-15 12:46:52	solderpunk	Whoo!
2020-06-15 12:46:53	~tiwesdaeg	I can't remember what it's called
2020-06-15 12:47:02	solderpunk	It's called DANE.
2020-06-15 12:47:05	solderpunk	It's totally a thing.
2020-06-15 12:47:20	solderpunk	For it to REALLY work, people need to sign their DNS records using DNSSEC.
2020-06-15 12:47:24	solderpunk	But nobody does that.
2020-06-15 12:47:28	~tiwesdaeg	my phone can't wait
2020-06-15 12:47:46	solderpunk	However, it KIND OF works even without DNSSEC if you use something like dnscrypt.
2020-06-15 12:48:01	`epochbot	I do DNSSEC
2020-06-15 12:48:07	~tiwesdaeg	does it require extra software or just a properly configured DNS record?
2020-06-15 12:48:12	`epochbot	pretty comfy when using knotd
2020-06-15 12:48:19	solderpunk	(in the sense that for your ISP to MITM you, they'd need to also be able to simultaneously attack your DNS provider)
2020-06-15 12:48:27	solderpunk	Okay, corect, `epochbot uses DNSSEC. :p
2020-06-15 12:48:44	dkibi	thombles: well bombadillo does check and is somewhat widely used
2020-06-15 12:48:50	~tiwesdaeg	I'm just thinking, with all this TOFU and cert expiration dates
2020-06-15 12:49:07	thombles	dkibi: That's good! I'm just being flippant :)
2020-06-15 12:49:08	dkibi	I think otrn.org has dnssec
2020-06-15 12:49:20	@tomasino	DNSSEC is signed for ino.is and tomasino.is!
2020-06-15 12:49:28	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-15 12:51:48	@tomasino	i can't quite get it to work all teh way for tomasino.org
2020-06-15 12:52:06	thombles	ISPs are usually DNS providers too aren't they?
2020-06-15 12:52:14	dkibi	at some point I want to actually understand TLS xD but that's far into the future
2020-06-15 12:53:42	`epochbot	ISPs are usually DNS providers for the domains they own? I'm not sure what rate of them self-host or host it somewhere else.
2020-06-15 12:54:01	`epochbot	but most of them will at least run their own caches
2020-06-15 12:54:06	thombles	the F5 DevCentral youtube channel has some amazing 10-15 minute explanations of TLS
2020-06-15 12:54:34	thombles	that's how I learnt what the deal is with TLS 1.3 and its cipher restrictions
2020-06-15 12:56:17	`epochbot	tomasino: https://dnssec-analyzer.verisignlabs.com/tomasino.is looks good here.
2020-06-15 12:56:39	xq	tiwesdaeg: for android, i need to restructure the UI to be usable. the settings menu is just too big for everything
2020-06-15 12:56:42	@tomasino	ISNIC was set up great for it
2020-06-15 12:56:54	@tomasino	Namesilo choked on one key type
2020-06-15 12:56:57	`epochbot	https://dnsviz.net/d/tomasino.is/dnssec/ this had an error, but it looks like a down DNS server higher up the chain
2020-06-15 12:57:11	solderpunk	Okay, so those of you who have DNSSEC working: you can stick a DANE record with your self-signed cert (or its fingerprint?  I forget) in there.
2020-06-15 12:57:24	solderpunk	When a TOFU client first sees your cert, it can use DNS to validate it.
2020-06-15 12:57:29	solderpunk	Then accept it automatically without bugging the uesr.
2020-06-15 12:57:36	solderpunk	And then scream loudly if it ever changes.
2020-06-15 12:57:39	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I can be patient, I swear
2020-06-15 12:57:48	@tomasino	I am going to have to Google half those words
2020-06-15 12:57:55	@tomasino	;)
2020-06-15 12:58:14	`epochbot	should a cert have both a DANE /and/ be signed by Lets Encrypt, DANE wins I assume?
2020-06-15 12:58:36	`epochbot	do you trust DNSSEC more, or LE?
2020-06-15 12:58:41	solderpunk	If you're using a CA like LE, you can use a different kind of DANE record to say "Only LE are allowed to sign for my domain".
2020-06-15 12:59:17	solderpunk	And that then solves the problem that any one of the hundreds or thousands of CAs your browser trusts by default can sign for your domain.
2020-06-15 12:59:49	`epochbot	I'll add DANE stuff to my todo list.
2020-06-15 13:00:02	@tomasino	Oh, and solderpunk... Directory traversal was the big security hole in jetforce that prompted the release a few weeks back
2020-06-15 13:00:11	solderpunk	Aaah, is that so?
2020-06-15 13:00:37	@tomasino	Yep! I realized I could see my own private key and logged it in GitHub
2020-06-15 13:00:37	solderpunk	Much like the simple TLS intro, One Day After The Freeze I'll write some kind of "Common gotchas for server/client implementors".
2020-06-15 13:00:47	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: on a scale of gemini server to postfix/dovecot, how hard is DNSSEC to setup?
2020-06-15 13:00:47	solderpunk	Ouch!
2020-06-15 13:00:59	@tomasino	0.3
2020-06-15 13:01:28	@tomasino	I don't grok everything being done but the steps are limited
2020-06-15 13:01:34	~tiwesdaeg	ok
2020-06-15 13:01:44	@tomasino	A lot of the difficulty depends on your DNS provider
2020-06-15 13:01:46	~tiwesdaeg	I'll poke around at it tomorrow when I am stuck at work
2020-06-15 13:01:52	`epochbot	I just noticed I had my gemini daemon running as root for the last few weeks
2020-06-15 13:02:17	solderpunk	So glad I made the default port above 1024 :p
2020-06-15 13:02:24	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using namecheap's DNS
2020-06-15 13:02:48	thombles	solderpunk: Throwing a bone to the golang devs :)
2020-06-15 13:02:56	`epochbot	now if only it'd error if root tried to use a higher port
2020-06-15 13:03:01	solderpunk	`epochbot: Which is your server?
2020-06-15 13:03:31	`epochbot	it doesn't have a name, just geminid
2020-06-15 13:03:39	`epochbot	lemme get a link to it
2020-06-15 13:04:34	`epochbot	looks like I haven't put it onto github yet.
2020-06-15 13:05:04	solderpunk	Oh, I meant the host, not the software, anyway.
2020-06-15 13:05:32	solderpunk	Like, can I connect your username here to some content I've seen on CAPCOM or something?
2020-06-15 13:06:05	`epochbot	oh, heh. gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/
2020-06-15 13:06:28	`epochbot	I don't really have much content, I just have hacks
2020-06-15 13:06:50	solderpunk	The <blink> tags!!1
2020-06-15 13:06:54	`epochbot	:>
2020-06-15 13:06:56	solderpunk	My eyes, the goggles do nothing!
2020-06-15 13:08:05	`epochbot	git://thebackupbox.net/shell-daemons has geminid in it if you want to find exploits and get an unprivileged user on a half-broke raspi 1
2020-06-15 13:08:49	solderpunk	Haha.
2020-06-15 13:09:45	`epochbot	I ran a wargame from home for a long time... should set one back up sometime.
2020-06-15 13:09:53	`epochbot	use all my previous bugs as levels
2020-06-15 13:10:00	xq	> GMI? Genetically Modified... Internet?
2020-06-15 13:10:02	xq	nice
2020-06-15 13:10:06	~tiwesdaeg	Would you like to play a game?
2020-06-15 13:10:23	xq	Let's play "global thermonuclear war", that sounds great
2020-06-15 13:10:27	@tomasino	how about a nice game of chess?
2020-06-15 13:10:53	`epochbot	hrm...
2020-06-15 13:11:01	`epochbot	that'd be a cool thing to make
2020-06-15 13:11:12	`epochbot	like, get that list and implement all the games on it.
2020-06-15 13:11:16	~tiwesdaeg	I really need to watch that movie with the kids
2020-06-15 13:11:34	dkibi	oh I like this
2020-06-15 13:11:39	`epochbot	I already have a chess interface and a tic-tac-toe interface, but they still need work.
2020-06-15 13:11:48	`epochbot	and I have a vector-map of the earth
2020-06-15 13:11:54	thombles	`epochbot: what is uricut?
2020-06-15 13:12:17	`epochbot	it is a tool I made to more easily get parts out of a URI
2020-06-15 13:12:26	thombles	oh I see
2020-06-15 13:12:27	`epochbot	lemme copy-paste a demo...
2020-06-15 13:12:58	~tiwesdaeg	http://www.quartzcity.net/ilx/wopr-game-list_design.png
2020-06-15 13:13:03	`epochbot	$ echo 'scheme://user:pass@host:port/path?query_string#fragment' | uricut
2020-06-15 13:13:03	`epochbot	scheme: scheme
2020-06-15 13:13:03	`epochbot	username: user
2020-06-15 13:13:03	`epochbot	password: pass
2020-06-15 13:13:03	`epochbot	domain: host
2020-06-15 13:13:03	`epochbot	port: port
2020-06-15 13:13:03	`epochbot	path: /path
2020-06-15 13:13:04	`epochbot	query_string: query_string
2020-06-15 13:13:04	`epochbot	fragment_id: fragment
2020-06-15 13:13:04	`epochbot	whole_uri: scheme://user:pass@host:port/path?query_string#fragment
2020-06-15 13:13:27	`epochbot	if you give uricut arguments you can select out specific pieces in the order the arguments are in.
2020-06-15 13:13:33	solderpunk	Does it throw a fatal error if you feed it a gemini://user:pass@ address? :p
2020-06-15 13:13:50	`epochbot	no, it takes a best guess.
2020-06-15 13:13:51	thombles	lol okay I see how this works now
2020-06-15 13:14:32	`epochbot	looks like atm it has an empty path and domain
2020-06-15 13:15:36	dkibi	ohhhh having a crt simulator in a gemini client *.*
2020-06-15 13:16:09	`epochbot	uricut is part of the uritools repo btw
2020-06-15 13:16:15	`epochbot	written in C, no regex
2020-06-15 13:16:25	`epochbot	https://github.com/kkabrams/uritools
2020-06-15 13:16:28	`epochbot	that one is on github
2020-06-15 13:18:37		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 13:18:47	`epochbot	and the .hackvr files are for some 3D... user interface program?
2020-06-15 13:19:38	`epochbot	which works with just stdin and stdout
2020-06-15 13:20:33	`epochbot	(well, and the X11 file descriptor that is used for getting user input for camera movement and rotation)
2020-06-15 13:22:14		anton has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-15 13:34:14	thombles	`epochbot: assuming "normalpath" does what it sounds like ("readlink -f"?) then that script looks safe to me
2020-06-15 13:34:37	`epochbot	it doesn't
2020-06-15 13:34:53	`epochbot	readlink -f requires the file to exist afaik
2020-06-15 13:35:11	`epochbot	which is why I wrote my own thing
2020-06-15 13:35:16	thombles	aha makes sense
2020-06-15 13:35:19	`epochbot	I'll see if I can find which repo I left that in
2020-06-15 13:35:20	thombles	but the same spirit
2020-06-15 13:35:36	`epochbot	it filters out ../s and extra ./
2020-06-15 13:36:13	`epochbot	copied normalpath.c to /var/gemini
2020-06-15 13:39:39	thombles	ah mate that's hectic
2020-06-15 13:39:52	thombles	I'm going to bed lol
2020-06-15 13:39:59	`epochbot	XD alright, g'night
2020-06-15 13:40:09	thombles	night folks
2020-06-15 13:40:12	solderpunk	'night!
2020-06-15 13:42:31	`epochbot	I'm gonna switch from play to work, so hilit if you need me, I'll be tabbed out.
2020-06-15 13:50:47	solderpunk	Righto!
2020-06-15 14:06:50	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 14:08:50	solderpunk	Hey kensanata!
2020-06-15 14:17:22	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 14:19:58	kensanata	Hello!
2020-06-15 14:26:48	solderpunk	I'm really sad we don't see eye to eye on the read-write thing. :(
2020-06-15 14:28:51	kensanata	Don't worry. I was sad yesterday. Writing that blog post got it out of my system.
2020-06-15 14:32:37	solderpunk	It's still a shame that sometimes really good ideas can be in conflict with one another.
2020-06-15 14:35:19	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 14:37:15	kensanata	Generally speaking I'm mostly interested in how this is going to move forward. Some of the alternatives proposed would be things I will never implement, like a system accepting mails as contributions, or a system that accepts screen fulls of a few hundred bytes, or solutions that are otherwise made deliberately harder to implement. So, I don't know. I feel like I'd simply be repeating myself if I continued the discussion.
2020-06-15 14:38:05	kensanata	From my point of view, I think the best way forward is to argue less and program more, because that's what I enjoy more. :)
2020-06-15 14:46:24	xq	kensanata: true!
2020-06-15 14:49:03	kensanata	Also, I'm unhappy about being unable to get the common name from a client certificate on my server because I don't understand what's going on. :D
2020-06-15 14:53:32	acdw	Hey I have a question for yall, regarding certs. For bollux it's looking like I have 2 options: I can (a) download the whole response, cert and all, to disk, then split the response into cert-part for verification, TOFU, etc, and the content part for display; or (b) connect to the server 2x, once for cert stuff, again for content. I'm thinking the
2020-06-15 14:53:32	acdw	first one but I'd love input from all of yall smart people.
2020-06-15 14:53:55	xq	huh
2020-06-15 14:53:59	xq	why is that?
2020-06-15 14:54:08	xq	what do you use as a tech base for bollux?
2020-06-15 14:54:14	@tomasino	bash
2020-06-15 14:54:21	xq	oh :D
2020-06-15 14:54:28	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-15 14:54:36	acdw	yeah ------ I'm only slightly regretting it
2020-06-15 14:54:49	@tomasino	it's valuable
2020-06-15 14:54:52	@tomasino	love it
2020-06-15 14:54:56	acdw	also good morning to everyone
2020-06-15 14:54:57	acdw	:)
2020-06-15 14:55:02	acdw	thanks tomasino
2020-06-15 14:59:26	kensanata	acdw: I'd download to disk; later I'm sure you'll be able to do something using variables and pipes and whatnot. But in order to get something that works, save to disk if you need to. That's better than connecting twice.
2020-06-15 14:59:42	acdw	yeah that's what I thought. plus I'd get caching for free.
2020-06-15 14:59:48	⚡	acdw afk
2020-06-15 15:00:04	kensanata	Some would say that cachine is never "free"...
2020-06-15 15:19:46		lickthecat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 15:35:29	kensanata	I added links to the history of wiki pages...
2020-06-15 15:54:36		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 15:57:40	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 16:04:10	acdw	kensanata: yes I suppose so, haha
2020-06-15 16:09:22	acdw	also you're right on getting *something* out there that works, and this is quite important
2020-06-15 17:07:02		solderpunk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 17:09:10	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 17:44:51	xq	> a point the demosceners amongst us
2020-06-15 17:44:51	xq	will attest to!
2020-06-15 17:44:54	xq	i feel adressed!
2020-06-15 17:49:52	mhj	Oh, so you're so one of those... hmph! ... I love it!
2020-06-15 17:50:34	xq	*grins*
2020-06-15 17:50:40	xq	i have two hardware demos
2020-06-15 17:50:55	xq	abusing a small heater control thingy with a display and a beeper D
2020-06-15 17:51:19	mhj	Heh, nice
2020-06-15 17:51:44	xq	i'm on the train atm, we can discuss/chat about this in ~1.5h if you want :)
2020-06-15 17:53:02	mhj	Sounds good :D
2020-06-15 18:50:29	paper	is there a tilde with gemini cgi hosting?
2020-06-15 18:50:42	acdw	ooh cgi would be awesome
2020-06-15 18:52:18	paper	I have some scripts I would like to host on gemini, but I don't have a pretty domain on my server
2020-06-15 18:53:26	@ben	i have gemini cgi set up on tilde.team
2020-06-15 18:54:02	@ben	i think tiwesdaeg has it set up on tilde.pink too
2020-06-15 18:55:10	⚡	xq is working on the Kristall TOFU implementation:
2020-06-15 18:55:10	xq	https://mq32.de/public/8618c5b73891d790ac11d1ac4c7fceef46638da3.png
2020-06-15 18:55:14	paper	ben: oh, I have a team account, thanks, I will try it
2020-06-15 18:55:27	@ben	gemini://tilde.team/
2020-06-15 18:55:38	@ben	you should show up there when you mkdir ~/public_gemini/
2020-06-15 18:59:06	paper	yup, I am there, thanks
2020-06-15 19:02:14	acdw	xq: very nice! I'm loving the look and use of kristall. I might have to learn C++  just so I can steal your ideas to bash :)
2020-06-15 19:09:23	xq	haha
2020-06-15 19:09:36	xq	i don't think you have to learn C++ for that
2020-06-15 19:09:39	xq	code should be pretty readable
2020-06-15 19:17:07	acdw	oh! I'll take a crack at it :)
2020-06-15 19:19:45	@tomasino	i haven't tried cgi on jetforce
2020-06-15 19:19:50	@tomasino	but we have jetforce on ~black
2020-06-15 19:19:53	@tomasino	it might already work
2020-06-15 19:24:37	paper	thanks for the offer, but I will go with team for now
2020-06-15 19:27:46	acdw	tomasino: I might try on ~black, though I (a) have no idea how CGI even works and (b) have no ideas on what to do. So no promises on timeline
2020-06-15 19:30:25	paper	I have a few scripts for local news + weather, it would be nice if we had something like a usable interface to github on gemini.
2020-06-15 19:31:38	paper	The main advantage for me is the low network usage. Instead of loading a 5MB website, I can request a gemini version of it and get the same info in a few KB.
2020-06-15 19:32:36	xq	paper: for funsies: try using KRistall with HTTPS enabled and browse github :D
2020-06-15 19:32:50	acdw	+1 to that. I  know there's already a text.npr.org mirror on gemini somewhere
2020-06-15 19:33:29	xq	https://mq32.de/public/3be070fbc5689fedd3b111fceaad245ba9c62a36.png
2020-06-15 19:33:31	xq	it's really fast :D
2020-06-15 19:33:45	paper	xq: I know, but it isn't optimised for viewing in this way
2020-06-15 19:33:48	paper	it's ugly
2020-06-15 19:33:51	xq	stimmt
2020-06-15 19:33:58	xq	*right
2020-06-15 19:34:08	⚡	xq has to stop chatting in multiple languages :D
2020-06-15 19:34:12	paper	acdw: we should create a list of gemini mirrors somewhere
2020-06-15 19:34:43	acdw	Lol. Gemini version of github is going to look very similar. If it's "ugly" with stripped down HTML it'll be "ugly" in text/gemini
2020-06-15 19:34:55	xq	yeah, maybe even more so
2020-06-15 19:34:57	acdw	but yes paper we should :) I will start on a list and put it somewhere
2020-06-15 19:35:00	xq	the table is actually looking very usable
2020-06-15 19:35:09	acdw	that was my first thought xq
2020-06-15 19:35:24	xq	i really like the QTextDocument feature
2020-06-15 19:35:31	xq	it's near-perfect for our application of small internet
2020-06-15 19:35:40	xq	enough features with hyperlinking, tables, lists, paragraphs
2020-06-15 19:35:44	paper	I thought something like querying the API and parsing it into a usable format
2020-06-15 19:35:48	xq	but it's not a ultra-slow web renderer
2020-06-15 19:36:11	acdw	that could work paper
2020-06-15 19:38:53	dkibi	julienxx, tomasino I found a creative commons gamebook, will try to gemify later and see how well it works
2020-06-15 19:39:05	dkibi	http://gametale.eu/
2020-06-15 19:40:43	@julienxx	dkibi: Cool! Moar games!
2020-06-15 19:41:30	dkibi	it's very child oriented, but I think it might make a good test how well that can work
2020-06-15 19:43:15	acdw	oh this looks like a lot of fun!
2020-06-15 20:08:32	xj9	i want to enable cgi on sunshinegardens.org, but idk when i'll get to it
2020-06-15 20:12:11	paper	tomasino: it seems like jetforce only executes scripts in server's cgi-bin, not in user's cgi-bin :(
2020-06-15 20:12:42	@tomasino	ahha
2020-06-15 20:12:49	@tomasino	cool beans
2020-06-15 20:12:51	@tomasino	good to know
2020-06-15 20:13:46	@tomasino	i don't think jetforce even has userdirs
2020-06-15 20:13:53	@tomasino	i faked it on black with symlinks
2020-06-15 20:14:25	paper_	aha xD
2020-06-15 20:14:51	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-15 20:20:49		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 20:40:19	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 20:48:34	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-15 21:08:12	xq	mhj, still there?
2020-06-15 21:39:37		solderpunk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-15 21:45:05	dkibi	oh gnah that game book is ND
2020-06-15 21:46:33	xq	ND?
2020-06-15 21:51:20	dkibi	no-derivative
2020-06-15 21:52:03	dkibi	it seems to still be possible to convert format, but I think taking some abandond gamebook by a long dead publisher is probably a better idea xD
2020-06-15 21:52:28	dkibi	or developing creative writting skills, but that will take longer
2020-06-15 21:53:02	mhj	I'm here xq
2020-06-15 21:53:05	xq	\o/
2020-06-15 21:53:13	⚡	xq is setting something up for the community!
2020-06-15 21:53:27	mhj	I'm on like IRC, Discord, Telegram and tildetown lol
2020-06-15 21:53:33	mhj	All at the same time
2020-06-15 21:53:53	acdw	oh I'm excited xq!
2020-06-15 21:54:26	mhj	Sounds good xq, can't wait to see it
2020-06-15 21:54:31	xq	hehe
2020-06-15 21:54:38	xq	it will be a new gemini host
2020-06-15 21:54:38	acdw	dkibi: I'm working on adapting my short choosable-path story to gemini, just want to add some sahweet ascii art
2020-06-15 21:54:49	xq	serving up a file where a single sentence is written
2020-06-15 21:54:56	xq	"Your client works"
2020-06-15 21:54:58	xq	*grin*
2020-06-15 21:55:50	xq	but there's a catch
2020-06-15 21:56:02	xq	it will recreate its certificate and key pair all 5 minutes
2020-06-15 21:58:17	dkibi	acdw:
2020-06-15 21:58:23	dkibi	\o/
2020-06-15 21:58:35	mhj	You know what would rock? A gemini client that could run on the pinebookpro/pinephone etc
2020-06-15 21:58:53	acdw	mhj: isn't that any client in a scripting language that compiles for ARM?
2020-06-15 21:58:58	acdw	at least the pro
2020-06-15 21:58:58	mhj	And a server for the Pine A64
2020-06-15 21:59:01	mhj	Ahhhh
2020-06-15 21:59:03	mhj	True
2020-06-15 21:59:04	acdw	*pinebook pro
2020-06-15 21:59:32	acdw	dkibi: I'll let you know when it's up! I just have to type it up basically. I'd love to get started on some more.
2020-06-15 22:08:38		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-15 22:34:34	xq	aaand it's done!
2020-06-15 22:34:35	xq	gemini://tofu-tester.random-projects.net:1966/
2020-06-15 22:36:59	makeworld	Cool
2020-06-15 22:37:06	makeworld	How long are the certs for?
2020-06-15 22:37:51	xq	the cert is created for 24h
2020-06-15 22:37:55	@tomasino	they're good for 1000 years, but have a half-life that is triggered every time they're used. 0.o
2020-06-15 22:37:57	xq	but!
2020-06-15 22:37:59	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-15 22:38:37	xq	the server is restarted every 5 minutes, alternating between an RSA and an ECDSA key
2020-06-15 22:38:39	@tomasino	(don't listen to me)
2020-06-15 22:38:44	@tomasino	omg
2020-06-15 22:38:55	xq	which means: TEST YOUR CLIENTS
2020-06-15 22:39:00	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-15 22:39:01	acdw	oh this is evil -- will test soon!
2020-06-15 22:39:10	@tomasino	brilliant
2020-06-15 22:39:14	xq	easy solution
2020-06-15 22:39:23	xq	and a lot of client writers need this :D
2020-06-15 22:39:48	acdw	thanks :)
2020-06-15 22:39:51		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-15 22:42:40	xq	also: Kristall master has now primitive support for TOFU
2020-06-15 22:42:49	@tomasino	huzzah
2020-06-15 22:42:49	xq	and improved client certificate management
2020-06-15 22:43:04	xq	yeah, it starts to get there :)
2020-06-15 22:43:47	xq	disclaimer: highly experimental and not well tested :D
2020-06-15 22:44:12	makeworld	I'm discussing TOFU with solderpunk on the ml right now
2020-06-15 22:44:19	makeworld	So be aware that it is subject to change
2020-06-15 22:44:32	makeworld	Both common methods of hashing cert and storing public key are bad
2020-06-15 22:44:44	makeworld	But afaik storing the cert has less change of breaking
2020-06-15 22:45:02	xq	yeah i'm aware of that
2020-06-15 22:45:16	xq	imho storing the pubkey is the right way (as SSH does this as well)
2020-06-15 22:45:39	xq	but we now have a test vector available to test implementations against :)
2020-06-15 22:45:55	xq	which is the main point of tofu-tester D:
2020-06-15 22:48:08	xq	but now: gn8!
2020-06-15 22:53:24	makeworld	The problem is that a lot of setups will change priv key all the time
2020-06-15 22:53:33	makeworld	See ya!
2020-06-15 22:55:09	makeworld	Or if the key gets compromised
2020-06-15 23:00:15	makeworld	Does anyone have an idea why most of the time the client torture test redirects fail on my client with EOF, but sometimes it works?
2020-06-15 23:00:50	makeworld	Like as in when I click the redirect link, most of the time I get an error indicating that the header could not be read because of EOF
2020-06-16 00:32:49		Nalaph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-16 00:33:56	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 06:27:02		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-16 06:27:05	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 06:30:45	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 07:06:03	xq	hey makeworld
2020-06-16 07:06:18	xq	can you tell me what torture test you're using and which fails in particular?
2020-06-16 07:11:32		solderpunk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-16 07:15:57	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 08:06:27	`epochbot	I just came up with a better idea for the infinite-data thing. instead of piping it directly in, I'll just fork off the process that writes the connection to the cached file.
2020-06-16 08:07:00	`epochbot	so it'd be like: curl link > file & launch file
2020-06-16 08:07:22	`epochbot	hrm... maybe.
2020-06-16 08:07:35	`epochbot	I dunno
2020-06-16 08:07:54	xq	hey `epochbot
2020-06-16 08:08:02	`epochbot	the launcher would need to specifically check for EOF and then ignore that and keep going
2020-06-16 08:08:03	`epochbot	hi
2020-06-16 08:08:25	`epochbot	until I had some way of checking that the "curl"-like thing had finished
2020-06-16 08:09:04	`epochbot	maybe launch <(curl link > file)
2020-06-16 08:14:13	▬▬▶	krixano has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 08:14:26		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-16 08:14:28	krixano	Hello!
2020-06-16 08:14:43	xq	hey krixano
2020-06-16 08:15:46	krixano	I started, and mostly finished, a new thing for Gemini yesterday - A YouTube Interface for Gemini
2020-06-16 08:15:59	xq	yeah, i've read that already, but didn't try
2020-06-16 08:16:51	krixano	For anybody else who hasn't seen, it's here: gemini://pon.ix.tc:1965/cgi-bin/youtube.cgi
2020-06-16 08:17:03	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 08:17:16	krixano	You're the developer of kristall xq?
2020-06-16 08:17:37	xq	yeah!
2020-06-16 08:18:19	krixano	It's an *amazing* browser! I was actually going to make my own gemini browser, but now that I've seen yours, I'm not sure that I need to, lol
2020-06-16 08:19:14	xq	thanks ♥
2020-06-16 08:19:46	xq	and it keeps getting better!
2020-06-16 08:19:58	krixano	I did get an error with the very latest commit, btw
2020-06-16 08:20:02	xq	working on some internal stuff atm, restructuring and unifing protocol handlign
2020-06-16 08:20:12	xq	can you pull and retry?
2020-06-16 08:20:16	krixano	Something about QSsl::Dh not being a thing.
2020-06-16 08:20:24	xq	oh
2020-06-16 08:20:38	⚡	xq is upset about Qt Versions :D
2020-06-16 08:20:48	krixano	I have qt 5.12
2020-06-16 08:21:04	krixano	That's what's in the official Pop-Os (Ubuntu?) repos right now.
2020-06-16 08:21:06	xq	damn. i just made a fix for Qt 5.13 :D
2020-06-16 08:21:24	xq	yeah, building against bleeding edge isn't probably the best idea
2020-06-16 08:21:38	xq	i'll fetch an older Qt version later and try developing against 5.13 or so
2020-06-16 08:23:26	xq	crazy…
2020-06-16 08:23:36	xq	when all the refactoring is done
2020-06-16 08:23:46	xq	Kristall will (hopefully) also support HTTPS with client certificates :D
2020-06-16 08:24:24	krixano	I wonder what people in geminispace think about the DNS over TLS stuff...
2020-06-16 08:24:36	xq	you mean DNS via HTTPS?
2020-06-16 08:25:06	xq	the thing mozilla proposed/uses?
2020-06-16 08:25:06	krixano	There's DNS over TLS and then there's DNS over HTTPS. They're different I believe.
2020-06-16 08:25:12	xq	ah
2020-06-16 08:25:19	krixano	Chrome is getting support for it also, I'm pretty sure.
2020-06-16 08:25:27	xq	hm
2020-06-16 08:25:30	krixano	It's a thing mozilla proposed?
2020-06-16 08:25:35	xq	not sure
2020-06-16 08:25:36	xq	i'm not happy about that…
2020-06-16 08:26:02	krixano	Why?
2020-06-16 08:26:11	xq	it removes freemdom from the user
2020-06-16 08:26:18	krixano	How?
2020-06-16 08:26:19	xq	and i don't gain a huge benefit
2020-06-16 08:26:30	xq	i'm running a pihole in my place which serves as an in-network ad-blocker
2020-06-16 08:26:45	xq	resolving all ad-service-domains to a site that yield 404
2020-06-16 08:27:05	xq	it works around anti-adblockers pretty well
2020-06-16 08:27:22	xq	i also need ways to redirect domain names via /etc/hosts
2020-06-16 08:27:22	krixano	I like it because my fishy ISP doesn't get to see everything I'm browsing, lol.
2020-06-16 08:27:38	xq	so, it's a practical thing for me
2020-06-16 08:27:41	xq	and now on the ISP thing
2020-06-16 08:27:49	xq	they see what you're surfing on anyways ;)
2020-06-16 08:27:55	xq	you know reverse-dns?
2020-06-16 08:29:01	krixano	I thought DoH was supposed to prevent ISPs from seeing what domains you're visiting?
2020-06-16 08:29:16	xq	it prevents them from seeing the conrecte domain you're visiting
2020-06-16 08:29:27	xq	but it doesn't prevent them from seeing the IPs you visit
2020-06-16 08:29:38	xq	and most servers have one or two domains serving
2020-06-16 08:29:41	xq	so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-06-16 08:29:42	krixano	Right, yeah, that makes sense
2020-06-16 08:29:46	xq	and:
2020-06-16 08:29:51	xq	what provider are you using then?
2020-06-16 08:30:04	xq	do you trust google/cloudflare more than your own ISP?
2020-06-16 08:30:23	krixano	Yes, I *do* trust cloudflare more than CableOne
2020-06-16 08:30:29	xq	ouch :D
2020-06-16 08:30:32	xq	(for cableone)
2020-06-16 08:30:48	krixano	Oh wait... they're called "SparkLight" now, lol
2020-06-16 08:30:59	xq	how i see that: why should be provide google/cloudflare with *all* our surfing data
2020-06-16 08:31:11	xq	they don't need to use trackers anymore
2020-06-16 08:31:18	krixano	You can change what DoH provider you're using though
2020-06-16 08:31:24	krixano	It's right in firefox settings
2020-06-16 08:31:33	xq	how many providers are out there that are trustworthy?
2020-06-16 08:31:53	`epochbot	I trust my ISP more than cloudflare
2020-06-16 08:32:16	xq	if you don't trust your ISP, you don't have trust in your network connection at all
2020-06-16 08:33:28	krixano	Sure, which is why I'm trying to keep an eye on mesh networking and related things...
2020-06-16 08:33:39	`epochbot	if I'm going to try to hide stuff from my ISP I'll use tor
2020-06-16 08:33:41	krixano	(like Cjdns)
2020-06-16 08:34:48	`epochbot	oh boy, mesh networking and related things. :)
2020-06-16 08:35:43	krixano	I used to be involved in the ZeroNet project, and that's where I was introduced to Cjdns, Tor, i2p, etc.
2020-06-16 08:36:11	`epochbot	I only played with zeronet a little bit
2020-06-16 08:36:20	xq	i have used i2p for a while
2020-06-16 08:36:29	xq	it's really well done, and works quite good
2020-06-16 08:36:36	xq	should set up some node again one time
2020-06-16 08:37:07	`epochbot	what about dn42 and chaosvpn?
2020-06-16 08:37:11	krixano	ZeroNet is *really* good and has lots of potential, but it's very web-focused, and while it doesn't have commercial stuff, it still has the grossness of the web-stack behind it's sites. It doesn't *have* to though... I created a plugin with someone else to support the gopher protocol in it, and it worked.
2020-06-16 08:37:41	krixano	(it worked until ZeroNet moved over to Python 3, that is)
2020-06-16 08:38:29	krixano	Also, there's certain parts of the community that were.... too much for me
2020-06-16 08:41:45	krixano	The GUS search engine is *so* much better than Veronica2, lol
2020-06-16 08:48:06	thombles	so good
2020-06-16 08:48:42	thombles	I liked the part of cjdns about trying to create links that are not on the regular internet
2020-06-16 08:51:16	xq	hmm
2020-06-16 08:51:37	xq	what are two good error names for ssl failures
2020-06-16 08:51:58	xq	one would be "untrusted host" which is for a host we've never encountered before and we don't trust (because reasons)
2020-06-16 08:52:20	xq	and the other one is that we re-visit a server and it is now mistrusted
2020-06-16 08:52:26	xq	(TOFU identitifcation changed)
2020-06-16 08:56:30	thombles	"I am obligated to tell you that something has gone wrong but you're going to click the button below anyway"
2020-06-16 08:57:20	xq	kek
2020-06-16 08:57:26	xq	yeah, kinda
2020-06-16 08:58:48	thombles	I hope somebody makes a super sassy client
2020-06-16 08:59:20	thombles	Like every interaction is negotiating with glados
2020-06-16 08:59:58	tadzik	"This certificate has expired. Just like everyone you've ever known"
2020-06-16 09:00:02	thombles	lol
2020-06-16 09:00:26	tadzik	this could be implemented as a custom locale :)
2020-06-16 09:01:10	`epochbot	en_AI
2020-06-16 09:02:04	tadzik	or AL, for Aperture Labs
2020-06-16 09:02:22	tadzik	I want to get off Mr Johnson's wild ride
2020-06-16 09:03:18	styan	"This site is now untrusted.  Do you want this client to behave in a secure manner?  [Y/n]"
2020-06-16 09:03:44	`epochbot	:)
2020-06-16 09:04:39	thombles	More seriously I think I would try to say it how it is. "A certificate has changed. If you think it's likely that your internet connection is under attack beware, but they might have just changed their settings"
2020-06-16 09:04:44	`epochbot	heh. was thinking it'd be funny if the dialogs that some things used for "make sure the finger prints match out of band..."
2020-06-16 09:04:51	`epochbot	would sometimes give fake fingerprints
2020-06-16 09:04:54	tadzik	hahaahh
2020-06-16 09:04:57	`epochbot	then give you hell
2020-06-16 09:05:09	tadzik	"Got you. You can't be trusted. I'll make decisions from now on"
2020-06-16 09:05:13	`epochbot	"WTF?!? THESE DON'T MATCH"
2020-06-16 09:05:27	`epochbot	"DID YOU EVEN READ THEM?"
2020-06-16 09:05:51	thombles	"HEX DOESN'T EVEN GO TO 'J'"
2020-06-16 09:05:59	`epochbot	:)
2020-06-16 09:07:09	tadzik	"Ha-ha, fool! Latin I is not the same as Persian <something>!"
2020-06-16 09:07:13	thombles	I did make something for that actually
2020-06-16 09:07:21	thombles	I thought it was stupid as heck that humans have to compare strings so I made this https://github.com/thombles/hashgood
2020-06-16 09:07:22	xq	<thombles> I hope somebody makes a super sassy client
2020-06-16 09:07:41	xq	"I told you that you should refresh your client certificate now and then. Now it's expired. You fool."
2020-06-16 09:07:59	krixano	xq, this is the error I'm getting:
2020-06-16 09:07:59	`epochbot	I guess it could generate 3 other fingerprints that are similar and make you pick which one it is.
2020-06-16 09:08:14	tadzik	that's nice
2020-06-16 09:08:33	krixano	../src/trustedhostcollection.cpp: In member function ‘virtual QVariant TrustedHostCollection::data(const QModelIndex&, int) const’:
2020-06-16 09:08:34	krixano	../src/trustedhostcollection.cpp:70:24: error: ‘Dh’ is not a member of ‘QSsl’
2020-06-16 09:10:00	xq	can you try again?
2020-06-16 09:11:10	thombles	C++ is the master of sass
2020-06-16 09:12:00	thombles	well, the compiler specifically
2020-06-16 09:12:48	xq	heh
2020-06-16 09:12:52	xq	true
2020-06-16 09:13:48	tadzik	I thought sass is something from CSS, not C++ :P
2020-06-16 09:14:10	krixano	It worked this time!
2020-06-16 09:14:13	krixano	Thanks xq!
2020-06-16 09:14:43	xq	\o/
2020-06-16 09:14:47	xq	two bugs fixed already :)
2020-06-16 09:15:01	xq	while having over 50 compiler errors on my end :D
2020-06-16 09:16:35	xq	new version is gonna be good :)
2020-06-16 09:16:43	xq	(0.3)
2020-06-16 09:16:50	xq	the error page will be improved a lot
2020-06-16 09:19:10	xq	ah well, pretty much everything will improve
2020-06-16 09:21:05	dkibi	does anyone escape using a ZERO WIDTH SPACE?
2020-06-16 09:23:59	tadzik	I break emojis with it on platforms that force them
2020-06-16 09:24:21	▬▬▶	dancek has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 09:27:14	xq	dkibi: great idea actually :D
2020-06-16 09:28:39	dkibi	someone asked on the mailinglist how people escape, and imho that would be a semantically appropiate way to do it. it's hard to do by hand though, but I doupt that escaping without having a preformated block is common in hand authored content
2020-06-16 09:33:37	kensanata	dkibi: I don't like doing it because it confuses people who copy & paste.
2020-06-16 09:33:49	kensanata	But yeah, I've used zero width spaces in the past... and I'm sorry.
2020-06-16 09:34:07	dkibi	oh right
2020-06-16 09:34:12	dkibi	good point
2020-06-16 09:35:38	dkibi	one of the really useful features of word was that little button to show all the invisible characters, I want that for my text editor
2020-06-16 09:36:06	dkibi	(when editing gmi texts I often accidentally break lines)
2020-06-16 09:37:47	⚡	thombles adds quote support
2020-06-16 09:39:19	dkibi	xD
2020-06-16 11:21:06		dancek has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 12:06:52	▬▬▶	dancek has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 12:10:30		dancek has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 12:29:55		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-16 13:13:13	~tiwesdaeg	xq: since I love compiling kristall on multiple OS's I always find new issues
2020-06-16 13:13:27	~tiwesdaeg	debian buster: https://ttm.sh/QnN.txt
2020-06-16 13:14:33	@tomasino	just pulled on Ubuntu 18.04 and ran make and got: https://ttm.sh/QnH.txt
2020-06-16 13:15:01	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: I fixed that
2020-06-16 13:15:35	~tiwesdaeg	llibqt5svg5 and libqt5svg5-dev
2020-06-16 13:15:51	~tiwesdaeg	minus that first l
2020-06-16 13:16:12	~tiwesdaeg	I just installed both and it made it past
2020-06-16 13:17:08	@tomasino	thanks
2020-06-16 13:17:27	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: what version do you get when when you type 'g++ --version'?
2020-06-16 13:17:40	@tomasino	g++ (Ubuntu 7.5.0-3ubuntu1~18.04) 7.5.0
2020-06-16 13:17:57	~tiwesdaeg	ok, so I have a newer version
2020-06-16 13:18:10	~tiwesdaeg	let me know if you get an error like I did
2020-06-16 13:18:12	@tomasino	new errors! https://ttm.sh/Qng.txt
2020-06-16 13:18:32	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-16 13:18:35	@tomasino	looks like the same thing
2020-06-16 13:18:37	~tiwesdaeg	very similar to mine
2020-06-16 13:18:47	@tomasino	i only uploaded 2>
2020-06-16 13:19:18	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not at home to try this out on manjaro
2020-06-16 13:19:33	~tiwesdaeg	which is the most like xq's build environment
2020-06-16 13:19:39	@tomasino	i can do make 2>&1 | less, but not make 2>&1 | pb
2020-06-16 13:19:40	@tomasino	not sure why
2020-06-16 13:20:07	@tomasino	i enjoy doing this for xq. happy to help make the build safer
2020-06-16 13:20:09	~tiwesdaeg	I don't even know what that is ;P
2020-06-16 13:20:32	~tiwesdaeg	the 2>&1 part
2020-06-16 13:20:44	@tomasino	redirects standard error back into stdout
2020-06-16 13:20:51	@tomasino	so you can pipe both to the next command
2020-06-16 13:20:54	@tomasino	and not just the stdout
2020-06-16 13:21:47	~tiwesdaeg	pretty neat
2020-06-16 13:22:36	@tomasino	i can just do $ make &> error.txt && pb error.txt
2020-06-16 13:22:40	@tomasino	less awesome, but works
2020-06-16 13:22:54	@tomasino	hrm..
2020-06-16 13:22:57	⚡	tomasino tries something
2020-06-16 13:23:11	@tomasino	nope
2020-06-16 13:23:57	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/Qna.txt
2020-06-16 13:24:04	@tomasino	make &> error.txt; pb error.txt
2020-06-16 13:24:06	@tomasino	not &&
2020-06-16 13:28:50	xq	tiwesdaeg: build env is arch linux, so yes, manjaro
2020-06-16 13:29:10	xq	the buster error message is related to an outdated G++ that  doesn't support C++17
2020-06-16 13:29:21	xq	so it looks like i have to work around those features :(
2020-06-16 13:29:39	~tiwesdaeg	Also Ubuntu LTS
2020-06-16 13:29:57	~tiwesdaeg	Which has an even older version
2020-06-16 13:30:06	xq	which LTS version?
2020-06-16 13:30:12	~tiwesdaeg	18.04
2020-06-16 13:30:15	@tomasino	18.04 here
2020-06-16 13:30:28	@tomasino	i'm waiting for canonical to roll out the 20.04 update on this machine
2020-06-16 13:30:32	@tomasino	next month, i believe
2020-06-16 13:31:27	xq	hm, i have the 20.04 here, but it built there (some time ago)
2020-06-16 13:32:16	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 13:35:22	~tiwesdaeg	what version of g++ is needed?
2020-06-16 13:35:45	~tiwesdaeg	buster is using 8.3.0
2020-06-16 13:37:27	xq	ah
2020-06-16 13:37:29	xq	libstdc++ 7.1
2020-06-16 13:38:30	~tiwesdaeg	I generally don't like to run testing as it is often missing a bunch of packages
2020-06-16 13:38:50	~tiwesdaeg	and sid just needs so much updating, it feels like arch ;P
2020-06-16 13:38:55	xq	is libstdc++ 7.1 in debian testing?!
2020-06-16 13:39:48	~tiwesdaeg	10.1.0-3
2020-06-16 13:40:06	xq	hm
2020-06-16 13:40:09	xq	that should work, then
2020-06-16 13:40:41	~tiwesdaeg	it's not in buster
2020-06-16 13:41:26	xq	damn
2020-06-16 13:41:26	⚡	tiwesdaeg upgrades slowly to testing
2020-06-16 13:41:40	xq	so no C++17 is probably a good decision
2020-06-16 13:42:43	~tiwesdaeg	https://packages.debian.org/buster/libstdc++-8-dev
2020-06-16 13:42:49	~tiwesdaeg	I found that
2020-06-16 13:43:16	xq	if it works with that, we can add this as a dependency
2020-06-16 13:43:18	~tiwesdaeg	should that cover it?
2020-06-16 13:43:22	xq	yeah
2020-06-16 13:43:26	xq	i'm also thinking about providing an AppImage file
2020-06-16 13:43:30	~tiwesdaeg	I'll install and see what happening
2020-06-16 13:43:38	xq	would make installation for non-codes way easier
2020-06-16 13:43:57	~tiwesdaeg	already installed
2020-06-16 13:44:46	xq	dang
2020-06-16 13:46:47	~tiwesdaeg	you may end up with more users who run debian stable
2020-06-16 13:47:17	xq	yeah
2020-06-16 13:47:35	xq	i want to make Kristall a nice display of "how to properly do cross-platform" development
2020-06-16 13:49:41	~tiwesdaeg	ok, sources.list updated, now the long process of upgrading
2020-06-16 13:49:53	~tiwesdaeg	I'm on a 1.5kbit line here
2020-06-16 13:50:08	xq	noooo :D
2020-06-16 13:50:11	xq	don't do that for me :D
2020-06-16 13:50:45	~tiwesdaeg	haha, I mess with this computer all the time
2020-06-16 13:50:51	~tiwesdaeg	it was just running openbsd last week
2020-06-16 13:50:56	xq	oh :D
2020-06-16 13:51:20	~tiwesdaeg	I was mad at the openbsd packaging system
2020-06-16 13:51:36	xq	every packaging system is kinda bad :D
2020-06-16 13:52:36	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like openbsd just expects you to resolve your own issues
2020-06-16 13:53:06	~tiwesdaeg	netbsd had some weird issues with the graphics card
2020-06-16 13:53:23	~tiwesdaeg	and so I'm back with the old default
2020-06-16 14:03:52	~tiwesdaeg	woo 18% complete
2020-06-16 14:06:02	wgreenhouse	tiwesdaeg: ooc, is .pink on bare metal, or a VPS?
2020-06-16 14:06:18	~tiwesdaeg	VPS
2020-06-16 14:06:29	⚡	wgreenhouse nods
2020-06-16 14:06:48	~tiwesdaeg	it's hosted on ben's big honking box
2020-06-16 14:07:39	@ben	yeah it's a vm on my dedi
2020-06-16 14:15:53	xq	ben: are you the ben that wrote me an email? :D
2020-06-16 14:16:02	@ben	about?
2020-06-16 14:16:06	@ben	uh i don't think so
2020-06-16 14:16:08	xq	Kristall
2020-06-16 14:16:08	xq	:D
2020-06-16 14:17:04	@ben	if i did i don't recall sending anything lol
2020-06-16 14:17:10	@ben	was it from ben@tilde.team ?
2020-06-16 14:19:21	xq	no, other mail :D
2020-06-16 14:19:30	xq	was just curious
2020-06-16 14:21:52	@ben	there are plenty of bens out there :)
2020-06-16 14:23:25	xq	yeah true
2020-06-16 14:23:39	xq	but the numbers of bens involved in gemini are less plenty :D
2020-06-16 14:23:59	@ben	smaller venn diagramm
2020-06-16 14:27:11	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 14:27:15	@tomasino	ben diagram
2020-06-16 14:27:24	@ben	hehe
2020-06-16 14:28:10	@tomasino	I was on a call on Friday that had 5 James'!
2020-06-16 14:28:20	xq	good morning solderpunk
2020-06-16 14:31:00	solderpunk	Hello everybody.
2020-06-16 14:31:12	@ben	woah nice tomasino
2020-06-16 14:31:14	@ben	james party
2020-06-16 14:31:17	solderpunk	Good news!  I have solved all problems with Gemini applications simultaneously and the future will be glorious :p
2020-06-16 14:31:18	@ben	hola!
2020-06-16 14:31:26	@tomasino	Yaaaay!
2020-06-16 14:31:32	@ben	down with problems!
2020-06-16 14:31:39	@tomasino	Problems can suck it
2020-06-16 14:31:39	solderpunk	Currently writing up a massive post to Corned Beef Sandwiches which I will post later tonight.
2020-06-16 14:31:51	solderpunk	Your gemini streaming idea features heavily, Tomasino!
2020-06-16 14:32:00	@tomasino	Oooh, yay me!
2020-06-16 14:32:10	solderpunk	And it also tries to deal with the CSRF stuff currently happening on the mailing list!
2020-06-16 14:33:09	solderpunk	And it even helps people write smaller, simpler clients, so people who just want to write a tool to read text don't get crushed under the weight of fiddly application stuff.
2020-06-16 14:34:02	xq	looking forward to reading it
2020-06-16 14:34:13	solderpunk	I really hope it is well received.
2020-06-16 14:34:18	solderpunk	But we'll see
2020-06-16 14:34:27	xq	"let's remove TLS" :D
2020-06-16 14:34:33	companion_cube	yessss
2020-06-16 14:34:52	companion_cube	"let's build on top of git"
2020-06-16 14:34:56	solderpunk	lol
2020-06-16 14:35:02	⚡	ben receive-pack
2020-06-16 14:35:09	companion_cube	fact: content addressed is simpler ;)
2020-06-16 14:35:23	companion_cube	(ok ok I might be exagerating)
2020-06-16 14:35:36	xq	"don't use URLs, use the shasum of the resource you want to receive"
2020-06-16 14:35:37	xq	:D
2020-06-16 14:35:52	companion_cube	exactly
2020-06-16 14:36:00	xq	ohno :
2020-06-16 14:36:15	companion_cube	well you could have urls that redirect to actual blobs
2020-06-16 14:36:23	companion_cube	versioning for free!
2020-06-16 14:36:23	xq	data://…
2020-06-16 14:36:23	xq	:D
2020-06-16 14:36:37	companion_cube	git is simple because of that
2020-06-16 14:36:41	companion_cube	:)
2020-06-16 14:37:17	xq	true
2020-06-16 14:38:06	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 14:38:10	dkibi	the ham radio people will be happy about removing TLS
2020-06-16 14:39:32	@tomasino	but what about blockchain! *farting noises*
2020-06-16 14:40:34	@tomasino	https://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/
2020-06-16 14:40:36	companion_cube	git is good blockchain! :p
2020-06-16 14:49:41	kensanata	If you make such changes, you should design your own protocol. May I suggest Gemaxi instead of Gemini.
2020-06-16 14:50:16	~tiwesdaeg	let's call it scorpio
2020-06-16 14:50:23	dkibi	so there are a ton of esoteric proramming languages? are there esotereic protocols?
2020-06-16 14:50:25	~tiwesdaeg	scorpio:// looks sexy
2020-06-16 14:51:38	dkibi	every request must contain a short poem
2020-06-16 14:51:43	dkibi	the response must contain a paradox
2020-06-16 14:52:02	kensanata	I guess HTTP/1.1 would qualify.
2020-06-16 14:52:16	companion_cube	kensanata: clearly it'd be a different thing :)
2020-06-16 14:52:37	solderpunk	kensanata: I literally realised today or yesterday, I forget, for the *very first time* that "Gemini" has "mini" in it.
2020-06-16 14:53:17	kensanata	The poetry might be better, with mandatory quality levels as assigned by the Shakesbear Academy. 🐻🐻
2020-06-16 14:53:32	kensanata	solderpunk: Hah!
2020-06-16 14:54:05	kensanata	solderpunk: Actally, if you squint really hard, you'll see that there is a tiny wiki inside trying to get out, too!
2020-06-16 14:54:27	kensanata	I guess you have to believe it.
2020-06-16 14:54:43	solderpunk	Haha!
2020-06-16 14:55:04	⚡	kensanata goes off and creates a #titan channel.
2020-06-16 14:56:42	kensanata	What I've been thinking... If upload is a separate Titan protocol, and the Gemini protocol is fixed, then we can basically use our own error codes and conveniently place them into the Gemini ranges, for extra development joy.
2020-06-16 14:57:08	kensanata	I did laugh out loud when I saw the mail about YouTube being in Gemini.
2020-06-16 14:57:17	kensanata	IS THERE NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE!?
2020-06-16 14:57:38	kensanata	Including YouTube comments, no less.
2020-06-16 14:57:49	solderpunk	I have to admit, I absolutely do not see the appeal of being able to read YouTube comments in Gemini.
2020-06-16 14:58:00	kensanata	Or anywhere!
2020-06-16 14:58:01	companion_cube	"because why not"
2020-06-16 14:58:06	solderpunk	Ha, indeed!
2020-06-16 14:58:13	solderpunk	Like, of *all* the things to import from the web...
2020-06-16 14:58:30	dkibi	I found it frustrating to link to the web all the time I wanted to add references to my little log yesterday, so the more mirrors the better ^^
2020-06-16 14:58:31	companion_cube	quick, someone do facebook!
2020-06-16 14:58:49	solderpunk	Hey, if people want it and can make use of it, more power to them.
2020-06-16 14:59:46	dkibi	related: I really like to have paragraph [relevant links] paragraph [relevant links] etc.
2020-06-16 14:59:47	kensanata	Yeah. You can have YouTube, Facebook and Instagram, BUT THOU SHALT NOT UPLOAD!
2020-06-16 15:00:22	kensanata	dkibi: That reminds me of purple numbers, and it's implementation in some wikis. Lovely idea that never took off.
2020-06-16 15:01:28	kensanata	Gah, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Numbers redirects to the Doug Engelbart page which doesn't mention them.
2020-06-16 15:02:05	xq	dkibi: you can always serve text/x-markdown
2020-06-16 15:02:43	kensanata	I see that Eugene put up his purple wiki code: https://github.com/eekim/purplewiki -- "PurpleWiki is a WikiWikiWeb that adds purple numbers to paragraphs, headers, lists, and other fine-grained elements on a Wiki page. These numbers can be used to create links to these specific elements."
2020-06-16 15:02:58	kensanata	xq: How does that help?
2020-06-16 15:03:05	dkibi	xq: no I mean, I like doing this, which works quite well with text/gemini, over inline link
2020-06-16 15:03:40	xq	kensanata: markdown allows more features than text/gemini
2020-06-16 15:03:43	kensanata	Hm, you have a client that implements this?
2020-06-16 15:03:48	xq	*grins*
2020-06-16 15:04:03	companion_cube	what *is* a purple number?!
2020-06-16 15:04:40	xq	kensanata: i have another "torture test" in the making: gemini://random-projects.net/torture/
2020-06-16 15:04:50	kensanata	xq: Of course, but I thought dkibi was talking about the ability to link to textual passages inside documents, like we do in paper when we refer to paragaphs and articles in law codes, for example. That, to me, is a feature that requires a client that can follow such links.
2020-06-16 15:05:03	xq	ah
2020-06-16 15:05:08	xq	then i misunderstood
2020-06-16 15:06:12	kensanata	companion_cube: Back then, it looked like faint purple numbers at the end of every paragraph, providing a permalink, so if you wanted, you could link to every single block level element (not words but list items, paragraphs, headers) and the like. Like many content management systems these days make headings linkable because they have a working TOC at the top of the page.
2020-06-16 15:06:37	kensanata	companion_cube: The wiki would simply create these links dynamically.
2020-06-16 15:06:47	companion_cube	hmmm, so like path components inside a page itself?
2020-06-16 15:06:55	kensanata	companion_cube: Yeah.
2020-06-16 15:07:04	dkibi	good that the specs are frozen otherwise we could define # to link to a line xD
2020-06-16 15:07:20	kensanata	🙈
2020-06-16 15:07:45	xq	just noticed again how elegant emojis are actually implemented inside unicode
2020-06-16 15:08:10	lickthecat	lol
2020-06-16 15:08:11	xq	use "golfer" + "dark skin modifier" + "female symbol" => "dark-skinned female golfer" emoji appears
2020-06-16 15:08:19	xq	yeah, it's kind just ligatures
2020-06-16 15:08:21	xq	^^
2020-06-16 15:08:31	xq	where two "characters" merge into a single thing
2020-06-16 15:08:51	companion_cube	same for é made from ' and e
2020-06-16 15:09:10	xq	yeah
2020-06-16 15:15:50	@tomasino	i had suggested #<line-nr> on the ML, but it didn't get any love. People like the python solution better
2020-06-16 15:16:30	dkibi	what's the python solution?
2020-06-16 15:17:15	companion_cube	hmm, idempotence doens't mean edition is impossible
2020-06-16 15:17:23	companion_cube	just that edition is a idempotent patch
2020-06-16 15:18:04	@tomasino	lowercase the characters in the line and replace non ascii chars with -, if i recall
2020-06-16 15:19:00	xq	tomasino: yeah, that's more robust ;)
2020-06-16 15:19:47	companion_cube	making a slug?
2020-06-16 15:22:02	acdw	I like the slug approach, since it allows for editing of content -- otherwise you'd have a ton of off-by-one errors when adding or removing lines (basically any editing)
2020-06-16 15:23:02	xq	yep
2020-06-16 15:32:25	~tiwesdaeg	xq: upgraded still having the same issue
2020-06-16 15:32:29	~tiwesdaeg	g++ (Debian 9.3.0-13) 9.3.0
2020-06-16 15:32:33	xq	hm
2020-06-16 15:32:39	xq	looks like i have to get more HW
2020-06-16 15:32:44	xq	to test more
2020-06-16 15:32:51	~tiwesdaeg	or just a VM
2020-06-16 15:33:18	@ben	the date picker for the cert tool was being wonky for me
2020-06-16 15:33:23	@ben	i wasn't able to create a cert
2020-06-16 15:33:29	@ben	re: kristall
2020-06-16 15:33:30	@tomasino	yeah, it's a slug, but it takes more institutional knowledge of how to construct than a line number
2020-06-16 15:33:36	@tomasino	that's why i didn't favor it
2020-06-16 15:34:38	acdw	absolutely right on the more complicated front, but I think it's a necessary complication
2020-06-16 15:35:26	xq	<tiwesdaeg> or just a VM
2020-06-16 15:35:30	xq	remaining disk space: 6GB
2020-06-16 15:35:47	xq	ben: can you make a screenshot or video?
2020-06-16 15:35:47	~tiwesdaeg	a really small VM
2020-06-16 15:35:57	acdw	could be `sed -e 's/[^A-Za-z0-9_]/-/g' -e 's/--+/-/g'`
2020-06-16 15:36:01	@ben	xq: yeah sure thign
2020-06-16 15:36:06	xq	<3
2020-06-16 15:36:27	acdw	could be `sed -e 's/[^A-Za-z0-9_]/-/g' -e 's/--+/-/g' | tr [A-Z] [a-z]` actually
2020-06-16 15:37:46	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 15:37:48	@ben	what is the group parameter
2020-06-16 15:38:00	krixano	I'm gonna point out that YouTube Comments aren't actually working on the gemini interface yet, mostly because they aren't very important. I don't care about youtube comments, but some people might, idk
2020-06-16 15:38:34	@tomasino	it would be awesome if you could find a service that generates random compliments and just pull in a group of them to the bottom of every video
2020-06-16 15:38:39	@ben	ah this is likely to be my font choice
2020-06-16 15:38:41	@ben	https://ttm.sh/QnO.png
2020-06-16 15:39:05	xq	ben: "Group" is a certificate group to your liking
2020-06-16 15:39:10	@ben	i didn't realize the group was required
2020-06-16 15:39:11	xq	like "Games" or "Accounts"
2020-06-16 15:39:18	@ben	i was able to create it
2020-06-16 15:39:46	@ben	looks like in this case the picker just wasn't scaling to the width required by my font
2020-06-16 15:39:59	xq	ah
2020-06-16 15:40:08	krixano	However, what I do think is important is the access to all the videos on YouTube, from educational videos, programming videos, talks, news, etc. And to have an interface that just gets you directly to the video without all the annoyingness is cool! Also, you don't need a web browser just to search YouTube anymore, so this helps with terminal-only users.
2020-06-16 15:40:31	@tomasino	complements as a service: https://complimentr.com/
2020-06-16 15:41:45	@ben	xq: the rest of the fields scale to the width of the window when you resize, but the date picker doesn't - must be some default behavior for that ui control
2020-06-16 15:41:49	krixano	YouTube is a **very** different thing from Instagram and Facebook. YouTube actually has useful content on it, lmao
2020-06-16 15:42:22	companion_cube	if you just ignore the comments
2020-06-16 15:42:30	companion_cube	to keep your sanity
2020-06-16 15:42:41	krixano	The plan was the put comments on a separate page so they're easier to ignore
2020-06-16 15:43:02	krixano	I could just not do comments though, I suppose...
2020-06-16 15:43:11	@ben	probably just don't
2020-06-16 15:43:21	@ben	don't make it easy to view that garbage
2020-06-16 15:44:35	krixano	The two main things I want to do next is a direct download link instead of the YT video link, and using the certificate stuff for storing subs (separate from YT account).
2020-06-16 15:44:53	makeworld	xq: Is that a cert UX?
2020-06-16 15:45:03	makeworld	The pic Ben sent I mean
2020-06-16 15:45:04	makeworld	Impressive
2020-06-16 15:45:05	xq	makeworld: yeah
2020-06-16 15:45:11	@ben	you could likely manage the subscriptions via rss feeds
2020-06-16 15:45:15	xq	i wanted to do some videos about Kristall usage
2020-06-16 15:45:15	makeworld	Woah nice
2020-06-16 15:45:21	@ben	i think yt still provides rss feeds
2020-06-16 15:45:23	makeworld	That'd be cool to have
2020-06-16 15:45:30	@ben	i don't remember how to record a screencast lol
2020-06-16 15:45:31	xq	<ben> i think yt still provides rss feeds
2020-06-16 15:45:32	xq	it does
2020-06-16 15:45:39	xq	there's a nice tool called "peek"
2020-06-16 15:45:41	makeworld	I'm still working on other things in my  client but personally I want to wait for the spec to finalize that sort of
2020-06-16 15:45:44	@ben	i wonder how long  until google kills that lol
2020-06-16 15:45:45	xq	or OBS for the larger stuff
2020-06-16 15:45:45	⚡	lickthecat peeks at xq
2020-06-16 15:45:46	makeworld	It seems a bit unsure right now
2020-06-16 15:46:00	⚡	xq feels peeked by lickthecat 
2020-06-16 15:46:14	xq	makeworld: yeah, nontheless it's good to test that stuff out
2020-06-16 15:46:22	makeworld	Yeah for sure
2020-06-16 15:48:09	krixano	I mean... I explicitly say in my email that comments aren't done, so I don't honestly know where people got the idea that it "includes YouTube comments, no less"
2020-06-16 15:48:12	xq	i really like the UX of Kristall Certificate flow
2020-06-16 15:48:26	xq	there's still problems in there (like: you should be asked to keep the certificate enabled when switching hosts)
2020-06-16 15:48:35	xq	but afar from that, it's really convenient
2020-06-16 15:48:46	xq	especially transient certificates are "single-click" solution
2020-06-16 15:49:36	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I added -std=c++17 to cxxflags and it got past there
2020-06-16 15:49:51	~tiwesdaeg	now I'm working on an openssl error
2020-06-16 15:49:55	xq	oh, maybe your qt-version doesn't do this *facepalm*
2020-06-16 15:50:38	krixano	YT was the first thing I made an interface for because it was like 25% done from when I was doing it for Gopher, lol
2020-06-16 15:51:03	~tiwesdaeg	probably the issue with ubuntu as well
2020-06-16 15:51:05	krixano	It isn't even the first thing I imported from the web, which was Sefaria for Gopher.
2020-06-16 15:51:44	~tiwesdaeg	needed libssl-dev
2020-06-16 15:51:50	@tomasino	i still think a compliments section instead of the comments section would be awesome
2020-06-16 15:51:51	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKEJEFcV4Hw
2020-06-16 15:52:14	xq	<tiwesdaeg> needed libssl-dev
2020-06-16 15:52:20	xq	oh yeah, there's an issue to add that to the README
2020-06-16 15:52:23	xq	should do that soon
2020-06-16 15:53:26	~tiwesdaeg	got it to compile
2020-06-16 15:54:03	~tiwesdaeg	so yeah, I don't much about qt5 and c++, but stack exchange came to the rescue again
2020-06-16 15:54:11	krixano	Yeah, that's a cool idea. I'll probably do that instead. Thanks tomasino! You make youtube videos, right? So clearly not everything is bad on YT :)
2020-06-16 15:54:50	@tomasino	hahaha
2020-06-16 15:55:00	@tomasino	yep, not everything is terrible, but the comments certainly are
2020-06-16 15:55:25	krixano	Also: gemini://pon.ix.tc/cgi-bin/youtube.cgi?video&sKEJEFcV4Hw
2020-06-16 15:56:00	krixano	Well, there can rarely be some useful comments, like lyrics on music videos for example.
2020-06-16 15:56:16	@tomasino	:D!
2020-06-16 15:56:47	@tomasino	here's a good youtube link for a demo:
2020-06-16 15:56:52	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: in kristall/build/Makefile
2020-06-16 15:57:02	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoEI6VzybDk
2020-06-16 15:57:14	~tiwesdaeg	add -std=c++17 to the end of CXXFLAGS
2020-06-16 15:57:28	makeworld	I get a CGI error on Youtube comments
2020-06-16 15:57:35	krixano	I really need to get the direct download link thing working. Then it'd basically be finished. Oh, I also wanted to do captions download
2020-06-16 15:57:38	~tiwesdaeg	see if it builds for you then
2020-06-16 15:57:39	krixano	Because it isn't done yet
2020-06-16 15:57:44	krixano	(the comments)
2020-06-16 15:57:56	makeworld	Oh ok
2020-06-16 15:58:11	krixano	And it won't be done, because I've changed my mind. I'm going to do what tomasino suggested :)
2020-06-16 15:58:42	@tomasino	muahahahaha!!!!
2020-06-16 15:58:47	@tomasino	i mean, great decision!
2020-06-16 15:59:10	krixano	Also, it might be less work for me anyways, lol
2020-06-16 16:00:14	makeworld	Wait what is the idea?
2020-06-16 16:00:44	krixano	My other ideas for more web-to-gemini interfaces were Sefaria (Jewish scriptures & commentaries), GitHub, GitLab, Bitbucket, Peertube
2020-06-16 16:01:42	@tomasino	love it
2020-06-16 16:01:45	krixano	I also wanted to ask a few people I know online for permission to create a geminispace (is that what it's being called... the equivalent to a site or gopherhole?) for HandmadeNetwork and Odin
2020-06-16 16:02:17	acdw	I've been using *capsule* but it's not really nailed down
2020-06-16 16:02:18	~tiwesdaeg	capsule
2020-06-16 16:02:27	~tiwesdaeg	I think it is at this point
2020-06-16 16:02:33	@tomasino	I know blog->phlog->gemlog
2020-06-16 16:02:41	@tomasino	i was using gemspace. I'll start using capsule
2020-06-16 16:03:09	krixano	I didn't use gemlog because that's log-related. HMN and Odin are less of a log and more of just websites.
2020-06-16 16:04:05	krixano	makeworld the idea was to autogenerate random nice comments at the bottom of each video
2020-06-16 16:04:15	makeworld	Oh I see haha
2020-06-16 16:04:17	@tomasino	there, my capsule is update to refer to it as a capsule
2020-06-16 16:04:40	acdw	Someone was trying to make 'nilog' (as in, gemi NI log) a thing
2020-06-16 16:05:04	acdw	fun fact: the astronauts on the Gemini mission pronounced it jemiknee
2020-06-16 16:05:08	paper	the knights who say ni?
2020-06-16 16:05:15	acdw	lol I mean yes
2020-06-16 16:05:19	paper	nice xD
2020-06-16 16:05:35	krixano	If we're following the same lenition that happened with phlog (goPHer LOG), then it could be Nlog :D
2020-06-16 16:05:38	acdw	I almost called my browser "cricket" because of that
2020-06-16 16:05:47	acdw	menlog
2020-06-16 16:05:55	acdw	melog
2020-06-16 16:05:57	krixano	(because the syllabic "r" sound after ph was removed)
2020-06-16 16:06:10	acdw	mog
2020-06-16 16:06:25	acdw	as far as -log is concerned, I like glog
2020-06-16 16:06:36	acdw	easiest to pronounce imo
2020-06-16 16:06:37	@tomasino	glog is still used on gopher by some people
2020-06-16 16:06:41	acdw	ahh
2020-06-16 16:06:49	acdw	omg escape pod
2020-06-16 16:06:51	acdw	or pod
2020-06-16 16:06:54	acdw	no.. podcast
2020-06-16 16:06:55	@tomasino	solderpunk did a poll on the gemlog thing a while back
2020-06-16 16:06:55	acdw	:/
2020-06-16 16:07:11	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-16 16:07:13	@tomasino	podcast!
2020-06-16 16:07:15	@tomasino	perfect
2020-06-16 16:07:17	krixano	I kinda like Nlog, but that's because I like weird names, lol. But Gemlog is good too imo
2020-06-16 16:07:29	krixano	Ooh... do we have any podcast interface for Gemini yet?
2020-06-16 16:07:30	acdw	oh nice! I hope it's understood I'm totally joking with these names> I really don't care what it's called
2020-06-16 16:07:41	@tomasino	minilog
2020-06-16 16:07:49	acdw	oh that'd be real nice krixano . but it'd just be an atom feed right?
2020-06-16 16:07:53	acdw	fed over gemini
2020-06-16 16:08:09	krixano	I don't really like rss/atom feeds, tbh, lol
2020-06-16 16:08:24	makeworld	They're pretty simple I think
2020-06-16 16:08:36	krixano	You can usually get more information by plugging directly into an api
2020-06-16 16:08:39	@tomasino	can be, if you're scripting stuff
2020-06-16 16:08:41	makeworld	It's just XML, but with links, times and excerpts of posts
2020-06-16 16:09:00	acdw	launchlog? CHLOG? nchlog?
2020-06-16 16:09:02	companion_cube	rss is so useful who cares if it's ugly xml?
2020-06-16 16:09:03	@tomasino	i'm running my capsule 100% by hand in vim without any scriptitudes
2020-06-16 16:09:04	makeworld	The posts/entries could be videos, blog posts, podcasts, etc
2020-06-16 16:09:32	makeworld	Real Geminauts just respond to all requests by hand
2020-06-16 16:09:41	makeworld	Write status codes in real time
2020-06-16 16:09:51	acdw	Also podcasts are just RSS feeds with audio attachments
2020-06-16 16:09:57	krixano	Geminauts?
2020-06-16 16:09:58	@tomasino	i just sit on a port listener and respond to requests manually in real time
2020-06-16 16:10:03	acdw	I'm writing a telephone-operated gemini client
2020-06-16 16:10:06	lickthecat	lol tomasino
2020-06-16 16:10:16	krixano	I thought you had to link to the audio file? You can attach binary files to rss?
2020-06-16 16:10:19	makeworld	krixano: Yes
2020-06-16 16:10:23	companion_cube	feeling geminaughty tonight
2020-06-16 16:10:33	makeworld	Shoot idk about that question krixano
2020-06-16 16:10:34	acdw	^_-
2020-06-16 16:10:43	makeworld	I meant yes to Geminauts
2020-06-16 16:10:44	@tomasino	podcasts have the audio as links
2020-06-16 16:10:51	krixano	Right.
2020-06-16 16:11:28	krixano	And I guess you can dynamically generate rss feeds, can you...
2020-06-16 16:11:33	krixano	* can't
2020-06-16 16:11:52	krixano	Also, what's the distinction between rss and atom?
2020-06-16 16:11:52	makeworld	Yeah, no one really writes them by hand
2020-06-16 16:12:00	acdw	mission log!!!
2020-06-16 16:12:06	makeworld	Atom is a similar but different format created to be better lol
2020-06-16 16:12:11	companion_cube	I think atom is an update of rss
2020-06-16 16:12:14	companion_cube	oh well
2020-06-16 16:12:16	krixano	I mean like, I can dynamically generate a feed based on your stored subs, for example, and everyone's would be different
2020-06-16 16:12:27	companion_cube	blog generators produce them and it works
2020-06-16 16:12:28	acdw	You *can* write them by hand; it's just kind of a pain, like writing HTML by hand
2020-06-16 16:13:15	acdw	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_(Web_standard)#Example_of_an_Atom_1.0_feed
2020-06-16 16:13:20	acdw	^ is the basic format
2020-06-16 16:13:36	@tomasino	in the very early 2000s my blog was an RSS feed with an XSLT layer on top to render it in internet explorer
2020-06-16 16:13:45	@tomasino	i wrote directly in the XML 
2020-06-16 16:13:58	acdw	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287 << the good stuff
2020-06-16 16:13:59	krixano	Do any gemini clients support saving atom/rss feeds yet?
2020-06-16 16:14:12	@tomasino	subscribing, you mean?
2020-06-16 16:14:18	krixano	Yeah, subscribing
2020-06-16 16:14:23	@tomasino	i don't think so
2020-06-16 16:14:27	@tomasino	but there's capcom
2020-06-16 16:14:35	@tomasino	you can run it yourself and have a private feed
2020-06-16 16:14:43	@tomasino	you could put it behind a client-cert auth area too
2020-06-16 16:14:48	krixano	But a client should honestly do this, imo
2020-06-16 16:14:56	@tomasino	oh yes, it would be a lovely feature
2020-06-16 16:15:16	krixano	I might be making a new client, I'm not sure yet.
2020-06-16 16:15:28	@tomasino	cosmic has a RSS feed if you want to use that for testing
2020-06-16 16:15:32	@tomasino	many others have ATOM
2020-06-16 16:15:40	@tomasino	Atom?
2020-06-16 16:15:42	@tomasino	not all caps
2020-06-16 16:15:44	@tomasino	whatever it is
2020-06-16 16:15:52	krixano	The only thing I would not be looking forward to is parsing xml, lol
2020-06-16 16:16:01	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-16 16:16:20	makeworld	There's likely already a library for parsing the feed specifically
2020-06-16 16:16:30	makeworld	But yeah this would be a great feature for a client, wow
2020-06-16 16:16:36	acdw	I *know* python has an atom parser
2020-06-16 16:16:42	makeworld	Adding it to my roadmap ;)
2020-06-16 16:16:48	companion_cube	all languages have at least a xml parser anyway
2020-06-16 16:16:57	krixano	Also, it's technically possible to stream videos from gemini, right?
2020-06-16 16:17:01	krixano	(or audio)
2020-06-16 16:17:08	companion_cube	if you don't need to seek :p
2020-06-16 16:17:16	krixano	Right, yeah, that's true
2020-06-16 16:17:44	krixano	But streaming as it's downloading is better than having to wait, imo. As long as you can cancel it anytime
2020-06-16 16:17:54	companion_cube	you can do both
2020-06-16 16:18:00	makeworld	You'll have to use a format that's designed for streaming obv
2020-06-16 16:18:01	companion_cube	deliver chunks
2020-06-16 16:18:13	companion_cube	http has functionalities for that…
2020-06-16 16:18:22	companion_cube	(deliver a range of the content)
2020-06-16 16:19:27	krixano	Is there any protocol specifically designed for streaming video files like this?
2020-06-16 16:19:59	companion_cube	bittorrent? :D
2020-06-16 16:20:11	companion_cube	(not really, since it's not ordered, but you can kind of force it I think)
2020-06-16 16:20:12	xq	probably rtp?
2020-06-16 16:20:14	companion_cube	(cf popcorntime)
2020-06-16 16:20:19	krixano	Also, it'd be cool if clients supported some way to link into applications, like VLC for example - then I can just have my gemini capsule link to vlc with the youtube video link
2020-06-16 16:20:34	paper	xdg-open is supported in some clients
2020-06-16 16:20:46	makeworld	krixano: Definitely there are protocols for streaming
2020-06-16 16:20:52	makeworld	RTMP maybe
2020-06-16 16:21:00	paper	I have a custom xdg-open script which handles youtube URLs etc
2020-06-16 16:21:08	makeworld	But also HTTP works with any video file designed for streaming
2020-06-16 16:21:36	krixano	No, I mean, being able to do something like "vlc://youtubevideolink" or something like that...
2020-06-16 16:21:42	makeworld	krixano: Better to let the client decide about stuff like that
2020-06-16 16:21:56	companion_cube	indeed, just give a mime type
2020-06-16 16:22:00	makeworld	It will recognize it's a video file and then try and decide what to do
2020-06-16 16:22:10	paper	that's much better
2020-06-16 16:22:10	krixano	I don't know how to form links like that, :)
2020-06-16 16:22:39	makeworld	Wdym? Just link to the video file
2020-06-16 16:22:40	krixano	YouTube doesn't let you directly link to the video file though... or, it's not easily accessible
2020-06-16 16:22:45	makeworld	Oh yeah
2020-06-16 16:22:54	makeworld	You're out of luck there
2020-06-16 16:23:15	krixano	VLC can actually take youtube video page links.
2020-06-16 16:23:20	krixano	I wonder how they do that...
2020-06-16 16:23:23	makeworld	You could try linking to some frontend service like invidious maybe
2020-06-16 16:23:35	makeworld	Maybe they use youtube-dl?
2020-06-16 16:23:44	makeworld	youtube-dl can give you a direct video link
2020-06-16 16:23:49	paper_	mpv calls youtubd-dl to get the link
2020-06-16 16:24:03	krixano	Does youtube-dl have a library/api?
2020-06-16 16:24:04	makeworld	But it isn't portable, the link is unique to your IP address, browser, etc
2020-06-16 16:24:13	makeworld	It's only valid for a certain amount of time too
2020-06-16 16:24:21	makeworld	krixano: CLI and python lib
2020-06-16 16:24:30	makeworld	But again, the link won't be portable so there's no point
2020-06-16 16:24:37	makeworld	Sorry
2020-06-16 16:24:38	krixano	Right, I was just going to see if I could transfer over the download coming in on my server to gemini
2020-06-16 16:24:43	makeworld	Ooh
2020-06-16 16:24:49	makeworld	Sounds possible
2020-06-16 16:24:57	makeworld	https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/
2020-06-16 16:25:03	makeworld	It's a great tool btw
2020-06-16 16:25:35	krixano	I wish it wasn't in python though
2020-06-16 16:26:27	makeworld	I think Python probably made this project possible, because of how quick dev can be
2020-06-16 16:26:47	makeworld	And bc it's nice to use to work with changing APIs, string manipulation, etc
2020-06-16 16:28:24	krixano	Yeah, idk. I don't really believe that python is quicker to develop in than other languages.
2020-06-16 16:29:11	xq	tiwesdaeg: what distro did you compile on and what did you install?
2020-06-16 16:29:28	krixano	I'm mostly waiting on Odin language to get arm support (my server runs on a rpi), then I'm completely switching to that.
2020-06-16 16:29:49	krixano	(I'm using golang until then, even though it's slow as hell)
2020-06-16 16:30:59	makeworld	How is it slow?
2020-06-16 16:31:13	~tiwesdaeg	xq Debian and kristall
2020-06-16 16:31:36	~tiwesdaeg	Or what extras?
2020-06-16 16:31:38	krixano	It's slow to both compile and run, because of it's big (and slow) runtime.
2020-06-16 16:31:45	xq	well, kristall is clear, but i meant the extras
2020-06-16 16:32:13	paper_	runtime? golang is a compiled language
2020-06-16 16:32:15	companion_cube	krixano: oh you did mean Odin the language? oh stable is that these days?
2020-06-16 16:32:24	companion_cube	paper_: there's still a runtime with the GC and stuff
2020-06-16 16:32:40	makeworld	I've found Go very quick to compile
2020-06-16 16:32:47	makeworld	In comparison to something like RUst
2020-06-16 16:32:49	makeworld	*Rust
2020-06-16 16:33:04	krixano	Well sure, everything is faster than Rust, :D
2020-06-16 16:33:04	paper_	really? they are statically linked executables if you are not using cgo
2020-06-16 16:33:07	ℹ 	julienxx_ is now known as julienxx
2020-06-16 16:33:07	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-16 16:33:18	~tiwesdaeg	A bunch of at stuff
2020-06-16 16:33:25	makeworld	Yes but there's still something that runs to manage things
2020-06-16 16:33:28	~tiwesdaeg	QT
2020-06-16 16:33:36	krixano	molly-brown on my server can take from 1.5 to 3 seconds to load, while gophernicus takes much much much less than that.
2020-06-16 16:33:37	makeworld	Like when you use `runtime.GOOS` paper_
2020-06-16 16:33:42	companion_cube	paper_: that's not what runtime means :)
2020-06-16 16:33:53	companion_cube	(I mean, yeah, it's linked with the rest)
2020-06-16 16:34:15	paper_	? ok then, it's probably my mistake
2020-06-16 16:34:44	companion_cube	even C has a runtime, at least on PC (with malloc and stdio in it)
2020-06-16 16:34:50	krixano	Also, I've developed UI applications in golang, and input was incredibly slow.
2020-06-16 16:34:51	companion_cube	a tiny one though, nothing like java or python
2020-06-16 16:35:07	companion_cube	krixano: so why Odin and not zig? :)
2020-06-16 16:35:10	krixano	Idk if it was the libraries, if it was the whole channel stuff, something
2020-06-16 16:35:16	krixano	Because Odin is *really* good.
2020-06-16 16:35:51	krixano	And I don't need to experiment with Zig, because I found something that I'm fine with, lol So there's not actually a reason
2020-06-16 16:36:10	companion_cube	question is, which one will get to a mature point?
2020-06-16 16:36:16	xq	Bill is a nice guy :)
2020-06-16 16:36:27	krixano	Yeah, he's really nice
2020-06-16 16:36:51	krixano	I've heard Odin is much more stable than Zig, but I don't have first-hand experience with that. All I know is I have literally *zero* problems with Odin.
2020-06-16 16:37:24	krixano	I started working on a new project, called "iond" (the name will change later). It uses Sdl.
2020-06-16 16:37:36	krixano	(also, to clarify, it's written in Odin)
2020-06-16 16:38:20	~tiwesdaeg	I'm out right now
2020-06-16 16:38:38	krixano	There's also this Visual FX thing that's written in Odin, let me see if I can find it...
2020-06-16 16:38:38	companion_cube	is there a Odin community ? a LSP? I'm genuinely curious
2020-06-16 16:38:43	~tiwesdaeg	I'll look and see when I get back
2020-06-16 16:38:48	krixano	There's a discord server. I'm on there.
2020-06-16 16:39:03	krixano	https://discord.gg/Uu7WNG
2020-06-16 16:39:37	krixano	The visual fx software I was talking about is being made for enterprise.
2020-06-16 16:39:54	companion_cube	welp, I hate discord, but oh well
2020-06-16 16:40:35	xq	yeah, Bill is quite active on Discord
2020-06-16 16:40:45	xq	he's also in the Zig discord, discussing fancy topics
2020-06-16 16:40:55	krixano	xq, are you on the Odin discord?
2020-06-16 16:41:08	xq	nah
2020-06-16 16:41:23	xq	i'm happy with zig and i kinda don't like Odins syntax
2020-06-16 16:41:23	companion_cube	is there a timeline for odin 1.0?
2020-06-16 16:42:06	krixano	There's a roadmap, but it doesn't have 1.0 on it yet. gingerbill is almost done with the new llvm c api backend I think
2020-06-16 16:42:28	krixano	https://odin-lang.org
2020-06-16 16:42:37	krixano	https://github.com/odin-lang/odin
2020-06-16 16:43:01	krixano	I *love* Odin's syntax.
2020-06-16 16:43:11	krixano	Odin's syntax isn't that different from Zig, is it?
2020-06-16 16:43:31	companion_cube	it's more go-like it seems
2020-06-16 16:43:35	companion_cube	are there sum types?
2020-06-16 16:44:04	companion_cube	ah, tagged union
2020-06-16 16:44:07	krixano	Idk... you can ask the odin discord about that. I am somewhat new to Odin, about a month ago
2020-06-16 16:44:10	companion_cube	*sigh of relief*
2020-06-16 16:44:23	krixano	Yeah, there's tagged unions, which are useful
2020-06-16 16:44:50	companion_cube	although the whole Go vibe… meh :/
2020-06-16 16:45:03	krixano	What's wrong with that?
2020-06-16 16:45:18	companion_cube	it's full of (imho) bad ideas :p
2020-06-16 16:45:25	companion_cube	zero values, nil, all that
2020-06-16 16:45:32	krixano	It's only like Go in syntax and the type system I think. Imo, it's a mix between C and Go
2020-06-16 16:46:13	krixano	I'm looking at Zig's syntax, and I absolutely hate it, lol
2020-06-16 16:46:43	krixano	nil has a limited use I believe
2020-06-16 16:47:46	krixano	nil for pointer, typeid, and "any" types.
2020-06-16 16:48:19	krixano	any types are an actual type, it's not saying any of Odin's types, just to clarify :)
2020-06-16 16:48:47	krixano	Also, not having nil for pointers is a *very* bad decision, imo
2020-06-16 16:48:54	companion_cube	I disagree, but well
2020-06-16 16:49:07	companion_cube	I think it's irresponsible to not have a non-nullable pointer type, let's say
2020-06-16 16:49:52	companion_cube	`Param_Union :: union(T: typeid) #no_nil {T, Error};` <-- well at least this seem decent
2020-06-16 16:49:54	companion_cube	seems*
2020-06-16 16:51:40	krixano	Honstly, gingerbill will be better able to explain to you about all of these decisions. He puts a *lot* of thought into the language
2020-06-16 16:54:09	krixano	Here's the thing I was tlaking about that's written in Odin: https://jangafx.com/software/embergen/
2020-06-16 16:54:27	companion_cube	so… people are using it, nice
2020-06-16 16:55:11	krixano	Yeah, I know many people who are using it :)
2020-06-16 16:56:38	companion_cube	interesting how there are lots of small bubbles like that
2020-06-16 17:00:16	krixano	Yeah, and many of the people from Odin are from the Handmade Network community, too
2020-06-16 17:01:13	companion_cube	what's that?
2020-06-16 17:01:30	krixano	https://handmade.network
2020-06-16 17:02:15	krixano	A community of people who want to improve the state of software, and know more about how the internals of computers work so that we can achieve this improvement
2020-06-16 17:02:37	companion_cube	ah well, a minimalist community, I see
2020-06-16 17:02:40	companion_cube	ok cool
2020-06-16 17:02:59	krixano	Mmmm... not necessarily
2020-06-16 17:04:54		solderpunk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-16 17:04:57	krixano	A lot of people like to develop things from scratch to either learn, or to improve, but you can still use libraries, etc. The main goal is to just make software not so freaking slow, I guess. Idk... there's slightly different ideas on what the Handmade Network Community is all about I guess. It'd be better you ask people on there I think
2020-06-16 17:05:20	companion_cube	well if there's an intersection with odin, I'll talk there first I imagine
2020-06-16 17:05:32	companion_cube	it's funny, there's also the sourcehut people in a similar vein
2020-06-16 17:06:22	krixano	There's also Future of Code, which a few people with HMN are aware of, but FoC is taking a different approach. HMN is more about less abstraction, and FoC wants to improve coding by  more abstraction, I think.
2020-06-16 17:06:42	krixano	FoC is on Slack
2020-06-16 17:07:01	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 17:07:01	krixano	https://join.slack.com/t/futureofcoding/shared_invite/zt-8vhwkhg2-rKZkVYJRKTwLbumJWVNaSw
2020-06-16 17:07:09		lickthecat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-16 17:07:10	krixano	Hello solderpunk!
2020-06-16 17:09:00	companion_cube	that they're on slack already tells me I don't want to look :p
2020-06-16 17:09:36	krixano	HMN came out of Handmade Hero, the tutorial series by Casey Muratori
2020-06-16 17:10:07	companion_cube	hum cool
2020-06-16 17:10:12	companion_cube	the guy who invented imgui right?
2020-06-16 17:10:15	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I think it was libssl-dev, qtbase5-dev, libqt5svg5, and libqt5svg5-dev
2020-06-16 17:10:17	companion_cube	(the imgui paradigm)
2020-06-16 17:10:18	krixano	Yeah
2020-06-16 17:10:51	~tiwesdaeg	I installed both of the svg packages at the same time
2020-06-16 17:10:55	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure if you need both
2020-06-16 17:11:02	kensanata	the backlog on this channel... is longer than I expected!
2020-06-16 17:11:28	acdw	yeah it's 🔥 this morning
2020-06-16 17:11:32	krixano	I thought libqt5svg5-dev would automatically install libqt5svg5, that's why I didn't put it in the readme in my PR
2020-06-16 17:11:37	companion_cube	yeah I like off topic :p
2020-06-16 17:12:09	~tiwesdaeg	we are currently tied with #envs for the 5th largest channel
2020-06-16 17:12:45	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: I'm sure you're right
2020-06-16 17:16:54	krixano	This astrobotany site is *really* cool!
2020-06-16 17:17:01	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 17:17:21		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 17:17:35	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 17:17:49		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 17:17:50	krixano	Oh, xq, I have a problem with unicode emojis not displaying, like on the astrobotany capsule
2020-06-16 17:18:00	krixano	(in Kristall)
2020-06-16 17:20:06	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: I find that is always a system issue
2020-06-16 17:20:50	krixano	Yeah, I know it's a system issue, because it works in tomasino's video
2020-06-16 17:20:51	~tiwesdaeg	I have had some weird stuff with netbsd
2020-06-16 17:21:06	~tiwesdaeg	do you have symbola installed?
2020-06-16 17:21:10	krixano	But I was just wondering if there was something I needed to install or something
2020-06-16 17:21:44	@tomasino	Disable experimental line markup if you have it on
2020-06-16 17:21:57	@tomasino	It screws up the unicode rendering
2020-06-16 17:22:26	~tiwesdaeg	I've got symbola font installed on debian and all the UTF-8 emoji seem to be working
2020-06-16 17:22:42	@tomasino	i was having issues with utf-8 rendering in all fonts until i disabled that setting
2020-06-16 17:22:44	krixano	Just installed symbola, and disabled the experimental thing, and I still have the problem
2020-06-16 17:22:55	@tomasino	then... yeah, system problem
2020-06-16 17:23:04	@tomasino	you restarted kristall, right?
2020-06-16 17:23:08	@tomasino	after changing fonts?
2020-06-16 17:23:17	krixano	I have to change the font too?
2020-06-16 17:23:29	@tomasino	what font do you have chosen?
2020-06-16 17:23:42	krixano	liberation sans atm
2020-06-16 17:24:01	@tomasino	that should do fine
2020-06-16 17:24:14	@tomasino	i'm using open sans if you want to be double-sure
2020-06-16 17:24:32	@tomasino	changing fonts requires a restart, for me at least
2020-06-16 17:25:31	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: what operating system?
2020-06-16 17:25:37	krixano	Pop os
2020-06-16 17:26:07	~tiwesdaeg	isn't that ubuntu based?
2020-06-16 17:26:11	krixano	Yeah
2020-06-16 17:26:42	@tomasino	pop is sexy
2020-06-16 17:26:58	~tiwesdaeg	so it should be pretty close to tomasino's setup
2020-06-16 17:27:10	@tomasino	mmhmm
2020-06-16 17:28:13	krixano	Switched to open sans, not working :(
2020-06-16 17:28:27	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-06-16 17:28:46	~tiwesdaeg	shouldn't applications register the new font right away?
2020-06-16 17:28:57	~tiwesdaeg	in this case, symbola
2020-06-16 17:29:21	kensanata	Added a gemini server for communitywiki.org... gemini://communitywiki.org:1966/do/index lists a bit more than 3000 pages.
2020-06-16 17:29:46	krixano	I also couldn't get the desktop file for Kristall working either
2020-06-16 17:29:59	@tomasino	the makefile didn't just install it properly for you?
2020-06-16 17:30:02	@tomasino	make install?
2020-06-16 17:30:22	krixano	Idk, but Kristall isn't listed in my applications
2020-06-16 17:30:54	krixano	I even manually copied the kristall file over. I also tried making my own desktop file for a different program, and that didn't work... so my system is all kinds of messed up, lol
2020-06-16 17:31:22	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: there is an included Makefile that works great
2020-06-16 17:31:39	krixano	I used the make file for building, I didn't realize there was an install option though
2020-06-16 17:31:44	~tiwesdaeg	no more needing to mkdir build and qmake and all that
2020-06-16 17:31:54	krixano	Oh....
2020-06-16 17:32:02	krixano	You mean the makefile in the root directory of the project
2020-06-16 17:32:12	~tiwesdaeg	git pull kristall address
2020-06-16 17:32:16	~tiwesdaeg	cd kristall
2020-06-16 17:32:19	~tiwesdaeg	make install
2020-06-16 17:32:27	~tiwesdaeg	you cna make clean too
2020-06-16 17:32:43	krixano	Well... that worked! Kristall's listed in my applications now!
2020-06-16 17:32:47	@tomasino	YAY
2020-06-16 17:33:04	⚡	tomasino does a makefile jig
2020-06-16 17:33:24	krixano	Could the problem have been because I put kristall in the path in .bashrc, but gnome wasn't seeing it
2020-06-16 17:33:35	acdw	krixano: yes
2020-06-16 17:33:46	krixano	Ok, good to know
2020-06-16 17:33:49	krixano	Thanks
2020-06-16 17:34:07	krixano	Still can't get this unicode working though. Is there some qt thing I need to install for it or something?
2020-06-16 17:34:18	krixano	*unicode emoji
2020-06-16 17:34:20	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 17:34:25	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure
2020-06-16 17:34:40	~tiwesdaeg	everything is displaying for me on debian and this is a pretty new install
2020-06-16 17:34:45	acdw	afaik .desktop files need to be in /usr/share/applications or ~/.local/share/applications
2020-06-16 17:34:59	@tomasino	they also work in /usr/local/share/applications
2020-06-16 17:35:02	acdw	tho I haven't had luck with ~/.local/share/applications on MATE, so IDK
2020-06-16 17:35:07	acdw	thanks tomasino
2020-06-16 17:35:10	krixano	Right, that's where I put the file
2020-06-16 17:35:22	krixano	But I didn't have the binary in path until .bashrc gets executed.
2020-06-16 17:35:42	acdw	oh so the .desktop file didn't know where to find kristall, I see
2020-06-16 17:35:54	krixano	I think that might have been the problem, idk
2020-06-16 17:36:04	acdw	It probably has an `Exec=kristall` line which means kristall will need to be in the PATH for that file
2020-06-16 17:36:13	krixano	Right
2020-06-16 17:36:13	acdw	which means for the X session
2020-06-16 17:36:20	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: maybe restart x/wayland or just your login session
2020-06-16 17:36:29	~tiwesdaeg	see if that fixes the emoji issue
2020-06-16 17:36:41	krixano	Ok, brb
2020-06-16 17:37:26	krixano	Ok, back!
2020-06-16 17:37:42	krixano	Did not work :(
2020-06-16 17:38:05	acdw	:(
2020-06-16 17:41:02	krixano	According to this archlinux bbs post, someone had to uninstal noto-fonts to get emojis working
2020-06-16 17:43:21		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-16 17:45:06	~tiwesdaeg	I've got noto-fonts installed
2020-06-16 17:45:25	krixano	Yeah, uninstalling it didn't do anything
2020-06-16 17:45:28	~tiwesdaeg	there is a noto-emoji package I think for arch
2020-06-16 17:46:29	krixano	I have fonts-noto-color-emoji installed
2020-06-16 17:46:39	~tiwesdaeg	xq: kristall text rendering question
2020-06-16 17:46:58	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://tilde.pink/ the first paragraph is displayed with large spacing
2020-06-16 17:47:15	~tiwesdaeg	the ones under News are not
2020-06-16 17:47:32	~tiwesdaeg	each one of those is one long line
2020-06-16 17:47:47	krixano	So, actually some emoji's do work... the pencil on tilde.pink works for me, for example. None of the others do though
2020-06-16 17:48:08	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: I had that same issue on openbsd
2020-06-16 17:48:45	~tiwesdaeg	it's like the programming isn't trying to use another font that can display the characters
2020-06-16 17:49:08	~tiwesdaeg	can you see them outside of kristall?
2020-06-16 17:49:19	krixano	I believe so
2020-06-16 17:49:21	~tiwesdaeg	📕
2020-06-16 17:49:44	krixano	Yeah, I see that
2020-06-16 17:49:48	krixano	And they work in firefox
2020-06-16 17:51:57	krixano	The gemini docs on tilde.pink say it uses jetforce, but in the news section, is says they switched to molly-brown
2020-06-16 17:52:06	~tiwesdaeg	https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/dap511/arch_linux_apps_not_displaying_emojis_correctly/
2020-06-16 17:52:12	~tiwesdaeg	I haven't updated it
2020-06-16 17:52:18	~tiwesdaeg	we're on gemserv now
2020-06-16 17:52:21	~tiwesdaeg	fast times
2020-06-16 17:52:21	krixano	Oh wait... you switched again!
2020-06-16 17:52:50	~tiwesdaeg	anyway, look at that fontconfig section
2020-06-16 17:52:50	krixano	Why did you switch, I'm wondering?
2020-06-16 17:53:07	~tiwesdaeg	gemserv had cgi working correctly early on
2020-06-16 17:53:16	~tiwesdaeg	and now we have cgi anywhere
2020-06-16 17:53:28	~tiwesdaeg	so my index.gmi is a cgi script
2020-06-16 17:53:32	krixano	Ah, yeah.
2020-06-16 17:53:39	@ben	same on tilde.team
2020-06-16 17:53:41	~tiwesdaeg	which is how I list users with gemini pages
2020-06-16 17:53:50	krixano	I was waiting for molly-brown to get cgi. It has cgi support now though.
2020-06-16 17:56:37	@julienxx	I’m running molly-brown on 9til.de with some CGI stuff. Works very well.
2020-06-16 17:57:01	krixano	Yeah, I use molly-brown for pon.ix.tc
2020-06-16 17:57:24	krixano	Hm.. 9til.de is giving me network errors
2020-06-16 17:58:06	@tomasino	lookin' good here
2020-06-16 17:58:26	~tiwesdaeg	hey, in the intro paragraph, it does say gemserv
2020-06-16 17:59:20	krixano	Yeah, I was talking about under documentation, then Gemini
2020-06-16 17:59:24	~tiwesdaeg	at least I did get around to updating something
2020-06-16 17:59:30		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 17:59:44	krixano	I might switch off of Pop os. I'm not sure I really care for it.
2020-06-16 18:00:12	krixano	How good is Houston search engine compared to GUS?
2020-06-16 18:00:28	krixano	This is my first time seeing it, it wasn't there last time I was on gemini I don't think
2020-06-16 18:01:06	wgreenhouse	wow, a plan9 tilde?
2020-06-16 18:01:09	wgreenhouse	two, even?
2020-06-16 18:02:00	~tiwesdaeg	there, I fixed it
2020-06-16 18:02:03	~tiwesdaeg	on gemini at least
2020-06-16 18:02:20	xq	<tiwesdaeg> xq: kristall text rendering question
2020-06-16 18:02:25	xq	not sure what creates this……
2020-06-16 18:02:32	xq	have to check out the generated document for that
2020-06-16 18:02:44	xq	gemserv is quite nice
2020-06-16 18:02:52	@julienxx	wgreenhouse: soon I hope :)
2020-06-16 18:02:56	~tiwesdaeg	it just seems kind of weird
2020-06-16 18:03:09	wgreenhouse	julienxx: neat :D
2020-06-16 18:03:29	⚡	wgreenhouse looks forward to having the chance to try to get drawterm running :D
2020-06-16 18:03:30	~tiwesdaeg	the line is actually created by a bunch of printf statements with the last one ending in a newline
2020-06-16 18:03:41	~tiwesdaeg	makes it easier to edit
2020-06-16 18:04:38	xq	tiwesdaeg it should not matter how it was created :D
2020-06-16 18:04:46	~tiwesdaeg	I know ;P
2020-06-16 18:06:02	xq	good :D
2020-06-16 18:06:49	~tiwesdaeg	xq: figured it out. I removed 🕶
2020-06-16 18:07:04	xq	oh
2020-06-16 18:07:14	xq	yeah that may create a larger character → increased line spacing
2020-06-16 18:07:18	~tiwesdaeg	so adding the UTF-8 character did it
2020-06-16 18:08:17	xq	nah, it's an emoji that did it
2020-06-16 18:08:18	xq	not utf-8
2020-06-16 18:08:55	~tiwesdaeg	so... I just need to add more emojis so all the lines are spaced the same ;P
2020-06-16 18:09:06	⚡	tiwesdaeg puts on his 🕶
2020-06-16 18:10:28	~tiwesdaeg	kristall feature request: User configurable text wrapping so I can fullscreen and read
2020-06-16 18:11:49	xq	hm?
2020-06-16 18:11:56	xq	you mean a max-width n the document?
2020-06-16 18:12:02	~tiwesdaeg	for paragraphs
2020-06-16 18:12:13	~tiwesdaeg	not block quotes
2020-06-16 18:12:17	xq	i have to look how to solve that
2020-06-16 18:12:21	xq	block quotes are also paragraphs ;)
2020-06-16 18:12:35	~tiwesdaeg	I meant the ``` lines
2020-06-16 18:12:49	xq	ah
2020-06-16 18:12:50	xq	preformatted
2020-06-16 18:12:54	~tiwesdaeg	there you go
2020-06-16 18:12:57	xq	yeah, those aren't word-wrapped anyways
2020-06-16 18:13:43	~tiwesdaeg	I've been slowly putting all my paragraphs on single lines to conform to the gemini standard
2020-06-16 18:14:02	~tiwesdaeg	it would be nice in the client to say, wrap at 85 characters
2020-06-16 18:16:03	krixano	Someone mentioned on the mailing list blockquote and preformatted text, so they gave an example that uses ``` with > inside. However, what if we did > ```?
2020-06-16 18:16:30	krixano	(oh... this irc client apparently does markdown!)
2020-06-16 18:19:35	xq	tiwesdaeg, there's no concept of 85 characters though ;) :D
2020-06-16 18:20:17	~tiwesdaeg	in gopher I wrapped everything manually
2020-06-16 18:20:57	xq	i can give you pixels or cm :D
2020-06-16 18:21:11	~tiwesdaeg	I'm sure you could take a string, split that string at the space closest to 85 characters, then evaluate string[1] for the same
2020-06-16 18:21:32	xq	that'S not how good text rendering works
2020-06-16 18:21:40	xq	this will give you a sawblade outline on the right side
2020-06-16 18:21:49	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-06-16 18:22:01	xq	using cm or pixels is better ;)
2020-06-16 18:22:09	xq	will work with non-monospaced fonts as well
2020-06-16 18:22:13	krixano	xq, it'd be cool to have justified text
2020-06-16 18:22:16	~tiwesdaeg	cm is easier to think in for text
2020-06-16 18:22:37	xq	i wanted to add ctrl+mousewheel for zoom anyways :D
2020-06-16 18:22:44	~tiwesdaeg	nice
2020-06-16 18:24:06	xq	my plan is to have Kristall look-and-feel like a modern day web browser
2020-06-16 18:24:09	xq	and not like Dillo :D
2020-06-16 18:24:11	wgreenhouse	a gemini client that renders like TeX, like a book with hyphenation and justified paragraphs, would be kind of neat
2020-06-16 18:24:24	xq	hehe
2020-06-16 18:24:33	xq	i can give you "inset" the first line paragraphs
2020-06-16 18:24:48	krixano	Also, Dropcaps!
2020-06-16 18:26:00	krixano	Oh, also, changing quotes to the fancier directional ones would be interesting.
2020-06-16 18:26:20	xq	Dropcaps?
2020-06-16 18:26:37	krixano	When you start a paragraph with a big letter. :D
2020-06-16 18:26:45	xq	oh yeah, that's neat
2020-06-16 18:26:49	xq	but you need long paragraphs for that
2020-06-16 18:26:55	krixano	Right, yeah
2020-06-16 18:52:06	krixano	xq, what are your goals with supporting http(x)? Is it going to be like a text-based browser, or are you planning on implementing CSS?
2020-06-16 18:52:17	krixano	* http(s)
2020-06-16 18:53:20	xq	well, http(s)-support doesn't imply CSS/HTML/JS/WASM support
2020-06-16 18:53:21	xq	;)
2020-06-16 18:53:40	krixano	Right, I know... but it looks like you are just taking the text out of HTML currently?
2020-06-16 18:53:47	xq	but: i also provide HTML-support without CSS/JS/WASM
2020-06-16 18:53:54	xq	for a "text-only" web experience
2020-06-16 18:54:05	xq	i would like to experiement a bit with some alternative markup languages
2020-06-16 18:54:13	xq	also using simple HTML will yield well-usable sites
2020-06-16 18:54:32	xq	visit https://mq32.de with Kristall and you'll see
2020-06-16 18:55:08	krixano	Sure, it can if the site is made to be usable.
2020-06-16 18:55:22	xq	yeah, that's the whole idea behind
2020-06-16 18:55:26	krixano	* ... made to be usable in that way
2020-06-16 18:55:32	xq	i don't want to support full web suite
2020-06-16 18:55:36	krixano	Right
2020-06-16 18:55:41	xq	but i want to support the text-web
2020-06-16 18:55:51	xq	all my sites are links-certified *grin*
2020-06-16 18:56:06	krixano	That's basically what I was asking. Thanks! :)
2020-06-16 18:56:09	xq	someone probably already made that a batch you can put on your site
2020-06-16 18:56:12	krixano	links-certified?
2020-06-16 18:56:19	xq	you know the links browser?
2020-06-16 18:56:32	krixano	Yes
2020-06-16 18:57:01	xq	there once was some badges like "works with chromium" or something like that
2020-06-16 18:57:15	xq	and i always "joke" that my sites also work with links
2020-06-16 19:00:11	krixano	Wasn't there a wikipedia for gemini, kinda like the gopher one?
2020-06-16 19:02:43	xq	hm
2020-06-16 19:04:20	krixano	Maybe there wasn't... I can't find it in GUS or the server list on gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-06-16 19:04:33	xq	ask GUS?
2020-06-16 19:08:19	krixano	I tried searching on GUS, but got a lot of results from alexshroeder's site, which show up blank.
2020-06-16 19:09:12	xq	:D
2020-06-16 19:10:33	@tomasino	i don't  remember one
2020-06-16 19:10:37		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 19:12:35	⚡	xq is happy
2020-06-16 19:12:41	xq	my refactoring of Kristall is going pretty well
2020-06-16 19:12:51	xq	unifying a lot of protocol handling, making it way easier to include more protocols in the future
2020-06-16 19:14:05	@tomasino	you were getting some fediverse love earlier
2020-06-16 19:14:17	@tomasino	people saw your client in my vid and were thirsting
2020-06-16 19:14:40	xq	neat!
2020-06-16 19:15:13	@tomasino	https://tiny.tilde.website/@rjt/104354233957668503
2020-06-16 19:22:15	krixano	His client is the best gopher and gemini client I've ever seen thus far
2020-06-16 19:24:03	krixano	xq, have you considered getting a github action working to automatically build binaries for Windows and Linux and Mac?
2020-06-16 19:24:23	companion_cube	there's no AUR for kristall :/
2020-06-16 19:25:21	@tomasino	and my axe, i mean... and not Apt!
2020-06-16 19:26:18	jan	and no freebsd port
2020-06-16 19:27:26	@tomasino	where'd we net out on ubuntu? do i need to upgrade g++?
2020-06-16 19:30:35	xq	tomasino: can you answer/ask ~rjt what DAT is?
2020-06-16 19:30:49	krixano	Ok, so I'm going to start working on a new project today for gemini.... it's a mirror of a clearnet site
2020-06-16 19:31:01	xq	krixano: i'm planning to do so, but i don't like the github actions thingy at all
2020-06-16 19:31:02	@tomasino	https://dat.foundation/
2020-06-16 19:31:19	xq	maybe i should do some other repo that does the building thing
2020-06-16 19:31:46	krixano	Yeah, I couldn't remember what the other word was, so I just used the term "github actions", but any auto-build thing would be cool
2020-06-16 19:31:50	@tomasino	it's like IPFS and stuff
2020-06-16 19:32:18	companion_cube	but does it work?
2020-06-16 19:32:24	@tomasino	DAT? yeah, it's functional
2020-06-16 19:32:33	krixano	Yeah, there's ZeroNet, DAT, IPFS, Beaker Browser, blockstack, Maid safe, Freenet, and Solid :)
2020-06-16 19:32:49	companion_cube	we could have a simpler one that is the gemini of dat/ipfs :p
2020-06-16 19:32:59	krixano	I actually did Gopher for ZeroNet
2020-06-16 19:33:01	companion_cube	addressed by sha256(content)
2020-06-16 19:33:05	krixano	But it doesn't work anymore
2020-06-16 19:33:24	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: in kristall/build/Makefile at the very end of the CXXFLAGS line add ' -std=c++17'
2020-06-16 19:33:33	@tomasino	i tried that, same error
2020-06-16 19:33:40	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-06-16 19:34:03	@tomasino	or no
2020-06-16 19:34:05	~tiwesdaeg	could be your g++ doesn't support C++17
2020-06-16 19:34:19	krixano	You use C++17 features?
2020-06-16 19:34:22	@tomasino	if i was in teh parent folder it didn't but now it's going
2020-06-16 19:34:36	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, it needs to be the build folder
2020-06-16 19:34:44	~tiwesdaeg	you can then run the parent make install again
2020-06-16 19:35:17	~tiwesdaeg	something about debian based systems is not including that flag?
2020-06-16 19:35:24	krixano	So, I get to try to convert markdown files into gemini files for my new project, which will be interesting.... shouldn't be too hard I don't think...
2020-06-16 19:35:26	xq	krixano: yeah i use some C++17
2020-06-16 19:35:28	krixano	Except for inline links
2020-06-16 19:35:55	@tomasino	adding in more #include <assert> things
2020-06-16 19:36:05	jan	krixano: https://pypi.org/project/md2gemini/
2020-06-16 19:36:45	~tiwesdaeg	what we really need is a markdown>gemini>markdown converter
2020-06-16 19:37:31	jan	and markdown to gophermap. sorry, wrong channel
2020-06-16 19:37:35	@tomasino	missing "optional" stuff left and right too
2020-06-16 19:37:47	@tomasino	../src/trustedhostcollection.hpp:37:10: error: ‘optional’ in namespace ‘std’ does not name a template type
2020-06-16 19:38:00	xq	it's either the include
2020-06-16 19:38:05	xq	or you need to rerun the makefile
2020-06-16 19:38:18	xq	go into the build dir and run make there
2020-06-16 19:38:35	@tomasino	that's running make inside build
2020-06-16 19:38:51	@tomasino	i added 3 or 4 assert includes before getting to this error
2020-06-16 19:40:39	xq	hmm *thinking*
2020-06-16 19:41:05	xq	oh, solderpunk published the blog entry!
2020-06-16 19:41:09	⚡	xq is now reading…
2020-06-16 19:44:04	@tomasino	oooh, nice
2020-06-16 19:44:11	@tomasino	gonna read once i'm off this call
2020-06-16 19:49:22	solderpunk	Oh, darn it, CAPCOM beat me to the announcement!
2020-06-16 19:49:33	solderpunk	Probbaly still some typos and things in there, lemme know.
2020-06-16 19:49:47	solderpunk	It's friggin' long, I realise.  It's idea dense.
2020-06-16 19:49:48	krixano	Hello solderpunk!
2020-06-16 19:50:19	@tomasino	stupid conference calls
2020-06-16 19:50:21	@tomasino	i wanna read it!
2020-06-16 19:50:48	xq	solderpunk: it looks like you've come to a similar conclusion than i am
2020-06-16 19:50:53	xq	<solderpunk> Oh, darn it, CAPCOM beat me to the announcement!
2020-06-16 19:50:56	xq	it was mere polling!
2020-06-16 19:51:02	xq	i just checked if you published your blog entry :D
2020-06-16 19:51:04	xq	and there it was
2020-06-16 19:51:46	solderpunk	Ah, okay.
2020-06-16 19:53:16	solderpunk	Announced it on the list.
2020-06-16 19:54:30	krixano	solderpunk, the cert idea, especially when used with cli apps, is one of the best ideas in gemini, imo
2020-06-16 19:55:28	xq	yep :)
2020-06-16 19:55:42	⚡	xq has plans in Kristall to solve some of the stuff you talked about
2020-06-16 19:55:44	solderpunk	I'm glad to hear it. :)
2020-06-16 19:56:00	krixano	Btw, I've changed my mine on YT comments :)
2020-06-16 19:56:02	xq	one is to disable the client certificates when doing host switches
2020-06-16 19:56:06	krixano	* mine -> mind
2020-06-16 19:56:11	⚡	tiwesdaeg is working on getting gemfeed to work right now
2020-06-16 19:56:18	solderpunk	Like, the cert-secured CLI apps bound to a single location that I outline in that post are, I think, super tremendously awesome.
2020-06-16 19:56:27	solderpunk	I can really see them catching on in the pubnix scene.
2020-06-16 19:56:33	solderpunk	tiwesdaeg: Need help?
2020-06-16 19:56:45	xq	and now, after reading your blog post: adding enable-patterns on client certificates which disable certs even on the same host
2020-06-16 19:56:52	~tiwesdaeg	just learning the ins and outs of the freebsd package system
2020-06-16 19:57:21	~tiwesdaeg	pip is currently installing lxml for feedgen
2020-06-16 19:57:36	~tiwesdaeg	it's taking a while
2020-06-16 20:00:12	~tiwesdaeg	there we go
2020-06-16 20:00:41	~tiwesdaeg	I needed some quotes for -t -a and -e
2020-06-16 20:01:29	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 20:02:02	lukee	hi folks - a busy night on the geminiverse with a new post from solderpunk
2020-06-16 20:02:21	~tiwesdaeg	been a busy day here on #gemini
2020-06-16 20:03:11	xq	hey lukee
2020-06-16 20:03:49	xq	solderpunk: there's no official recommendation on how to implement TOFU atm, right?
2020-06-16 20:04:30	solderpunk	That's right, for now.
2020-06-16 20:04:32	solderpunk	Hi lukee!
2020-06-16 20:05:08	xq	okay, so i keep the SSH way (storing the pubkey)
2020-06-16 20:06:02	solderpunk	Cool.
2020-06-16 20:08:11	xq	i really need to make a walkthrough video with all the new certificate stuff and update the manual
2020-06-16 20:09:53	@tomasino	indeed
2020-06-16 20:10:24	@tomasino	i'm listening to  people  ramble about prior auths and reimbursements on generic acne & Rosacia meds.
2020-06-16 20:10:33	⚡	tomasino wants to  read about  gemini!
2020-06-16 20:10:49	xq	right now, i'm improving overall error handling and response
2020-06-16 20:10:52	@tomasino	Yeesh, can't type today. double spacing left and right
2020-06-16 20:11:05	xq	plan: make improved browser-like error messages like
2020-06-16 20:11:26	xq	"The server refused connection at this port. Check your URL if it contains any errors and try again"
2020-06-16 20:11:28	xq	or something
2020-06-16 20:11:37	xq	except for … silently failing on such stuff :D
2020-06-16 20:13:00	lukee	I just implemented bookmarks in GemiNaut
2020-06-16 20:13:03	~tiwesdaeg	I need a gemini android app with screen reader ability so I can listen to solderpunk's post on the way home
2020-06-16 20:13:21	@tomasino	oh,it might  be my keyboard acting u p
2020-06-16 20:13:24	lukee	I wondered what could possibly be a simple text format to represent a list of links with titles?
2020-06-16 20:13:31	@tomasino	those spaces are  lagging  or  double  hitting
2020-06-16 20:13:33	@tomasino	crap
2020-06-16 20:13:33	lukee	hang on a minute
2020-06-16 20:13:55	@tomasino	gonna have to clean this keyboard tonight
2020-06-16 20:13:56	lukee	we have one of course. So GemiNaut bookmarks are bookmarks.gmi
2020-06-16 20:14:05	solderpunk	Haha, yes, precisely!
2020-06-16 20:14:20	solderpunk	VF-1 and AV-98 implement their bookmarks with gophermaps or .gmi files, respectively.
2020-06-16 20:14:55	xq	lukee: my about: scheme resolves everything to text/gemini as well :D
2020-06-16 20:14:55	lukee	I even thought you could use the heading levels to nest them in the menu structure.
2020-06-16 20:15:08	lukee	but that is for another day
2020-06-16 20:16:07	lukee	I copped out of doing the help file in gemini, did it in html. I should dogfood that too
2020-06-16 20:16:15	@tomasino	hah, my keyboard is FILTHY
2020-06-16 20:17:17	lukee	personally I think text/gemini has a lot of potential as a simple markup language in a number of other domains
2020-06-16 20:17:33	@tomasino	I love it as a format
2020-06-16 20:17:47	companion_cube	lukee: what's its benefit compared to, say, markdown?
2020-06-16 20:17:49	lukee	JSON - we're coming after you
2020-06-16 20:17:53	companion_cube	if you don't feel like being minimalistic
2020-06-16 20:17:54	lukee	not really
2020-06-16 20:17:57	xq	JSON is horrible
2020-06-16 20:17:57	solderpunk	Well, if nothing else, we've produced a nice markup language. :)
2020-06-16 20:18:12	lukee	hey not so modest round here
2020-06-16 20:18:13	lukee	please
2020-06-16 20:18:40	lukee	@companion_cube - it has to be the simplicity of parsing
2020-06-16 20:18:45	solderpunk	Absolutely.
2020-06-16 20:19:00	lukee	and you dont need a 5 page crib sheet to write it
2020-06-16 20:19:17	lukee	and there arent 5 different dialects
2020-06-16 20:19:28	solderpunk	Somebody wrote a phlog post about Gemini recently which claimed that it used Markdown as its format and it upset me so much!
2020-06-16 20:19:29	companion_cube	I mean, ok, but how does that help users?
2020-06-16 20:19:51	lukee	well its an newbie error
2020-06-16 20:20:03	solderpunk	You can write an entire Gemini client *including* the text/gemini formatter with less code than a Markdown formatter.
2020-06-16 20:20:38	lukee	I do like the fact that gemtext is a subset of sort-of-standardised markdown
2020-06-16 20:20:53	lukee	it means you can use markdown editors to create it if you want
2020-06-16 20:21:01	companion_cube	solderpunk: but it's also less flexible 🤷
2020-06-16 20:21:36	⚡	dozens runs to make sure they didn't accidentally call text/gemini markdown
2020-06-16 20:21:38	solderpunk	Sure.
2020-06-16 20:21:44	solderpunk	Haha, not you, dozens.
2020-06-16 20:21:46	lukee	(puts on zen hat) but that is its strength
2020-06-16 20:22:15	dozens	haha, I definitely mentioned gemini as something like markdown down down down
2020-06-16 20:22:36	lukee	the surprise factor is reduced
2020-06-16 20:22:38	companion_cube	it'd be a good format for emails, I think
2020-06-16 20:22:44	lukee	yes
2020-06-16 20:22:51	lukee	and simple config files
2020-06-16 20:22:52	wgreenhouse	given the death of text/enriched
2020-06-16 20:23:30	solderpunk	The post I'm thinking of called it exactly Markdown, and even said Gemini was *restricted* to using Markdown, which annoyed me even more because you can serve any darn MIME type you like with it.
2020-06-16 20:24:01	solderpunk	But anyway!  I'm not holding a grudge.  Everything is fine. :)
2020-06-16 20:24:03	lukee	Its like when people call the web, the internet
2020-06-16 20:24:11	krixano	I don't think it's one of my posts... I hope not anyways.
2020-06-16 20:24:36	solderpunk	It's nobody here :)
2020-06-16 20:24:37	lukee	but as we know the vast majority is gemtext - not a bad thing
2020-06-16 20:24:38	solderpunk	I wouldn't do that.
2020-06-16 20:24:50	krixano	* takes big sigh of relief
2020-06-16 20:25:00	krixano	How do you do the fancy thing?
2020-06-16 20:25:34	solderpunk	Is it /me?
2020-06-16 20:25:37	⚡	solderpunk tests that...
2020-06-16 20:25:39	solderpunk	Yeah.
2020-06-16 20:26:14	lukee	I'm still an IRC newbie - how do you do that?
2020-06-16 20:26:30	⚡	lukee foo
2020-06-16 20:26:34	⚡	ben bar
2020-06-16 20:26:35	lukee	Ahh I see
2020-06-16 20:26:50	⚡	lukee sees the penny drop
2020-06-16 20:26:53	krixano	Ah, yeah, it's /me. Thanks!
2020-06-16 20:26:56	⚡	xq xq xq xq xq
2020-06-16 20:27:05	xq	/me is not using that!
2020-06-16 20:28:39	lukee	talking of posts talking about Gemini - is there somewhere that gathers news about Gemini on the web - like articles etc?
2020-06-16 20:29:01	lukee	I feel the Gemini presence is very sparse for web visitors
2020-06-16 20:29:26	lukee	maybe they are all too terrible to link to like the one above
2020-06-16 20:29:44	lukee	But the video by @tomasino was good - for a wider audience
2020-06-16 20:29:49	@tomasino	yay video!
2020-06-16 20:29:52	solderpunk	I don't think there is.
2020-06-16 20:30:00	xq	\o/ Video was really nice!
2020-06-16 20:30:13	solderpunk	The sparse web presence, at least in terms of official gemini.circumlunar.space stuff, is kind of by design.
2020-06-16 20:30:25	krixano	I've linked a few people to tomasino's video already :)
2020-06-16 20:30:32	@tomasino	aww shucks
2020-06-16 20:30:32	solderpunk	To try to draw people into Geminispace itself.
2020-06-16 20:30:46	@tomasino	it's already my most popular video to date
2020-06-16 20:30:48	@tomasino	by a wide margin
2020-06-16 20:30:49	lukee	does it work?
2020-06-16 20:31:13	solderpunk	I guess I really don't know.
2020-06-16 20:31:23	lukee	I understand it, but my antennae say we need to reach out some how
2020-06-16 20:31:54	solderpunk	To be honest, if people start getting involved faster than they already are, it's going to be very easy for the mailing list to dissolve into complete chaos.
2020-06-16 20:31:59	lukee	maybe we arent ready for the swarming hordes
2020-06-16 20:32:31	solderpunk	The HN surge was quite enough for my taste!
2020-06-16 20:32:47	lukee	I think we all feel a sense of optimism about it, so its hard to keep it held back
2020-06-16 20:32:54	solderpunk	Like, I *do* want this thing to grow.  Just, slow and steady if possible.
2020-06-16 20:32:58	companion_cube	ohhh, a HN gateway for gemini :-°
2020-06-16 20:33:23	krixano	I never look at HN
2020-06-16 20:33:37	lukee	I came via HN maybe it was a mistake ;-)
2020-06-16 20:33:53	krixano	Wasn't Gemini featured on another site too?
2020-06-16 20:33:54	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-16 20:34:04	@tomasino	when you hit HN, you probably hit Lobsters too
2020-06-16 20:34:07	solderpunk	The lobster one?
2020-06-16 20:34:23	@tomasino	someone always takes a trending topic on one and posts to the other
2020-06-16 20:34:27	@tomasino	easy karma
2020-06-16 20:35:46	lukee	@companion_cube: I would use it if you build it
2020-06-16 20:35:59	companion_cube	:D
2020-06-16 20:36:23	solderpunk	Hasn't Julien made one?
2020-06-16 20:36:43	solderpunk	Oh, that's lobste.rs.
2020-06-16 20:36:57	solderpunk	gemini://typed-hole.org/lobsters/lobsters.gemini
2020-06-16 20:37:13	companion_cube	ahah nice
2020-06-16 20:37:29	⚡	lukee added a bookmark to that
2020-06-16 20:37:42	companion_cube	although the nesting is a bit sad whenyou click "comments" :/
2020-06-16 20:37:52	companion_cube	like, nested lists is a good thing in markdown
2020-06-16 20:37:59	xq	oh wow. my unix lazyness has reached a new level
2020-06-16 20:38:02	xq	xargs touch
2020-06-16 20:38:36	lukee	Maybe better to render as preformatted
2020-06-16 20:38:42	lukee	with better nesting
2020-06-16 20:40:35	companion_cube	to me it's a bit of a failing of the format :s
2020-06-16 20:41:26	solderpunk	Well, it's not supposed to be an ideal format for anything and everything.
2020-06-16 20:41:35	solderpunk	Radical simplicity necessarily implies limitations.
2020-06-16 20:41:44	solderpunk	The fun is in figure out what cool stuff you can do *within* those limitations.
2020-06-16 20:41:52	solderpunk	Instead of getting sad about what you can't do.
2020-06-16 20:42:13	krixano	I get a network error for gemini://typed-hole.org also.
2020-06-16 20:42:20	companion_cube	right
2020-06-16 20:43:19	lukee	its like being michaelangelo and only having a chisel and a block of marble
2020-06-16 20:43:43	@julienxx	krixano: that’s weird, both my places seem to work fine from here
2020-06-16 20:43:48	lukee	constraints stimulate creativity
2020-06-16 20:44:02	solderpunk	Precisely.
2020-06-16 20:44:16	lukee	but I do really like the additional line types we have
2020-06-16 20:44:21	companion_cube	I guess I like structure :s
2020-06-16 20:44:24	krixano	I only partially agree with that. Artists usually pick which limitations they have, and *then* they can do cool things within those limitations. But, it's *also* useful to have different limitations for different creative ideas.
2020-06-16 20:44:54	lukee	you can serve text/markdown if you want. Kristall will render it I understand
2020-06-16 20:45:18	solderpunk	That's true, krixano.
2020-06-16 20:45:22	lukee	Markdown is not too bad in a text editor
2020-06-16 20:45:34	krixano	My comment wasn't necessarily related to text/gemin and markdown, it was just mostly on the limitations thing.
2020-06-16 20:45:49	solderpunk	I got it. :)
2020-06-16 20:45:56	solderpunk	Anyway, time for me to head off to bed.
2020-06-16 20:46:01	krixano	Goodnight!
2020-06-16 20:46:07	lukee	cheerio
2020-06-16 20:46:08	@tomasino	night!
2020-06-16 20:46:14	solderpunk	'night, Geminauts!
2020-06-16 20:46:17		solderpunk has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 20:46:29	lukee	probably I should dash too - quite late here as well
2020-06-16 20:46:44	lukee	try to have some social interaction with the rest of the family
2020-06-16 20:46:46	lukee	:)
2020-06-16 20:47:06		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 20:50:49	dkibi	i found gemini via sourcehut, when they introduced that project listing castor was one of the top projects
2020-06-16 20:51:09	dkibi	that was a few days before it hit HN so I count myself as a proper hipster :P
2020-06-16 21:04:02	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 21:06:14	xj9	i like text/gemini, the other esoformat i use (indental) supports limited nesting, so i'm already conditioned to keep my nested lists shallow.
2020-06-16 21:08:43	acdw	"esoformat" I like that a lot
2020-06-16 21:09:09	acdw	Do you have a website for indental? It is very hard to Google for
2020-06-16 21:10:06	acdw	Also for everyone: I just want to apologize for my articles rising back up to the top of CAPCOM; I sftp'd all of them to the server since I added some alt text and apparently the RSS generator on circumlunar.space uses mtime
2020-06-16 21:10:33	xj9	something my friend made: https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/indental.html
2020-06-16 21:10:40	xj9	https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/oscean.html
2020-06-16 21:12:27	acdw	oh rad! and tell your friend that site is awesome
2020-06-16 21:16:16	xj9	will do 🙂
2020-06-16 21:20:46	xq	<krixano> I get a network error for gemini://typed-hole.org also.
2020-06-16 21:20:48	xq	seems to work here
2020-06-16 21:23:03	xq	makeworld: i see you are using ECDSA for your server cert. nice!
2020-06-16 21:27:51	▬▬▶	sentinel has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 21:29:10	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 21:34:28		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 21:49:29	xq	nice
2020-06-16 21:50:01	xq	i got http(s)-redirections routed through the same logic as gemini redirections
2020-06-16 21:55:27	▬▬▶	yeti has joined #gemini
2020-06-16 21:58:28		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 22:00:12	@julienxx	xq: kristall runs on Haiku https://tiny.tilde.website/@insom/104355635298156050 that’s neat!
2020-06-16 22:00:36	xq	sexey!
2020-06-16 22:03:31	dkibi	I don't understand why my gemlog post shows up twice
2020-06-16 22:11:58		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-16 22:48:59	dozens	i feel like haiku is having a Moment right now... I keep seeing it mentioned
2020-06-16 22:51:16	makeworld	xq: I just use my Let's Encrypt cert actually
2020-06-16 22:51:33	xq	:)
2020-06-16 22:51:47	makeworld	Also does anyone have an idea what my client/server library is doing wrong?
2020-06-16 22:51:51	krixano	Has anybody ever thought of making an email alternative?
2020-06-16 22:51:54	makeworld	I keep getting EOF on redirects
2020-06-16 22:52:03	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/go-gemini
2020-06-16 22:52:05	xq	krixano: i think yes ^^
2020-06-16 22:52:14	makeworld	Like as if the server didn't send anything bacck
2020-06-16 22:52:44	makeworld	It could be my browser code, but if someone could take a look at that and let me know if they see any issues that would cause a redirect that would be great
2020-06-16 22:53:01	krixano	How complicated is email? It seems pretty complicated to setup, and a lot of the server seems to be pretty buggy from what I've read
2020-06-16 22:53:21	makeworld	The harder problem is getting the big servers to accept you, I'm told
2020-06-16 22:53:31	makeworld	The general advice seems to not try and set up your own server
2020-06-16 22:53:46	makeworld	*seems to be to not try and set up
2020-06-16 22:54:01	xq	makeworld: there's https://mailcow.email/
2020-06-16 22:54:08	xq	which is the "single click email server solution"
2020-06-16 22:54:13	xq	and it's good!
2020-06-16 22:54:21	makeworld	Oh cool
2020-06-16 22:54:33	makeworld	Does anyone know Go and can look at my lib? ^^
2020-06-16 22:54:49	krixano	So, I've been thinking we could just create our own alternative to email that's much simpler, has similar goals to gemini by being privacy driven and non-extensible, and we can use text/gemini or something similar for it.
2020-06-16 22:54:50	@ben	setting up mail server is kinda tricky
2020-06-16 22:54:50	xq	:D
2020-06-16 22:54:56	@ben	but it's not that bad
2020-06-16 22:55:08	xq	krixano: i'm kinda in for that…
2020-06-16 22:55:21	xq	wanted to do something like that for a long time …
2020-06-16 22:55:22	makeworld	krixano: I think that would be kind of a big fruitless project honestly
2020-06-16 22:55:26	@ben	email is good if you can stay away from gafam
2020-06-16 22:55:48	xq	but yeah, it's probably nothing that will be used in the end except for some nerds D
2020-06-16 22:55:51	makeworld	Creating another type of message system might be fun, but it's just another thing to try and tell people to use
2020-06-16 22:56:00	@ben	email is ubiquitous
2020-06-16 22:56:03	makeworld	No harm in creating it, but I wouldn't except much usage
2020-06-16 22:56:28	krixano	How easy is it to program an email server?
2020-06-16 22:57:08	yeti	start looking at telnetd...
2020-06-16 22:57:14	yeti	plaintext protocol
2020-06-16 22:57:21	yeti	then add your backend
2020-06-16 22:57:37	makeworld	I assume they want TLS
2020-06-16 22:57:58	xq	"email" is a pretty simple protocol
2020-06-16 22:58:03	xq	you have pop/imap/smtp
2020-06-16 22:58:08	xq	but then there's extensions
2020-06-16 22:58:35	krixano	Then why are all the servers crappy?
2020-06-16 23:00:38	xq	because "there's extensions" :D
2020-06-16 23:00:49	companion_cube	and then a simpler IRC!
2020-06-16 23:00:54	companion_cube	oh wait it's already IRC.
2020-06-16 23:01:21	companion_cube	(messaging protocols are a lot of fun though)
2020-06-16 23:01:34	xq	friend of mine wants to write a new IRC server
2020-06-16 23:01:41	xq	that kinda ignores some stuff about the IRC spec
2020-06-16 23:01:45	xq	and makes the *server* more modern
2020-06-16 23:02:04	xq	as in: "you can login and have multiple clients connected, and you can send messages to offline users"
2020-06-16 23:02:05	yeti	why not chat via rsyslogd?   :-P
2020-06-16 23:02:24	xq	echo "hi" | write $USER
2020-06-16 23:03:46	krixano	The difference with email is that it's decentralized, and if a server is down, once it comes back up the email can be sent off to it, right?
2020-06-16 23:03:58	wgreenhouse	xq: sounds like oragono
2020-06-16 23:04:08	wgreenhouse	Or another ircv3ish server
2020-06-16 23:05:41	yeti	rewrite it in rust!
2020-06-16 23:05:44	yeti	:-P
2020-06-16 23:06:38	yeti	(running gag... someone wanted to convince the haiku project to rewrite haiku in rust)
2020-06-16 23:06:52	krixano	Is there like a list somewhere of these smtp/pop/imap extensions
2020-06-16 23:07:54	yeti	if you want a compatible rewrite, you'll end up with chrappyserver n+1
2020-06-16 23:09:23	makeworld	Can someone help me with this bug? Why would TLS reads randomly cause EOF errors?
2020-06-16 23:10:21	xq	makeworld: i don't know go, but are you sure that you're reading everything correctly?
2020-06-16 23:10:25	makeworld	Is my client sometimes reading before the server responds?
2020-06-16 23:10:38	makeworld	Pretty sure, because it often works, with the same redirect points too
2020-06-16 23:10:53	makeworld	So I figure it's a network thing bc it never consistently fails
2020-06-16 23:11:05	makeworld	I think that must be it, that sometimes the read happens before the server response
2020-06-16 23:11:32	xq	what i wanted to say is:
2020-06-16 23:11:37	xq	usually the os syscalls have something like
2020-06-16 23:11:47	xq	len = read(file, buffer.data, buffer.len)
2020-06-16 23:12:40	makeworld	Yeah?
2020-06-16 23:12:56	makeworld	I'm using Go, so it's just conn.Read
2020-06-16 23:13:13	makeworld	https://golang.org/pkg/crypto/tls/#Conn.Read
2020-06-16 23:14:04	xq	seems like the same interface
2020-06-16 23:14:16	xq	also: "nice docs"
2020-06-16 23:16:16	makeworld	Yeah it's been good
2020-06-16 23:16:57	xq	well, the function is not really documented at all :D
2020-06-16 23:17:08	xq	but i assume it returns the number of bytes read
2020-06-16 23:17:13	xq	from the tls connection
2020-06-16 23:17:52	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-16 23:18:24	makeworld	I think I might do a loop that will keep running read until it returns something, with a timeout
2020-06-16 23:19:20	xq	yeah
2020-06-16 23:19:23	xq	i usually have something like
2020-06-16 23:19:54	xq	off=0 while(off < len) { l = read(bytes[off..], bytes.len - off) if(l == 0) return error; off += l }
2020-06-16 23:30:58	makeworld	Wow
2020-06-16 23:31:18	makeworld	I added a 10 second timeout, where when it gets an EOF error it just reads again and again until the timeout
2020-06-16 23:31:31	makeworld	And now it just takes 10 seconds to tell me EOF
2020-06-16 23:31:35	makeworld	Argh
2020-06-16 23:32:13	makeworld	Something's not right
2020-06-17 00:13:27	companion_cube	if people here are game for gemini-like messaging protocols…
2020-06-17 00:43:04	@tomasino	ahh, yes, a freshly cleaned keyboard
2020-06-17 00:43:06	@tomasino	lovesly
2020-06-17 00:44:17	~tiwesdaeg	mine is filthy
2020-06-17 00:44:21	~tiwesdaeg	you can come clean it
2020-06-17 00:45:56	@tomasino	what a tedious task
2020-06-17 00:46:04	@tomasino	i won't be doing it again this year, thank you
2020-06-17 00:46:05	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-17 00:46:25	@tomasino	https://www.instagram.com/p/CBg9OQuAFJQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
2020-06-17 00:54:18	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 02:38:16	`epochbot	shouldn't have to retry on EOF
2020-06-17 02:38:29	`epochbot	if the server is just being slow about sending data
2020-06-17 02:38:39	`epochbot	then the read will just block until it gets the data
2020-06-17 02:38:52	`epochbot	if you want to be doing other stuff instead of being read-blocked
2020-06-17 02:39:05	`epochbot	then you can use something like epoll() or select()
2020-06-17 02:39:40	`epochbot	(or you /could/ use non-blocking IO, but then you never get to sit still and wait on a block)
2020-06-17 02:39:40	@tomasino	my latest journal entry has some big zip downloads, if anyone's working on client handling of big shit
2020-06-17 02:39:49	@tomasino	nice test case
2020-06-17 03:23:29	makeworld	`epochbot: yeah you're right
2020-06-17 03:23:46	makeworld	Any idea why it's happening? It's pretty frustrating at this point
2020-06-17 03:24:39	makeworld	Often, when trying a redirect it will just EOF
2020-06-17 03:24:52	makeworld	Only redirects
2020-06-17 03:25:51	`epochbot	it EOFs /before/ the redirect line?
2020-06-17 03:26:46	`epochbot	which server is it?
2020-06-17 03:27:28	`epochbot	would be weird if it was trying to write the redirect line, then closing the socket, but somehow the close on the socket wasn't flushing it.
2020-06-17 03:27:58	makeworld	I'm actually not sure when the EOF occurs, I'll have to debug that. It just when I try and load the link that returns a redirect
2020-06-17 03:28:43	makeworld	It occurs on the gemini.circumlunar.space/users/ page and on the client torture redirect test
2020-06-17 03:28:51	makeworld	Not all the time, just sometimes
2020-06-17 03:29:09	makeworld	This my client that is having the issue by the way
2020-06-17 03:29:40	`epochbot	what is your client written in?
2020-06-17 03:29:51	`epochbot	golang, nvm
2020-06-17 03:30:28	⚡	`epochbot looks through code
2020-06-17 03:30:32	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/go-gemini/blob/master/client.go#L172
2020-06-17 03:30:40	makeworld	That's the relevant function
2020-06-17 03:30:58	makeworld	I've never gotten an error for any other type of request
2020-06-17 03:31:38	makeworld	I would think it's my actual URL handling code, which isn't public yet, but bc the redirects sometimes work I'm inclined to think it's something else, some network thing
2020-06-17 03:32:02	makeworld	Thanks for checking it out
2020-06-17 03:34:24	`epochbot	have an exact URL that'll sometimes cause it? I don't know where the torture redirect test is from gemini.circumlunar.space/users/
2020-06-17 03:35:14	`epochbot	I see the users will have a redirect
2020-06-17 03:35:22	makeworld	Oh it's, those were separate sites
2020-06-17 03:35:23	`epochbot	from user/name to user/name/
2020-06-17 03:35:27	makeworld	*it's not
2020-06-17 03:35:28	makeworld	And yes
2020-06-17 03:35:31	`epochbot	oh, ok.
2020-06-17 03:35:36	makeworld	That's an example that caused it
2020-06-17 03:36:03	makeworld	The torture test can be found on gemini.conman.org, and then find the redirect test, maybe number 22?
2020-06-17 03:36:36	makeworld	I actually inherited this header code, this library is a fork
2020-06-17 03:36:49	makeworld	I haven't changed it although maybe I need to...
2020-06-17 03:37:47	makeworld	If it helps, it's like 179 that returns the EOF, it's the reading from the connection
2020-06-17 03:37:55	makeworld	*line 179
2020-06-17 03:38:35	`epochbot	oh. that's some weird code.
2020-06-17 03:38:44	`epochbot	looks like it reads one byte at a time
2020-06-17 03:38:54	makeworld	Yeah lol, I couldn't be bothered to change it
2020-06-17 03:39:02	makeworld	Although it's pretty dumb
2020-06-17 03:39:32		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 03:39:47	makeworld	It's trying to get just the header, by reading a byte at a time until it sees \r\n
2020-06-17 03:40:22	makeworld	That way the rest of the connection data is unread and the user of the library can read it at their own time
2020-06-17 03:40:30	`epochbot	even though it is weird I don't see why it might sometimes not return before it EOFs out
2020-06-17 03:40:47	makeworld	Yeah it's really strange
2020-06-17 03:40:54	makeworld	Also I'm pretty sure there's no timeout
2020-06-17 03:41:15	makeworld	So it's not EOFing out, it's literally that there's no data left I think
2020-06-17 03:41:30	`epochbot	what value of byte is it returning with the err?
2020-06-17 03:41:43	`epochbot	oh, derp.
2020-06-17 03:41:45	`epochbot	I read that wrong.
2020-06-17 03:41:54	makeworld	Either it's empty, or the server response isn't including \r\n
2020-06-17 03:41:55	`epochbot	that's an empty string
2020-06-17 03:41:59	`epochbot	yeah
2020-06-17 03:42:05	`epochbot	I'm learning some golang atm. :P
2020-06-17 03:42:06	makeworld	Which doesn't make sense bc it works sometimes
2020-06-17 03:42:13	makeworld	It doesn't consistently Gail
2020-06-17 03:42:16	makeworld	*fail
2020-06-17 03:42:19	makeworld	Ha thanks!
2020-06-17 03:42:22	makeworld	I like it
2020-06-17 03:42:59	`epochbot	I consider it to be like... C# I guess, made by a company I don't care for, so it tastes funny.
2020-06-17 03:44:00	makeworld	Bombadillo doesn't experience this, but the only difference in their code that I noticed was that they read all the data into memory first, then try and find the \r\n
2020-06-17 03:44:21	makeworld	Yeah I'm no fan of Google, but the language is cool
2020-06-17 03:45:34	makeworld	As far as I can tell, this doesn't happen with my server running Jetforce
2020-06-17 03:45:49	makeworld	I tested that with the URL makeworld.gq/gemlog
2020-06-17 03:47:41	`epochbot	lemme see if I can write a program to test a couple things.
2020-06-17 03:47:45	`epochbot	I can a couple guesses
2020-06-17 03:48:16	makeworld	Thanks, that'd be great! What are your guesses?
2020-06-17 03:48:20	`epochbot	one is, the socket is closed very quickly preventing to server from sending it all somehow, not sure if that makes sense
2020-06-17 03:48:27	`epochbot	but it should be easy to test.
2020-06-17 03:48:41	`epochbot	make my own little program to read one byte, sleep(1), read another...
2020-06-17 03:48:45	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-17 03:48:57	companion_cube	seems like `gemini://consensus.circumlunar.space` is not up to date
2020-06-17 03:49:08	companion_cube	it has a \t in its response header…
2020-06-17 03:49:08	`epochbot	like, maybe the socket gets shutdown and something is clearing the buffer
2020-06-17 03:49:39	makeworld	I'm going to have to go soon, but I appreciate this thanks. Could you PM me or @ me if you figure something out?
2020-06-17 03:49:43	`epochbot	or it could be golang has a bug in its socket library where when it receives stuff about a socket closing, it marks it as EOF
2020-06-17 03:49:53	`epochbot	but neither of those seem likely
2020-06-17 03:50:01	`epochbot	yeah
2020-06-17 03:50:11	makeworld	And it wouldn't explain why Bombadillo doesn't experience this
2020-06-17 03:50:26	`epochbot	well, bombadillo reads the whole thing all at once, right?
2020-06-17 03:50:32	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-17 03:50:49	makeworld	But theoretically that should be the same as reading one byte at a time
2020-06-17 03:50:55	`epochbot	so it probably gets all of the data before go could possible mark it as eof
2020-06-17 03:51:06	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-17 03:51:29	`epochbot	between each read it might have the chance to get the socket shutdown and maybe mark it as EOF
2020-06-17 03:51:44	`epochbot	I'm not sure if anyone would write socket library that way
2020-06-17 03:51:54	`epochbot	or if it'd stay un-noticed long enough for us to find it
2020-06-17 03:52:02	makeworld	Shouldn't it save the data for future reads though? Not EOF on close?
2020-06-17 03:52:10	`epochbot	you'd think
2020-06-17 03:52:22	makeworld	Yeah okay, I'd be very surprised if that's it
2020-06-17 03:52:37	makeworld	It would have happened to someone before
2020-06-17 03:52:44	makeworld	Famous last words lol
2020-06-17 03:52:54	`epochbot	it might just be that someone figured "the socket is closed, we don't need this buffer anymore..." and tosses it out
2020-06-17 03:53:12	makeworld	Yikes
2020-06-17 03:53:34	`epochbot	I'd have to either test with some go code or look at the source
2020-06-17 03:53:41	companion_cube	https://github.com/c-cube/gemini-client just wrote this tiny thing
2020-06-17 03:53:52	companion_cube	doesn't do TOFU
2020-06-17 03:54:10	companion_cube	(or validation, for what it's worth, really)
2020-06-17 03:54:47	`epochbot	it might not be a socket bug, and might be a TLS thing
2020-06-17 03:55:09	`epochbot	so it would be less likely to get noticed
2020-06-17 03:55:48	`epochbot	reading a TLS socket that has been shutdown might not happen often in the "real world"
2020-06-17 03:57:29	makeworld	https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/byws8v/reading_from_an_unresponsive_tcp_client_gives/
2020-06-17 03:57:33	makeworld	This might be it...
2020-06-17 03:58:42	makeworld	Something was read and the end was reached
2020-06-17 04:00:30	`epochbot	you might want to change the code still return the read-so-far data when it reaches EOF
2020-06-17 04:01:00	`epochbot	nah, probably not.
2020-06-17 04:03:30	makeworld	That's what I was thinking
2020-06-17 04:03:41	makeworld	Or at least add a check like that thread mentions
2020-06-17 04:03:56	makeworld	Only handle EOF errors of zero bytes were read
2020-06-17 04:04:01	makeworld	*if zero
2020-06-17 04:05:57	`epochbot	hrm. maybe it is reading one byte and returning EOF at the same time?
2020-06-17 04:06:15	`epochbot	that'd be a bit weird, but kind of makes sense.
2020-06-17 04:06:58	`epochbot	yer, if bytes read is more than 0, append, if hasSuffix, return the line, if EOF, return the error
2020-06-17 04:07:52	`epochbot	it kind of makes sense that a read() that reads the last of the bytes might also say "hey, we read the last of it. so here's an EOF while we're at it."
2020-06-17 04:08:26	⚡	`epochbot checks documentation https://golang.org/pkg/io/#Reader
2020-06-17 04:09:23	`epochbot	"When Read encounters an error or end-of-file condition after successfully reading n > 0 bytes, it returns the number of bytes read. It may return the (non-nil) error from the same call or return the error (and n == 0) from a subsequent call."
2020-06-17 04:09:27	`epochbot	that seems to be what it does
2020-06-17 04:09:45	`epochbot	"An instance of this general case is that a Reader returning a non-zero number of bytes at the end of the input stream may return either err == EOF or err == nil. The next Read should return 0, EOF."
2020-06-17 04:09:53	`epochbot	wew, golang is just weird :P
2020-06-17 04:10:38	makeworld	Huh
2020-06-17 04:10:44	makeworld	Okay, check the latest commit
2020-06-17 04:10:55	makeworld	It seems to be maybe better? But it doesn't fix the issue
2020-06-17 04:11:03	makeworld	I still get EOFs sometimes
2020-06-17 04:11:24	makeworld	Even though now it makes sure that it only returns an error if no bytes were read
2020-06-17 04:11:33	makeworld	Thanks for digging through the docs
2020-06-17 04:12:08	`epochbot			if err == io.EOF && n <= 0 {
2020-06-17 04:12:08	`epochbot				return []byte{}, err
2020-06-17 04:12:08	`epochbot			} else if err != nil {
2020-06-17 04:12:08	`epochbot				return []byte{}, err
2020-06-17 04:12:09	`epochbot			}
2020-06-17 04:12:15	makeworld	Yes
2020-06-17 04:12:31	`epochbot	alright, consider the case that it returns 1 read byte, AND EOF
2020-06-17 04:12:31	makeworld	So it only returns the EOF if there's actually no bytes left
2020-06-17 04:12:46	`epochbot	it fails the first test because n > 0
2020-06-17 04:12:55	`epochbot	then the elseif only checks that there's an error
2020-06-17 04:12:58	makeworld	Oh I'm dumb
2020-06-17 04:12:59	`epochbot	which is EOF
2020-06-17 04:13:02	`epochbot	no worries.
2020-06-17 04:13:08	makeworld	Thanks lol, let me fix that
2020-06-17 04:14:20	`epochbot	I'm about to go cook some dinner.
2020-06-17 04:14:52	makeworld	I think it's fixed!!
2020-06-17 04:15:15	makeworld	Thanks so much!
2020-06-17 04:15:23	`epochbot	no problem. :)
2020-06-17 04:15:45	`epochbot	that was good bug hunt.
2020-06-17 04:15:46	makeworld	It was annoying the hell out of me
2020-06-17 04:15:49	makeworld	:)
2020-06-17 04:16:20	makeworld	If you like terminal clients, you can know you made mine work when it comes out :)
2020-06-17 04:18:46	jan	finally made a webpage for ncgopher: https://jan.bio/software/ncgopher/
2020-06-17 04:20:35		ironzorg has left #gemini
2020-06-17 05:22:25		gbmor has quit (quit: fuck this shit)
2020-06-17 05:25:37	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 06:09:36	▬▬▶	wakyct has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 06:27:38		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 06:28:25	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 06:28:26	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-17 06:44:12		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 06:48:30	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 08:02:47	yeti	http://yeti.freeshell.org/tmp/20200617-080028-UTC__wider_than_browser_but_no_scrollbar.png
2020-06-17 08:03:11	yeti	...on FF-68.9.0esr (64-bit)
2020-06-17 08:04:00	xq	heyoh
2020-06-17 08:04:06	yeti	_o/
2020-06-17 08:04:10	xq	makeworld, it looks like your problem fixed? \o/
2020-06-17 09:10:48		rodolphoeck has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 09:40:41	xq	hey
2020-06-17 09:40:59	xq	i'm thinking about pre-filling the Kristall favourites with some "gemini starting points"
2020-06-17 09:57:38		numilani_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 10:11:21	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 10:11:55		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 10:41:48		wakyct has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 11:00:54	xq	new feature in kristall: https://mq32.de/public/kristall-05.mp4
2020-06-17 11:00:59	xq	cross-protocol redirection warning
2020-06-17 11:02:12	paper	nice, will it be enabled by default?
2020-06-17 11:03:23	xq	yes
2020-06-17 11:03:34	xq	the default will be "warn me for cross-host or cross-scheme"
2020-06-17 11:03:43	xq	but you can change that to whatever you want
2020-06-17 11:03:49	xq	including "always ask" and "never ask"
2020-06-17 11:04:40	paper	at first, I thought it would be annoying, but then I remembered that I was closely watching the color of links and sometimes clicked on a http link when I didn't want to. I love it.
2020-06-17 11:05:18	xq	hehe
2020-06-17 11:05:23	xq	yeah i really love the link coloring
2020-06-17 11:05:31	xq	if you find it annoying: give every link the same color ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-06-17 11:05:42	xq	but i really find it interesting and it allows me to see the interwebs :D
2020-06-17 11:06:08	paper	I had it almost the same, just a bit different shade, that's why
2020-06-17 11:08:26	paper	xq: any plans on integrating gus in the url bar
2020-06-17 11:09:04	xq	😱
2020-06-17 11:09:59	⚡	paper sees a white square
2020-06-17 11:10:06	xq	it's a screaming emojo
2020-06-17 11:10:24	paper	oh
2020-06-17 11:12:14	⚡	xq is searching kristall with GUS
2020-06-17 11:12:15	xq	found this:
2020-06-17 11:12:16	xq	gemini://geddit.pitr.ca/s/26
2020-06-17 12:45:26	~tiwesdaeg	good morning!
2020-06-17 12:46:48	⚡	tiwesdaeg goes to recompile kristall
2020-06-17 12:47:08	xq	hello tiwesdaeg
2020-06-17 12:49:25	⚡	xq just found a way to have better icon colors!
2020-06-17 12:49:46	@tomasino	uh-oh
2020-06-17 12:49:58	xq	white icons on dark theme
2020-06-17 12:49:59	@tomasino	well, i reinstalled, but now i can't get into astrobotany
2020-06-17 12:50:01	~tiwesdaeg	in the browser widgets or the logo itself?
2020-06-17 12:50:05	xq	black icons on light theme
2020-06-17 12:50:12	xq	widgets
2020-06-17 12:50:13	~tiwesdaeg	ahh
2020-06-17 12:50:22	xq	and i want to provide a "colorful" theme as well
2020-06-17 12:50:27	@tomasino	it builds on ubuntu 18.04 without any tweaks again. so yay!
2020-06-17 12:50:29	~tiwesdaeg	already pushed?
2020-06-17 12:50:33	@tomasino	but something seems weird with client certs
2020-06-17 12:50:33	xq	nope
2020-06-17 12:50:38	xq	this evening
2020-06-17 12:50:48	xq	tomasino: damn. i started to set up github actions btw!
2020-06-17 12:51:00	@tomasino	awesome
2020-06-17 12:51:00	~tiwesdaeg	I did not build any of yesterday's changes here at home
2020-06-17 12:51:09	~tiwesdaeg	I was doing everything from my work computer
2020-06-17 12:51:19	xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/actions/runs/138266036
2020-06-17 12:51:37	xq	tomasino: have to check that out later, first i need to work :D
2020-06-17 12:52:12	~tiwesdaeg	next up, packaging!
2020-06-17 12:52:43	~tiwesdaeg	I wonder how hard it would be to contribute to the aur
2020-06-17 12:53:35	xq	i would build an AppImage before doing packaging
2020-06-17 12:53:41	xq	makes installation for all linux users way easier
2020-06-17 12:53:49	xq	and also non-coders can use it then :)
2020-06-17 12:56:43	~tiwesdaeg	finally sitting down to read solderpunk's post from yesterday
2020-06-17 12:57:00	~tiwesdaeg	do we have any gemini feed reading clients?
2020-06-17 12:57:20	~tiwesdaeg	I know there are a couple of aggregation sites
2020-06-17 12:57:35	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 12:57:57	~tiwesdaeg	hey solderpunk, was just talking about you
2020-06-17 12:57:59	xq	hey solderpunk o/
2020-06-17 12:58:19	xq	<tiwesdaeg> do we have any gemini feed reading clients?
2020-06-17 12:58:38	xq	I want to have Kristall 0.5 an Atom feed reader :D
2020-06-17 12:58:44	xq	*full feature suie*
2020-06-17 12:58:47	solderpunk	Hey!
2020-06-17 12:59:03	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 12:59:08	solderpunk	I don't think we do yet, unless you count indirectly via a local CAPCOM install.
2020-06-17 12:59:43	paper	hi
2020-06-17 13:00:10	~tiwesdaeg	it would make your microblogging concept easier to pick up
2020-06-17 13:00:53	solderpunk	It certainly would!
2020-06-17 13:01:17	solderpunk	I don't have time to code half of the things I have ideas for, sadly, I hope somebody else has the energy to do it all eventually.
2020-06-17 13:01:27	solderpunk	Hi paper
2020-06-17 13:01:41	~tiwesdaeg	with the amount of clients we have out there, someone will probably pick it up
2020-06-17 13:02:58	paper	I am planning to make a simple rss/atom reader using recutils as a backend, a gemini interface is planned too, but idk when I will start
2020-06-17 13:04:59	~tiwesdaeg	xq: the certificate manager looks nice
2020-06-17 13:05:14	xq	thanks!
2020-06-17 13:05:19	xq	it's not finished yet
2020-06-17 13:05:29	xq	solderpunk motivated me to also add a host/url restriction
2020-06-17 13:05:34	xq	where you can do something like
2020-06-17 13:06:06	xq	gemini://astrobotany.mozz.us/app*
2020-06-17 13:06:08	xq	oh and …
2020-06-17 13:06:13	xq	i broke client certificates for now
2020-06-17 13:06:22	xq	i've built Kristall against the new spec
2020-06-17 13:06:24	xq	not the current one
2020-06-17 13:06:25	xq	:D
2020-06-17 13:06:30	~tiwesdaeg	hehe
2020-06-17 13:06:51	~tiwesdaeg	I really should read the new spec
2020-06-17 13:07:14	xq	the client certificate stuff fits perfectly in Kristalls way of working
2020-06-17 13:08:05	solderpunk	Not too much changed, tiwesdaeg
2020-06-17 13:08:11	paper	how should I tell molly brown that this directory contains text/plain files without changing their extension
2020-06-17 13:08:15	~tiwesdaeg	one interface note: drop down selection menus have clear brackgrounds, making the text hard to read
2020-06-17 13:08:43	~tiwesdaeg	like when choosing Dark or Light themes
2020-06-17 13:08:53	xq	interesting
2020-06-17 13:08:57	xq	> If another * is found in the same line, it is not a bullet.
2020-06-17 13:09:04	⚡	xq is a bit confused about that email
2020-06-17 13:11:53	paper	someone probably doesn't understand the goal of gemini
2020-06-17 13:12:37	paper	solderpunk, I noticed you added a link to my list of mirrors on gemini.circumlunar.space, thanks :)
2020-06-17 13:14:09	solderpunk	No worries!
2020-06-17 13:14:17	solderpunk	paper, what are their extensions?
2020-06-17 13:14:28	~tiwesdaeg	* I like &
2020-06-17 13:14:33	~tiwesdaeg	* I also like *
2020-06-17 13:14:42	paper	well, they are scripts, so they don't have an extension
2020-06-17 13:14:51	solderpunk	Ah.
2020-06-17 13:14:53	@tomasino	sounds like a challenge for inline stylers
2020-06-17 13:15:07	solderpunk	So, right now it serves them up as application/octet or something, right?
2020-06-17 13:15:14	@tomasino	*\s doesn't start an emphasis. Easy enough
2020-06-17 13:15:32	@tomasino	* this isn't bold *
2020-06-17 13:15:34	@tomasino	*this is bold*
2020-06-17 13:15:41	paper	yes, application/octet-stream
2020-06-17 13:15:56		julienxx_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 13:17:03	paper	the * proposal would also mean clients would have to inspect the whole line before knowing what type of line it is - madness
2020-06-17 13:17:10	paper	it couldn't be more wrong imo
2020-06-17 13:17:50	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://tilde.pink/~tiwesdaeg/test.gmi
2020-06-17 13:18:19	solderpunk	paper, there is currently no way to override that, but there certainly should be.
2020-06-17 13:18:37	solderpunk	I haven't announced it yet, but Molly Brown now reads .molly files, which work much like Apache's .htaccess files.
2020-06-17 13:18:46	solderpunk	So you can set per-directory overrides on some settings.
2020-06-17 13:18:53	solderpunk	Like the lang parameter.
2020-06-17 13:18:59	paper	oh, nice
2020-06-17 13:19:14	solderpunk	So, a way to control MIME types using this should be pretty easy.
2020-06-17 13:19:18	solderpunk	I will try to add it soon.
2020-06-17 13:19:52	@tomasino	woo molly
2020-06-17 13:19:56	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 13:19:57	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-17 13:20:15	paper	I will work around it for now
2020-06-17 13:20:35	~tiwesdaeg	welcome back julienxx
2020-06-17 13:21:19	paper	solderpunk, there is a typo in molly: Temporaray failure in handler.go:112
2020-06-17 13:23:09	solderpunk	That's for temporary failures which might become permanent later.  They're temporarily temporary, or "temporaray" for short.
2020-06-17 13:23:19	solderpunk	Just kidding :p  I fixed it, thanks.
2020-06-17 13:23:50	paper	xD I thought for a moment I would learn a new word
2020-06-17 13:28:25	solderpunk	How is everybody feeling about Gemini these days?
2020-06-17 13:28:36	xq	\o/
2020-06-17 13:28:47	solderpunk	I am really aware that mailing list traffic seems to have dropped quite a bit since I started trying to be a bit more assertive about the direction of the project.
2020-06-17 13:29:07	solderpunk	I'm worried it might be driving people away
2020-06-17 13:29:33	solderpunk	Even Sean has been quiet lately, and Sean is never quiet :p
2020-06-17 13:30:01		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 13:31:52	xq	i think the direction is good
2020-06-17 13:32:20	paper	I only started getting into it, but I love it. Some proposals were trying to build the web again, so I am glad you said you will not support it.
2020-06-17 13:34:13	solderpunk	Glad to hear it :)
2020-06-17 13:35:33	~tiwesdaeg	I have mostly dropped my own gopher focus at this point
2020-06-17 13:36:08	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like gemini is mature enough to fulfill my small internet needs
2020-06-17 13:37:26	dkibi	slightly off topic question: when did the gopher space become a thing (again) I remember looking at gopher in ~2007 and there was not a ton going on back then
2020-06-17 13:37:31	solderpunk	Even gladder! :)
2020-06-17 13:37:41	solderpunk	It was much quieter then.
2020-06-17 13:38:08	@tomasino	it's been on a big growth spurt since 2016-7, it feels
2020-06-17 13:38:16	solderpunk	Yeah.
2020-06-17 13:38:27	solderpunk	I was going to say maybe 2015 because I don't know how much earlier it started than when I turned up.
2020-06-17 13:38:46	solderpunk	But it's definitely been heating up for the past 3 years.
2020-06-17 13:39:07	solderpunk	I think it's only in the past 2 years or so that non-trivial activity has been happening outside of SDF.
2020-06-17 13:39:24	mhj	Heyo all~ I think tomasino single-handedly revived gopher with his powers of suggestion
2020-06-17 13:39:32	solderpunk	With people like me, Tomasino, cat, jynx and others migrating from SDF to our own hosts.
2020-06-17 13:39:54	solderpunk	Which all happened within a few months of each other, IIRC.
2020-06-17 13:40:07	solderpunk	I wish I'd documented that time period better.
2020-06-17 13:41:16	dkibi	do you know if GUS also does an "gemini" archive?
2020-06-17 13:42:09	solderpunk	archive.org style?
2020-06-17 13:43:08	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-17 13:43:19	⚡	tomasino wiggles his sorcerer noodles
2020-06-17 13:43:28	@tomasino	you will make a gopher hole.... ooooOOOOoooo
2020-06-17 13:43:37	dkibi	yeah
2020-06-17 13:44:09	solderpunk	It doesn't.  I'm not sure if it will.  Archiving is kind of contentious in the Small Internet community.
2020-06-17 13:44:22	dkibi	I see
2020-06-17 13:44:28	solderpunk	I wrong a long pontificating phlog post about it once.
2020-06-17 13:44:33	solderpunk	Like I do.
2020-06-17 13:44:38	solderpunk	*wrote
2020-06-17 13:44:50	@tomasino	yeah, i remember that one
2020-06-17 13:44:53	@tomasino	that was great
2020-06-17 13:45:27	@tomasino	you also kinda took a stand on it with circumlunar's right to be forgotten policy
2020-06-17 13:45:42	@tomasino	i remember the first time someone pulled that trigger... that was a good phlog of yours too
2020-06-17 13:46:30	@tomasino	the really important question for all you geminauts... how many of you have listened to Kesha since my phlog last night?
2020-06-17 13:46:34	@tomasino	er, gemlog
2020-06-17 13:46:38	@tomasino	all this gopher talk!
2020-06-17 13:46:48	solderpunk	Haha.
2020-06-17 13:46:55	solderpunk	Let us not speak of the Old World here! :p
2020-06-17 13:47:37	companion_cube	for fear of raptors?
2020-06-17 13:48:03	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 13:48:03	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-17 13:48:11	solderpunk	I hadn't seen it yet, Tomasino.
2020-06-17 13:48:11	companion_cube	solderpunk: btw where is the weapon I have to fire to get admitted to the red consensus??
2020-06-17 13:48:40	solderpunk	I'm so happy Christina posted those questions, and even happier people have found them, and are replying, and the thing is spreading via word of mouth.
2020-06-17 13:48:53	makeworld	Oh yeah, I just found those last night
2020-06-17 13:49:06	solderpunk	It's such a relief amidst all the arguing about uploading and applications and stuff to see good old fashioned plain text person-to-person stuff is happening.
2020-06-17 13:49:09	mhj	But seriously, good day all. Hope everyone is doing well.
2020-06-17 13:50:01	companion_cube	solderpunk: you could start a project more ambitious than gemini, call it apollo 13
2020-06-17 13:50:12	companion_cube	and divert their efforts there
2020-06-17 13:50:21	solderpunk	companion_cube: You'll have to ask tfurrows!  Be careful injecting anything into your arm :p
2020-06-17 13:51:36	solderpunk	I am not opposed to more - or less! - ambitious projects.  I just think it will take us a few years to really know for sure whether Gemini has turned out to be too powerful, or not powerful enough, and in precisely *what ways*, so we can make the minimal required changes.
2020-06-17 13:52:03	makeworld	Yes, with time
2020-06-17 13:52:25	makeworld	I hope Natalie updates the GUS repo
2020-06-17 13:52:38	makeworld	I emailed her a few days ago about it, we'll see I  guess
2020-06-17 13:52:48	companion_cube	solderpunk: I'll just avoid boarding asteroids
2020-06-17 13:52:55	dkibi	one thing that I never encountered before is people sending me emails about my (imho not particularly insightful) writing
2020-06-17 13:53:01	companion_cube	ahah nice
2020-06-17 13:53:13	companion_cube	and I got to connect with my super basic client to dkibi's site
2020-06-17 13:53:21	companion_cube	(first ocaml client?)
2020-06-17 13:53:37	solderpunk	dkibi: You are not the first person to say that!
2020-06-17 13:53:53	solderpunk	It used to be such a normal thing, even on the web.
2020-06-17 13:54:04	solderpunk	I am surprised people are so shocked to have it happen to them, but everybody seems to really enjoy it.
2020-06-17 13:54:25	solderpunk	It should definitely be a thing in Geminispace.
2020-06-17 13:54:30	solderpunk	Eat your Weeties!
2020-06-17 13:55:06	@tomasino	it makes my day every time i get an email
2020-06-17 13:55:13	solderpunk	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/alphonse - this will soon be a proof-of-concept for the "container client" idea.
2020-06-17 13:55:38	@tomasino	oh, i read your gemlog finally. i loved it. Such a neat approach
2020-06-17 13:55:38	solderpunk	Just going to copy AV-98 and then rip out huge chunks of code.
2020-06-17 13:55:48	solderpunk	I *love* ripping out huge chunks of code! :D
2020-06-17 13:55:55	solderpunk	Yay!!!
2020-06-17 13:56:22	companion_cube	I should make my own server, at some point
2020-06-17 13:56:26	companion_cube	with a sqlite base or something
2020-06-17 13:56:49	makeworld	Oh you're going to make the gemtainer? Nice
2020-06-17 13:57:04	makeworld	Also, should my TOFU db go in the cache, config, or data directory
2020-06-17 13:57:21	makeworld	I'm leaning towards cache
2020-06-17 13:57:43	solderpunk	I think cache too.
2020-06-17 13:57:48	xq	companion_cube: checkout github.com/MasterQ32/gurl
2020-06-17 13:57:58	solderpunk	Sorry, makeworld, which client is yours?  I can't keep track of everybody...
2020-06-17 13:58:06	companion_cube	ahah fun
2020-06-17 13:58:29	companion_cube	mine is https://github.com/c-cube/gemini-client
2020-06-17 13:58:35	companion_cube	but it's super super basic
2020-06-17 13:59:00	solderpunk	No need for "but", super super basic is totally orthodox here :)
2020-06-17 13:59:09	makeworld	solderpunk: Unreleased ;)
2020-06-17 13:59:16	solderpunk	Ah, fair enough!
2020-06-17 13:59:22	companion_cube	I mean, 80% of the complexity is in the SSL stuff
2020-06-17 14:01:05	solderpunk	That's my biggest regret, perhaps.  Not putting in TLS, I still think that was right.  But I honestly thought existing libraries would make it pretty easy.
2020-06-17 14:01:14	solderpunk	I didn't expect that so many TLS libraries would be kind of garbage.
2020-06-17 14:02:32	companion_cube	well I just used openSSL bindings
2020-06-17 14:02:41	companion_cube	and the whole certificate thing is todo :D
2020-06-17 14:05:59		dacav has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 14:06:40		notandinus has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-17 14:07:31	▬▬▶	dacav has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 14:11:44	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 14:30:40	rak	companion_cube: I've been working on an ocaml client for a few weeks now. https://tildegit.org/rak/leda
2020-06-17 14:31:04	rak	companion_cube: I wish I could spend more time on it, but I have a camera ready deadline on Friday that is sucking up all of my time.
2020-06-17 14:31:19	companion_cube	ah well
2020-06-17 14:31:30	companion_cube	there's enough space for the two of us
2020-06-17 14:31:34	rak	I just use ocaml-tls and conduit
2020-06-17 14:31:53	companion_cube	yours looks a lot more advanced
2020-06-17 14:32:08	companion_cube	I just went for `ssl`
2020-06-17 14:32:17	rak	I'm always happy to see when others have good taste in programming languages :-) I wanted to write mine in Standard ML, but it definitely doesn't have TLS bindings
2020-06-17 14:33:43	xq	solderpunk: I'm sad that TLS is such a can of legacy garbage
2020-06-17 14:33:46	companion_cube	well I use OCaml at work and it's the language I'm the most proficient with
2020-06-17 14:33:50	xq	it's better with 1.2 and 1.3
2020-06-17 14:33:55	xq	but still so much stuff
2020-06-17 14:34:02	companion_cube	took me a bit over an hour to get this working last nig
2020-06-17 14:34:04	companion_cube	ht
2020-06-17 14:53:59	makeworld	Client is almost ready!
2020-06-17 14:54:20	makeworld	Simple history is the major feature left before I feel good to launch
2020-06-17 14:54:30	makeworld	Oh, and the help menu
2020-06-17 14:58:25	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 15:30:43	solderpunk	1.3 is way better, regarding legacy garbage.
2020-06-17 15:31:11	companion_cube	yesterday's discussions make me want to make minimalistic versions of bittorrent and IRC… halp
2020-06-17 15:32:07	xq	solderpunk: true. but!
2020-06-17 15:32:12	xq	one thing…
2020-06-17 15:32:23	xq	we could also restrict gemini to *exactly one* cypher
2020-06-17 15:32:32	companion_cube	rot13!
2020-06-17 15:32:37	companion_cube	it's the simplest one to implement
2020-06-17 15:32:40	xq	double-rot13 please
2020-06-17 15:33:16	solderpunk	Hmm.
2020-06-17 15:33:18	makeworld	Haha
2020-06-17 15:33:37	makeworld	To be serious, I would be against restricting ciphers
2020-06-17 15:33:48	xq	wireguard did this
2020-06-17 15:33:50	makeworld	Much easier to just set a TLS version and let the libraries work it out
2020-06-17 15:34:02	xq	and they have blazing fast negotiation with near-zero overhead
2020-06-17 15:34:14	xq	client tells server: "i can speak level X"
2020-06-17 15:34:21	xq	server tells client: "i can speak level Y"
2020-06-17 15:34:37	xq	and negotiation of cypher is done, because they use crypto version min(X,Y)
2020-06-17 15:34:54	makeworld	Okay, but TLS already has a way of doing things
2020-06-17 15:35:03	makeworld	I don't think it makes sense to reinvent or restrict it
2020-06-17 15:36:04	⚡	makeworld afk
2020-06-17 15:36:09	solderpunk	I'm not sure the cipher selection is the biggest overhead in TLS?
2020-06-17 15:36:20	xq	it's at least a part of
2020-06-17 15:36:25	xq	not sure about everything though
2020-06-17 15:36:56	solderpunk	Whether or not AES or CHACHA20 will be faster/more energy efficient depends upon the processor, and I think it would be nice to let machines use what's best for them.
2020-06-17 15:37:18	solderpunk	I *do* think we should have a strong convention of not using 2048bit RSA keys.
2020-06-17 15:37:36	xq	yeah i need to change that for my migrated version of gemini://random-project.net
2020-06-17 15:37:38	solderpunk	The certs are *huge* compared to other options.
2020-06-17 15:37:56	solderpunk	ONE DAY I will make a post analysing all the certs in my AV-98 TOFU cache.
2020-06-17 15:38:05	solderpunk	Showing the different sizes that are in the wild.
2020-06-17 15:38:15	solderpunk	Most of them are much larger than the few smallest ones.
2020-06-17 15:38:28	solderpunk	Somebody with an .eu domain has a tiny little ECDSA cert.
2020-06-17 15:38:36	solderpunk	It's so cute and smol.
2020-06-17 15:38:45	companion_cube	is it really that bad to use persistent connections, solderpunk?
2020-06-17 15:38:51	acdw	You should have a cert hall of fame!
2020-06-17 15:38:54	companion_cube	for me the http-like "content size" is incredibly simple
2020-06-17 15:40:04	solderpunk	It might not be "that bad", but it's definitely *less* simple than what we have now.  And I think Gopher proves that what we have now is workable in the real world.
2020-06-17 15:41:50	companion_cube	I'm not sure it's less simple if it means you can use any cert :)
2020-06-17 15:42:47	solderpunk	Generating a small cert is not any more difficult than generating a large one.
2020-06-17 15:43:18	solderpunk	Nice tools for generating certs would be a good thing to have.
2020-06-17 15:43:54	solderpunk	Setting up certbot looks easy next to wrangling `openssl` with an endless string of options after it.
2020-06-17 15:44:03	solderpunk	But we can certainly improve on that.
2020-06-17 15:45:30	acdw	Can anyone actually point me to a resource about generating a cert? Like a client cert? It makes little sense to me.
2020-06-17 15:46:08	solderpunk	I do plan to write one some day.
2020-06-17 15:46:18	solderpunk	It is kind of a big gap in our documentation.
2020-06-17 15:47:03	acdw	:) I await it eagerly
2020-06-17 15:47:11	solderpunk	There's nothing special about a "client cert", though, it's exactly the same kind of object as a "server cert".
2020-06-17 15:47:30	acdw	From the openssl documentation, it's something like `openssl req ...` then `openssl <something>..`
2020-06-17 15:47:32	companion_cube	I have no idea how it works either
2020-06-17 15:48:15	solderpunk	Ha, that's exactly the kind of tool I want to replace :p
2020-06-17 15:48:30	solderpunk	Based on a quick peek I think Go's standard library can do it.
2020-06-17 15:49:27	solderpunk	It will happen soon.  I have two weeks of summer holiday coming up.  I plan to spend one doing absolutely nothing related to Gemini, and one doing a *lot* of stuff related to Gemini. :)
2020-06-17 15:49:48	xq	rsa key: openssl req -new -x509 -nodes -newkey rsa:4096 -keyout key.pem -out cert.pem -days 1
2020-06-17 15:49:58	solderpunk	4096!
2020-06-17 15:49:58	xq	> openssl req -new -x509 -nodes -newkey ec:<(openssl ecparam -name secp384r1) -keyout key.pem -out cert.pem -days 1
2020-06-17 15:50:01	xq	ECDSA
2020-06-17 15:50:22	companion_cube	how do you even learn that kind of horror
2020-06-17 15:50:32	xq	"stackoverflow" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-06-17 15:50:35	xq	and RTFM
2020-06-17 15:52:02	solderpunk	tiwesdaeg: Added your new Atom feed to CAPCOM, thanks!
2020-06-17 15:52:16	xq	i need to setup your atom gen
2020-06-17 15:52:31	xq	but i don't want pip or even python in my server
2020-06-17 15:52:37	⚡	xq needs to learn containers
2020-06-17 15:52:58	solderpunk	Nobody needs to learn containers :p
2020-06-17 15:53:28	solderpunk	It would be less work to write your own feed generator in some other language, surely.
2020-06-17 15:53:34	xq	probably :D
2020-06-17 15:53:52	@ben	why is the openssl cli so fricken Bad
2020-06-17 15:53:59	acdw	xq: thanks! And then when passing it to a server, they'll need both the key and the cert, yes?
2020-06-17 15:54:01	xq	because it's oooold
2020-06-17 15:54:04	xq	yes
2020-06-17 15:54:04	acdw	I prolly should RTFM as well
2020-06-17 15:54:36	companion_cube	if anyone has a good comprehensive introduction to all the terms openssl uses..
2020-06-17 15:55:14	~tiwesdaeg	awesome! thanks solderpunk
2020-06-17 15:55:16	acdw	https://www.openssl.org/docs/manmaster/man1/openssl.html is the man page. guess it's not an 'introduction' per se...
2020-06-17 15:55:36	solderpunk	acdw: Hmm, your question is ambiguous to me - when you say "passing it to the server", what do you mean?
2020-06-17 15:55:42	~tiwesdaeg	just trying to contribute a little non-technical media to the gemosphere
2020-06-17 15:55:48	solderpunk	A client sends its certificate to the server, NOT the matching private key.
2020-06-17 15:55:53	solderpunk	tiwesdaeg: Sorely needed!
2020-06-17 15:55:55	acdw	solderpunk: does your feed generator still go off mtime? I sftp'd my whole site to circumlunar and it floated to the top of CAPCOM
2020-06-17 15:56:21	companion_cube	acdw: yeah that's too bad; there was a sweet post on ASN1.1 recently that made it much less frightening
2020-06-17 15:56:43	solderpunk	Hmm, it shouldn't use the filesystem time if you have a timestamp in the filename.
2020-06-17 15:57:02	acdw	solderpunk re: server: When I generate a client cert, I need to pass it to the server to verify it's me, right? And OH you just answered the question I think
2020-06-17 15:57:22	acdw	Also yes -- you're right! Just realized that only my pages without a timestamp in the name floated to the top
2020-06-17 15:57:31	acdw	is there a headslap emoji I can use on myself?
2020-06-17 15:57:34	acdw	oof, sorry
2020-06-17 15:57:59	⚡	acdw runs off to read tiwesdaeg's content.
2020-06-17 15:58:12	~tiwesdaeg	it's not using my filename dates
2020-06-17 15:58:34	~tiwesdaeg	they all start with like '20200617-'
2020-06-17 15:58:56	acdw	companion_cube: I'd love to read that if you could share!
2020-06-17 15:59:05	solderpunk	It only recognises God-fearing YYYY-MM-DD timestamps :p
2020-06-17 15:59:18	solderpunk	I really didn't feel like coding in fifty different variations.
2020-06-17 15:59:22	~tiwesdaeg	that's a horrible waste of bytes
2020-06-17 15:59:26	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-06-17 15:59:43	solderpunk	And then worrying about ambiguous cases where the month and day could be American style or normal style.
2020-06-17 15:59:46	~tiwesdaeg	so, if I change the file, that will change the feed date
2020-06-17 15:59:55	solderpunk	So you do it the ISO-whatever way or not at all :p
2020-06-17 16:00:01	~tiwesdaeg	american style is stupid
2020-06-17 16:00:22	acdw	As an American: I agree 100%
2020-06-17 16:00:25	~tiwesdaeg	I've been forced to use military style for the past 20 years, 17JUN20
2020-06-17 16:00:30	~tiwesdaeg	or 17JUN2020
2020-06-17 16:00:33	companion_cube	acdw: https://letsencrypt.org/docs/a-warm-welcome-to-asn1-and-der/
2020-06-17 16:00:42	acdw	Thanks, companion_cube!
2020-06-17 16:00:50	~tiwesdaeg	removes all ambiguity with the day and month
2020-06-17 16:00:59	companion_cube	of course now it makes me salty that protobuf & co were ever invented
2020-06-17 16:01:09	acdw	I do really like that style and how compact it is, though it doesn't sort well
2020-06-17 16:01:21	acdw	I might make that my heading date style tho
2020-06-17 16:01:40	companion_cube	I like rfc3339
2020-06-17 16:02:26	acdw	Reading RFCs is maybe my new favorite past time
2020-06-17 16:02:51	acdw	THAT would be a great gemini portal application -- the RFC spec
2020-06-17 16:02:57	acdw	s*
2020-06-17 16:03:15	solderpunk	I'd frequent the hell out of a nice cafe that had big, nicely-bound hard copies of all the RFCs for you to browse.
2020-06-17 16:03:27	companion_cube	ah yes, RFCs should go very well over text!
2020-06-17 16:03:27	solderpunk	But acdw, you're right, that *would* be handy.
2020-06-17 16:03:48	companion_cube	a socat café
2020-06-17 16:06:22	~tiwesdaeg	can I just drink the coffee at that cafe?
2020-06-17 16:07:24	acdw	The cafe would also be quite nice
2020-06-17 16:07:31	⚡	tiwesdaeg is putting off his bike ride and sipping coffee
2020-06-17 16:07:40	acdw	mmm I wish I had coffee rn
2020-06-17 16:08:03	acdw	solderpunk does circumlunar.space userdirs have CGI capability?
2020-06-17 16:08:42	companion_cube	if one was to write a server… is there any reason not to make it pure CGI?
2020-06-17 16:08:55	krixano	I have started up a Gemlog finally, and the first post is Christina's Five Questions
2020-06-17 16:08:57	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 16:09:33	krixano	Now I just need to get the Atom feed thing done
2020-06-17 16:09:49	solderpunk	acdw: it doesn't, because Go is broken in a way which makes it impossible for me to offer it securely :/
2020-06-17 16:10:12	solderpunk	One Day(TM) I'll set up SCGI stuff for people if they want.
2020-06-17 16:10:17	makeworld	solderpunk: I remember you mentioned adding gemlikes one time but you were worried about root perms for CGI
2020-06-17 16:10:24	makeworld	Why not just not run the server as root?
2020-06-17 16:10:38	solderpunk	I don't run the server as root!!!
2020-06-17 16:10:55	makeworld	Oh sorry haha
2020-06-17 16:11:03	makeworld	Must have misunderstood the issue
2020-06-17 16:11:09	makeworld	What's the problem that Go has?
2020-06-17 16:11:16	solderpunk	But no matter what user it runs as, if CGI applications run as the *same* user, then CGI applications can do scary things like read/write the server logs, read the TLS files, etc.
2020-06-17 16:11:24	solderpunk	It can't setuid() properly.
2020-06-17 16:11:34	solderpunk	Apparently it might get fixed in the next release.
2020-06-17 16:11:47	acdw	solderpunk: thanks for the info, at some point I want to change my domain over to digitalocean or something to set up more servers for it and I can CGI at that time
2020-06-17 16:12:05	acdw	also that seems like a huge oversight from the Go team tbh
2020-06-17 16:13:53	solderpunk	companion_cube: The usual argument against pure CGI is that it doesn't scale up well to heavy traffic, but heavy traffic is unlikely to be a serious problem in Geminispace for years, so for *now* I don't see a reason to go with anything fancier.
2020-06-17 16:14:07	solderpunk	acdw: It's a consequence of the way they implement goroutines.
2020-06-17 16:14:10	solderpunk	I gather it's not an easy fix.
2020-06-17 16:14:15	makeworld	It's not that they don't have setuid at all, it's that there's a long standing bug in the implementation so for now it doesn't work
2020-06-17 16:15:03	makeworld	For gemlikes specifically though, maybe that could just be a CGI file, but nothing else is allowed
2020-06-17 16:15:25	makeworld	Like add CGI capbability to certain paths in Molly Brown, and don't give users access to those paths
2020-06-17 16:15:44	makeworld	But I understand not wanting to add it until it's fixed
2020-06-17 16:16:11	solderpunk	I can limit it to certain paths already.
2020-06-17 16:16:30	makeworld	Hmm also the other problem would be gemlikes doesn't like multiple files with the same name, which would be a problem with multiple users...
2020-06-17 16:16:36	makeworld	I should change that maybe
2020-06-17 16:17:27	solderpunk	Congrats xq, Günther is the first plant to ever get watered using Alphonse!
2020-06-17 16:17:36	xq	whooo \o/
2020-06-17 16:17:36	acdw	weird
2020-06-17 16:17:42	xq	What is Alphonse?
2020-06-17 16:17:49	acdw	sorry..weird w/ goroutines
2020-06-17 16:18:06	acdw	.. is Alphonse one o them ~fancy~ clients you were talking about?
2020-06-17 16:18:14	solderpunk	My proof-of-concept "containerised" Gemini client.
2020-06-17 16:18:17	acdw	ooooh
2020-06-17 16:18:19	solderpunk	Which aren't fancy at all :p
2020-06-17 16:18:19	xq	ah!
2020-06-17 16:18:21	xq	neat
2020-06-17 16:18:37	acdw	I realized once I wrote fancy that it was actually totally *not* fancy
2020-06-17 16:18:42	solderpunk	Haha
2020-06-17 16:19:26	acdw	I do like the idea of two-ness with your idea tho -- it's like the twins of Gemini
2020-06-17 16:19:41	krixano	*gasp*, A plant is deceased!
2020-06-17 16:19:49	acdw	similar to if someone implements a gemini+put: slash titan: --- it's a twin thing
2020-06-17 16:19:53	krixano	Two Plants!!!
2020-06-17 16:20:05	acdw	krixano: that might be my plant that I tested client certs with
2020-06-17 16:20:10	acdw	and didn't do anything else with
2020-06-17 16:20:11		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-17 16:20:22	acdw	I'm also really good at killing my plants in tilde.town
2020-06-17 16:20:30	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 16:20:31	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-17 16:20:31	acdw	and real life
2020-06-17 16:21:09	makeworld	The gemini twins, yess
2020-06-17 16:21:29	solderpunk	acdw: Argh, the twins of Gemini as the two kinds of client!  That's brilliant!
2020-06-17 16:21:45	acdw	:D
2020-06-17 16:22:54	makeworld	Quick, edit the post!
2020-06-17 16:22:58	makeworld	It's your idea now
2020-06-17 16:23:30	acdw	haha
2020-06-17 16:24:06	solderpunk	lol
2020-06-17 16:24:55	companion_cube	solderpunk: what's your goto language? Go?
2020-06-17 16:27:00	solderpunk	Python, I have only started playing with Go fairly recently.
2020-06-17 16:29:40	makeworld	Same here, although I like Go a lot now
2020-06-17 16:29:57	makeworld	I'd reach for it in most situations
2020-06-17 16:30:11	companion_cube	what do you make of the post on generics?
2020-06-17 16:30:56	makeworld	Seems somewhat awkward, but a lot of people want them. I don't know enough about Go and type theory etc to really speak about it
2020-06-17 16:35:21	~tiwesdaeg	go has a great mascot
2020-06-17 16:35:42	acdw	^ that's about the extent of my opinions on go
2020-06-17 16:35:44	~tiwesdaeg	reminds me a lot of Glenda from Plan9
2020-06-17 16:35:54	acdw	It's the same artist I'm pretty sure!
2020-06-17 16:36:02	~tiwesdaeg	these things are important
2020-06-17 16:36:28	krixano	solderpunk, I've added an atom feed for my gemlog, at gemini://pon.ix.tc/~krixano/gemlog/atom.xml
2020-06-17 16:36:28	krixano	I was wondering if you could add it to CAPCOM
2020-06-17 16:36:29	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, you want your branded coffee mug to look nice
2020-06-17 16:36:43	acdw	heck yes
2020-06-17 16:37:14	acdw	tiwesdaeg: what's your glog URL?
2020-06-17 16:37:49	~tiwesdaeg	the thing I just posted to Capcom or my regular gemlog I suck at updating?
2020-06-17 16:38:01	acdw	Capcom! I found the other (tilde.pink) ;)
2020-06-17 16:38:14	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://qd.discordian.de/
2020-06-17 16:38:18	acdw	:D thanks
2020-06-17 16:38:33	acdw	nice art!
2020-06-17 16:38:36	~tiwesdaeg	I originally had it at qd.libraryoferis.org, but I recently picked up the domain for another VPS
2020-06-17 16:38:56	~tiwesdaeg	I stole the apple design and put a k in it
2020-06-17 16:39:08	acdw	oh I liked library of eris! So this is the new spot for it, then, or is there still libraryoferis.org ?
2020-06-17 16:39:10	~tiwesdaeg	the ribbony thing was fun
2020-06-17 16:39:18	~tiwesdaeg	nope, that still there
2020-06-17 16:39:21	acdw	just answered my own question, lol
2020-06-17 16:39:38	~tiwesdaeg	this is my own little project, whereas the library is a big repository for discordian works
2020-06-17 16:39:57	acdw	ASCII art is so much fun! when I get home today I'm going to post my gemified and ascii-art-ified hyptertest
2020-06-17 16:39:59	acdw	nice!
2020-06-17 16:40:11	acdw	discordianism is so interesting and confusing to me
2020-06-17 16:40:25	~tiwesdaeg	sounds like you understand it perfectly!
2020-06-17 16:40:31	acdw	haha awesome
2020-06-17 16:41:03	~tiwesdaeg	ok, time for that bike ride
2020-06-17 16:41:10	acdw	o/
2020-06-17 16:48:27		lickthecat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 16:49:08		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-17 16:49:33	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 16:49:33	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-17 16:51:21		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-17 16:51:27	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 16:51:28	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-17 16:52:26	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 16:54:18		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-17 16:54:28	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 16:54:29	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-17 16:56:42	`epochbot	16:35 <~tiwesdaeg> reminds me a lot of Glenda from Plan9
2020-06-17 16:56:52	`epochbot	was drawn by the same person afair
2020-06-17 16:58:59	solderpunk	krixano: Added your feed to CAPCOM just now, thanks!
2020-06-17 17:00:26	krixano	Thanks!!!
2020-06-17 17:01:09	solderpunk	The cron job that polls feeds only runs 4 times a day, so you may not see your stuff show up for a while, but it should.
2020-06-17 17:01:22	krixano	Ok :)
2020-06-17 17:02:12	krixano	I just seen someone put my youtube mirror on a mirrorlist! Thanks whoever it was!
2020-06-17 17:02:29	paper	o/ that's me
2020-06-17 17:06:10	krixano	I'm currently working on another web mirror
2020-06-17 17:06:30	krixano	For song lyrics
2020-06-17 17:06:34	acdw	awesome!
2020-06-17 17:06:47	paper	nice, ping me when you finish it and I will add it to the list :)
2020-06-17 17:07:15	krixano	Will do, thanks
2020-06-17 17:08:55		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 17:09:41	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 17:12:41	krixano	It will be done today, because it's actually really easy to do
2020-06-17 17:52:17		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 17:55:33	@tomasino	demifiend hang out in here?
2020-06-17 17:55:50	@tomasino	the feed they're feeding into capcom is missing the ".gemini" on the link. 
2020-06-17 18:13:42		sentinel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 18:18:16	paper	ok, so we now officially have spam on gemini: gemini://gempaper.strangled.net/spam/
2020-06-17 18:21:29	krixano	My quota for my YouTube interface has already exceeded, lol
2020-06-17 18:22:20	paper	using an API key?
2020-06-17 18:22:29	krixano	Yeah, you have to for youtube
2020-06-17 18:22:39	paper	well, that sucks
2020-06-17 18:22:53	~tiwesdaeg	mmmm sweaty
2020-06-17 18:22:59	paper	does invidious have api?
2020-06-17 18:24:22	krixano	It does!!!
2020-06-17 18:24:33	paper	:)
2020-06-17 18:24:43	krixano	I'll use that when I get the time to switch over.
2020-06-17 18:25:10	paper	some inspiration: https://github.com/trizen/straw-viewer
2020-06-17 18:25:56	~tiwesdaeg	`epochbot: Renee French
2020-06-17 18:26:03	~tiwesdaeg	I looked it up
2020-06-17 18:27:06	paper	?
2020-06-17 18:29:49	krixano	My quota is 10,000 per day
2020-06-17 18:30:10	krixano	The fact it's already reached that was really unexpected to me.
2020-06-17 18:30:14	paper	what? how could you cross that?
2020-06-17 18:30:33	krixano	You have to pay to get more I believe
2020-06-17 18:30:44	paper	I don't think there are that many gemini users
2020-06-17 18:31:40	krixano	Idk... yesturday it only reached 3000
2020-06-17 18:31:48	krixano	Today it's almost at 10,000
2020-06-17 18:32:03	krixano	So that's a *big* jump
2020-06-17 18:32:23	solderpunk	Hmm...GUS and/or houston, maybe?
2020-06-17 18:32:50	krixano	Hm... that might be it
2020-06-17 18:33:02	paper	robots.txt?
2020-06-17 18:33:06	krixano	I don't even know if I have that one file to tell search engines what to do
2020-06-17 18:33:10	krixano	Yeah, robots.txt
2020-06-17 18:33:16	krixano	Let me check/create that
2020-06-17 18:33:51	krixano	I *do* have a robots.txt, it just allows everything atm
2020-06-17 18:34:03	krixano	How do I get it to not crawl the cgi-bin directory?
2020-06-17 18:35:03	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 18:36:49	krixano	Ok, I *think* I did the robots.txt right this time
2020-06-17 18:37:09	paper	btw, which client requests /favicon.txt?
2020-06-17 19:16:53	krixano	Well this sucks... genius requires OAuth to use their api for anything, and musixmatch only does partial lyrics with the free plan
2020-06-17 19:17:23	krixano	I technically have musixmatch working already though: gemini://pon.ix.tc:1965/cgi-bin/songlyrics.cgi?song&96371672
2020-06-17 19:21:59	krixano	What if I just started from scratch and made a gemini service where people can upload songs, albums, artists, and lyrics.
2020-06-17 19:21:59	krixano	The problem is, we'd have to do a *lot* of work of importing all this information somehow, and it won't have nearly as much as these existing web services
2020-06-17 19:31:59	krixano	It's so stupid how these websites make you pay or be logged in or some other stupid thing just to get information that's freely available on their website. It's just another way to lock you into the web.
2020-06-17 19:46:06		lickthecat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 19:54:06		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 20:08:47	makeworld	paper: I think portal.mozz.us does??
2020-06-17 20:08:51	makeworld	My client will, later
2020-06-17 20:09:10	makeworld	You put an emoji there, btw
2020-06-17 20:10:52	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 20:26:51	paper	makeworld: is there a spec somewhere? should it be ascii art? how big?
2020-06-17 20:27:00	makeworld	Yes there is, one sec
2020-06-17 20:27:11	makeworld	gemini://mozz.us/files/rfc_gemini_favicon.gmi
2020-06-17 20:27:16	makeworld	It's just a single emoji
2020-06-17 20:27:24	makeworld	With optional whitespa
2020-06-17 20:27:33	makeworld	*with an optional new line at the end
2020-06-17 20:27:51	paper	TIL
2020-06-17 20:29:35	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 20:30:33		dodolz has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-06-17 20:35:28	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 21:13:45		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-17 21:17:03	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 21:17:04	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-17 21:33:11		solderpunk has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 21:38:01		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-17 21:58:54	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure of portal.mozz.us is setup for it
2020-06-17 21:59:38	~tiwesdaeg	I've got a favicon.txt and I'm not seeing any changes
2020-06-17 22:10:12	acdw	it might take an hour
2020-06-17 22:10:27	acdw	I think portal.mozz.us only polls on the hour
2020-06-17 22:10:45	acdw	but it does work: gemini://makeworld.gq/cgi-bin/gemini-irc (next to the url bar)
2020-06-17 22:13:42	@tomasino	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/cosmic.voyage/
2020-06-17 22:13:47	@tomasino	i think the rocket will be a popular one
2020-06-17 22:13:58	@tomasino	tilde.black has the black hole: https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/tilde.black/
2020-06-17 22:15:26	acdw	Part of me wants to implement favicon.txt in bollux but it seems like a lot of work
2020-06-17 22:16:10	@tomasino	i hadn't realized anyone was doing it until you pointed out mozz
2020-06-17 22:23:10	~tiwesdaeg	and you guys have a file called favicon.txt in the root folder with a single emoji on the first line and maybe a newline character?
2020-06-17 22:26:56	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-17 22:27:22	@tomasino	i've had mine there for a while on cosmic & black since whoever brought it up on the ML
2020-06-17 22:35:18	krixano	makeworld, does your md2gemini do anything with html embeded in markdown files?
2020-06-17 22:35:55	makeworld	krixano: Yes, I think it displays it in a preformatted block
2020-06-17 22:35:58	makeworld	Let me double check
2020-06-17 22:36:26	krixano	No, I mean, like, if someone uses <strong style="whatever"> instead of **
2020-06-17 22:37:06	krixano	(or like, the use of <br>, as another example)
2020-06-17 22:37:09	makeworld	Oh it just leaves that as is
2020-06-17 22:37:28	krixano	Ok, thanks.
2020-06-17 22:37:42	makeworld	I should actually make it so it removes it if you use the --plain option
2020-06-17 22:37:55	krixano	Unfortunately, the mirror I'm making that uses markdown files uses html tags for things markdown can't do
2020-06-17 22:38:02	krixano	Ok, cool! That'll work better
2020-06-17 22:38:06	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-17 22:38:15	makeworld	Okay hold, just let me add that and push a release
2020-06-17 22:38:20	makeworld	*hold on
2020-06-17 22:38:27	makeworld	Cause right now it doesn't strip html on --plain
2020-06-17 22:39:08	krixano	Wait, would it strip without --plain, because I don't want plain
2020-06-17 22:40:26	krixano	As in, I want to keep astrisks, but I don't want to keep html. Sorry, this is getting complicated :)
2020-06-17 22:41:28	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-17 22:41:52	makeworld	I will add a strip html option
2020-06-17 22:42:08	krixano	Cool, thanks!
2020-06-17 22:42:22	krixano	Has anybody done an html2gemini tool?
2020-06-17 22:42:35	krixano	I might try that. I haven't parsed html before, so it might be fun to do.
2020-06-17 22:42:51	acdw	 You could use Pandoc probably, if you don't mind that h e f t
2020-06-17 22:43:56	makeworld	krixano: Unfortunately it'd be very complex
2020-06-17 22:44:14	krixano	What, the html2gemini thing?
2020-06-17 22:44:17	makeworld	My advice for most formats is to use pandoc to convert to markdown then use md2gemini ;)
2020-06-17 22:44:19	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-17 22:44:22	acdw	HTML is vvvv complicated
2020-06-17 22:44:23	makeworld	It could be, anyway
2020-06-17 22:44:43	krixano	Hm... I still want to try it
2020-06-17 22:44:49	acdw	Good luck!
2020-06-17 22:53:29		lickthecat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 22:53:48	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 22:58:48		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 23:17:08	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 23:17:11	krixano	Gaah, HTML5 has so many tags
2020-06-17 23:17:29	makeworld	Haha
2020-06-17 23:17:37	makeworld	Sorry, I was predicting that
2020-06-17 23:17:54	makeworld	Your feature is almost ready btw
2020-06-17 23:18:01	krixano	Cool, thanks!
2020-06-17 23:19:54	krixano	There are 3 main categories that I've put tags in so far: completely ignoreable, semantic (ignore semantic but keep stuff inside tag), and non-ignorable
2020-06-17 23:22:05	makeworld	Alright md2gemini v1.4.0 is live, you can install it with pip.
2020-06-17 23:22:12	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/md2gemini/releases/tag/v1.4.0
2020-06-17 23:22:21	krixano	Yay, thanks!
2020-06-17 23:22:35	makeworld	You're welcome!
2020-06-17 23:22:44	makeworld	Nice to have a project people use :)
2020-06-17 23:22:58	makeworld	Feel free to file issues for any bugs or features you want
2020-06-17 23:23:10	makeworld	Esp. when I'm not on IRC or for big stuff
2020-06-17 23:28:25	krixano	Does your tool support footnote syntax?
2020-06-17 23:29:07	makeworld	Markdown footnote syntax?
2020-06-17 23:29:13	krixano	Yeah
2020-06-17 23:29:30	makeworld	It doesn't, but it could I think
2020-06-17 23:29:56	makeworld	https://mistune.readthedocs.io/en/latest/plugins.html#footnotes
2020-06-17 23:30:03	makeworld	That's the docs for the parser I'm using
2020-06-17 23:30:15	makeworld	So it supports that kind of footnote syntax, although my tool doesn't enable that right now
2020-06-17 23:30:16	krixano	Ok. I might need that, I'm not sure yet.
2020-06-17 23:30:36	krixano	Yeah, that's the footnote syntax used in the markdown files I'm trying to convert
2020-06-17 23:30:55	makeworld	Tbh that should work decently in Gemini without changes
2020-06-17 23:31:11	krixano	Actually, you're right. I didn't think about that
2020-06-17 23:31:24	makeworld	Links in the footnote might kinda get messed up though
2020-06-17 23:33:31	makeworld	Try and let me know, maybe file an issue
2020-06-17 23:33:39	krixano	Ok, thanks
2020-06-17 23:35:36		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 23:35:40	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 23:36:03		tuesday has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-17 23:38:26	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 23:46:15	dozens	makeworld: the emoji to email sed script on your webpage is really clever. how does it work?
2020-06-17 23:47:20	makeworld	Ha thanks!
2020-06-17 23:47:31	makeworld	I first saw it on mathilde.website, which is down now I think
2020-06-17 23:47:38	dozens	rip
2020-06-17 23:48:06	makeworld	The sed `y` function does a 1:1 map of two sets of characters
2020-06-17 23:48:18	makeworld	And takes input of characters from the first set
2020-06-17 23:48:24	makeworld	And converts them to the second set
2020-06-17 23:48:41	makeworld	So you jumble your email characters, removing and duplicates, then assign them new ones
2020-06-17 23:48:49	makeworld	Then echo the translated characters
2020-06-17 23:49:26	makeworld	It's the same as `tr` actually
2020-06-17 23:49:35	dozens	ooooooh i get it
2020-06-17 23:49:48	makeworld	Keeps non nerds and bots out haha
2020-06-17 23:50:12	makeworld	Also the emojis in the sed command almost tell a love story? I tried my best lol
2020-06-17 23:50:36	makeworld	So then the emojis that are echoed tell a new story as determined by my email address...
2020-06-17 23:50:42	makeworld	It's very poetic, you see
2020-06-17 23:52:28	krixano	Gaah, I hate python so much
2020-06-17 23:52:47	dozens	i like it. i might riff on it and put something like it on my site :)
2020-06-17 23:53:05	dozens	krixano: have you stopped to think about how python thinks of you??
2020-06-17 23:53:44		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-17 23:53:44	krixano	I'm getting a parsing error about EOF at the end of the file, lmao
2020-06-17 23:54:25	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-17 23:55:37	krixano	You think good error message would have been solved in the year 2020, but apparently not!
2020-06-17 23:59:30	makeworld	Hmm that's weird
2020-06-17 23:59:39	makeworld	Send the error, or put it in a paste?
2020-06-17 23:59:53	krixano	I figured it out already, but thanks anyways
2020-06-17 23:59:59	krixano	It was a missing parentheses
2020-06-18 00:00:04	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-06-18 00:00:54	krixano	Honestly, that error message was just unacceptable
2020-06-18 00:10:53	makeworld	Haha
2020-06-18 00:11:00	makeworld	Yess my client has history for each tab now
2020-06-18 00:11:13	makeworld	With luck I'll be able to release the first version of this tomorrow
2020-06-18 00:11:40	companion_cube	what's it written in?
2020-06-18 00:12:11	makeworld	Go
2020-06-18 00:12:27	makeworld	It's inspired by Bombadillo, it's a terminal client
2020-06-18 00:12:40	makeworld	But it aims to be as fancy and featureful as possible
2020-06-18 00:13:01	makeworld	While Bombadillo takes the opposite route and has no deps, for example
2020-06-18 00:13:09	companion_cube	ah, I see
2020-06-18 00:13:16	companion_cube	I use castor right now, but it's a bit buggy
2020-06-18 00:13:20	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-18 00:13:28	makeworld	Kristall is nice for graphical browsing
2020-06-18 00:13:43	companion_cube	it's qt based, right? sounds nice
2020-06-18 00:13:49	makeworld	But personally I really enjoy that I can quickly read stuff in the terminal, and that it actually looks good for Gemini
2020-06-18 00:13:50	makeworld	Yes
2020-06-18 00:13:51	krixano	Kristall is hand-down the best gui browser so far
2020-06-18 00:13:55	⚡	makeworld afk, ttyl
2020-06-18 00:15:04	companion_cube	I'm just too lazy to install it manually
2020-06-18 00:16:03	krixano	I believe someone setup a github action for ubuntu
2020-06-18 00:17:12	krixano	Yeah, there's an action that auto-builds for ubuntu
2020-06-18 00:17:31	companion_cube	yeah but I want an AUR package :)
2020-06-18 00:17:33	companion_cube	oh well
2020-06-18 00:17:53	krixano	Idk if it's putting the resulting binary/zip anywhere yet though
2020-06-18 00:34:12	lickthecat	aur is c o o l
2020-06-18 00:46:02	Sario528	So I just found Gemini today, and I'm actually rather excited about exploring it further
2020-06-18 00:46:42	@tomasino	fantastic
2020-06-18 00:46:43	@tomasino	welcome
2020-06-18 00:50:06	Sario528	I'm looking at the cli clients, which do you think would be best for a beginner?
2020-06-18 00:50:19	@tomasino	hmmm
2020-06-18 00:50:27	@tomasino	av98 is probably the easiest to install and use
2020-06-18 00:50:43	@tomasino	pip3 install AV-98
2020-06-18 00:50:46	@tomasino	done & done
2020-06-18 00:51:01	Sario528	That is nice and easy
2020-06-18 00:51:23	@tomasino	bollux is made in bash and "just works" on most systems
2020-06-18 00:51:48	@tomasino	there are other easy-to-use ones, but they're harder to build
2020-06-18 00:52:46	krixano	bombadillo is in the AUR
2020-06-18 00:53:01	krixano	And it has precompiled executables too
2020-06-18 00:53:09	krixano	http://bombadillo.colorfield.space/releases/binaries.html
2020-06-18 00:53:12	@tomasino	oh, that's handy now
2020-06-18 00:53:23	@tomasino	bombadillo was a bit of a pain to build before
2020-06-18 00:53:25	@tomasino	that's great
2020-06-18 00:54:50	Sario528	Easy to build is a good feature for me right now. I'm working on my phone, so I have limited capability for complex stuff
2020-06-18 00:55:18	@tomasino	i just built and installed the in-progress android client deedum
2020-06-18 00:55:27	@tomasino	it's still very bare bones and a royal pain to get running
2020-06-18 01:03:44	Sario528	I'm working out of Termux.
2020-06-18 01:08:56	makeworld	To be honest I'd say Bombadillo is the easiest for a beginner
2020-06-18 01:09:19	makeworld	Over AV-98, because it's not line based
2020-06-18 01:09:25	@tomasino	now that it's so easy to install, yeah, maybe
2020-06-18 01:09:27	makeworld	But I haven't used AV-98 in a while
2020-06-18 01:09:50	makeworld	My client is terminal, it'll be coming out tomorrow I think
2020-06-18 01:10:10	makeworld	Just got to add Input handling
2020-06-18 01:10:25	@tomasino	fun!
2020-06-18 01:11:43	makeworld	Yeah, it's been great
2020-06-18 01:11:50	makeworld	I'm new to TUIs in general, so that was cool
2020-06-18 01:12:09	makeworld	And I get to learn about browser type stuff
2020-06-18 01:13:12	Sario528	av98 is up and running, so far doing ok
2020-06-18 01:13:39	@tomasino	awesome!
2020-06-18 01:39:28		[tomasino away: unplugged]
2020-06-18 02:12:52	krixano	makeworld, I'm having an issue
2020-06-18 02:13:45	krixano	You know what, nvm
2020-06-18 02:38:06		anelki has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-18 02:39:52	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 03:08:59	makeworld	krixano: All good?
2020-06-18 03:09:02	makeworld	I see some issues were filed
2020-06-18 03:09:23	krixano	Yeah, I filed some issues, but that was unrelated to the issue above (which wasn't really an issue)
2020-06-18 03:09:27	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-06-18 03:09:35	makeworld	Thanks for filing! I'll respond in those threads
2020-06-18 03:09:45	krixano	Ok :) Thanks!
2020-06-18 03:09:58	krixano	Btw, I've *basically* finished the project!!! Your library was *very* useful!
2020-06-18 03:10:45		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 03:11:52	makeworld	I'm so glad!
2020-06-18 03:12:00	makeworld	Feels cool
2020-06-18 03:12:08	makeworld	Could you remind what the project was?
2020-06-18 03:14:41	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 03:15:10	krixano	I haven't officially announced it yet.
2020-06-18 03:15:22	krixano	I will like right now, on the mailing list
2020-06-18 03:16:00	makeworld	Alright, I'll be watching!
2020-06-18 03:17:12	krixano	It's not like a fancy or big project, but it'll still be useful and cool
2020-06-18 03:17:27	krixano	I got permission from the developer to go ahead and do a mirror of a site, basically
2020-06-18 03:17:55	makeworld	Ooh
2020-06-18 03:31:43	makeworld	Gn, all
2020-06-18 03:31:49	⚡	makeworld waves
2020-06-18 03:32:31	krixano	Goodnight!
2020-06-18 03:56:45	▬▬▶	christian_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 03:56:57		christian_ has left #gemini
2020-06-18 03:57:25	▬▬▶	krixano2 has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 03:58:53		krixano2 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 03:59:04	▬▬▶	krixano2 has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 04:00:52		krixano has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 04:01:25		krixano2 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 04:01:38	▬▬▶	krixano has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 04:24:41	krixano	I've announced on the mailing list the new Odin-lang.org mirror for gemini, which you can find at gemini://pon.ix.tc/odin
2020-06-18 04:35:42		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 06:20:32		krixano has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-18 06:20:48	▬▬▶	krixano has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 06:27:04		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-18 06:29:46	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 06:29:46	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-18 07:50:39	paper	is defdefred here? we need to talk.
2020-06-18 09:14:42		bard has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-18 11:05:11	xq	hello geminauts
2020-06-18 11:05:34	Sario528	good morning
2020-06-18 11:09:23	@tomasino	Yo
2020-06-18 11:31:38		[tomasino back: gone 09:52:10]
2020-06-18 11:34:59	@tomasino	so, xq...
2020-06-18 11:35:15	xq	hey tomasino!
2020-06-18 11:35:22	xq	i fucked up the auto-cert stuff in kristall
2020-06-18 11:35:23	xq	i know :D
2020-06-18 11:35:23	@tomasino	if i start playing an mp3 in krystall directly, then click "back" and do other stuff, the music keeps going
2020-06-18 11:35:30	xq	oh yeah
2020-06-18 11:35:31	xq	that thing …
2020-06-18 11:35:32	xq	:D
2020-06-18 11:35:35	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-18 11:35:36	xq	enjoy! *grin*
2020-06-18 11:35:39	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-18 11:35:48	@tomasino	undocumented feature
2020-06-18 11:36:26	@tomasino	we'll see if my botany plant survives the great auto-cert disruption of 2020
2020-06-18 11:36:31	⚡	tomasino shrugs
2020-06-18 11:37:06	@tomasino	killing that tab kills the music, btw
2020-06-18 11:37:10	@tomasino	just opened a new tab
2020-06-18 11:37:12	xq	haha
2020-06-18 11:37:12	@tomasino	victory
2020-06-18 11:37:18	xq	yeah, i have to insert a stop there :D
2020-06-18 11:37:36	xq	> Your plant was recently watered by solderpunk.
2020-06-18 11:37:37	xq	phew
2020-06-18 11:37:47	@tomasino	oh nice
2020-06-18 11:38:30	xq	> You water tomasino's plant for them.
2020-06-18 11:38:41	@tomasino	double nice!
2020-06-18 11:38:51	@tomasino	i'm not sure how to view the status of my own plant without the cert
2020-06-18 11:39:01	@tomasino	it's all in the /app area
2020-06-18 11:39:15	xq	i think you can't
2020-06-18 11:39:21	@tomasino	ahh, well, thanks for watering!
2020-06-18 11:39:31	@tomasino	good ol' stacie
2020-06-18 11:39:51	xq	pushed a small fix
2020-06-18 11:47:00	@tomasino	woo
2020-06-18 11:47:49	@tomasino	my plant is back
2020-06-18 11:47:50	@tomasino	yay!
2020-06-18 11:49:56	xq	:)
2020-06-18 11:50:12	xq	not perfect atm, but i keep the spec adjustments in Kristall
2020-06-18 11:54:38	@tomasino	if anyone here didn't notice, konpeito.media is back up
2020-06-18 11:54:43	@tomasino	and there's a new mix for summer
2020-06-18 12:23:02	~tiwesdaeg	good morning all
2020-06-18 12:23:25	~tiwesdaeg	poked cat in the eye enough times?
2020-06-18 12:23:52	@tomasino	hah, he got motivated to work on some gopher stuff, so while he was in the mood I gave a pointer or two to get his jetforce updated and then it was easy
2020-06-18 12:25:10	~tiwesdaeg	I realized the other day my geomyidae version is very out of date
2020-06-18 12:27:24	~tiwesdaeg	ooo, new build errors with kristall
2020-06-18 12:27:41	@tomasino	oh?
2020-06-18 12:27:46	@tomasino	mine was all smooth
2020-06-18 12:28:19	@tomasino	i've penciled in on my todo list to add an atom feed to my gemini capsule on black
2020-06-18 12:28:34	xq	tiwesdaeg: what's up?
2020-06-18 12:28:42	~tiwesdaeg	i just did a git pull this morning
2020-06-18 12:28:47	~tiwesdaeg	let me get you a link
2020-06-18 12:29:13	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QTk.txt
2020-06-18 12:30:36	xq	oh
2020-06-18 12:30:38	xq	that's good!
2020-06-18 12:30:41	~tiwesdaeg	this is manjaro
2020-06-18 12:30:54	xq	yeah i've added some safety measures
2020-06-18 12:30:57	xq	you encountered bugs
2020-06-18 12:31:00	xq	that need to be fixed
2020-06-18 12:31:00	xq	:D
2020-06-18 12:31:05	xq	will fix that this evening
2020-06-18 12:31:30	~tiwesdaeg	those darn bugs
2020-06-18 12:33:02	xq	yeah
2020-06-18 12:33:07	xq	i've added security measures against that
2020-06-18 12:33:13	xq	(which is why you now get an error instead of a warning)
2020-06-18 12:33:28	~tiwesdaeg	still getting warning too ;P
2020-06-18 12:33:47	xq	haha
2020-06-18 12:33:52	xq	yeah, i have to make a clean rebuild
2020-06-18 12:37:56	~tiwesdaeg	xq: do you mind if I poke at the kristall icon to make it more visible in both light and dark themes?
2020-06-18 12:38:22	~tiwesdaeg	you can totally chuck my suggestions in the bin
2020-06-18 12:38:44	xq	you mean the app icon?
2020-06-18 12:38:47	xq	or the whole icon theme?
2020-06-18 12:38:52	~tiwesdaeg	app icon
2020-06-18 12:38:58	xq	go ahead!
2020-06-18 12:39:00	xq	make that awesome!
2020-06-18 12:39:11	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 12:39:14	acdw	g'morning all
2020-06-18 12:39:18	xq	on icon themes: i have a way to fix that icons look crap on dark theme i think
2020-06-18 12:39:19	~tiwesdaeg	good morning
2020-06-18 12:39:20	xq	hey acdw
2020-06-18 12:39:27	@julienxx	hi!
2020-06-18 12:39:32	@tomasino	Hi hi
2020-06-18 12:39:36	~tiwesdaeg	they aren't too bad right now
2020-06-18 12:39:40	acdw	I just posted the gemification of Vault Guard: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw/vault-guard/
2020-06-18 12:39:44	acdw	hey hey :)
2020-06-18 12:39:58	paper	ji
2020-06-18 12:40:00	paper	hi
2020-06-18 12:40:39	@tomasino	cyoa!
2020-06-18 13:03:43	Sario528	Question about the mailing list: I've tried to join a couple of times, but I never could get the link to work. Is there another way to join it?
2020-06-18 13:04:44	@tomasino	this link isn't working for you? https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/listinfo/gemini
2020-06-18 13:11:48	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 13:15:47	Sario528	tomasino: that link worked, thank you. The link I was having trouble with was on gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-06-18 13:16:01	paper	I didn't get the last 2 emails, maybe something was wrong
2020-06-18 13:26:08		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 13:33:41	~tiwesdaeg	xq: just an idea https://ttm.sh/QT7.png
2020-06-18 13:35:48	xq	sexey!
2020-06-18 13:36:46	~tiwesdaeg	are you big on blue?
2020-06-18 13:39:23	xq	i love blue and purple
2020-06-18 13:39:31	@tomasino	they love you too
2020-06-18 13:39:40	xq	<3
2020-06-18 13:42:45	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QTJ.png
2020-06-18 13:43:21	xq	previous one is better
2020-06-18 13:43:23	~tiwesdaeg	I actually redrew the whole thing so I could round the corners and make the lines thinner
2020-06-18 13:43:26	xq	looks more crystally
2020-06-18 13:43:37	xq	wasn't that possible with the SVG path?
2020-06-18 13:43:58	~tiwesdaeg	who knows?
2020-06-18 13:44:13	~tiwesdaeg	I know how to round the stroke
2020-06-18 13:46:18	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QTo.png
2020-06-18 13:46:29	~tiwesdaeg	less greenish blue than the last one
2020-06-18 13:46:35	~tiwesdaeg	err, one before last
2020-06-18 13:46:38	xq	quite bright
2020-06-18 13:46:43	xq	(which is not bad)
2020-06-18 13:47:44	~tiwesdaeg	I only shaded the inner-outer edges, not the crossing lines
2020-06-18 13:50:41	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QTr.png
2020-06-18 13:50:56	~tiwesdaeg	a little darker, but still very visible with both dark and light themes
2020-06-18 13:51:26	xq	nice, i like that version
2020-06-18 13:51:45	~tiwesdaeg	let me try one more thing with the shading
2020-06-18 13:55:33	mhj	Yo Gemmas
2020-06-18 13:56:40	~tiwesdaeg	nope, I don't like that
2020-06-18 13:58:07	~tiwesdaeg	xq: https://ttm.sh/QTs.svg
2020-06-18 13:58:13	~tiwesdaeg	if you want to play with it
2020-06-18 13:58:21	~tiwesdaeg	now the garden calls
2020-06-18 13:58:41	xq	looking good, will include that
2020-06-18 14:05:29	@tomasino	okay, who has a gemini atom reader
2020-06-18 14:05:31	@tomasino	i'm ready for a test
2020-06-18 14:05:39	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/atom.xml
2020-06-18 14:12:38	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 15:01:03	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: I think just capcom right now
2020-06-18 15:01:28	@tomasino	i'm on now
2020-06-18 15:01:29	~tiwesdaeg	xq said 0.5 release of kristall should have one
2020-06-18 15:01:33	@tomasino	solderpunk added me and it's working
2020-06-18 15:01:34	@tomasino	huzzah
2020-06-18 15:01:44	~tiwesdaeg	did you use gemfeed?
2020-06-18 15:01:53	@tomasino	no, did it by hand
2020-06-18 15:02:05	~tiwesdaeg	I set one up with him yesterday
2020-06-18 15:02:07	@tomasino	i have different folders for different types of content
2020-06-18 15:24:19	acdw	tomasino: just now seeing your reply to the five questions. that is seriously an involved answer! I'm thinking I should go back and think harder about that first one
2020-06-18 15:24:29	acdw	(Also Kesha's newer stuff is AMAZING)
2020-06-18 15:24:48	@tomasino	Right!?
2020-06-18 15:25:17	@tomasino	I'm trying to treat my Gemini experience more long form
2020-06-18 15:25:18	acdw	I actually (a) didn't realize it came out 3 YEARS ago (oof) and (b) haven't listened to the whole album, just the singles on Youtube
2020-06-18 15:25:27	acdw	well keep it up! it's great
2020-06-18 15:25:31	@tomasino	Thanks
2020-06-18 15:26:22	acdw	So this 5-question thing...is it kind of just..whoever wants to ask q's can ask em, whenever? or do yall try to space em out on Gopher or what? b/c I could maybe come up w/ some but
2020-06-18 15:27:00	@tomasino	Just do as you like
2020-06-18 15:27:05	@tomasino	No special rules
2020-06-18 15:27:05	acdw	:D
2020-06-18 15:27:06	acdw	nice
2020-06-18 15:27:25	acdw	I guess I'm coming at this from like, a centralized social media mindset, with rules and stuff
2020-06-18 15:27:34	acdw	but it's all just people in gemspace
2020-06-18 15:43:11	@tomasino	Exactly
2020-06-18 15:50:17	makeworld	krixano: v1.5.0 of md2gemini released with your feature requests :)
2020-06-18 15:50:27	krixano	Thanks!
2020-06-18 15:50:31	makeworld	Let me know if you can reproduce that html stripping bug, otherwise I'll close it
2020-06-18 15:50:36	makeworld	Welcome
2020-06-18 15:51:24	krixano	So, I have an idea to try to create tamagotchi for gopher. I had a tamachotchi when I was younger, and thought it was really cool. It was one of the version that could connect to each other I believe.
2020-06-18 15:51:58	acdw	YES
2020-06-18 15:52:11	acdw	that would be the absolute coolest
2020-06-18 15:53:07	makeworld	Woah yeah
2020-06-18 15:53:13	makeworld	With ASCII art and everything
2020-06-18 15:53:14	makeworld	Go for it
2020-06-18 15:53:19	@tomasino	On Gemini with client certs like astrobotany you can name them and everything
2020-06-18 15:53:39	krixano	Well.... I'm not good at ascii art, so someone else will have to help me with that :)
2020-06-18 15:53:54	acdw	I'm just beginning with ascii art but I'd love to help!
2020-06-18 15:54:23	krixano	The only thing is, I don't actually know how to handle cert stuff in CGI or if I need to create a full gemini server to do that.
2020-06-18 15:54:56	acdw	oof yeah idk re that
2020-06-18 15:55:49	krixano	So, each version has different stuff. I was planning on just going with the one I grew up with, which I *think* was the Tamagotchi Connection V4, but if people want a certain version, than I'm happy to take suggestions!
2020-06-18 15:56:57	@tomasino	i think the astrobotany code is linked
2020-06-18 15:57:02	@tomasino	maybe you could start from there and modify it
2020-06-18 15:57:12	@tomasino	as for ascii art... put out a call for contributions?
2020-06-18 15:58:31	krixano	astrobotany isn't cgi, it's its own gemini server it looks like
2020-06-18 15:58:44	acdw	I did not even know there were different versions of tomagotchi
2020-06-18 15:59:21	krixano	Yeah, here's a wiki that has each version: https://tamagotchi.fandom.com/wiki/Category:List_of_all_Tamagotchi_Releases
2020-06-18 15:59:46	acdw	I think mine was the Original (1996) version
2020-06-18 16:00:27	acdw	oh man that website is giving me major nostalgia
2020-06-18 16:06:33	acdw	     ____
2020-06-18 16:06:33	acdw	  __/. . \
2020-06-18 16:06:33	acdw	 (___     )
2020-06-18 16:06:33	acdw	 (___     L
2020-06-18 16:06:33	acdw	     |     \
2020-06-18 16:06:33	acdw	     |   V  )
2020-06-18 16:06:33	acdw	      \ __ /
2020-06-18 16:06:33	acdw	       v  v
2020-06-18 16:06:35	acdw	BOOM
2020-06-18 16:06:48	acdw	my favorite one, the ducky
2020-06-18 16:06:52	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-18 16:08:30	krixano	I'm wondering if someone can help me with this CGI error I'm getting.
2020-06-18 16:09:18	krixano	If you go to gemini://pon.ix.tc/cgi-bin/howdoi.cgi I get this CGI error, but I literally have no idea why it's happening.
2020-06-18 16:09:54	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: what does the code look like?
2020-06-18 16:10:42	krixano	It's a python script, so you should be able to download from that link and see it.
2020-06-18 16:11:17	~tiwesdaeg	it doesn't work like that
2020-06-18 16:11:28	krixano	Yeah, I know... I'm just being stupid
2020-06-18 16:11:29	~tiwesdaeg	I get whatever the server decides to display
2020-06-18 16:11:39	krixano	Let me put it in cgi-bin
2020-06-18 16:12:01	~tiwesdaeg	you could upload it to ttm.sh
2020-06-18 16:12:45	krixano	It's already in cgi-bin, without executable permision set
2020-06-18 16:12:57	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 16:13:00	krixano	gemini://pon.ix.tc/cgi-bin/main.py
2020-06-18 16:15:20	krixano	And it works in the terminal (aside from the environment variables)
2020-06-18 16:17:27	~tiwesdaeg	I'm poking at it
2020-06-18 16:17:50	krixano	What is ttm.sh?
2020-06-18 16:22:32	lickthecat	krixano: its a url shortener and image/file mirror people also use it as a pastebin
2020-06-18 16:22:41	krixano	Oh, cool!
2020-06-18 16:23:54	~tiwesdaeg	could it be something to do with the environment variables?
2020-06-18 16:24:08	~tiwesdaeg	hmm, it should still print out though
2020-06-18 16:24:38	krixano	Yeah, cuz I'm checking if they're NoneType (or whatever the weird python thing is called)
2020-06-18 16:25:08	krixano	The only thing I could think of is it's not printing out the status code and mimetype line correctly or something, idk
2020-06-18 16:25:39	~tiwesdaeg	on libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/item.cgi, I just have a shell script that takes the query input and runs a python script
2020-06-18 16:26:24	krixano	I could try that, but I really don't like shell scripts, lol
2020-06-18 16:27:19	krixano	Thanks for the help!
2020-06-18 16:27:23	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://discordian.de/cgi-bin/test.cgi
2020-06-18 16:27:32	~tiwesdaeg	it's your 20 line
2020-06-18 16:27:48	krixano	What's wrong with it?
2020-06-18 16:27:52	~tiwesdaeg	print("20 text/gemini\r\n")
2020-06-18 16:27:56	~tiwesdaeg	I put that at the top
2020-06-18 16:28:16	~tiwesdaeg	yours looks all complicated  ;P
2020-06-18 16:28:26	@tomasino	pb!
2020-06-18 16:28:29	krixano	How is it complicated, it's almost the same
2020-06-18 16:28:34	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/tomasino/pb
2020-06-18 16:28:45	@tomasino	ttm.sh related ^
2020-06-18 16:29:03	krixano	Mine just has a charset and lang
2020-06-18 16:29:33	~tiwesdaeg	that line works
2020-06-18 16:29:37	krixano	It's literally the same thing I use for all of my other stuff, unless the problem is the crappy end thing python uses for some dumb reason
2020-06-18 16:29:38	~tiwesdaeg	it's nested in the if statement
2020-06-18 16:29:48	~tiwesdaeg	so, it's never being called up?
2020-06-18 16:30:01	~tiwesdaeg	what is that end thing?
2020-06-18 16:30:05	~tiwesdaeg	I've never used it
2020-06-18 16:30:16	krixano	No, that's not it, because I just copied and pasted it to the top and it still errors
2020-06-18 16:30:23	~tiwesdaeg	I did too
2020-06-18 16:30:30	~tiwesdaeg	refresh my link
2020-06-18 16:30:37	~tiwesdaeg	I put it on top of my old one
2020-06-18 16:30:39	krixano	It's pythons stupid thing because print automatically puts a new line on end unless you specify that parameter.
2020-06-18 16:30:52	krixano	You know, becaues they couldn't just make a printf and println
2020-06-18 16:30:57	@tomasino	print vs printf ?
2020-06-18 16:31:29	krixano	Google results show there's no printf in python
2020-06-18 16:31:37	@tomasino	import sys
2020-06-18 16:31:37	@tomasino	def printf(format, *args):
2020-06-18 16:31:37	@tomasino	    sys.stdout.write(format % args)
2020-06-18 16:31:40	@tomasino	done!
2020-06-18 16:32:08	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: what's your server?
2020-06-18 16:32:09	krixano	Well, sure, you can make your own function, but why isn't this **in python already** like literally *every* other language? LMAO
2020-06-18 16:32:22	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-18 16:32:23	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-18 16:32:39	krixano	Python is such a crappy language, imo. Sorry to python-lovers, but I just hate it so much
2020-06-18 16:33:27	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: can you do this in shell script?
2020-06-18 16:33:34	~tiwesdaeg	if you want to keep this scripty
2020-06-18 16:33:42	krixano	I'm testing the change to printf really quickly
2020-06-18 16:34:31	krixano	You know what, lmao
2020-06-18 16:35:00	krixano	I just seen the bug... the end ="" thing did work, I just didn't have \r\n only in the else branch, but I had it for all the other "pages"
2020-06-18 16:35:37	dkibi	python has 3*10^6 ways of formating strings, but I don't think a printf is needed given that some of those ways are quite compact
2020-06-18 16:35:46	~tiwesdaeg	ahh
2020-06-18 16:36:00	krixano	It is if print automatically puts new lines at the end of stuff!
2020-06-18 16:36:10	dkibi	Python is a language that frustrats me: I'm suprisingly productive when using it despite it's shortcommings
2020-06-18 16:36:20	krixano	(and yes, I know about the stupid "end = " thing, but still!)
2020-06-18 16:36:27	dkibi	you can do end="
2020-06-18 16:36:48	dkibi	end = "\r\n"
2020-06-18 16:36:55	dkibi	yeah end is very annoying
2020-06-18 16:37:17	dkibi	there should be put defined as print(..., end ='') or something like that
2020-06-18 16:40:14	krixano	xq, a good feature might be being able to see the exact response from the server
2020-06-18 16:40:31	xq	you mean unparsed?
2020-06-18 16:40:37	krixano	Yeah
2020-06-18 16:40:40	xq	without any head processing?
2020-06-18 16:40:43	xq	why?
2020-06-18 16:40:45	krixano	Yeah
2020-06-18 16:41:23	krixano	So that I could see if I'm doing stuff wrong. It's also useful for dynamically generated content to see what mime type, what charset, etc. And for seeing if you have a typo in the response.
2020-06-18 16:41:30	xq	openssl s_client helps
2020-06-18 16:41:50	krixano	Why would I need that if I could have a nice browser do it for me? :)
2020-06-18 16:41:55	xq	Kristall is not meant as a development client, we have far better options than that ;)
2020-06-18 16:42:03	xq	because it's easier than a browser to use
2020-06-18 16:42:09	krixano	I disagree
2020-06-18 16:42:23	krixano	*Especially* for Windows users
2020-06-18 16:43:56	krixano	Ok, so I *thought* I figured out the problem, but I didn't. So I'm guessing the python script just can't be run by itself, so I'll have to do that batch script weirdness
2020-06-18 16:44:02	krixano	* bash
2020-06-18 16:44:11	xq	i don't think i will implement that in Kristall
2020-06-18 16:44:18	xq	i don't store any of the response atm
2020-06-18 16:44:32	krixano	Then how do you parse it?
2020-06-18 16:44:32	xq	and i don't really see how to implement that without rewriting everything
2020-06-18 16:44:36	xq	on-the-fly
2020-06-18 16:44:41	krixano	What?
2020-06-18 16:44:59	xq	also, keep in mind that that Kristall is built to handle an arbitrary amount of protocols
2020-06-18 16:45:08	xq	stream parser
2020-06-18 16:45:16	xq	read until the right stuff is there or error out
2020-06-18 16:45:20	krixano	Hm... ok. That's kinda ok imo, but ok
2020-06-18 16:45:39	xq	it's the easiest way, i don't store a full response
2020-06-18 16:45:42	krixano	That's kinda odd... I can't type today
2020-06-18 16:47:33	xq	hm?
2020-06-18 16:47:41	xq	if you want a debug client for windows, make one!
2020-06-18 16:47:48	xq	It's really not hard with qt
2020-06-18 16:47:55	xq	especially if you don't want *any* client at akk
2020-06-18 16:48:01	xq	but just an SSL terminal
2020-06-18 16:48:10	xq	also check out if netcat does TLS
2020-06-18 16:48:12	krixano	Well, you literally don't even need anything for a "debug client" for gemini
2020-06-18 16:48:13	krixano	lol
2020-06-18 16:48:14	xq	if yes, you can also just use netcat
2020-06-18 16:48:33	krixano	It'll literally just be displaying the full response, that's like... it
2020-06-18 16:48:49	krixano	Not worth the time making a "debug client" that does something so simple
2020-06-18 16:49:14	xq	it's less work to build a debug client than to change Kristall to display hte full response :D
2020-06-18 16:49:27	krixano	I'm not sure that's true
2020-06-18 16:49:39	acdw	you can also open an ssl thing with `openssl`
2020-06-18 16:49:42		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 16:50:02	krixano	I don't know how displaying text is so hard in Kristall, but whatevs...
2020-06-18 16:50:55	xq	point is:
2020-06-18 16:50:59	xq	kristall does abstraction
2020-06-18 16:51:03	krixano	Having it as a separate tool would be completely dumb, imo. It's like taking unix philosophy to an idiotic extreme... here, let's make each function within a program it's own program why don't we!
2020-06-18 16:51:06	xq	it does not only process Gemini
2020-06-18 16:51:25	krixano	Yes, I got that, but how do you put stuff on the screen?
2020-06-18 16:51:25	xq	it processes finger, gemini, http, https, gopher
2020-06-18 16:51:38	xq	every one of these protocols output the final document
2020-06-18 16:51:44	krixano	I mean... you are able to put the mime type in the status bar
2020-06-18 16:51:50	xq	that means for example that gopher reads until ".\r\n"
2020-06-18 16:52:13	xq	the mime for gopher is determined by the URL. …/0… for example is text/plain
2020-06-18 16:52:30	xq	the transported body is passed to the UI
2020-06-18 16:52:36	xq	so "message body" + mime
2020-06-18 16:52:49	xq	for gopher that is everything until ".\r\n"
2020-06-18 16:53:05	xq	fr gemini that'S everything after the status line for any "2x" status
2020-06-18 16:53:20	xq	for http that's everything past "\r\n\n"
2020-06-18 16:53:52	xq	the full response from the server is never read
2020-06-18 16:54:06	xq	(into a buffer)
2020-06-18 16:54:09	xq	and will probably never be read in a future update
2020-06-18 16:54:19	xq	to make Kristall be usable for tomasinos awesome streaming idea
2020-06-18 16:54:49	krixano	This sounds more like you don't *want* to do it, instead of not being *able* to do it, lol
2020-06-18 16:55:33	xq	as said:
2020-06-18 16:55:43	xq	i would need to rewrite the whole protocol processing for that
2020-06-18 16:55:55	xq	because gemini header is never in a buffer anywayys
2020-06-18 16:56:00	krixano	Yeah, and I don't really believe that
2020-06-18 16:56:06	xq	then fork and do it ;)
2020-06-18 16:56:11	krixano	not until I see it, but it's fine... I don't care anymore
2020-06-18 16:56:16	xq	and make it clean, so it will work for *all* future protocols
2020-06-18 16:56:21	xq	also
2020-06-18 16:56:32	xq	the time spent arguing would've been sufficient to code the thing you need alredy
2020-06-18 16:56:37	xq	so i don't care anymore ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2020-06-18 16:56:40	krixano	All you're doing is dumping a response into a text buffer. And if you're not putting the response in a buffer, then just put it in the buffer as you stream.
2020-06-18 16:56:52	xq	no, that's not correct ;)
2020-06-18 16:57:00	xq	i do a lot more
2020-06-18 16:57:09	krixano	Like I said, I don't care.
2020-06-18 16:58:13	~tiwesdaeg	I like bananas
2020-06-18 16:58:17	krixano	Also, btw, the amount of time spend here would have allowed me to create a server using a crappy library in a crappy language with crappy GC, so not comparable
2020-06-18 16:58:47	~tiwesdaeg	🍌 = 🍌
2020-06-18 16:59:36	xq	tiwesdaeg, you're plant is dry!
2020-06-18 16:59:51	~tiwesdaeg	I have a lot of orphaned plants!
2020-06-18 17:00:14	xq	sad :(
2020-06-18 17:00:15	xq	why?!
2020-06-18 17:00:31	~tiwesdaeg	so many kristall installations
2020-06-18 17:00:41	~tiwesdaeg	and then I wiped one of the boxes just recently
2020-06-18 17:01:27	xq	ah :D
2020-06-18 17:02:58	krixano	xq, you're problem is doing what I suggested is overcomplicated because you're using overly-oop'd c++, lol
2020-06-18 17:03:02	~tiwesdaeg	time to make another plant!
2020-06-18 17:03:10	krixano	* in doing what....
2020-06-18 17:03:10	xq	krixano: no
2020-06-18 17:03:28	xq	that's not the reason
2020-06-18 17:03:35	krixano	Hmmm.... I'm not so sure
2020-06-18 17:03:39	xq	the reason is that i'm having a necessary abstraction
2020-06-18 17:04:16	xq	the abstraction allows me to process "message body", not "protocol encoded message"
2020-06-18 17:04:20	krixano	Hm... what is this line?
2020-06-18 17:04:22	krixano	>     QByteArray response = socket.readAll();
2020-06-18 17:04:44	~tiwesdaeg	xq: astrobotany isn't working for me
2020-06-18 17:04:50	~tiwesdaeg	I have a key enabled
2020-06-18 17:05:00	xq	huh
2020-06-18 17:05:12	xq	it stores a batch of data received from the server
2020-06-18 17:05:26	xq	that is either intermediatly stored until 1024 byte or the first \n
2020-06-18 17:05:31	xq	then it's discarded
2020-06-18 17:05:34	xq	when parsing a header
2020-06-18 17:05:44	xq	otherwise it's appending that data to a message body
2020-06-18 17:05:46	xq	at least for gemini
2020-06-18 17:06:07	~tiwesdaeg	I'm getting the Invalid Certificate error
2020-06-18 17:06:52	xq	hm, weird
2020-06-18 17:06:55	~tiwesdaeg	created a new tab and tried again
2020-06-18 17:06:58	~tiwesdaeg	still the same
2020-06-18 17:07:12	xq	can you tell me your process
2020-06-18 17:07:23	xq	Kristall isn't able to determine the correct response from the server atm
2020-06-18 17:07:31	~tiwesdaeg	I clicked on my favorite shorcut
2020-06-18 17:07:48	~tiwesdaeg	clicked on on the shield an enabled the key
2020-06-18 17:08:07	~tiwesdaeg	then clicked on the 'Get to Gardening' link
2020-06-18 17:09:06	~tiwesdaeg	if I click on that link without enabling the key, same issue
2020-06-18 17:09:12	~tiwesdaeg	I don't get a popup to select the key
2020-06-18 17:09:31	xq	yeah the popup is borked atm
2020-06-18 17:09:44	xq	will fix itself magically in the future :D
2020-06-18 17:09:56	xq	but when enabling the cert, it should work…
2020-06-18 17:10:07	~tiwesdaeg	I tried a 30 minute certificate, same issue
2020-06-18 17:10:09	~tiwesdaeg	let me restart
2020-06-18 17:10:16	krixano	I haven't updated Kristall since the fix you did for me, which is definitely a good thing if breaking changes are getting pushed up any old time
2020-06-18 17:10:42	~tiwesdaeg	same results
2020-06-18 17:11:01	~tiwesdaeg	I compiled a new version this mornign that only had a couple edits
2020-06-18 17:11:12	xq	krixano: there's a difference between "bleeding edge development release" and "versioned releases"
2020-06-18 17:11:24	xq	can you pull the current master and try again?
2020-06-18 17:11:48	xq	krixano: if you want a stable experience, keep to the versioned releases
2020-06-18 17:13:12	~tiwesdaeg	on it
2020-06-18 17:14:10	~tiwesdaeg	ooooo
2020-06-18 17:14:16	~tiwesdaeg	I forgot, we had that error
2020-06-18 17:14:22	~tiwesdaeg	still there
2020-06-18 17:14:45	xq	hm
2020-06-18 17:15:22	~tiwesdaeg	my current binary was compiled 28 hours ago
2020-06-18 17:17:13	xq	yeah i fixed that this morning :D
2020-06-18 17:19:21	~tiwesdaeg	filehandler.cpp still hates me
2020-06-18 17:20:12	xq	oh yeah, sorry :D
2020-06-18 17:20:16	xq	gonna fix that now
2020-06-18 17:20:28	@tomasino	livin' on the edge
2020-06-18 17:20:52	~tiwesdaeg	you don't put Steven Tyler in my head
2020-06-18 17:21:33	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-18 17:22:43	krixano	I'm just looking at Kristall's code. Wow it's so overcomplicated, lol
2020-06-18 17:22:54	xq	^^
2020-06-18 17:22:57	krixano	(genuinely not trying to be mean, but yeah)
2020-06-18 17:23:05	xq	then go on, make a better client ;)
2020-06-18 17:23:07	xq	i challenge you
2020-06-18 17:23:13	xq	same feature set, less overcomplicated code
2020-06-18 17:23:21	krixano	Ok, actually I will :)
2020-06-18 17:23:26	krixano	Because I was planning on this anyways
2020-06-18 17:23:27	~tiwesdaeg	diversity!
2020-06-18 17:23:27	xq	including all this nice, small stuff
2020-06-18 17:23:36	krixano	Yep, including everything Kristall has
2020-06-18 17:24:03	xq	you're going to have a long road
2020-06-18 17:24:11	~tiwesdaeg	xq: next up, I want kristall to mow my lawn
2020-06-18 17:24:11	xq	in front of you
2020-06-18 17:24:17	xq	coming up, next week
2020-06-18 17:24:24	xq	kristall running on smart lawn mowers!
2020-06-18 17:25:19	krixano	Nah, it won't be that long to get something simple up and running, not if I'm using a decent language and decent libraries that is.
2020-06-18 17:25:46	~tiwesdaeg	krixano: what is a decent language?
2020-06-18 17:25:55	~tiwesdaeg	I know you aren't too fond of python
2020-06-18 17:25:59	krixano	C++ is definitely not a decent language, lol
2020-06-18 17:26:07	krixano	Although, I get why it's still used
2020-06-18 17:26:34	krixano	Because there really aren't *that* many decent options, at least not ones as built-up environment-wise
2020-06-18 17:27:13	xq	wel
2020-06-18 17:27:16	~tiwesdaeg	how about fortran?
2020-06-18 17:27:20	xq	i don't see an alternative atm for C++
2020-06-18 17:27:22	~tiwesdaeg	I once knew fortran
2020-06-18 17:27:30	xq	at least not for Kristalls project goals
2020-06-18 17:27:53	krixano	Odin is a great alternative, it just needs more libraries/tools.
2020-06-18 17:28:03	krixano	Zig I hear is pretty decent also
2020-06-18 17:28:14	krixano	Those are really like the only options, lmao
2020-06-18 17:28:31	xq	yep
2020-06-18 17:28:36	xq	both Odin and Zig have one problem
2020-06-18 17:28:39	xq	that C++ doesn#t
2020-06-18 17:28:52	xq	you don't have a cross-platform UI toolkit
2020-06-18 17:28:58	krixano	Don't need one
2020-06-18 17:29:10	krixano	And it actually does
2020-06-18 17:29:10	xq	so, you don't go for Kristall's features anymore?
2020-06-18 17:29:17	xq	it's the reason why i chose Qt/C++ in the first place
2020-06-18 17:29:22	xq	it has the batteries included
2020-06-18 17:29:23	krixano	Don't need one because OpenGL is cross-platform
2020-06-18 17:29:30	xq	LOL
2020-06-18 17:29:38	xq	i wish you very much fun
2020-06-18 17:29:40	krixano	And there's imgui, which is a *great* library
2020-06-18 17:29:47	xq	^^
2020-06-18 17:29:55	krixano	(Dear Imgui)
2020-06-18 17:30:07	xq	krixano, pull and recompile, should be fixed now
2020-06-18 17:30:13	xq	*tiwesdaeg
2020-06-18 17:30:14	xq	sorry
2020-06-18 17:30:23	krixano	All the other libraries, like QT, GTK, etc. are terrible
2020-06-18 17:30:34	xq	dear imgui isn't any less terrible
2020-06-18 17:30:40	krixano	I disagree
2020-06-18 17:30:48	xq	i've written a huge application with dear imgui
2020-06-18 17:30:51	xq	i know what i'm about
2020-06-18 17:30:57	xq	would never do that again
2020-06-18 17:31:07	krixano	And I disagree
2020-06-18 17:32:03	@tomasino	batteries are def included
2020-06-18 17:32:09	@tomasino	you went  from zero to my fav client overnight
2020-06-18 17:32:32	~tiwesdaeg	cool, whatever the cert bug is, it's gone
2020-06-18 17:33:51	xq	the bug was that you never used any client certificates in the first place :D
2020-06-18 17:34:16	xq	zig has *some* batteries included to deal with Gemini
2020-06-18 17:34:21	xq	mostly thanks to me and alex nask
2020-06-18 17:34:34	krixano	Alex nask?
2020-06-18 17:35:04	xq	another member from the zig community
2020-06-18 17:35:12	xq	together we built zig-network that supports windows and linux atm
2020-06-18 17:35:23	~tiwesdaeg	I'm keeping my sg4zMSeUVJE plant alive
2020-06-18 17:35:25	xq	no BSD or Mac support though
2020-06-18 17:35:29	krixano	And what exactly is zig-network?
2020-06-18 17:35:40	xq	a cross-platform library for networking (tcp, udp)
2020-06-18 17:36:12	krixano	So, sockets?
2020-06-18 17:36:15	xq	yep
2020-06-18 17:36:18	~tiwesdaeg	back to evil yardwork
2020-06-18 17:36:21	krixano	Is that all?
2020-06-18 17:36:26	makeworld	Are you thinking of doing another Kristall release soon?
2020-06-18 17:36:35	xq	krixano: there's std.net that supports linux/tcp only
2020-06-18 17:36:42	~tiwesdaeg	also, tomasino, I can not get that song out of my head now
2020-06-18 17:36:43	xq	also zig-bearssl is the only SSL library out there for zig and it bearly supports TLS
2020-06-18 17:36:56	xq	makeworld: todo-list for 0.3 is still big
2020-06-18 17:37:01	makeworld	Oh yeah?
2020-06-18 17:37:05	krixano	Odin has sockets too, it's just not in the core lib yet. And there's openssl bindings also
2020-06-18 17:37:16	xq	makeworld: https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall#03-release
2020-06-18 17:37:27	makeworld	I just saw that yeah
2020-06-18 17:37:59	xq	working on most of the options stuff atm, that should strip a lot off the list
2020-06-18 17:39:43	@tomasino	Sorry tiwesdaeg
2020-06-18 17:39:53	@tomasino	It's an evil super power
2020-06-18 17:46:52	paper	how does SCGI in  molly work? I listen on a unix socket, right? Do I get the requests plain text requests?
2020-06-18 17:49:12	krixano	What's a good name for a new gemini browser?
2020-06-18 17:49:17	krixano	I'm bad at naming things
2020-06-18 17:50:10	Sario528	'Gembrow' I am also bad at naming things
2020-06-18 17:53:47	xq	"Double Vision", "Space Explorer"
2020-06-18 17:54:20	paper	"Drunk pirate"
2020-06-18 18:01:04	krixano	I started a gopher browser previously that I named "Borr", I forgot about that, lol
2020-06-18 18:10:01	xq	if in doubt, use https://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/name/
2020-06-18 18:12:08	dozens	I want to make client and server called Serena and Venus
2020-06-18 18:12:20	dozens	i know they're not actually twins. but it's too good not to.
2020-06-18 18:13:23	xq	can you explain that?
2020-06-18 18:15:10	@tomasino	Lots of famous twins to pull from
2020-06-18 18:15:16	@tomasino	Romulus and Remus
2020-06-18 18:15:38	xq	"Rome Browser"
2020-06-18 18:31:37	xq	hmm
2020-06-18 18:31:45	xq	if everything works well, i can release 0.3 before sunday :)
2020-06-18 18:32:03	makeworld	Yay
2020-06-18 18:32:12	xq	i restructured the roadmap a bit, removed all "fancy displaying" stuff to 0.4
2020-06-18 18:33:12	xq	so 0.4 will be under the star of "more customizations and colors"
2020-06-18 18:33:51	~tiwesdaeg	emoji-favicons in .4?
2020-06-18 18:34:20	xq	yep
2020-06-18 18:34:26	xq	also favicon.ico as well
2020-06-18 18:34:36	xq	depending on what exists
2020-06-18 18:35:12	~tiwesdaeg	I started playing around with favicon.txt for one server already
2020-06-18 18:36:28	xq	yeah, i'll do that as well for my servers
2020-06-18 18:36:34	xq	want to port ashet.computer to gemini as well :)
2020-06-18 18:37:01	~tiwesdaeg	you should write a gemini server and client for ashet
2020-06-18 18:37:48	xq	lol
2020-06-18 18:37:53	xq	LOL
2020-06-18 18:38:09	xq	not going to implemnet TLS 1.2 in pure assembler :D
2020-06-18 18:46:49	makeworld	Sounds like you're not a *real* geminaut
2020-06-18 18:48:51	xq	why that?
2020-06-18 18:52:51	krixano	What's ashet?
2020-06-18 18:53:15	xq	https://ashet.computer/
2020-06-18 18:54:07	krixano	> The Ashet Home Computer, or short just Ashet is a late 80ies style inspired home computer with a 16 bit cpu.
2020-06-18 18:54:07	krixano	Most components of Ashet are self-developed chips and computer components, like the SPU Mark II CPU, the yet unnamed MMU, video chip and blitter DMA.
2020-06-18 18:54:10	krixano	Interesting
2020-06-18 19:01:33	⚡	xq is sad to pull in a new dependency…
2020-06-18 19:01:39	xq	will make windows build even harder
2020-06-18 19:01:46	xq	but it's probably worth it
2020-06-18 19:02:38	~tiwesdaeg	I mean, you don't want to write all that robot lawnmower stuff by yourself
2020-06-18 19:03:47	krixano	What is all this talk about lawnmowers?
2020-06-18 19:38:50		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 20:09:54	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 20:25:31	▬▬▶	kiwi-n45 has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 20:26:56	acdw	krixano: I like "cricket" for a browser name (b/c gemini cricket!)
2020-06-18 20:27:35	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 20:27:40	krixano	That's a cool name! I'll use that, if it's fine :)
2020-06-18 20:27:50	acdw	awesome :)
2020-06-18 20:28:52		kiwi-n45 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-18 20:30:09	lukee	hi folks
2020-06-18 20:30:25	lukee	thought I would drop by. Its been a busy few days for me
2020-06-18 20:30:28	~tiwesdaeg	yo
2020-06-18 20:30:29	lick	hi hi
2020-06-18 20:30:29	lukee	in the day job
2020-06-18 20:30:45	lukee	whats new?
2020-06-18 20:31:03	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-06-18 20:31:24	lukee	or maybe a better question is what is the subject for disagreement today :)
2020-06-18 20:31:34	~tiwesdaeg	I can't try geminaut currently
2020-06-18 20:31:40	~tiwesdaeg	my windows partition is dead
2020-06-18 20:31:44	~tiwesdaeg	I forgot to water it
2020-06-18 20:31:50	lukee	oh dear
2020-06-18 20:31:57	~tiwesdaeg	programming languages
2020-06-18 20:32:05	~tiwesdaeg	that was the subject of disagreement here
2020-06-18 20:32:25	lukee	surely we can just agree there is one true language and then move on?
2020-06-18 20:32:38	~tiwesdaeg	no one liked my fortran suggestion
2020-06-18 20:33:01	lukee	my favourite language is a mostly forgotten language
2020-06-18 20:33:08	lukee	called Rebol
2020-06-18 20:33:15	~tiwesdaeg	I know it!
2020-06-18 20:33:18	lukee	cool
2020-06-18 20:33:22	~tiwesdaeg	I just don't, you know, know it
2020-06-18 20:33:43	lukee	it has zero syntax, so not much on the surface really
2020-06-18 20:33:50	~tiwesdaeg	I have gone down obscure rabbit holes just to learn about all the different languages out there
2020-06-18 20:34:12	lukee	the GMI to HTML parser in GemiNaut is written in it
2020-06-18 20:34:33	lukee	probably could have used another language, but it is nice to be productive
2020-06-18 20:35:28	acdw	he lukee
2020-06-18 20:35:32	lukee	it has a very nice parse engine which sort of knocks the socks off regex
2020-06-18 20:35:35	lukee	hiya
2020-06-18 20:35:47	acdw	*hi
2020-06-18 20:35:57	acdw	One True Language should be brainfuck
2020-06-18 20:36:13	lukee	your next gemini project is going to be written in that?
2020-06-18 20:36:15	acdw	or trainfuck https://git.sr.ht/~acdw/trainfuck
2020-06-18 20:36:18	acdw	oh god now
2020-06-18 20:36:19	acdw	no
2020-06-18 20:37:05	lukee	Apart from the "fun" of learning, I never understood the point of it
2020-06-18 20:37:37	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 20:37:48	acdw	oh yeah there's no point. I was not serious in the slightest
2020-06-18 20:38:10	acdw	It would be like saying the one true language is sending electrical signals thru wires manually
2020-06-18 20:38:16	lukee	I was impressed to see someone did a haskell client
2020-06-18 20:38:47	lukee	Its probably a 4 line function does the whole thing
2020-06-18 20:38:48	acdw	that is pretty cool! I like haskell
2020-06-18 20:39:00	lukee	that took 3 weeks to conceive
2020-06-18 20:39:04	acdw	I tried to look up Rebol and found this https://www.wearerebol.com/
2020-06-18 20:39:42	lukee	I think it is a place somewhere in US
2020-06-18 20:39:47	lukee	the language is this one
2020-06-18 20:39:48	lukee	http://www.rebol.com/
2020-06-18 20:40:07	lukee	it sort of got abandoned by its creator Carl Sassenrath
2020-06-18 20:40:32	kensanata	Does anybody in here speak Perl? I can't seem access the client cert from the server module I'm using, Net::Server
2020-06-18 20:40:37	lukee	but it did get opensourced
2020-06-18 20:40:38	lukee	https://github.com/rebol/rebol
2020-06-18 20:40:53	acdw	oh this is cool
2020-06-18 20:41:14	lukee	there is a new implementation being written called Red, but it is forever beta
2020-06-18 20:41:53	lukee	https://www.red-lang.org/
2020-06-18 20:41:56	acdw	THAT's where I've heard of it!
2020-06-18 20:42:35	lukee	I dont want to go on about it, but its a very interesting language
2020-06-18 20:42:40	makeworld	Browser ready for release!!
2020-06-18 20:42:42	~tiwesdaeg	is ruby still a thing?
2020-06-18 20:42:46	lukee	It is the inspiration behind JSON
2020-06-18 20:42:54	makeworld	Anyone want to test out a binary before I post about it and stuff?
2020-06-18 20:42:57	lukee	a new browser?
2020-06-18 20:43:04	makeworld	Yes, for the the terminal
2020-06-18 20:43:07	lukee	sure
2020-06-18 20:43:15	makeworld	Like Bombadillo but fancier
2020-06-18 20:43:17	lukee	can it run on a pi?
2020-06-18 20:43:21	makeworld	Okay, what OS and arch?
2020-06-18 20:43:28	makeworld	It should be able to
2020-06-18 20:43:36	lukee	I can run bombadillo on it
2020-06-18 20:43:42	~tiwesdaeg	linux 64 bit
2020-06-18 20:43:46	lukee	what is it written in?
2020-06-18 20:43:57	acdw	makeworld I'll try it when I get home!
2020-06-18 20:44:01	acdw	or maybe at work if I can :)
2020-06-18 20:44:14	makeworld	It's written in Go
2020-06-18 20:44:14	~tiwesdaeg	you're going to steal my passwords with your binary, aren't you?
2020-06-18 20:44:17	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-18 20:44:44	lukee	cool
2020-06-18 20:44:57	lukee	my pi is armv61
2020-06-18 20:45:13	makeworld	Ok, I'll build for that in a sec
2020-06-18 20:45:18	lukee	I did get gemget running on it once I removed the progressbar
2020-06-18 20:45:49	makeworld	Gemget would still work as a binary with the progress bar on it
2020-06-18 20:46:03	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: https://ttm.sh/QTN.bin
2020-06-18 20:46:34	lukee	yeah but I want to hack on it :)
2020-06-18 20:46:44	lukee	when I get around to it
2020-06-18 20:46:48	makeworld	Fair enough ha
2020-06-18 20:46:54	makeworld	K building for you now
2020-06-18 20:46:59	makeworld	I'll upload code in a sec
2020-06-18 20:47:36	~tiwesdaeg	much colors, very good
2020-06-18 20:47:52	makeworld	Ha thanks. Yeah that's probably the best feature
2020-06-18 20:48:02	makeworld	You can navigate links in a different way, with enter and tab
2020-06-18 20:48:11	makeworld	Press ? to pull up the help
2020-06-18 20:48:49	makeworld	lukee: https://ttm.sh/QTH.bin
2020-06-18 20:49:01	makeworld	For RPi
2020-06-18 20:49:06	~tiwesdaeg	how does it handle colors?
2020-06-18 20:49:32	~tiwesdaeg	interesting looking
2020-06-18 20:50:07	makeworld	What do you mean?
2020-06-18 20:50:08	~tiwesdaeg	getting ansi colors, but it's sort of weird
2020-06-18 20:50:20	makeworld	Oh yeah, I experienced that
2020-06-18 20:50:38	makeworld	It's because it uses the official definition of the colours, it tries to be true
2020-06-18 20:50:48	makeworld	That's not my code, that's the TUI library
2020-06-18 20:50:53	makeworld	https://jonasjacek.github.io/colors/
2020-06-18 20:51:01	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QTg.png
2020-06-18 20:51:06	lukee	I got it loaded let me have a look around
2020-06-18 20:51:40	makeworld	Ohh that
2020-06-18 20:51:43	kensanata	Weird. You have to hit RET before you can use TAB and RET to navigate?
2020-06-18 20:51:49	~tiwesdaeg	I also just realized all my links are wrong on tilde.pink
2020-06-18 20:51:59	lukee	I'm getting blue links on a black background - can I change the colours?
2020-06-18 20:52:04	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: That's a bug with the library. When it processes ANSI codes, it doesn't reset the text background, so later text is messed up.
2020-06-18 20:52:22	makeworld	kensanata: Yes to enable the mode
2020-06-18 20:52:36	makeworld	lukee: Not right now
2020-06-18 20:52:39	~tiwesdaeg	it gives me my default background color for the terminal
2020-06-18 20:52:39	makeworld	But I'll add that
2020-06-18 20:52:51	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Yes, that's the bug unfortunately
2020-06-18 20:53:00	makeworld	I filed this: https://gitlab.com/tslocum/cview/-/issues/25
2020-06-18 20:53:56	~tiwesdaeg	links fixed yay
2020-06-18 20:54:02	~tiwesdaeg	I for the tailing /
2020-06-18 20:54:37	~tiwesdaeg	it's a cgi script that displays links to user gemini capsules if they have an index.gmi
2020-06-18 20:55:25	makeworld	Oh nice
2020-06-18 20:55:29	makeworld	Okay code is up!
2020-06-18 20:55:30	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora
2020-06-18 20:55:44	makeworld	Bug reports filing initiate
2020-06-18 20:55:50	~tiwesdaeg	I'm calling it QTN.bin for life
2020-06-18 20:56:15	lukee	I got it loading up my home page
2020-06-18 20:56:16	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/XVDf1Zi
2020-06-18 20:56:37	lukee	Still not sure how I activate one of the links
2020-06-18 20:57:07	lukee	does it have an official name?
2020-06-18 20:57:27	~tiwesdaeg	I'm guessing amfora?
2020-06-18 20:57:47	~tiwesdaeg	those thingies you put stuff in
2020-06-18 20:58:01	lukee	oh sorry yes was using it and missed the link above
2020-06-18 20:58:07	~tiwesdaeg	then when your ship sinks, people can find them many years later
2020-06-18 20:58:16	makeworld	lukee: Hmm, what terminal is that? The color seem wrong
2020-06-18 20:58:20	makeworld	Yes that haha
2020-06-18 20:58:39	lukee	that is PuTTY on windows
2020-06-18 20:58:42	makeworld	It's because the Gemini twins are sometimes represented as a pair of Amphora. But the ph is harder to type then an f haha
2020-06-18 20:59:06	makeworld	Huh
2020-06-18 20:59:08	lukee	unlike the rest of you I dont live natively in linux
2020-06-18 20:59:25	makeworld	I can send a Windows binary if you want
2020-06-18 20:59:31	makeworld	Could you try that actually?
2020-06-18 20:59:35	~tiwesdaeg	lukee: you can have my broken windows
2020-06-18 20:59:46	lukee	I do have a windows client already ;)
2020-06-18 20:59:53	lukee	but yes happy to try it
2020-06-18 20:59:56	lukee	:)
2020-06-18 21:00:18	makeworld	Yeah, not to replace it or anything lol
2020-06-18 21:00:27	lukee	no worries
2020-06-18 21:01:09	lukee	what I don't have in cross-platform, I try to make up in other ways
2020-06-18 21:02:24	makeworld	Lmk if just double clicking it works. I don't know, you might have to open a terminal first
2020-06-18 21:02:48	makeworld	https://gofile.io/d/1D50OS
2020-06-18 21:03:00	acdw	aw yuss gonna use this @ work
2020-06-18 21:03:24	makeworld	Ayy
2020-06-18 21:04:26	lukee	Got to fix those colours :)
2020-06-18 21:04:27	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/9rIYgA4
2020-06-18 21:04:52	makeworld	Oof sorry
2020-06-18 21:05:03	acdw	wut wut https://imgur.com/a/pTFYtAQ
2020-06-18 21:05:33	makeworld	It's a bit softer on my computer lukee, I think maybe Windows doesn't have support for extra colors?
2020-06-18 21:05:45	acdw	did you implement your own pager?
2020-06-18 21:05:52	makeworld	Wdym?
2020-06-18 21:06:00	acdw	for the browser.
2020-06-18 21:06:00	makeworld	Also I see you're using thelounge, nice
2020-06-18 21:06:01	makeworld	Like me
2020-06-18 21:06:09	makeworld	No but what do you mean by pager
2020-06-18 21:06:12	makeworld	Like the tabs?
2020-06-18 21:06:51	lukee	Windows protected your PC. Run anyway?
2020-06-18 21:07:17	acdw	haha yes
2020-06-18 21:07:29	acdw	yes to the lounge and also to run anyway
2020-06-18 21:07:37	acdw	i mena it's your computer
2020-06-18 21:07:40	acdw	use it when you need it
2020-06-18 21:08:13	acdw	makeworld: like the `less` program, the thing that makes it only show some of the page at a time
2020-06-18 21:08:27	acdw	instead of just puking the whole gemini page into the terminal
2020-06-18 21:08:50	lukee	yes it works fine on windows
2020-06-18 21:08:51	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/TOQDX7f
2020-06-18 21:08:59	makeworld	Oh yeah it does that. But I didn't implement that acdq
2020-06-18 21:09:01	makeworld	*acdq
2020-06-18 21:09:08	makeworld	Argh I mean acdw lol
2020-06-18 21:09:11	acdw	hahahahhahahahhahaha
2020-06-18 21:09:21	lukee	however bullets seem to be missing
2020-06-18 21:09:33	acdw	Okay cool. I kep thinking about doing that in bash but I think that'd be too crazy
2020-06-18 21:09:39	lukee	they come out as "missing code point" glyphs
2020-06-18 21:09:48	lukee	you can see in the screenshot
2020-06-18 21:09:57	makeworld	lukee: It uses unicode for bullets
2020-06-18 21:10:05	makeworld	You can disable that in the config though
2020-06-18 21:10:07	lukee	I'm sure it does, but...
2020-06-18 21:10:18	makeworld	%APPDATA%\amfora\config.toml
2020-06-18 21:10:43	lukee	is it a windows terminal thing then?
2020-06-18 21:10:44	makeworld	Change it to `bullets = false`
2020-06-18 21:10:47	makeworld	Yes it is
2020-06-18 21:10:56	makeworld	Default Windows terminal sucks it seems lol
2020-06-18 21:11:05	lukee	does that mean it wont like other unicode code points
2020-06-18 21:11:33	makeworld	Likely?
2020-06-18 21:11:55	makeworld	Go to makeworld.gq/favicon.txt and see
2020-06-18 21:12:10	acdw	oh yeah, windows terminal SUX
2020-06-18 21:12:30	lukee	yeah same problem
2020-06-18 21:12:49	lukee	the colours are more attractive though!
2020-06-18 21:13:05	makeworld	Can anyone recommend a better Windows terminal to put in the README?
2020-06-18 21:13:06	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-18 21:14:02	lukee	my eyes stopped bleeding
2020-06-18 21:14:36	lukee	jokes aside, this is really nice client
2020-06-18 21:14:36	makeworld	What did you do?
2020-06-18 21:14:39	makeworld	Thanks :)
2020-06-18 21:15:16	lukee	I got the hang of the navigation now: space: number
2020-06-18 21:15:36	makeworld	Yes
2020-06-18 21:15:47	lukee	no I mean comparing the windows rendition to the one over PuTTY
2020-06-18 21:15:49	makeworld	Or you can press Enter and Tab and Shift-Tab around
2020-06-18 21:15:55	makeworld	Ohh
2020-06-18 21:16:03	makeworld	Glad it's better
2020-06-18 21:16:20	lukee	shame about the unicode in the terminal - does seem surprising.
2020-06-18 21:16:42	lukee	Windows is much better at that kind of thing these days...
2020-06-18 21:16:43	dozens	is Konpeito in here? i've been trying to access their new mix tape all day, but the request keeps timing out
2020-06-18 21:17:45	dozens	i was able to get the page once early this morning
2020-06-18 21:17:48	dozens	gemini://konpeito.media
2020-06-18 21:18:33	makeworld	Yeah it's down rn
2020-06-18 21:19:03	lukee	already I think this is the most usable terminal client
2020-06-18 21:19:15	lukee	if you dont know vi or emacs
2020-06-18 21:19:22	lukee	like us norms
2020-06-18 21:20:34	lukee	there is another terminal client - name escapes me - I think written in rust
2020-06-18 21:20:48	tadzik	asuka
2020-06-18 21:21:49	lukee	I couldnt get it installed on my barebones pi
2020-06-18 21:23:00	lukee	I tried bollux too - which seemed to work ok
2020-06-18 21:23:07	makeworld	Bombadillo is pretty similar, but mine just adds some fancy stuff like colors and tabs, etc. Thanks!
2020-06-18 21:23:08	acdw	:D
2020-06-18 21:23:25	makeworld	And I'm going to be adding a lot more stuff later, as you can see on the README
2020-06-18 21:23:29	acdw	lukee any tips you can give me to make bollux better let me know
2020-06-18 21:23:38	acdw	sorry to hijack this convo btw but it my bebe
2020-06-18 21:27:12	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 21:27:22	lukee	I really like the text rendering in bollux - with underline and paler links.
2020-06-18 21:28:05	lukee	I'm probably not the best person to advise on the usability of terminal applications. I dont spend enough time in them
2020-06-18 21:29:37	lukee	I think perhaps another observation is that when you are choosing link to traverse to, it brings you out of seeing the page content, so you are switching context
2020-06-18 21:29:54	lukee	and so you might forget why you wanted to go to which link.
2020-06-18 21:30:15	lukee	so it would be nice to choose a link whilst seeing the underlying page text
2020-06-18 21:30:45	lukee	My overall impression was good though, and I got further using it than other terminal clients
2020-06-18 21:31:14	⚡	lukee thinks its great there is a diversity of clients being made
2020-06-18 21:32:03	acdw	thanks lukee! I thought a lot about style. As far as the link thing goes, I hate it too; but it's really the only way I can do it that I know of while using `less` and `bash`
2020-06-18 21:32:27	lukee	yes its pretty impressive
2020-06-18 21:32:27	acdw	That's the #1 pain point in the user interface rn I think
2020-06-18 21:32:33	acdw	that and no bookmarks
2020-06-18 21:32:36	acdw	but those shouldn't be hard
2020-06-18 21:32:44	⚡	acdw also loves the diversity of clients
2020-06-18 21:32:57	⚡	acdw might write a post about how we should all just write our own
2020-06-18 21:33:00	dozens	bollux and av98 and bombadillo are my faves atm
2020-06-18 21:33:21	acdw	bombadillo is cool, and av98 is way more user-friendly than I thought at first
2020-06-18 21:33:30	lukee	I just about managed to open a page in bombadillo, but I struggled with it
2020-06-18 21:33:30	acdw	I like the kind of command-line feel
2020-06-18 21:33:57	acdw	IMO the <Space> shortcut isn't really good feeling -- I prefer 'o' for Open
2020-06-18 21:34:03	acdw	or 'l' for Link
2020-06-18 21:34:13	acdw	I use <space> for scroll most of the time
2020-06-18 21:35:00	lukee	are there established conventions for terminal UIs for user interaction?
2020-06-18 21:35:25	lukee	I guess there are the keyboard bindings for vi and emacs as one reference point
2020-06-18 21:35:35	xq	yeah
2020-06-18 21:35:38	xq	or the bindings of less
2020-06-18 21:35:40	xq	or links
2020-06-18 21:35:42	xq	or lynx
2020-06-18 21:35:42	xq	:D
2020-06-18 21:36:04	lukee	links is nice
2020-06-18 21:36:12	lukee	with the pop down menus
2020-06-18 21:36:26	lukee	easier to learn perhaps for more infrequent users
2020-06-18 21:36:50	lukee	like me
2020-06-18 21:39:47	lukee	are there any terminal clients with mouse support? or is that just wrong?
2020-06-18 21:40:25	xq	yes, there is
2020-06-18 21:40:33	xq	mouse in terminal is semi-common
2020-06-18 21:41:05	kensanata	it always irritates me, as the regular mouse interaction I expect is usually not available.
2020-06-18 21:42:52	acdw	yeah I think emacs does a lot of mouse
2020-06-18 21:42:54		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-18 21:42:56	acdw	vim has :set mouse=a
2020-06-18 21:43:04	acdw	I scroll with mouse all the time in vim
2020-06-18 21:43:10	acdw	As far as conventsions, I'm not sure
2020-06-18 21:45:33	makeworld	I will support mouse eventually in mine
2020-06-18 21:45:37	makeworld	Optionally though ofc
2020-06-18 21:45:47	makeworld	Uploading binaries now
2020-06-18 21:45:55	makeworld	You'll see them here: https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/releases/tag/v1.0.0
2020-06-18 21:46:05	acdw	nice!
2020-06-18 21:46:13	acdw	I was trying to use mouse and it wasn't working lol
2020-06-18 21:46:17	acdw	I use mose a lot more in windows
2020-06-18 21:46:45	acdw	does anyone have a server with a self-signed certificate? I'm having an issue with s_client on another server that is self-signed and I'd love some other data points
2020-06-18 21:47:07	lukee	amfora just got its first github star
2020-06-18 21:48:06	lukee	mine is
2020-06-18 21:48:14	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com
2020-06-18 21:48:50	rb100	mine is self signed: gemini://rainbow-100.com
2020-06-18 21:49:32		krixano has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-18 21:49:55	xq	random-projects.net is also self-signed
2020-06-18 21:50:09	▬▬▶	krixano has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 21:51:39	acdw	thanks yall!
2020-06-18 21:51:46	⚡	xq just used � in his code for the first time
2020-06-18 21:53:55	lukee	@rb100 - great to see another windows client
2020-06-18 21:54:18	lukee	I managed to get this working just now - straightforward
2020-06-18 21:54:57	lukee	but I wasnt expecting... Fortran!
2020-06-18 21:55:04	rb100	lukee: it was fun to write.  sped up layout today, need to make another build.
2020-06-18 21:55:22	lukee	can you get wheelmouse scroll to work?
2020-06-18 21:56:14	rb100	on mine?  no, probably not anytime soon.  it's constrained by the graphics toolkit it uses
2020-06-18 21:56:40	acdw	think you all could also tell me how you req'd your keys? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to spam this channel
2020-06-18 21:56:46	lukee	oh ok. I guess the wheelmouse didnt exist when they invented Fortran!
2020-06-18 21:56:47	acdw	This issue I'm seeing is sooo weird
2020-06-18 21:57:16	rb100	it's written in Fortran 2003/2008, not exactly what you're thinking, i suspect
2020-06-18 21:58:04	lukee	honestly I have no idea what to expect. I only heard of someone who was building meteorological models in Fortran
2020-06-18 21:59:30	rb100	it makes heavy use of abstract derived types in Fortran such that i could implement win32 and dumb terminal renderers and most of the code doesn't care
2020-06-18 22:00:51	lukee	What attracted you to write it in Fortran?
2020-06-18 22:01:17	rb100	i write an IDE for Fortran for a living
2020-06-18 22:01:25	lukee	that makes sens
2020-06-18 22:01:30	lukee	*sense
2020-06-18 22:01:33	rb100	good dogfooding
2020-06-18 22:01:49	lukee	yeah we all need to eat up our dogfood. It is healthy for us
2020-06-18 22:02:52	makeworld	Wheelmouse scroll works on mine despite not enabling the mouse
2020-06-18 22:03:02	makeworld	But that might be my terminal being smart
2020-06-18 22:03:11	makeworld	Sending arrow keys on scroll or something
2020-06-18 22:03:38	xq	ouhauaha
2020-06-18 22:03:43	xq	i found the perfect test file
2020-06-18 22:03:44	xq	https://www.w3.org/2001/06/utf-8-test/UTF-8-demo.html
2020-06-18 22:03:50	lukee	Actually the arrow keys dont work for me on windows - maybe it is a platform thing
2020-06-18 22:05:25	lukee	@xq: that is quite succinct and evil at the same time
2020-06-18 22:05:40	xq	yep
2020-06-18 22:05:55	lukee	still missing emojis - gotta have emojis
2020-06-18 22:07:44	xq	oh funky
2020-06-18 22:07:49	xq	i "killed" gemserv :D
2020-06-18 22:08:00	xq	is there a gemini server that is small and can configure mime types?
2020-06-18 22:08:04	acdw	oh and you have to be careful with emojis esp with st terminal -- some of them can crash the terminal
2020-06-18 22:08:37		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 22:16:27	@tomasino	molly brown considered small?
2020-06-18 22:17:16	xq	can i configure the mime type per file?
2020-06-18 22:17:24	xq	guessing doesn't work
2020-06-18 22:17:29	xq	otherwise i'll just hack something up
2020-06-18 22:20:10	xq	ha
2020-06-18 22:20:15	xq	got it working *rofl*
2020-06-18 22:21:21	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-18 22:21:24	@tomasino	.molly files
2020-06-18 22:21:27	@tomasino	it's not documented yet
2020-06-18 22:21:35	@tomasino	they're structured like .htaccess ones, apparently
2020-06-18 22:22:29	xq	ah
2020-06-18 22:22:58	xq	cat "$1" | ncat --ssl --ssl-cert ../cert.pem --ssl-key ../key.pem --listen 1965
2020-06-18 22:23:01	xq	i'm doing this bastard atm :D
2020-06-18 22:29:14	xq	okay, i'm really happy now
2020-06-18 22:29:40	@tomasino	yay
2020-06-18 22:30:13	acdw	xq: is that a server !?
2020-06-18 22:30:14	@tomasino	xq, is there a setting to have the document outline expand automatically?
2020-06-18 22:30:20	xq	acdw: correct!
2020-06-18 22:30:27	acdw	:O
2020-06-18 22:30:29	xq	tomasino: not yet
2020-06-18 22:30:40	acdw	I did not need to see that, I'm going to want to code a bash gemini server next
2020-06-18 22:30:45	xq	haha, have fun :D
2020-06-18 22:30:54	@tomasino	bollux needs a partner
2020-06-18 22:30:58	xq	but: that "server" will respond with static text
2020-06-18 22:31:06	acdw	oh tht's fine lol
2020-06-18 22:31:07	xq	tomasino: will get an update for the next roud! :)
2020-06-18 22:31:15	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-18 22:31:17	acdw	hmm..... bastor
2020-06-18 22:31:25	xq	acdw: no, without having a change to read input atm :D
2020-06-18 22:31:27	acdw	shaster?
2020-06-18 22:31:37	xq	but let me compile a small video of the newest kristall feature
2020-06-18 22:31:41	xq	it's a sneaky one
2020-06-18 22:31:44	xq	probably no one will ever notice
2020-06-18 22:32:01	acdw	oh you mean it'll only ever serve one file
2020-06-18 22:32:15	acdw	ah hahah yes
2020-06-18 22:32:18	acdw	I get it now
2020-06-18 22:32:32	acdw	motherfuckinggeminicapsule.com
2020-06-18 22:32:56	▬▬▶	webchatter8 has joined #gemini
2020-06-18 22:33:12		webchatter8 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 22:34:25		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 22:34:30	xq	acdw: lol :D
2020-06-18 22:34:41	xq	https://mq32.de/public/kristall-07.mp4
2020-06-18 22:34:45	xq	enjoy this piece of demo video
2020-06-18 22:36:15	acdw	ooh
2020-06-18 22:36:20	acdw	automatic charset detectino?
2020-06-18 22:36:36	acdw	or an in-client localhost gemini server with the UTF test character set?
2020-06-18 22:36:37	acdw	:P
2020-06-18 22:36:46	xq	charset conversion
2020-06-18 22:36:57	xq	i now serve *any* iconv supported charset
2020-06-18 22:37:01	xq	should be enough
2020-06-18 22:37:02	xq	:D
2020-06-18 22:37:11	xq	btw, some of the torture tests serve invalid files D
2020-06-18 22:37:34	@tomasino	xq, how are you returning the header for gemini?
2020-06-18 22:37:40	@tomasino	with your netcat thing
2020-06-18 22:37:43	acdw	oh that's awesome xq, good job
2020-06-18 22:37:50	xq	that's just a bunch of scripts
2020-06-18 22:38:09	xq	yeah, i Kristall now starts to break torture tests
2020-06-18 22:38:39	xq	tomasino: https://gist.github.com/MasterQ32/19b7f15d9361dda1e3a6e611b0c97a77#file-serve-sh
2020-06-18 22:39:40	@tomasino	ahh, it's just in the file
2020-06-18 22:40:05	xq	yep :D
2020-06-18 22:41:46	@tomasino	ncat is neat
2020-06-18 22:41:51	xq	yep
2020-06-18 22:41:51	@tomasino	different switches than nc ?
2020-06-18 22:42:11	@tomasino	trying to duplicate what you did here on a basic file test
2020-06-18 22:42:13	makeworld	xq: Nice, that's nifty
2020-06-18 22:42:31	xq	ncat is different afaik
2020-06-18 22:42:54	acdw	> nc and netcat are two names for the same program (typically, one will be a symlink to the other). Though—for plenty of confusion—there are two different implementations of Netcat ("traditional" and "OpenBSD"), and they take different options and have different features. Ncat is the same idea, but from the Nmap project.
2020-06-18 22:43:05	acdw	https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/368155/what-are-the-differences-between-ncat-nc-and-netcat
2020-06-18 22:43:30	@tomasino	ahha
2020-06-18 22:43:31	@tomasino	thanks
2020-06-18 22:43:48	@tomasino	i see a manpage for ncat for ubuntu, but i don't have it and it's not in apt by that name
2020-06-18 22:43:57	acdw	also in networking fun times, did you know that gawk can do networking!?!?!?
2020-06-18 22:44:16	@tomasino	i guessi  have to install nmap maybe and it comes with that?
2020-06-18 22:44:24	@tomasino	yeah, i did know about gawk networking
2020-06-18 22:44:27	@tomasino	it's pretty awesome
2020-06-18 22:45:31	acdw	part of me is like YUS the other part is like ... bu bu muh Unix
2020-06-18 22:45:40	acdw	do one thing and do it well
2020-06-18 22:45:48	@tomasino	yeah, it was in nmap
2020-06-18 22:46:03	acdw	tho it *is* gnu so
2020-06-18 22:46:46	@tomasino	well, bollux can see my gemini file
2020-06-18 22:47:03	@tomasino	but av98 and kristall are like, what are you daft?
2020-06-18 22:47:13	xq	huh, what file do you mean?
2020-06-18 22:47:19	@tomasino	i just tried to use my letsencrypt keys and serve a test file on gopher.black
2020-06-18 22:47:19	acdw	awww yeah
2020-06-18 22:47:48	@tomasino	oh, it's probably the line endings on the header
2020-06-18 22:47:53	@tomasino	lemme try that
2020-06-18 22:48:23	makeworld	I've looked in to the ncat thing before
2020-06-18 22:48:27	makeworld	There are many versions btw
2020-06-18 22:48:34	makeworld	BSD, GNU, nmap, etc
2020-06-18 22:48:41	makeworld	It's tricky sometimes
2020-06-18 22:48:45	@tomasino	oh, no... i see... once i connect it stops listening
2020-06-18 22:48:59	makeworld	Oh also I have binaries for all kinds of arches and OSes for amfora now!
2020-06-18 22:49:11	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/releases/tag/v1.0.0
2020-06-18 22:49:20	makeworld	I will be making a post on the mailing list
2020-06-18 22:50:01	@tomasino	nice
2020-06-18 22:50:02	xq	tomasino: Kristall should tell you pretty much what the error was on a protocol violation
2020-06-18 22:50:30	@tomasino	yeah, i didn't realize that upon connection it would stop listening, so bollux got it and then it wasn't running anymore for the others
2020-06-18 22:50:39	acdw	oh
2020-06-18 22:50:41	@tomasino	when i restarted it and tested Kristall it was a cert error
2020-06-18 22:50:52	@tomasino	The host name did not match any of the valid hosts for this certificate
2020-06-18 22:50:59	@tomasino	which makes sense
2020-06-18 22:51:10	@tomasino	but i can get around it!
2020-06-18 22:51:24	acdw	here I was thinking I was winning the gemini browser wars
2020-06-18 22:51:54	xq	tomasino: yeah, i will add some "ignore" button some day :D
2020-06-18 22:53:31	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QTM.png
2020-06-18 22:53:59	@tomasino	not sure why ncat ends after a single request. I guess i need to put it in a loop
2020-06-18 22:54:13	xq	that's how ncat works :D
2020-06-18 22:54:17	xq	itÄs single-transaction
2020-06-18 22:54:26	@tomasino	ahhha
2020-06-18 22:54:54	xq	also: nice screenshot :D
2020-06-18 22:55:40	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-18 22:55:46	@tomasino	time to make this sliiiighly more robust
2020-06-18 22:57:41		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-18 23:02:29	xq	ha, perfect
2020-06-18 23:02:42	xq	fixed the unicode thingy in enhanced text rendering (*highlights*)
2020-06-18 23:03:26	xq	and now i should go to sleep
2020-06-18 23:03:27	xq	gn8!
2020-06-18 23:03:37	makeworld	See ya!
2020-06-18 23:05:08	xq	0.3 is coming closer!
2020-06-18 23:07:59	@tomasino	gemini://tomasino.org
2020-06-18 23:08:07	@tomasino	renders fine in kristall
2020-06-18 23:08:16	@tomasino	av98 opens it as a text file in another window
2020-06-18 23:11:51	makeworld	A nice big unwieldy demo GIF
2020-06-18 23:11:52	makeworld	https://raw.githubusercontent.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/master/demo-large.gif
2020-06-18 23:15:03	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QT6.txt
2020-06-18 23:15:30	@tomasino	xq's thingy, made into a nice little ongoing server of a single text/gemini file
2020-06-18 23:23:35	@tomasino	better yet, just go to gemini://tomasino.org
2020-06-18 23:34:21	@tomasino	amfora is pretty!
2020-06-18 23:44:51	makeworld	Thanks!
2020-06-18 23:45:03	makeworld	The colors make a bigger difference than I thought they would
2020-06-19 00:31:34	makeworld	https://pastebin.com/raw/NKnSYhqt
2020-06-19 00:31:45	makeworld	Example gemini file I made for my gf to help her learn
2020-06-19 00:36:45	Sario528	Is the list of clients on gemini.circumlunar.space still being updated?
2020-06-19 00:38:25	makeworld	yes
2020-06-19 00:38:37	makeworld	On Gemini anyway
2020-06-19 01:51:39	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 04:37:52		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 05:33:46		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 06:11:22	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 06:27:29		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-19 06:28:15	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 06:28:16	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-19 06:43:34		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 06:43:47	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 07:09:15	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 07:19:23	xq	goooood morning
2020-06-19 07:46:43	@julienxx	hello
2020-06-19 08:23:13	@tomasino	Yo
2020-06-19 08:23:28	@tomasino	tomasino.org is working again for a bit
2020-06-19 08:24:04	xq	tomasino, neat!
2020-06-19 08:24:24	@tomasino	I need to generate a new cert so I can run it without sudo. Otherwise it will eventually ask me for a password again and stop working until I log in and enter it
2020-06-19 08:25:08	xq	:D
2020-06-19 08:25:33	xq	openssl req -new -x509 -config cert-config.cfg -nodes -newkey ec:<(openssl ecparam -name secp384r1) -keyout key.pem -out cert.pem -days 1
2020-06-19 08:25:48	xq	you can also omit -config cert-config.cfg
2020-06-19 08:26:46	xq	then you have to set the stuff by hand
2020-06-19 08:27:52	@tomasino	Thanks! 
2020-06-19 08:28:10	@tomasino	In an hour or two when I get out of bed, then. ;)
2020-06-19 08:28:24	xq	:D
2020-06-19 08:28:29	xq	slacker! *laughing*
2020-06-19 08:28:35	xq	what TZ are you in?
2020-06-19 08:28:40	xq	i remember something about iceland?
2020-06-19 08:28:44	@tomasino	Yep
2020-06-19 08:28:49	@tomasino	UTC
2020-06-19 08:28:54	@tomasino	It's 8:30
2020-06-19 08:29:00	xq	well, okay : D
2020-06-19 08:29:04	⚡	xq retreats the slacker
2020-06-19 08:29:22	@tomasino	Back in a bit
2020-06-19 08:29:25	@tomasino	Zzzz
2020-06-19 08:35:42	paper	is there a way to change the self-signed cert without breaking TOFU? I don't see a way, is there?
2020-06-19 08:37:55	xq	nope, there is afaik none
2020-06-19 08:37:55	xq	make certificates long-lived for tofu
2020-06-19 08:38:38	xq	tomasino: new feature in kristall: you can now ignore invalid certificates and fetch the contents anyways
2020-06-19 08:39:07	paper	I have a long-lived certificate, but someone reported I have v1 cert instead of v3... Plus, I would like a smaller cert than 2048 rsa
2020-06-19 08:40:25	xq	yeah, same here
2020-06-19 09:18:21		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 10:13:00	`epochbot	just because certs expire, does that mean the key should have to expire too?
2020-06-19 10:13:32	`epochbot	people could keep a private key, and just re-self-sign every week if they wanted
2020-06-19 10:15:32	xq	hey `epochbot
2020-06-19 10:15:45	xq	yeah that's my proposal: create new certs, but keep the pubkey
2020-06-19 10:15:52	xq	→ SSH .authorized_keys will work
2020-06-19 10:16:03	`epochbot	oh, alright.
2020-06-19 10:16:20	`epochbot	I hadn't read enough backlog I guess.
2020-06-19 10:17:55	xq	nah, i proposed it roughly a week ago D:
2020-06-19 10:19:51		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 10:20:20	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 10:25:22	`epochbot	o.0
2020-06-19 10:26:06	`epochbot	well, I'm for it. don't auth against certs, auth against the keys in the certs ftw.
2020-06-19 10:27:10		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-19 10:28:43	xq	hey, me too
2020-06-19 10:30:38	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 10:33:24		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 10:33:35	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 10:39:31	`epochbot	psssst.
2020-06-19 10:39:34	`epochbot	gemi.ni
2020-06-19 10:39:44	⚡	`epochbot checks who owns "ni" TLD
2020-06-19 10:39:47	`epochbot	nigeria maybe?
2020-06-19 10:39:56	`epochbot	nicaragua
2020-06-19 10:40:19	`epochbot	ge.mini
2020-06-19 10:40:23	⚡	`epochbot checks mini TLD
2020-06-19 10:41:50	`epochbot	won't be able to get gemi.ni
2020-06-19 10:42:08	`epochbot	it is like .uk, .gov.ni, .co.ni, .org.ni
2020-06-19 10:42:21	`epochbot	namecheap didn't have ".mini"
2020-06-19 10:43:00	`epochbot	.mini is "not available for public registration" on 101domain.com
2020-06-19 10:43:02	`epochbot	merp. oh well.
2020-06-19 10:44:57	`epochbot	oh, gemi.ni is /only/ 600 USD
2020-06-19 10:45:08	`epochbot	https://www.nicaraguahost.com/domaincheck?name=gemi.ni
2020-06-19 10:50:19	xq	damn
2020-06-19 10:50:31	xq	btw: cyber.space is reserved by IANA :D
2020-06-19 10:53:11	`epochbot	it is saying "listed for sale" when I try to go there
2020-06-19 10:53:41	`epochbot	$460/mo
2020-06-19 10:54:15	`epochbot	cyb.org is... still registered from 1993
2020-06-19 10:57:33		krixano has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-19 10:57:51	▬▬▶	krixano has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 11:16:30	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 11:57:50	@tomasino	there, i think my tomasino.org experiment will be a bit more resilient now
2020-06-19 11:58:17	xq	tomasino: pipe a "date" in there!
2020-06-19 11:58:35	@tomasino	how do you mean?
2020-06-19 12:00:03	@tomasino	i tried the line you'd added above, but when i tried to visit the site all the clients said it was a self-signed cert and untrusted
2020-06-19 12:00:16	@tomasino	so i just cp'd my lets encrypt over to another folder that didn't need sudo for now
2020-06-19 12:00:27	@tomasino	they'll expire in a couple weeks, so i'll figure out something by then
2020-06-19 12:00:31	xq	your printf
2020-06-19 12:00:38	xq	you can also add a "$(date)" in there :)
2020-06-19 12:00:48	xq	and make a small header that shows that it's a live-served file :D
2020-06-19 12:01:30	@tomasino	ahhh
2020-06-19 12:01:31	@tomasino	i see
2020-06-19 12:01:33	@tomasino	yes, i could!
2020-06-19 12:01:35	@tomasino	uno momento
2020-06-19 12:04:33	@tomasino	done
2020-06-19 12:07:21	⚡	tiwesdaeg stumbles sleepily in to the channel
2020-06-19 12:08:00	@tomasino	hiya tiw
2020-06-19 12:08:11	@tomasino	i'm still not sure why av98 kicks it out to an external file viewer
2020-06-19 12:08:16	~tiwesdaeg	another exciting day at work
2020-06-19 12:08:26	@tomasino	castor, bollux, and kristall all display it properly
2020-06-19 12:08:58	~tiwesdaeg	oh yeah, I need to pull and compile kristall on this computer
2020-06-19 12:09:13	~tiwesdaeg	I've only been using it about twice a week
2020-06-19 12:15:00	xq	hello tiwesdaeg
2020-06-19 12:15:38	@tomasino	trimmed my "server" to the minimal stuff so it's easier to read
2020-06-19 12:16:39	@tomasino	oooh
2020-06-19 12:16:43	@tomasino	i think i know what i did wrong
2020-06-19 12:17:34	@tomasino	yep, i forgot the semicolon in the mime
2020-06-19 12:17:44	@tomasino	between text/gemini and the utf-8 part
2020-06-19 12:18:22	xq	is it necessary though?
2020-06-19 12:18:26	⚡	xq checks the RFC
2020-06-19 12:19:08	@tomasino	it was in the spec example, so that's why i tried it
2020-06-19 12:19:11	xq	okay, yes
2020-06-19 12:19:13	xq	it must be there
2020-06-19 12:19:20	xq	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2045#section-5.1
2020-06-19 12:20:46	xq	i should fix my parser then
2020-06-19 12:23:42	~tiwesdaeg	this poor ancient computer is unstable :(
2020-06-19 12:24:31	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 12:24:40	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 12:24:55	@tomasino	poor ancient computer
2020-06-19 12:24:58	@tomasino	we still love you
2020-06-19 12:25:29	~tiwesdaeg	I keep getting dumped to a blank screen with a '_' in the upper left corner
2020-06-19 12:25:50	~tiwesdaeg	debian, just fix me
2020-06-19 13:38:01	~tiwesdaeg	And it's dead :(
2020-06-19 13:39:32	xq	:(
2020-06-19 14:05:56	▬▬▶	wakyct has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 14:07:27		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 14:10:52	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 14:15:10	@tomasino	aww
2020-06-19 14:52:21	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 15:19:48	~tiwesdaeg	I had a puppy linux stick laying about
2020-06-19 15:20:12	~tiwesdaeg	I'm back!
2020-06-19 15:22:13	thewetcrab	Hi tiwesdaeg
2020-06-19 15:22:21	thewetcrab	What happened?
2020-06-19 15:23:01	~tiwesdaeg	no idea really
2020-06-19 15:23:13	acdw	yo
2020-06-19 15:23:20	~tiwesdaeg	I think it may be related to the video card
2020-06-19 15:32:52	xq	wb tiwesdaeg
2020-06-19 15:44:31	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not even going to try and compile kristall on puppy ;P
2020-06-19 15:45:05	~tiwesdaeg	anything exciting happening in the gemiverse today?
2020-06-19 15:45:15	xq	hm, dunno
2020-06-19 15:45:17	xq	ML is silent again
2020-06-19 15:47:43	~tiwesdaeg	Petite Abielle must have found something else to focus on
2020-06-19 15:48:53	xq	:D
2020-06-19 15:49:03	xq	we had such people in the zig community as well
2020-06-19 15:50:21	acdw	I don't think *too* much is going on
2020-06-19 15:50:34	acdw	at least I'm finding it hard to procrastinate on geminispace today
2020-06-19 15:51:37	xq	hehe
2020-06-19 15:52:56	~tiwesdaeg	I need to install a gemini client on this VPS
2020-06-19 15:55:19	acdw	Oooh you got a vps?!
2020-06-19 15:56:28	makeworld	Converting charsets in Go is being annoying and not working for some reason
2020-06-19 15:56:40	xq	oh, not nice
2020-06-19 15:56:43	makeworld	I wish I could just use iconv but I really don't want to add a C dep
2020-06-19 15:56:55	acdw	just port iconv to go
2020-06-19 15:56:57	acdw	easy peasy
2020-06-19 16:00:32	makeworld	Haha sure
2020-06-19 16:00:37	⚡	makeworld afk
2020-06-19 16:00:48	~tiwesdaeg	acdw: I've got a few VPS's ;P
2020-06-19 16:01:36	~tiwesdaeg	I got this one to mainly host my irc instance
2020-06-19 16:02:08	~tiwesdaeg	it's also doing a little side gig as a gemini server
2020-06-19 16:02:35	thewetcrab	Hi sorry to interupt, can anyone who runs gophernicus let me know what I write in the gophernicus.env to 'link' / 'activate' my server IP. - Thank yu.
2020-06-19 16:03:27	acdw	nice tiwesdaeg! I'm thinking of switching my website over from nearlyfreespeech.net to a VPS
2020-06-19 16:03:32	thewetcrab	Hosting IRC on VPS sounds interesting tiwesdaeg. What IRC server do you use on your VPS?
2020-06-19 16:04:00	~tiwesdaeg	I'm just running a weechat relay
2020-06-19 16:04:24	~tiwesdaeg	acdw: there are plenty of very inexpensive VPS options out there
2020-06-19 16:04:49	acdw	I currently have breadpunk.club on digitalocean, so I'd probs stick w/ them
2020-06-19 16:04:56	acdw	though there are cheaper ones ...hmmmm
2020-06-19 16:05:05	thewetcrab	I really want my own IRC server, but I think that is many years off for me yet!
2020-06-19 16:05:22	acdw	I just want to be able to spin up more stuff w/o dealing w/ nfsn's weird rules
2020-06-19 16:05:29	~tiwesdaeg	basicallyy, weechat is running in byobu, so I can ssh in and access it or use glowing-bear or the android weechat app to access the relay
2020-06-19 16:06:34	~tiwesdaeg	I used to run an irc server way back in the day on freebsd from my house
2020-06-19 16:06:39	thewetcrab	Can I browse gemini space on Lynx?
2020-06-19 16:06:58	~tiwesdaeg	through a web or gopher proxy
2020-06-19 16:07:07	thewetcrab	I hear in the early days of the internet lots of people ran things from their homes. BSS systems, email severs, all manor of things!
2020-06-19 16:07:09	lick	lol someone make a pr in lynx
2020-06-19 16:07:28	⚡	lick runs a gemini server in his house dont ddos me pls
2020-06-19 16:07:28	thewetcrab	what is a pr lick?
2020-06-19 16:07:34	lick	pull request
2020-06-19 16:07:50	⚡	thewetcrab wants to run gopher from home
2020-06-19 16:08:09	thewetcrab	ah right a pr for lynx to be able to browse gemini?
2020-06-19 16:08:23	⚡	lick runs gemini and gopher in his home but they have totally different things hosted on them lol
2020-06-19 16:08:27	lick	thewetcrab: yea
2020-06-19 16:08:49	thewetcrab	which gemini server do you run from home lick?
2020-06-19 16:11:06	lick	jetforce
2020-06-19 16:12:00	thewetcrab	Might try set that up later once I have finised wrestling with gophernicus
2020-06-19 16:12:05	lick	oo
2020-06-19 16:12:43	paper	hmm, I did like jetforce, but I don't agree with its license
2020-06-19 16:13:19	lick	yea its a bit silly of a license
2020-06-19 16:14:16	thewetcrab	What's the issue with the license?
2020-06-19 16:14:47	acdw	Just caught the jetforce gemini reference, that's good
2020-06-19 16:15:00	paper	it's not ISA approved, and not truly opensource
2020-06-19 16:15:05	acdw	I need to run a weechat bouncer thing on a VPS too
2020-06-19 16:15:08	acdw	that would be rad
2020-06-19 16:17:46	thewetcrab	What is ISA?
2020-06-19 16:17:59	thewetcrab	lick how long did it take you to set yo your jetforce server
2020-06-19 16:18:55	lick	about an hour i think, because i didint realize i had to specify a host lol
2020-06-19 16:19:03	paper	an organisation which approves if licenses can be considered opensource or not
2020-06-19 16:19:42	thewetcrab	Specifying the host is what I am trying to do now on my gopher server hopefully once that is done and I have forwarded ports it should be running :D
2020-06-19 16:19:49	thewetcrab	Then I will add an gemini server!
2020-06-19 16:20:16	thewetcrab	I'm so glad I don't need to configure a full LAMP stack!
2020-06-19 16:20:30	lick	lol
2020-06-19 16:23:51	thewetcrab	I did it once and it was a hair raising experience!
2020-06-19 16:24:20	paper	nah, it's not that bad
2020-06-19 16:24:48	paper	and you wouldn't need PHP + Mysql for an alternative of gemini
2020-06-19 16:25:09	paper	so you would only need nginx or apache which is really simple to set up
2020-06-19 16:29:39	thewetcrab	It's OK if you have experience doing it multiple times paper. It's OK if you know the steps,
2020-06-19 16:30:14	thewetcrab	but it was the first time I did it and I guess if I managed it, it really can't be that hard, not sure I got it 100% correct. But My wordpress runs off it  so ........
2020-06-19 16:30:30	paper	if you are doing it the first time, you can check some tutorials on digitalocean, they are really helpful
2020-06-19 16:32:50	acdw	^+1 to DO tutorials. I don't run anything complicated on breadpunk (I don't think we have PHP) but the nginx config was easy to understand
2020-06-19 16:33:58	paper	<3 nginx
2020-06-19 16:35:21	⚡	xq wants to write a server based on C++/Qt and Kristall experience similar to nginx
2020-06-19 16:35:50	xq	so virtual servers and static content serving, also CGI probably
2020-06-19 16:35:58	paper	Qt server? what?
2020-06-19 16:37:11	xq	Qt is not a GUI framework ;)
2020-06-19 16:37:13	xq	Qt widgets is
2020-06-19 16:37:21	xq	Qt is a replacement for the C++ standard library
2020-06-19 16:37:38	paper	oh, nice, I didn't know
2020-06-19 16:39:50	acdw	wut
2020-06-19 16:39:55	acdw	I didn't know that about qt either
2020-06-19 16:39:56	~tiwesdaeg	is all of KDE written in QT?
2020-06-19 16:40:26	xq	afaik at least a lot of it
2020-06-19 16:40:48	@tomasino	Qt is pricey
2020-06-19 16:41:10	xq	yeah, it's fat
2020-06-19 16:41:34	xq	okay, back to kristall development </work>
2020-06-19 16:41:44	thewetcrab	lick guess what!
2020-06-19 16:42:06	lick	what?
2020-06-19 16:42:36	thewetcrab	I have my gopher server running!
2020-06-19 16:42:40	thewetcrab	It's working!!!
2020-06-19 16:43:11	thewetcrab	I am going to leave IRC for a while as have been on here all day, but will call back this evening and set up the gemini server.
2020-06-19 16:43:31	~tiwesdaeg	which gemini server?
2020-06-19 16:43:33		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 16:43:48	thewetcrab	jetforce
2020-06-19 16:44:06	@tomasino	ciao
2020-06-19 16:45:55		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 16:47:23	dkibi	kakoune style keybindings would be nice for browsing, i.e. entering the number of the link first then pressing the key for the "navigate to command"
2020-06-19 16:48:08	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino.org is the best gemini capsule, hands down
2020-06-19 16:48:46	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-19 16:48:48	@tomasino	thanks!
2020-06-19 16:48:57	~tiwesdaeg	this opens up stupid simple shell script servers for all
2020-06-19 16:49:17	@tomasino	all real credit where it's due to xq
2020-06-19 16:49:19	~tiwesdaeg	who needs these huge rust behemoths
2020-06-19 16:49:24	@tomasino	indeed
2020-06-19 16:49:34	@tomasino	don't even need bash!
2020-06-19 16:49:56	⚡	tiwesdaeg starts thinking of things to do with this knowledge
2020-06-19 16:50:32	@tomasino	dunno if you can authenticate a client cert with ncat, but you could do one of those micro-service things solderpunk is talking about, potentially
2020-06-19 16:52:19	@tomasino	it would be neat to also do this same thing via the gnu awk port listener, and via the bash one
2020-06-19 16:52:28	@tomasino	3 options for low-hanging solutions
2020-06-19 16:52:53	~tiwesdaeg	awk scares me
2020-06-19 16:53:00	@tomasino	really?
2020-06-19 16:53:10	⚡	xq chants: awk awk awk awk
2020-06-19 16:53:19	@tomasino	have you only ever used it inline, or have you written a proper awk script?
2020-06-19 16:53:24	@tomasino	it's MUCH easier as a proper script
2020-06-19 16:53:33	@tomasino	escaping things and inlining make it look harder than it is
2020-06-19 16:53:41	~tiwesdaeg	I did see a script recently that was less scary, but only ever used it inline
2020-06-19 16:53:57	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles-minimal/blob/master/bin/gophermap2gemini.awk
2020-06-19 16:54:07	@tomasino	look how easy that is to read
2020-06-19 16:54:23	xq	btw, have you ever seen a lisp implemented in sed? :D
2020-06-19 16:54:34	@tomasino	that... no
2020-06-19 16:54:46	xq	https://github.com/shinh/sedlisp
2020-06-19 16:54:50	@tomasino	https://ferd.ca/awk-in-20-minutes.html
2020-06-19 16:55:00	@tomasino	this is my favorite awk resource for people that are intimidated by it
2020-06-19 16:55:18	@tomasino	that's insane, xq
2020-06-19 16:55:21	xq	yes!
2020-06-19 16:55:32	xq	have to look at that awk though
2020-06-19 16:55:40	⚡	xq is neither proficient enough in sed/awk
2020-06-19 16:55:55	acdw	awk is the BEST
2020-06-19 16:56:01	@tomasino	awk really is the best
2020-06-19 16:56:09	@tomasino	it's just really annoying to use inside a bash script
2020-06-19 16:56:25	⚡	tiwesdaeg throws ((()))()()(((((()))))) at xq
2020-06-19 16:56:35	acdw	tomasino: (A) I'm getting a Connection Error on gemini://tomasino.org/ in portal.mozz.us
2020-06-19 16:56:49	@tomasino	lemme see if it died
2020-06-19 16:56:51	@tomasino	it does sometimes
2020-06-19 16:56:58	@tomasino	hrm, nope
2020-06-19 16:57:02	@tomasino	working fine in kristall
2020-06-19 16:57:05	acdw	(B) how would you make the ssl connection in awk do you reckon?
2020-06-19 16:57:12	acdw	oh shoot it up now
2020-06-19 16:57:17	@tomasino	you'd have to kick it over to openssl or something
2020-06-19 16:57:25	@tomasino	maybe the same way bash does it
2020-06-19 16:57:38	@tomasino	jan6 had a solve for that at one point
2020-06-19 16:57:47	acdw	maybe I made the connection at the same time as someone else
2020-06-19 16:58:03	jan6	for what?
2020-06-19 16:58:27	acdw	like do a print "gemini://example.com" | "openssl s_client -connect example.com:1965"
2020-06-19 16:58:28	acdw	?
2020-06-19 16:58:37	jan6	don't forget \r\n
2020-06-19 16:58:42	acdw	jan6: opening an ssl connection using awk junk
2020-06-19 16:58:46	acdw	oh yes dang \r\n
2020-06-19 16:58:48	@tomasino	jan6: gemini://tomasino.org
2020-06-19 16:58:53	xq	acdw: if you serialize all connection handling that should not be a problem
2020-06-19 16:58:55	@tomasino	the bash version of that without ncat
2020-06-19 16:59:07	@tomasino	if we see that we can probably do the gawk version too
2020-06-19 16:59:27	acdw	xq I'm afraid I do not know what you mean by serialize the connection handling
2020-06-19 16:59:46	⚡	acdw is a baby funtime programmer
2020-06-19 16:59:58	jan6	same, acdw
2020-06-19 17:00:03	acdw	:)
2020-06-19 17:00:15	acdw	oh I do love how tomasino.org shows the time!
2020-06-19 17:00:31	jan6	so \r\n made it work?
2020-06-19 17:01:12	acdw	oh idk I am not actually able to write anything -- i'm at work with no terminal or nothin
2020-06-19 17:01:12	@tomasino	\r\n was necessary for mine, yes
2020-06-19 17:01:18	acdw	oh
2020-06-19 17:01:29	jan6	for your what?
2020-06-19 17:01:33	@tomasino	tomasino.org
2020-06-19 17:01:40	@tomasino	you can see the code on it
2020-06-19 17:01:51	xq	it's a quine! :D
2020-06-19 17:01:54	xq	kindaish
2020-06-19 17:01:59	@tomasino	kinda, if i get rid of the header
2020-06-19 17:02:07	acdw	gemiquine
2020-06-19 17:02:10	@tomasino	and if i served it as text
2020-06-19 17:02:15	@tomasino	instead of gemini
2020-06-19 17:02:26	@tomasino	i could point it to the script itself, yeah
2020-06-19 17:02:39	jan6	lol great pag
2020-06-19 17:02:41	jan6	page
2020-06-19 17:02:44	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-19 17:02:46	jan6	read:errno=0
2020-06-19 17:02:52	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 17:03:00	@tomasino	you got an error?
2020-06-19 17:03:01	acdw	i wonder how you could get the page to display from the client
2020-06-19 17:03:45	jan6	write page to file, then read from file?
2020-06-19 17:04:05	@tomasino	xq, when i had cat getting consumed by the printf, i had to double escape my newlines. Moving it to the { } block and just using cat means i don't need to
2020-06-19 17:04:17	acdw	possibly? Or just get the request from the client and make that "$1" in tomasino's script
2020-06-19 17:04:25	jan6	the error might be just my end, I guess
2020-06-19 17:04:31	@tomasino	what client?
2020-06-19 17:04:40	jan6	yes seems to just be me
2020-06-19 17:04:44	@tomasino	i've tested in av98, kristall and castor
2020-06-19 17:04:50	@tomasino	oh, ok
2020-06-19 17:04:54	acdw	we need to make a gemini clock with emojis
2020-06-19 17:04:57	jan6	geminish's gemini_get_openssl.sh
2020-06-19 17:04:58	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 17:04:59	acdw	that would be rad as heack
2020-06-19 17:05:21	jan6	I don't care to bother with all the "clients" and whatnot nonsense
2020-06-19 17:05:21	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: do you really need an input file? Just output it all in printf or echo lines
2020-06-19 17:05:35	@tomasino	it made it easier to write / edit
2020-06-19 17:05:45	@tomasino	but no, you don't need one
2020-06-19 17:05:45	jan6	does it actually echo itself, or is it a copy-paste?
2020-06-19 17:05:50	@tomasino	once you printf that header line you can print whatever
2020-06-19 17:05:58	~tiwesdaeg	geomyidae has had me thinking in echo for a while
2020-06-19 17:05:58	@tomasino	run a script and kick the output there
2020-06-19 17:05:59	jan6	I once did some nice shenanigans
2020-06-19 17:06:20	jan6	so I used a script to read itself to list the options in itself
2020-06-19 17:06:21	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 17:06:22	@tomasino	i could make this mimic my fingerd and expect a username as the path and return the finger results
2020-06-19 17:06:27	@tomasino	or cosmic stories
2020-06-19 17:06:28	@tomasino	or whatever
2020-06-19 17:07:35	jan6	You can use following arguments: ";grep '" )' $0|grep -v "following"|cut -d")" -f1|tr -d '"'|sort|nl -s ": "|tr -s "|"|tr -s '"'|tr -d "'"|tr "|" " "|tr "}" "
2020-06-19 17:07:35	jan6	)
2020-06-19 17:07:55	jan6	or stuff like that
2020-06-19 17:08:02	jan6	which basically parsed the case statement
2020-06-19 17:08:13	acdw	tomasino: look at -k flag to ncat
2020-06-19 17:08:16	jan6	loady_thing.sh ftw
2020-06-19 17:08:43	@tomasino	oh, that would save me lots!
2020-06-19 17:08:59	@tomasino	it wouldn't regen the file every request, which is probably good
2020-06-19 17:09:03	@tomasino	lemme try it real quick
2020-06-19 17:09:08	jan6	not the exact thing
2020-06-19 17:09:11	acdw	oh wait, it never closes the connection
2020-06-19 17:09:14	acdw	which isn't in spec
2020-06-19 17:09:15	jan6	I parse and replace stuff in the file
2020-06-19 17:09:35	jan6	so a line like this
2020-06-19 17:09:36	jan6	"yinyan" )     speed=0.1; echo "$1";a="⚊⚋";;
2020-06-19 17:09:39	jan6	would become this
2020-06-19 17:09:47	jan6	    41: yinyan
2020-06-19 17:10:26	jan6	but you can probably use $0 to get the file itself, still
2020-06-19 17:10:40	acdw	hmmm maybe -e
2020-06-19 17:10:49	acdw	for getting the requested file
2020-06-19 17:11:06	@tomasino	refresh gemini://tomasino.org
2020-06-19 17:11:25	@tomasino	works in kristall
2020-06-19 17:11:36	jan6	hmm, seems to hang
2020-06-19 17:11:36	@tomasino	ahh, but not av98
2020-06-19 17:11:40	@tomasino	okay, going back to the old version
2020-06-19 17:11:50	jan6	wait, are you sure it worked
2020-06-19 17:11:57	acdw	yeah I got an empty response on portal.mozz.us
2020-06-19 17:12:05	jan6	as in, are you sure it worked more than once
2020-06-19 17:12:12	@tomasino	back
2020-06-19 17:12:20	jan6	^ question
2020-06-19 17:12:33	@tomasino	it worked in kristall somehow, but not in av98
2020-06-19 17:12:43	@tomasino	the bash loop with a terminating ncat works better
2020-06-19 17:12:47	jan6	did it work MORE THAN ONCE
2020-06-19 17:12:50	@tomasino	yes
2020-06-19 17:12:55	jan6	ah, ok
2020-06-19 17:12:58	jan6	assuming it didn't cache
2020-06-19 17:13:06	@tomasino	i don't think kristall caches
2020-06-19 17:14:23	@tomasino	neat
2020-06-19 17:14:36	xq	nah, kristall doesn't cache
2020-06-19 17:14:53	xq	*maybe* one day i'll implement that for navigating back to not re-call that site
2020-06-19 17:15:04	@tomasino	or just remembering scroll position on back
2020-06-19 17:15:30	@tomasino	in long-form, when there's a link out part way down and i check it out then click back, i have to find my place again
2020-06-19 17:15:50	acdw	yeah scroll remembering is like the holy grail
2020-06-19 17:16:01	xq	yeah, it's a nice feature
2020-06-19 17:16:06	xq	i'll put it into the todo list
2020-06-19 17:17:08	@tomasino	the holy grail would be to cache all content visited in any given session, then let me fuzzy-find across all of it to pull back up a relevant resource, fzf style
2020-06-19 17:17:32	@tomasino	who needs ctrl-f when you can FZF!
2020-06-19 17:17:34	@tomasino	muahahahahahah
2020-06-19 17:18:22	xq	haha :D
2020-06-19 17:18:34	acdw	why a session when you could do it all for all of time
2020-06-19 17:18:46	xq	but you'll be happy about new features coming in 0.4!
2020-06-19 17:18:47	acdw	just save everything in ~/.gemini time-stampped
2020-06-19 17:18:53	xq	smarter search bar for example :)
2020-06-19 17:19:15	@tomasino	i guess if you just have logs, yeah
2020-06-19 17:19:22	@tomasino	but $XDG_CACHE/gemini/....
2020-06-19 17:19:28	@tomasino	don't muddy up the home folder
2020-06-19 17:19:45	@tomasino	or $XDG_CACHE/kristall/... rather
2020-06-19 17:20:32	@tomasino	i was thinking logs would be bad, but this is your local browsing history. some people like that
2020-06-19 17:20:38	acdw	 /home/gemini - make a new userdir
2020-06-19 17:20:43	acdw	or even better, /gemini
2020-06-19 17:20:45	@tomasino	have we talked about cache policy at all in the ML?
2020-06-19 17:20:54	acdw	no I don't think so
2020-06-19 17:20:55	xq	tomasino: optional local browsing history is planned
2020-06-19 17:21:08	@tomasino	hmmm, interesting
2020-06-19 17:21:16	xq	at least for Kristall :D
2020-06-19 17:21:21	@tomasino	nice
2020-06-19 17:21:28	acdw	I know that the favicon.txt thing is an hour? I think
2020-06-19 17:21:35	xq	and: as always, in Kristall-style. fully configurably!
2020-06-19 17:21:39	@tomasino	yeah, but favicon isn't spec... just a fun side thing
2020-06-19 17:21:40	acdw	nice xq!
2020-06-19 17:21:49	@tomasino	the spec doesn't address caching at all to my knowledge
2020-06-19 17:21:51	xq	yeah, favicon is still a nice idea
2020-06-19 17:21:53	@tomasino	even to say no
2020-06-19 17:21:57	acdw	yeah,but I think an hour is a good amount of time. I was planning on caching for the session length
2020-06-19 17:22:05	xq	ah
2020-06-19 17:22:21	acdw	b/c who knows what might change
2020-06-19 17:22:38	@tomasino	if a resource is trying to say, build a clock, that would be bad
2020-06-19 17:22:58	@tomasino	but we have no way to control it
2020-06-19 17:23:02	acdw	yes --- I'm not sure how to mitigate that except for some kind of heuristic thing
2020-06-19 17:23:12	acdw	like, if it's in cgi-bin/ or ends with .cgi
2020-06-19 17:23:14	@tomasino	well, there's mime, but that'll open a can of worms
2020-06-19 17:23:29	acdw	how do web browsers figure out what to cache and what not to?
2020-06-19 17:23:36	@tomasino	server sends headers
2020-06-19 17:23:40	xq	make caching short-termed (10 seconds)
2020-06-19 17:23:40	xq	headers
2020-06-19 17:24:04	@tomasino	short termed caching is nearly to the point of saying "don't cache at all"
2020-06-19 17:24:14	@tomasino	which maybe fine
2020-06-19 17:24:25	@tomasino	we've accepted some overhead with TLS on every transaction already
2020-06-19 17:24:39	@tomasino	and our payloads are very tiny anyway
2020-06-19 17:24:50	@tomasino	mostly
2020-06-19 17:25:57	@tomasino	anywho, i need to share tomasino.org on the ML
2020-06-19 17:26:05	@tomasino	maybe i'll mention caching in an email there too
2020-06-19 17:26:23	xq	yeah, do that!
2020-06-19 17:26:27	xq	share more funky content!
2020-06-19 17:26:36	⚡	xq spends way too much time on Kristall, not on content
2020-06-19 17:26:55	acdw	oh yes -- the Header problem. Just add cache-time to the mimetype!
2020-06-19 17:27:02	xq	:D
2020-06-19 17:27:10	xq	easy problems require easy solutions!
2020-06-19 17:27:20	acdw	text/gemini; charset=utf-8; lang=en_US; cache-for=8s;
2020-06-19 17:27:43	acdw	yeah no prob ;)
2020-06-19 17:27:53	xq	well, "valid-until" would probably be acceptable ;)
2020-06-19 17:28:01	acdw	what was the other thing on the ML we were talking about putting in there?
2020-06-19 17:28:07	xq	but it's describing content, not content class
2020-06-19 17:28:58	@tomasino	slippery slopes! solderpunk loves those
2020-06-19 17:29:04	@tomasino	conference call time
2020-06-19 17:29:05	@tomasino	back later
2020-06-19 17:30:02	acdw	text/gemini; charset=utf-8; lang=en_US; valid-until=2020-06-19T19:00:21Z; content-length=58K; slippery-slope=true;
2020-06-19 17:30:09	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-19 17:30:13	acdw	:D
2020-06-19 17:30:20	@tomasino	just post that with nothing else as an explanation to the ML
2020-06-19 17:30:27	acdw	haahahahha
2020-06-19 17:30:38	acdw	Subject: Header lines
2020-06-19 17:30:45	acdw	or MimeType Extensions
2020-06-19 17:31:15	xq	topic: #gemini
2020-06-19 17:31:21	xq	content: text/gemini; charset=utf-8; lang=en_US; valid-until=2020-06-19T19:00:21Z; content-length=58K; slippery-slope=true;
2020-06-19 17:32:53	acdw	hahah
2020-06-19 17:35:08	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-19 17:35:24	makeworld	Amfora's cache is just for the session
2020-06-19 17:35:31	makeworld	But you can clear it just by reloading
2020-06-19 17:35:50	makeworld	And it doesn't cache URLs with query strings
2020-06-19 17:36:25	makeworld	You can limit the number of pages or the cache size, but I didn't think about time
2020-06-19 17:39:14	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 17:39:24	⚡	jan6 should get back to doing stuff with gemini sometime
2020-06-19 17:39:47	jan6	kinda thought about making a client in haxe, maybe server later down the line
2020-06-19 17:41:53	xq	guys
2020-06-19 17:41:59	xq	todo list for 0.3 down to a single major point
2020-06-19 17:42:45	acdw	:D nice xq!
2020-06-19 17:43:03	acdw	of course bollux doesn't even *have* a todo list, so I'm def winning there ;)
2020-06-19 17:45:48		wakyct has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 17:51:06	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 17:51:17	jan6	todo: have a todo list
2020-06-19 17:52:03	wgreenhouse	acdw: that means you're all caught up :P
2020-06-19 17:54:41	companion_cube	ahah funny site tomasino
2020-06-19 17:54:48	companion_cube	it's in markdown, heh?
2020-06-19 17:55:13	xq	ohai companion_cube
2020-06-19 17:55:34	companion_cube	o/
2020-06-19 17:55:41	companion_cube	I didn't know ncat
2020-06-19 18:00:55	acdw	wgreenhouse: true fact!
2020-06-19 18:06:49		Ernoz has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-19 18:07:00	lvgx	tomasino: you forgot to actually use the $port variable in your tiny sh server
2020-06-19 18:08:17	xq	ssh server? no! sh server!
2020-06-19 18:15:46	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 18:16:42	lukee	evening all
2020-06-19 18:17:24	lukee	After a request on the mailing list I've been refactoring my theme engine for GemiNaut
2020-06-19 18:18:13	lukee	defdefred asked if new themes could be created by the user
2020-06-19 18:18:29	lukee	and that it would be nice to have a dark but variable font theme
2020-06-19 18:18:52	lukee	I looked around at some dark code editor themes for some inspiration
2020-06-19 18:18:57	lukee	and present...
2020-06-19 18:19:00	lukee	Dark theme
2020-06-19 18:19:01	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/rJmmw0L
2020-06-19 18:20:13	lukee	Even better is users can just write their own and drop them in the folder, and they will appear as an option on the menu
2020-06-19 18:20:51	xq	dark theme looks good :)
2020-06-19 18:20:59	xq	lukee: good idea actually…
2020-06-19 18:21:10	xq	i should start using a kristall config folder instead of a huge file blob :D
2020-06-19 18:21:35	lukee	thanks. I'm even feeling drawn to the dark side when using it
2020-06-19 18:21:41	lukee	even though normally I prefer a light screen
2020-06-19 18:21:59	⚡	lukee whispers "come to the dark side, luke"
2020-06-19 18:22:15	⚡	jan6 brings everyone to the dark side
2020-06-19 18:23:43	⚡	xq has cookies
2020-06-19 18:24:00	lukee	not web cookies I hope
2020-06-19 18:24:02	lukee	:)
2020-06-19 18:24:06	xq	nah
2020-06-19 18:24:10	xq	cookies with macadamia
2020-06-19 18:24:13	xq	*noms*
2020-06-19 18:24:19	lukee	nice - did you make them?
2020-06-19 18:24:36	xq	nah, subway D:
2020-06-19 18:26:06	lukee	at least you made your own coffee right?
2020-06-19 18:26:28	xq	i don't drink coffee
2020-06-19 18:26:58	xq	but i'm kinda the guy that eats 50% outdoors/ready-made because my shop closes at 20:00, and i come home at 20:30
2020-06-19 18:27:06	xq	and the other 50% are self-made food gloryness
2020-06-19 18:28:01	dozens	i'm kind of over coffee. after a lifetime of obsession with it. I've been 100% decaf for many years now and it's really starting to lose its appeal.
2020-06-19 18:28:24	lukee	tea is good too
2020-06-19 18:28:42	dozens	I think the only reason I keep drinking it is because I get a micro caffeine kick from even decaf now. so if I'm actually serious about kicking caffeine all the way, i should just stop.
2020-06-19 18:28:48	dozens	yeah, I drink a lot of tea
2020-06-19 18:29:42	jan6	T E A
2020-06-19 18:29:58	xq	caffeine isn't that bad
2020-06-19 18:30:03	xq	but if you overdo it, you need more and more
2020-06-19 18:30:03	makeworld	lukee: Have you added bookmarks yet or is that upcoming?
2020-06-19 18:30:18	jan6	tea is good because there's SO MANY different options
2020-06-19 18:30:21	lukee	yes I've added them
2020-06-19 18:30:24	makeworld	I've been having tea every day bc of quarantine
2020-06-19 18:30:32	makeworld	Well, almost
2020-06-19 18:30:53	xq	i was at a point where i could straight up drink 1l of energy drinks and sleep like a baby. now small doses kick in again :D
2020-06-19 18:32:18	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 18:33:13	lukee	This is the bookmarks menu - you can just "add the current site" or edit the bookmarks in a simple gemini box
2020-06-19 18:33:14	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/nmbhlt6
2020-06-19 18:33:47	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 18:34:16	krixano	Does anybody know why I don't always get every email from the mailing list?
2020-06-19 18:34:52	krixano	For example, Martin Keegan wrote an email, and I can see that solderpunk quoted him, but I don't see his actual email
2020-06-19 18:34:54	xq	what mail server are you using?
2020-06-19 18:34:58	krixano	Protonmail
2020-06-19 18:35:14	makeworld	lukee: Great! Is that in the latest release on the site?
2020-06-19 18:35:20	makeworld	krixano: Same thing here
2020-06-19 18:35:29	makeworld	I figured it was the sender's client messing things up
2020-06-19 18:35:37	makeworld	I'm on Protonmail too
2020-06-19 18:35:42	makeworld	So maybe it's us?
2020-06-19 18:35:44	jan6	it's probably replying direct to person
2020-06-19 18:35:47	jan6	not to everyone
2020-06-19 18:35:58	@ben	it's possible that protonmail is blocking the listserv
2020-06-19 18:36:06	jan6	not selectively, I wouldn't think
2020-06-19 18:36:23	@ben	i had a similar situation with the tildeclub list but the problem was with fastmail not protonmail
2020-06-19 18:36:34	wgreenhouse	also a lot of normal mailclients don't do the best job of displaying the deeply nested nest of replies you get on an ML
2020-06-19 18:36:37	jan6	hmm, maybe a keyword search?
2020-06-19 18:36:49	jan6	don't deeply list then ;P
2020-06-19 18:37:07	xq	have you checked your spam folders already?
2020-06-19 18:37:14	@ben	as a protonmail customer you could reach out to support and ask them to whitelist the listserv
2020-06-19 18:37:24	@ben	the list maintainer could also reach out
2020-06-19 18:37:35	makeworld	But I get other listserv emails
2020-06-19 18:37:40	makeworld	So it doesn't make sense
2020-06-19 18:37:42	krixano	Yes, I've checked spam
2020-06-19 18:37:44	jan6	^ what I said
2020-06-19 18:37:45	@ben	from the same mailman instance?
2020-06-19 18:37:56	jan6	I wouldn't think that only SOME mails get blocked
2020-06-19 18:38:11	krixano	I'm a free protonmail "customer"
2020-06-19 18:38:14	jan6	I think it's just reply feature sometimes defaulting to only replying to one person
2020-06-19 18:38:23	@ben	it's very possible that they're getting greylisted
2020-06-19 18:38:23	jan6	on some clients, with some messages
2020-06-19 18:38:27	lukee	makeworld: I've not pushed a binary build to my website, but the source is in Github just now
2020-06-19 18:38:27	@ben	or just dropped
2020-06-19 18:38:46	jan6	I guess people could try to compare blocked messages, if there's some keyword search or something
2020-06-19 18:38:46	@ben	who runs lists.orbitalfox.eu?
2020-06-19 18:38:58	makeworld	Idk
2020-06-19 18:39:08	makeworld	lukee: Cool, thanks.
2020-06-19 18:39:19	@ben	there's not even an MX record
2020-06-19 18:39:22	@ben	nor dmarc
2020-06-19 18:39:29	lukee	makeworld: do you need a binary?
2020-06-19 18:39:53	makeworld	Not immediately. I assume you'll release one soon?
2020-06-19 18:40:07	lukee	yes probably over the weekend
2020-06-19 18:40:20	makeworld	All good then
2020-06-19 18:40:22	lukee	I'll announce on the list when I do
2020-06-19 18:40:35	makeworld	It'd be nice if you made a Github release too
2020-06-19 18:40:39	makeworld	Oh ok, sounds good
2020-06-19 18:41:02	lukee	I'm never quite sure what a Github release is
2020-06-19 18:41:11	lukee	is that a thing?
2020-06-19 18:41:16	@ben	yes
2020-06-19 18:41:34	@ben	would be good to get those configuration issues addressed for the listserv
2020-06-19 18:41:47	jan6	github release is a special tag, basically, afaik
2020-06-19 18:41:53	jan6	but it's nice for users
2020-06-19 18:41:53	wgreenhouse	lukee: it's a git tag, plus releasenotes plus optionally you can drop in a build there.
2020-06-19 18:42:04	jan6	^ dropping builds is the best part
2020-06-19 18:42:06	@ben	tag with notes and optional binaries
2020-06-19 18:42:10	lukee	my git knowledge is a bit rudimentary.
2020-06-19 18:42:28	lukee	I prefer Hg
2020-06-19 18:42:33	jan6	prefer why?
2020-06-19 18:42:37	jan6	just because more experience?
2020-06-19 18:42:41	lukee	and there is a wonderful client for windows
2020-06-19 18:42:51	lukee	yes.
2020-06-19 18:42:56	wgreenhouse	git on windows is p. bad, indeed.
2020-06-19 18:43:10	lukee	But I have to admit Git won, sadly
2020-06-19 18:43:20	@ben	i've been trying sublime merge lately and it's really quite nice
2020-06-19 18:43:26	wgreenhouse	sourcehut can haz hg
2020-06-19 18:43:32	@ben	git bash is usable for the most part
2020-06-19 18:43:45	wgreenhouse	(I only noticed, haven't tried)
2020-06-19 18:44:10	lukee	well I figured I should get a github account
2020-06-19 18:44:20	@ben	github bad :P
2020-06-19 18:44:27	lukee	Actually I have a peculiar dual repo setup
2020-06-19 18:44:37	jan6	https://hg-git.github.io/
2020-06-19 18:44:57	lukee	yes I know, but I never got it working.
2020-06-19 18:44:58	xq	tiwesdaeg, you had one time where no optional was found?
2020-06-19 18:45:04	xq	was it libstdc++-dev?
2020-06-19 18:45:21	lukee	I use Hg locally, then commit the same folder using git to github
2020-06-19 18:45:51	lukee	so my git usage is pretty minimal
2020-06-19 18:45:54	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I'm pretty sure I found all the deendencies
2020-06-19 18:46:51	lukee	I should just spend a weekend in a dark room and learn git properly
2020-06-19 18:47:05	lukee	that said who doesnt have better things to do with their time?
2020-06-19 18:47:21	xq	friend of mine tries linux mint and there's stuff missing :D
2020-06-19 18:47:30	~tiwesdaeg	ahhh
2020-06-19 18:47:42	~tiwesdaeg	ubuntu based I think
2020-06-19 18:47:47	~tiwesdaeg	or did they switch to debian?
2020-06-19 18:47:56	xq	i think they're debian based
2020-06-19 18:48:28	~tiwesdaeg	I got it to compile on deban before it died
2020-06-19 18:48:44	xq	:D
2020-06-19 18:49:00	jan6	last I checked mint was ubuntu, and then there was a separate debian version of it
2020-06-19 18:49:04	jan6	idk if it's changed
2020-06-19 18:49:19	xq	i really need a VM slave…
2020-06-19 18:50:37	~tiwesdaeg	give me a minute
2020-06-19 18:50:51	~tiwesdaeg	still trying to get x up and running on freebsd
2020-06-19 18:51:08	~tiwesdaeg	the new os of my stupid old at work computer
2020-06-19 18:52:56	xq	> g++ (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.12) 5.4.0 20160609
2020-06-19 18:52:57	xq	ouch
2020-06-19 18:54:21	jan6	well, duh
2020-06-19 18:54:42	jan6	ubuntu from 2016 has a compiler from 2016, who'd have thought
2020-06-19 18:55:11	xq	that's the good thing about rolling release
2020-06-19 18:55:14	xq	your system never gets old
2020-06-19 18:55:16	~tiwesdaeg	who is running ubuntu 16.04 still?
2020-06-19 18:55:59	⚡	tiwesdaeg downloads another 200mb at 1.5mbit
2020-06-19 18:56:28	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 18:56:53	~tiwesdaeg	we have a "morale" inernet connection at work
2020-06-19 18:57:00	jan6	morale?
2020-06-19 18:57:07	~tiwesdaeg	it's an ancient dsl line
2020-06-19 18:57:19	~tiwesdaeg	morale is another way of saying fun in the military
2020-06-19 18:57:40	~tiwesdaeg	no one knows who is paying for it anymore or when it was installed
2020-06-19 18:57:56	jan6	I'd like if there were more semi-rolling distros, where you get like, say, monthly updates, or so
2020-06-19 18:58:00	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 18:58:04	jan6	gotta love mystery net
2020-06-19 18:58:10	~tiwesdaeg	we can't use the official work network
2020-06-19 18:59:13	jan6	heard someone got an infinite sim card that way for many years, that they worked at a phone sale place, and got demo sims, and one time they forgot to deactivate it, and he could use it for like 6 more years or something, even got it transferred when it got stolen
2020-06-19 18:59:34	jan6	mystery DSL line sounds fun to me
2020-06-19 18:59:48	~tiwesdaeg	it's slow and unstable
2020-06-19 18:59:52	~tiwesdaeg	tone of fun
2020-06-19 19:00:21	~tiwesdaeg	even ssh/mosh can be a pain when it's unstable
2020-06-19 19:00:55	jan6	heh
2020-06-19 19:01:13	jan6	use telnet? ;P
2020-06-19 19:01:20	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 19:01:41	@tomasino	lvgx: haha, so I did
2020-06-19 19:02:12	~tiwesdaeg	across the street is a giant Bass Pro Shop
2020-06-19 19:02:36	~tiwesdaeg	so we named the wifi SSID after it to further obfuscate the connection
2020-06-19 19:03:37	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 19:03:47	jan6	obfuscate what connection and why?
2020-06-19 19:03:59	jan6	DSL connection into wifi?
2020-06-19 19:04:13	~tiwesdaeg	mmm 163kB/s I would have killed for that back in the mid 90's
2020-06-19 19:04:28	~tiwesdaeg	we all connect to it over wifi
2020-06-19 19:04:32	jan6	lol
2020-06-19 19:04:43	jan6	"we all" no wonder it's slow and unreliable then
2020-06-19 19:04:44	~tiwesdaeg	just an old dsl modem wired in to a modern router
2020-06-19 19:05:15	~tiwesdaeg	I can be the only one here and it will just stop for 10 seconds then start letting packets through again
2020-06-19 19:05:42	~tiwesdaeg	I don't have enough monthly bandwidth on my cell plan to tether all the time
2020-06-19 19:06:08	jan6	over here you can get prepaid sims, where if you go over data cap, and I THINK even without paying, you get infinite free sloooow internet ;P
2020-06-19 19:06:43	jan6	probably similar speeds, or slower
2020-06-19 19:07:15	~tiwesdaeg	same here generally
2020-06-19 19:07:31	~tiwesdaeg	if I go ver 7gb, I get like 2g speeds
2020-06-19 19:07:43	jan6	I wonder if there's a way to hook up multiple sims/WWAN adapters, and get faster speeds, probably would require a server to combine them, but still
2020-06-19 19:08:15	jan6	could be fun workaround, until you greate a tree of usb splitters and adapters, lol
2020-06-19 19:08:19	jan6	*create
2020-06-19 19:10:01	▬▬▶	symbiont has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 19:25:37	xq	krixano: do you know more about github actions?
2020-06-19 19:29:07		symbiont has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 19:56:36		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 19:59:57	krixano	I don't really know a whole lot about github actions.
2020-06-19 20:01:19	xfnw	post-receive-hooks > github actions
2020-06-19 20:04:47	acdw	does github just do post-receive hooks on the backend?
2020-06-19 20:17:35	krixano	xq, your commit when trying to fix windows build for CI, it looks like you're missing the last quote
2020-06-19 20:17:51	krixano	Ah, you already tried fixing that
2020-06-19 20:18:16	krixano	Ah, I see the problem
2020-06-19 20:18:23	krixano	Call isn't a powershell command, it's for cmd
2020-06-19 20:19:15	krixano	xq, It might help you to look at Odin's Ci config: https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/blob/master/.github/workflows/ci.yml
2020-06-19 20:23:16	krixano	If you want to use powershell anyways, for some odd reason, then I *think* doing "Invoke-BatchFile" instead of "call" would work, but idk... I don't use powershell crap
2020-06-19 20:44:35	krixano	xq, I don't know if you want to use msvc's compiler or mingw's compiler
2020-06-19 20:45:12	xq	i want to use mingw/gcc
2020-06-19 20:45:14	xq	makes stuff easier
2020-06-19 20:45:56	krixano	I got msvc's compiler called in the CI (in my fork of Kristall), but the problem now is that you're using the makefile qmake generates for msvc, but then using mingw's make, and those are incompatible
2020-06-19 20:46:49	krixano	It's just as easy to make this use msvc if you want. Or you can use mingw, in which case I don't even think the vcvarsall thing needs to be called, but not sure
2020-06-19 20:55:30	~tiwesdaeg	41 files changed, 1278 insertions(+), 559 deletions(-)
2020-06-19 20:55:42	~tiwesdaeg	every day is an adventure in kristall land
2020-06-19 20:55:45	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-19 20:56:05	~tiwesdaeg	I finally got home to my functional computer
2020-06-19 20:56:17	~tiwesdaeg	I need to go make pizza dough soon
2020-06-19 20:56:36	krixano	I'm trying to get the Windows CI build working for Kristall atm. I'm *almost* there
2020-06-19 20:59:25	krixano	I'm getting this error from the qmake-generated makefile now:
2020-06-19 20:59:27	krixano	> No rule to make target 'D:/a/kristall/Qt/5.12.9/msvc2017_64/lib/libQt5Svg.a', needed by 'release/kristall.exe'.  Stop.
2020-06-19 21:01:19	acdw	pizza dough YUM
2020-06-19 21:02:01	dozens	mmmm pizza dough
2020-06-19 21:02:12	dozens	maybe i'll bake some pizza tonight..
2020-06-19 21:02:21	acdw	don't even need stuff on it. just eat that dough raw
2020-06-19 21:02:29	acdw	not really, don't do that
2020-06-19 21:02:57	acdw	i mean do what you want i guess
2020-06-19 21:03:01	~tiwesdaeg	I do the cast iron pan method
2020-06-19 21:03:03	acdw	pizza is soo good
2020-06-19 21:03:17	acdw	oh that sounds awesome! You just mush it in the cast iron and ... oven? Or stovetop?
2020-06-19 21:03:30	~tiwesdaeg	preheat the pans at 450(crazy american temp) and bake away
2020-06-19 21:03:47	acdw	yes! And thanks for crazy american temp - I am a crazy american
2020-06-19 21:04:04	acdw	that's .... about 200 C ?
2020-06-19 21:04:23	~tiwesdaeg	you just take out the pan, shape your dough and put it in, then apply sauce, cheese, toppings
2020-06-19 21:04:32	~tiwesdaeg	bake until you're happy with the cheese browning
2020-06-19 21:04:44	~tiwesdaeg	230
2020-06-19 21:05:58	acdw	that sounds amazing!
2020-06-19 21:06:24	acdw	I've been trying to convert F to C in my head so I can know what everyone else is talking about without saying 'uhhh American plz'
2020-06-19 21:08:09	acdw	I literally just had pizza 2 nights ago but I am wanting some right now
2020-06-19 21:08:25	acdw	do you make sourdough dough? Or use yeast?
2020-06-19 21:09:10	~tiwesdaeg	there's a guy on my washington state primary ballot running for governor with the name GoodSpaceGuy
2020-06-19 21:09:21	acdw	oh that's good
2020-06-19 21:09:32	~tiwesdaeg	running as part of the Trump Republican Party
2020-06-19 21:09:42	acdw	everyone running in louisiana (or alll the "good ol boys") have ridiculous nicknames
2020-06-19 21:09:46	acdw	like "Crawdaddy"
2020-06-19 21:09:46	~tiwesdaeg	which I guess is different from the Republican Party?
2020-06-19 21:09:53	acdw	oh yeah I'd hope so
2020-06-19 21:09:58	~tiwesdaeg	you're in LA?
2020-06-19 21:10:08	~tiwesdaeg	I'm in MS
2020-06-19 21:10:29	~tiwesdaeg	I just get to vote in WA, because I'm special
2020-06-19 21:10:41	acdw	oh nice! Yes I'm in Louisiana.
2020-06-19 21:10:53	acdw	My cousins live in MS .. my dad is from Starkville
2020-06-19 21:11:23	~tiwesdaeg	I'm in Hernando, in the Memphis area
2020-06-19 21:11:44	acdw	Oh cool. I've actually only been to Memphis once, though I'm from TN
2020-06-19 21:11:45	~tiwesdaeg	my bosses are down in NOLA
2020-06-19 21:11:51	acdw	I'm from East TN though so it's far
2020-06-19 21:11:58	acdw	oh nice. I hope they're safe with the virus
2020-06-19 21:12:05	~tiwesdaeg	Memphis, the largest city in Mississippi
2020-06-19 21:12:08	acdw	lolol
2020-06-19 21:12:45	~tiwesdaeg	culturally, it's way more mississippian
2020-06-19 21:13:01	acdw	I have a friend from Germantown who'd probably agree with you
2020-06-19 21:13:07	acdw	she's in Oxford now, loves it
2020-06-19 21:13:12	acdw	I still need to visit actually
2020-06-19 21:13:13	~tiwesdaeg	ahh, ritzville ;P
2020-06-19 21:13:22	acdw	oh yeah, she's from money haha
2020-06-19 21:13:35	~tiwesdaeg	I looked at houses there when I moved out here
2020-06-19 21:13:42	~tiwesdaeg	but I wanted more land
2020-06-19 21:13:42	acdw	oh nice
2020-06-19 21:13:55	~tiwesdaeg	and less rules about chickens
2020-06-19 21:14:02	acdw	Oh you have chickens?!
2020-06-19 21:14:04	acdw	Awesome
2020-06-19 21:14:09	~tiwesdaeg	I'm actually out in DeSoto county
2020-06-19 21:14:09	acdw	My wife wants to get chickens
2020-06-19 21:14:18	~tiwesdaeg	they are special creatures
2020-06-19 21:14:36	~tiwesdaeg	I actually have one hen who is finally sitting on eggs
2020-06-19 21:14:47	acdw	very cool
2020-06-19 21:14:51	~tiwesdaeg	you want some roosters?
2020-06-19 21:14:58	~tiwesdaeg	with my luck, they will all be male
2020-06-19 21:15:05	acdw	haha I don't think they'll work out with our dogs
2020-06-19 21:15:11	acdw	and my wife really wants the eggs
2020-06-19 21:15:22	acdw	which I don't think roosters will make ;P
2020-06-19 21:16:07	~tiwesdaeg	you can just eat them
2020-06-19 21:16:10	@tomasino	just gotta squeeze 'em harder
2020-06-19 21:16:16	~tiwesdaeg	I hate plucking feathers though
2020-06-19 21:16:30	acdw	oh lord
2020-06-19 21:16:44	acdw	yeah that doesn't sound like fun to me, though I've never done it
2020-06-19 21:16:51	acdw	I grew up in the country but not on a farm
2020-06-19 21:17:00	acdw	my parents *had* chickens, but before I came along
2020-06-19 21:17:00	yeti	1 or 2 decades ago there were experiments with naked chicken
2020-06-19 21:17:06	acdw	ewww
2020-06-19 21:17:10	acdw	oh those poor bird
2020-06-19 21:17:12	acdw	s
2020-06-19 21:17:30	yeti	we joked those days... "and then they will put some lemmings genes into them too"
2020-06-19 21:17:43	yeti	to make them jump into the boiling oil
2020-06-19 21:17:44	acdw	they'll just kill themselves!
2020-06-19 21:17:45	acdw	hahaha
2020-06-19 21:18:16	acdw	lobsters n crabs too
2020-06-19 21:18:19	~tiwesdaeg	people love fancy chickens
2020-06-19 21:18:27	acdw	strong Restaurant at the End of the Universe vibes
2020-06-19 21:18:27	~tiwesdaeg	dough time
2020-06-19 21:18:31	acdw	yummm
2020-06-19 21:22:20	xq	<krixano> I'm trying to get the Windows CI build working for Kristall atm. I'm *almost* there
2020-06-19 21:22:21	xq	neat!
2020-06-19 21:23:00	krixano	Yeah, I got as far as mingw-make giving me an error, which I posted previously
2020-06-19 21:23:29	krixano	> No rule to make target 'D:/a/kristall/Qt/5.12.9/msvc2017_64/lib/libQt5Svg.a', needed by 'release/kristall.exe'.  Stop.
2020-06-19 21:23:45	xq	hm
2020-06-19 21:23:57	xq	you can probably exclude svg as a module on windows
2020-06-19 21:24:02	xq	it's a dynamic plugin on win
2020-06-19 21:24:30	krixano	I don't know where to do that, lol. I've never used qt
2020-06-19 21:24:39	xq	kristall.pro
2020-06-19 21:24:46	xq	there's a QT += … svg
2020-06-19 21:25:17	krixano	Ok, thanks
2020-06-19 21:26:25	krixano	Btw, in order to get qmake to generate the proper makefile for mingw, you just needed to add "-platform win32-g++"
2020-06-19 21:26:32	xq	ah!
2020-06-19 21:26:48	xq	would be awesome to have an automated linux build
2020-06-19 21:32:08	krixano	Here in Odin's nightly build file it shows how you can automatically upload artifacts from the CI: https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/blob/master/.github/workflows/nightly.yml#L63
2020-06-19 21:33:36	krixano	And then those artifacts will show up in the Actions page
2020-06-19 21:41:50	~tiwesdaeg	the dough is rising!
2020-06-19 21:43:57	acdw	:D
2020-06-19 21:44:04	acdw	.-"-.
2020-06-19 21:44:08	acdw	^ that's yr dough
2020-06-19 21:45:30	xq	<krixano> And then those artifacts will show up in the Actions page
2020-06-19 21:45:32	xq	neat
2020-06-19 21:45:47	companion_cube	krixano: is odin fast to compile, btw?
2020-06-19 21:46:36	krixano	Yeah, it's pretty fast. I's going to get faster after the llvm C api update is done, which looks like might be soon since they got it almost working on Linux
2020-06-19 21:47:25	companion_cube	hu, it's fast despite compiling via llvm? :D
2020-06-19 21:48:54	krixano	I mean, it's just as fast as everything else that compiles llvm. Of course, that isn't fast based on what's possible
2020-06-19 21:49:04	krixano	* the compiled with llvm
2020-06-19 21:49:25	xq	yeah
2020-06-19 21:49:31	⚡	xq is excited for Zig stage2 debug builds
2020-06-19 21:49:34	xq	turbo to the max :D
2020-06-19 21:52:24	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 21:53:04	companion_cube	krixano: well in my experience languages that compile through llvm don't compile too fast :D
2020-06-19 21:53:09	companion_cube	they do produce good code, mind you
2020-06-19 21:53:10	jan6	o/ thewetcrab
2020-06-19 21:54:05	krixano	No, they don't, based on what's possible. But like, Odin isn't as slow as Rust or even Golang, that's all I was saying.
2020-06-19 21:55:13	companion_cube	hu, I thought Go compiled super fast
2020-06-19 21:56:45	krixano	No, it doesn't
2020-06-19 21:56:49	krixano	Not in my experience at least
2020-06-19 21:57:31	thewetcrab	hey jan6, just back here as I am about to attempt to write my gophermap page and wanted to be in the company of other slow web users whilst I work on it :)
2020-06-19 21:57:58	acdw	yo
2020-06-19 21:58:05	@tomasino	hey
2020-06-19 21:58:54	thewetcrab	Hellow tomasino, I loved the chat about finger protocol earlier and .profile and .plan with you eariler today.
2020-06-19 21:59:08	thewetcrab	I have just discovered /now pages, which also sound similar.
2020-06-19 21:59:19	xq	thewetcrab, what is /now pages?
2020-06-19 22:00:12	yeti	.project(?) and .plan
2020-06-19 22:00:41	yeti	.profile is sh-startup stuff
2020-06-19 22:01:05	xq	that's the init file for the sh server *trololo*
2020-06-19 22:01:16	acdw	now pages are great
2020-06-19 22:01:22	⚡	tiwesdaeg cries in git
2020-06-19 22:01:22	acdw	nownownow.com I think?
2020-06-19 22:01:37	@tomasino	.project
2020-06-19 22:01:40	@tomasino	yes, not .profile
2020-06-19 22:01:41	~tiwesdaeg	I was going to try a pull request and It's so complicated
2020-06-19 22:01:55	@tomasino	but .plan is right
2020-06-19 22:01:57	xq	where? github?
2020-06-19 22:02:03	~tiwesdaeg	yeah
2020-06-19 22:02:07	xq	hm
2020-06-19 22:02:15	~tiwesdaeg	.pizza
2020-06-19 22:02:32	xq	fork the repo, create a new branch with the feature you want to push, push that branch to github, then click the link in the terminal :D
2020-06-19 22:02:35	@tomasino	xq: https://ttm.sh/QpG.txt
2020-06-19 22:02:37	xq	or create a PR by hand
2020-06-19 22:02:44	xq	DAMN
2020-06-19 22:02:46	~tiwesdaeg	toppings = onion, jalapeno, ham
2020-06-19 22:02:53	xq	i get warnings that this stuff is deprecated here …
2020-06-19 22:03:04	xq	and i should use fm.horizontalAdvance instead of fm.width
2020-06-19 22:03:07	yeti	no garlic?
2020-06-19 22:03:10	yeti	ts ts ts
2020-06-19 22:03:16	acdw	mmm garlic
2020-06-19 22:03:17	~tiwesdaeg	it's everywhere in the crust and sauce
2020-06-19 22:03:22	yeti	ok
2020-06-19 22:03:59	~tiwesdaeg	I think I had a github account once
2020-06-19 22:04:51	xq	tomasino, pushed a fix
2020-06-19 22:05:08	@tomasino	yay
2020-06-19 22:05:40	@tomasino	oh you and the asserts
2020-06-19 22:05:54	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QpK.txt
2020-06-19 22:06:12	xq	it does work here! :D
2020-06-19 22:06:47	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-19 22:08:13	xq	you have to wait a bit for that fix
2020-06-19 22:08:16	xq	can you make a PR? :D
2020-06-19 22:08:54	@tomasino	:P
2020-06-19 22:13:02	@tomasino	xq: https://ttm.sh/Qpz.txt
2020-06-19 22:13:03	@tomasino	diff
2020-06-19 22:13:35	@tomasino	hey, auto-expanded document structure! woo
2020-06-19 22:14:01	xq	yep
2020-06-19 22:15:16	xq	patched, but not pushed
2020-06-19 22:15:43	@tomasino	who is mozz on irc?
2020-06-19 22:15:50	xq	there's a hot feature coming up!
2020-06-19 22:16:07	xq	it's both security and convenience feature at the same time :
2020-06-19 22:16:14	@tomasino	mozz person, i also have a favicon on tilde.black!
2020-06-19 22:16:23	@tomasino	i like double features
2020-06-19 22:16:33	@tomasino	nice new kristall icon too
2020-06-19 22:16:48	xq	spoiler: it will make playing astrobotany even more joyful
2020-06-19 22:17:02	@tomasino	yay
2020-06-19 22:17:10	@tomasino	oh, feature request: rename bookmarks
2020-06-19 22:17:15	@tomasino	something human-readable
2020-06-19 22:18:06	xq	it's on the bucket list already
2020-06-19 22:18:27	xq	0.4 though
2020-06-19 22:18:40	@tomasino	cool
2020-06-19 22:18:51	@tomasino	i like just throwing out requests at you
2020-06-19 22:18:55	@tomasino	you're so fast at these things
2020-06-19 22:19:06	@tomasino	meanwhile i get a request on my RSVP plugin and i'm like.... eh, nah
2020-06-19 22:19:38	xq	i love coding applications *for* people
2020-06-19 22:19:48	xq	so people can use their computer better
2020-06-19 22:19:57	xq	i do that for a living and for a hobby
2020-06-19 22:20:59	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-19 22:21:02	@tomasino	this is a nice one
2020-06-19 22:21:13	@tomasino	hm, i wonder if a rsvp for gemini would be good to make
2020-06-19 22:21:15	@tomasino	hmmmmmm
2020-06-19 22:21:28	@tomasino	https://ino.is/stutter -- this is my browser plugin
2020-06-19 22:22:06	@tomasino	it would be very easy to handle gemini parsing. It could even be combined with a line-by-line step method
2020-06-19 22:22:22	@tomasino	UI would be the annoying bit
2020-06-19 22:22:28		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 22:22:46	xq	what does that do?
2020-06-19 22:22:55	@tomasino	rapid serial visual presentation?
2020-06-19 22:23:02	@tomasino	click the video link in the readme
2020-06-19 22:23:07	@tomasino	it'll explain it better than words
2020-06-19 22:23:42	xq	oh, interesting
2020-06-19 22:24:15	@tomasino	i use it on longform stuf all the time and read around 1000wpm
2020-06-19 22:24:42	@tomasino	there's a bunch of science under the hood on specific rules around timing of words and punctuation to make it more understandable and retainable
2020-06-19 22:25:01	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 22:25:08	@tomasino	i've got a journal paper right now on my todo for implementation to add "flankers" to the display. The words before and after the target word
2020-06-19 22:25:19	@tomasino	they nominally help retention, even if they're gibberish
2020-06-19 22:25:24	thewetcrab	Just found this, haven't watched it all but have a feeling you will like it
2020-06-19 22:25:24	thewetcrab	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szdbKz5CyhA
2020-06-19 22:25:26	@tomasino	real interesting study in canada
2020-06-19 22:27:02	@tomasino	i love this video
2020-06-19 22:27:06	@tomasino	i love the guy's password too
2020-06-19 22:27:19	krixano	Ok, my howdoi interface for gemini is finally done!
2020-06-19 22:27:25	krixano	gemini://pon.ix.tc:1965/cgi-bin/howdoi.cgi?split%20string%20in%20golang
2020-06-19 22:27:28	@tomasino	yay!
2020-06-19 22:28:39	@tomasino	this video is making me so happy
2020-06-19 22:28:59	xq	that video is retro!
2020-06-19 22:31:51	@tomasino	the ending is STELLAR
2020-06-19 22:31:53	@tomasino	holy shit
2020-06-19 22:32:22	@tomasino	cat: you are gonna love this! it's right up your alley - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szdbKz5CyhA
2020-06-19 22:37:06	thewetcrab	tomasino I loved his password too - super secure for sure! :')
2020-06-19 22:37:14	@tomasino	1234
2020-06-19 22:37:16	@tomasino	amazing
2020-06-19 22:37:31	thewetcrab	I think you might be right, but don't tell anyone. We can't let anyone know ha ha
2020-06-19 22:37:33	@tomasino	phenominal find
2020-06-19 22:37:40	thewetcrab	This video makes me happy too, but I can't tell you why
2020-06-19 22:37:49	@tomasino	seeeeeecrets
2020-06-19 22:38:01	thewetcrab	I think I will have a retro / old web section on my gopher/gemini with link to things like the video
2020-06-19 22:38:12	@tomasino	do you have the same awesome sweater as that host? cause she was pulling it off well
2020-06-19 22:38:18	thewetcrab	In the past I will have collected a few things, but I probably don't know where they are now
2020-06-19 22:39:37	thewetcrab	My jumpers aren't quite as good as the hosts, I have long sleeves on my jumpers but they are similar-ish
2020-06-19 22:40:20	~tiwesdaeg	didn't they also broadcast data via bbc radio back then?
2020-06-19 22:41:05	thewetcrab	I'm not sure tiwesdaeg, do you mean broadcast a data audio tone for people to record?
2020-06-19 22:41:11	@tomasino	yeah
2020-06-19 22:41:58	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 22:42:54	thewetcrab	Not as far as I am aware, but it sounds like it could be possible
2020-06-19 22:43:11	thewetcrab	tomasino another amazing retro video for you - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vw1NKuWMDY
2020-06-19 22:43:50	thewetcrab	four 4's for the password :D
2020-06-19 22:44:31	xq	lovely
2020-06-19 22:44:45	xq	tomasino, tiwesdaeg: pull and fetch the latest kristall feature:
2020-06-19 22:44:47	@tomasino	i'm crushing on jane ashton now
2020-06-19 22:45:13	xq	Client Certificate host restriction + auto-enable
2020-06-19 22:45:45	thewetcrab	I like that there is a welcome screen, it reminds me of when I was doing a website for someone and they wanted a 'welcome page' and I was like ....... no, no, no, people know they are on your website, they navigated to it on purpose, let's cut straight to the content and have the blog as the front page.
2020-06-19 22:46:12	thewetcrab	This was in my web 2.0 days, which I am now (almost literally/physically/mental) trying to recover from.
2020-06-19 22:46:16	xq	https://i.imgur.com/zq1zXdQ.png
2020-06-19 22:46:43	acdw	xq that is amazine
2020-06-19 22:46:44	acdw	g
2020-06-19 22:47:00	xq	it's really nice that it's actually BOTH security AND convenience
2020-06-19 22:47:13	xq	i don't want the astrobotany certificate outside astrobotany
2020-06-19 22:47:16	xq	but i want it there always
2020-06-19 22:47:22	xq	→ use the same pattern for both
2020-06-19 22:47:24	thewetcrab	tomasino Why all of a sudden do I have Waynes World in my head "She's a babe" ..... "She's a mega babe" .... ha ha
2020-06-19 22:48:00	acdw	If she were a president she'd be Babraham Lincoln
2020-06-19 22:48:26	acdw	That is funny but did not age well
2020-06-19 22:49:44	thewetcrab	Yeah probably very sexist now amongst other -isms no doubt
2020-06-19 22:50:16	xq	okay, enough for today. i'll go to bed
2020-06-19 22:50:22	xq	alarm goes in 7 hours already
2020-06-19 22:50:27	acdw	o/
2020-06-19 22:50:43	thewetcrab	Why does Prestel / Micronet 800 look like teletext?
2020-06-19 22:50:53	thewetcrab	Does everyone know what telext was?
2020-06-19 22:51:55	thewetcrab	Prestell has over 150,000 pages of information that are constantly updated ...... like wow! :D
2020-06-19 22:52:41	thewetcrab	There is definitely a brevity to the information on prestel pages tomasino
2020-06-19 22:53:35	thewetcrab	pestel looks suspiciously similar to gopher, just with colour
2020-06-19 22:53:43	@tomasino	ahh, you want color gopher?
2020-06-19 22:53:44	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-19 22:53:48	@tomasino	we've got you covered
2020-06-19 22:53:52	@tomasino	check out some of the stuff on tilde.pink
2020-06-19 22:53:56	thewetcrab	well about 5 colours maybe
2020-06-19 22:53:58	@tomasino	you'll want to use not lynx though
2020-06-19 22:54:05	@tomasino	vf1, maybe
2020-06-19 22:54:11	thewetcrab	What do I use in place of lynx on windows10?
2020-06-19 22:54:26	@tomasino	brilliant feature xq
2020-06-19 22:54:44	@tomasino	no clue... color is done with ansi color codes, so it probably won't work at all on windows
2020-06-19 22:54:58	@tomasino	it's not very wide spread because it only works in certain places
2020-06-19 22:55:56	acdw	ansi color codes *sort of* work on windows
2020-06-19 22:56:02	acdw	but they're different
2020-06-19 22:56:04	acdw	afaik
2020-06-19 22:56:17	thewetcrab	Just browsing tilde-pink, I love the news section, everything one one page,
2020-06-19 22:56:24	companion_cube	ahaha amazing, wikipedia on gemini
2020-06-19 22:56:36	thewetcrab	I'll have to find something that works with colour on win10 later
2020-06-19 22:56:46		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-19 22:57:17	thewetcrab	I am debating how / if I should break things up across pages or if I should just have long pages. Is there a rule of thumb for this tomasino?
2020-06-19 22:57:26	@tomasino	nope, do as you like
2020-06-19 22:57:49	thewetcrab	For instance the tilde-pink old news section, each new article could be it's own page? Why did you choose one long page?
2020-06-19 22:58:11	@tomasino	i didn't make tilde.pink. that's tiwesdaeg's tilde with a bunch of users
2020-06-19 22:58:29	@tomasino	i suspect the news is treated like a changelog
2020-06-19 22:58:32	@tomasino	so it's just a simple file
2020-06-19 22:59:01	@tomasino	shufei's gemini capsule has her gemlog as one big document, though... so you can do it for other stuff
2020-06-19 22:59:07	@tomasino	however you like, thewetcrab 
2020-06-19 22:59:07	~tiwesdaeg	Copy paste forget
2020-06-19 23:00:00	@tomasino	i do something similar with the changelog that appears in the motd on cosmic.voyage. I have a single file in the wiki for my changelog and i just grab the first few blocks of it to display in the motd
2020-06-19 23:00:02	thewetcrab	hi tiwesdaeg we are just discussing tilde-pink, any reason why you made the old news page a single file rather than a new document for each news item?
2020-06-19 23:00:13	~tiwesdaeg	Jane Ashton that hot chick from the 80s video?
2020-06-19 23:00:21	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-19 23:00:26	@tomasino	hubba hubba
2020-06-19 23:00:29	~tiwesdaeg	Less complicated?
2020-06-19 23:00:36	thewetcrab	tomasino does VF1 run on linux do you know?
2020-06-19 23:00:38	~tiwesdaeg	We are in agreement
2020-06-19 23:00:41	@tomasino	yes
2020-06-19 23:00:47	@tomasino	pip3 install VF-1
2020-06-19 23:00:51	thewetcrab	Yes I can see how it is easier from a sysops point of viow
2020-06-19 23:00:59	@tomasino	then the executable is vf1
2020-06-19 23:01:08	@tomasino	assuming you have python3 installed
2020-06-19 23:01:11	thewetcrab	Cool might go install that on my linux machinne now just so I can see the pretty colous :)
2020-06-19 23:01:30	@tomasino	once you do that, also: pip3 install AV-98
2020-06-19 23:01:38	@tomasino	executable is "av98" and that is for browsing gemini
2020-06-19 23:01:57	@tomasino	vf1 and av98 have identical user guides. One is for gopher, one is for gemini. Both made by solderpunk
2020-06-19 23:02:03	@tomasino	time to make coffee
2020-06-19 23:02:05	@tomasino	back in a bit
2020-06-19 23:03:29	thewetcrab	wow just watched an advert for prestel, it must have been a revolution back then!
2020-06-19 23:03:52	thewetcrab	ah thank you tomasino I will go do that right now!
2020-06-19 23:04:23	thewetcrab	then it's time for me to go shortly, didn't make much progress with my gophermap, but it's been fun chatting and discovering more of the old web with you all :)
2020-06-19 23:10:05	thewetcrab	Just bookmarking a few vital tabs before I go install the gemini / gopher clients on linux ....
2020-06-19 23:21:04	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-19 23:22:17	makeworld	Anyone have good links for testing different encodings besides the two client tests?
2020-06-19 23:22:27	makeworld	Like JIS, or korean encodings, etc
2020-06-19 23:22:39	makeworld	Testing out extra charset support for Amfora
2020-06-19 23:23:07	thewetcrab	Just found another awesome article about why old web standards are better than modern news feeds. This is really worth a read - https://prtksxna.com/never-nothing-to-see/
2020-06-19 23:27:40	thewetcrab	Another interesting thought here, it's a good reminder for myself that not everything needs to be in reverse chronological order - https://prtksxna.com/bookmark-how-the-blog-broke-the-web/
2020-06-19 23:28:14	thewetcrab	So I guess my Gopher/Gemini with be exactly that. An archive (or list) of things I curate because I find them interesting or useful
2020-06-19 23:35:13	thewetcrab	Do VF-1 and AV-98 get run from the command line?
2020-06-19 23:43:36	thewetcrab	I will call back tomorrow but I have both of those installed now :)
2020-06-19 23:44:42	kensanata	Both run in a terminal
2020-06-19 23:45:30		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-19 23:46:07	krixano	I'm like so close to getting youtube video downloads working for my gemini interface
2020-06-20 00:07:14	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 00:10:55		links has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 00:14:35	thewetcrab	more lovely content about the old web (or at least the 90s web) - https://mxb.dev/blog/the-return-of-the-90s-web/
2020-06-20 00:19:13	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 00:20:26		links has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 00:20:36	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 00:21:39		links has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 00:30:06		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 00:31:14	makeworld	Does anyone know if gemini://egsam.pitr.ca/3.3.utf16 is proper UTF-16?
2020-06-20 00:31:40	makeworld	The portal gives an error: https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/egsam.pitr.ca/3.3.utf16
2020-06-20 00:32:04	makeworld	And my client which should be able to work with UTF-16, displays: ᑭ쌕ᔤ�
2020-06-20 00:33:43	makeworld	But I don't know if that's correct or not
2020-06-20 00:34:46	makeworld	Hmm nvm, it looks like that's correct
2020-06-20 00:35:05	makeworld	I get m�$� when I cat it in the terminal, so the above must be correct
2020-06-20 00:44:23	makeworld	Alright, so now Amfora supports over 55 charsets
2020-06-20 00:44:31	makeworld	Hard to tell you which ones, but it does
2020-06-20 00:44:32	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-20 00:46:54	Sario528	Woo!
2020-06-20 00:47:22	Sario528	Now to figure out why Amfora doesn't want to work for me.
2020-06-20 00:50:22	makeworld	Oh, what's the issue?
2020-06-20 00:55:59	makeworld	Sario528
2020-06-20 00:56:50		cat has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 00:57:19	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 01:00:47	Sario528	Client doesn't seem to want to connect to anything
2020-06-20 01:02:00	Sario528	Does the client require a cert before it'll connect?
2020-06-20 01:10:04	makeworld	No, it should work fine
2020-06-20 01:10:09	makeworld	What's the error?
2020-06-20 01:10:15	makeworld	And platform you're on?
2020-06-20 01:11:22	makeworld	Sario528: Sorry, got to go now. Feel free to file an issue on Github so that we can track this further
2020-06-20 02:19:00		xfnw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 02:19:09	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 02:48:02		Sario528 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-20 02:57:58	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 03:37:30	ℹ 	lick is now known as xfnw|android
2020-06-20 03:45:19	makeworld	Sario528: Idk if you saw my msg, since you left. If you're still experiencing an issue the best thing might be to open an issue an Github, since I'll be going to bed soon
2020-06-20 05:09:24	styan	I (finally) added proxy support to libgeminiclient(3), so now I can use gemini-cat(1) instead of geminawk(1) for ill-behaved onion capsules. :-)
2020-06-20 05:10:53	styan	I also had an idea.  Something like gemini-cat(1), but it runs something based off of the mime-type and pipes the document into it.
2020-06-20 05:11:47	styan	The real question is, gemini-stream(1), gemini-open(1), or gemini-plumb(1)?
2020-06-20 05:25:09	@tomasino	plumb!
2020-06-20 05:57:01		jan has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 05:57:08		kayw has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-20 05:57:09		thombles has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-20 05:57:09		jeffpc has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-20 05:57:09		makeworld has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-20 05:57:09		Sario528 has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-20 05:57:09		cat has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-20 05:57:09		lvgx has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-20 05:57:09		mk270 has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-20 05:57:11	▬▬▶	mk270 has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 05:57:12	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 05:57:14	▬▬▶	jeffpc has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 05:57:21	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 05:57:26	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 05:57:26	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 05:57:48	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 06:27:47	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 06:27:53		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-20 07:23:20	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 07:37:51	xq	styan: gemini-open, as plumb is "reserved" by the plan9 guys :D
2020-06-20 07:46:52	xq	ha!
2020-06-20 07:46:58	xq	Kristall survived the torture suite
2020-06-20 07:47:03	xq	shoutout to Qt here!
2020-06-20 07:47:03	xq	:D
2020-06-20 07:56:58		Ernoz has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-20 08:27:13	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 08:43:58	styan	It is gemini-pipe(1), and it is in the libgeminiclient repository.
2020-06-20 08:45:18		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-20 08:46:07	styan	It does not have pattern matching (yet?), or any preloaded mime-types.  It does, however, have examples in the man-page.
2020-06-20 10:01:47	`epochbot	where's libgeminiclient?
2020-06-20 10:05:47	`epochbot	if I could start using stuff others have written instead of using more of my own terrible code I'd like to
2020-06-20 10:22:54	styan	`epochbot: https://tildegit.org/styan/libgeminiclient
2020-06-20 10:24:35	styan	It is LibreSSL only, though I think that someone (who understands TLS better than me) could make a libtls for some other library.
2020-06-20 10:28:57	⚡	`epochbot checks out the code for url parsing and percent-encoding
2020-06-20 10:30:21	styan	I do not think that it does full url parsing, just enough to extract the host and port.
2020-06-20 10:32:17	styan	Oh, it just skipped the most obnoxious part (IPv6) because tls_connect would fail anyway.
2020-06-20 10:42:53	`epochbot	seems like no libtls in debian, so I'll have to install it myself.
2020-06-20 10:57:24	styan	I hope the README does a good enough job at explaining my weird Makefile.
2020-06-20 10:59:12	`epochbot	still building libressl and libtls atm
2020-06-20 10:59:29	`epochbot	a link to this from the readme would be handy
2020-06-20 10:59:51	`epochbot	one line to prevent having to use a search engine. :)
2020-06-20 11:02:20	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 11:08:23	`epochbot	so, message/gemini
2020-06-20 11:09:29	styan	`epochbot: I added a PREREQUISITES section.
2020-06-20 11:10:20	`epochbot	:) thank you
2020-06-20 11:10:34	styan	Thank you for the suggestion. :-)
2020-06-20 11:13:37	`epochbot	I'm thinking of making message/* handlers and things that will return data in that format so the code that makes the request is separate from the code that parses the request
2020-06-20 11:15:25	`epochbot	looks like libressl is using some other way of picking the directory it expects to be installed to other than PREFIX or prefix
2020-06-20 11:16:00	`epochbot	uses prefix in most places...
2020-06-20 11:16:46	`epochbot	or I probably missed an option for configure
2020-06-20 11:17:04	`epochbot	merp. yep
2020-06-20 11:17:20	`epochbot	./configure --prefix
2020-06-20 11:18:14	styan	I wonder if my code will break on Linux due to two uses of strlcpy(3).
2020-06-20 11:18:52	styan	Also, the message thing sounds neat.
2020-06-20 11:19:51	`epochbot	it should be applicable to message/http too, gopher doesn't have any response headers so...
2020-06-20 11:22:21	`epochbot	I can never remember the syntax for "case" in bash
2020-06-20 11:22:32	styan	It looks like musl has strlcpy, but glibc does not.
2020-06-20 11:27:37	styan	Okay, it *should* work with glibc now.
2020-06-20 11:36:32	`epochbot	it built
2020-06-20 11:36:40	`epochbot	not even the warning it had before
2020-06-20 11:36:55	`epochbot	well, "make" went find
2020-06-20 11:36:57	`epochbot	fine*
2020-06-20 11:37:09	⚡	`epochbot make all
2020-06-20 11:37:35	`epochbot	built gemini-pipe and gemini-cat fine
2020-06-20 11:37:39	`epochbot	no warnings
2020-06-20 11:38:16	styan	Cool
2020-06-20 11:38:27	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I'm finally pulling kristall now
2020-06-20 11:38:39	`epochbot	gemini-cat ran against my own server
2020-06-20 11:39:56	`epochbot	I built it to ~/.local instead of as root to /usr/local
2020-06-20 11:42:23	`epochbot	I guess there's gotta be a stream vs file distinction for mime-type handler programs
2020-06-20 11:42:40	styan	I do not think that I have ever run the install targets from that Makefile, so I am glad that it worked. :-)
2020-06-20 11:42:41	`epochbot	where a stream handler just gets the data from stdin
2020-06-20 11:43:21	`epochbot	oh. hrm. I did install for libtls and stuff
2020-06-20 11:43:43	`epochbot	install target is missing "libgeminiclient.3"
2020-06-20 11:43:52	`epochbot	ah.
2020-06-20 11:43:55	`epochbot	there's a typo.
2020-06-20 11:44:02	`epochbot	gemeni instead of gemini
2020-06-20 11:44:21	`epochbot	make: *** No rule to make target 'libgem>>>e<<<niclient.3', needed by 'install'.  Stop.
2020-06-20 11:44:55	styan	Fixed, thanks!
2020-06-20 11:45:39	`epochbot	install -m444 libgeminiclient.3 \
2020-06-20 11:45:39	`epochbot	    "$DESTDIR/${PREFIX-usr/local}/${MANDIR:-man}/man3/"
2020-06-20 11:45:41	`epochbot	install: target '//home/epoch/.local/man/man3/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
2020-06-20 11:45:52	`epochbot	I don't have all the man dirs made already I guess.
2020-06-20 11:46:53	`epochbot	is there a -D in the BSD version of install? I think I remember there wasn't
2020-06-20 11:47:58	`epochbot	it means a different thing I think
2020-06-20 11:48:22	styan	There are `-D' (destination directory) and `-d' (create missing directories).
2020-06-20 11:49:02	`epochbot	       -d, --directory
2020-06-20 11:49:03	`epochbot	              treat all arguments as directory names; create all components of the specified directories
2020-06-20 11:49:11	`epochbot	       -D     create all leading components of DEST except the last, or all components of --target-directory, then copy SOURCE to DEST
2020-06-20 11:49:14	`epochbot	that's what they mean here
2020-06-20 11:50:09	styan	"-d         Create directories.  Missing parent directories are created as required."
2020-06-20 11:50:31	`epochbot	I think I remembered having this problem with trying to make BSD and Linux safe makefiles before and I just used mkdir -p before the install lines
2020-06-20 11:50:47	`epochbot	but I  might have just missed something back then, or stuff changed
2020-06-20 11:52:23	`epochbot	-d doesn't seem right for this, since libgeminiclient.3 isn't a directory?
2020-06-20 11:52:59	`epochbot	maybe the point of -d for install was to be able to make all the dirs you'll need at once
2020-06-20 11:53:02	styan	I do not really want to mess with the directory hiarachy when copying files anyway, so I will just leave it like it is.
2020-06-20 11:53:09	`epochbot	alright.
2020-06-20 11:53:23	`epochbot	leave it up to the user to decide which dirs to make. :)
2020-06-20 11:54:06	`epochbot	hrm.
2020-06-20 11:54:11	styan	I think that it might be more common to forget to change the prefix than not have man3, being my reasoning :-)
2020-06-20 11:54:31	`epochbot	should it be /usr/local/share/man instead of /usr/local/man ?
2020-06-20 11:55:04	styan	Not on BSDs :-)
2020-06-20 11:55:05	⚡	`epochbot export MANDIR=share/man
2020-06-20 11:55:26	`epochbot	^ that worked
2020-06-20 11:55:45	`epochbot	another thing to toss into the readme? :)
2020-06-20 11:56:33	styan	I see no harm :-)
2020-06-20 12:04:36	styan	I wonder, can it be safely assumed that it is always "share/man" on Linux?
2020-06-20 12:05:15	styan	Anyway, there is another new section in the README.
2020-06-20 12:06:22	`epochbot	Iiiiiii dunno
2020-06-20 12:13:05	`epochbot	I think I'm going to have message handlers attempt to run a stream handler for the mime-type, but if that fails, it falls back to saving the file and launching and opener on that.
2020-06-20 12:13:16	`epochbot	an*
2020-06-20 12:13:54	`epochbot	hrm...
2020-06-20 12:14:12	⚡	`epochbot checks mime-type parameters
2020-06-20 12:14:18	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I finally figured out that pull request thingy
2020-06-20 12:20:49	`epochbot	would it make sense to use a parameter to indicate that the data is a "stream" and won't EOF by itself (under normal circumstances)
2020-06-20 12:23:33	`epochbot	I'm trying to see if I can find a list of common parameters
2020-06-20 12:26:15	`epochbot	that might be the wrong spot to put that info
2020-06-20 12:27:11	`epochbot	and gemini might be the wrong protocol for it, no matter how neat it might be to have client-cert authed tails of logs
2020-06-20 12:49:16	`epochbot	hrm..
2020-06-20 12:58:40	`epochbot	well, it can do weird stuff but not normal stuff anymore.
2020-06-20 12:58:56	`epochbot	hurray re... wtf is it called?
2020-06-20 12:58:59	`epochbot	refactoring
2020-06-20 13:24:30	`epochbot	k. close enough. push'd. going to bed.
2020-06-20 13:25:16	`epochbot	if you want to see it, start here and follow the subprocesses https://github.com/kkabrams/geminiclient/blob/master/gemini-handler
2020-06-20 13:39:08	`epochbot	what should the user:pass portion of a URI mean for gemini?
2020-06-20 13:39:25	`epochbot	could we use it as a selector for our client-side cert?
2020-06-20 13:39:35	`epochbot	based on fingerprint I guess
2020-06-20 13:39:40	`epochbot	I think ssh might do that type of thing
2020-06-20 13:41:12	`epochbot	hrm. looks like the fingerprint argument is for the fingerprint of the host.
2020-06-20 13:41:44	`epochbot	but we could use the user portion to select client-side cert anyway
2020-06-20 14:52:20	⚡	xq is back
2020-06-20 14:52:24	xq	now: reading PRs
2020-06-20 14:56:02		jeffpc has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-20 14:58:15	@tomasino	oh nice, deedum in the app store
2020-06-20 14:58:23	@tomasino	that's WAY easier to deal with
2020-06-20 14:58:26	xq	cool
2020-06-20 14:58:41	xq	i think i'll make Kristall 0.5 the "android release"
2020-06-20 14:58:45	xq	with a mobile build option
2020-06-20 14:58:52	@tomasino	oooo
2020-06-20 14:59:01	xq	test build already worked
2020-06-20 14:59:11	@tomasino	oh cool
2020-06-20 14:59:12	xq	you *can* surf gemini space on android
2020-06-20 14:59:17	xq	but it's not comfortable
2020-06-20 15:12:22	xfnw	lol
2020-06-20 15:12:47	xq	xfnw: there was a screenshot in here some days ago D
2020-06-20 15:12:53	xq	settings menu is completly unusable
2020-06-20 15:18:06		xfnw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 15:18:15	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 15:47:08	~tiwesdaeg	Getting closer
2020-06-20 15:47:23	~tiwesdaeg	I'm on my mid bikeride break
2020-06-20 16:14:10	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 16:46:45	~tiwesdaeg	I survived!
2020-06-20 16:49:17		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 16:52:28	xq	\/
2020-06-20 18:07:45	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 19:44:02	krixano	xq, I removed svg from the Windows build, but now I'm getting the same error for libQt5MultimediaWidgests.a
2020-06-20 19:44:03	krixano	> No rule to make target 'D:/a/kristall/Qt/5.12.9/msvc2017_64/lib/libQt5MultimediaWidgets.a', needed by 'release/kristall.exe'.  Stop.
2020-06-20 19:45:39	xq	hm
2020-06-20 19:45:45	xq	have you installed the multimedia package on windows?
2020-06-20 19:45:45		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-20 19:47:10	krixano	I was just using your build.yml file from before when it still had Windows, so that's all I'm working with, lol
2020-06-20 19:47:21	xq	ah
2020-06-20 19:47:25	xq	yeah i have no idea lol
2020-06-20 19:47:35	xq	the qtfetch thingy is weird
2020-06-20 19:49:35	xq	working with gh-actions is horrible
2020-06-20 19:49:42	xq	i'd love to have a dryrun feature
2020-06-20 19:50:00	krixano	Ok, I found the options for the qt install thing... it needs the arch to be set to mingw
2020-06-20 19:50:29	xq	ah
2020-06-20 19:50:29	xq	!
2020-06-20 19:50:37	xq	sounds about correct
2020-06-20 19:50:44	krixano	It's set to use msvc by default
2020-06-20 19:50:46	krixano	https://github.com/jurplel/install-qt-action
2020-06-20 19:52:04	xq	ah yeah, that explains a lot
2020-06-20 19:55:42	xq	okay, certificate import/export is now working
2020-06-20 19:55:51	xq	you can now share certificates between kristall and the outer world! :)
2020-06-20 19:56:22	@tomasino	it's a good day
2020-06-20 20:01:38	xq	tomorrow will be a better one even
2020-06-20 20:01:49	xq	there's one smaller job missing
2020-06-20 20:01:54	xq	(renaming groups)
2020-06-20 20:03:06	xq	then 0.3 is ready to release except for explanatory videos as well as a manual update :)
2020-06-20 20:03:47	xq	kinda looking forward to writing the manual
2020-06-20 20:04:01	xq	as it will be nice to see what new features have appeared :)
2020-06-20 20:05:06	xq	looking at the diff between 0.2 and 0.3 will be huge though :D
2020-06-20 20:05:18	krixano	I'm really annoyed. The qt install github action is failing for win32_mingw53, and it seems to be in an endless loop with the other mingw arch (win64_mingw73)
2020-06-20 20:05:38	xq	don't use win32, use win64
2020-06-20 20:05:50	xq	but it sounds like "classic windows c++ dev"
2020-06-20 20:05:52	xq	:(
2020-06-20 20:05:52	krixano	win64 goes in an endless loop
2020-06-20 20:06:04	xq	have to set up a clean windows machine to make a build env
2020-06-20 20:06:08	krixano	As in, the action never finishes
2020-06-20 20:06:19	xq	how long did you wait?
2020-06-20 20:06:38	krixano	Idk, but definitely past the time it took for both ubuntu versions to finish
2020-06-20 20:07:00	xq	ah
2020-06-20 20:07:07	xq	yeah, that sounds broken
2020-06-20 20:11:58	krixano	It gets stuck trying to download the qtxmlpatterns 7zip file
2020-06-20 20:14:11	krixano	I'm gonna try changing the mirror to see if that works better
2020-06-20 20:16:38		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 20:17:03	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 20:17:06	krixano	xq, what version of qt are you using?
2020-06-20 20:17:30	xq	personally? 5.15
2020-06-20 20:17:44	xq	kristall is kinda downgraded though and has checks in it for older versions
2020-06-20 20:17:54	xq	but i should probably define a "at least 5.X" version
2020-06-20 20:23:41	xq	akf
2020-06-20 20:23:42	krixano	GAAAAAH! I'm gonna get this stupid freaking thing working if it's the last thing I do before I die.
2020-06-20 20:23:43	xq	*afk
2020-06-20 20:23:46	@tomasino	do it
2020-06-20 20:25:02	krixano	I'm getting an "Error when parsing package information" from aqt, which is what the action uses
2020-06-20 20:25:30	krixano	aqtinstall: https://github.com/miurahr/aqtinstall/
2020-06-20 20:28:22	krixano	I'm just gonna point out that a lot of this is Linux people trying to build on Windows, lmao. Linux people like to try to do everything the "linux way" when working on Windows, which doesn't work, like, at all. Partially because the linux way is crappy, but anyways.
2020-06-20 20:29:18	krixano	It Almost Worked!!!!!
2020-06-20 20:29:26	krixano	One last error:
2020-06-20 20:29:36	krixano	>  g++.exe: error: C:/Program Files/Git/permissive-: No such file or directory
2020-06-20 20:34:49	krixano	Linux Building Rules: 1.) Never provide pre-build binaries to users, 2.) Require a million dependencies, 3.) Dynamic link everything so that everything breaks in the future when the needed versions are no longer provided, 4.) Require the user to use the terminal to type in a bunch of commands, 5.) Make sure your build doesn't always work
2020-06-20 20:45:35	krixano	xq: https://github.com/krixano/kristall/runs/791380800?check_suite_focus=true
2020-06-20 21:01:23		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-20 21:06:50	▬▬▶	thewe has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 21:07:10	thewe	Hello, just a couple of things I wanted to share with you this evening.
2020-06-20 21:08:03	thewe	Following on from yesterday with Prestel / videotex ........ I found out France's pre-internet was called Minitel.
2020-06-20 21:08:24	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 21:08:36	thewe	There is a somewhat interesting video about minitel here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOhK9bgQo8g
2020-06-20 21:08:55	thewe	It's worth watching to see that lovely old terminal device!
2020-06-20 21:10:12	thewe	For those of you who are interested in the IndieWeb, there is an indieweb event coming up next week. With an orientation / getting started session this coming Monday - https://events.indieweb.org/2020/06/indiewebcamp-west-2020-pre-camp-preparation-2RQdxVoc6jBX
2020-06-20 21:11:13	ℹ 	thewe is now known as thewetcrab
2020-06-20 21:11:47	thewetcrab	Ah that's better, don't know what happened there!
2020-06-20 21:34:59	paper	is typed-hole.org down? who is the owner?
2020-06-20 21:37:53	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 21:52:09	thewetcrab	paper I can access it via https://
2020-06-20 21:57:01		plugd has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-20 22:08:47	paper	it seems like only gemini is down there
2020-06-20 22:35:18		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-20 22:35:28	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 22:37:26	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-06-20 22:58:21		plugd has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-20 23:09:33		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-21 00:01:43	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 00:46:23		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-21 02:46:09		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-21 03:12:19	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 03:25:01	▬▬▶	quinnj has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 06:27:54		julienxx_ has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-21 06:28:04	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 06:28:05	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-21 07:49:25		quinnj has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-21 09:18:21	xq	<krixano> Partially because the linux way is crappy, but anyways.
2020-06-21 09:18:38	xq	the windows way is even more crappy, because you have to build your whole dev environment frm scratch
2020-06-21 09:19:47	xq	the /permissive thing is solvable
2020-06-21 09:20:17	xq	can you make a pr for that?
2020-06-21 11:10:12		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-21 11:10:17	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 11:45:50	▬▬▶	webchatter has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 11:46:00		webchatter has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-21 12:16:07	xq	hello people!
2020-06-21 12:21:33	xq	Kristall 0.3 is feature-complete!
2020-06-21 12:22:06	xq	next up: update the manual :)
2020-06-21 12:26:36	~tiwesdaeg	hello!
2020-06-21 12:26:44	~tiwesdaeg	I finally got netbsd to boot up
2020-06-21 12:26:51	~tiwesdaeg	had some weird UEFI issues
2020-06-21 12:27:18	~tiwesdaeg	kristall build fails, woo!
2020-06-21 12:37:54	~tiwesdaeg	xq: https://ttm.sh/QAT.txt
2020-06-21 12:45:25	xq	let's fix this!
2020-06-21 12:46:42	~tiwesdaeg	yes!
2020-06-21 12:47:03	~tiwesdaeg	so, I definitely have libiconv
2020-06-21 12:47:17	~tiwesdaeg	I'm guessing netbsd is being weird about something
2020-06-21 12:49:36	xq	okay, pushed a fix attempt
2020-06-21 12:50:11	~tiwesdaeg	pulling
2020-06-21 12:51:26	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QAp.txt
2020-06-21 12:51:31	~tiwesdaeg	slightly different?
2020-06-21 12:51:49	~tiwesdaeg	shorter at least ;P
2020-06-21 12:56:45	xq	hm, try again
2020-06-21 13:09:41	~tiwesdaeg	xq: https://ttm.sh/QAA.txt
2020-06-21 13:09:45	~tiwesdaeg	we made it a lot further
2020-06-21 13:09:59	xq	neat, it compiles! :D
2020-06-21 13:10:11	xq	is libiconv a separate library on netbsd?
2020-06-21 13:11:06	~tiwesdaeg	libiconv-1.14nb3 =   Character set conversion library
2020-06-21 13:11:12	~tiwesdaeg	it's a package
2020-06-21 13:11:21	xq	okay
2020-06-21 13:11:53	~tiwesdaeg	the = means I have it installed
2020-06-21 13:12:15	xq	can you add `LIBS += -liconv` to src/kristall.pro, roughly around line 17 and try again?
2020-06-21 13:12:20	~tiwesdaeg	I really should just install openbsd and freebsd as well to try and torture you
2020-06-21 13:12:28	xq	haha :D
2020-06-21 13:15:43	~tiwesdaeg	it compiles!
2020-06-21 13:15:47	xq	\o/
2020-06-21 13:15:52	~tiwesdaeg	make install fails though, thanks netbsd
2020-06-21 13:16:49	xq	let's see if i can just add -liconv on linux too
2020-06-21 13:17:17	~tiwesdaeg	/usr/pkg/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/
2020-06-21 13:17:28	~tiwesdaeg	that's where the icons should go
2020-06-21 13:18:36	~tiwesdaeg	is there a way to do "if os = netbsd, icon path = /usr/pkg/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/"
2020-06-21 13:18:51	~tiwesdaeg	in a Makefile that is
2020-06-21 13:18:55	xq	probably, but i'm no make expert
2020-06-21 13:20:26	~tiwesdaeg	I'm going to go read up on it
2020-06-21 13:20:34	xq	can you pull and try again? i added the iconv thingy
2020-06-21 13:20:43	xq	oh wait
2020-06-21 13:20:45	xq	my push is hanging
2020-06-21 13:26:01	~tiwesdaeg	standing by to stand by
2020-06-21 13:33:34	xq	done. had to reboot
2020-06-21 13:46:29	~tiwesdaeg	k
2020-06-21 13:46:57	~tiwesdaeg	running make
2020-06-21 13:51:02	~tiwesdaeg	builds fine
2020-06-21 13:51:14	xq	neat
2020-06-21 13:51:29	~tiwesdaeg	the install command is being weird though
2020-06-21 13:51:39	~tiwesdaeg	I changed the prefix and it's still throwing shade
2020-06-21 14:25:28		julienxx_ has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-21 14:25:40	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 14:25:40	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-21 14:50:30	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o xq] by ChanServ
2020-06-21 15:17:58		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-21 15:21:04	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 15:21:06	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-21 15:22:15	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: how goes 9til.de?
2020-06-21 15:26:13	@julienxx	it's starting to take shape :) I had to create a finger server and a client which was pretty fun!
2020-06-21 15:27:58	~tiwesdaeg	the gemini capsule looks great
2020-06-21 15:28:05	~tiwesdaeg	I erally like the ascii glenda
2020-06-21 15:29:14	@julienxx	I have to do some benchmarking regarding how many users I could host graphically, the VPS I used has 1GB of ram
2020-06-21 15:29:54	@julienxx	which might be a little small but I really don't know
2020-06-21 15:32:56	~tiwesdaeg	Hmm, yeah, I have no idea how much ram is needed to serve a drawterm connection
2020-06-21 15:32:56		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-21 15:33:43	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 15:33:44	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-21 15:35:11	~tiwesdaeg	Are you using 9front?
2020-06-21 15:35:18	@julienxx	yes
2020-06-21 15:35:50	~tiwesdaeg	OK, I'll install the 9front fork of drawterm
2020-06-21 15:36:01	~tiwesdaeg	You know, in anticipation
2020-06-21 15:36:21	@julienxx	haha I'll let you know once it's opened!
2020-06-21 15:39:26	~tiwesdaeg	cool, it works
2020-06-21 15:40:04	~tiwesdaeg	I've been playing with tomasino's ncat gemini server concept this morning
2020-06-21 15:40:21		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-21 15:48:39	Sario528	Has the astrobotony cert changed in the past ~24 hours?
2020-06-21 15:49:32	Sario528	AV-98 is giving me a warning about a possible man in the middle attack
2020-06-21 15:51:27	@xq	yes, it seems so
2020-06-21 15:51:31	@xq	Kristall also warned me
2020-06-21 15:53:39	~tiwesdaeg	the government is gathering our certs!
2020-06-21 15:54:23	@xq	*screams*
2020-06-21 15:56:28	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 15:56:28	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-21 15:56:41	~tiwesdaeg	irc fun!
2020-06-21 16:18:33	Sario528	krixano: Thanks for watering my plant :)
2020-06-21 16:24:10	@xq	i'm searching for the right word…
2020-06-21 16:24:25	@xq	when i visit a new server, it's in "untrusted" state
2020-06-21 16:24:35	@xq	when i then use TOFU, it switches to "trusted"
2020-06-21 16:24:48	@xq	but when the certificate expires, i want to have a good name for that state
2020-06-21 16:24:53	@xq	which right now is mistrusted
2020-06-21 16:25:06	@xq	which i don't really like. any recommendations about that state?
2020-06-21 16:25:19	makeworld	TOFU in general needs to be specced out more, Solderpunk and I have been talking about it on the mailing list
2020-06-21 16:25:36	makeworld	When the cert expires, it's just untrusted again, because anything is valid
2020-06-21 16:25:55	makeworld	Well unless you're using your public key only method?
2020-06-21 16:26:38	@xq	using the pubkey-only
2020-06-21 16:26:49	@xq	i wouldn't say it's the same level of trust as "untrusted" though
2020-06-21 16:26:55	@xq	as i now visit i server iÄ've seen before
2020-06-21 16:27:11	@xq	but something changed and i now have to see if that's a legitimate change or a MITM attack
2020-06-21 16:28:07	@xq	it's a situation i have to handle different
2020-06-21 16:28:29	@xq	and i'm just thinking about if "mistrusted" is the right state description
2020-06-21 16:41:26	@xq	makeworld: my current error message looks like this: https://mq32.de/public/ee984a8f0efe18c30c176034b61b6d271a7abf4b.png
2020-06-21 17:05:44	@xq	> Showing  with 5,826 additions and 836 deletions.
2020-06-21 17:05:56	@xq	didn't notice that i've done 5kLOC this week :D
2020-06-21 18:22:09	makeworld	Nice work!
2020-06-21 18:22:33	makeworld	xq: Have you been following the TOFU thread though?
2020-06-21 18:23:10	makeworld	I don't think just public key is the right way, I think hash of the SubjectPublicKeyInfo and expiry date is good
2020-06-21 18:23:37	makeworld	But that error message looks pretty good
2020-06-21 18:23:53	makeworld	The problem is yeah ofc that the user can't really know if it's legit or an MITM
2020-06-21 18:25:21	@xq	i just have followed it vaguely, but i'm aware of the problems
2020-06-21 18:26:00	@xq	i will read it when i have the time for it though and may adjust the implementation in Kristall
2020-06-21 18:26:36	@xq	but imho solderpunk should define the trust model better in the spec so people can rely switching clients without losing/gaining security on that basic level
2020-06-21 18:31:08	@xq	oh
2020-06-21 18:31:15	@xq	i just noticed that my todo-list isn't empty yet *screams*
2020-06-21 18:31:22	@xq	i totally forgot to implement the manual trust thingy
2020-06-21 18:31:34	makeworld	Yeah, that's his goal eventually
2020-06-21 18:31:42	makeworld	He wants to make a doc
2020-06-21 18:31:57	@xq	until then, it's the "it's something" implementation :)
2020-06-21 18:32:10	@xq	it's not perfect, but it's there and it provides a base for future implementations
2020-06-21 18:32:31	makeworld	Yeah for sure
2020-06-21 18:46:36	@xq	> The host you tried to visit is not trusted by Kristall. If you do trust this server, please add it to the list of trusted certificates!
2020-06-21 18:46:36	@xq	(which is currently not possible ☹)
2020-06-21 18:46:37	@xq	*rofl*
2020-06-21 18:46:42	@xq	i should change that probably for the release
2020-06-21 19:28:25	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 19:49:21	@xq	hey kensanata
2020-06-21 19:49:32	@xq	tomasino: who thought that writing a manual would take up half the afternoon?
2020-06-21 19:54:02	kensanata	Hah
2020-06-21 19:54:17	kensanata	Anybody who has written a manual before could have told you! :P
2020-06-21 19:54:24	@xq	haha
2020-06-21 19:54:25	@xq	sure
2020-06-21 19:54:28	kensanata	And it never ends...
2020-06-21 19:54:31	@xq	but hey, writing a manual is important too
2020-06-21 19:54:37	kensanata	I know, I know.
2020-06-21 19:54:40	@xq	[felix@denkplatte-v2 kristall]$ wc -w src/about/help.gemini
2020-06-21 19:54:40	@xq	3329 src/about/help.gemini
2020-06-21 19:54:43	@xq	huh, wow :D
2020-06-21 19:54:44	kensanata	I actually like doing it for small things.
2020-06-21 19:55:27	kensanata	But for my wiki software, for example, I've declared wiki bankrupcy, ie. I finally admitted that wiki is short for "can't find shit" and that's that.
2020-06-21 19:55:48	@xq	:D
2020-06-21 19:56:16	kensanata	https://oddmuse.org/wiki?action=index shows 2421 pages.
2020-06-21 19:56:18	kensanata	OMG.
2020-06-21 19:56:46	kensanata	I can say that "everything is documented". Then I hope they never try to find anything.
2020-06-21 20:02:25	kensanata	I'm still pondering my experiment with hosting a Wikipedia proxy and what it tells me about importing Wikipedia to Gemini. gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1965/2020-06-19_Wikipedia_via_Gemini I'm still struggling with it. I think it means it's too complicated a task because I don't have a clear goal myself.
2020-06-21 20:04:54	@xq	yeah, having a clear goal helps making good software
2020-06-21 20:05:01	@xq	that's why Kristall is already so nice
2020-06-21 20:05:11	@xq	i have a feature set in mind and i want to make that real
2020-06-21 20:07:23	kensanata	As I was struggling with the code, finding ever more edge cases and issues, I also decided that maybe I had done enough programming for a bit that I needed to do some actual writing instead.
2020-06-21 20:07:46	kensanata	So now, whenever I get the urge to code, I ask myself: why don't you write a blog post instead?
2020-06-21 20:08:40	@xq	hmm
2020-06-21 20:08:45	@xq	i can't answer that question for me
2020-06-21 20:08:57	@xq	i have a have-written blog post from start of last month
2020-06-21 20:09:04	@xq	returning now and then to continue writing it
2020-06-21 20:09:44	kensanata	Heh. My curse and my blessing is that the wiki doesn't know about drafts.
2020-06-21 20:10:02	@xq	yeah
2020-06-21 20:10:38	@xq	https://random-projects.net/blog/2020-06-10-resource-pooling-for-games.gemini
2020-06-21 20:10:44	@xq	started writing this on 27.05
2020-06-21 20:11:03	@xq	maybe i'm writing too long posts?
2020-06-21 20:12:21	@xq	okay, need to update the changelog, write one last chapter for the manual, then i'm ready to go
2020-06-21 20:15:15	kensanata	It sounds like an interesting blog post. Perhaps you could just post it up to "But enough backstory, let's jump right into application design and code!" and start working a part 2 that you can post as late as you want because what you posted stands on its own.
2020-06-21 20:16:03	makeworld	I'm working on Amfora's margins, anyone have a suggestion? It's hard to tell what will look good across different terminal sizes
2020-06-21 20:16:19	makeworld	Right now I have a left margin of width/9
2020-06-21 20:16:27	makeworld	Sorry, I mean /5
2020-06-21 20:16:39	kensanata	205
2020-06-21 20:16:43	kensanata	20%?
2020-06-21 20:16:51	kensanata	That sounds like a lot.
2020-06-21 20:17:23	makeworld	I guess 20% yeah
2020-06-21 20:17:30	kensanata	On this IRC client, for example, I have no margins, but the fill column is set to 65 and wrapped lines have a left margin of 4 spaces.
2020-06-21 20:18:58	@xq	kensanata: the backstory part is done, the actual tech content is 50% done
2020-06-21 20:19:26	kensanata	(I usually work with maximized windows with a big font on a laptop.)
2020-06-21 20:19:39	@xq	same here
2020-06-21 20:19:42	@xq	of 50/%0 split for me
2020-06-21 20:21:46	makeworld	15% seems better
2020-06-21 20:21:51	makeworld	But I should make it configurable
2020-06-21 20:23:32	@xq	configuration is always good
2020-06-21 20:27:56	kensanata	For my websites, I use something else: if the screen is wide, I limit the line length and center the text; if the screen is narrow, I use 1em as the margin or something small like that. To me, encoding the margin as fixed percentage makes no sense.
2020-06-21 20:28:13	kensanata	The goal, for me, is the optimal line length, not the text-to-margin ratio.
2020-06-21 20:30:13	kensanata	Anyway, that's the plan. My CSS is also not very good and so when I checked it just now, it didn't work as I expected it to.
2020-06-21 20:34:43	kensanata	I often check the list of sites in GUS and just visit some at random. Today I read gemini://kwiecien.us/
2020-06-21 20:44:34	@xq	oh wow
2020-06-21 20:44:40	@xq	22:44 already
2020-06-21 20:44:47	@xq	i should fetch something to eat
2020-06-21 20:46:09	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 20:46:29	kensanata	Yeah, and time to close down over here. CU tomorrow.
2020-06-21 20:46:30		links has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-21 20:47:10	@xq	tomasino, tiwesdaeg, krixano: Kristall 0.3 release candidate is ready, if you wanna run some tests before my release mail, go ahead
2020-06-21 20:47:18	@xq	cya kensanata
2020-06-21 20:48:36	kensanata	🚀🚀
2020-06-21 20:48:38		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-21 20:53:40	~tiwesdaeg	kk
2020-06-21 20:53:41	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 20:58:24	Sario528	So Deedum is nice
2020-06-21 21:00:20	@xq	but happy that i got it done this weekend :)
2020-06-21 21:03:38	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I'm still getting the weird qt issue with dropdown menus having no backgrounds, so you can hardly see the text
2020-06-21 21:04:16	~tiwesdaeg	except for the highlighted option, which moves as you move the mouse
2020-06-21 21:05:06	@xq	can you send me a screenshot?
2020-06-21 21:07:42	~tiwesdaeg	xq: https://ttm.sh/QAk.png
2020-06-21 21:07:51	~tiwesdaeg	I'm on manjaro right now
2020-06-21 21:07:52	@xq	oh shit
2020-06-21 21:08:06	@xq	does it happen with dark theme as well?
2020-06-21 21:08:41	~tiwesdaeg	yes
2020-06-21 21:08:54	~tiwesdaeg	it's not doing that on your end?
2020-06-21 21:09:05	~tiwesdaeg	our build environments should be pretty similar
2020-06-21 21:09:55	@xq	nope, it isn't
2020-06-21 21:09:58	@xq	yeah, build env yes
2020-06-21 21:10:03	@xq	but *definitly* not desktop env
2020-06-21 21:10:09	@xq	i use no desktop manager
2020-06-21 21:10:31	@xq	only i3 + random collection of utilities
2020-06-21 21:10:46	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-06-21 21:10:59	~tiwesdaeg	I can boot up something simple
2020-06-21 21:11:37	~tiwesdaeg	this is XFCE right now
2020-06-21 21:13:48	@xq	nah, can you pull again and try using "OS Default" theme?
2020-06-21 21:13:59	@xq	it will probably work *and* you have a dark theme
2020-06-21 21:17:15	@tomasino	woohoo
2020-06-21 21:18:03	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QA8.png
2020-06-21 21:18:18	@xq	yeah, can you chose "OS Default" instead of "light" or "dark"?
2020-06-21 21:18:21	@tomasino	heh, sexy overlap
2020-06-21 21:19:23	~tiwesdaeg	I did
2020-06-21 21:19:24	@tomasino	my OS default is dark, but it used light. I had to manually select dark
2020-06-21 21:19:42	~tiwesdaeg	I tried all options
2020-06-21 21:20:06	@xq	tiwesdaeg: it's broken with "OS Default" as well?
2020-06-21 21:20:11	~tiwesdaeg	mine is dark too
2020-06-21 21:20:15	~tiwesdaeg	correct
2020-06-21 21:20:19	@xq	weiiird
2020-06-21 21:20:30	@xq	i think you discovered a Qt bug
2020-06-21 21:20:35	@xq	do you have other Qt programs installed?
2020-06-21 21:21:02	~tiwesdaeg	if I select Light and click ok, when I go back to settings, OS Default is selected
2020-06-21 21:21:14	~tiwesdaeg	if I select dark, it shows Dark selected
2020-06-21 21:21:24	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm, let's see what we've got
2020-06-21 21:21:42	~tiwesdaeg	I'll install konsole
2020-06-21 21:21:52	~tiwesdaeg	I'm sure that's qt based ;P
2020-06-21 21:22:12	@xq	install cool-retro-term
2020-06-21 21:23:29	~tiwesdaeg	nope
2020-06-21 21:23:30		links has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-21 21:23:41	~tiwesdaeg	no issues with it, but the widgets look different
2020-06-21 21:23:51	@xq	huh, even with "OS Default"?
2020-06-21 21:23:57	@xq	can you send me a comparison screenshot?
2020-06-21 21:26:08	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QA7.png
2020-06-21 21:26:15	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QAJ.png
2020-06-21 21:26:49	@xq	interesting
2020-06-21 21:27:10	styan	xq: Here is a patch for your Makefile with a handfull of things cleaned up: https://ttm.sh/QAo.patch
2020-06-21 21:27:13	@xq	i wonder what is differnet bween our OS
2020-06-21 21:27:39	~tiwesdaeg	I'm pretty sure netbsd also had the same issue
2020-06-21 21:28:28	@xq	styan: thanks!
2020-06-21 21:28:52	styan	`?=' is portable, and will be in the next major POSIX standard, `install -D' is equivalent to `install -d' on *BSD, and `MAKEFLAGS' is usefull to pass along.
2020-06-21 21:28:59	styan	s/usefull/useful
2020-06-21 21:30:52	@xq	except for that weird transparency thing, is everything okay?
2020-06-21 21:31:07	styan	epoch and I talked about "install -D" vs "install -d" the other day, so it is still fresh in my mind. :-)
2020-06-21 21:33:26	styan	xq: Also, Kristall still compilers on my FreeBSD laptop.  And still core-dumps if it is compiled while LibreSSL is installed (not a Kristall problem, just a QT problem).
2020-06-21 21:33:46	@xq	oh
2020-06-21 21:33:52	@xq	thanks for the info, i completly missed that
2020-06-21 21:34:26	~tiwesdaeg	nothing else pops out right now
2020-06-21 21:35:07	@xq	yeah, i'll hit release then :D
2020-06-21 21:35:11	styan	QT does not support LibreSSL, and FreeBSD's port does not patch it like OpenBSD's port, so there is not much you can do about it.
2020-06-21 21:35:29	@xq	oh wait
2020-06-21 21:35:39	@xq	i need to write one chapter in the manual still :D
2020-06-21 21:35:42	makeworld	Why does QT care what you use for SSL?
2020-06-21 21:35:54	makeworld	I thought it's just for graphics?
2020-06-21 21:36:27	styan	qt5-network, it does a lot of stuff.
2020-06-21 21:36:48	@xq	Qt is a full replacement for the C++ standard lib
2020-06-21 21:36:50	@xq	it's not UI
2020-06-21 21:36:53	@xq	it's *everything*
2020-06-21 21:37:26	styan	So that xq does not have to write winsocks code, or whatever the equivalent is now.
2020-06-21 21:37:48	@xq	Network, I/O, Eventing, File Parsing, Widgets (That's what people associate with Qt), SSL/TLS, markdown rendering, video/audio playback, …
2020-06-21 21:37:52	⚡	styan knows nothing about Windows
2020-06-21 21:38:15	@xq	and all of that with first-class crossplatform support
2020-06-21 21:38:46	@tomasino	it's pretty neat
2020-06-21 21:38:54	@tomasino	first class $$$ too
2020-06-21 21:39:06	@tomasino	do you have it through a job already?
2020-06-21 21:39:15	@tomasino	i don't know how anyone could afford the license as an individual
2020-06-21 21:39:45	@xq	tomasino: Qt is either LGPL or $$$
2020-06-21 21:40:19	@xq	so perfect for open source, but you can do your closed source car software with qt as well
2020-06-21 21:40:25	@tomasino	ahha
2020-06-21 21:40:34	@xq	as you may have noticed: you build the app from source :D
2020-06-21 21:40:35	@tomasino	that makes sense. very nice
2020-06-21 21:40:38	@xq	so no licence needed there
2020-06-21 21:40:41	@xq	yeah, i really like that concept
2020-06-21 21:40:57	@xq	"open source is free, but if you want to be a stupid corporation, you can go closed source as well"
2020-06-21 21:41:03	@tomasino	 $459/month
2020-06-21 21:41:04	@tomasino	yeesh
2020-06-21 21:41:25	@xq	per seat?
2020-06-21 21:41:28	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-21 21:41:30	@tomasino	for commercial
2020-06-21 21:41:31	@xq	neat :D
2020-06-21 21:41:38	@xq	but yeah
2020-06-21 21:41:42	@xq	you get a lot for that money
2020-06-21 21:41:58	@tomasino	if you've got a commercial product on it and decent sales 
2020-06-21 21:42:05	@tomasino	i'm glad you can lgpl though
2020-06-21 21:42:52	@xq	yep
2020-06-21 21:43:00	@xq	i made some programs with Qt already
2020-06-21 21:43:04	@xq	and it's a joy working with it
2020-06-21 21:43:09	@tomasino	seems like it
2020-06-21 21:43:44	@tomasino	i don't do any app dev stuff at all. just CLI things & web things & web-adjecent
2020-06-21 21:44:10	@tomasino	i "have" done a few app things using web->native crap, but i hate the whole process
2020-06-21 21:44:19	@tomasino	and like, electron, but that's just awful
2020-06-21 21:45:41	@xq	yeah, it's horrible
2020-06-21 21:45:48	⚡	styan wonders about plan9port for cross-platform stuff
2020-06-21 21:45:50	@xq	Qt is big already :D
2020-06-21 21:45:53	@tomasino	heh
2020-06-21 21:45:56	@xq	plan9port?
2020-06-21 21:46:14	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 21:46:20		links has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-21 21:46:29	styan	Ports of plan9 software for many systems, acme, sam, troff, mk, etc.
2020-06-21 21:46:35	styan	Including Windows.
2020-06-21 21:47:42	@xq	oh neat
2020-06-21 21:47:43	yeti	maybe even one step deeper: https://yeti.tilde.institute/brain/llvm.html  maybe llvm can be the next better JVM
2020-06-21 21:47:49	@xq	plan9 has some really nice ideas
2020-06-21 21:48:10	yeti	binary compatible over several platforms
2020-06-21 21:48:20	@xq	yeti: zig community also philosophers about LLVM byte code for crossplatform applications
2020-06-21 21:48:46	⚡	yeti used UCSD decades ago and it was nice
2020-06-21 21:48:56	yeti	slow but portability was more important
2020-06-21 21:49:28	yeti	@university, @trs80, @c64 and @PCs I could run the same compilers
2020-06-21 21:49:44	yeti	the UI was torture
2020-06-21 21:49:53	yeti	but the rest was worth it
2020-06-21 21:50:34	@xq	oh wow
2020-06-21 21:50:36	@xq	crazy
2020-06-21 21:50:44	@xq	also: 0.3 is released \o/
2020-06-21 21:50:45	yeti	plan0 with a bearable UI (missing part!) on a VM might be todays answer
2020-06-21 21:50:50	yeti	plan9
2020-06-21 21:50:57	Sario528	xq: Woo!
2020-06-21 21:51:17	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 21:51:23	yeti	mooooment... isnt that Inferno?
2020-06-21 21:52:46	styan	I remember seeing a talk about hacking an Android phone to run Inferno instead of Java.
2020-06-21 21:53:10	yeti	ucsd had compilers with native backends too
2020-06-21 21:53:32	yeti	but in most cases portable binaries were more important than maximum speed
2020-06-21 21:53:56	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 21:54:04	makeworld	https://keepachangelog.com/en/1.0.0/
2020-06-21 21:54:10	yeti	a pcode based OS today probably would do JIT translation to native code and that wouldnt even matter
2020-06-21 21:54:14	makeworld	xq: Maybe Kristall should use that ^^
2020-06-21 21:54:33	makeworld	I'm using it for Amfora, it's nice for organization and for when  a user updates
2020-06-21 21:54:54	@xq	makeworld: I have a change log ;)
2020-06-21 21:55:14	@xq	it's built into kristall itself and it's the release notes
2020-06-21 21:55:22	@xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/releases/tag/V0.3
2020-06-21 21:55:23	@xq	check this out
2020-06-21 21:56:07	makeworld	Yeah, this is just a different way of doing it
2020-06-21 21:56:11	makeworld	It's nice to have it all in one file
2020-06-21 21:56:28	makeworld	You can add to file as you make commits, and then copy it over for the release
2020-06-21 21:56:30	@xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/blob/V0.3/src/about/updates.gemini
2020-06-21 21:56:37	makeworld	It's also a different way of organising
2020-06-21 21:56:42	makeworld	Oh nice
2020-06-21 21:56:52	@xq	it's just not in the main folder as it's built INTO Kristall
2020-06-21 21:56:56	makeworld	Can you view that in the app?
2020-06-21 21:56:59	makeworld	Oh okay
2020-06-21 21:57:02	makeworld	Cool
2020-06-21 21:57:05	@xq	https://mq32.de/public/d9bc0e540d353781d0593d49723167da9bcfc467.png
2020-06-21 21:57:08	makeworld	That works too :)
2020-06-21 21:57:22	@xq	i just link it in the main README.md
2020-06-21 21:57:49	@xq	the changelog is carefully hand-curated
2020-06-21 21:57:57	@xq	i semi-refresh it while coding
2020-06-21 21:58:24	@xq	and then i go through the whole git diff and add missing stuff or remove stuff that changes in the version itself
2020-06-21 21:58:56	@xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/compare/V0.2..V0.3
2020-06-21 21:59:00	@xq	this is a hell of a diff though
2020-06-21 22:03:17	@xq	okay, time for bed :)
2020-06-21 22:04:07	@xq	was a successfull day
2020-06-21 22:04:16	@xq	and the next release cycle of Kristall is going to be really fun :D
2020-06-21 22:11:53	makeworld	:)
2020-06-21 22:11:55	makeworld	Nice work!
2020-06-21 22:12:17	⚡	xq is infinitly proud atm
2020-06-21 22:12:36	@xq	it's my first project that has at least some usage outside of my computer
2020-06-21 22:12:53	@xq	and i also really like keeping compatibility and portability high
2020-06-21 22:15:27	makeworld	That's great! Gemini stuff has been the same for me mostly, first personal projects people use
2020-06-21 22:15:40	makeworld	And you should be proud, Kristall has so many features
2020-06-21 22:16:06	@xq	yeah, it's just …
2020-06-21 22:16:14	@xq	the feeling of "clicking a gemini:// link and your own program comes up"
2020-06-21 22:16:17	@xq	and it just works
2020-06-21 22:16:20	@xq	and you can surf with it
2020-06-21 22:16:24	@xq	it's a good feeling
2020-06-21 22:17:38	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 22:22:36	@xq	okay, have go
2020-06-21 22:22:40	@xq	until then
2020-06-21 22:29:42		xj9 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-21 22:46:15	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 22:51:48	makeworld	See ya!
2020-06-21 23:18:22	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 23:18:26		cmccabe has left #gemini
2020-06-21 23:19:38	CommunistWolf	hey there. is there a list of server implementations somewhere? I found a lisp one, but it's a tricky sort of term to search for :S
2020-06-21 23:20:40	@tomasino	just the list on the gemini.circumlunar.space page, i think
2020-06-21 23:20:43	@tomasino	in the software section
2020-06-21 23:23:13	CommunistWolf	ohh, is this going to be a thing where there's more info on the gemini page than the http one? ^^
2020-06-21 23:23:17	CommunistWolf	sneaky
2020-06-21 23:24:24	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-21 23:24:28	@tomasino	hehe
2020-06-21 23:26:04	CommunistWolf	it got me to compile asuka, so, mission accomplished I guess ;)
2020-06-21 23:26:51	CommunistWolf	hmm. agate, gemserve, pollux, lots of rust options
2020-06-21 23:28:33	@tomasino	kristall is Qt
2020-06-21 23:28:38	@tomasino	bollux is bash
2020-06-21 23:28:41	@tomasino	oh wait, servers
2020-06-21 23:28:43	@tomasino	sorry, not clients
2020-06-21 23:28:46	@tomasino	jetforce is python3
2020-06-21 23:29:36	CommunistWolf	servers, yeah. I'm going through a rust-y phase at the moment so focusing on those
2020-06-21 23:30:11	CommunistWolf	agate uses rustls, that's a win
2020-06-21 23:30:30	CommunistWolf	> downloads 100 dependencies
2020-06-21 23:38:05		xfnw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-21 23:38:06	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-21 23:38:47	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-21 23:38:59	CommunistWolf	ooh, I've tickled a bug I can fix, that's nice
2020-06-21 23:52:17	makeworld	Did mozz's cert change?
2020-06-21 23:53:40	makeworld	Looks like it did, unless I've been MITM'd lol
2020-06-21 23:57:27	yeti	I dont remember a cert change within the last week or so
2020-06-21 23:58:02	yeti	or what do you mean by mozz?
2020-06-21 23:58:11	yeti	the gemini->html gate?
2020-06-21 23:59:55	makeworld	I mean his website, mozz.us
2020-06-22 00:00:06	makeworld	It changed according to my client
2020-06-22 00:00:22	makeworld	gemini://mozz.us, that is
2020-06-22 00:01:04	yeti	I only used the gateway
2020-06-22 00:01:13	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-06-22 00:02:00	yeti	                    Timestamp : Jun 21 03:09:35.781 2020 GMT
2020-06-22 00:02:15	makeworld	?
2020-06-22 00:02:37	yeti	I think gemini://mozz.us indeed has a new cert since sunday
2020-06-22 00:02:53	yeti	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/mozz.us/?crt=1
2020-06-22 00:05:11	CommunistWolf	hmm, I'm defaulting to using my existing lets-encrypt cert. that's going to be annoying for TOFU, isn't it?
2020-06-22 00:05:19	makeworld	Not really
2020-06-22 00:05:33	makeworld	Lots of people do that
2020-06-22 00:05:44	makeworld	I mean, it will expire, but TOFU is designed to be okay with that
2020-06-22 00:05:49	CommunistWolf	gemini://ur.gs anyway , although it might be ipv6-only at the moment
2020-06-22 00:05:59	makeworld	We're just still working out the bugs, and the best way to handle expiry and key changes
2020-06-22 00:06:01	CommunistWolf	I guess that's not a terrible thing
2020-06-22 00:06:13	makeworld	I get connection refused on ur.gs
2020-06-22 00:06:25	makeworld	On IPv4
2020-06-22 00:07:22	CommunistWolf	hmm, I can tell it to bind to the wildcard
2020-06-22 00:08:40	CommunistWolf	but then I seem to get weird ssl errors on ipv4 only *shrug*
2020-06-22 00:12:47		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 00:14:20	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 00:38:28	makeworld	Alright, Amfora now has an option to "continue anyway" for TOFU
2020-06-22 00:39:01	makeworld	I'm worried I made it too easy, but I expect Amfora users to be somewhat knowledgeable, and I know that TOFU isn't perfect
2020-06-22 00:41:26	makeworld	Next on the roadmap is bookmarks, which will be nic
2020-06-22 00:41:29	makeworld	*nice
2020-06-22 01:28:28	krixano	xq, I have a feature request for Kristall - the ability to middle click a tab to close it.
2020-06-22 01:28:51	krixano	Also, middle clicking links to open them in new tab
2020-06-22 01:29:38	@tomasino	++
2020-06-22 01:40:56	krixano	solderpunk: Ok, so with the new streaming stuff going on, I feel like there should be a way to tell the client whether it needs to keep the connection open to stream or not. Because some clients might currently have a timeout (and might want a timeout for non-stream connections)
2020-06-22 01:42:33	@tomasino	i agree, but i don't think solderpunk is here right now
2020-06-22 01:50:58	makeworld	Yeah he's not online
2020-06-22 01:51:07	makeworld	And yes I agree
2020-06-22 01:51:19	makeworld	The problem is this is just more protocol extension
2020-06-22 01:53:53	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-22 01:53:56	@tomasino	also true
2020-06-22 02:00:32	krixano	Could it be done with status codes?
2020-06-22 02:00:40	krixano	Like, another 2x status code
2020-06-22 02:00:56	@tomasino	oh, yes... yes it could
2020-06-22 02:01:01	@tomasino	success as stream
2020-06-22 02:01:15	@tomasino	that would be really really easy
2020-06-22 02:25:20	krixano	Streaming idea I just thought of: Asciinemia streams over Gemini
2020-06-22 02:25:38	krixano	* Asciinema
2020-06-22 02:29:49	coleman	server-> client streaming seems fine. I think clients can decide to implement their own framing protocol for stuff like asciinema
2020-06-22 02:30:28	coleman	does gemini need to have an opinion on this at the protocol level?
2020-06-22 02:37:46	krixano	Idk what framing protocol mean, but what I meant was just viewing an asciinema stream from gemini. Of course, sending the stream to the server to then be served over gemini would be a different thing.
2020-06-22 02:40:05	krixano	Also, this can already be done with gemini. The only thing that I would add to the protocol is a simple "success as stream" status code.
2020-06-22 02:40:39	coleman	You're right, it can already be done
2020-06-22 02:40:49	krixano	Yeah, it can... sorta
2020-06-22 02:40:57	coleman	As long as the client knows how to render what is returned
2020-06-22 02:41:02	krixano	It depends on if the client has a timeout or not
2020-06-22 02:41:19	krixano	Having an extra status code tell the client it shouldn't be timing out.
2020-06-22 02:42:39	krixano	(for example, kristall currently doesn't work with the new streaming stuff at chat.mozz.us)
2020-06-22 02:42:49	krixano	(... because of the timeout thing it has)
2020-06-22 02:59:09	makeworld	A new status code is perfect!
2020-06-22 02:59:29	makeworld	I'll make a post on mailing list if no one else does
2020-06-22 03:00:29	makeworld	In a bit, though
2020-06-22 03:32:44	makeworld	Oh huh, I just noticed status code  21 is gone
2020-06-22 03:34:18	makeworld	Okay, sent the post
2020-06-22 03:48:05	makeworld	Did I just break GUS?
2020-06-22 03:48:11	makeworld	Yikes
2020-06-22 03:49:59	makeworld	I made a request with two AND NOTs
2020-06-22 03:53:08	kayw	...what
2020-06-22 03:53:46	makeworld	Nvm, it's back
2020-06-22 03:53:55	makeworld	But the server timed out for a bit
2020-06-22 03:54:44	makeworld	Ok, see y'all later!
2020-06-22 04:15:26	krixano	I don't see makeworld's mailing list email.
2020-06-22 04:24:29		coleman has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-22 04:25:31	makeworld	krixano: https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/001830.html
2020-06-22 04:25:38	makeworld	Night
2020-06-22 04:25:46	krixano	Goodnight!
2020-06-22 06:28:27		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-22 06:30:50	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 06:30:51	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-22 07:13:06	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 07:33:50	@xq	<krixano> (for example, kristall currently doesn't work with the new streaming stuff at chat.mozz.us)
2020-06-22 07:33:50	@xq	<krixano> (... because of the timeout thing it has)
2020-06-22 07:34:01	@xq	yes, Kristall can't handle streams atm, but that's not because of the timeout
2020-06-22 07:34:23	@xq	it's because it gathers the whole document, then displays it, as i've tried to explain to you before ;)
2020-06-22 07:34:31	krixano	Well.. it kinda is. You have a timeout if nothing has been sent for a while.
2020-06-22 07:34:36	@xq	yes
2020-06-22 07:34:39	@xq	but a stream is continous
2020-06-22 07:34:55	@xq	but as long as the data stream does not end, kristall does not display the resource to you
2020-06-22 07:35:12	krixano	A stream must be continuout?
2020-06-22 07:35:36	krixano	(as in, not stopping for periods of time)
2020-06-22 07:35:45	@xq	Kristall does not now the concept of "live stream"
2020-06-22 07:36:16	@xq	it receives a data stream from the server and and stores the data payload of that stream. when the server closes the connection, Kristall will display the resource to you
2020-06-22 07:36:29	krixano	Yeah, I already know thsat
2020-06-22 07:36:38	krixano	That's definitely a problem
2020-06-22 07:36:57	krixano	However, I was talking about what you were saying about continuous streams
2020-06-22 07:37:59	@xq	well, the timeout thing is something completly different and i will apply that also on streams
2020-06-22 07:38:12	@xq	because it's reasonable to assume the server stopped stream after a certain amount of "no bytes received"
2020-06-22 07:38:57	krixano	I disagree
2020-06-22 07:39:11	krixano	What about chat's where nobody's said anything for a long time?
2020-06-22 07:39:14	@xq	that's okay ;)
2020-06-22 07:39:41	@xq	i have those in mind and i make the stream timeouting thing configurable as soon as i have the option to differentiate streams and file data
2020-06-22 07:39:53	krixano	Ok, fine
2020-06-22 07:40:36	@xq	implementing a data stream is sadly not that easy in kristall
2020-06-22 07:41:38	krixano	Solderpunk's on a break till 25th I think, so we won't have any decisions about the "success as stream" status code I proposed until after then
2020-06-22 07:42:15	@xq	yeah
2020-06-22 07:42:46	@xq	next release cycle will be focused on "nice look&feel", no new technical advancements
2020-06-22 07:44:51	▬▬▶	snoe has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 07:47:12	snoe	Hey in my flutter client, I'm a fair bit removed from sockets, but I'm running into three types of behaviors on different servers.  1. as per protocol, I send the request uri followed by crlf and get back a response, then the connection closes. 2
2020-06-22 07:48:00	snoe	2. I send the request, get back the response, but the connection does not close - UNLESS I shutdown the write side of the socket.
2020-06-22 07:48:33	snoe	3. send the request, get the response, but the connection never closes and I need to timeout.
2020-06-22 07:49:22	@xq	snoe: those servers seem to close only the TLS connection, not the socket itself
2020-06-22 07:50:42	snoe	examples: 1. gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ 2. gemini://gus.guru/ 3.gemini://tilde.black
2020-06-22 07:52:07	snoe	@xq interesting - I 'm not sure I can detect that. Do you think that's the case for 2 and 3?
2020-06-22 08:10:22	@xq	yeah
2020-06-22 08:10:33	@xq	i could detect it when i also listened to the TLS connection breakdown
2020-06-22 08:12:12	snoe	darn, I can't find anywhere in dart to poke at that :(  are those servers out of spec?
2020-06-22 08:13:44	@xq	not sure
2020-06-22 08:15:08	snoe	yeah... other than the handshake section, and the bit about the gopher `.` it doesn't say a server MUST close the connection.
2020-06-22 08:15:48	snoe	and whether it means socket or tls layer is unclear
2020-06-22 08:15:48	@xq	gemini implies that the server needs to close the connection
2020-06-22 08:15:53	@xq	that's "end of file" condition
2020-06-22 08:16:22	@xq	huh… i just had the wildest idea :D
2020-06-22 08:16:30	snoe	yeah, that's what I've been assuming.
2020-06-22 08:16:33	@xq	it's not a hard feature, but a useful one for Kristall
2020-06-22 08:16:38	@xq	Offline Pages
2020-06-22 08:16:48	@xq	So, caching, but opt-in and hand-made
2020-06-22 08:17:00	@xq	allows you to store stuff "for later, without internet"
2020-06-22 08:17:36	krixano	That's a good feature.
2020-06-22 08:17:41	snoe	safari has a reading list, it would be nice
2020-06-22 08:17:43	krixano	Browsers *used* to have that feature
2020-06-22 08:17:56	@xq	yeah
2020-06-22 08:17:58	krixano	But I don't think many of them do anymore
2020-06-22 08:18:16	@xq	i just noticed that i should not use my mobile connection to download the spec again and again
2020-06-22 08:18:44	snoe	thanks for your help xq.
2020-06-22 08:18:53	@xq	you're welcome
2020-06-22 08:19:09	@xq	yay, Kristall is finally up-to-spec again *grin*
2020-06-22 08:19:24	@xq	solderpunk has merged the new certificate response codes
2020-06-22 08:20:01	@xq	snoe: 1.1 says, that in order to handle a connection, you need to wait for "connection close"
2020-06-22 08:20:08	@xq	and then handle the response
2020-06-22 08:23:07	@xq	so streaming is technically out-of-spec :D
2020-06-22 08:43:45	paper	xq: there was a proposal about something like sitemap which lists all files on the server with their dates of modification and sizes, maybe it could be helpful for offline pages
2020-06-22 08:48:58	krixano	Streaming isn't technically out of spec if eventually the stream ends, right?
2020-06-22 08:50:33	@xq	well, it depends
2020-06-22 08:50:43	@xq	if you do a live radio, the stream never ends
2020-06-22 08:50:50	@xq	unless technical problems
2020-06-22 08:50:56	styan	Heat-death based connection termination?
2020-06-22 08:51:01	@xq	:D
2020-06-22 08:51:09	@xq	also, the spec says that you should read the content, then display it :D
2020-06-22 08:51:15	⚡	xq is -pedantic
2020-06-22 08:51:40	styan	If it just says "read" it does not say how much. :-)
2020-06-22 08:52:33	@xq	well, read is "until server closes connection"
2020-06-22 08:52:44	krixano	Yeah, but we can fix up and change the spec if solderpunk decides on allowing streaming
2020-06-22 08:52:52	@xq	yeah, sure :D
2020-06-22 08:53:27	@xq	i still have no idea though how to solve streaming in a nice way for Kristall
2020-06-22 08:54:02	krixano	Actually, solderpunk is the one that came up with the streamed chat idea, so I would bet that he would allow it
2020-06-22 08:54:53	styan	I do not remember if you were online yesterday when I was talking about my very streamy new gemini fetcher.
2020-06-22 08:55:35	@xq	:D
2020-06-22 08:55:45	@xq	streaming was afaik actually tomasinos idea here
2020-06-22 08:55:59	@xq	and both me and solderpunk hoppend on the train quickly
2020-06-22 08:56:12	krixano	Yes, *streaming* was tomasino's idea. But solderpunk came up with streaming *chatroom* in his gemini applications post
2020-06-22 08:56:45	krixano	The exact same implementation used by chat.mozz.us it seems
2020-06-22 08:57:08	styan	I made a thing that pipes the response to a program selected by the returned mime-type, now I have html pages opening in lynx :-)
2020-06-22 08:57:10	⚡	krixano is also pedantic
2020-06-22 08:57:15	krixano	:D
2020-06-22 08:58:04	@xq	krixano: not sure who came up with the chat idea anymore, it originated in the IRC here as well, pretty sure :D
2020-06-22 08:58:25	@xq	also, i have to test out chat.mozz.us
2020-06-22 08:58:29	krixano	Well, idk then, lol. The first one who I seen mentioning it was solderpunk
2020-06-22 08:59:46	@xq	also isn't really relevant :D
2020-06-22 09:00:17	@xq	i have to patch up Kristall to allow streaming as i love the idea
2020-06-22 09:00:35	krixano	You're right, it's not. I wasn't the one that brought up my mistake though
2020-06-22 09:00:55	styan	I had a silly idea about having a program that opens gemini links with my gemini-pipe(1), which opens gemini files in that program, creating a chaing of processes that are essentially your back button...
2020-06-22 09:02:10	krixano	The point... solderpunk seems to have supported the streaming chatroom idea in his gemini applications post, which means that he it would make sense if he supports changes to the spec to clear up this being allowed.
2020-06-22 09:07:35	@xq	yeah
2020-06-22 09:09:42	styan	I find the fact that the status code sub-sub-sections have the same number as the status code they are describing more amusing than I probably should.
2020-06-22 09:12:20	⚡	kensanata rereads https://www.sitemaps.org/protocol.html after many years of ignoring it.
2020-06-22 09:12:31	kensanata	styan: hehe
2020-06-22 09:18:29	paper	maybe an unpopular opinon, but I think streaming isn't a good idea, we should think more about some problems with the existing gemini protocol. For example I think it would be awesome if the protocol supported specifying the language.
2020-06-22 09:19:14	paper	The web chooses a language currently based on cookies, manual preference or geoIP which is bad and usually not great.
2020-06-22 09:19:17	@xq	i don't think the protocol itself should specify the language
2020-06-22 09:19:22	@xq	this is covered via mime types
2020-06-22 09:19:38	@xq	but: "what language does a compressed zip file have?"
2020-06-22 09:19:42	paper	language via mime types? that's news to me
2020-06-22 09:19:57	@xq	20 text/gemini; lang=de
2020-06-22 09:20:14	@xq	would be a response for a german, utf-8 typed gemini file
2020-06-22 09:20:52	@xq	see specification.gmi 5.2 Parameters
2020-06-22 09:20:58	paper	I was that a request could specify a language they want and the server would return it or the fallback language - for multilang
2020-06-22 09:21:12	@xq	ah, this way
2020-06-22 09:21:22	@xq	i don't think that's a good idea
2020-06-22 09:21:23	paper	sites, but I don't see a way to implement it well
2020-06-22 09:21:29	@xq	it's also covered already ;)
2020-06-22 09:21:47	styan	I have not heard of `etc/mailcap', and I do not think that I have ever seen MIME expanded before.  I am learning new things reading this spec. :-)
2020-06-22 09:21:48	@xq	gemini://host.name/de/ vs gemini://host.name/es/ gemini://host.name/en/
2020-06-22 09:22:19	paper	xq: is this standard?
2020-06-22 09:22:27	@xq	it's common
2020-06-22 09:22:36	@xq	a lot of web pages do this and it's totally viable for gemini as well
2020-06-22 09:22:38	paper	hmm, I guess this is much better
2020-06-22 09:22:52	@xq	it's simple, it's obvious and it does not need protocol changes ):
2020-06-22 09:28:13	paper	there has to be a better way, maybe you live in an english speaking country, but I find it really weird when sites default to Turkmen, because our ISP has a Turkmenistan IP for some reason.
2020-06-22 09:29:17	krixano	The only other way would be clients adding the language to the request in some way
2020-06-22 09:29:43	CommunistWolf	I was thinking about streams a little last night because of toot radio - the ultimate stream
2020-06-22 09:29:49	paper	and that would change the request formattoo much
2020-06-22 09:30:23	styan	Magic fragment?  `gemini://some.thing/path/#en'
2020-06-22 09:30:24	krixano	I mean, technically we could just have clients automatically use "domain/language/..." as the url.
2020-06-22 09:30:56	krixano	The only problem with that is everybody has to standardize on that url format
2020-06-22 09:31:26	krixano	(unless, perhaps, there's a way to detect that the url doesn't exist, and to go back to the url without the "/language" part)
2020-06-22 09:31:35	paper	I like that, but can we get us to break every existing gemini link?
2020-06-22 09:32:04	paper	krixano: that would be a legacy workaround, I don't like it :(
2020-06-22 09:36:58	kensanata	I think there is no solution to this on the Gemini protocol level.
2020-06-22 09:37:04	krixano	> and I do not think that I have ever seen MIME expanded before.
2020-06-22 09:37:19	kensanata	The HTTP protocol solves this, but Solderpunk really doesn't want that kind of extensibility.
2020-06-22 09:37:21	krixano	I think the lang thing was actually in an rfc before, so it's not a new thing
2020-06-22 09:37:24	styan	MIME: Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions
2020-06-22 09:38:02	krixano	Oh, did you mean expanded as in... the words the acronym represents?
2020-06-22 09:38:09	styan	Yes.
2020-06-22 09:38:31	styan	I think that I have only ever seen it as MIME.
2020-06-22 09:38:58	kensanata	What we could do is use parameters. In an URL, every segment can have parameters. So you could say: gemini://alexschroeder.ch/Test;lang=de to request that "Test" be delivered with "lang=de" in mind. All we would have to agree to is to use "lang" as the parameter name.
2020-06-22 09:39:36	▬▬▶	gernot has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 09:39:53	kensanata	And I already use these for Titan. titan://alexschroeder.ch/Test;size=5;mime=text/plain;token=hello allows me to write five bytes to the Test page.
2020-06-22 09:40:39	krixano	I thought we were using "?" for this? or is this a different thing?
2020-06-22 09:41:03	kensanata	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3.3
2020-06-22 09:41:28	kensanata	krixano: the ? says that you want to append query parameters. Without a question mark, it's just parameters
2020-06-22 09:41:59	krixano	Oh. Do all gemini servers handle this correctly atm?
2020-06-22 09:41:59	kensanata	From the RFC: «For example, one URI producer might use a segment such as "name;v=1.1" to indicate a reference to version 1.1 of "name", whereas another might use a segment such as "name,1.1" to indicate the same.»
2020-06-22 09:42:15	kensanata	krixano: It's not in the Gemini spec anywhere.
2020-06-22 09:42:34	kensanata	krixano: But URIs could be used this way without breaking the spec.
2020-06-22 09:43:06	krixano	But if we're going to have clients automatically append a ";lang=..." thing, then we have to make sure the server supports that, right?
2020-06-22 09:43:28	kensanata	Sure. In theory, a conforming server that parses URIs correctly will already do so.
2020-06-22 09:43:45	kensanata	One "correct" response, of course, would be that "Test;lang=de" is not available.
2020-06-22 09:44:28	kensanata	And indeed, my site will simply give you an empty page, because it doesn't exist.
2020-06-22 09:44:36	kensanata	Eventhough Test exists...
2020-06-22 09:45:27	krixano	So, I find this interesting, because from what I've seen, most of the web uses query parameters for things that should probably use regular parameters. Like, I've never seen semicolon-delemited parameters in URLs before I don't think
2020-06-22 09:45:58	kensanata	Me neither. I think it was Sean who pointed me at this part of the URI RFC.
2020-06-22 09:46:41	styan	I think that I accidentally reinvented mailcap(4) when I made gemini-pipe(1)...
2020-06-22 09:47:09	krixano	Who cares, the wheel was "reinvented" multiple times.
2020-06-22 09:47:10	kensanata	I think the idea was that you want to provide meta info for every path segment, so gemini://campaignwiki.org/wiki;region=europe/Dragons_of_Doom;lang=fr would be a possibility.
2020-06-22 09:47:21	kensanata	styan: haha
2020-06-22 09:47:36	kensanata	styan: I bet mailcap also has a bout two dozen extra features nobody knows about.
2020-06-22 09:47:49	styan	I do not actually care, but I thought that it was amusing. :-)
2020-06-22 09:47:50	krixano	(I mean to say, like, don't be afraid to "reinvent the whell")
2020-06-22 09:48:01	krixano	* wheel
2020-06-22 09:48:03	kensanata	styan: like different options for different verbs one might apply to a resource, and a default action, just to name two things I half remember.
2020-06-22 09:48:04	krixano	:)
2020-06-22 09:48:41	kensanata	Time to get some lunch going over here... happy IRC to all y'alls.
2020-06-22 09:48:56	styan	I still like my version more, it is mk(1) inspired :-)
2020-06-22 09:55:29	jan6	paper: incorrect, there are http headers for that, the browser tells the server what languages it accepts, and server tries to find appropriate version, in the order specified by client, https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Accept-Language
2020-06-22 09:55:44	jan6	if the people making pages are lazy, doesn't mean that's how it has to be ;P
2020-06-22 09:58:46	styan	I think that it would be fun if a site had a /en, /de, /fr, etc.  And someone went to /page instead of /en/page, that it would run a CGI script that pickes a random translation for each line.
2020-06-22 09:59:18	styan	s/pickes/picks/
2020-06-22 09:59:57	jan6	yeah, the /lang/ directories are pretty standard, I think, in the sense that everyone gets what they are, and are easy to set up
2020-06-22 09:59:59	krixano	What was paper incorrect about?
2020-06-22 10:00:09	jan6	the http language selection part
2020-06-22 10:00:28	jan6	no need to cookies, or geoip
2020-06-22 10:00:55	⚡	jan6 eats all the cookies
2020-06-22 10:00:55	krixano	Ah, ok
2020-06-22 10:01:17	jan6	the semicolon url params are weird, I've not seen them either, which is interesting
2020-06-22 10:01:33	jan6	only place I've seen them used is the data: uri
2020-06-22 10:01:51	krixano	Yeah, query parameters do almost the same thing, so I would bet everyone just started using those instead
2020-06-22 10:02:21	jan6	interesting is that it seems pretty much a forgotten feature
2020-06-22 10:02:40	jan6	wouldn't be surprised if several uri parsers didn't bother to implement it
2020-06-22 10:03:18	krixano	Like, I see google using query parameters for things that aren't necessarily queries. Like I've seen google use them for versioning for example.
2020-06-22 10:03:34	jan6	yeah
2020-06-22 10:03:36	jan6	hmmm
2020-06-22 10:03:40	jan6	could you use both at the same time?
2020-06-22 10:04:21	krixano	I would think so, but idk. I was actually wondering about what the correct order would be, if it's not fluid ordering. Would query params always go after regular params?
2020-06-22 10:04:35	jan6	like gemini://my.site/cool_page;revision=1.0?format=markdown
2020-06-22 10:05:17	styan	The grammer at the end does not even mention thoes, it just allows semicolons in the path, query, and fragment as a "sub-delim".
2020-06-22 10:05:25	styan	s/thoes/those
2020-06-22 10:05:28	jan6	huh
2020-06-22 10:05:42	jan6	now that is a bit interesting
2020-06-22 10:06:07	styan	So if you just code to the grammer, it would just be part of the part.
2020-06-22 10:06:10	@xq	<kensanata> krixano: the ? says that you want to append query parameters. Without a question mark, it's just parameters
2020-06-22 10:06:28	jan6	as that would also let make stuff like an extra spec of using fragment sections as "highlight this area" or "focus on 3th line of section 2"
2020-06-22 10:06:36	styan	s/part\./path./
2020-06-22 10:06:36	@xq	that's not technically true. `gemini://host.name/foo;lang=de` is a URL with a path of `foo;lang=de`
2020-06-22 10:06:50	styan	I am just made of typos right now.
2020-06-22 10:06:59	krixano	That's confusing me now....
2020-06-22 10:07:16	jan6	lots of specs can be confusing ;P
2020-06-22 10:07:38	@xq	krixano: path of a url starts after either the : or the /, depending oon your use of host name or not
2020-06-22 10:07:46	@xq	if you use a host name, all paths must be absolute (starting with a /)
2020-06-22 10:07:47	krixano	According to this rfc linked, ";" and "=" are reserved characters used to delimit parameters and parameter values
2020-06-22 10:07:57	@xq	krixano: correct, but only in query values
2020-06-22 10:08:42	krixano	It does not specify that requirement in the rfc I don't think...
2020-06-22 10:09:16	@xq	it does
2020-06-22 10:09:19	styan	We need something for URLs, what Gemini is to HTML. :-)
2020-06-22 10:09:30	krixano	> URI producing applications
2020-06-22 10:09:30	krixano	   often use the reserved characters allowed in a segment to delimit
2020-06-22 10:09:30	krixano	   scheme-specific or dereference-handler-specific subcomponents.  For
2020-06-22 10:09:30	krixano	   example, the semicolon (";") and equals ("=") reserved characters are
2020-06-22 10:09:30	krixano	   often used to delimit parameters and parameter values applicable to
2020-06-22 10:09:31	krixano	   that segment.
2020-06-22 10:09:33	@xq	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#appendix-A
2020-06-22 10:10:31	@xq	or maybe i'm reading it wrong
2020-06-22 10:10:56	@xq	but i assume that solderpunk will define the URL scheme for gemini to not allow parameters on path segments
2020-06-22 10:12:19	jan6	interesting I've never seen protocol:/ format, with a single slash
2020-06-22 10:12:39	@xq	you did!
2020-06-22 10:12:43	@xq	file:/foo/bar
2020-06-22 10:12:55	paper	I am back
2020-06-22 10:13:00	paper	jan6, you are right
2020-06-22 10:13:14	@xq	but file:/ is afaik equivalent to using an empty host
2020-06-22 10:13:18	@xq	file:///foo/bar
2020-06-22 10:13:22	@xq	which is even more confusing
2020-06-22 10:13:26	jan6	it's always used as file:/// fro what I've seen
2020-06-22 10:13:47	jan6	I guess file:/relative/path would make sense, but never seen it used
2020-06-22 10:13:55	krixano	Ok, so it looks like it's saying ";" are reserved for segments, they're in the sub-delims part. But I don't think this means "blah;ksahdfkh" is a directory. I guess I just realized I misread what you meant by "path" though
2020-06-22 10:13:57		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-22 10:14:22	jan6	firefox only seems to accept file:/// with three slashes and no less, for example
2020-06-22 10:14:32	paper	it has to be file://, right? else it is not recognised as a protocol
2020-06-22 10:14:48	krixano	I believe that third slash is for root directory
2020-06-22 10:14:48	@xq	nah, you can also use doi:34324 or mailto:felix@
2020-06-22 10:14:54	paper	I find it amusing that the last slash is for root
2020-06-22 10:14:57	@xq	the third slash is actually root
2020-06-22 10:15:00	jan6	file is the protocol, // means it's absolute path
2020-06-22 10:15:07	@xq	file://C:/foo/bar
2020-06-22 10:15:31	paper	no, // seaparates the protocol - like https://xxx or gemini://xxx
2020-06-22 10:15:38	paper	the last slash is a path
2020-06-22 10:16:20	paper	mailto seems to be a different format?
2020-06-22 10:16:33	@xq	nah, it's all URI
2020-06-22 10:16:42	@xq	[scheme=gemini]://[authority][path=/path]
2020-06-22 10:16:45	krixano	Idk, I always found mailto a bit weird, because it's different from literally every other url I've seen
2020-06-22 10:16:54	krixano	Since it doesn't have slashes after scheme
2020-06-22 10:16:55	@xq	[scheme=mailto]:[path=felix@adiasd]
2020-06-22 10:17:02	jan6	: is the protocol separator, paper
2020-06-22 10:17:09	@xq	[scheme=file]://[authority=][path=/foo/bar]
2020-06-22 10:17:17	krixano	What are the two slashes for then?
2020-06-22 10:17:23	@xq	the double slashes introduce authority
2020-06-22 10:17:29	@xq	(so user,host,port)
2020-06-22 10:17:42	jan6	I didn't know it either before looking at that spec, what the // meant
2020-06-22 10:18:01	@xq	scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ] [ "#" fragment ]
2020-06-22 10:18:16	krixano	And authority is different from what you link to with mailto?
2020-06-22 10:18:21	@xq	where hier-part is either [ "//" authority path-abempty ] or any other kind of path
2020-06-22 10:18:30	@xq	mailto contains only a path
2020-06-22 10:18:30	paper	wow, I thought the URI spec was nice and simple, but it seems complex and different in each case
2020-06-22 10:18:38	jan6	interesting is that the hier-part itself doesn't seem to include the rest of the URL, so it's a weird way to put it
2020-06-22 10:18:42	@xq	URI spec is quite reasonable actually
2020-06-22 10:18:57	krixano	I thought emails were just user@authority?
2020-06-22 10:19:02	jan6	like, what, http://?query#fragment would be legal?
2020-06-22 10:19:02	@xq	that's an email
2020-06-22 10:19:09	@xq	a URI for email is "mailto:user@authority"
2020-06-22 10:19:13	@xq	where "user@authority" IS the path
2020-06-22 10:19:20	@xq	and "mailto:" is the scheme
2020-06-22 10:19:29	krixano	Ok, but if it's using an authority, then why isn't there the two slashes
2020-06-22 10:19:41	@xq	it's nt...
2020-06-22 10:19:50	krixano	You can also use the user@ for things that use two slashes, like ftp
2020-06-22 10:19:54	@xq	yeah
2020-06-22 10:20:03	@xq	that's the authority user spec
2020-06-22 10:20:15	jan6	you can also use it for http
2020-06-22 10:20:30	krixano	So wait....
2020-06-22 10:20:30	jan6	you can do http://user:password@website.com
2020-06-22 10:20:40	jan6	and it's totally fine
2020-06-22 10:21:20	krixano	What you're saying is, with mailto, the full email is a path, but with something like ftp, the user isn't with the path exactly, it's more like the which user is doing the request? idk, lol...
2020-06-22 10:21:50	jan6	pretty sure you can still ftp with user in the url
2020-06-22 10:22:06	jan6	it's just not required for the user to be included
2020-06-22 10:22:16	jan6	but since it's needed, it'd be prompted if missing
2020-06-22 10:22:18	krixano	I didn't say you couldn't?
2020-06-22 10:22:32	login	you can use basic auth over https ;)
2020-06-22 10:22:59	krixano	Am I missing something here? Why do people keep repeating things I already know
2020-06-22 10:23:16	login	i didn't read
2020-06-22 10:24:12	jan6	maybe you word them in a way that's understood by the people as if you were asking something you already know?
2020-06-22 10:24:34	login	here, "the people" is only a sample size of 1 or maybe 2
2020-06-22 10:24:39	login	so it could just be the crowd
2020-06-22 10:24:42	login	(of 2)
2020-06-22 10:25:07	krixano	I have no idea how you thought I was asking about http users, because I don't even mention that, lmao
2020-06-22 10:25:46	login	i only saw http://user:password@website.com
2020-06-22 10:25:52	jan6	nobody thought that, I don't think, lol
2020-06-22 10:26:12	jan6	I was just putting an example that it's not mail-specific
2020-06-22 10:26:31	krixano	I didn't suggest it was mail-specific though
2020-06-22 10:27:21	jan6	yeah
2020-06-22 10:27:26	jan6	miscommunication
2020-06-22 10:27:50	krixano	Let me further clarify, with mailto, you're sending *to* the user provided.... the user is part of the email/path. Therefore no double slashes. But with url's, there's a double slash because the user is not part of the path, it's just used to specify who is doing the request. What I was asking is if this is correct.
2020-06-22 10:30:24	krixano	So... "mailto:user@domain" - user@domain is the path, but "ftp://user@domain" - user is authentication, not part of path. xq, is this right or wrong?
2020-06-22 10:33:08	jan6	I guess treating it as authentication or not isn't part of url, it's probably just how that protocol treats it...
2020-06-22 10:34:41	krixano	I'm now wondering about "file:" vs. "file://" though, because if double slash is supposed to be for authorities, "file://" doesn't use an authority, does it?
2020-06-22 10:36:59	jan6	maybe it'd be local system authority?
2020-06-22 10:37:18	styan	I think that (pedantically) it is only valid as `file:relative/path//components' and `file:/absolute/path//components'
2020-06-22 10:37:18	krixano	Btw, I was confused about you mentioning to me that user can be used with ftp, because I literally say the exact same thing before you said that.
2020-06-22 10:37:20	jan6	or there's some forgotten spec everyone's forgotten
2020-06-22 10:39:52	styan	Nope, nevermind, hostnames can be empty. s/.*//
2020-06-22 10:40:40	krixano	Yep. Just tried doing "file://localhost/"
2020-06-22 10:40:54	krixano	It worked, but redirected/changed url to "file:///"
2020-06-22 10:42:00	⚡	styan wants `9p://host.name/file' now
2020-06-22 10:42:14	krixano	rfc 8089 defines file URI scheme btw
2020-06-22 10:43:16	krixano	the file URI is of the form "file://host/path"
2020-06-22 10:44:09	krixano	Which means it can be used for network locations...
2020-06-22 10:45:44	krixano	The wiki on it says "no specific file-retrieval protocol is specified"
2020-06-22 10:46:20	jan6	heh
2020-06-22 10:46:52	jan6	gemini-based file transfers and file managers when? ;P
2020-06-22 10:49:36	krixano	rfc 8089 is fairly new, from 2017
2020-06-22 10:50:08	styan	jan6: gemini-ls() { gemini-cat "$@" | awk '!f&&/^=>/{print$1}/^```/{f=!f}'; }''
2020-06-22 10:51:20	krixano	xq, feature request... the ability to search gus more quickly... either from some shortcut/menu item/button, or from address textbox
2020-06-22 10:51:27	jan6	I notice nested ' which wouldn't work, lol
2020-06-22 10:51:32	jan6	or no
2020-06-22 10:51:37	jan6	it' just a '' at the end for no reason
2020-06-22 10:51:54	styan	Oh, I thought I did the double-backtick quote.
2020-06-22 10:52:01	styan	I guess that I deleted those.
2020-06-22 10:52:13	jan6	even if they weren't quotes, they were only at the very end
2020-06-22 10:52:14	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 11:03:49	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 11:12:42	krixano	Btw, the hostname, and in fact the whole authority (including port and userinfo), is not part of the path.
2020-06-22 11:21:57	kensanata	With Gemini and Titan we already have file transfers...
2020-06-22 11:22:41	@xq	<krixano> So... "mailto:user@domain" - user@domain is the path, but "ftp://user@domain" - user is authentication, not part of path. xq, is this right or wrong?
2020-06-22 11:22:43	@xq	yes, this is correct!
2020-06-22 11:22:56	@xq	<krixano> xq, feature request... the ability to search gus more quickly... either from some shortcut/menu item/button, or from address textbox
2020-06-22 11:23:01	@xq	this is kinda planned
2020-06-22 11:23:02	krixano	Ok, I understand now. Thanks!
2020-06-22 11:23:16	@xq	it's a bit confusing, but "path" does not mean a file system path in the case of URI
2020-06-22 11:25:19	krixano	I wonder, does that mean it's technically possible to specify an authority for mailto, at least if it's implemented and what that does is defined?
2020-06-22 11:25:31	@xq	yes :D
2020-06-22 11:25:36	krixano	Like: "mailto://mailserver/user@domain"?
2020-06-22 11:25:36	@xq	well, probably not
2020-06-22 11:25:49	@xq	because it's forbidden in the mailto RFC for sure
2020-06-22 11:25:56	krixano	Ah, ok
2020-06-22 11:26:01	@xq	and: mailto:name@host is a relative path, but /mail@host is absolute
2020-06-22 11:26:10	krixano	Ah, right
2020-06-22 11:26:22	krixano	Can you do relative paths with authorities?
2020-06-22 11:26:47	krixano	I don't know how you would even do that...
2020-06-22 11:26:47	@xq	no
2020-06-22 11:26:53	@xq	you can only do empty or absolute path
2020-06-22 11:54:29	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 12:56:09		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 12:59:21	CommunistWolf	heh, rss for agate is about 1/5th the RSS for caddy
2020-06-22 12:59:49	CommunistWolf	wonder why it needs a 300MiB VSZ
2020-06-22 13:01:28	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 13:07:33	⚡	tiwesdaeg waves
2020-06-22 13:16:40	@xq	heyhoh
2020-06-22 13:17:44	dkibi	heyo everyone
2020-06-22 13:32:05	@tomasino	yo yo yo
2020-06-22 13:40:03	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 13:42:02	jan6	yo schmo
2020-06-22 13:42:26	jan6	why is there a diamond emoji, but no gemini zodiac sign emoji in topic?
2020-06-22 13:42:30	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 13:43:18	jan6	it's gemini space mission, not GEMini treasure hunt, after all ;P
2020-06-22 13:47:10	@tomasino	the zodiac unicodes look lame?
2020-06-22 13:47:32	jan6	get a better font that doesn't make it look lame?
2020-06-22 13:47:41	jan6	and no more lame than any other emoji
2020-06-22 13:47:42	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 13:47:55	jan6	♊
2020-06-22 13:48:08	jan6	looks no worse than 💎
2020-06-22 13:48:32	@xq	♊♊♊
2020-06-22 13:48:36	paper	aww, config file called gem.ini
2020-06-22 13:48:54	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 13:48:57		plugd has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-22 13:49:10	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/Q_E.png
2020-06-22 13:49:22	@tomasino	gem looks cooler
2020-06-22 13:49:55	@xq	i (obviously) preferr the gem :D
2020-06-22 13:52:06	@tomasino	i actually had no stance on the issue until jan6 came out in favor of zodiac. now on principle i have to go with the stone
2020-06-22 13:52:42	jan6	nah
2020-06-22 13:52:48	jan6	I'd prefer both ;P
2020-06-22 13:53:10	jan6	so now on principle, you'd have to not want either, tomasino
2020-06-22 13:54:22	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 13:54:41	@xq	makeworld: https://wiki.gnupg.org/WKD
2020-06-22 13:54:59	@xq	maybe we can do something similar to CAs in gemini, but peer-to-peer/distributed
2020-06-22 13:56:33	@xq	so a friend-based trust list. "if this guy thinks, this site is okay, i can assume that as well"
2020-06-22 14:02:42	paper	xq: something like this was discussed a few days ago and I think solderpunk is thinking about it
2020-06-22 14:04:11	@tomasino	we should get rid of unicode
2020-06-22 14:04:14	@tomasino	;)
2020-06-22 14:04:27	paper	yay, go ASCII only
2020-06-22 14:04:29	plugd	tomasino: Sean's tests getting you down? :-)
2020-06-22 14:04:39	@tomasino	nah, jan6 related
2020-06-22 14:04:50	@tomasino	dots & dashes are probably better
2020-06-22 14:05:10	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:05:13	jan6	ascii sux
2020-06-22 14:05:19	tadzik	unicode is a joke taken too far
2020-06-22 14:05:31	jan6	tadzik: just try to write chinese in ascii
2020-06-22 14:05:42	tadzik	jan6: I can't even write my own name in ascii
2020-06-22 14:05:45	jan6	or juggle 500 codepages
2020-06-22 14:06:01	tadzik	but I'd be willing to take that sacrifice if it means taking the emojis down with me
2020-06-22 14:06:08	jan6	it's either tons of incompatible codepages, or one unicode
2020-06-22 14:06:13	jan6	nobody forces you to have emoji
2020-06-22 14:06:14	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:06:20	jan6	you can simply patch them out of your font
2020-06-22 14:06:24	tadzik	well it's no longer unicode if you skip them
2020-06-22 14:06:33	jan6	you can also just replace them the black and white versions
2020-06-22 14:06:36	tadzik	I do that :)
2020-06-22 14:06:43	jan6	in which case they're not too bad
2020-06-22 14:06:49	tadzik	but the otherwise wonderful idea is now bloated by design
2020-06-22 14:06:59	jan6	you don't have to handle ALL of unicode, anyway
2020-06-22 14:07:11	jan6	you never had to
2020-06-22 14:07:12	paper	I hate … instead of ..., but it seems to be typographically better
2020-06-22 14:07:18	jan6	heh
2020-06-22 14:07:25	tadzik	and one day we'll meet some interstellar civilization and it'll turn out that we need UTF-64 to fit their alphabet because we wasted all the smaller codepoints on FRONT FACING BABY CHICKEN or some BS
2020-06-22 14:07:29	tadzik	mark my words
2020-06-22 14:07:34	tadzik	it'll be IPv4 all over again
2020-06-22 14:07:35	jan6	unicode is great, you only need to implement the parts you need though
2020-06-22 14:07:40	jan6	no
2020-06-22 14:07:50	jan6	that's not a job for unicode, lol
2020-06-22 14:07:58	@tomasino	dot dot dash
2020-06-22 14:08:00	jan6	that's Galactic Standard Alphabet
2020-06-22 14:08:11	tadzik	I've no doubt we'll ruin that too
2020-06-22 14:08:12	jan6	and Galactic Unicode
2020-06-22 14:08:28	tadzik	I'd be happy with the Sensible Unicode, and Sensible UTF-8
2020-06-22 14:08:34	jan6	just use UCS-2
2020-06-22 14:08:46	jan6	it encodes all of Basic Multilingual Plane, I think
2020-06-22 14:08:51	tadzik	hm
2020-06-22 14:08:52	plugd	jan6: Galactic Unicode is probably already full of alien emoji
2020-06-22 14:08:55	jan6	it's basically a Sensible utf-16
2020-06-22 14:09:04	jan6	no variable width, either
2020-06-22 14:10:00	jan6	just imagine if unicode included every distinct species of everything as emoji, lol
2020-06-22 14:10:31	`epochbot	unicode-earth
2020-06-22 14:10:32	jan6	distinct, as in, has recognizeable features
2020-06-22 14:10:39	jan6	unique features, I meant
2020-06-22 14:10:44	`epochbot	unicode-human ?
2020-06-22 14:10:45	tadzik	I wish regular characters followed that same rule ;)
2020-06-22 14:11:24	tadzik	at least I can break emoticon->emoji substitution with the zero-width space
2020-06-22 14:11:32	tadzik	there's some good in that technology
2020-06-22 14:11:42	`epochbot	if there ends up being written language by other species, will it get inluded in unicode?
2020-06-22 14:12:03	tadzik	Tolkien's elvish is in there,no?
2020-06-22 14:12:21	tadzik	also, how do you know ancient earth languages were written by humans? %)
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	   heiroglyphs
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	            ,,,,,,,
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	          ,%%%%%%%%%m
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	         %%%/   '''%%
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	          %| _  _  %%
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	           | -  -  |/
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	           |  /_   |
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	           |. == _/
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	      . _-'  '--' '-.
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	   .-// .          . '-_
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	  / | \//        . \\   '-.
2020-06-22 14:13:04	`epochbot	 /  |  /         \\/ |    |
2020-06-22 14:13:05	`epochbot	/  /  /           |  |    |
2020-06-22 14:13:06	`epochbot	   A L I E N S
2020-06-22 14:14:01	tadzik	nice
2020-06-22 14:14:26	tadzik	(see, we can have all that fun with no silly unicode! /s)
2020-06-22 14:14:29	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:14:54	jan6	tadzik: emoticon -> emoji substitution is not a thing to basically anyone
2020-06-22 14:14:55	jan6	;p
2020-06-22 14:15:02	tadzik	jan6: haha, I wish :D
2020-06-22 14:15:15	jan6	I see :D not "laughing emoji"
2020-06-22 14:15:18	companion_cube	🌈👽🌈
2020-06-22 14:15:18	jan6	;p
2020-06-22 14:15:25	tadzik	the worst thing is, you never know :o
2020-06-22 14:15:29	jan6	that is rainbow alien rainbow
2020-06-22 14:15:31	jan6	never know what
2020-06-22 14:15:34	tadzik	jan6: well we're using good old sensible tech ;)
2020-06-22 14:15:40	tadzik	I have a client using MS Teams now
2020-06-22 14:15:45	tadzik	what an abomination
2020-06-22 14:15:55	jan6	https://www.unicode.org/emoji/charts/emoji-zwj-sequences.html
2020-06-22 14:16:10	jan6	the combining emoji are an abomination
2020-06-22 14:16:21	jan6	and don't work on terminals
2020-06-22 14:16:29	tadzik	back in muh day I invented =:-D-\-<)8 because I wanted to be a punk on a skateboard
2020-06-22 14:16:39	tadzik	now the creativity is built out of prefabs :(
2020-06-22 14:16:51	tadzik	(yes, I know I built mine out of prefabs too)
2020-06-22 14:16:58	tadzik	(don't ruin my dream)
2020-06-22 14:17:08	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:17:14	jan6	no it isn't
2020-06-22 14:17:19	jan6	creativity, that is
2020-06-22 14:18:21	tadzik	yeah, I'm just being a bit grumpy
2020-06-22 14:18:35	tadzik	(at the fact that system updates randomly reinstall the color-emoji font and it looks like ass in terminal)
2020-06-22 14:18:44	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:18:48	jan6	patch your main font then
2020-06-22 14:18:59	jan6	to include the black and white ones, or so
2020-06-22 14:19:06	tadzik	it does, some of them anyway
2020-06-22 14:19:07	jan6	or set up font alternatives system better
2020-06-22 14:19:42	tadzik	I'd prefer sanity by default :) They work in browsers and "modern" chat clients anyway
2020-06-22 14:19:53	jan6	or, here's an idea... make an empty file, chown to root, chmod to 000
2020-06-22 14:19:53	jan6	;p
2020-06-22 14:20:02	jan6	that way it won't be overwritten ;P
2020-06-22 14:20:05	tadzik	:o
2020-06-22 14:20:14	jan6	or something like that
2020-06-22 14:20:21	jan6	or symlink it to /dev/null
2020-06-22 14:20:24	tadzik	I'm not even sure if it's just a single file on modern linux, things be crazy these days
2020-06-22 14:20:31	jan6	fonts still are
2020-06-22 14:20:32	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:20:37	jan6	not sure the package is
2020-06-22 14:20:40	tadzik	even keymaps are no longer simple files in xkb/symbols
2020-06-22 14:20:47	jan6	WHICH keymaps
2020-06-22 14:20:48	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:20:49	tadzik	gnome has some XML definitions for these
2020-06-22 14:20:58	tadzik	mine! :P
2020-06-22 14:21:00	jan6	there's several different incompatible keymap formats now
2020-06-22 14:21:07	~tiwesdaeg	xq: you better hurry up with that android port, deedum is already in the play store
2020-06-22 14:21:14	tadzik	I've one that sets perfectly fine with `setxkbmap`
2020-06-22 14:21:25	tadzik	but it doesn't show up in barely any of the GUI tools
2020-06-22 14:21:46	jan6	setxkbmap sets x11 keymap, but gnome can have its own ON TOP of that ;P
2020-06-22 14:21:53	tadzik	gah!
2020-06-22 14:21:55	jan6	which is why DEs sux
2020-06-22 14:22:02	jan6	there's also console keymap
2020-06-22 14:22:06	jan6	which is ALSO different
2020-06-22 14:22:06	tadzik	they're the emojis of x11
2020-06-22 14:22:08	⚡	tadzik hides
2020-06-22 14:22:14	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:22:16	tadzik	yeah, I don't wanna go anywhere near that :P
2020-06-22 14:22:32	tadzik	I tried to dig into how exactly gnome is doing this, but they must hide their documentation really well
2020-06-22 14:22:38	jan6	nah
2020-06-22 14:22:43	tadzik	so I just keep a fix-computer.sh that I autorun
2020-06-22 14:22:44	jan6	probably just used wrong search terms
2020-06-22 14:22:49	jan6	or looked in wrong places
2020-06-22 14:22:54	tadzik	can't go wrong with that
2020-06-22 14:24:14	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:25:19	jan6	https://wiki.debian.org/Keyboard
2020-06-22 14:25:21	jan6	has some info
2020-06-22 14:25:35	jan6	though might be out of date
2020-06-22 14:26:38	jan6	some IBus or so might be interfering, plus like 2 gnome commands, + one to reset it (assumedly to the same as the default one you already set)
2020-06-22 14:28:49	tadzik	I gave on GNOME since, but I do have a similar problem with KDE now
2020-06-22 14:36:09	jan6	gave on? gave up?
2020-06-22 14:36:20	tadzik	yes, sorry
2020-06-22 14:36:40	jan6	well, all the big DEs probably do rather similar things ;P
2020-06-22 14:36:46	tadzik	yeah, I guess so :)
2020-06-22 14:37:02	companion_cube	https://robert.ocallahan.org/2020/05/why-forking-html-into-static-language.html
2020-06-22 14:37:12	tadzik	I do like a DE on the desktop though, so I endure these minor thingies
2020-06-22 14:37:30	tadzik	it may also help if I read up on how this whole layouting works instead of relying on this one xkb file I wrote like 12 years ago
2020-06-22 14:39:59	tadzik	companion_cube: I guess you could say google's AMP is kind of what the author describes: a smaller subset of HTML that you bully people into adopting
2020-06-22 14:40:11	tadzik	it doesn't take the idea very far though, obviously
2020-06-22 14:41:29	jan6	AMP is evil
2020-06-22 14:41:40	tadzik	no argument there
2020-06-22 14:41:58	companion_cube	can anyone be on #gemini and think AMP is not evil? :D
2020-06-22 14:41:59	tadzik	mostly the implementation though, the idea is not *completely* bad
2020-06-22 14:42:21	tadzik	I wouldn't mind a subset of modern web that doesn't move stuff around as I'm trying to read
2020-06-22 14:42:45	tadzik	but "text loading slower than the images" sure is way higher on the list of annoyances :P
2020-06-22 14:43:09	tadzik	webfonts can go to hell
2020-06-22 14:44:12	@xq	<paper> xq: something like this was discussed a few days ago and I think solderpunk is thinking about it
2020-06-22 14:44:24	@xq	yeah, i actually think that's a good idea
2020-06-22 14:44:25	companion_cube	anyone remembers the url of that blogpost on gemini not being html?
2020-06-22 14:46:00	jan6	webfonts aren't bad, if used correctly
2020-06-22 14:46:12	jan6	defaults are borked tho ;P
2020-06-22 14:46:42	tadzik	yeah, I don't mind if they incrementally improve something and you barely notice when they don't work
2020-06-22 14:47:14	companion_cube	(found the faq, nevermind)
2020-06-22 14:47:15	tadzik	but often it's "we use that same font for text and icons so if you disable webfonts the icons break", and/or "we don't have fallback for non-webfonts at all"
2020-06-22 14:47:34	jan6	there is a way to use webfonts correctly, so it swaps the font once it's done loading
2020-06-22 14:47:42	jan6	but not showing ANYTHING till loaded, is just bad desig
2020-06-22 14:47:43	jan6	n
2020-06-22 14:47:49	tadzik	yeah, I sometimes notice that pop-in, and it's not that bad
2020-06-22 14:48:22	jan6	lol you should use a different font for icons, of you NEED a font for icons, anyway
2020-06-22 14:48:32	jan6	and only use an appropriate subset
2020-06-22 14:48:52	jan6	like, not loading entire FontAwesome just to get facebook/twitter/instagram logos and nothing else
2020-06-22 14:49:08	@xq	<tiwesdaeg> xq: you better hurry up with that android port, deedum is already in the play store
2020-06-22 14:49:23	@xq	well, i keep my pace and i want to make a *good* android port, not a *functional* one
2020-06-22 14:49:32	⚡	jan6 wonders if android terminal client would qualify as "android client" lol
2020-06-22 14:49:54	jan6	it runs on android, so technically?
2020-06-22 14:50:51	xfnw	lol
2020-06-22 14:51:04	@xq	lol :D
2020-06-22 14:51:04	xfnw	jan6: unlock ur bootloader lol
2020-06-22 14:51:27	⚡	companion_cube would be happy if there were no webfonts at all 🤷
2020-06-22 14:51:40	companion_cube	in fact for a long time I forbade custom fonts in firefox
2020-06-22 14:51:46	xfnw	lol
2020-06-22 14:51:56	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:52:28		plugd has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 14:52:32	tadzik	play store shmey store, where is the f-droid build? :)
2020-06-22 14:52:41	jan6	I think fonts should have limits, and follow similar design standards, so that you can swap them out and keep everything the same ;P
2020-06-22 14:52:45	tadzik	don't say it's on android if it's only on google android P:
2020-06-22 14:53:08	jan6	tadzik: you DO know there's yalp and aurora store and several online places? ;P
2020-06-22 14:53:17	@xq	<tadzik> play store shmey store, where is the f-droid build? :)
2020-06-22 14:53:18	jan6	also it's PROBABLY available as source
2020-06-22 14:53:22	@xq	Kristall will be F-Droid only
2020-06-22 14:53:27	tadzik	xq: wonderful :)
2020-06-22 14:53:32	jan6	f-droid ONLY? why?
2020-06-22 14:53:41	tadzik	jan6: yeah, that's too many extra steps for me to bother though :P
2020-06-22 14:54:10	jan6	xfnw: unlock it for me if you so desire, no other way to open it, lol
2020-06-22 14:54:35	snoe	fdroid is kinda overwhelming, but I'll get deedum there eventually
2020-06-22 14:54:47	tadzik	I do wonder how much of a bother is it to build something into an .apk from scratch
2020-06-22 14:54:52	tadzik	I assume you need android studio or something?
2020-06-22 14:55:07	snoe	i'm building on github actions - just need the sdks
2020-06-22 14:55:11	@xq	jan6: because i don't want to use a google account? ;)
2020-06-22 14:55:31	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 14:55:32	@xq	tadzik: android sdk
2020-06-22 14:55:40	tadzik	nod nod
2020-06-22 14:55:57	@xq	you need android sdk, NDK, jdk 2, …
2020-06-22 14:56:02	@xq	and gradle
2020-06-22 14:56:03	@xq	for building android stuff
2020-06-22 14:56:06	@xq	it's super-overkill
2020-06-22 14:56:08	jan6	don't think ALL of them
2020-06-22 14:56:17	jan6	it's just the "official way" to get all of them
2020-06-22 14:56:34	jan6	well, get android studio which in turn gets all the stuff
2020-06-22 14:57:02	jan6	at least the adb and so were liberated from the full sdk, lol
2020-06-22 14:57:23	jan6	adb install -g Kristall.apk
2020-06-22 14:57:23	jan6	;P
2020-06-22 14:57:28	@xq	hehe
2020-06-22 14:57:30	@xq	yeah, true
2020-06-22 14:57:36	@xq	i want dependencies as low as possible
2020-06-22 14:57:43	@xq	but a android build with Qt isn't that easy
2020-06-22 14:58:08	jan6	I'd love if there was a way to have package install, or even full out adb permissions for normal user-mode apps
2020-06-22 14:58:30	jan6	maybe some fancy adb command, like there is for system logs (needed by logcat apps and whatnot), but still
2020-06-22 14:58:38	snoe	ui frameworks these days is almost always dependent on js now, which kills me
2020-06-22 14:58:49	jan6	depends which ones, I guess
2020-06-22 14:59:07	jan6	mainstream stuff tends to crapify over time, with accelerating speed
2020-06-22 14:59:21	@xq	snoe: Use Qt!
2020-06-22 14:59:49	jan6	Qt is a bit bloaty itself, but at least it produces acceptable stuff cross-platform ;P
2020-06-22 15:00:31	@xq	yeah, Qt isn't slim
2020-06-22 15:00:38	@xq	but you can slim it down with static linking
2020-06-22 15:00:44	tadzik	I started with that assumption recently and fellback to Gtk. C++ is not easy to bind to :|
2020-06-22 15:00:44	@xq	(which i want to try for Kristall linux release…) :D
2020-06-22 15:00:53	snoe	I gave up trying qt on mobile :/ also all the qt docs now point at qxml which seems to be basically the same problem
2020-06-22 15:01:04	@xq	tadzik: true. sadly Gtk3 isn't nice either :(
2020-06-22 15:01:10	tadzik	also, the mere installation of Qt on windows was almost enough to warrant a ragequit
2020-06-22 15:01:18	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I'm just poking at you. You're doing great
2020-06-22 15:01:19	jan6	what ame problem, snoe?
2020-06-22 15:01:19	@xq	tadzik: huh?!
2020-06-22 15:01:29	@xq	that's just "use the download manager and it will work self-contained"?
2020-06-22 15:01:40	tadzik	the download manager peaked at about 100kB/s for me
2020-06-22 15:01:45	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 15:01:49	@xq	yeah, it sometimes does that
2020-06-22 15:01:49	@xq	:D
2020-06-22 15:01:51	tadzik	the offline installer is no more these days, apparently
2020-06-22 15:01:56	@xq	tiwesdaeg: still! i'd love to surf gemspace on mobile
2020-06-22 15:02:03	tadzik	and then good luck talking to it from Rust
2020-06-22 15:02:04	jan6	use ssh?
2020-06-22 15:02:04	snoe	@jan6 the problem of having to use an html + css layout engine in order to build a gemini browser
2020-06-22 15:02:15	jan6	huh
2020-06-22 15:02:20	jan6	I mean html+css isn't bad
2020-06-22 15:02:21	tadzik	Gtk was just a breeze, in both aspects
2020-06-22 15:02:29	jan6	but it's not great for forcing to use on native apps
2020-06-22 15:02:40	tadzik	though I admit I only know how to build it because neovim has a CI script in its repo :P
2020-06-22 15:02:48	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 15:03:03	snoe	if you're using rust, have you checked out druid? they seem to be doing it right
2020-06-22 15:03:05	tadzik	apparently msys2 is a thing and it makes windows less awful
2020-06-22 15:03:24	tadzik	snoe: well, my "benchmark" for a toolkit was "can I spin up a file chooser dialog without implementing it myself"
2020-06-22 15:03:45	tadzik	I had more enough to worry about in that project, I didn't feel like build a native-looking FS browser myself :)
2020-06-22 15:03:56	jan6	so is cygwin, so is wsl (though wsl is just linux, so ¯\o/¯)
2020-06-22 15:03:57	tadzik	so it was down to Gtk and Qt, basically
2020-06-22 15:04:20	snoe	haha, yeah :( end of civilization
2020-06-22 15:04:25	tadzik	jan6: I'm not sure if wsl is capable of build non-WSL binaries though
2020-06-22 15:04:36	jan6	I mean, you can build windows programs on linux
2020-06-22 15:04:42	jan6	so...sure?
2020-06-22 15:05:00	tadzik	eh, I guess?
2020-06-22 15:05:12	jan6	and that's a problem with cygwin
2020-06-22 15:05:20	jan6	wsl is just normal linux afaik
2020-06-22 15:05:27	tadzik	I don't know, this was my first time on windows for years :P
2020-06-22 15:05:31	jan6	for the most part at least, kernel might be microsoft
2020-06-22 15:05:38	jan6	hehe
2020-06-22 15:05:44	tadzik	on msys2 there was pacman, which installed gtk, and then all that was left to do was the zip the exe with the dlls
2020-06-22 15:05:57	tadzik	that's like working on a real os
2020-06-22 15:07:28	jan6	oh btw, windows 10 has a package manager now ;P
2020-06-22 15:08:00	tadzik	wake me up when it has rebootless updates :
2020-06-22 15:08:05	jan6	lol
2020-06-22 15:08:16	jan6	that's probably impossible because of all the legacy crap
2020-06-22 15:08:26	jan6	registry and whatnot
2020-06-22 15:08:32	tadzik	could be
2020-06-22 15:14:25	jan6	I mean, "con" and whatnot are *STILL* prohibited from being used as filenames
2020-06-22 15:15:02	jan6	lol, in a git repo make src/.../con/secret_stuff and windows won't get it ;P
2020-06-22 15:15:05		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-22 15:16:05	tadzik	hahah
2020-06-22 15:16:10	tadzik	I remember reading about that, yeah
2020-06-22 15:16:19	tadzik	they do take backcompat seriously, you gotta give them that
2020-06-22 15:16:33	tadzik	on linux I can barely play the games I bought 5 years ago
2020-06-22 15:17:46	yeti	linux is a game
2020-06-22 15:18:33	@xq	windows gaming on linux is now more performant than on windows for a (non-small) subset of games
2020-06-22 15:26:44	~tiwesdaeg	I wonder how overwatch works on linux these days
2020-06-22 15:27:12	~tiwesdaeg	I couldn't get it to run that well last year
2020-06-22 16:11:17	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 16:11:34	acdw	morning all!
2020-06-22 16:11:53	acdw	do yall know if there are any unix-type operating systems which *don't* have the `date` command?
2020-06-22 16:12:12	acdw	slash do you know how to parse a date with only bash? lol
2020-06-22 16:17:42	acdw	slash slash do you know how to get openssl x509 to output arbitrary date formats with -date? lol
2020-06-22 16:17:47	acdw	2xlol
2020-06-22 16:19:19	tadzik	hehe, does bash itself have anything for string manipulation?
2020-06-22 16:19:32	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 16:19:34	tadzik	I thought you have to rely on external programs for pretty much anything
2020-06-22 16:19:51	acdw	bash actually has pretty robust string manipulation, and even math
2020-06-22 16:19:52	tadzik	and since you do, and Perl is a part of LSB.... ;)
2020-06-22 16:19:57	tadzik	oh, interesting
2020-06-22 16:20:01	acdw	well... integer math
2020-06-22 16:20:08	acdw	mmm perl
2020-06-22 16:20:19	acdw	IDK if I wanna take a bite out of that onion.. ;)
2020-06-22 16:20:23	tadzik	hehe
2020-06-22 16:20:35	acdw	how are you this day tadzik?
2020-06-22 16:20:45	tadzik	pretty well, thanks :)
2020-06-22 16:20:47	acdw	I almost said morning but I realized that you might not be in my timezone
2020-06-22 16:20:48	acdw	:)
2020-06-22 16:20:48	snoe	I thought bash had a weird regex engine built in around vars
2020-06-22 16:21:06	acdw	oh yeah it's got a regex thing ... [[ $VAR =~ RE ]]
2020-06-22 16:21:13	tadzik	huh
2020-06-22 16:21:20	acdw	it even groups with ${BASH_REMATCH[x]}
2020-06-22 16:21:30	tadzik	you can do pretty much anything then :o
2020-06-22 16:21:38	acdw	hmmm that *is* true
2020-06-22 16:21:43	tadzik	even if it's the dumb regex.h variant
2020-06-22 16:22:02	acdw	oof but I do *not* feel like writing that
2020-06-22 16:22:11	acdw	not right now
2020-06-22 16:22:49	tadzik	well, /(\d+)/g should give you all of the date components, the challenge is knowing the order :)
2020-06-22 16:23:44	acdw	haha that's true. well except the dates are in this format: Aug  1 06:26:32 2020 GMT
2020-06-22 16:23:49	tadzik	oh no
2020-06-22 16:24:48	acdw	so /(\w+)\s+(\d+)\s+(\d\d):(\d\d):(\d\d)\s+(\d\d\d\d)\s+(\w+)/
2020-06-22 16:24:49	tadzik	still, that's not *super* bad
2020-06-22 16:24:49	acdw	lol
2020-06-22 16:25:15	acdw	I need to make sure that's the only format the dates are ever in
2020-06-22 16:25:39	acdw	and then gotta do math
2020-06-22 16:25:39	tadzik	yeah, this one will at least fail early for anything else than that format
2020-06-22 16:25:55	acdw	I really *hope* that is at least specced or something
2020-06-22 16:26:03	tadzik	it's probably iso-something
2020-06-22 16:26:10	acdw	b/c if SSL is going to use a stupid date format it'd better be consistent
2020-06-22 16:26:16	tadzik	doesn't `date` have some options to parse and emit dates in arbitrary formats though?
2020-06-22 16:26:23	tadzik	perhaps it's only gnu date, not sure if that works for you
2020-06-22 16:26:34	acdw	yep! That's why I was asking lol
2020-06-22 16:27:07	tadzik	brings you back to why Perl was created :P “it's easier to port a shell than a shell script”
2020-06-22 16:27:13	acdw	hahah
2020-06-22 16:27:33	acdw	is that why it's an onion? The layers of an onion like shells in shells in shells
2020-06-22 16:28:01	tadzik	hehe, I don't actually know where the onion comes from
2020-06-22 16:28:03	tadzik	inb4 it's the smell
2020-06-22 16:28:36	acdw	lolol
2020-06-22 16:30:19	tadzik	acdw: are you writing that bash gemini client?
2020-06-22 16:30:27	acdw	yep! bollux
2020-06-22 16:30:31	tadzik	awesome :)
2020-06-22 16:30:34	acdw	:) Thanks
2020-06-22 16:30:57	acdw	I *want* it to be 100% in bash, but openssl is a pretty hard dependency (I do *not* know anything about crypto)
2020-06-22 16:31:09	acdw	and until I can write a pager in bash, 'less' is also one
2020-06-22 16:31:20	acdw	so I'm thinking that for the time being, it's okay if 'date' is one too
2020-06-22 16:42:35	makeworld	I would say so
2020-06-22 16:44:11	acdw	:D thanks makeworld
2020-06-22 16:52:15	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 16:53:15		snoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-22 16:54:06		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-22 16:54:11	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 17:11:18		StygianBlues has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 17:12:44	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 17:29:22	jan6	19:11 <acdw> do yall know if there are any unix-type operating systems which *don't* have the `date` command?
2020-06-22 17:29:35	jan6	if you don't have "date" you probably don't have bash or zsh either, lol
2020-06-22 17:29:42	acdw	oh cool
2020-06-22 17:30:01	acdw	that's good to know jan6, thank you!
2020-06-22 17:31:17	jan6	I mean, it's not a fact
2020-06-22 17:32:01	tadzik	if you already use openssl you may be able to create a new cert and look at its creation date :>
2020-06-22 17:32:05	jan6	also busybox's and toybox's utilities would probably be pretty easy to port, if you needed "date"
2020-06-22 17:32:59	jan6	just make cert validation an optional feature, acdw, and boom, no worries ;P
2020-06-22 17:33:13	jan6	"need "date" for cert validation (enabled by default)"
2020-06-22 17:33:27	acdw	oh that's a pretty good idea too.
2020-06-22 17:33:33	acdw	I'll make it configurable I think!
2020-06-22 17:33:47	jan6	it's also possible to use socat for ssl, and such, but not sure you can get the certs from socat
2020-06-22 17:33:51	acdw	That ties in well w/ solderpunk's whole differing clients for differing needs
2020-06-22 17:34:05	jan6	I used socat before going for openssl s_client from my simple gemini_get.sh
2020-06-22 17:34:14	jan6	*for
2020-06-22 17:34:34	acdw	TBH the cert thing is a good piont for openssl s_client
2020-06-22 17:34:52	acdw	I think I'm going to stick w/ it -- b/c openssl also has x509 which is what I"m using for validation
2020-06-22 17:34:57	acdw	one command
2020-06-22 17:35:04	jan6	socat can be a bit finnicky though, I had to put a manual wait time, or socat would just silently fail
2020-06-22 17:35:35	jan6	certs can be self signed, and in gemini often are, as I heard, are those validated well? ;P
2020-06-22 17:39:50	snoe60	got a question for yall, in deedum I was playing with the idea of sizing pre text blocks to take up the whole width of the browser - so whether it broke at 40, 80, or 120 chars it could act as a "header" of sorts and mitigates the need to horizontal scroll. Is that too weird?
2020-06-22 17:41:05	yeti	too long lines just hurt
2020-06-22 17:41:08	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 17:41:08	acdw	snoe60: is that not what it already is? What it's doing now I really like
2020-06-22 17:41:17	snoe60	yeah that's what it does now
2020-06-22 17:41:36	acdw	I really like it
2020-06-22 17:41:45	snoe60	ok cool, thanks
2020-06-22 17:41:47	acdw	Maybe an option where if you double-tap it it'd zoom in would be okay
2020-06-22 17:41:51	acdw	for detailed art
2020-06-22 17:42:00	Sario528	I'm a fan of not having to scroll horizontally
2020-06-22 17:42:06	snoe60	right, I was thinking of cycling through char width breaks
2020-06-22 17:42:13	acdw	ooh i like that
2020-06-22 17:42:35	snoe60	and then ... softwrap?
2020-06-22 17:43:42	snoe60	hrm for art, it might have to overflow then
2020-06-22 17:44:20	snoe60	i think that's a good idea though, it would basically act like an image
2020-06-22 17:45:36	snoe60	I've been using gemini://tilde.black/users/brool/stoned.txt as a test case, but it has one very long line on the bottom that throws it all off :(
2020-06-22 17:45:45	jan6	probably best to have an option for the preformatted, let it be as small as it has to be to fit all at once, or require user to scroll
2020-06-22 17:46:38	jan6	some art would look good zoomed out too, but some stuff will need to be readable
2020-06-22 17:50:16		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 17:52:16		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-22 18:01:49	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 18:15:53	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 18:19:09	CommunistWolf	hmm, I got really stressed about a piece of code in Agate but it turns out to be fine
2020-06-22 18:19:12	CommunistWolf	no path traversal
2020-06-22 18:25:05		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-22 18:25:57	@xq	small change in Kristall: https://mq32.de/public/f8c63ef781cc69ff823bdd5e3556dca326d91394.png
2020-06-22 18:31:09	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 18:35:09	@xq	hey kensanata
2020-06-22 18:35:19	kensanata	yo
2020-06-22 18:35:33	kensanata	making fennel soup... what's up?
2020-06-22 18:35:58	@xq	good idea, i should get into the kitchen as well
2020-06-22 18:36:10	@xq	have already finished one bullet point from Kristall 0.4 todo list :3
2020-06-22 18:36:14	@xq	light/dark icons
2020-06-22 18:50:01	plugd	xq: I like the bookmark folders.  The ability to nest bookmark groups has been on the todo list for elpher for ages, but I've yet to find a sufficiently elegant approach there.
2020-06-22 18:50:39	@xq	bookmarks in groups will come to kristall in the next release
2020-06-22 18:50:46	@xq	right now, it's just a flat list
2020-06-22 18:51:03	@xq	but not sure if i want to support full folder structures or just a flat "group/bookmark" list
2020-06-22 18:51:13	plugd	hrm, must have been reading your screenshot wrongly
2020-06-22 18:51:21	@xq	that's certificates!
2020-06-22 18:51:24	@xq	not bookmarks
2020-06-22 18:51:38	plugd	ah! sorry :-)
2020-06-22 18:51:55	plugd	(now I see the greyed out expiration date fields)
2020-06-22 18:52:52	@xq	no worries
2020-06-22 18:52:58	@xq	i want to support the same style for bookmarks as well
2020-06-22 18:53:08	@xq	and allow quick-search in bookmarks via the search/URL bar
2020-06-22 18:54:09	plugd	I get search for free because emacs :-P
2020-06-22 18:55:23	@xq	haha
2020-06-22 18:55:28	@xq	well, not document search
2020-06-22 18:55:31	@xq	but site search
2020-06-22 18:55:44	@xq	so you get completions based on your browsing history and your favourites
2020-06-22 18:55:52	@xq	i want to do the following as well:
2020-06-22 18:55:55	plugd	that's cool.
2020-06-22 18:56:07	@xq	type "gus", hit tab, enter a search term and you will be able to search in gus :)
2020-06-22 18:57:05		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-22 18:57:15	plugd	nice.  I might think of doing something like that too.
2020-06-22 18:59:23	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 19:04:01	jan6	do it with bangs!
2020-06-22 19:06:06	⚡	jan6 is slowly fiddling with making a lil gemini client in haxe, so far got to the point of "can get raw page and use 3x redirects"
2020-06-22 19:06:46	@xq	:)
2020-06-22 19:06:48	@xq	that's something!
2020-06-22 19:06:49	jan6	is there any "normal" test page? as in, not a torture test, but just a casual test?
2020-06-22 19:07:31	jan6	examples of each status and whatnot, and of each element
2020-06-22 19:08:50	acdw	ya know that'd be a good thing to have
2020-06-22 19:08:59	@xq	visit gemini://mozz.us, it will redirect you to gemini://mozz.us/
2020-06-22 19:09:08	@xq	also, check out egsam!
2020-06-22 19:09:17	@xq	gemini://egsam.pitr.ca/
2020-06-22 19:09:35	@xq	it as nice test suite with "more common" use cases
2020-06-22 19:09:40	@xq	and not "all edge cases
2020-06-22 19:16:33	@xq	does someone know a site hosted with markdown content?
2020-06-22 19:17:40	~tiwesdaeg	xq: like the whole site is markdown?
2020-06-22 19:17:46	~tiwesdaeg	or it has markdown files
2020-06-22 19:19:55	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://libraryoferis.org/files/The_Honest_Book_of_Truth.md
2020-06-22 19:29:39	@xq	some markdown files are okay
2020-06-22 19:29:48	@xq	my server is bugging around and is not responding on new connections
2020-06-22 19:29:55	@xq	so i need some wa around that
2020-06-22 19:32:36		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 19:32:45	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/item.cgi?LOE00136
2020-06-22 19:32:54	~tiwesdaeg	that's the page that links to the file
2020-06-22 19:33:34	~tiwesdaeg	Markdown text color and dark themes for 0.4?
2020-06-22 19:35:03	@xq	thanks :)
2020-06-22 19:35:12	@xq	waaay better markdown support
2020-06-22 19:35:17	@xq	outline, theming, ...
2020-06-22 19:35:30	@xq	pretty much the full feature set of text/gemini + markdown specifics
2020-06-22 19:46:02	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://ik.ci/
2020-06-22 19:46:29	~tiwesdaeg	playing around with tomasino's tiny ncat shell server
2020-06-22 19:46:33	@xq	hihi
2020-06-22 19:47:17	~tiwesdaeg	I just included the gemini format in to the shell script instead of using a separate file
2020-06-22 19:48:23	~tiwesdaeg	not a ton of cheap 4 character domains left in the world
2020-06-22 19:48:34	@xq	the reserve is limited
2020-06-22 19:48:35	~tiwesdaeg	at least for cheap
2020-06-22 19:48:47	~tiwesdaeg	.ci has some left
2020-06-22 19:49:33	jan6	huh
2020-06-22 19:49:38	jan6	never heard of .ci
2020-06-22 19:49:46	~tiwesdaeg	Ivory Coast
2020-06-22 19:50:32	jan6	ah, I wonder if that also has a "should be related to our country/culture" like most place-names do
2020-06-22 19:51:19	~tiwesdaeg	not that I could tell
2020-06-22 19:51:34	~tiwesdaeg	there are some other's that you have to submit proof of residency
2020-06-22 19:52:03	~tiwesdaeg	this was pretty painless through https://www.francedns.co/
2020-06-22 19:52:04	jan6	but like .cat is SUPPOSED to be related to catalan culture
2020-06-22 19:52:27	@xq	file.cat
2020-06-22 19:52:34	~tiwesdaeg	16 euros was pretty cheap
2020-06-22 19:53:56	plugd	It'd be interesting to have an alternate pubnix DNS network.
2020-06-22 19:54:32	~tiwesdaeg	there is one in the tildeverse
2020-06-22 19:55:15	plugd	realy? great!
2020-06-22 19:55:22	~tiwesdaeg	https://tildenic.org/
2020-06-22 20:03:53	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 20:04:52	jan6	16 eur? that's not cheap, that's about average, slighly more expensive
2020-06-22 20:05:10	~tiwesdaeg	cheap for 4 characters
2020-06-22 20:05:20	~tiwesdaeg	everything else that is left is premium
2020-06-22 20:14:21	@xq	##[warning]Failed to download action 'https://api.github.com/repos/actions/checkout/tarball/v2'. Error: Name or service not known
2020-06-22 20:14:21	@xq	14
2020-06-22 20:14:22	@xq	LOL
2020-06-22 20:14:31	@xq	github actions tells me that github.com is not reachable :D
2020-06-22 20:21:02	krixano	github.com has been down for some people today
2020-06-22 20:21:49	@xq	yep
2020-06-22 20:21:52	@xq	including github.com :D
2020-06-22 20:22:22	@xq	their DNS record is empty…
2020-06-22 20:22:24	@xq	weird
2020-06-22 20:24:35	krixano	It's interesting, because github.com works for me.
2020-06-22 20:26:22	companion_cube	what's this "tilde" thing I keep seeing? :D
2020-06-22 20:39:32		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 20:41:37		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-22 20:47:31	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 20:51:26	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 21:00:30	~tiwesdaeg	companion_cube: https://tildeverse.org/
2020-06-22 21:00:42	companion_cube	ah, thank you!
2020-06-22 21:06:02	companion_cube	hum, so it's a set of like-minded communities, each of which shares a single server?
2020-06-22 21:08:20	~tiwesdaeg	something like that
2020-06-22 21:08:29	thewetcrab	Hi companion_cube, are you new here?
2020-06-22 21:08:36	thewetcrab	in the tildeverse?
2020-06-22 21:08:46	companion_cube	I've been lurking for a few weeks, I think?
2020-06-22 21:08:53	~tiwesdaeg	kind of like a sub-genera of pubnix
2020-06-22 21:09:21	companion_cube	I don't know that :s
2020-06-22 21:09:35	~tiwesdaeg	this irc server is deep in the heart of the tildeverse
2020-06-22 21:10:23	~tiwesdaeg	public servers providing accounts with cool stuff to do
2020-06-22 21:10:52	companion_cube	is there no risk of spam/overtake?
2020-06-22 21:10:58		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 21:11:08	~tiwesdaeg	everything is pretty small
2020-06-22 21:11:22	~tiwesdaeg	the benevolent dictators kick out the riffraff
2020-06-22 21:11:43	▬▬▶	thewetcran has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 21:12:30	~tiwesdaeg	the name comes the the ~ in the classic http urls of service providers of yesteryear
2020-06-22 21:12:32	companion_cube	right, if you notice them quickly I guess it works
2020-06-22 21:12:36	companion_cube	yeah that I can relate to :D
2020-06-22 21:14:08		thewetcran has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 21:17:32	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 21:17:55	thewetcrab	I got disconnected so lost the thread of the conversation ......
2020-06-22 21:18:13	thewetcrab	But isn't a tilde server also a pubnix server?
2020-06-22 21:18:19	thewetcrab	or are they different?
2020-06-22 21:19:27	dkibi	companion_cube: there is even a tilde radio!
2020-06-22 21:20:27		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 21:24:35		plugd has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 21:25:40	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 21:26:33	thewetcrab	companion_cube, there is a lot to discover on the tilde servers, there is also a ham radio channel and I believe the is a VOiP .tel server somewhere ....
2020-06-22 21:26:39	thewetcrab	lots of great things here,
2020-06-22 21:27:46	companion_cube	it'd have been great for me 10y ago :)
2020-06-22 21:27:59		pekka20 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-22 21:30:59	thewetcrab	why is that companion_cube?
2020-06-22 21:31:25	companion_cube	I don't have time to explore this kind of stuff
2020-06-22 21:31:26	dkibi	my gemini project is hampered by my inability to write parsers
2020-06-22 21:31:32	thewetcrab	sounds like you have an interesting story to share, what was different 10 years ago?
2020-06-22 21:32:06		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 21:32:14	dkibi	poor wet crab
2020-06-22 21:32:34	companion_cube	dkibi: you want to write a parser for text/gemini?
2020-06-22 21:32:50	@xq	dkibi, need help?
2020-06-22 21:36:46	dkibi	companion_cube: no for something built ontop of that it's super secret
2020-06-22 21:36:49	dkibi	:P
2020-06-22 21:37:10	dkibi	xq: I think a good night sleep might already help and I'm gonna get that now
2020-06-22 21:37:20	@xq	haha
2020-06-22 21:37:25	@xq	good night!
2020-06-22 21:37:27	companion_cube	ahah :D
2020-06-22 21:37:33	companion_cube	dkibi: don't you use haskell?
2020-06-22 21:38:38	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 21:38:47	thewetcrab	So sorry I keep getting disconected this evening,
2020-06-22 21:38:58	thewetcrab	did you share your story with us companion_cube?
2020-06-22 21:40:48	companion_cube	ahah my story is that I'm older, is all :D
2020-06-22 21:40:52	companion_cube	life gets busier
2020-06-22 21:40:57	@xq	older than? :D
2020-06-22 21:41:40	thewetcrab	companion_cube so do you have an interest in linux and or self hosting?
2020-06-22 21:41:48	thewetcrab	Or is it more of a general interest in computing?
2020-06-22 21:42:28		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 21:46:57	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 21:47:04	thewetcrab	I got disconnected again,
2020-06-22 21:47:10	thewetcrab	did I miss your reply companion_cube?
2020-06-22 21:47:30	companion_cube	ah well, I have a VPS already
2020-06-22 21:47:39	thewetcrab	I think I have very high ping tonight and a very slow internet speed, I wonder if this is what is causing me to disconnect all the time,
2020-06-22 21:47:44	companion_cube	gave up on email hosting a few years ago, too annoying
2020-06-22 21:47:54	companion_cube	thewetcrab: may I suggest you put a tmux on some tilde? ;)
2020-06-22 21:48:04	thewetcrab	in fact it even takes about 10 seconds for the message to appear, after hitting return .....
2020-06-22 21:48:22	thewetcrab	Ah did you see my link for email hosting companion_cube?
2020-06-22 21:48:35	thewetcrab	What do you run on your VPS?
2020-06-22 21:49:03	thewetcrab	companion_cube I am here to learn so please make as many suggestions for me as possible.
2020-06-22 21:49:04	companion_cube	I run debian
2020-06-22 21:49:22	thewetcrab	I am on windows 10 tonight, so not sure if I can run tmux on here?
2020-06-22 21:49:37	companion_cube	a pretty basic debian testing, really, with a few IRC bots, my tmux+weechat for IRC, and a syncthing
2020-06-22 21:49:49	companion_cube	hmm maybe on WSL?
2020-06-22 21:49:57	makeworld	Idk if anyone uses gemlikes lol, but I just made a patch release that makes sure pluses are escaped. I also added an example robots.txt to the README, so make sure you add that!
2020-06-22 21:50:31	makeworld	Binaries being uploaded now
2020-06-22 21:51:55	thewetcrab	what's WSL?
2020-06-22 21:52:18	thewetcrab	is gemlikes a geminiserver?
2020-06-22 21:52:24	companion_cube	windows sub-linux or something like that
2020-06-22 21:52:49	kayw	yeep
2020-06-22 21:52:59	companion_cube	https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/wsl2-index
2020-06-22 21:53:05	kayw	its basically native Linux on Windows 10
2020-06-22 21:53:10	makeworld	thewetcrab: It's a comment and liking system for Gemini, see https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemlikes
2020-06-22 21:53:11	kayw	im using it now
2020-06-22 21:53:31	kayw	https://i.salejandro.me/VMJmLf.png works great for ssh-ing into my vps to use weechat
2020-06-22 21:53:39	thewetcrab	Oh nice! Hopefully comments will stay useful on gemini and not be come toxic like https://
2020-06-22 21:53:58	companion_cube	a bit of a wide statement :p
2020-06-22 21:54:01	companion_cube	blanket*
2020-06-22 21:54:26	thewetcrab	hmm yes, sorry you are right!
2020-06-22 21:54:37	thewetcrab	You get what I mean though (?)
2020-06-22 21:54:48	makeworld	Yeah we'll have to see. So far I'm the only who uses it I think, and I know not everyone likes comments. I find them good sometimes, and it's more of a demo system than anything
2020-06-22 21:54:52	makeworld	But it works!
2020-06-22 21:55:08	thewetcrab	Oh it includes 'likes' too. totally not my think. I do think likes are somewhat toxic.
2020-06-22 21:55:28	makeworld	Yeah, I don't totally disagree
2020-06-22 21:55:36	makeworld	Maybe I'll add a way to disable them
2020-06-22 21:56:02	thewetcrab	Well, I don't want to take away from your achievement, congratulations for getting it working. And although it's not my kind of thing I am certain there will be lots of people who will like it.
2020-06-22 21:56:24	makeworld	Yeah we'll see. Not a big deal to me either way, but it was cool to make
2020-06-22 21:56:28	thewetcrab	I miss read your comment as first as 'I totally disagree', but please to see I miss-read it.
2020-06-22 21:57:04	thewetcrab	do you run a gemini server at the moment makeworld?
2020-06-22 21:57:16	makeworld	I do, I'm at gemini://makeworld.gq
2020-06-22 21:57:39	makeworld	Here, I made this issue about disabling likes if you want to subscribe to it: https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemlikes/issues/5
2020-06-22 21:57:44	thewetcrab	I need to find a gemini browser for my win10 machine.
2020-06-22 21:57:47	makeworld	Do you have a server or user account somewhere?
2020-06-22 21:57:49	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 21:58:11	makeworld	Oh, use Geminaut. It looks great
2020-06-22 21:58:12	thewetcrab	Unfortunatley now I don't have one right now so I can't take a look at your gemini page :(
2020-06-22 21:59:01	thewetcrab	I started installing JetForce server a couple of days ago, but the install threw up and error and I am not competent / knowledgeable enough to understand what the error means or how to fix it :(
2020-06-22 21:59:11	xj9	there's a couple of web viewers out there
2020-06-22 21:59:27	thewetcrab	I am currently running a internal gopher server at the moment. I am building my pages, but I hope to eventually make it public :)
2020-06-22 21:59:37	xj9	neat
2020-06-22 21:59:38	thewetcrab	Ah can you link me to the web viewers please?
2020-06-22 21:59:50	makeworld	portal.mozz.us
2020-06-22 22:00:04	makeworld	thewetcrab: https://www.marmaladefoo.com/pages/geminaut
2020-06-22 22:00:12	makeworld	There's a nice Windows browser for you, just use that
2020-06-22 22:00:25	makeworld	But the portal I linked above also works
2020-06-22 22:00:34	makeworld	I can help with your jetforce error if you want
2020-06-22 22:08:36	thewetcrab	thank you makeworld I appreciate your help!
2020-06-22 22:08:47	thewetcrab	I will see if I can log in now and get the error again,
2020-06-22 22:08:52	thewetcrab	give me a minute or two please.
2020-06-22 22:09:00	thewetcrab	The error is long is there somewhere I should paste it to?
2020-06-22 22:09:20	makeworld	pastebin.com or any other paste service is good
2020-06-22 22:09:31	makeworld	But update your server first before trying again
2020-06-22 22:09:40	makeworld	pip3 install -U jetforce
2020-06-22 22:10:50	thewetcrab	This is the first error that I get
2020-06-22 22:10:51	thewetcrab	~/jetforce# sudo python setup.py install
2020-06-22 22:10:51	thewetcrab	Traceback (most recent call last):
2020-06-22 22:10:51	thewetcrab	  File "setup.py", line 3, in <module>
2020-06-22 22:10:51	thewetcrab	    import setuptools
2020-06-22 22:10:51	thewetcrab	ImportError: No module named setuptools
2020-06-22 22:11:02	thewetcrab	Which i think means I need to install supertools?
2020-06-22 22:11:21	thewetcrab	So I run this ....
2020-06-22 22:11:22	thewetcrab	sudo pip3 install setuptools
2020-06-22 22:12:33	thewetcrab	That gives me this output .....
2020-06-22 22:12:33	thewetcrab	Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in /usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages
2020-06-22 22:12:37	thewetcrab	hmmm
2020-06-22 22:13:05	thewetcrab	running this now as you said ...
2020-06-22 22:13:06	thewetcrab	pip3 install -U jetforce
2020-06-22 22:13:29	thewetcrab	This outputs some writing in red ....
2020-06-22 22:13:30	thewetcrab	Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement jetforce (from versions: )
2020-06-22 22:13:30	thewetcrab	No matching distribution found for jetforce
2020-06-22 22:16:30	makeworld	What are you installing this one, what system?
2020-06-22 22:16:39	thewetcrab	just browsing your gemini site now makeworld :)
2020-06-22 22:16:50	makeworld	Enjoy!
2020-06-22 22:16:51	thewetcrab	I am installing it on an ornage pi zero, running armbian .....
2020-06-22 22:16:55	makeworld	Okay
2020-06-22 22:16:59	thewetcrab	I see you kept it as text only,
2020-06-22 22:17:01	makeworld	So make sure you use Python3
2020-06-22 22:17:45	makeworld	Try sudo python3 -m pip install -U jetforce
2020-06-22 22:17:51	makeworld	Wdym text only?
2020-06-22 22:18:14	thewetcrab	I am cd-ed in to jetforce, is that OK>
2020-06-22 22:18:26	thewetcrab	that gives me this output
2020-06-22 22:18:27	thewetcrab	Collecting jetforce
2020-06-22 22:18:27	thewetcrab	  Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement jetforce (from versions: )
2020-06-22 22:18:27	thewetcrab	No matching distribution found for jetforce
2020-06-22 22:18:27	thewetcrab	root@pihole:~/jetforce#  python3 -m pip install -U jetforce
2020-06-22 22:18:27	thewetcrab	Collecting jetforce
2020-06-22 22:18:27	thewetcrab	  Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement jetforce (from versions: )
2020-06-22 22:18:27	thewetcrab	No matching distribution found for jetforce
2020-06-22 22:19:06		plugd has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-22 22:19:23	thewetcrab	I love that gopher sites and gemini sites are more like archives / curated information that other people have found interesting or useful.
2020-06-22 22:20:42	krixano	Hm... I also get an error on raspbian
2020-06-22 22:21:03	thewetcrab	thanks for checking krixano
2020-06-22 22:21:10	krixano	When it tries to build "twisted"
2020-06-22 22:21:19	thewetcrab	Is there a reason why we are getting this error?
2020-06-22 22:21:33	thewetcrab	I'm guessing this doesn't happen on other linux distros.
2020-06-22 22:21:41	makeworld	Hmm what's your Python version
2020-06-22 22:21:53	krixano	I tested on my x64 computer, and it works just fine
2020-06-22 22:21:59	thewetcrab	Raspbian and Armbian I believe are forks of Debian, but does this error happen on Debian too?
2020-06-22 22:22:02	makeworld	Jetforce needs Python 3.7 or newer
2020-06-22 22:22:11	thewetcrab	How do I check my python version please makeworld?
2020-06-22 22:22:25	krixano	I'm on 3.7.3
2020-06-22 22:22:29	krixano	I don't think it's that
2020-06-22 22:22:38	krixano	It couldn't build a dependency, called "twisted"
2020-06-22 22:22:39	makeworld	Huh
2020-06-22 22:22:46	makeworld	thewetcrab: python3 --version
2020-06-22 22:22:48	krixano	Let me check the error really quickly
2020-06-22 22:22:55	makeworld	Ok, I gtg now
2020-06-22 22:23:01	thewetcrab	I am on ....
2020-06-22 22:23:02	makeworld	Maybe I can help with this later
2020-06-22 22:23:02	thewetcrab	Python 3.5.3
2020-06-22 22:23:08	makeworld	Ah, there's your problem
2020-06-22 22:23:10	thewetcrab	OK no worries I will try catch you tomorrow makeworld
2020-06-22 22:23:19	thewetcrab	Will you be around on here tomorrow?
2020-06-22 22:23:22	makeworld	K gtg, but you need to find a way to update your Python
2020-06-22 22:23:25	krixano	Well, there's *one* of the problems
2020-06-22 22:23:27	makeworld	Yep, and later tonight too
2020-06-22 22:23:29	thewetcrab	ha ha thanks,
2020-06-22 22:23:30	makeworld	K bye
2020-06-22 22:23:32	thewetcrab	I have to go now.
2020-06-22 22:23:49	thewetcrab	I'll be back in around 10 hours or so.
2020-06-22 22:23:54	thewetcrab	Or same time tomorrow evening.
2020-06-22 22:23:58	CommunistWolf	searching for hugo gemini support, I'm asked: Did you mean: yugioh gemini support
2020-06-22 22:24:02	CommunistWolf	no, no i did not
2020-06-22 22:24:10	thewetcrab	Hope to catch up with you and get this fixed, as I would love to join gemini space :)
2020-06-22 22:24:15	thewetcrab	Speak tomorrow :)
2020-06-22 22:24:25	thewetcrab	Thank you for your help.
2020-06-22 22:24:27	thewetcrab	Bye
2020-06-22 22:24:30	⚡	thewetcrab waves bye
2020-06-22 22:25:11		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 22:25:30	krixano	This is the error I get while trying to build the twisted dep on raspbian: src/twisted/test/raiser.c:4:10: fatal error: Python.h: No such file or directory
2020-06-22 22:26:30	krixano	I'm guessing I need libpython3-dev? idk...
2020-06-22 22:31:52	krixano	Ok, yeah, that's what I needed
2020-06-22 22:32:05	@tomasino	yugioh should have gemini support
2020-06-22 22:32:57		xfnw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-22 22:33:00	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-22 22:36:13	@xq	okay, markdown rendering starts to take shape :)
2020-06-22 22:36:19	@xq	enough for today, gn8 ya'll
2020-06-22 22:37:17	@tomasino	night
2020-06-22 23:15:25	~tiwesdaeg	neight
2020-06-22 23:15:58	~tiwesdaeg	it makes more sense when you think of it as german
2020-06-22 23:16:30	~tiwesdaeg	guten nacht = good night and 8 = acht
2020-06-22 23:18:11	makeworld	New release of gemget has a whopping 42 binaries
2020-06-22 23:19:50	makeworld	Could've had more, but I figured no one uses solaris, aix, illumos
2020-06-22 23:25:40	makeworld	Although who uses Dragonfly BSD for that matter
2020-06-22 23:39:13	xj9	I was an illumos user until joyent shut down their public cloud
2020-06-22 23:39:49	xj9	I can do my own ports and upstream the patches though
2020-06-22 23:40:18	xj9	happens a lot on alpine too lol just my life I guess
2020-06-22 23:41:20	makeworld	I can build it for you if you'll actually use it lol
2020-06-23 00:05:05	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 00:11:07	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: I did like less than a year ago
2020-06-23 00:51:19	makeworld	Oh why>
2020-06-23 00:51:23	makeworld	*?
2020-06-23 00:51:26	makeworld	I don't know much about it
2020-06-23 01:32:22	~tiwesdaeg	for fun
2020-06-23 01:32:33	~tiwesdaeg	tilde.pink was using it originally
2020-06-23 01:32:46	~tiwesdaeg	it forked from freebsd back in the early 2000s
2020-06-23 01:36:08	yeti	@end of freebsd4 time iirc
2020-06-23 02:21:01	makeworld	Ah yeah I saw that on the wiki page
2020-06-23 02:21:17	makeworld	Trying different OSes is not my idea of fun haha, I never got into that
2020-06-23 02:32:01	coleman	I have downloaded the Deedum Gemini app for Android. It is cool and good.
2020-06-23 02:40:59	makeworld	I'm happy to have an Android app, but I hope more styling is added. Also the font size is sorta large
2020-06-23 02:43:10	coleman	i agree
2020-06-23 03:41:35		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-23 06:27:23		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-23 06:31:06	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 06:31:07	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-06-23 07:23:16	@xq	heyhoh
2020-06-23 07:47:29		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-23 07:52:28	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 07:56:50		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-23 08:06:44	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 08:10:51	dkibi	heyo
2020-06-23 08:15:34		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-23 08:18:23	@xq	markdown rendering is getting better and better :)
2020-06-23 08:18:45	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 08:24:16	dkibi	one problem with the "I go to bed" plan yesterday is that I first have to do work before continuing debugging my problem xD
2020-06-23 08:24:31	@xq	:D
2020-06-23 08:24:45	@xq	i am working on Kristall on my commute
2020-06-23 08:34:04	dkibi	still working from home
2020-06-23 08:34:18	@xq	ah
2020-06-23 08:34:29	@xq	yeah, i'm kinda happy that i can work from work again
2020-06-23 08:34:45	@xq	makes stuff like "debugging" easier
2020-06-23 08:35:40	dkibi	not much difference for me (sitting in front of a computer writing code), but I miss the social interactions
2020-06-23 08:35:47	login	can a mathematician always work from home forever?
2020-06-23 08:36:21	dkibi	the office is open, but heavily restricted, hence the social interactions don't happen anyway
2020-06-23 08:36:58	dkibi	login: afaik modern mathematic builds strongly on collaboration which is somewhat limited when working from home
2020-06-23 08:37:07	@xq	yeah, for pure code it's not much of a difference
2020-06-23 08:37:10	@xq	but i'm working with hardware
2020-06-23 08:38:10	@xq	hmm
2020-06-23 08:38:17	⚡	xq is tempted to include the mercury protocol in kristall as well
2020-06-23 09:24:33	@julienxx	hello
2020-06-23 09:25:39	@xq	hey julienxx
2020-06-23 09:26:35	@julienxx	what's up?
2020-06-23 09:27:48	@xq	work work
2020-06-23 09:28:47	@julienxx	same :/ don't have a lot of time for fun stuff these days
2020-06-23 09:31:13	@xq	sad :(
2020-06-23 09:31:25	@xq	How's Castor development going on?
2020-06-23 09:34:32	krixano	I honestly don't care for the mercury protocol I don't think, but let me look at it again...
2020-06-23 09:34:36	@julienxx	I must admit I feel a bit discouraged by the awesome work you make with kristall, too much to catch up :D
2020-06-23 09:35:44	@julienxx	but I'll get back to it once I have some free time, I'm mostly focused on my plan 9 things these days
2020-06-23 09:35:51	@xq	don#t see it as a discouragement, but as inspiration
2020-06-23 09:35:59	krixano	One thing I don't like about the mercury protocol is no lang parameter
2020-06-23 09:36:01	@xq	yeah, the P9 stuff is cool as well
2020-06-23 09:36:45	@julienxx	xq: sure and a great one!
2020-06-23 09:37:06	@xq	julienxx: it was you that got me working on Kristall in the first place
2020-06-23 09:37:11	krixano	Also, the text/gemini stripped back syntax of just links and plain text is, meh. Once you get link syntax in there, then is it really *that* much easier to get rid of the other things?
2020-06-23 09:37:43	@julienxx	it was mostly an experiment for me to play with GTK and Rust but those two are not a great mix regarding multithreading
2020-06-23 09:38:47	@xq	krixano: yes, it is still easier to get rid of the rest
2020-06-23 09:38:59	krixano	I don't think that's true
2020-06-23 09:39:00	@xq	UI and multithreading isn't a great mix in the first place
2020-06-23 09:39:11	@julienxx	GTK is not great at it, or more precisely it seems I'd have to do weird stuff to make it comply with Rust safety model
2020-06-23 09:39:12	@xq	links are just "differently colored text" :D
2020-06-23 09:39:21	@xq	Kristall is fully single-threaded atm
2020-06-23 09:39:30	krixano	Right.... and what are bullets?
2020-06-23 09:39:44	@xq	can be ignored in a text interface
2020-06-23 09:39:50	krixano	Exactly
2020-06-23 09:39:51	@xq	same for headings
2020-06-23 09:40:19	@xq	the point about simplicity is: "why doing something if not doing something is already sufficient"
2020-06-23 09:40:26	@xq	and that is true for everything except links
2020-06-23 09:40:43	krixano	Because allowing for the optional ability to do something is useful
2020-06-23 09:40:45	@xq	as links are interactive and will have create bad user experience if not handled by a client
2020-06-23 09:40:51	krixano	But also, semantics is important.
2020-06-23 09:40:51	@xq	which isn't true for everything else
2020-06-23 09:41:06	@xq	<krixano> But also, semantics is important.
2020-06-23 09:41:15	@xq	yes, but you can define semantics formally or informally
2020-06-23 09:42:17	@xq	in this case, the informally defined semantics is fully sufficient
2020-06-23 09:42:39	krixano	So like, the mercury spec would only really need to define the semantics, and allow for browsers to display things as they wish. This would even allow for completely ignoring headers and bullets. But it also allows for clients to do things with them that shouldn't be considered "unexpected"
2020-06-23 09:45:21	@xq	but ask yourself the question: is that necessary or just a nice-to-have?
2020-06-23 09:45:31	@xq	the design goal of mercury was "super-stripped down gemini"
2020-06-23 09:46:05	krixano	It's necessary, because clients that do things to bullets and heading would otherwise be out-of-spec
2020-06-23 09:46:35	krixano	Also, standardizing on semantics is pretty important for communication, otherwise people have no idea what you're talking about.
2020-06-23 09:46:49	@xq	no, they wont
2020-06-23 09:46:56	@xq	on both
2020-06-23 09:47:02	@xq	see gopher
2020-06-23 09:47:13	@xq	there isn't a spec for document contents
2020-06-23 09:47:26	krixano	Ah, you mean all the gopher clients that don't actually do the things I'm talking about?
2020-06-23 09:47:27	@xq	and it#s still perfectly possible to browser gopherspace without everything exploding
2020-06-23 09:47:38	@xq	the point is:
2020-06-23 09:47:43	@xq	if a client choses to do funky stuff
2020-06-23 09:47:49	krixano	Yes, there *is* a spec for document contents... gophermaps.
2020-06-23 09:48:00	krixano	gophermaps are documents
2020-06-23 09:50:35	@xq	gophermaps is the only one
2020-06-23 09:50:48	@xq	the rest is "text"
2020-06-23 09:50:54	krixano	Correct.
2020-06-23 09:50:57	@xq	(which was what i meant with "document")
2020-06-23 09:51:08	@xq	what you want to do is prevent clients from doing stuff
2020-06-23 09:51:23	@xq	een Kristall allows you to do out-of-spec stuff
2020-06-23 09:51:28	krixano	Is that a question? No... that's not what I want to do
2020-06-23 09:51:54	@xq	that's what i've understood ;)
2020-06-23 09:52:03	@xq	because no spec → clients can do what they want
2020-06-23 09:52:07	@xq	to the document
2020-06-23 09:52:13	krixano	It can't be, when I've explicitly stated the exact opposite
2020-06-23 09:52:27	krixano	>  But it also allows for clients to do things with them that shouldn't be considered "unexpected"
2020-06-23 09:52:32	@xq	yes, and that's what i'm talking about ;)
2020-06-23 09:52:42	@xq	if a client does something "unexpected", that may be wanted
2020-06-23 09:52:56	krixano	Exactly! And the spec should *allow* for that
2020-06-23 09:53:01	@xq	highlighting *bold* and _underlined_ isn't in the gemini spec, still Kristall allows you to emphasise those things in a text
2020-06-23 09:53:12	@xq	and the mercury spec allows that
2020-06-23 09:53:29	@xq	it only tells you: "links are in the format of gemini, the rest is considered text"
2020-06-23 09:53:38	@xq	and if people find a informal format spec
2020-06-23 09:53:40	krixano	Well... do you remember the email thread about requiring space after bullet line?
2020-06-23 09:53:56	@xq	yeah, sure
2020-06-23 09:54:00	@xq	so? ;)
2020-06-23 09:54:13	krixano	Do you have an eye twitch or something?
2020-06-23 09:54:31	@xq	something being reasonable doesn't mean that it's *necessary*
2020-06-23 09:56:29	krixano	The spec has to be modified to make sure clients could do the things they wanted to be able to do. That's all I'm saying
2020-06-23 09:57:13	krixano	And I'm big on *explicitness*... so I'd rather a spec explicitly state that text can be rendered any which way is preferred rather than saying "the rest is text", because that implies it will be rendered exactly as text.
2020-06-23 09:57:52	@xq	i think we just have different views on the world
2020-06-23 09:59:30	krixano	What I would like, tbh, is just gemini without tls, because I find the text/gemini format useful. I mean, if you want a more stripped back version, then you can make a different format, imo
2020-06-23 09:59:49	krixano	Like, text/mercury
2020-06-23 10:00:55	@julienxx	encryption is a big plus for me, tls or something else
2020-06-23 10:01:11	@julienxx	tls is available for every language so that's a plus
2020-06-23 10:02:42	styan	Apparently TLS is not supported by plan9port.
2020-06-23 10:02:51	krixano	But tls isn't available for older pubnix systems, like TOPS-20, Multics, etc.
2020-06-23 10:03:14	krixano	And that's mainly why I would like gemini without tls.
2020-06-23 10:04:53	paper	almost all gemini advantages for me would not be possible without tls or some other alternative - client certs, tofu, added security...
2020-06-23 10:06:52	krixano	I think text/gemini, charset, and lang are good enough improvements over gopher that they could be their own protocol. I'm mostly just thinking about older systems that don't have tls
2020-06-23 10:09:12	CommunistWolf	mm, tls is absolutely necessary para mi
2020-06-23 10:09:57	CommunistWolf	or rather, robust encryption is
2020-06-23 10:10:57	@julienxx	yeah gemimi is not suitable for old systems
2020-06-23 10:11:49	@julienxx	styan: it's supported by 9front
2020-06-23 10:14:45	⚡	styan is just annoyed at learning that *after* excitedly writing stuff
2020-06-23 10:20:15	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200527-mercury-hells-no.gmi
2020-06-23 10:20:22	@tomasino	I stand by this
2020-06-23 10:25:19	@tomasino	There were other responses to solderpunk's post when he made it in a similar vein. It didn't have more than a blip on the ML
2020-06-23 10:25:22	dkibi	I like it as a thought experiment, but if some people move towards this it would result in even less (original) content
2020-06-23 10:26:56	@tomasino	I wish he hadn't written about it. It's going to linger out there and people will keep rediscovering it and want to chop up gemini, or use it to justify one step further and call it apollo
2020-06-23 10:27:34	krixano	I think I sorta wish gemini didn't *require* tls, tbh
2020-06-23 10:28:32	@tomasino	More than any other thing, that's the part that created Gemini to begin with
2020-06-23 10:28:48	@tomasino	A growing sentiment the gopher needed tls
2020-06-23 10:30:22	krixano	Yeah, I mean... the tls stuff is *amazing*, but I'd also like to be able to view open non-certificate gemini content on systems without tls.
2020-06-23 10:30:37	dkibi	tomasino: I got the impression that the push to add features to gemini is much stronger than to get rid of features.
2020-06-23 10:30:57	@tomasino	There's a camp in both
2020-06-23 10:31:18	@tomasino	The ML has a more vocal "add" group
2020-06-23 10:31:47	dkibi	in HTTP world there is certainly a (not very loud) discussion about this. esp. with wikipedia moving to tls. people argue that making it readable when you can't do tls (e.g. when it's blocked) is more important than protecting the content
2020-06-23 10:31:55	dkibi	I think that's a valid argumen
2020-06-23 10:35:41	dkibi	(one such space is ham radio btw.)
2020-06-23 10:36:28	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 10:37:30	@julienxx	krixano: you still can expose your gemini content on gopher with some tools or scripting for older systems. There is Agena for example https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/agena
2020-06-23 10:37:30	kensanata	Oh... Thank you for web.tilde.chat! The office has stricter firewall rules, now.
2020-06-23 10:38:26	kensanata	Hard to believe that there are 71 users on this channel.
2020-06-23 10:38:48	@tomasino	It's popular for sure
2020-06-23 10:44:11	kensanata	I still have the urge to write a good Wikipedia wikitext to plain text converter.
2020-06-23 10:44:19	kensanata	to Gemini! converter...
2020-06-23 11:18:43	@xq	<krixano> I'm mostly just thinking about older systems that don't have tls
2020-06-23 11:18:48	@xq	TLS is a user-space concept
2020-06-23 11:19:06	@xq	it does not depend on any OS facilities at all, but is a pure "data conversion"
2020-06-23 11:19:45	krixano	Right.. but you still have to program a tls lib for these older systems
2020-06-23 11:20:52	krixano	Afaik, there's no tls lib for TOPS-20, for example. Heck, there's barely TCP/IP, lol.... only if you set it up correct (I think the twenex system uses DEC instead of TCP/IP, but tfurrows' tops-20 system uses TCP/IP)
2020-06-23 11:21:07	@xq	krixano: bearssl will work
2020-06-23 11:21:14	@xq	it's pure C99, no OS dependencies
2020-06-23 11:21:19	@xq	if you don't have C, good luck
2020-06-23 11:21:29	krixano	Well, there's no C99, only C89
2020-06-23 11:21:49	@xq	what CPU arch?
2020-06-23 11:22:37	krixano	I believe it's the PDP-10
2020-06-23 11:22:43	@xq	ah
2020-06-23 11:23:10	krixano	Which is also a 36-bit system too
2020-06-23 11:23:23	@xq	so?
2020-06-23 11:23:36	@xq	the bitness only defines efficiency, not computing power
2020-06-23 11:23:49	krixano	So... UTF-8 has to be translated. Luckilly there's already a thing for that.
2020-06-23 11:24:30	@xq	 it's one thing to use these old machines, it's another thing to port modern software to those
2020-06-23 11:24:52	krixano	That's precisely my whole point, lol
2020-06-23 11:25:06	@xq	so, we differ in view again
2020-06-23 11:25:21	@xq	i don't think it's reasonable to port modern internet stuff to those machines
2020-06-23 11:25:33	@xq	but maybe create solutions that allow interfacing
2020-06-23 11:25:43	krixano	I don't know what you're even talking about. You're the one who suggested to try to port tls to the older systems
2020-06-23 11:25:44	@xq	for example, just make a untls proxy
2020-06-23 11:25:53	@xq	i said it's possible
2020-06-23 11:25:57	@xq	i didn't say it's reasonable
2020-06-23 11:26:09	krixano	Right, and neither did I
2020-06-23 11:26:23	@xq	but there's a lot of funky stuff that isn't reasonable
2020-06-23 11:26:27	krixano	In fact, I said the opposite, that having a non-tls gemini would be useful for precisely this reason
2020-06-23 11:28:30	krixano	So, don't bring up something contrary to what I say and then say I'm saying the same thing as you after you all of a sudden go against everything you just suggested, lmao
2020-06-23 11:32:23	login	so, notify that you stand corrected, krixano?
2020-06-23 11:32:48	krixano	What was I wrong about login?
2020-06-23 11:33:11	login	not you, but the person you told not to switch opinions surrepticiously
2020-06-23 11:33:49	login	*surreptitiously
2020-06-23 11:34:29	krixano	Standing corrected means you acknowledge the correction that someone else made.
2020-06-23 11:48:29	dkibi	yeah I don't think many people write portable C
2020-06-23 11:48:54	dkibi	it's so easy to rely on platform specifics
2020-06-23 11:49:19	`epochbot	(could do text/gophermap over http if you wanted)
2020-06-23 11:49:34	login	that points to the C standard having to be updated to include some platform specifics
2020-06-23 11:50:10	login	http, while meant for hypertext, could be good for gopher too
2020-06-23 11:50:29	login	the only standard should be the content encoding
2020-06-23 11:50:58	krixano	There is a gopher client for TOPS-20, so at least we have that.
2020-06-23 11:51:34	`epochbot	a gophermap (or text/gemini) is just a hypertext format, right?
2020-06-23 11:52:03	`epochbot	don't /have/ to send documents of that type over only their native protocols
2020-06-23 11:52:39	@xq	`epochbot: true
2020-06-23 11:52:49	@xq	is text/x-gophermap a defined mime?
2020-06-23 11:53:19	`epochbot	if you configure your computer to have it defined ;)
2020-06-23 11:53:23	krixano	I guess technically gophermap and text/gemini are hypertext. Gophermaps are for the gopher menus. So if there's no gophermap file, then that's just autogenerated by the server. Gophermap isn't a verry good format, imo
2020-06-23 11:53:53	@xq	it's still a format
2020-06-23 11:53:57	krixano	Also, yeah, you can serve text/gemini over any protocol
2020-06-23 11:54:08	@xq	i really need to start my client torture server :D
2020-06-23 11:54:24	kensanata	I've described Gopher as hypertext on the document level; Gemini as hypertext on the paragraph level; HTML as hypertext on the word level...
2020-06-23 11:54:44	kensanata	It's just different granularity of what you can link, but link you can.
2020-06-23 11:54:44	krixano	Hm... interesting
2020-06-23 11:54:47	krixano	That makes sense
2020-06-23 11:56:22	`epochbot	would something that made URLs in plain-text be a hypertextifier?
2020-06-23 11:56:27	`epochbot	hyperfier*?
2020-06-23 11:56:38	`epochbot	made URLs clickable*
2020-06-23 11:58:34	`epochbot	here's something that might be neat https://gist.github.com/egmontkob/eb114294efbcd5adb1944c9f3cb5feda
2020-06-23 11:58:47	kensanata	Sure. You basically add them to the one big hypertext in the sky, the web
2020-06-23 11:58:54	`epochbot	(for anyone making a terminal-based hypertext viewer?)
2020-06-23 11:59:39	kensanata	I use Tilix and therefore I have this automatically...
2020-06-23 11:59:43	kensanata	Or Emacs, of course.
2020-06-23 12:00:45	kensanata	My problem is more: what if I'm looking at a gemini link in some other tool and click on it: how to I start a new terminal window, with my preferred gemini client, browsing said link?
2020-06-23 12:01:47	`epochbot	I know of a way to do that. I think.
2020-06-23 12:02:55	`epochbot	I made a .desktop file that passes all otherwise unhandled URIs to a script that's overly complicated but
2020-06-23 12:03:22	`epochbot	you could just pass it directly to a script that just calls: x-terminam-emulator -e gemini-client "$1"
2020-06-23 12:03:34	`epochbot	x-terminal-emulator*
2020-06-23 12:04:09	`epochbot	not sure which other tools you might mean, but firefox will look through .desktop files
2020-06-23 12:04:53	`epochbot	which I place into ~/.local/share/applications/, but that's pointed to by XDG_DATA_DIRS I think
2020-06-23 12:04:59	`epochbot	yeah
2020-06-23 12:05:14	`epochbot	so, you could pick any dir you want I guess
2020-06-23 12:17:11	~tiwesdaeg	heyo
2020-06-23 12:17:54	@julienxx	hey tiwesdaeg
2020-06-23 12:18:18	~tiwesdaeg	another glorious gemini day
2020-06-23 12:18:21	kensanata	`epochbot: oh, cool. Must try this!
2020-06-23 12:21:49	Sario528	So I discovered an issue. There's so much progress being made in gemini-verse that I'm having trouble keeping up with it all.
2020-06-23 12:22:29	Sario528	Of course, I probably shouldn't be trying to keep up with everything, but that's my nature
2020-06-23 12:24:21	`epochbot	yeah. way to much.
2020-06-23 12:24:32	⚡	`epochbot checks unread messages from mailing list
2020-06-23 12:25:32	`epochbot	900 unread or something
2020-06-23 12:25:50	Sario528	Jeez
2020-06-23 12:26:11	`epochbot	some of that might be spam that got mixed in
2020-06-23 12:26:23	`epochbot	maybe like, 50
2020-06-23 12:34:53	~tiwesdaeg	there are so many I just never click on
2020-06-23 12:35:18	~tiwesdaeg	I try to at least read each new [ANN] message
2020-06-23 12:39:28	@tomasino	[ANN] tiwesdaeg is rad
2020-06-23 12:42:43	@julienxx	tomasino: hope you're safe regarding the earthquakes in Island
2020-06-23 12:42:57	@tomasino	thanks! we're headed directly into the epicenter in 1 week
2020-06-23 12:43:03	@tomasino	so..., um... i hope it's settled by then
2020-06-23 12:43:32	@julienxx	does it happen often usually?
2020-06-23 12:43:43	@tomasino	nope
2020-06-23 12:44:10	@tomasino	it's a very seizmically active area, but that's building up to a big quake soon
2020-06-23 12:44:11	~tiwesdaeg	I like how rad is back in fashion
2020-06-23 12:44:20	@tomasino	estimates here are likely a 7.0+ this week
2020-06-23 12:44:31	@julienxx	damn
2020-06-23 12:44:32	@tomasino	it shouldn't set off any volcanos in the area, though
2020-06-23 12:44:51	@tomasino	there will be some rock slides, but the biggest danger is to the coasts when it triggers a tidal wave
2020-06-23 12:45:09	@tomasino	our family trip up north is next tues-sat
2020-06-23 12:45:24	@tomasino	and we'll be doing some whale watching while we're there. awesome timing
2020-06-23 12:45:41	~tiwesdaeg	what type of whales?
2020-06-23 12:45:47	@julienxx	surfing whales on tidal waves, rad!
2020-06-23 12:45:47	~tiwesdaeg	right whales?
2020-06-23 12:46:18	~tiwesdaeg	does Iceland have any tidewater glaciers?
2020-06-23 12:46:32	@tomasino	yep
2020-06-23 12:46:46	@tomasino	there are 2, i think
2020-06-23 12:47:04	@tomasino	minke, blue, humpback
2020-06-23 12:50:08	~tiwesdaeg	those are fun to see by boat
2020-06-23 12:50:32	⚡	tiwesdaeg misses Alaska
2020-06-23 12:53:16	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 13:33:38	@xq	tomasino: thanks for watering my plant
2020-06-23 13:33:40	ℹ 	`epochbot is now known as derpface
2020-06-23 13:33:47	ℹ 	derpface is now known as epoch
2020-06-23 13:33:55	@tomasino	my pleasure
2020-06-23 13:34:03	⚡	tomasino also misses alaska
2020-06-23 13:35:30	⚡	xq has never seen a whale
2020-06-23 13:35:56	@tomasino	they're pretty awesome
2020-06-23 13:58:46	@xq	i can imagine
2020-06-23 13:59:52	kensanata	I went whale watching and that one moment I switched sides and got a little seasick it jumped out of the water and I missed it.
2020-06-23 14:00:26	kensanata	That single moment of disappointment in my ability to move gracefully around a boat probably cost me around $100.
2020-06-23 14:07:32	@tomasino	haha
2020-06-23 14:07:36	@tomasino	that's horrible
2020-06-23 14:07:38	@tomasino	and a great story
2020-06-23 14:22:27	makeworld	The mercury post on the mailing list is too bad. TLS makes Gemini stand out, I like it for that
2020-06-23 14:23:00	companion_cube	stand out from Gopher, you mean?
2020-06-23 14:29:24	makeworld	Just in general, but that too yeah
2020-06-23 14:29:34	makeworld	Because it's mandatory
2020-06-23 14:30:28	companion_cube	I guess it makes it more real world, but less simple :p
2020-06-23 14:31:48	@xq	makeworld: i like both ideas. the stripped-down mercury is perfect for embedded stuff
2020-06-23 14:32:07	@xq	but having TLS in gemini and using it for more than just "yeah, that's the server i seek" is just awesome <3
2020-06-23 14:37:08	@julienxx	I still don't see the appeal of mercury compared to gopher which has already a lot of clients and servers. Simpler syntax?
2020-06-23 14:37:55	makeworld	Mercury might be good for embedded stuff yeah, but I think usage that way will be rare, lots of embedded devices will just use custom tiny protocols. And I don't think Kristall will be embedded either
2020-06-23 14:38:31	@xq	julienxx: mercury provides precise content type information
2020-06-23 14:39:24	@julienxx	Ah yes that’s a good point
2020-06-23 14:41:18		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-23 14:42:59	@xq	gopher is just
2020-06-23 14:43:05	@xq	"lol, that's smething resembling an image file"
2020-06-23 14:44:44	@julienxx	that's enough for personal usage I guess, wouldn't you use something a little more efficient for embedded stuff like a binary protocol though?
2020-06-23 14:45:33	@xq	nah
2020-06-23 14:45:45	@xq	most embedded stuff uses HTTP+JSON nowadays *screams*
2020-06-23 14:46:02	@xq	but yeah, it's better to have highly compact binary protocols
2020-06-23 14:46:12	@xq	still, a header transfer like mercury is pretty nice
2020-06-23 14:46:20	@xq	because it makes stuff compatible
2020-06-23 14:46:27	companion_cube	if you have an embedded device you want binary protocols, right?
2020-06-23 14:47:03	@xq	it depends on the use case
2020-06-23 14:47:22	@xq	do you want to have a 1<->many connection or a many<->many connection
2020-06-23 14:48:27	@xq	we have mixed-mode protocol in our company
2020-06-23 14:48:31	@xq	most stuff is text based
2020-06-23 14:48:34	companion_cube	what kind of embedded stuff do you do?
2020-06-23 14:49:00	@xq	heater controls, industrial machine controls, ...
2020-06-23 14:49:40	@xq	for example, setting configuration values is done via a UDP text protocol
2020-06-23 15:09:54	kensanata	Before Gemini came around I was toying around with a simple text file server where the client was expected to follow links. https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2019-06-18_A_Simple_Text_Server and https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2019-06-19_A_Simple_Text_Client
2020-06-23 15:10:32	kensanata	I guess it was the worst of both worlds: line wrapping still unsolved, and no MIME types.
2020-06-23 15:22:10	epoch	I've been doing a 3D file format where you can follow links.
2020-06-23 15:22:57	epoch	but it is also a protocol kind of.
2020-06-23 15:27:46		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-23 15:45:35	@xq	epoch: tell me more!
2020-06-23 15:46:50	epoch	:)
2020-06-23 15:47:16	epoch	um, so. it is a line-based file format.
2020-06-23 15:47:32	epoch	or protocol
2020-06-23 15:47:34	epoch	or something
2020-06-23 15:48:29	epoch	the viewer gets input lines like: a-shape-group-name addshape 2 4  0 0 0  1 0 0  1 1 0  0 1 0
2020-06-23 15:48:37	epoch	to add a square of color "2"
2020-06-23 15:49:15	epoch	and "a-shape-group-name move  0 0 0"
2020-06-23 15:49:36	epoch	white-space is insignificant, I just use it to make groupings easier to read.
2020-06-23 15:49:50	epoch	(except for newline whitespace?)
2020-06-23 15:50:08	@xq	okay, so i can build, destroy and animate 3D shapes?
2020-06-23 15:50:18	epoch	yep
2020-06-23 15:50:25	epoch	and when you move the camera
2020-06-23 15:50:34	epoch	it outputs the same type of move commands to stdout
2020-06-23 15:50:51	epoch	and when you click on a shape, it outputs another line to stdout
2020-06-23 15:51:05	epoch	like "epoch action a-shape-group-name"
2020-06-23 15:51:39	epoch	and an example wrapper for it I use most of the time will notice group-names in the format of <group-name> and treat them as URIs to be launched
2020-06-23 15:51:58	@xq	interesting
2020-06-23 15:52:02	epoch	so, I have a network map that I can use to see BGP peerings
2020-06-23 15:52:06	@xq	is there a spec for that? *rofl*
2020-06-23 15:52:11	epoch	and then click on each ASN to launch a whois URI
2020-06-23 15:52:35	epoch	there is not.
2020-06-23 15:53:17	@xq	:D
2020-06-23 15:53:19	epoch	just a prototype
2020-06-23 15:53:34	⚡	epoch checks oldest commit in the repo
2020-06-23 15:53:37	@xq	it would be a funny thing to use the gemini streaming with such a 3D environment
2020-06-23 15:53:43	⚡	xq has stupid ideas
2020-06-23 15:53:54	epoch	I have a hackvr file, and it'd work
2020-06-23 15:54:10	epoch	I'd have to write a short handler script for hackvr+gemini://
2020-06-23 15:54:16	@xq	what's hackvr?
2020-06-23 15:54:24	epoch	oh, the thing I was just describing
2020-06-23 15:54:40	epoch	I was wanting to make something I could port gophervr into at one point
2020-06-23 15:55:14	epoch	gemini can do a continuous stream, but only in one direction.
2020-06-23 15:55:21	@xq	ah!
2020-06-23 15:55:44	epoch	the usual way I do hackvr server is to just have it keep a connection open over plain tcp or ssh
2020-06-23 15:55:50	@xq	hehe
2020-06-23 15:55:58	epoch	and then the actions can be sent back to a server-side program
2020-06-23 15:56:12	@xq	is it meant for actual VR interaction or just a "classic 3D application"?
2020-06-23 15:56:35	@xq	it would be kinda crazy to have some 3D "internet"
2020-06-23 15:56:36	epoch	the actual VR interaction will require me to get better VR hardware
2020-06-23 15:56:59	epoch	I /did/ build it with the ability to do split-screen from the get-go
2020-06-23 15:57:03	@xq	ah
2020-06-23 15:57:19	epoch	and it seems to work alright in a cheap phone-based headset
2020-06-23 15:57:36	epoch	which I was able to test because of an X11 server app I found for android
2020-06-23 15:57:56	@xq	haha WHAT?! :D
2020-06-23 15:57:58	@xq	i need that app
2020-06-23 15:58:17	epoch	https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=x.org.server&hl=en_US
2020-06-23 15:58:32	epoch	you can supposedly use the gyros in the phone as mouse controls
2020-06-23 15:58:36	epoch	but I don't have a phone with gyros
2020-06-23 15:58:43	@xq	NICE
2020-06-23 15:58:47	epoch	if I did, I'd have gotten that working
2020-06-23 15:58:50	@xq	yeah, i'm kinda spoiled
2020-06-23 15:58:55	@xq	i have a Oculus Quest at home
2020-06-23 15:58:58	@xq	it's love <3
2020-06-23 15:59:31	epoch	I got some walmart-brand headset from the clearance isle for $1
2020-06-23 16:00:11	@xq	i have some as well
2020-06-23 16:00:15	@xq	they're totaly okay to work with
2020-06-23 16:00:30	epoch	I made hackvr able to use /dev/input/event inputs from a computer so you can only use X11 for display if you want
2020-06-23 16:00:52	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 16:01:11	epoch	and at one point I had framebuffer support working
2020-06-23 16:01:21	epoch	so you could run it without an X server
2020-06-23 16:01:39	@xq	neat
2020-06-23 16:01:46	epoch	oldest commit is from Oct 18th 2016
2020-06-23 16:01:48	@xq	i'm intrigued by the idea of streaming geometry
2020-06-23 16:01:58	epoch	the fun part
2020-06-23 16:02:06	@xq	it pretty much sounds like you made streaming wavefront obj
2020-06-23 16:02:10	epoch	is you can use normal shell tools for playing with it
2020-06-23 16:02:18	epoch	like, randomly sort them
2020-06-23 16:02:18	@xq	yeah i got that already
2020-06-23 16:02:25	@xq	that's funky
2020-06-23 16:02:26	epoch	and then slow it down
2020-06-23 16:02:33	@xq	xargs + grep → visiting gemini links :D
2020-06-23 16:02:34	epoch	and watch each random triangle appear
2020-06-23 16:03:14	makeworld	What's this?
2020-06-23 16:03:22	epoch	I also made a calendar program in it
2020-06-23 16:03:28	@xq	epoch is talking about a crazy 3D application he made
2020-06-23 16:03:33	@xq	and i'm like 150% hooked atm
2020-06-23 16:03:59	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/hackvr
2020-06-23 16:04:10	epoch	I had some videos up on a peertube, but they're down for repairs atm
2020-06-23 16:05:09	epoch	I recently added the ability to have one group be a subgroup of another
2020-06-23 16:05:10	makeworld	Got any screenshots or something? I'm intrigued but confused what it actually does
2020-06-23 16:05:18	epoch	I have a bunch somewhere. one sec.
2020-06-23 16:06:07	@xq	i will check that out later!
2020-06-23 16:06:43	epoch	(merp. why didn't I tag my mastodon posts)
2020-06-23 16:07:49	epoch	oh, I wrote a pretty bad terminal emulator for it using libtmt
2020-06-23 16:08:09	epoch	but I didn't let myself do "text" as a first-class type
2020-06-23 16:08:18	epoch	so it is using a vector-font I made
2020-06-23 16:08:19	makeworld	Grr all the anti-TLS posts
2020-06-23 16:08:56	epoch	https://tilde.zone/system/media_attachments/files/001/173/174/original/528a31484838c00b.png
2020-06-23 16:09:04	@xq	epoch: does hackvr support textures and texts?
2020-06-23 16:09:13	epoch	no textures, no text
2020-06-23 16:09:20	epoch	unless you count the vector-text
2020-06-23 16:09:24	@xq	okay, so only shapes or text-shaped shapes :D
2020-06-23 16:09:32	epoch	yeah
2020-06-23 16:09:57	epoch	figured if text was some other protocol's problem
2020-06-23 16:10:02	epoch	s/if /
2020-06-23 16:10:08	epoch	s/if //*
2020-06-23 16:10:58	epoch	I've written some stuff to send it over IRC to help with many-to-many
2020-06-23 16:11:59	epoch	like, just an IRC bot that will only do a single channel as stdio that gets ran with hackvr as a coprocess
2020-06-23 16:12:24	makeworld	Uh what is that??
2020-06-23 16:12:41	makeworld	I'm confused what I'm looking at lol
2020-06-23 16:13:07	epoch	the screenshot is a bug
2020-06-23 16:13:28	makeworld	Oh, what is it supposed to do?
2020-06-23 16:13:32	epoch	guess I should link to posts...
2020-06-23 16:13:46	epoch	it is supposed to be a terminal inside a 3d space
2020-06-23 16:13:57	epoch	https://tilde.zone/@epoch/104052094005184590
2020-06-23 16:13:57	companion_cube	there's ii that does that iirc
2020-06-23 16:14:02	companion_cube	one "file" per channel
2020-06-23 16:14:23	epoch	https://tilde.zone/@epoch/104041446440932567
2020-06-23 16:14:32	@xq	companion_cube: oh yeah that's awesome
2020-06-23 16:14:45	epoch	yeah, could use that too
2020-06-23 16:14:47	epoch	:)
2020-06-23 16:15:03	epoch	the irc bot I did was just for ease of plumbing over IRC
2020-06-23 16:15:11	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-23 16:15:31		kensanata has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-23 16:15:37	epoch	https://tilde.zone/@epoch/104035328858446837
2020-06-23 16:16:38	epoch	the radio interface actually controls the music on my desktop using mpc talking to an close-enough-to-copatible mpd-like shell-script
2020-06-23 16:17:22	@xq	epoch: i assume the only "interface" to hackvr is the text stream?
2020-06-23 16:17:44	@xq	so, speccing out the text stream would allow displays/tools to be compatible
2020-06-23 16:17:54	epoch	nah, for ease of use you control the camera using WASD and the mouse
2020-06-23 16:18:55	@xq	well, yeah
2020-06-23 16:19:00	epoch	oh, then yeah
2020-06-23 16:19:03	@xq	but the geometry stream/update
2020-06-23 16:19:15	@xq	i would totally be in on implementing a hackvr client
2020-06-23 16:20:23	epoch	then maybe I should be writing more stuff into text files instead of source-code
2020-06-23 16:20:38	@xq	D:
2020-06-23 16:20:49	@xq	well, you can always export into a file instead of hackvr
2020-06-23 16:20:57	@xq	also another question: is that only line art you draw?
2020-06-23 16:21:01	@xq	or also filled polygons?
2020-06-23 16:21:57	epoch	atm the polygons are filled with lighting based on distance because I haven't gotten around to implementing proper lighting
2020-06-23 16:22:10	epoch	they're filled by default
2020-06-23 16:22:29	epoch	I was thinking of adding "invisible" shapes the other night
2020-06-23 16:22:30	@xq	okay, sounds great :)
2020-06-23 16:22:44	⚡	xq would love to hack some Zig again
2020-06-23 16:22:48	epoch	so you could have cubes linked by lines that don't display...
2020-06-23 16:22:49	@xq	and this sounds like a perfect project for that
2020-06-23 16:23:33	epoch	oh, I use SRV records for finding the port for plaintext hackvr
2020-06-23 16:23:42	@xq	hm, interesting
2020-06-23 16:24:00	epoch	# dig -t SRV _hackvr._tcp.thebackupbox.net +short
2020-06-23 16:24:00	epoch	0 100 1337 thebackupbox.net.
2020-06-23 16:24:01	@xq	i would go with a transport layer agnostic way though
2020-06-23 16:24:13	epoch	yeah
2020-06-23 16:24:22	epoch	I use netcat for doing the networking
2020-06-23 16:24:24	epoch	or socat
2020-06-23 16:24:26	epoch	or ssh
2020-06-23 16:24:40	epoch	just saying, if you plan on adding wrapper scripts to do any of the fancier stuff
2020-06-23 16:25:52	@xq	i would start by building a good, transport- and rendering-agnostic library
2020-06-23 16:30:13	epoch	https://thebackupbox.net/cgi-bin/pageview.cgi?page=hackvr
2020-06-23 16:30:40	epoch	I think that page might be missing a bit of stuff, but gives a longish list of lines.
2020-06-23 16:31:24	@xq	hehe
2020-06-23 16:31:33	@xq	i'm off for a while, have to get home :D
2020-06-23 16:31:39	@xq	but i will come back at you!
2020-06-23 16:31:39	epoch	kk
2020-06-23 17:21:37	ℹ 	epoch is now known as asdf
2020-06-23 17:21:47	ℹ 	asdf is now known as epoch
2020-06-23 17:22:26	ℹ 	epoch is now known as epoch_
2020-06-23 17:28:28		xfnw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-23 17:28:38	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 18:22:20		xfnw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-23 18:23:01	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 19:06:06	@xq	re
2020-06-23 19:06:10	@xq	that was a long way home
2020-06-23 20:06:53	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 20:07:54	makeworld	Bookmarks in Amfora are almost done!
2020-06-23 20:08:14	@tomasino	Huzzah
2020-06-23 20:08:42	acdw	aww yuss
2020-06-23 20:08:46	makeworld	:)
2020-06-23 20:08:46	acdw	good job makeworld
2020-06-23 20:08:56	makeworld	Wait until you see it! lol
2020-06-23 20:08:56	acdw	i still need to do that for bollux
2020-06-23 20:08:59	acdw	:D
2020-06-23 20:09:08	makeworld	I'm unsure whether to make a new release after that, or whether there should be more
2020-06-23 20:09:21	makeworld	But I'm thinking I should release
2020-06-23 20:09:30	acdw	DO IT
2020-06-23 20:09:35	acdw	releasing is the best
2020-06-23 20:09:40	makeworld	Ha, thanks
2020-06-23 20:09:43	acdw	look at firefox, chrom(e|ium)
2020-06-23 20:09:53	acdw	all the best browsers release a billion times
2020-06-23 20:10:10	acdw	you want to have the best browser don't you :P
2020-06-23 20:10:24	makeworld	Haha fair enough
2020-06-23 20:10:28	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 20:20:46	@julienxx	Made this gemini://typed-hole.org/tilde_news/index.gmi
2020-06-23 20:21:05	@julienxx	ben: if you're interested in hosting it I have a branch for you :)
2020-06-23 20:21:42	@ben	julienxx: lol sure!
2020-06-23 20:22:13	@ben	would be great
2020-06-23 20:24:19	makeworld	It still says "on gopher" but nice
2020-06-23 20:24:24	makeworld	I didn't know about tilde.news
2020-06-23 20:25:29	@tomasino	It's a fun place
2020-06-23 20:25:39	@ben	it's a lobste.rs for tilde things
2020-06-23 20:25:48	makeworld	Ah
2020-06-23 20:25:50	@tomasino	Check out the services section of tildeverse.org
2020-06-23 20:25:54	@tomasino	Lots of good stuff
2020-06-23 20:26:10	@ben	we have ltos of things
2020-06-23 20:28:14	acdw	I like tilde.news!
2020-06-23 20:28:33	acdw	hey peaking of....do any of yall think you could send me an invite? IDK what I need to do
2020-06-23 20:29:39	@tomasino	What's your email
2020-06-23 20:30:02	acdw	acdw@acdw.net
2020-06-23 20:30:12	@julienxx	ben: it’s the gemini_tilde_news branch on the gophsters project I made for the gopher mirror https://github.com/julienXX/gophsters I’ll clean the typo tomorrow
2020-06-23 20:30:14	acdw	or acdw@tilde.institute if you need a tilde email
2020-06-23 20:30:28	@tomasino	One sec
2020-06-23 20:30:38	acdw	julienxx: Also -- I noticed that < and > are rendered as &lt; and &gt; in the comments
2020-06-23 20:31:21	acdw	Thanks tomasino!
2020-06-23 20:31:53	@tomasino	Sent
2020-06-23 20:32:11	epoch_	int main() { /* todo: add --version */ return 0; } /* RELEASE 1.0! */
2020-06-23 20:32:36	makeworld	You did it!
2020-06-23 20:32:40	@tomasino	Well, it doesn't crash
2020-06-23 20:32:45	@tomasino	No memory leaks
2020-06-23 20:32:52	@tomasino	Good work
2020-06-23 20:33:04	epoch_	int main() { /* todo: add --version */ return 0; } /* RELEASE 2.0! */ ; git commit -m 'fixed version number'
2020-06-23 20:33:48	@tomasino	Why not calver?
2020-06-23 20:33:49	yeti	is "floating version number" the other type?
2020-06-23 20:34:59	yeti	I thinkl I need a random version number somewhere...
2020-06-23 20:46:04	epoch_	I'm doing fibonacci versioning
2020-06-23 20:46:47	epoch_	well, adding the next fibonacci number to get the next version +1, +1, +2, +3, +5...
2020-06-23 20:47:21	epoch_	which is the same pattern but I get to pretend like 1 2 was the start of it instead of 1 1
2020-06-23 20:47:28	acdw	oh that's awesome
2020-06-23 20:48:07	epoch_	wonder what large fibonacci numbers look like encoded in utf-8
2020-06-23 20:49:06	epoch_	or could do pi versioning
2020-06-23 20:49:07	epoch_	3
2020-06-23 20:49:09	epoch_	3.1
2020-06-23 20:49:11	epoch_	3.14
2020-06-23 20:49:15	acdw	I think ... latex does it that way?
2020-06-23 20:49:17	@xq	epoch_: that's already taken by latex
2020-06-23 20:49:20	acdw	lol
2020-06-23 20:49:21	@xq	use e versioning
2020-06-23 20:49:24	epoch_	was about to say
2020-06-23 20:49:24	@xq	or sqrt(2) versioning
2020-06-23 20:49:27	epoch_	I think 'e' is taken too
2020-06-23 20:49:28	acdw	e is ... tex?
2020-06-23 20:49:54	acdw	no pi is tex, my bad
2020-06-23 20:50:19	acdw	oh you could do pi fractional versioning
2020-06-23 20:50:24	epoch_	MetaFont has 'e'
2020-06-23 20:50:27	epoch_	TeX is pi
2020-06-23 20:50:32	epoch_	https://texfaq.org/FAQ-TeXfuture
2020-06-23 20:51:42	acdw	ah there it is
2020-06-23 20:51:56	epoch_	I was thinking zeno's paradox versioning first
2020-06-23 20:52:01	epoch_	but 1 2 didn't fit the pattern
2020-06-23 20:52:15	acdw	haha
2020-06-23 20:52:30	acdw	0, 1/2, 3/4, 7/8, 15/16, ...
2020-06-23 20:52:39	epoch_	^
2020-06-23 20:52:40	epoch_	:)
2020-06-23 20:52:54	acdw	[3; 7, 15, 1, 292, 1, 1, ...] <- continuing fraction notation of pi
2020-06-23 20:53:10	epoch_	ZENO IS GETTING SO CLOSE TO VERSION 1
2020-06-23 20:53:17	epoch_	guess I'd have to name the program zeno.
2020-06-23 20:54:01	acdw	hahahaha yes
2020-06-23 20:54:05	acdw	or take a look at https://oeis.org/
2020-06-23 20:54:27	acdw	and just pick one of them
2020-06-23 20:54:38	acdw	OR each major version will be increasing sequence indexes
2020-06-23 20:54:46	epoch_	prime versioning
2020-06-23 20:54:51	acdw	and minor versions will be the numbers within those indeces
2020-06-23 20:54:54	acdw	yes primes
2020-06-23 20:55:33	acdw	OH or name versions after Mozart's K numbers
2020-06-23 20:55:48	acdw	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6chel_catalogue
2020-06-23 20:55:48	epoch_	hash of the contents of the project versioning
2020-06-23 20:55:56	@tomasino	Endless scream versioning? "AH, AAH, AAAH, AAAAH"
2020-06-23 20:56:03	epoch_	:)
2020-06-23 20:56:04	acdw	So like, version 1 is "Minuet  in G for Piano"
2020-06-23 20:56:13	acdw	or laugh versioning: HAAAHAHAHHHAHHAAA
2020-06-23 20:56:35	acdw	Semantic versioning where H is a dot and A counts the numbers
2020-06-23 20:56:44	acdw	HAHAAHA = 1.2.1
2020-06-23 20:56:47	acdw	easy peasy
2020-06-23 20:57:03	acdw	I do just like the hash of the contents as well
2020-06-23 20:57:04	epoch_	Il1IIl11Il versioning?
2020-06-23 20:57:06	epoch_	I dunno.
2020-06-23 20:57:07	acdw	HA
2020-06-23 20:57:19	acdw	isn't the hash of the contents basically git revision versioning?
2020-06-23 20:57:21	@tomasino	The version number is a Quine of the program
2020-06-23 20:57:28	acdw	oh that'd be good
2020-06-23 20:58:06	epoch_	number of sleepness nights comtemplating death as version number
2020-06-23 20:58:16	epoch_	+1
2020-06-23 20:58:21	epoch_	:>
2020-06-23 20:58:39	acdw	number of days since last release
2020-06-23 20:58:55	@tomasino	Oooh
2020-06-23 20:58:59	@tomasino	I like that one
2020-06-23 20:59:09	epoch_	phrack would be on a /really/ high version number
2020-06-23 20:59:26	acdw	:D
2020-06-23 20:59:26	epoch_	inb4 phrack released the first issue in ... how many years? just to fuck that joke over.
2020-06-23 20:59:26	@tomasino	There was an old lady who swallowed a fly versioning
2020-06-23 20:59:30	⚡	epoch_ checks
2020-06-23 20:59:48	acdw	version fly, spider, cat, dog, goat, cow, horse, ded
2020-06-23 20:59:52	acdw	hm not many versions
2020-06-23 21:00:02	@tomasino	Have to keep going
2020-06-23 21:00:05	epoch_	(nah, still last release of May 6 2016)
2020-06-23 21:00:33	@tomasino	ded, brains, baseball bats, porn stars...
2020-06-23 21:04:02	⚡	tiwesdaeg kicks cgi
2020-06-23 21:04:14	~tiwesdaeg	it's driving me nuts today
2020-06-23 21:04:39	@tomasino	Sorry dood
2020-06-23 21:07:29	~tiwesdaeg	of course, it works on one host and not another
2020-06-23 21:08:11	~tiwesdaeg	only difference is host OS
2020-06-23 21:08:58	⚡	tiwesdaeg throws cgi at tomasino
2020-06-23 21:09:05	⚡	tomasino eats it
2020-06-23 21:10:07	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/cal.py
2020-06-23 21:10:14	~tiwesdaeg	that's not where I wanted it to be
2020-06-23 21:11:00	~tiwesdaeg	I tried wrapping the python program in a shell script
2020-06-23 21:11:04	~tiwesdaeg	that didn't work either
2020-06-23 21:12:04	epoch_	same versions of python?
2020-06-23 21:12:33	~tiwesdaeg	fixed it
2020-06-23 21:13:16	~tiwesdaeg	subprocess.check_output
2020-06-23 21:13:37	~tiwesdaeg	I'm using that to run a command line program and then process the text
2020-06-23 21:13:53	~tiwesdaeg	I had to give the full path in python to get it to work as a cgi script
2020-06-23 21:14:02	~tiwesdaeg	it runs fine from the command line without it
2020-06-23 21:14:32	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://cal.discordian.de/
2020-06-23 21:15:03	epoch_	ah, missing a bit of PATH probably
2020-06-23 21:16:40	⚡	wgreenhouse starts downloading one of the mixtapes at gemini://konpeito.media/ and discovers that elpher is just naively copying the mixtape into an emacs buffer in memory before asking me if I want to write it to a file :3
2020-06-23 21:16:50	acdw	lol
2020-06-23 21:17:08	wgreenhouse	it's very simple elisp, easy to see what it's doing
2020-06-23 21:17:11	wgreenhouse	but also ot
2020-06-23 21:17:15	wgreenhouse	it's very simple elisp
2020-06-23 21:17:19	wgreenhouse	for good or ill
2020-06-23 21:32:56	makeworld	Hey, thanks for reminding me there's a new one!
2020-06-23 21:33:12	makeworld	Listening to konpeito while coding Gemini software just feels right
2020-06-23 21:34:21	wgreenhouse	it worked btw, in case any of you were hanging on with bated breath :D
2020-06-23 21:34:46	wgreenhouse	makeworld: this is really cool; I found it because it was linked from someone's page that appeared on capcom
2020-06-23 21:34:58	makeworld	Konpeito? Yeah it's great
2020-06-23 21:35:05	wgreenhouse	yes
2020-06-23 21:35:42	acdw	oh i still have to download it
2020-06-23 21:41:35	kensanata	Fixed up my Wikipedia proxy a bit... gemini://localhost:1965/text/en/Project_Gemini and gemini://localhost:1965/full/en/Project_Gemini
2020-06-23 21:42:38	acdw	localhost huh?
2020-06-23 21:42:43	kensanata	haha
2020-06-23 21:43:02	acdw	looks good!
2020-06-23 21:43:19	kensanata	gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1967/text/en/Project_Gemini and gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1967/full/en/Project_Gemini
2020-06-23 21:43:54	kensanata	And with that it's time for bed! Well, maybe prepare some bread dough and then bed...
2020-06-23 21:44:09	acdw	oh that does look good
2020-06-23 21:44:11	acdw	mmm bread dough
2020-06-23 21:44:12	acdw	have fun!
2020-06-23 21:44:17	kensanata	Thanks
2020-06-23 21:44:25		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-23 21:55:49	makeworld	Nice
2020-06-23 21:56:18	makeworld	I like that mirror, looks nice and clean
2020-06-23 21:56:38	makeworld	You don't get inline links, but that's a choice that makes sense
2020-06-23 21:56:47	makeworld	And there's always the other mirror for another style
2020-06-23 21:58:21	acdw	I love how much *style* goes into geminispace, even though we have such little options for it
2020-06-23 21:58:22	makeworld	Also that's a good test case for my port storing in my TOFU db, thanks
2020-06-23 21:58:29	makeworld	Haha yeah
2020-06-23 21:58:41	acdw	oh shoot, that's a good point makeworld
2020-06-23 21:58:57	acdw	but yeah it speaks to the expressive power of restrictions
2020-06-23 21:58:59	makeworld	Yep, didn't realize until I read a pdf solderpunk sent
2020-06-23 21:59:01	acdw	like oulipo
2020-06-23 21:59:05	acdw	oh?
2020-06-23 21:59:21	makeworld	Also make sure you're hashing SubjectPublicKeyInfo and not the whole cert if possible
2020-06-23 21:59:26	makeworld	Yeah in the TOFU threead
2020-06-23 21:59:35	acdw	oh good point -- I'll have to re read that thread
2020-06-23 21:59:40	acdw	okay I gotta go get on the desk
2020-06-23 21:59:41	acdw	o/
2020-06-23 21:59:46		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-23 21:59:47	@tomasino	Mercury should require oulipo style
2020-06-23 21:59:47	makeworld	https://rp.delaat.net/2012-2013/p56/report.pdf
2020-06-23 22:00:04	@tomasino	No e's make it easier to transport
2020-06-23 22:01:08	makeworld	Heh
2020-06-23 22:01:23	makeworld	Better for embedded devices that everyone seems to be using all the time!
2020-06-23 22:01:49	@tomasino	Or something
2020-06-23 22:02:09	@tomasino	Embedded devices could use some better transport security, honestly
2020-06-23 22:02:24	makeworld	Why not
2020-06-23 22:02:49	@tomasino	I have a friend from high school that works add a security consultant now specializing in embedded systems and the security is a joke
2020-06-23 22:03:00	@tomasino	In, not add
2020-06-23 22:03:07	@tomasino	Gah
2020-06-23 22:03:10	@tomasino	As.
2020-06-23 22:03:11	makeworld	IoT, the S stands for security
2020-06-23 22:03:12	makeworld	As they say
2020-06-23 22:03:17	@tomasino	Yeah
2020-06-23 22:03:31	makeworld	Or IoS, where it stands for shit
2020-06-23 22:03:32	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-23 22:03:42	@tomasino	So many systems have passwords hard coded in rom
2020-06-23 22:03:49	@tomasino	It's ridiculous
2020-06-23 22:03:53	makeworld	Yikes really?
2020-06-23 22:03:57	@tomasino	Yes
2020-06-23 22:04:01	makeworld	Wow
2020-06-23 22:04:13	@tomasino	Let me find one of his talks
2020-06-23 22:07:17	@tomasino	https://youtu.be/p-qrKtDhyeg
2020-06-23 22:10:40	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 22:10:47	acdw	comin at you live from the helpdesk
2020-06-23 22:10:53	acdw	*refernce desk
2020-06-23 22:11:17	acdw	anyway I have to look up the TLS business
2020-06-23 22:12:05	acdw	do you know if the mailing list archive includes attachments?
2020-06-23 22:12:06	@julienxx	Reading some nice prose on my smart fridge thanks to mercury, what a dream ^^
2020-06-23 22:13:10	@julienxx	I don’t recall having seen an attachment on the ML
2020-06-23 22:13:22	acdw	hmmm
2020-06-23 22:13:40	acdw	smart fridge mercuratic verse does sound nice tho
2020-06-23 22:14:36	@ben	julienxx: hmm would it be possible to generate both gopher and gemini at the same time
2020-06-23 22:15:10	@tomasino	Certainly
2020-06-23 22:15:30	acdw	julienxx I found the attachment -- sorry I missed it when I was away
2020-06-23 22:15:44	@julienxx	ben: not yet but I’m working on a setting in the tool to generate one or the other
2020-06-23 22:16:11	@tomasino	Oh, in his tools
2020-06-23 22:16:25	@ben	lol i guess i was just trying to avoid cloning the repo twice to have to different branches
2020-06-23 22:16:52	@julienxx	That’s what I did on my server in the meantime :D
2020-06-23 22:19:09	@julienxx	Having a bridge where one could post and comment via gemini would be nice for tilde.news
2020-06-23 22:21:58	makeworld	I'm sure a smart fridge already has TLS
2020-06-23 22:22:01	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-23 22:23:45	makeworld	Gemini will work just fine!
2020-06-23 22:25:20	@tomasino	True
2020-06-23 22:25:42	@ben	julienxx: how would that work?
2020-06-23 22:25:55	@ben	would be neato though
2020-06-23 22:26:57	makeworld	Using input and client certs maybe?
2020-06-23 22:27:11	@ben	yeah i figured but how would you auth to tilde.news
2020-06-23 22:27:35	makeworld	Yeah I guess you'd have to add some feature so that you could upload a key or cert to your account on the web UI
2020-06-23 22:27:42	@julienxx	Something like a Gemini server associating certificates with a tilde.news user account and making POST requests on their behalf
2020-06-23 22:27:46	makeworld	And then bridge will just pass that along
2020-06-23 22:28:17	@ben	ahh yeah that makes sense
2020-06-23 22:29:02	@julienxx	This could be manual at first like a registered user sends you a certificate and you link it to the token tilde.news expects
2020-06-23 22:30:05	@ben	right
2020-06-23 22:30:52	@julienxx	And then you can post from a smart fridge
2020-06-23 22:31:48	@tomasino	I'm getting sadder and sadder as the mercury posts continue on the ML
2020-06-23 22:32:17	@julienxx	Same...
2020-06-23 22:32:45	acdw	oh they're still happening?
2020-06-23 22:32:52	@tomasino	Mmhmm
2020-06-23 22:33:28	@tomasino	It's exactly as I feared. Once solderpunk gave it a name it became a thing people could latch onto and develop independently
2020-06-23 22:33:41	@tomasino	It's basically too late to stop now
2020-06-23 22:33:48	@tomasino	People are going to implement it
2020-06-23 22:33:54	acdw	yerp
2020-06-23 22:33:56	acdw	welp
2020-06-23 22:34:06	@ben	wait what
2020-06-23 22:34:26	acdw	I like text/gemini for sure -- and it'd be cool if gopher was implemented as text/gemini
2020-06-23 22:34:33	acdw	like basically text/gemini over gopher
2020-06-23 22:34:40	@tomasino	That'd be great
2020-06-23 22:34:53	acdw	idk what else mercury would be
2020-06-23 22:34:58	acdw	i forget the og post
2020-06-23 22:35:08	@tomasino	Well mercury isn't text/Gemini
2020-06-23 22:35:14	@tomasino	It's just link lines
2020-06-23 22:35:30	@tomasino	And the headers are simpler and provide no Lang
2020-06-23 22:36:14	acdw	yeah that's right -- seems like too much if you ask me
2020-06-23 22:36:15	@tomasino	But what will people build it to be? Probably Gemini without TLS
2020-06-23 22:36:30	epoch_	only link lines?
2020-06-23 22:36:31	acdw	i mean that's fine with me ... just :1965 over clear text
2020-06-23 22:36:41	@ben	tls is wildly complicated
2020-06-23 22:36:48	epoch_	like text/uri-list?
2020-06-23 22:36:49	@tomasino	But that undermines the ecosystem
2020-06-23 22:37:14	@tomasino	You can't trust that you're staying in TLS anymore if you stay in 1965
2020-06-23 22:37:23	acdw	mmm that's true
2020-06-23 22:37:26	acdw	poot
2020-06-23 22:37:49	@tomasino	Which is the most important factor people pointed to that gopher lacks
2020-06-23 22:37:55	@tomasino	It started this whole thing
2020-06-23 22:38:18	@tomasino	The markup was an add on
2020-06-23 22:38:23	@tomasino	Status codes too
2020-06-23 22:39:14	@tomasino	The sentiment on the latest post...
2020-06-23 22:39:17	@tomasino	As long as the spec specifies both the "with TLS" and "without TLS
2020-06-23 22:39:18	@tomasino	bits", and as long as most client/server authors agree to support
2020-06-23 22:39:18	@tomasino	both, there shouldn't be any ecosystem split -- again, same as what
2020-06-23 22:39:18	@tomasino	happened with http and https
2020-06-23 22:39:19	acdw	i personally don't feel the need for encryption but i also understand that's a privileged position
2020-06-23 22:39:42	@tomasino	That approach undermines all of the security
2020-06-23 22:40:01	@xq	acdw: encryption does not only protect you from identity reveal, but also from malicious content
2020-06-23 22:40:05	@tomasino	If I seemlessly move to clear text then what's the point
2020-06-23 22:40:12	acdw	mmm I see what you mean! I *was* going to say it'll be differnt protocols like http: and https: but that's notoriously hard to notice in browsers
2020-06-23 22:40:21	acdw	xq thank you you're right
2020-06-23 22:41:34	@tomasino	I love gopher in it's criminally simple protocol but Gemini isn't a retro protocol. It's a text protocol that is using modem tools and design to be better
2020-06-23 22:41:47	@tomasino	Modern
2020-06-23 22:41:58	@tomasino	Phone is the worst for irc
2020-06-23 22:42:06	acdw	haha yes I can see that
2020-06-23 22:42:14	acdw	I tried using an IRC client on my phone about thrice
2020-06-23 22:42:20	acdw	it kept disconnecting
2020-06-23 22:42:22	@julienxx	Pre-gemini started with this phlog gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk/phlog/why-gopher-needs-crypto.txt
2020-06-23 22:42:25	@ben	weechat-android is the way to go
2020-06-23 22:42:35	@tomasino	Yes, julienxx!
2020-06-23 22:42:41	acdw	anyway I like your point tomasino -- gemini *isn't* a retro protocol -- but modern and minimalist
2020-06-23 22:43:12	@tomasino	If you want something to run on TOPS-20, maybe Gemini just isn't the right answer
2020-06-23 22:43:46	@julienxx	But what about fridges 😬
2020-06-23 22:43:57	epoch_	kermit
2020-06-23 22:43:58	@tomasino	Fridges should have tls
2020-06-23 22:44:04	@tomasino	They do web
2020-06-23 22:44:36	@tomasino	You can tweet, so they probably have openssl
2020-06-23 22:44:52	acdw	ben: weechat-android require a weechat instance on a host?
2020-06-23 22:44:56	@ben	acdw: yeah
2020-06-23 22:45:05	@ben	just run it on a tilde
2020-06-23 22:45:31	@ben	eg on ~team i have this set up: https://tilde.team/wiki/irc#weechat-relays
2020-06-23 22:45:41	@ben	but there's also an ssh connection mode
2020-06-23 22:46:15	@tomasino	I'm not going to respond to the ML. I feel like the bad guy shooting down stuff so much. I hope others engage and explain it before it's built and live
2020-06-23 22:46:28	acdw	oh shoot yes duh
2020-06-23 22:46:29	acdw	omg
2020-06-23 22:46:32	acdw	I'm excited about this
2020-06-23 22:46:49	acdw	the weechat thing not the mercury thing
2020-06-23 22:47:01	@tomasino	Weechat android is great
2020-06-23 22:47:08	@tomasino	My autocorrect isn't
2020-06-23 22:47:12	@ben	it's actually usable
2020-06-23 22:47:18	acdw	that original phlog post gives a ton of examples re not doing mercury
2020-06-23 22:47:25	@ben	and you don't have 400 nicks that way either
2020-06-23 22:47:40	acdw	bu---400 nicks is the way to goooo
2020-06-23 22:48:43	@ben	hehe
2020-06-23 22:48:49	@xq	epoch_: you there?
2020-06-23 22:48:53	@ben	i yell at people for having multiple nicks sometimes
2020-06-23 22:48:58	@ben	cause i never know which one to ping/dm
2020-06-23 22:49:30	@xq	ben: i feel adressed :(
2020-06-23 22:49:32	acdw	omg that relay thing might just be a game changer
2020-06-23 22:49:44	@xq	i need to use a different nick on freenode
2020-06-23 22:49:46	acdw	b/c rn I am using autossh but that drops the connection sometimes
2020-06-23 22:50:00	acdw	oh boy I have something to set up later
2020-06-23 22:50:10	@ben	:P
2020-06-23 22:50:32	@ben	i use autossh to connect to ~town's internal irx
2020-06-23 22:50:53	@ben	my weechat is on ~team though so the connection is v stable
2020-06-23 22:51:41	acdw	oh shoot I have 2 servers i need to stay connected to
2020-06-23 22:51:43	acdw	womp
2020-06-23 22:51:54	@tomasino	It's all good
2020-06-23 22:52:10	@tomasino	Just reread solderpunk's post again
2020-06-23 22:52:15	@ben	lol i'm connected to like 10 servers in my weechat
2020-06-23 22:52:23	@tomasino	Maybe the thread just needs that link inserted
2020-06-23 22:52:32	acdw	OH ben I got there jeez
2020-06-23 22:52:41	acdw	yes tomasino I was thinking something like that
2020-06-23 22:52:58	@ben	lol
2020-06-23 22:53:20	acdw	If you're uncomfortable making a ML post I can do that -- I don't understand much of the technical issues but I've been convinced
2020-06-23 22:56:10	@tomasino	If you want to jump in, go for it. I don't want to be that guy again. Maybe Julien will chime in, or maybe I'm an outlier
2020-06-23 22:56:36		lel has quit (team.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-06-23 22:56:36		southerntofu has quit (team.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-06-23 22:56:36		pekka20 has quit (team.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-06-23 22:58:22	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 22:58:22	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 22:58:22	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-06-23 22:58:23	makeworld	tomasino: Feel the same way :/
2020-06-23 22:58:32	makeworld	About mercury posts and jumping in
2020-06-23 22:58:48	makeworld	Has to happen when Solderpunk is away too
2020-06-23 22:59:16	acdw	not necessarily -- like I said, I'm not what I'd call *invested* in the TLS stuff, but I do think that a split this early in the game is going to cause confusion and also TLS is kind of the *reason* gemini happened afaict
2020-06-23 22:59:39	acdw	I am like straight up convincing myself lol
2020-06-23 23:00:01	acdw	okay gotta go
2020-06-23 23:00:04		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-23 23:02:03	makeworld	Yeah I agree
2020-06-23 23:40:11	makeworld	I think bookmarks might just be done
2020-06-23 23:40:16	makeworld	!!
2020-06-23 23:40:35	makeworld	The way I store them is kinda hacky though
2020-06-23 23:41:03	makeworld	It's in a TOML file, with the base32-encoded URL as keys, and the bookmark names as values
2020-06-23 23:41:28	makeworld	But it's not for user editing really, so it's not a big deal, just sorta ugly
2020-06-23 23:43:59	makeworld	m5sw22lone5c6l3nmfvwk53pojwgilthoexxk43fojzs67tbor4xeztjnztwk4tqojuw45dtf5twk3lmn5ts6mrqgiyc2mbwfuzdellimfxgo5lmfztw22i=
2020-06-23 23:44:06	makeworld	Isn't that nice
2020-06-23 23:54:13		xfnw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:00:57		bdju has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:01:01		codingquark has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:01:02		jan6 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:01:03		jdp has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:01:04		sndr has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:01:06		rak has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:01:08		tildebeast1 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:01:09		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2020-06-24 00:01:09		txusinho has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:01:10		xfnw|android has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 00:01:14		mmmattyx has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 00:01:14		benoliver999 has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 00:01:14		erin has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 00:01:14		makeworld has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 00:01:15		bard has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 00:01:15		everbern has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 00:01:15		Ekkie has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 00:01:18	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 00:01:21	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 00:01:30	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 00:01:32	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 00:01:35	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 00:02:12	makeworld	Did the server just restart?
2020-06-24 00:02:24	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 00:02:41		anelki has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-24 00:04:03	makeworld	Looks like it, I checked #meta
2020-06-24 00:04:12	makeworld	Something went down, anyway
2020-06-24 00:13:50	@tomasino	team's dedi server rebooted
2020-06-24 00:13:53	@tomasino	should be back up now
2020-06-24 00:14:11	@tomasino	or.. soon
2020-06-24 00:20:05	makeworld	What's dedi?
2020-06-24 00:22:50	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 00:22:59	@tomasino	ben's dedicated server
2020-06-24 00:23:03	@tomasino	runs tilde.team and some other stuff
2020-06-24 00:23:06	@tomasino	well, lots of other stuff
2020-06-24 00:23:08	@tomasino	it's back now
2020-06-24 00:23:39	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-06-24 00:23:43	@tomasino	tildegit was running ridiculously slow, so after failing to figure out exactly why, a reboot was warned about for an hour via wall, then done
2020-06-24 00:24:11	makeworld	Hmm tilde.team page is not really loading
2020-06-24 00:25:31	makeworld	Got it now
2020-06-24 00:27:15	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 00:27:15	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 00:27:15	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-06-24 00:27:21	@tomasino	little by little
2020-06-24 00:27:24	@tomasino	tildegit is still not pulling
2020-06-24 00:28:03	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 01:04:54		yeti has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-24 01:13:51	kayw	ok i think my summer project will be to write a gemini client/server in Ada
2020-06-24 01:13:57	kayw	probably client
2020-06-24 01:14:10	▬▬▶	yeti has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 01:14:17	@tomasino	aww, damn
2020-06-24 01:14:20	@tomasino	that was gonna be my thing
2020-06-24 01:14:26	@tomasino	but i can't figure out how to do TLS in it
2020-06-24 01:14:28	@tomasino	so go for it
2020-06-24 01:14:30	@tomasino	Ada is the best
2020-06-24 01:15:13	kayw	a friend introduced me to it, and it's just super legible
2020-06-24 01:15:24	@tomasino	there's so much to love about it
2020-06-24 01:15:28	kayw	thanks for the heads up about TLS though
2020-06-24 01:15:40	@tomasino	you just need to link to a lib, but i dunno how to do that
2020-06-24 01:15:53	kayw	I haven't really even written anything in it YET but I hope that the client will be the first
2020-06-24 01:15:54	@tomasino	i don't do that sort of programming, like, ever. and it's something tutorials just glaze over
2020-06-24 01:16:24	@tomasino	the harder problem you'll have is dealing with the different string types
2020-06-24 01:16:32	@tomasino	there's so many 
2020-06-24 01:16:53	kayw	I'm also thinking of the possibility of writing a client in Java because i'll be TA-ing the Java class at my school when things start back up
2020-06-24 01:17:20	@tomasino	why not both!
2020-06-24 01:17:28	@tomasino	you can compare and contrast OO styles
2020-06-24 01:18:09	kayw	Java really isn't my forte, buuuuuuut I should be able to hack something together
2020-06-24 01:18:20	kayw	I also learned Java in the worst IDE possible, BlueJ
2020-06-24 01:21:49	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 01:24:18	▬▬▶	lick has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 01:24:54	ℹ 	lick is now known as xfnw|android
2020-06-24 01:25:46		xfnw|android has quit (Changing host)
2020-06-24 01:25:46	▬▬▶	xfnw|android has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 01:34:19	kayw	tomasino: so it's possible to ada to generate bindings from C libs to be used in Ada, so I think that's how i'll conquer that problem
2020-06-24 01:34:35	kayw	s/possible to/possible for/
2020-06-24 01:34:49	@tomasino	yeah, that's exactly it. i just have not the first clue how to even start that process
2020-06-24 01:34:50	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-24 01:35:04	@tomasino	you'll make it happen and it'll be glorious
2020-06-24 01:35:07	@tomasino	i hope you post your code online
2020-06-24 01:35:10	@tomasino	i'd love to learn from it
2020-06-24 01:35:35	kayw	i will be, it'll be a wonderful hacky mess on GitHub
2020-06-24 01:36:00	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-24 01:36:12	@tomasino	i started the euler problems in Ada a while back
2020-06-24 01:36:15	@tomasino	it was really fun
2020-06-24 01:36:24	kayw	oh shit, i forgot those existed
2020-06-24 01:36:24	@tomasino	but making "useful" stuff is better
2020-06-24 01:36:31	kayw	i should probably give them a go
2020-06-24 01:41:30	styan	I remember solving some with dc(1) (I have an unreasonable love for dc(1)) :-)
2020-06-24 01:43:05		xfnw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-24 01:43:29	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 02:04:12	dozens	I always loved the advent of code puzzles *far* more than euler
2020-06-24 02:04:16	dozens	maybe I just like cute stories
2020-06-24 02:04:32	dozens	kayw: hooooo bluej
2020-06-24 02:05:48	@tomasino	i started the advent of code with ada too
2020-06-24 02:05:52	@tomasino	but i only did like 3 days
2020-06-24 02:05:54	@tomasino	then got busy
2020-06-24 02:06:43	kayw	bluej is just...
2020-06-24 02:06:45	kayw	so bad
2020-06-24 02:06:52	kayw	i hate it so much
2020-06-24 02:08:52		xfnw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-24 02:11:50	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 02:13:10	makeworld	Does it make sense to announce new releases on the mailing list? I can't tell if it's annoying or not
2020-06-24 02:14:19	@tomasino	maybe major versions?
2020-06-24 02:15:36	▬▬▶	Shufei has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 02:17:26		xfnw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-24 02:17:37	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 02:17:57	Shufei	Gemini is lovely funtimes.
2020-06-24 02:25:58	dozens	Gemini is funly lovetimes.
2020-06-24 02:32:26		Shufei has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 03:08:06	makeworld	tomasino: Yeah that's probably good. I don't see me releasing major versions for Amfora in the future, just minor. But if people want to stay update they can subscribe
2020-06-24 03:08:13	makeworld	*up to date
2020-06-24 03:29:54	makeworld	Anyway, goodnight y'all. There should be a new Amfora release tomorrow, v1.2.0
2020-06-24 03:30:00	makeworld	Bookmarks included!
2020-06-24 03:51:18		xfnw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-24 04:08:55		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-24 04:10:25	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 04:30:51	▬▬▶	satsuki has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 05:17:25		thombles has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 05:46:53	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 07:16:10	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 07:17:18	⚡	kensanata waves
2020-06-24 07:56:50	kensanata	I need a Perl module that can lay out text tables. Or better still: turn Wikimedia tables into plain text tables.
2020-06-24 07:59:19	kensanata	Hm... https://metacpan.org/pod/Text::Table – sometimes Perl still wins
2020-06-24 08:07:50	▬▬▶	krixano2 has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 08:08:03		bacterio has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 08:08:03		krixano has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 08:08:03		natpen has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 08:08:03		anelki has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 08:08:03		gernot has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 08:08:03		yeti has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 08:08:03		dodolz has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 08:08:03		companion_cube has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-06-24 08:09:07	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 08:14:15	kensanata	I should probably host the Wikipedia proxy on a dedicated domain. It still annoys me that I will eventually need some sort of "main server" that listens on port 1965 and dispatches on the domain names requested to the various dedicated gemini services running on the same machine.
2020-06-24 08:16:23	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 08:18:45	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 08:25:52	@julienxx	hello
2020-06-24 08:31:42	jan6	olleh
2020-06-24 08:49:23	kensanata	The rest of the world is waking up!
2020-06-24 08:49:46	@xq	good morning!
2020-06-24 08:49:50	kensanata	And natpen!
2020-06-24 08:50:12	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 08:50:41	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 08:50:59	▬▬▶	yeti has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 08:55:05	kensanata	I'm following the Gemini mailing list by checking the web archive by date. That's a pretty big page by now. https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/date.html
2020-06-24 09:13:05		kensanata has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 09:21:03	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 09:26:38		satsuki has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 10:37:59	jan6	gemini forum running on gemini protocol when? ;P
2020-06-24 10:49:32	Sario528	Soon™
2020-06-24 11:02:08	@julienxx	there is gemini://geddit.pitr.ca
2020-06-24 12:27:23	~tiwesdaeg	hola
2020-06-24 12:28:26	kensanata	salut
2020-06-24 12:28:53	~tiwesdaeg	I forgot I had just installed freebsd on this computer last week
2020-06-24 12:29:00	~tiwesdaeg	let's see what we can compile today
2020-06-24 12:29:44	kensanata	This morning a read a longer introduction to a Lisp machine. So beautiful! It sounded like one big huge honking Emacs.
2020-06-24 13:12:16	▬▬▶	gernot has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 13:29:02	epoch_	o/
2020-06-24 13:29:17	@xq	hey epoch_
2020-06-24 13:29:24	@xq	things we definitly need for gemini: http://tholman.com/elevator.js/
2020-06-24 13:51:41	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 13:58:57	@julienxx	nice :D
2020-06-24 14:01:00	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 14:06:06	~tiwesdaeg	can I get some diagonal scrolling as well?
2020-06-24 14:06:16	~tiwesdaeg	like a link in every corner
2020-06-24 14:16:49	@xq	D:
2020-06-24 14:23:50	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 14:24:05	lukee	hi folks
2020-06-24 14:24:28	xfnw	hi
2020-06-24 14:24:41	lukee	I'm super pleased to have just got gopher working in my client
2020-06-24 14:24:46	@xq	hey lukee
2020-06-24 14:24:48	@xq	\o/
2020-06-24 14:24:51	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/d3xoo1f
2020-06-24 14:25:09	lukee	all of a sudden the space of accessible content sort of doubled
2020-06-24 14:26:25	lukee	I started having a browse around as I tested things out
2020-06-24 14:26:52	lukee	its a strange sparse world on gopher
2020-06-24 14:27:55	lukee	I also read up some more about the history of gopher - from a time when library sysadmins ruled the world
2020-06-24 14:28:14	lukee	anyway a few more bugs to iron out I'm sure
2020-06-24 14:29:02	lukee	I'm using a simple client that wraps Go gopher
2020-06-24 14:29:03	lukee	https://github.com/prologic/go-gopher
2020-06-24 14:29:45	kensanata	Gopher and Gemini, two tastes that go well together... I guess?
2020-06-24 14:29:59	kensanata	Elpher is also both a Gopher and a Gemini client.
2020-06-24 14:30:02	lukee	chalk and cheese. I do prefer the cheese
2020-06-24 14:30:23	lukee	I think Kristall does both too
2020-06-24 14:30:41	@xq	yep, Kristall speaks gopher as well
2020-06-24 14:31:38	kensanata	I wonder if most people on this channel like Gemini because they think it's intriguing in its own right, or whether they remember Gopher fondly and would like something like Gopher, except a bit better. Like: how many of us started with Gopher, and how many of us discovered Gemini directly (both of these groups learning of it all on the web, I
2020-06-24 14:31:38	kensanata	presume).
2020-06-24 14:32:22	@xq	kensanata: haven't used gopher before tomasino here explained it to me
2020-06-24 14:32:25	@julienxx	In the mailing list at least I think most don't come from the gopher world
2020-06-24 14:32:26	lukee	For me, I never used gopher before. I'm just interested in hypertext
2020-06-24 14:33:29	lukee	Actually I did maybe briefly try it once back in the day when you could use a web browser like netscape navigator to browser gopher
2020-06-24 14:33:56	lukee	I remember it looked rather peculiar, all mono width fonts.
2020-06-24 14:35:03	lukee	I didnt really get the point of it, when there was the (early) web which seemed more user friendly and presented formatted documents better
2020-06-24 14:35:53	kensanata	Hm, right.
2020-06-24 14:36:00	lukee	but now I realise it was just the clients were shit :)
2020-06-24 14:36:13	kensanata	I guess I remember gopher but I also switched immediately as soon as I learned how Mosaic worked.
2020-06-24 14:37:06	lukee	but now gopher (probably gemini too) has retro-chic
2020-06-24 14:37:37	lukee	I have a mental image of the gopher writers being hidden in their gopher holes and not wanting to come out.
2020-06-24 14:37:49	lukee	probably an unfair mental image?
2020-06-24 14:38:09	kensanata	Well... you can check out the archives of the project gopher mailing list and there are some pretty grumpy people on there.
2020-06-24 14:38:33	kensanata	I also left the gopher IRC channel after a while (not the one on Tilde but elsewhere)
2020-06-24 14:38:46	lukee	Even more grumpy  than the gemini lot? :)
2020-06-24 14:39:30	lukee	anyway its good to understand both directions of influence into Gemini
2020-06-24 14:42:19		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 14:45:32	makeworld	lukee: You added Gopher support to Geminaut? Or am I misunderstanding
2020-06-24 14:45:39	lukee	yes today
2020-06-24 14:45:44	makeworld	Ooh nice
2020-06-24 14:45:58	makeworld	Also I filed an issue on the Github repo, about updating gemget, if you could take a look?
2020-06-24 14:46:16	lukee	yes I did see that - thanks for the reminder. I can drop it in now
2020-06-24 14:46:58	lukee	I found a Go library/utility for gopher. I like the fact that Go applications are so easy to deploy
2020-06-24 14:47:19	lukee	no worries about getting a million and one dependencies right
2020-06-24 14:47:46	makeworld	Sounds good!
2020-06-24 14:47:54	makeworld	How are you integrating it into Geminaut?
2020-06-24 14:50:11	lukee	just a shell call, like with gemget. Its pretty crude, but works
2020-06-24 14:50:28	makeworld	Oh I meant go-gopher
2020-06-24 14:50:53	makeworld	Oh also the the main thing with this gemget update is that you shouldn't use --insecure in the shell call
2020-06-24 14:50:57	lukee	same thing - the library has a simple example client. I hacked that a bit to make it do what I want
2020-06-24 14:51:13	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I just built kristall on a new freebsd install.
2020-06-24 14:51:28	~tiwesdaeg	all I needed to do was install the git and qt5 packages
2020-06-24 14:51:30	lukee	I've just dropped in the new gemget - seems to work OK
2020-06-24 14:51:36	~tiwesdaeg	no errors
2020-06-24 14:51:43	lukee	I'll try to turn off the --insecure flag see how it goes
2020-06-24 14:51:53	@xq	tiwesdaeg, thanks for the report
2020-06-24 14:52:33	makeworld	lukee: Sounds good
2020-06-24 14:52:44	@xq	tiwesdaeg: d you have me a list of the qt5 packages?
2020-06-24 14:53:02	makeworld	I forget if GemiNaut does TLS and TOFU stuff. Gemget doesn't do TOFU, but it will check cert expiry and whether it matches the domain, etc
2020-06-24 14:53:52	makeworld	So if GemiNaut allows you to access a messed up site, gemget wouldn't let you download, unless you put insecure. But it's probably better to leave it on
2020-06-24 14:55:38	lukee	I'll try it out. If it turns out a lot is still inaccessible I might have a user choice or an option
2020-06-24 14:56:56	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 14:59:08	lukee	can anyone suggest a URL that is "insecure" I can test against?
2020-06-24 14:59:24	lukee	ie. the certificates are expired or something
2020-06-24 14:59:42	lukee	makeworld: so far so good on the new gemget - thankyou
2020-06-24 14:59:44	▬▬▶	sas-d has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 15:00:44	makeworld	Idk about an insecure test URL, but I can tell you that gemget won't download from something insecure unless you use --insecure
2020-06-24 15:01:00	ℹ 	sas-d is now known as cutegirl
2020-06-24 15:01:05	@julienxx	acdw: thanks for your post on the ML!
2020-06-24 15:01:10	makeworld	Which could be a feature, but might be unexpected if GemiNaut is not doing any TLS work. I hope it's on your roadmap though!
2020-06-24 15:01:16	makeworld	Yes, thanks!
2020-06-24 15:02:02	lukee	I will eventually replace gemget with some native TLS calls, but for now this is TBD
2020-06-24 15:02:36	makeworld	Happy to see it being used, even as a hack :)
2020-06-24 15:03:04	lukee	I think the "Twin Peaks" windows client (also c#) has its own native library for gemini with TLS. Not sure how mature it is though
2020-06-24 15:03:22	lukee	if it works I might integrate that some day
2020-06-24 15:03:36	makeworld	Oh I forgot about that one
2020-06-24 15:03:40	acdw	julienxx: :D
2020-06-24 15:07:57	~tiwesdaeg	brb
2020-06-24 15:07:59		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 15:09:02	acdw	who the f is nicksarv
2020-06-24 15:10:04	kensanata	Try /msg nickserv help
2020-06-24 15:10:27	kensanata	You get to "register" your nick and protect it with a password.
2020-06-24 15:10:29	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 15:10:29	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-06-24 15:10:31	@julienxx	did you get a frozen nick message too?
2020-06-24 15:10:41	acdw	julienxx: yes, but from NickSarv
2020-06-24 15:10:46	acdw	note the "a"
2020-06-24 15:10:50	kensanata	Oh!
2020-06-24 15:10:58	acdw	I think it's some kind of phisher
2020-06-24 15:11:01	acdw	from ctrl-c.club
2020-06-24 15:11:05	@julienxx	Oh right! Good catch!
2020-06-24 15:11:14	acdw	at least that's what the about user thing said
2020-06-24 15:11:17	acdw	:)
2020-06-24 15:11:24	~tiwesdaeg	testing byobu issues
2020-06-24 15:11:26		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 15:11:37	acdw	I've never seen phishing on IRC before
2020-06-24 15:12:21	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 15:12:21	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-06-24 15:12:44	~tiwesdaeg	hmm
2020-06-24 15:13:06		tiwesdaeg has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 15:13:29	acdw	hi, bye
2020-06-24 15:13:42	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 15:13:42	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-06-24 15:13:50	~tiwesdaeg	ok
2020-06-24 15:14:02	~tiwesdaeg	I guess we're just using tmux
2020-06-24 15:14:36	acdw	tmux is pretty good
2020-06-24 15:14:43	acdw	is byobu screen?
2020-06-24 15:15:22	~tiwesdaeg	it uses tmux or screen
2020-06-24 15:15:36	~tiwesdaeg	it was not behaving right on freebsd
2020-06-24 15:16:08	acdw	oh cool, but also lame
2020-06-24 15:16:11	acdw	that it won't work
2020-06-24 15:16:52	~tiwesdaeg	the text is sort of not being cleared right on the display
2020-06-24 15:18:13	acdw	oh weird -- terminals are weird
2020-06-24 15:19:53	~tiwesdaeg	they sure are
2020-06-24 15:20:27	~tiwesdaeg	now to see if I can figure out why kristall isn't displaying utf-8 characters in freebsd
2020-06-24 15:20:58		cutegirl has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-24 15:21:45	makeworld	Konpeito down again :/
2020-06-24 15:22:02	~tiwesdaeg	pink was down this morning
2020-06-24 15:22:17	~tiwesdaeg	looks like there was a reboot of some sort
2020-06-24 15:22:30	~tiwesdaeg	the server was running, but not serving anything and needed a restart
2020-06-24 15:25:36		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 15:26:39	ℹ 	jan6 is now known as cutestboy
2020-06-24 15:29:19		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 15:31:28	ℹ 	cutestboy is now known as _
2020-06-24 15:32:17	ℹ 	_ is now known as jan6
2020-06-24 16:47:09		kensanata has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 17:28:16	makeworld	It's kinda annoying that the cert status codes were changed in a non-backwards compatible wa
2020-06-24 17:28:18	makeworld	*way
2020-06-24 17:28:50	makeworld	Like now 61 is CERTIFICATE NOT AUTHORISED
2020-06-24 17:29:03	makeworld	While before it used to be TRANSIENT CERTIFICATE REQUESTED
2020-06-24 17:29:20	makeworld	So now gemini://mozz.us/tls/ is broken for example
2020-06-24 17:29:35	makeworld	But I suppose stuff changing is just how new protocols are
2020-06-24 17:32:34	jan6	that's what protocol versioning is for ;P
2020-06-24 17:32:38	xfnw	lol
2020-06-24 17:32:43	jan6	idk why it's not a part of gemini, lol
2020-06-24 17:32:56	⚡	xfnw is now known as jan7
2020-06-24 17:33:10	jan6	v1 <url>
2020-06-24 17:33:14	jan6	instead of <url>
2020-06-24 17:33:18	jan6	or such ;P
2020-06-24 17:33:36	xfnw	HTTP/1.1 GET /jan6
2020-06-24 17:33:42	jan6	no
2020-06-24 17:35:35	xfnw	why does gemini have its own protocol? wouldint it basically be the same as https but setting the content-type to text/gemini?
2020-06-24 17:36:36	@xq	xfnw: no, not at all
2020-06-24 17:36:46	@xq	gemini is a delivery protocol such as HTTP
2020-06-24 17:36:52	@xq	but it's by far not as expandable as HTTP
2020-06-24 17:37:10	xfnw	hm
2020-06-24 17:37:18	@xq	only one mandatory header (Content-Type), no optional headers
2020-06-24 17:37:29	@xq	text/gemini is a docment type
2020-06-24 17:37:39	@xq	(i still find that double-naming problematic)
2020-06-24 17:37:55	@xq	i vote for crewtext
2020-06-24 17:39:50	jan6	yeah, I'd also prefer if there was clear separation
2020-06-24 17:40:36	jan6	Gemin protocol with Pisces markup language?
2020-06-24 17:40:41	@xq	"text/crewreport" is the content of a gemini-served capsule
2020-06-24 17:41:51	jan6	Pisces astrological sign is usually seen as two fish, which would fit well with the Gemini being twins ;P
2020-06-24 17:42:14	makeworld	I think changing the MIME type is a bad idea
2020-06-24 17:42:22	makeworld	But it having a formal name would be good
2020-06-24 17:42:32	jan6	no worse than changing the response header
2020-06-24 17:42:32	jan6	lol
2020-06-24 17:43:08	jan6	I like my Gemini/Pisces idea
2020-06-24 17:43:12	makeworld	Yeah, so let's avoid doing more of that lol
2020-06-24 17:43:31	@xq	makeworld: i don't think it's bad changing it atm
2020-06-24 17:43:45	@xq	project is still young-enough to allow for that
2020-06-24 17:43:46	jan6	right now is one of the places to make the change, while there aren't TOO many programs already using the old one
2020-06-24 17:43:48	jan6	yeah
2020-06-24 17:43:59	makeworld	I think change should be reduced as much as possible, I don't think the name is a big enough reason to change
2020-06-24 17:44:07	@xq	it sparks confusion
2020-06-24 17:44:08	jan6	the later on, the harder the change, since there will be more and more of stuff that'll break
2020-06-24 17:44:14	@xq	it makes communication harder
2020-06-24 17:44:26	@xq	i always use text/gemini when i want to talk about the text format
2020-06-24 17:44:31	@xq	and gemini:// when i talk about the code
2020-06-24 17:44:39	makeworld	Just call it gemtext, or gemini text or something
2020-06-24 17:44:41	@xq	because when i talk about "gemini", you can't find out what i'm talking about
2020-06-24 17:44:48	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-24 17:44:49	⚡	xq still votes for crewreport
2020-06-24 17:45:07	makeworld	Although since both were released together, "Gemini" can refer to the project as a whole
2020-06-24 17:46:27	wgreenhouse	I think it's fine to have both the network protocol and the format be called gemini for short. "gemini protocol" and "gemini markup language" when ambiguous?
2020-06-24 17:49:04	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-24 17:50:26	acdw	I cosign that
2020-06-24 18:00:02		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 18:00:11	@xq	cosine?
2020-06-24 18:07:35	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/releases/tag/v1.1.0
2020-06-24 18:07:52	makeworld	New Amfora release, with bookmarks
2020-06-24 18:07:59	makeworld	Let me know what you think!
2020-06-24 18:08:07	makeworld	Binaries will be up in a moment
2020-06-24 18:08:32	@xq	makeworld: nice!
2020-06-24 18:11:49	makeworld	:)
2020-06-24 18:13:00	⚡	xq is currently migrating from one server to another
2020-06-24 18:20:54	makeworld	Gl
2020-06-24 18:21:12	⚡	makeworld going outside
2020-06-24 18:23:15	@xq	thanks, also good luck :D
2020-06-24 18:29:11	epoch_	a gemini response is a message/gemini in the world i built for myself
2020-06-24 18:30:30	epoch_	like, message/http
2020-06-24 18:31:11	epoch_	you /could/ serve gemini over http if you wanted. :P
2020-06-24 18:31:43	epoch_	printf "Content-Type: message/gemini\r\n\r\n10 search query:\r\n"
2020-06-24 18:32:07	epoch_	printf "Content-Type: message/gemini\r\n\r\n20 text/plain\r\nlol. what's the point of this extra header? :D"
2020-06-24 18:32:30	epoch_	hrm...
2020-06-24 18:34:05	epoch_	send a message/gemini over email, but how would it know what the base URL would be for if you tried a type 10 response? guess how a form in html loaded from a file would attempt to submit.
2020-06-24 18:34:21	epoch_	except forms can point to some other location instead of only to themselves
2020-06-24 18:37:07	epoch_	hrm... serving message/gemini /over/ gemini.
2020-06-24 18:37:13	epoch_	XD
2020-06-24 18:37:26	epoch_	could contain a chain of 10 responses in one response
2020-06-24 18:37:47	⚡	epoch_ makes an example
2020-06-24 18:38:24	epoch_	or maybe not
2020-06-24 18:38:41	epoch_	could chain 20s
2020-06-24 18:40:44	epoch_	if a gemini client handled message/gemini by opening the response in a new tab you could just have a script outputing 20 message/gemini and cause the client to open a bunch of tabs
2020-06-24 18:41:46	epoch_	at least asking "this is a message/gemini, do you want to open it?" would be better than automatic opening
2020-06-24 18:56:11	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 19:03:43	epoch_	disabled gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/datestream until I come up with a good way of making it exit when the remote end closes the socket
2020-06-24 19:04:02	epoch_	had just noticed it was running a bunch of times even with nobody attached to gemini
2020-06-24 19:05:05	jan6	epoch_: that's not how the gemini response would go, lol
2020-06-24 19:05:25	jan6	there's no point in wrapping gemini protocol into http
2020-06-24 19:05:33	epoch_	yeah, but eventually after getting 100 MB the person closes their client
2020-06-24 19:05:51	jan6	if you serve text/gemini serve text/gemini, if you want gemini statuscodes, use gemini://
2020-06-24 19:05:52	jan6	lol
2020-06-24 19:05:58	jan6	not some amalgamation
2020-06-24 19:06:18	epoch_	oh, you were talking about earlier stuff I said.
2020-06-24 19:06:29	jan6	wrapping protocols like that is pointless
2020-06-24 19:06:40	epoch_	maybe. I might come up with a use for it.
2020-06-24 19:06:55	epoch_	not saying people should, just a possibility.
2020-06-24 19:06:55	jan6	you could also make a specification on how to represent gemini responses as files and directories
2020-06-24 19:06:56	jan6	lol
2020-06-24 19:07:25	jan6	hmm, that might actually be a possibly SLIGHTLY useful way to do stuff, actually
2020-06-24 19:07:57	epoch_	if the gemini over http proxy was written in javascript
2020-06-24 19:08:03	jan6	naaaaaaaaaah
2020-06-24 19:08:07	epoch_	/it/ could handle the message/gemini header itself
2020-06-24 19:08:31	jan6	sure you can do anything
2020-06-24 19:30:22		xfnw|android has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 19:55:26	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 20:00:49		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 20:08:47	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 20:21:31	epoch_	so, I made a crappy gemini client over http using javascript
2020-06-24 20:21:49	epoch_	sure to make everyone that sees it cringe
2020-06-24 20:22:14	epoch_	:)
2020-06-24 20:36:58		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 20:42:22	jan6	lol
2020-06-24 20:42:30	jan6	this gives me an idea tho
2020-06-24 20:42:35	jan6	webassembly client ;P
2020-06-24 20:43:08	jan6	you can also run webassembly natively, with some programs ;P
2020-06-24 20:43:50	@xq	wasmer or similar
2020-06-24 20:44:02	jan6	innative
2020-06-24 20:44:10	jan6	or whatever
2020-06-24 20:46:28	@xq	but: yu still need JS glue between Wasm and your server
2020-06-24 20:47:06	jan6	not sure if webassembly would need websockets to connect directly, like I think normal javascript would... (which is why stuff like overbiteNX need a native component, because web stuffs can't connect to arbitrary tcp ports)
2020-06-24 20:53:47	@xq	yes, it does
2020-06-24 20:53:52	@xq	wasm is perfectly sandboxed
2020-06-24 20:53:57	@xq	it has *NO* system interface
2020-06-24 21:03:14	jan6	https://github.com/innative-sdk/innative
2020-06-24 21:03:32	jan6	while a little spec-breaking, that can directly access host machine ;P
2020-06-24 21:04:30	@xq	funky :D
2020-06-24 21:04:55	jan6	https://innative.dev is the site
2020-06-24 21:05:28	jan6	it looks quite cool thingy, as y'know, call win32 API from wasm? lol, sounds great
2020-06-24 21:05:49	jan6	should be able to do similar stuff on linux too
2020-06-24 21:06:07	@xq	well, you techniacally can call those APIs from wasm
2020-06-24 21:06:12	@xq	when you expose them to the wasm runtime
2020-06-24 21:06:23	@xq	but the nice thing about wasm is: this is a opt-in action
2020-06-24 21:06:55	jan6	the not-so-nice thing is that everyone assumes you'll be running it on the web ;P
2020-06-24 21:07:21	jan6	"inNative uses its own unofficial extension to allow it to pass WebAssembly pointers into C functions."
2020-06-24 21:07:57	jan6	other than slight unofficiality, it seems great in a lot of ways
2020-06-24 21:21:07	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 21:22:20	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-24 21:30:53		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 21:44:07	makeworld	Uh oh
2020-06-24 21:44:09	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-24 21:50:51	acdw	?
2020-06-24 21:52:00	makeworld	Oh you just joined
2020-06-24 21:52:23	makeworld	People were talking about Javascript Gemini clients, or WASM clients, I was just making a joke
2020-06-24 21:52:33	makeworld	Oh also, I released Amfora v1.1.0, with bookmarks
2020-06-24 21:53:14	acdw	oh nice!
2020-06-24 21:53:17	acdw	yes sorry bout that
2020-06-24 21:53:27	acdw	oh a js gmi client would be wild
2020-06-24 21:53:35	acdw	not sure why necessary
2020-06-24 21:53:46	acdw	there's like no interactivity on gemini
2020-06-24 21:56:38	makeworld	I think the JS just does everything
2020-06-24 21:56:45	makeworld	Like the whole client runs in the browser
2020-06-24 21:56:52	makeworld	epoch_: Can you tell us more?
2020-06-24 21:57:04	makeworld	Got a source link or site where the JS is hosted?
2020-06-24 21:59:11	epoch_	https://thebackupbox.net/gemini.html
2020-06-24 21:59:22	epoch_	uses a CGI to actually pull the message/gemini
2020-06-24 21:59:49	acdw	oh I see, to make the browser do all the work?
2020-06-24 21:59:59	acdw	so like, portal.mozz.us doesn't have to render the page into HTML
2020-06-24 22:00:34	acdw	okay that's kinda cool
2020-06-24 22:01:01	acdw	aight I'm out, sorry for the run
2020-06-24 22:01:06		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-24 22:01:33	epoch_	inb4 someone points out the XSS
2020-06-24 22:02:20	epoch_	if that page causes trouble it'll just get deleted, not fixed.
2020-06-24 22:02:47	makeworld	Wait so what does the JS do, the renderering?
2020-06-24 22:02:54	epoch_	yeah
2020-06-24 22:03:16	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-06-24 22:03:24	⚡	makeworld borgers
2020-06-24 22:03:42	makeworld	See y'all
2020-06-24 22:03:46	epoch_	but it also handles the different gemini responses
2020-06-24 22:03:57	epoch_	so like, a 10 will cause a javascript prompt
2020-06-24 22:06:46		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-25 00:38:28	@tomasino	i actually signed up with qt and installed the latest version on here. ubuntu has a pretty old version in apt
2020-06-25 00:38:42	@tomasino	i see many tutorials included in there. I guess I'll spend some time with that soon
2020-06-25 01:30:13	~tiwesdaeg	especially ubuntu lts
2020-06-25 01:30:25	dozens	https://ttm.sh/Qj7.png
2020-06-25 02:42:40	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 03:21:37		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-25 03:39:03	makeworld	Ahaha
2020-06-25 03:39:10	makeworld	Someone put that on Gemini please
2020-06-25 03:39:15	makeworld	If I don't do it first
2020-06-25 03:44:27	makeworld	Hmm, looks like Konpeito has blocked portal.mozz.us
2020-06-25 03:44:35	makeworld	It will not load using it
2020-06-25 03:50:56	kayw	i wonder why
2020-06-25 03:57:04	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 04:21:39		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-25 06:25:42		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-25 06:25:44	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 07:11:43	@xq	hello!
2020-06-25 07:14:55	@xq	dozens: Lol
2020-06-25 07:21:31		gbmor has quit (quit: reboop)
2020-06-25 07:23:18	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 08:43:15	dkibi	heyo
2020-06-25 09:26:15	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx_] by ChanServ
2020-06-25 09:26:22	ℹ 	julienxx_ is now known as julienxx
2020-06-25 09:26:55	@julienxx	howdy
2020-06-25 09:30:04	@xq	heyhoh
2020-06-25 11:21:16	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 11:21:45	kensanata	🚀🚀
2020-06-25 11:24:11	login	hi kensanata
2020-06-25 11:27:06	kensanata	Trying to render MediaWiki tables in plain text is... more than an hour or two of work, even if there are about a dozen libraries to do half of it.
2020-06-25 11:37:20	CommunistWolf	heh. I once wrote a library to output ascii tables, because none of the existing ones did what I wanted. dozen -> baker's dozen
2020-06-25 12:06:31	kensanata	I hate all that rowspanning an colspanning...
2020-06-25 12:10:49		kensanata has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-25 12:12:41	@julienxx	I used this golang library it was okay, it can output tables https://github.com/jaytaylor/html2text
2020-06-25 12:44:47	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 12:57:14	~tiwesdaeg	am I a bad person that I just ignore all the email marked mercury?
2020-06-25 12:57:53	@tomasino	nope
2020-06-25 12:57:55	Sario528	No,
2020-06-25 12:58:20	Sario528	If it doesn't interest you, then there's no reason for you to read it
2020-06-25 13:08:50	dkibi	tiwesdaeg: I for the first time looked up how to mark an entire thread as read xD
2020-06-25 13:09:39	dkibi	and in general: the good thing about mailing lists is that users can do whatever filtering they want
2020-06-25 13:10:30	~tiwesdaeg	nice ;P I just did that
2020-06-25 13:36:17	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 14:18:29		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-25 15:35:05		kensanata has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-25 16:30:00	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 16:56:52	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 17:07:18	▬▬▶	Shufei_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 17:07:27	ℹ 	Shufei_ is now known as Shufei
2020-06-25 17:09:01		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-25 17:09:26		Shufei has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-25 17:43:47	makeworld	Solderpunk said: I will reply to this whole Mercury thread tomorrow (probably relatively briefly)
2020-06-25 17:43:58	makeworld	That's all you have to know about Mercury lol
2020-06-25 19:00:50		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-25 19:53:17	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-25 19:53:19	@tomasino	so glad
2020-06-25 19:55:19	companion_cube	heh, funny one
2020-06-25 19:55:27	companion_cube	vegan cyclists carrying USB sticks
2020-06-25 19:55:45	companion_cube	content-based addressing is the futuuuure
2020-06-25 20:30:34	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 20:33:13	kensanata	I've improved the Wikipedia proxy a bit. It now renders tables... gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1967/full/en/Project_Gemini – let's see what your clients say. :)
2020-06-25 20:33:25	kensanata	It looks pretty good in Elpher
2020-06-25 20:34:40	kensanata	The only links it renders are the "main article" links.
2020-06-25 21:17:14	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 21:34:50	@julienxx	Looks good on the iOS gemini client
2020-06-25 21:36:11	kensanata	👍
2020-06-25 21:44:14	makeworld	@cam
2020-06-25 21:44:33	makeworld	companion_cube: I love that quote, I added it to my homepage at gemini://makeworld.gq lol
2020-06-25 21:44:44	makeworld	And shared it with my mesh networking group
2020-06-25 21:45:54	makeworld	kensanata: Tables look good!
2020-06-25 21:46:03	makeworld	In Amfora, anyway
2020-06-25 21:46:19	companion_cube	well it also makes me dream
2020-06-25 21:46:25	makeworld	Should be good in all clients as long as you're wrapping in a preformatted block
2020-06-25 21:46:29	companion_cube	so solarpunk :D
2020-06-25 21:46:30	makeworld	Yes, me too :)
2020-06-25 21:46:33	makeworld	Yess
2020-06-25 21:47:10	companion_cube	btw castor fails to parse your site, I think (maybe the content type is wrong?)
2020-06-25 21:47:22	companion_cube	it doesn't display buttons properly :s
2020-06-25 21:47:26	companion_cube	links*
2020-06-25 21:47:33	makeworld	Mine??
2020-06-25 21:47:58	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/makeworld.gq/?raw=1
2020-06-25 21:48:10	companion_cube	yeah it's pure text?
2020-06-25 21:48:11	makeworld	Well there's the raw site, I don't see any link issues...
2020-06-25 21:48:21	makeworld	No that's the raw version
2020-06-25 21:48:26	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/makeworld.gq/
2020-06-25 21:48:30	makeworld	There's the rendered site
2020-06-25 21:48:43	makeworld	Seems like a Castor issue
2020-06-25 21:49:03	makeworld	Meta string is: text/gemini; lang=en
2020-06-25 21:49:15	companion_cube	so weird
2020-06-25 21:49:52	makeworld	Yeah, sounds like a total Castor bug
2020-06-25 21:49:57	makeworld	🤷‍♂️
2020-06-25 21:50:07	companion_cube	weird that it works on other sites
2020-06-25 21:50:13	companion_cube	gemini sites*
2020-06-25 21:52:43	@julienxx	Might be because of the lang
2020-06-25 21:53:14	companion_cube	ah possibly
2020-06-25 21:53:29	companion_cube	I miss web browsers devtools, I must say
2020-06-25 21:53:59	@julienxx	I know I haven’t put any code to handle it and it might fallback to a weird state
2020-06-25 21:54:31	companion_cube	ah, plaintext, I think
2020-06-25 21:54:37	companion_cube	it's your client? cool
2020-06-25 21:54:46		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-25 21:55:56	@julienxx	Yes, haven’t worked much on it these days but I use it all the time and so far it fits my simple needs :)
2020-06-25 21:56:05	makeworld	julienxx: How are you parsing the mimetype?
2020-06-25 21:56:30	makeworld	A in-spec parser should just ignore the lang parameter, I think
2020-06-25 21:56:42	makeworld	I just use Go's stdlib parser, idk if there's an equivalent for Castor
2020-06-25 21:56:44	@julienxx	String equality if I recall correctly (not at my computer atm)
2020-06-25 21:56:55	makeworld	Ah yeah that's probably the issue then
2020-06-25 21:57:08	companion_cube	you can try to split on `;` if there's any, and ignore the RHS
2020-06-25 21:57:11	makeworld	If you don't want to bring a full parser I think just using a string prefix instead will help
2020-06-25 21:57:28	makeworld	Like check if the string starts with "text/gemini" instead of the whole string equaling that
2020-06-25 21:57:53	@julienxx	Sure, params didn’t exist at the time so I’ll update that bit
2020-06-25 21:58:56	makeworld	Sounds good
2020-06-25 21:58:58	@julienxx	I think I do mime == text/gemini -> render gemini, mime starts with text -> render text otherwise download file
2020-06-25 21:59:04	@julienxx	Or something like that
2020-06-25 21:59:26	companion_cube	yeah just start with a split on `;` and a str::trim ;)
2020-06-25 22:01:55		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-25 22:04:43	@julienxx	So far my parsing is only regexps and strings comparisons. I wanted to go fancy with Parser Combinators at some point but later :D
2020-06-25 22:04:56	companion_cube	you don't need regexes
2020-06-25 22:07:00	@xq	whaaaat
2020-06-25 22:07:06	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 22:07:30	@julienxx	I do for the gopher part
2020-06-25 22:07:39	@xq	julienxx: that's my mime type parser: https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/blob/master/src/mimeparser.cpp#L41-L86
2020-06-25 22:07:51	@xq	it's even more complex than necessary, i should strip it dwn
2020-06-25 22:09:02	companion_cube	https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=f9d41ba0cf3ec377e0f93e877b30896f @ julienxx
2020-06-25 22:10:09	@julienxx	companion_cube: oh right I was thinking in the whole app, not the the mime part
2020-06-25 22:12:03	@julienxx	This is what Castor is doing https://git.sr.ht/~julienxx/castor/tree/master/src/main.rs#L208 208 to 229
2020-06-25 22:12:07	companion_cube	hmm, gemini is designed to be line based right?
2020-06-25 22:12:24	acdw	yep!
2020-06-25 22:12:24	@xq	yes
2020-06-25 22:12:26	@julienxx	Yes regexps are probably overkill
2020-06-25 22:12:37	companion_cube	especially since regex is such a long crate to compile 🙄
2020-06-25 22:12:37		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-25 22:12:56	@julienxx	But I need it for color parsing and other stuff
2020-06-25 22:13:21	@julienxx	ansi colors are hard when not in a term
2020-06-25 22:13:37	@tomasino	Regex ftw
2020-06-25 22:13:39	@xq	ansi colors are horrible horrible
2020-06-25 22:13:51	⚡	xq has once written a ANSI escape code interpreter
2020-06-25 22:13:57	⚡	xq has still nightmares
2020-06-25 22:15:39	@julienxx	Yeah totally, my basic parsing worked for kompeito but fails for astrobotany
2020-06-25 22:16:05	@julienxx	But I loved the hack so I wanted it in my client!
2020-06-25 22:17:39	@xq	oh
2020-06-25 22:17:41	@xq	astrobotany
2020-06-25 22:17:45	⚡	xq has to water some plants
2020-06-25 22:17:51	@xq	aaaand maybe implement color parsing
2020-06-25 22:19:02	@xq	oooooooh
2020-06-25 22:19:29	@xq	this is beautiful
2020-06-25 22:19:45	@julienxx	Wait for someone asking for some style sheets on the ML ^^
2020-06-25 22:21:16	makeworld	o.O
2020-06-25 22:22:15	@xq	hm?
2020-06-25 22:22:28	⚡	xq was going to implement some GSS for Kristall
2020-06-25 22:23:37	@julienxx	I meant someone proposing an extension to text/gemini with styling
2020-06-25 22:25:53	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 22:32:10	@xq	ah
2020-06-25 23:04:02		gernot has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-06-25 23:11:10	▬▬▶	gernot has joined #gemini
2020-06-25 23:11:46		thombles has quit (institute.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-06-25 23:11:53	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 01:33:09	krixano2	Ok, so DNS requests are sent in cleartext right?
2020-06-26 01:33:19	krixano2	So what prevents people from snooping on your dns requests?
2020-06-26 01:33:42	companion_cube	julienxx: btw I have some weird tearing on castor
2020-06-26 01:33:46	@tomasino	DNS doesn't have to be in clear text
2020-06-26 01:34:03	krixano2	I guess I mean that it's not encrypted
2020-06-26 01:34:20	@tomasino	DoT and DoH
2020-06-26 01:34:24	@tomasino	both encrypted
2020-06-26 01:34:30	@tomasino	use one of those
2020-06-26 01:34:40	krixano2	TLS on Gemini or http doesn't prevent this, and neither does it prevent the wifi hotspot or ISP from snooping on what you're sending unless we use DOH or DOT
2020-06-26 01:35:08	krixano2	Right tomasino, I should have specified. I was talking with someone else on here about how they think DoH and DoT doesn't provide any benefits
2020-06-26 01:35:36	@tomasino	oh, that's pretty silly
2020-06-26 01:35:48	@tomasino	i mean, there's been a horde of articles and discussion on that topic in the last year
2020-06-26 01:36:06	krixano2	Additionally, without DoH or DoT, isn't MITM also possible?
2020-06-26 01:36:24	krixano2	(well, maybe not, idk...)
2020-06-26 01:36:26	@tomasino	not really
2020-06-26 01:36:29	@tomasino	but it's trackable
2020-06-26 01:37:29	krixano2	So, if we are going to be so concerned about privacy in gemini, about whether people can be tracked for going to a bible or quran website, or whatever else, then we should be using DoT, because otherwise a lot of this is *sorta* thrown out the window
2020-06-26 01:37:50	krixano2	website -> gemini capsule
2020-06-26 01:41:29	krixano2	However, hold on though... what about ip addresses? Can those be seen by anybody over a network?
2020-06-26 01:42:21	@tomasino	yes
2020-06-26 01:42:31	@tomasino	i mean, that's how the computers talk
2020-06-26 01:42:53	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-26 01:42:58	companion_cube	unless you use TOR
2020-06-26 01:43:13	krixano2	So, DoH doesn't protect domains from being seen by ISPs, but it does protect against other people seeing this. However, other people can still snoop ip addresses.
2020-06-26 01:43:38	krixano2	So does DoT *actually* help anything?
2020-06-26 01:44:24	@tomasino	DoH protects domains from being seen  by anyone except the DNS provider
2020-06-26 01:44:29	@tomasino	that may not be the ISP
2020-06-26 01:44:42	krixano2	Right, but people can still see ip addresses
2020-06-26 01:45:14	@tomasino	yes, without some form of IPSEC
2020-06-26 01:45:19	@tomasino	but tunneling has its own issues
2020-06-26 01:45:47	krixano2	So DoT doesn't *actually* do anything, right? You can still see where a person is going from the ip address, right?
2020-06-26 01:46:59	@tomasino	if my TCP/IP memory serves you could see IPS frames
2020-06-26 01:47:15	@tomasino	but the contents would be encrypted
2020-06-26 01:47:20	krixano2	I don't really know what those are
2020-06-26 01:47:28	@tomasino	like individual packets
2020-06-26 01:47:51	@tomasino	it's been a REALLY long time since i had to learn about TCP/IP though
2020-06-26 01:47:57	@tomasino	um... 20+ years now
2020-06-26 01:48:06	@tomasino	i'm sure someone around here knows better
2020-06-26 01:51:52	krixano2	What if instead of making TLS optional, we made non-TLS optional for *servers*.
2020-06-26 01:52:31	@tomasino	i don't think there's even the slightest chance at all that anything but 100% encryption will ever be considered for gemini
2020-06-26 01:53:19	krixano2	The idea being that every server must support TLS so that any client that needs it has that. But users who don't feel like they need TLS can choose a non-TLS option if the server supports it.
2020-06-26 01:53:35	krixano2	Aka... whether a user needs encryption or not should be the user's choice, not the server's choice.
2020-06-26 01:55:28	krixano2	If we want 100% encryption, then we should be requiring Tor also, but I'm not so sure that will happen, so yeah.
2020-06-26 01:55:46	@tomasino	TLS accomplishes the goals
2020-06-26 01:55:51	@tomasino	gemini over tor is nice, though
2020-06-26 01:56:09	krixano2	If the goal is 100% encryption, then TLS doesn't accomplish the goals, does it?
2020-06-26 01:56:35	@tomasino	it does
2020-06-26 01:57:06	krixano2	Can you explain how it protects against what we were just talking about, DNS and IP addresses?
2020-06-26 01:57:11	@tomasino	you have privacy and data integrity between server and client
2020-06-26 01:57:14	@tomasino	that's the goal
2020-06-26 01:57:36	@tomasino	anonymity benefits from DNS and IP obfuscation would be nice add-ons, but the conversation is secure
2020-06-26 01:58:17	krixano2	But not privacy in DNS requests or Ip Addresses. Let's say I went to go to a site called "gemini://QuranIslam.org", everybody knows approximately what the overall content of that is.
2020-06-26 01:58:43	krixano2	Additionally, Literally all anybody has to do is point their own client to that same domain and get the exact same content I'm getting
2020-06-26 01:58:59	companion_cube	they don't get the full URL though
2020-06-26 01:59:14	companion_cube	only the domain (or just the IP)
2020-06-26 02:00:00	krixano2	That doesn't really matter... they can easily browse through the site and look at anything I might be looking at. They also can tell whether the site has the Quran on it or not.
2020-06-26 02:00:26	companion_cube	I think if you have secure DNS, it's a lot better already
2020-06-26 02:00:47	companion_cube	the server could ignore queries that don't provide the right hostname (and give the IP instead)
2020-06-26 02:00:50	krixano2	Right, all I'm saying is at the minimum we should be also requiring DoT
2020-06-26 02:00:53	@tomasino	yes, we should recommend DoT or DoH where people can use it
2020-06-26 02:00:58	@tomasino	but it's beyond the scope of the gemini protocol
2020-06-26 02:01:09	companion_cube	what's DoT? DoH is DNS over https I imagine
2020-06-26 02:01:13	@tomasino	yes
2020-06-26 02:01:19	krixano2	DoT is Dns over TLS
2020-06-26 02:01:26	companion_cube	ah ok
2020-06-26 02:02:14	@tomasino	once you get past that, ips talking to ips doesn't really leak anything
2020-06-26 02:02:21	@tomasino	you're just packets in the herd
2020-06-26 02:02:25	krixano2	DoT is *not* out of the scope of the spec because the spec is already putting restrictions on servers and clients. Clients should have to support DoT
2020-06-26 02:02:43	companion_cube	isn't it provided by the OS?!
2020-06-26 02:02:51	@tomasino	usually DNS is handled by the OS, yes
2020-06-26 02:02:56	companion_cube	I mean, I think I use the system's DNS API
2020-06-26 02:03:02	companion_cube	so it's not really my concern
2020-06-26 02:03:05	@tomasino	and when applications try to do it themselves you get the shitstorm like Firefox did
2020-06-26 02:03:05	krixano2	Firefox and Chrome had to implement DoT support themselves, as far as I'm aware
2020-06-26 02:03:13	krixano2	(correction: DoH)
2020-06-26 02:03:21	@tomasino	they didn't have to, they chose to and it created a big nightmare for them 
2020-06-26 02:03:24	companion_cube	ah yeah, DoH, grrr
2020-06-26 02:03:25	krixano2	Do OS's even provide DoT yet?
2020-06-26 02:03:32	@tomasino	yes
2020-06-26 02:03:42	@tomasino	all android devices can
2020-06-26 02:03:52	krixano2	Well, android isn't all OS's, is it?
2020-06-26 02:03:52	@tomasino	linux and windows too
2020-06-26 02:03:57	krixano2	Ah, ok
2020-06-26 02:04:08	@tomasino	i don't think osx has DoT yet
2020-06-26 02:04:13	@tomasino	but i haven't looked
2020-06-26 02:04:26	@tomasino	but anyone can DoH as well if you use a DNS provider that offers it
2020-06-26 02:04:29	@tomasino	like cloudflare
2020-06-26 02:04:55	@tomasino	I don't want my apps hijacking my DNS because i use a Pi Hole that then passes my requests along
2020-06-26 02:04:59	@tomasino	i want to filter them first on my end
2020-06-26 02:05:06	krixano2	Looks like only Windows 10 has DoH
2020-06-26 02:05:07	@tomasino	an app ignoring the OS breaks that behavior
2020-06-26 02:05:35	@tomasino	NLnet Labs stubby daemon or Knot Resolver, or getdns-utils
2020-06-26 02:05:44	@tomasino	those will enable DOT on Windows/Linux
2020-06-26 02:05:47	krixano2	How do you setup DoH/DoT in Linux
2020-06-26 02:06:04	@tomasino	systemd-resolvd
2020-06-26 02:06:16	@tomasino	/etc/systemd/resolved.conf
2020-06-26 02:06:23	@tomasino	it's a flag
2020-06-26 02:06:27	@tomasino	just set it to true
2020-06-26 02:07:01	krixano2	And why isn't that on by default? Do you have to make sure you have DoT support by your DNS first or it will break or something?
2020-06-26 02:07:19	@tomasino	yes
2020-06-26 02:07:56	@tomasino	i'd expect DoT or DoH to be near universally distributed by early 2021
2020-06-26 02:08:08	@tomasino	it's had a big roll-out and is gaining momentum quickly
2020-06-26 02:08:09	krixano2	I honestly doubt that will happen
2020-06-26 02:08:33	@tomasino	most major os distributions will handle it themselves and users won't have to think about it
2020-06-26 02:08:35	@tomasino	like Android did
2020-06-26 02:08:38	krixano2	I honestly doubt my ISP even supports it yet
2020-06-26 02:08:55	krixano2	ISP's in the US are extremely crappy
2020-06-26 02:09:28	@tomasino	they are indeed, but the OS can deprecate non DoH or DoT options and prioritize secure alternatives
2020-06-26 02:10:12	krixano2	But then people will complain that the OS is using an unwanted DNS server without their permission, lol
2020-06-26 02:10:15	@tomasino	looks like windows already announced that plan
2020-06-26 02:10:30	@tomasino	they've rolled out DoH in preview builds
2020-06-26 02:10:44	@tomasino	and they're recommending google's dns
2020-06-26 02:11:38	krixano2	How many DoH servers are there actually
2020-06-26 02:11:58	@tomasino	a handful of big ones, google, nextdns, cloudflare off teh top of my head
2020-06-26 02:12:15	@tomasino	https://www.privacytools.io/providers/dns/
2020-06-26 02:12:43	krixano2	This doesn't look like a whole lot...
2020-06-26 02:13:14	@tomasino	they represent quite a large swath of DNS requests online
2020-06-26 02:13:41	@tomasino	but more should come
2020-06-26 02:13:57	@tomasino	securing dns is good
2020-06-26 02:14:05	@tomasino	it's not perfect, but it's better than unsecured dns
2020-06-26 02:14:31	@tomasino	using tor is great too
2020-06-26 02:14:34	krixano2	What we need is for ISP's to be supporting DoH, but of course they're allowed to seel user data in the US now (afaik), so is it really in their intrest to do this?
2020-06-26 02:14:46	krixano2	* seel -> sell
2020-06-26 02:15:05	⚡	tomasino shrugs
2020-06-26 02:15:07	@tomasino	we'll see
2020-06-26 02:15:27	@tomasino	the US cares about money, so i'm sure they'll make the wrong decision
2020-06-26 02:15:37	@tomasino	ban encryption online and cripple their own infrastructure
2020-06-26 02:15:39	@tomasino	something like that
2020-06-26 02:16:00	@tomasino	but i'm gonna crash
2020-06-26 02:16:03	@tomasino	it's 2:15am!
2020-06-26 02:16:07	krixano2	I live in the US... there's actually some republican's in congress trying to ban encryption *yet again*...
2020-06-26 02:16:21	@tomasino	toss us your gemini server on tor
2020-06-26 02:16:24	@tomasino	start a trend
2020-06-26 02:16:32	@tomasino	i'd love to see that be more of a thing
2020-06-26 02:16:34	krixano2	How resource heavy is it though?
2020-06-26 02:16:41	@tomasino	gemini or tor?
2020-06-26 02:16:42	krixano2	My server is on an rpi 3b
2020-06-26 02:16:45	krixano2	Tor
2020-06-26 02:16:52	@tomasino	tor is very thin
2020-06-26 02:16:59	@tomasino	well, not a relay
2020-06-26 02:17:03	@tomasino	but a service on tor is tiny
2020-06-26 02:17:05	krixano2	Idk... I'll look into getting it setup
2020-06-26 02:17:23	@tomasino	i have info on setting up gopher over tor on my phlog
2020-06-26 02:17:29	@tomasino	it's probably relevant for gemini too
2020-06-26 02:17:33	krixano2	Oh, cool! Thanks
2020-06-26 02:17:49	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/phlog/20180427-gopher-black-on-tor-part-1
2020-06-26 02:17:59	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/phlog/20180428-gopher-black-on-tor-part-2 
2020-06-26 02:18:10	@tomasino	the only thing i'd suggest changing in there is generate a v3 onion
2020-06-26 02:18:15	@tomasino	they're more secure
2020-06-26 02:18:49	@tomasino	i use https://github.com/cathugger/mkp224o
2020-06-26 02:19:10	@tomasino	http://black6kfjetfuzaeozz7fs53whh7xtd4e27telrf5fg5kgdt5ah5plad.onion
2020-06-26 02:19:13	@tomasino	tilde.black ^
2020-06-26 02:19:21	krixano2	Ok, Thanks!
2020-06-26 02:19:55	krixano2	Honestly, what would solve all my problems with this encryption stuff is just getting TLS on TOPS-20 and Multics
2020-06-26 02:20:05	krixano2	But I'm not sure how doable that is, lol
2020-06-26 02:20:54	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-26 02:21:35	@tomasino	i need to read up on jetforce's virtual hosting config. Technically tilde.black is set up for gemini over tor already, but jetforce is only accepting requests from the tilde.black domain, not black6kfjetfuzaeozz7fs53whh7xtd4e27telrf5fg5kgdt5ah5plad.onion
2020-06-26 02:21:41	@tomasino	maybe something to do tomorrow
2020-06-26 02:22:21	@tomasino	anyway, night!
2020-06-26 02:22:22	@tomasino	good luck
2020-06-26 02:23:23	krixano2	Goodnight!
2020-06-26 03:27:08	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 04:46:42		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-26 06:08:52	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 08:54:48	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 09:01:44	@julienxx	hi there!
2020-06-26 09:02:08	@xq	heyhoh
2020-06-26 09:02:39	@julienxx	kensanata: I noticed there are some blank lines at the end in gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1967/full/en/Project_Gemini, I feared my parsing was wrong but it's in the doc it seems
2020-06-26 09:09:30	dkibi	heyo
2020-06-26 09:25:45		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-26 09:36:58	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 10:50:41	@julienxx	Reworked my parsing a bit and castor can now display tiwesdaeg capsule colors properly https://ibb.co/FXMvCFT
2020-06-26 10:50:50	@julienxx	do you know other colored places?
2020-06-26 11:05:02	thombles	oh wow, just tried out kristall for the first time (on kde)
2020-06-26 11:05:06	thombles	this thing is sophisticated
2020-06-26 11:06:22	thombles	and the source code spells favourite my favourite way
2020-06-26 11:07:56		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-26 11:07:59	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 12:11:21		lel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-26 12:11:27		Ekkie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-26 12:11:50		creme has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-26 12:17:11	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 12:19:14	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 12:20:19	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 12:42:06	~tiwesdaeg	julienxx: gemini://konpeito.media has a color option
2020-06-26 12:42:15	~tiwesdaeg	but it's not up right now
2020-06-26 12:45:29	@julienxx	didn't you have colors on your gopher hole?
2020-06-26 12:45:49	@tomasino	I have some on pink
2020-06-26 12:49:06	~tiwesdaeg	all the colors
2020-06-26 13:11:54	companion_cube	julienxx: are these escape codes? for the colors?
2020-06-26 13:16:54	~tiwesdaeg	yes
2020-06-26 13:20:12	@xq	tomasino: thansk for sharing https://ferd.ca/awk-in-20-minutes.html some days ago!
2020-06-26 13:21:27	companion_cube	so, the spec is simple, but includes terminal ansi codes? fear :D
2020-06-26 13:21:58	@xq	companion_cube: ansi codes are just not covered by the spec
2020-06-26 13:22:04	@xq	and are kind of a hack to style your gemini files
2020-06-26 13:22:07	@xq	Kristall doesn't support them
2020-06-26 13:29:29	~tiwesdaeg	they look very funny when not supported
2020-06-26 13:29:48	@julienxx	companion_cube: colors are absolutely not in the spec
2020-06-26 13:30:03	@julienxx	just a funny thing some users use
2020-06-26 13:30:23	~tiwesdaeg	I was playing with them in the early days of gemini when we didn't have very many browsers, but av98 supported them
2020-06-26 13:30:27	~tiwesdaeg	and bombadillo
2020-06-26 13:30:53	@julienxx	yes terminals support them naturally without extra work
2020-06-26 13:32:59		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-26 13:33:50	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 13:43:00		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-26 13:43:07	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 13:45:06	companion_cube	yeah, but it shows that every single small extension will be used and abused :)
2020-06-26 13:49:29	@julienxx	well you can't stop a terminal from interpreting ansi codes
2020-06-26 13:49:53	companion_cube	indeed
2020-06-26 13:50:10	companion_cube	it just means some gemini capsules (gemcaps?) will not be gui friendly
2020-06-26 13:52:36	@tomasino	You're welcome xq
2020-06-26 13:52:40	@julienxx	yep but that's not really an issue for me, if you use colors be prepared for some clients displaying garbage and let the user choose if they want color
2020-06-26 13:53:30	@tomasino	The smart ones do what konpeito did and offer both versions
2020-06-26 13:53:40	@tomasino	Astrobotany is a fine example
2020-06-26 13:53:48	dkibi	are ansi codes always safe? because otherwise it would be wise to filter them out
2020-06-26 13:54:01	@tomasino	No, they are not universally safe
2020-06-26 13:54:04	@julienxx	they're not
2020-06-26 13:54:22	@tomasino	You can strip them or strip noon color ones
2020-06-26 13:54:26	@tomasino	Non*
2020-06-26 13:54:56	companion_cube	if there was some basic styling in text/gemini the draw to ansi codes would disappear, imho
2020-06-26 13:55:03	companion_cube	but then, where do you put a limit :p
2020-06-26 13:55:48	@tomasino	I don't expect ansi color to be much of a thing beyond odd spots here and there
2020-06-26 13:55:57	@tomasino	Just like in gopher
2020-06-26 13:56:25	@tomasino	Though it is tempting to use it and unicode to make really detailed art
2020-06-26 13:58:55	dkibi	oh I should put something up on my capsule today, otherwise I break my "one update per week" target
2020-06-26 14:02:25		everbern has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-26 14:06:55	⚡	xq is still tempted to allow svgbob to be included in Kristall
2020-06-26 14:06:55	@xq	:D
2020-06-26 14:07:02	@xq	so you could render nicer ascii art
2020-06-26 14:10:33	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I tried it on some of my stuff
2020-06-26 14:10:41	@xq	results?
2020-06-26 14:10:45	~tiwesdaeg	I would probably have to redo a lot of it
2020-06-26 14:13:33	@xq	ah
2020-06-26 14:13:42	@xq	i just dumped in the astrobotany cover
2020-06-26 14:13:50	@xq	doesn't look good in svgbob
2020-06-26 14:26:20	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 14:40:55		lel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-26 14:41:09	▬▬▶	cremesk has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 14:41:37	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 14:42:00		creme has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-26 14:42:20	ℹ 	cremesk is now known as creme
2020-06-26 14:42:20		Ekkie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-26 14:44:14	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 14:45:27	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: you around?
2020-06-26 14:55:08	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 15:16:06		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-26 15:22:35	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 15:28:29	@julienxx	color support is nice with utf8 chars https://imgur.com/a/9zL60Vg
2020-06-26 15:29:25	@xq	i call that cheating
2020-06-26 15:29:49	@xq	julienxx: do you know https://github.com/hzeller/timg
2020-06-26 15:30:33	@julienxx	I didn't, very cool!
2020-06-26 15:32:29	@xq	it's doing exactly that :)
2020-06-26 15:36:39		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-26 16:01:45		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-26 16:01:53	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 16:09:51	▬▬▶	low_bg has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 16:18:09		low_bg has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-26 17:15:02	@tomasino	brilliant
2020-06-26 17:15:05	@tomasino	more of that please
2020-06-26 17:15:25	@tomasino	client certificate adults only ansi section coming soon
2020-06-26 17:24:50		everbern has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-26 17:28:19		bard has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-26 17:28:57	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 18:19:15		erin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-26 18:51:20	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 19:06:43		exprez135 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-26 19:07:01	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 19:12:44	kensanata	julienxx: Regarding those empty lines. I realised that Elpher does what Solderpunk said we shouldn't do: normalise whitespace between paragraphs. I like it better this way! :D
2020-06-26 19:23:43	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Around now, waht's up?
2020-06-26 19:29:42	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 19:51:30	@tomasino	xq: your plant is low on water. my can is empty or i'd top you off
2020-06-26 19:53:23	@xq	thanks :)
2020-06-26 19:54:19	@tomasino	so xq, i wiped qt from my system and then properly installed the latest version
2020-06-26 19:54:30	@tomasino	since the ubuntu one was so out of date and i needed a newer version for master pdf editor
2020-06-26 19:54:35	@tomasino	anywho, now make throws a fit
2020-06-26 19:54:36	@tomasino	:(
2020-06-26 19:55:45	@tomasino	something weird wiht qmake
2020-06-26 19:55:47	@tomasino	hmmm
2020-06-26 19:56:17	@xq	can you tell me the exact error msg?
2020-06-26 19:58:04	@tomasino	i fixed it
2020-06-26 19:58:09	@tomasino	probably not in the right way
2020-06-26 19:58:16	@xq	tomasino -v
2020-06-26 19:58:27	@tomasino	i blew away the qmake that was in /usr/bin and simlinked the one in /usr/lib/qt5/bin/
2020-06-26 19:58:40	@tomasino	make is working fine now
2020-06-26 19:58:52	@xq	ah
2020-06-26 19:59:01	@xq	you maybe need to set the QMAKE env var then…
2020-06-26 19:59:51	@tomasino	ahh
2020-06-26 19:59:57	@tomasino	probably something they'd want me to do
2020-06-26 20:00:00	@tomasino	silly ENVs
2020-06-26 20:00:22	@tomasino	oooh, pretty new heart icon
2020-06-26 20:03:12	@xq	:)
2020-06-26 20:03:24	@xq	i should continue with Kristall dev sunday…
2020-06-26 20:03:30	@xq	epoch_ derailed me with hackvr :D
2020-06-26 20:03:51	@xq	btw, if you have the *latest* version, you should have the new, experiemental markdown rendering :)
2020-06-26 20:04:43	@tomasino	oh neat
2020-06-26 20:04:50	@tomasino	i'll go check out kensanata's stuff
2020-06-26 20:06:04	kensanata	I've switched my wiki to produce Gemini output...
2020-06-26 20:07:32	@xq	tomasino: gemini://random-projects.net/torture/index.gemini
2020-06-26 20:07:37	@xq	there's a markdown file as well
2020-06-26 20:08:09	@tomasino	oh good
2020-06-26 20:08:16	@tomasino	i got distracted revoking certs for a bunch of servers that changed
2020-06-26 20:08:23	@tomasino	that process is a bit ... unfriendly still
2020-06-26 20:08:37	@tomasino	maybe on that warning page you can have a link to open the list and go right to that server?
2020-06-26 20:08:43	@tomasino	or even a 1-click revoke
2020-06-26 20:12:43	@tomasino	kensanata: your gemini version is now my favorite of your sites to consume
2020-06-26 20:13:14	@xq	tomasino: yeah, revoking isn't perfect yet
2020-06-26 20:13:30	@tomasino	it's certainly doable
2020-06-26 20:13:42	@xq	in theory, it's better this way
2020-06-26 20:13:43	@tomasino	i'm not really sure what that experience should be like, to be fair
2020-06-26 20:13:47	@xq	but right now it's annoying
2020-06-26 20:14:01	@tomasino	i don't want it to do nothing, cause that would be horrible
2020-06-26 20:14:21	kensanata	tomasino: I have to confess, I really like zipping around Geminispace as well. :D
2020-06-26 20:16:20	@tomasino	oh, kensanata -- https://dungeonscrawl.com/
2020-06-26 20:16:27	@tomasino	in case it wasn't on your radar already
2020-06-26 20:19:10	kensanata	tomasino: Oh wow, that looks great!
2020-06-26 20:19:27	@tomasino	It's spectacular
2020-06-26 20:19:46	@tomasino	I played with it yesterday and the claim is true. I made a full dungeon in 10 min
2020-06-26 20:21:03	kensanata	Awesome.
2020-06-26 20:54:42	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 21:01:34	acdw	hello geminauts
2020-06-26 21:03:55	@xq	hello acdw
2020-06-26 21:04:31	acdw	how's the space? I gotta say I've been checking CAPCOM like crazy and I am reading thru the content way too fast
2020-06-26 21:07:28	@tomasino	yo
2020-06-26 21:07:34	@tomasino	good good
2020-06-26 21:07:41	@tomasino	i'm gonna do another of christina's questions tonight
2020-06-26 21:08:25	krixano2	Why did my username change to krixano2?
2020-06-26 21:08:30	@tomasino	magic
2020-06-26 21:08:42	acdw	oh that's right -- you're doing them s l o w
2020-06-26 21:08:55	krixano2	I think users disconnect and reconnect at midnight or something?
2020-06-26 21:09:14	krixano2	But... my normal username wouldn't have been in use then...
2020-06-26 21:10:04	krixano2	> I think users disconnect and reconnect at midnight or something?
2020-06-26 21:10:10	krixano2	Actually, that's not true I guess
2020-06-26 21:10:22	krixano2	It seemed like it one day though...
2020-06-26 21:17:45	acdw	can you change your nick back?
2020-06-26 21:18:54	ℹ 	xq is now known as krixano
2020-06-26 21:18:56	@krixano	no he cant!
2020-06-26 21:18:58	@krixano	*rofl*
2020-06-26 21:19:01	ℹ 	krixano is now known as xq
2020-06-26 21:20:14	acdw	:O
2020-06-26 21:47:31	@tomasino	kensanata: https://ttm.sh/QZt.jpg
2020-06-26 21:48:02	@tomasino	basic layout in place... now i'm beginning to add "stuff" to the map starting in the top left
2020-06-26 21:48:39	@tomasino	my grid scale is unimportant since this is a fate game
2020-06-26 21:48:51	@xq	wow, crazy
2020-06-26 21:49:59	kensanata	Heh
2020-06-26 21:50:08	@tomasino	this was an underground bunker established by the british army during WW2 that has been recently vacated. This castle/building was a code-breaking center
2020-06-26 21:50:27	@tomasino	my crew of misfits will be exploring it in their upcoming game, unless they take another left-hand turn
2020-06-26 21:54:48	@xq	when you want to try if a Qt feature fits your use case and this happens:
2020-06-26 21:54:48	@xq	https://mq32.de/public/kristall-08.mp4
2020-06-26 21:54:58	@xq	this was literally 5 lines of code
2020-06-26 21:57:01	@tomasino	fuzzy bookmark findinG?
2020-06-26 21:57:09	@xq	non-fuzzy, but yes
2020-06-26 21:57:16	@xq	bookmark completions from the search bar
2020-06-26 21:58:03	@tomasino	that's awesome
2020-06-26 21:58:26	@xq	yep
2020-06-26 21:58:40	@xq	i'm thinking about adding a actual css parser for style sheets
2020-06-26 21:58:59	@tomasino	is there a benefit?
2020-06-26 21:59:16	@xq	readability and flexibility for the future
2020-06-26 22:13:54	companion_cube	well, made a package for kristall for arch
2020-06-26 22:15:41	@xq	*rofl*
2020-06-26 22:15:49	@xq	i can now install my own software via AUR
2020-06-26 22:16:20	@xq	thanks :)
2020-06-26 22:16:22	companion_cube	:DDDD
2020-06-26 22:16:34	companion_cube	well you might cringe at how bad I am at packaging
2020-06-26 22:16:40	@xq	i might be worse
2020-06-26 22:16:42	@xq	even
2020-06-26 22:16:58	@xq	but would be cool if people could help me out here with packaging for other distros :)
2020-06-26 22:18:39	companion_cube	this browser looks good!
2020-06-26 22:20:13	companion_cube	what's the diff between -> and => ?
2020-06-26 22:21:08	companion_cube	any chance of having tabs, xq ?
2020-06-26 22:21:54	@xq	companion_cube: press ctlr+t
2020-06-26 22:22:00	companion_cube	ah!
2020-06-26 22:22:09	companion_cube	middle mouse button doesn't open in a tab though :)
2020-06-26 22:22:19	companion_cube	but cool
2020-06-26 22:22:31	@xq	<companion_cube> middle mouse button doesn't open in a tab though :)
2020-06-26 22:22:35	@xq	working on that *in the moment*
2020-06-26 22:22:39	@xq	<companion_cube> what's the diff between -> and => ?
2020-06-26 22:22:40	companion_cube	heheheh
2020-06-26 22:23:23	@xq	→ is a internal link (same host), ⇒ is external link (different host)
2020-06-26 22:24:10	companion_cube	ah that's nice.
2020-06-26 22:24:28	@xq	yeah, you'll see some things in Kristall you will pretty quickly miss in classic web browsers
2020-06-26 22:24:34	@xq	also, you really should open the settings :D
2020-06-26 22:24:41	@xq	and check out everything
2020-06-26 22:24:57	acdw	xq: if I ever figure out Void packaging, I'll do Kristall
2020-06-26 22:25:08	@xq	♥
2020-06-26 22:25:44	companion_cube	I guess qt gives you a lot for free
2020-06-26 22:26:06	@xq	yep
2020-06-26 22:26:10	@xq	that's why i've used it
2020-06-26 22:26:17	@xq	was thinking about building a zig-based client
2020-06-26 22:26:22	@xq	but UI isn't just there yet
2020-06-26 22:26:36	companion_cube	ahah nice, I can still visit https
2020-06-26 22:27:00	companion_cube	I think a "home" button would be nice
2020-06-26 22:27:15	@xq	Ctrl+H does the job
2020-06-26 22:27:19	@xq	or navigation→go to home
2020-06-26 22:27:30	@xq	will be less necessary soon :)
2020-06-26 22:27:57	companion_cube	"Craete new certificate" typo in the cert manager
2020-06-26 22:28:39	companion_cube	no ctrl-f in the page, hmm
2020-06-26 22:29:13	@xq	ctrl-f is on the TODO
2020-06-26 22:29:21	companion_cube	wow, the certificate manager is amazing
2020-06-26 22:32:52		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-26 22:34:36	@xq	(Uᵔ ᴥ ᵔU)
2020-06-26 22:37:56	@tomasino	ctrl-f ftw
2020-06-26 22:38:04	@tomasino	xq is killing it
2020-06-26 22:38:48	@xq	tomasino: improved back navigation will come, too!
2020-06-26 22:38:59	@tomasino	rawk on
2020-06-26 22:38:59	@xq	(using cached contents and scroll position remembering)
2020-06-26 22:40:39	⚡	xq just removed the ability to click links 
2020-06-26 22:40:40	@xq	LOL
2020-06-26 22:41:32	@tomasino	links are overrated
2020-06-26 22:41:36	@xq	haha
2020-06-26 22:41:37	@tomasino	just have it randomly drive for you
2020-06-26 22:41:49	@xq	nah, the plan is way better!
2020-06-26 22:41:59	@xq	make middle clicks open into new tab
2020-06-26 22:42:05	@tomasino	oh please!
2020-06-26 22:42:14	@tomasino	i do that so much and then have to correct myself
2020-06-26 22:42:18	@tomasino	and middle-click to close a tab
2020-06-26 22:42:23	@xq	<tomasino> and middle-click to close a tab
2020-06-26 22:42:25	@xq	done already!
2020-06-26 22:42:27	@xq	just not pushed
2020-06-26 22:42:34	@tomasino	yisss
2020-06-26 22:42:39	@tomasino	i'm running out of badass ideas for you
2020-06-26 22:42:49	@tomasino	you're doing it all
2020-06-26 22:43:10	@tomasino	I'll give you my text processing algorithms and you can build an RSVP player inside Kristall
2020-06-26 22:43:16	@xq	have you looked at the ROADMAP.md? :D
2020-06-26 22:43:18	@tomasino	it's optimized for english, though
2020-06-26 22:43:20	@tomasino	nope!
2020-06-26 22:43:34	@xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/blob/master/ROADMAP.md
2020-06-26 22:43:36	@xq	check it out
2020-06-26 22:43:38	@tomasino	looking in a sec
2020-06-26 22:43:42	@tomasino	gonna jump on tilderadio
2020-06-26 22:44:01	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 22:44:32	thewetcrab	Hi, Anyone here got experience of running or using scuttlebutt?
2020-06-26 22:45:38	thewetcrab	Also pigeon protocol looks interesting and might be of interest to some people here - https://tildegit.org/PigeonProtocolConsortium/protocol_spec
2020-06-26 22:46:26		krjst has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-26 22:56:21	@xq	\o/
2020-06-26 22:56:27	@xq	middle-click for new tab works
2020-06-26 22:56:46		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-26 23:01:41	companion_cube	nice!
2020-06-26 23:01:47		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-26 23:01:57	companion_cube	scuttlebutt seems super complicated :/
2020-06-26 23:02:06	companion_cube	I wish there was a gemini-like simplification of it :p
2020-06-26 23:04:29	thewetcrab	Hi companion_cube 0/
2020-06-26 23:04:34	thewetcrab	good to see you again :)
2020-06-26 23:05:29	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-26 23:06:53	companion_cube	\o
2020-06-26 23:06:59	@tomasino	o/
2020-06-26 23:07:32	thewetcrab	o/
2020-06-26 23:07:40	thewetcrab	damn!
2020-06-26 23:10:20	@xq	you're doing it wrong. do it right:
2020-06-26 23:10:21	@xq	\o/
2020-06-26 23:14:36	krixano2	Yes, I can obviously change my name back. That doesn't answer why it was changed in the first place
2020-06-26 23:15:26	@xq	krixano2: disconnect, and too fast reconnect
2020-06-26 23:15:34	@xq	IP change → you're still connected to IRC for the server
2020-06-26 23:17:17		krixano2 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-26 23:33:55	@xq	haha, this push is gonna be awesome
2020-06-26 23:36:54		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-26 23:39:03	@xq	tomasino, companion_cube: Ctrl-F works, Middle-Clicking links and tabs as well
2020-06-26 23:39:56	companion_cube	nice
2020-06-26 23:40:04	companion_cube	however I packaged a release, not the git version :)
2020-06-26 23:41:09	@xq	reasonable!
2020-06-26 23:44:46		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-27 00:00:39	@tomasino	gonna pull
2020-06-27 00:01:09	@xq	next thing i wanna tackle is improved favourite organisation
2020-06-27 00:01:56	@xq	i know a lot of people like deeply nested folders, but i will probably stick to a similar structure seen in the cert manager
2020-06-27 00:56:09	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 02:35:06		anelki has left #gemini
2020-06-27 03:05:12	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 03:07:07		krjst has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-27 03:07:31	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 03:10:25		krjst has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-27 03:10:33	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 10:24:04	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 10:52:31	▬▬▶	inex has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 12:30:27	@tomasino	Who was I just talking to here about DoT and DoH? https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/06/comcast-mozilla-strike-privacy-deal-to-encrypt-dns-lookups-in-firefox/
2020-06-27 13:10:41	⚡	tiwesdaeg was out counting baby chicks
2020-06-27 13:10:55	~tiwesdaeg	5 of 7 hatched
2020-06-27 13:20:29	bard	What's the status of gemini clients on Android? I see none on F-Droid, but I thought I heard someone made one.
2020-06-27 13:24:12	~tiwesdaeg	there's deedum
2020-06-27 13:24:26	~tiwesdaeg	is that what you're talking about on f-droid?
2020-06-27 13:24:32	~tiwesdaeg	deedum is in the play store
2020-06-27 14:35:59	inex	even though it was hard i finally found it https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.snoe.deedum
2020-06-27 14:47:11	@xq	bard: Kristall is sadly not ready yet for Android :(
2020-06-27 14:48:38	bard	tiwesdaeg: I meant to say I found none on F-Droid, and separately that I'd heard someone made an Android app, and so I wondered what/where it was if it was not on F-Droid
2020-06-27 14:49:10	bard	probably not gonna bother with the play store but I'd maybe grab an apk from github or something
2020-06-27 14:49:49	bard	xq: has anyone tried to run Kristall on postmarketOS or some other distro on the PinePhone that you know of? I wonder if it'd be able to scale well
2020-06-27 14:50:04	⚡	xq needs to poke a friend
2020-06-27 14:50:24	@xq	it will probably work, but will be the same level of unpleasant as Kristall on Android
2020-06-27 14:53:11	~tiwesdaeg	xq: my icons are missing for back forward reload
2020-06-27 14:53:23	@xq	huh, weird…
2020-06-27 14:53:27	@xq	other icons are there?
2020-06-27 14:53:31	@xq	(like in the menus)
2020-06-27 14:54:28	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QLi.png
2020-06-27 14:54:49	~tiwesdaeg	also in the menus
2020-06-27 14:55:22	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QLb.png
2020-06-27 14:55:59	~tiwesdaeg	I want to say there was a cert icon too
2020-06-27 14:56:56	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QLP.png
2020-06-27 14:57:39	@xq	weird
2020-06-27 14:57:41	@xq	what OS?
2020-06-27 14:58:09	~tiwesdaeg	manjaro
2020-06-27 14:58:30	~tiwesdaeg	I think it's fun when our builds end up different ;P
2020-06-27 14:59:02	~tiwesdaeg	since manjaro is just arch with a nice installer and some fancy theming
2020-06-27 15:01:32	@xq	yeah
2020-06-27 15:01:46	@xq	did you do a clean build?
2020-06-27 15:04:52	~tiwesdaeg	I ran make clean
2020-06-27 15:05:11	~tiwesdaeg	let me just wipe it all and try again
2020-06-27 15:07:10	@xq	i still assume that it's the WM doing things
2020-06-27 15:09:10	dozens	tiwesdaeg: i've been enjoying your gemini erisian content :)
2020-06-27 15:09:48	~tiwesdaeg	thanks!
2020-06-27 15:09:54	~tiwesdaeg	I need to post another
2020-06-27 15:10:08	~tiwesdaeg	the goal is to wrap it all up in to one book at the end
2020-06-27 15:17:12	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 15:21:01	makeworld	Hey tiwesdaeg, what did you @ me for the other day?
2020-06-27 15:26:29	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: your md2gmi script
2020-06-27 15:26:45	makeworld	Oh yeah, what about it?
2020-06-27 15:26:54	~tiwesdaeg	it seemed to ignore two spaces after a line
2020-06-27 15:27:02	~tiwesdaeg	which in md means \n
2020-06-27 15:27:31	makeworld	Can you send me a test example markdown file?
2020-06-27 15:27:41	~tiwesdaeg	sure
2020-06-27 15:27:43	makeworld	Also make sure you're using version 1.5.0
2020-06-27 15:28:44	makeworld	I probably should've named it md2gmi lol, you're right
2020-06-27 15:29:09	@tomasino	hiya
2020-06-27 15:29:19	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I was just guessing on the name ;P
2020-06-27 15:29:42	makeworld	Haha, it's actually md2gemini
2020-06-27 15:31:07	makeworld	Anyway, the proper behaviour is that for a paragraph divide, indicated by two newlines in markdown, md2gemini will insert a single empty line in-between
2020-06-27 15:33:33	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: https://ttm.sh/QLw.md
2020-06-27 15:34:35	makeworld	And what args are you running it with, what's the command?
2020-06-27 15:35:18	~tiwesdaeg	just -w
2020-06-27 15:35:42	~tiwesdaeg	so 'md2gemini -w file.md'
2020-06-27 15:36:14	~tiwesdaeg	it looks like two spaces was in the original and commonmark standards
2020-06-27 15:36:37	makeworld	Oh I see, so some or your lines have 2 spaces after them, which according the MD spec means "don't join the line"?
2020-06-27 15:36:47	~tiwesdaeg	correct
2020-06-27 15:36:57	~tiwesdaeg	that's a \n or <br>
2020-06-27 15:37:14	makeworld	Does it mean new paragraph, or just leave the linebreak?
2020-06-27 15:37:19	~tiwesdaeg	line break
2020-06-27 15:37:32	~tiwesdaeg	shouldn't be a space rendered between the two lines
2020-06-27 15:37:41	makeworld	Anyway, it could be an issue with the library I'm using, but it's more likely my code. I will file a bug and fix this
2020-06-27 15:37:45	makeworld	Ok, good to know thanks
2020-06-27 15:38:01	~tiwesdaeg	if that were the case, I would just put a space between the two lines ;P
2020-06-27 15:38:07	~tiwesdaeg	then I wouldn't have this issue
2020-06-27 15:39:21	~tiwesdaeg	it's really nice though being able to have the markdown file paragraphs formatted to say 80 characters wide, then converted to one line for gemini
2020-06-27 15:39:31	~tiwesdaeg	that part works prefectly
2020-06-27 15:39:56	makeworld	I was happy to see that too!
2020-06-27 15:40:22	makeworld	Ok, so I'll work on this
2020-06-27 15:40:37	~tiwesdaeg	thanks!
2020-06-27 15:41:08	~tiwesdaeg	I'm working on publishing in html and gmi for a project and want to keep the base files as markdown
2020-06-27 15:41:21	makeworld	Wait, which line has the extra spaces?
2020-06-27 15:41:36	makeworld	Yeah, that seems like a good way to do things
2020-06-27 15:41:37	~tiwesdaeg	line 3 does
2020-06-27 15:41:44	~tiwesdaeg	and ..
2020-06-27 15:41:57	~tiwesdaeg	31
2020-06-27 15:42:12	~tiwesdaeg	uh oh
2020-06-27 15:42:16	~tiwesdaeg	I think they got stripped
2020-06-27 15:42:29	makeworld	Yeah I was looking at the hexdump
2020-06-27 15:42:32	makeworld	They're not there
2020-06-27 15:42:40	~tiwesdaeg	freebsd curl didn't like ttm.sh
2020-06-27 15:42:46	~tiwesdaeg	so I copied and pasted
2020-06-27 15:42:49	makeworld	Ah
2020-06-27 15:42:53	~tiwesdaeg	let me add them in the right spots, one sec
2020-06-27 15:43:24	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/QLq.md
2020-06-27 15:44:06	~tiwesdaeg	ok, they were preserved in the upload
2020-06-27 15:44:30	~tiwesdaeg	I'll remember that when copying from a terminal program in the future
2020-06-27 15:45:15	~tiwesdaeg	nice, xfce4's mousepad comes with markdown highlighting
2020-06-27 15:45:17		tuesday has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-27 15:45:25	~tiwesdaeg	it shows the double spaces as yellow
2020-06-27 15:45:28	~tiwesdaeg	uh oh
2020-06-27 15:45:54	makeworld	What?
2020-06-27 15:46:02	~tiwesdaeg	my other client left
2020-06-27 15:46:40	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 15:48:56	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-27 15:55:40		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-27 16:33:10	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 17:32:56		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-27 17:34:17	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 17:41:08	▬▬▶	craigo has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 18:15:05	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: I forgot to tell you sorry, I filed this issue: https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/md2gemini/issues/18
2020-06-27 18:15:20	makeworld	I'll let you know when I fix this, probably today or tomorrow
2020-06-27 18:15:49	~tiwesdaeg	neat, thanks!
2020-06-27 18:16:37		craigo has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-27 18:19:19	makeworld	Welcome, thanks for finding it
2020-06-27 19:49:09	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 19:50:21	lukee	hi fellow travellers
2020-06-27 19:51:07	lukee	just back from a few days deep diving into gopher, polishing the gopher interface in GemiNaut
2020-06-27 19:51:41	lukee	read quite a bit of content along the way, to check it all renders OK
2020-06-27 19:52:31	lukee	Somewhat disappointed that Veronica just searches the gophermap entries. So most of the content in gopher is invisible unless you know what it has been called
2020-06-27 19:52:43	lukee	seems to defeat the point of a search engine to me!
2020-06-27 19:53:06	login	at once time, all search was only directory search
2020-06-27 19:53:13	login	the gophermaps are suppoesd to be good indexes
2020-06-27 19:53:22	lukee	At least GUS and Houston index the actual content. I think this is a real benefit of gemini - we have a decent search engine
2020-06-27 19:53:34	lukee	hi login
2020-06-27 19:54:06	lukee	yes but which ones are relevant? and you cannot index a whole article by a title.
2020-06-27 19:54:21	login	hi likee
2020-06-27 19:54:23	login	*lukee
2020-06-27 19:54:27	lukee	Somewhat ironic that Gopher came out of library services. But perhaps that is how librarians see the world!
2020-06-27 19:54:53	lukee	"never mind the content" what shelf is it on?
2020-06-27 19:55:00	login	only place where the content of books can be searched (at least, books published more than entirely privately) is google books and similar search engines)
2020-06-27 19:55:02	lukee	I'm being harsh
2020-06-27 19:55:21	login	how are GUS and Houston able to index the actual content
2020-06-27 19:55:24	lukee	I think gopher is cute
2020-06-27 19:55:26	login	and are those indexes in gophermap format?
2020-06-27 19:55:54	lukee	no those are gemini search engines
2020-06-27 19:56:29	lukee	they actually must pull back the linked content, and index that. Well the text/* content anyway.
2020-06-27 19:57:24	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 19:58:17	lukee	It's helped me understand some of the thinking in gemini, seeing what is done in gopher
2020-06-27 19:58:56	lukee	what are you all up to today?
2020-06-27 20:01:09		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-27 20:01:50	siina	Getting my first gemini page up
2020-06-27 20:04:01	lukee	congratulations - where are you hosting it?
2020-06-27 20:06:07	makeworld	login: GUS indexes the actual content by downloading it and then creating an index of the words
2020-06-27 20:06:30	makeworld	It uses Whoosh: https://whoosh.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
2020-06-27 20:08:09	lukee	makeworld: I just tested unicode bullets in windows.
2020-06-27 20:08:30	lukee	If I use cmder I can past the bullet character into the shell
2020-06-27 20:08:55	lukee	but then running amfora from within the shell I get the "unrecognised code point" character
2020-06-27 20:10:01	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-27 20:10:21	makeworld	I will add that to the issue in a moment, feel free to beat me to it
2020-06-27 20:10:23	lukee	just to confirm - its this one right?
2020-06-27 20:10:24	lukee	https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2022
2020-06-27 20:11:19	makeworld	Aha so actually Amfora uses U+1F784 by accident. In the master I fixed it to use U+2022 today
2020-06-27 20:11:34	lukee	windows default terminal seems to use "OEM 850 Latin 1 code page". and I can't paste the character in
2020-06-27 20:11:44	lukee	..into windows default terminal
2020-06-27 20:12:07	makeworld	What about cmder?
2020-06-27 20:12:15	makeworld	Like will U+1F784 work in cmder I mean
2020-06-27 20:12:30	lukee	yes I can paste into cmder. I made sure it was using UTF 8
2020-06-27 20:12:42	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-27 20:12:46	lukee	should I pull the latest from github?
2020-06-27 20:13:04	makeworld	Yeah, try that. I can also build a binary for you if you want
2020-06-27 20:13:08	makeworld	Up to you
2020-06-27 20:13:18	lukee	still you would hope it should even support U+1F784 as well
2020-06-27 20:13:37	lukee	I have Go here, so let me try to build it
2020-06-27 20:13:40	makeworld	Yeah it should, especially if Cmder works with it, it's strage
2020-06-27 20:13:43	makeworld	*strange
2020-06-27 20:13:47	makeworld	Yeah ok
2020-06-27 20:13:53	makeworld	What Go version? Just in case
2020-06-27 20:14:27	lukee	1.14.3 amd64
2020-06-27 20:15:54	makeworld	Yeah okay, should be good
2020-06-27 20:16:06	makeworld	And I'll add stuff to the issue, don't worry
2020-06-27 20:17:21	makeworld	Let me know if it works
2020-06-27 20:17:46	⚡	lukee is go getting amfora
2020-06-27 20:18:37	makeworld	Oh, that will take a while...
2020-06-27 20:18:43	makeworld	Lot of deps lol
2020-06-27 20:18:54	makeworld	That's the tradeoff I made
2020-06-27 20:18:59	lukee	I'll put the kettle on.
2020-06-27 20:19:05	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-27 20:19:23	lukee	there's no shame to building on other peoples work!
2020-06-27 20:19:45		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-27 20:20:01	lukee	unless you are at the top of a house of cards and you can't see the bottom beneath the clouds...
2020-06-27 20:20:30	lukee	Its one of the things I like about Go (I'm learning it at the moment).
2020-06-27 20:20:53	lukee	whatever deps you have... eventually you just get a single binary :)
2020-06-27 20:21:03	makeworld	Yeah, it's great
2020-06-27 20:21:09	makeworld	I learned it a little while ago
2020-06-27 20:21:18	makeworld	During quarantine
2020-06-27 20:21:47	makeworld	Anyway, at worst I'm annoyed at some of the deps that should be optional but aren't
2020-06-27 20:21:48	lukee	oh. the server "hung up unexpectedly". trying again
2020-06-27 20:21:57	makeworld	Hmm, what server?
2020-06-27 20:22:56	lukee	github then gitlab. Probably my flaky internet connection
2020-06-27 20:23:14	lukee	its built it now
2020-06-27 20:24:36	lukee	wehey the bullets are visible now in cmder :)
2020-06-27 20:26:42	makeworld	Ayy
2020-06-27 20:26:46	makeworld	Great!
2020-06-27 20:27:00	makeworld	It's strange the others didn't work, but I'm glad it works now
2020-06-27 20:27:44	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 20:28:05	makeworld	I'll close the issue if you're good?
2020-06-27 20:28:36	lukee	yeah - fine with me. If anything else comes up I'll get in touch
2020-06-27 20:28:37	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/NJnnt2o
2020-06-27 20:29:45	makeworld	Alright, great!
2020-06-27 20:30:14	lukee	Actually it looks OK just by double clicking, so you dont need cmder now
2020-06-27 20:30:24	lukee	but cmder is pretty
2020-06-27 20:30:43	makeworld	Wait does it work in Windows Terminal too?
2020-06-27 20:30:45	makeworld	The bullets I mean
2020-06-27 20:31:28	makeworld	Oh I understand, so it does work in the default terminal
2020-06-27 20:32:09	makeworld	Having it work with double clicking is nice, for regular command line apps users would have to open a terminal and find the binary first
2020-06-27 20:32:11	lukee	yes. This is what I get if I just double click the exe
2020-06-27 20:32:12	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/NAzYl2m
2020-06-27 20:32:34	makeworld	Oh ok nice, it just doesn't have the right colours
2020-06-27 20:32:53	makeworld	Hmm even in Cmder the colours are wrong though
2020-06-27 20:33:41	lukee	I also just tried running from the command line from Cmd.exe (old windows shell) and powershell - bullets fine in both
2020-06-27 20:34:07	makeworld	Great!
2020-06-27 20:34:21	makeworld	Idk how I ended up using the wrong Unicode character
2020-06-27 20:34:25	makeworld	Must have copied the wrong one
2020-06-27 20:34:37	makeworld	Bc they look exactly the same in most fonts
2020-06-27 20:34:42	lukee	I think cmder has some basic theming - it has a sort of dark brown background (semi transparent).
2020-06-27 20:35:30	makeworld	Hmm yeah, but Amfora should override that when it displays a colour
2020-06-27 20:35:38	makeworld	But I guess that functionality doesn't work well on Windows
2020-06-27 20:35:46	lukee	I can't say I really understand how fonts work in Windows terminal. Surely the unicode code point should just render if it is valid
2020-06-27 20:35:59	lukee	even the other bullet you used?
2020-06-27 20:36:13	makeworld	Yeah, I really don't know
2020-06-27 20:36:27	siina	lukee: tanelorn.city
2020-06-27 20:36:37	siina	gemini://tanelorn.city/~siina
2020-06-27 20:37:08	siina	Nothing really there yet, since I'm setting up other things at the moment.
2020-06-27 20:37:28	lukee	makeworld: Ah well. On to other problems for now then :)
2020-06-27 20:38:00	lukee	siina: a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step
2020-06-27 20:38:06	siina	As it always does :D
2020-06-27 20:39:19	makeworld	Nice
2020-06-27 20:39:27	makeworld	lukee: Yep, definitely don't care about that lol
2020-06-27 20:39:32	makeworld	Moving on...
2020-06-27 20:40:03	@ben	https://tildegit.org/user/sign_up
2020-06-27 20:40:09	@ben	i added a notice here on the signup page
2020-06-27 20:40:21	@ben	saw another person confused by that on the list
2020-06-27 20:41:26	makeworld	Yes I saw them
2020-06-27 20:41:41	@ben	hopefully this helps explain why it's not working :)
2020-06-27 20:41:43	makeworld	Why don't you put your email up on there too ben?
2020-06-27 20:41:58	@ben	ah not a bad idea
2020-06-27 20:42:01	@ben	that would work too
2020-06-27 20:42:07	makeworld	I didn't have IRC before this, email will be a lot more accessible
2020-06-27 20:42:31	makeworld	👍
2020-06-27 20:42:57	@ben	added
2020-06-27 20:43:13	@ben	whaaat
2020-06-27 20:43:15	@ben	irc is the best
2020-06-27 20:43:22	@ben	and webchat is linked there for easy access
2020-06-27 20:43:31	@ben	i much prefer irc
2020-06-27 20:45:03	makeworld	It's good, but lots of people don't have it is my point
2020-06-27 20:45:09	@ben	fair
2020-06-27 20:48:02	makeworld	Woah have y'all seen https://gemlog.blue/
2020-06-27 20:48:06	makeworld	Pretty cool
2020-06-27 20:48:12	makeworld	There was a post on the ml about it
2020-06-27 20:48:48	lukee	sigh - we need to be able to do this kind of thing *in Gemini*
2020-06-27 20:48:53	lukee	it is cool though
2020-06-27 20:49:53	lukee	at the moment, a lack of non-idempotent query params (like HTTP POST) limits it
2020-06-27 20:51:37	makeworld	The limit is on purpose, but being able to do it in browser could be cool yeah
2020-06-27 20:51:52	makeworld	Probably should be a separate protocol though
2020-06-27 20:51:55	lukee	well you can do that in gopher, before they adopted URLS
2020-06-27 20:52:01	makeworld	The titan convo seems to have died down which is too bad
2020-06-27 20:52:48	lukee	I dont agree, I think it is a missing piece of the jigsaw for building simple apps in gemini
2020-06-27 20:53:19	lukee	I'm sure it could be done if the will is there to find a way
2020-06-27 20:54:49	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 20:55:14	lukee	one idea I had was to say there can be an optional message posted to a gemini url
2020-06-27 20:55:55	lukee	so instead of gemini://server/path/endpoint?percent-encoded-idempotent-message
2020-06-27 20:56:23	lukee	there could also be gemini://server/path/endpoint<space>percent-encoded-idempotent-message
2020-06-27 20:57:14	lukee	and just like HTTP post we say the browser must not cache such Urls, and they are not shareable (due to space char)
2020-06-27 20:58:05	lukee	its not as rich as a full HTTP post with content-type/length params, but it would be enough for basic text based idempotent applications in gemini
2020-06-27 20:58:48	lukee	we could have wiki editing within gemini then, and other simple applications that go beyond "send this query to a search engine"
2020-06-27 20:59:56	lukee	urgh got my idempotent and non-idempotent mixed up there a bit!
2020-06-27 21:00:18	lukee	the URL is the idempotent one, the message submitted after a space is the non-idempotent one!
2020-06-27 21:11:34	makeworld	Interesting
2020-06-27 21:12:06	makeworld	I understand Solderpunk wanting to keep Gemini simple and mostly for reading though
2020-06-27 21:12:48	lukee	(I just created a new issue as I felt left out now ;-)
2020-06-27 21:13:08	lukee	(would be nice to support common keyboard shortcuts for back/forward ALT+LEFT/RIGHT
2020-06-27 21:13:59	lukee	I can understand that as a goal, but it is never stated that Gemini is just for reading.
2020-06-27 21:15:11	lukee	and besides Gopher had this, way back in the day. So, its not quite right to say Gemini is pitched between Gopher and the Web
2020-06-27 21:20:55	makeworld	Yeah, idk. I think it would complicate things, and I'd be happy with having a companion protocol instead
2020-06-27 21:21:03	makeworld	And thanks for filing the issue!
2020-06-27 21:21:04	makeworld	I replied
2020-06-27 21:23:58	lukee	A companion protocol could work, if it were adopted. It seems a way to kick the problem into the long grass if you ask me.
2020-06-27 21:26:08	lukee	and if complexity were a real barrier, surely all the TLS shenanigans would have been ditched a long time ago ;)
2020-06-27 21:26:37	lukee	anyway I should probably put the hobby horse back in its stable for now!
2020-06-27 21:27:24	⚡	lukee leads the hobby horse home to bed for the night
2020-06-27 21:27:24	makeworld	TLS is a different kind of complexity though
2020-06-27 21:27:35	makeworld	Ha
2020-06-27 21:29:05	lukee	its an interesting meta point of protocol design - which values get burnt into the spec and other left to one side
2020-06-27 21:35:54		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-27 21:37:15	companion_cube	this is a good thought experiment: if gemini was to become more popular, and thus more attractive to ad networks and business people
2020-06-27 21:37:48	companion_cube	how would the current community avoid new gemini browsers from implementing http-like spec extensions?
2020-06-27 21:38:08	companion_cube	(with upload, forms, etc. and maybe even javascripts)
2020-06-27 21:38:14	companion_cube	s/avoid/prevent/
2020-06-27 21:38:55	makeworld	Well the obvious place to add extension would be the mime type, as well as just the protocol.  So clients could send a URL like mycustomproto:// to the server
2020-06-27 21:39:18	makeworld	And the META mime type could have extra params, like 'text/gemini; mydata=foo'
2020-06-27 21:39:28	companion_cube	yeah
2020-06-27 21:39:35	companion_cube	embrace, extend, extinguish is a threat
2020-06-27 21:39:53	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 21:39:57	makeworld	Idk if it actually is, like it hasn't been for Gopher
2020-06-27 21:40:05	makeworld	But anyway extensions are possible
2020-06-27 21:40:27	lukee	the ad networks will much prefer the web
2020-06-27 21:40:27	companion_cube	I mean, if it ever becomes popular
2020-06-27 21:40:50	lukee	If aliens come and invade planet earth, how will we repel them?
2020-06-27 21:40:57	makeworld	Yeah I guess. I still doubt it would lead to a lot of extensions, but maybe
2020-06-27 21:41:38	companion_cube	ah well, lukee, that seems a lot more unlikely :p
2020-06-27 21:41:51	lukee	you reckon? :)
2020-06-27 21:43:44	lukee	I am seriously skeptical it will find mainstream adoption. That's fine
2020-06-27 21:43:54	lukee	its for us, not them
2020-06-27 21:44:17	companion_cube	I seem to recall
2020-06-27 21:44:30	companion_cube	that on the mailing list, solderpunk mentionned he'd like it to become more popular
2020-06-27 21:44:30	lukee	Ultimately there is no way of holding back the future apart from living in the past
2020-06-27 21:44:34	companion_cube	but yeah, I don't think so
2020-06-27 21:44:54	lukee	There is always a retreat to gopher+tls
2020-06-27 21:44:57	companion_cube	lukee: but you can design the protocol in ways it's less easy to extend :)
2020-06-27 21:45:14	lukee	yes that's the party line
2020-06-27 21:45:27	companion_cube	I liked thd point about "which values get burnt into the spec"
2020-06-27 21:47:12	lukee	thanks - the values are always there, sometimes hidden
2020-06-27 21:47:49	lukee	I think all protocols should state on page 1: "This is the final word on the matter, not comebacks"
2020-06-27 21:47:59	lukee	not -> no
2020-06-27 21:48:55	lukee	it is a challenge to pitch it right. Do we really understand who the ultimate market is for the spec? I think it is only a guess at best
2020-06-27 21:49:24	lukee	*people like us*
2020-06-27 21:49:31	lukee	techno-contrarians
2020-06-27 21:50:12	lukee	I think there is a wider audience of writers and mild-refusniks not just hard liners
2020-06-27 21:51:00	lukee	but reaching them is a challenge, when we've all been collectively trained on the web.
2020-06-27 21:51:20	lukee	network effects will ultimately determine the wider adoption or not
2020-06-27 21:58:01	companion_cube	and it's also hard to self-host if you're not a bit of a sysadmin
2020-06-27 21:58:05	companion_cube	(at least a tiny bit)
2020-06-27 21:58:23	companion_cube	someone could be the wordpress of gemini :p
2020-06-27 22:00:59	lukee	except it would be 3 order of magnitude simpler :)
2020-06-27 22:07:49		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-27 22:11:09	makeworld	gemlog.blue
2020-06-27 22:11:23	makeworld	There's your Wordpress :)
2020-06-27 22:11:37	lukee	I feel this conversation has restarted?!
2020-06-27 22:11:56	siina	That's what I was thinking too, lukee
2020-06-27 22:12:02	lukee	ha ha
2020-06-27 22:12:25	companion_cube	ahah interesting
2020-06-27 22:12:37	makeworld	Haha
2020-06-27 22:12:41	makeworld	Full circle
2020-06-27 22:12:53	makeworld	It's complete, no one say anything else
2020-06-27 22:13:05	lukee	agreed
2020-06-27 22:13:06	companion_cube	∞
2020-06-27 22:14:44	lukee	on that note, folks I think I shall leave you all to ponder the infinite. Its late here and I should retire!
2020-06-27 22:15:19	companion_cube	is anyone here on mastodon?
2020-06-27 22:15:34	siina	I am on fediverse, but not mastodon. :)
2020-06-27 22:15:41		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-27 22:15:43	companion_cube	it's compatible, isn't it?
2020-06-27 22:15:52	yeti	passively only...
2020-06-27 22:16:03	siina	fediverse is the entire ecosystem, companion_cube :3
2020-06-27 22:16:49	companion_cube	right, right
2020-06-27 22:16:57	siina	doas emerge --depclean
2020-06-27 22:17:01	siina	herpderp wrong thing
2020-06-27 22:17:06	companion_cube	am I supposed to say "someone on activity pub here?"
2020-06-27 22:17:25	siina	You can just say fedi or fediverse or wahtever. I think that's how most people I now do it.
2020-06-27 22:17:53	siina	But anyway: yes, I am and I think a few others are on there. :)
2020-06-27 22:18:16	makeworld	Apparently Gemini is getting some attention on fedi
2020-06-27 22:18:26	siina	Yeah, it's pretty popular around there.
2020-06-27 22:18:34	companion_cube	so how do I find y'all on fedi? :p
2020-06-27 22:18:50	yeti	ok... no longer tooting... account deleted
2020-06-27 22:19:19	yeti	was idling long enough
2020-06-27 22:21:25	siina	tastytea: the gentoo ebuild of kristall seems to be missing `dev-qt/qtsvg` as a dependency. I had to add it in order for it to build without fail.
2020-06-27 22:24:23		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-27 22:32:32	tastytea	siina: Thanks! Fixed it; it will be available in a few hours or days.
2020-06-27 22:32:40	siina	Thanks a bunch!
2020-06-27 22:56:50	@tomasino	Moo
2020-06-27 22:56:54	siina	ooM
2020-06-27 22:56:59	siina	Henlo friend.
2020-06-27 22:57:34	@tomasino	I'm tomasino@tilde.zone companion_cube
2020-06-27 22:57:51	siina	Oh right -- I'm siina@cute.science companion_cube
2020-06-27 22:58:25	companion_cube	followed both of y'all!
2020-06-27 22:58:55	@tomasino	And my new peertube is tomasino@peertube.dk , but my main channel is explorations@peertube.dk
2020-06-27 22:59:04	siina	ooh.
2020-06-27 23:00:09	@tomasino	I haven't decided if I'm going to put my Iceland vids up on the same channel or break it up
2020-06-27 23:05:40	@ben	tomasino: might be nice to have the original publish date in the video description
2020-06-27 23:06:01	@tomasino	Hmm, good call
2020-06-27 23:36:00	companion_cube	siina: using rofi? nice. I use rofi-emoji a lot 😜
2020-06-27 23:37:02	siina	It is next on my list to make an ebuild for :)
2020-06-27 23:37:21	companion_cube	ah, a gentoo aficionado, I see. Good luck to you!
2020-06-27 23:40:18	siina	Thanks. :^)
2020-06-27 23:49:34	makeworld	tomasino: Got a peertube instance recommendation for non-scandinavians?
2020-06-27 23:49:43	makeworld	I was all excited about that one until I saw that lol
2020-06-27 23:53:01		bard has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-27 23:53:07	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-27 23:55:11	companion_cube	ok, rofi-calc is cool indeed
2020-06-27 23:55:26	siina	Yeah
2020-06-27 23:55:47	companion_cube	I'm binding it to meta+c
2020-06-27 23:55:50	siina	I do a lot of unit conversion in my day and hitting meta+c and then typing what I need is so much faster than anything else
2020-06-27 23:56:03	companion_cube	😂
2020-06-27 23:56:08	companion_cube	same binding heh
2020-06-27 23:56:15	siina	It's a logical binding
2020-06-27 23:56:23	siina	meta+r for drun
2020-06-27 23:56:52	siina	rather, for `drun,ssh`
2020-06-27 23:57:15	@tomasino	makeworld: there's an instance finder tool that i used
2020-06-27 23:57:33	@tomasino	https://joinpeertube.org/instances
2020-06-27 23:57:38	companion_cube	the window binding is cool, too, to select a window
2020-06-27 23:57:44	makeworld	Thanks
2020-06-27 23:57:45	@tomasino	"filter according to your preferences"
2020-06-27 23:57:49	@tomasino	i did that and it pointed me at this guy
2020-06-27 23:58:00	makeworld	It's just hard to know if they will be reliable I guess
2020-06-27 23:58:06	makeworld	I used to be on one, but it's gone now
2020-06-27 23:58:39	makeworld	And before it went away, they made all videos manually reviewed for upload, which caught be surprise when I wanted to upload one time
2020-06-27 23:59:14	@tomasino	yeah, it's a bit hit or miss
2020-06-27 23:59:18	@tomasino	i like going with established ones
2020-06-28 00:00:00	makeworld	Which is hard to tell from that instance picker
2020-06-28 00:07:24	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 00:08:56		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-28 00:10:00	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: md2gemini v1.5.1 released, which supports hard line breaks like you were using. Thanks again for catching this!
2020-06-28 00:15:08	makeworld	I tested it on ttm.sh/Qlq.md and it works fine
2020-06-28 00:16:20	makeworld	Hmmm it seems ttm.sh returns an error if you don't have https
2020-06-28 00:16:21	makeworld	https://ttm.sh/QLq.md
2020-06-28 00:34:21	~tiwesdaeg	awesome, thanks makeworld!
2020-06-28 00:35:14	makeworld	You're welcome, felt productive
2020-06-28 00:36:54	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 00:37:55		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-28 02:37:26	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 02:38:55		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-28 03:02:03	▬▬▶	lawrence has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 04:19:53		lawrence has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-28 04:38:30	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 04:39:59		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-28 05:15:40		tastytea has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-28 05:18:17	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 06:39:34	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 06:40:35		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-28 08:40:07	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 08:41:37		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-28 09:52:33	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 10:08:23	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 10:09:52		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-28 11:08:25	@xq	hey
2020-06-28 11:34:31		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-28 11:34:33	@julienxx	Hi!
2020-06-28 11:36:33	@xq	hey julienxx
2020-06-28 11:43:45	@julienxx	I’m creating a new mastodon instance around Plan 9, a nice Sunday activity
2020-06-28 11:46:09	@xq	hehe
2020-06-28 11:46:24	@xq	would you be willing to give me a plan 9 walkthrough some day?
2020-06-28 11:46:39	@xq	i've read a lot of docs, but it's still kinda hard to get started with Plan9 anyways
2020-06-28 11:48:56		bard has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-28 11:49:17	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 12:19:38	@julienxx	Sure thing! It’s kinda hard to begin with and that’s why I’m making this 9til.de project so that people can have fun with it and share their findings
2020-06-28 12:24:07	@xq	nice :)
2020-06-28 12:24:14	@xq	also, awesome domain play!
2020-06-28 12:52:39	dkibi	plan9 was the other thing I looked at in high school and never got into it ^^ I even bought a three button mous
2020-06-28 12:52:42	dkibi	e
2020-06-28 12:53:06	dkibi	and nowdays the meming of the 9front people confuses me
2020-06-28 13:04:35	@xq	tiwesdaeg: i got the icon repro!
2020-06-28 13:04:39	@xq	\o/
2020-06-28 13:07:40	~tiwesdaeg	wooo!
2020-06-28 13:08:16	@xq	aaand it's gone
2020-06-28 13:08:20	@xq	it's related to the theme setup
2020-06-28 13:08:33	@xq	you just don't get *any* icon theme loaded
2020-06-28 13:08:41	⚡	tiwesdaeg smacks icons around
2020-06-28 13:09:13	@xq	also, i'm migrating the configuration to another folder
2020-06-28 13:09:21	@xq	some things will change on-disk for better handling
2020-06-28 13:09:43	@xq	e.g. document style templates/presets will be their own files
2020-06-28 13:10:45	@xq	and you can now cancel modifications in the identity manage r:)
2020-06-28 13:47:32	~tiwesdaeg	will it do my homework for me?
2020-06-28 13:47:40	@xq	sadly, not
2020-06-28 13:48:31	@xq	this commit will be huge
2020-06-28 13:48:36	@xq	and i hope i don't break enything
2020-06-28 13:48:37	@xq	*anything
2020-06-28 13:49:48	~tiwesdaeg	also, markdown rendering in dark and light themes looks great now
2020-06-28 13:50:22	@xq	\o/
2020-06-28 13:50:28	@xq	not perfect yet
2020-06-28 13:50:34	@xq	but the theming now works
2020-06-28 13:50:38	~tiwesdaeg	the text is readable!
2020-06-28 13:50:41	@xq	:D
2020-06-28 16:00:15	makeworld	Can y'all help me with something that's bugging me?
2020-06-28 16:00:17	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemget/releases
2020-06-28 16:00:35	makeworld	v1.2.1 has 43 assets, and v1.2.0 has 44
2020-06-28 16:00:43	makeworld	And for the life of me I can't see the difference
2020-06-28 16:33:30	makeworld	Ok, got it now
2020-06-28 16:36:46	makeworld	It'd be cool to make a Gemini mapper
2020-06-28 16:37:07	makeworld	Like it crawls gemini like GUS, but at the end creates a giant graph, with GraphViz or something
2020-06-28 16:37:23	makeworld	So we can actually visualize the connections
2020-06-28 16:37:35	makeworld	The Web is wayy to big for that, but it could work for Gemini
2020-06-28 16:38:29	makeworld	I'd also like to make a script that saves the GUS stats every day and graphs them
2020-06-28 16:43:04	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 16:44:29		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-28 16:48:27	inex	makeworld: gemget-dragonfly-amd64
2020-06-28 16:49:10	makeworld	Thanks, yeah I realized that a bit after
2020-06-28 16:49:16	makeworld	I kept skipping over it
2020-06-28 17:10:42	@xq	<makeworld> Like it crawls gemini like GUS, but at the end creates a giant graph, with GraphViz or something
2020-06-28 17:10:48	@xq	i wanted to do something like that as well
2020-06-28 17:10:53	@xq	gemini network visualization
2020-06-28 17:12:52	makeworld	Yeah, it would be very cool
2020-06-28 17:20:13	▬▬▶	dax has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 17:29:04	kensanata	I wonder how that scales...
2020-06-28 17:29:28		dacav has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-28 17:29:51	kensanata	I always found that GraphViz and other such methods fail as soon as you have more than a few dozen pages. Let alone thousands.
2020-06-28 17:30:16	kensanata	On a different note, my wiki now allows file uploads of binary files as well...
2020-06-28 17:30:22	@xq	i would create only a host-linking map
2020-06-28 17:30:27	@xq	not a page-linking map
2020-06-28 17:30:37	kensanata	Ah
2020-06-28 17:38:41	makeworld	Yes, that's what I was thinking as well
2020-06-28 17:39:18	makeworld	Potentially you could try and do a user linking map, where you detect /users/ URLs, but that would be just for extra stuff
2020-06-28 17:50:25	▬▬▶	Shufei has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 17:54:12	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 17:55:03		Shufei has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-28 17:56:46	xj9	julienxx: plan9 themed or using plan9 programs as infrastructure?
2020-06-28 17:57:08	xj9	are there any AP servers that run in plan9?
2020-06-28 17:58:24	xj9	i've been looking into using p9p fossil/venti for backups and object storage on social.sunshinegardens.org
2020-06-28 17:58:44	xj9	needs a bunch of fixes to work on alpine though, so it might be a while lol
2020-06-28 18:49:16	@julienxx	xj9: plan9 themed, I don’t think there is a way to host activity pub stuff without JS
2020-06-28 18:49:25	@julienxx	Maybe Honk could work
2020-06-28 18:52:10	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 18:52:24	lukee	evening all!
2020-06-28 18:53:18	lukee	I like the idea of a graph of the gemini hypertext-in-the-large.
2020-06-28 18:54:03	lukee	It wouldnt have to be visualised to be useful. I agree visualisation might be difficiult especially as it scales, but there are things that can be done, like collapsing many sub nodes into a domain node
2020-06-28 18:54:50	lukee	Also it could also be used as an architecture to capture comments and responses. You would be able to have a link on a page which queried the graph to discover who has linked to the current page.
2020-06-28 18:55:22	lukee	At the moment the commenting and responding infrastructure in gemini is a bit... limited
2020-06-28 19:05:03		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-28 19:08:06	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 19:22:15		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-28 19:23:00	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 19:33:02		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-28 20:29:42	makeworld	lukee: I've talked about something like that before on this chat
2020-06-28 20:29:53	makeworld	It would crawl looking for posts that replied to other posts
2020-06-28 20:30:28	makeworld	Hmm this could be useful as a service, where you enter your post URL and it would show all the places that linked to it
2020-06-28 20:34:26	lukee	it would help with the ongoing conversation mentioned on the mailing list of "how do I know if someone replied to my post"
2020-06-28 20:34:54	lukee	A sort of back-links service
2020-06-28 20:36:25	makeworld	Yeah exactly
2020-06-28 20:36:36	makeworld	I remember talking about this before, I even made a note of it
2020-06-28 20:36:51	makeworld	I think tomasino suggested the name "uberthreadz"
2020-06-28 20:37:12	@tomasino	Heehee, I did!
2020-06-28 20:39:34	makeworld	In my notes I wrote that we started talking about it at 2020-06-02T21:47:00.736Z , if you have logs lukee
2020-06-28 20:39:50	@tomasino	Tricky parsing stuff
2020-06-28 20:40:31	@tomasino	You might check if a backlink has a high ratio of link lines to non link lines to cut out listing pages
2020-06-28 20:41:03	makeworld	Yeah that's what I remember, that it got complicated fast
2020-06-28 20:41:22	makeworld	But I think the complications mainly stemmed from trying to decide if something actually was a response or not
2020-06-28 20:41:31	makeworld	Versus just a regular link
2020-06-28 20:41:35	@tomasino	Right
2020-06-28 20:41:46	makeworld	But if someone's making a crawler that maps everything, it's not such a big deal
2020-06-28 20:41:57	makeworld	You can just ask for all pages that link to mine, and filter them out yourself
2020-06-28 20:42:09	makeworld	Hmm....
2020-06-28 20:42:18	@tomasino	If I link to your post from capcom, your back link thing gets messy
2020-06-28 20:42:39	@tomasino	Unless you can invalidate nodes like that
2020-06-28 20:42:41	lukee	makeworld: I dont have all the IRC logs - is there a way to get them?
2020-06-28 20:42:43	makeworld	Yeah, but if you're just asking for all the links, you can just filter past it
2020-06-28 20:43:11	makeworld	Like it doesn't work well as a notification system, but it could work if I just want to see if other people have linked to it
2020-06-28 20:43:28	@tomasino	If it's a single step thing sure
2020-06-28 20:43:36	makeworld	lukee: I can send you them, and I think tomasino keeps them too?
2020-06-28 20:43:37	@tomasino	I thought you were creating a thread
2020-06-28 20:43:48	makeworld	Yeah, I guess these are different things
2020-06-28 20:44:08	makeworld	I was starting to picture a tool where you just enter a URL as input and it lists all the pages that link to it
2020-06-28 20:44:11	@tomasino	A simple back link detection could be a function of gus
2020-06-28 20:44:22	makeworld	But "uberthreadz" was more advanced, I remember now
2020-06-28 20:44:35	makeworld	It would create a page of threaded responses and stuff
2020-06-28 20:44:37	makeworld	Yeesh
2020-06-28 20:44:43	@tomasino	Exactly
2020-06-28 20:44:56	@tomasino	Which would be awesome and super difficult
2020-06-28 20:45:15	makeworld	The perfect job for ~someone else~
2020-06-28 20:45:21	lukee	Does the UI have to be too complex?
2020-06-28 20:45:47	makeworld	What do you mean?
2020-06-28 20:46:00	lukee	Just pass a query of the URI to the backlinks server and you get a list of pages that point to it?
2020-06-28 20:46:07	lukee	am I missing something here?
2020-06-28 20:46:17	makeworld	That's the simple version
2020-06-28 20:46:31	lukee	maybe it is enough to be useful
2020-06-28 20:46:34	makeworld	The version tomasino and I talked about before was more featureful
2020-06-28 20:46:36	makeworld	Yes definitely
2020-06-28 20:46:45	makeworld	GUS should add that as a feature
2020-06-28 20:46:50	lukee	There could be other front ends to that that had filters etc
2020-06-28 20:47:11	lukee	after all GMI output is easy to parse and filter
2020-06-28 20:47:19	makeworld	The more complicated version would try to look at all the links and determine what is a response and what is not, and the order and threading of the responses
2020-06-28 20:47:24	@tomasino	A reverse crawl, identifying links that are part of a conversation thread vs general linking and reconstruct it all into a single document
2020-06-28 20:47:39	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-28 20:47:40	lukee	that is asking a lot, but interesting
2020-06-28 20:47:55	makeworld	But I'd really like to see the simple version first yeah
2020-06-28 20:48:02	@tomasino	Indeed
2020-06-28 20:48:11	makeworld	Should I email natpen maybe?
2020-06-28 20:48:21	makeworld	Ask if she can add it?
2020-06-28 20:49:52	@tomasino	it's probably already a feature
2020-06-28 20:50:05	@tomasino	nat's got everything in there
2020-06-28 20:50:07	lukee	It would be cool if it could emit XML/JSON/RDF then we can build other UIs on top of it
2020-06-28 20:50:29	makeworld	Haha tomasino
2020-06-28 20:50:39	makeworld	There is a lot, but I don't see it there
2020-06-28 20:50:58	makeworld	So I think I might email, unless I actually am missing it
2020-06-28 20:52:19	lukee	makeworld: is there a way to put all the IRC logs into Gemini, not just the last N entries?
2020-06-28 20:52:56	lukee	or maybe it is frowned on if people prefer IRC to be ephemeral?
2020-06-28 20:53:13	@tomasino	certainly possible
2020-06-28 20:53:29	@tomasino	we talked at one point about auto-splicing up the logs with logrotate and dumping it into a folder somewhere in gemspace
2020-06-28 20:53:34	makeworld	Yep I can definitely do that
2020-06-28 20:53:46	makeworld	I could just serve the entire file that I have
2020-06-28 20:54:11	lukee	would be nice, if not too much hassle - it seems there is a lot of useful chat goes on here...
2020-06-28 20:54:55	lukee	yeah why not (or weekly/monthly rotated might be enough if it is too big to be comfortable)
2020-06-28 20:55:12	@ben	if everyone's comfortable with public logging
2020-06-28 20:55:14	@ben	then go ahead
2020-06-28 20:55:23	@ben	please note in the topic if there are public logs
2020-06-28 20:55:49	ℹ 	tomasino has changed topic for #gemini from "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/" to "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-06-28 20:56:13	makeworld	Alright, my log file starts from 2020-05-03
2020-06-28 20:56:29	makeworld	I could try and stitch the log file I downloaded from tomasino in, but idk if there's a point
2020-06-28 20:56:41	@tomasino	more history
2020-06-28 20:56:43	@tomasino	:)
2020-06-28 20:56:53	@tomasino	but you're not using weechat, right?
2020-06-28 20:57:10	makeworld	No I'm not, so it would look different
2020-06-28 20:57:31	@ben	i have logs starting 2019-09-05
2020-06-28 20:57:42	@tomasino	oh, hey, tomasino.org is on gemini now
2020-06-28 20:57:46	@tomasino	i could link my log there
2020-06-28 20:57:48	@tomasino	one sec
2020-06-28 20:57:58	@tomasino	oh, wait...
2020-06-28 20:57:58	@tomasino	no
2020-06-28 20:58:04	@tomasino	tomasino.org is using that ncat thing
2020-06-28 20:58:08	@tomasino	nevermind
2020-06-28 20:58:21	@tomasino	i don't run any gemini servers for real-real on this vps
2020-06-28 20:59:03	@tomasino	mine starts 2019-09-01, ben. So you're pretty close 
2020-06-28 20:59:07	@ben	mm
2020-06-28 20:59:09	@ben	nice
2020-06-28 20:59:16	makeworld	You should put your logs up too tomasino
2020-06-28 20:59:45	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 21:00:00	@tomasino	anyone have a quick one-liner to generate a key/cert pair with a domain I provide?
2020-06-28 21:00:09	@tomasino	i'll do a ncat solution on gopher.black
2020-06-28 21:00:15	@ben	certbot certonly -d domain.tld
2020-06-28 21:00:18	@ben	lol
2020-06-28 21:00:30	@tomasino	but that expires, doesn't it?
2020-06-28 21:00:35	@ben	ya 90 days
2020-06-28 21:00:50	@tomasino	oh, i'd have to deal with SNI anyway
2020-06-28 21:00:58	@ben	mhm
2020-06-28 21:00:59	@tomasino	tomasino.org has 1965 covered right now
2020-06-28 21:01:15	makeworld	Okay my full logs are up at gemini://makeworld.gq/irc/log.txt
2020-06-28 21:01:26	makeworld	I'll have a proper home page for them at /irc/
2020-06-28 21:01:36	@tomasino	i could make a cron ssh a daily snapshot of the logs to ~black
2020-06-28 21:01:39	@tomasino	that'd be easiest
2020-06-28 21:01:58	@tomasino	uno-momento
2020-06-28 21:02:25	lukee	cool! thanks
2020-06-28 21:04:17	companion_cube	that's a big file
2020-06-28 21:04:19	⚡	lukee peruses the history before joining the channel...
2020-06-28 21:05:27	makeworld	My log file is actually only 1.9M
2020-06-28 21:05:40	makeworld	But my upload speeds are pretty slow
2020-06-28 21:05:48	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black:1965/users/fox/irc/log.txt
2020-06-28 21:05:56	makeworld	Also maybe Amfora is slow for long files?? I haven't benched it really
2020-06-28 21:05:59	makeworld	Oh nice thanks!
2020-06-28 21:06:12	makeworld	I'll link to there on makeworld.gq/irc/
2020-06-28 21:06:41	makeworld	How big is it?
2020-06-28 21:09:54	@tomasino	1.8M
2020-06-28 21:10:16	makeworld	Hmm, wonder why mine is bigger
2020-06-28 21:10:26	lukee	tilde.black is faster to load
2020-06-28 21:10:48	@tomasino	it should back up nightly at 0000 UC
2020-06-28 21:10:49	@tomasino	UTC*
2020-06-28 21:13:00	@tomasino	that was easy
2020-06-28 21:15:10	~tiwesdaeg	new entry to the Quinaria Discordia is up
2020-06-28 21:16:47	makeworld	Nice
2020-06-28 21:23:42	makeworld	Was this the one that I helped with?
2020-06-28 21:31:36	makeworld	That long log entry exposed a perf issue in Amfora, thanks I guess lol
2020-06-28 21:48:18		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-28 21:50:36		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-28 22:09:56	@xq	tiwesdaeg: i've change some things in Kristall regarding the icon stuff. can you check out if the problem still exists?
2020-06-28 22:24:30	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-06-28 22:26:22	peterbb	Hey, do I have a really strange bug in my client, or did multiple servers switch from text/gemini to gemini/text. Am I going crazy?
2020-06-28 22:29:41	peterbb	haha, I know what's wrong. xD my fault.
2020-06-28 22:30:09	peterbb	I mocked my ssl-transfer function to test out some stuff yesterday :p
2020-06-28 22:30:34	@xq	:D
2020-06-29 00:06:48		bard has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-29 00:06:54	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 00:56:24	makeworld	I'm thinking about allowing the caching of URLs with query strings in Amfora
2020-06-29 00:56:37	makeworld	Cause right now that can't happen, it always re-requests if there's a query string
2020-06-29 00:56:54	makeworld	Anyone have any thoughts on that?
2020-06-29 00:57:12	makeworld	I'm not sure how many CGI applications use query strings and change a lot
2020-06-29 00:57:43	makeworld	But the lack of caching is notable for something like GUS, where's there's always a query string pretty much, and you're often clicking something, and then going back
2020-06-29 01:23:09		bard has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-06-29 01:23:15	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 02:19:24	~tiwesdaeg	xq: just did a clean and pull and still not working
2020-06-29 02:19:54	~tiwesdaeg	so, when I first open kristall, the navigation buttons are rectangles with words in them
2020-06-29 02:20:14	~tiwesdaeg	Back Forward and Reload
2020-06-29 02:20:26	~tiwesdaeg	if I open a new tab, they become empty squares
2020-06-29 02:20:40	~tiwesdaeg	as I showed you in the screenshots
2020-06-29 02:48:39		bard has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-29 02:48:51	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 03:45:27	epoch_	I got a hilit in this channel but my backlog doesn't go that far back
2020-06-29 04:40:21	login	epoch_: "<xq> epoch derailed me with a hackvr"
2020-06-29 06:45:35		tiwesdaeg has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-29 08:05:48	@xq	hey
2020-06-29 08:05:56	@xq	ah dang, tiwesdaeg isn't here atm
2020-06-29 08:11:06	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 08:15:01	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 08:15:01	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-06-29 08:55:17	@julienxx	hello
2020-06-29 08:55:41	@xq	hey julienx, tiwesdaeg, kensanata
2020-06-29 08:56:05	@xq	tiwesdaeg: thanks for the report! very weird behaviour on your site
2020-06-29 08:56:14	@xq	what DM are you using? XFCE/Manjaro?
2020-06-29 10:02:07	kensanata	Yo!
2020-06-29 10:06:27	kensanata	Wondering what to suggest to people when they ask me for a Gemini client recommendation. These days I say Elpher or AV-98 because the others require people to compile stuff themselves. Are there clients with binary distributions? gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1968/page/Gemini
2020-06-29 10:08:31		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-29 10:18:40	@julienxx	bombadillo has binaries https://bombadillo.colorfield.space/releases/
2020-06-29 10:31:03		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-29 10:31:50	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 10:33:42	kensanata	julienxx: Thanks, added that!
2020-06-29 10:42:52		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-29 11:01:26	@tomasino	goob morgnuns
2020-06-29 11:08:35	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 11:13:33	kensanata	gođan daín or however one writes this in Icelandic I guess?
2020-06-29 11:24:24	@tomasino	close!
2020-06-29 11:24:30	@tomasino	goðan daginn
2020-06-29 11:24:43	@tomasino	g's get pronounced weird between certain vowels
2020-06-29 11:28:24	kensanata	It's been a while since I've last been to Iceland, sadly.
2020-06-29 11:28:32	kensanata	And I didn't even eat the rotten shark.
2020-06-29 11:29:35	@tomasino	aww, does it even count as a visit then?
2020-06-29 11:29:36	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-29 11:29:57	@tomasino	you got a shout out on last night's tilde trivia show, btw
2020-06-29 11:30:08	@tomasino	"wiki" was one of the answers
2020-06-29 11:30:20	kensanata	Haha! Way to go!
2020-06-29 11:32:56	@tomasino	:D
2020-06-29 11:33:06	@tomasino	also Titan got a shout out
2020-06-29 11:33:19	@tomasino	the saturn V rocket was an answer as well
2020-06-29 11:35:04	kensanata	Now I just need more clients implementing it!
2020-06-29 11:42:04	@xq	kensanata: can you link me a spec? :D
2020-06-29 11:43:34	kensanata	xq: What I currently have is https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan or gemini://communitywiki.org:1966/Titan but I'd be happy to improve it.
2020-06-29 11:45:10	kensanata	xq: The following also works for text uploads: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-titan/tree/gemini.sh?h=main#n50
2020-06-29 11:54:10	kensanata	Do people want RSS or Atom these days? I like RSS myself because in the end half of Atom never got used.
2020-06-29 11:59:55	@xq	probably Atom
2020-06-29 12:00:33	jan6	both? both is good!
2020-06-29 12:00:33	jan6	;P
2020-06-29 12:01:29	jan6	huh
2020-06-29 12:01:50	jan6	I've not been up to date with stuff here, but a separate protocol for writing seems great
2020-06-29 12:02:01	kensanata	Yay!
2020-06-29 12:02:30	jan6	seems simple too
2020-06-29 12:02:33	jan6	great!
2020-06-29 12:02:37	kensanata	✨🚀🚀✨ TITAN!! 🌃✨🚀🚀 ✨
2020-06-29 12:02:42	@tomasino	pew pew!
2020-06-29 12:02:48	jan6	mew mew
2020-06-29 12:03:17	kensanata	Gah, guess I have to write the Atom output as well, then.
2020-06-29 12:03:52	jan6	you don't HATE to ;P
2020-06-29 12:03:54	jan6	*HAVE
2020-06-29 12:04:27	@xq	kensanata: why do you include the file size in the headers?
2020-06-29 12:05:58	kensanata	xq: My impression from earlier work was that if you don't do it, binary uploads won't work since you can't wait for a special byte, so you can't tell slow connections appart from short files?
2020-06-29 12:06:43	kensanata	jan6: My kind of Freudian slip!
2020-06-29 12:06:49	jan6	use a checksum? ;P
2020-06-29 12:07:21	kensanata	I'm not checking whether I got the right file, I need to know when to stop reading the socket...
2020-06-29 12:07:33	@xq	does the server respond anything for a titan request?
2020-06-29 12:08:04	kensanata	xq: Yeah, my implementation responds with a dozen varieties of 59 and 30 in the case of a success.
2020-06-29 12:08:23	kensanata	The 30 then redirects back to the gemini URL so that people can verifiy that it worked.
2020-06-29 12:08:23	@xq	ah!
2020-06-29 12:08:31	@xq	okay, yeah
2020-06-29 12:08:36	@xq	then it's necessary to send the file size
2020-06-29 12:08:40	kensanata	I guess you could also have a nice 20 "Upload accepted" page?
2020-06-29 12:09:07	kensanata	xq: Oh, that explains it to you? Can you explain it back to me, because I don't actually understand...
2020-06-29 12:09:23	kensanata	Ah, the client can't simply close the connection?
2020-06-29 12:20:38	kensanata	I have a related question, actually: in one of my unit tests I use a super short 18 line client written in Perl. It does Gemini and Titan requests, but if the server responds with an error, I can't seem to *read* that error. So instead of getting "59 MIME type not supported" or whatever, I'm simply getting an undefined response.
2020-06-29 12:22:16	kensanata	I keep thinking that's because I should be reading the server response instead of sending the payload, but if the server intends to accept the payload, it doesn't reply anything, so there's nothing to read. Is this because the protocol is not well-designed, or is this because my super-short client needs to be fixed, and if so, how?
2020-06-29 12:22:29	kensanata	All I can offer right now is some Perl code... https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-wiki/tree/t/gemini-wiki.t#n98
2020-06-29 12:22:32	kensanata	Sorry! :D
2020-06-29 12:23:59	kensanata	The problem is the test at line 159 which I had to comment: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-wiki/tree/t/gemini-wiki.t#n159
2020-06-29 12:24:18	kensanata	Anyway, if any of you have some socket programming insight, I'd be happy to hear it.
2020-06-29 12:27:53	@xq	sounds like your client should be fixed
2020-06-29 12:27:59	@xq	i can take a look later
2020-06-29 12:28:04	@xq	right now, work is priority :D
2020-06-29 12:36:04	kensanata	Sure!
2020-06-29 12:36:15	kensanata	My summer break started today, so I have more time...
2020-06-29 12:39:25	@xq	haha neat
2020-06-29 12:39:47	@xq	where are you from? from our domain name i guess switzerland?
2020-06-29 12:46:07	kensanata	I live in Switzerland, yes
2020-06-29 12:47:01	~tiwesdaeg	xq: yeah, the xfce version of manjaro
2020-06-29 12:47:21	~tiwesdaeg	let me see if it's occurring on this computer as well
2020-06-29 12:51:45	~tiwesdaeg	nope
2020-06-29 12:52:16	~tiwesdaeg	xfce on freebsd is working fine
2020-06-29 12:54:34	@xq	i check out a blank manjaro
2020-06-29 12:54:53		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-29 12:55:28	~tiwesdaeg	xq: let me install a different wm and boot in to that to see if it's still an issue
2020-06-29 12:55:38	~tiwesdaeg	I can do it when I get home from work today
2020-06-29 12:55:47	@xq	:D
2020-06-29 12:56:35	~tiwesdaeg	I'll just do i3 to replicate your environment more
2020-06-29 12:56:57	~tiwesdaeg	are you using startx or a display manager?
2020-06-29 12:57:19	@xq	startx
2020-06-29 12:57:57	~tiwesdaeg	I think manjaro is using lightdm for xfce
2020-06-29 12:58:19	~tiwesdaeg	I'll just kill it and setup a .xinitrc
2020-06-29 13:00:51	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 13:00:59	@xq	hey natpen
2020-06-29 13:02:28	kensanata	Does anybody know why I'm getting this validation error? https://validator.w3.org/feed/check.cgi?url=https%3A%2F%2Falexschroeder.ch%3A1968%2Fdo%2Frss#l64
2020-06-29 13:03:25	kensanata	Finishing that RSS feed did take longer than expected. Damn HTML quoting.
2020-06-29 13:03:32	kensanata	XML quoting.
2020-06-29 13:06:25	@xq	kensanata: it sounds like you're using a undefined tag there?
2020-06-29 13:08:16	kensanata	description seems to be the right tag to me, and I use it in the previous item as well, line 57 for example.
2020-06-29 13:08:23	@xq	weird
2020-06-29 13:09:32	kensanata	It's like the parser sees some other fragment on that line and believes there should be a tag.
2020-06-29 13:10:26	kensanata	On to RFC 4287... Atom Syndication!
2020-06-29 13:30:56	@xq	tiwesdaeg: okay, got the repro
2020-06-29 13:31:27	@xq	changing the theme to dark mode, then opening a new tab solved it
2020-06-29 13:31:28	@xq	wtf
2020-06-29 13:35:36	@tomasino	Atom addiction
2020-06-29 13:35:54	@xq	i want to do atom at some point as well
2020-06-29 13:36:04	@xq	i just spend my whole time on either games or Kristall atm :D
2020-06-29 13:58:06	kensanata	Hah
2020-06-29 13:58:25	kensanata	Well, Atom seems to validate without that weird comment I get when trying to validate RSS so... I dunno?
2020-06-29 13:59:58	@tomasino	weird comment?
2020-06-29 14:00:19	@tomasino	oh, missing cdata block on the description, perhaps in RSS
2020-06-29 14:00:50	kensanata	tomasino: But I don't need CDATA if I'm HTML quoting, no?
2020-06-29 14:01:11	@xq	tiwesdaeg: btw, starting to write a CI docker file atm :)
2020-06-29 14:01:14	kensanata	Like, &lt; &gt; &amp; – but perhaps you're right and I forgot something...
2020-06-29 14:01:16	@tomasino	depends on if you're escaping it all properly
2020-06-29 14:01:20	@tomasino	might be just the quotes
2020-06-29 14:01:21	kensanata	Yeah!
2020-06-29 14:01:30	@tomasino	i just cdata everything for cosmic
2020-06-29 14:01:31	@tomasino	it's easier
2020-06-29 14:01:33	kensanata	Heh.
2020-06-29 14:01:40	@tomasino	cosmic.voyage/rss.xml
2020-06-29 14:01:55	~tiwesdaeg	docker and I don't get along
2020-06-29 14:01:56	@tomasino	i think i do, anyway
2020-06-29 14:02:27	kensanata	tomasino: do you make sure the quoted text doesn't contain ]]> ?
2020-06-29 14:02:44	~tiwesdaeg	xq: you got the test manajaro vm running?
2020-06-29 14:02:56	@xq	it's already down again! :D
2020-06-29 14:03:03	@xq	and yes, i can repro your problems there
2020-06-29 14:03:07	@xq	so fails on a blank manjaro
2020-06-29 14:03:10	@xq	very weird
2020-06-29 14:03:23	~tiwesdaeg	speaking of quoted text, makeworld I found another issue with md2gemini
2020-06-29 14:08:57	wgreenhouse	what's the process for getting picked up by CAPCOM? is it just have an atom feed?
2020-06-29 14:12:40	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 14:13:40		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-06-29 14:14:06	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 14:16:51	~tiwesdaeg	wgreenhouse: email the feed link to solderpunk
2020-06-29 14:17:28	wgreenhouse	tiwesdaeg: thanks :)
2020-06-29 14:27:28	kensanata	What's the word on the street regarding escape sequences to add colours to the output? Always a good idea? Never a good idea?
2020-06-29 14:27:56	kensanata	I know that Elpher can handle them, eventhough it doesn't use a terminal, but what about other non-terminal clients?
2020-06-29 14:31:10	@julienxx	I do handle them in Castor, not the best idea for a graphical client but it’s fun!
2020-06-29 14:31:21	@xq	Kristall will probably allow to handle them, but it's optional
2020-06-29 14:34:33		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-29 14:37:16	kensanata	Cool!
2020-06-29 14:37:40	kensanata	I'll try and keep it simple: just those standard eight colours or something like it
2020-06-29 14:41:04	makeworld	Yeah, I only have one colour on my homepage
2020-06-29 14:41:13	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: What's the bug?
2020-06-29 14:42:28	~tiwesdaeg	When using > for quotes in markdown, I'm getting a weird output
2020-06-29 14:42:50	makeworld	Ah
2020-06-29 14:42:57	makeworld	Is the line underneath not being quoted?
2020-06-29 14:43:11	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/md2gemini/issues/14
2020-06-29 14:43:37	~tiwesdaeg	I'm getting added ``` in it
2020-06-29 14:43:42	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-29 14:44:00	makeworld	Can you provide an example md file again?
2020-06-29 14:44:18	~tiwesdaeg	Sure, give me a minute
2020-06-29 14:44:57	jan6	tiwesdaeg: @lightdm, did you know you can just simply add your own profiles to the display managers, just by editing /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop files ;P
2020-06-29 14:45:44	@xq	makeworld: gemini://random-projects.net/torture/0002.md
2020-06-29 14:45:50	@xq	if you ant any markdown file :D
2020-06-29 14:47:04	makeworld	That file doesn't have any quotes though?
2020-06-29 14:48:24	makeworld	The processing for that file looks decent tiwesdaeg
2020-06-29 14:48:36	makeworld	Oh whoops it was xq who sent that
2020-06-29 14:48:40	makeworld	My bad
2020-06-29 14:50:40	@xq	sorry if i just responded pretty brainfarty
2020-06-29 14:50:50	@xq	but if there are problems, i'd like to incorporate them into this file :D
2020-06-29 14:50:58	makeworld	Haha no it's all good, I just got to read people's usernames
2020-06-29 14:51:44	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: I was changing things up
2020-06-29 14:51:57	makeworld	All good :)
2020-06-29 14:52:02	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-29 14:52:24	~tiwesdaeg	still working on setting up a base markdown file to render to html and gmi and was having issues with ``` and python markdown tools
2020-06-29 14:52:45	makeworld	Anyway I actually have to go soon, so just send the file when you can and I'll get to it soon
2020-06-29 14:55:05	makeworld	Thanks for reporting these issues though
2020-06-29 14:57:32	@julienxx	tomasino: did you have to re-follow everyone after your instance migration? It started importing my followers but not the people I follow, maybe I just need to wait.
2020-06-29 14:58:02	@tomasino	um, i.... don't know! i also exported and imported all my lists
2020-06-29 14:58:08	@tomasino	so maybe it only migrates your followers
2020-06-29 14:59:01	@julienxx	ok thanks, I have the export too in case it fails :)
2020-06-29 14:59:12	companion_cube	morning there
2020-06-29 14:59:14	@julienxx	too bad toots can't be moved
2020-06-29 14:59:22	companion_cube	anyone here into Forth? given the taste for minimalism…
2020-06-29 14:59:24	@julienxx	hi companion_cube
2020-06-29 15:00:36	@julienxx	I read Thinking Forth but never really did stuff with it
2020-06-29 15:01:06	@xq	40 2 +
2020-06-29 15:01:13	@xq	that's pretty much all i know of Forth :D
2020-06-29 15:01:18	@xq	rpn + stack
2020-06-29 15:01:42	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: https://ttm.sh/
2020-06-29 15:01:52	~tiwesdaeg	oops
2020-06-29 15:02:04	~tiwesdaeg	https://ttm.sh/Q5C.md
2020-06-29 15:02:09	~tiwesdaeg	might want the whole link
2020-06-29 15:02:56	kensanata	Same here. Read a book or two.
2020-06-29 15:03:08	kensanata	Installed Retro Forth on the phone and did nothing with it.
2020-06-29 15:04:08	companion_cube	erf :)
2020-06-29 15:04:40	kensanata	erf... because you're also just reading a book or two and doing nothing with it? :D
2020-06-29 15:04:41	@julienxx	http://forthworks.com/atua a gopher server in Forth
2020-06-29 15:05:30	kensanata	julienxx: wow!
2020-06-29 15:05:45	kensanata	And it's by the Retro Forth guy!
2020-06-29 15:06:03	@julienxx	It's by Charles Childers the guy who also makes the only iOS gopher client on the AppStore
2020-06-29 15:06:13	kensanata	Right.
2020-06-29 15:06:46	kensanata	I remember a discussion with him on Mastodon where he said he programmed by he open window, no matter what the temperature outside. Freezing cold!
2020-06-29 15:07:54	@julienxx	to cool down his machine :D
2020-06-29 15:10:03	kensanata	Maybe!
2020-06-29 15:10:03	@tomasino	Good dude, Charles
2020-06-29 15:10:16	kensanata	Did he recover from RSI?
2020-06-29 15:10:52	companion_cube	kensanata: well I'm curious, is all
2020-06-29 15:11:12	companion_cube	I kind of need a DSL for something else and am thinking of drawing inspiration from Forth since it's so simple to implement
2020-06-29 15:12:35	@xq	companion_cube: what do you want to build?
2020-06-29 15:12:49	companion_cube	I'm writing a small proof assistant :)
2020-06-29 15:13:05	companion_cube	(the normal way is to use a ML language, they were designed for that, but I'm trying something else)
2020-06-29 15:14:25	@tomasino	he's in progress last i heard, but still having issues
2020-06-29 15:16:31	kensanata	Wow, this SGR answer is great, including a digression into the basic 11 colours (search for "interlude") https://stackoverflow.com/a/33206814
2020-06-29 15:16:51	kensanata	"This may be why story Beowulf only contains the colours black, white, and red. It may also be why the Bible does not contain the colour blue. Homer's Odyssey contains black almost 200 times and white about 100 times. Red appears 15 times, while yellow and green appear only 10 times."
2020-06-29 15:18:49	@xq	yeah, "blue" is kinda invisible to humans by nature until something 200-300 years ago
2020-06-29 15:19:03	@xq	as it was not trivially possible to make blue color pigments
2020-06-29 15:30:51	@xq	if i'm doing it right, Kristall will gain a CI-built AppImage today :)
2020-06-29 15:30:55	@xq	linux deployment done easy
2020-06-29 15:38:48	kensanata	I liked the idea in toki pona where blue and green get the same name
2020-06-29 15:39:02	@xq	heh
2020-06-29 15:39:19	@xq	interestingly, naming colors gives you the ability to distinguish them
2020-06-29 15:39:30	@xq	otherwise your brain kinda maps them to the same token
2020-06-29 15:41:06	kensanata	does a link now require a \r\n at the end or is a simple \n good enough these days?
2020-06-29 15:41:34	kensanata	xq: It's an interesting question and hard to determine experimentally, I'd say.
2020-06-29 15:41:39	@julienxx	\r\n is only for the meta part if I'm not mistaken
2020-06-29 15:42:30	kensanata	Yep, that got fixed. Yay!
2020-06-29 15:43:04	@xq	kensanata: afaik it's proven by example
2020-06-29 15:43:58	kensanata	You ask people from remote tribes: "is this the same colour as this?"
2020-06-29 15:44:12	@xq	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue%E2%80%93green_distinction_in_language
2020-06-29 15:44:17	@xq	yes, kinda :D
2020-06-29 15:45:25	@xq	afaik in the Ilias water was described as "the color of wine" which isn't quite "blue" :D
2020-06-29 15:46:22	kensanata	You get into issues of translation, though. If by "your brain kinda maps them to the same token" you mean words, then fine. But if you mean that people think two things are the same, I maintain that it's still hard. But I haven't read that Wikipedia page yet.
2020-06-29 15:47:02	@xq	do you know "MaiLab"? (german youtube channel)
2020-06-29 15:47:07	@xq	she has a quite nice explanatory video on this
2020-06-29 15:48:00	kensanata	No, I don't do much YouTube...
2020-06-29 15:48:47	kensanata	Many years ago I got a master in biology, though, with one of the focus topics being physiology of the senses (Sinnesphysiologie)...
2020-06-29 15:49:35	kensanata	I skimmed the Wikipedia article and it seems to consist of a long list of languages and the words they use to describe colours.
2020-06-29 15:49:59	@xq	yeah, i've noticed that too
2020-06-29 15:50:04	@xq	but there's different studies linked
2020-06-29 15:50:43	kensanata	I stopped by Portuguese and noticed that they talk about bright blue and dark blue, and I thought to myself: what it says here is that people use adjectives to further specify what kind of color they see and the important part is that they see a difference... so... ?
2020-06-29 15:50:58	dkibi	xq: this is mostly unrelated to the converstation, but since I saw you do demo stuff: do you know a good introduction to color space foo (good: short, technical, complete)
2020-06-29 15:51:11	@xq	phew
2020-06-29 15:52:17	@xq	no, not directly
2020-06-29 15:52:29	@xq	you may ask on ircnet/#revision
2020-06-29 15:55:14	dkibi	oh thanks for the pointer. when I googled arround I found either long overview blog posts, or highly technical discussions. I would like something targeted at someone used to read technical documents, but who has no prior knowledge (graduate classes are often in this category)
2020-06-29 15:56:42	@xq	https://www.iquilezles.org/www/index.htm maybe something can be found here
2020-06-29 15:56:47	@xq	iqs articles are great
2020-06-29 15:57:18	dkibi	ah yes of course ^^ I should have checked
2020-06-29 15:58:51	dkibi	bevore covid I thought about going to revisision, I've never been to a demo party, I live not far away, and it would have been on my birthday weekend. but well
2020-06-29 15:59:21	@xq	dang
2020-06-29 16:00:17	dkibi	and I have couches in Saarbrücken I could crash on ^^
2020-06-29 16:00:44	@xq	he
2020-06-29 16:00:49	@xq	come next revision!
2020-06-29 16:01:13	@xq	will be my first one too, but i usually visit some different parties across germany and outline in netherlands
2020-06-29 16:03:45	@xq	i feel pranked
2020-06-29 16:03:56	@xq	> Please run on a system with a glibc version no newer than what comes with the oldest
2020-06-29 16:04:00	@xq	W T F
2020-06-29 16:04:39	@xq	result: i cannot use linuxdeployqt to develop an appimage build process
2020-06-29 16:04:50	@xq	because someone thinks it's a good idea to force me to use ubuntu xenial
2020-06-29 16:04:55	@xq	where my app doesn't even build
2020-06-29 16:15:03		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-29 16:15:48	makeworld	tiwesdaeg I'm afraid this is on you I think, according to the MD spec
2020-06-29 16:16:27	makeworld	Starting a line with four spaces make it a code line, and that applies even in a quote
2020-06-29 16:16:57	@xq	makeworld: yep, that is correct
2020-06-29 16:18:15	makeworld	So it's trying to quote it, but also use gemini backticks
2020-06-29 16:18:24	~tiwesdaeg	that sucks :(
2020-06-29 16:18:24	makeworld	So you end up with something invalid:
2020-06-29 16:18:27	makeworld	> ```
2020-06-29 16:18:30	makeworld	Yeah sorry
2020-06-29 16:18:35	~tiwesdaeg	thanks, though
2020-06-29 16:19:04	~tiwesdaeg	even if that line is a quote?
2020-06-29 16:19:13	~tiwesdaeg	that's what seemed weird
2020-06-29 16:19:15	makeworld	The one bug I do see is that it's not keeping the spaces. Like it should still add the backticks and stuff, but it should be all the left spaces, minus 4
2020-06-29 16:19:21	makeworld	Yeah, even if it's a quote
2020-06-29 16:20:03	~tiwesdaeg	hmm, python markdown to html doesn't like ```
2020-06-29 16:20:13	makeworld	What do you mean?
2020-06-29 16:20:32	makeworld	Like your python converter won't work with ```?
2020-06-29 16:20:36	makeworld	That's very strange
2020-06-29 16:20:36	~tiwesdaeg	yeah
2020-06-29 16:20:44	~tiwesdaeg	but I think the spaces do work
2020-06-29 16:20:48	~tiwesdaeg	I should just try that
2020-06-29 16:21:01	~tiwesdaeg	that cleans this all up nicely
2020-06-29 16:21:18	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-29 16:21:23	~tiwesdaeg	then I can still super indent
2020-06-29 16:21:41	makeworld	I guess markdown isn't really made for that level of text formatting, where you can right justify things or whatever
2020-06-29 16:29:12	~tiwesdaeg	closer
2020-06-29 16:30:25	~tiwesdaeg	it's adding an extra blank line before the cosing ```
2020-06-29 16:36:02	makeworld	md2gemini is?
2020-06-29 16:36:08	makeworld	Can you send the new file?
2020-06-29 16:40:11	makeworld	Aww the wp.pitr.ca cert is messed up
2020-06-29 16:44:19	makeworld	I sent him an email
2020-06-29 17:15:36	@xq	heya! it worked!
2020-06-29 17:15:38	@xq	https://mq32.de/public/Kristall-nightly-x86_64.AppImage
2020-06-29 17:15:45	@xq	if anyone wants to give it a shot
2020-06-29 17:15:55	@xq	appimage linux-build of Kristall :)
2020-06-29 17:18:21	tastytea	xq: Works fine here. 👍
2020-06-29 17:18:26	@xq	neat!
2020-06-29 17:18:34	@xq	next step: find out how to upload that to github
2020-06-29 17:18:40	@xq	find out how to get docker run on Windows
2020-06-29 17:18:45	tastytea	The font Qt uses is not my system font, but I guess that's an AppImage issue.
2020-06-29 17:18:50	@xq	yeah
2020-06-29 17:19:38	@xq	tastytea: what OS are you on?
2020-06-29 17:19:46	@xq	distro, kernel version?
2020-06-29 17:19:46	tastytea	Gentoo Linux.
2020-06-29 17:19:49	@xq	oh, funky :D
2020-06-29 17:19:56	tastytea	5.4.48
2020-06-29 17:22:03	tastytea	xq: If I click on the “Enable client certificate” button, I get error messages that :/icons/certificate.svg and :/icons/plus.svg can not be opened.
2020-06-29 17:22:13	tastytea	qt.svg: Cannot open file ':/icons/certificate.svg', because: No such file or directory
2020-06-29 17:31:53	makeworld	An AppImage is a good idea, nice
2020-06-29 17:32:06	makeworld	You can upload that to Github as a release asset
2020-06-29 17:32:23	@xq	oh, thanks
2020-06-29 17:32:29	@xq	makeworld: i even plan nightlies! :D
2020-06-29 17:32:33	makeworld	When you make a new release or edit an old one, there's a spot to upload artifacts/assets, whatever you want
2020-06-29 17:32:35	makeworld	OOh
2020-06-29 17:32:38	makeworld	*ooh
2020-06-29 17:32:52	makeworld	Part of some CI pipeline or something?
2020-06-29 17:32:57	@xq	yeah
2020-06-29 17:32:58	@xq	github actions
2020-06-29 17:33:04	@xq	you can emit artifacts from them
2020-06-29 17:33:10	makeworld	Ah nic
2020-06-29 17:33:19	@xq	and i can run them on linux and windows → windows exe release + 1
2020-06-29 17:33:31	makeworld	So anyone who wants the latest build can get it from there, but otherwise they can download from the releases page
2020-06-29 17:33:41	makeworld	Sounds good
2020-06-29 17:34:06	@xq	yep
2020-06-29 17:34:09	@xq	that's the plan :)
2020-06-29 17:34:31	@xq	and if i have the muse, i will even make a automated android build after 0.5
2020-06-29 17:35:08	makeworld	I'm thinking I'll have downloading and searching as the major features for Amfora v1.2.0. The features I'm actually excited about are streams and feed subscription, but those will take longer
2020-06-29 17:35:24	makeworld	Wow Android? Oh yeah I guess QT supports that, I forgot
2020-06-29 17:35:31	makeworld	Exciting
2020-06-29 17:36:15	@xq	yep, it does
2020-06-29 17:36:22	@xq	i even build a test apk already :D
2020-06-29 17:36:28	@xq	it's crap on android, but works
2020-06-29 17:36:36	@xq	also it doesn't save settings *facepalm*
2020-06-29 17:36:48	makeworld	Ah, but it probably doesn't look great on a small screen with all the panels
2020-06-29 17:36:57	makeworld	Oh that's weird,
2020-06-29 17:37:49	@xq	yep, that is a problem as well
2020-06-29 17:38:03	@xq	i will build a mobile app view
2020-06-29 17:38:16	@xq	that allows to use Kristall easily on mobile, even with linux
2020-06-29 17:38:28	@xq	no tabbed interface, but similar feature, ...
2020-06-29 17:40:00	makeworld	Wow
2020-06-29 17:40:05	makeworld	You're doing so much
2020-06-29 17:40:16	makeworld	That would really be awesome yeah
2020-06-29 17:40:50	@xq	yeah it will make a good point in the resume
2020-06-29 17:40:50	@xq	:D
2020-06-29 17:55:18	makeworld	Haha yeah definitely
2020-06-29 18:10:07	makeworld	Hmm gus seems to be down
2020-06-29 18:10:40	makeworld	It might be my fault, I sent a really long query string then stopped in the middle of the request
2020-06-29 18:11:00	@xq	haha
2020-06-29 18:11:23	makeworld	I think GUS isn't running with multiple processes, or a process manager?? So a very complex query can just take the whole thing offline while it responds to that user
2020-06-29 18:11:25	makeworld	Yeesh
2020-06-29 18:16:48	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 18:17:27	makeworld	Uh oh, still down...
2020-06-29 18:17:45	makeworld	Don't tell her lol
2020-06-29 18:17:55	⚡	xq pokes natpen
2020-06-29 18:18:06	@xq	whoopsies :D
2020-06-29 18:21:17	makeworld	Heyyy
2020-06-29 18:21:18	makeworld	Lol
2020-06-29 18:21:29	makeworld	She never seems to be actually online anyways
2020-06-29 18:21:38	makeworld	I've @'d her before
2020-06-29 18:23:52	makeworld	Anyway, it's back up now
2020-06-29 19:21:39	makeworld	Now Amfora can show you the link before you click it! Handy sometimes for debugging, like if I write a link incorrectly
2020-06-29 19:54:52	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 19:59:58	epoch_	< login> epoch_: "<xq> epoch derailed me with a hackvr"
2020-06-29 20:00:00	epoch_	gracias
2020-06-29 20:00:11	@xq	haha :D
2020-06-29 20:00:14	@xq	hey epoch_
2020-06-29 20:00:17	epoch_	o/
2020-06-29 20:00:24	⚡	xq is back on tracks for the moment, but i will return
2020-06-29 20:01:19	epoch_	I'm not even at home.
2020-06-29 20:01:40	epoch_	turbo failed to build though
2020-06-29 20:02:52	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 20:11:54		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-29 20:29:27	@xq	\o/
2020-06-29 20:29:27	@xq	https://mq32.de/public/62a0ab4a17d060d37ea4f7a6b63172241e898df8.png
2020-06-29 21:04:41	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 21:10:41		everbern has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-29 21:11:30	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 21:12:51		everbern has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-29 21:18:13	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 21:19:23	epoch_	where would be  a good place to put an .xface file?
2020-06-29 21:20:32	epoch_	it isn't quite something I'd think of as going in ~/.config
2020-06-29 21:21:04	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 21:21:05	epoch_	seems kind of like users could use a dir that is like /srv
2020-06-29 21:22:49	epoch_	stuff like .plan would go in a similar place
2020-06-29 21:23:17	epoch_	except .plan was before people thought to not pollute ~/.
2020-06-29 21:23:30	lukee	xq: nice screenshot - I was thinking of implementing this for bookmarks in GemiNaut, but you beat me to it.
2020-06-29 21:23:39	tastytea	$HOME/.local/share maybe?
2020-06-29 21:25:39	epoch_	I think share is supposed to be for between programs
2020-06-29 21:25:53	⚡	epoch_ looks up what 'share' is supposed to be for
2020-06-29 21:26:51	lukee	instead I have bookmark separators using lines starting "--" or "__"
2020-06-29 21:26:52	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/d0fQmpe
2020-06-29 21:27:27	tastytea	It's for “user specific data files“ according to <https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html>.
2020-06-29 21:27:28	lukee	Still might implement it later - it would become nested menus I think, rather than a treeview
2020-06-29 21:28:44	@xq	lukee: thanks!
2020-06-29 21:28:48	⚡	xq tries to be one step ahead :D
2020-06-29 21:29:27	⚡	lukee lets xq have this one 
2020-06-29 21:30:10	epoch_	if you're making lists of links, there's a urilist mime-type
2020-06-29 21:30:21	lukee	I'm still working on polishing my gopher interface - its quite a lot of work to cover all the quirks and corner cases
2020-06-29 21:31:23	makeworld	lukee: Folders of bookmarks would be nice probably
2020-06-29 21:31:25	epoch_	though urilist doesn't have to-end-of-line comments per-RFC, I've been usingt them as if the first space starts a comment
2020-06-29 21:31:42	epoch_	(since spaces aren't allowed in URIs anyway)
2020-06-29 21:32:02	makeworld	Also I'm unsure about whether Amfora should ever have Gopher support. It might be nice, but there's already Bombadillo for that, and Gopher is kind of crusty, so to speak
2020-06-29 21:32:08	makeworld	In comparison to Gemini, anyway
2020-06-29 21:32:22	makeworld	In any case, it wouldn't be a priority
2020-06-29 21:32:43	lukee	but I'm hoping I have the prettiest Gopher pages now
2020-06-29 21:32:44	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/bTSqrnI
2020-06-29 21:33:09	lukee	Actually the more I work with Gopher, the more respect I have
2020-06-29 21:33:41	lukee	There is a lot of synergy with Gemini
2020-06-29 21:34:04	lukee	but it is really just a text + links domain only
2020-06-29 21:34:46	lukee	With a bit of creativitiy there's a lot you can do
2020-06-29 21:35:18	lukee	like there is Gopherpedia gopher://gopherpedia.com
2020-06-29 21:35:43	lukee	Hacker news gopher://hngopher.com/
2020-06-29 21:35:51	lukee	and the ubiquitous Phlogs
2020-06-29 21:36:25	lukee	I still like Gemini better though
2020-06-29 21:37:44	lukee	makeworld: I finally have done some minor updates on gemget - hopefully of broader utility. Would you be interested to consider adopting them into your code base?
2020-06-29 21:39:29	lukee	broadly speaking my changes are:
2020-06-29 21:40:23	lukee	1. new -h flag to show the Gemini response in stdout. This helps the user or calling applications make better use of the content. Especially to get the mime type and other info
2020-06-29 21:42:00	lukee	2. better labelling of output, into 3 groups: "*** Info: <message> ***", "*** Error: <something went wrong> ***" and "*** Header: <server response> ***
2020-06-29 21:42:15	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-29 21:43:21		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-29 21:43:22	lukee	These make the interface from GemiNaut less of a hack, but perhaps more useful in providing better context to human readers or other automating clients
2020-06-29 21:57:43	lukee	I created a github issue for this with more context.
2020-06-29 22:02:21		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-29 23:11:39	@tomasino	xq: thanks for watering my plant!
2020-06-29 23:12:07	@tomasino	I'm gonna be traveling this week so I won't be around to water it. If any of you have a chance to pop in and keep it alive I'd appreciate it. Home Saturday
2020-06-29 23:14:25	makeworld	lukee: Sounds interesting thanks! I'll take a look and respond more in the issue you created
2020-06-29 23:14:47	makeworld	And those Gopher pages do look nice :)
2020-06-29 23:15:40	⚡	tomasino looks in from over at his gopher shrine
2020-06-29 23:37:59	makeworld	lukee: I'm thinking about removing the asterisks entirely, and just outputing all the extra info on stderr
2020-06-29 23:38:43	lukee	fine with removing the asterisks.
2020-06-29 23:39:01	makeworld	Ok, sounds good
2020-06-29 23:39:17	lukee	but some of the info is not error info, like the headers and general info. perhaps error responses would be better on stderr I agree
2020-06-29 23:39:52	makeworld	I'll make some changes based on your new file and commit them, and you can let me know what you think. I'll probably update you in the issue once that's doen
2020-06-29 23:40:05	makeworld	Yeah I'm thinking everything except the file and the header would be in stderr, even infos
2020-06-29 23:40:27	lukee	sure I'll take a look
2020-06-29 23:40:53	makeworld	That way you can separate the parsing, so any non-content stuff would be on stderr
2020-06-29 23:41:11	lukee	seems reasonable
2020-06-29 23:42:13	lukee	I'll keep an eye out for it. For now it is late here and I should head upstairs to Bedford
2020-06-29 23:45:01	makeworld	Ha, alright
2020-06-29 23:45:13	makeworld	See you later, I'll update you when anything changes
2020-06-29 23:47:26		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 00:14:17		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 00:16:25	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 01:12:26	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I know you're probably sleeping peacefully, but I finally tried kristall in i3
2020-06-30 01:12:44	~tiwesdaeg	it works properly, so it's definitely something to do with xfce at least
2020-06-30 01:12:58	~tiwesdaeg	at least on manjaro
2020-06-30 01:13:11	~tiwesdaeg	xfce on freebsd displays the icons just fine
2020-06-30 01:17:25	~tiwesdaeg	Also, I opened up Qt5 Configuration Tool and Kate
2020-06-30 01:17:40	~tiwesdaeg	Kate responds to changes in the QT theme, but kristall does not
2020-06-30 02:38:34		Sario528 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 02:48:43	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 04:26:53		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 04:28:09	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 07:41:25		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 07:43:19	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 08:42:34	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 08:51:59	@xq	tiwesdaeg: thanks for the report
2020-06-30 08:52:20	@xq	i got a message by linuxdeployqt that i'm missing two plugins for GTK1
2020-06-30 08:52:23	@xq	*GTK2
2020-06-30 08:52:27	@xq	it may be them?
2020-06-30 09:04:26	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 09:46:19		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 09:49:37	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 10:53:22	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 10:59:37	kensanata	Gemini Wiki now has spaces, that is: independent wikis separated by a prefix. Thus, gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1968/ and gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1968/test are two wikis.
2020-06-30 11:01:22	kensanata	And now I need to look for lunch.
2020-06-30 11:10:22	@julienxx	Made a new small bits log gemini://9til.de/users/~julienxx/
2020-06-30 11:34:13		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-30 11:43:04	~tiwesdaeg	nice
2020-06-30 11:43:51	~tiwesdaeg	I'm guessing right wing parties in France are probably like our right leaning democrats in america
2020-06-30 11:47:07	kensanata	That piece of news also cheered me up. :)
2020-06-30 12:04:14	dkibi	julienxx: is the right wing that was ruling in Bordeaux the conservative kind or the nationalist kind (front national kind)? The town I live in also swaped for the first time in 73 years, I hope it helps there were so many bad decicions made over the years
2020-06-30 12:06:50		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 12:10:44	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 12:11:53	@julienxx	No regular right wing, just conservatives
2020-06-30 12:14:48		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 12:23:24	@julienxx	In France a lot of cities turned green, that was a good election day :)
2020-06-30 12:26:06	wgreenhouse	kensanata: is gemini wiki part of oddmuse, or its own new thing?
2020-06-30 12:28:57	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 12:40:48	kensanata	wgreenhouse: The one I've been working on is independent.
2020-06-30 12:42:18	kensanata	wgreenhouse: different tools for different jobs: gemini-server is the add-on that I use for my website; gemini-wikipeida is the wikipedia proxy, gemini-wiki is that stand-alone wiki; gemini-titan are the two shell functions I use all the time, gemini-write is the Elpher extension... Phew! 😅
2020-06-30 12:44:48	@julienxx	noticed someone looking for a robot.txt in my logs, has it been defined somewhere?
2020-06-30 12:46:59	dkibi	julienxx: yeah I'm speaking of another french town, I happen to live in France (but I don't speak french and my passport lists another statate)
2020-06-30 12:48:31	dkibi	(I don't say I'm not french, because I won a team pétanque game against a middle aged couple on a 14th of July celebration once)
2020-06-30 12:50:02	@julienxx	where do you live?
2020-06-30 12:50:04	companion_cube	beginner's luck!
2020-06-30 12:50:55	dkibi	julienxx: Nancy
2020-06-30 12:51:32	dkibi	companion_cube: nah, mostly good team partner and juggling for many years helps too
2020-06-30 12:52:22	@julienxx	Nancy is a really pretty city from what I recall
2020-06-30 12:53:56	kensanata	julienxx: Yeah, natpen looks at your robots.txt
2020-06-30 12:54:18	@xq	heyja
2020-06-30 12:54:49	@julienxx	kensanata: ah cool, any idea what I should put inside?
2020-06-30 12:54:50	~tiwesdaeg	hallo
2020-06-30 12:55:06	kensanata	julienxx: the official docs is here: gemini://gus.guru/about
2020-06-30 12:55:09	dkibi	it has some very pretty houses thanks to the art novau movment that exists here and it has a beautiful old town, but sadly it's not consistent and some part suffer heavily from a car oriented architecture and out of the center one sees the signs of gernal bad economic state (lot of empty factory areas)
2020-06-30 12:55:33	kensanata	julienxx: mine is here: gemini://alexschroeder.ch/robots.txt
2020-06-30 12:55:41	@julienxx	kensanata: thanks!
2020-06-30 12:55:59	kensanata	julienxx: basically I want to exclude GUS from indexing the history pages, the old revisions, the list of changes, all the dynamic stuff.
2020-06-30 12:56:37	kensanata	Hm, now that I think about it, I think Gemini Wiki should come with a default robots.txt
2020-06-30 13:00:58		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 13:05:04	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 13:05:42	~tiwesdaeg	I checked email this morning expecting 50 new messages
2020-06-30 13:05:51	~tiwesdaeg	I guess everyone took a break
2020-06-30 13:07:02	@julienxx	yeah that's pretty calm, I thought my mailserver was having issues :D
2020-06-30 13:44:04		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 13:52:11	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 13:54:49	kensanata	I'm reusing an idea I had for another wiki: colour coding contributors by giving them each a little "flag" since we don't have usernames in Gemini Wiki: gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1968/do/changes
2020-06-30 13:55:29	kensanata	IP to 32bit hash, to octal, take first four digits, use the standard eight colours to colourize...
2020-06-30 13:56:29	kensanata	Reading the mailing list from https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/date.html is ... weird.
2020-06-30 13:56:38	kensanata	And getting weirder the longer this archive gets.
2020-06-30 13:58:11		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 14:00:10	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 14:07:10		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 14:08:14	@julienxx	1707 messages for 2020, damn
2020-06-30 14:09:01	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 14:18:02		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 14:21:32	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 14:43:31		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 14:47:02	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 15:02:02		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 15:11:49	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 15:14:43		everbern has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-30 15:15:53		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 15:21:23	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 15:25:14	makeworld	kensanata: Wait so titan is formalized now?
2020-06-30 15:25:20	makeworld	When the heck did that happen
2020-06-30 15:25:27		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 15:25:38	makeworld	Or have you just taken it and run with it
2020-06-30 15:29:22	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 15:35:51	makeworld	This titan stuff is freaking me out lol, I didn't realize it was being used in the wild
2020-06-30 15:36:05	makeworld	I hoped it would have been formalized more. with more discussion
2020-06-30 15:36:06	@xq	hey makeworld
2020-06-30 15:36:18	makeworld	Hello!
2020-06-30 15:36:19	⚡	xq is doing stupid stuff
2020-06-30 15:36:49	makeworld	Hackvr? :P
2020-06-30 15:36:58	@xq	nah
2020-06-30 15:37:01	@xq	https://mq32.de/public/abcb780deceb579dbb68ad918be07b355869a1e9.png
2020-06-30 15:37:07	@xq	installing windows 10 in a VM
2020-06-30 15:37:18	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 15:37:26	@xq	on a AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 250e
2020-06-30 15:40:02	@xq	but something has to build a Kristall windows nightly version :D
2020-06-30 15:42:56		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-30 15:44:46	makeworld	Oh interesting
2020-06-30 15:45:02	makeworld	You're going to keep that VM running all the time?
2020-06-30 15:45:06	makeworld	Or it's on a dedicated machine
2020-06-30 15:45:29		omse has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-30 15:45:35	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 15:52:34	@xq	it's a dedicated machine
2020-06-30 15:53:33	@xq	plan is to power up the machine at some time of the day automatically, let it pull and build the latest kristall binaries and deploy them on my server
2020-06-30 15:57:55	kensanata	makeworld: Feel free to discuss now. :D
2020-06-30 15:58:26	makeworld	xq: Cool! Why a VM if it's a dedicated machine though? ;)
2020-06-30 15:58:38	kensanata	makeworld: Basically I had written up gemini+write, and made some experiments, then I read that post on the mailing list and thought it was slightly better than what I had, so I switched horses...
2020-06-30 15:58:47	@xq	because it has to run the docker/linux build as well :)
2020-06-30 15:59:02	makeworld	Did you add/change things to Titan from what was discussed on the mailing list?
2020-06-30 15:59:40	makeworld	It'd be nice to see you put your wiki/blog/thing on CAPCOM ken, bc I think a lot of this cool wiki stuff is happening off to the side and people aren't necessarily aware of it
2020-06-30 15:59:47	makeworld	xq: Ah okay lo
2020-06-30 15:59:49	makeworld	*lol
2020-06-30 16:01:24	acdw	I agree with makeworld, kensanata. I mostly check CAPCOM and would love to see your updates
2020-06-30 16:01:50	kensanata	makeworld: Not that I remember. There was a lot more proposed by baschdel for their dragonstone client, though. This is how my stuff evolved: https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-06-04_Gemini_Upload Baschdel's proposal also got posted on the wiki here: https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/Baschdels_spin_on_Gemini_uploading
2020-06-30 16:02:33	makeworld	Hmm
2020-06-30 16:03:05	makeworld	It's cool that you're using stuff in the wild, I'd just love to see some sort of consensus, where most of the community comes together to agree on one method of doing it
2020-06-30 16:03:13	kensanata	Basically it was just the two of us, and I was too lazy to implement his approach which seemed to involve the server maintaining state and having a back-and-forth with the client.
2020-06-30 16:03:30	makeworld	Cause right now, as a client author, I don't feel assured that Titan will be what everyone uses, y'know?
2020-06-30 16:03:36	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-06-30 16:03:56	kensanata	I agree with consensus, but I'm also of the mind "rough consensus and two independent implementations" are good enough, or something like that.
2020-06-30 16:05:27	kensanata	Like, somebody writes a proposal, somebody writes some code, and then we'll see whether it gets any traction. Remember that from where I'm at, most people I know posted phlog posts saying nah, we don't need comments; we like our self-hosted stuff...
2020-06-30 16:05:50	kensanata	And so I'm thinking: well, I gotta do what I like, and maybe some people like what they see and then there'll more of us.
2020-06-30 16:06:00	@xq	Windows 10 is soooooo slow
2020-06-30 16:06:02	makeworld	tomasino: Natalie responded to a email I sent (about something else), and said she saw the IRC logs and will be adding backlinking search to GUS!
2020-06-30 16:06:51	makeworld	kensanata: Yeah, I totally get that, what you're doing is great! I just also want to see more discussion. But having stuff that actually works is always cool
2020-06-30 16:07:26	kensanata	I took some quotes from the mailing list at the time to remind myself where I'm at... https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-06-04_Gemini_Upload
2020-06-30 16:08:52	kensanata	As for discussion, at the time when I participated in the mailing list by sending an email once or twice, I got a reply by somebody saying that my messages were triggering all sorts of bounces because of the anti-spam measures of my provider. I decided it was better to unsubscribe than to fiddle with email setup. So now I just read the archives every now and then.
2020-06-30 16:10:47	makeworld	Hmm, that's weird
2020-06-30 16:11:03	kensanata	acdw: As for CAPCOM, at the time I looked into it an Atom feed was required and my site only produces a RSS 2.0 feed. Now, the current code I have produces both, but my homepage uses the old Oddmuse-Gemini bridge glue code which still does not. At the time I think I had seen solderpunk say that he was going to add RSS support eventually, so I decided to wait.
2020-06-30 16:13:22		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 16:13:26	kensanata	makeworld: You mean, the mailing list issues? I think if you look at the archive, you can look at all the mails that say "SPOOFED". https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/date.html That has something to do with it.
2020-06-30 16:14:07	kensanata	And if somebody knows a bit about mail and spam and all that, I'd appreciate help. :D https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-06-04_DMARC_an_Mailing_Lists
2020-06-30 16:15:36	makeworld	kensanata: CAPCOM is still Atom only afaik
2020-06-30 16:15:41	makeworld	BUt
2020-06-30 16:15:53	makeworld	*But maybe you can find something that will convert your RSS feed?
2020-06-30 16:16:56	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 16:17:07	kensanata	Yeah, maybe.
2020-06-30 16:17:24	@tomasino	Brilliant!
2020-06-30 16:17:55	acdw	kensanata: ahh that makes sense. it shouldn't be too hard to convert b/w RSS & ATOM though . They're verrry similar
2020-06-30 16:18:00	makeworld	Yeah it's great, she's been awesome
2020-06-30 16:18:01	kensanata	I mean, the wiki software itself has an Atom extension, but that's going to be full of HTTP links. I just need to sit down and write something in an hour or two.
2020-06-30 16:18:21	makeworld	Ooh I just realized that gemget can handle streams beautifully
2020-06-30 16:20:44	makeworld	That's fun
2020-06-30 16:22:30	makeworld	I mean I guess it's obvious, but I didn't think about using it like that
2020-06-30 16:23:18	kensanata	Gotta water some plants now. But if anybody wants to talk about Titan or other ways to edit sites via a protocol that is as close as possible to Gemini, feel free to mention me on this channel, or any other way to contact me → https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/Contact
2020-06-30 16:23:32	makeworld	Real plants or virtual plants?
2020-06-30 16:23:37	kensanata	Real plants! :D
2020-06-30 16:23:41	makeworld	:D
2020-06-30 16:23:53	kensanata	Now you're reminding me of astrobotany!
2020-06-30 16:24:31	kensanata	"Your plant is wilting, it will die soon without water!" Gaaah
2020-06-30 16:31:49	@xq	hmm. windows build complete, crashes at startup
2020-06-30 16:35:06	@xq	okay, was just a missing DLL
2020-06-30 16:43:26	acdw	OOf I keep forgetting about my regular tilde.town botany plant
2020-06-30 16:57:49	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 17:05:16	makeworld	I've ignored my plant for weeks...
2020-06-30 17:05:27	companion_cube	you monsters
2020-06-30 17:05:28	makeworld	Maybe once I add certs to Amfora I'll maintain it again lol
2020-06-30 17:06:09	acdw	saaamee
2020-06-30 17:07:04	makeworld	Oh haha with bollux you mean?
2020-06-30 17:07:11	makeworld	How's bollux doing?
2020-06-30 17:08:31	makeworld	On demifiend recent post about text modes he mentioned using bollux and Amfora for terminal Gemini browsing. I felt bad Bombadillo didn't get a shoutout but it's cool to see Amfora on someone's radar!
2020-06-30 17:09:32	⚡	makeworld afk, washing a shed
2020-06-30 17:17:45	acdw	yes
2020-06-30 17:18:09	acdw	makeworld: I know what you mean!! It's great to see people using my software
2020-06-30 17:18:14	acdw	even if I haven't updated it in a few weeks
2020-06-30 17:18:29	acdw	I wrote but haven't pushed a certificate validation function
2020-06-30 17:18:38	acdw	I still need to do client certs -- that's my #1 thing rn
2020-06-30 17:18:47	acdw	that is, when you get back you'll see this I guess
2020-06-30 17:18:47	acdw	:P
2020-06-30 17:19:50	@xq	yissssss
2020-06-30 17:19:58	⚡	xq has made a windows build for kristall
2020-06-30 17:21:49	acdw	awesome!
2020-06-30 17:21:55	@xq	yes!
2020-06-30 17:22:10	⚡	acdw remembers I'm *using* windows RN
2020-06-30 17:22:23	@xq	wanna do a test run?
2020-06-30 17:22:52	acdw	YES
2020-06-30 17:22:54	acdw	plz
2020-06-30 17:23:03	@xq	give me a sec
2020-06-30 17:23:05	acdw	fyi if it needs admin permissions I can't
2020-06-30 17:23:09	acdw	b/c I am totally non-admin
2020-06-30 17:23:12	@xq	are you mad?!
2020-06-30 17:23:14	@xq	:D
2020-06-30 17:23:16	acdw	haha nah
2020-06-30 17:23:26	@xq	why would i need admin rights?
2020-06-30 17:23:28	acdw	oh you mean coocoo? maybe
2020-06-30 17:23:39	⚡	xq hates installer with all of his heart
2020-06-30 17:23:40	acdw	idk !! sometimes programs need em
2020-06-30 17:23:43	acdw	:D
2020-06-30 17:23:45	acdw	You *get* me
2020-06-30 17:24:01	acdw	I even run pip install --user on my own machine
2020-06-30 17:24:12	acdw	I've seriously thought about nix-env'ing EVERYTHING
2020-06-30 17:31:16	▬▬▶	bard_ has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 17:31:36		bard_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-30 17:33:17	@xq	it's harder to extract a file from a windows VM than setting up the whole build chain :D
2020-06-30 17:35:27	acdw	lol
2020-06-30 17:36:25		dax has left #gemini
2020-06-30 17:59:00		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-30 18:00:28		gohan has left #gemini
2020-06-30 18:48:17	@xq	\o/
2020-06-30 18:48:29	@xq	Windows: https://kristall.random-projects.net/download/kristall-nightly.zip
2020-06-30 18:48:29	@xq	Linux: https://kristall.random-projects.net/download/Kristall-nightly-x86_64.AppImage
2020-06-30 18:49:11	makeworld	Nice!
2020-06-30 18:49:35	@xq	yes!
2020-06-30 18:49:39	@xq	95% automated
2020-06-30 18:49:46	@xq	i just need the nightly trigger
2020-06-30 18:49:55	makeworld	Cron job?
2020-06-30 18:50:15	makeworld	With @daily or just the manual values
2020-06-30 18:50:48	makeworld	Cron is so great
2020-06-30 18:51:05	@xq	yeah, maybe
2020-06-30 18:51:11	@xq	i don't want the machine to run 100% of the time though
2020-06-30 18:51:21	@xq	btw *rofl*
2020-06-30 18:51:22	@xq	https://kristall.random-projects.net/
2020-06-30 18:51:29	@xq	my site is currently mirrored into web space
2020-06-30 18:51:36	@xq	without gemini→html translation *rofl*
2020-06-30 18:51:39	makeworld	Haha
2020-06-30 18:51:48	@xq	correctly served as text/gemini
2020-06-30 18:51:49	makeworld	Cron should work even with shutdowns and stuff btw
2020-06-30 18:52:00	@xq	but hey, Kristall is the only browser that can serve that right
2020-06-30 18:52:06	@xq	yeah, not sure for windows
2020-06-30 18:52:16	@xq	also i need a plan on how to wake up the machine
2020-06-30 18:52:18	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 18:52:31	makeworld	Hah you're right! I was surprised to see the native HTTP support, but why not? Also surprised to see the TOFU for HTTPS, but again, pretty cool
2020-06-30 18:52:56	makeworld	xq: xkcd style, with a timer on the power? Lol
2020-06-30 18:53:36	@xq	makeworld: yeah, it wasn't much work to build both on top of Qt and Gemini handling :D
2020-06-30 18:53:38	@xq	so: why not? :D
2020-06-30 18:53:42	@xq	haha :D
2020-06-30 18:53:56	@xq	hey, i have network-switchable power outlets
2020-06-30 18:54:09	makeworld	Oh fancy
2020-06-30 18:54:10	makeworld	Nice
2020-06-30 18:54:18	makeworld	Maybe use that then
2020-06-30 18:54:20	@xq	and then i will probably just do a "make CI on startup, shutdown the machine when both are done"
2020-06-30 18:54:27	makeworld	Yeah
2020-06-30 18:54:44	makeworld	Prob want to send a shutdown command over ssh, wait 30s, then shut off power
2020-06-30 18:54:58	makeworld	Then power on and wait for SSH for the build
2020-06-30 18:55:01	@xq	something like that, yeah
2020-06-30 18:55:16	@xq	for now, it's fine by doing the "nightly" by hand though
2020-06-30 18:55:57	@xq	i wonder if i can get nginx to proxy-pass all *.gemini files into my lua script and keep the rest with "static pass"
2020-06-30 19:12:18	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 19:14:45	@xq	hey lukee
2020-06-30 19:14:55	epoch_	o/
2020-06-30 19:17:26	lukee	hi xq
2020-06-30 19:18:50	lukee	I saw in the IRC log that you are doing automated windows builds now?
2020-06-30 19:18:54	@xq	yep!
2020-06-30 19:19:01	@xq	there's a link above if you wanna try
2020-06-30 19:19:27	lukee	ooh I'll try it
2020-06-30 19:20:35	lukee	---------------------------
2020-06-30 19:20:35	lukee	kristall.exe - System Error
2020-06-30 19:20:35	lukee	---------------------------
2020-06-30 19:20:35	lukee	The code execution cannot proceed because MSVCR100.dll was not found. Reinstalling the program may fix this problem.
2020-06-30 19:20:35	lukee	---------------------------
2020-06-30 19:20:37	lukee	OK
2020-06-30 19:20:39	lukee	---------------------------
2020-06-30 19:20:48	lukee	is this a missing dependency?
2020-06-30 19:22:07	@xq	huh
2020-06-30 19:22:13	@xq	i did build it with mingw…
2020-06-30 19:22:17	@xq	what windows are you on?
2020-06-30 19:22:31	lukee	I dropped them in from another app I have using Qt
2020-06-30 19:22:39	lukee	I'm on Win10 x64
2020-06-30 19:22:44	lukee	it started now.
2020-06-30 19:23:07	@xq	huh
2020-06-30 19:23:50	lukee	otherwise it works. looks nice
2020-06-30 19:23:53	@xq	hmm
2020-06-30 19:23:59	@xq	can you remove the DLL and install https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=14632 instead?
2020-06-30 19:24:43	lukee	ok stand by..
2020-06-30 19:25:00	⚡	xq wants to do that the *right* way
2020-06-30 19:26:00	⚡	lukee admires xq's diligence
2020-06-30 19:26:12	@xq	\o/
2020-06-30 19:27:02	lukee	yeah that worked too
2020-06-30 19:27:50	lukee	I'll take it for a spin. I'm so used to using GemiNaut it will be exciting to see geminispace through a different lens
2020-06-30 19:28:24	lukee	Can't you just bundle the dependencies into the zip?
2020-06-30 19:29:19	@xq	the right way is to use the installer, so i will add a troubleshouting as well as the option for "fuck security, i don't care"
2020-06-30 19:30:44	lukee	a v small thing: on the navigation menu it should be Forward not Foreward
2020-06-30 19:31:00	@xq	haha
2020-06-30 19:31:01	@xq	Foreword!
2020-06-30 19:31:19	lukee	Also perhaps just Back, not Backward (to be same as webbrowsers)?
2020-06-30 19:32:02	@xq	changed
2020-06-30 19:32:28	▬▬▶	craigo has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 19:34:16	lukee	it all seems to work nicely - well done
2020-06-30 19:35:16	epoch_	who decided on "back" and "forward" anyway?
2020-06-30 19:35:41	epoch_	it seems like "up" and "downward" or "upward" and "down"
2020-06-30 19:35:49	lukee	probably Mosaic? I'm guessing
2020-06-30 19:36:13	epoch_	"stopage" and "go"
2020-06-30 19:36:20	epoch_	:>
2020-06-30 19:36:28	lukee	backward implies something is done in an old fashioned awkward way
2020-06-30 19:36:42	lukee	so maybe they wanted to avoid the connotation
2020-06-30 19:36:43	⚡	xq ain't native speaker
2020-06-30 19:37:07	epoch_	why not next and previous?
2020-06-30 19:37:19	lukee	your English ist besser als meine Deutsch
2020-06-30 19:37:35	@xq	haha, thanks
2020-06-30 19:37:50	@xq	yeah, i'm at the point where people may confuse you for a native speaker
2020-06-30 19:38:01	@xq	and then you start struggling because you don't know words :D
2020-06-30 19:38:05	lukee	that's a compliment
2020-06-30 19:38:37	@xq	yeah, i'm proud of my english skills :)
2020-06-30 19:38:42	@xq	demoscene does it's part
2020-06-30 19:38:46	lukee	I like the Kristall icon
2020-06-30 19:38:49	@xq	when the only common language is english
2020-06-30 19:39:33	lukee	ooh undockable windows and tabs
2020-06-30 19:40:39	@xq	welcome to Kristall! The most pleasant Gemini experience!
2020-06-30 19:40:49	lukee	maybe just a personal preference, but for me the font in the address bar and the tab titles is a bit small
2020-06-30 19:40:49	epoch_	https://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/WorldWideWeb.html
2020-06-30 19:41:01	epoch_	"The Navigate menu had things like "back" and "next" and "previous". these last two were useful when you follows a link from a list of links- they meant "go back a step and then take the next link from the same page instead"."
2020-06-30 19:41:03	lukee	ha ha
2020-06-30 19:41:16	@xq	epoch_: oh yeah that was crazy
2020-06-30 19:43:23	lukee	If I navigate a link from a search page (e.g. GUS) then go backwards, it sometimes asks me to submit a new query, but I just want to see the listing again.
2020-06-30 19:44:03	epoch_	give choice of "resubmit" or "use cached version"?
2020-06-30 19:45:21	lukee	The approach I took in GemiNaut is to navigate back and forward through history. Only if you click on a link that requires input does it open the input box
2020-06-30 19:45:49	makeworld	Same for Amfora
2020-06-30 19:46:07	lukee	Anyway the links in Gemini are designed really to be idempotent (GET, no POST yet), so I think you can cache without harm
2020-06-30 19:46:15	makeworld	Any non-content URLs are never added to history: redirects, input, errors, etc
2020-06-30 19:46:16	@xq	lukee: it's the same in Kristall, but navigating back reloads the page
2020-06-30 19:46:41	@xq	and the location without input is requested again
2020-06-30 19:46:42	lukee	yes but that may not be what the user will expect
2020-06-30 19:46:52	@xq	yeah, i need to make that more convenient
2020-06-30 19:47:07	lukee	the user can reload if it suits him or her
2020-06-30 19:48:29	epoch_	 < lukee> Anyway the links in Gemini are designed really to be idempotent (GET, no POST yet), so I think you can cache without harm
2020-06-30 19:48:36	lukee	I think the work you have done on certificates is quite something. I dont have any of that yet - waiting for the spec to settle a bit
2020-06-30 19:48:38	epoch_	someone has a comment system over gemini I think
2020-06-30 19:48:51	lukee	yes, but it is a hack IMO
2020-06-30 19:48:54	epoch_	and I don't think there's a random value to prevent double-posts
2020-06-30 19:48:57	@xq	lukee: i don't think the specs will change much anymore
2020-06-30 19:49:02	makeworld	Hello, it's me
2020-06-30 19:49:11	@xq	hello makeworld :D
2020-06-30 19:49:23	lukee	hello
2020-06-30 19:49:43	makeworld	I don't think double posts will happen if you reload a comment URL with a query though
2020-06-30 19:49:55	makeworld	You have to load the URL without a query, then with the query
2020-06-30 19:50:15	lukee	this part of Gemini is not well thought through IMO
2020-06-30 19:50:31	makeworld	Actually, you need to load the URL with a filename as the query first, then the with your comment as the query. It's kinda hacky lol
2020-06-30 19:50:51		craigo has left #gemini
2020-06-30 19:51:07	lukee	just think of gemini URLs as GET and supposed to be idempotent and you will be fine
2020-06-30 19:51:31	epoch_	I remember seeing something similar to <title> for gemini pages. Was it just the first header to show up in the page?
2020-06-30 19:52:00	epoch_	I might make a title bot I have attempt showing the title for gemini links too.
2020-06-30 19:52:07	@xq	epoch_: that's what i want to implement for Kristall
2020-06-30 19:52:09	epoch_	what does gus use?
2020-06-30 19:52:30	epoch_	I don't have a link to gus saved. :/
2020-06-30 19:52:47	@xq	gemini://gus.guru/
2020-06-30 19:52:51	lukee	I think it uses the first heading in the page, or first line of text. Many of the clients do this too
2020-06-30 19:52:58	epoch_	xq: gracias
2020-06-30 19:53:06	⚡	xq has structured favourites
2020-06-30 19:53:09	⚡	xq finds all the stuff :D
2020-06-30 19:53:42	epoch_	I just keep a long text file of tagged URLs
2020-06-30 19:55:10	makeworld	Using the first heading is a good strategy
2020-06-30 19:55:50	makeworld	I'm working my way through my Github Sponsors profile now, xq you should do the same! You've put a lot of work into Kristall
2020-06-30 19:57:00	lukee	what is that?
2020-06-30 19:58:05	@xq	makeworld: hmm *thinking*
2020-06-30 19:58:10	@xq	what do i have to do for this?
2020-06-30 19:58:26	makeworld	lukee: It's a payment system through Github, like Patreon but 0% cut
2020-06-30 19:58:40	lukee	does it work?
2020-06-30 19:59:20	makeworld	xq: It's a small application that is auto-approved I think, and then you set up your profile which is human reviewed. It seems pretty painless so far, just some bio writing. I also set up a Ko-Fi which is *very* quick and easy
2020-06-30 19:59:22	⚡	lukee dreams of a £1 hourly rate
2020-06-30 19:59:26	@xq	yeah, afaik github doubles payment stuff
2020-06-30 19:59:38	@xq	oh neat
2020-06-30 19:59:50	makeworld	It's nice to have Ko-Fi as well because people can do one-off payments, but Github has to be recurring
2020-06-30 20:00:03	makeworld	Yeah they match up to some large amount, I forget
2020-06-30 20:00:05	lukee	Ko-Fi is?
2020-06-30 20:00:13	lukee	Sorry, learning new stuff here...
2020-06-30 20:00:23	makeworld	All good, what's the question though?
2020-06-30 20:00:32	lukee	What is Ko-Fi?
2020-06-30 20:02:25	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 20:02:38	makeworld	It's another payment platform
2020-06-30 20:02:41	lukee	is it this: https://ko-fi.com/
2020-06-30 20:02:44	makeworld	Yes
2020-06-30 20:03:02	makeworld	I wanted to do both, because Github Sponsors is recurring, but Ko-Fi isn't
2020-06-30 20:03:27	lukee	I'm thinking does it rhyme with Lo-Fi, but then the penny dropped...
2020-06-30 20:04:12	epoch_	gemini-git "$uri" | grep '^#' | head -n1
2020-06-30 20:04:16	epoch_	get*
2020-06-30 20:05:33	makeworld	xq: Let me know if you setup Github Sponsors and/or Ko-Fi
2020-06-30 20:05:40	@xq	will do
2020-06-30 20:06:17	lukee	I might look into it
2020-06-30 20:07:13	makeworld	Yeah you too!
2020-06-30 20:07:22	makeworld	For sure, GemiNaut is popular
2020-06-30 20:08:13	lukee	new release coming soon, the GemiNaut <3 Gopher release
2020-06-30 20:08:37	lukee	and with new enhanced gemget!
2020-06-30 20:09:54	makeworld	Oh nice!
2020-06-30 20:09:57	makeworld	:D
2020-06-30 20:12:11	lukee	xq: I turned on https/http, then when I go to a https URL I get an empty message box: "" Yes/No?
2020-06-30 20:12:20	lukee	Do I press yes or no :)
2020-06-30 20:12:39	lukee	I went with yes
2020-06-30 20:13:34	@xq	oh…
2020-06-30 20:13:37	@xq	i noticed that too
2020-06-30 20:13:40	lukee	nice you have simple html rendering
2020-06-30 20:13:43	@xq	is probably a redirectoin question
2020-06-30 20:14:40	lukee	Are you parsing and sanitising the HTML yourself? Its a lot of work!
2020-06-30 20:14:59		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-06-30 20:15:47	@xq	nah, that's actually Qt
2020-06-30 20:16:11	⚡	lukee thanks the gods for useful libraries
2020-06-30 20:17:27	@xq	yeah
2020-06-30 20:17:36	lukee	I was playing around today with a library called "readability" which sanitises HTML.
2020-06-30 20:18:28	lukee	I might plug it in, but its not very fast.
2020-06-30 20:19:25	lukee	but that fits in with the idea of the slow internet. Not rushing ahead at the earlies moment to consume the next cat video
2020-06-30 20:19:47	lukee	This web page is slow - Are you thankful? Yes/No/Cancel
2020-06-30 20:20:54	lukee	I'm sort of interested in a generic HTML->GMI conversion pathway. Could be useful in a number of contexts
2020-06-30 20:23:22	lukee	We could have a slogan for Gemini
2020-06-30 20:23:27	lukee	Clean and Fast hypertext: Gemini
2020-06-30 20:23:43	lukee	Slow and packed with surveillace: The Web
2020-06-30 20:28:23	epoch_	now make it into a rap
2020-06-30 20:29:21	epoch_	rap battle: http vs gemini
2020-06-30 20:29:40	lukee	you hum the tune and I'll get the homies
2020-06-30 20:29:58	epoch_	hrm.
2020-06-30 20:30:06	⚡	epoch_ looks into midi format
2020-06-30 20:30:24	epoch_	or just bytebeat
2020-06-30 20:31:06	lukee	there are some poets in Geminispace - we should get them to pen some lines
2020-06-30 20:32:56	makeworld	Definitely
2020-06-30 20:38:03	lukee	xq: if I have the rendering as plain text, is there a way to navigate the links?
2020-06-30 20:38:29	lukee	I wasnt sure what that mode is for - is it a kind of view->source?
2020-06-30 20:39:56	@xq	nope, plain text is plain text :D
2020-06-30 20:39:59	@xq	removes all decoratoins :D
2020-06-30 20:40:05	@xq	View→Source is planned though
2020-06-30 20:40:24	lukee	ok - that makes more sense
2020-06-30 20:45:53	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-06-30 20:47:41	makeworld	Ok I take it back, the GIthub Sponsors process is long
2020-06-30 20:47:57	acdw	yooo xq kristall on windows ROX
2020-06-30 20:48:01	acdw	it's a grand ol time
2020-06-30 20:48:07	makeworld	I think it'll be worth it, but you have to enable 2FA and digitally sign a tax form and stuff lol
2020-06-30 20:48:09	@xq	\o/
2020-06-30 20:48:23	acdw	2 things: forms on https don't work (so gemlog.blue is bleh, but it's okay) and it doesn't do the streaming chat.mozz.us thing
2020-06-30 20:48:25	acdw	but that's okay too
2020-06-30 20:48:45	@xq	forms won't work
2020-06-30 20:48:49	@xq	streaming will work eventually
2020-06-30 20:48:54	acdw	:D
2020-06-30 20:48:57	acdw	awesome possum
2020-06-30 20:49:07	lukee	the chat.mozz thing is unspecified
2020-06-30 20:49:14	acdw	yes it is!
2020-06-30 20:49:21	acdw	it's all kinds of weirdness
2020-06-30 20:49:37	makeworld	It's pretty cool though
2020-06-30 20:49:51	makeworld	I was so excited to see it work for gemget, and it's on my v1.3.0 Amfora roadmap
2020-06-30 20:49:55	acdw	I'm jsut worried it'll replace IRC and I am not ready for that
2020-06-30 20:50:28	makeworld	It won't
2020-06-30 20:50:29	@xq	haha :D
2020-06-30 20:50:43	makeworld	Because of network effect, and bc there aren't widespread clients for streaming
2020-06-30 20:51:36	lukee	wont most clients just time out waiting for the server to close the connection?
2020-06-30 20:51:53	lukee	which is what the spec says
2020-06-30 20:51:56	acdw	I would think so lukee
2020-06-30 20:52:07	@xq	kristall will kill the connection after 100 MB or 5 seconds timeout
2020-06-30 20:52:15	acdw	That's what kristall does, I'm pretty sure bollux does that -- those are the two most important ;)
2020-06-30 20:52:57	lukee	now then, there are other clients at the table here! :)
2020-06-30 20:53:27	acdw	hahaha
2020-06-30 20:53:54	acdw	but now that I'm thinking about it, it would be hard for a client to know if the connection was just crappy (and thus timedout) or a stream
2020-06-30 20:54:10	acdw	unless there was like, a status code (yes, the ML thread is coming back to me now)
2020-06-30 20:54:32	acdw	And now I understand xq's 100 MB *or* 5 second timeout
2020-06-30 20:54:33	acdw	very clever
2020-06-30 20:55:06	@xq	i have a hard limit of 100 MB per file atm
2020-06-30 20:55:22	lukee	that is a very long text/gemini file
2020-06-30 20:55:50	@xq	acdw: wanna try something cool?
2020-06-30 20:55:54	kensanata	Well, you can download albums via Gemini...
2020-06-30 20:56:00	acdw	uhh yes always
2020-06-30 20:56:25	acdw	oh I should totes write a >100MB text/gemini file
2020-06-30 20:56:30	lukee	haha
2020-06-30 20:56:31	acdw	like... a novel?
2020-06-30 20:56:32	kensanata	And I wrote that Atom feed generator and send solderpunk an email. :)
2020-06-30 20:57:22	kensanata	I wonder how large the largest text file is on Gutenberg. For text, 100MB is like... the Mahabarata for sure!
2020-06-30 20:57:40	acdw	what is that, 100 Million bytes? So 100 Million characters?
2020-06-30 20:57:58	lukee	just another day on IRC
2020-06-30 20:58:26	acdw	The average word in English is 4.7 characters, so... 21276595 words
2020-06-30 20:58:38	acdw	it'd take a while lukee to get that many words on IRC
2020-06-30 20:59:09	lukee	enough monkeys and typewriters should do the trick
2020-06-30 20:59:23	kensanata	"At about 1.8 million words in total, the Mahābhārata is roughly ten times the length of the Iliad and the Odyssey combined, or about four times the length of the Rāmāyaṇa."
2020-06-30 20:59:49	kensanata	So, 5 characters × 2 million words = 10MB...
2020-06-30 20:59:57	kensanata	Peanuts!!
2020-06-30 21:00:07	acdw	well dang... you'd have to copy-paste the Mahabharata like, 10 times to get to 100 MB
2020-06-30 21:00:28	acdw	now if you use the original characters (which are probably big unicode characters), you double the size "for free"
2020-06-30 21:00:30	kensanata	Oh well, time for bedover here...
2020-06-30 21:00:35	kensanata	Haha!
2020-06-30 21:00:35	wgreenhouse	xq: fwiw this limit would prevent downloading gemini://konpeito.media 's mixtapes correctly
2020-06-30 21:00:37	kensanata	Or times four.
2020-06-30 21:00:59	kensanata	Perhaps there's a limit per MIME-type!
2020-06-30 21:01:01	wgreenhouse	those .zips are around 140-145 MB
2020-06-30 21:01:17	lukee	ouch
2020-06-30 21:01:32	lukee	there goes my dial up connection
2020-06-30 21:01:36	acdw	From what I can tell devanagari is U+0900 - U+097F
2020-06-30 21:01:40	acdw	so ... 2 bytes each?
2020-06-30 21:02:27	@xq	wgreenhouse: i want to make that configurable
2020-06-30 21:02:32	@xq	acdw: gemini://random-projects.net/torture/index.gemini
2020-06-30 21:02:35	@xq	try the last link
2020-06-30 21:02:44	kensanata	acdw: Now if only I would get off my ass and read it...
2020-06-30 21:02:50	kensanata	But now, bed time!
2020-06-30 21:02:52		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-06-30 21:03:00	acdw	kensanata: lemme know how it goes!
2020-06-30 21:03:12	⚡	acdw afk
2020-06-30 21:04:07	@xq	wgreenhouse: i just took the value from the FAQ saying that you shouldn't serve large files (probably >= 100MB) :D
2020-06-30 21:07:39	lukee	they are very large for a protocol that has no concept of Content-Length
2020-06-30 21:08:00	lukee	they could be 1Gb and no one would know
2020-06-30 21:08:46	lukee	The next mix should be called Mahābhāratax10.mp3
2020-06-30 21:09:20	wgreenhouse	xq: sure :D just wanted to offer a real-world counterexample
2020-06-30 21:12:33	@xq	yeah, i'm aware of that :)
2020-06-30 21:12:42	@xq	will be implement as soon as i implement streaming data
2020-06-30 21:13:20	wgreenhouse	lukee: it was a little scary getting them because the client I use (elpher) holds the whole thing in memory until the connection closes :D
2020-06-30 21:13:31	wgreenhouse	suspenseful
2020-06-30 21:16:29	lukee	Bet you are glad it wasnt 1Gb
2020-06-30 21:16:35	wgreenhouse	sure am. :D
2020-06-30 21:18:33	lukee	It would be a cruel trick for a server to drip feed it slowly through the pipe
2020-06-30 21:19:22	lukee	like FTP as far as I remember.
2020-06-30 21:19:35	lukee	Download this file, it will take some time, no idea how long though...
2020-06-30 21:22:12	wgreenhouse	hah
2020-06-30 21:22:21	wgreenhouse	yeah, that is FTP-ish.
2020-06-30 21:28:50	makeworld	Hmm yeah I should probably put a size limit on Amfora
2020-06-30 21:29:02	makeworld	I'm thinking 50 MB, or probably lower
2020-06-30 21:29:32	makeworld	*MiB
2020-06-30 21:29:34	lukee	that was going to be my next suggestion of a flag for gemget too
2020-06-30 21:30:22	makeworld	Oh yeah that could be good. Could you make an issue so I remember?
2020-06-30 21:30:27	lukee	and server timeout
2020-06-30 21:30:32	makeworld	I will be releasing soon
2020-06-30 21:30:47	lukee	well, not necessarily timeout, but abandon after n seconds
2020-06-30 21:30:54	makeworld	Yeah, the timeout is 15s right now. But that's for a connection, not reading
2020-06-30 21:31:07	lukee	yes, slightly different
2020-06-30 21:31:24	lukee	I'll create an issue
2020-06-30 21:32:27	makeworld	Great!
2020-06-30 21:37:22	⚡	lukee just created two new issues so they can be handled independently if necessary
2020-06-30 21:46:08	makeworld	Great, thanks!
2020-06-30 21:53:20		omse has quit (Client exited)
2020-06-30 21:56:26	makeworld	lukee: Okay, gemget v1.3.0 released
2020-06-30 21:56:40		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-06-30 21:57:01	makeworld	Your two issues will probably be in v1.4.0, no timeline on that though
2020-06-30 22:04:43	acdw	xq: IDK waht happen but I don't think the MP4 link is working
2020-06-30 22:05:01	acdw	oh nope, nvm -- I didn't click it right apparently :P
2020-06-30 22:05:31	acdw	wel it's not playing but i'm loving the interfac!
2020-06-30 22:10:18	epoch_	would it make more sense to just have a markup option for metadata?
2020-06-30 22:10:42	epoch_	(than to try to use the first header as a title)
2020-06-30 22:18:35	acdw	I don't think that'd be very popular -- it'd be waay too easy to abuse
2020-06-30 22:50:00	epoch_	yeah, probably not.
2020-06-30 22:53:07	acdw	I don't think we're going to get much ore out of those header lines
2020-06-30 22:53:10	acdw	which i'm okay with
2020-06-30 22:59:05		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 01:04:44	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 01:25:51		xfnw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 01:26:31	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 03:48:01	epoch_	a standard format for search results (maybe rss or atom?) mixed with then open search descriptor format would be nice. do many engines output search results as rss or atom?
2020-07-01 04:06:10		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 04:08:14	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 04:25:35	▬▬▶	symbiont has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 04:32:44		symbiont has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 04:49:26		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2020-07-01 04:51:35	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 04:51:35	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-07-01 07:27:24	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 08:11:50	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 08:19:07	@julienxx	hi!
2020-07-01 08:25:02	@xq	hey julienxx
2020-07-01 08:27:25	@xq	people are awesome
2020-07-01 08:27:25	@xq	https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/23336
2020-07-01 08:35:10	lukee	I discovered a gopher to gemini proxy today.
2020-07-01 08:35:19	lukee	And there is a gemini to gopher proxy too
2020-07-01 08:35:27	lukee	so I present, INCEPTION
2020-07-01 08:35:31	lukee	gopher://ake.crabdance.com:77/1gemini://80h.dev/agena/ake.crabdance.com:77/1
2020-07-01 08:35:38	@tomasino	;)
2020-07-01 08:35:57	lukee	a gopher view of a gemini proxy of a gopher view of gemini homepage
2020-07-01 08:36:33	lukee	I havent found a way to make it go deeper... yet
2020-07-01 08:46:30	kensanata	https://alexschroeder.ch/soweli-lukin?url=gopher%3A%2F%2Fake.crabdance.com%3A77%2F1gemini%3A%2F%2Fgemini.circumlunar.space%2Fcapcom%2F
2020-07-01 08:47:15	kensanata	I'm sure by this time all the devils are cackling.
2020-07-01 08:47:50	kensanata	xq: Nice!
2020-07-01 08:51:45	⚡	kensanata makes sure only day pages from my homepage end up on CAPCOM...
2020-07-01 08:53:02	lukee	cool.
2020-07-01 08:53:08	lukee	I'm sure we can go deeper...
2020-07-01 08:53:48	lukee	are there any gemini or gopher reverse web proxies?
2020-07-01 08:55:25	@xq	yeah
2020-07-01 09:03:15	@xq	tomasino: i found this the other day: https://i.redd.it/eva0v0zuyks41.png
2020-07-01 09:20:07	CommunistWolf	is there any work on something like the tor browser bundle for gemini? it must be approx 1 million times easier ^^
2020-07-01 09:21:24	@tomasino	Solderpunk has a proxy as a service thing
2020-07-01 09:21:33	@tomasino	agena? Something like that
2020-07-01 09:21:48	@tomasino	I think I might be running it on tilde.black on 1966
2020-07-01 09:22:02	@tomasino	Not 100% sure. Haven't checked in a while
2020-07-01 09:22:42	@xq	CommunistWolf: do you mean bundle tor + a gemini browser?
2020-07-01 09:23:48	CommunistWolf	something like that, yeah. so people don't need to run tor separately as a client
2020-07-01 09:24:15	@xq	ah
2020-07-01 09:24:17	CommunistWolf	there's orbot for android as well, same kind of idea. just a shiny "hide muh metadata" button
2020-07-01 09:24:56	@tomasino	Krystall ís about to get fancier
2020-07-01 09:25:01	@tomasino	;)
2020-07-01 09:25:49	@xq	tomasino: yeah, i'm thinking to implement proxy support
2020-07-01 09:25:57	@xq	which would help people build something like torbrowser for kristall
2020-07-01 09:27:01	@xq	btw, i want to bundle a set of "starting points" with kristall
2020-07-01 09:27:13	@xq	so, have a standard set of favourites
2020-07-01 09:28:47	@xq	i would at least include GUS, solderpunks main site, the kristall website
2020-07-01 09:28:51	@xq	any other ideas?
2020-07-01 09:40:13		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 09:46:40	dkibi	capcom
2020-07-01 09:47:00	dkibi	I think capcom is a nice starting point for random browsing
2020-07-01 09:48:36	@xq	oh yeah, good idea
2020-07-01 09:51:37	@xq	i'm thinking about also including Astrobotany
2020-07-01 10:28:57		yeti has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 10:41:31	▬▬▶	yeti has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 10:49:05	kensanata	xq: Getting them involved in a community project.
2020-07-01 10:50:26	Sario528	xq: Definitely include Astrobotany
2020-07-01 10:51:36	kensanata	With four Gemini services running on my server I'm starting to feel like I need a dispatcher at the front, delegating to the various end points so that people can just use port 1965.
2020-07-01 10:52:29	kensanata	It would do just that: listen on *:1965 and dispatch to various other ports based on hostname.
2020-07-01 10:53:35	kensanata	What would you call this, a dispatcher? a front-end? it's not a load balancer. Is it a reverse proxy?
2020-07-01 10:53:52	kensanata	Also, reverse proxy is a lousy name.
2020-07-01 11:50:45		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		mmmattyx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		inex has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		links has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		natpen has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		epoch_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		Ernoz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		siina has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		gernot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		yeti has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		dozens has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		coleman has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		peterbb has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		Nalaph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		tuesday has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		snoe60 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		sndr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		Sario528 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		pekka20 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		wangofett has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		lvgx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		exprez135 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		everbern has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:45		tadzik has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:46		paper_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:46		kensanata has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:46		xq has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:46		notandinus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:46		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:46		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:46		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:46		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:50:46		omse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	snoe60 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	ine has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	dozens has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	tadzik has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	yeti has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oqo xq tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by institute.tilde.chat
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	epoch_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	gernot has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	inex has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo ben julienxx] by institute.tilde.chat
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:01	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:18		yeti has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 11:53:22	▬▬▶	everbern_1 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:53:39		inex has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 11:53:59		southerntofu has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:53:59		Ernoz has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:53:59		erin has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:53:59		pekka20 has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:54:06		everbern has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 11:54:18		gernot has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:54:18		dodolz has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:54:18		bard has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 11:55:07		tadzik has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 11:56:12		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 11:57:27		Nalaph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 11:58:18	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 11:59:41		kayw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 12:02:14	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 12:03:27		coleman has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 12:05:02	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 12:10:37		notandinus has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 12:11:34	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 12:11:45		lel has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 12:11:45		mmmattyx has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 12:11:45		benoliver999 has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 12:11:45		cat has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 12:22:42	▬▬▶	tadzik has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 12:23:55		styan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 12:25:07	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 12:25:27	@xq	hello netsplit!
2020-07-01 12:25:42		Ekkie has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 12:25:54	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 12:41:12	~tiwesdaeg	always fun
2020-07-01 12:41:19		peterbb has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 13:26:48	kensanata	Now that I have written gemini-dispatch I'm no longer sure I want it. https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-dispatch/about/
2020-07-01 13:31:28	~tiwesdaeg	gemserv is doing something different for multiple domains
2020-07-01 13:32:19	@xq	gemserv is providing "real" virtual hosts
2020-07-01 13:32:21	@xq	it's really nea
2020-07-01 13:32:22	@xq	*neat
2020-07-01 13:32:32	@xq	kensanata: systemd is easy!
2020-07-01 13:33:43	@xq	https://bpa.st/VNKA
2020-07-01 13:33:49	@xq	if your service is non-forking
2020-07-01 13:33:50	kensanata	xq: A few days ago you told me you could help me out with my socket problem; now you're saying you can help me out with the systemd setup?
2020-07-01 13:33:59	kensanata	xq: Well, right now it is...
2020-07-01 13:34:06	@xq	:D
2020-07-01 13:34:10	@xq	oh yeah, socket thing
2020-07-01 13:35:35	@xq	https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.service.html
2020-07-01 13:37:55	@xq	kensanata: what does --setsid do exactly? fork the process?
2020-07-01 13:38:21	kensanata	I've been checking the man page for my server framework. I have a choice of "personalities" including fork (which is what I use), INET, MultiType (!?), Multiplex (!?!), PreForkSimple (that's what I know from my Apache setup), PreFork (I guess that's the "complicated" version), Single, and HTTP. Wow.
2020-07-01 13:38:34	kensanata	xq: Yes, exactly. --setsid is for backgrounding.
2020-07-01 13:38:37	@xq	okay
2020-07-01 13:38:45	@xq	so, we don't go background, it's easier that way
2020-07-01 13:39:09	kensanata	OK, cool.
2020-07-01 13:39:13	@xq	you should be able to just use the template i've sent above to provide a systemd service
2020-07-01 13:39:21	@xq	explanations for each field can be found on the systemd docs linked above
2020-07-01 13:39:26	@xq	i find them quite easy to understand
2020-07-01 13:39:27	kensanata	I'll put that in the notes. Thanks!
2020-07-01 13:39:41	@xq	did you resolve the socket problem?
2020-07-01 13:41:42		everbern_1 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 13:42:15	kensanata	xq: Not really. I just rewrote my test so that I can still verify how it works, but I think I need to learn more about sockets.
2020-07-01 13:42:52	@xq	can you give me a piece of context again?
2020-07-01 13:42:56	@xq	i totally forgot about this
2020-07-01 13:43:29	kensanata	Sure. Let me find the code.
2020-07-01 13:44:36	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 13:45:21	kensanata	I have a function that I call from tests to act as a very simple gemini client. https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-wiki/tree/t/test.pl#n101 It sends the request URL, \r\n, and optionally some more text (because I want to test my titan implementation as well, i.e. text upload). Now, the server might respond with an error after it gets the URL.
2020-07-01 13:45:47	kensanata	But my client is dumb, it continues sending the text. And then I have a deadlock, or the server hangs up, I don't know. And the error message is lost.
2020-07-01 13:46:18	kensanata	In the code I linked, I'm assuming I should write something between lines 114 and 115. But what?
2020-07-01 13:48:29	@xq	it shouldn't matter if you send some data
2020-07-01 13:49:18	@xq	oh and a thing: just bind your socket to port 0
2020-07-01 13:49:22	@xq	and query the bound port
2020-07-01 13:49:32	@xq	this will yield a free local port :)
2020-07-01 13:51:45	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 13:55:38	natpen	:taps microphone: ...is this thing on?
2020-07-01 13:55:41	@xq	hello!
2020-07-01 13:56:01	kensanata	xq: Hm, now that you mention it, that does sounds familiar. I think I had that running for a bit. I just don't remember why I decided to use the more complicated version.
2020-07-01 13:56:15	kensanata	natpen: Hello hello!
2020-07-01 13:56:16	natpen	Oh my goodness, I've successfully connected to irc! Hi everyone :)
2020-07-01 13:58:49	kensanata	I had the impression that your nick has been online for a while, now.
2020-07-01 13:59:05	kensanata	So do you have a backlog of a hundred pages, now?
2020-07-01 13:59:42	kensanata	Also, I'm Alex Schroeder – we talked about GUS and robots.txt by email. :)
2020-07-01 14:01:56	natpen	I've been messing with irc configuration this morning... I thought I was connected too, but my messages didn't go out and I didn't see anyone else's messages. Sorry for the confusion, clearly I'm not good at IRC. Maybe #gemini can inspire me to change that though!
2020-07-01 14:02:46	natpen	And hi! Yes, I recognized your nick from reading some of your blog, where you described some of the backstory for "kensanata". I really enjoy your posts!
2020-07-01 14:03:31	kensanata	Thanks! :)
2020-07-01 14:04:12	kensanata	As for IRC, I can only help if you're an Emacs person. Outside of Emacs... :throws hands into the air:
2020-07-01 14:04:15	@xq	getting an IRC config wrong is also an achievement :D
2020-07-01 14:04:19	@xq	What client are you using?
2020-07-01 14:05:21	natpen	rcirc. I tried irssi, but more confusion ensued, so I reverted back to the (relative) comfort of elisp...
2020-07-01 14:05:41	makeworld	Hey, you're here!
2020-07-01 14:05:53	makeworld	👋
2020-07-01 14:06:19	natpen	I know! So exciting. Never has Gemini felt more synchronous :)
2020-07-01 14:07:36	makeworld	Haha
2020-07-01 14:08:16	kensanata	natpen: I also use rcirc, so if you have questions, feel free to ask...
2020-07-01 14:12:48	natpen	kensanata: Thank you!
2020-07-01 14:16:11	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 14:16:11	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 14:16:11	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 14:16:11	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 14:16:29	kensanata	xq: When I have my gemini-wiki.service file, how do I install it? sudo systemctl enable gemini-wiki ./gemini-wiki.service or something like that?
2020-07-01 14:16:51	@xq	ah
2020-07-01 14:16:59	@xq	just copy/link the file to /etc/systemd/system/
2020-07-01 14:17:08	@xq	this is where all manual service files reside
2020-07-01 14:24:28	kensanata	Yay, got it working. Thanks, xq!
2020-07-01 14:24:44	@xq	you're welcome!
2020-07-01 14:25:00	@xq	the service initialization stuff of systemd is quite awesome imho
2020-07-01 14:25:26	⚡	tiwesdaeg fumbles around with /etc/rc.conf
2020-07-01 14:26:09	~tiwesdaeg	worst thing about systemd? they swapped the service and command positions
2020-07-01 14:26:09	@xq	but: i haven't used other service managers yet
2020-07-01 14:26:16	⚡	xq is too young for this kind of linux exerience
2020-07-01 14:26:22	kensanata	xq: I've been using Monit for all this stuff. The web interface basically sold me on it. But now I'm no longer sure. :)
2020-07-01 14:26:30	~tiwesdaeg	service nginx restart / systemctl restart nginx
2020-07-01 14:26:50	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: Hah.
2020-07-01 14:26:58	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: That also confuss me everytime.
2020-07-01 14:26:59	@xq	i like the "restart foo" more :D
2020-07-01 14:27:07	~tiwesdaeg	drives me nuts, since I used bsd and linux
2020-07-01 14:27:07	@xq	but that's just the thing you're used to
2020-07-01 14:27:34	paper	nginx -t && nginx -s reload is better?
2020-07-01 14:27:42	kensanata	But then there's also monit reload (not implemented) but monit restart goes, apachectl reload (not implemented) but apachectl graceful (works) stuff like that has been driving me crazy for years/
2020-07-01 14:27:52	@xq	paper: reload isn't restart! :D
2020-07-01 14:27:57	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 14:28:06	paper	no, it isn't but it's enough for most cases :)
2020-07-01 14:28:40	kensanata	hypnotoad alexschroeder.pl starts it, hypnotoad -s alexschroeder.pl stops it, gaaah. Where's the emoji where you rip out all your hair?
2020-07-01 14:28:43	~tiwesdaeg	I think one is hierarchical and the other is more english word order
2020-07-01 14:28:45	kensanata	👴
2020-07-01 14:29:00		plugd has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 14:29:27	~tiwesdaeg	service(controls many things) nginx(the specific service) restart(the command for that service)
2020-07-01 14:30:07	~tiwesdaeg	if I were going to verbally tell you to do it, I'd say 'restart nginx'
2020-07-01 14:31:27	▬▬▶	yeti has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 14:34:50	kensanata	I wrote up my thoughts regarding the dispatching and I think I'll use redirects instead... gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1968/page/2020-07-01%20Dispatching
2020-07-01 14:39:46	@xq	kensanata: quick response:
2020-07-01 14:40:00	@xq	TLS SNI (Server Name Indication) is mandatory for Gemini now exactly because of that
2020-07-01 14:40:09	@xq	so you can serve multiple domains with the same server
2020-07-01 14:40:44	kensanata	xq: is there a write-up somewhere? I dropped out of the SNI discussion on the mailing list...
2020-07-01 14:41:00	@xq	errr
2020-07-01 14:41:02	@xq	good question :D
2020-07-01 14:41:13	@xq	it resulted in a spec change
2020-07-01 14:42:35	kensanata	I can see "Use of the Server Name Indication (SNI) extension to TLS is also mandatory, to facilitate name-based virtual hosting." in the spec, indeed.
2020-07-01 14:43:11	kensanata	The sections 4.1 to 4.3 don't really tell me what I need to do, though.
2020-07-01 14:43:32	@xq	i think it's up to you and your TLS library :D
2020-07-01 14:44:21	kensanata	🤔
2020-07-01 14:57:28		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 14:57:28		Ernoz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 14:57:28		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 14:57:28		pekka20 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 14:57:45	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 14:57:45	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 14:57:45	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 14:57:45	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 15:06:18	kensanata	Is the bombadillo author on this channel?
2020-07-01 15:07:31	kensanata	I downloaded the binaries and wonder I'm supposed to install properly, on this sort-of-Debian. I guess the files go somewhere into ~/.local -- but I guess I only know where to put the binary itself. No idea about the .desktop, .png, and man page.
2020-07-01 15:08:09	⚡	kensanata finds some desktop files in .local/share/applications so there's that
2020-07-01 15:08:48	kensanata	Oh, and .local/share/man/man1 is also there... Lucky me.
2020-07-01 15:13:18	natpen	<kensanata> I think if you look in the repo's Makefile, you could probably see where it installs everything when you install from source, then follow suit with the precompiled assets.
2020-07-01 15:15:15	@julienxx	tiwesdaeg: it seems a mail from tilde.pink arrived in the ML
2020-07-01 15:15:21	kensanata	natpen: yeah, makes sense.
2020-07-01 15:15:37	~tiwesdaeg	uh oh
2020-07-01 15:16:05	~tiwesdaeg	too many inboxes
2020-07-01 15:16:29	@xq	Rogue Advertisment!
2020-07-01 15:17:42	~tiwesdaeg	haha
2020-07-01 15:32:41		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 16:38:07	kensanata	Why is working on Gemini Wiki giving me such joy.
2020-07-01 16:38:28	kensanata	Must be something about the simplicity and the opportunity to start over?
2020-07-01 16:38:51	@xq	kensanata: proabably because of the same reasons i like to hack on Kristall?
2020-07-01 16:39:55	kensanata	xq: Maybe!
2020-07-01 16:41:30	kensanata	xq: I'd love to see a Kristall deb to install...
2020-07-01 16:41:45	@xq	if you give me the tools how to make one :D
2020-07-01 16:49:30		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 17:15:01		yali has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 17:15:04	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 17:16:36		southerntofu has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 17:16:36		Ernoz has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 17:16:36		erin has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 17:16:36		pekka20 has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-01 17:18:20		yeti has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 17:21:35		everbern has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-01 17:23:53	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 17:49:55	epoch_	.
2020-07-01 18:17:26	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 18:17:55	▬▬▶	gernot has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 18:18:02	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 18:19:16	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 18:19:20		peterbb has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 19:01:13	▬▬▶	yeti has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:01:13	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:01:13	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:01:13	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:01:13	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:01:13	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:01:13	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:04:18	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:04:18	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:04:18	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:04:18	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:14:50		gbmor has quit (quit: reboop)
2020-07-01 19:15:56	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 19:39:42	▬▬▶	natpen` has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 20:01:29	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 20:46:38		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 20:49:23	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 20:53:35	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 20:59:33	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 21:16:10	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 21:34:59		natpen` has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 21:35:08		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 21:35:19	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 21:37:40	thewetcrab	Hello, just wanted to drop by and say a massive thank you to everyone in Gopher, you have all inspired me to take my linux / design / and general computing skills further.
2020-07-01 21:37:49	thewetcrab	*in gemini
2020-07-01 21:38:06	thewetcrab	I know http:// isn't the protocol of choice here but this evening I am looking at python -m SimpleHTTPServer and python3 -m http.server
2020-07-01 21:38:17	thewetcrab	I don't think I would be investigating this tool if it wasn't for my involvment in gopher and gemini, so thank you for inspiring me to look at things on a deeper level :)
2020-07-01 21:41:33	@xq	hey thewetcrab
2020-07-01 21:41:58	thewetcrab	Hi xq
2020-07-01 21:42:11	thewetcrab	How are you? Have you been working on anything interesting lately?
2020-07-01 21:43:37	@xq	https://kristall.random-projects.net/
2020-07-01 21:43:54	@xq	Kristall hsa now it's own website, downloads and even packages for Void Linux and Arch Linux
2020-07-01 21:44:05	@xq	shoutout to companion_cube and ifreund here :)
2020-07-01 21:44:38	thewetcrab	Small Internet - I am noting the capitalization of Small Internet :)
2020-07-01 21:45:26	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 21:45:33	companion_cube	\o/
2020-07-01 21:46:14	thewetcrab	I am very much liking the look of Kristall
2020-07-01 21:46:25	@xq	thanks :)
2020-07-01 21:46:27	@xq	oh hey acdw
2020-07-01 21:46:33	thewetcrab	Please allow me to compliment you on the asci artwork at the of the webpage too!
2020-07-01 21:46:40		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-01 21:46:41	thewetcrab	How did you make that ascii text?
2020-07-01 21:47:10	@xq	http://patorjk.com/software/taag/
2020-07-01 21:47:15	@xq	there's this wonderful tool
2020-07-01 21:47:24		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 21:47:25	⚡	xq doesn't take all the credits here
2020-07-01 21:47:34	@xq	but Taag is just freaking awesome
2020-07-01 21:47:44	thewetcrab	Since learning about Gemini and Gopher I have been researching the Old Internet and especially the area of ascii and ansi art.
2020-07-01 21:48:26	acdw	ascii art is the best
2020-07-01 21:48:31	@xq	ansi art ftw
2020-07-01 21:48:35	@xq	Petscii master race though
2020-07-01 21:48:38	acdw	hey xq!
2020-07-01 21:48:47	acdw	what is the diff b/w ascii and ansi? encoding?
2020-07-01 21:48:53	acdw	if that's the case, then i'd say UTF art
2020-07-01 21:48:55	thewetcrab	I think I love ansi over ascii, ACiD 4 the win! ;)
2020-07-01 21:48:56	acdw	UT-FART
2020-07-01 21:49:09	@xq	ascii is 7 bit
2020-07-01 21:49:26	@xq	ansi is a extension to 8 bit with the upper 128 characters used with an ansi code page
2020-07-01 21:49:30	thewetcrab	acw I think ansi allows you to use an extended charecter set, those extra charecters allow the art work to be more detailed.
2020-07-01 21:49:32	@xq	usually cp437 (standard ibm/dos)
2020-07-01 21:49:33	acdw	oh nice
2020-07-01 21:49:38	thewetcrab	which is what I thin xq is saying.
2020-07-01 21:49:41	@xq	yep
2020-07-01 21:50:13	thewetcrab	ha ha glad I have sparked off a conversation about ansi art :D
2020-07-01 21:50:34	thewetcrab	Text and Text Charecters are becoming a great passion of mine!
2020-07-01 21:50:56	acdw	they're the marriage of my two loves -- text and also art
2020-07-01 21:51:03	thewetcrab	Can you remember what 'font' is used at the top of the Kristall webpage?
2020-07-01 21:51:51	thewetcrab	Yes me too I think acdw. I remember ansi from my commodore 64 days, I loved it then, and I am loving rediscovering it again :)
2020-07-01 21:52:56	@xq	> Menlo, Monaco, "Courier New", monospace
2020-07-01 21:52:59	@xq	it's one of those :D
2020-07-01 21:53:14	thewetcrab	thank you xq
2020-07-01 21:54:03	acdw	:)
2020-07-01 21:54:51	⚡	xq has to leave for today
2020-07-01 21:54:55	thewetcrab	Ansi shadow is nice too
2020-07-01 21:54:58	@xq	23:54 already
2020-07-01 21:55:03	thewetcrab	Ah sorry to see you go xq :/
2020-07-01 21:55:07	@xq	see ya tomorrow *waves*
2020-07-01 21:55:09	thewetcrab	Great to chat with you :)
2020-07-01 21:55:11	thewetcrab	Bye for now
2020-07-01 21:59:50	acdw	o/
2020-07-01 22:13:08	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 22:13:45	makeworld	acdw: There's also ANSI control codes
2020-07-01 22:14:21	epoch_	ansi art also usually ... yeah. makeworld said it first.
2020-07-01 22:14:23	makeworld	Which are used for colors in the terminal
2020-07-01 22:14:38	makeworld	Usually that's the ANSI people mean when they say it
2020-07-01 22:14:57	epoch_	ansi terminal color codes + code-page 437 block-drawing characters
2020-07-01 22:17:18	acdw	oh yes, I know about the codes! And box-drawing/block-drawing ... so nice
2020-07-01 22:17:25	acdw	I didn't realize all that was ansi
2020-07-01 22:18:43	epoch_	printf "\x1b[32mgreen\x1b[0m"
2020-07-01 22:19:45	acdw	or printf '\e[32m%s\e[0m' green ;)
2020-07-01 22:19:45	thewetcrab	Never heard it refered to as box-drawing / block-drawing before. but I understand why it would be called that acdw :)
2020-07-01 22:19:54	acdw	:D
2020-07-01 22:20:04	thewetcrab	Does any one know of modern tools to creat ansi art?
2020-07-01 22:20:26	thewetcrab	I heard back in the day they would draw each line individually, which must have been some fantastic task!
2020-07-01 22:20:38	makeworld	Yeah wow
2020-07-01 22:20:39	epoch_	I only know of a classic tool. ACiD draw or whatever it was.
2020-07-01 22:20:48	makeworld	But no I don't know any current tools
2020-07-01 22:20:50	epoch_	I usually draw my ascii art in nano
2020-07-01 22:20:51	epoch_	or vim
2020-07-01 22:21:06	acdw	I use vim !
2020-07-01 22:21:11	acdw	I even wrote a thing
2020-07-01 22:21:24	epoch_	https://16colo.rs/
2020-07-01 22:21:29	acdw	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw/2020-06-04-ascii-art-vim.gmi
2020-07-01 22:21:36	epoch_	also, if you want multiplayer ascii/ansi art...
2020-07-01 22:21:41	makeworld	I think I'm pissing off dev of the terminal UI toolkit Amfora uses lol, I'm filing lots of issues
2020-07-01 22:21:51	epoch_	ssh://torus@ascii.town/
2020-07-01 22:22:00	epoch_	^ made by june who's in #meta probably
2020-07-01 22:22:16	acdw	epoch_ I'm disappointed in my own skills now...
2020-07-01 22:22:19	acdw	those are so beautiful
2020-07-01 22:22:48	epoch_	   _.-._
2020-07-01 22:22:48	epoch_	  |_| | |-.
2020-07-01 22:22:48	epoch_	 /  '-| | |\
2020-07-01 22:22:48	epoch_	(   ___)'-' |
2020-07-01 22:22:48	epoch_	 \   \     /
2020-07-01 22:22:48	epoch_	  \       /
2020-07-01 22:22:48	epoch_	   |     |
2020-07-01 22:22:50	epoch_	no worries
2020-07-01 22:23:51	makeworld	Woah ascii.town is crazy
2020-07-01 22:23:57	epoch_	don't get better by giving up
2020-07-01 22:24:28	epoch_	didja see the web-explorer https://ascii.town/explore.html#x=1&y=0 ?
2020-07-01 22:25:00	acdw	I have to remember ascii.town when I get home
2020-07-01 22:25:02	acdw	and can ssh
2020-07-01 22:26:02	epoch_	There's also IRC art
2020-07-01 22:26:07	epoch_	https://supernets.org/docs/ascii-ansi-art-flooding.html
2020-07-01 22:26:23	epoch_	which uses the IRC color codes
2020-07-01 22:26:54	epoch_	and unicode for the newer stuff
2020-07-01 22:27:22	acdw	oh cool
2020-07-01 22:27:23	epoch_	btw, you can use iconv to convert between cp437 and utf-8
2020-07-01 22:27:35	epoch_	if you want to view some cp437 art in your terminal
2020-07-01 22:28:28	epoch_	printf "\xdb\n" | iconv -f CP437
2020-07-01 22:28:28	epoch_	█
2020-07-01 22:28:48	epoch_	(somehow I have memorized that \xdb is a block in cp437)
2020-07-01 22:30:26	epoch_	https://thebackupbox.net/~epoch/art/long_cock2
2020-07-01 22:31:10	acdw	\x de block
2020-07-01 22:31:24	thewetcrab	Did someone here say they write ascii art?
2020-07-01 22:31:29	epoch_	o/
2020-07-01 22:32:44	thewetcrab	how did you learn epoch_?
2020-07-01 22:33:03	thewetcrab	The hand thing you posted it so cool!
2020-07-01 22:33:15	acdw	thewetcrab: I do a little bit. self-taught and not great, lol
2020-07-01 22:33:22	acdw	I agree the hand thing is rad tho
2020-07-01 22:34:17	epoch_	I don't know if I remember how I learned.
2020-07-01 22:35:17	epoch_	it probably helped knowing how to draw before attempting ascii art
2020-07-01 22:36:15	epoch_	usually there's a lot of trial and error and stuff not looking right
2020-07-01 22:36:48	epoch_	and implying lines through the space between columns and rows
2020-07-01 22:38:13	epoch_	I made the fist after having looked for one for a while. seemed like something anarchist hackers would have made already.
2020-07-01 22:38:27	thewetcrab	How did you learn acdw?
2020-07-01 22:39:29	thewetcrab	Ah so sorry I have to go now, i will try to find you both here tomorrow so we can chat more about this
2020-07-01 22:39:39	epoch_	:) kk
2020-07-01 22:39:49	thewetcrab	Hope you all have a fantastic time have ever you are doing over the next few hours :)
2020-07-01 22:44:46	acdw	thewetcrab: if you're still here I kind of taught myself
2020-07-01 22:44:50	acdw	or I'll tell you about ti later
2020-07-01 22:51:05	epoch_	is jgs still online?
2020-07-01 22:51:22	epoch_	oh dang, she has a wikipedia page
2020-07-01 22:51:43	epoch_	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Stark
2020-07-01 22:52:09		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 22:52:59		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 22:53:08	acdw	oh that's amazing -- I was wondering what jgs stood for
2020-07-01 22:55:11		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-01 22:55:33	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 22:59:21	epoch_	https://web.archive.org/web/20121004034534/http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/index.html#home
2020-07-01 23:05:33		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-01 23:09:00	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-01 23:54:45	▬▬▶	symbiont has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 00:08:56		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 00:09:01		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 00:10:39	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 00:15:06		symbiont has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 00:32:39		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 00:34:18	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 00:38:22		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 00:50:28	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 00:57:28		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 01:00:58	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 01:25:20	styan	xq: Remember that `install -D' is non-portable, NetBSD and FreeBSD use `-D' to specify the destination-directory. :-)
2020-07-02 02:15:58		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 02:29:41	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 02:42:42		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 02:45:10		notandinus has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 02:46:45	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 04:17:46		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 04:17:56		kayw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 04:18:04	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 04:21:11	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 04:43:13		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 04:47:49	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 04:58:19	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 05:03:50		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 05:05:48	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 05:09:52		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 05:16:02	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 05:18:46	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 05:49:56	drskrzyk	halp, I've discovered elpher and I might never leave emacs now
2020-07-02 06:07:53	wgreenhouse	drskrzyk: elpher is terrific
2020-07-02 06:08:15	wgreenhouse	drskrzyk: but, like much elisp, also sufficiently unfinished to warrant you to stay in emacs to hack on it. :D
2020-07-02 06:08:23	wgreenhouse	e.g. it needs multi buffer support like eww
2020-07-02 06:08:39	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 06:18:01	drskrzyk	wgreenhouse: yeah, I found that out the hard way :)
2020-07-02 06:33:08		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 06:37:16	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 06:59:16		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 07:02:45	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 07:08:15		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 07:10:41	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 07:26:04	@xq	styan: thanks for the hint!
2020-07-02 07:26:15	@xq	so back to mkdir -p + install
2020-07-02 07:51:25	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 07:58:43	styan	I did looked at the histories, because it is fun, and corutils added `-D` in 1998, NetBSD added theirs in 2002, FreeBSD ported NetBSD's additions in 2013, and OpenBSD added a `-D' in the style of corutils' (for some reason?) in 2015.  Also, Illumos' does not have a `-D' option.
2020-07-02 08:28:03	styan	Oh, DragonFly BSD's has a no-op `-D destdir' option for NetBSD compatibility from 2011.  I always forget about DragonflyBSD.
2020-07-02 08:28:23	kensanata	I think we need to decide whether Gemini is about ♊ or 💎.
2020-07-02 08:28:57	kensanata	Every time I join the channel I look at the topic and it feels so wrong. Is this a secret plot to make me more flexible?
2020-07-02 08:29:57	styan	I went on a tanget after mentioning `-D' incompatibility in reference to Kristall's Makefile.
2020-07-02 08:34:51	kensanata	Heh.
2020-07-02 08:40:00	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 09:25:22		notandinus has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-02 09:28:27	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 09:57:11	▬▬▶	solderpunk has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 10:00:12	solderpunk	Ahoy!
2020-07-02 10:00:34	@xq	hey solderpunk
2020-07-02 10:01:46	solderpunk	How is everybody in Geminispace these days?
2020-07-02 10:04:16	@xq	i'm fine. a bit rainy, but i feel great nontheless
2020-07-02 10:05:13	solderpunk	It's rained a little the past few days here, too, not much though.
2020-07-02 10:09:00	solderpunk	Not sure if folks saw my post on CAPCOM, but in case not, if anybody here is running Molly Brown for their Geminiserver, you should be aware of substantial recent changes!  gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk/cornedbeef/extensive-molly-brown-updates.gmi
2020-07-02 10:11:23		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 10:13:08	lukee	hi solderpunk
2020-07-02 10:13:29	lukee	I'll check it out, as I'm running Molly Brown
2020-07-02 10:14:24	solderpunk	Hi lukee!
2020-07-02 10:14:49	solderpunk	Please do, and let me know if anything doesn't appear to work as it should.
2020-07-02 10:14:59	solderpunk	I'm keen to have people kick the tyres on some of the new features.
2020-07-02 10:15:09	lukee	Actually I was just going to drop you an email anyway
2020-07-02 10:15:21	solderpunk	Oh!
2020-07-02 10:15:33	lukee	I've written a CGI module that automatically generates an Atom feed from a GMI gemlog index
2020-07-02 10:16:05	lukee	So I was going to ask you to add my feed to Capcom
2020-07-02 10:16:05	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/atom-feed.cgi?lukee
2020-07-02 10:16:31	solderpunk	Oh, sure, I'll do it now.
2020-07-02 10:16:56	lukee	There's a write up here gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/2-Jul-2020_GMI_based_feed_generator.gmi
2020-07-02 10:17:09	lukee	I'm just finishing the final touches
2020-07-02 10:17:22	solderpunk	If you're using CGI with Molly, be aware you might have to make a minor tweak to your config file, as the CGIPaths are no longer regular expressions but something more like a shell glob expression.
2020-07-02 10:17:33	lukee	The source is available so anyone can use it if they have a CGI compatible server
2020-07-02 10:17:45	solderpunk	Nice work!
2020-07-02 10:18:13	lukee	sorry what does "shell glob expression" mean - I'm not a linux native
2020-07-02 10:18:31	lukee	thanks!
2020-07-02 10:18:44	▬▬▶	natpen` has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 10:19:16	solderpunk	Oh, just that it supports basic wildcards like *
2020-07-02 10:19:49	solderpunk	It's less powerful than full-blown regexps, but much more user friendly for what I imagine the most typical use cases would be.
2020-07-02 10:20:03	lukee	oh ok fine.
2020-07-02 10:20:05	lukee	thanks
2020-07-02 10:21:09	natpen`	Hi again, everyone!
2020-07-02 10:21:20	lukee	hello natpen
2020-07-02 10:21:24	solderpunk	Oh, hi Natalie!
2020-07-02 10:21:40	solderpunk	First time I've seen you here. :)
2020-07-02 10:22:20	natpen`	Gemini inspired me to finally figure out how to connect to IRC. I got it working for the first time yesterday.
2020-07-02 10:22:40	lukee	you're the person behind GUS?
2020-07-02 10:22:49	natpen`	Yes, that's me!
2020-07-02 10:22:58	solderpunk	Haha, I am not a very big IRCer myself, #gemini has also dragged me out of the woodworks on occasion.
2020-07-02 10:22:58	drskrzyk	nice
2020-07-02 10:23:00	lukee	Its great work - we all use it every day
2020-07-02 10:23:31	lukee	I've been delving backwards from gemini to gopher and you really notice what a difference it makes to have a proper search engine
2020-07-02 10:24:03	lukee	(my next release of GemiNaut has gopher support as well as gemini)
2020-07-02 10:24:20	drskrzyk	solderpunk: hey nice to see you. timely. just got back on fedi/tilde and saw a bunch of people throwing around gemini uri... I fell down the rabbit hole yesterday evening
2020-07-02 10:24:49	drskrzyk	I've been plonking away at it for hours - anyhow, seriously cool.
2020-07-02 10:24:51	solderpunk	Hope you're enjoying yourself here!
2020-07-02 10:25:32	natpen`	<lukee> Oh thanks! That's really nice to hear!! I've really enjoyed making it too.
2020-07-02 10:27:19	lukee	natpen: I dont know if anyone asked you, but one idea we batted around on this IRC channel was whether there could be a 'backlinks' query in GUS
2020-07-02 10:27:48	lukee	it would assist in the question who has linked to me or responded to some page?
2020-07-02 10:28:33	lukee	perhaps you have this graph information already within GUS
2020-07-02 10:31:05	lukee	I've no idea how hard that would be to present it as a service though!
2020-07-02 10:31:08	solderpunk	I can totally see the use of that kind of thing, and don't at all mean to discourage that line of thought - but making such direct use of the link graph always scares me a little bit, because it runs the risk of incentivising link spamming.
2020-07-02 10:32:23	lukee	well there are all kinds of SEO type risks in gemini we've not had to deal with yet
2020-07-02 10:32:47	solderpunk	Yeah, it's easy not to worry about those kinds of things so much when everything is small and friendly.
2020-07-02 10:32:54	solderpunk	But it may not be so one day.
2020-07-02 10:33:17	solderpunk	I'm really not sure how best to prepare for it.
2020-07-02 10:33:24	natpen`	Oh, I've been thinking about that as well. I've implemented it as a feature and have been playing around with it locally. I have the same concerns about it, but I think what I implemented might work well. I'll describe it...
2020-07-02 10:33:31	lukee	similarly with automatic content pollution
2020-07-02 10:33:43	solderpunk	Ugh, yes, that would suck.
2020-07-02 10:34:10	solderpunk	I really hope the design of the protocol will go some way to removing the commercial incentives for that kind of thing, but who knows.
2020-07-02 10:34:32	⚡	lukee crosses fingers and looks to the heavens
2020-07-02 10:34:44	solderpunk	Haha, indeed.
2020-07-02 10:34:56	natpen`	I put a link to a page's backlinks page on each search result, but only in verbose mode, and if you click it, it takes you to a dedicated page that only shows a given page's backlinks. So it doesn't affect ranking in any way, but I think could still be interesting to authors?
2020-07-02 10:35:54	natpen`	Any ideas on how that could, or would, backfire?
2020-07-02 10:36:24	solderpunk	How are the backlinking pages ordered?
2020-07-02 10:36:33	natpen`	Randomized
2020-07-02 10:37:57	lukee	I think it would be nice to experiment with it
2020-07-02 10:38:01	solderpunk	Fair enough.
2020-07-02 10:38:01	lukee	as a user
2020-07-02 10:38:39	solderpunk	It's a really interesting (and difficult!) question, how to rank things in a search result to best trade-off between utility to the use and disincentivising spam and other nasties.
2020-07-02 10:39:20	lukee	Is the URL of the backlinks page contstructable from the source url e.g. gemini://gus/backlinksendpoint/sourcedomain/sourcepath or similar?
2020-07-02 10:39:40	solderpunk	And, actually, thinking about this now makes me realise how totally naive some ideas I had been pondering about content discovery were.
2020-07-02 10:40:04	lukee	most pages are only going to have one or at most a couple of back links
2020-07-02 10:40:41	lukee	it might be nice to filter these to show only backlinks from other domains to turn down the UI volume of links
2020-07-02 10:41:00	lukee	I dont think you generally need to see internal links in that list
2020-07-02 10:41:26	solderpunk	Oh, good point, internal links are far less interesting.
2020-07-02 10:41:47	natpen`	Yep - it's just gemini://gus.guru/backlinks?<URL> (note that that doesn't actually work yet, to be clear. none of this is live)
2020-07-02 10:42:59	lukee	perhaps then it does not need to be automatically shown in the listings, just offered as a service via gemini input
2020-07-02 10:43:28	natpen`	Ha... filtering same-domain backlinks was my first thought as well, which took me down a train of thought that maybe the right user interface is the same as the regular search result pages. I.e. with a query syntax, paging, etc.
2020-07-02 10:43:49	lukee	then users who are interested can create a parameterised url from their page, or people can query the graph from a specific point rather than have it everywher
2020-07-02 10:44:03	lukee	yes
2020-07-02 10:45:20	lukee	it might be interesting if each result on the list of backlinks was itself a list of links pointing to that page...
2020-07-02 10:45:32	natpen`	Definitely agreed on not "promoting" it - I really like how ranking results by content is working out, so I don't want to change that. And I think to see the link to the backlinks page, you'd have to enter GUS' verbose mode. I made a bit more accessible, so it's a toggle, but this would still NOT be information you'd get in a generic search results page.
2020-07-02 10:45:52	lukee	ok fine
2020-07-02 10:47:25	natpen`	Oh wow. I hadn't considered backlinks pages linking to other backlinks pages. Now my brain hurts. I need to think about that one more :)
2020-07-02 10:47:55	⚡	lukee sits upside down and browses geminispace backwards
2020-07-02 10:48:22	lukee	Can the web do that? :)
2020-07-02 10:48:25	solderpunk	I have to say, I'm so, so happy that the first Gemini search engine happened to be made by somebody who is not just technically capable and dedicated to it, but who is also really aware of and sensitive to all these thorny issues surrounding search and their possible consequences for the space.  I couldn't have asked for more!
2020-07-02 10:52:13	solderpunk	I'm curious, how often does GUS fetch the pages it has indexed?
2020-07-02 10:52:38	natpen`	Oh thanks! It's really my pleasure. I just want to see Gemini stay as wonderful as I think it currently is.
2020-07-02 10:53:37	natpen`	It varies... it used to be daily, when it would take <2 hours to crawl Geminispace. Now it takes about 48 hours, so I've been investing more energy into doing incremental crawls of specific content.
2020-07-02 10:55:03	natpen`	My latest thought is to try and figure out the most "impactful" pages to recrawl and just invalidate and recrawl them often - e.g., I think simply recrawling Capcom and Spacewalk on a more frequent basis would make a noticable improvement.
2020-07-02 10:55:15	solderpunk	Do you think there is value in Gemini having something like sitemap.xml, where site admins can declare the typical frequency of change for certain URLs?  Or would you rather that GUS were perhaps smart enough to try to figure that out by itself?
2020-07-02 11:00:22	natpen`	That could be interesting. I feel like the amount of complexity needed for GUS to do it purely algorithmically and consistently well would be higher than what I probably feel like introducing to the project. One other idea I recently came across was that site creators could create a zip of their site, then the crawler could just download that with one request, then unzip and process locally. It doesn't get at the "i
2020-07-02 11:00:22	natpen`	ncrementality" but incrementality is hard, and with this approach crawl time would scale linearly with the number of hosts, instead of the number of pages. So that I think could also work.
2020-07-02 11:01:10	solderpunk	Ah, I have definitely thought about that idea before, of having a well-known endpoint where one can fetch an archive of an entire capsule.
2020-07-02 11:01:22	solderpunk	And probably a second well-known endpoint where one can fetch the filesize of said archive. :)
2020-07-02 11:01:39	lukee	Who needs Content-Lenght? :)
2020-07-02 11:02:33	solderpunk	Well, the ability to fetch an entire site in one transaction, and then browse it locally, is most valuable to people with either very slow connections, or even more so people with intermittent connections.
2020-07-02 11:02:58	solderpunk	And they might appreciate it.
2020-07-02 11:02:58	lukee	The lawyers will never stand for downloading my whole site
2020-07-02 11:03:13	lukee	I'll have to get the CEO to agree too
2020-07-02 11:03:21	solderpunk	Actually, I'm curious...
2020-07-02 11:03:28	natpen`	Oh, that's a really interesting additional use case for the idea. I hadn't thought about that!
2020-07-02 11:04:02	⚡	solderpunk runs `du -chs /var/gemini` on gemini.circumlunar.space...
2020-07-02 11:04:21	lukee	Some sites might be a mixture of static and dynamic content - how should it work for them?
2020-07-02 11:04:24	solderpunk	500 MB?!?!
2020-07-02 11:05:17	lukee	I think sitemap.xml is perhaps more flexible
2020-07-02 11:05:30	solderpunk	Ah, the majority of it is that "calculator" thing.
2020-07-02 11:05:40	solderpunk	Yeah, for highly dynamic sites it certainly wouldn't work.
2020-07-02 11:06:05	lukee	you can replace your calculator with a link to gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/calc.cgi?0 if you like :)
2020-07-02 11:06:24	solderpunk	But for gemlogs, I think it's highly viable.
2020-07-02 11:06:39	solderpunk	My gopher phlog, which is over three years of writing, is 1.7 MB.
2020-07-02 11:06:54	solderpunk	And that's uncompressed!
2020-07-02 11:07:05	solderpunk	Offering content like that in a single archive seems super sensible to me.
2020-07-02 11:07:19	⚡	lukee rummages around in drawer for a floppy disk
2020-07-02 11:07:34	solderpunk	Haha, yes, it would definitely fit after a gzip.
2020-07-02 11:08:03	dkibi	does gus has any understanding of atom feeds? given how popular they are they could at least give a bit of an hint what needs earler rescrabing
2020-07-02 11:10:09	natpen`	It does not understand Atom currently. I've thought about dealing with that, but I felt like the easier solution would be just to invalidate and recrawl the dedicated feed pages who do understand Atom feeds (i.e., Capcom and Spacewalk).
2020-07-02 11:11:53	solderpunk	At least for as long as Geminispace stays small enough that "firehoses" like Capcom and Spacewalk are valuable. :)
2020-07-02 11:15:14	natpen`	true :) I hope it remains useful for a very long time. Refreshing Capcom in the mornings, and seeing what people have posted, is one of my favorite Gemini activities!
2020-07-02 11:20:10		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 11:24:05	solderpunk	Mine too! :)
2020-07-02 11:32:14		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 11:55:55	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 12:04:06	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 12:07:19		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 12:12:15		natpen` has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 12:37:10	~tiwesdaeg	hey solderpunk
2020-07-02 12:38:47	@xq	solderpunk: your sweet dream of self-hosted servers just crashed, at least with my ISP
2020-07-02 12:38:56	@xq	my "external" IP is now natted
2020-07-02 12:39:38	⚡	xq cries
2020-07-02 12:39:51	~tiwesdaeg	:(
2020-07-02 12:40:03	wgreenhouse	xq: o o f. can't even forward a port from their router/modem controls or whatever?
2020-07-02 12:40:10	@xq	yep
2020-07-02 12:40:16	@xq	i have a dyndns entry
2020-07-02 12:40:19	wgreenhouse	feckin
2020-07-02 12:40:25	@xq	doesn't work anymore
2020-07-02 12:40:26	wgreenhouse	arg
2020-07-02 12:40:37	@xq	yep
2020-07-02 12:40:55	~tiwesdaeg	I've lucked out with my isp
2020-07-02 12:41:32	~tiwesdaeg	the ip address doesn't even change, even if the connection is lost for a long period
2020-07-02 12:43:20	wgreenhouse	xq: there's always the as-yet-unexplored space of gemini-over-.onion :P
2020-07-02 12:44:40	~tiwesdaeg	it wasn't too hard to setup on gopher
2020-07-02 12:45:19	wgreenhouse	yeah I think it should be fine
2020-07-02 12:45:35	wgreenhouse	meant to put something last week, maybe this weekend
2020-07-02 12:47:25	@xq	wgreenhouse: i have a different solution
2020-07-02 12:47:29	@xq	which i need to add to kristall first :D
2020-07-02 12:47:38	@xq	but: gemini has first-class trivial proxying
2020-07-02 12:47:56	wgreenhouse	o.O
2020-07-02 12:48:04	@xq	and why not include that on my VPS which has IPv6
2020-07-02 12:48:12	@xq	so i just contact my server with any gemini request
2020-07-02 12:48:16	@xq	and it will redirect
2020-07-02 12:48:17	@xq	:D
2020-07-02 12:48:18	wgreenhouse	hah, nice.
2020-07-02 12:48:31	@xq	but i need to add client support for that
2020-07-02 12:48:45	@xq	so you can set up "always contact this host"
2020-07-02 12:48:50	wgreenhouse	when your ISP NATed you, they left you with a "real" globally addressable ipv6 at least?
2020-07-02 12:49:02	@xq	nope
2020-07-02 12:49:05	@xq	no IPv6
2020-07-02 12:49:08	@xq	at all
2020-07-02 12:49:15	@xq	not ingoing, not outgoing
2020-07-02 12:52:56	dkibi	xq: ah I remember some german isps doing that it's hell
2020-07-02 12:53:03	@xq	yes.
2020-07-02 12:53:06	@xq	Fuck Vodafone
2020-07-02 12:53:22	dkibi	your home is now a phone
2020-07-02 12:54:15	wgreenhouse	that's terrifying
2020-07-02 12:54:30	kensanata	Ugh.
2020-07-02 12:54:31	wgreenhouse	(re: <dkibi> your home is now a phone)
2020-07-02 12:54:49	@xq	<dkibi> your home is now a phone
2020-07-02 12:54:49	@xq	yes
2020-07-02 12:59:59	wgreenhouse	ironically, my tentative plan is to put my gemini stuff on a disused phone (v1 pixel running termux)
2020-07-02 13:32:44		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 13:32:49	▬▬▶	natpen` has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 13:33:45	▬▬▶	gboy-k has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 13:34:49		gboy-k has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-02 13:46:07		lel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 13:53:02	▬▬▶	peterbb_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 13:53:53		peterbb has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 13:53:53	ℹ 	peterbb_ is now known as peterbb
2020-07-02 14:02:59	solderpunk	Sorry to hear about it, xq!
2020-07-02 14:03:11	@xq	yeah, i'm pretty pissed ATM
2020-07-02 14:03:30	solderpunk	I am still hoping to experiment with Gemini on Yggdrasil one day.
2020-07-02 14:04:22	@xq	Yggdrasil?
2020-07-02 14:05:12	solderpunk	https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/about.html
2020-07-02 14:05:45	solderpunk	It's sort of a decentralised, P2P IPv6 network.
2020-07-02 14:06:01	solderpunk	Using a deprecated chunk of the IPv6 address space which is not routable on the public internet.
2020-07-02 14:06:13	solderpunk	You get an IPv6 address that is derived from an ed25519 public key.
2020-07-02 14:06:33	solderpunk	Which is kind of a neat way to sidestep the need for PKI.
2020-07-02 14:07:09	@xq	i wonder how performant this is
2020-07-02 14:07:55	solderpunk	No idea, I still haven't tried it myself, just read about it.
2020-07-02 14:08:25	solderpunk	But probably enough for text/gemini, I'd expect.
2020-07-02 14:08:42	@xq	hehe, yeah
2020-07-02 14:08:53	@xq	but tor/i2p has hellish latencies
2020-07-02 14:09:42	solderpunk	I don't know anything about i2p, but yggrdasil should be better than Tor at least.
2020-07-02 14:09:59	solderpunk	It's not trying to provide anonymity, so stuff is routed by the most direct known route.
2020-07-02 14:10:36	@xq	yeah, that's a nice property
2020-07-02 14:10:37	solderpunk	The whole goal of the project, as I understand it, is to experiment with fancy new ideas for routing.
2020-07-02 14:10:59	solderpunk	Which is all kind of over my head at this point.
2020-07-02 14:11:49	solderpunk	But it's nice that you can use it to host IPv6 stuff from home even if you can't do that the normal way.
2020-07-02 14:13:34	@xq	i wonder if that will work for me
2020-07-02 14:13:48	@xq	they somehow need to reach my device at the end
2020-07-02 14:14:14	solderpunk	Your home device can connect, via IPv4, to a public Yggdrasil node.
2020-07-02 14:14:24	solderpunk	Or several of them.
2020-07-02 14:14:55	solderpunk	And I think then you should be able to receive connections.
2020-07-02 14:18:21	@xq	hmmm
2020-07-02 14:18:23	@xq	interesting
2020-07-02 14:18:29	solderpunk	But from your ISP's perspective, all you're doing is connecting to a public IPv4 host, so it should "just work".
2020-07-02 14:18:36	dkibi	https://github.com/breadbee/breadbee this seems to a nice device to host a minimal gemini server (it's essentially an attempt on creating an alternative to those esp32 board that can run a regular os and which hopefully might get cheeply cloned in china (think bluepill))
2020-07-02 14:19:31	solderpunk	Nice!
2020-07-02 14:19:33	@xq	i love the picture
2020-07-02 14:19:36	@xq	:D
2020-07-02 14:19:45	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 14:19:53		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 14:24:19	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 14:24:48	kensanata	Oops, got disconnected as I tried to post. Hm.
2020-07-02 14:24:55	kensanata	What I was trying to post: Gah, made a bunch of changes to elpher in order to enable browsing multiple buffers; then I als had to make a bunch of changes to my gemini-write extension that allows me to use it to edit gemini-wiki... Now I feel lost in stack of changes and commits and branches and projects, yikes.
2020-07-02 14:25:37	acdw	i know that feeeling!
2020-07-02 14:33:53		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 14:34:02	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 15:18:37	makeworld	xq: That's like my nightmare, sorry man
2020-07-02 15:19:00	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq is out of my basement, so that would go away
2020-07-02 15:19:34	makeworld	solderpunk: Really cool to see Yggdrasil brought up here, I've played around with it and used it as a part of Toronto Mesh
2020-07-02 15:19:39	makeworld	Also CJDNS, but I prefer Ygg
2020-07-02 15:20:01	@xq	makeworld: yeah, i hate it too
2020-07-02 15:20:16	@xq	i have an alias-setup for the pi in my basement
2020-07-02 15:20:36	@xq	i could access my stuff from everywhere if i needed
2020-07-02 15:20:41	acdw	my ISP won't let me host anythign :(
2020-07-02 15:20:50	@xq	"turn on the pc? no problem, network connected power sockets"
2020-07-02 15:21:01	makeworld	solderpunk: The first Yggdrasil Gemini server already exists btw: https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/issues/26
2020-07-02 15:21:50	solderpunk	Oh, neat!
2020-07-02 15:23:14	makeworld	Yeah I was happily surprised to see that
2020-07-02 15:23:44	makeworld	Most clients should work out of the box with Ygg, which is great. Thank you OSI layers!
2020-07-02 15:25:03	@xq	neat
2020-07-02 15:25:34	makeworld	I haven't tested Amfora with it, I probably should
2020-07-02 15:25:42	makeworld	But I'd surprised if there was an issue
2020-07-02 15:26:40	solderpunk	Me too, it should be entirely invisible to the client.
2020-07-02 15:26:47	solderpunk	Assuming it supports IPv6, of course.
2020-07-02 15:26:50	@xq	hmm
2020-07-02 15:26:58	@xq	has anyone of you experience with linux and raw packet sending?
2020-07-02 15:27:08	makeworld	Not really no
2020-07-02 15:28:14	@xq	i searched google for like a five hours, didn't find anything
2020-07-02 15:28:21	@xq	now working with libpcap, i found AF_PACKET and found this:
2020-07-02 15:28:22	@xq	https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/packet.7.html
2020-07-02 15:28:24	@xq	\o/
2020-07-02 15:31:40	makeworld	solderpunk: I love the molly config and .molly files idea btw
2020-07-02 15:32:03	makeworld	The day before I was trying to bring it up with the Jetforce dev
2020-07-02 15:32:10	makeworld	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/issues/34
2020-07-02 15:33:48	solderpunk	Oh, coincidental timing!
2020-07-02 15:34:02	solderpunk	I have been meaning to add all this stuff for a long time, I'm so glad to finally have it out there.
2020-07-02 15:39:58	solderpunk	Hmm, only after reading Michael's comments there do I realise you can't configure Molly Brown to redirect to other domains.  Maybe I'm okay with that.
2020-07-02 15:40:17	kensanata	I thought about starting pages with #REDIRECT [[new page]] or something for redirects (which is how my web wiki does). This is so you can't redirect from a wiki page to an external page. But in the end I don't know whether that's a good limitation.
2020-07-02 15:40:31	kensanata	Heh
2020-07-02 15:41:56	kensanata	The web wiki also only redirects by one step. If the target redirects again, that isn't forwarded to the client, the idea being that you're on a wiki so you need to be able to go back to those pages and edit them somehow.
2020-07-02 15:42:58	kensanata	And I finally wrote an overview over all the stuff I've been doing. Yay me! 😀  https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-07-02_An_overview_over_my_Gemini_projects or gemini://alexschroeder.ch/2020-07-02_An_overview_over_my_Gemini_projects
2020-07-02 15:43:25		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 15:45:25	kensanata	Heh, port1965.eu is a cool domain name.
2020-07-02 15:46:33	solderpunk	Wow, you have been busy!
2020-07-02 15:47:13	kensanata	Yeah, my summer break started on Monday.
2020-07-02 15:47:16	kensanata	:D
2020-07-02 15:47:31	solderpunk	Aah, one week after mine. :)
2020-07-02 15:47:52	solderpunk	Which is why so much work on Molly Brown happened.
2020-07-02 15:48:21	makeworld	That's the reason I've been able to do all my Gemini stuff too :)
2020-07-02 15:50:08	solderpunk	Today I'm finally writing up some beginner-friendly introductory stuff to text/gemini syntax.
2020-07-02 15:50:21	solderpunk	And also started finally sketching out a gentle introduction to TLS certificates.
2020-07-02 15:50:42		mhj has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 15:53:00	dkibi	summer break? what's that xD
2020-07-02 15:54:04	kensanata	dkibi: My wife also shakes her head: "you're still at the laptop!?"
2020-07-02 15:54:38	makeworld	solderpunk: Nice! Did you see my thoughts I sent a while ago, on that TOFU report
2020-07-02 15:55:22	solderpunk	I think so?  All I remember now, though, is that you picked up on keying certificates against the port as well.
2020-07-02 15:56:39	makeworld	There was one other thing, using the hash of the SubjectPublicKeyInfo section of the cert, not just the hash of the whole thing
2020-07-02 15:56:56	makeworld	It's not really an obvious thing, so it was helpful to read
2020-07-02 15:57:10	makeworld	Idk if this applies to your TLS intro though
2020-07-02 15:57:23	solderpunk	Oh, right.  I'm still not sure I'm sold on that.
2020-07-02 15:57:40	solderpunk	It will, the title is actually "TLS, TOFU and all that jazz", so TOFU stuff belongs in there :)
2020-07-02 15:57:47	solderpunk	 But I'll cover TLS stuff first.
2020-07-02 15:58:02	makeworld	It seemed to make sense to me, bc it keeps the same key and everything, it just avoids raising an error if the signature method changes or something
2020-07-02 15:58:04	makeworld	Oh great!
2020-07-02 15:59:05	makeworld	Using the SPKI made sense to me, and I trust the report bc it seemed professional lol. It seemed like something would reduce false positives for TOFU cert errors
2020-07-02 15:59:25	makeworld	Although I think in most cases it doesn't really apply, since people change the whole cert
2020-07-02 16:00:20	solderpunk	Yeah, I still don't think that keeping the same key for longer than the lifespan of a cert makes much sense, at least in the context of a single self-signed cert.
2020-07-02 16:00:30	makeworld	It'd also be cool to see recommendations on TOFU UX/UI in that document, like how easy continuing past a TOFU issue should be, and what kind of error text should be displayed. Bc it's potentially a MITM attack, but most likely not
2020-07-02 16:00:45	makeworld	Yeah, I don't think many people are doing that
2020-07-02 16:01:10	makeworld	But I thought why not hash the smaller part of the cert, at worst it won't change much
2020-07-02 16:01:46	makeworld	That's another thing, are you recommending clients keep track of the expiry date too then?
2020-07-02 16:01:54	makeworld	Sorry I know I'm bringing up a lot at once lol
2020-07-02 16:02:09	@xq	if you get a solution, please notice me so i can implement that in Kristall :)
2020-07-02 16:03:52	solderpunk	What the heck...
2020-07-02 16:04:04	solderpunk	I just published the Gemtext tutorial stuff at gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-07-02 16:04:13	solderpunk	And was checking how it looked in AV-98.
2020-07-02 16:04:20	solderpunk	And I'm seeing TOFU warnings...
2020-07-02 16:05:03	solderpunk	Oh, right, duh, I'm still using Let's Encrypt here.
2020-07-02 16:05:21	solderpunk	"A different certificate has previously been seen 999 times.
2020-07-02 16:05:21	solderpunk	That certificate is still valid for: 29 days, 14:23:08.649315"
2020-07-02 16:05:33	solderpunk	The just less than 30 days of validity thing should have been the big hint.
2020-07-02 16:05:47	solderpunk	Spooked myself for a minute there :p
2020-07-02 16:06:22	solderpunk	Funky timing, too, as we were just talking about this.
2020-07-02 16:08:37	solderpunk	Let it be known that the new cert with SHA256 fingerprint c78730ad7b488ae5af16e635d5478bee3a109ff32f51a16e85e580640d6b6b2a is legit!
2020-07-02 16:09:31	solderpunk	Feedback on gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/gemtext.gmi and gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/cheatsheet.gmi very welcome.
2020-07-02 16:11:31	makeworld	Oh that warning you quoted is a good idea, counting how many times it's been seen and how long it was still valid for
2020-07-02 16:11:34	makeworld	I'm stealing that
2020-07-02 16:11:49	makeworld	Anyway I gtg now, but I will check these out after, thanks!
2020-07-02 16:12:53	solderpunk	Steal away!  Talk to you later.
2020-07-02 16:21:53		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-02 17:34:07		natpen` has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 18:01:37	makeworld	solderpunk: Both documents look great! Don't have any suggestions really
2020-07-02 18:23:00	makeworld	You should put them on HTTPS too
2020-07-02 18:57:22	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 19:00:14	makeworld	Alright, Amfora v1.2.0 released!
2020-07-02 19:00:15	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/releases/tag/v1.2.0
2020-07-02 19:00:45	makeworld	No major new features here, but many bug fixes and some smaller features like paging and opening links in a new tab
2020-07-02 19:08:40	makeworld	Uploading binaries now
2020-07-02 20:36:12	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 20:43:47	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-07-02 20:44:01	thewetcrab	Just a random thought that I had that I wanted to share before I forgot it .......
2020-07-02 20:45:07	thewetcrab	What kind of hardware can gemini be browsed on??  If Gemini is mostly text and meant to be lightweight, can we start looking at reducing the minimum hardware that can browse gemini,
2020-07-02 20:45:15	thewetcrab	does what I am saying make sense to anyone?
2020-07-02 20:46:15	rb100	thewetcrab: TLS is what limits how "minimum" you can go
2020-07-02 20:46:56	rb100	crypto requires non-negligible computing power
2020-07-02 20:48:12	thewetcrab	This isn't my area of expertise but would love to discuss it. What does TLS prevent? And how minimum is it possible to go with TLS?
2020-07-02 20:49:11	rb100	a 68030 CPU is barely usable, for example, for these tasks
2020-07-02 20:51:15	epoch_	 < solderpunk> https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/about.html
2020-07-02 20:51:34	thewetcrab	What about something like a Pentium II?
2020-07-02 20:52:00	epoch_	I've been on yggdrasil for a couple years now maybe.
2020-07-02 20:52:06	rb100	Pentium II has plenty of processing power, sure
2020-07-02 20:52:12	epoch_	so, there's already a gemini server on there
2020-07-02 20:53:04	thewetcrab	Can you give me a brief summary of what Yggdrasil  is / does?
2020-07-02 20:54:15	epoch_	IPv6 overlay network. onion routed I think.
2020-07-02 20:54:53	epoch_	like cjdns, but instead of only getting one IP you also get a range you can share with other computers on your LAN
2020-07-02 20:55:12	epoch_	so you don't have to setup the program on /everything/ you want on the network
2020-07-02 20:55:49	thewetcrab	ah right, that kind of thins is way outside of my knowledge or understanding,
2020-07-02 20:56:52	thewetcrab	rb100 so if the Pentium II has plenty of power what could we go down to, that is above a 68030 CPU?
2020-07-02 21:00:27	rb100	not sure, if i had to guestimate, you could get by on 68020, 386, etc.
2020-07-02 21:00:48	rb100	real problem is a TLS implementation for the chip, but i'd say a true 32-bit processor would be preferable
2020-07-02 21:01:17	rb100	or TLS implementation for the platform is probably more appopriate
2020-07-02 21:03:29	rb100	like you can get openssl 1.0.2 for MiNT on Atari computers all the way down to a 68000, and gemini browsing would "work"
2020-07-02 21:03:59	rb100	but while a 386 could also probably do it, good luck getting an OS for it supported by openssl
2020-07-02 21:08:07	thewetcrab	this is slightly outside my scope of knolege, certain processors and OSes don't work with TLS?
2020-07-02 21:09:23	rb100	no, i mean someone has to either write a TLS lib from scratch or port an existing one to the OS/hardware combo of your choice
2020-07-02 21:10:00	styan	There is a talk about running modern NetBSD on a VAX that mentions TLS handshakes timeing out, so if you get old enough hardware that would be something to worry about.
2020-07-02 21:10:24	thewetcrab	hmm so it must be a modern OS with a modern processor?
2020-07-02 21:11:03	rb100	styan: that might be my talk from 2019
2020-07-02 21:11:15	thewetcrab	I was thinking something along the lines of a micro controller with no OS, but could boot directly to and only to some kind of terminal / browser
2020-07-02 21:11:30	thewetcrab	really low powered,
2020-07-02 21:11:39	thewetcrab	perhaps even running on Lora network?
2020-07-02 21:11:40	rb100	thewetcrab: "must" is a strong word.  it depends how much work you want to put in.
2020-07-02 21:11:45	styan	rb100: Really?!  I loved it!
2020-07-02 21:12:10	thewetcrab	Perhaps not possible?
2020-07-02 21:12:18	rb100	styan: at bsdcan?  yeah, i brought my vaxstation with me
2020-07-02 21:12:40	thewetcrab	But that is why I come here to seek knowledge and to learn more about what is possible with this modern technology.
2020-07-02 21:13:06	rb100	thewetcrab: anything is possible.  like i said, conceptually, with  very little work, an Atari ST could browse gemini, albeit slowly
2020-07-02 21:15:16	thewetcrab	Well, I would't be able to make it. But I want to inspire others to create a single purpose device that is capable of browsing Gemini with no distractions.
2020-07-02 21:17:11	thewetcrab	I understand people here are fans of the 'Small Internet' and I think as we transitioned away from single use devices like the iPod Classic to multi use devices like the iPhone something special was lost.
2020-07-02 21:17:11	thewetcrab	I hope the gemini community feel the same way, and I hope I can inspire some to create (or co-create with me) a single use gemini hardware browser...... I don't know where I would begin with something like that on my own.
2020-07-02 21:17:36	styan	rb100: Sorry for the weird reaction, but I literally had the video open to check before I sent a message. :-)
2020-07-02 21:18:46	rb100	haha
2020-07-02 21:24:05	thewetcrab	Nice speaking I'm going to head off now :)
2020-07-02 21:24:35	thewetcrab	o/
2020-07-02 21:24:41		thewetcrab has left #gemini
2020-07-02 21:42:58		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-02 22:12:59		solderpunk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-02 22:13:57		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-03 00:37:17		peterbb has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-03 01:52:39		paper has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-03 07:41:02	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 08:43:55		Nalaph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-03 08:45:11	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 09:56:11	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 10:01:52	▬▬▶	natpen` has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 10:27:20	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 10:34:54	kensanata	CAPCOM why u no like my feed!? 😭
2020-07-03 11:55:07		natpen` has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-03 11:55:15	▬▬▶	natpen` has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 12:06:48		natpen` has left #gemini
2020-07-03 12:07:09	▬▬▶	natpen` has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 13:36:56	▬▬▶	lel_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 13:37:12		lel has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-03 13:43:10	▬▬▶	mink_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 13:52:58		mink_ has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-03 15:02:04	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 15:04:06	▬▬▶	mujrim has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 15:08:08	⚡	mujrim hi
2020-07-03 15:08:09		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-03 15:09:40		mujrim has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-03 15:17:22	natpen`	Hi :)
2020-07-03 15:18:15	makeworld	Hello!
2020-07-03 15:18:17	acdw	hey!
2020-07-03 15:18:22	acdw	sup sup
2020-07-03 15:18:24	makeworld	Seems like that user left though
2020-07-03 15:18:31	acdw	oh lol
2020-07-03 15:18:34	acdw	well hey everyone
2020-07-03 15:20:01	natpen`	Backlinks are now live on GUS if anyone wants to try them out!
2020-07-03 15:22:04	acdw	cool! What does that mean exactly?
2020-07-03 15:23:24	natpen`	It means you can now see which pages to link to other pages. So like, if you searched for "gus", then entered verbose mode, the first result is "gus.guru", and there's now a button to see all the pages in Geminispace that link to it.
2020-07-03 15:23:56	makeworld	Woah k lemme try
2020-07-03 15:24:47	natpen`	omg you already broke it makeworld
2020-07-03 15:25:22	makeworld	Haha what do you mean
2020-07-03 15:25:35	acdw	oh that's awesome
2020-07-03 15:25:44	makeworld	gemini://gus.guru/backlinks?gemini%3A//makeworld.gq/
2020-07-03 15:26:02	makeworld	That's empty, even thought it send 1 backlink, is that what you meant by breaking?
2020-07-03 15:26:09	natpen`	yeah... that one is messed up
2020-07-03 15:26:40	acdw	this is incredible!
2020-07-03 15:26:47	makeworld	Haha
2020-07-03 15:26:57	makeworld	But overall it's great!
2020-07-03 15:27:51	makeworld	You should really add GUS News to CAPCOM
2020-07-03 15:28:08	natpen`	Oh, I never thought of that! That's a great idea
2020-07-03 15:28:19	makeworld	It could just be an atom feed with one "post", and you just manually update the creation time everytime you make an update
2020-07-03 15:28:25	makeworld	Since there aren't separate files
2020-07-03 15:36:22	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 15:37:20	natpen`	okay, I think I fixed that bug!
2020-07-03 15:41:02	natpen`	I'll probably announce to the list later today, but please feel free to let me know if you notice anything misbehaving! This is getting released as part of a huge refactor (GUS got an entirely new database behind the scenes!), so I'm ever so slightly more than usual concerned about regressions :)
2020-07-03 16:02:22	makeworld	Oh cool
2020-07-03 16:02:31	makeworld	I'll lyk yeah
2020-07-03 16:02:38	makeworld	What changed with the database?
2020-07-03 16:02:48	makeworld	Is it still Whoosh?
2020-07-03 16:09:44	natpen`	still whoosh yes, but now there is begrudgingly also sqlite
2020-07-03 16:17:03		natpen` has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-03 16:17:12	▬▬▶	natpen` has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 16:17:35		natpen` has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-03 16:18:04	makeworld	Oh interesting
2020-07-03 16:54:06		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-03 17:12:57	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 17:47:16	epoch_	 < makeworld> solderpunk: The first Yggdrasil Gemini server already exists btw: https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/issues/26
2020-07-03 17:47:54	makeworld	Yes?
2020-07-03 17:48:23	epoch_	I don't have a date on my own server being "up" yet actaully
2020-07-03 17:48:38	epoch_	and even if mine did get up before that one, it wasn't "public"?
2020-07-03 17:49:01	makeworld	You mean you were running a Ygg server before that guy?
2020-07-03 17:50:00	epoch_	I've been running ygg since a couple years ago
2020-07-03 17:50:27	epoch_	and now that I think about it... I should probably update it.
2020-07-03 17:51:40	epoch_	I have some files in /var/gemini with a creation date before May 27th
2020-07-03 17:51:48	makeworld	Oh cool!
2020-07-03 17:52:06	makeworld	🏅
2020-07-03 17:55:01	makeworld	If anyone wants to test their client wrapping abilities, you can check out makeworld.gq/test.gmi
2020-07-03 17:56:43	makeworld	Or actually gemini://makeworld.gq/wrapping-test.gmi will stay more static, the other changes all the time bc it's my testing page
2020-07-03 18:01:04	makeworld	It tests things like wrapping heading, bullet, and link lines, which not all clients might do
2020-07-03 18:40:58	▬▬▶	drskrzyk_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 18:41:52	▬▬▶	drskrzyk__ has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 18:43:00		drskrzyk__ has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-03 18:43:35		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-03 18:44:09		drskrzyk_ has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-03 19:10:08	ine	geminaut consistenly fails wrapping preformatted text
2020-07-03 20:10:32	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 20:10:52	lukee	hi all
2020-07-03 20:11:04	lukee	makeworld: thanks for putting up another test page
2020-07-03 20:12:59	lukee	ine: I dont think GemiNaut is failing to wrap preformatted text: preformatted text is exactly that
2020-07-03 20:13:22	lukee	The spec says graphical clients should offer a scrolling mechanism in preference to wrapping
2020-07-03 20:13:25	lukee	"Graphical clients should use scrolling mechanisms to present preformatted text lines which are longer than the client viewport, in preference to wrapping."
2020-07-03 20:13:58	lukee	Otherwise things like ascii art is going to look very strange on smaller window sizes
2020-07-03 20:14:52	lukee	So actually my interpretation it is passing the wrap test :)
2020-07-03 20:17:01	ine	well, yeah, i guess it technically respects the specification, but not wrapping it makes for a very bad user experience
2020-07-03 20:17:21	ine	it doesn't wrap, but it doesn't scroll either. text just goes off-screen
2020-07-03 20:18:57	lukee	there is a scroll bar - for the page itself
2020-07-03 20:20:03	lukee	Maybe there is a way to add an optional scroll to the preformatted area if it needs one.
2020-07-03 20:21:17	lukee	I have toyed with a preformatted wrap option, but then some other pages look weird that expect no wrap
2020-07-03 20:21:49	lukee	if you think the spec is wrong, that is another conversation entirely
2020-07-03 20:24:20		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-03 20:35:52	makeworld	lukee: You definitely should not be wrapping preformatted blocks
2020-07-03 20:36:14	makeworld	But having a scroll bar for each block, and removing the page one would be a good idea imo
2020-07-03 20:36:23	makeworld	More obvious how to scroll sideways
2020-07-03 20:36:26	lukee	I've just been playing with this
2020-07-03 20:37:46	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/rEuSgC6
2020-07-03 20:38:01	lukee	is that a better UI for these long ones?
2020-07-03 20:38:41	lukee	ine - you can fix it yourself - go into the GMIConverters/themes folder
2020-07-03 20:39:02	ine	oh right, it has that themes thing!
2020-07-03 20:39:05	lukee	and for the theme you are using, on the pre.inline entry
2020-07-03 20:39:10	lukee	add overflow:auto
2020-07-03 20:39:27	ine	ill do it later, im having gpu issues. artifacts and such
2020-07-03 20:39:28	lukee	actually overflow:auto; (needs semicolon to terminate the entry)
2020-07-03 20:40:51	lukee	it is slightly nicer if you also add a little padding to provide space for the scrollbars to appear, e.g. padding-top:1.2em; and padding-bottom:1.2em;
2020-07-03 20:41:00	lukee	that is what that screenshot shows.
2020-07-03 20:41:17	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 20:41:49	kensanata	I keep trying to find new ways to explain how editing on a Gemini Wiki would work. Here's the latest one. gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1968/page/Writing
2020-07-03 20:43:29	lukee	Hi Alex - I'm also interested in how we could do simple wiki like applications or other self-editing in gemini
2020-07-03 20:44:34	lukee	where is the best overview of how titan works?
2020-07-03 20:45:00	makeworld	lukee: Looks great!
2020-07-03 20:45:07	wgreenhouse	lukee: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-titan/about/?h=main
2020-07-03 20:45:30	makeworld	And also I'm writing an email to the ML right now, I want Titan to be discussed more before clients add it
2020-07-03 20:45:44	lukee	yes definitely
2020-07-03 20:45:48	makeworld	Otherwise we will end up with lots of varying implementations with no official spec to point to yet
2020-07-03 20:46:12	lukee	it is a POC, but I think it could be improved
2020-07-03 20:46:13	makeworld	I'm happy that ken/alex has experimented with it, but I'm not even considering it for Amfora until more discussion happens
2020-07-03 20:46:21	kensanata	Maybe gemini://communitywiki.org:1966/Titan would be a good start?
2020-07-03 20:46:36	lukee	wgreenhouse: thanks for the link
2020-07-03 20:47:17	lukee	But how do you edit/contribute there?
2020-07-03 20:47:20	kensanata	makeworld: I'm happy to discuss. All I need to know is who'd like to discuss it.
2020-07-03 20:47:36	lukee	me for sure
2020-07-03 20:47:41	kensanata	Yay! :D
2020-07-03 20:48:01	lukee	might be worth putting out a call for client or server authors to see who would want to participate
2020-07-03 20:48:06	kensanata	lukee: If you don't know how to do it using Titan (hah!), I think using the web interface of the wiki would be best.
2020-07-03 20:48:34	kensanata	That's what I'm trying by posting here. All y'alls are my target audience.
2020-07-03 20:48:43	makeworld	kensanata
2020-07-03 20:48:45	makeworld	Whoops
2020-07-03 20:48:47	kensanata	https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan
2020-07-03 20:49:23	lukee	I know there are a few here who are interested, but not everyone monitors the channel
2020-07-03 20:49:29	kensanata	That's true.
2020-07-03 20:49:37	makeworld	kensanata: Could you outline your idea of Titan in a dedicated mailing list post, with links to your documentation etc. Like a request for comments, ask people what they think, and we can build this together. I think lots of people will be interested
2020-07-03 20:50:23	kensanata	makeworld: Apparently my mails cause issue for some people on the list due to spam protection or so, that's why I haven't posted anymore.
2020-07-03 20:51:19	kensanata	Let me check whether I can use my other mail account...
2020-07-03 20:51:29	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 20:51:38	makeworld	I'd appreciate if you could, idk
2020-07-03 20:53:04	acdw	i'm hoping to hack a bit on bollux this weekend
2020-07-03 20:53:10	acdw	how about yall
2020-07-03 20:53:22	makeworld	Amfora for sure, maybe gemget?
2020-07-03 20:54:29	makeworld	acdw: What are you doing with bollux?
2020-07-03 20:55:17	lukee	huh: just managed to make a trivial test edit to the titan page. Wasnt expecting it to be so easy.
2020-07-03 20:55:40	lukee	I guess this is how wikis should work when you dont have too many bad actors floating around
2020-07-03 20:55:42	acdw	aww yeah
2020-07-03 20:55:57	acdw	makeworld: I'm going to finally add certificate validation and hopefully TOFU
2020-07-03 20:56:05	acdw	stretch goal: client certs
2020-07-03 20:56:11	acdw	but I'm not holding my breath lol
2020-07-03 20:56:17	makeworld	Oh nice!
2020-07-03 20:56:29	acdw	lukee that's awesome. I want to try that this weekend too
2020-07-03 20:56:44	acdw	I have been so busy these past couple weekends that I haven't been able to chill and do gemini stuff
2020-07-03 20:56:59	makeworld	I don't remember how much TOFU convo you were around for, but make sure to store ports, expiry, and hash
2020-07-03 20:57:24	makeworld	I totally forget about ports with my initial Amfora implementation :P
2020-07-03 20:58:30	makeworld	kensanata: It's nice to see your blog on CAPCOM
2020-07-03 21:00:29	acdw	oh thanks ! That is really good to know. Just those three? Or more than those three? I was going to do ports, both dates (validbefore/after), hash as filename, fingerprint??
2020-07-03 21:00:31	acdw	idk
2020-07-03 21:00:44	makeworld	What is hash as filename?
2020-07-03 21:01:13	makeworld	I don't think you need to store both dates, just expiry. So that after the cert expires, you will accept any new cert
2020-07-03 21:01:26	acdw	the ... subject hash. It's openssl x509 -hash I think.
2020-07-03 21:01:46	acdw	I'm guessing you're meaning hash as a SHA-256 or whatever of the certificate
2020-07-03 21:01:53	acdw	in x509 lingo, that's a "fingerprint"
2020-07-03 21:01:59	makeworld	Hmm, I just hash the SubjectPublicKeyInfo in Amfora, maybe that's what this is? But hashing the entire cert also works
2020-07-03 21:02:17	acdw	but also expiry makes sense. b/c if it's before the valid date then it'll be kicked anyway
2020-07-03 21:02:29	acdw	I need to write this stuff down
2020-07-03 21:02:44	makeworld	I used to hash the entire cert, but just hashing the SPKI area means if they change non-crucial things like signature algo, there aren't any TOFU errors
2020-07-03 21:02:53	makeworld	Yeah, before data isn't really necessary
2020-07-03 21:03:42	acdw	ooh that's really good to know
2020-07-03 21:03:48	acdw	I hope I can do that with x509
2020-07-03 21:03:51	makeworld	You definitely don't need two hashes though. Either hash the entire binary cert, or confirm that the "subject hash" actually mean SPKI and use that
2020-07-03 21:03:56	makeworld	You should be able to
2020-07-03 21:04:21	makeworld	And yeah it was cool to figure out. I doubt it applies to many gemini servers, bc people will usually just change the entire cert, but why not?
2020-07-03 21:05:13	makeworld	Also I'm not sure what openssl does, but make sure you're hashing the binary version of the cert. Idk, I guess hashing the text could work too, it just might be less reliably if something changes order? I don't really know
2020-07-03 21:07:20	acdw	you are making the best of points rn
2020-07-03 21:09:58	lukee	makeworld: all this juicy info about implementing TOFU and certs etc - can you write a short gemini post about it?
2020-07-03 21:10:18	makeworld	Ooh haha, I didn't think of that
2020-07-03 21:10:21	makeworld	Thanks
2020-07-03 21:10:31	makeworld	Ok maybe I will, I'll write that down
2020-07-03 21:10:51	lukee	It would be great as a reference for us all to return to
2020-07-03 21:11:55	acdw	oh yes
2020-07-03 21:11:58	acdw	I'd be behind that
2020-07-03 21:12:15	acdw	I also want to write a beginning Gemini post that covers signing up for a pubnix, etc
2020-07-03 21:12:29	acdw	of course I'd link to solderpunk's new cheatsheet
2020-07-03 21:12:32	kensanata	makeworld: Thanks. :)
2020-07-03 21:13:27	kensanata	lukee: Yeah! :D
2020-07-03 21:13:54	kensanata	I think I managed to sign up using a really old email address... whoppee!
2020-07-03 21:15:24	lukee	great
2020-07-03 21:16:11	lukee	I tweaked the scroll/overflow behaviour some more - now only horizontall scrollbars are added when needed (screenshot above added both even though vertical scroll was not necessary)
2020-07-03 21:16:12	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/Y9AOUCB
2020-07-03 21:16:46	lukee	you can see the third item on that page, isnt wide enough to need a scrollbar yet
2020-07-03 21:17:08	lukee	this is definitely going in the next release :)
2020-07-03 21:17:32	⚡	lukee praises the gods of CSS
2020-07-03 21:17:51	acdw	nice!!
2020-07-03 21:17:54	acdw	looks awesome
2020-07-03 21:18:05	acdw	I think geminaut might be the *prettiest* client
2020-07-03 21:18:14	lukee	you're very kind
2020-07-03 21:18:19	lukee	but true :)
2020-07-03 21:18:36	acdw	hahaha
2020-07-03 21:18:55	acdw	I love how you just complimented me and yourself at the same time
2020-07-03 21:19:14	lukee	two for the price of one
2020-07-03 21:22:36	makeworld	Haha
2020-07-03 21:22:43	makeworld	Yeah that looks great
2020-07-03 21:22:55	makeworld	kensanata: Fingers crossed it worked! 🤞
2020-07-03 21:24:27	lukee	Its also about usability, so thanks to ine who brought it up earlier
2020-07-03 21:24:57	ine	OH HEY
2020-07-03 21:25:11	ine	this is exactly the behaviour i wanted to have <lukee> https://imgur.com/a/Y9AOUCB
2020-07-03 21:25:14	ine	love it
2020-07-03 21:25:46	companion_cube	what is this writte in ?!
2020-07-03 21:26:37	lukee	c#/WPF for main application
2020-07-03 21:26:56	lukee	UI is done in HTML/CSS (those evil languages - boo hiss!)
2020-07-03 21:27:16	lukee	conversion of GMI to HTML/CSS done in Rebol
2020-07-03 21:27:34	lukee	and some very useful utilities under the hood
2020-07-03 21:27:53	lukee	like gemget and a gopher CLI client
2020-07-03 21:28:32	companion_cube	the code snippets are rebol?
2020-07-03 21:28:35	lukee	The HTML rendering is very fast and lightweight - just uses a Microsoft system library to do it
2020-07-03 21:28:36	lukee	yes
2020-07-03 21:28:49	companion_cube	so weird :D
2020-07-03 21:28:53	companion_cube	first time I meet someone who uses that
2020-07-03 21:28:56	lukee	that page is for a seperate application
2020-07-03 21:29:16	lukee	yeah it is a bit niche
2020-07-03 21:29:47	lukee	But when you can GetStuffDone(TM) you get on with it?
2020-07-03 21:29:54	companion_cube	I guess :p
2020-07-03 21:30:00	companion_cube	like every language really
2020-07-03 21:30:45	lukee	Gemini: where the esoteric meets the retrospective and cryptographic
2020-07-03 21:30:52	acdw	haha yes
2020-07-03 21:31:43	lukee	All languages are equal, but some are more equal than others :)
2020-07-03 21:37:16		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-03 21:49:50	makeworld	Writing my TOFU blog post now btw, thanks for the idea guys
2020-07-03 21:49:54	makeworld	Oh acdw left
2020-07-03 21:50:07	lukee	great - I look forward to reading it
2020-07-03 22:03:45		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-03 22:08:58	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 22:13:16		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-03 22:18:12	kensanata	OK, wrote my mail. The longest mail I wrote in a long time...
2020-07-03 22:18:17	kensanata	And now it's time for bed!
2020-07-03 22:19:50	kensanata	And it showed up in my Junk folder. This is going to be great.
2020-07-03 22:24:49	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 22:27:28	@julienxx	I received it
2020-07-03 22:33:34	kensanata	Yay! 😅
2020-07-03 22:35:33	ine	<lukee> The HTML rendering is very fast and lightweight - just uses a Microsoft system library to do it
2020-07-03 22:35:35	ine	aka you pass it to internet explorer
2020-07-03 22:36:54	ine	is there any way to contribute to geminaut?
2020-07-03 22:38:02	ine	there are some minor things that bother me, like the "right click > view source" showing whatever but the gemini source. i'd like to submit patches, or at least understand better how a gemini client works
2020-07-03 22:39:32	ine	also, is this the right place to discuss a specific client? seems like this chan is more about the gemini specification rather than client impls. i dont want to go off topic or derail, idk
2020-07-03 22:41:45	makeworld	ine: You can contribute to Geminaut by forking the repo and editing the code, then creating a pull request
2020-07-03 22:42:05	makeworld	Also, the chat is fine for any gemini stuff, we talk about clients all the time
2020-07-03 22:43:07	ine	nice, didnt realize there was a public repo
2020-07-03 22:43:26	makeworld	Open source baybee
2020-07-03 22:43:45	makeworld	Geminispace doesn't do it any other way
2020-07-03 22:43:49	ine	hell yea
2020-07-03 22:44:15	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-03 22:44:37	lukee	hi again
2020-07-03 22:44:56	ine	aw man. i didnt realize you were not in the chan while talking lol
2020-07-03 22:45:37	lukee	no just joined again, had a look at the gemini log of the chat room, saw there was still some remarks about GemiNaut
2020-07-03 22:46:19	lukee	contributions welcomed if you want to get involved
2020-07-03 22:46:25	lukee	the repo is here
2020-07-03 22:46:26	lukee	https://github.com/LukeEmmet/GemiNaut
2020-07-03 22:46:42	lukee	Are you familiar with C#?
2020-07-03 22:47:24	lukee	yes there are a few minor things like view->source and the context menu to be improved upon
2020-07-03 22:47:39	lukee	the window level view->source works though
2020-07-03 22:48:17		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-03 22:59:26	ine	i dont know any C#. i paid more attention to the code and... i think ill stay away from geminaut for a bit.
2020-07-03 22:59:43	ine	while i like it, i strongly dislike how it pings wikimedia and gravatar on every page load.
2020-07-03 22:59:55	makeworld	It does??
2020-07-03 23:01:13	ine	all pages (on the default theme) load images off wikimedia and gravatar
2020-07-03 23:04:41	lukee	yes it gets the placemarker by sending an MD5 to gravatar. I have plans to reimplement that at some stage
2020-07-03 23:05:13	lukee	the wikipedia image is a simple round image mask to give a circular border to the placemarker
2020-07-03 23:05:21	lukee	that probably could be loaded locally
2020-07-03 23:05:57	lukee	Anyway, thats just the Fabric theme, the other themes dont do any such image requests
2020-07-03 23:09:35	lukee	If you want to make some contributions, these changes could be accelerated :)
2020-07-03 23:14:58	makeworld	Yeah definitely making that wiki image local would be good since it doesn't change
2020-07-03 23:21:07	lukee	its already in the repo, I just need to wire it up
2020-07-03 23:21:48	lukee	there is a c# library for generating the identicons too. On the list...
2020-07-03 23:46:29	makeworld	I think I'm pretty much done my TOFU post, finally
2020-07-03 23:46:39	makeworld	It became a lot bigger than I thought
2020-07-03 23:47:26	@xq	<makeworld> I think I'm pretty much done my TOFU post, finally
2020-07-03 23:47:28	@xq	neat!
2020-07-03 23:47:59	makeworld	Could you check it out before I post it?
2020-07-03 23:50:39	@xq	sure thing
2020-07-03 23:50:45	@xq	either right now or in ~10h
2020-07-03 23:50:47	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/test/
2020-07-03 23:50:57	makeworld	I'd prefer right now haha
2020-07-03 23:51:41	@xq	okay .D
2020-07-03 23:51:48	@xq	(1:51 am here)
2020-07-03 23:52:18	makeworld	Oh yikes, don't stay up for me lol
2020-07-03 23:52:43	@xq	:D
2020-07-03 23:52:51	@xq	i'll read it, then go to bed :D
2020-07-03 23:54:39	makeworld	Thanks!
2020-07-03 23:56:44	makeworld	I've made some formatting changes if you want to reload btw
2020-07-04 00:11:32	makeworld	lukee: It's posted!
2020-07-04 00:11:49	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-07-03-tofu-rec.gmi
2020-07-04 00:37:23	lukee	cool
2020-07-04 00:37:29	lukee	I'll take a look
2020-07-04 00:38:06	lukee	I've been doing some initial forays into generating identicons internally, not using gravatar
2020-07-04 00:38:20	lukee	here is makeworld's page, using the new scheme POC
2020-07-04 00:38:21	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/y1XiPSQ
2020-07-04 00:39:04	lukee	needs some more tweaking but should all be possible
2020-07-04 00:55:35		lel_ has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-04 00:57:18	lukee	makeworld: that looks like a really practical walkthrough of some of the main issues of implementation. Definitely one to bookmark for later!
2020-07-04 00:57:43	lukee	I'm turning in for the night. Quite late here... Catch up soon...
2020-07-04 00:58:55		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 01:22:29	styan	I finally figured out decent text wrapping and justification, soon I may be able to render text/gemini.  :-)
2020-07-04 01:27:49	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 01:41:14		krjst has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 01:41:25	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 02:45:55	makeworld	styan: Nice! Can you pass the wrapping torture tests?
2020-07-04 02:54:44	styan	makeworld: I literally just have softwrapping text :-)
2020-07-04 03:49:03	makeworld	Right but that's what those tests are for
2020-07-04 03:49:17	makeworld	Anyway I get ya, keep doing what you're doing :)
2020-07-04 03:49:27	makeworld	What will this rendering be for in the end?
2020-07-04 03:56:55	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 03:57:07		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 04:11:29	styan	makeworld: Gemini, of course :-)
2020-07-04 04:14:53	wgreenhouse	makeworld: what is considered the correct result for the long header/title lines?
2020-07-04 04:33:21	styan	makeworld: I just need to add styling/scrolling/scrollbar/context-menu/snarfing/pasting/highlighting/plumbing/etc.  Also, I wonder if there is any right-to-left text handling in plan9port?  screenshots: https://ttm.sh/QzJ.png (left-align) & https://ttm.sh/Qzo.png (justified)
2020-07-04 04:47:07	wgreenhouse	elpher kind of accidentally has really good TOFU behavior
2020-07-04 04:47:20	wgreenhouse	because emacs's NSM does
2020-07-04 07:13:27	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 10:19:48	▬▬▶	natpen` has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 10:56:04	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 10:58:26	kensanata	makeworld: I just read your tofu post. Good to have a checklist (even though I don't actually do Gemini clients). As for the reaction to changed certificates, as a user I'm often stumped on what to do. What can you reasonably do? Even a reminder of what would be the correct procedure would be nice.
2020-07-04 11:00:11	kensanata	makeworld: "If you need to make absolutely sure that you're not being snooped upon, you should compare the fingerprint below with a publication elsewhere. Obviously not on the site itself, since that's now under suspicion. Hopefully the owner has published the fingerprint in email signatures, source repositories, on the web, on social media, etc. Find it, check it, do it."
2020-07-04 11:00:30	kensanata	makeworld: Something like that in any case. Except more polished. :)
2020-07-04 11:50:22	natpen`	Okay, I found one more bug with GUS' backlinks yesterday (thank you to everyone who tested it out!!), but that's been fixed (I was undercounting backlinks due to trailing slash issues). I just more formally accounced backlinks to the list!
2020-07-04 11:50:43	natpen`	announced*
2020-07-04 11:50:46	natpen`	:)
2020-07-04 12:06:24	kensanata	This is going to be interesting.
2020-07-04 12:07:59	natpen`	Interesting, as in, "vehement opposition"? :P
2020-07-04 12:08:49	kensanata	Haha, well, it could potentially be abused perhaps, I don't know.
2020-07-04 12:08:57	kensanata	I'm more interested in other functionality, though.
2020-07-04 12:09:08	login	funny thing is, non-repudiability is necessarily tied to loss of privacy.
2020-07-04 12:09:45	login	How can there be non-repudiability only between the two people who communicated, without any third-party knowing it too.
2020-07-04 12:09:45	kensanata	Like, could I write a bot that searches for backlinks any Gemini post on my site and build a feed from that, creating a a page on my blog linking to all the things that link to my blog?
2020-07-04 12:09:53	kensanata	Like https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki?action=refer for example.
2020-07-04 12:10:11	login	well
2020-07-04 12:10:12	kensanata	That link of mine uses referrer tracking to discover links to my blog.
2020-07-04 12:10:22	login	are you alex?
2020-07-04 12:10:25	kensanata	YEs
2020-07-04 12:10:30	login	alright
2020-07-04 12:10:50	login	does gemini have referrers?
2020-07-04 12:11:05	kensanata	No it does not. But now we have GUS backlinks. :D
2020-07-04 12:11:42	natpen`	I'm also worried about potential for creating perverse incentives in Geminispace, or ways to abuse the functionality that I'm not thinking of
2020-07-04 12:12:18	natpen`	kensanata: yes, I think you could definitely do that with this functionality
2020-07-04 12:13:22	natpen`	it doen't affect search result ranking, so that's one small bit of defense. search results are ranked based on content alone. so there's no incentive to link spam.
2020-07-04 12:20:29	kensanata	natpen`: Here's another thing I've been wondering about GUS, independent of backlinks: old pages, current pages. I wonder about this because on my own blog, I sometimes have the problem that I don't care for old page results and so I changed the order in which pages are searched to start with newer pages. As Gemini has no metadata to take "age" into account, don't you think we will eventually have the same problem?
2020-07-04 12:24:34	kensanata	(I'm going to be away from the keyboard every now and then as I ought be packing a suitcase...)
2020-07-04 12:27:25	natpen`	kensanata: that's a good question! I'm not sure. I feel like it might depend on the exact search to some extent - some content is more "timeless" than other content, I think. It's definitely difficult to distinguish though, so I don't have a great solution. And I also worry that giving across-the-board ranking bonus to newer content would create an incentive structure to just create lots of new stuff, if you wanted
2020-07-04 12:27:25	natpen`	to rank highly on GUS. Whereas, in the current model, the incentive structure is much closer to "simply write good, relevant content."
2020-07-04 12:28:31	natpen`	GUS does have the notion of "first seen" for URLs, so this could be a future area of experimentation, but currently it does nothing with that data point
2020-07-04 12:29:17	natpen`	Are you going on an exciting summer vacation?? :)
2020-07-04 12:43:06	kensanata	Heh, not really. We've had a big trip in winter so now we're just going to spend a week in the Swiss mountains.
2020-07-04 13:06:15	kensanata	natpen`: I've noticed something on GUS; if I search for "wikipedia", I get a lot of links from my blog, but many of them are basically empty pages. Probaly my fault because a link like wikipedia:foo should probably link to the actual wikipedia page instead of linking to the empty page on my blog. It does point to a problem in the relevance algorithm, though. Those empty pages are definitely not good targets.
2020-07-04 13:06:28	natpen`	That sounds delightful - geniess es!
2020-07-04 13:07:21	kensanata	Danke
2020-07-04 13:08:59	natpen`	kensanata: that's a good point... it's basically a shortcoming of "raw" TF-IDF, which is the type of ranking GUS currently does. It would be nice at some point to improve that, but I'm still trying to figure out the best way to do so...
2020-07-04 13:10:39	natpen`	It's like, I could give a bonus to longer content pages, which would solve that, but then that would hurt the ranking of content-scarce home pages, which would be bad, because I think those should rightfully rank highly when relevant
2020-07-04 13:12:29	natpen`	kensanata: do you think "wikipedia:foo" pages should be ignored by the crawl, as a fix to this specific issue? I'm not sure I understand exactly what they represent
2020-07-04 13:26:31		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 13:27:09		natpen` has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 13:27:32	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 14:04:25	@xq	oh no
2020-07-04 14:04:31	@xq	drew appeared on the ML :D
2020-07-04 14:06:34	dkibi	I tend to like drews blog, but that mail is a facepalm
2020-07-04 14:10:39	@xq	i just responded with "we already discussed this, please see archives"
2020-07-04 14:15:29	dkibi	oh btw. one thing that is logical, but suprising at first is that the links from about:favourite are cross protocol links
2020-07-04 14:16:36	@xq	yep :D
2020-07-04 14:17:05	@xq	which will show you instantly what protocol this favourite is on, even if you renamed it
2020-07-04 14:19:04	~tiwesdaeg	does anyone else just browse through the GUS know hosts list looking for new sites?
2020-07-04 14:20:01	@xq	i should do that some time :D
2020-07-04 14:21:02	gernot	Also just BTW, should about:favourite be about:favorite?  Everything else in the app seems to be AE.
2020-07-04 14:23:04	@xq	:D
2020-07-04 14:24:05	companion_cube	ahah drew
2020-07-04 14:25:02	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 14:57:47	makeworld	xq: I'm responding now to him, bc I think he doesn't know about TOFU
2020-07-04 15:01:31	@xq	yeah i had the same impression
2020-07-04 15:10:21	makeworld	I've updated my TOFU post to include a screenshot of what Deedum does
2020-07-04 15:28:43		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-04 15:50:01	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 16:17:39	makeworld	acdw: Hey!
2020-07-04 16:18:01	acdw	hey makeworld, what is up!!?
2020-07-04 16:18:06	makeworld	l made that TOFU post that you asked about, idk if you saw
2020-07-04 16:18:25	acdw	I did! Thank you so much!! i'm reading it now
2020-07-04 16:18:27	makeworld	It was a great idea thanks! It helped me realize a thing or two about my own implementations
2020-07-04 16:18:27	acdw	it'
2020-07-04 16:18:29	acdw	s very usefule
2020-07-04 16:18:32	makeworld	:D
2020-07-04 16:18:41	makeworld	Glad to hear it!
2020-07-04 16:19:13	acdw	loving the "it's not perfectly secure, but it's better than nothing"
2020-07-04 16:19:29	acdw	it's how I think of locking your door -- if someone *really* wants to break in, they will
2020-07-04 16:19:37	acdw	but most of the time, bad actors are just jiggling handles
2020-07-04 16:19:49	makeworld	Yeah, that's a good analogy
2020-07-04 16:19:58	acdw	:)
2020-07-04 16:20:41	acdw	quick q: how do you name the files? I was going to do the hash of the servername, but I realize that I can just do the authority
2020-07-04 16:20:49	acdw	b/c it's by host, right?
2020-07-04 16:21:58	acdw	oh and thank you so much for the walkthrough
2020-07-04 16:22:04	makeworld	I have them all in one file, but basically I use the domain and port as the key, and the hash of the SPKI as the value. And then I have a separate key that stores the expiry for each domain and port
2020-07-04 16:22:08	makeworld	You're welcome!
2020-07-04 16:22:34	acdw	oh right, like normal people you probably have a database.
2020-07-04 16:22:44	acdw	i was going to put them in a folder since I'm using bash
2020-07-04 16:22:52	makeworld	So you could use the host (domain & port) for each file name if you want
2020-07-04 16:23:02	makeworld	Maybe put it through base32 to make it filename safe?
2020-07-04 16:23:02	acdw	that is a good idea  & probably what i'll do
2020-07-04 16:23:12	acdw	hmmmm right b/c windows is stupid
2020-07-04 16:23:26	makeworld	I actually am not using a database lol, I'm just abusing a config file
2020-07-04 16:23:36	acdw	well --- i'll have to look at allowable characters in url specification and i might be okay
2020-07-04 16:23:37	makeworld	I should probably not do that...
2020-07-04 16:23:44	acdw	lol no you absolutely should
2020-07-04 16:23:49	makeworld	Well it's not really about the URL
2020-07-04 16:23:50	acdw	I love abusing things
2020-07-04 16:24:02	makeworld	It's just domain/IP and port. So the bad character you'll have is the colon
2020-07-04 16:24:03	acdw	shit not people though
2020-07-04 16:24:19	acdw	oh yes. .. I could replace the colon with say a dot or underscore tho
2020-07-04 16:24:36	acdw	since i'll probably pull it out anyway
2020-07-04 16:24:54	makeworld	You shouldn't use a dot bc domains already have that
2020-07-04 16:25:01	acdw	oh right haha
2020-07-04 16:25:05	makeworld	But maybe an underscore is fine
2020-07-04 16:25:22	acdw	hm . domains might be able to have underscores
2020-07-04 16:25:29	acdw	i'll have to check the speck
2020-07-04 16:25:45	acdw	dang windows not allowing colons in filenames - what is their deal
2020-07-04 16:25:52	makeworld	My bookmarks "database" is even worse lol. The base32 encoding of the URL is the key, and the bookmark name is the value haha
2020-07-04 16:25:55	makeworld	Yeah lol
2020-07-04 16:26:06	acdw	oh awesome haha
2020-07-04 16:26:46	acdw	omg I could use a space to separate host and port
2020-07-04 16:27:04	acdw	it would so work but be so ugly
2020-07-04 16:27:15	makeworld	Haha sounds good!
2020-07-04 16:31:37	makeworld	Hash on the first line, and expiry on the next one?
2020-07-04 16:32:38	acdw	yeah probs
2020-07-04 16:38:35		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 17:21:59	login	makeworld: that is a funny database
2020-07-04 17:22:16	login	acdw: use percentage encoding of a colon
2020-07-04 17:22:22	makeworld	Don't tell anyone or I'll lose my Github stars!
2020-07-04 17:22:30	login	stars cannot be taken away right?
2020-07-04 17:22:58	makeworld	You can just click Unstar
2020-07-04 17:23:03	login	ah
2020-07-04 17:23:07	makeworld	But I was just kidding around :)
2020-07-04 17:23:35	makeworld	Anyway I just did the database like that so I can use the same library I use for configuration
2020-07-04 17:24:18	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: I also try to visit random hosts on that list every now and then!
2020-07-04 17:25:26	makeworld	Me too
2020-07-04 17:27:35	kensanata	These days, I mostly learning the price to pay of a configurable wiki engine. After about 17 years, I've accumulated a bazillion ways to format my text. Getting it back into a simpler format like Gemini is testing my patience.
2020-07-04 17:27:45	kensanata	Today: shortcuts for Wikipedia links.
2020-07-04 17:28:01	makeworld	Sounds like a tough task
2020-07-04 17:28:21	makeworld	Maybe time to brush up on regex? Sounds like it's solvable with a lot of regex substitution
2020-07-04 17:28:42	makeworld	If you don't jump out a window first
2020-07-04 17:28:45	kensanata	Yeah. I'm the regex guy at our company. So it's just so... tiresome.
2020-07-04 17:28:58	makeworld	Oh haha
2020-07-04 17:28:59	kensanata	Stuff like this: https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki?action=browse;diff=2;id=Comments_on_2006-07-13_Emulator_Joy_with_Donkey_Kong_Country
2020-07-04 17:29:35	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-07-04 17:29:59	kensanata	Adding those underscores doesn't actually work that well. So I'm doing \[\[Wikipedia:(\S+?)\]\], \[\[Wikipedia:(\S+?)\s(\S+?)\]\], \[\[Wikipedia:(\S+?)\s(\S+?)\s(\S+?)\]\], etc. And it's making my hair turn grey.
2020-07-04 17:30:19	kensanata	And then I discover that for a while I also used -> foo bar (en) to link to the English Wikipedia.
2020-07-04 17:30:26	kensanata	Oh, and DeutscheWikipedia.
2020-07-04 17:30:35	makeworld	I'm not going to try to understand that lol
2020-07-04 17:30:41	kensanata	Oh, and actually -> foo bar (.+) for any language.
2020-07-04 17:30:42	makeworld	Oh wow
2020-07-04 17:30:51	kensanata	Oh, but except for g, since g links to Google searches.
2020-07-04 17:30:56	kensanata	WTF was I thinking!!!!!!!!!!
2020-07-04 17:30:59	makeworld	Haha
2020-07-04 17:31:11	makeworld	Markdown wasn't enough huh
2020-07-04 17:31:31	makeworld	Even pandoc can't help you here...
2020-07-04 17:32:05	kensanata	Nope. I don't know how old it is? My blog started in 2003, with UseMod, the precursor to MediaWiki. I don't think we had Wikipedia and blogs at the time? I'd have to look back at stuff like A List Apart and Movable Type...
2020-07-04 17:32:23	makeworld	Oh damn
2020-07-04 17:32:26	makeworld	Ok, gtg
2020-07-04 17:32:28	⚡	makeworld afk
2020-07-04 17:32:31	kensanata	So it was UseMod format. Then I went to Wikimania and decided to add WikiCreole.
2020-07-04 17:32:45	kensanata	And then I was posting a lot on forums, so I added bbCode because why not.
2020-07-04 17:32:50	kensanata	CU
2020-07-04 18:23:59	▬▬▶	audiodude has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 18:24:50	drskrzyk	kensanata: you probably had livejournal available - I was on LJ going back to 2000-2001 or so
2020-07-04 18:26:19	drskrzyk	Unless they had it country locked. They actually created memcached to solve some of their scaling problems and engineered a bunch of good stuff. I think the company associated with movable type bought them and they're dreamwidth now
2020-07-04 18:41:50	drskrzyk	completely minor accomplishment but I got molly brown running on my fresh new rpi4 install last night. Getting the pi just right was way harder than molly brown, actually
2020-07-04 18:42:55	drskrzyk	but it's 64 bit headless with encrypted / - tres bein. With everything running I'm hovering around 250m mem usage, so I'm trying to figure out what to do with the other 3.5g or so.
2020-07-04 18:52:12	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 18:54:09	▬▬▶	prisonpotato has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 18:55:23	lukee	drskrzyk: I'm running Molly Brown on a Pi here as my testing machine
2020-07-04 18:55:48	drskrzyk	It was a fun project for sure.
2020-07-04 18:56:50	lukee	I'm running on an old Pi model B I got as a present. Never knew what to do with it. But now it is a Gemini playground.
2020-07-04 18:57:00	lukee	A bit slow. Probably much faster on a Pi4
2020-07-04 18:58:45	▬▬▶	sz33psz has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 18:59:07		sz33psz has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 19:01:14	▬▬▶	sz33psz has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 19:07:55		sz33psz has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 19:12:55	drskrzyk	it's kind of ridic :P I'd repurposed it from being what I'd used as a primary workstation for a while. "Workstation" meaning screwing around on the internet, reading mail, and downloading stuff
2020-07-04 19:13:04	drskrzyk	not like, curing cancer or breaking hashes
2020-07-04 19:23:40	lukee	well these things are sort of disposable toys that are almost good enough to do real stuff
2020-07-04 19:38:05	acdw	login: that's a good idea, thanks
2020-07-04 19:38:11	acdw	also sorry i didn't /away
2020-07-04 19:38:14	acdw	i was gone for a while
2020-07-04 19:41:11	dkibi	so has gemini hiting hacker news again had a huge impact?
2020-07-04 19:41:18	dkibi	in activity?
2020-07-04 19:43:19	dkibi	the "no inline images" discussino amuses me: is it really so hard for people to imagine that people might want to have terminal clients as first class citizens?
2020-07-04 19:43:44	yeti	sixels?
2020-07-04 19:43:50	yeti	:-Þ
2020-07-04 19:44:31	yeti	everyone has to live without images because the gemini users want to be different at all cost?
2020-07-04 19:44:32	dkibi	:P
2020-07-04 19:45:18	yeti	wasnt there a comment suggesting that gemini's primary goal is to be different?
2020-07-04 19:45:31	yeti	browsers were meant to be inclusive...
2020-07-04 19:45:41	yeti	lots of protocols in a shared frontend
2020-07-04 19:45:46	dkibi	I mean: it's sady that terminals are an array of character cells with some color, but that's the world we live in and a lot of people really like this user interface.
2020-07-04 19:46:07	yeti	I spend 95% or more of my day in xterms
2020-07-04 19:46:13	dkibi	don't know I didn't read all the comments, just saw it this morning and the inline image thing was the top comment then
2020-07-04 19:46:19	yeti	but I write stuff that needs images
2020-07-04 19:46:32	yeti	and links
2020-07-04 19:47:28	dkibi	I have 4 non terminals open right now and one is zathura (i.e. nothing but a pdf page) vs. 12 terminals ^^
2020-07-04 19:48:17	yeti	I'd count the shells... not the xterms... and that's probably ~50 here
2020-07-04 19:48:36	acdw	ooh thanks for letting me know yn has discussion on gemin
2020-07-04 19:48:42	acdw	s/gemin/gemini
2020-07-04 19:48:56	acdw	I was looking for an excuse to not start folding laundry
2020-07-04 19:49:02	yeti	I really prefer the terminal but even they can do graphics today
2020-07-04 19:49:30	dkibi	your poor laundry xD
2020-07-04 19:49:30	yeti	ok... yesterday too :-P   vt3xy
2020-07-04 19:50:22	dkibi	I just switched terminal emulator to get emojis xD
2020-07-04 19:50:41	acdw	oh yeah I have to install a patched xfontrenderer thing so st doesn't crash with some emojis
2020-07-04 19:50:47	acdw	or... maybe just use urxvt
2020-07-04 19:51:13	dkibi	I used urxvt and didn't find out it emoijs should work or not or if it's just some patched version
2020-07-04 19:51:28	acdw	did emojis work on urxvt?
2020-07-04 19:51:33	dkibi	now I use kitty, there are some shortcommings but it seems alright enough
2020-07-04 19:51:34	dkibi	not for mw
2020-07-04 19:51:35	dkibi	me
2020-07-04 19:51:40	acdw	shoot
2020-07-04 19:51:51	acdw	kitty was cool yes, I quit using it b/c it wasn't using the font i wanted
2020-07-04 19:51:59	acdw	but it's not a font i even remember now
2020-07-04 19:52:05	acdw	i did like kitty a lot
2020-07-04 19:53:13	dkibi	it can't do subpixel aa and I used a super narrow font that looked quite bad without that. but now I switched font too and I think that super narrow one might have been a bad decicion
2020-07-04 19:53:26	dkibi	regarding readability
2020-07-04 19:53:39	acdw	yeah i'm using Iosevka I think
2020-07-04 19:54:22	dkibi	also ibus is not well supported, but rfc1345 works, Hangul doesn't, but I have never been using that in the terminal anyway
2020-07-04 19:54:56	dkibi	I used input mono condensed
2020-07-04 19:55:08	dkibi	…
2020-07-04 19:55:19	acdw	good to know!
2020-07-04 19:55:31	acdw	I don't thyink I'm going to use any of that stuff, slash it's not supported in st either
2020-07-04 19:57:28	dkibi	I picked rfc1345 at some point to input unicode stuff (for no particular reason), but since I memorized some of the shorthands I want to stick with it
2020-07-04 20:01:03	acdw	ah
2020-07-04 20:01:24		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 20:01:42	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 20:02:03		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 20:04:38	yeti	hihi... looks like my dumbest 1-line-client can do graphics
2020-07-04 20:04:40	yeti	.-Þ
2020-07-04 20:06:13	acdw	nice yeti!
2020-07-04 20:06:17	acdw	paste it here?
2020-07-04 20:06:39	yeti	run in an xterm
2020-07-04 20:06:45	yeti	with sixels enabled
2020-07-04 20:06:47	yeti	{ sleep 1; printf "gemini://envs.net/~yeti/marvin.gmi\r\n" ; } | gnutls-cli --insecure envs.net:1965 | awk '/^[0-9][0-9] .+/{hot=1}hot'
2020-07-04 20:09:04	yeti	http://yeti.freeshell.org/tmp/20200704-200717-UTC__gemini_with_graphics.png
2020-07-04 20:09:43	acdw	oh nice :)
2020-07-04 20:14:10	yeti	I need to think a bit or even a long more over it
2020-07-04 20:15:07	yeti	if there is one grmini browser that can do graphics, there woll be lots of them soon
2020-07-04 20:15:14	acdw	that's true
2020-07-04 20:15:44	yeti	should be doable in plain bash
2020-07-04 20:16:02	yeti	except for password stuff for games and such
2020-07-04 20:16:12	yeti	havent grok'ed that yet
2020-07-04 20:16:24	acdw	oh for sure! -- honestly even password stuff can be done with read -s
2020-07-04 20:16:41	acdw	I think that's a more recent bash feature
2020-07-04 20:17:58	lukee	I saw above that gemini hit HN again today
2020-07-04 20:18:02	dkibi	I'm not sure about that, I got the impression so far that many people build tools within their own sets of goals/values and don't just incoperate features because they are doable
2020-07-04 20:18:21	yeti	I need a market pressure
2020-07-04 20:18:23	yeti	:-Þ
2020-07-04 20:18:29	lukee	That explains why downloads went up by an order of magnitude today
2020-07-04 20:18:39	lukee	I was wondering what happened
2020-07-04 20:18:43	acdw	haha yep
2020-07-04 20:19:14	yeti	I need a sixel demo without possibly copyrighted image...
2020-07-04 20:19:14	dkibi	e.g. castor can do color escape sequences, but xq will not implement that in kristall
2020-07-04 20:19:21	lukee	did HN decide it is a goodthing(tm)?
2020-07-04 20:19:47	lukee	ANSI codes wont go into GemiNaut either...
2020-07-04 20:19:57	yeti	too late
2020-07-04 20:20:07	yeti	it is doable, it will be done
2020-07-04 20:20:08	dkibi	no HN didn't like it
2020-07-04 20:20:27	@xq	dkibi: i will implement it /maybe/ :D
2020-07-04 20:20:31	dkibi	oh
2020-07-04 20:20:32	@tomasino	Third time's the charm I guess
2020-07-04 20:20:34	dkibi	:P
2020-07-04 20:20:35	lukee	ANSI codes are a terminal thing, not universal text thing
2020-07-04 20:20:50	dkibi	xq: well I will not use it!
2020-07-04 20:21:05	yeti	and thats the thing with graphics...
2020-07-04 20:21:10	yeti	you dont have to use it
2020-07-04 20:21:14	yeti	but let it exist
2020-07-04 20:21:22	dkibi	(that said my secret unannounced project should probably have no problem with them ^^)
2020-07-04 20:21:22	lukee	they assume a specific type of implementation that is very particular
2020-07-04 20:21:28	acdw	yeah I like ANSI codes for fun with  a few things, but as a whole it's not really portable
2020-07-04 20:21:30	@xq	dkibi: it will be optional :D
2020-07-04 20:21:34	@xq	as all "fancy" features
2020-07-04 20:21:48	@xq	lukee: true, but having a portable way of specifying text color is rather cool imho
2020-07-04 20:21:51	@xq	especially for art stuff
2020-07-04 20:21:53	@xq	but!
2020-07-04 20:22:00	yeti	pure text gemini has no future except for a separatist community
2020-07-04 20:22:03	@xq	we could just use "text/x-ansi" for that
2020-07-04 20:22:15	dkibi	well some sites that color their logo look alright with the escape sequences rendered as plain text so it's fine
2020-07-04 20:22:19	@xq	we don't need to extend text/gemini to the max
2020-07-04 20:22:25	@xq	we can just use multiple file types
2020-07-04 20:22:30	@tomasino	Use another mime and enjoy
2020-07-04 20:22:39	lukee	urgh
2020-07-04 20:22:48	@tomasino	text/gemini doesn't inline resources
2020-07-04 20:23:12	lukee	yes serve as text/x-ansi seems sensible
2020-07-04 20:23:16	acdw	i like this one comment on hn that's like "Gemini's proponents are trying to push a protocol" ... like, no we're not buddy
2020-07-04 20:23:21	acdw	at least I'm not
2020-07-04 20:23:23	acdw	I just think it's neat
2020-07-04 20:24:11	@tomasino	Don't sweat HN. The first two times Gemini hit the front page of bright a bunch of positivity and excitement. There's no rhyme or reason to it
2020-07-04 20:24:25	@tomasino	It brought*
2020-07-04 20:24:34	acdw	yep, it's funny b/c they seem so level-headed much of the time and then it's like, oh yeah, it's a forum
2020-07-04 20:24:39	acdw	filled with techbros
2020-07-04 20:24:48	acdw	so it's gonna be techbro-ey sometimes
2020-07-04 20:24:48	dkibi	"this will never catch on", well it already has to a degree such that it's a nice thing
2020-07-04 20:24:57	lukee	favourite quote: "This is like pushing for stone cart wheels when spoked wheels are already available."
2020-07-04 20:25:03	acdw	yeah honestly IDK if I want it to "catch on" in the way that like, Facebook has
2020-07-04 20:25:17	acdw	and I don't think it will
2020-07-04 20:25:27	lukee	bring me my stone chisel :)
2020-07-04 20:25:35	acdw	lukee: same comment I was referencing! lol
2020-07-04 20:26:36	dkibi	I think there are many great people reading HN. there are also many great people writing comments. but also a lot of people commeing from a certain culture (not suprising given who runs it)
2020-07-04 20:26:51	acdw	yepyep
2020-07-04 20:26:53	lukee	was there anyone from gemini community putting the case for it?
2020-07-04 20:26:55	@xq	who runs HN?
2020-07-04 20:26:59	acdw	ycombinator
2020-07-04 20:27:05	acdw	a startup incubator in the bay area
2020-07-04 20:27:19	acdw	so vv growth hacker mindset,
2020-07-04 20:27:35	acdw	vv Silicon Valley
2020-07-04 20:27:35	@xq	ah
2020-07-04 20:27:43	lukee	I dont hate hacker news, but it is a very specific type of mindset
2020-07-04 20:27:47	@xq	"new" == "better than old"
2020-07-04 20:28:02	lukee	Gemini: HackerOlds
2020-07-04 20:28:10	@xq	:D
2020-07-04 20:28:11	@tomasino	I don't see any reason to go be an evangelist on HN. That's specifically the type of web-heads Gemini is making an escape hatch from
2020-07-04 20:28:27	acdw	yeah, it's kind of neat to read for me personally,because I know that I match up with the "demographic" -- I'm a white cis guy in about to be 30 who likes computers -- but I'm not in the culture like, at all
2020-07-04 20:28:34	dkibi	I spotted sloum (who linked kristall ^^)
2020-07-04 20:28:49	lukee	I dont have a HN account, but do read stuff on there. In fact it was there I first heard about gemini
2020-07-04 20:28:50	@xq	i wonder if i should put my release 0.4 of kristall to either HN or lobsters
2020-07-04 20:28:53	acdw	tomasino: 100%
2020-07-04 20:29:08	acdw	I think I actually might've first heard about it from there too
2020-07-04 20:29:28	acdw	can we have a HN gateway in Gemini called HackerOlds? that'd be rad
2020-07-04 20:29:36	lukee	haha
2020-07-04 20:29:42	@tomasino	I think you came in around wave 2, acdw
2020-07-04 20:29:51	acdw	yeah I think so :)
2020-07-04 20:29:58	@xq	i came with the Castor wave :D
2020-07-04 20:30:06	@tomasino	:)
2020-07-04 20:30:21	lukee	me too
2020-07-04 20:30:24	acdw	maybe it was when Castor showed up on Masto or something for me... hm
2020-07-04 20:30:32	acdw	It's a good wave!
2020-07-04 20:30:34	@tomasino	I came from the other side, the gopher origins
2020-07-04 20:30:41	acdw	oh yeah, the "cool" side :P
2020-07-04 20:30:46	@tomasino	;)
2020-07-04 20:31:06	@tomasino	We've been the HN running joke since before HN existed
2020-07-04 20:31:12	acdw	honestly I'm grateful to gemini for showing me gopher in a way I could get into .. I tried to do gopher before but it honestly made no sense to me
2020-07-04 20:31:12	lukee	we have some people walking backwards, some forwards
2020-07-04 20:31:20	acdw	haha yes
2020-07-04 20:31:34	acdw	there's great content on gopher tho, so I'm glad gemini made it more accessible to me
2020-07-04 20:31:39	@tomasino	Now you can watch my peertube videos!
2020-07-04 20:31:43	lukee	gopher isnt so bad if you have a decent client
2020-07-04 20:32:02	@tomasino	My heart is still in gopher
2020-07-04 20:32:34	lukee	honest question to tomasino: do you really appreciate knowing a link is to a DIR or TXT resource?
2020-07-04 20:32:53	lukee	or is that just an implementation quirk - its just text content with links, or maybe not
2020-07-04 20:33:01	@tomasino	My client appreciates it so it knows whether to render it one way or another
2020-07-04 20:33:23	lukee	yes the client must know, but do you as a user like to know this?
2020-07-04 20:33:25	@xq	lukee: imho it's bad design :D
2020-07-04 20:33:33	⚡	xq runs away from tomasino
2020-07-04 20:34:07	@tomasino	Heehee, sometimes it's useful, but practically not so much
2020-07-04 20:34:12	lukee	personally I always found that offputting
2020-07-04 20:34:28	lukee	in my own implementation, this info is not shown to the user
2020-07-04 20:34:59	lukee	A lot of DIR entries seem to have a lot of content in these days with the i selectors
2020-07-04 20:35:13	@tomasino	Some do, like me
2020-07-04 20:35:27	@tomasino	Some avoid it and try to keep it all in type 0
2020-07-04 20:35:41	lukee	it makes the experience more fluid, but I suppose the UI to build the gophermaps is limited?
2020-07-04 20:36:02	@tomasino	Depends on if you have a good way to author in type 1 or not. I wrote a helper app for myself
2020-07-04 20:36:06	lukee	if there is such a thing. Or folks just write it out by hand with the tabs etc
2020-07-04 20:36:22	@tomasino	burrow(1)
2020-07-04 20:36:37	@tomasino	It's linked in my gopher hole
2020-07-04 20:36:46	lukee	I'll check it out thanks
2020-07-04 20:36:57	lukee	is thata quite commonly used
2020-07-04 20:37:11	lukee	approach in gopher to have a specific app like that?
2020-07-04 20:37:56	@tomasino	Usually people start simple, then make a helper script and then it grows
2020-07-04 20:38:40	lukee	I wondered if there will be people who will author in text/gemini then generate the gophermaps from that?
2020-07-04 20:38:54	@tomasino	Getting this kid ready for bed. Distracted...
2020-07-04 20:39:01	lukee	ok no probs
2020-07-04 20:39:17	@tomasino	I generate gemini from gopher for cosmic voyage
2020-07-04 20:39:21	acdw	aww
2020-07-04 20:39:26	@tomasino	I also generate the web from gopher
2020-07-04 20:39:45	acdw	I'm suer you could do it the opposite way too
2020-07-04 20:40:13	lukee	I guess someone is already in gopher they are committed to generating gopher already
2020-07-04 20:40:16	@tomasino	Yep, though knowing the type is a bit trickier
2020-07-04 20:40:46	@tomasino	Cosmic is gopher-first, though the authors don't need to mess with anything but plain text
2020-07-04 20:41:05	lukee	do you have a feeling for the proportion of (active) gopher authors who are participating in gemini authoring or serving as well?
2020-07-04 20:41:28	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/cosmic/cosmic/src/branch/master/awk/gophermap2gemini.awk
2020-07-04 20:41:53	@tomasino	Not really. At first it was everyone, but then the HN waves began
2020-07-04 20:42:11	@tomasino	Now some of the most active people aren't using gopher at all
2020-07-04 20:42:23	@tomasino	It's great
2020-07-04 20:42:23	acdw	I know I don't do gopher
2020-07-04 20:42:30	lukee	in my client I render gopher to GMI then use the same GMI renderer
2020-07-04 20:42:39	acdw	lukee my client does the same thing
2020-07-04 20:42:42	@xq	lukee: same
2020-07-04 20:42:47	@tomasino	:)
2020-07-04 20:42:51	@tomasino	Easy!
2020-07-04 20:42:57	acdw	I basically bashified tomasino's awk script and pipe the gophermap thru it
2020-07-04 20:42:58	@xq	gopher, gemini and all builtins use gemini rendering
2020-07-04 20:43:07	acdw	nice
2020-07-04 20:43:09	@tomasino	Nice
2020-07-04 20:43:25	acdw	it makes a lot of sense, honestly -- gemini is that great middle bettween gopher and http,
2020-07-04 20:43:31	acdw	s/,$//
2020-07-04 20:43:32	@xq	yep
2020-07-04 20:44:00	@tomasino	It's great
2020-07-04 20:44:00	lukee	I wrote a custom gopher parser. I try to do a certain amount of auto-linking in gopher text too
2020-07-04 20:44:18	acdw	that's rad and vv commendable
2020-07-04 20:45:16	lukee	I even have a function that tries to come up with a useful page title based on parsing the gopher URI and making it pretty
2020-07-04 20:45:40	acdw	that's cool as hell !
2020-07-04 20:45:45	@xq	neat!
2020-07-04 20:47:24	@tomasino	For great justice!
2020-07-04 20:47:48	lukee	like this
2020-07-04 20:47:49	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/S1LVwzt
2020-07-04 20:49:14	@xq	i need to implement some title guessing as well
2020-07-04 20:49:24	@xq	can't let Geminaut be ahead of Kristall! :D
2020-07-04 20:49:50	lukee	its a hairy bucket of heuristics
2020-07-04 20:49:58	@xq	yep
2020-07-04 20:51:14	acdw	oh yeah I bet it's really ugly and complicated code :)
2020-07-04 20:51:19	acdw	but it looks so pretty
2020-07-04 20:51:34	@tomasino	:)
2020-07-04 20:52:04	@tomasino	Anyone play with backlinks in GUS yet?
2020-07-04 20:52:16	lukee	it not too bad, but it took me a while to tune it.
2020-07-04 20:53:07	⚡	xq just got the first version of my implementation of epochs HackVR running :)
2020-07-04 20:53:14	lukee	Basically, for a text file, take the filename, remove .txt, normalise the separators, title case it. But if its too short, use the normalised path instead
2020-07-04 20:53:16	acdw	did a little bit, the backlinks are cool
2020-07-04 20:53:33	acdw	oh that's not too complex, lukee
2020-07-04 20:53:36	lukee	for gophermaps, generally just use the last segment of the path
2020-07-04 20:54:56	lukee	see gopher-uri-to-title in https://github.com/LukeEmmet/GemiNaut/blob/master/GemiNaut/GmiConverters/gopher-utils.r3
2020-07-04 20:56:55	acdw	thanks, i'll check it out :)
2020-07-04 21:02:46	acdw	just had a wild idea -- gemini client in vimscript
2020-07-04 21:02:55	acdw	i should probably finish bollux tho tbh
2020-07-04 21:16:27	kensanata	I'm looking for short instructions on how to use the openssl command-line to generate client certificates, given that I create my server certs using ｢openssl req -new -x509 -nodes -out cert.pem -keyout key.pem｣ – any suggestions?
2020-07-04 21:16:53	acdw	I think it might be the same commandline actually
2020-07-04 21:16:58	acdw	thoguh I haven't got around to researching it
2020-07-04 21:17:10	acdw	but I have been told that clients and servers, to TLS, are actually the same
2020-07-04 21:17:24	acdw	btw I love your quotes
2020-07-04 21:18:35	kensanata	Thanks. :)
2020-07-04 21:19:26	kensanata	acdw: I think the client certificates have to be signed somehow. If you just create them, then server can't "verify" them later when the server requests them to be sent for verification.
2020-07-04 21:19:41	kensanata	At least that's my hypothesis for why it doesn't work. :)
2020-07-04 21:19:55	acdw	oh you might be right.
2020-07-04 21:21:26	acdw	astrobotany.mozz.us says to do:
2020-07-04 21:21:27	kensanata	So now the questions is, I think: what's my CA? Does Debian come with one? The "snake oil" thing?
2020-07-04 21:21:40	acdw	openssl genrsa -out astrobotany.key 4096
2020-07-04 21:21:51	acdw	openssl req -new -key astrobotany.key -out astrobotany.rea
2020-07-04 21:21:53	acdw	openssl req -new -key astrobotany.key -out astrobotany.req
2020-07-04 21:22:07	acdw	and you leave everything blank except Common Name
2020-07-04 21:22:16	acdw	OH no wait.
2020-07-04 21:22:22	acdw	you can do .. openssl ca ? I think?
2020-07-04 21:22:50	kensanata	Hm.
2020-07-04 21:22:55	acdw	https://www.linode.com/docs/security/ssl/create-a-self-signed-tls-certificate/
2020-07-04 21:23:34	acdw	I think you need to add a -newkey option
2020-07-04 21:23:39	acdw	to tie the cert to a key
2020-07-04 21:23:50	acdw	though I'm not sure
2020-07-04 21:27:37	kensanata	It's still a mistery and I lack all confidence about this.
2020-07-04 21:27:39	kensanata	Gah.
2020-07-04 21:28:07	kensanata	I think I'll work on some Gemini Wiki features instead. :)
2020-07-04 21:29:41	lukee	another juicy quote from HN to entertain you "In a way Gemini could have been published by writer of European Union , North Korea or Soviet Union laws, I can't belive this is a US products, as it contains too much to liberty constrain ;) "
2020-07-04 21:30:04	lukee	where does one start responding to that?
2020-07-04 21:30:26	lukee	I suppose its said with a winking face, for irony
2020-07-04 21:30:51	kensanata	Answer "Finland?" or wherever Solderpunk was at the time?
2020-07-04 21:33:00	lukee	yes, but its just such a bizarre outburst
2020-07-04 21:34:55	kensanata	I think one has to translate that into "Why is minimalism a thing? Why does it have to be mandated? Minimalism in the web has meaning because you can do otherwise. Brutalism in architecture because you can hide it all. To mandate minimalism is simply poverty. It has no meaning."
2020-07-04 21:35:25	kensanata	So imagine that, and reply to this imagined intelligent challenge, and hope for a good conversation. Or have that conversation elsewhere. :D
2020-07-04 21:37:00	lukee	I'm not sure Brutalism is a target reference for what we ought to aspire to
2020-07-04 21:37:51	lukee	for me its more about humanism, but I take the point about brutalism as a signpost for radical and unadorned simplicity
2020-07-04 21:38:25	@tomasino	I dig brutalism so much more after learning about it on 99% invisible
2020-07-04 21:38:34	lukee	Brutalist architecture was often not designed with the humans in mind, just an ego stroke for the architect
2020-07-04 21:38:52	lukee	well 99% invisible is amazing
2020-07-04 21:39:32	kensanata	haha
2020-07-04 21:40:19	kensanata	You should write a post on your site about it, and I will write one on mine, and then we can link to each other.
2020-07-04 21:41:26	lukee	it does sound good. I think there is lots of implicit cultural philosophy in the gemini community. What are we trying to do and why.
2020-07-04 21:41:35	lukee	And what would be a good solution
2020-07-04 21:41:51	lukee	what tradeoffs can we make, and which ones wont we make
2020-07-04 21:41:57	kensanata	do you have a link to that quote? I'm going to write something right now.
2020-07-04 21:42:22	lukee	which quote - the HN one?
2020-07-04 21:42:26	makeworld	Brutualism is great
2020-07-04 21:42:32	kensanata	The one about North Korea.
2020-07-04 21:42:44	lukee	stand by I'll get it
2020-07-04 21:43:29	makeworld	Woah md2gemini got a shoutout in that post! Cool
2020-07-04 21:43:57	lukee	the full page is here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730408
2020-07-04 21:44:08	lukee	they dont seem to have permalinks for the entries on the page
2020-07-04 21:44:20	kensanata	OK, thanks.
2020-07-04 21:44:53	lukee	but you can get the item on its own (as if you were to respond to it)
2020-07-04 21:44:54	lukee	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23734531
2020-07-04 21:45:18	lukee	or you can just search for "north korea" in the top level page
2020-07-04 21:48:26	makeworld	Everyone on HN seems to just think that the magic bullet is to declare a subset of HTML and HTTP lol
2020-07-04 21:49:01	lukee	that horse has bolted
2020-07-04 21:49:11	kensanata	Whis is a fine argument to make, I think! It does need an explanation.
2020-07-04 21:49:36	lukee	there is no magic bullet
2020-07-04 21:49:44	kensanata	And it's not immediately obvious that the links from the safe net to the unsafe net that Solderpunk postulated is a good counter argument.
2020-07-04 21:50:02	kensanata	Well, perhaps I'm too interested in Philosophy in any case.
2020-07-04 21:50:37	lukee	I wonder if the irony of the "success" of gemini, will be that it is just to bare bones for almost everyone, so the pressures to evolve it will be much lower
2020-07-04 21:50:47	lukee	like how gopher survived
2020-07-04 21:50:56	lukee	to bare bones -> too bare bones
2020-07-04 21:51:12	makeworld	Yeah maybe
2020-07-04 21:51:26	@tomasino	HTML all the things
2020-07-04 21:51:28	lukee	i.e. it will be a "success" for us if it is a "failure" for the wider world
2020-07-04 21:51:30	@tomasino	:P
2020-07-04 21:51:45	makeworld	Yes for sure :)
2020-07-04 21:52:58	lukee	Gemini: "purposefully striving for failure" (TM)
2020-07-04 21:57:48	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 21:57:50		snoe60 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-04 21:58:05	makeworld	Haha great
2020-07-04 21:59:17		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-04 22:02:31	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 22:04:29	lukee	hey folks, its been great chatting as always. its late here so I'm turning in.
2020-07-04 22:05:10		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 22:09:27	kensanata	Does anybody remember the link where Solderpunk argued for the SafeWeb?
2020-07-04 22:10:33	kensanata	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/cornedbeef/why-not-just-use-a-subset-of-http-and-html.gmi
2020-07-04 22:22:09		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-04 22:35:44	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 22:46:49	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 23:10:09		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-04 23:20:23		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-04 23:58:52	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-04 23:59:53		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 00:39:58	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 01:21:05		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 01:21:16	▬▬▶	drskrzyk_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 01:21:20	ℹ 	drskrzyk_ is now known as drskrzyk
2020-07-05 01:59:24	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 02:00:53		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 02:19:50	▬▬▶	Grim has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 03:37:33	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 04:00:28	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 04:01:57		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 04:48:56	mk270	on the "safeweb", see also: gemini://gemini.ucant.org/meta/why-gemini.gemini
2020-07-05 05:27:22	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 05:28:52		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 05:47:35		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 06:12:09		Grim has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 06:32:42	▬▬▶	Grim has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 07:07:24		notandinus has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 07:09:55	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 07:13:02		xfnw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 07:28:26	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 07:29:56		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 08:11:52	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 08:18:29		xfnw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 08:37:25	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 08:58:15	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 08:59:16		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 09:02:23		xfnw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 09:06:02	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 09:28:58		xfnw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 09:36:11	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 09:38:34	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 09:56:32		xfnw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 10:10:19		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 10:19:23	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 10:30:23	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 10:51:43		xfnw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 10:58:47	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 11:00:16		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 12:15:10	natpen	Historical growth data for Geminispace is now available at gemini://gus.guru/statistics/historical/overall ! You can see the number of pages and domains go up pretty dramatically during the publicity waves in May and June. Thanks to makeworld for asking for this feature (and also very excited to see the things you have in mind to build with these data points).
2020-07-05 12:19:15	@tomasino	natpen++
2020-07-05 12:20:03	@tomasino	this is so neat
2020-07-05 12:22:30	@tomasino	playing with backlinks now
2020-07-05 12:24:29	natpen	oh! I just saw... I think I need to normalize trailing slashes away
2020-07-05 12:24:51	natpen	you tried gemini://gus.guru/backlinks?gemini%3A//tilde.black which has nothing, but if you add a trailing slash: gemini://gus.guru/backlinks?gemini%3A//tilde.black/ then you'll find them
2020-07-05 12:25:37	natpen	the backlinks adventure is really testing my patience with dealing with trailing slashes in URLs in an intuitive and consistent way :sweats:
2020-07-05 12:31:38	@tomasino	aww, sorry to give you slash-sweats
2020-07-05 12:32:37	▬▬▶	Bunnyhammer has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 12:33:10	@tomasino	oh, this is so great. I had no idea mozz ran a test suite against tilde.black
2020-07-05 12:37:20		Bunnyhammer has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 12:55:26	natpen	Glad you like it!! I've been finding all sorts of interesting links playing with this too. I just pushed a fix to the trailing slash issue, so hopefully that will "just work" now, without anyone, including me, having to think about trailing slashes any more :)
2020-07-05 12:59:51	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 13:01:20		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 14:03:29		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 14:06:05	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 14:26:40	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 14:59:19	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 15:00:20		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 15:04:56		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 15:07:06	makeworld	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/issues/9#issuecomment-653837940
2020-07-05 15:07:09		bard has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 15:07:26	makeworld	Anyone want to offer there thoughts here on this before I write some post up about it?
2020-07-05 15:07:39	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 15:08:12	makeworld	Basically he's suggesting we stop using expiry dates for certs
2020-07-05 15:08:21	makeworld	And just rely on keys
2020-07-05 15:08:26	makeworld	And it makes a lot of sense to me
2020-07-05 15:09:30	▬▬▶	athiakos has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 15:10:40		athiakos has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 15:18:25	makeworld	xq tomasino any opinions?
2020-07-05 15:26:42	@tomasino	I'm not sure
2020-07-05 15:26:51	@tomasino	It makes sense but I'm not sure
2020-07-05 15:27:03	makeworld	Yeah...
2020-07-05 15:27:08	@tomasino	Having an expiration means nothing, really
2020-07-05 15:27:23	@xq	yeah sounds reasonable
2020-07-05 15:27:36	@tomasino	If I hit a cert that changed I don't have any action to check the new one on a reasonable way
2020-07-05 15:28:21	@tomasino	What steps can I as a user take to ensure I'm safe and communicating with the right server
2020-07-05 15:28:23	makeworld	The advantage of this is that certs will change very rarely, so you can be more aware of it
2020-07-05 15:28:37	@tomasino	That's true
2020-07-05 15:28:55	makeworld	Like right now they change all the time, so as a user I will just accept any issue pretty much  bc I just want to see the site
2020-07-05 15:29:05	@tomasino	Exactly
2020-07-05 15:29:19	makeworld	But if they were really rare then the warning popup could be more aggressive
2020-07-05 15:29:35	@tomasino	Possibly
2020-07-05 15:30:19	makeworld	The only times it would happen would be an MITM, or if someone's hard drive fails and they have no backups or whatever
2020-07-05 15:30:25	@tomasino	Theres no way to tie info to a new cert, like a comment on why or when it changed
2020-07-05 15:30:33	@tomasino	Something a user might care about
2020-07-05 15:30:59	makeworld	Yeah that's true. But I figure reducing how often cert changes is a good idea
2020-07-05 15:31:11	@tomasino	On the surface I agree
2020-07-05 15:31:16	makeworld	But?
2020-07-05 15:31:26	@tomasino	But I'm ignorant of much of the innards of TLS
2020-07-05 15:31:39	@tomasino	There is probably stuff I'm just unaware of
2020-07-05 15:31:51	makeworld	Yeah, I just have to work off what I know
2020-07-05 15:32:17	@tomasino	Put out the idea to the list and let the TLS nerds beat it up
2020-07-05 15:32:40	makeworld	I was thinking about writing a post, but maybe a list post is better?
2020-07-05 15:32:50	makeworld	Maybe I'll write the post and then link to it
2020-07-05 15:32:51	@tomasino	Both
2020-07-05 15:32:56	makeworld	Yeah ok
2020-07-05 15:32:58	makeworld	Thanks!
2020-07-05 15:33:02	@tomasino	My pleasure
2020-07-05 15:33:39	@tomasino	I will agree with you absolutely that as of right now an invalid cert just means I revoke and TOFU all over again
2020-07-05 15:33:56	@tomasino	There's nothing else for me to do
2020-07-05 15:34:10	@tomasino	Maybe there's an alternative there
2020-07-05 15:34:41	makeworld	Yeah
2020-07-05 16:04:03	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 16:17:31	makeworld	tomasino: gemini://makeworld.gq/test/2020-07-05-tofu-2.gmi
2020-07-05 16:17:46	makeworld	Can you help me make sure this actually makes sense before I post it?
2020-07-05 16:21:43	makeworld	Meh, I'll just send it, it's pretty short
2020-07-05 16:21:52	makeworld	I'm open to changing stuff if you see anything though
2020-07-05 16:27:10	dctrud	hello all. Just started to dip my toe into gemini at gemini://dctrud.randomroad.net
2020-07-05 16:28:33	makeworld	Alright, I posted it and sent it to the ml
2020-07-05 16:28:54	makeworld	dctrud: Nice!
2020-07-05 16:34:29	dctrud	thanks... hoping that at some point there'll be something interesting there
2020-07-05 16:39:07	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 16:41:36	makeworld	It's interesting already :)
2020-07-05 16:41:39	makeworld	lukee: Hey
2020-07-05 16:42:22	lukee	hi makeworld
2020-07-05 16:43:57	lukee	saw your post about not using expiry dates - seem radical, but maybe it makes sense. I dont know if I have an opinion yet
2020-07-05 16:44:07	lukee	its not really my area of expertise
2020-07-05 16:45:30	lukee	what do expiry dates protect against?
2020-07-05 16:45:58	lukee	against someone who has stolen my certificate pretending to be me forever?
2020-07-05 16:46:54	makeworld	Yeah, but they only really make sense when you're using CAs on the traditional internet
2020-07-05 16:47:34	lukee	because if its a self-signed tofu, I cannot prove I am me anyway?
2020-07-05 16:47:45	makeworld	A CA like Let's Encrypt will sign your cert that has an expiry date of 90 days, which means they're saying they authorize it for that period of time. If someone gets access to your private key, their damage is limited to 90 days worth.
2020-07-05 16:47:48	lukee	apart from some out of band channel
2020-07-05 16:47:53	makeworld	But that doesn't really apply when there's no CA
2020-07-05 16:48:12	makeworld	It's not really about that
2020-07-05 16:48:54	makeworld	It's just like, when a CA signs your cert, they're approving it and everyone will accept that. But you don't want the cert to just be approved till the end of time, bc if someone gets access to the priv key then you're screwed
2020-07-05 16:49:33	makeworld	So there's an expiry date so that even if something bad happens with the previous cert, you can have a new one
2020-07-05 16:50:30	lukee	but with self-signed certs, there is no authority behind it
2020-07-05 16:50:52	lukee	so all you get to know is whether the signing agent has changed or not
2020-07-05 16:55:13	makeworld	Yeah
2020-07-05 16:55:33	makeworld	That's pretty much the idea. There's no CAs, so when a cert changes you can't know whether it's good or bad
2020-07-05 16:55:44	makeworld	So a good solution is just to "never" change the cert
2020-07-05 16:58:05	lukee	so the main point is that the TLS layer protects the transport, but noone should expect it to mean you are talking to who you think you are talking to
2020-07-05 16:58:48	lukee	when we are talking about self-signed certs
2020-07-05 16:59:52	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 17:01:21		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 17:05:39	makeworld	Yeah pretty much
2020-07-05 17:05:56	makeworld	I could intercept traffic and send a different cert
2020-07-05 17:06:28	makeworld	That's basically the attack vector that all this stuff is trying to prevent, a man-in-the-middle attack
2020-07-05 17:07:53	lukee	It might be fine - I'm not in a position to have a strong opinion on this
2020-07-05 17:09:00	lukee	clients and users still need a workflow for when the a self-signed cert does occur. For various reasons servers might still want a shorter expiry than 100 yrs
2020-07-05 17:39:00	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 18:17:28	makeworld	lukee: You mean when the change occurs?
2020-07-05 18:17:40	makeworld	I would say that the workflow is just to notify the user
2020-07-05 18:18:19	lukee	yes, sorry not very clearly written
2020-07-05 18:18:54	lukee	I see solderpunk has just chipped into the thread on the mailing list
2020-07-05 18:22:25	drskrzyk	lukee: the tls one?
2020-07-05 18:23:14	drskrzyk	nm, the atom xml one. Ignore me :D
2020-07-05 18:26:52	makeworld	lukee: Yes, he has. Looks like it was a bad idea after all haha
2020-07-05 18:27:34	makeworld	I updated my post to include that first paragraph
2020-07-05 19:00:55	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 19:02:25		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 19:12:49	@tomasino	Ahha
2020-07-05 19:12:56	@tomasino	We'll okay then
2020-07-05 19:13:07	▬▬▶	Gopher has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 19:13:26	@tomasino	Maybe his guide will explain what a user can actually do with a cert warning message
2020-07-05 19:20:59		lel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 19:30:14	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 19:32:10		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 19:35:02		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 19:37:41	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 19:46:51		Gopher has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 19:51:06		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 19:52:27	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 20:08:28	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 20:11:30		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-05 20:13:25	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 20:13:37		lukee_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 20:17:33		lel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 20:18:01	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 20:24:21		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-05 21:01:32	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 21:03:01		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 21:11:07		gernot has left #gemini
2020-07-05 23:02:35	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-05 23:04:05		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-05 23:48:21	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 01:23:21		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-06 01:49:17	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 01:50:06	▬▬▶	gambit has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:08:11		Grim has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		mmmattyx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		gambit has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		links has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		audiodude has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		epoch_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		Ernoz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		snoe6059 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		codingquark has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		siina has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		yeti has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		dozens has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		coleman has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		Nalaph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		tuesday has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		sndr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		Sario528 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		pekka20 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		hhes has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		wangofett has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		lvgx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		exprez135 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		everbern has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		tadzik has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		dctrud has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		prisonpotato has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		paper_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		drskrzyk has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		xq has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		notandinus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		ine has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:20:56		omse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	tadzik has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	epoch_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	audiodude has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	yeti has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo xq ben] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬���▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	ine has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	prisonpotato has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	dozens has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	snoe6059 has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	gambit has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	notandinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 02:21:01	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-07-06 03:04:52		gambit has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-06 03:12:05		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-06 04:29:53		lel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-06 05:52:12		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-06 05:54:40		notandinus has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-06 05:55:34	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 06:14:18	ℹ 	andinus is now known as BotBit
2020-07-06 06:20:54	ℹ 	BotBit is now known as andinus
2020-07-06 07:00:51	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 13:30:46	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 13:52:21		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-06 14:34:47	makeworld	xq: I saw you're adding Kristall to homebrew? That's great
2020-07-06 14:35:02	makeworld	It'll have to be their GUI cask or tap or whatever though right?
2020-07-06 14:52:49	⚡	xq has no idea about apple LOL
2020-07-06 14:53:12	@xq	will see if the PR maker is helping me :D
2020-07-06 14:56:31	makeworld	Hopefully heh
2020-07-06 14:56:48	makeworld	I'm not on Apple either but I've always thought homebrew was cool
2020-07-06 14:58:23	@xq	it's a kind of packet manager, right?
2020-07-06 14:58:32	@tomasino	package manager, yes
2020-07-06 14:58:46	@tomasino	less hacky than macports
2020-07-06 14:59:25	@xq	ah
2020-07-06 14:59:47	@tomasino	"the missing macOS package manager" i think was a tagline for a while
2020-07-06 15:01:04	@tomasino	i used to do this when setting up my macbook for work... when i had a macbook for work -- https://github.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles/blob/master/install-osx.txt
2020-07-06 15:02:22	makeworld	Ooh that looks nice
2020-07-06 15:02:27	makeworld	Why .txt thoug haha
2020-07-06 15:03:02	makeworld	xq: https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-cask
2020-07-06 15:03:10	makeworld	This is what I was talking about cask
2020-07-06 15:03:28	makeworld	You'll notice tomasin o's script has `brew cask` commands and stuff
2020-07-06 15:03:35	@xq	ah nice
2020-07-06 15:03:45	makeworld	My understanding is that it's installing the software from a special homebrew repo for GUI apps
2020-07-06 15:04:06	makeworld	So you should probably do that for Kristall I think
2020-07-06 15:05:32	@tomasino	that was a .sh for a while, but homebrew and osx changed so much that every time i tried to actually run it as a script it ended up blowing up. So i just copy & pasted blocks from it after a bit
2020-07-06 15:05:45	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-07-06 15:05:53	@tomasino	and brew cask got internalized at one point
2020-07-06 15:05:57	@tomasino	not sure if that's used anymore
2020-07-06 15:06:03	@tomasino	i've been out of the mac game for almost 2 years now
2020-07-06 15:14:25	@xq	i hope i find some time to continue Kristall development in the next weeks
2020-07-06 15:14:29	@xq	a lot to to right now
2020-07-06 15:14:38	@xq	but i'm happy to see some small PRs being done <3
2020-07-06 15:15:33	@tomasino	i'm happy to use it and feed your poor plant
2020-07-06 15:16:15	makeworld	It probably doesn't apply, but how does kristall or any other browser stop loading?
2020-07-06 15:16:34	@tomasino	antigravitons
2020-07-06 15:16:40	@xq	oh no!
2020-07-06 15:16:43	@xq	my plant! *screams
2020-07-06 15:16:53	@xq	makeworld: i just click stop LOL
2020-07-06 15:16:53	@xq	:D
2020-07-06 15:17:07	@xq	but serious talk: i just close the socket connection and discard loaded data
2020-07-06 15:17:10	makeworld	Right now in Amfora you can't really stop a page from being loaded, which is problematic if you want to load a different page instead or something
2020-07-06 15:17:15	makeworld	Hmm
2020-07-06 15:17:35	makeworld	Ok
2020-07-06 15:18:00	makeworld	I think my code is just kinda nested around, and I need to figure that out
2020-07-06 15:18:09	@xq	if you clicked a link in kristall and then click another one, i'll also stop loading the previous one
2020-07-06 15:18:32	makeworld	Yeah I'd like to handle stuff like that
2020-07-06 15:18:53	makeworld	Like right now if you start loading a link and go back in the history it's still loading the original one
2020-07-06 15:19:18	makeworld	The temp solution is just to not allow going back when a link is loading, but obv that's not long term
2020-07-06 15:19:44	@tomasino	traps!
2020-07-06 15:23:26	@xq	It's a tarp!
2020-07-06 15:25:59	@tomasino	it's magicarp!
2020-07-06 15:26:24	@tomasino	https://www.deviantart.com/neosamus/art/Magikarp-50492952?q=boost%3Apopular+in%3Adigitalart+magikarp&qo=8
2020-07-06 15:28:14	makeworld	Thanks for the help everyone ;)
2020-07-06 15:40:28	makeworld	tanelorn.city is down
2020-07-06 16:05:00	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 16:05:57	acdw	so I did *not* get any bollux hacking done this weekend :/
2020-07-06 16:06:16	makeworld	Aww
2020-07-06 16:06:24	makeworld	There's always next weekend?
2020-07-06 16:09:39	acdw	yeah that's true
2020-07-06 16:09:45	acdw	or the evenings ... :P
2020-07-06 16:11:55	makeworld	Yes those too :)
2020-07-06 16:20:32		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-06 16:38:26	acdw	haha
2020-07-06 17:08:26		links has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-06 17:08:39		yali has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-06 17:08:48		styan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-06 17:10:24	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 17:10:28	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 17:10:37	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 17:14:47	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 17:33:53	▬▬▶	snoe605987 has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 17:34:53		snoe6059 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-06 17:45:35	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 17:59:08	makeworld	tomasino: Could you remind me again what that weather site you had was?
2020-07-06 17:59:12	makeworld	Gopher and Gemini
2020-07-06 17:59:19	makeworld	Just forget the domain
2020-07-06 18:00:13	makeworld	Also wow does Jetforce make multi hosting and vhosting easy
2020-07-06 18:00:31	makeworld	LIke if I have multiple applications, a static file server, on different domains, or paths, etc
2020-07-06 18:00:35	makeworld	Very cool
2020-07-06 18:32:45		snoe605987 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-06 18:34:15	@tomasino	oh yeah?
2020-07-06 18:34:24	@tomasino	i need to look into that for black to get it running right on tor
2020-07-06 19:18:41	makeworld	Yeah it's quite cool
2020-07-06 19:18:47	makeworld	https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/blob/master/examples/vhost.py
2020-07-06 19:18:53	makeworld	There's the simple vhost example
2020-07-06 19:20:40	@tomasino	do i run that script instead of running jetforce?
2020-07-06 19:28:54	▬▬▶	snoe605987 has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 19:29:50	makeworld	Yeah
2020-07-06 19:30:31	makeworld	Like you basically write however many jetforce apps you need, then you create a composite application that maps vhosts to applications
2020-07-06 19:30:33	makeworld	And run that script
2020-07-06 19:32:38	@tomasino	i'll have to work on that and then change my jetforce rc.d script on black
2020-07-06 19:36:31	@tomasino	how do you tell it your key & cert?
2020-07-06 19:36:52	@tomasino	--tls-certfile /etc/gemini/cert.pem --tls-keyfile /etc/gemini/key.pem --host 0.0.0.0 --hostname tilde.black --dir /var/gemini --port 1965
2020-07-06 19:36:58	@tomasino	i was running jetforce with all this...
2020-07-06 19:37:33	makeworld	Line 40 of the script I linked, with the certfile and keyfile args
2020-07-06 19:38:12	makeworld	So: server = GeminiServer(app, certfile="/path/to/cert", keyfile="key.key")
2020-07-06 19:38:33	makeworld	Be aware though: https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce#virtual-hosting
2020-07-06 19:38:50	makeworld	You can't use different TLS certs for different domains
2020-07-06 19:39:10	makeworld	"The suggested workaround is to use a single certificate with multiple subjectAltName attributes."
2020-07-06 19:39:20	makeworld	So you'd have to create a new cert that supports both domains
2020-07-06 19:39:49	@tomasino	oh, crapolla
2020-07-06 19:40:11	@tomasino	ugh, this is tricky
2020-07-06 19:40:24	makeworld	Yeah, the cert thing is annoying
2020-07-06 19:40:31	makeworld	You can see this in action if you look at https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/mozz.us/?crt=1
2020-07-06 19:40:38	@tomasino	i don't think i even made the inital cert. i think jettforce did
2020-07-06 19:40:41	makeworld	And scroll down to  X509v3 Subject Alternative Name
2020-07-06 19:40:42	@tomasino	but i don't remember
2020-07-06 19:40:46	makeworld	Uh oh
2020-07-06 19:41:00	makeworld	That's only a temp cert I thought, like the Jetforce one goes away when the server shuts down
2020-07-06 19:41:21	@tomasino	nah, it's something else hten
2020-07-06 19:41:25	@tomasino	i've restarted this plenty
2020-07-06 19:41:35	@tomasino	maybe it was instructions in the readme
2020-07-06 19:41:40	@tomasino	not sure
2020-07-06 19:42:08	@tomasino	i don't need multiple apps. I just need to serve the same document root under two hostnames. tilde.black, and the tor address
2020-07-06 19:42:10	@tomasino	that's it
2020-07-06 19:43:00	makeworld	Oh okay
2020-07-06 19:43:11	makeworld	You'll still need to create a new cert that supports both addresses
2020-07-06 19:43:16	@tomasino	yeah
2020-07-06 19:43:35	makeworld	But it sounds like you just create one StaticFileServer, and then map two vhost domains to it
2020-07-06 19:43:42	makeworld	I can write an example file if you want
2020-07-06 19:44:15	@tomasino	i think i have that part... probably
2020-07-06 19:44:24	@tomasino	i found the cert generation help part in the jetforce readme
2020-07-06 19:44:33	@tomasino	now to figure out how to have mulitiple names
2020-07-06 19:45:04	makeworld	Yeah, you'll have to search online about openssl I guess
2020-07-06 19:45:08	makeworld	Don't know how to do that sorry
2020-07-06 19:45:38	@tomasino	hehe
2020-07-06 19:45:44	@tomasino	this is almost easy
2020-07-06 19:47:51	makeworld	Ha
2020-07-06 19:48:24	@tomasino	i think i found a way
2020-07-06 19:48:24	@tomasino	maybe
2020-07-06 19:48:26	@tomasino	we'll see
2020-07-06 19:49:40	@tomasino	ugh, openbsd old ass openssl
2020-07-06 19:50:03	@tomasino	doesn't support -addext
2020-07-06 19:50:16	@tomasino	why did i do this on tilde.black
2020-07-06 19:53:07	@tomasino	updating openssl
2020-07-06 19:53:10	@tomasino	lets see if this blows up everything
2020-07-06 19:53:56	makeworld	Good luck
2020-07-06 19:54:05	makeworld	Lmk what the command is once you find one that works
2020-07-06 19:54:44	@tomasino	https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/74345/provide-subjectaltname-to-openssl-directly-on-the-command-line
2020-07-06 19:54:51	@tomasino	it's in here, but it's still being a dick
2020-07-06 19:55:06	@tomasino	i installed 1.1.1 but i think openbsd is still seeing the old openssl
2020-07-06 19:56:59	makeworld	Hmm
2020-07-06 19:57:24	⚡	tomasino cries
2020-07-06 19:59:37	dctrud	Isn't openssl in OpenBSD really libressl?
2020-07-06 19:59:59	dctrud	... and likely missing things :-/
2020-07-06 20:04:48	@tomasino	yes
2020-07-06 20:04:56	@tomasino	i did "something"
2020-07-06 20:05:00	@tomasino	not sure how to test it yet
2020-07-06 20:06:35	dctrud	heh... good luck :-) I have just been using acme-client or certbot to get certs with alt names and share them between http and jetforce
2020-07-06 20:07:23	dctrud	the .py file I'm using to serve under multiple hostnames is up at: gemini://randomroad.net/
2020-07-06 20:07:41	dctrud	Have 2 'apps' and one of those is serving under 3 hostnames
2020-07-06 20:07:55	@tomasino	i had hella problems using certbot unless i want to run jetforce as root
2020-07-06 20:07:59	@tomasino	can't see the keys otherwise
2020-07-06 20:08:15	dctrud	yeah - you have to manually setup some group membership and mess with the dir perms
2020-07-06 20:08:39	dctrud	I'm on NetBSD... might be harder on OpenBSD if it is more chrooted for acme-client etc. too
2020-07-06 20:09:59	@tomasino	everything is harder
2020-07-06 20:09:59	@tomasino	haha
2020-07-06 20:10:05	@tomasino	i don't know openbsd at all
2020-07-06 20:10:10	@tomasino	made tilde.black to learn it
2020-07-06 20:10:36	@tomasino	and now i'm in a fun mixture of 1) openbsd 2) openssl 3) an unfamiliar python app
2020-07-06 20:10:45	@tomasino	i know nothing, jon snow
2020-07-06 20:11:02	@tomasino	i mean... i ran a script and it outputted keys, but i don't think they're right
2020-07-06 20:11:41	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 20:12:06	@tomasino	unable to load X509 request
2020-07-06 20:12:06	@tomasino	27066342865232:error:09FFF06C:PEM routines:CRYPTO_internal:no start line:/usr/src/lib/libcrypto/pem/pem_lib.c:694:Expecting: CERTIFICATE REQUEST
2020-07-06 20:12:09	@tomasino	poop
2020-07-06 20:12:22	lukee	hi fellow travellers
2020-07-06 20:13:04	acdw	o/ lukee
2020-07-06 20:14:27	dctrud	that generally occurs if you are trying to give something that wants a CSR a private key instead
2020-07-06 20:15:26	@tomasino	ahha
2020-07-06 20:15:27	lukee	trying to push for a new GemiNaut release - lots of small tasks - mostly documentation on the TBD list though
2020-07-06 20:16:08	@tomasino	any idea how to check contents of a crt?
2020-07-06 20:16:31	@tomasino	oh!
2020-07-06 20:16:34	@tomasino	i think i got it
2020-07-06 20:16:38	@tomasino	oooh oooh ooh
2020-07-06 20:16:39	acdw	openssl s_client -connect host:port | openssl x509 -text
2020-07-06 20:16:40	acdw	?
2020-07-06 20:17:34	ine	openssl s_client -showcerts -servername your.host.com -connect host:port | openssl x509 -noout
2020-07-06 20:18:01	ine	omit -servername your.host.com if not using tls sni
2020-07-06 20:18:54	acdw	I did not know about the -showcerts option, thanks ine
2020-07-06 20:19:39	@tomasino	now what the hell
2020-07-06 20:19:47	@tomasino	i changed my rc.d script but wheni  ran it again it used the old one
2020-07-06 20:19:52	@tomasino	grrrr openbsd
2020-07-06 20:20:43	lukee	ine: based on your earlier feedback, I managed to update GemiNaut so the default theme makes its own identicons - no external references now
2020-07-06 20:21:05	makeworld	Ay nice!
2020-07-06 20:21:08	@tomasino	gonna punch rc.d in the face hole
2020-07-06 20:21:14	lukee	and its faster (no tiny flash when it gets the image)
2020-07-06 20:23:33	acdw	oh snap yall there's a wiki page on gemini
2020-07-06 20:24:12	acdw	tomasino: I tried to use BSD once or twice but yeah ... I ran into many of the problesm it seems like you're facing
2020-07-06 20:24:33	@tomasino	two now, i think, acdw 
2020-07-06 20:24:37	@tomasino	kensenatas and the new one
2020-07-06 20:25:51	acdw	:O
2020-07-06 20:25:59	acdw	I mean like a Wikipedia page
2020-07-06 20:26:07	acdw	https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gemini_(protocol)
2020-07-06 20:26:16	lukee	its been there for a couple of weeks I think
2020-07-06 20:26:21	acdw	oh cool
2020-07-06 20:26:32	lukee	created 26-Jun
2020-07-06 20:26:51	acdw	that's one week
2020-07-06 20:27:02	@tomasino	okay, i'm running the new cert
2020-07-06 20:27:02	acdw	ish
2020-07-06 20:27:05	@tomasino	on tilde.black
2020-07-06 20:27:09	lukee	time flies when your having fun
2020-07-06 20:27:09	@tomasino	it seems to work with my normal setup
2020-07-06 20:27:10	acdw	fingers crossed tomasino!
2020-07-06 20:27:14	@tomasino	now to try the fancy shit
2020-07-06 20:27:32	lukee	your -> you're
2020-07-06 20:27:57	makeworld	tomasino: I get conn refused on tilde.black
2020-07-06 20:28:08	@tomasino	it's offline atm
2020-07-06 20:28:13	@tomasino	i'm working on the vhost.py
2020-07-06 20:28:46	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-07-06 20:28:51	ine	lukee: nice!
2020-07-06 20:28:55	ine	a welcome change
2020-07-06 20:29:10	lukee	it was on the todo list, it just bubbled up a bit
2020-07-06 20:29:36	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 20:30:08	⚡	kensanata waves
2020-07-06 20:30:27	lukee	hiya
2020-07-06 20:30:39	@tomasino	okay, got it up
2020-07-06 20:30:41	@tomasino	now to test tor
2020-07-06 20:31:02	@tomasino	black6kfjetfuzaeozz7fs53whh7xtd4e27telrf5fg5kgdt5ah5plad.onion
2020-07-06 20:31:27	@tomasino	i think it worked
2020-07-06 20:31:34	@tomasino	av98 returned success after a hot minute
2020-07-06 20:31:39	@tomasino	can anyone else confirm?
2020-07-06 20:32:00	@tomasino	torify kristall works great, btw
2020-07-06 20:32:07	acdw	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/tilde.black/
2020-07-06 20:32:09	acdw	is up
2020-07-06 20:32:17	acdw	oh but tor -- idk
2020-07-06 20:32:23	acdw	I honestly don't even really get tor tbh
2020-07-06 20:32:53	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QYF.png
2020-07-06 20:32:58	@tomasino	sweet jesus that was annoying
2020-07-06 20:33:06	@tomasino	now i need to still figure out how to get it to run under rc.d
2020-07-06 20:33:33	@tomasino	i guess i better write it up too
2020-07-06 20:33:34	@tomasino	ugh!
2020-07-06 20:33:50	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/tilde.black/?crt=1 looks good!
2020-07-06 20:34:34	@tomasino	crap, my cert is only good for a month
2020-07-06 20:34:35	@tomasino	hahah
2020-07-06 20:34:48	@tomasino	gonna have to fix that
2020-07-06 20:35:27	kensanata	Going online using bad wifi in the mountains teaches me a lot about unecessary timeouts.
2020-07-06 20:35:47	@tomasino	black is back down for a min
2020-07-06 20:36:16	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 20:36:27	@tomasino	anyone remember the switch to tell openssl to expire in 5 years?
2020-07-06 20:36:28	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-06 20:38:12	kensanata	 openssl req -new -x509 -days 365 -nodes -out cert.pem -keyout key.pem
2020-07-06 20:38:21	kensanata	From one of my examples I have in some docs somewhere
2020-07-06 20:38:35	@tomasino	-days 1825 it is
2020-07-06 20:39:25	@tomasino	bam
2020-07-06 20:39:27	@tomasino	that worked
2020-07-06 20:39:35	@tomasino	okay, cert is good for 5 years
2020-07-06 20:39:36	@tomasino	huzzah
2020-07-06 20:39:51	@tomasino	now to get this stupid rc.d working
2020-07-06 20:39:51	makeworld	Woohoo!
2020-07-06 20:39:57	makeworld	I should really do that for makeworld.gq
2020-07-06 20:40:24	makeworld	kensanata: What is -nodes ?
2020-07-06 20:40:58	kensanata	No idea.
2020-07-06 20:41:11	kensanata	If this option is specified then if a private key is created it will not be encrypted.
2020-07-06 20:41:22	lukee	I think it is "no des"
2020-07-06 20:41:24	kensanata	So, no passphrase, I guess?
2020-07-06 20:41:37	kensanata	lukee: Ah, makes so much more sense.
2020-07-06 20:41:50	lukee	it confused the hell out of me too
2020-07-06 20:42:11	makeworld	Hmm
2020-07-06 20:42:24	lukee	still does TBH
2020-07-06 20:42:25	@tomasino	i have -nodes in there multiple times too
2020-07-06 20:42:27	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-06 20:42:29	acdw	should be -no-des tbh
2020-07-06 20:42:33	@tomasino	no idea what anything does
2020-07-06 20:42:37	@tomasino	ugh, i hate rc.d
2020-07-06 20:42:49	acdw	~install ubuntu~
2020-07-06 20:42:50	@tomasino	starting a stupid python3 script and keeping it running is so annoying
2020-07-06 20:42:51	kensanata	I'm going to try and stare at https://gist.github.com/xenogenesi/1b2137f769aa80b6c99d573071f5d086
2020-07-06 20:42:52	acdw	~install windows~
2020-07-06 20:43:03	lukee	I rely on the commandline wizards to cook the spells, I just incant them
2020-07-06 20:43:11	acdw	~install the OS that Samsung Smart Fridges use~
2020-07-06 20:43:51	ine	webos?
2020-07-06 20:44:23	dctrud	the cheat way to avoid rc.d in openbsd is to add it to cron to run every minute, but with the `-s` flag so it runs one instance max...
2020-07-06 20:44:31	dctrud	... abuse of cron though :-)
2020-07-06 20:45:14	acdw	oh that's beautiful/evil
2020-07-06 20:45:23	acdw	ine: is that what the Smart Fridges use? I had no idea
2020-07-06 20:45:34	acdw	~install on Temple OS~
2020-07-06 20:45:42	lukee	haha
2020-07-06 20:46:18	makeworld	openssl x509 -in cert.pem -text
2020-07-06 20:46:24	lukee	There totally should be a holyC gemini client
2020-07-06 20:46:30	makeworld	tomasino: There's a good way to display a cert as text ^^
2020-07-06 20:46:38	@tomasino	thanks
2020-07-06 20:46:39	acdw	omg or a brainfuck client
2020-07-06 20:46:41	@tomasino	i have the cert part working
2020-07-06 20:46:44	@tomasino	and the jetforce part working
2020-07-06 20:46:50	@tomasino	now it's openbsd's rc.d that's being the dick
2020-07-06 20:46:54	⚡	acdw claps
2020-07-06 20:46:58	@tomasino	i can run the service manually just fine
2020-07-06 20:47:07	acdw	well how often do you reboot
2020-07-06 20:47:08	acdw	?
2020-07-06 20:47:14	makeworld	kensanata: Your command uses RSA keys though >:(
2020-07-06 20:48:27	dctrud	tomasino - does it just get stuck there, hanging when you start... or something else?
2020-07-06 20:50:09	@tomasino	got it
2020-07-06 20:50:10	@tomasino	yeesh
2020-07-06 20:50:33	@tomasino	i'll write up the whole bloody thing in a journal post now
2020-07-06 20:50:46	@tomasino	happy birthday to me!
2020-07-06 20:51:36	makeworld	openssl req -new -x509 -newkey ec -pkeyopt ec_paramgen_curve:prime256v1 -days 1825 -nodes -out cert.pem -keyout key.pem
2020-07-06 20:51:56	makeworld	kensanata and others, this will use an EC key which is smaller and more modern than RSA
2020-07-06 20:52:11	makeworld	 Solderpunk has mentioned this before I think, about reducing cert size
2020-07-06 20:52:15	kensanata	Thakn!
2020-07-06 20:52:43	acdw	hey tomasino! happy birthday!!
2020-07-06 20:52:50	makeworld	Choosing what curve to use for the key is beyond me, but I just went with prime256v1 because it's what Let's Encrypt has generated for me in the past
2020-07-06 20:52:56	makeworld	Yes happy birthday!
2020-07-06 20:53:01	acdw	what even *are* curves lol
2020-07-06 20:53:33	@tomasino	thanks acdw 
2020-07-06 20:53:38	@tomasino	and makeworld 
2020-07-06 20:53:45	lukee	🎂
2020-07-06 20:53:53	dctrud	happy birthday!
2020-07-06 20:54:15	dctrud	openssl is definitely not a fun birthday activity
2020-07-06 20:55:00	makeworld	Ha
2020-07-06 20:55:41	@tomasino	maybe this thing i write will be useful to other
2020-07-06 20:55:42	makeworld	acdw: complex crypto stuff, used by a certain type of asymmetric encryption
2020-07-06 20:55:56	kensanata	this lousy wifi I'm on really makes me pay for TLS. gopher://mozz.us works no issues; gemini://mozz.us makes me cry.
2020-07-06 20:56:12	makeworld	Like how RSA keys are based off of primes, elliptic curve keys are based off the mathematical properties of certain types of curves
2020-07-06 20:56:45	makeworld	kensanata: Could it be the underlying server speed? I'm surprised TLS would make a big difference. But what do I know lol
2020-07-06 20:56:48	acdw	tomasino: when I get around to hosting my site with like, digital ocean or something (so I can co-host on gemini, etc), it will *definitely* be useful :)
2020-07-06 20:57:24	acdw	makeworld: that is absolutely buckwild. how do people come up with this?! Honestly I bet they have amazing parties
2020-07-06 20:57:32	kensanata	makeworld: it's the initial connect, I think. I'm increasing the elpher timeout from 5s to 20s.
2020-07-06 20:58:20	makeworld	Haha idk if their parties are thaat great
2020-07-06 20:58:23	makeworld	But yeah it's crazy stuff
2020-07-06 20:58:44	makeworld	tomasino: You used the accepted answer here? https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/74345/provide-subjectaltname-to-openssl-directly-on-the-command-line
2020-07-06 21:02:49	⚡	kensanata awaits the next section in gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/tls-tutorial.gmi
2020-07-06 21:03:59	makeworld	Hmm yeah I should read all that
2020-07-06 21:04:48	kensanata	Now I'm reading https://michaelheap.com/self-signed-ssl-client-certificates/
2020-07-06 21:10:54	@tomasino	gemini://black6kfjetfuzaeozz7fs53whh7xtd4e27telrf5fg5kgdt5ah5plad.onion/users/fox/journal/20200706-gemini-on-tor.gmi
2020-07-06 21:11:10	@tomasino	or gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200706-gemini-on-tor.gmi
2020-07-06 21:11:34	@tomasino	no makeworld ... openbsd openssl can't do -addtext
2020-07-06 21:11:37	@tomasino	so i did the next answer down
2020-07-06 21:11:42	@tomasino	but you can see all my code in the write-up now
2020-07-06 21:12:04	lukee	or gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200706-gemini-on-tor.gmi for everyone else not on onion yet!
2020-07-06 21:12:37	makeworld	Oh ok great thanks!
2020-07-06 21:13:27	makeworld	tomasino: Slight error in your post: it's not -addtext but -addext
2020-07-06 21:13:31	makeworld	No "t"
2020-07-06 21:13:42	@tomasino	ahh
2020-07-06 21:13:45	@tomasino	i'll fix it
2020-07-06 21:13:50	@tomasino	it didn't work when i copy & pasted it
2020-07-06 21:13:50	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-06 21:14:31	makeworld	Oh haha so maybe -addext does work on your system?!
2020-07-06 21:14:39	makeworld	Or you mean when you copied it into your post
2020-07-06 21:16:56	@tomasino	it didn't work when i copied the example from stack overflow
2020-07-06 21:17:00	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-07-06 21:17:01	@tomasino	i just typed it wrong in my post
2020-07-06 21:17:18	makeworld	I'm tempted to create a wildcard cert for makeworld.gq
2020-07-06 21:18:33	makeworld	I'm worried some clients won't like it, but it should be okay...
2020-07-06 21:22:26	makeworld	That way I don't need to change the cert every time I want another gemini subdomain
2020-07-06 21:25:51	makeworld	It looks I would need to set CN = *.makeworld.gq
2020-07-06 21:26:25	makeworld	And then -addext "subjectAltName = DNS:makeworld.gq" so that the root domain can also be used
2020-07-06 21:27:44	makeworld	Interesting stuff
2020-07-06 21:29:07	makeworld	openssl req -new -subj "/C=CA/CN=*.makeworld.gq" -addext "subjectAltName = DNS:makeworld.gq" -x509 -newkey ec -pkeyopt ec_paramgen_curve:prime256v1 -days 1825 -nodes -out cert.pem -keyout key.pem
2020-07-06 21:29:14	makeworld	It's a monster, but I think this did it!
2020-07-06 21:30:41	@tomasino	yes, that sounds familiar
2020-07-06 21:31:29		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-06 21:33:40	makeworld	Doesn't seem to work actually, let me investigate...
2020-07-06 21:34:01	makeworld	The command runs but I'm doing some testing and a hostname like "test.makeworld.gq" isn't actually valid for that kind of cert
2020-07-06 21:37:35	makeworld	Alright it turns out you need to have the wildcard asterisk in the SAN (subjectAltName)
2020-07-06 21:38:07	makeworld	Idk if having the wildcard in the CN is good or not, I'm trying to find out
2020-07-06 21:52:30		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-06 21:53:19	makeworld	Google seems to do it for plus.google.com, which is good enough for me
2020-07-06 21:59:19	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-06 22:02:27	makeworld	So this is the command I end up with:
2020-07-06 22:02:28	makeworld	openssl req -new -subj "/C=CA/CN=*.makeworld.gq" -addext "subjectAltName = DNS:makeworld.gq, DNS:*.makeworld.gq" -x509 -newkey ec -pkeyopt ec_paramgen_curve:prime256v1 -days 1825 -nodes -out cert.pem -keyout key.pem
2020-07-06 22:02:53	makeworld	tomasino: Maybe this is helpful? I guess not for your old openssl but maybe in general
2020-07-06 22:03:27	@tomasino	share it with the world!
2020-07-06 22:03:28	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-06 22:06:22	makeworld	Aha I will :D
2020-07-06 22:06:28	makeworld	Gonna write a post
2020-07-06 22:06:34	acdw	aw yisss
2020-07-06 22:06:38	makeworld	After I test it out in production on makeworld.gq!!
2020-07-06 22:06:48	acdw	yall I am loving coming in here and gettin gall these links to read later
2020-07-06 22:06:52	makeworld	:)
2020-07-06 22:08:32	acdw	how does https feel about self-signed certs? will they have scary warnings in browsers?
2020-07-06 22:08:55	makeworld	Yes
2020-07-06 22:09:00	makeworld	100%
2020-07-06 22:09:03	acdw	:( that's too bad
2020-07-06 22:09:09	makeworld	The best solution is to just use Let's Encrypt
2020-07-06 22:09:31	makeworld	I mean it makes sense, because TOFU is not used. Otherwise anyone could just make their own cert and pretend to be any site
2020-07-06 22:10:45	⚡	makeworld afk, eating dinner. Post incoming!
2020-07-06 22:12:27	acdw	yeah that's what I'd do then
2020-07-06 22:12:34	acdw	also yum dinner...i need some dinner
2020-07-06 22:12:38	acdw	oh and that makes sense
2020-07-06 22:15:11	@tomasino	minor update to my tor over gemini post
2020-07-06 22:15:18	@tomasino	i forgot to mention that i set up tor
2020-07-06 22:16:05	acdw	that might be a little important lol
2020-07-06 22:16:30	@tomasino	i didn't really write up much of a howto
2020-07-06 22:16:33	@tomasino	i kinda copped out
2020-07-06 22:16:37	@tomasino	maybe i should write more
2020-07-06 22:16:43	@tomasino	ugh, i guess i should
2020-07-06 22:16:58	acdw	hey you do what you think you need to. it's okay if you don't spell it all the way out
2020-07-06 22:17:11	acdw	if someone is trying to set up a tor site they probably know how to google stuff too
2020-07-06 22:17:24	acdw	(or I guess duckduckgo or like, startpage, if they're setting up Tor)
2020-07-06 22:17:43	@tomasino	i've written about it extensively on gopher already
2020-07-06 22:17:53	@tomasino	i think that's why it bored me to think about writing it here
2020-07-06 22:17:59	acdw	you could set up a gopher mirror!?!?!??
2020-07-06 22:18:02	acdw	hehe
2020-07-06 22:18:15	acdw	that's def less work than just copying and pasting or writing it again
2020-07-06 22:20:45	@tomasino	:P
2020-07-06 22:20:55	@tomasino	i could have linked to the article on gopher
2020-07-06 22:20:59	@tomasino	that would have been easy
2020-07-06 22:21:18	@tomasino	too late now, solderpunk boosted me on mastodon. it's been seen
2020-07-06 22:21:24	acdw	ohyes! utilize Gemini's cross-whatever linking :)
2020-07-06 22:21:32	acdw	🤯
2020-07-06 22:23:45	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/phlog/20180427-gopher-black-on-tor-part-1
2020-07-06 22:23:52	@tomasino	there was a part 2 as well
2020-07-06 22:24:09	@tomasino	and now with onion v3 there's a better program to generate onion addresses
2020-07-06 22:24:12	@tomasino	but there ya go
2020-07-06 22:25:58	acdw	> That's almost words!
2020-07-06 22:26:02	acdw	That's hilariouss
2020-07-06 22:26:51	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-06 22:27:46	@tomasino	the port troubles doing tor over gopher don't exist with gemini
2020-07-06 22:27:55	@tomasino	thanks to vhost support
2020-07-06 22:27:59	@tomasino	so it's WAY easier
2020-07-06 22:28:04	acdw	oh boy... falling into your gopherhole is giving me a lot more reading to do. I don't know if I'm going to find the actual part 2
2020-07-06 22:28:08	acdw	oh that's good to know!!
2020-07-06 22:28:31	acdw	I've never used Tor actually, it's a big mystery to me. I know the basics of like, the request bounces all over the place and it's slow
2020-07-06 22:28:33	acdw	but that's it
2020-07-06 22:28:40	acdw	I guess that's all there is to it really?
2020-07-06 22:28:51	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/phlog/20180428-gopher-black-on-tor-part-2
2020-07-06 22:29:17	@tomasino	it's mostly slow because it bounces all over the place before using an exit node to visit non-onion sites
2020-07-06 22:29:19	@tomasino	BUT!!!!!
2020-07-06 22:29:32	@tomasino	if you're staying within the onion landscape and visiting a .onion site, you don't need all the hops
2020-07-06 22:29:55	@tomasino	the server can set up HiddenServiceSingleHopMode 1
2020-07-06 22:30:01	@tomasino	which says, just use one hop to me. it's cool
2020-07-06 22:30:08	@tomasino	and speeds things up tremendously
2020-07-06 22:30:13	@tomasino	and you're still secure end-to-end
2020-07-06 22:30:34	@tomasino	as long as you never leave .onion land, everything is roses
2020-07-06 22:32:30	acdw	oh that's raad actually
2020-07-06 22:33:26	acdw	do you know how the DNS works? Is it blockchain®?
2020-07-06 22:34:28	@tomasino	distributed hash table 
2020-07-06 22:34:38	@tomasino	onion addresses are public keys
2020-07-06 22:34:50	acdw	oh that's crazy
2020-07-06 22:34:54	acdw	computers are insane
2020-07-06 22:35:05	@tomasino	yep!
2020-07-06 22:35:06	acdw	I love how people just figured that out
2020-07-06 22:35:16	@tomasino	it's fairly ingenious
2020-07-06 22:35:18	acdw	that's actually one thing I'm really liking about being involved iwth Gemini...
2020-07-06 22:35:34	acdw	like, yall just got together and said, "Hey, let's start talking on this channel with these rules"
2020-07-06 22:35:37	acdw	and then ya did
2020-07-06 22:35:45	acdw	and here we all are..well not *here,* but you know
2020-07-06 22:36:10	@tomasino	i'm definitely not here
2020-07-06 22:36:11	acdw	oh wait...so the public key of the address is paired with the private key of the server?
2020-07-06 22:36:13	@tomasino	i'm way over there
2020-07-06 22:36:19	acdw	lolololo
2020-07-06 22:36:34	@tomasino	the public key identity is served up to the distributed hash table by the tor server
2020-07-06 22:36:43	acdw	:O
2020-07-06 22:36:50	@tomasino	when someone wants to connect to it, that's a quickc lookup that maps back to a server
2020-07-06 22:36:58	@tomasino	it's navigated to either dierctly or via several hops
2020-07-06 22:37:01	acdw	holy. crap
2020-07-06 22:37:02	@tomasino	https://community.torproject.org/onion-services/overview/
2020-07-06 22:37:12	@tomasino	this is actually pretty accessible
2020-07-06 22:37:25	acdw	right, like if my server doesn't have the address, it'll be like, "Look over there"
2020-07-06 22:37:30	acdw	lol it's not accessible on my work network
2020-07-06 22:37:40	acdw	I guess they don't want us on Tor for.......some reason?!
2020-07-06 22:38:01	@tomasino	:P
2020-07-06 22:38:05	acdw	I'll add it to my ever-growing list of Links to Read that I Might Not Read Anytime Soon
2020-07-06 22:38:09	acdw	But they're There In Case I do
2020-07-06 22:38:21	acdw	just realized...I should totally make a page dedicated to them
2020-07-06 22:38:44	@tomasino	from this page: " in some sense IP addresses are not even meaningful to onion services: they are not even used in the protocol."
2020-07-06 22:39:03	acdw	🤯
2020-07-06 22:39:07	acdw	wuuuuuuttt
2020-07-06 22:39:31	@tomasino	if i could change one thing about gemini, it would have been to run it exclusively over tor
2020-07-06 22:39:41	@tomasino	all the TLS stuff would be gone
2020-07-06 22:39:49	@tomasino	and it would be even cooler
2020-07-06 22:40:02	@tomasino	but then we wouldn't have badass client cert magic
2020-07-06 22:40:05	companion_cube	and it'd be even slower? :D
2020-07-06 22:40:22	@tomasino	if it were all running as onion services it would be nice and zippy
2020-07-06 22:40:28	@tomasino	single hop mode
2020-07-06 22:40:43	acdw	you should make a gemini-like protocol over tor called.....bunny
2020-07-06 22:40:54	@tomasino	hehe
2020-07-06 22:40:58	acdw	plus I do like the client cert stuff
2020-07-06 22:41:05	@tomasino	do you have tor browser on your current machine?
2020-07-06 22:41:09	acdw	nope
2020-07-06 22:41:24	@tomasino	too bad. you could bust out of your silly office network without issues
2020-07-06 22:41:42	acdw	haha that's assuming they don't have some kind of packet sniffer or something
2020-07-06 22:41:45	acdw	no, they don't lol
2020-07-06 22:41:50	@tomasino	"Is your network filtered and you can't open ports on your firewall? This could happen if you are in a university campus, an office, an airport, or pretty much anywhere. Onion services don't need open ports because they punch through NAT. They only establish outgoing connections."
2020-07-06 22:41:54	acdw	our website doesn't even work if you don't use www.
2020-07-06 22:42:03	acdw	:O
2020-07-06 22:42:11	acdw	okay maybe I'll check it out .. :P
2020-07-06 22:42:15	@tomasino	hehe
2020-07-06 22:42:26	@tomasino	i seriously don't think tor gets nearly enough love for how awesome it is
2020-07-06 22:43:26	acdw	okay you've convinced me. i'll install it this week on my personal laptop, then see if i can get a portable version
2020-07-06 22:43:34	acdw	i'm 99% i can frmo like, portableapps.com
2020-07-06 22:43:59	acdw	i have  a good amoutn of experience using gvim portable at work, and kristall was able to run
2020-07-06 22:44:19	@tomasino	there's always a bootable usb stick with tails
2020-07-06 22:45:15	acdw	Oh I don't want to go that far ... I do need to do actual work at work as well :P
2020-07-06 22:45:20	makeworld	I'm happy Gemini isn't over TOR
2020-07-06 22:45:42	makeworld	Tor is cool, but it would make Gemini more complex and less portable
2020-07-06 22:45:52	@tomasino	hehe
2020-07-06 22:45:54	makeworld	Because you need to have a Tor daemon running
2020-07-06 22:46:06	@tomasino	you would indeed, on the server
2020-07-06 22:47:16	makeworld	But the client too
2020-07-06 22:47:22	makeworld	Which is real issue in my opinion
2020-07-06 22:47:25	makeworld	Right?
2020-07-06 22:48:28	@tomasino	the client would need to run torified
2020-07-06 22:48:30	@tomasino	yep
2020-07-06 22:49:07	@tomasino	in the case of my tilde.black screenshot i ran: $ torify kristall
2020-07-06 22:49:10	@tomasino	that's it
2020-07-06 22:50:22	acdw	but if you want a really lightweight client, say on a phone, it'd be more complicated
2020-07-06 22:50:41	acdw	since tor's its own thing, it's not like TLS which is basically everywhere due to the internet
2020-07-06 22:50:52	@tomasino	yeah, it would have a wrapper layer
2020-07-06 22:50:55	@tomasino	like orbot
2020-07-06 22:51:25	@tomasino	i wonder if gus will spider on tor
2020-07-06 22:51:35	@tomasino	natpen you listening? ....
2020-07-06 22:51:51	makeworld	Ha
2020-07-06 22:52:02	makeworld	She's not online, but who knows what she'll read
2020-07-06 22:52:04	makeworld	oooOOo
2020-07-06 22:52:14	acdw	i mean that'd be cool i think, but i'm not sure if askign users to install tor *and* a client is not too much
2020-07-06 22:52:21	acdw	irc should have an /email command
2020-07-06 22:52:25	acdw	to just /email someone
2020-07-06 22:52:27	@tomasino	yeah, you'd want to bundle your clients with it
2020-07-06 22:52:32	acdw	there's no way that'd be abused
2020-07-06 22:52:34	acdw	hmmmmmmm
2020-07-06 22:52:37	@tomasino	but we don't have that world, so ahh well
2020-07-06 22:52:47	@tomasino	gemini is still super cool
2020-07-06 22:52:55	acdw	be the change you want to see, tomasino. I'll build a bash bunny client
2020-07-06 22:53:00	acdw	it'll be even worse than bollux
2020-07-06 22:53:02	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-06 22:53:19	acdw	i'll call it...... Peter Shottentail
2020-07-06 22:53:38	acdw	b/c every shell-based project *must* have 'sh' or 'ba' in it
2020-07-06 22:53:41	acdw	these are facts
2020-07-06 22:54:47	makeworld	Ha
2020-07-06 22:55:05	cyrus	I recently discovered gemini and I thought it was a really great idea to have that SSH kiosk (ssh kiosk@gemini.circumlunar.space) to try out a client remotely. Does anyone know how this was accomplished on the server-side to allow anyone to SSH into an account and be bound to a single program? (I get maybe setting the user's shell to your custom binary. But how did you allow
2020-07-06 22:55:07	cyrus	passwordless+keyless SSH access?
2020-07-06 22:55:32	@tomasino	hi cyrus!
2020-07-06 22:55:39	cyrus	Hi!
2020-07-06 22:56:06	@tomasino	um, yes
2020-07-06 22:56:32	@tomasino	i'm trying to remember the exact syntax, but you can set up a rule so that anyone sshing in cannot execute any command or get a shell, but instead get piped directly into a program
2020-07-06 22:56:46	@tomasino	i think i've got ssh mastery over there on the shelf somewhere and it goes into it
2020-07-06 22:56:51	@tomasino	pretty sure that's what's going on there
2020-07-06 22:57:07	@tomasino	as for doing it without a key or password, that's an option too, though rarely used for obvious reasons
2020-07-06 22:57:12	cyrus	I've come across restrictedshell and whatnot.
2020-07-06 22:57:12	@tomasino	but pretty rockin' isn't it?!
2020-07-06 22:57:21	cyrus	It really is!
2020-07-06 22:57:27	cyrus	I had no idea sshd could do that.
2020-07-06 22:57:36	@tomasino	you just need to be careful that you can't get to a shell from inside the program itself
2020-07-06 22:57:40	@tomasino	or it's a big security hole
2020-07-06 22:57:41	cyrus	Right.
2020-07-06 22:57:54	@tomasino	usually you want to chroot the account on top of limiting it to a single executable
2020-07-06 22:58:09	cyrus	I'd probably opt for applying an apparmor profile.
2020-07-06 22:58:17	@tomasino	:)
2020-07-06 22:58:19	acdw	I bet you could email solderpunk too...
2020-07-06 22:58:30	acdw	I'm assuming they set it up on circumlunar.space
2020-07-06 22:58:35	@tomasino	yeah, i think he did
2020-07-06 22:58:39	acdw	okay gotta go everyone, it's been rad
2020-07-06 22:58:43		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-06 22:58:47	@tomasino	and i believe he modelled it after bitreich's kiosk for gopher
2020-07-06 22:58:50	@tomasino	ciao acdw
2020-07-06 23:01:59	cyrus	Ah, SSH Mastery is written by Michael Lucas. You know that guy also writes geeky fiction?
2020-07-06 23:02:14	@tomasino	he's an awesome dude
2020-07-06 23:02:17	@tomasino	very active on the fediverse
2020-07-06 23:02:19	cyrus	I read his mystery novel "git commit murder" which was actually a fun read.
2020-07-06 23:02:23	@tomasino	i patreon support him
2020-07-06 23:02:31	@tomasino	there's a sequel coming out to that soon
2020-07-06 23:02:37	cyrus	Really!
2020-07-06 23:02:39	cyrus	Interesting.
2020-07-06 23:02:40	@tomasino	i think it's called git rebase murder, but not 100% sure
2020-07-06 23:02:45	cyrus	Haha.
2020-07-06 23:03:03	@tomasino	ed mastery, savaged by systemd, some real gems
2020-07-06 23:03:09	@tomasino	i have his absolute openbsd too
2020-07-06 23:10:05	makeworld	What's his fedi account?
2020-07-06 23:15:06	@tomasino	@mwlucas@bsd.network 
2020-07-06 23:15:50	styan	tomasino: Yay, I can access gemini://tilde.black over Tor without proxying now!
2020-07-06 23:16:11	@tomasino	yay!
2020-07-06 23:17:13	styan	And localhost too!
2020-07-06 23:17:26	@tomasino	hehe
2020-07-06 23:17:28	@tomasino	YISS
2020-07-06 23:17:36	makeworld	Thanks
2020-07-06 23:18:13	epoch_	if you don't mind using a non-onion domain that CNAMEs to an onion to do tor, you can get a certificate like https would want
2020-07-06 23:18:42	epoch_	like, onion.thebackupbox.net CNAME whatevermyonionis.onion
2020-07-06 23:18:53	epoch_	and the cert is valid for onion.thebackupbox.net
2020-07-06 23:19:05	epoch_	because when you verified it, it was pointing at an IP
2020-07-06 23:19:31	@tomasino	seems interesting. what sort of benefit does that give you
2020-07-06 23:20:05	epoch_	me? not much. wouldn't be hard to find me.
2020-07-06 23:20:15	epoch_	but users could still use https to a hidden service
2020-07-06 23:20:17	epoch_	and be hidden from me
2020-07-06 23:20:31	@tomasino	you don't need https if you're running an onion service, though
2020-07-06 23:20:38	epoch_	I know.
2020-07-06 23:20:50	epoch_	unless they were somehow using client certs?
2020-07-06 23:20:54	epoch_	maybe for gemini over tor?
2020-07-06 23:21:06	epoch_	but then you don't need https-like signed certs anyway
2020-07-06 23:21:09	@tomasino	even then, there's no dns lookups happening at all
2020-07-06 23:21:18	epoch_	I dunno. PoC. don't have a plan for a use.
2020-07-06 23:21:18	@tomasino	and everything's encrypted by tor already
2020-07-06 23:21:23	@tomasino	:)
2020-07-06 23:21:25	@tomasino	well, sounds neat!
2020-07-06 23:21:38	@tomasino	tilde.black is running the new header thing to redirect to tor now
2020-07-06 23:21:53	@tomasino	if you have the latest tor browser and go to https://tilde.black it'll auto-redirect you
2020-07-06 23:22:02	epoch_	I actually don't know if tor dnssec validates its responses before passing them over the tor network to requesters
2020-07-06 23:22:15	@tomasino	it doesn't DNS at all
2020-07-06 23:22:15	epoch_	that might be something I need to look into
2020-07-06 23:22:23	@tomasino	it's a pubkey hashtable distributed thing
2020-07-06 23:22:29	@tomasino	with introducers
2020-07-06 23:22:39	epoch_	it totally does /some/ DNS stuff.
2020-07-06 23:22:41	epoch_	not for .onion
2020-07-06 23:22:44	@tomasino	not for onion
2020-07-06 23:22:50	@tomasino	for non onion, yes, https away
2020-07-06 23:22:52	epoch_	like, if I did tor-resolve some.site
2020-07-06 23:23:03	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-07-06-openssl.gmi
2020-07-06 23:23:03	epoch_	or used the DNSPort option
2020-07-06 23:23:09	makeworld	OpenSSL commands post posted!
2020-07-06 23:23:13	@tomasino	yay!
2020-07-06 23:23:16	@tomasino	thanks makeworld 
2020-07-06 23:23:41	epoch_	the initial lookup of what onion to use would be using the non-onion DNS lookup through tor
2020-07-06 23:24:00	epoch_	the CNAME at onion.some.site to my.onion
2020-07-06 23:24:42	epoch_	so, it would be https over onion, but it wouldn't be a .onion in the URL
2020-07-06 23:25:00	makeworld	tomasino: You're welcome! Hope this helps some people
2020-07-06 23:25:35	styan	epoch_: So, using the DNS system to provide more memorable onion addresses, assuming that the service side of the hidden-service is not actually hidden.
2020-07-06 23:25:35	epoch_	https://onion.thebackupbox.net/
2020-07-06 23:25:46	epoch_	yeah.
2020-07-06 23:26:04	⚡	makeworld afk, see y'all later
2020-07-06 23:26:10	@tomasino	the newest tor version is testing a more memorable dns-esque thing for onions 
2020-07-06 23:26:18	@tomasino	i read about it in passing, but i don't think it's open to all yet
2020-07-06 23:27:53	epoch_	bah. disk filled up..
2020-07-06 23:27:54	@tomasino	i can't find it now
2020-07-06 23:27:58	styan	Neat!  Every time I hear about the technology side of Tor it always feels cool and shiny. :-)
2020-07-06 23:28:16	@tomasino	it was in the same announcement that led me to the header thing
2020-07-06 23:29:10	@tomasino	oh you know what, it's NOT doing it on black because httpd sucks ass and i need relayd 
2020-07-06 23:29:15	@tomasino	i did it on cosmic.voyage
2020-07-06 23:29:19	@tomasino	cause nginx is easy and sane
2020-07-06 23:29:52	@tomasino	add_header Onion-Location http://cosmiclbou7ypgww4lcs4an3z6otqoevqk6q5jcxml7v7geqml7dlyad.onion$request_uri;
2020-07-06 23:29:55	@tomasino	and done
2020-07-06 23:31:15	epoch_	btw, gemini://onion.thebackupbox.net/ works too
2020-07-06 23:31:34	epoch_	or you can use the onion directly if you don't want to use the CNAME :)
2020-07-06 23:31:35	@tomasino	timed out
2020-07-06 23:31:40	epoch_	oh piss
2020-07-06 23:31:52	epoch_	then I think I probably have a hack on my end :/
2020-07-06 23:32:00	epoch_	it worked here (tm)
2020-07-06 23:32:05	@tomasino	ahhh
2020-07-06 23:32:11	styan	tomasino: You *can* install www/nginx if you need something more complicated than httpd.  :-)
2020-07-06 23:32:31	@tomasino	yeah, i probably will, sadly
2020-07-06 23:32:50	@tomasino	i wanted to learn "the openbsd way"
2020-07-06 23:33:06	@tomasino	but the openbsd way is to be an experienced sysadmin and not need basic guides to shit
2020-07-06 23:33:26	@tomasino	i miss ubuntu. :(
2020-07-06 23:33:37	styan	That is the "openbsd way" though, httpd is explicitly not meant to cover every use-case.
2020-07-06 23:33:40	@tomasino	i do stuff on cosmic in seconds and then bang my head against it on black
2020-07-06 23:34:03	@tomasino	yeah, httpd is, sadly, not good enough
2020-07-06 23:34:22	@tomasino	when i found out you couldn't customize the 404 page without recompiling httpd, that was a big red flag
2020-07-06 23:34:37	@tomasino	or the fact that it's in comic sans, cause someone thought that was funny
2020-07-06 23:34:46	styan	The reasoning for not covering every use-case is that you can always install apache or nginx if you need it.
2020-07-06 23:34:51	@tomasino	and comic sans isn't installed on openbsd so they don't see it anyway
2020-07-06 23:35:06	epoch_	weird that it works here. maybe it requires a weird set to work right. :/
2020-07-06 23:38:02	styan	epoch_: tor-resolve here: https://ttm.sh/QY0.net
2020-07-06 23:43:47	epoch_	guess tor-resolve needs a patch
2020-07-06 23:44:03	epoch_	I'm using a transparent proxy, so that might be why it works here
2020-07-06 23:44:27	epoch_	(yes, I read the warnings about transparent proxies)
2020-07-06 23:45:15	epoch_	$ dig +short onion.thebackupbox.net
2020-07-06 23:45:15	epoch_	fgc2df7jssqt7adacvhinvwdjmn4gwfp6fqxczxunw4qtb37554yexyd.onion.
2020-07-06 23:45:16	epoch_	100.114.135.61
2020-07-06 23:45:41	epoch_	(that IP is the range I'm using for IP-mapped domains)
2020-07-06 23:45:55	epoch_	(yes, it is CGNAT)
2020-07-06 23:45:56	styan	tor-browser also times-out for me, probably for similar reasons.
2020-07-06 23:46:02	epoch_	well piss
2020-07-06 23:50:24	styan	tomasino: You are right!  I do not see comic-sans anywhere, I wonder what they add to get it in their presentations then?
2020-07-06 23:59:19	prisonpotato	does ~team cgi not allow file access?
2020-07-07 00:00:34	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 00:00:37	▬▬▶	gambit has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 00:01:28	gambit	do any of the gemini servers support WSGI?
2020-07-07 00:02:32	prisonpotato	is that what its called?
2020-07-07 00:03:25	gambit	yes...https://www.fullstackpython.com/wsgi-servers.html
2020-07-07 00:04:13	▬▬▶	Menchers has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 00:05:01	prisonpotato	it does support cgi tho
2020-07-07 00:05:05	prisonpotato	whats the difference
2020-07-07 00:06:14	⚡	epoch_ requests account on torproject's gitlab
2020-07-07 00:07:10	gambit	WSGI is used with python frameworks (django, flask)....that is all I know
2020-07-07 00:07:18	prisonpotato	huh
2020-07-07 00:07:18	gambit	I typically use uWSGI
2020-07-07 00:07:28	prisonpotato	Im using gemini tho
2020-07-07 00:07:33	gambit	https://uwsgi-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
2020-07-07 00:07:40	prisonpotato	and perl6 instead of python
2020-07-07 00:08:36	gambit	I was just wondering if there was a way currently to build a flask app the servers up a gemini page
2020-07-07 00:09:24	gambit	but seems like the gemini server doesn't have support for it....I saw one gemini server that was written in python, perhaps I could take a stab at forking it and adding WSGI support.
2020-07-07 00:09:29	prisonpotato	i dont think so because flask is a web framework
2020-07-07 00:10:04	prisonpotato	I have a cgi script that isn't working
2020-07-07 00:10:43	gambit	ah, I suppose they are too different then
2020-07-07 00:10:55	makeworld	prisonpotato: What are you trying to do? WSGI shouldn't factor into your CGI script at all I think
2020-07-07 00:10:59	gambit	would have to build a gemini python framework from the ground up
2020-07-07 00:11:16	gambit	makeworld, I think there are 2 convos happening
2020-07-07 00:11:22	makeworld	o.O whoops
2020-07-07 00:11:34	gambit	WSGI is separate from the CGI issue.
2020-07-07 00:11:40	prisonpotato	makeworld: trying to write a cgi script to generate a blog listing
2020-07-07 00:12:00	prisonpotato	does it need to be in cgi-bin?
2020-07-07 00:12:19	makeworld	Depends what server you're using
2020-07-07 00:12:54	makeworld	Where is your stuff hosted, what server is being used? Is it yours or do you just have an account?
2020-07-07 00:14:13	prisonpotato	its on ~team's public_gemini
2020-07-07 00:15:02	makeworld	Ah so tilde.team/~prisonpotato/
2020-07-07 00:15:07	prisonpotato	yes
2020-07-07 00:16:04	makeworld	Well when I click  the gemlog thing I get a "CGI Error"
2020-07-07 00:16:09	prisonpotato	yes
2020-07-07 00:16:14	prisonpotato	thats the problem
2020-07-07 00:16:27	prisonpotato	it works when i ./ it from the command line
2020-07-07 00:16:28	makeworld	Which indicates that the CGI capability of the server is fine, it's that your script is incorrect or broken somehow
2020-07-07 00:16:51	makeworld	Maybe it is not ending with a 0 status code?
2020-07-07 00:17:12	makeworld	Try running this after running the script from the command line: echo $?
2020-07-07 00:17:53	prisonpotato	it looks like the problem is that it isn't in the cgi-bin directory
2020-07-07 00:17:53	makeworld	Sorry if I
2020-07-07 00:18:05	prisonpotato	it's running fine
2020-07-07 00:18:08	prisonpotato	$? is 0
2020-07-07 00:18:26	makeworld	Hmm
2020-07-07 00:18:46	makeworld	And it's printing the correct status code and stuff
2020-07-07 00:18:49	prisonpotato	yup
2020-07-07 00:18:54	makeworld	WIth \r\n ending?
2020-07-07 00:18:58	prisonpotato	yes
2020-07-07 00:19:08	prisonpotato	and I copied it to cgi-bin and it's working
2020-07-07 00:19:11	makeworld	Could be the folder then, idk how it works on tilde.team
2020-07-07 00:19:14	makeworld	Ohh okay lol
2020-07-07 00:19:18	makeworld	Sounds good then! Ha
2020-07-07 00:19:28	makeworld	Welcome to Gemini
2020-07-07 00:19:38	prisonpotato	But how can I get it to work in my gemlog/ directory
2020-07-07 00:24:16		Menchers has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 00:31:27	makeworld	Oh hmm
2020-07-07 00:31:36	makeworld	Sorry I didn't realize that was your issue there
2020-07-07 00:31:56	makeworld	You likely can't. I would talk to tilde.team admins and ask about that, it depends on the server
2020-07-07 00:32:47	makeworld	Gtg now, good luck
2020-07-07 01:10:21		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 01:19:26	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 01:34:53		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 01:50:47	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 02:00:36		gambit has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 04:38:01	ℹ 	yeti is now known as vroomfondel
2020-07-07 05:00:00	ℹ 	vroomfondel is now known as yeti
2020-07-07 05:18:25	▬▬▶	Grim has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 05:22:26		Grim has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-07 06:01:44	▬▬▶	lel- has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 06:13:46		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 06:14:08	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 07:38:32		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 07:39:03	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 07:39:03	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o xq] by ChanServ
2020-07-07 08:13:53		snoe605987 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-07 08:15:01	▬▬▶	snoe605987 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 10:02:22	@tomasino	there we go. now tilde.black has a lovely tor link on the main page
2020-07-07 10:47:40		lel- has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 11:52:26		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 11:54:31	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 12:13:03	ℹ 	andinus is now known as BotBit
2020-07-07 12:19:52	ℹ 	BotBit is now known as andinus
2020-07-07 12:38:49	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 13:54:43		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 15:24:53	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 15:57:25	~tiwesdaeg	so... should I create a 5 year cert for all my server?
2020-07-07 15:57:42	~tiwesdaeg	I've been using certbot because it's pretty easy
2020-07-07 16:18:56	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:26:17	@julienxx	makeworld: thanks for your latest post, very useful!
2020-07-07 16:26:39	acdw	yeah makeworld has been awesome lately
2020-07-07 16:32:36	makeworld	Aww thanks guys!
2020-07-07 16:32:40	makeworld	Glad it's helpful
2020-07-07 16:32:56	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: That's what I would suggest yeah, and it seems solderpunk agrees
2020-07-07 16:33:25	makeworld	I'm waiting until my current Let's Encrypt cert expires on Aug. 30
2020-07-07 16:33:32	makeworld	And then I'm switching over
2020-07-07 16:34:29	makeworld	I don't know what your setup looks like, but I made sure to copy my current certs to a different location, because otherwise certbot would update the cert but put it in the same place, and when I restart Jetforce it would change the cert prematurely
2020-07-07 16:37:08	~tiwesdaeg	I'll still be using let's encrypt for some https on some of my servers
2020-07-07 16:37:25	~tiwesdaeg	I'll just create a new cert elsewhere
2020-07-07 16:39:09	makeworld	Yeah I'm not saying move the cert location
2020-07-07 16:39:46	makeworld	I mean if you want to do what I'm doing, where I use my current cert until it expires, it's *maybe* good to copy the current cert you're using. But I have no idea what your setup is, just sharing what I did
2020-07-07 16:52:31		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		mmmattyx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		audiodude has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		epoch_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		Ernoz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		codingquark has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		siina has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:31		yeti has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		andinus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		dozens has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		snoe605987 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		coleman has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		acdw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		Nalaph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		tuesday has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		sndr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		Sario528 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		pekka20 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		anton has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		hhes has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		wangofett has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		lvgx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		exprez135 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		everbern has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		tadzik has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		dctrud has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		prisonpotato has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		paper_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		drskrzyk has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		xq has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		cyrus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		jbg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		ine has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:52:32		omse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-07 16:53:39		companion_cube has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 16:53:54		dkibi has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 16:53:55		dokuja has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 16:53:59		wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 16:54:18		mk270 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 16:54:20		links has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 16:54:29		obrut has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	tadzik has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	epoch_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	audiodude has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo ben xq] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	yeti has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	ine has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	prisonpotato has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	dozens has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	snoe605987 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	tuesday has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:55:48	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-07-07 16:55:58	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:56:14	▬▬▶	mk270 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:56:37	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:56:41	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:58:48	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 16:59:21	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 17:36:59	@ben	i'm just using my certbot certs
2020-07-07 17:37:08	@ben	never had a reason to _not_
2020-07-07 17:37:22	@ben	i've got a renewal hook to copy it over and fix permissions/ownership
2020-07-07 17:38:47	makeworld	The reason we've been talking about on the mailing list is that switching to 5 year certs will decrease errant TOFU warnings
2020-07-07 17:39:19	@ben	tofu is yummy
2020-07-07 17:39:25	@ben	i haven't been following the list closely
2020-07-07 17:39:28	@ben	but my certs are valid
2020-07-07 17:39:52	makeworld	Yeah it's not really about them being valid or not. Just that they will change much more often
2020-07-07 17:40:21	makeworld	Which can result in more TOFU warnings, or more potential opportunities for an MITM when they expire
2020-07-07 17:40:37	@ben	how would that mitm?
2020-07-07 17:41:21	makeworld	Like when a cert expires, [some] clients will accept new ones, so someone could MITM silently
2020-07-07 17:42:05	@ben	uhh
2020-07-07 17:42:22	@ben	that would have to be a dns attack too then?
2020-07-07 17:42:46	makeworld	Oh yeah or someone at the ISP level. It's not super realistic, just a potential attack vector
2020-07-07 17:42:57	makeworld	They'd have to be able to intercept and change the user's traffic
2020-07-07 17:43:03	@ben	guess so
2020-07-07 17:43:19	@ben	not really in my threat profile but ok
2020-07-07 17:43:38	@ben	plus i have no idea how to make a cert that's not certbot
2020-07-07 17:43:47	@ben	so just going with what i know here
2020-07-07 17:44:04	makeworld	The point is just that the less often certs change, the less TOFU warnings might pop up if you change your cert early. So browsers and users can be more sure that something fishy is going on when there is a TOFU warning. In the current Geminispace, users will just click past a TOFU warning every time, because they happen relatively often
2020-07-07 17:44:22	@ben	huh
2020-07-07 17:44:27	makeworld	Yeah it's not a threat profile most people have to deal with, just preventative
2020-07-07 17:44:49	makeworld	I actually wrote a quick post yesterday with the command for generating a Gemini-approved cert (TM)!
2020-07-07 17:45:00	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-07-06-openssl.gmi
2020-07-07 17:45:29	makeworld	Takes like 20 secs to change to your domain and run it
2020-07-07 17:45:29	⚡	ben read
2020-07-07 18:21:22	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: what about those of us running multiple domains from one server
2020-07-07 18:21:55	~tiwesdaeg	how do you add another openssl string
2020-07-07 18:23:11	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: What specifically are you trying to do? Run multiple domain off one cert?
2020-07-07 18:23:29	~tiwesdaeg	no issues with let's encrypt to do so
2020-07-07 18:23:45	~tiwesdaeg	-subj "/CN=example.com"
2020-07-07 18:23:49	~tiwesdaeg	this section
2020-07-07 18:24:11	makeworld	Yeah that will only work for example.com. But you want a single cert that also works for example2.com?
2020-07-07 18:24:13	~tiwesdaeg	would you just add another like -subj "/CN=example2.com"?
2020-07-07 18:24:16	makeworld	No
2020-07-07 18:24:22	~tiwesdaeg	hmmm
2020-07-07 18:24:28	makeworld	I know how though, one sec
2020-07-07 18:24:43	makeworld	Maybe I'll just add another example to my post, how's that?
2020-07-07 18:24:44	~tiwesdaeg	gemserv does support multiple certs
2020-07-07 18:24:53	~tiwesdaeg	I was just trying to simplify my life
2020-07-07 18:25:05	makeworld	In general multiple certs is the best way to go. But I'll add an example
2020-07-07 18:25:11	~tiwesdaeg	ok, thanks
2020-07-07 18:29:57		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 18:30:14	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: Added to the bottom
2020-07-07 18:30:33	makeworld	Pretty easy to do, you need to have OpenSSL 1.1.1 at least though
2020-07-07 18:31:15	@tomasino	tor!
2020-07-07 18:32:52	makeworld	Ah yes, this is what you did with tilde.black, I see that now
2020-07-07 18:44:39	~tiwesdaeg	well, there's one 5 year cert down
2020-07-07 18:44:52	makeworld	Ta-da! Happy to help
2020-07-07 18:45:12	▬▬▶	tildebeast1 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 18:45:15	~tiwesdaeg	I've been running gemserv, but have been having stability issues
2020-07-07 18:45:37	makeworld	Oh in what way? I don't have experience with it
2020-07-07 18:45:40	~tiwesdaeg	so I installed molly-brown and configured it with the new certs
2020-07-07 18:45:49	~tiwesdaeg	it just sort of stops serving
2020-07-07 18:46:13	~tiwesdaeg	also, the redirects for no tailing '/' break after a while
2020-07-07 18:46:36	~tiwesdaeg	I think it's the only server that does multiple vhosts though
2020-07-07 18:47:09	makeworld	Jetforce does
2020-07-07 18:47:24	makeworld	That's very strange though, that it just degrades over time
2020-07-07 18:48:04	makeworld	For jetforce you have to write one tiny file for vhosts, you can't do it from the command line. But it works very well
2020-07-07 18:48:15	makeworld	tomasin-o just did it
2020-07-07 18:57:28		jan6 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 18:58:12	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 19:04:29	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 19:08:12	@tomasino	i heard that like ruf-ee-ooooh
2020-07-07 19:08:14	@tomasino	hook style
2020-07-07 19:08:58	acdw	now i am vibing to your nick tomasino
2020-07-07 19:09:09	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-07 19:09:15	@tomasino	thank you 4 lettered person
2020-07-07 19:09:21	acdw	:D
2020-07-07 19:09:33	acdw	you're welcome .. 8 .. lettered perseon?
2020-07-07 19:09:48	@tomasino	it was the perfect length for a username for years
2020-07-07 19:09:56	@tomasino	until grad school when they gave me jtomasin
2020-07-07 19:10:03	@tomasino	like, seriously
2020-07-07 19:10:21	acdw	oh shoot yeah, most have to be 8 letters!!
2020-07-07 19:10:39	@tomasino	that's how ben became benharri, i believe
2020-07-07 19:10:48	acdw	I actually have acdw b/c I was going to use my initials (acd) but 3 letters was too few for whatever I was first acdw for
2020-07-07 19:10:57	acdw	oh that's funny
2020-07-07 19:11:08	@tomasino	i figured it was a mashup of ac/dc and darkwing duck
2020-07-07 19:11:12	acdw	my emails in school were jtm611 and acd224, respectively
2020-07-07 19:11:21	acdw	obviously the sam system but it does NOT make snese
2020-07-07 19:12:09	@ben	lol yep that's exactly how it happened
2020-07-07 19:12:15	@ben	bharris and beharris must've already been used
2020-07-07 19:12:17	acdw	that's great
2020-07-07 19:12:35	acdw	now I'm just thinkinga bout better usernames for myself
2020-07-07 19:12:49	@tomasino	i used a few before settling on my last name
2020-07-07 19:12:58	@tomasino	sangue in the early bbs times. also jester, though it was taken a lot
2020-07-07 19:13:00	@tomasino	then apex
2020-07-07 19:13:03	@tomasino	and then aloneone
2020-07-07 19:13:07	@tomasino	and now tomasino
2020-07-07 19:13:10	acdw	ha nice
2020-07-07 19:13:21	acdw	I was mahatman2 in the verrrrry early days of my time online
2020-07-07 19:13:31	acdw	back when I was on the CrunchBang LInux forua
2020-07-07 19:13:35	@tomasino	nice!
2020-07-07 19:13:41	⚡	yeti . o O ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfvLcozLwtE )
2020-07-07 19:13:51	@tomasino	haha
2020-07-07 19:13:51	@tomasino	yes
2020-07-07 19:13:53	@ben	i kinda like just using my firstname
2020-07-07 19:13:59	@tomasino	it's a power move, ben
2020-07-07 19:14:01	@ben	benharri when it's in use
2020-07-07 19:14:03	@tomasino	love it
2020-07-07 19:14:05	@ben	lol
2020-07-07 19:14:12	acdw	yeti: lolol omg
2020-07-07 19:14:17	@tomasino	though... there's my business card
2020-07-07 19:14:22	@ben	> TOMASINO
2020-07-07 19:14:52	acdw	~she likes me for me / not BEcause my nick is tomasino~
2020-07-07 19:16:23	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: are you running vhosts on black or cosmic?
2020-07-07 19:16:43	@tomasino	https://pixfed.com/p/jamestomasino/186195965127036928
2020-07-07 19:17:56	acdw	... the perfect card
2020-07-07 19:18:04	makeworld	Anything on the back?
2020-07-07 19:18:07	makeworld	Lol
2020-07-07 19:18:09	@tomasino	nothing
2020-07-07 19:18:22	@tomasino	12pt garamond, raised ink, double border
2020-07-07 19:18:23	acdw	ohthat's great
2020-07-07 19:18:27	acdw	cream paper
2020-07-07 19:18:40	acdw	wyere'd you order from, if you remember?
2020-07-07 19:18:45	@tomasino	local print shop
2020-07-07 19:18:51	acdw	noice
2020-07-07 19:18:56	@tomasino	this was before there were online business card places
2020-07-07 19:18:57	@tomasino	:)
2020-07-07 19:19:12	acdw	hey the non-online ones still exist; i actually worked for one for about a year
2020-07-07 19:19:18	makeworld	This is reminding of the pyscho business card scene lol
2020-07-07 19:19:38	makeworld	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cISYzA36-ZY
2020-07-07 19:20:04	acdw	yesssss
2020-07-07 19:21:45	@tomasino	that whole movie is so ... that movie
2020-07-07 19:22:55	acdw	o.m.g. I just realized that GUS is named for Gus Grissom (capsule communicator for Gemini 4)
2020-07-07 19:23:06	acdw	tomasino: yes it very much is -- still better than the book tho
2020-07-07 19:23:29	@tomasino	going deep for gemini references
2020-07-07 19:24:05	acdw	yesss
2020-07-07 19:24:31	acdw	I was actually looking it up to suggest another name for glog/gemlog/nilog/minilog/... on Masto
2020-07-07 19:24:40	@tomasino	geminids
2020-07-07 19:24:48	@tomasino	like the meteor shower
2020-07-07 19:24:53	acdw	oh that's good
2020-07-07 19:28:54	makeworld	Hoping to create a GUS stats graph soon
2020-07-07 19:29:34	acdw	awesome
2020-07-07 19:33:07	makeworld	It will probably just be a Python script that parses gemini://gus.guru/statistics/historical/overall and feeds it into gnuplot
2020-07-07 19:33:12	makeworld	Now no one steal it!
2020-07-07 19:33:15	makeworld	Lol
2020-07-07 19:33:24	acdw	haha
2020-07-07 19:33:30	⚡	tomasino steals it
2020-07-07 19:33:39	⚡	tomasino dusts it off, shines it really nice, then returns it
2020-07-07 19:34:14	acdw	:O
2020-07-07 19:35:38	makeworld	Grrr
2020-07-07 19:36:04	acdw	oh lord we're about to ahve a face off here
2020-07-07 19:36:29	⚡	acdw hides behind the thing
2020-07-07 19:39:50	makeworld	Well he returned, it so I can't be too mad
2020-07-07 19:40:22	⚡	acdw peeks out from behind the thing
2020-07-07 19:40:52	acdw	sorry i'm in a weird mood.  i *need* to hack on bollux today
2020-07-07 19:40:55	acdw	but not sure i will
2020-07-07 19:41:02	@tomasino	you need to?
2020-07-07 19:41:04	makeworld	Ha all good! Why not though?
2020-07-07 19:41:06	acdw	TLS has a block n my mind
2020-07-07 19:41:18	makeworld	Oh are you working on adding TOFU?
2020-07-07 19:41:28	acdw	oh yes. that's the thing on my list
2020-07-07 19:41:37	acdw	I'm going to refer strongly to your posts :)
2020-07-07 19:42:04	makeworld	:))
2020-07-07 19:42:15	makeworld	Happy I've written useful stuff
2020-07-07 19:42:45	acdw	me too!
2020-07-07 19:43:15	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 19:56:22		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 20:06:59	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 20:07:21	lukee	hi folks
2020-07-07 20:07:38	lukee	phew - just wrapped up the final details of a new GemiNaut release
2020-07-07 20:07:47	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/7-Jul-2020_GemiNaut_v0_8_6_release.gmi
2020-07-07 20:08:15	@tomasino	yay!
2020-07-07 20:08:17	@tomasino	grats
2020-07-07 20:09:42	makeworld	Nice! It's cool to see the notes in a Gemini post
2020-07-07 20:09:59	makeworld	One error though, it's actually gemget v1.3.0 lukee, not 0.1.3
2020-07-07 20:10:34	lukee	urgh sorry - will fix the blog post, but the email has gone
2020-07-07 20:11:08	lukee	fixed - I knew there was a 1 a 3 and a 0
2020-07-07 20:12:23	makeworld	Haha all good
2020-07-07 20:12:28	lukee	I'll have a stern word with the tech docs dept for next time
2020-07-07 20:12:37	makeworld	😆
2020-07-07 20:12:48	makeworld	Are you the CTO then?
2020-07-07 20:13:02	lukee	and the janitor
2020-07-07 20:13:19	makeworld	Oh also, I'm refactoring Amfora and realized: "561 additions and 385 deletions" o.o
2020-07-07 20:13:22	makeworld	Ha ofc!
2020-07-07 20:14:01	lukee	does Github tell you those stats?
2020-07-07 20:14:58	makeworld	Yeah, when I compare the branch to master
2020-07-07 20:15:06	makeworld	But also it says that for each commit and stuff
2020-07-07 20:15:20	makeworld	But that's just part of git actually, Github just puts HTML around it
2020-07-07 20:15:37	⚡	lukee should get to know git better
2020-07-07 20:16:00	makeworld	Always a good idea!
2020-07-07 20:16:21	makeworld	At least learn how to use branches nicely, even mostly using Github's interface
2020-07-07 20:16:42	makeworld	Although for a solo dev it's not as useful as I thought it would be lol
2020-07-07 20:16:50	makeworld	I just create a new branch and then just work there
2020-07-07 20:16:59	⚡	lukee digs out his Hg to Git incantation cheat sheet
2020-07-07 20:17:39	makeworld	Oho
2020-07-07 20:17:50	lukee	its nice to use a branch for speculative stuff
2020-07-07 20:17:57	makeworld	Yeah that's true
2020-07-07 20:18:17	lukee	My weird workflow involves using Hg on my local machine, then git to sync to Github
2020-07-07 20:18:23	makeworld	O.o
2020-07-07 20:18:49	lukee	it works for me!
2020-07-07 20:19:37	lukee	%dayjob% uses Hg for lots of projects
2020-07-07 20:20:14	lukee	what's coming next in amfora?
2020-07-07 20:22:38	makeworld	We'll have to see lol. I got a bunch of issues lined up. The major feature will probably be downloading. Maybe search in pages, but that looks annoying
2020-07-07 20:22:55	makeworld	The refactor won't affect users much, at most it gets rid of a lot of race conditions
2020-07-07 20:23:22	makeworld	All the v1.3.0 issues: https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3Av1.3.0
2020-07-07 20:23:49	makeworld	Ah wait one sec: https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues?q=is%3Aissue+milestone%3Av1.3.0+
2020-07-07 20:23:55	@ben	lukee: i opened an issue on geminaut to add support for the back and forward mouse buttons
2020-07-07 20:24:02	makeworld	There, the second link includes closed issues
2020-07-07 20:24:36	makeworld	You can also check the CHANGELOG.md file, that's always clearest
2020-07-07 20:24:44	lukee	sounds like you're having fun with text wrapping
2020-07-07 20:24:59	makeworld	Ha yes
2020-07-07 20:25:23	lukee	ben: thanks for that - what is the common convention for this?
2020-07-07 20:25:27	makeworld	Idk how often people will do this, but this release allows you to change your terminal size and have the page rewrap to the new size right away
2020-07-07 20:25:38	lukee	there is a specific button on your mouse for back and forwards
2020-07-07 20:25:48	⚡	lukee has his small mind blown
2020-07-07 20:25:51	@ben	lukee: I'm expecting it to behave the same as in a web browser or windows explorer
2020-07-07 20:26:53	lukee	I've never seen that in action, but I can investigate. What kind of mouse does this?
2020-07-07 20:28:07	@ben	any mouse that has the buttons on the side above where your thumb goes
2020-07-07 20:28:40	@ben	lol https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/56919
2020-07-07 20:28:51	@ben	this came up in the google images results
2020-07-07 20:30:58	lukee	looks like it might be possible: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6371477/how-to-use-back-forward-navigation-button-events-in-wpf-webbrowser
2020-07-07 20:31:47	@ben	nice
2020-07-07 20:31:50	lukee	I added that to the issue
2020-07-07 20:32:22	@ben	cool, thanks for considering
2020-07-07 20:32:35	@ben	i use those buttons all the time
2020-07-07 20:32:36	lukee	involves hooking a low level windows message, which pulling up the hood and rumaging around a bit
2020-07-07 20:33:16	lukee	I've got some other events to start catching like Ctrl+R for reload
2020-07-07 20:33:59	@ben	also re: https://github.com/LukeEmmet/GemiNaut/issues/4 - you might want to look into using .net core 3.1
2020-07-07 20:34:18	@ben	not sure how well wpf stuff works on linux et al but it will supposedly work once .net 5 comes out
2020-07-07 20:34:40	lukee	that would be nice if it is possible
2020-07-07 20:35:25	lukee	the heavy lifting of the pretty display is done using mshtml (MS system html rendering library), I'm not sure if that is ever going to be cross platform though
2020-07-07 20:36:07	lukee	makeworld: before i forget I have a minor bug for amfora to report
2020-07-07 20:36:25	lukee	I dont know if you've seen it before
2020-07-07 20:36:59	lukee	say I have a URL on the clipboard I've copied from an email or elsewhere. If I try to paste it into the address bar, often the content gets truncated
2020-07-07 20:39:45	lukee	For example if I paste in the URL gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/7-Jul-2020_GemiNaut_v0_8_6_release.gmi
2020-07-07 20:40:07	lukee	I get a shortened version thus: https://imgur.com/a/41375XM
2020-07-07 20:40:23	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 20:41:55	makeworld	Hmm
2020-07-07 20:42:04	makeworld	Does it get truncated after you click enter, or before?
2020-07-07 20:42:46	makeworld	But yeah I haven't seen that before, and I paste URLs in all the time
2020-07-07 20:43:54	lukee	I put my cursor in the bar, use right click which should paste it
2020-07-07 20:44:07	lukee	but the full url doesnt go into the buffer.
2020-07-07 20:44:24	lukee	pasting gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/
2020-07-07 20:44:32	lukee	I get gemini://geminom/
2020-07-07 20:45:01	lukee	It seems the front and end of the string survived
2020-07-07 20:45:02	makeworld	Hmm that's very weridd
2020-07-07 20:45:10	makeworld	Happening before you click enter, right?
2020-07-07 20:45:15	lukee	yes
2020-07-07 20:45:36	makeworld	Does it still occur when you use Ctrl-Shift-V, or whatever Windows Terminal paste is?
2020-07-07 20:46:57	lukee	I just tried again with the capcom URL using the terminal window menu which has an Edit->Paste entry
2020-07-07 20:47:00	⚡	makeworld afk for a bit, feel free to keep explaining
2020-07-07 20:47:18	lukee	this time it became: gemini://gemini.ccumlunar.sp
2020-07-07 20:47:37		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 20:47:39	makeworld	I suspect this is an upstream bug with my TUI library, or a Windows bug
2020-07-07 20:47:54	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 20:47:55	lukee	normally this works on Windows
2020-07-07 20:48:03	lukee	so could be TUI lib
2020-07-07 20:49:02	lukee	I'll create an issue in your repo
2020-07-07 20:53:33	lukee	issue created.
2020-07-07 21:04:41	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 21:10:49	makeworld	Alright thanks. I don't have high hopes for it getting fixed I'm afraid, but I'll look into it further. Let me know there if you see any diferent behaviour with future releases
2020-07-07 21:14:30	lukee	will do
2020-07-07 21:31:17		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-07 21:48:50		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-07 22:15:54		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 22:21:48	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 22:43:28		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 22:46:08	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-07-07 22:49:41		wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 22:49:58		Sario528 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 22:50:08		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 22:51:39		jbg has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-07 23:52:59		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-08 01:07:05	▬▬▶	drskrzyk_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 01:08:40	▬▬▶	drskrzyk__ has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 01:09:50		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-08 01:11:01	ℹ 	drskrzyk__ is now known as drsrkzyk
2020-07-08 01:11:37		drskrzyk_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-08 02:20:06		drsrkzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-08 02:22:42		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-08 02:49:51	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 05:38:54	ℹ 	andinus is now known as india
2020-07-08 05:39:10	ℹ 	india is now known as andinus
2020-07-08 06:37:40	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 08:42:58	▬▬▶	user has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 08:46:44		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-08 08:46:51	user	hi! read about gemini a few times in the past and now, the other day, installed a couple of browsers (asuka and castor, as they showed up in the testing repo of alpinelinux), then read a few threads on the list
2020-07-08 08:47:11	ℹ 	user is now known as omni
2020-07-08 08:49:18	omni	pretty excited!
2020-07-08 08:49:23	tadzik	cool, welcome :)
2020-07-08 08:50:07	omni	I could swear I stumbled upon an android client but now I can't seem to find it
2020-07-08 08:50:36	tadzik	there's one but only for google play I think
2020-07-08 08:51:13	omni	oh, I wanted to find a repo and tell the f-droid folks
2020-07-08 08:58:48	omni	there's a client for sailfishOS https://git.sr.ht/~fabrixxm/alrisha
2020-07-08 09:08:00	tadzik	oh sweet
2020-07-08 09:31:10	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 10:43:21	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 11:27:08		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-08 14:07:05		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-08 14:52:12		siina has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-08 14:52:20	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 16:05:32	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 16:07:15		m68k has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-08 16:07:41	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 16:07:49		m68k has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-08 16:08:41	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 17:37:12	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 18:13:48		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-08 18:58:28	makeworld	Adding a bunch of features to gemget today
2020-07-08 19:15:29	makeworld	Nice break from Amfora ;)
2020-07-08 19:16:29	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 19:24:25	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 19:25:35	lukee	hi all
2020-07-08 19:25:48	lukee	makeworld: thanks for the updates earlier
2020-07-08 19:26:09	makeworld	Hey, you're welcome! Using Info strings is fine?
2020-07-08 19:26:12	lukee	I managed to build it and am testing the new flags
2020-07-08 19:26:18	makeworld	I figured it made sense that way bc that's the expected behaviour
2020-07-08 19:26:19	makeworld	Oh ok
2020-07-08 19:27:05	lukee	I just need to be able to definitively determine the download got abandoned and not successful
2020-07-08 19:27:23	makeworld	You're welcome to use it as of that commit! I'm working on reading URLs from a file and maybe even parallel downloading, to include all that in the next release today or tomorrow
2020-07-08 19:27:31	makeworld	Yeah, the Info strings should work fine for that
2020-07-08 19:27:54	lukee	I ran it on the commandline and so far so good
2020-07-08 19:28:08	lukee	however if it abandoned hte download, it cannot seem to delete the partial file
2020-07-08 19:28:19	lukee	Error: Tried to remove konpeito-03-a.mp3 (from URL gemini://konpeito.media/konpeito-03-a.mp3) because the download timed out, but encountered this error: remove konpeito-03-a.mp3: The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
2020-07-08 19:28:39	lukee	I think maybe it needs to release a file handle before trying to delete it maybe?
2020-07-08 19:29:38	lukee	same for -t and -m options
2020-07-08 19:32:11	makeworld	Hmm
2020-07-08 19:32:18	makeworld	That doesn't happen on my computer
2020-07-08 19:32:23	makeworld	What was the command?
2020-07-08 19:32:34	makeworld	And can you verify that the file is still on the disk?
2020-07-08 19:32:42	lukee	gemget --header -t 1 gemini://konpeito.media/konpeito-03-a.mp3
2020-07-08 19:32:47	lukee	yes it is
2020-07-08 19:33:31	makeworld	That's strange... it deletes fine over here
2020-07-08 19:33:36	makeworld	Maybe there's a race condition?
2020-07-08 19:33:40	makeworld	I'll look into it
2020-07-08 19:34:02	lukee	I will do some more testing and let you know
2020-07-08 19:34:14	lukee	I havent tested from inside GemiNaut calling gemget yet
2020-07-08 19:34:31	makeworld	Yeah but that's a bug either way I think
2020-07-08 19:35:32	lukee	do you need to close the io writer?
2020-07-08 19:35:52	lukee	or release it some how maybe
2020-07-08 19:36:37	makeworld	You shouldn't need to
2020-07-08 19:37:02	makeworld	It can't be closed actually, all it can do is write
2020-07-08 19:37:12	makeworld	Hmm maybe I'll close the file though
2020-07-08 19:38:02	makeworld	Try going from the latest commit, and adding f.Close() just under line 88
2020-07-08 19:38:29	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 19:38:33	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 19:39:21	makeworld	Thanks for doing my Windows testing :) Let me know if that works
2020-07-08 19:39:50	⚡	kensanata reads about file locking...
2020-07-08 19:42:22	lukee	there is some discrepancy between the latest version in github and the one I have - I'll get a fresh copy
2020-07-08 19:43:25	lukee	I think I had the one from an hour ago not the latest.
2020-07-08 19:43:34	lukee	I'll do some more tests and let you know
2020-07-08 19:44:47	makeworld	Latest commit is cd27f5c220fdb4d1bcd5b34df1c0ce402ef16c82
2020-07-08 19:45:08	makeworld	But I still think adding the f.Close() thing is the right idea, it's stupid of me not to put it
2020-07-08 19:45:30	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 19:45:33	lukee	yes but your line 88 is not the same as mine until I get the update!
2020-07-08 19:45:45	makeworld	Ah yes
2020-07-08 19:46:27	makeworld	Actually it's line 23
2020-07-08 19:46:42	makeworld	Oh but that won't work hmm
2020-07-08 19:47:33	makeworld	Alright put the f.Close() under line 108, creating a new line 109. And then run the same command with a timeout
2020-07-08 19:47:43	makeworld	Sorry if this is confusing lol
2020-07-08 19:48:39	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 19:49:36	lukee	of network.go?
2020-07-08 19:49:53	makeworld	Yes
2020-07-08 19:50:29	lukee	just to confirm this is what I see
2020-07-08 19:50:34	lukee	108: if err != nil {
2020-07-08 19:50:45	lukee	109: handleIOErr(err, resp, written, savePath, u.String())
2020-07-08 19:50:59	lukee	so add f.Close() before 109?
2020-07-08 19:51:19	makeworld	YEs
2020-07-08 19:51:23	makeworld	*Yes
2020-07-08 19:51:45	lukee	ok stand by
2020-07-08 19:52:04	makeworld	🧍‍♂️
2020-07-08 19:52:52	@tomasino	closing connections is for quitters
2020-07-08 19:52:55	@tomasino	;)
2020-07-08 19:53:19	lukee	Wahey it worked!
2020-07-08 19:53:28	makeworld	Yes!!
2020-07-08 19:53:35	@tomasino	working++
2020-07-08 19:53:55	lukee	I'll try -m
2020-07-08 19:54:01	makeworld	Alright, there needs to be more of those sprinkled into the code. I will do that after I finish with #9
2020-07-08 19:54:16	makeworld	No -m will fail I'm pretty sure, and I know why, it's the same issue
2020-07-08 19:54:30	lukee	yes it does, I guess the fix is similar?
2020-07-08 19:54:37	makeworld	If you don't mind waiting, just let me add them in after I'm done with #9
2020-07-08 19:54:39	makeworld	Yeah
2020-07-08 19:55:02	lukee	ok no problem
2020-07-08 19:55:36	makeworld	Sounds good!
2020-07-08 19:55:47	lukee	one v small thing - the help string for the -m option suggests you have a space before the number and the unit
2020-07-08 19:56:15	lukee	but the space causes a problem. So instead of "2 MB" it has to be "2MB"
2020-07-08 19:57:43	lukee	before -> between
2020-07-08 19:59:06	makeworld	Not if you quote it
2020-07-08 19:59:28	makeworld	That's a command line thing, like you have to quote args with spaces
2020-07-08 19:59:34	makeworld	But I will remove the space from some examples
2020-07-08 20:00:05	lukee	oh ok
2020-07-08 20:00:13	makeworld	And add quotes to the space exmaples
2020-07-08 20:00:26	⚡	lukee doesnt use the commandline as much as makeworld
2020-07-08 20:00:54	makeworld	I don't blame you, being on Windows ;)
2020-07-08 20:01:37	lukee	actually MS pushed out a service/feature pack today and there is a shiny new Windows Terminal app in the appstore
2020-07-08 20:01:55	lukee	it has tabs and everything
2020-07-08 20:02:40	lukee	(but I still get the same problem with Amfora reported before about copy/paste)
2020-07-08 20:02:44	makeworld	Ooh
2020-07-08 20:02:46	makeworld	Oh damn
2020-07-08 20:02:57	makeworld	Do the colours work better though? It looks so ugly on Windows lol
2020-07-08 20:03:23	lukee	can you send a screenshot of what it ought to look like?
2020-07-08 20:03:55	makeworld	You can see the colours on the GIF on the README
2020-07-08 20:04:11	makeworld	https://raw.githubusercontent.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/master/demo-large.gif
2020-07-08 20:06:58	lukee	this is what it looks like
2020-07-08 20:06:59	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/M8R8IcZ
2020-07-08 20:07:13	lukee	looks quite nice, for a command line app ;)
2020-07-08 20:07:51	lukee	I think definitely nicer than before, but that could be my imagination
2020-07-08 20:08:06	lukee	Windows Terminal is supposed to support UTF-8 better
2020-07-08 20:11:02	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 20:14:07	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 20:14:56	makeworld	Thanks haha
2020-07-08 20:15:04	makeworld	Yeah it maybe looks better?
2020-07-08 20:15:17	makeworld	Last I remember the purple for non-gemini links wasn't showing up properly
2020-07-08 20:15:49	⚡	makeworld afk for a while, don't burn the house down
2020-07-08 20:16:21	lukee	it is paler blue for non-gemini and intense blue for gemini
2020-07-08 20:22:58	lukee	I'll catch up with you all some other time, I've got some other stuff to do for now
2020-07-08 20:23:02	lukee	byee
2020-07-08 20:23:10		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-08 20:24:44	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/users/fox/journal/20200708-black-on-samizdat.gmi
2020-07-08 20:27:25	@tomasino	is xq on vacation?
2020-07-08 20:27:34	@tomasino	i've been watering his plant the last few days
2020-07-08 20:41:29	@tomasino	oh shit, mozz has the chatroom using streams!
2020-07-08 20:45:25	@tomasino	xq is there a pattern to match 2 urls for a cert in the manager? It doesn't seem to do regex (...|...)
2020-07-08 20:47:59	@tomasino	eh, nm.. i just made another cert. derp
2020-07-08 20:56:36		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-08 21:15:10	kensanata	Those placemarker icons look fancy!
2020-07-08 21:30:32		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-08 21:40:58	makeworld	tomasino: Nice post! Samizdat is an interesting project, I saw it on fedi recently probably from you ;)
2020-07-08 21:44:46	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-07-08 21:45:36	thewetcrab	OK so I have just found the best thing ever for old internet fans.
2020-07-08 21:45:36	thewetcrab	http://theoldnet.com/
2020-07-08 21:45:36	thewetcrab	I'm currently browsing old websites of local universities and it's amazing to see what they looked like in the 90's and 00's
2020-07-08 21:46:11	thewetcrab	I love on how all these 90s websites that I am looking at, everything is just a text link with no visual clutter.
2020-07-08 21:46:11	thewetcrab	It's almost like we have gone backwards now. That we have to make everything flashy and over produced!
2020-07-08 21:46:11	thewetcrab	I'm noticing something else interesting about the old web, at the bottom of pages is links to other useful websites and external resources. It's not just about keeping you on the website you are browsing for as long as possible, but it about providing useful and relevant information.
2020-07-08 21:51:42	makeworld	Wow what a great site! Thanks, bookmarked
2020-07-08 21:52:11	makeworld	I wonder what it uses in the backend, maybe the internet archive?
2020-07-08 21:59:47	thewetcrab	yes backend is wayback machine / internet archieve api
2020-07-08 22:00:12	thewetcrab	glad I was able to share something interesting with you makeworld :)
2020-07-08 22:01:10	makeworld	Oh nice
2020-07-08 22:01:15	makeworld	For sure! :D
2020-07-08 22:07:20	thewetcrab	Do you make your own websites?
2020-07-08 22:07:33	thewetcrab	With you being in here I imagine you have a gemini or gopher site?
2020-07-08 22:13:17	makeworld	Yeah, I have makeworld.gq on the Web and gemini
2020-07-08 22:13:22	makeworld	More content on Gemini though
2020-07-08 22:27:23		thewetcrab has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-08 22:35:38	@tomasino	gemini is so lovely
2020-07-08 22:35:46	@tomasino	i was diving deep into kensanata's wiki earlier
2020-07-08 22:52:26	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 00:09:18	@tomasino	mozz's reply to my gemini on tor post is great. I was able to clean up my scripts a lot and have a working venv
2020-07-09 00:56:27		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 00:58:52	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 01:30:49	makeworld	Yeah I was happy to see his reply, code looks nice
2020-07-09 01:30:57	makeworld	Very helpful
2020-07-09 01:31:31	makeworld	Idk how messed up your python envs are but I find this very useful for projects tomasino: https://python-poetry.org/
2020-07-09 01:31:44	makeworld	It's the best env manager for Python afaik
2020-07-09 01:31:46	makeworld	GUS uses it
2020-07-09 01:32:14	⚡	makeworld afk, out and about
2020-07-09 01:43:50	▬▬▶	snoe60598787 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 01:43:51		snoe605987 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 01:44:51		snoe60598787 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 02:34:05		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 02:46:48		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 03:44:22	▬▬▶	snoe60598787 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 03:45:51		snoe60598787 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 05:26:07	kayw	so i might be writing a client in Nim in the forseeable future
2020-07-09 05:26:22	kayw	this is a definiate maybe
2020-07-09 05:45:26	▬▬▶	snoe60598787 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 05:46:27		snoe60598787 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 06:25:35		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 06:27:44	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 06:27:45	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-07-09 06:42:57	jan	hi!
2020-07-09 06:45:15	jan	could someone please try to access gemini://jan.bio? I made some changes to the certificate (now letsencrypt), but I'm not sure if it worked
2020-07-09 07:00:48	ine	doesn't a cert change mean clients reject the connection?
2020-07-09 07:10:58	jan	originally i had selfsigned certificates, but kristall gives a warning. so i changed to letsencrypt, which i also use on https://jan.bio
2020-07-09 07:11:07	jan	but maybe this was a bad idea
2020-07-09 07:19:58	ine	gemini strikes me as more of a "your own space on the net" which makes me think the entire thing should be yours, so personally i would use self signed certs over third party ones
2020-07-09 07:20:27	ine	i tried gemini://jan.bio and it works fine on geminaut!
2020-07-09 07:28:15	jan	thanks!
2020-07-09 07:28:56	jan	does anybody know how GUS handles changes of certificates?
2020-07-09 07:45:57	▬▬▶	snoe60598787 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 07:47:26		snoe60598787 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 08:04:15		wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-09 08:06:17	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 08:10:27	@tomasino	thanks makeworld 
2020-07-09 08:15:17	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 08:26:16	omni	ah, there was the android client https://framagit.org/waweic/gemini-client
2020-07-09 08:27:46	omni	found it on gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/ that is more up to date, I guess, than https://gemini.circumlunar.space/clients.html
2020-07-09 08:30:56	@tomasino	yeah
2020-07-09 08:31:02	@tomasino	poor web info gets outdated 
2020-07-09 09:01:29	▬▬▶	snoe60598787 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 09:02:58		snoe60598787 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 09:25:57		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 09:27:06	@julienxx	hi!
2020-07-09 09:27:35	@tomasino	yo!
2020-07-09 09:27:36	@julienxx	tomasino: I get connection issues on tilde.black since yesterday, might be on my side though
2020-07-09 09:29:44	@julienxx	same on port 70
2020-07-09 09:33:14	@tomasino	oh?
2020-07-09 09:33:22	@tomasino	i have been doing lots of things to it
2020-07-09 09:33:24	@tomasino	one sec
2020-07-09 09:33:35	@tomasino	hrm, gemini seems working at the moment
2020-07-09 09:33:47	@tomasino	and gopher
2020-07-09 09:33:57	@julienxx	ok so it's my internet :)
2020-07-09 09:33:59	@tomasino	web is up/down. I'm working on some tor stuff
2020-07-09 10:37:03		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-09 11:02:40	▬▬▶	snoe60598787 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 11:04:09		snoe60598787 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 12:41:36	▬▬▶	grok has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 12:41:43	grok	Good afternoon.
2020-07-09 12:47:49	@tomasino	yo
2020-07-09 12:48:07	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 12:48:07	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-07-09 12:57:37		grok has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-09 13:03:55	▬▬▶	snoe60598787 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 13:05:23		snoe60598787 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 13:17:31	▬▬▶	grok has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 13:51:06	▬▬▶	snoe60598787 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 14:05:06		snoe60598787 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 14:40:17	makeworld	jan: Kristall should not care if you cert is self-signed....
2020-07-09 14:40:29	makeworld	In fact self-signed certs are encouraged on Gemini!
2020-07-09 14:44:23	tildebeast1	hum. when you've created ~/public_gemini, what kind of file to populate it with? .md by default, or...?
2020-07-09 14:45:07	makeworld	.gmi
2020-07-09 14:45:15	makeworld	.gemini also works
2020-07-09 14:45:22	makeworld	Gemini has its own syntax
2020-07-09 14:45:22	tildebeast1	hoo boy. guess I'd better learn the new format :)
2020-07-09 14:45:31	makeworld	Very very simple, don't worry
2020-07-09 14:45:54	tildebeast1	heh. thanks, makeworld!
2020-07-09 14:46:05	makeworld	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/gemtext.gmi
2020-07-09 14:46:10	makeworld	There's an intro
2020-07-09 14:46:27	makeworld	And here's a cheatsheet: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/cheatsheet.gmi
2020-07-09 14:46:54	makeworld	No hardwrapping! That's probably the biggest change lol. Each paragraph should be on *one* line
2020-07-09 14:46:58	tildebeast1	brilliant. thanks!
2020-07-09 14:47:41	tildebeast1	looks remarkably similar to a certain authoring format :)
2020-07-09 14:47:43	makeworld	There's also md2gemini which I wrote. I write most stuff in gmi, but if I want to publish to the web as well I write it in markdown and convert it with that
2020-07-09 14:48:14	tildebeast1	is that installed on team?
2020-07-09 14:48:34	makeworld	Probably not?
2020-07-09 14:48:40	tildebeast1	ah, ok
2020-07-09 14:48:46	makeworld	Idk what you guys are able to do, you just need to install it with pip
2020-07-09 14:48:57	tildebeast1	ok ok, pip isn't a problem :)
2020-07-09 14:49:14	makeworld	If you do end up using it, lmk if you find any bugs!
2020-07-09 14:49:15	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/md2gemini
2020-07-09 14:49:23	tildebeast1	unless I screw up the pip installs between user and system again :D
2020-07-09 14:49:55	makeworld	Oh yeah those are the worst
2020-07-09 14:50:00	makeworld	I just always use --user
2020-07-09 14:50:41	tildebeast1	same here these days!
2020-07-09 14:52:22	makeworld	I've also found Python Poetry for when projects get complex https://python-poetry.org/
2020-07-09 14:52:27	makeworld	It's pretty great it seems
2020-07-09 14:53:28	companion_cube	a solution is to just avoid python altogether… I tend to do that
2020-07-09 14:58:01	makeworld	One of these days Python will get ya
2020-07-09 14:59:26	companion_cube	i actually liked it circa 2008
2020-07-09 14:59:44	companion_cube	but since then I came to dislike both the language and the deployment stories
2020-07-09 15:03:17	makeworld	Gemget v1.4.0 released! Binaries uploading now
2020-07-09 15:03:27	makeworld	Oh yeah?
2020-07-09 15:04:10	companion_cube	seems like the language i rant the most about 😅
2020-07-09 15:04:39	companion_cube	it's slow, ill typed, not *that* expressive, not that simple… and a pain to deploy because you can't just get one binary :p
2020-07-09 15:05:20	makeworld	Yeah, I get all that for sure. Having done a lot of Go stuff now the deployment and lack of typing annoy me
2020-07-09 15:05:34	makeworld	But I still find it expressive and nice for quicker stuff
2020-07-09 15:05:52	companion_cube	for one-file personal scripts, sure
2020-07-09 15:05:57	companion_cube	for production things, I'm not a fan :p
2020-07-09 15:06:18	makeworld	Meh it depends how it's done
2020-07-09 15:06:57	makeworld	Jetforce is written professionally and done well, with typing hints and everything. The end result is that hackers can take advantage of Python and through together an app that uses Jetforce very fast
2020-07-09 15:07:44	companion_cube	yes, zulip is another python thing I like (and they use mypy extensively it seems)
2020-07-09 15:07:59	companion_cube	it just seems a bit late to the party, compared to JS :)
2020-07-09 15:08:27	makeworld	Zulip... the team chat?
2020-07-09 15:08:45	makeworld	Now that is something that my not be best for Python
2020-07-09 15:08:48	makeworld	Lol
2020-07-09 15:08:58	companion_cube	it's all in django I think?
2020-07-09 15:09:12	companion_cube	https://blog.zulip.com/2016/10/13/static-types-in-python-oh-mypy/
2020-07-09 15:09:53	tildebeast1	the only other language i've tinkered with lately is nim. which was interesting enough in its way
2020-07-09 15:10:50	companion_cube	nim is super interesting
2020-07-09 15:11:06	companion_cube	it fixes about everything I dislike in python, I think, except for being really mature :D
2020-07-09 15:34:44	makeworld	I mean you can use zips to pkg Python things somewhat nicely, I forgot about that
2020-07-09 15:35:16	makeworld	It still relies on having the interpreter installed, but it isolates all the deps
2020-07-09 15:36:22	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 15:44:11	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 15:44:38	companion_cube	does the python path handle that nicely? :)
2020-07-09 15:44:49	companion_cube	if python had the equivalent of .jar files that'd be nice
2020-07-09 15:45:15	companion_cube	as in, `python foo.pyjar` or whatever
2020-07-09 15:50:30	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 15:51:17		grok has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 15:52:38	▬▬▶	grok has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 15:52:54		grok has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 15:56:16	@tomasino	yarp
2020-07-09 15:57:53	makeworld	companion_cube: Yeah pretty much
2020-07-09 15:59:04	companion_cube	well one can never have too many ways of packaging stuff
2020-07-09 15:59:17	companion_cube	at least that's what python people think, since they still have nothing standard ?!
2020-07-09 15:59:28	makeworld	Basically you put all the Python files and the project deps into one zip, then add a shebang to the beginning of it. Then Python will run the zip
2020-07-09 15:59:37	makeworld	Something like that, anyway
2020-07-09 15:59:52	companion_cube	wait, can it does that currently?
2020-07-09 15:59:55	makeworld	Yes
2020-07-09 16:00:22	makeworld	Look up zip app or something?
2020-07-09 16:01:57	companion_cube	hu, interesting
2020-07-09 16:02:05	companion_cube	new in 3.5, ok
2020-07-09 16:03:54	makeworld	It could do it as far back as Python 2
2020-07-09 16:04:30	makeworld	stackoverflow.com/a/3763360
2020-07-09 16:04:50	makeworld	zipapp is just the new Python tool for managing this process
2020-07-09 16:05:32	companion_cube	I guess the problem is that a lot of python code relies on C extensions, anyway, so you'd have to package these (or the .so)
2020-07-09 16:06:22	acdw	whaaa that is so wild
2020-07-09 16:06:28	acdw	I kind of love abusing zips
2020-07-09 16:07:42	companion_cube	I mean it's already what java does with .jar
2020-07-09 16:07:53	makeworld	Yeah C stuff would be harder
2020-07-09 16:07:53	companion_cube	but it's nice that python has that for pure python programs
2020-07-09 16:07:58	makeworld	Yeah it's pretty cool
2020-07-09 16:11:48	acdw	oh I didn't know that about java, that IS cool
2020-07-09 16:12:05	companion_cube	a .jar is a .zip with a bunch of .class files
2020-07-09 16:12:10	companion_cube	(and sometimes the sources, as well)
2020-07-09 16:17:13	makeworld	I kinda wish .tar.gz became the standard instead of zips, but oh well
2020-07-09 16:17:36	companion_cube	tar.zst please
2020-07-09 16:17:56	makeworld	Ha yeah that too, but I understand why that didn't become the standard, it wasn't around
2020-07-09 16:18:32	companion_cube	I guess .zip files are the most universally understood format
2020-07-09 16:18:41	companion_cube	.tar files are not that common on windows, for example, afaik
2020-07-09 16:21:06	makeworld	Yeah
2020-07-09 16:21:19	acdw	.tar.zip.gz.bz2
2020-07-09 16:21:58	companion_cube	zstd, however, is just super good, it's impressive
2020-07-09 16:24:07	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 16:28:02	login	zst?
2020-07-09 16:28:22	makeworld	Yeah, it's a new compression format from Google, quickly gaining adoption
2020-07-09 16:28:25	login	.rar gang?
2020-07-09 16:28:31	makeworld	Facebook, my bad
2020-07-09 16:28:38	makeworld	zstandard is its full name
2020-07-09 16:28:45	makeworld	https://facebook.github.io/zstd/
2020-07-09 16:28:49	login	when released?
2020-07-09 16:28:54	makeworld	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zstandard
2020-07-09 16:29:02	makeworld	Jan 2015
2020-07-09 16:29:08	makeworld	That was the first release, anyway
2020-07-09 16:29:22	makeworld	Free software as of Aug 2016
2020-07-09 16:30:11	companion_cube	it's now used on archlinux for packages
2020-07-09 16:30:16	companion_cube	and it's impressively fast
2020-07-09 16:30:59	makeworld	Yes, it increased decompression time on Arch by 1300%
2020-07-09 16:31:05	makeworld	That's not at typo
2020-07-09 16:31:20	companion_cube	compression is also super fast, and much better than gzip
2020-07-09 16:31:36	m68k	whoa
2020-07-09 16:34:25	kensanata	I was toying around with gzip, bzip2 and xz for Gemini Wiki data download and opted for .tar.gz – I don't think people are going to use it often and if they do it's going to be important for them not to struggle with the installation of extra libraries.
2020-07-09 16:34:55	kensanata	But yeah, at one point I read a comparison of those three and the Facebook code and it seemed pretty impressive!
2020-07-09 16:45:31	makeworld	.tar.gz is fine. I think it's great you have the download at all
2020-07-09 16:49:19	omni	I just cago built ncgopher in termux, nice!
2020-07-09 16:50:00	companion_cube	.tar.gz is perfectly fine for downloading stuff
2020-07-09 16:50:14	companion_cube	zstd is more bleeding edge, is just very nice for personal use (or in distros)
2020-07-09 16:52:02	makeworld	I see it as nice for wide deployments where the client env. is somewhat controlled
2020-07-09 16:52:05		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-09 16:52:14	makeworld	Like if your videogame downloads updates for itself
2020-07-09 16:53:24	companion_cube	yeah, whenever you have reasonable control over both ends :)
2020-07-09 16:54:29	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 16:55:23	kensanata	The only thing that's left on my Gemini Wiki todo list seems to be those pesky client certificates.
2020-07-09 16:56:02	kensanata	Then I can restrict editing of certain wikis to known client certificates.
2020-07-09 16:56:28	kensanata	And with that, it's time for dinner. Talk to you all later. :)
2020-07-09 16:56:36		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-09 17:46:00		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 17:47:52		epoch_ has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-09 17:52:39	▬▬▶	hind4 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 17:54:36	hind4	Hi. Does the specification require that <META> have a value? I.E. Could it be left empty?
2020-07-09 18:05:18		hind4 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 18:08:34	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 18:26:48		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 19:13:33	gohan	META is not required for all requests.
2020-07-09 19:13:49	gohan	"If <META> is an empty string, the MIME type MUST default to "text/gemini; charset=utf-8". The text/gemini media type is defined in section 5."
2020-07-09 19:19:48	gohan	The use the word MAY in the specification. This means optional. see https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
2020-07-09 19:23:10	gohan	ow they left.
2020-07-09 19:38:14	dkibi	oh no kristall lost my configuration
2020-07-09 19:41:07	dkibi	ah
2020-07-09 19:41:35	dkibi	i had an old build and that created a new old config and then when i started the new build it merged from the new old config over that
2020-07-09 19:42:03	ℹ 	lel is now known as |
2020-07-09 19:42:07	ℹ 	| is now known as lel
2020-07-09 19:48:59	dkibi	oh no I don't know how to ascii art: gemini://otrn.org/test/labyrinth2.py
2020-07-09 19:55:19	~tiwesdaeg	dkibi: I got lost and ended up in the back storeroom of a Walmart
2020-07-09 19:55:29	~tiwesdaeg	I must have taken a wrong turn in the hallway
2020-07-09 19:57:16	@tomasino	oops
2020-07-09 20:02:07	dkibi	:P
2020-07-09 20:08:05	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 20:10:04	⚡	kensanata presents his client certificates
2020-07-09 20:13:06	dkibi	is this slow for any of you?
2020-07-09 20:14:39	@tomasino	kensanata!
2020-07-09 20:14:45	@tomasino	i adore your gemini wiki
2020-07-09 20:15:00	@tomasino	i just hop around random links now
2020-07-09 20:15:03	@tomasino	follow your tags
2020-07-09 20:16:47	kensanata	tomasino: Thanks!
2020-07-09 20:17:50	kensanata	tomasino: you mean, my wiki/blog? I always wonder how it would feel for somebody who discovers it. It goes back so far that I'm usually just scratching the surface myself, going back maybe half a year or so.
2020-07-09 20:18:35	kensanata	tomasino: Also interesting to think that the Gopher interface didn't seem to be as compelling.
2020-07-09 20:18:57	@tomasino	line wrapping
2020-07-09 20:19:02	@tomasino	it was all about the line wrapping
2020-07-09 20:19:10	kensanata	Ah, that's right. You said as much somewhere...
2020-07-09 20:19:19	@tomasino	but now gemini is PERFECt
2020-07-09 20:19:33	@tomasino	goldilocks-style
2020-07-09 20:19:34	kensanata	Perhaps the disentangling of the inline links was also a good idea.
2020-07-09 20:19:45	@tomasino	oh yes, that was also tremendous
2020-07-09 20:19:57	@tomasino	trying to read markdown links gets tedious in a wiki
2020-07-09 20:20:25	@tomasino	i just find this really enjoyable. So many of your interests overlap with mine, so it's easy to get lost in there
2020-07-09 20:20:30	kensanata	Also, the UI solution I have for Gopher where ever wiki page is basically a menu with all the links, including the link to the text... that was cumbersome.
2020-07-09 20:20:48	@tomasino	there were a few challenges i ran into with your gopher version
2020-07-09 20:20:49	kensanata	Except for Monarchism... :D
2020-07-09 20:21:05	@tomasino	had to follow 2 links to get to content, the RSS feed would show edited pages back up as new ones
2020-07-09 20:21:09	@tomasino	and line length
2020-07-09 20:21:44	@tomasino	not sure about the RSS, but the way it comes through now with Capcom is great
2020-07-09 20:22:23	kensanata	I'm happy to hear it. :)
2020-07-09 20:23:23	makeworld	dkibi: Nice CGI script?
2020-07-09 20:23:25	makeworld	*!
2020-07-09 20:23:46	@tomasino	does michael ever come hang in here?
2020-07-09 20:23:59	makeworld	I wish he did, but no, I've never seen him
2020-07-09 20:24:04	@tomasino	i know he's got a login squatting on tilde.town, but i don't recall the nick here
2020-07-09 20:24:11	@tomasino	too bad
2020-07-09 20:24:14	makeworld	I've been meaning to email him with a Jetforce compliment
2020-07-09 20:24:16	makeworld	Yeah
2020-07-09 20:24:40	@tomasino	jetforce is serving me quite well, and since the venv & rcd reccos i feel much better about it
2020-07-09 20:25:22	@tomasino	i'm tempted to also run kensanata's wiki code
2020-07-09 20:25:33	@tomasino	but maybe it would be better on cosmic
2020-07-09 20:26:07	@tomasino	i could use nginx to reverse proxy the web parts from a rando port to https://cosmic.voyage/wiki/
2020-07-09 20:26:19	@tomasino	and then let people do their actual business in gemini
2020-07-09 20:26:22	@tomasino	hmmmmm
2020-07-09 20:26:26	@tomasino	ideas
2020-07-09 20:26:26	kensanata	Heh.
2020-07-09 20:26:51	@tomasino	i mean, i'm already serving cosmic content on 1965, so i'd have to run the wiki on another port
2020-07-09 20:26:55	@tomasino	or a subdomain!
2020-07-09 20:27:00	kensanata	Let me know if you need some features. Currently the web UI has no CSS...
2020-07-09 20:27:19	@tomasino	let me try to get my head around it a bit more
2020-07-09 20:27:27	kensanata	tomasino: If I understand it correctly, just a subdomain isn't enough: it still has to have a separte port?
2020-07-09 20:27:31	@tomasino	if you need CSS that's something in my skillset to actually contrubute
2020-07-09 20:27:43	@tomasino	well, hrm
2020-07-09 20:28:02	@tomasino	jetforce can vhost on the same port to different domains, but this would be serving two different gemini daemons
2020-07-09 20:28:10	@tomasino	so i guess it would have to do some port shenanigans
2020-07-09 20:28:23	kensanata	Exactly my problem on alexschroeder.ch... to many different services!
2020-07-09 20:28:45	@tomasino	gonna help this kid nagging me for dessertr
2020-07-09 20:28:46	@tomasino	back in a bit
2020-07-09 20:28:52	kensanata	CU
2020-07-09 20:31:48	@tomasino	We need something to sit above different server daemons and pass traffic to them
2020-07-09 20:32:00	@tomasino	But that doesn't really work
2020-07-09 20:32:42	@tomasino	Reverse proxy functions, perhaps? Hmm
2020-07-09 20:35:29	@tomasino	Gah, over my head. 
2020-07-09 20:35:42	@tomasino	Oh, oh oh oh
2020-07-09 20:35:47	@tomasino	Redirects!
2020-07-09 20:36:37	@tomasino	Run wiki.cosmic.voyage on jetforce but just have it redirect to 1970 or something where the gwiki is running
2020-07-09 20:37:09	@tomasino	Even better if I can wildcard redirect and keep the path intact
2020-07-09 20:38:06	@tomasino	I'll look into that. New cert for cosmic, add a came, 
2020-07-09 20:38:10	@tomasino	Cname
2020-07-09 20:38:20	@tomasino	Yesssssss
2020-07-09 20:38:59	@tomasino	Then I'll need to read up on how you handle access rights
2020-07-09 20:41:23	kensanata	I have one redirect in place, that's true.
2020-07-09 20:41:44	kensanata	And I wrote a "dispatcher" (a reverse proxy) but decided the idea was rubbish.
2020-07-09 20:42:37	kensanata	Basically the reverse proxy is a man-in-the-middle, removing and adding TLS to the "backend" and I thought it was weird and brittle and only made sense in a world where people are afraid of port numbers.
2020-07-09 20:42:54	kensanata	As for access rights: right now everything is public.
2020-07-09 20:43:35	kensanata	I haven't found good documentation that tells me how to setup server and client certs using openssl such that I could work on it.
2020-07-09 20:45:55	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-09 20:50:36	@tomasino	Gotcha
2020-07-09 20:51:00	@tomasino	It's something!
2020-07-09 21:09:32	tuesday	hello from my kindle!
2020-07-09 21:09:48	tuesday	i
2020-07-09 21:10:33	tuesday	need a gemini client for kindle
2020-07-09 21:17:03	kensanata	Haha
2020-07-09 21:17:10	kensanata	Very cool.
2020-07-09 21:17:42	kensanata	I'm currently trying to follow along https://jamielinux.com/docs/openssl-certificate-authority/index.html
2020-07-09 21:23:35	makeworld	kensanata: Pretty sure that doesn't apply to Gemini
2020-07-09 21:23:50	makeworld	For both client and server certs there isn't really need for a CA
2020-07-09 21:24:39	~tiwesdaeg	I ended up logging in to tilde.pink and used bombadillo
2020-07-09 21:25:22	~tiwesdaeg	Sort of awkward
2020-07-09 21:25:44	makeworld	What do you mean?
2020-07-09 21:26:31	kensanata	makeworld: When I just created "certs" and told my client to supply these as client certs, I couldn't get any info from them on the server side. When I asked around, I was told that the server can only "validate" the client cert if they're something-something...
2020-07-09 21:28:23		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-09 21:30:14	kensanata	As in: "Well how will your client/server know how to trust each other? You need to import the CA certificate."
2020-07-09 21:30:48	kensanata	And: 'I think this is the error in your expectations: client certs still need to be signed by the same CA as the server cert: they use the (singular, Authoritative) CA to mutually authenticate one another. It's no longer a "client-cert" if you're self-signing each peer; there may be a way to implement p2p certification, but client-certification isn't it.'
2020-07-09 21:31:17	kensanata	So here I am, trying to decide what it is that I even have to do.
2020-07-09 21:32:08	kensanata	I started that thread with "What I cannot do is use a client certificate with a common name set and retrieve that on the server side. It's either not there, or if I enable client cert verification, I can no longer connect with my self signed cert."
2020-07-09 21:43:55	kensanata	The library I use has a pretty good introduction to the concepts so I'd love to know where I am wrong. https://metacpan.org/pod/IO::Socket::SSL#Essential-Information-About-SSL/TLS
2020-07-09 21:44:09	kensanata	Then again, I also have to go to bed...
2020-07-09 21:44:12	kensanata	Another day!
2020-07-09 21:44:18	makeworld	Hmm
2020-07-09 21:44:28	makeworld	Look at astrobotany.mozz.us for reference
2020-07-09 21:44:37	kensanata	This is me, failing on at least three occasions to make sense of client certs.
2020-07-09 21:44:37	makeworld	It doesn't require signing
2020-07-09 21:44:52	kensanata	Hm.
2020-07-09 21:45:33	makeworld	My understanding is that client certs are just regular certs
2020-07-09 21:45:35	kensanata	I don't quite remember how I got my cert.pem and key.pem ... didn't mozz.us have to sign something I created?
2020-07-09 21:45:39	makeworld	Hold on, give me a sec
2020-07-09 21:46:51	makeworld	Alright so I'm pretty sure client certs are just regular self-signed certs, like Gemini servers use
2020-07-09 21:47:36	makeworld	If you are trying to "validate" client certs, there are a few ways
2020-07-09 21:47:37	kensanata	Hm. In that case, can I generate a self-signed cert for the commonname makeworld and water your plant?
2020-07-09 21:47:59	kensanata	How does astrobotany know that only your cert is the correct one?
2020-07-09 21:48:29	makeworld	No, because I already have the name. It hashes or stores the cert, then checks that db
2020-07-09 21:48:37	makeworld	Like TOFU sort of
2020-07-09 21:49:23	makeworld	So you can't "log in" as me, because it will look up the hash for the name makeworld, and see your custom cert doesn't match
2020-07-09 21:50:37	makeworld	If you're trying to limit who can edit certain parts of a wiki, I'd say there's two ways. One is you manually add the hash to a file/db for each person, which is totally good
2020-07-09 21:50:44	kensanata	makeworld: So when your client cert expires, it's first come first serve again...
2020-07-09 21:50:55	makeworld	Not necessarily
2020-07-09 21:51:13	makeworld	It depends on how you want to do it, we don't have standards for this in Gemini yet
2020-07-09 21:51:18	kensanata	OK.
2020-07-09 21:51:24	makeworld	You could choose not to care about the cert expiry at all
2020-07-09 21:51:35	makeworld	I think that's what Astrobotany does??
2020-07-09 21:51:48	makeworld	Like there's no reason the server has to do look at that
2020-07-09 21:51:53	makeworld	*to look
2020-07-09 21:51:57	kensanata	I think my first problem is that my library on the server side doesn't appear to give me any info on the client cert because it only requests it if I try to validate it and I can't validate self-signed certs.
2020-07-09 21:52:48	kensanata	At least that was my take away when the naive implementation (which sounds totally compatible with what you're saying) just didn't work.
2020-07-09 21:52:56	makeworld	Ah, yeah that could be an issue
2020-07-09 21:53:34	makeworld	That's more a library issue though, maybe there's a way to work around it? The path of CAs you're going down is more complex and less compatible with other client cert ideas people have talked about
2020-07-09 21:53:45	makeworld	What's the library?
2020-07-09 21:54:00	kensanata	https://metacpan.org/pod/IO::Socket::SSL
2020-07-09 21:54:10	makeworld	Oh for perl then?
2020-07-09 21:54:14	kensanata	Yeah.
2020-07-09 21:54:33	kensanata	I'm looking at the SSL_verify_mode option.
2020-07-09 21:55:34	kensanata	This sounds promising: "If the validation fails because the certificate is self-signed and that's what you expect, you can use the SSL_fingerprint option to accept specific leaf certificates by their certificate or pubkey fingerprint."
2020-07-09 21:56:09	makeworld	That sounds like a client thing?
2020-07-09 21:56:54	makeworld	Like it sounds like it's referring to the server cert
2020-07-09 21:58:09	makeworld	Tbh it looks like if you want to do client certs in a nice way you might have to switch languages
2020-07-09 21:58:12	makeworld	Yikes
2020-07-09 21:58:14	kensanata	My reading of the entire text was that it's basically symmetrical, except that SSL_verify for client code is set to SSL_VERIFY_PEER.
2020-07-09 21:58:37	makeworld	Yeah, I'm not sure about what I said. No harm in trying!
2020-07-09 21:58:53	makeworld	But having to set a specific fingerprint doesn't really work for the client cert
2020-07-09 21:59:12	makeworld	Because you want to be able to accept any client cert, and then validate separately
2020-07-09 22:00:40	kensanata	Maybe this can be delayed.
2020-07-09 22:01:04	kensanata	"SSL_verifycn_scheme: The scheme is used to correctly verify the identity inside the certificate by using the hostname of the peer. … If you are really sure, that you don't want to verify the identity using the hostname you can use 'none' as a scheme. In this case you'd better have alternative forms of verification, like a certificate fingerprint or do a manual verification later by calling verify_hostname yourself."
2020-07-09 22:01:32	makeworld	If the feature is symmetrical, then yeah that sounds good
2020-07-09 22:01:49	kensanata	But yeah, it all sounds like super major pain and I'm going to bed now...
2020-07-09 22:02:09		kensanata has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-07-10 01:34:25	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 02:16:57		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-10 04:05:35	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 04:05:45	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 04:07:14		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-10 04:07:46	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 04:12:37	luna	greetings! hopefully this is working right...
2020-07-10 04:12:58	drskrzyk	irc or something else? if the first, then hello :D
2020-07-10 04:13:39	luna	yeah, irc
2020-07-10 04:15:59	luna	never bothered to try using it until now, but it seemed well worth trying :>
2020-07-10 04:16:03	epoch	Hi
2020-07-10 04:16:44	epoch	IRC is like twitter, but a whole lot less javascript
2020-07-10 04:20:53	luna	the structure so far reminds me of discord communities without any the nonsense, i love it
2020-07-10 04:24:50	epoch	:)
2020-07-10 04:27:52	omni	also, you can join hashtags
2020-07-10 04:33:23	drskrzyk	welcome, luna :D
2020-07-10 04:34:01	drskrzyk	irc is the gopher of chat. discord is the electron infested trainwreck. err, I mean http+blah+blah
2020-07-10 04:35:46	epoch	what's the talk protocol then?
2020-07-10 04:35:57	epoch	uucp?
2020-07-10 04:38:25	drskrzyk	nah that'd be more a mail equiv maybe? anyhow, it's cool. I love irc
2020-07-10 04:38:47	drskrzyk	been using it since the ink on the rfc was still wet :D
2020-07-10 04:39:12	epoch	the first RFC for it?
2020-07-10 04:39:48	drskrzyk	idk - I remember it being around 1991-2, whichever hit the streets around then.
2020-07-10 04:39:58	drskrzyk	istr it being around 92/93 it was formalized.
2020-07-10 04:41:00	epoch	rfc1459 is from May 1993
2020-07-10 04:41:10	drskrzyk	okay.
2020-07-10 04:41:39	epoch	I first got on IRC in like, 2003 or 4 maybe
2020-07-10 04:42:29	epoch	luckily not /everything/ put on the internet is permanent.
2020-07-10 04:44:11	luna	irc really does seem like the gopher of chat, old but really reliable
2020-07-10 04:50:33	@ben	it's mostly bulletproof
2020-07-10 04:50:51	@ben	discord text chat is modeled after it
2020-07-10 04:52:50	drskrzyk	it def has that feel with... "woowoowo we're so clever" and Electron bolted onto it.
2020-07-10 04:53:34	drskrzyk	the branding (which I think they're changing up) made me a bit nauseated. They try and sound cute and gamer-y and it comes off as "Hello, fellow kids!"
2020-07-10 04:53:46	drskrzyk	But, I am off topic :D
2020-07-10 04:54:12	drskrzyk	errr... if someone does an irc to gemini bridge, I'll cry?
2020-07-10 04:55:14	luna	as in being able to post to irc from gemini?
2020-07-10 04:57:58	omni	as long as clients don't quote what people reply to...
2020-07-10 04:58:26	luna	also yeah, discord's branding in the past always felt like a missed opportunity to advertise it for general-purpose use compared to "for gamers and other stuff too i guess"
2020-07-10 04:58:29	luna	they do seem to be adopting it now though
2020-07-10 04:59:08	drskrzyk	luna: I was mostly making a joke about there was mad push to web-ify every protocol out there. NNTP turned into web forums, webchat, etc. etc.etc.
2020-07-10 04:59:21	drskrzyk	I doubt gemini would suffer from that.
2020-07-10 04:59:51	luna	ah, i see lol
2020-07-10 05:13:20	luna	i've always had a "right tool for the job" mindset when it comes to application layer protocols, too many things just seem to use http(s) when there's probably a better solution out there
2020-07-10 05:14:59	epoch	like websockets?
2020-07-10 05:15:05	epoch	:>
2020-07-10 05:15:21	epoch	http over websockets when?
2020-07-10 05:15:44	luna	lmao
2020-07-10 05:15:58	epoch	looks kind of like people have done that already.
2020-07-10 05:16:35	epoch	nvm.
2020-07-10 05:17:55	omni	DOG - DNS over Gemini
2020-07-10 05:41:09	luna	anyways, i should probably go get some sleep soon
2020-07-10 05:41:15	luna	it was really nice meeting all of you!!
2020-07-10 05:42:22		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-10 06:42:43		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-10 12:13:01	wgreenhouse	luna: I never know how to feel about foss projects whose main support channel is a discord thing
2020-07-10 12:16:22	omni	at least it's not slack?
2020-07-10 12:27:25	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 13:13:30	companion_cube	how is it better? :)
2020-07-10 13:24:58	⚡	yeti still hasnt found how to complain at such projects using discord, fb or such
2020-07-10 13:45:03		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-10 13:48:06	drskrzyk	loudly?
2020-07-10 13:57:24	yeti	where?
2020-07-10 13:57:42	yeti	without FB or discord account...
2020-07-10 13:58:14	yeti	ok... sometimes a comment when a project in hackaday points to their FP pages...
2020-07-10 13:59:25	yeti	OSS should be more aggressive about projects communicating thru "closed" channels
2020-07-10 16:03:16	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 16:04:04	makeworld	acdw: What's good
2020-07-10 16:08:22	acdw	hey ey!
2020-07-10 16:08:26	acdw	editing some videos for work
2020-07-10 16:08:35	acdw	...my laptop has frozen lol
2020-07-10 16:08:37	acdw	soooooo
2020-07-10 16:08:39	acdw	that's not great
2020-07-10 16:08:43	acdw	how are you makeworld?
2020-07-10 16:08:53	makeworld	Ha good luck
2020-07-10 16:08:56	makeworld	Not bad, not bad
2020-07-10 16:09:02	makeworld	It's been very hot in Toronto
2020-07-10 16:09:37	makeworld	All today looks to be nice
2020-07-10 16:09:43	makeworld	Working on downloads in Amfora
2020-07-10 16:10:36	acdw	oh nice! It's been vv hot in Louisiana too. and HUMID
2020-07-10 16:11:02	makeworld	Yes so much humidity
2020-07-10 16:13:58	acdw	it's GR8
2020-07-10 16:14:37	makeworld	Enhh
2020-07-10 16:16:57	acdw	I used to live in Flagstaff AZ which was great. The hottest it got in summer was...85F ? (30C)
2020-07-10 16:17:05	acdw	and it was dry. a light breeze
2020-07-10 16:17:08	acdw	beatuful
2020-07-10 16:17:21	makeworld	Thanks for the conversion haha
2020-07-10 16:17:24	makeworld	But yes sounds great
2020-07-10 16:18:05	acdw	:D
2020-07-10 16:18:20	acdw	I'm trying to be more international online. Esp. b/c America is the only F place
2020-07-10 16:19:12	makeworld	I feel like there might be some African nation that also uses it... but they probably switched over lol
2020-07-10 16:19:40	makeworld	Any chance of Bollux dev this weekend?
2020-07-10 16:23:29	acdw	fingers crossed!
2020-07-10 16:23:45	acdw	I have to do taxes with my mother-in-law on Saturday, but maybe after that
2020-07-10 16:24:09	acdw	I really think I want to finish it ... get it to a 1.0 .. and then be done with it lol
2020-07-10 16:24:16	acdw	turns out clicking and stuff is pretty important to me lol
2020-07-10 16:24:25	acdw	OH I have to vote too! (tomrow))
2020-07-10 16:25:04	m68k	heh, yeah I'm stoked that there's more serious development on GUI browsers than on gopher
2020-07-10 16:27:12	acdw	haha yes
2020-07-10 16:27:32	acdw	the ~good~ GUIs do gopher and gemini (and http (*cough* kristall))
2020-07-10 16:28:22	m68k	well see none of this stuff existed a year ago :D
2020-07-10 16:29:22	acdw	true fact!
2020-07-10 16:29:28	acdw	it's prety impressive really
2020-07-10 16:30:50	m68k	yeah I'm terrified that like the ecosystem is unrecognizable to me since I last checked o.o I need to remake my [what do we call a website?] from scratch
2020-07-10 16:31:14	acdw	capsule? geminispace? gemsite? mine (gem-related)? shoot you can call it what you want :)
2020-07-10 16:31:26	acdw	m68k when did you last check?
2020-07-10 16:31:38	acdw	tbh I use portal.mozz.us like ... most of the time to browse
2020-07-10 16:32:04	m68k	ah, yeah capsule. geminispace is the whole gemini internet, surely?
2020-07-10 16:32:51	acdw	yeah, I guess you're right! Forgot, sorry I'm doing like 3 things at once
2020-07-10 16:33:29	acdw	Oh we could call it the Crystal Dimension: https://adventuretime.fandom.com/wiki/Crystal_Dimension
2020-07-10 16:35:44	m68k	well I set up a jetforce server late december. I lost steam in like march, have read bits of the discussions but for instsance I should set up an RSS feed etc
2020-07-10 16:37:46	companion_cube	a favorite game of mine has a character named Crystal
2020-07-10 16:39:02	acdw	m68k: I think you'd just need to update jetforce and then drop content into your box. solderpunk has a gemini RSS generator, I think on tildegit.org
2020-07-10 16:39:10	acdw	companion_cube: Oh? What game?
2020-07-10 16:39:17	companion_cube	nuclear throne :p
2020-07-10 16:42:21	makeworld	Yeah, make sure you update m68k
2020-07-10 16:42:28	makeworld	acdw: What's the voting for?
2020-07-10 16:43:59	acdw	oh for Presidential primaries, local party leadership, one judgeship, and a ballot initiative for millage
2020-07-10 16:44:11	acdw	Louisiana pushed the primaries back and then back again b/c covid
2020-07-10 16:44:53	acdw	companion_cube: Oh I like roguelikes, sort of!  I want to like them more than I think I actually do
2020-07-10 16:45:23	companion_cube	it's kind of an action roguelike, but yeah :D
2020-07-10 16:45:33	companion_cube	I spent a long time playing IVAN, 15y ago…
2020-07-10 16:48:06	acdw	oh that is a cool name
2020-07-10 16:48:11	acdw	I only ever played nethack really
2020-07-10 16:52:25	m68k	mm dungeon crawl stone soup is a good one
2020-07-10 16:53:51	acdw	I've heard of that! I think I can play it online somewehre too
2020-07-10 16:54:07	acdw	lol first result: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjGgoH9ksPqAhVPIqwKHdVlALEQFjAAegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fchildsupport.georgia.gov%2F&usg=AOvVaw0pK9MfxbL4W4anuMVwwKsL
2020-07-10 16:54:15	acdw	yessh what a terrible url, sorry
2020-07-10 16:54:46	acdw	found it :) http://crawl.berotato.org:8080/#lobby
2020-07-10 16:55:14	m68k	yeah it might be on some tilde servers too? I forget
2020-07-10 16:58:12	acdw	yeah I think so!
2020-07-10 16:58:25	~tiwesdaeg	nethack is on tilde.pink
2020-07-10 16:59:17	acdw	+1 to nethack
2020-07-10 16:59:59	epoch	nethack seems like pacman in how little I ever expect to finishing it.
2020-07-10 17:00:07	acdw	tiwesdaeg: do you admin tilde.pink?
2020-07-10 17:00:14	acdw	epoch: agreed :)
2020-07-10 17:00:19	epoch	like, play a level or two, die, and that's what I expected.
2020-07-10 17:00:41	acdw	haha yeap
2020-07-10 17:00:55	acdw	reminds me. i need to write more IF for gemini
2020-07-10 17:01:43	epoch	there was a neat seven-day-rogue I think that was called scrap where you play as a robot and can salvage parts of the fallen baddies.
2020-07-10 17:04:16	acdw	oh that's awesome
2020-07-10 17:04:23	ℹ 	epoch is now known as perse
2020-07-10 17:05:45	ℹ 	perse is now known as epoch
2020-07-10 17:06:20	ℹ 	epoch is now known as www-data
2020-07-10 17:08:04	ℹ 	www-data is now known as epoch
2020-07-10 17:24:56	~tiwesdaeg	acdw: I sure do
2020-07-10 17:25:45	acdw	*love* the colorscheme :) also I always forget ... what does YOLD stand for?
2020-07-10 17:25:59	~tiwesdaeg	Year of our Lady Discord
2020-07-10 17:26:21	~tiwesdaeg	from the discordian calendar system
2020-07-10 17:27:06	acdw	yes! thank you :) I've been appreciating all your discordian stuff as well
2020-07-10 17:27:28	~tiwesdaeg	congratulations, you're a pope!
2020-07-10 17:28:15	acdw	:O for real!?? oh I'm so happy
2020-07-10 17:28:54	acdw	I know I've asked this before, but discordianism is basically for like, whatever right? like I can just start publishing discordian texts and it'll be set
2020-07-10 17:28:55	acdw	?
2020-07-10 17:29:34	~tiwesdaeg	https://www.libraryoferis.org/files/pope.txt
2020-07-10 17:29:54	~tiwesdaeg	there is no centralized organization
2020-07-10 17:30:06	~tiwesdaeg	that actually goes against the idea of discordiansim
2020-07-10 17:31:17	~tiwesdaeg	gemini://libraryoferis.org/cgi-bin/item.cgi?LOE00001
2020-07-10 17:31:25	~tiwesdaeg	I'd start here if you want to learn more
2020-07-10 17:31:52	~tiwesdaeg	if you do ever write anything, let me know and I'll at it to the library of eris
2020-07-10 17:32:01	~tiwesdaeg	s/at/add
2020-07-10 17:37:40	acdw	:D yes!
2020-07-10 17:37:58	acdw	I've actually written something before I knew about discordianism, but I think is somewhat in touch with it...
2020-07-10 17:38:01	acdw	back in college
2020-07-10 17:38:13	acdw	love that card, btw
2020-07-10 17:38:40	acdw	i want to print the principia so badly but i don't think thta's a good idea at work lol
2020-07-10 17:39:02	epoch	I'm going to say it is discordian to make assertions about discordianism without consulting any authorities.
2020-07-10 17:39:08	epoch	like that.
2020-07-10 17:40:44	acdw	hahah yes
2020-07-10 17:40:56	~tiwesdaeg	after all, we are all popes, which means we can make up any doctrine we want
2020-07-10 17:41:25	acdw	yus
2020-07-10 17:41:45	acdw	well the thing I wrote starts here https://acdw.gitlab.io/autocento/prelude.html if you want to look at it, it came from the "Gospel of Hezekiah"
2020-07-10 17:41:55	acdw	but of course I shoehorned it into my Master's Thesis, lol
2020-07-10 17:47:33	@tomasino	24
2020-07-10 17:47:38	@tomasino	derp
2020-07-10 17:48:04	acdw	25
2020-07-10 17:48:24	acdw	we doing #counting in here? lo
2020-07-10 17:48:25	acdw	l
2020-07-10 17:48:34	yeti	XXVI
2020-07-10 17:48:39	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-10 17:49:29	epoch	3**3
2020-07-10 17:51:23	acdw	twenty-eight
2020-07-10 17:53:28	yeti	== 2nd perfect number
2020-07-10 17:54:41	acdw	the tenth prime number, and also the fourth primorial prime.
2020-07-10 17:55:17	@tomasino	8675309 is a prime
2020-07-10 17:55:22	@tomasino	just sayin'
2020-07-10 17:55:33	login	dwefine primorial prime
2020-07-10 17:55:49	acdw	hahahah that's good
2020-07-10 17:56:04	acdw	gonna use that for my gemini server's encryptino
2020-07-10 17:56:34	@tomasino	ben: what's that weird phone number of your friend that's ALSO a prime?
2020-07-10 17:56:41	@ben	4201969?
2020-07-10 17:56:44	@tomasino	yeah
2020-07-10 17:56:53	@ben	such a good phone number
2020-07-10 17:56:57	@ben	i would rate it 5/7
2020-07-10 17:57:20	@tomasino	i would rate it an 11, cause prime
2020-07-10 17:58:33	login	acdw: your gemini server encryption should use 256-bit primes
2020-07-10 17:58:43	login	i mean, sorry, 4096-bit primes
2020-07-10 17:58:56	@tomasino	why not 8675309-bit primes?
2020-07-10 17:59:08	login	which number is that?
2020-07-10 17:59:16	login	can you find that bit prime? plus, the calculation is slower
2020-07-10 17:59:44	login	i just want a dvd or bluray disk of primes
2020-07-10 17:59:49	login	sounds like a good souvenir to keep
2020-07-10 18:00:45	epoch	I have a pretty long prime memorized.
2020-07-10 18:00:56	login	Is it your password?
2020-07-10 18:01:01	acdw	hehe login: i figured :)
2020-07-10 18:01:04	login	sounds scandalously nice
2020-07-10 18:01:10	acdw	okay goin to lunch, by yall
2020-07-10 18:01:15	login	bye
2020-07-10 18:01:16	acdw	s/by/bye
2020-07-10 18:01:17	epoch	1000000000000066600000000000001
2020-07-10 18:01:18	acdw	:)
2020-07-10 18:01:28	login	no way that is a prime
2020-07-10 18:01:31		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-10 18:01:34	login	that prime is only for the devil
2020-07-10 18:01:47	login	sip-...-br.no.cox.net
2020-07-10 18:01:47	@tomasino	oh yes, that's got a fun name
2020-07-10 18:01:49	epoch	"1" + ("0" * 13) + "666" + ("0" * 13) + 1
2020-07-10 18:01:52	epoch	palindrome too
2020-07-10 18:01:59	login	palindromic primes
2020-07-10 18:02:04	login	they must have special properties
2020-07-10 18:02:06	@tomasino	i forget it... baal's prime or something
2020-07-10 18:02:12	epoch	"Belphegor's prime"
2020-07-10 18:02:26	@tomasino	ahh, that's it
2020-07-10 18:02:27	login	If it's a palindrome in base 10
2020-07-10 18:02:34	login	does it have to be a palindrome in base 2?
2020-07-10 18:02:54	epoch	probably not
2020-07-10 18:03:46	epoch	base10 101 == base2 1100101
2020-07-10 18:06:01	@tomasino	you ever play with negidecimal numbers?
2020-07-10 18:06:03	@tomasino	base -10?
2020-07-10 18:06:42	epoch	not much, but I think I know how a negative base number might work.
2020-07-10 18:07:18	@tomasino	it's really neat how the numeric representations of a numberline jump all over the place in negidecimal
2020-07-10 18:07:25	@tomasino	but the math operations are even weirder
2020-07-10 18:07:31	@tomasino	multiplication / division and such
2020-07-10 18:07:33	@tomasino	it's wild
2020-07-10 18:07:38	epoch	have you looked at where the fibonacci sequence goes if you run it backwards? :)
2020-07-10 18:07:53	@tomasino	nope
2020-07-10 18:08:01	epoch	it bounces back and forth ever more violent the more negative you get
2020-07-10 18:08:14	@tomasino	coool!
2020-07-10 18:08:27	epoch	it is the same as it is forwards but alternates in sign
2020-07-10 18:09:15	epoch	something like -1 1 -2 3 -5 8 -13 21
2020-07-10 18:09:57	@tomasino	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_base
2020-07-10 18:09:59	epoch	21 + -13 = 8 ; -13 + 8 = -5 ; 8 + -5 = 3 ; -5 + 3 = -2
2020-07-10 18:10:24	@tomasino	there's code further down that page
2020-07-10 18:10:29	@tomasino	in case you want to play play play
2020-07-10 18:11:10	yeti	epoch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghxQA3vvhsk
2020-07-10 18:11:30	@tomasino	and of course, once you play with that , imaginary bases are the next step
2020-07-10 18:11:34	@tomasino	i love recreational math
2020-07-10 18:25:46	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 18:27:45	kensanata	Hello again! May the client certificates be with you.
2020-07-10 18:28:13	⚡	tomasino shows the secret gemini handsign of two fingers held in the air
2020-07-10 18:28:16	@tomasino	Peace.
2020-07-10 18:30:25	yeti	,,\/_
2020-07-10 18:30:32	kensanata	☝👆
2020-07-10 18:30:42	@tomasino	haha
2020-07-10 18:30:43	@tomasino	yes
2020-07-10 18:31:02	⚡	yeti prefers  \\//_
2020-07-10 18:31:30	kensanata	What's that, 🖖 ?
2020-07-10 18:31:41	yeti	ask spock
2020-07-10 18:31:46	kensanata	I've never been a Trekkie but I've used it as well.
2020-07-10 18:32:28	⚡	yeti strongly dislikes that space cowboy kirk...
2020-07-10 18:33:07	@tomasino	it's okay, he never really existed, yeti. It's all just a fiction. :)
2020-07-10 18:33:11	⚡	tomasino pats yeti on the head
2020-07-10 18:33:14	epoch	see you space cowboy?
2020-07-10 18:34:11		yeti has left #gemini
2020-07-10 18:34:27	wgreenhouse	I never saw the ep where kirk interfered in yeti civilization
2020-07-10 18:34:30	wgreenhouse	but he totally would
2020-07-10 18:34:50	@tomasino	totally
2020-07-10 18:36:09	makeworld	Anyone know a gemini site with some large non-text files?
2020-07-10 18:36:19	makeworld	Want to test my downloading feature
2020-07-10 18:36:35	epoch	uh, one sec.
2020-07-10 18:36:39	epoch	lemme symlink a file
2020-07-10 18:37:41	epoch	wait. /how/ big?
2020-07-10 18:37:50	epoch	I have an 8.8M mp4
2020-07-10 18:38:25	makeworld	Sounds good, let's try!
2020-07-10 18:38:31	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/animatrix.mp4
2020-07-10 18:38:43	epoch	pretty sure my gemini server will work with a symlink instead of choking
2020-07-10 18:39:28	makeworld	Received!
2020-07-10 18:39:32	makeworld	Show intro?
2020-07-10 18:39:42	epoch	DVD intro
2020-07-10 18:40:10	epoch	was thinking it might be neat to recreate it with VR stuff and wanted to show someone what I was talking about
2020-07-10 18:40:24	epoch	so now I just use it as a test video
2020-07-10 18:41:34	makeworld	Yeah it would be
2020-07-10 18:43:14	kensanata	gemini://alexschroeder.ch/do/gallery has a ton of images
2020-07-10 18:43:49	kensanata	But I guess... how large is large? :D
2020-07-10 18:44:01	makeworld	Thanks! I've been testing with images, I just wanted to see something larger, like tens of MB maybe
2020-07-10 18:44:13	makeworld	I would have used konpeito, but it's down
2020-07-10 18:53:03	kensanata	So, given that I can water my plant using AV-89, how can I do the same using gnutls-cli? echo "gemini://astrobotany.mozz.us/app/plant" | gnutls-cli astrobotany.mozz.us:1965 --crlf --x509certfile=/home/alex/.config/av98/cert_cache/astrobotany/cert.pem --x509keyfile=/home/alex/.config/av98/cert_cache/astrobotany/key.pem --tofu ... but sadly that gives me an error.
2020-07-10 18:53:11	kensanata	*** Fatal error: Error in the certificate.
2020-07-10 18:56:24	epoch	I can give you any amount of bytes you want if you don't mind that they're all the same byte.
2020-07-10 18:56:53	epoch	yes | dd count=100 #or something like that
2020-07-10 18:56:54	makeworld	Ha
2020-07-10 18:57:05	makeworld	I think it's good now, but why not?
2020-07-10 18:58:49	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/y51mb
2020-07-10 18:59:09	epoch	 /exec -o cat /var/gemini/y51mb
2020-07-10 18:59:11	epoch	#!/bin/sh
2020-07-10 18:59:11	epoch	yes | dd count=100000
2020-07-10 19:08:43	makeworld	Not getting a header...
2020-07-10 19:09:03	epoch	oh. duh me.
2020-07-10 19:09:05	makeworld	You'll have to add:
2020-07-10 19:09:08	epoch	yeah
2020-07-10 19:09:28	makeworld	echo -e '20 application/octet-stream\r\n'
2020-07-10 19:09:34	makeworld	Or something
2020-07-10 19:10:32	epoch	reload
2020-07-10 19:10:42	epoch	I made it 10 to ask what mime you wanted
2020-07-10 19:10:57	makeworld	Kool
2020-07-10 19:10:57	epoch	if it has a query string it'll use that.
2020-07-10 19:11:51	makeworld	Yeah I see, nice
2020-07-10 19:11:53	makeworld	Good test
2020-07-10 19:12:16	makeworld	Alright saved, exactly 51,200,000 bytes
2020-07-10 19:12:41	epoch	now, you want /dev/urandom? :>
2020-07-10 19:12:44	makeworld	But keep this up please, I'll use it for some other tests
2020-07-10 19:12:45	makeworld	Ha
2020-07-10 19:13:01	epoch	fuzz the text/gemini parser?
2020-07-10 19:13:33	makeworld	I'm adding a limit to text/gemini response size
2020-07-10 19:13:44	makeworld	I'll use this to test that limit
2020-07-10 19:14:40	epoch	kk
2020-07-10 19:22:27	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 19:26:04	makeworld	epoch: You don't decode the query string with percent decoding
2020-07-10 19:26:27	makeworld	So gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/y51mb?text%2Fgemini returns a MIME type of text%2Fgemini
2020-07-10 19:30:15	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 19:36:13	epoch	one sec then..
2020-07-10 19:36:53	⚡	epoch | uriunescape
2020-07-10 19:37:52	epoch	now you can have null bytes in your response type. :)
2020-07-10 19:38:27	epoch	or invalid unicode
2020-07-10 19:38:36	epoch	invalid utf-8*
2020-07-10 19:39:42	makeworld	Ayy there we go
2020-07-10 19:40:23	⚡	epoch searches for invalid utf-8 sequences
2020-07-10 19:40:30	epoch	\xc3\x28 is a two-byte one
2020-07-10 19:42:03	makeworld	Even just \xc3 works
2020-07-10 19:43:06	epoch	because it ends before a second byte?
2020-07-10 19:43:43	epoch	and the leading bit pattern 110 indicates there should be another?
2020-07-10 19:45:47	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 19:54:04	makeworld	I guess??
2020-07-10 19:54:58	makeworld	The uni command just told me it was invalid
2020-07-10 21:05:22		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-10 21:19:55	kayw	wow writing my client is turning out to be harder than i though
2020-07-10 21:19:58	kayw	thought*
2020-07-10 21:20:10	acdw	what language are you writing it in kayw?
2020-07-10 21:20:15	kayw	nim
2020-07-10 21:20:37	kayw	im making a connection (hurrah!) but i keep getting code 40
2020-07-10 21:20:41	acdw	oh cool! I know nothing about nim.
2020-07-10 21:21:22	kayw	it feels very python-y, so i feel at home, but they are definitely two separate languages
2020-07-10 21:21:33	acdw	40? hm. do you get a META string?
2020-07-10 21:22:13	kayw	nope, i dont get anything in return. im gonna experiement some more and we'll see
2020-07-10 21:22:19	epoch	I think I might expand the query-string-as-mime-type-used-in-response to also allow you to pick the numeric
2020-07-10 21:22:45	epoch	so you can really easily test your client against empty, non-number, very long, negative, etc
2020-07-10 21:23:38	kayw	the docs on the net module are very lackluster so I need to read more
2020-07-10 21:23:38	acdw	kayw: good luck!
2020-07-10 21:24:37	kayw	thanks! im gonna need it
2020-07-10 21:25:02	acdw	epoch: great idea tbh. like that http website where it has different endpoints for things
2020-07-10 21:25:07	acdw	I cannot remember the name rn
2020-07-10 21:26:17	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/queryresponse
2020-07-10 21:27:26	acdw	amazing, epoch!
2020-07-10 21:27:35	acdw	I had it give 98 whatever
2020-07-10 21:27:36	epoch	on my http site I have a title.cgi that lets me put env vars from the httpd into <title> so I can poke at IRC titlebots
2020-07-10 21:27:44	acdw	gemini needs a teapot return code tbh
2020-07-10 21:27:56	acdw	that's great lol
2020-07-10 21:27:58	epoch	what's response 69?
2020-07-10 21:28:11	epoch	or 42?
2020-07-10 21:28:19	acdw	I don't think anything? Should be something lewd
2020-07-10 21:28:28	acdw	42 actually makes sense to include; it's space-themed :)
2020-07-10 21:28:34	epoch	69 Must Be Over 18
2020-07-10 21:28:43	acdw	42 should be, "I'm about to send you everything I have"
2020-07-10 21:28:52	acdw	which would totes be an error
2020-07-10 21:28:54	acdw	also ewwww
2020-07-10 21:29:05	acdw	which is what l ew d contains I suppose
2020-07-10 21:29:55	epoch	65 seems like it'd be some meta response
2020-07-10 21:30:35	epoch	I'll put some actually useful diagnostic data in that queryresponse page
2020-07-10 21:31:23	acdw	65? why meta?
2020-07-10 21:31:27	acdw	OH cuz 1965
2020-07-10 21:31:42	makeworld	They're all out of spec tbh
2020-07-10 21:32:05	makeworld	I know you're joking ofc, but I'm pretty sure a compliant client will raise an error?
2020-07-10 21:32:14	epoch	hopefully
2020-07-10 21:32:52	epoch	does the spec say what clients should do with un-spec responses?
2020-07-10 21:33:09	makeworld	"If a server sends a <STATUS> which is not a two-digit number or a <META> which exceeds 1024 bytes in length, the client SHOULD close the connection and disregard the response header, informing the user of an error."
2020-07-10 21:33:11	epoch	or is it "undefined behavior"?
2020-07-10 21:33:25	epoch	alright.
2020-07-10 21:33:27	makeworld	I will extrapolate "not a two-digit number" to also apply to non-valid status codes
2020-07-10 21:33:40	makeworld	Amfora will raise an error for code 12, for example
2020-07-10 21:33:48	makeworld	Anything not prescribed
2020-07-10 21:34:19	epoch	case 10: case 20: case etc: default: warning();
2020-07-10 21:34:49	acdw	I found it: http://httpbin.org/
2020-07-10 21:35:18	acdw	the thing that tests http things
2020-07-10 21:35:25	epoch	ooooooooh. neat.
2020-07-10 21:35:28	⚡	epoch saves link
2020-07-10 21:35:48	acdw	I would think that a non-specced 2-digit error code would simply degrade (in a sane client) to the one-digit error
2020-07-10 21:35:54	acdw	if that first digit is 1-6 ofc
2020-07-10 21:36:02	acdw	otherwise, fatal error
2020-07-10 21:36:50	acdw	of course, you could include easter eggs in your client -- e.g., 42 or 69 or 68
2020-07-10 21:37:04	acdw	though servers would have to serve those codes, so it'd be a tough egg ...
2020-07-10 21:37:05	acdw	to crack
2020-07-10 21:37:41	epoch	there was an easter egg in IE5
2020-07-10 21:37:52	epoch	that was harder to get to than that
2020-07-10 21:37:56	acdw	oh yeah?
2020-07-10 21:38:00	acdw	love easter eggs
2020-07-10 21:38:42	epoch	getting to it is like level 3 on http://3564020356.org/
2020-07-10 21:39:54	acdw	oh lort
2020-07-10 21:40:03	acdw	that is going to be a timesuck for me
2020-07-10 21:40:55	epoch	if you really want a timesink... https://wechall.net/
2020-07-10 21:41:22	epoch	which aggregates the scores from 62 (so far) different challenge sites
2020-07-10 21:41:30	epoch	and then calculates a global score
2020-07-10 21:41:56	acdw	oh no
2020-07-10 21:42:03	acdw	I'm going to lose all of them, I know it
2020-07-10 21:42:18	acdw	I'm actually not good at puzzles -- I can't solve higher than Wednesday on the crossword
2020-07-10 21:43:07	epoch	there's no hurry or rush
2020-07-10 21:43:16	acdw	haa
2020-07-10 21:44:25	acdw	oh this will be fun. ma's reversing, that is!
2020-07-10 21:44:58	epoch	wechall gives you nice graphs and percentages and a list of other sites to play on when you're bored and stuck on the places you know of.
2020-07-10 21:46:49	acdw	oh that's great. gonna have to make an account there today
2020-07-10 21:50:47	epoch	I had some nice shell challenges for a while.
2020-07-10 21:51:28	acdw	like over ssh or telnet, or like, "rm -rf /*" ?
2020-07-10 21:51:37	acdw	or I guess a script would work
2020-07-10 21:51:48	epoch	over ssh mostly. some were exploit other services.
2020-07-10 21:52:15	epoch	or just things like "connect to this port from an IP within the dn42 range"
2020-07-10 21:52:19	acdw	oh that's fun
2020-07-10 21:52:29	epoch	so that one challenge was to just get on dn42
2020-07-10 21:53:02	epoch	I also gave people their own named accounts so it was kind of tilde-like but with shell-challenges
2020-07-10 21:53:07	acdw	oh that's really fun
2020-07-10 21:53:38	epoch	its been down since January of last year.
2020-07-10 21:53:53	epoch	I had a meltdown and deleted everything.
2020-07-10 21:54:28	epoch	and I haven't rebuilt it like I usually did after I deleted everything.
2020-07-10 21:54:36	acdw	oh I hope you're feeling better now!
2020-07-10 21:55:04	epoch	mostly most of the time
2020-07-10 21:56:31	epoch	yay. it is raining.
2020-07-10 21:56:31	acdw	I know how that goes....
2020-07-10 21:56:52	epoch	brb. standing in rain.
2020-07-10 21:58:35	acdw	oof
2020-07-10 21:58:49	epoch	:) yay rain
2020-07-10 22:03:56	acdw	:D
2020-07-10 22:04:48	acdw	That's so funny I took your original "yay. it is raining." as sarcastic. The perils of text-based communication
2020-07-10 22:05:19	epoch	that's why I doubled down on the "yay" and smiley face. I figured that's what happened from the "oof"
2020-07-10 22:05:20	epoch	:)
2020-07-10 22:06:43	acdw	hehe
2020-07-10 22:11:13	luna	trying to interpret the tone of text is fun
2020-07-10 22:12:36	acdw	SO much fun ;)
2020-07-10 22:13:11	acdw	e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_punctuation
2020-07-10 22:14:54	acdw	oh, this is good: "Another example is bracketing text with the symbol for the element iron (<Fe> and </Fe>) in order to denote irony.[citation needed]"
2020-07-10 22:15:45	luna	lmao
2020-07-10 22:16:14	acdw	<Fe> needs to be in the text/gemini spec
2020-07-10 22:16:43	acdw	for greater semantic fluidity in text/gemini documents and to make it harder to troll
2020-07-10 22:16:46	epoch	<Fe>&lt;Fe&gt;lol&lt;/Fe&gt;</Fe>
2020-07-10 22:16:59	acdw	oh lort
2020-07-10 22:17:45	acdw	also apparently :^) has "taken a hold in some communities[who?]"
2020-07-10 22:17:49	epoch	<![CDATA[ <Pb>wat</Pb> ]]>
2020-07-10 22:18:19	acdw	so I hereby formally suggest that :^) become the text/gemini line-type for sarcasm
2020-07-10 22:19:16	luna	we don't need inline links, but we do need sarcasm indication :^)
2020-07-10 22:19:36	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/sarcasm.gmi
2020-07-10 22:19:41	acdw	uh yeah luna of course
2020-07-10 22:19:43	epoch	and there's an instance of it in the wild!
2020-07-10 22:20:16	acdw	:O
2020-07-10 22:20:22	acdw	amazing
2020-07-10 22:20:31	epoch	you forgot the :^)
2020-07-10 22:20:42	acdw	I was *serious*
2020-07-10 22:20:45	acdw	:^)
2020-07-10 22:21:02	acdw	I think clients should be specced to render sarcastic lines as Comic Sans
2020-07-10 22:21:19	epoch	I was thinking about emphasis on certain words indicating what within the sentence someone was being sarcastic about.
2020-07-10 22:21:59	acdw	mm that could work. I just realized I surround sarcastic or "extra" text (or text I want to be taken self-consciously) with ~tildes~
2020-07-10 22:22:33	acdw	Or you could spec that clients render sarcasm lines like this:
2020-07-10 22:22:59	epoch	"elephants *love* mice" vs "*elephants* love mice" vs "elephants love *mice*"
2020-07-10 22:23:03	acdw	:^) I'm being super cereal you guys => I'm BeInG sUpEr CeReAl YoU gUyS
2020-07-10 22:23:35	acdw	lol have you seen that Seinfeld bit? Jerry asks Elaine which word someone emphasized and he gives two examples
2020-07-10 22:23:51	acdw	and she's like, "I think he said <emphasizes another word>"
2020-07-10 22:24:25	epoch	I think I've seen that somehow.
2020-07-10 22:24:36	acdw	haha of course what I'm describing is impossible to google
2020-07-10 22:25:47	acdw	so we'll have to trust each other
2020-07-10 22:26:05	acdw	.. now here's a questions: if :^) is the sarcasm face, what about 8^) ?
2020-07-10 22:26:37	@tomasino	Why so cereal?
2020-07-10 22:26:40	epoch	that's just silly
2020-07-10 22:27:06	acdw	B^)
2020-07-10 22:28:28	luna	X^)
2020-07-10 22:28:36	epoch	_     _
2020-07-10 22:28:37	epoch	 \O_o/
2020-07-10 22:31:35	acdw	ooh a two-liner that's nice
2020-07-10 22:31:56	acdw	so anyway I think text/gemini has space for all sorts of emoticon-based line types
2020-07-10 22:32:02	acdw	thanks for coming to my Ted talk
2020-07-10 22:34:48	luna	how is everyone doing?
2020-07-10 22:36:38	acdw	wonderful, you!?
2020-07-10 22:38:46	luna	i'm doing alright, just thinking about where i want to go with hosting stuff
2020-07-10 22:39:04	luna	was almost considering trying to host my own email but hahahaha no i won't even try
2020-07-10 22:40:48	luna	i'm quite a newbie to a lot of things, from irc to working with a vps to registering a domain
2020-07-10 22:41:05	luna	makes me both anxious and excited at the same time, since it gives me something to do and usually works out in the end
2020-07-10 22:42:05	acdw	haha I know exactly how you mean luna, that's wehre I still am with breadpunk
2020-07-10 22:42:18	acdw	I went with digital ocean but I've heard good things re vultr
2020-07-10 22:42:46	luna	yeah, i only use digitalocean at the moment because github student benefit credit lol
2020-07-10 22:43:30	acdw	oh nice!
2020-07-10 22:44:21	acdw	I'm definitely team "cheapest"
2020-07-10 22:44:30	luna	but in the future i might want to go with something cheaper like vultr or hetzner because i'm a penny pincher i guess
2020-07-10 22:45:34	luna	most of what i plan to use my vps for consists of gemini, git and basic https anyways :P
2020-07-10 22:46:04		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-10 22:46:33	acdw	oh I've heard good about hetzner too -- is it cheaper? for mypersonal webiste I want to go cheap cheap cheap
2020-07-10 22:47:05	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QRw.jpg - Why so cereal
2020-07-10 22:47:06	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-10 22:48:12	acdw	omg lol you spent TIME on that :P
2020-07-10 22:49:00	@tomasino	i did
2020-07-10 22:49:05	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-10 22:52:17	acdw	love it
2020-07-10 22:58:27	acdw	alright yall going home. bye
2020-07-10 22:58:30		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-10 23:00:57	makeworld	Only one feature left to add for Amfora v1.3.0... search in pages
2020-07-10 23:01:10	makeworld	It seems pretty annoying tbh
2020-07-10 23:08:49	makeworld	I think it's going to end up being a v1.4.0 thing
2020-07-10 23:09:58	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-10 23:20:03	makeworld	Hey luna
2020-07-10 23:20:40	luna	hey hey!
2020-07-10 23:21:03	makeworld	Hey hEy hey
2020-07-10 23:21:13	makeworld	What's up, how's Gemini treating you
2020-07-10 23:25:59	luna	gemini is treating me well, just toying around with gig at the moment
2020-07-10 23:29:14	luna	might end up using a more traditional gemini library for server stuff though, not sure yet
2020-07-10 23:30:40	makeworld	Oh nice, I haven't used gig but it seems very advanced and cool
2020-07-10 23:30:48	makeworld	I should look at it more
2020-07-10 23:30:53	makeworld	Lmk if you end up using it
2020-07-10 23:31:15	makeworld	I've also been wanting to build a Jetforce app, bc it looks so nice and easy
2020-07-10 23:31:27	luna	will do
2020-07-10 23:36:09	makeworld	Alright, Amfora v1.3.0 released :))
2020-07-10 23:36:20	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/releases/tag/v1.3.0
2020-07-10 23:36:24	makeworld	Now with downloading!
2020-07-10 23:41:21	luna	i knew your username was familiar omg, i was going crazy trying to remember what it was you made
2020-07-10 23:49:34	makeworld	Haha you've seen my site?
2020-07-10 23:50:13	luna	i found the go-gemini repo through god knows where, i don't even remember lol
2020-07-10 23:50:18	makeworld	Do you have a site up already?
2020-07-10 23:50:22	makeworld	Oh cool
2020-07-10 23:50:52	makeworld	That's sort of just my personal repo, but a couple people have started adding to it ha
2020-07-10 23:51:48	luna	i haven't hosted anything on gemini other than testing how small i can make my tls certificates
2020-07-10 23:53:21	luna	was working on a program to generate them too, but considering soldierpunk is already planning on making the same thing i'm not sure if it's worth releasing
2020-07-10 23:53:45	makeworld	No harm in having two, but might make sense to wait yeah
2020-07-10 23:54:00	makeworld	Tbh I don't see how his tool can't just be a openssl command
2020-07-10 23:55:16	luna	go has libraries to generate certs, but when it comes to actually running it in a command line it kind of is just like using openssl lol
2020-07-10 23:56:38	makeworld	Yeah
2020-07-10 23:57:07	makeworld	The one advantage I see is that for wildcard certs you need OpenSSL 1.1.1 like I talked about in my post, and not everyone has that
2020-07-10 23:57:16	makeworld	But idk if his tool will even generate wildcard certs
2020-07-10 23:58:00	@tomasino	you're a wildcard cert
2020-07-10 23:58:33	luna	i was thinking of just posting my observations about reducing cert size to the mailing list, but i don't know if they're substantial enough to warrant a thread on there in the first place
2020-07-11 00:02:48	makeworld	What have you observed?
2020-07-11 00:02:51	makeworld	Thanks tomasino
2020-07-11 00:02:57	makeworld	>:)
2020-07-11 00:03:30	makeworld	For reducing cert size, all I've written about really is switching to EC keys, which seems good enough. Is there something else?
2020-07-11 00:05:42	luna	not much other than making the maximum serial number size 8 bits and saving a few bytes
2020-07-11 00:06:10	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-07-11 00:06:22	makeworld	Idk if that makes much of a practical difference, but it's still a cool exercies
2020-07-11 00:06:36	makeworld	But sure, go ahead and send it to the list!
2020-07-11 00:07:10	luna	yeah, it was just fun to see how small i could make them
2020-07-11 00:07:28	luna	i really do hope that things like the web gateways pick up on ecc support soon too ;w;
2020-07-11 00:07:54	makeworld	Wdym?
2020-07-11 00:08:01	makeworld	Like portal.mozz.us?
2020-07-11 00:08:20	makeworld	It support EC keys, doesn't it?
2020-07-11 00:09:02	luna	from what i remember it doesn't support it
2020-07-11 00:09:34	makeworld	Hmmph
2020-07-11 00:09:52	luna	tried cozylabs.eu and my own host, comes up with a connection error
2020-07-11 00:10:36	makeworld	Isn't that ed25519?
2020-07-11 00:10:55	makeworld	Yeah it is
2020-07-11 00:11:02	makeworld	Which is different than EC
2020-07-11 00:11:16	luna	ohhhh lol
2020-07-11 00:11:29	makeworld	Right now I've been advising against using ed25519 keys bc their less compatible with all libraries and stuff
2020-07-11 00:11:45	makeworld	I think they're a tiny bit smaller? Still 256 bits though
2020-07-11 00:12:08	makeworld	Wow gig looks nice
2020-07-11 00:12:27	makeworld	Makes me wonder if I should just stay in Go, and not go back to Python to build some app
2020-07-11 00:13:41	luna	i was able to make certs around 200-210 bytes on average with ed25519, 178 at the lowest (no common name defined)
2020-07-11 00:14:06	luna	yeah, gig is pretty nice
2020-07-11 00:22:29	luna	i'm likely to go with either net-gemini or go-gemini since those are more of my cup of tea
2020-07-11 00:22:36	luna	it's hard to choose
2020-07-11 00:23:22	makeworld	I would go with net-gemini or gig if you're writing an app
2020-07-11 00:23:31	makeworld	Tbh I would not use go-gemini for any server stuff
2020-07-11 00:23:42	makeworld	I have not put any work into that side of things and there are likely bugs
2020-07-11 00:23:57	wgreenhouse	makeworld: any tls impl that claims tls 1.3 compatibility ought to handle ed25519 certa
2020-07-11 00:24:02	wgreenhouse	*certs
2020-07-11 00:24:08	makeworld	Yes
2020-07-11 00:24:16	makeworld	But not all clients handle tls 1.3
2020-07-11 00:24:33	makeworld	Libraries of the language holding them back
2020-07-11 00:25:04	kayw	oh my god, writing this client is so painful
2020-07-11 00:25:37	makeworld	Uh oh
2020-07-11 00:26:04	makeworld	luna: Gig looks better than net-gemini, I'd go with that
2020-07-11 00:26:35	kayw	yeah, im able to connect to the server, but i can't properly make requests to the server
2020-07-11 00:27:17	kayw	molly-brown keeps hitting me with error code 40
2020-07-11 00:28:28	makeworld	Why don't you set up your own server and look at the logs?
2020-07-11 00:28:34	kayw	i am
2020-07-11 00:28:42	makeworld	Jetforce has good logs, idk if molly does
2020-07-11 00:28:51	makeworld	K gtg now sorry, maybe I can help debug tomorrow
2020-07-11 00:29:15	kayw	jetforce wasn't giving me anything in terms of logs
2020-07-11 00:29:21	luna	cya makeworld
2020-07-11 00:29:56	kayw	bye makeworld!
2020-07-11 01:15:11		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-11 01:29:25	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 01:37:37	kayw	whats the best way to generate a self-signed cert?
2020-07-11 01:46:09	kayw	nvm
2020-07-11 01:46:36	kayw	also, i finally got it working!!! now im getting code 53 instead of 40 and nothing in the error log
2020-07-11 01:49:00	makeworld	kayw: Jetforce logs every single request to stdout
2020-07-11 01:49:15	kayw	just noticed that!
2020-07-11 01:49:16	makeworld	Also I made a post about generating a self signed cert if that helps
2020-07-11 01:51:24	kayw	oh?
2020-07-11 01:51:28	kayw	ill check it out
2020-07-11 01:52:07	makeworld	👍🏼
2020-07-11 01:52:12	kayw	ugh, damnit
2020-07-11 01:52:20	kayw	self signed certs dont work right in av98
2020-07-11 01:52:29	kayw	av98 wont connect until 1am my time
2020-07-11 01:52:41	makeworld	??
2020-07-11 01:53:01	makeworld	Your timezone shouldn't matter. It would matter if your computer clock was wrong though
2020-07-11 01:53:05	kayw	https://i.salejandro.me/Bi4cNg.png i am using a self signed cert
2020-07-11 01:53:14	makeworld	Hmmm
2020-07-11 01:53:18	makeworld	K gtg again sorry
2020-07-11 01:53:22	kayw	cya
2020-07-11 02:18:09	kayw	...aaaaand now i dont know why im getting 53
2020-07-11 02:29:12	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 02:30:54	kayw	i did it!
2020-07-11 02:30:56	kayw	fuck yeah
2020-07-11 02:32:37	kayw	ok extremely basic client achieved
2020-07-11 02:32:53	kayw	its not printing links buuuuuut, i should get that soon
2020-07-11 02:44:34	luna	gg
2020-07-11 02:44:55	luna	:D
2020-07-11 03:47:41		Sario528 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-11 04:00:58	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 07:17:43		krjst has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-11 07:19:34	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 07:20:08		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-11 07:49:56		krjst has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-11 07:51:09	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 08:32:06		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-11 09:48:08		tuesday has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-11 11:50:22	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 14:05:29	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 14:09:17		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-11 14:41:27		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-11 14:56:55	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 15:22:18	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 16:20:00	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 16:41:40		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-11 17:08:54		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-11 17:59:24	dkibi	using mosh on a high speed train is so much fun. another reason for havin txt focused protocols ^^
2020-07-11 18:04:23	companion_cube	the only way to survive the internet connexion on a train trip
2020-07-11 18:04:35	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 18:06:13	login	how did you scharge dkibi
2020-07-11 18:06:16	login	also, welcome coleman
2020-07-11 18:06:21	login	do you use the colemak keyboard?
2020-07-11 18:06:35	dkibi	^^
2020-07-11 18:06:45	coleman	hello
2020-07-11 18:06:47	dkibi	scharge?
2020-07-11 18:06:57	coleman	No, but i have considered it haha
2020-07-11 18:19:42	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 18:20:33	login	hello koleman
2020-07-11 18:20:37	login	hello natpen
2020-07-11 18:28:02	djph	'afternoon all.  Stumbled across the project kind of by accident today.  Kind of an intriguing concept; though the site sails a little above my head.  Is there a 'for dummies' version of how it all works?
2020-07-11 18:29:31	@ben	ccccccgednderdjtfejglddtlrlcgujrcutjvrkttcdv
2020-07-11 18:29:59	@ben	oops
2020-07-11 18:31:08	@ben	it's an alternate protocol somewhere in between gopher and the web in terms of bloat
2020-07-11 18:32:06	djph	kind of a big gap, isn't it?
2020-07-11 18:34:12	coleman	yeah but it's way closer to the gopher side
2020-07-11 18:34:31	coleman	djph: have you downloaded a browser yet?
2020-07-11 18:35:02	djph	played around with the av-98 browser / terminal example from teh website, still wrapping my head around the options, etc.
2020-07-11 18:35:46	djph	guess I'd better find a server too ... and learn the markup
2020-07-11 18:37:06	coleman	i was just a kid, but i do remmeber surfing the web in 1995
2020-07-11 18:37:21	coleman	and the current gemini space takes me back :)
2020-07-11 18:38:24	djph	parents didn't get it for us until a couple of years later (97 or 98 -- It was definitely before we had a win98 machine though)
2020-07-11 18:39:01	djph	ugh, AOL and "You've Got Mail!" ... thank the maker I fell in with Linux not too long thereafter.
2020-07-11 18:40:51	coleman	I don't run my own gemini server yet, I just let envs.net do it for me
2020-07-11 18:42:36	djph	more a thing to do so I don't puke all over someone else's box while I'm getting my feet wet
2020-07-11 19:49:35		links has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 19:49:35		xfnw has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 19:49:35		djph has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 19:49:35		dodolz has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 19:49:35		bard has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 19:49:40	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 19:49:40	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 19:49:55	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 19:50:12	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 20:05:02	▬▬▶	xfnw- has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 20:06:27	ℹ 	xfnw- is now known as xfnw
2020-07-11 20:10:00	makeworld	Does anyone know any python gemini libraries?
2020-07-11 20:10:03	makeworld	I just know gusmobile
2020-07-11 20:25:19	makeworld	Which seems to be hacky
2020-07-11 21:04:22	makeworld	tomasino: Do you know how to use gnuplot?
2020-07-11 21:08:29	makeworld	I'm trying to figure it out and it's annoying the hell out of me
2020-07-11 21:13:28	kensanata	Heh.
2020-07-11 21:13:33	kensanata	Gnuplot can be great.
2020-07-11 21:13:53	kensanata	If your needs are along the lines of https://alexschroeder.ch/pdfs/2d6-Math.pdf I can help...
2020-07-11 21:14:00	makeworld	Yeah it seems like it, but it's so annoying right now, with Python anyway
2020-07-11 21:14:10	kensanata	Hm.
2020-07-11 21:15:20	makeworld	I have a list of dates, and two lists of numbers. And I just want to make two lines, by date
2020-07-11 21:15:34	makeworld	I need to find a decent guide on how to use it at all
2020-07-11 21:16:59	kensanata	something like https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17791828/gnuplot-date-time-in-x-axis#17792758 isn't working?
2020-07-11 21:19:22	kensanata	The basic workflow is this, from my very limited experience: prepare the data in a text file, write another text file with the plotting commands. Important stuff is "set term png" for image output, and the "plot" command at the end.
2020-07-11 21:19:38	makeworld	That would work yeah, I just don't know the commands to get it to understand my data
2020-07-11 21:20:22	kensanata	Do you want to send me a few lines of data and I'll take a look?
2020-07-11 21:22:17	makeworld	It's just the GUS historical data
2020-07-11 21:22:25	makeworld	I've isolated each cell easily in Python
2020-07-11 21:22:47	makeworld	So I can put it in any format I want when I give it to gnuplot, tab separated, comma separated, whatever
2020-07-11 21:24:15	kensanata	I don't know where to get the historical data so I'm just going to make up some dates and two numbers, dates on the x axis, numbers on the y axis, with two lines, one for each set of numbers?
2020-07-11 21:29:00	makeworld	That sounds right yeah
2020-07-11 21:29:19	makeworld	But I'm doing this with matplotlib right now and it's going okay, I don't want you to go to any trouble
2020-07-11 21:29:35	makeworld	The disadvantage is that you won't get ASCII graphs is all
2020-07-11 21:30:35	kensanata	Ah
2020-07-11 21:30:36	kensanata	OK.
2020-07-11 21:37:06	login	matplotlib is the best one
2020-07-11 21:43:25	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 21:43:29	luna	hello again
2020-07-11 21:45:23	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/makeworld.gq/gus-graph/graph.png?raw=1
2020-07-11 21:45:38	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/gus-graph/
2020-07-11 21:46:19	luna	mailing list has been a bit quiet :o
2020-07-11 21:46:30	makeworld	Yeah
2020-07-11 21:46:39	makeworld	kensanata: It's up now ^^
2020-07-11 21:47:07	luna	i might try hosting a simple gemini page soon
2020-07-11 21:47:46	makeworld	Ayy
2020-07-11 21:47:48	makeworld	Sounds good
2020-07-11 21:52:54	natpen	makeworld: that looks great!
2020-07-11 21:53:05	makeworld	Oh hello!
2020-07-11 21:53:10	makeworld	Glad you think so
2020-07-11 21:53:19	makeworld	Guess I don't have to email now :)
2020-07-11 21:54:10	makeworld	We'll see if my cron-fu is good enough, but it should automatically update every day
2020-07-11 21:55:05	makeworld	kensanata: Looks obvious when you joined Gemini ;)
2020-07-11 21:56:32	kensanata	Hah.
2020-07-11 21:56:58	kensanata	Also, new Gemini Wiki features! gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1968/page/2020-07-11%20Virtual%20Hosting
2020-07-11 21:58:43	kensanata	makeworld: To think that I wasn't too excited about Gemini a year ago... https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2019-06-21_Solderpunk's_Gemini_Protocol
2020-07-11 22:00:16	luna	gotta go, i'll be back shortly
2020-07-11 22:00:22		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-11 22:01:28	kensanata	And I gotta go to bed...
2020-07-11 22:01:34	kensanata	Midnight over here...
2020-07-11 22:04:31		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-11 22:07:28	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 22:30:57	makeworld	Trying to think about a good Gemini app idea...
2020-07-11 22:40:57		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-11 22:48:04	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 22:57:39	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 23:09:15		southerntofu has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 23:09:15		Ernoz has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 23:09:15		djph has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 23:09:15		erin has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 23:09:15		pekka20 has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 23:09:15		companion_cube has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 23:09:15		lvgx has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-11 23:09:20	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 23:09:21	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 23:09:27	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 23:09:27	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 23:09:42	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 23:26:40	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-07-11 23:53:14	makeworld	Trying to think about a good Gemini app idea...
2020-07-12 00:14:30	luna	i've been too, i'm kind of stumped
2020-07-12 00:34:28	luna	has anyone made a pastebin using gemini yet?
2020-07-12 00:35:15	epoch	not that I know of, but getting stuff pasted into it would be a little awkward
2020-07-12 00:35:46	luna	yeah, true
2020-07-12 00:35:48	epoch	might try a link shortener (inb4 link shorteners are evil)
2020-07-12 00:35:55	epoch	since gemini can do redirects
2020-07-12 00:36:45	epoch	are there gemini clients that will follow inter-protocol redirects?
2020-07-12 00:37:14	luna	i'm glad it can do redirects, makes inputting queries work well too
2020-07-12 00:50:48		everbern has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-12 00:52:54	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 01:46:28	▬▬▶	everbern_1 has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 01:47:22		everbern has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-12 02:14:54		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-12 04:08:17	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 04:14:59		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-12 05:31:30		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-12 10:24:39	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 10:25:21	kensanata	🚀🚀
2020-07-12 10:44:07	login	hi kensanata
2020-07-12 10:52:26	kensanata	Two things that keep astonishing me: hot water showers and phone cameras.
2020-07-12 10:54:35	kensanata	Also, I've started writing my blog posts in Gemini format. So strange, I used to be all about the small typographical flourishes, experimenting with increased letter spacing and small caps for emphasis and the like. And now there's just nothing at all, and it's OK, too.
2020-07-12 10:55:29	kensanata	Starting to really get into quoting ‘this’, “that”, «the other», and ｢fancy stuff｣.
2020-07-12 10:55:31	@tomasino	:)
2020-07-12 10:59:08	kensanata	tomasino: If you do setup Gemini Wiki, I'd be interested in following along and fixing any upcoming issues.
2020-07-12 10:59:24	@tomasino	Awesome!
2020-07-12 10:59:35	kensanata	I finally added a form of virtual hosting, and passwords ("tokens") per wiki space, i.e. also per virtual host.
2020-07-12 11:16:11	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 11:56:39	kensanata	tomasino: And I'm really interested in improving the documentation, so if you find anything confusing in https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-wiki/about/ let me know and I'll try to improve it.
2020-07-12 14:54:07		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-12 15:14:40		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-12 15:18:29	dkibi	ganh 2min after I put up the request for suggestsions for tty games I start to listen to a podcast about Jon Ingold (https://www.idlethumbs.net/designernotes/episodes/jon-ingold-part-1)
2020-07-12 15:18:50	dkibi	of course I never really tried parser based IF and that would work very well on a tty
2020-07-12 16:24:36	dozens	dkibi: nethack has always been kind of complicated to me too, but dcss seems more simple, has a great tutorial, and has been a lot of fun to me: https://crawl.tildeverse.org/
2020-07-12 16:29:21	m68k	yeah that's definitely how i feel. I played nethack for a while maaaany years ago, then found dcss, and played that with graphics for many years
2020-07-12 16:48:59	makeworld	Lol @ a link shortener, I'm pretty sure Solderpunk has explicitly
2020-07-12 16:49:18	makeworld	talked about not liking them and wanting to make them unnecessary from a protocol perspective
2020-07-12 16:49:38	makeworld	luna's offline now but nothing wrong with going for it ofc
2020-07-12 16:49:58	makeworld	We might just have to watch Solderpunk twitch and force a smile ;)
2020-07-12 16:50:40	makeworld	Also I figured out my gemini app idea, I'll be building it this week :D
2020-07-12 17:07:39	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 17:13:12	makeworld	brainfunnel what's good
2020-07-12 17:13:37	djph	there has to be a better way to write pages ...
2020-07-12 17:17:42	makeworld	Wdym?
2020-07-12 17:18:30	djph	vim guy, have forcibly wrapped at 72 characters for years.  The "paragraphs are actually runon lines" doesn't play well with that
2020-07-12 17:18:50	makeworld	Ah yeah, it's a bit of change
2020-07-12 17:19:01	makeworld	It wouldn't be hard to write a tool that converts them for you though
2020-07-12 17:19:22	makeworld	One regex I think
2020-07-12 17:19:41	makeworld	Well lots of things are *one* regex lol
2020-07-12 17:19:43	djph	somewhat there already ... just have to make sure I'm not missing anything obvious (like preformatted text)
2020-07-12 17:20:07	makeworld	Yeah, that would be the harder case to handle, not touching anything in those blocks
2020-07-12 17:20:37	makeworld	Off the top of my head the basic regex would replace any newline that didn't have another newline on either side of it with a space
2020-07-12 17:21:20	djph	although, I did hack piping to lpr into av98 because I was bored
2020-07-12 17:21:31	djph	yeah, that's what I'm thinking too
2020-07-12 17:21:38	makeworld	Like you printed gemini sites?
2020-07-12 17:21:43	djph	although I went with "any newline followed by a-z
2020-07-12 17:22:12	djph	yeah, because its easier to read the gemtext markup on paper ...
2020-07-12 17:23:28	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 17:23:54	⚡	djph has know about "gemini" for like 20 hours, and has slept 8 of them.
2020-07-12 17:24:25	djph	err, "read the gemtext intro on paper"
2020-07-12 17:24:49	brainfunnel	mood
2020-07-12 17:25:09	makeworld	Oh haha
2020-07-12 17:25:14	brainfunnel	ive only been 'in' on gemini for a week, got castor and started following spacewalk and capcom
2020-07-12 17:25:29	makeworld	Real geminauts only browse through paper
2020-07-12 17:26:23	brainfunnel	its cool as hell. joined IRC again 4 real when I found out about this and the gopher channel
2020-07-12 17:27:17	makeworld	Same here, this is basically my only IRC channel
2020-07-12 17:27:24	djph	It seems to follow in the way that I remember people talked about "the web" 30 years ago
2020-07-12 17:28:21	djph	I'm all over the place, from helping Linux converts to poking around at microcontrollers and such
2020-07-12 17:28:34	djph	and this newest 'gemini' rabbithole
2020-07-12 17:33:50	djph	now all I need is a lineprinter and greenbar
2020-07-12 17:36:15	kensanata	Haha
2020-07-12 17:42:29	login	Ruby Gemini
2020-07-12 17:43:30	djph	can't send my (embarassingly hacky) code to the guy who wrote av98 though, since I'm slow and haven't figured out the whole tilde thing yet
2020-07-12 17:44:46	login	what is av98 though
2020-07-12 17:45:20	djph	gemini client
2020-07-12 17:45:59	mhj	Heyo Geminarz, what's new on with you cats on Mars
2020-07-12 17:55:25	djph	mhj: not a whole lot here.  Still wrapping my head around the program and all
2020-07-12 18:11:38	dkibi	dozens: I will give it a try
2020-07-12 18:24:29	⚡	kensanata writes little Perl scripts for uploading and downloading...
2020-07-12 18:31:31	mhj	Ahh I see djph. I have the same feeling.
2020-07-12 18:31:47	mhj	I use the molly gemini server.
2020-07-12 18:32:10	mhj	And for browsing, either av-98 or bombadillo
2020-07-12 18:41:38	djph	mhj: yeah, i grabbed av98 - it seems nice enough.  Dunno what server I'm gonna use ... I didn't see molly in the (manually curated) list
2020-07-12 18:41:54	djph	oh wait .. "The Unsinkable Molly Brown" ?
2020-07-12 18:44:50	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 18:45:02	lukee	evening all
2020-07-12 18:48:20	makeworld	Afternoon
2020-07-12 18:48:23	⚡	makeworld tips hat
2020-07-12 18:50:54		everbern_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-12 18:54:59	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 19:01:16	dozens	i mostly use av98 and prefer its UI, but also like bombadillo for that multiprotocol support
2020-07-12 19:02:49	lukee	makeworld: I've got a first POC of using the new -m and -t flags from gemget
2020-07-12 19:03:02	lukee	seems to work nicely thanks!
2020-07-12 19:03:25	lukee	I just need to build a bit of UI so the user can set them him/herself
2020-07-12 19:04:57	makeworld	Nice!
2020-07-12 19:06:10	lukee	so images can now be displayed in GemiNaut directly. Probably will prompt other binary files to be saved to a user chosen location
2020-07-12 19:06:11	⚡	xq pokes makeworld
2020-07-12 19:06:24	lukee	or user/downloads
2020-07-12 19:06:27	@xq	can you find motivation for me? :D
2020-07-12 19:06:44	makeworld	Is this about my latest issue(s)? Lol
2020-07-12 19:06:47	@xq	yep :D
2020-07-12 19:06:50	@xq	but in general
2020-07-12 19:06:59	@xq	i'd like to continue, but there's so much interesting stuff going on
2020-07-12 19:07:28	makeworld	Continue with what?
2020-07-12 19:08:38	@xq	Kristall development
2020-07-12 19:08:43	@xq	i derailed into side projects atm
2020-07-12 19:08:57	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-07-12 19:09:00	@xq	i kinda feel that i owe the last update, but there's still planned stuff missing that i wanted to  do
2020-07-12 19:09:19	makeworld	The cert stuff is really awesome btw, the little shield icon in the sidebar, the ability to import, etc
2020-07-12 19:09:26	@xq	thanks :)
2020-07-12 19:09:31	@xq	i put a lot of thought into that
2020-07-12 19:09:48	@xq	but in the end, it was the interface that felt natural for this
2020-07-12 19:09:51	makeworld	It shows :)
2020-07-12 19:10:04	makeworld	Something to think about for Amfora...
2020-07-12 19:10:07	@xq	and you have all kind of sanity checks in there
2020-07-12 19:11:41	makeworld	Like what?
2020-07-12 19:12:13	makeworld	Sorry just don't know what you mean
2020-07-12 19:13:38	@xq	hehe
2020-07-12 19:13:42	@xq	didn't you notice?
2020-07-12 19:14:01	@xq	Kristall makes sure you don't leave client certs on when switching hosts
2020-07-12 19:14:11	@xq	or leaving the "valid area" for that certificate
2020-07-12 19:16:06	makeworld	Oh yeah, I did
2020-07-12 19:16:13	makeworld	You said "you" so I thought you mean me lol
2020-07-12 19:16:17	makeworld	But yeah, that's a great idea
2020-07-12 19:16:26	@xq	thanks for hinting twemoji
2020-07-12 19:21:55	makeworld	👍
2020-07-12 19:22:02	makeworld	You're welcome!
2020-07-12 19:35:55	lukee	makeworld: I think I may have another suggestion for gemget
2020-07-12 19:36:06	makeworld	What's that?
2020-07-12 19:36:13	lukee	which is a new -i flag for "interactive"
2020-07-12 19:36:41	lukee	my main motivation is that the progress bar is incredibly chatty in stderr
2020-07-12 19:36:55	lukee	and makes parsing the output awkward.
2020-07-12 19:37:07	lukee	So in my local copy I just disabled it
2020-07-12 19:37:36	lukee	but perhaps some users in some contexts find it useful, and there might be other interactive elements you might put in the future
2020-07-12 19:37:58	lukee	so -i would turn on these interactive/feedback elements, otherwise it is just data focussed
2020-07-12 19:38:02	lukee	what do you think?
2020-07-12 19:38:47	makeworld	Hm
2020-07-12 19:38:58	makeworld	I think it might be better to just have a flag for the progress bar
2020-07-12 19:40:07	makeworld	Also it shouldn't hinder parsing the the output, because the progress bar is on stdout while other messages are on stderr aren't they?
2020-07-12 19:42:09	lukee	maybe you're right (about it being on stdout not stderr) but I still have to parse both as the headers are in stdout and the other messages in stderr
2020-07-12 19:42:23	makeworld	Ah
2020-07-12 19:42:29	makeworld	Yeah it's a bit messy
2020-07-12 19:42:33	makeworld	Sorry about that
2020-07-12 19:42:37	makeworld	I made a new issue
2020-07-12 19:43:04	lukee	anyway its just the progress bar so maybe a -p for enable the progress bar would be fine
2020-07-12 19:45:18	makeworld	Yeah sounds good
2020-07-12 19:45:28	lukee	👍
2020-07-12 19:47:08	lukee	it seems to me command line applications need 3 output channels  not 2
2020-07-12 19:47:16	lukee	stdout: the content
2020-07-12 19:47:22	lukee	stderr: the errors
2020-07-12 19:47:32	lukee	stdmeta: the metadata!
2020-07-12 19:48:37	lukee	but who am I to cast aspersions on The Unix Way (TM)
2020-07-12 20:04:36	kensanata	lukee: I just wrote a script that prints some info on stderr and the data on stdout so that redirecting the output will do the right thing... I feel the pain!
2020-07-12 20:09:38	⚡	lukee looks in at the command line world as an infrequent visitor
2020-07-12 20:10:19	lukee	kensanata: yes it seems if you want piping and redirection etc you need to keep stdout clean in general for just the data
2020-07-12 20:11:01	lukee	so then the poor stderr channel gets overloaded with stuff that is part of the stream interaction, not just for errors
2020-07-12 20:11:39	lukee	is there a canonical way or idiom to deal with this?
2020-07-12 20:12:22	kensanata	I think the canonical way is just that: anything that you want users to see even though your stuff runs in a pipe goes to stderr.
2020-07-12 20:12:51	kensanata	Then control verbosity using a flag like --verbose, -v, -vv, or -vvv for increasing levels of verbosity.
2020-07-12 20:13:01	kensanata	Like I use --log_level=1 to 4
2020-07-12 20:13:27	lukee	hmmm
2020-07-12 20:14:15	lukee	and what about if there is important information for the client to have to interpret and maybe act on
2020-07-12 20:14:57	lukee	are these such messages mixed in with the general stream log?
2020-07-12 20:18:14	lukee	but I'm sort of surprised that stderr is generally used as a messaging channel not just for things that go wrong
2020-07-12 20:24:53	makeworld	Yeah it's kinda weird
2020-07-12 20:25:09	makeworld	It only needs to work that way if your app needs piping
2020-07-12 20:28:04	lukee	so its more like stdbackchannel not stderr!?
2020-07-12 20:28:41	lukee	and then exit codes do the formal notification or errors?
2020-07-12 20:29:11	lukee	or errors -> of errors
2020-07-12 20:34:01	makeworld	I guess... idk even apps that don't use piping tend to output debug info there
2020-07-12 20:34:08	makeworld	Maybe it's more like stddebug lol
2020-07-12 20:34:27	lukee	stdratsnest :)
2020-07-12 20:35:39	lukee	I'm being mean - at least there is the expectation that the user can assemble apps together in ways not anticipated by the original authors
2020-07-12 20:35:53	lukee	which has a lot to be said for it
2020-07-12 20:39:01		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-12 20:45:42	makeworld	Yeah, pipes are amazing
2020-07-12 21:12:49		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-12 21:24:53		jbg has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-12 21:25:04		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-12 21:25:04	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 22:27:17	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-12 23:03:12		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-12 23:54:19	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 01:07:13		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 02:52:18	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 03:47:52	▬▬▶	Nalaph_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 03:48:55	Nalaph_	does anyone have a link to where I can find a list of gemini servers?
2020-07-13 03:50:53		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-13 03:52:55		Nalaph_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 03:57:14	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 03:57:24	luna	Nalaph_: gemini://gus.guru/known-hosts
2020-07-13 03:58:02	Nalaph	thanks
2020-07-13 04:00:25	Nalaph	Sorry, I'm looking for actual Gemini server software, not known hosts
2020-07-13 04:01:05	luna	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/ has a good list
2020-07-13 04:09:13	Nalaph	how strange; Bombadillo doesn't display all the links on gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-07-13 04:09:19	Nalaph	if I open the page in Geminaut it works fine
2020-07-13 04:11:40	Nalaph	Thanks
2020-07-13 04:23:34		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 04:24:11	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 05:01:25		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 05:11:44	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 06:16:17	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 06:28:07	kensanata	Those client certificates continue to perplex me. I'm thinking that on the server side I might need SSL_verify_mode SSL_VERIFY_PEER with a custom SSL_verify_callback, but that doesn't seem to work: the server keeps not seeing the client cert.
2020-07-13 07:28:45	kensanata	Oh wow. I got a stand-alone example to work.
2020-07-13 07:28:59	kensanata	Tears of joy! 😭 😭 😭 😭
2020-07-13 08:13:38	kensanata	gemini://alexschroeder.ch/2020-07-13_Client_Certificates_and_IO%3a%3aSocket%3a%3aSSL_(Perl)
2020-07-13 09:13:17	@tomasino	Nalaph: did you specify gemini:// in bombadillo? it may have defaulted to the gopher version
2020-07-13 09:22:11	kensanata	tomasino: I've had somebody run into the same problem on my site using Elpher: those Gopher+Gemini clients are confusing people! :D
2020-07-13 09:46:06	djph	mornin'
2020-07-13 09:53:40	login	morning djph
2020-07-13 10:07:58	kensanata	yo
2020-07-13 10:09:31	djph	wrapping my head around this slowly.  Have to remember how to make TLS certs ... don't want to put a server "on the internet" without first playing around on a dev server
2020-07-13 10:13:07	kensanata	I added a "cert" target to my Makefile so I wouldn't have to remember it every time. :)
2020-07-13 10:13:32	kensanata	If you need a command line, I can paste what I use...
2020-07-13 10:13:49	djph	nice.  I mean, it's only gonna be self-signed ("regular" stuff is all handled by certbot)
2020-07-13 10:13:58	kensanata	Sure.
2020-07-13 10:14:58	djph	not hard, just off in lala land with it :)  maybe tonight after work
2020-07-13 10:15:45		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-13 11:11:11	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 11:40:06		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-13 13:55:47		jan6 has quit (Changing host)
2020-07-13 13:55:47	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 14:14:15	kensanata	I finally have a working example of how to use client certificates to limit Gemini Wiki editing... https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-wiki/about/#client-certificates
2020-07-13 14:21:18	login	good work
2020-07-13 14:21:21	login	are you alex schroeder?
2020-07-13 14:21:38	login	from ch==switzerland?
2020-07-13 14:22:45	tadzik	yay, Perl :)
2020-07-13 14:23:47	djph	neat kensanata
2020-07-13 14:27:30	@ben	yay .ch!
2020-07-13 14:28:28	kensanata	Yeah!
2020-07-13 14:28:50	kensanata	I am tempted to say "I am Kensanata from Chrono Trigger!"
2020-07-13 14:28:57	@ben	i miss .ch
2020-07-13 14:34:06	login	you can still go, but it's v expensive
2020-07-13 14:34:25	login	for some reason chf is very overvalued
2020-07-13 14:38:50	kensanata	It's like gold. People believe that in a crisis, the CHF will be strong, so money flows in, and the value goes up.
2020-07-13 14:39:07	kensanata	Sucks to be exporting from Switzerland, but good for the financial industry. It's a constant struggle.
2020-07-13 14:51:29	login	switzerland exports watches and stuff though
2020-07-13 14:51:36	login	ABB is in switzerland (electrical switch company)
2020-07-13 14:52:14	login	sounds like everybody in switzerland should sell their chf and have their money in a foreign currency account
2020-07-13 14:52:46	kensanata	Nah, we know that in a crisis people will push the CHF up...
2020-07-13 14:53:30	kensanata	Watches work because they're luxury items and are therefore far too expensive. That's why it's hard to make a business selling cheap Swiss watches. They would never be cheap enough.
2020-07-13 14:55:00	kensanata	Not sure about ABB. After all, it used to be BBC but then they got bought by the Swedes, not sure what caused the BBC fall. I'm thinking too much manufacturing and not enough engineering? These days all the big halls in Baden have other uses. ABB is more brains than turbines and generators, now.
2020-07-13 14:55:10	kensanata	At least from my perspective. What do you think?
2020-07-13 14:55:33	login	i know abb relays are used in power plants
2020-07-13 14:56:43	@ben	idk about abb but i miss sbb
2020-07-13 14:56:51	login	what do you know, rolex's website has an EV certificate
2020-07-13 14:57:05	kensanata	Hm, not sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown,_Boveri_%26_Cie#Reorganization_of_Brown_Boveri_in_1970 doesn't mention anything in particular.
2020-07-13 14:57:12	login	are swiss federal railways good?
2020-07-13 14:57:25	@ben	yes
2020-07-13 14:57:31	kensanata	login: Second only to the Japanese.
2020-07-13 15:07:41	login	so the japanese are number 1?
2020-07-13 15:07:48	login	why are japanese watches not that popular then?
2020-07-13 15:08:05	login	it just seems weird that switzerland is so "trusted" with respect to chf
2020-07-13 15:08:18	login	doesn't seem like people want chf to buy stuff made in switzerland at all
2020-07-13 15:08:35	login	it's just like the thing people buy because they know others will buy it too
2020-07-13 15:12:22	kensanata	Except in the case of parking your money, you actually win something...
2020-07-13 15:12:43	login	but the US gets those lists now
2020-07-13 15:12:46	login	it's not the haven it once was
2020-07-13 15:13:19	kensanata	Yeah, but last time I heard Switzerland still manages two thirds of all the wealth of private people in the world.
2020-07-13 15:13:41	kensanata	That's an amazing amount of dictators and corrupt men putting their money into our vaults
2020-07-13 15:15:20		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 15:15:54	kensanata	https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/deloitte-survey_switzerland-remains-top-international-wealth-management-hub/44111112
2020-07-13 15:15:58	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 15:16:12	kensanata	Gotta find a number to compare those $1.84 trillion to.
2020-07-13 15:21:04	kensanata	https://www.nzz.ch/articleET2NZ-1.96411?reduced=true says that Swiss banks manage 9% of global assets, CHF 4.4E12 in Switzerland, and if you include the assets managed by Swiss banks abroad, you get CHF 6.9E12.
2020-07-13 15:21:19	kensanata	And that was 2007
2020-07-13 15:26:18	@ben	wow that's wild
2020-07-13 15:41:00	kensanata	Merrill Lynch wrote in 2008 that "global HNWI wealth totaled US$40.7 trillion", let's make it CHF 40E12, so my initial statement was really far off.
2020-07-13 15:41:24	kensanata	https://web.archive.org/web/20081230124219/http://www.ml.com/media/100502.pdf
2020-07-13 15:42:31	kensanata	Anyway, I think I need to go for a little walk outside while the sun's up. CU all tomorrow. :)
2020-07-13 15:42:35		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-13 15:43:21	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 15:43:56	acdw	hello star people
2020-07-13 15:44:18	acdw	I was lazy this weekend and didn't get to hack on bollux...so the 2 people who use it are out of luck for now :P
2020-07-13 15:46:03	acdw	s/star people/starchildren
2020-07-13 16:15:11	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 16:18:51	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 18:02:27	ℹ 	acdw is now known as acdw-away
2020-07-13 19:23:48		anton has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-13 19:53:17	djph	hooray, I figured out how to get molly-brown to run, and got a text file to be readable
2020-07-13 19:53:37	djph	although it's a bit wonky in how it loads.  I must've missed a setting somewhere
2020-07-13 19:55:07	djph	... ah, there we go, "index" is named wrong.  Easy enough
2020-07-13 19:55:18		mhj has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 20:01:07	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 20:02:45		acdw-away has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 20:24:27	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 20:58:53	kevinsan	hi, does anyone know how often GUS crawls sites that are already in its index?
2020-07-13 20:59:56	makeworld	Roughly daily
2020-07-13 21:02:26		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-13 21:06:31		kevinsan has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 21:08:14	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 21:27:06	djph	now to figure out a better way of writing gemtext files ...
2020-07-13 21:30:59	kevinsan	what's your current way of writing gemtext files?
2020-07-13 21:32:47	djph	vim
2020-07-13 21:34:31	kevinsan	there is no better way
2020-07-13 21:35:50	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 21:36:56	djph	^ this is the way.
2020-07-13 21:36:58		kevinsan has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 21:37:15	djph	However, I have vim wrap at 72 characters, which gemtext spec is at odds with.
2020-07-13 21:37:20	▬▬▶	kevinsan_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 21:39:58	ℹ 	kevinsan_ is now known as kevinsan
2020-07-13 21:40:39	natpen	kevinsan: It used to be more like daily, like makeworld said, but GUS currently is getting more like 4-6 day recency for updates to existing content in the index. It actually takes several days to even run the crawl now! I started a crawl this morning though, so hopefully will have a new index in a day or two.
2020-07-13 21:44:35	kevinsan	I'm surprised by how long it takes - how many sites/pages are you visiting?
2020-07-13 21:46:25	natpen	about 30k - but the majority come from a small number of domains that happen to all have long crawl_delays set in their robots.txt's, which GUS does its best to respect.
2020-07-13 21:48:25	kevinsan	That's a shame - given hardware specs vs weight of content, I imagine crawls are a tiny fraction of resource usage.
2020-07-13 21:49:16		StygianBlues has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-13 21:49:35	@tomasino	I use vim also, but with vim-pencil
2020-07-13 21:49:43	@tomasino	:PencilSoft
2020-07-13 21:49:46	@tomasino	Perfecto
2020-07-13 21:50:01	kevinsan	I wonder if this is just prevailing web wisdom being incorrectly applied to gemini space?
2020-07-13 21:50:52	@tomasino	crawl_delays well respected are great
2020-07-13 21:50:53	kevinsan	I recently saw some discussion on avoiding bot access to servers, which seemed weird given that bad actor bots on the web relate to spam, which is pretty much meaningless here.
2020-07-13 21:51:23	@tomasino	A big concern is web spiders sneaking in over proxies
2020-07-13 21:51:48	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-07-13 21:53:09	kevinsan	Again though, the actual hit to the server is so low. I agree that robots.txt should be respected, I just wonder if they inhibit the useful stuff for little gain.
2020-07-13 21:54:12	kevinsan	I suppose I have only just spun up a server, perhaps I will eat my words in due course!
2020-07-13 22:07:37	natpen	It possible to differentiate with robots.txt fwiw, as they're currently used (which is also just a convention, so always open to new ideas/discussion) - you could do "*" crawl_delay of something high, or "proxy" crawl_delay of something high, and "gus" crawl_delay of something lower. The discussion of "proxy" UA was light discussion... so not really sure if anyone would respect it though :)
2020-07-13 22:20:09	kevinsan	natpen, if I don't specify a robots.txt file, will you simply crawl as fast as you can, or should I provide one to effectively tell you it's ok to do so?
2020-07-13 22:22:04	natpen	I think I default to 500ms!
2020-07-13 22:24:19	djph	aw drat, av98 doesn't support mailto://
2020-07-13 22:31:29	kevinsan	it looks quite hackable to add other protocol support - https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/AV-98/src/branch/master/av98.py#L307
2020-07-13 23:33:23	djph	yeah, I hacked lpr into it already :)
2020-07-13 23:33:47	djph	gotta get myself a tilde account somewhere so I can get a tildegit account and proper fork it...
2020-07-13 23:36:08	@ben	i can make you a tildegit acct
2020-07-13 23:36:20	@ben	or also i'm around to process signups on tilde.team :)
2020-07-13 23:36:42	@ben	if u just want tildegit, pm me an email
2020-07-14 00:12:57	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 00:46:45		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-14 01:53:25	kayw	yaaaaaay, i got word wrapping working
2020-07-14 01:53:33	kayw	and it does preformatted text just great
2020-07-14 01:53:58	kayw	i just need to select a name sooner or later, get links working and some other things, and my client will be complete
2020-07-14 02:17:41		styan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-14 02:18:18		links has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-14 02:18:23		yali has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-14 02:20:23	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 02:20:28	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 02:20:39	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 02:29:25	luna	i'm still thinking of hosting who knows what over gemini, just have to get past freebsd jails throwing me for a loop lol
2020-07-14 02:40:33	Nalaph	Is konpeito.media down for anyone else or am I just having issues again/
2020-07-14 02:40:51	Nalaph	I can hit the gopher but not the gemini
2020-07-14 02:44:17	luna	gemini on that domain doesn't seem to be working for me either
2020-07-14 02:56:17		Nalaph has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-14 02:59:14	kayw	yeah i just tried it like, 30 mins ago
2020-07-14 02:59:16	kayw	its down
2020-07-14 03:31:11	luna	you talking about word wrapping convinced me to try making my own
2020-07-14 04:30:32	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 04:39:01		coleman has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-14 04:39:02		Ekkie has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-14 04:39:02		creme has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-14 06:12:13	luna	...and somehow i actually ended up managing to do it
2020-07-14 06:12:15	luna	lol
2020-07-14 06:30:09	kensanata	What did you do?
2020-07-14 06:48:00	luna	simple text wrapping
2020-07-14 06:48:48	luna	i'm probably more proud of it than i should be lol
2020-07-14 06:49:19		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-14 06:58:45		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-14 06:59:31	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 07:30:55	@xq	makeworld: sadly, tweemoji is utterly useless. it's not a font
2020-07-14 07:31:03	@xq	it's svg icons :(
2020-07-14 07:33:09	@xq	i could try embedding images in the documents
2020-07-14 07:33:31	@xq	but i'm not really a fan of that, it would be against the "only text rendering" philosophy
2020-07-14 07:34:06	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 07:37:48	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 09:39:17	djph	xq: yes, "emoji" are utterly useless.
2020-07-14 09:44:04	kensanata	Noooo!
2020-07-14 09:45:06	djph	hi kensanata
2020-07-14 09:56:35	@xq	djph: i love emojis, but as a font component, not as images embedded in text
2020-07-14 09:58:59	djph	There is one locale, and it is "C" (I'm kidding, UTF-8 is alright)
2020-07-14 10:55:26		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-14 11:09:40	kensanata	I love custom emojis the way they are used in Mastodon. This is what will save us from adding a picture of every single word to Unicode 666.
2020-07-14 11:10:06	kensanata	Already it is full of pictures of technological artifacts we no longer use.
2020-07-14 11:10:22	kensanata	What will it be like in 10,000 years? Ludicrous.
2020-07-14 11:26:28	kensanata	I think I'm going to start Gemini Wiki hosting on a new domain.
2020-07-14 11:27:16	kensanata	Sometimes I wonder. How many domains are too many domains?
2020-07-14 11:27:28	kensanata	That's going to be #10.
2020-07-14 11:33:28	kensanata	The question of ports is still annoying me. I think I will add layers upon layers of code to Gemini Wiki until it starts serving all sorts of dope stuff under the hood.
2020-07-14 11:34:07	kensanata	Like a kraken, it will proxy requests to Wikipedia, to my homepage, to communitywiki, and so on. It will be beautiful and terrifying.
2020-07-14 11:59:22	dkibi	well there are regular scripts that use one ~one glyphe/word
2020-07-14 11:59:52	dkibi	with emoji imho it's more that it's controled by apple/google/etc. that delegitmizes it
2020-07-14 12:02:23	djph	kensanata: he-who-should-not-be-named of gemini.
2020-07-14 12:04:21	kensanata	Hm. I think the Unicode board, and the process of getting new emojis added is pretty OK in as far as such big things go, but that's why little SVG graphics are so much better.
2020-07-14 12:04:22	kensanata	I don't know whether you know how this works in Mastodon? Essentially every admin an add more emoji to their system, and the tiny SVG that defines it will get sent along with messages to other systems where users might not be able to type that emoji, but they'll still be able to read it.
2020-07-14 12:05:05	kensanata	I think it's cool, federated, small scale, perfect. All it requires is that all the client authors be able to handle it (haha) ... but if you just display the short names, people are still going to be ok. :thinking-face:
2020-07-14 12:06:49	ine	><kensanata> I love custom emojis the way they are used in Mastodon.
2020-07-14 12:06:51	ine	how does it do it?
2020-07-14 12:08:21	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 12:08:23	@julienxx	hi there!
2020-07-14 12:09:17	@julienxx	I have issues accessing some capsules under my current OpenBSD, can you access geddit.pitr.ca without issues? I have SSL issues with Castor or AV-98 so I guess it's more a problem with my system.
2020-07-14 12:09:56	@tomasino	lemme check from black
2020-07-14 12:10:10	rb100	works here for me
2020-07-14 12:10:12	@tomasino	workis fine
2020-07-14 12:10:47	@julienxx	Ok thanks, I'm running OpenBSD 6.7-current so there might be something with the latest LibreSSL (3.2.1 here)
2020-07-14 12:11:30	@tomasino	i'm on 3.0.2
2020-07-14 12:11:31	kensanata	Works from here, too
2020-07-14 12:11:44	@tomasino	libressl, that is
2020-07-14 12:12:02	kensanata	ine: I don't know the details. What I wrote is what little I know as a user.
2020-07-14 12:12:25	@tomasino	for cgi's on jetforce, i just need them in a cgi-bin folder and executable?
2020-07-14 12:12:55	@julienxx	that's how cgi works in molly-brown at least
2020-07-14 12:12:57	rb100	julienxx: i was on win10 with openssl 1.1.1f if that helps
2020-07-14 12:16:21	@tomasino	hrm
2020-07-14 12:16:26	@tomasino	oh, i need to return the header
2020-07-14 12:17:16	@tomasino	hrm, that didn't work
2020-07-14 12:17:35	@tomasino	um, anyone have an example of a working shell-script cgi?
2020-07-14 12:18:32	@julienxx	I have one in python if you want
2020-07-14 12:18:36	@tomasino	sure
2020-07-14 12:18:46	@julienxx	I know I struggled with the crlf
2020-07-14 12:18:50	@tomasino	yeah
2020-07-14 12:19:11	@tomasino	printf "20\r\n" # isn't cutting it
2020-07-14 12:19:16	@tomasino	i need more, i guess
2020-07-14 12:19:27	kensanata	echo -e "20 text/plain\r\nhello\n"
2020-07-14 12:19:48	@tomasino	maybe i need the text/gemini
2020-07-14 12:19:58	kensanata	Yeah, MIME type for sure.
2020-07-14 12:20:06	@tomasino	yep
2020-07-14 12:20:07	@tomasino	that's it
2020-07-14 12:20:08	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/cgi-bin/iching
2020-07-14 12:20:09	kensanata	Also, printf is tricky if the text ever includes a %
2020-07-14 12:20:36	@julienxx	tomasino: https://paste.sr.ht/~julienxx/4b3aabc22d1cb194146b3c1f7ff71255a48a6df6 it the 9til.de manpage browser
2020-07-14 12:20:59	@tomasino	i made this yesterday, so i just tweaked it a bit for this script
2020-07-14 12:21:00	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/iching
2020-07-14 12:21:08	@tomasino	i'll add my header stuff back in
2020-07-14 12:21:21	@julienxx	using plan 9 rc shell I wasn't able to send a proper crlf so I switched to python
2020-07-14 12:25:18	@julienxx	gemini yi jing is great idea tomasino!
2020-07-14 12:25:29	@tomasino	i need to mess with the randomizer
2020-07-14 12:25:34	@tomasino	it's too fast right now
2020-07-14 12:25:59	@tomasino	the two hexagrams are generating very close together
2020-07-14 12:26:45	@tomasino	od -An -N1 -i /dev/random | tr -d '[:space:]'
2020-07-14 12:26:57	@tomasino	i was doing this on the interactive version, trusting the machine entropy 
2020-07-14 12:27:13	@tomasino	who's got a more reliable random function that's shell portable?
2020-07-14 12:28:35	@tomasino	done
2020-07-14 12:28:43	@tomasino	i just set RANDOM=$$ and used $RANDOM
2020-07-14 12:28:44	@tomasino	meh
2020-07-14 12:31:20	@tomasino	there, fin.
2020-07-14 12:39:36	@tomasino	and added a link on the homepage
2020-07-14 12:43:19	⚡	tiwesdaeg waves
2020-07-14 12:43:40	~tiwesdaeg	I've been busy on a non tilde/gemini related project
2020-07-14 12:45:09	@tomasino	hiya tiwesdaeg 
2020-07-14 12:45:26	~tiwesdaeg	9tilde #soon...
2020-07-14 12:45:41	~tiwesdaeg	tomasino: I watched that Eurovision movie
2020-07-14 12:46:13	~tiwesdaeg	lots of Iceland
2020-07-14 12:56:28	@tomasino	i need to check it out
2020-07-14 12:56:29	@tomasino	:)
2020-07-14 12:56:33	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/cgi-bin/about-iching.gmi
2020-07-14 12:56:36	@tomasino	i added an about page
2020-07-14 12:58:00	kensanata	My Gemini sites are down as I try to build the kraken...
2020-07-14 13:01:17	@tomasino	Release the kraken!
2020-07-14 13:03:35	kensanata	Pictures are back up...
2020-07-14 13:03:47	kensanata	But not much else.
2020-07-14 13:13:50	@ben	julienxx: I think tls1.3 is broken in libressl 3.2
2020-07-14 13:28:55	@julienxx	Might be, used to work fine on LibreSSL 3.2.0 though
2020-07-14 13:34:29	▬▬▶	mojisd has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 13:35:14	mojisd	hi
2020-07-14 13:36:46		mojisd has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-14 13:42:13	@tomasino	my first plant harvest!
2020-07-14 13:48:01	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 13:51:36	thewetcrab	Hello, old time small intenet friends. I was just looking at some internet nostalgia and understand in the 'old days' when there was no Google, it was universities who ran mail servers, web servers, ftp servers etc.
2020-07-14 13:51:48	thewetcrab	So I want to pose the question, why and how did we move away from universities running these services to putting them in the hands of large corporations?
2020-07-14 13:51:58	thewetcrab	Does anyone have any thoughts or facts on this?
2020-07-14 13:55:53	companion_cube	I imagine it's because large corporations weren't that large at first, and provided better service to people that were not just students?
2020-07-14 14:01:03	djph	thewetcrab: "people are dumb"  -- rather than learn it for themselves, they got in bed with google, AOL, Y!, etc.
2020-07-14 14:01:23	djph	And let's face it, when GOOG, Y!, etc. came around; it wasn't the same as today
2020-07-14 14:02:22	djph	gemini:// is essentially an identical -- go find out how to setup postfix, utilizing only gemini:// sites.
2020-07-14 14:02:31	djph	*identical parallel
2020-07-14 14:07:28	thewetcrab	companion_cube I think I am understanding what you are saying. I am also discussing this on #gopher and have reached the following thought …..
2020-07-14 14:07:50	thewetcrab	We had universities providing services first, this allowed academic people and students to use the internet.
2020-07-14 14:07:51	thewetcrab	Next as more people joined the internet it was the ISPs that came to provide these services to users.
2020-07-14 14:07:51	thewetcrab	And as the internet grew more, perhaps people didn't have the internet at home (so now isp) but they may like to use for example email on public internet access computers, e.g. accessing the internet in a library. so the likes of gmail filled that role?
2020-07-14 14:08:46	djph	thewetcrab: it'll vary by geographic region, but that's probably close enough
2020-07-14 14:10:48	companion_cube	djph: that's elitist
2020-07-14 14:10:59	companion_cube	"people are dumb" also apply to each one of us in other fields, I think
2020-07-14 14:11:24	companion_cube	and no one has time to dig deeply into each thing they use
2020-07-14 14:12:03	djph	companion_cube: am I (are we) not also "people" ?
2020-07-14 14:12:29	djph	but yes, it was poor wording.
2020-07-14 14:12:40	companion_cube	right :)
2020-07-14 14:13:02	companion_cube	also, even people in the know jumped on the gmail train in the oughties
2020-07-14 14:13:09	companion_cube	and enthusiastically so
2020-07-14 14:14:08	@tomasino	"don't be evil"
2020-07-14 14:14:09	@tomasino	:)
2020-07-14 14:14:25	djph	^ we all bought that hook,line,and sinker.
2020-07-14 14:14:38	djph	s/bought/took/
2020-07-14 14:15:45	djph	Although, I think many "in the know" only did it begrudgingly, as Google (et. al.) started deciding stuff like "oh, this small dotcom with a family of four on it isn't trustworthy"
2020-07-14 14:34:58	login	You can ask ben the kinds of problems he had trying to get Gmail not to block messages as spam
2020-07-14 14:35:12	@ben	I think they still mark me as spam
2020-07-14 14:35:14	login	even though he was following DKIM, DMARC and whatever else
2020-07-14 14:35:35	login	You just have to be big like Mailchimp, otherwise they don't trust you
2020-07-14 14:36:09	login	They didn't like that you didn't put an "unsubscribe" link in your emails
2020-07-14 14:36:35	login	and didn't use some kind of autoamtic unsubscribe thing that Google picks up and shows as a button inside Gmail
2020-07-14 14:36:39	@ben	who's they and what emails are you talking about
2020-07-14 14:38:53	login	they is gmail
2020-07-14 14:39:26	login	outlook.com/hotmail is even worse... i can't even put a "whitelist" filter to let some emails pass through their spam filter
2020-07-14 14:39:43	kensanata	Half the mailinglist I'm reading in my Junk folder.
2020-07-14 14:40:00	companion_cube	I use posteo, it's reasonably trustable imho
2020-07-14 14:40:05	kensanata	I get the feeling that protonmail.com in particular is hosed, even though I have *@protonmail.com in my whitelist.
2020-07-14 14:40:06	companion_cube	but yeah, the gmail monoculture is sad :(
2020-07-14 14:40:11	kensanata	And that's without Gmail!
2020-07-14 14:40:16	kensanata	(Migadu)
2020-07-14 14:40:28	kensanata	But I've set my spam filter to "paranoid" so there's that.
2020-07-14 14:41:11	login	What is Migadu?
2020-07-14 14:41:17	login	Gmail has a spam filter = paranoid?
2020-07-14 14:41:44	djph	well, that sparked some discussion ...
2020-07-14 14:42:00	djph	I "have" gmail, but it's mainly trash these days
2020-07-14 14:43:11	login	Why doesn't Gmail just allow downloading old emails to a physical drive, and then continuing ith the next 15-17 GB afresh?
2020-07-14 14:43:29	login	also, on mobile, there is no way to block Gmail ads
2020-07-14 14:43:32	login	in the Gmail app
2020-07-14 14:43:50	login	there is also no way to log into multiple Gmail accounts without "associating" each of them with the Android operating system
2020-07-14 14:43:57	login	and even Windows is moving in this direction with their apps
2020-07-14 14:44:22	tadzik	well, no reason to use the gmail app imo ;)
2020-07-14 14:45:21	login	what do you propose to do on smartphone then?
2020-07-14 14:46:02	tadzik	frankly, I don't even read my emails on my phone at all, but I do have my account added to whatever email client was preinstalled
2020-07-14 14:46:22	tadzik	I don't use gmail, but I'm pretty sure you can just add a gmail account to any app you want
2020-07-14 14:48:25	tadzik	oh, disclamer, perhaps important: I don't have google play services on my android phone, so the idea of "gmail associated with the OS" is not relevant in my case
2020-07-14 14:48:58	tadzik	still, I'd think that you can login to google with the OS itself, but without setting it up with The Gmail App[tm], no?
2020-07-14 14:49:07	companion_cube	gmail supports imaps, doesn't it?
2020-07-14 14:49:26	tadzik	yep
2020-07-14 14:49:53	djph	I use it with k9 mail ... but it's kind of a pain to do
2020-07-14 14:49:56	tadzik	it is just a regular email account, just with some inane "security" features
2020-07-14 14:50:36	tadzik	"oh no, you're now abroad, like every other week! Can't login through thunderbird anymore, but the exact same password in this browser I've never seen will do"
2020-07-14 14:50:51		links has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-14 14:51:23		yali has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-14 14:51:34		styan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-14 14:51:37	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 14:51:52	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 14:51:53	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 14:55:14	thewetcrab	login You do know it is possible to download all you mail from gmail? If not let me know I'll try explain more.
2020-07-14 15:02:30	wgreenhouse	login: gmail does allow downloading...just enable POP
2020-07-14 15:03:59	kensanata	OK, I think my site is once again available, in slightly reduced form...
2020-07-14 15:04:45	kensanata	I've packed the most important code from my Oddmuse-Gemini glue code in the config file of Gemini Wiki and now Gemini Wiki serves the Gemini part of my site...
2020-07-14 15:10:09	kensanata	Hm. Apache on my site with SSL serving 443. The Gemini server on my site serving HTTPS via 1965. How to proxy one to the other? Something isn't working. ProxyPass / http://localhost:1965 cannot due because HTTPS; https://localhost:1965 also cannot do because HTTPS?
2020-07-14 15:11:32	kensanata	I guess I want Rewrite...
2020-07-14 15:14:59	kensanata	Nah, this is stupid. A regular redirect should do!
2020-07-14 15:15:37	kensanata	Ah, except for /.well-known because of ACME gaaaa
2020-07-14 15:17:43	kensanata	WTF is the Apache2 Debian Default Page doing here.
2020-07-14 15:24:35	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 15:26:32	thewetcrab	login I think mbox is the system/format for downloading emails
2020-07-14 15:32:05	kensanata	I've downloaded all my Gmail in 2016 and started fresh.
2020-07-14 15:32:16	kensanata	Time to do it again, soon (and not start fresh)
2020-07-14 15:32:52	thewetcrab	I have plans to do the same. I'm just not sure what I would do with the mbox download or how I would manage / secure it......
2020-07-14 15:33:03	thewetcrab	What did you do with your inbox download kensanata?
2020-07-14 15:39:22	kensanata	thewetcrab: I put it on an external disk and forgot about it.
2020-07-14 15:39:28	kensanata	Archives are overrated.
2020-07-14 15:39:45	kensanata	These days I try to delete all the mail I read, at home in any case.
2020-07-14 15:40:07	kensanata	I keep stuff that looks like corp comms, bills, receits, promises, that kind of stuff.
2020-07-14 15:40:11	thewetcrab	Yeah sure I kind of agree, but I also feel like I might want to go back and delete things everyonce in w hile.
2020-07-14 15:50:00	djph	thewetcrab: "secure" it by sticking it on a well labeled external drive (and a duplicate elsewhere), and then unplug the drive.
2020-07-14 15:53:57	thewetcrab	encrypt and unplug? ha ha ??
2020-07-14 15:56:00	djph	well, encryption is optional.  I prefer the "physically keep it in a lockbox" approach
2020-07-14 16:00:53	kensanata	Aaaand transjovian.org is up!
2020-07-14 16:11:33	djph	nice
2020-07-14 16:11:48	djph	I wonder if mine's accessible to the world ...
2020-07-14 16:15:52	rb100	 /quit
2020-07-14 16:15:55		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-14 16:17:19	@tomasino	huzzah!
2020-07-14 16:17:22	@tomasino	i fell asleep
2020-07-14 16:17:27	djph	oops?
2020-07-14 16:17:42	@tomasino	a bit
2020-07-14 16:17:44	@tomasino	but, meh
2020-07-14 16:17:50	@tomasino	i wfh and set my own hours
2020-07-14 16:27:13		thewetcrab has left #gemini
2020-07-14 18:21:57	▬▬▶	travis_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 18:22:29	ℹ 	travis_ is now known as travisfw
2020-07-14 18:23:25		travisfw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-14 18:23:27	▬▬▶	travisfw has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 20:29:27		travisfw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-14 21:20:54	▬▬▶	travisfw has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 21:22:28		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-14 21:52:09	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 22:04:08	djph	tomasino: i wfh; but don't get to set my own hours ... :(
2020-07-14 22:08:15	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 22:19:40	@tomasino	That's halfway awesome
2020-07-14 22:21:16	djph	For the longest time I didn't mind it.  5A to 1P localtime ... though recent layoffs have meant one of the key US-shift guys is no longer there, and now it's coming all onto my shoulders
2020-07-14 22:22:20	@tomasino	Blerg
2020-07-14 22:22:54	djph	oh, i loved it - the UK-based team is a group of awesome people.  I would've beaten the US team boss to death with his own left arm.
2020-07-14 22:23:11	@tomasino	Today I worked 13-15, then some emails at 21:30-22:00
2020-07-14 22:24:40	djph	hmm, I wonder if things work ... someone mind checking if gemini://gemini.djph.net/~gemini/  comes up?
2020-07-14 22:26:45	djph	(i know, I'm oh so very not clever when it comes to naming)
2020-07-14 22:35:13	kevinsan	"It works!"
2020-07-14 22:40:11	djph	yay!
2020-07-14 22:40:22	djph	I still remember how to port forward :D
2020-07-14 22:41:31		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-14 22:51:21	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-14 22:51:53	acdw	Hey yall, quick question: do you know if it'd be at all possible to write a 100% web-app, in-browser javascript gemini client?
2020-07-14 22:52:24	epoch	it wouldn't work.
2020-07-14 22:52:35	epoch	javascript can't do raw sockets
2020-07-14 22:52:45	epoch	so you can't make a proper gemini request
2020-07-14 22:54:01	epoch	the gemini servers would see "GET URL" instead of just "URL" as the request if you tries to use XMLRequest or whatever
2020-07-14 22:54:55	acdw	I was afraid of that :/
2020-07-14 22:55:04	epoch	unless those can be tricked into doing "weird" requests...
2020-07-14 22:55:11	acdw	I *did* find this: https://github.com/digitalbazaar/forge
2020-07-14 22:55:12	epoch	there /is/ a spot you put "GET" or "POST" or whaver
2020-07-14 22:55:22	epoch	what would happen if you replaced those with the URL?
2020-07-14 22:55:24	acdw	do you think there's a way that could work?
2020-07-14 22:55:43	epoch	possibly, but it'd be a hack that might get patched at any time
2020-07-14 22:55:56	acdw	TBH, I have very little javascript experience; I was kicking the tires on whether this'd be a decnt project to learn on
2020-07-14 22:56:22	acdw	epoch: thanks so much for the advice. I'll play with it some more but won't hang my hat on it, as it were
2020-07-14 22:56:30	epoch	that's javascript alright, but node doesn't run in a browser
2020-07-14 22:56:59	acdw	ah. yep that might be the issue, lol
2020-07-14 22:57:19	epoch	you know, more things going over HTTP just makes a larger attack surface for browser-based malware
2020-07-14 22:57:26	epoch	hrm
2020-07-14 22:57:32	djph	javascript can just die
2020-07-14 22:57:33	acdw	I tried to just ... *load* it in a test HTML file, but it couldn't. I thought it might have to do with like, using a local file
2020-07-14 22:57:38	djph	along with now-dead flash
2020-07-14 22:58:05	acdw	djph: I'm not arguing there! I'm just stuck at work a lot and thought it'd be fun to program a gemini gateway
2020-07-14 22:58:57	epoch	acdw: I have a non-100% gemini client attempt
2020-07-14 22:59:07	epoch	it uses a server-side script to actually do the request
2020-07-14 22:59:28	epoch	but does all the response parsing and handling in javascript
2020-07-14 22:59:34	acdw	oh yes, that's I'm sure no problem. We have portal.mozz.us and proxy.vulpes.one in fact...
2020-07-14 22:59:49	acdw	but the host I was playing with specifically didn't have any server-side scripting
2020-07-14 22:59:54	acdw	or I don't think it does
2020-07-14 23:00:05	acdw	thought I'd love to see your code!
2020-07-14 23:00:34	acdw	I actually have to leave (leaving work ... sorry) but you can email me at acdw@acdw.net
2020-07-14 23:00:38	acdw	thanks so much yall!!!
2020-07-14 23:00:41		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-14 23:00:47	epoch	ha.
2020-07-14 23:00:48	epoch	kk
2020-07-15 00:01:08	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 00:59:27		travisfw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 01:13:56	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 01:20:53	djph	yay, my site's got a very basic amount of "stuff" now
2020-07-15 01:25:04	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 01:32:36	luna	nice little place you got there
2020-07-15 01:33:04	djph	if I can remember to keep it updated, all the better
2020-07-15 01:33:19	djph	(cue this time next month and I haven't written a thing)
2020-07-15 01:33:33	luna	haha yeah, i have that problem a lot with things
2020-07-15 01:34:25	djph	I certainly like the idea of it.  I'm not sure I like it or "old style(tm)" static HTML better
2020-07-15 01:35:29	luna	i love how easy gmi is to parse, but also do like plain html
2020-07-15 01:36:00	luna	markdown always felt like the best compromise to me
2020-07-15 01:40:31	Sario528	Is there anyone here that's gotten Bombadillo running on termux?
2020-07-15 01:40:36	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 01:45:31	djph	luna: yeah, the _only_ thing I find marginally distasteful is the "paragraphs are long lines"
2020-07-15 01:45:44	djph	Sario528: I have not tried that, what is it?
2020-07-15 01:46:23	luna	yeah, it's kind of annoying when you're working in a text editor but i can see why it was chosen
2020-07-15 01:46:47	djph	It makes processing on the browser side easier
2020-07-15 01:47:19	Sario528	bombadillo is a multi-protocol client that supports gemini, termux is an android terminal app
2020-07-15 01:47:41	djph	I guess if I were earlier in on the project, I would ask how many people are expected to be accessing this on screens wider than ~80 characters
2020-07-15 01:47:46	djph	:D
2020-07-15 01:50:21	luna	i suppose the same could be said for people who access it on screens that display much less than 80 characters a line
2020-07-15 01:53:20	djph	I s'pose an argument for 40 could be made
2020-07-15 02:11:40		krjst has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 02:11:49	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 06:06:21	luna	thinking of going with a basic distro and lxc/lxd instead of freebsd
2020-07-15 07:56:10	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 07:57:41	kensanata	🚀🚀
2020-07-15 07:58:52	@julienxx	👨‍🚀🚀👩‍🚀
2020-07-15 07:59:04	kensanata	Hah!
2020-07-15 08:03:03	kensanata	Is there anybody here who knows about Let's Encrypt and switching an existing certificate for foo.bar to foo.bar and *.foo.bar? I'm getting a weird error message about the old cert being http01 and the new one requiring dns01 or something.
2020-07-15 08:08:09	luna	i think you need to do a dns or tls challenge for wildcard certs
2020-07-15 08:08:12	luna	https://letsencrypt.org/docs/challenge-types/
2020-07-15 08:14:37	kensanata	luna: Ah, thanks. That seems relevant.
2020-07-15 08:18:04	kensanata	Reading all that, I'm thinking perhaps I don't need Let's Encrypt certificates for a wildcard cert. 🤩
2020-07-15 08:32:48	kensanata	Weird, somebody seems to be crawling my gopher UI
2020-07-15 08:33:11	kensanata	Being very nice about that 5s crawl delay.
2020-07-15 08:33:33	@tomasino	That's nice of them
2020-07-15 08:34:05	kensanata	Hm, now that I look at my robots.txt I see that the craw delay is actually 10s!
2020-07-15 08:34:15	kensanata	And I see them crawling history links as well...
2020-07-15 08:34:17	kensanata	Hm.
2020-07-15 08:36:26	epoch	since when did LE start doing wildcard certs?
2020-07-15 08:36:57	epoch	oh. neat.
2020-07-15 08:50:23	kensanata	Anybody know their way about lsof? There must be a better way to call it than lsof | grep :1965
2020-07-15 08:50:51	epoch	I saw one of those the other day
2020-07-15 08:50:57	epoch	lsof -i maybe?
2020-07-15 08:51:03	epoch	TO THE MAN PAGE
2020-07-15 08:51:28	epoch	lsof -i :port ?
2020-07-15 08:51:53	epoch	yeah
2020-07-15 08:52:06	epoch	/bin/sh: 1: lsof: not found
2020-07-15 08:52:08	epoch	boo
2020-07-15 08:52:54	kensanata	epoch: AAH! I must have tried it without the colon for a hundred times.
2020-07-15 08:52:56	kensanata	Thanks!
2020-07-15 08:53:08	epoch	np
2020-07-15 08:58:23	epoch	https://mastodon.social/@climagic/104512824473130988
2020-07-15 08:58:37	epoch	that's where my brain picked it up
2020-07-15 09:01:03	kensanata	Nice
2020-07-15 09:01:22		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 10:04:06		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-15 10:31:16	djph	kensanata: I just add new domain names to my LE cert.  it's just easier for me that way :/
2020-07-15 10:34:05	kensanata	djph: Yeah, I'm coming around to that.
2020-07-15 10:37:26	djph	dns-01 and wildcard would ultimately be easier (new djph.net? great, don't have to worry)
2020-07-15 10:37:40	djph	but ... I update oh so very often ...
2020-07-15 10:59:29	▬▬▶	Shufei has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 11:48:02	~tiwesdaeg	I keep a script file with my certbot command and tack on '-d domain.name' whenever I add a new one then run it again
2020-07-15 12:04:57	kensanata	I use dehydrate myself... a shell script that takes all the domains from a text file so it's not that complicated to set it all up.
2020-07-15 12:24:09	kevinsan	I use acme.sh (https://github.com/acmesh-official/acme.sh) - also a shell script & GPL
2020-07-15 13:13:09	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 13:13:32	@ben	I use certbot rfc2136 dns plugin
2020-07-15 13:13:41	@ben	very handy
2020-07-15 13:15:45	natpen	Morning everyone :) GUS is experiencing a rapid unscheduled disassembly! (hopefully followed by a rapid reassembly)
2020-07-15 13:21:09	kevinsan	natpen, what provoked such destructive action?
2020-07-15 13:22:41	natpen	oh, just the usual combination of lack of forethought and carelessness :P
2020-07-15 13:23:34	natpen	I'm trying to make GUS do incremental crawls better so it can update much more frequently, but the new backlinks feature is hard to combine with that
2020-07-15 13:24:26	kevinsan	what's your crawl/index infrastructure (did you roll your own?)
2020-07-15 13:26:22	natpen	it's all homebuilt. it used to be so simple! <looks at it now, warily>
2020-07-15 13:27:14	natpen	it's basically just a python crawler that builds a big whoosh (tf-idf, basically think elasticsearch/lucene on a small scale) index.
2020-07-15 13:28:30	kevinsan	I feel your pain - I built http://kakapo.susa.net:8080/cfs/ and learned that search is harder than I realised.
2020-07-15 13:28:42	kevinsan	So much code went into producing that simple index.
2020-07-15 13:31:07	natpen	I believe it! Search is a much deeper problem than it appears at first glance. I think it's a really fun problem to work on though.
2020-07-15 13:31:48	natpen	Your site is really interesting though, the idea of incorporating number of ublock hits is really interesting and creative!
2020-07-15 13:33:03	kensanata	Hah, I hadn't seen that before. Very cool idea!
2020-07-15 13:34:03	kevinsan	Yes, it works at least as well as I'd hoped, probably better. I did have a better index built, but had to change tack when Google started hampering uBlock Origin.
2020-07-15 13:54:55		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 14:01:48	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 14:03:56	djph	ugh google
2020-07-15 14:04:40	djph	hm, gonna have to figure out a way to ensure mimetypes don't get wonky on the sig
2020-07-15 14:04:46	djph	maybe change the filename...
2020-07-15 14:12:43	kensanata	The idea of wiki namespaces, mixing both namespaces based on domain, and namespaces specified on the commandline, and mixing the two... perhaps that wasn't such a great idea. Argh!
2020-07-15 14:13:35	djph	that sounds like it could get confounding
2020-07-15 15:31:45		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 15:39:57	kensanata	Aaahh! I think I did it.
2020-07-15 15:40:00	kensanata	The tests pass.
2020-07-15 15:40:34	kensanata	No comes the pudding-eating (or dog-food eating, more likely): will it work in production‽
2020-07-15 15:48:47	kevinsan	Firefox Readability Mode via CLI: https://gitlab.com/gardenappl/readability-cli - this is something I wanted to write, no need to bother now! Might be useful for people here...
2020-07-15 16:06:02	kensanata	kevinsan: Yeah, interesting!
2020-07-15 16:29:15	kevinsan	The HTML it produces seems to work well with html2text. Using -width 5000 effectively outputs line-oriented markup, and the html2textrc parameters might even be useable to generate gemtext.
2020-07-15 16:57:03	kevinsan	This gemini://gemini.susa.net/test.gmi is a BBC News article created via readbale piped through html2text configured to generate gemtext.
2020-07-15 16:57:05	kevinsan	No post-processing at all.
2020-07-15 16:58:15	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 17:29:34		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 18:02:52	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 18:03:25	makeworld	Wohoo, Amfora is on the ssh kiosk!
2020-07-15 18:04:29	luna	just saw that message, can't wait to try them out
2020-07-15 18:05:04	luna	kind of made me wonder: how *do* you run a public ssh server?
2020-07-15 18:05:58	makeworld	Well that part is easy, by default on most Linux servers the ssh daemon will always be running. And then you just make sure your IP and port 22 are publicly accessible
2020-07-15 18:06:32	makeworld	What solderpunk is doing is more fancy, because he has a special SSH account that doesn't provide shell access, but just runs the kiosk program as soon as you access it
2020-07-15 18:07:00	luna	does it just skip authentication?
2020-07-15 18:08:19	makeworld	Yeah, there's no password, and instead of running /bin/bash on start, it runs ./kiosk or whatever
2020-07-15 18:08:47	makeworld	But also be very careful if you plan on running a public ssh server, you'll get password attacks within an hour or two
2020-07-15 18:15:08	djph	"within an hour"
2020-07-15 18:15:13	djph	yeah, maybe in 2000
2020-07-15 18:16:03	makeworld	Wdym, you get yours much faster?
2020-07-15 18:16:09	djph	yes :(
2020-07-15 18:16:18	makeworld	I don't have much experience, I just have one public server and I was told "in the hour"
2020-07-15 18:16:19	makeworld	Yikes
2020-07-15 18:16:32	makeworld	I just disabled password and root access
2020-07-15 18:16:35	djph	well, least on the DO droplets
2020-07-15 18:16:38	djph	did the same
2020-07-15 18:16:45	djph	only allow sshkey
2020-07-15 18:18:31	luna	i got plenty of ssh requests after running a droplet for a few days
2020-07-15 18:18:49	luna	never authenticated of course
2020-07-15 18:19:28	makeworld	Hope you disabled password login
2020-07-15 18:19:39	luna	yeah, i've been doing that now
2020-07-15 18:24:00	luna	also looks like soldierpunk released their cert generator :D
2020-07-15 18:24:37	djph	cert generator?
2020-07-15 18:29:22	luna	client and server certificate generator
2020-07-15 18:30:26	djph	x.509 then?
2020-07-15 18:31:23	luna	yep
2020-07-15 18:32:29	djph	ah nice
2020-07-15 19:28:24		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 19:32:53		Shufei has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-15 19:37:56	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 19:44:36	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 19:47:10	luna	i wonder if it's worth setting up a bouncer or ssh client for irc, hmm....
2020-07-15 19:47:55	djph	sure thing
2020-07-15 20:12:24	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 20:15:13	epoch	depends on how much FOMO you get
2020-07-15 20:16:53	Sario528	I get a lot of IRC FOMO, that's why I ended up paying for IRCCloud
2020-07-15 20:17:33	luna	i usually just check the gemini logs for this channel if i want to know what was going on when i was gone
2020-07-15 20:17:53	▬▬▶	Shufei has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 20:18:11	luna	just kind of concerned about the public ip stuff
2020-07-15 20:18:52	ℹ 	Shufei is now known as Guest38783
2020-07-15 20:19:56	luna	also helps that i haven't bothered to join any other channels yet, then i'm sure i'd have plenty of fomo to go around
2020-07-15 20:20:07	ℹ 	Guest38783 is now known as Shufei
2020-07-15 20:33:39	wgreenhouse	luna: you can always sign up for an account on one of the tildeverse servers, and ssh into that for irc :)
2020-07-15 20:33:59	wgreenhouse	then you'll be able to connect here as localhost :D
2020-07-15 20:34:19	djph	^
2020-07-15 20:35:15	⚡	wgreenhouse is on the ~club but like Sario528 is also invested in irccloud for now
2020-07-15 20:35:57	Sario528	I actually have an account on ctrl-c, but I'm not sure what I want to do with it.
2020-07-15 20:37:00		ine has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 20:37:08	▬▬▶	inex has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 20:38:01	wgreenhouse	irc, mail, and news (there is a tildeverse nntp network) might be a fun place to start.
2020-07-15 20:38:07	login	inex, what is wolowolo.com?
2020-07-15 20:38:22	luna	might be a good idea, the tildeverse always seemed interesting
2020-07-15 20:40:43	@ben	~team has a bunch of ways to use irc: https://tilde.team/wiki/irc
2020-07-15 20:40:50	@ben	i'm biased though :P
2020-07-15 20:41:06	@ben	i just use weechat inside tmux there (actually byobu)
2020-07-15 20:43:52	ℹ 	Sario528 is now known as Sario
2020-07-15 20:44:01	ℹ 	Sario is now known as Sario528
2020-07-15 20:44:19	inex	login: a domain
2020-07-15 20:44:24		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-15 20:44:56	inex	have u seen the website? its beautiful http://wolowolo.com/
2020-07-15 20:47:58	login	inex: it's a nice domain name
2020-07-15 20:48:19	login	nice website, needs more supercars though
2020-07-15 20:48:34		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-15 20:48:57	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 20:51:08	inex	i've half assed added a racing car at the bottom
2020-07-15 20:51:49	inex	half-assed a racing car*
2020-07-15 20:52:45	luna	beautiful site lol
2020-07-15 20:56:50	▬▬▶	www-data has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 21:10:13		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-15 21:16:21	www-data	when did I change my nick to this?
2020-07-15 21:16:36	www-data	oh.
2020-07-15 21:16:40	www-data	on reconnect.
2020-07-15 21:16:46	ℹ 	www-data is now known as epoch
2020-07-15 21:20:02	Sario528	Hello epoch :)
2020-07-15 21:21:49	epoch	o/
2020-07-15 21:23:39	Sario528	I wonder if I can get ctrl-c to install a gemini server
2020-07-15 21:26:33	epoch	port 1965 doesn't need root to bind to. :)
2020-07-15 21:28:18		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 21:59:23	djph	nope :)
2020-07-15 22:00:31	djph	ugh, they have nntp too!?  as if I don't spend enough time on that already
2020-07-15 22:01:36		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-15 22:01:44	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 22:03:43		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-15 22:04:12	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 22:07:03	luna	random quick question since i can't make up my mind for the life of me: is it worth setting up expiration dates for public gpg keys?
2020-07-15 22:13:01	djph	yes
2020-07-15 22:13:29	djph	though they can be long (5+ years) if you really want.  Encryption can be 2year expirys
2020-07-15 22:15:47	djph	luna: e.g. my key -> my identity (signing key) is good for 10 years.  My encryption key is only good for 2
2020-07-15 22:16:43	luna	i'm guessing old signatures will still work after modifying the expiration date?
2020-07-15 22:17:27	djph	yes, provided that people have your current public key (can't validate a signature with an expired public)
2020-07-15 22:17:42	djph	note that an expired encryption key can ALWAYS decrypt
2020-07-15 22:23:53		gbmor has quit (Changing ident)
2020-07-15 22:23:53	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 22:25:57	djph	is there a recommended page size for a single gemtext page?  I mean, is is preferential to assume someone's going to get a 100-line document spit out at them, and then re-open it in a pager ... or should it be paged at shorter intervals?
2020-07-15 22:56:19		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-15 23:11:39	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 23:24:18	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-15 23:25:51		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-15 23:45:08	Nalaph	from what I've seen, it's preferred to spit out he whole doc. Some browsers will scroll on their own, others have a "pipe to less" feature that handles paging
2020-07-15 23:58:38	djph	works for me
2020-07-16 00:51:21		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 00:52:09		mhj has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-16 01:38:04		Shufei has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-16 01:38:19	▬▬▶	Shufei has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 01:39:20	ℹ 	Shufei is now known as Guest52237
2020-07-16 01:40:48	ℹ 	Guest52237 is now known as Shufei
2020-07-16 02:03:56	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:08	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-07-16 02:20:48	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:48	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 1 nick (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normals)
2020-07-16 02:20:52	ℹ 	Notice(cosmic.tilde.chat): Creation time of #gemini changed from Thu Jul 16 2020 02:20:48 to Sat Aug 31 2019 22:41:57
2020-07-16 02:20:52	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [-ont tomasino] by cosmic.tilde.chat
2020-07-16 02:20:52	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+nrt] by thunix.tilde.chat
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	audiodude has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	tildebeast1 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by thunix.tilde.chat
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	dozens has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	tadzik has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	prisonpotato has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	mk270 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo ben xq] by thunix.tilde.chat
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	inex has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	Shufei has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:20:52	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by thunix.tilde.chat
2020-07-16 02:20:52	ℹ 	thunix.tilde.chat has changed topic for #gemini to "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-07-16 02:21:26	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-07-16 02:21:50	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:22:28	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:22:44	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 02:41:01		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 03:07:48	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 03:08:49	luna	oh my, looks like a lot of people got kicked off
2020-07-16 04:06:15		luna has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-16 04:06:20	▬▬▶	luna_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 04:10:14	ℹ 	luna_ is now known as luna
2020-07-16 04:45:35	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 06:22:41	epoch	luna, all those people being kicked, that was a "netsplit"
2020-07-16 06:23:07	epoch	when you connect to "here" it is actually at least two IRC servers connected together.
2020-07-16 06:23:23	epoch	and when those two IRC servers lose connection to each other
2020-07-16 06:23:35	epoch	anyone who is connected to the other server appears to leave
2020-07-16 06:50:52	luna	huh, the more i know
2020-07-16 06:55:56	epoch	:)
2020-07-16 07:30:49	luna	i might actually talk in the mailing list soon after lurking for like a month or two now
2020-07-16 07:31:06	luna	but in the meantime, i need some sleep lol
2020-07-16 07:31:12		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 07:31:40	kensanata	Wow, there are a lot of characters matching star$ in Unicode.
2020-07-16 07:32:23	kensanata	I'm thinking of adding ｢🌟 Fav｣ at the end of my Gemini pages. You can't do anything with it, but you can look at it and question the social media revolution of the last decade.
2020-07-16 07:54:07	Shufei	I wanna reclaim stars and such from the social media slot machines.  I give stars as nice little imaginary stars that make people feel nice.
2020-07-16 08:00:47	kensanata	Hello Shufei :)
2020-07-16 08:01:06	kensanata	That comic about "you can't fav an email" really made me laugh.
2020-07-16 08:03:10	kensanata	Now that I check http://wondermark.com/archive it seems that it's not even by David Malki‽
2020-07-16 08:38:06	rjt_znc	Maybe stars are not ours to give~
2020-07-16 08:49:54	Shufei	Ohh, I dunno what comic that is.  But I turned to punkin late at night, so maybe I am too sleepy to remember...  :>
2020-07-16 09:34:05		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-16 10:04:24	djph	kensanata: please don't.
2020-07-16 10:07:18	kensanata	Shufei: https://icosahedron.website/@technomancy/101977088121793864
2020-07-16 10:09:01	kensanata	It's perfect. Like, how will we end this conversation?
2020-07-16 10:09:13	kensanata	I'm sitting here, waiting for your reply, saying: "fav"
2020-07-16 10:09:23	kensanata	🤣
2020-07-16 10:39:15		dokuja has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-16 11:15:34	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 11:26:04	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 13:01:57		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 13:03:38	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 13:26:39		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 13:36:37	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 13:43:20	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 13:44:43	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-07-16 13:45:07	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 13:45:07	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-07-16 13:45:07	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-07-16 13:45:07	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 78 nicks (4 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 74 normals)
2020-07-16 13:45:07	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-07-16 13:45:49	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-07-16 14:15:12		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 14:15:24	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 14:24:46	kensanata	tomasino+!
2020-07-16 14:24:56	@tomasino	yo
2020-07-16 14:45:28		Sario528 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 14:47:33	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 14:54:59	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 15:30:29	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 15:35:51	lukee	hi folks
2020-07-16 15:36:08	Sario	Hello
2020-07-16 15:36:09	lukee	just been experimenting with a html->gemini converter
2020-07-16 15:36:31	lukee	it would be so nice not to have to fire up a normal web browser just to view a page
2020-07-16 15:36:44	@tomasino	that's exciting
2020-07-16 15:36:58	@tomasino	i journaled about the I Ching thing i made
2020-07-16 15:37:34	lukee	but the web is full of so much element cruft
2020-07-16 15:37:35	⚡	Sario makes a note to check capcom and spacewalk latet
2020-07-16 15:37:57	lukee	tomasino: are you into I Ching, or is it just a toy?
2020-07-16 15:38:59	@tomasino	i'm into divination in general and i appriceate that method in particular
2020-07-16 15:39:37	lukee	I know John Cage was into it, which hints at its utility
2020-07-16 15:40:37	lukee	A wise old friend of mine who had the book said it is not so much what the I Ching says, but rather what thought processes it invites you into
2020-07-16 15:43:27	⚡	lukee plays with I Ching cgi on tilde.black
2020-07-16 15:43:54	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-16 15:44:11	lukee	Would it be possible to integrate the interpretations into the gemini site?
2020-07-16 15:44:28	@tomasino	i could probably do quite a bit of long-form writing on the topic of divination
2020-07-16 15:44:46	@tomasino	and yes, it would. I didn't feel like typing out my own for 64 and stealing them from other sites seemed shady, so i just linked
2020-07-16 15:45:18	lukee	fair enough
2020-07-16 15:46:35	lukee	here's a thought - you could time limit it by IP address, so you literally only get a certain answer for a while (you cant just refresh)
2020-07-16 15:46:40	@tomasino	but yes... this would be great if it did that. I guess I could fetch those pages in the script, scrape the useful bits and pprint them
2020-07-16 15:46:56	@tomasino	does the IP come through to a CGI?
2020-07-16 15:47:00	lukee	it could be part of the "this is your answer, now work out what it means..."
2020-07-16 15:47:22	@tomasino	that'd be neat
2020-07-16 15:47:29	lukee	I think so unless the server strips it out
2020-07-16 15:47:39	@tomasino	i'd probably want to serve an intro page first, make people think before they click to actually do the thing
2020-07-16 15:48:27	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 15:49:22	lukee	John Cage arrived at his masterpiece "4 minutes, 33 seconds" in part via his experimentation with I Ching
2020-07-16 15:50:56	lukee	he said most other composers were using intention for composition, he wanted to use non-intention
2020-07-16 15:51:21	lukee	so he used the I Ching as a way to generate randomness for his compositions
2020-07-16 15:51:47	lukee	Then he realised that of course one of the possibilities is *nothing*
2020-07-16 15:52:24	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-16 15:55:07	lukee	the other one that is sort of similar is Eno's "Oblique strategies"
2020-07-16 15:55:08	lukee	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_Strategies
2020-07-16 15:55:45	lukee	which I think was designed as a creativity stimulant and blockage remover
2020-07-16 15:56:40	lukee	blockage -> "blockage" (!)
2020-07-16 16:01:33	@tomasino	did you read my link at the bottom of the gemini i ching?
2020-07-16 16:02:57	lukee	not yet - let me take a loot
2020-07-16 16:03:57	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.black/cgi-bin/about-iching.gmi
2020-07-16 16:05:15	lukee	what is the nature of that algorithm?
2020-07-16 16:07:30	lukee	do people really worry whether a digitised random process is "really" effective for chaotic divination?
2020-07-16 16:07:52	lukee	as opposed to a "natural" one.
2020-07-16 16:08:44	lukee	For me the value is not in the randomness of the seed and its connection to the enquirer but rather the process of accepting and answer and having to work on the interpretation
2020-07-16 16:09:22	lukee	my friend who had the I Ching as a book, said the method he used was just to let it open randomly
2020-07-16 16:09:38	@tomasino	This is where the nature of divination comes into play
2020-07-16 16:09:45	@tomasino	And why I could write so much
2020-07-16 16:10:15	@tomasino	Is it external action, internal discernment, a combination of the two, or more complex
2020-07-16 16:10:59	lukee	I suppose I would lean towards the "constrained" internal discernment
2020-07-16 16:11:20	lukee	constrained in as much as: "this is the reading you get. Deal with it"
2020-07-16 16:11:35	lukee	what's your view
2020-07-16 16:11:37	lukee	?
2020-07-16 16:11:55	@tomasino	I'm in the mixed camp
2020-07-16 16:12:09	@tomasino	External influence requiring internal discernment
2020-07-16 16:12:58	@tomasino	Off to cook
2020-07-16 16:12:59	lukee	so then is it a worry about the connection between an enquirer using a digital interface to a system running a random number generator off a process id seed?
2020-07-16 16:13:05	@tomasino	More on this topic soon!
2020-07-16 16:13:13	lukee	ha fine!
2020-07-16 16:14:59	lukee	...well I've been bashing my head against the wall of html parsing
2020-07-16 16:15:48	lukee	trying to remove the entropy from the system
2020-07-16 16:16:05	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 16:16:18	lukee	there are some html2text utilities out there that try to do something
2020-07-16 16:16:36	lukee	which you can build on for generating text/gemini
2020-07-16 16:17:13	lukee	and it works ok for simple pages in that you get something reasonable to read at the end
2020-07-16 16:17:55	lukee	but if you feed it a random page, there is a huge amount of cruft reflecting all the myriad of UI elements a typical website has
2020-07-16 16:18:03	lukee	none of which is particularly semantic
2020-07-16 16:18:24	lukee	and after you scroll past 3 pages of them, then you get the real content :-/
2020-07-16 16:19:29	lukee	then there is the whole discussion about what to do with inline links
2020-07-16 16:20:46	lukee	so I'm not feeling very hopeful yet about the viability of this
2020-07-16 16:25:33	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 17:04:14	acdw	just put inline links on their own line?
2020-07-16 17:07:08	@tomasino	Footnotes
2020-07-16 17:07:36	acdw	+1
2020-07-16 17:08:33	lukee	yes that is the best solution I agree - and widely used elsewhere like email and gopher
2020-07-16 17:09:23	lukee	some day I might implement hot-wiring up the footnote citations and removing the footnotes
2020-07-16 17:09:50	lukee	it would be of general utility I think
2020-07-16 17:10:27	lukee	but the crufty web is just awash with clickable whatsits that are of no real content value
2020-07-16 17:10:38	lukee	the trick is to try to strip them out without losing the real content
2020-07-16 17:10:58	lukee	e.g. a +1 vote icon next to a comment
2020-07-16 17:11:53	acdw	ooh like emojis?
2020-07-16 17:11:57	Sario	A pound of good content buried under a ton of crap
2020-07-16 17:12:36	companion_cube	➕
2020-07-16 17:13:15	lukee	yes a client nicety: not necessarily emojis - but where you have e.g. [2] in the text then => url [2] as the footnote link
2020-07-16 17:14:17	lukee	but why not use an emoji - so many to choose from
2020-07-16 17:24:38	acdw	footnotemojis
2020-07-16 17:25:35	@ben	[0] [1] inline and the links at the bottom would be lovely
2020-07-16 17:25:47	lukee	so it would have to be this one: 🦶
2020-07-16 17:26:07	lukee	ben: seems doable
2020-07-16 17:26:18	acdw	🦶🎵
2020-07-16 17:28:05	lukee	in fact in GemiNaut they could actually be done as superscript indices¹
2020-07-16 17:28:56	lukee	I guess fixed text clients would have to use square bracket citations which are also fine
2020-07-16 17:31:03	acdw	aren't superscripts in unicode tho? If so then that'd work no problem
2020-07-16 17:32:39	lukee	Yes you're right!
2020-07-16 17:33:32		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-16 17:33:38	lukee	everyone's a winner
2020-07-16 17:33:41	lukee	with unicode
2020-07-16 17:34:46	acdw	unicode is besticode
2020-07-16 17:35:35	acdw	if my parents werren't visitng this weekend I'd do a lot of gemini stuff on breadpun
2020-07-16 17:35:58	acdw	so i think *next* weekend I'm going to add a lot of stuff with gemini on breadpunk and probably change my presence to be all there
2020-07-16 17:40:42	kevinsan	lukee, gemini://gemini.susa.net/web_readability_cli.gmi might be of interest, if you've not already tried it.
2020-07-16 17:42:40	lukee	kevinsan: thanks for that - output looks nice for the text. Can it retain the links?
2020-07-16 17:44:53	kevinsan	I don't know. Firefox Reader Mode, I think, retains links, but I don't know if this does. You might have to take them from the simplified html before running through html2text
2020-07-16 17:46:20	lukee	urgh sounds complex
2020-07-16 17:47:11	lukee	but I think this area is fruitful to investigate
2020-07-16 17:47:38	lukee	I've been building on a go library html2text with some customisations
2020-07-16 17:48:18	kevinsan	html2text does link extraction. If you read the man page for html2textrc, it shows you can configure how it presents extracted links.
2020-07-16 17:49:14	kevinsan	as an aside, extracting links from html can be little more than grep and cut commands. not complex.
2020-07-16 17:51:04	lukee	the html2text you mention - is it unix only?
2020-07-16 17:53:36	kevinsan	well, the html2text that I refer to is a unix command (it's been around for years and years)
2020-07-16 17:54:25	@tomasino	there's a python lib
2020-07-16 17:55:42	kevinsan	http://www.mbayer.de/html2text/ (original author) https://github.com/grobian/html2text (current maintainer)
2020-07-16 17:56:07		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 17:56:21	⚡	lukee shudders at compiling and tweaking C++
2020-07-16 17:56:59	lukee	I will release my html2gemini library soon I hope
2020-07-16 17:58:19	lukee	tomasino: I have a response to your I Ching page
2020-07-16 17:58:40	@tomasino	yay!
2020-07-16 17:58:43	@tomasino	is it up?
2020-07-16 17:58:44	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/oblique-strategies/consult
2020-07-16 17:59:18	@tomasino	perfect!
2020-07-16 17:59:32	lukee	:)
2020-07-16 18:00:00	lukee	I will do a short blog post and cross reference your post and app
2020-07-16 18:00:26		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 18:00:28	@tomasino	fantastico
2020-07-16 18:01:37	lukee	Should I tweak it so you get the same advice for an hour or so - so you have to come back again to get the next one?
2020-07-16 18:02:04	lukee	probably by hour and IP address so everyone gets a different one
2020-07-16 18:02:15	lukee	or just let people refresh to cycle through
2020-07-16 18:04:24	Sario	I say makr them wait
2020-07-16 18:04:32	Sario	s/makr/make
2020-07-16 18:06:48		Shufei has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-16 18:07:38	@tomasino	they may not realize
2020-07-16 18:08:05	@tomasino	i got a blank one, btw
2020-07-16 18:08:08	Sario	True. A notice may be needed
2020-07-16 18:08:12	@tomasino	you have an extra line-feed in the list?
2020-07-16 18:08:15	lukee	yes that is one
2020-07-16 18:08:21	@tomasino	ahh, silence is an option
2020-07-16 18:08:22	@tomasino	:P
2020-07-16 18:08:31	lukee	mu
2020-07-16 18:09:04	lukee	I could timestamp the divination and say to check back again in X hours
2020-07-16 18:10:07	@tomasino	or require a client cert
2020-07-16 18:10:08	@tomasino	:P
2020-07-16 18:10:41	lukee	nope!
2020-07-16 18:19:03	▬▬▶	Shufei has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 18:20:05	ℹ 	Shufei is now known as Guest39094
2020-07-16 18:37:50	lukee	Oblique strategies script now gives you the same advice for a whole hour before choosing another one!
2020-07-16 18:39:15	kevinsan	=> gemini://gemini.susa.net/cgi-bin/vim-search?buffers  Searchable vim-faq
2020-07-16 18:39:34	@tomasino	sweet!
2020-07-16 18:39:35	kevinsan	inputs might be a bit heavily sanitized
2020-07-16 18:50:28	lukee	urgh I just realised my server is behind a proxy so all queries come from the same address
2020-07-16 18:51:03	lukee	so everyone gets the same advice. Its not such a bad thing, like a community magic 8 ball!
2020-07-16 18:51:19	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 19:10:23	djph	except the answer is always "No." ?
2020-07-16 19:10:52	djph	whee, "orbit" script behaves now!
2020-07-16 19:11:26	lukee	why is it always "no"?
2020-07-16 19:11:45	djph	lukee: I was wondering if that's what the "same advice" for everyone was
2020-07-16 19:12:55	lukee	no the advice is chosen randomly for the current hour. I had contemplated making the advice unique to the user (by IP address) but I can't do that right now
2020-07-16 19:13:26	lukee	so currently it says "Look at a very small object, look at its centre"
2020-07-16 19:13:51	lukee	(I'm assuming others get that too!) but on the hour it will change again
2020-07-16 19:14:05	djph	oh, nice
2020-07-16 19:15:12	lukee	what is the "orbit" script?
2020-07-16 20:04:17	djph	processing script for taking textfiles, turning them into gemtext, then uploading them to my site.
2020-07-16 20:04:36	djph	"orbit" just sounded like a good name, because "gemini program"
2020-07-16 20:04:57	lukee	ah nice. What is the source format then if not gemini?
2020-07-16 20:06:37	djph	just text. But I write in vim, and the 72char wrap doesn't conform to gemtext
2020-07-16 20:07:49	lukee	I dont know vim - but I take it you cant just set it to soft wrap then?
2020-07-16 20:17:52	djph	it's not very elegant to work in vi that way -- navigating around a "long line" gets quite tedious
2020-07-16 20:18:52	lukee	I know better than to suggest using another text editing app to a vi user :)
2020-07-16 20:21:05	djph	hahaha
2020-07-16 20:21:40	djph	Other editors have their place (e.g. notepad++ @ work on their wall systems)
2020-07-16 20:22:39	djph	but yeah, my preferred editor in terminal is vi (mostly because I had it beaten into me at my first position, working with the AIX boxes)
2020-07-16 20:27:21		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 20:28:10	lukee	I mostly use Scite which sits on top of the same library as notepad++
2020-07-16 20:34:15	kevinsan	I used to use scite a lot on Windows, i can't even remember why I switched to notepad++, I don't trade editors lightly!
2020-07-16 20:37:36	lukee	its nice and lightweight. If I need intellisense I'll grudgingly fire up VS
2020-07-16 20:37:52	kevinsan	probably swapped during my stallman worshipping phase, since notepad++ is gpl
2020-07-16 20:38:05	lukee	lol
2020-07-16 20:39:34	lukee	It seems pretty straightforward to me: https://www.scintilla.org/License.txt
2020-07-16 20:39:37	kevinsan	yes, good code completion is a bit of a holy grail - only strongly typed languages really work well. ZeroBrane Studio works well with Lua, but still nothing like Eclipse for Java
2020-07-16 20:41:15	lukee	tomasino: I just finished my blog post about I Ching and Oblique strategies
2020-07-16 20:41:24	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/16-Jul-2020_Oblique_strategies.gmi
2020-07-16 20:42:23	@tomasino	i'll read it tonight
2020-07-16 20:42:24	@tomasino	awesome!
2020-07-16 20:47:27	kevinsan	Why do I get 'Your card right now says' then an empty pre-formatted text block
2020-07-16 21:04:19	lukee	that is the empty card!
2020-07-16 21:04:40	lukee	You have to consider what that means for the problem you are trying to address
2020-07-16 21:04:43	lukee	:)
2020-07-16 21:04:49	kevinsan	I don't get it, why would I want an empty card? I want wisdom and inspiration!!
2020-07-16 21:06:08	kevinsan	does anyone have a list of clients that support client certificates (other than AV-98?)
2020-07-16 21:06:10	lukee	maybe the card means you don't need to be "given" wisdom after all?
2020-07-16 21:06:37	lukee	anyway the hour is up, so there is another strategy now :)
2020-07-16 21:06:39	kevinsan	yes, well my innate arrogance forces me to agree with that
2020-07-16 21:08:13	kevinsan	I got: "Take away the elements in order of apparent non-importance"
2020-07-16 21:08:35	lukee	yes and...
2020-07-16 21:09:24	kevinsan	I'm still trying to find a context that it might apply to. I don't think I'm I Chinging quite right...
2020-07-16 21:09:36	djph	... if only av98 would page by default
2020-07-16 21:10:13	lukee	it could suggest to simplify further the thing you are working on?
2020-07-16 21:10:35	lukee	or perhaps that the order of apparent non-importance is only apparent?
2020-07-16 21:10:59	djph	lukee: what?
2020-07-16 21:11:05	lukee	or maybe that as you take the elements away one by one, you can see a different take on the problem
2020-07-16 21:11:36	lukee	I'm not sure this is the right conversation to have with computer specialists :P
2020-07-16 21:12:10	lukee	maybe it is the right conversation, but just hard
2020-07-16 21:13:43	kevinsan	no, it's all good. remember - anything that helps us navigate the non-deterministic world outside von neumann architectures is to be welcomed
2020-07-16 21:13:57	lukee	haha
2020-07-16 21:14:31	lukee	less left brain, more right brain
2020-07-16 21:15:23	kevinsan	i really want some personal influence in the choice presented to me. in other words "I don't want exactly the same I Ching as you losers"
2020-07-16 21:16:13	lukee	yeah me too. I wanted to use the IP address as part of the seed to the randomizer, but the machine is behind a proxy
2020-07-16 21:16:29	lukee	so all requests come from the proxy.
2020-07-16 21:16:42	kevinsan	what server are you using?
2020-07-16 21:16:56	lukee	maybe there is a solution. I should perhaps try to "Take away the elements in order of apparent non-importance"
2020-07-16 21:17:07	lukee	molly-brown
2020-07-16 21:17:33	kevinsan	does it pass in client certificate info to your CGI vars?
2020-07-16 21:18:17	lukee	huh maybe that might work
2020-07-16 21:18:46	lukee	it doesnt request a cert, but I suppose in virtue of TLS there is a client cert?
2020-07-16 21:19:37	kevinsan	so, if TLS_CLIENT_HASH is not empty, use it to generate for that person?
2020-07-16 21:21:58	lukee	I'm just getting "none" for that.
2020-07-16 21:22:28	lukee	what are the circumstances it should be non-empty?
2020-07-16 21:23:09	kevinsan	ok, so your server sets it to a value of either "none", or the client hash right? OR does it just not even set TLS_CLIENT_HASH?
2020-07-16 21:25:44	lukee	its unset, not sure if that is a limitation of the server
2020-07-16 21:27:48	lukee	looking at the source it should pass these in if there is a client cert being used
2020-07-16 21:28:27	lukee	however I dont want to force clients to provide a certificate
2020-07-16 21:30:02	lukee	maybe I could have a link which is "click here if you want the chosen oblique strategy to be specific to you"
2020-07-16 21:30:14	lukee	which then requests a cert.
2020-07-16 21:30:22	lukee	a problem for another day methinks!
2020-07-16 21:30:42	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 21:32:11	kevinsan	you just need to test for TLS_CLIENT_HASH and return either a user-specific or a generic card depending on its presence (and value, if there)
2020-07-16 21:32:46	lukee	but when would there be a TLS_CLIENT_HASH set?
2020-07-16 21:33:03	lukee	sorry the certificates side of gemini is not my forte
2020-07-16 21:33:14	kevinsan	when a user connects with a client certificate
2020-07-16 21:33:42	kevinsan	brb, I'll show you a link with the difference (from a CGI script's point of view)
2020-07-16 21:34:31	lukee	ok great
2020-07-16 21:44:04	kevinsan	See gemini://gemini.susa.net/notes_on_gemserv_cgi.gmi halfway down "A view of TLS variables from CGI scripts"
2020-07-16 21:44:06	kensanata	Actually I don't think that is correct. The client cert is only sent to the server if the server is set up to validate peers.
2020-07-16 21:44:16	kensanata	That's exactly the problem I had last week.
2020-07-16 21:44:24	kensanata	My server would never see the client certs.
2020-07-16 21:44:34	kevinsan	what server were you using kensanata
2020-07-16 21:44:58	kensanata	My own... using Perl, whith libraries based on OpenSSL.
2020-07-16 21:45:28	kensanata	The long form is here: gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/2020-07-13_Client_Certificates_and_IO%3A%3ASocket%3A%3ASSL_%28Perl%29
2020-07-16 21:45:30	lukee	thanks I'll take a look
2020-07-16 21:46:28	kensanata	The short form is that (if you library is based on OpenSSL as well) that you need to set the Verify Mode to VERIFY_PEER (so that it actually requests the cert).
2020-07-16 21:47:37	kensanata	Normally that then leads to the problem that the server thinks the client cert is invalid because it's self signed, so you need to tell the server that you want to validate the peer but then also tell the server not validate it... you do that by overriding the Verify Callback and return 1/true for every cert.
2020-07-16 21:47:55	kensanata	Now you have a connection, and the client cert, and you can get its fingerprint.
2020-07-16 21:48:11	kensanata	It took me five evenings to figure this shit out and I was not amused.
2020-07-16 21:49:12	kevinsan	i can imagine - your description is lower level than my understanding of openssl (which is more or less limited to generating certificates)
2020-07-16 21:50:07	kensanata	Yeah, now that I know what I'm looking for, I can link you to man pages like https://www.openssl.org/docs/manmaster/man3/SSL_CTX_set_cert_verify_callback.html
2020-07-16 21:50:26	kevinsan	still, with a certificate created with AV-98, and a subsequent request to my gemserv server, my CGI script gets the TLS hash automatically.
2020-07-16 21:52:02	kensanata	Yeah, your library must be doing automatic peer validation.
2020-07-16 21:52:47	kevinsan	Sorry, when I said 'my' I meant my instance of the gemserv server (which was written by someone else). By yes, their code must have been written with this in mind.
2020-07-16 21:54:37	lukee	ha I'm getting somewhere
2020-07-16 21:54:52	lukee	at this URL it requests a certificate
2020-07-16 21:54:55	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/oblique-strategies/personal-consult
2020-07-16 21:55:14	lukee	it doesnt do anything with the info yet, just prints it out in the footer
2020-07-16 21:55:52	lukee	I'm just returning meta 60 if there is no TLS_CLIENT_HASH
2020-07-16 21:56:31	lukee	I dont care if the certificate is valid or not, but it means I can be specific I think
2020-07-16 21:56:42	kensanata	Cool, seems to work from my end
2020-07-16 21:58:05	kensanata	What's the point, though? You don't actually want to establish a session, do you?
2020-07-16 21:58:46	ℹ 	acdw is now known as acdw|away
2020-07-16 21:58:57		acdw|away has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 21:59:00	lukee	no, its very simple, offer a different random card to different visitors that is selected for them
2020-07-16 21:59:17	lukee	otherwise they get the same card as everyone else
2020-07-16 21:59:19	kensanata	And why not using a random number?
2020-07-16 21:59:52	kensanata	Since in the 60 code situation, I'm going to create a temporary cert and so next time I visit, I'll get a different card as well?
2020-07-16 22:00:02	kensanata	Or do people have "accounts"?
2020-07-16 22:00:06	lukee	because it has to persist between requests, and so the
2020-07-16 22:00:39	lukee	random number would be different each time
2020-07-16 22:00:56	lukee	the idea is you get the same card for an hour, then the card changes
2020-07-16 22:01:11	lukee	obviously if you abandon your certificate you would get a new one
2020-07-16 22:01:11	kensanata	OK, in that case a temporary cert might work just as well,
2020-07-16 22:01:32	lukee	yes it wouldnt have to be a long term one.
2020-07-16 22:02:03	lukee	unless you believe in fate and you want to get YOUR reading ;)
2020-07-16 22:02:15	kensanata	Hah!
2020-07-16 22:04:34	kevinsan	It even works from bash with ncat...
2020-07-16 22:04:36	kevinsan	echo -ne 'gemini://gemini.susa.net/cgi-bin/serverinfo\r\n'|ncat --ssl --ssl-cert /tmp/kevin.crt --ssl-key /tmp/kevin.key gemini.susa.net 1965
2020-07-16 22:05:20	kevinsan	pipe to grep HASH: TLS_CLIENT_HASH: SHA256:6A06C63546F95520750C72B303F2F4FAA94353AE6AFEE4C4FD12B456BEE1A7A4
2020-07-16 22:13:01	kevinsan	kensanata, your certificate was generated for transjovian, not alexschroeder, so my client fails to load your link.
2020-07-16 22:13:57	lukee	hey folks can you try this with your own clients
2020-07-16 22:13:58	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/oblique-strategies/personal-consult
2020-07-16 22:14:14	lukee	what is your personal card you get?
2020-07-16 22:14:24	lukee	I get "Emphasize the flaws"
2020-07-16 22:15:31	kevinsan	I also got Emphasize the flaws - maybe a fluke, i'll try with a new cert...
2020-07-16 22:16:21	lukee	hmm not working yet then
2020-07-16 22:17:08	djph	I get 'send a cert or give up' (I gave up)
2020-07-16 22:17:15	kevinsan	nope - did you use the hash to seed the random number generatot?
2020-07-16 22:17:46	lukee	ha I found the bug
2020-07-16 22:18:03	lukee	can you try again I now get "Think [ ] inside the work [ ] outside the work"
2020-07-16 22:18:09	kensanata	kevinsan: Hm. I wonder what to do about it.
2020-07-16 22:18:43	lukee	kevinsan: yes I use the hash plus the current hour so it changes every hour
2020-07-16 22:19:10	lukee	well the hour+day+year so each day is different
2020-07-16 22:19:11	kensanata	I guess I might just get one big cert for all the domains. I somehow hoped that Gemini clients wouldn't treat them any differently from self-signed certs.
2020-07-16 22:21:11	kevinsan	kensanata, I didn't need to look into generating certs for multiple domains, since I just needed to use CN of *.susa.net
2020-07-16 22:21:20	kensanata	Attempt to verify the new certificate fingerprint out-of-band:
2020-07-16 22:21:20	kensanata	...
2020-07-16 22:21:20	kensanata	Accept this new certificate? Y/N y
2020-07-16 22:21:20	kensanata	ERROR: string index out of range
2020-07-16 22:21:23	kensanata	Weird.
2020-07-16 22:21:32	kensanata	But then it works
2020-07-16 22:21:40	kensanata	AV-98 and my site.
2020-07-16 22:22:41	lukee	huh maybe the client hash lengths are variable...
2020-07-16 22:22:58	lukee	let me tweak again...
2020-07-16 22:25:39	kevinsan	lukee, you probably need to coerce the hash into something that makes sense to the RNG seed function.
2020-07-16 22:28:14	lukee	yes I was being loose about that
2020-07-16 22:28:29	lukee	I've fixed it now I think hopefully
2020-07-16 22:28:36	lukee	can you try again?
2020-07-16 22:29:44	lukee	If I use one certificate I get "Do the words need changing?"
2020-07-16 22:30:05	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 22:30:16	lukee	then if I change certificate I then get "Slow preparation, fast execution"
2020-07-16 22:31:20	kevinsan	I get " Change instrument roles"
2020-07-16 22:31:35	lukee	and if you refresh the page you still get the same advice?
2020-07-16 22:31:51	kevinsan	just doing it (it's slooooow, is that your end that's the problem?)
2020-07-16 22:32:03	kevinsan	Yes, "Change instrument roles"
2020-07-16 22:32:13	lukee	wahey!
2020-07-16 22:32:30	lukee	not sure what the performance problem is - it seems fine for me
2020-07-16 22:32:50	kevinsan	well done, I feel enlightened by my personal I Ching.
2020-07-16 22:33:07		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-16 22:33:19	lukee	well its not I Ching (that's Tomasino's CGI app) rather it is your own personal Oblique Strategy
2020-07-16 22:33:32	lukee	for now anyway :)
2020-07-16 22:33:41	lukee	thanks for your help with this!
2020-07-16 22:34:29	lukee	I just need to link it in so visitors who can submit a cert will get their own personal guidance
2020-07-16 22:44:07	kevinsan	so the slow speed is (i think) that AV-98 is trying IPv6 and falling back to IPv4 after a couple of attempts.
2020-07-16 22:44:17	kevinsan	perhaps you're only proxying IPv4?
2020-07-16 22:44:49	lukee	yes
2020-07-16 22:48:17	lukee	not sure what the fix is: does AV-98 try to do this for every server and its faster, or its a general problem?
2020-07-16 22:53:06	kevinsan	I don't really know python stuff well enough to say - tries IPv6 first. Your solution is to not resolve an IPv6 address if you can't serve on it. But of course you may be serving other protocols on that host/IP that do support IPv6
2020-07-16 22:53:15	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 22:54:26	kevinsan	But, if gemini.marmaladefoo.com is just not meant to run IPv6, then remove that AAAA entry from your DNS zone file.
2020-07-16 22:55:12	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-16 22:58:04		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 22:59:41	lukee	kevinsan: ok thanks I'll look into it
2020-07-16 23:02:37	⚡	lukee shuffles off to learn more about DNS configuration
2020-07-16 23:04:36		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-16 23:05:29	drskrzyk	oh man
2020-07-16 23:05:48	drskrzyk	I wish I had seen that message. I should have warned lukee to not torture themselves.
2020-07-16 23:31:30	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 00:40:21	djph	uhoh :)
2020-07-17 00:41:04	djph	drskrzyk: if it makes you feel better, I'm torturing myself with assembly ... :/
2020-07-17 00:57:16		paper has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-17 02:35:04		mk270 has left #gemini
2020-07-17 04:06:13	luna	what architecture?
2020-07-17 07:20:27		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 07:37:08	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 07:39:07		paper has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 07:40:21	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 08:54:36	djph	luna: me? avr.  (Atmel ATMega / ATTiny microcontrollers)
2020-07-17 09:24:53	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 09:47:40	@xq	djph: why are you coding avr assembler?
2020-07-17 10:09:13	djph	xq: why not?
2020-07-17 10:10:24	djph	xq: I'd rather be coding 65816 assembler, but the microcontrollers are easier (faster turnaround, etc)
2020-07-17 10:10:48	@xq	why not C?
2020-07-17 10:10:53	@xq	it's a bit more readable
2020-07-17 10:10:56	djph	C is easy
2020-07-17 10:11:21	djph	also, 6502/65816 doesn't have a (good) C compiler.
2020-07-17 10:11:30	@xq	that's true
2020-07-17 10:11:38	@xq	but for AVR the C compiler is nice
2020-07-17 10:11:48	djph	also, also, I wanna learn it
2020-07-17 10:12:17	@xq	yeah whell
2020-07-17 10:12:19	@xq	*well
2020-07-17 10:12:23	@xq	that's nothing you can argue against :D
2020-07-17 10:13:12	djph	xq: full disclosure -> started with "Arduino" -> then to bare vim/C/makefiles -> now assembly because learning the thought-processes for it (and as a gradual stepping stone to 6502 -- yes, yes, the mnemonics are different, but the thought patterns are the same)
2020-07-17 10:13:53	@xq	no they are not :D
2020-07-17 10:14:02	@xq	that's the problem why there is no good C compiler ;)
2020-07-17 10:15:06	@xq	6502 is very different
2020-07-17 10:15:18	@xq	it's a accumulator machine, no register machine
2020-07-17 10:15:29	@xq	so you need to learn about zero page and such features ;)
2020-07-17 10:16:31	djph	xq: Sorry, I chose poor words.  What I meant was that the "thought processes" for taking a problem and developing a subroutine are similar enough that I can start at the shallow end of the pool.
2020-07-17 10:16:44	@xq	ah
2020-07-17 10:16:52	djph	i.e. I'm not just jumping in from "C" to "6502 Assembly"
2020-07-17 10:17:07	@xq	yeah i forget that sometimes that people are way less experienced than i am ^^
2020-07-17 10:17:14	djph	hahah
2020-07-17 10:17:25	kevinsan	6502 is a joy to code with 8-bit custom chips like those in Atari 400/800
2020-07-17 10:17:32	@xq	i'm doing this stuff (computers) since 2005.
2020-07-17 10:17:37	@xq	pretty much daily, several hours
2020-07-17 10:17:37	@xq	:D
2020-07-17 10:18:00	kevinsan	the difference is that those old chips and instruction sets were designed for people to write assembly (or even just machine code)
2020-07-17 10:18:13	djph	xq: I've been working with computers since the 1990s; but not assembly or the "classic(tm)" chips
2020-07-17 10:18:25	@xq	djph: yeah, but i *live* coding :D
2020-07-17 10:18:37	@xq	every day, at work, at leisure time, at night :D
2020-07-17 10:18:48	@xq	and for me it doesn#t matter anymore what language, level, ...
2020-07-17 10:18:53	djph	mostly scripting languages, and the occassional bigger thing ... but the low-level stuff is more "in between"
2020-07-17 10:18:59	kevinsan	when I started using PIC chips, I expected the experience to be the same, but it just wasn't. I hated assembly on those chips and soon moved to C
2020-07-17 10:18:59	@xq	(now some bragging) :D
2020-07-17 10:19:10	djph	xq: ah, gotcha
2020-07-17 10:19:48	@xq	people were impressed that i just read the docs for the Raytheon704, then hacked a small tape loader for that macine in machine language.
2020-07-17 10:19:49	@xq	:D
2020-07-17 10:20:51	djph	nice
2020-07-17 10:21:08	djph	college really killed my taste for programming though :| java is awful.
2020-07-17 10:21:25	⚡	xq hints djph into the direction of Zig
2020-07-17 10:21:29	@xq	join our small revolution!
2020-07-17 10:21:33	djph	Zig?
2020-07-17 10:21:52	djph	"In AD2101, war was beginning" ?
2020-07-17 10:22:06	@xq	i see, you are a man of culture as well
2020-07-17 10:22:08	@xq	https://ziglang.org/
2020-07-17 10:22:25	djph	haha
2020-07-17 10:22:40	@xq	move zig!
2020-07-17 10:23:09	@xq	but being serious: i was a C/C++/C# coder before i discovered zig
2020-07-17 10:23:13	djph	I used to be able to go through that whole opening sequence from memory.  Such a bad translation, but a pretty decent side-scroller.
2020-07-17 10:23:17	@xq	and now i try to hack everything in that language
2020-07-17 10:23:55	@xq	disclaimer: it's not done yet and breaking changes or bugs are to be expected, but get less and less often
2020-07-17 10:31:34	djph	looks interesting with a quick read
2020-07-17 10:34:10	@xq	it is. all the good qualities of C and some of more modern languages (like a very good type system) without all that weirdness and footguns of C
2020-07-17 10:44:29		Guest39094 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-17 10:50:23	epoch	http://www.hackers-edge.com/ <-- has a network of 6502 VMs inside it
2020-07-17 10:57:55		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 10:58:06	▬▬▶	Guest39094 has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 10:59:54	djph	epoch: yeah, I have one or two floating around on my system.  They're not as ... fun? ... I guess as banging on hardware
2020-07-17 11:00:37	@xq	sounds like a nice idea
2020-07-17 11:00:45	⚡	xq wants to do something similar for a game
2020-07-17 11:01:21	djph	longterm, I want to see if I can make an e-reader, for funsies.
2020-07-17 12:31:19		lel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 12:31:56	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 13:14:31	kensanata	I think I want to make a more conscious effort to write text using Gemini instead of programming for Gemini, or writing about the programming for Gemini.
2020-07-17 13:15:50	@tomasino	yes!
2020-07-17 13:15:51	@tomasino	do it
2020-07-17 13:31:03		englishm has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 13:31:14	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 13:33:51	kensanata	:)
2020-07-17 13:34:36	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 13:53:51		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-17 13:54:14	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 14:44:47	ℹ 	ben is now known as benharri
2020-07-17 14:45:09	ℹ 	benharri is now known as ben
2020-07-17 15:36:51		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-17 15:52:26		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		patrick has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		bacterio has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		lel has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		mmmattyx has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		tiwesdaeg has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		inex has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		mhj has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		kayw has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		benoliver999 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		links has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		dkibi has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		yali has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		audiodude has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		g has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		xfnw has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		Ernoz has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		tildebeast1 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		djph has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		gbmor has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		codingquark has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		siina has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		seisatsu has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		Guest39094 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		Sario has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		wgreenhouse has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		andinus has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		creme has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		styan has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		englishm has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		xj9 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		dodolz has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		calamitous has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		CommunistWolf has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		dozens has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		wingy has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		obrut has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		tastytea has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		sndr has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		dokuja has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		erin has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		StygianBlues has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		makeworld has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		krjst has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		bard has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		Sario528 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:01		m68k has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		hhes has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		ben has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		cat has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		companion_cube has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		lvgx has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		exprez135 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		everbern has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		login has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		jan6 has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		tadzik has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		epoch has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		mozz has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		prisonpotato has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		paper_ has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		admicos has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		rjt_znc has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		drskrzyk has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		xq has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		cyrus has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		jbg has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		paper has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		jan has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		julienxx has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		pentangle has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		gohan has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		Ekkie has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		omni has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:02		omse has quit (thunix.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-07-17 17:18:03	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:06	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:13	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:23	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:33	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	inex has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	audiodude has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:18:59	▬▬▶	dozens has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:02		xfnw has quit (Changing host)
2020-07-17 17:19:02	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:02	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-07-17 17:19:10	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:10	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:10	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:10	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:10	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:10	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:10	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	tadzik has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	tildebeast1 has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	prisonpotato has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	230AAETPM has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:19:27	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo xq ben] by team.tilde.chat
2020-07-17 17:20:01	ℹ 	andinus is now known as Guest15900
2020-07-17 17:23:04	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:45:11	djph	uhoh, pretty empty room... server reset?
2020-07-17 17:47:54		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-07-17 17:48:11	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 17:55:47	ℹ 	Guest15900 is now known as andinus
2020-07-17 17:56:13		andinus has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 17:57:07	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 18:10:36	@tomasino	is it?
2020-07-17 18:48:09	djph	oh now it's back to normal ... there were like 5 people in here before.
2020-07-17 18:48:42	djph	yay, gemtext processor didn't choke on the code (much)
2020-07-17 18:50:57	wgreenhouse	djph: there was a big netsplit
2020-07-17 18:52:15	djph	hm, I must've been offline when that happened then - as I didn't see any netsplit notice.  Ah well, it's the weekend, and I got my microcontroller code to work perfectly
2020-07-17 18:56:12		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 19:00:49	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 19:15:44	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 20:00:47		mhj has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 20:12:27	kensanata	kooda has an interesting point about tracking users using TLS session caches. Is that actually possible?
2020-07-17 20:20:36	djph	I think you have to request their cert, but ... maybe
2020-07-17 20:24:30	CommunistWolf	heh, I just had a moment of doubt before buying an ipv6-only server, but... https://www.mythic-beasts.com/support/topics/proxy#sec-proxied-services
2020-07-17 20:24:30	wgreenhouse	Is there really a cache if everyone is using an ephemeral cipher suite and client didn't offer a client certificate?
2020-07-17 20:24:40	CommunistWolf	gemini support \o/
2020-07-17 20:24:50	wgreenhouse	TLS--how does it work
2020-07-17 20:28:28	login	TLS 1.3 is ephemeral, but not 1.2 right?
2020-07-17 20:42:14	kensanata	Sometimes it feels as if 70% of all development around Gemini is TLS-related. Gah!
2020-07-17 20:45:14	CommunistWolf	we all love TLS
2020-07-17 20:47:49	kensanata	Sounds like Stockholm syndrome.
2020-07-17 20:59:30	kevinsan	CommunistWolf, how much did you pay, and for what spec?
2020-07-17 21:01:15	CommunistWolf	kevinsan: I got one of the pi4s with some extra disk, it came to just under £10
2020-07-17 21:01:20	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 21:01:27	CommunistWolf	but I do very much like TLS
2020-07-17 21:01:44	CommunistWolf	now, if only it'd boot...
2020-07-17 21:01:56	CommunistWolf	it might be a support ticket ^^
2020-07-17 21:02:16	lukee	CommunistWolf: I know why Mythic Beasts support Gemini on their proxy
2020-07-17 21:03:07	lukee	Because they opened it for me :)
2020-07-17 21:04:22	lukee	They also do RPI in the cloud
2020-07-17 21:05:20	lukee	(oh sorry - just saw you have one from them too!)
2020-07-17 21:18:45	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 21:20:11	CommunistWolf	hah, awesome
2020-07-17 21:21:41	wgreenhouse	login: some TLS 1.2 suites are ephemeral
2020-07-17 21:23:29	luna	oh my god i think cloudflare is having problems
2020-07-17 21:24:06	kayw	they are
2020-07-17 21:24:26	luna	getting 502s
2020-07-17 21:25:29	@tomasino	Awesome
2020-07-17 21:25:35	luna	and that kids, is why i don't use centralized reverse proxies :)
2020-07-17 21:27:44	luna	welp i might as well get some food or something considering this is going on, i'll be back shortly
2020-07-17 21:28:38	luna	ta ta for now
2020-07-17 21:28:44		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 21:28:50	@tomasino	Good old trusty IRC
2020-07-17 21:30:00	CommunistWolf	the schadenfreude is immense
2020-07-17 21:41:54		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-17 21:42:33	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 21:47:54	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 21:53:13		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-17 23:25:20	djph	CommunistWolf: eh?
2020-07-17 23:26:17	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 23:38:15		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-17 23:43:11		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-07-17 23:43:41	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-17 23:48:40	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 01:35:40		luna has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-18 01:35:51	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 01:47:08	luna	now i'm just crossing my fingers hoping i don't mess up sending a reply to the mailing list
2020-07-18 01:47:38	luna	from what i can tell, i need the In-Reply-To header to reply to a post correctly?
2020-07-18 01:56:58	@tomasino	i screw it up every time. don't sweat it
2020-07-18 01:58:37	djph	most halfway sane MUAs will do it right
2020-07-18 02:06:02	luna	i'm currently using zoho's web client, it can accept mailto links but i have no way to tell if it uses the in-reply-to parameter from the link
2020-07-18 02:06:22	luna	considering it doesn't set the subject either doesn't really give me confidence
2020-07-18 03:16:53	luna	okay i'm scrapping this idea and just moving back to migadu lol
2020-07-18 03:44:49		luna has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-18 05:13:14	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 05:23:44	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 05:24:18	kensanata	Good morning all!
2020-07-18 06:28:54		caranatar has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-18 06:35:06	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 06:39:30	login	zoho lost a client
2020-07-18 07:42:12	kensanata	Who's zoho?
2020-07-18 07:45:11		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-18 07:45:20	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 09:42:28	djph	o/
2020-07-18 11:59:07	wgreenhouse	kensanata: SaaS groupware vendor
2020-07-18 12:51:19		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-18 13:05:38	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 15:49:07		everbern has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-18 15:56:01	makeworld	gemini://kwiecien.us/logarion/gemini-client-review.gmi
2020-07-18 15:56:08	makeworld	Client reviews!! (Not by me)
2020-07-18 15:59:35	Sario	Cool find
2020-07-18 16:12:17	Sario	Great reviews! I hope this stays updated, it'll be a great resource for newcomers.
2020-07-18 16:20:17	makeworld	Yeah definitely
2020-07-18 17:23:56	kensanata	Is that page available via the web? The irony is that I want to show it to people who haven't seen Gemspace, yet.
2020-07-18 17:24:56	kensanata	Ah. https://kwiecien.us/gemini-client-review.html!
2020-07-18 17:28:59	kensanata	I also love Elpher.
2020-07-18 17:31:28	Sario528	kensanata: remember we have a couple of proxies for browsing gemspace from a standard web browser
2020-07-18 17:33:57	kensanata	I wrote one myself, I know.
2020-07-18 17:42:02	Sario528	Ahh, oops.
2020-07-18 18:03:56	tiwesdaeg	kensanata: do you have the code available for it?
2020-07-18 18:04:01		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2020-07-18 18:05:58	tildebeast1	what's a good (as in easy to get started!) gemini server? is gemserve OK?
2020-07-18 18:06:07	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 18:06:07	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-07-18 18:07:20	tiwesdaeg	tomasino's tiny ncat example for a single file is pretty easy
2020-07-18 18:07:49	@tomasino	gemini://tomasino.org
2020-07-18 18:08:51	kensanata	tiwesdaeg: the site is https://alexschroeder.ch/soweli-lukin and the source is part of nimi-mute: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/nimi-mute/about/#soweli-lukin
2020-07-18 18:10:18	tiwesdaeg	awesome, thanks!
2020-07-18 18:11:46	kensanata	If you like Perl... :D
2020-07-18 18:21:59	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 18:23:49	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 18:24:21	luna	hello once again
2020-07-18 18:28:08	luna	might start working on some dumb gemini site ideas since i have nothing else to do
2020-07-18 18:29:57		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-18 18:41:52	makeworld	Like what luna?
2020-07-18 18:42:06	luna	not really sure yet lol
2020-07-18 18:48:12	makeworld	Do you have a gemlog up?
2020-07-18 18:49:21	kensanata	Now to find the email addresses of acdw and maleza...
2020-07-18 18:49:41	kensanata	Where is our gemini-mention!
2020-07-18 18:49:43	luna	if i do make a gemlog, it would probably be more microblog-type posts
2020-07-18 18:51:13	luna	i'm also still stressing out over email hosting, i feel dumb for constantly thinking about it
2020-07-18 18:52:48	kensanata	Heh. I finally solved my email hosting issues in recent years.
2020-07-18 18:53:01	kensanata	I hope they remain resolved.
2020-07-18 18:53:22	tildebeast1	what do you recommend for mail, kensanata?
2020-07-18 18:54:00	kensanata	tildebeast1: I use migadu because I live in Switzerland and they host in Switzerland, and I get to own the domain, and I felt their setup instructions were super easy to follow.
2020-07-18 18:54:27	tildebeast1	are they mail-only hosts, or do they have that kind of option?
2020-07-18 18:54:30	kensanata	tildebeast1: Also, they offer normal imap and smtp unlike tutanova and proton.
2020-07-18 18:54:43	kensanata	tildebeast1: I think they're email only.
2020-07-18 18:54:49	tildebeast1	nice.
2020-07-18 18:54:52	luna	i can't decide whether i should stick to zoho or migadu really
2020-07-18 18:55:00	kensanata	tildebeast1: Well, there's a web mail option which I've used once or twice.
2020-07-18 18:55:13	tildebeast1	still leaves the issue of somewhere that lets me do the dns records too :)
2020-07-18 18:56:19	kensanata	tildebeast1: Not sure what you mean, are you trying to move from one registrar to another, or are you saying that being in control of your dns allows you to control whether the mail hoster's webmail gets exposed or not?
2020-07-18 18:56:36	luna	i'd pay less for zoho's cheapest paid plan compared to migadu's cheapest plan, but migadu feels a bit nicer to use
2020-07-18 18:57:03	kensanata	I moved from Google to Migadu and liked it. Never used Zoho.
2020-07-18 18:57:09	luna	i've used digitalocean for my nameservers since my registrar's wasn't that great
2020-07-18 18:57:48	kensanata	Wow, I got nothing for maleza and acdw. Given that people complain about the difficulties of implementing webmentions, I think it's amazing how useless mail is because people don't leave their email addresses in their capsules.
2020-07-18 18:57:58	tildebeast1	well, i guess i can just pick a registrar and leave it at that, so long as they make it easy to edit the dns records. currently use tsohost for both registrar and a hosting package but definitely not feeling the love for them any more :)
2020-07-18 18:58:43	luna	i've kind of wanted to move my domain to gandi so that i can just kill two birds with one stone but they don't support dkim directly
2020-07-18 18:59:52	kensanata	Would you leave your email address on a service I hosted? Something where you need to sign up saying "my URL is bla and my email is foo@bar" (via email to me personally) and then I'd implement a webmention server and a command line tool that lets you say "gemini-mention <my-url> <mentioned-url>" and if you do, I'll send an email to the owner of <mentioned-url>?
2020-07-18 19:00:06	kensanata	luna: I use Gandi for my DNS.
2020-07-18 19:01:17	luna	they're the second or third cheapest option for my tld too afaik which is nice
2020-07-18 19:01:44	luna	would be even cheaper than getting zoho separately
2020-07-18 19:02:13	luna	but since i got the domain on the first of this month i can't transfer it yet anyways :P
2020-07-18 19:02:15	kensanata	luna: What did you mean regarding "DKIM directly"?
2020-07-18 19:03:30	luna	i'm still a bit confused as to how dkim works but they their faq just says that they don't support it
2020-07-18 19:04:46	luna	but that you can still add your own key in the dns and "see with your outgoing email provider concerning the configuration of their mail server for the service"
2020-07-18 19:21:38	kensanata	HM.
2020-07-18 19:22:59	kensanata	I just looked at their DNS diagnostics page for my domain again, and it says "DKIM Public Key(s) Status OK" and lists stuff like "Key1 is correctly delegated via CNAME to key1.alexschroeder.ch._domainkey.migadu.com"
2020-07-18 19:23:17	kensanata	https://admin.migadu.com/domains/12981/dns/instructions#dkim
2020-07-18 19:27:40	luna	i mean using gandi's own mail hosting
2020-07-18 19:28:27	kensanata	Ah
2020-07-18 19:31:27	luna	https://docs.gandi.net/en/gandimail/faq/general_questions.html#does-gandimail-support-dkim
2020-07-18 19:31:41	luna	honestly at this point i should just stop caring and stick with migadu's free plan lmao
2020-07-18 19:32:15	luna	idk why the signature bugs me at all in the first place, but i'm glad i just gave in and used it anyways
2020-07-18 20:05:27		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-18 20:15:35		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-18 20:21:25	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 20:25:40	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 20:48:41	kensanata	Aaahhh... I think I figured out which address to whitelist in order to not fish half of your emails to the mailing list from my Junk folder!
2020-07-18 20:49:00	kensanata	It's gemini-bounces@...
2020-07-18 20:50:38	luna	might come in handy for me, i think a few posts went to my junk folder earlier
2020-07-18 20:51:31	kensanata	Yeah, I had whitelisted sdf and protonmail and the mailing list address itself, all to no avail.
2020-07-18 20:55:17	kevinsan	luna, with DKIM (roughly), your email gets signed by your sending server. Your public key goes into a TXT record for your domain. A receiving server can look this up and verify the signature.
2020-07-18 20:55:57	luna	ah, so it does depend on the smtp servers supporting it
2020-07-18 20:56:44	kevinsan	I think in principle the client could do this (it's just an SMTP header), but I think servers usually do it (via dkimproxy, for example)
2020-07-18 20:57:22	luna	oh yeah, i suppose there is nothing stopping the client from doing it
2020-07-18 21:07:19	kevinsan	kensanata, you moved from Google to migadu. How do they compare for spam detection (and including false positives)?
2020-07-18 21:08:26	kensanata	kevinsan: I've had to set my spam filters to paranoid, and now I have had a few false positives, but I *think* it eventually turned out that most of those were protonmail users on the mailing list.
2020-07-18 21:08:53	kensanata	Newsletters often turn up in Junk as well, but those are just as well, usually.
2020-07-18 21:09:34	kensanata	kevinsan: Basically you can set the severity level of your spam filtering.
2020-07-18 21:10:11	kensanata	kevinsan: https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2019-09-19_Spam has some numbers
2020-07-18 21:10:14	makeworld	I've sent an email to the list asking for a SUCCESS AS STREAM status code
2020-07-18 21:10:24	makeworld	tomasino I believe you've talked about this?
2020-07-18 21:10:51		luna has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-18 21:10:53	kensanata	kevinsan: Those numbers are from before I joined the mailing list.
2020-07-18 21:11:14	kevinsan	thanks. I looked them up today and their honesty is refreshing. kinda feel they're trustworthy.
2020-07-18 21:11:35	kensanata	Who knows.
2020-07-18 21:11:44	kensanata	At least I haven't had any negative experiences until now.
2020-07-18 21:11:56	kensanata	But ever since Snowden I'd say: there is no trust.
2020-07-18 21:12:46	kensanata	Also I live in Switzerland and I don't give a dry sparrow's shit to arguments about Swissness and trust...
2020-07-18 21:13:21	login	did you vote for sovereign money or against?
2020-07-18 21:13:23	kensanata	But yeah, at least it's not obviously five eyes or any other of prime number eyes.
2020-07-18 21:13:44	login	it would remove private lending completely
2020-07-18 21:14:01	kevinsan	ah, I just mean trust as in will do a good job. email is as secure as my front lawn.
2020-07-18 21:14:12	kensanata	login: I don't remember and it seems I didn't blog about it so I cannot recall.
2020-07-18 21:15:10	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 21:15:23	kensanata	login: These days I'd say that the way banks create money is super untrustworthy, but all our trust in banks would not come back with sovereign money so these days I wouldn't see the point.
2020-07-18 21:15:41	kensanata	kevinsan: In which case I can recommend them. :D
2020-07-18 21:16:10	@tomasino	I did, makeworld
2020-07-18 21:16:31	@tomasino	Another 20 something code would indicate stream
2020-07-18 21:16:36	makeworld	Well feel free to chime in! :)
2020-07-18 21:17:49	luna	apologies for all the disconnects ^^'
2020-07-18 21:19:12	luna	lol i think this filter doesn't like protonmail addresses
2020-07-18 21:19:43	luna	riseup? straight to inbox! protonmail? *straight to junk*
2020-07-18 21:23:17	kensanata	luna: Well, you can look at the headers of those messages and you'll see how this happens.
2020-07-18 21:24:47	luna	seems like one of the protonmail messages got a spam score of 10
2020-07-18 21:25:26	luna	i can't really see what causes the score to be what it is, though
2020-07-18 21:25:47	kensanata	"Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=protonmail.com header.s=protonmail header.b=yOeChzzP; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF" header.from=protonmail.com (policy=quarantine); spf=softfail (aspmx1.migadu.com: 2001:470:142:3::10 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of gemini-bounces@lists.orbitalfox.eu) ...
2020-07-18 21:26:17	kensanata	Whatever all that means, I see "no valid SPF"
2020-07-18 21:26:30	kevinsan	wow, no wonder. did the content include anything about viagra?
2020-07-18 21:27:02	kevinsan	SPF failure means that protonmail's server is not authorised to carry email for your domain.
2020-07-18 21:27:52	kevinsan	DKIM fail means that the content of the message does not verify against the public key defined for your domain
2020-07-18 21:27:56	kensanata	I had a similar problem with migadu and the mailing list, however. Blogged about it, too. https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-06-04_DMARC_an_Mailing_Lists
2020-07-18 21:28:07	luna	"dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=protonmail.com (policy=quarantine);"
2020-07-18 21:28:37	luna	dkim failed too
2020-07-18 21:28:45	luna	but ironically for me, the spf passed
2020-07-18 21:29:43	kevinsan	oh, i see now - it was dmarc that failed because of the spf configuration
2020-07-18 21:30:45	kensanata	All of that only vaguely tells me something. It would be cool if there was something we could tell the list admins so that things "get fixed". :)
2020-07-18 21:31:24	kevinsan	I wrote a script to generate a self-hosted email setup, and documented it here. https://www.susa.net/wordpress/2019/08/lxd-email-smtp-imap-webmail-with-opensmtpd-dovecot-and-roundcube/
2020-07-18 21:31:55	kevinsan	maybe some of the code will help you understand what's needed?
2020-07-18 21:33:05	kensanata	As migadu is hosting my email, I feel like I'm not going to do anything. I tried to host my own email and decided I no longer want ot.
2020-07-18 21:33:24	luna	i remember considering self-hosted email myself, just felt a bit too daunting
2020-07-18 21:33:37	luna	i gotta goooo
2020-07-18 21:33:40		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-18 21:33:41	kensanata	I've done it twice and I never felt comfortable about it.
2020-07-18 21:34:44	kevinsan	I agree, ok for secondary emails, but it's a complicated business, and a bit of a moving target.
2020-07-18 21:47:04	kensanata	I feel like I need a good idea for how to implement looking at image galleries using Gemini. Example: gemini://alexschroeder.ch/do/gallery/2020-aminona
2020-07-18 21:47:22	kensanata	As I zip through, I'm just not feeling it.
2020-07-18 22:12:53	kevinsan	Perhaps you could pre-generate a page of thumbnails with a number superimposed - easy to remember when going back and viewing the chosen image.
2020-07-18 22:13:33	kevinsan	without caching, it would woefully inefficient. Or, ascii art? ;-)
2020-07-18 22:19:50	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 22:23:24	kevinsan	speaking of efficiency, I'm having a day when my obsession with efficent code is making me an inefficient coder. That, my friends, is irony.
2020-07-18 22:25:13	lukee	sometimes in computing we optimise for the computer, sometimes for the human and sometimes for the developer!
2020-07-18 22:25:53	lukee	human -> user!
2020-07-18 22:26:23	kevinsan	ha! i thought you were making a distinction :)
2020-07-18 22:27:03	kevinsan	i happened to do an about Geminaut as you signed off yesterday. I guess you're the author, so - Thanks!
2020-07-18 22:28:05	lukee	yes I am
2020-07-18 22:28:13	lukee	how are you getting on with it?
2020-07-18 22:28:52	kevinsan	it's really useable, and has visually nice output.
2020-07-18 22:29:04	lukee	what theme do you prefer?
2020-07-18 22:30:11	kevinsan	I've been using terminal for about a week. I was happy with the default theme before that.
2020-07-18 22:30:24	lukee	oh ok - interesting
2020-07-18 22:31:55	lukee	I think there is a tiny bit of tweaking I want to do for the terminal theme - the bullets and links should have a hanging indent I think
2020-07-18 22:32:30	kevinsan	what I yearn for is an F5 reload, and a bookmark bar. The latter because Gemini needs multiple 'starting points'. I get by just adding them to my home page.
2020-07-18 22:33:30	lukee	do you use the bookmarks menu?
2020-07-18 22:33:51	lukee	I will implement Ctrl_R for reload, and I should add F5 to that too
2020-07-18 22:34:02	kevinsan	yes, but I don't like using the mouse at all (in fact, it's often a track-point I'm using - worse still)
2020-07-18 22:34:13	lukee	at some point - they are familiar shortcuts people will have under their fingers
2020-07-18 22:35:24		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-18 22:35:54	lukee	Maybe I should also add keyboard shortcuts to the menus. For example Alt-B to get bookmarks menu
2020-07-18 22:36:57	kevinsan	Yes, that would help a lot.
2020-07-18 22:37:16	lukee	I'll look into it - that at least should be straightforward
2020-07-18 22:38:17	lukee	you can go Alt,right,right, then use the cursor keys to go into the bookmarks, but it ought to be more fluid than that
2020-07-18 22:39:52	kevinsan	I hadn't thought of that, yes it works fine.
2020-07-18 22:41:01	lukee	Next version will probably be able to show images within the client, rather than launching an external webbrowser
2020-07-18 22:41:45	lukee	I just need to finish a bit of logic and UI so you can specify a max timeout and response size before the connection is abandoned
2020-07-18 22:41:59	lukee	since in Gemini we never know how big the response is
2020-07-18 22:42:51	kevinsan	that will be useful. are you planning an image viewer pop-up, or will you replace the view?
2020-07-18 22:44:09	lukee	first iteration it will replace the view
2020-07-18 22:44:45	lukee	but I would like to do an image popup like a lightbox, which I think will feel more fluid and integrated
2020-07-18 22:46:12	kevinsan	yes, i think there are different image-viewing use-cases. like, when i'm viewing a diagram that accompanies some text, I need to also see the text.
2020-07-18 22:46:24	lukee	yes
2020-07-18 22:46:38	kevinsan	but viewing a photo, that's all I want to look at.
2020-07-18 22:47:24	lukee	how would you like to control that decision?
2020-07-18 22:47:56	kevinsan	If I was writing my own client, I'd use a ctrl-click for popup.
2020-07-18 22:49:30	lukee	another option I've considered is some kind of button or menu on the link.
2020-07-18 22:49:54	lukee	maybe like a [+] - if you clicked that it would show inline, otherwise the rest of the link would do a replace
2020-07-18 22:51:59	lukee	or another option - you click (or otherwise activate) on the link and a menu appears with "popup" and "show inline" or something like that?
2020-07-18 22:52:45	kevinsan	both of those would work, though I wonder if it would add clutter? menu sounds cumbersome
2020-07-18 22:54:38	kevinsan	a hover popup on the link could show usage (e.g. "Click to view, Ctrl-click for popup")
2020-07-18 22:55:18		dokuja has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-18 22:56:26	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-07-18 22:56:49	lukee	well all of this can be explored. My inclination is to keep the tooltip/hover popup for information about the link. But yes there is some fruitful options here
2020-07-18 22:57:04	lukee	is->are
2020-07-18 23:05:20	lukee	another feature which is sort of related is "open in new window" - where you want to be able to fork your browsing path or see two docs together
2020-07-18 23:05:54	lukee	you can start 2 copies of GemiNaut, but again a little bit cumbersome
2020-07-18 23:08:38	kevinsan	I suppose even launching a new Geminaut process with a URL would be a quick gain.
2020-07-18 23:10:10	lukee	yes, maybe even register gemini:// protocol on the machine and assign to GemiNaut, so you could click on gemini links elsewhere
2020-07-18 23:11:23	lukee	this would have to be an option, as it is a bit rude to take over a protocol without user consent
2020-07-18 23:11:36	lukee	as they might have multiple gemini clients installed
2020-07-18 23:12:02	kevinsan	just add it to the about menu, or somewhere like that?
2020-07-18 23:12:07	lukee	yes
2020-07-18 23:13:19	lukee	another option I might add if I can make it nice enough is a simple html viewer
2020-07-18 23:13:47	lukee	problem is most web pages dont flatten that well without a lot of cruft
2020-07-18 23:14:27	lukee	So the first http link you click on you would get a simplified view of that page, with a link still to launch externally in a proper browser
2020-07-18 23:14:30	kevinsan	that would be overkill, to my mind - it would bloat the exe and footprint
2020-07-18 23:15:28	kevinsan	on that subject, I was checking and a vanilla launch is ~80M, the exe that's been running for days was ~185M (working set)
2020-07-18 23:15:38	lukee	I've not convinced myself yet either for various reasons
2020-07-18 23:16:04	kevinsan	do you ever clean out the document cache, for when the application is running for days?
2020-07-18 23:16:55	lukee	huh - I get about 20M memory use
2020-07-18 23:17:44	lukee	Each time you launch a session folder is created that holds the visited pages, then when you close the whole folder is deleted
2020-07-18 23:19:07	kevinsan	I got: Working set 98M, WS Private 50M, WS Shareable 48M, WS Shared 20M
2020-07-18 23:19:16	lukee	Oh I see that task manager has a different "working set" to RAM usage
2020-07-18 23:20:23	lukee	There might be something I can do, but the system HTML control is probably doing some of its own caching, so you get the fast history navigation without refetching the pages
2020-07-18 23:20:35	kevinsan	memory usage is not an issue, i don't begrudge it!
2020-07-18 23:21:44	kevinsan	it may also be over-allocating on this machine (it has 16GB ram, and libraries sometimes get greedy)
2020-07-18 23:22:49	lukee	that sounds like a beefy machine - here I have 4Gb which was an upgrade of this old thinkpad! I figure if it is nice and snappy on this, it will be nice for everyone
2020-07-18 23:25:07	kevinsan	thinkpads just go on and on, always my first choice.
2020-07-18 23:25:32	lukee	Well it was nice to chat - its late here so I'm going to turn in. Feel free to drop me a line any time if you have some thoughts of ideas for GemiNaut.
2020-07-18 23:25:47	kevinsan	sure thing, thanks.
2020-07-18 23:25:58		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		230AAETPM has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		caranatar has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		mmmattyx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		inex has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		links has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		dkibi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		audiodude has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		Ernoz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		tildebeast1 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		djph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:52		codingquark has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		siina has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		Sario has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		andinus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		englishm has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		xj9 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		calamitous has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		dozens has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		kevinsan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		obrut has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		Nalaph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		sndr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		dokuja has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		Sario528 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		m68k has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		pekka20 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		companion_cube has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		tadzik has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		dctrud has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		mozz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		prisonpotato has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		admicos has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		rjt_znc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		drskrzyk has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		xq has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		cyrus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		jbg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		omni has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:32:53		omse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	Ernoz has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	inex has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	audiodude has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	dozens has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	tildebeast1 has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	tadzik has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	prisonpotato has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo julienxx ben] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	230AAETPM has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:33:17	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o xq] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-07-19 00:37:04	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:42:12	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:44:18	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 00:44:19	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 01:07:40	caranatar	trying to decide how to implement redirect and gone for my server... right now I do a check if the requested URL starts with a configured redirect or gone path, but I think that could cause problems
2020-07-19 01:07:52	caranatar	like if you mark /a/b/c as gone
2020-07-19 01:07:58	caranatar	and you have /a/b/c.gmi
2020-07-19 01:08:04	caranatar	that would get caught up as gone
2020-07-19 01:14:45	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 02:05:55		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-19 02:22:25		bard has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-19 02:22:31	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 02:23:00		bard has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-19 02:23:06	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 02:49:33		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-19 03:19:07		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-19 03:57:51	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 04:49:52	luna	i wonder if there's a way to run different host programs mapped to different url directories...
2020-07-19 05:14:41		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-19 05:26:47	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 05:48:44		luna has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-19 05:56:38		Ernoz has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-19 06:01:26		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-19 06:04:55	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 08:05:21	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 08:31:48	@xq	tomasino: thank for keeping my flower alive :D
2020-07-19 08:32:48	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 08:40:38	epoch	o/
2020-07-19 08:43:34	@xq	hey epoch
2020-07-19 08:50:17	epoch	what's up?
2020-07-19 08:52:04	@xq	too many projects!
2020-07-19 08:52:42	epoch	iktf
2020-07-19 08:54:55	@xq	expoch --expand iktf
2020-07-19 08:55:22	epoch	I know that feel
2020-07-19 08:55:25	@xq	aaah
2020-07-19 08:55:34	@xq	yeah
2020-07-19 08:55:52	@xq	i derailed completly from kristall and hackvr to remove bitrot from older projects
2020-07-19 08:56:04	epoch	"ars longa vita brevis"
2020-07-19 08:56:34	@xq	now i'm refactoring a UI project of mine to finally enable me to control my home automation stuff
2020-07-19 08:59:15	epoch	is that in zig too?
2020-07-19 09:02:27	@xq	yep
2020-07-19 09:02:36	⚡	xq writes everything in zig nowadays
2020-07-19 09:05:45	dkibi	I derailed from my main gemini thing into doing an extension of the labyrint cgi
2020-07-19 09:06:15	@xq	:D
2020-07-19 09:06:25	login	is zig a good programming language?
2020-07-19 09:06:42	@xq	imho yes, very
2020-07-19 09:06:56	@xq	but, disclaimer: it's not finished yet and stuff may break
2020-07-19 09:07:05	@xq	that's why i need to clean out bitrot in older projects
2020-07-19 09:07:27	@xq	when zig hits 1.0, it will be stable and it is not planned to continue development of language features
2020-07-19 09:09:14	@xq	but imagine zig as a modernized C
2020-07-19 09:09:31	@xq	no classes, no OOP as a language feature
2020-07-19 09:16:12		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-19 09:24:21	epoch	> modernized C
2020-07-19 09:24:31	epoch	kind of like golang, but not google?
2020-07-19 09:24:37	@xq	no, Go is not C
2020-07-19 09:24:50	@xq	zig has no automatic memory management, no garbage collector
2020-07-19 09:25:05	epoch	that's good.
2020-07-19 09:25:05	@xq	you have struct,enum,union and functions
2020-07-19 09:25:07	@xq	and pointers
2020-07-19 09:25:17	@xq	but with a improved type system
2020-07-19 09:25:31	@xq	"extern struct" is equivalent to a C struct, "extern union" to a C union
2020-07-19 09:26:00	@xq	but zig unions are allowed to store the inactive union member in debug mode and will ensure you only access the active one
2020-07-19 09:26:09	epoch	is there a way to force /really/ strict types?
2020-07-19 09:26:22	@xq	you mean like distinct U32?
2020-07-19 09:26:33	@xq	or can you elaborate?
2020-07-19 09:26:33	epoch	like if I make a type named radians and a type named degrees and both are actually float
2020-07-19 09:26:38	@xq	ah
2020-07-19 09:26:42	@xq	there's a proposal for this
2020-07-19 09:26:51	@xq	so it may happen
2020-07-19 09:26:54	@xq	i'd love to see that as well :)
2020-07-19 09:26:54	epoch	I'd like to be able to have the compiler bitch really loud about it
2020-07-19 09:27:14	@xq	we already have a really cool feature called "nonexhaustive enums"
2020-07-19 09:27:18	epoch	because right now I'm using a struct for each of those.
2020-07-19 09:27:19	@xq	which is the right choice for IDs
2020-07-19 09:27:21	@xq	so
2020-07-19 09:27:29	@xq	const SomeID = enum(u32) { _ };
2020-07-19 09:27:44	@xq	→ SOmeID is non-arithmetic, but can be compared with == and != and is backed by a 32 bit integer :)
2020-07-19 09:28:24	epoch	that's nifty.
2020-07-19 09:28:34	@xq	yep
2020-07-19 09:28:43	@xq	and zig has method call syntax
2020-07-19 09:28:56	@xq	so you can declare functons inside a struct and do value.foo()
2020-07-19 09:29:24	@xq	(and you can declare those on enums and unions too)
2020-07-19 09:29:27	@xq	which is nice
2020-07-19 09:29:43	@xq	my OpenGL wrapper is actually just a set of typed enums with methods :D
2020-07-19 09:31:07	@xq	the type system is really advanced compared to C
2020-07-19 09:31:16	@xq	which is one of the strengths
2020-07-19 09:31:27	epoch	hrm. what makes a struct with methods not a class?
2020-07-19 09:31:51	@xq	well, it's not classic OOP, so no builtin inheritance and all that stuff
2020-07-19 09:31:59	@xq	no constructors, destructors, ...
2020-07-19 09:32:04	@xq	but convencience in calling
2020-07-19 09:32:10	@xq	how many c projects are there that are just
2020-07-19 09:32:18	@xq	obj_init(), obj_foo(), obj_bar(), obj_delete)(
2020-07-19 09:32:19	@xq	:D
2020-07-19 09:32:23	epoch	yeah
2020-07-19 09:32:30	epoch	and passing the same variable to the start of each
2020-07-19 09:32:33	@xq	yep :D
2020-07-19 09:32:46	@xq	pointers are also more finegrained which is absolutely awesome
2020-07-19 09:32:55	@xq	and you have slices (ptr+len)
2020-07-19 09:33:28	@xq	so instead of doing "void foo(uint8_t * bytes, size_t len)" you just do "fn foo(bytes: []u8) void"
2020-07-19 09:35:59	thombles	zig looks super cool, especially its ability to compile C code for any platform
2020-07-19 09:36:33	@xq	yep
2020-07-19 09:36:35	@xq	this is also super-sexy
2020-07-19 09:36:50	@xq	i had to test some code on my RPI yesterday
2020-07-19 09:36:52	thombles	I'm waiting to see a bit more adoption before I jump on, I'm still on the never-ending treadmill of getting the hang of rust
2020-07-19 09:36:57	@xq	zig cc -target arm-linux-musl foo.c
2020-07-19 09:37:22	thombles	The new foundation is a great step
2020-07-19 09:37:25	@xq	yeah
2020-07-19 09:37:31	@xq	first-class cross compilation is such a nice project goal
2020-07-19 09:37:42	@xq	more like "painless cross compilation"
2020-07-19 09:38:18	login	the first compilation is always cross-compilation
2020-07-19 09:39:17	@xq	my current project is mixing Zig and C++
2020-07-19 09:39:25	@xq	which also works with cross compilation
2020-07-19 09:40:09	login	how do you call zig functions from C++?
2020-07-19 09:53:57	@xq	extern "C" void my_zig_fun(MyStruct foo);
2020-07-19 09:54:06	@xq	zig has full support for C ABI
2020-07-19 10:00:13	@xq	same goes the other way round
2020-07-19 10:00:20	@xq	you can just import C headers in zig and use them
2020-07-19 10:22:17	login	wow
2020-07-19 10:23:22	@xq	yeah :D
2020-07-19 10:23:35	@xq	translate-c is not perfect and struggles with a lot of macro magic
2020-07-19 10:23:41	@xq	but it works for 95% of all cases
2020-07-19 10:23:47	@xq	SDL just works for example
2020-07-19 10:24:11	login	SDL being?
2020-07-19 10:33:32	@xq	Simple Direct Media Layer
2020-07-19 10:33:38	@xq	library for games and stuff
2020-07-19 11:55:52	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 12:06:08	@tomasino	xq: my pleasure
2020-07-19 12:10:26	@xq	:)
2020-07-19 12:11:05	CommunistWolf	oh hey, zig
2020-07-19 12:11:51	@xq	hey CommunistWolf!
2020-07-19 12:11:58	@xq	we are at least 3 now :D
2020-07-19 12:12:02	CommunistWolf	:D
2020-07-19 12:12:26	CommunistWolf	I did an advent of code in it last year, enjoyable language, compiler was still a lot buggy at the time though
2020-07-19 12:12:44	CommunistWolf	I'll probably go back to it once I no longer have to dig through LLVM IR to work out what the bug in my code is ;)
2020-07-19 12:13:05	@xq	it's waaay better now :D
2020-07-19 12:13:14	@xq	usable in daily use
2020-07-19 12:13:56	CommunistWolf	I actually popped in to wonder about linux-compatible, mobile-friendly gemini clients. my debianphone is very close to functional now, but of course, firefox is a pig on it
2020-07-19 12:23:59	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-07-19 12:24:08	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 12:24:11		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-19 12:32:45	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 12:33:12		tildebeast1 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-19 12:55:21	@tomasino	oink
2020-07-19 13:16:54	wgreenhouse	CommunistWolf: my phone has elpher :)
2020-07-19 13:25:55	omni	I built and run ncgopher in Termux on android
2020-07-19 13:28:46	omni	CommunistWolf: what phone do you run debian on?
2020-07-19 13:29:10	CommunistWolf	pinephone
2020-07-19 13:29:38	CommunistWolf	it has a terminal, but it's not going to be the best for it I think
2020-07-19 13:29:57	CommunistWolf	something gnome+libhandy would probably work
2020-07-19 14:06:13	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 14:10:17	natpen	A random poll, in case anyone has opinions. I'm making an update to GUS so that it will "expire" catalogued content and thus trigger recrawls based on some heuristics. Do you think the following would be a decent first pass set of defaults? Homepage or gemlog index: 3 hours. Binary content: 30 days. Everything else: 7 days.
2020-07-19 14:12:55	natpen	This also opens the door to allowing sites to specify their own expiration rules, if there was desire for that. I'm kinda hoping this would just work though
2020-07-19 14:12:57	Sario	I know very little about server stuff, but I guess that sounds ok?
2020-07-19 14:13:54	natpen	I guess... maybe the question wasn't super clear. How about... how often do you update pages on your site that _aren't_ part of your gemlog?
2020-07-19 14:19:00	natpen	I'm probably overthinking this LOL. It's probably going to be a net decrease in crawl traffic to everyone's sites, so I should just try it :)
2020-07-19 14:19:26	@tomasino	7 days seems reasonable
2020-07-19 14:19:35	@tomasino	even if people are doing it faster, we're smolweb
2020-07-19 14:19:36	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-19 14:20:18	@tomasino	what about a fibonacci expiry per resources
2020-07-19 14:20:37	@tomasino	check in 1 day, if unchanged, then 1 day, then if unchanged, 2 days, then if unchanged 3 days, then if unchanged 5 days, then 8, 13, etc
2020-07-19 14:21:03	@tomasino	things that are routinely updated would inherit a faster crawl and stuff that's been static a while would only get background updates
2020-07-19 14:21:07	@tomasino	after a long time
2020-07-19 14:21:17	@tomasino	more data for you to store, perhaps, but only an int, right?
2020-07-19 14:21:39	@tomasino	you are already planning on storing last crawl date, so "interval" would be simple
2020-07-19 14:21:50	@tomasino	if not fibbonaci, then just exponential
2020-07-19 14:21:55	natpen	That would be amazing. I'm only just starting to track whether or not content changed vs last version as of this imminent update. So I think that would be a very doable extension
2020-07-19 14:22:13	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-19 14:22:31	@tomasino	and it reset when it updates back to 1 day, so... easy peasy
2020-07-19 14:22:46	@tomasino	you could even set a max of 365 days if you want
2020-07-19 14:22:56	@tomasino	or 60 or whatever feels right
2020-07-19 14:23:19	natpen	Oh! Hmm. That's a really nice and simple idea. I like it a lot!
2020-07-19 14:23:39	⚡	tomasino had a good idea! yay!!
2020-07-19 14:24:13	natpen	erm, very off-topic, but how do you make messages like that??
2020-07-19 14:24:43	omni	/me
2020-07-19 14:24:47	omni	?
2020-07-19 14:24:51	⚡	omni 
2020-07-19 14:25:41	⚡	omni is an irc old-timer
2020-07-19 14:28:36	⚡	tomasino loves IRC
2020-07-19 14:28:37	@tomasino	:D
2020-07-19 14:30:46	Sario	I'm very fond of IRC.
2020-07-19 14:31:12	Sario	Still better then anything else out there, imo
2020-07-19 14:31:19		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-19 14:33:42	omni	/disco fever
2020-07-19 14:33:53	omni	>:B
2020-07-19 14:35:10	omni	but yeah, I've yet to find something better than IRC for chat
2020-07-19 14:36:51	@tomasino	cheese is pretty good
2020-07-19 14:42:05	omni	CommunistWolf: pinephone would've been my first guess, nice. progressing well?
2020-07-19 14:43:21	omni	I'm a bit keen on giving kristall a spin https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall
2020-07-19 14:44:13	omni	so far I've only tried a few gemini clients written in rust, castor being the graphical one, to settle on ncgopher for now
2020-07-19 14:46:01	@tomasino	kristall is pretty awesome
2020-07-19 14:46:27	@tomasino	it was a pain to get all the Qt stuff set up to build it, but xq is working on packaging stuff so that shouldn't be a problem for long
2020-07-19 14:46:59	@xq	tomasino: latest build is available as a AppImage or Windows build on https://kristall.random-projects.net/
2020-07-19 14:47:16	@xq	omni: try kristall
2020-07-19 14:47:21	Sario	omni: someone did a review of all the clients, gemini://kwiecien.us:1965/logarion/gemini-client-review.gmi
2020-07-19 14:59:57		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-19 15:04:56	omni	Sario: nice! I'll read that later
2020-07-19 15:06:11	omni	since qt, kristall should run fine without x? I use sway/wayland on the desktop
2020-07-19 15:06:27	omni	an alpine .apk would be nice ;)
2020-07-19 15:08:51	@tomasino	appImage!! the greatest
2020-07-19 15:08:54	@tomasino	you rule, xq
2020-07-19 15:08:57	omni	actually, I think it was when I noticed that castor showed up in the alpinelinux edge repo that I began looking at gemini and gave it a try
2020-07-19 15:09:09	@xq	omni: wayland is no problem
2020-07-19 15:09:39	omni	neat!
2020-07-19 15:10:15	omni	I should learn how to package for alpine. should be easy, just haven' tried yet
2020-07-19 15:12:39	@xq	:D
2020-07-19 15:12:52	@xq	i should motivate myself to continue some kristall stuff
2020-07-19 15:24:27	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 15:25:19	@tomasino	on the cert error page, prompt to clear/reset the cert we have on file?
2020-07-19 15:58:55	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 16:56:39	CommunistWolf	omni: it's basically usable now. mobian just got camera support
2020-07-19 16:57:25	CommunistWolf	the TOTP application isnt' working for me, otherwise, it's a phone, but running debian
2020-07-19 17:00:03	▬▬▶	makeworld9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 17:01:47		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-19 17:01:47	ℹ 	makeworld9 is now known as makeworld
2020-07-19 17:56:50	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 17:57:09	login	hi coleman
2020-07-19 17:57:15	login	envs
2020-07-19 17:57:25	login	is pretty and cool, yes?
2020-07-19 17:58:38	coleman	hey there
2020-07-19 17:59:12	coleman	Yeah, I am enjoying it as a gemini hosting platform. I still haven't backed anything up! But it's on my todo list.
2020-07-19 20:04:51	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-19 20:20:58		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-19 20:37:29		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-19 21:40:47		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-19 22:04:52	omni	CommunistWolf: that's awesome! although I'd probably run pmos on it if I had one, since I've fallen for alpinelinux
2020-07-19 22:06:44	omni	I didn't know about mobian, kewl
2020-07-19 22:15:02	CommunistWolf	postmarketos is reasonable, but crosscompiling for it is a pain
2020-07-19 22:15:38	CommunistWolf	I have some huge rust projects I want to run on it, it's really painful to do that on-phone
2020-07-20 00:15:59	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 00:29:52	▬▬▶	gambit has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 00:42:47		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-20 01:55:15	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 02:32:40	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 03:00:13		gambit has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-20 03:31:35		caranatar has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-20 03:32:03	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 03:33:46	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 04:43:26	luna	tfw you accidentally send a mailing list reply to the sender instead of the list
2020-07-20 04:43:31	luna	wh oops
2020-07-20 04:47:25	caranatar	I have to admit that I've never used mailing lists much so the first time I sent a message to the gemini list it was a big "oh god i hope i'm doing this right i'm probably not and everybody is gonna hate me for some reason" moment
2020-07-20 04:52:10	luna	i also realized that i fucked up something i posted, forgot that pem encoding exists and that increases filesizes
2020-07-20 04:52:15	luna	i feel really dumb
2020-07-20 04:52:49	luna	no idea how i passed that when i was writing that email in the first place :P
2020-07-20 04:55:46	luna	i've just been spending all day messing with kde because i might switch to it soon
2020-07-20 04:55:56	luna	also feel half awake even though i got up pretty late agh
2020-07-20 04:56:27		caranatar has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-20 04:56:45	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 05:33:40		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-20 06:14:35	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 06:25:43	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 06:25:46		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-20 09:54:32		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-20 09:56:06	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 10:09:58	djph	caranatar: hah, even with being on several mailing lists, the same thought goes through my head every time I start writing
2020-07-20 10:11:41	kevinsan	i like when people make daft mistakes, because i feel less daft about my own many daft mistakes.
2020-07-20 10:13:55	djph	caranatar: I always have trouble with balancing writing "smart questions" and "not having war and peace"
2020-07-20 10:25:44	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 11:18:09	⚡	omni blurts out an idea
2020-07-20 11:18:26	omni	a web-proxy, to browse web content through gemini
2020-07-20 11:18:48	omni	perhaps something readerviewy
2020-07-20 11:43:17	natpen	Instageminipaper :)
2020-07-20 11:55:42	kensanata	Heh.
2020-07-20 11:55:48	kensanata	It does sound promising.
2020-07-20 11:56:21	kensanata	After all, other people have been translating the HTML of their blogs to Gemini.
2020-07-20 11:56:40	kensanata	And I've translated Wikipedia's wikitext to gemtext...
2020-07-20 13:13:55	ℹ 	julienxx_ is now known as julienxx
2020-07-20 13:13:56	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-07-20 15:01:16	kevinsan	omni, I wrote up on readerviewy stuff that might help you here: https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/html2gmi
2020-07-20 15:01:33	kevinsan	Here are some examples generated using this - gemini://gemini.susa.net/gen/
2020-07-20 15:20:02	kensanata	That's the one!
2020-07-20 15:20:21	makeworld	kevinsan: Cool project!
2020-07-20 15:22:00	makeworld	I noticed you have a diff on the README though, you should be able to highlight that if you start the block with: ```diff
2020-07-20 15:22:48	kevinsan	makeworld, I'm going to tie it in with https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/send-tab-url so that I can click a button in Firefox and send the current page to Gemini space
2020-07-20 15:23:42	makeworld	Hmm interesting
2020-07-20 15:23:48	makeworld	Pretty cool!
2020-07-20 15:24:33	kevinsan	I'll emphasize that really none of the hard work is mine - it's 99% Reader Mode and html2text. they do a good job of sorting out the mess that is HTML.
2020-07-20 15:26:18	makeworld	Yeah I saw the reader thing, that's cool
2020-07-20 15:26:33	makeworld	You should post it in the list!
2020-07-20 15:29:46	kevinsan	thanks for the diff tip, looks nice.
2020-07-20 15:32:02	omni	xq: I just compiled kristall on alinelinux, extra packages my system needed in order to build were: qt5-qtbase-dev qtchooser qt5-qtsvg-dev qt5-qtmultimedia-dev
2020-07-20 15:32:18	@xq	more info for buildinstructions !:)
2020-07-20 15:32:21	omni	*alpinelinux (fingers...)
2020-07-20 15:39:26	@xq	anything else that is important?
2020-07-20 15:51:12	omni	xq: not that I know of, but I probablye had some prerequisites already installed, like make through build-base and some qt5 things since I run other qt stuff like qutebrowser
2020-07-20 15:51:40	@xq	well, soomebody will complain eventually :D
2020-07-20 15:56:16	omni	yeah, but make/build-base should be pretty obvious
2020-07-20 15:58:06	omni	some qt packages may not be, like libraries kristall links to, right?
2020-07-20 15:59:34	omni	qtchooser was to get a symlink in my $PATH to qmake from qt5-qtbase-dev
2020-07-20 16:02:35	omni	kevinsan: that's pretty neat, thanks!
2020-07-20 16:50:34		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-20 17:09:17	kensanata	I'm enjoying clicking on gemini://typed-hole.org/roulette
2020-07-20 17:20:11	kevinsan	kensanata, there's a time-sink if ever I saw one. could you imagine doing this on the web? click-bait...click-bait...click-bait...link-farm... ... ... click-bait
2020-07-20 17:28:34	dkibi	xq: when I get redirected then click on a link and then click back I end up on the redirecting url again (this is annoying with the roulette)
2020-07-20 17:29:22	@xq	dkibi: huh? that shouldn't happen
2020-07-20 17:31:38	dkibi	I'm on 7fbf49b216895d6870f46f54ab8e1289f541a723
2020-07-20 17:35:07	kensanata	kevinsan: Goes to show that a new protocol and a new text format won't uplift our monkey brains.
2020-07-20 17:36:37	kevinsan	yup, but at least all the content so far has actually been worth reading. quite refreshing really.
2020-07-20 17:39:21	kensanata	Heh. I ended up on http://ifmud.port4000.com/
2020-07-20 17:39:30	kensanata	People still play muds and mushes?
2020-07-20 17:40:41	kevinsan	do we have an RSS reader/parser for gemtext?
2020-07-20 17:41:02	kensanata	How would that work?
2020-07-20 17:41:27	kensanata	You mean: parse a bunch of gemtext files in a directory and take "# headers" and modification times into account?
2020-07-20 17:42:25	kevinsan	Not sure. I'm looking at one of the BBC News RSS feeds and thinking - how can I look at this in a Gemini browser?
2020-07-20 17:44:27	omni	didn't I read about something like RSS for gemini at the mailing list..?
2020-07-20 17:44:37	kevinsan	I suppose just grep out the links, or parse the XML - just seems like the kind of thing that would have been done already.
2020-07-20 17:44:53	caranatar	kensanata: > people still play muds and mushes? < that's a weird question to ask over the irc channel for a new gopher-like protocol :)
2020-07-20 17:44:57	kevinsan	omni, do we have an archive of the mailing list? I've only been on it for about aweek
2020-07-20 17:45:15	kensanata	caranatar: Hah. I guess I mean: does anybody here play? Which one?
2020-07-20 17:45:35	caranatar	tbf, i haven't in years so yknow
2020-07-20 17:45:36	kensanata	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/date.html
2020-07-20 17:45:44	caranatar	i used to play a lot of carrion fields
2020-07-20 17:45:54	kensanata	caranatar: I checked my blog and remembered giving them a try in 2018 and 2009.
2020-07-20 17:46:08	kensanata	I used to play a lot of Elendor.
2020-07-20 17:46:25	kensanata	Back around the Y2K bug. :D
2020-07-20 17:46:53	kensanata	kevinsan: Ah, a converter from RSS to Gemini.
2020-07-20 17:47:35	kensanata	You'd need a HTML to Gemtext converter, too.
2020-07-20 17:47:47	omni	kevinsan: the list url kensanata gave is also at gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-07-20 17:48:31	omni	I wish https://gemini.circumlunar.space was more up to date with gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-07-20 17:49:14	kensanata	Writing a RSS to Gemtext converter for arbitrary feeds sounds interesting... but I don't think I'm going to do it because I don't see myself actually using it.
2020-07-20 17:49:24	Sario	I thought soldierpunk was servering both from the same source files
2020-07-20 17:54:22	omni	doesn't look like it
2020-07-20 18:06:11		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-07-20 19:59:13	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 20:09:13	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 20:15:41		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-20 20:17:31	lukee	kevinsan: not sure if you are around, but I really like the html2text examples you converted
2020-07-20 20:18:27	lukee	i've been playing with the Go port of the same "readability" library - to try to make something portable
2020-07-20 20:18:44	lukee	in the sense of being cross-platform
2020-07-20 20:33:42	kevinsan	hi lukee, yes the library does a great job of converting. I think that html2text could be modified to output even better results, but needs more Yacc knowledge than I currently have.
2020-07-20 20:35:07	kevinsan	I am slightly reticent about pushing a tool that encourages verbatim copying of web content - not so much ethical issues, more about encouraging original Gemini content.
2020-07-20 20:36:28	kevinsan	however there are lots of pages that do add value to Gemini content (Vim cheat-sheet, for example)
2020-07-20 20:37:20	lukee	I hear where you are coming from.
2020-07-20 20:37:54	lukee	On the other hand it is a luxury to spend more time in a clean content environment away from the distractions and cruft of the web
2020-07-20 20:39:16	kevinsan	exactly. it surprised me how much of a difference it makes.
2020-07-20 20:39:40	lukee	my thinking is often one wishes to read the content of a page linked from gemini - often thoughtful content mostly content focussed, without necessarily breaking out a full web browser session
2020-07-20 20:41:21	lukee	but then probably if you wanted to explore ongoing content from that linked web page, you probably need a webbrowser at that stage
2020-07-20 20:43:03	lukee	so there is a set of documents at the border between gemini:// and https:// that are the candidates for sensible simplification
2020-07-20 20:43:18	kevinsan	Yes, readability leaves pages very much in the spirit of Gemini & Gopher. The fact that I bothered to convert a page means, by proxy, the links are probably worth investing in too.
2020-07-20 20:44:06	lukee	it is funny that the gemini spec itself travels cleanly into html and back again into gemtext with no loss of content!
2020-07-20 20:44:17	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 20:45:02	kevinsan	That reminds me, I need to check an anomaly on that page...
2020-07-20 20:49:21	kevinsan	it wasn't a conversion anomaly - there's a mistake in the page (<pre> tag inline at line 259 of the html file)
2020-07-20 20:53:11	lukee	is it a mistake? I read that as a short, but meaningful preformatted text region. It is a quote of a bit of code - namely the "h" element type
2020-07-20 20:53:46	lukee	probably it would be nicer as <code>h</code> but there is no such element in gemtext (which is I assume the source)
2020-07-20 20:54:46	lukee	i suppose you shouldnt really have a <pre> inside a <p>, strictly speaking it should close the <p> before opening the <pre>
2020-07-20 20:54:48	kevinsan	i assumed it was meant to be inline. that makes sense now.
2020-07-20 20:55:17	lukee	it is a bit opaque and does look a bit funny though I agree
2020-07-20 20:56:33	lukee	on a slightly different note I did a couple of small changes to GemiNaut last night
2020-07-20 20:56:52	kevinsan	I'd be glad to test them if you need
2020-07-20 20:56:54	lukee	There is an update to Terminal.css to make the links and bullets prettier - with a hanging indent
2020-07-20 20:57:13	lukee	I uploaded the CSS here if you want to try it: https://pastebin.com/9jbv25Rw
2020-07-20 20:57:33	lukee	just use the content to replace Terminal.css in the GMIConverters/themes folder
2020-07-20 20:58:27	lukee	I also added keyboard accelerators for the menus (the hot key is underlined). So for example Bookmarks is now Alt+B
2020-07-20 20:58:48	lukee	I havent got a binary release ready yet though, but that is coming soon
2020-07-20 20:59:54	kevinsan	Great - the lists look good, but I don't really recall them looking bad :)
2020-07-20 21:00:26	lukee	its just a small typographical thing, but before they just wrapped all the way back to the left margin
2020-07-20 21:00:33	kevinsan	one issue I've had is when updating, I have to manually copy my configuration to the new directory. Is there a better way to do this?
2020-07-20 21:01:15	lukee	when you say your configuration - what do you mean by that?
2020-07-20 21:01:42	lukee	you have some custom themes or tweaks?
2020-07-20 21:02:02	kevinsan	So, Windows creates a directory that's specific to the exe in AppData\something. This holds all my bookmarks and homepage.
2020-07-20 21:02:47	kevinsan	I've updated Geminaut twice, I think, and both times I had to locate this directory, figure out the new one, and copy the config files from old to new.
2020-07-20 21:03:34	kevinsan	It's been years since I did any Win32 dev, so I'm not up on the best way to describe this (the fact that I refer to Win32 will give you an idea!)
2020-07-20 21:04:12	lukee	Ok I'm with you now. Yes this is the user profile - I think its automatically created by the .Net libraries as a more robust altenative to the registry
2020-07-20 21:04:56	kevinsan	Yes, it's in C:\Users\Kevin\AppData\Local\GemiNaut\GemiNaut.exe_Url_vbmrbwo0gb24izvvwojoq0w2xpmy4zbj
2020-07-20 21:05:27	lukee	the locations get automatically named and versioned by .NET according to some magic scheme and the app version
2020-07-20 21:06:17	lukee	Yes I do want to get it so GemiNaut will pick up your previous settings if you have them. But it doesnt do it at the moment.
2020-07-20 21:06:37	kevinsan	Perhaps there's a way to just override the auto-generated directory name?
2020-07-20 21:07:12	kevinsan	in any case, it's not an issue, just a minor annoyance.
2020-07-20 21:07:19	lukee	there probably is
2020-07-20 21:08:11	lukee	the technical problem is that as the app evolves the user settings might have a different structure, so they are not automatically guaranteed to be compatible with later versions
2020-07-20 21:08:37		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-20 21:08:51	lukee	so really they previous config has to be loaded, parsed, reinterpreted rather than just copied over (although that will usually work)
2020-07-20 21:10:27	lukee	Its mainly the bookmarks I think that is the most valuable content
2020-07-20 21:10:51	lukee	I'll add it to my todo list :)
2020-07-20 21:21:41	lukee	huh - it seems .NET has a method to "upgrade" the settings from a previous version - so it could be quite simple: Properties.Settings.Default.Upgrade()
2020-07-20 21:26:31		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-20 21:26:53	kevinsan	that's handy. presumably it will handle version jumps too?
2020-07-20 21:33:06		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-20 22:25:34	login	presumably
2020-07-20 22:43:06		seisatsu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-20 23:21:19	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 23:35:49	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-20 23:39:57	luna	i wrote a go program a few days back to that shows neofetch on a gemini page
2020-07-20 23:40:04	luna	not sure if it's cursed or brilliant
2020-07-20 23:50:14		luna has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-21 01:11:31	▬▬▶	Shufei has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 02:09:04		Shufei has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-21 02:22:52	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 02:42:44		easeout has left #gemini
2020-07-21 02:48:55	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 03:30:26	kayw	ooo
2020-07-21 03:30:30	kayw	that's cool
2020-07-21 03:31:46	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 03:33:18	luna	go's exec package sure can do wonders
2020-07-21 03:33:35		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-21 05:06:21	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 08:04:10	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 08:09:34		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-21 08:48:13		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-21 08:51:15	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 08:51:16	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-07-21 09:02:20		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-21 10:28:40	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 10:57:27	kensanata	For a second, I wondered whether there was a gemini2pdf somewhere...
2020-07-21 10:57:56	kensanata	Then I remembered that any markdown to PDF would probably also do it, except for the links.
2020-07-21 11:08:31	omni	I guess Pandoc dos not yet know of .gmi =)
2020-07-21 11:16:23	omni	I really like kristall but I'm so used to not having to point and click even when surfing the web, thanks to qutebrowser
2020-07-21 11:18:18	omni	I have no idea how much work it is to implement vim-like keybindings in a project like kristall, since I'm not a developer, so I'm hesitant to asking for such features
2020-07-21 11:19:39	omni	but perhaps it wouldn't hurt, I should probably create an issue or two later and I'm fine with them having low to no priority
2020-07-21 11:21:28	omni	but I also began thinking, what about a browser engine for gemini? (like WebKit, Blink, Gecko etc)
2020-07-21 11:31:15	kevinsan	kensanata, if you convert gemini to HTML, then omni's suggestion of pandoc should work, including the links.
2020-07-21 11:54:09	kensanata	omni: the Gemini app for iOS in testing is basically a Firefox without the HTML rendering, I think?
2020-07-21 12:15:03	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 12:59:28		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-21 12:59:51	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 14:32:42		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-21 14:55:51	omni	kensanata: what app is that? couldn't find it
2020-07-21 14:57:12	kensanata	It's in Testflight.
2020-07-21 14:57:35	Sario528	If you need a tester, I have a spare iphone
2020-07-21 14:57:53	kensanata	It's by Petr Vernigorov
2020-07-21 14:58:12	kensanata	He's on the mailing list and surely happy to hand out invites.
2020-07-21 14:58:31	kensanata	Look for Petr or Pitr.
2020-07-21 14:58:49	kensanata	Description: "Everything should be working."
2020-07-21 14:58:51	kensanata	I love it.
2020-07-21 15:00:01	wgreenhouse	kensanata: so it's [ab]using the iOS safari/webkit to be a gemini client? :D
2020-07-21 15:00:49	kensanata	He had some sort of post about Firefox, but you know how it is inside the golden cage.
2020-07-21 15:00:54	kensanata	It's Apples all the way down.
2020-07-21 15:01:04	wgreenhouse	right. firefox isn't firefox on an iOS device.
2020-07-21 15:02:20	Sario528	apple mandates that all apps on the appstore use safari/webkit as the base for their browser.
2020-07-21 15:02:26	wgreenhouse	right
2020-07-21 15:02:40	Sario528	Even google chrome is actually safari on ios
2020-07-21 15:03:03	wgreenhouse	which is sort of a funny reversal of the family tree
2020-07-21 15:03:10	Sario528	One of the reasons I don't care for ios
2020-07-21 15:03:14	wgreenhouse	(blink/chrome is a descendant of khtml/webkit)
2020-07-21 15:03:49	wgreenhouse	gecko/firefox being safari on ios is weirder, since that's a totally unrelated tree of development
2020-07-21 15:06:01	kensanata	I mean, the nice part about this strategy is that there's stars and bookmarks and history and all of that.
2020-07-21 15:06:28		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-21 15:07:52	Sario528	I wonder if Apple would accept a gemini browser that didn't use safari.
2020-07-21 15:07:57	wgreenhouse	kensanata: yeah--sounds pretty sweet for making it look and feel like a "real" iOS app
2020-07-21 15:08:22	kensanata	Sario528: I wonder whether it will allow an app with that name...
2020-07-21 15:09:33	wgreenhouse	an app mentioning the word browser, you mean?
2020-07-21 15:11:17	kensanata	No, Gemini
2020-07-21 15:11:27	kensanata	Last time I googled for Gemini app there was all sorts.
2020-07-21 15:11:48	kensanata	Gemini Storage Cleaner
2020-07-21 15:11:56	kensanata	Gemini: Buy Bitcoin
2020-07-21 15:12:02	kensanata	Gemini Rue
2020-07-21 15:12:15	kensanata	Gemini Strike: ...
2020-07-21 15:12:16	wgreenhouse	yeah, there's some shitcoin called gemini, unfortunately
2020-07-21 15:12:21	wgreenhouse	🤣
2020-07-21 15:12:27	Sario	eew
2020-07-21 15:12:28	kensanata	Hm, I guess the list shows that anything goes.
2020-07-21 15:12:31	wgreenhouse	a lot of that kind of stuff in android stores too
2020-07-21 15:12:44	kensanata	And that's not counting all the horoscope apps/
2020-07-21 15:12:52	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 15:13:19	kensanata	Steve Jobs: "It's all about curation!" People: "Hell YEAH!" Steve Jobs: "Hurr hurr hurr."
2020-07-21 15:32:55	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 15:45:45		mmmattyx has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		caranatar has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		audiodude has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		thombles has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		creme has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		erin has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		makeworld has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		bard has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		companion_cube has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		dctrud has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:13:30		jan has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:14:00	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:14:10	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:17:31	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:20:14	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:20:14	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:20:14	▬▬▶	audiodude has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:20:14	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:20:14	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:22:14		audiodude has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:22:14		thombles has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:22:14		bard has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:22:14		companion_cube has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:22:14		dctrud has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:24:15	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:24:15	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:24:15	▬▬▶	audiodude has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:24:15	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:24:15	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:26:14		audiodude has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:26:14		thombles has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:26:14		bard has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:26:14		companion_cube has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:26:14		dctrud has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:30:20	natpen	GUS just got a new cert, fyi, for anyone with clients that pay attention to that sort of thing :) the new one is valid for 5 years, and about 1/7 the size of the previous one!
2020-07-21 18:44:20	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:44:20	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:46:19		companion_cube has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:46:19		dctrud has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 18:53:27	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 18:58:11	CommunistWolf	how do EC and RSA keys compare, computationally? is verification about as cheap for both?
2020-07-21 19:00:17		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-21 19:00:24	▬▬▶	audiodude has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 19:00:24	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 19:00:24	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 19:02:24		audiodude has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 19:02:24		companion_cube has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 19:02:24		dctrud has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-07-21 19:14:25	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 19:16:28	natpen	I'm not sure! I'm not a crypto expert, I just know everyone has been talking a lot about how big full letsencrypt cert chains are compared to a small, self-signed cert.
2020-07-21 19:20:00	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 19:24:58	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 19:25:50	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 19:30:47	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 19:44:19	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 20:54:25		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-21 21:22:51	CommunistWolf	Mm, i find it hard to care about a few bytes ^^
2020-07-21 21:24:57	CommunistWolf	http://nicj.net/files/performance_comparison_of_elliptic_curve_and_rsa_digital_signatures.pdf
2020-07-21 21:26:54	CommunistWolf	Significantly slower verification in ecdsa
2020-07-21 21:27:10	CommunistWolf	Dunno about ed25519, but, worth keeping in mind
2020-07-21 21:32:54	kevinsan	wow, signature verification - RSA 0.01s, ECC 0.86s. Nearly one second to verify a signature.
2020-07-21 21:37:01	CommunistWolf	I assume it's a lot faster today, but worth measuring
2020-07-21 21:38:13	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 21:48:48		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-21 21:50:04		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-21 22:09:43	omni	that counters what I've been led to believe, but I'm certainly not a cryptographer either
2020-07-21 22:10:48	omni	how about testing with openssl speed(1)?
2020-07-21 22:22:07	omni	many seem to advocate ecc over rsa for performance, but perhaps that is server-side and  without client certificates?
2020-07-21 22:22:37		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-21 22:23:02	omni	I'm too tired to make anything out of this https://bench.cr.yp.to/results-sign.html
2020-07-21 22:23:26	omni	but cr.yp.to should generally be a good resource
2020-07-21 22:25:09	omni	found and skimmed Post-Quantum TLS on Embedded Systems, but still tired and no cryptographer, https://eprint.iacr.org/2020/308.pdf
2020-07-21 22:31:14		gbmor has quit (quit: reboop the box)
2020-07-21 22:32:05	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 22:32:55	omni	CommunistWolf: https://www.websecurity.digicert.com/content/dam/websitesecurity/digitalassets/desktop/pdfs/whitepaper/Elliptic_Curve_Cryptography_ECC_WP_en_us.pdf
2020-07-21 22:47:29	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 22:54:18		nikita has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-21 22:54:29	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 22:54:30	kevinsan	omni, that Symantec paper kind of backs up the origin one that CommunistWolf posted. ECC is 20 times slower on verify.
2020-07-21 22:55:53	kevinsan	I'm a bit disappointed that they weren't more specific about the hardware specs, because while relative numbers are useful, it's the absolute values that might allow estimates on specific hardware.
2020-07-21 22:57:49	CommunistWolf	for specific hardware, you're always going to have to bench it yourself
2020-07-21 23:13:31	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-21 23:14:36		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-21 23:15:31	luna	got manjaro kde up and running
2020-07-21 23:15:41	luna	kristall works pretty well, i'm impressed
2020-07-21 23:19:33	omni	kevinsan: I would like to see comparisons of larger keys for each
2020-07-21 23:20:03	djph	keys for whatnow?
2020-07-21 23:25:52	kevinsan	the original paper suggests that ECC verify time grows linearly with key size, by 571 bits it was taking 4.53s to verify on the 2GHz P4 vs 0.03s for RSA
2020-07-21 23:34:17	kevinsan	this paper https://www.shiftleft.org/papers/fff/fff.pdf makes interesting reading - e.g. it mentions the CPU features and pre-calculation techniques that can improve performance.
2020-07-21 23:47:41	kevinsan	djph, it seems client certificates using ECC keys will be slower to verify than those using RSA. it's of little practical concern, but kinda interesting.
2020-07-21 23:48:06	djph	sounds about right - elliptic-curve is "hard(tm)"
2020-07-22 00:52:29	kevinsan	alex, I updated your wiki. took me a whole evening.
2020-07-22 01:05:04	▬▬▶	Shufei has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 01:11:23		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-22 02:08:19		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-22 02:54:48	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 02:55:21		easeout has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-22 03:08:39	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 03:17:29	▬▬▶	CRISPR has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 05:28:41	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 05:31:20	kensanata	🌏🚀🚀
2020-07-22 05:42:07		Shufei has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-22 06:25:43	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 06:25:43		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-22 06:52:10	kensanata	Wohoo, recovered some files from backup.
2020-07-22 07:01:56		CRISPR has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-22 07:28:42	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 07:43:09		Nalaph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-22 07:44:24	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 07:51:05	▬▬▶	funkpower has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 08:44:07		brainfunnel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-22 08:47:00	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 09:24:44	kevinsan	kensanata, that sed interface thing is quite interesting.
2020-07-22 09:26:56	kensanata	It is! If only I felt better about ed. :)
2020-07-22 09:28:19	kevinsan	ha, yes i get you. on the other hand, that kind of tool evolved out of a limited environment.
2020-07-22 09:28:41	kevinsan	i'm writing you a bash script for the wiki.
2020-07-22 09:28:57	kensanata	kevinsan: What is it going to do?
2020-07-22 09:30:30	kevinsan	accept a wiki URL, fetch its raw, pause (while you go edit it), push raw to the equivalent titan URL when done.
2020-07-22 09:31:01	kevinsan	leaving me to Vim the content while it's paused. something like that anyway.
2020-07-22 09:31:24	kensanata	Heh.
2020-07-22 09:31:31	kensanata	Did you see the two bash functions I wrote?
2020-07-22 09:31:42	kensanata	They're not very clever, but could potentially be used.
2020-07-22 09:32:20	kensanata	https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-titan/tree/gemini.sh
2020-07-22 09:32:26	kevinsan	I saw one bash script to send titan, but it was confusing because it didn't relate at all to the previous gemini/titan commands
2020-07-22 09:32:35	kensanata	Hm.
2020-07-22 09:32:58	kensanata	If you stumble upon the confusing reference again, let me know. I'd love to fix the documentation.
2020-07-22 09:34:09	kensanata	Also, I'm not very good at bashing stuff, so I'd be happy to replace what I have with anything is easier.
2020-07-22 09:35:39	kevinsan	ok, so gemini.sh is pretty much what I was going to write. would have helped a lot.
2020-07-22 09:35:57	kensanata	So sorry I didn't tell you earlier.
2020-07-22 09:36:39	kevinsan	your bash looks fine - what kind of crazy high bar do you set for yourself??!!
2020-07-22 09:36:58	kensanata	Haha. Who's the person that wrote an entire Gemini client in bash?
2020-07-22 09:37:25	kensanata	Anyway, I mentioned the Bash code at the end of this page: gemini://transjovian.org/page/Writing
2020-07-22 09:38:03	kensanata	You get there via "How to use the wiki" → "Writing a page on the wiki" but perhaps there should be a more prominent place?
2020-07-22 09:38:44	kensanata	Also I put them at the end of that page because I think I'm not going to maintain them. But if there's a Bash enthusiast, I'd love to link to something better. Maybe with vim integration. :)
2020-07-22 09:39:25	kevinsan	Just link to bash.sh, with a usage comment at the top.
2020-07-22 10:00:01	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 10:09:09	kensanata	If anybody wants to see what it looks like in Emacs, here's a blog post with a video: https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-06-11_Demonstrating_Gemini_Wiki
2020-07-22 10:09:31	kensanata	I guess if your Gemini client knows how to play video...
2020-07-22 10:09:46	kensanata	gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/2020-06-11_Demonstrating_Gemini_Wiki
2020-07-22 10:10:10	kensanata	Emacs doesn't... it downloads the file and then tells me the MIME type isn't supported. Sad!
2020-07-22 10:12:25	kensanata	Time to look for lunch...
2020-07-22 10:16:01	omni	https://mwl.io/nonfiction/tools#ed
2020-07-22 10:16:31	kensanata	omni: I have that book.
2020-07-22 10:17:50	omni	nice!
2020-07-22 10:19:05	kensanata	Sadly, reading a book is not the same as practicing a skill...
2020-07-22 10:41:12	omni	unfortunately, no
2020-07-22 10:44:41	omni	reminds me that I had a colleague once who had (and had read) All The Books(tm), but it didn't really show in his work
2020-07-22 10:45:07	omni	whenever we introduced a new technology he bought and read a book about it
2020-07-22 10:46:22	omni	and I thought that even if you could learn just by reading a book, the tech would change before you were through
2020-07-22 10:47:06	omni	that doesn't go for tools like ed and the likes, but a lot of the things in the modern clouded landscape
2020-07-22 10:47:58	kevinsan	it would at the speed that I read. I recently bought the Lua 5.2 Reference Manual, and I'm currently on page 4
2020-07-22 10:49:33	kevinsan	I read the original manual for 'ex', and was able to go through it in Vim - pretty much all of it is still relevant, though I think it was written in the mid 70s
2020-07-22 10:59:46	omni	ex is in the likes of ed and lua doesn't change that dramatically, right?
2020-07-22 11:01:10	omni	I meant, for some things a book may already be somewhat outdated by the time you get your hands on it
2020-07-22 11:01:14	kevinsan	yes, it's what vi what built on top of, and what Vim copied.
2020-07-22 11:02:01	omni	some less established things
2020-07-22 11:02:23	kevinsan	but I agree, a lot of tech is created for non-tech reasons - i'm starting to think corporate incentives are at odds with my brain.
2020-07-22 11:02:51	kevinsan	it just evolves for commercial gain, not technical advantage.
2020-07-22 11:03:14	kevinsan	(though commercial gain might require technical advantage, it's not the driver)
2020-07-22 11:03:19	omni	otoh this was a rh/centos guy so he was probably used to things staying at their versions for many years
2020-07-22 11:04:29	kevinsan	thing is though, the hammer in my toolbox looks just like my dad's
2020-07-22 11:07:16	kevinsan	so much of the original stuff written 'emerged' from the CPU architecture, and that hasn't changed at all. I'm starting to see it as profoundly relevant
2020-07-22 11:07:33	kevinsan	rather than my prevailing view of it being a bit archaic.
2020-07-22 11:19:11	kensanata	There's also an age aspect. I've seen so many technologies come and go, I no longer believe in them. So I was late to git, I don't believe in the cloud, new programming languages, and so on. There's a tipping point, perhaps, where one's doubts start to outgrow progress.
2020-07-22 11:19:29	kensanata	And then you're old and think: those editors from the seventies and eighties, they're not so bad!
2020-07-22 11:19:55	tadzik	heh, it's a bit like with TV series
2020-07-22 11:20:12	tadzik	wait 3-6 months and nobody calls them "the best one ever" anymore
2020-07-22 11:20:38	tadzik	wait a few years, see if it's still top rated, then maybe take a look
2020-07-22 11:20:43	tadzik	same with tech :)
2020-07-22 11:20:44	kevinsan	ironically, it's the explosion of new tech that's pushed me to Vim - I can get good at one environment, rather than mediocre with 10
2020-07-22 11:22:03	kensanata	At work, we're slowly starting the move from Eclipse to IntelliJ (we all use Java)
2020-07-22 11:22:11	kensanata	and Emacs is my IRC client.
2020-07-22 11:22:52	kevinsan	weird, because I can't imagine IntelliJ really has *that* much to offer as a productivity gain. Sales must have offered a good kickback
2020-07-22 11:23:35	kensanata	I don't think so. My thinking is that the push was driven by some people in the company that really don't like the Eclipse Javascript support.
2020-07-22 11:23:50	kevinsan	tadzik, exactly - why waste time just to be first see something. it's not like the show's going to deteriorate over time.
2020-07-22 11:24:50	tadzik	kevinsan: there is a potential upside of being the first to the party and thus automatically becoming a significant community figure :)
2020-07-22 11:25:42	tadzik	I've bootstraped my professional career off of being a major contributor to Perl 6 at that time. Not because I was very good at it – there just weren't too many others :P
2020-07-22 11:25:56	kevinsan	i could never become a significant community figure, unless notorious counts as significant
2020-07-22 11:26:10	kensanata	tadzik: Nice!
2020-07-22 11:26:21	kevinsan	i have an almost pathalogical urge to say what I think!
2020-07-22 11:26:26	tadzik	so like kensanata says: there is an age aspect to it
2020-07-22 11:26:41	tadzik	or s/age/experience/, perhaps
2020-07-22 11:27:06	kensanata	One hopes they correlate... at least the hope correlates with age‽
2020-07-22 11:28:08	tadzik	heh, hopes, yes ;) You know this thing where someone has 10 years of experience with something, but actually ten times 1 year, over and over? ;)
2020-07-22 11:28:52	tadzik	not all practice makes perfect, annoyingly
2020-07-22 11:29:07	tadzik	eh, grumpiness for sure comes with age :(
2020-07-22 11:29:40	kevinsan	doesn't grumpiness come with contentment?
2020-07-22 11:30:57	kensanata	Nah, I can tell you: no true. Based on experience.
2020-07-22 11:32:23	kevinsan	i mean, if i'm struggling financially, i'll moan about money. valid. if my partner cheats on me, i'll moan about my woes. valid. if i'm feeling contented, i'll moan about spaces after a '#' character.
2020-07-22 11:32:29	kevinsan	:)
2020-07-22 11:33:45	kevinsan	i couldn't resist that little joke (pathological, see?), but the point is that the more content you are, the more focused you become on minutae
2020-07-22 11:34:45	tadzik	er, you sure you meant "more" twice there?
2020-07-22 11:35:41	kevinsan	no, because the essence of grumpiness is complaining about minutae
2020-07-22 11:36:42	kevinsan	s/no,/yes, i am/
2020-07-22 11:36:43	tadzik	I'm not sure I follow. If I am content (as in: generally happy), I'm less inclined to moan about minor things, I think. Or maybe more, since I no longer having anything major to moan about?
2020-07-22 11:37:32	⚡	kensanata meta moans
2020-07-22 11:38:04	kevinsan	the latter, because other things *become* important. that's the way i see it, anyway. happiness grants you license to moan.
2020-07-22 11:38:14	kevinsan	or something like that anyway
2020-07-22 11:38:54	kevinsan	anyway, i'm off to chase some birds off my lawn. little beggars scratching up my grass.
2020-07-22 11:41:11	tadzik	*nod nod*
2020-07-22 12:05:55		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-22 12:40:21	omni	I didn't know of "contentment" before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contentment
2020-07-22 12:55:50		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-22 12:56:47	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 13:00:43	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 13:02:15	~tiwesdaeg	xq: where do you keep those binary versions of kristall?
2020-07-22 13:07:27	@xq	on my server
2020-07-22 13:07:33	@xq	and there's only one nightly :D
2020-07-22 13:07:40	@xq	because i didn't do anything since then :D
2020-07-22 13:12:56	~tiwesdaeg	in my ever fun exciting os rotation, this computer is using openbsd 6.7
2020-07-22 13:13:07	~tiwesdaeg	I can not find the qmake package anywhere
2020-07-22 13:13:19	~tiwesdaeg	I was just going to see if you had an openbsd binary
2020-07-22 13:14:14	@xq	:D
2020-07-22 13:14:21	@xq	nah, i only have Appimage (linux) and a windows build
2020-07-22 13:14:31	~tiwesdaeg	hrmm
2020-07-22 13:14:55	~tiwesdaeg	these package maintainers, always messing with stuff
2020-07-22 13:25:41	~tiwesdaeg	I figured it out, it's hiding in /usr/local/lib/qt5/bin/
2020-07-22 13:43:25	~tiwesdaeg	xq: I got it to build
2020-07-22 13:43:35	~tiwesdaeg	the makefile isn't openbsd make friendly
2020-07-22 14:07:02	@xq	i happily accept pull requests making the makefile nicer for all
2020-07-22 14:17:20	~tiwesdaeg	I'm make ignorant ;P
2020-07-22 14:17:29	~tiwesdaeg	I'll see if I can figure out why it is sad
2020-07-22 14:17:41	~tiwesdaeg	I ended up running gmake, which works to a point
2020-07-22 14:17:46	~tiwesdaeg	but the build fails
2020-07-22 14:18:02	~tiwesdaeg	then I rane make in the build folder and it finished
2020-07-22 14:18:12	~tiwesdaeg	s/rane/ran
2020-07-22 14:49:37	coleman	Is anyone aware of a gemini response parser implemented as a standalone rust crate?
2020-07-22 14:50:35	coleman	Something that could take a tcp response stream and yield a Vector of types: H1, link, text, rawtext
2020-07-22 14:50:53	coleman	and headers too
2020-07-22 15:01:17	kensanata	dctrud: I just saw the computer naming question again. I use bumblee genus names. So right now I'm working on melanobombus, my wife has megalobombus, the VM I'm renting is sibirocobombus, and I've had various others in the past: alpinobombus, orientalibombus... gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/NamingScheme
2020-07-22 15:34:21		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-22 15:34:51		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-22 15:39:10	ℹ 	230AAETPM is now known as paper_
2020-07-22 15:40:29	dkibi	sorry I didn't follow all the discussion
2020-07-22 15:40:41	dkibi	kevinsan: did you ask about the #?
2020-07-22 16:09:07	kevinsan	dkibi, no I was making a silly joke re: the '#' referred to the recent mailing list topic (though I actually have no opinion on the subject)
2020-07-22 16:16:58	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 17:02:11	kevinsan	omni, CommunistWolf: in case you're interested, i did some (crude) time measurements of ECC vs RSA verification, and there's no practical difference (gemini://gemini.susa.net/ecc_vs_rsa_verify.gmi)
2020-07-22 17:14:14	dkibi	kevinsan: yeah I was also referencing the ml topic (I wanted to bring something up that a different character could be choosen to mark the tag))
2020-07-22 17:43:22	omni	kevinsan: yesm but I'm interested in larger keysm
2020-07-22 17:44:05	omni	like rsa:4096 vs secp521r1
2020-07-22 17:51:29	login	why secp521r1?
2020-07-22 17:51:34	login	also, what does r1 stand for here?
2020-07-22 17:51:41	login	is it over a binary field or restricted field?
2020-07-22 17:53:58		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-22 18:18:25	kevinsan	omni, yes that curve is slower - 4ms average per verify vs 2.8ms for RSA
2020-07-22 18:37:20	login	what about ed448
2020-07-22 18:37:23	login	Goldilocks curve
2020-07-22 18:37:37	login	compared to rsa-4096, say
2020-07-22 19:08:20		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-22 19:29:40	kevinsan	login, i don't have a recent enough openssl to try with ed448 or ed25519
2020-07-22 19:29:57	login	ah, i see
2020-07-22 19:30:02	login	you should try it with libressl then
2020-07-22 19:30:14	login	or boringssl
2020-07-22 19:30:18	login	google tink maybe?
2020-07-22 20:04:42		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-22 20:06:14	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 20:09:32	omni	it was only an example
2020-07-22 20:11:51	login	ah
2020-07-22 20:48:42	▬▬▶	omni_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 20:49:20	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 20:49:47		omni has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-22 20:53:39	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-22 20:57:30		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-22 21:04:26		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-22 21:30:11	CommunistWolf	kevinsan: good to know!
2020-07-22 21:52:15	login	CommunistWolf: would you like to live in a commune?
2020-07-22 23:00:44	omni_	https://blog.cr.yp.to/20140323-ecdsa.html
2020-07-22 23:18:06	kevinsan	omni_, great find, thanks! thats a gem of a document.
2020-07-22 23:29:15	ℹ 	funkpower is now known as notsure
2020-07-22 23:38:22	makeworld	I'm thinking about adding a cache for permanent redirects in Amfora
2020-07-22 23:38:52	makeworld	I was thinking it was just going to be for redirects that add a slash, but why not cache all permanent ones?
2020-07-22 23:39:14	makeworld	Does anyone have an opinion? I don't see this breaking anything
2020-07-22 23:48:35	kevinsan	makeworld, would the cache expire? could caching be disabled? if /~kevin belongs to KevinA who moves on leaving a permanent redirect, would me, KevinS, the new inhabitant of /~kevin be forever ignored in favour of this redirect?
2020-07-22 23:48:59	makeworld	It's just for the browser session, so no
2020-07-23 00:48:30		krjst has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 00:48:53	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 01:43:48	▬▬▶	gambit has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 02:53:05		gambit has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-23 03:18:36		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 04:03:49		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 05:00:00	login	makeworld: ctrl-shift-r
2020-07-23 07:02:28	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 07:49:25	CommunistWolf	login: i'd be fine with it, mrs CommunistWolf  less so
2020-07-23 07:59:12	login	what if the commune was only of people not sexually attracted to each other?
2020-07-23 08:00:37		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-23 09:13:49	omni_	xq: kristall, for http to https redirects I get a Y/N dialogue with just a question mark (at least on www.redox-os.org)
2020-07-23 09:14:48	@xq	interesting that it works on redox :D
2020-07-23 10:32:51	ℹ 	omni_ is now known as omni
2020-07-23 11:23:54	CommunistWolf	login: same
2020-07-23 11:24:00	CommunistWolf	not really gemini-related though
2020-07-23 11:34:36	login	no
2020-07-23 12:08:16	CommunistWolf	anyone aware of any efforts to make hugo output .gmi files in addition to html ?
2020-07-23 12:47:03	siina	None beyond my little experiments.
2020-07-23 12:57:59	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 12:58:33	kensanata	I feel torn... Do I want to improve Emacs to handle color sequences other than the basic eight foreground and background colours?
2020-07-23 13:22:16	kensanata	Ohhhh, somebody from SDF already did this! https://github.com/atomontage/xterm-color
2020-07-23 14:11:43	login	and yet it has not been taken into emacs main
2020-07-23 14:51:44	kensanata	I talked to the author and they think the situation will get resolved, eventually.
2020-07-23 15:53:44	kensanata	I still think it's awesome and weird that we can browser the elpher git repo via gopher: hilarious
2020-07-23 15:54:02	kensanata	gopher://thelambdalab.xyz/1/scripts/browse-git.scm%7Celpher.git
2020-07-23 15:54:13	kensanata	Makes me chuckle every time.
2020-07-23 15:58:13		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-23 16:21:45	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 16:30:39		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 18:28:58	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 18:46:37	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 18:47:32	dctrud	howdy gemini-folk
2020-07-23 18:51:23	Sario	Hello
2020-07-23 18:59:56		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 19:13:03	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 19:30:10	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 19:31:05	caranatar	hi dctrud
2020-07-23 19:35:23		paper has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 19:37:38		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 19:37:48	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 19:37:54		paper has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 19:37:56	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 19:41:46	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 19:44:07		paper has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 19:45:26	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 19:45:41	▬▬▶	papes has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 19:45:50		paper_ has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-23 19:46:34	ℹ 	papes is now known as paper_
2020-07-23 20:05:39	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 20:15:52	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 20:20:46	natpen	Hi fellow Geminauts! GUS backlinks just got a small enhancement - they now distinguish between "cross-capsule" links to pages and "internal" links to pages. As usual, if you notice any cases where it misbehaves, I would love your feedback!
2020-07-23 20:21:24	Sario	natpen: Cool!
2020-07-23 20:27:23	dctrud	awesome - that's nice to find replies
2020-07-23 20:30:18	Sario	Also, I like the duck if there's no backlinks
2020-07-23 20:32:06	natpen	Sario: haha, glad you like the duck ^.^ that's actually the first non-purely-informational thing I've added to GUS, and it made me happier than I thought it would :P
2020-07-23 20:35:07	natpen	dctrud: that was my hope! This was also the last piece of the puzzle I needed implemented before completing the next major feature, which I think will be even better for finding replies
2020-07-23 20:35:12	Sario	Gemini seems like a good place for random ducks, and other such things
2020-07-23 20:40:23	dctrud	I feel bad for missing some of the replies to my computer naming post. Several people seemed to answer that one.
2020-07-23 20:40:42	natpen	It was a Geminispace hit!
2020-07-23 20:40:46	dctrud	including my parents (but by telephone)
2020-07-23 20:41:07	dctrud	They are diligently using the vulpes.one proxy to keep tabs on me heh
2020-07-23 20:54:47	login	is that your proxy?
2020-07-23 20:55:40	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 20:55:53	dctrud	nope I haven't made anything so useful
2020-07-23 20:57:23	hannu	IMHO it's good to send email to the author if you reply
2020-07-23 20:57:52	hannu	you get nice discussions with some people that way as a bonus <3
2020-07-23 20:59:03	dctrud	I did say hello to a couple of people I replied to on mastodon. Maybe I should make my email more obvious for anyone who replies to me
2020-07-23 21:03:09	Sario	natpen: I think I found a bug. The listing for my page (gemini.ctrl-c.club/~sario528) show a backlink to gemini.ctrl-c.club as cross-capsule instead of internal
2020-07-23 21:37:05	natpen	Sario: I was actually conflicted about that, but it was intentional. For a given pubnix, I thought it kinda made sense to consider gemini://foo.bar and gemini://foo.bar/~a and gemini://foo.bar/~b as all different capsules, since they're all _likely_ administered and authored by different humans.
2020-07-23 21:37:52	Sario528	That makes sense
2020-07-23 22:27:42	kensanata	natpen: At this rate you'll soon be adding a FAQ.
2020-07-23 22:28:14	kensanata	hannu, dctrud: Yeah. Strangely enough I haven't written as much email as now that I've gotten into Gemini.
2020-07-23 22:39:05		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-23 23:00:13		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-23 23:51:56	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-07-23 23:52:54	omni	julienxx_: hi, how are the lobste.rs and tilde.news gemini mirrors produced?
2020-07-23 23:59:28	▬▬▶	doesntgolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 00:34:03	omni	gemini://typed-hole.org/lobsters/zdi2ac.txt
2020-07-24 01:02:05	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/makeworld.gq/gus-graph/graph.png?raw=1
2020-07-24 01:02:16	makeworld	A whole bunch of pages are gone o.O
2020-07-24 01:02:34	makeworld	Maybe Alex's wikis are/were down
2020-07-24 01:29:48		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 01:50:57	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 01:59:38		doesntgolf has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-24 02:07:46	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 02:22:52		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-24 02:32:36		easeout has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-24 02:34:12	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 05:07:23		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-24 05:17:01		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 05:41:59	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 07:44:32	kensanata	I added an empty line to a file using just ed. So proud.
2020-07-24 09:09:56	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 09:47:37	ℹ 	julienxx_ is now known as julienxx
2020-07-24 09:47:37	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-07-24 09:49:42	@julienxx	omni: it a small tool I created see https://github.com/julienXX/gophsters. There is a branch for every flavor. Basically it ran with a cron job, fetches the content via the JSON API and generates gopher/gemini pages.
2020-07-24 09:58:18	login	so like polling?
2020-07-24 10:02:36	@julienxx	exactly
2020-07-24 10:17:51	@tomasino	Nice!
2020-07-24 11:07:45	omni	julienxx: kewl, thanks!
2020-07-24 11:18:23	natpen	makeworld: yes, Gemini page count on your graph is significantly down because of some kensanata domain and port shuffling. I built an interim GUS index excluding those capsules, but will probably start crawling the reincarnated versions today :)
2020-07-24 11:22:20	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 11:23:32	natpen	And it still cracks me up that kensanata's content represents 66% of Geminispace by page count! ^.^
2020-07-24 11:43:20	djph	she's bored?
2020-07-24 11:43:36	djph	I have 3 whole pages :/
2020-07-24 11:44:21	djph	I need more pages. Trouble is, I'm boring and don't know what to write about :(
2020-07-24 11:44:58	login	write about boredom
2020-07-24 11:45:41		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-24 11:45:46	djph	hmm
2020-07-24 11:46:05	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 11:47:00	kensanata	natpen: Hahaha
2020-07-24 11:47:33	kensanata	djph: The trick is being old, and dressing up old content as new content.
2020-07-24 11:51:43		natpen has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-24 11:51:54	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 11:52:02	login	but there is original thought too
2020-07-24 11:52:11	djph	kensanata: ha
2020-07-24 11:53:52	kensanata	Sometimes I feel like I want to write more essays.
2020-07-24 12:02:25	kensanata	Stuff I'd read in one of these magazine add-ons to newspapers. gemini://vault.transjovian.org/text/en/essay
2020-07-24 12:06:35		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 12:15:28	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 13:25:45	▬▬▶	doesntgolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 13:58:33	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 14:14:44	▬▬▶	Hajmola has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 14:15:05	Hajmola	hi
2020-07-24 14:17:01	anton	anyone know how I can enable user dirs on jetforce?
2020-07-24 14:18:37		Hajmola has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-24 14:25:03	@julienxx	anton: with symlinks maybe?
2020-07-24 14:30:27	@tomasino	i created my own and did symlinks
2020-07-24 14:30:31	@tomasino	that's the biggest drawback of jetforce
2020-07-24 14:30:54	@tomasino	it think it's why tiwesdaeg switched pink
2020-07-24 14:39:28	xj9	we use symlinks on sunshine gardens as well
2020-07-24 14:39:40	xj9	and jetforce
2020-07-24 14:52:01	▬▬▶	madogrit has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 15:40:49	~tiwesdaeg	that and cgi anywhere
2020-07-24 15:41:04	~tiwesdaeg	the vhosts are neat too
2020-07-24 15:59:32		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-24 17:00:24	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 17:41:02	anton	gemini://amcclure.org/
2020-07-24 17:41:04	anton	c:
2020-07-24 17:51:34	kensanata	Assuming you added colours to your Gemini files... Would you go 24bit colours? I'm tempted. But I also know that most people might have hand-picked the eight or sixteen basic colours because these can often be set by a theme.
2020-07-24 17:51:39	kensanata	So what is it going to be?
2020-07-24 17:53:09	lukee	I know these colours are nice for terminal clients, but it does presume a certain flavour of client will access your content
2020-07-24 17:53:22	kensanata	Yeah.
2020-07-24 17:53:50	kensanata	What's the alternative, stay black and white and ignore all the terminal features we get?
2020-07-24 17:54:00	lukee	I suppose its harmless as long as your're not encoding any semantics into the colours
2020-07-24 17:54:31	kensanata	Sure.
2020-07-24 17:54:40	lukee	or specifically that is not the only channel - which is a general point for UI design
2020-07-24 17:54:53	kensanata	Right now I have the additional pain of realizing that some clients will bork the display, making it worse.
2020-07-24 17:55:44	lukee	we could instead embed fragments of CSS in the content - a more widely supported styling markup
2020-07-24 17:56:42	lukee	I'm not serious about that I dont think, just making a point :)
2020-07-24 17:57:35	kensanata	I have some screenshots in this blog post: https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-07-23_Eight_Colours
2020-07-24 17:57:52	kensanata	The two last ones are troubling me.
2020-07-24 17:58:07	lukee	I seem to recall someone on the list saying it is risky for terminal clients to interpret ansi sequences directly?
2020-07-24 17:58:41	kensanata	Well, in theory you can filter them. I don't know what AV-98 does. I think the two Emacs packages I looked at discard all the escape sequences they can't handle.
2020-07-24 17:58:45	lukee	so do client writers have to "normalise" them  somehow?
2020-07-24 17:59:33	kensanata	In the AV-98 case the problem is that it adds line breaks to break long lines, but it doesn't discount the bytes from the escape sequences, so it gets that wrong.
2020-07-24 18:00:17	lukee	I bet it does break various text layout algorithms if you dont factor it in
2020-07-24 18:00:24	kensanata	In the Elpher with the default ansi-color library which doesn't understand 24bit colour control codes, only a few of the control codes are interpreted, the rest are discarded, resulting in it being ugly.
2020-07-24 18:00:31	kensanata	Yeah, for sure.
2020-07-24 18:01:37	lukee	Personally I think it shifts back towards the web type of design philosophy
2020-07-24 18:02:10	lukee	namely that the content author tries to control the user experience for the client, rather than simply provide the content
2020-07-24 18:02:44	kensanata	You could argue that.
2020-07-24 18:04:20	kensanata	Then again, one could argue that some sites use *foo* to mean emphasis and some clients render that. So a shared understanding was available through the culture we are embedded in.
2020-07-24 18:04:21	lukee	Besides there are other ways to avoid just a plain black and white experience
2020-07-24 18:04:41	lukee	yes but that is a common convention across platforms in email.
2020-07-24 18:05:02	lukee	Ansi sequences are commandline applications control characters
2020-07-24 18:05:26	kensanata	Thus, "the command line" or "the terminal" is rarely colour-less these days. Some of us use colours for grep, for ls, for editors, man pages, and so on. It's hard to understand why a gemini clients should be different.
2020-07-24 18:05:45	djph	lukee: I don't have a plain black and white experience.  Amber on black!
2020-07-24 18:06:13	lukee	I have no problem with terminal clients using colour, just when authors embed them in content expecting a certain interpretation
2020-07-24 18:06:29	lukee	your terminal client be can be pink on blue for all I care
2020-07-24 18:06:34	kensanata	Yeah, I guess I don't get that distinction.
2020-07-24 18:07:10	djph	kensanata: distinction of what?
2020-07-24 18:07:25	lukee	its the difference between the client UI (which may have colours for semantics etc) and content from the server
2020-07-24 18:07:50	kensanata	Colours are part of the elements we have to use for the user interface. I think lukee is trying to argue (correct me if I'm wrong) that colours as used by the client are different from colours as used in a document.
2020-07-24 18:07:59	lukee	exactly
2020-07-24 18:08:23	kensanata	Such as, htop using colours to provide a UI is cool, but the pids and process names don't determine the colours.
2020-07-24 18:08:28	lukee	after all the web makes that conflation
2020-07-24 18:08:39	kensanata	Sure. But that's not what I dislike about the web.
2020-07-24 18:09:00	djph	I believe the argument is "don't write your webpage to be purple on blue ... but don't stop the other end from doing that if they want
2020-07-24 18:10:03	lukee	for me its the fact that it is not standardised and a de facto behaviour for one particular platform. If we want to have styling as part of gemini it should be specified
2020-07-24 18:10:19	kensanata	I guess what I'm saying is that I was looking at colours in text adventures, in nethack, I had colours determined by the door programms running on bulleting boards I visited using a 2400baud modem...
2020-07-24 18:10:47	kensanata	To me, insisting that the data and the documents shouldn not come colour coded is a kind of fake retro throwback.
2020-07-24 18:11:26	kensanata	To me, there is the common understanding that things inside terminals will use the features of terminals.
2020-07-24 18:11:27	lukee	yes but the implementation is ansi-specific - so it assumes a certain type of client
2020-07-24 18:11:48	lukee	gemini clients arent just terminal clients though
2020-07-24 18:12:09	lukee	for example there are graphical clients
2020-07-24 18:12:15	lukee	and there is a text client for the blind
2020-07-24 18:12:21	kensanata	But that's the kind of thing that clients can add. I mean, Emacs doesn't handle ansi escape sequences just like that. I wrote a library to do it, and somebody else wrote an even better library to do it.
2020-07-24 18:12:24	lukee	I hope there will be others too
2020-07-24 18:12:33	kensanata	Of course.
2020-07-24 18:13:08	djph	kensanata: I think you guys are saying the same thing.
2020-07-24 18:13:13	kensanata	Just because colours can be used to convey information inaccessible to blind people doesn't mean we must avoid the use of colours, though.
2020-07-24 18:13:18	lukee	so why not embed html fragments in the content?
2020-07-24 18:13:29	djph	(1) color is good, but (2) don't hardcode it in the document per-se
2020-07-24 18:13:49	kensanata	djph: We are not saying the same thing because I disagree with point #2 :)
2020-07-24 18:14:17	djph	kensanata: so you're saying you want me to be able to tell your client that headings are red?
2020-07-24 18:14:56	kensanata	lukee: Because it's not easy to know where to step when it comes to HTML. if it were only b and i and u and tt I'd get it. But those are deprecated because of em and strong. And then there's CSS. And what about strike, ins, del, and on and on. HTML is a can of worms.
2020-07-24 18:15:23	lukee	the point is the expectation of content intepretation
2020-07-24 18:15:44	kensanata	djph: Well, in my particular case I want to colour code a bunch of numbers, specifically like here: gemini://transjovian.org/do/changes
2020-07-24 18:15:45	lukee	my point would stand for other simpler markups we could invent
2020-07-24 18:16:14	djph	kensanata: don't get me wrong, color is a good thing (if its desired), but making it an integral part of the document, rather than an integral part of the client, seems a bit limiting.
2020-07-24 18:16:32	djph	reminds me of the days of "Works best in IE" banners
2020-07-24 18:16:38	kensanata	djph: But we're serving documents. Of course the client can't know this.
2020-07-24 18:16:45	kensanata	djph: Just look at astrobotany...
2020-07-24 18:17:17	kensanata	Are you saying astrobotany should be black and white?
2020-07-24 18:17:27	lukee	it is pretty in some clients, but ugly in others that have no concept of ansi sequences or other embedded codes
2020-07-24 18:17:30	djph	kensanata: UTC by [box][box][box][box]
2020-07-24 18:17:57	lukee	because its not standard.
2020-07-24 18:18:39	lukee	BTW I would have no beef with this if the content is served with a different mime like text/x-ansi
2020-07-24 18:18:46	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 18:19:10	lukee	or even text/gemini+x-ansi to convey the semantics
2020-07-24 18:19:26	djph	kensanata: No.  I am saying that color sequences should be up to the client in _general_ terms.
2020-07-24 18:19:44	djph	kensanata: I am not saying there should be no color whatsoever.
2020-07-24 18:20:02	lukee	what about fonts?
2020-07-24 18:20:11	djph	Fonts?
2020-07-24 18:20:40	lukee	can these be specified in Ansi codes (I have no idea as I dont use a terminal client)
2020-07-24 18:20:47	djph	I don't know
2020-07-24 18:21:00	kensanata	djph: 𝔜𝔢𝔰
2020-07-24 18:21:14	kensanata	Unicode has some weird characters...
2020-07-24 18:21:22	kensanata	So it's not really a font thing...
2020-07-24 18:21:39	djph	I think they're somewhat integral to the terminal itself (e.g. everything I see is my terminal's constant-width font.  Sometimes made pretty by bold or so
2020-07-24 18:21:49	djph	kensanata: [box][box][box]
2020-07-24 18:21:54	kensanata	lukee: You can also switch to bold, italic (and in some terminals, gothic) variants.
2020-07-24 18:22:06	lukee	no comic sans then?
2020-07-24 18:22:11	kensanata	lukee: nope
2020-07-24 18:22:15	lukee	shucks
2020-07-24 18:22:25	kensanata	djph: Yeah, I'm guessing your client doesn't have the right font support.
2020-07-24 18:22:41	xj9	your client can style things however it wants
2020-07-24 18:23:10	kensanata	The first one is MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL Y or U+1D51C
2020-07-24 18:23:46	djph	kensanata: on purpose. I _primarily_ work in C locale; more so I can make sure I don't break something
2020-07-24 18:23:54	kensanata	heh
2020-07-24 18:23:56	lukee	I think unicode is great in general - but I suppose these extended characters must be a nightmare for audio or braile readers
2020-07-24 18:24:08	djph	kensanata: although I do have utf8 as default when not ssh'd into things.
2020-07-24 18:24:10	kensanata	I assume as well.
2020-07-24 18:26:50	kensanata	I just tried it using the rhapsode audio browser and it sed stuff like "letter 1 d 5 1 c"
2020-07-24 18:26:53	kensanata	Ouch!
2020-07-24 18:27:13	lukee	Do people want a styled gemini format? Maybe there is a latent desire for it?
2020-07-24 18:28:43	kensanata	lukee: Not me. I'm happy as it is. I just happen to think that many people don't see the cans of worms surrounding us: control codes in Unicode (like those that switch writing direction), and – and in this case I'd love to see more of them: colours. :D
2020-07-24 18:29:35	lukee	what is the unicode way of doing it? I know you can have femaleface+brownskin
2020-07-24 18:29:38	lukee	for example
2020-07-24 18:30:07	kensanata	Like, if you're not relying on the terminal to do most of the display, or some underlying web browser, or cairo or pango or whatever they are called, eventually you'll have to do line wrapping. Do you know how wide the Unicode characters are? Special cases like combining skin colours, flags, and all those tricky bits? That's where I have my doubts because this is tricky.
2020-07-24 18:30:14	lukee	at least then it would be using an existing standard linked to gemini
2020-07-24 18:30:48	kensanata	I once implemented the Unicode bidirectionality algorithm in Emacs Lisp because I wanted to understand how it worked. It wasn't easy.
2020-07-24 18:31:06	djph	kensanata: I don't disagree with the colors thing.  Personally though, I would rather see it be an feature of the client's display options, rather than hardcoded escape sequences
2020-07-24 18:31:49	companion_cube	djph: what kind of thing would you break by working in a unicode locale?
2020-07-24 18:31:50	lukee	gemini://gemini.conman.org/boston/2020/07/20.2
2020-07-24 18:31:59	djph	If "inline" formatting needs applied, then we have to start getting into further markup (e.g. \red{sometexthere} to set "sometexthere" to whatever color my client wants to call red).
2020-07-24 18:32:00	kensanata	https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr9/
2020-07-24 18:32:41		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-24 18:33:20	kensanata	djph: How will the client know that the four digit octal sequences I use on my list of changes to anonymise users is to be colour coded in order to get a better overview? I mean, I have to communicate this wish to the client in some form, or you're going to tell me this is not what Gemini was designed for.
2020-07-24 18:34:02	djph	companion_cube: mostly very little.  TBH, it's more a holdover from working with AIX and HPUX at a previous job, and borking things because transferring from "see it works fine on the linux box!"
2020-07-24 18:34:23	kensanata	djph: My argument is that we depend on Unicode for so much, and certainly expectation is that we also depend on terminals to handle so much, why not rely on the colour codes?
2020-07-24 18:34:43	lukee	but colour codes in ansi arent unicode!
2020-07-24 18:34:49	kensanata	True.
2020-07-24 18:35:04	kensanata	But both are the "environment" in which we live and work is what I'm claiming.
2020-07-24 18:35:14	lukee	no thats a false claim
2020-07-24 18:35:22	kensanata	You can disagree with that, sure.
2020-07-24 18:35:24	djph	kensanata: My only thing about it is that the assumption that all clients will do thing in "X" manner will bring us to the 1990s era of "This site best experienced in Internet Explorer 4"
2020-07-24 18:35:25	companion_cube	djph: ok, makes sense
2020-07-24 18:35:37	lukee	no the claim is factually false for gemini
2020-07-24 18:36:06	companion_cube	kensanata: graphical browsers don't have escape sequences, though
2020-07-24 18:36:15	companion_cube	why would gemini mandate using a terminal?
2020-07-24 18:36:18	lukee	nor audio/braile ones
2020-07-24 18:36:33	companion_cube	(unicode, on the other hand, is pervasive, and unavoidable)
2020-07-24 18:37:24	djph	kensanata: I would honestly rather not see that happen, and first define a cross-browser colorization scheme that all browsers can interpret (or ignore) on a whim
2020-07-24 18:37:39	djph	s/on a whim/on the fly/
2020-07-24 18:38:26	companion_cube	the idea is that clients are responsible for styling, anyway
2020-07-24 18:38:51	companion_cube	I'd rather have a bit more semantic markup, if needed (like bootstrap classes), but no choice of colors or font at all from the server side
2020-07-24 18:39:05	djph	take 'inxi' for example -- the colorization using escape sequences is pretty.  forget to turn off colorization, and sharing it via termbin, you're inundated with all those escape sequences
2020-07-24 18:39:27	kensanata	What is inxi?
2020-07-24 18:39:41	djph	terminal-based system report type thing for linux machines
2020-07-24 18:39:49	kensanata	ok
2020-07-24 18:40:13	companion_cube	most such tools take a `-nc` flag or equivalent to disable colors
2020-07-24 18:41:07	kensanata	I guess I come from the Emacs world were I simply want Emacs handle the escape sequences that are easy to handle (colours) so that I can use them for ls, grep, compiler warnings and all the other commands I run within Emacs.
2020-07-24 18:41:14	djph	inxi is 'c0' but yes
2020-07-24 18:41:44	djph	kensanata: which is fine... but it makes things difficult to handle if one party's browser doesn't display the sequences right
2020-07-24 18:41:56	djph	or ignore them.
2020-07-24 18:42:08	djph	e.g. https://termbin.com/cl28 vs https://termbin.com/yj3s
2020-07-24 18:42:08	madogrit	I'm a low vision user. Local color and font control is the exact thing that attracted me to the Gemini project. The ansi coding approach assumes that the terminal is the only client (factually false) and further that the content creator controlling visual formatting is more important than my client's ability to control my presentation.
2020-07-24 18:42:42	djph	identical output, one was "colorized" and the other suppressed.
2020-07-24 18:43:14	lukee	madogrit: what client or settings do you use to browse gemini?
2020-07-24 18:43:16	madogrit	A mine type extension or separate Gemini sub type seems like a good proposal to see if there's traction, but I'd want to always be able to experience content-only.
2020-07-24 18:43:29	madogrit	Deedum :)
2020-07-24 18:44:07	madogrit	I joined to build a similar client because I want font size control, presentation/flow that works on any platform.
2020-07-24 18:44:18	lukee	I've seen some pages about it, but never seen  a screenshot
2020-07-24 18:45:19	xj9	i think content only is sufficient. styles don't have a very high power to weight ratio
2020-07-24 18:47:25	madogrit	Screenshots of deedum on Android:  https://imgur.com/a/Nnpu60a
2020-07-24 18:49:12	lukee	madogit: thanks - it looks nice. Will it come out for other platforms eventually?
2020-07-24 18:52:18	madogrit	It's Flutter based, so the developer is working on whatever version bugs keep it from iOS (that's from their GitHub). Flutter is also beta testing supporting web applications (I know it seems backwards but for me being able to have a client-security focused client available anywhere really helps adoption)
2020-07-24 18:54:01	madogrit	I know I should just fork Deedum but I'm also using this as a learning opportunity to force myself to get competent at Dart's asynchronous features.
2020-07-24 18:54:24	madogrit	https://github.com/snoe/deedum
2020-07-24 19:10:56	~tiwesdaeg	I've been happy with deedum
2020-07-24 19:15:25	kensanata	lukee, djph: Can I quote some of the things you said on a wiki page? If yes, should I just use your nicks or do you want me to use some other name? Feel free to /msg me directly if you prefer.
2020-07-24 19:23:11	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 19:30:16	kensanata	When authoring lists, do you generally prefer to leave an empty line between list items?
2020-07-24 19:56:25	kensanata	gemini://transjovian.org/phoebe/page/The%20use%20of%20colours
2020-07-24 20:01:54	kevinsan	lukee, that link above is crashing GemiNaut for me (becomes non responsive, have to 'end program')
2020-07-24 20:03:43	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 20:04:27	kevinsan	with openssl s_client, I get connection timed out, so maybe you need to add a timeout to the connection (or process, you launch an exe for fetch, right?)
2020-07-24 20:10:17	djph	kensanata: nick is fine. quotes are CC-BY-NC :P
2020-07-24 20:16:58		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-24 20:16:59	kensanata	djph: I think I prefer doing without NC and decided to use my own words :P
2020-07-24 20:19:21	djph	kensanata: heh :) will sell you the rights for fake internet points
2020-07-24 20:19:22	lukee	hi kensanata: was just afk for a while. Yes I'm fine if you want to use some of the above discussion
2020-07-24 20:20:22	lukee	you can just attribute it to my real name. My gemini home is here: gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/
2020-07-24 20:21:44	lukee	kevinsan: that link seems fine for me. But I am using a more recent build than the release
2020-07-24 20:22:24	lukee	The next version has an updated gemini retrieval layer, as well as native image display, binary downloads, menu keyboard shortcuts
2020-07-24 20:23:57	lukee	and it has a download timeout you can specify (max download size and max download time)
2020-07-24 20:30:56	lukee	kensanata: I had a look at that page about use of colour. I personally don't think it captures all the different arguments we had. But its your page, so you can express your view of course :)
2020-07-24 20:34:46	kensanata	lukee: Anything you'd like to add? I would like to be a collaborative effort, and I do want to write down what was said in as far as it can help future efforts.
2020-07-24 20:37:52		doesntgolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 20:48:17		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 20:48:32	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 20:48:43	lukee	kensanata: I think the other points that are important for me are: 1) ansi is not unicode, but a platform specific set of escape codes, so it is an arbitrary extension of text/gemini. So there cannot be an expectation it will be interpreted by clients
2020-07-24 20:49:21	lukee	just as there cannot be any expectation of interpreting embedded CSS or HTML
2020-07-24 20:53:16	lukee	2) There should not be an expectation of clients being terminal based. There are a good number of non-terminal clients already, such as graphical, mobile and audio clients, none of which will have a notion of ANSI code interpretation
2020-07-24 20:55:57		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 20:56:46	lukee	3) interpreted content could be served using a content type that announces the content, such as text/x-ansi, or even text/gemini+x-ansi if you wanted to combine with other elements of text/gemini
2020-07-24 20:59:19	lukee	4) some users are attracted to gemini as there is no notion of server controlled styling. Embedded formatting codes move us back towards an author/server controlled user experience
2020-07-24 20:59:59	lukee	should I stop now - maybe I should put that in a gemlog piece :)
2020-07-24 21:02:36	madogrit	lukee thanks for summarizing, I had similar feedback (but the links on kensanata's page didn't seem to render right on deedum, heh) and I wanted to browse them further before objecting to the conclusions presented.
2020-07-24 21:16:15	omni	lukee: I wouldn't mind if you put it in you gemlog
2020-07-24 21:18:39	omni	I also feel that I should have a disclaimer at the top of my index.gmi
2020-07-24 21:18:48		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 21:19:23	omni	as I wan't to play around with ASCII art and unicode sillyness
2020-07-24 21:19:35	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 21:22:27	lukee	I've got a dodgy network connection here...
2020-07-24 21:23:02	lukee	omni: maybe I will do that...
2020-07-24 21:25:23	omni	there's always the #gemini IRC log to the resque gemini://makeworld.gq/irc
2020-07-24 21:26:10	omni	*rescue, wth
2020-07-24 21:26:10	lukee	yes - that's what I use to catch up when I've not got my IRC client running. Its a great service
2020-07-24 21:26:36	lukee	I was thinking risque maybe :)
2020-07-24 21:27:01	lukee	but in text, no one can tell who is naked
2020-07-24 21:27:22	omni	:D
2020-07-24 21:30:33	madogrit	New protocol extension idea...
2020-07-24 21:32:38		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 21:35:53	lukee	madogrit: what is your idea?
2020-07-24 21:37:18	madogrit	Oh an extension to tell when you're naked - sorry it's funnier when your irc connection is stable :)
2020-07-24 21:38:55	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 21:41:17		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 21:41:40	lukee_	🤐
2020-07-24 21:41:59	login	a mosh joke?
2020-07-24 21:43:15	lukee_	only if you want it to be
2020-07-24 21:44:17	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 21:49:10	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 21:50:50	lukee	I'm gonna call it a night - its late here, time to feed the cat
2020-07-24 21:51:47		lukee_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-24 21:53:47		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-24 22:03:55	cat	yes feed me
2020-07-24 22:16:58		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-24 22:29:38		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-07-24 22:50:36	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-24 23:40:03	▬▬▶	doesntgolf has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 01:38:11		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 01:49:38	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 01:54:14	luna	hi again
2020-07-25 02:02:07	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 02:06:52		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 02:08:49	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 02:14:01	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 02:55:36		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-25 03:00:14		doesntgolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 03:39:18		madogrit has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 03:39:23	▬▬▶	madogrit has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 05:26:51	▬▬▶	u0_a165 has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 05:26:56	u0_a165	Hello
2020-07-25 05:27:00	u0_a165	I have a question
2020-07-25 05:27:24	u0_a165	Can you set up a gemini server on a server which doesn't have a domain?
2020-07-25 07:04:19	luna	yes, you should be able to
2020-07-25 07:06:39	u0_a165	I see
2020-07-25 07:07:11	u0_a165	I was under the impression that it wasn't possible as all of the server on GUS use domains
2020-07-25 07:07:22	u0_a165	Or at least that it was complex
2020-07-25 07:21:57	u0_a165	Thank you
2020-07-25 07:22:00		u0_a165 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-25 07:40:44	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 08:41:38		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 08:47:41		luna has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 08:55:59		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-25 09:06:24		notsure has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 10:23:08	@tomasino	gemini + tor makes that ultra easy to do 
2020-07-25 10:23:13	@tomasino	oh, they left
2020-07-25 10:35:27	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 10:36:36		bard has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-25 10:37:26	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 11:43:40	epoch	using stunnel for the tls part of gemini now. :)
2020-07-25 11:43:54	epoch	so now I should be able to do server-side SNI support
2020-07-25 11:45:20	epoch	and I think I might be able to play with client-side certs too. haven't dug too deep into documentation yet.
2020-07-25 12:13:54	epoch	:/ can't quite tell if stunnel supports doing SNI while in inetd mode
2020-07-25 12:37:28	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 13:04:38		epoch has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-25 13:05:06		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-25 15:36:25	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 15:44:22		peterbb has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 16:11:22		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 16:21:48	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 19:31:57	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 19:35:13	Sario	Hey natpen
2020-07-25 19:46:17	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 19:49:02	natpen	Hihi :)
2020-07-25 19:50:25	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 20:10:52		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-25 20:12:15		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-25 20:35:14	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 20:38:40	@tomasino	heya
2020-07-25 20:41:53	dctrud	hi tomasino
2020-07-25 20:42:10	@tomasino	how goes it, my peoples
2020-07-25 20:44:56	dctrud	trying to decide whether to gemini browse or stream for a bit
2020-07-25 20:49:21	▬▬▶	Grim has joined #gemini
2020-07-25 21:28:04	@tomasino	stream!
2020-07-25 21:47:43		inex has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-26 00:33:33		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-26 00:45:31		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-26 00:51:30	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 02:28:53		Grim has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-26 03:11:04		dctrud has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-26 03:38:08	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 07:25:51	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 07:26:23	epoch	alright, so I have SNI working with my gemini server by using stunnel. :)
2020-07-26 07:27:01	epoch	I still use the same cert for all hostnames atm, but I can at least get the host data to my gemini script. :)
2020-07-26 07:28:12	epoch	gemini://epo.k.vu/ vs gemini://thebackupbox.net/
2020-07-26 07:29:14	epoch	same IP, same port, neither actually care about the domain portion of the URL passed to them...
2020-07-26 07:34:33	epoch	guess I could compare the SNI against the URL and.. what? warn? error?
2020-07-26 07:54:41		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-26 08:03:19	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 08:15:55	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 08:24:10		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-26 10:10:41		notsure has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-26 10:15:41	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 10:25:00	Cadey	o/ I've been working on a gemini client/server as a way to get better at Rust. My code is here: https://tulpa.dev/cadey/maj, it includes a curses client, a generic client/server library and the maj site code. I'm working on hosting more information about it in a better place in the future, but for right now you can visit gemini://maj.kahless.cetacean.club (it uses a private CA). I
2020-07-26 10:25:02	Cadey	don't know how spec-compliant the server software is, but please feel free to find out!
2020-07-26 10:28:35	Cadey	(i know the two relative links on the main page of the maj site are broken, still need to write the content and in some cases the code for them)
2020-07-26 10:29:58	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 10:34:01	Cadey	it also includes a text/gemini parser that _should_ be enough to translate all of the text/gemini spec into any other markup language you want
2020-07-26 11:29:14	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 11:41:14		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-26 11:49:40	natpen	Hi everyone :) happy Sunday. GUS has a new feature, and as usual I'm telling IRC first as a sort of early-access release! It's built on top of several recent additions to GUS (like cross-capsule backlinks), and allows you to see "Threads in Geminispace." It's not linked in the menu/header yet, but still available at gemini://gus.guru/threads
2020-07-26 11:52:00	epoch	ooooh. neat.
2020-07-26 11:52:13	djph	natpen: coffee's still kicking in - what's it define a 'thread' as?
2020-07-26 11:54:56	natpen	If there's a link between two pages that is A) cross-capsule, B) from a page that "looks like" a post (as opposed to a homepage, or a page of helpful links, etc), and C) to a page that also looks like a post, then it's a thread!
2020-07-26 11:57:28	natpen	or rather, "it's part of a thread"
2020-07-26 12:00:10	natpen	it was actually a really fun directed (a)cyclic graph problem to try and create the thread structures from the crawl data. (a)cyclic because sometimes people link back and forth, which creates... extra difficulty in determining which post is the parent post :P
2020-07-26 12:06:49	djph	natpen: ah, so if you wrote a thing about (whatever), and I came across it as part of my digging into (same topic), said "oh, check out natpen's work at $link"
2020-07-26 12:10:59	natpen	yep! so if that were in both of our gemlogs, then GUS would construct a two-member thread of it with my hypothetical post as the parent
2020-07-26 12:50:05	djph	neat
2020-07-26 13:03:42	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 13:06:13	kensanata	I finally went ahead and added that IP number recently discussed on the mailing list to the firewall disallow list.
2020-07-26 13:07:21	kensanata	I realised that these lines also belonged to the same IP number: grep "SSL accept attempt failed" /home/alex/farm/gemini-wiki.log.1 | wc -l → 6965
2020-07-26 13:19:26	natpen	I'm really curious what the point of all that crawling was. It was just, like, SO many weird and malformed requests
2020-07-26 13:21:40	kensanata	Some borked a script and didn't realize it was still crawling?
2020-07-26 14:01:38	Sario	Or some A-hole was trying to break servers
2020-07-26 14:29:34	@tomasino	seems more like a script run amok than intentional
2020-07-26 14:40:00	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 14:40:53	kensanata	Ugh. Changing date formats in Evolution: for headers in columns, elsewhere, in the calendar, with time, without time... So many things to change! And nowhere can I specifcy ISO 8601 date format. Hah.
2020-07-26 14:49:00	Sario	Sounds annoying
2020-07-26 14:50:27	Cadey	is there a load-testing tool for gemini servers?
2020-07-26 14:52:19	Sario	I think a server version of the client torture test was mentioned on the mailing list, but I don't remember what came of it.
2020-07-26 14:52:45	kensanata	Sounds like that IP number was that load-testing tool for all of us.
2020-07-26 14:54:18	kensanata	I mean, this is from my log: "total mem amount of 2.4 GB matches resource limit [total mem amount>100 MB] … trying to restart"
2020-07-26 14:57:08	easeout	this threads feature in GUS is cool. it seems like you could use it to stay up to date like CAPCOM, but without needing a data layer of atom feeds
2020-07-26 15:04:15	easeout	natpen: at the moment, what causes a page to look like a post?
2020-07-26 15:05:14	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 15:11:36	easeout	also re: the cross-capsule requirement, i imagine that prevents noise from links that aren't between different users? then, given tildes with user accounts starting at ~foo, would it work to draw the boundary between capsules at either a domain root or the first "~foo" path component?
2020-07-26 15:11:46	natpen	easeout: just a bunch of matching rules I fine-tuned over many trial runs of building threads - for example if a URL path contains "/gemlog/" or "/glog/" it's probably a post
2020-07-26 15:12:07	easeout	fudge factors ftw :)
2020-07-26 15:14:33	natpen	easeout: yes, the cross-capsule log takes exactly that kind of tilde/pubnix URL structure into account. So "foo.bar/~honk" and "foo.bar/~quack" would be considered cross-capsule
2020-07-26 15:14:42	easeout	way ahead o me
2020-07-26 15:14:49	easeout	s/o/of
2020-07-26 15:15:12		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-26 15:16:13	Sario	I'm currently doing something similar to soldierpunk's pekkulog, a single document that I update with each post
2020-07-26 15:17:03	easeout	great point, so do i. but today would that cause issues in GUS thread results? like if someone replied to my post A, and my post B replied to another, would that be treated as one thread when it's not, or would i be screened out for not having compatible per-post URLs
2020-07-26 15:18:11	natpen	whoa. I need to think about that one LOL.
2020-07-26 15:18:58	Sario	Also, I need a better way of updating it, as I'm currently just directly editing gemlog.gmi with nano
2020-07-26 15:19:04	easeout	if i were you i'd screen us out and explain why in your FAQ. a URL per post seems necessary or else what exactly would people be linking to
2020-07-26 15:19:31	easeout	me too, sario. unique URLs is my next project i think
2020-07-26 15:21:14	easeout	and even when you do have your posts on unique pages, some folks will also aggregate to a combined recent posts page or something, but you want the individual ones only
2020-07-26 15:22:37	natpen	it tries to account for that, and seems to be doing okay so far
2020-07-26 15:22:51	makeworld	natpen: Awesome feature idea. Is it live yet?
2020-07-26 15:23:00	makeworld	tomasino: Uberthreadz lives!! ^^
2020-07-26 15:23:05	makeworld	Lol
2020-07-26 15:23:24	easeout	ok sweet well so far i love it
2020-07-26 15:23:32	natpen	makeworld: yep, just not linked in menu or announced formally. but you can still get to it at gemini://gus.guru/threads
2020-07-26 15:24:07	natpen	I've been messing around with the visual presentation all morning, so it's not exactly... stable, yet :P
2020-07-26 15:24:37	makeworld	Woah interesting
2020-07-26 15:24:52	makeworld	I was hoping to see the old thread about replies on there
2020-07-26 15:25:14	makeworld	Here's my post in that thread: gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-06-02-replies.gmi
2020-07-26 15:25:24	makeworld	I just think it would be pretty meta lol
2020-07-26 15:25:45	makeworld	Anyway this looks very cool
2020-07-26 15:28:02	@tomasino	uberthreadz!!!
2020-07-26 15:29:00	natpen	LOL
2020-07-26 15:29:23	@tomasino	gus++
2020-07-26 15:29:31	@tomasino	hey natpen 
2020-07-26 15:29:48	@tomasino	did that crawler cache thing work out?
2020-07-26 15:30:29	natpen	tomasino: yes! that's live. i just didn't really announce it because it's invisible to end users.
2020-07-26 15:31:22	natpen	it's actually helping with threads too now though, because keeping track of crawl attempts allows me to calculate "first seen" dates for pages, which I'm using for the dates on threads.
2020-07-26 15:31:52	natpen	or rather, for the dates on posts within threads.
2020-07-26 15:32:15	@tomasino	badassery
2020-07-26 15:32:44	@tomasino	gus excludes itself from its own results, right?
2020-07-26 15:34:03	@tomasino	i can definitely see myself linking to threads on gus for a given post in my gemlog as a part of my standard footer. "See replies and commentary via Gus" or something
2020-07-26 15:34:15	makeworld	Yeah definitely
2020-07-26 15:35:41	natpen	tomasino: oh, yeah, GUS can show up in GUS search results (like if you search for known hosts, GUS will come up), but GUS shouldn't ever show up in a thread, because no GUS pages pass the litmus test for "looks like a post in Geminispace"
2020-07-26 15:36:21	@tomasino	ahh, gotcha
2020-07-26 15:36:31	@tomasino	was hoping not to waste your crawl time sending the link back atcha
2020-07-26 15:36:44	@tomasino	but i'm sure you've got all sorts of optimization stuff in there for circular references and whatnot
2020-07-26 15:37:02	@tomasino	oh i see what you're doing on threads
2020-07-26 15:37:13	@tomasino	trying to build it up on a timeline!
2020-07-26 15:37:22	@tomasino	i was expecting it to work like the "what links here" page
2020-07-26 15:37:43	@tomasino	i provide the URL as a param and see the threads
2020-07-26 15:37:50	@tomasino	but this is very cool
2020-07-26 15:38:57	@tomasino	if nothing else it gives me a glance at what posts triggered a lot of interaction in gemspace. If there ever was some justification for sorting gus results that might be it
2020-07-26 15:39:07	@tomasino	you do great work. :D
2020-07-26 15:40:35	natpen	Aw thanks!!
2020-07-26 15:41:22	makeworld	"i provide the URL as a param and see the threads"
2020-07-26 15:41:22	makeworld	That would be great to have yeah
2020-07-26 15:42:15	@tomasino	agreed, but i did zero work on this beyond talking about uberthreadz here, so i'm happy with whatever you make :D
2020-07-26 15:43:18	natpen	Yes! I've been thinking about that sort of thing too, for a kind of v2. I was thinking of making it even more free-form search. Basically like a "thread search" similar to the main GUS search - type in some text, returned results are matching threads, where, similar to the main search, it uses a weighted scoring algorithm across url AND page content, only this time aggregated across all posts in the thread.
2020-07-26 15:44:18	natpen	e.g., thread search for "5 questions" --> Christina's 5 questions. or "meaning" or "replies"
2020-07-26 15:45:20	@tomasino	now you're cooking with gas
2020-07-26 15:45:24	natpen	LOL
2020-07-26 15:45:29	@tomasino	hehe
2020-07-26 15:45:51	natpen	be back later on, time for Sunday run! Thank you everyone for all the great discussion and feedback ^.^
2020-07-26 15:45:57		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-26 15:45:59	@tomasino	ciao!
2020-07-26 15:52:05		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-26 15:52:14	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 15:52:54		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-07-26 15:53:13	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 17:32:01	Cadey	is there any love for jsonfeed in geminispace?
2020-07-26 17:32:13	Cadey	i find it's a bit easier to deal with than atom/rss can be
2020-07-26 17:38:22	makeworld	Booo
2020-07-26 17:38:27	makeworld	Jk :)
2020-07-26 17:38:42	makeworld	It might be easier, but I don't see the point really
2020-07-26 17:40:13	makeworld	It looks pretty cool, but in most cases feeds are robot generated, and robot consumed
2020-07-26 17:40:27	makeworld	Gemini does have some people writing feeds themselves, but even then it's not that complicated
2020-07-26 17:42:07	easeout	i dunno, early adopters like us can't be a litmus test for what's not complicated
2020-07-26 17:43:44	easeout	on the one hand, jsonfeed is an artifact of JavaScript, which is one of the things we're here to avoid. on the other hand, XML is also from the web world and is even worse to read and write
2020-07-26 17:44:30	easeout	i'm all for a simpler format becoming the norm
2020-07-26 17:45:19	easeout	not that supporting both would make GUS's job easier :D
2020-07-26 17:49:56	makeworld	I don't think GUS uses feeds at all
2020-07-26 17:50:20	makeworld	Also I think it's pretty easy to detach JSON and XML from the web, they stand alone very well
2020-07-26 17:50:45	makeworld	My only thing is that I don't see a huge need for switch from Atom
2020-07-26 17:51:23	makeworld	*for a
2020-07-26 17:51:34	Sario	I still need to set up atom for my capsule
2020-07-26 17:51:36	easeout	oh you're right, i was thinking of CAPCOM
2020-07-26 17:55:31	easeout	i kind of felt the same when jsonfeed first appeared; it seemed unnecessary since RSS/atom were well established and google reader was long since dead
2020-07-26 17:56:27	easeout	but i do like JSON as an easy to parse vehicle for structured data formats
2020-07-26 17:58:15	Cadey	either way, i think i'm gonna work on my flight journal today
2020-07-26 17:59:20	Cadey	kinda wish i had a gemini client for the kindle
2020-07-26 18:01:37	Cadey	i may also need to set up some kind of multi-host reverse proxy lol
2020-07-26 18:01:47	makeworld	Yeah the easy parsing is nice
2020-07-26 18:02:04	makeworld	Cadey: You can just use portal.mozz.us can't you? That's what I use on my Kobo lol
2020-07-26 18:02:34	Cadey	yeah, but a native one would be really nice, would mesh well with the high text ethos of gemini
2020-07-26 18:03:42	Sario	Odd question, but are there any standalone atom clients?
2020-07-26 18:16:20	makeworld	Ah yeah that'd be cool
2020-07-26 18:16:37	makeworld	Sario: Probably not? Idk, I thought Atom only made sense in the interface of a feed reader
2020-07-26 18:16:39	makeworld	Not sure what you mean
2020-07-26 18:17:22	Sario	I forgot the words feed reader.
2020-07-26 18:18:12	Sario	I'm wondering if there are any standalone feed readers that don't require being attached to a browser
2020-07-26 18:19:23	Cadey	newsbeuter or however it's spelled?
2020-07-26 18:19:28	Cadey	i know elfeed works if you use emacs
2020-07-26 18:19:54	makeworld	Sario: Definitely, there are lots
2020-07-26 18:19:59	Sario	of course there's an emacs one
2020-07-26 18:29:39	easeout	there are tons of non-browser feed readers for any platform you like
2020-07-26 18:30:10	easeout	for a search keyword, try RSS feed reader
2020-07-26 19:15:11	hannu	I'd love a terminal feed reader capable of gemini and gopher (though I'm not sure if phlogs have atom feeds).
2020-07-26 19:16:22	@tomasino	Many do
2020-07-26 19:16:54	hannu	gemfeed doesn't embed post content in the atom feed. I wonder if it should, for the best feed reader experience. OTOH fetching and rendering post content is about infinitely times easier for gemini than html.
2020-07-26 19:17:11	@tomasino	You can use curl to fetch gopher content and snownews can leverage external scripts to fetch
2020-07-26 19:17:41	@tomasino	I think you can do something similar in newsboat
2020-07-26 19:18:28	hannu	tomasino: oh, cool! Do you use snownews like that? Any gotchas?
2020-07-26 19:18:38	@tomasino	cosmic voyage has RSS but not atom. It's on web, gopher, and Gemini with the proper protocol links
2020-07-26 19:18:54	@tomasino	I like newsboat personally, bit snownews is ok
2020-07-26 19:19:02	@tomasino	I used it on SDF for a while
2020-07-26 19:19:13	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 19:26:16	makeworld	hannu: Embedding the content is interesting
2020-07-26 19:26:38	makeworld	What's the advantage, just that you don't need another request?
2020-07-26 19:26:42	makeworld	Or if the site goes down I guess
2020-07-26 19:26:55	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club is live!
2020-07-26 19:27:00	djph	yay
2020-07-26 19:27:15	makeworld	Loading...
2020-07-26 19:27:15	djph	wait, arent cetaceans "whales" ?
2020-07-26 19:27:26	hannu	makeworld: for html it's that you get *just* the content, not 2MB of javascript and tons of ads. For gemini, I guess not much.
2020-07-26 19:27:43	makeworld	Cadey: "certificate is valid for example.com, *.example.com" - you're almost there! Lol
2020-07-26 19:27:50	Cadey	w.w
2020-07-26 19:28:13	hannu	I guess for Gemini it would still be nice to just fetch all the feeds and have the content for offline reading.
2020-07-26 19:28:29	Sario	Cadey: congrats
2020-07-26 19:28:30	makeworld	Looks like you copied one of my commands directly ahaha
2020-07-26 19:28:56	Cadey	makeworld: try again?
2020-07-26 19:29:12	makeworld	I'm in 😎
2020-07-26 19:29:22	Cadey	:D
2020-07-26 19:29:31	djph	guess you changed something - browser just freaked out here
2020-07-26 19:29:43	Cadey	yeah, i actually made the cert properly
2020-07-26 19:30:23	makeworld	djph: What browser you using?
2020-07-26 19:30:34	djph	... *^#$# computer.  You're supposed to open http:// in lynx
2020-07-26 19:30:37	djph	makeworld: av98
2020-07-26 19:31:16	Sario	Cadey: av98 shows it good
2020-07-26 19:31:26	makeworld	Hmm I would've thought av98 would validate CNs, but I guess not
2020-07-26 19:31:59	djph	it was okay for a page or two, then (apparently) the server updated something and started presenting a new cert
2020-07-26 19:33:09	makeworld	Yeah
2020-07-26 19:33:12	Cadey	yeah, i changed the CN to cetacean.club
2020-07-26 19:33:16	Cadey	sorry
2020-07-26 19:33:36	djph	no worries :)
2020-07-26 19:33:45	djph	nice site ... better'n mine anyway :)
2020-07-26 19:33:51	Sario	Don't forget to tell gus about your site
2020-07-26 19:34:36	Cadey	i'm currently writing an email for the list and then I'll figure out gus
2020-07-26 19:35:07	djph	oh, that reminds me; I gotta go join the list
2020-07-26 19:36:28	makeworld	Already submitted it to GUS :)
2020-07-26 19:36:35	Sario	nvm
2020-07-26 19:36:46	Sario	I was typing in the link
2020-07-26 19:38:56	Cadey	aaand sent
2020-07-26 19:39:18	Cadey	the gemini iPad client is ending up to be my main client lol
2020-07-26 19:40:11	Sario	I'm mainly using Deedum
2020-07-26 19:40:29	makeworld	You should setup gemfeed and submit your journal to CAPCOM too, if you want
2020-07-26 19:41:03	Cadey	i wish gemfeed wasn't in python, makes it hard to use from NixOS
2020-07-26 19:41:07	djph	what's gemfeed (and, uh, I guess CAPCOM)?
2020-07-26 19:42:03	Sario	gemfeed creats an atom feed of your gemlog
2020-07-26 19:42:32	Sario	CAPCOM is an aggregator for atom feeds
2020-07-26 19:42:57	makeworld	djph: gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/
2020-07-26 19:43:05	makeworld	It's like Gemini's de-facto homepage
2020-07-26 19:43:30	Sario	makeworld: you keep pre-empting me >:P
2020-07-26 19:43:39	makeworld	Haha sorry
2020-07-26 19:43:42	Sario	np
2020-07-26 19:43:52	Sario	you just type faster
2020-07-26 19:44:07	djph	oh, "CAPCOM is an aggregator..."
2020-07-26 19:44:09	Cadey	how do you submit to capcom?
2020-07-26 19:44:28	Sario	email soldierpunk
2020-07-26 19:44:35	djph	wait
2020-07-26 19:44:59	djph	is is "sold*i*erpunk" or "solderpunk" ?  are they the same person?
2020-07-26 19:45:01	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/journal/atom.xml
2020-07-26 19:45:36	@tomasino	solder, like electronics
2020-07-26 19:46:12	djph	i keep seeing it spelled both ways :/
2020-07-26 19:46:26	hannu	Cadey: interesting work on maj, I'll have to check it out again later. I'm serving with gemserv, also written in Rust, and have contributed a couple of small enhancements.
2020-07-26 19:46:42	hannu	right now I depend on vhost and CGI support though
2020-07-26 19:46:44	Sario	I keep mis-reading it so*i*lder
2020-07-26 19:47:03	Sario	solderpunk@posteo.net
2020-07-26 19:47:06	djph	Sario: ... that would probably explain it then :)
2020-07-26 19:47:11		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-26 19:47:11	Cadey	thanks! I've been optimizing maj for serving apps more than static files, I plan to make a vhost reverse proxy at some point
2020-07-26 19:47:12	Sario	according to CAPCOM page
2020-07-26 19:51:50	Cadey	hannu: what CGI features do you really need?
2020-07-26 19:55:08	hannu	Cadey: that sounds really good. I wrote ansi.hrtk.in in jetforce/python because it was a nice app framework. I would have preferred Rust if there was something similar (which maj sounds like).
2020-07-26 19:55:36	Cadey	hannu: here's the biggest example i have so far: https://tulpa.dev/cadey/maj/src/branch/master/site/src/main.rs
2020-07-26 19:55:55	Cadey	it's not stable yet (i think i messed up the design somewhere), but it's being worked on :)
2020-07-26 19:56:01	hannu	Cadey: I'm serving a demo instance of https://sr.ht/~dancek/twinwiki/ with CGI. I could just add support for a full server or app framework or whatever. I'm not attached to CGI.
2020-07-26 19:58:54	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 20:06:18	@tomasino	Hey Cadey 
2020-07-26 20:06:20	@tomasino	welcome
2020-07-26 20:06:37	@tomasino	just saw your post to the mailing list
2020-07-26 20:07:08	Cadey	o/
2020-07-26 20:14:15	Cadey	i'm in the backlog for getting capcom indexing!
2020-07-26 20:15:03	Sario	Yay!
2020-07-26 20:22:00	@tomasino	huzzah
2020-07-26 20:31:06	@tomasino	oh, hey... i'll be doing tilde trivia on tilderadio tonight on a few hours
2020-07-26 20:31:09	@tomasino	23:30-0100 UTC
2020-07-26 20:31:25	@tomasino	if you're awake around then tune in at tilderadio.org and join the chat in the #tilderadio room
2020-07-26 20:31:29	@tomasino	it's very fun!
2020-07-26 20:59:52		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-26 21:21:19	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 21:51:04	omni	oh, nice, I'll try to tune in then
2020-07-26 22:01:38		madogrit has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-26 22:01:51	▬▬▶	madogrit has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 22:04:00		madogrit has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-26 22:04:34	▬▬▶	madogrit has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 22:09:11		madogrit has quit (Connection closed)
2020-07-26 22:09:14	▬▬▶	madogrit has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 22:15:09		siina has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-26 22:23:14		madogrit has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-26 22:23:24	▬▬▶	madogrit has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 23:08:06		djph has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-26 23:35:11		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-26 23:41:02	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-07-26 23:49:26	djph	yay, I didn't break irssi ... I think
2020-07-27 00:24:29	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 02:03:09		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-27 03:26:58	epoch	I think I have a gemini link shortener setup.
2020-07-27 03:33:52	epoch	gemini://epo.k.vu/2cd1 <- shortened link
2020-07-27 06:02:05	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 06:50:39		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-27 07:20:40	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 07:22:56	luna	looking at the chat archives, i just realized that i thought solderpunk was soldierpunk
2020-07-27 07:23:24	luna	mandela effect? :P
2020-07-27 07:30:52	epoch	I can confirm, I've read it solderpunk before then.
2020-07-27 07:31:17	epoch	unless it is selective mandela effect
2020-07-27 08:06:42	luna	all this time lurking around on the mailing list and i *never* noticed haha
2020-07-27 08:36:49	epoch	https://thebackupbox.net/cgi-bin/pageview.cgi?page=stunnel has a copy-pasta of my stunnel.conf if anyone else wants to use it to let them write simpler gemini servers.
2020-07-27 08:37:03	epoch	(won't have to deal directly with TLS, just the plaintext stuff)
2020-07-27 08:37:39	epoch	I still need to look into how client certs do to stunnel
2020-07-27 08:38:02	epoch	think I read in the man page that some env vars get se
2020-07-27 08:38:03	epoch	set*
2020-07-27 08:38:35	epoch	"The following environmental variables are set on Unix platforms: REMOTE_HOST, REMOTE_PORT, SSL_CLIENT_DN, SSL_CLIENT_I_DN"
2020-07-27 09:31:35	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 09:36:40		luna has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-27 09:47:50	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 09:47:54	epoch	got castor to crash again. looking into how.
2020-07-27 09:49:46	epoch	julienxx: hilit for when you get here
2020-07-27 09:50:21		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-27 10:00:35	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 10:00:48		cyflea has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-27 10:14:27	@julienxx	Hi there!
2020-07-27 10:14:41	@julienxx	epoch: I'm here :)
2020-07-27 10:14:50	epoch	o/
2020-07-27 10:15:26	epoch	I'm editing server-side code and I'll have to set it up again to cause the crash... one sec.
2020-07-27 10:18:52	kensanata	The random Gemini roulette sent me to gemini://gem.1.21jiggawatts.net/ and I enjoyed reading some of the pages.
2020-07-27 10:19:13	kensanata	So thank you for gemini://typed-hole.org/roulette :)
2020-07-27 10:20:27	@julienxx	:)
2020-07-27 10:21:23	kensanata	julienxx: Where does it get the list of sites from, GUS?
2020-07-27 10:23:30	@julienxx	yes I copied the know hosts some weeks ago, I should script that to be up to date some day
2020-07-27 10:31:43	kensanata	Yeah. I was about to do that, then I thought wait a minute, there's Roulette in your bookmarks!
2020-07-27 10:31:55	kensanata	I love the http://breadpunk.club/docs/manifesto/
2020-07-27 10:41:24	kensanata	But on Gemini... not much going on! I followed the lickthebread link to lickthecheese on tilde, to data.bellz, to lick at data.bellz, to their blog, to their only page on their blog, reading all the promising statements about the awesome content to come... and there's this: gemini://data.bellz.org/~lick/blog/1.gmi
2020-07-27 10:42:48	djph	kensanata: "cert expired since June" ?
2020-07-27 10:43:18	kensanata	djph: which one? I didn't get any warnings...
2020-07-27 10:44:24	djph	kensanata: for your data.bellz.org link
2020-07-27 10:44:30	Cadey	kensanata: yeah it's pretty quiet now, the protocol's still really new though
2020-07-27 10:44:45	djph	dunno how to tell av98 to shutup and just go
2020-07-27 10:44:57	epoch	2>/dev/null ?
2020-07-27 10:45:09	kensanata	It probably refuses to load?
2020-07-27 10:45:12	djph	^
2020-07-27 10:50:57	natpen	kensanata: did you mean breadpunk didn't have much going on on Gemini? I do see they have a capsule, with what look to be some active users: gemini://breadpunk.club/
2020-07-27 10:52:26	kensanata	natpen: I've clicked through them all, starting at the end.
2020-07-27 10:52:52	kensanata	But only the first three of them have something on Gemini. :)
2020-07-27 10:52:57	natpen	oh, okay. you're one step ahead of me then! I'm just browsing them now :P
2020-07-27 10:53:11	kensanata	If you start at the top, the experiene is smoother. :)
2020-07-27 10:53:25	natpen	oh wow, I'll say...
2020-07-27 10:54:05	kensanata	breadw's pages makes me want to bake some bread.
2020-07-27 10:54:40	kensanata	I hadn't heard of Nomic in a VERY long time!
2020-07-27 10:56:16	natpen	I have never heard of that. "The primary activity of Nomic is proposing changes in the rules" LOL
2020-07-27 10:58:12	Sario528	Good morning
2020-07-27 10:58:40	natpen	Good morning Sario :)
2020-07-27 10:59:08	Sario528	How goes, natpen?
2020-07-27 11:00:37	natpen	kensanata: this sounds hilarious. I want to play Nomic now :D
2020-07-27 11:01:13	kensanata	natpen: I always felt that it was something like a proving grounds for lawyers.
2020-07-27 11:01:47	kensanata	natpen: Then again, that one time I played "1000 white cards" it was hilarious, so perhaps there's a space for Calvinball-style games in my life.
2020-07-27 11:02:15	natpen	Sario528: oh, it goes well. Today is a bit cooler, which is a welcome change!
2020-07-27 11:02:23	natpen	How are you?
2020-07-27 11:03:12	kensanata	Ah, there it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1000_Blank_White_Cards
2020-07-27 11:03:54	Sario528	Pretty good, for a monday
2020-07-27 11:05:08	natpen	Oh wow, 1000BWC doesn't even have any initial rules!
2020-07-27 11:07:40	kensanata	Yeah, but once you've played, you keep some cards for next time. It's a bit like sourdough bread I guess...
2020-07-27 11:11:19	natpen	interesting :)
2020-07-27 11:24:53	epoch	does anyone else in here have castor built using rust 1.43?
2020-07-27 11:33:53	Cadey	good morning all
2020-07-27 11:34:25	epoch	g'morning
2020-07-27 11:34:43	Cadey	I've been copying over some DnD-style game worldbuilding notes for my campaign to my capsule
2020-07-27 11:35:52	natpen	epoch: no, but I just pulled latest and built successfully on nightly 1.44 fwiw
2020-07-27 11:36:26	epoch	I'm thinking there was a bugfix in rust
2020-07-27 11:36:30	epoch	between 1.43 and 1.44
2020-07-27 11:36:39	natpen	Morning Cadey - welcome to Geminispace!
2020-07-27 11:37:06	epoch	because castor crashes with a panic on my computer when trying to go to: gemini://epo.k.vu/
2020-07-27 11:38:31	natpen	oh, interesting. that does look like a bad resource - when I go there, I get a castor error message that says "Failed to read response (missing CRLF)"
2020-07-27 11:39:29	epoch	yeah, that's the behavior I expect
2020-07-27 11:40:07	epoch	but somehow castor crashes here instead of saying that.
2020-07-27 11:45:43	epoch	error message is saying an unwrap on an Err is causing the panic message
2020-07-27 11:46:19	kensanata	Cadey: Yay for worldbuilding notes! :D
2020-07-27 11:48:01	Cadey	i've been building up to a fantasy novel in the universe of my DnD campaign, i may end up releasing the novel on gemini
2020-07-27 11:57:30	epoch	g'night
2020-07-27 11:59:10	djph	Cadey: nice.  What version?
2020-07-27 11:59:35	Cadey	it's not quite DnD, but calling it DnD makes people understand it easlier
2020-07-27 11:59:37	Cadey	easier*
2020-07-27 12:00:33	djph	pathfinder then?
2020-07-27 12:00:57	djph	... just so long as it's not 4e or 5e DnD :P
2020-07-27 12:03:37	Cadey	https://s-jared.itch.io/6e
2020-07-27 12:06:28	djph	neat
2020-07-27 12:11:30	kensanata	Every time I work on the web interface for my Gemini Wiki it makes me want to cry. First, on mobile I need a viewport meta element or else it looks bad. That alone lets me know that things are not cool. But in addition to that, visiting the site using Firefox shows weird SSL errors in the logs.
2020-07-27 12:11:44	kensanata	That is, https://transjovian.org:1965/
2020-07-27 12:12:21	kensanata	And then they disappear, and I didn't do a thing.
2020-07-27 12:12:30	kensanata	How is one supposed to learn anything from this?
2020-07-27 12:14:47	kensanata	Time to prepare some sourdough, I say... /me wanders off into the kitchen
2020-07-27 12:16:28	kensanata	Cadey: Hah, I love it when hundreds of pages of Dungeon World just disappear into playbooks.
2020-07-27 12:18:34	Cadey	i have to say though, the hundreds of pages of dungeon world help with worldbuilding :D
2020-07-27 12:18:42	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 12:20:04	kensanata	Haha
2020-07-27 12:20:23	kensanata	I did get some interesting ideas from the chapters on fronts.
2020-07-27 12:26:57	djph	kensanata: found your problem.  "https" :P
2020-07-27 12:27:19	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 12:36:54	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 13:01:11		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-27 13:16:54	kensanata	djph: Hm?
2020-07-27 13:17:49	djph	kensanata: just yanking your chain as to the problem(s) you're having with "https://transjovian.org:1965"
2020-07-27 13:19:53	⚡	kensanata yeets djph into low earth orbit
2020-07-27 13:25:55		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-27 13:28:48		madogrit has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-27 16:23:52	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 16:25:33	acdw	g'morning everyone
2020-07-27 16:29:11	Cadey	are we supposed to call gemini sites capsules?
2020-07-27 16:29:18	acdw	kensanata: I was trawling the logs and I saw you mention breadpunk!
2020-07-27 16:29:23	acdw	Cadey: that's what I do
2020-07-27 16:29:32	acdw	I also like calling the whole thing the "constellation"
2020-07-27 16:29:35	acdw	but that's me :P
2020-07-27 16:31:20	kensanata	acdw: I sure did!
2020-07-27 16:31:23	Sario	I like that
2020-07-27 16:31:46	Sario	Constellation instead of web
2020-07-27 16:32:00	kensanata	acdw: I mentioned it in connection with gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/2020-07-22_Midnight_Pub
2020-07-27 16:32:56	kensanata	acdw: basically saying that I like the device of framing narratives to hold together a community of people
2020-07-27 16:33:06	kensanata	(people writing online, in this case)
2020-07-27 16:33:45	acdw	oh yes! :) I meant to reply to that Midnight Pub post, but I forgot
2020-07-27 16:33:50	acdw	I'll throw it in the list
2020-07-27 16:34:34	acdw	I actually want to build breadpunk to be more gemini-focused, with a gemlog.blue style authoring thing and also a portal
2020-07-27 16:34:39	acdw	a "stargate," if you will
2020-07-27 16:34:44	kensanata	Heh, yeah, the way I write my posts is I usually write something up, and then chances are I'll come back to it after a while and add a little of this or that...
2020-07-27 16:34:55	acdw	haha that's awesome
2020-07-27 16:35:20	acdw	I know some other people do that, I kind of wish I did but usually after I write something I don't want to look at it agian
2020-07-27 16:35:40	kensanata	I was wondering about adding a HTML form to Gemini Wiki – and Transjovian in particular, since my other wikis already have a web interface.
2020-07-27 16:36:34	kensanata	I guess in my case I put a bit more effort into it because I feel like the blog is my brain extension and sometimes I do go back. I even write comments to my past self to try and keept things together, more or less.
2020-07-27 16:37:57	dctrud	hi acdw, kensanata
2020-07-27 16:38:04	kensanata	Like: I wrote gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/2020-07-20_Does_a_Gemini_certificate_need_a_Common_Name_matching_the_domain%3F and then too much time passed and I felt additional stuff should be a comment, so I wrote gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/Comments_on_2020-07-20_Does_a_Gemini_certificate_need_a_Common_Name_matching_the_domain%3F
2020-07-27 16:38:08	kensanata	But it's just me talking to myself.
2020-07-27 16:38:15	kensanata	Hi dctrud!
2020-07-27 16:39:14	acdw	hey dctrud!
2020-07-27 16:39:25	Cadey	i set up a favicon.txt on my capsule
2020-07-27 16:39:52	dctrud	just having a quick gemini browse over lunch here, and wondering what to do next with my stuff
2020-07-27 16:40:07	acdw	oh wow Cadey mozz.us already picked it up
2020-07-27 16:40:33	acdw	kensanata: I think that'd be more easier with the titan: protocol, too, tbh
2020-07-27 16:40:45	acdw	what stuff you got dctrud?
2020-07-27 16:41:27	dctrud	I have a bunch of org-mode notes... shell one-liners etc. Things like that. Bit of a mess. Thinking about tidying a bit and getting onto my gemini capsule somewhere.
2020-07-27 16:41:59	acdw	That sounds awesome! Just serve itas text/org lol
2020-07-27 16:42:12	acdw	I'm sure Elpher could read those no problm :P
2020-07-27 16:42:21	kensanata	I wonder. :)
2020-07-27 16:42:49	kensanata	Sometimes I wonder whether there are more Elpher users than just me out there...
2020-07-27 16:42:50	acdw	Oh also Cadey, I like your little stories, they're a lto of fun :)
2020-07-27 16:43:07	dctrud	I use Elpher here... also Kristall
2020-07-27 16:43:17	acdw	kensanata: I *jsut* installed Emacs *again* to try it ... I'll try elpher out
2020-07-27 16:43:21	kensanata	Heh
2020-07-27 16:43:27	acdw	(related: what's the *easiest* way to install elpher?)
2020-07-27 16:44:01	kensanata	acdw: I guess if you know your way around Emacs: add MELPA to your package list and then use M-x list-packages, find and install it from there.
2020-07-27 16:44:28	acdw	oh yea, just saw it on the website ! I guess I could just ... RTFM :P
2020-07-27 16:44:31	kensanata	 (setq package-archives '(("gnu" . "https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/") ("melpa" . "https://melpa.org/packages/"))) (package-initialize)
2020-07-27 16:44:38	kensanata	That's what I use.
2020-07-27 16:44:41	Cadey	acdw: thanks! I've been working on importing my older stories from various bits and places
2020-07-27 16:45:24	kensanata	But for Elpher, I made some changes and suggested them to Tim, so if you want to live on the bleeding edge, I've got a branch in Tim's repo...
2020-07-27 16:45:31	Cadey	i like how the text/gemini format makes me just focus on the actual content
2020-07-27 16:45:52	kensanata	Elpher's repo can be browsed via Gopher (of course): gopher://thelambdalab.xyz/1/projects/elpher/
2020-07-27 16:46:01	dctrud	I need to sort out going to .gmi from Emacs other than org -> md -> gmi
2020-07-27 16:46:16	Cadey	gemini-mode
2020-07-27 16:46:39	kensanata	Yeah, I use gemini-mode to author stuff... But if you need Org Mode, of course...
2020-07-27 16:47:21	dctrud	I ported old blog stuff from org with pandoc then md2gemini but needs quite a bit of tidying
2020-07-27 16:47:25	Cadey	also i'm pretty sure i have the first lojban content on the gemini constellation
2020-07-27 16:48:49	kensanata	dctrud: Yeah, I opted to convert wikitext to gemtext on the fly... It works well enough, I guess.
2020-07-27 16:50:17	dctrud	oh btw kensanata... I have a son who is obsessed with bees, and is enjoying your wasp photos too.
2020-07-27 16:50:27	acdw	kensanata: Followed the directions from the website, I might try the ~new~ repo :)
2020-07-27 16:50:40	acdw	I am currently browsing with Elpher! Just gopher rn tho
2020-07-27 16:51:05	acdw	It should be pretty easy to make an org->gmi converter, right?
2020-07-27 16:51:53	dctrud	acdw - same issues as for markdown, plus some I think. Can steal the link handling approaches from md2gemini etc
2020-07-27 16:51:59	acdw	oh shoot, I *like* elpher
2020-07-27 16:52:10	acdw	It's maybe what I wanted bollux to be (from using it for ... 30 seconds?)
2020-07-27 16:52:18	kensanata	Haha.
2020-07-27 16:52:40	acdw	ah, that makes sense dctrud. I always forget about inline markup stuff -- that's the kicker
2020-07-27 16:52:58	kensanata	dctrud: Very cool! Do you have a bee hotel or something like that where the kid can get a closer look at bees?
2020-07-27 16:53:41	dctrud	we don't have a bee hotel here... just a bunch of texas native plants in one border that attract the bees
2020-07-27 16:54:31	kensanata	Nice!
2020-07-27 16:55:02	dctrud	my father has gotten into photography, and my parents in the UK have an amazing garden, including bee hotel... so we get pictures from them
2020-07-27 16:55:32	acdw	gemini-mode is obsolete?
2020-07-27 16:56:59	dctrud	have a good one all - I need to get back to work. Building ppc64le binaries under qemu today, so need to grab a coffee or something to restore my patience too.
2020-07-27 16:57:10	acdw	good luck! o/
2020-07-27 17:00:01	dctrud	cheers - have fun with Elpher acdw
2020-07-27 17:00:11	acdw	:D
2020-07-27 17:00:18	kensanata	acdw: What do you say that gemini-mode is obsolete?
2020-07-27 17:00:19	ℹ 	acdw is now known as acdw-away
2020-07-27 17:00:25	kensanata	too late...
2020-07-27 17:00:33	acdw-away	It said it was on the melpa thing
2020-07-27 17:00:37	acdw-away	okay no realy away
2020-07-27 17:00:39	acdw-away	works tho
2020-07-27 17:01:45	kensanata	I don't see anything on https://git.carcosa.net/jmcbray/gemini.el saying it's obsolete...
2020-07-27 17:08:46	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 17:09:35	acdw	kensanata: It just said in the package info on M-x package-list-packages
2020-07-27 17:09:52	acdw	probably a mis-understanding
2020-07-27 17:11:55	kensanata	acdw: Hm, perhaps it means that you installed an older version from MELPA and MELPA refreshed it's index and so you could use U to mark all packages for upgrade, and then x to do it (or something like that), and you'd get an even fresher Elpa.
2020-07-27 17:11:58	kensanata	Elpher
2020-07-27 17:16:04	acdw	Oh awesome! Thank you :) I was struggling earlier with closing a buffer in Emacs, so I am *green*
2020-07-27 17:16:12	acdw	(Realized it's C-x 1 to get 1 buffer)
2020-07-27 17:16:39	acdw	The *real* issue, coming from Vim, is I hit Esc *all* the time, and then I get errors like <Esc> M-x isn't a thing
2020-07-27 17:34:55	Cadey	acdw: evil mode makes emacs muscle-memory compliant with vim
2020-07-27 17:36:37	acdw	I've tried evil a few times, usually with frameworks like Doom or Spacemacs, but it actually ends up having a bigger problem: I expect the entirety of my Vim muscle memory, which is moderately plugin'd out -- so it's confusing again
2020-07-27 17:37:06	acdw	Also there's been kind of an idea of "ideological purity" that has been holding me back (I realize now it's goofy) ... wanting to know Emacs as Emacs
2020-07-27 17:37:39	acdw	I'm going to see if I can find some basic evil-mode tutorials and set it up by itself, maybe that'll work
2020-07-27 17:37:43	acdw	:) Thanks!
2020-07-27 17:41:06	acdw	and of course, now I take *one* look at it and I see that the emacs-wiki is brimming with info on evil-mode
2020-07-27 17:41:13	⚡	acdw feels pretty silly about htat
2020-07-27 17:42:04		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-27 17:45:49		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-27 19:01:11	ℹ 	acdw-away is now known as acdw
2020-07-27 19:01:18	acdw	aaaaand i'm back
2020-07-27 19:08:21	Sario528	Welcome back
2020-07-27 19:15:23	acdw	:D
2020-07-27 19:15:31	acdw	how's it going Sario528?
2020-07-27 19:16:03	Sario528	Not too bad
2020-07-27 19:16:43	acdw	nice, nice!
2020-07-27 19:17:21	Sario	acdw: how are you?
2020-07-27 19:17:34	acdw	I'm well. Just had a cup of coffee so I'm buzzing
2020-07-27 19:17:44	acdw	also ate lunch, then got back to the office where I'm ... on here. lol
2020-07-27 19:17:50	acdw	looking @ emacs
2020-07-27 19:17:59	acdw	thinking about moving stuff around with my gemini situation
2020-07-27 19:18:37	Sario	I've been thinking about taking the plunge and learning emacs
2020-07-27 19:20:37	acdw	this is time number 3 for me, I think
2020-07-27 19:20:40	acdw	maybe 4
2020-07-27 19:20:48	acdw	I'm a Vim baby
2020-07-27 19:21:37	Sario	In the war between vim and emacs, I'm undecided
2020-07-27 19:24:50	Sario	acdw: do you know of a good starter guide for emacs?
2020-07-27 19:29:59	acdw	haha not really no
2020-07-27 19:30:04	acdw	that might be part of my problem
2020-07-27 19:30:16	acdw	I've tried different frameworks, like spacemacs and doom
2020-07-27 19:30:24	acdw	I liked doom better but I still had a hard time configuring it
2020-07-27 19:30:31	acdw	Emacs's included help is actually okay
2020-07-27 19:30:36	acdw	now that i'm thinking of it
2020-07-27 19:30:59	Sario	That's good to know
2020-07-27 19:32:12	acdw	:) also this looks ~okay~ https://planet.emacslife.com/ though it's a blog planet
2020-07-27 19:32:23	acdw	speaking of that's some terminology that needs to get into geminispace
2020-07-27 19:34:11	Sario	blog planet?
2020-07-27 19:36:20	acdw	like an aggregator -- there's a lot of "planets" around the web. basically it pulls posts from a number of blogs around a central topic, i.e. Emacs, and puts them in one place.
2020-07-27 19:37:24	Sario	That works for the gemini theme very nicely
2020-07-27 19:39:04	acdw	yes, they're great. the first planet I saw was for Crunchbang Linux, I think
2020-07-27 19:39:21	acdw	Honestly a planet gemini could be really great -- basically CAPCOM but with the articles inline
2020-07-27 19:39:32	acdw	so actually, maybe not then, lol, now that I think about it
2020-07-27 19:43:52	Sario	Maybe not full articles, but snippets and/or summaries with links to the article
2020-07-27 19:49:14	acdw	that'd work for sure!
2020-07-27 19:49:26	acdw	basically CAPCOM with a little extra -- maybe a blockquote underneath each link
2020-07-27 20:03:15	Sario	gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~sario528/projects/gemideas.gmi
2020-07-27 20:05:11	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 20:05:21	kensanata	Does anybody know 34.194.171.239 from their logs?
2020-07-27 20:05:50	djph	checking
2020-07-27 20:07:48	kensanata	A quick skim seems to show burtst of 20 connections per second.
2020-07-27 20:08:03	djph	It's AWS, but beyond that, I've got nothing
2020-07-27 20:08:10	CommunistWolf	I really shouldn't have checked the logs for gemini://ur.gs
2020-07-27 20:08:16	CommunistWolf	basically empty :D
2020-07-27 20:08:28	CommunistWolf	(just like the page, but hey)
2020-07-27 20:08:46	kensanata	djph: Yeah, I wondered whether it was a search engine like GUS.
2020-07-27 20:09:14	djph	I've only got ~20 hits
2020-07-27 20:09:25	kensanata	I've got about 1700
2020-07-27 20:09:30	kensanata	Over all the log files.
2020-07-27 20:10:06	kensanata	But for the 27th just 255 hits.
2020-07-27 20:10:46	kensanata	My problem was that I was trying to restart in the middle of a burst and had twenty borked SSL transactions and processes not dying and the port not freeing up...
2020-07-27 20:13:44	djph	shame on amazon
2020-07-27 20:13:58	djph	guess we know who the more popular person is though :)
2020-07-27 20:14:36	djph	https://search.arin.net/rdap/?query=34.194.171.239
2020-07-27 20:17:11	kensanata	djph: Hm, what does that tell you? Is there more info than in a simple whois from the command line?
2020-07-27 20:18:39	kensanata	Anyway, ipset to the rescue...
2020-07-27 20:19:27	djph	kensanata: mostly pulls up the registrant info more than anything.  then again, I tend to be "not good" with the whois syntax
2020-07-27 20:20:18	kensanata	Heh. I just go "whois blargh" and then look at the info.
2020-07-27 20:22:01	kensanata	In any case, I think, I hope, maybe my Gemini Atom feed is fixed, now with full content. Not that anybody is using it. CAPCOM is ignoring it, as far as I know. Is anybody else here using feeds?
2020-07-27 20:22:05	djph	heh, maybe whois got better/
2020-07-27 20:22:12	djph	thre are feeds?
2020-07-27 20:22:19	kensanata	Sure.
2020-07-27 20:22:56	kensanata	eg gemini://transjovian.org:1965/do/atom
2020-07-27 20:23:36	Cadey	CommunistWolf: ur.gs isn't resolving for me
2020-07-27 20:23:55	kensanata	or the one that was borked: gemini://alexschroeder.ch/do/atom
2020-07-27 20:25:40	djph	kensanata: it seems borked (least in av98 -- though probably me).  it opens an xml file in my browser :/
2020-07-27 20:29:41	acdw	eeey Sario just saw that link! NICE
2020-07-27 20:30:40	CommunistWolf	it's v6-only I think
2020-07-27 20:41:04	kensanata	djph: I'd say that's probably correct: your client is handling it by passing it off to a program that can display it, which happens to be your browser.
2020-07-27 20:55:53		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-27 21:08:26	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 21:27:14	Cadey	I think I just got majc to handle history, relative links and link clicking in general
2020-07-27 21:53:33		xj9 has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-27 22:06:40	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 22:09:21	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 22:16:29	Cadey	so i just found out that gemini://gus.guru was somehow breaking maj horriffically. I managed to fix it though
2020-07-27 22:25:23	acdw	nice! Is maj your server? Or a client?
2020-07-27 22:34:22		luna has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-27 22:58:56		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-27 23:11:28	Cadey	yes
2020-07-27 23:11:49	Cadey	maj is a generic framework, majc is the client, majd is the work-in-progress superserver
2020-07-27 23:17:04		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-07-27 23:40:02	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 23:45:19	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-07-27 23:46:54		luna has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-28 00:28:44		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-28 01:02:41		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-28 01:09:04	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 01:19:37	omni	ncgopher crash on this gemini://park-city.club/ftp/invis/branding/viz_ascii.txt
2020-07-28 02:09:12		brainfunnel has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-28 03:56:06	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 07:25:39	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 10:20:58	epoch	what would be a good environment variable name for storing the hostname sent in SNI?
2020-07-28 10:21:25	epoch	my HTTP CGIs will also get this variable set, so they could use it too.
2020-07-28 10:21:35	epoch	already existing CGI vars don't cover this.
2020-07-28 10:21:53	epoch	maybe TLS_SERVERNAME?
2020-07-28 10:22:12	epoch	or, TLS_SNI?
2020-07-28 10:22:27	@xq	REQUESTED_TLS_HOST
2020-07-28 10:22:42	kevinsan	isn't SERVER_NAME giving you this already?
2020-07-28 10:23:01	epoch	SERVER_NAME is more like what the server thinks its own name is
2020-07-28 10:24:00	epoch	REQUEST_ vars seem like something that'd be derived from stuff in the request, so maybe
2020-07-28 10:26:28	epoch	I also shouldn't use SERVER_NAME because SERVER_NAME should be set even if SNI isn't used.
2020-07-28 10:27:13	epoch	a handful of these CGI vars should have been HTTP_ vars
2020-07-28 10:27:17	epoch	REQUEST_METHOD
2020-07-28 10:27:18	kevinsan	I suppose SNI_SERVER_NAME is the most approriate
2020-07-28 10:27:37	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 10:28:06	kevinsan	Yes, gemserv gives me GEMINI_URL, which can be used to determine the SNI host
2020-07-28 10:28:13	epoch	oh, SERVER_NAME is supposed to change to Host:
2020-07-28 10:28:52	epoch	does GEMINI_URL actually contain the SNI host, or just the requested URL?
2020-07-28 10:29:19	epoch	I'm about to add checks in that the SNI host matches the hostname in the requested URL
2020-07-28 10:29:26	epoch	then say "I don't proxy" if they don't
2020-07-28 10:29:46	epoch	right now I've just been ignoring the hostname in the request
2020-07-28 10:30:32	kevinsan	my understanding is that if I request gemini://xyz.example.com/, and gemini://abc.example.com/, so I see the SNI host as a subset of the requested URL.
2020-07-28 10:30:33	epoch	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3875 btw
2020-07-28 10:31:16	kevinsan	my gramatikal woz ungood
2020-07-28 10:31:30	epoch	the SNI host is part of the TLS packets, the gemini data rides along inside it and includes a separate domain
2020-07-28 10:31:47	epoch	usually they should be the same
2020-07-28 10:31:54	epoch	but they /can/ differ.
2020-07-28 10:32:12	epoch	like um
2020-07-28 10:32:43	kevinsan	correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd have to go a long way to have them differ (I can see how, using echo and s_client)
2020-07-28 10:33:00	epoch	printf "gemini://first.host\r\n" | openssl s_client -servername sni.host.differs -ign_eof -connect sni.host.differs:1965
2020-07-28 10:33:46	epoch	yeah, I dunno how clients would have a UI for letting users do different values
2020-07-28 10:34:22	kevinsan	but your question still stands - what value should be exposed via CGI?
2020-07-28 10:34:28	epoch	both
2020-07-28 10:34:30	epoch	:P
2020-07-28 10:34:35	epoch	just need to pick the name
2020-07-28 10:35:16	epoch	right now I've modding stunnel5 so that I can get the SNI name from there into my gemini server
2020-07-28 10:35:21	epoch	I'm*
2020-07-28 10:35:49	epoch	so I can pick which vhost to use based on SNI if I want instead of in the requested URL
2020-07-28 10:37:34	kevinsan	Yes, that's the most sensible to me, because otherwise some of the request has to be read prior to handing it to a back-end vhost for serving.
2020-07-28 10:39:33		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-28 10:40:44	epoch	hrm. why'd they do GEMINI_URL instead of REQUEST_URI ?
2020-07-28 10:41:19	epoch	not really any reason for GEMINI_ variables afaict
2020-07-28 10:41:35	epoch	all the HTTP_* variables are HTTP headers
2020-07-28 10:44:17	kevinsan	I suppose to allow for virtual hosting without SNI?
2020-07-28 10:45:04	epoch	I think apache might already have a variable name picked for this.
2020-07-28 10:45:05	kevinsan	sorry, I see what you're asking. and I don't know.
2020-07-28 10:46:03	epoch	"SSL_TLS_SNI string Contents of the SNI TLS extension (if supplied with ClientHello)"
2020-07-28 10:46:09	epoch	https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/mod_ssl.html
2020-07-28 10:46:59	epoch	I might as well use that.
2020-07-28 10:47:34	kevinsan	personally, I wouldn't follow the HTTP world - it comes with baggage (e.g. is the SSL_ prefix conveying anything useful?)
2020-07-28 10:50:42	epoch	if I add other env vars that might go into the SSL group, but aren't TLS, they'd still be prefixed with SSL_ ?
2020-07-28 10:51:30	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/env if you want to see what vars CGIs get so far. still need to add a buttload of them.
2020-07-28 11:20:46	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 11:35:48		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-28 11:39:52	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 12:08:34	epoch	rust on my computer just got upgraded to 1.44
2020-07-28 12:08:42	epoch	so that'll probably make the error I was getting go away.
2020-07-28 12:08:45	epoch	(in castor)
2020-07-28 12:08:50	epoch	I'm about to test it
2020-07-28 12:28:01	epoch	oh yeah. I can't test it. I got rid of the server-side bug that was causing it.
2020-07-28 12:28:02	epoch	oh well
2020-07-28 12:49:27	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 13:05:17	epoch	where was it that I read SNI was required for gemini?
2020-07-28 13:36:19	kensanata	In the spec.
2020-07-28 13:36:49	kensanata	Chapter 4: "Use of the Server Name Indication (SNI) extension to TLS is also mandatory, to facilitate name-based virtual hosting."
2020-07-28 13:39:01	kensanata	SNI was also used in a reply to a point of mine regarding CN having to match the hostname. More here: gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/Comments_on_2020-07-20_Does_a_Gemini_certificate_need_a_Common_Name_matching_the_domain%3F
2020-07-28 13:41:58	kensanata	And as far as I remember, nobody else weighed in except for some musings by Solderpunk: https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/002267.html
2020-07-28 14:11:32		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-28 14:12:14	epoch	so I guess I can just refuse any request that doesn't have SNI
2020-07-28 14:15:24	kensanata	I don't know. Does calling openssl from the command line do SNI? If that would preclude basic clients from working, I'd be concerned.
2020-07-28 14:15:58	kensanata	Hm, not so bad: ｢If -servername is not provided, the TLS SNI extension will be populated with the name given to -connect if it follows a DNS name format. If -connect is not provided either, the SNI is set to "localhost".｣
2020-07-28 14:16:19	kensanata	That means, it even works for 127.0.0.1! :)
2020-07-28 14:16:42	kensanata	(The above is from the s_client man page.)
2020-07-28 15:16:06	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 16:29:14	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 16:29:22	acdw	good morning everyone!
2020-07-28 16:30:12	wgreenhouse	kensanata:
2020-07-28 16:30:50	wgreenhouse	kensanata: oops. interesting--I think maybe some gemini server certs I've encountered are missing SNI, based on complaints emacs's nsm generates when using elpher
2020-07-28 16:46:13	vee	Hi acdw
2020-07-28 16:50:13	kensanata	wgreenhouse: I'm not sure I understand. My understanding of SNI is akin to the host header in HTTP: the client sends it along to tell the server what hostname they want to contact, and then the server presents the correct certificate. The server doesn't send any SNI to the client, however. It's the server's certificate that is checked by the client.
2020-07-28 16:50:53	kensanata	In HTTP context, that means comparing commonName and altSubjectName or whatever the fields are called with the hostname they're expecting. No SNI required.
2020-07-28 16:51:51	kensanata	In Gemini context, my claim is that nothing ought to happen: just trust on first use. Those Gemini clients that try and validate the hostnames are doing it wrong. Anyway, that's my claim.
2020-07-28 16:53:10	kensanata	But, because one or two people complained, I am now using SNI on the server side to pick the correct Let's Encrypt certificate to present to clients.
2020-07-28 16:53:51	wgreenhouse	ah. I see :)
2020-07-28 16:54:13		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-28 17:26:23	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 17:39:01	acdw	hey vee :) sorry I was working with a client for a while
2020-07-28 17:39:30	acdw	kensanata: that sounds really cool!
2020-07-28 17:51:35		acdw has left #gemini
2020-07-28 18:15:03	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 18:50:30	wgreenhouse	kensanata: well elpher gives the choice of pure tofu or not. I have it set to do the same as it does with other emacs TLS connections
2020-07-28 18:51:25	wgreenhouse	to do the same as emacs does with other TLS connections, I mean. oof
2020-07-28 19:01:01	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 19:01:32	lukee	hi folks
2020-07-28 19:18:55	~tiwesdaeg	hola
2020-07-28 19:21:53	lukee	how are things on tilde.pink?
2020-07-28 19:23:35	makeworld	Working on adding themeing to Amfora, I'm almost done
2020-07-28 19:24:28	lukee	cool - what is your approach to it?
2020-07-28 19:24:29	tildebeast	sounds great, makeworld
2020-07-28 19:24:39	makeworld	:)
2020-07-28 19:25:08	makeworld	lukee: There's gonna be many predefined keys you can use in [theme] section of the config file
2020-07-28 19:25:34	tildebeast	am just using it for the first time -- is there a way of cancelling loading if a url is taking a while...?
2020-07-28 19:25:37	makeworld	You can set it to a W3C color name, or a hex color code like "#ffffff"
2020-07-28 19:25:43	lukee	Are we talking global theme or site themes?
2020-07-28 19:26:42	makeworld	tildebeast: Happy to hear you're using it! And you've hit a pain point, unfortunately there isn't at the moment, other than Ctrl-C. You can also open a new tab, but that's not a perfect solution. I plan on fixing this though
2020-07-28 19:27:04	makeworld	lukee: Global theme, like what color the bottom bar is, or headings are, etc
2020-07-28 19:27:25		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-28 19:29:58	lukee	Thats great. what scope of colour control do you have in a command line app - a fixed palette or the full gamut?
2020-07-28 19:30:25	makeworld	It depends on the terminal
2020-07-28 19:30:45	makeworld	Some only implement 16 colors, some do 256, and modern ones support truecolor, so all of RGB
2020-07-28 19:31:03	makeworld	I limit the default Amfora palette to within the 256
2020-07-28 19:31:17	lukee	so what happens if you choose a colour not on the palette - does it map to the nearest one?
2020-07-28 19:31:25	makeworld	Or I will in the next release, I accidentally went outside it before ;)
2020-07-28 19:31:41	makeworld	Depends on the terminal, I think most do that
2020-07-28 19:32:34	lukee	There's a fun theme-ing fact for GemiNaut: The site-specific themes are automatically calculated based on a md5 hash of the domain
2020-07-28 19:32:51	lukee	but when you go to tilde.pink the themes actually are pink
2020-07-28 19:33:00	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/IQp2NtP
2020-07-28 19:33:13	makeworld	Haha nice!
2020-07-28 19:33:20	lukee	(both flavours of the fabric theme)
2020-07-28 19:33:25	lukee	what are the chances of that?
2020-07-28 19:33:26	makeworld	Boo md5 though, your colors are cryptographically secure!!
2020-07-28 19:33:31	tildebeast	no problem makeworld. sounds like it's on the roadmap so maybe not worth a feature request?
2020-07-28 19:33:49	makeworld	Yeah, I am already aware so there's no need. Thanks though!
2020-07-28 19:35:27	lukee	Also another one for you makeworld: here is the user settings dialog for the forthcoming release of GemiNaut.
2020-07-28 19:35:28	tildebeast	does gemini markup support proper "early geocities" colourschemes? :)
2020-07-28 19:35:35	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/6KDyTw3
2020-07-28 19:35:55	lukee	you will spot the download control fields
2020-07-28 19:36:20	makeworld	Oh cool! I assume there's a No Limit option?
2020-07-28 19:36:28	lukee	tildebeast: gemini markup has no visual styling
2020-07-28 19:36:39	lukee	well I max out at 30mins and 1Gb
2020-07-28 19:36:46	makeworld	Happy to see the new gemget feature get used
2020-07-28 19:36:51	lukee	beyond that you really should use http :)
2020-07-28 19:37:09	makeworld	Might be good to allow the user the option, even if it's not the default. But  yeah, that's pretty long lol
2020-07-28 19:37:19	tildebeast	lukee: I know. Where's the 'bing terminally facetious' emoticon when I need it?
2020-07-28 19:37:27	tildebeast	s/bing/being
2020-07-28 19:37:36	lukee	ok fair point!
2020-07-28 19:39:28	tildebeast	:)
2020-07-28 19:39:53	lukee	there's always the hunched-over-the-keyboard-in-the-dark theme https://imgur.com/a/nGFg3RY
2020-07-28 19:40:26	tildebeast	would it be useful to have a pdf cheatsheet for gmi markup to help new writers? could put one together.
2020-07-28 19:40:47	lukee	I think solderpunk already did one
2020-07-28 19:40:56	tildebeast	nice
2020-07-28 19:41:13	natpen	There is a cheatsheet already, but not in PDF form: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/cheatsheet.gmi
2020-07-28 19:41:26	natpen	That could be a good starting point :)
2020-07-28 19:42:01	tildebeast	was thinking of something that looks nice on a wall or tacked to the back of a convenient colleague
2020-07-28 19:44:31	lukee	its barely long enough for half a page
2020-07-28 19:45:52	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/dzGY24r
2020-07-28 19:47:04	lukee	actually the cheatsheet doesnt seem to mention links - not sure why
2020-07-28 19:47:20	lukee	the other page by solderpunk on gemtext is this one
2020-07-28 19:47:21	lukee	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/gemtext.gmi
2020-07-28 19:52:10	Cadey	i think i found an ambiguity in the text/gemini spec
2020-07-28 19:52:27	Cadey	what is the document at gemini://gemlog.blue/ supposed to render?
2020-07-28 19:52:44	Cadey	should the `gemlog . blue` be part of the fixed-width output?
2020-07-28 19:53:14	makeworld	Cadey: You mean the ASCII art at the top?
2020-07-28 19:53:19	Cadey	yes
2020-07-28 19:53:25	Cadey	i'm seeing amfora not render that
2020-07-28 19:53:37	lukee	the art should be fixed width
2020-07-28 19:53:38	makeworld	Hmm that's weird
2020-07-28 19:53:47	makeworld	What are you seeing?
2020-07-28 19:54:09	lukee	Ah there is a comment on the opening ```
2020-07-28 19:54:16	Cadey	yeah
2020-07-28 19:54:17	lukee	which is not supposed to be rendered
2020-07-28 19:54:20	Cadey	okay
2020-07-28 19:54:39	makeworld	Ohh yeah, anything after the ``` is not rendered
2020-07-28 19:54:42	lukee	they are as yet undefined, but the whole opening ``` should not be shown
2020-07-28 19:55:10	lukee	maybe they might become the equivalent to alt-text or some rendering hint if a programming language or ...
2020-07-28 19:55:11	makeworld	It could be used for metadata though, a common example is for blind people, it would read that to them, instead of reading out the ASCII art
2020-07-28 19:55:24	makeworld	Yeah, alt-text
2020-07-28 19:58:25	Cadey	thanks, i managed to fix a parsing error in maj
2020-07-28 19:58:43	lukee	great to hear there is a new client on the block
2020-07-28 20:00:28	Cadey	yep: https://i.imgur.com/rfPdf9c.png
2020-07-28 20:01:10	lukee	nice colour scheme and visual design for a terminal app
2020-07-28 20:01:18	lukee	are those menus at the top?
2020-07-28 20:01:42	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 20:01:51	Cadey	yep
2020-07-28 20:02:11	Cadey	though most are actually buttons
2020-07-28 20:02:25	Cadey	i'm considering moving the active url + metadata into the titlebar
2020-07-28 20:02:34	Cadey	gives more space for content that way
2020-07-28 20:03:04	lukee	I can see the advantages - then it feels like you're directly controlling the page URL
2020-07-28 20:03:23	tildebeast	ah. thought there was a gemini server on tilde.town. oops
2020-07-28 20:04:31		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-28 20:06:19	lukee	Cadey: just a thought, do you really need to show the mime type? might free up more space for the url?
2020-07-28 20:09:22	Cadey	lukee: probably not, but i don't have a place to expose that elsewhere yet
2020-07-28 20:15:30	lukee	but who really needs to know that info?
2020-07-28 20:15:46	Cadey	it helps when debugging the client
2020-07-28 20:15:50	lukee	(the client obviously yes)
2020-07-28 20:15:53	lukee	ok with you now
2020-07-28 20:16:31	@ben	tildebeast: were you thinking of tilde.team? there's a gemini server there
2020-07-28 20:16:47	@ben	mkdir ~/public_gemini
2020-07-28 20:19:37	tildebeast	thanks ben. do i need a default 'index.gmi' for it all to work?
2020-07-28 20:19:45	@ben	yeah that will do it
2020-07-28 20:19:48	@ben	cgi works too
2020-07-28 20:20:14	tildebeast	is there a delay for cron jobs or whatever, or will it just magically appear in geminispace?
2020-07-28 20:21:54	Cadey	one way to find out :D
2020-07-28 20:22:07	tildebeast	yeah, just put some gibberish in there and nothing's showing yet
2020-07-28 20:22:25	tildebeast	the suspense isn't killing me, but it's making me crave chips
2020-07-28 20:24:47	Cadey	also i've been considering making something like capcom but it would assemble weekly/monthly collections of posts into eBook files for offline reading with something like a kindle
2020-07-28 20:24:51	makeworld	If you're still using Amfora, make sure you reload to clear cache
2020-07-28 20:25:44	tildebeast	ah. was using ncgopher for this just because. will try amfora
2020-07-28 20:25:55	Cadey	tildebeast: i can check locally if you want
2020-07-28 20:26:20	tildebeast	Not to worry Cadey, it's up!
2020-07-28 20:26:23	tildebeast	Thanks anyway
2020-07-28 20:26:34	tildebeast	Now to think of some meaningful content for the ages...
2020-07-28 20:27:02	Cadey	you can do what i do and just post about whatever comes to mind
2020-07-28 20:27:17	tildebeast	that presupposes a mind :) but yes, will give it a go
2020-07-28 20:28:03	tildebeast	thanks all
2020-07-28 20:28:16	Cadey	tildebeast: if you need inspiration: gemini://cetacean.club/journal/
2020-07-28 20:28:27	tildebeast	i'll take a look. thanks!
2020-07-28 20:28:29	@ben	tildebeast: the homepage is cgi so it will show up if you have an index.gmi
2020-07-28 20:28:31	Cadey	no problem
2020-07-28 20:28:49	tildebeast	this gets better and better. liking the look of gemini
2020-07-28 20:29:02	@ben	Cadey: are you also on freenode#lobsters - your nick is familiar
2020-07-28 20:29:56	Cadey	yes
2020-07-28 20:30:09	Cadey	i regularly get to the top of lobste.rs lol
2020-07-28 20:31:50	@ben	ok cool, i'm benharri there
2020-07-28 20:32:06	@ben	i mostly just lurk in irc
2020-07-28 21:02:16	xj9	excited that my web viewer is ready enough to replace our old website
2020-07-28 21:03:31	xj9	now i get to port the whole thing to pycopy!
2020-07-28 21:07:40	makeworld	Hmm I never seen pycopy before
2020-07-28 21:08:54	makeworld	What's the point?
2020-07-28 21:11:22	xj9	the point of pycopy?
2020-07-28 21:11:42	xj9	similar to micropython (its a fork)
2020-07-28 21:12:29	xj9	the point for me is fun
2020-07-28 21:13:39	makeworld	What makes it fun? I've just never done anything like that
2020-07-28 21:15:19	companion_cube	is it a bytecode interpreters inside?
2020-07-28 21:15:25	xj9	i like working in minimal variants of a language
2020-07-28 21:16:27	xj9	in this case it means that i could run some of our stuff on a microcontroller instead of a proper computer at some point
2020-07-28 21:16:42	xj9	sort of a degrowth thing
2020-07-28 21:17:10	makeworld	Ah ok, that's cool
2020-07-28 21:17:21	xj9	and i'm not so far gone that i'm writing these things in FORTH (yet)
2020-07-28 21:17:34	makeworld	companion_cube: Pycopy is a separate implementation of the Python language spec
2020-07-28 21:17:50	makeworld	Like PyPy, or micropython, circuitpython, etc
2020-07-28 21:17:52	companion_cube	that doesn't answer my question ;)
2020-07-28 21:18:10	makeworld	Sorry lol
2020-07-28 21:18:39	makeworld	It doesn't just interpret bytecode, it also interprets Python
2020-07-28 21:19:05	makeworld	It probably also generates and interprets bytecode, but I don't know off hand
2020-07-28 21:21:47		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-28 21:27:13		creme has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-28 21:27:13		Ekkie has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-28 21:27:38	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 21:29:16		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-28 21:30:15	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 21:30:37		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-28 21:31:48		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-28 21:47:05		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-28 21:47:59		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-28 21:49:36	xj9	i remember reading about the internals, but i can't remember how it works exactly
2020-07-28 22:04:33	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 22:15:32	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 22:20:56	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 23:10:37	▬▬▶	osimplex has joined #gemini
2020-07-28 23:18:17		osimplex has left #gemini
2020-07-28 23:31:03	makeworld	tildebeast: I had already written about cancelling page loading in my notes, but I made an issue for it just now: https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/57
2020-07-28 23:31:10	makeworld	If you have anything to add, that would be the place
2020-07-29 00:37:07	makeworld	Amfora v1.4.0 released! Binaries uploading now
2020-07-29 00:37:08	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/releases/tag/v1.4.0
2020-07-29 00:38:44		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-29 00:49:18	Cadey	makeworld: do you think you could make amfora binaries on amd64 linux static binaries? (CGO_ENABLE=0 at build time)
2020-07-29 00:56:51	epoch	"The site-specific themes are automatically calculated based on a md5 hash of the domain" :) I used that trick in something else.
2020-07-29 01:34:59	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 01:36:13		vee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-29 01:36:18	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 02:05:00	makeworld	Cadey: They are static. Are you having an issue?
2020-07-29 02:05:23	Cadey	yeah they're not working on NixOS
2020-07-29 02:05:35	Cadey	i've been having to use the aarch64 binary with qemu as a stopgap
2020-07-29 02:06:47	makeworld	Weird...
2020-07-29 02:06:50	makeworld	What's the bug?
2020-07-29 02:07:08	makeworld	I gtg actually, but feel free to tell me here and I'll respond later. Or create an issue
2020-07-29 02:07:10	Cadey	the kernel throws a "file not found" error :D
2020-07-29 02:07:16	makeworld	For what file?
2020-07-29 02:07:36	Cadey	the amd64 binary
2020-07-29 02:07:53	makeworld	Hmm. What's the exact output?
2020-07-29 02:08:00	makeworld	Ok gtg sorry, I'll respond later
2020-07-29 03:14:28	makeworld	Cadey: What was the error exactly?
2020-07-29 05:14:54	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 05:18:25	rmgr	Howdy howdy
2020-07-29 05:36:04	rmgr	So has anybody played around with webring-type functionality?
2020-07-29 06:21:13	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 06:41:50		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-29 06:56:58	epoch	not really
2020-07-29 06:57:10		tadzik has left #gemini
2020-07-29 06:59:18	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 06:59:28	rmgr	Ive sort of been thinking about writing a simple gemring server
2020-07-29 07:21:04	kensanata	Is Spacewalk somehow misconfigured with regards to IPv6? I don't remember running into this before but right now Elpher is waiting until it runs into a timeout and then it gets the content via IPv4.
2020-07-29 09:14:08	cyflea	kensanata: not quite - I'm having an occasional problem where Elpher can't connect on IPv6 nor IPv4 and I have to restart emacs.
2020-07-29 09:14:10	⚡	cyflea shrugs
2020-07-29 09:41:31	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 09:47:01	kensanata	cyflea: Hm. I've had good luck so far...
2020-07-29 10:04:24	cyflea	ah, i just saw the exact behaviour you described, kensanata!
2020-07-29 10:06:29	kensanata	cyflea: Haha, now what?
2020-07-29 10:08:09	cyflea	it's just not listening on IPv6 from what i can see
2020-07-29 10:09:42	kensanata	Yeah, the problem is that rawbread.club has an AAAA record but nobody's listening... dig -t AAAA rawtext.club
2020-07-29 10:09:45	cyflea	(same thing with other, erm, popular but non-gemini ports)
2020-07-29 10:10:36	kensanata	telnet rawtext.club 1965
2020-07-29 10:10:36	kensanata	Trying 2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe0e:35a8...
2020-07-29 10:10:37	kensanata	...
2020-07-29 10:10:38	kensanata	...
2020-07-29 10:10:39	kensanata	...
2020-07-29 10:24:12	Cadey	kensanata: Use openssl s_client -connect
2020-07-29 10:26:01	cyflea	nah, doesn't matter. it should still connect on the port even though we can't talk TLS
2020-07-29 10:26:41	cyflea	(try "telnet -4 rawtext.club 1965" to see it work)
2020-07-29 10:27:11	kensanata	Yeah, after a while I switched to IPv4.
2020-07-29 10:27:23	kensanata	well, telnet switched to IPv4 automatically.
2020-07-29 10:52:55	epoch	nmap here is saying the IPv6 port 1965 is closed, but ipv4 is open
2020-07-29 10:53:10	epoch	(for rawtext.club)
2020-07-29 10:57:23	epoch	my ipv6 doesn't seem broken because a traceroute6 ends between hop 11 and 12
2020-07-29 10:58:45	epoch	I'm gonna bet there's a firewall blocking udp packets which is what makes the traceroute end early
2020-07-29 10:58:49	epoch	and ping6 still works
2020-07-29 10:59:23	epoch	whoever runs rawtext.club might want to double-check that port 1965 is passed through their firewall on IPv6 too
2020-07-29 10:59:38	epoch	and that their gemini daemon is actually listening on both Ipv4 and IPv6
2020-07-29 11:00:24	⚡	epoch puts two pennies on the table
2020-07-29 11:01:00	cyflea	indeed.
2020-07-29 11:01:57	⚡	natpen takes the pennies and buys an ice cream cone
2020-07-29 11:25:41	dkibi	Cadey: do you know anything about building go stuff on nixos? I could get bombadillo to run but not amfora
2020-07-29 11:26:41	Cadey	yeah, you use pkgs.buildGoModule (or just compile it with the go compiler manually), i'm gonna put some gemini stuff in my NUR repo later today
2020-07-29 11:29:54	dkibi	oh I didn't know nur
2020-07-29 12:32:01	kensanata	natpen: I bet taking two pennies to buy an ice cream cone is dating yourself.
2020-07-29 12:32:25	kensanata	I remember sour snakes or what ever they are called for 5 Swiss cents.
2020-07-29 12:35:10	kensanata	Switzerland has this weird system where the smallest coin in actual circulation is 5 cents.
2020-07-29 12:37:33	kensanata	Oh, official pictures of our coins! https://www.snb.ch/en/iabout/cash/id/cash_coins#t2
2020-07-29 12:42:23	kensanata	Ah, and Wikipedia beats everybody, once again...
2020-07-29 12:42:50	login	kensanata: many countries have the smallest coin in circulation beig 5 cents
2020-07-29 12:44:19	kensanata	login: All the denominations I knew as a kid have been taken over by the Euro, hence my impression that they have 1 cent coins "everywhere".
2020-07-29 12:45:25	kensanata	I guess the UK is still there with it's 1p...
2020-07-29 12:46:11	kensanata	When I was in Sweden, I don't think I saw a single coin in two weeks.
2020-07-29 12:46:53	natpen	Starting wth 5 cent coins is a really interesting idea! I've seen some hot takes on the US penny and how it's not even worth the cost/effort to produce them anymore. I wonder if the Swiss system is based on that same line of reasoning
2020-07-29 12:46:53	CommunistWolf	denmark still has its own currency too
2020-07-29 12:47:33	CommunistWolf	though the smallest coin is now the 50 øre
2020-07-29 12:49:07	kensanata	natpen: The 1¢ was taken out of circulation in 2007, the 2¢ was taken out of circulation in 1978.
2020-07-29 12:50:06	natpen	Also, if anyone wants to try out version 0.2ish of GUS threads, it got some upgrades over the past few days. gemini://gus.guru/threads
2020-07-29 12:50:17	kensanata	I remember a particular chain (Denner) having lots of prices ending in .99 instead of the typical .95 and they did in fact hand out 1¢ but it was understood to be a marketing gag and I don't know how other stores reacted to people paying with these coins. They probably all hated Denner for it.
2020-07-29 12:50:31	kensanata	Yay for threads.
2020-07-29 12:52:32	kensanata	natpen: Is there documentation for this, allowing us to reason about why a post is considered to be threading or not?
2020-07-29 12:52:41	natpen	still a few bugs constructing thread graphs in cases where people redesign their capsule's entire URL structure :sweats: but it's getting close to being ready for primetime, I think :P
2020-07-29 12:53:08	kensanata	People redesigning their stuff, unheard of! No discipline! Millenials, probably!!
2020-07-29 12:56:12	natpen	No real documentation, yet. The gist of it is that GUS now has some heuristics to determine if a given page is "post like" (oversimplifying, but think of this like "does the URL contain `/glog/` or `/gemlog/`? If so it's a post). And some heuristics to determine if a link between to pages is cross-capsule (this works the same way that backlinks do now, in distinguishing between the two types and giving more prominen
2020-07-29 12:56:12	natpen	ce to cross-capsule backlinks (which if I recall correctly was originally YOUR idea provided to me over email :P)). If both pages are posts, and the link between them is cross-capsule, then it be part of (or an entire) thread!
2020-07-29 12:58:17	login	sweden doesn't have anonymous payments any more
2020-07-29 12:58:26	login	the bank knows your salary, for e.g.
2020-07-29 12:59:49	kensanata	natpen: Thanks for the info. Yeah, my posts are all in a path containing /page/
2020-07-29 13:00:47	kensanata	login: I think my salary payment says "salary" on my bank account, but I wonder whether that's just the description my employer gives the transaction.
2020-07-29 13:02:50		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-29 13:06:55	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 13:16:27		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-29 13:26:43	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 13:37:35		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-29 14:16:18	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 14:22:28	dctrud	natpen: that looks nice. Checkin if there are any computer names things I missed there now
2020-07-29 14:24:43	natpen	dctrud: thanks! And yes, that was a good thread ^.^ I've been looking at it a LOT in my debugging of the thread construction logic LOL
2020-07-29 14:26:55	dctrud	heh - it was a nice surprise that several people replied :-)
2020-07-29 14:27:10	dctrud	I was assuming I'd be whispering into the void, but no!
2020-07-29 14:35:52	⚡	dctrud is excited someone named a computer after Tim Tams - they are tasty chocolate biscuits indeed
2020-07-29 14:42:26		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-29 15:53:14		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-29 16:20:12	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 16:38:31		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-29 16:57:20		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-29 17:13:22	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 17:27:27		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-29 17:28:19	Cadey	have people ever considered using HTTP's chunked encoding for streaming content over gemini? Think the chatlog for mozz.us
2020-07-29 17:31:38	Cadey	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunked_transfer_encoding
2020-07-29 17:58:36	xj9	nixos will throw file not found for dynamically linked binaries that are not built with nix
2020-07-29 18:00:43	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 18:15:40	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 18:22:53	makeworld	xj9: My binaries are statically linked though, they should be anyway
2020-07-29 18:24:34	makeworld	Uh oh, disabling CGO builds binaries differently...
2020-07-29 18:25:29	makeworld	Cadey: I think I found the issue with nix
2020-07-29 18:25:34	makeworld	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/62817082/how-does-cgo-enabled-affect-dynamic-vs-static-linking
2020-07-29 18:25:59	makeworld	CGO was enabled by default, I was wrong. I don't have any C in my dependencies, but the Go stdlib does
2020-07-29 18:26:24	makeworld	In the future I will build with CGO_ENABLED=0
2020-07-29 18:27:03	makeworld	Actually I'd like to confirm that was the issue first, get in touch if you can
2020-07-29 18:27:16	Cadey	i'm here
2020-07-29 18:27:22	Cadey	just fighting jenkins at work
2020-07-29 18:27:28	Cadey	i hate jenkins lol
2020-07-29 18:31:36	dkibi	the nix problem is quite strict: the problem is that even the dynamic linker path is different iirc
2020-07-29 18:32:53	makeworld	Oof
2020-07-29 18:36:50	makeworld	Cadey: When you have the time you can try this binary on Nix. Let me know if it works, and the v1.4.0 binary on Github doesn't. https://ttm.sh/QoY.bin
2020-07-29 18:37:06	makeworld	SHA256 should be 4572d500f8299ac52f59a6f75fd6c0a5c8f314725ad282035935096a1b6549da
2020-07-29 18:37:19	makeworld	Just in case it was a wonky upload
2020-07-29 18:42:54	Cadey	makeworld: it does
2020-07-29 18:43:08	Cadey	$ file ./QoY.bin
2020-07-29 18:43:10	Cadey	./QoY.bin: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, Go BuildID=njsio1aVwqpnbMz0moZg/Imy9GdTNkf4A4nVNQxGV/TzXQD0HZiHJJzF9ZpLBA/sv7bk3oFxVggPdi2m27A, not stripped
2020-07-29 18:43:18	Cadey	running it also launchers Amphora
2020-07-29 18:43:33	makeworld	Hmm, so that was the issue then. I will look a bit more into this, but unless there's a big reason not to then I will be disabling CGO for builds from now on
2020-07-29 18:50:54	makeworld	https://github.com/golang/go/issues/25670
2020-07-29 18:51:12	makeworld	It looks like there's a reason they use C in some cases, they think it's more robust
2020-07-29 18:51:44	makeworld	Part of me would rather keep CGO enabled, because I wonder if there will be more issues otherwise
2020-07-29 18:53:45	dkibi	it should be relatively straihtforward to upstream amfora to nixpkgs then prebuild binaries are not that useful imho
2020-07-29 19:02:31	makeworld	Yeah, that's what I'd prefer
2020-07-29 19:02:44	makeworld	I'm not really involved in Nix, but if someone else wants to put Amfora there that'd be great
2020-07-29 19:02:53	makeworld	I should really make an AUR package...
2020-07-29 19:06:45	dkibi	i have a package there and have been procastinating looking up the workflow again since my package is broken -.-
2020-07-29 22:22:30	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-07-29 22:30:10	southerntofu	oh noes @dancek is closing their pull request for Gemini support in Zola static site generator: https://github.com/getzola/zola/pull/1059 :s
2020-07-29 22:31:07	southerntofu	(in case this person is around here, you are not alone and if you need help/feedback for this feature i'm willing to get involved)
2020-07-29 23:57:48		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-30 00:12:26		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-30 00:36:19	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 01:25:35	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 02:52:16		rmgr has left #gemini
2020-07-30 02:52:37	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 03:13:41	Cadey	i may just end up making a gemini static site generator lol
2020-07-30 04:11:37	rmgr	What would be the advantage of a static site generator over just creating .gmi files by hand?
2020-07-30 04:12:17	Cadey	adding backlinks to the parent folder, automatic feed generation, programmatic page generation, etc
2020-07-30 04:12:51	Cadey	or is gemini a "back button navigation" kind of protocol
2020-07-30 05:07:27	rmgr	I mean I use the back button pretty liberally but I've added a back to index button on my posts by hand so I can see the value there
2020-07-30 06:41:47	southerntofu	that, and taxonomies support, as well as translations :)
2020-07-30 07:05:03	jan	I write my homepage in org-mode and export to markdown with ox-hugo, then I run zola (a SSG) to convert to HTML. Zola does not support other formats than html, but a org-mode to gemini-export should not be hard to write
2020-07-30 07:05:31	jan	and, eventually, org-mode to gopher(map)
2020-07-30 07:10:10	southerntofu	jan: i don't see a reason zola should only support HTML export in the future, if you're interested in gemini support please chime in on the forge (github) #1059 / #905
2020-07-30 07:10:40	jan	will do!
2020-07-30 07:11:53	southerntofu	i mean there's many interesting features zola already supports such as internal links, it would be sad to have to reimplmeent the same logic for every output format ;)
2020-07-30 07:13:07	jan	i totally agree
2020-07-30 07:35:54	rmgr	Could someone try hitting gemini://gemring.rmgr.dev:1964/1/next and see if you end up at gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw?
2020-07-30 07:37:50	jan	rmgr: does not work in ncgopher. I get a "Connection reset by peer"
2020-07-30 07:40:36	jan	hm. might be because of the non-standard port
2020-07-30 07:41:08	southerntofu	rmgr: the redirect works however bombadillo complains the URL is invalid, maybe because of the trailing slash in yourredirect URI?
2020-07-30 07:41:10	jan	i have to check that. thanks for pointing out a bug ;-)
2020-07-30 07:49:29	rmgr	jan: If it helps gemini://gem.rmgr.dev is the same machine on the same connection on the standard gemini port
2020-07-30 07:50:59	rmgr	Thanks for testing guys :)
2020-07-30 08:03:52	⚡	southerntofu is not "guys" but always happy to help, rmgr ;)
2020-07-30 08:06:59	rmgr	Apologies, peeps*
2020-07-30 08:08:27	southerntofu	no worries, on the internet everybody's a cat until proven otherwise
2020-07-30 09:18:41	rmgr	So I've been messing around with the issue with Bombadillo and it appears to be a problem with how the redirect URL is handled. I'm not sure if it's my end or Bombadillo's end though.. Looking at the code for Bombadillo it looks like it should work
2020-07-30 10:09:21	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 10:34:40	Cadey	i'll test with majc
2020-07-30 10:35:50	Cadey	rmgr: Error fetching response: IO(Os { code: 111, kind: ConnectionRefused, message: "Connection refused" }
2020-07-30 10:52:14	Cadey	also is that creating regular ebook volumes of gemlogs for offline consumption a half decent idea to anyone ele?
2020-07-30 10:52:17	Cadey	else*
2020-07-30 10:52:36	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 11:00:21	southerntofu	Cadey: yes that's an amazing idea
2020-07-30 11:00:45	southerntofu	i believe building a book/zine from your website should be a standard feature ;)
2020-07-30 11:20:09	hannu	southerntofu: hi :) yeah I started using my first name as nick on tildeverse. I'm @dancek on github.
2020-07-30 11:22:15	hannu	I got the feeling @Keats (the creator+maintainer of Zola) wasn't interested in the feature. I'm grateful for Zola as is and wouldn't like to cause any extra burden to the maintainer.
2020-07-30 11:23:39	hannu	It's been a while since I touched the code but I started out really optimistic, then slowly became disillusioned by how thoroughly Zola is designed for HTML.
2020-07-30 11:23:40	jan	mh.
2020-07-30 11:23:59	jan	does hugo support several output formats?
2020-07-30 11:25:03	hannu	IIRC yes. I couldn't stand the template language in Hugo so when I decided to write my own theme I switched from hugo to zola.
2020-07-30 11:25:59	southerntofu	hey hannu, great to see you here! how are you doing? :)
2020-07-30 11:26:41	hannu	It would be possible to just render zola/hugo markdown files to gemini. Even md2gemini supports stripping the front matters and I serve a dumb partial blog mirror over gemini with it.
2020-07-30 11:26:45	rmgr	Cadey: I took the server down because I was just running it from the shell as a test
2020-07-30 11:26:53	jan	zola works ok for me, but ox-hugo in emacs does not always work as good (which is not a surprise as its written for hugo and not zola)
2020-07-30 11:27:03	Cadey	ah
2020-07-30 11:27:16	jan	so i've more than once considered to port my site to hugo
2020-07-30 11:27:28	southerntofu	i have the same feeling as you, zola code is really readable but the logic of it isn't always very straightforward and everything was designed for HTML support only
2020-07-30 11:27:50	hannu	southerntofu: fine thanks! Someone spoke about SSGs on #gopher yesterday, which reminded me of zola. I wanted closure to the PR. :)
2020-07-30 11:28:04	jan	great to meet other people using zola, btw!
2020-07-30 11:28:06	southerntofu	hugo on the other hand has perfect handling of diferent formats, but the templating engine is a complete nightmare and the codebase isn't very friendly to me ^^"
2020-07-30 11:29:01	hannu	I never looked at the codebase for hugo because I never had to. But the handful of shortcodes I wrote were a pain.
2020-07-30 11:29:36	southerntofu	so while it would be quite an achievement to support gemini (and others) in zola i think that's only for the better: it will be the occasion to fix several design decisions in zola and make it more maintainable in the long run, at least that's my opinion and i'm willing to spend some time and mental energy on this, especially if we make it a team effort and can mutualize neurons to
2020-07-30 11:29:38	southerntofu	come up with cleverer solutions :D
2020-07-30 11:29:48	jan	i might try to port my custom theme to hugo. have to feel the pain myself
2020-07-30 11:30:11	@tomasino	Easy peasy! You got this! You're a star
2020-07-30 11:30:39	southerntofu	jan: i wish you the best, but last time i tried hugo i almost wrote an SSG myself, before finding out @Keats wrote zola precisely because hugo was INSANE
2020-07-30 11:31:40	southerntofu	tomasino: hello! we've all got this because we're all stars ;)
2020-07-30 11:31:44	jan	not that my theme is complicated
2020-07-30 11:32:00	@tomasino	My God... It's full of stars
2020-07-30 11:32:07	jan	hi tomasino.
2020-07-30 11:32:26	Cadey	but does this sentence make you breathe manually?
2020-07-30 11:33:29	@tomasino	I'm holding my breath to be antagonistic
2020-07-30 11:33:57	Cadey	that means i win :P
2020-07-30 11:34:09	hannu	southerntofu: that's a commendable idea. I'm happy to join with my unfortunately limited time if you (we?) can come up with a reasonable plan and convince @Keats it's a good idea.
2020-07-30 11:35:30	hannu	But I have the general feeling that maintaining Zola is not that fun for them right now, so I'm not sure how to go forward with ideas like this.
2020-07-30 11:38:41	southerntofu	yeah, it looks like a ton of very unrewarding work.. especially with all the weird corner-cases issues popping up all the time :)
2020-07-30 11:41:00	southerntofu	my perspective is that zola is undergoing major changes: translations were introduced some time ago (and will be reworked for fluent support), theming system just got radically enhanced and simplified, now there's discussion around whether the page/section distinction makes any sense (#687) and the unification of path representations (#977)
2020-07-30 11:41:34	southerntofu	so now is a good time to take a solid critical look at some other pieces that bother us, and try to see how we could make them both simpler and more flexible
2020-07-30 11:43:25	southerntofu	i'm sorry i was not involved in your PR or gemini support, i was busy with other things i didn't mean to let you down ;)
2020-07-30 11:44:32	southerntofu	(maybe this would be more fitted in a #zola chan, don't you think jan & hannu ?)
2020-07-30 11:44:42	djph	what's "zola" ?
2020-07-30 11:44:56	southerntofu	a static site generator
2020-07-30 11:45:22	hannu	I personally feel there's a lot of unnecessary complexity in Zola (and most SSGs) because they want to be simple for the end-user. In the end there are just files and their metadata and they're used to render pages. All groupings (sections, taxonomies, translations etc) are different facets of the same general concept.
2020-07-30 11:46:18	djph	and here I thought just writing *txt and passing them through a quick sed script was good enough
2020-07-30 11:46:44	kensanata	Hah
2020-07-30 11:46:59	hannu	If this discussion doesn't bother people here I'd like to keep it here. If an SSG for gemini is to be built, it would be nice to consider people's wishes for it.
2020-07-30 11:48:06	djph	I'm honestly not a "web-" anything guy beyond "I write static html, and I like it" ... is a "generator" really necessary?  Other than dealing with the whole "it's just one long line of text" weirdness
2020-07-30 11:48:24	hannu	djph: I'm also maintaining my gemini site with cat, sed, gemfeed, make and ansible. But I'd switch to a good SSG if one existed.
2020-07-30 11:48:48	jan	i think that cross-publishing is the real issue here.
2020-07-30 11:48:54	hannu	It tells a lot, though, that I have a build of zola that outputs gemini yet I still rather use make.
2020-07-30 11:49:07	jan	take a piece of text ang convert it to a gophermap, html and gemini files
2020-07-30 11:49:20	djph	hannu: honestly, I just wrote a shell script.  I called it "orbit".
2020-07-30 11:49:38	southerntofu	then you ust wrote what we call an SSG djph :)
2020-07-30 11:50:11	djph	just cleans up the (correct) formatting of line terminators every 72 characters, and then kicks it to my gemini box
2020-07-30 11:50:19	southerntofu	some SSGs allow exporting to multiple formats, using internal links and applying different content types, that's mostly why you would use an SSG instead of a simple Makefile
2020-07-30 11:50:40	jan	and automatic feed generation
2020-07-30 11:50:51	southerntofu	hannu: as long as nobody from #gemini complains we're having too much zola-specific talks.. ;)
2020-07-30 11:51:21	southerntofu	i agree with you there's some useful generalizations/abstractions that aren't explored in zola yet
2020-07-30 11:51:26	djph	Now, if I could only learn LaTeX / dvi internals enough to write a tex2gmi (dvi2gmi) processor
2020-07-30 11:51:35	southerntofu	and i believe they would make the maintenance a lot easier ;)
2020-07-30 11:53:11	djph	(with my luck, I'd have to learn emacs too ... blergh)
2020-07-30 11:54:24	southerntofu	so i'll try to find some time today or tomorrow to review your PR and provide some feedback
2020-07-30 11:58:04	kensanata	Emacs is the editor that keeps on giving.
2020-07-30 12:00:13	jan	;-)
2020-07-30 12:00:35	jan	that's why i'd like an org-mode to gemini export
2020-07-30 12:00:42	jan	and org-mode to gophermap
2020-07-30 12:01:10	jan	or org-mode -> md -> (gemini|gopher|html)
2020-07-30 12:01:21	kensanata	I just write gemtext directly.
2020-07-30 12:01:25	kensanata	So simple.
2020-07-30 12:01:43	kensanata	And the result is simple HTML when you go the other way.
2020-07-30 12:03:09	Cadey	i keep meaning to make a simple gemini -> HTML renderer for a HTTPS view of my capsule
2020-07-30 12:03:22	kensanata	Do it!
2020-07-30 12:03:29	kensanata	https://transjovian.org:1965/ is just that...
2020-07-30 12:04:15	kensanata	If you know how, you can get the raw gemtext via HTTP as well: https://transjovian.org:1965/raw/2020-07-29%20Deleting%20pages%20and%20files for example.
2020-07-30 12:04:20	Cadey	i'm gonna use my gruvbox css theme too a-la https://within.website
2020-07-30 12:04:21	kensanata	No frills.
2020-07-30 12:04:46	kensanata	Cadey: I like "Inquire within" :)
2020-07-30 12:05:10	Cadey	you are the first person to get that joke in 5 years
2020-07-30 12:07:41	kensanata	I did think olin seemed familiar and now I see the toki pona packages within x...
2020-07-30 12:08:18	Cadey	yep i'm that person
2020-07-30 12:08:29	Cadey	still working out how i want to do webassembly stuff from gemini
2020-07-30 12:08:41	kensanata	Looking at my cgit I'll note moku-pona, nimi-mute, sitelen-mute...
2020-07-30 12:09:03	Cadey	a! mi ken toki e toki pona
2020-07-30 12:09:19	kensanata	pona!
2020-07-30 12:09:34	kensanata	I didn't know what to use for wiki, though.
2020-07-30 12:09:53	Cadey	lipu sona mute
2020-07-30 12:09:58	Cadey	many learn documents
2020-07-30 12:11:12	kensanata	Hm, interesting.
2020-07-30 12:11:27	kensanata	Better than looking for speed or quick, for sure.
2020-07-30 12:12:18	Cadey	tawa tawa?
2020-07-30 12:13:04	kensanata	I like it.
2020-07-30 12:13:14	Cadey	a pona!
2020-07-30 12:14:22	Cadey	but yeah, after work today i'm gonna work on the ideas for the gemlog -> eBook building
2020-07-30 12:14:30	Cadey	idea*
2020-07-30 12:14:57	~tiwesdaeg	should be pretty simple to convert to epub
2020-07-30 12:15:26	Cadey	yeah, i was going to do gemini -> markdown (rust) and markdown -> epub (pandoc)
2020-07-30 12:15:44	Cadey	i built my text/gemini parser to enable this stuff
2020-07-30 12:16:07	~tiwesdaeg	pandoc is what I'd suggest
2020-07-30 12:16:43	Cadey	yeah, pandoc is how i made the eBook files for my other published books
2020-07-30 12:17:14	kensanata	The only epub stuff I made I made using ebook-convert from HTML.
2020-07-30 12:17:16	~tiwesdaeg	I could see some sort of gemini based periodical being published as epub
2020-07-30 12:18:06	~tiwesdaeg	converting to markdown seems like a much simpler process
2020-07-30 12:18:10	Cadey	i'd also have a kindle version (kindlegen is dead simple to use), might end up trying to figure out how to send attachments over email programmatically so i can have people get it in their inbox every week
2020-07-30 12:18:21	Cadey	"much simpler process" is an understatement lol
2020-07-30 12:19:15	~tiwesdaeg	there was a great manga service for a while that converted manga to mobi and emailed it to your kindle through a web interface
2020-07-30 12:19:21	Cadey	i have a function that takes in the gemtext and returns a list of nodes
2020-07-30 12:19:31	kensanata	I'd like to have an epub reader that doesn't look like iTunes or some other all-in-one-library-management-system like calibre.
2020-07-30 12:19:32	Cadey	tiwesdaeg: yeah that's the kind of thing i've been wanting to go for
2020-07-30 12:19:42	Cadey	kensanata: pandoc!
2020-07-30 12:20:40	~tiwesdaeg	I pretty much never read ebooks on a desktop/laptop
2020-07-30 12:21:05	Cadey	i have a kindle oasis for this stuff lol
2020-07-30 12:21:07	kensanata	Cadey: pandoc as a reader, not as a converter?
2020-07-30 12:21:11	~tiwesdaeg	and the phone only when I'm not hip on carrying around the big kindle
2020-07-30 12:21:17	Cadey	kensanata: convert to markdown, pipe to less
2020-07-30 12:21:40	~tiwesdaeg	I'd really love some sort of open source hardware e-ink reader
2020-07-30 12:21:46	Cadey	there is one
2020-07-30 12:22:00	Cadey	https://itsfoss.com/open-book/
2020-07-30 12:22:21	~tiwesdaeg	is that the one where a guy was working on plans to build your own?
2020-07-30 12:22:35	Cadey	the one with the detailed PCB instructions yeah
2020-07-30 12:23:01	~tiwesdaeg	yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of something like the pinephone
2020-07-30 12:23:40	~tiwesdaeg	pinereader, new ereader from pine64, bring your own OS!
2020-07-30 12:24:00	Cadey	~~and with native gemini support~~
2020-07-30 12:24:02	login	isn't pinephone, pinebook slow?
2020-07-30 12:24:11	kensanata	Cadey: Haha. No, I have the E-Book Viewer app which is part of calibre, but somehow my Firefox doesn't know about it so it only offers it in my default E-Book Editor... and so I end up confused when I haven't looked at epub stuff in a while.
2020-07-30 12:24:31	~tiwesdaeg	login: they're arm platforms
2020-07-30 12:24:51	Cadey	login: slow is a relative term
2020-07-30 12:25:19	~tiwesdaeg	pinebookpro looks pretty neat
2020-07-30 12:25:32	Cadey	also an eBook reader doesn't really need to be that fast
2020-07-30 12:25:37	~tiwesdaeg	nope
2020-07-30 12:26:12	~tiwesdaeg	I'd really like a 10" color e-ink reader for cheap
2020-07-30 12:26:56	Cadey	the PCB is a work of art though: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/joeycastillo/The-Open-Book/master/images/book-rev5.jpg
2020-07-30 12:26:57	~tiwesdaeg	I feel like e-ink devices have very very slow progression times
2020-07-30 12:28:06	rmgr	I'd love an open e-ink tablet
2020-07-30 12:28:24	rmgr	I feel like Pine did mention the idea in a blog at some point
2020-07-30 12:29:45	~tiwesdaeg	I'll even take a grayscale only version
2020-07-30 12:30:02	~tiwesdaeg	something about the larger e-ink displays demand a high price
2020-07-30 12:30:36	Cadey	yeah
2020-07-30 12:32:29	~tiwesdaeg	https://www.tindie.com/products/joeycastillo/the-open-book-pcb-bare-pcb/
2020-07-30 12:32:35	~tiwesdaeg	soldering required
2020-07-30 12:33:59	Cadey	overall it's a surprisingly cheap build
2020-07-30 12:34:22	~tiwesdaeg	sourcing components individually can add up
2020-07-30 12:34:28	Cadey	15 + 35 + 28, 68 dollars about?
2020-07-30 12:36:00	~tiwesdaeg	I always hate trying to buy specific resistors, caps, etc...
2020-07-30 12:36:15	~tiwesdaeg	I'll find one on one website and another elsewhere
2020-07-30 12:36:20	~tiwesdaeg	so shipping adds up
2020-07-30 12:37:50	~tiwesdaeg	ok, I read the instructions a bit more
2020-07-30 12:38:45	~tiwesdaeg	looks like you can get all the components from digikey
2020-07-30 12:46:20	djph	kensanata: emacs is a great OS.  Needs a good editor though.
2020-07-30 12:46:28	Cadey	djph: evil-mode
2020-07-30 12:47:09	djph	Cadey: but why go through the heartache of learning emacs in the first place :P
2020-07-30 12:47:16	Cadey	djph: org-mode
2020-07-30 12:47:26	kensanata	djph: Pfff. Evolution gave most of us ten fingers and ten toes, plus a nose. That's more than enough to use Emacs!
2020-07-30 12:47:59	djph	kensanata: now, if 'ctrl' was still up where 'capslock' is today, there might be something to say about emace
2020-07-30 12:48:06	djph	*emacs' key combos
2020-07-30 12:48:15	⚡	djph would still sooner learn ed
2020-07-30 12:48:24	kensanata	djph: You haven't remapped Caps Lock to Compose Key?
2020-07-30 12:48:28	Cadey	i use a combination of emacs and vim keybinds in practice
2020-07-30 12:48:42	Cadey	it's vim motions and M-x type-shit for me :D
2020-07-30 12:49:10	djph	kensanata: I haven't needed to, since I don't use emacs :P
2020-07-30 12:49:34	kensanata	🤔
2020-07-30 12:49:56	djph	'box' ?
2020-07-30 12:50:06	~tiwesdaeg	nano 5.0 was just released ;P
2020-07-30 12:50:12	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 12:50:15	⚡	djph would rather use emacs than nano.
2020-07-30 12:51:26	easeout	same, Cadey. emacs keys just work lots of places, and vim does my heavy lifting
2020-07-30 12:52:38	easeout	however i do use my caps lock key as control. caps lock seems like a waste of a home row key.
2020-07-30 12:52:49	@julienxx	Hello geminauts!
2020-07-30 12:53:21	@julienxx	natpen: I noticed Gus does not handle queries starting with a number properly ie. "9front". It seems like it's treated as 9 and front.
2020-07-30 12:56:07	~tiwesdaeg	9front #soon How is the project coming along julienxx?
2020-07-30 12:56:27	@julienxx	still #soon :p
2020-07-30 12:56:45	@julienxx	I have quite a lot of corporate work these days
2020-07-30 13:00:51	~tiwesdaeg	darn corporations
2020-07-30 13:02:17	@julienxx	I work in music education tools so summer vacations are usually our busiest period where we release big stuff before kids are back to school
2020-07-30 13:04:21	tildebeast	lost my link to deedum's repo, can anyone remind me where it's hosted please?
2020-07-30 13:23:16		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-30 13:27:15	tildebeast	found it
2020-07-30 13:45:32	jan	julianxx: cool that you are into e-learing. I'm as well :)
2020-07-30 13:45:56	jan	and I agree: summers tend to be quite busy, school starts soon
2020-07-30 13:53:35	@julienxx	jan: oh nice, what do you teach?
2020-07-30 13:54:16	jan	well, I don't teach, but I create tools for e-learning used by publishers
2020-07-30 13:54:48	jan	more technical stuff, less content production itself
2020-07-30 13:55:09	@julienxx	pretty cool
2020-07-30 14:00:16		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-30 14:35:44	Cadey	i've been putting my DnD homebrew content on my sattelite
2020-07-30 14:35:56	Cadey	capsule*
2020-07-30 14:48:54		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-30 15:21:31	⚡	omni was thinking "of course Cadey is hosting something on her cubesat.."
2020-07-30 15:28:28	Cadey	omni: a gemini site hosted on a sattelite would be amazing lol
2020-07-30 15:47:30	siina	Yes!
2020-07-30 15:49:54	southerntofu	hannu: just reviewed your patch for zola, it's good work! there's a few missing pieces, such as trying to find templates with the same names but another extension automatically (instead of having to choose between HTML and gemini output in the frontmatter) but you already did most of the job i believe :)
2020-07-30 15:50:10	xj9	y'all have a cubesat omg
2020-07-30 15:50:12	xj9	that's rad
2020-07-30 15:50:57	southerntofu	i'll try running your branch on a test site, and fork it on tildegit.org if you're still happy to hack on it (cc jan)
2020-07-30 15:55:12	Cadey	xj9: i don't
2020-07-30 15:55:20	Cadey	apparently i have a reputation lol
2020-07-30 15:57:11	hannu	southerntofu: yeah, I pretty much stopped when I realized @Keats isn't very keen to merge it whatever I do.
2020-07-30 15:59:13	southerntofu	yeah i can see this, i had this feeling more than once with Keats in the past, but a few days ago he asked me to help him on the project ("join the zola org" in his terms) so i feel like we're slowly building some trust
2020-07-30 15:59:24	southerntofu	also we can maintain our fork for the tildeverse to serve as a testbed for a while :)
2020-07-30 15:59:52	southerntofu	i know some folks on ~fr who would love to try out a gemini patch for their zola blogs :D
2020-07-30 16:02:13	hannu	Hmm. I'll try to re-read my code and proposals later tonight and see if I'll find the motivation to continue soon
2020-07-30 16:02:15	hannu	I'ts
2020-07-30 16:02:46	hannu	It's my 10th wedding anniversary tomorrow though so gonna be a couple of days before anything major <3
2020-07-30 16:11:47	makeworld	Amfora on an old terminal setup 😮
2020-07-30 16:11:51	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/going-flying.com/files/vfd-prompt.jpg?raw=1
2020-07-30 16:11:55	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/going-flying.com/files/vfd-verks.jpg?raw=1
2020-07-30 16:12:06	makeworld	Pics are from this post: gemini://going-flying.com/~mernisse/01.gmi
2020-07-30 16:13:37	makeworld	It obv. doesn't work super well, but it's super cool to me it's being used like that at all
2020-07-30 16:13:48	makeworld	Honestly I would suggest Bombadillo for terminals like that lol
2020-07-30 16:18:17	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 16:18:26	isvarahparamahkrsnah	hello
2020-07-30 16:20:39	makeworld	Hello!
2020-07-30 16:48:59	southerntofu	hannu: happy anniversary! sure that's a higher priority than any SSG hack, zola can wait ;)
2020-07-30 17:58:42	djph	hannu: congrate :)
2020-07-30 17:58:46	djph	*congrats, even
2020-07-30 18:09:28		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-30 18:34:25	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 18:50:23	login	10 years -- nice!
2020-07-30 20:42:47	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 21:07:27	Cadey	gonna go look at hacking up the gemlog2ebook pipeline
2020-07-30 21:22:11	⚡	Cadey mkdir karnycukta
2020-07-30 21:58:49		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-30 22:03:49	▬▬▶	somasis has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 22:39:32	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-30 22:58:49		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 00:19:05	rmgr	gemlog2ebook sounds cool
2020-07-31 00:50:28		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-31 02:30:05	Cadey	rmgr: yeah, i'm working on the processes for grabbing the eBook files, translating it to markdown and then creating an ePub file using pandoc. probably going to have weekly volumes and have an option to have it emailed to an address of your choosing in kindle format so you can have new issues automatically uploaded to your kindle every week
2020-07-31 02:45:57	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 02:53:51	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 06:26:15		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-31 06:26:45	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 09:16:47	djph	Cadey: isn't 'kindle format' *mobi ?
2020-07-31 10:07:31	Cadey	djph: With kindlegen, all things are easy
2020-07-31 10:11:24	djph	Cadey: ah! been reading the thing going "... wait since when does pandoc do ..."
2020-07-31 10:32:19	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 10:32:29	lukee	hi folks
2020-07-31 10:33:04	lukee	just back from a few hours at the coal face having fun with some gemini hacking
2020-07-31 10:34:19	lukee	I've put together a new Go library to convert html to gemini
2020-07-31 10:34:21	lukee	https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gemini
2020-07-31 10:34:54	lukee	and there is also a practical command line app that wraps it
2020-07-31 10:35:13	lukee	https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi-cli
2020-07-31 11:21:32	▬▬▶	vee` has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 11:22:04		vee` has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 11:46:19	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/journal/07-31-2020-newsbook.gmi thoughts?
2020-07-31 11:48:35	lukee	hi Cadey
2020-07-31 11:48:48	lukee	I had a look at your post - seems handy
2020-07-31 11:49:13	@tomasino	hiya all
2020-07-31 11:49:46	Cadey	hi tomasino
2020-07-31 11:49:52	@tomasino	how does it?
2020-07-31 11:50:02	@tomasino	goes?
2020-07-31 11:50:03	lukee	my only thought is that perhaps there would be a way to merge multiple feeds. Since some folk wont be publishing too often but would still be good to merge into a book of "this months writing" or what have you
2020-07-31 11:50:04	@tomasino	words
2020-07-31 11:50:39	@tomasino	i bought a tiny little iron
2020-07-31 11:50:50	Cadey	lukee: i've got this rigged up so i specify the number of days to look back in the feed, i may end up doing a monthly volume too
2020-07-31 11:51:02	lukee	tomasino: to iron a tiny little shirt?
2020-07-31 11:51:09	@tomasino	sewing projects
2020-07-31 11:51:31	@tomasino	it's important to iron seams and such. things are much harder without ironing
2020-07-31 11:51:43	@tomasino	Cadey, how's it looking with the preformatted stuff?
2020-07-31 11:51:56	Cadey	i need to do a test render to pandoc, but surprisingly decent
2020-07-31 11:52:03	@tomasino	when i tried to generate cosmic.voyage into an ebook the font size i ended up with to allow 80 columns was tiiiiiiny
2020-07-31 11:52:55	@tomasino	i've got a manual A4 volume that's halfway laid out now, but it's so tedious
2020-07-31 11:53:50	lukee	tomasino: I have a smallish iron like this: https://amzn.to/30fWJTN
2020-07-31 11:56:44	Cadey	https://xena.greedo.xeserv.us/files/flightjournal
2020-07-31 11:58:59	Cadey	this is like the most naiive of naiive attempts lol
2020-07-31 11:59:10	lukee	all software starts this way
2020-07-31 12:00:36	@tomasino	https://www.euronics.ee/t-en/54194/home-appliances/travel-iron-electrolux-800-w/edbt800
2020-07-31 12:01:21	@tomasino	test run looks great Cadey 
2020-07-31 12:03:14	lukee	tomasino - looks like you could iron more than just seams with that. I thought you might be talking about something like this: https://amzn.to/39HHypr
2020-07-31 12:03:38	@tomasino	aww, that is adorable!
2020-07-31 12:04:19	Cadey	i'll probably send an email to the list once it's less hacky
2020-07-31 12:04:25	@tomasino	awesometown
2020-07-31 12:04:57	@tomasino	i hope the list settles on something cool that utilizes streaming. It's got so many possibilities
2020-07-31 12:05:11	@tomasino	even if it's just a stream/gemini mime type or something instead of text/gemini
2020-07-31 12:05:20	@tomasino	text/gemini-stream ?
2020-07-31 12:05:22	@tomasino	whatever
2020-07-31 12:05:25	Cadey	i'm looking at implementing streaming using HTTP chunked encoding
2020-07-31 12:05:37	lukee	I'd be fine with some other mime type, just not in the core protocol
2020-07-31 12:05:37	Cadey	you know where it's like <number of bytes><bytes>\r\n
2020-07-31 12:05:55	@tomasino	ooooh, i see
2020-07-31 12:05:56	@tomasino	that's neat
2020-07-31 12:06:33	@tomasino	handling all things as a stream seems overkill, but the gemtext format is so perfectly suited to it. It would be a shame to not take advantage
2020-07-31 12:07:06	lukee	there are so many things gemtext is good for IMO
2020-07-31 12:07:35	lukee	really the spec should split into the protocol bit and the markup format bit
2020-07-31 12:07:50	Cadey	^
2020-07-31 12:08:09	@tomasino	beyond just sections, you mean? yeah. that was recommended to solderpunk early on and he just made gemtext its own section instead of its own document
2020-07-31 12:08:38	lukee	simplicity is a virtue though
2020-07-31 12:08:41	@tomasino	i think gemtext itself would be the bigger beneficiary of a true split. Shove that collection of good ideas into other projects
2020-07-31 12:09:46	lukee	I also think ANSI enhanced stuff should be a new format like text/gemini+x-ansi
2020-07-31 12:11:58	lukee	I guess the advantage of having the text format in with the protocol is that is really neatly sets the boundary of what is Gemini
2020-07-31 12:12:19	@tomasino	clients must support X at minimum is nice
2020-07-31 12:12:26	lukee	other extensions to the markup or protocol are related but outside
2020-07-31 12:12:28	@tomasino	especially when X is easy
2020-07-31 12:13:30	lukee	otherwise there can  be a fragmentation where clients and servers cherry pick from the options
2020-07-31 12:13:59	@tomasino	mmhmm, we've had some close calls on fragmentation already with mercury and gemini+write/titan stuff
2020-07-31 12:14:32	lukee	I dont think mercury was serious contender, just a thought experiment
2020-07-31 12:15:03	lukee	but I think there is a gap on content submission
2020-07-31 12:15:20	@tomasino	this is where i contribute
2020-07-31 12:15:27	@tomasino	i write stuff not about gemini! :)
2020-07-31 12:15:54	lukee	yes you do, I sort of meant content submission in a client server sense
2020-07-31 12:16:17	@tomasino	oh, push data up-wise
2020-07-31 12:16:22	lukee	at the moment it is very asymmetric clients are really just consumers
2020-07-31 12:16:43	@tomasino	yep yep yep. i'm cool with that, personally
2020-07-31 12:17:02	lukee	and the input type is very limited to static queries
2020-07-31 12:17:11	lukee	for me this is a gap
2020-07-31 12:18:11	lukee	even the early days of both gopher  and the web had a non-idempotent content submission mechanism. Gopher sent content following a <tab> and Web had POST
2020-07-31 12:19:14	@tomasino	i think we have something on par with gopher presently
2020-07-31 12:19:33	lukee	yes, where gopher ended up
2020-07-31 12:19:59	lukee	but before gopher got URLs it had a non-cacheable content submission mechanism
2020-07-31 12:20:12	lukee	so we are gopher- at the moment
2020-07-31 12:22:51	lukee	I would like to see something simple like what gopher had. Maybe <url><space><encoded submission>crlf
2020-07-31 12:25:30	@tomasino	Cadey: gemini client in v? ;)
2020-07-31 12:26:12	⚡	Cadey .-.
2020-07-31 12:27:52	@tomasino	hehe
2020-07-31 12:30:40		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 12:32:34	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 12:35:14		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-31 12:38:44		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 12:43:35	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 13:15:00	companion_cube	downloads itself in <1s!
2020-07-31 14:02:13	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 14:58:30		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-31 15:01:19	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 15:57:48	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 16:09:32		rb100 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-31 16:10:40	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 16:16:08		rb100 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-07-31 16:34:24		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 17:04:02	Cadey	yay static file serving!
2020-07-31 17:04:06	Cadey	[2020-07-31T17:03:38Z INFO  maj::server] 127.0.0.1:59080: gemini://maj.local.cetacean.club/static/ Success text/gemini
2020-07-31 17:06:30	companion_cube	in the spirit of websocketd, there should be a geminid :p
2020-07-31 17:18:45	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 17:42:20		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 17:43:11	Cadey	is there a common logging format for gemini like there is with apache?
2020-07-31 18:04:34	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 18:45:42	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 18:45:48		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 18:48:09	@tomasino	nope
2020-07-31 18:48:45	@tomasino	some folks were discussing it in the ML a while back, but mostly about ways to store useful data for debuging and preventing abuse without being too nosy
2020-07-31 19:43:34	Cadey	i'm gonna do `{remote-ip}: {url} {status-code-text} {meta}` for now
2020-07-31 19:45:39	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 19:50:57		wangofett has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 21:38:22	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 21:55:15		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-07-31 23:14:20		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 23:14:37	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-07-31 23:15:32		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-07-31 23:31:35		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-01 02:16:05	ℹ 	somasis is now known as a
2020-08-01 02:16:22	ℹ 	a is now known as i
2020-08-01 02:18:17	ℹ 	i is now known as somasis
2020-08-01 03:49:13		dozens has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 03:57:19	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 04:54:03	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 06:33:42		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 08:06:34		cyflea has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-01 08:10:45	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 08:13:46	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 08:30:38		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-01 09:31:00	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 11:03:30	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 11:40:57		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-01 13:02:02		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-01 13:13:22	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 13:16:59		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-01 13:18:04	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 13:25:52		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-01 13:26:21	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 13:45:29	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 14:17:10		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-01 14:19:46	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 14:34:39		creme has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-01 14:34:39		Ekkie has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-01 14:36:41	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 14:39:51	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 15:04:26		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-01 15:09:17		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-01 15:09:27	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 15:11:10	@ben	julienxx: have you had any issues building asuka on ubuntu 18.04? https://ttm.sh/Qrm.txt
2020-08-01 15:11:20	@ben	looks like some kind of ssl error?
2020-08-01 15:36:44	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 15:44:05		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-01 16:00:48	Cadey	ben: install the openssl library?
2020-08-01 16:04:53	login	asuka is named after?
2020-08-01 16:09:59		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 16:10:24	makeworld	Cadey: I assume you'll release the epub as well? It's much more portable than mobi, I think
2020-08-01 16:10:50	makeworld	Also I was thinking about writing a mastodon bot that announces gemlog posts. Thoughts?
2020-08-01 16:14:34	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 16:23:55	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 16:38:28		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 16:43:01		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-01 16:50:50	xfnw	epub is cooool
2020-08-01 16:50:53	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 16:53:31	isvarahparamahkrsnah	i like epub
2020-08-01 16:53:38	isvarahparamahkrsnah	i have a collection of epubs to read
2020-08-01 16:54:00	⚡	xfnw likes calibre and is sad its still on python2
2020-08-01 16:54:38	acdw	yall talking about Cadey's idea to epubify geminispce?
2020-08-01 16:55:52	makeworld	Epub good
2020-08-01 16:55:52	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 16:56:01	makeworld	acdw: Yes
2020-08-01 16:56:17	makeworld	I said above, before you joined: Cadey: I assume you'll release the epub as well? It's much more portable than mobi, I think
2020-08-01 16:57:00	makeworld	> Also I was thinking about writing a mastodon bot that announces gemlog posts. Thoughts?
2020-08-01 16:57:28	acdw	oh awesome. I don't use epub but only b/c I haven't found a reader I really like
2020-08-01 16:57:48	acdw	I like the masto bot idea! I agree with solderpunk in their pikkulog about getting permission tho
2020-08-01 16:58:12	acdw	I looove the idea of having physical books of geminispace, like the Library of Congress archiving every tweet but like, waay better
2020-08-01 16:58:21	acdw	like Lo-Fi magazine printing their issues
2020-08-01 16:59:00	makeworld	Yeah it's cool. The Gemini zine!!
2020-08-01 16:59:06	acdw	ZIINE
2020-08-01 16:59:08	makeworld	Where did solderpunk mention permission?
2020-08-01 16:59:08	acdw	I love zines
2020-08-01 16:59:09	makeworld	Yessss
2020-08-01 16:59:28	acdw	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk/pikkulog/2020-07.gmi
2020-08-01 16:59:31	acdw	first thing there
2020-08-01 16:59:50	acdw	and this is where I see that using emacs for IRC *and* gemini browsing would be super handy
2020-08-01 17:00:01	acdw	I just have to figure out how to configure ERC
2020-08-01 17:00:25	makeworld	It sounds like he's saying that each author having to ask to be included would be a "misgiving"
2020-08-01 17:00:49	makeworld	I was thinking my bot would be opt-out, which I know isn't great but there won't be any content otherwise
2020-08-01 17:00:59	Cadey	 makeworld yes
2020-08-01 17:01:05		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 17:01:05	Cadey	of course i will
2020-08-01 17:01:14	Cadey	i've just been busy with work lol
2020-08-01 17:01:23	makeworld	All good, glad to hear it!
2020-08-01 17:01:34	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 17:05:17	acdw	awesome :)
2020-08-01 17:05:47	Cadey	i'm getting close to being able to host my own sattelite using the maj server framework
2020-08-01 17:05:54	acdw	And I think opt-out is okay, so long as it's well-documented and people know they're about to be re-hosted
2020-08-01 17:06:08	acdw	I'd suggest a ML post
2020-08-01 17:06:16		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 17:06:20	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 17:06:34	makeworld	Yeah, I'll do that then thanks
2020-08-01 17:06:57	acdw	Cadey: awesome! So maj is a server *and* a client? Or it's a framework you can wrap either way?
2020-08-01 17:07:02	acdw	makeworld :)
2020-08-01 17:07:30	Cadey	it's a server framework and a client framework with child projects for other things too
2020-08-01 17:07:57	acdw	oh awesome! I'll have to check it out ... eventually ... when I have *any* free time lol
2020-08-01 17:08:06	Cadey	it's also very not documented
2020-08-01 17:08:14	Cadey	but i've been working more on getting it working lol
2020-08-01 17:08:54	acdw	haha I know that feeling
2020-08-01 17:18:07	isvarahparamahkrsnah	hellu
2020-08-01 17:18:13	acdw	hi :)
2020-08-01 17:18:15	acdw	lol
2020-08-01 17:27:19		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 17:27:27	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 17:28:51		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 17:32:12	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 17:34:09	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 17:40:27		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 17:42:16	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 17:42:29	ℹ 	acdw is now known as acdw-is-cool
2020-08-01 17:42:53	ℹ 	acdw-is-cool is now known as acdw
2020-08-01 17:43:54		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 17:46:16	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 17:52:04	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 18:48:05		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 19:37:41		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 20:44:33	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 20:57:38		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-01 21:17:33	Cadey	i have a terrible idea
2020-08-01 21:17:43	Cadey	what if we put user agents in the fragment part of the URL?
2020-08-01 21:19:30		vee has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 21:19:35	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 21:27:06	makeworld	Cadey: Ughh lol
2020-08-01 21:27:18	makeworld	But also, fragments aren't supposed to be sent to the server I thought
2020-08-01 21:27:19	Cadey	how terrible is that idea lol
2020-08-01 21:27:32		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-01 21:27:56	makeworld	Yes ok I checked, fragments aren't sent to the server
2020-08-01 21:28:01	makeworld	Lol
2020-08-01 21:28:14	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 21:35:12	Cadey	wellllllll
2020-08-01 21:35:21	Cadey	fragments aren't sent with standard HTTP clients
2020-08-01 21:36:03	Cadey	also what's the best practice for changing the TLS cert of a gemini node?
2020-08-01 21:36:32	Sario	I think we're still trying to figure that out
2020-08-01 21:37:07	makeworld	Wait until the previous one expires is the best advice I have
2020-08-01 21:37:29	makeworld	I generate one based on community recommendations, so 5 years and EC keys I think
2020-08-01 21:37:40	makeworld	*and generate
2020-08-01 21:53:33	Cadey	! i think i just got it working
2020-08-01 21:53:43	Cadey	cetacean.club is being served with my own server
2020-08-01 21:53:55	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/dice <-- example dynamic route
2020-08-01 21:54:35	@julienxx	ben: it used to work. Which rust and OpenSSL version do you have?
2020-08-01 21:55:26	@julienxx	login: Asuka comes from here https://patlabor.fandom.com/wiki/ASUKA-MPL-96
2020-08-01 21:56:40	@julienxx	Followed the “trend” started by AV-98
2020-08-01 22:25:30	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-01 22:25:37	lukee	evening all
2020-08-01 22:42:51	⚡	lukee watches the tumbleweed roll past...
2020-08-01 22:51:55	Cadey	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/cetacean.club/journal/08-01-2020-hosted-with-maj.gmi
2020-08-01 22:52:39	lukee	Cadey: why post via proxy?
2020-08-01 22:53:18	Cadey	because i copied the wrong link lol
2020-08-01 22:53:23	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/journal/08-01-2020-hosted-with-maj.gmi
2020-08-01 22:53:38	lukee	Congrats with the self-hosting
2020-08-01 22:53:45	lukee	its a major milestone
2020-08-01 22:53:56	Cadey	yeah :D
2020-08-01 22:54:03	Cadey	at some level i'm just wondering what i messed up lol
2020-08-01 22:54:11	Cadey	i'm pretty sure i made this code robust
2020-08-01 22:54:14	Cadey	but i guess we'll find out
2020-08-01 22:54:22	lukee	well it all looks ok to me via GemiNaut
2020-08-01 22:55:11	Cadey	i'm also considering making the site serve itself over gopher and http
2020-08-01 22:55:54	lukee	on the one hand why not
2020-08-01 22:56:09	lukee	on the other hand, its nice to have content that brings folk into Gemini
2020-08-01 22:57:08	lukee	how would you implement your input box for the dice roll in http?
2020-08-01 22:59:17	makeworld	Cadey: It'd be nice if you added a link on the dice rolling page. Nice though
2020-08-01 22:59:25	makeworld	Like a link back to /dice
2020-08-01 22:59:41	Cadey	yeah i thought i did
2020-08-01 22:59:48	Cadey	oh
2020-08-01 22:59:50	Cadey	LOL
2020-08-01 22:59:52	Cadey	i typoed something
2020-08-01 23:01:34	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/dice?3d6
2020-08-01 23:01:43	lukee	would be nice to document the syntax for the dice roll. I know the prompt has a regex thing, but its pretty opaque
2020-08-01 23:02:27	Cadey	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice_notation
2020-08-01 23:02:32	Cadey	it's a fairly standard format
2020-08-01 23:02:59	lukee	for RPGers
2020-08-01 23:03:08	lukee	not ordinary humans ;)
2020-08-01 23:03:25	lukee	well anyway a link to that page is good enough
2020-08-01 23:04:57	makeworld	Yeah some examples would be nice. I knew what you were getting at but it's confusing
2020-08-01 23:05:25	Cadey	just need to redeploy the site, sec
2020-08-01 23:05:44	Cadey	should be back
2020-08-01 23:06:06	Cadey	...if i can build the right thing lol
2020-08-01 23:06:19	lukee	hi makeworld: hows things with you?
2020-08-01 23:06:29	makeworld	Not bad, hbu?
2020-08-01 23:06:32	Cadey	there
2020-08-01 23:07:15	lukee	good thanks - getting more of my teeth into Go recently
2020-08-01 23:07:31	makeworld	Wrote some code for Toronto Mesh today, I'm about to work on adding a progress bar flag to gemget
2020-08-01 23:07:36	makeworld	Oh nice :)
2020-08-01 23:07:50	makeworld	Have you see gobyexample.com yet?
2020-08-01 23:08:23	makeworld	Or the official Go tour? That's good too
2020-08-01 23:09:25	lukee	I have this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Programming-Language-Addison-Wesley-Professional-Computing/dp/0134190440
2020-08-01 23:09:54	lukee	otherwise Google usually finds what I need, plus reading other peoples source.
2020-08-01 23:10:17	lukee	I'm just at the stage where I have enough knowledge to be dangerous, but not quite confident yet
2020-08-01 23:11:23	lukee	I'm pleased with my HTML -> Gemini converter, which I even managed to package as a standalone app that can take piped input
2020-08-01 23:11:54	Cadey	i've actually been a go user for about 8 years and have gravitated over to rust
2020-08-01 23:12:56	lukee	I'm sure rust is more powerful, but too much of a leap for me right now
2020-08-01 23:14:21	Cadey	fair
2020-08-01 23:14:30	Cadey	just be prepared for go modules to gaslight you
2020-08-01 23:14:50	lukee	huh - not even got into go modules ye :)
2020-08-01 23:14:54	lukee	ye -> yet
2020-08-01 23:15:12	Cadey	it's bad in really subtle ways lol
2020-08-01 23:15:23	lukee	what is the point of them?
2020-08-01 23:15:33	Cadey	to give go a dependency management tool
2020-08-01 23:15:36	Cadey	and if it was just that
2020-08-01 23:15:39	Cadey	it would be half decent
2020-08-01 23:15:48	Cadey	but in true go fashion, it's more and less at once
2020-08-01 23:16:04	Cadey	one of the biggest problems is semantic import versioning
2020-08-01 23:16:16	lukee	I thought go get pulls in dependencies, but I suppose it doesnt do much with versioning
2020-08-01 23:16:33	Cadey	or when your package reaches version 2, you need to rewrite the go.mod file to declare your package as repo.host/org/name/v2
2020-08-01 23:16:44	Cadey	and every single user needs to update their imports to match
2020-08-01 23:16:59	Cadey	and if they mix v1 and v2, then users can have both implementations in the same binary
2020-08-01 23:17:10	Cadey	which can cause very subtle issues in weird and unexpected places
2020-08-01 23:17:21	lukee	urgh sounds like dll-hell
2020-08-01 23:17:27	Cadey	oh it's worse
2020-08-01 23:17:31	lukee	this made me laugh today gemini://gemlog.blue/users/acdw/1596226708.gmi
2020-08-01 23:17:35	Cadey	it's a chilling effect
2020-08-01 23:19:27	lukee	is there any other approach for dependency management in Go, apart from just like forking the repos yourself and binding to your own copies
2020-08-01 23:24:10	login	Are you looking for the go-package-manager?
2020-08-01 23:25:05	Cadey	lukee: all the options are garbage, but go modules is somehow the least garbage
2020-08-01 23:27:03	lukee	ah well. But on the whole I'm liking Go so far. I really like that you create standalone binaries on different platforms
2020-08-01 23:28:11	companion_cube	https://vrac.cedeela.fr/DSC_5357.JPG today I saw a real life gemini :p
2020-08-01 23:28:16	lukee	normally you have to do whole ritual and prayer to package an application for sharing
2020-08-01 23:28:52	lukee	nice
2020-08-01 23:31:19	lukee	anyway its late here, so I'm turning in - catch you all later
2020-08-01 23:31:23		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-01 23:41:26	makeworld	companion_cube: Ooh nice, where?
2020-08-01 23:54:18	companion_cube	smithonian museum of air and space
2020-08-01 23:57:08		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		caranatar has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		tildebeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		links has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		dkibi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		thombles has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		djph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		codingquark has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		siina has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:17		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		Sario has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		scifi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		vee has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		andinus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		englishm has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		xj9 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		calamitous has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		rmgr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		kevinsan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		obrut has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		Nalaph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		sndr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		dokuja has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		somasis has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		Sario528 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		m68k has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		nikita has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		pekka20 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		anton has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		Cadey has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		easeout has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		companion_cube has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		lvgx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		exprez135 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		everbern has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		notsure has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		dctrud has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		mozz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		prisonpotato has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		admicos has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		rjt_znc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		drskrzyk has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		hannu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		baschdel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		xq has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		cyrus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		jbg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		omni has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:18		omse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 01:53:23	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:36	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:39	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:53:47	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:54:11	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:54:20	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:54:22	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:55:18	ℹ 	andinus is now known as Guest61790
2020-08-02 01:55:55	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:55:56	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	prisonpotato has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	somasis has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:28	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo xq ben] by team.tilde.chat
2020-08-02 01:57:44	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:44	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:57:44	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:20	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:23	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:41	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:41	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:41	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:41	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:41	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:41	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:41	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 01:58:41	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 02:31:55	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-08-02 03:26:48	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 04:14:44		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-02 04:34:22	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 04:38:05		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-02 05:16:47		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-02 05:38:58	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 05:48:41		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-02 06:26:05	@ben	julienxx: OpenSSL 1.1.1g  21 Apr 2020 and cargo 1.43.0
2020-08-02 06:34:26	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 09:04:37		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-02 09:04:44	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 09:26:12	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 09:42:45		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-02 10:30:11		Guest61790 has quit (quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-08-02 10:31:07	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 10:39:55		rjt_znc has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-02 11:07:08	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 13:06:58	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 14:34:00		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-02 15:26:34	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 15:34:43		easeout has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-02 15:40:21		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-02 15:40:53	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 15:48:14		omse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-02 15:53:40		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-02 15:56:14	epoch	so, I have no idea what other people are going to do with this, but /I'm/ going to use gemini-proxy as another URI scheme.
2020-08-02 15:56:26	epoch	and http-proxy
2020-08-02 15:56:50	epoch	so I can make really long URIs that contain a list of proxies before the actual resource
2020-08-02 15:57:11	epoch	maybe.
2020-08-02 15:57:50	epoch	gemini-proxy://gem.proxy/gemini://actual-site/
2020-08-02 15:58:18	epoch	the gemini://actual-site/ gets passed as the request to gemini://gem.proxy/
2020-08-02 15:58:33	kensanata	Is there a need for this kind of hopping?
2020-08-02 15:59:39	epoch	probably not really
2020-08-02 15:59:53	epoch	I'll figure out how useful it is to me after making it work this way
2020-08-02 16:00:27	epoch	the other day I was wanting an easier way to set a proxy from a socks4a:// URI
2020-08-02 16:01:12	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:01:27	epoch	I figure I'll end up pushing the end URI handler programs through proxychains
2020-08-02 16:01:46	epoch	it might just end up as a mess that doesn't quite work right
2020-08-02 16:02:17	epoch	if it does I can just revert back to setting proxies manually.
2020-08-02 16:19:22		patrick has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:19:22		tildebeast has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:19:22		wingy has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:19:22		m68k has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:19:22		login has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:19:22		mozz has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:19:22		pentangle has quit (hub.tilde.chat town.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:19:33	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:19:35	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:19:40	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:19:41	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:19:42	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:19:56	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:20:02	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:21:21		caranatar has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:21:21		thombles has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:21:21		djph has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:21:21		makeworld has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:21:21		nikita has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:21:21		jan has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:21:21		Ekkie has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:21:27	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:21:34	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:21:38	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:21:55	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:21:55	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:21:55	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:22:24		caranatar has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:22:24		thombles has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:22:25		jan has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:22:46	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:22:54	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:25		mhj has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		kayw has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		dkibi has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		codingquark has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		seisatsu has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		englishm has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		kevinsan has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		sndr has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		erin has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		somasis has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:25		makeworld has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		krjst has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		ben has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		easeout has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		lvgx has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		everbern has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		jan6 has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		epoch has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		prisonpotato has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		admicos has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		hannu has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		xq has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		jbg has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:26		gohan has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 16:24:27	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:28	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:31	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:31	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:31	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:33	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:37	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:37	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:40	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:42	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:42	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:24:46	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:25:30	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:25:35	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:25:36	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:25:43	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:26:26	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:26:31	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:26:34	▬▬▶	230AAAAAQ has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:26:34	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:26:34	▬▬▶	prisonpotato has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:26:34	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:26:34	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:26:34	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:26:34	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o 230AAAAAQ] by ChanServ
2020-08-02 16:26:42	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:27:06	ℹ 	230AAAAAQ is now known as tilde
2020-08-02 16:27:10	ℹ 	tilde is now known as ben
2020-08-02 16:27:59	epoch	http://amundsen.com/hypermedia/hfactor/ oooh. wonder what a gemini one would look like
2020-08-02 16:29:21		easeout has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-02 16:30:48		jan6 has quit (Changing host)
2020-08-02 16:30:48	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 16:31:17	epoch	one box filled probably
2020-08-02 17:01:08	djph	Given the descriptions, sounds like LE, LO, CU,
2020-08-02 17:13:10		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		caranatar has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		tildebeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		links has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		dkibi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		thombles has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		djph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		siina has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		Sario has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		scifi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		vee has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		andinus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		englishm has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		calamitous has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		rmgr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		kevinsan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		griffin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		obrut has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		Nalaph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		sndr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		dokuja has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		Sario528 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		m68k has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		nikita has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		pekka20 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		anton has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		Cadey has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:10		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		lvgx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		companion_cube has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		everbern has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		notsure has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		mozz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		prisonpotato has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		kensanata has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		admicos has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		rjt_znc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		hannu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		xq has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		cyrus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		omni has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		codingquark has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		jbg has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		dctrud has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		paper_ has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		g has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-08-02 17:13:11		hhes has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-08-02 17:13:11	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-08-02 17:13:45	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:45	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 2 nicks (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal)
2020-08-02 17:13:47	ℹ 	Notice(cosmic.tilde.chat): Creation time of #gemini changed from Sun Aug 02 2020 17:13:42 to Sat Aug 31 2019 22:41:57
2020-08-02 17:13:47	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [-ont g] by cosmic.tilde.chat
2020-08-02 17:13:47	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+nrt] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	sndr has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	codingquark has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo julienxx ben] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	prisonpotato has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:13:47	ℹ 	hub.tilde.chat has changed topic for #gemini to "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-08-02 17:13:47	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:14:33	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-08-02 17:18:54	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:24:43	epoch	LE is embedded, like img tags
2020-08-02 17:30:58		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:58		caranatar has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:58		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:58		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:58		tildebeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:58		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:58		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:58		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		links has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		dkibi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		thombles has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		djph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		codingquark has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		siina has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		Sario has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		scifi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		vee has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		andinus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		englishm has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		calamitous has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		rmgr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		kevinsan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		griffin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		obrut has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		Nalaph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		sndr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		dokuja has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		Sario528 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		m68k has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		nikita has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		pekka20 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		anton has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		hhes has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		Cadey has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		easeout has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		companion_cube has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		lvgx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		everbern has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		notsure has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		mozz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		prisonpotato has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		paper_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		kensanata has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		admicos has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		rjt_znc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		hannu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		xq has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		cyrus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		jbg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		omni has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		dctrud has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-08-02 17:30:59		g has quit (Server shutting down)
2020-08-02 17:30:59	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-08-02 17:31:32	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:31:32	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-08-02 17:31:32	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-08-02 17:31:32	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 82 nicks (3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 79 normals)
2020-08-02 17:31:42	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-08-02 17:32:08	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:32:08	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-08-02 17:32:08	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-08-02 17:32:08	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 82 nicks (3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 79 normals)
2020-08-02 17:32:08	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-08-02 17:32:50	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-08-02 17:33:01		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		caranatar has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		tildebeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		links has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		dkibi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		yali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		g has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		thombles has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		djph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		codingquark has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		siina has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		Sario has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		scifi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		vee has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		andinus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		styan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		englishm has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		calamitous has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		rmgr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		kevinsan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		griffin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		obrut has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		Nalaph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		sndr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		dokuja has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		Sario528 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		m68k has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		nikita has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		pekka20 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		anton has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		hhes has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		Cadey has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		cat has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		easeout has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		companion_cube has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		lvgx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		everbern has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		notsure has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		dctrud has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		mozz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		prisonpotato has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		paper_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		kensanata has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		admicos has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		rjt_znc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		hannu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		xq has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		cyrus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		jbg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01		omni has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 17:33:01	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-08-02 17:33:26	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-08-02 17:34:02	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:34:02	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-08-02 17:34:02	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-08-02 17:34:02	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 82 nicks (3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 79 normals)
2020-08-02 17:34:02	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-08-02 17:34:48	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-08-02 17:44:51	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:48:07	lukee	epoch: thats interesting - my reading is Gemini would be LO (navigational links =>) and LT (input types 10 and 11) only
2020-08-02 17:50:42	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 17:52:35	lukee	even then the LT is only partial (not fully templated, just one field effectively)
2020-08-02 18:12:43	epoch	that's kind of what I was thinking one and a half boxes.
2020-08-02 18:13:24	epoch	There's a handful of things that are only LO
2020-08-02 18:13:38	epoch	like, terminals that make URIs clickable
2020-08-02 18:52:02	epoch	alright, thinking about how to compare SNI vs request to detect if someone is actually proxying or not.
2020-08-02 18:52:28	epoch	I think I need to user SNI:SERVER_PORT to compare with REQUEST_URI's host and port
2020-08-02 18:53:29	epoch	what would be the best error for refusing to proxy?
2020-08-02 18:53:33	⚡	epoch checks spec
2020-08-02 18:54:33	epoch	53
2020-08-02 18:57:09	epoch	:)
2020-08-02 18:57:37	epoch	alright, now I have an easy to use script for testing the proxying ability of servers.
2020-08-02 18:57:56	epoch	with URIs like: gemini-proxy://gemini.thebackupbox.net/gemini://epo.k.vu/
2020-08-02 18:58:25	epoch	and my server will notice that and 53
2020-08-02 18:58:27		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-02 18:58:40	Cadey	https://christine.website/blog/gemini-web-fear-missing-out-2020-08-02 i wrote something on HTTP today, gonna repost this to gemini
2020-08-02 18:59:22	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 19:09:14	epoch	I know there's been mentions of what to do with a proxied request... I guess I'll have to pay more attention to them when I re-read those.
2020-08-02 19:23:54	lukee	the weird thing with proxied requests is you can even request URIs of other protocols
2020-08-02 19:24:52	lukee	so your request might even be "http://domain/pathCRLF"
2020-08-02 19:25:10	lukee	but my impression is this is an edge case, not sure why it is necessary
2020-08-02 19:26:37		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-02 19:44:44	makeworld	Cadey: Nice, I'll check it ou
2020-08-02 19:44:49	makeworld	*out!
2020-08-02 19:45:12	makeworld	My post will be up soon, sort of talks about that too
2020-08-02 19:46:58	djph	Cadey: nice writeup.
2020-08-02 19:49:37	dkibi	interestingly gemini recently created a tiny bit of fear of missing out in me
2020-08-02 19:50:21	dkibi	I didn't check up on capcon in a while and also didn't add anything to my capsule so I fear of being left behind by the comunity
2020-08-02 19:51:08	makeworld	Yeah I get that
2020-08-02 19:57:51	makeworld	Alright, here's my post
2020-08-02 19:57:52	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-08-02-personal-feeds.gmi
2020-08-02 19:58:25	makeworld	It mostly becomes about an upcoming Amfora feature instead of anything deep, but I'm happy to have another ~~notch~~ post on my belt
2020-08-02 20:01:13	dkibi	given that I'm stuck in a city I'm unfamiliar with for a week I hope to be able to post things this week
2020-08-02 20:01:34	makeworld	Good luck!
2020-08-02 20:07:50	makeworld	Nice post Cadey :)
2020-08-02 20:08:14	makeworld	Well written. I definitely should be practicing writing more, but most days it just seems a lot easier and more fun to code
2020-08-02 20:11:04	lukee	makeworld: good post - I agree it is nice to get some of this into the clients. I think there is some scope for experimentation to build the best UI for monitoring a collection of feeds
2020-08-02 20:11:25	Cadey	i'm using tabletop RPGs to help me write fantasy stuff
2020-08-02 20:15:14	lukee	I think when you've subscribed to a number of feeds (say 50 maybe), an interesting approach is how to surface the writing of less frequent writers among those who post very regularly
2020-08-02 20:16:12	lukee	Spacewalk is nice in that it shows the most recent post of the feeds. probably some power law thing going on here
2020-08-02 20:17:57	makeworld	lukee: Thanks! Not sure what you mean about Spacewalk though, I thought it just shows page updates, and ranks pages from most recently updated to least
2020-08-02 20:25:46		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-02 20:26:33	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 20:40:32	lukee	sorry not very clear. My remark about the power law was just me thinking out loud about the distribution of gemlog (or other postings) posters. A few will update very regularly, most not very often, perhaps a Power law shape curve
2020-08-02 20:41:31	lukee	I also agree with your point about being able to subscribe to non-Atom page. probably would require caching a hash to detect changes or something like that
2020-08-02 20:58:21	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-08-02 20:58:37	makeworld	And yeah definitely, it would storing a hash of the page on the disk
2020-08-02 20:58:46	makeworld	Which is what spacewalk does
2020-08-02 21:01:21		lel has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:21		links has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		gbmor has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		scifi has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		wgreenhouse has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		griffin has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		obrut has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		tastytea has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		Sario528 has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		anton has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		lvgx has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		paper_ has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		jbg has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		paper has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:22		Ekkie has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-08-02 21:01:24	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:01:24	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:01:24	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:01:27	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:01:34	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:01:36	▬▬▶	papes has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:01:37	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:01:55	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:02:31	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:02:46	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:04:03	▬▬▶	somasis has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:04:55	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:06:16	epoch	actually made my gemini daemon able to proxy requests.
2020-08-02 21:06:27	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:06:40	epoch	it only proxies gemini and http atm
2020-08-02 21:07:05	makeworld	Netsplit just happened I think
2020-08-02 21:07:08	epoch	yeah
2020-08-02 21:07:14	makeworld	Sounds cool
2020-08-02 21:08:02	@ben	we've been upgrading nodes to inspircd 3.7.0 today
2020-08-02 21:08:07	@ben	only a couple left
2020-08-02 21:08:14	@ben	will be back up shortly
2020-08-02 21:09:14	makeworld	Ah ok, thanks
2020-08-02 21:31:17	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 21:54:48		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-02 21:56:14		admicos has quit (quit: cya)
2020-08-02 21:57:44	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 23:35:30	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-02 23:43:19		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 00:16:18	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 00:16:49		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-03 00:56:17		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 00:59:08	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 01:03:28		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-03 01:03:42	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 01:05:49		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-03 01:07:27	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 01:25:04		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-03 01:25:15	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 01:52:43		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 01:52:49	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 02:31:49	rmgr	Are there any Android Gemini clients other than that one linked on the list on circumlunar.space?
2020-08-03 02:57:18	▬▬▶	webchatter has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 03:05:34		webchatter has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-03 03:42:47	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 04:03:24	easeout	this week i learned some go and built the most basic static site generator for glogs.
2020-08-03 04:03:26	easeout	gemini://tilde.team:1965/~easeout/glog/2020-08-02-golang-and-gloggery.gmi
2020-08-03 04:11:52	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 05:33:51	rmgr	So that post would just be the text and the link at the bottom in a text file and then the generator handles putting the date on and stuff?
2020-08-03 06:33:03	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 06:34:25	▬▬▶	Bonglord69 has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 06:34:46		Bonglord69 has quit (quit: Quit)
2020-08-03 06:39:33		notsure has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-03 06:40:10	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 08:39:29	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 09:41:04	kensanata	I get the feeling somebody is indexing my entire site. Does GUS have a known IPv6?
2020-08-03 09:42:33	kensanata	The domain gus.guru seems to only have an IPv4? I don't really understand the output of dig -t AAAA gus.guru... Something about SOA?
2020-08-03 09:53:58	kensanata	2604:a880:400:d0::17e4:b001 has made 13953 in the last day or two, accounting for 97% of the connections.
2020-08-03 09:54:35	kensanata	whois says DigitalOcean...
2020-08-03 10:03:24	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 10:03:52	natpen	kensanata: fhaf's GUS!
2020-08-03 10:04:13	natpen	oops. that's GUS!
2020-08-03 10:04:30	kensanata	Ah!
2020-08-03 10:06:18	kensanata	If that number is stable, would it make sense to put it on the gus.guru site somewhere? Or perhaps it's already there and I missed it...
2020-08-03 10:07:22	natpen	Maybe? I actually don't know much about ipv6. can/should i associate it with DNS somehow, alongside or analogous to the ipv4 a record?
2020-08-03 10:08:29	kensanata	I think the association only goes one way: given a name like gus.guru, you can discover their IP numbers. Unless you're running a mail server in which case there's funky reverse lookup that your ISP has done for you, so we don't care about that.
2020-08-03 10:08:39	djph	natpen: in terms of DNS, it's exactly the same.
2020-08-03 10:08:58	cyflea	well, you can often ask your ISP to insert a reverse DNS entry for your IP
2020-08-03 10:09:13	djph	or in the case of DO, for the droplet
2020-08-03 10:09:14	cyflea	(i haven't done this myself for my IPv6 addresses, though...)
2020-08-03 10:09:18	kensanata	So the only "reverse lookup" option people like me have is whois – and that only gives me DigitalOcean, in this case.
2020-08-03 10:11:51	cyflea	hm, yes - this is a little old, but suggests they don't support PTR records for IPv6 yet - https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/ptr-record-for-ipv6
2020-08-03 10:12:45	kensanata	I just tried "host 2604:a880:400:d0::17e4:b001" and that gives me "1.0.0.b.4.e.7.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.d.0.0.0.0.4.0.0.8.8.a.4.0.6.2.ip6.arpa has no PTR record"
2020-08-03 10:14:22	kensanata	So in short, natpen, I wouldn't do anything on the tech side. All I'd do is write a sentence on the documentation page, some where.
2020-08-03 10:15:04	@tomasino	yo yo yo
2020-08-03 10:15:06	@tomasino	how goes it all
2020-08-03 10:15:13	natpen	Okay. So no AAAA record? (that's the only promising sounding thing I found in the last 2 mins of searching) - https://superuser.com/a/993290
2020-08-03 10:15:23	natpen	hi tomasino
2020-08-03 10:15:50	cyflea	the AAAA record is for hostname -> IPv6 addr. The PTR record (if there was one) is for IPv6 addr -> hostname.
2020-08-03 10:15:57	kensanata	natpen: Yeah, I don't think you need it because I assume there's no service running on that machine that peole need to access from the outside. All they need they get from gus.guru.
2020-08-03 10:16:42	@tomasino	oh Cadey posted about gemini... *runs off to read*
2020-08-03 10:16:43	kensanata	tomasino: doing OK; how's summer in Iceland
2020-08-03 10:16:48	@tomasino	summer is glorious!
2020-08-03 10:16:56	@tomasino	gonna head to the pool in a few for my daily swim
2020-08-03 10:16:59	@tomasino	how's things with you all?
2020-08-03 10:17:01	kensanata	Very cool.
2020-08-03 10:17:32	kensanata	I'm still on summer break so I'm doing OK.
2020-08-03 10:18:01	kensanata	My sister is getting married and people are coming and COVID-19 is still around, so that sucks
2020-08-03 10:19:02	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 10:20:27	@tomasino	oh, that's great news and horrible simultaneously
2020-08-03 10:20:32	@tomasino	i wish her the best and you all safety
2020-08-03 10:23:45	@tomasino	Cadey's post was good. the lobsters replies were unnecessary to read
2020-08-03 10:23:54	@tomasino	as always, don't bother with comments
2020-08-03 10:24:06	@tomasino	now to catch up in gemini proper
2020-08-03 10:28:03	@tomasino	oh, strike my female pronouns and s/her/they/g
2020-08-03 10:28:29	@tomasino	sorry 'bout that. just caught their intro on the gemlog
2020-08-03 10:31:55	djph	tomasino: "their" being ... ?
2020-08-03 10:32:25	@tomasino	cadey
2020-08-03 10:33:23	@tomasino	the "christine.website" had me thinking female pronouns, but they're nonbinary according to the first journal post in the gemlog so I'm fixin' my pronoun use
2020-08-03 10:33:37	@tomasino	,pronouns Cadey
2020-08-03 10:33:45	@tomasino	oh, no tildebot in here?
2020-08-03 10:34:21	@tomasino	julienxx: is that on purpose? (no tildebot)
2020-08-03 10:34:28	@tomasino	or tiwesdaeg ^
2020-08-03 10:34:59	@julienxx	no idea :)
2020-08-03 10:35:11	djph	ah
2020-08-03 10:35:50	natpen	kensanata: okay! I've added the current IP addresses to the about page (it will show up after a server restart as soon as GUS finishes indexing alexschroeder.ch), but I also added the AAAA record for good measure. So now you can do nslookup on both A and AAAA gus.guru DNS records.
2020-08-03 10:36:12	kensanata	Thanks!
2020-08-03 10:36:32	⚡	tomasino hugs GUS
2020-08-03 10:37:14	kensanata	Doing image manipulation in ImageMagick takes as long as it does in Gimp because it takes me so damn long to figure out the options.
2020-08-03 10:37:36		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 10:39:07	⚡	natpen programs GUS to return hugs
2020-08-03 10:39:29	kensanata	Haha
2020-08-03 10:39:52	kensanata	Future psychologists will have some hug transference theory I'm sure.
2020-08-03 10:40:11	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 10:40:35	kensanata	Why oh why did I volunteer for the job of collecting pictures and putting them in a folder?
2020-08-03 10:40:57	kensanata	That's right, because the person who was in charge of it originally had a near break down...
2020-08-03 10:41:01	kensanata	And now...
2020-08-03 10:41:21	kensanata	Some people can't send two pictures so I have to figure out how to convert A B +append C.
2020-08-03 10:41:36	kensanata	Some people send a PowerPoint! Some people send a PDF!
2020-08-03 10:41:39	kensanata	Oh my...
2020-08-03 10:41:45	kensanata	"Can you add this text to the image?"
2020-08-03 10:41:56	kensanata	I can, but I don't want to... 😭
2020-08-03 10:44:49	@tomasino	when i ask for pictures i inevitably get a word document with a picture embedded from people
2020-08-03 10:45:13	@tomasino	like... how?! you already had a picture if you added it to a word doc!? Why all the extra shenanigans
2020-08-03 10:46:38	@tomasino	xq: what's up with the "makedir -p" thing? was that for autodeployment stuff? 
2020-08-03 10:46:55	kensanata	tomasino: haha, now I feel better :D
2020-08-03 10:47:04	xq	yeah, those directories did not exist on all platforms by-default
2020-08-03 10:47:23	@tomasino	i mean why "makedir" and not "mkdir"
2020-08-03 10:47:28	xq	huh?
2020-08-03 10:47:39	@tomasino	the command in the makefile by default is listed as "makedir -p" 
2020-08-03 10:47:46	@tomasino	is that what you have on your platform?
2020-08-03 10:47:46	xq	whoops :D
2020-08-03 10:47:51	xq	that's probably just a typo
2020-08-03 10:47:52	@tomasino	ahhh, hehe
2020-08-03 10:47:53	@tomasino	okay
2020-08-03 10:47:57	xq	i never use the makefile
2020-08-03 10:48:06	@tomasino	oh, derp. :D
2020-08-03 10:48:15	xq	i hate installing self-compiled software as systemwide :D
2020-08-03 10:48:26	@tomasino	fair enough!
2020-08-03 10:48:44	xq	i'm using QtCreator to build and have a symlink for kristall executable from builddir to my ~/.bin folder
2020-08-03 10:49:13	xq	i hope i can close some kristall issues in my vacation in two weeks
2020-08-03 10:49:35	xq	i'm currently having a lot of stuff in my life, moving to another flat
2020-08-03 10:49:35	@tomasino	i just gave you a new one, but i think it's an easy one
2020-08-03 10:49:43	@tomasino	oh congrats!
2020-08-03 10:49:44	@tomasino	that's fun
2020-08-03 10:54:05	xq	yeah i know :D
2020-08-03 10:54:06	xq	and thanks
2020-08-03 10:54:15	xq	reducing my way to work from 30km to 3km
2020-08-03 10:54:20	xq	huge life improvement
2020-08-03 10:54:36	xq	also taking the opportunity to renovate the new flat and making it awesome
2020-08-03 10:55:16	@tomasino	3km commute is awesome
2020-08-03 10:55:23	@tomasino	do you have to physically go in to work though?
2020-08-03 10:55:29	@tomasino	that's so 2019
2020-08-03 10:57:40	xq	haha
2020-08-03 10:57:49	xq	yeah, i need to be at my workplace for most of the tasks
2020-08-03 10:58:07	xq	writing software that interacts with hw
2020-08-03 11:00:27	@tomasino	ahh
2020-08-03 11:00:31	@tomasino	that'll do it i suppose
2020-08-03 11:00:35	@tomasino	unless..... ROBOTS
2020-08-03 11:01:35	xq	haha
2020-08-03 11:01:40	xq	nah, sadly no robots
2020-08-03 11:01:44	@tomasino	curses!
2020-08-03 11:01:55	kensanata	Also, would you want the robots to come from the office into your livingroom...
2020-08-03 11:02:18	@tomasino	i'm thinking you have robots at work that type for you. You just ssh in to drive. :)
2020-08-03 11:02:30	@tomasino	no possible downside
2020-08-03 11:02:35	djph	tomasino: I think those are called "scripts"
2020-08-03 11:03:03	kensanata	What a weird feeling: to be happy about spam in the inbox because you heard that notification sound and you were afraid of more work. But no, it was just spam. Phew! 😅
2020-08-03 11:03:17	djph	kensanata: that's the best mail I get at work too
2020-08-03 11:03:24	kensanata	:)
2020-08-03 11:03:51	kensanata	OK, I'm off looking for lunch. Y'all stay safe and wear your masks.
2020-08-03 11:04:24	@tomasino	ciao!
2020-08-03 11:04:30	@tomasino	and chow
2020-08-03 11:04:31	⚡	djph refuses to wear a mask at work.  Mostly because "work" is "at home".
2020-08-03 11:04:42	@tomasino	i made a new mask last night
2020-08-03 11:04:47	@tomasino	posted it on pixfed
2020-08-03 11:04:49	@tomasino	lemme find a link
2020-08-03 11:05:03	@tomasino	https://pixfed.com/p/jamestomasino/195694479817183232
2020-08-03 11:06:12	djph	now I need a jolly roger or a poison symbol :(
2020-08-03 11:06:44	@tomasino	poison symbol would be great
2020-08-03 11:06:50	@tomasino	poison on the left, biohazard on the right!
2020-08-03 11:08:09	djph	hah
2020-08-03 11:08:36	djph	I keep dorking about trying to make a decent bane mask ...
2020-08-03 11:09:11	djph	... $wifey says I'm not allowed to shave my head though :|
2020-08-03 11:09:53	@tomasino	aww
2020-08-03 11:17:30	cyflea	tomasino: nice mask! and those food pics are making me hungry...
2020-08-03 11:19:14	@tomasino	Nom nom
2020-08-03 11:33:13	dkibi	tomasino: this one looks like the freesewing one a bit
2020-08-03 11:33:30	@tomasino	freesewing?
2020-08-03 11:34:07	@tomasino	oh, it's a site
2020-08-03 11:34:16	@tomasino	i guess it does a bit, yeah
2020-08-03 11:34:30	@tomasino	it's all hand stitched cause i don't have a sewing machine
2020-08-03 11:35:28	dkibi	yeah it's quite a neat site
2020-08-03 11:36:07	dkibi	all open source and adapts the patterns to measures one can enter I'm currently wearing (or did until I entered my office 3min ago) my instance of their mask ^^
2020-08-03 11:36:10	@tomasino	this is quite nice
2020-08-03 11:40:27	Cadey	tomasino: she or they is fine, I have no strong preference between the two
2020-08-03 11:40:37	@tomasino	♥️
2020-08-03 11:41:19	Cadey	And yeah the lobste.rs repliers didn't really get it I don't think
2020-08-03 11:42:06	Cadey	ah well, it happens, I'm working on getting better at expressing these kinds of thoughts. Maybe I'll be more direct next time.
2020-08-03 11:43:47	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 11:44:58	Cadey	Kinda sad it didn't make it to Hacker News, those comments would have been hilarious
2020-08-03 11:49:17	ℹ 	andinus is now known as notme
2020-08-03 11:49:21	ℹ 	notme is now known as andinus
2020-08-03 11:49:45	@tomasino	We had two positive HN reactions and one negative each time it hit
2020-08-03 11:51:51	Cadey	it's the kind of thing that people either get or they don't
2020-08-03 11:51:53	Cadey	and that's okay
2020-08-03 11:55:14	@tomasino	Agreed
2020-08-03 11:59:00	@tomasino	Pool time!
2020-08-03 12:07:00	dkibi	Cadey: it's again another case where I'm somewhat happy that I don't have a lobste.rs account: I would have spent quite a lot of time to write a long response to some of the comments
2020-08-03 12:08:21		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 12:26:05	omni	🖁 clam technology
2020-08-03 12:46:55		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-03 13:22:18		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 13:24:53	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 13:37:25	easeout	rmgr, yes, that's about it!
2020-08-03 14:03:35	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 14:04:28		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 14:29:25		wangofett has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-03 14:32:24	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 14:58:57	makeworld	natpen: If you're seeing this, I was wondering about the new Gus known-feeds page
2020-08-03 14:59:29	makeworld	It's a great feature! But I'm wondering how you decide what a feed is. Do you have a feed parser working on detection, on all XML files or something?
2020-08-03 15:01:31	makeworld	In the same post you were talking about sharing GUS with the community, and how it isn't easily self-hostable. I know that sharing data is a different discussion, but I think pushing commits to git would be an easy first step to help with that. As it stands now, GUS is somewhat closed source
2020-08-03 15:01:33	▬▬▶	Samsai has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 15:06:38	makeworld	vee: ^^
2020-08-03 15:07:39		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-03 15:08:26	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 15:18:14	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 15:25:49	makeworld	Cadey: maj.kahless.cetecean.club has an invalid cert btw
2020-08-03 15:26:12	makeworld	Wildcard certs don't work for sub-subdomains I'm afraid
2020-08-03 15:26:53	makeworld	julienxx: 9til.de cert has expired
2020-08-03 15:28:16	acdw	shoot so has breadpunk.club's
2020-08-03 15:32:31	@julienxx	makeworld: thanks, will try to fix that later today
2020-08-03 15:32:46	makeworld	Thanks!
2020-08-03 15:32:59	makeworld	acdw: Oh do you run that? I've been meaning to tell someone
2020-08-03 15:33:23	makeworld	Also if the person who runs bleyble.com is here... that cert has expired too
2020-08-03 15:33:37	Cadey	makeworld: that's kind of intentional, i'm not sure why that domain keeps getting requests
2020-08-03 15:33:42	acdw	hey makeworld! yes I do ... I've noticed it before but I keep forgetting to do anything about it
2020-08-03 15:34:20	makeworld	Just make a new cert... a 5 year one this time :)
2020-08-03 15:34:31	Cadey	look into the gemcert tool
2020-08-03 15:34:34	acdw	haha I'm just using certbot
2020-08-03 15:34:36	Cadey	it makes everything easier
2020-08-03 15:34:45	makeworld	Nah man don't use certbot
2020-08-03 15:34:53	makeworld	Use gemcert or the openssl commands I shared
2020-08-03 15:34:58	makeworld	Lol
2020-08-03 15:34:59	acdw	Aw but I wanna use the same cert for web and gemini
2020-08-03 15:35:15	makeworld	It'd be nice but overall I think not worth it
2020-08-03 15:35:33	acdw	yeah i can see that. I forget what command to run to update the SSL cert anyway
2020-08-03 15:35:46	acdw	it works online....
2020-08-03 15:36:10	admicos	quick question: why not certbot?
2020-08-03 15:36:16	acdw	^ yes that me too
2020-08-03 15:36:21	acdw	but I think I can just gemcert
2020-08-03 15:37:30	acdw	if i can find it.... lol
2020-08-03 15:40:59	acdw	"package crypto/ed25519: unrecognized import path "crypto/ed25519" (import path does not begin with hostname)"
2020-08-03 15:41:01	acdw	:(
2020-08-03 15:41:10	acdw	when go get tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemcert
2020-08-03 15:42:30	Cadey	are you using fedora?
2020-08-03 15:42:36	acdw	nope I have Ubuntu
2020-08-03 15:42:43	Cadey	how did you install go?
2020-08-03 15:43:12	acdw	sudo apt-get install golang
2020-08-03 15:43:19	acdw	i might need a crypto library
2020-08-03 15:43:50	Cadey	oh
2020-08-03 15:43:53	Cadey	that's probably why lol
2020-08-03 15:44:02	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 15:44:04	Cadey	ubuntu cripples go and ships an ancient version by default
2020-08-03 15:44:10	acdw	ah awesome
2020-08-03 15:44:12	Cadey	it's probably better to install from the upstream tarball
2020-08-03 15:44:22	acdw	greeeeeaaaaattttt
2020-08-03 15:44:27	acdw	lol thanks Cadey
2020-08-03 15:44:29	Cadey	thank canonical
2020-08-03 15:44:37	Cadey	worst case i can give you an ubuntu-linked version of gemcert
2020-08-03 15:44:40	acdw	Oh yeah Mark Canonical or wahtever his name is
2020-08-03 15:44:46	acdw	lemme try installing some stuff
2020-08-03 15:44:49	Cadey	:+1:
2020-08-03 15:44:57	Cadey	i'm here if you need the easy way
2020-08-03 15:45:08	acdw	:) thanks
2020-08-03 15:46:54	natpen	makeworld: always badgering me to see my sloppy code lol
2020-08-03 15:48:03	Cadey	natpen: all art is terrible in the eyes of the artist
2020-08-03 15:49:36		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-03 15:59:02	@julienxx	makeworld: should be fixed, thanks again for the heads up!
2020-08-03 16:00:06	@tomasino	hey Cadey - are you gonna wire up the pony api on your constellation?
2020-08-03 16:01:09	@tomasino	i mean, it's fancy and all for curling, but a front-end in gemini would be glorious
2020-08-03 16:07:11	natpen	makeworld: GUS known-feeds is based on url string matching of `%atom.xml`, but there's an unreleased change to also combine that with content_type == 'application/atom+xml'
2020-08-03 16:08:53	Cadey	I might, but I'd need to port it to Rust
2020-08-03 16:09:47	Cadey	(The original implementation is in Nim, and I no longer really want to use Nim)
2020-08-03 16:09:51	companion_cube	oh, why not?
2020-08-03 16:10:18	Cadey	it doesn't package nicely with my setup
2020-08-03 16:10:26	companion_cube	ah, nix
2020-08-03 16:10:31	companion_cube	self-inflicted pain :p
2020-08-03 16:10:49	companion_cube	(tbh I'm not using nim either for now, it doesn't seem stable enough)
2020-08-03 16:11:00	Cadey	Woe is me for wanting builds to be somewhat reproducible :P
2020-08-03 16:11:48	companion_cube	anyway, rust is cool
2020-08-03 16:12:09	Cadey	I made the setup with Maj flexible enough that there's a full blown routing macro in there
2020-08-03 16:12:59	Cadey	https://tulpa.dev/cadey/maj/src/branch/main/site/src/server.rs#L79
2020-08-03 16:13:11	Cadey	This is how /dice on my Gemini node works
2020-08-03 16:14:16	acdw	D: gemcertted me a new cert but now molly-brown can't open the log file
2020-08-03 16:14:28	companion_cube	macros are cool
2020-08-03 16:14:30	companion_cube	in small doses :D
2020-08-03 16:14:34	Cadey	Yeah
2020-08-03 16:14:41	Cadey	they're like violence
2020-08-03 16:14:48	Cadey	use them too much and you're known for being violent
2020-08-03 16:14:56	Cadey	use them just enough and they can be useful
2020-08-03 16:15:02	companion_cube	I'm writing a bytecode interpreter for a thing, and it's also super useful to have a few macros in there
2020-08-03 16:15:21	Cadey	Especially for automating away copy-paste
2020-08-03 16:16:37	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 16:17:26	acdw	oh nope it can't open the keys lol
2020-08-03 16:18:06	acdw	GOT IT
2020-08-03 16:18:42	acdw	aw yiss beautiful
2020-08-03 16:19:01	acdw	thanks Cadey for the help and everyone else also
2020-08-03 16:21:17	@tomasino	the dice is really great
2020-08-03 16:21:34	acdw	oh snap I just realized I'm not doing anything today so I can try and setup a gemlog.blue type thing on breadpunk
2020-08-03 16:21:37	acdw	wish me luck
2020-08-03 16:21:49	acdw	also YES the dice thing is so great, I want to use it next time I DnD
2020-08-03 16:24:46	@tomasino	oh, i didn't try, but does it do Fate dice?
2020-08-03 16:24:51	@tomasino	4dF?
2020-08-03 16:24:52	@tomasino	lets see
2020-08-03 16:25:23	acdw	also tomasino I don't remember if I mentioned it but your stuff on the I Ching got me to grab it from the library
2020-08-03 16:25:39	acdw	I haven't tried divining yet but the parts of the book I've read are really great
2020-08-03 16:25:39	@tomasino	oh that's awesome!
2020-08-03 16:25:52	@tomasino	i hope you get some insight from using it
2020-08-03 16:26:19	acdw	yes me too :) I actually have a couple of questions to ask the oracle already; maybe I should just use a coin system instead of holding out for stalks lol
2020-08-03 16:26:40	@tomasino	whatever works for you
2020-08-03 16:27:36	makeworld	natpen: Sorry :P. It's just that I think having the code available is important and useful to lots of folks
2020-08-03 16:28:14	makeworld	Sounds good! I think I saw some people using feed.xml which is good to check for too, but I'm not totally sure
2020-08-03 16:34:26	natpen	makeworld: you can see it at https://git.sr.ht/~natpen/gus
2020-08-03 16:34:44	makeworld	Yeah I saw the updates, thanks :)
2020-08-03 16:36:07	makeworld	- Filenames: `atom.xml`, `feed.xml`, `*.rss`, `*.atom`- Mimetypes: `application/atom+xml`, `application/rss+xml`
2020-08-03 16:36:12	makeworld	Oh whoops
2020-08-03 16:36:39	makeworld	Mean to be on two separate lines. Anyway, that's probably what I'll go with for Amfora's feed detection if that's helpful
2020-08-03 16:51:11	Cadey	acdw: just be aware the dice route is known to be a bit aggressive when it comes to being _actually random_, so be prepared for that
2020-08-03 16:53:43	acdw	Cadey: you talking about I Ching? b/c I was struggling with that a little
2020-08-03 16:55:49	Cadey	nah, /dice on cetacean.club
2020-08-03 16:55:54	Cadey	it's kind of aggressively random
2020-08-03 16:57:22	acdw	oh yes, lol
2020-08-03 16:57:43	acdw	I did notice it took a while to load --- or do you mean it keeps a list of previous rolls and won't reroll
2020-08-03 16:57:45	login	what do you mean 'aggressively' random?
2020-08-03 16:58:12	acdw	^ this. now i am confused
2020-08-03 16:58:33	Cadey	it uses RDRAND for rolling dice
2020-08-03 16:58:54	Cadey	this is a bit more cryptographically random than actually rolling physical dice
2020-08-03 16:59:45	acdw	oh wut
2020-08-03 17:00:20	Cadey	yeah
2020-08-03 17:00:25	Cadey	just be aware
2020-08-03 17:00:54	Cadey	it's not practially an issue, but it can make some odd things happen
2020-08-03 17:00:55	acdw	I never thought about the cryptographic abilities of dice rolling
2020-08-03 17:01:12	Cadey	i'm looking into using an alternative RNG for the future
2020-08-03 17:01:15	acdw	so you're saying, if I'm doing diceware passwords I should use your dice, not mine?
2020-08-03 17:01:32	Cadey	if you're doing diceware passwords, do not trust me
2020-08-03 17:01:49	acdw	haha
2020-08-03 17:01:59	Cadey	:P
2020-08-03 17:02:26	acdw	I just use the same password for everything
2020-08-03 17:02:28	acdw	hunter2
2020-08-03 17:02:48	Cadey	i only see stars on my side
2020-08-03 17:03:19	acdw	*******
2020-08-03 17:03:27	acdw	that's why it's the most secure password of all time
2020-08-03 17:03:53		natpen has quit (quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 26.3)
2020-08-03 17:03:57	Cadey	oh you meant hunter2, i see
2020-08-03 17:04:23	acdw	what's that? I just see stars on my side
2020-08-03 17:04:27	acdw	not sure what you're talking about
2020-08-03 17:04:40	Cadey	*******
2020-08-03 17:05:21	acdw	oh yes
2020-08-03 17:05:26	acdw	hunter2, the classic
2020-08-03 17:05:33	acdw	(this is so dumb lol
2020-08-03 17:06:13	Cadey	ikr
2020-08-03 17:06:21	Cadey	i'm waiting for CI anyways
2020-08-03 17:06:37	acdw	ah so you have an excuse. i'm literally browsing reddit
2020-08-03 17:07:13	Cadey	yeah
2020-08-03 17:07:21	Cadey	turns out circleCI -> Jenkins can be slow
2020-08-03 17:07:56	acdw	huh! I've...heard those words before
2020-08-03 17:08:10	acdw	building some software ~in the cloud~, right?
2020-08-03 17:08:19	Cadey	yep
2020-08-03 17:08:24	Cadey	cloud native applications deployed on kubernetes
2020-08-03 17:08:34	acdw	oh cool
2020-08-03 17:27:32	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 17:32:15	omni	f8s
2020-08-03 18:06:43		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-08-03 18:07:12	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 18:44:20		notsure has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-03 18:45:39	▬▬▶	anton1 has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 18:45:49	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 18:48:49		anton has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 18:51:10		anton1 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-03 18:53:41	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 19:03:11	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 19:56:08	▬▬▶	zippoh has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 19:59:08		zippoh has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-03 20:16:15	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 21:06:29		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-03 21:17:20	admicos	so, i just made this: gemini://ebc.li/, now all I need is to actually write to it
2020-08-03 21:17:29	admicos	the only concern i have is i don't have anything to write
2020-08-03 21:18:22		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 21:26:16		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-03 21:30:51		Samsai has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91)")
2020-08-03 21:44:05	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 21:46:57	cyflea	That feels like a common problem, admicos - I felt similarly after getting my server up. words will come, you just have to let them.
2020-08-03 21:47:17	easeout	make the clackity noise
2020-08-03 22:01:00	rmgr	admicos: what is the last thing you created? What did you do on the weekend? What are your thoughts on the social media firehose posts various people listed on CAPCOM have posted about?
2020-08-03 22:04:34	admicos	rmgr: i am so boring that the answer to all of the three questions are "nothing interesting"
2020-08-03 22:05:54	rmgr	That's what I thought too but eventually I got ideas after a few days of having a bare site up! :P
2020-08-03 22:06:33	admicos	yeah, i guess i should wait a bit
2020-08-03 22:08:51	CommunistWolf	admicos: I make it a tradition to blog about my new blog setup, whenever I change it
2020-08-03 22:28:46	omni	doesn't need to be like a blog either, or follow any pattern really
2020-08-03 22:48:11	▬▬▶	drskrzyk_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-03 22:50:50		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-03 23:05:48	admicos	i am trying a little experiment to make the gemini capsule a little less boring, what do y'all think? gemini://ebc.li/experiments/motd.gmi
2020-08-03 23:06:10	admicos	i guess ":%s/the/my" since it's been a while after the last relevant message
2020-08-03 23:13:35		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-03 23:23:23	rb100	admicos: seems like a fun idea
2020-08-03 23:26:21		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-03 23:30:56		drskrzyk_ has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-08-03 23:42:43	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 00:54:25	easeout	admicos, i like it. it makes your root page feel like there's activity. home pages often feel so sterile (mine sure does)
2020-08-04 06:20:59		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-04 06:21:08	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 07:20:09	▬▬▶	Samsai has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 07:25:14	cyflea	admicos: looks great!
2020-08-04 08:21:53		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 08:40:22	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 08:46:23	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 09:25:02	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 10:10:29		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 10:33:26	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 10:36:12		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 10:38:41	rmgr	So are there any gemlogs not on CAPCOM I should keep an eye on?
2020-08-04 11:08:09		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 11:09:57	lukee	rmgr: you could start from GUS' list of known feeds found whilst crawling
2020-08-04 11:09:58	lukee	gemini://gus.guru/known-feeds
2020-08-04 11:16:04	lukee	otherwise some gemlogs might be just index pages, not as Atom. So its really whatever pages take your fancy
2020-08-04 11:30:01	kensanata	rmgr: I check CAPCOM and Spacewalk.
2020-08-04 11:37:35		wangofett has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-04 11:56:18	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 12:12:07	kevinsan	I want to speak to someone who knows about RPGs - I think the penny just dropped for me, and I kind of get what it is now.
2020-08-04 12:13:00	djph	role playing games?
2020-08-04 12:14:36	kevinsan	yes - off topic, but sorta not, since dice come up a lot
2020-08-04 12:15:06	djph	hah
2020-08-04 12:15:19	djph	can be fun, can be frustrating as all getout
2020-08-04 12:15:39	kevinsan	so, in short - i think my kids naturally do this in their play, so I want to introduce some of this stuff to them (6, 8, and 11 years old)
2020-08-04 12:16:41	djph	D&D 3.5 edition or pathfinder for the 11 year old.  6 and 8 might be a bit too young for them (might not).
2020-08-04 12:17:02	djph	ASSUMING we're talking about proper pen & paper games and not say Icewind Dale or Baldur's Gate
2020-08-04 12:17:53	kevinsan	they love screens, like all kids seem to - but I was thinking there might be something 'generative' to set the scene, but mostly pen, paper, and dice.
2020-08-04 12:18:04	djph	have a 3d printer?
2020-08-04 12:18:21	kevinsan	but simplified, so they can have fun. I don't have a 3d printer, but I do have a CNC
2020-08-04 12:18:57	djph	Okay, then you're stuck to either drawing on a mat, or buying paper templates really
2020-08-04 12:19:43	djph	Which is totally fine, but the younger ones might not take to something just drawn on paper (e.g. "this circle with an X is a statue")
2020-08-04 12:20:29	djph	Or they might - they're your kids, you know them better than me :)
2020-08-04 12:21:27	kevinsan	we did a sort of adventure with pen and paper, and they loved it. I felt that I needed some more structure to constrain the game to enjoyable parameters.
2020-08-04 12:22:24	kevinsan	but even simple D&D is complex - my kids are of the Roblox generation. They want gratification with minimal effort.
2020-08-04 12:22:44	⚡	lukee wants gratification with minimal effort too
2020-08-04 12:23:07	kevinsan	that's what makes a good programmer, imho, so it's not a bad quality
2020-08-04 12:23:26	djph	take them on basic (short) dungeon crawls then.  Don't worry(yet) about much more structure than "Mayor toadstool's daughter got kidnapped"
2020-08-04 12:25:11	kevinsan	I'm kinda surprised nobody's come up with a 'Scratch' equivalent of RPGs, for parents who were never brought up on this kind of thing
2020-08-04 12:25:51	kevinsan	I mean, it's imagination that's the key thing here, and kids have that in spadefuls
2020-08-04 12:26:36	djph	hah, yep
2020-08-04 12:28:14	kevinsan	for my daughter, if it's spoken then it's real in her mind. When she hatched a dragon egg that she found in the fireplace of an abandoned house, she was truly delighted.
2020-08-04 12:30:14	djph	"roll initiative" // "everyone's dead"
2020-08-04 12:31:38	kevinsan	lol, that sounds like a lot of tears in my house
2020-08-04 12:31:58	djph	it's how last week's session went for us
2020-08-04 12:51:52	kensanata	My thinking is that there are a gazillion games that are different from D&D, but they haver a very, very small number of followers.
2020-08-04 12:52:18	kensanata	For example, for kids below 10, I'd probably start with something based on Lasers & Feelings.
2020-08-04 12:52:33	kensanata	Just a page or two, and that's it.
2020-08-04 12:52:48	kensanata	Or, going further, a game like Lady Blackbird.
2020-08-04 12:53:37	kensanata	https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2019-01-05_Lasers_%26_Feelings
2020-08-04 12:55:14	kensanata	https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2011-08-23_Lady_Blackbird
2020-08-04 12:56:48	kensanata	Also, still not a lot of rules, Risus. http://www.risusiverse.com/
2020-08-04 12:59:19	kensanata	And if they're reaching 10 or 12, I guess I'd use the Basic D&D games from the eighties. Something like my own variant, or Moldvay, Marsh & Cook's Basic/Expert D&D, or the recent rewriting by Gavin, Old School Essentials. https://necroticgnome.com/collections/old-school-essentials
2020-08-04 13:01:29	kensanata	At that "difficulty level", there's also Basic Fantasy https://www.basicfantasy.org/ (which is more inspired by D&D 3.5), or the translation of the German Dungeon Slayers.
2020-08-04 13:02:19	kensanata	I'd probably stay away from games marketed for kids, but I don't know, maybe that's something you want to try. I wouldn't be much help with that.
2020-08-04 13:04:03	kensanata	Anyway, kevinsan, the RPG tag on my blog is... 1282 pages.
2020-08-04 13:04:08	kensanata	:D
2020-08-04 13:07:11	jan	interesting discussion! my 11yo son wants to start with D&D
2020-08-04 13:09:52	kensanata	jan: Does your son prefer Norwegian to English or something like that? That's definitely something to consider.
2020-08-04 13:11:08	kensanata	Otherwise, I'd simply get Moldvay's Basic D&D from 1981. It has elves, dwarves, halflings, magic users, fighters, thieves, red dragons, orcs, a cover showing a dragon and a ton of treasure, it say's D&D on the cover, and yet it's simpler than D&D 5E.
2020-08-04 13:11:15	jan	english is ok, I think
2020-08-04 13:11:43	⚡	jan => commute
2020-08-04 13:12:01	kensanata	https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/110274/DD-Basic-Set-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basic
2020-08-04 13:14:07	kensanata	Or the new rewrite, this is the free no-art version: https://necroticgnome.com/collections/old-school-essentials/products/old-school-essentials-basic-rules
2020-08-04 13:33:27		hhes has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-04 13:33:38	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 13:44:54	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 13:51:08	kevinsan	kensanata, that's a goldmine of info, thanks! Lasers & Feelings does look like a great place to start. I feel like my 11 year old could run that for his younger siblings.
2020-08-04 13:53:00	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 13:58:39	kensanata	Yeah!
2020-08-04 14:14:30		wangofett has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-04 14:16:10	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 14:16:27	kensanata	https://writingalchemy.net/resources/lasers-and-feelings-hacks/ if you ever need a different genre...
2020-08-04 15:38:55	makeworld	rmgr: Check out gemlog.blue
2020-08-04 15:39:39	makeworld	I submitted Amfora to HN on a whim, we'll see how it goes lol
2020-08-04 15:43:24	lukee	ah good luck with that :-)
2020-08-04 15:44:40	lukee	HN fanboys: "Gemini is unnecessary, we already have the web..."
2020-08-04 15:46:02	admicos	From the limited exposure I had to HN, the general question there seemed to be "but how can it money"
2020-08-04 15:46:33	lukee	Still there are usually a few grumpy techno-skeptics lurking there who get it
2020-08-04 15:46:54	admicos	True
2020-08-04 15:47:10	lukee	Its how I heard about it
2020-08-04 15:47:25	kensanata	I wonder whether I should add a HTML form to edit Gemini Wiki pages. Would that make it an instant hit, gaining me fame and glory, or would this just be meh, lost sight of the Gemini vision, caved in, nobody needs that...
2020-08-04 15:48:46	lukee	kensanata: I think there is merit in being able to edit gemini pages within the client
2020-08-04 15:49:17	lukee	but can we use Gemini as the front end instead?
2020-08-04 15:49:35	kensanata	lukee: well, where do you stand on the Titan debate?
2020-08-04 15:49:49	lukee	I like the idea, not convinced of the implementation
2020-08-04 15:49:57	kensanata	I've integrated it into the Gemini client I use, and I use it a lot.
2020-08-04 15:50:42	kensanata	But what I'm not going to do is typing my posts into the prompt for a 10.
2020-08-04 15:50:42	lukee	My impression is it makes too many assumptions about the type of end point it talks to
2020-08-04 15:51:36	kensanata	Well... we don't seem to have much else, as far as I can tell, except for sed commands for 10 prompts, or simply appending text using 10 prompts...
2020-08-04 15:51:43	lukee	one thought I had was is there a way to wire up a page editor to one of the preformatted areas on a page
2020-08-04 15:52:21	lukee	then use an in-page link to "submit" the edited content of the region back to the server
2020-08-04 15:52:56	lukee	Agree with you about the 10 input type - not adequate for this kind of thing
2020-08-04 15:52:57	kensanata	Hm. At first glance that seems even more complicated?
2020-08-04 15:53:22	lukee	the advantage is that it could be intergrated with the displayed page
2020-08-04 15:53:30	kensanata	And how would "submit" be different from something like Titan?
2020-08-04 15:53:33	lukee	like a text area on a web page: edit this page
2020-08-04 15:53:41	kensanata	Hm.
2020-08-04 15:53:43	lukee	possibly similar
2020-08-04 15:54:08	lukee	but my impression is titan assumes the content is file based
2020-08-04 15:54:28	kensanata	I don't think so... where does that impression come from?
2020-08-04 15:54:59	kensanata	Like, is a PUT request on the web "file based"?
2020-08-04 15:55:02	lukee	I should read the "spec"  again - what is the best reference?
2020-08-04 15:55:36	lukee	For example can you use titan to submit content to a CGI end point?
2020-08-04 15:55:43	lukee	with query params in the uri?
2020-08-04 15:56:06	kensanata	I'd probably start with something like this: https://transjovian.org:1965/page/Writing
2020-08-04 15:56:42	kensanata	The OpenSSL section is basically the protocol exposed, so as a developer, I find that to be the most concise because I can experiment immediately.
2020-08-04 15:57:13	kensanata	https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan has a bit more explanation.
2020-08-04 15:57:26	lukee	this links through to gemini://communitywiki.org:1966/Titan but I can seem to get there
2020-08-04 15:58:09	lukee	I'll look at that community wiki page on http
2020-08-04 15:59:00	lukee	that page states: "There is no question mark after the URL" which to me suggests a rather limited type of end point
2020-08-04 15:59:10	kensanata	Uh?
2020-08-04 15:59:26	lukee	so for example, if your resources come out of a CMS/database with a query string
2020-08-04 15:59:55	lukee	thus: gemini://domain/path/to/endpoint?id=XYZ - how do you write to it?
2020-08-04 15:59:56	kensanata	If that's the only aspect that's holding you back, let's add a questionmark. But I feel that the RFC itself has no opinions about the semantics. We can do it like the web, but we don't have to.
2020-08-04 16:00:36	kensanata	gemini://domain/path/to/endpoint;mime=text/pain;size=5;token=hello?id=XYZ
2020-08-04 16:00:45	kensanata	titan://domain/path/to/endpoint;mime=text/pain;size=5;token=hello?id=XYZ (titan scheme of course)
2020-08-04 16:01:09	kensanata	The mime=text/pain;size=5;token=hello parameters are qualifying the "endpoint" resource.
2020-08-04 16:01:45	kensanata	But yeah, if we're using the URL to communicate with a server, then it makes sense to assume that there will always be some URLs that cannot be used.
2020-08-04 16:02:00	lukee	also I worry about a parameterised URL - these tend to get passed around and cached
2020-08-04 16:02:13	kensanata	Like, you could ask me: what happens if I use gemini://domain/path/to/endpoint;mime=text/gemini to serve my page, how do I edit that?
2020-08-04 16:02:38	kensanata	And then I can't give you a good answer because we can't both be using the URL to communicate with the server without any conflict, ever.
2020-08-04 16:02:44	lukee	like the security token inside the URI - just seems awkward to me
2020-08-04 16:03:35	kensanata	It seems to me that in a TLS world we don't have the sort of web caching without a man-in-the-middle attack happening.
2020-08-04 16:04:14	lukee	think about the contrast with HTTP post - the metadata is not part of the uri
2020-08-04 16:04:21	kensanata	In terms of security it's just like using HTTP basic auth, except that we're storing the info in the URL. The alternative is what my previous Gemini Write proposal was...
2020-08-04 16:04:50	kensanata	Sure, we can just use HTTP POST.
2020-08-04 16:05:09	lukee	normally I expect that the URI is the location of the resource in traditional terms
2020-08-04 16:05:32	lukee	what was your Gemini Write proposal?
2020-08-04 16:06:42	kensanata	I have trouble understanding "the URI is the location of the resource in traditional terms" – how do GET requests work, then?
2020-08-04 16:07:00	lukee	you just ask for the resource at the URI, it is sent to you
2020-08-04 16:07:24	kensanata	https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-06-04_Gemini_Upload
2020-08-04 16:07:31	lukee	but it refers to the persistent location of the resource
2020-08-04 16:08:04	kensanata	I don't know. http://example.org/wiki?search=foo
2020-08-04 16:08:38	kensanata	"the persistent location of the resource" doesn't seem to apply to such a program
2020-08-04 16:08:47	lukee	I think I prefer that type of approach to titan
2020-08-04 16:09:24	lukee	yes it does, the url you gave refers to the resource that is the search results for foo
2020-08-04 16:09:39	lukee	its not to say the resource is static
2020-08-04 16:10:30	lukee	gemini+write seems closer to HTTP POST, and does not have cacheable metadata
2020-08-04 16:10:31	kensanata	How about you make a counter proposal in a reply to https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/002034.html
2020-08-04 16:11:13	lukee	I should do... but it seems to raise quite a few hackles when this is brought up (I dont understand why myself)
2020-08-04 16:11:21	kensanata	There, you'll also find the summary of Sean Conner's proposal.
2020-08-04 16:11:44	kensanata	I don't know about hackles. For the most time, it seems that nobody seems to care other than me,
2020-08-04 16:12:21	kensanata	and I'd love to simply see one other person write some code that actually works, in a real scenario.
2020-08-04 16:12:52	kensanata	I'm convinced I could change my implementations quicker than it is taking me to convince anybody to do anything, haha.
2020-08-04 16:13:11	lukee	good on you!
2020-08-04 16:13:51	kensanata	My impression is that many people don't want to invest the energy to code something up, but they are also not happy with what has been proposed, so they're waiting for the perfect proposal to appear from somewhere, but that's never going to happen.
2020-08-04 16:13:59	kensanata	Unless we do it.
2020-08-04 16:15:04	kensanata	Anyway, gotto feed some rodents in the neighbourhood. Talk to you later.
2020-08-04 16:15:36	lukee	ok no problem. I agree with what you said there BTW
2020-08-04 16:15:38	kevinsan	i think embracing other protocols to do what's needed is the sensible thing to do, with least friction and best leverage of existing tech
2020-08-04 16:17:18	lukee	kevinsan: and also to have the benefit of the wider cultural and conceptual debugging
2020-08-04 16:17:26	kevinsan	gemini's gopher-level simplicity is its strength. something that crossed my mind was to run a simplified HTTP server on port 1993 (when was http invented, i forget)
2020-08-04 16:17:55	lukee	my understanding is gopher and http came out more or less the same time
2020-08-04 16:18:35	kevinsan	the real point of gemini for me is to be separate from ports 80/443 that have been hijacked by companies exploiting the hoi polloi :)
2020-08-04 16:19:29	companion_cube	http1.1 is pretty neat
2020-08-04 16:20:13	kevinsan	so, HTTP is a great protocol that's had its home trashed - one benefit of running on a separate port with fewer 'features' means that it is less interesting to hostile parties.
2020-08-04 16:22:46	lukee	if it is a success, there will be hostile parties
2020-08-04 16:23:01	lukee	but hopefully just a few bad bots running round
2020-08-04 16:23:26	kevinsan	there's been so much talk about how to 'enhance' gemini for various purposes, and it seems needlessly destructive of what gemini is when there are other ways to achieve the goals.
2020-08-04 16:23:34	lukee	the trick is to consciously stop at the "sweet spot"
2020-08-04 16:23:55	lukee	but there is not a full consensus where that sweet spot is
2020-08-04 16:24:20	companion_cube	the subset that dillo supports? :D
2020-08-04 16:24:28	kevinsan	on bots, i think we should welcome them. I believe that the recent bot fiasco was some bad code - the intention was probably not hostile, just duff code
2020-08-04 16:24:58	lukee	but there will be bad bots, even if some script kiddie trying to have a "laugh"
2020-08-04 16:25:18	lukee	its a measure of success to be attacked
2020-08-04 16:25:28	kevinsan	so, someone tried to do something and messed up. like we all do. i think hostility towards bots is rooted in the hostile-web
2020-08-04 16:26:00	kevinsan	by the way, when i mention 'hostile' web, I mean ad-tech and tracking, and everything that comes from it.
2020-08-04 16:27:25	kevinsan	they hate bots (that are not their own!) because they screw up their stats and data. So, anything automated gets bad mouthed by these people. Google, of all companies, does this. Astonishingly hypocritical.
2020-08-04 16:27:55	lukee	come and embrace Googlebot - he/she/it loves you!
2020-08-04 16:28:32	lukee	its an interesting stance for Gemini to be bot-friendly
2020-08-04 16:28:59	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 16:29:15	thewetcrab	Hello, where can I learn to write gemini markup?
2020-08-04 16:29:25	kevinsan	bots are wonderful - gemini is so light that 1000 bot requests == ~1 typical CNN page.
2020-08-04 16:29:56	lukee	thewetcrab: see under resources for beginners on gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/
2020-08-04 16:30:30	thewetcrab	is there a HTTP version of the docs *jeeehz for give me for even asking that*
2020-08-04 16:31:24	lukee	thewetcrab: here is a web proxy of the same page: https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/
2020-08-04 16:31:31	thewetcrab	Thanks!
2020-08-04 16:32:07	thewetcrab	I really like that gemini is trying to be respectful to users!
2020-08-04 16:32:19	thewetcrab	Gemini don't have websites they have capsules ...... is that correct?
2020-08-04 16:32:19	lukee	kevinsan: you're right, but many of the servers are running on small machines like rpi
2020-08-04 16:32:28	thewetcrab	I have a rpi :)
2020-08-04 16:32:35	lukee	me too
2020-08-04 16:33:00	thewetcrab	What do you run on yours?
2020-08-04 16:33:04	lukee	capsules/sites/gemsites/servers
2020-08-04 16:33:15	thewetcrab	gemsites - I like that "_
2020-08-04 16:33:15	lukee	molly brown
2020-08-04 16:33:29	thewetcrab	molly brown? What is that?
2020-08-04 16:33:35	kevinsan	see how many requests/second you can get on a pi - it's still likely to be absurdly fast (depending on SD card type etc)
2020-08-04 16:33:47	lukee	molly brown is one of the gemini servers
2020-08-04 16:35:01	thewetcrab	Just reading a post about the fear of missing out and how constantly pushing new content means people keep checking feeds.
2020-08-04 16:35:01	thewetcrab	I'm thinking a head, but would this some how mean that gemsites only for instance push content on a 'Monday'?
2020-08-04 16:35:10	lukee	kevinsan: yes you're right. I'm just naturally cautious about how hard these small servers and connections should be pushed
2020-08-04 16:35:34	thewetcrab	for instance all new articles and information gets pushed on a certain day?
2020-08-04 16:35:53	thewetcrab	I wish I could make sure I only got email on 1 day of the week. Then everyone saves their messages for the rest of the week.
2020-08-04 16:35:57	thewetcrab	lololololol
2020-08-04 16:36:04	thewetcrab	Not sure if I am being serious or silly!
2020-08-04 16:36:12	lukee	people write whenever they feel like it. I think the point some are making is we have become addicted to constant content
2020-08-04 16:36:29	lukee	email one day a week: bliss
2020-08-04 16:38:35	thewetcrab	Yes I agree, I think I am one of those people who checks far to often. Now I am aware of the dangers I try to minimize, but I am aware that the information is constantly flowing. I guess that then feeds my fear of FOMO ......
2020-08-04 16:38:53	thewetcrab	I have to go shortly, but will you be here to discuss later lukee?
2020-08-04 16:40:37	thewetcrab	does gemtext have any formatting options, (something like CSS?) or can it only be marked up in a HTML kinda way?
2020-08-04 16:40:38	lukee	I do hang out here from time to time. If you dont come back soon, you might miss out ;-)
2020-08-04 16:40:45	thewetcrab	I need to get myself a gembrowser.
2020-08-04 16:40:46	kensanata	thewetcrab: Not really.
2020-08-04 16:40:54	thewetcrab	ha ha thanks for that lukee :D
2020-08-04 16:41:08	thewetcrab	Well, I think I'm going to split, but I will be back later :)
2020-08-04 16:41:23	kensanata	thewetcrab: Well, if your client does something to make the content look nice it probably does the same thing to all the sites... the site's author is probably not in control.
2020-08-04 16:41:29	thewetcrab	Thanks for answering my questions and guiding me on my gem journey :D
2020-08-04 16:42:12	thewetcrab	When I was referring to styling I was referring to this page - https://christine.website/blog/gemini-web-fear-missing-out-2020-08-02
2020-08-04 16:42:24	thewetcrab	I like the background colour, font colour, link colours etc
2020-08-04 16:42:46	kensanata	I'm ... using a text browser right now! :D
2020-08-04 16:43:06	kensanata	But I think I remember the site. So the answer is no, people cannot do this to their Gemini sites.
2020-08-04 16:43:16	lukee	Different gemini clients have different formatting options. But usually it is in the control of the end user the look and feel to a certain degree
2020-08-04 16:45:02	lukee	The author of that site (Cadey) has written a browser which renders content in a similar way - I think its called Majc or similar
2020-08-04 16:45:58	lukee	gemini://cetacean.club/maj/majc.gmi
2020-08-04 16:46:24	thewetcrab	The wrote their own browser?
2020-08-04 16:46:33	lukee	A few of has have
2020-08-04 16:46:46	thewetcrab	gee wow!
2020-08-04 16:46:55	thewetcrab	I'm way out of my depth in that case!
2020-08-04 16:46:59	lukee	this is mine (but Windows only) https://www.marmaladefoo.com/pages/geminaut
2020-08-04 16:47:13	lukee	not at all, you're very welcome
2020-08-04 16:47:47	kevinsan	thewetcrab, I have not written a browser. you're not alone lol
2020-08-04 16:48:06		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 16:48:08	thewetcrab	I'll try GemiNaut later today.
2020-08-04 16:48:19	lukee	others have built servers or server apps, or provide amazing content
2020-08-04 16:48:24	thewetcrab	I can't wait to try to write my own gemsite
2020-08-04 16:48:41	thewetcrab	Yeah, my skills are way lamer. I'm not a programmer or coder :/
2020-08-04 16:48:46	kevinsan	on that subject lukee - the hover popup for preformatted text feels a bit annoying - does it add anything of value?
2020-08-04 16:48:47	lukee	or even just publish a blog of what they are thinking about today
2020-08-04 16:49:11	thewetcrab	Anyways. I have to go but hope to be back.
2020-08-04 16:49:19	thewetcrab	Hope we get to connect again lukee :)
2020-08-04 16:49:25	kevinsan	thewetcrab, how much other tech lets you moan to your browser vendor and have them respond?
2020-08-04 16:49:26	lukee	kevinsan: if the preformatted area has a label it will be shown
2020-08-04 16:49:27	thewetcrab	Thanks for your help!
2020-08-04 16:49:43	lukee	like this ```ascii art of a book
2020-08-04 16:49:44	thewetcrab	ha ha yeah none kevinsan :')
2020-08-04 16:49:58	thewetcrab	Bye for now!
2020-08-04 16:50:00	lukee	but that is the default. Probably could turn it off if its not specified
2020-08-04 16:50:41	lukee	vendor? - is someone going to pay me for this :)
2020-08-04 16:51:19	kevinsan	haha, creative use of language for comedic effect. I'll post you some cash if you accept sterling.
2020-08-04 16:51:32	lukee	yes please I'm UK based
2020-08-04 16:52:02	lukee	maybe I'll put up a tip jar one day
2020-08-04 16:52:35		thewetcrab has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-04 16:52:58	kevinsan	I tend not to bother with those - it's the commission that irks me. When I donated to Vim's charity, I moved sterling to a Euro account and did a bank transfer.
2020-08-04 16:53:10	kevinsan	I have some mildly autistic traits.
2020-08-04 16:53:29	Cadey	lukee: that's actually my terminal's colorscheme at work
2020-08-04 16:53:36	Cadey	i use gruvbox dark on my terminals and website
2020-08-04 16:54:01	Cadey	also http://cetacean.club/maj/majc.gmi <-- uses the same scheme
2020-08-04 16:54:30	lukee	well you have an admirer of the design of it
2020-08-04 16:54:33	Cadey	:D
2020-08-04 16:55:13	lukee	I have no idea what gruvbox is
2020-08-04 16:55:41	Cadey	https://github.com/morhetz/gruvbox
2020-08-04 16:56:18	lukee	"retro groove colour scheme" :)
2020-08-04 16:56:40	kevinsan	lukee, on the hover popup - do you actually find it useful? I ask because it obscures the meaningful text with text that's of no use to me.
2020-08-04 16:57:30	lukee	I recall there was some discussion about using that space for an "alt text" or other meta description for the content
2020-08-04 16:57:49	lukee	so it seemed not unreasonable to surface that to the user.
2020-08-04 16:58:50	lukee	Sometimes I have no idea what people's ascii art is supposed to be - so it could help me :)
2020-08-04 16:59:57	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 17:00:05	lukee	I might turn it off if there is no content to it
2020-08-04 17:00:51	kevinsan	This is the page that I found it annoying on: gemini://tilde.black/users/brool/stoned.txt
2020-08-04 17:01:00	kevinsan	it has some good ascii art though!
2020-08-04 17:03:21	acdw	great ascii art on the stoned pages, esp brool's
2020-08-04 17:03:27	acdw	really want to know how they made it lol
2020-08-04 17:03:57	lukee	that is a tour de force of ascii art.
2020-08-04 17:03:57	kevinsan	i cherish my ignorance on the subject - helps maintain the magic and awe
2020-08-04 17:05:18	acdw	haha yes! I just do it what I'm sure is the hardest way possible -- text editor and just ... editing
2020-08-04 17:05:25	acdw	it's time-intensive
2020-08-04 17:07:17	lukee	kevinsan: next build of GemiNaut will only show the tooltip if it is non-empty. So the vast majority will have none
2020-08-04 17:07:36	admicos	the only ascii "art" i've done is just copying what figlet gives me
2020-08-04 17:07:47	acdw	lukee: you're talking about the ``` [alt-text] tooltip?
2020-08-04 17:07:52	acdw	b/c that's a great feature
2020-08-04 17:08:21	lukee	yes
2020-08-04 17:08:47	lukee	kevinsan was suggesting there is no need to show the tooltip if the user did not provide any alt-text
2020-08-04 17:08:59	lukee	but if it is provided it will still be shown
2020-08-04 17:09:45	lukee	I think I agree if it was not specified, it seems a bit unecessary to show a tooltip with the default of "preformatted text"
2020-08-04 17:10:32	lukee	[...] no need to show the tooltip if the *author* (not user!) [...]
2020-08-04 17:13:20	acdw	awesome :) -- I agree with that as well
2020-08-04 17:13:43	acdw	Here's a niche concern -- I'd really like a seperate, "verse" line type.
2020-08-04 17:14:17	lukee	how would it be different to other line types?
2020-08-04 17:15:44	Cadey	verse?
2020-08-04 17:15:55	Cadey	like song/poetry verse?
2020-08-04 17:16:17	lukee	so significant whitespace - why not use ```?
2020-08-04 17:17:07	lukee	the only snag is the fixed width font maybe
2020-08-04 17:17:38	kensanata	bouncepaw had an interesting idea that will have Solderpunk and maybe others spinning in orbit: use a type!
2020-08-04 17:17:47	kensanata	```;type=poetry
2020-08-04 17:17:52	lukee	maybe some like their sonnets in teletype format
2020-08-04 17:18:11	kensanata	``` { just add CSS here! }
2020-08-04 17:18:26	lukee	kensanata: yes there are no semantics for that space yet
2020-08-04 17:18:37	lukee	you can put whatever you want
2020-08-04 17:18:50	kensanata	Of course.
2020-08-04 17:19:03	kensanata	Once again, first mover problem.
2020-08-04 17:19:15	kensanata	But bouncepaw wrote this, brainstorming: gemini://tanelorn.city/~bouncepaw/gemlog/megapreformatted.gemini
2020-08-04 17:19:42	lukee	how about this ```post;gemini+write://target/endpoint
2020-08-04 17:20:23	lukee	then the client allows the user to edit the content of the region and submit it
2020-08-04 17:21:00	kensanata	lukee: Interesting. Instead of serving the raw text for people to edit, you'd serve the raw text inside a ``` block, telling the client how to edit it?
2020-08-04 17:21:06	lukee	yes
2020-08-04 17:21:38	lukee	like a sort or minimal form - gemini style
2020-08-04 17:21:42	kensanata	Hm.
2020-08-04 17:21:46	lukee	or -> of
2020-08-04 17:22:09	kensanata	Maybe something that's compatible with bouncepaw's idea, and generalisable: ```type=editable;gemini+write://target/endpoint
2020-08-04 17:22:09	lukee	this is the classic wiki concept - edit the page within the client
2020-08-04 17:23:00	lukee	that is nice
2020-08-04 17:23:05	kensanata	I don't think that's the part that's the most important one (and I've written at least two wiki clients that work within Emacs without using the HTML interface)
2020-08-04 17:23:43	lukee	suitable for a wider range of use cases as well
2020-08-04 17:23:57	lukee	the advantage is the page context describes the purpose of the data
2020-08-04 17:24:18	acdw	It doesn't need to be rendered in a pre-block, but it *does* need spacing and stuff
2020-08-04 17:24:24	acdw	sorry had a work phone call
2020-08-04 17:24:58	acdw	lukee hit it on the head -- significant whitespace & other considerations (wrapping should be indented), but no monospace
2020-08-04 17:25:05	acdw	kensanata: YES
2020-08-04 17:25:06	acdw	lol
2020-08-04 17:25:13	acdw	not really that's anti-gemini
2020-08-04 17:25:21	kevinsan	companion_cube, (from much earlier) yes Dillo looks like a good companion browser for HTTP stuff - can't see what subset it supports though.
2020-08-04 17:26:01	lukee	acdw: well the author never gets to choose the font of the client anyway
2020-08-04 17:26:24	lukee	and significant whitespace only works with monospace in my experience
2020-08-04 17:26:47	kensanata	significant whitespace includes indents and linebreaks, though
2020-08-04 17:27:10	lukee	so how is this different from ```?
2020-08-04 17:27:10	kensanata	and for poetry, that is often enough
2020-08-04 17:27:23	kensanata	poetry that looks like code is not the same
2020-08-04 17:27:38	lukee	but the formatting is controlled by the client
2020-08-04 17:28:12	kensanata	but if we don't agree on some things, then we're going to end up with clients where most of them render poetry like source code.
2020-08-04 17:28:13	lukee	so I may decide I want to use fixed width font for everything
2020-08-04 17:28:21	companion_cube	kevinsan: I'd guess all of http1.1, and a subset of html+css
2020-08-04 17:28:25	companion_cube	wild guess tho
2020-08-04 17:28:30	kevinsan	the client could decide in this case - recognizing it as prose could mean that leading spacing is mono, thereafter the text is proportional
2020-08-04 17:28:59	lukee	kevinsan: some poetry relies on inline alignment
2020-08-04 17:29:07	kensanata	Sure. But somebody else might say: we need a way to indent lines and insert linebreaks without making this indistringuishable from source code. How would you solve it?
2020-08-04 17:29:07	kevinsan	companion_cube, i'll have to read up on http1.1 - guess I'll need the internet archive lol
2020-08-04 17:29:12	lukee	inline -> in-line
2020-08-04 17:29:23	companion_cube	kevinsan: wut, no need, the RFCs are online
2020-08-04 17:29:44	companion_cube	it's also good fun to implement, although it's significantly more work than gemini (TLS excepted)
2020-08-04 17:29:59	acdw	lukee: fair point
2020-08-04 17:30:06	Cadey	the rust book has a section about parsing HTTP/1.1
2020-08-04 17:30:09	lukee	what distinguishes source code from other content?
2020-08-04 17:30:27	acdw	I was 99.5% joking really, it wouldn't ever be acceptaed
2020-08-04 17:30:46	kensanata	in my experience of reading poetry, I have never seen it printed using monospaced fonts
2020-08-04 17:30:48	lukee	its an interesting discussion, but yes you're probably right
2020-08-04 17:31:00	kevinsan	companion_cube, have you any http1.1 implementation that you can donate?
2020-08-04 17:31:10	acdw	a lot of that instagram poetry is monospaced -- typewriter font
2020-08-04 17:31:19	companion_cube	https://github.com/c-cube/tiny_httpd the one I wrote for OCaml (a server)
2020-08-04 17:31:30	acdw	I think it's already pretty much been said that text/gemini isn't getting any more line types
2020-08-04 17:31:32	companion_cube	I think clients might actually be harder, because they have to support more things in the wild in practice
2020-08-04 17:31:40	acdw	tho I still haven't written up my :^) line type proposal
2020-08-04 17:32:01	companion_cube	http1.1 is also pretty powerful already, you can stream things, for example
2020-08-04 17:32:02	kensanata	acdw: take a look at bouncepaw's idea of annotating ``` blocks
2020-08-04 17:32:05	lukee	companion_cube: what do you have in mind?
2020-08-04 17:32:06	companion_cube	so it can be used to download big things
2020-08-04 17:32:31	companion_cube	lukee: nothing in particular, I just find it interesting to reimplement this kind of things
2020-08-04 17:32:41	kensanata	acdw: if you get enough client authors to recognize something like ```type=poetry it would work, no new line type required
2020-08-04 17:32:42	companion_cube	(also, I do use this thing as an embedded server)
2020-08-04 17:32:45	kevinsan	that's beautiful companion_cube
2020-08-04 17:33:27	Cadey	i'm gonna put my rust gemtext builder/parser in its own crate
2020-08-04 17:33:48	acdw	kensanata: this is true facts
2020-08-04 17:33:56	⚡	lukee struggles to work out which conversation is which 
2020-08-04 17:33:57	Cadey	i'm gonna call it gemtext
2020-08-04 17:33:58	acdw	feels like a mutiny lol
2020-08-04 17:34:06	⚡	acdw does the same thing as lukee
2020-08-04 17:34:13	Cadey	i should add preformatted comments to the AST
2020-08-04 17:34:15	acdw	it is quite difficult
2020-08-04 17:34:28	admicos	we should just tag all messages with the topic like #whichconversationiswhich
2020-08-04 17:34:36	kevinsan	the confusion is part of the charm of IRC
2020-08-04 17:34:48	lukee	this is a problem of success at least
2020-08-04 17:34:49	companion_cube	still not worse than slack
2020-08-04 17:35:44	kevinsan	admicos, we don't use hashtags in here. it's the IRC equivalent of farting at a wedding, during the vows
2020-08-04 17:35:51	acdw	yeah I kind of like it -- it's like everyone is talking at one time
2020-08-04 17:35:52	admicos	kevinsan: ouch
2020-08-04 17:36:02	acdw	#thathurt
2020-08-04 17:36:06	companion_cube	#hashtag #rebel
2020-08-04 17:36:08	lukee	it does lighten the mood though
2020-08-04 17:36:12	lukee	#fart
2020-08-04 17:36:23	acdw	oh going to that channel
2020-08-04 17:36:53	companion_cube	💨
2020-08-04 17:36:59	lukee	haha
2020-08-04 17:37:07	kevinsan	haha, what a find!
2020-08-04 17:38:14	acdw	#possiblythebestemoji
2020-08-04 17:38:27	acdw	I always feel like "emoji" singular should be "emojo"
2020-08-04 17:38:28	Cadey	#hashtag
2020-08-04 17:38:44	companion_cube	🐘💨
2020-08-04 17:38:52	companion_cube	(it's not even there for farts, so sad)
2020-08-04 17:38:54	companion_cube	https://emojipedia.org/dashing-away/
2020-08-04 17:39:06	Cadey	acdw: emoji is treated as a mass moun in english, much like you can't say you have one money
2020-08-04 17:39:11	Cadey	but then again
2020-08-04 17:39:14	admicos	emoji should just be singular, the plural should be "emoja"
2020-08-04 17:39:20	Cadey	because it's a loanword from japanese
2020-08-04 17:39:25	Cadey	everything's fucked
2020-08-04 17:39:37	lukee	this is the pleasure of language
2020-08-04 17:39:37	admicos	loan words kill language and you can't say otherwise
2020-08-04 17:39:41	Cadey	(japanese doesn't inflect nouns for plurality)
2020-08-04 17:39:47	lukee	disagree completely about loan words
2020-08-04 17:40:04	admicos	i should've put a /s
2020-08-04 17:40:14	lukee	oops
2020-08-04 17:40:18	Cadey	i'll send you a courriel about it later
2020-08-04 17:40:18	admicos	no it's fine
2020-08-04 17:40:57	lukee	I'll keep my schadenfreude to mysefl
2020-08-04 17:41:01	lukee	myself
2020-08-04 17:41:07	kensanata	This is kindergarten.
2020-08-04 17:41:26	acdw	emojum
2020-08-04 17:41:51	acdw	emoji, emojas, emojarum,
2020-08-04 17:42:07	companion_cube	kevinsan: 🤵👰💨[…]🏩
2020-08-04 17:42:29	acdw	Cadey: a word being a loaner hasn't stopped English from inflecting it Enlgish-style before
2020-08-04 17:43:07	Cadey	acdw: you're expecting language to be consistent
2020-08-04 17:43:08	companion_cube	you should see how english verbs are used in french, they're treated as french verbs, it's funny
2020-08-04 17:43:11	Cadey	english isn't lojban
2020-08-04 17:43:24	Cadey	companion_cube: I live in quebec, it gets really weird
2020-08-04 17:43:41	companion_cube	oh, thus "courriel", heh
2020-08-04 17:43:59	acdw	hahaha Cadey :D
2020-08-04 17:44:16	Cadey	companion_cube: subtle metalinguistic jokes are how i've survived
2020-08-04 17:44:17	acdw	it's funny because I'm an English major through and through, I love how inconsistent language can be, esp. Enlgish
2020-08-04 17:44:19	companion_cube	sacristie de tabernacle
2020-08-04 17:44:20	Cadey	life is pain
2020-08-04 17:44:28	acdw	one day lojban will be within my grasp
2020-08-04 17:44:28	Cadey	get bready for it
2020-08-04 17:44:33	companion_cube	are you a native english speaker?
2020-08-04 17:44:48	acdw	omg that is the funny
2020-08-04 17:44:51	Cadey	acdw: ko viska http://ldlework.com/projects/cards/la-karda/index.html
2020-08-04 17:45:10	acdw	must decide: lojban or toki pona first?
2020-08-04 17:45:37	Cadey	i did toki pona first, but i've found lojban more practically useful
2020-08-04 17:45:52	acdw	that makes sense, more words
2020-08-04 17:47:46	kevinsan	companion_cube, I had to paste that into libreoffice to get it to show - I agree, from my experience honesty is the most successful strategy in a relationship. farts and all.
2020-08-04 17:48:49	companion_cube	I definitely agree
2020-08-04 17:49:10	kensanata	I liked toki pona
2020-08-04 17:49:55	acdw	it's *neat*
2020-08-04 17:50:03	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 17:50:08	acdw	I got permission to gemify some toki pona stuff, Just have to get around to it
2020-08-04 17:50:42	kensanata	Also, I like the simple font, and Maya inspired font.
2020-08-04 17:51:16	acdw	oh yes, those are cool. I would *really* like to ascii-ify the characters to go along with the gemified glossary
2020-08-04 17:51:32	acdw	maybe I'll post on the ML about getting some help with that
2020-08-04 17:51:37	acdw	kensanata would you be interested?
2020-08-04 17:52:01	kensanata	I don't know what "ascii-ify the characters to go along with the gemified glossary" means...
2020-08-04 17:52:33	lukee	why not just link to an image of the characters if not in unicode yet?
2020-08-04 17:52:43	acdw	hm I could do that lukee
2020-08-04 17:52:51	acdw	but I like the inline nature of ascii art
2020-08-04 17:53:00	⚡	lukee shudders
2020-08-04 17:53:05	acdw	hold on a min I'll show ya
2020-08-04 17:53:27	Cadey	i'm considering making a little dictionary for toki pona, i have the whole dictionary in json somewhere
2020-08-04 17:53:33	Cadey	in gemspace that is
2020-08-04 17:53:55	kensanata	I did a spell checking thing... :)
2020-08-04 17:54:02	kensanata	Not in Gemini
2020-08-04 17:54:14	companion_cube	toki pona over gemini
2020-08-04 17:54:17	companion_cube	peak hipsterism
2020-08-04 17:54:21	acdw	\__|__/
2020-08-04 17:54:21	acdw	| \_/ |
2020-08-04 17:54:21	acdw	\_____/
2020-08-04 17:54:26	acdw	oh oops
2020-08-04 17:54:28	kensanata	Ah!
2020-08-04 17:54:32	kensanata	Oh wow.
2020-08-04 17:54:36	acdw	 \__|__/
2020-08-04 17:54:36	acdw	 /     \
2020-08-04 17:54:36	acdw	 | \_/ |
2020-08-04 17:54:36	acdw	 \_____/
2020-08-04 17:54:40	acdw	anyway you get the idea
2020-08-04 17:54:56	acdw	companion_cube: lol
2020-08-04 17:55:02	acdw	Cadey: I support that yes
2020-08-04 17:55:05	lukee	not my cup of tea, but each to their own
2020-08-04 17:55:18	acdw	fair fair
2020-08-04 17:55:35	acdw	Now I'm considering buying a toki pona domain... but maybe not
2020-08-04 17:55:40	acdw	just for gemini obviously
2020-08-04 17:55:58	lukee	I guess the problem is the language glyphs are not in unicode?
2020-08-04 17:56:03	kensanata	Nope
2020-08-04 17:56:12	Cadey	Well teeeeeechinically they are
2020-08-04 17:56:17	lukee	Is there a charset they are in - you dont have to serve utf-8?
2020-08-04 17:56:24	Cadey	but they're using the conlang astral plane area
2020-08-04 17:56:33	acdw	oh no way, that's awesome lool
2020-08-04 17:56:34	Cadey	and that's not universally interpreted
2020-08-04 17:56:39	acdw	so like, Unifont has em? maybe?
2020-08-04 17:56:41	kensanata	acdw: You can have a wiki space on transjovian.org... either transjovian.org/toki or toki.transjovian.org or something like that
2020-08-04 17:56:56	lukee	astral plane: always makes me think of astral projection
2020-08-04 17:57:10	Cadey	
2020-08-04 17:57:26	Cadey	That's from the Lojban part of the conlang astral plane of unicode
2020-08-04 17:57:28	acdw	kensanata: :D awesome
2020-08-04 17:57:32	acdw	I'll email you later
2020-08-04 17:57:35	Cadey	(Specifically zbalermorna)
2020-08-04 17:57:56	Cadey	acdw: I'd doubt it
2020-08-04 17:57:57	acdw	haha I get the little boxes
2020-08-04 17:58:17	acdw	Cadey yeah probably. Honestly the characters in toki pona would be hard to do
2020-08-04 17:58:24	acdw	in little character sized boxes
2020-08-04 17:59:51	acdw	okay bye yall, it lunch time
2020-08-04 17:59:51	acdw	o/
2020-08-04 17:59:52	lukee	can anyone send a pointer to what these look like in real life?
2020-08-04 18:00:02		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-04 18:00:11	lukee	I just get tofu boxes for the characters above
2020-08-04 18:00:34	Cadey	That's my point lol
2020-08-04 18:01:54	lukee	I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona
2020-08-04 18:02:05	lukee	looks like old maya script
2020-08-04 18:04:01	lukee	I can see how conlangs open up a rabbit hole to dive into
2020-08-04 18:06:25	lukee	if I may perhaps drag the subject back to gemini...
2020-08-04 18:07:09	lukee	I was thinking what other kinds of Gemini clients could we imagine if we let our imaginations run?
2020-08-04 18:07:16	kevinsan	companion_cube, does ocaml compile to native code, or does it depend on a separate runtime?
2020-08-04 18:07:49	lukee	for example we have graphical, console and an auditory browser
2020-08-04 18:08:43	companion_cube	kevinsan: it compiles to native code, but there's a GC
2020-08-04 18:08:47	companion_cube	(more or less like, say, Go)
2020-08-04 18:09:04	lukee	I was thinking recently of a sort of menu based browser to navigate up and down the folders of a media server
2020-08-04 18:09:44	kevinsan	what's the resident footprint of your server when running?
2020-08-04 18:11:14	lukee	that you could operate with a single thumb on a mobile phone
2020-08-04 18:11:50	companion_cube	24MB on this machine
2020-08-04 18:14:06	companion_cube	(with a bunch of sqlite and stuff)
2020-08-04 18:14:59	Cadey	wow
2020-08-04 18:15:05	Cadey	the lord of the rings book has like
2020-08-04 18:15:10	Cadey	4 forewords and 3 prologues
2020-08-04 18:15:24	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 18:51:44	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 18:57:27		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-04 19:26:22		mhj has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-04 20:09:33	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 20:38:10	▬▬▶	everbern_1 has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 20:39:04		everbern has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 20:46:08		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-04 20:49:10		everbern_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 20:49:35	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 20:50:51		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-04 20:58:27		Samsai has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91)")
2020-08-04 21:32:57		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 21:41:44		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 21:43:27		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-04 21:44:18	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 21:48:36		wingy has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-04 21:54:52	easeout	the lord of the rings is a lot, in many ways
2020-08-04 22:03:30	@tomasino	return of the king ends like halfway through
2020-08-04 22:03:37	@tomasino	and the second half is the start of the 35 endings
2020-08-04 22:09:44	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 22:10:44	djph	heh
2020-08-04 22:11:01	djph	Cadey: just wait til you get to Two Towers
2020-08-04 22:49:06	▬▬▶	xfnw_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-04 22:51:20		xfnw has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-04 22:52:40	ℹ 	xfnw_ is now known as xfnw
2020-08-04 22:54:34		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-04 23:07:18	easeout	starting lotr = wow look at everything they cut from the movies
2020-08-04 23:07:37	easeout	tom *who*?
2020-08-04 23:09:55	easeout	and why is everyone singing
2020-08-04 23:10:14	easeout	i hope the next reboot is a weird elvish musical.
2020-08-04 23:22:43	login	lord of the rings needs to be a 10+ season tv series
2020-08-04 23:23:05	kevinsan	am i alone in thinking the lotr was a tedious slog? I got to the end of the first book and just found that I couldn't give a crap what happened next.
2020-08-04 23:23:23	easeout	nah you're not alone
2020-08-04 23:23:43	easeout	i find it hard to reread as an adult. though when i was younger i enjoyed it a lot more
2020-08-04 23:23:56	kevinsan	i feel comforted by that response
2020-08-04 23:24:07	easeout	i have low patience for writing that doesn't get to the point, and tolkien is just not about that life
2020-08-04 23:24:35	easeout	can't read adams anymore either. too twisty
2020-08-04 23:25:57	kevinsan	i get that - moreso as i get older, though i have never read much fiction - it's rarely worth the effort. Kafka is quite a compelling author
2020-08-04 23:29:50	kevinsan	i think the lotr films could have made the books interesting, but they were just a CGI w*nkathon - dark scenes, noise, and endless cliches.
2020-08-04 23:30:21	kevinsan	i say endless, i turned off long before the end :)
2020-08-04 23:30:52		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-04 23:38:00	@tomasino	The council of Elrond is long and boring. Picks up after that
2020-08-04 23:38:38	easeout	you can't skip the lord of the rings movies. the memes will pay off forever
2020-08-04 23:39:32	companion_cube	they're taking the hobbits to isengard?
2020-08-04 23:39:39	kevinsan	lol, i am blissfully unaware of the meaning of any lotr memes, nor star wars for that matter, not game of thrones.
2020-08-04 23:40:00	companion_cube	do you like any form of video entertainment? :)
2020-08-04 23:40:01	Cadey	kevinsan: but does this sentence make you breathe manually?
2020-08-04 23:40:06	kevinsan	if this were real life, i'd possibly be stoned to death
2020-08-04 23:40:36	companion_cube	(what's the relation with marijuana?)
2020-08-04 23:41:04	kevinsan	i think the only video entertainment I enjoy atm is satire
2020-08-04 23:41:58	easeout	to isengard! to isengard!
2020-08-04 23:42:23	easeout	one does not simply cat-tank into mordor.
2020-08-04 23:43:14	kevinsan	wow, cat-tank had to be looked up. mega cute!
2020-08-04 23:43:25	easeout	…precious
2020-08-04 23:44:37	kevinsan	we do love our furry pathalogical killers. especially kittens. never has a pathalogical killer been sooo cute!
2020-08-04 23:49:58	kevinsan	is there an existing sitemap generator for Gemini?
2020-08-05 00:20:27	easeout	/usr/bin/tree ;D
2020-08-05 00:35:48	kevinsan	ha, close. i actually did just use 'find' in a bash script. gemini://gemini.susa.net/sitemap_script.gmi
2020-08-05 00:37:25	easeout	cool!
2020-08-05 02:07:28	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 02:32:56		sndr has quit (quit: thelounge on https://tilde.team)
2020-08-05 02:39:10		easeout has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-05 03:53:32		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2020-08-05 03:54:42		jan6 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-05 03:57:16		prisonpotato has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-05 03:57:16		codingquark has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-05 03:58:23		hannu has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-05 04:07:39		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-08-05 04:27:36		lel has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-05 04:27:36		griffin has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-05 04:27:36		Sario528 has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-05 04:27:37		everbern has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-05 04:27:37		admicos has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-05 04:27:37		jbg has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-05 04:27:39	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 04:27:43	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 04:27:52	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 04:27:53	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 04:28:15	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 05:02:22	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 05:02:22	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-08-05 05:03:23	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 05:38:47		djph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-05 05:46:06	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 06:15:26		ben has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-05 06:15:26		everbern has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-05 06:21:26	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 06:21:26	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-08-05 06:22:18	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 07:13:28	▬▬▶	Samsai has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 07:17:35	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 07:26:44	epoch	btw, I'm abusing URI syntax and gemini clients lack of using fragments to make for compact links
2020-08-05 07:27:38	epoch	 gemini://some.server/link#short_description
2020-08-05 07:32:02	epoch	!c DERP=aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa;echo $DERP
2020-08-05 07:32:08	epoch	!c export DERP=aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa;echo $DERP
2020-08-05 07:32:16	epoch	wrong channel. derp
2020-08-05 07:34:43	kensanata	and yet, it looks strangely on-topic
2020-08-05 08:16:14	jan	;-)
2020-08-05 08:35:34	calmbit	i managed to finally actually wrangle SSL into working and managed to make my first successful connection w/ gemini!
2020-08-05 08:47:45	rmgr	Congrats!
2020-08-05 08:56:34	kensanata	Yay!
2020-08-05 08:57:55	calmbit	feels like i'm actually accomplishing something, even if I've got a long ways to go :)
2020-08-05 08:58:23	kensanata	Using bouncepaw's idea of extending ``` blocks using type annotation, here's a proof-of-concept for type=poetry in HTML: https://transjovian.org:1965/test/page/Haiku%20Collection – and probably no effect in your Gemini client: gemini://transjovian.org/test/page/Haiku%20Collection
2020-08-05 08:58:50	kensanata	calmbit: What sort of client are you working on?
2020-08-05 08:59:32	calmbit	probably nothing that hasn't already been done before, but just a little thing in C/ncurses :)
2020-08-05 09:00:05	kensanata	Well, the point of the protocol's simplicity was that everybody and their dog could write their own servers and clients.
2020-08-05 09:00:19	kensanata	As far as I can tell: mission accomplished! 🚀 🚀
2020-08-05 09:02:05	calmbit	absolutely! SSL isn't the easiest thing to get conclusive documentation on, but everything aside from that is beautiful
2020-08-05 09:02:27	kensanata	calmbit: Wait until you get to client certificates... 😢
2020-08-05 09:02:48	calmbit	honestly when I first found gemini i just plain fell in love with it, cuz it's pretty much the type of platform that I've been searching for in terms of raw simplicty
2020-08-05 09:03:18	calmbit	client certifcates scare me, the fact that they have so little documentation available 😅
2020-08-05 09:03:33	calmbit	but the idea itself is beautiful
2020-08-05 09:03:36	kensanata	It took me a while to understand that Markdown was not the pinnacle of text formatting...
2020-08-05 09:30:32	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 09:51:05	@tomasino	Thanks for adding annotations to your preformatted blocks. Accessibility is important
2020-08-05 09:57:04	@tomasino	Reading bouncepaws gemlog, I disagree with the way they're using the alt text block to extend preformatted blocks with different semantic meaning
2020-08-05 09:57:21	@tomasino	I do appreciate the inclusion of alt text though
2020-08-05 09:59:07	kevinsan	calmbit, from what I've seen so far, client certificates are no different from server certificates.
2020-08-05 09:59:40	kevinsan	the server sends its certificate in the handshake, and may also request the client send one in turn
2020-08-05 10:00:26	kevinsan	the library handles all this based on the configuration flags when initialising
2020-08-05 10:01:33	kevinsan	what I have found useful is to read examples from both OpenSSL and GnuTLS - the slight differences in implementation help clarify.
2020-08-05 10:06:34	calmbit	ah, okay - the concept seems simple enough, it's just that openssl's API tends to be really poorly documented
2020-08-05 10:06:51	calmbit	and as a result i can't find nearly as much information about client cert generation/use as I can server cert stuff
2020-08-05 10:07:05	calmbit	but i'll see what i can scrounge up, and I'll definitely try the differential doc scanning
2020-08-05 10:07:08	calmbit	thank you for the pointer!
2020-08-05 10:08:57	kevinsan	they're essentially the same. I can create a server certificate with a CN of say '*.susa.net', and a client certificate with a CN of 'Kevin'. Everything else is the same.
2020-08-05 10:10:58	kevinsan	openssl is a nightmare - a big flat exhaustive API. absurdly inconsistent given the purpose. GnuTLS is much cleaner and better organised, but there seem to be fewer examples.
2020-08-05 10:42:00	calmbit	openssl is probably one of the poorest documented "real world APIs" i've ever had to deal with
2020-08-05 10:42:16	calmbit	i'd be upset if it didn't astound me that this was possible
2020-08-05 10:51:14	kevinsan	calmbit, to be fair it's got a lot of baggage to deal with, and the concepts are esoteric at best. at least the source is there to glean from (Win32 anyone?)
2020-08-05 10:51:58	kevinsan	This talk by Eric Rescorla of Mozilla is really interesting (and quite enlightening) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grRi-aFrbSE
2020-08-05 10:52:20	calmbit	oh lord have mercy, win32 is a domain i have yet to ever enter with any real cognizance or hope
2020-08-05 10:52:30	calmbit	i just pray i'm never face to face with it sans internet
2020-08-05 10:52:44	calmbit	or i'll be just absolutely unendingly done
2020-08-05 10:53:57	calmbit	i'll definitely take a gander at the talk, it looks incredibly interesting, even if some of the finer particulars might go over my head
2020-08-05 11:00:42	kevinsan	lots went over my head but there's still a lot to glean.  the guy talks *fast*, but pause helps on slides.
2020-08-05 11:45:14	kensanata	calmbit: If you want, here's the blog post about my struggles with client certificates from the server side... https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-07-13_Client_Certificates_and_IO%3a%3aSocket%3a%3aSSL_(Perl)
2020-08-05 11:46:30	calmbit	kensanata: ooh! a gemini wiki! this is actually super interesting
2020-08-05 11:46:43	calmbit	i didn't even really think about that kind of use for gemini for some reason
2020-08-05 11:46:54	calmbit	and thinking about it now, I love it
2020-08-05 11:47:16	kensanata	calmbit: Until you realize that Gemini offers no way to edit a resource...
2020-08-05 11:47:40	kensanata	calmbit: That is, twinlog has a Gemini wiki that uses sed commands to edit pages. :)
2020-08-05 11:48:14	kensanata	calmbit: But my implementation requires a non-Gemini tool to upload pages.
2020-08-05 11:50:10	calmbit	well, still - I'd consider Titan to be tangentially related enough to gemini enough to be inclusive
2020-08-05 11:50:18	calmbit	I think it's a super clever pairing
2020-08-05 11:55:24	kensanata	Thanks. :)
2020-08-05 12:01:31	calmbit	the article is super informative, and I'll definitely be looking back to it when I get around to client certs
2020-08-05 12:01:41	kensanata	Thanks!
2020-08-05 12:03:40	calmbit	thanks for the writeup and congrats on getting everything figured out on that end! the project looks super cool and it's defintely turning gears in my head
2020-08-05 12:08:26	kensanata	I'm always interested in talking about wiki stuff, and Gemini stuff, or both. :)
2020-08-05 12:25:29	▬▬▶	lickthecat has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 12:25:37		lickthecat has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-05 12:39:23		rjt_znc has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-05 12:44:30	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 13:08:08		natpen has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-05 14:19:41	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 15:03:16	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 15:48:39	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 15:48:56	hannu	Hi geminauts!
2020-08-05 15:49:38	hannu	I just realized if I were to publish a post titled Ḩ̷̢͚̣̪̰̰̙͚͖̝͔͉̒̓͋̈́͑͑͐͜e̶̹͕̗̫͚̱̭͕̖͈̖̐̊͂͌̇͘͜ͅ ̸͚͇̘̖͕̙̅̈́̈́̽̄̐̑̿̔̌̑͝ͅÇ̴̘͓̽́̑̽͂o̷͍̯̲͈͝ṁ̸̡͈̝̩̫̜̫̭̱̝̭̹͂̍̐̐̄̿̄͆́̈̔̋͒̕ͅę̶̨͈̻̯̪̗̳͇̪̼̟͓́̅͜s̴̖̹͖͑̀͑̾̋͐̈́͌͠͠ it would mess up the CAPCOM page on most clients.
2020-08-05 15:49:40	hannu	Almost did it, then came to my senses.
2020-08-05 15:54:22	rb100	it messed up my irc client too, so that was great.
2020-08-05 15:54:53	Cadey	hannu: do it
2020-08-05 15:59:24	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 16:26:44	calmbit	my terminal handled it okay enough
2020-08-05 16:28:41	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 16:29:27	rb100	calmbit: i was on a serial terminal
2020-08-05 16:29:38	calmbit	rb100: oof, yeah, that'll do it for sure
2020-08-05 16:29:55	rb100	well, am on a serial terminal
2020-08-05 16:32:07	calmbit	is it ASCII only then?
2020-08-05 16:33:29	rb100	yep
2020-08-05 16:34:31	calmbit	huh, that's a pretty cool way to be linked in here tbh
2020-08-05 16:34:34	rb100	green screen and everything.  every time i switch back to this channel it goes berzerk
2020-08-05 16:41:40	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 16:43:58		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-05 16:58:11		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-05 17:05:09	anton	nice messed up my irc client, and mine isn't ascii only
2020-08-05 17:11:34	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 17:17:02	hannu	weechat handles it nicely :shrug:
2020-08-05 17:32:37	makeworld	Amfora master now support emoji favicons, it looks a lot better than I expected
2020-08-05 17:32:57	makeworld	It's such a small clever RFC, in the Gemini spirit. Thanks mozz!
2020-08-05 17:39:32		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-05 17:41:50		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-05 17:47:01	hannu	I love the way amfora is developing
2020-08-05 17:47:32	hannu	especially looking forward to feed support if you make something like you wrote about, makeworld
2020-08-05 17:51:00	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 18:27:16	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 18:31:19	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 18:52:02		anton has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-05 18:53:41	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 18:57:05	▬▬▶	anton has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 18:57:24	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 19:33:54	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 19:48:19		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-05 19:55:00	natpen	makeworld: cool! I can't seem to get the favicons to render in Amfora, but it was enough motivation to add a favicon to GUS, so it's at least present now for others that want it.
2020-08-05 19:55:39	ℹ 	xfnw is now known as xfnw|sparrow
2020-08-05 19:55:51	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 19:57:11		natpen has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-05 19:58:16	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 20:08:11	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/tools/character_gen <-- i used the rand crate and some simple rust to make an NPC backstory generator using tarot card descriptions
2020-08-05 20:08:32		somasis has left #gemini
2020-08-05 20:09:18		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-05 20:13:12	kensanata	Interesting idea.
2020-08-05 20:13:23	kensanata	Is there a ":" missing in the Recent Events line?
2020-08-05 20:13:32	kensanata	e.g. "TemperanceEconomy, moderation, frugality, management, accommodation."
2020-08-05 20:13:51	Cadey	i'm gonna go edit the JSON file by hand to make everything consistent
2020-08-05 20:14:01	Cadey	the person that made this json file had divergent views on formatting
2020-08-05 20:14:11		natpen has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-05 20:24:18	Cadey	lol
2020-08-05 20:24:25	Cadey	it replies in like 300 microseconds
2020-08-05 20:24:28	Cadey	i love rust
2020-08-05 21:10:56	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 21:12:14		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-05 21:19:47	@tomasino	this is fantastic
2020-08-05 21:24:48		Samsai has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91)")
2020-08-05 21:26:46	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 21:29:18		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-05 21:29:33	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 21:48:56	makeworld	hannu: Thanks :) And yes, feed support  will be in v1.5.0 as well
2020-08-05 21:49:27	makeworld	natpen: Hmm you're right, the gus.guru favicon is not being recognized. I will investigate
2020-08-05 21:53:13	makeworld	Ah it's cause it's being served as text/gemini instead of text/plain. I'll switch to just supporting text/*
2020-08-05 21:55:32	makeworld	Yep, works now
2020-08-05 22:05:54		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-05 22:09:59		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-05 22:38:22		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-05 22:38:44	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 22:49:10		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-05 22:52:07	makeworld	tomasino: The tomasino.org gemini cert is expired
2020-08-05 22:52:17	@tomasino	Really?
2020-08-05 22:52:33	@tomasino	I thought I made a 5 year thing
2020-08-05 22:52:46	makeworld	Idk, sorry
2020-08-05 22:54:02	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-08-05 22:55:10	makeworld	tomasino: Looks like still a Let's Encrypt one: https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/tomasino.org/?crt=1
2020-08-05 22:55:22	@tomasino	Hrm
2020-08-05 22:55:30	xfnw|sparrow	:o
2020-08-05 22:55:33	@tomasino	Well I guess I better fix that
2020-08-05 23:21:40		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-05 23:35:18		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-06 00:48:41		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-06 00:56:10	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 01:22:36	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 01:31:07		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-06 01:32:12		xfnw|sparrow has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-06 01:34:44		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-06 01:34:57	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 03:07:27		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-06 06:24:00	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 06:48:33	▬▬▶	Samsai has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 06:50:39	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 08:41:37	kensanata	I never quite appreciated how amazingly flexible URLs are.
2020-08-06 08:41:53	kensanata	=> //alexschroeder.ch/ My Blog
2020-08-06 08:42:12	kensanata	Without a scheme, it will work for both gemini and the web, depending on how you're looking at it.
2020-08-06 08:42:24	kensanata	=> Help
2020-08-06 08:42:46	kensanata	This is a link to the Help page in the same directory.
2020-08-06 08:43:30	kensanata	I guess I just wasn't used to that sort of flexibility because I've been trained to use full URLs or some sort of wiki syntax, and nothing in between.
2020-08-06 10:04:32		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-06 10:56:37	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 11:07:06	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 11:09:18	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 11:14:50		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-06 11:18:43	natpen	makeworld: oh you're right! i switched it back to text/plain, in case you want to make amfora more strict about the favicon content_type again. and now that's working, i have to agree, this looks really nice in practice with amfora's tabs :)
2020-08-06 11:25:29		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-06 11:28:28		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-06 11:31:19		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-06 11:36:48	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 12:00:46	kevinsan	is there a better way to set amfora's default start page, other than to alias the command?
2020-08-06 12:08:46	Cadey	i just realized i accidentally made my gemini server framework incredibly limited, but i'm actually okay with how it turned out
2020-08-06 12:09:01	Cadey	i made it so that it's impractical to host binary assets with it
2020-08-06 12:11:20		anton has left #gemini ("WeeChat 2.9")
2020-08-06 12:12:08	kevinsan	so Cadey, what prevents your framework from sending a binary?
2020-08-06 12:15:39	@tomasino	Fixed the cert on tomasino.org
2020-08-06 12:16:42	@tomasino	I was beating my head against a wall for 20 minutes because I misspelled a filename
2020-08-06 12:18:05	kevinsan	tomasino, it's not helped by the plethora of naming conventions that are used with certs/keys/etc
2020-08-06 12:19:03	@tomasino	Yeah, but it was dumber than that. I accidentally had .cert instead of .crt   in my script
2020-08-06 12:19:45	@tomasino	I'm debugging ncat stuff and checking permissions like a dufus
2020-08-06 12:19:50	@tomasino	Doofus?
2020-08-06 12:19:53	@tomasino	One of those
2020-08-06 12:22:13	Cadey	tomasino: but does this sentence make you breathe manually?
2020-08-06 12:23:08	kevinsan	Cadey, i've seen this sentence twice now, and it *still* makes no sense. can you educate me?
2020-08-06 12:23:47	Cadey	kevinsan: it genuinely makes some people start breathing manually, usually hits people that are more susceptible to suggestion
2020-08-06 12:24:14	kevinsan	lol, quite cruel in a way
2020-08-06 12:24:20	Cadey	however
2020-08-06 12:24:29	Cadey	the real goal of it is to inoculate people against it
2020-08-06 12:25:02	@tomasino	This time I just kept going
2020-08-06 12:25:03	kevinsan	only this particular instance of it. it doesn't help with being susceptible to suggestion
2020-08-06 12:25:22	Cadey	as people experience it more
2020-08-06 12:25:25	Cadey	it has less effect on them
2020-08-06 12:25:33	Cadey	thus creating an inoculation against it
2020-08-06 12:25:38	Cadey	it's literally an anti-meme
2020-08-06 12:25:51	Samsai	Cadey: jokes on you, i just stop breathing every time i see that sentence
2020-08-06 12:25:59	kevinsan	i don't think i know the original meme
2020-08-06 12:26:06	Cadey	there is no meme
2020-08-06 12:26:10	Cadey	that's the meme
2020-08-06 12:26:26	kevinsan	Samsai, that is still manual breathing - you're consciously stopping
2020-08-06 12:27:04	kevinsan	(presumably you do restart evenually, of course!)
2020-08-06 12:27:13	Samsai	kevinsan: only if you define holding your breath as breathing :P
2020-08-06 12:27:33	Cadey	Samsai: is zero a number?
2020-08-06 12:27:38	kevinsan	it's part of the process of breathing, yes.
2020-08-06 12:27:55	Cadey	because if zero is a number, then stopping breath is controlling your breathing
2020-08-06 12:28:23	Samsai	Cadey: i shall not fall victim to your mathemagicks
2020-08-06 12:29:00	kevinsan	not quite - dijiridoo players breath in a circular way
2020-08-06 12:35:32	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 12:35:37	hannu	yes, through the nose while pushing air forward with their cheeks. it still includes stopping between inhaling and exhaling.
2020-08-06 12:36:26	hannu	ie. didgeridoo is played only in part by breathing
2020-08-06 12:36:36		natpen has quit (quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 26.3)
2020-08-06 12:37:47	hannu	Cadey: does this sentence increase your heart rate, though?
2020-08-06 12:38:10	Cadey	hannu: do you think i would out things out there that I am not immune to?
2020-08-06 12:38:21	hannu	:D
2020-08-06 12:38:27	kevinsan	hannu, yes, but there's not necessarily a specific point where exhalation stops and inhalation begins (e.g. lungs are not digital devices)
2020-08-06 12:40:08	hannu	Cadey: what about this oN̴͕͑E̸̮̅ ̵̯̉h̸̜̃E̶̘̍_̶̰̋ć̷̲O̴̲͒M̷͓̽e̷̪͊S̵̻̀
2020-08-06 12:40:24	hannu	kevinsan: sorry for falling for a red herring
2020-08-06 12:40:30	⚡	Cadey explodes into recursively exploding bricks
2020-08-06 12:40:45	kevinsan	don't know about Cadey but that sentence did raise by blood pressure
2020-08-06 12:41:02	hannu	you're right about breathing not requiring stopping
2020-08-06 12:41:20	hannu	still, stopping your breathing is almost always manual
2020-08-06 12:41:54	hannu	I guess I'm holding my breath automatically underwater, but if I do it sitting on a couch it's always manual.
2020-08-06 12:43:54	kevinsan	it has always been manual thus far, but at some point in the future someone might suffocate you from behind. just saying.
2020-08-06 12:44:30	hannu	On second thought I never breathe manually. It's always pulmonary. I do breathe conciously pulmonarily at times. :)
2020-08-06 12:47:01	kevinsan	yeah, I didn't really get what 'breathing manually' was anyway.
2020-08-06 12:47:49	kevinsan	i had images of ventilators in mind, went off on a though-tangent, then realised it probably couldn't be joked much about in these says of SARS
2020-08-06 12:54:00	hannu	I wonder if people in North Korea and Turkmenistan joke about COVID-19
2020-08-06 12:54:31	hannu	I mean, people here in Finland joked about it back in February before it hit us
2020-08-06 12:55:04	hannu	not saying those countries aren't hit, just that their official propaganda says they have no infections
2020-08-06 12:56:09	hannu	also, I wonder if it will be years or decades before the survivors start joking about this pandemic, or will it only be the next generation
2020-08-06 13:08:34	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 13:36:20	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 13:36:47	kensanata	Interesting to see that I can also get gemlog.blue posts via HTTPS... https://gemlog.blue/users/acdw/1596293616.gmi
2020-08-06 13:48:24	kevinsan	kensanata, i'm starting to see screen time in terms of productive vs non-productive. the more time i spend consuming, the less time i spend producing. consumption is only valuable if it contributes to production.
2020-08-06 13:51:47	kevinsan	social media (and modern web generally) is designed for compulsive consumption. i think most people are susceptible, but traditional tv can be just as bad (who hasn't had a box-set marathon).
2020-08-06 13:54:50	kevinsan	i've never had a facebook account (ugh!), deleted twitter/linkedin, and avoid as much of mainstream web as i can now. the Internet is probably 10 sites to me lol
2020-08-06 13:55:03	kensanata	I don't know. That sounds awefully reductive to me. Some activities worth discussing might be reading books, hanging out and chatting with friends; there's a line somewhere and beyond it lies a capitalist view that only productive time is valuable time, and I don't share that point of view; the question then becomes: how productive do the hours have to be?
2020-08-06 13:56:11	kensanata	I did delete my Facebook and Twitter accounts once I realized that my posts weren't getting any replies and I didn't feel like shouting into the void.
2020-08-06 13:56:37	kensanata	Or at least, not the kinds of responses I was hoping for.
2020-08-06 13:58:08	kevinsan	i'm realising that I have been over-exposed to fiction my entire life. kids tv, advertising, drama, soaps, films (and books if i'd been much of a reader)
2020-08-06 14:00:09	kevinsan	so i think even reading books is included. not that I think any of those things is inherently bad (well, i consider most advertising emotional abuse)
2020-08-06 14:00:12	kensanata	I'm reading your position as: I want to create more and consume less; but who are you creating for? Yourself? Others? Do the others consume what you create, or use it, in a kind of technological or utilitarian progression of people helping each other – but towards what? I'm not a farmer, so eventually we're back at story telling in some sort of way, I think.
2020-08-06 14:00:31	kensanata	Yeah, let's ignore ads. :D
2020-08-06 14:01:51	kevinsan	that hits on something that's been bugging me - youtubers who say "let me know what you want me to do" - it's so needy.
2020-08-06 14:02:12	kensanata	Many bloggers, too
2020-08-06 14:02:20	kensanata	(Coming from the RPG world.)
2020-08-06 14:02:41	kevinsan	exactly! it's the essence of needy - these people want to be want to be watched, because they'll do anything for revenue
2020-08-06 14:03:47	kevinsan	but sometimes it's just wanting to be praised, still needy, but for a slightly different objective. I probably fall into the latter, since I'm not particularly money-driven
2020-08-06 14:04:09	kensanata	Doesn't have to be. I could also us it as criticism of your position: they don't want to consume, they want to create: but if all their friends are busy writing blog posts and making podcasts, there's nobody left to consume what they create...
2020-08-06 14:05:05	kensanata	What I mean to say, I guess, is that this extends into the non-commercial realm.
2020-08-06 14:05:44	hannu	It's ironic that hundreds of millions of people are compulsively consuming whatever they get their hands on, yet it's awfully difficult to get *anyone* to consume *your* content :D
2020-08-06 14:05:53	kensanata	Hahahahaha
2020-08-06 14:05:55	kensanata	Ouch!
2020-08-06 14:06:16	kensanata	Let alone use your software. :D
2020-08-06 14:06:54	hannu	I used to write facebook posts but almost nobody liked let alone commented them. Then I started blogging. With no equivalent of likes and no analytics I have no idea if I have readers. Much better than knowing there's none!
2020-08-06 14:07:31	kevinsan	i think that there's a lot to say on the subject of motivation to produce, and I have a 6 year old demanding my attention. so it will have to wait/
2020-08-06 14:07:43	kensanata	Hah
2020-08-06 14:07:53	kensanata	Kids is of course a good answer for many of us.
2020-08-06 14:07:58	hannu	I'm pretty sure my gemlog has much more readers than my blog just because the community is small.
2020-08-06 14:09:05	hannu	I've got 5 year old twins. Of course they're the priority, but daddy needs hobbies to stay sane :)
2020-08-06 14:09:58	hannu	It's important to be a good father but it's also important to not only be that.
2020-08-06 14:10:08	kevinsan	hannu, there's a whole pile of stuff to be said on your gemlog comment too! the community of people who have any interest whatsoever in obscure simplified TCP/IP protocols is bound to have quite a lot in common
2020-08-06 14:10:17	kevinsan	yet probably diverse in so many other ways
2020-08-06 14:11:23	kevinsan	it gets to what's been lost by monolithic platforms that deceives us into considering them 'communities' of any sort. Reddit is slightly excepted there, but their algorithms game you to f*ck
2020-08-06 14:11:32	kevinsan	anyway, time to play with the boy...
2020-08-06 14:11:47	kevinsan	that's not a euphemism
2020-08-06 14:11:49	kevinsan	:)
2020-08-06 14:12:19	hannu	:)
2020-08-06 14:20:15	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 14:39:02	scottjoe	I kind of ended up here for the same reason. I bought a sub to NYTimes to have one source of decent information, but I still wish it was _just_ the information...even with a good news source, I'm still on stimulation overload...
2020-08-06 14:40:02	scottjoe	I ordered a ReMarkable2 and Mutida phone to move to e-ink and limit my device's ability to move the line of information flow. Which is pretty much what it does...always tries to move the line
2020-08-06 14:41:00	scottjoe	In general... I just want everything to take a few steps back. Work, life, politics. It all needs to chill a little lol.
2020-08-06 14:42:16	scottjoe	As a frontend dev, Gemini feels like a vacation. Something that forces the job back into the realm of "first, be useful." Where so much these days is polish first and substance second.
2020-08-06 14:42:43	scottjoe	I haven't used IRC in probably 15 years, so even this is a departure.
2020-08-06 14:44:23	scottjoe	And having a kid has really shifted the amount of time and energy I have to give to things. So yeah...a few minutes on Twitter can drain me pretty fast, so...I just don't anymore.
2020-08-06 14:44:35	makeworld	kevinsan: Right now you can't change the start page. You can change the homepage, but you only access it with Ctrl-H. Feel free to create an issue, or keep using the alias :)
2020-08-06 15:24:08	⚡	Cadey makes note to self to add homepage setting to majc
2020-08-06 15:30:40		admicos has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-06 15:41:16	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 15:51:03	kevinsan	makeworld, thanks, Ctrl-H is convenient enough (must have read that key as g)
2020-08-06 15:56:30	kevinsan	scottjoe, I'm pretty sure your sentiment would chime many here. the net has changed a lot in the past 10 years, plenty of great stuff, but also plenty not so much!
2020-08-06 16:01:55		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-06 16:39:17		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-06 16:40:09	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 16:55:45	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 16:56:50	▬▬▶	thegiant has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 17:06:59	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 17:10:21	scottjoe	kevinsan thanks. I think that's what draws me to the technology and the community. Working in the industry, I have less and less interest in consuming it. There's more and more money in it, and (probably because of the money) there's less and less innovation. More derivative works to sneak a margin out of some edge case
2020-08-06 17:14:23	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 17:15:26	scottjoe	So, I'm really interested in how I can more of what I need on Gemini. I've been thinking about what I could move to Gemini. Aside from static files, I'm thinking maybe a news scraper might be the first stop.
2020-08-06 17:16:04	scottjoe	I'm really interested in this open source e-reader project out there and whether I could somehow line it up with Gemini to read documents stored there. Not sure yet. Just kicking around some ideas
2020-08-06 17:17:47	Sario	Who was it that was planning on putting Gemini content on an e-reader?
2020-08-06 17:18:04	makeworld	Sario: It was Cadey, of cetecean.club
2020-08-06 17:18:19	scottjoe	I was on there yesterday looking at their Git repos
2020-08-06 17:18:26	makeworld	*cetacean.club
2020-08-06 17:18:27	Sario	Thank you. I'm bad with names
2020-08-06 17:18:29	Cadey	Sario: hi there
2020-08-06 17:18:37	Sario	Hello Cadey
2020-08-06 17:18:55	Sario	How are you today?
2020-08-06 17:19:03	Cadey	kinda tired, but i'm waking up still
2020-08-06 17:19:26	Cadey	been working on automating automation of automation at work
2020-08-06 17:19:46	scottjoe	lovely
2020-08-06 17:19:46	Sario	Sounds recursive
2020-08-06 17:19:58	Cadey	terraform is a pit of hell
2020-08-06 17:20:19	scottjoe	ha
2020-08-06 17:21:02	scottjoe	Cadey have you got anything written down on how gemini -> e-reader might work?
2020-08-06 17:21:58	makeworld	gemtext -> markdown, then markdown -> epub using pandoc?
2020-08-06 17:22:20	makeworld	Write a foreword, and you're good to go ;)
2020-08-06 17:22:30	scottjoe	I've worked with pandoc some..
2020-08-06 17:22:56	Cadey	scottjoe: at a high level it's going to be an atom feed parser, download articles, group them by author, download the gemtext, parse it into an AST, render that AST to HTML, render that HTML and some dynamic markdown based on other metadata (date, etc) into an eBook using pandoc, etc
2020-08-06 17:23:17	Cadey	and why HTML you might ask?
2020-08-06 17:23:23	scottjoe	lol interesting
2020-08-06 17:23:27	Cadey	pandoc's markdown implementation is overly pedantic
2020-08-06 17:25:16	makeworld	How so?
2020-08-06 17:25:27	Cadey	it doesn't have soft paragraph breaks
2020-08-06 17:26:11	Cadey	i found this out when I was publishing my book, i had to put some free verse in fixed width blocks
2020-08-06 17:26:36	makeworld	I'm not sure what you mean
2020-08-06 17:27:12	makeworld	What about this? https://spec.commonmark.org/0.29/#hard-line-breaks
2020-08-06 17:27:32	Cadey	https://gist.github.com/Xe/b5c087c122beef46e97aa9f9f3cf6fed
2020-08-06 17:27:46	Cadey	highlight the raw markdown file and see the two spaces at the end of the first hi there
2020-08-06 17:27:54	Cadey	that makes it a soft line break
2020-08-06 17:28:00	Cadey	except with pandoc markdown
2020-08-06 17:28:02	makeworld	Yeah ok, like what I linked
2020-08-06 17:28:21	Cadey	oh
2020-08-06 17:28:24	makeworld	Markdown spec calls them hard line breaks lol, that's why I was confused
2020-08-06 17:28:25	Cadey	it's hard line breaks
2020-08-06 17:28:27	Cadey	okay
2020-08-06 17:28:32	Cadey	i understand
2020-08-06 17:28:36	makeworld	Anyway pandoc doesn't support that??
2020-08-06 17:28:45	Cadey	...apparently it does
2020-08-06 17:28:51	⚡	Cadey facepalms
2020-08-06 17:29:14	makeworld	Oh okay lol
2020-08-06 17:29:19	makeworld	🎉
2020-08-06 17:30:08	makeworld	Yay!
2020-08-06 17:30:24	Cadey	i'll probably work on this more this weekend
2020-08-06 17:30:51	makeworld	Excited to see the results!
2020-08-06 17:43:14		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-06 18:50:18	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 19:11:40	makeworld	I was thinking about how you could easily build a Gemini proxy, akin to Squid for the web
2020-08-06 19:12:01	makeworld	And make use of Gemini's built in proxy ability, by sending the actual URLs to the proxy instead
2020-08-06 19:12:28	makeworld	I'm going to add proxying support to gemget and Amfora, but there's no server implementation of this afaik
2020-08-06 19:14:12	Cadey	is there a spec for CGI for gemini servers?
2020-08-06 19:17:31	makeworld	What do you mean?
2020-08-06 19:17:59	Cadey	like what environment variables and semantics to have so i can implement a handler for it
2020-08-06 19:18:08	makeworld	There is a CGI RFC, it's a standard. It boils down to executing files and passing variables
2020-08-06 19:18:21	makeworld	I would look at the RFC, and then at what variables Jetforce uses
2020-08-06 19:18:26	Cadey	fair
2020-08-06 19:18:39	makeworld	As it adds some custom ones. But there is no spec/std for CGI on Gemini
2020-08-06 19:18:56	makeworld	It'd be nice for servers not to diverge too much on the special Gemini keys
2020-08-06 19:39:30		thegiant has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-06 19:47:20	epoch	I've been adding CGI stuff to my gemini server
2020-08-06 19:48:18	epoch	nobody uses it except me, but I try to stay as close to the CGI1.1 RFC as I can.
2020-08-06 19:48:50	epoch	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3875 btw
2020-08-06 19:49:18	epoch	SSL_TLS_SNI is what I use to let the CGI scripts know what hostname was requested with the SNI
2020-08-06 19:49:31	epoch	because... that's what apache does.
2020-08-06 19:53:17	kevinsan	epoch, does your server code have a public repository? more specifically, what language are you using?
2020-08-06 19:53:25	epoch	shell-script.
2020-08-06 19:53:31	epoch	and I think it is up somewhere.
2020-08-06 19:53:40	epoch	haven't done a commit and push in a while
2020-08-06 19:53:42	kevinsan	bash?
2020-08-06 19:53:55	epoch	yeah
2020-08-06 19:57:23	epoch	git://batou.thebackupbox.net/shell-daemons
2020-08-06 19:57:32	epoch	also has an httpd also written in shell-script
2020-08-06 19:57:43	epoch	and a gopherd
2020-08-06 19:57:49	kevinsan	thanks. does it block on port 1965 when processing a request, or does it hand off to a subshell?
2020-08-06 19:58:01	epoch	stunnel does that part
2020-08-06 19:58:10	epoch	I don't have that included in that repo. >_>
2020-08-06 19:58:30	epoch	I wrote them to be ran from inetd-like things
2020-08-06 19:59:12	kevinsan	that's great - look forward to browsing that if and when you do a push
2020-08-06 19:59:12	epoch	stunnel was the only inetd-like thing I found (so far) that had SNI support
2020-08-06 19:59:33	epoch	I'll do it now.
2020-08-06 19:59:59	kevinsan	don't feel rushed - i don't want you to pollute your commits
2020-08-06 20:02:08	kevinsan	is uritools a python lib?
2020-08-06 20:02:08	epoch	annoyingly, I've been editing stunnel code to get more information into env vars
2020-08-06 20:02:24	epoch	because the SNI host info isn't exported by default
2020-08-06 20:02:34	epoch	or some other things I'd like to set for CGIs to use
2020-08-06 20:03:00	epoch	I might have to start poking the stunnel people with patches
2020-08-06 20:03:34	kevinsan	is there nothing you could just grep from the logs at runtime?
2020-08-06 20:04:20	epoch	oh. that might work. but it seems gross.
2020-08-06 20:04:52	kevinsan	gross is fine - when I time the stuff i do in shell, it's astonishing how performant it all is.
2020-08-06 20:06:52	kevinsan	even launch a process that tail -f|grep the log or something like that, pushing the results somewhere to read (ok, memcache is in mind, but that complicates things)
2020-08-06 20:07:27	epoch	yeah... I'd rather just add 3 lines to stunnel
2020-08-06 20:08:16	kevinsan	in these days of easy forks on github, why not indeed
2020-08-06 20:09:55	kevinsan	ha - i just spent 15 seconds trying to cd into geminid - that confused me. Concise!
2020-08-06 20:14:28	kevinsan	that's pretty cool epoch, i must try it out later
2020-08-06 20:19:07	epoch	I think I have a page on my website about how I have stunnel setup for gemini
2020-08-06 20:19:51	epoch	https://thebackupbox.net/cgi-bin/pageview.cgi?page=stunnel
2020-08-06 20:21:15	epoch	that reminds me somehow that I need to change how my link shortener over gemini works.
2020-08-06 20:21:48	epoch	if the request URI is different from the SNI I can use that as a link submission.
2020-08-06 20:21:59	epoch	instead of using /submit
2020-08-06 20:22:07	epoch	and the URI as a query string
2020-08-06 20:22:30	epoch	dunno how many clients would support that though
2020-08-06 20:23:54	epoch	I'd do it like: gemini-get gemini-proxy://epo.k.vu/any://other/URL-gets-passed-as-request
2020-08-06 20:24:52	epoch	oh. heh. right now I have my epo.k.vu actually acting as a proxy.
2020-08-06 20:25:07	epoch	not sure which is neater.
2020-08-06 20:27:48	epoch	I don't really suggest trying to get some of my stuff working unless you're fine either figuring out all the dog food I've written that everything else eventually depends on, or editing that stuff out.
2020-08-06 20:28:15	epoch	like, uristart being ran from inside geminid when a request is proxied
2020-08-06 20:28:55	epoch	though it probably uses uricut anyway
2020-08-06 20:28:58	epoch	which is the same repo
2020-08-06 20:29:09	epoch	but uristart requires setting up a config file
2020-08-06 20:33:24	kevinsan	i'm kind of drawn to the established unix tools, so i'm quite interested the stuff you've done. figuring out the dog food is really part of the fun.
2020-08-06 20:33:44	kevinsan	(though your code looks pretty good to my eyes at least)
2020-08-06 20:34:25	epoch	half of what I do is in C for making my shell-scripts less of a pain in the butt.
2020-08-06 20:34:46	epoch	like, uricut to keep me from having to use a regex or some other flakey way of parsing URIs
2020-08-06 20:35:28	epoch	(or some scripting language like perl or python or ruby that would use a module and load /way/ to much into memory just to split up a URI)
2020-08-06 20:35:35	kevinsan	right, so i was going to ask about that - is that part of uritools you mentioned?
2020-08-06 20:35:48	epoch	yeah
2020-08-06 20:36:20	epoch	I'll see if I need to do some commits first.
2020-08-06 20:36:30	epoch	I'm pretty sure I changed things to switch from xmessage to dmenu
2020-08-06 20:36:40	epoch	in the user interfacing parts
2020-08-06 20:39:51		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-06 20:41:02	epoch	uritools repo got updates commit'd and pushed
2020-08-06 20:41:15	epoch	that repo is in 3 places
2020-08-06 20:41:34	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/uritools
2020-08-06 20:43:05	kevinsan	thanks - might come in handy because I'm currently parsing URLs using a regex (and I can already see places where it might break!)
2020-08-06 20:44:00	epoch	I don't do URI validation in my cutter, so it can sometimes do weird stuff with weird input
2020-08-06 20:45:05	epoch	it splits off parts of the input string until it can't anymore then considers what's left to be the parts.
2020-08-06 20:45:42	epoch	like, if there's a # it cuts that off and uses that as fragment_id, or ? for query_string, then tries to cut the scheme off
2020-08-06 20:46:04	epoch	then tries to figure out whether there's an authority or not and separate it from the path
2020-08-06 20:46:29	epoch	then splits authority into userinfo and domainport or something..
2020-08-06 20:46:35	epoch	at an @
2020-08-06 20:47:09	epoch	splits pre-@ into user:pass if there's a :
2020-08-06 20:47:52	epoch	post-@ gets checked for [ to see if its an IPv6, if so, it splits on ]
2020-08-06 20:48:47	epoch	anything inside of []s will get considered a hostname instead of just stuff that's a valid Ipv6 address.
2020-08-06 20:49:07	epoch	and ports don't /have/ to be numbers for uricut
2020-08-06 20:50:06	epoch	uristart in the uritools was me attempting to make a better xdg-open
2020-08-06 20:55:37	kevinsan	seems sane enough. I'm sure I have a huge list of semi-random URLs if you ever need a corpus of wild URLs to check against.
2020-08-06 20:57:14	epoch	:) I have a list too.
2020-08-06 20:57:31	epoch	https://thebackupbox.net/links.txt
2020-08-06 20:58:10	epoch	try to include weird uri schemes in the list for playing with
2020-08-06 20:58:11	kevinsan	ha, puny. mine's 1.8G
2020-08-06 20:58:36	epoch	links.txt is kind of just my public bookmarks
2020-08-06 20:58:59	epoch	and its been deleted a few times.
2020-08-06 20:59:28	epoch	what's the semi-random URLs from?
2020-08-06 21:00:04	kevinsan	I visited every link on HN (inc comments) and extracted the links from each page.
2020-08-06 21:01:00	epoch	what regex did you match for finding if something was a URI or not?
2020-08-06 21:01:41	epoch	x-terminal-emulator.*.pattern.3:	\\b([a-z][A-Za-z0-9+.-]*:\\/{0,2}[A-Za-z0-9:/?#\\[\\]@!$&'\''\\(\\)*+,;=%~_.-]+)
2020-08-06 21:01:41	epoch	x-terminal-emulator.*.launcher.3:	copy_start_nevermind.sh $0 &
2020-08-06 21:01:43	kevinsan	It's all there https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/cfs_build
2020-08-06 21:02:41	kevinsan	bear in mind I was only interested in http/s, so the use-case is much simpler than your
2020-08-06 21:15:21	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 21:16:11		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-06 21:17:20	epoch	https://thebackupbox.net/cgi-bin/pageview.cgi?page=linkstats
2020-08-06 21:17:35	epoch	21 different uri schemes
2020-08-06 21:20:31	kevinsan	many i'd never seen before - I only learned about dict: earlier today!
2020-08-06 21:21:24	epoch	I still haven't gotten around to implementing a dict URI handler for myself yet.
2020-08-06 21:21:41	epoch	right now if I click a dict link it is just stubbed out as an xmessage
2020-08-06 21:22:00	kevinsan	i'm looking for a very abbreviated english dictionary for a mini-project, so that I can identify e.g. 'interesting' as a word but not 'Vim'
2020-08-06 21:22:49	kevinsan	so many technical terms exist in dictionaries, even C99(!)
2020-08-06 21:23:49		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-06 21:23:52	kevinsan	i've written a word-cloud for my Gemini site, derived from my sitemap and full-text index, but I want to throw away common english words
2020-08-06 21:24:05	epoch	"the!"
2020-08-06 21:24:21	Cadey	kevinsan: look up "stopwords"
2020-08-06 21:24:23	epoch	word distribution follows zipf's law?
2020-08-06 21:26:19	kevinsan	thanks Cadey - all the stopwords lists are still too limiting - even the word 'limiting' I wouldn't want in a word cloud.
2020-08-06 21:26:44	Cadey	you may want to just make your own stopwords list then lol
2020-08-06 21:27:53	epoch	could just play whack-a-mole and add them to the list as you see them?
2020-08-06 21:29:10	kevinsan	yes to both, but if I had a really basic dictionary file I could do it more effectively.
2020-08-06 21:31:22		Samsai has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91)")
2020-08-06 21:38:19	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 21:39:36		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-06 21:42:59	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 21:43:29		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-06 21:44:10	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 21:44:37		scottjoe has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-06 21:49:28		everbern has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-06 21:58:54		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-06 23:19:22		easeout has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-06 23:20:05	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 23:25:45	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 23:25:55		scottjoe has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-06 23:26:54	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-06 23:27:07		scottjoe has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-07 00:06:39	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 00:14:26		scottjoe has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-07 00:45:12	omse	Hello, someone knows or has a way to contact the owner of konpeito.media?
2020-08-07 00:45:25	omse	the gemini site seems to be offline
2020-08-07 00:46:13		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-07 00:46:45	Cadey	horrible idea: gemflare, like cloudflare but for geminispace
2020-08-07 00:47:05	xfnw	omse: people usually have email forwarded from abuse@domain you could try emailing that
2020-08-07 00:47:17	xfnw	there might be more contact info in the whois of the domain
2020-08-07 00:47:23	xfnw	Cadey: lol yes
2020-08-07 00:49:21	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 00:49:57	omse	xfnw: thanks for the info!
2020-08-07 00:51:18	omse	hmm, diggin through gopher://konpeito.media it seems the owner is the same from tilde.tel
2020-08-07 00:52:02	xfnw	what? i thought cat had the gopher hole baud.baby
2020-08-07 00:53:02	@tomasino	he does
2020-08-07 00:53:06	@tomasino	he does many things
2020-08-07 00:53:16	@tomasino	also #baudvision
2020-08-07 00:55:07	omse	oh i see
2020-08-07 00:56:25	omse	cat: hi, it seems konpeito.media's gemini is offline. Letting you know just in case
2020-08-07 01:22:53	calmbit	if content is being served from static files, is there a standard file extension for text/gemini files?
2020-08-07 01:23:48	calmbit	(sorry if this is a dumb or obvious question, I just haven't found anything in my searches that answer this)
2020-08-07 01:35:17	@tomasino	hey calmbit 
2020-08-07 01:35:27	@tomasino	most servers will serve .gmi or .gemini files
2020-08-07 01:35:35	@tomasino	as text/gemini (also called gemtext)
2020-08-07 01:35:44	@tomasino	but it's up to the server software
2020-08-07 01:36:57	calmbit	awesome, thank you tomasino !
2020-08-07 01:38:52	@tomasino	NP
2020-08-07 01:39:50	dctrud	hi gemini folk
2020-08-07 01:39:58	@tomasino	hiya
2020-08-07 01:40:30	dctrud	haven't browsed much for a bit... about to go looking for anything new that's popped up. any hot tips?
2020-08-07 02:03:15	makeworld	omse: konpeito often goes offline, not much to do about it. Download the files if you want to keep them
2020-08-07 02:03:28		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-07 02:34:19		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-07 02:34:27	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 02:57:01		benoliver999 has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:01		g has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:01		cyflea has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:01		rmgr has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:01		kevinsan has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:01		dokuja has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:01		bard has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:02		cat has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:02		rjt_znc has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:02		cyrus has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:02		papes has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:02		omni has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 02:57:05	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 02:57:06	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 02:57:16	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 02:57:34	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 02:57:36	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 02:57:39	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 02:57:54	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 02:59:40	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 02:59:59	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 03:00:00	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 03:03:10	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 03:46:25	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 06:22:27	▬▬▶	Samsai has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 07:53:21	hannu	I found updown.io yesterday and noticed that it can be used to check gemini servers (tcp :1965). Maybe someone will find this useful. https://updown.io/vbah
2020-08-07 07:53:49	hannu	(that link is the status check for my gemini server)
2020-08-07 07:54:33	hannu	(ping me if you'd like a referral link. it gives double free credits on signup.)
2020-08-07 08:06:27		rmgr has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 08:06:27		rjt_znc has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 08:08:52	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 08:08:52	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 08:09:25	@julienxx	Morning geminauts
2020-08-07 08:14:46	hannu	Good morning!
2020-08-07 09:10:42		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-07 09:40:43	djph	o/
2020-08-07 10:12:53	jan	good morning :)
2020-08-07 10:14:51	cat	jetforce crashes out when someone tries to download
2020-08-07 10:15:10	cat	seems to be zip files specifically
2020-08-07 10:15:14	cat	some
2020-08-07 10:15:21	cat	kind of memory error
2020-08-07 11:01:07	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 11:37:24	@tomasino	Poop
2020-08-07 11:38:03	@tomasino	May be time to migrate to Molly brown or that g one that everyone uses and I can't remember the name of
2020-08-07 11:48:35	isvarahparamahkrsnah	hello
2020-08-07 11:53:10	djph	hi isvarahparamahkrsnah
2020-08-07 12:00:03	cat	yeah i need to try something else but right now working on anything is the bottom of my list
2020-08-07 12:14:41		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-07 12:21:37	Cadey	i'm getting close to having webassembly CGI support to my gemini server
2020-08-07 12:21:47	Cadey	because why not
2020-08-07 12:47:05	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 13:49:43		kayw has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 13:49:43		benoliver999 has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 13:49:43		xfnw has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 13:49:44		kevinsan has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 13:49:44		ben has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 13:49:44		easeout has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 13:49:44		paper_ has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 13:49:44		hannu has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 13:49:44		omse has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-08-07 13:49:49	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 13:49:58	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 13:50:01	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 13:51:20	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 13:51:42	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 13:51:45	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 13:57:27	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 13:57:27	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 13:57:27	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-08-07 14:00:20	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 14:00:36	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 14:23:21		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-07 16:32:47		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-07 16:47:16	▬▬▶	thegiant has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 16:59:43	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 17:14:31	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 17:14:31		jan6 has quit (Changing host)
2020-08-07 17:14:31	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 18:24:33	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 19:48:29		thegiant has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-07 20:29:11		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-07 20:47:51	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 20:49:20		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-07 21:19:47	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 21:46:50		kevinsan has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-07 21:50:20	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-08-07 22:14:08		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-07 22:39:24		Samsai has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91)")
2020-08-07 23:14:14	makeworld	cat: File a bug if you can! :)
2020-08-07 23:15:27	makeworld	tomasino: Geminid (C) or Geminal (Rust) ?
2020-08-07 23:15:48	makeworld	Cadey: wow nice lol
2020-08-07 23:15:54	makeworld	So it will execute .wasm files?
2020-08-07 23:15:59	Cadey	that's the plan yeah
2020-08-07 23:16:25	makeworld	Interesting... I've seen people talk about it's potential as a generic containerized executable format
2020-08-07 23:16:30	makeworld	*its
2020-08-07 23:16:42	makeworld	Idk if I'm convinced, but it's a cool idea
2020-08-07 23:16:49	easeout	wasm to execute server side?
2020-08-07 23:17:05	makeworld	Yeah, it's a thing. Just still very small/beta rn
2020-08-07 23:18:14	makeworld	cat: konpeito's cert has expired bt
2020-08-07 23:18:19	makeworld	*btw
2020-08-07 23:18:37	⚡	easeout reads
2020-08-07 23:18:51	Cadey	yeah
2020-08-07 23:18:56	Cadey	wasm on the server
2020-08-07 23:21:05	easeout	ok so the fact that wasm has to interop with JS to work on the front end means JS can be used to interop lots of different languages, and therefore has server benefits, is that the idea?
2020-08-07 23:22:11	companion_cube	on the server side, wasm doesn't need any js…
2020-08-07 23:22:49	easeout	then, it has an intermediate language instead a la CLR or JVM or LLVM?
2020-08-07 23:22:51	Cadey	easeout: https://christine.website/talks/webassembly-on-the-server-system-calls-2019-05-31
2020-08-07 23:23:07	easeout	thanks!
2020-08-07 23:23:31	makeworld	It's like an IR I think
2020-08-07 23:23:44	easeout	mmk so the interop story is simpler than i thought
2020-08-07 23:23:47	makeworld	Or rather a virtual machine instruction set, so yeah like JVM
2020-08-07 23:24:46	Cadey	yeah
2020-08-07 23:24:52	Cadey	the real fun comes from making system calls
2020-08-07 23:25:07	easeout	what level of safety do you get with that connective tissue? like i assume a rust binary will be well behaved by itself, but when you link it to go or JS
2020-08-07 23:25:34	Cadey	surprisingly a lot
2020-08-07 23:26:10	easeout	cool i'm looking forward to researching a bit
2020-08-07 23:26:17	easeout	thanks for the details
2020-08-07 23:26:31	Cadey	no problem
2020-08-07 23:27:00	companion_cube	it's like the jvm, but without the GC or a forced object model
2020-08-07 23:27:11	Cadey	yeah :D
2020-08-07 23:28:03	easeout	"without GC" *stars in my eyes*
2020-08-07 23:28:41	makeworld	But you can compile with a GC
2020-08-07 23:28:48	makeworld	Like Go can compile to wasm
2020-08-07 23:28:59	Cadey	without a forced GC
2020-08-07 23:29:20	easeout	sure cool
2020-08-07 23:30:11	easeout	i've worked in iOS, and the android kids all love kotlin. but they are often blind to how the JVM has hamstrung that language
2020-08-07 23:30:29	easeout	the popular story is that kotlin is akin to swift but it's more like a typescript tbh
2020-08-07 23:30:55	easeout	not that typescript isn't great for what it does, which is make JS more sane
2020-08-07 23:31:03	easeout	and same re: kotlin
2020-08-07 23:45:35	kevinsan	Cadey, did you ever get to the stream accepting tcp connections?
2020-08-07 23:56:37	Cadey	no, but i have ideas on how to do it
2020-08-07 23:59:55	kevinsan	it's a really cool idea. i didn't totally pick up the runtime resources of your hello world - 128K of ram did you say?
2020-08-08 00:03:54	@tomasino	fate core game tonight
2020-08-08 00:04:00	@tomasino	time to bust out Cadey's character generator
2020-08-08 00:04:35	Cadey	Yay
2020-08-08 00:05:20		admicos has quit (quit: cya)
2020-08-08 00:06:38	@tomasino	oh shoot, i need to reinstall kristall
2020-08-08 00:06:40	@tomasino	new system
2020-08-08 00:06:51	@tomasino	xq: where's those sexy binaries you talked about before?
2020-08-08 00:07:13	@tomasino	double-shoot. i didn't save my key to my plant!
2020-08-08 00:07:15	@tomasino	NOOOOOO
2020-08-08 00:07:29	makeworld	:(
2020-08-08 00:07:49	@tomasino	alas
2020-08-08 00:09:27	easeout	bummer
2020-08-08 00:11:34	makeworld	Maybe talk to mozz and get him to manually register a new cert for you
2020-08-08 00:11:44	makeworld	If you send him a hash he can edit the database
2020-08-08 00:13:14	@tomasino	possibly
2020-08-08 00:13:19	@tomasino	something to worry about after the game!
2020-08-08 00:13:44	djph	wait what
2020-08-08 00:13:46	djph	games?
2020-08-08 00:13:51	djph	what game?
2020-08-08 00:15:36		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-08 00:18:48	@tomasino	I'm running a Fate Core game for my players in 45 min
2020-08-08 00:19:01	@tomasino	i'm 75% sure they're going to destroy the world tonight
2020-08-08 00:19:05	@tomasino	i sure hope so!
2020-08-08 00:19:09	companion_cube	Cadey: you looking at wasi?
2020-08-08 00:19:54	djph	what's "fate core" ?
2020-08-08 00:20:12	@tomasino	It's a tabletop roleplaying game system
2020-08-08 00:20:23	@tomasino	quite lovely
2020-08-08 00:20:33	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOFXtAHg7vU
2020-08-08 00:21:16	djph	ah, another spin on pathfinder / dnd / etc.
2020-08-08 00:22:36	@tomasino	not really
2020-08-08 00:22:53	@tomasino	VERY different way of playing
2020-08-08 00:22:55	@tomasino	story focused
2020-08-08 00:23:14	djph	we tried that once
2020-08-08 00:23:20	djph	our party is murder hobos :|
2020-08-08 00:30:45	Cadey	companion_cube: my research predates wasi
2020-08-08 00:30:51	Cadey	wasi is too limited
2020-08-08 00:30:57	▬▬▶	Movieguy has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 00:31:00	Movieguy	https://clipwatching.com/q1yrex48xh5g/MD_3010II_metal_detector_field_test_on_trashy,_hard_terrain.mp4.html
2020-08-08 00:31:18	Cadey	my solution lets you do HTTP calls over the "filesystem"
2020-08-08 00:32:12	djph	well, a "story driven" game
2020-08-08 00:32:40	Movieguy	Stupid dude burns down his garden, extreme funny. https://clipwatching.com/43do3iukdgfq/down_his_garden_very_funny.mp4.html
2020-08-08 00:33:16	companion_cube	Cadey: intruiging. Why the quotes around filesystem?
2020-08-08 00:33:43	login	Movieguy: is this spam?
2020-08-08 00:33:54	@tomasino	yep
2020-08-08 00:34:21	login	Movieguy: you are rational but misguided
2020-08-08 00:34:40	companion_cube	all that spam calls  for is a kick
2020-08-08 00:35:07	login	Movieguy: get religion ;)
2020-08-08 00:35:23	xfnw	login: is everything alright?
2020-08-08 00:35:36	Movieguy	:D
2020-08-08 00:35:49	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 00:36:47	xfnw	i still think login is multiple people... at different times they react to things totally differently
2020-08-08 00:36:55	login	Movieguy: it's too easy to catch fish on open irc right?
2020-08-08 00:37:10	Movieguy	always
2020-08-08 00:37:21	djph	xfnw: time of day and/or level of annoyance at cow-orkers?
2020-08-08 00:37:22	login	what's the play?
2020-08-08 00:37:32	login	money on ads?
2020-08-08 00:37:44	Movieguy	no
2020-08-08 00:37:44	djph	ads?
2020-08-08 00:37:48	login	or some apk?
2020-08-08 00:37:50	Movieguy	just fun
2020-08-08 00:37:53	djph	ohgodno, if ads make it to gemini i'm out
2020-08-08 00:37:56	xfnw	login: or maybe its to stop people from making a profile of login's usual reactions and use it to find other identities?
2020-08-08 00:38:23	xfnw	djph: lol GemAds or something
2020-08-08 00:38:31	login	^ i mean, on the link Movieguy shared
2020-08-08 00:38:43	djph	xfnw: please no.
2020-08-08 00:38:46	login	but ads will never make it to gemini
2020-08-08 00:38:48	djph	:)
2020-08-08 00:38:54	xfnw	will they?
2020-08-08 00:38:54	Movieguy	you know the word spam where is it came from?
2020-08-08 00:39:14	⚡	xfnw puts an ad for another gemini pod in his gemini pod, ha!
2020-08-08 00:39:19	djph	it's ham, in a can.
2020-08-08 00:39:29	login	ham is pork?
2020-08-08 00:39:29	Movieguy	yep
2020-08-08 00:39:52	xfnw	spam is ham? i thought it was misc meat
2020-08-08 00:40:04	djph	well "ham"
2020-08-08 00:40:11	Movieguy	so
2020-08-08 00:40:12	xfnw	lol
2020-08-08 00:40:22	Movieguy	spam spam
2020-08-08 00:40:22	login	how does the link benefit you, Movieguy?
2020-08-08 00:40:24	kevinsan	spam is a brand-name of a cheapo tinned pork product
2020-08-08 00:40:28	Movieguy	came from Monty
2020-08-08 00:41:36		[tomasino away: game night]
2020-08-08 00:41:36	xfnw	how does the nutritional value of spam compair to similar volumes of sandwich ham?
2020-08-08 00:41:39	login	Dont ask about weight, and dont ask about income
2020-08-08 00:41:49	login	Movieguy: kg and $?
2020-08-08 00:41:54		Movieguy has quit (G-lined: spam)
2020-08-08 00:42:09	xfnw	aw lol this conversation was getting interesting
2020-08-08 00:42:38	calmbit	ads in gemini would be depressing but at the very least they'd theoretically be less intrinsically harmful than HTML5/JavaScript ads
2020-08-08 00:42:47	calmbit	unless you have a misbehaved client
2020-08-08 00:42:57	calmbit	which would arguably be the _more_ depressing thing
2020-08-08 00:43:06	djph	xfnw: it's cheaper in general .. IIRC a can is about on-par for the same price as the "store brands" for deli meat.
2020-08-08 00:43:11	xfnw	lol YES gemini with javascript
2020-08-08 00:43:20	calmbit	please no
2020-08-08 00:43:22	calmbit	i beg you
2020-08-08 00:43:28	djph	xfnw: I think you're on the wrong side of the ballmer peak.
2020-08-08 00:43:30	kevinsan	like a client that would use http to fetch from an adtech network and show it in between gemini requests
2020-08-08 00:43:53	kevinsan	i mean, it has to be done for the satire alone
2020-08-08 00:44:03	calmbit	kevinsan: that's even more satanic than what i was thinking of
2020-08-08 00:44:26	calmbit	i was literally just thinking a client that silently looks for lines formatted in a particular way and displays them differently as an adtech measure
2020-08-08 00:44:33	xfnw	or maybe the clients should parse brainfuck
2020-08-08 00:44:46	calmbit	brainfuck as an application language
2020-08-08 00:44:50	djph	xfnw: oh, NUTRITIONAL value. It's more preserved (salty, etc) than say sliced ham.  IIRC more on par with say bacon or heavily preserved sandwich meat (corned beef, proscuitto, etc.)
2020-08-08 00:45:29	djph	calmbit: kevinsan I think both of you need to spend time sitting in the corner thinking about what you've done.
2020-08-08 00:46:05	calmbit	djph: at the very least I don't want to ever see these ideas implemented, I just know that if corporations ever find this space it's the type of bullshit they'll pull
2020-08-08 00:46:27	xfnw	lol yesss corperate gemini
2020-08-08 00:46:32	kevinsan	djph, you're thought-police. i haven't done anything yet.....  not yet.
2020-08-08 00:47:00	djph	kevinsan: no no, I'm not the thought police.  I work at Minitrue, not Miniluv.
2020-08-08 00:47:04	djph	... wait ...
2020-08-08 00:47:44	xfnw	lol gemini should be able to start a windows vm in the background, and then arbitrarily run a exe file
2020-08-08 00:48:45	djph	ew
2020-08-08 00:49:00	login	true vs luv?
2020-08-08 00:49:34	kevinsan	login, 1984 references? or was that not what you were asking
2020-08-08 00:49:45	djph	1984.  As I recall (probably incorrectly) Ministry of Truth was responsible for changing history / propaganda / etc.  Ministry of Love was the police.
2020-08-08 00:49:53	djph	BUUUT I really need to re-read it again.
2020-08-08 00:50:07	login	i see
2020-08-08 00:50:27	login	i didnt read 1984
2020-08-08 00:50:33	calmbit	did gopher ever get adtech?
2020-08-08 00:50:38	djph	It's not an easy read.
2020-08-08 00:50:38	calmbit	i can't imagine so
2020-08-08 00:50:47	login	if orwell were around now, he'd see
2020-08-08 00:51:05	djph	He'd be telling us it wasn't a user's manua
2020-08-08 00:51:07	djph	*manual
2020-08-08 00:51:45	login	there is no ministry
2020-08-08 00:51:48	kevinsan	it's a darker book than I expected - kind of like Kafka's Penal Colony, but stretched out a long way and absent the humour
2020-08-08 00:51:53	login	it's distributed
2020-08-08 00:52:23	login	i didnt read kafka's penal colony either
2020-08-08 00:54:06	kevinsan	login, what about The C Programming Language, Kernighan & Ritchie?
2020-08-08 00:54:33	djph	I only read the ANSI edition
2020-08-08 00:55:58	kevinsan	i want no truck with that modern fangled ANSI nonsense
2020-08-08 00:56:02	login	not read it either
2020-08-08 00:56:20	djph	kevinsan: heh
2020-08-08 00:57:51	kevinsan	djph, I had in mind Ken Thompson, who says he's not much into these modern screen editors like vi, prefers to stick with ex
2020-08-08 00:58:08	djph	"ed" ?
2020-08-08 00:58:32	djph	love the kerninghan videos on youtube.
2020-08-08 00:58:35	djph	we need more
2020-08-08 00:59:02	kevinsan	similar, I think. ex is what vi grew out of - it's pretty much still in there in its entirety. Vim makes more sense when you learn some ex
2020-08-08 00:59:43	kevinsan	login, do you have a book recommendation of something that has impressed you?
2020-08-08 00:59:51	djph	vim makes a bit of sense as it is.  I really need to get better with the buffers
2020-08-08 01:01:12	kevinsan	if you really *had* to get better with buffers, then you'd just do it.
2020-08-08 01:01:58	djph	I usually use the tabs instead. I just need to get better with them because I still run across systems @dayjob that don't have the tabs
2020-08-08 01:02:11	kevinsan	I just map Tab and Shift-Tab to :bn and :bp
2020-08-08 01:03:41	kevinsan	gemini://gemini.susa.net/cgi-bin/vim-search?buffers
2020-08-08 01:12:06	djph	nice
2020-08-08 01:18:59	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 02:22:47		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-08 02:23:04	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 02:25:25		Sario528 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-08 02:28:12		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-08 02:34:29	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 02:35:09	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 02:39:31	▬▬▶	u0_168a has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 02:40:25	u0_168a	Hello
2020-08-08 02:40:42	u0_168a	I have a question, how would I set up streaming of let's say a music file?
2020-08-08 02:52:29	kevinsan	gemini is a text protocol, so you'd have to use something different to stream
2020-08-08 02:57:15	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 02:58:24		luna has quit (quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-08-08 02:59:32	▬▬▶	luna has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 02:59:47		luna has quit (quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-08-08 03:08:51	u0_168a	So to stream a file you need to have a streaming enabled client, and the file uploaded?
2020-08-08 03:09:02	u0_168a	You don't need anything special beside that?
2020-08-08 03:10:47	calmbit	theoretically insofar as the MIME type matches it should just be a matter of your client differentiating it, although gemini does seem to be mostly reserved for text. I don't know what the official guidelines are on serving binary content over gemini even are really
2020-08-08 03:11:10	calmbit	(i'm not even close to an expert, this is my understanding of the protocol docs - YMMV)
2020-08-08 03:12:36	calmbit	obviously the actual streaming itself would be slightly out of scope for a gemini client unless it was just downloading a stream cue or a full file
2020-08-08 03:12:38	calmbit	but
2020-08-08 03:15:48	u0_168a	I heard that it was possible
2020-08-08 03:15:51	u0_168a	For example music streaming
2020-08-08 03:16:10	u0_168a	Up to one, two days, if you searched in GUS "music" you would find an autoplay site
2020-08-08 03:16:17	u0_168a	days ago*
2020-08-08 03:19:18	calmbit	i don't exactly know what you mean by autoplay in this case
2020-08-08 03:19:35	calmbit	as in, the site automatically played music when you navigated to it?
2020-08-08 03:26:14	u0_168a	It said that it was meant to
2020-08-08 03:26:28	u0_168a	However it did not do so currently, you had to compile a brief snippet first
2020-08-08 03:27:48	kevinsan	you'd need a server that identifies the file as audio and sends a suitable mime-type prior to the data, and you'd need a client able to recognize the mime-type and read the binary data to decode/feed to a player.
2020-08-08 03:28:19	kevinsan	I guess that what you read was a reference to something that does this.
2020-08-08 03:34:45	u0_168a	The compiled snippet was piped to aplay -
2020-08-08 03:35:02	calmbit	oh, well that'd do it i suppose
2020-08-08 03:36:48	u0_168a	Ok, thanks
2020-08-08 03:37:00	u0_168a	Till later
2020-08-08 03:37:01		u0_168a has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-08 03:38:20	calmbit	i do wonder how most gemini clients will handle stuff like binary data
2020-08-08 04:23:29		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-08-08 05:26:14	@tomasino	yay!
2020-08-08 05:26:20	@tomasino	my fate game went the way i was hoping it would
2020-08-08 05:26:26	@tomasino	my players destroyed the earth
2020-08-08 05:26:39	@tomasino	cracked it into hundreds of pieces and also sorta, kinda broke time
2020-08-08 07:33:42	▬▬▶	Samsai has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 07:52:29		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-08 09:11:39	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 11:05:41	djph	nice
2020-08-08 11:48:36	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 11:54:33	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 12:10:10	~tiwesdaeg	I am currently obsessed with blaseball
2020-08-08 12:12:18	djph	DnD 3e5 is my vice
2020-08-08 12:12:33	djph	... and the magic numbered rocks ...
2020-08-08 12:23:36	~tiwesdaeg	that was not a typo either
2020-08-08 12:23:49	~tiwesdaeg	so many statistics
2020-08-08 12:50:38		natpen has quit (quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 26.3)
2020-08-08 13:17:19		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-08 14:50:10	makeworld	hannu: Your homepage is looking great, wow
2020-08-08 14:51:40	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 14:55:17	easeout	oh those colors are great
2020-08-08 15:00:12		easeout has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-08 15:00:39	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 15:07:06	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 15:25:45	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/cgi-bin/env.sh !
2020-08-08 15:25:52	Cadey	I think I have CGI working!
2020-08-08 15:25:58	Cadey	this is just for normal shell script stuff
2020-08-08 15:26:00	Cadey	but
2020-08-08 15:26:08	Cadey	doing it with webassembly stuff is trivial from here
2020-08-08 15:36:14	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 15:45:40	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 16:01:56	calmbit	it's so cool to see other people's things working with my thing that is working
2020-08-08 16:02:20	calmbit	feel like I'm actually accomplishing a thing:tm:
2020-08-08 16:02:33	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/cgi-bin/olinfetch.wasm
2020-08-08 16:03:02	Cadey	for some reason client certificates make rustls sad though
2020-08-08 16:03:05	Cadey	still trying to figure that out
2020-08-08 16:03:27	calmbit	it's a shame they're not better advertised and supported
2020-08-08 16:04:42	Cadey	source for that: https://github.com/Xe/pahi/blob/master/wasm/olin/src/bin/olinfetch.rs
2020-08-08 16:05:58	easeout	nice work
2020-08-08 16:06:50	calmbit	loving to see the CGI stuff Cadey , it's super cool stuff
2020-08-08 16:10:11	Cadey	i'm about to go test it with some stuff other people have made
2020-08-08 16:16:18		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-08 16:26:32	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 16:27:15	lukee	hi folks
2020-08-08 16:30:18		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-08 16:49:50	isvarahparamahkrsnah	hellou
2020-08-08 16:57:42	kevinsan	Cadey, well done, the wasm things's cool. how big is your olinfetch.wasm executable?
2020-08-08 17:04:55	kevinsan	hi lukee, i found an issue with geminaut - from CGI, when I return e.g. '30 /sitemap.gmi\r\n' Geminaut hangs around forever (until closed). If I return a full gemini:// redirect, all works fine.
2020-08-08 17:12:56		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-08 17:32:26	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 18:14:25	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 19:07:45	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 19:13:18	lukee	kevinsan: can you point me at an example page or url where you get this. thanks
2020-08-08 19:14:26		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-08 19:15:59		StygianBlues has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-08 19:16:18	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-08-08 19:27:16	Cadey	kevinsan: 368kb, but most of that is rust overhead
2020-08-08 19:28:59	Cadey	lukee: gemini://cetacean.club/cgi-bin/forever.sh should replicate the behavior kevinsan is seeing
2020-08-08 19:33:12	lukee	Cadey: thanks - I'll take a look
2020-08-08 19:40:14	lukee	yep the redirect detection isnt working for targets that arent full URIs with a scheme
2020-08-08 19:40:47	lukee	its at least supposed to popup an info notification saying this is not implemented yet
2020-08-08 19:41:13	lukee	but probably I should just try to fix this
2020-08-08 19:47:20	easeout	bombadillo sees an error, but not a hang: Invalid system path: /index.gmi
2020-08-08 19:49:27	easeout	the spec does say "The URL may be absolute or relative" which i take to mean "like http", where relative can mean domain-relative (/...) or folder-relative (no /)
2020-08-08 19:50:07	easeout	it is ambiguous though
2020-08-08 19:50:41	Cadey	oh nice
2020-08-08 19:50:44	Cadey	it makes majc segfault
2020-08-08 19:51:42	easeout	yeah, i imagine a lot of implementations don't handle this well. there are three cases but the spec suggests there are two cases
2020-08-08 19:51:53	easeout	easy mistake to make
2020-08-08 19:52:43	easeout	maybe it does say elsewhere in the spec though. i just searched for "redirect" and read the surrounding bits
2020-08-08 20:02:16	lukee	one more bug fixed :)
2020-08-08 20:06:57	login	the spec is bad then
2020-08-08 20:07:05	login	it should be overdetermined
2020-08-08 20:09:40	easeout	the gemini spec being a little fast and loose made it fun to read and so here we all are … but yeah it could be clearer on this point
2020-08-08 20:13:12	Cadey	i fixed it \o/
2020-08-08 20:13:28	Cadey	https://tulpa.dev/cadey/maj/commit/6b9070e20027087c4dcd1d638ccee91a5f916765
2020-08-08 20:17:27	lukee	me too
2020-08-08 20:17:28	lukee	https://github.com/LukeEmmet/GemiNaut/commit/f4474fa48e062bec294a73241877ef12509c810e
2020-08-08 20:22:21	lukee	I've updated the binary download on my website
2020-08-08 20:22:48	kevinsan	i brought it to y'all test-shy hackers attention. i claim all gold-stars as rightfully mine.
2020-08-08 20:22:50	lukee	kevinsan: if you prefer I can just send you a patched GemiNaut.exe
2020-08-08 20:23:26	kevinsan	i can fetch it quicker from your link - thanks!
2020-08-08 20:23:30	easeout	well done, reporter of accurate and diagnosable bugs
2020-08-08 20:23:55	easeout	well it's not the bugs that are accurate but your report, but you get me
2020-08-08 20:25:05	lukee	the new version should be 0.8.7.1 (previous was 0.8.7.0)
2020-08-08 20:26:31	kevinsan	thanks easeout, i was entirely mucking about tho (i hope nobody thinks me *that* egotistical lol)
2020-08-08 20:28:40	kevinsan	btw, I think the spec is plenty accurate. it shouldn't matter whether it the link is relative to the root or to the current path
2020-08-08 20:34:54	hannu	makeworld: thanks!
2020-08-08 21:41:38		natpen has quit (quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 26.3)
2020-08-08 23:02:04		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-08 23:02:50		Samsai has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91)")
2020-08-09 00:25:37		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-09 06:46:16	▬▬▶	Samsai has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 07:38:26	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 07:40:54		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-09 09:25:58		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-09 09:27:59	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 14:42:37	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 16:07:28	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 16:35:31		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-09 16:57:00		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-09 17:02:27		Sario has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-09 17:03:01	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 17:03:08	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 17:11:18		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-09 17:11:27	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 17:16:38		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-09 17:16:51	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 17:20:34		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-09 17:20:46	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 17:25:25		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-09 17:25:37	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 17:30:13		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-09 17:30:26	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 17:35:13		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-09 17:48:05	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 17:52:58		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-09 17:54:05	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 18:20:04	tildebeast	 hi, trying out molly-brown on my freebsd vm. am i right in thinking it's best to have a specific user for the server rather than running as root or myself?
2020-08-09 18:25:56		[tomasino back: gone 41:44:20]
2020-08-09 18:33:06	Sario	Sounds correct
2020-08-09 18:35:17	tildebeast	thanks Sario
2020-08-09 18:35:40	tildebeast	eally have to work out a FreeBSD init script too :)
2020-08-09 18:35:49	tildebeast	s/eally/really
2020-08-09 18:58:17	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 19:07:43	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 20:51:50		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-09 21:37:23		djph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-09 21:38:28	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 22:20:10		djph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-09 22:26:35		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-09 22:27:25	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-09 22:43:16		Samsai has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.91)")
2020-08-09 22:56:19	tildebeast	hum. dabbling with a simple (crude) python script to connect to a server, send a url + \r\n, then print any response received.  all that happens is a connection reset by peer. what might i be doing wrong?
2020-08-09 22:59:09	tildebeast	pls ignore, wasn't setting up connection properly
2020-08-09 23:03:03		epoch has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-08-09 23:45:26		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-09 23:47:14	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 02:12:22	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 02:14:50		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-10 02:48:18	ℹ 	gbmor is now known as GbMor
2020-08-10 02:50:43	ℹ 	GbMor is now known as gbmor
2020-08-10 04:04:25	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 04:08:29		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-10 04:38:38	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 05:30:15	isvarahparamahkrsnah	hi xj9
2020-08-10 06:25:38		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-10 06:25:43	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 06:25:44	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-08-10 06:34:14	isvarahparamahkrsnah	hello
2020-08-10 06:51:40		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-10 06:52:32	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 06:54:39	hannu	makeworld: oops, i may have broken your comment system by listing examples of graphical non-emoji unicode characters in a comment :)
2020-08-10 06:56:04	hannu	oh, I didn't. It just took a while to show the comment.
2020-08-10 08:48:02	@julienxx	morning geminauts
2020-08-10 08:49:49	dkibi	morning!
2020-08-10 08:50:28	dkibi	ca va? (I still haven't figured out how to make that little hook on the c)
2020-08-10 08:51:28	isvarahparamahkrsnah	hello
2020-08-10 10:23:26	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 10:27:06		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-10 11:48:27	Cadey	dkibi: alt-c on a mac
2020-08-10 12:18:23		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-10 12:50:04	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 13:17:31	@ben	compose c ,
2020-08-10 13:17:33	@ben	ç
2020-08-10 13:35:39	dkibi	ohhh
2020-08-10 13:35:54	dkibi	It's so far way from the normal c xD
2020-08-10 13:36:01	scottjoe	:D
2020-08-10 13:36:15	dkibi	c is surrounded by æßð®©
2020-08-10 13:55:04		tastytea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-10 14:00:33		everbern has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-10 14:04:42	Cadey	hi nerds
2020-08-10 14:07:19		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-10 14:08:45	@tomasino	yo!
2020-08-10 14:10:04	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 14:10:38	scottjoe	Morn'
2020-08-10 14:15:15	@tomasino	how's everyone?
2020-08-10 14:15:41	scottjoe	Onboarding to a new client and nothing works, so that's always fun.
2020-08-10 14:17:20	@tomasino	beautiful
2020-08-10 14:28:11	scottjoe	Their IT vendor really makes it difficult to do work for them. But...it's work.
2020-08-10 14:28:36	djph	money in your pocket is always nice
2020-08-10 14:57:33	xj9	isvarahparamahkrsnah: howdy
2020-08-10 15:12:08		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-10 15:24:52	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 15:32:33	makeworld	hannu: Sure, but I can't guarantee those kinds of characters will be used. You didn't use one! :). It's much easier to limit to emojis then to try and find all the "graphical" characters.
2020-08-10 15:32:37	makeworld	From my response comment
2020-08-10 15:33:01		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-10 15:53:26	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 15:55:00	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 16:07:02	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 16:10:56		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-10 16:27:43	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 17:06:21		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-10 17:06:41	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 17:10:34		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-10 17:41:52	▬▬▶	thegiant has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 17:48:52	makeworld	Should Amfora store the items and metadata of a feed on the disk, or just the URLS and reconstruct each time
2020-08-10 17:55:13	makeworld	Just the URLs is easier, but it's nice to have the history
2020-08-10 18:01:45	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 18:18:57		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-10 18:28:38	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 18:44:22	kensanata	For the feed aggregator I wrote in a different context, I keep all the feeds I downloaded in raw rss/atom form, and a json file with things like error messages I got etc.
2020-08-10 18:45:19	kensanata	You still don't get the history all the way back: just what's in the current version of the feed. If I wanted to support archiving, I'd start looking at RFC 5005.
2020-08-10 18:51:19	kevinsan	makeworld, gemini://gemini.susa.net/parse_irc.awk.gmi - i'm fetching a reprocesing your last 100 lines of IRC, here's the awk script if it's of any use.
2020-08-10 19:03:48		Sario has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-10 19:17:13	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 19:20:06		thegiant has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-10 19:57:01	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 20:03:11		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-10 20:11:34	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 20:24:21	@tomasino	you all see that China blocked TLS 1.3 + ESNI?
2020-08-10 20:24:44	▬▬▶	kylie has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 20:32:17	xj9	not surprising
2020-08-10 20:32:22	xj9	but unfortunate
2020-08-10 20:32:50	xj9	i did learn a bit more about how yggdrasil does TLS tunneling as a result though
2020-08-10 20:51:27	lukee	following the recent discussion of gemini favicons, i saw this on HN: https://thehistoryoftheweb.com/how-we-got-the-favicon/
2020-08-10 21:04:44		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-10 21:20:54	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 21:29:35		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-10 21:31:38		kylie has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-08-10 21:33:09	makeworld	kevinsan: Cool! To be honest I find that bit hard to read though, IRC doesn't really have sections like that
2020-08-10 21:41:04	kevinsan	ha, curious - i was finding the raw irc log hard to read, esp on mobile. hope you don't mind me piggybacking off your cgi-script...
2020-08-10 21:42:59	kevinsan	but now I read it in a console rather than GUI, I see what you mean!
2020-08-10 21:46:34	makeworld	What's it look like on mobile?
2020-08-10 21:47:57	makeworld	Nice favicon, btw :)
2020-08-10 21:56:10	kevinsan	without reformatting, it's more or less unreadable to me - meta-messages & line wrapping make it hard to pick out actual chat.
2020-08-10 21:58:10	▬▬▶	kylie has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 21:58:34	kevinsan	with reformatting, in Deedum, it's totally lush.
2020-08-10 22:03:06		kylie has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-08-10 22:03:32	▬▬▶	kylie has joined #gemini
2020-08-10 22:33:51	lukee	kevinsan: just saw your re-parsing of the irc logs - very nice. Bookmarked!
2020-08-10 22:44:58		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-10 22:48:43	makeworld	Oh yeah, just checked on Deedum and it's pretty nice there
2020-08-10 23:09:37		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-10 23:10:37	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 00:49:43	griffin	Just launched my first site! With a post about my wip-Gemini application server: gemini://gmb.is/gemengine
2020-08-11 01:12:44	easeout	nice work!
2020-08-11 01:17:13	griffin	:)
2020-08-11 02:24:08		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 02:42:10		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 02:42:30	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 02:49:23	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 03:00:28		mhj has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-11 03:11:41		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 03:19:41	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 03:21:12		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-11 03:22:09		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-11 03:27:18	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 03:38:45	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 03:57:11		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-11 05:05:50		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 05:35:35	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 05:41:04	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 05:54:13		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 06:44:44		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-11 06:51:25	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 06:54:20	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 06:57:25		lucidiot has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-11 06:57:39	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 07:34:10	xq	> You cry over the withered leaves of your plant.
2020-08-11 07:34:10	xq	> Your plant was recently watered by solderpunk.
2020-08-11 07:34:19	xq	i'm definitly not made for plants
2020-08-11 07:35:14	xq	time to return and start a new plant :)
2020-08-11 07:49:24	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 08:00:31		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 08:03:38	kensanata	The watering of plants for others is such a nice touch.
2020-08-11 08:15:11	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 09:05:43		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-11 09:05:51	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 09:19:57	xq	yeah
2020-08-11 09:27:04		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-11 11:26:11	rmgr	Anybody got any experience with av98? I can see how to create a bookmark but can't seem to delete them...
2020-08-11 11:26:18	kevinsan	griffin, interesting. a canocical API reference would help clarify the framework's boundaries
2020-08-11 11:29:29	kevinsan	rmgr, vi ~/.config/av98/bookmarks.gmi
2020-08-11 11:31:49	rmgr	kevinsan: neat! Thanks!
2020-08-11 11:46:54	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 12:18:01	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 13:19:58		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 13:44:25		natpen has quit (quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 26.3)
2020-08-11 14:14:31	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 14:18:34		vee has quit (quit: Quit)
2020-08-11 14:47:03	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 15:15:25	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 15:25:48		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 15:31:42		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-11 15:42:22	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 15:59:12	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 16:40:38		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 16:57:57	companion_cube	Cadey: https://github.com/Geal/generic-http-client/tree/master/src
2020-08-11 17:07:29	griffin	kevinsan: the docs could definitely use some love ha
2020-08-11 17:35:09		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-11 18:20:20	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 18:40:53	makeworld	Now that I found Bleve (https://blevesearch.com) I'm tempted to reimplement GUS in Go ;)
2020-08-11 18:42:08	companion_cube	what's it based on right now?
2020-08-11 18:42:44	makeworld	It's written in Python and uses Whoosh: https://whoosh.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
2020-08-11 18:42:58	makeworld	Which is a great tool afaik, no shade to GUS or anything
2020-08-11 18:43:29	xj9	thinking about writing a gemini client and server in limbo
2020-08-11 18:43:37	companion_cube	pure python? :s
2020-08-11 18:43:51	companion_cube	I don't know enough about search engines
2020-08-11 18:44:05	companion_cube	but sqlite has full-text search, and I think I'd go for that first
2020-08-11 18:44:26	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 18:44:29	makeworld	The problem is there's all these algos you have to implement
2020-08-11 18:44:33	xj9	python isn't bad for scraping web pages tbh
2020-08-11 18:44:39	makeworld	Search is pretty complicated
2020-08-11 18:45:12	makeworld	I wouldn't be surprised if Whoosh uses sqlite's FTS in the background, then applies lots of other things
2020-08-11 18:45:17		kylie has left #gemini
2020-08-11 18:45:19	lukee	bleeve looks pretty nifty
2020-08-11 18:46:42	lukee	it would be nice to have some kind of "deep history" you can search. Like "I know I read a page about X last week, but for the life of me I cannot remember where..."
2020-08-11 18:46:59	makeworld	Hey we were sorta discussing that on the mailing list
2020-08-11 18:46:59	lukee	I mean, integrated into a client
2020-08-11 18:47:10	lukee	yes I saw that
2020-08-11 18:47:14	makeworld	If you have a proxy, the proxy can store all the pages and do that
2020-08-11 18:47:29	makeworld	Personally I wouldn't want that in a client for storage reasons
2020-08-11 18:47:37	makeworld	But I guess you could run the proxy locally
2020-08-11 18:47:42	lukee	what some kind of personal proxy?
2020-08-11 18:48:01	makeworld	Yeah
2020-08-11 18:48:38	lukee	wouldnt it be complex to implement certificates and input behaviours?
2020-08-11 18:49:19	xj9	something like http://www.httrack.com/proxytrack/ ?
2020-08-11 18:49:21	lukee	anyway storage is cheap, its got to get stored somewhere
2020-08-11 18:49:58	lukee	if it is a personal proxy, doesnt really matter if it is in the client or MyGeminiProxy (TM)
2020-08-11 18:50:54	xj9	that type of cache would be really nice for offline browsing
2020-08-11 18:51:03	companion_cube	makeworld: ah right, python ships with sqlite
2020-08-11 18:51:11	companion_cube	so it could qualify as "pure python" I guess 😂
2020-08-11 18:51:14	lukee	httrack is cool, it saved my bacon once
2020-08-11 18:56:23	makeworld	companion_cube: Kinda funny yeah. But I think that's a great move on Python's part
2020-08-11 18:57:54	companion_cube	I guess, yeah, it's nice
2020-08-11 18:58:03	companion_cube	apparently the best language to interact with sqlite is still TCL :D
2020-08-11 18:59:50	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 19:00:11	lukee	makeworld: what IDE (if any) do you use for Go development?
2020-08-11 19:00:43	lukee	I just downloaded JetBrains GoLand for a spin - it seems quite nice
2020-08-11 19:02:44	makeworld	I just use VS Code for big projects. And micro for small changes
2020-08-11 19:02:59	makeworld	For all programming languages. It's nice to not have to switch to other things
2020-08-11 19:03:14	makeworld	https://micro-editor.github.io/
2020-08-11 19:05:12	lukee	thanks - micro looks cool - terminal only though?
2020-08-11 19:05:38	lukee	so far I was just using Scite, but the syntax checking and code completion/library expansion seems it could save a lot of hunting and searching for API function signatures etc
2020-08-11 19:06:02	lukee	does VS Code have a mode for that - or is it just syntax highlighting?
2020-08-11 19:08:21	lukee	actually answering my own question, seems it does have deeper support than just syntax https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/languages/go
2020-08-11 19:20:49	makeworld	Yes, all VS Code languages have suggestions and autocompletion for API calls, etc
2020-08-11 19:21:36	makeworld	And yeah micro is terminal only, it's nice though
2020-08-11 19:25:56	Cadey	makeworld: do it
2020-08-11 19:28:24	Cadey	implementing a search engine is a good programming exercise
2020-08-11 19:28:44	Cadey	i've used bleve before, so i may be able to help there depending on how intense your questions are
2020-08-11 20:08:58	CommunistWolf	https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2020/08/11/changing-world-changing-mozilla/
2020-08-11 20:09:07	CommunistWolf	What a good time to have gemini
2020-08-11 20:10:32	companion_cube	that's really sad
2020-08-11 20:12:50	makeworld	Too bad :/
2020-08-11 20:12:58	makeworld	It feels honest to me though
2020-08-11 20:13:15	makeworld	Cadey: Thanks, maybe I will! I'll ask you if need anything
2020-08-11 20:26:36	companion_cube	I'm afraid I might have to find a new browser 😱
2020-08-11 20:33:38	makeworld	What do you use now?
2020-08-11 20:39:22	xj9	companion_cube: i feel that
2020-08-11 20:39:55	xj9	i'm slowly moving off web as a platform because this seems to be the direction that the whole ecosystem is going
2020-08-11 20:41:20	companion_cube	makeworld: currently, firefox
2020-08-11 20:41:34	companion_cube	with some plugins that I'm quite dependent on
2020-08-11 20:45:32	kensanata	Just recently I saw somebody angry with changes Firefox had made and they moved to qutebrowser.
2020-08-11 20:45:37	kensanata	https://qutebrowser.org/
2020-08-11 20:45:41	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 20:47:33	makeworld	companion_cube: Oh I thought you meant Gemini browser lol. I'm attached to Firefox personally
2020-08-11 20:49:38	lukee	I hope firefox can survive https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share
2020-08-11 20:49:48		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-11 20:49:55	xj9	ideally the web would light on fire
2020-08-11 20:50:28	CommunistWolf	yeah, the web is lost
2020-08-11 20:50:47	CommunistWolf	mozilla has been super suspect for a while
2020-08-11 20:51:09	xj9	its impossible to keep up with google
2020-08-11 20:51:11	rb100	kensanata: qutebrowser is just another webkit/blink/whatever browser, right?
2020-08-11 20:51:11	companion_cube	makeworld: ahah ok, no, I use kristall
2020-08-11 20:51:45	xj9	the insane pace of web platform evolution is damaging to everyone involved imo
2020-08-11 20:51:47	companion_cube	qutebrowser is webkit, I imagine?
2020-08-11 20:52:40	rb100	i use netsurf more than is healthy for browsing
2020-08-11 20:52:41	xj9	mozilla has to change to stay in the game at all, which makes me question the game they're playing
2020-08-11 20:52:49	xj9	netsurf is nice
2020-08-11 20:53:40	CommunistWolf	it's worse than elinks for me. the CSS is worse than useless when it doesn't even approach intended layout
2020-08-11 20:53:44	makeworld	Yeah, we'll see where this new direction will take Mozilla. But overall I'm happy with them
2020-08-11 20:53:51	companion_cube	xj9: it's changing in the wrong direction it seems
2020-08-11 20:56:19	xj9	the only way to write a browser is to start 15 years ago with an army of developers
2020-08-11 20:56:23	xj9	can't be healthy
2020-08-11 20:58:15	lukee	this quarterly view is even more stark: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#quarterly-200901-202003
2020-08-11 20:59:44	lukee	Ergo, the web is chrome
2020-08-11 21:00:52	xj9	the web is google who pays the chrome team and mozilla to developing competing browsers
2020-08-11 21:00:55	companion_cube	to be faire, they don't see, eg, me
2020-08-11 21:01:01	companion_cube	(since I block them in umatrix)
2020-08-11 21:05:04		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-11 21:07:45		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 21:09:13	admicos	i just want firefox without the mozilla how hard can that be?!
2020-08-11 21:09:53	xj9	really hard
2020-08-11 21:09:58	xj9	firefox is huge
2020-08-11 21:10:26	xj9	you're welcome to try though
2020-08-11 21:10:56	admicos	i know
2020-08-11 21:11:05	admicos	i tried once, and might try again later too, but still
2020-08-11 21:11:26	admicos	i wish the sailfishos folks actually documented embedlite so we could strip gecko out firefox and use it like a widget
2020-08-11 21:13:40	xj9	to me it seems like a fundamental flaw in the web platform
2020-08-11 21:13:58	companion_cube	that it was a runaway success?
2020-08-11 21:14:46	xj9	the fact that only two and a half browser engines can keep up with the rapidly growing standard
2020-08-11 21:15:21	companion_cube	because it was a runaway success and is used for things it was never designed to do
2020-08-11 21:15:53	xj9	good strat for google tbh
2020-08-11 21:16:08	xj9	they own the whole platform at this point
2020-08-11 21:17:12	companion_cube	well all they had to do what to out-rich everyone else
2020-08-11 21:17:33	admicos	i just counted around 11 "web standards" that had a google employee as an editor
2020-08-11 21:17:44	admicos	and these are the ones that i just picked at random
2020-08-11 21:18:26	lukee	We need a "Back to Web 1.0" movement
2020-08-11 21:18:30	companion_cube	1.1 please
2020-08-11 21:18:41	djph	lukee: back to gopher.
2020-08-11 21:18:43	lukee	well, HTTP 1.1
2020-08-11 21:18:56	xj9	eh i'm good with 9p
2020-08-11 21:18:58	admicos	i'd assume most people who would participate in that movement would already have sites that work reasonably under smaller browsers like netsurf or even lynx
2020-08-11 21:19:12	lukee	but the technology stack before web 2.0
2020-08-11 21:19:41	xj9	plan9 alternate reality
2020-08-11 21:19:44	xj9	no web at all
2020-08-11 21:19:56	companion_cube	or oberon alternate reality maybe
2020-08-11 21:19:58	companion_cube	no C at all ♥
2020-08-11 21:20:09	xj9	yeah alright
2020-08-11 21:20:17	lukee	djph: much as I like gopher, it is not possible to completely put the web genie back in the bottle
2020-08-11 21:20:30	djph	companion_cube: no C? are you a madman?
2020-08-11 21:20:38	djph	lukee: oh I know :)
2020-08-11 21:20:55	xj9	no C is ideal world honestly
2020-08-11 21:21:38	makeworld	Lol
2020-08-11 21:22:02	lukee	it would be tied to a "green IT" movement: "Reduce your carbon footprint and rediscover the essence of the web"
2020-08-11 21:22:28	companion_cube	djph: no, I'd be so happy about that
2020-08-11 21:22:37	companion_cube	C was a big step backward
2020-08-11 21:27:37	lukee	I sort of blame CSS even though I think it is amazing
2020-08-11 21:28:06	lukee	there is now the expectation by content providers that you completely control the user experience
2020-08-11 21:28:52	admicos	honestly, CSS but just the layout parts (flex and grid) would be just fine. the rest of the styling should be done my the user
2020-08-11 21:29:04	lukee	the counter to this, which is one of the things I really like about Gemini is that there is no styling
2020-08-11 21:29:12	lukee	just semantics
2020-08-11 21:30:01	lukee	before CSS there was the <font> tag...
2020-08-11 21:30:28	admicos	<body background=chucknorris>
2020-08-11 21:30:34	admicos	bgcolor*
2020-08-11 21:32:31	djph	companion_cube: as compared to what ... ?
2020-08-11 21:33:33	companion_cube	as compared to basically any other language in existence, imho, but even back then that'd include algol
2020-08-11 21:34:57	lukee	C is just assembler with macros, masquerading as a high level language imo
2020-08-11 21:37:28	companion_cube	then you should use an assembler, not C :D
2020-08-11 21:37:49	lukee	rather not use either TBH
2020-08-11 21:37:51	companion_cube	(I mean something with macros, sure, but without a syntax that pretents to be a high level language)
2020-08-11 21:37:54	companion_cube	yeah
2020-08-11 21:49:32		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 22:34:58	kevinsan	the problem with the current web is separating the few remaining grains of wheat from the mountain of chaff.
2020-08-11 22:35:12	djph	kevinsan: it's not even worth it
2020-08-11 22:36:04	kevinsan	we could reboot http by running a server on e.g. port 1993, which would make it easy to know the site you're visiting is not Hello magazine, etc.
2020-08-11 22:36:47	kevinsan	i share the suspicion that web 'evolution' has the convenient side-effect of outpacing any meaningful collaborative effort.
2020-08-11 22:37:38	kevinsan	so starting with the good bits and throwing away the nonsense might make a browser for the port 1993 web a viable proposition.
2020-08-11 22:39:33	kevinsan	i don't dislike CSS; layout is important for some domains. I don't even dislike JavaScript - it's not so much the tech as how it is being used. A lot of that is because the browser allows it.
2020-08-11 22:39:44	admicos	instead of "throwing away", we i'd say we should "build up".
2020-08-11 22:40:12	admicos	let's start with semantic html elements like main,section,article,etc..
2020-08-11 22:40:17	admicos	then _some_ styling
2020-08-11 22:40:31	admicos	that way we won't keep anything "just in case"
2020-08-11 22:41:47	kevinsan	admicos, exactly - pare back to the essential stuff and see what else we really miss.
2020-08-11 22:44:25	kevinsan	i like the idea of having an http server right beside my Gemini server - they can work hand in hand (file serving, streaming, form handling)
2020-08-11 22:46:32	companion_cube	I mean, if it's for hobbyist stuff, gemini is sufficient anyway
2020-08-11 22:46:51	companion_cube	a subset of http/html will inevitably suffer feature creep
2020-08-11 22:49:20	login	isn't that gemini though?
2020-08-11 22:49:24	login	but with a different format
2020-08-11 22:50:36	companion_cube	http1.1 is much more advanced already
2020-08-11 22:51:01	kevinsan	sort of, yes - a subtle difference is that there's no 'crap gemini' corresponding to our 'crap web'. I'd argue that feature creep is less tempting when you already have full-blown HTTP servers at your disposal
2020-08-11 22:52:16	kevinsan	I'm more worried about feature creep in Gemini - I'd like it to evolve; maybe not as fast as Gopher, but something approaching that ;)
2020-08-11 23:12:20		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-11 23:37:01	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-11 23:59:50	makeworld	I'm kinda okay with Gemini being simple and the web being complicated
2020-08-12 00:00:05	makeworld	The state of the web is not great, but I retreat to Gemini when I want to
2020-08-12 00:00:23	makeworld	I'm not sure how much value there is in trying to create a restricted HTML standard
2020-08-12 00:07:25	makeworld	Easy to grow, and it doesn't seem worth the work
2020-08-12 00:07:48	makeworld	I'd probably just want to use Firefox to browse it, at which point all the SafeWeb things start to come in
2020-08-12 00:09:10	makeworld	If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk/gemlog/why-not-just-use-a-subset-of-http-and-html.gmi
2020-08-12 00:09:21	makeworld	Anyone wanting to make a HTML/HTTP subset should read that first
2020-08-12 00:23:39	admicos	unrelated :: i wish kristall had horizontal padding independent of vertical padding, i have to grow the panels on the sides to actually read text how i want to
2020-08-12 00:24:24	admicos	i tried implementing it myself a couple of times, but qt docs are horrible and it seemed like you just couldn't do it unless you were willing to mess around with the container that contains the text box the page is rendered in
2020-08-12 00:25:09	easeout	i dig that, makeworld. i like knowing that if i go to a gemini:// URL it's likely to be fast, small, all content, not monetized, no script
2020-08-12 00:25:12	companion_cube	has solderpunk left?
2020-08-12 02:33:29	makeworld	admicos: Make an issue! :)
2020-08-12 02:33:39	makeworld	easeout: Exactly, yeah
2020-08-12 02:33:50	admicos	makeworld: good call, i should
2020-08-12 02:34:05	makeworld	companion_cube: Not sure what you mean. He's not on IRC right now, but he's still active online and with the project
2020-08-12 02:37:08	companion_cube	ah, ok. I was wondering if he quit IRC.
2020-08-12 02:37:29	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 02:40:55	makeworld	He just doesn't use it much
2020-08-12 02:40:58	makeworld	He's been on here a few times
2020-08-12 02:41:49	epoch	?
2020-08-12 02:41:51	epoch	o/
2020-08-12 02:42:12	epoch	who you talking about? solderpunk?
2020-08-12 02:47:15	makeworld	Yes
2020-08-12 02:47:21	makeworld	companion_cube> has solderpunk left?
2020-08-12 03:02:34	epoch	https://tilde.zone/@solderpunk if you want to stalk him. :P
2020-08-12 03:04:23	companion_cube	yeah I know, that's why I wonder why not IRC :p
2020-08-12 03:10:48		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-12 03:15:34	makeworld	Night y'all
2020-08-12 03:15:42	epoch	g'night
2020-08-12 03:16:44		notsure has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-12 03:16:51	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 03:24:29	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 03:33:27		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-12 03:43:57		notsure has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-12 03:47:55	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 03:48:14		notsure has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-12 05:09:57	▬▬▶	funkpower has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 05:10:07	ℹ 	funkpower is now known as notsure
2020-08-12 05:28:59		notsure has quit (quit: WeeChat 3.0-dev)
2020-08-12 05:31:57	epoch	https://hackers.town/@vortex_egg/104674600268113963 :P
2020-08-12 05:32:05	epoch	should I have @solderpunk?
2020-08-12 05:37:55	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 08:12:08	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 08:12:13		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-12 09:15:22	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 09:30:06	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 10:37:38		CommunistWolf has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-12 10:42:28	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 10:59:01		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-12 11:00:55		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-12 11:41:49	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 11:47:46		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-12 11:47:54	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 11:50:26		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-12 12:10:56	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 12:17:24	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 12:18:02		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-12 13:11:32	Nalaph	how long do you think it'll be before we get the gemini equivilent of HTTP code 418? I'm mildly convinced that no protocol is complete without having at least one inside joke.
2020-08-12 13:12:18	djph	Probably a long while.  I think the codes are only up to around 50 or 60 right now
2020-08-12 13:14:12	xq	lol
2020-08-12 13:14:16	xq	djph is definitly not a teapot
2020-08-12 13:15:14	djph	xq: hehe, I mean I'm all for the silly ones.  Just going to be kind of hard to slip them in, given 2-digit error codes
2020-08-12 13:15:18	djph	s/error/status/
2020-08-12 13:15:36	djph	(also, it was kind of tongue in cheek, if that wasn't clear)
2020-08-12 13:22:24	tildebeast	i installed molly-brown under my own user account on my freebsd server. anything to stop me copying it from my go-lang bin directory to somewhere like /usr/local/bin so that my 'gemini-server' user can find it? Or will something go kerpluey?
2020-08-12 13:22:41	tildebeast	by 'it' i mean the compiled executable, sorry
2020-08-12 13:27:42	tildebeast	well, just tried it and nothing blew up so far :)
2020-08-12 13:30:55	@tomasino	i think there's something weird wiht go path you need to do
2020-08-12 13:31:16	@tomasino	normally
2020-08-12 13:31:21	@tomasino	no clue, really
2020-08-12 13:33:07	tildebeast	hmm. the basic copy worked up to a point, then: TLS Failure
2020-08-12 13:33:09	tildebeast	There was an error while negotiating the TLS encryption.
2020-08-12 13:33:11	tildebeast	The issuer certificate of a locally looked up certificate could not be found
2020-08-12 13:33:24	tildebeast	which might be related to what you just mentioned, tomasino
2020-08-12 13:34:06	tildebeast	as there was "no such error" when running molly-brown as myself with a gopath set
2020-08-12 13:34:57	@ben	iirc GOPATH is only important at build-time
2020-08-12 13:35:54	tildebeast	hmm
2020-08-12 13:40:09	tildebeast	helps if I add the 'gemini' subdomain :)
2020-08-12 13:40:25	tildebeast	letsencrypt is fussy about details like that :)
2020-08-12 13:41:56	tildebeast	is institute the best placed to ask about setting this up as a proper freebsd daemon with an init script etc?
2020-08-12 13:43:57	@ben	inst is openbsd
2020-08-12 13:44:10	@ben	i'm not sure how init scripts differ between free and open bsd
2020-08-12 13:44:19	tildebeast	nor me :)
2020-08-12 13:44:27	@ben	you might like to have a look at some of june's software
2020-08-12 13:44:34	@ben	https://git.causal.agency
2020-08-12 13:44:44	@ben	she targets freebsd primarily
2020-08-12 13:44:57	tildebeast	great, thanks ben
2020-08-12 13:45:16	@ben	she's usually in #meta if you want to ask questions
2020-08-12 13:46:55	tildebeast	will do!
2020-08-12 14:00:23	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 14:06:47	~tiwesdaeg	tildebeast: I have an rc script working for mollybrown
2020-08-12 14:13:33		paper has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-08-12 14:15:03	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 14:15:43		plugd has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-12 14:16:49		paper has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-08-12 14:16:52	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 14:20:50		notsure has quit (quit: WeeChat 3.0-dev)
2020-08-12 14:21:23	▬▬▶	funkpower has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 14:21:48	ℹ 	funkpower is now known as notsure
2020-08-12 14:51:04	Cadey	changing keyboard layouts is hard
2020-08-12 15:01:32	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemget/releases/tag/v1.5.0
2020-08-12 15:02:02		paper has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-08-12 15:02:04	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 15:29:07	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 15:29:56	@tomasino	permanently changing or like, swapping?
2020-08-12 15:41:01	acdw	morning all ! I hope it's okay I dumped a giant reply post to many missives over the weekend yesterday
2020-08-12 15:41:06	acdw	(can you parse that sentence? lol)
2020-08-12 15:48:17	▬▬▶	plugd has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 15:48:20		plugd has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-12 16:02:08	djph	acdw: no
2020-08-12 16:03:20	acdw	haha
2020-08-12 16:03:41	acdw	I posted a giant reply to a bunch of different weekend posts to my capsule
2020-08-12 16:03:49	acdw	maybe you did understand and it wasn't okay
2020-08-12 16:50:36	▬▬▶	anton1 has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 16:50:44		anton1 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-12 17:02:26	tildebeast	all kinda working now with molly-brown on my freebsd server, startup script included :)
2020-08-12 17:03:38	acdw	nice!
2020-08-12 17:03:42	tildebeast	molly_brown_enable="OHMYHGOODNESSYES"
2020-08-12 17:04:06	tildebeast	must do a write-up before i forget everything
2020-08-12 17:04:26	acdw	link here plz!
2020-08-12 17:04:36	tildebeast	yup, will do acdw
2020-08-12 17:04:48	tildebeast	is there a good wiki space for this kinda thing?
2020-08-12 17:05:10	acdw	kensanata would probably say transjovian.org
2020-08-12 17:05:19	acdw	(on gemini obviously)
2020-08-12 17:05:27	tildebeast	mwahaha
2020-08-12 17:05:29	acdw	though maybe ... ask? IDK how wikis work lol
2020-08-12 17:05:54	tildebeast	just thought it might be better in a more central page than something i bung on my own site/s
2020-08-12 17:06:26	tildebeast	actually, perhaps tildegit might be best
2020-08-12 17:06:43	acdw	oh yes, haha. email solderpunk?
2020-08-12 17:06:47	acdw	tildegit is good tho
2020-08-12 17:08:43	tildebeast	i'll certainly email solderpunk anyway
2020-08-12 17:12:19	acdw	:)
2020-08-12 17:56:59	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 17:57:30	scottjoe	Anyone else getting a timeout on gemini://gus.guru/
2020-08-12 17:57:52	scottjoe	Very cool griffin
2020-08-12 17:59:21	acdw	scottjoe not using portal.mozz.us
2020-08-12 17:59:26	acdw	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gus.guru/
2020-08-12 17:59:30	acdw	(just a quick check)
2020-08-12 17:59:34	acdw	but i gotta go o/
2020-08-12 17:59:47		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-12 17:59:59	scottjoe	hm. good to know. I'm using Kristall on a Mac
2020-08-12 18:00:44	Sario	scottjoe: AV-98 shows GUS working
2020-08-12 18:01:11	scottjoe	hmm
2020-08-12 18:13:59	lucidiot	scottjoe: works for me with Kristall on Elementary OS
2020-08-12 18:14:31	lucidiot	though it warned me the cert has changed since my last visit
2020-08-12 18:22:48	scottjoe	Weird. I'll restart it and see what happens
2020-08-12 19:27:45	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 19:31:20		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-12 19:35:15	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 20:15:51	▬▬▶	kkernig has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 20:55:18		kkernig has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-12 20:55:19	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 20:56:48		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-12 21:01:59	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-12 21:22:48	griffin	scottjoe:
2020-08-12 21:23:01	griffin	Thanks!
2020-08-12 21:59:09		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-12 22:01:22		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-13 01:59:47	wgreenhouse	transjovian is pretty exciting
2020-08-13 03:47:53	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 04:32:14	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 04:44:23		nytpu has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-13 05:14:46		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-13 05:22:01	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 05:32:39		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-13 08:06:19	kevinsan	wgreenhouse, care to elaborate your thoughts on transjovian?
2020-08-13 08:41:11	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 13:11:56	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 13:40:01	▬▬▶	tleb has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 13:44:05	▬▬▶	anton1 has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 13:52:12		tleb has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-13 14:36:53	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 15:33:39	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 15:45:32		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-13 16:45:54	▬▬▶	anton2 has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 16:48:02		anton1 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-13 16:50:22		anton2 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-13 18:02:07	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 18:06:51		bandali has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-08-13 18:06:57	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 18:25:23		bandali has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-08-13 18:26:09	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 18:26:52		bandali has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-08-13 18:27:04	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 18:35:25		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: brexit)
2020-08-13 18:35:36	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 18:36:40		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-13 18:44:25	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 18:45:17		rb100 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-13 18:52:28	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 19:05:57		vee has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-13 19:06:05	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 19:16:07		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-13 19:16:34	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 19:48:29	bandali	hey folks, i haven't fully read through the spec, but i was curious if/how gemini handles user input?
2020-08-13 19:48:49	bandali	are the INPUT status codes used for that?
2020-08-13 19:50:21	djph	theres input?
2020-08-13 19:51:54	bandali	it seems so?
2020-08-13 19:51:58	bandali	i just stumbled upon https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2019/000082.html
2020-08-13 19:57:22	djph	looks like the writer was developing a way to set input ... not that the protocol _has_ it
2020-08-13 20:09:55	wgreenhouse	bandali: yes that is what the INPUT status (10 or 11) is for
2020-08-13 20:09:59	wgreenhouse	hi btw
2020-08-13 20:10:21	bandali	wgreenhouse, cool. also, hey, nice seeing you here :-)
2020-08-13 20:11:47	wgreenhouse	bandali: elpher implements this as a minibuffer prompt
2020-08-13 20:12:01	wgreenhouse	bandali: I recommend trying it out in the astrobotany game
2020-08-13 20:12:11	wgreenhouse	which also demos client certificate login
2020-08-13 20:12:28	login	hmm?
2020-08-13 20:12:56	bandali	wgreenhouse, nice, i'll be sure to try it out. would be cool to have a built-in emacs mode
2020-08-13 20:13:37	wgreenhouse	bandali: I am trying to teach url.el to respect elpher as the protocol handler for gemini:// and I'm super confused about url.el
2020-08-13 20:13:54	bandali	oh yeah?
2020-08-13 20:14:07	wgreenhouse	yeah. basically stuff is unexpectedly hardcoded
2020-08-13 20:14:29	wgreenhouse	I don't see a super easy way to just tell url.el about a brand new uri scheme
2020-08-13 20:14:40	wgreenhouse	not much library documentation either
2020-08-13 20:35:50	bandali	ah, i see
2020-08-13 20:36:07	bandali	hmm
2020-08-13 20:36:12	bandali	could be worth asking on emacs-devel?
2020-08-13 20:47:47	wgreenhouse	heh maybe
2020-08-13 20:48:03	⚡	wgreenhouse will have to test their body armor
2020-08-13 20:48:48	bandali	haha
2020-08-13 20:48:52	bandali	how bad could it be?
2020-08-13 20:48:57	bandali	(famous last words? :-p)
2020-08-13 21:01:09	kensanata	I was more interested in teaching eww about elpher and that sort of worked using advice.
2020-08-13 21:01:33	kensanata	https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/emacs-setup/tree/config/eww-conf.el
2020-08-13 21:02:53	bandali	nice
2020-08-13 21:04:18	bandali	kensanata, do you know if the elpher people may be interested in bringing it into emacs and/or gnu elpa?
2020-08-13 21:04:31	kensanata	Yes, I talked to Tim already.
2020-08-13 21:04:44	bandali	oh cool! and they are interested?
2020-08-13 21:05:01	kensanata	Tim had an explanation but I forgot.
2020-08-13 21:09:34		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-13 21:11:05	kensanata	bandali: What I find hilarious is that Tim has a gopher front-end to his git repo written in Chicken Scheme and anybody can push branches onto it.
2020-08-13 21:11:46	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 21:11:51	acdw	hello everyone
2020-08-13 21:11:54	kensanata	bandali: So, that's where you'll find my branch allowing you to have multiple Elpher buffers, an Elpher buffer menu, including an Elpher multi-buffer history...
2020-08-13 21:12:00		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-13 21:12:17	acdw	kensanata: come again about elpher multibuffer?! I came into this chat at *just* the wrong time
2020-08-13 21:12:22	⚡	acdw runs off to check the logs
2020-08-13 21:12:24	bandali	kensanata, nice :-p
2020-08-13 21:12:29	bandali	hey acdw o/
2020-08-13 21:12:45	bandali	nice seeing so many familiar faces---well, nicks---here
2020-08-13 21:12:45	acdw	hey :)
2020-08-13 21:12:47	acdw	hahah
2020-08-13 21:12:57	bandali	:-)
2020-08-13 21:13:03	acdw	hey I have a question for yall re molly brown (in specific, gemini serving in general)
2020-08-13 21:13:17	acdw	do you know if I could serve 2 gemini sites from the same DO droplet?
2020-08-13 21:13:43	acdw	I could serve 2 http sites with nginx, do you know if there's a gemini server that can do 2 domains?
2020-08-13 21:13:58	acdw	or could I do 2 molly browns next to each other? I am thinking the answer to that is *no*
2020-08-13 21:14:03	kensanata	acdw: I know that Gemini Wiki can do it; no idea about Molly Brown.
2020-08-13 21:14:18	kensanata	Two servers next to each other can work if they don't have the same port number.
2020-08-13 21:14:31	kensanata	That would always work, but it's slightly ugly.
2020-08-13 21:15:11	acdw	bendali: response code 10 asks for input, 11 for guarded (password) input
2020-08-13 21:15:27	acdw	kensanata: good to know -- I figured with the port number thing. it is ugly and I'd rather not do it.
2020-08-13 21:15:36	acdw	I'll have to look more closely at the molly brown readme.
2020-08-13 21:15:47	acdw	slash email solderpunk -- almost did but then I thought, IRC!
2020-08-13 21:16:00	acdw	oh wgreenhouse missed your reply lol
2020-08-13 21:16:11	kensanata	acdw: Also, I just saw this in the README: "The follow features are planned for the future: * Name-based virtual hosting"
2020-08-13 21:16:18	kensanata	So the answer is clearly: not yet.
2020-08-13 21:16:51	acdw	oh haha yes
2020-08-13 21:16:53	acdw	welp
2020-08-13 21:17:09	⚡	bandali really should add "b\\(a\\|e\\)ndall?i?" to `erc-keywords'
2020-08-13 21:17:17	acdw	i guess I *could* try learning some Go and like, *contribute* to molly-brown
2020-08-13 21:17:29	acdw	oh shoot bandali sorry!
2020-08-13 21:17:41	acdw	though I guess I'm not the first
2020-08-13 21:17:51	kensanata	bandali: Hah. I also have all sorts of shortcuts added to my highlighting. "kens" "kensanta" (!) "alex" etc...
2020-08-13 21:17:57	bandali	hehe np acdw. it's astonishing how many people get it wrong :-p
2020-08-13 21:18:06	bandali	kensanata, nice :-D
2020-08-13 21:18:12	kensanata	bandali: Mostly people that aren't using their IRC client for completion.
2020-08-13 21:18:13	acdw	IRL my name is commonly mis-pronounced so I get the struggle
2020-08-13 21:18:29	bandali	kensanata, yea
2020-08-13 21:18:36	kensanata	Time for bed over here...
2020-08-13 21:18:38	bandali	acdw, ha, i feel ya
2020-08-13 21:18:47	bandali	night kensanata o/
2020-08-13 21:19:02	kensanata	Cheers! Too bad I have to go now that the room is suddenly so lively.
2020-08-13 21:19:17	bandali	for real
2020-08-13 21:19:23	kensanata	Gah, America! Even the timezones are no good!!!
2020-08-13 21:19:32	acdw	night!
2020-08-13 21:19:37	bandali	lol. at least i'm in canada :-p
2020-08-13 21:19:41	kensanata	Haha
2020-08-13 21:19:44	kensanata	Good night all! :D
2020-08-13 21:19:48		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-13 21:20:10	bandali	woah!! how does one achieve quadruple quit??
2020-08-13 21:20:11	acdw	oh is wgreenhouse still around? did a thing with emacs for using browse-url-at-point I could put up on my capsule
2020-08-13 21:20:40	acdw	idk!
2020-08-13 21:28:27	wgreenhouse	acdw: I'm here. I'm interested in hearing more
2020-08-13 21:29:31	wgreenhouse	I do like kensanata's solution but I'd rather teach url/browse-url about it rather than just eww
2020-08-13 21:29:35	acdw	hey, okay, lemme copy-paste and i'll send you the link
2020-08-13 21:29:47	wgreenhouse	thanks!
2020-08-13 21:32:25	⚡	bandali would be interested in having a look too
2020-08-13 21:36:05	acdw	BOOM
2020-08-13 21:36:06	acdw	 gemini://gemlog.blue/users/acdw/1597354552.gmi
2020-08-13 21:37:09	@tomasino	boom
2020-08-13 21:37:10	@tomasino	hiya
2020-08-13 21:37:46	acdw	hey tomasino! how's thigns?
2020-08-13 21:37:50	@tomasino	not too shabby
2020-08-13 21:37:53	acdw	nice nice
2020-08-13 21:37:57	@tomasino	sitting on a work video conference
2020-08-13 21:37:59	@tomasino	nodding along
2020-08-13 21:38:12	@tomasino	sitting on mute while a telehealth company explains how their process works
2020-08-13 21:38:25	acdw	oh boy that sounds Riveting
2020-08-13 21:38:50	@tomasino	heh, it's relevant to me since I'll be building all the integration stuff 
2020-08-13 21:39:00	@tomasino	but this is def a meeting that could have been an email
2020-08-13 21:39:01	acdw	haha well then yes that's pretty important you're there!
2020-08-13 21:39:11	acdw	glad to know those still exist in covid-times
2020-08-13 21:39:37	@tomasino	heh
2020-08-13 21:39:51	acdw	one thing that's nice about video conferences is you can do other stuff during, in fact it seems almost expected?
2020-08-13 21:40:21	acdw	this I'm saying from an outsiders' perspective; my wife does the conferences at home but she's on mute a fair amount and we can like, communicate somewhat
2020-08-13 21:40:37	@tomasino	yeah, i prefer these
2020-08-13 21:40:41	@tomasino	i can drop it in a window in the corner
2020-08-13 21:41:09	acdw	yes! And no one knows that they're the least important thing right now!
2020-08-13 21:41:29	acdw	though again, this actually does sound importatn, sorry about that
2020-08-13 21:41:41	acdw	I think I'd have a hard time with teleconferencing actually
2020-08-13 21:42:16	@tomasino	eh
2020-08-13 21:42:40	@tomasino	it looks like they want us to just link over to their platform
2020-08-13 21:42:42	@tomasino	which is kinda dumb
2020-08-13 21:44:06	acdw	hmm yeah it doesn't sound like an "integration" really
2020-08-13 21:44:09	@tomasino	nopes
2020-08-13 21:44:12	acdw	like, links is just how the web works
2020-08-13 21:44:14	@tomasino	eh, whatever
2020-08-13 21:44:18	@tomasino	my job is fixed price
2020-08-13 21:44:22	acdw	oh nice!
2020-08-13 21:44:23	@tomasino	less work same money
2020-08-13 21:44:31	acdw	that sounds like a gig!
2020-08-13 21:44:33	@tomasino	hehe
2020-08-13 21:44:55	acdw	I mean I dick around on IRC much of the day, or e-shop, so I guess I'm doing okay too
2020-08-13 21:45:07	@tomasino	heh, true!
2020-08-13 21:45:19	@tomasino	i'm so happy... i changed some kitty settings to make gemini:// links clickable
2020-08-13 21:45:32	@tomasino	and kristall picks them right up from there
2020-08-13 21:45:33	acdw	:O that I'd love to see!
2020-08-13 21:45:40	acdw	care to share?
2020-08-13 21:45:44	wgreenhouse	thanks acdw
2020-08-13 21:45:51	acdw	wgreenhouse: no problem!
2020-08-13 21:46:03	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles-minimal/blob/master/.config/kitty/kitty.conf#L257
2020-08-13 21:46:03	acdw	hope it helps :)
2020-08-13 21:46:11	acdw	aw yiss thanks tomasino
2020-08-13 21:46:11	@tomasino	simple as that
2020-08-13 21:46:25	acdw	oh wow, that's so easy. I haven't even really looked into kitty settings
2020-08-13 21:46:37	acdw	that's going in my work-notes email
2020-08-13 21:46:42	@tomasino	heh, yeah, right?
2020-08-13 21:46:56	@tomasino	i was just browsing the boilerplate settings one day and saw that and tried it
2020-08-13 21:46:59	@tomasino	works fine
2020-08-13 21:47:35	acdw	nice. Now to figure out how to screw elpher into xdg-open
2020-08-13 21:47:39	@tomasino	and hey, just read your gemlog
2020-08-13 21:47:42	acdw	I'm assuming that's what it uses
2020-08-13 21:47:45	acdw	hey! :)
2020-08-13 21:47:58	@tomasino	xdg-open or the other register protocol shenanigans in the window manager
2020-08-13 21:48:04	@tomasino	not sure which, but kristall opens, so it's doing it right
2020-08-13 21:48:25	acdw	haha yes. the bane of every desktop linux users' experience, I feel like
2020-08-13 21:48:28	acdw	at least mine
2020-08-13 21:49:19	acdw	also here: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/conf.html?highlight=url#opt-kitty.open_url_with
2020-08-13 21:49:25	acdw	there's a setting for open_url_with handler
2020-08-13 21:50:03	acdw	and I'm *sure* there's a way to hack emacs to open a url using whatever. don't know what it is, but I'm sure it's there
2020-08-13 21:56:19	acdw	aight yall i'm heading home. o/
2020-08-13 21:56:31		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-13 21:58:48	@tomasino	yay!
2020-08-13 21:58:49	@tomasino	have fun
2020-08-13 23:17:11	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 23:21:18		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-13 23:21:52	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-13 23:22:24	xfnw	tomasino: kitty is fun
2020-08-13 23:44:47	▬▬▶	evets has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 00:16:12		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 00:26:34	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 01:01:17	cyflea	here you go wgreenhouse re: browse-url and gemini - gemini://apintandaparma.club/~ajc/log/2020-08-14.gmi
2020-08-14 01:45:28		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 02:05:23	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 02:23:28		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 02:28:21	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 02:54:58		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 03:25:44	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 03:26:46		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 03:40:04	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 03:46:33	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 04:09:26		vee has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 04:09:29	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 04:55:00		wingy has quit (quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-08-14 04:55:09	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 05:08:00		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 05:08:50	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 05:23:18		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: comfy nap time)
2020-08-14 07:24:43	wgreenhouse	cyflea: thank you :D
2020-08-14 07:25:09	wgreenhouse	this is exactly what I needed and a little more. org links is even better, since org is my preferred bookmarking place
2020-08-14 07:33:46	cyflea	ah, no worries! yeah, next steps are to work out how to make 'org-store-link' work properly
2020-08-14 07:54:49	cyflea	alright, first pass at /that/ done if you reload the same article.
2020-08-14 08:07:19		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 08:07:50	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 08:18:43		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 08:19:11	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 08:21:50		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 08:22:02	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 08:22:49		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 08:23:01	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 08:24:30		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 08:24:47	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 10:09:27		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 11:17:34	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 12:10:30		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 12:51:42	▬▬▶	thunk has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 12:56:45	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 13:00:45		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 13:02:13	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 13:02:27		vee has quit (quit: Quit)
2020-08-14 13:03:00	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 13:34:22	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 13:48:03		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 13:48:17	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 13:52:17		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 14:24:34	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 14:30:34		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 14:31:21	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 14:41:52		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 14:45:01		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 15:13:42		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 15:30:42	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 16:29:44	wgreenhouse	sweet
2020-08-14 16:50:33	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 16:56:35		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 16:56:45	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 17:20:19	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 17:22:34	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 17:29:12		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 17:30:08	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 17:33:24		everbern has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-14 17:43:06	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 17:57:45		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-14 18:16:06		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-14 18:23:12		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 18:29:28		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 18:33:18	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 18:33:38	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 18:49:05		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 18:49:39	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 18:50:59		vee has quit (quit: Quit)
2020-08-14 18:51:04	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 18:57:04		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-14 18:59:58	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 19:13:23		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-14 19:23:27	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 19:24:24	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 19:42:01		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-14 19:45:25	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 19:58:03		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-14 19:58:13	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 20:03:50		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-14 20:04:29	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 20:26:54		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-14 20:29:04	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 20:29:14	acdw	oh shoot I actually have a *very* important question
2020-08-14 20:29:27	acdw	so I'm going to try and setup my personal geminispace this weekend
2020-08-14 20:29:43	acdw	(on my own domain) and I'm thinking about possibly using a subdomain.
2020-08-14 20:30:00	acdw	question is: what subdomain should I use!? 'gem' or 'gemini' is tired imo
2020-08-14 20:31:30	CommunistWolf	it's got its own port, so I'm not sure I'd bother with a subdomain
2020-08-14 20:35:48	acdw	oh there might be a way for me to not use a non-standard port, i got an email detailing the method with nginx routing stuff around
2020-08-14 20:36:27	acdw	I *kind of* like NQ2 (since that's the gemini constellation's quadrant in the sky), but I'm not sure
2020-08-14 20:37:07	@tomasino	gemini-streaming-should-be-a-thing.acdw.net
2020-08-14 20:37:08	acdw	esp. since 'www' is world wide web, i.e. http
2020-08-14 20:37:17	acdw	tomasino lolol
2020-08-14 20:37:30	acdw	you're pro-streaming then, eh?
2020-08-14 20:37:50	admicos	make it ten.wdca.acdw.net so it still works when you write it backwards
2020-08-14 20:37:53	acdw	watching that debate has been interesting for me, since I have no real opinion on the matter
2020-08-14 20:37:59	acdw	ooh admicos i like that lol
2020-08-14 20:38:09	acdw	teh mirror zone
2020-08-14 20:38:10	kevinsan	gemini-was-never-intended-for-steaming.susa.net
2020-08-14 20:38:32	acdw	I keep clicking all these links like they're going to go somewhere
2020-08-14 20:39:14	kevinsan	ok, so now I'm actually going to have to create that, and put a whole ranty page up dissing the idea. No comments section :)
2020-08-14 20:39:22	acdw	I'd read that for sure!
2020-08-14 20:39:38	@tomasino	i am pro streaming, yes
2020-08-14 20:39:53	@tomasino	if we aren't gonna do it with a status code, i think a mime-type would be good
2020-08-14 20:40:00	@tomasino	text/gemini+stream
2020-08-14 20:40:31	acdw	what would you stream? that one telnet of A New Hope?
2020-08-14 20:40:36	kevinsan	i think if the convention was to identify a steam in the URL, then that would at least give prior warning.
2020-08-14 20:41:02	admicos	we need ansi escapes in gemini so we can do a new hope on gemini
2020-08-14 20:41:07	kevinsan	ascii animated manga - is that a think, i wonder?
2020-08-14 20:41:08	acdw	like */stream/* ?
2020-08-14 20:41:14	kevinsan	s/think/thing/
2020-08-14 20:41:15	acdw	ascii Akira
2020-08-14 20:41:16	admicos	geminis://
2020-08-14 20:41:38	acdw	Asciira
2020-08-14 20:41:43	@tomasino	the irc thing is a good example, or logs
2020-08-14 20:41:45	acdw	Ansira
2020-08-14 20:41:56	acdw	tomasino you can just spam Refresh
2020-08-14 20:41:58	acdw	:P
2020-08-14 20:42:01	@tomasino	especially if you bundle it with solderpunk's micro-gemini services idea
2020-08-14 20:42:23	kevinsan	what are micro-gemini services?
2020-08-14 20:42:56	@tomasino	oh boy, i can't explain it well, but solderpunk did a big write up on his gemlog and the mailinglist a while back
2020-08-14 20:43:04	@tomasino	anyone remember where that might be?
2020-08-14 20:43:12	acdw	I think it's here? gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-gemini-applications.gmi
2020-08-14 20:43:16	kevinsan	I'll ask Gus
2020-08-14 20:43:27	acdw	^ yeah that's it
2020-08-14 20:43:33	@tomasino	yeah!
2020-08-14 20:43:37	acdw	HTTP mirror https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-gemini-applications.gmi
2020-08-14 20:56:35	▬▬▶	Peter has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 20:57:40	kevinsan	I can't grok the grammar here: (I know what CSRF is) "The threat of CSRF arises when you use a client which is authorised to do something consequential at site A to also consume content originating from site B."
2020-08-14 20:59:36	kevinsan	ok, i got it now. "The threat of CSRF arises when you use a client, which is authorised to do something consequential at site A, to also consume content originating from site B."
2020-08-14 21:03:21		mmmattyx has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-08-14 21:09:55	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 21:10:38		Peter has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 21:10:53	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 21:14:37	xj9	owo i like
2020-08-14 21:15:01	xj9	the again, i tend to lean in a similar direction to solderpunk
2020-08-14 21:15:28	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 21:15:56	lukee	kevinsan: can I put in a feature request for your IRC CGI script?
2020-08-14 21:16:22	lukee	that you have a URL parameter to allow the listing to be reversed - i.e. latest items from the top
2020-08-14 21:17:06	lukee	for example like gemini://gemini.susa.net/news.gmi which has the latest items at the top
2020-08-14 21:17:37	lukee	for my sins, I'm so used to the latest things being at the top of a list.
2020-08-14 21:18:09	lukee	so you might have for example gemini://gemini.susa.net/cgi-bin/gemini-irc?reversed as an option
2020-08-14 21:18:34	kevinsan	lukee, I did think about doing that, I think it makes sense for the purpose (quick glance at updates)
2020-08-14 21:19:48	lukee	I think it would only need the per-user entries reversed, not the entries within the user chunk.
2020-08-14 21:20:21	lukee	So a bit like top posted email, dare I say it without cowering
2020-08-14 21:26:23		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 21:26:36	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 21:48:40	kevinsan	tomasino, could streaming work by convention? that is, if the request is /mysyslog.stream, then a client could just choose not to time out?
2020-08-14 21:50:21	acdw	I don't see why not
2020-08-14 21:50:28	kevinsan	that way, the spec needn't change, clients can avoid streams, but clients can also choose to support them?
2020-08-14 21:53:13	lukee	ultimately there is no difference between a very slow feed and a stream
2020-08-14 21:53:29	acdw	+1
2020-08-14 21:53:31	lukee	whether you time out waiting for the end or not is up to you
2020-08-14 21:53:37	kevinsan	there is - there's intent.
2020-08-14 21:53:57	kevinsan	a slow feed intends to give you 100%, a stream is infinite.
2020-08-14 21:55:31	lukee	personally I've never really understood the purpose of streaming gemini, which is primarily a page based delivery protocol
2020-08-14 21:56:00	lukee	if it is to see an updated streamed log, why not use IRC which is designed for this
2020-08-14 21:57:17	lukee	I cant see what the other use cases are - am I missing something?
2020-08-14 21:57:19	acdw	moar protocols!
2020-08-14 21:57:30	acdw	pisces:// for streaming
2020-08-14 21:57:39	kevinsan	i see the use in it, and i don't see a reason to limit what gets done on the port. i don't like having to make a request to discover that I don't want something.
2020-08-14 21:58:23	lukee	but you have to design a protocol with a mode of use in mind - what is that mode?
2020-08-14 21:58:59	lukee	also I dont know what you mean when you say "i don't like having to make a request to discover that I don't want something"
2020-08-14 22:00:40	kevinsan	suppose there's a URL that's intended as a stream (the server will never close the connection). I can't know that it will do that until I make the request and either hit a timeout or get a (newly invented) response code.
2020-08-14 22:00:43	lukee	acdw: what is pisces:// is it a thing?
2020-08-14 22:01:16	acdw	lukee: no I made it up :P b/c of titan:// and gemini+stream:// suggestions from earlier
2020-08-14 22:01:36	lukee	that is a fundamental ambiguity of gemini not having a content-length.
2020-08-14 22:01:44	acdw	like, instead of extending gemini you could spec a new streaming profile which is basically like, gemini + streaming
2020-08-14 22:01:46	lukee	so you dont know when the end is supposed to be
2020-08-14 22:02:13	acdw	you *could* say that gemini is a streaming protocol, since there's no content-length. it streams until it stops
2020-08-14 22:02:20	acdw	i also might not know what i'm talking about
2020-08-14 22:02:48	lukee	acdw: I thought it was this (after a quick Google). It looks way above my pay grade: https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~jrex/papers/pisces-draft.pdf
2020-08-14 22:02:51	kevinsan	acdw, you could, but you could also say that, practically, it's not.
2020-08-14 22:03:06	@tomasino	If everyone built clients with stream as default it would work, but most easy libraries aren't designed that way
2020-08-14 22:03:12	acdw	true true
2020-08-14 22:03:23	@tomasino	That's why I think a mime is simplest now
2020-08-14 22:03:27	acdw	lukee oh lord i didn't make it past the title of that paper lol
2020-08-14 22:03:54	@tomasino	Clients are required to server text/gemini, but not anything else
2020-08-14 22:03:58	lukee	Also the gemini spec talks in terms of the co-ordination being that the server closes the request
2020-08-14 22:03:59	kevinsan	right, but why would a mime make those clients with easy libraries any happier?
2020-08-14 22:04:19	@tomasino	Define text/gemini+stream and clients can choose to implement it or not
2020-08-14 22:04:23	lukee	so that defines part of the expected coordination mode we design around
2020-08-14 22:04:58	lukee	I'm fine with whatever text/gemini+foo wants to be, just not the main content type
2020-08-14 22:05:02	kevinsan	tomasino, just declare it in the URL and non-steaming clients can ignore it.
2020-08-14 22:06:15		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-14 22:06:21	@tomasino	What I'm afraid of is that no acknowledgment at all will lead to a bunch of different side tests that only work in a narrow situation. Spec it and say it's optional and there's a standard approach
2020-08-14 22:06:55	lukee	But what is the use case - I still don't see it
2020-08-14 22:07:18	@tomasino	There's been a bunch of examples on the mailing list
2020-08-14 22:07:19	kevinsan	lukee, twitter feeds!
2020-08-14 22:07:29	lukee	urgh
2020-08-14 22:07:47	lukee	what else?
2020-08-14 22:07:55	@tomasino	A chat application, streaming logs, real time data, news ticker
2020-08-14 22:08:46	lukee	I still think this is outside the core application area - arent there existing protocols for that kind of thing?
2020-08-14 22:08:47	@tomasino	All we need to do is say, hey, if this mime shows up the connection is streaming. Display as it comes in
2020-08-14 22:08:59	lukee	no its not as simple as that
2020-08-14 22:09:06	@tomasino	gemtext is perfect for it
2020-08-14 22:09:14	@tomasino	Line based top down processed
2020-08-14 22:09:17	lukee	gemtext is perfect for lots of things
2020-08-14 22:09:26	lukee	but its more about the protocol I'm talking about
2020-08-14 22:09:57	lukee	the spec says you go client request-> server response and close
2020-08-14 22:10:38	easeout	is it accurate to say that gemtext is just the killer app mime type for the gemini protocol?
2020-08-14 22:11:00	easeout	and if that's true, is there a reason streaming needs to exist in this particular protocol, instead of streaming gemtext elsewhere?
2020-08-14 22:11:31	xj9	gemtext+9p you mean?
2020-08-14 22:11:41	companion_cube	that'd be fun
2020-08-14 22:11:44	lukee	easeout: I would say perhaps, simple hypertext pages are the killer app of gemini+gemtext
2020-08-14 22:12:13	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 22:12:31	easeout	yeah i see what you mean; it's not a perfect analogy
2020-08-14 22:13:05	easeout	but gemini can send other things besides gemtext is what i mean, and gemtext is the most common mime type … but in the end it is just an encoding and can exist elsewhere
2020-08-14 22:13:14	lukee	yes
2020-08-14 22:13:14	easeout	i should say a format, not an encoding
2020-08-14 22:13:32	lukee	and you can send other content types - like PDF/images if you need to
2020-08-14 22:13:57	xj9	i don't remember, was somebody making a geminifs?
2020-08-14 22:13:58	lukee	but the overwhelming majority of content in geminispace is text/gemini
2020-08-14 22:14:01	mmmattyx	huh, i was just wondering if people would be upset about sending `application/wasm` over gemini
2020-08-14 22:14:09	easeout	agreed lukee
2020-08-14 22:14:24	easeout	and i also think the overwhelming majority would remain non-streamed text/gemini
2020-08-14 22:14:41	easeout	even if a streaming option existed
2020-08-14 22:15:00	lukee	mmmattx: whatever you want I think, its up to the client to decide what to do with it
2020-08-14 22:15:31	kevinsan	mmmattyx, i don't see why anyone would object. it's intended for small files, but if you transfer in less time than the timeout, and your server will serve the file type, then alls good!
2020-08-14 22:16:19	acdw	I mean you *can* even do huge binary files -- e.g. konpeito.media
2020-08-14 22:17:13	xj9	as long as the client can handle it, i exploded av98 trying to download a 200M tar.gz file off of my tilde
2020-08-14 22:17:14	kevinsan	exactly, freedom and choice. just don't leave me hanging around forever waiting for a line of text that's never going to arrive.
2020-08-14 22:17:17	lukee	I just realised, I think the other thing I'm ambivalent about the streaming mode is that it is a shift from client pull based autonomy, to server push
2020-08-14 22:17:27	xj9	or maybe it exploded jetforce i didn't actually check, just didn't work
2020-08-14 22:17:42	acdw	lukee that is a great point
2020-08-14 22:17:56	lukee	personally I think that is an important philosophical shift
2020-08-14 22:18:26	acdw	the more i think about it the more i think a diff protocol would be good. keeps it really obvious what's going on
2020-08-14 22:18:39	@tomasino	Jetforce has big issues with large files
2020-08-14 22:18:42	easeout	you mean like, if gemini begins offering persistent connection streaming, then it is less of an in-and-out transaction where the user sees and controls every request that happens?
2020-08-14 22:18:44	acdw	don't even have to download the first line to get a mimetype
2020-08-14 22:18:51	@tomasino	That's why konpeito keeps crashing
2020-08-14 22:19:01	acdw	oh THAT's why, lol
2020-08-14 22:19:02	lukee	easeout: yes
2020-08-14 22:19:24	easeout	yeah, i think i agree. that's part of the appeal of gemini to me, that i know it's not doing anything "extra"
2020-08-14 22:19:32	@tomasino	User still controls the request and gets one ongoing document
2020-08-14 22:19:36	easeout	or "background"
2020-08-14 22:19:57	easeout	that's true, if it was persistent but "foreground" i may not mind
2020-08-14 22:19:59	@tomasino	It's not creating threads of who knows what in the background
2020-08-14 22:20:04	easeout	yee
2020-08-14 22:20:06	lukee	instead of streaming, why not just have a polling client?
2020-08-14 22:20:17	acdw	^ that would work, just refresh every 30s
2020-08-14 22:20:22	@tomasino	Because the uses may be different
2020-08-14 22:20:22	easeout	works for liveblogs.
2020-08-14 22:20:31	kevinsan	lukee, it wouldn't work for audio
2020-08-14 22:21:04	easeout	very interesting discussion, thanks y'all
2020-08-14 22:21:23	lukee	kevinsan: what do you want to do with audio - some kind of live feed? That seems way outside the main use case IMO
2020-08-14 22:21:27	@tomasino	If could hook a thermal printer up to a Gemini stream and read back the weather info in a permanent log
2020-08-14 22:21:52	lukee	tomasino: that could be done with polling
2020-08-14 22:21:53	Sario	tomasino: that sounds cool
2020-08-14 22:22:17	kevinsan	lukee, i don't want to do anything with audio (or streaming generally), i was just pointing that polling wouldn't work for that type of streamed content
2020-08-14 22:22:36	lukee	kevinsan: ok I agree, its not good for live audio
2020-08-14 22:23:00	acdw	poll 14400x a second
2020-08-14 22:23:07	lukee	eek
2020-08-14 22:23:09	acdw	:P
2020-08-14 22:23:52	easeout	if you're getting requests so frequently that you can hear them arrive…
2020-08-14 22:24:38	kevinsan	you could probably listen to your ethernet transformers hum and hear the waveform.
2020-08-14 22:25:29	@tomasino	Speech-to-text broadcast over a gemini stream for sexy accessible presentations
2020-08-14 22:26:02	lukee	maybe video with subtitles is better?!
2020-08-14 22:26:33	@tomasino	If you're doing video?
2020-08-14 22:27:02	@tomasino	Radio for the deaf on the fly
2020-08-14 22:27:13	lukee	spoken by a robot?
2020-08-14 22:27:19	@tomasino	No history, just connect to tune in
2020-08-14 22:27:51	@tomasino	Spoken by NPR, pipe it through Watson's speech to text feature
2020-08-14 22:28:09	lukee	Is this what gemini is for though?
2020-08-14 22:28:28	lukee	we cant solve the world's protocol needs with a single protocol
2020-08-14 22:28:34	@tomasino	An extremely accessible text based protocol? Yes
2020-08-14 22:28:51	@tomasino	We can do this with very little effort and not break anything
2020-08-14 22:28:56	@tomasino	If we choose to
2020-08-14 22:29:00	lukee	no it does break stuff
2020-08-14 22:29:16	@tomasino	I'm literally coming up with valuable ideas on the spot and I'm one person
2020-08-14 22:29:27	lukee	I'm great with that :)
2020-08-14 22:29:32	@tomasino	It breaks nothing
2020-08-14 22:29:39	login	the npr accent needs to be perfect
2020-08-14 22:29:40	@tomasino	You don't HAVE to stream
2020-08-14 22:29:44	acdw	a new protocol, the one protocol to rule them all
2020-08-14 22:29:52	xj9	9p you mean?
2020-08-14 22:29:55	@tomasino	You're client doesn't HAVE to support it
2020-08-14 22:30:07	lukee	it breaks the basic client controlled request->server response and close model
2020-08-14 22:30:16	xj9	as someone who is here for the minimalism, i'm actually on board with streaming
2020-08-14 22:30:17	kevinsan	I agree, it doesn't break anything - it just changes behaviour.
2020-08-14 22:30:18	@tomasino	That's a one sentence exception
2020-08-14 22:30:24	@tomasino	It doesn't break it
2020-08-14 22:30:38	lukee	it breaks assumptions of how servers behave
2020-08-14 22:30:54	xj9	i will try to resist building a mesh network on top of streaming gemini
2020-08-14 22:30:55	@tomasino	If streaming, don't expect close before you process. FIN
2020-08-14 22:31:07	acdw	xj9: lol yes
2020-08-14 22:32:31	lukee	of course one can do whatever one likes with the transient stream, but the current model is document based, so there is an expectation that the server closes before the content is delivered
2020-08-14 22:33:11	easeout	i will say that does sound like a pretty surgical change at the protocol level
2020-08-14 22:33:12	kevinsan	that's essentially why i want to know in advance that a URL is expected to be a stream.
2020-08-14 22:33:34	@tomasino	Yes, the in progress spec says a thing I'm suggesting we caveat for one specific addition that supports a whole host of cool possibilities in a completely optional way
2020-08-14 22:33:41	lukee	if we had content-length it would be an awful lot easier
2020-08-14 22:33:45	lukee	but that was rejected
2020-08-14 22:33:53	lukee	probably for good reasons
2020-08-14 22:34:10	kevinsan	content length still requires me to make a request to something it transpires i didn't want
2020-08-14 22:34:32	kevinsan	or that my client can't support (e.g. maybe my library doesn't let me set a timeout)
2020-08-14 22:34:47	lukee	but the server would be able to indicate how much content is expected before close
2020-08-14 22:34:52	easeout	so, the "completely optional" part. it's optional because, why, as a client you can declare your capability to stream, and then the server knows to behave differently on certain pages? and if you don't, then it still just sends a current state and closes?
2020-08-14 22:35:02	lukee	(for the static content scenario)
2020-08-14 22:35:34	@tomasino	As a client you get an unsupported mine type and kill the load
2020-08-14 22:35:38	@tomasino	Mime
2020-08-14 22:35:48	easeout	ok, i don't feel like that's optional then, as a client
2020-08-14 22:35:59	easeout	i feel like if i don't implement that, i break part of the experience of gemini for my users
2020-08-14 22:36:15	lukee	I'm fine with getting a mime type and timing out or abandoning a non-closing server feed
2020-08-14 22:36:30	@tomasino	If you don't support downloading binary files, or loading images, same thing
2020-08-14 22:36:46	lukee	its not the same thing
2020-08-14 22:36:56	kevinsan	if my client is a ncat, or s_client, or gnutls-cli, or something else, you can't be sure I can make those decisions at response time.
2020-08-14 22:37:16	lukee	those are fixed length packets of content
2020-08-14 22:37:22	@tomasino	If you're using those it'll just work
2020-08-14 22:37:39	kevinsan	no, it'll hang
2020-08-14 22:37:51	@tomasino	Ncat displays as it comes in
2020-08-14 22:38:08	acdw	from what I remember s_client *does* hang
2020-08-14 22:38:13	acdw	or times out
2020-08-14 22:38:21	acdw	it's been a while since I checked tho
2020-08-14 22:38:28	@tomasino	Not familiar with that one
2020-08-14 22:38:38	kevinsan	the point isn't so much specific implementations, it's the principle that the client may not be able to make these decisions at response time.
2020-08-14 22:39:33	kevinsan	so the request/response model of gemini is broken without some means of identifying a stream up-front.
2020-08-14 22:39:46	easeout	so what about at request time like an accept header
2020-08-14 22:39:51	@tomasino	gemini+stream://?
2020-08-14 22:39:55	easeout	or that
2020-08-14 22:39:56	lukee	my take on it is that there is a fundamental principle that the client is in control and expects a fixed stream to be delivered
2020-08-14 22:40:05	kevinsan	then you place the burden on the client to mitigate infinite responses
2020-08-14 22:40:20	kevinsan	that seems wrong (and needlessly complicated)
2020-08-14 22:40:31	easeout	my take is like lukee's except i could be ok with streaming if it's foreground not background; i would still feel in control
2020-08-14 22:41:13	easeout	but i would then want it to be in the spec, optional for the moment, but necessary if content takes off
2020-08-14 22:41:13	lukee	easeout: an accept header would help, but we dont have anything like that
2020-08-14 22:41:25	easeout	ok yep
2020-08-14 22:42:01	lukee	tomasino: you have a lot of experience of gopher  - is there any streaming in gopher space?
2020-08-14 22:42:06	@tomasino	Yes
2020-08-14 22:42:16	lukee	is it widely supported?
2020-08-14 22:42:34	@tomasino	There's audio streams and one guy was doing video for a while
2020-08-14 22:43:15	@tomasino	It's not common, no
2020-08-14 22:43:21	easeout	i could see streaming audio and video as requiring a more sophisticated client than what's strictly required
2020-08-14 22:43:23	@tomasino	Just a few examples here and there
2020-08-14 22:43:24	easeout	and if it's not common, nbd
2020-08-14 22:43:44	@tomasino	Mostly using the binary type
2020-08-14 22:43:45	easeout	but streaming _text_ seems like it should be supported more broadly and might show up more places
2020-08-14 22:44:13	@tomasino	It would be very useful. I mean we already have a working chat room 
2020-08-14 22:44:15	easeout	that is, if it's specced at all, it may become necessary to make it nonoptional
2020-08-14 22:44:50	@tomasino	It would be great if there was a safe and reliable way to support it that didn't freak people out
2020-08-14 22:45:06	easeout	yeah. so what exactly are we freaked out by
2020-08-14 22:45:32	@tomasino	The spec says the connection closes then you process
2020-08-14 22:45:42	easeout	for my part, i like that the spec is small and i feel like i could implement it fast, and i don't know how much effort this would add to building a cilent.
2020-08-14 22:45:47	lukee	I think another protocol, so it is clearly indicated in advance that you can expect a non closing stream
2020-08-14 22:45:51	easeout	or a server for that matter
2020-08-14 22:46:05	lukee	like titan:// sets expectations of alternative behaviour
2020-08-14 22:46:36	easeout	true. i do look to the protocol in a link to know what to expect, especially since there are so many links to gopher and http around gemini.
2020-08-14 22:46:41	lukee	I've changed my mind that trying to indicate this in the content-type is sufficient
2020-08-14 22:47:10	easeout	you mean, because users don't see it before the reqeust is made?
2020-08-14 22:47:14	easeout	-request
2020-08-14 22:47:36	lukee	yes, with an alternative protocol marker in the url you know what to expect
2020-08-14 22:47:46	easeout	i'm down with that
2020-08-14 22:47:50	@tomasino	Gemini+stream://
2020-08-14 22:48:01	easeout	mhm
2020-08-14 22:48:04	@tomasino	Kk
2020-08-14 22:48:07	lukee	yeah, or some other name. Doesnt really matter I dont think
2020-08-14 22:48:40	easeout	so if it's like a sister protocol, then maybe if your client is a one day project, your multiprotocol client is a two day project.
2020-08-14 22:48:41	@tomasino	I think Titan ended up using gemini+write, didn't it?
2020-08-14 22:48:53	acdw	no i think it uses titan://
2020-08-14 22:49:03	@tomasino	Poop
2020-08-14 22:49:17	lukee	its still WIP, but one implementation is going with titan://
2020-08-14 22:49:23	acdw	gemini://transjovian.org/page/Titan
2020-08-14 22:49:32	acdw	so.. pisces:// ??? lol
2020-08-14 22:49:37	lukee	:)
2020-08-14 22:49:56	acdw	or ether://
2020-08-14 22:50:09	lukee	acdw: you'll have to negotiate with the Princeton and Stanford authors of that paper
2020-08-14 22:50:10	acdw	since it's ~ethereal~ .. and gemini is also apparently a cryptocurrency
2020-08-14 22:50:14	acdw	oh right lol
2020-08-14 22:51:03	easeout	i'd push for a standard form centering on the family name "gemini"
2020-08-14 22:51:11	lukee	Personally I'm happy if these "sibling" protocols are gemini+foo://, but that may imply a degree of officialness
2020-08-14 22:51:20	acdw	yeah that's fair
2020-08-14 22:51:25	@tomasino	I'd prefer it as well
2020-08-14 22:51:28	acdw	but the creative writer in me wants all these fun names
2020-08-14 22:51:38	@tomasino	Streaming is barely anything new
2020-08-14 22:51:50	@tomasino	It's so close having it's own name seems silly
2020-08-14 22:52:01	acdw	argo://
2020-08-14 22:52:02	acdw	:P
2020-08-14 22:52:07	easeout	as a user i want to understand what i'm using. so one name to learn, plus descriptive variant suffixes, sounds best
2020-08-14 22:52:10	@tomasino	It's not looking to work on a different port even
2020-08-14 22:52:16	lukee	twinstream://
2020-08-14 22:52:26	acdw	all the protocols!!!
2020-08-14 22:52:48	acdw	define a new protocol using the protocol:// protocol
2020-08-14 22:52:56	acdw	protocol://gemini.1969
2020-08-14 22:52:57	@tomasino	I'll suggest gemini+stream://. Seems like the Titan bandwagon is already underway but I preferred +write
2020-08-14 22:53:14	xj9	protocol://tcp/tls/gemini/1969/
2020-08-14 22:53:14	acdw	tomasino honestly you're right
2020-08-14 22:53:21	xj9	so were in IPFS land now
2020-08-14 22:53:25	acdw	lol yes
2020-08-14 22:53:26	lukee	kensanata said titan:// is just a sort of working title
2020-08-14 22:53:30	companion_cube	I'd rather have a IPFS like protocol
2020-08-14 22:53:33	companion_cube	but one that works
2020-08-14 22:53:40	acdw	gemini+ipfs :)
2020-08-14 22:53:41	companion_cube	(ie not this gigantic sluggish thing that is IPFS)
2020-08-14 22:53:56	@tomasino	Mmm, slug
2020-08-14 22:53:59	acdw	hydra://
2020-08-14 22:54:01	acdw	slug://
2020-08-14 22:54:08	xj9	every time i see an ipfs chart it has more parts to it i hate it
2020-08-14 22:54:11	@tomasino	hail+Hydra://
2020-08-14 22:54:18	lukee	personally I preferred the gemini+write:// proposal to titan://
2020-08-14 22:54:34	@tomasino	Well that makes of us
2020-08-14 22:54:46	@tomasino	Someone remember to tell Alex when he comes back on
2020-08-14 22:55:02	lukee	I did and he said: just get on and implement something better
2020-08-14 22:55:10	lukee	which is fair enough
2020-08-14 22:55:27	@tomasino	Mmm
2020-08-14 22:55:33	⚡	lukee updates todo list
2020-08-14 22:56:59		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-14 23:00:00		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 23:00:07	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 23:03:35		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 23:03:41	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 23:07:48		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 23:07:54	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 23:18:33		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 23:18:48	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-14 23:26:32	mmmattyx	i saw someone mention ncat earlier. would `ncat -l --keep-open --exec <whatever>` work for a gemini server, with ncat's tls functionality?
2020-08-14 23:26:48	mmmattyx	i was thinking about linking to a tls library but that seems much simpler
2020-08-14 23:35:34		DealPete has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-14 23:36:01	⚡	tomasino is almost done writing a big long streaming post to the mailing list
2020-08-14 23:36:07	@tomasino	lukee, get your red pen ready
2020-08-14 23:36:24	lukee	:)
2020-08-14 23:37:28	lukee	my red pen might have to wait till tomorrow, its a bit late here. But I'll keep an eye out for it
2020-08-14 23:39:42	@tomasino	just sent
2020-08-14 23:39:46	@tomasino	we'll see how long the list takes
2020-08-14 23:41:35	easeout	thanks for writing this up!
2020-08-14 23:43:31	easeout	i think you covered the discussion well
2020-08-14 23:43:38	@tomasino	oh good
2020-08-14 23:43:46	lukee	tomasino: I think your post is a good write up and fair
2020-08-14 23:44:25	@tomasino	whew
2020-08-14 23:44:58	lukee	perhaps a clarification is that its not just that end users can benefit from advance knowledge of the upcoming interaction, but it is clients too that can take appropriate action
2020-08-14 23:45:32	@tomasino	true true
2020-08-14 23:45:45	@tomasino	like put a big red X on it and say "no"
2020-08-14 23:45:46	@tomasino	:D
2020-08-14 23:46:29	lukee	When I was a teenager, my parents briefly sent me to some out of school coaching to help improve my grades
2020-08-14 23:46:52	lukee	one of the coaching teachers had a big red rubber stamp which said "BOLLOCKS" on it
2020-08-14 23:47:05	lukee	he used it in preference to a red pen. it was great
2020-08-14 23:47:15	easeout	that's terrific
2020-08-14 23:47:20	@tomasino	haha
2020-08-14 23:47:23	@tomasino	noice
2020-08-14 23:47:58	lukee	humour has a huge value in education
2020-08-14 23:49:35	lukee	I should go to bed now - o/
2020-08-14 23:50:02	@tomasino	night!!
2020-08-14 23:50:33		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-15 00:08:34	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 00:42:15	easeout	i've been dating my glog entries based on my local time (UTC-4). i often post in the evening, such that at UTC+0 it's actually midnight or later the next day.
2020-08-15 00:42:41	@tomasino	fair enough
2020-08-15 00:42:48	easeout	CAPCOM reads my atom feed, sees 8 PM UTC-4 on 8/13, and decides that means 8/14, and that's how i get indexed
2020-08-15 00:43:03	@tomasino	welp, that'd be accurate too. :)
2020-08-15 00:43:10	@tomasino	sorta
2020-08-15 00:43:39	easeout	that seems pretty reasonable when i think about it, but it means if there is no time zone formatting for display on the client in gemini, perhaps there is a suitable default time zone to present everything in
2020-08-15 00:44:30	easeout	like maybe i should be dating my posts according to the current time in UTC, because i'm not going to format dates into clients' time zones in page responses
2020-08-15 00:45:36	easeout	and if that was just part of the content creation social norms, then it'd be simplest for readers on the whole
2020-08-15 00:46:52	easeout	i'm only assuming CAPCOM uses UTC. all i know is it skipped me to the next day.
2020-08-15 00:48:52	@tomasino	i just post everything at 0000UTC
2020-08-15 00:49:00	@tomasino	i can't be bothered to check the time
2020-08-15 00:49:02	@tomasino	i'm doing this by hand
2020-08-15 00:49:49	easeout	i have a little static site generator, and yesterday i baked 8 PM into it beacuse i'm usually on here in the evenings
2020-08-15 00:49:55	easeout	-because
2020-08-15 00:52:10	easeout	i probably need to bite the bullet and use actual timestamps instead of just dates in filenames. then the right answer will just fall out of a format function.
2020-08-15 00:52:42	@tomasino	if it is an issue for you, go for it
2020-08-15 00:52:52	@tomasino	i'll read things whenever they show up regardless
2020-08-15 01:13:57		evets has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-15 01:18:03		cyflea has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-15 01:42:46		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-15 02:18:22	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 02:54:29		Sario528 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-15 03:14:36		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-15 03:15:15	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 03:17:42		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-15 03:22:42		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-15 03:24:03	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 03:26:09	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 03:26:59	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 03:28:00	easeout	i did that thing, and wrote it up gemini://tilde.team/~easeout/glog/2020-08-15-dates-in-gemini.gmi
2020-08-15 03:36:57		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-15 03:42:02		mmmattyx has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-08-15 07:54:44	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 08:12:16	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 08:37:37		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-15 08:39:51	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 08:58:29	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 09:08:32		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-15 09:16:41	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 09:17:44	lukee	kevinsan: thanks for the new sorting option in your gemini IRC log decrufter/viewer!
2020-08-15 09:48:16	lukee	tomasino: just replied to your message. Generally you get a thumbs up from me, not a red rubber stamp :)
2020-08-15 09:55:10	@tomasino	:)
2020-08-15 09:58:12	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 10:01:28	CommunistWolf	I like the streaming-mode proposal \o/
2020-08-15 10:03:17		vee has quit (quit: Quit)
2020-08-15 10:03:26	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 10:03:43	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 10:08:03		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-15 10:26:13	@tomasino	o/
2020-08-15 10:26:26		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-15 10:32:38	epoch	CommunistWolf: is it on the mailing list?
2020-08-15 10:32:59	epoch	ah. gemini+stream://
2020-08-15 10:33:18	epoch	hrm... not sure about the choice of URI scheme
2020-08-15 11:07:54		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-15 11:14:23	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 11:15:50	kevinsan	lukee, you're welcome. it's was a worthwhile enhancement
2020-08-15 11:16:59	kevinsan	epoch, what would your approach be to identifying up-front that a URL refers to a streamed resource?
2020-08-15 11:31:04	epoch	gemini-stream://
2020-08-15 11:31:06	epoch	probably
2020-08-15 11:33:16	epoch	a + is usually used between two different protocols when one is being done over another, like svn+ssh
2020-08-15 11:34:39	epoch	oh. weird. stream is already a URI
2020-08-15 11:34:59	epoch	oh. nvm. I read "steam" wrong.
2020-08-15 11:35:12	epoch	heh
2020-08-15 12:22:05		natpen has quit (quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 27.1)
2020-08-15 13:21:52	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 13:25:41	easeout	hyphen works for me
2020-08-15 14:01:47	⚡	tomasino shrugs
2020-08-15 14:14:23	admicos	i should really make a static site generator of sorts, i forgot to update my atom feed for an entire day since posting something
2020-08-15 14:29:32	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 14:33:19	acdw	shouldn't be too hard! oh -- or you could use solderpunk's gemfeed: https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemfeed
2020-08-15 14:36:58	admicos	i already have a script to generate the feed, i just forget to update it :p
2020-08-15 14:37:14	acdw	oh haha
2020-08-15 14:49:39	easeout	i had a good time writing one too.
2020-08-15 14:59:19	makeworld	Have y'all see the email about flounder.online
2020-08-15 14:59:26	makeworld	Looks like an awesome site
2020-08-15 14:59:51	acdw	yes, it looks vv cool!
2020-08-15 15:00:15	makeworld	Beautiful CSS
2020-08-15 15:00:35	makeworld	And it's very cool to see gemtext being used outside Gemini
2020-08-15 15:00:45	acdw	haha yes!
2020-08-15 15:01:36	acdw	can you access it thru gemini tho?
2020-08-15 15:02:15	acdw	hey a vv important question: I'm forking gemlog.blue for breadpunk. but what should I name it!?
2020-08-15 15:02:35	acdw	breadlog is fine, but sort of.... generic?
2020-08-15 15:07:03	admicos	"slices of bread"
2020-08-15 15:07:11	admicos	but that implies more of a microblogging type thing
2020-08-15 15:07:24	acdw	haha slices.breadpunk.clbu
2020-08-15 15:07:29	acdw	s/clbu/club
2020-08-15 15:07:37	acdw	i kinda like it
2020-08-15 15:14:00	lucidiot	maybe slices for gemlogs but crumbs for microblogging
2020-08-15 15:14:11	lucidiot	hi there :p
2020-08-15 15:14:51	lucidiot	sharing one of my favorite text graph packages because i want to see lots of ascii illustrations on text protocols: https://github.com/guptarohit/asciigraph
2020-08-15 15:14:56	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/journal/08-15-2020-the-source-draft.gmi
2020-08-15 15:14:59	lucidiot	because text doesn't have to be just text™
2020-08-15 15:16:11	acdw	hehe lucidiot
2020-08-15 15:17:49	acdw	Cadey: ooh cool, I like roleplay over gemtext
2020-08-15 15:18:11	mmmattyx	lucidiot: that ping graph example was pretty cool
2020-08-15 15:18:11	acdw	(maybe that's actually a good use for streaming)
2020-08-15 15:18:27	acdw	re: Dungeon Master, how about Narrator?
2020-08-15 15:19:07	acdw	lucidiot: yes please! now we just need someone to gemify fivethirtyeight lol
2020-08-15 15:19:10	acdw	or something like that
2020-08-15 15:20:29	Cadey	acdw: plus it's really easy to convert gemtext into other formats
2020-08-15 15:21:00	acdw	this is vv true :)
2020-08-15 15:21:18	acdw	I'm thinking of re-doing my whole website in gemini and converting to html for the web
2020-08-15 15:21:35	Cadey	i plan to turn The Source into an eBook to sell on itch.io as well as making it available for free via gemini
2020-08-15 15:22:14	lucidiot	what is fivethirtyeight?
2020-08-15 15:22:15	acdw	that sounds great. i'm still on my first campaign in 5e (i think?), want to get further into RP
2020-08-15 15:22:44	acdw	lucidiot: https://fivethirtyeight.com/ is an American political site, vv data-driven
2020-08-15 15:22:52	acdw	lots of charts and figures and polls and stuff
2020-08-15 15:25:11	lucidiot	interesting
2020-08-15 15:25:28	lucidiot	i can't open Cadey's link on kristall, it times out D:
2020-08-15 15:26:45	Cadey	one moment, let me attach to my gemini server's console
2020-08-15 15:26:46	acdw	it took a while to load for me
2020-08-15 15:26:53	Cadey	lucidiot: try again?
2020-08-15 15:28:17	⚡	lucidiot presses f5
2020-08-15 15:28:27	lucidiot	acdw: a while as in minutes?
2020-08-15 15:28:39	lucidiot	kristall has a default timeout of 5s apparently, i increased it 30
2020-08-15 15:28:44	lucidiot	to 30*
2020-08-15 15:29:00	lucidiot	gonna try with av98
2020-08-15 15:29:20	lucidiot	lol instantaneous load
2020-08-15 15:29:29	Cadey	ah
2020-08-15 15:29:31	Cadey	heisenbugs
2020-08-15 15:29:33	Cadey	:D
2020-08-15 15:29:50	acdw	no it took ... maybe 20s
2020-08-15 15:29:59	acdw	in elpher
2020-08-15 15:31:40	makeworld	acdw> can you access it thru gemini tho?
2020-08-15 15:31:48	makeworld	Yes you can, just not the homepage yet
2020-08-15 15:31:54	makeworld	Try a subdomain like alex.flounder.com and it will work
2020-08-15 15:31:57	acdw	thanks makeworld !
2020-08-15 15:32:04	acdw	found it ... looks really cool
2020-08-15 15:32:40	makeworld	Yeah :)
2020-08-15 15:33:10	makeworld	Also where is the gemlog.blue code?
2020-08-15 15:34:47	acdw	https://git.rawtext.club/sloum/gemlog.blue
2020-08-15 15:35:42	lucidiot	why the heck is thunderbird mapping itself to every single http link aaa you're not a browser
2020-08-15 15:36:06	acdw	ooof that sucks
2020-08-15 15:36:25	acdw	i hate when IE opens urls on windows and takes 100000 years when I have firefox open RIGHT THERE
2020-08-15 15:44:12	lucidiot	rename firefox `iexplore.exe`
2020-08-15 15:44:14	lucidiot	fixed
2020-08-15 15:45:33	makeworld	acdw: Integrate spacewalk if you can!
2020-08-15 15:45:47	makeworld	lucidiot: What a cursed solution lolol
2020-08-15 15:46:02	lucidiot	welcome to windows,
2020-08-15 15:46:07	lucidiot	it's all cursed, everywhere
2020-08-15 15:46:17	lucidiot	just curses on top of curses
2020-08-15 15:46:24	lucidiot	on linux it's ncurses on top of curses,
2020-08-15 15:48:30	acdw	lucidiot: lolol yes
2020-08-15 15:48:36	acdw	makeworld: will try :)
2020-08-15 15:50:22	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 16:34:45	@tomasino	Nice speed progress, Cadey
2020-08-15 16:34:56	@tomasino	I'll read through the source later today too
2020-08-15 16:39:22		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-15 16:39:31		thunk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-15 16:41:10	Cadey	yeah, i'm going to reconstruct a table/graph of my typing speeds that i've been keeping track of for my main blog post about this
2020-08-15 16:41:47	acdw	ooh use that ascii-chart thing!
2020-08-15 17:00:17		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-15 17:00:28	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 17:06:21	makeworld	gemini://tilde.team/~easeout/glog/2020-08-15-dates-in-gemini.gmi
2020-08-15 17:06:32	makeworld	Was really hoping it'd be about the launch of a tindr gemini app...
2020-08-15 17:06:51	makeworld	Although I suppose the Gemini take on it would be just be bios??
2020-08-15 17:07:07	easeout	ha, sorry about that
2020-08-15 17:07:33	easeout	no, it's about time zones, the least sexy topic there is
2020-08-15 17:08:08	admicos	there needs to be a dating app where you always match with someone on the exact opposite time zone
2020-08-15 17:08:22	admicos	so if you were to message them at 12pm, they'd get the mssage in 12am
2020-08-15 17:08:27	makeworld	Lol
2020-08-15 17:08:31	admicos	(in their timezone)
2020-08-15 17:08:35	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/makeworld.gq/gus-graph/graph.png?raw=1
2020-08-15 17:08:41	makeworld	Look at the spike of new domains
2020-08-15 17:08:59	makeworld	Could just be because of a GUS crawl, but interesting
2020-08-15 17:09:46	Sario	I think the up and down of the page count is more interesting
2020-08-15 17:10:07	makeworld	That's just because certain domains went offline or were moved
2020-08-15 17:10:20	makeworld	Like for the big changes
2020-08-15 17:10:34	makeworld	I believe it was one or several of kensanata's wikis
2020-08-15 17:10:36	admicos	hmm, what if i were to wildcard forward all subdomains into a page that generated links to random subdomains, how bad would gus break?
2020-08-15 17:11:00	makeworld	Uh oh
2020-08-15 17:11:07	makeworld	Don't do that lol
2020-08-15 17:11:09	Sario	Please don't break gus
2020-08-15 17:20:44	vee	I think the spike in domains is from flounder!
2020-08-15 17:29:07	makeworld	Woah cool
2020-08-15 17:29:19	makeworld	How'd you find them, since there's no list of them on Gemini afaik
2020-08-15 17:29:40	easeout	admicos: earth sandwich dating
2020-08-15 17:32:49	vee	makeworld: a couple of its subdomains got submitted as seed requests, it looks like. I haven't looked at them all, but maybe they all eventually link out to each other?
2020-08-15 17:33:40	makeworld	I just submitted one today :)
2020-08-15 17:33:50	makeworld	Idk, maybe they do all link together. I thought only a few did
2020-08-15 17:35:09	makeworld	Alright so GUS knows of 24, and there are 30 total
2020-08-15 17:35:14	makeworld	Not bad!
2020-08-15 17:35:46	makeworld	Amfora might be getting its first contributor which is pretty cool
2020-08-15 19:04:23	acdw	hey do yall know anything about molly-brown's Port config setting?
2020-08-15 19:04:33	acdw	i'm trying to set it on my server but it's sticking to 1965
2020-08-15 19:27:07	acdw	nvm, update got it to work
2020-08-15 19:35:00	acdw	OH M GEEEEE
2020-08-15 19:35:06	acdw	i did it, i'm happy :)
2020-08-15 19:47:55	@tomasino	yay
2020-08-15 19:47:57	@tomasino	well done
2020-08-15 20:09:40	makeworld	Ha nice!
2020-08-15 20:11:47	@tomasino	la la la
2020-08-15 20:16:42	makeworld	Tra la la!
2020-08-15 20:25:48	acdw	:D
2020-08-15 20:26:01	acdw	hope to have a good news announcement by tomorrow evening
2020-08-15 20:59:21		mmmattyx has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-08-15 21:56:55		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-08-15 22:20:18		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-15 22:23:22	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 22:31:10		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-15 22:35:37	kevinsan	Dear flounder: "Gemini is a plaintext format with a very limited set of features." s/very/deliberately/
2020-08-15 22:36:16	kevinsan	that would convey more useful information.
2020-08-15 22:37:52	kevinsan	similarly with the subsequent sentence.
2020-08-15 22:55:26	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 23:10:51	▬▬▶	natpen has joined #gemini
2020-08-15 23:10:57		natpen has quit (quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 27.1)
2020-08-16 02:21:04	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-16 02:25:05		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-16 02:33:10		mmmattyx has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-08-16 08:02:20	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-16 08:19:34		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-16 10:01:04	jan	I've finally implemented certificate pinning for ncgopher. See https://github.com/jansc/ncgopher
2020-08-16 13:58:19	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-16 14:20:20	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-16 14:21:22	lukee	just saw this "illustrated guide to TLS" via HN https://tls.ulfheim.net/
2020-08-16 14:21:53	lukee	depicts a simple TLS 1.2 sessoin
2020-08-16 14:22:06	lukee	session->session
2020-08-16 14:22:26	lukee	I mean sessoin->session!
2020-08-16 14:22:32	@tomasino	ahh yeah i saw someone post it on fedi but haven't looked
2020-08-16 14:22:38	@tomasino	probably quite helpful for this stuff
2020-08-16 14:24:09	lukee	lots of soul searching around at the moment about the future of the web following Firefox layoffs
2020-08-16 14:26:22	lukee	this one asserts Google will continue to prop up Mozilla to avoid anti trust problems https://landshark.io/2020/08/16/web-by-google.html
2020-08-16 14:27:18	@tomasino	it would be smart, but the anti-trust blood is already in the water
2020-08-16 14:27:38	@tomasino	there's suits in the EU already and Fortnight's thing about the app stores is gonig to bring a lot of focus
2020-08-16 14:27:50	@tomasino	AT&T's suits took 8 years before they got broken up, though
2020-08-16 14:27:54	@tomasino	so we'll see!
2020-08-16 14:28:29	lukee	Maybe Google might decide to pour money into Gemini instead LOL
2020-08-16 14:28:43	lukee	would we all run for the hills?
2020-08-16 14:29:40	lukee	Actually I reckon we're safe for now
2020-08-16 14:29:47	@tomasino	an influx of money wouldn't really have any purpose here, i wouldn't think. We don't need big teams to create competitive software and there's not an untapped market for turning it into a revenue stream
2020-08-16 14:31:39	lukee	They could fork/enhance Gemini, a sort of Google AMP/Gemini hybrid to show how there are many alternatives to WebOS
2020-08-16 14:32:15	lukee	...but actually I agree with you.
2020-08-16 14:32:37	xj9	google wouldn't understand gemini, too simple.
2020-08-16 14:33:24	lukee	They'd understand it technically, but not the point of it socio-technically
2020-08-16 14:33:44	@tomasino	they'd throw 45 engineers at it and make it require 20,000 lines of code across a massive monorepo
2020-08-16 14:34:58	lukee	and protocol headers - boo hiss!
2020-08-16 14:35:04	@tomasino	haha
2020-08-16 14:35:29		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-16 14:35:38	@tomasino	instead of delivering fixed documents they'd deliver a token that would provide a server-pushable ecosystem that could be updated at any time and changed and is always hosted on Google servers
2020-08-16 14:37:27	lukee	I think it will be interesting to see the wider uptake of gemtext. Markdown has become a defacto standard for the technical side of the web, but even markdown needs a cheat sheet and editor support for most of us
2020-08-16 14:37:42	@tomasino	and it's inconsistent
2020-08-16 14:37:45	@tomasino	all the flavors
2020-08-16 14:37:47	@tomasino	blerg
2020-08-16 14:37:54	lukee	whereas gemtext - even I can hold the whole thing in mind without a second thought
2020-08-16 14:38:07	@tomasino	yep yep
2020-08-16 14:38:24	@tomasino	htough, whoever it was that just added it to their wiki already mentioned extending it with a bunch of features that aren't part of it normally
2020-08-16 14:38:29	@tomasino	transclusion, for instance
2020-08-16 14:38:39	lukee	I like transclusion
2020-08-16 14:39:08	lukee	My website system uses it
2020-08-16 14:39:12	@tomasino	i like not having it in gemini. since gemtext is so tied to that my instant reaction is to be against it
2020-08-16 14:39:21	@tomasino	but in non-gemini contexts...
2020-08-16 14:39:29	lukee	but as long as it is server side processed, its fine I think
2020-08-16 14:39:29	@tomasino	i dunno, at what point is it not gemtext anymore?
2020-08-16 14:39:50	@tomasino	hmmm
2020-08-16 14:39:54	@tomasino	interesting distinction
2020-08-16 14:40:05	@tomasino	i find great use in it as well
2020-08-16 14:40:06	lukee	so its just a server side include
2020-08-16 14:40:13	@tomasino	server-side would be handy
2020-08-16 14:40:24	@tomasino	cause who cares. It's not part of the protocol then
2020-08-16 14:40:40	lukee	not unless people start using it
2020-08-16 14:40:42	@tomasino	whatever magic is happening back there is irrelevant as long as the gemtext gets served
2020-08-16 14:40:49	@tomasino	hmmmm
2020-08-16 14:41:23	lukee	I think there is a role for transclusion *hinting* to the client
2020-08-16 14:41:25	@tomasino	i mean, if a gemini server allowed <= lines for server-side transclusion while still serving only valid gemtext... that'd be cool
2020-08-16 14:41:37	lukee	for example
2020-08-16 14:42:00	lukee	=> gemini://url/img.png [+] optionally included image
2020-08-16 14:42:29	lukee	the user or his/her client can have a preference whether to include or leave as an interactive link
2020-08-16 14:43:01	lukee	but it is just a client nicety
2020-08-16 14:43:47	lukee	and the content author cannot expect it to be included
2020-08-16 14:44:20	xj9	I plan to do transclusion statically in my gem capsule generator. I think. I don't want to expose useless links to clients who wouldn't understand them.
2020-08-16 14:44:54	lukee	xj9: what syntax will you use to indicate it?
2020-08-16 14:47:52	lukee	there are some various unicode "plus" signs like ⊞
2020-08-16 14:47:59	lukee	https://www.alt-codes.net/plus-sign-symbols
2020-08-16 14:47:59	xj9	uncertain.
2020-08-16 15:16:14		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-16 15:18:33	companion_cube	"transclusion" == iframes?
2020-08-16 15:19:01	@tomasino	more like an include that drops the content into a single document
2020-08-16 15:19:07	@tomasino	happens server-side, not client side
2020-08-16 15:19:12	@tomasino	or should
2020-08-16 15:19:24	@tomasino	iframs would be client-side transclusion
2020-08-16 15:19:35	@tomasino	or even an inline-image is, in a sense
2020-08-16 15:36:09	easeout	so what that means is it's #include
2020-08-16 15:36:21	easeout	gemtext response, gemtext with preprocessor source for the server to render
2020-08-16 15:36:50	@tomasino	yep
2020-08-16 15:36:52	easeout	that seems fine, i just wouldn't call it an extension to gemtext
2020-08-16 15:37:03	@tomasino	well, it depends on whether it's client or server side
2020-08-16 15:37:19	@tomasino	if it's server side, you're right. It's gemtext (with a bit of extra flavor unique to htat server)
2020-08-16 15:37:28	@tomasino	if it's client-side it's an extension
2020-08-16 15:37:31	easeout	yeah.
2020-08-16 15:38:08	easeout	my ssg uses template markup with gemtext in the templates; it's no different from the server-side version
2020-08-16 15:40:11	easeout	client-side imports seem generally like a bad thing though. it throws out that guarantee that i'm only fetching one payload when i go to a gemini:// url
2020-08-16 15:40:55	@tomasino	yeah, they were discussed heavily on the ML and shut down
2020-08-16 15:41:07	easeout	good move
2020-08-16 15:41:08	@tomasino	a server-side thing, though, isn't messing with the protocol at all
2020-08-16 15:41:34	@tomasino	i'd appreciate a little server-side include on my end. I'm manually adding a footer to all my posts currently. That could be automated
2020-08-16 15:43:18	easeout	are your posts flat files or CGI? could be a simple ssg task, or php
2020-08-16 15:45:00	easeout	actually given the way gemini is line-oriented, the CGI could be a cat script
2020-08-16 15:45:13	easeout	gemtext i should asy
2020-08-16 18:13:31	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-08-16 18:34:30		Nalaph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-16 19:41:38	dkibi	wooho I finaly finished that usless labyrhint walking cgi :P
2020-08-16 19:45:32	dkibi	labyrinth
2020-08-16 19:59:16	griffin	I put together an HTTP mirror for my Gemlog 🎉 https://gmb.is
2020-08-16 20:00:15	griffin	Also tweaked a bit of the type stuff I'm playing with for gemengine
2020-08-16 20:21:37	easeout	dkibi, can i try that out someplace?
2020-08-16 20:25:19	dkibi	gemini://otrn.org/updates/2020-08-16-labyrinth2.gmi
2020-08-16 20:42:10	kevinsan	that's cool dkibi: btw "You stand in another corridor which connects to small rooms" s/contraception/contraption/ :)
2020-08-16 20:43:43	dkibi	thanks
2020-08-16 20:44:26	dkibi	:P the usual spellcheck morphs a typo into something quite odd
2020-08-16 21:12:44	@tomasino	since i recently reinstalled things on this system i had to remember how to set up gnome's workspaces in the way i prefer
2020-08-16 21:13:06	@tomasino	it never sticks in my head, so i wrote it down this time. And, since that might be of value, shared it on gemini
2020-08-16 21:16:16	kevinsan	dkibi, I have angered the Gods
2020-08-16 21:39:22	makeworld	tiwesdaeg: On fedi? I sent your No Thanks design on there, hope you don't mind
2020-08-16 21:40:00	makeworld	https://sunbeam.city/@makeworld/104701080481319763
2020-08-16 22:34:45	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-16 23:02:07	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-08-16 23:02:47		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-16 23:06:59	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-16 23:17:35	rmgr	dkibi: Good work, that's very cool!
2020-08-17 00:41:42	▬▬▶	elimisteve has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 00:54:04	▬▬▶	ComputerTech has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 01:19:29	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 01:21:00	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 01:29:44		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-17 01:31:16	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 01:31:50		mmmattyx has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-08-17 02:13:56	~tiwesdaeg	makeworld: you can use it however you want
2020-08-17 02:19:29		ComputerTech has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-08-17 05:04:39		elimisteve has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-17 06:54:18		links has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-17 06:54:41		yali has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-17 06:54:56		styan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-17 08:52:28	⚡	xq is back at kristall development
2020-08-17 08:52:31	xq	*waves*
2020-08-17 08:52:33	xq	https://mq32.de/public/3abcc6b5dae20aa8acc5c208ca74de7f6e690e2e.png
2020-08-17 08:57:06	@julienxx	hey xq
2020-08-17 09:02:30	xq	i'm trying to hack in proper emoji support
2020-08-17 09:51:33	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 10:01:48	@tomasino	:)
2020-08-17 10:01:54	@tomasino	Hi xq
2020-08-17 10:02:03	xq	heya tomasino
2020-08-17 10:02:42	@tomasino	Looks like my host for tilde black is having issues this morning
2020-08-17 10:03:33	isvarahparamahkrsnah	hello
2020-08-17 10:03:45	@tomasino	Hi
2020-08-17 10:05:54	dkibi	rmgr: thanks
2020-08-17 10:06:00	dkibi	kevinsan: did you try to cheat :P
2020-08-17 10:06:46	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 10:07:07	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 10:07:58	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 10:13:21		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-17 10:13:59	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 10:16:10	@tomasino	Love watching these Kristall issues drop
2020-08-17 10:16:24	xq	heh
2020-08-17 10:27:59		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-17 10:57:04	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 11:21:36		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: oiu oea eh oa eh aaah ih ou)
2020-08-17 12:05:31	⚡	xq wanted do github actions for windows
2020-08-17 12:05:37	xq	everything is recursivley broken
2020-08-17 13:40:02	makeworld	xq: Happy to hear it! My inbox informed me already :)
2020-08-17 13:55:05	makeworld	Not that everything's broken, that dev has started again lol
2020-08-17 13:58:01	xq	^^
2020-08-17 14:36:57	kevinsan	dkibi, um, sort of. yes then, I cheated :)
2020-08-17 14:43:56	dkibi	^^ The message is stolen from from the game Noita. I just wanted to print something amusing when the id is wrong/nonexistent
2020-08-17 15:47:18		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-17 15:59:05	CommunistWolf	a deltachat group \o/
2020-08-17 16:18:43	epoch	(sent my two cents to the mailing list about gemini+stream: vs gemini-stream: )
2020-08-17 16:23:45	epoch	just saw the gemini proxy posts, by makeworld? :)
2020-08-17 16:24:05	epoch	I have a gemini server that supports doing that.
2020-08-17 16:27:43	xj9	i was wondering, where does kristall store `about:favorites`? assuming it is a file
2020-08-17 16:43:26	makeworld	epoch: Oh yeah? What server?
2020-08-17 16:46:25	makeworld	Never heard of delta chat, it seems interesting and weird
2020-08-17 16:46:58	makeworld	How does it not intercept non-delta emails?
2020-08-17 16:47:07	makeworld	Or how do delta emails not appear in your inbox?
2020-08-17 16:47:28	makeworld	Also seems like I made a mistake using protonmail :/
2020-08-17 16:52:02	xj9	delta chat uses a whitelist to decide which threads / senders to show in your inbox
2020-08-17 17:00:14	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 17:26:30	makeworld	But then does your email client receive everything then xj9?
2020-08-17 18:21:06	xq	+dkibi: Noita is nice, i love it
2020-08-17 18:26:01	xq	tomasino: nice idea about the gemini stream thing being another URL scheme
2020-08-17 18:26:27	xq	i think it's the cleanest, most simple solution
2020-08-17 18:42:22		exprez135 has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-17 18:43:56	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 18:51:44	@tomasino	Group effort
2020-08-17 18:51:46	@tomasino	:)
2020-08-17 19:09:50	xj9	makeworld: i believe so yes
2020-08-17 19:10:03	makeworld	Oof
2020-08-17 19:10:09	makeworld	Makes chat kinda annoying then
2020-08-17 19:15:43	CommunistWolf	makeworld: I've been using delta for a year now, it's amazing :D
2020-08-17 19:16:07	makeworld	Does your regular inbox not get filled though?
2020-08-17 19:16:32	CommunistWolf	no, delta messages are moved out of it automatically
2020-08-17 19:17:05	CommunistWolf	you can also use a separate mailbox, or set up a sieve filter / .forward to put the messages somewhere directly
2020-08-17 19:17:30	CommunistWolf	or you can run a mail client that supports autoencrypt and read them in your mail client too *shrug*
2020-08-17 19:29:46		mmmattyx has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-08-17 20:00:21	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 21:04:20	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 21:05:14	acdw	hey everyone
2020-08-17 21:09:29	rb100	hi
2020-08-17 21:14:26	⚡	cyflea waves
2020-08-17 21:17:09		exprez135 has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-17 21:17:26	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 21:17:44	acdw	how's NQ2?
2020-08-17 21:22:24		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-17 22:01:13	kevinsan	Quick ref for Gemini certs and standard shell commands gemini://gemini.susa.net/gemini_prep_kit.gmi
2020-08-17 22:01:37	kevinsan	corrections, enhancements, and additions welcome
2020-08-17 22:04:16	acdw	oh this is great!
2020-08-17 22:04:33	acdw	first thing I saw: openssl s_client -connect, not --connect
2020-08-17 22:06:05	kevinsan	I think that's the norm (from man page: openssl s_client [-help] [-connect host:port])
2020-08-17 22:06:32	acdw	yeah in the article you haev it listed as --connect
2020-08-17 22:06:38	acdw	gnu-style
2020-08-17 22:07:23	acdw	oh but it's great. makes me want to do more sh-gemini hacking
2020-08-17 22:07:26	kevinsan	thanks - you're right
2020-08-17 22:09:03	acdw	sure! seriously this is inspiring me to do like a `gemutils` like `wmutils` or something
2020-08-17 22:09:37		exprez135 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-08-17 22:12:41	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 22:15:55		exprez135 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-08-17 22:17:42	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 22:19:43	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 22:28:37		acdw has quit (RecvQ exceeded)
2020-08-17 22:28:49	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 22:58:34		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-17 23:06:08		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-17 23:06:56	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 23:08:16		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-17 23:08:57	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-08-17 23:09:46	calamitous	Hey all.  Ctrl-C.club has been running a test gemini server for a few weeks now.  Everything seems stable, so we're throwing open the gates to our community to begin adding their own Geminipages.
2020-08-17 23:11:07	calamitous	It's available at gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club.  That being said, is there a good place to post than information so people can find our users as they're tooling around the... Geminiverse?  Is that the right word?
2020-08-17 23:20:21	kevinsan	calamitous, you can announce on the mailing list (or ask someone here to do it), also submit your new server to GUS to index (it will also list you in known hosts) gemini://gus.guru/
2020-08-17 23:26:09	swinslow	kevinsan, is it also okay/typical to announce on mailing list for personal servers? I set up a personal gemini server over the weekend, and wasn't sure whether to announce it on the list
2020-08-17 23:26:17	swinslow	I'm new here, not sure yet what the community norms are  :)
2020-08-17 23:29:09	kevinsan	swinslow, i think the list is low enough volume that anything sincerely created would be warmly welcomed
2020-08-17 23:29:22	swinslow	excellent, thanks!
2020-08-17 23:29:59	swinslow	(it's gemini://gemini.swinslow.net for anyone here who is interested)
2020-08-17 23:36:23	kevinsan	swinslow, look forward to chatting about Zephyr (when it's not half past bedtime for me!) - I kind of like that sort of thing
2020-08-17 23:38:37	swinslow	kevinsan, that's great, looking forward to it! I'm very new to Zephyr myself but enjoying tinkering with it. I'll be offline much of the coming week but would love to chat sometime after that.
2020-08-17 23:41:51	calamitous	kevinsan: Thanks!
2020-08-18 00:26:31	makeworld	kevinsan: Nice! The cli tools for browsing is helpful thanks, I always had trouble with that. I think you could improve your cert gen commands by using EC keys though
2020-08-18 00:26:47	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-07-06-openssl.gmi
2020-08-18 00:55:34		notsure has quit (quit: WeeChat 3.0-dev)
2020-08-18 00:55:52	▬▬▶	funkpower has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 00:56:36	ℹ 	funkpower is now known as notsure
2020-08-18 01:05:06		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-18 01:08:38	easeout	=> gemini://tilde.team/~easeout/gloggery my static glog generator has a homepage now
2020-08-18 01:16:47		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-18 02:04:29	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 02:18:22	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-08-18 02:18:56	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 02:18:56	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-08-18 02:18:56	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-08-18 02:18:56	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 84 nicks (3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 81 normals)
2020-08-18 02:18:56	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-08-18 02:19:34	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-08-18 03:52:39	easeout	where around gemini have i seen a gemtext syntax stress test page? i've been working on vim syntax highlight rules and would like to see if i've missed any spots
2020-08-18 03:53:28	easeout	oh oh must have been these. gemini://gemini.conman.org:1965/test/torture
2020-08-18 04:13:43	easeout	ok those all worked out but they were for testing gemini protocol clients more so than gemtext syntax renderers.
2020-08-18 04:20:21	easeout	i will clean this repo up soon but here you go if you want it! instructions are in the two files as comments. https://github.com/kconner/vim-syntax-gemtext
2020-08-18 08:31:32		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-18 08:38:00	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 09:16:22	kevinsan	makeworld, is there an openssl example for non-NIST curves?
2020-08-18 09:17:34	kevinsan	also, may I plagiarise your examples?
2020-08-18 09:19:09	kevinsan	easeout, vim syntax highlighting is great - thanks a bunch!
2020-08-18 09:43:17	kevinsan	easeout, I moved 'syntax region gemtextPreformatBlock ...' to the last match to avoid further matching inside the preformatted sections
2020-08-18 12:46:29		southerntofu has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-08-18 12:46:29		links has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-08-18 12:46:29		dkibi has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-08-18 12:46:29		seisatsu has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-08-18 12:46:29		vee has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-08-18 12:46:29		creme has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-08-18 12:46:29		obrut has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-08-18 12:46:29		pekka20 has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-08-18 12:46:29		gohan has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-08-18 12:46:31	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 12:46:34	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 12:46:49	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 12:47:05	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 12:47:10	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 12:47:35	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 12:48:31	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 12:48:31	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 12:49:15	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 13:31:02	easeout	sounds good kevinsan, want to send a PR or show the change another way? happy to incorporate it
2020-08-18 13:32:53	easeout	this is my first attempt at making a syntax mode in vim so help is much appreciated
2020-08-18 14:06:45	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 14:47:43	kevinsan	easeout, :15,16d then :22put :)
2020-08-18 15:01:38	acdw	morning all
2020-08-18 15:14:41	kevinsan	good late afternoon acdw
2020-08-18 15:15:05	acdw	hey kevinsan! good time
2020-08-18 15:16:22	acdw	turns out wrapping my brain around web flows is complicated :/
2020-08-18 15:17:15	kevinsan	web anything is like writing C, but where your users get to screw with the PC register. messy!
2020-08-18 15:17:38	kevinsan	what's your web stack?
2020-08-18 15:18:48	acdw	ummm nginx
2020-08-18 15:18:53	acdw	annd i just installed PHP
2020-08-18 15:19:04	acdw	so it was just static files, but I *think* i can do php now
2020-08-18 15:19:16	acdw	maybe .. I don't remember if I plugged that into nginx yet lol
2020-08-18 15:21:24	kevinsan	i see, i've never used nginx, but have done a bit with PHP on apache. i like PHP. once I accepted the quirks and inconsistencies
2020-08-18 15:22:55	@ben	apt install php-fpm
2020-08-18 15:23:12	kevinsan	if it's a learning excercise, I recommend you go down the CGI route to PHP. anything beyond that is just syntactic sugar and optimisations
2020-08-18 15:23:40	acdw	ben: did that! just have to plug it into nginx
2020-08-18 15:23:44	@ben	holler if you have any php{,-fpm} questions
2020-08-18 15:23:49	@ben	mhm
2020-08-18 15:24:03	@ben	/etc/sites-available/default has an example php-fpm config
2020-08-18 15:24:18	@ben	(i'm assuming you're on debian or a derivative)
2020-08-18 15:24:27	acdw	kevinsan: what's the diff b/w CGI and (whatever else there is?)
2020-08-18 15:24:32	acdw	ben: I am, and I will!
2020-08-18 15:25:05	acdw	oh here's a q: is it secure to refer to files outside web root? I wouldn't serve any of them, just use them to store like, pw hashes, etc
2020-08-18 15:25:36	@ben	should be, but be careful of symlinks
2020-08-18 15:26:06	acdw	okay cool. like make sure they don't link to anywhere scary or that could leak stuff?
2020-08-18 15:26:14	@ben	yeah
2020-08-18 15:26:31	@ben	as long as you have the root directive set properly it will be fine
2020-08-18 15:31:40	kevinsan	acdw, it's really just about how the PHP interpreter is launched. it doesn't make much difference, but CGI is quite self-contained - less environment to think about.
2020-08-18 15:34:10	acdw	oh cool good to know, thanks
2020-08-18 15:52:36	▬▬▶	thunk has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 16:04:46		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-18 16:23:32	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 18:06:13		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: comfy nap in comfy lounge with rain outside the windows and thunder and lightning and a fireplace and blankets and christmas music in the background)
2020-08-18 19:16:07		StygianBlues has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-08-18 19:17:43	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 20:10:09	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 20:28:57	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 20:43:01	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 20:48:20	CommunistWolf	I wonder if we could get the git protocol running over gemini for clones
2020-08-18 20:48:50	acdw	I think there was some talk about something like that on the ML
2020-08-18 20:50:22	CommunistWolf	how hard can it be? ;)
2020-08-18 20:50:31		thunk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-18 20:54:53	xj9	ooh git over gemini would be tight
2020-08-18 20:56:04	xj9	really not all that different from git over http i would imagine
2020-08-18 20:57:01	acdw	yeah i wouldn't think so
2020-08-18 20:57:02	xj9	https://www.git-scm.com/docs/gitremote-helpers
2020-08-18 20:58:14	CommunistWolf	I've implemented git over http more times than anyone could want
2020-08-18 20:58:35	acdw	ooof;
2020-08-18 20:58:36		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-18 20:58:42	CommunistWolf	it's not that bad
2020-08-18 20:59:15	CommunistWolf	since git over ssh is a thing, git over gemini isn't really a priority though, I guess
2020-08-18 21:07:16	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 21:19:19	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 21:19:35	▬▬▶	thunk has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 21:22:51		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-18 21:43:05	easeout	A little more polish on the Gemtext vim syntax mode. https://github.com/kconner/vim-syntax-gemtext
2020-08-18 21:43:32	easeout	thanks again for the assistance, kevin
2020-08-18 21:44:26	easeout	preformat blocks still aren't perfect; it can get confused about the inside vs. the outside.
2020-08-18 21:47:17	kevinsan	easeout, what preformat issues remain?
2020-08-18 21:48:43	easeout	ok so i've got a long file with a preformat block in the middle. when i open it, if i scroll down a few lines at a time, it will see the top of it first and highlight correctly. if i jump to the bottom and scroll up until i see it, it may misunderstand the beginning and end of the preformat block and color the rest of the file.
2020-08-18 21:49:52	easeout	oh i misspoke. when i jump to the bottom, the end of the preformat is visible in the buffer, and that is mistaken for the beginning at that point.
2020-08-18 21:50:23	easeout	if i actually set it up like i described where you have to scroll up to see the end, then it highlights just the one line by itself because it doesn't reevaluate the rest of the file once locating it the first time.
2020-08-18 21:51:17	easeout	maybe i should add an example file to the repo to demonstrate and act as a test.
2020-08-18 21:52:02	kevinsan	it's ok, I think i can create something similar (save polluting the repo) - though I should point out, i'm just curiously asking - i'm not a Vim expert in any way :P
2020-08-18 21:52:36	acdw	A lot of Vim filetype plugins have that issue, easeout -- it might just be a problem with Vim
2020-08-18 21:52:43	acdw	(Or you're not alone in the issue!)
2020-08-18 21:54:39	easeout	yeah it may be a worse-is-better tradeoff to get nice performance on gigantic files or some such
2020-08-18 21:56:24		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-18 22:03:12		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-18 22:14:50	easeout	i think this is the answer http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/syntax.html#:syn-sync-first
2020-08-18 22:15:18	easeout	it seems to work right, and gemtext syntax is not complicated so i imagine it won't be that expensive
2020-08-18 22:21:07	kevinsan	easeout, I found this https://medium.com/usevim/introduction-to-syntax-highlighting-43fe747426aa which suggests 'syntax sync fromstart' and 'syntax sync maxlines=500 (e.g.)
2020-08-18 22:21:21	easeout	yep that's the fix i went with!
2020-08-18 22:21:25	easeout	thank you :)
2020-08-18 22:44:20	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 22:48:16	acdw	maaan yall are wanting me to switch back to vim now.
2020-08-18 22:48:18	acdw	..
2020-08-18 22:49:07	thunk	what for? nostalgia?
2020-08-18 22:49:55	acdw	hehe yeah .. and honestly I need a good replacement for vim-surround and text objects in emacs
2020-08-18 22:50:16	acdw	withOUT using evil mode ... I want to be as emacs-y as possible (and evil effs up other modes)
2020-08-18 22:50:22	xj9	i've been enjoying acme, not quite ready to bring it with me to work though
2020-08-18 22:50:45	acdw	can that even *run* on windows? b/c that's what I've got at work
2020-08-18 22:50:57	xj9	acme-sac can run on anything that inferno runs on
2020-08-18 22:51:01	acdw	it looks so cool thogh, I had an acme colorscheme forever
2020-08-18 22:51:08	⚡	acdw looking up inferno on windows...
2020-08-18 22:51:44	thunk	what's vim-surround? Is that like expand-region?
2020-08-18 22:52:03	acdw	um, sorta kinda
2020-08-18 22:52:18	acdw	it works with surrounding delimiters, like () "" [], etc
2020-08-18 22:52:39	acdw	you can type 'cs([' e.g. and it'll change "(this)" to "[this]"
2020-08-18 22:52:55	acdw	or 'ysiw"' will do 'this' -> '"this"'
2020-08-18 22:53:09	acdw	find myself wanting to use it allll the time
2020-08-18 22:53:20	CommunistWolf	gedit > vim
2020-08-18 22:54:00	acdw	notepad.exe > gedit
2020-08-18 22:54:31	thunk	interesting, I have to be honest as much as people (emacs and vim alike) talk about power editing I always feel like I have pretty basic editing workflow
2020-08-18 22:54:39	CommunistWolf	fite me irl
2020-08-18 22:55:01	CommunistWolf	notepad++ =~ gedit, but notepad.exe fails on a number of levels
2020-08-18 22:55:26	acdw	thunk: I honestly do too, but it includes stuff like vim-surround that's just so dang useful I  miss it elsewhere
2020-08-18 22:55:42	acdw	tho I'm finding that I like the loss of mode overhead with emacs
2020-08-18 22:55:52	acdw	tho I also miss the composability of vim commands
2020-08-18 22:58:00	▬▬▶	SocialistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-08-18 23:01:42	acdw	CommunistWolf: sometimes I like writing in notepad as a sort of exercies in minimalism
2020-08-18 23:01:59		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-18 23:02:26	thunk	whenever I find myself "golfing" some editing workflow I think of Arthur Whitney, using something like 3 Notepad.exe windows
2020-08-18 23:02:51	CommunistWolf	I've genuinely been using gedit professionally for over a decade now
2020-08-18 23:02:53	login	Arthur Witney is known?
2020-08-18 23:02:54	CommunistWolf	something like 12 years
2020-08-18 23:03:01	login	CommunistWolf: nice :)
2020-08-18 23:03:02	CommunistWolf	it's just... better
2020-08-18 23:03:07	login	better than notepad?
2020-08-18 23:03:10	login	and wordpad
2020-08-18 23:03:10	CommunistWolf	much
2020-08-18 23:03:29	login	well, if only the world were efficient enough to switch to the better product
2020-08-18 23:03:34	CommunistWolf	gtk2 gedit was better, but gtk3 gedit it still very usable
2020-08-18 23:03:39	login	but there are all sorts of effects which prevent the "best product wins"
2020-08-18 23:03:41	CommunistWolf	one day
2020-08-18 23:03:52	CommunistWolf	TBH products are  the problem, not the solution
2020-08-18 23:03:54	login	one day we will switch to dvorak for laptop and desktop
2020-08-18 23:05:01	login	are services the solution?
2020-08-18 23:05:11	login	computers on rent, never able to be bought
2020-08-18 23:05:17	CommunistWolf	god no
2020-08-18 23:05:45	CommunistWolf	services are products too
2020-08-18 23:06:05	login	ah, i see
2020-08-18 23:06:24	login	since software is a public good trying to be morphed into a club good
2020-08-18 23:06:41	CommunistWolf	it's, um
2020-08-18 23:06:43	CommunistWolf	no such thing
2020-08-18 23:06:52	login	it should ideally be funded by rich patrons and released to the world for free
2020-08-18 23:06:55	login	like art
2020-08-18 23:07:13	CommunistWolf	that describes the current state of affairs to some degree for FOSS
2020-08-18 23:07:31	login	FOSS gets money from big orgs though
2020-08-18 23:07:37	CommunistWolf	right, rich patrons
2020-08-18 23:07:41	login	10 million USD per board seat
2020-08-18 23:08:05	login	then, we have khanacademy.org, some small donations, but matched by larger patrons
2020-08-18 23:08:33	login	i suppose it's better to try to make sofware excludable and rival (artificially)
2020-08-18 23:08:55	login	software may not be rival, but software support sure is
2020-08-18 23:09:10	CommunistWolf	this model just doesn't seem very robus
2020-08-18 23:09:11	CommunistWolf	...t
2020-08-18 23:09:39	login	without it, good software like nitropdf wouldn't exist
2020-08-18 23:09:44	login	or foxit phantompdf
2020-08-18 23:09:45	xj9	its not like humanity knows what its doing
2020-08-18 23:10:17	xj9	some people know what they are doing sometimesat best
2020-08-18 23:11:45	login	how does one even "know"
2020-08-18 23:12:00	CommunistWolf	same way we can know anything
2020-08-18 23:12:10	login	what the knowledgeable way of doing anything is, changes over time
2020-08-18 23:12:16	CommunistWolf	solipsists are welcome to stop engaging with their own private fantasies any time they like
2020-08-18 23:14:22	login	elon musk seems like a solipsist to me
2020-08-18 23:14:41	CommunistWolf	he's certainly pushed the simulation argument in the past
2020-08-18 23:14:47	CommunistWolf	small minds are easily impressed by big words
2020-08-19 00:02:57		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-08-19 00:04:35	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 00:30:18	easeout	re: one day we will switch to dvorak for laptop and desktop,
2020-08-19 00:30:31	easeout	i've been a dvorak typist for coming up on 20 years and i really don't see that happening
2020-08-19 00:32:49	easeout	but to your general point, "best product wins" is a popular misconceptino
2020-08-19 00:32:56	easeout	-ion
2020-08-19 00:34:41	easeout	for one thing it's rare that you can compare things in terms of better or worse overall; there are just tradeoffs involved in everything
2020-08-19 00:38:11	easeout	even if you look at a commodity, that idea of optimization is distorted. we take table salt and try to create brand loyalty with the uh, you know, the girl with the umbrella and galoshes
2020-08-19 00:39:16	easeout	anyway gedit is cool too
2020-08-19 00:39:57	easeout	i'm not really a vim user most of the time. i mainly use vim keys in vs code. but here in textworld i'm having fun with that text mode experience
2020-08-19 00:58:12	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 02:27:03	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 02:33:30		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-19 02:34:49	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 02:39:38		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: irc lagging so much. is it just me or is it the server? adios muchachos)
2020-08-19 04:02:26		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-08-19 05:52:29		alex11 has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by alex114))
2020-08-19 05:52:29	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 05:53:04	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 11:13:34	@tomasino	Hi all
2020-08-19 11:14:03	@tomasino	{vim,dvorak}++
2020-08-19 11:14:10	xfnw	hi tomasino
2020-08-19 11:14:25	@tomasino	What's new
2020-08-19 15:15:44	dkibi	heyo
2020-08-19 15:16:11	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 15:20:09	acdw	tomasino: how do you use vim + dvorak? remap any keys?
2020-08-19 15:24:09	@tomasino	No, stock vim
2020-08-19 15:24:27	acdw	oh snap
2020-08-19 15:24:41	@tomasino	I know the commands by mnemonic, not location, so it's pretty easy
2020-08-19 15:25:22	acdw	oh yeah --- and j/k are next to each other still
2020-08-19 15:25:30	acdw	the rest are pretty mnemonic I guess
2020-08-19 15:25:39	@tomasino	hjkl took a tiny bit to get used to, but I move with w/e and so on more often
2020-08-19 15:25:49	acdw	actually I bet it's good to get over using hjkl, huh?
2020-08-19 15:26:03	@tomasino	Yeah, only rarely want to move one character
2020-08-19 15:26:08	acdw	I want to try dvorak but I can't at work , maybe at home I can just do it
2020-08-19 15:26:16	acdw	do you have a dvorak keyboard?
2020-08-19 15:26:31	@tomasino	Nope, just set the system keyboard
2020-08-19 15:27:20	@tomasino	Why can't you at work? Seems like something a service desk ticket could handle for you quick if you don't have access
2020-08-19 15:28:18	@tomasino	I'm not sure you'd want to switch at work to start, though. Not until you got your speed back up
2020-08-19 15:28:50	acdw	heh yeah. I don't want to ask IT for help because then they might see the other stuff I did to my computer that wasn't totally above board
2020-08-19 15:28:57	acdw	(really just portableapps, nothing bad)
2020-08-19 15:29:39	acdw	did you have the picture of the keys on the screen at first?
2020-08-19 15:32:36	@tomasino	No, I transitioned when I was in religious life and wasn't using a computer much
2020-08-19 15:32:49	@tomasino	I did some drills and slow practice
2020-08-19 15:32:58	@tomasino	Are you in windows?
2020-08-19 15:33:03	@tomasino	At work?
2020-08-19 15:33:17	acdw	yep
2020-08-19 15:33:37	@tomasino	DVassist is a freeware portable app that'll toggle to Dvorak for you without admin
2020-08-19 15:33:46	acdw	OH YES
2020-08-19 15:33:49	acdw	thanks:)
2020-08-19 15:33:53	@tomasino	:)
2020-08-19 15:34:14	@tomasino	I keep a copy in Dropbox in case I ever end up on a windows machine
2020-08-19 15:34:55	acdw	lol I know the feeling
2020-08-19 15:35:11	@tomasino	https://www.dropbox.com/s/hmma8vzl86e8ba5/DVAssist.exe?dl=0
2020-08-19 15:35:16	acdw	that's a pretty great idea actually! I just search for 'x portable app'
2020-08-19 15:35:18	@tomasino	There may be a newer version
2020-08-19 15:35:43	acdw	oh lol
2020-08-19 15:35:51	acdw	http://clabs.org/blog/DvAssist
2020-08-19 15:36:23	@tomasino	There u go
2020-08-19 15:36:35	@tomasino	The latest version is best. Screw stable
2020-08-19 15:36:52	acdw	haha yes
2020-08-19 15:37:00	acdw	the newest versino is from 2007 tho
2020-08-19 15:37:11	acdw	so honestly your version might be latest
2020-08-19 15:37:50	@tomasino	Probably is the same one
2020-08-19 15:38:06	@tomasino	It's been quite a while since I last windows'd
2020-08-19 15:38:32	acdw	well i'mma try yours since the one i downloaded didn't work
2020-08-19 15:38:54	acdw	also lucky you!
2020-08-19 15:40:32	acdw	,.nn cy ,rpt.e
2020-08-19 15:40:46	@tomasino	It works!
2020-08-19 15:40:49	acdw	abe c erb-y dak. yd. ydcbi gl or c erb-y tbr, ,day c-m ercbi
2020-08-19 15:40:51	acdw	rd br
2020-08-19 15:40:57	acdw	https://uncyclopedia.ca/wiki/Ekrpat
2020-08-19 15:41:10	@tomasino	Double click the task tray icon to toggle on/off
2020-08-19 15:41:23	@tomasino	If the D is showing it's in Dvorak
2020-08-19 15:42:16	acdw	rd br, cy-o irb.
2020-08-19 15:42:29	@tomasino	This is great
2020-08-19 15:43:18	acdw	oh i'm getting it now
2020-08-19 15:44:01	acdw	the icon went away
2020-08-19 15:46:02	acdw	i'm glad at least you're having fun
2020-08-19 15:46:09	acdw	:)
2020-08-19 15:46:34	acdw	okay i'm bacck to qwerty
2020-08-19 15:46:39	acdw	that was fun while it lasted
2020-08-19 15:48:17	@tomasino	😃
2020-08-19 15:52:14	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 16:00:06		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-19 16:07:21	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 16:16:49		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-19 17:01:37		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: can i get an ooyeea)
2020-08-19 17:13:07	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 17:18:50		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: what does marsselus wallace look like?)
2020-08-19 17:34:16	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 17:34:20	idf	hello
2020-08-19 18:15:10	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 18:17:27	xfnw	hi idf and wingy
2020-08-19 18:29:01	wingy	Hi
2020-08-19 18:38:33		mmmattyx has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-08-19 18:46:08	▬▬▶	benulo has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 19:20:12	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 19:48:44		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-19 20:26:19		benulo has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-19 20:56:49	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 20:57:50	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 21:22:08		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-19 22:01:16		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-19 22:09:19	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-19 22:50:38	easeout	my exp with dvorak in vim is like tomasino's. keeping the default keys translates to other apps like less, and hjkl are the only odd thing, and you get used to it fast.
2020-08-19 22:50:56	easeout	translates your skill i mean
2020-08-19 22:51:14	easeout	whew the mailing list blew up
2020-08-19 22:52:42	acdw	oh I've been checking it a ton then ... i was really excited to read more great ml content
2020-08-19 22:52:53	acdw	i think i'm going to try dvorak at home for a bit
2020-08-19 22:53:41	easeout	as a long time user i recommend it to anyone who is going type english frequently
2020-08-19 22:54:52	acdw	I do that! English is about all I type! :)
2020-08-19 22:55:17	easeout	=> gemini://tilde.team:1965/~easeout/glog/2020-08-13-re-keyboard-thonks.gmi i wrote about it
2020-08-19 22:56:28	acdw	oh yeah, I read that! it was nice
2020-08-19 22:57:08	easeout	thanks, let me know if i can answer questions or anything!
2020-08-19 22:59:35	acdw	:D I will! Was hoping there was a #dvorak on here, don't seem that way
2020-08-19 22:59:42	acdw	well there is now
2020-08-19 23:00:06		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-19 23:41:25		erin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-20 00:34:59	▬▬▶	benulo has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 03:59:17		alex11 has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-20 05:23:35	▬▬▶	tricon has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 05:23:35		tricon has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-20 05:24:39		benulo has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-20 05:26:05	▬▬▶	tricon has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 05:26:05		tricon has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-20 06:05:33	ℹ 	alex1138 is now known as alex11
2020-08-20 09:55:34	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 10:31:04	login	hi idf
2020-08-20 11:02:28	idf	hello
2020-08-20 12:32:22	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 13:24:38		xj9 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-20 13:24:48		dokuja has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-20 13:26:12	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 13:50:55		dokuja has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-20 14:12:48	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 14:45:36	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 14:46:25		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-20 14:51:50		alex11 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-20 14:52:52	jns	hmm darn it seems the Kristall client has some issues with ipv6 - it also breaks completely when a connection fails, all subsequent connections fail ..
2020-08-20 15:03:25	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 15:05:26	▬▬▶	benulo has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 15:14:00		benulo has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-20 15:25:58		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-20 15:28:20	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 16:17:07	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 16:32:41	thunk	lots of RSS/Atom feeds on gemini capsules, what are people using to read those feeds they follow?
2020-08-20 16:35:40	acdw	capcom/spacewalk
2020-08-20 16:35:58	acdw	still need to setup my own spacewalk ... would really like one that pulls servers off the GUS known servers list
2020-08-20 16:36:22	acdw	I'd call it "Firehose" ... or "Solar wind"
2020-08-20 16:39:25	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 16:41:46	awalvie	hey! I recently heard about the gemini protocol and was thinking about writing a simple server for it in C
2020-08-20 16:42:01	acdw	awalvie: do it! Sounsd awesome
2020-08-20 16:42:39	acdw	I know someone else was trying for one in the ML : https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/002445.html
2020-08-20 16:44:11	awalvie	I'm in a similar boat as well
2020-08-20 16:45:00	awalvie	as in I don't have any prior experience when it comes to writing servers
2020-08-20 16:47:03	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 16:51:22	acdw	haha I know the feeling
2020-08-20 16:51:44	acdw	I didn't have any experience with clients or the internet when I started bollux. The great thing about gemini is its simplicity
2020-08-20 16:52:11	acdw	basically you need to setup a persistent process that listens on port 1965 for incoming TLS connections
2020-08-20 16:52:17	acdw	then respond to them
2020-08-20 16:52:55	acdw	check out gemini://tomasino.org/ for a really simple server in bash
2020-08-20 16:53:15	acdw	I think the rest is figuring out how to map requests to files or whatever
2020-08-20 16:56:36	idf	yeah i didnt really have any experience except basic socket connection and basic file serving for another project, but gemini makes it really easy and comfy
2020-08-20 16:57:09	idf	also nim has a bunch of helpful syslibs including sockets with ssl/tls so there's that :P
2020-08-20 16:57:48	idf	my main concern is not being able to just "../../../" your way into the /usr/bin
2020-08-20 17:00:59	acdw	^ this is important
2020-08-20 17:01:08	acdw	idk what good tls libs there are for c
2020-08-20 17:01:32	companion_cube	openssl? 😂
2020-08-20 17:03:35	acdw	haha I guess so!
2020-08-20 17:04:21	CommunistWolf	I bumped into wolfssl recently
2020-08-20 17:04:34	CommunistWolf	it might fit the gemini ethos quite well, but I mostly like it for the name
2020-08-20 17:04:53	acdw	lol --- I think there's also bearssl? maybe?
2020-08-20 17:04:58	CommunistWolf	wolf > bear
2020-08-20 17:05:04	CommunistWolf	...wait
2020-08-20 17:05:08	CommunistWolf	is this a sex thing now?
2020-08-20 17:05:24	idf	im currently using some syslib functions that are meant to parse paths in more of a general context, they work for now but i feel they parse too much(after all all i need is to turn pub/urstuff/ into /stuff/ and this function does a bit more stuff in specific cases im afraid of) so i'm in a process of rewriting and retesting all that
2020-08-20 17:05:31	idf	after this i dont think i'll add anything else
2020-08-20 17:06:06	idf	i dont want it to become too big, and i already got CGI to do the extras
2020-08-20 17:06:16	acdw	lol CommunistWolf i don't *think* it is 😆
2020-08-20 17:06:20	CommunistWolf	phew
2020-08-20 17:13:37		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-20 17:20:26	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 17:29:12		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: prayer time bismillahi rahmani rahim)
2020-08-20 17:56:47		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-20 19:48:44	kevinsan	jns, I just tested Kristall with various connections to IPv4 & IPv6 addresses, some good, some failing, some no DNS, even some with no IPv6 enabled, can't reproduce what you describe...
2020-08-20 19:56:06	jns	here's a video of it:  http://www.linkerror.com/stuff/broken.webm
2020-08-20 19:56:47	jns	does the same with gemini and gopher
2020-08-20 19:58:59	jns	it looks like the socket gets in a bad state and doesn't properly get re-opened
2020-08-20 20:05:20	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 20:06:32		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-20 20:12:35	@tomasino	That's a satisfying clacky you've got
2020-08-20 20:12:41	@tomasino	And a tricky error
2020-08-20 20:13:37	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 20:15:42	jns	buckling spring goodness! :)
2020-08-20 20:26:36	jns	fwiw i think i figured out the root cause
2020-08-20 20:26:54	jns	my work vpn adds some nasty iptables6 firewall rules causing ipv6 packets to get dropped
2020-08-20 20:27:15	jns	so i think you should be able to reproduce with a simple drop firewall rule
2020-08-20 20:27:53	kevinsan	there is still a client issue though - anything that causes a connection to hang indefinitely will break future connections
2020-08-20 20:27:53	jns	this state might be specific to timeouts
2020-08-20 20:28:11	jns	yeah i know
2020-08-20 20:28:14	kevinsan	i think one solution might be with setting the connect timeout in qnetworkconfiguration
2020-08-20 20:29:14	kevinsan	though i say that naively (never written any qt stuff)
2020-08-20 20:29:18	jns	yeah that and/or keepalive probes to detect a dropped connection
2020-08-20 20:31:17	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 20:47:33		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-20 20:56:06		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-20 20:59:31	kevinsan	jns, this patch seems to fix it for gemini gemini://gemini.susa.net/c/gopherclient.cpp.patch
2020-08-20 20:59:52	kevinsan	sorry, for gopher - i haven't added it to geminiclient.cpp
2020-08-20 21:00:33	jns	oh sweet, thanks, i can apply that in both on my end
2020-08-20 21:04:31	kevinsan	xq, there's some chat relating to an issue with Kristall, with a video showing the issue and a (possibly hacky) patch to fix it.
2020-08-20 21:04:47	xq	huh?
2020-08-20 21:04:54	xq	where?
2020-08-20 21:05:11	jns	here, scroll up  :)
2020-08-20 21:05:12	kevinsan	the conversation between jns and me just above ^^
2020-08-20 21:05:34	xq	ah! :D
2020-08-20 21:06:44	xq	ah yeah that bug
2020-08-20 21:06:49	xq	i have to find out how to repro it
2020-08-20 21:06:53	kevinsan	essentially, where a connect waits indefinitely (or Qt's timeout), the app returns but the socket is still trying to connect
2020-08-20 21:06:54	xq	never got it reproduces
2020-08-20 21:07:04	xq	oh, that may help, thanks :)
2020-08-20 21:07:08	xq	can you issue that on github?
2020-08-20 21:07:10	jns	a firewall rule that drops traffic seems to do the trick to repro
2020-08-20 21:07:53	jns	(drop, not reject)
2020-08-20 21:08:05	kevinsan	it's enough to use the cirumlunar address that you used - port 70 is not responding
2020-08-20 21:09:13	kevinsan	xq, the patch in the link above is about as much as i'd be able to offer in github
2020-08-20 21:09:55	xq	ah, hmm
2020-08-20 21:14:03	xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/issues/48
2020-08-20 21:14:05	xq	made a issue
2020-08-20 21:19:40	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 21:32:09		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-20 21:59:01		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-20 22:03:33	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-20 22:59:15		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-20 23:06:00	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 03:03:25	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 03:03:31	rmgr	I'm getting a certificate error trying to access tannelorn.city, does anybody know what's going on with their cert?
2020-08-21 03:03:54	rmgr	Well not an error, a security warning because the certificate changed.
2020-08-21 03:17:52	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 03:28:01	easeout	rmgr, which client are you using?
2020-08-21 03:28:09	login	rmgr: which certificate is being served?
2020-08-21 03:43:00	epoch	there's a gmi2html already, right?
2020-08-21 03:43:42	epoch	I'm probably going to write pages common to both my gemini site and my http site in text/gemini then auto-convert to html for http requests
2020-08-21 03:44:01	epoch	unless people have a "gmi viewer" that they might want their browser to use
2020-08-21 03:44:03	easeout	if you're in bombadillo, the "purge *" command will clear the TOFU cert cache rmgr. i reproed your error on tanelorn.city and that cleared it.
2020-08-21 03:44:28	easeout	i think there are a few of those, epoch
2020-08-21 03:44:37	easeout	i don't know if they are separated tools though
2020-08-21 03:44:54	easeout	or just several people's random shell scripts or part of their custom site generator or what
2020-08-21 03:45:28	easeout	hell, a markdown processor is almost that, with the exception of link syntax
2020-08-21 03:46:27	epoch	I have my own script that converts text/gemini to terminal
2020-08-21 03:47:00	epoch	I'll probably make a gmi2html script for myself anyway.
2020-08-21 03:48:05	epoch	dunno if I'll use it client-side or server-side or both
2020-08-21 03:50:38	epoch	maybe I could change my Accept header to let my server know if I want a text/gemini response, or I want it to convert it for me.
2020-08-21 03:52:21		alex1138 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-21 04:03:43	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 04:08:20	rmgr	easout: I'm using av98, it does give the option to accept the new cert, I just figured I'd raise it
2020-08-21 04:42:52	epoch	alright, have one page so far written in text/gemini that is being served from both my gemini site and my http site
2020-08-21 04:43:41	epoch	probably going to move most of my pages to /~epoch/
2020-08-21 04:46:23	epoch	since I'll be serving it over multiple protocols, what dir would be a good place?
2020-08-21 04:46:36	epoch	~/.local/var/blog ?
2020-08-21 04:47:06	epoch	~/.local/srv/blog
2020-08-21 04:47:17	djph	~/blog ?
2020-08-21 04:47:44	epoch	too simple. :P
2020-08-21 04:47:50	epoch	that's probably what I'll use though
2020-08-21 04:47:55	djph	simple is good
2020-08-21 04:47:56	djph	:P
2020-08-21 04:48:00	epoch	until I come up with a good enough reason to no do it that way.
2020-08-21 04:48:05	djph	haha
2020-08-21 04:48:16	epoch	looks like I already have a ~/blog
2020-08-21 04:48:38		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-21 04:48:43	djph	all the better :)
2020-08-21 04:50:04	epoch	now to convert a bunch of this html into text/gemini
2020-08-21 04:59:12	epoch	what about fragment ID links inside text/gemini?
2020-08-21 04:59:54	epoch	there'd need to be some way to say "this portion is a fragment" I guess
2020-08-21 05:01:02	epoch	which doesn't really have a good way of doing it... maybe a fragment-only link indicates where a fragment ID would point at?
2020-08-21 05:01:04	epoch	heh.
2020-08-21 05:01:29	epoch	=> #a-link-to-this-place-in-this-text/gemini
2020-08-21 05:02:09	epoch	mmm. nah.
2020-08-21 05:02:27	epoch	you could end up with "to top" links at the bottom, but not to bottom links at the top.
2020-08-21 05:03:36	epoch	the gemini-way would probably be to just make multiple little documents if you wanted a table of contents made of links
2020-08-21 05:06:59	epoch	https://compilers.iecc.com/crenshaw/
2020-08-21 05:07:07	epoch	someone in another channel linked to this.
2020-08-21 05:21:55	epoch	what would be a good way to make gemini bullet-points turned into html?
2020-08-21 05:22:25	epoch	have the first bullet-point toggle-on <ul> like ``` does for <pre>
2020-08-21 05:22:32	epoch	and first non-bullet-point closes it?
2020-08-21 05:22:40	epoch	that's probably what I'll do
2020-08-21 05:27:17		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-21 05:29:37	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 05:54:23	epoch	um, it is probably discussed somewhere, but what am I supposed to do with gemini lines that appear inside a ``` block?
2020-08-21 05:54:48	epoch	castor strips formatting characters except for links
2020-08-21 05:56:29	epoch	https://thebackupbox.net/~epoch/blog/test.gmi to see what my gemini2html does, gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/~epoch/blog/test.gmi to see what it looks like over gemini
2020-08-21 06:09:45		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-21 07:00:45	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 07:26:52	lukee	epoch: to convert html to gmi you could try https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi
2020-08-21 07:31:25	lukee	it is a standalone utility in Go which works cross-platform
2020-08-21 08:06:24	▬▬▶	moody has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 08:06:40	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 08:07:24	▬▬▶	moody_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 08:08:16		moody_ has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-21 08:08:16		moody has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-21 08:08:42	▬▬▶	moody has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 08:09:08	moody	hello
2020-08-21 08:19:37	lukee	hi there
2020-08-21 08:21:10	kevinsan	epoch, what I did with /^```/ blocks was to output <pre>, then just read everything up to the following /^```/ outputting directly.
2020-08-21 08:21:51	kevinsan	hi lukee, how goes?
2020-08-21 08:22:14	kevinsan	hi moody, what are you working on?
2020-08-21 08:22:22	lukee	hi kevinsan
2020-08-21 08:23:27	lukee	I'm actively experimenting in this html <-> gemini conversion space
2020-08-21 08:23:56	lukee	my latest experiments are to bring back inline links to text/gemini
2020-08-21 08:24:05	lukee	without extending the standard
2020-08-21 08:24:31	kevinsan	what's your approach?
2020-08-21 08:25:22	lukee	well, a common convention is that people make footnote style references to numbered links like this [1] and provide the link in the following paragraph
2020-08-21 08:25:44	lukee	=> gemini://example.com/path [1] a link
2020-08-21 08:26:12	lukee	So, one approach is to wire up the citation with the live link, and remove the footnote
2020-08-21 08:26:37	lukee	or perhaps collapse/hide the footnote link
2020-08-21 08:27:14	lukee	so in the above example, the [1] within the paragraph would be an active clickable link
2020-08-21 08:27:50	lukee	I think its a nice approach as it is backwards compatible, and it builds on an existing practice
2020-08-21 08:27:51	kevinsan	that's neat -
2020-08-21 08:29:26	lukee	see here, an example page. Towards the bottom there are some blue citations in superscript
2020-08-21 08:29:28	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/Aw772vj
2020-08-21 08:29:50	kevinsan	it's sort of a 'client nicety' that encourages better flow in narrative (like a book!)
2020-08-21 08:30:01	lukee	yes.
2020-08-21 08:30:20	lukee	Also it means you can convert "normal" html to gmi much more idiomatically
2020-08-21 08:30:41	lukee	otherwise you are continually jumping backwards and forwards from the paragraph to the link list
2020-08-21 08:33:38	lukee	the link density in a typical html page is usually higher than text/gemini
2020-08-21 08:36:09	moody	kevinsan: I have been working on a 9front gemini server recently
2020-08-21 08:36:57	lukee	so it is possible to plug an html to gmi converter into your client logic and go forth and read a majority of web pages using a gemini client
2020-08-21 08:37:47	lukee	obviously it is limited, but the majority of pages dont actually need deeper interactivity beyond reading and links
2020-08-21 08:38:42	lukee	and all of a sudden we have a new set of clients ready to "simplify the web" back to what we want it to be
2020-08-21 08:39:08	kevinsan	aha, moody, i saw your announcement on that. it's a cool thing!
2020-08-21 08:39:13	lukee	that's the theory, practice is... getting there...
2020-08-21 08:39:58	kevinsan	lukee, that's only part of the battle - as I see it, the biggest web difficulty is discovery
2020-08-21 08:40:09	lukee	what, search?
2020-08-21 08:40:39	moody	Ill be honest at first I wasn't sure what the use was for client certificates but seeing some of the uses has really made them make sense
2020-08-21 08:40:53	lukee	or content curation and things like RSS?
2020-08-21 08:43:14	kevinsan	lukee, i really don't know. search is hard and the surface is huge. curation is hard in a constantly evolving environment. people publish stuff in ultimately hostile environments (e.g Medium(
2020-08-21 08:44:34	moody	perhaps scan aggregators could help with finding sites, checking shodan for the right port and doing reverse DNS
2020-08-21 08:45:10	moody	although that feels a bit 'forced'
2020-08-21 08:45:15	lukee	yeah search is a big man's game
2020-08-21 08:45:33	kevinsan	something like that moody, I run an https server on port 1993, but relying on shodan for discovery is fragile
2020-08-21 08:45:39	lukee	(well, web search anyway) GUS is great, but gemini is a small universe at present
2020-08-21 08:46:03	kevinsan	i see Gemini as a possible solution. it can provide the seeds into the web content that's worth knowing about.
2020-08-21 08:46:50	lukee	exactly - and in general the things gemini authors will link to will be mostly "sane" content, not pointers into walled gardens
2020-08-21 08:47:42	kevinsan	i've just created a page called web_worth_preserving.gmi - it will simply list links to stuff that I think is, um, worth knowing about.
2020-08-21 08:47:48	lukee	so I see it as there being an outer periphery of resources linked from gemini that should be generally accessible
2020-08-21 08:48:10	lukee	so, how long is that page ;)
2020-08-21 08:48:18	kevinsan	it has one link :D
2020-08-21 08:48:22	lukee	lol
2020-08-21 08:48:22	moody	is .gmi the common file extension?
2020-08-21 08:48:38	lukee	moody: it seems to be the most common one used
2020-08-21 08:48:49	moody	good to know, thanks
2020-08-21 08:49:06	moody	I have been using .gem
2020-08-21 08:49:52	lukee	it doesnt really matter, as long as your server serves the content as text/gemini, all the clients will know
2020-08-21 08:51:31	lukee	Personally I think the biggest threat to the diversity of clients everyone seems to be talking about post-mozilla-problems is the increasing reliance on client side scripting
2020-08-21 08:52:04	moody	the recent mozilla news is not very comforting
2020-08-21 08:52:06	lukee	obviously the big players have an intrinsic incentive to completely control the client experience
2020-08-21 08:52:32	lukee	and make the whole UI flashy and attention grabbing
2020-08-21 08:53:08	lukee	but if this is what the web ultimately becomes, there is very little room for more than one client runtime
2020-08-21 08:53:55	kevinsan	exactly - standards so expansive that no entity can afford to implement them, and without which none of the sites work.
2020-08-21 08:54:12	lukee	yes
2020-08-21 08:54:36	moody	it feels like things are on the brink of crumbling under their own weight
2020-08-21 08:54:46	kevinsan	so it's capture of the Internet, because to the overwhelming majority people, the Internet is 5 or 10 web sites.
2020-08-21 08:55:01	kevinsan	moody, it's not crumbling at all, it's capture.
2020-08-21 08:55:41	lukee	I'm fine if those 5 to 10 sites require Chrome. But if the rest of the web moves that way inextricably it is a slow but inevitable decline
2020-08-21 08:55:42	kevinsan	the web tech is more consistent, more functional, and more stable than it has ever been.
2020-08-21 08:57:19	lukee	which is why we need to get User-Agent: MyGeminiClient into webserver logs as the first wave of pushback
2020-08-21 08:57:40	⚡	lukee punches fist in the air
2020-08-21 08:59:39	lukee	I suddenly recall the name of Solderpunk's weblog
2020-08-21 08:59:42	kevinsan	ha, i don't see any point pushing back. like the communities who got broken up when a flyover was built on their neighbourhood, we just get on with it and do what we do
2020-08-21 08:59:51	lukee	Tilting at windmills
2020-08-21 08:59:59	moody	kevinsan: yeah you're right
2020-08-21 09:00:37	moody	it'd be hard to crumble with how much money is being poured in
2020-08-21 09:00:43	lukee	maybe push back is wrong, we dont have the force for it
2020-08-21 09:01:42	lukee	but we dont want an internet where 9.999% of the resources are only accessible through Chrome
2020-08-21 09:01:58	lukee	we can't completely opt out
2020-08-21 09:02:38	lukee	9.999 -> 99.999
2020-08-21 09:03:12	moody	I think that will happen regardless of anything that could be done
2020-08-21 09:03:44	kevinsan	we can create stuff on Gemini that's interesting to people like us. we all have varied interests and opinions, yet clearly share some core values.
2020-08-21 09:04:25	kevinsan	that, in turn, will make Gemini interesting to people 'quite like us', particularly those with a bent for writing and expressing themselves
2020-08-21 09:04:36	moody	the web underground
2020-08-21 09:05:04	lukee	MolesRUs
2020-08-21 09:05:12	kevinsan	pretty much what tildeverse, irc resurgence, gopher-stubbornness, etc. is all about
2020-08-21 09:05:45	lukee	gopher-stubbornness: that is definitely a thing
2020-08-21 09:06:42	kevinsan	it's just the regrouping of above-average intelligence people around tech that's separate from the masses
2020-08-21 09:09:37	moody	I will say putting content up in the gemini world has been a really fun time
2020-08-21 09:10:51	kevinsan	moody, me too - it's as simple as editing a text file.
2020-08-21 09:11:10	kevinsan	even the most basic html is tedious by comparison
2020-08-21 09:11:43	moody	it really is a sea of difference, the tedium really adds up
2020-08-21 09:12:32	moody	I think there will be a good influx from the plan9 crowd before too long
2020-08-21 09:12:58	lukee	plan9 crowd - sounds like an oxymoron!
2020-08-21 09:13:11	moody	haha
2020-08-21 09:13:14	lukee	but seriously, will be nice to have more people in the tent
2020-08-21 09:13:33	moody	there are dozens of us!
2020-08-21 09:13:42	lukee	haha
2020-08-21 09:14:37	lukee	it seems to be a very specific kind of mindset. I like the idea of plan 9, but I never found a use case for it
2020-08-21 09:15:09	kevinsan	lol, though honestly dozens of plan9 users is worth more than a million Trump shills to me
2020-08-21 09:15:11	lukee	and my mouse only has two buttons
2020-08-21 09:15:21	moody	the best use case of plan9 is writing code for plan9 to be honest
2020-08-21 09:15:31	moody	so its a bit of a catch 22
2020-08-21 09:15:35	lukee	so, quite like gemini then?
2020-08-21 09:15:55	kevinsan	the best use-case for my first computers were writing code for my first computers.
2020-08-21 09:16:51	moody	I will say, if plain text is your thing then plan9 has it in spades
2020-08-21 09:17:05	lukee	yeah, sometimes you just want to know if something is possible
2020-08-21 09:17:54	moody	the mouse part is a bit of a obsticle, I finally caved and bought a proper 3 button mouse
2020-08-21 09:17:55	kevinsan	yes, i'm having something of a reawakening to the power of plain text and general tooling.
2020-08-21 09:17:55	lukee	plain text is nice, but I never really thought it is the best way to integrate software
2020-08-21 09:18:18	lukee	you have to render and parse at each interface
2020-08-21 09:18:42	lukee	which is always error prone and esoteric
2020-08-21 09:19:22	moody	I would argue you have parsing issues whenever two programs are hooked up over a pipe
2020-08-21 09:19:41	moody	but I do agree tha text can be a bit of a special kind of a pain depending on the complexity
2020-08-21 09:20:04	lukee	yeah, but at least if you have xml or json, you mainly have to think about semantics not syntax
2020-08-21 09:20:08	kevinsan	CSV and JSON are plain text, and still allow grepping and cutting etc. i count them as plain text, anyway, even though they have structure.
2020-08-21 09:20:34	lukee	plain text is the implementation, but not the structure
2020-08-21 09:20:52	lukee	if all unix utilities had a --json flag, it would be great
2020-08-21 09:23:37	moody	I would like an awk that was designed for json
2020-08-21 09:25:41	moody	I will say in practice plan9 goes for more end poins then it does for more complex grammer
2020-08-21 09:26:16	dkibi	morning
2020-08-21 09:26:37	moody	morning
2020-08-21 09:44:43		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-21 10:53:28		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-21 11:02:43	@tomasino	plain text ftw
2020-08-21 11:24:17	dkibi	oui
2020-08-21 11:46:16	alex1138	:sistinechapelemoji:
2020-08-21 11:47:45	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 12:34:58		moody has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-21 13:33:15	awalvie	as I said yesterday, I've been thinking about building a C server for Gemini
2020-08-21 13:33:34	awalvie	but have no prior experience when it comes to network programming when it comes to C.
2020-08-21 13:33:49	awalvie	can someone suggest resources that I can use to get started?
2020-08-21 13:34:13	companion_cube	I have no idea except: "look at redis' code and libraries"
2020-08-21 13:36:44	thunk	this might get you started with network APIs and give you enough material for more specific questions: https://beej.us/guide/bgnet/
2020-08-21 13:38:40	companion_cube	(my personal approach would be "use anything but C", but your move)
2020-08-21 13:40:29	awalvie	oh, is C not a good idea?
2020-08-21 13:41:49	thunk	if you already know C or want to learn more about it, it should be fine
2020-08-21 13:43:17	companion_cube	well just don't deploy it in production or anything :D
2020-08-21 13:43:31	companion_cube	awalvie: it's a potential security issue, is all
2020-08-21 13:43:34	awalvie	ahh, sorry guys, too newb to get the joke :(
2020-08-21 13:43:48	awalvie	ohh, what kind?
2020-08-21 13:44:19	companion_cube	well, look for "buffer overflow"s
2020-08-21 13:44:35	companion_cube	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbleed <-- stuff like that
2020-08-21 13:44:59	companion_cube	https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-70-percent-of-all-security-bugs-are-memory-safety-issues/
2020-08-21 13:45:19	companion_cube	still worth learning C, of course.
2020-08-21 13:45:27	companion_cube	but you need to be aware of this kind of things
2020-08-21 13:45:39	awalvie	roger that, thanks for the heads up
2020-08-21 13:46:26		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-21 13:46:39	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 13:47:30		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-21 14:48:39		thunk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-21 14:57:49	▬▬▶	thunk has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 15:10:14	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 15:13:43	CommunistWolf	there is someone on the ML working on a C rust server
2020-08-21 15:13:47	CommunistWolf	erm, C gemini server
2020-08-21 15:13:56	CommunistWolf	clearly I'd sooner be working on a rust one ;)
2020-08-21 15:14:25	acdw	rust://rustup.rs
2020-08-21 15:14:37	dkibi	iirc there are more than one gemini rust server
2020-08-21 15:15:15	dkibi	there are multiple reasons why one might want to do a C server, but one should be aware that one is in for some ride
2020-08-21 15:15:39	acdw	i still want to work on a bash or awk server, only tricky thing is the TLS
2020-08-21 15:17:08	▬▬▶	moody has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 15:18:35	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 15:24:33	acdw	maybe an awk gopher server first...hm
2020-08-21 15:24:39	jns	xq: https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/pull/49
2020-08-21 15:31:33	makeworld	The ESP32 stuff looks super cool
2020-08-21 15:40:29	kevinsan	acdw, i was going to do something in awk - just use s_client or gnutls-cli to fetch the page.
2020-08-21 15:42:56	acdw	oh that's great! then it'd be pluggable, use whatever TLS command you like. Would it be as easy for a server you think?
2020-08-21 15:43:11	acdw	I figure I'd need to use gawk's pipes and stuff
2020-08-21 15:43:19	acdw	or does POSIX awk have pipes?
2020-08-21 15:44:09	dkibi	I have one of those esp32 based gameboy-like devices would be fun to browse gemini there (but not very practical)
2020-08-21 15:48:29	epoch	acdw: I figured out some of the tricky part with the TLS for a gemini server
2020-08-21 15:49:00	acdw	with awk? would love to see it!
2020-08-21 15:49:10	epoch	if you want SNI support, you gotta use stunnel to launch the awk script
2020-08-21 15:50:41	epoch	https://thebackupbox.net/~epoch/blog/stunnel.html
2020-08-21 15:50:53	acdw	ah yes that's perfect
2020-08-21 15:51:36	epoch	though some of the metadata you might want to use for CGIs doesn't get put into the environment by stunnel
2020-08-21 15:52:17	acdw	dang. well i can cross that bridge later, I honestly don't even know how CGI works lol
2020-08-21 15:53:45	acdw	I couldn't do openssl s_server -serverinfo <file> ?
2020-08-21 15:55:45		awalvie has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-21 15:55:50	epoch	you could use a lot of things if you don't care to do SNI
2020-08-21 15:56:05	acdw	mmmmm good to know
2020-08-21 15:56:14	acdw	SNI is spec tho, so
2020-08-21 15:56:20	epoch	I used socat or ncat --ssl for a while
2020-08-21 15:56:20	acdw	right? I think it is
2020-08-21 15:56:38	epoch	yeah, but does it break stuff if you don't use it? :P
2020-08-21 15:57:40	epoch	for the missing env vars that would be handy for CGIs I've been editing stunnel.
2020-08-21 15:58:26	acdw	hm true true
2020-08-21 15:59:00	acdw	actually epoch: when I was doing bollux some stuff broke b/c I wasn't using SNI -- if a server is serving 2 domains for example
2020-08-21 16:01:54	moody	interesting, had no idea that socat had --ssl
2020-08-21 16:02:22	moody	I really miss that old inetd UNIX system
2020-08-21 16:05:56	epoch	ncat has --ssl, socat uses non-unixy syntax so has tls-server: I think
2020-08-21 16:06:10	moody	ah gotcha
2020-08-21 16:06:23	epoch	socat openssl-listen:443,pf=ip6,ipv6only=1,certificate=/etc/letsencrypt/https.crt,key=/etc/letsencrypt/keys/https.key.pem,verify=0,fork,reuseaddr exec:/service/https/fixvars_socat.sh
2020-08-21 16:15:16	companion_cube	tomasino: interesting Björk video…
2020-08-21 16:21:11	acdw	bjork is so great
2020-08-21 16:21:38	acdw	tomasino: have you met her? my friend studied in Iceland for a semester and right before she left she found out Bjork lived like, three doors down from where she'd been staying
2020-08-21 16:25:07	companion_cube	:o
2020-08-21 16:26:06	acdw	never met her tho
2020-08-21 17:10:58	ℹ 	andinus is now known as notandinus
2020-08-21 17:11:09	ℹ 	notandinus is now known as test-notandinus
2020-08-21 17:15:47	ℹ 	test-notandinus is now known as andinus
2020-08-21 17:28:30	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 17:46:13		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-21 18:25:55	▬▬▶	reen has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 18:32:14		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sN20GokzdM)
2020-08-21 18:50:43		andinus has quit (quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-08-21 18:58:17	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 19:04:44	@tomasino	Saw her once downtown. I know where her house is. But famous people here don't really get mobbed, so I left her alone like everyone else
2020-08-21 19:17:33	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 19:26:13	ℹ 	reen is now known as ryst
2020-08-21 21:56:35	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 22:07:50		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-21 22:08:13		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-21 22:10:29	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-21 22:47:49		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-22 00:08:04	wgreenhouse	tomasino: it still blows my mind that one Iceland is only 0.5 Vermonts
2020-08-22 00:08:25	wgreenhouse	I already live in what I think of as a very sparsely populated rural place
2020-08-22 00:37:40	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 01:19:15	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 01:34:50		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-22 01:44:48	easeout	it looks bigger on the mercator projection
2020-08-22 01:45:13	login	^is that the projection that preserves area?
2020-08-22 01:46:02	easeout	no, mercator preserves local aspect ratio, i want to say
2020-08-22 01:46:29	easeout	like at any given spot, one meter north and one meter east will look the same size on the map
2020-08-22 01:47:29	easeout	but that means the sizes of landmasses look bigger, horizontally and vertically, as you approach the poles
2020-08-22 01:48:56	easeout	vermont is at about N45º and iceland is about N64º… let's see if i can figure this out…
2020-08-22 01:49:21	wgreenhouse	easeout: I meant by population :P
2020-08-22 01:49:25	easeout	oh oh
2020-08-22 01:49:29	easeout	well then
2020-08-22 01:49:31	wgreenhouse	Iceland is about 350K souls
2020-08-22 01:49:42	wgreenhouse	VT is like 650K
2020-08-22 01:49:54	▬▬▶	sulu has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 01:50:27		sulu has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-22 01:50:30	wgreenhouse	sorry if I left you to meditate on my statement for a long time; I went off and did network-configurating and messed some things up and unmessed them again
2020-08-22 01:50:31	easeout	ah ok iceland is 4 vermonts in landmass.
2020-08-22 01:50:39	▬▬▶	sulu has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 01:51:06	easeout	so about 1/8 the density
2020-08-22 01:51:36	wgreenhouse	amazing. as I said, this feels already not very dense
2020-08-22 02:30:28		Sario528 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-22 02:41:44	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 03:24:48	login	iceland is great for computer cooling
2020-08-22 03:26:23		sulu has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-22 03:34:24		djph has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-08-22 03:36:55	easeout	because of the lava, or the elves, or the months of night?
2020-08-22 03:46:30	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 04:33:38	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 04:43:36	wgreenhouse	maybe the geothermal?
2020-08-22 04:43:49	wgreenhouse	I know there are some geothermally powered (and cooled no doubt) datacenters there
2020-08-22 04:46:17		thunk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-22 05:13:22		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-22 05:30:37		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh9X-Zf4wjQ)
2020-08-22 05:39:57	moody	Has anyone tried hacking gemini in to curl?
2020-08-22 06:19:19	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 06:57:54	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 07:45:02		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-22 08:19:17	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 08:34:51		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-22 08:35:24	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 09:06:08	@tomasino	iceland is about the size of virginia
2020-08-22 09:06:12	@tomasino	land-mass-wise
2020-08-22 09:11:14	@tomasino	moody: someone had talked about it, but i haven't seen any issues or PRs show up on the curl repo
2020-08-22 09:11:31	@tomasino	in good news, curl will soon have XDG_CONFIG_HOME support
2020-08-22 09:11:32	@tomasino	https://github.com/curl/curl/pull/5837
2020-08-22 09:24:30	login	nice
2020-08-22 09:48:46		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-22 09:50:25	▬▬▶	awalvie1 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 10:25:24		awalvie1 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-22 10:32:44		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-22 10:33:00	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 11:22:20	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 11:48:56	Cadey	Hi all
2020-08-22 12:28:38	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 14:08:55	moody	tomasino: I was looking at it a bit, the SSL stuff seems a bit complicated
2020-08-22 14:09:12	moody	they have their own abstraction layer around all the different ssl libraries
2020-08-22 15:28:51	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 16:21:43		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-22 17:17:41		awalvie has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-08-22 17:31:03	▬▬▶	sulu has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 18:27:06	▬▬▶	lick has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 18:27:16		lick has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-22 19:03:13	▬▬▶	scottjoe has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:06:13		scottjoe has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		patrick has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		caranatar has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		bacterio has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		lel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		tildebeast has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		jns has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		tiwesdaeg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		southerntofu has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		mhj has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		kayw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		benoliver999 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		links has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		dkibi has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		yali has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		g has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		xfnw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		rak has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		thombles has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		calmbit has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		djph has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		gbmor has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		siina has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		lucidiot has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		alex1138 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		Sario has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:40		cyflea has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		vee has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		wgreenhouse has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		bandali has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		andinus has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		creme has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		styan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		englishm has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		xj9 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		dodolz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		calamitous has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		anton|pw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		rmgr has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		CommunistWolf has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		wingy has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		kevinsan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		griffin has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		tastytea has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		dokuja has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		erin has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		makeworld has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		krjst has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		kline has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		bard has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		Sario528 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		m68k has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		nikita has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		pekka20 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		hhes has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		Cadey has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		cat has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		wangofett has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		companion_cube has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		lvgx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		moody has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		exprez135 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		login has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		dctrud has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		epoch has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		mozz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		sulu has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		paper_ has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		ryst has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		admicos has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		rjt_znc has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		appll has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		xq has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		cyrus has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		jbg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		paper has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		jan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		pentangle has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		julienxx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		gohan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		Ekkie has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:41		omni has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:06:42	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:06:50	▬▬▶	admicos_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:06:51	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:07:01	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:07:04	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	Guest14195 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬���	rak has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	sulu has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	ryst has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:10:54	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:11:11		patrick has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		caranatar has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		bacterio has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		lel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		tildebeast has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		jns has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		tiwesdaeg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		Guest14195 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		kayw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		benoliver999 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		g has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		xfnw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		rak has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		thombles has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		calmbit has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		djph has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		siina has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		lucidiot has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		alex1138 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		Sario has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		wgreenhouse has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		bandali has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		englishm has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		xj9 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		dodolz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		calamitous has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		CommunistWolf has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		wingy has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		kevinsan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		griffin has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		erin has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		makeworld has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		kline has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		bard has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		Sario528 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		m68k has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		nikita has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		hhes has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		Cadey has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		wangofett has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		lvgx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		companion_cube has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		exprez135 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		login has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		dctrud has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		mozz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		sulu has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		paper_ has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		ryst has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		appll has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		xq has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		cyrus has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		jan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		julienxx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		pentangle has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:11:11		Ekkie has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	sulu has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	ryst has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:52	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:12:57	▬▬▶	Guest14195 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:14	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-08-22 19:13:16	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:18	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:20	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:20	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:37	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:37	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:37	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:37	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:37	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:37	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:37	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:37	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:50	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:50	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:50	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:50	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:50	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:50	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:13:50	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:15:46	companion_cube	Cadey: please stop :p
2020-08-22 19:16:42	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:16:43	▬▬▶	moody has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:16:47	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:17:29		patrick has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		caranatar has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		bacterio has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		lel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		tildebeast has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		jns has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		tiwesdaeg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		southerntofu has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		Guest14195 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		kayw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		benoliver999 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		links has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		yali has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		g has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		xfnw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		rak has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		thombles has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		calmbit has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		djph has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		gbmor has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		siina has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		lucidiot has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		alex1138 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		Sario has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		cyflea has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		vee has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		wgreenhouse has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		bandali has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		styan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		creme has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		englishm has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		xj9 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		dodolz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		calamitous has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		anton|pw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		rmgr has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		CommunistWolf has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		wingy has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		kevinsan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		griffin has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		tastytea has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		dokuja has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		erin has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		makeworld has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		kline has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		bard has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		Sario528 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		m68k has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		nikita has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		pekka20 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		hhes has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		Cadey has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		cat has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		wangofett has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		lvgx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		companion_cube has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		moody has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		exprez135 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		login has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		dctrud has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		epoch has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		mozz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		sulu has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		paper_ has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		ryst has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		rjt_znc has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		appll has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		xq has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		cyrus has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		jbg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		paper has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		jan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		julienxx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		pentangle has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		Ekkie has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:17:29		omni has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	Guest14195 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	sulu has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	lvgx has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	ryst has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	moody has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:49:25	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-08-22 19:50:01	@tomasino	and i'm home
2020-08-22 19:50:06	@tomasino	did i miss something?
2020-08-22 19:51:32	djph	19
2020-08-22 19:51:47	djph	oops
2020-08-22 19:55:07	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:55:07	▬▬▶	pekka20 has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 19:55:46	@tomasino	nice
2020-08-22 20:07:57	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 20:59:25	Cadey	companion_cube: netsplits
2020-08-22 21:00:06	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 21:00:06	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 21:00:06	▬▬▶	cat has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 21:00:06	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 21:00:06	▬▬▶	cyflea has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 21:00:06	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 21:00:06	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 21:35:20		ryst has quit (quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2020-08-22 21:39:59		wgreenhouse has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-22 21:40:04	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 21:40:15		hhes has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-22 21:40:17	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 21:40:31		englishm has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-22 21:40:35	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 22:07:59	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 22:07:59	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 22:07:59	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 22:07:59	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 22:07:59	▬▬▶	jbg has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 22:07:59	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 22:07:59	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-08-22 23:09:34	griffin	Hey all!
2020-08-22 23:42:18	▬▬▶	lrb has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 04:30:19	Nalaph	anyone else have issues with geminaut hanging when trying to access localhost?
2020-08-23 05:59:40	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 06:16:33	Nalaph	Hmm...turns out it's not just localhost. Something is causing Geminaut to hang when it tries to access anything my test Gemini server tries to host. I guess something must be wrong with how I'm serving it.
2020-08-23 06:20:31	ℹ 	Nalaph is now known as Nalaph|away
2020-08-23 07:01:40	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 08:11:20	login	hi felix
2020-08-23 08:11:26	felix	Hello!
2020-08-23 08:11:50	felix	Just learned about this channel from the Kristall homepage.
2020-08-23 08:12:18	felix	I joined Ctrl-C.club earlier this month, and started with Gemini.
2020-08-23 08:12:44	felix	Just wanted to say hi. It's all very new to me.
2020-08-23 08:14:48	login	I just learned about the Kristall homepage from this channel and you haha
2020-08-23 08:14:52	login	Welcome
2020-08-23 08:15:09	login	I'm just a lurker, and know only a little bit about gemini and its whole ecosystem
2020-08-23 08:15:51	login	btw, felix, does your browser force https or no?
2020-08-23 08:17:21	login	when i go to https://ctrl-c.club, it offers a certificate for https://discourse.ctrl-c.club
2020-08-23 08:17:51	login	when i go to https://discourse.ctrl-c.club, it offers me a certificate for jenkins.khronos.org
2020-08-23 08:18:06	login	when i go to https://jenkins.khronos.org, it offers me the same certificate, but says 404 Not Found
2020-08-23 08:18:21	login	perhaps khronos.org and ctrl-c.club are compromised
2020-08-23 08:19:09	felix	I just get a 502 error if I tell the browser to accept the cert.
2020-08-23 08:19:33	felix	But try gemini.ctrl-c.club, that one has a working cert.
2020-08-23 08:20:12	felix	Not so much content. :P
2020-08-23 08:26:36	felix	Anyway, got to go! Thanks for the welcome! And nice homepage.
2020-08-23 08:26:47	login	which home page?
2020-08-23 08:28:21	felix	Yours. If tilde.town/~login/ is the right one.
2020-08-23 08:31:07		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-23 08:32:52	login	yes, that is the right one felix
2020-08-23 08:32:54	login	cheers
2020-08-23 09:09:34	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 09:31:24		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-23 11:19:40		tiwesdaeg has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-23 11:20:58	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 11:20:58	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-08-23 11:29:23	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 12:02:33		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-08-23 12:02:49	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 12:21:48	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 12:49:11	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-23 13:55:25	djph	o/
2020-08-23 13:56:05	wgreenhouse	o\
2020-08-23 13:56:09	wgreenhouse	\o even
2020-08-23 14:06:46	felix	Hello!
2020-08-23 14:09:03	djph	how's it going, geminauts?
2020-08-23 14:09:23	kline	i should submit my atom for capcom
2020-08-23 14:09:58	felix	It's going! Been finding cool new corners of gemspace since morning.
2020-08-23 14:10:06	felix	And gopherholes while I was at it.
2020-08-23 14:11:34	felix	Lots of folks seem to come from Gopher, and have more stuff on that side.
2020-08-23 17:07:23	easeout	i like how gemini has expanded the audience for the text internet. personally i would have found the UX downsides of gopher too heavy to bother participating, but with links mixed into gemtext content, that wasn't a problem
2020-08-23 17:08:11	easeout	now that i've been here awhile, i still gopher sites feel clunky by comparison.
2020-08-23 17:08:19	easeout	^still think
2020-08-23 17:08:46	felix	To me it's more about the ease of authoring.
2020-08-23 17:09:11	felix	Gemini makes it amazingly easy. It's Markdown lite in essence.
2020-08-23 17:09:55	easeout	yeah. as hypertext systems go it's the easiest for everyone involved
2020-08-23 17:11:05	easeout	that is an interesting point though, the effect of publication is super low, almost comparable to the effort of getting set up to read content
2020-08-23 17:12:09	easeout	on the web, the difference in effort between publishing vs. reading is way out of scale
2020-08-23 17:12:46	felix	Eh, HTML too can be taught easily enough with the right approach.
2020-08-23 17:13:03	felix	Speaking from experience here. Sadly less than I'd like.
2020-08-23 17:13:50	felix	But gemtext is... whoa. You almost have nothing *to* teach.
2020-08-23 17:13:58	easeout	that
2020-08-23 17:14:12	easeout	you're not expected to do styling, SEO, etc
2020-08-23 17:14:16	easeout	just the content please
2020-08-23 17:14:30	felix	Exactly! People can just sit down and write. And that changes everything.
2020-08-23 17:15:01	felix	Wish there were provisions for horizontal rules though. >.>
2020-08-23 17:15:10	easeout	like, ideally the effort of writing a blog post on wordpress is about the same as publishing a gemtext post, but when it's baked into the medium, you don't need a man in the middle like wordpress to make it accessible
2020-08-23 17:15:30	felix	Yes! That's the big win here!
2020-08-23 17:16:30	easeout	re: horizontal rules, in markdown that's "---", and markdown's whole thing is that the unstyled source code should be reasonable to just read in plain text anyway, so i suggest you just put "---" in your pages
2020-08-23 17:17:44	easeout	i imagine there is a reason a lot of things like that were left out of gemtext. my guess is they wanted to see what we could do without.
2020-08-23 17:19:26	felix	Good point.
2020-08-23 17:22:03	felix	Either way I can get started just fine.
2020-08-23 17:22:06	easeout	yeah
2020-08-23 17:31:31	felix	Nice gemlog, by the way. I only have a couple of pages so far.
2020-08-23 17:36:29	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 17:36:57	lukee	hello fellow travellers and co-refusniks of modernity
2020-08-23 17:38:31	lukee	felix: yes you can use --- but personally I think the gap between the hyphens is a bit ugly
2020-08-23 17:38:46	lukee	why not just use underscores, they join up smoothly
2020-08-23 17:38:51	lukee	___________________________________
2020-08-23 17:39:39	felix	I'm thinking of screenreaders. "Dash dash dash" versus "underscore..."
2020-08-23 17:40:11	lukee	well, both are typographical approximations to a visual flourish
2020-08-23 17:40:43	felix	Yeah. But one of them is accessible.
2020-08-23 17:41:11	lukee	I think both would be equally well understood
2020-08-23 17:41:49	m68k	is there a mature client that parses markdown well?
2020-08-23 17:42:07	lukee	I think most clients dont bother
2020-08-23 17:42:14	m68k	yeah
2020-08-23 17:42:27	lukee	there's not much *.md in geminispace
2020-08-23 17:42:29	felix	Dunno. Kristall just renders markdown as very nice plain text.
2020-08-23 17:42:44	felix	But still plain text. Doesn't try to render it.
2020-08-23 17:42:58	felix	Err.... as HTML I mean.
2020-08-23 17:43:06	lukee	just wear your hair shirt and stick with text/gemini
2020-08-23 17:43:11	m68k	i do feel like there are a number of things I'd like that push the spec into "WWW-creep" and since there's been plenty of folks using .md anyway, at least on gopher and gemini in the early days, *shrug*
2020-08-23 17:43:52	m68k	yeah I haven't done much exploring since gemini blew up, i didn't know how many folks were doing .md
2020-08-23 17:44:19	felix	I found someone just this morning.
2020-08-23 17:44:57	m68k	I have one markdown on my server
2020-08-23 17:45:06		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-23 17:45:07	lukee	according to GUS there are 29 markdown pages vs 20,000 text/gemini
2020-08-23 17:45:08	lukee	gemini://gus.guru/statistics
2020-08-23 17:46:13	djph	I really hope my pages are proper text/gemini ... laalalalalalala
2020-08-23 17:46:26	felix	Wait, I was wrong! Kristall does render Markdown. How did I miss that?
2020-08-23 17:47:10	felix	Must have been looking at files served with the wrong content type.
2020-08-23 17:47:18	lukee	djph - its hard to be wrong. The worst that can happen is to get the link syntax wrong in which case the links wont work
2020-08-23 17:47:54	m68k	my biggest want is to have images rendered in document, it can be done by a client if it wants but also I like being able to fall back on markdown for that kind of stuff
2020-08-23 17:48:07	djph	lukee: I write them as plaintext, then run them through a gemini-format thingy I wrote (because like hell am I gonna write infinitely long lines in an editor)
2020-08-23 17:48:27	lukee	djph: you just need a better editor :)
2020-08-23 17:48:29	djph	images, in a text-format?
2020-08-23 17:48:36	djph	lukee: I already use vim :P
2020-08-23 17:48:38	felix	That's where word wrap comes in. ;)
2020-08-23 17:48:57	lukee	djph: exactly :)
2020-08-23 17:48:58	m68k	*rolls eyes* it's a document, i'm not gonna argue about that
2020-08-23 17:49:19	felix	And well, that's controversial I guess. Maybe clients could have an option to inline images.
2020-08-23 17:49:23	djph	lukee: I'm not learning emacs :P
2020-08-23 17:49:31	lukee	I was thinking MS Word?
2020-08-23 17:49:46	djph	...
2020-08-23 17:49:54	djph	ouch. that hurts.
2020-08-23 17:49:57	lukee	(a joke!)
2020-08-23 17:50:00	m68k	some gopher client will render a link to an image as a thumbnail. Feels very early-Web to me
2020-08-23 17:50:06	felix	But really, if you need a little more, you can always use HTML.
2020-08-23 17:50:48	lukee	m68k: I think there is scope to have this as a client/userpreference option
2020-08-23 17:51:21	lukee	The basic design though is that authors cannot *expect* them to be loaded. One request per page
2020-08-23 17:51:32	m68k	yeah that's what I way saying. Obviously plenty of folks using gemini in a text terminal, and graceful degradation is the whole point
2020-08-23 17:52:08	lukee	yes, why not. Diversity of clients is welcome
2020-08-23 17:52:28	felix	Right! In HTML you have the problem that an image with no alt text can't even be downloaded with Lynx.
2020-08-23 17:52:32	djph	m68k: I'm not looking to argue about it; I'm still on the "learning" side in terms of what gemini is(tm)
2020-08-23 17:52:40	companion_cube	maybe it's more of an "inline link" notion?
2020-08-23 17:52:46	companion_cube	a link that you'd expect to expand inline if you click it
2020-08-23 17:52:53	m68k	ah I'm not arguing either :) sorry if I was rude djph
2020-08-23 17:52:55	companion_cube	whether it's an image or another document
2020-08-23 17:53:15	djph	m68k: not at all, read it as you thought I was telling you off
2020-08-23 17:53:23	lukee	companion_cube: yes that is another thing clients could do for you if
2020-08-23 17:53:28	lukee	you wanted to let them
2020-08-23 17:53:59	companion_cube	I mean maybe it's an interesting concept in itself, and images are just the most obvious use case
2020-08-23 17:54:05	companion_cube	(iframes show it's useful in the web too)
2020-08-23 17:54:48	m68k	I think that there's a difference between saying gemini's a "text format" and saying .gmi files are "plaintext". They're intelligible as plaintext, but they're certainly more than that
2020-08-23 17:55:01	lukee	As long as it is a per-client behaviour and not burned into the spec, I think there wouldnt be much objection
2020-08-23 17:55:26	lukee	m68k: they are both: text and text/gemini
2020-08-23 17:55:27	felix	This!
2020-08-23 17:56:58	felix	Ironically, I once thought of a potential wiki markup format that was in essence gemtext.
2020-08-23 17:57:19	felix	And dismissed the idea. Imagine that.
2020-08-23 17:57:23	m68k	heh
2020-08-23 17:58:19	lukee	a while back I wrote down some ideas about possible options for client hinting for inline inclusion
2020-08-23 17:58:22	lukee	https://github.com/LukeEmmet/GeminiLUACH
2020-08-23 17:58:54	lukee	it is probably a bit heavyweight, but there may be some mileage in it still
2020-08-23 17:59:54	lukee	probably a bit much to expect authors to keep looking up which magic emojii to include
2020-08-23 18:00:24	djph	I think the biggest challenge with images is the whole "gemini doesn't deal with 'large(tm)' filesizes gracefully"
2020-08-23 18:00:39	lukee	my thoughts now are that a simple text hint on the link should be adequate to hint the content *may* be included
2020-08-23 18:00:42	lukee	like this
2020-08-23 18:01:02	lukee	=> gemini://domain/path/to/image.png [+] my image
2020-08-23 18:01:39	m68k	so I don't fully understand, the stuff in the brackets would be rendered as an emoji?
2020-08-23 18:01:41	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 18:01:50	lukee	djph: yes that is the world of gemini ought to stick to small images
2020-08-23 18:02:27	kensanata	Oh, I am on IRC again!
2020-08-23 18:02:35	m68k	lukee: like "Here is my [home] page" the word home would be removed and replaced with the house emoji?
2020-08-23 18:02:37	kensanata	Some days ago I was no longer being admitted.
2020-08-23 18:02:48	lukee	mk68: no the emojii (code points given for reference) label the link as a possible include
2020-08-23 18:02:50	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-23 18:03:00	lukee	no, only on link lines
2020-08-23 18:03:27	lukee	so this would be an *optional* transclusion
2020-08-23 18:03:37	m68k	ok, I see
2020-08-23 18:03:53	felix	So basically you're suggesting extra annotations that a strict implementation can simply ignore.
2020-08-23 18:03:55	lukee	=> gemini://example.com/path/to/png.png 🌄 my image
2020-08-23 18:04:16	lukee	there is one for text/gemini too as an optional client side include
2020-08-23 18:04:20	lukee	felix: exactly
2020-08-23 18:04:36	lukee	it degrades completely
2020-08-23 18:04:49	lukee	hi kensanata
2020-08-23 18:05:56	kensanata	yo
2020-08-23 18:06:50	felix	How's it going?
2020-08-23 18:07:21	lukee	Dealing with images being too big in gemini is easy, just have your client abandon the download after some specified limit of your choosing
2020-08-23 18:09:14	felix	Wait... doesn't the spec say that preformatted text blocks can be handled specially?
2020-08-23 18:09:39	felix	Like allowing clients to fold or skip one marked as ASCII art?
2020-08-23 18:10:10	lukee	yes, clients could do that. They could collapse or fold on headings too if they wanted
2020-08-23 18:10:38	felix	Then they could just as easily render inline SVG. Or PPM.
2020-08-23 18:11:02	lukee	yes, but SVG is sadly quite verbose
2020-08-23 18:11:23	felix	For any serious use, yeah. Though I wrote some by hand.
2020-08-23 18:12:08	felix	Made the artwork for a whole Twine game like that.
2020-08-23 18:12:13	kensanata	Wow, cool!
2020-08-23 18:12:32	felix	Thanks!
2020-08-23 18:12:42	kensanata	I love the principle of SVG, the XML basics not so much; and I generate all my map stuff as SVG on the web.
2020-08-23 18:13:01	felix	That's another thing I like about it, it's easily generated.
2020-08-23 18:13:18	m68k	yeah you could put PPM in a preformatted text block as ASCII block characters. idk about SVG
2020-08-23 18:13:23	lukee	there is this ambiguous part of the spec for preformatted blocks
2020-08-23 18:13:23	kensanata	Some days I wonder whether PS would be just as good... :D
2020-08-23 18:13:32	lukee	the bit after the first ```
2020-08-23 18:13:36	login	if adobe would let it shine, kensanata
2020-08-23 18:13:43	felix	Did that for some illustrations and articles.
2020-08-23 18:13:54	lukee	you could use it as a label, or for other purposes
2020-08-23 18:14:11	login	svg for sharing documents as an open-source pdf alternative seems to have more chance of  success
2020-08-23 18:14:59	lukee	login: sadly I think that ship has sailed for print-specific docs.
2020-08-23 18:15:16	login	lukee: true
2020-08-23 18:15:24	login	PDF is the monopoly winner
2020-08-23 18:15:33	login	but nitropdf is what everybody likes
2020-08-23 18:16:35	kensanata	I think the main issue is that the SVG spec is good and I wouldn't even know where to start about learning PS or PDF.
2020-08-23 18:16:49	lukee	login: but then again Markdown seems to be beating HTML for manual authoring, so who knows
2020-08-23 18:17:17	felix	Yeah, but just try suggesting it should be adopted as such by browsers.
2020-08-23 18:17:42	felix	People yell that it's not a real standard, that it's poorly specified and there are big rendering differences...
2020-08-23 18:18:09	felix	And I'm sitting there like, y'all got a look at web browsers lately?
2020-08-23 18:18:54	lukee	anyway we have text/gemini  and most straightforward html can be rendered to it
2020-08-23 18:19:11	felix	Or better yet the other way around.
2020-08-23 18:19:34	felix	No, wait, you're right, it can work either way.
2020-08-23 18:19:53	lukee	yes it is lossless gemtext->html, but for articles and simple text it can go the other way
2020-08-23 18:20:15	felix	Now I really need to write a converter.
2020-08-23 18:20:28	lukee	gemtext->html is easy
2020-08-23 18:20:44	lukee	going the other way, you could try this https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi
2020-08-23 18:22:35	felix	Nice!
2020-08-23 18:23:14	felix	kensanata here wrestled with the same problem just recently.
2020-08-23 18:23:48	kensanata	felix: And what did you end up doing?
2020-08-23 18:24:08	lukee	thanks - its WIP but good enough in many situations
2020-08-23 18:24:14	felix	Nothing yet. I'm only now dipping a toe in Geminispace.
2020-08-23 18:26:20	felix	Sorry, I should go to bed. See you all some other time!
2020-08-23 18:26:57	lukee	o/
2020-08-23 18:27:35		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-23 18:43:48	kline	the 60s were too polite
2020-08-23 18:44:54	kline	I'm trying to find the name(s) of the manager(s) who pushed back on Gemini 3's nickname/ended the practice, but I don't know if it was ever disclosed
2020-08-23 18:58:28	easeout	felix, thank you :)
2020-08-23 19:06:09		sulu has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-23 19:36:01	ℹ 	alex1138 is now known as alex11
2020-08-23 20:04:24		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-23 20:08:11	Cadey	h
2020-08-23 20:16:14	djph	20
2020-08-23 20:16:17	djph	..
2020-08-23 20:19:30	kensanata	Would you be interested in a wiki where we collectively collect information about clients and servers? Something like this: https://transjovian.org:1965/gemini/ I told Solderpunk I'd ask people what they thought about it and whether they'd contribute; he felt that he was happy maintaining the lists on Circumlunar Space.
2020-08-23 20:20:41	kensanata	And obviously gemini://transjovian.org/gemini should also work...
2020-08-23 20:22:19	lukee	I see no harm in it. I think the list on circumlunar space is not entirely up to date anyway with the various systems that are out there
2020-08-23 20:22:55	lukee	but the list on circumlunar space will probably be the first port of call for most newbies
2020-08-23 20:23:35	Nalaph|away	Circumlunar is a nice landing point, but it's pretty incomplete. Having a wiki with more fleshed-out information would be nice.
2020-08-23 20:23:44	ℹ 	Nalaph|away is now known as Nalaph
2020-08-23 20:25:44	kensanata	lukee: Totally
2020-08-23 20:26:17	kensanata	Happy to hear that others also see the need, Nalaph. :)
2020-08-23 20:26:59	lukee	would there be an edit mode to contribute from http? Wiki editing from gemini is still somewhat... rustic
2020-08-23 20:28:07	lukee	sorry I just checked and yes there is!
2020-08-23 20:29:25	kensanata	Yeah, I enabled it. :D
2020-08-23 20:29:32	kensanata	The token is "hello".
2020-08-23 20:29:37	kensanata	Feel free to share.
2020-08-23 20:30:34	lukee	on the top level you have clients/servers/sites - there are more categories needed perhaps?
2020-08-23 20:31:09	lukee	for example server frameworks, conversion utilities, libraries, CGI, server apps ?
2020-08-23 20:31:19	kensanata	Maybe? Feel free to add them. The top page transcludes the "Welcome" page, so look for it in the index of all pages.
2020-08-23 20:31:38	lukee	ok
2020-08-23 20:31:40	Nalaph	A few simple tutorials for tasks like creating self-signed certs and such would also be a welcome addition
2020-08-23 20:32:18	Nalaph	Took me ages to properly make a .pfx file for my gemini server library
2020-08-23 20:35:42	kensanata	For my wiki server, I included instructions on how to do it using openssl, and the Makefile also includes a target to create them, because I kept forgetting myself. So, I agree totally!
2020-08-23 20:52:43	kevinsan	hi kensanata, nice to see you back! wiki is a good idea - things change quickly.
2020-08-23 20:54:28	kensanata	Yeah, I had a nice trip last week. :)
2020-08-23 20:54:32	kevinsan	for the benefit of less technical people, i suggest the page is split so that the top is for non-tech people, and "Everything else" for when you need to dig deeper.
2020-08-23 20:54:50	kensanata	Sounds good to me!
2020-08-23 20:55:05	kevinsan	i didn't know you had a trip, was this geographical displacement or hallucenogenics?
2020-08-23 20:55:14	kevinsan	i was just aware of your absence on irc
2020-08-23 20:55:43	kensanata	Haha
2020-08-23 20:55:48	kensanata	Some pictures here: https://octodon.social/web/statuses/104705185309891664
2020-08-23 20:56:46	@ben	fribourg++
2020-08-23 20:56:56	kensanata	Anyway, it's nearly 23:00 over here and I have to go to bed...
2020-08-23 20:57:24	kensanata	ben: Yeah, totally! I had never been to Fribourg and I was totally surprised at how nice it was.
2020-08-23 20:57:29	@ben	it's very cute
2020-08-23 20:57:36	@ben	i visited once or twice
2020-08-23 20:57:39	kensanata	Cute is the right word. :)
2020-08-23 20:57:43	@ben	https://gallery.bhh.sh/picture.php?/296/category/13
2020-08-23 20:57:53	@ben	i liked the funicular powered by grey water
2020-08-23 20:58:23	@ben	i miss .ch
2020-08-23 20:58:52	kensanata	Heh.
2020-08-23 20:59:11	kensanata	Those are nice pictures. Very typical. :)
2020-08-23 20:59:58	kensanata	Rhine fall, Bundesplatz, you have everything in this album!
2020-08-23 21:00:05	@ben	haha yep :)
2020-08-23 21:00:13	@ben	i did a semester of my studies at zhaw in winti
2020-08-23 21:00:36	kensanata	Nice!
2020-08-23 21:00:52	@ben	i really need to get back some day
2020-08-23 21:00:54	kensanata	Argh, church bell is ringing, I gotta go...
2020-08-23 21:01:09	kensanata	Do let me know if you're near Zurich if you do.
2020-08-23 21:01:13	@ben	will do!
2020-08-23 21:01:23	@ben	would love to grab a beer :)
2020-08-23 21:01:31	@ben	visit uetliberg or something
2020-08-23 21:01:54	kensanata	Exactly. I don't like beer, but will find an adequate substitute, haha.
2020-08-23 21:02:00	@ben	it might be a while until anyone lets the US visit :<
2020-08-23 21:02:07	@ben	lol fair enough!
2020-08-23 21:02:19	kensanata	Yeah, it'll have to wait until post-corona, whenever that will be.
2020-08-23 21:02:37	kensanata	Anyway, talk to you all soon.
2020-08-23 21:02:39		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-23 21:02:46	kevinsan	nightie
2020-08-23 21:03:08	@ben	güeti nacht
2020-08-23 21:03:13	@ben	ah he already disconnected
2020-08-23 22:03:53		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-23 22:44:29		lel has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-23 22:44:53	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 23:34:44		siina has quit (quit: Oh no, I quit!)
2020-08-23 23:35:37	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-08-23 23:48:18	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 01:13:14		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-24 02:02:55		rjt_znc has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-24 02:09:09	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 03:41:41	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 03:47:26	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 04:17:38		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: #lounge)
2020-08-24 04:49:22	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 05:06:49		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-24 05:43:33		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-24 05:43:46	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 06:25:43		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-24 06:27:14	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 06:27:15	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-08-24 07:51:13	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 10:42:57		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-24 13:19:02	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 13:19:06	idf	hello
2020-08-24 13:27:35	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 13:38:43	lrb	hey idf :) how are you?
2020-08-24 13:39:18	▬▬▶	hugesandwich has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 13:39:30	idf	hello, i'm fine, just got my gemini server running :D
2020-08-24 13:41:30	Nalaph	idf: what are you using?
2020-08-24 13:41:59		hugesandwich has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-24 13:42:56	idf	i'm using my own server, geminim, on my raspberry pi
2020-08-24 13:43:26	Nalaph	nice
2020-08-24 13:43:53	Nalaph	I just got a rough test version of my own server working as well
2020-08-24 13:44:02	idf	nice!
2020-08-24 13:44:34	Nalaph	Wrote the core server loop as a C# library so people can plug it into whatever sort of application they want
2020-08-24 13:45:24	idf	interesting, i thought of something similar around the middle of the development, when it was already too late to convert all of that into a lib
2020-08-24 13:45:46	idf	it is doable now tho, so i might try
2020-08-24 13:46:43	Nalaph	Yeah, my OG idea was that I wanted to create some sort of simple, asynchronous text-based MMO in Gemini, just for the lolz, but then I decided to also make a gemlog so I went the modular route.
2020-08-24 13:47:05	kensanata	Don't be like me and wait for weeks before giving your program a proper name. I spent the morning renaming all my stuff.
2020-08-24 13:47:22	Nalaph	oof
2020-08-24 13:47:26	idf	i just came up with the idea naturally, gemini, programming language is Nim, GemiNim :D
2020-08-24 13:47:57	kensanata	idf: me too. It's a wiki… for gemini… so, uh, like, Gemini Wiki?
2020-08-24 13:48:23	idf	Gemiki
2020-08-24 13:48:59	Nalaph	yeah mine's just gonna be GemSharpLib for the dll and probably GemSharp for the actual server. Dunno abt the game, but if i get that far I'll figure it out :P
2020-08-24 13:49:12	kensanata	Heh.
2020-08-24 13:52:04	▬▬▶	hugesandwich has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 13:53:40	idf	thinking of it, making a gemini lib server would go in theme with the stdlib asynchttpserver
2020-08-24 13:53:50	idf	*server lib
2020-08-24 13:56:10	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 14:19:04	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 14:24:49	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-24 14:34:15	⚡	kensanata o/
2020-08-24 14:36:21	felix	Terribly hot today. How about where you are?
2020-08-24 14:37:30	idf	yeah here's hot aswell
2020-08-24 14:38:29	idf	34 degrees celsius
2020-08-24 14:40:05	kensanata	23.3°C
2020-08-24 14:40:13	felix	I don't even know how hot it's here. Weather app is lying through its virtual teeth.
2020-08-24 14:40:23	kensanata	Hah.
2020-08-24 14:41:08	felix	You don't get that "getting hit over the head" sensation at 31 degrees.
2020-08-24 14:41:17	felix	Especially through a hat.
2020-08-24 14:41:35	felix	38 is more likely.
2020-08-24 14:43:58	moody	heya
2020-08-24 14:45:30	felix	Hello!
2020-08-24 14:50:33	kevinsan	idf, well done getting your site up. your certificate should be created with a CN of your host - some clients reject if the name does not check out.
2020-08-24 14:51:13	kevinsan	also, if you would like a subdomain on the main DNS, let me know (you can have idf.looting.uk)
2020-08-24 14:51:45	idf	thank you, yeah I will try making a certificate with CN.
2020-08-24 14:51:55	idf	that would be great!
2020-08-24 14:54:57	kevinsan	ok idf.looting.uk now resolves to 31.5.228.44
2020-08-24 14:55:09	idf	thanks, i appreciate it
2020-08-24 14:56:19	idf	i'll close the server a bit to reconfigure it
2020-08-24 14:59:29	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 15:01:33	idf	alright cool the server is back up and it works on idf.looting.uk now
2020-08-24 15:02:04	idf	also works on the OpenNIC domain
2020-08-24 15:03:29	moody	working on some sort of geminifs for plan9 currently
2020-08-24 15:04:54	felix	Hardcore!
2020-08-24 15:06:43	idf	sounds really interesting!
2020-08-24 15:08:45	kensanata	moody: I was wondering about that!
2020-08-24 15:09:20	kensanata	moody: Somebody recently announced something based on rc, which didn't seem like a geminifs to me.
2020-08-24 15:09:34	moody	yeah that was me
2020-08-24 15:09:38	kensanata	Ah!
2020-08-24 15:09:50	moody	I've got a little rc gemini server running my site
2020-08-24 15:10:18	kensanata	Very cool.
2020-08-24 15:10:51	⚡	tomasino has a little gemini server running too... ;)
2020-08-24 15:11:14	kensanata	I must confess that my enthusiasm for Plan 9 comes in little bursts. It basically ends whenever I want to use Emacs. :D
2020-08-24 15:11:34	@tomasino	haha
2020-08-24 15:11:47	@tomasino	kensanata, you're like 82% emacs, aren't you?
2020-08-24 15:12:25	@julienxx	hello geminauts
2020-08-24 15:12:34	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-24 15:13:17	@julienxx	moody: a geminifs would be very cool, I'm making a lobste.rs fs as an exercise
2020-08-24 15:13:18	felix	tomasino: that's a cool hack all right.
2020-08-24 15:13:23	kensanata	Well... How are you going to measure, exactly? Of the time I'm at the laptop, there's almost always an Emacs running. I do use Firefox for some stuff, though. Or a PDF reader. And I read a lot of stuff on a phone and a table without Emacs. So... Tricky question!
2020-08-24 15:13:42	companion_cube	if we prick your finger, do you bleed elisp?
2020-08-24 15:13:45	felix	Only because it doesn't run on them?
2020-08-24 15:14:09	@tomasino	hehe
2020-08-24 15:14:20	@tomasino	i'm a vimmer, through and through
2020-08-24 15:14:29	kevinsan	idf, certificate looks good - all working so far as I can see. cool you have your own site on your own server!
2020-08-24 15:14:37	kensanata	felix: I think using a text interface on a phone screen is also a miserable experience, so… I don't know whether I need an editor for mobile devices with a touch screen.
2020-08-24 15:14:51	moody	kensanata: which plan9 do you use normally?
2020-08-24 15:15:12	kensanata	moody: I installed 9front with Qemu on my Debian-derived laptop...
2020-08-24 15:15:21	moody	9front :)
2020-08-24 15:15:37	moody	The 9front dudes do a lot of great work
2020-08-24 15:15:38	felix	I wrote some of my best stories on a tablet. But fair enough.
2020-08-24 15:16:27	moody	which way you get 9front working doesn't matter too much, not many of us use physical hardware anyway
2020-08-24 15:16:43	moody	we just dont like the fragmentation that happens with 9legacy
2020-08-24 15:16:59	kensanata	felix: Yeah, I mean I can see how people can write a lot of text on a phone… all those chat clients with their endless messages, sure. But I'm not a writer and so I don't use Emacs all that much for writing long stretches of text.
2020-08-24 15:17:54	kensanata	moody: I did think for a moment that I'd install 9front on a USB stick and boot from the stick, running it directly. But then I got confused and so now it's inside Qemu.
2020-08-24 15:19:09	kensanata	moody: I mostly got confused because once I had the 9front installation medium on a stick, I thought that was it. But all I had was a USB stick from which to boot and run the installer... I guess I should have tried installing it on a second USB stick or something. Anyway. I confused the installer with the thing itself, haha.
2020-08-24 15:22:03	idf	kevinsan: thanks for checking! Yup, its quite cool i got my own server running. I guess I accomplished what I wanted to do :D
2020-08-24 15:23:19	moody	kensanata: funny that you mention that, there was some disucssion recently on clearing up that part of the install docs
2020-08-24 15:23:30	kensanata	idf: Like all of the programmers in Geminispace, there comes a point when all the programs have been programmed and the progs have rocked and it's time to write some text! Hard lessons I learned from tomasino.
2020-08-24 15:24:19	moody	kensanata: the hardware support is pretty limited at the moment, mostly to older thinkpads
2020-08-24 15:24:34	moody	the kernel is multiboot compliant so you can just have grub start it
2020-08-24 15:24:56	kensanata	moody: if you have connections to 9front people and y'all need a laugh, you can show them my whine-post at gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/2020-08-07_Plan_9
2020-08-24 15:25:30	kensanata	Or https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-08-07_Plan_9 I guess.
2020-08-24 15:26:01	@tomasino	:D!
2020-08-24 15:26:01	kensanata	Funny how using my site with Elpher is quicker than using it from a browser, even if that browser is also running within Emacs.
2020-08-24 15:26:37	moody	ahhh I see the issue you ran in to
2020-08-24 15:27:17	moody	when you escaped to the shell during the boot process you were in the paqfs
2020-08-24 15:27:25	moody	its like the linux initrd
2020-08-24 15:27:25	idf	kensanata: hah, I'll keep that in mind. Luckly, I got quite a lot of stuff to write about
2020-08-24 15:27:40	idf	also i really like elpher
2020-08-24 15:27:55	moody	kensanata: my guess is that your usb controller isn't supported
2020-08-24 15:28:44	moody	I am happy you got it working with qemu :), if you have any questions about the OS feel free to ask or PM me
2020-08-24 15:30:13	kensanata	moody: Thanks!
2020-08-24 15:31:07	kensanata	For now, I'm just enjoying the occasional screenshots of Plan 9 on Mastodon and I think to myself: I could do this! If I wanted to, I could just run Plan 9 right now and do it! Cool! I like. Scroll…
2020-08-24 15:32:27	moody	Yeah there has been a lot of attention about plan9 on it seems
2020-08-24 15:33:47	moody	we've been trying to build some more docs that are less like a full book over at docs.a-b.xyz
2020-08-24 15:35:54	felix	We need all the alternatives we can get nowadays.
2020-08-24 15:36:14	felix	Just to raise awareness that alternatives *exist*.
2020-08-24 15:37:03	felix	But yeah. Time and energy are always in short supply.
2020-08-24 15:37:42	▬▬▶	swiftmandolin has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 15:41:48	felix	Hello!
2020-08-24 15:52:17	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 15:55:34	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-24 15:56:28	⚡	acdw waves back
2020-08-24 15:56:31	acdw	how's it going eeryone?
2020-08-24 15:58:40	felix	Not bad! Did some blogging today. Ran an errand.
2020-08-24 15:58:55	felix	Converted a Markdown file to gemtext. Well, "converted".
2020-08-24 16:01:05	acdw	noice
2020-08-24 16:01:23	acdw	did you do the footnote-style linking, or "inline" ? I can't decide b/w the two
2020-08-24 16:02:56	kensanata	acdw: By inline you mean "at the end of the paragraph"?
2020-08-24 16:02:58	felix	I don't have footnotes in that document.
2020-08-24 16:04:26	acdw	kensanata: I mean like:
2020-08-24 16:04:34	acdw	If you want to follow this link,
2020-08-24 16:04:46	acdw	=> gemini://exampl.com click here.
2020-08-24 16:04:50	acdw	if not, don't. whatever
2020-08-24 16:04:53	acdw	^^ like that
2020-08-24 16:05:22	acdw	basically just converting <a href="...">link text</a> to '\n=>... link text\n'
2020-08-24 16:07:59	felix	Ah. Luckily for me this particular text had no links either.
2020-08-24 16:09:19	acdw	oh nice felix
2020-08-24 16:10:15	felix	I have some write-ups where that could get tricky.
2020-08-24 16:13:12	moody	I have chosen just a footer with all the links
2020-08-24 16:13:22	moody	I've been fairly happy with how it reeds
2020-08-24 16:13:33	felix	That's a way to do it!
2020-08-24 16:14:06	acdw	moody: yeah I think i'm gravitating toward that. it'd be nice to have ... not a *spec*, but a *convention* for how to format them and display them
2020-08-24 16:15:02	felix	That's where your creativity comes in. ;)
2020-08-24 16:15:15	acdw	haha i guess so
2020-08-24 16:17:00	felix	If I may plug my work here?
2020-08-24 16:18:52	felix	Contrast http://ctrl-c.club/~nttp/ to gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~nttp/
2020-08-24 16:19:45	felix	You'll notice My Games translates a lot more readily.
2020-08-24 16:22:23	idf	nice job!
2020-08-24 16:22:32	acdw	goh yes it looks good!
2020-08-24 16:22:36	idf	^
2020-08-24 16:22:58	felix	Thank you!
2020-08-24 16:25:06	idf	cool writing too
2020-08-24 16:25:29	felix	You're very kind.
2020-08-24 16:25:58	acdw	hey kensanata : where can I get gemini-write for emacs? I don't see it on your wiki page here: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-write/about/
2020-08-24 16:26:08	acdw	OMG that 's a git page. I am dumb
2020-08-24 16:26:12	acdw	wow
2020-08-24 16:28:42	idf	felix mind if i add your capsule to my list of favourite capsules :D
2020-08-24 16:30:07	⚡	felix blushes.
2020-08-24 16:30:56	felix	I'll try to add more soon then.
2020-08-24 16:31:13	felix	Got another thing to bring over, but after that I'm not sure.
2020-08-24 16:38:35	kensanata	acdw: Yeah, sadly I haven't applied for MELPA, yet.
2020-08-24 16:39:52	idf	nice too see this number of Church of Emacs fellows
2020-08-24 16:40:03	felix	:D
2020-08-24 16:40:16	kensanata	acdw: Also, the simple inline linking you demonstrated looks terrible to me... I thought a lot about how to link dense hypertexts (such as the Project Gemini Wikipedia page) and ended up deciding that in most case, dropping almost all of the links was best.
2020-08-24 16:41:27	acdw	no worries! I'm gitting everything now
2020-08-24 16:41:57	acdw	and yes, I've used that inline style a bit but it honestly don't look good at all. i don't think i'll use it any more either lol
2020-08-24 16:43:22	felix	I was confronted with this issue while writing my latest book.
2020-08-24 16:43:46	felix	Learned to mention things in such a way that readers can easily look them up.
2020-08-24 16:44:05	felix	If the links don't work or aren't there at all for some reason.
2020-08-24 16:44:26	acdw	^ yeah this is the way
2020-08-24 16:44:34	acdw	or have a list at the end, like a works cited page
2020-08-24 16:44:48	felix	For the most important ones, sure.
2020-08-24 16:45:06	felix	Or at key points throughout the text, to break it up nicely.
2020-08-24 16:45:33	felix	It's a new medium, it will take a while to figure things out.
2020-08-24 16:46:22	kensanata	acdw: When I had a separate list of links for gemini://vault.transjovian.org/full/en/Project%20Gemini the list was over 260 items long. That goes to show that HTML lets people sprinkle an insane amount of links into hypertext that cannot be handled by footnotes. Footnotes are "weightier" (?) than hyperlinks.
2020-08-24 16:47:02	kensanata	Yeah, figuring it out as we go, seeing how the limitations of the medium afford a new style of writing, I love that
2020-08-24 16:47:16	felix	Interesting way to put it! And yes, that's part of the fun.
2020-08-24 16:47:31	felix	Recently wrote a thing that can only meaningfully exist as a web page.
2020-08-24 16:47:41	felix	And had to remind myself that it's fine.
2020-08-24 16:48:26	felix	Friend of mine once lamented the deprecation of tags like center, or color.
2020-08-24 16:48:28	idf	I consider that unexaggerated limitations actually result into smarter solutions
2020-08-24 16:48:51	moody	I was for a while thinking of cool cgi things I could do but then had to stop myself
2020-08-24 16:49:14	moody	its nice to have that bit of resistance
2020-08-24 16:49:20	felix	"But what does it mean?" whined the semantic crowd. It means the text is red. Diegetically.
2020-08-24 16:49:52	felix	That forever changed my understanding of media.
2020-08-24 16:50:18	idf	i guess its too late for me, my server already has cgi support
2020-08-24 16:50:35	moody	cgi itself is fine, but I was trying to wire it up to a bunch of multimedia stuff
2020-08-24 16:50:44	idf	oooh i see
2020-08-24 16:51:03	moody	I am slowly shaking the 'webapp' way of thinking
2020-08-24 16:51:50	idf	yea
2020-08-24 16:53:14	felix	It's such a trap.
2020-08-24 16:53:37	idf	I want to make some simple proxies and gemtext "generators" for different services in CGI
2020-08-24 16:53:52	kensanata	I like webapps. I've written a handful. But I hate it when I get a webapp when I should have been getting a document instead.
2020-08-24 16:53:55	kensanata	Gaaaaaah
2020-08-24 16:54:22	felix	Hey, I still use OddMuse. Not going to knock it. ;)
2020-08-24 16:54:33	kensanata	Hahaha! Oh wow.
2020-08-24 16:54:42	idf	what's oddmuse
2020-08-24 16:54:54	kensanata	A wiki for the web.
2020-08-24 16:55:10	idf	"Oddmuse is one Perl script—and, optionally, one Perl script configuration and a suite of Perl script extensions, CSS themes, and installation examples."
2020-08-24 16:55:12	felix	And more recently for Gopher / Gemini too. Kind of.
2020-08-24 16:55:14	idf	that's uhm a lot of perl
2020-08-24 16:55:29	felix	Well, it's written in it.
2020-08-24 16:55:30	kensanata	Yeah, I still love Perl. :D
2020-08-24 16:56:32	felix	Nothing wrong with that. I have friends who feel guilty about it.
2020-08-24 16:56:41	felix	Like, why?!
2020-08-24 17:01:28		tastytea has quit (quit: Gateway shutdown)
2020-08-24 17:03:45	acdw	kensanata: I noticed that! (sory was away; making lunch)
2020-08-24 17:03:58	acdw	best tag is <marquee>
2020-08-24 17:04:51	felix	:D
2020-08-24 17:05:11	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 17:05:31	felix	Welcome back!
2020-08-24 17:05:49	xq	hey felix, are you the one who issued the html thing on kristall?
2020-08-24 17:06:20	felix	I am! Thanks for the help!
2020-08-24 17:06:26	xq	you're welcome
2020-08-24 17:06:34	xq	i found your profile amusing :D
2020-08-24 17:07:09	xq	> Game developer with an interest in programming language design and implementation;
2020-08-24 17:07:10	xq	this is me :D
2020-08-24 17:07:40	xq	including the name :D
2020-08-24 17:07:44	felix	It's all a game. ;)
2020-08-24 17:08:00	felix	And yes. That could get confusing.
2020-08-24 17:08:00	xq	:D
2020-08-24 17:08:14	felix	I'm not hogging the nick?
2020-08-24 17:08:23	xq	nah
2020-08-24 17:08:38	xq	the "x" is the x from Felix
2020-08-24 17:08:52	felix	I see!
2020-08-24 17:14:09	felix	Good work, by the way. Kristall is my new favorite.
2020-08-24 17:20:50		tastytea has quit (quit: Gateway shutdown)
2020-08-24 17:20:53	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 17:23:23		tastytea has quit (quit: Disconnected by admin)
2020-08-24 17:23:27	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 17:25:57		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-24 17:32:43		tastytea has quit (quit: Gateway shutdown)
2020-08-24 17:32:49	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 17:35:49	▬▬▶	cypher137 has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 17:35:49	@tomasino	kristall rules
2020-08-24 17:36:28	@tomasino	thanks future xq for coming back in time and helping, felix-to-felix
2020-08-24 17:36:50	felix	Hee!
2020-08-24 17:37:02	cypher137	hi
2020-08-24 17:38:17	xq	:D
2020-08-24 17:38:29	felix	Hello!
2020-08-24 17:58:32	idf	goddamn my server sometimes crashes due to an SSL error
2020-08-24 17:59:01	felix	Ouch.
2020-08-24 18:04:42	idf	might have found the probelm
2020-08-24 18:04:44	idf	*problem
2020-08-24 18:05:03	idf	tho i am not sure how to test it, since the server doesnt log enough data
2020-08-24 18:08:11		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-08-24 18:08:36		cypher137 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-24 18:09:29		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-24 18:10:19	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 18:10:37	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 18:13:02	felix	idf: And I know very little about configuring web servers for SSL.
2020-08-24 18:26:14	felix	Anyway, see you!
2020-08-24 18:28:41	idf	see ya
2020-08-24 18:29:13		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-24 19:03:41		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-24 19:30:51		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-08-24 19:37:04	ℹ 	Guest14195 is now known as andinus
2020-08-24 19:37:16		andinus has quit (quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-08-24 19:38:05	▬▬▶	andinus has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 20:06:10	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 21:16:13		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-24 21:26:51		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-24 21:34:43		hugesandwich has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-24 22:29:43	ℹ 	alex11 is now known as t1ldebot
2020-08-24 22:30:03	ℹ 	t1ldebot is now known as alex11
2020-08-24 22:35:56	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 22:59:23		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-24 23:01:55	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-08-24 23:36:12		Nalaph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 00:09:00	kline	xq: i have a curiosity with copy/pasting in kristall, and once i understand it better ill open an issue, but just wanted to check in if it is known or not. essentially, while i can copy text from kristall, not all receiving programs can see it. for example, i can paste this copied text into chromium, but not into terminator (my terminal emulator). i can work around it by pasting into chromiums
2020-08-25 00:09:02	kline	omnibar and copying again. i suspect this is probably related to their being multiple paste buffers and kristall doesnt put it in them all.
2020-08-25 00:09:47	kline	otherwise, its a decent client and im seriously considering dropping chromium for it, between its own http(s) handling and gemini mirrors of sites i use
2020-08-25 00:09:57	kline	(thanks!)
2020-08-25 00:28:30		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-08-25 00:32:58	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 01:08:47		links has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 01:08:56		styan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 01:09:35		yali has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 01:36:39	▬▬▶	yali has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 01:36:42	▬▬▶	styan has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 01:37:28	▬▬▶	links has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 01:49:59	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 01:50:24		acdw has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-25 01:50:43	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 02:18:59		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-25 02:37:10		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-25 02:37:59		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 02:48:19		swiftmandolin has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-25 04:03:49	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 04:36:03	epoch	not sure if it is a feature or a bug, but castor isn't following gemini redirects to non-gemini URLs
2020-08-25 04:36:41		alex11 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-25 04:37:24	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 04:37:31	epoch	for example: gemini://epo.k.vu/4090 (to gopher)
2020-08-25 04:43:12		alex11 has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-08-25 04:44:41	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 04:44:57	ℹ 	alex1138 is now known as alex11
2020-08-25 05:01:20		admicos_ has quit (quit: cya)
2020-08-25 05:01:27	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 05:21:00		admicos has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 05:21:06	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 05:36:10		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 06:12:04	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 06:30:15	⚡	kensanata is working on https://transjovian.org:1965/gemini
2020-08-25 06:42:10	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 06:47:04	@julienxx	epoch: why a redirect and not a link?
2020-08-25 06:52:24	kensanata	And seconds after I send an email to the mailing list, an awesome list on GitHub appears. From 1 list to 3 in just a few seconds. 🙈
2020-08-25 07:30:53	idf	i think I might have fixed the ssl error
2020-08-25 07:34:45	idf	not sure if it's the fix but I noticed the server could try to handshake with the client another time after the initial connection which might have resulted in that error i got
2020-08-25 07:52:55		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 07:55:22	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 08:34:27	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 08:55:19	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 09:15:28	xq	kline, thanks!
2020-08-25 09:15:39	xq	i suspect i fail somewhere with Qt setting all clipboard contents
2020-08-25 09:24:20		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 10:13:37		englishm has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 10:14:01		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 10:14:22		krjst has quit (quit: bye)
2020-08-25 10:14:33	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 10:15:37	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 11:38:43	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 11:43:29		jbg has quit (quit:)
2020-08-25 12:03:56		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 12:16:52	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 12:28:27		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-25 12:57:55		cyflea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 13:11:38	makeworld	Wow Tva looks nice on Android
2020-08-25 13:11:40	makeworld	https://www.oppenlab.net/pr/tva/
2020-08-25 13:17:02	idf	haven't tried it yet, i'll try it now
2020-08-25 13:18:33	idf	wow it looks great indeed
2020-08-25 13:18:54	idf	my figlet banner got squashed on my phone display tho :(
2020-08-25 13:32:15	@tomasino	It's nice to have more options
2020-08-25 13:32:16	epoch	julienxx: because redirects are usual link-shortener behavior, if gemini isn't supposed to follow redirects to non-gemini URIs, I'll just output a text/gemini with a single link.
2020-08-25 13:48:07	@julienxx	I'm not sure about the spec, Castor only redirects to gemini URLs but this could be changed
2020-08-25 13:50:42	@julienxx	I never thought about this use case to be honest
2020-08-25 13:56:38	makeworld	idf: Yeah it's not respecting line breaks >:(
2020-08-25 13:56:59	makeworld	julienxx: It's allowed but not recommended in the spec
2020-08-25 14:04:19	idf	im still not sure how to treat redirects
2020-08-25 14:05:17	idf	server-side
2020-08-25 14:09:48	makeworld	What do you mean?
2020-08-25 14:15:11	idf	when is the server supposed to respond with a redirect
2020-08-25 14:19:54	idf	i mean i know what redirects are but i'm not exactly sure how to implement them in my server, tho thinking of it more now i got an idea
2020-08-25 14:36:35	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 14:40:46	felix	I'm learning new tricks!
2020-08-25 14:48:25	felix	Also what just doesn't work as gemtext. Bummer.
2020-08-25 15:14:05	makeworld	idf: You return a 30 or 31 status code with the new URL in the META
2020-08-25 15:14:18	makeworld	When to do it is differnet, maybe the user can specify that
2020-08-25 15:15:44	idf	yea i was thinking of adding a field in the configuration if you want a domain to redirect
2020-08-25 15:51:21		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-25 16:07:14	idf	welp i just managed to make a script that outputs screenfetch in a gemini page for a demo
2020-08-25 16:10:13	felix	Congrats!
2020-08-25 16:12:25	idf	thanks!
2020-08-25 16:13:21	idf	i just added support for per-user directories so i thought it would be cool to make something like this for the default rasbperrypi user
2020-08-25 16:14:10	felix	I see!
2020-08-25 18:01:34		kline has quit (quit: Bye)
2020-08-25 18:27:16		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-25 19:06:22		jns has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 19:12:10	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 19:32:51	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 20:35:52	makeworld	Amfora is getting some fancy CI!
2020-08-25 20:35:55	makeworld	Not sure if there's a point
2020-08-25 20:36:10	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 21:15:45		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 21:43:30		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 21:45:38	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 22:52:05	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-25 22:52:16		epoch has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-08-25 23:24:02		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-25 23:59:41		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-08-26 00:24:45	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 01:06:41	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 01:26:49		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-26 03:15:16		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: #meta)
2020-08-26 03:15:28	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 03:32:11		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-26 03:32:43	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 03:50:06		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-26 03:50:19	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 04:21:55		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2020-08-26 04:27:37	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 04:27:37	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-08-26 04:50:50	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 06:40:47	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 08:14:51		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-26 08:50:04		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-26 08:50:14	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 09:42:36		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-26 09:42:56	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 10:09:13		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-26 10:11:31	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 10:27:27		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-26 11:26:47	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 11:32:00	kevinsan	There are a small number of Twitter users worth following. I want to view their recent tweets via Gemini. Before I write something, does this already exist?
2020-08-26 11:39:33	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 11:39:40	login	no
2020-08-26 11:40:05	login	but it can if cgi is used
2020-08-26 11:45:44	@tomasino	https://twitrss.me/
2020-08-26 11:45:47	kevinsan	I wrote an awk script which is acceptable enough, but with more effort it could be better.
2020-08-26 11:46:00	@tomasino	make a feed out of the twitter thingies, then it's easy
2020-08-26 11:46:33	kevinsan	hmm, i get Internal Server Error
2020-08-26 11:46:37	@tomasino	it was easier before twitter removed RSS 
2020-08-26 11:46:45	@tomasino	https://feeder.co/knowledge-base/rss-feed-creation/twitter-rss-feeds/
2020-08-26 11:46:52	@tomasino	there's a few other tweet->rss links in there
2020-08-26 11:46:57	@tomasino	one surely still works
2020-08-26 11:48:29	@tomasino	or not
2020-08-26 11:48:31	@tomasino	i dunno
2020-08-26 11:48:32	@tomasino	:)
2020-08-26 11:49:39	kevinsan	they do, but smack of email harvesting or upsell. I think i'll just write my own
2020-08-26 11:50:16	kevinsan	(but thanks for the suggestion - i hadn't thought of that avenue)
2020-08-26 12:04:15	felix	If I may butt in for a moment, y'all knew about this? https://flounder.online/
2020-08-26 12:12:32	kevinsan	felix, i'm aware of its existence, but I don't know what it is - can you summarise?
2020-08-26 12:13:05	felix	It appears to be a hosting service for Gemini capsules, but!
2020-08-26 12:13:28	felix	Also mirrored on the web automatically.
2020-08-26 12:14:08	felix	Portal-style. In fact Gemini links get routed through portal.mozz.us
2020-08-26 12:14:35	felix	And to make it more fun, it also supports twtxt status updates.
2020-08-26 12:14:52	kevinsan	what's twtxt?
2020-08-26 12:15:40	felix	https://twtxt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
2020-08-26 12:16:20	@tomasino	twtxt is cute. i used to have one
2020-08-26 12:16:28	@tomasino	i ... may still? i haven't looked in a while
2020-08-26 12:16:41	felix	It's popular enough in the tildeverse.
2020-08-26 12:17:02	@tomasino	yep
2020-08-26 12:18:22	felix	I vaguely remember seeing yours, too.
2020-08-26 12:20:39	felix	Wait no, yours are both gone now.
2020-08-26 12:20:52	kevinsan	i struggle to form an opinion on these things. they *seem* to replicate the crapfests of the internet. yet, I get the lure...
2020-08-26 12:22:01	kevinsan	the advantage is that typically decent people use them initially - but Mastodon shows that it quickly descends
2020-08-26 12:22:05	djph	readthedocs.io infuriates me
2020-08-26 12:22:12	felix	Yeah. :(
2020-08-26 12:22:13	djph	I can't put my finger on why though
2020-08-26 12:22:43	felix	And twtxt does reinvent the wheel. I'm well aware of that.
2020-08-26 12:23:00	felix	Would rather just use good old newsfeeds.
2020-08-26 12:23:42	felix	But it's a challenge. How simple can it get?
2020-08-26 12:24:08	kevinsan	djph, lol I'm not sure why, but I only ever reach readthedocs pages via search engine hits.
2020-08-26 12:24:36	kevinsan	i mean i'm not sure why the pages infuriate you
2020-08-26 12:24:52	djph	kevinsan: I think it's their UI
2020-08-26 12:25:30	djph	Personally, I'd rather just get linked to a pdf
2020-08-26 12:25:31	kevinsan	yes, it reminds me of old MSDN or IBM RedBook sites.
2020-08-26 12:26:10	kevinsan	perhaps they're giving you flashbacks to the dark-ages of proprietary hell
2020-08-26 12:26:28	djph	maybe it's that - the whole "bad documentation is bad, and now this site makes it easy to share bad documentation"
2020-08-26 12:27:08	kevinsan	and at the same time dress it up to make it *look* better than it is.
2020-08-26 12:28:46	felix	I just write Unix manual pages.
2020-08-26 12:29:11	felix	pod2html emits very clean markup, a bit of CSS and they look great.
2020-08-26 12:32:14	⚡	felix starts thinking how the format translates to gemtext.
2020-08-26 12:43:24	@tomasino	ugh, i really don't grok wine
2020-08-26 12:45:03	enpo	Regarding twtxt: One could have a usenet server where each user got its own group and have moderation turned on. Then you could post to your own group and others could follow the group
2020-08-26 12:46:07	enpo	Usenet would NOT reinvent the wheel :>
2020-08-26 12:46:40	felix	Well, huh.
2020-08-26 12:49:42	enpo	Federation you ask? Already a part of the spec :D
2020-08-26 12:50:53	felix	That's fun to think about.
2020-08-26 12:53:47	enpo	Yes :)
2020-08-26 12:54:43	felix	I caught the tail end of Usenet, you know. Roughly between 1999 and 2001 or so.
2020-08-26 12:56:20	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 12:56:34	felix	Sadly (late) Usenet had all the toxicity Reddit does today.
2020-08-26 12:56:55	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-26 13:05:34	Nalaph	The default state of any system trends towards entropy. I think that applies to social settings almost more than it does to scientific endeavors.
2020-08-26 13:07:02	felix	Good point!
2020-08-26 13:10:57	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 13:11:09	felix	Hello!
2020-08-26 13:11:14	kevinsan	Nalaph, it's a compelling metaphor, but intuitively I think the mechanisms are different. is boredom the mechanism for social systems, I wonder?
2020-08-26 13:11:53	felix	After a while we do fall into a rut.
2020-08-26 13:12:28	felix	The trick is not letting toxicity set in as well.
2020-08-26 13:12:32	Nalaph	kevinsan: It's *a* mechanism, certainly. Not sure if it's the driving one or not.
2020-08-26 13:14:03	kevinsan	a characteristic i notice in some children is that, when bored, they goad others.
2020-08-26 13:19:26	login	kevinsan: like, trolling?
2020-08-26 13:20:42	Nalaph	Anonymity, i think, lends greatly to that sort of behavior. It's much less prevalant in smaller social circles, however, and being part of a collective, moderated social group helps minimize it's impact.
2020-08-26 13:21:05		hhes has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-26 13:21:08	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 13:24:12	@tomasino	we have a lovely net news on tildeverse that's not connected to usenet
2020-08-26 13:24:40	@tomasino	you can get at it from tilde.club, cosmic.voyage, tilde.black, and a few others
2020-08-26 13:24:57	@tomasino	https://tilde.club/wiki/usenet-news.html
2020-08-26 13:25:23	@tomasino	there's private groups in most tildes, and things that start with tilde.* federate
2020-08-26 13:26:49	login	Nalaph: privacy is really the other side of that coin
2020-08-26 13:27:13	login	you have to do the right thing even when there is no incentive to be bad or good
2020-08-26 13:27:23	login	kind-of like putting the trolley back in the trolley stand
2020-08-26 13:30:13	felix	tomasino: oh nice! Says there it's open to the internet?
2020-08-26 13:30:58	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 13:33:16	⚡	felix waves.
2020-08-26 13:37:44	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 13:37:52	login	if i knew how to connect to usenet
2020-08-26 13:38:42	felix	There are instructions on that page.
2020-08-26 13:39:30	login	usenet is just a different protocol on the internet right?
2020-08-26 13:39:43	login	or is it different from the internet and requires some kind of isp support?
2020-08-26 13:44:46	@tomasino	just a protocol
2020-08-26 13:45:03	@tomasino	like gemini. :)
2020-08-26 13:50:22	felix	Thunderbird supports it. Indeed most e-mail clients should.
2020-08-26 13:50:59	djph	Just make sure you're sending plaintext, and wrapping at 72 chars or so
2020-08-26 14:16:23	felix	To change the subject: do people keep Gemini capsules in two or more places?
2020-08-26 14:16:38	felix	Is it common? Is it frowned upon?
2020-08-26 14:32:15	ℹ 	SocialistWolf is now known as vulpine
2020-08-26 14:38:45	kevinsan	felix, if you mean two capsules with the same content, then no - i've not seen a whole lot of duplication of content.
2020-08-26 14:39:22	kevinsan	but if there's a reason why you'd want to do that, then it's entirely up to you.
2020-08-26 14:40:07	felix	I hadn't thought about mirroring, just in general.
2020-08-26 14:40:22	felix	Since it's early on and people kindly provide hosting for free.
2020-08-26 14:40:32	felix	Often on a shoestring budget.
2020-08-26 14:42:03	@tomasino	i'm not prolific enough for that
2020-08-26 14:42:22	kevinsan	i think it works to everyone's advantage to make discoverability as easy as possible. duplicate content makes search tedious.
2020-08-26 14:42:46	kevinsan	but having separate sites for different content - that's perfectly sensible to me.
2020-08-26 14:44:23	felix	Thanks! That's good to know.
2020-08-26 14:45:32	felix	tomasino: Maybe you have the right idea. I'm definitely a bit nuts.
2020-08-26 14:46:16	felix	But yeah, been getting ideas now that the floodgates are open.
2020-08-26 15:01:25		paper has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-08-26 15:01:32	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 15:02:29	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 15:02:42	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-26 15:02:58	⚡	acdw waves back
2020-08-26 15:03:03	acdw	how's it going this morning
2020-08-26 15:03:42	felix	Slowly. How are you?
2020-08-26 15:04:24	acdw	I'm alright! getting used to exwm haha
2020-08-26 15:05:26	felix	Never heard of it. How's that working out?
2020-08-26 15:08:51	idf	I used exwm a while back, I think I still have my configs somewhere on gitlab
2020-08-26 15:09:19	idf	felix: emacs wm. Basically you get X windows into your regular emacs interfarce
2020-08-26 15:09:25	idf	if im not mistaken
2020-08-26 15:09:38	idf	*interface
2020-08-26 15:09:57	felix	I saw on GitHub. Interesting!
2020-08-26 15:15:19	acdw	it's wokring okay
2020-08-26 15:15:25	acdw	i'm also learning emacs at the same time, sooooo
2020-08-26 15:15:32	acdw	it's going ~great~
2020-08-26 15:15:57	felix	:D
2020-08-26 15:16:52	idf	yeah first time i tried exwm i didnt really got used to it, as i wasnt really used to emacs(I used to be a vivivi satanist btw), but now I definetly see me using exwm haha
2020-08-26 15:20:19	acdw	lol yes -- i just switched from vim not long ago
2020-08-26 15:20:48	acdw	actually i used vi for some early system config on my new laptop and I had a hard time b/c i'm at the level now that the muscle memory is more emacs
2020-08-26 15:20:59	acdw	I kept hitting C-x C-s
2020-08-26 15:21:02	idf	i know that feeling
2020-08-26 15:21:02	acdw	vim was not please
2020-08-26 15:34:59		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-26 15:36:38	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 15:36:58	felix	Welcome back!
2020-08-26 15:37:11	acdw	heeey
2020-08-26 15:37:29	acdw	mu4e hung while sending a mail, so i had to restart my X session
2020-08-26 15:37:39	acdw	one problem with exwm lol
2020-08-26 15:38:43	idf	yea that's what made me stop using it eventually
2020-08-26 15:41:05	acdw	we'll see how it goes. if i end up switching away from exwm, i think i'll go with something like dwm with 2 tags: emacs and firefox
2020-08-26 15:41:32	acdw	i would use awesome but it's so much stuf by default and i'm lazy nowadays
2020-08-26 15:42:10	acdw	... he says as hes using emacs
2020-08-26 15:42:43	idf	lel
2020-08-26 15:43:17	wgreenhouse	acdw: I'm not using exwm anymore but only because I basically don't use X anymore
2020-08-26 15:43:25	felix	dwm is real nice, but I seriously dislike the attitude of its creators.
2020-08-26 15:43:28	wgreenhouse	^ chromeos/termux heretic
2020-08-26 15:43:34	felix	:D
2020-08-26 15:43:57	wgreenhouse	felix: yeah, suckless don't seem to like their users much
2020-08-26 15:44:22	felix	Neither do the creators of Termux.
2020-08-26 15:44:28	acdw	felix: yeah the more I read about what they're up to the more it's like -_-
2020-08-26 15:44:59	acdw	i guess awesome or xmonad don't have that problem
2020-08-26 15:45:16	acdw	ooh I could try learning fennel and configging awesome in fennel
2020-08-26 15:45:25	wgreenhouse	felix: re termux I'm actually cautiously optimistic about the direction of the project, but I have contingency plans if it all goes to shit
2020-08-26 15:45:44	wgreenhouse	atm it is my most used distro, though
2020-08-26 15:46:03	acdw	oh is termux a distro? I thought it was a terminal emulator
2020-08-26 15:46:07	felix	Whatever works for you!
2020-08-26 15:46:23	felix	It's *also* a terminal emulator, since it has to include one on Android.
2020-08-26 15:46:32	wgreenhouse	acdw: it's a *nix userland shoved into the data dir of an android app which provides the terminal emulator
2020-08-26 15:46:47	wgreenhouse	apt/dpkg-based but not actually related to debian
2020-08-26 15:46:54	acdw	oh that sounds pretty great tbh
2020-08-26 15:47:01	wgreenhouse	everything compiled against android libc
2020-08-26 15:47:01	felix	But it's also a distro, and they're not taking that side seriously.
2020-08-26 15:47:16	acdw	aahhhhh
2020-08-26 15:47:18	wgreenhouse	wdym
2020-08-26 15:47:36	felix	Rolling releases break stuff all the time.
2020-08-26 15:47:42	felix	 That's for people who fool around with Linux.
2020-08-26 15:47:52	felix	Not for people who need their OS to stay put and let them work.
2020-08-26 15:48:14	felix	I didn't give up on Termux out of boredom, suffice to say.
2020-08-26 15:48:42	wgreenhouse	oh, yes, it is indeed rolling release, and without an alternative/stable branch
2020-08-26 15:49:42	wgreenhouse	totally get that that is unworkable for many
2020-08-26 15:50:45	felix	Might try it again if I ever get a reasonably modern device again.
2020-08-26 15:50:55	felix	Knowing what to expect, this time.
2020-08-26 15:51:16	wgreenhouse	yeah, they had some breaking API changes related to android >= 6 etc.
2020-08-26 15:51:33	felix	Though right now ConnectBot and a tilde account look pretty good.
2020-08-26 15:51:42	felix	If the net is working, of course.
2020-08-26 15:51:43	wgreenhouse	indeed. :) that can do a lot.
2020-08-26 15:52:27	wgreenhouse	at the moment my PAN or redundant array of cheap stuff looks like: android device, chromebook, rpi running slackwarearm, tilde account, and uh an rsync.net account I should remember I have
2020-08-26 15:52:39	wgreenhouse	or discontinue, one or the other
2020-08-26 15:52:59	@ben	rsync.net is great
2020-08-26 15:53:03	acdw	I want to ask how you like rsync.net but it looks like you've answered the question
2020-08-26 15:53:06	@ben	i use their borg offering
2020-08-26 15:53:10	acdw	it's really cheap right?
2020-08-26 15:53:19	@ben	yeah
2020-08-26 15:53:21	@ben	https://rsync.net/products/attic.html
2020-08-26 15:53:28	wgreenhouse	acdw: I use it as a remote for my git-annex repo.
2020-08-26 15:53:30	@ben	1.5¢/gb/mo
2020-08-26 15:53:40	wgreenhouse	it's really good I just tend to forget I have it
2020-08-26 15:53:42	wgreenhouse	:P
2020-08-26 15:54:02	wgreenhouse	and in my latest redo of my infrastructure I haven't remembered to add back that remote
2020-08-26 15:54:08	@ben	i have 1tb of space and it's about $90/yr
2020-08-26 15:54:22	@ben	i really like borg+borgmatic
2020-08-26 15:55:10	acdw	that is pretty good -- i lost all my data in a dumb data move a few months ago
2020-08-26 15:55:18	acdw	so this would probs be good for me
2020-08-26 15:55:22	@ben	All archives:                1.48 TB              1.02 TB            146.32 GB
2020-08-26 15:55:29	@ben	for the tilde.team dailies ^
2020-08-26 15:55:32	acdw	nice
2020-08-26 15:55:41	@ben	original, compressed, deduplicated
2020-08-26 15:56:34	acdw	oh dang rad
2020-08-26 15:58:16	wgreenhouse	for private git repos it's nice too, they have git-shell and git-annex-shell installed
2020-08-26 16:00:31	@ben	nice
2020-08-26 16:02:00	⚡	wgreenhouse adds todo to find his rsync.net credentials again and sync back up with that, lol
2020-08-26 16:02:13	acdw	oh dang that does sound nice
2020-08-26 16:02:30	acdw	i need to do an accounting of the money i'm spenidng for online stuff to see what i can or need to afford
2020-08-26 16:07:48	felix	:D
2020-08-26 16:08:13		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-26 16:09:23	wgreenhouse	I should investigate replacing irccloud with the weechat relay stuff
2020-08-26 16:09:45	wgreenhouse	I really like irccloud's mobile app and not running a bouncer
2020-08-26 16:09:50	@ben	https://tilde.team/wiki/irc#weechat-relays
2020-08-26 16:09:58	@ben	weechat-android is really lovely :)
2020-08-26 16:10:46	wgreenhouse	ben: thx, do you know if setup would be similar from ~club?
2020-08-26 16:11:00	wgreenhouse	I can ask at #club also
2020-08-26 16:11:02	@ben	no
2020-08-26 16:11:07	@ben	you'd need to use the ssh transport
2020-08-26 16:11:17	@ben	we don't have a wildcard cert so that method wouldn't work
2020-08-26 16:11:21	wgreenhouse	ah that's fine
2020-08-26 16:11:49	@ben	deepend's dns for ~club doesn't integrate with certbot so we can't issue one
2020-08-26 16:33:24		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-26 16:37:25	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 16:37:56	acdw	helo again
2020-08-26 16:40:00	felix	Welcome back!
2020-08-26 16:41:28	acdw	:D
2020-08-26 16:57:01		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-26 17:56:20		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-26 18:03:52		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-26 18:19:42	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 18:21:58	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 19:01:07		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-26 19:18:50	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 20:31:45	ℹ 	Nalaph is now known as oof
2020-08-26 20:31:54	ℹ 	oof is now known as Nalaph
2020-08-26 20:47:52		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-26 21:09:40		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-26 21:47:05	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-08-26 22:30:10		peterbb has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-26 23:13:02		rodolphoeck has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-27 01:32:29	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 02:46:34		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Changing host)
2020-08-27 02:46:34	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 03:54:07	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 04:17:09		moody has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-08-27 04:17:34	▬▬▶	djph_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 09:42:58		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-27 10:10:24		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-27 10:34:28	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 10:34:37	⚡	idf waves
2020-08-27 10:35:33	idf	after some time of keeping the server down for some fixes both system-wise and programming-wise, I have started my own hosting service!
2020-08-27 11:30:20	@tomasino	Nice!
2020-08-27 11:30:35	@tomasino	Gemini hosting only or a whole tilde?
2020-08-27 11:33:38	idf	just gemini hosting for now atleast
2020-08-27 11:34:55	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 11:40:13	idf	i sent it on the maillist if you're interested
2020-08-27 11:43:38	@tomasino	i see! :D
2020-08-27 11:43:43	@tomasino	hope you get lots of users
2020-08-27 11:44:38	idf	thanks you :D
2020-08-27 11:46:56	idf	*thank
2020-08-27 12:27:57	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 12:43:58	felix	Status report: flounder.online works a lot like a (hosted) personal wiki.
2020-08-27 12:44:10	felix	And it turns out to have a feature we discussed here a few days ago.
2020-08-27 12:44:36	felix	Small image files are embedded in the web rendition of a page.
2020-08-27 12:52:16	idf	very interesting
2020-08-27 12:53:15	idf	how is the image rendered exactly
2020-08-27 12:53:37	idf	by the client or is it from something like libcaca and turns images into ascii art
2020-08-27 12:54:21	felix	Wrong word. I mean inlined?
2020-08-27 12:54:41	felix	See for yourself: felixp7.flounder.online
2020-08-27 12:55:24	felix	It just becomes an img element with the link label as alt text.
2020-08-27 12:55:37	idf	i see
2020-08-27 12:56:22	felix	Makes sense on the web, while preserving the spirit of Gemini.
2020-08-27 12:56:54	login	data: inline?
2020-08-27 12:57:01	login	like google images?
2020-08-27 12:57:29	felix	No, it simply points at the image file on the server.
2020-08-27 12:57:58	login	oh, i see
2020-08-27 12:58:00	login	so like <img>
2020-08-27 12:58:12	felix	That's what I said.
2020-08-27 12:58:43	felix	Visit the same URL with both a Gemini client and a web browser.
2020-08-27 12:59:55	idf	i see now
2020-08-27 12:59:56	idf	very cool
2020-08-27 13:06:22	felix	Clever thing, isn't it? Just the thing to ease people into Gemini.
2020-08-27 13:10:23	felix	And it looks great on mobile.
2020-08-27 13:10:44	felix	Gemtext is perfect for that in fact, I hadn't thought about it.
2020-08-27 13:11:11	felix	But if anything the spec makes it better suited for mobile than terminals.
2020-08-27 13:11:26	idf	i think the spec makes it better suited for everything
2020-08-27 13:11:30	felix	While Gopher is the other way around.
2020-08-27 13:11:32	felix	:D
2020-08-27 13:11:52	idf	by everything i mean every device screen
2020-08-27 13:12:06	felix	You have a point there. I should write a Tcl/Tk viewer.
2020-08-27 13:12:27	idf	i mean it's very simple and it lets the client decide how to wrap the text and all
2020-08-27 13:13:14	idf	a tcl/tk viewer would certainly be interesting
2020-08-27 13:14:33	felix	I'll definitely consider it then!
2020-08-27 13:56:21	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 13:57:04	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-27 14:08:19	kline	hello
2020-08-27 14:08:39	idf	hi
2020-08-27 14:23:21	@tomasino	Moo
2020-08-27 14:26:08	felix	Meow?
2020-08-27 14:27:41	idf	oo oo aa aa
2020-08-27 14:29:26	dkibi	morning
2020-08-27 14:30:20	felix	:D
2020-08-27 14:32:45	@tomasino	:D
2020-08-27 14:32:52	@tomasino	eep opp ork ahh ahh
2020-08-27 14:40:29	⚡	felix <- actually banging out some code.
2020-08-27 15:26:11	felix	Almost there...
2020-08-27 15:29:37	idf	u can do it
2020-08-27 15:30:04	@tomasino	keep it up!
2020-08-27 15:32:50	felix	It's alive! Aliiive!
2020-08-27 15:33:45	idf	yay
2020-08-27 15:33:51	companion_cube	tcl/tk is definitely in tune with the minimalistic aspect, innit?
2020-08-27 15:34:06	@tomasino	huzzah!!
2020-08-27 15:34:19	felix	Definitely!
2020-08-27 15:34:26	felix	87 lines, this has to be some sort of record.
2020-08-27 15:34:35	companion_cube	felix: care to share?
2020-08-27 15:34:38	kayw	please do
2020-08-27 15:34:41	felix	One moment, lemme upload it somewhere.
2020-08-27 15:34:49	kayw	tcl/tk looks very cool, i need to look into it
2020-08-27 15:34:51	felix	Beware, it's *very* primitive.
2020-08-27 15:36:16	companion_cube	I regularly consider learning the tk part
2020-08-27 15:36:57	companion_cube	but there's still a bit of learning curve, at least with the bindings I know
2020-08-27 15:37:07	idf	i kinda want to make a client too
2020-08-27 15:37:39	felix	https://gist.github.com/felixplesoianu/df324ad0cc4caca93dbd506084ea3d5b
2020-08-27 15:37:50	felix	Temp location, don't count on it staying there.
2020-08-27 15:38:03	companion_cube	oh dang, it also render gemtext
2020-08-27 15:38:19	⚡	tomasino slurps
2020-08-27 15:38:31	felix	That's what I was aiming for.
2020-08-27 15:38:41	companion_cube	ah I thought it was a client too
2020-08-27 15:38:58	felix	No way I can bang out a working client in an hour.
2020-08-27 15:39:23	companion_cube	hu, I mean, TLS is a pain, but isn't tcl that magical? :D
2020-08-27 15:39:46	felix	It is!
2020-08-27 15:41:53	felix	Just look at that code. I'm nowhere near that fast a coder normally.
2020-08-27 15:41:55	companion_cube	that seems like a useful skill
2020-08-27 15:43:41	companion_cube	do you have a sample file? can't find how to have kristall give me the raw content 😂
2020-08-27 15:44:06	companion_cube	ahh nvm
2020-08-27 15:44:42	companion_cube	holy fuck it works
2020-08-27 15:44:51	felix	That's what I said!
2020-08-27 15:45:17	companion_cube	http://vrac.cedeela.fr/2020-08-27-114456_1367x1004_scrot.png nice
2020-08-27 15:45:38	felix	Thanks!
2020-08-27 15:45:43	felix	Looks as expected.
2020-08-27 15:46:58	companion_cube	I guess the format being line based is a big help
2020-08-27 15:47:08	felix	Exactly!
2020-08-27 15:47:20	felix	In fact it's a perfect match for the Tk text widget.
2020-08-27 15:47:31	companion_cube	:)
2020-08-27 15:47:47	felix	You'd think it was designed that way.
2020-08-27 15:48:21	companion_cube	:-°
2020-08-27 15:51:37	felix	So you don't have a Gemini capsule yet?
2020-08-27 15:52:28	companion_cube	no, I don't write content :(
2020-08-27 15:53:07	@tomasino	:(
2020-08-27 15:55:07	companion_cube	I have a blog I always feel guilty about because I never update it
2020-08-27 15:56:23	felix	I have too many.
2020-08-27 15:57:02	felix	Try a digital garden instead, it's a lot less pressure.
2020-08-27 15:57:10	felix	And gemtext is inviting.
2020-08-27 15:57:12	companion_cube	:D
2020-08-27 15:57:17	companion_cube	hum
2020-08-27 15:57:28	companion_cube	are y'all interested in formal logic? :p
2020-08-27 15:57:44	felix	I'm afraid it's a bit over my head.
2020-08-27 15:57:53	felix	Outside of what little I remember from high school.
2020-08-27 15:58:01	felix	And Prolog.
2020-08-27 15:58:01	@tomasino	i got my fill in descrete math
2020-08-27 15:59:11	companion_cube	maybe I should try some day, will look at what's the easiest for hosting (a Go server probably)
2020-08-27 16:00:15	@tomasino	hosting gemini?
2020-08-27 16:00:20	companion_cube	yep
2020-08-27 16:00:34	companion_cube	although the pb is, most people I know won't know how to access gemini
2020-08-27 16:01:21	dkibi	companion_cube: are you reading e.g. CAPCOM? I so far didn't post any formal logic stuff because I assumed it would probably be boring for most, but if there is at least one reader this might change ^^
2020-08-27 16:05:22	@tomasino	write what you enjoy. there's always people out there lurking who will enjoy it
2020-08-27 16:07:33	dkibi	yeah you're right. and I don't even find time to write about what I want to write about that might be enjoyable for many
2020-08-27 16:09:31	dkibi	the other day I read Jason Shiga's Meanwhile and I really enjoyed it and I wanted to write down my thoughts about it too ^^
2020-08-27 16:10:12	felix	There's at least one server out there that does both Gemini and HTTP.
2020-08-27 16:10:42	felix	And there are always portals.
2020-08-27 16:11:40	idf	shameless plug: If you want you could use my hosting service O.o, doesn't support http proxying yet tho
2020-08-27 16:11:48	▬▬▶	swiftmandolin has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 16:11:51	idf	i mean mirroring not proxying
2020-08-27 16:12:07	idf	but i have an idea on how to do it with just a gitlab page
2020-08-27 16:17:57	idf	i really want to start a blog on gemini but idk what to write
2020-08-27 16:19:54	felix	I didn't know either when I joined ctrl-c.club a week or two ago.
2020-08-27 16:20:06	felix	Or flounder.online yesterday.
2020-08-27 16:20:30	felix	But yeah, no more blogs for me. Got too many already.
2020-08-27 16:20:36	idf	hah
2020-08-27 16:21:47	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 16:22:02	acdw	good morning everyone!
2020-08-27 16:22:06	felix	Hello!
2020-08-27 16:22:09	idf	hello
2020-08-27 16:22:15	acdw	do yall know if there's any way to get elpher to stream music?
2020-08-27 16:22:29	acdw	I want to listen to the gemcast (by ben) but I don't want to install diohsc
2020-08-27 16:22:47	acdw	also how are you?
2020-08-27 16:23:04	felix	Good! I hacked together a thing earlier.
2020-08-27 16:23:15	acdw	oh yeah?
2020-08-27 16:23:20	felix	We were just talking about taking the plunge.
2020-08-27 16:23:28	idf	same, i just shortened some code that bugged me today
2020-08-27 16:24:14	acdw	the plunge?!
2020-08-27 16:24:28	felix	You know, making a Gemini capsule.
2020-08-27 16:24:41	acdw	oh yes! that plunge, lol
2020-08-27 16:24:58	acdw	reminds me, i still need to buy another vps
2020-08-27 16:28:15	felix	:D
2020-08-27 16:30:16	felix	As for the other thing: gemtext viewer prototype in 60-90 minutes.
2020-08-27 16:30:25	felix	In Tcl/Tk.
2020-08-27 16:35:13	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 16:36:12	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-27 16:36:22	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 16:36:50		DealPete has left #gemini
2020-08-27 16:38:43	felix	Oh! I should probably share this: https://mastodon.online/web/statuses/104759653876001442
2020-08-27 16:39:23		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-27 16:41:53		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-27 16:46:59	▬▬▶	DealPete has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 16:47:22	DealPete	exit
2020-08-27 16:47:25		DealPete has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-27 17:41:39	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 17:48:49	felix	Welcome back!
2020-08-27 17:49:39		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-27 17:50:32	acdw	heeeyy
2020-08-27 17:50:36	acdw	lol
2020-08-27 17:50:44	acdw	sorry I am hacking on exwm so I keep restarting it
2020-08-27 17:50:50	acdw	which kills circe
2020-08-27 17:51:31	idf	makes sense
2020-08-27 17:52:23	acdw	oh no now i'm watching this video my wife sent me
2020-08-27 17:52:25	acdw	https://www.youtube.com/embed/_JmNzIN0c2c?rel=0&vq=hd720
2020-08-27 17:52:41	acdw	perspectival
2020-08-27 17:52:53	felix	May I recommend a nested X server? :P
2020-08-27 17:53:03	acdw	ooh like xephyr?
2020-08-27 17:53:22	felix	Yep!
2020-08-27 17:53:23	acdw	that could help! OR I could keep my chats in a tmux session
2020-08-27 17:53:27	acdw	and sign into it
2020-08-27 17:53:34	felix	Or that!
2020-08-27 17:53:40	acdw	sorry, "attache" to it
2020-08-27 17:53:52	acdw	or I could just keep spamming this channel
2020-08-27 17:53:54	acdw	:D
2020-08-27 17:55:13	idf	lel
2020-08-27 17:55:32	felix	Frankly I like irssi better than hexchat, but it hogs a terminal.
2020-08-27 17:56:40	idf	I really like ERC
2020-08-27 17:57:28	felix	:D
2020-08-27 17:59:11	felix	All good apps run on the Emacs operating system. It only lacks a decent text editor. :P
2020-08-27 17:59:21	acdw	idf: ERC over circe? just curious
2020-08-27 17:59:31	idf	nah just play M-x erc-tls
2020-08-27 17:59:34	idf	*plain
2020-08-27 18:00:00	idf	wow that typo looks like the autocomplete made it
2020-08-27 18:00:14	acdw	hehe
2020-08-27 18:00:32	acdw	oh I meant ERC > circe? You like ERC more than circe, I'm guesing
2020-08-27 18:00:42	idf	ooh
2020-08-27 18:00:48	idf	sorry i haven't used circe
2020-08-27 18:00:58	acdw	haha no worries
2020-08-27 18:00:59	idf	so cant say anything about it
2020-08-27 18:01:07	companion_cube	felix: you can probably run neovim inside emacs
2020-08-27 18:01:13	companion_cube	to get the best of both worlds
2020-08-27 18:01:16	felix	Figures.
2020-08-27 18:01:19	acdw	lol yes
2020-08-27 18:01:25	idf	or just use evil-mode if you want
2020-08-27 18:01:50	acdw	eventually someone will use neovim's embedding capabilities to embed that directly in emacs
2020-08-27 18:09:48	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 18:10:25	felix	Hello!
2020-08-27 18:10:45	lukee	hi felix
2020-08-27 18:10:53	felix	How are you?
2020-08-27 18:11:19	lukee	Good, just writing a blog post about "taking back control"
2020-08-27 18:11:46	felix	Sounds good!
2020-08-27 18:12:10	lukee	I'm discovering there is a swathe of the web that can be viewed quite happily in a gemini client
2020-08-27 18:12:30	lukee	so maybe we can just release the gemini-bots onto the web?
2020-08-27 18:12:47	felix	Well... in Kristall anyway. And it fails silently on some pages.
2020-08-27 18:13:29	lukee	I've been working on a generic html->gmi converter that can plug into many work flows
2020-08-27 18:13:38	felix	But if the two can interleave, and they can, that's going to help.
2020-08-27 18:13:47	felix	Nice!
2020-08-27 18:13:49	lukee	https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi
2020-08-27 18:13:51		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-27 18:14:09	lukee	I got some user requests recently that made me return to it
2020-08-27 18:14:23	felix	I joined flounder.online, that serves the same content over both protocols.
2020-08-27 18:14:39	felix	And wrote my first gemtext viewer just earlier.
2020-08-27 18:14:48	idf	I finally got a fix for that SSL error i had btw
2020-08-27 18:14:48	lukee	what is the editing interface - the http website?
2020-08-27 18:15:22	lukee	cool - what is the UI layer your gemtext viewer is written for?
2020-08-27 18:15:34	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 18:15:50	felix	That's exactly right, it's basically a kind of simple wiki.
2020-08-27 18:15:58	felix	And it's Tcl/Tk.
2020-08-27 18:16:15	lukee	nice
2020-08-27 18:16:27	lukee	are you going to put a networking client behind the gemtext?
2020-08-27 18:17:07	felix	I don't plan to, but who knows, in the future.
2020-08-27 18:17:17	lukee	so what is the use case you have in mind?
2020-08-27 18:17:24	felix	Plenty of good clients out there, I need a local viewer.
2020-08-27 18:17:44	lukee	to assist with authoring to preview the content?
2020-08-27 18:18:33	felix	Yeah, because Bombadillo doesn't do much formatting and Kristall doesn't have a file dialog yet.
2020-08-27 18:18:50	felix	It was mostly for fun, TBH, to see if it's really as easy as it seems.
2020-08-27 18:19:04	lukee	I suppose it was?!
2020-08-27 18:19:26	felix	Took me something like 60-90 minutes for a working prototype.
2020-08-27 18:19:36	lukee	that's productive
2020-08-27 18:19:52	felix	Couldn't believe my eyes.
2020-08-27 18:19:53	lukee	I'm not familiar with either Tcl or Tk
2020-08-27 18:20:25	felix	https://gist.github.com/felixplesoianu/df324ad0cc4caca93dbd506084ea3d5b
2020-08-27 18:20:44	lukee	Do you have to manually deal with reflow, or does the toolkit do it for you?
2020-08-27 18:22:11	felix	The latter. It's powerful enough to render HTML if you can parse it.
2020-08-27 18:22:31	felix	Complete with forms.
2020-08-27 18:22:48	lukee	screenshot?
2020-08-27 18:22:58	felix	I don't have one yet, sorry.
2020-08-27 18:23:36	lukee	every gui needs a screenshot ;)
2020-08-27 18:24:49	felix	Well, yeah, once it's a little more substantial.
2020-08-27 18:25:38	lukee	good luck. Its quite addictive to see documents emerge out of the ether just the way you want them
2020-08-27 18:25:49	felix	Thanks! yes it is!
2020-08-27 18:27:05	⚡	felix stifles a yawn.
2020-08-27 18:27:12	felix	Sorry, got to go. See you!
2020-08-27 18:27:17	lukee	ok bye
2020-08-27 18:29:38		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-27 18:54:35		djph has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-27 19:15:27	▬▬▶	mmmattyx has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 19:26:02		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-27 20:59:33		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-27 21:25:39	lukee	just finished my essay/post/thing \o/
2020-08-27 21:25:43	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/27-Aug-2020_Web_client_autonomy.gmi
2020-08-27 21:52:59	▬▬▶	sumpygump has joined #gemini
2020-08-27 22:13:18	kevinsan	lukee, good article (other than the grammatical car-crash that is "without hardly any significant loss")
2020-08-27 22:14:02	lukee	haha.
2020-08-27 22:14:03	kevinsan	the next item on your list of ponderings is "how to identify the sites in the long-tail"
2020-08-27 22:14:22	lukee	I like to car crash metaphors too
2020-08-27 22:15:38	lukee	"without hardly any significant loss" -> "usually without any significant loss"
2020-08-27 22:15:45	lukee	just fixed
2020-08-27 22:16:20	kevinsan	is that article also visible on the web?
2020-08-27 22:16:56	lukee	only via a proxy
2020-08-27 22:17:42	kevinsan	your mention of 'preaching to the converted' is a clue that it should really be published on the world-wide-internets
2020-08-27 22:18:17	lukee	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/27-Aug-2020_Web_client_autonomy.gmi
2020-08-27 22:18:52	kevinsan	I don't think search engines will reach that, will they?
2020-08-27 22:18:56	lukee	I dont really have a web blog, although I do have a website
2020-08-27 22:19:15	lukee	Maybe I should put it up there.
2020-08-27 22:20:49	kevinsan	i would - gets the message out to people who identify with your words.
2020-08-27 22:24:05	lukee	I'm putting it up there now.
2020-08-27 22:25:10		mmmattyx has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-08-27 22:27:28	xj9	we have a web gateway on sunshine gardens dot org that serves gemlogs over http for sharing
2020-08-27 22:28:42	xj9	its ok, i'm good browing with kristall, but i'm not trying to spread words
2020-08-27 22:31:42	lukee	Its on my site now here: https://www.marmaladefoo.com/uploads/writings/27-Aug-2020_Web_client_autonomy.htm
2020-08-27 22:32:10	lukee	Its nice I can just save the current page from GemiNaut and dump that in an html file
2020-08-27 22:43:13	lukee	xj9: how often do you find you have to fire up a web browser after following a web link in Kristall from a gemini page?
2020-08-27 22:43:56	lukee	I recall that Kristall has an intrinsic html/http viewer
2020-08-27 23:04:11	kline	lukee: im dangerously close to just not using chromium any more in place of kristall
2020-08-27 23:04:36	kline	it does a reasonably good job at rendering pages, and what it cant do is what i dont really want anyway
2020-08-27 23:04:42	xj9	lukee: if i'm browsing in kristall, i just stay there
2020-08-27 23:05:14	xj9	the only thing that i would like is slightly better support for forms so i can browse patchfoo there too
2020-08-27 23:05:56	xj9	if the page doesn't work in kristall i usually ignore it
2020-08-27 23:06:00	lukee	This is my experience too (not using Kristall though, but unreleased GemiNaut). Only in about 10% of cases do I decide I need to launch a "real" browser now
2020-08-27 23:07:21	lukee	xj9: forms are a nice feature of the web
2020-08-27 23:07:45	lukee	but quite often it seems websites put a javascript layer on top of them :(
2020-08-27 23:16:53		drskrzyk has quit (quit: whee)
2020-08-27 23:35:48		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-27 23:36:21	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 00:13:29		makeworld has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-28 00:16:59	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 00:34:20	login	hi makeworld
2020-08-28 02:36:43	▬▬▶	dmolliae has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 03:06:13	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 03:20:39	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 04:01:46		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-08-28 06:02:58		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-28 06:25:00	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 08:44:18	idf	after hacking some imports from C and testing with openssl s_client geminim finally doesn't crash when a client attempts to resume a session
2020-08-28 08:44:54	idf	also i made a PR to Nim to add set_session_id_context to the libs so importing from C in the code itself won't be necessary :p
2020-08-28 09:06:00	▬▬▶	dmolliae_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 09:09:03		dmolliae has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-28 09:47:27		lvgx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-28 09:57:14	rmgr	@Lukee your article has inspired me to try and build html2gmi functionality into av98
2020-08-28 09:58:10	rmgr	The main way I use av98 is to ssh to a raspberry pi in my house from which ever device I'm on so http links don't work for me so this would be great
2020-08-28 10:21:30	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 10:32:41		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-28 11:03:57	rmgr	Well I've got it working by using a subprocess call to html2gmi. When I feel adventurous I guess I'll have a bash at porting that to python!
2020-08-28 11:45:35	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 11:46:22	lukee	rgmr: glad you managed to get it to work for you
2020-08-28 11:47:09	lukee	porting to python is probably non-trivial. There is an underlying Go library html2gemini which does the heavy lifting of html parsing and emitting the content
2020-08-28 11:49:08	lukee	there are probably some good html parsing libraries for python though, so you could build on top of them
2020-08-28 12:17:12	▬▬▶	lain has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 12:21:19	idf	i love lain
2020-08-28 12:21:25	lain	i love lain
2020-08-28 12:23:24	⚡	tomasino breathlessly whispers "giiiirls"
2020-08-28 12:57:52	⚡	tiwesdaeg waves
2020-08-28 13:00:39		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-28 13:05:17	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 14:25:31	Cadey	the game
2020-08-28 15:10:42	@tomasino	is afoot?
2020-08-28 15:11:18	wgreenhouse	Cadey: thx for reminding me to visit my astrobotany plant
2020-08-28 15:11:20	wgreenhouse	:)
2020-08-28 15:50:09		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-28 16:05:39	▬▬▶	hugesandwich has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 16:05:54	▬▬▶	dmolliae has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 16:05:54	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-28 16:06:02	felix	Hello!
2020-08-28 16:06:17	companion_cube	dang, kristall is not very convenient when it comes to renew certificates
2020-08-28 16:06:33	xq	companion_cube: complaint taken
2020-08-28 16:06:44	xq	i'd love to hear improved methods
2020-08-28 16:07:38	@tomasino	didn't i put an issue in with a suggestion?
2020-08-28 16:07:41	@tomasino	i thought i did
2020-08-28 16:07:54	@tomasino	a button on the cert warning page to "revoke/renew"?
2020-08-28 16:08:11	companion_cube	xq: a button for revoking trust immediately? idk
2020-08-28 16:08:27	companion_cube	I wonder if the new certificate is signed with the old one
2020-08-28 16:08:41		dmolliae_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-28 16:15:10	felix	It's a bit clunky right now, yeah. Can't complain, at version 0.3
2020-08-28 16:19:36	companion_cube	ahah indeed :D
2020-08-28 16:33:12	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 17:32:45		tastytea has quit (quit: Gateway shutdown)
2020-08-28 17:32:49	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 17:38:43	xq	you can also just turn off TOFU :D
2020-08-28 17:46:03	felix	Guess people are security-conscious. Comes with the territory.
2020-08-28 17:46:14	@tomasino	i like the warnings
2020-08-28 17:46:24	@tomasino	but it takes a few to manually revoke
2020-08-28 18:25:07		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-28 18:35:16		andinus has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3)")
2020-08-28 18:51:09		hugesandwich has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-28 19:41:34	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 19:41:47	lukee	hi folks
2020-08-28 19:42:02	@tomasino	hiya
2020-08-28 19:43:16	lukee	did you make any progress with gemini+stream://?
2020-08-28 19:43:39	@tomasino	just the mailing list post
2020-08-28 19:43:48	@tomasino	i don't actually have any server software or client software i've written yet
2020-08-28 19:43:56	@tomasino	i just talk about stuff and write content
2020-08-28 19:44:20	@tomasino	unless you count gemini://tomasino.org but xq "wrote" most of that 
2020-08-28 19:47:17	lukee	Nice. I saw a post somewhere on the internet which was a simple command line app that ran a minimal webserver piped into any command line application
2020-08-28 19:47:30	lukee	can't find it now
2020-08-28 19:47:53	lukee	your minimal server reminded me of it
2020-08-28 19:47:54	@tomasino	python3 -m http.server 8000
2020-08-28 19:47:55	@tomasino	?
2020-08-28 19:48:04	@tomasino	starts the current directory as a web server on whatever port
2020-08-28 19:48:28	@tomasino	i use that a lot for local dev stuff
2020-08-28 19:48:40	lukee	no, you take *any* existing app and attach it to this thing. Voila you have a dynamic webserver
2020-08-28 19:48:56	@tomasino	oh, interesting
2020-08-28 19:48:57	@tomasino	:)
2020-08-28 19:54:21	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 19:58:20	lukee	hah - found it: https://github.com/beefsack/webify
2020-08-28 19:58:41	companion_cube	heh, a CGI server
2020-08-28 20:00:07	lukee	yes, but I like the zero install/config part
2020-08-28 20:00:29	companion_cube	reminds me of websocketd
2020-08-28 20:01:30	lukee	we just need a gemini version of that for ad-hoc experimentation and hacking
2020-08-28 20:02:12	lukee	just dont ask about the security implications of doing this lol
2020-08-28 20:02:58	lukee	I suppose you still have to decide which app is going to receive the calls. Your call!
2020-08-28 20:33:35		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-28 20:38:51	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 20:41:12	admicos	woah i never realized it's been 10 days without any update to my page
2020-08-28 20:47:50	acdw	admicos: saaame
2020-08-28 20:48:07	acdw	I got caught up in other stuff and then saw I hadn't done anything since like, last friday?
2020-08-28 20:49:43	admicos	my motd archive has a single message for an entire week
2020-08-28 20:49:52	admicos	so much for it being the message of "the day"
2020-08-28 20:50:48	acdw	lolol
2020-08-28 20:50:57	acdw	slow news times i guess
2020-08-28 20:51:09	admicos	i mean, yeah i had to move in a very short notice, but i had my computer set up and connected half an hour after i stepped my foot into the house
2020-08-28 20:51:37	acdw	oh but if you were moving in, that makes sense -- you were busy!
2020-08-28 20:53:19	admicos	the move only accounts for the last 3 days, but fair enough i guess, shouldn't beat myself up that much :p
2020-08-28 20:53:44	acdw	:D
2020-08-28 20:56:17		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-28 21:12:39	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 21:16:20	makeworld	Alright I have a question about Amfora's feeds feature, which is coming along
2020-08-28 21:16:48	makeworld	The feed page organizes posts by day, similar to CAPCOM
2020-08-28 21:18:02	makeworld	Should the published/updated time be converted to the user's local time, then organized by date? Or should the date in the poster's time be used?
2020-08-28 21:18:49	acdw	hmm that's a good question
2020-08-28 21:19:05	makeworld	I'm leaning toward the former, because otherwise there can be disorienting situations where it looks like someone's posted something from the future
2020-08-28 21:19:10	acdw	if you *can*, you could make it an option, but if you don't want to bother, I think you should do the easier one
2020-08-28 21:19:27	acdw	That's a fair point. Tho I don't think it'll be too too jarring
2020-08-28 21:19:58	acdw	I know for me, when I read CAPCOM I don't even look at the dates.  I just skim until I think, "Oh I've seen that headline before"
2020-08-28 21:20:48	lukee	I would use the user's local time if it is easy to do so
2020-08-28 21:21:22	lukee	then something that was posted an hour ago, seems like it was posted an hour ago!
2020-08-28 21:21:39	acdw	you know that's really fair too. so yeah, I'd say that one
2020-08-28 21:22:00	lukee	but as acdw says, on the slow web, we don't worry too much about millisecond timing
2020-08-28 21:22:24	makeworld	Yeah
2020-08-28 21:22:46	makeworld	Neither option is difficult, I just have to choose
2020-08-28 21:22:57	acdw	first one then
2020-08-28 21:23:02	makeworld	What complicates things is that gemfeed sets all post times to UTC, so sometimes the dates are incorrect
2020-08-28 21:23:07	makeworld	Yeah, sounds good
2020-08-28 21:23:23	makeworld	I opened gemfeed's first issue, to hopefully fix that: https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemfeed/issues/1
2020-08-28 21:23:23	acdw	or convert everything to UTC and compare, then for display change it to user's local
2020-08-28 21:23:51	makeworld	Well that's kinda the same as converting to the user's timezone isn't it?
2020-08-28 21:23:53	lukee	so does amfora now incorporate gemfeed?
2020-08-28 21:24:17	makeworld	No, and gemfeed is for generating feeds anyway, not for aggregating them
2020-08-28 21:24:36	acdw	hmm i should set up a gemfeed for sites as well
2020-08-28 21:24:39	makeworld	I'm writing my own page display and aggregator, it works better with my existing code that way
2020-08-28 21:24:53	makeworld	Yeah for sure. Automate it for breadpunk.club!
2020-08-28 21:24:55	lukee	shouldnt you be able to tell from the timezone if it is UTC or Z+whatever?
2020-08-28 21:25:01	makeworld	Yes
2020-08-28 21:25:16	@tomasino	dates are just a tricky thing in general
2020-08-28 21:25:24	lukee	I mean the timezone of each post entry in any atom feed xml
2020-08-28 21:25:52	makeworld	Yeah, but gemfeed sets the timezone to UTC, even though I'm in a different one
2020-08-28 21:25:57	makeworld	Which messes up dates sometimes
2020-08-28 21:26:20	acdw	YUES
2020-08-28 21:26:31	makeworld	Sorry what? Lol
2020-08-28 21:26:36	acdw	s/YUES/YES
2020-08-28 21:26:44	acdw	to your thing about breadpunk.club
2020-08-28 21:26:46	acdw	:D
2020-08-28 21:26:49	makeworld	Ah yeah :)
2020-08-28 21:26:50	lukee	so you have to convert it back to local time - seems clear or am I missing something?
2020-08-28 21:26:58	makeworld	Just make sure they're linked somewhere so people can find them
2020-08-28 21:27:04	acdw	oh yeah, that :P
2020-08-28 21:27:13	makeworld	lukee: Yep, that's what I've decided to do
2020-08-28 21:27:20	easeout	wait, is it a problem that instants in time are expressed in UTC?
2020-08-28 21:27:30	makeworld	No
2020-08-28 21:27:32	lukee	so why do you need to fix gemfeed?
2020-08-28 21:27:51	@tomasino	i think it's confusing makeworld because their posts appear to be aggregating to the following day in UTC terms
2020-08-28 21:27:56	@tomasino	if i'm following
2020-08-28 21:28:18	easeout	to be fair dates and times are always confusing
2020-08-28 21:28:30	lukee	but by the time you convert back to the local time, it should be correct, no?
2020-08-28 21:28:33	@tomasino	this is why i just moved to iceland so i could be on UTC
2020-08-28 21:28:47	makeworld	lukee: Because while it might be August 28th in my timezone, the span of time that August 28th encompasses is different for each timezone. For example in some parts of the world it is August 29th right now (I think)
2020-08-28 21:28:58	makeworld	tomasino: Lol, the programmer's reason
2020-08-28 21:28:58	companion_cube	in Asia, yes
2020-08-28 21:29:00	acdw	tomasino: lol
2020-08-28 21:29:06	companion_cube	let's just all move to stardate
2020-08-28 21:29:15	acdw	how does stardate work anyway
2020-08-28 21:29:21	acdw	OMG we really should tho, b/c gemini
2020-08-28 21:29:25	makeworld	No new time systems please
2020-08-28 21:29:29	makeworld	Oh wait yeah lol
2020-08-28 21:29:41	admicos	or unix time
2020-08-28 21:29:47	makeworld	Although bespoke formats is definitely not the way of Gemini
2020-08-28 21:29:48	acdw	star. date.
2020-08-28 21:29:52	makeworld	+1 unix time
2020-08-28 21:29:58	companion_cube	problem is it just ignores relativity :-°
2020-08-28 21:30:06	acdw	I know unix time is what gemlog.blue uses
2020-08-28 21:30:09	acdw	I ... think
2020-08-28 21:30:11	lukee	I havent given this much thought, but what you are saying is someone literally can post from the future?
2020-08-28 21:30:14	acdw	for posts' urls
2020-08-28 21:30:24	lukee	(as far as clocks are concerned)
2020-08-28 21:30:26	@tomasino	swatch internet time?
2020-08-28 21:30:28	@tomasino	beats?
2020-08-28 21:30:48	@tomasino	937.974
2020-08-28 21:30:50	makeworld	lukee: It can appear like that to me. For example on CAPCOM I sometimes see a post date that is a day ahead of my timezone
2020-08-28 21:31:00	companion_cube	lukee: I'm replying to your post from the future
2020-08-28 21:31:06	companion_cube	your message*
2020-08-28 21:31:17	makeworld	admicos: The problem with Unix time is you need to have a database of leap seconds to add >:)
2020-08-28 21:31:38	admicos	let's ignore leap seconds then, if earth slows down earth slows down
2020-08-28 21:31:43	makeworld	Uh oh
2020-08-28 21:31:57	@tomasino	i used a 1 unit per day decimal date/time with an epoch of jan 1, 1AD for a journal for years
2020-08-28 21:32:06	lukee	I still dont get it. If you're timezone is at 1pm and I am 12pm and you make a post, my time is still 12pm when your post appears
2020-08-28 21:32:08	acdw	lukee: It can *look* like it, e.g. I'm in UTC-5, so if I post now saying, "It's 4:30 pm", the server might say it posted at 9:30 pm
2020-08-28 21:32:10	acdw	I think
2020-08-28 21:32:39	lukee	that's a seperate problem I think
2020-08-28 21:32:55	acdw	tomasino: I had a url scheme on my site for a while using "lifedays," or a counter of how many days I'd been alive when I made the post
2020-08-28 21:33:00	admicos	honestly i shouldn't get into all this time discussion, i sometimes back-date my posts for a single day because i "published" them around midnight
2020-08-28 21:33:00	acdw	it was pretty cool
2020-08-28 21:33:06	makeworld	lukee: CAPCOM uses UTC dates. So sometimes the UTC timezone has a different date than my timezone. This is the issue I am trying to avoid with Amfora.
2020-08-28 21:33:15	makeworld	*different current date
2020-08-28 21:33:36	makeworld	admicos: o h  n o
2020-08-28 21:33:42	@tomasino	i like the 1 unit per day thing. it's easy and when looking at time you're talking in cents & millis and it's also easy. 14.4minutes or 2.4 seconds per..
2020-08-28 21:33:44	lukee	I have the solution
2020-08-28 21:33:54	lukee	give the user the option and they can work it out :)
2020-08-28 21:34:17	@tomasino	if you do like astrobotany and use client certs to identify and save settings (local timezone) then you can adjust to show times relative to you
2020-08-28 21:34:18	makeworld	Nahh :)
2020-08-28 21:34:29	makeworld	It's a pretty niche option
2020-08-28 21:34:39	makeworld	I will just go with the former, converting to local time first, that is
2020-08-28 21:34:45	lukee	or, you could list both times
2020-08-28 21:34:53	@tomasino	you could also potentially add favorites or something, filters, whatnots
2020-08-28 21:35:05	@tomasino	hmm
2020-08-28 21:35:05	lukee	post x published 10pm your time, it was 3pm for the author
2020-08-28 21:35:43	acdw	I tihnk you should average both tiems
2020-08-28 21:35:53	@tomasino	haha
2020-08-28 21:36:00	@tomasino	or only display relative times
2020-08-28 21:36:03	@tomasino	36 hours ago
2020-08-28 21:36:21	makeworld	acdw: Please no
2020-08-28 21:36:22	makeworld	Lol
2020-08-28 21:36:25	lukee	Actually that isnt a bad system, you see it frequently
2020-08-28 21:36:31	lukee	3 mins ago
2020-08-28 21:36:36	lukee	2 days ago
2020-08-28 21:36:38	lukee	last week
2020-08-28 21:36:40	lukee	last month
2020-08-28 21:36:43	lukee	6 months ago
2020-08-28 21:36:51	makeworld	I don't want to do anything with higher resolution than the date because many feeds don't provide times, like gemfeed for example
2020-08-28 21:36:57	acdw	haha :D
2020-08-28 21:36:57	@tomasino	i'll use whatever you all make, but i don't see anything wrong with how it's working now
2020-08-28 21:37:06	makeworld	So a post from 3 hours ago will look like it was posted exactly at midnight
2020-08-28 21:37:11	@tomasino	UTC is fine. It's my time zone so i think it should be special.
2020-08-28 21:37:16	makeworld	Lol
2020-08-28 21:37:17	acdw	I'm in the same boat as tomasino -- whatever decision you make will be the decision
2020-08-28 21:37:21	acdw	Local Jupiter Time
2020-08-28 21:37:26	makeworld	Yeah, I've already decided :)
2020-08-28 21:37:27	lukee	doesnt iceland have summer daytime saving?
2020-08-28 21:37:31	makeworld	Just chatting now heh
2020-08-28 21:37:38	@tomasino	nope, no daylight savings crap here
2020-08-28 21:37:52	@tomasino	in teh summer it's always daylight anyway
2020-08-28 21:37:56	makeworld	Apparently it's actually bad for you
2020-08-28 21:37:56	@tomasino	in the winter it's always dark
2020-08-28 21:37:58	@tomasino	no point shifting
2020-08-28 21:38:01	makeworld	Lol
2020-08-28 21:38:11	makeworld	We still have it in Toronto though
2020-08-28 21:38:15	@tomasino	well stop that
2020-08-28 21:38:16	makeworld	*Canada
2020-08-28 21:38:20	@tomasino	the science is in and it's stupid
2020-08-28 21:38:23	makeworld	Working on it o7
2020-08-28 21:38:33	lukee	and here in UK where we like, invented time ;)
2020-08-28 21:38:39	makeworld	Haha I know. Old traditions die hard or whatever
2020-08-28 21:38:40	lukee	GMT and all that
2020-08-28 21:38:49	acdw	gah i hate daylight savings time sooo much
2020-08-28 21:39:02	makeworld	Something something colonialist
2020-08-28 21:39:07	acdw	best part of living in AZ was no DST
2020-08-28 21:39:32	@tomasino	GMT won out for reasons that weren't 100% ethnocentric. I mean, it's only one small blip in a long history of colonialism and downright evil, but hey... kudos
2020-08-28 21:39:53	makeworld	Yeah I was just kidding
2020-08-28 21:40:06	admicos	why is it "greenwich mean time" and not "greenwich nice time"
2020-08-28 21:40:19	makeworld	🤔
2020-08-28 21:40:19	acdw	omg lol
2020-08-28 21:40:21	@tomasino	hah
2020-08-28 21:40:24	admicos	ok please don't ban me
2020-08-28 21:40:30	acdw	I mean it's mostly greenwich tea time, right?
2020-08-28 21:40:43	makeworld	Of course
2020-08-28 21:40:45		michel has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-28 21:41:01	lukee	the best bit about greenwich is the ball on the stick at the top of the hill on the timeline
2020-08-28 21:41:13	acdw	wait what
2020-08-28 21:41:13	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 21:41:24	lukee	the ball was raised up and exactly on the hour it dropped
2020-08-28 21:41:24	acdw	that is some shit
2020-08-28 21:41:27	@tomasino	i want some tea now
2020-08-28 21:41:31	@tomasino	see what you've done
2020-08-28 21:41:37	acdw	you're welcome
2020-08-28 21:41:41	acdw	now i want tea too
2020-08-28 21:41:48	lukee	all the ships down at the bottom of the hill on the Thames could synchronise their clocks
2020-08-28 21:41:54	acdw	lukee: you mean like, the First Hour of Greenwich Mean Time? Or
2020-08-28 21:42:06	admicos	it was something regular, wasn't it?
2020-08-28 21:42:08	admicos	not a one-off thing
2020-08-28 21:42:08	acdw	oh was it like a red ball
2020-08-28 21:42:24	⚡	acdw picturing a red ball on a green hill Times Square Style
2020-08-28 21:42:45	admicos	the only reason i have any say in this discussion is that i watched citation needed a million times
2020-08-28 21:43:14	lukee	https://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/place/450876-royal-observatory-greenwich
2020-08-28 21:43:37	makeworld	Hey wait that reminds me
2020-08-28 21:43:40	lukee	it was done regularly as a service
2020-08-28 21:43:52	@tomasino	they cover the history of the royal observatory and GMT and stuff nicely in Cosmos too
2020-08-28 21:44:03	makeworld	The national radio (CBC) here still does a time synchronization beep every day at 1 PM
2020-08-28 21:44:06	makeworld	A relic
2020-08-28 21:44:19	acdw	Red Ball As a Service
2020-08-28 21:44:27	lukee	RBaaS
2020-08-28 21:44:30	makeworld	The ironic thing is that you listen over the internet it's delayed by almost exactly a minute
2020-08-28 21:44:33	admicos	acdw: isn't that just NTP?
2020-08-28 21:44:33	acdw	oh I want a synchronization beep
2020-08-28 21:44:40	acdw	admicos: I have no idea lol
2020-08-28 21:44:48	@tomasino	boops
2020-08-28 21:44:52	acdw	I know NTP is a thing I Need For Linux but I don't konw what it Is
2020-08-28 21:44:56	makeworld	acdw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Research_Council_Time_Signal
2020-08-28 21:44:57	admicos	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol
2020-08-28 21:45:00	acdw	makeworld :O
2020-08-28 21:45:01	lukee	The BBC still has its beloved pips
2020-08-28 21:45:07	@tomasino	make time sync, yarr
2020-08-28 21:45:07	acdw	aw yis
2020-08-28 21:45:26	makeworld	"Canada's longest running radio program" 😆
2020-08-28 21:45:27	acdw	since I got my x240 I've been loving the emacs system beeps, they're so pleasant
2020-08-28 21:45:58	@tomasino	https://www.businessinsider.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-the-time-on-your-android-phone-is-incorrect-2012-3?r=US&IR=T
2020-08-28 21:46:04	@tomasino	i think this is fixed now, though
2020-08-28 21:46:06	acdw	holy crap makeworld it's for 15-30 seconds?!
2020-08-28 21:46:20	acdw	of course NdGT would be all high and mighty about cellphone time
2020-08-28 21:46:23	makeworld	"As of May 2011, the length of the silence has been reduced to six seconds, with a soft click at the beginning of each second during the silence. "
2020-08-28 21:46:27	makeworld	I think it's shorter now
2020-08-28 21:46:39	makeworld	Yo I'm totally going to call this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Research_Council_Time_Signal#NRC_Telephone_Talking_Clock
2020-08-28 21:46:58	acdw	"Skip to 15 minutes, 20 seconds to hear Dr.Tyson explain it himself" -- so if I have an android I need to skip to 15 minutes, 5 seconds?
2020-08-28 21:47:11	acdw	oh taht's awesome
2020-08-28 21:47:52	makeworld	Ok calling now
2020-08-28 21:48:23	acdw	OMG I JUST CALLED IT THAT IS AWESOME
2020-08-28 21:48:47	acdw	my computer is like, 5 seconds fast
2020-08-28 21:48:53	@tomasino	:D
2020-08-28 21:49:04	makeworld	Hahaha might be a long distance charge for you!
2020-08-28 21:49:14	makeworld	But yeah I just called, pretty cool they still run that
2020-08-28 21:49:28	makeworld	acdw: I always check my clock accuracy by visiting time.si
2020-08-28 21:49:33	makeworld	* time.is
2020-08-28 21:49:45	@tomasino	cause obviously the correct time is in iceland
2020-08-28 21:49:45	acdw	oh boy I hope I don't gget a charge for like 500 CAD on my phone bill
2020-08-28 21:49:47	@tomasino	see, full circle
2020-08-28 21:49:50	acdw	what is that, like $10 USD?
2020-08-28 21:49:51	acdw	:P
2020-08-28 21:50:01	acdw	tomasino: LOL
2020-08-28 21:50:09	makeworld	You should have NTP running on your computer though. Debian and similar distros will install it by default, but if not you just need to install it and enable & start the systemd service
2020-08-28 21:50:15	acdw	"Your clock is 14.6 seconds ahead." dang
2020-08-28 21:50:20	makeworld	Yikess
2020-08-28 21:50:23	acdw	makeworld: thanks for the info, I'll make sure
2020-08-28 21:50:29	makeworld	Welcome!
2020-08-28 21:51:12	admicos	"Your clock is 9.7 seconds ahead."
2020-08-28 21:51:18	admicos	i don't know if i should trust this
2020-08-28 21:51:20	makeworld	Also yikes
2020-08-28 21:51:28	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/QMp.png
2020-08-28 21:51:30	acdw	admicos we are waay outta line
2020-08-28 21:51:32	@tomasino	my time is exact
2020-08-28 21:51:42	makeworld	It's always been correct for me. Like I've seen it out of date, and then ran the ntp daemon and saw it correct itself admicos
2020-08-28 21:51:49	acdw	omg tomasino stop flexxing so hard
2020-08-28 21:51:55	acdw	we get it you're in the Best Time
2020-08-28 21:51:58	@tomasino	hehhe
2020-08-28 21:52:08	⚡	tomasino is a time lord
2020-08-28 21:52:49	acdw	lucky
2020-08-28 21:52:51	@tomasino	"mary, did you know" is a terrible christmas song
2020-08-28 21:52:57	makeworld	Holey, 97 users here
2020-08-28 21:53:23	acdw	I kinda like "Mary did you know"
2020-08-28 21:53:42	acdw	my wife HATES the little drummer boy
2020-08-28 21:53:47	@tomasino	all versions?
2020-08-28 21:53:47	acdw	si that that title?
2020-08-28 21:53:53	acdw	the one I know
2020-08-28 21:53:54	@tomasino	even the bing crosby & david bowie one?
2020-08-28 21:54:06	acdw	now that one is dope af
2020-08-28 21:54:09	acdw	*I* like that one
2020-08-28 21:54:16	acdw	lemme ask her
2020-08-28 21:54:22	@tomasino	there are some really slow boring versions of the little drummer boy
2020-08-28 21:54:24	@tomasino	i'll grant that
2020-08-28 21:54:48	acdw	I like Good King Winceslas
2020-08-28 21:54:59	acdw	wait why are we talking about xmas songs?!
2020-08-28 21:55:11	@tomasino	cause i'm listening to christmas songs
2020-08-28 21:55:23	acdw	lol
2020-08-28 21:55:29	acdw	Christmas in August eh?
2020-08-28 21:55:36	acdw	Yeah she just hates little drummer boy
2020-08-28 21:55:46	@tomasino	i hate the beatles christmas songs
2020-08-28 21:55:47	acdw	Oh I like Do you see what I see as well
2020-08-28 21:55:58	admicos	with how the year's going so far christmas in august doesn't seem really out of place imo
2020-08-28 21:56:05	@tomasino	and feliz navidad
2020-08-28 21:56:12	acdw	the problem with christmas songs is this -- it's not that they're bad songs, per se, in fact a lot are well put-together
2020-08-28 21:56:17	acdw	:O Feliz Navidad is GREAT
2020-08-28 21:56:22	@tomasino	feliz navidad would be okay if it was just like once or twice, but it repeats FOREVER
2020-08-28 21:56:28	@tomasino	the exact same thing over and over
2020-08-28 21:56:31	lukee	Urgh no talking about Christmas yet please!
2020-08-28 21:56:42	@tomasino	we're not talking about christmas. just christmas music
2020-08-28 21:56:44	acdw	it's just that we're INUNDATED with them for 3 MONTHS until we want to DIE and then finally, it's over
2020-08-28 21:56:59	⚡	tomasino listens to christmas music year round
2020-08-28 21:57:05	companion_cube	acdw: yeah it's so bad
2020-08-28 21:57:06	acdw	your problem with FN is, I think, generally applicable to the entire genre of Christmas Music
2020-08-28 21:57:14	acdw	lukee: sorry, shall we change channels to #xmas?
2020-08-28 21:57:14	@tomasino	oh oh oh! i have a thing
2020-08-28 21:57:17	acdw	oh boy
2020-08-28 21:57:19	lukee	yes
2020-08-28 21:57:28	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE4shVkwqIk
2020-08-28 21:57:48	acdw	oh no
2020-08-28 21:57:48	@tomasino	this is so good
2020-08-28 21:57:58	acdw	I don't believe you
2020-08-28 21:58:06	@tomasino	you gotta try it! so so good
2020-08-28 21:58:06	@tomasino	haha
2020-08-28 21:58:13	companion_cube	itsatrap™
2020-08-28 21:58:42	@tomasino	vocals don't come in till 00:56
2020-08-28 22:00:15	@tomasino	i LOVE the part around 2:30
2020-08-28 22:00:18	lukee	it shows pop music doesnt try that hard with harmony
2020-08-28 22:00:41	lukee	3 to 5 chords and you've got it covered
2020-08-28 22:01:11	acdw	okay putting my headhpones on now
2020-08-28 22:01:14	@tomasino	yisss
2020-08-28 22:01:15	acdw	im' going to regret this
2020-08-28 22:01:20	@tomasino	probably!
2020-08-28 22:01:22	@tomasino	but in a good way
2020-08-28 22:01:26	lukee	definitely
2020-08-28 22:01:35	lukee	you will regret it
2020-08-28 22:02:26	acdw	OH JAYSUS CHREEST
2020-08-28 22:02:38	acdw	you know what this bops
2020-08-28 22:02:50	acdw	tomasino: when's the next time you're doing tilderadio? You should just play this the whole time
2020-08-28 22:02:51	@tomasino	see!?
2020-08-28 22:02:54	@tomasino	haha
2020-08-28 22:02:58	@tomasino	i'm doing my show sunday
2020-08-28 22:03:05	@tomasino	i ALMOST did a christmas show last month
2020-08-28 22:03:05	acdw	only b/c All I Want for Christmas is a fucking BOP
2020-08-28 22:03:12	acdw	Christmas in July
2020-08-28 22:03:16	@tomasino	exactly
2020-08-28 22:03:25	@tomasino	i was soooo close to it, but then i decided against it last minute
2020-08-28 22:03:35	@tomasino	only the second show and i didn't want to confuse the style so early
2020-08-28 22:03:40	acdw	i mean that's the only acceptable time
2020-08-28 22:03:41		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-28 22:03:58	@tomasino	once you're done that you can cleanse your palette with some Rick Astley - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXaJGBLRA_o
2020-08-28 22:04:28		michel has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.4)
2020-08-28 22:04:39	acdw	ruick astly is so good -- I never minded being rick rolled b/c that song is so good
2020-08-28 22:04:49	@tomasino	he's pretty incredible
2020-08-28 22:04:53	@tomasino	hear his titanium cover?
2020-08-28 22:04:59	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 22:05:01	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_vnEHDjfZ8
2020-08-28 22:05:03	acdw	YES it was rad
2020-08-28 22:05:29	acdw	my favorite thing is how Astley is apparently just a Youtuber now
2020-08-28 22:05:39	acdw	like, he's got your standard Youtuber setup, not a professional thing
2020-08-28 22:05:47	@tomasino	heh, yeah
2020-08-28 22:05:55	@tomasino	he just put out a new album
2020-08-28 22:05:58	acdw	this video gives me strong chocoalte rain vibes
2020-08-28 22:05:59	@tomasino	i haven't checked it out yet though
2020-08-28 22:06:12	acdw	I figured -- he's been everywhere lately
2020-08-28 22:06:22	acdw	oh so did Bright Eyes if you're into that kind of thing
2020-08-28 22:06:25	@tomasino	here's one from the new album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bya_tjymfuk
2020-08-28 22:06:27	acdw	haven't listened to it either
2020-08-28 22:06:56	acdw	you know, have you ever seen Rick Astley and Bright Eyes in the same room together? 🤔
2020-08-28 22:07:07	@tomasino	haha, i have not!
2020-08-28 22:07:14	acdw	curious
2020-08-28 22:07:34	@tomasino	come to think of it, i've never seen Mariah Carey and Thom Yorke in the same room either
2020-08-28 22:08:00	acdw	curiouser
2020-08-28 22:08:12	acdw	well, we have the workings of a new conspiracy theory on our hands
2020-08-28 22:08:35	acdw	this new one's not bad
2020-08-28 22:08:39	acdw	the astley
2020-08-28 22:08:52	@tomasino	oooh, should put this one on 1436 files!
2020-08-28 22:09:12	acdw	I like how this guy has had the same look since 85
2020-08-28 22:09:19	@tomasino	gopher://1436.ninja/1/1436_Files
2020-08-28 22:09:20	acdw	what's 1436 files?
2020-08-28 22:09:23	acdw	aw ya
2020-08-28 22:09:41	acdw	omg awesome
2020-08-28 22:10:22	@tomasino	gopher is a happy place
2020-08-28 22:10:53	acdw	i need to get over there more
2020-08-28 22:11:20	acdw	best conspiracy theory I ever came up with was how the Overton effect is caused by the writers of Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer
2020-08-28 22:11:27	acdw	I left it around here somewhere ...
2020-08-28 22:11:29	@tomasino	YES
2020-08-28 22:11:35	@tomasino	upload that one for sure!
2020-08-28 22:11:52	acdw	hehe
2020-08-28 22:11:53	@tomasino	rudolph is such a messed up song
2020-08-28 22:11:57	acdw	it IS
2020-08-28 22:12:06	acdw	oh shit speaking of coming back around ....
2020-08-28 22:12:13	@tomasino	heheh
2020-08-28 22:12:20	@tomasino	all things lead to Christmas in Iceland
2020-08-28 22:12:33	@tomasino	after all, it's always the right time here (for Christmas)
2020-08-28 22:13:13	acdw	well here's something different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyUMe-XPt8Y&feature=youtu.be
2020-08-28 22:13:30	@tomasino	ahh, i see you went down that guy's yotuube hole
2020-08-28 22:13:34	@tomasino	it's deep. There's some real gems
2020-08-28 22:13:55	acdw	lol my wife did
2020-08-28 22:15:32	@tomasino	i think this one is the most radio-playable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3jkmduoVQE
2020-08-28 22:16:41	acdw	tomasino: FOUND IT https://gitlab.com/acdw/acdw.net/-/blob/master/src/10148.blog
2020-08-28 22:17:45	@tomasino	yes yes yes
2020-08-28 22:17:56	@tomasino	now write it not as conjecture but as fact and get that bad boy onto 1436
2020-08-28 22:18:46	acdw	o7
2020-08-28 22:20:09	@tomasino	gonna be honest... i've written at least 2 things on here and i don't remember which
2020-08-28 22:21:12		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-28 22:22:18	acdw	lol ... or ~have~ you
2020-08-28 22:23:29	@tomasino	hehe
2020-08-28 22:29:30	acdw	tomasino: this is the absolute best one tho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdohpTAFQqE
2020-08-28 22:30:25	@tomasino	hahahaha
2020-08-28 22:30:56	@tomasino	reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy_y9yOrgxk
2020-08-28 22:32:20	acdw	lol that's quality
2020-08-28 22:38:54	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 22:42:02		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-28 23:48:49		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-28 23:53:03	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-28 23:54:52		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-08-29 02:12:49		dmolliae has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-29 02:23:39	▬▬▶	emily has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 03:05:54	▬▬▶	catman has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 03:06:08		catman has left #gemini ("WeeChat 2.8")
2020-08-29 04:27:33	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 04:29:32	ℹ 	swiftmandolin is now known as swift
2020-08-29 05:41:59		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-29 05:43:35	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 07:23:04		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-29 08:21:06		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-29 08:23:13	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 08:34:31		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-29 08:36:38	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 09:44:40		lain has quit (quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-08-29 09:44:56	▬▬▶	lain has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 10:48:27	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 13:35:05	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 13:38:34	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 13:48:08	▬▬▶	dmolliae has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 13:53:50	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 14:04:49		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-29 14:14:00		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-29 14:26:46	paulgorman	Does anyone known if the proxy.vulpes.one code is open source?
2020-08-29 14:33:55	felix	I never even tried it. :D
2020-08-29 14:34:07	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 14:37:07	felix	And right now it doesn't seem to work for me.
2020-08-29 14:38:26	paulgorman	Hah, yeah. Looks like they're having a hiccup.
2020-08-29 14:46:14	xfnw	are there any open source gemini proxies?
2020-08-29 14:53:47	felix	You know, that's odd. The only other one seems to be portal.mozz.us, and there's no mention of source code.
2020-08-29 14:56:24	felix	The author of https://sr.ht/~alexwennerberg/flounder/ also calls it a portal, but not in the same sense.
2020-08-29 15:04:52	kevinsan	I have a bash/awk proxy that you're welcome to use - it's hacky, but it seems to work for my own pages.
2020-08-29 15:05:30	kevinsan	https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/gemini  see files http/htdocs/cgi-bin/proxy.sh and cgi_assets/proxy_html.awk
2020-08-29 15:07:00	kevinsan	I think those two files are all you need. You will need to alter with my horrible style settings...
2020-08-29 15:08:16	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 15:13:48	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-29 15:19:09		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-29 15:25:06	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 15:29:26	felix	Hello!
2020-08-29 15:41:58	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 18:13:35		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-29 18:18:46	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 18:19:46	lukee	hi all
2020-08-29 18:20:40	lukee	I'm discovering the fun of gemini proxies
2020-08-29 18:21:56	Cadey	i feel tempted to make the cloudflare of gemini space
2020-08-29 18:21:59	lukee	as in proxies of the form: world -> gemini proxy -> gemini client
2020-08-29 18:23:14	lukee	I never really understood what the point of cloudflare was, apart from getting in the way
2020-08-29 18:24:14	Cadey	the biggest thing it does is DDOS protection
2020-08-29 18:25:20	lukee	and it just monitors the back and forth of packets?
2020-08-29 18:32:15	admicos	cloudflare is basically a glorified cache
2020-08-29 18:32:19	admicos	with big pipes
2020-08-29 18:33:20	lukee	so a gemini cloudflare would be a sort of "download geminispace to my cache" kind of server
2020-08-29 18:33:57	admicos	yes, but occasionally you need to prompt users with a captcha instead of the page they want
2020-08-29 18:35:04	lukee	but in gemini that would mean the resource is not idempotent
2020-08-29 18:35:20	enpo	I guess that would be part of the anti-DDOS technology
2020-08-29 18:35:23	lukee	sometimes you get the real thing, sometimes you get something else
2020-08-29 18:35:33	lukee	yuk
2020-08-29 18:36:23	lukee	it would break GUS?
2020-08-29 18:37:22	enpo	We once used Cloudflare to get a free TLS-cert. We were using a status page service which you had to pay extra (upgrade to a higher package/plan) in order to get HTTPS on the status page
2020-08-29 18:38:31	enpo	But that is kind of their thing...: You want free stuff? Use us :p
2020-08-29 18:39:15	▬▬▶	dmolliae_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 18:39:17	wallet	pls dont import captchas to gemini too
2020-08-29 18:39:58		dmolliae has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-29 18:43:02	CommunistWolf	destroy all cloudflare
2020-08-29 18:44:58	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 18:47:07	⚡	kensanata waves
2020-08-29 18:47:10	lukee	what about gemini proxies where you ask a gemini server for a resource somewhere else?
2020-08-29 18:48:33	kensanata	like Wikipedia mirrors and the like?
2020-08-29 18:48:50	lukee	yes
2020-08-29 18:49:01	kensanata	Or Gemini-Gemini proxies...
2020-08-29 18:49:04	lukee	well actually no
2020-08-29 18:49:17	lukee	I mean ones that operate at the protocol layer
2020-08-29 18:49:38	lukee	rather than ones that translate into their own namespace
2020-08-29 18:49:42	lukee	like agena
2020-08-29 18:50:21	kensanata	I don't know what that means. I wrote a gemini server that accepts requests that aren't on the same domain/port and which fetches it for you. So, a Gemini proxy?
2020-08-29 18:50:44	lukee	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/agena
2020-08-29 18:51:16	lukee	ok kensanata, I think your one is the kind I have in mind
2020-08-29 18:51:35	kensanata	The only documentation on that link is "Gemini-to-Gopher proxy written in Python" which isn't quite what my code does...
2020-08-29 18:51:54	lukee	I know, but is it that type of proxy?
2020-08-29 18:52:27	lukee	For example there is another wikipedia proxy of sorts, which presents a gemini front end to wikipedia
2020-08-29 18:52:39	lukee	but it has its own urls
2020-08-29 18:52:39	lukee	gemini://wp.pitr.ca/
2020-08-29 18:53:10	lukee	I suppose that one on wp.pitr.ca is a mirror service, not a proxy
2020-08-29 18:56:39	kensanata	Wikipedia says: "In computer networking, a proxy server is a server application or appliance that acts as an intermediary for requests from clients seeking resources from servers that provide those resources." I think this is sufficiently broad to accomodate a lot of uses. :)
2020-08-29 18:56:49	lukee	yea
2020-08-29 18:56:55	lukee	yea->yeah
2020-08-29 18:58:43	lukee	so your server will fetch remote resources on a different scheme or server, as per section 2 of the spec?
2020-08-29 18:59:46	kensanata	I don't remember section 2 of the spec. I wrote my server for a very specific use case, so I'd be surprised if it matched what the spec says.
2020-08-29 19:00:27	lukee	Gemini requests are a single CRLF-terminated line with the following structure: <URL><CR><LF>
2020-08-29 19:00:35	lukee	<URL> is a UTF-8 encoded absolute URL, of maximum length 1024 bytes. If the scheme of the URL is not specified, a scheme of gemini:// is implied.
2020-08-29 19:00:41	lukee	Sending an absolute URL instead of only a path or selector is effectively equivalent to building in a HTTP "Host" header. It permits virtual hosting of multiple Gemini domains on the same IP address. It also allows servers to optionally act as proxies. Including schemes other than gemini:// in requests allows servers to optionally act as protocol-translating gateways to e.g. fetch gopher resources over Gemini. Proxying is optional and the vast
2020-08-29 19:00:41	lukee	majority of servers are expected to only respond to requests for resources at their own domain(s).
2020-08-29 19:01:33	lukee	"protocol translating gateways" I think is the specific term used.
2020-08-29 19:01:52	kensanata	Yeah, so here's the difference: my server also does port "normalisation" so if all the hosts it support are running on port 1965, then my server fits the bill.
2020-08-29 19:03:18	lukee	do you just serve the same bytes and content type the back end sends for each request, or do you transform the content at all?
2020-08-29 19:03:22	kensanata	So I can query localhost:1965 for gemini://alexschroeder.ch and it will get gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1968 if so configured, where as the spec would say that in this case I would have to query localhost:1965 for gemini://alexschroeder.ch:1968. That's the difference I know of.
2020-08-29 19:03:31	kensanata	I just print the response as is.
2020-08-29 19:03:51	kensanata	If you can read Perl, I can point you at specific code, if you're interested.
2020-08-29 19:04:15	lukee	its been a while, but I'd be interested, thanks
2020-08-29 19:05:37	kensanata	Sure. README: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-dispatch/about/ line 248 is where I handle known hosts: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-dispatch/tree/gemini-dispatch.pl#n248 and this is the simple requesting and printing of that response: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/gemini-dispatch/tree/gemini-dispatch.pl#n216
2020-08-29 19:05:55	lukee	BTW I dont think the spec says you would have to change the port
2020-08-29 19:06:28	kensanata	Yeah, the port changing was for my specific use case.
2020-08-29 19:07:31	kensanata	My problem was that I had one machine and three different kinds of Gemini servers wanting to listen on port 1965 for different domain names. So I had them listen on different ports and this proxy server was supposed to forward requests to the various ports depending on the hostname requested.
2020-08-29 19:07:51	kensanata	Now I no longer use it.
2020-08-29 19:11:47	lukee	thanks for that - if I understand it correctly it effectively presents a single port front end to a number of servers that have different ports?
2020-08-29 19:12:18	lukee	and it is just for gemini:// scheme requests
2020-08-29 19:12:50	kensanata	Yes.
2020-08-29 19:14:11	kensanata	Changing that to not meddle with ports would be just a few lines to change. If that would help you in some way, I'd be happy to make that change (since I no longer use the code, we can morph it's use case to whatever we want).
2020-08-29 19:14:22	lukee	I'm interested in cross-protocol proxies as well
2020-08-29 19:14:59	lukee	Actually I'm secretly building the thing I'm curious about. Work in progress!
2020-08-29 19:15:04	kensanata	Aah!
2020-08-29 19:15:40	kensanata	Yeah. At least http and https would be easy to do, as long as you have some sort of html-to-gemini code.
2020-08-29 19:15:46	lukee	:)
2020-08-29 19:16:24	kensanata	If you do, I'm interested in how you handle dense hypertext such as Wikipedia! That's something I really struggled with. In the end I opted for simply dropping most links.
2020-08-29 19:17:24	kensanata	https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-06-19_Wikipedia_via_Gemini
2020-08-29 19:19:47	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/s1wOPFY
2020-08-29 19:20:32	lukee	two elements: 1. in place citation markers
2020-08-29 19:20:48	lukee	2: wire up the citation markers with the actual links
2020-08-29 19:21:01	lukee	(that is a client nicety to reduce noise)
2020-08-29 19:22:26	lukee	and configure all the things - some users will like it clean, others want the detail
2020-08-29 19:26:20	kensanata	I see.
2020-08-29 19:26:50		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-29 19:28:27	lukee	its a general solution to in place hypertext rendering
2020-08-29 19:28:42	makeworld	lukee: Are you talking about local proxies, like for full-text search, or caching?
2020-08-29 19:28:57	makeworld	Like was discussed on the ML a little while ago
2020-08-29 19:29:16	lukee	not exactly
2020-08-29 19:29:44	lukee	but I am using the proxy -p flag in gemget to test it!
2020-08-29 19:30:12	lukee	the idea is of a cross-protocol gemini proxy
2020-08-29 19:30:18	lukee	like Agena
2020-08-29 19:30:27	lukee	which is gopher->gemini
2020-08-29 19:39:36	makeworld	Ah okay
2020-08-29 19:39:50	makeworld	Glad that gemget flag can be useful in that case though! Let me know if you find any issues.
2020-08-29 19:40:05	lukee	makeworld: BTW I'm getting problems compiling gemget
2020-08-29 19:40:11	makeworld	Oh yeah?
2020-08-29 19:40:23	lukee	let me try again...
2020-08-29 19:40:34	⚡	lukee scuttles off 
2020-08-29 19:41:07	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 19:42:10	lukee	PS C:\Users\lukee\Desktop\programming\projects\go> go get github.com\makeworld-the-better-one\gemget
2020-08-29 19:42:10	lukee	# github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemget
2020-08-29 19:42:10	lukee	src\github.com\makeworld-the-better-one\gemget\network.go:127:21: client.FetchWithHost undefined (type *gemini.Client has no field or method FetchWithHost)
2020-08-29 19:42:10	lukee	PS C:\Users\lukee\Desktop\programming\projects\go>
2020-08-29 19:42:38	makeworld	Sounds like you haven't updated your deps
2020-08-29 19:42:44	lukee	(PS is windows powershell prompt)
2020-08-29 19:43:02	lukee	what do I need to do?
2020-08-29 19:43:09	makeworld	How did you install the project, with git clone or go get?
2020-08-29 19:43:14	lukee	the latter
2020-08-29 19:43:18	makeworld	Oh nevermind, I see
2020-08-29 19:43:19	makeworld	Yeah
2020-08-29 19:43:37	makeworld	K one sec
2020-08-29 19:45:28	makeworld	Try adding @v1.5.0 to the end
2020-08-29 19:45:32	makeworld	Of the go get command
2020-08-29 19:46:11	lukee	go: cannot use path@version syntax in GOPATH mode
2020-08-29 19:46:32	makeworld	Hmmph
2020-08-29 19:47:09	easeout	can you find out which version of gemget you did get?
2020-08-29 19:47:19	makeworld	Oh it's cause you don't have GO111MODULE=on lukee
2020-08-29 19:47:30	makeworld	easeout: gemget --version
2020-08-29 19:47:58	lukee	the source says var version = "1.5.0"
2020-08-29 19:48:29	lukee	sorry I'm still learning the ropes with Go
2020-08-29 19:48:32	makeworld	All good
2020-08-29 19:48:56	makeworld	But in general it's good to have that set to on, but also in the install command on the README it will usually tell you if you need that set
2020-08-29 19:48:57	lukee	what do I need to do?
2020-08-29 19:49:12	makeworld	I'm not sure exactly how setting variables in powershell works
2020-08-29 19:49:22	makeworld	Try running GO111MODULE=on go get github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemget
2020-08-29 19:49:42	makeworld	And then if that doesn't work you can try adding the @v1.5.0 thing to the end
2020-08-29 19:49:54	lukee	no I think the syntax is unix only
2020-08-29 19:50:27	lukee	I tried adding the suffix but it didnt like it (see above)
2020-08-29 19:50:49	makeworld	Yes but you need to set the env var, that's why the suffix didn't work
2020-08-29 19:50:57	makeworld	It's not a windows issue
2020-08-29 19:51:08	kensanata	Does anyone have a copy of Vulpes source code?
2020-08-29 19:51:12	Cadey	do you want me to make a binary for you?
2020-08-29 19:51:23	makeworld	https://stackoverflow.com/a/56249926/7361270
2020-08-29 19:51:52	Cadey	lukee: alternatively: go env -w GO111MODULE=on
2020-08-29 19:52:55	lukee	Thanks Cadey and makeworld - it worked!
2020-08-29 19:53:04	Cadey	that will set the environment variable correctly
2020-08-29 19:53:07	makeworld	Thanks Cadey
2020-08-29 19:53:10	makeworld	Glad it worked!
2020-08-29 19:53:36	lukee	makeworld - can you put that in the gemget readme?
2020-08-29 19:53:46	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemget#installation
2020-08-29 19:53:48	makeworld	It is :)
2020-08-29 19:53:55	makeworld	Just aimed at Unix users
2020-08-29 19:54:18	makeworld	You want me to add the Windows version?
2020-08-29 19:54:24	lukee	yes but the incantation from Cadey is cross platform!
2020-08-29 19:54:41	makeworld	Ha yeah okay
2020-08-29 19:54:44	lukee	as I understand it
2020-08-29 19:55:10	makeworld	Yeah
2020-08-29 19:55:17	makeworld	You ran that as two separate commands right?
2020-08-29 19:55:23	lukee	yes
2020-08-29 19:55:25	makeworld	Like the go env one first, then the go get?
2020-08-29 19:55:26	makeworld	Yeah ok
2020-08-29 19:56:15	makeworld	I'll add that to Amfora
2020-08-29 19:56:19	makeworld	too
2020-08-29 19:56:53	lukee	Re: amfora. I saw the sorry response about the TUI library!
2020-08-29 19:57:49	makeworld	You mean about the windows pasting?
2020-08-29 19:57:53	lukee	yes
2020-08-29 19:58:58	lukee	it just seems such a strange bug to have not been fixed yet
2020-08-29 19:59:13	lukee	(by the TUI library that is!)
2020-08-29 20:00:02	@tomasino	Cadey: how's the wpm
2020-08-29 20:01:00	makeworld	The possible workaround looks annoying, so it's stayed unimplemented I'm afraid
2020-08-29 20:01:19	lukee	yes its a bit of a nasty hacl
2020-08-29 20:01:24	lukee	hacl->hack
2020-08-29 20:02:10	lukee	I'm mainly using amfora when on a remote terminal, but it means its pretty awkward to provide you feedback on amfora on Windows
2020-08-29 20:02:46	makeworld	Ha well that's okay
2020-08-29 20:03:15	lukee	maybe just document it as a known problem
2020-08-29 20:04:50	makeworld	Like on the readme?
2020-08-29 20:05:03	lukee	yes
2020-08-29 20:05:17	lukee	sorry I seem to be giving you readme edits today
2020-08-29 20:05:32	@tomasino	I added a readme to my GitHub profile finally!
2020-08-29 20:06:03	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino
2020-08-29 20:07:03	lukee	do you take pull requests?
2020-08-29 20:07:47	makeworld	lukee: Yep! I can also make the edit if that's what you're talking about
2020-08-29 20:08:02	Cadey	tomasino: 10-20, still in purgatory
2020-08-29 20:08:14	@tomasino	That's a rough place
2020-08-29 20:08:17	@tomasino	You can do it!!!
2020-08-29 20:08:19	makeworld	tomasino: I love it, nice idea
2020-08-29 20:08:21	lukee	makeworld: great!
2020-08-29 20:08:35	@tomasino	Thanks, makeworld
2020-08-29 20:08:44	makeworld	Are you going to make one to document that bug, or are you talking about something else? lukee
2020-08-29 20:09:18	makeworld	tomasino: What's the 216, 72 names of god thing?
2020-08-29 20:09:44	lukee	tomasino: do you take pull requests ;)
2020-08-29 20:09:58	@tomasino	https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gevurah
2020-08-29 20:10:06	@tomasino	Sure, lukee!
2020-08-29 20:10:46	lukee	it would be a nice way to upgrade oneself to merge a pull request on ones own readme
2020-08-29 20:10:50	@tomasino	216 info in that wiki link
2020-08-29 20:11:38	makeworld	Are you going to make one to document that bug, or are you talking about something else? lukee
2020-08-29 20:11:54	Cadey	tomasino: one keystroke at a time :)
2020-08-29 20:11:57	lukee	makeworld: crossed wires I think here.
2020-08-29 20:12:08	@tomasino	Tappity taps
2020-08-29 20:12:26	makeworld	Oh shoot I see
2020-08-29 20:12:33	makeworld	Ok I will edit the readme lol
2020-08-29 20:12:46	lukee	makeworld: yes if you would consider a new "Known problems" section of the readme, it could help future users
2020-08-29 20:12:55	makeworld	Yep, will add
2020-08-29 20:13:21	@tomasino	If you wanna PR my profile: https://github.com/jamestomasino/jamestomasino
2020-08-29 20:13:40	@tomasino	The Makefile will generate the readme 
2020-08-29 20:14:49	lukee	I love the readme BTW, but the exit status is logically wrong perhaps?
2020-08-29 20:15:14	lukee	for example 42 seems to be a success code, but you say errors are returns > 0
2020-08-29 20:15:35	@tomasino	I contain multitudes! Much of it is insightful and incorrect
2020-08-29 20:16:08	lukee	I spend too much of my life reviewing things. I'm not nit picking!
2020-08-29 20:16:12	@tomasino	Heehee
2020-08-29 20:16:17	@tomasino	It's all fun
2020-08-29 20:16:45	@tomasino	I may add a pull request for a -y switch and leave it unmerged
2020-08-29 20:17:19	@tomasino	Title will be "and sometimes Y"
2020-08-29 20:17:42	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora#known-bugs
2020-08-29 20:18:03	lukee	is james_tomasino a text based app?
2020-08-29 20:18:40	lukee	makeworld: thanks!
2020-08-29 20:19:10	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 20:20:06	kensanata	tomasino: I love that format! :D
2020-08-29 20:20:28	@tomasino	Thanks!
2020-08-29 20:20:44		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-29 20:20:56	@tomasino	I had it as jamestomasino for a bit, but I added the underscore later for readability
2020-08-29 20:21:01	@tomasino	I may change it back
2020-08-29 20:21:06	easeout	ha. manpage format is classy
2020-08-29 20:21:16	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 20:21:52	@tomasino	roff ftw
2020-08-29 20:21:59	xfnw	groff++
2020-08-29 20:22:07	lukee	There need to be some notes on Compilation
2020-08-29 20:22:08	kensanata	Mine is lame in comparison. https://github.com/kensanata/
2020-08-29 20:23:32	kensanata	tomasino: Is "If your professional needs touch digital marketing" correct? Sometimes I'm not too sure about my English.
2020-08-29 20:23:57	@tomasino	It works colloquially
2020-08-29 20:24:13	kensanata	Interesting.
2020-08-29 20:25:16	@tomasino	I wouldn't use it on a real resume, for sure
2020-08-29 20:25:23	kensanata	My first reading was: "If you have a professional, and he needs Touch Digital Marketing, ..." and I wondered: what the hell is "touch digital marketing" – something from the Urban Dictionary‽
2020-08-29 20:25:33	kensanata	LOL
2020-08-29 20:26:10	@tomasino	"Professional needs" being the subject
2020-08-29 20:26:11	Cadey	https://github.com/Xe
2020-08-29 20:26:19		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-29 20:26:20	Cadey	this is me
2020-08-29 20:26:50	@tomasino	That's a nice one
2020-08-29 20:26:57	@tomasino	Gets the relevant info across well
2020-08-29 20:27:19	@tomasino	And your websites have so much to say already it's good to direct folks there
2020-08-29 20:28:34	Cadey	i should really link my itch.io and patreon there
2020-08-29 20:28:57	@tomasino	$$$
2020-08-29 20:33:32	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 20:33:39		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-29 20:34:09	kensanata	Is "Be well, Creator." a reference to something?
2020-08-29 20:37:41	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 20:37:43		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-29 20:40:21	Cadey	kensanata: it's a reference to a sudden moment of clarity i had during my shamanism bender
2020-08-29 20:43:33	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-29 20:47:01		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-29 21:56:47	lukee	makeworld: how to I set amfora to use a proxy?
2020-08-29 22:30:58		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-29 22:35:46	makeworld	lukee: Still around?
2020-08-29 22:36:25	lukee	hi
2020-08-29 22:36:25	makeworld	Make sure you've built from master, as this isn't in v1.4.0. And then set proxy = "example.com:1234" in the config.toml, under the a-general section
2020-08-29 22:37:05	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/blob/164ed98/default-config.toml#L55-L59
2020-08-29 22:37:05	lukee	yes thanks. I got as far as adding an entry into config.toml, but I cant get it working with my proxy
2020-08-29 22:37:14	makeworld	What happens?
2020-08-29 22:37:16	lukee	but I can get gemget to work with the proxy
2020-08-29 22:37:34	makeworld	Oh like you're trying to proxy http requests?
2020-08-29 22:37:35	lukee	its a proxy for http urls
2020-08-29 22:37:39	makeworld	Yeah ok
2020-08-29 22:37:46	lukee	it tries to launch the browser
2020-08-29 22:37:49	makeworld	The Amfora proxy isn't really designed for that
2020-08-29 22:37:56	makeworld	It's for a gemini only proxy
2020-08-29 22:38:03	makeworld	Like how Firefox has an HTTP proxy
2020-08-29 22:38:10	lukee	no, the proxy is a gemini proxy
2020-08-29 22:38:18	lukee	for http end points
2020-08-29 22:38:30	makeworld	I know but the Amfora proxy is for a gemini <-> gemini proxy
2020-08-29 22:38:43	makeworld	Like how the Firefox proxy setting is for an http <-> proxy
2020-08-29 22:38:54	makeworld	* http <-> http
2020-08-29 22:38:57	lukee	maybe I'm not being clear
2020-08-29 22:39:08	lukee	the proxy is a gemini proxy on 1965
2020-08-29 22:39:13	lukee	it speaks gemini
2020-08-29 22:39:26	lukee	but it can accept requests for http urls
2020-08-29 22:39:39	makeworld	Yes, which is not what the Amfora proxy setting is for
2020-08-29 22:39:47	lukee	and why not :)
2020-08-29 22:40:02	lukee	gemget is fine with it
2020-08-29 22:40:11	makeworld	The Amfora proxy setting is for sending gemini requests for gus.guru through your-server.com instead
2020-08-29 22:41:42	lukee	what I want is that all requests go to some proxy rather than directly to the server
2020-08-29 22:42:04	lukee	which is what the gemget one does
2020-08-29 22:42:46	makeworld	Yeah, but any non-gemini URLs are kinda by definition external to Amfora
2020-08-29 22:43:44	lukee	but if it is talking to a gemini server, they are in fact gemini
2020-08-29 22:44:36	makeworld	I know, but like should there be a setting to make a list for each scheme? Like should gopher links go through a different proxy?
2020-08-29 22:44:55	makeworld	Like maybe there should be an optional mapping of scheme to proxy?
2020-08-29 22:45:06	lukee	yes - they can go via Agena which does this
2020-08-29 22:45:25	lukee	For example the client diohsc has per-scheme proxy options: gemini://gemini.thegonz.net/diohsc/README.md
2020-08-29 22:46:06	lukee	so you can have gemini urls go directly to the source server, gopher urls go to agena, http urls...
2020-08-29 22:47:45	makeworld	Hmm okay
2020-08-29 22:49:32	makeworld	I don't see the mention of proxy options on that page you linked
2020-08-29 22:49:45	makeworld	Nvm
2020-08-29 22:50:09	makeworld	Okay I'll make an issue for this, but it probably won't be in v1.5.0
2020-08-29 22:50:34	lukee	AV-98 (solderpunk's client) uses Agena so it can browse gopher urls
2020-08-29 22:50:50	makeworld	Yeah
2020-08-29 22:51:06	lukee	the diohsc page mentions: "Facilities to invoke external commands and use per-scheme proxies."
2020-08-29 22:51:15	makeworld	Yeah I found that
2020-08-29 22:52:56		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-29 22:52:56	lukee	Martin Bays, the author of diohsc confirmed it - he uses a simple proxy by wrapping curl: https://repo.or.cz/diohsc.git/tree/HEAD:/other/curlproxy
2020-08-29 22:54:07	makeworld	I was thinking these proxies would be gemini proxy servers, not commands
2020-08-29 22:54:35	lukee	I'm just trying to compile diohsc on my machine. But its taking ages to install Haskell :(
2020-08-29 22:55:40	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/80
2020-08-29 22:55:46	makeworld	K I gtg now, see you
2020-08-29 22:55:56	lukee	ok thanks
2020-08-29 23:04:45		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-29 23:33:09		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-30 00:14:03	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 00:17:58		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 00:18:03		peterbb has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 02:28:26		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-30 03:42:21	▬▬▶	dmolliae has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 03:43:05		dmolliae_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 03:46:02	epoch	speaking of gemini proxies...
2020-08-30 03:48:35		tiwesdaeg has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-30 03:49:10	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 03:49:10	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-08-30 04:21:10		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 04:23:18	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 06:25:44	▬▬▶	julienxx_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 06:25:44		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-08-30 06:55:07	▬▬▶	dmolliae_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 06:58:43		dmolliae has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 08:48:11	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 10:07:26		bard has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 10:12:15		djph_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 10:13:39	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 10:20:12		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 10:27:07	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 10:58:36		djph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 11:06:53	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 11:57:36	▬▬▶	flake has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 12:21:24		dmolliae_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 12:22:51	▬▬▶	dmolliae has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 12:38:55		erin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 12:41:10	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 13:20:27		pekka20 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2020-08-30 13:25:36		companion_cube has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-30 13:28:52	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 13:31:21	felix	So, I started writing an overview of the small web / small internet.
2020-08-30 13:31:32	felix	It mentions Gemini among other things.
2020-08-30 13:36:24	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 13:36:57	lukee	hi felix
2020-08-30 13:37:07	felix	Hello!
2020-08-30 13:37:52	lukee	you're writing a post in geminispace or for the wider web audience?
2020-08-30 13:40:34	felix	The latter. Sorry about that.
2020-08-30 13:40:45	lukee	no need to apologies, just curious
2020-08-30 13:40:54	felix	I'm still very much a web person.
2020-08-30 13:41:06	felix	Anyway, how are you?
2020-08-30 13:41:08	lukee	here on the inside we know all about the small internet I suppose
2020-08-30 13:41:16	felix	:)
2020-08-30 13:41:41	lukee	not bad thanks - been making some more progress with my small web gemini proxy
2020-08-30 13:41:58	felix	On Gemini I've only written some brief thoughts so far.
2020-08-30 13:42:02	felix	And that sounds great!
2020-08-30 13:43:02	lukee	I managed to get it plugged into at least one other client - diohsc
2020-08-30 13:43:44	lukee	it is a scheme-specific proxy, so you tell your client to send all urls having that scheme to the proxy
2020-08-30 13:43:51	lukee	and it just talks gemini to you
2020-08-30 13:44:03	lukee	the client is none the wiser
2020-08-30 13:44:14	felix	Interesting!
2020-08-30 13:45:27	lukee	there is one other scheme-specific proxy already that Solderpunk wrote - Agena, which talks to gopherspace
2020-08-30 13:46:46	felix	I see!
2020-08-30 13:47:17	lukee	the hardest thing is, of course, is coming up with a name for it!
2020-08-30 13:47:37	felix	Always!
2020-08-30 13:48:53	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 13:48:55	lukee	Small WebD(aemon) -> Small WebD -> smallwebbed -> Duckling
2020-08-30 13:49:17	lukee	is one line of thought, I have others, equally ridiculous
2020-08-30 13:49:32	felix	:D
2020-08-30 13:51:51	lukee	What is the perspective of your summary of the small web/internet?
2020-08-30 13:53:32	felix	Wanna see?
2020-08-30 13:53:42	lukee	yes!
2020-08-30 13:54:22	felix	https://felix.plesoianu.ro/web/in-the-small.html
2020-08-30 13:58:40	lukee	nice
2020-08-30 13:58:46	felix	Thanks!
2020-08-30 13:58:50	lukee	who is Tantek Çelik on the IndieWeb?
2020-08-30 14:00:39	felix	It's the inventor of microformats.
2020-08-30 14:01:07	felix	I'm referring to this page: https://indieweb.org/small_web
2020-08-30 14:01:57	lukee	Well I suppose the term Small Web can mean lots of things
2020-08-30 14:02:18	felix	If you search for it on DDG you'll find the darnedest things.
2020-08-30 14:03:12	lukee	BTW - here is your article viewed as gemini
2020-08-30 14:03:14	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/i1zhaZC
2020-08-30 14:06:48	felix	<3
2020-08-30 14:06:59	lukee	For me, if a web page can be viewed as Gemini, it is accessible, simple and content focussed. That is the Small Web
2020-08-30 14:08:33	felix	My yardstick used to be Lynx. Guess you can go even more low-tech.
2020-08-30 14:14:15		flake has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-30 14:15:47	felix	Love that stylesheet.
2020-08-30 14:18:48	lukee	That is the "Fabric" theme, which does site-specific theming for every site. So each site has a different background and icon placemarker
2020-08-30 14:19:20	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 14:19:24	lukee	it helps finding your way around in Geminispace, which otherwise has not much visual cues where you are
2020-08-30 14:19:34	felix	Oh, good idea!
2020-08-30 14:20:24	lrb	lukee:are you the same Luke that writes Geminaut? :)
2020-08-30 14:20:46	lukee	yes
2020-08-30 14:22:21	lukee	have you tried it?
2020-08-30 14:24:26	felix	I'm on Linux, and after the last reinstall I left out Wine.
2020-08-30 14:24:49	felix	I've seen other screenshots though, it looks really good.
2020-08-30 14:25:07	lukee	thanks. Maybe one day it can be cross platform. Just not now
2020-08-30 14:25:14	felix	Fair enough.
2020-08-30 14:41:28	lrb	lukee:I have! I use it on my Win machine at work, love it. Thank you for your work :)
2020-08-30 14:43:31	lukee	lrb: you're welcome. Feel free to send me bug reports or improvement suggestions!
2020-08-30 14:44:23	felix	There is a thing I'd like to see in small-internet browsers.
2020-08-30 14:45:02	felix	Especially those that also support minimal web pages. >.>
2020-08-30 14:45:59	felix	Newsfeed rendering. Treating them like any other file format.
2020-08-30 14:46:11	lukee	you mean RSS/Atom?
2020-08-30 14:46:19	felix	Yep!
2020-08-30 14:47:17	lrb	felix: +1 !
2020-08-30 14:47:22	lukee	seems possible to me.
2020-08-30 14:47:37	lrb	would make it nice and easy to follow gemlogs
2020-08-30 14:48:11	felix	Indeed, especially while feed readers don't talk Gemini yet.
2020-08-30 14:48:22	felix	So we have to rely on a couple of aggregators.
2020-08-30 14:48:35	lukee	are you talking about looking at an individual feed, or that the client should be some kind of aggregator?
2020-08-30 14:48:41	felix	The former.
2020-08-30 14:49:05	felix	I'm one of those crazy people who keeps manually edited newsfeeds.
2020-08-30 14:49:18	lukee	how is that different to just visiting the index page for someones gemlog?
2020-08-30 14:49:46	felix	On Gemini I suppose it's not.
2020-08-30 14:50:12	felix	But people think RSS is dead, and part of it is newsfeeds always being hidden.
2020-08-30 14:50:21	felix	A second-class citizen on the web.
2020-08-30 14:51:07	felix	And my manual newsfeeds aren't reflected on the site.
2020-08-30 14:51:17	felix	My blogs have their own.
2020-08-30 14:59:39	lukee	on gemini however most of the atom feeds are sent with a generic content-type header text/xml
2020-08-30 15:00:16	lukee	so its hard for clients to know which are feeds and which are just some other XML without loading each one and checking the content
2020-08-30 15:03:01	felix	Of course. I'm not talking autodetection.
2020-08-30 15:03:30	lukee	so when does the client know when to interpret the content as a feed?
2020-08-30 15:04:23	lukee	if they are served correctly as application/atom+xml the client can know
2020-08-30 15:04:50	felix	Right, I ran into this issue with Markdown files already.
2020-08-30 15:04:57	lukee	but most are not using this.
2020-08-30 15:05:14	felix	Figured it might just be easier to peek at the root element of an XML file.
2020-08-30 15:05:25	lukee	anyway, that is a problem that could be fixed, we just tell people to serve the correct content type!
2020-08-30 15:05:46	felix	That could be hard for servers too, how are they to know? ;)
2020-08-30 15:06:29	lukee	maybe instead of creating the file as atom.xml, they use something like feed.atom as the file name, then set the server to serve .atom as application/atom+xml
2020-08-30 15:06:37	felix	Hmm!
2020-08-30 15:06:45	lukee	that should work
2020-08-30 15:07:57	lukee	or the server could have a special rule that xml is served as text/xml, unless a more specific rule that atom.xml is served as a feed
2020-08-30 15:08:10	lukee	a bit clunky perhaps
2020-08-30 15:09:07	felix	This problem hasn't been really solved on the web, either.
2020-08-30 15:09:22	felix	Browsers rely on link elements setting a suitable type.
2020-08-30 15:09:58	lukee	if you serve a web page as text/plain, the browser *ought* not to interpret it as html
2020-08-30 15:10:09	lukee	so the correct content type is key
2020-08-30 15:10:41	lukee	Anyway we do have content-type as part of the response in gemini, at least.
2020-08-30 15:12:12	felix	Right!
2020-08-30 15:12:33	felix	Well, it was just an idea.
2020-08-30 15:19:07	felix	It's just... a while ago a suggested that browsers should just render Markdown by now.
2020-08-30 15:19:21	felix	People yelled at me. "It's too vague and inconsistent!"
2020-08-30 15:19:46	felix	I was all >.> like in that meme. Because HTML isn't? But whatevs.
2020-08-30 15:20:12	felix	Then I saw that Kristall does render Markdown.
2020-08-30 15:20:31	felix	Because it can. Because it's not too busy doing Javascript and video.
2020-08-30 15:20:42	companion_cube	markdown is kind of standardized these days?
2020-08-30 15:20:58	felix	There's CommonMark.
2020-08-30 15:21:36	felix	But really, parsers seem to agree well enough on what the format is.
2020-08-30 15:21:51	felix	And what the output should look like.
2020-08-30 15:37:21	lukee	I thought one of the problems is that Markdown contains the whole of html
2020-08-30 15:37:33	lukee	since you can just embed it anywhere
2020-08-30 15:38:32	felix	Well, yeah, I'm thinking the kind of parser that doesn't let HTML through.
2020-08-30 15:38:42	felix	Like those used in comment forms and the like.
2020-08-30 15:40:02	felix	But then they might as well adopt gemtext. :P
2020-08-30 15:41:11	lukee	gemtext all the things
2020-08-30 15:41:46	lukee	they wouldnt need to have a pop up form with an instruction on how all the various markdown comments work
2020-08-30 15:41:54	lukee	they could just remember it is so simple
2020-08-30 15:42:39	felix	They could fit the instructions in a business card-sized box. :P
2020-08-30 15:43:52	lukee	people would complain, IT consultants would go out of business
2020-08-30 15:44:22	felix	Mwahaha.
2020-08-30 15:45:25	felix	Just let me finish my viewer, and make one in HTML5 as well.
2020-08-30 15:47:50	rjt_znc	(als oagree that it seems weird browsers don't just render markdown at this point)
2020-08-30 15:49:35	felix	I'm not sure what mainstream browsers think they're doing these days.
2020-08-30 15:50:06	felix	But seeing how many useful features *Lynx* still supports in 2MB...
2020-08-30 15:50:13	lukee	they are preserving the power structures of the techno-elite
2020-08-30 15:50:22	⚡	lukee punches into the air
2020-08-30 15:50:27	rjt_znc	Seem to want to be everything but be browsers
2020-08-30 15:50:30	felix	That much bigger browsers long removed as a maintenance burden.
2020-08-30 15:50:41	felix	Heh! Well said!
2020-08-30 15:51:20	lukee	the web is now 2 modes. Web-As-Application alongside the Small Web
2020-08-30 15:51:48	lukee	or, small(er) web
2020-08-30 15:52:18	rjt_znc	Yeah
2020-08-30 15:52:56	lukee	well, not even Web-As-Application, more like WebOS
2020-08-30 15:53:23	lukee	the complexity of modern web standards is astounding
2020-08-30 15:53:58	felix	I saw the figures.
2020-08-30 15:55:24	felix	No wonder C++ compilers are doing better as a market.
2020-08-30 15:56:23	felix	And operating systems, for that matter. They're simpler than browsers.
2020-08-30 15:56:56	lukee	but still, hypertext is the killer application
2020-08-30 15:57:36	lukee	and the necessary infrastructure for hypertext is as we know much more modest
2020-08-30 15:58:00	felix	Yep... ad-hoc help systems used to do it.
2020-08-30 15:58:01	lukee	even gopher, bless it, has hypertext
2020-08-30 15:58:15	felix	:)
2020-08-30 15:58:17	lukee	just no one wants to write gophermaps
2020-08-30 15:58:35	lukee	and why not learn a couple of lessons from markdown
2020-08-30 15:59:00	felix	There's always the option of serving files over Gopher, with a README on the side.
2020-08-30 15:59:46	lukee	I think a few writers in gopherspace are using markdown a bit. But I dont think any clients render it
2020-08-30 15:59:58	lukee	its just a way of signalling document structure
2020-08-30 16:00:25	lukee	eventually they will come to gemini ;)
2020-08-30 16:01:30	felix	I've put some markdown documents on my first capsule.
2020-08-30 16:01:45	felix	One became gemtext easily enough, the others not so much.
2020-08-30 16:02:42	felix	Could have left them with a .txt extension, but though, what the hell.
2020-08-30 16:03:34	lukee	what is the one thing you miss from markdown when you write gemtext?
2020-08-30 16:05:38	felix	Horizontal rules. Most people disagree, I asked here recently.
2020-08-30 16:07:24	felix	Otherwise, I'm too used to putting in a *lot* of `code` and so on.
2020-08-30 16:08:44	felix	The medium shapes the message.
2020-08-30 16:10:59	lukee	huh that surprises me
2020-08-30 16:20:28	lukee	If I need a horizontal line I just use a row of underscores
2020-08-30 16:20:32	lukee	_____________________________________
2020-08-30 16:21:11	lukee	or you could use a row of some other character
2020-08-30 16:21:36	felix	Right. We talked about that. Whatever works for you.
2020-08-30 16:22:00	felix	I just learned to alternate line types nicely.
2020-08-30 16:22:30	lukee	I think the inline code is nice. Maybe we can develop a convention for that
2020-08-30 16:22:40	lukee	there is a whole range of possible delimiters
2020-08-30 16:22:41	lukee	https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/category/Ps
2020-08-30 16:23:13	felix	More generally we can probably make up some useful conventions.
2020-08-30 16:23:31	felix	To provide metadata and the like without extending the format.
2020-08-30 16:23:59	lukee	so one possibility is to use them like this ⌊some code⌉
2020-08-30 16:24:39	felix	Hmm!
2020-08-30 16:24:40	lukee	I think the main thing is to use some delimiter
2020-08-30 16:25:22	lukee	here is a nice list http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_matching_brackets.html
2020-08-30 16:25:32	felix	I see!
2020-08-30 16:26:41	lukee	the french seem to like to use these to quote speech.  «bonjour», dit Francois
2020-08-30 16:26:50	felix	Right!
2020-08-30 16:27:21	felix	Along with non-breaking spaces on the inside.
2020-08-30 16:27:47	lukee	why not if you need multiple spaces. Usually you dont though in my experience
2020-08-30 16:28:31	felix	In most languages, no.
2020-08-30 16:29:12	felix	But in French you're supposed to write quotes and such that way.
2020-08-30 16:29:51	lukee	I think maybe that is old fashioned now, but I have seen French books like that (I'm not a native French speaker)
2020-08-30 16:32:14	felix	Indeed, it's just that the government and big publications are sticklers for the Good Old Language.
2020-08-30 16:32:39	felix	Otherwise it's only natural to stick with the medium's affordances.
2020-08-30 16:33:16	felix	Reminds me of the time when a friend berated me for not italicizing a ship name.
2020-08-30 16:33:40	felix	That was in a text adventure made in Inform 6, which doesn't make it easy.
2020-08-30 16:33:49	felix	Especially in room names.
2020-08-30 16:34:20	lukee	With unicode we have so many more possibilities
2020-08-30 16:34:43	felix	Arguably, yes, but we can also just stop demanding all those italics.
2020-08-30 16:34:59	felix	For ship names, for book titles, for Latin expressions...
2020-08-30 16:35:10	felix	English has a ridiculous amount of them.
2020-08-30 16:35:28	lukee	I guess I can see the point sometimes
2020-08-30 16:35:48	lukee	if you run a latin expression into your English, it is a bit weird
2020-08-30 16:36:31	felix	Guess you have a different perspective as a native speaker.
2020-08-30 16:36:33	lukee	and for names, it avoids needing a quoting delimiter
2020-08-30 16:37:11	lukee	for example if I say "I really like The Plague" it is different if "The Plague" is in italics
2020-08-30 16:37:22	lukee	(the book by Camus)
2020-08-30 16:37:30	lukee	somewhat prescient at the moment
2020-08-30 16:37:46	felix	Heh. True. Though caps give a good hint, and are much easier to add.
2020-08-30 16:38:42	lukee	Still, even so it can be ambiguous
2020-08-30 16:39:04	felix	Arguably. But dealing with ambiguity is more of a cultural issue.
2020-08-30 16:39:11	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 16:39:18	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-30 16:39:22	lukee	hmm
2020-08-30 16:39:59	lukee	Well, a lot of our typographical conventions are inherited from the print form
2020-08-30 16:40:32	felix	Indeed, not least because the web was created by and for academics.
2020-08-30 16:41:22	lukee	I think desktop publishing predates the web
2020-08-30 16:41:44	lukee	and publishing more generally is hundreds of years old as a cultural practice
2020-08-30 16:41:58	lukee	so it is deeply embedded in our culture
2020-08-30 16:42:53	felix	And habits change hard, yes.
2020-08-30 16:43:31	lukee	yes as does culture
2020-08-30 16:44:00	lukee	I meant to say "yes, and culture changes slowly"
2020-08-30 16:44:32	⚡	felix nods
2020-08-30 16:44:51	lukee	but look how text speak has infiltrated modern informal writing :)
2020-08-30 16:44:56	lukee	lol
2020-08-30 16:45:02	felix	Good!
2020-08-30 16:45:42	lukee	I meant text speak as in what people write with their thumbs into their text messages on their phone
2020-08-30 16:46:02	felix	Right!
2020-08-30 16:46:08	lukee	sentences, who needs those?
2020-08-30 16:47:01	lukee	why write a meaningful response to your recipent when you can just go 👍
2020-08-30 16:47:16	felix	It seems meaningful enough to me.
2020-08-30 16:47:38	lukee	so the affordances of the phone has made it all very simplistic
2020-08-30 16:47:44	felix	Like a nod.
2020-08-30 16:47:47	lukee	I'm old fashioned, but I think too simplistic
2020-08-30 16:47:48	felix	Maybe?
2020-08-30 16:48:00	felix	Maybe we needed to chill already.
2020-08-30 16:48:36	felix	Texting showed us that we don't need so much formality.
2020-08-30 16:49:21	lukee	If your partner writes you a poem to tell you they love you, is it an appropriate response to reply 💗
2020-08-30 16:49:58	felix	Dunno, it depends on your partner and how it's going between you.
2020-08-30 16:50:55	lukee	I guess my point is that my impression is that text messaging has reduced communication when language is rich, yet underused
2020-08-30 16:51:36	lukee	and this is now part of modern communication practice - the affordance of the phone and our thumb
2020-08-30 16:56:27	felix	Well, if you'd rather be all literary and stuff, by all means.
2020-08-30 16:56:43	felix	I tend to anyway, due to learning English from books.
2020-08-30 16:57:25	felix	And many people still appreciate literary expression, for good reasons.
2020-08-30 16:58:01	lukee	Well, I admire people who learn other languages. My foreign language skills are somewhat neglected
2020-08-30 16:58:49	felix	Can't blame you. My French is barely usable for lack of practice.
2020-08-30 16:59:31	felix	Been making efforts to follow French speakers online.
2020-08-30 17:00:01	lukee	An interesting fact is that a lot of the early hackers who worked as sysadmins and programmers were often recruited from liberal arts programs
2020-08-30 17:00:20	lukee	as computing science wasnt invented yet
2020-08-30 17:00:45	lukee	but these literary and linguist types, just learned programming languages and got on with it
2020-08-30 17:01:53	felix	And in some cases created them, like Larry Wall and Perl.
2020-08-30 17:01:58	lukee	yes
2020-08-30 18:17:20	▬▬▶	dmolliae_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 18:20:26		dmolliae has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 18:24:25		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-30 18:29:46		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-30 18:30:41	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 19:50:41		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 20:01:54	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 20:09:38		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-30 20:26:29	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 20:35:13		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-30 20:49:51	▬▬▶	jb55 has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 21:05:59		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-30 21:18:23	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-08-30 22:36:23		dctrud has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-30 22:56:11	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 00:22:01	makeworld	Huh I never knew that, that's interesting
2020-08-31 02:27:26	epoch	15:05:46 < felix> That could be hard for servers too, how are they to know? ;)
2020-08-31 02:28:06	epoch	I either generate my feeds from a script so the script outputs the mime-type too, or I abuse extended attributes
2020-08-31 02:28:56	epoch	if getfattr -n user.mime-type "$1" >/dev/null 2>&1;then
2020-08-31 02:28:56	epoch	  MIME_TYPE="$(getfattr --only-values -n user.mime-type "$1" 2>/dev/null)"
2020-08-31 02:28:57	epoch	fi
2020-08-31 02:29:21	epoch	that's in a mime-type script I use for my httpd and geminid
2020-08-31 02:30:29	epoch	first guesses based on file --mime-type, then file extension can override, then the attribute can override file-extension-based guesses.
2020-08-31 02:31:02	⚡	epoch goes back to reading backlog
2020-08-31 02:33:45	epoch	15:52:56 < lukee> well, not even Web-As-Application, more like WebOS
2020-08-31 02:33:56	epoch	wvm, like jvm
2020-08-31 02:36:44	epoch	 /italic/
2020-08-31 02:37:35	epoch	 *bold*
2020-08-31 02:37:48	epoch	 _under_lined_thing_
2020-08-31 02:38:04	epoch	 -strike-through-stuff-
2020-08-31 02:38:34	easeout	kebab-case-ftw
2020-08-31 02:38:54	epoch	WhAt Do YoU MeAn? ThIs?
2020-08-31 02:39:13	easeout	sassy spongebob case
2020-08-31 02:39:18	epoch	oh. kebab.
2020-08-31 02:39:22	epoch	like with a stick through it.
2020-08-31 02:39:27	easeout	yep!
2020-08-31 02:58:18		cyrus has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 03:00:42		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-08-31 03:01:36	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 03:05:01	michel	Ironically HP and Mozilla once thought they could make a mobile platform out of web alps
2020-08-31 03:05:02	michel	Turns out you have to be Google (with Chrome OS) to make it 'work'. It's a monster
2020-08-31 03:06:45	easeout	but then you're google and you quit caring about projects after a few years and they stagnate
2020-08-31 03:10:51	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 03:11:53	epoch	(btw, if you want a chromebook, someone is giving one away for the price of postage+shipping)
2020-08-31 03:25:52	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 03:29:54	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 03:45:41	doppler	what kind of chromebook? I'm just jumping in now
2020-08-31 03:47:25		dctrud has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-08-31 03:58:56	epoch	https://notbird.site/@grufwub/104778665982482259
2020-08-31 04:12:05		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 04:12:22	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 05:35:41	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 06:42:24	▬▬▶	dmolliae has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 06:44:47		dmolliae_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 07:49:39		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 09:24:24	jan6	michel: problem isn't making it work, problem is advertising and sustaining it... I loved firefoxOS tho...
2020-08-31 09:27:03	jan6	microsoft's also allowing PWAs on their store now, meanwhile on linux there's no support for pwas afaik... well, idk about chrome, maybe that has it
2020-08-31 09:39:28	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 10:11:00	rmgr	I was stoked for firefoxOS but at the time it started I couldn't afford a device :(
2020-08-31 10:18:34		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-08-31 10:35:40		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 11:08:32	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 11:09:44	lukee	FirefoxOS lives as KaiOS - devices are quite affordable. You can download a dev kit and write your own apps (JS) or use the Kaios store which has a few things in it
2020-08-31 11:10:15	lukee	I love my Nokia 2720
2020-08-31 11:15:04	omni	"gemspace" or what do you call it?
2020-08-31 11:16:32	lukee	I think people seem to refer to it as geminispace mostly
2020-08-31 11:17:43	lukee	or geminiverse
2020-08-31 11:22:31	lukee	I've also heard it called NQ2 - which is the celestial quadrant that contains the Gemini constellation
2020-08-31 11:22:53	lukee	gemspace is cool too
2020-08-31 11:31:05	omni	it's quite short and pronouncable and it also gives you the idea of a space filled with gems while you (may) still associate to gemini
2020-08-31 11:31:11	omni	NQ2 is pretty cool
2020-08-31 11:36:05		yali has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 11:36:25		styan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 11:36:29		links has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 12:05:13	epoch	how about gemweb?
2020-08-31 12:05:58	@tomasino	i've seen gemspace most often
2020-08-31 12:06:11	epoch	"the web" is just all hypertexts that are linked together?
2020-08-31 12:06:27	@tomasino	the web just invites confusion
2020-08-31 12:07:30	epoch	x-web could be a subset of the web that is based on 'x'?
2020-08-31 12:07:58	epoch	merp. power might go out here.
2020-08-31 12:13:22	epoch	very blustery
2020-08-31 12:13:31	⚡	epoch checks for turdnado warnings
2020-08-31 12:13:56	lukee	turdnado - a tornado of turds - definitely avoid!
2020-08-31 12:16:22	epoch	severe thunderstorm watch, possible hail, 50 mph winds, shitloads of rain
2020-08-31 12:17:47	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 12:17:51	epoch	https://radar.weather.gov/Conus/full_loop.php loads in 2 seconds
2020-08-31 12:18:02	epoch	https://www.wunderground.com/wundermap?lat=35.23&lon=-93.141 takes like a minute
2020-08-31 12:20:56	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 12:21:50	@tomasino	uhoh
2020-08-31 12:22:11	felix	TFW you have a new daily routine, and it involves checking CAPCOM.
2020-08-31 12:22:25	@tomasino	:D
2020-08-31 12:22:46	felix	In other news: gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~nttp/toys/gemview.gmi
2020-08-31 12:23:28	xfnw	ctrl-c has gemini? cool
2020-08-31 12:23:48	felix	Yep! It was added two or three weeks ago.
2020-08-31 12:23:49	lukee	hi felix - good to see your viewer live now
2020-08-31 12:24:03	felix	Thank you!
2020-08-31 12:25:11	lukee	does it take content on stdin?
2020-08-31 12:25:43	felix	Oops, I didn't think of that. In the next version, hopefully.
2020-08-31 12:26:27	lukee	once you have that you can do gemget <url> -o - | gemview
2020-08-31 12:26:37	felix	I see!
2020-08-31 12:26:57	lukee	or hot wire the links to call gemget.
2020-08-31 12:27:08	lukee	but as you say, it doesnt have to become a full client
2020-08-31 12:27:39	felix	Something to keep in mind anyway.
2020-08-31 12:28:20	lukee	of should I say  ⌊gemget <url> -o - | gemview⌉
2020-08-31 12:28:34	lukee	of -> or
2020-08-31 12:28:35	felix	:D
2020-08-31 12:59:05	lukee	does anyone here have experience using AV-98?
2020-08-31 12:59:37	felix	Nope, sorry. I seem to remember trying it out a while ago, but briefly.
2020-08-31 12:59:50	lukee	I'm trying to find the required format of the config file /~av98/av98rc
2020-08-31 13:00:15	lukee	in it you can define preferences and proxies etc
2020-08-31 13:00:36	lukee	the script mentions it, but I can't find an example yet
2020-08-31 13:02:36	felix	I see! Isn't that odd?
2020-08-31 13:04:43	lukee	maybe the user never needs to edit it... I will try something else
2020-08-31 13:10:12	lukee	ok scrub that previous request - no longer needed
2020-08-31 13:14:54	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 13:20:52	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-31 13:24:30	dctrud	Good morning... at least here it is :-)
2020-08-31 13:24:40	lukee	good afternoon
2020-08-31 13:24:59	felix	:D
2020-08-31 13:40:31	felix	Say, it seems to me that Gemini clients are giving Gopher a boost, too.
2020-08-31 13:40:46	dkibi	woooho it's time to switch to a nong lived certificate
2020-08-31 13:40:56	dkibi	until then: my capsule isnot accessible ^^
2020-08-31 13:40:57	felix	Yay!
2020-08-31 13:41:02	felix	Awww.
2020-08-31 13:41:51	dkibi	(I saw that comming, but had no chance to perpare the cert before. house move of friend hat priority ^^)
2020-08-31 13:43:40	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 13:44:51	felix	Fair enough. Hi there!
2020-08-31 13:47:45	dkibi	had
2020-08-31 13:48:22	dkibi	"hat priority _M_"
2020-08-31 13:48:51	felix	Hats get priority all right. Especially cool hats.
2020-08-31 13:54:11	djph	felix: fezzes are cool now.
2020-08-31 13:56:09	felix	Really?
2020-08-31 13:57:07	djph	felix: I take it you're not one to watch Dr. Who.
2020-08-31 13:57:18	felix	Nope.
2020-08-31 13:58:21	djph	haha
2020-08-31 13:59:10	djph	The Doctor in a couple of episodes (IIRC, it was a 2 parter) finds a fez and starts wearing it.  When questioned about it, he goes "fezzes are cool now."
2020-08-31 14:00:15	felix	:D
2020-08-31 14:04:00		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-31 14:09:35		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-31 14:11:08		rjt_znc has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 14:16:14	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 14:17:52	felix	Welcome back!
2020-08-31 14:34:11	xj9	someone asked about an open source thing like vulpes or mozz. I have a WIP program deployed at https://sunshinegardens.org witb a source link in the footer
2020-08-31 14:34:34	xfnw	coooleo
2020-08-31 14:37:51	xfnw	ooo cool sourcehut
2020-08-31 14:39:17	felix	It's increasingly popular.
2020-08-31 14:39:23	felix	And yeah, cool site too!
2020-08-31 14:39:43	felix	People make awesome things on the small internet.
2020-08-31 14:44:28	@tomasino	sunshine city
2020-08-31 14:48:37	felix	:)
2020-08-31 14:49:29	felix	xj9: Your wrote about what an Amiga might look like today.
2020-08-31 14:49:41	felix	Reminded me of this: gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~nttp/writing/retro.gmi
2020-08-31 14:59:13		wingy has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-08-31 15:05:58	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 15:07:42	felix	Welcome back!
2020-08-31 15:17:10	kevinsan	hi felix, i followed the link to your page on small web yesterday (and spent quite some time exploring - do you ever sleep?). lots of lovely stuff!
2020-08-31 15:17:44	felix	Thank you!
2020-08-31 15:18:08	felix	That site has been around for a while.
2020-08-31 15:18:29	felix	13 or 14 years now.
2020-08-31 15:18:42	kevinsan	the small-web thing was interesting, in particular reference to indieweb which seems a good idea woefully implemented/.
2020-08-31 15:18:58	felix	How so?
2020-08-31 15:19:30	kevinsan	all i got from it was a) moaning about the web, b) some tips on setting up a web site.
2020-08-31 15:20:29	kevinsan	but it seemed so vague, and what was written was largely unfathomable to me. it's just a badly organised wiki
2020-08-31 15:20:56	kevinsan	am i missing something (i did read one of your articles that praised the wiki, i just couldn't see it)
2020-08-31 15:24:07	felix	Dunno what to say. It's interesting that your experience was so different.
2020-08-31 15:24:39	felix	But yeah, I think we're on the right path here.
2020-08-31 15:25:24	felix	Sorry, I'll have to idle soon. Back later.
2020-08-31 15:26:37	xj9	felix: added your link to my reading list
2020-08-31 15:27:25	felix	<3
2020-08-31 15:32:55	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 15:35:41	kevinsan	indieweb is like encouraging everyone to create their own personal space on the web, then throwing an IBM WebSphere RedBook at them (microformats2? http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2)
2020-08-31 15:36:18	kevinsan	it's almost like they want to put people off :)
2020-08-31 15:37:06	@tomasino	if you ignore webmentions, the rest is pretty simple
2020-08-31 15:37:55	sandra	Yeah, my take on it was more like "Here are some optional already-invented wheels for some wheels you might otherwise wanna invent"
2020-08-31 15:38:00	kevinsan	i couldn't get a handle on what 'the rest' is
2020-08-31 15:38:22	@tomasino	identification mostly
2020-08-31 15:38:25	sandra	I don't wanna use any of that stuff
2020-08-31 15:38:58	@tomasino	not gonna hold anyone to the fire if indieweb isn't your fancy
2020-08-31 15:39:09	@tomasino	it seems like it's 90% one guy anway
2020-08-31 15:41:04	sandra	I've gotten really good use out of the xoxo outline format, is that them? Or is that something else
2020-08-31 15:41:06	sandra	That was a few years og
2020-08-31 15:41:49	sandra	s/og/ago
2020-08-31 15:42:12	sandra	http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo
2020-08-31 15:42:18	felix	I'm back! That was quick.
2020-08-31 15:42:43	felix	And that's funny... thought I was critical of the IndieWeb.
2020-08-31 15:43:41	kevinsan	felix, you were, but you had an earlier post when you were not
2020-08-31 15:44:22	felix	Well, there are good things and bad things IMO.
2020-08-31 15:44:50	felix	Clearly I'm not among the fiercest critics.
2020-08-31 15:45:05	sandra	I'm not super hype on POSSE :/ I mean obviously "PESOS" (their word, don't shoot the messenger on that)  is worse
2020-08-31 15:45:16	kevinsan	sandra, xoxo - patented? why would anyone waste money patenting that when simply writing it provides prior-art?
2020-08-31 15:45:22	sandra	But I don't want to put anything on Facebook etc
2020-08-31 15:45:34	sandra	kevinsan: Holy shit, I didn't know it was patented
2020-08-31 15:45:45	sandra	I use a method of lacing shoes that's technically patented
2020-08-31 15:45:57	sandra	By some cave explorer guy. But IDGAF :( eff patents
2020-08-31 15:46:41	kevinsan	didn't know that, what does EFF patent?
2020-08-31 15:47:04	sandra	I meant "fuck patents"
2020-08-31 15:47:24	kevinsan	yes, the penny dropped soon after hitting enter
2020-08-31 15:47:35	sandra	IDK why I wrote eff for fuck, that wasn't a particularly deliberate or thought-through decision either way
2020-08-31 15:48:04	kevinsan	i don't tend to swear on this channel - it seems too polite.
2020-08-31 15:48:26	sandra	I didn't want to smear the Electronic Frontier Foundation though.
2020-08-31 15:48:45	sandra	Smearing < Swearing
2020-08-31 15:49:34	companion_cube	schmearing > swearing
2020-08-31 15:49:45	sandra	Right, that's a given
2020-08-31 15:50:20	sandra	From which we can deduce that smearing < schmearing
2020-08-31 15:50:26	companion_cube	definitely
2020-08-31 15:54:42	kevinsan	felix, gemview is cool - I didn't really know what tcl/tk was (shamefully), or that it was already installed on my server.
2020-08-31 15:54:57	felix	Go figure! Thanks!
2020-08-31 15:55:52	companion_cube	it's incredible
2020-08-31 15:56:06	companion_cube	I think the first time I really heard about tcl was in the context of sqlite
2020-08-31 15:56:13	companion_cube	which started its life as a tcl extension?
2020-08-31 15:56:14	kevinsan	you seem to get a lot of bang for buck - a GUI in a handful of lines of code. Can you recommend any further reading?
2020-08-31 15:57:29	felix	https://tkdocs.com/ is *the* way to learn.
2020-08-31 15:57:45	felix	And more generally, https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/
2020-08-31 16:00:10	companion_cube	is it really still alive?
2020-08-31 16:00:23	felix	Very much so.
2020-08-31 16:00:42	companion_cube	(to clarify, I meant tk)
2020-08-31 16:02:49	felix	Yes, of course!
2020-08-31 16:03:02	felix	It's continually developed, just slowly and sustainably.
2020-08-31 16:03:13	felix	People *think* before adding to it.
2020-08-31 16:03:39	sandra	My long standard rant on copyright (that briefly mention patents) gemini://idiomdrottning.org/stance_on_copyright.gmi Uh, it's a mix of stuff I mostly wrote many years ago and I only update some corners of it every now and then
2020-08-31 16:04:27	felix	Everyone else rushes forward at a breakneck pace, always breaking stuff.
2020-08-31 16:04:58	sandra	Oh TCL 8 added arrays, I didn't know about that
2020-08-31 16:05:27	felix	That was like a quarter century ago. :P
2020-08-31 16:06:07	⚡	sandra = old
2020-08-31 16:06:26	sandra	I always knew of TCL as "that language that doesn't even have arrays"
2020-08-31 16:06:45	felix	As for your post... I've only ever seen trademarks abused.
2020-08-31 16:06:51	xj9	a lot of inferno ui stuff is done in tk, but i haven't gotten around to learning yet. still trying to get the darn thing to bootstrap on alpine.
2020-08-31 16:07:05	felix	Aw.
2020-08-31 16:07:17	sandra	felix: Only as in you haven't seen them used for good, or only as in you haven't seen copyright or patents used for bad?
2020-08-31 16:07:48	felix	Oh, all of them are only used for evil. Trademarks however are doubly so.
2020-08-31 16:08:06	sandra	Thanks for that clarification, was just gonna go on a long rant about the evils of patents♥
2020-08-31 16:08:41	sandra	I think it's more of a philosophical hypothetical that I could see the value in protecting names somehow, IDK. You're definitely right about practice
2020-08-31 16:09:47	felix	Only practice matters. Got a friend who keeps defending the principle.
2020-08-31 16:09:52	felix	Why should I care.
2020-08-31 16:10:15	felix	The prison system in my country also claims to be all about rehabilitation.
2020-08-31 16:10:16	sandra	Practice matters much more than principle
2020-08-31 16:10:24	felix	Who gives a damn when results are always opposite.
2020-08-31 16:10:35	sandra	Principle can a good thing when considering future practice
2020-08-31 16:12:00	sandra	Right, incarceration is such a disgusting mix of completely different things. "Revenge", "rehabilitation", "deterrent", "protecting the general public", validation of victims, validation of societal norms. It does most of those things very poorly and many of those things are actively bad things.
2020-08-31 16:13:05	felix	That's a discussion for elsewhere though. :)
2020-08-31 16:13:06	kevinsan	sandra, or from a practical perspective, incarceration is just out of the way and out of sight so far as 'society' is concerned.
2020-08-31 16:13:33	kevinsan	felix, why do you rate trademarks as worse than patents?
2020-08-31 16:13:48	felix	Because they don't expire and are much more easily abused.
2020-08-31 16:14:04	sandra	kevinsan: right, that's sort of what I was going at with the bogus "protecting" thing. But I can drop the topic
2020-08-31 16:14:26	felix	And if you want to protect a brand? We already have counterfeiting laws.
2020-08-31 16:15:30	kevinsan	hmm, that's beyond my understanding. i always considered counterfeiting laws as dependent on trademark law
2020-08-31 16:15:32	sandra	Counterfeinting is what I'm not so hot on, compared to other copying
2020-08-31 16:17:23	kevinsan	patent law prevents me from bringing stuff to market (in some hypothetical world where i have entrepeneurial skills!), trademark law just limits my branding, no?
2020-08-31 16:17:31	djph	^
2020-08-31 16:17:45	felix	No, it can also be used to *steal* a product name you worked for years to promote.
2020-08-31 16:17:51	sandra	What does the ^ convention mean on IRC? I've seen it in other channels too.
2020-08-31 16:18:03	felix	They tried it with Python, of all things.
2020-08-31 16:18:11	felix	I think it means "this".
2020-08-31 16:18:21	djph	^ (or "above")
2020-08-31 16:18:28	kevinsan	right, so I create a product and then much later someone trademarks it and prevents me from using it?
2020-08-31 16:18:43	sandra	As in QFT minus the Q?
2020-08-31 16:18:55	kevinsan	unless I go to the lengths to trademark it myself and defend it forever more?
2020-08-31 16:19:06	felix	kevinsan: yes. It's not theory. It happened to me and others.
2020-08-31 16:19:19	felix	It almost happened to the Python Foundation.
2020-08-31 16:19:24	kevinsan	ok, so yes, that's crappy abuse of law
2020-08-31 16:19:29	djph	depends on where you live.  IN THEORY, the creator has trademark from day one.
2020-08-31 16:19:51	djph	You just have to have the resources and proof when garbage people try taking it from you
2020-08-31 16:19:55	felix	Dunno where that's the case.
2020-08-31 16:20:22	felix	I can't afford a lawyer anyway.
2020-08-31 16:21:24	felix	You know how according to law you can't in fact trademark common words?
2020-08-31 16:21:34	felix	Apple. Word. Windows. So much for that.
2020-08-31 16:21:47	felix	It's how much money you have. Law for the rich.
2020-08-31 16:22:14	djph	pretty sure "Windows" doesn't have (TM) or (R) after it
2020-08-31 16:22:22	felix	It doesn't need to.
2020-08-31 16:22:31	sandra	You can't trademark words that are common in the same class.
2020-08-31 16:22:40	felix	And you'll see the mark too, in many settings.
2020-08-31 16:23:00	sandra	Like a fruit seller can't trademark Apple but a record company can
2020-08-31 16:23:30	felix	Well, isn't that a nice loophole?
2020-08-31 16:23:37	djph	well, given Apple iTunes, a record company may have trouble
2020-08-31 16:23:45	sandra	Microsoft hasn't got a trademark on Word
2020-08-31 16:24:00	sandra	The Apple record company predated Apple computer
2020-08-31 16:24:05	djph	but yeah, "Trademarks" basically live within a given domain
2020-08-31 16:24:14	sandra	They do have a trademark on Windows which in hindsight is weird AF.
2020-08-31 16:24:56	djph	sandra: sure, if they existed first and held the trademark for Apple Recording Company; Apple Computer Corporation needs to walk carefully
2020-08-31 16:25:20	sandra	It wasn't my intention when I wrote a rant on the evils on copyright that I'd fall into an argument on how "trademarks are sorta, maybe, kinda OK, or they could be if they were implemented better and more fairly"
2020-08-31 16:25:44	sandra	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
2020-08-31 16:26:46	sandra	Like, I don't want anyone emailing from my email address except me. I could see someone feel feel similarly about a trademark
2020-08-31 16:28:36	felix	Yeah, never mind. We're on the same side, that's what matters.
2020-08-31 16:28:44	sandra	♥
2020-08-31 16:31:02	felix	Otherwise you seem to be into D&D?
2020-08-31 16:32:27	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 16:32:34	felix	Hello!
2020-08-31 16:32:48	sandra	I like D&D
2020-08-31 16:33:32	sandra	I like that it's open source, hacking on rules and seeing the consequences of those hacked rules is great fun♥
2020-08-31 16:33:46	felix	:)
2020-08-31 16:34:26	felix	Rule systems can be a lot of fun all right.
2020-08-31 16:35:07	sandra	I switched from an improv-heavy, rules-light style to the opposite about 8 years ago. Loving it now♥
2020-08-31 16:35:21	felix	Interesting!
2020-08-31 16:37:08	sandra	I don't prep plot, just locations, obstacles, rewards. Porte-monstre-trésor!
2020-08-31 16:37:23	felix	:D
2020-08-31 16:37:49	felix	Off-topic: gus.guru reports 200 Gemini domains as of yesterday!
2020-08-31 16:38:42	felix	And that has OSR vibes, doesn't it?
2020-08-31 16:38:58	kevinsan	man OSR
2020-08-31 16:39:05	sandra	OSR is an awesome way to play D&D
2020-08-31 16:39:16	sandra	Old School Renaissance
2020-08-31 16:39:18	kevinsan	lol, ok intertwined conversations
2020-08-31 16:39:44	felix	Wanted to steer it towards cheerful things.
2020-08-31 16:40:07	sandra	But I've gradually & slowly gone more rules-heavy than OSR
2020-08-31 16:40:25	felix	Whatever floats your boat.
2020-08-31 16:40:48	sandra	Do you play and/or run any D&D?
2020-08-31 16:41:29	felix	Nope! To me tabletop RPGs are more of a literary form.
2020-08-31 16:41:55	sandra	Yeah, that's quite a different style, I've some experience with that in the past
2020-08-31 16:42:07	felix	I did some PBP, and chat RP. Only twice in person.
2020-08-31 16:42:52	felix	Got my own rule system, but it's for roguelikes and such.
2020-08-31 16:43:10	felix	Though it's based on real dice, and presented as if for tabletop.
2020-08-31 16:43:39	sandra	Is it multiplayer or singleplayer? I've played a ton of Cave Noire which is a single player rogue-style game
2020-08-31 16:43:47	sandra	From 1991
2020-08-31 16:44:10	felix	It's designed for single-player games, not sure how it would fare in multiplayer.
2020-08-31 16:44:52	felix	And I never heard of Cave Noire!
2020-08-31 16:45:41	sandra	I didn't play it back in the original 1991 but it got fan translated a few years ago and that's when I picked it up
2020-08-31 16:45:59	felix	A friend recently told me about Mystery Dungeon.
2020-08-31 16:46:14	felix	Sounds a lot like what I've been going for in recent games.
2020-08-31 16:46:15	sandra	That might be similar from what I understand
2020-08-31 16:48:31	felix	Yeah, a blend of roguelikes and action-adventure.
2020-08-31 16:48:46	felix	Turn-based, but fast-paced and simple, yet still tactical.
2020-08-31 16:53:00	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 16:53:17	sandra	Hi is this sloum from Spacewalk?
2020-08-31 16:53:26	sloum	Hi :) Yes, it is.
2020-08-31 16:53:27	sandra	I just emailed you
2020-08-31 16:53:37	sloum	Oh, cool. I'll log in and check.
2020-08-31 16:53:41	sandra	Thank you♥
2020-08-31 16:53:42	⚡	felix waves!
2020-08-31 16:54:40	sloum	Spacewalk doesnt work off of atom feeds. It checks a static page for changes at regular intervals. Do you have a URL that you would like it to track (preferably one with just a listing of posts, but technically any page can work).
2020-08-31 16:54:49	sloum	If you'd prefer we can discuss via email instead.
2020-08-31 16:55:05	felix	Interesting!
2020-08-31 16:55:15	sandra	texts.gmi and/or images.gmi but the latter just has links to images (via gemini://)
2020-08-31 16:55:34	sandra	Both update on the reg with newest on top
2020-08-31 16:55:40	sloum	Ok. Cool. I'll get it set up and e-mail you a confirmation.
2020-08-31 16:56:00	sandra	Much apprec♥
2020-08-31 16:56:46	sandra	index.gmi does not change very often by comparison to those two
2020-08-31 16:57:24	sandra	I am so grateful for this. Thank you sloum
2020-08-31 16:57:58	sloum	No problem at all. just added it and emailed you back.
2020-08-31 17:00:06	▬▬▶	drskrzyk_ has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 17:00:29		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 17:03:54	dctrud	apologies sloum - that reminded me I hadn't remembered to ask yet... so you have an email from me too
2020-08-31 17:04:56	sloum	Haha, no worries. There has been a lot of interest lately.
2020-08-31 17:05:13	sandra	I heard about Gemini for the first time ever the other day
2020-08-31 17:06:12	sloum	It seems to be steadily growing, which is pretty cool.
2020-08-31 17:08:39	felix	sandra: you're moving quickly!
2020-08-31 17:09:07	sandra	I had some text files and pictures already laying around
2020-08-31 17:09:22	sandra	I didn't write/draw all that stuff in one day :)
2020-08-31 17:09:45	felix	Even so. Gonna take me a lot longer to bring my stuff over.
2020-08-31 17:10:04	felix	And yes it's growing. I first heard about it... in spring or so?
2020-08-31 17:13:31	sandra	Yes, I've seen some older posts from around there
2020-08-31 17:13:52	sandra	Of course I backdated all my posts :D
2020-08-31 17:14:13	felix	Fair enough.
2020-08-31 17:14:19	sloum	I remember when it didnt have a name and was an idea solderpunk was throwing around on the server, lol. It came as a shock to all when Sean implemented a server based on the posts/conversations.
2020-08-31 17:14:39	felix	That sounds like the story of Lisp.
2020-08-31 17:15:38	sandra	John McCarthy > Joseph McCarty
2020-08-31 17:17:30	ℹ 	drskrzyk_ is now known as drskrzyk
2020-08-31 17:19:43	felix	:D
2020-08-31 17:20:47	sandra	I was never into Gopher but I am nostalgic AF for the pre-HTML 3.2 web. My https front page is pretty much justa bunch of direct links to png-files and the texts are pretty pared down HTML. Happy to "bi-host" on Gemini too. I think it can be cozy AF to browse around on Gemini
2020-08-31 17:21:44	felix	Sounds good!
2020-08-31 17:22:12	felix	I wrote two Gopher clients, and recently praised the HTML 3.2 era.
2020-08-31 17:22:40	sloum	What clients, felix? Would I have maybe used one?
2020-08-31 17:23:56	sandra	To me the whole CSS thing was a breath of fresh air; I don't have fond memories of FONT-FAMILY and spacer gifs :) But pre-HTML 3.2 OTOH... ♥♥ gray backgrounds, blue and purple links♥
2020-08-31 17:24:59	sandra	For me growing up, Internet was mostly mailing lists and IRC (and Usenet but I'm not nostalgic for that at all). Homepages were like a short bio, maybe some poems, fan art, fanfics…
2020-08-31 17:25:38	sandra	I don't mean to be butting heads with you, Felix :) I get that Gemini is connected to the Gopher community in many ways
2020-08-31 17:26:20	sloum	I think all of the protocols ahve their place and their function. nothing wrong with someone liking one and not another. People should use the tools as tools (and just use the ones that accomplish their goals).
2020-08-31 17:27:03	sloum	I am glad to see more and more people questioning the modern web. Though I wish that trend would start to extend to more than just technically minded folks.
2020-08-31 17:29:10	sandra	I agree with that last sentence especially
2020-08-31 17:29:19	felix	sloum: Pocket Gopher for J2ME (not the Android client), and Gophersnake.
2020-08-31 17:29:46	felix	And yeah, these days it's mostly Gemini clients also supporting Gopher.
2020-08-31 17:30:00	felix	Because why not, and/or for old days' sake.
2020-08-31 17:30:05	sloum	Oh! I had forgotten! I amde a PR into gophersnake awhile back, adding gif support.
2020-08-31 17:30:32	felix	That was you? Most grateful.
2020-08-31 17:30:40	sloum	:-D
2020-08-31 17:31:00	sloum	That was around the time I wrote my first client (my only graphical one).
2020-08-31 17:31:26	felix	Good work!
2020-08-31 17:31:59	sloum	Have you written one for gemini?
2020-08-31 17:32:34	felix	Nope, it seems kinda pointless. Existing clients are already great.
2020-08-31 17:32:51	sloum	There are definitely a lot to choose from. Flavors for all tastes.
2020-08-31 17:33:04	felix	sandra: the Internet is a lot more than just the web, so that's fair.
2020-08-31 17:34:08	felix	sloum: we live an age of plenty. When I wrote Gophersnake, it was the only one that was remotely modern like that.
2020-08-31 17:34:13	sandra	I'd spend hours & hours on mailing lists and IRC, I was in a few communities that way. That was my teens♥
2020-08-31 17:35:25	felix	:)
2020-08-31 17:35:46	sandra	I started using IRC again a month ago or so (I mean, I've had it running for Bitlbee all these years but that's it).
2020-08-31 17:35:58	felix	Yeah, I only got online in 1999. Had to learn about the rest.
2020-08-31 17:36:43	sandra	You got online in 1999 and you still wrote Gophersnake! Wow, yeah, I can see how that could happen. I've been into older versions of D&D and older versions of Lisp
2020-08-31 17:36:43	sloum	I was online in 95 or so, but I mostly just used the web to search for anime images on lycos, lol.
2020-08-31 17:37:06	sloum	Then making websites for my bands in high school. No IRC till much after it had fallen out of favor with popular culture.
2020-08-31 17:37:25	felix	<3
2020-08-31 17:39:31	felix	There are so many awesome stories from the old days.
2020-08-31 17:39:54	felix	That's the spirit we're all trying to rekindle I think.
2020-08-31 17:41:12	sandra	I never got on the silo social media like Facebook, Twitter... I've been kinda out of the loop mostly. Forums, I've been on though.
2020-08-31 17:41:17	sloum	Definitely. The internet (and in this case I suppose I mostly mean the web) felt so magical in those days. It felt more collaborative. I miss the days where there was no concept of online shopping (at elast not one that anybody trusted).
2020-08-31 17:41:45	sandra	I've been hitting that same "magic" a lot lately with things like Gemini. It's awesome
2020-08-31 17:41:46	sloum	I liked forums. I also like web pages using pagination instead of f***ing infinite scroll.
2020-08-31 17:41:56	felix	^
2020-08-31 17:42:09	sloum	Yeah! I think gemini and gopher both keep that spirit alive. just lots of folks being weird and quirky and sharing with each other.
2020-08-31 17:42:15	felix	I ran forums for friends. Would do it again in a heartbeat.
2020-08-31 17:43:32	felix	And here in these spaces I can just hop from link to link reading.
2020-08-31 17:43:58	felix	Exploring the rabbit hole and not caring where it leads.
2020-08-31 17:45:25	dctrud	Forums used to be fun. Was involved in running the guild of students / student union site web stuff at university. We had a very active forum community for a bit.
2020-08-31 17:45:34	felix	Oh, cool!
2020-08-31 17:45:39	dctrud	Just before Facebook opened up to non-US universities
2020-08-31 17:46:39	dctrud	Used to look after the main student union web site, and also the hosting used by student societies. Plus hosting for the radio station and student TV station
2020-08-31 17:46:45	felix	I know a few that are doing well right now. And one that's dying out.
2020-08-31 17:46:58	felix	Though forums seem to be doing better than wikis overall.
2020-08-31 17:47:21	felix	Oh, a webmaster in the old sense of the word.
2020-08-31 17:47:22	sloum	With the exception of Wikipedia I assume.
2020-08-31 17:47:46	felix	Arguably.
2020-08-31 17:48:42	dctrud	Questionable web design back then though... by me/us :-) https://web.archive.org/web/20040604145900/http://xnet.ex.ac.uk/content/
2020-08-31 17:49:11	sloum	I dunno, that looks about right for the listed time period.
2020-08-31 17:49:27	felix	^
2020-08-31 17:49:42		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-08-31 17:50:01	dctrud	We had t-shirts in the bright yellow too. Heh.
2020-08-31 17:50:26	felix	Hee!
2020-08-31 17:51:39	dctrud	After my time I think it continued on until 2007ish, then rapidly fizzled out as people used Facebook and so on instead
2020-08-31 17:51:58	felix	We all fell into that trap for a while. :(
2020-08-31 17:52:21	felix	I became a WordPress developer. Made my own CMS, too. What a trap.
2020-08-31 17:52:41	sandra	I lost a lot of friends when Facebook became a thing. Suddenly I stopped getting invited to things. Which, OK, I wasn't an un-asshole back then so I think people kinda happily didn't make that much of an effort to invite me, but it hit me kinda suddenly and I didn't realize what was going on
2020-08-31 17:52:41	dctrud	The student union contracted a firm who were really a marketing agency to make a flash but content-less site. Students no longer did the site themselves etc. Sad, but that's how it all went around then.
2020-08-31 17:52:57	felix	Blogged for years on My Opera. All tears in the rain now.
2020-08-31 17:54:26	felix	sandra: to people on FB, we don't exist. To us, they don't exist.
2020-08-31 17:54:32	dctrud	I think what's fun about gemini to me is it's individuals or small groups doing their own thing, like more of the web used to be. Not so much the specific topics or aesthetic, just the more personal feel.
2020-08-31 17:54:38	felix	We have all the rest of the internet.
2020-08-31 17:55:02	sandra	FB is pretty much over these days
2020-08-31 17:55:13	dctrud	Heh, sadly I do exist on FB - otherwise I'd miss important info from my kid's school
2020-08-31 17:55:18	felix	Well, Gemini is a small world for now. Though I think there's more.
2020-08-31 17:55:34	felix	sandra: hopefully.
2020-08-31 17:56:31	felix	Neocities isn't half bad, in fact there are cool people there too.
2020-08-31 17:57:47	dctrud	have a good day all, I must head back to Zoom-land
2020-08-31 17:57:55	sandra	Nice meeting you
2020-08-31 17:57:59	dctrud	cheers, and you!
2020-08-31 17:58:02	sloum	I've had trouble with the idea of things like neocities. On the one hand it is very cool (I used both geocities and angelfire back in the day), but on the other it still exists within the web. I think I would prefer that it were a separate thing.
2020-08-31 17:58:16	sloum	Have a good one dctrud
2020-08-31 17:58:23		dctrud has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-31 17:58:52	felix	There's Flounder, for what it's worth.
2020-08-31 17:58:55	sandra	I like smaller rooms, smaller groups. Talking with each other instead of tryna build an audience, get "followers". But I don't like it when technical-mindedness is the password to those smaller rooms.
2020-08-31 17:59:17	sandra	Being web-based can be a lower barrier to entry I would assume. I personally hate the web
2020-08-31 17:59:32	felix	That's where Gemini can help. It's much simpler than Markdown, let alone HTML.
2020-08-31 17:59:49	felix	Though I do think a little bit of HTML isn't that hard to learn.
2020-08-31 17:59:54	felix	And worth the effort.
2020-08-31 18:00:10	felix	I taught it to beginners. People are smart. They don't mind.
2020-08-31 18:00:20	sandra	It was very difficult to get on Gemini for me. The list of software was… On Gemini.
2020-08-31 18:01:16	sandra	There was an SSH kiosk but most of the software that it linked to was on https and those links didn't work, it didn't even show you the URLs.
2020-08-31 18:01:20	felix	I learned about Bombadillo from the Ctrl-C.club docs.
2020-08-31 18:01:25	sandra	The web proxies were down
2020-08-31 18:01:50	felix	Ugh. Sorry to hear that.
2020-08-31 18:02:31	sandra	I managed to find one client, a kind of wonky one, and from there I could find the longer list of clients and servers
2020-08-31 18:03:39	sandra	So I should ask solderpunk to put the list of software on https too. I get that some of the links are Gemini but many of them were https links to various git-hosting places. It's a boot strapping issue
2020-08-31 18:04:47	sandra	The world's tiniest violin♥
2020-08-31 18:05:05	sandra	Just saying that the gmi text format wasn't the issue :)
2020-08-31 18:05:34	felix	For what it's worth, my capsule on Flounder links to Kristall.
2020-08-31 18:06:08	felix	Bombadillo only has a web page, strangely enough.
2020-08-31 18:06:39	sloum	gopher://bombadillo.gopher (on openNic; or: gopher://bombadillo.colorfield.space)
2020-08-31 18:07:11	felix	Oh! I didn't think to check on *Gopher*. :P
2020-08-31 18:07:21	sandra	Right, but as opposed to on gemini://
2020-08-31 18:08:10	felix	I keep forgetting it's primarily a Gopher client.
2020-08-31 18:08:13	sandra	People can love limits, like Twitter took off like wildfire because the original crowd was attracted to the, what was it, 140? IDK I never had Twitter. So the gmi format itself can become much loved I think
2020-08-31 18:08:30	sloum	My gemini server doesnt support virtual hosts, so I ahve been unable to host bombadillo on gemini _and_ host gemlog.blue on the same machine.
2020-08-31 18:08:37	felix	That was it, yeah. Until a few months ago in fact.
2020-08-31 18:08:40	sloum	I havent wanted to set up another machine, so it is gopher and web right now.
2020-08-31 18:09:00	felix	Fair enough.
2020-08-31 18:09:17	sloum	I suppose I could set something up on finger though, lol.
2020-08-31 18:09:33	felix	sandra: Ironically, I once considered a wiki markup a lot like gemtext.
2020-08-31 18:09:51	felix	But dismissed it for being too limited.
2020-08-31 18:11:09	sloum	Soooooo much conversation for so long was about the limited nature of the text/gemini format. Many wanted more, many wanted less. I am pretty happy with where it has landed.
2020-08-31 18:11:23	felix	Me too!
2020-08-31 18:11:52	sloum	I think solderpunk has done an amazing job of managing the push for growth/more and has exercised a lot of restraint, to the betterment of the protocol.
2020-08-31 18:12:09	sandra	Did it start out with more or with less?
2020-08-31 18:12:29	sloum	It was kind of organic for a bit and people were testing out ideas.
2020-08-31 18:12:42	sloum	At one point there were numbered and unnumbered lists that supported nesting.
2020-08-31 18:13:12	felix	Far as I can tell, the idea is that you can parse gemtext just by looking at the first 1-3 characters of each line.
2020-08-31 18:13:30	sandra	Well, it has state, like whether you're in a pre block or not
2020-08-31 18:13:49	sloum	That has become a big part of it. I think the goal, more than that, is that a novice programmer should be able to write a parser for it easily.
2020-08-31 18:13:52	sloum	In any language.
2020-08-31 18:14:03	felix	Yes, but no having to hunt for inline markup with regular expressions or anything.
2020-08-31 18:14:06	sloum	Yeah. That one was a question as well.
2020-08-31 18:14:30	felix	It can't be helped. It's also not hard. I wrote Org Mode parsers.
2020-08-31 18:14:36	felix	Those are rather more tricky.
2020-08-31 18:14:41	sloum	hahaha totally.
2020-08-31 18:14:49	sandra	Yeah I've also written an org mode parser, recently actually!
2020-08-31 18:14:51	sandra	♥
2020-08-31 18:14:56	felix	Good work!
2020-08-31 18:14:59	sloum	I'm not an emacs user (vim for the win), but I have used org a bit and can imagine the parser being a pain.
2020-08-31 18:15:02	sandra	Not a full one so far but it can handle the trees
2020-08-31 18:15:23	felix	Same! Two of my friends use it, so.
2020-08-31 18:15:39	sandra	I wrote & used https://github.com/johnwcowan/r7rs-work/blob/master/TreesCowan.md with the help of jcowan for purps of working with org-mode
2020-08-31 18:15:49	sandra	It can't like, read due dates or tags
2020-08-31 18:15:52	felix	I looked into maybe writing text adventures with it.
2020-08-31 18:15:56	sandra	It does read the todo state
2020-08-31 18:16:20	sandra	Oh I've done simple choose-your-own-adventure ones based on org in the past
2020-08-31 18:16:36	sandra	I exported it to XOXO and used JavaScript. This was before I knew that XOXO was patented
2020-08-31 18:16:49	felix	Cool!
2020-08-31 18:17:53	sandra	He hasn't imported my actual code yet, just the spec. But it's at gemini://idiomdrottning.org/tree.scm
2020-08-31 18:18:25	sandra	I, uh, I put a lot of stuff into Gemini… :D
2020-08-31 18:18:30	⚡	sandra got kinda carried away
2020-08-31 18:18:55	felix	Can't blame you!
2020-08-31 18:19:24	sandra	That's not the org stuff (ironing out bugs on that one), that's just the tree library
2020-08-31 18:19:31	felix	Right!
2020-08-31 18:25:26	felix	Well, I should sleep one of these days. See you!
2020-08-31 18:25:48	sandra	Same!
2020-08-31 18:26:07		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-08-31 18:26:13	sloum	Haha it is morning here. Have a good night! It was nice talking to you both.
2020-08-31 18:26:44	sandra	It's 2026 here
2020-08-31 18:27:38	sloum	It is later than I though here: 1127
2020-08-31 18:29:43	@ben	,time
2020-08-31 18:29:53	@ben	oh interesting tildebot isn't here
2020-08-31 18:29:55	@ben	i figured he was
2020-08-31 18:30:31	@ben	PST sloum?
2020-08-31 18:30:35	sloum	Yup
2020-08-31 18:32:53	ℹ 	Notice(cosmic.tilde.chat): *** ben invited tildebot into the channel
2020-08-31 18:32:53	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 18:33:00	@ben	tildebot: time
2020-08-31 18:33:00	tildebot	[Time] Time for ben: 2020-08-31 14:33:00 UTC-4
2020-08-31 19:05:49		rmgr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 19:05:49	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 19:25:35	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 19:29:49		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 19:29:59		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 19:59:50	makeworld	tildebot: time
2020-08-31 19:59:50	tildebot	[Time] makeworld: Please set location, e.g.: ,config makeworld location London, GB
2020-08-31 20:00:06	makeworld	,config makeworld location Toronto
2020-08-31 20:00:07	tildebot	[Config] Config 'location' set to {'timezone': 'America/Toronto', 'lat': 43.6534817, 'lon': -79.3839347, 'name': 'Toronto, Ontario, Canada'}
2020-08-31 20:00:11	makeworld	tildebot: time
2020-08-31 20:00:11	tildebot	[Time] Time for makeworld: 2020-08-31 16:00:11 UTC-4
2020-08-31 20:00:16	makeworld	Kewl
2020-08-31 20:01:25	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 20:05:31		sloum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 20:11:46	⚡	ben waves across lake huron
2020-08-31 20:17:47	michel	kensanata: howdy! I should have realized earlier that Gemini folks would hang out on IRC
2020-08-31 20:18:40	▬▬▶	sloum has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 20:20:28	omni	,config omni location nowhere
2020-08-31 20:20:29	tildebot	[Config] Config 'location' set to {'timezone': 'Europe/London', 'lat': 52.7395569, 'lon': 1.0826808, 'name': 'Broadland, England, United Kingdom'}
2020-08-31 20:20:36	omni	,config omni location null
2020-08-31 20:20:37	tildebot	[Config] Config 'location' set to {'timezone': 'Europe/Berlin', 'lat': 51.3258094, 'lon': 11.3400106, 'name': 'Thuringia, Germany'}
2020-08-31 20:20:47	omni	hmm...
2020-08-31 20:26:04		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-08-31 20:28:57	michel	omni: where does this location get used?
2020-08-31 20:29:41	michel	curious because ctrl-c has a script running to do something similar but ... it never outputs my location (need to find some time to debug it) http://ctrl-c.club/~bear/where.html
2020-08-31 20:36:44	omni	michel: not  sure I understand  the question
2020-08-31 20:36:48	omni	,help
2020-08-31 20:36:48	tildebot	[Help] I'm https://bitbot.dev. use ',modules' to list modules, ',commands <module>' to list commands and ',help <command>' to see help text for a command
2020-08-31 20:36:53	omni	https://github.com/jesopo/bitbot/blob/master/modules/location.py
2020-08-31 20:37:08	omni	https://opencagedata.com/api
2020-08-31 20:37:19	michel	omni: oh, I'm curious what the location configuration is used for. thanks for the link
2020-08-31 20:37:20		sloum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-08-31 20:39:49	omni	I just poked around a bit, wanting to set tz to utc and noticed that the bot used this data
2020-08-31 20:40:46	omni	,config omni location NQ4
2020-08-31 20:40:47	tildebot	[Config] Config 'location' set to {'timezone': 'Asia/Colombo', 'lat': 6.9739071, 'lon': 80.7792292, 'name': 'Nuwara Eliya, Central Province, Sri Lanka'}
2020-08-31 20:43:22	omni	michel: besied looking at the code,you can query the bot in a private chat to see what  it can do
2020-08-31 20:44:20	omni	location is possibly used for more things than just giving you a personalised time repy, but I'm too lazy/tired to investigate
2020-08-31 20:45:25	omni	(just look at my spelling of "besides" to see how tired I am)
2020-08-31 21:11:57	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 21:20:35	lukee	a new toy for everyone
2020-08-31 21:21:20	lukee	I present the Duckling Proxy 🦆
2020-08-31 21:21:21	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/31-Aug-2020_The_Duckling_Proxy.gmi
2020-08-31 21:30:22		StygianBlues has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-08-31 21:32:15	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 21:42:11		lain has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-08-31 21:42:26	▬▬▶	lain has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 21:51:51	makeworld	lukee: Glad to see the go modules stuff worked out! Any hiccups?
2020-08-31 21:52:24	lukee	probably - I now need to update one of the linked libraries
2020-08-31 21:52:48	makeworld	go get should do the trick, just specify the new tag
2020-08-31 21:52:59	makeworld	go get example.com/user/repo@v1.2.3
2020-08-31 21:53:14	makeworld	Or @commit or @branch
2020-08-31 21:53:39	makeworld	Was there anything I missed in my email? Cause I want to turn it into a post
2020-08-31 21:53:39	lukee	I can just update the go.mod file with this and then do a go get?
2020-08-31 21:53:53	makeworld	I don't think so
2020-08-31 21:53:58	lukee	Your post was really helpful
2020-08-31 21:54:06	makeworld	I try to stay away from editing the files directly
2020-08-31 21:54:10	makeworld	Thanks!
2020-08-31 21:54:42	lukee	so how does one indicate you want to use an updated dependency now?
2020-08-31 21:55:11	makeworld	go get example.com/user/repo@v1.2.3 , and then run go mod tidy to clean up
2020-08-31 21:55:11	lukee	(sorry I should just read the docs!)
2020-08-31 21:55:22	makeworld	Nah it's okay. The docs are annoying lol
2020-08-31 21:55:51	makeworld	Just use the @ syntax to specify what version you want
2020-08-31 21:55:59	lukee	so that would pull in the 1.2.3 of the linked module into the current package?
2020-08-31 21:56:37	makeworld	Yes, and go mod tidy would make sure you don't reference the old version in go.sum or anywhere
2020-08-31 21:56:58	lukee	ok thanks - I'll try it out. This is all new to me
2020-08-31 21:57:13	makeworld	You got it :)
2020-08-31 22:11:11	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 22:28:41	lukee	I think I managed to add modules to some more of my Git repos
2020-08-31 22:29:00	lukee	so far, no problems
2020-08-31 22:36:46	lukee	makeworld: if you feel like writing a blog post on Go modules for the uninitiated, I will be your first reader!
2020-08-31 22:38:37	acdw	I'll be second :P
2020-08-31 22:50:58		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-08-31 22:54:15	makeworld	lukee: Great! And sure, I'll send the link here when I write it :)
2020-08-31 23:08:11	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 23:12:30	lukee	Got to head to bed now - bye o/
2020-08-31 23:12:35		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-08-31 23:25:28	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 23:25:53	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-08-31 23:47:20		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-09-01 00:17:59	dctrud	oh darn... moving my stuff to a different machine messed up my atom feed, so everything re-appeared at Capcom. Apologies!
2020-09-01 00:20:25	djph	oops
2020-09-01 00:35:00	kline	is there anyone else who is unable to revoke certificate trust in kristall ?
2020-09-01 00:38:00	kline	after revoking trust in a cert in settings, then immediately reopening settings, the cert has reappeared with the original date seen, which makes some capsules unbrowsable
2020-09-01 01:22:16		dctrud has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-01 01:40:55	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 01:53:08	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 02:46:29	easeout	duckling proxy sounds cool, looking forward to trying it out
2020-09-01 02:46:36		dmolliae has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-01 02:48:44	▬▬▶	dmolliae has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 03:04:07		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-01 03:47:14	▬▬▶	epoch_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 03:48:31		epoch has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by epoch_))
2020-09-01 03:48:31	ℹ 	epoch_ is now known as epoch
2020-09-01 03:51:03	▬▬▶	epoch_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 03:51:32		epoch has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by epoch_))
2020-09-01 03:51:32	ℹ 	epoch_ is now known as epoch
2020-09-01 03:52:27		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-01 04:38:11		dmolliae has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-01 04:38:47	▬▬▶	dmolliae has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 07:21:57	ℹ 	julienxx_ is now known as julienxx
2020-09-01 07:21:57	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-09-01 07:22:19	@julienxx	hello geminauts
2020-09-01 07:39:48	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 08:13:27		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-01 08:22:26	dkibi	heyo!
2020-09-01 08:46:17	sandra	Hi!
2020-09-01 08:46:47	sandra	Wow, me replying an hour late :) I was cleaning my windows
2020-09-01 08:47:13	sandra	Not sure how often other people do it but I think it's like the fifth time for me since I moved here 8 years ago :)
2020-09-01 08:47:34	sandra	They look OK now, last time I tried to do it they ended up looking streaked and worse than before
2020-09-01 09:01:33	omni	I'd like to say I do it every year, but I don't
2020-09-01 09:01:54	omni	also depends on where you live, I guess
2020-09-01 09:03:30	dkibi	I dislike cleaning windows, this constant feeling of "I'm about to fall out of the window"
2020-09-01 09:03:35	dkibi	I love cleaning mirrors though.
2020-09-01 09:04:28	omni	"I'm about to fall into myself"?
2020-09-01 09:04:50	dkibi	^^
2020-09-01 09:06:03	dkibi	I still haven't fixed the certs on my capsule. Yesterday when I was about to sit down of my computer my partner found a facebook post where somebody disoved a store and left a ton of funiture near the street for everyone to take.
2020-09-01 09:06:17	dkibi	it was on the other side of town and we don't have a car ^^
2020-09-01 09:11:44	dkibi	we went to bed at 1AM but as proud owners of two more shelves
2020-09-01 09:12:54	djph	yay?
2020-09-01 09:17:34	dkibi	Now I'm happy about having them, thought differently about it yesterday night ^^
2020-09-01 09:23:34	sandra	Cleaning mirrors is much more fun than cleaning windows
2020-09-01 09:23:54	sandra	Also the mirror is hopefully more stationary than an open window on hinges
2020-09-01 09:24:39	sandra	Some zen sanghas use "Polish the mirror" as a way to describe the post-satori–practice.♥ Keep on maintaining that clarity
2020-09-01 09:25:01	sandra	Congratulations on the shelves♥
2020-09-01 09:27:05	sandra	Pleroma has an optional Gopher frontend that I haven't enabled (even though it's read-only) because their Gopher interface doesn't use TLS if I understand things correctly. Maybe if they did a Gemini version♥
2020-09-01 09:27:06	sandra	Otoh I'm still not sure how good Gemini's self-signed certs are, seems like they could be susceptible to MitM-style attacks? Uh. Not to slag Gemini of course! Just not sure how it works.
2020-09-01 09:27:16	dkibi	I assume they don't talk about the chemical smell of the cleaning product which I hapen to like
2020-09-01 09:27:26	sandra	The one thing I would change is that I would've wanted • instead of * for lists
2020-09-01 09:27:42	sandra	Oh, I just use ordinary dish washing soap
2020-09-01 09:27:43	dkibi	+p
2020-09-01 09:27:44	sandra	Lime-smelling
2020-09-01 09:28:05	sandra	What is "+p"?
2020-09-01 09:28:33	dkibi	it's the missing p in "hapen" :P
2020-09-01 09:28:39	sandra	:D
2020-09-01 09:35:22	dkibi	they are suspectible to MitM attacks the first time you visit a gemini site. then they are supposed to be remembered. I think it's still not clear what is the best way to replace certificates though.
2020-09-01 09:36:40	sandra	Huh… But anytime could be _someone's_ first time. Or with a new client etc.
2020-09-01 09:37:32	djph	it's self-signed, or use e.g. letsencrypt
2020-09-01 09:37:32	sandra	I haven't been protocol level hacking in a looooong  time and not in a hurry to get into doing so. I'll leave it to the other bright minds♥
2020-09-01 09:38:05	sandra	Right, I have letsencrypt on other services but used a self-signed for gemini
2020-09-01 09:38:11	dkibi	yeah
2020-09-01 09:38:44	sandra	If letsencrypt could become the norm that'd solve the problem. Once certbot does Gemini :)
2020-09-01 09:39:03	dkibi	on the other hand you don't have to trust central parties, it's a compromise
2020-09-01 09:42:10	sandra	So the good part of crypto: hiding from the ISP (and your boyfriend if he is the snooping kind) what requests you are sending, that part we still get on Gemini. Just that the susceptibility to MitM makes me not in too much of a hurry to put, uh, "communication" (messages and such) and similar things there. I even have some of my source code on Gemini now but if people want to be sure it's the real deal and not get M
2020-09-01 09:42:10	sandra	itM'ed, they need to clone the repos.
2020-09-01 09:42:39	djph	or just sign the package and call it a day
2020-09-01 09:43:03	djph	same basic idea as just using http
2020-09-01 09:43:45	djph	TBH, using TLS with a push to "use selfsigned" would've just been smarter to implement as "it's in the clear"
2020-09-01 09:54:25	sandra	From what book series is "Tanelorn"? I see it on gemspace but it's also something my ex would talk about
2020-09-01 10:01:55	sandra	ELRIC! Of course!
2020-09-01 10:08:35	CommunistWolf	I just use a valid cert *shrug*
2020-09-01 10:20:35		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-01 10:58:13	▬▬▶	autumnova has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 11:58:08		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-01 11:58:08		scifi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-01 11:58:08		dokuja has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-01 11:58:08		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-01 12:02:18	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 12:35:58	▬▬▶	dmolliae_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 12:37:18	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 12:37:18	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 12:37:18	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 12:37:18	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 12:39:02		dmolliae has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-01 12:41:16		dmolliae_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-01 13:06:10	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 13:59:16	@tomasino	with tilde.black shut down i've migrated my gemini capsule over to tilde.team
2020-09-01 13:59:21	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.team/~tomasino
2020-09-01 14:09:39	felix	Yikes?
2020-09-01 14:09:49	login	you were a threat to the providers who charged for storage
2020-09-01 14:10:00	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 14:10:27	felix	:D
2020-09-01 14:10:42		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-01 14:12:32	sandra	tomasino: Dvorak FTW!! I switch when I was 19 yo!
2020-09-01 14:12:46	sandra	I lost a job as a translator because I was struggling w/ the new layout :D
2020-09-01 14:13:02	sandra	Buuuut I've been happy with Dvorak for 21 years now! Over half a life of Dvorak!
2020-09-01 14:13:18	sandra	Religious life!♥♥♥♥♥ Same here!
2020-09-01 14:13:27	felix	Hee!
2020-09-01 14:13:49	felix	Oh, sandra, I brought my RPG over to Gemini.
2020-09-01 14:14:01	sandra	Oh that is amazing!
2020-09-01 14:14:38	felix	You're very kind.
2020-09-01 14:17:06	sandra	What's the url?
2020-09-01 14:18:25	felix	gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~nttp/writing/bb2/
2020-09-01 14:19:03	sandra	Wow, this is baller!
2020-09-01 14:19:52	@tomasino	:D
2020-09-01 14:20:00	felix	^^;
2020-09-01 14:20:05	@tomasino	sandra++
2020-09-01 14:20:16	sandra	Oh, yeah, CC-BY-SA 4.0 is what I meant to put most of my stuff under too. The https version has that in the meta data but I forgot to write that in the .gmi files for the Gemini version
2020-09-01 14:22:34	felix	Yeah, it's much easier when you can simply pick from a dropdown.
2020-09-01 14:24:01	login	which is a gui gemini client?
2020-09-01 14:24:29	epoch	castor
2020-09-01 14:24:32	epoch	kristall
2020-09-01 14:24:44	epoch	uhh, those are the two I remember.
2020-09-01 14:25:00	epoch	castor is written in rust, and kristall in C++ I think
2020-09-01 14:25:52	felix	Geminaut too, if you're on Windows.
2020-09-01 14:26:08	epoch	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall
2020-09-01 14:26:16	felix	^
2020-09-01 14:26:16	epoch	https://git.sr.ht/~julienxx/castor
2020-09-01 14:26:27	felix	But yeah, Kristall is my favorite now.
2020-09-01 14:27:04	@tomasino	kristall is written in Qt
2020-09-01 14:27:34	xq	dang, i shouldn't have set `kristall` to highlight me :D
2020-09-01 14:27:40	felix	Sorry!
2020-09-01 14:27:41	xq	it's pretty bright atm :D
2020-09-01 14:28:13	djph	xq: why not?  too many people talking about kristall at the moment? can't get any work done ? :)
2020-09-01 14:28:16	felix	tomasino: Qt is the GUI framework.
2020-09-01 14:28:22	xq	felix: no.
2020-09-01 14:28:25	@tomasino	^
2020-09-01 14:28:28	xq	Qt is *not* a GUI framework
2020-09-01 14:28:29	@tomasino	Qt is more than a GUI
2020-09-01 14:28:36	xq	QtWidgets is a gui framework built on top of Qt
2020-09-01 14:28:51	dkibi	but can you do the qt dance?
2020-09-01 14:28:52	⚡	tomasino has heard this particular rant from xq a few times now. :D
2020-09-01 14:28:54	xq	kristall doesn't use any library except for openssl to do some crypto work
2020-09-01 14:29:13	xq	the rest (async networking, async file i/o, ...) is Qts work
2020-09-01 14:29:31	companion_cube	dkibi: you're cruel :p
2020-09-01 14:31:00	dkibi	xD
2020-09-01 14:31:08	dkibi	I forgot that you're in here ^^
2020-09-01 14:31:47	xq	the world is damn small :D
2020-09-01 14:32:55	xq	we need more ziguanas in here!
2020-09-01 14:35:41	felix	I was thinking about that earlier today.
2020-09-01 14:36:14	dkibi	xq: companion_cube infected me
2020-09-01 14:36:37	sandra	Making monsters weaker on the fly is haram, Felix! (That's why I'm eagerly reading on)
2020-09-01 14:37:12	xq	dkibi, companion_cube: i wonder where phd is …
2020-09-01 14:37:14	sandra	I don't like fudging. My friend Vincent wrote this blog post: http://lumpley.com/index.php/anyway/thread/360
2020-09-01 14:37:43	felix	Wait, I'm confused now. :P
2020-09-01 14:38:03	sandra	Me too, I might need ta eat something
2020-09-01 14:38:07	sandra	I'm reading Battles & Balances
2020-09-01 14:38:25	sandra	And you're saying that in tabletop RPGs sometimes the DM can fudge to make a monster weaker on the fly
2020-09-01 14:38:35	sandra	You're neutrally describing a common practice
2020-09-01 14:38:38	felix	Glad you like it! And yes, I do.
2020-09-01 14:38:55	sandra	And I was just kibitzing that I don't enjoy that particular practice :)
2020-09-01 14:39:02	felix	Oh, okay!
2020-09-01 14:39:24	felix	Your friend's blog post however assumes what people want from an RPG.
2020-09-01 14:39:45	sandra	An assumption I'm also onboard with♥
2020-09-01 14:40:08	felix	Fair enough, but it varies a lot across the hobby.
2020-09-01 14:40:27	sandra	For the potions, if you quaff a similar one it says it deals 1d4+1 damage: does that mean to yourself, or?
2020-09-01 14:40:33	sandra	Or to every near-by standing skeleton
2020-09-01 14:41:07	felix	To yourself. That's the whole point, overdosing has consequences.
2020-09-01 14:42:33	sandra	I was playing a rogue-style game called Alchemical Dungeons where it was the nearbymonsters that got burninated so that's why I asked for the clarification—the "but" in the "but deals 1d4+1" clued me in that it might work a little bit differently in B&B
2020-09-01 14:43:19	felix	I'll have to look it up.
2020-09-01 14:43:46	sandra	Naw, if ya wanna add the "to yourself" or not is up to you. I trust your editing instincts
2020-09-01 14:44:11	felix	I mean the game. But thanks for pointing it out!
2020-09-01 14:46:55	sandra	I got on Gemini yesterday and on Fediverse today (there is a CLI client!) and it's making me realize how happy I am that gemspace doesn't have likes and favorites because they can easily get to my head I think
2020-09-01 14:47:38	epoch	I tried to build kristall. Got farther than last time.
2020-09-01 14:48:14	xq	epoch: where are the problems now?
2020-09-01 14:48:26	epoch	$ qmake ../src/kristall.pro
2020-09-01 14:48:27	epoch	Project ERROR: Unknown module(s) in QT: multimedia multimediawidgets
2020-09-01 14:48:31	xq	ah, well
2020-09-01 14:48:31	swift	i had no luck in building kristall (on macOS)
2020-09-01 14:48:35	xq	install multimedia modules :D
2020-09-01 14:48:58	felix	Oh yeah, toot isn't half bad for its age.
2020-09-01 14:49:11	sandra	I sent a patch to it today!
2020-09-01 14:49:13	epoch	well, yeah, but, from where?
2020-09-01 14:49:48	felix	And someone was criticizing likes on Neocities today.
2020-09-01 14:50:03	felix	Made me think how most social networks have them, except DreamWidth.
2020-09-01 14:50:05	xq	epoch: from your distro package manager :D
2020-09-01 14:50:10	sandra	It's not that I don't like getting likes, it's that I like it a little too much
2020-09-01 14:50:16	felix	:D
2020-09-01 14:50:59	epoch	"libqt5multimedia5 is already the newest version (5.14.2-2)."
2020-09-01 14:51:19	xq	which distro?
2020-09-01 14:51:22	epoch	debian
2020-09-01 14:51:27	epoch	sid
2020-09-01 14:51:28	xq	libqt5multimedia5-dev?
2020-09-01 14:51:35	epoch	already tried that.
2020-09-01 14:51:40	xq	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/blob/master/BUILDING.md#notes-for-ubuntu
2020-09-01 14:51:46	xq	maybe your deb is just too old? :D
2020-09-01 14:51:58	xq	ah no
2020-09-01 14:52:03	xq	sid sounds pretty new after googling :D
2020-09-01 14:52:10	epoch	maybe nobody has made a -dev package for sid yet?
2020-09-01 14:52:28	xq	hmm
2020-09-01 14:53:13	epoch	https://packages.debian.org/sid/qtmultimedia5-dev ?
2020-09-01 14:53:31	sandra	Wow, no lib!
2020-09-01 14:53:40	epoch	or 5 after the qt
2020-09-01 14:54:17	epoch	qmake is happy now
2020-09-01 14:55:51	epoch	in a `make` atm
2020-09-01 14:55:59	felix	Fingers crossed!
2020-09-01 14:56:15	felix	I've just been using the AppImage. >.>
2020-09-01 14:57:08	sandra	felix: Did you mean that toot is young or that it is old when you wrote "for its age"?
2020-09-01 14:57:46	felix	toot hasn't been updated in a couple of years, and it's falling behind.
2020-09-01 14:58:46	sandra	Oh I talked to the guy about that today
2020-09-01 14:59:10	felix	But it's not like I post polls more than once in a blue moon.
2020-09-01 14:59:12	sandra	He's setting up shop on sr.ht
2020-09-01 14:59:17	felix	Oh? Good to hear!
2020-09-01 14:59:22	felix	Everyone is, as of late.
2020-09-01 14:59:30	sandra	I'm not gonna though
2020-09-01 14:59:50	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 14:59:51	sandra	https://lists.sr.ht/~ihabunek/toot-discuss/patches/13020 ← I sent this♥
2020-09-01 15:00:03	sandra	Smallest patch in history :D
2020-09-01 15:00:18	sandra	Oh I see now that he has applied it
2020-09-01 15:00:29	xq	sandra: i did smaller patches :D
2020-09-01 15:00:39	xq	i think my smallest one was changing a single character and fixing a memory bug with it :D
2020-09-01 15:01:40	epoch	kristall runs
2020-09-01 15:01:45	xq	\o/
2020-09-01 15:02:02	felix	Congrats!
2020-09-01 15:02:29	sandra	Ken Thompson once said "One of my most productive days was throwing away 1,000 lines of code" ♥ but that's a big delta even if it's a small, uh, even if it's a negative… Hmm I guess the patch = diff = delta wouldn't be negative
2020-09-01 15:03:12	xq	yeah, deleting code is always very productive and good-feeling
2020-09-01 15:03:23	xq	(if that last word thingy is even legal in english, i don#t care)
2020-09-01 15:04:47	felix	It gets the point across.
2020-09-01 15:05:32	felix	I might set up shop on TildeGit, but eh. Forges are so much fuss.
2020-09-01 15:05:50	felix	It's hard to start over, and I'm wary of it. Also weary.
2020-09-01 15:07:43	sandra	If peeps want my repos I have them and they can pull and clone to their hearts content. And if they have issues or patches, I have email.
2020-09-01 15:20:06	felix	Anyway, glad to see I was wrong about toot.
2020-09-01 15:21:24	sandra	I mean that doesn't mean that he'll make a release or anything
2020-09-01 15:21:36	sandra	I popped into the IRC channel on freenode and he was there and replied to me right away
2020-09-01 15:21:44	sandra	And pretty much hand-held me through writing that entire patch :)
2020-09-01 15:22:04	felix	Awesome!
2020-09-01 15:25:26	@tomasino	that's really a great experience
2020-09-01 15:25:43	@tomasino	i like when people are helpful
2020-09-01 15:25:59	michel	xq: we have a Dead Code Society at work
2020-09-01 15:26:15	michel	You get a tshirt if you delete at least 1k lines
2020-09-01 15:26:22	xq	nice!
2020-09-01 15:27:22	michel	Sadly not enough to counterbalance people writing new code!
2020-09-01 15:27:24	michel	We use A/B testing and experiments super aggressively and... are not that good at cleaning up afterwards
2020-09-01 15:28:49	dkibi	I'm in a bit of a conflict with my boss, because I took our software and deleted a ton of broken stuff (certainly >1000 lines), but he says that he doesn't want things to get lost
2020-09-01 15:28:59	dkibi	I don't know why he's not happy with it being in the git history
2020-09-01 15:29:07	login	oh lol
2020-09-01 15:29:19	login	he doesnt know git
2020-09-01 15:30:12	sandra	:D
2020-09-01 15:30:39	sandra	Simplifying the codebase is a good thing dkibi
2020-09-01 15:30:51	sandra	Your boss amuses me, write more about his shenanigans please♥
2020-09-01 15:30:51	companion_cube	dkibi: moving to C++ yet? :p
2020-09-01 15:31:02	dkibi	he does, I think he just underestimates the negative impact having this cruft arround yet
2020-09-01 15:31:07	dkibi	companion_cube: xD
2020-09-01 15:31:17	acdw	hallo
2020-09-01 15:31:24	felix	Hey, hey.
2020-09-01 15:31:56	companion_cube	do it for the RAII!
2020-09-01 15:32:18	dkibi	companion_cube: xD
2020-09-01 15:32:24	dkibi	why not Zig :P
2020-09-01 15:32:39	companion_cube	tbh: C++ is easier to add incrementally, I think
2020-09-01 15:32:42	acdw	elisp
2020-09-01 15:32:54	companion_cube	first, refactor until it compiles in both C and C++, then start adding C++ stuff
2020-09-01 15:33:00	dkibi	TDAG new = DAG_dup(DAG_eq(a, b)); defer DAG_free(new); would be amazing
2020-09-01 15:33:12	dkibi	yeah
2020-09-01 15:33:45	companion_cube	agreed on the defer, RAII is nice too
2020-09-01 15:35:00	felix	Proof that manual memory management doesn't have to be hard.
2020-09-01 15:35:22	sandra	It's not that it's hard, it's that it's dangerous if you do mess things up
2020-09-01 15:35:53	felix	With RAII it's a lot harder.
2020-09-01 15:36:07	companion_cube	felix: well you can still forget to `defer`
2020-09-01 15:36:12	felix	And with move semantics you need the heap a lot less, too.
2020-09-01 15:36:17	sandra	Yeah, I don't understand the line that dkibi just posted or even what language that is
2020-09-01 15:36:35	companion_cube	RAII works great when you have nested stuff though, like a Vec of Vec
2020-09-01 15:36:41	companion_cube	sandra: it's ziglang.org/
2020-09-01 15:36:59	dkibi	sandra: yeah it doesn't translate well since it's specific stuff from the project I work on where companion_cube has context
2020-09-01 15:37:09	sandra	Oh, for great justice!
2020-09-01 15:37:28	companion_cube	is that from a comic?
2020-09-01 15:37:29	⚡	xq helps promting zig as well. People, use zig!
2020-09-01 15:37:33	dkibi	it's essentially C with a made up defer keyword (stolen from Zig). it executes code as soon as the current scope ends
2020-09-01 15:38:04	dkibi	we have a big reference counted datastrcuture (DAG) which has DAG_dup to increase the reference count and DAG_free to decrease it
2020-09-01 15:38:08	felix	Like D's scope guards then.
2020-09-01 15:39:08	sandra	companion_cube: It's from a video game, they say "For great justice, take off every ZIG"
2020-09-01 15:39:22	sandra	A zig is a type of space ship in that game
2020-09-01 15:39:58	companion_cube	oh it's a game? :o
2020-09-01 15:40:14	companion_cube	felix: pretty much
2020-09-01 15:40:26	xq	companion_cube: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us
2020-09-01 15:40:30	companion_cube	zig has a lot of similarities to D, even though andrewk doesn't want to admit it :p
2020-09-01 15:40:52	companion_cube	hu, that game
2020-09-01 15:41:01	xq	exactly :D
2020-09-01 15:41:36	michel	Zig looks nice. I wonder if C/C++ will ever get replaced though
2020-09-01 15:41:57	xq	michel: zig is the first language where i think it might actually replace C
2020-09-01 15:42:04	felix	That's hard. They're just too well suited for their task.
2020-09-01 15:42:07	companion_cube	or eat a part of its pie, more realistically
2020-09-01 15:42:40	felix	People seem to think Rust has a chance lately.
2020-09-01 15:42:54	michel	We need something simple enough to bootstrap - guix is doing a neat job there. They can bootstrap all the way to recent GCC starting with a tiny base of blobs
2020-09-01 15:42:57	companion_cube	for C++, yeah, a bit
2020-09-01 15:43:15	sandra	Mozilla fired all the Rust :( and while Agate compiled fine on my desktop, it wouldn't compile on my server (slightly older Debian)
2020-09-01 15:43:19	michel	Not sure how easy it is to bootstrap Rust. I suspect it's too complex
2020-09-01 15:43:23	sandra	I like Rust, though.
2020-09-01 15:43:33	michel	sandra: me too
2020-09-01 15:43:44	companion_cube	sandra: good thing rust is used and developped outside of mozilla!
2020-09-01 15:44:20	michel	Dropbox and FB use rust, at least
2020-09-01 15:45:05	dkibi	I'm quite happy how divierse the programing languages used by gemini related projects are
2020-09-01 15:45:21	felix	Really? Most seem to be in Go, Rust and Python.
2020-09-01 15:46:22	xq	there's a zig client! :D
2020-09-01 15:46:34	felix	Oh? Cool!
2020-09-01 15:46:39	griffin	There is also at least one server and client in Racket :P
2020-09-01 15:46:43	dkibi	Kristall uses C++, geminaut C#
2020-09-01 15:47:02	dkibi	wasn't there a Prolog server announced the other day?
2020-09-01 15:47:05	xq	http://github.com/masterQ32/gurl
2020-09-01 15:47:08	xq	it's outdated though
2020-09-01 15:47:14	xq	and yeah that prolog server was impressiv a.f.
2020-09-01 15:47:38	companion_cube	felix: that's already quite diverse :p
2020-09-01 15:48:04	companion_cube	maybe there could be some jvm stuff in there, but well
2020-09-01 15:50:20	felix	That's all right, there's some stuff in shell script. :P
2020-09-01 15:51:21	xq	there's even tomasino+my server written in shell with ncat :D
2020-09-01 15:53:30	felix	Gemini has a lot of people excited. And it's so easy to work with.
2020-09-01 15:54:12	companion_cube	TLS excepted, but yes :p
2020-09-01 15:54:38	epoch	I use stunnel and a shell-script as my gemini server
2020-09-01 15:54:55	epoch	cuz stunnel can do the "required" SNI
2020-09-01 15:55:40	felix	Yeah, TLS is a bit of a hurdle.
2020-09-01 15:56:57	felix	Good thing I'm focusing on gemtext for now.
2020-09-01 15:57:37	felix	Wait a minute... Can xinetd handle TLS?
2020-09-01 15:58:32	epoch	it might be able to do TLS, but doubt SNI
2020-09-01 15:59:32	felix	Oh well.
2020-09-01 15:59:37	epoch	you can have xinetd run stunnel, but then the stunnel can't do SNI
2020-09-01 16:01:38	companion_cube	is TLS the reason why all the gemini pages load slowly for me, btw?
2020-09-01 16:01:54	companion_cube	cause it seems like it should load instantly otherwise…
2020-09-01 16:03:04	felix	If you're connecting to an older server from a newer machine...
2020-09-01 16:03:20	felix	Then you'll notice this delay in everything: SSH, you name it.
2020-09-01 16:03:57	companion_cube	idk, a simple http server is really fast
2020-09-01 16:04:14	felix	I don't know enough about it, some sort of protocol negotiation?
2020-09-01 16:04:25	companion_cube	I guess it's to validate certificates
2020-09-01 16:04:33	epoch	I think there's at least an extra round trip to setup the crypto. I don't remember specifics.
2020-09-01 16:04:40	felix	Because if you try from a machine as old as the server, it's instant.
2020-09-01 16:05:20	griffin	TLS is a 4 way handshake, but it shouldn't take noticeably longer to establish a connection
2020-09-01 16:05:38	companion_cube	ok, maybe it's that people use old machines to host gemini stuff indeed
2020-09-01 16:06:38	felix	ctrl-c.club definitely is. And I've seen the same with my ancient Mageia 4.
2020-09-01 16:06:52	felix	A modern Debian 10 takes its time connecting to either.
2020-09-01 16:07:06	acdw	i wonder if there's any VPS providers out there that host exclusively on ancient hardware
2020-09-01 16:07:13	felix	Puppy Linux 6.3.5 "Slacko" connects right away.
2020-09-01 16:07:21	acdw	"we have racks of servers we found in an abandoned warehouse ten years ago"
2020-09-01 16:07:25	companion_cube	felix: I don't see why the age of the client should matter
2020-09-01 16:07:27	felix	:D
2020-09-01 16:07:33	acdw	"the lights keep blinking so ... yeah, they're good"
2020-09-01 16:07:50	felix	companion_cube: Dunno, but it's obviously happening.
2020-09-01 16:08:23	felix	And if you try the other way around, from the old machine to a new one...
2020-09-01 16:08:28	felix	It doesn't work at all.
2020-09-01 16:09:47	epoch	my gemini site loads slow because it is on a raspi and written in shell script
2020-09-01 16:10:00	acdw	epoch: can you share that shell script? does it do routing?
2020-09-01 16:10:01	epoch	like, a raspi 1, not a raspi 4 or whatever they have now.
2020-09-01 16:10:06	acdw	oh the og
2020-09-01 16:10:22	epoch	what do you mean by routing?
2020-09-01 16:10:50	epoch	the shell-script?
2020-09-01 16:10:54	epoch	or, the raspi?
2020-09-01 16:13:57	acdw	the shell script
2020-09-01 16:14:59	acdw	like, on tomasino's server, it just serves up the one page. At some point I want to figure out routing, like a full bash server --- it says "oh you want example.com/page1, I'll giveyou that"
2020-09-01 16:15:16	epoch	oh. it can do that.
2020-09-01 16:15:18	epoch	:)
2020-09-01 16:15:29	epoch	it can do vhosts and proxying
2020-09-01 16:15:50	acdw	oh rad
2020-09-01 16:15:52	acdw	i'd love to see it!
2020-09-01 16:16:59	epoch	hrm. looks like some of my network stuff is borked
2020-09-01 16:18:47	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/shell-daemons/blob/master/geminid
2020-09-01 16:19:01	epoch	it might be a bit ugly
2020-09-01 16:19:41	epoch	and I had to change a bit of stunnel's source to get the SSL_TLS_SNI variable into the environment.
2020-09-01 16:22:34	acdw	aw yeah
2020-09-01 16:22:58	acdw	glorious
2020-09-01 16:23:21	acdw	wait I thought geminid was in ... C? Or is this *your* geminid?
2020-09-01 16:23:25	felix	I'm glad there are nice people hosting servers for the rest of us.
2020-09-01 16:23:34	epoch	this is just mine
2020-09-01 16:23:47	epoch	I don't have to worry about naming conflicts if I don't intend to share
2020-09-01 16:24:16	acdw	oh okay cool. do you mind if i use something like this for an as-yet non-provisioned server?
2020-09-01 16:24:47	epoch	ALL CODE IS COPYRIGHT ME. ONLY A NO GOOD PIRATE WOULD USE MY CODE WITHOUT PERMISSION
2020-09-01 16:25:06	epoch	copyright is a spook. go ahead.
2020-09-01 16:25:53	acdw	:D thans
2020-09-01 16:25:57	acdw	s/thans/thanks
2020-09-01 16:26:39	epoch	if you run into uricut, that's one of my programs... mime-type is also one of mine.. and normalpath
2020-09-01 16:26:52	acdw	haha i was kinda figureing
2020-09-01 16:26:54	epoch	mime-type and normalpath should be included
2020-09-01 16:27:03	epoch	uricut is in my uritools repo
2020-09-01 16:27:05	acdw	now i just have to figure out stunnel
2020-09-01 16:27:19	acdw	oh holy moly you're like ... a shell wizard
2020-09-01 16:27:20	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/shell-daemons/blob/master/config-examples/stunnel.conf wat?
2020-09-01 16:32:47	acdw	hehe yes
2020-09-01 16:37:06	epoch	my finger daemon signs its responses :)
2020-09-01 16:37:49	⚡	epoch plays on the beach
2020-09-01 16:37:55	epoch	(shells)
2020-09-01 16:37:59	felix	:D
2020-09-01 16:43:38	epoch	for some reason a bunch of services on my raspi aren't working
2020-09-01 16:44:13	epoch	remotely
2020-09-01 16:45:44	epoch	like, from yourtilde I can connect to my httpd but not my finger daemon
2020-09-01 16:46:19	acdw	omg epoch just got that joke
2020-09-01 16:46:36	acdw	also i can't believe i didn't see that stunnel config
2020-09-01 16:46:51	acdw	yeah i'm bookmarking this page
2020-09-01 16:48:15	epoch	well, whenever I get it working, I have those daemons running on thebackupbox.net
2020-09-01 16:48:49	acdw	aw work network blocks it :(
2020-09-01 16:49:14	epoch	booo
2020-09-01 16:49:20	epoch	based on IP or hostname?
2020-09-01 16:49:38	epoch	try: hacking.allowed.org? (or if "hacking" is bad, cooking.allowed.org )
2020-09-01 16:51:10	⚡	epoch messing with router config
2020-09-01 16:51:11	acdw	nope
2020-09-01 16:51:38	acdw	yeah it follows redirects or cnames or whatever allowed.org usees
2020-09-01 16:51:41	epoch	have a shell account on a tilde that doesn't do TCPForward no ?
2020-09-01 16:52:03	acdw	it's annoying b/c IT in my work is so not knowledgable in other ways
2020-09-01 16:52:07	acdw	but with network ... it's locked
2020-09-01 16:52:17	epoch	oh, yeah, I tried to have service names redirect to computer names
2020-09-01 16:52:18	acdw	oh and ssh is blocked too
2020-09-01 16:53:15	epoch	bbl
2020-09-01 16:53:18	epoch	rl
2020-09-01 17:44:45	epoch	I bet the reason I think my services aren't working is the shell I'm testing them from.
2020-09-01 17:44:51	epoch	it probably has outbound filters
2020-09-01 17:45:47	epoch	yep.
2020-09-01 17:46:01	epoch	testing from somewhere else that I know isn't filtered and it works.
2020-09-01 17:47:12	epoch	I'd gotten used to a network that wasn't clogged up with stupid firewall rules
2020-09-01 17:49:09	epoch	anyway. I'm looking in the wrong places for bugs, so I should go to bed.
2020-09-01 17:49:12	epoch	g'night
2020-09-01 17:50:30	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-01 17:50:32	acdw	o/
2020-09-01 18:01:01		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-01 18:18:20		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-01 18:44:22	▬▬▶	flydelion has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 19:04:51		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-01 19:17:29		flydelion has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-01 19:17:52	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 19:44:51	makeworld	makeworld.gq now has a nice wildcard 5-year EC cert!
2020-09-01 19:45:08	makeworld	I noticed today that it had expired lol
2020-09-01 19:57:45	sandra	Trying to install AV-98 because that was the one client I liked from the "kiosk" mode but cryptography, ansiwrap and av-98 end up in three separate virtualenvs. Oh Python, wherefore art thou :(
2020-09-01 20:01:54	sandra	Not sure I want ansiwrap on second thought
2020-09-01 20:02:03	sandra	It's the FONT-FAMILY of gemtext
2020-09-01 20:06:33	sandra	AV-98 is awesome
2020-09-01 20:11:45	sandra	It worx inside emacs too
2020-09-01 21:14:01		wingy has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-01 21:14:34	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-01 21:30:28	@tomasino	it is quite lovely
2020-09-01 21:41:19	dkibi	otrn.org finally also has a new cert :P only for 3 years though
2020-09-01 21:41:43	makeworld	Yeah, idk if 5 years was too much
2020-09-01 21:41:50	makeworld	Feels a bit long, but we'll see what happens I guess
2020-09-01 21:44:48	dkibi	yeah
2020-09-01 22:04:42	@tomasino	well that episode of Superman was exceptionally racist
2020-09-01 22:04:43	@tomasino	wowza
2020-09-01 22:05:33	djph	oh?
2020-09-01 22:05:39	djph	modern Superman, or the old stuff?
2020-09-01 22:06:28	@tomasino	old stuff
2020-09-01 22:06:34	@tomasino	1950s
2020-09-01 22:06:51	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.team/~tomasino/
2020-09-01 22:07:00	@tomasino	i've got a few essays on it here
2020-09-01 22:33:43	CommunistWolf	https://www.zdnet.com/article/mozilla-research-browsing-histories-are-unique-enough-to-reliably-identify-users/
2020-09-01 22:43:30	companion_cube	in what world do advertisers get a look at my browser history? :s
2020-09-01 22:53:08	makeworld	> Between January 2009 and May 2011, researchers asked users to access an online test site where they used some clever CSS code to determine which websites from a predefined list of 6,000 domains users had visited.
2020-09-01 22:55:16	makeworld	It used this bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147777
2020-09-01 22:56:24	makeworld	I think the point is that if a future bug occurred, or if an entity was able to capture lots of traffic (cough Google cough), they'd be able to easily identify users
2020-09-01 22:57:16	makeworld	I've been getting excited about the prospect of Amfora being able to render Markdown
2020-09-01 22:57:45	makeworld	I think that'll be the feature I want to focus on next, after feeds. Although certificates would also be very nice
2020-09-01 22:58:48	kevinsan	tomasino, great idea of commentary on old tv shows. nicely done too - i love the whole shining light on bullshit thing.
2020-09-01 23:44:39	michel	tomasino: going to give your essays a read. that reminds me that I haven't set up Elpher on this machine :p
2020-09-01 23:45:03	@tomasino	Thanks!
2020-09-01 23:47:13	michel	anyone using Elpher here? I need to seriously look at selectively sync-ing my dotfiles. too used to giant browser platforms that provide sync services (eugh)
2020-09-01 23:50:20	kevinsan	ha, I was just pondering Brechtian theatre vs post-war American tv, and looked up Brecht on Wikipedia. I quote: "he was surveilled by the FBI and subpoenaed by the House Un-American Activities Committee"
2020-09-01 23:57:05	@tomasino	Hah
2020-09-02 00:01:30	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 00:10:53		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-02 00:18:59	michel	kevinsan: ah, didn't realize he ever lived in the US. didn't realize HUAC was already active during ww2
2020-09-02 00:19:20	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 00:34:09	michel	tomasino: reading your Superman essays now. I'm in the same boat re: recent TV shows -- I find myself watching Japanese food-related TV series instead. Midnight Diner and Samurai Gourmet are great!
2020-09-02 00:34:38	@tomasino	fantastic!
2020-09-02 00:59:55	kevinsan	michel, I didn't even know HUAC was a thing! I suppose we have had similar concepts here in the UK, they're just tacit rather than overt. Perhaps Americans are just plain more honest.
2020-09-02 01:04:39	kline	kevinsan: we dont really
2020-09-02 01:05:26	kline	the huac was mostly considered an aberration
2020-09-02 01:10:55	kline	the closest thing we have (the intelligence and security committee, notably in the news a month back over the russia report) is the closest, being the same internal-security body drawn from the political class, but the UK has never really needed to draw on such a body to persecute individuals, with most of the historical persecution like the huac being arranged by unions etc
2020-09-02 01:12:07	kline	not that unions are inherently bad, but certainly the british unions had a lot of power to decide in- and out-groups and control firmly who would be admitted to unions that could make careers workable or untenable
2020-09-02 01:22:37	kevinsan	today, none of it is required because twitter storms :) nothing like a bunch of IP datagrams to ruin a career
2020-09-02 01:24:02	kline	yeah, the unions are nominally a representative collective of your peers in the same way that you can be outcast from your own sliver of society on a wave of outrage that may or may not be true
2020-09-02 01:24:35	kline	this is not ideal, but its better than politicians deciding this in secret
2020-09-02 01:48:28	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 03:08:49		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-09-02 03:23:37		tiwesdaeg has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-02 03:24:12	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 03:24:12	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-09-02 05:10:05	epoch	text/gemini --> man-page ?
2020-09-02 05:10:07	epoch	hrm...
2020-09-02 05:10:28	sandra	epoch: pandoc maybe?
2020-09-02 05:10:49	epoch	I was thinking of just doing it myself.
2020-09-02 05:11:12	epoch	I know I have code that reads text/gemini somewhere and converts it to html
2020-09-02 05:11:18	sandra	I made a man page from one of my poems
2020-09-02 05:11:21	epoch	to man-page should be easiser.
2020-09-02 05:12:15	epoch	yeah, I have a gemini2html.c
2020-09-02 05:12:22	⚡	epoch cp and rename
2020-09-02 05:13:00	sandra	gemini://idiomdrottning.org/octobersnow.5.gz
2020-09-02 05:14:04	epoch	51 Notfound?
2020-09-02 05:14:07	epoch	hrm.
2020-09-02 05:14:17	sandra	Maybe mistype on my part
2020-09-02 05:14:51	epoch	yeah.
2020-09-02 05:14:55	epoch	there's a - before snow
2020-09-02 05:15:08	epoch	oh.
2020-09-02 05:15:16	epoch	the - is in a file that isn't a man-page
2020-09-02 05:16:03	sandra	No, I had uploaded it to the wrong host
2020-09-02 05:16:32	sandra	Now it should be there
2020-09-02 05:16:48	sandra	That's where the typo was :/
2020-09-02 05:17:29	⚡	epoch gemini-get gemini://idiomdrottning.org/octobersnow.5.gz | tail -n+2 | zcat | man /dev/stdin
2020-09-02 05:19:29	sandra	Did it work
2020-09-02 05:22:28	epoch	yeah
2020-09-02 05:23:12	sandra	Much appreciated
2020-09-02 05:23:17	sandra	I love man pages
2020-09-02 05:25:33	epoch	I'd like to find a pager that still works with sixels.
2020-09-02 05:26:22	epoch	I've been just using urxvt set to not-exit after its program closes looking through its scrollback
2020-09-02 05:33:00	sandra	I love urxvt. Some people over at #suckless (on OFTC, not tilde.chat) made their own terminal called st but I've been happy with urxvt
2020-09-02 05:36:47	login	st is sublime text though
2020-09-02 05:39:11	epoch	st in my head is suckless terminal
2020-09-02 05:39:33	epoch	who said the hardest problem in computers is naming things?
2020-09-02 05:39:42	sandra	Is there a sublime text binary called st?
2020-09-02 05:52:51	epoch	I've never used sublime text, only heard of it.
2020-09-02 05:57:44	sandra	I heard an editor had that name
2020-09-02 06:44:25	login	it's an 80-dollar text editor with 3 years of updates
2020-09-02 06:44:53	login	after that, any further updates require an upgrade (which is cheaper than 80 dollars)
2020-09-02 06:46:00	sandra	Is it still DFSG free though? I mean it'd be hard to maintain that price if anyone could fork
2020-09-02 06:59:42	login	no, it's proprietary
2020-09-02 06:59:44	login	no source code
2020-09-02 07:00:30	login	why is the MIT licence not DFSG?
2020-09-02 07:01:44	sandra	It is, except the University of Washington's version of it
2020-09-02 07:01:59	alex11	https://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses it is
2020-09-02 07:02:26	sandra	The University of Washington said that they intended for pine to be distributed XOR modified, not both
2020-09-02 07:02:53	sandra	Which is a way to interpret the MIT license if you like being wrong, but, consequently Debian is sans Pine.
2020-09-02 07:03:49	sandra	I do not personally enjoy or partake of the Sublime text editor, is my conclusion from the current conversation♥
2020-09-02 07:03:54	sandra	ed ftw
2020-09-02 07:05:10	alex11	ed is the standard text editor
2020-09-02 07:07:51	sandra	I have shell scripts, one named exf that quickly opens whatever file in the nearest emacs, and one other named ec that even spawns a new terminal frame of that emacs in the present terminal and edits the file, buuuut often enough I just wanna fix something quick and I use ed. Especially if I need to be another user (such as root, www-data or pleroma) ior I'm on another server.
2020-09-02 07:13:14	sandra	I selected emacs over vi for kind of a dumb reason. I had switched to Unix (and clones) and dvorak at about the same time and emacs felt like it made sense with Control-P for "previous" etc while the hjkl was just wtf is this?! These days I've used enough vi-inspired programs to be kinda familiar with hjkl even on dvorak.
2020-09-02 07:13:14	sandra	These days I have quite a bit of respect for vi and ex and the modal style of editing (I use modal on emacs too now). Vim specifically as an implementation I'm not too impressed by, but that's not the only editor in the vi/sam/acme/vis family.
2020-09-02 07:55:26	login	What about their product sublime merge?
2020-09-02 07:55:32	login	https://www.sublimehq.com/buy
2020-09-02 07:59:11	sandra	I've had "learn magit" on my to-do–list for the longest time. Still using the vanilla git CLI with a lot of wrapper shell script to automate everyday things
2020-09-02 07:59:26	sandra	But is Sublime Merge DFSG-free?
2020-09-02 07:59:29	alex11	oh i don't know if i'll ever touch emacs at this rate
2020-09-02 07:59:35	alex11	not because it's bad
2020-09-02 07:59:38	alex11	i'm just lazybones
2020-09-02 08:00:52	sandra	I just started seeing every Emacs Lisp function as kind of the emacs system's equivalent of what's a command on Unix. But that you can compose, advice etc.
2020-09-02 08:01:26	sandra	Like, it's unpossible to learn all of emacs. But a couple of functions? That might be fine
2020-09-02 08:03:27	alex11	same
2020-09-02 08:03:36	alex11	that's how i think of it too, i do want to learn org mode
2020-09-02 08:07:20	alex11	that said i'm very much not a programmer
2020-09-02 11:50:36	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 12:09:04	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 12:33:48	login	alex11: you can become
2020-09-02 12:47:08	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 12:49:55	sandra	Your time on Earth is precious. Be careful of picking up new endeavours. But I have found programming rewarding.
2020-09-02 12:52:07	idf	I just made my first blog post on gemini
2020-09-02 12:52:57	makeworld	🎊
2020-09-02 12:53:16	felix	Congrats!
2020-09-02 12:56:19	idf	thanks!
2020-09-02 12:57:17	sandra	Is it gonna be on CAPCOM, idf?
2020-09-02 12:57:28	idf	uhh what's capcom
2020-09-02 12:58:17	idf	i heard of it
2020-09-02 13:00:38	makeworld	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/
2020-09-02 13:00:41	sandra	It's Solderpunk's list of Gemini blog posts
2020-09-02 13:00:49	sandra	Or I think it's Solderpunk, could be some other punk
2020-09-02 13:00:54	makeworld	idf: It's an aggregator. It's sort of like Gemini's homepage
2020-09-02 13:00:56	idf	oh nice
2020-09-02 13:01:02	idf	i will look at it
2020-09-02 13:01:08	makeworld	sandra: It happens automatically, so I wouldn't really call it his list.
2020-09-02 13:01:31	makeworld	idf: If you want to be on it, you need to create a gemlog feed and send the URL to Solderpunk by email.
2020-09-02 13:01:46	makeworld	You can create a feed with gemfeed, if you have commandline skills
2020-09-02 13:01:52	makeworld	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemfeed
2020-09-02 13:02:17	makeworld	pip3 install gemfeed
2020-09-02 13:02:19	idf	cool thanks
2020-09-02 13:02:35	idf	yeah CLI isn't really a problem for me
2020-09-02 13:08:34	makeworld	Nice :)
2020-09-02 13:08:44	makeworld	I setup gemfeed on a cron job
2020-09-02 13:09:07	makeworld	It runs every hour, which is kinda overkill since I don't write blog posts that often, but at least it updates soon when I do write one
2020-09-02 13:09:10	makeworld	Lol
2020-09-02 13:13:30	idf	interesting
2020-09-02 13:16:28	felix	There's also SpaceWalk, which just checks blog index pages for changes.
2020-09-02 13:16:44	felix	So it can only show a list of recently updated blogs, not posts.
2020-09-02 13:16:59	felix	But on the plus side doesn't rely on newsfeeds at all.
2020-09-02 13:19:21		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-02 13:25:21	sandra	It's easier to get on Spacewalk, for that reason
2020-09-02 13:27:49	sandra	I need to do some scripting or similar b/C RN I have to check a bunch of different places, like CAPCOM, Fedi, email, atom... I need to write some wrappers that check all those for me in one go.
2020-09-02 13:35:24		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-02 13:35:35	⚡	felix nods
2020-09-02 13:41:29	admicos	i just patched my mastodon instance to make gemini links proper links, i can share my patch if anyone's interested
2020-09-02 13:42:26	felix	Nice!
2020-09-02 13:42:49	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 13:43:30	felix	Dun' have my own, but thanks! Good to know that's a thing.
2020-09-02 13:46:08	sandra	For Pleroma the list of schemes is in the config
2020-09-02 13:47:05	felix	That's good thinking.
2020-09-02 13:47:53	idf	alright i made the feed and i mailed solderpunk
2020-09-02 13:50:45	idf	comfy
2020-09-02 13:52:30	felix	Good luck!
2020-09-02 13:53:32	idf	thank you
2020-09-02 13:55:00	idf	also i refactored the server a bit and soon i will finally add support for transient client certificates and client-certificate authentication
2020-09-02 13:55:21	idf	good stuff
2020-09-02 13:56:54	felix	Indeed!
2020-09-02 14:28:40	felix	In unrelated news, I realized that making my viewer able to follow relative links would make it usable as a help system.
2020-09-02 14:29:20	felix	Of course that alone is one deep rabbit hole, never mind networking.
2020-09-02 14:29:39	jan6	heh
2020-09-02 14:30:56	sandra	Is there relative links on Gemini?
2020-09-02 14:30:59		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-02 14:33:40	felix	Of course! Isn't that how you normally write links in gemtext?
2020-09-02 14:34:10	felix	The client turns them into absolute links for the server
2020-09-02 14:34:42	sandra	I didn't know that. I wrote absolute links
2020-09-02 14:35:26	felix	Well, huh. Guess that work while you don't change hosts.
2020-09-02 14:35:54	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 14:40:20	sandra	I don't enjoy writing gem text at all TBH because of the soft wrapping. I write hard wrapped and postprocess them to fix all links and make them soft wrapped
2020-09-02 14:40:50	djph	sandra: you too?
2020-09-02 14:41:44	sandra	:) do you feel the same way
2020-09-02 14:41:55	felix	Sounds like you'd be happier writing gophermaps?
2020-09-02 14:42:25	djph	72 chars wide is the only way to write things
2020-09-02 14:42:57	admicos	if you're using vim, check out the "goyo" plugin
2020-09-02 14:43:04	admicos	i cannot write gemtext without it
2020-09-02 14:43:09	djph	wazzat?
2020-09-02 14:43:16	admicos	https://github.com/junegunn/goyo.vim
2020-09-02 14:43:28	admicos	you can limit the width of your buffer and it pads the sides to center it
2020-09-02 14:44:01	djph	or you can just hard-wrap at 72 characters
2020-09-02 14:44:06	djph	which makes way more sense
2020-09-02 14:45:15	sandra	Right, but I hope you don't hardwrap gemtext
2020-09-02 14:45:44	sandra	I have some sections that are meant to be hardwrapped, poems and such, and they are marked up and processed accordingly
2020-09-02 14:45:44	felix	You can hard-wrap gemtext, it will just look bad on small screens.
2020-09-02 14:46:13	felix	But then again so does all that ASCII art on Gopher.
2020-09-02 14:46:23	felix	Which is hard-wrapped by definition.
2020-09-02 14:47:20	sandra	Publishing hardwrapped gemtext breaks the spec
2020-09-02 14:48:24	djph	sandra: no, I have a post-processor that undoes that, and then launches it into gem... whatever.  I'm bad with names, so I called it "orbit"
2020-09-02 14:48:34	felix	Technically no, it doesn't, since linebreaks must be preserved.
2020-09-02 14:48:51	sandra	djph: same!♥♥
2020-09-02 14:49:41		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-02 14:49:46	felix	You're just making it hard on people with small screens.
2020-09-02 14:49:56	sandra	It de jure breaks the spec gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/gemtext.gmi
2020-09-02 14:50:37	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 14:50:39	sandra	Nothing crashes or signals error, technically
2020-09-02 14:50:56	felix	First of all that's the tutorial, not the spec.
2020-09-02 14:51:07	felix	 Second, it stresses that it's only the *preferred* way.
2020-09-02 14:52:36	sandra	Spec, 5.4.1: https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/specification.html it's a SHOULD level requirement
2020-09-02 14:54:22		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-02 14:56:04	felix	"In order to take full advantage of this method of text formatting"
2020-09-02 14:57:09	sandra	Can other people chime in here? I've exhausted my piece. We might be talking past each other with some sort of fundamental misunderstanding, IDK.
2020-09-02 14:57:24	felix	And the paragraph above suggests that a client could, in fact, not soft-wrap lines.
2020-09-02 14:57:52	felix	I'm just saying it's not some big boogeyman of a requirement.
2020-09-02 14:58:06	sandra	Maybe we're getting hung up on some semantics trap as to what "breaks spec" means, or what a SHOULD level requirement is, or what "stresses that it's only the preferred" means
2020-09-02 14:58:07	felix	If you don't like it, write your own way, it's not a disaster.
2020-09-02 14:58:23	felix	Your lines will be ragged on small screens, that's all.
2020-09-02 14:58:31	felix	It will still be fully valid gemtext.
2020-09-02 14:59:03	sandra	The semantic contents of those lines would me misleading. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119
2020-09-02 14:59:12	felix	I bet servers and clients already extend the spec in big and small ways.
2020-09-02 14:59:29	felix	Maybe even contradict it in places.
2020-09-02 14:59:58	felix	That's the way it goes. Practice wins out.
2020-09-02 15:01:02	sandra	That bet I don't dispute
2020-09-02 15:01:58	sandra	Just saying that de jure  "valid" gemtext has softwrapped paragraphs.
2020-09-02 15:02:37	sandra	And I could technically & practically & physically put hard-wrapped paragraph gmi-files up there and no-one is disputing that either
2020-09-02 15:03:03	sandra	Don't worry, felix
2020-09-02 15:03:12	sandra	I'm happy with the post processor
2020-09-02 16:02:32	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 16:02:57	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-02 16:19:48	dkibi	https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/09/02/remember-how-great-ascii-art-used-to-be-in-game-guides/
2020-09-02 16:26:17	felix	:)
2020-09-02 16:30:48	felix	And speaking of memories, I found something for my other capsule.
2020-09-02 16:37:13	felix	Figured I might have just the right content lying around.
2020-09-02 16:43:30	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 16:43:40	kevinsan	dkibi, I own a book titled 'Senseless Acts of Beauty' - I've never read it (too academic), the title's enough for me :) ASCII art makes me think of this. Often beautiful.
2020-09-02 16:44:54	felix	Yes, it is.
2020-09-02 16:45:09	felix	Ended up not making any of my own, except with Figlet, but yes.
2020-09-02 16:48:33	dkibi	oh
2020-09-02 16:48:40	dkibi	yeah
2020-09-02 16:48:52	acdw	loove ascii art!
2020-09-02 16:49:00	acdw	been trying to get better at itt... but it's complictated!
2020-09-02 16:49:50	felix	Keep going!
2020-09-02 16:51:03	acdw	thanks :)
2020-09-02 16:51:31	acdw	I kinda want to use artist-mode in emacs but i feel like that's cheating. .. i want to get good at like, notepad ascii art
2020-09-02 16:52:10	felix	That's like saying it's cheating to use a fancy brush.
2020-09-02 16:52:57	acdw	ha, maybe. well I feel like it's more like saying you won't really make great art by tracing -- since the characters feel verry personal
2020-09-02 16:53:01	kevinsan	exactly - it's your design, choice of characters for overall effect that's important, not how you got them there.
2020-09-02 16:53:14	acdw	like, the shapes of the characters are really important, which using artist-mode won't get me
2020-09-02 16:53:22	acdw	I have used vim which works fairly well
2020-09-02 16:55:31	kevinsan	acdw, do you start with rows of spaces and then just r the chars in?
2020-09-02 16:56:14	acdw	yeah, only I use R
2020-09-02 16:56:50	acdw	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw/2020-06-04-ascii-art-vim.gmi
2020-09-02 16:56:52	acdw	^ method
2020-09-02 17:00:02	kevinsan	thanks, i must try my first ascii art creation!
2020-09-02 17:00:47	acdw	good luck! omg there should be a ascii-art.club or something
2020-09-02 17:01:16	acdw	ascii.art is *only* 828.10 lol
2020-09-02 17:04:37	acdw	okay I'd love to hear input on these two vv small gemtext-format changes I'm thinking of putting on the ML
2020-09-02 17:04:44	acdw	1. section-break = `---`
2020-09-02 17:06:06	acdw	2. allow vv basic 'styling' on ``` blocks, treating them almost like "alternate-formatting" blocks
2020-09-02 17:06:50	acdw	fancy clients could render --- as a big line across the page, and, say, ``` verse with proportional text
2020-09-02 17:07:06	acdw	while simple clients would just keep them as-is
2020-09-02 17:07:23	acdw	maybe it's too late to be bikeshedding syntax lol
2020-09-02 17:10:54	felix	I'm very much in favor of ---
2020-09-02 17:11:10	acdw	yeah I find myself writing that all the time
2020-09-02 17:11:12	felix	I think it's in keeping with the design so far.
2020-09-02 17:11:33	felix	And works very well if not handled by clients, too.
2020-09-02 17:11:51	epoch	maybe clients could just decide to render page-break characters that way?
2020-09-02 17:12:11	acdw	yep yep. and the ``` thing is really part of the (as yet undecided) ```-alt text thing
2020-09-02 17:12:22	acdw	epoch: that could work -- what is it, ^L?
2020-09-02 17:12:24	epoch	(or some other appropriate single-character that is usually whitespace?)
2020-09-02 17:12:27	epoch	^L yeah
2020-09-02 17:12:37	epoch	end of record?
2020-09-02 17:12:37	acdw	that's a pretty good idea actually ...
2020-09-02 17:12:55	epoch	^Ls are used in RFCs I think
2020-09-02 17:12:56	acdw	i think emacs et al uses ^L already for that kind of thing, so ^L would be good
2020-09-02 17:13:11	acdw	honestly more people should use ^L IMO
2020-09-02 17:13:29	acdw	or I could just start doing §
2020-09-02 17:14:21	@tomasino	acdw: next time try using virtualedit
2020-09-02 17:14:28	epoch	I kind of still want some meaningful use for fragment IDs with gemtext
2020-09-02 17:14:30	@tomasino	:help virtualedit
2020-09-02 17:14:34	acdw	hehe tomasino I do use virtualedit!
2020-09-02 17:14:41	@tomasino	:D
2020-09-02 17:14:47	acdw	It's actually mentioned on the gmi page I linked
2020-09-02 17:14:52	acdw	yeah virtualedit is bae
2020-09-02 17:15:01	acdw	(for ascii text)
2020-09-02 17:15:06	@tomasino	absolutely
2020-09-02 17:15:14	acdw	i might actually want to re-install nvim on my laptop just to do ascii art
2020-09-02 17:18:54	felix	:)
2020-09-02 17:19:35	felix	The closest I've come has been with some text art. Wanna see?
2020-09-02 17:19:58	@tomasino	acdw: https://github.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles-minimal/blob/master/.config/nvim/init.vim#L101-L107
2020-09-02 17:20:17	@tomasino	:call AsciiMode() # kicks me into working with ascii art
2020-09-02 17:21:35	acdw	oh yes, that's amazing!
2020-09-02 17:21:40	acdw	felix: you know it!
2020-09-02 17:21:49	felix	https://elekk.xyz/@notimetoplay/104796459677475158
2020-09-02 17:22:33	acdw	nice! I like the colors and the spacing
2020-09-02 17:22:48	felix	Thanks!
2020-09-02 17:23:04	acdw	https://ttm.sh/QVo.txt
2020-09-02 17:23:07	acdw	^ that me
2020-09-02 17:23:31	@tomasino	a lovely little place
2020-09-02 17:25:29	acdw	:D
2020-09-02 17:27:20	acdw	oh tomasino: that looks like a dope vimrc as well -- i've been so into emacs-config lately that I forgot how vimscript can be pretty chill
2020-09-02 17:29:40	felix	Nice little piece!
2020-09-02 17:30:35	acdw	thanks! it just ended up looking like a church lol
2020-09-02 17:30:42	acdw	idk what that says about where my head is....
2020-09-02 17:32:18	@tomasino	thanks, yeah. i like keeping my vim config a bit verbose and organized
2020-09-02 17:45:29	felix	acdw: well, if an atheist can write fiction with religious themes...
2020-09-02 17:47:09	acdw	felix heeh
2020-09-02 17:47:18	acdw	tomasino: well it is a vision
2020-09-02 17:57:40		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-02 18:09:53	michel	felix: like Philip Pullman?
2020-09-02 18:10:15	felix	I was thinking Asimov, but it's probably common enough.
2020-09-02 18:10:40	michel	the best religious-themed fiction I've read, IMHO, are the slightly sacrilegious ones. like "The Last Temptation of Christ" that got its author excommunicated from the Greek Orthodox Church
2020-09-02 18:11:21	felix	:D
2020-09-02 18:24:19		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-02 18:56:52	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-02 20:25:28		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-02 20:48:56		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-09-02 20:59:10	kevinsan	In the spec there's a sentence "Sending an absolute URL instead of only a path or selector is effectively equivalent to building in a HTTP "Host" header"
2020-09-02 20:59:24	kevinsan	what is meant by 'selector' in this context?
2020-09-02 21:20:22	@tomasino	://moo.com/bananas
2020-09-02 21:20:25	@tomasino	or just //
2020-09-02 21:20:29	@tomasino	i forget how it's structured
2020-09-02 21:20:50	@tomasino	i think it's //
2020-09-02 21:21:06	@tomasino	whatever protocol you're on you'll stay on
2020-09-02 21:21:15	@tomasino	that's how i read that exchange, anyway
2020-09-02 21:22:02	@tomasino	i think i'm doing those on cosmic, tbh
2020-09-02 21:22:24	@tomasino	i may just be doing absolute from root, though
2020-09-02 21:22:27	@tomasino	i forget!
2020-09-02 21:33:32	kevinsan	thanks. the only references to 'selector' in https://www.w3.org/Addressing/URL/url-spec.html were in the gopher section. i wonder if the word is a hangover from early ideas?
2020-09-02 21:33:54	kevinsan	in any case, what you say makes sense (it's // by the way, the : is tied to the scheme)
2020-09-02 21:35:50	kevinsan	to pedant myself - actually it's tied to neither, it's a separator!
2020-09-02 23:59:09		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-09-02 23:59:23	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 01:01:56		exprez135 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-09-03 01:02:12	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 01:13:58		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-03 01:40:46	▬▬▶	lain8 has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 01:42:59		lain has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-03 01:42:59	ℹ 	lain8 is now known as lain
2020-09-03 02:56:44		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-03 04:33:33		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-03 05:47:04	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 06:38:01		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-03 07:36:22	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 07:38:11		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-03 07:57:13	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 08:17:26		idf has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-09-03 11:55:50		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-03 12:08:22	vee	Hi everyone o/ I have a small new GUS feature to share. Mostly due to the fact that we have over 200 hosts now (eek!), I'm having a harder time spotting what's new. So I made a GUS page for it: gemini://gus.guru/newest-hosts
2020-09-03 12:19:16	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 13:02:09	@tomasino	woo
2020-09-03 13:04:39	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 13:04:49	lukee	hi vee
2020-09-03 13:04:56	lukee	nice new feature for GUS!
2020-09-03 13:37:28	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 13:37:56	thewetcrab	Hi tomasino are you free to talk for a moment?
2020-09-03 13:40:19		thewetcrab has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-03 13:40:43	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 13:54:30	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 14:22:15	@tomasino	Just finishing at the pool
2020-09-03 14:22:18	@tomasino	I'll be home soon
2020-09-03 14:23:21	thewetcrab	Thank you, please give me a shout when you get home. Hope you are enjoying your swim :)
2020-09-03 14:36:06	@tomasino	i'm back!
2020-09-03 14:36:09	@tomasino	what's up
2020-09-03 14:36:42	xfnw	hi tomasino
2020-09-03 14:37:03	@tomasino	hola
2020-09-03 14:37:17	xfnw	is tomasino a tomato?
2020-09-03 14:37:18	@tomasino	i bought a "new" office chair yesterday at the second hand store
2020-09-03 14:37:28	@tomasino	it was $12 and it's working out well so far
2020-09-03 14:37:45	thewetcrab	Wow nice find, hope it is comfortable for you.
2020-09-03 14:37:55	thewetcrab	I need an ergonomic chair before my back stops working!
2020-09-03 14:38:22	@tomasino	yeah, good so far. I was using a metal kitchen chair with a thin padding on it before this, but that meant we only had 3 chairs in the kitchen
2020-09-03 14:38:35	@tomasino	this one is more padded underneath and behind and can spin
2020-09-03 14:38:42	@tomasino	no arms, thank god. I hate arm rests 
2020-09-03 14:39:42	⚡	xfnw spins tomasino
2020-09-03 14:40:03	⚡	tomasino is spun
2020-09-03 14:43:02		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-03 14:43:42	felix	thewetcrab: until you can get a good chair, reduce your computer time.
2020-09-03 14:43:58	felix	One hour daily makes a huge difference. I couldn't believe how much.
2020-09-03 14:44:46	felix	Kinda having the same problem here, see. Was planning to buy one.
2020-09-03 14:44:54	⚡	xfnw places tomasino onto a centrifuge
2020-09-03 14:47:02	thewetcrab	I hate it when arm rests catch on the desk and prevent you from sitting close to the desk!
2020-09-03 14:47:43	@tomasino	i don't mind armrests on a comfy chair, but they're useless on office chairs
2020-09-03 14:47:53	@tomasino	you're inevitably sitting at a desk and will have your arms on it
2020-09-03 14:48:16	@tomasino	so they're just there to squeeze your legs and block you sitting with a leg under you, or to pinch your arm
2020-09-03 14:48:19	@tomasino	grrr
2020-09-03 14:48:34	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 14:49:10	felix	Welcome back!
2020-09-03 14:49:37	@tomasino	:)
2020-09-03 15:19:56	michel	tomasino: heh yes, back when I still have an office to work out of, I only notice my chair's armrests if they're set too high and got jammed under the desk after the cleaning people tidied up
2020-09-03 15:23:02	@tomasino	i like to turn my chair sideways and treat it a bit like an chaise lounge at the desk sometimes
2020-09-03 15:23:09	@tomasino	especially when watching videos
2020-09-03 15:26:28	lukee	hi folks
2020-09-03 15:26:34	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-03 15:26:47	lukee	just sent off a new shipment to a customer today - makes me happy
2020-09-03 15:26:56	felix	Good work!
2020-09-03 15:27:33	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/2QAdd9a
2020-09-03 15:32:10	felix	That's beautiful!
2020-09-03 15:32:46	lukee	thanks - its a welcome break from too much modern technology!
2020-09-03 15:33:16	felix	The analog is underrated these days.
2020-09-03 15:34:16	kevinsan	lukee, when you say shipment - did you *make* that?
2020-09-03 15:34:19	lukee	take me back to the 1580s
2020-09-03 15:34:26	lukee	kevinsan: yes
2020-09-03 15:34:48	kevinsan	ok, i'm rarely truly impressed but...
2020-09-03 15:35:02	kevinsan	do you play? do you have a recording of one being played?
2020-09-03 15:36:13	lukee	there's a preview of one of my customers playing his CD on my site here
2020-09-03 15:36:14	lukee	https://www.orlando-lutes.com/pages/hieber-60cm-6c-ash-beech-box
2020-09-03 15:36:58	lukee	I play enough to know what to look out for when I'm making them, but I'm only an amateur player
2020-09-03 15:38:16	felix	Lovely music.
2020-09-03 15:39:04	lukee	its a wonderful instrument, particularly in the hands of a proper player
2020-09-03 15:39:40	felix	In Romania they were the iconic instrument of a popular entertainer until roughly a century ago.
2020-09-03 15:41:45	lukee	mostly the instrument died out in europe by 1800, but there was a revival in the 20thC
2020-09-03 15:44:10	felix	I'll have to check, but over here it was likely an unbroken tradition.
2020-09-03 15:44:29	kevinsan	stunning, lukee! what are the white strings wound with?
2020-09-03 15:46:03	lukee	traditionally it would have been gut (sheep intestine) strings. Modern players often use polymer with a similar density. Some of the bass strings are overwound with copper
2020-09-03 15:47:11	lukee	felix: are you are thinking of the mandolin, a smaller cousin of the lute, which is an unbroken playing tradition
2020-09-03 15:47:22	felix	Nope.
2020-09-03 15:47:35	felix	I mean lutes.
2020-09-03 15:48:06	felix	They're even called the same.
2020-09-03 15:48:16	lukee	there are also some folk lute variants like the Koboz/Cobza
2020-09-03 15:48:17	lukee	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobza
2020-09-03 15:48:35	felix	That too. In fact those are still used.
2020-09-03 15:48:45	kevinsan	my ears love resonance, the lute has such a measured resonant sound
2020-09-03 15:49:49	lukee	it *was* Europe's favourite instrument for about 300 years
2020-09-03 15:51:15	felix	Goes to show how close we all were, for all the wars and stuff.
2020-09-03 15:51:25	lukee	felix: I'd be interested in any references to the popular entertainer you mention, played until a century ago ~1920s? If it was an unbroken tradition of playing the classical lute it would remarkable
2020-09-03 15:51:58	lukee	would [be] remarkable
2020-09-03 15:52:53	felix	Well, ours didn't sound the same. Not sure what that means.
2020-09-03 15:55:02	felix	And I was wrong. The famous performer I was thinking of died in 1860!
2020-09-03 15:55:27	lukee	still, thats still quite late - can you give a reference or name?
2020-09-03 15:57:21	felix	Yes, actually. Took me a moment, Romanian Wikipedia is poorly linked, poorly indexed *and* contradicts itself: https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbu_Lăutaru
2020-09-03 16:01:56	felix	That *is* a lute in the painting, isn't it? Can't be a cobza.
2020-09-03 16:02:45	felix	I've seen those more often, they're handheld and look distinct.
2020-09-03 16:02:47	lukee	no, it is a cobza. Which IS a member of the lute family to be sure, but it is one of the Eastern European folk variants
2020-09-03 16:03:08	lukee	the clue is that it is very short necked
2020-09-03 16:03:22	felix	That's odd then. Well, I've learned something.
2020-09-03 16:03:53	lukee	its nice to see - thankyou
2020-09-03 16:04:10	felix	Perhaps we borrowed the word, but the meaning shifted.
2020-09-03 16:04:45	lukee	it is a kind of lute, so the meaning is correct at some level
2020-09-03 16:05:12	felix	That would explain the difference in sound, too.
2020-09-03 16:05:44	lukee	yes, it is played with a plectrum, more percussive and rhythmic
2020-09-03 16:06:29	lukee	closer to the Oud. The wikipedia page above on the cobza is quite accurate I think
2020-09-03 16:07:52	felix	Right, for the modern instrument. It's changed over time.
2020-09-03 16:08:16	felix	The page you linked to shows the kind I'm familiar with.
2020-09-03 16:16:37	lukee	this video, whilst slightly long for an intro gives a sort of Hungarian perspective on it
2020-09-03 16:16:38	lukee	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDRLJByRLsw
2020-09-03 16:19:21	felix	All right, yeah, that's closer.
2020-09-03 16:22:06	felix	Ah, it sounds like that because it's played in a small room.
2020-09-03 16:41:45		epoch has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-03 17:00:51	michel	lukee: that's super nice
2020-09-03 17:04:08		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-03 17:07:01	felix	:)
2020-09-03 17:29:51		thewetcrab has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-03 17:31:44	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 17:33:56	acdw	eeey I'm like, super proud of a thing I wrote to post to gemlog.blue and wanted to crow about it: gemini://gemlog.blue/users/acdw/1599153646.gmi
2020-09-03 17:34:03	acdw	(hope that's cool, also hey yall)
2020-09-03 17:44:23	felix	Hello!
2020-09-03 17:45:10	felix	That looks super-useful for Emacs users.
2020-09-03 17:51:17	acdw	thanks!
2020-09-03 17:51:20		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-03 18:11:06		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-03 19:22:31	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 19:36:35	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 19:50:49	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 20:00:59		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-03 20:25:45	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 20:26:05	▬▬▶	acdw5 has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 20:26:36		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-03 20:26:45	ℹ 	acdw5 is now known as acdw
2020-09-03 20:35:53	ℹ 	acdw is now known as _el_
2020-09-03 20:36:13	ℹ 	_el_ is now known as acdw
2020-09-03 20:52:43	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 21:14:47		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-03 21:22:24	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 21:27:00		drskrzyk has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-03 21:32:26	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 21:41:59	▬▬▶	WIGGER has joined #gemini
2020-09-03 21:42:02	WIGGER	done
2020-09-03 21:42:55	WIGGER	want banana get nanana
2020-09-03 21:43:05	WIGGER	banana*
2020-09-03 21:51:17		WIGGER has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-03 21:59:08	acdw	who was that?!
2020-09-03 22:21:23	djph	acdw: a bored troll?
2020-09-03 22:21:59	acdw	lol I figured
2020-09-03 22:22:03	acdw	with the nick and all
2020-09-03 22:22:09	acdw	well that's my first of those
2020-09-03 22:46:30	kevinsan	what is quite funny is that they corrected themselves. like it was going to clarify anything. lame even by troll standards :)
2020-09-03 22:47:16	djph	trolls have standards?
2020-09-03 22:49:05	kevinsan	they tend to feel like they operate on a whole different level to everyone else. which, in a way, they do.
2020-09-03 22:52:58	acdw	^facts
2020-09-03 22:53:07	acdw	i mean, i love bananas
2020-09-03 22:57:19		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-03 23:05:51	kevinsan	fact: ripe bananas contain acetaldehyde, which is a migraine trigger.
2020-09-03 23:06:32	kevinsan	i just had to choose between a green banana and a ripe banana. I hope I don't get a migraine.
2020-09-03 23:33:26	@tomasino	mmm, ripe banana
2020-09-04 00:03:42		notsure has quit (quit: WeeChat 3.0-dev)
2020-09-04 00:33:15	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 00:36:37	kayw	 oh man, i had the perfect ripe banana
2020-09-04 00:46:32	kevinsan	if it's migraines all round tomorrow, blame the troll. maybe that was the plan all along. hmmm, cunning!
2020-09-04 01:31:00		drskrzyk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-04 01:32:52	kline	truly playing the long game
2020-09-04 01:44:36	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 01:51:37		drskrzyk has quit (quit: byebye)
2020-09-04 02:17:52	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 02:24:23		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-04 02:36:46		nytpu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-04 04:04:47	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 05:38:05		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-04 06:16:02	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 07:15:08		idf has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-04 08:07:27		sandra has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-04 08:13:46	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 09:04:10	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 12:08:45	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 12:36:44		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-04 13:53:07	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 14:07:01	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 14:25:30	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 14:33:39		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-04 15:12:31	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 15:13:39	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-04 15:14:19	calamitous	Morning!
2020-09-04 15:15:07	thewetcrab	Hello Felix,
2020-09-04 15:15:32	thewetcrab	Good morning calamitous, what been happening in the world of gemini recently?
2020-09-04 15:16:10	thewetcrab	Or let me know what personal gemini projects you have been working on :)
2020-09-04 15:18:18	xj9	gmgm
2020-09-04 15:19:17	felix	Hello!
2020-09-04 15:20:10	felix	Haven't updated my capsules much for the past couple of days.
2020-09-04 15:23:19	djph	I'm gonna have to burn one and launch another :|
2020-09-04 15:27:07	felix	Aw.
2020-09-04 15:28:54	thewetcrab	What is your gem url felix ?
2020-09-04 15:30:06	felix	I have two. gemini.ctrl-c.club/~nttp/ and felixp7.flounder.online
2020-09-04 15:30:09	felix	How about you?
2020-09-04 15:30:47	thewetcrab	No I haven't been able to succesfully set up a gemini server yet.
2020-09-04 15:31:16	thewetcrab	I think xfnw was helping me with that at some point but we probably both got distracted by other things ^_^
2020-09-04 15:31:55	felix	I'm relying on the kindness of strangers too. ;)
2020-09-04 15:32:02	thewetcrab	I like the layout of ctrl-c club :)
2020-09-04 15:32:26	thewetcrab	Yes I rely on the kindness of others to help with my selfhosting and linux goals :/
2020-09-04 15:32:41	sandra	thewetcrab: I endorse that plan AF
2020-09-04 15:32:42	felix	You mean the big homepage, or my little home there?
2020-09-04 15:33:05	sandra	It makes no sense for everyone to go at it alone when these systems are designed to be multiuser systems
2020-09-04 15:33:15	thewetcrab	This page - http://ctrl-c.club/
2020-09-04 15:33:26	thewetcrab	sandra what do you mean?
2020-09-04 15:33:42	thewetcrab	Are you saying that individuals shouldn't self host their services?
2020-09-04 15:34:20	sandra	That's exactly what I'm saying. Small groups can band together and pool their efforts
2020-09-04 15:34:27	sandra	I do self host
2020-09-04 15:34:35	sandra	But it's a lot of work
2020-09-04 15:34:49	felix	Also it's more fun together.
2020-09-04 15:35:13	felix	And so many hosts are still very empty.
2020-09-04 15:35:17	thewetcrab	What services do you self host sandra?
2020-09-04 15:35:50	thewetcrab	Through reading various things I've been lead to believe you can't have 100% privacy if you are uploading your information to other peoples servers ........
2020-09-04 15:35:52	thewetcrab	?
2020-09-04 15:35:53	sandra	Blog, wiki, calendar, gallery, Fedi, Gemini, email, atom feeds and Jabber.
2020-09-04 15:36:26	sandra	One friend shares the email with me and another has a user account on my Fedi instance.
2020-09-04 15:36:40	thewetcrab	Wow you sound like a very experienced user of linux and of selfhosting sandra :)
2020-09-04 15:36:46	sandra	The calendaring/wiki is for my d&d group
2020-09-04 15:36:50	thewetcrab	What do you use for your wiki?
2020-09-04 15:37:49	sandra	Yeah, I've been at it since the ninenties. I have a dokuwik right now, switched to it a few years ago, it's a kinda crappy wiki but they have an amazing imagemap plugin that's great fpr maps. Also a markdown plugin
2020-09-04 15:37:56	sandra	dokuwiki*
2020-09-04 15:39:11	sandra	People should decentralize and use self-hostable stuff, but, ultimately it's better to do it in groups I think. I was part of a group of five at first, that fell apart and I started my own thing
2020-09-04 15:39:27	sandra	I'm not good at cooperating
2020-09-04 15:40:00	felix	It's hard to go at it alone even with decades of experience.
2020-09-04 15:40:16	felix	After a while it starts to wear you out.
2020-09-04 15:40:17	sandra	Oh yeah I forgot the d&d group we also have a jitsi videobridge that I host
2020-09-04 15:40:18	djph	sandra: we had that, then we started coalescing into things that were good at the time, and now it's basically AOL all over again ...
2020-09-04 15:40:44	djph	sandra: how well does that work for you?  Also, behind NAT, or ?
2020-09-04 15:40:57	sandra	I feel bad for listing off all this stuff because it comes across as bragging or w/e
2020-09-04 15:41:08	djph	d&d?
2020-09-04 15:41:14	djph	only if its 3e
2020-09-04 15:41:15	sandra	None of that is nated
2020-09-04 15:41:30	djph	ah, that's been giving me trouble like no tomorrow
2020-09-04 15:41:46	felix	sandra: nah, good for you!
2020-09-04 15:42:02	djph	but I'm too cheap to go buy a VPS just for jitsi-videobridge
2020-09-04 15:42:07	sandra	♥
2020-09-04 15:42:30	djph	how's the quality though?  tried it on their site and it seemed completely awful (as in needed a TON of bandwidth, and not nearly as smooth as zoom)
2020-09-04 15:42:33	sandra	Yeah all of that stuff is on a VPS
2020-09-04 15:42:52	sandra	I've never tried anything else but yes the quality is ass
2020-09-04 15:42:52	djph	or maybe it's just my computer is potato
2020-09-04 15:43:01	felix	And I already pay for two domain names and a shared host.
2020-09-04 15:43:16		thewetcrab has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-04 15:43:16	sandra	It's fast, low-latency but blurry and tinny
2020-09-04 15:44:17	sandra	Oh yeah, my git repos are also on that poor vps
2020-09-04 15:44:30	sandra	Talk about eggs in a basket
2020-09-04 15:44:39	djph	sandra: IKR :|
2020-09-04 15:45:10	sandra	I'm on Debian with some custom nginx voodoo
2020-09-04 15:45:13	felix	I'm using all these new opportunities to spread my stuff around a little, yeah.
2020-09-04 15:45:25	xj9	thewetcrab: you can't have 100% privacy if you communicate with others
2020-09-04 15:45:48	sandra	They left
2020-09-04 15:46:03	xj9	oh well
2020-09-04 15:46:12	xj9	that's better for their privacy
2020-09-04 15:46:44	sandra	They have a point. You'd need to trust the root user very much.
2020-09-04 15:46:57	djph	shit, I don't trust root on my personal machines
2020-09-04 15:47:06	xj9	you also have to trust the vps provider
2020-09-04 15:47:11	xj9	sice they also have root
2020-09-04 15:47:16	sandra	My co-admin is in my will, I've known him for decades
2020-09-04 15:47:21	djph	always poking and prodding and updating boxes
2020-09-04 15:47:26	sandra	Xj9 Yeah :(
2020-09-04 15:47:59	djph	why can't root just leave well enough alone? noo, they get this crazy idea to make gemini capsules, and run a server here ... and adding domains and ...
2020-09-04 15:48:13	xj9	trust isn't avoidable
2020-09-04 15:48:16	sandra	End to end, like gpg, is a must for the most secret emails
2020-09-04 15:48:35	felix	And then you have to trust the other party.
2020-09-04 15:48:36	xj9	gpg has its share of issues
2020-09-04 15:48:57	sandra	Right, the smime thing was a horrorshow
2020-09-04 15:49:14	xj9	lack of forward secrecy is a problem too
2020-09-04 15:51:02	sandra	We used to be hosted in someone's closet but he got mad at usband pulled the plug randomly
2020-09-04 15:51:13	sandra	That was 15 years ago. Lesson learned
2020-09-04 15:51:30	sandra	s/usband/us and/
2020-09-04 15:52:47	felix	:(
2020-09-04 15:52:53	sandra	We deserved it, the admin team, but a lot of other users got bit. That whole site was an experiment in radical trust
2020-09-04 15:53:26	djph	radical trust in the sense of some rando's PC in a closet?
2020-09-04 15:54:07	sandra	Everyone responsible for different bits (domains, DNS, networking, hardware, coding [that was me and my roomie]) and no redundancy
2020-09-04 15:54:18	sandra	Many points of failure
2020-09-04 15:54:42	sandra	Anyone of those points could take the ball and leave and destroy everything
2020-09-04 15:54:45	djph	ah
2020-09-04 15:55:54	sandra	This all ended in mid 00s
2020-09-04 15:56:01	sandra	We were so young
2020-09-04 15:56:06	epoch	?
2020-09-04 15:56:09	sandra	I was the oldeat at like 25
2020-09-04 15:56:37	⚡	epoch reads the /whole/ backlog
2020-09-04 15:56:38	felix	:)
2020-09-04 15:56:44	sandra	The internet was so different too. Brigading etc was more manageable.
2020-09-04 15:58:38	sandra	My current site started in 09. It's all me, which... Uh, not sure how worthwhile it has been having to learn to do every thing myself
2020-09-04 15:59:03	sandra	It's like one person doing all the positions on a ship
2020-09-04 16:00:17	sandra	"I coulda been a contender!" Instead I'm reading RFCs and hacking conf files
2020-09-04 16:00:41	felix	Heh.
2020-09-04 16:01:24	sandra	My mom is the same way, growing up with her it was all autoexec.bat and config.sys
2020-09-04 16:01:34	felix	Fun!
2020-09-04 16:01:44	sandra	Sometimes very fun :)
2020-09-04 16:03:29	epoch	< sandra> Everyone responsible for different bits (domains, DNS, networking, hardware, coding [that was me and my roomie]) and no redundancy
2020-09-04 16:03:31	epoch	so, RAID-0?
2020-09-04 16:04:03	felix	It's like in society, really. Can't live with each other, can't live without each other.
2020-09-04 16:05:19	felix	Some people are doers and other are enablers, but we crush the former and humiliate the latter.
2020-09-04 16:05:21	sandra	Similar to RAID-0 I guess
2020-09-04 16:06:43	sandra	RE what D&D edition. I'm sorry but 3.0 is my least favorite of all time. But even that edition has some really great stuff unique to it so it's not like I can't see the appeal. We use a mashup of editions and clones. Right now a lot of 2e, 5e and RC stuff.
2020-09-04 16:07:15	epoch	I've tried to just share the responsibilities of self-hosting in a more RAID-1 kind of way.
2020-09-04 16:07:58	felix	How so?
2020-09-04 16:08:15	felix	And yay, someone who remembers 2e.
2020-09-04 16:08:24	epoch	multiple people with access to fix any of the things when they break.
2020-09-04 16:08:31	felix	Oh, goodie!
2020-09-04 16:08:40	sandra	My second-favorite edition is RC. B/X is also fantastic and if you get to count those two as one, that's fantastic. But I've got to admit I love 5e even though we've hacked it beyond recognition as 5e.
2020-09-04 16:09:14	sandra	2e has… Not great rules, but great content. Great encounter tables, great worlds…
2020-09-04 16:09:14	felix	That's the spirit!
2020-09-04 16:09:25	sandra	epoch: Yes, that's the way to do it
2020-09-04 16:09:32	felix	And yes, yes it does. Oozes flavor.
2020-09-04 16:09:51	felix	It makes sense. It has personality.
2020-09-04 16:10:35	sandra	The rules for as bad as they are are very clearly & cleanly written
2020-09-04 16:11:04	sandra	They just weren't good at the math part of making games
2020-09-04 16:11:47	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 16:11:54	felix	They're weird, quirky and complicated, but have charm.
2020-09-04 16:12:34	sandra	The weather system in Golden Voyages has a tendency to very quickly spin out into never-ending hurricanes
2020-09-04 16:13:27	felix	Yikes.
2020-09-04 16:13:28	sandra	Uh... As just one example of a wonky subsystem
2020-09-04 16:13:37	kline	sounds amazing
2020-09-04 16:13:39	sandra	Not to get all reductionist and pick apart every subsystem
2020-09-04 16:13:53	sandra	That's just one I spent extra effort on
2020-09-04 16:14:00	kline	arkham horror has a terror level that this reminds me of
2020-09-04 16:14:06	sandra	https://idiomdrottning.org/aq-golden-voyages-state-machine/ (this isn't on gemspace yet)
2020-09-04 16:14:37	felix	kline: AD&D2 was a cultural phenomenon, and deserved it.
2020-09-04 16:14:41	kline	the entire game is a race against increasingly hostile atmospherics, short campaigns where the weather system becomes a limiting/difficulty raising factor could be a giggle
2020-09-04 16:15:38	sandra	The problem is that you spend a lot of effort determining what the weather is and then it spends all of the time in what was designed to be an outlier anyway
2020-09-04 16:16:05	sandra	The weather system in Ghosts of Saltmarsh (for 5e) is better. Less effort and there can be magical storms and such. So more flavor
2020-09-04 16:20:08	felix	Well, hindsight is 20/20.
2020-09-04 16:20:13	sandra	♥
2020-09-04 16:20:27	sandra	Yeah, I'm not ragging on 2e. We're using a ton of 2e stuff in our game
2020-09-04 16:21:30	sandra	There is this system for rolling legal verdicts in the Land of Fate box set that we're getting a ton of use out of
2020-09-04 16:21:41	sandra	Both for the PCs and for various other apprehended people
2020-09-04 16:22:03	felix	Interesting!
2020-09-04 16:22:12	djph	2e whatsitnow?
2020-09-04 16:22:23	felix	AD&D2
2020-09-04 16:22:43	felix	Advanced Dungeons&Dragons, second edition.
2020-09-04 16:22:48	sandra	The elementalist got fined 100 dinars for reckless use of cursed item
2020-09-04 16:22:50	djph	oh okay good
2020-09-04 16:23:13	@tomasino	i learned D&D on the basic rules, and later AD&D 2nd edition. I thought it was a huge improvement. When 3.0 came out i was skeptical but quickly grew to love it, especially the THAC0 stuff being simplified. When 3.5 came out I was so excited they fixed all the issues in 3.0. Then when Pathfinder came around I was so excited they fixed all the issues in 3.5. (we shall never talk
2020-09-04 16:23:13	@tomasino	about 4th edition)
2020-09-04 16:23:14	djph	as long as your not hawkin' 5e as best (or tryin to tell us there was a 4e)
2020-09-04 16:23:37	djph	3.0 had issues certainly .. .but the closest I can get to AD&D is baldur's gate
2020-09-04 16:23:41	@tomasino	5th ed seems to have some neat ideas, and pathfinder 2 looks interesting too, but i haven't played either
2020-09-04 16:23:54	@tomasino	Fate Core is my go-to fav system these days
2020-09-04 16:24:07	djph	5e comes off as D&D easy mode
2020-09-04 16:24:55	@tomasino	in some ways, yeah. But it doesn't feel like a video game played in slow-mo on pen & paper like 4th
2020-09-04 16:24:56	sandra	My players suck so the fact that our game has a ton of stuff from 5e is probably good for them. We've been playing for six years but still a ton of characters die every week
2020-09-04 16:25:00	djph	couple of the guys in my group have it, but the best they describe it as is WoW on paper
2020-09-04 16:25:07	felix	Fate Core is a fine successor to Fudge, yeah. I've read some of the sourcebooks based on it, they have interesting ideas.
2020-09-04 16:25:23	sandra	We switched from Fate Core to D&D when 5e came out. The fate point economy was always clogging up for us
2020-09-04 16:25:29	djph	I just lost my 2 year Healer a couple of weeks back.
2020-09-04 16:25:33	sandra	People either had too many fate points or too few
2020-09-04 16:25:49	@tomasino	i can see that
2020-09-04 16:26:21	@tomasino	i have a couple players that really grok it and do well, but a few others that horde their points and never go for the compel and they end up just sitting around a lot
2020-09-04 16:26:30	@tomasino	it's got a very different vibe and flow
2020-09-04 16:26:47	djph	I never liked when the DM would bring in fate points
2020-09-04 16:26:51	felix	5e struck me as a kind of familiar land for old-timers to find themselves in, made comfy by recent renovations.
2020-09-04 16:26:58	sandra	The advantage/disadvantage/inspiration system in 5e is kind of a rip-off of Fate in some ways but it doesn't stack which is good, doesn't lead to the heavy swings of Fate, and it doesn't cost any points to engage with the environment, and when you have to spend points you do it before the roll, not after, feels less liek a retcon
2020-09-04 16:27:04	djph	sure they were nice to stave off death if you remembered you had them, but ... ehhh
2020-09-04 16:27:16	felix	Newcomers aren't going to know or care who Bruenor Battlehammer is.
2020-09-04 16:27:36	felix	Especially if they're, like, 20 years old.
2020-09-04 16:27:39	sandra	Some newcomers get weirdly invested in old lore :)
2020-09-04 16:27:43	djph	^
2020-09-04 16:28:06	@tomasino	i tried reading a forgotten realms book the other day
2020-09-04 16:28:10	@tomasino	ugh, i cannot go back
2020-09-04 16:28:10	felix	Well, yeah, there are always those who look back.
2020-09-04 16:28:25	sandra	It's funny, early 5e releases were super retro, all about cameos from Volo etc etc but now a lot of the fandom is all about Exandria and Wildemount. Which is fine, each time has its own lore, IDK.
2020-09-04 16:46:52	felix	Can't live all our lives in the past. Even as we age.
2020-09-04 16:52:56	sandra	Speaking of Bruenor… They're gonna make Magic cards with Forgotten Realms characters next summer! So he might have a second life in cardboard form :D
2020-09-04 16:54:17	felix	Interesting!
2020-09-04 17:54:28		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-04 18:20:38		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-04 19:08:43	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 19:31:10	sandra	Why is there so much nazi on Fedi in FOSS spaces :(
2020-09-04 19:31:37	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 19:32:10	sandra	Like, I could understamd if there were some, but it seems like it's all day every day
2020-09-04 19:40:41	@tomasino	people are horrible
2020-09-04 19:45:02	acdw	uh oh what happend?!
2020-09-04 19:47:47	acdw	ah nvm .. read thru the logs. I'm playin 5e now but that's all i've done
2020-09-04 19:54:23		nytpu has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-04 19:58:39	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 19:58:47	xj9	sandra: sometimes i wonder if they're just good at being loud
2020-09-04 20:00:03	xj9	i think a whitelist federation would be easier to deal with from a moderation perspective
2020-09-04 20:00:22	xj9	maybe more like FOAF whitelist, so you don't have to be approving every instance that comes up
2020-09-04 20:01:12	acdw	xj9: that is 1000% accuate
2020-09-04 20:01:18	xj9	hops = 2 is still a big network of folks that you're less likely to butt heads with i think?
2020-09-04 20:02:55	idf	after a long day of work i finally got client certificate authorisation working :)
2020-09-04 20:05:32	idf	paths where client certificates are required can be configured alongside a path to a file that contains authorised certificates for the respective path(just a .pem with a bunch of certs basically)
2020-09-04 20:14:20		acdw has left #gemini ("Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients")
2020-09-04 20:14:54	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 20:28:52	sandra	They're good at being many and at being everywhere is what they are
2020-09-04 20:45:53	xj9	my question is, how do they do that? and how can it be countered?
2020-09-04 20:47:11	xj9	i think FOAF is a potential approach for filtering, but it doesn't prevent them. a FOAF whitelist would only create a trust barrier between the social groups
2020-09-04 20:47:47	xj9	not that communicating with them is helpful and maybe the only problem is that there isn't a barrier
2020-09-04 20:48:35	xj9	open nets tend to have this problem with flooding and cultural dilution
2020-09-04 20:54:56	companion_cube	ahah for a second I thought this was #lobsters
2020-09-04 20:54:57	companion_cube	foaf indeed
2020-09-04 20:56:10	acdw	foaf?
2020-09-04 20:56:43		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-04 20:57:53	@tomasino	First out as fuck
2020-09-04 20:58:14	xj9	friend of a friend
2020-09-04 20:58:19	@tomasino	Oh
2020-09-04 20:58:24	@tomasino	That makes more sense
2020-09-04 20:58:38	xj9	sorry, assuming terms are common terms
2020-09-04 20:58:45	acdw	omg
2020-09-04 20:58:56	acdw	tomasino: i don't even know where to begin lol
2020-09-04 20:59:09	acdw	xj9: thanks for the info! no worries about terms. i'm learning!
2020-09-04 20:59:09	@tomasino	Heehee
2020-09-04 20:59:12	companion_cube	fricking open as fuck?
2020-09-04 20:59:26	acdw	faff off and fart
2020-09-04 21:13:11		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-04 21:15:39	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 21:15:46		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-04 21:49:18		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-04 22:21:39	▬▬▶	lain1 has joined #gemini
2020-09-04 22:21:57		lain has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-04 22:21:57	ℹ 	lain1 is now known as lain
2020-09-04 22:46:43	@tomasino	fart!
2020-09-04 22:47:06	xj9	kek
2020-09-05 00:25:16	makeworld	I updated my GUS stats graph so it's a lot cleaner
2020-09-05 00:25:25	makeworld	Any thoughts on the aspect ratio?
2020-09-05 00:25:52	makeworld	gemini://makeworld.gq/gus-graph/
2020-09-05 00:26:07	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/makeworld.gq/gus-graph/graph.png?raw=1
2020-09-05 00:27:28	makeworld	It uses a 2:1 aspect ratio rn
2020-09-05 00:47:06	kevinsan	it looks fine to me - aspect ratio not so critical, since I'd have to consider the axis ranges to make sense in any case
2020-09-05 00:49:32	kevinsan	it's interesting to look at, it's hinting at moving past linear growth
2020-09-05 00:54:39	makeworld	Thanks
2020-09-05 00:54:43	makeworld	Yeah it is interesting
2020-09-05 00:55:13	makeworld	Unfortunately the number of pages is noisy/distorted due to domains going up & down, and site cleanups
2020-09-05 00:55:51	makeworld	As GUS gathers more data the trends should be come more obvious and less noisy
2020-09-05 01:42:20		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-05 01:53:57	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 02:48:40	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 02:58:41		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-05 03:09:19	▬▬▶	drskrzyk has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 03:10:14		drskrzyk has left #gemini
2020-09-05 03:33:22		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-05 03:35:58	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 04:07:24		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-05 04:07:40	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 04:38:36	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 05:37:06	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 05:41:58		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-05 06:27:05	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 06:39:39		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-05 06:41:28	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 07:54:11	sandra	I just found out that you don't have to restart to add gemini:// to Pleroma, I was doing it wrong. In Admin FE after you type it in you have to click on what you typed. Don't shoot the messenger on that train wreck of a UX
2020-09-05 07:54:38	sandra	Also you don't have to add the :// part
2020-09-05 07:54:50	sandra	That, I already knew. But just in case someone else was referring to this later
2020-09-05 08:05:08	sandra	I wrote up how I did it. gemini://idiomdrottning.org/gemini-on-pleroma.gmi ← Will show up on CAPCOM too.
2020-09-05 09:30:10	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 09:33:29		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-05 09:35:17	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 10:30:07	@tomasino	Oh nice
2020-09-05 10:30:09	@tomasino	That's easy
2020-09-05 10:30:53	sandra	Yeah I really went over the river after water the way I did it the first time :D
2020-09-05 10:31:25	sandra	Pleroma also have a Gopher front end and an SSH frontend but both are pretty much just toy implementations at this point
2020-09-05 10:31:42	sandra	Someone could write a Gemini front end using GIG or a similar setup. IDK
2020-09-05 10:31:58	sandra	That doesn't seem like something especially urgent
2020-09-05 10:43:22		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-05 10:45:29	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 10:52:43		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-05 10:54:52	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 11:27:16	autumnova	I hate so say, I'm in love with gemini. Just did my first gemini page and the only thing I'm "missing" are markdown styled tables.
2020-09-05 11:27:32	autumnova	s/I hate so say//
2020-09-05 11:32:06	djph	y'know, I read that as "I have to say"
2020-09-05 11:44:14	autumnova	The first part was meant for another channel, forgot to delte it ^^
2020-09-05 11:45:52	autumnova	s/delte/delete
2020-09-05 11:45:59	autumnova	Something's wrong with my English today, sry.
2020-09-05 11:47:55		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-05 12:08:44	djph	no worries, I'm still waking up myself
2020-09-05 12:25:25		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-05 13:06:18	kevinsan	autumnova, fun, isn't it? we've been over-engineering crud for way too long.
2020-09-05 13:07:20	login	everything is a crud in the end
2020-09-05 13:13:17	autumnova	kevinsan: I'm sry, but I have no idea what crud is :x Reading about it now.
2020-09-05 13:15:11	autumnova	Web Development, alright. There's the reason I didn't know it ^^
2020-09-05 13:16:23	login	create, read, update, delete
2020-09-05 13:17:11	autumnova	Just saw that. I was never into web developing at all.
2020-09-05 13:20:49		griffin has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-05 13:20:51	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 13:21:01		hhes has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-05 13:21:06	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 13:21:08	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 13:30:07	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-05 13:31:48	⚡	autumnova waves back
2020-09-05 13:32:00	felix	Hi there! What's new?
2020-09-05 13:59:02	kevinsan	autumnova, maybe crud is a scottish word - means crap, but yeah the sentence works for web crud too!
2020-09-05 13:59:55	autumnova	Seems accurate.
2020-09-05 14:00:19	kevinsan	hi fexix - i'll tell you something new. someone said there's no server for JVM, so I wrote a server in Java
2020-09-05 14:00:57	kevinsan	i'm kind of annoyed with myself for lacking the discipline to NOT do that. i'm writing a server that i'm unlikely to use
2020-09-05 14:01:22	felix	As long as you're having fun and learning something.
2020-09-05 14:01:41	kevinsan	pretty much no on both objectives :)
2020-09-05 14:02:05	felix	Well, maybe someone else will.
2020-09-05 14:02:37	kevinsan	ok, so it's a little bit fun, and I don't hate Java, but it's kind of at odds with Gemini values (Gemserv, in rust, resident ram 7MB)
2020-09-05 14:03:00	felix	:D
2020-09-05 14:03:01	kevinsan	Jemserv, in Java, resident 80MB. And it currently does less!
2020-09-05 14:03:15	easeout	nothing wrong with making a protocol available to be used in more places
2020-09-05 14:03:29	felix	^
2020-09-05 14:03:31	easeout	see, that's cheap, _for java_
2020-09-05 14:03:38	djph	kevinsan: it's just easier to hate java though
2020-09-05 14:03:39	easeout	java is the cost, not gemini
2020-09-05 14:04:41	felix	I'm grateful to the people who make Gemini software.
2020-09-05 14:05:01	felix	Because frankly I'd rather stick to using it.
2020-09-05 14:05:09	djph	^
2020-09-05 14:05:32	djph	one less thing I have to learn how to write (not that it'll stop me from _eventually_ doing it)
2020-09-05 14:07:10	felix	Either way is fine. And I plan to write my share of code, for gemtext processing.
2020-09-05 15:00:39	autumnova	Is someone working on an Android client?
2020-09-05 15:03:16	felix	Yes, actually. It's called Deedum I think.
2020-09-05 15:03:27	login	ooh, nice
2020-09-05 15:03:38	login	is it screenreader friendly?
2020-09-05 15:03:38	felix	And its creators claim it's pending approval to app stores.
2020-09-05 15:03:49	felix	Hopefully that means F-Droid.
2020-09-05 15:04:00	felix	No idea, sorry, I didn't check.
2020-09-05 15:04:57	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 15:06:09	felix	https://github.com/snoe/deedum
2020-09-05 15:06:20	felix	O hai!
2020-09-05 15:06:41	autumnova	It's already in the play store, but I prefeder F-Droid.
2020-09-05 15:08:43	felix	Ah. Well, it's also kinda large TBH.
2020-09-05 15:09:06	lukee	afternoon fellow cult members!
2020-09-05 15:10:25	autumnova	Deedum seems to be in this F-Droid repo for now: https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/ca.snoe.deedum
2020-09-05 15:11:36	felix	I see! Thanks!
2020-09-05 15:12:11	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 15:12:26	felix	Any idea what Android version it requires?
2020-09-05 15:12:38	acdw	There's also Tva
2020-09-05 15:12:57	felix	Ooh?
2020-09-05 15:13:28	acdw	https://www.oppenlab.net/pr/tva/
2020-09-05 15:13:39	acdw	Also found an awesome-gemini list on GH: https://github.com/kr1sp1n/awesome-gemini
2020-09-05 15:13:47	felix	Right!
2020-09-05 15:14:02	acdw	Gotta admit, I don't really get the awesome-* trend on GH
2020-09-05 15:15:00	felix	It's a kind of web directory.
2020-09-05 15:15:36	acdw	^ oh, yeah , I get that, it's just a wild trend (I guess is what i mean)
2020-09-05 15:16:02	acdw	like, people just decide to make one? How do they decide who's knowledgeable enough about <topic> to make a list?
2020-09-05 15:17:11	felix	How does anyone decide that?
2020-09-05 15:17:27	felix	Should I need credentials to keep a list of links I find of interest?
2020-09-05 15:17:47	acdw	hmm fair point. plus it's on Github so like .. pull requests
2020-09-05 15:17:57	felix	Exactly! I contributed to one just like that.
2020-09-05 15:18:02	acdw	maybe I've not been thinking about this right
2020-09-05 15:18:14	acdw	Im' about to to the gemini one, actuallY! I've noticed vulpes.one's been down for a while
2020-09-05 15:18:26	lukee	maybe there should be an awesome list of awesome liests
2020-09-05 15:18:33	lukee	liests -> lists
2020-09-05 15:18:36	felix	There is! Awesome Awesomeness.
2020-09-05 15:18:55	felix	It's a pretty hefty one too.
2020-09-05 15:19:05	lukee	of course there has to be
2020-09-05 15:19:21	acdw	oh shoot --- actually I think work has just got proxy.vulpes.one blocked for me
2020-09-05 15:19:45	lukee	you've been delving into that naughty part of the internet again, havent you?
2020-09-05 15:19:49	acdw	https://github.com/sindresorhus/awesome
2020-09-05 15:19:58	acdw	lukee: B)
2020-09-05 15:20:35	lukee	just replied to your reply about NQ2 with some further frippery
2020-09-05 15:20:43	acdw	aw yis
2020-09-05 15:21:14	acdw	felix: also https://github.com/jonatasbaldin/awesome-awesome-awesome
2020-09-05 15:21:26	felix	:D
2020-09-05 15:22:06	lukee	all your awesome lists are belong to us
2020-09-05 15:23:11	lukee	At least the last one had the decency to include the shrug emoji
2020-09-05 15:23:13	acdw	I'm just going to write a repo that automatically pulls a list of every repo on Github and publishes that
2020-09-05 15:23:42	felix	Oh, proxy.vulpes.one looks nice indeed.
2020-09-05 15:24:06	felix	And also has that thing where it inlines image thumbnails.
2020-09-05 15:24:26	lukee	its handy for sharing links to people on the outside
2020-09-05 15:24:27	acdw	oh okay so it *is* up. huh
2020-09-05 15:24:40	acdw	yeah I just don't like the styling -- i'm a light theme dood
2020-09-05 15:25:02	felix	Fair enough. Me too for the most part.
2020-09-05 15:25:11	felix	Though my latest creation is very much dark.
2020-09-05 15:25:13	lukee	the mozz one is light themed. But uses serif font!
2020-09-05 15:26:04	felix	Aw. Didn't realize it was a problem for some people.
2020-09-05 15:26:28	acdw	I use mozz.us for that reason, with a userstyle that makes it even more my style
2020-09-05 15:26:30	lukee	just feels old fashioned
2020-09-05 15:26:33	acdw	b/c i'm extra like that
2020-09-05 15:26:40	lukee	not really a problem, I just like a moan
2020-09-05 15:27:45	lukee	My brain associates serif font with newspapers, books and Netscape 1.0
2020-09-05 15:28:25	lukee	the blobs of the serif are literally there to catch the ink
2020-09-05 15:30:37	djph	thank you Gutenberg :)
2020-09-05 15:31:16	felix	I didn't know that. Got website themes using both kinds of font.
2020-09-05 15:31:50	lukee	and why not. On the web you can style the website the way you want.
2020-09-05 15:32:25	felix	Right! And that can be good too, up to a point.
2020-09-05 15:32:29	lukee	As long as you didn't use a cursive font or comic sans!
2020-09-05 15:32:33	felix	:D
2020-09-05 15:32:57	felix	Would you rather I use Open Dyslexic? :P
2020-09-05 15:33:33	lukee	I don't care, I would just read your site using a Gemini browser :)
2020-09-05 15:34:41	lukee	Its a fair certainty that for everyone who has a gemini site, their website will be straightforward content
2020-09-05 15:35:03	acdw	lukee: that is so interesting about the serifs! I had no idea.
2020-09-05 15:35:06	acdw	I like serifs :)
2020-09-05 15:35:15	acdw	they're ~fancy~
2020-09-05 15:35:40	acdw	omg. just had the best idea. comic sans mono
2020-09-05 15:36:24	acdw	oh also lukee: just read your mail. I thought NQ2 was the quadrant in terrestrial system, NGQ3 in galactic
2020-09-05 15:36:31	acdw	but I didn't read that closely tbh ;P
2020-09-05 15:37:20	felix	Well, I test my sites in text-based browsers. They should work well with user styles.
2020-09-05 15:38:10	felix	But I also make my own styles.
2020-09-05 15:38:37	acdw	that's what else is great with gemini ... no author styles, so the client is free to read how they like
2020-09-05 15:38:44	acdw	also: https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/tabular-type-foundry/comic-code?tab=glyphs
2020-09-05 15:38:49	acdw	http://comicneue.com/
2020-09-05 15:38:55	lukee	acdw: yes you could be right about that, I just got a bit lost in the references you sent. Probably obvious to say it is not my area of expertise
2020-09-05 15:39:18	felix	Yeah, if browsers had halfway-decent user styles built in, we'd have much less need for CSS.
2020-09-05 15:39:27	felix	Opera used to have a set, and removed the feature.
2020-09-05 15:39:37	lukee	Actually the story of serifs is a bit more complex, I think the Roman stonmasons used them.
2020-09-05 15:39:52	acdw	oh and https://github.com/belluzj/fantasque-sans used to be "comic sans neueue mono"
2020-09-05 15:40:18	acdw	lukee: oh yes they did -- you can see it on the buildings
2020-09-05 15:40:31	lukee	But some fonts, used a lot in newspaper printing, like Times, was in part designed that way as the blobs help catch the ink and the character is still recognisible even if partly mis-printed
2020-09-05 15:40:40	acdw	oh and Space Coordinates aren't my area of expertise either!
2020-09-05 15:40:51	acdw	oh that's so cool
2020-09-05 15:43:20	felix	Very!
2020-09-05 15:44:04	acdw	Apparently Firefox *has* a alternative style thing, under the View menu
2020-09-05 15:44:19	acdw	so like, you can specify different CSS that the user can load from a menu
2020-09-05 15:44:35	felix	Good to know.
2020-09-05 15:44:38	felix	And for what it's worth, I also like making text look good by alternating features.
2020-09-05 15:45:02	felix	That works on web pages and gemtext alike.
2020-09-05 15:45:33	felix	In fact I wrote about that just recently.
2020-09-05 15:45:59	acdw	ooh link
2020-09-05 15:46:17	acdw	i mean if you want
2020-09-05 15:46:44	felix	https://felix.plesoianu.ro/web/site.html
2020-09-05 15:46:58	felix	I'm afraid it only really works as a website.
2020-09-05 15:47:04	felix	Because of the points it makes.
2020-09-05 15:47:48	acdw	B)
2020-09-05 15:49:43	acdw	liek that 3-line css. I do something similar usually.
2020-09-05 15:49:51	lukee	looks just fine to me as gemtext :)
2020-09-05 15:50:04	acdw	body { max-width: 70ch; padding: 2ch; margin: auto; font: 18px/1.3 serif; }
2020-09-05 15:50:45	lukee	felix - its funny you have a content warning for profanity
2020-09-05 15:50:51	lukee	at the *bottom* of the page!
2020-09-05 15:52:49	felix	I guess!
2020-09-05 15:53:28	felix	acdw: Right, there's plenty of room for variations.
2020-09-05 15:53:36	lukee	if you had an over-sensitive reader, the damage would have been done by that point
2020-09-05 15:53:56	felix	I use so much profanity in the text?
2020-09-05 15:54:16	lukee	no, but it seems if you need a warning, it should come first?
2020-09-05 15:54:41	lukee	I didnt spot any profanity anyway
2020-09-05 15:55:17	acdw	well the warning is before the part that is warned about
2020-09-05 15:55:24	lukee	oh, ok "every F..in website"
2020-09-05 15:56:34	felix	Guess it's less useful in browsers that don't support <details>
2020-09-05 15:56:49	lukee	huh, that doesnt show in my firefox!
2020-09-05 15:57:22	lukee	Oh I get it, it is clickable. Sorry, stupid me. Perfect design!
2020-09-05 15:57:29	felix	Thanks!
2020-09-05 15:57:41	lukee	it just looks like an icon, not an active element
2020-09-05 15:57:51	lukee	got to dash now
2020-09-05 15:58:49	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-05 16:03:08	acdw	I like <details>
2020-09-05 16:05:08	felix	Me too!
2020-09-05 16:07:55	acdw	about styling tho: what I *really* wish is that I could have a "default" style --- like the one  mentioned arelier -- b/c some websites have no style and that's annoying.
2020-09-05 16:09:13	felix	Right! And without one web pages look horrid in mainstream browsers.
2020-09-05 16:09:59	acdw	so true.
2020-09-05 16:10:13	acdw	maybe stylus *can* do that? but I don't want it to override any existing styles.
2020-09-05 16:10:35	felix	Dunno.
2020-09-05 16:11:41	acdw	I'll have to  research it then!
2020-09-05 16:15:45		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-05 16:18:54	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 16:20:46	felix	Welcome back!
2020-09-05 16:21:41	acdw	hi
2020-09-05 16:21:48	acdw	good to be back
2020-09-05 16:22:36	lukee	Nice quote: "Facebook is an ant farm of humanity."
2020-09-05 16:22:44	acdw	haha that's awesome
2020-09-05 16:22:48	lukee	https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/joanne-mcneil-lurking-review/tnamp/
2020-09-05 16:23:00	felix	Well said!
2020-09-05 16:24:07	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 16:24:26	felix	o/
2020-09-05 16:24:42	kvothe	whoa hey, hi hello, look at all you gemininauts! :D
2020-09-05 16:24:50	acdw	hey hi howdy :)
2020-09-05 16:25:05	kvothe	o/ felix and acdw
2020-09-05 16:25:19	lukee	hiya
2020-09-05 16:25:26	felix	How's it going?
2020-09-05 16:25:36	kvothe	o/ lukee
2020-09-05 16:25:52	kvothe	It's going really well, having my second cup of coffee after going for a run, how about y'all?
2020-09-05 16:26:08	acdw	mmm coffee
2020-09-05 16:26:21	acdw	i'm working on a saturday which isn't great but i'm also here which is okay'
2020-09-05 16:26:23	kvothe	bean juice!
2020-09-05 16:26:51	kvothe	true true, you're in a library, no? Monday off for labor/labour day?
2020-09-05 16:26:52	felix	Had a productive day.
2020-09-05 16:27:00	acdw	yes I am! And yes I am
2020-09-05 16:27:11	acdw	which I'm like ^_^
2020-09-05 16:27:15	kvothe	woo for days off and productive days
2020-09-05 16:27:25	acdw	yes, good job felix
2020-09-05 16:27:43	acdw	speaking of productive, i need to edit this video
2020-09-05 16:27:49	felix	Thanks!
2020-09-05 16:29:21	kvothe	my leggies are tender now, but I had to move my sedentary office-job butt!
2020-09-05 16:29:38	acdw	I know that feeeling!
2020-09-05 16:31:27	kvothe	My wife is exploring numbers stations for a book idea she got, and I'm so tickled by that
2020-09-05 16:32:20	felix	Exciting!
2020-09-05 16:32:40	lukee	what are number stations?
2020-09-05 16:32:58	kvothe	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station
2020-09-05 16:33:08	kvothe	they're so interesting!
2020-09-05 16:35:04	lukee	It reminds me that I heard there were still radio posts listening for morse signals until not that long ago
2020-09-05 16:36:18	kvothe	it's a bit sad thinking of all the old school radio stuff kind of dying out, but I definitely get that the Internet has replaced a good chunk of the same stuff
2020-09-05 16:36:24	felix	Guess there were people still using Morse code.
2020-09-05 16:36:54	kvothe	the number of shortwave stations has definitely dwindled in favor of internet radio
2020-09-05 16:37:15	felix	Probably. Though I know a couple of HAM radio operators.
2020-09-05 16:37:27	kvothe	true!
2020-09-05 16:40:53	felix	And who knows... wireless telegraphs are a lot easier to build than radios meant to carry voice.
2020-09-05 16:41:09	felix	Who knows in what kind of situation the difference could matter.
2020-09-05 16:51:16	kvothe	ah beans, I didn't get my caffeine fast enough to stave off the headache :|
2020-09-05 16:54:56	felix	Aw/
2020-09-05 16:55:55	@tomasino	hello my peoples
2020-09-05 16:56:26	acdw	allo
2020-09-05 16:56:31	acdw	kvothe: oh no!
2020-09-05 16:58:26	@tomasino	:D
2020-09-05 16:58:33	@tomasino	oh noes, headaches!
2020-09-05 16:58:44	@tomasino	quick, do that trick with your pressure point on your back
2020-09-05 17:00:02	felix	O hai!
2020-09-05 17:00:33	@tomasino	what's new felix 
2020-09-05 17:01:42	felix	Not much on the Gemini front. Some coding, some blogging.
2020-09-05 17:01:46	felix	How are you?
2020-09-05 17:03:51	@tomasino	good good. Watching vimconf.live
2020-09-05 17:04:00	@tomasino	just got back from a hike
2020-09-05 17:04:04	felix	Nice!
2020-09-05 17:05:57	acdw	oh no do i want to know what vimconf.live is
2020-09-05 17:06:08	acdw	oh thtat's awesome, i want to just watch that
2020-09-05 17:06:25	acdw	but i am at le work
2020-09-05 17:07:37	@tomasino	lots of conferences this year are going virtual and free
2020-09-05 17:07:40	@tomasino	so i'm joining a lot more
2020-09-05 17:09:48	acdw	aw yiss
2020-09-05 17:09:53	acdw	i should check emacs con
2020-09-05 17:09:59	@tomasino	do it!
2020-09-05 17:10:01	acdw	since i've gone to the dork side now :P
2020-09-05 17:10:47	lukee	the dark side of the moon?
2020-09-05 17:10:47	@tomasino	heh, whatever works for you
2020-09-05 17:10:54	@tomasino	we have options for that reason!
2020-09-05 17:11:01	lukee	great album
2020-09-05 17:11:35	lukee	windows isn't so much of a bogeyman
2020-09-05 17:11:52	acdw	haha yes
2020-09-05 17:12:05	acdw	gotta setup wine to run notepad
2020-09-05 17:13:30	felix	It has one built-in. ;)
2020-09-05 17:37:18	kvothe	low key wanna get vimwiki setup to publish to gemini and mirror it on HTTP, also lowkey don't have the energy to undertake that endeavor quite yet
2020-09-05 17:38:08	djph	kvothe: just get the name of the silicon, call it done :)
2020-09-05 17:39:37	kvothe	ha!
2020-09-05 17:40:20	kvothe	why hello, Mr., uh, Plan 9 Microcontroller? Did I pronounce that right?
2020-09-05 17:45:00	acdw	mm that sounds rad tho
2020-09-05 17:47:11	kvothe	as long as it's not "X Æ A-12"
2020-09-05 17:49:04	lukee	that man is a complete....
2020-09-05 17:50:08	lukee	(elon musk I mean)
2020-09-05 17:50:41	kvothe	he's something
2020-09-05 17:51:55	lukee	I just cant find the right word
2020-09-05 17:52:24	kvothe	\o/ jefferson airplane
2020-09-05 17:52:57	lukee	did he go to the same school for narcissists as The Donald?
2020-09-05 17:53:12	kvothe	\o/ \o/ \o/ shout out dj kate
2020-09-05 17:53:17	kvothe	erp
2020-09-05 17:53:35	kvothe	I realized I meant that was for #tilderadio lol
2020-09-05 17:54:29	lukee	is that how people dance on IRC? \o/
2020-09-05 17:54:36	kvothe	got the joe rogan, jordan peterson, et. al. crew following along, that musk does
2020-09-05 17:54:44	kvothe	YES \o/
2020-09-05 18:00:48	sandra	Hi kvothe I was looking into some of that nazi shit
2020-09-05 18:01:08	sandra	I'm getting so sick of the FOSS world :(
2020-09-05 18:01:23	kvothe	yeah, it's pretty awful
2020-09-05 18:01:28	sandra	(I am Idiomdrottning on CAPCOM)
2020-09-05 18:01:29	kvothe	I saw your reply!
2020-09-05 18:01:33	sandra	Oh that's great
2020-09-05 18:02:09	kvothe	but yeah, like, why is this so prevalent?
2020-09-05 18:02:21	sandra	Someone tried to explain it to me this morning
2020-09-05 18:02:33	sandra	There are "freedom extremists" and they fight for the free speech of nazis
2020-09-05 18:02:39	sandra	Not sure the suckless crowd is part of that
2020-09-05 18:02:53	sandra	There is just this one guy who is a bitreich user also
2020-09-05 18:02:58	sandra	Bitreich and suckless are otherwise distinct
2020-09-05 18:03:21	sandra	Bitreich aren't nazi either but uh, they have a pretty dumb name and they have a lot of sexist stuff
2020-09-05 18:03:25	sandra	And that guy is even worse
2020-09-05 18:03:39	sandra	He's always been super nice to me though
2020-09-05 18:03:49	kvothe	that's really gross
2020-09-05 18:03:49	sandra	I just got sick of this entire vibe of sexism
2020-09-05 18:03:53	felix	kvothe: because they refuse to accept how it works, despite all the experts trying to point out the evidence.
2020-09-05 18:03:59	felix	Survivors. Historians.
2020-09-05 18:04:17	sandra	In the FOSS crowd there is a lot of "free speech is the best thing"
2020-09-05 18:04:43	easeout	one of these days we're going to have to learn the paradox of tolerance
2020-09-05 18:04:48	felix	And yeah. Techbros are a related problem.
2020-09-05 18:05:06	kvothe	yes, agreed
2020-09-05 18:05:15	autumnova	Don't let yourself drag down from such people/groups.
2020-09-05 18:05:31	sandra	Here is me chewing out a guy who linked to a "reclaim the net protect free speech" site on Fedi: https://idiomdrottning.org/notice/9yoH1JKVGkDcOmqkOO I think the guy who linked to them was more clueless than anything. Every post on that site is from a "pro-white" perspective even though they claim to be about free speech
2020-09-05 18:05:38	felix	I've been one, too. :( Still can't see my own bad behaviors from back then.
2020-09-05 18:05:48	felix	Only the effects.
2020-09-05 18:06:18	felix	And yeah, funny how that works.
2020-09-05 18:06:42	companion_cube	wtf does this guy pose with a gun
2020-09-05 18:07:00	sandra	I've been off social media since the 90s pretty much and now I started using first IRC for like a month and then Fedi&gemspace for, well, since Tuesday pretty much and I'm shocked at the amount of nazis
2020-09-05 18:07:13	sandra	That's not the guy I'm talking to, that is a murderer who shot protesters
2020-09-05 18:07:30	sandra	Or if it's spelled protestors I can never remember.
2020-09-05 18:08:37	companion_cube	oh fuck
2020-09-05 18:08:47	felix	Did you run into the Tusky / Husky / Fedilab controversy, sandra?
2020-09-05 18:08:49	companion_cube	people with assault rifles = bad news :((
2020-09-05 18:08:54	lukee	how on earth do some people have no human awareness?
2020-09-05 18:08:54	sandra	And the nazi site he is linking to is saying that it was such a tragedy that the murderer's lawyer was locked from Twitter for 9 hours. And I'm like yeah everyone deserves a legal defense I just wish the people who are actually dead could've had a legal defense
2020-09-05 18:08:59	easeout	anyone becomes shocked at the amount of nazis there are when they come out in the open.
2020-09-05 18:09:06	felix	lukee: they can afford to.
2020-09-05 18:09:06	kvothe	it's strange, I don't know if I've ever been a techbro, but I've definitely been, let's say, silent in communities where strong personalities behaved abusively
2020-09-05 18:09:34	sandra	felix: Yes, my response to that was a bit chicken shit, I wish I could've gone harder on the fedilab guy, I was kind of cowardly in my response https://idiomdrottning.org/notice/9ym68TJhvGAMxEIF5U
2020-09-05 18:11:07	sandra	What's the tusky/husky thing? I checked the code bases and both tusky and husky seemed to have the same banning, or lack of banning, in their source trees
2020-09-05 18:11:07	kvothe	felix++
2020-09-05 18:11:21	lukee	sandra: sounds like you're better out of that swamp
2020-09-05 18:11:40	sandra	I unfollowed everyone involved
2020-09-05 18:11:54	companion_cube	kvothe: what do you think of sexism in  name of the wind? :p
2020-09-05 18:11:57	companion_cube	(which I really like, btw)
2020-09-05 18:12:05	felix	That's odd, it was my understanding that Husky doesn't have those hardcoded bans, which was the whole point.
2020-09-05 18:12:25	admicos	iirc husky removed and re-added the bans as a sort of joke or something
2020-09-05 18:12:33	admicos	can't exactly remember how it went down
2020-09-05 18:12:59	lukee	there is something to be said that the medium is the message
2020-09-05 18:13:07	kvothe	companion_cube: yes, so it's been a hot minute, but iirc Rothfuss wrote a lot of the female characters, especially in book 2, as damsels in distress and I'm tired of the trope tbh
2020-09-05 18:13:19	companion_cube	yeah agreed, book 2 is weird
2020-09-05 18:13:26	sandra	Neither Tusky nor Husky have gab bans in but both have a "do not translate" rick roll check in against
2020-09-05 18:13:26	companion_cube	it's a pity becuase otherwise I love the style
2020-09-05 18:13:42	sandra	Fedilab made a big showy point of removing his ban
2020-09-05 18:14:12	kvothe	he has a way with words, for sure, but not a way out of the box, so to speak
2020-09-05 18:14:19	sandra	I found Husky on F-Droid, I was like "why was this forked", downloaded both repos, grepped for gabs, and neither had a ban and both had "anti rickroll protection" against gab
2020-09-05 18:14:37	felix	Meh.
2020-09-05 18:14:54	sandra	I don't know any history or discussion beyond just grepping the current versions of the source on both
2020-09-05 18:15:01	sandra	I'm really bad at being in the loop
2020-09-05 18:15:03	lukee	can I ask a simple question - what is a "gab"?
2020-09-05 18:15:05	admicos	iirc husky was meant to add some pleroma-specific additions to tusky
2020-09-05 18:15:13	sandra	lukee: A nazi site
2020-09-05 18:15:20	lukee	yuk
2020-09-05 18:15:24	admicos	but some people out there associate pleroma with nazis because it's easy to set up (so nazis do it too, i guess)
2020-09-05 18:15:29	sandra	admicos: That doesn't in and of itself sound bad. I do use pleroma
2020-09-05 18:15:44	admicos	(also they say the dev team is a little controversial but i don't have sources for that)
2020-09-05 18:15:47	easeout	i mean, being associated with nazis is bad
2020-09-05 18:15:57	sandra	I feel a bit hesitant to go on since this is a publically logged chat and there are some peeps I wanna rant against but I don't want them to come after me
2020-09-05 18:15:57	easeout	being easy to set up is not bad
2020-09-05 18:16:17	easeout	i understand
2020-09-05 18:16:45	admicos	well, since most "nazis" get kicked out from mastodon instances, they set up their own single-user instances to be "free"
2020-09-05 18:16:50	sandra	kvothe: Did you just follow me? Or is that someone else? Just making sure
2020-09-05 18:16:55	sandra	I'll follow you back if it's you
2020-09-05 18:16:56	kvothe	that's me
2020-09-05 18:16:57	admicos	and because pleroma is light, single-user instances tend to use it
2020-09-05 18:17:33	admicos	aside from the dev team allegations, i don't really see anything wrong with pleroma, but there are some people out there who just ban pleroma instances on sight
2020-09-05 18:17:38	easeout	so how does the federation protocol act as a moderating force when the subject of moderation is not a user but an instance
2020-09-05 18:17:55	felix	Meh, these days I'm a lot more optimistic about twtxt anyway.
2020-09-05 18:18:04	felix	easeout: you can silence an entire instance.
2020-09-05 18:18:23	easeout	silence for who, yourself? or for everyone else you federate to
2020-09-05 18:18:37	easeout	like, can you forward a vote of no confidence to the rest of the network to consider
2020-09-05 18:18:45	felix	You can do it as a user, or else admins can defederate from them.
2020-09-05 18:18:50	kvothe	so on one hand, going fishing with a shotgun by outright banning pleroma instances is an extreme. on the other, anyone that's been harassed online has experienced something completely else entirely and I don't blame them for avoiding the hell out of anything that smells of it
2020-09-05 18:18:55	admicos	iirc admins can silence for the entire instance, and users can do it for themselves
2020-09-05 18:18:56	easeout	i see, thanks for the details
2020-09-05 18:19:00	sandra	easeout: You can't forward a vote of no confidence. You can "stop the buck" but that's it
2020-09-05 18:19:01	admicos	blocks do not federate afaik
2020-09-05 18:19:48	easeout	i dunno i wouldn't call denylisting pleroma at large extreme, i'd call it a first approximation
2020-09-05 18:20:03	kvothe	easeout++ # yep
2020-09-05 18:20:21	easeout	nuance can come later
2020-09-05 18:20:27	sandra	I don't want to host a Mastodon instance. The code is garbage
2020-09-05 18:20:59	admicos	sandra: as someone who hosts one myself: yes
2020-09-05 18:21:27	admicos	transpiling the front-end js code for it just eats ram like nobodies business
2020-09-05 18:21:30	easeout	i am just not on social media generally. seems like the cost/benefit is not a great deal
2020-09-05 18:22:01	kvothe	easeout: that's entirely fair, a lot of it has been designed to be a skinner box that keeps you hooked for advertising
2020-09-05 18:22:26	kvothe	federated software that emulates it without the ads isn't much better because the underlying design is there
2020-09-05 18:22:33	@tomasino	paper: thanks for the pb issue
2020-09-05 18:22:35	@tomasino	should be solved
2020-09-05 18:22:43	@tomasino	i also carried through the change on todo(1)
2020-09-05 18:22:59	sandra	I'm not on here with a pseudonym or something like that so I feel a bit exposed ranting about this
2020-09-05 18:23:02	paper	tomasino: thanks for making pb :)
2020-09-05 18:23:19	easeout	kvothe, but for all the talk of twitter failing to moderate, it sounds like the fediverse is having an even harder time
2020-09-05 18:23:20	kvothe	sandra: entirely fair
2020-09-05 18:23:24	djph	sandra: and here I thought your real name was Bob. :|
2020-09-05 18:23:40	easeout	though the lack of ads is a huge plus
2020-09-05 18:23:42	felix	The Fediverse infamously facilitates dogpiling, for one thing.
2020-09-05 18:23:45	kvothe	one thing that frightens me is AI being able to demask pseudonyms
2020-09-05 18:24:07	easeout	dogpiling as in what, group bullying?
2020-09-05 18:24:15	djph	I have enough psuedonyms tied publicly to my real name I just stopped caring.
2020-09-05 18:24:16	@tomasino	my pleasure!
2020-09-05 18:24:22	felix	easeout: pretty much.
2020-09-05 18:24:29	sandra	djph: WTF!?!
2020-09-05 18:24:34	easeout	well no wonder it has a reputation for attracting hate groups hten
2020-09-05 18:24:39	easeout	-then
2020-09-05 18:24:50	felix	Nah, I mean, this happens even with the best intentions.
2020-09-05 18:24:52	djph	sandra: for example, my radio callsign, being public record.
2020-09-05 18:24:54	sandra	djph: What caused that misunderstanding? I talked about a guy in suckless that's called bob
2020-09-05 18:24:59	@tomasino	i use my real name as a reminder that the illusion of anonymity another name gives is dangerous
2020-09-05 18:25:20	easeout	i like that.
2020-09-05 18:25:50	djph	sandra: percentile die came up with "Bob"
2020-09-05 18:25:57	sandra	Not cool :(
2020-09-05 18:26:13	admicos	honestly since i started up an alternate mastodon account not tied to my real name i rarely post on my main now
2020-09-05 18:26:22	admicos	it's kind of freeing tbh
2020-09-05 18:26:24	kvothe	tomasino: yes, I get that. it's a dangerous game to play, but it's all calculating risks.
2020-09-05 18:26:36	djph	sandra: I meant it more that I was under the impression your IRC nick had no correlation to anything about you.
2020-09-05 18:27:01	djph	tomasino: your parents named you "tomasino"?  were you born in vegas perchance?
2020-09-05 18:27:05	kvothe	for instance, I have a pretty high desire to be out as poly, but not in IRL space
2020-09-05 18:27:20	@tomasino	tomasino is my last name, but i go by it alone most of the time
2020-09-05 18:27:27	@tomasino	you can find me easily by it
2020-09-05 18:27:37	@tomasino	sandra, i just assume you're a big grease fan
2020-09-05 18:27:41	companion_cube	isn't there where being poly matters, kvothe ?
2020-09-05 18:28:36	djph	it's still more effort than I want to expend.  I mean even the percentile die to come up with "sandra's real name" was kinda high on the effort scale today
2020-09-05 18:28:46	kvothe	it is, and I am out IRL to a subset of people I know -- my employer and coworkers not so much
2020-09-05 18:28:53	lukee	@tomasino++
2020-09-05 18:28:59	@tomasino	my public-ness here is a bit of an expression of my privilege, that my existence isn't by its nature offensive or likely to get me injured
2020-09-05 18:29:16	kvothe	tomasino++
2020-09-05 18:29:26	@tomasino	i respect those who have to work around it through anon means, but just having an alias is a dangerous way to do it, easily outted
2020-09-05 18:29:27	lukee	its just a lot of work to maintain a pseudonym
2020-09-05 18:29:42	djph	or easily told to the wrong person
2020-09-05 18:29:55	@tomasino	that too
2020-09-05 18:30:36	kvothe	so, internally, I've kind of wrestled with that. I'm of the opinion that if I get outed, fuck it, I'm out, otherwise I'd never even broach the subject online
2020-09-05 18:30:47	djph	got around that with an irc box that uses 'djph' as my user as well, so when showing people stuff, I don't have to remember to not plaster my name all over IRC
2020-09-05 18:30:48	@tomasino	imagine your personal public identity and everything it touches. media, people, topics, etc.... now create an alias and overlap zero of that other space and maybe, just maybe, you can keep things apart
2020-09-05 18:30:57	sandra	This line of joke is upsetting in the context of me talking about how vulnerable I feel because I'm talking in a context where my real name and identity is easily find-out-able. Even if "you could've typed any name", I've posted my Gemini instance and my Fedi instance here and it's easily findable from that.
2020-09-05 18:31:01	@tomasino	but these days even the way you speak, the vocabulary you choose, can reconnect to you
2020-09-05 18:31:06	djph	^
2020-09-05 18:31:30	felix	There's a difference between outright stating it and making people do a little legwork.
2020-09-05 18:31:33	djph	sandra: uh, sorry :|
2020-09-05 18:31:36	kvothe	yep
2020-09-05 18:31:53	felix	Anyway, I should go. See you!
2020-09-05 18:31:54	sandra	I'm also sandra on oftc and my last name on freenode
2020-09-05 18:31:57	easeout	security by obscurity is not nothing
2020-09-05 18:32:36	kvothe	easeout++ # exactly, no reason to make things _easy_
2020-09-05 18:32:47	@tomasino	i think i missed whatever started this topic
2020-09-05 18:32:53	@tomasino	anywho, hope everyone is safe!
2020-09-05 18:33:00	kvothe	same :)
2020-09-05 18:33:10	easeout	🕊
2020-09-05 18:33:20	djph	got my hot pink hockey tape and mom on speed dial.  I'll be alright
2020-09-05 18:33:29		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-05 18:33:35	djph	... wait, that's not what you meant, was it?
2020-09-05 18:33:52	@tomasino	moms on speed dial just dated you
2020-09-05 18:33:55	@tomasino	:D
2020-09-05 18:34:05	lukee	sandra: sorry to hear you feel vulnerable that is pretty crap you have to deal with people like that
2020-09-05 18:34:23	djph	tomasino: oops
2020-09-05 18:37:06	djph	tomasino: was something the shop teacher always told us in like highschool
2020-09-05 18:37:09	kvothe	turdbuckets on the internet being turdbuckets
2020-09-05 18:37:22	@tomasino	that's what the internet is for, right?
2020-09-05 18:37:36	@tomasino	it's where we harvest our turdbuckets
2020-09-05 18:37:37	kvothe	it's a fine balance between dodging turdbucketry and finding community
2020-09-05 18:37:47	djph	kvothe: funny how the facade of anonymity does that to people, innit?
2020-09-05 18:38:06	kvothe	it's both, really
2020-09-05 18:38:18	@tomasino	turdbuckets will turd
2020-09-05 18:38:20	@tomasino	as they say
2020-09-05 18:38:20	djph	tomasino: a rather exceptional crop this year, I think the lack of sun has really helped the growth
2020-09-05 18:39:17	lukee	seems pleasant we havent had any pop up on gemini yet
2020-09-05 18:39:34	kvothe	take, for instance, people entering zoom meetings and blaring porn in front of school kids
2020-09-05 18:39:36	⚡	tomasino knocks on wood
2020-09-05 18:40:04	admicos	gemini's still pretty small and in the places where i see it, it's always very much away from those kinds of people
2020-09-05 18:40:24	@tomasino	every time it hits HN we run the risk
2020-09-05 18:40:27	kvothe	egged on, I'm sure, by a bunch of likeminded pseudonymous folks
2020-09-05 18:40:34	kvothe	tomasino: agreed
2020-09-05 18:40:35	@tomasino	we've been pretty lucky so far that it's brought in a good crowd of people
2020-09-05 18:40:43	admicos	oh hn exists i forgot
2020-09-05 18:41:16	lukee	is HN that bad - most of the idiots seem to get "greyed out"
2020-09-05 18:41:28	@tomasino	it can be
2020-09-05 18:41:31	@tomasino	like reddit
2020-09-05 18:41:32	@tomasino	depends
2020-09-05 18:41:34	lukee	maybe there are many lurkers
2020-09-05 18:42:31	lukee	its always funny watching the comments when Gemini comes up. You can even see their face of total non comprehension
2020-09-05 18:42:49	admicos	but what if you just used http so we can shove some js into it
2020-09-05 18:43:11	lukee	I'm exaggerating of course. I own up to finding Gemini via HN
2020-09-05 18:44:20	lukee	I'm a true cult follower now
2020-09-05 18:44:56	CommunistWolf	boycott YC \o/
2020-09-05 18:45:06	@tomasino	heh
2020-09-05 18:45:13	@tomasino	i still go on lobsters, but not HN anymore
2020-09-05 18:45:16	sandra	I heard two different, unrelated people talking about Gemini in one day. I don't think they know each other. First the aforementioned Bob from suckless/bitreich, and then later Alex Schroeder.
2020-09-05 18:45:18	@tomasino	the comments get nasty
2020-09-05 18:45:34	@tomasino	alex hangs in here a bunch
2020-09-05 18:45:45	⚡	tomasino sighs about bitreich & suckless
2020-09-05 18:46:10	⚡	djph is clueless to either
2020-09-05 18:46:31	@tomasino	you're better off for it
2020-09-05 18:46:37	sandra	I've talked to Alex on freenode
2020-09-05 18:46:41	@tomasino	just another toxit corner of teh internet 
2020-09-05 18:46:47	@tomasino	toxic*
2020-09-05 18:47:01	sandra	I was the hugest fan of suckless up until kvothe's post :(
2020-09-05 18:47:17	sandra	But a lot of sexism in the community though
2020-09-05 18:47:39	sandra	Again why am I putting my neck on the line in a publically logged channel?! I am so stupid
2020-09-05 18:47:57	sandra	Why can't I zip it with the "this group/person/channel is so-and-so" talk?
2020-09-05 18:48:06	@tomasino	we bash suckless pretty often in here. THere's a lot of noise to hide in
2020-09-05 18:48:10	djph	perhaps because it needs to be said?
2020-09-05 18:48:27	sandra	There are some really nice guys in suckless and some really annoying hubba hubba tits&boobs style guys
2020-09-05 18:48:54	lukee	Is it really 2020?
2020-09-05 18:48:57	companion_cube	sandra: connect with another nick :p
2020-09-05 18:49:03	@tomasino	nah, couldn't be 2020
2020-09-05 18:49:43	sandra	:)
2020-09-05 18:49:54	sandra	Yeah maybe I will in the future
2020-09-05 18:50:13	sandra	(Now I'm gonna get the blame for everything other rando nicks say :( fml)
2020-09-05 18:50:35	companion_cube	it's definitely not 2020, I'm listening to lady gaga in a loop
2020-09-05 18:50:42	kvothe	it's frustrating, tbh, because I had heard that about the suckless folks years ago, but I got disheartened when I realized that the venn diagram of suckless and 9front folks wasn't completely separate
2020-09-05 18:51:06	kvothe	i mean, on the surface separate, but chan culture :/
2020-09-05 18:51:09	companion_cube	what's the pb with 9front? (I have no clue)
2020-09-05 18:51:28	djph	probably the same "internet anonymity(tm)" as anywhere
2020-09-05 18:51:32	kvothe	there's no *problem*, at least far as I can tell
2020-09-05 18:51:37	sandra	Suckless people aren't anonymous
2020-09-05 18:51:53	sandra	The #suckless IRC channel is not the same as the original suckless devs
2020-09-05 18:52:06	djph	i should probably just stop talking since it's obvious that I have no clue what I'm on about
2020-09-05 18:52:06	kvothe	but just the fact that they feel the need to defend for the "libertarian culture of the 2000s"
2020-09-05 18:52:07	sandra	Suckless has had some really crappy ideas for apps and some brilliant
2020-09-05 18:52:14	sandra	Right...
2020-09-05 18:52:21	sandra	That bugs me too
2020-09-05 18:52:28	@tomasino	yep
2020-09-05 18:52:30	kvothe	I just don't want to be involved
2020-09-05 18:52:45	@tomasino	well you're welcome here!
2020-09-05 18:52:51	kvothe	<3
2020-09-05 18:52:59	@tomasino	and you can even have opinions that differ and we won't yell at you
2020-09-05 18:53:14	kvothe	smol internet is honestly the best
2020-09-05 18:53:26	@tomasino	Unless you try to inline images in gemtext... then i'm gonna yell
2020-09-05 18:53:27	@tomasino	:P
2020-09-05 18:53:48	kvothe	lol, but wait, we can encode them as base64 and extend gemini clients to
2020-09-05 18:53:51	kvothe	(kidding)
2020-09-05 18:54:04	@tomasino	hehe
2020-09-05 18:54:13	admicos	convert images to unicode braille symbols and inline that instead
2020-09-05 18:54:26	⚡	lukee shudders
2020-09-05 18:54:27	kvothe	actually, someone was doing something like that
2020-09-05 18:54:39	kvothe	I've gone and lost my mental bookmark
2020-09-05 18:54:43	@tomasino	ahh well
2020-09-05 18:54:45	@tomasino	it'll turn up
2020-09-05 18:54:54	@ben	https://tilde.team/~ben/suckmore/
2020-09-05 18:54:59	@tomasino	everyone notice that i migrated from my old tilde.black over to tilde.team?
2020-09-05 18:55:20	sandra	I want to configure av98 to open images in feh
2020-09-05 18:55:24	kvothe	side note: sumpy's explorer art is awesome
2020-09-05 18:55:28	sandra	I've posted soooo much images to gemini
2020-09-05 18:55:30	kvothe	gemini://tilde.team/~sumpygump/explore
2020-09-05 18:55:30	sandra	I like images
2020-09-05 18:55:35	@tomasino	images are awesome
2020-09-05 18:55:59	kvothe	amfora opens them through the HTTP proxy, which *works* but I'd love for it to open natively
2020-09-05 18:56:15	lukee	use duckling
2020-09-05 18:56:33	⚡	tomasino likes ducks
2020-09-05 18:56:38	@tomasino	ugh, i'm starving
2020-09-05 18:56:40	@tomasino	gonna go make food
2020-09-05 18:56:42	acdw	dang i left for lunch and yall had like, a whole conversation lol
2020-09-05 18:56:45	@tomasino	keep being kind to each other
2020-09-05 18:56:47	@tomasino	ciao
2020-09-05 18:56:49	acdw	lol
2020-09-05 18:56:54	acdw	i guess if tomasino said so
2020-09-05 18:57:03	kvothe	cheers tomasino!
2020-09-05 18:57:35	lukee	kvothe: just mis understood what you said there
2020-09-05 18:57:59	acdw	admicos: https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw/portrait-1.txt BOOM
2020-09-05 18:58:00	lukee	was about viewing images
2020-09-05 18:58:08	acdw	oh poopy meant to do a pure gemini:// link
2020-09-05 18:58:16	acdw	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw/portrait-1.txt
2020-09-05 18:58:27	acdw	also https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw/art/sleepy-dog.gmi
2020-09-05 18:58:51	lukee	it looks just like you
2020-09-05 18:58:52	acdw	s/https:\/\/portal.mozz.us\/gemini\//gemini://
2020-09-05 18:58:57	acdw	hehe thanks lukee
2020-09-05 18:58:59	kvothe	ah neato acdw!
2020-09-05 18:59:01	acdw	I am a collection of dots
2020-09-05 18:59:04	admicos	neat
2020-09-05 18:59:11	acdw	I just used an online ditherizer
2020-09-05 18:59:18	admicos	isn't everyone technically just a collection of dots (atoms)
2020-09-05 18:59:37	lukee	I hope you have some alt text on that thing
2020-09-05 18:59:42	michel	fuzzy dots at the subatomic level
2020-09-05 18:59:47	kvothe	text in group chat: a youtube link to gilbert gottfried reading WAP
2020-09-05 18:59:53	acdw	hm true fact. lukee I'll have to double-check, I think I did?
2020-09-05 18:59:55	kvothe	I, I don't know that I'm ready for this
2020-09-05 18:59:55	lukee	some poor screen reader is going to be...confused
2020-09-05 18:59:59	acdw	kvothe: you gonna share that here or.....
2020-09-05 19:00:01	admicos	also i should really find a way to make my irc client turn gemini links into clickable links
2020-09-05 19:00:16	michel	I need to teach my terminal to recognize gemini links as clickable
2020-09-05 19:00:41	acdw	I did on the art ones but not in the portrait ones. thanks for the reminder lukee, adding that to my todo-list
2020-09-05 19:00:54	acdw	what client? What terminal?
2020-09-05 19:01:03	kvothe	acdw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaF6NfyVqqs
2020-09-05 19:01:12	lukee	acdw: actually that image above is text/plain not text/gemini
2020-09-05 19:01:30	lukee	so maybe just need to put some description on the link
2020-09-05 19:01:54	kvothe	michel++
2020-09-05 19:02:38	acdw	lukee: you're right, now I'm looking at it. But I think I'm going to convert it to text/gemini and add alt-text for better rendering on smart clients
2020-09-05 19:02:45	acdw	kvothe++
2020-09-05 19:02:53	acdw	(gilbert gottfried)++
2020-09-05 19:02:57	acdw	oh snap wrong channel
2020-09-05 19:03:12	lukee	Wouldnt it be neat if there was a switch in the client to display all jpegs like that?
2020-09-05 19:04:05	acdw	oh yes indeed
2020-09-05 19:04:13	acdw	*be the change you want to see in the world*
2020-09-05 19:05:20	sandra	How is it not text/gemini?
2020-09-05 19:05:25	lukee	the only problem is the resolution is v low
2020-09-05 19:05:48	acdw	^ you are right about taht! I mean the best we have is 8x2 braille characters
2020-09-05 19:05:56	lukee	sandra: because it is just served as a plain text file
2020-09-05 19:06:07	sandra	Oh the mime type
2020-09-05 19:06:09	acdw	sandra: I uploaded it as a .txt file, so the server running gemini.circumlunar.space doesn't recognize it as text/gemini
2020-09-05 19:06:10	lukee	I like the images here
2020-09-05 19:06:10	sandra	Not the file
2020-09-05 19:06:11	lukee	https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2018/09/how-to-build-a-lowtech-website/
2020-09-05 19:06:16	acdw	oh yeah sandra that's it
2020-09-05 19:07:06	acdw	lukee: I *love* those images. sloum has a pretty rad ditherer: https://tildegit.org/sloum/lid
2020-09-05 19:07:06	michel	kvothe: I'm trying to keep my laptop free of development packages, but ... sometimes it's unavoidable, haha. this terminal is written in Python but some of its dependencies need to be compiled
2020-09-05 19:07:14	sandra	I had never heard of lobste.rs I like that they have a mailing list mode
2020-09-05 19:07:37	acdw	oh that's really cool, i didn't know that sandra. i might have to sign up for that! (Or tilde.news which is built off the same code)
2020-09-05 19:07:58	michel	does Lobste.rs still require an invite? If so I'm happy to invite anyone who needs it
2020-09-05 19:08:13	michel	didn't realize tilde.news use the same code. anyone has an invitation for it?
2020-09-05 19:08:20	lukee	maybe we should lobby the unicode foundation for 256 more "dithered" characters
2020-09-05 19:08:23	kvothe	it's the Facebook growth mechanism
2020-09-05 19:08:24	sandra	michel: it does
2020-09-05 19:08:42	michel	tilde.news - that's the one with the recent Mozilla employee AMA right?
2020-09-05 19:09:04	admicos	that was tildes.net iirc
2020-09-05 19:09:28	michel	ah. unrelated?
2020-09-05 19:09:40	admicos	yep, not related to any of the tildeverse at all
2020-09-05 19:09:45	lukee	acdw: thanks for the link to the ditherer by sloum
2020-09-05 19:10:14	kvothe	oh! did sloum put together a ditherer? whoa lemme check that
2020-09-05 19:11:06	kvothe	that's so COOL
2020-09-05 19:12:08	acdw	michel: I would love an invite to lobste.rs and I can rustle up an invite to tilde.news
2020-09-05 19:12:17	acdw	I'll have to wait til tonight to give it to you tho
2020-09-05 19:13:00	acdw	lukee: no prob! Yeah it's awesssommmmeee
2020-09-05 19:13:12	acdw	tildes.net is pretty alright though
2020-09-05 19:13:40	lukee	if it was in Go I'd merge that into duckling - sanitise the web, and its images
2020-09-05 19:13:56	acdw	ooh heck yes that'd be awesome
2020-09-05 19:14:29	acdw	have you heard of https://www.brow.sh/ ?
2020-09-05 19:15:03	lukee	yes its cool, but it needs firefox behind the scenes
2020-09-05 19:15:11	sandra	I hadn't heard of that but that's kind of the opposite of what I want from a browser
2020-09-05 19:15:23	lukee	and it tries to replicate the whole layout, warts and all
2020-09-05 19:15:28	lukee	but a cool project
2020-09-05 19:15:41	sandra	Yeah, as an art installation it's fantastic, very impressive
2020-09-05 19:15:52	sandra	It's just the opposite of what I've been looking for
2020-09-05 19:16:15	sandra	I also wouldn't mind an invite to lobste.rs♥
2020-09-05 19:16:23	acdw	lol yeah it's wild af
2020-09-05 19:16:54	kvothe	ngl, I really REALLY like plan 9's mothra browser
2020-09-05 19:17:13	acdw	fr? I need to try plan 9 in a vm someday
2020-09-05 19:17:23	acdw	what do you like baou t mothra?
2020-09-05 19:17:45	kvothe	it renders just enough gfx to be usable, but doesn't do javascript
2020-09-05 19:17:59	sandra	It's super weird to me that plan 9 is being unearthed. I took my whole art slogan from the ooooold plan 9 web site 20 years ago
2020-09-05 19:18:00	kvothe	it's like a GUI version of elinks
2020-09-05 19:18:00	acdw	oh that sounds aight
2020-09-05 19:18:07	sandra	Before suckless and 9front and any of that
2020-09-05 19:18:18	acdw	what's yr art slogan?
2020-09-05 19:18:22	kvothe	oh that's really cool, sandra
2020-09-05 19:18:33	sandra	Idiomdrottning demonstrates a new and often cleaner way to solve most systems problems. The system as a whole is likely to feel tantalizingly familiar to culture users but at the same time quite foreign. ← was originally "music users" instead of "culture users" back when I did mostly music
2020-09-05 19:18:42	⚡	acdw remembers 20 years ago was 2000 ... :o
2020-09-05 19:18:45	sandra	Which I haven't done in a long time, I switched to drawing
2020-09-05 19:18:54	kvothe	acdw: nope, no thanks, don't like
2020-09-05 19:19:04	acdw	lolol
2020-09-05 19:19:14	acdw	sandra: oh nice
2020-09-05 19:19:28	kvothe	someone was talking about lil pump in anonradio com chat yesterday
2020-09-05 19:19:36	sandra	The "culture" was meant to be art & literature. Not the fash seme for "culture". I should change it again
2020-09-05 19:19:37	kvothe	and I looked him up on wikipedia
2020-09-05 19:19:44	sandra	How about just "art" I guess
2020-09-05 19:19:44	kvothe	actually born in 2000
2020-09-05 19:20:00	lukee	"culture" is a somewhat overarching term
2020-09-05 19:20:06	acdw	sandra: I didn't take it that way
2020-09-05 19:20:12	easeout	i misread "music users" as "magic users"
2020-09-05 19:20:18	acdw	fash-way I mean, just thought, you know --- the way people do things with each other
2020-09-05 19:20:31	acdw	kvothe: yeah everyone famous is a baby these days
2020-09-05 19:20:46	acdw	magic users are yes
2020-09-05 19:21:22	acdw	sandra: you're https://idiomdrottning.org/?
2020-09-05 19:21:33	sandra	yeah
2020-09-05 19:21:46	sandra	Prooooobably better known as gemini://idiomdrottning.org
2020-09-05 19:21:47	acdw	i like it a lot :)
2020-09-05 19:21:55	acdw	yeah I've been seing that one on the 'COM
2020-09-05 19:22:11	sandra	Thank you, acdw, that is very sweet
2020-09-05 19:22:17	acdw	:D
2020-09-05 19:22:41	acdw	here's a Q: why isn't the "standard subdomain" of HTTP, well, http ? like, http.google.com, http.whatever.com
2020-09-05 19:22:42	sandra	Yeah I've been "smol html" since 2009. I've swapped out the underlying backend code a couple of times
2020-09-05 19:22:53	acdw	instead of wwww
2020-09-05 19:22:57	acdw	s/w$//
2020-09-05 19:23:02	sandra	Because the domain is not a protocol…?
2020-09-05 19:23:13	acdw	I know the feeling of swapping out a site's backend a ton lol!
2020-09-05 19:23:15	easeout	because www was so cool to type in 1995
2020-09-05 19:23:29	acdw	Yeah, but like, a lot of gemini sites are gem.example.com or gemini.example.com
2020-09-05 19:23:32	easeout	now we even have a ligature for it
2020-09-05 19:23:32	sandra	But https://idiomdrottning.org/about is the same layout/CSS I've had for 11 years♥ that used to be the front page but a few years ago I switched the front page to be the current image gallery
2020-09-05 19:23:35	lukee	back in the day when you had to type "http://"
2020-09-05 19:23:38	acdw	haha you're right on that easeout
2020-09-05 19:23:50	sandra	It feels weird to type the same thing twice
2020-09-05 19:23:58	acdw	aitch tee tee pee colon slash slash double u double u double u dot
2020-09-05 19:24:11	acdw	that's my problem. I don't like typing gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-09-05 19:24:18	sandra	Same AF!
2020-09-05 19:24:19	acdw	it's a dumb compaint but
2020-09-05 19:24:36	easeout	well like, ideally port 80 would go to one server and port 1965 would go to another, so
2020-09-05 19:24:45	kvothe	the pin number problem :^)
2020-09-05 19:24:52	easeout	the subdomain is not really necessary at all
2020-09-05 19:24:54	acdw	oh yeah that site is rad sandra, making me want to redesign mine ... again
2020-09-05 19:25:21	acdw	easeout: yes, that's what I'm starting to think. Shame b/c I got suckered into the "always www" crowd when I was ssetting up my personal domain
2020-09-05 19:25:27	acdw	I guess I'll just ... have to change it lol
2020-09-05 19:25:42	acdw	what's the pin number problem?
2020-09-05 19:25:48	easeout	yeah i prefer to just forward to the base domain.
2020-09-05 19:26:02	kvothe	you know, like automatic teller machine machines, or atm machines
2020-09-05 19:26:05	sandra	I have www. setup too, but not gemini.
2020-09-05 19:26:22	sandra	I don't have a redirect so if I used cookies it'd get confused
2020-09-05 19:26:37	sandra	They just both point to the same server
2020-09-05 19:26:39	sandra	In nginx
2020-09-05 19:26:51	michel	acdw: what's a good email for you?
2020-09-05 19:26:58	michel	oh I see your private chat, one sec
2020-09-05 19:26:59	acdw	I think, Ideally, I'd want www. -> http:, gem. -> gemini:, gopher. -> gohper:, etc
2020-09-05 19:27:06	acdw	hehe
2020-09-05 19:27:32	michel	question to everyone -- should I add gopher:// URL detection to Kitty in addition to adding gemini://, or just gemini is enough these days?
2020-09-05 19:27:35	acdw	oh also I keep meaning to respond to your bread thing but I haven't yet
2020-09-05 19:27:43	acdw	michel: do you browse gopher a lot?
2020-09-05 19:27:48	sandra	I also have email and Jabber on that same server
2020-09-05 19:28:13	sandra	My Jabber address is the same as my email address. But, I'm thinking of adding an alias —
2020-09-05 19:28:18	sandra	Holy shit there just was a weird flash outside
2020-09-05 19:28:34	sandra	It's a full moon, I think moon phases are global right? IIRC?
2020-09-05 19:28:54	sandra	— I'm thinking of adding an alias so I can have my Fedi, Jabber and email all three be the same
2020-09-05 19:28:54	lukee	michel: what is kitty?
2020-09-05 19:29:03	sandra	You can't have periods in the username on Fedi.
2020-09-05 19:29:15	kvothe	side note, some proprietary software I use at work has an option to display the phase of the moon in the corner between horizontal and vertical scrollbars
2020-09-05 19:29:22	kvothe	it's kind of the best
2020-09-05 19:30:12	admicos	one day you glance at the corner, no icon. it turns out the moon has disappeared
2020-09-05 19:30:24	sandra	man 6 xphoon
2020-09-05 19:30:40	michel	lukee: a terminal emulator that's GL accelerated. https://ithub.com/kovidgoyal/kitty
2020-09-05 19:31:00	michel	I use it because it does font ligatures, mostly. so I see a greater than sign when I type >=
2020-09-05 19:31:11	sandra	Can it do proportional well?
2020-09-05 19:31:23	michel	acdw: not that much, I'm trying to use more Gemini - but some resources are still gopher only right?
2020-09-05 19:31:26	kvothe	lol
2020-09-05 19:31:50	michel	sandra: not sure. It's a terminal so I mostly use monospace fonts (like Fira Code)
2020-09-05 19:31:59	michel	gtg all, will catch up later
2020-09-05 19:32:04	sandra	Thanx michel
2020-09-05 19:32:05	kvothe	ciao michel o/
2020-09-05 19:32:11	sandra	I have proportional in emacs but monospace in terminals
2020-09-05 19:32:33	lukee	michel: so the idea is that you have a clickable link that launches some app for the protocol?
2020-09-05 19:32:51	acdw	oh michel left. well for posterity: gopher is still a thriving protocol
2020-09-05 19:33:05	lukee	ah well
2020-09-05 19:33:32	lukee	but do the gopher inhabitants *want* to be connected to?
2020-09-05 19:33:47	lukee	I think it is not entirely clear
2020-09-05 19:33:52	acdw	sandra: the author/maintainer of Kitty refuses to support fonts that are proportional or even that aren't properly marked (however that is) as monospace. I quit using it for a while b/c of that, I wanted a font that wouldn't work.
2020-09-05 19:34:03	acdw	lukee: good q. who knows
2020-09-05 19:34:27	sandra	Urvxt looks messed up with a non-monospace font
2020-09-05 19:34:33	lukee	but still, that shouldnt drive the decision, just a random observation!
2020-09-05 19:34:40	acdw	haha eys
2020-09-05 19:34:43	acdw	s/eys/yes
2020-09-05 19:34:59	acdw	yeah, most terminals do -- they draw based on rectangular cells I think/
2020-09-05 19:34:59	acdw	?
2020-09-05 19:35:33	sandra	Yeah.
2020-09-05 19:36:36	admicos	if only kitty didn't mess up with iosevka's '=' ligature
2020-09-05 19:36:58	admicos	it's special in that the ligature technically goes on forever (or something like that, kinda forgot the dedails)
2020-09-05 19:38:05	lukee	Shouldnt we all be using unicode now not ligatures?
2020-09-05 19:38:45	lukee	(I mean aesthetic things like a pretty "ff" is ok, but the weirder ones, just have unicode code points)
2020-09-05 19:39:27	easeout	character encoding and font ligatures are separate concerns
2020-09-05 19:39:33	easeout	or, should be, right?
2020-09-05 19:39:47	lukee	like <= being turned into  ≤
2020-09-05 19:40:00	easeout	oic. right that's not a ligature
2020-09-05 19:40:10	acdw	yeah? idk honestly
2020-09-05 19:40:16	easeout	what i see on my screen rendering in fira code on the left side of your message is a ligature
2020-09-05 19:40:18	lukee	no but some programming fonts make a virtue of it
2020-09-05 19:40:35	easeout	i think you're conflating two concepts
2020-09-05 19:40:38	acdw	one thing I do like is haskell accepts the actual unicode characters as operators as well as the ascii versions
2020-09-05 19:40:39	lukee	possibly
2020-09-05 19:40:42	sandra	I use lambda, ≤ and ≥ but not the others
2020-09-05 19:40:57	sandra	I liked those two because they help me make fewer mistakes not more mistakes
2020-09-05 19:41:13	sandra	easeout: It is implemented as a ligature
2020-09-05 19:41:31	easeout	when i type a < and a = next to one another as <=, i see a special glyph in my font. that's a ligature. the less than or equals _character_ is not a ligature over multiple characters that replaces multiple glyphs, it's its own one-character glyph
2020-09-05 19:41:41	lukee	I see ligatures as a legacy convenience for writing in ascii
2020-09-05 19:41:48	sandra	As in, they use the same mechanics that were originally implemented to do ligatures like ffi, tt, fl etc but use it to display ≥
2020-09-05 19:41:53	lukee	when it comes to mathematical symbols etc
2020-09-05 19:42:03	easeout	i would agree with that lukee
2020-09-05 19:42:09	acdw	well most programming languages still only use ascii for symbols
2020-09-05 19:42:18	lukee	yes, but now we have unicode
2020-09-05 19:42:19	easeout	they are nice for programming, but for fancy math symbols you probably want the math characters
2020-09-05 19:42:38	lukee	well, I dont really have a horse in this race
2020-09-05 19:42:44	acdw	depending on langauge, you could implement the unicode characters as operators
2020-09-05 19:42:50	acdw	yeah me neither lol
2020-09-05 19:43:13	admicos	how would you even type the unicode symbol for, say, >=
2020-09-05 19:43:29	lukee	well that presupposes a certain kind of UI
2020-09-05 19:43:36	lukee	that means it is currently hard
2020-09-05 19:44:01	lukee	we have inherited the ascii symbol set from our forebears
2020-09-05 19:44:17	easeout	today, you'd probably use symbols that are easy to type while typing, but maybe render from that to something better for reading. like the way markdown might give you smart quotes or something.
2020-09-05 19:44:20	lukee	so they made it easy to do ascii
2020-09-05 19:44:40	admicos	cursed idea: keyboard firmware that processes ligatures as unicode symbols
2020-09-05 19:44:49	easeout	or we could bring back APL keyboards
2020-09-05 19:44:49	sandra	admicos typing the unicode symbol for ≥ is easy with compose key
2020-09-05 19:44:59	sandra	♥ ≥ →
2020-09-05 19:45:01	sandra	etc
2020-09-05 19:45:18	sandra	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key
2020-09-05 19:45:23	sandra	I love it♥
2020-09-05 19:45:35	lukee	I think Perl has some native unicode operators?
2020-09-05 19:45:37	easeout	oh it's option-comma
2020-09-05 19:45:58	easeout	macOS has a layer of symbols for keys when you hold option or shift-option.
2020-09-05 19:46:25	easeout	yeah leave it to perl
2020-09-05 19:46:36	lukee	will we be effectively stuck with ascii for programming for the next 100 years?
2020-09-05 19:47:04	@tomasino	I have kitty mark both gopher and gemini links
2020-09-05 19:47:05	lukee	certainly I find it a pain with current UI
2020-09-05 19:47:10	@tomasino	It's handy
2020-09-05 19:47:26	@tomasino	Compose key ftw
2020-09-05 19:47:52	easeout	it might be a while, lukee. so far we have only ever added onto the standard key set with modifier keys and stuff. we haven't, like, removed keys to add others
2020-09-05 19:48:30	easeout	so lots of things are, you know, tuned to that
2020-09-05 19:48:44	acdw	i need to fix up my keyboard ... compose key, caps as ctrl, maybe a hyper key
2020-09-05 19:49:06	acdw	i'm thinking caps->ctrl, ctrl->hyper, menu->compose ??
2020-09-05 19:49:19	easeout	i do love caps to ctrl
2020-09-05 19:49:19	lukee	I'd like a key on my keyboard that shifts into a unicode mode
2020-09-05 19:49:35	lukee	I then start typing the name of the thing, and it pattern matches until I find it
2020-09-05 19:49:47	sandra	I have the hhkb so ctrl is already at the caps position
2020-09-05 19:49:57	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-05 19:49:57	sandra	I think that ctrl used to be there on some older keyboards
2020-09-05 19:49:58	easeout	oh i love the feel of that keyboard sandra
2020-09-05 19:50:06	lukee	like an "input method editor" - if you need to insert non european charactrs
2020-09-05 19:50:07	acdw	lukee: that sounds awesome
2020-09-05 19:50:28	acdw	one day, i will afford a fancy keyboard like the hhkb. one day
2020-09-05 19:50:30	easeout	i'd dig that lukee. we have that on phones; seems doable to put on your pc
2020-09-05 19:50:36	sandra	One of the reasons I've stayed with emacs is the input modes. Kind of need them since I type so much Swedish.
2020-09-05 19:51:09	acdw	is tehre anything emacs *wont* do?
2020-09-05 19:51:15	admicos	coffee?
2020-09-05 19:51:20	admicos	(well, it probably can)
2020-09-05 19:51:29	acdw	M-x coffee-mode
2020-09-05 19:51:37	sandra	Yeah but it's a package
2020-09-05 19:51:43	sandra	I used it sooo much writing my thesis
2020-09-05 19:51:58	sandra	It's not for making actual coffee but for writing CoffeeScript
2020-09-05 19:51:58	lukee	easeout: and to make it better than phones, it would only show emoji *last* in the list of matches!
2020-09-05 19:52:02	sandra	Which is what I was using
2020-09-05 19:52:13	easeout	last in the list?
2020-09-05 19:52:25	acdw	lolol
2020-09-05 19:52:30	easeout	oh you mean after word matches
2020-09-05 19:52:32	lukee	the list of unicode point matches
2020-09-05 19:52:40	easeout	oh oh emoji after other characters.
2020-09-05 19:52:41	acdw	M-x brew-coffee-mode
2020-09-05 19:52:42	easeout	got it
2020-09-05 19:53:05	lukee	I'm sick of my phone wanting me to insert emoji into everything
2020-09-05 19:53:09	admicos	i sometimes think of making a gemini client for vim
2020-09-05 19:53:13	easeout	can you turn off emoji suggestions?
2020-09-05 19:53:24	acdw	admicos: do it! that'd be rad
2020-09-05 19:53:33	kvothe	that would be awesome :D
2020-09-05 19:53:38	admicos	acdw: the only problem is i have no clue about vimscript
2020-09-05 19:53:42	acdw	oh lol
2020-09-05 19:53:48	lukee	probably I should try to
2020-09-05 19:53:52	admicos	maybe w/ neovim and lua
2020-09-05 19:53:53	acdw	the tricky thing, i think, would be TLS
2020-09-05 19:54:03	admicos	shell out to openssl
2020-09-05 19:54:10	acdw	oh yeah duh lol
2020-09-05 19:54:16	lukee	shell out to gemget - it can do all the heavy lifting
2020-09-05 19:54:30	admicos	gemget + a vim gemtext syntax highlighter
2020-09-05 19:54:48	acdw	somebody wrote this so I think it's definitely doable: https://github.com/soywod/iris.vim
2020-09-05 19:54:54	lukee	can you make the links active in vim?
2020-09-05 19:55:08	admicos	lukee: vim's help system has some linking stuff going on
2020-09-05 19:55:18	admicos	i assume something similar can be done
2020-09-05 19:55:21	lukee	(On a PC here, I have no idea)
2020-09-05 19:55:49	kvothe	vimwiki has selectable links
2020-09-05 19:56:10	kvothe	hit enter on a word, url, whatever, and it'll open it up appropriately
2020-09-05 19:56:25	lukee	sounds like the infrastructure is there
2020-09-05 19:56:38	lukee	you just have to make something a link and catch the activation
2020-09-05 19:57:07	kvothe	see also: https://mastodon.sdf.org/@kvothe/104758916305983524
2020-09-05 19:57:09	lukee	a simple stack for history
2020-09-05 19:57:19	lukee	job done
2020-09-05 19:58:37	lukee	beware: writing your own client is v addictive
2020-09-05 19:58:53	lukee	in a delicious way
2020-09-05 19:58:54	sandra	I have some ideas for hacks on av98 before I'd start my own
2020-09-05 19:59:22	admicos	lukee: tell that to moonlander
2020-09-05 19:59:26	sandra	As in figure out the terminal's height and width and use that for paging. Use a z for that a la ed
2020-09-05 19:59:57	kvothe	it also pipes to less with 'l'
2020-09-05 20:00:23	sandra	But when using t to hop around it first cats out everything instead of just the visible head
2020-09-05 20:00:36	sandra	Also when using within emacs the l doesn't work great
2020-09-05 20:00:57	kvothe	fair fair
2020-09-05 20:01:05	lukee	I think all the pages describing the clients people have built, say something like "Tried to put together a Gemini client. Surprised how easy it was, fell down a rabbit hole"
2020-09-05 20:01:46	lukee	"and I'm still digging a better burrow..."
2020-09-05 20:02:08	lukee	I love seeing that kind of stuff. Shows people are having fun
2020-09-05 20:02:16	kvothe	:D same lukee
2020-09-05 20:05:28	acdw	one of the best parts of the protocol tbh, is the tinkery-ness of it all
2020-09-05 20:05:51	lukee	admicos: It seemed a shame the author of Moonlander seemed to give up in frustration when hitting a quirk of the platform
2020-09-05 20:06:06	@tomasino	Thought you said writing your own client in V is addictive
2020-09-05 20:06:16	lukee	yes
2020-09-05 20:06:19	acdw	that too
2020-09-05 20:06:37	acdw	oh you know what, we should have a rosetta-code-style page for gemini clients/servers
2020-09-05 20:06:46	acdw	nose-goes on brainfuck
2020-09-05 20:06:54	lukee	sometimes the addiction takes you to a dead end
2020-09-05 20:07:02	admicos	lukee: it's the fact that moonlander tried to do text handling completely from scratch, and it's harder than it first seems
2020-09-05 20:07:05	lukee	or a seeming dead end
2020-09-05 20:07:27	lukee	it was an admirable attempt, not one I ever would have considerd
2020-09-05 20:07:49	easeout	acdw there is a github link collection page
2020-09-05 20:08:00	@tomasino	What language was moonlander in
2020-09-05 20:08:02	acdw	yep yep!
2020-09-05 20:08:15	admicos	tomasino: rust (plus gtk)
2020-09-05 20:08:16	acdw	ooh someone should write a BIOS that boots up and lets you browse gemini
2020-09-05 20:08:28	acdw	ooh and AND we should write code that would run on the original gemini computers
2020-09-05 20:08:59	lukee	tomasino: rust wasnt the hard bit, it was writing their own text renderer in Cairo
2020-09-05 20:09:07	admicos	(also i am trying to find a way to say "i made moonlander lol" without coming across rude or whatever)
2020-09-05 20:09:30	acdw	haha I am not taking it that way at least admicos
2020-09-05 20:09:31	lukee	Oh! :)
2020-09-05 20:10:04	@tomasino	I haven't tried that one. I need to finish my Ada book and practice and make a client
2020-09-05 20:10:06	lukee	you can tell us the real story
2020-09-05 20:10:41	admicos	imho moonlander's still the best looking gui client i have come across
2020-09-05 20:11:05	admicos	the story is that i should've just used native gtk widgets instead of drawing into a canvas
2020-09-05 20:11:13	lukee	will you return to it?
2020-09-05 20:11:15	admicos	because text, especially non-monospace text, is really hard
2020-09-05 20:11:19	lukee	yes
2020-09-05 20:11:56	admicos	well, i was messing around with some ideas on how to replace the renderer without losing most of the polished rendering, but stuff happened
2020-09-05 20:12:13	lukee	fair enough, one for the back burner
2020-09-05 20:13:16	lukee	I think we can all learn from one another. I love that there is a real diversity of clients
2020-09-05 20:13:25	admicos	the initial plan for moonlander was to actually be gpu accelerated, but i quickly realized i have no idea how to do graphics
2020-09-05 20:13:29	@tomasino	Have any pictures of moonlander in action?
2020-09-05 20:13:42	easeout	gpu accelerated text rendering is a tall order
2020-09-05 20:13:46	easeout	to do yourself
2020-09-05 20:13:49	admicos	there was one in the original announcement mail iirc but not sure if the link's still working
2020-09-05 20:15:46	@tomasino	https://files.ecmelberk.com/img/1589891854.png
2020-09-05 20:15:50	@tomasino	404
2020-09-05 20:16:51	admicos	yeah, it got removed when i was cleaning my unnamed image uploads
2020-09-05 20:17:32	@tomasino	Ahh well
2020-09-05 20:18:44	admicos	it seems to be compiling quite fast for rust standards, so i can get you an image in a minute or two
2020-09-05 20:21:01	@tomasino	Fun!
2020-09-05 20:21:06	@tomasino	I like pretty things
2020-09-05 20:21:55	admicos	aah it doesn't seem to connect to my own page. i guess i'll just screenshot circumlunar
2020-09-05 20:22:16	admicos	https://ebc.li/kiv5.png
2020-09-05 20:22:39	acdw	oh that is nice admicos. clean
2020-09-05 20:23:03	lukee	nice
2020-09-05 20:25:43	easeout	smooth boi
2020-09-05 20:29:58		idf has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-05 20:30:20	lukee	I just spotted there are some updates on GUS - including "latest pages" link
2020-09-05 20:30:52	lukee	(links generated are slightly malformed, but you can hack them)
2020-09-05 20:30:58	lukee	must be a WIP
2020-09-05 20:31:17	acdw	oh nice
2020-09-05 20:31:40	acdw	at some point I wanna set up a spacewalk that updates based on GUS's known servers
2020-09-05 20:35:25	kvothe	much excite! sloum's `lid` script is awesome
2020-09-05 20:37:10	acdw	right!? it's sooo cool
2020-09-05 20:39:08	kvothe	pretty sure I'm gonna use it like all the time *laughs*
2020-09-05 20:39:23	kvothe	well, for photos on gemini
2020-09-05 20:40:54	acdw	awesome!
2020-09-05 20:41:04	acdw	i look forward to it :)
2020-09-05 20:41:26	acdw	does it dither to braille characters? Or just PNGs etc?
2020-09-05 20:45:16	michel	lukee: back for a bit from my phone, I'm at the barber and.will go to lunch after this
2020-09-05 20:45:38	acdw	have  a good haircut!
2020-09-05 20:45:48	michel	Good point re not being sure if gopher folks like being linked. Not sure where to ask them 😅
2020-09-05 20:45:58	michel	acdw: thanks!
2020-09-05 20:46:14	@tomasino	#gopher
2020-09-05 20:46:19	@tomasino	:)
2020-09-05 20:46:37	michel	Is there a gemini interface to wikipedia? I know there's a gopher one
2020-09-05 20:46:42	acdw	:D
2020-09-05 20:46:42	acdw	I'd say go ahead and link to gopher sites yrself, since you're just making the links clickable in kitty right?
2020-09-05 20:46:56	acdw	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gempaper.strangled.net/mirrorlist/
2020-09-05 20:47:05	acdw	shoot, again: gemini://gempaper.strangled.net/mirrorlist/
2020-09-05 20:47:24	acdw	has a list of gemini gateways/interfaces. wikipedia is on there
2020-09-05 20:47:33	@tomasino	Twice!
2020-09-05 20:47:44	lukee	michel: there are two linked from here: gemini://gempaper.strangled.net/mirrorlist/
2020-09-05 20:47:46	⚡	paper looks at #gemini and sees his gemini page posted, nice
2020-09-05 20:48:02	acdw	hehe ye
2020-09-05 20:48:11	acdw	that's a great resource, paper
2020-09-05 20:48:24	paper	I am glad you find it useful
2020-09-05 20:48:34	lukee	or use duckling
2020-09-05 20:48:44	lukee	those have the advantage that you can search
2020-09-05 20:48:54	paper	I haven't been active on gemini lately, so I didn't add anything new
2020-09-05 20:49:04	acdw	is duckling hosted soemwhere? Or is it just the software
2020-09-05 20:49:10	paper	if you know about something, tell me
2020-09-05 20:49:14	⚡	acdw realizes he should've read the news about duckling
2020-09-05 20:49:22	lukee	not yet
2020-09-05 20:49:40	lukee	just the software ATM
2020-09-05 20:49:47	acdw	oh okay. it sounds relaly cool!
2020-09-05 20:49:57	acdw	maybe I could try setting it up on breadpunk ............
2020-09-05 20:49:59	acdw	maybe
2020-09-05 20:50:05	acdw	this *is* a long weekend
2020-09-05 20:50:26	lukee	its just a single Go binary that acts as a server
2020-09-05 20:50:55	paper	hmm, what's duckling?
2020-09-05 20:51:05	lukee	its an http proxy for gemini
2020-09-05 20:51:30	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/1-Sep-2020_The_Duckling_Proxy.gmi
2020-09-05 20:51:45	michel	lukee: paper: thanks!
2020-09-05 20:52:12	paper	oh, nice
2020-09-05 20:52:19	lukee	So if you have a client that can use a scheme specific proxy (like Amfora/AV-98 and others) it can access the web via duckling
2020-09-05 20:53:04	michel	Oh sweet, letting gemini users browse http rather than the reverse
2020-09-05 20:53:13	acdw	oh yes! Or you could just point it to, say, gemini://duckling.example/http/example.com, or something
2020-09-05 20:53:24	acdw	that *is* awesome
2020-09-05 20:53:35	lukee	yes, if an instance gets hosted somewhere
2020-09-05 20:55:22	michel	Nice since the two wikipedia gateways on paper's list seem broken right now
2020-09-05 20:55:32	acdw	oh lame
2020-09-05 20:55:32	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/QirSdV2
2020-09-05 20:56:35	acdw	lukee, that's really well done! It looks great
2020-09-05 20:56:54	paper	michel: just checked them and they both work fine
2020-09-05 20:57:12	lukee	It also shows some unreleased GemiNaut UI tweaks as well
2020-09-05 20:57:39	lukee	like the citation style links are "wired up" to the targets and the link lists removed.
2020-09-05 20:57:41	paper	do you have a client with 1x (input) status code support?
2020-09-05 20:57:47	paper	michel: ^
2020-09-05 20:58:12	lukee	its one way to deal with very link dense pages like wikipedia
2020-09-05 20:59:22	acdw	is that geminaut ui tweak you're tlaking about ... the blue [1], etc in ther? is those links!?
2020-09-05 20:59:55	lukee	yes. In the source GMI it would be "some text [3]" followed, further down by a link => url [3] the title
2020-09-05 21:00:20	lukee	its one of the options in how you configure duckling
2020-09-05 21:00:40	lukee	well, to emit numbered links and citations. The fancy wiring up is done by the client
2020-09-05 21:02:01	lukee	but the logic to wire them up is pretty straightforward. 2 passes.
2020-09-05 21:02:15	lukee	pass 1: collect all the links and their indexes
2020-09-05 21:02:29	lukee	pass 2: wire up any matching citations in the plain text
2020-09-05 21:02:33	acdw	mm that is Toight
2020-09-05 21:02:44	lukee	(optional - make them superscript if your renderer supports it)
2020-09-05 21:02:57	admicos	but what if the citations use weird unicode superscript characters like i do
2020-09-05 21:03:05	acdw	oh. beautiful. honestly Geminaut is my fav client out there. I just don't have windows :(
2020-09-05 21:04:10	lukee	This is the source GMI that is rendered https://imgur.com/a/LEKQ4oR
2020-09-05 21:04:37	lukee	admicos: if it becomes a common enough idiom, it could be added as another matching pattern
2020-09-05 21:04:54	paper	acdw same ;(
2020-09-05 21:04:58	admicos	lukee: fair enough
2020-09-05 21:04:59	lukee	well all the principles can be applied to other clients
2020-09-05 21:05:54	admicos	also i was looking at some markdown editors in gtk to figure out what people use to render simple documents, and everyone just shoves webkit on it and calls it a day :/
2020-09-05 21:06:30	lukee	You could try to build on top of source code editors
2020-09-05 21:06:34	lukee	like scintilla?
2020-09-05 21:07:14	lukee	but webkit is a bit heavyweight
2020-09-05 21:07:44	lukee	but it will do the hard text rendering for you. It depends what part of the problem you are interested to experiment with
2020-09-05 21:07:48	acdw	I know I use the weird unicode small numbers too
2020-09-05 21:07:53	admicos	cursed idea: fork netsurf and use its renderer for gemini
2020-09-05 21:08:07	acdw	yus
2020-09-05 21:08:09	acdw	do it admicos
2020-09-05 21:08:10	lukee	I had a look at netsurf briefly
2020-09-05 21:08:21	lukee	it is all in C and if could be done if you like writing C
2020-09-05 21:08:40	admicos	i guess i could simply shove in a gmi -> html proxy in the front of it
2020-09-05 21:08:43	admicos	and call it a day
2020-09-05 21:09:05	xj9	more netsurf the better
2020-09-05 21:36:43	lukee	hey folks - I'm calling it a night. o/
2020-09-05 21:36:56		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-05 21:39:12	@tomasino	night!
2020-09-05 21:44:12	kevinsan	admicos, your rendering looks great. who needs proportional fonts? worry about that when you can be bothered. direct canvas opens up opportunities.
2020-09-05 21:45:30	kevinsan	(like bare metal on low end hardware, old android phones, etc.)
2020-09-05 22:48:19		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-06 00:27:52	michel	paper: this was with Deedum for Android. I'll recheck with Elpher
2020-09-06 00:59:55		cat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 01:09:21		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 01:26:57	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 03:15:45	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 09:39:54	kevinsan	I notice a new version of android client Två (0.4.0 beta) has been released - https://www.oppenlab.net/pr/tva/
2020-09-06 09:53:54		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-06 10:14:18	sandra	lukee: The numbered links are kind of frustrating when I'm on a browser that already numbers links, like AV-98
2020-09-06 11:11:57	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 11:13:33	lukee	sandra: there are different flags you can use
2020-09-06 11:14:05	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 11:14:13	lukee	for example, if you just want the citation markers but rely on your client to number the links you can just use the -m but not the -n flag
2020-09-06 11:14:29		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-06 11:45:07	sandra	lukee: Wait, what app are we talking about?
2020-09-06 11:45:44	sandra	Does Duckling have flags?
2020-09-06 11:46:39	sandra	I've been really happy with the "copy" mode that md2gemini uses. It doesn't have citation markers or numbers.
2020-09-06 11:49:47	lukee	yes, I thought that's what you were talking about (or html2gmi which works the same way)
2020-09-06 11:53:45	sandra	I was talking about that example output from Wikipedia in gmi format that you posted earlier. I thought that was from duckling.
2020-09-06 11:54:00	sandra	It has the numbered links that I often see on gemspace.
2020-09-06 11:56:40	lukee	I'm with you now. Yes that is just one mode of use. That is the way I have it configured to integrate with GemiNaut
2020-09-06 12:00:54	lukee	So here is wikipedia page using duckling configured not to show any citation style markers, or link numbering
2020-09-06 12:00:56	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/FiWzgmG
2020-09-06 12:02:03	sandra	Nice♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
2020-09-06 12:02:27	lukee	thanks!
2020-09-06 12:03:58	lukee	all the various flags are on the github page: https://github.com/LukeEmmet/duckling-proxy
2020-09-06 12:04:29	lukee	and if you just want a command line app there is html2gmi which works similarly: https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi
2020-09-06 12:04:47	sandra	Right, you start the daemon with the flags, but once the proxy is running the users cant set the flags
2020-09-06 12:05:01	lukee	that is on the todo list
2020-09-06 12:07:39	lukee	The other integration I'm working on for GemiNaut is directly with html2gmi, and that integration puts a mini control panel at the top of each rendered web page
2020-09-06 12:07:42	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/CgAP76I
2020-09-06 12:08:07	lukee	so you can actually flip the rendering mode on a page by page basis if you want, or click on a link to launch the browser
2020-09-06 12:09:04	lukee	For example some pages you want to strip off the "navigational cruft" to get the "real" content
2020-09-06 12:10:31	lukee	Its just a question of building the most natural UI that works for people
2020-09-06 12:42:55	kvothe	heya, folks!
2020-09-06 12:45:45	⚡	autumnova waves at kvothe
2020-09-06 12:45:54	kvothe	o/ autumnova
2020-09-06 12:46:31	kvothe	How are y'all this fine morning, afternoon, evening, 12:46 UTC?
2020-09-06 12:47:07	autumnova	Still kinda tired from yesterday, otherwise fine. What about you?
2020-09-06 12:48:16	kvothe	it's COFFEE O CLOCK! \o/ Doing pretty well, otherwise. Might goof around on plan 9 a bit this morning
2020-09-06 12:49:00	kvothe	also, I should probably rig up my own SPACEWALK, it occurs to me that there's more Gemini out there than is available from CAPCOM and SPACEWALK
2020-09-06 12:51:34	autumnova	I still need to learn quite a lot on what I can use Gemini for.
2020-09-06 12:54:21	kvothe	a nice change of scenery from the big web :D
2020-09-06 12:59:09	autumnova	It is. I'm just no to familiar with the capabilities for now.
2020-09-06 13:00:04	kvothe	gotcha! enjoy the exploration
2020-09-06 13:01:03	autumnova	AstroBotany still blows my mind :D
2020-09-06 13:02:39	kvothe	whoa that's cool! I haven't looked at that yet
2020-09-06 13:28:20		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-06 13:31:17		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-06 13:32:04	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 14:05:46	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 14:17:39	@tomasino	so many possibilities when you consider client certs as user auth
2020-09-06 14:18:02	felix	Do tell!
2020-09-06 14:19:03	@tomasino	solderpunk did some musing about personal apps that's worth exploring
2020-09-06 14:19:33	@tomasino	basically you write yourself a client that wraps an application specific cert and hits the service that only does stuff for that cert
2020-09-06 14:19:43	@tomasino	micro-gemini experiences that are secured
2020-09-06 14:20:32	@tomasino	you could also do some neat interactive fiction, complete with inventory
2020-09-06 14:20:45	@tomasino	maybe take the lone-wolf books and use one as a model
2020-09-06 14:22:14	companion_cube	is solderpunk gone for good?
2020-09-06 14:23:10	@tomasino	nope
2020-09-06 14:23:23	@tomasino	he never came around IRC much. It's always a nice little surprise when he does
2020-09-06 14:23:34	@tomasino	but he's still active in the mailing list and on fedi
2020-09-06 14:23:45	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 14:24:32	felix	I see!
2020-09-06 14:25:15	@tomasino	polls would be cool too
2020-09-06 14:25:20	@tomasino	or even full tests
2020-09-06 14:25:32	@tomasino	multiple choice, of course
2020-09-06 14:26:02	felix	As long as it's natural.
2020-09-06 14:26:40	autumnova	The only thing I'm really missing are markdown styled tables.
2020-09-06 14:26:44	felix	If these additions start feeling forced, it's probably better to back away.
2020-09-06 14:26:45	autumnova	Otherwise I'm very happy.
2020-09-06 14:27:10	@tomasino	the stuff i described so far is all possible with the spec as-is. no additions needed
2020-09-06 14:27:20	felix	Oh, for reading material Gemini is fine.
2020-09-06 14:27:47	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 14:27:51	lukee	o/
2020-09-06 14:27:56	felix	Hello!
2020-09-06 14:28:02	lukee	hi felix
2020-09-06 14:28:17	@tomasino	o/
2020-09-06 14:28:25	lukee	hi tomasino
2020-09-06 14:28:52	lukee	what's the topic exercising the gemini crowd today?
2020-09-06 14:29:42	@tomasino	felix was asking about some other possibilities of things that could be done with gemini
2020-09-06 14:29:53	@tomasino	i was tossing out some ideas
2020-09-06 14:30:18	@tomasino	i don't think anyone has made a poll yet, have they?
2020-09-06 14:30:39	@tomasino	especially not one that requires a client-cert to get in and then limits responses 
2020-09-06 14:30:44	lukee	problem is we dont really have any kind of useful "form" element
2020-09-06 14:31:02	felix	Alex Schroeder prototyped a complementary protocol I think.
2020-09-06 14:31:13	@tomasino	he's got Titan for wiki stuff
2020-09-06 14:31:21	felix	That's the one.
2020-09-06 14:31:24	@tomasino	but in this case polls are just A,B,C,D, etc
2020-09-06 14:31:34	@tomasino	that's easy enough given one question per page
2020-09-06 14:31:38	felix	And there's a wiki where you edit via SED commands. Those are one-liners.
2020-09-06 14:31:40	@tomasino	you could do whole tests
2020-09-06 14:31:41	lukee	its a start, but I think titan is a bit clunky in its current design
2020-09-06 14:32:14	lukee	problem is how do you stop a wandering GUS bot from activating all the links?
2020-09-06 14:32:27	felix	Wait... on the same principle you could have any kind of CLI.
2020-09-06 14:32:59	felix	But yeah, it better be hidden behind an auth system of some sort.
2020-09-06 14:33:02	lukee	please dont tell me the future of interactivity is SED?
2020-09-06 14:33:19	felix	Well, if you insist on doing it over Gemini.
2020-09-06 14:33:31	⚡	lukee shudders
2020-09-06 14:33:50	felix	Otherwise we could always stick to web interfaces. We just need to make sure they work in Lynx.
2020-09-06 14:34:07	felix	Or... we could *also* revive BBSes.
2020-09-06 14:34:13	@tomasino	requiring a client cert is the easy way
2020-09-06 14:34:34	companion_cube	just require that form upload needs `X-I-Am-A-Bot: false` header
2020-09-06 14:34:35	autumnova	Didn't find anything about tables on the mailing list :(
2020-09-06 14:34:35	lukee	We need a basic interactive submission mechanism in Gemini
2020-09-06 14:34:43	companion_cube	this way search engines will not trigger  them 🙃
2020-09-06 14:35:11	lukee	companion_cube: there are no headers in gemini
2020-09-06 14:35:20	lukee	or maybe it was a joke?
2020-09-06 14:35:23	felix	Heck, a friend of mine has been looking into Minitel and such.
2020-09-06 14:35:25	companion_cube	a magic string in the url, pf
2020-09-06 14:35:27	companion_cube	in the first line
2020-09-06 14:35:35	companion_cube	felix: minitel was centralized :(
2020-09-06 14:35:43	felix	Key word: was.
2020-09-06 14:35:48	lukee	magical reasoning is best left to fiction
2020-09-06 14:36:31	felix	autumnova: I just used preformatted text when I needed one in md.
2020-09-06 14:36:43	felix	It translated just fine to gemtext.
2020-09-06 14:37:03	@tomasino	not having tables in gemini is interesting
2020-09-06 14:37:14	lukee	it is a challenge
2020-09-06 14:37:15	@tomasino	on the one hand, the markdown ones are pretty awful already
2020-09-06 14:37:31	@tomasino	on the other hand, they do provide semantic info that could be valuable
2020-09-06 14:37:31	felix	lukee: I was skeptical too. And critical. But we need experiments.
2020-09-06 14:37:32	autumnova	Awful? I enjoy them :x
2020-09-06 14:37:48	lukee	maybe just link to a CSV file and be done with it?
2020-09-06 14:38:02	@tomasino	that might be the easiest solution, yeah
2020-09-06 14:38:17	autumnova	Never used CSV before, time to learn ^^
2020-09-06 14:38:18	lukee	if the data is interesting, the end user can process it
2020-09-06 14:38:31	@tomasino	if it's just for show, drop it in ```
2020-09-06 14:38:31	lukee	CSV: a,b,c thats it
2020-09-06 14:38:45	lukee	(well its a bit more complex, but thats the essence)
2020-09-06 14:38:50	@tomasino	this,is,a,header,row
2020-09-06 14:38:52	@tomasino	:P
2020-09-06 14:39:09	felix	On the minus side, that's not visually aligned. But there's TSV.
2020-09-06 14:39:17	@tomasino	"sometimes we quote", "things", "and use spaces around commas, too"
2020-09-06 14:39:28	lukee	there was a proposal to indicate the type in preformatted regions
2020-09-06 14:39:32	lukee	so you could do this:
2020-09-06 14:39:35	@tomasino	a client can format the csv as a table
2020-09-06 14:39:36	@tomasino	:)
2020-09-06 14:39:38	lukee	```type:table
2020-09-06 14:39:40	lukee	a,b,c
2020-09-06 14:39:47	lukee	x,y,z
2020-09-06 14:39:49	lukee	```
2020-09-06 14:39:57	lukee	and it could be rendered by the client
2020-09-06 14:40:03	autumnova	I was thinking about things like ---> https://ueff.xyz/teams/aurioasc/
2020-09-06 14:40:14	felix	Isn't that already in the spec? But clients parsing it is another story.
2020-09-06 14:40:26	autumnova	It will be hard to make something like that with Gemini.
2020-09-06 14:40:41	@tomasino	```alt text is in the spec
2020-09-06 14:40:57	@tomasino	the format stuff is purposefully left vague so people can do what they want
2020-09-06 14:41:04	lukee	yes, but its semantics is unspecified
2020-09-06 14:41:28	lukee	it is one of the few interesting areas of Gemini to explore
2020-09-06 14:41:43	lukee	[still] to explore
2020-09-06 14:42:04	felix	Indeed!
2020-09-06 14:42:23	⚡	tomasino uses alt text all the time. :D
2020-09-06 14:42:59	felix	Well, you come from Gopher. ;)
2020-09-06 14:43:31	⚡	tomasino is a gopher
2020-09-06 14:43:36	lukee	I think bouncepaw wrote a piece on this
2020-09-06 14:43:37	lukee	gemini://tanelorn.city/~bouncepaw/gemlog/megapreformatted.gemini
2020-09-06 14:44:25	autumnova	That is interesting, thx for the link.
2020-09-06 14:44:47	lukee	we just need a vocabulary and let people get on with it
2020-09-06 14:45:43	@tomasino	as long as the format doesn't hinder human readers that need the accessibility of the alt text from getting the information i'm all for it
2020-09-06 14:47:07	lukee	I think the way to do it is to have a human-readable bit first, then metadata next
2020-09-06 14:47:09	lukee	like this
2020-09-06 14:47:17	@tomasino	many people seem to forget that Rhapsode (an auditory client for accessibility) was one of the first clients around
2020-09-06 14:47:31	lukee	```alt: a friendly description;other-params: foo
2020-09-06 14:48:10	lukee	or could even ditch the first bit
2020-09-06 14:48:22	lukee	```a friendly description;other-params: foo
2020-09-06 14:49:01	@tomasino	```some block of accessible text(divider of some sort)programmatic info 
2020-09-06 14:49:06	@tomasino	that's what you're getting at, yes?
2020-09-06 14:49:20	lukee	yes. CSS like
2020-09-06 14:49:27	@tomasino	```these people might use ;'s though... so |||type=table
2020-09-06 14:49:54	@tomasino	but what about clients that don't know about that part
2020-09-06 14:50:01	@tomasino	it'll read like accessible text followed by nonsense
2020-09-06 14:50:07	@tomasino	it's a tricky thing
2020-09-06 14:50:22	lukee	well it doesnt have an official semantics anyway
2020-09-06 14:50:53	lukee	CSS type syntax is v widely understood
2020-09-06 14:51:10	@tomasino	by machines?
2020-09-06 14:51:24	lukee	and it maps into human text without too much clutter
2020-09-06 14:51:31	lukee	by authors and machines
2020-09-06 14:52:09	lukee	param separator is ;
2020-09-06 14:52:18	lukee	attribute value separator is :
2020-09-06 14:52:45	lukee	nicer than foo=bar&stuff=none%20sense
2020-09-06 14:52:59	@tomasino	certainly is nicer than url params, yes
2020-09-06 14:53:17	@tomasino	but if it's going to get read out to a blind user it's still quite obnoxious
2020-09-06 14:53:40	lukee	auditory clients just read out to the first ; if the user wants it that way
2020-09-06 14:54:02	@tomasino	simple solve, then
2020-09-06 14:54:15	@tomasino	and "don't use ; in your alt text"
2020-09-06 14:54:17	@tomasino	:D
2020-09-06 14:54:32	lukee	like dont use ``` to start a line in preformatted text
2020-09-06 14:54:40	@tomasino	a bit!
2020-09-06 14:54:50	lukee	simple, but not a huge imposition
2020-09-06 14:55:08	@tomasino	it's the best compromise i've read so far 
2020-09-06 14:55:10	@tomasino	:D
2020-09-06 14:55:21	lukee	or dont start your line "* " if you dont intend a bullet
2020-09-06 14:58:50	lukee	one more for the pile of good gemini ideas
2020-09-06 15:04:58		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-06 15:09:02	felix	One more for client developers to consider. ;)
2020-09-06 15:09:11	lukee	yes I know
2020-09-06 15:10:51	lukee	as a generalised solution for content interpretation, one param could be the content-type of the text
2020-09-06 15:11:10	lukee	so ```here is a table in csv;content-type:text/csv
2020-09-06 15:12:50	lukee	```here is some python that your client could show with syntax highlighting; content-type: application/xpython
2020-09-06 15:13:55	lukee	```here is a graph that could be visualised using graphviz; content-type: vnd.graphviz
2020-09-06 15:14:40	@tomasino	worth a gemlog about
2020-09-06 15:14:51	lukee	yup
2020-09-06 15:15:25	@tomasino	time to go make pokemon with foam clay with the kiddo
2020-09-06 15:15:28	@tomasino	have a good one
2020-09-06 15:15:42	lukee	see you later
2020-09-06 15:16:39	felix	Have fun!
2020-09-06 15:30:15	mhj	Heyo Gemini fans. I'm in a strange conundrum regarding clients. I use Linux OS called Nix. Nix doesn't make it easy to use locally built binaries unless they exist in the hash-pathed Nix store(You'd have to read up on it). I can use AV-98 by invoking directly with python, but all the other clients, like bombadillo, won't run. I was wondering if bombadillo and the like could get ported to the Nix store?
2020-09-06 15:32:11	lukee	I think some of the clients have been packaged for other distros, so it should work.
2020-09-06 15:33:39	paper	mhj: maybe try a void linux chroot? we have some clients packaged on void
2020-09-06 15:34:08	mhj	I was thinking of doing that paper. I love Void Linux too, so yeah.
2020-09-06 15:35:10	mhj	Thanks for the help peeps!
2020-09-06 15:35:29	mhj	How're y'all btw?
2020-09-06 15:35:46	lukee	good thanks
2020-09-06 15:35:59	felix	There's another Python client you could try.
2020-09-06 15:36:17	mhj	I mostly lurk here, but I've been on this network for quite a while, mostly when deepend had his own tilde.
2020-09-06 15:36:29	paper	mhj: I have a script for simple setting up an tearing down chroots, if you are interested: https://git.tilde.institute/paper/chroot/
2020-09-06 15:36:49	mhj	I'm interested paper!
2020-09-06 15:37:12	felix	And I'm good too. Looking through old files.
2020-09-06 15:37:15	paper	interesting, what was the tilde called?
2020-09-06 15:37:56	lukee	if you're having problems with binaries, but you can run scripts there are other script based clients
2020-09-06 15:38:35	mhj	Uhh, trying to think of what the tilde was called...
2020-09-06 15:38:38	lukee	like in lua, Tcl/Tk and others
2020-09-06 15:38:49	mhj	Oh cool :D
2020-09-06 15:39:21	lukee	I take it you know the list here: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/
2020-09-06 15:39:28	mhj	Oh yeah, it was YourTilde
2020-09-06 15:39:41	mhj	Yup indeed I do
2020-09-06 15:39:54	felix	This one didn't work for me, but who knows: https://gitgud.io/sathariel/zain
2020-09-06 15:40:15	felix	There's also this: https://git.sr.ht/~nhanb/mcross
2020-09-06 15:41:50	⚡	mhj bookmarks all these
2020-09-06 15:42:02	mhj	Thnx~
2020-09-06 15:43:38	felix	But if you can't run 3rd-party binaries, how do you build from source?
2020-09-06 15:43:59	mhj	I run a Gemini server on FreeBSD at earthlight.xyz, but I need to redo the certificate since apparently it's expired. There's not much on there atm anyway, because I also run a gopher instance and a website on the machine. It's a Digital Ocean VPS.
2020-09-06 15:44:41	felix	Nice!
2020-09-06 15:44:45	mhj	I'm still a little new to running a website, but gopher is easy enough to setup and use. I use motsognir.
2020-09-06 15:45:46	felix	Easier than Gemini, that's for sure.
2020-09-06 15:46:20	felix	Guess you're browsing from your VPS for now then, over SSH?
2020-09-06 15:46:31		gohan has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-06 15:48:39	mhj	Oh nope, sadly I am using IRC on Win10(bleh). I had to install Windows 10 on a local machine because of school reasons. My machines aren't powerful enough to run Win10 in a VM, sadly. I'm going back to school for a technical writing cert, and already have a degree in computer programming...
2020-09-06 15:48:57	mhj	But my main machine is a laptop that runs NixOS.
2020-09-06 15:49:22	felix	Right!
2020-09-06 15:49:30	felix	But you also have the VPS.
2020-09-06 15:49:50	mhj	Indeed
2020-09-06 15:50:18	felix	It's kind of silly, but you could run a Gemini client there.
2020-09-06 15:50:52	mhj	Oh yeah, could definitely try
2020-09-06 15:51:13		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-06 15:51:30	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 15:52:26	mhj	I just would probably need to install the Linux emulation layer in FreeBSD if I want any of the more involved clients lol
2020-09-06 15:53:08	felix	I'm not so sure. many are written in Go.
2020-09-06 15:53:17	felix	And come with binaries for FreeBSD.
2020-09-06 15:53:36	felix	Others can be built from source.
2020-09-06 15:53:40	mhj	Ohh, that's really nice
2020-09-06 15:54:07	felix	Try Bombadillo, it's what we have on Ctrl-C.club
2020-09-06 15:54:25	mhj	Will do!
2020-09-06 15:56:18	mhj	BRB, gotta get something to eat
2020-09-06 16:00:13	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 16:03:16		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-06 16:14:01		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 16:15:31		rjt_znc has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-06 16:18:07	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 16:23:08		CommunistWolf has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-06 16:32:15	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 16:42:49	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 16:43:17	mhj	OK back for a short while
2020-09-06 16:46:09	felix	Welcome back! Turns out I was wrong about binaries.
2020-09-06 16:46:22	felix	But you can still try to build from source many clients.
2020-09-06 16:46:39	felix	Or for that matter look in pkgsrc.
2020-09-06 16:50:06	mhj	Ahh, true
2020-09-06 16:54:04		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 16:54:27	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 16:58:44		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 16:59:15	easeout	mhj, there are lots of options here https://github.com/kr1sp1n/awesome-gemini
2020-09-06 17:03:24	mhj	Thanks easeout! Y'all are awesome!
2020-09-06 17:03:38	easeout	🕊
2020-09-06 17:05:46	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 17:06:06	felix	😊
2020-09-06 17:07:23	mhj	Gotta go, I'll be back tonight!
2020-09-06 17:07:37	mhj	Thanks again all!
2020-09-06 17:08:47	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-06 17:09:56		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 17:10:40	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 17:19:58		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 17:21:20	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 17:36:46	@tomasino	nice work, paper
2020-09-06 17:39:17		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 17:39:19	paper	thank you <3
2020-09-06 17:40:26	paper	I will post it here too - I made a modular feed reader with a decentralized backend (in fact a set of files) supporting gemini and gopher feeds https://git.tilde.institute/paper/recrss-dl/about/
2020-09-06 17:40:59	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 17:41:53	felix	Sounds interesting!
2020-09-06 17:41:55		rjt_znc has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-06 17:42:29	paper	gemini UI may come soon
2020-09-06 17:45:11	felix	So we'll have another aggregator!
2020-09-06 17:46:11	paper	if someone hosts a version where they include all gemini feeds, then yes
2020-09-06 17:48:27	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 17:48:37		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 17:48:45	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 17:52:09	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 18:02:31	easeout	so duckling acts as a proxy server that presents HTTP content over gemini:// for gemini clients, right
2020-09-06 18:03:50	easeout	and it kind of like the reverse of https://portal.mozz.us, which presents gemini content over HTTP for web browsers
2020-09-06 18:04:38	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 18:04:51	easeout	i think i'd like to use a proxy that lets me stay in my web browser, but that i run on my own machine and can configure appearance and stuff
2020-09-06 18:05:00	easeout	does something like that exist?
2020-09-06 18:06:20	lukee	easeout: there are a couple of browser based options. for example plugins into dillo
2020-09-06 18:06:38	lukee	and I think there is at least one webkit flavoured gemini client
2020-09-06 18:07:09	easeout	mm ok, that's something
2020-09-06 18:07:17	lukee	duckling, as you say is about going the other way. It lets you browse the web from a gemini client
2020-09-06 18:07:35	easeout	yeah ok, thanks for confirming, i was not totally sure
2020-09-06 18:08:21	easeout	i'm basically looking for a way to keep using the browser and bookmarks setup i've already got, and add gemini to that
2020-09-06 18:08:33	felix	I've been relying on portal.mozz.us on mobile.
2020-09-06 18:08:35	easeout	but without it having to be a specific browser with a specific plugin.
2020-09-06 18:09:02	easeout	yeah on mobile that makes sense unless i was going to self-host that kind of portal on a VPS or something.
2020-09-06 18:09:07	lukee	it wouldnt be too hard to take some of the existing gemini client software and make an open source proxy
2020-09-06 18:09:21	acdw	I asked mozz.us's owner for the source behind portal, but he decliend. However the source behind proxy.vulpes.one is available somewhere
2020-09-06 18:09:22	felix	I'll install a native client when it's more convenient.
2020-09-06 18:09:45	easeout	nice acdw. yeah i think that is the ticket lukee
2020-09-06 18:10:45	easeout	that might be a nice first step on the way to building a native mobile client which is more my wheelhouse
2020-09-06 18:11:01	easeout	something that is gemini-native but can just push on an HTTP view when needed
2020-09-06 18:12:08		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 18:12:15	acdw	i don't remember where it was but i could find it again i think if yall want me to
2020-09-06 18:12:38	easeout	i'll see if i can't search it up myself and save you the trouble
2020-09-06 18:12:44	acdw	kewl :)
2020-09-06 18:12:54	acdw	if you do find it feel free to drop it in here
2020-09-06 18:13:00	easeout	yeah i shall
2020-09-06 18:13:09	easeout	vulpes is more what i'm after anyway; something deliberately styled
2020-09-06 18:13:15	acdw	OH I think it'd be on my work notes somewhere -- gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw/work-notes/
2020-09-06 18:13:26	acdw	I *think* it's on that page somewhere
2020-09-06 18:13:35	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 18:13:45	lukee	well once you have transformed the gemtext to html, you can style it to your heart's content
2020-09-06 18:13:58	acdw	yepyep
2020-09-06 18:14:25	lukee	I think I heard recently someone had applied a user style on top of the mozz proxy using firefox
2020-09-06 18:14:37	felix	Right!
2020-09-06 18:15:29	lukee	the mozz content is fairly vanilla.
2020-09-06 18:15:47	lukee	Isnt there some kind of extension for applying user styles to browsers - I forget the name
2020-09-06 18:16:39	easeout	do you mean the user agent stylesheet?
2020-09-06 18:16:42	lukee	https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/stylish-custom-themes-for/fjnbnpbmkenffdnngjfgmeleoegfcffe?hl=en
2020-09-06 18:16:51	easeout	oh, extension
2020-09-06 18:16:55	lukee	or the user agent stylesheet
2020-09-06 18:17:02	lukee	but that would be global?
2020-09-06 18:17:08	easeout	i think by default it is
2020-09-06 18:17:26	easeout	but browsers don't really even have that exposed these days anyway
2020-09-06 18:17:30		wingy has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-06 18:17:48	lukee	I think you can do it in firefox, not sure about others
2020-09-06 18:18:58	felix	Anyway, see you!
2020-09-06 18:19:07	lukee	ok bye
2020-09-06 18:19:14		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-06 18:20:11	acdw	lukee; I did that
2020-09-06 18:20:18	acdw	stylus
2020-09-06 18:20:29	acdw	you want to use stylus b/c stylish was corporate-takeovered
2020-09-06 18:21:07	lukee	ok - I'm sure there are others too
2020-09-06 18:22:42	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 18:23:11	acdw	yeh probs
2020-09-06 18:23:20	lukee	another approach: bolt a gemini client into a CGI script and run it on a local Apache
2020-09-06 18:23:28	acdw	that'd work too
2020-09-06 18:23:33	acdw	that'd be cool actually
2020-09-06 18:24:43	lukee	It would mean avoiding writing a server
2020-09-06 18:27:35	easeout	acdw, looks like the vulpes proxy's source code was here https://git.feuerfuchs.dev/Feuerfuchs/gopherproxy but that was shut down at some point. it's not on the author's github either.
2020-09-06 18:28:21	easeout	it might be a fork of the same gopherproxy project that runs floodgap though; same repo name on github.
2020-09-06 18:28:25	acdw	yeah .. it was, dang
2020-09-06 18:28:37	easeout	or, maybe i'm misinterpreting that other repo. anyway
2020-09-06 18:28:40	acdw	hmm
2020-09-06 18:29:04	easeout	regardless, there are a) proxies i can look at, and b) gemini clients i can look at, so i could synthesize
2020-09-06 18:29:30	lukee	what is your preferred language?
2020-09-06 18:29:30	acdw	awesome! best of luck. it's a good project i think. makes the whole space more accessible
2020-09-06 18:30:01	easeout	i assume you mean programming language; that'd be swift
2020-09-06 18:30:43	easeout	but we'll see how smooth it is for this purpose. "swift on server" is an area of focus for growth now, but it's not the language's core competency.
2020-09-06 18:31:11	lukee	not a million miles from Go and Rust, which both are reasonably well represented
2020-09-06 18:31:34	easeout	right, it took lessons from both of them for sure
2020-09-06 18:31:50	easeout	and i can always learn to read another language or two.
2020-09-06 18:32:15	easeout	ok cool thanks for helping me with the background info. maybe i'll make this my next project
2020-09-06 18:32:18	lukee	the go-gemini library is quite good I think for writing a simple client
2020-09-06 18:32:35	lukee	but good luck and let us know your progress
2020-09-06 18:32:40	easeout	thanks!
2020-09-06 18:32:53	easeout	well first i'll let you know if i write any code at all lol
2020-09-06 18:33:03	easeout	probably gonna start by reading a lot.
2020-09-06 18:33:10	lukee	a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step
2020-09-06 18:34:25	lukee	writing a gemini client is quite rewarding, but you can make progress quite rapidly as things like TLS are often commoditised
2020-09-06 18:46:53		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 18:51:21		lukee has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-09-06 18:51:40	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 19:33:58		acdw has left #gemini ("Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients")
2020-09-06 20:04:56	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 20:52:50		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 20:56:23	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 21:59:04		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-06 22:00:14	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 22:14:13		tiwesdaeg has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-06 22:15:29	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 22:15:29	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-09-06 22:22:19		epoch has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-09-06 22:32:10	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 22:42:01	lukee	Not sure if anyone is still around?
2020-09-06 22:42:17	lukee	I wrote a short piece on some of our discussion about alt-text
2020-09-06 22:42:20	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/6-Sep-2020_Parsing_preformatted_alt_text.gmi
2020-09-06 22:42:26	lukee	Did I miss anything?
2020-09-06 23:01:39	lukee	Its past midnight so I will post with this URL instead gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/7-Sep-2020_Parsing_preformatted_alt_text.gmi
2020-09-06 23:04:35	@tomasino	very thorough! I like it
2020-09-06 23:04:41	@tomasino	you should share a link on the ML as well
2020-09-06 23:04:44	lukee	thanks
2020-09-06 23:04:59	lukee	It just went live - I'll do an email to the ML
2020-09-06 23:10:59	mhj	Good evening all, well, it's evening here anyway. 7:10PM in the EST
2020-09-06 23:18:46	@tomasino	,time
2020-09-06 23:18:47	tildebot	[Time] Time for tomasino: 2020-09-06 23:18:46 UTC
2020-09-06 23:19:11	lukee	,time
2020-09-06 23:19:11	tildebot	[Time] lukee: Please set location, e.g.: ,config lukee location London, GB
2020-09-06 23:19:31	lukee	,config lukee location London, GB
2020-09-06 23:19:32	tildebot	[Config] Config 'location' set to {'timezone': 'Europe/London', 'lat': 51.5073219, 'lon': -0.1276474, 'name': 'London, England, United Kingdom'}
2020-09-06 23:19:36	lukee	,time
2020-09-06 23:19:36	tildebot	[Time] Time for lukee: 2020-09-07 00:19:36 UTC+1
2020-09-06 23:22:54	mhj	,time
2020-09-06 23:22:54	tildebot	[Time] mhj: Please set location, e.g.: ,config mhj location London, GB
2020-09-06 23:23:22	mhj	,config mhj location Miami, FL
2020-09-06 23:23:23	tildebot	[Config] Config 'location' set to {'timezone': 'America/New_York', 'lat': 25.7741728, 'lon': -80.19362, 'name': 'Miami, Florida, United States of America'}
2020-09-06 23:23:37	mhj	,time
2020-09-06 23:23:38	tildebot	[Time] Time for mhj: 2020-09-06 19:23:37 UTC-4
2020-09-06 23:24:49	lukee	The missive to the ML has been fired off. I hope it won't bring out too many pitchforks!
2020-09-06 23:35:05	@tomasino	woo!
2020-09-06 23:37:58	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 23:43:29	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-06 23:46:21		CoopDot has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-06 23:53:43	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 00:00:06	lukee	ok I'm off to be now o/
2020-09-07 00:00:19	lukee	be -> bed
2020-09-07 00:00:21	@tomasino	ciao!
2020-09-07 00:00:21	companion_cube	tomasino: so why is toki pona cool? :p
2020-09-07 00:00:31		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-07 00:00:56	@tomasino	philosophical choices, minimalism, simplistic and easy to learn even for people not into language learning
2020-09-07 00:01:07	@tomasino	it really took off with the clown community on fedi
2020-09-07 00:01:11	@tomasino	quite random, that, but neat
2020-09-07 00:01:12	companion_cube	hu
2020-09-07 01:39:08	▬▬▶	moody has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 01:40:58		alex11 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-07 01:44:43	moody	evenin'
2020-09-07 01:45:47	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 01:46:03	ℹ 	alex1138 is now known as alex11
2020-09-07 02:14:04	ℹ 	CoopDot is now known as CoopDot_web
2020-09-07 02:15:20	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 02:17:17	CoopDot	Nice. Took me a while, but I got in
2020-09-07 02:17:26	CoopDot	Hello
2020-09-07 02:17:54	CoopDot_web	Don't need this now
2020-09-07 02:18:22		CoopDot_web has quit (quit: sorry for the noice)
2020-09-07 02:41:17		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-07 03:20:19	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 05:35:00	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 05:59:13	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 07:23:06		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-07 07:23:49		flexibeast has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-09-07 07:36:22	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 08:27:46	sandra	Uh I get so overwhelmed with all the gem text language extentions, lukee :/
2020-09-07 08:28:08	sandra	(Re your post your marmaladefoo gemspace.)
2020-09-07 08:29:45	sandra	Ah, now I'm reading bouncepaw's post for context
2020-09-07 08:31:03	sandra	I've been using md2gemini's unicode table output, I think it looks good. Not sure how it sounds for audio browsers; the intent is that you can hear each row read off ltr before moving down to the next row, just as text just with weird punctuation.
2020-09-07 08:32:10	sandra	Org-mode has the feature you're proposing for its code blocks
2020-09-07 08:32:36	sandra	Which was one of the reasons I switched to markdown because I got overwhelmed with the complexity.
2020-09-07 08:33:02	sandra	My gmi files do throw away a lot of semantic markup but that's because gmi is a simpler format by design.
2020-09-07 08:34:17	sandra	As an example, https://idiomdrottning.org/line-moving-semantics compared to gemini://idiomdrottning.org/line-moving-semantics.gmi The former has bold sections and mono space sections. Neither are essential to comprehend the text.
2020-09-07 08:34:40	sandra	(and italic)
2020-09-07 08:35:06	sandra	Lukee isn't even in the room. I'll paste that into a post on gem space
2020-09-07 08:45:11	moody	what is this gem space?
2020-09-07 08:45:38	sandra	My pet name for everything on gemini://
2020-09-07 08:45:45	moody	ah gotcha
2020-09-07 08:45:56	sandra	For me mostly CAPCOM
2020-09-07 08:46:01	sandra	so far.
2020-09-07 08:47:00	sandra	gemini://idiomdrottning.org/re-parsing-preformatted-alt-text.gmi
2020-09-07 08:47:11	login	which gemini client do you use?
2020-09-07 08:47:19	sandra	AV-98
2020-09-07 08:47:32	sandra	Sometimes the qute-Gemini script
2020-09-07 08:47:46	sandra	I haven't got good schema and stuff set up so there's a lot of cutting and pasting back and forth so far
2020-09-07 08:47:51	sandra	But I've only been on Gemini like a week
2020-09-07 08:48:27	login	is it cli?
2020-09-07 08:48:31	sandra	Yeah
2020-09-07 08:48:35	login	ah
2020-09-07 08:48:57	sandra	AV-98 is CLI and qute-gemini is a li'l script that tries to turn gem pages into HTML. It doesn't work great so far
2020-09-07 08:49:42	sandra	AV-98 has overtaken it in my use. I sometimes use AV-98 inside emacs shell-mode
2020-09-07 09:00:13	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 09:09:15		ehmry has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-07 09:49:11	flexibeast	sandra: i've submitted some patches to elpher so that it can display numbered links à la AV-98. :-)
2020-09-07 09:50:30	flexibeast	But i found AV-98 rather neat.
2020-09-07 11:42:40	alex11	does gemini accept any project contributers/volunteers?
2020-09-07 11:50:15	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 11:56:37	flexibeast	alex11: Well, there's the last paragraph of the FAQ: https://proxy.vulpes.one/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/faq.gmi :-)
2020-09-07 12:44:35	kvothe	good mornin'!
2020-09-07 12:58:19	sandra	kvothe: Thanx for hooking me up with some cool peeps on the other internet
2020-09-07 13:05:29	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 13:05:35	lukee	hi everyone
2020-09-07 13:06:41	lukee	sandra; thanks for your reply. The post was initially motivated by a conversation about tables, but I think that is the bit that everyone latched on to.
2020-09-07 13:07:16	lukee	Whereas for me the main element is having an *optional* convention on how that space is generally used
2020-09-07 13:08:15	lukee	you mention you would prefer if people didnt embed ascii art in their gemtext. I dont have a horse in that race, personally, but I think there is an established practice of it
2020-09-07 13:08:56	sandra	For tables I'd like it if each row is just read off one item at a time and if you could skip the table
2020-09-07 13:09:42	sandra	When there is semantic markup you can do to make your data more semantically marked up, I get stressed out if I then don't actually do that
2020-09-07 13:09:58	sandra	I don't want to be a "bad gmi citizen"
2020-09-07 13:10:48	lukee	well the level of semantic markup is very low at the moment, which is a strength in many cases
2020-09-07 13:11:19	sandra	It also feels weird to put in _some_ semantic markup but not _all_ the semantic markup
2020-09-07 13:11:48	sandra	I feel guilty for being such a parade rainer
2020-09-07 13:11:49	lukee	its finding the sweet spot, but it is much further to the left than other markup languages
2020-09-07 13:12:08	@tomasino	opinions and discussion are helpful. rain away
2020-09-07 13:12:18	lukee	to be honest, I think that space will be used for different things
2020-09-07 13:12:29	lukee	but perhaps some convention is useful
2020-09-07 13:12:58	lukee	I dont think this needs to be institutionalised in the standard. More like an optional community practice
2020-09-07 13:13:23	sandra	I missed the 5.4.3 in the spec at https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/specification.html
2020-09-07 13:13:34	sandra	I thought the spec was ^```$
2020-09-07 13:14:05	lukee	no there is a gap where the light can come in
2020-09-07 13:14:31	sandra	The spec is also self-contradicting because the next paragraph says "Any text following the leading "```" of a preformat toggle line which toggles preformatted mode off MUST be ignored by clients."
2020-09-07 13:14:40	sandra	That's a bug obv
2020-09-07 13:14:40	lukee	originally people were thinking of screen readers, and being able to indicate language
2020-09-07 13:14:46	lukee	no its a feature
2020-09-07 13:14:57	@tomasino	that was the old version, sandra. if it's out of sync with the mention of alt text it just needs to be corrected
2020-09-07 13:15:25	@tomasino	^```$ is now ^```[optional alt text]$
2020-09-07 13:15:25	lukee	the latest version of the spec is (as far as I know) here: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/specification.gmi
2020-09-07 13:15:38	sandra	It says the same thing
2020-09-07 13:15:41	@tomasino	yes, not version-wise, i mean intention
2020-09-07 13:15:54	@tomasino	the alt text was added later and maybe not globally reflected
2020-09-07 13:16:29	sandra	Right. What I mean by bug is that the spec says that the alt text, that the immediately preceding text said to put in, MUST be thrown away without looking by all clients.
2020-09-07 13:16:32	lukee	"Any text following the leading "```"... MAY be interpreted by the client
2020-09-07 13:17:01	lukee	well it is true it should not be shown to end users
2020-09-07 13:17:02	@tomasino	the ``` toggling OFF has nothing following it
2020-09-07 13:17:08	lukee	but that does not mean it has no role
2020-09-07 13:17:09	sandra	Oh, OFF!
2020-09-07 13:17:27	⚡	sandra = pebcak as per use
2020-09-07 13:17:45	@tomasino	hehe, no worries. it's entirely possible there's logical inconsistencies in the spec at this point from all the tweaks
2020-09-07 13:17:54	@tomasino	we'll all have to look out for those and correct them if we find them
2020-09-07 13:17:56	sandra	This was a complete false alarm though
2020-09-07 13:18:03	sandra	Misread on my part
2020-09-07 13:18:16	lukee	no worries
2020-09-07 13:18:24	@tomasino	it's all good
2020-09-07 13:19:07	lukee	ok, just a brief visitation from me, I've got to go. o/
2020-09-07 13:19:15		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-07 13:19:39	@tomasino	it would seem logical that the alt text has most value for accessibility, but visual clients may wish to have an option to toggle between alt text and expanded preformatted blocks
2020-09-07 13:19:48	@tomasino	especially on phones it could be nice to save a mess
2020-09-07 13:19:53	sandra	ni'o Re: Duckling: Before Duckling existed, I felt pretty great that everything in gmi-space was good solid simple text. But that's not the case now that there is a https+html→gemini+gmi proxy
2020-09-07 13:20:35	sandra	Especially for Wikipedia I would rather figure out a browser that views, edits and renders the wikitext directly rather than going wikisource→html→gmi
2020-09-07 13:21:09	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 13:21:39	sandra	https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html ← This blog post is why I became interested in Gemini. But with the proxy it's like we're bringing all the problems of HTML and its rendering back in, except that the "difficult thing to implement" is the proxy rather than the browser itself
2020-09-07 13:22:23	sandra	I.o.w. if it were possible to create a good HTML proxy, it would be just as easy (a.k.a. just as difficult) to create a good HTML browser
2020-09-07 13:22:32	sandra	For a simple text like browser
2020-09-07 13:22:51	sandra	eww, lynx and even edbrowse all kind of suck on the current day web
2020-09-07 13:23:06	sandra	Even though I'm willing AF to throw away information to get a simpler reading experience
2020-09-07 13:23:20	felix	Blame web designers.
2020-09-07 13:23:32	@tomasino	just went ard read the blog post
2020-09-07 13:23:37	@tomasino	yes, browsers are horrible
2020-09-07 13:23:42	@tomasino	and no, i don't blame web designers
2020-09-07 13:23:48	felix	I'd be so happy if we settled for a web that worked in Lynx.
2020-09-07 13:24:09	@tomasino	designers don't make the calls to add features to the browser. They exploit what's available
2020-09-07 13:24:28	felix	And what do you call someone who does things because they can?
2020-09-07 13:24:36	felix	Regardless of the harm they cause?
2020-09-07 13:24:47	sandra	So that's my two problems with Duckling. 1. It makes "this is well-designed gemtext" no longer a trustworthy thing to say, which, OK, needed to happen sooner or later, but 2. Is just as possible/impossible as creating a good web browser in the first place, and if it were possible, Gemini wouldn't be needed (for me) because the web wouldn't have the problems described in the article.
2020-09-07 13:25:10	@tomasino	what is duckling?
2020-09-07 13:25:36	sandra	lukee's https+html→gemini+gmi proxy
2020-09-07 13:25:49	felix	For what it's worth, portal.mozz.us works in Lynx.
2020-09-07 13:25:59	sandra	My own web site works in lynx
2020-09-07 13:26:03	@tomasino	browse websites in gemini?
2020-09-07 13:26:09	@tomasino	or vice versa
2020-09-07 13:26:16	sandra	tomasino: the former. Browse websites in gemini
2020-09-07 13:26:58	sandra	Vice versa proxies are awesome♥
2020-09-07 13:26:58	sandra	I mean, the Duckling direction (bringing it into gmi) is more impressive but with the aforementioned caveats
2020-09-07 13:27:32	@tomasino	it adds content available in gemini but at the cost of quality... and none of it is unique to the platform
2020-09-07 13:27:51	@tomasino	i guess it's a neat technical feat
2020-09-07 13:27:58	@tomasino	is it getting much use?
2020-09-07 13:28:03	sandra	That's why I feel bad for the parade raining; that's lukee's baby
2020-09-07 13:28:10	sandra	It was just released over the weekend
2020-09-07 13:28:31	@tomasino	ahh, well, people have different things they like
2020-09-07 13:28:34	sandra	August 31 was the release mail
2020-09-07 13:28:42	sandra	So I guess 1 week ago
2020-09-07 13:28:49	sandra	"If I did they'd have a Samurai"
2020-09-07 13:28:54	@tomasino	maybe it lets him pull in some of his normal web browsing habits and combine them with gemini surfing
2020-09-07 13:29:08	sandra	tomasino: Yes, a lot of good outcomes can happen
2020-09-07 13:29:51	@tomasino	i'm not too concerned about it, personally. Nor am i too concerned about the alt text stuff i try to keep defending. Ultimately what will make or break gemini is original content
2020-09-07 13:30:10	kevinsan	i think there are some web resources that are worth bringing into gemini (e.g. the awesome-gemini list from github, articles on SSL, etc.)
2020-09-07 13:30:25	kvothe	sandra: it was inevitable, there's some cool cats out there :D
2020-09-07 13:30:46	kvothe	Sorry, went to get coffee and all that :D
2020-09-07 13:30:58	kevinsan	so, web->gmi is a handy shortcut for this information
2020-09-07 13:31:10	kevinsan	tomasino, what foam pokemon did you make yesterday?
2020-09-07 13:31:19	@tomasino	my son made about 15
2020-09-07 13:31:24	@tomasino	i was support
2020-09-07 13:31:33	@tomasino	all from the original set
2020-09-07 13:31:35	sandra	kvothe: Yeah, I just have to be patient
2020-09-07 13:31:41	@tomasino	i don't know the names of the later ones
2020-09-07 13:32:17	@tomasino	we need to go get him some brown foam clay so he can make rychu and eevee and a few others
2020-09-07 13:32:23	sandra	tomasino: Keep defending? What's your position on the alt text stuff
2020-09-07 13:32:31	@tomasino	its existence
2020-09-07 13:32:45	sandra	I should put in alt text in there
2020-09-07 13:32:52	@tomasino	i've been fighting for it and defending it from becoming a syntax markup thing from the start
2020-09-07 13:33:11	sandra	I don't know what to put in. I have tables
2020-09-07 13:33:14	sandra	And source code
2020-09-07 13:33:17	sandra	And poems
2020-09-07 13:33:20	@tomasino	just say "table about XXX"
2020-09-07 13:33:30	@tomasino	"poem"
2020-09-07 13:33:36	@tomasino	whatever
2020-09-07 13:33:38	sandra	Except that the poems are not using the ``` syntax RN, I forgot. They're just shorter lines
2020-09-07 13:33:47	@tomasino	that works too
2020-09-07 13:34:14	@tomasino	if you imagine a screen reader hitting the preformatted block and pausing it will say: 'preformatted: [alt text]'
2020-09-07 13:34:21	sandra	I'd have to patch md2gemini :/
2020-09-07 13:34:26	@tomasino	then the reader can choose to skip it or continue having it read
2020-09-07 13:34:35	@tomasino	if you say "ascii art of a waffle" they can skip
2020-09-07 13:34:45	@tomasino	if you say: "poem about the elm trees"
2020-09-07 13:34:48	@tomasino	they may continue 
2020-09-07 13:35:01	@tomasino	ahh, you're auto-generating your gemtext
2020-09-07 13:35:05	@tomasino	more effort then, yeah
2020-09-07 13:35:39	@tomasino	whatever is comfortable for you
2020-09-07 13:35:56	@tomasino	it shouldn't become burdensome
2020-09-07 13:36:16	sandra	So let me get this straight, I write ```Table or ```Source Code
2020-09-07 13:36:18	sandra	For the opener
2020-09-07 13:36:21	sandra	And nothing on the closer
2020-09-07 13:36:23	@tomasino	yep
2020-09-07 13:36:45	@tomasino	``` you can have an optional space in there if you like
2020-09-07 13:37:02	kvothe	very much like the {{{ in md
2020-09-07 13:37:08	@tomasino	```and there's currently no syntax to follow for what you can have as this alt text. it's like a caption
2020-09-07 13:38:30	sandra	Right, I saw lukee's proposal
2020-09-07 13:38:38	sandra	I didn't know about the {{{ in md
2020-09-07 13:38:44	sandra	I'm patching md2gemini rn
2020-09-07 13:38:46	@tomasino	i've never used {{{ in md
2020-09-07 13:38:52	@tomasino	i do use ``` blocks though
2020-09-07 13:39:42	felix	I use indented blocks for source code in Markdown.
2020-09-07 13:39:51	kvothe	oh, I'm sorry, that's vimwiki syntax
2020-09-07 13:39:55	kvothe	I get that confused sometimes
2020-09-07 13:39:56	sandra	Oh, it already does use a "code block info"
2020-09-07 13:39:58	felix	Which proved to be a problem when I started with gemtext.
2020-09-07 13:39:59	sandra	I have to go read common mark
2020-09-07 13:40:24	kvothe	you do {{{python and it syntax highlights the pre block as python
2020-09-07 13:40:55	felix	Right, OddMuse uses triple curly braces.
2020-09-07 13:41:35	sandra	You write ```ruby
2020-09-07 13:41:44	kvothe	sandra: on an entirely tangential note, C. and I had a really nice convo about how you might moderate a decentralized communication network in the car on the way to her aunt's yesterday
2020-09-07 13:41:48	sandra	{{{ is not common mark. That might be OddMuse
2020-09-07 13:42:05	sandra	Is C one of your wives?
2020-09-07 13:42:18	sandra	Uh if that's not an inappropriate q♥
2020-09-07 13:42:18	kvothe	my wife, yes :D
2020-09-07 13:42:59	kvothe	lol, we're not *currently* dating other folks right now and that's entirely OK to ask
2020-09-07 13:43:59	kvothe	anyway, @hafnia has been the moderator of several large FB groups
2020-09-07 13:44:32	kvothe	C. has participated in several and we talked about how that worked
2020-09-07 13:44:43	felix	Mastodon mods might have insights.
2020-09-07 13:45:39	kvothe	so I've worked on Tor in a past life, and the thing that I'm really wrestling with is "how do you contend with darkweb stuff while not offering an easy mechanism of harassment"
2020-09-07 13:45:57	sandra	Md2gemini now patched & the patch sent to the guy
2020-09-07 13:46:01	kvothe	felix: that's a good point
2020-09-07 13:46:23	@tomasino	i really like participating in tor as a tor hidden service
2020-09-07 13:46:24	sandra	kvothe: Did you see the "wishlist" post in the thread?
2020-09-07 13:46:36	@tomasino	but i think i'm done allowing for anon activity through my stuff
2020-09-07 13:47:05	sandra	w/ kensanata
2020-09-07 13:47:22	kvothe	I have not, I'll poke in
2020-09-07 13:47:54	kvothe	tomasino: yes, tor gets very bad very fast
2020-09-07 13:48:31	kvothe	oh holy crap, I haven't touched Mastodon yet -- I didn't realize so many people would poke in on that thread
2020-09-07 13:48:41	sandra	Sorry about that
2020-09-07 13:48:47	kvothe	no, it's fine ha
2020-09-07 13:48:49	sandra	I can be a bit of a keyboard firehose
2020-09-07 13:49:32	kvothe	same
2020-09-07 13:50:12	@tomasino	reminds me of the firehose scene in UHF
2020-09-07 13:52:54	sandra	Quick Python Q: quickest One True Way to change zero-to-infinite \n at the end of a string to one \n?
2020-09-07 13:53:02	sandra	Seems like most of my strings here have two \n where I need one
2020-09-07 13:53:22	djph	dunno, I just used sed
2020-09-07 13:53:54	sandra	♥♥♥sed♥♥♥ > 💔💔💔python💔💔💔
2020-09-07 13:55:12	djph	boxboxbox sed box[...]
2020-09-07 13:55:21	kvothe	sandra: I think I grok what you're saying regarding rooms. in theory, you could kind of blend the wholly distributed and decentralized models with some sort of topical discovery
2020-09-07 13:55:51	sandra	(To answer my Python Q from earlier, it's rstrip())
2020-09-07 13:59:55	sandra	tomasino: Now alt text added to all my stuff on gemspace
2020-09-07 14:01:43	sandra	I can see how 💔 would be a box on many computers and I try to not use it as much, but if ♥ is a box then I don't know what to tell you
2020-09-07 14:01:50	sandra	Get unicode
2020-09-07 14:01:55	@tomasino	yay alt text
2020-09-07 14:02:00	easeout	the latter isn't even unicode, right, it's ascii
2020-09-07 14:02:16	sandra	easeout: It's utf-8
2020-09-07 14:02:18	easeout	or, wait. is ascii the first 7 bits or first 8 bits
2020-09-07 14:02:23	sandra	ASCII is the first 7 bits only
2020-09-07 14:02:23	kvothe	7
2020-09-07 14:02:30	easeout	word
2020-09-07 14:02:40	@tomasino	<♥> 9829, Hex 2665, Octal 23145
2020-09-07 14:02:41	kvothe	utf-8 is such a neat hack, btw
2020-09-07 14:02:44	@tomasino	according to vim
2020-09-07 14:02:54	sandra	Yeees one of Ken Thompsons best inventions, kvothe
2020-09-07 14:03:04	sandra	Unlike iso-8859-1 which was a never-ending horror-show
2020-09-07 14:03:15	kvothe	man, I'm gonna have to put together a whole-ass gemini post about decentralized/distributed social networking
2020-09-07 14:03:26	easeout	i'm so glad we only have to think about unicode anymore and not all encodings ever
2020-09-07 14:03:31	kvothe	lol, or UCS-2 *shudders*
2020-09-07 14:03:32	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 14:03:46	sandra	There is plenty of iso-8859-1 text that still walks these haunted halls over here :(
2020-09-07 14:04:05	djph	kvothe: that's an easy one.  "Social Networking: Don't"
2020-09-07 14:04:20	easeout	kvothe, i've liked your recent posts
2020-09-07 14:04:29	⚡	tomasino networks up all of kvothe's socials
2020-09-07 14:04:32	kvothe	easeout: thank you!
2020-09-07 14:04:44	kvothe	so, like, in some sense IRC is a social network
2020-09-07 14:05:03	kvothe	I'm using it as shorthand for "communication protocol for humans"
2020-09-07 14:05:11	felix	Yes, it is.
2020-09-07 14:05:20	sandra	I've been off social media including IRC and that was the first one I got on when I got on social media a month or so back
2020-09-07 14:05:26	easeout	good choice
2020-09-07 14:05:37	felix	You can friend people on IRC for example. ;)
2020-09-07 14:06:02	@tomasino	hrm, i guess a counterpoint would be that the network effect isn't driven by the individual social connections
2020-09-07 14:06:29	@tomasino	it's a network where we are social, but our connection to one another don't create that infrastructure or power its distribution
2020-09-07 14:06:36	sandra	Channels = hashtags
2020-09-07 14:06:48	sandra	I think hashtags literally are IRC-inspired
2020-09-07 14:06:56	sandra	Some guy on Twitter invented them for that purp
2020-09-07 14:07:00	sandra	Some normal user
2020-09-07 14:07:05	@tomasino	yeah, i seem to remember the same
2020-09-07 14:07:13	sandra	Easily searchable strings
2020-09-07 14:07:14	kvothe	Alex Schroeder had a really good point about the G+ circles idea
2020-09-07 14:07:58	sandra	I thought I answered those points, IDK
2020-09-07 14:08:06	felix	For the brief while I spent on G+ early on, I was *very* uncomfortable.
2020-09-07 14:08:23	felix	Because Google got to know exactly how I divide people into circles.
2020-09-07 14:08:36	felix	They learned *more* about me that way, not less.
2020-09-07 14:08:37	sandra	My Fedi instance is the one part of my website that breaks down in lynx. I shoulda istalled brutaldon day one. I wanna make a gmi frontend
2020-09-07 14:08:56	felix	Now I just, wait for it, use different social networks altogether.
2020-09-07 14:09:32	kvothe	so, I *really* like sandra's idea of going for "cozy" rather than going for huge
2020-09-07 14:09:46	felix	Me too.
2020-09-07 14:10:19	@tomasino	is there a write up you guys are referring to?
2020-09-07 14:10:22	felix	No crowds, no pressure to post.
2020-09-07 14:10:23	@tomasino	i feel like i missed something
2020-09-07 14:10:35	@tomasino	was this a gemlog?
2020-09-07 14:10:44	sandra	It started as a gemlog of kvothes
2020-09-07 14:10:48	sandra	But continued on the other internet
2020-09-07 14:10:56	kvothe	tomasino: it's a giant thread on Mastodon, I'll link https://mastodon.sdf.org/@kvothe/104818596837821575
2020-09-07 14:11:19	kvothe	and also IRC :^)
2020-09-07 14:11:26	sandra	That's not wholly original, that's something I yanked from someone writing about zoomers. That while the millenials were trying to build audiences online, zoomers just wanted to chill out and talk to their friends online. And as a xennial or whatever it's called (born 80) that appeals AF to me! That's the internet I remember with mailing-lists and IRC.
2020-09-07 14:11:31	sandra	The cozy
2020-09-07 14:11:43	sandra	The word "cozy" was my word for it
2020-09-07 14:11:50	sandra	So I guess I did contribute a little
2020-09-07 14:12:34	sandra	I guess it's my cheap-ass rebranding of kensanata's "smolnet"
2020-09-07 14:12:44	felix	Funny, today we were just discussing how Mastodon copies much more of Twitter's bad design than intended.
2020-09-07 14:12:53	@tomasino	oooh, a masto thing
2020-09-07 14:13:07	felix	Over on twtxt.net, and on GitHub.
2020-09-07 14:13:22	kvothe	so the thing is, I think there's a HUGE number of folks that want something "cozy"
2020-09-07 14:13:41	@tomasino	born 80 represent!
2020-09-07 14:14:02	kvothe	we all talk about it in different ways, there's no consensus, but gemini is one example
2020-09-07 14:14:10	felix	Yeah!
2020-09-07 14:14:32	felix	flounder.online makes it explicit, but others share the goal.
2020-09-07 14:15:05	kvothe	YES, EXACTLY
2020-09-07 14:15:08	kvothe	err
2020-09-07 14:15:11	kvothe	sorry, caps lock
2020-09-07 14:15:26	sandra	My li'l agesist rant is that Gen Xers, Boomers & Silents they are just happy & impressed to be allowed to even use the Internet in the first place, and Millenials, they were swimming in it so they didn't see anything wrong with Insta, Facebook, 4chan etc. But we who were born in between, Xennials or w/e, we grew up with modems and pre-HTML 3.2 Netscape and Lynx-except-not-ironically and IRC and usenet and mailing li
2020-09-07 14:15:26	sandra	sts, the Eternal September era was our teen years.
2020-09-07 14:16:49	kvothe	I'm just a little younger, barely in the cusp of Millenial
2020-09-07 14:17:00	sandra	TBH I think that's not necessarily tied to a particular year of birth as much as it is a particular, uh, era of when you first went online
2020-09-07 14:17:36	felix	Exactly! I was born in '77, but only got online in '99.
2020-09-07 14:17:54	felix	So I caught the tail end of Geocities and Usenet.
2020-09-07 14:17:58	kvothe	sandra: that's a good point. I missed usenet, but remember Geocities
2020-09-07 14:18:02	sandra	I went online mid teens, like 95
2020-09-07 14:18:19	sandra	Angelfire, Geocities era yes
2020-09-07 14:19:04	sandra	I guess not mid teens because mid teens would be (19-13)2+13 which is, uh… 16. I meant 15
2020-09-07 14:19:07	sandra	Mid decade
2020-09-07 14:19:19	sandra	Math is hard :(
2020-09-07 14:19:50	kvothe	brb, moar coffee, also perhaps cereal
2020-09-07 14:20:30	sandra	I remember when tokipona first came out, it was such a rival to lojban which I was speaking
2020-09-07 14:21:15	@tomasino	yay toki pona
2020-09-07 14:25:07	felix	I find it endlessly ironic how after becoming a pro web developer...
2020-09-07 14:25:32	felix	...After spending a few years in a WordPress shop...
2020-09-07 14:25:49	felix	...I went right back to making websites like my first one in 1999.
2020-09-07 14:26:31	felix	And frankly it's working out better than wikis ever did.
2020-09-07 14:26:37	@tomasino	i'm still making websites professionally. Some are quite fancy. The site which gives me the most joy is https://tomasino.org
2020-09-07 14:26:43	felix	I was an enthusiast of wikis, too, for most of this time.
2020-09-07 14:27:12	felix	tomasino: :)
2020-09-07 14:28:00	sandra	tomasino: Nice use of microformats
2020-09-07 14:28:07	@tomasino	thanks
2020-09-07 14:28:13	@tomasino	it looks nice in lynx too
2020-09-07 14:30:09	autumnova	tomasino: I can confirm, it does.
2020-09-07 14:30:41	sandra	I mean no site looks good in my lynx default settings, it's all black and glowy yellow and cyan
2020-09-07 14:31:03	autumnova	sandra: Yellow and Cyan? Doesn't tha hurt?
2020-09-07 14:32:03	felix	It looks good with CSS on, too. That's rare nowadays.
2020-09-07 14:33:28	sandra	https://ellen.idiomdrottning.org/tomasino-ss.png ← this is how it looks. White on black and blue and green and yellow and purple
2020-09-07 14:33:40	kvothe	coffee: procured
2020-09-07 14:33:50	felix	\o/
2020-09-07 14:33:51	sandra	My own site has the same look so that's not a slag on tomasino, it's more of a slag on lynx' defaults
2020-09-07 14:34:57	felix	I like them.
2020-09-07 14:35:25	autumnova	sandra: I can't handle those colors. I need dark theme everywhere and colors that don't puncture my eyes.
2020-09-07 14:35:38	⚡	autumnova has sensitive eyes
2020-09-07 14:35:51	sandra	I have impaired vision so when a website comes up with dark theme I can't read it very easily
2020-09-07 14:35:56	⚡	sandra = old
2020-09-07 14:36:05	autumnova	I have the opposite problem
2020-09-07 14:36:12	⚡	autumnova also not young anymore
2020-09-07 14:36:27	easeout	i knew some lojban and am reading about toki pona now. thanks for bringing it up
2020-09-07 14:36:58	@tomasino	alias lynx='lynx -display_charset=utf8 --lss=/dev/null'
2020-09-07 14:37:05	@tomasino	that helps me out quite a bit
2020-09-07 14:37:07	sandra	To me that's one of the garbage points about the web, that some sites are bright black-on-white and some are super-low-contrast grey-on-grey instead of those settings being client side
2020-09-07 14:37:38	sandra	That's one of the reasons I'm stoked about gmi. The lack of CSS. As much as I love CSS as a language
2020-09-07 14:38:03	easeout	yee
2020-09-07 14:38:08	autumnova	I feel you. On my "normal" browser I have a custom CSS file loaded for everything in case I need to go there.
2020-09-07 14:38:32	sandra	I wish qutebrowser supported per-site user styles
2020-09-07 14:39:27	sandra	autumnova: I also have my screen's backlight off and brightness cranked down and (not now because it's day) redshift cranked up
2020-09-07 14:39:42	autumnova	I never used redhsift so far.
2020-09-07 14:39:58	autumnova	sandra: I hope you don't mind me requesting the follow @ fedi.
2020-09-07 14:41:23	sandra	autumnova: I'm happy for everyone who wants to follow to follow
2020-09-07 14:41:26	sandra	♥
2020-09-07 14:42:34	sandra	autumnova: Are you on CAPCOM?
2020-09-07 14:43:04	autumnova	I think so?
2020-09-07 14:43:17	sandra	What's a request follow? It should auto approve right?
2020-09-07 14:43:43	sandra	The reply, repeat, favorite buttons on your site don't work for me
2020-09-07 14:43:53	⚡	sandra = new to Fedi
2020-09-07 14:43:57	autumnova	Huh? Really?
2020-09-07 14:43:58	mhj	Heyo gemini peeps. Thanks to everyone's advice, I got bombadillo working on my NixOS install by compiling it directly~
2020-09-07 14:44:07	felix	Not always. Even if your account isn't locked, sometimes follows go into a queue.
2020-09-07 14:44:11	kvothe	I've been meaning to try out Kristall as a gemini client. IIRC, there was a client that did this near thing with generated art as the background
2020-09-07 14:44:19	kvothe	s/near/neat
2020-09-07 14:44:27	felix	mhj: Woo!
2020-09-07 14:44:41	kvothe	nice, mhj!
2020-09-07 14:45:16	mhj	Now to spruce my Gemini server and join the rest of you awesome folks~
2020-09-07 14:45:27	mhj	:D
2020-09-07 14:45:41	sandra	I was gonna reply to the micro / neovim thing
2020-09-07 14:46:59	@tomasino	castor, maybe kvothe 
2020-09-07 14:47:44	felix	Not Geminaut? It has that thing where it gives visual cues as to where you are online.
2020-09-07 14:49:41	kvothe	tomasino: ty!
2020-09-07 14:50:37	autumnova	sandra: What client are you using? There doesn't seem to be an issue here.
2020-09-07 14:51:47	sandra	I just opened https://pleroma.tilde.zone/notice/9yoyLV1SvfAUJRkaP2 in a web browser
2020-09-07 14:52:05	sandra	↑ was @ autumnova
2020-09-07 14:53:13	kvothe	I want to like rust, but good grief cargo pulls in the kitchen sink when you build something
2020-09-07 14:54:02	admicos	just you wait until two dependencies have different versions of the same library
2020-09-07 14:54:02	felix	Don't they all.
2020-09-07 14:54:06	autumnova	sandra: If you do it in your browser from my instance, it will not work like you intend to do it.
2020-09-07 14:54:08	sandra	kvothe: Using libraries rather than reinventing the wheel can be good practice. Unless it's goes to ridiculous lengths
2020-09-07 14:54:36	sandra	autumnova: I haven't encountered this behavior on any other instance. What's any other way to do it?
2020-09-07 14:54:38	kvothe	sandra: for sure, I've been a Perl programmer for some time and that's CPAN, too
2020-09-07 14:54:53	sandra	kvothe: But you saw my curling into bash post on gem space right?
2020-09-07 14:54:54	felix	The Ruby gem system has the same problem.
2020-09-07 14:55:11	autumnova	sandra: The easiest way would be to do it from your instance.
2020-09-07 14:55:12	felix	You want to install one little utility, and it pulls in dozens of megabytes of deps.
2020-09-07 14:55:24	admicos	ain't anyone going to mention npm?
2020-09-07 14:55:25	felix	And one of them is native, so it has to be built.
2020-09-07 14:55:37	felix	And you have to guess what dev package you're missing.
2020-09-07 14:55:39	kvothe	sandra: I haven't, I'll look
2020-09-07 14:55:52	mhj	Heyo, is anyone here on the Gemini mailing list DeltaChat?
2020-09-07 14:55:53	felix	admicos: That's the punchline.
2020-09-07 14:56:46	kvothe	sandra: yes, agreed re: curl | bash
2020-09-07 14:57:03	sandra	autumnova: How can I even access your older posts from my instance? If I were to follow you, only your posts from now on would show up as far as I know
2020-09-07 14:57:16	mhj	Just wanted to see if I could be invited back into the group
2020-09-07 14:57:41	mhj	Since I had wiped the computer that was on it lol
2020-09-07 14:57:44	sandra	I'm on the orbitalfox Gemini mailinglist but I'm just a member
2020-09-07 14:57:50	sandra	Not on DeltaChat
2020-09-07 14:57:55	mhj	Ahhh
2020-09-07 14:57:56	felix	sandra: click on her name in the web UI, it should bring up the profile except on your dashboard.
2020-09-07 14:58:08	felix	Like any timeline.
2020-09-07 14:58:27	autumnova	sandra: There's just 2 posts from me so far, so you don't miss out. I think you would be able to see my older posts in my profile from your instance.
2020-09-07 14:58:52	felix	Well, it doesn't always work.
2020-09-07 15:01:48	sandra	When I bring up people's profiles on my instance's web UI, all the posts that are on there are their posts from after I started following them
2020-09-07 15:02:06	sandra	That's why I've been going over to the other people's instances to check out their older posts
2020-09-07 15:06:26	sandra	Even now after following, it says "0 statuses". Which is good in a way because I wouldn't want a thousand years of backlog to be pulled in generally (even if in this example there's only a handful of posts).
2020-09-07 15:06:28	autumnova	sandra: I see, in my case it's just not necessary :D
2020-09-07 15:07:56	sandra	You'll have to miss out on my rant vs neovim
2020-09-07 15:08:01	admicos	sandra: that also happens on (at least my) mastodon instances too. it only shows me the posts my instance received due to getting boosted by someone i follow
2020-09-07 15:08:09	admicos	with the exception of pinned posts iirc
2020-09-07 15:08:18	mhj	Oh it's awesome that you some of folks are on the fediverse.
2020-09-07 15:08:53	sandra	I got on Fedi and Gemini at the same time :D
2020-09-07 15:09:11	mhj	If you wanna add me, right now my currently most used instance is fuuma@hackers.town
2020-09-07 15:10:32	mhj	That's cool sandra. Glad you're liking both!
2020-09-07 15:13:13	sandra	I ended up using this IRC channel more than either :D
2020-09-07 15:13:20	⚡	sandra = reckless topic hi-jacker
2020-09-07 15:14:22	mhj	lol, well, that's IRC for ya
2020-09-07 15:14:24	sandra	And I reconnected with an old high-school friend today, also on IRC; he just queried me out of the blue on freenode (and confirmed via email that it actually was him)
2020-09-07 15:15:16	mhj	Woah, that's amazing. Hard to believe you could find anyone freenode since it's such a huge network
2020-09-07 15:15:48	sandra	You just type /query their nick. I have my last name as nick on there, snan
2020-09-07 15:16:38	mhj	I see!
2020-09-07 15:17:21	mhj	Also thanks for the suggestion for gem blogs that you sent my way
2020-09-07 15:17:24	sandra	np♥
2020-09-07 15:17:39	sandra	I don't use gopher
2020-09-07 15:18:20	mhj	I use both, but I am liking how gemini is going~
2020-09-07 15:19:51	mhj	I'll check out those gem blogs now~
2020-09-07 15:22:48	mhj	OK, maybe I won't lol. I have no idea what CAPCOM's or Spacewalk's gemini address is...
2020-09-07 15:23:45	sandra	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/
2020-09-07 15:24:04	sandra	gemini://rawtext.club:1965/~sloum/spacewalk.gmi
2020-09-07 15:24:50	felix	gemini.circumlunar.space has links to the popular aggregators, search engines, portals and so on.
2020-09-07 15:25:05	sandra	Or you can search for things on GUS: gemini://gus.guru/
2020-09-07 15:25:32	mhj	Thanks!
2020-09-07 15:28:32		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-07 15:36:11	mhj	Well now I'm exploring all the gem blogs and loving it! Thanks again sandra!
2020-09-07 15:36:42	mhj	And felix too, y'all have been <3
2020-09-07 15:36:56	felix	You're too kind.
2020-09-07 15:37:56	sandra	Welcome to Gemini!
2020-09-07 15:38:16	sandra	I've just been here a week, but I backdated my posts hahaha
2020-09-07 15:38:19	sandra	Instant credibility
2020-09-07 15:39:00	felix	Make that three weeks for me.
2020-09-07 15:39:11	felix	But I'm not bringing over my old blog posts.
2020-09-07 15:42:12	easeout	i'll second this gemini://idiomdrottning.org:1965/re-parsing-preformatted-alt-text.gmi
2020-09-07 15:42:16	mhj	lol. I gotta get a gemblog up and running too. Compared to the rest of the gemverse, I don't have as good programming skills. I know c++ and python, but I'd like to learn more lisp and rust. I'm hoping though I can write good documentation once I get my technical writing cert and/or english major degree.
2020-09-07 15:43:52	easeout	i believe you can write good documentation just by working from good examples
2020-09-07 15:44:19	easeout	or by putting yourself in the reader's shoes constantly
2020-09-07 15:44:45	felix	I found the same skills to be useful in writing fiction and non-fiction.
2020-09-07 15:45:24	felix	And I don't mean in the way American journalists always start their stories with an ordinary person doing ordinary things when... once upon a time...
2020-09-07 15:46:13	felix	But there *is* a narrative involved either way.
2020-09-07 15:46:20	easeout	lol american journalists start their stories with a clickbait headline
2020-09-07 15:46:36	felix	Well, the next thing after that. ;)
2020-09-07 15:46:39	easeout	:D
2020-09-07 15:47:20	easeout	you're right that there are parallels though. when i read journalistic writing i don't want them to bury the lede, just like i want a piece of software's git readme to tell me what it does, clearly, first thing
2020-09-07 15:48:11	sandra	To me that's a difference from fiction (where I don't mind a shaggy dog story), not a similarity
2020-09-07 15:48:17	felix	But yeah, in both cases you want to imagine yourself right there.
2020-09-07 15:48:48	easeout	or like, journalism will usually include context for readers that need it. and in a lot of git repos you arrive right out of a google search or a forum link and you need that orientation
2020-09-07 15:49:15	felix	Especially with all the software that doesn't have a proper homepage anymore.
2020-09-07 15:49:18	sandra	With RPG modules the worst ones to actually run are the ones that are the most interesting and novel-like to read. When I'm running them I want "'Foo Barson is the killer' as the first sentence. A detective novel for reading purps, I'd want the opposite
2020-09-07 15:49:51	sandra	Also I'm kinda happy that README.md is the new homepage (as much as I hate github specificially)
2020-09-07 15:50:09	easeout	same re: readmes
2020-09-07 15:50:13	easeout	there are very good ones
2020-09-07 15:50:19	sandra	Speaking of D&D, it's boatmode time. TTYL darlings
2020-09-07 15:50:30	felix	Have fun!
2020-09-07 15:50:35	sandra	Thank you felix♥
2020-09-07 15:50:37	easeout	🕊
2020-09-07 15:52:58	felix	mhj: anyway, some of the best content I did bring over is literary.
2020-09-07 15:55:57	mhj	Oh nice
2020-09-07 15:56:07	mhj	BRB, gonna eat
2020-09-07 15:57:34	@tomasino	Or readme.txt! https://github.com/jamestomasino
2020-09-07 15:57:42	xfnw	tomasino.txt
2020-09-07 15:58:09	xfnw	is there a tomasino protocol?
2020-09-07 15:58:20	@tomasino	Yep! Plain text
2020-09-07 16:01:09	felix	Good one! I wrote about many things as a manual page, but myself?
2020-09-07 16:01:14	felix	Never thought of that.
2020-09-07 16:12:42	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 16:13:07		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-07 16:16:03	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-07 16:17:17		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-07 16:27:40	ℹ 	jan is now known as the_real_jan
2020-09-07 16:27:48	ℹ 	the_real_jan is now known as jan
2020-09-07 16:37:01	mhj	OK, got the gemini server running again. The SSL cert expired, so yeah. Now it's running again tho :D
2020-09-07 16:37:17	mhj	So I am happy ``
2020-09-07 16:39:17	idf	guys i have a question, how do you handle ssl client certificates in your servers. Since i want to allow self-signed client certificates and i have a bunch of solutions but i keep reading on the internet that they are unsafe...
2020-09-07 16:39:56	idf	im currently considering overriding the verification callback then just do my own verification processes later
2020-09-07 16:41:45	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 16:42:50	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-07 16:43:47	⚡	lukee waves to felix
2020-09-07 16:44:12	kevinsan	hi idf, it's impractical to do anything other than what you have decided on. verifying requires signing by a CA.
2020-09-07 16:45:18	login	tilde CA
2020-09-07 16:45:22	login	do it
2020-09-07 16:45:35	kevinsan	hi lukee (and felix!). and everyone!
2020-09-07 16:45:46	felix	Hello!
2020-09-07 16:45:48	lukee	hi
2020-09-07 16:46:29	makeworld	idf: Are you talking about Gemini?
2020-09-07 16:46:38	makeworld	Just generate your own self-signed cert
2020-09-07 16:46:41	kevinsan	login, I was thinking about something like that. it's early in evolution of gemini, and some trusted CAs might be possible since we control the clients and servers
2020-09-07 16:46:59	makeworld	They are only "unsafe" on the Web because they're hard to verify. Gemini is designed to work with self-signed certs
2020-09-07 16:47:17	makeworld	kevinsan: Don't centralize Gemini plz
2020-09-07 16:47:19	makeworld	Lol
2020-09-07 16:47:35	makeworld	It was kinda designed explicitly to avoid trusted CAs
2020-09-07 16:47:43	⚡	lukee updates blog post so people don't think he wants to propose a new table format
2020-09-07 16:48:08	kevinsan	lol lukee, i get that it was just an example.
2020-09-07 16:48:15	kevinsan	makeworld, ok, i won't - promise!
2020-09-07 16:49:02	makeworld	lukee: Your suggestion is interesting, I don't know what to make of it. Seems very extensible, but the table stuff is useful
2020-09-07 16:49:17	kevinsan	lukee, but the general principle kind of holds that if meta-data implies layout or formatting, there's a risk that it gets used at the expense of 'default' readability
2020-09-07 16:49:19	swift	does anyone else have any issues with astrobotany in bombadillo? I always get "invalid redirect" when watering
2020-09-07 16:49:59	lukee	there is a fundamental tension as the protocol becomes more successful
2020-09-07 16:50:01	makeworld	swift: Bombadillo has removed support for client certs, I wouldn't use it for Astrobotany. It may still work if you're on an old version but support was never that good
2020-09-07 16:50:13	makeworld	I would recommend using Kristall instead
2020-09-07 16:50:15	lukee	people will want to spend less time on the web, and more time in gemini
2020-09-07 16:51:00	lukee	my preference is that the alt text is primarily a user friendly label
2020-09-07 16:51:02	swift	I've had some issues building Kristall, but maybe I'll try again
2020-09-07 16:51:09	swift	might be because i'm on macOS though
2020-09-07 16:51:24	swift	and I also don't know what I'm doing w/ Qt
2020-09-07 16:51:27	lukee	but some hinting could *assist* with rendering, but not be necessary
2020-09-07 16:53:08	felix	Until clients do anything at all with alt text, it's all talk.
2020-09-07 16:54:03	lukee	yes
2020-09-07 16:54:28	login	decentralised signature chain
2020-09-07 16:54:29	lukee	there's no killer app for it yet
2020-09-07 16:54:45	login	like a web of trust
2020-09-07 16:55:07	kevinsan	felix, still, it does seem to be useful bit of the protocol to throw ideas around on
2020-09-07 16:55:21	felix	Of course. Always.
2020-09-07 16:56:17	lukee	its like proposing a syntax for feed format using gemtext - is it just a bit of fun, or is there real value?
2020-09-07 16:57:10	kevinsan	lukee, it's *all* fun, but there's value in fun.
2020-09-07 16:57:32	makeworld	swift: macOS build instructions have been updated recently, check it out!
2020-09-07 16:57:34	kevinsan	on the subject of feeds, I realise that the reason I haven't done my own is because I 'cannae be arsed' with an XML formt
2020-09-07 16:57:35	felix	It's more in how it sounds TBH. Just a feeling.
2020-09-07 16:57:37	lukee	On the feed question, I do in fact generate my Atom from gemtext
2020-09-07 16:57:38	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/2-Jul-2020_GMI_based_feed_generator.gmi
2020-09-07 16:58:06	swift	kevinsan: all right, will do!
2020-09-07 16:58:08	lukee	from my point of view, one less thing to worry about
2020-09-07 16:58:28	lukee	but there is a syntax choice in titling the links
2020-09-07 16:59:47	kevinsan	ok, lukee your link is useful to me. amazingly, my kids are pestering me for lettuce (??!) gtg...
2020-09-07 17:00:09	felix	That ties into the issue of machine-readable metadata in gemtext.
2020-09-07 17:01:33	lukee	I like the idea of absolute minimal syntax, that is human friendly first, but also machine readable
2020-09-07 17:02:01	felix	Of course! We'd be foolish to break what we've built, and so soon.
2020-09-07 17:02:33	felix	But for example a *lot* of tools use the convention of a line like:
2020-09-07 17:02:40	lukee	it leans on the question: which comes first, the users or the machines?
2020-09-07 17:02:49	felix	Tags: foo, bar, blah blah
2020-09-07 17:03:54	felix	Users, of course, but arguably machines need a little help serving users.
2020-09-07 17:04:42	lukee	just a few markers here, and a few delimiters and whitespace there...
2020-09-07 17:05:12	felix	Humans, too. Want your device easy to repair? Better accept a big lid with big screws on it.
2020-09-07 17:05:41	lukee	but mostly I'm coming to the view that the main project of Gemini is to cultivate a "new collective taste"
2020-09-07 17:05:49	felix	:D
2020-09-07 17:09:44	lukee	hardware maintenance and repair - that's a whole sorry story
2020-09-07 17:12:36	felix	It's the same with software though.
2020-09-07 17:12:51	felix	People keep saying the programmer's convenience doesn't matter.
2020-09-07 17:13:22	felix	But, uh, guess who writes that software you want fast and bug-free.
2020-09-07 17:13:32	lukee	the main challenge is the barriers to entry in writing software and deciding to get involved
2020-09-07 17:14:17	lukee	how many people feel inclined to say "do you know what, I shall dip my toe into learning a new programming language, so I can fix that bit of software that is bugging me"
2020-09-07 17:14:52	lukee	instead we gave them red notifications and likes
2020-09-07 17:14:59	lukee	and App stores
2020-09-07 17:16:01	lukee	I feel comforted by the relative simplicity of Gemini in this regard - people are getting involved and trying things out
2020-09-07 17:16:21	felix	Yeah. Gemini is bubbling these days.
2020-09-07 17:16:55	felix	You can just... up and write. HTML at its most informal doesn't come close.
2020-09-07 17:18:15	lukee	yes, I think it hit a very nice sweet spot for developers, as it builds on long established open networking standards, and for authors in that the text format is just... nice
2020-09-07 17:23:02	swift	ok sweet, got Kristall up and running on macOS in no time
2020-09-07 17:23:18	swift	kevinsan: ^
2020-09-07 17:29:28	felix	Congrats!
2020-09-07 17:40:02	idf	kevinsan: alright cool thanks
2020-09-07 17:41:22	mhj	Gonna write something up about my NixOS experiences, and share my configuration file for it on my gemini. Then I'm also going to detail how I got bombadillo to work on NixOS, and why I probably did a chroot'd Void Linux wrong and it being unneeded(for me) lol
2020-09-07 17:56:08	kevinsan	swift: it was makeworld's suggestion (though well done - if you had any issues building, a few paragraphs write-up might help others)
2020-09-07 17:58:58	swift	ah gotcha, but no the instructions worked flawlessly!
2020-09-07 18:19:36	@tomasino	i think easeout just summed up my view better than i've been able to
2020-09-07 18:19:59	easeout	that's a nice compliment, thank you
2020-09-07 18:20:32	@tomasino	:)
2020-09-07 18:26:21		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-07 18:32:18	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 18:35:26		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-09-07 18:38:46	admicos	I just shot a new idea into the mailing list under the pre-formatted alt text discussion. Might be interesting to you all
2020-09-07 18:39:17	admicos	I *just* came up with it so it might have very glaring flaws, but it sounded good to me as I was writing it
2020-09-07 18:45:22	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 18:54:53		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-07 19:19:38		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-07 19:25:11		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-07 19:33:34	lukee	admicos: I quite like your proposal - nice and lightweight
2020-09-07 19:52:21	kevinsan	admicos, i also like your suggestion. i think if it provides something meaningful primarily to people, but also to machines then its a win.
2020-09-07 19:55:16	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 20:00:48		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-07 20:01:07	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 20:09:39	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 20:13:23	admicos	glad at least some people liked it :)  i tried to follow a format people might write "naturally", and the only disadvantage i can see is that it isn't as extensible as other proposals, which might not be a big deal, considering gemini
2020-09-07 20:19:59	@tomasino	sandra comes in swinging! love it
2020-09-07 20:20:08	@tomasino	humans++
2020-09-07 20:20:24	lukee	did I drink something funny today?
2020-09-07 20:20:41	@tomasino	heh, i don't know?
2020-09-07 20:20:46	@tomasino	i love this discussion, though
2020-09-07 20:21:01	@tomasino	full of great creative thinking but everyone is keeping humans top of mind
2020-09-07 20:21:28	lukee	yes, but its usually "humans like me"
2020-09-07 20:21:58	lukee	the anthropocentric centre of us all
2020-09-07 20:22:20		kline has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-07 20:23:23	lukee	Do we have to wait a week for solderpunk to wade in?
2020-09-07 20:25:00	@tomasino	if he ever does
2020-09-07 20:26:29	kvothe	the burnout is real, I suppose!
2020-09-07 20:27:27	@tomasino	he's in no hurry
2020-09-07 20:35:32	kevinsan	ok, sandra's link to c2 wiki concludes we all have to switch to XML, so if someone wants to write up the gemini XML markup and post it to the ML...
2020-09-07 20:35:48	lukee	lol that will go down well
2020-09-07 20:35:54	kevinsan	:)
2020-09-07 20:36:02	admicos	isn't gemini xml markup just small html
2020-09-07 20:36:18	easeout	yeah i would love for solderpunk to weigh in and clarify what the spec is really trying to say about alt text. my replies are based on just the way i read it after all
2020-09-07 20:36:53	lukee	admicos: its really the stunted beautiful lovechild of gophermaps and markdown
2020-09-07 20:36:59	easeout	but in the meantime i'm having a great time bikeshedding with you all 🍻
2020-09-07 20:39:21	lukee	sometimes it feels like we're discussing the American Constitution
2020-09-07 20:40:28	lukee	Or some other sacred text
2020-09-07 20:40:51	companion_cube	what's the c2 link?
2020-09-07 20:41:05	companion_cube	I'd love to read any argumentation in favor of xml, in 2020 :p
2020-09-07 20:41:06	kevinsan	or Brexit, though we have a higher chance of succeeding getting XML Gemini markup.
2020-09-07 20:41:23	lukee	Oh noes not the B word, kevinsan!
2020-09-07 20:41:25	kevinsan	companion_cube, see the mailing list
2020-09-07 20:41:26	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 20:42:00	⚡	kevinsan does not normally mention politics, and made reference more to the absurdity of XML Gemini
2020-09-07 20:42:40	companion_cube	ugh, not on the mailing list
2020-09-07 20:42:51	kevinsan	hang on, i'll type it for you
2020-09-07 20:43:08	kevinsan	http://wiki.c2.com/?HotComments
2020-09-07 20:43:15	admicos	cursed idea: alt-text on the bottom backticks of the preformatted text block
2020-09-07 20:43:17	companion_cube	:D
2020-09-07 20:43:24	lukee	<?xml version="1.0"><lines><line prefix="#">This would do it?</line></lines>
2020-09-07 20:44:14	lukee	I guess now is not the time to mention I prefer XML to JSON?
2020-09-07 20:44:36	companion_cube	imho both suck badly
2020-09-07 20:44:53	easeout	it's ok to have favorites and there are always pros and cons
2020-09-07 20:45:19	easeout	like, i think xml is fine for rss and atom because they are a) done, and b) accepted and in wise use
2020-09-07 20:45:31	easeout	no need to fix it if it ain't broke
2020-09-07 20:45:39	companion_cube	right, of course
2020-09-07 20:46:16	easeout	i did write in favor of json feed on the mailing list, but also i don't really feel the need to change it. i just think of the feed mechanisms that are popular that one is easiest so could be a sane default
2020-09-07 20:47:42	kevinsan	i think someone made the point that tooling was already available to deal with feeds, and that's compelling enough a reason.
2020-09-07 20:47:57	easeout	totally
2020-09-07 20:49:41	kevinsan	still, if feeds are being generated, there's no reason not to output multiple formats. I auto-generate a sitemap and search index at once, and will add atom/rss too when i get round to it
2020-09-07 20:49:55	lukee	kevinsan: have you ever tried to write Atom by hand?
2020-09-07 20:49:55	easeout	also totally
2020-09-07 20:50:27	kevinsan	no lukee, i've never really got into feeds either as a reader or a publisher
2020-09-07 20:50:40	sandra	I don't think the gmi files should be replaced by xml
2020-09-07 20:51:05	sandra	I'm saying the opposite. I don't think gmi files should feature creep up to something like XML or YAML.
2020-09-07 20:51:11	kevinsan	sandra, if you mean gemini XML format - that whole thing was a joke of absurdity
2020-09-07 20:51:22	lukee	my point is that Atom should be a derived format, not an authored one
2020-09-07 20:51:39	sandra	If you have structured complicated data, do not put it in gmi files. Link to it from gmi files.
2020-09-07 20:51:40	kevinsan	lukee, i would always derive/generate xml
2020-09-07 20:52:02	lukee	but from what - if you use file dates, it is very fragile
2020-09-07 20:52:24	easeout	i build atom in my ssg tool. it's just a text template to be populated so was really a one-time cost for my as the developer. and i did learn pretty quick not to use file dates :)
2020-09-07 20:52:33	easeout	-for me as
2020-09-07 20:53:00	kevinsan	honestly, I don't mind fragile - it's no big deal. but you use a standard title/date format which makes sense
2020-09-07 20:53:17	lukee	so I think the point of the discussion is what would be a sensible human-authored source format?
2020-09-07 20:53:26	sandra	So the HotComments web page that I linked to, some rando suggests using XML instead of half-assedly reinventing it. Or sexps or JSON or TSV or some other actual _data_ file format when you have actual complicated data
2020-09-07 20:53:32	sandra	org-mode, YAML, TOML, idc
2020-09-07 20:54:03	sandra	Even sqlite database files
2020-09-07 20:54:10	companion_cube	well sometimes you also want something human-readable/writable
2020-09-07 20:54:15	lukee	kevinsan: yes, I ended up down that route of using GMI as the source, for my own solution
2020-09-07 20:54:18	companion_cube	(sexps might be ok I guess)
2020-09-07 20:54:32	sandra	Don't put that in gmi. Gmi is for reading and for following links
2020-09-07 20:54:51	lukee	says who?
2020-09-07 20:55:04	lukee	it is a useful format for all kinds of things
2020-09-07 20:55:04	sandra	I am saying that right now
2020-09-07 20:55:18	sandra	That's my 2¢
2020-09-07 20:55:28	kevinsan	sandra, even a raw link list can be useful if you name files correctly
2020-09-07 20:55:35	sandra	kevinsan: Yes, it can be fantastic
2020-09-07 20:55:39	kevinsan	s/correctly/meaningfully/
2020-09-07 20:55:46	lukee	sorry, was being rhetorical. I mean theres no need not to make use of the utility of gemtext
2020-09-07 20:55:51	easeout	honestly i'm not sure why we are thinking about creating a new syndication format when the syndication format and the article format should not be related at all. for instance atom or rss or json feed can all publish http, gemini, any format, any scheme so long as there is a URL per item
2020-09-07 20:56:08	sandra	The existing atom+gmi setup is great
2020-09-07 20:56:31	easeout	like, why make a syndication format out of gemtext when it would only be used by us gemini folks
2020-09-07 20:56:47	lukee	the point is what do you want to author your feed in?
2020-09-07 20:57:05	lukee	and for the ordinary human gemini writers who cant write atom
2020-09-07 20:57:12	sandra	The point of gmi is to make easy browser. Browser does not need to understand atom. It can read gmi-files generated by something like CAPCOM
2020-09-07 20:57:32	@tomasino	people must find new projects to work on! otherwise what will they write about on gemini. :P
2020-09-07 20:57:37	lukee	well there are clients who are planning to implement atom support, like amfora
2020-09-07 20:57:58	sandra	That is completely bonkers
2020-09-07 20:57:59	lukee	maybe others too, solderpunk encouraged it
2020-09-07 20:58:22	easeout	implement atom support in what way? or, to what effect
2020-09-07 20:58:22	sandra	Supporting atom correctly, not just a subset of it, is really difficult
2020-09-07 20:58:39	easeout	like, show a list of links nicely and let you click through to read?
2020-09-07 20:58:41	sandra	Since you by design can put in things from other namespaces and schema
2020-09-07 20:58:53	lukee	well, the gemlog post format we use for capcom at least I think
2020-09-07 20:59:06	lukee	so probably a "sensible" subset
2020-09-07 20:59:09	sandra	Making an atom _writer_ is very easy
2020-09-07 20:59:29	sandra	As easeout pointed out♥
2020-09-07 20:59:31	kvothe	but wait, maybe I can parse this XML with regex!
2020-09-07 20:59:47	@tomasino	probably best to add client side javascript in there for some reason
2020-09-07 20:59:49	sandra	There are plenty of good XML parsers out there
2020-09-07 20:59:50	lukee	erm? plenty of XML libs in most languages
2020-09-07 21:00:03	kvothe	(I'm kidding, that was a trope on #perl IRC back in the day)
2020-09-07 21:00:09	easeout	well an xml parser is one thing but an atom parser on top of that is still a task
2020-09-07 21:00:14	lukee	Oh that old one :)
2020-09-07 21:00:17	easeout	however, atom parsers exist
2020-09-07 21:00:19	sandra	But the core of Gemini project's simplicity is to not have to do all that kind of stuff
2020-09-07 21:00:32	kevinsan	kvothe, i got a minor sinking feeling when i read that.
2020-09-07 21:00:39	kvothe	lol
2020-09-07 21:00:44	lukee	...so maybe authors need a simple way to express their feed?
2020-09-07 21:00:51	sandra	yes
2020-09-07 21:01:02	easeout	i have a simple way to express my feed called index.gmi in the blog folder
2020-09-07 21:01:05	lukee	like maybe a format with links in they understand
2020-09-07 21:01:08	easeout	it's not a feed, it's just a page
2020-09-07 21:01:13	easeout	and search engines can already index it
2020-09-07 21:01:24	easeout	but it is arranged like a feed, chronologically
2020-09-07 21:01:35	sandra	Best practices for putting your gems in there, like 2020-09-07-name.gmi and then the app removes the date and also uses that  date to put it in the correct place in the atom feed
2020-09-07 21:01:36	easeout	for aggregators, i have atom
2020-09-07 21:01:38	sandra	That's what I'm doing
2020-09-07 21:01:40	lukee	its really just the date bit that is missing
2020-09-07 21:01:54	easeout	yep sandra pretty much what i'm doing in gloggery
2020-09-07 21:02:10	easeout	except i keep the date in the filename cause i think people might like to have it, and i strip only the time of day.
2020-09-07 21:02:15	sandra	Except that I have 2020-09-07-name.md and convert it to gmi from md
2020-09-07 21:02:53	lukee	back to the question of ad hoc parsing I think :)
2020-09-07 21:03:32	xj9	a feed page could follow a more specific format that's still valid gemtext
2020-09-07 21:03:44	xj9	as a convention maybe?
2020-09-07 21:03:45	sandra	gmi to me is a "reading format" like PDF is. And my md files have all kind of super lotsa extended stuff and annotations and metadata and such that the gmi file don't need
2020-09-07 21:03:59	lukee	no its a writers format
2020-09-07 21:04:01	lukee	as well
2020-09-07 21:04:11	sandra	Yes, it can be really good for that
2020-09-07 21:04:18	lukee	unlike pdf
2020-09-07 21:04:35	sandra	Buuut if you need to put in a bunch of wackorama annotations and metadata and such, that can't be in gmi
2020-09-07 21:04:48	sandra	Use a YAML frontmatter that your publisher strips or w/e
2020-09-07 21:04:54	lukee	its a good question
2020-09-07 21:05:02	lukee	what do we do.
2020-09-07 21:05:09	easeout	hey so, here's an idea that leans into gemtext's strengths: a feed aggregator that does not really read feed files, but instead reads pages' total collections of links. you subscribe to a regular gemtext page like a blog index file, and diff the links from the last time you visited to collect the new stuff.
2020-09-07 21:05:10	lukee	Atom.xml is an example
2020-09-07 21:05:24	sandra	A blogging platform where people can just easily write gmi files and put in the date "on the side somehow" and it generates the atom is a good idea
2020-09-07 21:05:25	xj9	easeout: I like that a lot
2020-09-07 21:05:32		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-07 21:05:48	easeout	there would be some noise in the results but boy would it be easy
2020-09-07 21:05:53	lukee	easeout: I think that is how spacewalk works
2020-09-07 21:06:15	easeout	well great let's just do that lol
2020-09-07 21:06:26	lukee	It visits regularly and (my guess) it checks the page hash for changes
2020-09-07 21:06:30	xj9	that was easy
2020-09-07 21:06:51	easeout	boy that was such a good idea, somebody already did it hahaha
2020-09-07 21:06:56	sandra	No, what easeout and xj9 are saying is to actually look at the diff links, not just the hashes
2020-09-07 21:07:04	lukee	yes maybe, but it means the page itself cannot express when the post was published
2020-09-07 21:07:09	sandra	Spacewalk is pretty much only "Yup. This page is different since last time."
2020-09-07 21:07:30	easeout	oh sandra is right, the link goes to the index page rather than the post
2020-09-07 21:07:38	easeout	but it wouldn't be crazy to beef it up to do that
2020-09-07 21:07:39	lukee	whereas atom says "this was published on 1/1/2020"
2020-09-07 21:07:51	sandra	I think atom.xml is awesome
2020-09-07 21:08:12	sandra	Making an atom generator is not complicated. With templates. Shell scripts can do it
2020-09-07 21:08:34	lukee	for ordinary mortals?
2020-09-07 21:08:35	sandra	The complexity of parsing the atom correctly can be offloaded from the gem clients
2020-09-07 21:08:50	xj9	gemini is easier to parse than any XML format
2020-09-07 21:08:53	sandra	Yeah making an atom generator is a good first project after hello world
2020-09-07 21:09:06	kvothe	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemfeed
2020-09-07 21:09:27	sandra	Right, xj9, I'm saying don't put XML parsing in the gem clients. Offload it from them and instead serve them gem files a la CAPCOM
2020-09-07 21:09:30	lukee	kvothe - it is brittle, as it uses file dates I recall
2020-09-07 21:09:39	xj9	I'd be good with just requiring some additional meta in the gemtext feed page
2020-09-07 21:09:48	easeout	i think ordinary mortals can build an atom feed with copypasta. the timestamp format is maybe a hurdle
2020-09-07 21:09:57	xj9	nah XML shouldn't be involved
2020-09-07 21:10:20	sandra	lukee: Right, instead use date data stored in the "source document" next to, or attached to, the gmi files and strip that away when uploading. Side car! As was suggested when I asked about lang on the mailing list
2020-09-07 21:11:13	sandra	I was too lazy to even write the 2 lines of shell needed to write atom so I call touch based on my meta data's dates and then gemfeed uses those "touched" dates
2020-09-07 21:11:25	sandra	Except solderpunk forgot to push that commit to the release
2020-09-07 21:11:26	lukee	sandra: it would work, but you now have two files to maintain. Fine for folk like us - is it a reasonable expectation for ordinary non-tech writers?
2020-09-07 21:11:50	sandra	lukee: Make a gemfeed that looks at the date in the file name is what I'm saying
2020-09-07 21:11:55	easeout	if you want to publish to feed readers you need to publish RSS, Atom, or JSON Feed. them's the breaks
2020-09-07 21:12:15	lukee	so a naming convention
2020-09-07 21:12:16	easeout	in gemini-land, i believe a gemtext-only solution would work, but it should work on any gemtext page like a search engine, not require any extra metadata
2020-09-07 21:12:38	sandra	lukee: Yes, a naming convention for a particular generator app, not for "the wild and open web" to be obliged to follow
2020-09-07 21:12:46	easeout	a naming convention, or just server-side intelligence
2020-09-07 21:13:17	easeout	or, or, keep it dumb and just list new pages in the order you discovered them. if you run it by hour, they are sorted at least that well
2020-09-07 21:13:17	sandra	I oppose imposing conventions on others but they're a great solution for your own data conversion purps
2020-09-07 21:13:22	lukee	this is in fact what I do, it works for me: gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/2-Jul-2020_GMI_based_feed_generator.gmi
2020-09-07 21:14:28	sandra	lukee: I approve of that
2020-09-07 21:14:37	mhj	gemini://earthlight.xyz/blog/9.7.20-2-NixOS-A-Radical-Approach-To-OSes.gmi New article I just wrote!
2020-09-07 21:14:48	lukee	requires a script on the source server
2020-09-07 21:15:09	sandra	I run a script on my work computer and then rsync the gmi files and the atom files up
2020-09-07 21:15:31	sandra	Server side logic is what I want back to as opposed to overly heavy clients
2020-09-07 21:15:47	sandra	Server side logic or ssg logic
2020-09-07 21:16:17	sandra	In my case, like easeout, we use ssg logic but same difference: point is that clients are kept simple & non-obliged
2020-09-07 21:16:37	sandra	And the "non-obliged" part is not out of kindness towards them. It's out of "they're gonna mess it up!"-style lack of trust in them
2020-09-07 21:16:57	moody	mhj: nice article
2020-09-07 21:17:03	lukee	the point is that the ordinary writers will need something they can simply write, or will be running for them
2020-09-07 21:17:11	moody	I can vouch for zfs, even zfs on linux has gotten a lot better
2020-09-07 21:17:30	moody	despite it not being in tree due to CDDL issues
2020-09-07 21:17:35	mhj	I can too, I've used it on FreeBSD for quite some time moody
2020-09-07 21:17:51	sandra	lukee: Yes. An app. On the server on on their own computers. As opposed to a format and relying on convention
2020-09-07 21:18:01	sandra	People disobey formats and find loopholes in conventions
2020-09-07 21:18:06	moody	mhj: oh cool :)
2020-09-07 21:18:27	moody	I quite like how FreeBSD does things
2020-09-07 21:18:36	mhj	Me too, it's very organized
2020-09-07 21:18:37	lukee	formats arent things to be obeyed?
2020-09-07 21:18:38	moody	I was happy to seem them decide to rebase on the openZFS project
2020-09-07 21:18:42	easeout	me too big time re: freebsd
2020-09-07 21:19:19	mhj	it's what I run the gemini server on :D
2020-09-07 21:19:40	moody	mine does a bit indirectly
2020-09-07 21:19:44	moody	its running on a bhyve vm
2020-09-07 21:19:59	easeout	i liked the article, mhj. bombadillo had a bad time with the hard wraps though
2020-09-07 21:20:07	sandra	This is my piece and I don't have much to add to that. Keep gmi simple. Make people use apps to generate atom feeds. Those apps could become part of tilde capsule installations for example. They don't need to be specified as long as the atom feed follows spec.
2020-09-07 21:20:26	mhj	Oh I see easeout, I'll have to fix that for future articles.
2020-09-07 21:20:30	easeout	nbd :)
2020-09-07 21:21:02	sandra	As an example of one thing that's working: some Gemini servers have a directory in the user's home directory for their gem capsule, others have a dedicated directory in /var for that.
2020-09-07 21:21:09	sandra	That discrepancy is fine af
2020-09-07 21:21:17	moody	the next thing I would love see get added to fbsd is some of the same work that has gone in to wireguard in linux and obsd
2020-09-07 21:21:27	easeout	as much as i am down with the goal of making gemini content as easy as possible to write and syndicate, syndication is an existing ecosystem and i think an existing syndication format is simply the price of entry
2020-09-07 21:22:10	sandra	Similarly some tilde capsules could have a date sidecar file, others could have a file name convention, others yet could have a specific gmi file that their atom generator parsed. As long as we other people outside of that bubble can go there and see normal, un-specific gmi files and normal plain vanilla atom files
2020-09-07 21:22:10	lukee	not much to disagree with here
2020-09-07 21:22:39	sandra	Atom is great
2020-09-07 21:22:49	sandra	There… Is also a publish side to atom that's rarely used
2020-09-07 21:22:54	easeout	but i also think something like capcom/spacewalk could be built without relying on users creating a second feed page in addition to their blog index gemtext page. and i think all that's needed is that server to just do it, not any additional conventions
2020-09-07 21:22:56	lukee	except perhaps the gap between the ordinary user and publishing as atom
2020-09-07 21:23:32	lukee	We are assuming the users of Gemini are very computer literate
2020-09-07 21:23:37	sandra	lukee: The ordinary user can't write a Gemini server either
2020-09-07 21:23:41	lukee	which they probably are
2020-09-07 21:23:45	lukee	right now
2020-09-07 21:23:46	sandra	Some can't even install one. They use sites
2020-09-07 21:23:53	easeout	right, there is a future growth arc
2020-09-07 21:23:54	sandra	It's up to those sites to figure out the atom sitch
2020-09-07 21:24:30	sandra	There's no requirement for clients to understand atom or XML. Separate apps such as CAPCOM are doing the job very well
2020-09-07 21:24:48	easeout	i think eventually we want web readers to become gemini readers, to become gemini writers, to become gemini hosts and developers … there is a funnel and people will fall off of it so each thing we can make easier will be an improvement
2020-09-07 21:25:00	kvothe	to be fair, I'd love to have my client perform the role of spacewalk, too
2020-09-07 21:25:10	easeout	however! regular mortals are probably just gonna get on gemtext.blue or something and get their feed for free
2020-09-07 21:25:30	lukee	well. I think the point is that users will have their different feed set to be monitored, and the client is a natural place to go to get content
2020-09-07 21:25:34	easeout	kvothe, i love it
2020-09-07 21:26:15	sandra	Right. Keep clients simple. And gemtext.blue, gig's url/execute routing, the gemfeed→capcom interplay, none of that complexity is something that clients are ever exposed to. They just live in the happy land of parsing gmi
2020-09-07 21:26:32	sandra	Unlike the bloated clients of w3c land
2020-09-07 21:26:45	djph	.2
2020-09-07 21:26:47	lukee	no, because I may not want the feeds in capcom, I have my own
2020-09-07 21:26:48	sandra	I've said
2020-09-07 21:26:56	sandra	I've said my piece and am repeating myself at this point
2020-09-07 21:27:20	sandra	lukee: You can run your own CAPCOM, it's open source
2020-09-07 21:27:34	lukee	thats fine for me
2020-09-07 21:27:50	sandra	Or there could be a serverside service that does that for peeps
2020-09-07 21:27:54	easeout	i kind of want to make a browser now. one that is also a feed reader. bookmarks = subscriptions.
2020-09-07 21:27:59	lukee	maybe
2020-09-07 21:28:24	lukee	like the infamous (shudder) Google reader?
2020-09-07 21:28:31	sandra	easeout: Feed reader apps are fine, I use them myself, love them. Don't make it part of the mandated "this is gmi 2.0"
2020-09-07 21:28:40	⚡	kvothe clones spacewalk
2020-09-07 21:28:56	xj9	there can't be a gemini 2, there's no version field
2020-09-07 21:28:59	lukee	easeout: I think amfora will be first out of the block
2020-09-07 21:29:07	sandra	Some feed readers have built in web rendering. Much easier with built in gmi rendering
2020-09-07 21:29:09	easeout	oh this is browser only, not a format change
2020-09-07 21:29:12	easeout	this idea
2020-09-07 21:29:18	sandra	Like imagine something like snownews but it can understand gmi
2020-09-07 21:30:16	easeout	kind of like, solderpunk has been writing about living offline and just syncing from now and then … this kind of browser would support that kind of workflow
2020-09-07 21:30:23	lukee	sandra: I dont think the expectation is a feed reader in your client is gmi 2.0
2020-09-07 21:31:41	sandra	lukee: What I'm protesting is extending gmi
2020-09-07 21:31:58	lukee	I can't see any extensions here
2020-09-07 21:32:01	easeout	yeah in this case i'm not adding to gmi.
2020-09-07 21:32:07	xj9	easeout: would your browser do a cache proxy? i was thinking of doing something like a geminifs that always tries to fetch the current page, but still returns the most recent copy if there is no network.
2020-09-07 21:32:29	easeout	i think that would be reasonable, xj
2020-09-07 21:32:34	sandra	lukee: In which case there is no fight
2020-09-07 21:32:35	easeout	cause i would need some basis on which to compare links before and after
2020-09-07 21:32:43	easeout	may as well just keep the page; it's not like gemtext is a lot of data
2020-09-07 21:33:32	easeout	i really dig this little ecosystem. i get inspired to do projects here more than most places
2020-09-07 21:34:39	sandra	easeout: this souped-up spacewalk does trip my "this would encourage conventions" alarm though. It expects things from index.gmi that aren't always true
2020-09-07 21:35:40	easeout	i'm not sure i follow, do you have an example?
2020-09-07 21:35:52	easeout	i am just thinking i could parse links on any page and identify new ones on a subsequent check
2020-09-07 21:36:14	sandra	Even spacewalk itself has issues. My index.gmi almost never changes, it has links to two subcategories. Spacewalk guy asked me to select one of them to submit. So updates to the other category are not detected
2020-09-07 21:36:24	xj9	a simple gemini spider would be a lot more versatile than a feed parser
2020-09-07 21:36:50	easeout	oh i see. yeah, i would just get _every link_
2020-09-07 21:37:05	sandra	Sometimes links are removed, sometimes inserted out of order, sometimes the page the link links to is updated without the link changes
2020-09-07 21:37:06	easeout	i mentioned above it would be a little noisy, but i think it'd be worth it
2020-09-07 21:37:07	xj9	could run locally or on a grid if you're doing inferno or plan9 stuff
2020-09-07 21:37:36	sandra	My index.gmi has two links. texts.gmi and images.gmi are changing
2020-09-07 21:38:04	easeout	ok. in my mind somebody would subsrcibe to texts.gmi or images.gmi or both
2020-09-07 21:38:10	easeout	if those are the pages with lists of items on them
2020-09-07 21:39:00	sandra	And here is where the "conventions" enter the picture. It expects pages to follow a convention of being an updated list of links
2020-09-07 21:39:28	xj9	well if you are using a spider, it would just be a mirror of the site
2020-09-07 21:39:31	sandra	Instead of maybe an explorable tree of lists of lists
2020-09-07 21:39:46	easeout	oh so you're thinking about link structure, i see
2020-09-07 21:39:52	lukee	hypertext is not just a tree
2020-09-07 21:40:11	sandra	lukee: all kinds of structures can exist
2020-09-07 21:40:18	easeout	so like, i'm thinking either you want to subscribe to _a page_ like spacewalk and just know when that one page updates, or you want to subsrcibe to _a page's links_ and know when there are new URLs linked to
2020-09-07 21:40:50	sandra	And sites that don't follow that structure are left out
2020-09-07 21:41:17	easeout	huh, are there blogs that don't do one of those two things?
2020-09-07 21:41:44	easeout	or like, do you have an example in mind i could use to see where you're coming from
2020-09-07 21:41:52	lukee	I think sandra is talking about sites, easeout is talking about pages?
2020-09-07 21:42:06	kvothe	I remember one of the frustrating things about a similar crawler for gopher, moku-pona: sometimes people would put system time in the gopher page response
2020-09-07 21:42:07	xj9	a site without links would also be hard to index
2020-09-07 21:42:12	sandra	Like, wiki-like sites where you want to subscribe to latest articles
2020-09-07 21:42:21	kvothe	thus, it always changed
2020-09-07 21:42:31	@tomasino	a true true
2020-09-07 21:42:35	@tomasino	hit gemini://tomasino.org
2020-09-07 21:42:43	easeout	kvothe, but if you subscribe to the links then you don't need to pay attention to anything but links
2020-09-07 21:42:47	@tomasino	do i still have the date-time up top?
2020-09-07 21:42:56	kvothe	easeout: good point
2020-09-07 21:42:57	@tomasino	i do
2020-09-07 21:43:13	kvothe	yeppers
2020-09-07 21:43:31	easeout	ok that makes sense sandra
2020-09-07 21:43:32	@tomasino	if you don't watch for page content changing all those pika-logs or whatever they're called won't show up again
2020-09-07 21:43:51	easeout	but in that case, wouldn't a wiki have a "latest posts" page that listed them though? like wikipedia could do that on RSS
2020-09-07 21:43:55	sandra	That's why I like atom
2020-09-07 21:44:02	@tomasino	atom is good
2020-09-07 21:44:13	easeout	maybe i could stand to learn more about what atom can do
2020-09-07 21:44:42	xj9	to be honest, i just don't want to deal with xml
2020-09-07 21:45:03	@tomasino	we have a few atom generators out there now
2020-09-07 21:45:10	xj9	and from my perspective, atom is just as much of a convention as a feed-type page writting in gemini
2020-09-07 21:45:11	@tomasino	you could just run the script and be good
2020-09-07 21:45:27	@tomasino	atom is well established with a huge wealth of software and libraries
2020-09-07 21:45:31	xj9	i already wrote my own atom generator and i didn't enjoy it
2020-09-07 21:45:48	@tomasino	we're not the rust community. We don't need to reinvent the wheel
2020-09-07 21:45:49	@tomasino	:D
2020-09-07 21:45:57	sandra	Xj your nick is similar to my XML parser. gemini://idiomdrottning.org/xj.gmi
2020-09-07 21:46:11	kvothe	I need this in a crate post-haste
2020-09-07 21:47:29	xj9	i have a problem with complexity, xml is complex so i don't like it
2020-09-07 21:47:52	sandra	https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png making a new format will add complexity to the world
2020-09-07 21:48:02	xj9	that's ok
2020-09-07 21:48:06	xj9	i don't care what they do
2020-09-07 21:48:37	sandra	There is also JSON feed. Which I don't like but it is, like atom and RSS, pre-existing
2020-09-07 21:48:40	xj9	entropy in general is not avoidable
2020-09-07 21:49:11	xj9	i'm partial to devine's ndtl format, which we used to use for wiki feeds
2020-09-07 21:49:11	moody	JSON seems bit less annoying them xml in my opinion
2020-09-07 21:49:55	xj9	json is easier to parse
2020-09-07 21:50:05	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-07 21:50:30	sandra	That's why I did the xj XML->JSON filter :)
2020-09-07 21:50:49	moody	I wouldn't be against some sort of new feed format
2020-09-07 21:51:17	sandra	I'm against new feed formats
2020-09-07 21:51:30	moody	To me some of the charm of gemini is getting the chance to revist these old wheels and go with something easier to write code for
2020-09-07 21:52:48	moody	but I haven't been around here for super long, so I am not sure what other peoples interpratation is
2020-09-07 21:52:50	lukee	moody: after all that is what gemini has done in itself
2020-09-07 21:53:20	lukee	why invent Gemini if you have the web? (rhetorical question, please dont anyone answer this!)
2020-09-07 21:53:49	moody	lukee: I would agree, so to me coming up with a feed system is within the same spirit
2020-09-07 21:54:01	sandra	Why make Gemini as cumbersome and overgrown as the web
2020-09-07 21:54:02	lukee	yes there is something in that
2020-09-07 21:54:04	@tomasino	if it solves a problem go for it
2020-09-07 21:54:24	@tomasino	gemini solves a problem. are there enough problem with feed formats that we need a new one? cool. solve away
2020-09-07 21:54:42	moody	sandra: I think there is also partially responsibility for the inclusion of other standards
2020-09-07 21:54:48	moody	if that makes sense
2020-09-07 21:55:50	lukee	one of the things I really like about gemini is the low barriers to entry for writers.
2020-09-07 21:56:35	moody	lukee: I agree it was really satisfying to see it crop up in ecosystems that by modern standards are quite limited
2020-09-07 21:56:36	lukee	if possible, they shouldnt have to rely too much on the tools from wizards to get their content out there
2020-09-07 21:57:48	moody	I thougt the orignal idea of a csv like format sounded great fwiw
2020-09-07 21:58:16	lukee	the web promised a sort of parity for writers and readers, but then the writers got lumbered with CMS and Word press
2020-09-07 21:58:28	sandra	You guys are killing me with this... I had a Gemini site up, but now in order for peepsnto be able to follow it I need to implement a completely new format!?
2020-09-07 21:59:10	moody	sandra: well I think the idea is that these changes woul be easy to create for server writers
2020-09-07 21:59:45	sandra	You are dropping homework in my lap is what you are doing
2020-09-07 22:00:19	lukee	no one is making you do anything
2020-09-07 22:00:44	lukee	we are discussing relative merits of different options
2020-09-07 22:01:00	moody	What I would like to see is not a new 'standard' so to say, just something line orientated to works for both humans and machines
2020-09-07 22:01:04	sandra	And I am stating some drawbacks of one of the proposed courses of action
2020-09-07 22:01:32	lukee	all standardisation is tradeoffs
2020-09-07 22:02:11	lukee	what is the goal, who are the users, what are the applications, what are the intended outcomes?
2020-09-07 22:03:36	sandra	Non-wizards to read and write is a good thing. Non-wizards can't write their own gemini server. They need to rely on installing existing ones or using someone else's setup. Weä
2020-09-07 22:03:46	sandra	we already have that situation
2020-09-07 22:05:27	lukee	and what further infrastructure will they have to become cognisant of - run this script, install this app, etc
2020-09-07 22:05:35	sandra	How about a new format -- with an app that turns that into atom
2020-09-07 22:05:36	moody	Just now catching up on some of the discussion on the ML, I think Ranf's idea is quite nice
2020-09-07 22:10:17	moody	Clients can chose to implement a feed like system if they like and servers can opt in to providing a feed like file for subdirs
2020-09-07 22:10:18	sandra	With the understanding that everyine got into Gemini for different reasons, I got into Gemini after reading this web page. https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html. Creating a new format, I see as increasing scope
2020-09-07 22:12:18	lukee	that is a great polemic
2020-09-07 22:13:40	lukee	For me, it is also related to the simplicity of the technology, being just on the edge of useful enough
2020-09-07 22:14:08	lukee	and to explore the notion of a human scaled hypertext
2020-09-07 22:15:12	lukee	where what makes sense at a human scale should drive the technology
2020-09-07 22:15:31	lukee	(we will have different views on that)
2020-09-07 22:20:19	sandra	Technology that has a public interface (formats, protocols and conventions) has a different degree of responsibility than technology that doesn't (specific implementations and source formats).
2020-09-07 22:21:21	sandra	The latter aren't necessarily making the system as a whole more complex. The former always are.
2020-09-07 22:24:05	sandra	CAPCOM introduced complexity when it asked people to have atom feeds in order to participate. Trying to amend that decision is adding to complexity rather than taking away from it.
2020-09-07 22:24:30	sandra	Uh, sleep time. Ttyl.
2020-09-07 22:34:12	sandra	That's enough parade-raining for one day from me
2020-09-07 22:57:11	makeworld	I am also against new feed formats
2020-09-07 22:57:53	lukee	hi makeworld
2020-09-07 22:58:09	makeworld	The feed formats being proposed seem to attempt to be nicely viewable in gemtext, and what's the point? A feed is supposed to be machine-readable and therefore strongly specced. But at that point you have to implement parsing for it, and then the added complexity is obvious
2020-09-07 22:58:11	makeworld	Hello!
2020-09-07 22:58:24	lukee	there was some excitement earlier at the prospect of client feed curation. Is that still coming in your next drop of amfora?
2020-09-07 22:58:27	makeworld	Wanted to say I kinda agree with easeout about your proposal
2020-09-07 22:58:56	lukee	it seems to have got everyone's spirits up
2020-09-07 22:58:56	makeworld	lukee: It is! I was sad I couldn't realize it in v1.5.0 after the initial excitement, but it is still planned, hopefully for v1.6.0
2020-09-07 22:59:30	makeworld	All that's left is the graphical stuff like modals for adding new feeds and the like, and then lots of testing
2020-09-07 23:01:49	lukee	sounds good
2020-09-07 23:02:07	moody	makeworld: thanks for you work on amfora, its quite the nice client :)
2020-09-07 23:02:15	lukee	I'm going to call it a night here - catch you all some time soon...
2020-09-07 23:02:19		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-07 23:02:19	makeworld	You're welcome! Glad you like it :)
2020-09-07 23:02:22	makeworld	See you lukee
2020-09-07 23:02:31	moody	it was the first client I used to test the server I wrote
2020-09-07 23:02:57	makeworld	Oh yeah? Nice
2020-09-07 23:04:40	makeworld	I've tried to keep the gemini client lib it uses very compliant so I find it (and gemget) handy for testing
2020-09-07 23:04:51	makeworld	Or very strict, rather
2020-09-07 23:06:14	⚡	makeworld afk, 🍕
2020-09-07 23:43:03	autumnova	makeworld: Big thanks for all your work on amfora.
2020-09-08 00:03:09	makeworld	Thanks also :)
2020-09-08 00:03:48	makeworld	Feel free to contribute some code or cash!
2020-09-08 00:04:33	autumnova	I wish I could do both, but I can't do neither since I can't code for my life and I'm unemployeed :(
2020-09-08 00:06:27	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 00:11:57	djph	can always learn to code :)
2020-09-08 00:13:33	autumnova	I'm on it. I first need to learn PHP for my degree, before I can do other things.
2020-09-08 00:14:26	djph	oh, I'm sorry.
2020-09-08 00:15:23	kevinsan	lol djph, is that a dig at our darling of the web, PHP?
2020-09-08 00:15:42	autumnova	I feel sorry for myself. I'm comfortable with shell scripting and that's it. I still have no idea why the final exam for my CS degree requires HTML/PHP/MySQL
2020-09-08 00:15:47	djph	condolences for poor autumnova's liver
2020-09-08 00:16:00	moody	thats some CS program
2020-09-08 00:16:05	moody	mine was just lots of Java
2020-09-08 00:16:08	djph	^
2020-09-08 00:16:17	autumnova	I'd be more comfortable with Java.
2020-09-08 00:16:45	makeworld	That's a weird requirement, too bad
2020-09-08 00:17:04	makeworld	Also no worries, glad to hear you like the client :)
2020-09-08 00:17:28	autumnova	As soon as I have my degree (~2 months from now), I will learn Go.
2020-09-08 00:17:50	autumnova	Hopefully I will be able to contribute this year ^^
2020-09-08 00:18:19	makeworld	Ha nice! Good luck
2020-09-08 00:18:25	autumnova	Thx.
2020-09-08 00:18:38	moody	Go is a great language
2020-09-08 00:18:43	moody	I look forward to go2 quite a bit
2020-09-08 00:19:37	kevinsan	i can't shake the fact it's google's, in light of what android bacame
2020-09-08 00:20:05	moody	It's mostly Pike and Ken's baby
2020-09-08 00:20:38	kevinsan	that's the alluring bit, but i doubt they own the runtime or libraries
2020-09-08 00:20:39	moody	The stdlib has a lot of plan9 libc influence and the compilers they started with were ken's plan9 compiler
2020-09-08 00:21:29	moody	even done to the whole interface design concept
2020-09-08 00:21:59	moody	google has slowly been creeping in on it I would say though, once they saw it made a lot of money
2020-09-08 00:22:31	makeworld	How so?
2020-09-08 00:23:07	moody	the recent go.dev proxy stuff
2020-09-08 00:23:11	moody	is one example that comes to mind
2020-09-08 00:23:42	moody	I like the addition of generics but given how much Pike opposed it I was suprised to see it get in to the pipeline
2020-09-08 00:24:47	makeworld	Yeah that is kind of annoying. But the idea of a proxy makes sense to a degree, and it's open source
2020-09-08 00:24:58	makeworld	Like there are already other groups hosting their own proxies that you can switch to right away
2020-09-08 00:25:43	moody	I dont mind the influence too much, just something to mention
2020-09-08 00:28:11	moody	I am pretty excited to get generic Map and Fold
2020-09-08 00:34:54	autumnova	Already, 2:35 here. Good night everyone o/
2020-09-08 01:13:05	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 01:14:18	ℹ 	gbmor is now known as gameboymore
2020-09-08 01:14:40	ℹ 	Nalaph is now known as NintendoSwitchMore
2020-09-08 01:15:16	ℹ 	NintendoSwitchMore is now known as nalaph
2020-09-08 01:15:27	ℹ 	gameboymore is now known as gbmor
2020-09-08 02:12:43		flexibeast has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-08 02:15:26		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 02:47:14	easeout	https://github.com/kconner/gemini-subscription-cli
2020-09-08 02:47:35	easeout	here is a first try at subscribing to gemini pages' links as if they were syndication feeds
2020-09-08 02:48:13	easeout	1. run make; it will make an empty subscription URLs file
2020-09-08 02:48:30	easeout	2. add URLs to the file, one per line
2020-09-08 02:48:54	easeout	i tested with the URLs of my glog and capcom
2020-09-08 02:49:19	easeout	3. run make again; it will fetch the pages, trim down to links, and emit them to new-links.gmi and stdout
2020-09-08 02:49:55	easeout	4. run make again later after pages have changed; it will replace new-links.gmi with only newly discovered links
2020-09-08 02:52:19	easeout	this is a proof of concept; you could build on it or reimplement it to create a feed reader, or a browser that put unread badges on bookmarks, or to statically generate a private news feed page for yourself
2020-09-08 02:53:06	easeout	in short, RSS / Atom / JSON Feed are great for participating in the web syndication ecosystem
2020-09-08 02:53:43	easeout	as an alternative, Gemini and Gemtext are simple enough that you can consume gemini pages _as if_ they were syndication feeds
2020-09-08 02:56:23	easeout	i think that could take some of the burden off of content creators' shoulders, if it becomes something that is known and available and easy to reach for
2020-09-08 02:57:40	easeout	for it to be available like that, i think it would have to be in a browser.
2020-09-08 03:12:53		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-08 04:40:47	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 05:02:42	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 05:11:51		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 06:49:45		tiwesdaeg has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 06:51:02	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 06:51:02	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-09-08 07:25:12		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-08 07:29:12	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 08:09:49	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 08:22:27		sandra has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 08:38:55		Cadey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 08:41:09	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 09:01:44	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 09:43:08	autumnova	Good morning everyone o/
2020-09-08 09:47:51	sandra	:)
2020-09-08 09:49:33	autumnova	Good morning sandra o/
2020-09-08 10:22:16	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 10:29:33		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-08 10:30:11	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 10:33:55		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 10:34:11	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 10:52:42	kevinsan	easeout, thanks for sharing that. I added verify=0 to socat's connect string because [certificates!]
2020-09-08 10:52:51	kevinsan	socat "openssl:${url_domain}:${url_port},verify=0"
2020-09-08 11:16:42	rmgr	exit
2020-09-08 11:16:43	rmgr	exit
2020-09-08 11:16:47	rmgr	haha
2020-09-08 11:16:56	rmgr	youre on irc rmgr
2020-09-08 11:23:26	⚡	autumnova made some strawberry/raspberry tea for everyone
2020-09-08 11:27:31	⚡	kevinsan appreciates the kindness, and also the generosity in spirit, at least
2020-09-08 11:28:42		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-08 11:47:30	⚡	idf gets some sarmale
2020-09-08 12:04:24		tiwesdaeg has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 12:05:41	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 12:05:41	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-09-08 13:32:39	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 14:03:49		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 14:13:32	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 14:21:32	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-08 14:24:18	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 14:24:19	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 14:27:54	felix	Hello!
2020-09-08 14:36:44	acdw	o/ felix
2020-09-08 14:36:54	felix	How are you?
2020-09-08 14:37:29	acdw	I'm doing prety good; it's cold @ work tho
2020-09-08 14:37:35	felix	Aw.
2020-09-08 14:37:44	acdw	like ... 65 in here (18 C)
2020-09-08 14:37:55	acdw	haha thanks for the support
2020-09-08 14:38:04	felix	AC turned all the way up?
2020-09-08 14:38:14	acdw	how are you doing?
2020-09-08 14:38:14	acdw	I don't know what they did; I guess it is
2020-09-08 14:38:36	felix	I made a thing! Not gemini related, though I did post it there first.
2020-09-08 14:38:40	acdw	oh nice!
2020-09-08 14:38:43	acdw	link?
2020-09-08 14:39:38	@tomasino	just gotta guess
2020-09-08 14:39:39	felix	gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~nttp/toys/snaked.gmi
2020-09-08 14:39:41	@tomasino	aww
2020-09-08 14:40:06	acdw	haha
2020-09-08 14:40:30	acdw	hey tomasino I saw your thing on tilde.black ... too bad! but i'm glad you're at peace with the decision
2020-09-08 14:41:01	@tomasino	thanks!
2020-09-08 14:41:04	@tomasino	still got cosmic voyage
2020-09-08 14:41:23	makeworld	What happened to tilde.black? It doesn't even resolve anymore?
2020-09-08 14:41:49	makeworld	Apparently "DNSSEC BOGUS"
2020-09-08 14:42:02	makeworld	*"DNSSEC Bogus"
2020-09-08 14:42:14	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/phlog/20200905-goodbye-tilde-black
2020-09-08 14:42:27	acdw	aww yeah cosmic voyage. okay I *have* to make an account on there now so I can have a home that's watched over by tomasino
2020-09-08 14:42:46	@tomasino	:D!!
2020-09-08 14:43:18	acdw	I'm gonna be honest I think I signed into ~black ... once?
2020-09-08 14:44:54	login	me too
2020-09-08 14:45:32	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 14:45:42	felix	At least it was relatively painless.
2020-09-08 14:46:38	felix	People who run pubnixes are brave.
2020-09-08 14:47:29	acdw	oh that reminds me I've had this one person wanting to sign up for breadpunk for like a week...i just keep forgetting to add them
2020-09-08 14:51:28	makeworld	Sorry to hear that tomasino
2020-09-08 16:17:33		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-08 16:19:08	easeout	thanks for the revision kevinsan
2020-09-08 16:55:27		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-08 17:40:36	easeout	i wrote up that idea for subscribing to any page on the ML and my glog.
2020-09-08 17:44:34	felix	It echoes some concerns from the IndieWeb community.
2020-09-08 17:52:53	paper	I am writing a program which needs to accept user input and display it. What should I do if the input starts with =>? I think escaping isn't an option for gemini if I didn't miss it in the spec. a space before it maybe?
2020-09-08 17:56:26	felix	I think a space before it is plenty enough.
2020-09-08 17:56:53	paper	great, thanks
2020-09-08 17:57:11	sandra	Maybe ``` before and after
2020-09-08 17:57:24	sandra	paper
2020-09-08 17:57:43	moody	I thought special characters has to be escpaed
2020-09-08 17:58:36	moody	because input is sent back in the URL, it is subject to html escape code encoding
2020-09-08 17:58:51	moody	err s/html/URL/
2020-09-08 17:58:54	sandra	paper, I just tested the ``` before and after method and it worked
2020-09-08 17:59:06	felix	What Sandra says. That would be the foolproof method according to spec.
2020-09-08 17:59:25	sandra	gemini://idiomdrottning.org/scrappy.gmi
2020-09-08 17:59:29	paper	sandra: that's a way too, but what if the user inputs ```
2020-09-08 18:00:34	sandra	How to quine gemtext♥
2020-09-08 18:01:08	sandra	Put some invisible bull unicode char before
2020-09-08 18:01:21	sandra	Just brainstorming, I don't know
2020-09-08 18:01:44	paper	ok, I will try asking on the ML, thanks for helping
2020-09-08 18:02:37	sandra	Very unusual that the format doesn't have escapes for its control characters
2020-09-08 18:02:40	sandra	Good find paper
2020-09-08 18:02:47	sandra	Achilles record player
2020-09-08 18:03:21	xj9	base64 no?
2020-09-08 18:03:54	xj9	oh to display, sticking it between ``` should be good as long as the client does the toggles correctly
2020-09-08 18:08:32	paper	xj9: but if the user inputs ```, it will invert all next preformatting
2020-09-08 18:10:43	felix	A space before should cause the line to be parsed as plain text though.
2020-09-08 18:12:26	paper	that seems to be the best way for now
2020-09-08 18:21:13	felix	Anyway, see you!
2020-09-08 18:21:57		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-08 19:28:46	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 20:49:20		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 21:01:34	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 21:38:40		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-08 21:47:56	autumnova	I did hide Firefox.
2020-09-08 21:48:05	autumnova	That was the wrong window :D
2020-09-08 22:15:25		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-08 23:09:37		rmgr has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-08 23:24:11	kevinsan	Spec says: SNI is mandatory to facilitate name-based virtual hosting. However, it also defines an absolute URL for the request.
2020-09-08 23:25:05	kevinsan	The request alone is enough for name-based virtual hosting. SNI seems almost pointless, particularly given that its sent plain-text.
2020-09-08 23:26:47	kevinsan	The only advantage I see is that I can potentially have multiple server certificates, one for each host, but then self-signed certificates are used, so who needs that extra complexity?
2020-09-08 23:27:13	kevinsan	Am I missing something?
2020-09-08 23:49:34	CommunistWolf	ESNI is a thing now
2020-09-08 23:49:35	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-08 23:50:01	CommunistWolf	it's handy to have before you process the request in some scenarios
2020-09-08 23:52:00	moody	I've seen a couple requests for favicon.txt on my server, whats is that used for?
2020-09-08 23:56:41	admicos	moody: iirc some clients look for a favicon.txt containing a single emoji to display next to tab names
2020-09-09 00:01:39	kevinsan	CommunistWolf, wikipedia states that china blocked ESNI. Without SNI, I could look up and connect to fluffykittens.org, but make the gemini request to downwiththeregime.org
2020-09-09 00:15:49	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 02:08:30		[tomasino away: zzz]
2020-09-09 02:08:44	▬▬▶	tricon has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 02:12:32		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-09-09 02:17:26	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 02:31:05		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-09 02:51:44	▬▬▶	tricon` has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 02:52:13		tricon has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-09 02:56:48		tricon` has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-09 03:34:00	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 04:23:01		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-09 04:28:07	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 05:05:55	rmgr	vee: Love the new pages on GUS
2020-09-09 06:23:57		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-09 06:32:59		lain has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-09 08:41:02	CommunistWolf	kevinsan: it has, for now, in certain combinations
2020-09-09 09:10:44	epoch	I kind of want to make a N2L service over gemini, but I'm not sure if any clients other than my own would be able to use it.
2020-09-09 09:11:44	epoch	I was thinking of doing it like a gemini-proxy where they'd just submit the URN as the request, instead of sending my whole URL, then encoding the URN into the query string.
2020-09-09 09:12:30	epoch	and I'd output a text/uri-list containing where the URN could resolve to.
2020-09-09 10:38:22		[tomasino back: gone 08:29:52]
2020-09-09 10:50:27		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-09 10:50:43	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 11:31:29	sandra	kevinsan: I'm still holding out hope that the certificate sitch will be improved and in that case that could be a cause for separate certs. I mean, my own certs cover the multiple hosts (and is a way to find out which of my hosts are hosted on which server—I have two servers and they each have their own collection of hostnames in their cert files).
2020-09-09 12:22:55	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 12:50:45		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-09 12:51:12	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 12:51:38		dctrud has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-09 12:51:46	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 12:51:59		dctrud has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-09 12:52:58	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 13:28:37	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 13:59:31		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-09 16:13:26		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-09 16:15:04	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 16:15:55	felix	Hello!
2020-09-09 16:16:05	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 16:16:46	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-09 16:17:27	idf	hello
2020-09-09 16:17:39	felix	How's it going?
2020-09-09 16:18:11	acdw	hi
2020-09-09 16:18:26	acdw	trying to figure out wht to put on my capsule today, how're you?
2020-09-09 16:18:44	felix	Not very productive either. :)
2020-09-09 16:18:46	idf	im planning on writing another more technical blog while my PR is open
2020-09-09 16:20:26	felix	Wrote down a thought that barely counts as a blog post, but not on Gemini.
2020-09-09 16:21:54	acdw	nice, idf! and felix! writing anything is +++
2020-09-09 16:22:18	felix	https://twtxt.net/blog/felixp7/2020/09/09/ive-been-looking-at-blogs-wrong-this-entire-time
2020-09-09 16:24:25	acdw	^ that is really intersting
2020-09-09 16:24:38	acdw	makin' me think real differently about the web, thanks!
2020-09-09 16:25:52	idf	im also considering making a mirroring daemon for gemini
2020-09-09 16:26:02	idf	for gemini pages
2020-09-09 16:26:10	acdw	for the web?
2020-09-09 16:26:24	idf	no i mean, mirror the same content between multiple servers
2020-09-09 16:26:38	idf	of gemini
2020-09-09 16:27:08	felix	Could be useful!
2020-09-09 16:27:12	acdw	oh oh yes
2020-09-09 16:27:39	idf	atm im just boggling with ideas
2020-09-09 16:28:23	acdw	such a great feeling!
2020-09-09 16:29:34	idf	basically every server in a station(term for the bunch of servers that mirror each other) would have a public feed in json, where every action on the respective server would be recorded
2020-09-09 16:30:01	idf	then the other servers check the feed of each other server then does the changes
2020-09-09 16:30:11	idf	so you could have a bunch of servers hosting the same stuff
2020-09-09 16:30:27	idf	i was thinking of using client certificates to identify the poster of each content
2020-09-09 16:32:37	acdw	idf: so basically, the Fediverse but on gemini?
2020-09-09 16:32:43	idf	yup
2020-09-09 16:33:17	acdw	taht sound pretty interesting tbh
2020-09-09 16:33:45	idf	thx
2020-09-09 16:34:19	idf	im still not sure how to handle the possibility of modifying the mirrored content
2020-09-09 16:35:20	acdw	hm that is tricky
2020-09-09 16:35:49	idf	since i want the content to be on each server, so sending a md5 hash with every content would be useless, since that could be changed too
2020-09-09 16:36:05	acdw	you wouldn't want md5 anyway, but eyah
2020-09-09 16:36:08	idf	yea
2020-09-09 16:36:19	idf	just gave an example
2020-09-09 16:36:21	acdw	well wouldn't the mirrors know it was changed by geting a new hash?
2020-09-09 16:36:44	idf	hmm yea
2020-09-09 16:36:50	acdw	what if it was like, a canonical url + hash of content -- so they'd match em up with their db and if it doesn't match, re-download from source
2020-09-09 16:37:02	acdw	you'd need a canonical link for them .. ?
2020-09-09 16:37:18	idf	sounds interesting
2020-09-09 16:37:24	idf	i will think of it
2020-09-09 16:38:53	acdw	good luck!
2020-09-09 16:38:59	idf	thank you!
2020-09-09 16:39:19	idf	i will send more updates if you want, i might post it on the gemini mail list if i get a more standardised thing
2020-09-09 16:40:14	acdw	yes please :)
2020-09-09 16:41:20	idf	the big picture would be that people could run "stations", as in boards on image/textboards or subreddits on reddit or forum topics if you want, each station would have a theme and rules
2020-09-09 16:42:15	acdw	yeah that'd be the thing. but if you could pitch it as like, a fedi on gemini, that might work.
2020-09-09 16:44:36	idf	i initially wanted it to be a full on activitypub but for gemini, but after some brainstorm, i just realised i was complicating myself too much
2020-09-09 16:44:47	idf	no need for that w3c stuff
2020-09-09 16:46:30	acdw	right right
2020-09-09 16:47:49	idf	you could see it like space stations floating in gemini space, you can visit each one of them, to post i was thinking of using client side certificates, and a list of authorized certificates shared by all the servers in the station
2020-09-09 16:48:10	felix	Got to love this space theme we have going.
2020-09-09 16:48:16	idf	indeed
2020-09-09 16:50:04	idf	point is, they dont have to be interconnected, they just exist, the only stuff that is interconnected are the servers in a station. Stations dont have to be interconnected, since they would use the same format, so visiting any other station would be the same anyway
2020-09-09 16:51:06	idf	so the "fediverse" would be geminispace itself
2020-09-09 16:52:22	idf	kinda weird how i came up with all of this from like content mirroring
2020-09-09 16:53:12	felix	A good sign!
2020-09-09 16:54:34	idf	thanks
2020-09-09 16:58:04	idf	I might start writing a draft description soon, seeing you guys are interested :)
2020-09-09 16:59:37	acdw	awesome
2020-09-09 17:00:00	felix	If nothing else, it will make people think.
2020-09-09 17:00:54	felix	My interest is only theoretical anyway.
2020-09-09 17:02:59	idf	fair
2020-09-09 17:03:17	@tomasino	who built astrobotany again?
2020-09-09 17:04:32	idf	michael lazar
2020-09-09 17:06:55	@tomasino	right right
2020-09-09 17:07:06	@tomasino	someone commented on my "What is Gemini?" video asking how it was made
2020-09-09 17:07:11	@tomasino	did he write it up or share source?
2020-09-09 17:09:45	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 17:10:56	autumnova	tomasino: https://github.com/michael-lazar/astrobotany
2020-09-09 17:11:04	@tomasino	thanks!
2020-09-09 17:11:10	⚡	tomasino goes off to the toobz
2020-09-09 17:11:11	autumnova	You're welcome.
2020-09-09 18:00:26		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-09 18:25:53		mhj has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-09 18:27:16		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-09 19:13:15	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 19:18:05		jb55 has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-09 19:45:25	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 20:21:29	▬▬▶	paper__ has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 20:55:38	kevinsan	sandra, yes - i hadn't given thought to all the information that's leaked in the server certificate regarding hosts. it's almost like ssl/tls was designed for maximum visibility to snoopers.
2020-09-09 20:59:03	kevinsan	gemini had (has) the opportunity to remedy this to some extent by accepting there's no authenticity beyond tofu, but there's strong encryption regardless.
2020-09-09 21:08:37		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-09 21:14:08	griffin	I'm having trouble connecting to my host via elpher, but can connect with other clients. If anyone has a moment to help, I'd appreciate if you could try going to gemini://gmb.is and let me know if it is working for you (regardless of your client, but particularly if you're using elpher)
2020-09-09 21:15:10		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-09 21:25:20		paulgorman has quit (quit: nyaa~)
2020-09-09 21:35:24	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 21:46:31	kevinsan	griffin, kristall fails, openssl s_client fails, amfora succeeds
2020-09-09 21:46:52	kevinsan	Geminaut succeeds
2020-09-09 21:47:35	kevinsan	av-98 fails
2020-09-09 21:52:00	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 21:52:09	kevinsan	update: openssl s_client and AV-98 now works: did you change anything?
2020-09-09 21:52:17	griffin	I did not :/
2020-09-09 21:53:04	kevinsan	maybe your certificate needed to warm up to temperature for maximum efficiency :)
2020-09-09 21:54:38	griffin	Lol. That's gotta be it
2020-09-09 21:55:19	kevinsan	did you do any recent dns changes or somesuch?
2020-09-09 21:56:11	griffin	I did not. I'm poking through the errors now to see if anything stands out
2020-09-09 21:57:18	kevinsan	what I notice is that if there's no trailing slash e.g. gemini://gmb.is then it fails in Kristall
2020-09-09 21:57:40	kevinsan	but if I add one gemini://gmb.is/ then it succeeds. what server are you using?
2020-09-09 21:58:00	griffin	One I wrote :P
2020-09-09 21:58:32	kevinsan	ok, so if you receive a request for a directory without a trailing slash, you should really redirect to the directory with a trailing slash
2020-09-09 22:01:14	▬▬▶	parker has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 22:01:26	kevinsan	griffin, out of interest, what language are you using for your server?
2020-09-09 22:01:58	griffin	Yeah, that's definitely a bug to fix
2020-09-09 22:02:10	griffin	Racket!
2020-09-09 22:15:08	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 22:38:33	kevinsan	xq, re: those last few lines in chat - there was no problem with Kristall, it was a server issue.
2020-09-09 22:59:08		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-09 23:05:23		paulgorman has quit (quit: nyaa~)
2020-09-09 23:08:58	griffin	Looks like the error I'm getting with elpher is configuration related - as in, it only seems to be a problem with doom emacs, and the TLS configuration generally seems to be correct. Thanks for the help kevinsan, especially since it uncovered the separate dispatch bug :)
2020-09-09 23:13:09	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 23:19:20	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 23:20:28		paulgorman has quit (quit: nyaa~)
2020-09-09 23:21:10	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 23:25:11		paulgorman has quit (quit: nyaa~)
2020-09-09 23:25:15	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-09-09 23:27:57	kevinsan	np :)
2020-09-10 00:07:17		alex11 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-10 00:37:22		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 00:58:47		tastytea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 01:14:25	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 01:14:31	ℹ 	alex1138 is now known as alex11
2020-09-10 01:39:21		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-10 02:05:33		dctrud has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-10 02:38:15	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 04:10:26	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 05:49:18	sandra	kevinsan: Checking if two addresses have the same host is easy of course (same IP) but finding a whole list is next lev.
2020-09-10 06:20:25		parker has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-10 08:02:19	epoch	> how to prevent changing the content
2020-09-10 08:02:32	epoch	pgp clear-sign the messages?
2020-09-10 08:03:05	epoch	then when you "follow" someone, you download their public key
2020-09-10 08:03:38	epoch	content of message includes a copy of the non-changing metadata that goes with the post.
2020-09-10 08:05:45		nalaph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 08:07:00	▬▬▶	nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 10:05:31	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 10:20:16		dokuja has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 10:23:33	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 11:07:49		CommunistWolf has quit (quit: The cause of labour is the hope of the world)
2020-09-10 11:10:11	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 11:49:50		mhj has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-10 13:30:13	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 13:55:33	felix	It needed a while, but my second capsule is taking shape.
2020-09-10 13:56:24	idf	nice
2020-09-10 14:01:26	felix	And how are you?
2020-09-10 14:03:55	idf	i'm fine, just finished my chores, thx for asking
2020-09-10 14:04:19	idf	wby
2020-09-10 14:14:35		tildebot has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-10 14:14:50	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 14:16:49		tildebot has quit (RecvQ exceeded)
2020-09-10 14:25:51	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 14:27:40		tildebot has quit (RecvQ exceeded)
2020-09-10 14:33:00	login	idf: who gave you those chores?
2020-09-10 14:33:54	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 14:34:11	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-10 14:37:18	mhj	Heylo~
2020-09-10 14:40:58	mhj	How're ya felix
2020-09-10 14:41:19	felix	I'm good! Was just bragging about my other capsule taking shape.
2020-09-10 14:41:22	felix	And you?
2020-09-10 14:43:00	mhj	I'm good as well! Just got some classwork to do today, but as far as computer stuff goes, I finally setup my Linux system how I want it - except one caveat, I can't seem to get Snapper, which is OpenSUSE's BTRFS filesystem snapshot utility to work.
2020-09-10 14:44:18	mhj	What about your capsule? Sounds awesome :D
2020-09-10 14:45:00	felix	It's just the one I started over on Flounder.
2020-09-10 14:46:23	mhj	Sorry, I'm not distinctly familier with these terms. What is Flounder and what is a capsule in this context? I assume it's a gemini blog on there? Got a link?
2020-09-10 14:46:50	felix	A capsule is what people seem to call sites on Gemini.
2020-09-10 14:47:01	felix	Much like they're called holes on Gopher.
2020-09-10 14:47:05	mhj	Ohhh
2020-09-10 14:47:31	felix	Check out felixp7.flounder.online if you like.
2020-09-10 14:47:38	felix	It's very small and very personal.
2020-09-10 14:48:00	felix	But the service seems to be popular with poets so far.
2020-09-10 14:48:19	mhj	Cool :D
2020-09-10 14:48:32	felix	Thanks! I like the place, and the concept.
2020-09-10 14:52:14	mhj	I'm glad gemini is inspiring us so much~
2020-09-10 14:56:23	felix	That may be the best thing about it.
2020-09-10 15:00:04	mhj	BRB!
2020-09-10 15:16:28	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 15:17:28	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-10 15:34:28		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 15:35:53	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 15:54:32		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 16:20:24	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 16:30:29		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-10 16:33:49		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 16:33:49		epoch has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-10 16:41:29	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 16:52:34		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 16:57:44	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 16:59:34		tildebot has quit (RecvQ exceeded)
2020-09-10 17:08:19	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 17:18:09		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 17:19:38	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 17:49:59	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 17:51:47		tildebot has quit (RecvQ exceeded)
2020-09-10 18:07:26		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 18:17:06	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 18:18:17	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 18:18:58		tildebot has quit (RecvQ exceeded)
2020-09-10 18:19:21		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-10 18:25:12	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 18:27:03		tildebot has quit (RecvQ exceeded)
2020-09-10 18:31:33		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 18:32:08	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 18:38:25	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 18:39:57		tildebot has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-10 18:40:31	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 18:42:23		tildebot has quit (RecvQ exceeded)
2020-09-10 18:47:33	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 18:47:41	lukee	evening all
2020-09-10 18:48:04	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 18:50:52		tildebot has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-10 18:55:07	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 19:01:14	sandra	A SNAFU meant I wasn't seeing the list email so I'm catching up
2020-09-10 19:02:27		lukee has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-10 19:07:54	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 19:08:09		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 19:16:37		lukee has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-10 19:21:50	sandra	Now caught up
2020-09-10 19:23:22	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 19:23:29	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 19:24:53	makeworld	Wow the list has been busy the past few days, gonna have to catch up
2020-09-10 19:25:38	lukee	it goes from feast to famine
2020-09-10 19:37:17	makeworld	Haha
2020-09-10 19:37:22	makeworld	Something like that
2020-09-10 19:37:48	lukee	or maybe from sanity to insanity and back again
2020-09-10 19:59:45	lewiscowper	I only recently joined and it's been a lot to keep up with, but very interesting so far
2020-09-10 20:01:09	lukee	hi there lewiscowper. What is your background and how did you get into Gemini?
2020-09-10 20:01:16	lukee	and welcome!
2020-09-10 20:04:45	sandra	Welcome to Gemini lewiscowper!
2020-09-10 20:05:39	sandra	Caveat lector re me because I've only been here for like ten days but I tend to talk like super authoritatively as if I knew it all. But in reality I wasn't here from the start, I only just showed up, just like you♥
2020-09-10 20:08:41		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 20:17:10	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 20:17:54	lukee	right brain wants it, left brain says you cant handle it: https://www.inputmag.com/design/exclusive-interview-panos-panay-how-surface-duo-transforms-microsoft-again
2020-09-10 20:22:08	kevinsan	ugh, everything microsoft I've used (which to be fair amounts to 3 Windows 10 computers and an xbox one) have generated more rage than a right-wing twitter storm.
2020-09-10 20:22:10	lewiscowper	hi lukee and sandra, I was a web dev for 4-5 years or so, then went into ops, and as far as gemini goes I remember reading a post months ago about having something in between gopherholes and HTML, and I really love the concept of pushing content around the net that could be as useful as markdown was to plain text in terms of allowing some presentational content for clients that
2020-09-10 20:22:12	lewiscowper	support it, without sacrificing the readability of the plain view. I'll stop splurging now, but I'm definitely lurking and looking into where I might be able to help out with some tooling or something.
2020-09-10 20:22:36	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 20:23:29	sandra	That's gonna be great, thank you in advance for that, lewiscowper
2020-09-10 20:25:02	lukee	kevinsan: I hear you, but I find Windows not that bad once you configure the hell out of it. If you get handed one for work and you don't have an admin account, that must drive folks to a state of perpetual perplexitude
2020-09-10 20:25:11	lewiscowper	mostly currently interested in the content syndication discussion, as the discoverability is definitely an issue, and having an "accepted" format that many capsules use would make it easier to share content in a useful way
2020-09-10 20:25:23	lukee	but that would be true of any platform I guess
2020-09-10 20:26:19	lukee	anyway the duo thing is just android. MS hardware is generally not bad
2020-09-10 20:27:02	lukee	so lewiscowper, how are you finding the ultra-sparse text/gemini format?
2020-09-10 20:27:10	kevinsan	lukee, it's practically impossible - Microsoft lost me after Windows 7. "Please wait while we improve your experience." - nooooo thanks :)
2020-09-10 20:27:44	lukee	I hated Windows 7. I held out as long as I could on XP then jumped to 10, fairly happy with it
2020-09-10 20:28:30	kevinsan	curiouser and yet even more curiouser. i think it's your wrong brain that wants it, not your right one!
2020-09-10 20:28:30	lukee	the whole WSL thing they have now is quite good.
2020-09-10 20:29:01	lukee	anyway I dont expect to persuade any non windows people to like windows, that is a fools errand :)
2020-09-10 20:29:39	lukee	the thing that surprises me is lots of devs seem to be abandoning MacOS/Apple these days
2020-09-10 20:29:53	idf	i loved 7 and XP, i hate 10
2020-09-10 20:30:30	lewiscowper	I really like writing it, although I did have some confusion with how links were talked about in the getting started guide as "you can now put them in text instead of at the end, but didn't really get that that still meant, they need to be on their own lines, they just aren't all stacked at the bottom. But generally I find it very comfortable to write in, coming from writing a fair
2020-09-10 20:30:31	kevinsan	I grew up on windows, so it was like watching grandpappy turn into a mobster.
2020-09-10 20:30:32	lewiscowper	amount of markdown over the last few years
2020-09-10 20:31:13	lukee	its got some obvious Markdown genes in it
2020-09-10 20:31:17	epoch	hrm... webfinger over gemini should work.
2020-09-10 20:31:33	idf	yea but the best part is that all the parsing is done by just checking the first characters of a line, so easy lol
2020-09-10 20:31:49	idf	i mean easier than having to write a parser
2020-09-10 20:32:07	idf	like HTML, XML etc
2020-09-10 20:32:38	lewiscowper	I'm somewhat tempted by trying to play with seeing whether something like this would work over gemini https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2018/06/how-to-implement-a-basic-activitypub-server/
2020-09-10 20:32:53	lukee	It is the beautiful yet diminutive love child of Markdown and Gophermaps
2020-09-10 20:32:54	epoch	webfinger is only supposed to be run over a secure socket, and gemini qualifies for that. :P
2020-09-10 20:32:56	epoch	brb
2020-09-10 20:33:01	lewiscowper	that would be really neat
2020-09-10 20:33:57	kevinsan	lewiscowper, remember to submit your URL to GUS (do you have a URL yet?)
2020-09-10 20:33:57	lukee	kevinsan: its the right brain that wants the shiny toy, the left brain says I cant handle it
2020-09-10 20:34:33	lewiscowper	lukee: yeah, I see that now, but I discovered gopher about a day or two before discovering Gemini, and gemini sounded far more exciting. From that post I'm definitely wondering whether protocol wise there should be some accepted things to have in a capsule's /.well-known directory
2020-09-10 20:34:51	lewiscowper	kevinsan: I do have a URL that does not a lot right now, but I'm trying to keep pushing content to it
2020-09-10 20:34:55	kevinsan	i know lukee, I was joking on the wrongheadedness of microsoft :)
2020-09-10 20:34:58	lukee	nah, just put whatever in it you like
2020-09-10 20:35:20	lukee	thats the fun of it
2020-09-10 20:35:31	xj9	lukee you read my mind
2020-09-10 20:35:42	lewiscowper	will need to go and figure out how to do GUS submission, I am familiar with GUS though, so that's taken some of the difficulty out of finding it
2020-09-10 20:35:49	kevinsan	yup, mine's a disorganised mess, but I wrote a script to generate a sitemap for me, which helps me not forget stuff
2020-09-10 20:36:12	xj9	oh heck i forgot i was writing a sitemap script
2020-09-10 20:36:13	kevinsan	gemini://gus.guru/add-seed
2020-09-10 20:37:03	lewiscowper	oh wait, that was an issue I had with GUS, I'm using bombadillo as a client and I keep trying to go to some capsules, apparently gus is one of them, and I get a cert validation error that the host doesn't match
2020-09-10 20:37:04	kevinsan	xj9, you maybe suffer the same recursive-project-starting-syndrome as me.
2020-09-10 20:37:16	xj9	i definitely have that
2020-09-10 20:37:28	lewiscowper	I assume that's something client based, but it feels like a weird one
2020-09-10 20:38:14	xj9	i've been fighting the temptation to port my build system from redo to mk and getting super distracted along the way
2020-09-10 20:39:28	lewiscowper	what clients do people use (I'm on Linux, ideally want something terminal based, and really ideally something that might handle gopher + gemini + maybe have a way to open lynx from a capsule/gopherhole)
2020-09-10 20:39:36	lukee	lewiscooper: gemini://gus.guru works for me
2020-09-10 20:39:52	xj9	amfora/kristall
2020-09-10 20:40:03	lewiscowper	lukee: on bombadillo?
2020-09-10 20:40:06	xj9	av98 sometimes
2020-09-10 20:40:16	lewiscowper	maybe I've got to install some extra certificates package or something
2020-09-10 20:40:18	lukee	no, I'm using GemiNaut
2020-09-10 20:40:29	lukee	which does gopher, but not for linux yet
2020-09-10 20:40:33	lewiscowper	oh no, they're all installed
2020-09-10 20:40:38	xj9	i want to write one for inferno/acme
2020-09-10 20:41:33	xj9	although, i've also been tempted to add gemini support to charon
2020-09-10 20:41:45	lukee	lewiscowper: gus.guru works in amfora which is a nice terminal client
2020-09-10 20:43:09	lewiscowper	building that now :)
2020-09-10 20:44:15	lukee	bonus: the author, makeworld often hangs around on this channel
2020-09-10 20:44:32	lewiscowper	:) nice
2020-09-10 20:44:53	lewiscowper	when you add a gemini URL to GUS, should you add the protocol? I did but I feel like I might have done it wrong
2020-09-10 20:45:12	lukee	its fine if you do, probably fine if you dont
2020-09-10 20:46:10	lukee	but you have to submit it here first :)
2020-09-10 20:46:56	lewiscowper	gemini://tilde.club/~lewiscowper/ :)
2020-09-10 20:46:57	lukee	this is the Gemini electric firehose
2020-09-10 20:48:00	lewiscowper	nothing too exciting, going to try out some things over the next few weeknights/weekends though, this looks super cool gemini://80h.dev/projects/gemgit/
2020-09-10 20:49:30		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 20:50:21	lukee	well it looks good to me - https://imgur.com/a/TzbIQPS
2020-09-10 20:50:34	lukee	make sure to share your feed with Capcom if you havent already
2020-09-10 20:51:19	lewiscowper	that I don't know how to do, I found a git repo for capcom and a python script, and I thought it was a feed reader
2020-09-10 20:51:34	lewiscowper	but I don't understand why I'd share my feed with capcom if it was a purely client side feed reader
2020-09-10 20:51:42	lewiscowper	if that makes sense(?)
2020-09-10 20:52:16	lukee	the main hosted Capcom instance is a public aggregator (you can run your own if you want)
2020-09-10 20:52:36	lukee	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/
2020-09-10 20:52:40	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 20:53:03	lukee	you just email solderpunk with your feed url. So you'll need to serve the Atom over gemini
2020-09-10 20:53:36	lukee	its one of the main sources of updates/news we all go to
2020-09-10 20:54:45	lewiscowper	ahhhh
2020-09-10 20:54:50	lewiscowper	that makes a lot more sense then
2020-09-10 20:54:59	lewiscowper	I wasn't actually sure if I could do atom over gemini
2020-09-10 20:55:03	lewiscowper	but I shall make that happen
2020-09-10 20:56:23	lewiscowper	turns out I can and now do
2020-09-10 20:56:33	kevinsan	lewiscowper, love the 8bit thing you're building. that's going to be fun!
2020-09-10 20:57:31	lewiscowper	kevinsan: most if not all of the parts have now arrived, but as they're technically birthday gifts from my other half, I can't open them and start building for another 5-6 weeks
2020-09-10 20:57:44	lewiscowper	so I'm trying not to think about them too much right now :D
2020-09-10 20:58:15	kevinsan	that's going to hurt - at least you've got a whole lot of other new stuff to be thinking about.
2020-09-10 21:00:18	lewiscowper	well indeed, I'm very much all or nothing in terms of projects. Alongside the 8bit computer, there's a VR headset, raspi clusters, gemini, activitypub, operating system, and text editor.
2020-09-10 21:01:43	kevinsan	i want to do something like the 8-bit and make it wall mounted as a sort of interactive art. I find ALUs are a great ice-breaker with dinner party guests
2020-09-10 21:02:12	lewiscowper	I've seen a few of that kit done as a wall mount
2020-09-10 21:02:17	⚡	kevinsan doesn't really do the dinner party thing, i feel compelled to point out.
2020-09-10 21:02:19	lewiscowper	so that's definitely a possibility
2020-09-10 21:02:37	lewiscowper	(I'm not sure if anyone does dinner parties tbh, especially during covid times)
2020-09-10 21:03:50	lewiscowper	but yes, I'm definitely monopolising conversation with entirely not gemini relevant content, so I'll stop side tracking things for now
2020-09-10 21:06:36	lukee	we do get a bit side tracked on this channel sometimes, the culture doesnt seem to be authoritarian about it
2020-09-10 21:06:41	lukee	which is great
2020-09-10 21:19:14	lukee	I'm calling it a night here - catch up with you all some time soon o/
2020-09-10 21:19:26		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-10 21:26:19	omni	https://boyter.org/static/books/new3.png
2020-09-10 21:46:30	kevinsan	omni, kinda funny though it's only an issue at all because everyone's tracking you. if nothing else, it raises awareness (though largely to people who fgaf)
2020-09-10 21:47:07	kevinsan	s/fgaf/dgaf/ if course
2020-09-10 21:47:32	kevinsan	s/if/of/ jeez
2020-09-10 22:43:57		mhj has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-10 22:46:09	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 22:58:22	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-10 23:22:39		mhj has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-10 23:39:06		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 23:46:39		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-10 23:46:56	easeout	wow the mailing list has been hopping
2020-09-10 23:53:55	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 00:35:05		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 00:35:08	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 00:47:49	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 01:12:44		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 01:13:02	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 01:14:43	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 01:25:19	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 01:26:22	@tomasino	hop hop
2020-09-11 01:29:23		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 01:35:29	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 01:43:35		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 01:43:40	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 01:51:50		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 01:52:39	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 02:06:35	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 02:11:11	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 02:13:06		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-11 02:13:19	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 02:16:51		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 02:16:54	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 02:56:47		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-11 03:06:29		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-11 03:23:34	▬▬▶	adiabatic has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 03:32:23		adiabatic has quit (quit: Leaving…)
2020-09-11 04:27:49		awalvie has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-11 07:18:36	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 10:04:20		jlj has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		patrick has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		caranatar has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		bacterio has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		lel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		tildebeast has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		jns has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		kvothe has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		tiwesdaeg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		kayw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		benoliver999 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		lrb has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		doppler has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		g has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		xfnw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		tildebot has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		rak has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		CoopDot has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		thombles has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		calmbit has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		gbmor has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		paper__ has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:20		emily has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		siina has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		lucidiot has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		Sario has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		vee has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		wgreenhouse has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		bandali has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		Gemino has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		creme has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		dodolz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		calamitous has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		anton|pw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		rmgr has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		CommunistWolf has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		wingy has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		lewiscowper has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		kevinsan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		enpo has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		nalaph has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		tastytea has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		michel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		makeworld has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		krjst has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		kline has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		bard has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		ehmry has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		Sario528 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		m68k has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		alex11 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		nikita has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		Cadey has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		wangofett has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		cel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		moody has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		exprez135 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		login has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		mozz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		paper_ has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		admicos has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		rjt_znc has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		flexibeast has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		appll has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		xq has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		cyrus has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		sandra has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		idf has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		paper has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		jan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		julienxx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		pentangle has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		gohan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		Ekkie has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:21		omni has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-11 10:04:31	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	thombles has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	emily has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	lrb has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	paper__ has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:14:51	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 11:51:17		wgreenhouse has quit (quit:)
2020-09-11 12:41:53	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 12:54:42	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	moody has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:03:51	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 13:04:15	ℹ 	wallet is now known as Guest10083
2020-09-11 13:10:48	ℹ 	Guest10083 is now known as wallet
2020-09-11 13:10:55		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-11 13:11:25	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 14:10:50		tildebot has quit (quit: Stopping)
2020-09-11 14:18:34	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 14:45:11		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-11 15:20:43	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 16:08:10		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 16:08:14		griffin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 16:08:23	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 16:08:29	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 16:23:45	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 16:28:52	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-11 16:29:11	companion_cube	👋
2020-09-11 16:30:21	mhj	Yo~
2020-09-11 16:30:49	@tomasino	hija
2020-09-11 16:32:27	mhj	Figured out what to do in regards to my NixOS install. I have almost everything working except Virtualbox, but as far as a backup solution, I am thinking of sometimes snapshotting my home and root dirs(I use btrfs) and then compressing the snapshot dirs and sending them over nfs to a raspberry pi. Hopefully I can make it work out somehow!
2020-09-11 16:33:01	@tomasino	yeah, could work
2020-09-11 16:33:08	@tomasino	or just a differential rsync
2020-09-11 16:33:20	mhj	True
2020-09-11 16:35:25	mhj	What are y'alls backup solutions?
2020-09-11 16:35:37	@tomasino	i have a few things
2020-09-11 16:35:54	@tomasino	i have some stuff in a spideroak one backup
2020-09-11 16:36:00	@tomasino	some nonsense bs i don't care about in dropbox
2020-09-11 16:36:16	@tomasino	and i use syncthing to maintain some things between my machines and my personal vps
2020-09-11 16:36:35	@tomasino	and then i have pcloud with a 2TB lifetime plan
2020-09-11 16:36:44	@tomasino	i shove big media stuff into there that needs backup
2020-09-11 16:37:11	@tomasino	i ran tarsnap for a while, but i realized i have almost everything covered in these other services already and they're all free now (pcloud lifetime being already paid)
2020-09-11 16:37:37	@tomasino	my software and dotfiles are in git
2020-09-11 16:37:44	@tomasino	my git repos are mirrored on multiple remotes
2020-09-11 16:37:47	mhj	Oh nice, looks like you run the gamut in regards to backups
2020-09-11 16:37:57	@tomasino	yep yep
2020-09-11 16:38:13	@tomasino	i used backblaze once upon a time too
2020-09-11 16:38:19	@tomasino	and something else similar to that
2020-09-11 16:38:23	@tomasino	but that was on a windows system
2020-09-11 16:38:33	@tomasino	harder to configure smart backup stuff there
2020-09-11 16:39:37	mhj	Totally agreed. I need to think of how to backup my gemini stuff once I start expanding it. I'm thinking of just doing ssh and rsync or just tar'ing everything lol
2020-09-11 16:43:46	@tomasino	my gemini stuff is just in a git repo on tildegit
2020-09-11 16:44:56	mhj	You mean your gemini software or even your blog entries?
2020-09-11 16:46:04	@tomasino	just the entries
2020-09-11 16:46:09	@tomasino	i haven't written any software for gemini
2020-09-11 16:46:49	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/tomasino/gemspace
2020-09-11 16:48:38	xj9	i have a raidz6 nas which used to backup to b2, but i haven't done an offsite backup in a while.
2020-09-11 16:49:33	xj9	zfs does snapshots periodically and i push stuff off of my other systems over rsync
2020-09-11 16:49:40	xj9	really terrible backup solutions honestly
2020-09-11 16:51:14	kevinsan	borg backup is amazing. it's more commands to learn, but I think worth it.
2020-09-11 16:51:28	xj9	i have dabbled in borg
2020-09-11 16:51:40	companion_cube	borg is cool, esp. with borgmatic
2020-09-11 16:51:51	kevinsan	i took a couple of attempts to grok it
2020-09-11 16:52:09	xj9	i should give it another go, backups matter
2020-09-11 16:52:44	kevinsan	once you have it down, jot your borg commands in geminispace so you can refer back to them.
2020-09-11 16:52:44	xj9	i just wanna venti honestly, but i'm still working on my 9chops
2020-09-11 16:53:04	xj9	good idea
2020-09-11 16:53:10	companion_cube	I'd venti but I'm latte
2020-09-11 16:53:14	kevinsan	that's the problem with backup stuff - if it's good, you tinker with it so rarely that memories fade
2020-09-11 16:55:24	@tomasino	mmm, kaffi
2020-09-11 16:55:25	@tomasino	it's time
2020-09-11 17:18:58	mhj	Hmm, a gemini client and server for plan9 and 9grid. GeminiFS?
2020-09-11 17:19:12	mhj	Or 9Gem
2020-09-11 17:20:28	felix	There isn't any yet?
2020-09-11 17:21:16	@tomasino	i think TLS was the barrier
2020-09-11 17:23:08	xj9	i have an inferno fork/distro that i've been hacking on very slowly. thinking about making libsec into a wrapper around libressl..
2020-09-11 17:24:12	xj9	i was looking for an embedded-style tls library, but i couldn't find anything that was permissive licensed or public domain
2020-09-11 17:24:17	▬▬▶	klu_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 17:25:08	xj9	i thought i saw a geminifs project in go somewhere?
2020-09-11 17:32:35	mhj	Yeah I thought I heard about a GeminiFS too, but I think that only on the mailing list lol
2020-09-11 18:23:33	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 18:27:11		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-11 18:27:23		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 18:28:43	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 18:43:26	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 18:44:41	⚡	lukee punches his ticket for another day in the gemini maelstrom
2020-09-11 18:59:46		paper has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-09-11 18:59:48	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 19:45:08		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 19:48:23		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 19:49:25	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 19:49:38	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 20:03:36		paper has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-11 20:05:36		paper_ has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-11 20:07:20	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 20:16:56	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 20:55:16	ℹ 	paper is now known as paper1
2020-09-11 20:55:22	ℹ 	paper_ is now known as paper
2020-09-11 21:09:18		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 21:09:36		paper has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 21:24:24		lewiscowper has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-11 21:48:25	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 21:53:10		lewiscowper has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-11 21:53:29	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-11 22:25:50		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 23:03:28		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 23:04:43		kvothe has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-11 23:33:29	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 00:05:31	▬▬▶	kline has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 00:51:49	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 01:07:56		mhj has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-12 01:48:06	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 03:21:33	▬▬▶	fleeky_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 03:21:52		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-12 06:51:44	▬▬▶	bouncepaw has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 06:52:47	bouncepaw	wow, so many names i recognize in the member list. Greetings
2020-09-12 07:11:42	login	greetings bouncepaw
2020-09-12 09:12:18		flexibeast has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-12 09:50:14	@tomasino	Hi hi
2020-09-12 10:39:19	CoopDot	I'm thinking of how to make sure people kan read my documents if I'm using unusual characters. Suggesting people to install a font I provide might not be good enough
2020-09-12 10:39:42	bouncepaw	it depends on what you call unusual characters
2020-09-12 10:41:26	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 10:43:42	bouncepaw	If you're willing to use something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConScript_Unicode_Registry then suggesting installing a font seems to be the only option. On the web you can force installing it though. Magic of the www as is.
2020-09-12 10:44:11	CoopDot	Things in the Basic Multilingual Plane not commonly used
2020-09-12 10:45:59	bouncepaw	Yeah, there are some things in that plane that are not present in most fonts. What about using images?
2020-09-12 10:50:47	bouncepaw	What is more popular nowadays? Gemini or gopher?
2020-09-12 10:56:55	kevinsan	https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?=gopher.floodgap.com+70+302f76322f7673746174
2020-09-12 10:57:24	kevinsan	5792943 unique and verified selectors, 347 unique servers
2020-09-12 10:58:44	kevinsan	gemini://gus.guru/statistics GUS: 36001 pages, 218 domains
2020-09-12 10:58:59	@tomasino	remarkable
2020-09-12 11:00:21	kevinsan	In 2012, Veronica reported 2.5 million selectors, over 160 servers
2020-09-12 11:00:52	kevinsan	so gopher has grown quite a lot in 8 years. what's interesting is there's more content per gopher server, by a long way
2020-09-12 11:01:29	bouncepaw	amount of servers means nothing. Gopher has been around for a really long time, it sure has more servers. Amount of //active// servers is what matters
2020-09-12 11:01:44	bouncepaw	is there a way to count active servers?
2020-09-12 11:02:28	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 11:02:40	lukee	hi folks o/
2020-09-12 11:02:44	bouncepaw	oh wait, amount of active servers doesn't mean much too because many (ph/gem)loggers post their content on the same servers
2020-09-12 11:02:48	bouncepaw	hi lukee
2020-09-12 11:03:01	lukee	hi bouncepaw
2020-09-12 11:03:17	kevinsan	growth of a few million docs and a couple hundred servers is not so remarkable - what is is that it's on the up, not down
2020-09-12 11:03:23	kevinsan	hi lukee and all
2020-09-12 11:03:27	lukee	hiya
2020-09-12 11:04:37	kevinsan	i'm heartened by growth in all this stuff - i don't care at all what 'wins' out. i think if there's ever a time to ditch ego and competitive thinking, it's right now!
2020-09-12 11:04:39	lukee	there's a lot of tumbleweed in gopherspace
2020-09-12 11:05:05	kevinsan	yes lukee that's what i noticed.
2020-09-12 11:05:27	bouncepaw	there's some tumbleweed in geminisphere too :-)
2020-09-12 11:05:30	kevinsan	i also notice a lot of early web syndrome in gemini space where everyone gets writer;s block
2020-09-12 11:05:40	@tomasino	content content content!
2020-09-12 11:05:48	lukee	like a ghost town, but there is one shop open with a sign on the door saying "back soon"
2020-09-12 11:05:58	kevinsan	not everyone - sometimes you see a few words, then a few paragraphs, then the latest post is an essay :)
2020-09-12 11:06:16	bouncepaw	writer's block is the best thing that may happen to a site imho
2020-09-12 11:06:30	lukee	it is funny how it seems to go in waves - quite for a while then all of a sudden the slumbering beast is awoken
2020-09-12 11:06:55	kevinsan	lukee, it seems like that, but it's just down to ratios - if you could identify just the good pages, then you'd probably view it differently
2020-09-12 11:07:04	bouncepaw	btw what is the difference between essay, article and post? I use them interchangeably but I'm not sure
2020-09-12 11:07:35	lukee	they overlap for sure. I think of a post as something generic, but could be short
2020-09-12 11:07:37	kevinsan	bouncepaw, nothing. it's all just words
2020-09-12 11:07:58	lukee	an essay or article is perhaps longer
2020-09-12 11:08:17	@tomasino	from the search engine: "Article is a piece of writing that is included with others in a newspaper, magazine or other publication. Essay is a short piece of writing on a particular subject. Article is written to inform the readers about some concept. Essay is generally written as a response to a question or proposition."
2020-09-12 11:08:21	bouncepaw	yeah I feel the same, essay and article must be longer. But how longer?
2020-09-12 11:08:32	lukee	kevinsan: yes finding the "good" stuff is always a challenge in any art form
2020-09-12 11:08:44	bouncepaw	What is short nowadays?
2020-09-12 11:08:46	lukee	as long as you want.
2020-09-12 11:09:13	lukee	I think from the days of literary essays, they would come in at a few pages
2020-09-12 11:09:31	@tomasino	some essays are short-story size
2020-09-12 11:09:38	kevinsan	i started a project that i was going to apply some heuristics on pages to figure out their level of readable content
2020-09-12 11:09:40	lukee	but no one is keeping a word count
2020-09-12 11:09:56	kevinsan	i want to use spacy to do some analysis and provide more meaningful search
2020-09-12 11:10:13	@tomasino	if you hit up the essay's section in your book store or library, they are either bundled into sets at novel size or very long stand-alone ones
2020-09-12 11:10:24	lukee	kevinsan: are you looking at web pages, or plain text?
2020-09-12 11:10:40	@tomasino	in school essays are usually a few pages
2020-09-12 11:10:48	@tomasino	teachers don't have time for all that reading
2020-09-12 11:10:49	kevinsan	i want to do it in geminispace, but the thinking came from the web search engine I did
2020-09-12 11:11:24	lukee	certainly there is a general problem with web pages that with many you need to strip out the navigational cruft
2020-09-12 11:11:32	@tomasino	i've got some stuff on my gemini space that's long for gemini. Not several hundred pages long, but several pages
2020-09-12 11:11:50	lukee	tomasino - why is that too long for gemini?
2020-09-12 11:12:15	@tomasino	not too long, just long
2020-09-12 11:12:16	lukee	Especially given you can use headings to provide structure (if it is that kind of thing)
2020-09-12 11:12:18	@tomasino	longer than average
2020-09-12 11:12:27	lukee	I say bring it on
2020-09-12 11:12:47	@tomasino	i'm probably due for another superman essay soon
2020-09-12 11:13:19	bouncepaw	There are books served at Tanelorn: gemini://tanelorn.city/library/index.gemini
2020-09-12 11:13:30	bouncepaw	a whole library! Isn't it epic?
2020-09-12 11:13:40	bouncepaw	I doubt anyone reads it though
2020-09-12 11:14:02	@tomasino	starbreaker has long stuff too
2020-09-12 11:14:07	lukee	the lovely thing with Gemini is the formatting is so light, you can just always know it will print out fine
2020-09-12 11:14:14	@tomasino	stories!
2020-09-12 11:14:26	lukee	if you want to curly up in front of the fire with a long form piece of writing
2020-09-12 11:14:29	@tomasino	an of course there's cosmic voyage now on gemini
2020-09-12 11:14:33	kevinsan	bouncepaw, that's interesting, thanks
2020-09-12 11:14:34	lukee	curly -> curl
2020-09-12 11:14:43	@tomasino	i started a new outpost story on there yesterday. SNCF68B
2020-09-12 11:14:51	kevinsan	lukee, clients now need page-relative bookmarks :)
2020-09-12 11:14:55	@tomasino	fun fact: that was my Prodigy ID as a kid
2020-09-12 11:15:10	lukee	someone was mentioning (Cadey?) about sending gemini to an ebook reader
2020-09-12 11:15:37	@tomasino	yeah
2020-09-12 11:15:52	kevinsan	that would be useful when there's a lot more gemini-sourced content (a la tomasino, for example)
2020-09-12 11:16:05	@tomasino	if you do your own atom feed aggregator you can run through it, gem-curl down everything and pandoc it into an ebook file
2020-09-12 11:16:12	kevinsan	but otherwise, I'd just get the original ebook that was converted to gemtext
2020-09-12 11:16:22	lukee	kevinsan: I would be on for it. We just need a convention about them
2020-09-12 11:16:46	lukee	And frankly I'm not sure I have the energy to go to the ML with another Gemini proposal for a while
2020-09-12 11:16:53	Cadey	h
2020-09-12 11:16:56	lukee	so maybe later
2020-09-12 11:17:03	@tomasino	just avoid talking about text formatting and the ML is very friendly
2020-09-12 11:17:08	@tomasino	heya Cadey 
2020-09-12 11:17:11	@tomasino	how's stuffs?
2020-09-12 11:17:25	kevinsan	lukee, just remembering the last position in a page would be enough for a book (i only ever need one bookmark per book)
2020-09-12 11:17:33	Cadey	been finally able to type decently
2020-09-12 11:18:02	lukee	kevinsan: Oh I see, not trying to solve the "shareable with other people" bookmarks problem then
2020-09-12 11:18:17	@tomasino	oh very nice!
2020-09-12 11:18:22	@tomasino	congratulations
2020-09-12 11:18:25	kevinsan	nope, selfish to a fault :)  just local bookmarks
2020-09-12 11:18:45	lukee	but it would be good to have a convention for that
2020-09-12 11:18:46	Cadey	done some interviews for the company i work for
2020-09-12 11:18:53	lukee	oh hang on, conventions are apparently evil
2020-09-12 11:18:58	Cadey	nobody warned me it can be soul crushing lol
2020-09-12 11:19:05	kevinsan	lukee, don't be childish
2020-09-12 11:19:14	lukee	:)
2020-09-12 11:19:29	lukee	I'm chuckling here...
2020-09-12 11:19:46	kevinsan	Cadey, are you learning to touch type, or recovering from an injury?
2020-09-12 11:20:01	Cadey	learning to touch type colemak
2020-09-12 11:20:15	kevinsan	is colemak a key layout?
2020-09-12 11:20:18	Cadey	yeah
2020-09-12 11:20:29	Cadey	https://colemak.com/Learn
2020-09-12 11:20:34	kevinsan	you're hardcore. i'm impressed
2020-09-12 11:20:53	bouncepaw	hardcore is creating your own layout
2020-09-12 11:21:00	Cadey	i thought i was cadey
2020-09-12 11:21:01	kevinsan	but not as impressed as I am with lukee, who makes lutes! hard to top that one
2020-09-12 11:21:36	@tomasino	i was pretty excited to be a part of the interview process until I actually was a part of the interview process
2020-09-12 11:21:39	Cadey	also considering learning steno
2020-09-12 11:22:12	Cadey	tomasino: after a really bad interview a candidate tried to stroke my ego
2020-09-12 11:22:25	Cadey	that pushed me from no to very no
2020-09-12 11:22:30	@tomasino	nice! i went down that rabbit hole a couple years ago, but backed off in favor of focusing on electronics hobby stuff
2020-09-12 11:22:37	bouncepaw	i do not recommend learning steno. The process is long, expensive and not really worth it unless you want to be a stenographer. Consider a proper ergokeeb if you don't have it already
2020-09-12 11:22:43	bouncepaw	https://kle.klava.org/#/gists/5722ae3ff22ae2ea6685f39b8f2a472f my keeb layout
2020-09-12 11:23:44	@tomasino	there's some nice steno-training games out there if you do decide to try it out. It's easier with a properly shaped keyboard
2020-09-12 11:24:05	@tomasino	and lots of good stuff at the open steno project
2020-09-12 11:24:19	@tomasino	but hooray for Colemak improvements
2020-09-12 11:24:22	@tomasino	that's a great feeling
2020-09-12 11:24:29	Cadey	i may end up not doing it, but it looks like it's nice for writing novels
2020-09-12 11:25:13	@tomasino	saw a talk once on a guy that used steno + vim
2020-09-12 11:25:23	@tomasino	it was highly confusing but he was unbelievably fast
2020-09-12 11:26:11	bouncepaw	btw there're no good open steno projects for many languages. For Russian, for example, there is none :-(
2020-09-12 11:26:30	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuVUGKBOp9Q
2020-09-12 11:26:34	bouncepaw	the problem with steno is that it's inseparable from language
2020-09-12 11:27:42	lukee	got to go for now - see you later o/
2020-09-12 11:27:50		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-12 11:27:54	Cadey	bouncepaw: it's phonetic yeah
2020-09-12 11:28:19	@tomasino	ciao!
2020-09-12 11:30:00	bouncepaw	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LchMhXH5n4I btw check out me typing some text. I myself don't like how my fingers move and I don't think I'm fast but many people are amazed
2020-09-12 11:31:50	@tomasino	since i use dvorak my coworkers joke that i just put my hands ot the keyboard and stuff comes out without me moving my hands
2020-09-12 11:32:11	Cadey	lol
2020-09-12 11:32:47	@tomasino	but i'm not really any faster than i was with qwerty
2020-09-12 11:33:16	@tomasino	my fastest period was when i was working doing dictation as a temp job, but that was just from practice practice practice
2020-09-12 11:33:38	bouncepaw	that's expected. Letter layouts have very little to do with speed. But they do impact comfort
2020-09-12 11:33:55	@tomasino	steno would have been a good thing to know during the dictation days, but it was an awful job
2020-09-12 11:34:06	@tomasino	had to concentrate the entire time on what was being said. can't daydream
2020-09-12 11:36:52		bouncepaw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-12 11:45:32	▬▬▶	bouncepaw has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 12:27:22	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 12:32:10	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 12:34:08	felix	Hello!
2020-09-12 12:37:47	idf	hi
2020-09-12 12:39:36	felix	What's new?
2020-09-12 12:41:52	idf	nothing much, i'm trying to setup an IRC bouncer
2020-09-12 12:42:00	idf	so i might leave and rejoin soon
2020-09-12 12:44:47	▬▬▶	idf_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 12:45:05		idf has quit (quit: bouncing)
2020-09-12 12:48:03	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 12:50:43	idf_	hello
2020-09-12 12:50:44	idf_	cool it works :D
2020-09-12 12:54:00	felix	Woo!
2020-09-12 13:00:05		paper__ has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-12 13:01:02	felix	Ha! SDF set up a Gemini server.
2020-09-12 13:02:34	idf_	great news!
2020-09-12 13:02:40	idf_	i remember using SDF a while ago, cool experience
2020-09-12 13:02:44	idf_	i was thinking of joining a tilde
2020-09-12 13:03:30	felix	I joined my first one less than a month ago.
2020-09-12 13:03:53	idf_	how is it
2020-09-12 13:04:05	idf_	like what do you do on a tilde
2020-09-12 13:04:51	felix	Been building up my first Gemini capsule.
2020-09-12 13:05:04	idf_	nice
2020-09-12 13:05:43	felix	And going back to basics with web design.
2020-09-12 13:06:08	felix	Re-learned tmux. Learned Micro properly.
2020-09-12 13:06:23	felix	Got inspired to finish up my line editor.
2020-09-12 13:06:45	idf_	very nice, good luck with your line editor!
2020-09-12 13:06:50	felix	Thanks!
2020-09-12 13:08:56	felix	Only got the docs to finish up now.
2020-09-12 13:09:58	idf_	i was thinking of doing a microemacs as a project
2020-09-12 13:10:05	idf_	i would probably use it over ssh
2020-09-12 13:11:36	felix	Sounds good!
2020-09-12 13:12:05	idf_	thanks
2020-09-12 14:07:47	Cadey	gemini://cetacean.club/journal/09-12-2020-origami-king.gmi
2020-09-12 14:10:32	kevinsan	Cadey, is that server firewalled or down? i'm getting nothing
2020-09-12 14:11:07	felix	Interesting game design critique.
2020-09-12 14:11:59	Cadey	i restarted it, does it work now kevinsan?
2020-09-12 14:12:15	felix	Wait, dammit. I pasted the link in my *web browser* instead.
2020-09-12 14:12:20	felix	Wasn't paying attention.
2020-09-12 14:12:37	Cadey	xD
2020-09-12 14:12:50	felix	Kristall still times out.
2020-09-12 14:13:31	Cadey	this is odd because the HTTP view into that site works
2020-09-12 14:13:56	felix	Yes, exactly.
2020-09-12 14:14:09	felix	Amfora times out too.
2020-09-12 14:14:15	flexibeast	As does elpher.
2020-09-12 14:14:44	kevinsan	sometime gotta face the facts cadey, your site's down ;)
2020-09-12 14:15:09	Cadey	helpfully there's no logs to help me
2020-09-12 14:15:23	kevinsan	strace it?
2020-09-12 14:16:19	felix	Same from ctrl-c.club, so if it's a routing issue it's not near my end.
2020-09-12 14:16:48	Cadey	i don't understand this lol
2020-09-12 14:17:26	felix	Wait, it couldn't be since I loaded the website.
2020-09-12 14:17:39	kevinsan	the server pings ok, port 443's ok, so it's just port 1965
2020-09-12 14:17:40	felix	And I'm 4 hops away from cetacean.club
2020-09-12 14:18:19	Cadey	it seems to be the gemini server itself somehow
2020-09-12 14:18:34	felix	Anyway, never played any of those games, but I get it.
2020-09-12 14:38:05	kvothe	 /away Not here!
2020-09-12 15:18:01		tejr has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-12 15:18:05	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 15:41:50	omni	kevinsan: the tracking issues are part of web unusability
2020-09-12 16:20:43	kevinsan	omni, that's the point I wanted to make. the annoying cookie notices have the one silver lining that people who are oblivious to being tracked get the opportunity to ask what it's about.
2020-09-12 16:21:48	kevinsan	such a small benefit, since explaining why it's bad is a steep uphill (on a unicycle with oval wheels)
2020-09-12 16:37:08	mhj	I prefer to track rather than being tracked @_@
2020-09-12 16:37:43	mhj	By track I mean something like RSS feeds :D
2020-09-12 16:40:52	felix	And nowadays we have to teach people again what newsfeeds are.
2020-09-12 16:41:24	felix	It was a shock to learn that someone I know had no idea what RSS means.
2020-09-12 16:42:08	felix	Soon after that I discovered aboutfeeds.com
2020-09-12 16:44:24	mhj	Huh, never heard of that site
2020-09-12 16:47:08	felix	Word goes around. ;)
2020-09-12 16:49:40	mhj	Speaking of RSS feeds, any recommendations for good tech sites. I need to install Newsboat on here and I forgot most of the RSS feeds I use, so I'm essentially starting over lol
2020-09-12 16:50:31	felix	Lobste.rs and osnews.com for starters.
2020-09-12 16:51:28	mhj	Ah right, those are pretty awesome
2020-09-12 16:52:58	felix	Also dragonflydigest.com has excellent link roundups every Saturday and Sunday.
2020-09-12 16:53:17	felix	At 13:00 UTC.
2020-09-12 16:54:31	mhj	I forgot all about that place, thanks for reminding me :D
2020-09-12 16:55:30	kevinsan	just browsed osnews.com - blood boil moment as I read about Android 11 release, claiming great privacy enhancements(!)
2020-09-12 16:56:28	kevinsan	aaargh! is there no escape from the sh**ty web?
2020-09-12 16:57:37	felix	Wish more sites were mirrored outside of it.
2020-09-12 16:58:00	felix	I recently stumbled across MetaFilter in Veronica 2 search results.
2020-09-12 16:58:09	felix	And promptly started following it.
2020-09-12 16:58:10	kevinsan	ha, that would just make the same crap available over more protocols :)
2020-09-12 16:58:42	felix	Well, it's a start, isn't it.
2020-09-12 16:59:08	felix	Been mirroring some of my own web content in Geminispace, too.
2020-09-12 17:00:00	felix	But not just anything, and not just like that.
2020-09-12 17:00:17	kevinsan	felix, i've been reading some of your stuff - your humour made me laugh (esp. german vs romanian trains)
2020-09-12 17:00:28	felix	Thanks!
2020-09-12 17:00:45	felix	That was prompted by a trip in 2008.
2020-09-12 17:02:34	kevinsan	the poor punctuality of trains being a mitigating factor for all the other failings was particularly funny
2020-09-12 17:04:48	felix	:D
2020-09-12 17:05:15	felix	Well, missing the train would have been a really bad way to start the journey.
2020-09-12 17:05:35	kevinsan	though i don't judge a country by such things, they're often a reflection on poor distribution of wealth and historical exploitation.
2020-09-12 17:06:37	felix	And Germans are happy to complain about their own railways.
2020-09-12 17:09:18	kevinsan	people generally have 'complaint tokens' that they're compelled to spend on a regular basis - or else they explode.
2020-09-12 17:11:17	felix	Heh.
2020-09-12 17:53:31	idf_	cool now i have an emacs function to connect to the bouncer directly
2020-09-12 17:53:42	felix	:D
2020-09-12 17:57:34	mhj	Uploaded my NixOS configuration file to my Gemini blog :D
2020-09-12 17:57:44	idf_	nice!
2020-09-12 17:58:00	idf_	i think i still have a bunch of nixos configuration files on my gitlab
2020-09-12 17:58:00	felix	Good work!
2020-09-12 17:58:15	mhj	Ooh cool
2020-09-12 17:58:27	idf_	i was thinking of installing nixos on my school laptop
2020-09-12 17:58:46	idf_	since we might take our laptops to school because of the situation
2020-09-12 17:59:43	mhj	But recently figured out how to get Steam and Virtualbox working on NixOS. I was declaring too many things for VirtualBox and it was causing collisions, but after just a simple declaration of like "enable_virtualbox_host = true;" and a graphics setting for Steam, everything runs like normal :D
2020-09-12 18:00:08	mhj	Ooh I see, be safe idf_
2020-09-12 18:01:06	mhj	I "needed" virtualbox for DOSBOX, since I like to browse BBSes through telnet lol
2020-09-12 18:01:25	mhj	Er, virtualbox for FreeDOS
2020-09-12 18:01:33	mhj	Since DOS ANSI codes and such
2020-09-12 18:02:20	mhj	I use dosbox for stuff like MechWarrior 2 and SkyRoads lol
2020-09-12 18:06:43	felix	Last DOS game I played extensively was Master of Orion.
2020-09-12 18:07:31	mhj	I've heard good things about that
2020-09-12 18:07:59	felix	It's a classic for a reason.
2020-09-12 18:09:51	felix	MechWarrior 2 was also praised in its day.
2020-09-12 18:14:40	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 18:14:56	felix	Anyway, see you.
2020-09-12 18:15:48	idf_	see ya
2020-09-12 18:16:55	idf_	i really hope they will let us use something other than codeblocks that would be epic
2020-09-12 18:17:35	idf_	normally we would use codeblocks with an ancient version of mingw
2020-09-12 18:17:50		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-12 18:26:31		idf_ has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-12 18:35:16	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 19:29:23		idf has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-09-12 19:31:10	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 19:35:51		bouncepaw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-12 20:24:34	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-09-12 20:40:08	kensanata	I'm brainstorming a kind of click-game that'd be a bit more interesting than Astrobotany. gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/2020-09-12_Play_by_click
2020-09-12 20:45:58	idf	sounds interesting
2020-09-12 20:51:36	easeout	mechwarrior 2 was my absolute jam
2020-09-12 21:20:42	kline	kensanata: sounds like fun
2020-09-12 21:21:19	kline	kensanata: a search for labyrinth ii on gus shows a zork-like navigation game, but as far as i can tell it has no mechanics, its just a bunch of rooms to walk between
2020-09-12 21:24:22	kline	i think its more an exploration of (s?)cgi caps and gemini
2020-09-12 21:25:04	idf	fair
2020-09-12 21:25:13	idf	i really need to do something cool with cgi
2020-09-12 21:46:49		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-12 21:53:28	kevinsan	kensanata, i don't like things dying in these kinds of games - too final, and it adds 'pressure to be there'. i like a mechanic that can survive without me for a while.
2020-09-12 21:54:22	kevinsan	maybe make maslow's hierarchy of needs a model for progression
2020-09-12 21:56:35	kevinsan	the co-operative element is inviting. i wonder if a sort of vote for next steps could be used to increase or decrease chance of failure in a round
2020-09-12 21:58:57	kevinsan	and also that clues to the future might be given e.g. "spies report an empire forming in a distant kingdom", so players might vote to build defenses.
2020-09-12 21:59:41	kevinsan	you could use your narrative skills to tell a story, so as the game progresses a textual description of events would form
2020-09-12 21:59:53	kensanata	kevinsan: I like the idea of rumours giving advance warnings!
2020-09-12 22:00:46	kensanata	Yeah, that's where the idea of the wiki page comes in. The computer adds new info at the bottom, but you as the player can always edit the wiki page, making it more interesting to read, telling a longer story.
2020-09-12 22:02:39	kensanata	I also don't want there to be a pressure to be there. My idea was for the player's village to just continue on its current path on its own. But if there are marauders, the absentee player can't defend the village just like the active player; but the active player can rebuild where as the absentee player's people remain in their reduced state. I think that's sort of fair?
2020-09-12 22:04:01	kevinsan	yes, as long as there's a lower-bound on damage sustained.
2020-09-12 22:04:07	kensanata	Yeah.
2020-09-12 22:04:24	kensanata	Time for bed... leave a comment on the page if there's anything else you'd like me to read later!
2020-09-12 22:04:34	kensanata	Or use mail. :D
2020-09-12 22:05:09	kevinsan	ok, g'night
2020-09-12 22:11:52	makeworld	Any kind soul want to summarize the "A proposed scheme for parsing preformatted alt text" thread for me?
2020-09-12 22:11:55	makeworld	It's a lot to read through
2020-09-12 22:19:28	@tomasino	sure
2020-09-12 22:19:40	kevinsan	some people want to add descriptive text after ```
2020-09-12 22:20:24	@tomasino	^ that is a major use case notably for accessibility
2020-09-12 22:20:33	kevinsan	among them, some want it to be machine readable, some want it to remain useful to humans!
2020-09-12 22:21:06	@tomasino	machine readability mostly for syntax highlighting purposes with programming stuff
2020-09-12 22:21:35	kevinsan	also for table formatting information
2020-09-12 22:22:06	@tomasino	the conflict is that what is good for accessible text for screen readers doesn't easily align with machine parsable
2020-09-12 22:22:25	kevinsan	a whole lot of discussion, so much so that nobody had time to actually write any preformatted blocks themselves :D
2020-09-12 22:22:30	@tomasino	the thread has gone through a number of possible workarounds, changes, extensions, alternatives
2020-09-12 22:22:48	@tomasino	well, i have a lot of preformatted blocks in gemini space already and using alt text
2020-09-12 22:23:03	@tomasino	it's the preformatted blocks with machine parsable examples that were lacking until the last couple emails
2020-09-12 22:23:36	@tomasino	the discussion brought up a number of ideas that don't seem to solve anything so far
2020-09-12 22:24:46	kevinsan	i think there was some consensus that the text had to remain meaningful to people, but i admit i kind of lost track
2020-09-12 22:25:20	@tomasino	of the two desires for that space i think we're at common agreement or near-consensus that the accessibilty needs outweight the other desires
2020-09-12 22:25:27	@tomasino	if there's a way to do both that would be preferred, though
2020-09-12 22:27:47		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-12 23:07:16	makeworld	Thanks!
2020-09-12 23:07:56	@tomasino	i was chatting with the Rhapsode dev on fedi earlier this week and mentioned the ML discussion
2020-09-12 23:08:00	@tomasino	he said he was going to sign up
2020-09-12 23:08:02	@tomasino	i hope he chimes in
2020-09-12 23:08:41	makeworld	Yeah that'd be great!
2020-09-12 23:14:55	kevinsan	tomasino, is Rhapsode the exploratory search software?
2020-09-12 23:15:36	@tomasino	it's the auditory browser
2020-09-12 23:15:47	@tomasino	it's on the client list on circumlunar
2020-09-12 23:15:53	@tomasino	it was one of the very first clients, in fact
2020-09-12 23:17:34	@tomasino	@alcinnz@floss.social
2020-09-12 23:17:35	kevinsan	i must try it, it might be insightful to experience documents aurally
2020-09-12 23:18:28	@tomasino	indeedy
2020-09-12 23:19:19	kevinsan	and co-incidentally, the exploratory search software Rhapsode is a mine of useful ideas for my quest to experiment with discovery techniques
2020-09-12 23:40:24	makeworld	Is there anything on the ML recently that I should be aware of as a client dev?
2020-09-12 23:40:38	makeworld	Or as a content author, to a lesser extent I guess
2020-09-12 23:43:29	kevinsan	as a content author, there was discussion on using agreed conventional gemtext as a feed format for aggregators, as opposed to atom/rss
2020-09-12 23:44:15	kevinsan	perhaps more accurately, in addition to atom/rss.
2020-09-12 23:44:48	@tomasino	um, nothing that requires any change in what you're doing at this point
2020-09-12 23:46:52	makeworld	Ok, cool thanks
2020-09-12 23:47:08	makeworld	I'm kinda against the gemtext feed thing, feels like a new format for no reason
2020-09-12 23:47:55	@tomasino	i also agree
2020-09-12 23:48:11	@tomasino	read a really great blog post about a dude moving from atom back to RSS yesterday
2020-09-12 23:48:27	@tomasino	https://rusingh.com/articles/2020/09/10/atom-rss-move-comments/
2020-09-12 23:49:32	makeworld	I don't really understand the concerns, but my brain is a little friend rn
2020-09-12 23:49:36	makeworld	*fried
2020-09-12 23:49:40	makeworld	I've proving my point lol
2020-09-12 23:51:11	@tomasino	hehe
2020-09-12 23:51:24	@tomasino	looks like RSS has some blog-specific features that don't exist in ATOM
2020-09-12 23:51:35	makeworld	I will have to re-read the InVis idea being proposed but I'm very intrigued, I like the goal
2020-09-12 23:51:45	makeworld	gemini://idf.looting.uk/capslog/invis.gemini if you haven't heard
2020-09-12 23:51:50	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-09-13 00:26:54	ℹ 	gbmor is now known as 550AAAAG4
2020-09-13 00:41:15	ℹ 	550AAAAG4 is now known as gbmor
2020-09-13 01:43:40	flexibeast	Well that's sad: Emacs' `thing-at-point` doesn't recognise a Gemini URL as being a URL. :-(
2020-09-13 01:46:11	flexibeast	It uses the IANA URI scheme list which, of course, doesn't include `gemini`.
2020-09-13 01:49:37	easeout	think they'd take a patch?
2020-09-13 01:51:20	flexibeast	Don't know what the policy is here. At least the change would be <15 lines, so copyright assignment would not be required of someone who has not otherwise contributed to the code base.
2020-09-13 06:36:55	epoch	at least they used the iana list instead of just "yeah. http and https. that's enough."
2020-09-13 06:38:01	epoch	might be able to find the code in thing-at-point and replace it with something super-generic
2020-09-13 06:38:34	epoch	like "anything that matches a URI based on character whitelist"
2020-09-13 06:38:43	wgreenhouse	flexibeast: gemini://apintandaparma.club/~ajc/log/2020-08-14.gmi and https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Integrate_Gopher_and_Gemini_into_Eww_using_Elpher possibly of interest
2020-09-13 06:38:55		kvothe has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-13 06:39:04	wgreenhouse	(those don't fix thing-at-point but rather browse-url and eww)
2020-09-13 06:39:56		admicos has quit (quit: cya)
2020-09-13 06:40:02	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 06:40:08	epoch	[a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z0-9-+]*:[a fairly large list of characters allowed in the username, password, domain, port, path, query string, and fragment id]
2020-09-13 06:40:39	epoch	(or, and . is allowed in the scheme)
2020-09-13 06:42:07	flexibeast	wgreenhouse: Thanks! i'd seen the first, but not the second. In the end i've written four lines of ELisp that does what i need. :-)
2020-09-13 06:42:38	wgreenhouse	also this is interesting. (find-function 'thing-at-point-url-at-point) does not obviously link against the IANA scheme or any other. it seems to take something like epoch's suggested approach
2020-09-13 06:42:48	wgreenhouse	(at least here in 26.3--I'm not on 27 yet)
2020-09-13 06:43:03	wgreenhouse	scheme is just whatever's before the :
2020-09-13 06:43:58	flexibeast	Well, i've just done `(add-to-list 'thing-at-point-uri-schemes "gemini://")`.
2020-09-13 06:45:01	flexibeast	And that's enough for `(elpher-go (thing-at-point-url-at-point))` to then work.
2020-09-13 06:47:14	wgreenhouse	neat
2020-09-13 06:50:05	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 07:37:14	epoch	I'm using the mather plugin in urxvt and have: \\b([a-z][A-Za-z0-9+.-]*:\\/{0,2}[A-Za-z0-9:/?#\\[\\]@!$&'\''\\(\\)*+,;=%~_.-]+) to match URIs
2020-09-13 07:37:55	epoch	matcher*
2020-09-13 07:45:24	epoch	I'd rather a few extra things that aren't URIs get matched than one thing that is a URI not being matched
2020-09-13 07:45:39	epoch	I can always just not click on the things that aren't
2020-09-13 08:37:24	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 08:37:36	login	hi awalvie
2020-09-13 08:38:57	awalvie	allo!
2020-09-13 08:39:02	awalvie	how's it going?
2020-09-13 09:31:51		sandra has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-13 09:32:02	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 09:41:39		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-13 09:42:33	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 10:17:36		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-13 10:17:42	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 10:18:42		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-13 10:43:37	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 11:51:13	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 12:01:39		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-13 12:01:46	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 12:02:46		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-13 12:38:45	kevinsan	i'm actually disheartened that I missed 1600000000 by 485 seconds.
2020-09-13 12:38:53	djph	aw
2020-09-13 12:39:52	kevinsan	your empathy sustains me, djph
2020-09-13 12:40:09	djph	empa..what? I'm outta coffee
2020-09-13 12:40:15	kevinsan	:)
2020-09-13 13:34:00	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 13:40:37	⚡	felix waves.
2020-09-13 14:15:47	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 15:15:57	admicos	aw man
2020-09-13 15:16:05	admicos	none of the gemini http proxies work on the ps3 browser
2020-09-13 15:16:47	@tomasino	Haha
2020-09-13 15:17:22	@tomasino	Ps3 can make socket connections. Can you create a Gemini browser custom rom?
2020-09-13 15:17:39	admicos	if the homebrew toolchains are still around, why not
2020-09-13 15:17:44	admicos	mine is already jailbroken
2020-09-13 15:20:11	felix	That's odd though, I think portal.mozz.us even works in Lynx.
2020-09-13 15:20:24	@tomasino	Shooting for most esoteric client award
2020-09-13 15:20:34	admicos	felix: it's because the https support is so damn old in this
2020-09-13 15:20:41	admicos	otherwise the sites woulr work
2020-09-13 15:20:43	admicos	would*
2020-09-13 15:21:04	felix	Oh, right. Damn.
2020-09-13 15:22:03	felix	Yet another victim of the "encrypt all the things!!!" rush.
2020-09-13 15:22:13	sandra	But do encrypt all the things though.
2020-09-13 15:23:02	felix	No, I'd very much rather not, thanks. For this and other reasons.
2020-09-13 15:23:43		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-13 15:25:35	admicos	oh wow, psl1ght seems to be still maintained
2020-09-13 15:32:32	kevinsan	admicos, I have a half-baked proxy at https://gemini.susa.net:1993/proxy.html if you want to try on PS3
2020-09-13 15:33:26	admicos	kevinsan: just unplugged mine to make some room on my desk :/ maybe later though
2020-09-13 15:37:38	kevinsan	admicos, couldn't resist trying it - it works (on the stock-firmware browser, at least)
2020-09-13 15:43:41	felix	Your proxy seems to work fine. :)
2020-09-13 15:55:34	kvothe	o/
2020-09-13 15:55:58	sandra	kvothe: Whateven is "rustup"?
2020-09-13 15:56:13	felix	Hello!
2020-09-13 15:56:31	kvothe	oh, isn't that something that sets up a rust module? I'm not sure, lemme google
2020-09-13 15:57:18	kvothe	ahh yep, one of those curlable scripts to set up rust
2020-09-13 15:57:49	sandra	Yes...
2020-09-13 15:58:06	kvothe	I tried rust once, the language itself seemed pretty neat but I wasn't a fan of the cargo kitchen sink approach
2020-09-13 15:58:14	sandra	I wanted to install https://github.com/ClementTsang/bottom but all the options are shady AF. Like "hi download my binary .deb"
2020-09-13 15:58:34	sandra	Yeah I think we talked about that; we compared it to CPAN and such
2020-09-13 15:58:45	sandra	Also I've been overly prolific on CAPCOM
2020-09-13 15:58:50	sandra	I've got like half the posts on there
2020-09-13 15:59:08	felix	Someone has to.
2020-09-13 16:00:11	makeworld	Less shady in Arch Linux sandra :)
2020-09-13 16:00:14	kvothe	more writing is always better than less writing :)
2020-09-13 16:00:59	sandra	makeworld: :)
2020-09-13 16:02:02	kvothe	I, for one, have been enjoying your writing (and kensanata's) about D&D things. I've never actually played, but it's super fascinating!
2020-09-13 16:03:14	sandra	Arguably the "# Clone from master and install manually" option on that Bottom git repo README page is fine
2020-09-13 16:03:49	lewiscowper	Hello geminauts :)
2020-09-13 16:03:57	sandra	Iiiiif you trust all the random libraries cargo pull down :(
2020-09-13 16:03:59	kvothe	o/ lewiscowper
2020-09-13 16:04:00	sandra	Hi lewiscowper
2020-09-13 16:06:06	lewiscowper	I have a probably really stupid question, and I'm not even sure it makes much sense, but if I wanted to start exploring CGI scripts, (see my latest post here gemini://tilde.club/~lewiscowper/gemlog/2020-09-13.gmi), right at the end of that post, there's a list of things I think I need to figure out to make my dreams of dynamic gemini content real. Does that seem like a reasonable
2020-09-13 16:06:08	lewiscowper	summary? My fear is that I've missed something basic, as it's my first CGI experience ever.
2020-09-13 16:06:28	sandra	I was juuuust reading that post :)
2020-09-13 16:06:34	lewiscowper	(for example, are CGI scripts used in gemini capsules served over gemini at all? Or called out to from gemini as http
2020-09-13 16:06:46	sandra	They are over gemini
2020-09-13 16:07:14	lewiscowper	and is the /cgi-bin/ directory something that's part of a standard, or is that server dependent?
2020-09-13 16:07:39	makeworld	That's server depedent
2020-09-13 16:07:56	makeworld	Most servers allow you to specify a directory for cgi binaries, or just lets them happen anywhere
2020-09-13 16:08:01	felix	It's a widely used convention in the HTTP world.
2020-09-13 16:08:03	makeworld	Using cgi-bin is just a convention
2020-09-13 16:08:28	sandra	It's a super retro convention in the HTTP world :) just like tilde dirs
2020-09-13 16:08:37	sandra	It makes me nostalgic AF ♥♥
2020-09-13 16:09:19	makeworld	lewiscowper: Beautiful castor theme btw
2020-09-13 16:09:25	makeworld	Now do Kristall ;)
2020-09-13 16:09:26	kevinsan	lewiscowper, CGI is basically just any executable program (script or binary) where the output (i.e. stdout) gets sent back to the client.
2020-09-13 16:09:42	lewiscowper	yeah, while I do less of it now, I was a web developer for about 5 years or so, and it's never been something I've worked with. Having now read about it, I know it's not true, but I for some reason thought it was dependent on php
2020-09-13 16:10:21	kevinsan	so printf("20 text/gemini\r\n# Hello"), if made executable is a working CGI script
2020-09-13 16:10:59	kvothe	it's gotta be something executable and in a directory that the gemini server is configured to consider for CGI purposes
2020-09-13 16:11:16	lewiscowper	okay dokey, so I'll need to do some digging in tilde.club :)
2020-09-13 16:11:27	sandra	PHP, which sucks, became a smash mainstream hit by completely tangling up and messing up data and presentation in a way that the public was crying out for :D they loved it♥ I get some of the same kicks myself by quasiquoting SXML♥
2020-09-13 16:11:33	kvothe	usually that means it needs to be a script with a shebang (e.g. python or perl)
2020-09-13 16:12:27	lewiscowper	executable scripts I'm familiar with at least, just never built them to be used over the web :)
2020-09-13 16:12:33	lewiscowper	also makeworld: Challenge accepted
2020-09-13 16:12:47	makeworld	Yess! Please share afterward lol
2020-09-13 16:12:52	kvothe	yep yep, literally just stdout redirected to the client :)
2020-09-13 16:13:01	kevinsan	I've got a bunch of my cgi-stuff available here https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/gemini - help yourself
2020-09-13 16:13:04	makeworld	I've been wanting a nice kristall theme but I'm lazy and not really a designer
2020-09-13 16:13:22	idf	sup
2020-09-13 16:13:29	makeworld	kvothe: Usually you have to output headers and stuff too for gemini
2020-09-13 16:13:32	makeworld	Sup
2020-09-13 16:13:47	sandra	When I was a very very young girl my mom brought home a "how to make CGI scripts" thing for me that she had printed out at work. And I read it and read it and it was so difficult to understand and when I was through I was like…
2020-09-13 16:13:47	sandra	"And to make the actual scripts is beyond the scope of this document" I was so disappointed! I didn't know what "stdout" was, I would've wanted to know everything including all those basics.
2020-09-13 16:14:00	lewiscowper	oh hey, I think I was just talking about wanting this (I think) -- https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/gemini/-/blob/master/cgi_assets/html2text
2020-09-13 16:14:59	kevinsan	lewiscowper, html2text, index and search are *binaries* - they have been compiled by me, and i'm shady as f*ck!
2020-09-13 16:15:07	makeworld	Haha
2020-09-13 16:15:08	kvothe	lol
2020-09-13 16:15:20	sandra	:(
2020-09-13 16:15:38		sandra has left #gemini ("part weird creature")
2020-09-13 16:15:58	lewiscowper	lol
2020-09-13 16:15:59	kevinsan	:)  jk, i just want you to know. I can give you the source dirs if you need (I patched Swish++ and html2text for my own nefarious purposes)
2020-09-13 16:17:06	kvothe	hm.
2020-09-13 16:17:31	kevinsan	specifically, swish++ lowers the limit of non-acronym words to 3 chars, and html2text does something different for pre-blocks (if i remember correctly)
2020-09-13 16:17:49	lewiscowper	I wasn't going to just drop them in without inspecting them or figuring out the sources, but I was just talking about how things like the lobste.rs mirror, (and the hacker news mirror that I couldn't find again that I thought was on gemini://gempaper.strangled.net/mirrorlist/), but when I click a link I go back and forwards between firefox and castor, or lynx and bombadillo.
2020-09-13 16:25:49	felix	It will be a while before there's enough content on Gemini.
2020-09-13 16:26:05	kevinsan	how much is enough?
2020-09-13 16:26:12	lewiscowper	gemini://tilde.club/~lewiscowper/cgi-bin/helloworld.sh \o/
2020-09-13 16:26:24	felix	Two weeks ago we still had half the number of servers Gopher has.
2020-09-13 16:26:27	lewiscowper	kristall finished building too, what a moment
2020-09-13 16:27:08	felix	It's alive! Aliiive!
2020-09-13 16:27:16	kevinsan	well done lewiscowper - your first step to a dynamically generated wonderland
2020-09-13 16:27:41	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 16:28:15	lukee	hi folks
2020-09-13 16:28:30	kvothe	lewiscowper: congrats on the cgi hello world!
2020-09-13 16:28:42	kvothe	lukee: hiya!
2020-09-13 16:28:54	lukee	hi kvothe
2020-09-13 16:30:00	lukee	Just pushed a minor update to duckling proxy to fix bug where it would crash on reaching the user supplied download threshold. Also removed my patch for AV-98 as solderpunk has pushed an update to AV-98 that now supports http proxies
2020-09-13 16:30:24	lukee	its always nice to take stuff out as well as put it in
2020-09-13 16:31:02	kvothe	\o/
2020-09-13 16:40:09	lukee	felix: it seems remarkable after about a year, gemini has half the number of gopher servers which must have slowly grown over what, 20 years?
2020-09-13 16:40:55	felix	Isn't it?
2020-09-13 16:41:32	felix	But for now the absolute number is relatively low.
2020-09-13 16:41:45	felix	And those servers don't have much content yet either.
2020-09-13 16:41:48	lukee	still, Gopher does win the longevity prize. We dont know if Gemini will be active for that amount of time
2020-09-13 16:42:48	lukee	yes, you're right.
2020-09-13 16:42:49	felix	It will have been a great journey if not.
2020-09-13 16:43:02	felix	And we'll have learned things.
2020-09-13 16:43:21	lukee	Sometimes recently I think Gemini should be rebranded D&DNet, so many posts
2020-09-13 16:43:54	lukee	maybe it is something about the demographics...
2020-09-13 16:44:19	felix	We happen to have enthusiastic early adopters who also play.
2020-09-13 16:46:02	lukee	I'd love to see a wider user base, not just computer nerds like us
2020-09-13 16:46:42	felix	It can't be helped for now.
2020-09-13 16:46:59	felix	Flounder seems to have an audience of poets and such.
2020-09-13 16:47:25	lukee	that's true. There are pockets of them here and there
2020-09-13 16:47:44	lukee	shows the barriers to adoption are still quite high
2020-09-13 16:48:18	lukee	you either have to be a sysadmin, or know someone who is
2020-09-13 16:48:29	lukee	by and large
2020-09-13 16:54:34	felix	Yeah, we have the tilde servers and little else.
2020-09-13 16:57:23	lukee	Still, I definitely won't be implementing the Twitter to Gemini interface as a way to increase the userbase ;)
2020-09-13 16:58:57	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 16:59:04	felix	For microblogging we want twtxt instead anyway.
2020-09-13 16:59:13	lukee	what is twtxt?
2020-09-13 16:59:44	felix	https://twtxt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
2020-09-13 17:08:47	lukee	thanks
2020-09-13 17:12:41	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 17:35:51	Cadey	i am going to probably install someone else's gemini server
2020-09-13 17:36:10	Cadey	are there any in Go that support CGI?
2020-09-13 17:36:24	lukee	there are a couple. I know Molly Brown does
2020-09-13 17:38:25	lukee	its written in Go.
2020-09-13 17:38:36	lukee	some of the others supporting CGI might not be in Go
2020-09-13 17:39:21	pitr	I'm curious why people use CGI, and not a simple proxy pass?
2020-09-13 17:39:45	pitr	i haven't used cgi since perl days ~15 years ago
2020-09-13 17:40:05	felix	Because CGI is simple and works?
2020-09-13 17:40:08	lukee	ease of deployment I think. Get the script working offline, then drop it in the folder
2020-09-13 17:40:44	lukee	but CGI doesnt scale up to thousands of concurrent connections, so people moved away form it
2020-09-13 17:41:35	felix	Do we all need to support thousands of concurrent connections?
2020-09-13 17:41:35	lukee	but here in Geministan we are a small band of users trying things out, so we dont need Internet size scalability
2020-09-13 17:41:47	felix	:D
2020-09-13 17:41:53	lukee	snap felix
2020-09-13 17:42:46	pitr	with perl/ruby/other interpreted languages i understand how this works, but with go you still need to compile it, no? cross compile locally then rsync?
2020-09-13 17:43:50	lukee	yes, but maybe one might want a Go server to hack on, whilst supporting CGI scripts in whatever language
2020-09-13 17:43:55	felix	It depends. Big web apps like Gitea are distributed as single executables.
2020-09-13 17:44:21	lukee	pitr: are you the pitr behind gig?
2020-09-13 17:44:25	pitr	ya
2020-09-13 17:44:36	pitr	are you luke who emailed me earlier today?
2020-09-13 17:44:41	lukee	yes :)
2020-09-13 17:44:48	pitr	nice to meet you
2020-09-13 17:44:57	lukee	likewise and you
2020-09-13 17:46:29	pitr	I am going to address your feedback for ios client soon, and release to store. Thanks again
2020-09-13 17:46:31	Cadey	pitr: with Go I don't have to be an expert in how packaging for Go works to consume the code safely
2020-09-13 17:47:33	lukee	Cadey - if you are interested in Gemini servers in Go, maybe check out pitr's https://github.com/pitr/gig
2020-09-13 17:47:45	pitr	it's not super complicated: `GOOS=linux GOARCH=amd64 CGO_ENABLED=0 go build .` and that's about it
2020-09-13 17:47:59	pitr	but i get the ease of cgi, nothing against it
2020-09-13 17:48:12	Cadey	my point is 1 binary != a virtualenv and god knows what else lol
2020-09-13 17:48:58	pitr	I haven't had any requests for a glv.one account, maybe it's not as needed as I thought haha
2020-09-13 17:50:32	lukee	pitr: I had a possible idea for your virtual glv.one accounts - to run a public demo instance of Duckling. But my skills with building a docker env is non existent
2020-09-13 17:51:17	pitr	i can help :)
2020-09-13 17:51:28	pitr	not sure what duckling is, can you share a link?
2020-09-13 17:51:53	lukee	HTTP proxy for Gemini: https://github.com/LukeEmmet/duckling-proxy
2020-09-13 17:53:41	pitr	hmm should be simple enough, just need a simple Dockerfile that copies the (cross compiled for linux) binary and ssl keys and run it - https://github.com/pitr/geddit/blob/master/Dockerfile
2020-09-13 17:54:27	pitr	and to build/deploy - last 3 steps of this Makefile - https://github.com/pitr/geddit/blob/master/Makefile#L30-L37
2020-09-13 17:56:17	pitr	if duckling could refresh certificates once in a while, don't even need to provide keys as glv.one gives you let's encrypt ssl keys - https://github.com/pitr/geddit/blob/master/main.go#L24-L41
2020-09-13 17:56:48	pitr	i can open a PR for this into your repo
2020-09-13 17:58:22	lukee	yes thanks! I'll follow up with you offline.
2020-09-13 18:06:49	pitr	so clients supporting per-scheme proxies will make request to the proxy URL, (ie ClientHello message in SSL handshake will contain proxy's hostname) but the gemini request in the first 1024 bytes will be for the https url, correct?
2020-09-13 18:08:03	lukee	yes
2020-09-13 18:08:46	lukee	the proxy does the work to get the content and returns it to the client. The client just sees a normal Gemini server
2020-09-13 18:10:43	makeworld	pitr: Yeah that's how most Gemini proxies are supposed to work afaik
2020-09-13 18:11:30	makeworld	Similar to how vhosting works
2020-09-13 18:11:37	lukee	hi makeworld
2020-09-13 18:11:45	makeworld	Heyo!
2020-09-13 18:12:16	makeworld	Bought an rtl-sdr yesterday and I'm excited for it to arrive
2020-09-13 18:12:44	makeworld	I wonder if I can serve it over Gemini somehow...
2020-09-13 18:13:45	lukee	well it seems you can plug it into a raspberrypi https://www.rtl-sdr.com/
2020-09-13 18:14:21	idf	i have a rtl-sdr and i used to plug it in my rpi, saddly i didnt get much signal so i gave up, then i used it for tracking planes
2020-09-13 18:14:35	idf	i think a gemini page that would track planes using dump1090 would be cute
2020-09-13 18:22:13	lewiscowper	makeworld: gemini://tilde.club/~lewiscowper/files/nord-kristall.png
2020-09-13 18:22:31	lewiscowper	(still trying to figure out how to get my KDE UI theme applied, will continue working on it later)
2020-09-13 18:23:14	lewiscowper	I definitely need a better link colour though
2020-09-13 18:24:00		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-13 18:27:50	lewiscowper	maybe a bit too aggressive with the link colours? gemini://tilde.club/~lewiscowper/files/nord-kristall-links.png
2020-09-13 18:28:36	lukee	lewiscowper: from your latest post, looks like perhaps you are looking for your GUI gemini clients (Castor/Kristall) to support an HTTP proxy.
2020-09-13 18:28:56	lewiscowper	I'm not 100% sure, as I essentially want like a "reading mode" link through
2020-09-13 18:29:10	lewiscowper	so for example the contents of the <main> or <article> tags etc
2020-09-13 18:29:29	lewiscowper	something that can strip it all away and have it automagically passed through as text
2020-09-13 18:30:01	lukee	yes you need an HTML navigational-cruft-remover
2020-09-13 18:30:11	lukee	in your workflow
2020-09-13 18:30:16	lukee	there are various
2020-09-13 18:30:47	lukee	I hope to build one into Duckling at some future point
2020-09-13 18:31:47	makeworld	lewiscowper: Nice! Got a config file or something for that?
2020-09-13 18:31:57	lewiscowper	yep, hang on, I exported the preset
2020-09-13 18:34:01	lewiscowper	gemini://tilde.club/~lewiscowper/files/nord.kthm
2020-09-13 18:34:03	lewiscowper	makeworld: ^
2020-09-13 18:34:17	lewiscowper	you should hopefully be able to import that and have it work
2020-09-13 18:35:07	makeworld	Downloaded with gemget ;)
2020-09-13 18:35:12	makeworld	Thanks, will try later
2020-09-13 18:35:23	makeworld	idf: dump1090 seems interesting, thanks for the link
2020-09-13 18:35:32	makeworld	But I was sorta picturing something like websdr but for Gemini
2020-09-13 18:35:34	lukee	lewiscowper: there is the "Readability" library, and various forks of it
2020-09-13 18:35:46	lewiscowper	lukee: the proxy might be the thing that I actually want, but I'd like the client to be able to show the original URL etc, which may well be fine
2020-09-13 18:35:52	lewiscowper	and yeah, that'd likely be my angle
2020-09-13 18:36:15	lewiscowper	I think at this stage I might wind up writing some kind of client
2020-09-13 18:37:09	lukee	yes you need a bit of UI in the client so that the user can choose:
2020-09-13 18:37:21	lukee	a) see the full HTML as GMI in the client
2020-09-13 18:37:32	lukee	b) see a sanitised (reader mode) version
2020-09-13 18:37:40	lukee	c) launch the URL in the system web browser
2020-09-13 18:38:55	lukee	this is how I'm implementing that UI in GemiNaut: https://imgur.com/a/sf7Tvy6
2020-09-13 18:40:32	lewiscowper	yeah that looks nice
2020-09-13 18:42:39	lukee	thanks - its still WIP
2020-09-13 18:43:58	▬▬▶	timemachine has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 18:49:18	idf	makeworld: no problem, btw i had problems using the google maps thingie that shows you planes on a map included, mostly because the token expired, so you can either replace the token or use a fork that works, i used the flightaware fork
2020-09-13 19:02:33	makeworld	Where is that fork?
2020-09-13 19:03:33	idf	well you mentioned a raspberry pi, https://github.com/flightaware/piaware so you might be interested in this
2020-09-13 19:04:00	makeworld	I didn't actually lol, everyone after me did. I might use my RPi for this but idk. I have a regular debian server that I might use as well
2020-09-13 19:04:09	makeworld	But I guess I could put my RPi outside
2020-09-13 19:04:16	idf	oh sorry
2020-09-13 19:04:42	idf	there's still this https://github.com/flightaware/dump1090
2020-09-13 19:05:09	makeworld	Hmm yeah looks for internal use though
2020-09-13 19:05:14	makeworld	Anyway interesting thanks
2020-09-13 19:05:46	idf	i think it should work for normal stuff aswell, even the old original archived repo links to it
2020-09-13 19:06:01	makeworld	Oh hmm ok
2020-09-13 19:06:14	idf	well "original", the original fork would be more fitting
2020-09-13 19:06:19	idf	https://github.com/mutability/dump1090
2020-09-13 19:06:43	idf	this project really has a lot of forks for some reason
2020-09-13 19:06:53	idf	fun stuff
2020-09-13 19:07:13	idf	but afaik the flightaware one is the most widely used now
2020-09-13 19:10:39	idf	an interesting project would be making like a bunch of gemini files about different planes and making a cgi that takes dump1090's output and makes a link for every plane and when you enter the link you get information about every plane
2020-09-13 19:10:54	idf	*about the respective plane
2020-09-13 19:11:30	idf	could make a git repo so people could contribute with fun aviation facts :D
2020-09-13 19:28:00		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-13 19:28:06	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 19:28:22		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-13 19:28:28	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 19:29:57		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-13 20:01:17		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-13 20:23:52	makeworld	Haha sounds interesting! I will see
2020-09-13 20:24:03	makeworld	Seems like a creative way to doxx myself though
2020-09-13 20:24:18	makeworld	Broadcasting all the planes that fly overhead
2020-09-13 20:31:08	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 20:50:43	epoch	btw, geo URIs are a thing, if anyone starts writing stuff for the planes and maps.
2020-09-13 20:55:06	epoch	hrm.. I was thinking of a way to show an association between an airplane and a geo URI
2020-09-13 20:55:13	epoch	and then updating the geo URI
2020-09-13 20:55:28	epoch	and now I have some streaming json coming out of my brain.
2020-09-13 20:56:31	epoch	like, infinite stream of {"name":"PLANE_NAME","uri":"geo:lat,lon"}
2020-09-13 20:58:42	epoch	(ofc it doesn't have to be json. /could/ just be the geo URI with the plane name after a bit of whitespace and client program would split there)
2020-09-13 21:08:12	epoch	flightware.com's map pulls json data about planes from https://flightaware.com/ajax/vicinity_aircraft.rvt?&minLon=0&minLat=0&maxLon=180&maxLat=90&token=[merp]
2020-09-13 21:29:33	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 21:30:34		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-13 21:53:50		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-13 22:28:16		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-13 23:30:04	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-13 23:31:33		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-14 01:31:08	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 01:33:31		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-14 03:32:45		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-14 05:24:27	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 05:28:32		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-14 05:28:50	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 05:32:49	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 05:34:18		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-14 06:11:24	ℹ 	klu_ is now known as klu
2020-09-14 06:29:43	ℹ 	klu is now known as klu__
2020-09-14 06:46:19	ℹ 	klu__ is now known as klu
2020-09-14 07:33:52	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 07:34:54		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-14 07:35:43	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 08:08:06		idf has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-09-14 08:10:05	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 10:23:38		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-14 11:53:17	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 11:57:57	felix	TFW you mirror a Gopher client on Gemini.
2020-09-14 12:02:51	CoopDot	https://chaos.social/@coopdot/104862879249843604
2020-09-14 12:07:40	felix	:D
2020-09-14 13:33:47		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-14 14:43:10	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 14:47:30	⚡	felix waves.
2020-09-14 15:55:31	idf	guys i got the first user for my hosting service :)
2020-09-14 15:58:06	xj9	nice!
2020-09-14 16:01:43	idf	yup :D
2020-09-14 16:02:02	felix	Congrats!
2020-09-14 16:02:47	idf	thank you :)
2020-09-14 16:07:25	felix	Can we see?
2020-09-14 16:09:29	idf	they haven't started hosting anything yet, but i got an email saying that they would like an account and so i made one
2020-09-14 16:09:37	felix	Oh, okay!
2020-09-14 16:09:44	idf	and replied, now i'm waiting, but, I still think its nice!
2020-09-14 16:09:52	felix	Sure is!
2020-09-14 16:10:10	idf	i hope i didnt forget to forward the ports lol
2020-09-14 16:11:12	idf	yup, i did
2020-09-14 16:11:17	idf	actually i forward to the wrong ip
2020-09-14 16:11:29	idf	which is my laptop not my pi
2020-09-14 16:11:58	idf	oh nvm, it's all correct!
2020-09-14 16:11:58	⚡	felix grins.
2020-09-14 16:12:15	@tomasino	yay
2020-09-14 16:50:31	mhj	Heyo all~
2020-09-14 16:53:44	felix	Hi!
2020-09-14 17:27:13	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 17:29:07	⚡	felix waves.
2020-09-14 17:51:36	companion_cube	o/
2020-09-14 17:58:19	felix	O hai!
2020-09-14 18:12:11	companion_cube	\ô/
2020-09-14 18:12:21	felix	Hee!
2020-09-14 18:14:31	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 18:17:13	mhj	What's up all~
2020-09-14 18:17:40	idf	nothing much
2020-09-14 18:17:43	mhj	Anything new in Jemland
2020-09-14 18:17:46	acdw	ey ey
2020-09-14 18:19:04	mhj	Listening to a podcast about privacy and security. The Ask Noah Show. Apparently the newest Thunderbird has a built-in encryption feature.
2020-09-14 18:19:35	wallet	yes
2020-09-14 18:19:40	wallet	pgp built-in
2020-09-14 18:19:57	mhj	Ooh cool
2020-09-14 18:25:39		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-14 18:40:47	@tomasino	truly truly outrageous
2020-09-14 18:41:59	acdw	thunderbird?
2020-09-14 18:42:10	@tomasino	JEM-ini
2020-09-14 18:42:30	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BWy-a1HHhc
2020-09-14 18:42:30	acdw	haha yse
2020-09-14 18:42:42	acdw	YES
2020-09-14 18:42:53	acdw	apparently the nasa dudes would pronounce it Jemminy
2020-09-14 18:44:27	@tomasino	we used to say jigga-wat, like in back to the future also
2020-09-14 18:44:51	@tomasino	the j's really transitioned quickly to a hard g
2020-09-14 18:45:14	@tomasino	how to you say gif these days?
2020-09-14 18:45:36	acdw	gif
2020-09-14 18:45:43	acdw	omg this song fucking slaps
2020-09-14 18:46:02	@tomasino	Jem is badass
2020-09-14 18:46:29	acdw	omg i need noelle stevenson to do a remake of jem as well. or like, have a she-ra/jem crossover
2020-09-14 18:46:32	acdw	that would be soo good
2020-09-14 18:46:46	@tomasino	it would
2020-09-14 18:46:49	@tomasino	it's ripe for it
2020-09-14 18:47:07	@tomasino	the movie they made had pretty much nothing to do with the show
2020-09-14 18:47:10	@tomasino	i was greatly disappointed
2020-09-14 18:47:35	acdw	oof that sucx
2020-09-14 18:48:20	acdw	dude seriously tho, this song is so good -- i'm just listening to the extended theme
2020-09-14 18:48:38	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKes13H5_g
2020-09-14 18:48:42	acdw	I need a MCU-style Mattel Cinematic Universe
2020-09-14 18:48:58	acdw	oh that bassline tho
2020-09-14 18:50:04	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G4U_wM3o6Y
2020-09-14 18:51:29	acdw	is this going to be your next tilde radio show? bc ... it should be
2020-09-14 18:51:44	@tomasino	oh man
2020-09-14 18:51:52	@tomasino	there might be enough jem content for an hour long show
2020-09-14 18:52:05	@tomasino	i wanna see powderpaint cover this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulPwG6wY9xA
2020-09-14 18:52:09	@tomasino	i should toot them
2020-09-14 18:52:57	acdw	OH SHIT THEY TRAVEL THRU TIME!?!?!?!?!!?
2020-09-14 18:53:00	acdw	oh my goawd
2020-09-14 18:53:18	acdw	i need to tweet @ noelle stevenson rn
2020-09-14 18:53:30	@tomasino	please make a jem & the holograms show come back
2020-09-14 18:53:38	@tomasino	i used to watch this before school. such great memories
2020-09-14 18:54:38	@tomasino	oh acdw, check the comments in this one. Some great background on the singer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjvfb8GqCl4
2020-09-14 18:55:20	acdw	you are sending me down the best rabbit hole rn
2020-09-14 18:55:44	acdw	oh that's rad a
2020-09-14 18:55:46	acdw	af
2020-09-14 18:56:12	acdw	okay I tweeted noelle stevenson. after following her lol. so it's basically a done deal
2020-09-14 18:57:12	@tomasino	yay
2020-09-14 18:59:28	acdw	heha
2020-09-14 19:40:31		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-14 19:52:03		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-09-14 20:19:00	▬▬▶	thewetcrab has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 20:19:47	thewetcrab	Hello 0/
2020-09-14 20:19:49	thewetcrab	Anyone had had the change to watch Social Dilemia on NetFlix yet?
2020-09-14 20:26:22		fleeky_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-14 20:28:24	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 20:29:50	michel	thewetcrab: watched it on release day!
2020-09-14 20:31:38		michel has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.4)
2020-09-14 20:32:18	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 20:50:01		michel has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.4)
2020-09-14 20:51:48	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 20:55:50		michel has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.4)
2020-09-14 20:57:41	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 21:12:37	kevinsan	michel, thewetcrab: did it do justice to the subject, or was it all hype and little substance?
2020-09-14 21:13:22	thewetcrab	Do you think it will help the wider general public understand the issues with social media and how it is / can be harmful to society?
2020-09-14 21:13:57	lewiscowper	my gemlog made it on to capcom! After having to replace my RSS feed with an Atom feed :) \o/
2020-09-14 21:22:01	kevinsan	I read Chaos Monkeys (about facebook), and Trust Me, I'm Lying - neither did much to discuss the issues. Chaos Monkeys was entirely crap, the other went a bit into things like a/b testing and engagement metrics.
2020-09-14 21:25:35	kevinsan	the subject is immense though, not helped by opacity of the wrong-doers. I also think the wrong-doing might be largely emergent, which makes it difficult to get a proper handle on
2020-09-14 21:25:53	thewetcrab	kevinsan Chaos Monkeys is a great name, shame to hear it is crap! :/
2020-09-14 21:26:58	kevinsan	it was awful - more of a Zuckerberg PR piece really. One of those "You WON'T BELIEVE what I'm about to tell you!"...  then sfa, rinse, repeat, end.
2020-09-14 21:27:07	thewetcrab	Yes agree this is all very emergent, I'm usually good at having a gut feeling about tech, I was on social media early and feel like I got off it early-ish. Feel like I have been winding down my social media use and warning others about the dangers for about 3+ years now
2020-09-14 21:32:29	kevinsan	Jaron Lanier (who features in the film) talked on UK daytime TV a year or two ago about the dangers of social networking addiction. He said something like this:
2020-09-14 21:33:27	kevinsan	"It's making society insane. They're addicted to nonsense. What you can do to help is stop using it and keep a clear head so you can help in the aftermath."
2020-09-14 21:34:19	kevinsan	I paraphrase :)  But it was essentially what he said. It was refreshing to have a voice of reason get to speak.
2020-09-14 21:40:06	thewetcrab	kevinsan Jaron Lanier has popped up a few times in my search for knowledge about why I should stop using social media.
2020-09-14 21:40:24	thewetcrab	I was tempted today to get his book You Are Not A Gadget, do you know much about that book?
2020-09-14 21:40:30	thewetcrab	Do you know much about Jaron Lanier ?
2020-09-14 21:41:00	thewetcrab	I am trying to decided if I should or should not get the book. I don't know much about Jaron Lanier so I don't know how much value I assign to his opinion about all of this.
2020-09-14 21:41:33	kevinsan	No, I don't know much about him. He's clearly bright, and seems to have genuine integrity. I'd read his book (if I was more of a reader - you've just prompted me though)
2020-09-14 21:44:54	kevinsan	I watched this recently - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i6LXdj_Z6s it's a tribute thing to Ted Nelson. I noticed that, even while paying tribute to Nelson, he argues a differing opinion with him (on bitcoin) right on stage!
2020-09-14 21:47:03	thewetcrab	I have to go now kevinsan, do you come here often would be great to chat with you more about this.
2020-09-14 21:47:13	thewetcrab	I will watch that video tomorrow, thanks for posting the link :)
2020-09-14 21:47:18	kevinsan	I thought that shows Lanier's integrity, to defy social norms and general politeness to honestly give his opinion, the tone in his voice shows we was aware of it.
2020-09-14 21:47:25	kevinsan	yes, i'm here often enough. see ya!
2020-09-14 21:50:38		thewetcrab has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-14 23:07:03		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-14 23:07:10	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-14 23:08:10		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-15 01:23:54	michel	kevinsan: sorry, just got back. I think it's well worth watching. I work for one of those companies and... have been deeply skeptical of social media for years but this still managed to shake me even more
2020-09-15 01:27:32	michel	I read Chaos Monkeys prior to starting at Facebook. It's ... crap as a critique of the industry. it's not bad for internal Facebook lore. The author worked at Goldman Sachs before, so... can't expect a moral epiphany
2020-09-15 01:30:49	michel	tempted to read You're Not A Gadget myself. I've just read Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Right Now -- I find it a harder read than, say, Tim Wu's book against monopolies (The Curse of Bigness) and I don't know if it's because Lanier weaves so many disparate points into his 10 arguments or because the subject matter is so depressing
2020-09-15 01:31:02	michel	there's a nice A/B test for it though, I can read Tim Wu's "Attention Merchants" :p
2020-09-15 02:28:25		klu has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-09-15 02:28:45	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 04:03:25	kayw	probably going to start a new project and make a GTK gemini client that focused on running on mobile platforms
2020-09-15 04:06:26	kayw	it'll still be able to run on desktops, but it's primarily for mobile Linux systems
2020-09-15 05:44:41		klu has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-09-15 06:05:16		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-15 06:34:27	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 07:52:38	▬▬▶	klu_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 08:27:38	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 08:46:57		flexibeast has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-15 08:55:51		kline has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-15 09:52:27		southerntofu has quit (team.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-15 09:52:27		scifi has quit (team.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-15 09:52:27		dokuja has quit (team.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-15 09:52:27		erin has quit (team.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-15 09:53:17	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 10:23:28	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 10:23:28	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 10:23:28	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 10:23:28	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 12:02:38	▬▬▶	mattx has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 12:03:35		thombles has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-15 12:04:10	▬▬▶	ged has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 12:44:21	makeworld	The lagrange  client is amazing wow
2020-09-15 12:44:43	makeworld	FTS of the previous pages I visted, for example
2020-09-15 12:44:46	makeworld	Through the address bar
2020-09-15 12:49:41	▬▬▶	alazarte has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 12:58:19	@tomasino	i still need to check that one out
2020-09-15 12:58:52	makeworld	It's much easier now than it was before, you can just do a git clone --recursive and some  cmake commands
2020-09-15 13:10:38		idf has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-09-15 13:12:26	@tomasino	wow, this is pretty
2020-09-15 13:12:27	@tomasino	and fast
2020-09-15 13:13:14	@tomasino	looks like it's also using the domain-powered background colorization thing
2020-09-15 13:13:17	@tomasino	brilliant
2020-09-15 13:15:20	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 13:15:32	idf	sup
2020-09-15 13:17:08	xfnw	hi idf
2020-09-15 13:47:42	kevinsan	idf, how's your first user coming along - have they created anything yet?
2020-09-15 13:48:47	kevinsan	i remember my first web app i wrote, when i got my first user they sql injected my site and rooted the box :)
2020-09-15 13:49:00	kevinsan	that was a long time ago!
2020-09-15 14:21:20	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 14:26:22	ged	day 0 on gemini and I realize that the web does so many things
2020-09-15 14:26:26	ged	in that "too much things"
2020-09-15 14:28:09	felix	:D
2020-09-15 14:28:30	ged	All I've been using my browser for has been to search for
2020-09-15 14:28:38	felix	Yeah. That's kind of the point with Gemini, overcompensating.
2020-09-15 14:28:38	ged	(my cat stepped on my keyboard)
2020-09-15 14:28:41	felix	To make a point.
2020-09-15 14:28:50	⚡	felix pets the kitty
2020-09-15 14:29:27	ged	All I've been using my browser for has been to search for Gemini client, to setup my terminal and weechat, and to signup on tilde.team
2020-09-15 14:29:34	felix	Hee!
2020-09-15 14:30:00	ged	Sorry for the flood
2020-09-15 14:30:10	ged	I've pet the kitty for you
2020-09-15 14:30:26	felix	What flood? We're here to chat.
2020-09-15 14:30:29	felix	And yay!
2020-09-15 14:30:55		mattx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-15 14:30:58	ged	Using OpenBSD, I should create unprivileged users for amfor and weechat
2020-09-15 14:31:24	▬▬▶	mattx has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 14:31:46		mattx has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-15 14:31:50	ged	(Users who don't have any privilege, whose home directory is /var/empty)
2020-09-15 14:32:59	felix	What if you want to download something?
2020-09-15 14:33:12	rak	What for?
2020-09-15 14:34:04	felix	...The same reasons you download things from the web?
2020-09-15 14:34:21	rak	felix: no, sorry, that was address to ged.
2020-09-15 14:34:21	ged	Oh, yes, you're right
2020-09-15 14:34:45	ged	... Well I didn't get the point with unprivilged users
2020-09-15 14:34:54	⚡	felix nodnods.
2020-09-15 14:35:36	ged	I forgot my phone at my mum's, so I can't read Absolute OpenBSD right now
2020-09-15 14:35:56	ged	(I may use clumsy syntax because I'm not a native English speaker, feel free to correct me)
2020-09-15 14:36:12	ged	I mean, maybe "my mum's" is a little bit pretentious
2020-09-15 14:36:16	ged	I don't know
2020-09-15 14:36:36	rak	I've run irssi/weechat as my regular user for ~15 years now. I don't see the point in running your IRC client as an unprivileged user. Are you afraid that some security vulnerability in weechat is going to let someone send a carefully crafted string to your IRC client and somehow have it return the contents of your home directory or something?
2020-09-15 14:37:06	companion_cube	or to get a shell on your machine I guess
2020-09-15 14:37:14	ged	No, it's just for training
2020-09-15 14:37:30	ged	I'd rather mess up with weechat than with a web browser
2020-09-15 14:37:46	companion_cube	that's fair.
2020-09-15 14:37:59	felix	Then yeah, it makes sense.
2020-09-15 14:38:26	@ben	the only consideration i have for weechat is the relay protocol and the /exec plugin
2020-09-15 14:39:49	ged	Hmmm
2020-09-15 14:39:57	ged	Btw my pronouns are he/him
2020-09-15 14:40:07	ged	Sorry, I was just thinking about this
2020-09-15 14:40:32	@tomasino	,pronouns
2020-09-15 14:40:33	tildebot	[Pronouns] Pronouns for tomasino: "he, him"
2020-09-15 14:40:37	ged	Oooh cool
2020-09-15 14:40:41	ged	,pronouns
2020-09-15 14:40:42	tildebot	[Pronouns] ged: Please set pronouns, e.g.: ,config ged pronouns she/her
2020-09-15 14:41:09	companion_cube	nice
2020-09-15 14:41:21	ged	,config ged pronouns "they, them"
2020-09-15 14:41:22	tildebot	[Config] Config 'pronouns' set to '"they, them"'
2020-09-15 14:41:39	ged	,config ged pronouns they/them
2020-09-15 14:41:40	tildebot	[Config] Config 'pronouns' set to 'they/them'
2020-09-15 14:41:48	ged	,pronouns
2020-09-15 14:41:49	tildebot	[Pronouns] Pronouns for ged: they/them
2020-09-15 14:41:57	ged	Sorry for the flood
2020-09-15 14:42:03	companion_cube	you can /query tildebot
2020-09-15 14:42:06	companion_cube	to play with that
2020-09-15 14:42:15	@tomasino	s'alright. the bot does a lot. worth exploring in a query sometime
2020-09-15 14:42:17	ged	Thanks
2020-09-15 14:43:14	ged	I don't know what the fuck my gender is
2020-09-15 14:43:18	ged	Sorry
2020-09-15 14:43:26	companion_cube	what's is tildebot implemented in, tomasino?
2020-09-15 14:43:39	xfnw	tildebot: source
2020-09-15 14:43:40	tildebot	[Info] Source: https://git.io/bitbot
2020-09-15 14:44:03	companion_cube	oh nice.
2020-09-15 14:44:09	companion_cube	all in python…
2020-09-15 14:45:37	@tomasino	,species
2020-09-15 14:45:39	tildebot	[Species] tomasino is a superintelligent shade of the color blue
2020-09-15 14:45:54	felix	Hee!
2020-09-15 14:46:32	@ben	hooloovoo!
2020-09-15 14:46:54	ged	,species
2020-09-15 14:46:55	tildebot	[Species] ged: Please set species, e.g.: ,config ged species sandcat
2020-09-15 14:47:08	ged	ok, sorry
2020-09-15 14:47:12	@ben	also some more stuff here: https://tildegit.org/ben/bitbot-modules
2020-09-15 14:47:18	@ben	tildebot-specific
2020-09-15 14:47:19	ged	Thanks!
2020-09-15 14:47:24	@ben	if you're interested
2020-09-15 14:52:51	@tomasino	lagrange is very pretty. Not sure i dig the intro paragraph auto-styling, especially when the document isn't text/gemini
2020-09-15 14:54:50	kevinsan	,config kevinsan pronouns it/that
2020-09-15 14:54:51	tildebot	[Config] Config 'pronouns' set to 'it/that'
2020-09-15 14:58:17	kevinsan	something i noticed with lagrang was high cpu usage (~8% of an i7 2.5GHz core) when the cursor is flashing in the url bar - anyone else seeing this?
2020-09-15 15:00:45	⚡	tomasino looks
2020-09-15 15:01:12	@tomasino	nope, almost 0 cpu and mem
2020-09-15 15:01:33	felix	,config felix pronouns he/him
2020-09-15 15:01:34	tildebot	[Config] Config 'pronouns' set to 'he/him'
2020-09-15 15:01:52	@tomasino	it's interesting that it's not static. It pops up to 0.5% cpu for a flash, then back to 0
2020-09-15 15:01:54	kevinsan	maybe it relates to the software renderer (which I use becauese opengl screwed up for me)
2020-09-15 15:01:55	@tomasino	polling or something?
2020-09-15 15:02:58	kevinsan	that crossed my mind - SDL code is more gaming slanted, where timings have to be strictly imposed.
2020-09-15 15:03:40	@tomasino	is lagrange processing data as a stream?
2020-09-15 15:03:46	@tomasino	i just noticed it loaded this page in chunks
2020-09-15 15:44:25	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 15:53:54	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-15 16:08:29		alazarte has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-15 16:11:40	kevinsan	hi felix! what's new?
2020-09-15 16:12:19	felix	A gamedev newsletter.
2020-09-15 16:12:25	kevinsan	link?
2020-09-15 16:12:43	felix	https://notimetoplay.org/blog/gamedev-news-20200915.html
2020-09-15 16:12:49	felix	Not on Gemini, sorry.
2020-09-15 16:12:51	kevinsan	i keep tinkering with game development, but really i'm not so good at it.
2020-09-15 16:13:04	felix	As long as you're having fun.
2020-09-15 16:15:04	kevinsan	your writing should come with a public health warning: can cause serious loss of time :)
2020-09-15 16:15:51	kevinsan	btw, i'm really hopeful that china will accelerate work on risc-v cores - they're already doing a whole load of interesting stuff in that area
2020-09-15 16:16:41	kevinsan	and it all works well towards low-tech (initially at least) computing.
2020-09-15 16:22:47	felix	Wish I could say that gives me hope.
2020-09-15 16:23:01	felix	Not holding my breath on Risc-V though.
2020-09-15 16:24:04	companion_cube	why not? isn't it the only open architecture that has a chance?
2020-09-15 16:24:28	felix	But does it?
2020-09-15 16:26:02	felix	Open hardware of any kind never seems to have much luck at all.
2020-09-15 16:26:25	felix	Always turns out to be so much harder to get going than expected.
2020-09-15 16:27:13	companion_cube	well in this case it has at least a bit of traction I think
2020-09-15 16:27:16	kevinsan	i've been using a risc-v mcu, and it's awesome to program. it feels clean in its architecture, interrupt handling is awesome. i love it
2020-09-15 16:27:17	companion_cube	not open hardware, but open ISA
2020-09-15 16:27:20	companion_cube	which is already something
2020-09-15 16:29:23	kevinsan	to my mind, the proposition of risc-v is innovation - want 128 simple cores to see if it works, sure go ahead. no license discussions or cost implications.
2020-09-15 16:30:12	felix	Doesn't help much if manufacturing the chips proves impractical.
2020-09-15 16:30:35	felix	And then all the hardware that has to surround them.
2020-09-15 16:30:39	kevinsan	that's true - also the issue of IP still exists, but there are potentially more people producing core designs and selling these
2020-09-15 16:30:59	felix	Notice how single-board computers always end up with proprietary components?
2020-09-15 16:33:17	felix	And we have so many excellent CPU architectures whose patents have expired.
2020-09-15 16:33:18	kevinsan	they end up with proprietary components because there's little alternative when you chase performance.
2020-09-15 16:33:41	kevinsan	like mips - another lovely isa
2020-09-15 16:33:55	felix	Yes, exactly! Turns out it's not at all easy to get this stuff working well.
2020-09-15 16:34:30	kevinsan	i mean, even the raspberry pi foundation upgraded and broke their pin layout at the first opportunity (there were reasons, but not good enough n my opinion)
2020-09-15 16:34:52	kevinsan	chasing some camera interface that was never critical to their stated goals
2020-09-15 16:36:22	felix	Don't get me started about Brits. See also: the OLPC.
2020-09-15 16:37:33	kevinsan	but i genuinely expect a chinese company will come up with a cheap risc-v with mmu that can drive a reasonable spi framebuffer or similar.
2020-09-15 16:39:05	felix	Assuming they have any reason to care.
2020-09-15 16:39:21	kevinsan	nvidia is a good reason to care :)
2020-09-15 16:44:21		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-15 16:45:46	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 16:49:48		moody has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-09-15 16:59:24		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-15 17:20:06	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 18:27:47		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-15 18:29:43		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-15 19:02:55		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-15 19:03:16	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 19:10:44	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 19:34:03		ged has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-15 19:52:58	admicos	finally got a gemini browser installed on my new setup
2020-09-15 19:53:09	admicos	also decided on making a new color scheme for it, thoughts?: https://ebc.li/anjv.png
2020-09-15 19:54:00	admicos	(also lightmode: https://ebc.li/vfdn.png)
2020-09-15 20:45:15	▬▬▶	ged has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 21:06:13		ged has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-15 21:07:21	rak	I should finish my gemini browser some day.
2020-09-15 21:36:01		mhj has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-15 21:52:14	kevinsan	how far on are you rak? what did you use to write it?
2020-09-15 22:19:42	admicos	aah i just realized i gitignored my script to generate my atom feed, guess i should start working on that static site generator i was planning on soon
2020-09-15 22:23:35	admicos	i hope i didn't mess anything up hand-editing the feed :/
2020-09-15 22:31:14	@tomasino	i'm sure you'll do great
2020-09-15 22:34:18		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-15 22:34:26	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 22:35:26		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-15 23:34:59	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-15 23:36:01		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-15 23:41:00	kevinsan	admicos, i just wrote a (simple!) bash script to generate an atom feed from a list of files, do you want it?
2020-09-15 23:41:24	kevinsan	you've reminds me, commit it!
2020-09-15 23:49:08		bard has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-15 23:49:22	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:02:04	kevinsan	Committed. https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/gemini/-/blob/master/cgi_assets/make_atom.sh
2020-09-16 00:23:40	login	cool
2020-09-16 00:59:09		jlj has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		patrick has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		caranatar has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		bacterio has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		lel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		tildebeast has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		jns has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		kvothe has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		tiwesdaeg has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		southerntofu has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		kayw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		benoliver999 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		lrb has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		timemachine has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		doppler has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		g has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		xfnw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		Siinamon has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		tildebot has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		rak has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		CoopDot has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		calmbit has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		gbmor has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		emily has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		lucidiot has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		Sario has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		scifi has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		wgreenhouse has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		bandali has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		Gemino has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		creme has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		klu_ has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		dodolz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		calamitous has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		anton|pw has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:09		rmgr has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		CommunistWolf has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		wingy has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		lewiscowper has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		kevinsan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		griffin has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		enpo has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		nalaph has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		tastytea has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		fleeky has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		michel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		dokuja has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		erin has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		makeworld has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		krjst has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		bard has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		ehmry has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		Sario528 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		m68k has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		alex11 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		nikita has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		Cadey has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		wangofett has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		cel has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		exprez135 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		paper1 has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		login has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		dctrud has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		mozz has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		rjt_znc has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		flexibeast has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		appll has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		xq has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		cyrus has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		lanodan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		idf has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		paper has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		jan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		julienxx has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		pentangle has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		gohan has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		Ekkie has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:10		omni has quit (team.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	paper1 has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	emily has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	lrb has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:12	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 00:59:30	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:01	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:01	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:01	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:01	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:01	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:01	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:01	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:01	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	timemachine has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:02	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-09-16 01:01:28	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:28	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:28	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:28	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:28	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:28	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:28	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:28	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:28	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:46	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:46	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:46	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:46	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:01:46	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:02:53	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:13:30	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 01:34:02		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-16 02:26:07	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 02:31:10	makeworld	Stripped lagrange binary is only 705kb I'm impressed
2020-09-16 02:31:50	makeworld	I guess it has dynamic linking but still
2020-09-16 02:33:18		flexibeast has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-16 02:45:38	rak	kevinsan: not very. it can make requests and show the results in a curses-like interface. ocaml.
2020-09-16 02:56:35		acdw has quit (quit: See  You Space Cowpokes ......)
2020-09-16 03:05:25	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 05:36:06	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 05:39:29		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-16 05:39:36	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 05:40:36		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-16 07:16:30	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 07:18:29		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-16 07:55:44	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 07:56:44		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-16 08:00:15	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 08:09:26		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-16 08:31:10	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 10:01:58		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-16 10:13:27		obrut has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-16 10:13:32	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 10:38:29	▬▬▶	pitr6 has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 10:38:34		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-16 10:39:09		pitr has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-16 10:39:21		pitr6 has left #gemini ("https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge")
2020-09-16 10:39:45	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 10:43:26	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 10:44:03		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-16 10:44:52	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 11:34:50	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 12:01:34		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-16 12:21:02		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-16 12:21:09	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 12:22:02		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Changing host)
2020-09-16 12:22:02	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 12:29:32	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 12:39:34	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 12:48:39		pitr has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-16 12:51:46		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-16 13:03:55	▬▬▶	ged has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 13:04:19	▬▬▶	HomoSacer has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 13:04:22	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-16 13:10:51	ged	???
2020-09-16 13:11:15	ged	Oups
2020-09-16 13:11:20	ged	That was my cat
2020-09-16 13:11:25	ged	Sorry
2020-09-16 13:12:11	felix	<3 kitty
2020-09-16 13:12:31	ged	Cat #1 just attacked cat #2 because she was jealous
2020-09-16 13:13:48	felix	Hee!
2020-09-16 13:13:54	ged	Btw, the nord color scheme is amazing
2020-09-16 13:14:10	ged	Excuse me, but I don't know what it means when you say "Hee!"
2020-09-16 13:15:04	felix	I thought that was funny.
2020-09-16 13:16:08	ged	Oh so it's how you laugh on the internet?
2020-09-16 13:16:29	ged	Sorry, I didn't get it
2020-09-16 13:18:27	felix	Not sure how one is supposed to do it.
2020-09-16 13:19:51	ged	np, sorry, I might be weird
2020-09-16 13:36:43		ged has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-16 13:38:30	▬▬▶	ged has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 13:43:12		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-16 14:09:49		ged has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-16 14:58:27	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 15:44:41	kevinsan	/who
2020-09-16 15:46:14	felix	Who indeed!
2020-09-16 15:47:17	kevinsan	hi felix! i am testing the tiny irc client kirc, and creating some noise - sorry!
2020-09-16 15:48:12	kevinsan	oh, since you're here felix, I found this https://www.nucleisys.com/product/rvipes/ux600/
2020-09-16 15:48:52	felix	I'll have to look up this client!
2020-09-16 15:49:20	kevinsan	awesome risc-v cpu that had support added to the risc-v toolchain since april, so i think we might see a cheap risc-v linux board soonish
2020-09-16 15:49:43	felix	And damn, that page takes its time to load. But okay!
2020-09-16 15:49:43	kevinsan	it's on HN at the moment https://github.com/mcpcpc/kirc
2020-09-16 15:50:03	companion_cube	kevinsan: does it run linux? :p
2020-09-16 15:50:13	kevinsan	two days after I got IRC over telnet figured out so I can send messages via Gemini client
2020-09-16 15:51:41	kevinsan	companion_cube, i don't even know a board that uses it yet, but the silicon must exist. looking at the specs, there's no reason why it can't run linux
2020-09-16 15:51:57	companion_cube	well, does linux support risc-v? :p
2020-09-16 15:52:56	xfnw	yes, but i think only Debian works on it at the moment
2020-09-16 15:52:57	kevinsan	um, yes?
2020-09-16 15:53:02	xj9	i think i remember drew devault posting about building alpine linux on a riscv system
2020-09-16 15:53:32	companion_cube	oh ok, that's cool
2020-09-16 15:54:29	companion_cube	if they make a raspi like I might buy that some day
2020-09-16 15:55:05	kevinsan	i hope it's nothing like a raspi :)
2020-09-16 15:56:00	companion_cube	I mean in size and power :p
2020-09-16 15:56:09	companion_cube	or do you expect it to be faster?
2020-09-16 15:56:54	kevinsan	i don't know - i'd take openness over performance.
2020-09-16 15:58:13	companion_cube	agree, up to a certain point
2020-09-16 15:59:43	kevinsan	the thing is, when you scale back the layers of abstraction, you can get a lot of snappy performance from old hardware.
2020-09-16 16:00:56	kevinsan	on the other hand, i wrote some simple C code recenty, and was reminded of how tedious and risky it can be.
2020-09-16 16:01:09	kevinsan	so, yeah - agreed, up to a point! :_
2020-09-16 16:01:13	companion_cube	if it were to be useful as a somewhat general purpose computer, it still needs to, say: read audio/video, run a graphical interface…
2020-09-16 16:01:16	companion_cube	kevinsan: try rust ;)
2020-09-16 16:01:18	companion_cube	(oops)
2020-09-16 16:02:11	kevinsan	i'm thinking about learning some rust, but i'm still on my 'back to basics' mission of rediscovery.
2020-09-16 16:02:32	companion_cube	going to the roots is fun, yes
2020-09-16 16:02:43	companion_cube	but rust at least takes the risky and tedious sides away :)
2020-09-16 16:03:01	companion_cube	(and introduces some fighting with the compiler instead)
2020-09-16 16:03:32	felix	Performance is hardly an issue. NetBSD runs on incredibly old systems.
2020-09-16 16:03:50		HomoSacer has quit (quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-16 16:03:56	felix	Alpine Linux might have trouble with older CPUs, being Linux, but it's still comparably lightweight.
2020-09-16 16:04:03	companion_cube	alpine is probably a good idea :p
2020-09-16 16:04:13	felix	Yeah, except for the release cycle.
2020-09-16 16:04:42	kevinsan	do they have a debian-like evolutionary path, or is it the opposite?
2020-09-16 16:06:22	felix	I think there's a new release every six months, and they get updates for another 18.
2020-09-16 16:06:52	felix	Makes sense for appliances. For the desktop, I'll take LTS.
2020-09-16 16:06:58	companion_cube	what's wrong with that?
2020-09-16 16:07:03	companion_cube	for a desktop I'd rather have more recent stuff
2020-09-16 16:07:45	felix	Sure, if you don't mind risking to break stuff with each upgrade.
2020-09-16 16:07:54	felix	Assuming it's made to be upgraded in place.
2020-09-16 16:08:10	felix	Which I'm not sure of, because of the focus on appliances.
2020-09-16 16:09:19	kevinsan	seems quite fast to me. the shine's gone of shiny for me, it's usually superficial shine in any case. i'm all about stability and dependability these days
2020-09-16 16:09:58	felix	Exactly! Otherwise it *is* a nice distro, light and clean.
2020-09-16 16:10:21	felix	It's lighter than Puppy Linux in fact. Pretty amazing.
2020-09-16 16:10:42	felix	Well-documented, too, and easy to admin.
2020-09-16 16:11:16	companion_cube	(I think it contains rustup so I'm good :P)
2020-09-16 16:11:18	kevinsan	arch seems to come up a lot when i'm searching for stuff - their docs are really well written
2020-09-16 16:11:31	felix	It's also popular.
2020-09-16 16:11:43	companion_cube	arch is nice, but only on desktop
2020-09-16 16:12:54	kevinsan	i tend to use xfce, so forgoe a lot of modern desktop niceties in favour of light and consistent.
2020-09-16 16:20:02	felix	What niceties would those be, anyway?
2020-09-16 16:21:10	companion_cube	I use i3, but it'd be hard to not have a browser and pdf reader
2020-09-16 16:21:12	companion_cube	for example
2020-09-16 16:21:35	felix	What's that have to do with the desktop environment?
2020-09-16 16:22:28	companion_cube	I mean, I at least need some graphic programs
2020-09-16 16:22:40	companion_cube	not directly related, sorry
2020-09-16 16:25:09	felix	Well, yes, that's a problem nowadays, more generally.
2020-09-16 16:29:30	kevinsan	yes companion_cube, i get that - so i3 gives you the best of both worlds. like tmux with graphics tacked on?
2020-09-16 16:29:48	companion_cube	kind of, yes
2020-09-16 16:29:55	companion_cube	navigation via keyboard
2020-09-16 16:30:09	companion_cube	firefox and evince and mpv, the rest is in terminals
2020-09-16 16:40:20	▬▬▶	HomoSacer has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 16:43:19	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 16:48:07	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-16 16:49:32	companion_cube	👋
2020-09-16 16:50:04		HomoSacer has quit (quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-09-16 18:02:11		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-16 18:22:08	▬▬▶	pitr has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 18:53:58	timemachine	does any one have a quick reference of a regex that matches a gemini url?
2020-09-16 18:54:48	companion_cube	`gemini://[^ ]*` ? :p
2020-09-16 18:56:39	timemachine	fairenough. :)
2020-09-16 19:26:51	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 19:29:29	lukee	good morrow inhabitants of geminiland
2020-09-16 19:30:49	lukee	found this via HN. Whilst it is about https not gemini, it is actually quite a reasonable yet entertaining overview of how TLX works
2020-09-16 19:30:51	lukee	https://howhttps.works/
2020-09-16 19:31:08	lukee	TLX->TLS
2020-09-16 19:32:42	lukee	obv it takes the view that server certs should be signed by a CA, but just skip that bit and eat up your TOFU
2020-09-16 19:39:29	▬▬▶	HomoSacer has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 19:58:51		HomoSacer has quit (quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-09-16 20:18:41	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 20:20:44	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 20:22:23	acdw	Got a proposal fer yall: gemini://gemlog.blue/users/acdw/1600277960.gmi
2020-09-16 20:26:24	@tomasino	so many levels to it
2020-09-16 20:26:25	@tomasino	:P
2020-09-16 20:27:08	acdw	hehe
2020-09-16 20:27:10	acdw	:^)
2020-09-16 20:27:24	lukee	great stuff acdw
2020-09-16 20:27:38	acdw	i am actually thinking of forking elpher to render more line types, and will include the :^)
2020-09-16 20:27:41	acdw	thanks lukee
2020-09-16 20:28:20	lukee	irony is a dish best served incomprehended
2020-09-16 20:28:30	acdw	oh that's good lol
2020-09-16 20:28:52	acdw	can we ,grab in here?
2020-09-16 20:28:55	acdw	,grab lukee
2020-09-16 20:28:55	tildebot	[Quotes] Quote added
2020-09-16 20:28:57	acdw	yeeee
2020-09-16 20:29:25	lukee	so I'm going to say your proposal is a willful misinterpretation of the spirit of Gemini
2020-09-16 20:29:59	lukee	:^) besides, where will it end
2020-09-16 20:30:12	acdw	:^) indeed
2020-09-16 20:30:23	lukee	BTW what is the ,grab thing?
2020-09-16 20:30:40	acdw	:^) there should totes be linetypes for all sorts of tonal changes
2020-09-16 20:30:54	acdw	 ,grab is for 'tildebot' ? I think it adds your quote to the quote db
2020-09-16 20:30:57	acdw	,quot lukee
2020-09-16 20:31:00	acdw	,quote lukee
2020-09-16 20:31:00	tildebot	[Quotes] lukee: <lukee> irony is a dish best served incomprehended
2020-09-16 20:31:04	acdw	^ like that
2020-09-16 20:31:17	lukee	Oh I see!
2020-09-16 20:31:20	acdw	:D
2020-09-16 20:31:58	lukee	I always hear a different voice when I read a blockquote
2020-09-16 20:32:42	lukee	how does one read the quote db?
2020-09-16 20:33:54	acdw	I have no idea, tbh
2020-09-16 20:33:57	acdw	I just grab quotes
2020-09-16 20:34:02	acdw	you could maybe ask in #bots
2020-09-16 20:34:23	lukee	maybe the point is to grab them to help oneself remember them
2020-09-16 20:34:46	acdw	maybe?
2020-09-16 20:34:54	acdw	,quote acdw
2020-09-16 20:34:54	tildebot	[Quotes] acdw: <acdw> I mean IRC is bae
2020-09-16 20:35:12	acdw	there is https://quotes.tilde.chat/
2020-09-16 20:35:18	lukee	shall I ask what does that mean?
2020-09-16 20:35:20	acdw	but I'm not sure if it picks it up from here
2020-09-16 20:35:52	acdw	"bae" ? bae is slang for "before anyone else" --- pronounced "bay", it's a slang term for your #1, or in this case, just saying IRC is great
2020-09-16 20:36:58	lukee	I'm so not up with IRC slang
2020-09-16 20:37:11	acdw	oh that's regular-people slang
2020-09-16 20:37:24	acdw	,ud bae
2020-09-16 20:37:24	tildebot	[UrbanDictionary] bae: [Bitch] [ain't] [educated]
2020-09-16 20:37:24	lukee	That makes my point even more so
2020-09-16 20:37:27	acdw	oh well
2020-09-16 20:37:29	@tomasino	is that what it stands for?
2020-09-16 20:37:32	acdw	that's apparently also what it can me
2020-09-16 20:37:33	acdw	an
2020-09-16 20:37:44	acdw	tomasino: I've always heard "Before Anyone Else" so
2020-09-16 20:37:45	@tomasino	i knew the meaning, but not that it was an acronym
2020-09-16 20:37:55	@tomasino	this is my bae
2020-09-16 20:38:00	acdw	apparently it's also what tildebot said -- though that's probably erroneous def
2020-09-16 20:38:08	lukee	BTW there is some weird stuff in the quotes db. Glad I'm not in those other channels
2020-09-16 20:38:10	acdw	I can't check at work -- urbandictionary is blocked
2020-09-16 20:38:11	@tomasino	i figured it was an evolution of my beau
2020-09-16 20:38:34	acdw	might be that too --- I would love to see a study of internet etymology
2020-09-16 20:38:41	acdw	lukee: yeah...some are ~weird~ lol
2020-09-16 20:38:49	lukee	I thought it stood for BAE Systems
2020-09-16 20:38:49	@tomasino	https://smspantherpress.wordpress.com/2015/02/11/slang-origins-valentines-day-edition-history-of-bae/
2020-09-16 20:39:19		pitr has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-16 20:40:17	acdw	heck yes
2020-09-16 20:42:25	@tomasino	hooray
2020-09-16 20:43:16	kevinsan	ok, so when those *#$%"! youtubers use 'noob' and pronounce it nyoob, i get annoyed because i think it should be New-Bee
2020-09-16 20:43:22	kevinsan	am i right or wrong?
2020-09-16 20:43:44	@tomasino	you're always wrong on the internet
2020-09-16 20:43:49	acdw	I always say "noob"
2020-09-16 20:43:58	acdw	rhymes with "scoob"
2020-09-16 20:44:02	@tomasino	newb
2020-09-16 20:44:09	acdw	who says "nyoob" ? That's weird
2020-09-16 20:44:14	kevinsan	acdw, sarcasm won't cut it - i want to use outright violence
2020-09-16 20:44:18	kevinsan	:)
2020-09-16 20:44:21	acdw	i disagree w/ that. I think it's either nooooob or noobee
2020-09-16 20:44:31	acdw	kevinsan: then there should also be a violence linetype lol
2020-09-16 20:44:58	acdw	👊👊👊 i am angry
2020-09-16 20:45:14	kevinsan	you're the master if utf, it has to be said
2020-09-16 20:45:19	@tomasino	haha
2020-09-16 20:45:30	lukee	kevinsan: that is because as a brit you pronounce "new" as "nyoo", not "noo"
2020-09-16 20:45:43	kevinsan	i'm such a wimp, that actually bruised me
2020-09-16 20:45:53	kevinsan	emotionally :)
2020-09-16 20:46:12	lukee	why, it was just a linguistic observation
2020-09-16 20:46:21	kevinsan	it's more the hard 'b' or 'bee' that i take issue with.
2020-09-16 20:46:36	kevinsan	lukee, i meant acdw's punches
2020-09-16 20:46:47	lukee	oh dear I need to keep up
2020-09-16 20:46:56	acdw	aw kevinsan sorry
2020-09-16 20:47:05	acdw	newbuh
2020-09-16 20:47:25	acdw	lukee: I figured it was a dialect thing -- I'm from the south, we have lazy mouths
2020-09-16 20:47:51	lukee	acdw: is that a new line type proposal right there?
2020-09-16 20:48:33	lukee	sigh, the problem of reading a chat log backwards :/
2020-09-16 20:49:05	lukee	I should stick to using kevinsan's gemini feed of the IRC log
2020-09-16 20:49:08	acdw	hehe yeah
2020-09-16 20:49:23	acdw	i know the struggle lukee
2020-09-16 20:50:25	lukee	I guess this is one of the delicious parts of IRC, that we dont always know who is talking to whom
2020-09-16 20:50:51	admicos	go one step further, remove nicks on your irc client
2020-09-16 20:51:00	lukee	that is radical
2020-09-16 20:51:21	lukee	is that a thing, or are you joking?
2020-09-16 20:51:46	admicos	well, it can be if you want
2020-09-16 20:53:27	acdw	:^)
2020-09-16 20:53:42	acdw	it's all just me talking to myself ... solipsism
2020-09-16 20:53:55	admicos	acdw: the toggle lines should be :v) and :^)
2020-09-16 20:54:38	acdw	omg yes
2020-09-16 20:54:45	acdw	mind if i add that to the article?
2020-09-16 20:54:49	admicos	sure go for it
2020-09-16 20:55:24	lukee	if I may say :^) is quite a friendly kind of face, not really sarcastic
2020-09-16 20:55:33	acdw	thanks admicos
2020-09-16 20:55:44	acdw	yeah lukee, idk but there's some article on it that mentions how it's a thing they do
2020-09-16 20:55:53	acdw	i'll have to find it and share here
2020-09-16 20:56:40	lukee	dont you need a wink to let the dumbass reader "hey, here comes some sarcasm" ;^)
2020-09-16 20:56:46	acdw	haha
2020-09-16 20:57:19	lukee	reader [know]
2020-09-16 20:57:48	acdw	well of course :^) is impossibel to google for
2020-09-16 20:58:02	acdw	I think we talked about it in here a while ago ... tomasino you have a log of eerything right?
2020-09-16 20:58:02	lukee	the unironically attuned will just see a smiling face of agreement
2020-09-16 20:58:07	@tomasino	i do
2020-09-16 20:58:21	⚡	tomasino has all the logs
2020-09-16 20:58:26	acdw	aw yeah
2020-09-16 20:58:31	acdw	i'll search while i'm on the desk
2020-09-16 20:58:38	@tomasino	i was sharing those on ~black
2020-09-16 20:58:47	@tomasino	need to start pushing them to ~team
2020-09-16 20:58:59	@tomasino	uno-momento
2020-09-16 21:01:45	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.team/~tomasino/irc/log.txt
2020-09-16 21:02:21	lukee	non-verbal signalling in text is actually a real problem
2020-09-16 21:02:50	admicos	use emoji as hand gestures
2020-09-16 21:03:03	lukee	with my boss?
2020-09-16 21:03:06	admicos	sure why not
2020-09-16 21:03:21	@tomasino	(the following is sarcastic)
2020-09-16 21:03:25	@tomasino	solved it
2020-09-16 21:03:39	lukee	sadly he operates in a humour free zone
2020-09-16 21:03:58	admicos	wHaT aBoUt ThiS
2020-09-16 21:04:12	admicos	it's a pita to  type but it kinda works
2020-09-16 21:04:37	lukee	I have resigned myself to the frustrated understatement instead
2020-09-16 21:05:04	lukee	(a rather British sort of solution)
2020-09-16 21:10:06	@tomasino	https://www.brainpickings.org/2013/09/27/shady-characters-irony/
2020-09-16 21:14:22	lukee	great article.
2020-09-16 21:14:29	lukee	I liked this quote: "Alcanter’s point d’ironie dripped with knowing humor: in a nod to the sentiment often conveyed by verbal irony , he described it as “taking the form of a whip,” and, aware that irony loses its sting when it must be signposted in exactly the manner he was proposing, the French name for his new symbol was a pun with the additional meaning of “no irony.”"
2020-09-16 21:16:04	@tomasino	brainpickings does a solid job
2020-09-16 21:16:35	lukee	so maybe acdw's proposal should rather signify that irony is being signified, but not actually intended
2020-09-16 21:16:55	lukee	a double-bluff
2020-09-16 21:17:05	@tomasino	can we get a special symbol for morisettian irony?
2020-09-16 21:17:19	lukee	urgh not its not real irony
2020-09-16 21:17:30	@tomasino	it is now! it's got a special term and everything. :D
2020-09-16 21:17:32	lukee	its just her feeling annoyed
2020-09-16 21:17:36	@tomasino	this is the stupid way language changes
2020-09-16 21:18:05	@tomasino	is there an emoji of a jagged little pill?
2020-09-16 21:18:07	@tomasino	that'd be perfect
2020-09-16 21:18:41	lukee	well, if at least it could be distinguished from the real thing, maybe that is a win
2020-09-16 21:19:18	@tomasino	now i wanna watch that episode of futurama
2020-09-16 21:20:39	lukee	but ironically language does change, so maybe we have to accept a new meaning for our times
2020-09-16 21:21:28	@tomasino	this the internet, where we die upon lonely pedantic hills
2020-09-16 21:21:52	lukee	c'mon we are computer nerds, we die on pedantic hills together
2020-09-16 21:22:38	@tomasino	:D
2020-09-16 21:43:24	xj9	i wonder if ithkuil has a sarcasm tag. or maybe i'm mixing up the grammar of ithkuil and lojban
2020-09-16 22:12:23	acdw	hey yall i'm back and updated the article with the irc quotes
2020-09-16 22:13:30	acdw	also my fav take on "Ironic" is that it's not ironic, but isn't that just a deeper irony? That it's a song called "Ironic" that's not so?
2020-09-16 22:13:47	acdw	and then ... it folds back on itself again, and again, in a never-ending loop of deeper and deeper irony
2020-09-16 22:13:52	acdw	a true Song for Our Times
2020-09-16 22:15:24	acdw	gemini://gemlog.blue/users/acdw/1600277960.gmi btw
2020-09-16 22:15:33	acdw	helloh .. oh .. oh .. oh
2020-09-16 22:23:12		rmgr has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-16 22:24:33	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 22:27:15		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-16 22:29:04		kevinsan has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-16 22:29:52		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-16 22:32:03	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 22:39:23	@tomasino	Oh
2020-09-16 22:41:32	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 22:43:14	acdw	oh, oh oh oh oh
2020-09-16 22:43:17	acdw	O
2020-09-16 22:45:10	@tomasino	the right stuff
2020-09-16 22:53:24		kevinsan has quit (quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-09-16 22:59:49	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 23:00:35		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-16 23:04:18		kevinsan has quit (quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-09-16 23:11:29	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-16 23:40:12	▬▬▶	nxv has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 00:10:55	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 00:12:50		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-17 00:45:27		flexibeast has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-17 01:05:23		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-09-17 02:36:50	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 04:50:02	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 05:58:31		timemachine has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-17 06:02:57		klu has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-09-17 06:11:07	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 08:01:13		flexibeast has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-17 09:02:10	▬▬▶	idf[m] has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 09:02:24	idf[m]	sup
2020-09-17 10:13:37		idf[m] has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-17 10:22:07		kevinsan has quit (quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-09-17 10:22:37	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 10:30:03		kevinsan has quit (quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-09-17 10:37:03	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 11:15:59		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-17 12:24:54	idf	gemini://idf.looting.uk/~dokoissho first userdir yay
2020-09-17 12:29:30	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 12:33:01	kevinsan	Anyone who can list all the bands they've ever seen is bound to have words i want to spend time reading :)
2020-09-17 12:34:15	kevinsan	I mean, Pink Floyd Animals tour way back, and Ryuichi Sakamoto a lot more recently? make sure they write a lot!
2020-09-17 12:43:58	@tomasino	Oh yay, he just joined cosmic too
2020-09-17 12:45:25	idf	nice
2020-09-17 12:59:13	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 13:42:44	login	hi flexibeast
2020-09-17 13:45:16	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 13:47:05		tildebot has quit (quit: Stopping)
2020-09-17 13:47:16	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 14:00:12	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-17 14:24:30	kayw	https://i.salejandro.me/browser_demo1.png update on the mobile browser i'm writing
2020-09-17 14:24:55	kayw	can't do connections atm but i'm getting the shape of the browser first
2020-09-17 14:32:13	felix	It's a start!
2020-09-17 14:32:30	kayw	sure is!
2020-09-17 14:32:40	kayw	I'm taking it as an opprotunity to learn Lua
2020-09-17 14:33:20	kayw	sadly, the GTK library only has support for Lua 5.3 but I dont mind that
2020-09-17 14:33:34	@tomasino	lua!
2020-09-17 14:33:51	lukee	kayw: at least you have night mode sorted
2020-09-17 14:34:19	lukee	is it android or cross-platform?
2020-09-17 14:37:25	felix	How do you make Lua / Gtk apps for Android?
2020-09-17 14:37:39	kayw	It's not for android.
2020-09-17 14:37:51	kayw	It's for mobile Linux devices like the pinephone
2020-09-17 14:38:03	kayw	but since it's GTK it'll scale for desktops
2020-09-17 14:38:18	felix	Oh!
2020-09-17 14:39:49	lukee	the more devices, the merrier
2020-09-17 14:40:26	felix	Definitely!
2020-09-17 14:42:02	kayw	also lukee: It'll use the GTK theme that you have set. No need to make a dark mode!
2020-09-17 14:42:20	lukee	so, pink with blue spots mode it is then
2020-09-17 14:42:33	kayw	yep
2020-09-17 14:44:33	lukee	if there is a windows build I can provide feedback, but that might not be high up your priority list
2020-09-17 14:46:38	kayw	I need to do more research into compiling Lua, but I'm 95% sure that you're not supposed to
2020-09-17 14:47:10	kayw	even then, you just run the lua file and have the modules installed
2020-09-17 14:47:30	companion_cube	it's probably too dynamic to be compilable well
2020-09-17 14:47:55	lukee	but I suppose you have to assemble the GTK libraries in with the lua script at least
2020-09-17 14:48:25	felix	There are plenty of ways to install Lua on Windows. To package apps with an interpreter, not so sure.
2020-09-17 14:48:34	felix	Not outside of Love2D in any event.
2020-09-17 14:49:14	lukee	whoever came up with that name struck marketing gold
2020-09-17 14:49:29	felix	So it's a safer bet to install Lua, install whichever Gtk binding is used here, and run the app.
2020-09-17 14:49:53	lukee	sounds good, I'd give it a try
2020-09-17 14:49:54	felix	:D
2020-09-17 14:50:09	wgreenhouse	felix: ...someone should make a love2d gemini browser :D
2020-09-17 14:50:19	wgreenhouse	game toolkits are some of the best at being crossplatform
2020-09-17 14:50:32	kayw	you can also use the WSL and some X11 hackiness
2020-09-17 14:50:38	felix	Oh! Yes they are! There's even an Android package.
2020-09-17 14:51:07	kayw	speaking of which, i should probably try that
2020-09-17 14:51:29	felix	Ended up not installing it. My one Love2D game so far isn't touchscreen-friendly.
2020-09-17 14:52:04		nxv has left #gemini ("WeeChat 2.9")
2020-09-17 14:53:02	lukee	It is interesting to speculate - what is the smallest GUI library needed to build a graphical Gemini client?
2020-09-17 14:53:12	lukee	(cross platform if poss)
2020-09-17 14:53:48	felix	I'm not sure if Tk or FLTK is smaller.
2020-09-17 14:54:35	felix	And you kind of need a rich text control, or else to write your own.
2020-09-17 14:54:47	felix	Oh! Pyglet has rich text support.
2020-09-17 14:55:18	felix	Even though it's not otherwise designed for GUIs.
2020-09-17 14:55:29	lukee	no you dont need a rich text control
2020-09-17 14:55:33	lukee	since gemini is line based
2020-09-17 14:55:44	lukee	every line has its own style, no sub line styles
2020-09-17 14:56:08	lukee	really a gemini UI is a glorified menu in its simplest
2020-09-17 14:56:45	felix	But each line must be able to soft-wrap, and take different styles.
2020-09-17 14:57:01	felix	At the very least margins and colors.
2020-09-17 14:57:05	kayw	https://i.salejandro.me/eVNye3.png got it working on windows
2020-09-17 14:57:33	lukee	yes you need a menu of styleable labels and buttons
2020-09-17 14:58:04	lukee	kayw: nice
2020-09-17 14:58:24	lukee	now onto the juicy bits of networking and UI
2020-09-17 14:58:28	kayw	yep
2020-09-17 14:58:40	kayw	thankfully solderpunk made a Lua gemini client so i can refer to that
2020-09-17 14:59:12	kayw	I also need to figure out history
2020-09-17 14:59:14	lukee	I think it was Picasso who said "good artists copy, the best artists steal"
2020-09-17 14:59:44	lukee	kayw: just a stack with a cursor to an index in it
2020-09-17 15:00:41	kayw	yeah, the history is just going to be a table that when you go back the last item in the list is removed
2020-09-17 15:00:43	lukee	or even just a stack if you just want to implement "back" but not "forward"
2020-09-17 15:00:57	kayw	yeah forward is going to be a pain in the ass
2020-09-17 15:01:26	felix	It's not a big problem when you're just scrolling through a command-line history.
2020-09-17 15:01:35	lukee	its not too bad - just clear the top of the stack whenever the user goes forward
2020-09-17 15:01:40	felix	But for a Gemini client, yeah, just make it go back for now.
2020-09-17 15:02:39	kayw	if I was using WebView, then it would be able to handle forwards and backwards in history
2020-09-17 15:03:36	lukee	felix: FLTK is nice and small. It seems to have a wrapped text label thing which might do its own text wrap: https://www.fltk.org/doc-1.3/common.html
2020-09-17 15:04:49	lukee	kayw: yes a native web renderer can do a lot for you like history, styling etc. but it is heavier of course
2020-09-17 15:04:55	felix	I seem to remember it has something better, but the documentation is... leafy.
2020-09-17 15:05:47	felix	I'd stick to Tk, I'm familiar with it and I've already demonstrated a gmi viewer.
2020-09-17 15:08:52	lukee	I wasnt trying to suggest you should build one :)
2020-09-17 15:10:28	lukee	But in general I think all that is needed is some kind of vertical list control, containing a collection of styled texts, and perhaps buttons for interactive links
2020-09-17 15:10:57	lukee	or some way to catch clicks on an element that is a link
2020-09-17 15:11:40	lukee	Maybe a GUI can be even simpler than that
2020-09-17 15:12:54	lukee	a plain text box, where a double click selects out to the whitespace boundary of a word, then the UI inspects the selection for a link
2020-09-17 15:13:02	lukee	pretty minimal
2020-09-17 15:14:06	lukee	the hair-shirt gemini client (TM)
2020-09-17 15:15:09	felix	In principle you can go as low-tech as those less-based clients.
2020-09-17 15:15:40	felix	But I switched from Bombadillo to Amfora in the console after not very long.
2020-09-17 15:16:25	lukee	I think there are 2 minimal elements to the UI:
2020-09-17 15:16:35	felix	It helps a lot with visually parsing a page.
2020-09-17 15:16:44	lukee	1. a scrollable display of (plain or styled text)
2020-09-17 15:16:49	lukee	2. a way to activate a link
2020-09-17 15:17:11	lukee	anything else is aesthetic and usability augmentation
2020-09-17 15:19:30	lukee	3. An address bar or equivalent where you can randomly jump to a full URL
2020-09-17 15:19:37	felix	Sure, but those are important.
2020-09-17 15:19:49	lukee	4. a back button (or back command)
2020-09-17 15:20:04	lukee	what else is *essential* for the UI?
2020-09-17 15:20:11	felix	I couldn't help but notice how clients tend to have that thing where you hit space and enter a link number.
2020-09-17 15:20:24	lukee	some do, that is a terminal thing
2020-09-17 15:20:25	felix	Never saw that before getting started with Gemini.
2020-09-17 15:20:42	felix	I think that's significant.
2020-09-17 15:21:08	lukee	TBH I think it is a bit hacky. Its only necessary as you can't directly interact with the content
2020-09-17 15:21:25	lukee	but I'm not a terminal nerd
2020-09-17 15:22:04	lukee	the number thing for links is the implementation of feature 2 above
2020-09-17 15:22:37	felix	You can in pretty much any text-based web browser.
2020-09-17 15:23:12	lukee	it looks a bit ugly IMO if the user chooses to use their own link indexing in the content
2020-09-17 15:23:25	lukee	which is not uncommon
2020-09-17 15:23:44	felix	And Amfora adds a clunky link selection mode.
2020-09-17 15:24:43	lukee	how does that work? another way to activate  a link or to step through them?
2020-09-17 15:24:45	felix	It's simple and obvious to do it with numbers -- for a programmer.
2020-09-17 15:25:01	felix	You hit Enter and then press Tab repeatedly.
2020-09-17 15:25:01	lukee	we just need to agree, do we start from 0 or 1 :)
2020-09-17 15:25:37	felix	I panicked a little when thinking how I'd do it in Tk.
2020-09-17 15:26:11	felix	But then figured, the correct answer is to do it right.
2020-09-17 15:26:29	lukee	can't you just have a table of references to the links, and then look up into that?
2020-09-17 15:26:45	felix	Yes, you can!
2020-09-17 15:27:16	lukee	did you decide to do any more work on your gemini viewer to make it interactive?
2020-09-17 15:27:29	felix	Nope. Been considering it, just in case.
2020-09-17 15:27:42	felix	Would be nice to make it navigate the local filesystem.
2020-09-17 15:29:49	felix	But it's not very useful to be honest.
2020-09-17 15:29:59	lukee	that would be nice - what would be the advantage over using the terminal/shell
2020-09-17 15:30:24	felix	Apart from not keeping a terminal busy? Very little.
2020-09-17 15:31:31	lukee	why not wire it up to gemget - it can do all the gemini retrieval work and just pass the text back to your viewer?
2020-09-17 15:32:17	lukee	I guess you could even evoke it from the shell gemget geminiurl | tkviewer
2020-09-17 15:32:25	felix	Because that's silly, and pointless when so many clients exist.
2020-09-17 15:33:20	lukee	hmmm - is that a damming indictment of all the gemini software development ;)
2020-09-17 15:33:31	felix	And would add an extra dependency when it's simple enough to write the network code.
2020-09-17 15:33:49	lukee	fair enough if you feel like looking into it
2020-09-17 15:33:52	felix	Well, dunno, people know better why they wrote all those clients.
2020-09-17 15:34:14	lukee	personally I find network software a bit dull, even if it is important
2020-09-17 15:34:20	felix	I wrote two of my own for Gopher back in the day. Had reasons then.
2020-09-17 15:36:11	lukee	well its a lot of work to go from a sort of prototype to something polished for everyday use
2020-09-17 15:36:24	lukee	for a full client or server
2020-09-17 15:36:56	felix	Indeed, that's why mine aren't. But at the time there was nothing better.
2020-09-17 15:37:27	felix	Now there are excellent multi-protocol clients in active development.
2020-09-17 15:38:30	lukee	I suppose sometimes we feel the urge to scratch an itch, other times you just want to use something that already works
2020-09-17 15:41:09	lukee	anyhoo, I have to dash off do some other stuff now. Catch you later!
2020-09-17 15:41:31		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-17 17:48:02		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-17 20:30:31		enpo has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-17 20:31:06	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 01:15:53		fleeky has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-18 04:19:25	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 05:59:01		flexibeast has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-09-18 06:08:10		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-18 06:52:37		wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-18 06:52:40		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-18 06:52:43		griffin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-18 06:52:46		englishm has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-18 06:52:46	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 06:53:36	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 06:53:37	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 07:08:50	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 07:24:26		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-18 08:28:51		klu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-18 09:58:50	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 11:09:55	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 13:10:12		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-18 14:32:15		sandra has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-18 14:33:39	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 14:59:45	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 15:37:24		sandra has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-18 16:03:03	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 16:33:53	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 16:35:31	acdw	hello yall!  I'm thinking about using smart quotes in my new gemlog posts, do you think taht's a good idea or nah?
2020-09-18 16:35:47	acdw	like, what do you think is the UTF coverage of clients? I'm sure it's pretty good
2020-09-18 16:35:57	acdw	Also what are your opinions on "fancy quotes"?
2020-09-18 16:40:29	felix	I don't much care for them. And I *think* clients are generally good about supporting UTF-8, but, not sure.
2020-09-18 16:42:07	admicos	acdw: as long as you don't use them inside code or anything someone would need to copy, i'd say go ahead
2020-09-18 16:42:15	acdw	the default encoding is utf, so now i'm thinking about it, it's prlly good
2020-09-18 16:42:24	admicos	assuming accessibility software takes care of them i assume most people wouldn't mind
2020-09-18 16:42:36	acdw	I remember now: my issue was FONTS. How many fonts do you think *don't* have the smart quotes in them?
2020-09-18 16:42:49	acdw	hm yes makese sense admicos -- i'd have to do some fanciness with ``` blocks
2020-09-18 16:43:10	admicos	wait, you don't mean not everyone has 1gb of fonts from the same family just to get all known characters?
2020-09-18 16:43:17	felix	It would have to be a pretty crappy font.
2020-09-18 16:43:45	admicos	s/don't//g
2020-09-18 16:45:32	acdw	lol who knows
2020-09-18 16:45:41	acdw	I guess it *is* 2020
2020-09-18 16:45:57	acdw	so like, most fonts should have basic quotes -- and I'm thinking guillemets
2020-09-18 16:46:20	acdw	if other languages can have their quotes (which aren't fancy, just quotes), then english can have its "fancy" quotes
2020-09-18 16:46:32	acdw	it's not my fault that ASCII is anglophonic
2020-09-18 16:46:37	acdw	angloglyphic**
2020-09-18 16:50:07	felix	Fair enough.
2020-09-18 16:50:27	acdw	:D
2020-09-18 16:50:28	acdw	ty felix
2020-09-18 16:50:41	companion_cube	« hello »
2020-09-18 16:50:46	felix	:D
2020-09-18 16:53:51	felix	But seriously: to open my biggest site in Lynx and be able to see the emoji just fine...
2020-09-18 16:54:02	felix	...that's a big reminder of how far we've come.
2020-09-18 16:54:23	acdw	oh that's cool. yes it's pretty rad!
2020-09-18 16:54:23	felix	I still remember when encodings were a big issue. And a bigger mess.
2020-09-18 16:54:29	companion_cube	a client that doesn't support utf8 is broken, plain and simple
2020-09-18 16:54:32	acdw	and you're right -- plenty of geminiauts use emoji
2020-09-18 16:54:37	acdw	aight then, quotes it is
2020-09-18 16:54:40	acdw	curly it up
2020-09-18 17:21:05	acdw	another q: do yall know any gemini modes for emacs besides jmcbray's? Or how to set a font-lock for a region?
2020-09-18 17:40:09		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-18 18:00:37		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-18 18:11:48	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 18:20:51		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-18 18:46:32		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-18 18:48:50	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 19:42:42	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 20:23:11	▬▬▶	acdw6 has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 21:30:22		rmgr has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-18 21:30:55	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 21:31:51		rmgr has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-18 21:32:29	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 21:48:56	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 22:19:45	▬▬▶	ged has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 22:25:34		ged has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-18 22:33:15		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-18 22:51:23		acdw6 has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-18 22:53:30		xfnw has quit (Changing host)
2020-09-18 22:53:30	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 23:07:36	ericonr	hi-ah, anyone using https://github.com/MasterQ32/gurl ?
2020-09-18 23:08:05	ericonr	I think it's the only gemini implementation I could find using BearSSL
2020-09-18 23:13:46		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-18 23:14:46	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 23:17:44		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-18 23:24:13	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-18 23:29:29		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-18 23:40:57	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 01:02:13		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-19 01:06:05	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 01:07:04		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-19 01:07:09	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 01:53:41		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-19 01:55:40	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 02:28:41	xj9	>bearssl
2020-09-19 02:28:58	xj9	omg that's exactly the SSL lib i've been looking for
2020-09-19 02:29:07	xj9	thanks ericonr
2020-09-19 03:06:40		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-19 03:12:02	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 03:12:27	ericonr	heh, np
2020-09-19 04:02:01	@tomasino	anyone have visibility into kristall on macos?
2020-09-19 04:10:05	swift	tomasino, what do you mean by visibility? (i use kristall on macos)
2020-09-19 04:13:12	@tomasino	i didn't see a binary on the website
2020-09-19 04:13:17	@tomasino	did you have any issues building?
2020-09-19 04:14:17	swift	the first time yes, but the instructions were updated I believe and I had it up and running in minutes
2020-09-19 04:15:21	swift	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/blob/master/BUILDING.md#macos
2020-09-19 04:48:07	▬▬▶	dokoissho has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 04:52:47		dokoissho has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-19 04:53:36	▬▬▶	dokoissho has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 05:47:44		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-19 05:49:27	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 06:10:28	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 06:10:58		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-19 06:15:42	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 06:53:19		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-19 07:03:36	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 07:38:08		tastytea has quit (quit: Gateway shutdown)
2020-09-19 07:38:13	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 07:41:39	▬▬▶	brainfunnel has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 07:56:18		tastytea has quit (quit: Gateway shutdown)
2020-09-19 07:56:37	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 08:29:22		brainfunnel has quit (quit: whoops)
2020-09-19 09:59:02	xq	yeah there was a wonderful PR last week or so that updated the build instructions
2020-09-19 09:59:23	xq	sadly, i have to admit: i don't think i'll have time to improve kristall anymore :(
2020-09-19 09:59:33	xq	i should just package the current state into a 0.4 with a new binary release
2020-09-19 10:40:35	jan	xq: that's sad to hear :(
2020-09-19 10:41:06	xq	yeah, but that's the way of kinda all of my hobby projects
2020-09-19 10:41:13	xq	i have no fun in maintaining stuff
2020-09-19 11:00:42	jan	xq: i known what you mean
2020-09-19 11:01:46	xq	yeah. i'm also quite happy with the state kristall is at right now
2020-09-19 11:02:04	jan	totally
2020-09-19 11:03:00	jan	ncgopher still has a way to go, but i've been quite busy lately
2020-09-19 11:12:05	jan	bbl
2020-09-19 11:31:20	@tomasino	Kristall is pretty great as is
2020-09-19 12:05:56	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 12:06:15	lukee	greetings, citizens of geminiland
2020-09-19 12:07:10	lukee	Is it my imagination or is CAPCOM frozen for a couple of days? Seems surprising no updates since 17-Sep
2020-09-19 12:10:23	admicos	i didn't even notice the date header but yeah it's a little frozen
2020-09-19 12:13:01	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 12:30:02	lukee	maybe I should just curb my CAPCOM FOMO
2020-09-19 12:30:47	lukee	its not a bug, its a feature to help us all calm down
2020-09-19 12:40:23	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 12:41:16	xq	<tomasino> Kristall is pretty great as is
2020-09-19 12:41:16	xq	<3
2020-09-19 12:51:14	oms	kristall user checking in. thanks xq!
2020-09-19 12:54:22	xq	\o/
2020-09-19 12:54:23	xq	<3
2020-09-19 13:18:49	oms	would you accept any patches? the one thing I was thinking of hacking up for myself is shorter tab names
2020-09-19 13:19:10	oms	e.g. if a text/gemini starts with an h1, calling that a title and putting that in the tab
2020-09-19 13:36:59		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-19 13:53:12	lukee	oms: the first heading (or para if none) does seem to be the de facto page "title" used by some clients and search engines like GUS
2020-09-19 14:06:58	kvothe	allo!
2020-09-19 14:13:34	kvothe	lukee: yeppers, CAPCOM seems frozen
2020-09-19 14:19:58	acdw	aww capcom
2020-09-19 14:41:26	xq	<oms> would you accept any patches? the one thing I was thinking of hacking up for myself is shorter tab names
2020-09-19 14:41:29	xq	i love accepting tabs!
2020-09-19 14:41:32	xq	*patches
2020-09-19 14:41:33	xq	#brainfart
2020-09-19 14:41:52	xq	so if you want to do that: go ahead
2020-09-19 14:42:08	xq	although i want to implement a non-trivial change *some day* which would support gemini-stream
2020-09-19 14:52:29	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 15:03:45		lukee has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-19 15:56:25	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 15:56:49	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-19 16:07:25	@tomasino	stream++
2020-09-19 16:41:20		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-19 17:08:44		sandra has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-19 17:12:45	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 18:26:38		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-19 19:44:26		kevinsan has quit (quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-09-19 19:44:34	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 19:56:43	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 19:56:43	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-19 19:56:43	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-09-19 19:56:43	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 105 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 103 normals)
2020-09-19 19:56:43	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-19 19:57:07	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-19 19:58:36		kevinsan has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-09-19 20:49:53	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 20:49:53	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-19 20:49:53	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-09-19 20:49:53	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 104 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 102 normals)
2020-09-19 20:49:53	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-19 20:50:18	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-19 21:07:16	▬▬▶	whatsyourask has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 21:12:49	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 21:44:44		whatsyourask has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-19 21:51:42	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 21:51:42	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-19 21:51:42	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-09-19 21:51:42	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 105 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 103 normals)
2020-09-19 21:51:42	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-19 21:52:06	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-19 21:52:48		dokoissho has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-19 21:54:35	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 21:54:35	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-19 21:54:35	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-09-19 21:54:35	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 104 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 102 normals)
2020-09-19 21:54:35	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-19 21:54:59	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-19 23:36:23		tildebot has quit (quit: Stopping)
2020-09-19 23:36:34	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-19 23:45:49		tildebot has quit (quit: Stopping)
2020-09-19 23:45:55	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 00:20:48	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 01:15:02	▬▬▶	dokoissho has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 03:29:02		dokoissho has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-20 03:48:14		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-20 08:12:31	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 08:14:13		rodolphoeck has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-20 09:10:45	sandra	CAPCOM doesn’t seem to have updated for a few days.
2020-09-20 09:34:39	Cadey	I'm gonna fix my Gemini server today
2020-09-20 10:42:52		kevinsan has quit (quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-09-20 10:43:15	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 10:44:25		kevinsan has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-09-20 10:52:50	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 10:57:27	kevinsan	i think there are gremlins in space. my irc client is also acting up on the tilde.chat server(s)
2020-09-20 10:59:06	kevinsan	weechat is working fine, but hexchat seems confused about something. i did upgrade my (znc) bouncer, so maybe related.
2020-09-20 13:15:04	flexibeast	CAPCOM seems to have updated. :-D
2020-09-20 13:17:01	ℹ 	Siinamon is now known as siina
2020-09-20 14:09:33	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 14:40:15	kvothe	o/
2020-09-20 14:41:15	felix	Hello!
2020-09-20 14:41:20	kvothe	heya felix!
2020-09-20 14:41:25	felix	How are you?
2020-09-20 14:41:40	kvothe	Doing really well! Slept in, that felt pretty great :D
2020-09-20 14:41:45	kvothe	how about yourself?
2020-09-20 14:41:47	felix	Good to hear!
2020-09-20 14:42:00	felix	Got a new article up. And new plans.
2020-09-20 14:42:08	felix	Started on a side project, too.
2020-09-20 14:43:00	kvothe	woo new things!
2020-09-20 14:44:13	felix	Feels pretty good!
2020-09-20 14:58:13	felix	Though it's not *quite* as nerdy as tinkering with Plan 9. ;)
2020-09-20 15:00:12	kvothe	can you share a link to your article? :D
2020-09-20 15:00:23	@tomasino	I like projects
2020-09-20 15:00:37	kvothe	if a project brings you joy, it's a good project :D
2020-09-20 15:01:06	felix	gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~nttp/writing/other-tiny-scripting.md
2020-09-20 15:01:38	kvothe	thankee!
2020-09-20 15:02:32	felix	And well, I'm learning new things. Might even help a few people.
2020-09-20 15:03:38	kvothe	Woo dispatch tables!
2020-09-20 15:05:16	felix	Makes more sense for an open-ended language like this.
2020-09-20 15:05:36	felix	Basic can make do with a switch statement.
2020-09-20 15:06:06	kvothe	It's probably one of my favorite programming constructs :)
2020-09-20 15:07:36	felix	Can't blame you.
2020-09-20 15:14:41	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 15:15:17	⚡	felix waves!
2020-09-20 15:17:45	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 15:19:23	felix	o/
2020-09-20 16:13:18	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 16:13:27		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-09-20 16:14:15	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 16:14:24	felix	Hello!
2020-09-20 16:14:57	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 16:29:43	xq	heya
2020-09-20 16:34:24	acdw	hello!
2020-09-20 16:34:39	felix	How's it going?
2020-09-20 16:34:46	acdw	well! I see CAPCOM is unfrozen
2020-09-20 16:40:27	felix	So it seems!
2020-09-20 16:43:46	acdw	so I'm catching up
2020-09-20 16:46:57	felix	Good thing Geminispace is not exactly busy as yet.
2020-09-20 16:47:39	acdw	hehe yep
2020-09-20 17:41:56		lanodan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-20 17:43:55	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 18:12:15		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-20 18:57:06		anton|pw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-20 18:57:29		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-20 18:57:31	easeout	wow yeah there are something like 40 new things
2020-09-20 18:58:49	easeout	at least, my script sees 40 "add" lines in a diff of capcom from yesterday
2020-09-20 18:58:55	easeout	ish
2020-09-20 18:59:36	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 18:59:40	acdw	oh boy !!!
2020-09-20 19:01:26	easeout	i think 9/16 begins the new articles.
2020-09-20 19:01:57	acdw	ye
2020-09-20 19:05:36	easeout	spoke too soon. i remember some of these since as recent as 9/17
2020-09-20 19:38:22	@tomasino	How's gemini feeling
2020-09-20 19:38:56	acdw	good, you?
2020-09-20 19:38:58	acdw	lol
2020-09-20 19:39:08	acdw	actually I've got a pretty good setup in elpher now, so yeah, it comfy
2020-09-20 19:39:27	acdw	I just need to figure out how to turn off smart-quotes in ``` blcoks when authoring and like, i'll be *SeT*
2020-09-20 19:40:45	@tomasino	Doing well. Did some cosmic writing earlier
2020-09-20 19:40:57	acdw	nice! I still need to sign up lol
2020-09-20 19:41:04	@tomasino	Today was a board game day with the kiddo
2020-09-20 20:12:15	kevinsan	how did their attention hold up?
2020-09-20 20:15:04	@tomasino	good good
2020-09-20 20:15:09	@tomasino	he's a good gamer
2020-09-20 20:15:32	kevinsan	how old is he?
2020-09-20 20:17:31	@tomasino	8
2020-09-20 20:18:08	kevinsan	wow, that's impressive. i suppose it helps having a dad who's a bit of an expert in the field :)
2020-09-20 20:18:37	kevinsan	i have an 8 year old daughter who has an almost pathalogical aversion to learning anything from me!
2020-09-20 20:42:26		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-20 21:22:41	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 22:01:23	lukee	seeing as we discussed this on the channel not so long ago, I have written a short riposte to acdw's proposal for a new line type
2020-09-20 22:01:29	lukee	to signify sarcasm
2020-09-20 22:01:49	lukee	I do hope it will be taken seriously
2020-09-20 22:01:51	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/blog/20-Sep-2020_An_improved_scheme_ironic_intent.gmi
2020-09-20 22:08:28	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 22:19:57	kevinsan	are the brackets in the irony-prefix literal, or do the signify grouping?
2020-09-20 22:20:10	lukee	grouping!
2020-09-20 22:20:32	lukee	I'm sure everyone will point out the flaws in my BNF
2020-09-20 22:21:19	lukee	perhaps I should take the brackets out?
2020-09-20 22:21:53	lukee	in fact I will as I didnt use them for the other terms
2020-09-20 22:22:48	kevinsan	'' regardless, what can I say - marvellous is *not* the word.
2020-09-20 22:23:20	lukee	thanks
2020-09-20 22:23:51	lukee	but you dont need the "'" delimiters. They are there for mis-direction
2020-09-20 22:25:32	kevinsan	:)
2020-09-20 22:32:05	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-20 22:36:00	acdw	lukee: love it
2020-09-20 22:36:22	lukee	<3 acdw - thanks
2020-09-20 22:36:23	acdw	really pushing the state of gemini art forward, thank you
2020-09-20 22:37:07	lukee	you provided the seed and we had a great chat on the channel about it, so I wanted to follow up
2020-09-20 23:15:08	acdw	:D
2020-09-20 23:24:43	makeworld	lukee: What did I miss?
2020-09-20 23:26:40	lukee	I posted a reply to acdw's proposal following a chat about sarcasm and irony on the channel - link is above in the chat. 
2020-09-20 23:27:07	acdw	a well-reasoned argument, to be sure
2020-09-20 23:38:18	lukee	ok i have to toddle off now - its late here. Catch up soon o/
2020-09-20 23:38:30		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-20 23:48:19	@tomasino	ciao
2020-09-20 23:49:32		swinslow has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-21 00:44:11	acdw	yo
2020-09-21 03:11:54	login	yo
2020-09-21 03:12:06	kayw	yo
2020-09-21 03:15:37		dctrud has quit (quit: Zzz)
2020-09-21 04:58:43		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-21 05:01:51	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 05:25:05		rodolphoeck has quit (quit: Dun goofin...)
2020-09-21 05:56:10	CoopDot	yo
2020-09-21 05:59:45	alex11	yo
2020-09-21 08:14:01		klu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-21 09:29:56		kevinsan has quit (quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2020-09-21 09:34:16		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-21 09:36:30	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 09:36:48	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 09:37:28		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Changing host)
2020-09-21 09:37:28	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 10:07:03	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 11:27:18		lanodan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-21 11:28:51	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 12:17:46	▬▬▶	ged has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 12:43:53	oms	i segfaulted kristall testing my hacky gemini server
2020-09-21 12:45:26	oms	looks like it's in /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5Network.so.5 , not the browser itself
2020-09-21 12:46:16	ericonr	kristall could have passed bad pointers to it...
2020-09-21 12:52:06	xq	:O
2020-09-21 12:52:14	xq	i don't do any SSL myself though
2020-09-21 12:55:52	oms	some backtrace at https://pastebin.com/ncBvft5G
2020-09-21 12:56:19	oms	it repeats this over and over
2020-09-21 12:58:43	oms	(happy to do more interactive debugging if you want via pm. i'm a complete noob at debugging c/c++ beyond getting a backtrace)
2020-09-21 13:03:17		vee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-21 13:03:36		lrb has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-21 13:04:17		creme has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-21 13:04:25		Ekkie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-21 13:06:45		ged has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-21 13:19:54	▬▬▶	ged has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:30:26	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:31:53	ged	Hi, I'd like to know which software I should use to publish articles in my private space on gemini (e.g. how to publish a gemlog)
2020-09-21 13:32:00	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:32:42	▬▬▶	lrb has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:32:58	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:33:29	login	hi ged
2020-09-21 13:33:43	ged	hi login!
2020-09-21 13:33:51	login	what is your private space?
2020-09-21 13:34:21	login	is it the private directory that is present on many tildes?
2020-09-21 13:34:27	ged	login: probably gemini://tilde.team/~ged
2020-09-21 13:34:31	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:34:33	ged	I'm sorry, this wasn't clear
2020-09-21 13:34:35	login	oh, i see
2020-09-21 13:34:37	login	i got it
2020-09-21 13:34:40	login	you meant personal space
2020-09-21 13:34:44	ged	Yeah
2020-09-21 13:35:36	login	is opening a web page okay, or would you prefer if i wrote the answer here?
2020-09-21 13:37:40	ged	login: of course I can open a web page
2020-09-21 13:38:46	ged	I mean, it's very kind to ask, and maybe rude to assume that everyone has the hardware to open a web page
2020-09-21 13:39:03	ged	But I can do this right now, thanks
2020-09-21 13:40:32	ged	I didn't mean to shut you down, it was more like "of course, I can open a web page, thanks for asking"
2020-09-21 13:42:44	kevinsan	ged, i don't think anyone thought you were being rude. on IRC, people go away, do stuff, come back, reply - it's very async`
2020-09-21 13:42:49	oms	what's the recommended way for someone to make a cert for a server, for someone who doesn't know much about it
2020-09-21 13:43:04	ged	thanks
2020-09-21 13:43:26	ged	Then I'll go to the grocery shop and be back in about 30-45 minutes
2020-09-21 13:43:55	ged	Thanks so much, I'll read replies to my question later
2020-09-21 13:44:06	Cadey	no idea why my gemeni server is broken lol
2020-09-21 13:44:41	djph	uhoh
2020-09-21 13:45:31	kevinsan	oms: gemini://gemini.susa.net/gemini_prep_kit.gmi
2020-09-21 13:46:04	kevinsan	there are examples for RSA and EC keys (courtesy of makeworld)
2020-09-21 13:46:24	Cadey	gonna hack at it some more
2020-09-21 13:46:42	kevinsan	if you search GUS for certificates, i'm sure you'll find more
2020-09-21 13:46:43	oms	kevinsan: thx
2020-09-21 13:46:56	kevinsan	Cadey: do you have a repo for your server?
2020-09-21 13:47:09	Cadey	https://tulpa.dev/cadey/maj
2020-09-21 13:47:22	Cadey	but the odd part is the HTTP side of it works
2020-09-21 13:48:18	login	ged: https://tilde.team/wiki/gemini
2020-09-21 13:48:58	login	yes, i was afk
2020-09-21 13:49:21		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-21 13:49:40	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:49:42	oms	anyone know of a server that's known to be running with a self-signed certificate?
2020-09-21 13:49:56		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Changing host)
2020-09-21 13:49:56	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:51:01	oms	my client is complaining about my server's cert being self-signed every time I try to make the connection, even after I've said to trust it, and I want to narrow it down to being self-signed vs. doing something else wrong on my end
2020-09-21 13:51:03	ericonr	gemini://cosmic.voyage/log/ iirc
2020-09-21 13:51:30	oms	huh, no complaints for cosmic.voyage - I must be doing something weird then
2020-09-21 13:51:39	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:51:56	ericonr	at least it complained when I tried connecting to it using system certs
2020-09-21 13:52:04	ericonr	I assumed that meant it was self signed
2020-09-21 13:53:04	ericonr	for another possibility, gemini://gempaper.strangled.net/mirrorlist/
2020-09-21 13:53:33	kevinsan	oms: also gemini://acidic.website/
2020-09-21 13:55:16	ericonr	oms: is the server/client your own? I managed to access a server in localhost using gemserv and self signed certs without issue
2020-09-21 13:55:32	oms	yes, everything's on localhost
2020-09-21 13:56:24	ericonr	how did you generate the cert? 
2020-09-21 13:57:17	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 13:57:25	ericonr	openssl req -x509 -newkey rsa:4096 -keyout key.rsa -out cert.pem -days 3650 -nodes -subj "/CN=ericonr"
2020-09-21 13:57:57	oms	basically with that, except /CN=oms
2020-09-21 13:58:03	oms	it works now though when i did /CN=localhost
2020-09-21 13:58:41	kevinsan	oms: your CN has to match the hostname you connect with (for most clients, at least)
2020-09-21 13:59:21	oms	what happened is that I'm illiterate
2020-09-21 13:59:23	ericonr	I believe castor doesn't require a match
2020-09-21 13:59:36	oms	I followed kevinsan's guide down to 'create client certificate', but not all the way down to 'create server certificate'
2020-09-21 13:59:43	ericonr	heh :P
2020-09-21 14:00:25	oms	thanks all
2020-09-21 14:01:42	kevinsan	don't forget to announce your server when you open it to the world!
2020-09-21 14:22:37	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 14:24:00		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-21 14:24:17	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 14:25:05		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-21 15:13:06	ged	login: thanks, I'll read this page
2020-09-21 15:14:39	ged	Ok, brb
2020-09-21 15:14:40		ged has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-21 15:53:38		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-21 16:55:48	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 17:32:27	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 17:52:30		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-21 18:00:26		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-21 19:09:36	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-21 19:38:09		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-21 19:46:59		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-21 21:01:59	@ben	looks like the topic here is getting garbled https://tilde.chat/stats/
2020-09-21 21:02:03	@ben	ah it must be the emoji
2020-09-21 21:02:48	@tomasino	emoji, ahha
2020-09-21 21:02:50	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-21 21:02:50	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-09-21 21:03:36	@tomasino	i can change it... how do i echo the full current topic again?
2020-09-21 21:03:39	@tomasino	/topic didn't do it
2020-09-21 21:04:14	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-21 21:04:14	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@gopher.black) on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:55:49
2020-09-21 21:05:42	⚡	tomasino cheats and looks at logs
2020-09-21 21:06:53	ℹ 	tomasino has changed topic for #gemini from "💎 Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace" to "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-21 21:07:28	@tomasino	there we go
2020-09-21 21:11:09	@ben	nice it's back to normal on the stats page
2020-09-21 21:11:21	@tomasino	easy peasy
2020-09-21 21:54:47		nalaph has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-09-21 22:30:46		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-21 22:31:06	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:24:13	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-09-22 02:24:57	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:24:57	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-22 02:24:57	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-09-22 02:24:57	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 105 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 103 normals)
2020-09-22 02:24:57	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-22 02:25:37	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-22 02:59:25		jlj has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 02:59:25		bacterio has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 02:59:25		benoliver999 has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 02:59:25		g has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 02:59:25		xfnw has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 02:59:25		Sario has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 02:59:25		dodolz has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 02:59:25		calamitous has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 02:59:25		xq has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 02:59:25	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:59:25	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:59:25	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:59:25	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:59:25	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:59:25	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:59:25	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:59:25	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 02:59:25	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 03:36:56		flexibeast has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-22 03:37:50	▬▬▶	tude has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:07:50		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-22 04:09:08		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-22 04:09:28	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:09:46	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:11:13		caranatar has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		lel has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		mhj has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		kayw has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		CoopDot has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		emily has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		bandali has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		englishm has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		lewiscowper has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		acdw has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		makeworld has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		Sario528 has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		alex11 has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		nikita has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		hhes has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		paper1 has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		dctrud has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		tude has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:11:13		jan has quit (team.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-22 04:12:16	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:12:19	▬▬▶	tude has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:12:57	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:12:58	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:13:16	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:16:23	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:17:01	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:17:07	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:17:20	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:43:40	▬▬▶	kylie has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:48:36	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:48:36	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:48:36	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:48:49	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:52:28	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:53:58	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:58:05	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 04:58:17	▬▬▶	emily has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 05:18:05	rmgr	Apparently my capsule's just been shut down for like a fortnight :S
2020-09-22 05:19:36		kylie has left #gemini
2020-09-22 05:38:23		mhj has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-22 05:48:40	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 06:08:44	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 06:38:51	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 06:47:01	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 06:57:08		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-22 06:57:54	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 06:58:08		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Changing host)
2020-09-22 06:58:08	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 07:34:23		klu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-22 07:45:50	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 08:09:14	kevinsan	rmgr: what went wrong, do you know?
2020-09-22 08:32:35	rmgr	kevinsan: i think systemd just didn't bring it back up after a reboot, I'll have to check the config
2020-09-22 08:35:23	kevinsan	I wonder if natpen would be able to add a 'broken host' list to GUS?
2020-09-22 08:35:27	kevinsan	In fact it would be quite easy to use GUS info to survey the space and report server/cert anomalies.
2020-09-22 09:31:07		Gemino has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-22 09:32:31	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 12:07:40		tejr has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-22 12:26:51	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 12:59:01		tastytea has quit (quit: Gateway shutdown)
2020-09-22 13:02:01	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 13:56:19	companion_cube	https://drewdevault.com/2020/09/21/Gemini-TOFU.html if it wasn't posted earlier
2020-09-22 13:56:26	companion_cube	(not me)
2020-09-22 14:19:31	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 15:09:59	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 15:13:12	felix	o/
2020-09-22 15:13:23	companion_cube	\o
2020-09-22 15:15:19	felix	What's new?
2020-09-22 15:16:03	companion_cube	idk :p
2020-09-22 15:17:42	felix	Still thinking how best to handle putting something online.
2020-09-22 15:19:40	felix	Might end up doing completely different pages for Gemini and web.
2020-09-22 15:58:55		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-09-22 15:59:05	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 17:04:02		xj9 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-22 17:06:35	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 17:35:10	kevinsan	felix: what are your ideas about putting things online?
2020-09-22 17:38:00	felix	That's a very general question. :)
2020-09-22 17:41:01	kevinsan	:) your statement was also very general
2020-09-22 17:41:27	kevinsan	you make it sound like there might be an interesting conversation to be had about ways of getting stuff online
2020-09-22 17:41:53	felix	Ah. No, I was thinking about a specific project.
2020-09-22 17:42:28	felix	Which already has a web page, and it needs one for a side-project.
2020-09-22 17:42:54	felix	But on Gemini it doesn't exist yet, so it makes sense to mirror the entire original page.
2020-09-22 17:43:18	felix	Well, with the required changes.
2020-09-22 17:43:20	companion_cube	is there a compiler from markdown to gemtext? :p
2020-09-22 17:43:37	kevinsan	or move to gemini and mirror to html?
2020-09-22 17:44:04	ericonr	companion_cube: I know about https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/md2gemini
2020-09-22 17:44:16	companion_cube	that's sweet
2020-09-22 17:44:21	felix	Isn't Markdown-to-Gemtext mostly removing stuff?
2020-09-22 17:44:51	companion_cube	you also need to put URLs on their own lines
2020-09-22 17:44:56	felix	kevinsan: well, I already have my websites, not going to break them now.
2020-09-22 17:48:10	kevinsan	i'm wrestling with somthing right now - is tofu *by defualt* a hinderance or a gain at this point in gemini's evolution?
2020-09-22 17:49:06	kevinsan	in other words, should we just ignore signatures of servers by default, unless specifically configured by the user to do otherwise?
2020-09-22 17:49:24	xj9	not depending on CA is a good thing i think
2020-09-22 17:49:33	kevinsan	agree
2020-09-22 17:50:05	felix	Some clients seem to handle expiry gracefully. Others less so.
2020-09-22 17:51:08	ericonr	I have had little contact with this stuff, but it's a bit of security loss (assuming you trust the CA authorities) for decentralization gain
2020-09-22 17:51:36	ericonr	so I think for gemini it should count as a benefit
2020-09-22 17:51:55	kevinsan	it was drew devault's great little gmni fetcher code that made me think of this. The first version just fetched what I asked it for. The latest version fails and makes me add a signature to known_hosts, unless I use a flag.
2020-09-22 17:53:12	xj9	i generally don't trust CAs, i just have to or folks will get a big warning when they visit my website
2020-09-22 17:54:09	xj9	TOFU just means you make trust decisions on a per-host basis instead of delegating trust to a bunch of external orgs
2020-09-22 17:54:23	kevinsan	agree again - i particularly don't trust the main backers of Let's Encrypt. I think their motivation is just centred around locking out external trackers so they can keep all the data to themselves
2020-09-22 17:55:19	kevinsan	though I the general idea of a trusted authority is a good one, it should be up to me to decide if, who, and when I want to engage with trust.
2020-09-22 17:56:12	xj9	yes some kind of distributed CA could be interesting, based on user-delegated trust
2020-09-22 17:56:32	xj9	maybe an extension of TOFU?
2020-09-22 17:57:14	kevinsan	the big problem (as always) is people wanting to own the relevant part of my computer (root CA's, root domains, resolver, etc.)
2020-09-22 17:59:43	kevinsan	I suppose I would like gemini clients to, by default, be trusting of certificates, but with the option of being more stringent if I choose. 
2020-09-22 17:59:44	kevinsan	What I'm not sure about is whether this is a bad idea that encourages lax behaviour from the start.
2020-09-22 18:00:04	login	i want to use certain CAs for certain tlds, and not for others
2020-09-22 18:00:28	oms	if a certificate changes, it's 99.9999% of the time on gemini going to be someone tinkering with their configuration
2020-09-22 18:01:20	kevinsan	omni: exactly, certificates have been a bit of a source of errors and confusion (because the whole subject is so complex)
2020-09-22 18:01:50	kevinsan	login: totally - that should be an easy ask, yet for some inexplicable reason it's not. 
2020-09-22 18:02:09	oms	what's the threat model in the cases where someone MITMs you on gemini?
2020-09-22 18:02:18	kevinsan	s/inexblicable/'inexplicable'/ :)
2020-09-22 18:04:33	kevinsan	oms: the threat model is currently that an open port will sit dormant, waiting for the traffic that might hit my site, but probably won't :)
2020-09-22 18:06:19		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-22 18:52:29	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 20:56:58	ericonr	does gemini use unix or dos newlines?
2020-09-22 20:58:08	@tomasino	dos in the header
2020-09-22 20:59:27	ericonr	tomasino: and in gemtext?
2020-09-22 20:59:57	@tomasino	the document, whether gemtext or otherwise, can be in whatever line endings you prefer
2020-09-22 21:00:23	ericonr	I see, thanks
2020-09-22 21:00:26	@tomasino	NP!
2020-09-22 22:07:11	mhj	Did y'all see this? https://sr.ht/~icefox/scalar/
2020-09-22 22:07:26	mhj	Also good evening all~
2020-09-22 22:12:52		doppler has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-22 22:14:08	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-09-22 22:47:50	kevinsan	mhj: what did you make of scalar? really don't like the idea of blobs for messages - kinda hostile when you can IRC with a telnet client.
2020-09-22 23:23:59	acdw	oh shit the messages are blobs? oof
2020-09-22 23:24:02	acdw	plaintext or DIE
2020-09-22 23:24:08	acdw	brb, getting a tshirt of that
2020-09-22 23:57:29		xj9 has quit (quit: Gateway shutdown)
2020-09-23 00:34:27	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 00:43:12		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-09-23 03:13:20	doppler	how often do you REALLY IRC with a telnet client though
2020-09-23 03:14:33	doppler	we've all done it once or twice but I'd be surprised if you said it was even close to a regular occurrence
2020-09-23 03:28:43		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-23 04:53:31	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 06:48:04		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-23 06:48:09	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 06:48:24		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Changing host)
2020-09-23 06:48:24	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 07:04:48		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-23 07:05:28	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 07:15:57	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 07:16:53	kensanata	Ohh... new firewall rules at the office? I'm back on IRC!
2020-09-23 07:43:15	mhj	kevinsan: Ulta late reply - I didn't see that the messages were blobs at first. Not cool. Plaintext ftw indeed. 
2020-09-23 07:49:21	mhj	https://endeavouros.com/news/the-september-release-and-endeavouros-arm-arrived/ Might use this instead of Manjaro on my pbp
2020-09-23 07:51:44	@julienxx	Hi geminauts
2020-09-23 07:53:02		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-23 07:54:00	mhj	Heyo heyo julienxx 
2020-09-23 07:59:10	mhj	It's super late here, so I'm gonna go back to bed lol
2020-09-23 08:01:22	@julienxx	good night mhj :)
2020-09-23 09:06:30		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 09:08:46	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 10:07:01	▬▬▶	tsp has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 10:08:19	tsp	Is there an open source http > gemini proxy?
2020-09-23 11:12:17	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 12:32:06	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 13:09:53	mhj	Heyo all, how're y'all today~
2020-09-23 13:42:11	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 14:17:52	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 14:28:10	felix	I love playing with the line types in gemtext.
2020-09-23 14:28:21	felix	Making a page look good just from the alternance.
2020-09-23 15:49:33	mhj	Heyo all, good morning~
2020-09-23 15:49:56	felix	o/
2020-09-23 15:49:57	mhj	Just contacted an advisor from my school about getting a technical writing cert
2020-09-23 15:50:07	felix	Good luck!
2020-09-23 15:50:13	mhj	Thanks!
2020-09-23 15:50:35	mhj	How are ya felix ?
2020-09-23 15:50:48	felix	Productive!
2020-09-23 15:51:50	felix	Been porting a game to a new library binding, and also making web/gemini pages for an older game.
2020-09-23 15:52:00	mhj	Cool!
2020-09-23 15:52:24	felix	Wanna see?
2020-09-23 15:53:03		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-09-23 15:53:08	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 15:55:03	mhj	Sure!
2020-09-23 15:55:10	felix	gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~nttp/games/orion-tt/
2020-09-23 15:55:46	mhj	OK, hold on a second, lemme get bombadillo going lol
2020-09-23 16:00:05	▬▬▶	benj has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 16:00:47	felix	Hello!
2020-09-23 16:01:28		benj has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-23 16:01:44	mhj	That's cool :D
2020-09-23 16:01:58	mhj	I will try it, just might be difficult on Nix
2020-09-23 16:02:04	mhj	I'll try compiling it tho
2020-09-23 16:02:06	felix	Thanks!
2020-09-23 16:02:11	mhj	That worked for bombadillo
2020-09-23 16:02:41	felix	BaCon itself compiles easily, you just need patience.
2020-09-23 16:05:04	mhj	Nix might have a package for it, we'll see :D
2020-09-23 16:06:45	mhj	Nope, no package for it, but... I'll try compiling it
2020-09-23 16:07:26	felix	Good luck!
2020-09-23 16:07:35	felix	And thanks for going through the trouble.
2020-09-23 16:09:08	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 16:10:53	felix	\o
2020-09-23 16:11:26	mhj	No problem!
2020-09-23 16:15:44	mhj	If I can't run it on here, I'll try my Raspberry Pi
2020-09-23 16:16:17	felix	It's an x86_64 binary.
2020-09-23 16:16:44	felix	And the Debian package for BaCon is also for x86.
2020-09-23 16:17:00	felix	So you'd still have to compile the compiler.
2020-09-23 16:19:05	mhj	Oh I know, no problem tho
2020-09-23 16:19:16	mhj	It has instructions on doing that on the bacon site
2020-09-23 16:20:32	mhj	BTW why did you decide to program in basic in the first place? I thought for most simple game development most people chose python nowadays? Just wondering. I'm not at all opposed to it, of course :D
2020-09-23 16:21:10	companion_cube	I'd think most people go with unity/C#, but maybe that's for bigger games
2020-09-23 16:24:07		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-23 16:25:17	felix	I didn't start this decade though. Or last decade.
2020-09-23 16:25:21	felix	Think 1991.
2020-09-23 16:25:46	mhj	Ohhhh
2020-09-23 16:26:29	felix	The ZX Spectrum was still being made.
2020-09-23 16:26:53	mhj	Most of the BASIC stuff I remember was QBASIC in DOS :D
2020-09-23 16:27:16	mhj	I didn't know that about Speccy
2020-09-23 16:27:19	felix	Make that GW-Basic for me, but yeah. That too.
2020-09-23 16:28:03	mhj	Cool 
2020-09-23 16:28:22	rb100	ah, i love GW-Basic.  never got used to QB without its line numbers
2020-09-23 16:28:44	mhj	I think the most stuff I did QBASIC was give myself 99 lives in that Snake game lol
2020-09-23 16:28:56	felix	:D
2020-09-23 16:29:12	felix	Line-number Basic has a unique flavor all right.
2020-09-23 16:30:32	mhj	I still have a copy of QBASIC I pull up in Dosbox every now and then
2020-09-23 16:30:56	felix	Cool!
2020-09-23 16:31:48	rb100	i generate my blog using a static site generator written in GW-Basic
2020-09-23 16:31:56	rb100	though i haven't posted in a bit...
2020-09-23 16:32:02	felix	Really? :)
2020-09-23 16:34:44	rb100	yep - jeff.rainbow-100.com - and there's a link to the source at the bottom of the page
2020-09-23 16:34:54	rb100	it's called GW-Blog
2020-09-23 16:36:04	rb100	uses textile markup (i know most people use markdown...)
2020-09-23 16:37:22	felix	Eh. That's turning into a monoculture.
2020-09-23 16:38:42	mhj	https://github.com/charliesome/doslinux Speaking of DOS
2020-09-23 16:38:52	felix	Right, I saw!
2020-09-23 16:39:18	felix	May I ask why struggle to run Mastodon on a Pi when Pleroma is known to be light enough?
2020-09-23 16:40:07	xfnw	mastodon needs a lot more ram iirc
2020-09-23 16:41:07	admicos	mastodon cannot even compile its js on my 1gb ram + 2gb swap vps
2020-09-23 16:41:12	rb100	i run a mastodon instance on 2 raspberry pis
2020-09-23 16:41:17	admicos	after that it works ok enough
2020-09-23 16:41:34	admicos	mastodon is a resource hog
2020-09-23 16:41:44	▬▬▶	ffuentes has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 16:41:45	rb100	one for redis and postgres, one for mastodon's tasks
2020-09-23 16:44:31	felix	Right! You need two of them just to have it barely running.
2020-09-23 16:44:45	felix	Well, guess you proved it's possible after all.
2020-09-23 16:45:20	rb100	still needed to compile the js on a 4GB rpi4, though, then transfer the product to a pi3 where it runs now
2020-09-23 16:45:41	rb100	its a nightmare, though.  nobody should do it
2020-09-23 16:45:48	oms	>compile the js
2020-09-23 16:45:50	oms	what a world
2020-09-23 16:46:45	rb100	is that what it was doing?  i forget now... some process in the setup crashed on a 1gb rpi
2020-09-23 16:47:36	rb100	it was on this rpi, but i blew it away after i was done, apparently...
2020-09-23 16:54:44	felix	Hence my question. ;)
2020-09-23 16:54:51	felix	oms: I know, right?
2020-09-23 16:55:20	felix	And to think people make increasingly clever JS interpreters when the main performance bottleneck is crap like that.
2020-09-23 16:55:49	felix	Running megabytes of it that does way too much on an already overburdened platform.
2020-09-23 16:56:28	ericonr	rb100: could be minifying the JS
2020-09-23 16:56:32	ericonr	that can get complicated
2020-09-23 16:57:21	rb100	i doubt it since it's the server-side js that's the problem. why minify that?
2020-09-23 16:59:14	ericonr	:) no idea
2020-09-23 17:00:09	felix	Maybe it's written in TypeScript, or Coffeescript, or something.
2020-09-23 17:00:25	felix	Either way, yuck.
2020-09-23 17:00:59	rb100	it was during one of the "bundle install" or "yarn install" steps, i forget which
2020-09-23 17:01:08	felix	And to think the creator of Duktape says the interpreter is slow.
2020-09-23 17:01:55	felix	It runs JS as if it was native code. You know that feeling?
2020-09-23 17:02:43	felix	You can usually tell. Interpreted code is sluggish. Makes sense, right?
2020-09-23 17:04:19	felix	Apparently, a lot of that is incidental overhead.
2020-09-23 17:15:37		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-23 17:16:54	admicos	it happens after yarn install when running precompile
2020-09-23 17:17:05	admicos	it's react so it has to parse and compile all the jsx stuff
2020-09-23 17:17:06	ffuentes	hi
2020-09-23 17:17:10	admicos	\o
2020-09-23 17:17:49	admicos	i have to use NODE_OPTIONS="--max-old-space-size=2048" for masto to use swap when doing it otherwise it just goes oom
2020-09-23 17:17:57	ffuentes	do you have or know a gemini client that's available for Windows and that's already built (not for compiling)?
2020-09-23 17:18:55	felix	Geminaut?
2020-09-23 17:19:18	felix	Kristall?
2020-09-23 17:19:40	felix	https://kristall.random-projects.net/
2020-09-23 17:20:47	ffuentes	Geminaut triggers Windows Defender bad
2020-09-23 17:21:35	ffuentes	I'm gonna try Kristall
2020-09-23 17:23:19	ffuentes	Thanks Felix. It worked! 
2020-09-23 17:23:34	ffuentes	it triggered Defender but at least it didn't delete the .exe like the other one
2020-09-23 17:29:44	felix	Yay.
2020-09-23 18:07:41		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-23 18:17:57		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 18:20:14	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 18:28:28	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 18:28:43	lukee	o/ space-cadets
2020-09-23 18:33:40	lukee	hi ffuentes: currently there is no installer for GemiNaut and the binaries are unsigned. I think that is what is upsetting the anti-virus products. Needless to say it is a false positive. 
2020-09-23 18:34:06	lukee	next version of GemiNaut has a proper installer and I am investigating options for signing the binaries as well.
2020-09-23 18:37:07	lukee	those both should help I think. In the mean time, you can either compile GemiNaut yourself or add to the anti-virus white list. Its pretty annoying TBH
2020-09-23 18:40:26	idf	i guess the combination of unsigned binary + networking to an unknown port triggers AVs
2020-09-23 18:41:50	lukee	and the wrong phase of the moon
2020-09-23 18:43:24	lukee	AV products have this annoying assumption that software apps that are not in mass-usage are by nature suspicious. They can trigger without even running the app. 
2020-09-23 18:43:37	idf	that too
2020-09-23 18:45:15	lukee	well I suppose the weird shit people try to install on their machines over the last 20 odd years must have honed this behaviour as the only way to protect "ordinary" end users
2020-09-23 18:48:17	idf	download this epic toolbar with 200 emoticons NOW RIGHT >>HERE DOWNLOAD<<
2020-09-23 18:49:15	lukee	This website has detected your drivers are not up to date: DOWNLOAD to perform a driver scan now!
2020-09-23 18:49:59	lukee	sigh
2020-09-23 18:50:03	xj9	meanwhile in finland
2020-09-23 19:03:55	ffuentes	I've installed stuff like that before but never got the executable deleted by Windows before 
2020-09-23 19:10:31	lukee	yes its pretty annoying when that happens
2020-09-23 19:22:04	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 19:45:56		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-23 20:50:16		griffin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 20:50:45		Sario528 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 20:50:58		englishm has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 20:50:58		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 20:51:08	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 20:51:18		jrhorn424 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 20:52:26	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 20:53:37	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 20:54:05	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 20:56:24		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 21:59:38		griffin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:20:07		klu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:53:43		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:54:00	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 22:54:02		jrhorn424 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:54:05		wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:54:29	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 22:56:57	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 23:20:35		ffuentes has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-23 23:20:41		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-09-23 23:20:47	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-23 23:53:18	tsp	I wish GUS would show me the date each host was added. The latest 10 hosts means I have to keep checking every day or I'll miss one.
2020-09-24 00:48:32	ℹ 	gbmor is now known as gbmor|f12
2020-09-24 01:02:48	ℹ 	gbmor|f12 is now known as gbmor
2020-09-24 02:14:11		djph has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-24 02:26:16	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:45:19	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-09-24 02:45:58	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:45:58	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 1 nick (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normals)
2020-09-24 02:46:20	ℹ 	Notice(cosmic.tilde.chat): Creation time of #gemini changed from Thu Sep 24 2020 02:45:58 to Sat Aug 31 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-24 02:46:20	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [-ont tomasino] by cosmic.tilde.chat
2020-09-24 02:46:20	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+nrt] by team.tilde.chat
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	tude has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	swift has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	vulpine has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	autumnova has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by team.tilde.chat
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	tsp has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	sumpygump has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	emily has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	lrb has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by team.tilde.chat
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 02:46:20	ℹ 	team.tilde.chat has changed topic for #gemini to "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-24 02:46:38	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-24 02:47:21		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-24 02:48:44		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-24 03:24:20	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-09-24 03:24:59	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:24:59	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 1 nick (1 op, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normals)
2020-09-24 03:25:10	ℹ 	Notice(cosmic.tilde.chat): Creation time of #gemini changed from Thu Sep 24 2020 03:24:59 to Sat Aug 31 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-24 03:25:10	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [-ont tomasino] by cosmic.tilde.chat
2020-09-24 03:25:10	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+nrt] by thunix.tilde.chat
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	sumpygump has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	autumnova has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	lrb has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	tsp has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	vulpine has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	swift has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	tude has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	emily has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo ben julienxx] by thunix.tilde.chat
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	companion_cube has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 03:25:10	ℹ 	thunix.tilde.chat has changed topic for #gemini to "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-24 03:25:39	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-24 05:41:54	rmgr	That would be rad
2020-09-24 06:24:30	rmgr	Does anybody else find themselves using gemtext for non-gemini related things?
2020-09-24 06:25:39	rmgr	I have the vim syntax highlighting set up on my raspberry pi so I just have a folder for random notes and stuff now, I find the markup is just enough to provide structure but keeps out of the way
2020-09-24 07:54:02	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 08:50:48		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-24 09:29:49		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-24 09:39:38	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 09:41:54	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 11:15:37		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-09-24 11:19:09	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 12:06:29	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 12:07:10	kensanata	Another year in this orc village... gemini://transjovian.org/anthe/page/Underforth
2020-09-24 12:16:46		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-24 12:57:16	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 13:19:50		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-24 13:30:30	mhj	Heyo gemnauticals
2020-09-24 13:55:02	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 14:11:29	kevinsan	doppler: you're right, it's rare to use telnet/netcat/etc to IRC, but e.g. it allowed me to write the simplest CGI code to send messages to IRC via my Gemini clients, and a binary format would have needed a lot more effort.
2020-09-24 14:31:31	doppler	curious. did you write a Gemini IRC client?
2020-09-24 14:42:02	kevinsan	doppler: no, I mean I can make a gemini request that results in a message in #gemini on IRC.
2020-09-24 14:43:12	ericonr	kevinsan: are you using client certs for that?
2020-09-24 14:44:05	kevinsan	no, just a secret token at the start of the input. client certs would be better, it's just that not all clients support them yet.
2020-09-24 14:46:19	kevinsan	it's really simple. I'm going through a bouncer, so a lot of the nickserv stuff is already done. Direct via the IRC server requires a few more steps. The simple variant was written up here gemini://gemini.susa.net/telnet_znc_to_irc.gmi
2020-09-24 14:48:43	ericonr	would be nice if the server returned a page showing the current conversation as well :o
2020-09-24 14:48:47	ericonr	in the gemini context
2020-09-24 14:51:11	doppler	kevinsan: right, and if you took that concept to a certain extreme you'd end up with a Gemini IRC client. :)
2020-09-24 15:01:00	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 15:07:36	kevinsan	ericonr: I have that already gemini://gemini.susa.net/cgi-bin/gemini-irc?sort=desc
2020-09-24 15:09:29	kevinsan	doppler: exactly. the beauty of plain text is there virtually no barrier to entry. I've been using generic Unix tools that are like 40+ years old.
2020-09-24 15:10:37	doppler	yeah :)
2020-09-24 15:11:49	doppler	I'm not here to trash-talk plain text; it has its strengths
2020-09-24 15:12:05	doppler	I've just also seen its limitations
2020-09-24 15:12:25	companion_cube	I mean, gemini is also kind of text? :p
2020-09-24 15:16:29	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 15:17:20		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-24 15:24:42	doppler	I'd say so
2020-09-24 15:25:05	doppler	we were comparing to a non-text chat protocol
2020-09-24 15:25:15	doppler	not to gemini :)
2020-09-24 15:27:44	ericonr	kevinsan: that's super cool!
2020-09-24 15:30:57	kevinsan	ericonr: it's really simple 15 lines of bash and 50 lines of awk - plain text rulez :)
2020-09-24 15:31:12	kevinsan	https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/gemini/-/blob/master/content/cgi-bin/gemini-irc  and https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/gemini/-/blob/master/content/cgi-bin/parse_irc.awk
2020-09-24 15:31:17	companion_cube	for a chat protocol, being line based definitely isn't right
2020-09-24 15:32:07	kevinsan	do you mean it lacks structure of conversation threads?
2020-09-24 15:33:08	companion_cube	I mean, \n is very bad framing :)
2020-09-24 15:33:30	companion_cube	a more modern chat system would at least use some form of basic serialization 
2020-09-24 15:33:47	companion_cube	(like icefox's stuff, forgot the name, it came up recently)
2020-09-24 15:33:51	companion_cube	https://sr.ht/~icefox/scalar/
2020-09-24 15:34:25	ericonr	kevinsan: thanks c:
2020-09-24 15:38:16	doppler	companion_cube: you could frame with \n if you could encode \n as e.g. an escaped string
2020-09-24 15:38:28	companion_cube	still sucks super bad, sorry :)
2020-09-24 15:38:58	companion_cube	a simple, still text based way of doing that could be to send Bencode records
2020-09-24 15:39:10	companion_cube	it's trivial to parse (really trivial) and it's binary safe
2020-09-24 15:40:00	doppler	fair enough
2020-09-24 15:40:38	kevinsan	companion_cube: what are the benefits?
2020-09-24 15:41:05	companion_cube	being able to write multi-line messages, for a start; simple separation of text and metadata
2020-09-24 15:41:05	doppler	binary-safe transport and possibly easier parsing
2020-09-24 15:41:19	companion_cube	and easier printing
2020-09-24 15:41:23	companion_cube	no need to escape at all
2020-09-24 15:41:31	oms	galaxy brain: \r is a newline in a message, \n a newline in the protocol
2020-09-24 15:41:58	doppler	and what if you want to encode CR in your message
2020-09-24 15:42:11	oms	don't
2020-09-24 15:43:15	companion_cube	ircv3 has to juggle to shove more metada in messages
2020-09-24 15:43:18	companion_cube	with bencode it'd be trivial
2020-09-24 15:44:37	ericonr	I've written a small dumb client, and added parsing to it, so it knows what links are and can (kinda) use them C: https://asciinema.org/a/XmZlUXlI7MiZfPr04mMyAd1Wl
2020-09-24 17:03:43	▬▬▶	vgk has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 17:17:56	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 17:21:05	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 17:24:38		vgk has left #gemini
2020-09-24 17:24:45		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-24 17:25:00		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-24 17:47:15		lukee_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-24 18:37:27	xj9	based 58 encoded tab separated type-length-value format 
2020-09-24 18:47:58	▬▬▶	Nalaph has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 19:14:39		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-24 19:15:10	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 19:54:00		wallet has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-24 20:09:37		companion_cube has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-09-24 20:49:00	epoch	I have a gemini URL that returns a multipart/alternative response
2020-09-24 20:56:41	epoch	might make it say it is message/rfc822 so the body contains the Content-Type: multipart/alternative so that the boundary isn't part of the protocol
2020-09-24 21:31:50		Nalaph has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-24 22:02:18	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-24 22:07:59		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 01:00:51	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 02:13:01		fleeky has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		jlj has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		bacterio has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		benoliver999 has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		g has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		xfnw has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		djph has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		Sario has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		dodolz has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		calamitous has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:26:25		xq has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:07	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:11		lel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 03:27:16		xfnw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-25 03:27:27	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:27:41		krjst has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 03:27:41		michel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 03:28:37	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:28:45	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:28:57	▬▬▶	michel has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 03:36:58	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 04:06:47		jns has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 04:06:55	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 10:29:06		boringcactus has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-25 11:42:42	mhj	Morning gemnauts~
2020-09-25 11:43:22	mhj	gemini://earthlight.xyz:1965/blog/4-tool-dependance.gmi
2020-09-25 11:43:30	mhj	My formatting still sucks...
2020-09-25 11:43:39	mhj	Yay nano and hard wrap lol
2020-09-25 11:50:26		Siinamon has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-25 11:50:31	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 12:10:46	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 12:25:22	kevinsan	well, speaking of longevity of tools, mhj, you could use vim for soft-wrap :)
2020-09-25 12:37:09	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 12:43:51	mhj	This is true kevinsan lol
2020-09-25 12:45:17	kevinsan	did you ever read Drew DeVault's article on browser scope - scary numbers, for sure. https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html
2020-09-25 12:48:42	mhj	Ooh, I like this article... thanks!
2020-09-25 12:50:48	boringcactus	oh hey, drew posted on mastodon "So when is someone writing a gemini -> mastodon portal" 10 hours ago and i spent the next eight hours building https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/gemifedi
2020-09-25 12:52:10	boringcactus	the code is unforgivably awful rn but if it stops being that at some point today i'll throw a demo up somewhere
2020-09-25 13:01:18	kevinsan	ha - ~30% if this person's readme file is apologies for their code. wow, worse than me!
2020-09-25 13:01:56	kevinsan	nobody should ever feel the need to apologise for GPL code. it's a gift to the world! :)
2020-09-25 13:02:47	kevinsan	and I just realise that I am replying *to* the person, boringcactus, who apologises profusely for their code :)  Thanks!
2020-09-25 13:04:44	boringcactus	look, everything's hard coded and nothing's commented and i'm basically disabling most of TLS because nothing handles TLS client certs gracefully
2020-09-25 13:06:09		jlj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		caranatar has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		tildebeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		jns has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		kvothe has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		lrb has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		dkibi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		doppler has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		sumpygump has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		g has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		paulgorman has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		Siinamon has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		tildebot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		oms has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		rak has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		CoopDot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		calmbit has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		djph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		jrhorn424 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		jucelo has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		emily has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		lucidiot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		Sario has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		scifi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		vee has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		bandali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		Gemino has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		ericonr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		englishm has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		swift has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		xj9 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		tsp has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		autumnova has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		calamitous has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		anton|pw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		rmgr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		lewiscowper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		kevinsan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		tejr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		obrut has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		enpo has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		boringcactus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		fleeky has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		vulpine has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		dokuja has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		ehmry has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		m68k has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		alex11 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		nikita has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		hhes has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		Cadey has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		easeout has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		wangofett has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		cel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		exprez135 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		dctrud has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		mozz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		paper_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		admicos has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		rjt_znc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		flexibeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		hannu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		appll has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		xq has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		cyrus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		sandra has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		lanodan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		tude has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		idf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:09		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:10		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:10		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:10		pentangle has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:10		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:10		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:10		omni has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:10		omse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	m68k has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	pentangle has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	sumpygump has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	tude has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	swift has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	autumnova has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	vulpine has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+oo julienxx ben] by hub.tilde.chat
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	bandali has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	tsp has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	lrb has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	emily has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:06:11	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:07:40	kevinsan	boringcactus: it still has more utility than no code, so a net gain for the world, no?
2020-09-25 13:08:08	boringcactus	see there's an argument to be made that bad, probably-insecure code is worse than no code
2020-09-25 13:08:24		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 13:08:42	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:10:22	kevinsan	my answer would be, only if it claims to be otherwise. in that light, i suppose a disclaimer makes sense!
2020-09-25 13:13:47		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 13:13:55	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:14:50		bard has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 13:14:56	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:15:06		oms has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 13:22:45	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:39:56	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 13:43:43	@julienxx	https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/gemini.html
2020-09-25 13:50:38	felix	Yay, we're getting more notice.
2020-09-25 13:59:17	tomasino	Hey! I got a mention
2020-09-25 14:01:42	tomasino	Ahh, they didn't find the bundled Kristall either
2020-09-25 14:02:02	tomasino	I don't think there are links to those on the GitHub page. Only the website.
2020-09-25 14:06:26	felix	They also don't seem to know how to, wait for it, install software from their distro's repositories.
2020-09-25 14:07:19	felix	Like, seriously? What are you doing on the official Qt website to grab a Linux package?
2020-09-25 14:07:40	xfnw	lol
2020-09-25 14:07:40	felix	And I think the Kristall website is linked from the GitHub page?
2020-09-25 14:07:46	boringcactus	i mean i'd be prepared to assume Kristall isn't packaged in the average distro
2020-09-25 14:08:01	felix	No, it probably isn't yet.
2020-09-25 14:08:12	CommunistWolf	I read it as if they were on windows
2020-09-25 14:08:14	felix	But it does have a proper website, which does offer an AppImage.
2020-09-25 14:08:27	CommunistWolf	kinda niche, I grant you
2020-09-25 14:08:27	felix	"I also tried installing Kristall on my Linux machine"
2020-09-25 14:08:42	boringcactus	and maybe you already know how to `apt install libqt9-dev` or whatever the hell, but "if you don't know that then don't use gemini lol" seems. like a bold claim
2020-09-25 14:08:55	CommunistWolf	ahh
2020-09-25 14:09:04	felix	Sure, it should be easier.
2020-09-25 14:09:19	felix	But how easy, dammit? Easier than "download this executable and run it?"
2020-09-25 14:09:56	felix	Some projects don't *have* proper homepages. Or releases on GitHub. And when they do it's not obvious, because GitHub.
2020-09-25 14:10:04	felix	But this one *does*.
2020-09-25 14:11:04	oms	to be fair, my experience building kristall was somewhat painful even knowing how to install libraries from my distro's repositories
2020-09-25 14:11:50	oms	I didn't know much about qt and had to figure out how to map its dependencies into debian package names
2020-09-25 14:12:28	oms	it's not just libqt5-dev
2020-09-25 14:15:08	felix	I guess!
2020-09-25 14:15:32	felix	And the appimage is... large. But it works, and is lightweight.
2020-09-25 14:17:16	oms	derp, BUILDING.md has the list of packages I wanted right there
2020-09-25 14:23:08	tomasino	To be fair I couldn't get Kristall to install with the Ubuntu qt package
2020-09-25 14:23:34	tomasino	I installed qt fully in the beginning. Now I use the appimage
2020-09-25 14:25:08	felix	Yeah, there's a reason I make a point of reducing dependencies.
2020-09-25 14:25:19	felix	Or at least keeping them *simple*.
2020-09-25 14:25:35	felix	Python isn't a small or light dependency, but it's just one.
2020-09-25 14:25:45	tomasino	If you know how to manage pip
2020-09-25 14:25:56	tomasino	And can navigate python 2 and 3
2020-09-25 14:25:57	felix	No. I mean, *just* Python.
2020-09-25 14:26:07	felix	It has enough crap in the standard library.
2020-09-25 14:26:27	felix	Windows install kits even come with Tkinter.
2020-09-25 14:27:13	tomasino	I like appimages for these bigger things
2020-09-25 14:27:19	tomasino	Kdenlive
2020-09-25 14:27:29	tomasino	Even discord
2020-09-25 14:27:51	felix	As for pip, it drives me crazy. People keep saying, "run pip install blah blah". Um, no. I'm on Linux. Tons of packages are in apt-get.
2020-09-25 14:28:13	felix	Slightly older versions? Yes, for a good reason!
2020-09-25 15:04:42	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 15:06:19	felix	o/
2020-09-25 15:20:19	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 15:22:08	lukee	huh the article about some poor chap trying to get a Gemini client working is a study in the modern frustrations of installing software that is not perfectly packaged and published through your favourite app store (TM(
2020-09-25 15:22:57	lukee	(maybe wrong assumption it is written by a chap, my bad)
2020-09-25 15:24:00		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 15:24:01	lukee	Its nice to get some more readers coming to Geministan
2020-09-25 15:24:56	lukee	but it shows the long way we have to come to make Gemini accessible to a non-tech audience
2020-09-25 15:27:53	lukee	...and that is just for visiting Gemini servers as a reader
2020-09-25 15:29:05	lukee	I take my hat off to gemlog.blue and flounder for lowering the barriers to entry for writers at least, by providing a web editor front end
2020-09-25 15:29:29	felix	Indeed. We have a way to go. All software does, but ours is immature.
2020-09-25 15:29:58	felix	Still. Kristall comes as a single, stand-alone executable. So do Bombadillo and Amfora.
2020-09-25 15:30:14	felix	You really can just download and run.
2020-09-25 15:30:28	lukee	you have to be very persistently stubborn and fearless of technology to join the community
2020-09-25 15:31:36	lukee	I love all those clients, but trying to get them past the anti-virus gatekeepers that protect you from the big bad world is a challenge
2020-09-25 15:32:52	felix	That's true for a lot of software these days.
2020-09-25 15:32:54	lukee	and command line apps presume a high level of technical ability that we take for granted
2020-09-25 15:33:15	felix	Antivirus software seems made to drive people towards official app stores.
2020-09-25 15:33:48	felix	And do they? The friendliest UI ever designed, bar none, was that of Norton Commander.
2020-09-25 15:34:08	felix	It literally has no equal. It's perfect.
2020-09-25 15:39:09	ericonr	lukee: command line apps are more about the initial barrier to entry than anything
2020-09-25 15:39:29	lukee	as a terminal application it is v good. But terminal apps have a very particular kind of power user audience in mind
2020-09-25 15:39:47	ericonr	people aren't pre disposed to reading man pages or help output or what have you, so it's very easy to dislike command line stuff at first glance
2020-09-25 15:40:34	felix	And apps that force you to do that need work. Definitely.
2020-09-25 15:40:42	felix	I needed two attempts to learn Micro.
2020-09-25 15:41:07	lukee	I think I agree, and these are old arguments about UI design. But for whatever reason they will be perceived as inaccessible to a wider audience
2020-09-25 15:42:58	felix	And if I get started about the reason why, it'll turn into a flamewar.
2020-09-25 15:43:01	lukee	I'd love to see better usability for content authoring for Gemini that could be done within the client, not requiring a web front end or command line Fu
2020-09-25 15:43:34	felix	Yeah. It should be relatively easy, too, compared to other formats.
2020-09-25 15:44:06	lukee	if we can simplify the reading as radically as we have, we should do the same for authoring
2020-09-25 15:44:59	tomasino	geminicities.com when?
2020-09-25 15:45:28	tomasino	it should have an app that's just a login & authoring portal in disguise
2020-09-25 15:45:32	lukee	hmm, but that still doesnt solve the authoring problem
2020-09-25 15:46:03	lukee	For me, it should be within the concept of Gemini, not out of band
2020-09-25 15:46:46	lukee	otherwise we are still like the web. In that the gatekeepers decide who and how you can write. And the vast majority can only read
2020-09-25 15:46:51	felix	Even the web lost that aspect long ago. :(
2020-09-25 15:47:38	lukee	No, for example you can host a simple wiki and edit it within itself just using a browser
2020-09-25 15:48:37	tomasino	i don't see that gemini needs to have a way to author itself in the protocol itself. It's a very nice, tight, read-based protocol as is. 
2020-09-25 15:48:42	felix	Sure, but have you seen wiki markup? Even I got fed up with it after a while.
2020-09-25 15:49:01	lukee	but we have fixed the markup problem!
2020-09-25 15:49:44	lukee	tomasino - its just that at the moment, we have shifted the authoring problem somewhere else
2020-09-25 15:50:16	tomasino	i'm okay with that
2020-09-25 15:50:20	lukee	Gemini is a pleasure to read, but to write you need to know: commandline+ssh+scp or use a web front end
2020-09-25 15:50:47	lukee	so its quite asymmetric. Fine for nerds like us, not great for a wider user base
2020-09-25 15:52:09	tomasino	if authoring needs a simple solution we can think about that and create one. I don't think it belongs in the reading protocol.
2020-09-25 15:52:21	tomasino	it complicates it tremendously
2020-09-25 15:52:56	felix	But we have a companion protocol for posting, don't we.
2020-09-25 15:53:00	lukee	not necessarily, its just we know people have different tolerances for extension
2020-09-25 15:53:45	felix	And Gemini is resistant to extension by design.
2020-09-25 15:53:48	lukee	felix: yes there are some proposals, but they are somewhat complex IMO
2020-09-25 15:54:03	tomasino	i feel like trying to bundle writing into gemini is the most webby thing we could do to it. why not think fresh. What about a service that explicitly listens for TLS signed content with a header that's a resource path and then body copy and bam, now it's on your system
2020-09-25 15:54:37	tomasino	kinda like gemini in reverse
2020-09-25 15:55:24	lukee	it would be a start, but I'd want the server to hold the content source for me
2020-09-25 15:55:33	lukee	so you could round trip it
2020-09-25 15:56:38	tomasino	if you point it to the same path it would do that, wouldn't it?
2020-09-25 15:56:49	tomasino	gemini reads from X, this other thing can write to X
2020-09-25 15:57:00	tomasino	but it's not glued. doesn't HAVE to write to X
2020-09-25 15:57:08	tomasino	maybe you write to a staging area and moderate
2020-09-25 15:57:15	tomasino	maybe you use it to push up private notes
2020-09-25 15:57:29	tomasino	maybe you are filling in content another way only need read-only gemini
2020-09-25 15:58:05	tomasino	complimentary protocols that are good at the one thing seems simpler. and people can build clients that do only one, or both
2020-09-25 15:58:09	oms	I was planning on doing something with gemini that involves pushing content, and was thinking of doing something where you submit a url in your request, and the server pulls it
2020-09-25 15:58:22	oms	it requires the author having access to a server themselves, but it's still a crude transfer
2020-09-25 15:58:29	tomasino	yeah, that was discussed in the mailing list
2020-09-25 15:58:36	tomasino	it's quite simple if you can temp publish
2020-09-25 15:59:51	tomasino	anyway, that's my 2 cents
2020-09-25 16:00:54	oms	if you can do that, it's only one small step to adding to a client a dumb server that only needs to serve one file for a few seconds and quit
2020-09-25 16:01:19	oms	(except for NAT, etc.)
2020-09-25 16:01:22	tomasino	if you don't have NAT issues or firewalls it w...
2020-09-25 16:01:24	tomasino	yeah
2020-09-25 16:01:25	tomasino	hehe
2020-09-25 16:01:28	tomasino	TOR to the rescue
2020-09-25 16:01:31	tomasino	Tor*
2020-09-25 16:05:39	oms	where in the mailing list is this?
2020-09-25 16:06:51	oms	nvm - "Uploading Gemini content" ?
2020-09-25 16:09:17	lukee	the model I have in mind is the original https://wiki.c2.com/ 
2020-09-25 16:09:38	lukee	it was so simple but it effectively launched the whole concept of in-page editing
2020-09-25 16:09:49	lukee	that we take for granted now
2020-09-25 16:11:50	lukee	So you have some content on a server (possibly shared with other users). From within your client, if you are authorised, you can edit the page. Others see your changes. It grows as a collaborative space
2020-09-25 16:12:30	lukee	the current version uses client side JS, so it sort of shifted into something else, but for a long time it just worked
2020-09-25 16:25:16	felix	That we ever needed wikis at all is an indictment of how the web's ideals were betrayed soon after it launched.
2020-09-25 16:25:34	felix	The first web browser was also an editor. They were all supposed to be.
2020-09-25 16:25:59	felix	HTML is designed that way. HTTP has a PUT method.
2020-09-25 16:27:19	xfnw	what does PUT do?
2020-09-25 16:31:04	lukee	you dont need PUT when you have POST
2020-09-25 16:31:57	lukee	so it was a bit redundant. And hardly any clients implemented it, so it is just there as a vestige of a former time
2020-09-25 16:32:33	felix	Yes, you do. The semantics are different. And isn't that funny.
2020-09-25 16:32:51	felix	Many clients didn't bother with an editor either.
2020-09-25 16:33:02	lukee	xfnw: see https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Methods
2020-09-25 16:33:04	felix	Then it turned out we did need a read-write web after all.
2020-09-25 16:33:54	lukee	felix: yes, funny that :)
2020-09-25 16:34:29	felix	Oh and by the way: then we needed to invent WebDAV.
2020-09-25 16:34:52	lukee	yeah. It turned out we just needed GET and POST with parameters
2020-09-25 16:34:56	felix	Which mostly brought back into the limelight some methods that HTTP already had.
2020-09-25 16:35:23	lukee	one idempotent and one non-idempotent method
2020-09-25 16:35:42	felix	Sure, just like a carpenter only needs a screwdriver and a hammer.
2020-09-25 16:36:07	lukee	well, as someone who works with wood, I can tell you, you can get a long way with a saw and a chisel
2020-09-25 16:36:54	lukee	in Gemini, we just have a screwdriver! :)
2020-09-25 16:42:02	lukee	even Gopher, bless its heart, had a non-idempotent "post/put" method
2020-09-25 16:44:10	felix	And when people try to use the screwdriver as a chisel, we tell them they shouldn't need a chisel?
2020-09-25 16:45:22	lukee	but, if you sharpen the screwdriver, and close your eyes and pretend?
2020-09-25 16:46:32	lukee	And the other end of the screwdriver, if you hit it very hard on something maybe the nail will go in eventually
2020-09-25 16:47:35	lukee	These tool metaphors are always fun. 
2020-09-25 16:49:09	lukee	I think it has to come back to what is the overall concept for Gemini. The concept of operations, the use case, the space of application. 
2020-09-25 16:50:00	felix	People want more from it than it's designed to do.
2020-09-25 16:50:01	lukee	and for me, reading should never standalone without writing. Fundamental democratic point of principle.
2020-09-25 16:50:41	felix	And that's why I keep telling people that my favorite e-book reader is Sigil. ;)
2020-09-25 16:50:56	lukee	what is Sigil?
2020-09-25 16:51:31	lukee	ok, found it https://sigil-ebook.com/get/
2020-09-25 16:53:03	lukee	And anyway, what Gemini is designed to do, is whatever we design it to do. Its not handed down from God to Moses on a tablet of stone
2020-09-25 17:27:20	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 17:59:26		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-25 19:11:51		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-09-25 19:11:59	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 19:26:00	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 19:28:34	boringcactus	i mean. from what i can tell, Gemini is designed as a response to the application-platform side of HTML making the document-platform side of HTML really bloated and difficult to implement and with massive privacy issues, and being Just A Document Platform is a little bit at odds with having integrated authorship support
2020-09-25 19:40:05	lukee	yes certainly Gemini is a counter-reaction to the complexity of the web. I hope we can find a solution for publishing that is in the spirit of the radical simplicity of Gemini. At the moment to write for Gemini, you either have to stand up your own server and become a sysadmin, or fall back to using the web
2020-09-25 19:41:10	acdw	I think really all that needs to be done is a client + server implementation where basically, you'd read a post, hit "R", and drop into a text editor, then save and post to your own space.  This would be easily possible with elpher + gemini-write + titan
2020-09-25 19:41:17	lukee	ok, maybe you can get a user account on someone else's Unix box. But still this is a rare set of skills in the population at large
2020-09-25 19:41:19	acdw	just need more servers to implement somehintg
2020-09-25 19:42:50	ericonr	deploying pages with git seems like a good idea to me :P
2020-09-25 19:42:56	lukee	yes acdw, you're right. I like the idea of titan - but not the design as such, but I should probably stop bleating and implement something
2020-09-25 19:43:15	lukee	ericonr: ha ha :)
2020-09-25 19:43:36	acdw	yeah I haven't realy looked into it at all, but I have no better ideas either ;)
2020-09-25 19:43:41	acdw	so I want to write something up
2020-09-25 19:43:49	tomasino	that's how things happen
2020-09-25 19:44:08	acdw	yes indeed!
2020-09-25 19:44:15	⚡	lukee checks the number of hours in a day
2020-09-25 19:45:07	tomasino	but while we're on the subject of writing something up, how's everyone doing on non-gemini-related content on gemini?
2020-09-25 19:45:42	acdw	great, *I* think
2020-09-25 19:45:47	acdw	at least, I'm pumpin it out
2020-09-25 19:45:49	acdw	so
2020-09-25 19:45:52	acdw	you?
2020-09-25 19:45:54	lukee	that sounds great. It is the thing we all have in common :-/
2020-09-25 19:46:00	tomasino	i have a 4th superman in draft
2020-09-25 19:46:21	acdw	noice
2020-09-25 19:46:24	tomasino	it's a toughy
2020-09-25 19:46:28	lukee	I try a few provocations here and there :)
2020-09-25 19:46:33	tomasino	it got preachy and i backtracked
2020-09-25 19:46:37	tomasino	it's dancing a political line
2020-09-25 19:46:42	acdw	ooooh
2020-09-25 19:46:48	acdw	it *is* an election year
2020-09-25 19:46:54	tomasino	all years are election years
2020-09-25 19:46:59	acdw	haha yes
2020-09-25 19:47:03	acdw	i suppose so
2020-09-25 19:47:04	tomasino	:D
2020-09-25 19:47:49	tomasino	i'm still searching for the right title
2020-09-25 19:47:53	tomasino	i think that'll help me bring it all together
2020-09-25 19:48:30	acdw	Superman 4: the Quickening
2020-09-25 19:48:40	lukee	try the IChing for a suggestion?
2020-09-25 19:49:13	tomasino	in essence it's about the question of what happens when you have an immortal being that's impervious to anything take charge. How he is a product of the ethical upbringing of his time, and how to have that frozen for eternity as the defacto "rule" would become a distopia almost immediately
2020-09-25 19:49:30	lukee	cool
2020-09-25 19:49:44	tomasino	oh, i should see if i can get that running on team. i think the server it's using lets you run cgi's in ~ folders, right?
2020-09-25 19:49:51	acdw	tomasino: I think that's called "God Emperor of Dune"
2020-09-25 19:49:56	acdw	:P
2020-09-25 19:50:00	tomasino	yeah, kinda!! but even that was just 4,000 years
2020-09-25 19:50:03	lukee	how could an immortal being really comprehend morality though?
2020-09-25 19:50:04	acdw	oh no way
2020-09-25 19:50:32	acdw	tomasino: RE: getting "that" running on team, you talking about titan?
2020-09-25 19:50:33	lukee	its like my cat trying to comprehend how the cat food gets in the tin
2020-09-25 19:50:36	acdw	lol
2020-09-25 19:50:45	tomasino	I-Ching
2020-09-25 19:50:59	acdw	oh yeah!
2020-09-25 19:51:10	acdw	OH OH I get it now
2020-09-25 19:51:16	acdw	Dunno on the server on team
2020-09-25 19:51:21	lukee	your I-Ching app went down with your old gem space?
2020-09-25 19:51:32	tomasino	yeah
2020-09-25 19:52:12	acdw	:(
2020-09-25 19:52:30	acdw	CGI is supported on team tho!
2020-09-25 19:52:32	tomasino	i mean, the meat of the code is on github
2020-09-25 19:52:46	acdw	you need a shebang and +x
2020-09-25 19:52:58	acdw	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/tilde.team/wiki/gemini.md
2020-09-25 19:53:10	acdw	gemini://tilde.team/wiki/gemini.md
2020-09-25 19:53:14	tomasino	easy peasy, then
2020-09-25 19:53:26	tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/iching
2020-09-25 19:53:32	acdw	noice
2020-09-25 19:53:34	tomasino	i just need to remember what i did to run it as a CGI
2020-09-25 19:53:38	tomasino	i tweaked some stuff
2020-09-25 19:53:41	acdw	oh tomasino: nice tomasino.is, by the way
2020-09-25 19:53:44	acdw	supercool
2020-09-25 19:53:47	tomasino	:D
2020-09-25 19:53:58	tomasino	only the best websites out of me
2020-09-25 19:54:54	lukee	can I express a lack of comprehension what it is for?
2020-09-25 19:55:08	tomasino	https://tomasino.is/amazing
2020-09-25 19:55:20	tomasino	https://tomasino.is/lazy
2020-09-25 19:55:47	lukee	ah that makes more sense. I just went to the root and got a random one
2020-09-25 19:55:57	tomasino	yeah, that's what it was originally. just rando
2020-09-25 19:56:04	tomasino	but then i added this path thingy to select one!
2020-09-25 19:56:27	tomasino	i think i'm gonna add a test to see if the first part of the path is an "a" on "an" and make it read out Tomasino is a .... XXXX
2020-09-25 19:56:35	lukee	https://tomasino.is/confounding/
2020-09-25 19:57:11	tomasino	:D!
2020-09-25 19:57:21	tomasino	i've been using it for reactions all over the place
2020-09-25 19:57:48	acdw	great idea tbh
2020-09-25 19:57:49	lukee	https://tomasino.is/underspecified/
2020-09-25 19:58:04	tomasino	did you see my stupid code for it? it's soooooo dumb
2020-09-25 19:58:16	lukee	nope 
2020-09-25 19:58:29	tomasino	https://ttm.sh/hqy.txt
2020-09-25 19:58:30	acdw	are you just paying a guy to look up the definition and type it in *really* fast?
2020-09-25 19:58:41	tomasino	haha, yes!
2020-09-25 19:58:45	acdw	oh nice lol
2020-09-25 19:58:52	acdw	I just need a cool domain now
2020-09-25 19:58:54	tomasino	that was my joke about ben. There is no tildeverse. Just ben on netcat replying to everything really fast
2020-09-25 19:59:00	acdw	hahahahahhhaha
2020-09-25 19:59:17	acdw	ben can type that's for sure
2020-09-25 19:59:20	tomasino	you want 1338.ninja ?
2020-09-25 19:59:23	tomasino	it's leet++
2020-09-25 19:59:31	tomasino	i bought it for no reason and i have no plans
2020-09-25 19:59:36	acdw	oh lol
2020-09-25 19:59:42	acdw	i was like ... it's parked
2020-09-25 19:59:49	acdw	idk what you'd have on there
2020-09-25 19:59:54	⚡	ben fast type
2020-09-25 20:00:13	acdw	.... another tilde
2020-09-25 20:00:15	acdw	obvs
2020-09-25 20:00:32	tomasino	i was thinking about putting only stupid code things up there
2020-09-25 20:00:37	acdw	YES
2020-09-25 20:00:44	tomasino	like a "submit your gloriously bad coding ideas here"
2020-09-25 20:00:48	tomasino	we're super-leet
2020-09-25 20:00:49	acdw	pop a gitea instance, and ONLY host terrible code
2020-09-25 20:00:51	acdw	hell yes
2020-09-25 20:01:05	acdw	like, ban someone if their code is okay
2020-09-25 20:01:06	tomasino	it's just so much work for a dumb joke. I need to be in the right mood for that
2020-09-25 20:01:08	tomasino	like tomasino.is
2020-09-25 20:01:10	acdw	haha yes
2020-09-25 20:01:19	acdw	that's how breadpunk.club started
2020-09-25 20:01:34	tomasino	breadpunk is such a good thing
2020-09-25 20:01:42	acdw	awww <3
2020-09-25 20:01:49	acdw	pretty quiet tbh
2020-09-25 20:01:50	tomasino	like, the net good in the world increased a tiny fraction when that got dreamt up
2020-09-25 20:01:57	tomasino	eh, mini tildes are
2020-09-25 20:02:04	tomasino	you need to water them regularly
2020-09-25 20:02:06	acdw	:D
2020-09-25 20:02:11	tomasino	aka, advertise here and there to get new blood in
2020-09-25 20:02:16	acdw	yeah I ened to give breadpunk some lvoe
2020-09-25 20:02:25	acdw	well i should als oliek... wokr on ti
2020-09-25 20:02:28	acdw	wow typing
2020-09-25 20:02:30	acdw	work on it
2020-09-25 20:02:32	tomasino	:D
2020-09-25 20:02:49	acdw	also i've been considering moving my gmi stuff to breadpunk, but i also want my own special gmi server all my own
2020-09-25 20:02:54	acdw	i'm waffling on that
2020-09-25 20:03:19	tomasino	it's a toughy
2020-09-25 20:04:16	lukee	plenty of room for multiple personas
2020-09-25 20:04:20	tomasino	i think you need to come up with all the bread & dough puns and make them into meme-y ads for breadpunk.club. Get some stuff on reddit with it, and maybe stickers
2020-09-25 20:04:29	acdw	lol YES
2020-09-25 20:04:39	acdw	okay, weekend preojcte
2020-09-25 20:06:12	acdw	my miain thing about movig my gemini stuff to breadpunk is that i think i'd have to change my online handle to breadw
2020-09-25 20:06:15	acdw	pretty much everyewhere
2020-09-25 20:07:29	tomasino	unless you can make acdw into a breadpun
2020-09-25 20:08:50	acdw	.. like breadw?
2020-09-25 20:08:51	acdw	lol
2020-09-25 20:09:27	tomasino	:P
2020-09-25 20:10:00	tomasino	i think i tried signing up way back when but my email got mangled in the outbox
2020-09-25 20:10:05	tomasino	i was gonna be tomasindough
2020-09-25 20:10:12	lukee	Artisan Chapatis are my Daily Work
2020-09-25 20:10:15	tomasino	but i don't really like it. too long
2020-09-25 20:14:23	acdw	lukee: hell yea
2020-09-25 20:14:31	acdw	tomasino: try again! 
2020-09-25 20:14:44	tomasino	well, i feel like maybe i'll wait until i'm gonna do some dough work
2020-09-25 20:14:50	tomasino	i don't want to sit there on an empty account
2020-09-25 20:15:05	acdw	hehe understood ... tho you would not be alone lol
2020-09-25 20:16:20	tomasino	:D
2020-09-25 20:21:41	lukee	is it me or are queries in GUS broken right now?
2020-09-25 20:23:15	lukee	I get response status 42 on queries (apparently means "CGI error")
2020-09-25 20:24:19	lukee	here is an example query from GUS' documentation gemini://gus.guru/search?gemini
2020-09-25 20:25:18	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 20:38:47	lukee	tomasino: how about bagtomasel: "tomas in o" -> "tomas in a bagel". I can only apologise
2020-09-25 20:40:24	⚡	lukee should stick to the day job
2020-09-25 20:42:44	acdw	omg that's great lukee
2020-09-25 20:42:48	acdw	I 100% support that
2020-09-25 20:42:54	acdw	as far as GUS goes, IDK
2020-09-25 20:43:23	acdw	I'm getting the same error at https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gus.guru/search%3Fgemini
2020-09-25 20:44:00	lukee	I dropped natpen a line to let her know if she doesn't already
2020-09-25 20:44:46	acdw	good idea
2020-09-25 20:49:12	lukee	tomas in a bagel -> (tomas)
2020-09-25 20:49:54	tomasino	:P
2020-09-25 20:50:29	acdw	(  tomas)
2020-09-25 20:51:13	lukee	so the o is the hole of the bagel?
2020-09-25 20:52:00	tomasino	omg
2020-09-25 20:52:46	acdw	hehe ye
2020-09-25 20:53:02	acdw	youi could have sesame: (``tomas)
2020-09-25 20:53:13	acdw	or onion: (,,tomas)
2020-09-25 20:53:27	acdw	or poppy: (..tomas)
2020-09-25 20:53:40	acdw	or ... EVERYTHING (my favorite kind): (`;tomas)
2020-09-25 20:54:06	acdw	now I just want to make my PS1 a bagel
2020-09-25 20:54:07	tomasino	i like blueberry bagels if i have to bagel
2020-09-25 20:54:13	lukee	smoked salmon: (🐟tomas)
2020-09-25 20:54:14	acdw	mm yeah blueberry's aight
2020-09-25 20:54:18	acdw	lol lukee
2020-09-25 20:54:22	tomasino	hehe
2020-09-25 20:54:48	Cadey	i have no idea why my gemini server doesn't work over gemini but it does work over http
2020-09-25 20:55:31	tomasino	:/
2020-09-25 20:55:34	tomasino	that sounds problematic
2020-09-25 20:55:37	tomasino	does it give an error?
2020-09-25 20:56:11	Cadey	timeouts!
2020-09-25 20:56:20	Cadey	no idea why either!
2020-09-25 20:57:13	tomasino	hmmm
2020-09-25 20:57:21	tomasino	does it work soemtimes or never
2020-09-25 20:57:49	Cadey	never
2020-09-25 20:58:31	tomasino	maybe the port got closed?
2020-09-25 20:58:33	tomasino	simple as a firewall?
2020-09-25 20:58:40	Cadey	no firewall
2020-09-25 20:58:57	tomasino	what's the server again?
2020-09-25 20:59:05	Cadey	cetacean.club
2020-09-25 20:59:20	lukee	tomasino: you can have blueberry bagel, but only by the end of 2020 https://emojipedia.org/blueberries/
2020-09-25 20:59:52	tomasino	i can't netcat or telnet to 1965 on cetacean.club
2020-09-25 20:59:59	tomasino	even to get an error
2020-09-25 21:00:02	tomasino	nothing. hangs
2020-09-25 21:00:11	lukee	same here
2020-09-25 21:00:12	tomasino	so either you're not listening on that port or blocking it somehow
2020-09-25 21:00:46	lukee	its more like it accepts the connection, then hangs
2020-09-25 21:01:04	tomasino	you're getting an accept?
2020-09-25 21:01:22	tomasino	i'm not getting a connection
2020-09-25 21:01:28	Cadey	i'm gonna break out strace i think
2020-09-25 21:01:34	lukee	well TBH I can't strictly tell, but if the server or port is not there I normally get a different type of error
2020-09-25 21:02:27	tomasino	https://ttm.sh/hIS.txt
2020-09-25 21:02:50	tomasino	no "connected to cetacean.club" on the 1965
2020-09-25 21:02:53	⚡	Cadey grabs the bag of fun
2020-09-25 21:02:58	tomasino	yay fun!
2020-09-25 21:03:39	tomasino	to compare, i do get a connection via telnet to tilde.team on 1965
2020-09-25 21:03:58	Cadey	i may end up having to re-architect this gemini server code :(
2020-09-25 21:04:22	tomasino	do you have a port listener written in another language you can slap up on 1965 real quick
2020-09-25 21:04:26	tomasino	echo server or something
2020-09-25 21:04:32	tomasino	we can narrow it down to the server then if that connects
2020-09-25 21:05:07	Cadey	yeah try now
2020-09-25 21:05:28	tomasino	no connection
2020-09-25 21:05:34	Cadey	wat
2020-09-25 21:05:40	tomasino	i think you've got a mysterious firewall
2020-09-25 21:05:44	tomasino	is it a vps?
2020-09-25 21:06:09	tomasino	sometimes those have firewalls at the vps level outside of the server itself. (throwing out random ideas)
2020-09-25 21:06:18	tomasino	at least you know you probably don't need to debug your server code.
2020-09-25 21:06:26	Cadey	it's on OVH
2020-09-25 21:07:04	tomasino	i think ben uses that, or did. maybe he'd know if there was any mysterious trickery
2020-09-25 21:07:20		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-25 21:08:12	tomasino	double check ufw status is off, or even iptables -L.... but i'm terrible at debuging iptables stuff.
2020-09-25 21:09:42	⚡	tomasino is the king of "turn it off and on again" type helpdesk support
2020-09-25 21:24:56	boringcactus	oh hey gemini://gemifedi.boringcactus.com/about appears to be alive
2020-09-25 21:25:35	tomasino	woo
2020-09-25 21:25:46	boringcactus	it is currently read-only, only ever fetches the last ten posts on your timeline, and sucks in a thousand other ways
2020-09-25 21:25:49	boringcactus	but it's alive
2020-09-25 21:25:58	tomasino	haha
2020-09-25 21:26:01	tomasino	that's awesome work
2020-09-25 21:26:02	tomasino	good job
2020-09-25 21:26:26	boringcactus	ty ^w^
2020-09-25 21:35:22	acdw	holy moly boringcactus that's amazing
2020-09-25 22:11:34	kevinsan	that's cool boringcactus. it's already better than the web interface. I'm not kidding, i can almost feel the tranquility wash over me vs the mastodon landing page!
2020-09-25 22:12:50	ericonr	boringcactus: that looks super neat
2020-09-25 22:13:43	ericonr	I am now feeling the pressure to make my homebrewn client capable of sending input to the server
2020-09-25 22:14:34	acdw	DO IT
2020-09-25 22:14:40	acdw	... if you want to
2020-09-25 22:14:56	tomasino	do all the things!
2020-09-25 22:15:10	⚡	tomasino sends Cadey some good troubleshooting vibes
2020-09-25 22:17:49	ericonr	acdw: c:
2020-09-25 22:18:03	acdw	oh i like that smiley
2020-09-25 22:18:08	ericonr	my redirection implementation is already plenty hacky 
2020-09-25 22:18:16	ericonr	as is the navigation
2020-09-25 22:18:23	ericonr	I think the only non hacky part is SSL
2020-09-25 22:18:33	ericonr	and that's only because I don't do TOFU yet
2020-09-25 22:18:55	acdw	haha I never ended up doijng TOFU
2020-09-25 22:19:33	ericonr	it seems kinda required
2020-09-25 22:19:44	ericonr	a lot of stuff I tried browsing is self signed :/
2020-09-25 22:19:50	acdw	mmmm .. *technically*
2020-09-25 22:20:17	acdw	yeah, but I don't even check if the TLS cert is valid
2020-09-25 22:20:48	ericonr	unfortunately, I decided to use BearSSL to be hip and cool, and it makes skipping validation plenty hard
2020-09-25 22:21:03	acdw	oh lol
2020-09-25 22:21:11	acdw	yeah openssl don't care, at least not s_client
2020-09-25 22:21:16	ericonr	well, that's the only unfortunate part. The library itself is pretty cool
2020-09-25 22:22:11	ericonr	since it's a cmdline client, I implemented redirects and navigation by exec'ing into myself with the new link
2020-09-25 22:22:43	ericonr	see https://github.com/ericonr/purr-c/blob/master/gemi.c
2020-09-25 22:24:17	acdw	oh heck yeah
2020-09-25 22:24:26	acdw	actually what bollux does too (I think)
2020-09-25 22:24:53	acdw	also great name
2020-09-25 22:25:06	kevinsan	you can probably afford the stack, but have you checked for circular redirects etc?
2020-09-25 22:25:59	ericonr	kevinsan: you'll note the disclaimer: This is mainly a learning exercise for network, crypto and SSL programming, and all of the programs inside should be treated as such.
2020-09-25 22:26:03	ericonr	and no, I didn't check
2020-09-25 22:26:15	ericonr	thanks for the tip!
2020-09-25 22:27:23	ericonr	should be pretty simple if a page redirects to itself, no idea how to do it (in my case) if page 1 -> page 2 -> page 1
2020-09-25 22:27:40	ericonr	acdw: if you meant gemi, thanks :)
2020-09-25 22:27:59	acdw	yep! 
2020-09-25 22:28:01	acdw	okay bye
2020-09-25 22:28:05	ericonr	bb
2020-09-25 22:28:08		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-25 22:32:23	ericonr	kevinsan: I could do some ugly stuff by adding a parameter in the cmdline to check for circular redirection, or even an env var, but that would still be limitedd. Perhaps the best thing would be a redirection counter!
2020-09-25 22:35:53	kevinsan	what I did was make the request handler a switch statement in a loop. if response is 30/31, set the url to the response url and loop.
2020-09-25 22:36:41	kevinsan	if response is 20, then read, output, and break. 
2020-09-25 22:36:45	kevinsan	sort of thing...
2020-09-25 22:36:52	tomasino	Cadey: did your DNS update? I'm seeing a new IP for cetacean.club
2020-09-25 22:39:32	kevinsan	ericonr: s/request handler/response handler/ above. 
2020-09-25 22:40:23	tomasino	and now it's back to the original
2020-09-25 22:40:24	tomasino	so confusing
2020-09-25 22:41:26	kevinsan	some ISPs have lag updating their DNS primary/secondary/etc. servers perhaps?
2020-09-25 22:41:56	⚡	tomasino shrugs
2020-09-25 22:43:21	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 22:46:34	ericonr	kevinsan: I see! I wish to keep the exec'ing into itself nature of the codebase, so I will try to go with the counter
2020-09-25 22:46:43	ericonr	thanks for pointing it out, tho
2020-09-25 22:47:58	Cadey	tomasino: you are?
2020-09-25 22:48:00		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-09-25 22:48:24	Cadey	OH MY GOD
2020-09-25 22:48:31	Cadey	I FOUND OUT WHAT IT IS
2020-09-25 22:48:31	tomasino	 104.27.185.151... changed to 172.67.188.160... and then back to 104 and now  2606:4700:3036::ac43:bca0...
2020-09-25 22:48:42	tomasino	oh?
2020-09-25 22:48:57	Cadey	I accidentally set the cloudflare record to proxied somehow
2020-09-25 22:49:03	tomasino	ahha!!
2020-09-25 22:49:38		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 22:53:57		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 23:02:25	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 23:03:41	tomasino	so ... fixed!
2020-09-25 23:04:22	tomasino	yay! i helped!
2020-09-25 23:10:20		fleeky has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-25 23:10:27	kevinsan	it was the troubleshooting vibes that clinched it :)
2020-09-25 23:12:38	tomasino	totally
2020-09-25 23:12:40	tomasino	hah
2020-09-25 23:13:02	Cadey	i was so confused because the program worked locally
2020-09-25 23:14:37	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-25 23:14:42	tomasino	i'm glad you didn't waste hours stracing your server
2020-09-25 23:15:03	Cadey	i was about to
2020-09-25 23:15:12	kevinsan	blast and damn cloudflare to hades!
2020-09-25 23:15:29	kevinsan	forgive me, I don't know what came over me.
2020-09-25 23:16:06	Cadey	still wonder if i should make gemflare a thing as a joke
2020-09-25 23:16:16	tomasino	heh
2020-09-25 23:17:15	ericonr	kevinsan: https://github.com/ericonr/purr-c/commit/c3184b989d8b934e2f52d999a6b0318e98616714 there we go
2020-09-25 23:17:18	kevinsan	lol, i like satire. i mean, you just need to proxy requests via your server, right.
2020-09-25 23:17:18	Cadey	have it literally be powered by sqlite
2020-09-25 23:19:22	kevinsan	ericonr: your code is really quite lovely and clean. impressive.
2020-09-25 23:19:34	kevinsan	on the other hand, the design sucks furballs :)
2020-09-25 23:20:49		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-25 23:21:33	kevinsan	jk, of course. diversity is what makes the world interesting.
2020-09-25 23:22:51	ericonr	lol, thanks!
2020-09-25 23:23:08	ericonr	eh, launching a new process for each link is probably not very efficient
2020-09-25 23:24:08	kevinsan	with cacheing, it really makes no difference - especially with something so compact as a C binary.
2020-09-25 23:24:20	ericonr	but it saves me from implementing a loop around this stuff, and the OS should free up the used memory
2020-09-25 23:24:32	ericonr	indeed
2020-09-25 23:25:38	kevinsan	I ./configured Drew's gmni, make'd, and fetched a page from localhost with the resulting binary, all in 0.38s
2020-09-25 23:27:48	ericonr	hmm, interesting project
2020-09-25 23:40:18	lukee	\o/ GUS is working now
2020-09-25 23:57:09		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-26 00:17:34	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 00:35:29		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-26 02:16:41		boringcactus has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-26 02:58:25		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 03:18:18		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-26 03:51:25	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 04:11:49	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 05:43:37		pentangle has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-26 10:30:45	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 10:35:56		Siinamon has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-26 10:36:02	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 13:07:49	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 13:10:58	mhj	Heyo all
2020-09-26 13:11:23	mhj	Didn't know this, but alacritty(the terminal emulator), recognizes gemini and gopher links
2020-09-26 13:13:25	tomasino	nice! they added gemini already?
2020-09-26 13:13:36	tomasino	someone was putting in a kitty PR for taht
2020-09-26 13:13:37	tomasino	forget who
2020-09-26 13:15:27	mhj	Yeah
2020-09-26 13:15:58	mhj	I just know this because I switched from Konsole to Alacritty recently and looked at Alacritty's changelog
2020-09-26 13:17:55	tomasino	neato
2020-09-26 13:18:02	tomasino	another gemini do-gooder, likely
2020-09-26 13:18:17	mhj	Sounds like it!
2020-09-26 13:24:58	▬▬▶	norto has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 13:26:47	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 13:39:22		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-26 13:54:33	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 14:19:26		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 15:46:09	ericonr	mhj: do you know how they determine the application to use to open gemini links?
2020-09-26 15:52:03	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 16:22:20	▬▬▶	tutti_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 16:27:38		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 16:28:57		tutti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 16:34:17	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 16:45:26	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 16:58:17	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 17:20:59	▬▬▶	tutti_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 17:40:59		tutti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 17:47:13	mhj	ericonr: Sadly no, maybe it's just whatever you have set up as the default handler? I dunno really
2020-09-26 17:49:07	ericonr	cause it somehow opened kristall for me, but I don't think there _are_ gemini handlers registered in xdg-open stuff (which is what I assume alacritty is using)
2020-09-26 17:50:57	mhj	Oh I see... hmm
2020-09-26 18:16:37		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-26 18:18:32	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 18:19:10	lukee	kevinsan: I'm really enjoying the videos from Ceephax Acid Crew. What a find!
2020-09-26 18:19:51	lukee	they are really funny. I like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHFL8WY-_cI
2020-09-26 18:23:41		boringcactus has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 18:26:54	kevinsan	lukee: i know! really pleased you enjoy it too - stuff like that restores a bit of my faith in the net.
2020-09-26 18:27:45	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 18:29:50	lukee	creativity finds a way to persist against the odds
2020-09-26 18:30:46	lukee	the one called "Commuter" is quite relatable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHFL8WY-_cI
2020-09-26 18:31:02	lukee	(sorry I posted that twice)
2020-09-26 18:31:50	lukee	I meant this one. The best kind of cat video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7_ihs758Oc
2020-09-26 18:44:58	lukee	huh. His website or Youtube playing his video crashed firefox stone cold dead. Usually I'd feel annoyed, instead I feel a funny sense of admiration.
2020-09-26 18:47:46	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 18:48:57		lukee_ has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-26 18:50:03	kevinsan	:) worth it for Cat Waltzer, and images of Peacocks, Greggs, & Shoe Zone
2020-09-26 18:50:26		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 18:51:14	kevinsan	(for anyone not from the UK, these are kinda downmarket brands found in downmarket outskirt shopping areas, roughly speaking, at least)
2020-09-26 18:54:58	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 18:58:35	lukee	it is proper music too, not just stupid videos. Kudos to pull off an arpeggiated version of the Moonlight sonata.
2020-09-26 18:59:35	lukee	the funniest thing about that video is that the audience doesn't know where the end of that piece is to give him a cheer.
2020-09-26 19:04:57	kevinsan	ha, i know. also, he seems to have a bit of a Stewart Lee attitude - likes to see how far off field he can get away with pushing the audience
2020-09-26 19:05:44	kevinsan	this is a lovely tune too, more polished that when live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPRfaIpUPqo
2020-09-26 19:07:20		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-26 19:12:31	lukee	huh yes I already listened to that one - very good. Time to order some stuff from his website methinks
2020-09-26 19:17:29	lukee	Stewart Lee is genius. I love how he manages to totally annoy Daily Mail readers.
2020-09-26 19:19:14	lukee	I love the price Ceephax Acid Crew is charging for the album https://ceephax.bandcamp.com/album/camelot-arcade
2020-09-26 19:19:38	lukee	£8.08
2020-09-26 19:21:59	kevinsan	Not sure what the whole camelot/medieval thing's about though - there was a live set where there was a sort of medieval acid piece. crazy, but it worked.
2020-09-26 19:25:08	lukee	Occasionally reminds me of Squarepusher - who is also quite musically insane in a marvellous way
2020-09-26 19:28:55	▬▬▶	tutti_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 19:29:55	kevinsan	lukee: Squarepusher is his brother :)
2020-09-26 19:34:47	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 19:35:26	kevinsan	omg the cgi in his video is stunning (as is his music, thanks for the pointer!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlhV-OKHecI
2020-09-26 19:41:06	lukee	squarepusher is actually his brother or are you pulling my leg?
2020-09-26 19:42:55	lukee	great video - thanks
2020-09-26 19:42:55		tutti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 19:48:37		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-26 19:48:49	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 19:51:43	kevinsan	no, genuinely - his older brother
2020-09-26 19:58:21	lukee	lol
2020-09-26 19:58:41	lukee	I had no idea
2020-09-26 20:01:50		ericonr has quit (quit: new test)
2020-09-26 20:02:15	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 20:04:40		boringcactus has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 20:05:29	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 20:06:13	kevinsan	it's kinda crazy you picked up on that! musician's ear hears all.
2020-09-26 20:22:38	▬▬▶	reductum has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 20:29:56	lukee	I just dipped into his bandcamp catalogue at sort of random. this early album from 2006 has clear squarepusher motifs to my ears https://ceephax.bandcamp.com/album/volume-one
2020-09-26 20:31:02	lukee	I think he seems to have mellowed in the more recent stuff, somewhat less relentless, more squelchy analog synth
2020-09-26 20:34:00		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-26 20:48:52		norto has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-26 21:06:53	boringcactus	is there an idiomatic way to escape things in gemtext? i've got a line of text that organically starts with a # and i want it to not get processed as a header
2020-09-26 21:07:56		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 21:08:31	boringcactus	it looks like prepending a space works, but i'm not sure if anything else also works and better matches what the community tends to favor
2020-09-26 21:11:55	tomasino	that's the #1 way to escape anything in gemtext, yes
2020-09-26 21:12:01	lukee	There is no official mechanism - I think prepending a space seems to be the most commonly used approach
2020-09-26 21:12:26	tomasino	you can also put it inside a preformatted area ```. then everything is escaped except other ```'s
2020-09-26 21:12:45	boringcactus	well yeah but i don't want it to render as a preformatted area
2020-09-26 21:13:12	boringcactus	i posted "#1 blah blah blah" to Mastodon and it rendered on gemifedi as a header so i'm like oops
2020-09-26 21:32:07		reductum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-26 21:35:45	boringcactus	ok i have hacked the planet and once my CI build finishes for gemifedi i'll be updating the demo server
2020-09-26 22:00:12		xq has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-26 22:05:43		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-26 22:11:08		jrhorn424 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-26 22:12:03	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 22:24:34	boringcactus	you can now post from https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/gemifedi
2020-09-26 22:46:55	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 23:14:01		wgreenhouse has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-26 23:14:16	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-26 23:16:25	boringcactus	ok is this idiomatic: since gemini doesn't have anything like the GET/POST distinction, for gemifedi any url that is non-idempotent has a ? in it and redirects away on completion, so any gemifedi url with no ? is safe to bookmark etc
2020-09-26 23:19:00	Cadey	boringcactus: i'm about to release that gemtext patch you made
2020-09-26 23:19:12	boringcactus	ty!! <3
2020-09-26 23:19:25	Cadey	oh lol i bumped the wrong crate
2020-09-26 23:19:28	Cadey	fixing!
2020-09-26 23:21:12	Cadey	now to have faith in CI
2020-09-26 23:21:39	boringcactus	shout out to CI 
2020-09-26 23:22:50	Cadey	CI won
2020-09-26 23:22:59	Cadey	it's live as gemtext 0.2.0
2020-09-26 23:24:17	boringcactus	ayyyy tyvm
2020-09-26 23:24:38	Cadey	thank you for the patch!
2020-09-26 23:24:38	boringcactus	maj made gemifedi like 20% the hassle it could've been
2020-09-26 23:24:50	Cadey	that's amazing to hear!
2020-09-26 23:25:05	Cadey	that's exactly what i made that package for
2020-09-26 23:25:12	Cadey	enabling dumb hacks :D
2020-09-26 23:38:17	kvothe	VERY cool, Cadey!
2020-09-26 23:38:33	kvothe	(Seen't your posts on Mastodon)
2020-09-27 00:03:26		boringcactus has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 00:36:43	tomasino	it was neato
2020-09-27 00:38:31	jcowan	I'd say there should be no such magic about ?
2020-09-27 00:38:51	jcowan	queries can be idempotent over fixed databases
2020-09-27 00:39:26	jcowan	Truly ? just separates hierarchical names from key-value identifiers
2020-09-27 01:22:31	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 02:49:08		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 03:02:10	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 03:26:48		Ekkie has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-27 03:26:48		creme has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-27 03:26:48		vee has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-27 03:27:51	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 03:30:53	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 03:31:22	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 03:42:16		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-09-27 03:58:25	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 04:19:36		Siinamon has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-27 04:21:04		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 04:21:15	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 04:21:43	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 04:38:45		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 07:02:01	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 07:05:06		englishm has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-27 07:05:47	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 07:58:45		flexibeast has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-27 08:41:29	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 08:58:55	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 09:38:58		boringcactus has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-27 10:06:24		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 10:22:57	▬▬▶	tutti_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 10:39:41		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 10:50:43		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-09-27 10:50:52	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 11:25:01	ehmry	what are the http to gemini gateways? I remember seeing one the other day
2020-09-27 11:28:36	⚡	ehmry found it
2020-09-27 11:31:57	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 12:07:01	login	ehmry: which one did you find?
2020-09-27 12:07:03	login	there are many
2020-09-27 12:07:33	xfnw	there are 3, login lol
2020-09-27 12:08:01	login	xfnw: oh, three under tildeverse, yes?
2020-09-27 12:20:42		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-27 12:21:58	ehmry	https://proxy.vulpes.one/ looks pretty good
2020-09-27 12:34:58		tutti_ has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-27 12:50:45	▬▬▶	aravk has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 13:42:20	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 13:49:23	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 14:56:05	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 16:02:15	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 16:02:15	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-27 16:02:15	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-09-27 16:02:15	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 108 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 106 normals)
2020-09-27 16:02:16	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-27 16:02:39	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-27 16:21:31		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 16:23:03	xj9	https://sunshinegardens.org is one too, source linked in the footer.
2020-09-27 16:41:29	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 16:41:29	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-27 16:41:29	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-09-27 16:41:29	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 107 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 105 normals)
2020-09-27 16:41:29	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-27 16:41:59	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-27 16:48:10	Cadey	https://christine.website/blog/rust-crates-go-stdlib-2020-09-27
2020-09-27 16:48:18	Cadey	this took forever to write lol
2020-09-27 16:49:16	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 16:49:29	@ben	Cadey: s/levers/levels/
2020-09-27 16:49:51	@ben	2nd paragraph of ## logging
2020-09-27 16:49:53	Cadey	fuck
2020-09-27 16:50:24	Cadey	i'll add that to the corrections list
2020-09-27 16:54:47	@ben	+1
2020-09-27 16:56:38	@ben	interesting post
2020-09-27 16:56:49	@ben	i'm not familiar with go or rust though lol
2020-09-27 17:00:17	aravk	gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~aravk/blabe.gmi
2020-09-27 17:00:53	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 17:05:46	aravk	about making a new form of asynchronous after trying rust's thing
2020-09-27 17:17:21	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 18:21:15		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-27 18:37:34	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 18:54:21	jcowan	I'm devising a new protocol to go with gemini, tentatively called dioscuri.  Should I post to the ML, or is it worth discussing it here?
2020-09-27 18:54:36	login	ML
2020-09-27 18:54:54	aravk	how can I subscribe to the ML
2020-09-27 18:55:00	aravk	didn't even know there was one
2020-09-27 18:55:22	aravk	nvm found it
2020-09-27 19:31:25	▬▬▶	tutti_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 19:34:36	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 19:49:20	▬▬▶	wintermarket has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 19:49:32		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 19:58:09	kevinsan	jcowan: both. in the past, IRC chats have helped make ML posts and discussion more coherent (in my opinion, at least!)
2020-09-27 20:00:36	jcowan	Well, I certainly will post.  My idea is to provide a separate protocol (on its own port) that allows REST operations.  The general style is that a client supplies a standard client header enhanced with some indication of what operation it wants and (optionally) a server header and body.  What's returned is a header and possible body.  
2020-09-27 20:01:05	jcowan	Everything that is Gemini-like simply is Gemini, but Gemini servers need not cope unless they are listening on the Dioscuri port also
2020-09-27 20:01:55	jcowan	What I'm curious about is how much revulsion this idea will provoke.  :-)
2020-09-27 20:05:34	djph	jcowan: i'm somewhere up around "The Sackville-Bagginses!" and "Fool of a Took!"
2020-09-27 20:05:35	aravk	I mean, you could pull this off using the INPUT style and using slightly longer URLs (e.g. /get, /send, etc.)
2020-09-27 20:05:51	aravk	only an issue if you need to send over more than 1024 bytes
2020-09-27 20:08:04	jcowan	Quite so.  PUT and POST, however, don't lend themselves to such short restrictions.  AFAIU people use sftp as the PUT/POST protocol right now; it seems better to be more self-contained in the Gemini world.
2020-09-27 20:08:15	jcowan	Dioscuri might also *require* client certs.
2020-09-27 20:10:15	jcowan	Speaking of which, I saw a reference to using client certs in place of the good uses of session cookies, but a single subject might have/need more than one session, as in a tabbed browser.
2020-09-27 20:10:33	boringcactus	i mean. sufficiently well-built tabbed browsers will support that
2020-09-27 20:10:42	boringcactus	kristall does
2020-09-27 20:13:42		wintermarket has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-27 20:14:37	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 20:14:43	lukee	evening all
2020-09-27 20:14:48	aravk	helo
2020-09-27 20:14:52	@tomasino	hiya
2020-09-27 20:15:57		m68k has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-27 20:16:19		Siinamon has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-27 20:17:15	lukee	jcowan: I'm always up for a Gemini-adjacent discussion
2020-09-27 20:17:33	lukee	what is the use case you have in mind that you think is needed?
2020-09-27 20:17:57	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 20:18:25	aravk	REST operations I think they said
2020-09-27 20:18:55	jcowan	The simplest level is PUT/POST: we want to add or replace a file to be served by a Gemini server.  This can be done with an entirely different protocol such as HTTP or FTP, or for that matter email; it cannot be done with Gemini.  Dioscuri should be almost as easy to implement as Gemini and serves that purpose and others.
2020-09-27 20:20:02	lukee	yes Gemini is a read only protocol really, so it is limited at the moment
2020-09-27 20:20:27	jcowan	And I don't want to change that, just to adapt the Gemini ideas to a read-write protocol.
2020-09-27 20:20:40	lukee	I see what you did there :)
2020-09-27 20:20:48	jcowan	What, with the name?
2020-09-27 20:20:59	lukee	you dont want the protocol police knocking at your door :)
2020-09-27 20:21:29	lukee	no by saying you want to apply the ideas to *another* protocol
2020-09-27 20:22:00	jcowan	Yes.  (BTW, gopher, finger, and whois all use the same protocol on different ports.)
2020-09-27 20:22:06	lukee	there is a lot of hypersensitivity about extending the finished jewel that is Gemini
2020-09-27 20:22:13	jcowan	Quite so.
2020-09-27 20:22:58	lukee	actually you dont need another port, the server can just check the url scheme
2020-09-27 20:23:04	jcowan	And since "Gemini" is the Latin name for the Heavenly Twins, I chose the (Latinized) Greek name for this protocol.
2020-09-27 20:23:11	aravk	anyone wants to join in defending Gemini over at #meta
2020-09-27 20:23:19	aravk	jcowan: that's pretty cool naming
2020-09-27 20:23:29	jcowan	Should I take this to #meta?  This is the only channel I know about.
2020-09-27 20:23:35	@tomasino	no
2020-09-27 20:23:38	@tomasino	you're in the right place
2020-09-27 20:23:44	@tomasino	meta is a free-for-all of nonsense
2020-09-27 20:23:48	jcowan	Ah.
2020-09-27 20:23:53	jcowan	aka #random
2020-09-27 20:23:56	@tomasino	it just happens to have some eeyore-types bitching right now about gemini
2020-09-27 20:24:45	lukee	do you have any views on titan and I think there is another community proposal for content submission?
2020-09-27 20:25:24	jcowan	URL?
2020-09-27 20:25:33	lukee	erm let me check
2020-09-27 20:26:01	jcowan	I've read much of this year's archive, but all the names kinda flickered past each other
2020-09-27 20:26:25	@tomasino	it's what kensanata (alex shroeder) uses for his wiki uploads
2020-09-27 20:26:34	@tomasino	i think i misspelled his last name there
2020-09-27 20:28:06	lukee	https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan is one place
2020-09-27 20:28:26	lukee	I think there may be a gemini-visible version, not sure of URL right now
2020-09-27 20:30:11	⚡	jcowan reads...
2020-09-27 20:30:37	lukee	there is another write mode that has been written up. Not sure if I can find it.
2020-09-27 20:32:16	jcowan	Okay, so it's a single-purpose operation: someone publishes a Titan port with an auth token through a side channel, and then you can write a header + content to the port.
2020-09-27 20:34:17	jcowan	Another use case is support for single-page applications: the client POSTs JSON to a Dioscuri port and gets back a JSON reply (use anything you want instead of JSON, of course)
2020-09-27 20:34:21	lukee	apparently there is an implementation as a command line script.
2020-09-27 20:34:39	lukee	Personally I don't like the idea of putting the submission parameters into the URL
2020-09-27 20:35:10	lukee	URLs are supposed to be stable resources as far as I understand it
2020-09-27 20:35:23	⚡	jcowan agrees
2020-09-27 20:35:42	jcowan	It is, without offense, a kludge that serves a purpose.
2020-09-27 20:36:00	lukee	theres that as well
2020-09-27 20:36:47	lukee	so what do you think a radically simple, gemini-inspired upload protocol would look like?
2020-09-27 20:36:58	jcowan	(Note however that "resource" != "sequence of bits with a media type"; HTTP lets you ask for the Dutch, English, or German version of a resource in that order of priority.)
2020-09-27 20:46:00	jcowan	(Conventions: Square bracket numbers are for reference; > means "client says", "<" means "server says"; <...> means "fill in here")
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	[1] > PUT <url>
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	[2] > 20 text/gemini
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	[3] > body
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	[4] < 20
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	(close, open again)
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	[5] > POST <url>
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	[6] > 20 application/json
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	[7] > <JSON value>
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	[8] < 20 application/json
2020-09-27 20:46:17	jcowan	[9] < <JSON value>
2020-09-27 20:47:18	jcowan	GET has a server body but no client body; PUT has a client body but no server body; POST has both; DELETE has neither
2020-09-27 20:48:01	lukee	Do we really need PUT and DELETE? The web got by without them
2020-09-27 20:48:25	jcowan	The basic reason the Web doesn't have them is the lack of client auth.
2020-09-27 20:48:44	jcowan	Again, how would you take down a resource without DELETE?
2020-09-27 20:48:52	jcowan	With FTP, plainly.
2020-09-27 20:49:00	lukee	you just post to a deleting end point
2020-09-27 20:49:23	lukee	the point is POST has side effects
2020-09-27 20:49:31	lukee	and those will vary by application
2020-09-27 20:49:33	jcowan	You could, except that logically there is no body to send and no body to receive.  Everything except GET has side effects.
2020-09-27 20:49:58	jcowan	A new set of verbs would not be a bad idea, as they would have no connotations
2020-09-27 20:50:17	aravk	I would actually argue that there doesn't need to be a protocol that encompasses everything
2020-09-27 20:50:22	jcowan	But logically speaking there are four of them.  You could eliminate this with a mime-type of "null"
2020-09-27 20:50:28	aravk	like personally I would ssh in and deal with this kind of thing
2020-09-27 20:50:45	aravk	gemini aims to deliver content from server -> client and that's it's thing
2020-09-27 20:50:53	lukee	aravk: ssh is good for early adopters but not end users IMO
2020-09-27 20:50:54	aravk	which I think is pretty good for most use cases
2020-09-27 20:51:04	jcowan	That's awkward for automation, though, when you want to take down your application's version 1 docs when version 1 is no longer supported.
2020-09-27 20:51:26	aravk	it's really not
2020-09-27 20:51:28	jcowan	Absolutely.  That's why (heh heh) I want a *new* protocol (blammo blammo)
2020-09-27 20:51:43	aravk	ssh ctrl-c.club rm -r ~/dir
2020-09-27 20:51:45	aravk	done
2020-09-27 20:52:13	aravk	and I think tildes nicely exhibit larger-scale ssh use for this kind of thing
2020-09-27 20:52:28	lukee	why not just use ssh for everything then? (rhetorical question)
2020-09-27 20:52:35	aravk	but I'm just here to provide some counter arguments
2020-09-27 20:52:57	jcowan	Sure.  Very useful.  "Without debate we do not have views, only random opinions"
2020-09-27 20:53:20	lukee	jcowan: I still dont understand why we need all 4 verbs, we just need an idempotent one, and a non-idempotent one
2020-09-27 20:53:43	lukee	(the equivalent of GET and POST) we have GET, just missing POST
2020-09-27 20:54:07	lukee	othewise I like it, just wondering if it can be simplified further
2020-09-27 20:54:09	jcowan	Another reason is that with explicit verbs, protocol-specific firewalls are easier
2020-09-27 20:54:27	lukee	why do we need that?
2020-09-27 20:54:48	jcowan	Ask your local infosec person!
2020-09-27 20:54:51	aravk	I actually had a super enlightening discussion on #meta discussing drawbacks of gemini (and by extension tls, tcp, etc.)
2020-09-27 20:55:12	aravk	things like Content-Length come to mind
2020-09-27 20:55:28	jcowan	aravk: can you post or mail me a copy of that?
2020-09-27 20:55:50	aravk	jcowan: the entire conversation?  I can try, but I'll have to figure out how to first
2020-09-27 20:56:09	jcowan	How about these verbs:  ASK, TELL, ASK-TELL, ACT?
2020-09-27 20:56:11	aravk	right now I don't think my irssi is logging, so it's gonna be a bit problematic, but I'll see what I can do
2020-09-27 20:56:20	jcowan	thanks
2020-09-27 20:56:21	lukee	aravk: it would be great if you can share on the chat so we can all see
2020-09-27 20:56:27	jcowan	Indeed.
2020-09-27 20:56:39	aravk	I'll put it on a pastebin somewhere
2020-09-27 20:56:46	aravk	does anybody have good pastebin recommendations actually
2020-09-27 20:56:53	jcowan	the list archives, pastebins do not
2020-09-27 20:56:58	jcowan	But of course both is fine
2020-09-27 20:57:16	aravk	I'll probably do the list archive
2020-09-27 20:58:11	ericonr	aravk: having implemented a dumb downloader that does a little bit of the HTTP header dance, Content-Length was really nice to have
2020-09-27 20:58:41	lukee	jcowan: I'm not sure why an infosec would be blocking specific protocol verbs on the firewall. Security requirements should be implemented on the resource itself.
2020-09-27 20:58:54	ericonr	in Gemini you just gotta wait for the socket to stop responding, but the connection can still be closed by someone else 
2020-09-27 20:59:26	jcowan	In the general case, yes.  But saying "This server is locked down to deletion" is not equivalent to saying "This resource, and this, and this ... are locked down to deletion."
2020-09-27 21:00:42	aravk	ericonr: exactly!
2020-09-27 21:00:49	aravk	this is the kind of stuff I never thought about
2020-09-27 21:00:53	lukee	but in general a POST is just as dangerous as any other non-idempotent verb
2020-09-27 21:01:32	lukee	if you expose the end point to a client, you have to implement a safe behaviour for it
2020-09-27 21:01:38	lukee	whatever that is
2020-09-27 21:01:42	jcowan	Yes, although arguably that's because of POST abuse.  Originally POST was supposed to mean "This is the URL of a container.  Add this body to that container and tell ne its URL."
2020-09-27 21:02:11	jcowan	(a logical container, of course)
2020-09-27 21:02:17	lukee	yes, but my point is POST is flexible enough to do what we need
2020-09-27 21:02:49	lukee	and it never was implemented as some kind of Pure thing (tm)
2020-09-27 21:02:59	jcowan	I think you may be right as long as the server is able (but not required) to return an URL in the protocol
2020-09-27 21:03:04	lukee	it is the non-idempotent verb, after all
2020-09-27 21:04:01	lukee	we have a redirect already in gemini, so you post, the server sends a "success" redirect to the uploaded resource
2020-09-27 21:05:18	lukee	I think from a Roy fielding REST othodoxy, you are probably right that these verbs should be disentangled. But pragmatically its not necessary
2020-09-27 21:05:31	lukee	and we can get by with two
2020-09-27 21:05:46	jcowan	You probably want a different status code, though
2020-09-27 21:05:54	lukee	quite possibly
2020-09-27 21:06:10	jcowan	redirect means to retry *the request URL*, where as this means *this is the URL of the response
2020-09-27 21:06:28	jcowan	Maybe those really are the same, I'm not sure.
2020-09-27 21:06:53		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-27 21:06:58	lukee	I think it can be specified if you get a redirect in response to a "post" then it is a success/here it is
2020-09-27 21:07:24	lukee	but we can think it through - maybe it helps in some cases
2020-09-27 21:09:19	lukee	so from a radical-simple-inspired-by-gemini protocol maybe we can just get by with a "post" protocol along the lines you suggest
2020-09-27 21:10:18	jcowan	In that cadse all we need is URL<SP>mime-type, which is an implicit post, so the server reads the new body
2020-09-27 21:11:01	jcowan	and then returns success, redirect, etc. etc
2020-09-27 21:11:23	jcowan	it could even (shhhh) be done by a Gemini server, since <SP> is not allowed in URLs.
2020-09-27 21:12:57	lukee	that is similar to what gopher had
2020-09-27 21:13:11	lukee	it used a tab to separate the payload from the URL
2020-09-27 21:13:45	aravk	ok, I've managed to get the relevant logs - will post to the ML
2020-09-27 21:14:02	aravk	it accepts text/plain attachments, right?
2020-09-27 21:14:06	lukee	which latterly got transformed into query style URLs, but originally it was a non-idempotent post type
2020-09-27 21:14:11	aravk	it's a 300 line text file
2020-09-27 21:14:36	lukee	aravk: it might generate a lot of upset
2020-09-27 21:14:47	aravk	don't mind
2020-09-27 21:14:52	aravk	better, even
2020-09-27 21:14:53	lukee	could you post it to a gemlog 
2020-09-27 21:14:58	lukee	and send a link?
2020-09-27 21:15:05	aravk	I still have no clue what a gemlog is
2020-09-27 21:15:28	aravk	even tried searching on GUS, getting no (relevant) results
2020-09-27 21:15:29	lukee	a page on a gemini host (e.g. your own if you have one?)
2020-09-27 21:15:42	lukee	like a blog/phlog
2020-09-27 21:15:43	aravk	yeah I have a think on ctrl-c.club
2020-09-27 21:15:46	aravk	I'll just post it there
2020-09-27 21:16:06	aravk	but I do want to expose the ML people to it, just for the sake of discussion
2020-09-27 21:16:18	aravk	because some important things are pointed out
2020-09-27 21:16:29	lukee	ok good luck
2020-09-27 21:16:33	aravk	heh :)
2020-09-27 21:17:48	lukee	jcowan: I like your suggestion to separate with <SP>
2020-09-27 21:18:18	lukee	I have been thinking along similar lines
2020-09-27 21:18:51	jcowan	I'll be baaaac
2020-09-27 21:19:31	aravk	should now be available at gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~aravk/irc-log-2020-09-27-about-gemini.txt
2020-09-27 21:41:43	alex11	there we go
2020-09-27 21:41:48	alex11	finally managed to get a client working lmfao
2020-09-27 21:44:21	lukee	aravk: I'm getting a resource not found at that url
2020-09-27 21:47:16	lukee	alex11: you got one working or you wrote a client?
2020-09-27 21:48:48	alex11	got one working
2020-09-27 21:48:55	alex11	i know
2020-09-27 21:48:57	alex11	i'm not proud
2020-09-27 21:50:10	ericonr	why didn't it work?
2020-09-27 21:53:09	lukee	its not as easy as it ought to be
2020-09-27 21:55:15	ericonr	well, there are distros shipping gemini browsers, so on those it's quite straightforward c:
2020-09-27 21:55:37	ericonr	if you go outside that it can become a PITA pretty fast, I guess
2020-09-27 21:56:03	alex11	lol i didn't even think to check the debian repos
2020-09-27 21:56:05	alex11	oh well
2020-09-27 21:57:15	alex11	quite a few of them seem to not be there though
2020-09-27 21:57:17	alex11	whatever
2020-09-27 21:57:45	alex11	apt search gemini returns nothing
2020-09-27 21:58:10	alex11	it does have at least one for gopher
2020-09-27 22:04:36	lukee	to be fair, gopher has been around for a while, gemini is barely a year and a bit old
2020-09-27 22:05:31		boringcactus has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 22:06:47	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 22:06:47	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-27 22:06:47	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-09-27 22:06:47	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 109 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 107 normals)
2020-09-27 22:06:47	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-27 22:07:11	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-27 22:07:12	alex11	for sure
2020-09-27 22:07:18	alex11	i didn't check Backports
2020-09-27 22:17:25		tutti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 22:32:09	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 22:45:55	lukee	good night all, time to remember I am supposed to be diurnal
2020-09-27 22:46:20		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-27 22:48:12	@tomasino	nite
2020-09-27 22:59:40	kevinsan	tomasino: are you able to get the #meta chat logs from earlier? if so, i'd be happy to delete the irrelevant stuff and put the rest up (i think the above link gives a 'not found')
2020-09-27 22:59:51	kevinsan	though it might be a case of 'ggdG' :)
2020-09-27 23:23:30		ehmry has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-27 23:24:01	jcowan	I realized that code 30 can't be used by a Dioscuri server to mean 'result is at this URL', because that would mean 'retry posting at this URL'.  So we need a code 21 for which META is the URL.
2020-09-27 23:25:21	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:45:53		jlj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		caranatar has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		tildebeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		jns has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		kvothe has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		lrb has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		dkibi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		doppler has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		sumpygump has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		g has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		paulgorman has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		Siinamon has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		tildebot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		oms has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		rak has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		CoopDot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		calmbit has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		djph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		jrhorn424 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		jucelo has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:53		emily has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		lucidiot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		Sario has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		scifi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		bandali has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		ericonr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		Gemino has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		swift has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		xj9 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		tsp has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		autumnova has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		calamitous has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		anton|pw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		rmgr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		lewiscowper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		kevinsan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		tejr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		obrut has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		enpo has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		boringcactus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		fleeky has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		vulpine has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		dokuja has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		ehmry has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		swinslow has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		alex11 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		nikita has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		hhes has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		Cadey has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		easeout has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		wangofett has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		cel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		exprez135 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		aravk has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		everbern has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		mozz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		paper_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		admicos has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		rjt_znc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		flexibeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		appll has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		hannu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		jcowan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		cyrus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		sandra has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		lanodan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		tude has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		idf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		Ekkie has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		omni has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:45:54		omse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	emily has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	tsp has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	aravk has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:21	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:26	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:29	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:32	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:46:54	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-09-27 23:46:59	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:48:34	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:13	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:19	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	swift has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	vulpine has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	autumnova has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	sumpygump has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	lrb has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:27	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by team.tilde.chat
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:50:43	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:51:02	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:51:02	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:51:02	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:51:02	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:51:02	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:51:02	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:51:02	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:51:02	▬▬▶	tude has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:51:02	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:52:02	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:52:13		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-27 23:52:23	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:52:48		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-27 23:52:55	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:54:06	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-27 23:55:33		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-27 23:55:45	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:27		jlj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		patrick has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		caranatar has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		bacterio has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		lel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		tildebeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		jns has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		kvothe has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		tiwesdaeg has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		southerntofu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		mhj has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		kayw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		benoliver999 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		lrb has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		dkibi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		doppler has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		sumpygump has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		g has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		xfnw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		paulgorman has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		Siinamon has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		tildebot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		oms has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		rak has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		CoopDot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		calmbit has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		djph has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		gbmor has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		jrhorn424 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		jucelo has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		emily has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		lucidiot has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		seisatsu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		Sario has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		scifi has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		wgreenhouse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		Gemino has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		ericonr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		creme has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		swift has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		tsp has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		dodolz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		autumnova has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		calamitous has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		anton|pw has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		rmgr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		CommunistWolf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		wingy has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		lewiscowper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		kevinsan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		tejr has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		obrut has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		enpo has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		boringcactus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		tastytea has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		fleeky has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		vulpine has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		dokuja has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		erin has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		StygianBlues has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		makeworld has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		krjst has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		bard has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		ehmry has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		swinslow has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		alex11 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		nikita has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		hhes has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		Cadey has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		ben has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		easeout has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		wangofett has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		cel has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		exprez135 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		aravk has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		everbern has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		login has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		jan6 has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		epoch has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		mozz has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		paper_ has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		admicos has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		rjt_znc has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		flexibeast has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		hannu has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		appll has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		jcowan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		cyrus has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		lanodan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		tude has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		idf has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		paper has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		jan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		julienxx has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		gohan has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		omni has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:27		omse has quit (cosmic.tilde.chat hub.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	caranatar has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	emily has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	tsp has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	aravk has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:51	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:52	▬▬▶	flexibeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:55	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:09:59	▬▬▶	rak has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:05	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	swift has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	vulpine has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	autumnova has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	sumpygump has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	lrb has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	everbern has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:21	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by team.tilde.chat
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	rjt_znc has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:29	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:32	▬▬▶	Siinamon has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:33	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	▬��▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	▬▬▶	tude has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:10:34	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-09-28 00:12:07	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:13:08	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:30:01		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-09-28 00:32:28	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:38:18		everbern has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-28 00:38:32	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:43:31	▬▬▶	ryst has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 00:59:11	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 02:08:34	mhj	So apparently, if you haven't heard the news, a company on Amazon is selling Rock64's(A Pine64 SBC) for like $17(Now. They used to be $8, but I got in too late). I'm thinking of throwing Armbian on it, and spin-up a gemini server on it, after I lock down everything and put it in a DMZ.
2020-09-28 02:10:09	mhj	https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0868WSTXH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2020-09-28 02:10:50	mhj	Search for "Iconikal Rockchip" if you can't get the link working
2020-09-28 02:34:05		Gemino has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-28 02:37:06	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 03:06:47		doppler has quit (Changing host)
2020-09-28 03:06:47	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 03:16:31		caranatar has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		emily has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		tsp has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		lewiscowper has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		tejr has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		swinslow has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		alex11 has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		nikita has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		hhes has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		ryst has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		jan has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:31		gohan has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 03:16:46	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 03:17:18	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 03:20:22	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 03:20:48	▬▬▶	tsp has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 03:35:27	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 03:35:41	▬▬▶	ryst has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 04:43:13	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 04:43:29	ℹ 	alex1138 is now known as alex11
2020-09-28 04:52:06		boringcactus has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-28 05:26:19	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 05:26:37	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 06:19:37	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 06:37:05		jan has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-28 06:47:55	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 08:13:06	kevinsan	mhj: this was $9 a week or so ago - hard to imagine how this is achieved.
2020-09-28 08:18:03	kevinsan	what i find most interesting though is the efforts to produce a risc-v/gpu hybrid - so far, only 2d at the moment i think, but that would be plenty good for a lot of stuff.
2020-09-28 09:05:58		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-28 09:11:45	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 09:17:35		boringcactus has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-28 09:30:15	▬▬▶	rain1 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 09:42:45		jcowan has quit (Connection closed)
2020-09-28 09:42:47	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 10:38:08	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 10:47:39	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 11:11:04	▬▬▶	tutti_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 12:13:04		tutti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-28 12:15:47	mhj	kevinsan: I would love anything risc-v at this point lol
2020-09-28 12:17:03	mhj	Also morning all
2020-09-28 13:20:00	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 13:20:00	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-28 13:20:00	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-09-28 13:20:00	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 105 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 103 normals)
2020-09-28 13:20:00	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-28 13:20:24	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-28 14:12:02	rain1	hi
2020-09-28 14:35:05	login	hi rain1 
2020-09-28 14:39:09	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 14:46:27	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 16:04:43	rain1	is there gui clients for gemini?
2020-09-28 16:06:48	@tomasino	yep
2020-09-28 16:06:51	@tomasino	quite a few
2020-09-28 16:07:01	@tomasino	i like Kristall personally. There are prebuilt binaries on the website
2020-09-28 16:09:02	boringcactus	also a fan of Kristall
2020-09-28 16:09:25	felix	Same. Also look up Geminaut and Castor, just in case.
2020-09-28 16:09:58	felix	But Kristall is the one I can actually run, and it's good.
2020-09-28 16:10:00	@tomasino	and the A one...
2020-09-28 16:10:01	rain1	is there a place i can see screenshots of them?
2020-09-28 16:10:16	@tomasino	https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall
2020-09-28 16:10:19	@tomasino	scroll down for pics
2020-09-28 16:10:26	@tomasino	but it's theme-able
2020-09-28 16:10:34	@tomasino	you can swap to a dark theme, or pick your own colors/fonts
2020-09-28 16:10:42	felix	They all have screenshots on their respective websites.
2020-09-28 16:10:43	@tomasino	https://kristall.random-projects.net
2020-09-28 16:10:52	@tomasino	actual website with download links 
2020-09-28 16:11:09	rain1	wow impressive
2020-09-28 16:21:39	jns	I three like Kristall!
2020-09-28 16:22:07	jns	it's also become my preferred way to browse gopher
2020-09-28 16:22:15	jns	at least, when i have a gui available
2020-09-28 16:25:51	felix	I just appreciate not having to change browsers when links cross protocols.
2020-09-28 16:26:25	xj9	kristall is my go-to as well, at least until i learn enough limbo to be a danger to myself and others
2020-09-28 16:27:46	xj9	i'm surprised by how many of the websites i visit render properly in kristall
2020-09-28 16:28:01	xj9	i <3 good simple html sites
2020-09-28 16:28:52	mhj	I'm personally using bombadillo, but I have used geminaut before and it was good. Haven't tried Kristall yet, but it looks awesome.
2020-09-28 16:29:33	felix	Bombadillo is fine too, but in the terminal I switched to Amfora.
2020-09-28 16:29:52	xfnw	:( i broke my install of jetforce so now i nolonger have a selfhosted gemini pod
2020-09-28 16:30:00	felix	Aw.
2020-09-28 16:30:10	mhj	=/
2020-09-28 16:32:49	mhj	Did you have a backup anywhere of the install? Hmm. You could install Go and try the Molly Brown gemini server, it's what I use on FreeBSD, but it works on Linux too
2020-09-28 16:44:29		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-28 16:53:10	rain1	I made a gui gopher client
2020-09-28 16:53:21	felix	Do tell!
2020-09-28 16:53:31	rain1	i used vala and GTK for the gui
2020-09-28 16:53:41	felix	Sounds good!
2020-09-28 16:54:12	rain1	https://notabug.org/rain1/gopher
2020-09-28 16:54:46	rain1	https://cdn.niu.moe/media_attachments/files/004/822/502/original/fcab8db1e71493bb.png
2020-09-28 16:55:24	ericonr	rain1: > as well as the "\n\r" instead of "\r\n" bug <-- thank god I'm not the only one who gets these confused :D
2020-09-28 16:55:52	rain1	I feel like \n alone may be sufficient these days - but gemini is still using \n\r?
2020-09-28 16:57:04	felix	\r\n is mandated by many network protocols, likely to reduce ambiguity.
2020-09-28 16:57:49	ericonr	yeah, I'm okay with requiring two characters to make line breaks very clear
2020-09-28 16:57:51	felix	And that looks good! I don't have Vala installed here, but I'll try on another box if I don't forget.
2020-09-28 16:57:58	ericonr	doesn't mean I don't get confused about the order, tho
2020-09-28 17:19:38	jcowan	felix: Nothing to do with ambiguity, just the standard way to divide text lines, based on the Model 33 teletype.  Because Unix came from Bell Labs, they had access to Model 37 TTYs, in which lower case was available and LF could be used as a line ending.
2020-09-28 17:57:36		boringcactus has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		jlj has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		benoliver999 has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		g has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		djph has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		Sario has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		dodolz has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		calamitous has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		bard has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		aravk has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:39		felix has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-09-28 18:08:45	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:08:45	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:08:45	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:09:10	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:09:10	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:09:10	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:09:11	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:09:22	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:09:24	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:13:41	▬▬▶	aravk has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:14:26	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:15:42	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:16:31	lukee	hi folks. Another day of cat herding over, another evening of shark-swimming begun.
2020-09-28 18:26:05	felix	Yikes.
2020-09-28 18:27:54	lukee	believe me, my cat does not appreciate being told what to do
2020-09-28 18:28:13	felix	:D
2020-09-28 18:29:16	lukee	his current favourite spot is on top of my mousemat. He likes the cushioned feel.
2020-09-28 18:29:35	lukee	when I pull out the mouse from underneath him, he bit me.
2020-09-28 18:29:43	lukee	Just like life really.
2020-09-28 18:30:38	jcowan	Yes, well, no kidding.  Coming between predator and prey is never a Good Plan.
2020-09-28 18:30:51	felix	That's a cat all right.
2020-09-28 18:31:13	★	tomasino is a predator for sammiches... and goes off hunting
2020-09-28 18:32:05	lukee	jcowan: good to see your post earlier. You seem to have more patience than I would for dealing with facetious comments.
2020-09-28 18:32:57	felix	I should go. See you!
2020-09-28 18:33:05	lukee	bye felix
2020-09-28 18:33:20		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-28 18:40:21		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-28 18:40:54	▬▬▶	dax has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 18:43:32	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 19:16:07		dax has quit (quit: brb)
2020-09-28 19:16:29	▬▬▶	dax has joined #gemini
2020-09-28 20:31:48	rain1	hi
2020-09-28 21:19:47	michel	rain1: hola
2020-09-28 21:34:21		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-28 22:31:11		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-28 23:12:46	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 02:45:42	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-09-29 02:46:21	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 02:46:21	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-09-29 02:46:21	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-09-29 02:46:21	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 106 nicks (2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 104 normals)
2020-09-29 02:46:21	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-09-29 02:46:59	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-09-29 05:42:09	ℹ 	Siinamon is now known as siina
2020-09-29 06:50:09		alex11 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-29 07:02:48	ehmry	what do people think about archiving and mirroring? does making git repositories for content discoverable sound reasonable?
2020-09-29 07:18:05	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 07:33:38		tiwesdaeg has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 08:15:28	kevinsan	ehmry: from an etiquette point of view, consensus seems to be that archiving would be an impolite imposition on the author's choice to retract
2020-09-29 08:16:09	boringcactus	how do search engines handle that?
2020-09-29 08:16:20	ehmry	kevinsan: don't care
2020-09-29 08:16:24	kevinsan	though from a technical point of view, that's irrelevant. it's built into the digital medium
2020-09-29 08:16:27	ehmry	yes
2020-09-29 08:16:49	boringcactus	ehh bad citizenship is in poor taste
2020-09-29 08:17:02	kevinsan	boringcactus: if i delete something, then gus no longer indexes it, i suppose.
2020-09-29 08:17:20	kevinsan	ehmry: don't care about what?
2020-09-29 08:17:51	ehmry	consensus is that people publish things so other people read them
2020-09-29 08:18:13	kevinsan	for the record, i have no opinion on archiving. sometimes it's handy, sometimes embarrassing
2020-09-29 08:18:24	ehmry	redacting and censorship are indistinguishable from the perspective of the reader
2020-09-29 08:18:41	boringcactus	well
2020-09-29 08:18:48	boringcactus	one of them is in opposition to the author's wishes
2020-09-29 08:18:55	kevinsan	ehmry: you asked what do people think about it, i answered an opinion, and you said you don't care.
2020-09-29 08:18:56	boringcactus	one of them is in accord with them
2020-09-29 08:19:08	kevinsan	i hope you're not being antagonistic, because i cba :)
2020-09-29 08:19:56	boringcactus	i wish i had the confidence to go into an irc and say "what do y'all think about this" and hear "it's a dick move" and say "i don't care" and hear "bruh" and say "i hope you're not being antagonistic :)"
2020-09-29 08:20:42	boringcactus	evidently per gemini://gus.guru/documentation/indexing GUS respects a robots.txt and will un-index files that get deleted or from hosts that go down
2020-09-29 08:21:28	boringcactus	if you wanted to make the Gemini Archive it should at a bare minimum respect robots.txt, and respect it retroactively, like the actual Internet Archive does
2020-09-29 08:21:30	kevinsan	boringcactus: it just makes noise - particularly when i have no opinion myself on the subject.
2020-09-29 08:21:49	boringcactus	oh i misread who was who there
2020-09-29 08:21:50	boringcactus	oops
2020-09-29 08:22:02	boringcactus	snark retracted
2020-09-29 08:22:10	boringcactus	partially
2020-09-29 08:22:14	ehmry	look, I will archive whatever pages I like, regardless of what the authors wishes are, - what I am asking is if anyone is interested in making archiving easier _for those that wish their sites to be archived_
2020-09-29 08:22:15	kevinsan	i like that gus is respectful in this way, but i don't expect that everyone will be - real world never fits my expectations,
2020-09-29 08:22:44	kevinsan	ehmry: that is not what you asked
2020-09-29 08:23:22	ehmry	kevinsan: I'm trying to tell you what I'm asking
2020-09-29 08:23:23	kevinsan	please, go ahead and archive anything of mine. or don't, i don't even keep logs
2020-09-29 08:28:57	boringcactus	man it'd been so long since i ran into the "i will do this thing regardless of how much of a dick move it is, i don't care" attitude that i forgot it existed outside the hackernews techbro crowd
2020-09-29 08:29:07		boringcactus has left #gemini ("The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat")
2020-09-29 08:29:50	kevinsan	ha, i know - it's like getting the reddit experience right here on IRC
2020-09-29 08:30:52	kevinsan	i think of it as a gift, emotional provocation for free - no advert, no tracking, just good ol' poking and trolling.
2020-09-29 08:34:35	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 08:38:22	lukee	hello folks
2020-09-29 08:38:31	kevinsan	morning lukee :)
2020-09-29 08:39:25	lukee	for what its worth, I think there are two different kinds of archive. One that one makes for a sort of personal or offline use, perhaps as a sort of memory aid. These I have no problem with
2020-09-29 08:40:18	lukee	the other kind, is some sort of larger, automatically created archive, designed for sharing with a wider audience. These should really respect robots.txt if they want to be good citizens
2020-09-29 08:41:08	lukee	the border is a bit blurry I admit
2020-09-29 08:41:31	kevinsan	they're really the same thing used for different purposes. even a cache is an archive, where the intention is to delete it at some point in the future
2020-09-29 08:41:35	lukee	but those are the archetypes 
2020-09-29 08:42:06	lukee	yes the act of content gathering is just to use whatever technology lets you do
2020-09-29 08:43:27	lukee	but ultimately as writers who put stuff into the public sphere, once you press send/submit/go, you have to accept you dont have full control anymore
2020-09-29 08:43:28	kevinsan	they are a net gain, they are also unavoidable, so any downsides just have to be mitigated. that's why the option of anonymity is important 
2020-09-29 08:43:58	kevinsan	exactly. there's no avoiding that, so why waste brain time on it
2020-09-29 08:46:17	kevinsan	the only issue i have is the environmental impact of wasting storage space on my anti-kitten rants - i mean, i hate them with a passion. they're all low iq, they're colluding to drive up 5G usage, and really they run the world.
2020-09-29 08:46:31	flexibeast	lol
2020-09-29 08:46:55	lukee	perhaps ehmry's question is whether there is a mechanism to announce your site structure, like a sitemap.xml
2020-09-29 08:47:25	kevinsan	bwt, i love kittens. they are cute af!
2020-09-29 08:48:01	flexibeast	lukee: i interpreted it to mean: "Is this technical approach to archiving reasonable from a technical point of view?"
2020-09-29 08:48:18	lukee	my own answer to my own question is that gemini is so simple you dont need a sitemap.xml, just parse the gemini
2020-09-29 08:48:56	lukee	there should be a kittens.xml at the root of every site
2020-09-29 08:50:57	kevinsan	flexibeast: re-read - ehmry asked two questions. the first is unambiguous, the second asks ' and is it reasonable to make content discoverable?'
2020-09-29 08:52:18	kevinsan	the questions are fair enough, the subsequent responses were antagonistic, either due to stupidity or trolling. either way, he's first to go, come the revolution :)
2020-09-29 08:53:16	kevinsan	and, as with kittens, i am jk!
2020-09-29 08:53:59	lukee	I'm glad you clarified that :)
2020-09-29 08:54:35	flexibeast	kevinsan: In the context of the second question, which i interpreted as i wrote above, the first question read to me as "What are people's thoughts on the best technical approach to archiving and mirroring?" But i think your own intepretation of both questions seems very reasonable to me.
2020-09-29 08:54:45	kevinsan	i just wanted to reassure ehmry, since in my experience people like that are emotionally weak.
2020-09-29 08:55:48	flexibeast	The mention of git, a specific technology, was what drove my own interpretations.
2020-09-29 08:56:23	lukee	lol
2020-09-29 08:57:48	kevinsan	flexibeast: i am willing, under duress, to accept your interpretation as valid and therefore ehmry's response to be more meaningful, if still antagonistic.
2020-09-29 08:57:55	★	kevinsan is the master of concession
2020-09-29 08:58:13	lukee	flexibeast: was your choice of technology that sprang to mind a Freudian slip?
2020-09-29 08:59:20	★	lukee has an overactive sense of imagination
2020-09-29 09:00:16	kevinsan	do you really have a 'sense of imagination' or just an 'imagination'
2020-09-29 09:00:26	lukee	yes thanks
2020-09-29 09:00:45	kevinsan	omg, maybe *i'm* the antagonistic one... hang on while I have an epiphany
2020-09-29 09:01:18	flexibeast	kevinsan: Heh, well, yes, i find "don't care" wrt author wishes to be .... unpleasant at best.
2020-09-29 09:01:33	kevinsan	:) i thought that was quite a good little joke. i set it up.
2020-09-29 09:02:02	flexibeast	lukee: Sorry, i don't follow .... ? ehmry wrote: "does making git repositories for content discoverable sound reasonable?"
2020-09-29 09:02:24	kevinsan	i won't be writing for stand-up, but i may still get a chuckle in a pub.
2020-09-29 09:03:21	lukee	well in the context of the slighly antagonistic exchanges above, to suddenly think of a technology called git, is way ahead of itself. 
2020-09-29 09:03:22	kevinsan	ok, so it's nice and cold out, blue skies forever, and i'm off to get me some vitamin-d
2020-09-29 09:03:22	lukee	maybe
2020-09-29 09:03:39	lukee	it made me laugh anyway
2020-09-29 09:03:56	★	lukee is easily amused
2020-09-29 09:04:35	flexibeast	Okay, well, i'm lost, sorry. :-)
2020-09-29 09:05:52	kevinsan	and ehmry, if you do make a searchable and discoverable git archive of gemini-space, please don't forget to announce it on the mailing list.
2020-09-29 09:06:29	lukee	the term "git" is UK slang for a person who is somewhat bloody minded, self-centred and not hugely regarding of social norms
2020-09-29 09:06:57	lukee	I think that is why Torvalds called git, git as a sort of joke
2020-09-29 09:07:40	ehmry	I don't want to propose to use git explicitly for archiving but some discoverable hint on how to mirror content, it could be rsync as well
2020-09-29 09:08:30	ehmry	I bring it up because I've been looking at BBS-style magazines that are indented to be mirrored
2020-09-29 09:08:35	flexibeast	Oh i understand that meaning of 'git'. :-) i'm just saying that it wasn't me that brought up git, but ehmry, in the initial questions.
2020-09-29 09:08:43	flexibeast	'intended'
2020-09-29 09:08:51	ehmry	right
2020-09-29 09:09:11	kevinsan	ehmry: i mean, git's efficient, handles text paticularly well. rsync risks losing/clobbering stuff
2020-09-29 09:09:19	lukee	OK we have multiple layers of misunderstanding here. I am on top of the pile
2020-09-29 09:09:44	lukee	or bottom, not sure
2020-09-29 09:10:18	kevinsan	lukee: it only matters where gravity is involved
2020-09-29 09:10:24	ehmry	and caching stuff like news is important, because edits to news that has already been published is news itself
2020-09-29 09:10:34	★	lukee considers the risks of joining a conversation half way through
2020-09-29 09:11:59	kevinsan	ehmry: in every use-case you mention, your git suggestion fits perfectly
2020-09-29 09:12:56	kevinsan	if nothing else, but to provide a journal of content evolution that can be used to generate, e.g. searchable information
2020-09-29 09:14:04	kevinsan	that is, perhaps you don't use git as the searchable database, but rather the source database. though gemini-space is so small, git would work for either right now.
2020-09-29 09:15:14	kevinsan	i think i'm going to use that for a project i'm working on right now. it's a great idea. do you have anything you've done so far that you are demoing?
2020-09-29 09:15:22	lukee	Can I claw my way back in to understand what is the suggestion now: to use Git as a way to archive a third party site over time?
2020-09-29 09:15:44	kevinsan	just using git to archive and version content.
2020-09-29 09:16:07	lukee	your own or someone else's?
2020-09-29 09:16:09	kevinsan	i.e. content fetched from a 3rd party server,
2020-09-29 09:16:14	lukee	ok
2020-09-29 09:16:32	lukee	or better, use Hg
2020-09-29 09:17:04	kevinsan	right now, I'm doing a survey of Gemini sites. just the index page of each site, collecting info such as certificate type used, expired state, and the landing page content.
2020-09-29 09:17:08	ehmry	lukee: sure, hg is fine, it would just be nice to find a hg clone link if the author wants to make one available
2020-09-29 09:17:58	lukee	I'm sure git is fine if you spend enough time with it, I am just sad Hg didn't become the de-facto standard
2020-09-29 09:18:22	kevinsan	what i want to do is provide a list of site TLS problems that could impact access, but also apply some heuristics to the front page to figure out how 'active' the site is.
2020-09-29 09:19:09	lukee	sounds interesting, but hard
2020-09-29 09:19:27	lukee	often the change happens on a sub-page, like the gemlog
2020-09-29 09:20:32	kevinsan	yep, really just doing things one step at a time. so, if i calculate a site to be 'stale' but it isn't, i'll evolve it to cope.
2020-09-29 09:20:38	lukee	sounds like a perfect application of GPT-3
2020-09-29 09:21:00	kevinsan	out of interest, what does Hg have over git that would benefit ehmry's application?
2020-09-29 09:21:10	lukee	nothing, just a better UI
2020-09-29 09:22:21	kevinsan	ok, i suppose git does feel a bit like hacking an unusually complex filesystem at the sector level.
2020-09-29 09:22:24	★	lukee is learning the minimal amount of git to survive the outside world
2020-09-29 09:23:53	lukee	what are the heuristics you would use to guess the staleness of any page from its content?
2020-09-29 09:24:37	lukee	obviously you can just hash the content and compare that, but my sense is you are trying to do something else?
2020-09-29 09:25:33	kevinsan	staleness is a bit inaccurate - i'm more interested in identifying "June 2019: this is my new capsule, i'm not sure what to write here. EOF"
2020-09-29 09:26:00	lukee	lol, there are quite a few of those
2020-09-29 09:26:15	kevinsan	so, number of links, do they link to gemini-space, number of paragraphs, etc.
2020-09-29 09:27:02	lukee	whether the current year appears as text on the gemlog page
2020-09-29 09:27:23	kevinsan	then push paragraph text through spaCy to pick out nouns/verbs/etc, and use that to further classify the content
2020-09-29 09:27:48	ehmry	so I can think of three topics here that can get blurred together, hints for caches (squid-style), personaly archiving, and mirroring static content
2020-09-29 09:27:51	lukee	what is the overall objective?
2020-09-29 09:27:54	kevinsan	the date was used just to convey that a site has been dormant for a long time, with no meaningful content every having been written
2020-09-29 09:29:04	kevinsan	lukee: discovery of interesting stuff, by eliminating 'non-content', and ultimately searching based on NLP processed search index.
2020-09-29 09:29:09	ehmry	I'm interested in personal archiving and mirroring, but the mirroring thing is something that it would be nice to have standards and practices for
2020-09-29 09:29:46	ehmry	the objective is that nothing dispears which is intended to disappear
2020-09-29 09:29:47	lukee	ehmry - what do you think needs to be standardised?
2020-09-29 09:30:49	ehmry	an inverse robots.txt?
2020-09-29 09:31:11	kevinsan	ehmry: if you wait for standards and practices, honestly I think you'll get nothing done. better just to do it, share it, ask opinions, evolve it.
2020-09-29 09:31:12	lukee	like sitemap.xml?
2020-09-29 09:31:46	ehmry	maybe, I don't know anything about sitemap.xml, but I remember sitemaps for the early www
2020-09-29 09:32:01	lukee	I agree with kevinsan. The mere mention of the word standards seems to bring the gemini community out in hives
2020-09-29 09:32:47	kevinsan	lukee: I don't think that's totally fair - if you ask opinions, you'll get them, and they won't all align with yours.
2020-09-29 09:32:54	lukee	I would say that gemini is simple enough to be parsed, the content itself is enough. And always up to date
2020-09-29 09:33:14	ehmry	if no one else is interested in this I should just shut up for now
2020-09-29 09:33:17	★	kevinsan means 'yours' as much as 'mine'.
2020-09-29 09:33:24	lukee	that is always true
2020-09-29 09:34:01	kevinsan	ehmry: we're interested enough to have chatted about it. what i'm saying is go and make something that can be talked about *and* contributed to.
2020-09-29 09:34:18	★	ehmry needs to read up on the history of sitemaps
2020-09-29 09:34:52	kevinsan	if you have some archiving and discovery service that I can use, i'll certainly make time to incorporate my stuff into it, if that's what you need.
2020-09-29 09:37:01	lukee	POC > theory
2020-09-29 09:37:58	kevinsan	and ehmry, be aware that inaction or silence isn't a reflection of your ideas. Solderpunk runs CAPCOM, I've had a capsule for quite a while and only very recently bothered to add it to CAPCOM. Such is inertia!
2020-09-29 09:39:14	lukee	where is Solderpunk  - he seems to be on sabbatical
2020-09-29 09:41:24	kevinsan	i don't know, i believe s/he is a mythical creature that is rumoured to frequent 'the other dimension' where matter is said to rule
2020-09-29 09:41:27	kevinsan	:)
2020-09-29 09:43:22	lukee	he managed to exit this realm and decided not to renew his ISP contract
2020-09-29 09:45:32	kevinsan	that sentence just provoked the weirdest feeling of wanting to pull the plug on my router. but then I thought 'ah, my phone'...
2020-09-29 09:46:32	lukee	and I though, yes I should go and do some other stuff. then realised most of the things I need to do involve replying to emails :/
2020-09-29 09:46:45	lukee	such is my exciting life
2020-09-29 09:47:04	kevinsan	yeah, well i'm off out in the sunshine mate :)
2020-09-29 09:47:12	kevinsan	c ya
2020-09-29 09:47:16	lukee	good idea - catch you later
2020-09-29 09:47:34		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-29 10:09:01		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-09-29 10:12:02	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 11:57:59	▬▬▶	sprung has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 12:02:05	rain1	I don't really get this. It doesn't seem like much different than gopher, and I'm not a big fan of OpenSSL so adding this crypto isn't appealing to me.
2020-09-29 12:18:11		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 12:20:30	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 12:35:55	jcowan	rain1: In the opinion of Gemini fans (which now includes me), it is just enough "bigger" than gopher to avoid becoming a pile of hacks, but not so big that (like HTTP) it has become a pile of hacks.  
2020-09-29 12:36:57	jcowan	(I don't care about the crypto either, but I am not obsessed with privacy as many people are.)
2020-09-29 12:37:31	jcowan	s/not/not as
2020-09-29 12:39:04	jcowan	In particular, it exploits things like URLs and media-types that barely existed when gopher was invented.
2020-09-29 12:51:51	ericonr	crypto is often less about the added privacy and more about avoid tampering :P
2020-09-29 12:52:06	ericonr	and there are many SSL impls, one doesn't need to use OpenSSL
2020-09-29 13:04:41		rjt_znc has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 13:29:22	jcowan	ericonr: Do MitM attacks against static documents even make sense?  Whey would anyone want to do them?  I consult documentation pages hundreds of times a day, and it never occurs to me to wonder "Is this documentation really from the server, or am I the victim of MitM?"
2020-09-29 14:27:22	oms	"consensus seems to be that archiving would be an impolite imposition on the author's choice to retract"
2020-09-29 14:27:27	oms	whose consensus is that?
2020-09-29 14:28:42	kevinsan	mine
2020-09-29 14:34:30	ehmry	oms: there is no consensus, all the things I've seen against archiving seem to acknowledge that there is no way to stop it
2020-09-29 14:34:43	CoopDot	I agree on it being impolite. However, being impolite is sometimes unavoidable
2020-09-29 14:37:26	ehmry	I archive nearly all the webpages I find interesting, archiving and retrieving information is half the point of having computers at all
2020-09-29 14:37:32	oms	I'm not meaning to ask aggressively, btw, just curious about the norms and where I can read more. (although I do disagree)
2020-09-29 14:37:44	rain1	I am glad archive.org exist
2020-09-29 14:37:50	ehmry	since before computers this was the point toring and retrieving information is why we have these damn things anyway, 
2020-09-29 14:37:53	ehmry	whoos
2020-09-29 14:38:31	ehmry	this was the whole point on the memex and xanadu which preceded the web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memex
2020-09-29 14:40:38	ehmry	I already transfer snapshots of pages with friends rather than send links
2020-09-29 14:40:50	rain1	how do you do that? I like that 
2020-09-29 14:42:40	ehmry	there is a webmemex plugin for firefox https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/webmemex/ https://blog.webmemex.org/
2020-09-29 14:42:49	rain1	oh cool
2020-09-29 14:43:27	rain1	omg
2020-09-29 14:43:30	rain1	when you hilight text on that page
2020-09-29 14:43:33	rain1	it makes it into a # lik
2020-09-29 14:43:35	rain1	link
2020-09-29 14:43:37	rain1	that's so cool
2020-09-29 14:43:46	rain1	this is making me sad about how bad the web is
2020-09-29 14:43:56	▬▬▶	tiwesdaeg has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 14:43:56	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+qo tiwesdaeg tiwesdaeg] by ChanServ
2020-09-29 14:44:02	ehmry	its nice because all the javascript is executed and then removed when its saved, so the snapshots work in simple browsers
2020-09-29 14:44:07		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-29 14:45:37		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 14:45:45	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 14:46:51	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 14:51:17	xj9	so xanadu is a contemporary of engelbert huh? https://tube.blob.cat/videos/watch/ab1388b9-6180-4be9-9a42-68e57d029915
2020-09-29 14:53:06	rain1	I feel like we should design something that can handle web apps
2020-09-29 14:53:47	ehmry	idk, I assum englebert came before, and I think it refers more to the memex then ted
2020-09-29 14:54:17	ehmry	englebert was totally into the memex
2020-09-29 14:54:25	xj9	both are ~1960
2020-09-29 14:54:38	xj9	they'd be gemapps though
2020-09-29 14:54:48	xj9	since gemini isn't the web
2020-09-29 14:56:19	xj9	i can see the value of having a simple well-defined way to send information from gemini clients to gemini servers, but there's still the question of the power to weight ratio.
2020-09-29 14:56:25	aravk	rain1:if you want web apps go to #html or something
2020-09-29 14:57:53	xj9	then again, something like 9p could be used to expose an interactive filesystem interface without extending gemini.
2020-09-29 15:03:22	rain1	that channel is empty
2020-09-29 15:03:59	kevinsan	oms: you would have to scan the mailing list and irc logs to read more, my words above are just my take.
2020-09-29 15:04:26	kevinsan	I personally think that there's nothing that can be done to avoid archiving, and so there's nothing to discuss. I also think archiving, search, and processing of information is a great thing. I'm in favour.
2020-09-29 15:08:04		rain1 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-09-29 15:09:19	ehmry	xj9: rain1: i think xmpp supports serving apps in some sense, but I've never seen it used
2020-09-29 15:21:32	aravk	rain1: then make it if you want; for gemini, 'web apps' are a *non-goal*
2020-09-29 15:21:58	aravk	(that's my opinion, at least, but I'm pretty sure it's correct)
2020-09-29 15:34:05	kevinsan	here's a very simple app that I think is genuinely useful gemini://gemini.susa.net/vim_faq_command_line.gmi
2020-09-29 15:36:30	kevinsan	this sort of 'micro-app' approach uses sort of customised clients to provide some bit of app functionality.
2020-09-29 15:49:26	aravk	ok that's pretty cool
2020-09-29 15:49:35	aravk	but importantly the app isn't holding any real state
2020-09-29 15:49:41	aravk	it's a simple query mechanism
2020-09-29 15:50:08	aravk	when I said 'web apps' I meant more complicated and interactive things
2020-09-29 15:50:18	aravk	but yes, this kind of thing is pretty sweet
2020-09-29 16:04:11	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 16:39:32	mhj	Heyo felix 
2020-09-29 16:39:38	mhj	Hey all
2020-09-29 16:39:56	felix	Hello!
2020-09-29 16:40:11	kevinsan	aravk: there's nothing to prevent state being used - cgi provides any given client-certificate info. but yes, complicated interactions would be tedious :)
2020-09-29 16:40:16	kevinsan	hi mhj
2020-09-29 16:40:34	mhj	Talking to y'all from a Rock64 system that I got for $17 off Amazon
2020-09-29 16:40:54	kevinsan	Fantastic - how do you rate it?
2020-09-29 16:41:14	mhj	Pretty good, with ARMBian on it, it runs like a dream
2020-09-29 16:41:41	kevinsan	are you running a WM?
2020-09-29 16:41:48	mhj	Yeah, xfce
2020-09-29 16:41:52	kevinsan	my fav
2020-09-29 16:42:12	aravk	sway ftw
2020-09-29 16:42:26	kevinsan	does ARMBian help improve old raspis?
2020-09-29 16:42:58	mhj	Hmm, well, it runs a kind of customized Ubuntu or Debian, whichever you prefer
2020-09-29 16:43:30	mhj	I think Raspbian is better for Pis
2020-09-29 16:43:55	mhj	As far as older Pis go, I think ARMBian could be a good fit tho
2020-09-29 16:44:24	mhj	It's easier to setup
2020-09-29 16:46:48	mhj	Like I said before a while ago tho, thinking of running a self-hosted Gemini server on it :D
2020-09-29 16:47:08	kevinsan	probably the older pis are really limited by the crappy SD card implementation, so no distro would improbe things
2020-09-29 16:48:25	mhj	The thing that seperates the Rock64 and other Pine systems is that you can put an eMMC card on them if you want
2020-09-29 16:48:30	kevinsan	mhj: you've inspired me to do the same with one of the old pis i have gathering dust
2020-09-29 16:48:57	mhj	Nice <3
2020-09-29 16:49:50	mhj	Oh, and on the laptops, like the Pinebook Pro, you can install an nvme drive for even better performance
2020-09-29 16:50:03	kevinsan	i might make it IPv6 only, and offer virtual-hosting on it for anyone who wants a capsule.
2020-09-29 16:50:35	kevinsan	is that like the drives used in macbooks?
2020-09-29 16:50:36	mhj	That would be cool
2020-09-29 16:50:42	mhj	Yeah
2020-09-29 16:50:54	mhj	I think? I've never used a MacBook
2020-09-29 16:51:16	aravk	have a macbook, also think
2020-09-29 16:52:17	mhj	But I think self-hosting is the best, if you can get it to work for you how you want
2020-09-29 16:54:56	kevinsan	self-hosting gives you a lot of freedom to experiment, but it requires some administration.
2020-09-29 16:55:39	kevinsan	gemini is so simple that there's an awful lot less to audit/take care of. I can back up everything in seconds, and restoring it would be similarly simple
2020-09-29 16:55:57	kevinsan	(e.g. if I got rooted, or some inconvenience like that)
2020-09-29 16:56:32	mhj	Very true, that's one of the beautiful things about Gemini
2020-09-29 16:57:09	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 16:59:49	kevinsan	mhj: i'm thinking about going armbian on this board - were there any gotchas I should know about?
2020-09-29 17:00:09	kevinsan	oh, and what server did you use?
2020-09-29 17:05:55	mhj	I just started using ARMBian like a few minutes ago lol
2020-09-29 17:06:11	mhj	As far as what server, I am using molly brown
2020-09-29 17:06:42	mhj	I just compiled it and it runs fine so far
2020-09-29 17:07:59	mhj	I should've clarified, what I said above were future plans that I am doing RIGHT NOW lol
2020-09-29 17:08:08		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 17:14:10	tildebeast	can someone cast a beady eye over my crap guide to Molly Brown in FreeBSD?
2020-09-29 17:14:31	mhj	Sure, I run molly brown on digital ocean on FreeBSD
2020-09-29 17:14:51	tildebeast	emphasis on the 'really crap' -- not sure if i've filled in the gaps in my memory as I only wrote up some of the notes while setting up...
2020-09-29 17:14:53	tildebeast	gemini://envs.net/~tildebeast/technology/mollybrown-freebsd.gmi
2020-09-29 17:15:15	tildebeast	plus i'm a freebsd amateur :)
2020-09-29 17:15:29	mhj	Uh, lemme get bombadillo compiled on here so I can take a look lol
2020-09-29 17:15:59	tildebeast	thanks mhj! hope it doesn't look too grim in a terminal browser :)
2020-09-29 17:16:47	mhj	Np
2020-09-29 17:21:58	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 17:23:59	lukee	I've got molly brown running on an old Pi 1st gen as a test server before I went with a host. Not particularly fast, but fine for testing
2020-09-29 17:24:44	mhj	Looks good tildebeast, my only question is why are you mounting a directory in fstab when it's not a device? I thought fstab was only for partitions and devices? 
2020-09-29 17:24:46	lukee	and if you want to run a pi in the cloud, I can recommend https://www.mythic-beasts.com/
2020-09-29 17:25:40	mhj	That's the only thing that threw me off because there was no explanation for it
2020-09-29 17:36:50		griffin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 17:37:22		jcowan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 17:37:39		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 17:37:42		Sario528 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 17:37:54		jrhorn424 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 17:38:40		wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 17:38:43	tildebeast	mhj -- nullfs allows you to mount a directory elsewhere as another user -- good way to make your files editable
2020-09-29 17:38:54	tildebeast	at least that's how it seems to work on my VM :)
2020-09-29 17:39:00	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 17:40:13	tildebeast	I'll make sure there's an explanation of why in there somewhere. must have missed it
2020-09-29 17:40:29	mhj	Oh i see
2020-09-29 17:40:35	mhj	Cool :D
2020-09-29 17:40:39	tildebeast	does the job :)
2020-09-29 17:40:40	mhj	Never knew you could do that
2020-09-29 17:40:52	tildebeast	found out by accident a while ago
2020-09-29 17:41:13	tildebeast	very similar to a linux bind mount
2020-09-29 17:41:59	mhj	Huh, I've done bind mounts before when I was chrooting in NixOS, but that was the first time I ever attempted it. 
2020-09-29 17:42:47	mhj	I'll have to abuse that and jails in FreeBSD :D
2020-09-29 17:42:54	tildebeast	can't remember why I did it last time. might have been either a webroot -> user home dir, or something off a software raid
2020-09-29 17:44:28	tildebeast	ah, that's it. i was making webroot in my nginx jail accessible to a user. or something like that. worked well enough.
2020-09-29 17:45:27	tildebeast	anyway, thanks for the help!
2020-09-29 17:49:21	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 17:49:39	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 17:49:41	xfnw	anyone sucessfully install geminid? i get this error when compiling it https://ttm.sh/hpl.txt
2020-09-29 17:50:42	rb100	is geminid a server?
2020-09-29 17:52:04	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 17:52:16	xfnw	rb100: yea
2020-09-29 17:52:57	rb100	i can't keep track anymore
2020-09-29 17:54:36	▬▬▶	Sario528 has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 17:54:59	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 17:56:39		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-29 18:05:56	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 18:07:28		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-29 18:13:23	@tomasino	nice reminder that i wanted to work on my superman 4th installment
2020-09-29 18:13:28	@tomasino	aka, more content!
2020-09-29 18:20:57	kevinsan	xfnw: that looks kinda similar to someone else's issue - are you using the gnutls-openssl layer?
2020-09-29 18:21:15	xfnw	yes i think
2020-09-29 18:21:28	kevinsan	that os are you building on?
2020-09-29 18:22:33	kevinsan	s/that/what,  xfnw sorry
2020-09-29 18:22:43	xfnw	raspian
2020-09-29 18:22:59	★	kevinsan is typing, eating cake, and drinking tea
2020-09-29 18:23:04	xfnw	tea!
2020-09-29 18:24:30	kevinsan	trying to do all three while not getting a sticky keyboard :)
2020-09-29 18:24:46	kevinsan	try sudo apt-get install libssl-dev openssl
2020-09-29 18:27:01	@tomasino	mmm, cake
2020-09-29 18:27:44	xfnw	kevinsan: those were already installed
2020-09-29 18:28:12	kevinsan	xfnw: perhaps you need to uninstall gnutls-openssl (it might be shadowing libssl)
2020-09-29 18:28:29	xfnw	oh oof, im using that for other things
2020-09-29 18:28:56	kevinsan	you can put it back in (usually apt-get remove retains all the configuration)
2020-09-29 18:31:17	kevinsan	e.g. apt-get remove libgnutls-openssl27 should only remove the dev stuff for building
2020-09-29 18:32:26	kevinsan	there are ways to specify the priority during build configuration (something like pc files, but nothing i've used before), so they can interoperate if used correctly.
2020-09-29 18:32:53	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 18:35:11	xfnw	lol i guess il use jetforce instead
2020-09-29 18:39:21	kevinsan	xfnw: you might also want to check out https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gmnisrv which is another C server (it uses a configure script, unlike geminid, so might choose the SSL library properly)
2020-09-29 20:00:59	▬▬▶	tutti_ has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 20:08:59		tutti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 20:19:36	mhj	OK, kevinsan, you kinda inspired me as well. I think I'll run a Gemini hosting service off the Rock64. Should take me about a week to get everything setup properly, maybe less. 
2020-09-29 20:20:06	mhj	Also apparently ARMBian doesn't work with Pis. I guess it's just for every other ARM board.
2020-09-29 20:22:35	mhj	I've already got a name in mind for the group. The Society of Un-adjusted Non-conformists aka SUN. Primarily, I'd like to like to just have those who are interested in programming small programs that are cool, or writers who are into science fiction and weird fantasy.
2020-09-29 20:24:16	aravk	mhj: count me in
2020-09-29 20:25:08	mhj	Gotcha~ Thnx aravk 
2020-09-29 20:30:10	lukee	mhj: Is the Society for Un-adjusted Non-conformists affiliated with the Society of Irascible Contrarians?
2020-09-29 20:32:17	mhj	lol :P 
2020-09-29 20:57:19		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 21:50:21		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 21:52:39		griffin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 21:54:07	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 22:46:13	mhj	OK, getting my schoolwork finished and then I'll work more on the server :D
2020-09-29 23:36:20		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-29 23:37:31		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 23:37:49		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-29 23:37:53	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 23:37:59	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 23:38:40	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 23:44:43	▬▬▶	alex1138 has joined #gemini
2020-09-29 23:44:51	ℹ 	alex1138 is now known as alex11
2020-09-30 00:33:10	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 00:34:23		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-30 00:34:58	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 00:36:06		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-09-30 00:36:46	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 01:29:49		flexibeast has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-09-30 02:31:01		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 02:34:37	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 03:44:00		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 03:46:21	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 05:36:21		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 05:39:01	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 06:26:37		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 06:32:14	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 07:08:08		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 07:23:18	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 08:01:13		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 08:03:40	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 09:30:01		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 09:32:41	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 11:00:01	kevinsan	I read recently of someone running their own personal CAPCOM aggregator, fed from the GUS list of feeds. Who was this, and if this is you, would you make it public? :)
2020-09-30 11:22:05	idf	sup
2020-09-30 11:41:41		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 11:44:02	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 12:43:02		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 12:46:38	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 12:58:22	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 13:27:22	kevinsan	hi idf, how's your hosting service coming along?
2020-09-30 13:33:27	idf	its going quite well technically speaking, yet no new people seemed to mail me
2020-09-30 13:33:51	idf	im still pleased the server is still running for so many days
2020-09-30 13:34:23	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 13:37:49	acdw	kevinsan: I'm hoping to get something like that setup on breadpunk ... maybe next week?
2020-09-30 13:37:59	acdw	this weekend I'm afk so not then
2020-09-30 13:38:08	acdw	oh and it wasn't me who posted that but it's a great idea
2020-09-30 13:39:38		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 13:47:37	kevinsan	acdw: that's fortunate - thanks! i think Solderpunk's CAPCOM limits the number of entries it outputs, it would be better if it didn't (I mean, the whole content is less than some favicons on the web!)
2020-09-30 13:48:02	kevinsan	idf: remind me, what hardware/os did you use for your server?
2020-09-30 14:02:27	idf	kevinsan: a raspberry pi 3 B
2020-09-30 14:02:48	idf	with raspbian
2020-09-30 14:03:00	sprung	it's just debian
2020-09-30 14:03:18	idf	ye
2020-09-30 14:03:20	idf	gemini://idf.looting.uk/~pi
2020-09-30 14:05:43	sprung	nice domain
2020-09-30 14:05:46	idf	before you notice the high number of packages, i use the rpi for more than gemini hosting, and debian likes to split packages a lot
2020-09-30 14:21:12	felix	A maze of twisty little packages, all different.
2020-09-30 14:38:37	kevinsan	sprung: it's my domain - i'm offering subdomains for gemini servers for anyone who wants one
2020-09-30 14:40:03	sprung	alright
2020-09-30 14:41:55	idf	thanks kevin :)
2020-09-30 14:42:03	idf	(again)
2020-09-30 14:46:28		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 14:46:36		siina has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 14:46:42	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 14:46:50	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 14:51:55		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 14:52:28	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 14:53:04	sprung	i might start up a server soon
2020-09-30 14:54:35	sprung	especially for this particular thing
2020-09-30 15:11:16		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-30 15:12:44		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 15:12:51	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 15:13:06	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 15:28:56		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-30 15:30:26		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 15:30:31	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 15:30:48	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 15:57:37	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 15:57:51	mhj	Hoilo all
2020-09-30 15:58:09	mhj	My net connection keeps dropping out :X
2020-09-30 15:59:32	felix	O hai.
2020-09-30 16:00:58	mhj	hiyo felix, how are ya
2020-09-30 16:01:04	ehmry	when was gemini first proposed?
2020-09-30 16:01:41	felix	mhj: Eeh. Well enough I suppose. You?
2020-09-30 16:01:51	mhj	Same
2020-09-30 16:02:29	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 16:03:06	mhj	Wasn't Gemini first proposed by solderpunk in 2019?
2020-09-30 16:03:32	felix	I think so. Haven't checked.
2020-09-30 16:03:36	ehmry	looks like middle of 2019
2020-09-30 16:05:09	felix	Sounds about right.
2020-09-30 16:09:56	idf	comfy baby protocol
2020-09-30 16:13:59	mhj	As far as my own self-hosted Gemini hosting server is going, I've got the firewall in place, along with fail2ban. Now to configure sshd to do key-based auth only, look into getting a eMMC drive for the Rock64 and a domain name. After that, just gotta set up Molly Brown for multiple users, make we have plenty of text editors and everything should be good to go :)
2020-09-30 16:14:48	idf	nice
2020-09-30 16:15:11	felix	Sounds good!
2020-09-30 16:15:14	idf	i got p much all i wanted for my gemini server implemented, i got client authentication included as well locally, but i am not pushing yet
2020-09-30 16:15:37	idf	since its a bit more sensible, nim stdlib didn't work on libressl so i made a PR which isn't yet verified
2020-09-30 16:15:52	idf	if its not checked i might just push it hacky as it is now
2020-09-30 16:16:03	mhj	Cool idf, keep us informed about how everything goes!
2020-09-30 16:16:11	idf	thanks!
2020-09-30 16:16:14	idf	i will
2020-09-30 16:16:52	idf	really started as a small weekend project just serving static files, then i added so many features
2020-09-30 16:17:07	idf	luckly i refactored the code in time so its very clean now i would say
2020-09-30 16:17:53	mhj	Cool, what are your ultimate plans for it?
2020-09-30 16:19:10	idf	ultimate plans would be to get a lightweight, simple to use but featurful server for gemini
2020-09-30 16:19:33	idf	im pretty close to that i would say, since all i need to add would be the client side authentication, which i think i implemented nicely
2020-09-30 16:19:47	mhj	Do you have a name for it yet?
2020-09-30 16:19:53	idf	yes, Geminim
2020-09-30 16:20:07	idf	since its made in nim
2020-09-30 16:20:10	mhj	Sweet. I like the sound of it :D
2020-09-30 16:20:14	idf	thanks
2020-09-30 16:20:22	idf	i have a gemini capsule for it if you're interested
2020-09-30 16:20:47	mhj	I don't know much about nim atm, I wanna look more into that first
2020-09-30 16:21:18	idf	sure, it's a great language actually, i thought of writing a gemlog about it for a while
2020-09-30 16:21:21	idf	might do this weekend
2020-09-30 16:22:10	felix	I looked into it at some point, since I do a lot of Python.
2020-09-30 16:22:33	idf	syntax is similar but its definetly not python
2020-09-30 16:22:41	felix	Definitely.
2020-09-30 16:23:14	felix	Nim builds easily, is easy to configure and generates small executables.
2020-09-30 16:23:27	idf	yup
2020-09-30 16:23:32	felix	But it strikes me as a gigantic, overwhelming language.
2020-09-30 16:23:50	idf	also great garbage collection, especially now on the development branch
2020-09-30 16:25:05	idf	yeah it was kinda hard for me a bit at first too, once you get used to its differences its very natural
2020-09-30 16:25:14	idf	also nim macros are great
2020-09-30 16:25:51	felix	I don't mind differences. I recently got back into Tcl after a 20-year break.
2020-09-30 16:25:52	mhj	Oh btw, one thing about my server, it's not just gonna be Gemini, although that is the main focus. We're also gonna have programming involved, through the use of Nix. So every user can have their own compiler versions and whatnot
2020-09-30 16:26:15	felix	Nice!
2020-09-30 16:26:25	idf	sounds very interesting
2020-09-30 16:26:54	idf	keep me updated, i am interested
2020-09-30 16:27:10	mhj	I use NixOS, so I thought "Why not extend it to that server as well?"
2020-09-30 16:27:26	idf	i used nixos, and i use nix as a package manager on void
2020-09-30 16:27:29	ehmry	mhj: nixos on one of the rock boards?
2020-09-30 16:27:47	mhj	Oh nope, just Nix the package manager
2020-09-30 16:28:02	mhj	Getting NixOS on a Rock board sounds like a pain to me
2020-09-30 16:28:18	idf	i was thinking of a service like this but with freebsd jails
2020-09-30 16:28:26	ehmry	could be, I have a nixos arm laptop and it took a while to get running
2020-09-30 16:28:47	mhj	You have it on a Pinebook Pro?
2020-09-30 16:28:47	ehmry	I had to start with debian and convert it in place
2020-09-30 16:28:59	ehmry	no, mnt reform
2020-09-30 16:29:03	mhj	Ahhh
2020-09-30 16:29:37	mhj	I have a Pinebook Pro, I would like to put NixOS or Guix on it, or Void, but going with Manjaro atm
2020-09-30 16:30:19	mhj	I guess I could do a chroot install or something, but I would need to look up how to do it
2020-09-30 16:31:05	ehmry	FWIW nixos support molly-brown gemini://gemini.spam.works/~emery/nixos-hosting.gmi
2020-09-30 16:31:20	idf	welp, can't compete with that
2020-09-30 16:31:41	mhj	ooh nice
2020-09-30 16:36:11	ehmry	too bad arm can be awkward to deal with, the boot firmware thing isn't so bad but all this linux forking is awful
2020-09-30 16:43:38	idf	yeah its a shame how everything on arm is a fork
2020-09-30 16:43:56	idf	i mean everything firmware/low-level
2020-09-30 16:44:13	idf	its either closed source or not mainline mostly
2020-09-30 16:49:54	ehmry	linux is just fundamentally flawed, if people would accept that we wouldn't have all this vendor kernel crap
2020-09-30 16:52:32	ehmry	monolithic kernels suck
2020-09-30 16:55:37	idf	indeed
2020-09-30 16:56:01	idf	embrace TempleOS
2020-09-30 16:58:38	felix	:D
2020-09-30 16:59:27	idf	ngl templeos gemini server/client would be epic but i dont think the fork with networking has TLS
2020-09-30 17:00:00	idf	https://github.com/minexew/Shrine
2020-09-30 17:00:02	ehmry	how much of a libc does templeos have?
2020-09-30 17:00:08	idf	holyc
2020-09-30 17:00:31	ehmry	I shouldn't even ask
2020-09-30 17:00:42	idf	its actually nice
2020-09-30 17:00:54	idf	the OS itself uses it as a shell and as a programming language
2020-09-30 17:01:08	ehmry	yea, I'm definitely impressed by it
2020-09-30 17:04:01	idf	I am also very interested in the HaikuOS project, the kernel is hybrid and it has a very nice API for everything
2020-09-30 17:04:34	idf	Audio, GUI, OpenGL, Storage, Printing
2020-09-30 17:04:38	idf	everything
2020-09-30 17:04:56	idf	i was actually impressed how decent it is on real hardware
2020-09-30 17:05:18	dax	haiku <3
2020-09-30 17:05:35	idf	even used my wifi card(albeit with a compatible driver, not the actual wifi's driver), for which i was impressed because not many "uncommon" OSes could use my wifi card
2020-09-30 17:05:43	jns	have you looked at Oberon?
2020-09-30 17:05:49	dax	it's really nice, but the only hardware i have that it likes is a laptop, and i need to be able to lock the screen on my laptops (which haiku doesn't have)
2020-09-30 17:06:04	ehmry	I want to use haiku, but I need disk encryption
2020-09-30 17:06:08	idf	I heard of Oberon
2020-09-30 17:06:21	jns	Oberon (the language) classes are directly callable/usable from the Oberon(the OS) shell as well
2020-09-30 17:06:36	jns	so you can alias them to commands 
2020-09-30 17:06:43	idf	very interesting
2020-09-30 17:07:32	ehmry	from what I know from acme the oberon interface is pretty nice
2020-09-30 17:08:17	jns	give Bluebottle OS (aka A2) a try some day - it's a pretty extensive oberon distro with lots of nice extra stuff in it, even has an ssh client, a video player, real time raytracing demo,.. it's neat! :)
2020-09-30 17:09:38	idf	sounds really interesting, i will give it a try
2020-09-30 17:11:17	ehmry	bluebottle site is down for me :(
2020-09-30 17:12:10	ehmry	https://github.com/btreut/a2 ?
2020-09-30 17:14:25	jns	it moved
2020-09-30 17:14:31	jns	http://cas.inf.ethz.ch/projects/a2/repository
2020-09-30 17:15:26	jns	there's also an unofficial, but active-ish fork on github: https://github.com/metacore/A2OS
2020-09-30 17:16:38	jns	also, bootable iso's here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/a2oberon/files/
2020-09-30 17:17:42	jns	(but those are pretty outdated)
2020-09-30 18:15:45		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-30 19:23:06		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-09-30 19:24:22	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 19:24:35		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 19:24:44	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 19:24:57	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 19:34:13	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 19:59:29		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-09-30 20:04:35		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 20:52:36		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-09-30 21:00:21	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 21:00:42	lukee	hi kevinsan: is this the link you were looking for: gemini://carcosa.net/journal/20200929-some-computering.gmi
2020-09-30 21:01:08	lukee	about running a local copy of CAPCOM
2020-09-30 21:01:50	kevinsan	thanks lukee, that's the one!
2020-09-30 21:05:50	lukee	here I'm dealing with my cat, who after a week of wanting to sit on my laptop, mouse and mousemat decided to move away.
2020-09-30 21:06:24	lukee	hooray I thought, he leaves me in peace
2020-09-30 21:06:40	lukee	only to discover the reason - he puked over the mousemat.
2020-09-30 21:07:35	lukee	there is a metaphor in there somewhere trying to get out
2020-09-30 21:09:27	lukee	could have been worse I suppose - my thinkpad has a spill screen for light liquid spillages, but cat puke is something else
2020-09-30 21:10:12		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 21:10:16	lukee	I love him really, but sometimes he is perfectly a cat.
2020-09-30 21:16:55	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-09-30 21:18:23	kevinsan	thinkpad keyboards come out quite easily. probably ok to wash if dried properly, but not a job i'd relish :)
2020-09-30 21:21:29	lukee	well he spared me that mercy at least
2020-09-30 21:49:22	★	lukee remembers to close the lid of the laptop when he is AFK
2020-09-30 21:53:39	lukee	I'm getting "server cert is expired" on gemini home page and CAPCOM, e.g. gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/
2020-09-30 21:54:01	lukee	is anyone else having problems with it?
2020-09-30 21:56:55	kevinsan	yes, on geminaut. brb i'll try a few more...
2020-09-30 21:57:12	lukee	I just checked Kristall - same problem
2020-09-30 21:59:19	lukee	and amfora. I havent found a way to actually look at the cert, but all these complain it is expired
2020-09-30 22:01:18	lukee	lagrange reports the cert expired 14:30 today
2020-09-30 22:02:21	kevinsan	yep, gmni, kristall complain - both have a way to proceed
2020-09-30 22:02:46	kevinsan	does the gem-get (?) exe that you invoke have a way to be lenient with certificates?
2020-09-30 22:04:12	lukee	yes, but it requires to pass in a -i (for insecure) flag
2020-09-30 22:04:31	lukee	and I dont have a UI to let the user control that at the moment. I'll add this to the issues list
2020-09-30 22:04:42	lukee	in the mean time I've emailed solderpunk
2020-09-30 22:04:43	kevinsan	go on, live dangerously, just blanket -i the requests
2020-09-30 22:05:07	lukee	I thought I was doing the right thing :)
2020-09-30 22:05:29	kevinsan	i think at this stage in gemini's evolution, the convenient thing is more important
2020-09-30 22:05:38	kevinsan	i've been pondering this for a few days
2020-09-30 22:06:16	kevinsan	i think the default position should be leniency, with the option to be strict, rather than the other way around.
2020-09-30 22:07:14	lukee	how would you feel about a warning toast notification when you visited every "insecure" page?
2020-09-30 22:07:30	lukee	maybe it is too much
2020-09-30 22:07:45	kevinsan	as geminaut implements the messages, it wouldn't be intrusive.
2020-09-30 22:07:50	lukee	but you dont have to do anything, it will go away after 5 seconds
2020-09-30 22:09:45	lukee	ok I'll look into it
2020-09-30 22:10:05	lukee	I'm hoping to get a new build out soon anyway. 
2020-09-30 22:11:07	kevinsan	with tofu, i can't think of any situation where an expired certificate is cause for alarm. only a changed certificate, yet even that is of no practical concern, right now at least.
2020-09-30 22:11:08	lukee	I'm going through the convoluted process of getting a certificate so I can sign the binaries. Hopefully will prevent some of the false positives some anti-virus utils are showing
2020-09-30 22:11:49	lukee	well, gem-get doesnt do tofu yet, so neither does GemiNaut
2020-09-30 22:11:52	kevinsan	i'd be willing to bet that the false positives are due to the exe you carry as payload
2020-09-30 22:12:15	kevinsan	(as an aside, you should include or document the source-code for that)
2020-09-30 22:13:13	lukee	I think in my current build it has readmes for each, linking to the source repos
2020-09-30 22:13:42	kevinsan	oh right, it's been a while since i looked.
2020-09-30 22:14:40	kevinsan	i'd be very surprised if you couldn't find an existing class that implements a client using TLS, to save you launching an exe
2020-09-30 22:15:03	lukee	I think there are lots of possible reasons, potentially, such as 1. exe and installer not signed, 2. exe calls another exe, 3, exe within the bundle opens network connection to obscure port, 4. exe is not widely known, 5. exe is not run from "normal" location (fixed by forthcoming installer)...
2020-09-30 22:15:18	lukee	phase of the moon
2020-09-30 22:15:54	kevinsan	ironically, i don't think i've ever had a virus checker report a true positive, nor even know of this event happening.
2020-09-30 22:16:37	lukee	I'm sure you're right about being able to implement a native network layer. But TBH, why on earth can't I build on the good works of others?
2020-09-30 22:16:48	kevinsan	i think there's a higher chance of catching a neutrino with chopsticks.
2020-09-30 22:18:08	kevinsan	don't ask me - ask the shit-storm of an industry that's constantly eroding computing freedom. and winning unfortunately
2020-09-30 22:18:50	lukee	yes (it was a rhetorical question of course)
2020-09-30 22:19:25	kevinsan	my answer was similarly rhetorical (or the inverse? i can't quite fathom..)
2020-09-30 22:21:26	lukee	the frustrating thing is not only is it hard enough (comparatively speaking) to write alternative software to the mainstream apps, but then you have to go through some ritualistic, expensive and timewasting dance so the self-appointed gatekeepers can permit you to deploy an app on a mainstream platform. 
2020-09-30 22:22:05	lukee	I thought this stuff was just App store/play store behaviour, but it is effectively everywhere
2020-09-30 22:22:39	lukee	the slow erosion as you say of user control of their own machines
2020-09-30 22:26:32	lukee	Then again, I remember the time when my mother could install software on her PC. She really benefits from these security layers. So I do see why they are there. 
2020-09-30 22:27:01	rmgr	Yeah your average normal person is definitely the target unfortunately
2020-09-30 22:27:02	lukee	So we all have to do the dance to do anything on a mainstream platform
2020-09-30 22:29:42	lukee	I do still appreciate the concept of the PC - a personal computer where the (informed?) user is able to choose what software to run on the OS
2020-09-30 22:30:00	lukee	how long will it remain a mainstream idea?
2020-09-30 22:30:01	@tomasino	gimme floppies!
2020-09-30 22:30:05	kevinsan	the two needn't be mutually exclusive - you can offer comprehensive protection, and the means to circumvent them with adequate safeguards
2020-09-30 22:32:10	kevinsan	the only thing stopping me from getting root on my current phone is lack of a 'su' binary. this could have been included, but tucked away until something gets done via ADK
2020-09-30 22:32:34	lukee	but apart from the early adopters and motivated tech nerds, end users have been (rightly?) trained to be ultra suspicious of things flagged or even deleted by their security suite
2020-09-30 22:32:39	@tomasino	you can't be trusted!
2020-09-30 22:32:50	lukee	this is true :)
2020-09-30 22:33:44	lukee	At least with open source you can try to show what it is you are building. But normal users just want to press install and be done
2020-09-30 22:37:01	lukee	I can only see two solutions: 1: suck it up, 2: depart the mainstream platforms or deployment mechanisms
2020-09-30 22:37:50	lukee	and of course 3: moan about it to anyone who'll listen
2020-09-30 22:38:22	kevinsan	there's no real choice but to depart the mainstream platforms. Ports 80/443 are polluted beyond redemption. there's stuff there, but it's too sparse to make hunting effective, particularly since our tools for discovery are now part of the problem
2020-09-30 22:39:35	lukee	that's fine for the likes of us here in this channel, but it cordones us off from wider society who are the ones to benefit from things like Gemini
2020-09-30 22:41:41	kevinsan	that's always been the case. i'd argue that it's easier today for people to get connected in alternative ways than it was, say 20 years ago, 
2020-09-30 22:42:50	kevinsan	connected *at all* was the alternative thing to do. a whole lot of people didn't care to do that, and that was fine.
2020-09-30 22:44:28	lukee	in some ways yes, in some ways no. Certainly agree that the options are wider, but distributing an application on a mainstream platform for normal users is much harder now
2020-09-30 22:44:53	lukee	I guess thats another reason why the web and the app stores have taken over
2020-09-30 22:45:27	lukee	for the web, you just press OK to Chrome, and the app stores, the software magically appears, ads and all
2020-09-30 22:46:50	alex11	are there any combined gopher/gemini clients?
2020-09-30 22:47:02	kevinsan	Kristall does both, for one - 
2020-09-30 22:47:14	kevinsan	did you want console or GUI?
2020-09-30 22:47:19	lukee	what platform?
2020-09-30 22:47:20	alex11	either/or
2020-09-30 22:47:22	alex11	linux
2020-09-30 22:47:45	lukee	bombadillo does both I think (vi like keybindings)
2020-09-30 22:48:14	lukee	Castor (graphical) does both
2020-09-30 22:48:56	dctrud	elpher if you are of an emacs persuasion
2020-09-30 22:55:53	kevinsan	dctrud: when are your next dj sessions on tilde?
2020-09-30 23:05:48		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-09-30 23:08:38	mhj	Re: Mainstream approval? Just make an ad-infested browser add-on with crypto-mining implanted in the code somewhere. 100% Play Store and AppStore approved! </s>
2020-09-30 23:13:45	xj9	my plan is to have people install a parasitic operating system which can act as a middleware for creating and running grid applications
2020-09-30 23:13:53	xj9	based off of inferno
2020-09-30 23:13:59	xj9	so i guess i'm doing 2?
2020-09-30 23:14:32	xj9	a parasite disguised as a productivity application
2020-09-30 23:15:18	xj9	the parasite can get signed and all that jazz so it can protect its own programs from the hostile envrionment of corpo operating systems
2020-09-30 23:26:14	acdw	hallo
2020-09-30 23:49:42	rmgr	Guten morgen
2020-09-30 23:51:35	acdw	morgan, gluten
2020-09-30 23:51:46	acdw	wait
2020-09-30 23:53:37	acdw	:P
2020-09-30 23:53:40	acdw	how goes it
2020-10-01 00:02:39	rmgr	Can't complain.. Playing with BorgBackup and Backblaze for a diy NAS backup
2020-10-01 00:06:32	dctrud	rmgr: snap - borg + rclone->b2 setup is my evening task
2020-10-01 00:07:09	dctrud	kevinsan: I don't really schedule streaming on tilderadio, I just go on there on weekends when there's a lull at home
2020-10-01 00:07:50	dctrud	kevinsan: most weekends I stream something at some poin on Saturday late morning / early evening US central time. That's as specific as it gets though I'm afraid.
2020-10-01 00:09:49	rmgr	I mean to be honest I'm actually at work but I keep going back to my SSH connection on my phone to see how the uploads going 
2020-10-01 00:11:23	dctrud	heh - I have about 1.5TB and 20Mbps up on this cable... and I can't upload during the day when it's school and work video calls time non-stop
2020-10-01 00:30:29	acdw	rmgr: awesome, borg :) I *had* it for a min, then deleted everything on my harddrive :(
2020-10-01 00:30:38	acdw	eventually I'm gonig to get an rsync.net account
2020-10-01 00:31:05	acdw	dctrud: how does tilderadio streaming work? how do i sign up?
2020-10-01 00:32:56	dctrud	acdw: message / mail ben or deepend to ask, and see: https://tilderadio.org/djinfo.html
2020-10-01 00:33:06	acdw	awesome thansk:)
2020-10-01 00:33:21	dctrud	there are lots of people with scheduled shows, but others like me with an account who jump on when it's free and we fancy it
2020-10-01 00:33:46	dctrud	I'm streaming using butt, from analog (vinyl) input, and the instructions on the link work great
2020-10-01 00:34:35	acdw	butt?!!!?! lol
2020-10-01 00:34:53	dctrud	Broadcast Using This Tool - butt
2020-10-01 00:35:07	acdw	OH M G that is funny'
2020-10-01 00:35:08	dctrud	https://sourceforge.net/projects/butt/
2020-10-01 00:35:27	acdw	that's awesme
2020-10-01 00:35:38	acdw	i want to get more into ~sound~
2020-10-01 00:35:51	acdw	there's this great DJ on the local college station and her speaking style is grate
2020-10-01 00:35:58	acdw	makes me want to do some radio type stuff
2020-10-01 00:36:00	acdw	maybe a gemcast
2020-10-01 01:02:56	rmgr	I keep seeing the term gemcast around, is that a podcast served over gemini? 
2020-10-01 01:05:10	acdw	yes
2020-10-01 01:05:13	acdw	ben has one
2020-10-01 01:05:19	acdw	well...a ben anyway
2020-10-01 01:05:44	acdw	gemini://kwiecien.us/gemcast/index.gmi
2020-10-01 01:08:01	▬▬▶	weeb has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 02:01:25	▬▬▶	reductum has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 02:45:06		reductum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-01 03:33:48		tejr has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-01 03:34:37	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 03:34:47		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-01 03:40:57		jns has quit (quit: Poof!)
2020-10-01 03:41:05	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 05:34:33		jns has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-01 05:45:57	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 07:16:48	rmgr	Anybody else getting cert errors on capcom? 
2020-10-01 07:35:12	admicos	cert expired here too
2020-10-01 09:26:48		Gemino has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-01 09:27:00	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 09:30:39		tejr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-01 09:31:15	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 09:38:51		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-01 09:40:12	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 12:13:04	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 12:24:13		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-01 12:25:32	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 12:33:22	sprung	ey yo
2020-10-01 12:33:37	idf	sup
2020-10-01 12:33:44	Cadey	morning
2020-10-01 12:33:58	sprung	any guide on how to set up a gemini server?
2020-10-01 12:34:56	sprung	which ditro should i choose?
2020-10-01 12:35:10	sprung	*distro
2020-10-01 12:40:17	idf	i dont think a distro really matters, gemini servers are quite simple from what i noticed
2020-10-01 12:40:20	idf	anything with tls should work
2020-10-01 12:42:46	sprung	brb
2020-10-01 13:37:17	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 13:40:15	dctrud	hey all. Any idea who runs the vulpes.one proxy if that's public info? Had someone email me at SDF thanking me for it... they thought I'd done it but I've just linked through it on mastodon etc. Wanted to pass on their thanks to the rightful owner.
2020-10-01 13:46:15	felix	Nope, sorry.
2020-10-01 14:03:08	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 14:15:51	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 14:53:36		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-01 14:54:03		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-01 15:54:15	xj9	fuerfuchs? i believe they are on the feddy
2020-10-01 17:50:05		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-01 18:29:26	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 18:43:16	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 19:18:07	dctrud	thansk xj9 
2020-10-01 19:53:50		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-01 19:54:18		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-01 19:55:10	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 20:10:02	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 20:21:25	mhj	sprung: Still need help setting up a server? I'm only familier with JetForce and Molly Brown. I believe the hardest thing is just getting TLS/SSL going if you're not familier with it.
2020-10-01 20:22:01	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 20:22:16	@tomasino	At 2200UTC, tilderadio and sci-fi radio present Robert A Heinlein's "Universe", the first novella from Orphans of the Sky, performed as a 30 minute radio drama. Come join us for live commentary in #tilderadio.
2020-10-01 20:26:45	mhj	Whaaat? A RADIO DRAMA?! I thought people stopped doing those in the 50's. How quaint and cute. Just kidding, this sounds awesome!
2020-10-01 20:27:28	@tomasino	it's from the 50's!
2020-10-01 20:27:29	@tomasino	:D
2020-10-01 20:27:49	@tomasino	my show, Sci-Fi Radio airs on tuesdays and thursdays at 2200UTC and i just replay old 50s scifi radio dramas
2020-10-01 20:28:01	@tomasino	right now we're playing through all of X Minus One
2020-10-01 20:29:34	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 20:30:27	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 20:30:46	mhj	Ooh cool :D
2020-10-01 20:34:03		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-01 21:12:59	lukee_	mhj: radio dramas - you can hear them every day on BBC radio 4
2020-10-01 21:13:52	lukee_	also in BBC sounds, but not sure how much of that is accessible outside the UK
2020-10-01 21:20:13		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-01 21:20:45	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 21:21:17	makeworld	Apparently I've been disconnected for days, that's annoying :/
2020-10-01 21:21:34	makeworld	I gotta up the reconnection attempts
2020-10-01 21:21:55	makeworld	Anyway, it looks like the gemini.circumlunar.space cert is expired?!
2020-10-01 21:22:05	makeworld	The one on Gemini I mean
2020-10-01 21:22:22	paper	it seems like it
2020-10-01 21:22:46	paper	is solderpunk around? I haven't seen him lately
2020-10-01 21:24:42	@tomasino	doesn't come in much
2020-10-01 21:25:07	@tomasino	especially with his digital minimization going on
2020-10-01 21:25:18	paper	I mean on the ML and active on his git projects
2020-10-01 21:25:31	makeworld	Yikes, I hope the cert gets fixed soon
2020-10-01 21:26:36	paper	how does it work? if you create a new cert, what do you have to do for clients to continue trusting it
2020-10-01 21:27:30	jcowan	Normally a client cert is created and sent by the server.  The client can trust where it comes from because it has already checked the server cert.
2020-10-01 21:29:01	makeworld	jcowan I think you are misunderstanding
2020-10-01 21:29:47	makeworld	paper: Ideally clients display a warning if the cert changes before the old one has expired, or if the old one did, then they will accept and remember the new one without interruption
2020-10-01 21:30:11	makeworld	See gemini://makeworld.gq/gemlog/2020-07-03-tofu-rec.gmi
2020-10-01 21:30:25	paper	thanks, I will look
2020-10-01 21:30:35	makeworld	Been meaning to send Drew that, since he came up with his own TOFU recomendations that he posted to the ML and stuff
2020-10-01 21:49:11	paper	makeworld: great article
2020-10-01 21:49:20	makeworld	Thanks! :)
2020-10-01 21:49:28	makeworld	Writing an email to Drew now
2020-10-01 21:59:50	▬▬▶	acdw6 has joined #gemini
2020-10-01 22:13:33	makeworld	Lagrange is such a nice client wow
2020-10-01 22:13:41	makeworld	https://git.skyjake.fi/skyjake/lagrange
2020-10-01 22:13:44	@tomasino	it's very pretty
2020-10-01 22:14:07	makeworld	Yeah, and just using SDL
2020-10-01 22:14:14	makeworld	I don't have a good conception but that seems impressive
2020-10-01 22:14:36	makeworld	Plus it does FTS and history really well, I love the dropdown in the address bar
2020-10-01 22:15:58	acdw6	welp I can't see it at work, will have to check it out at home
2020-10-01 22:16:08	makeworld	Too bad
2020-10-01 22:16:21	acdw6	yea
2020-10-01 22:16:24	acdw6	work sucks
2020-10-01 22:16:26	acdw6	(I know)
2020-10-01 22:16:41	acdw6	anyway I started Paint-Tober on Gemini
2020-10-01 22:16:47	acdw6	if you want to join!
2020-10-01 22:17:03	acdw6	gemini://gemlog.blue:1965/users/acdw/1601586609.gmi
2020-10-01 22:27:19	makeworld	Ahaha nice
2020-10-01 22:29:51	acdw6	:D
2020-10-01 22:34:06	lukee_	mspaint: so bad, its good
2020-10-01 22:34:15	lukee_	like ascii art!
2020-10-01 22:34:28	acdw6	YES
2020-10-01 22:34:33	acdw6	that's it 1000%
2020-10-01 22:34:48	acdw6	honestly, the new versions of MS Paint, after XP, are garbage
2020-10-01 22:35:06	acdw6	now that I think about it, I wonder if I could get a cracked MSPaint from that leaked XP source code ....
2020-10-01 22:35:12	lukee_	yeah, but its "modern" now
2020-10-01 22:35:54	acdw6	bleh
2020-10-01 22:36:05	lukee_	no need to compile old MSPaint from leaked sources
2020-10-01 22:36:10	lukee_	just use this
2020-10-01 22:36:11	lukee_	https://jspaint.app/#local:cc41ba27a70cc8
2020-10-01 22:36:38	lukee_	MS Paint (classic), in the browser, in javascript of course
2020-10-01 22:36:56	acdw6	:D
2020-10-01 22:36:59	acdw6	awww yiss
2020-10-01 22:37:07	acdw6	oh that PENCIL
2020-10-01 22:37:24	lukee_	and the magnifying glass, with a little glint on it
2020-10-01 22:37:28	★	acdw6 runs off to Box-Look.org (remember that old chestnut?) to find xcursors that look like mspaint
2020-10-01 22:38:56	acdw6	whoa whoa whoa JS paint saves as PNG? Nah I need that BMP
2020-10-01 22:38:59	acdw6	:P
2020-10-01 22:39:26	lukee_	you could always just do a screenshot and paste into...
2020-10-01 22:39:30	lukee_	MS Paint
2020-10-01 22:39:48	acdw6	:O
2020-10-01 22:39:50	acdw6	D:
2020-10-01 22:40:33	lukee_	I remember fondly when UIs were quiet and muted grey to get out of your way. Its almost as it they realised they werent the centre of the universe
2020-10-01 22:40:42	lukee_	as it -> as if
2020-10-01 22:41:34	lukee_	now everything is ultra branded, custom look and feel, promoting brand awareness
2020-10-01 22:42:04	lukee_	#BringBackWindows2000UI
2020-10-01 22:42:35	acdw6	yes plez
2020-10-01 22:42:44	acdw6	I love those looks on r/usabilityporn for that
2020-10-01 22:44:37	lukee_	Usability, Schmusability
2020-10-01 22:46:22	lukee_	But sadly execs love a bit of bling, so usability got replaced by DesignFadOfTheYear on each iteration
2020-10-01 22:46:38	★	lukee_ is not bitter and twisted about this
2020-10-01 22:46:43	acdw6	lololol
2020-10-01 22:46:46	acdw6	me neither
2020-10-01 22:46:49	acdw6	;)
2020-10-01 22:47:09	acdw6	I mean we *are* on IRC, we are two *cool* people
2020-10-01 22:47:38	lukee_	looking for the hole in the dyke to stick our finger into
2020-10-01 22:47:52	lukee_	(that sounds very unfortunate on second reading)
2020-10-01 22:47:57	acdw6	lolol
2020-10-01 22:51:58	kevinsan	Speaking of ASCII art, I just finished posting this gemini://gemini.susa.net/raquel_meyers_pixel_art.gmi
2020-10-01 22:54:44	lukee_	amazing. That is proper ASCII art
2020-10-01 22:54:50	acdw6	oh that's awesome
2020-10-01 22:55:17	lukee_	couldnt have a better sound track
2020-10-01 22:56:02	acdw6	awesome, something to listen to @ home
2020-10-01 22:56:06	acdw6	o/
2020-10-01 22:56:09		acdw6 has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-01 23:00:24	kevinsan	i know, i love that stuff like that gets made - pretty much just for the art.
2020-10-01 23:08:11	kevinsan	makeworld: my paint-tober 2020 entry is complete. after weeks of tireless effort, I present to you https://gemini.susa.net:1993/img/SupremePwner.png
2020-10-01 23:08:39	makeworld	Truly inspiring
2020-10-01 23:08:51	kevinsan	i'll take my prize now :)
2020-10-01 23:08:54	lukee_	kevinsan: I implemented the option GemiNaut we discussed the other day - if a site has a problem with its cert, show a toast warning, but connect anyway
2020-10-01 23:09:44	lukee_	that is truly grotesque - I like it
2020-10-01 23:09:58	kevinsan	yay lukee_, i think it's a good change!
2020-10-01 23:10:51	kevinsan	i'd like to say it was what showed up out of random scribblings and a fill, but in reality I agonized over each and every picture.
2020-10-01 23:11:27	lukee_	the fluidity of your line is unsurpassed
2020-10-01 23:11:29	kevinsan	s/picture/pixel./
2020-10-01 23:12:10	kevinsan	it's all down to the tools
2020-10-01 23:12:33	kevinsan	in this case, a slightly sluggish track-point.
2020-10-01 23:12:49	kevinsan	or 'nipple' if you were to be so bold
2020-10-01 23:14:21	lukee_	Not to be left out, my contribution is: "Mondrian's migraine" https://i.imgur.com/NIJM3kr.png
2020-10-01 23:15:05	kevinsan	pah. that's actually quite visual appealing
2020-10-01 23:15:09	kevinsan	loser!
2020-10-01 23:15:27	lukee_	the migraine will come after a while
2020-10-01 23:16:11	kevinsan	please no! i hate migraines.
2020-10-01 23:19:08	kevinsan	Modrian's style could be used for a kind of steganography. must ponder that - it would be easy to encode numbers in the geometry
2020-10-01 23:22:51	lukee_	hmm yes
2020-10-01 23:25:10	lukee_	lots of modern/geometric art sort of permits that. Like Gravatar auto-user icons
2020-10-01 23:27:34	lukee_	identicons. Auto-icons are something else https://www.london-walking-tours.co.uk/secret-london/jeremy-bentham-auto-icon.htm
2020-10-01 23:41:10		lukee_ has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-01 23:41:39	kevinsan	gruesome. i may not sleep tonight
2020-10-01 23:41:43	kevinsan	:)
2020-10-01 23:50:34	acdw	oh dannnngg kevinsan, that's dope
2020-10-01 23:50:59	acdw	lukee aint here no more but that's good too
2020-10-01 23:57:43	kevinsan	i know acdw, creative beyond belief. not seen anything quite like it
2020-10-01 23:59:14	kevinsan	also, if you follow the link at the bottom of the page, you'll find a guy who does sorta chiptune stuff. his main instrument seems to be the gameboy advance :)
2020-10-02 00:15:53	acdw	oh awesome
2020-10-02 00:17:16	acdw	wait, kevinsan: bottom of what page?
2020-10-02 00:18:03	kevinsan	gemini://gemini.susa.net/raquel_meyers_pixel_art.gmi
2020-10-02 00:31:54	acdw	Oh right!
2020-10-02 00:35:51	weeb	is gemini.circumlunar.space down or is my browser stupid?
2020-10-02 00:36:02	weeb	says the cert is not trusted anymore
2020-10-02 00:38:33	kevinsan	weeb: the certificate expired. the client is being a bit strict about this
2020-10-02 00:39:11		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-02 00:39:26	kevinsan	you can get capcom from here for now, if you have an http browser :)  https://gemini.susa.net:1993/cgi-bin/proxy.sh?url=gemini%3A%2F%2Fgemini%2Ecircumlunar%2Espace%2Fcapcom%2F
2020-10-02 01:20:35	acdw	i'm just now able to listen to the chiptune stuff, kevinsan 
2020-10-02 01:21:23	acdw	oh yes this is BANGIN
2020-10-02 01:44:09		rmgr has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-10-02 01:55:56	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 02:54:49	makeworld	kevinsan: Wow nice proxy
2020-10-02 02:55:06	makeworld	Source code up somewhere? In any case you should send it to the mailing list
2020-10-02 03:23:19		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-02 03:30:33	sprung	ay
2020-10-02 04:24:08		dax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-02 04:31:32	sprung	any guide on how to set up a gemini server?
2020-10-02 04:31:52	sprung	jetforce keeps failing on me
2020-10-02 06:01:47	▬▬▶	dax has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 06:52:24	rmgr	sprung: What's happening? 
2020-10-02 09:05:38	kevinsan	makeworld: the proxy code is here https://gitlab.com/ksangeelee/gemini
2020-10-02 09:06:13	kevinsan	starts from ./http/htdocs/cgi-bin/proxy.sh
2020-10-02 09:07:15	kevinsan	it's tailored for my use, but it should be easy enough to customised.
2020-10-02 09:08:35	kevinsan	sprung: each server has its own instructions (and capabilities). if you say what OS you're building on, then specific people might be able to offer help.
2020-10-02 09:09:56	kevinsan	i'm using Gemserv on Debian, it was easy to bootstrap Rust and build using Cargo, and is quite a light and nice featured server.
2020-10-02 09:11:25	▬▬▶	webchatter has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 09:15:23	kevinsan	if you have a C compiler, then gmnisrv is even easier to build and run (though it's one of the newest, and does not have cgi support yet)
2020-10-02 09:28:05	aravk	tbh idk if Drew will implement cgi support in gmnisrv
2020-10-02 09:39:28	kevinsan	aravk: why do you say that?
2020-10-02 09:40:22	kevinsan	i ask because I was looking at adding it myself, but i'd want any code to be merged to avoid forking
2020-10-02 09:40:35	aravk	kevinsan: you should ask him before adding code
2020-10-02 09:40:39	aravk	he has lots of very strong opinions
2020-10-02 09:40:46	aravk	will NACK anything that he doesn't agree with
2020-10-02 09:40:56	aravk	I've looked at gmnisrv, it's a pretty small codebase
2020-10-02 09:41:18	aravk	I don't see him adding something lke CGI support (which is quite a bit of work or requires big dependencies)
2020-10-02 09:41:39	kevinsan	lol, i figured that out - but i also resepect his opinion, so it would be interesting to hear objections, if there are any
2020-10-02 09:42:18	kevinsan	aravk: basic CGI support doesn't need much (if anything) that isn't part of the standard library
2020-10-02 09:42:57	aravk	what standard library
2020-10-02 09:43:34	kevinsan	C - e.g. system() call
2020-10-02 09:43:45	aravk	some of his objections are just 'this feature is not for my project, if you want it use something else'
2020-10-02 09:44:16	aravk	(re: cgi) oh cool, if it's that easy to implement he may just do it
2020-10-02 09:46:57	aravk	I've contributed to aerc, sourcehut, and gmni, so I think I have a good idea of his maintainer style
2020-10-02 09:54:57	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 10:41:18	sprung	uh alright
2020-10-02 10:58:19	sprung	i'm compiling gemserv
2020-10-02 11:08:47	sprung	hey i have a new update
2020-10-02 11:09:14	sprung	cargo refused to build gemserv
2020-10-02 11:10:28	sprung	on debian 10
2020-10-02 11:11:00	sprung	i may try gmnisrv
2020-10-02 11:16:19	sprung	oh well it failed, guess i should do a reinstall, the server itself is messed up already
2020-10-02 11:29:52	sprung	anyone have a proper guide or configuration for a Gemini server, on Debian 10 or anything?
2020-10-02 11:48:07	CommunistWolf	I'm just running mine, compiled from source,  in tmux - like a savage
2020-10-02 12:04:57	kevinsan	sprung: just so you know, i had to bootstrap Rust from the official site, rather than use the Debian packages.
2020-10-02 12:05:17	kevinsan	it was really easy though - they have a script or something, I forget the details
2020-10-02 12:10:02	kevinsan	This is it, from my bash_history: curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://sh.rustup.rs | sh
2020-10-02 12:11:33	kevinsan	source $HOME/.cargo/env; cd gemserv; cargo build --release
2020-10-02 13:29:11	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 14:05:14	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 14:30:27	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 14:39:24		webchatter has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-02 15:56:39		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-02 17:32:31	jcowan	Are there line-length limits in the text/gemini format (as opposed to the Gemini protocol)?  I can't find any mention of them in the documentation: do they exist de facto?
2020-10-02 17:36:44	felix	Since lines are supposed to wrap regardless of length, I doubt it.
2020-10-02 17:37:23	ericonr	your readers definitely won't thank you for a barrage of text, tho :p
2020-10-02 17:38:43	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 17:51:07	jcowan	Right, I was just thinking that one text/gemini line per paragraph gives the effect of flowed text.
2020-10-02 17:54:48	felix	Exactly!
2020-10-02 17:55:09	jcowan	e.g. this email I just received has a graf with 430 characters, flowed into 7 lines of which the longest is 70 characters.
2020-10-02 17:57:30	felix	70 is too short to reflow except on mpbile devices though,
2020-10-02 17:58:53	rb100	my terminal right now is 80 wide, 70 seems right
2020-10-02 18:00:45		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-02 18:26:48		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-02 18:36:30	Cadey	jcowan: lines should not be longer than memory is large
2020-10-02 18:40:33	jcowan	okay, I can live with that
2020-10-02 18:45:15	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 18:49:09	▬▬▶	Dr-WaSabi has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 19:51:31	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 20:20:49		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-10-02 20:22:00	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 20:53:45	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 21:27:34	CoopDot	I was looking at domains for a webring inspired thing for capsules. orbit.space seems to be vacant but looking at the price makes it out of the question
2020-10-02 21:28:02	@tomasino	.space are tough
2020-10-02 21:28:15	@tomasino	i was gonna do one of those before i ended up with cosmic.voyage
2020-10-02 21:31:52	CoopDot	there are .space domain names that are a 100 times cheaper than orbit.space
2020-10-02 21:32:24	@tomasino	:(
2020-10-02 21:36:40	CoopDot	this doesn't kill my project, I should build it and host it on a sub-domain to one of my short domains
2020-10-02 21:38:02	@tomasino	will your project do orbiting?
2020-10-02 21:45:35		siina has quit (quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-10-02 21:45:44	CoopDot	orbit is a play on words. "web ring" -> -"web site" +"gemini capsule" -> "circling around in space" -> "orbit"
2020-10-02 21:46:01		exprez135 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-02 21:46:16	@tomasino	ahha
2020-10-02 21:47:43	▬▬▶	siina has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 21:47:55	▬▬▶	exprez135 has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 21:55:29		jucelo has quit (Changing host)
2020-10-02 21:55:29	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 21:56:03		jucelo has quit (Changing host)
2020-10-02 21:56:03	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-10-02 22:29:45	weeb	why doesnt gemini have inline links?
2020-10-02 22:29:49	weeb	pls no hate, im just asking
2020-10-02 22:29:57	weeb	seems like a must-have for a network
2020-10-02 22:34:28	@tomasino	it was a conscious design choice to limit the parsing logic and simplify document creation
2020-10-02 22:34:38	@tomasino	and it only affects gemtext (text/gemini)
2020-10-02 22:34:47	@tomasino	you can serve other content types, like markdown, if you prefer
2020-10-02 22:55:19	xj9	line-oriented parsing is really nice
2020-10-02 22:55:31	xj9	imo anyway
2020-10-02 23:00:37		baschdel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-02 23:13:02	zephryn	i'm split on it, i think inline links are nice for formatting but definitely a bit more complicated to parse
2020-10-02 23:16:35	@tomasino	i've been doing it so long on gopher i don't really give it much thought
2020-10-02 23:50:06	admicos	so i just made a gemtext to html converter in shell+sed, might be useful to someone here: https://git.ebc.li/admicos/blog/src/branch/main/cmd/gemtext-html
2020-10-02 23:55:03	Dr-WaSabi	is it just me, or do others get cert errors when trying to use bombadillo and go to the gemini project page?
2020-10-02 23:55:28	@tomasino	yeah, circumlunar's gemini page is expired
2020-10-02 23:55:39	@tomasino	i pinged solderpunk about it on fedi, but he's only coming online like once a week these days
2020-10-02 23:55:52	★	Dr-WaSabi is bummed
2020-10-03 00:49:19	Dr-WaSabi	anyone else use bombadillo?
2020-10-03 00:50:03	@tomasino	on occasion
2020-10-03 00:50:17	Dr-WaSabi	or more to the point, the bookmark add function?
2020-10-03 00:50:36	Dr-WaSabi	in bombadillo
2020-10-03 00:51:24	@tomasino	nope
2020-10-03 00:51:52	Dr-WaSabi	ok
2020-10-03 00:52:05	Dr-WaSabi	guess I'll open an issue
2020-10-03 01:01:05	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 01:19:33		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-03 01:21:10	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 02:32:50	sprung	finally i got gemserv to work on
2020-10-03 02:36:26		zephryn has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-03 02:49:10	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 02:58:32	Dr-WaSabi	cool
2020-10-03 02:59:35		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-03 03:00:39	rb100	which one is gemserv?
2020-10-03 03:10:11	Dr-WaSabi	not sure, but for some reason I have rust in my head.  So maybe it's one written in rust.  I have hard enough time just getting a working client, so haven't played around with trying to get a server to run yet
2020-10-03 03:12:25	Dr-WaSabi	https://git.sr.ht/~int80h/gemserv
2020-10-03 03:12:41	Dr-WaSabi	I think thats the offical repo
2020-10-03 03:31:56	rb100	ah, ok
2020-10-03 04:17:54		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-03 06:18:54	ℹ 	paper is now known as apaper
2020-10-03 07:07:33		zephryn has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-10-03 07:07:50	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 07:09:58		zephryn has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-10-03 07:10:05	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 12:49:24	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 13:34:17	mhj	Heyo all~
2020-10-03 13:35:49	aravk	hello
2020-10-03 13:35:51	aravk	how's stuff
2020-10-03 13:36:56	mhj	Just a quick question about self-hosting. Since my pubnix Gemini server will be hosted from my apartment, using a Comcast line, should I something like dyndns or no-ip to get everything pointed to it correctly?
2020-10-03 13:37:51	mhj	It's good aravk! How about yourself?
2020-10-03 13:40:32	felix	I just finished a thing, and had a nice outing at the park today, too.
2020-10-03 13:41:12	mhj	Nice felix!
2020-10-03 13:42:01	aravk	pretty good mhj
2020-10-03 13:43:05	mhj	That's good aravk, been up to anything lately?
2020-10-03 13:44:55	felix	Game ports here.
2020-10-03 13:46:30	mhj	What sort of game ports?
2020-10-03 13:48:35	felix	Well, for now a crappy old roguelike demo, from JS to the Linux console.
2020-10-03 13:49:42	mhj	Ooh, never heard of a port of anything JS to console...
2020-10-03 13:50:03	aravk	mhj: was working on some asynchronous event loop concepts, but taking a break and starting over because it got too messy
2020-10-03 13:50:15	felix	No? I'd have guessed people do it all the time, what with Node being so popular.
2020-10-03 13:50:36	felix	And that sounds advanced!
2020-10-03 13:51:41	aravk	that sounds pretty cool felix
2020-10-03 13:51:56	felix	Thank you!
2020-10-03 13:59:22	mhj	Yesterday, since GOG was having a sale, I bought several PC games. Deus Ex original, Deus Ex Human Revolution, System Shock Enhanced, Life is Strange Complete, Primordia and the Witcher 3. Before that, a few days ago, when they were having another sale, I bought the classic X-Com series in full.
2020-10-03 14:00:39	mhj	So I think I'll be gaming for a while lol
2020-10-03 14:02:13	aravk	have fun!
2020-10-03 14:04:34	mhj	Thanks aravk! But before I do any gaming I want to setup the Gemini server we talked about and get you an account :)
2020-10-03 14:04:50	aravk	ooh, yeah
2020-10-03 14:05:52	aravk	my goal now is to establish a presence on as many servers as possible and then run a single tmux session on my own server that accesses everything
2020-10-03 14:07:02	mhj	Cool! Right now I use a Raspberry Pi 3 running tmux to access everything remotely.
2020-10-03 14:07:23	mhj	So then, I can login onto Rpi 3 from any computer in the apartment
2020-10-03 14:10:46	mhj	I wish I understood Plan9, because I love the concept as far as making remote things local 
2020-10-03 14:11:41	mhj	Well, making them appear as if they're local and making everything transparent
2020-10-03 14:12:42	mhj	I'm jusy do used to the Unix way of doing things lol
2020-10-03 14:13:19	mhj	*just so used
2020-10-03 14:38:23	aravk	I've not used Plan9 yet
2020-10-03 14:38:54	aravk	my only confusion is how they deal with times when it's not acting so transparent
2020-10-03 14:39:28	aravk	I guess I'll find out
2020-10-03 14:39:37	aravk	hey, I have a rpi running everything too!
2020-10-03 14:39:42	aravk	though moving soon so it's offline atm
2020-10-03 14:40:05	aravk	I need to revamp it anyways - running ArchLinuxARM, and it requires some big updates
2020-10-03 14:44:15	login	is there a way for you to acquire a yubikey?
2020-10-03 15:05:21	aravk	not atm, why?
2020-10-03 15:05:26	aravk	login: ^
2020-10-03 15:17:14	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 15:17:47		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-03 15:26:51	login	aravk: it might be a worthwhile investment in "security virtue-signalling"
2020-10-03 15:28:22	aravk	hm
2020-10-03 15:28:30	aravk	eh
2020-10-03 15:44:05		jrhorn424 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-03 15:44:08		jcowan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-03 15:44:10	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 15:45:56	▬▬▶	jrhorn424 has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 16:26:26	▬▬▶	martijn has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 16:40:31	login	aravk: well, a yubikey is good to store your gpg keys too
2020-10-03 16:40:53	aravk	true, I have them all on my laptop rn, and I do want them on their own hardware
2020-10-03 16:41:07	aravk	also login, have you heard of nitrokey?
2020-10-03 16:41:13	aravk	it's the same concept, different company
2020-10-03 16:41:33	login	i have, but i think it isn't that secure
2020-10-03 16:41:50	aravk	really?
2020-10-03 16:41:53	login	i would choose either yubikey, or solokey (because the latter's input mechanism is also on the key)
2020-10-03 16:42:12	aravk	alright, I'll check both out
2020-10-03 16:42:38	login	well, the best way to check would be the https://fidoalliance.org/certification/authenticator-certification-levels/
2020-10-03 16:49:42	login	You need to buy a Level 3+ product
2020-10-03 16:49:47	login	yubikey is only level 1
2020-10-03 16:50:07	login	chinese company feitian (who also makes Google's Titan Key on contract) has some Level 2 products
2020-10-03 16:52:37	aravk	do level 3+ products even exist
2020-10-03 16:52:39	aravk	btw https://www.nitrokey.com/#comparison
2020-10-03 16:52:56	aravk	they've got nice pdfs detailing features at the bottom
2020-10-03 16:53:05	★	tomasino powers up for 6 episodes to get to level 3+
2020-10-03 16:53:18	★	felix laughs!
2020-10-03 16:58:20	aravk	all I want to do is store my 20 gpg keys (counting subkeys) on a secure smartcard-like usb device, is that too much to ask
2020-10-03 16:58:37	aravk	really 7, but I am confident it will increase in number
2020-10-03 17:01:05	login	do you want cryptographic operations to take place on the smartcard too?
2020-10-03 17:01:18	login	do you want the keys to be extractable once put into the key>
2020-10-03 17:01:23	login	or only repleaceable?
2020-10-03 17:01:46	login	and even then, replaceable via "reset" or only via password?
2020-10-03 17:03:14	aravk	hm
2020-10-03 17:03:20	aravk	extractable
2020-10-03 17:03:37	aravk	I will need to rotate keys as they expire, but I don't want to lose them
2020-10-03 17:04:01	aravk	cryptographic operations on the smartcard would be cool, but I don't know if it's possible
2020-10-03 17:04:15	aravk	I guess the system would stream the content to the device which would stream back the encrypted content
2020-10-03 17:04:18	aravk	sounds very cool
2020-10-03 17:04:22	aravk	if it exists, yes that would be awesome
2020-10-03 17:05:06	aravk	preferably without an easy-to-press reset eveything button, because I have a habit of pressing buttons ;)
2020-10-03 17:22:52	login	aravk: you should be generating revocation certificates as soon as you create the new key
2020-10-03 17:23:01	login	and storing the revocation certificate separetely
2020-10-03 17:23:19	login	aravk: it is definitely possible to do crypto operations on card -- that's what all smartcards do
2020-10-03 17:23:23	login	(that are not bar codes)
2020-10-03 17:23:28	login	even payment cards do it
2020-10-03 17:23:35	login	"JavaCard" is the name of the platform
2020-10-03 17:23:45	login	yubikey also does it on-device
2020-10-03 17:24:19	login	ben uses a yubikey
2020-10-03 17:24:27	login	but i don't know if it can store 20 keys
2020-10-03 17:24:30	@ben	hello
2020-10-03 17:25:41	nytpu	my yubikey (i'm not sure which, but it's newer) can only store one gpg key (including subkeys) at a time
2020-10-03 17:26:01	felix	o/
2020-10-03 17:26:03	@ben	I don't have more than one gpg jey
2020-10-03 17:26:27	nytpu	okay mines a yubikey 5 nfc
2020-10-03 17:27:41	@ben	I have the nano
2020-10-03 17:27:45	@ben	3 or 4 idk
2020-10-03 17:27:45	nytpu	looks like it can store one key/subkey for each of the following: authentication, signing, and encryption
2020-10-03 17:27:53	@ben	sounds right
2020-10-03 17:53:51	login	that's awful
2020-10-03 17:53:54	login	not 20
2020-10-03 17:54:09	login	each service should get a different key
2020-10-03 17:54:20	login	so there is no inter-service public-key correlation
2020-10-03 17:54:31	login	same with "device id" in FIDO2
2020-10-03 17:54:58	aravk	yeah it's not great
2020-10-03 17:54:59	login	Apple creates a new device ID almost like an HD wallet
2020-10-03 17:55:25	login	so there is a device seed, but the device ids cannot be correlated without the device seed
2020-10-03 18:23:01		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-03 18:27:39		rodolphoeck has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-03 18:29:19	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 18:45:00	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 19:44:25		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-03 20:02:22		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-03 20:03:31	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 20:04:30	lukee	good evening my fellow gopherweb, I mean gemini, siblings
2020-10-03 20:26:52	▬▬▶	baschdel has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 20:26:56		baschdel has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-03 20:33:12	@tomasino	heh
2020-10-03 20:48:01		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-03 20:49:14	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 20:53:56	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-03 21:06:03	zephryn	greetings!
2020-10-03 21:12:12	aravk	you know what would be interesting
2020-10-03 21:12:15	aravk	oh hi zephryn
2020-10-03 21:12:27	aravk	running a headless server somewhere with the gpg keys
2020-10-03 21:12:50	aravk	locked into a single user (700 mask and everything)
2020-10-03 21:13:01	aravk	and you make a custom server speaking a custom protocol
2020-10-03 21:13:06	aravk	for gpg over the air
2020-10-03 21:13:23	aravk	so you send the server instructions on what to do with the keys
2020-10-03 21:13:27	aravk	e.g. encrypt something
2020-10-03 21:13:35	aravk	the server will do it on its end and return the result
2020-10-03 21:14:04	aravk	this works even for large amounts of stuff to encrypt/decrypt because of how pgp works
2020-10-03 21:14:21	aravk	when encrypting stuff, the data is actually encrypted to a shorter passphrase, which is actually encrypted using the key
2020-10-03 21:14:33	kevinsan	yah, rejoice! gemini.circumlunar's certificate has risen :)
2020-10-03 21:14:35	aravk	so the server only needs to generate the key, and the client can do 90% of all the work
2020-10-03 21:15:29	aravk	this way you can store as many keys as you want in any configuration
2020-10-03 21:15:36	aravk	plus there's no chance of losing the keys
2020-10-03 21:15:55	aravk	login: thoughts on above idea?
2020-10-03 21:25:29	lukee	I came across a gemini site, almost entirely written in (simple) html. How will clients deal with that?
2020-10-03 21:26:15	aravk	depends on the client lukee
2020-10-03 21:26:34	aravk	some will display it as plain text and so the readers will have to parse it themselves
2020-10-03 21:26:40	aravk	other will render the html
2020-10-03 21:27:07	lukee	it seems a challenge to the orthodoxy of using gemtext, but perfectly within spec
2020-10-03 21:27:10	aravk	some will not even try to display it and will offer to save it to be viewed with a different program
2020-10-03 21:27:12	kevinsan	lukee: what's the URL?
2020-10-03 21:27:27	aravk	others will just break ;)
2020-10-03 21:27:30	zephryn	some clients also just direct it to whatever program is used for .html files yeah
2020-10-03 21:27:42	lukee	gemini://mayvaneday.art/
2020-10-03 21:27:57	lukee	some interesting writing in there on the blog
2020-10-03 21:29:17	lukee	for example on this page gemini://mayvaneday.art/archive/blog/index.html
2020-10-03 21:29:23	zephryn	it's strange seeing html through gemini haha
2020-10-03 21:31:07	zephryn	i do think it'd be interesting seeing something like markdown uesd as a middle ground between html and gemtext
2020-10-03 21:31:10	kevinsan	lukee: I can't read with Geminaut till you release the certificate tolerance change
2020-10-03 21:31:40	kevinsan	but I'm thinking Geminaut could render the html anyway, right?
2020-10-03 21:32:00	lukee	yeah sorry! the next version of GemiNaut has html rendering (by converting to gemtext) and simple websites
2020-10-03 21:33:18	aravk	oh that's cool lukee
2020-10-03 21:34:05	lukee	https://imgur.com/a/2hWCQHa
2020-10-03 21:34:06	kevinsan	yeah, i had a quick squizz at the changelog yesterday.
2020-10-03 21:35:07	lukee	I'm waiting for some technical support to be able to get my software signing capabilities working. Hopefully that will reduce some of the false positives from the AV utilities
2020-10-03 21:35:15	lukee	hope to get it out later this week
2020-10-03 21:35:43	lukee	I tried Kristall - it works fine on html pages as it has a simple html renderer
2020-10-03 21:36:20	lukee	Do any other clients make any attempt to do something sensible with html?
2020-10-03 21:36:45	lukee	If you are on the command line, does your client fire the html file into lynx or similar?
2020-10-03 21:37:36	zephryn	av98 seems to try to use lynx by default
2020-10-03 21:37:38	@tomasino	i didn't enable html in kristall, so it kicks me to firefox
2020-10-03 21:38:19	@tomasino	that's for http stuff, though
2020-10-03 21:38:26	@tomasino	i haven't tried html content on gemini://
2020-10-03 21:38:26	lukee	but still if the hypertext page is launched into some external app, you will struggle to follow any embedded gemini links I guess
2020-10-03 21:38:37	@tomasino	if it displays at all
2020-10-03 21:39:59	kevinsan	lukee: the articles are kinda funny, it's interesting to ponder what's behind such hostility.
2020-10-03 21:40:03	zephryn	also *used, i'm a few minutes in and i already made a typo :P
2020-10-03 21:40:19	zephryn	yeah the articles certainly seem interesting
2020-10-03 21:40:43	kevinsan	i'm honestly quite baffled why anyone would go to such lengths to deride stuff and people.
2020-10-03 21:41:04	lukee	an interesting counterpoint to some of the standard gemini orthodoxy. I appreciate it, even if the tone is a bit contrarian at times
2020-10-03 21:41:18	zephryn	i never sensed that such hard views about gemini only being used for gemtext were really prevalent on the mailing list
2020-10-03 21:41:37	zephryn	i can agree, it's good to see other views on stuff
2020-10-03 21:41:44	@tomasino	the spec says clients must support gemtext as the baseline. that's about it on the subject
2020-10-03 21:42:17	kevinsan	that ^^  since it doesn't preclude any other content being served.
2020-10-03 21:42:37	lukee	I think there is some meat in the discussion about what to do if gemtext isnt enough for what you want, but you still want hypertext
2020-10-03 21:42:48	lukee	over gemini
2020-10-03 21:43:24	lukee	one argument that is trotted out is "use something else, like html"
2020-10-03 21:43:44	zephryn	i've always felt like something closer to plain markdown would be a good solution
2020-10-03 21:43:57	lukee	but if there is no actual support for html, its a sort of fake response
2020-10-03 21:44:05	lukee	same for markdown
2020-10-03 21:45:26	lukee	for other formats, it seems much simpler (like pdf or images) as these are self-contained binaries that just launch in whatever app you have associated with that mime type
2020-10-03 21:46:00	lukee	but hypertext formats like md and html, require a hypertext runtime to make the links work
2020-10-03 21:46:26	zephryn	as in, having them parsed correctly?
2020-10-03 21:46:29	lukee	yes
2020-10-03 21:46:44	lukee	for example to resolve relative links and make links active
2020-10-03 21:47:31	kevinsan	would many people have bothered to write a browser if the syntax were more complex. more importantly, how many existing developers want to continue developing and releasing new versions?
2020-10-03 21:48:27	lukee	that is true kevinsan, but it does mean the statement "use html if you dont like gemtext" is sort of moot
2020-10-03 21:48:28	kevinsan	(i mean, that's not my objection to making things more complex, but it's a valid question, from a practical prespective)
2020-10-03 21:49:33	lukee	my personal route through this question is to render html back to gmi, within the client. Then use the standard gemtext rendering engine
2020-10-03 21:50:45	lukee	but I dont get the impression many other clients try to do anything with md or html beyond shooting the content to another ap
2020-10-03 21:50:49	kevinsan	i just link to an http server when I want to serve something http, i'd never consider serving html over port 1965. for all the reasons you mention
2020-10-03 21:51:15	lukee	sorry, forgot to mention again, that Kristall does a sterling job
2020-10-03 21:51:51	lukee	also diohsc has an architecture that lets you plug in alternative renderers for other mime types
2020-10-03 21:52:25	lukee	so you can plug in something like html2gmi or similar https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi
2020-10-03 21:53:04	zephryn	that's actually a pretty neat way to handle it :o
2020-10-03 21:53:35	lukee	I think the author of diohsc also uses pdf2text to handle pdf
2020-10-03 21:53:52	zephryn	i do think that it should be the client and/or user's decision how non-essential file types should be handled
2020-10-03 21:56:39	lukee	text/html is the 5th most seen mime type in the geminiverse
2020-10-03 21:56:40	lukee	gemini://gus.guru/statistics
2020-10-03 21:56:51	lukee	way before markdown
2020-10-03 22:00:43	kevinsan	and gemtext is number 3 in the list of pages served via Gemini servers :)
2020-10-03 22:01:15	lukee	yeah thats strange - it used to be #1, I think some servers joined recently with a whole shed load of legacy text files
2020-10-03 22:01:18	kevinsan	i wonder if text/plain is just gemtext being misdescribed
2020-10-03 22:01:53	kevinsan	oh really? do you happen to know what they were serving (i'm guessing gopher content)
2020-10-03 22:02:42	lukee	I think one of them had a mirror of http://textfiles.com/internet/
2020-10-03 22:03:28	lukee	beyond that I don't know. I guess you can probably ask GUS just to return text/plain and see what comes back
2020-10-03 22:05:28	lukee	gemini://gus.guru/search?content_type%3Atext%2Fplain
2020-10-03 22:05:46	lukee	Page 1 of 2816
2020-10-03 22:07:50	kevinsan	:) thanks, yes - there's a lot of small files. indexing and search is a tough thing to keep on top of
2020-10-03 22:10:14	kevinsan	curiously, GUS is actually giving back text/gemini results for that search criterion
2020-10-03 22:10:38	kevinsan	i think it's a bit confused (e.g. see page 350)
2020-10-03 22:10:46	lukee	you got that far :)
2020-10-03 22:11:57	kevinsan	actually, see page 200 (there would have been no page 350, so not sure exactly what i was looking at)
2020-10-03 22:14:41	lukee	yes I think you're right. Somewhat reassuring that gemtext is perhaps still #1. checking other pages of results at random suggests there is some mis-classification by GUS somewhere 
2020-10-03 22:14:48	lukee	e.g. gemini://gus.guru/search/502?content_type%3Atext/plain
2020-10-03 22:16:27	lukee	in fact those mime filters in GUS are not working at all
2020-10-03 22:17:21	lukee	well, they are partially working 
2020-10-03 22:17:50	kevinsan	i'm getting mixed results - sometimes 2800 pages, sometimes ~6500. something's wrong. I notice it's not urlencoding the '/' in text/gemini of the query parameter
2020-10-03 22:18:26	kevinsan	but it is clearly getting the full string, so probably irrelevant.
2020-10-03 22:24:06	lukee	there's some weird stuff going in GUS
2020-10-03 22:24:32	lukee	for example searching for content_type:application/pdf to return PDFs
2020-10-03 22:24:40	lukee	has 175 pages
2020-10-03 22:24:51	lukee	page 63 is still returning pdfs
2020-10-03 22:24:53	lukee	gemini://gus.guru/search/63?content_type%3Aapplication/pdf
2020-10-03 22:25:07	lukee	but on subsequent pages it starts returning other stuff
2020-10-03 22:25:18	lukee	gemini://gus.guru/search/64?content_type%3Aapplication/pdf
2020-10-03 22:43:23		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-03 23:58:48		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-04 00:31:01	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 01:48:06	★	Dr-WaSabi ponders the idea of a gemini client for a kindle?
2020-10-04 02:20:12	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 02:22:35	boringcactus	hmmm do i want to port my blog from markdown to gemtext and serve all of it on gemini, or do i want to work on a https://hub.docker.com/r/jwilder/nginx-proxy equivalent for gemini. questions, questions..
2020-10-04 02:36:26		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-04 02:37:59	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 02:38:41		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-04 02:39:45	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 02:39:51		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-04 02:40:00	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 02:40:51		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-04 02:40:56	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 02:50:17		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-04 02:50:44	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 02:50:45		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-04 02:50:53	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 02:56:15		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-04 02:56:58	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 04:53:58		lanodan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-04 04:54:12	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 05:28:58		lanodan has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-04 06:22:18	▬▬▶	except has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 06:22:37	epoch	except is my title/shortener bot
2020-10-04 06:22:44	epoch	hopefully it won't be annoying in here.
2020-10-04 06:23:21	epoch	it will get the "title" for gemini links too :)
2020-10-04 06:23:33	epoch	and the shortener can be used over gemini
2020-10-04 06:23:44	epoch	gemini://gus.guru/statistics
2020-10-04 06:23:44	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxini://gus.guru/statistics https://epo.k.vu/bc96 || gemini://epo.k.vu/bc96
2020-10-04 06:23:59	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: GUS - Gemini Universal Search
2020-10-04 06:24:24	epoch	(it looks for the first header line and strips the leading #s)
2020-10-04 06:24:33	epoch	only for text/gemini
2020-10-04 06:24:43	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/floppy.hackvr
2020-10-04 06:24:43	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/floppy.hackvr https://epo.k.vu/002d || gemini://epo.k.vu/002d
2020-10-04 06:24:49	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: application/hackvr
2020-10-04 06:24:58	epoch	it'll output the content-type if it isn't text/gemini
2020-10-04 06:25:48	epoch	(for gemini links. it attempts to get a <title> for http links)
2020-10-04 06:26:34	epoch	no support yet for html over gemini or gemini over http
2020-10-04 06:29:22	epoch	just saw /someone/ connect to my gemini server
2020-10-04 06:43:50	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/invaders.img
2020-10-04 06:43:50	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/invaders.img https://epo.k.vu/fae1 || gemini://epo.k.vu/fae1
2020-10-04 06:43:54	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: application/x86-image
2020-10-04 07:07:21	epoch	I know it is something or someone in this channel sending requests to my server.
2020-10-04 07:07:45	epoch	saw a request for epo.k.vu/bc96 and this is the only channel that link was posted
2020-10-04 07:08:58	epoch	"The Lounge IRC Client"
2020-10-04 07:09:23	epoch	somebody's IRC client is autofetching links?
2020-10-04 07:09:55	dax	i think The Lounge does that, yeah
2020-10-04 08:36:40	ehmry	I might be responsible for gus statistics showing more text files then gemini
2020-10-04 08:42:29	ehmry	gemini://gemini.spam.works/mirrors/textfiles
2020-10-04 08:42:29	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxini://gemini.spam.works/mirrors/textfiles https://epo.k.vu/fa97 || gemini://epo.k.vu/fa97
2020-10-04 08:42:31	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: gemini://gemini.spam.works/mirrors/textfiles/
2020-10-04 08:47:30	aravk	?A
2020-10-04 08:48:24	login	aravk: i read it
2020-10-04 08:48:37	login	my thoughts are -- it already exists, and is called a hardware security module
2020-10-04 08:48:47	aravk	hm
2020-10-04 08:48:48	login	it's used in big companies to store secrets such as Apple's or Microsoft's signing keys
2020-10-04 08:49:01	login	on which millions if not a billion devices depend
2020-10-04 08:49:34	login	and the second thing is, the symemtric encryption part should not involve sending the symmetric key out of the server
2020-10-04 08:49:57	login	because temporary storage of the symmetric key on the client could make it vulnerable
2020-10-04 08:50:16	login	anybody who finds the symmetric key doesn't need to use pgp to decrypt ciphertext to get the symmetric key
2020-10-04 08:51:16	aravk	either the client has the symmetric key or the server has to do all the encryption/decryption
2020-10-04 08:51:36	aravk	the latter doesn't scale for large amounts of stuff being encrypted/decrypted
2020-10-04 08:52:38	aravk	and in ordinary scenarios (i.e. where the client has the keys) the client would be doing the encryption work anyways and such would of course need and use the symmetric key
2020-10-04 08:53:15	aravk	in order for the client to even access the encryption/decryption capabilities of the server it should be verified and trusted
2020-10-04 08:53:40	aravk	which means that it is assumed to be at least somewhat secure
2020-10-04 08:59:49	login	the server shouldn't be used to encrypt mass amounts of data
2020-10-04 08:59:57	login	it would be for authentication purposes right
2020-10-04 09:00:05	login	like an internet GPG agent
2020-10-04 09:03:30	aravk	I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say
2020-10-04 09:22:12	login	neither do i
2020-10-04 09:22:17	login	the server holds the pgp key
2020-10-04 09:22:24	login	but the symmetric key is supplied to it by the client?
2020-10-04 09:22:39	login	or the server generates the symmetric key and then encrypts it and sends it to the client?
2020-10-04 09:41:06	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 09:44:48	aravk	yeah, the client provides the symmetric key
2020-10-04 09:44:54	aravk	because it will need it to actually encrypt the data
2020-10-04 09:45:00	aravk	the server is only encrypting the symmetric key
2020-10-04 09:59:37	login	i see, i understand now
2020-10-04 09:59:51	login	what about using a double-ratchet algorithm?
2020-10-04 10:03:56	aravk	how would that work/help?
2020-10-04 10:07:41	login	it will ensure perfect forward secrecy between the client and server communications
2020-10-04 10:09:18	aravk	I'm picturing my protocol to contain absolutely no authentication of clients and servers or secrecy and encryption in client-server communications
2020-10-04 10:11:02	aravk	but of course servers would host it over some secure protocol, e.g. SSH
2020-10-04 10:11:10	aravk	but I'm still figuring this side out
2020-10-04 10:11:21	aravk	I don't want to reimplement authentication and encryption and consequently get it wrong
2020-10-04 10:15:47	aravk	also, if I'm understanding correctly, a double ratchet algorithm is essentially using a second Diffie-Helman round to renew session keys on every message, even if the message is meant to be encrypted
2020-10-04 10:16:31	aravk	that way even if the attacker compromises a session key from one interaction they are still unable to calculate the next session key
2020-10-04 10:58:39	login	^ if they miss any message in between
2020-10-04 10:58:58	login	the session key is also asymmetric
2020-10-04 10:59:38	login	*the second DH round uses another pair of asymmetric keys
2020-10-04 10:59:42	aravk	yeah
2020-10-04 11:00:32	aravk	my point is that I don't want to have to deal with all of this in my protocol
2020-10-04 11:00:57	aravk	I'd rather servers serve this protocol on top of whatever secure communication schemes already exist
2020-10-04 11:08:58	▬▬▶	lkhd has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 12:39:40	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 12:47:03	▬▬▶	wallet has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 12:49:59		wallet has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-04 12:50:50	@tomasino	i saw cat mention konpeito was back up
2020-10-04 12:50:58	@tomasino	but now it looks down to me
2020-10-04 12:51:07	@tomasino	anyone have any luck catching the fall tape?
2020-10-04 12:51:30	felix	I'm not sure what you're talking about. :)
2020-10-04 13:01:52	@tomasino	it's getting debugged now. cat switched from jetforce to molly brown, but something still crashed
2020-10-04 13:03:25	felix	Fingers crossed.
2020-10-04 13:08:28		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-04 13:18:10		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-04 13:20:06	~tiwesdaeg	gemini and stability ;P
2020-10-04 13:20:21	~tiwesdaeg	I think gemserv crashes every couple of weeks
2020-10-04 13:21:19	felix	Well, all this software is still very new.
2020-10-04 13:37:13	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 13:39:11	felix	\o
2020-10-04 13:52:13	sprung	gemserv runs fine on my box
2020-10-04 13:52:23	sprung	perhaps it might crash sometimes :P
2020-10-04 13:56:33		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-04 14:19:15	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 14:23:04		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-04 14:24:27	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 14:51:00		swinslow has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-04 14:51:15	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 15:01:05	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 15:47:31		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-04 16:31:16	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 18:02:12	kevinsan	i've run Gemserv for months. it has never crashed, nor failed in any way. Compiled from source and running on Debian 9, rust installed via rustup, on x86.
2020-10-04 18:03:33	kevinsan	if anyone's having problems with Gemserv and needs more details on my envoronment to compare (e.g. library versions, etc.), feel free to message me.
2020-10-04 18:13:07	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 18:15:17	felix	o/
2020-10-04 18:16:31	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 18:20:08		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-04 18:25:35	lukee_	evening folks
2020-10-04 18:32:09	felix	Hello!
2020-10-04 18:32:19	felix	Sorry, I was just going. How are you?
2020-10-04 18:33:23	felix	Anyway, see you!
2020-10-04 18:33:27		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-04 19:28:47		rodolphoeck has quit (quit: Dun goofed...)
2020-10-04 19:42:57	▬▬▶	sose has joined #gemini
2020-10-04 22:12:11		lukee_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-04 23:46:10	lkhd	Sounds like Gemserv is the way to go then
2020-10-04 23:55:49		lkhd has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-05 00:02:55		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-05 00:03:51	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 00:23:14		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-05 00:59:18		nytpu has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-05 02:25:28	zephryn	what thoughts are there regarding using quic with gemini?
2020-10-05 03:20:13		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-05 04:36:07		hhes has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-05 04:36:09	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 06:16:52	▬▬▶	lkhd has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 06:42:48		lkhd has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-05 08:22:23	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 08:25:23		vee has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-10-05 08:25:32	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 08:25:56	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 08:29:04		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-05 08:48:04		lukee_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-05 09:35:25		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-05 09:37:44	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 12:38:30	boringcactus	im gonna start working on Another Goddamn Static Site Generator in a bit, and as a component of that i've built https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/md2gemtext
2020-10-05 12:38:30	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxps://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/md2gemtext https://epo.k.vu/e529 || gemini://epo.k.vu/e529
2020-10-05 12:38:33	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: ~boringcactus/md2gemtext - sourcehut git
2020-10-05 12:39:33	boringcactus	instead of rewriting all my old blog posts to be gemtext, i think it'd make more sense to keep them in markdown and translate to gemtext
2020-10-05 12:47:54	login	time to find a markdown2gemtext converter
2020-10-05 12:48:06	boringcactus	i mean. that's the thing i just wrote
2020-10-05 12:50:05	login	oh, i see
2020-10-05 12:50:17	login	i thought by translate you meant manually translate
2020-10-05 12:50:22	boringcactus	nah
2020-10-05 12:50:31	login	oh, i didn't scroll up and see md2gemtext
2020-10-05 12:52:34	boringcactus	i know some people manually write both a markdown and a gemtext file, but why would i want two sources of truth for everything when i can simply not do that
2020-10-05 13:03:01	login	true
2020-10-05 13:18:39	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 13:53:27	aravk	since gemtext has fewer features, wouldn't it be better to write the original in gemtext and then convert to markdown?
2020-10-05 13:53:53	aravk	or does the md2gemtext converter automagically extract links etc. from lines and put them on their own lines and stuff
2020-10-05 14:21:11	ℹ 	aravk is now known as honkintech
2020-10-05 14:21:31	ℹ 	honkintech is now known as aravk
2020-10-05 14:39:02	ℹ 	sprung is now known as stu
2020-10-05 14:39:14	ℹ 	stu is now known as sprung
2020-10-05 15:31:41	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 15:36:44	xj9	it can, depends on flags 
2020-10-05 15:36:55	xj9	that's what I used to convert my site to gemini 
2020-10-05 15:37:58	xj9	though I didn't realize until I was half way though doing manual touch ups that this was the case 
2020-10-05 15:48:57	jcowan	What's the general best practice for such link extraction. Are they marked with footnote numbers?  And where do the footnotes go?
2020-10-05 15:51:53	aravk	what I would do is put the link lines immediately after the first paragraph that mentions them
2020-10-05 15:52:00	aravk	and optionally again after other paragraphs that mention them
2020-10-05 16:42:27		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-05 16:46:46	jcowan	A paragraph being delimited with a blank line here?
2020-10-05 16:49:03	aravk	yeah
2020-10-05 16:49:31	aravk	but I mean typical paragraphs in Gemtext are single hard lines which get automatically wrapped
2020-10-05 16:49:55	aravk	so the blank line is not strictly necessary, but it provides good visual indication that the paragraph is finished
2020-10-05 16:50:17	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 17:14:05	xj9	^
2020-10-05 17:14:39	xj9	i've started using names instead of numbers though because its a pain to renumber everything when stuff changes.
2020-10-05 17:19:21	jcowan	Good point, you can have indented-first-line paragraphs too.
2020-10-05 17:19:40	jcowan	Names for footnotes?
2020-10-05 17:21:33	xj9	names for footnotes yes
2020-10-05 17:21:36	▬▬▶	zilti has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 17:26:42	aravk	I generally don't even use footnotes, I just use the link name as a good enough indication that it refers to something from the previous paragraph
2020-10-05 17:27:06	aravk	e.g. I'll refer to the 'self-pipe trick' in a paragraph and follow it up with a link where the link text is 'The self-pipe trick'
2020-10-05 17:27:19	aravk	though that's harder to do automatically
2020-10-05 17:42:50	★	jcowan nods
2020-10-05 17:58:13		aravk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-05 18:12:51	▬▬▶	noxzed has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 18:38:49	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 18:41:14	lukee	jcowan: numbered links is one approach, quite widely used in gopher text files to cite links. Using square brackets to mark the place within the line of the citation, followed by the list of links numbered
2020-10-05 18:42:40	lukee	you can also make some decisions about the frequency of emitted links. If you emit them after each paragraph the document can feel a bit fragmented, on the other hand if you leave them all to the end of the page, the user has to scroll up and down the document
2020-10-05 18:42:45	jcowan	That's what I had in mind in the first place, yes.  But named links in the style of "(Chabon 1995)" are pretty good too.
2020-10-05 18:43:27	lukee	yes - the basic problem is how to mark the citation within the text, or not to bother
2020-10-05 18:44:58	lukee	I have published a utility html2gmi which offers various options you can tailor (numbered links or not, citation markers or not etc) https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi
2020-10-05 18:44:59	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxps://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi https://epo.k.vu/71e4 || gemini://epo.k.vu/71e4
2020-10-05 18:45:02	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: GitHub - LukeEmmet/html2gmi: A command line application to convert HTML to GMI (Gemini text/gemini)
2020-10-05 18:47:56	lukee	Also in the upcoming release of my own client GemiNaut, I also wire up the link citations in the text to point to the URL of the link - it is better in my opinion where the link density is high - for example when translating some web pages with many links
2020-10-05 18:48:46	lukee	(and then not show the link itself) e.g. https://imgur.com/a/2hWCQHa
2020-10-05 18:48:47	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxps://imgur.com/a/2hWCQHa https://epo.k.vu/5012 || gemini://epo.k.vu/5012
2020-10-05 18:48:49	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: Imgur: The magic of the Internet
2020-10-05 18:58:22	▬▬▶	aravk has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 19:23:34	boringcactus	aravk, md2gemtext also just uses the link text as enough of an indication
2020-10-05 19:24:16	aravk	ah that's cool boringcactus
2020-10-05 19:30:20	boringcactus	for example, https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/md2gemtext/tree/main/README.md?view-source turns into https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/md2gemtext/tree/main/README.gmi
2020-10-05 19:30:20	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxps://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/md2gemtext/tree/main/README.md?view-source https://epo.k.vu/991f || gemini://epo.k.vu/991f
2020-10-05 19:30:23	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: ~boringcactus/md2gemtext: README.md - sourcehut git
2020-10-05 19:30:23	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxps://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/md2gemtext/tree/main/README.gmi https://epo.k.vu/5045 || gemini://epo.k.vu/5045
2020-10-05 19:30:25	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: ~boringcactus/md2gemtext: README.gmi - sourcehut git
2020-10-05 19:32:41	aravk	who runs the except bot again?
2020-10-05 19:32:57	aravk	It seems to be replacing https:// with hxxps://
2020-10-05 19:32:58	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxps:// https://epo.k.vu/f8ea || gemini://epo.k.vu/f8ea
2020-10-05 19:33:26	aravk	which is a strangely weird bug (if it is a bug)
2020-10-05 19:34:06	autumnova	That would be epoch.
2020-10-05 19:36:15	boringcactus	iirc it does something similar for gemini:// links
2020-10-05 19:36:15	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxini:// https://epo.k.vu/0ec6 || gemini://epo.k.vu/0ec6
2020-10-05 19:36:44	aravk	what
2020-10-05 19:37:24	aravk	so it just writes 'hxx' to the first three characters of the scheme name
2020-10-05 19:37:56	aravk	epoch - bug ^
2020-10-05 19:45:02	@tomasino	Why am I getting a bunch of notices
2020-10-05 19:47:04	jrhorn424	tomasino: looks like I'm getting notifications from except bot as well
2020-10-05 19:47:22	★	tomasino hates bots
2020-10-05 19:48:41	lukee	it does seem a bit unnecessary
2020-10-05 19:49:02	lukee	what is the problem with copy/paste?
2020-10-05 19:50:26	lukee	is there a standard way to turn off a particular bot or is it a client specific thing if you can or not?
2020-10-05 19:52:05	★	lukee adds except to ignore list
2020-10-05 19:54:00	jrhorn424	lukee: thanks for the reminder about that feature
2020-10-05 19:56:40	@tomasino	you can ignore, yeah.
2020-10-05 19:56:52	@tomasino	in the big public channels we limit the bots that are allowed to be there
2020-10-05 19:57:50	lukee	maybe I'm missing the point, but I can't understand what the added value of that new except bot is - can anyone explain?
2020-10-05 19:58:17	@tomasino	no clue. it appears broken
2020-10-05 19:58:39	lukee	like bots in general I guess
2020-10-05 20:12:42		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-05 20:42:31		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-05 20:49:48		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-05 21:06:32	epoch	why would that be a bug?
2020-10-05 21:18:13	boringcactus	because what's a hxxini
2020-10-05 21:25:47	aravk	or hxxps
2020-10-05 21:25:53	aravk	http://example.com
2020-10-05 21:25:53	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxp://example.com https://epo.k.vu/a9b9 || gemini://epo.k.vu/a9b9
2020-10-05 21:25:55	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: Example Domain
2020-10-05 21:25:55	@tomasino	and also, what is it doing?
2020-10-05 21:26:00	aravk	or hxxp
2020-10-05 21:26:13	aravk	it seems to provide shortening links and to give the title if it can
2020-10-05 21:57:12	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 22:02:38		jucelo has quit (Changing host)
2020-10-05 22:02:38	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-10-05 22:07:53	jrhorn424	a cursory search suggests that hxxp and similar protocol-munging technique are used to: prevent bots from scraping links, prevent autolinking, prevent automatic shortening, as a way to prevent dangerous links from being clickable, and to prevent engines from excluding a ranked page based on linking to offensive content.
2020-10-05 22:08:25	jrhorn424	I don't think any of those are reasons for an IRC bot to munge protocols, especially since it posts them along with cross-protocol links
2020-10-05 22:28:54		acdw2 has quit (quit: See You Space Cowpokes ...)
2020-10-05 23:14:16	zephryn	ah, i was wondering what those protocol names were about
2020-10-05 23:35:25		dax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-06 00:08:47	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 00:10:41		dctrud has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-10-06 01:43:54	epoch	the original link is provided by the person saying it, I'm only having the bot repeat it so you don't get the shortened link mixed up with some other link that was shortened about the same time.
2020-10-06 01:46:12	@tomasino	https://tomasino.is/a/luddite
2020-10-06 01:46:12	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxps://tomasino.is/a/luddite https://epo.k.vu/f175 || gemini://epo.k.vu/f175
2020-10-06 01:46:16	@tomasino	,shorten
2020-10-06 01:46:16	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: tomasino is a ... luddite
2020-10-06 01:46:17	tildebot	[Shorturl] Shortened URL: https://ttm.sh/dnx
2020-10-06 01:46:17	ℹ 	Notice(except): hxxps://ttm.sh/dnx https://epo.k.vu/aa36 || gemini://epo.k.vu/aa36
2020-10-06 01:46:33	ℹ 	Notice(except): title: Redirecting...
2020-10-06 01:46:35	epoch	I guess I could just use the nick of the person that said the link instead of the link itself
2020-10-06 01:46:52	epoch	since the same person won't ever get multiple links received by the bot out of order
2020-10-06 02:06:15		zilti has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-06 02:35:32		except has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-06 02:36:07		epoch has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-06 02:37:00		kvothe has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-06 02:38:09	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 03:01:18	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 03:02:47		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-06 03:26:11		acdw2 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-06 03:56:03	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 03:57:18		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-06 03:57:29	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 03:57:48		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-06 03:58:29	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 05:36:35		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-06 05:38:53	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 06:52:33	weeb	whats the except thing?
2020-10-06 06:52:40	weeb	lots of notices
2020-10-06 08:22:48	aravk	weeb: it's a bot epoch made that reports link titles and offers a shortened link
2020-10-06 12:42:44	CoopDot	The title is nice, but I would like the auto-shortener to only fire if the URL are longer than 80 characters
2020-10-06 12:55:58	CoopDot	gemini://x-z.se/
2020-10-06 12:59:08	CoopDot	gemini://x-z.se/htmlite/  the discussion of having a stripped down version of HTML inspired me to write this
2020-10-06 13:14:32	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 13:52:46	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 14:09:00		wingy has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-06 14:09:13	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 14:22:00	▬▬▶	auscompgeek has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 14:31:23		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-06 14:57:54		aravk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-06 14:58:06	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 15:05:21	felix	o/
2020-10-06 15:06:14	lukee	hi felix
2020-10-06 15:06:21	lukee	whats up with you?
2020-10-06 15:07:06	felix	Been coding. Enjoying the last of good weather. Getting my teeth fixed.
2020-10-06 15:07:12	felix	How are you?
2020-10-06 15:07:50	lukee	not bad thanks. Just back in from the workshop - been doing some glueing up and heat bending of some wood
2020-10-06 15:09:46	felix	Good work!
2020-10-06 15:26:30	▬▬▶	ComputerTech has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 15:26:34		ComputerTech has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-10-06 16:44:19	jrhorn424	epoch: thanks for the context +1
2020-10-06 17:48:00		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-06 17:50:41	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 17:58:32		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-06 18:32:04	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 18:49:44	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 18:51:26	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 19:09:34	▬▬▶	aravk has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 19:33:39		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-06 19:36:41	zephryn	hope everyone's doing alright ^^
2020-10-06 19:42:58	aravk	all's well here zephryn, you?
2020-10-06 20:06:30	zephryn	i'm doing fine, probably going to work on some more projects soon
2020-10-06 20:07:39		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-06 20:13:56	aravk	good, good
2020-10-06 20:25:56		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-06 20:27:52	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 21:03:52	▬▬▶	acdw0 has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 21:45:32	Cadey	boringcactus: your patch to gemtext is live, thanks again!
2020-10-06 21:56:26		acdw0 has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-06 22:00:39	▬▬▶	acdw7 has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 22:20:14		lukee has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-10-06 22:30:28		acdw7 has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-06 22:43:56		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-06 23:14:36		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-06 23:20:13	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-10-06 23:20:14	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-10-07 00:02:17	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 00:31:06		acdw2 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-07 00:35:34	▬▬▶	insom has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 00:45:37	boringcactus	yw Cadey
2020-10-07 01:28:49	@tomasino	Cadey++
2020-10-07 01:51:52	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 02:04:52		thefunkyspaw has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-07 02:07:14	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 02:08:46	zephryn	:P
2020-10-07 02:10:12	login	hi zephryn 
2020-10-07 02:11:32		acdw2 has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-07 02:11:51	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 02:27:12		cel has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-07 02:34:51		acdw2 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-07 02:54:37	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 03:47:51	zephryn	hello, login
2020-10-07 04:17:14	login	how are you, zephryn?
2020-10-07 04:43:12		insom has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-07 04:51:00	zephryn	i'm doing alright!
2020-10-07 05:10:14		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-07 05:10:20	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 05:26:05	zephryn	was meaning to get more stuff done, but i guess i got sidetracked lol
2020-10-07 07:20:30	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 08:18:23		gohan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-07 08:44:40	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 09:09:36		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-07 09:23:05	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 09:44:31	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 09:47:30	lukee	hi everyone
2020-10-07 09:47:34	idf	hi
2020-10-07 09:49:24		idf has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-10-07 09:49:47	lukee	I've just released a new build 0.8.8 of GemiNaut. Main changes are to support simple web browsing and also it has a signed  binary and installer, which *should* help reduce the number of false positives from anti-virus utilities marking it as suspicious
2020-10-07 09:50:21	lukee	if anyone is on Windows and fancies trying it, download the installer from https://www.marmaladefoo.com/pages/geminaut
2020-10-07 09:50:26		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-07 09:51:11	lukee	I'd be particularly interested to hear if it is now easier to install and use without having to fish it out of the AV quarantine
2020-10-07 09:51:44	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 11:35:04	boringcactus	i did still get a SmartScreen alert https://f.boringcactus.com/2020-10-07_05-34-27.png but idk how u fix those
2020-10-07 11:43:27	boringcactus	that's the only bump, though, and running gemifedi in horribly insecure mode looks pretty good https://f.boringcactus.com/2020-10-07_05-42-45.png
2020-10-07 11:48:57	lukee	thanks for the feedback boringcactus. Yes I would still expect the SmartScreen alert to show. You have to pay $$$ and go through extended validation, showing you have secure corporate IT processes etc, to get that removed
2020-10-07 11:50:24	lukee	But it seems to be better than the previous release which was unsigned and without an installer. These together were triggering many more warnings, and sometimes pre-emptive deletion
2020-10-07 11:54:12	aravk	nice stuff lukee!  Unfortunately can't test, but it's great to see this stuff developing.
2020-10-07 11:56:00	lukee	thanks aravk
2020-10-07 11:56:28	boringcactus	oh my clone to fix a typo had gopher-get autoyeeted by windows defender, i see what you mean now lmao
2020-10-07 12:00:17	lukee	if you have any typo fixes for gopher-get - feel free to send me a patch/PR and I'll merge them in for next time
2020-10-07 12:01:34	boringcactus	oh it was for geminaut itself, but since it's all one repo the gopher get exe still showed up and got flagged as a trojan
2020-10-07 12:01:48	boringcactus	and i just sent in https://github.com/LukeEmmet/GemiNaut/pull/8
2020-10-07 12:02:01	lukee	ok thanks
2020-10-07 12:03:25	lukee	merged - thanks!
2020-10-07 12:10:54	boringcactus	yw!
2020-10-07 12:18:41	lukee	Also I just pushed the signed versions of the utility apps (gopher-get etc) into the repo. It might help if you are doing any work on the repo in future
2020-10-07 12:23:09	boringcactus	that should come in handy, yeah
2020-10-07 12:35:54	boringcactus	i do feel a little bad for going "oh hey i really like this! here's a pile of feature requests lol"
2020-10-07 12:38:18	boringcactus	even if several of them were on your to-do list anyway
2020-10-07 12:38:26	lukee	no problem - they're both sensible feature requests. PRs welcomed too if you have the time and inclination
2020-10-07 12:39:22	boringcactus	my C# is a little rusty (and by "a little" i mean "a lot") but i might get around to that at some point
2020-10-07 12:43:29	lukee	there is a todo-list of some of the things I want to implement inside the top level Notes.txt
2020-10-07 12:50:26	boringcactus	ooh i might be able to toss together a suitable C# gemini client library
2020-10-07 12:50:36	boringcactus	sideProjectCount++; i guess
2020-10-07 12:51:14	lukee	there is another gemini c# client TwinPeaks which has made a start on this
2020-10-07 12:51:57	lukee	I thought I might merge it. But at the moment I'm happy to build on the good work of gemget
2020-10-07 12:54:01	lukee	but it would be nice some day to support client certs and TOFU etc
2020-10-07 13:29:44	▬▬▶	insom has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 13:39:14	mhj	So my ARMBian install didn't do so well in terms of security for a Gemini self-hosted server. I previewed it a couple of days ago. So instead, I will be using NetBSD on a Pi3. At least with NetBSD there are minimal processes to keep track of and all services start off disabled.
2020-10-07 13:47:57	oms	mhj: just curious, I tried running NetBSD on a pi3 once and had problems with a wonky keyboard. have you had the same experience?
2020-10-07 13:48:10	oms	not sure if it was a power issue; it happened even running the keyb through a powered usb hub
2020-10-07 13:48:26	mhj	Oh, no problems with that for me.
2020-10-07 13:48:33	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 13:49:06	mhj	Probably was a power issue
2020-10-07 16:19:19		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-07 17:15:50	▬▬▶	acdw5 has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 17:20:45		acdw has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by acdw5))
2020-10-07 17:20:45	ℹ 	acdw5 is now known as acdw
2020-10-07 17:21:03	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 17:35:03	mhj	oms: Just tried NetBSD 9 build from the regular NetBSD site with aarch64 aka ARM64 arch build to boot. It only had problems at first because I was using a fault SD card, but once I changed it to a good one all the problems went away
2020-10-07 17:35:37	mhj	On a Rpi 3
2020-10-07 17:35:46	mhj	No wonky keyboard problems
2020-10-07 17:35:49	acdw	nice!
2020-10-07 17:36:30	mhj	Heyo acdw~
2020-10-07 17:38:28	mhj	Now I should prolly buy a new SD card to replace the faulty one lol
2020-10-07 17:40:01	acdw	hey mhj :) yeah that isn't a terrible idea, lol
2020-10-07 17:55:55		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-07 18:13:56	mhj	How ya been acdw 
2020-10-07 18:23:00	acdw	good
2020-10-07 18:23:02	acdw	!
2020-10-07 18:23:11	acdw	I'ma bout to go to lunch tho,,,,which is like, YUM
2020-10-07 18:24:15		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-07 19:04:46	boringcactus	well, it's nowhere near useful yet, but https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/dotnet-gemini/tree does now technically exist
2020-10-07 19:13:49	lukee	cool stuff!
2020-10-07 20:10:08	kevinsan	thanks for the update lukee. the hoop jumping to get verified by microstuff was kind of you - esp. given that you were not even a beneficiary! :)
2020-10-07 20:47:43		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-07 20:59:59	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 21:23:41	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-07 21:47:11		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-07 21:56:03		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-07 22:22:04	lukee	thanks kevinsan. Yes it is frustrating to say the least to have to do a sacred dance to get the binaries past the holy platform gatekeepers. But the overwhelming majority of Windows users wont be able to compile it themselves
2020-10-07 22:22:38	lukee	more hoop jumping skills to put on my CV
2020-10-07 22:23:27	lukee	It also has the fix about showing a warning, but connecting anyway if there is a problem with the server cert
2020-10-07 22:24:15	kevinsan	yup, seen it once already. non-intrusive
2020-10-07 23:01:37	Dr-WaSabi	well I got it build.. 
2020-10-07 23:02:50	lukee	great - fairly straightforward I hope?
2020-10-07 23:04:48	Dr-WaSabi	just did a donet build 
2020-10-07 23:05:08	Dr-WaSabi	and it compiled 
2020-10-07 23:05:28	lukee	👍
2020-10-07 23:05:52	Dr-WaSabi	don't see any exe? for the protocal or in the test folder.. so I might be doing something wrong there
2020-10-07 23:06:38	lukee	the exe should be created in GemiNaut/bin/Release or GemiNaut/bin/Debug, depending on which build you ran
2020-10-07 23:07:34	lukee	that is normal Visual Studio behaviour I think
2020-10-07 23:08:31	Dr-WaSabi	yeah, I don't have VS.  Just dotnet core
2020-10-07 23:09:20	lukee	oh, I'd be surprised if that worked, it has various Windows GUI libraries including WPF
2020-10-07 23:09:34	boringcactus	build artifacts should wind up in the same place, if it said it didn't have errors
2020-10-07 23:11:01	Dr-WaSabi	nope no errors, but I"m betting I've only got dotnet core cli librarys, so if it's a gui, then I'm betting it would work. or maybe I just haven't found it yet
2020-10-07 23:11:54	lukee	I dont have any experience of using dotnet core to compile windows GUI apps. Not sure if it would be possible to compile or not
2020-10-07 23:12:15	Dr-WaSabi	yeah, same here
2020-10-07 23:12:29	lukee	It will definitely compile using VS community edition which is free
2020-10-07 23:13:12	Dr-WaSabi	yeah, and when I go into town tomorrow I plan on downloading it.. but it would kill my datacap if I tried it at home
2020-10-07 23:13:16	Dr-WaSabi	:D
2020-10-07 23:14:05	lukee	yeah - its a bit of a monster to install
2020-10-07 23:14:22	@tomasino	data.... cap?
2020-10-07 23:14:24	@tomasino	ick
2020-10-07 23:14:25	Dr-WaSabi	I tried sunday I think, and at it's smallest it was like 7 gig for basic windows gui install
2020-10-07 23:14:56	Dr-WaSabi	tomasino: 10 gig a month... it sucks
2020-10-07 23:15:18	@tomasino	well, i suppose it could be a fun challenge
2020-10-07 23:15:22	@tomasino	or a good way to get off the computer
2020-10-07 23:15:28	lukee	7Gb sounds huge - its been a while since I did that, maybe it is that big :/
2020-10-07 23:15:33	★	tomasino goes and uses 10 gb in 2 min
2020-10-07 23:16:14	Dr-WaSabi	thats for the hotspot on my phone.. my phone supposedly has unlimited which I don't get if I get unlimited there why it's hotspot wouldn't
2020-10-07 23:17:21	@tomasino	i've used 48gb this month so far
2020-10-07 23:17:24	@tomasino	just checked 
2020-10-07 23:17:47	lukee	tomasino - I think you must have downloaded the whole of the geminiverse
2020-10-07 23:18:03	@tomasino	heh
2020-10-07 23:18:55	@tomasino	maybe i'll do a little zelda streaming on twitch
2020-10-07 23:19:06	@tomasino	8bitino is my username if anyone wants to watch some retro-gaming
2020-10-07 23:20:06	★	Dr-WaSabi is a retrogame
2020-10-07 23:26:05	lukee	its late here, I'm calling it a night: "Its a night"
2020-10-07 23:26:20		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-07 23:42:02	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 00:21:49		StygianBlues has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-10-08 00:23:09	▬▬▶	StygianBlues has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 00:31:38		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-08 01:59:06		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-08 02:01:12		jucelo has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-08 02:28:34	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 02:30:37		jucelo has quit (Changing host)
2020-10-08 02:30:37	▬▬▶	jucelo has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 02:39:40		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-08 02:55:46	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 03:48:11		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-08 07:40:15		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-08 07:41:29		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-08 07:42:32	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 07:55:08	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 08:17:58		klu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-08 09:25:53	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 11:59:18	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 13:25:49		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-08 13:40:15	boringcactus	idk when lukee is gonna get back but https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/dotnet-gemini/tree/main/GeminiProtocol/GeminiTofuSession.cs i added a TOFU implementation to dotnet-gemini
2020-10-08 13:41:10	boringcactus	it's like 100 more lines of code than the reference implementation of that algorithm, but half of that is prob documentation
2020-10-08 13:48:12	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 13:58:12	boringcactus	unfortunately i think i have run out of hyperfocus and now am back to actively procrastinating on the work i've been avoiding all week
2020-10-08 14:16:28	login	boringcactus: if you are avoiding the work, then your heart is telling you it's not important work
2020-10-08 14:16:35	login	and your heart is probably right
2020-10-08 14:17:15	boringcactus	that's a good point, but, it's my day job
2020-10-08 14:47:55	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 14:50:59	login	boringcactus: it must be like a chore right?
2020-10-08 15:02:05	boringcactus	yeah it's paperwork
2020-10-08 15:07:36	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 15:41:07	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 16:46:29	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 16:49:10		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-08 17:22:35	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 17:36:06	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 18:00:21		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-08 18:02:01		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-08 18:03:46		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-08 18:09:44	idf	i making progress with my gemini capsule about what I like at Nim
2020-10-08 18:09:47	idf	*i am
2020-10-08 18:52:51	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 18:54:05	▬▬▶	dax has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 19:28:05		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-08 20:30:52		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-08 20:45:16	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 20:45:33	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 21:51:23		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-08 22:04:37	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 22:04:53		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-08 22:07:19	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 22:10:03	Dr-WaSabi	sweet. got GeminNaut to build and run
2020-10-08 22:10:55	acdw	nice
2020-10-08 22:18:15	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 22:18:36		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-08 22:29:51	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 22:40:29		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-08 22:56:57		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-08 22:59:39	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 23:05:49		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-08 23:07:50		peterbb has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-08 23:16:30	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 23:46:26	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-08 23:50:37		acdw2 has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-10-09 01:24:06	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 01:26:58		acdw has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by acdw2))
2020-10-09 01:26:58	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-10-09 01:27:04	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 01:28:34	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 01:29:29		acdw2 has quit (quit: See You Space Cowpokes ...)
2020-10-09 02:04:54		dax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-09 02:09:14		thefunkyspaw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-09 02:37:56	insom	got a hello-world gemini server running in Java. TLS is so awful on the JVM. .pem file? never heard of it. .jks please!
2020-10-09 02:44:51	acdw	ah nice
2020-10-09 03:09:01		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-10-09 03:30:58		insom has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-09 05:08:47	▬▬▶	dax has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 05:57:06		idf has left #gemini ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-10-09 09:45:19	zephryn	catching up on the mailing list, lots of interesting stuff there
2020-10-09 11:12:26	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 11:16:52	lukee	just been away for a day, catching up on Gemini news etc
2020-10-09 11:17:29	lukee	boringcactus: great to see your c# gemini library - I'll take a look
2020-10-09 11:18:34	lukee	Dr-Wasabi: glad to hear you were able to compile GemiNaut eventually
2020-10-09 11:54:01	kevinsan	insom: i don't think TLS is really any more awful in Java than it is elsewhere. it just has different ways of implementing the same things. it would be **much** harder without these libraries that people have provided.
2020-10-09 13:10:26	▬▬▶	therealfunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 13:24:25	mhj	oh hey
2020-10-09 13:24:36	mhj	I got Jetforce to work on NetBSD
2020-10-09 13:32:21	~tiwesdaeg	mhj: did you have issues?
2020-10-09 13:33:08	mhj	Kinda, I had to install all the dependancies one at a time almost
2020-10-09 13:33:32	mhj	Also it's a on Pi
2020-10-09 13:33:44	mhj	*On a pi
2020-10-09 13:34:22	~tiwesdaeg	that can make it a bit more difficult 
2020-10-09 13:34:43	mhj	Yup, but I love a challenge lol
2020-10-09 13:34:47	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure if the arm packages are as complete 
2020-10-09 13:35:02	mhj	They aren't, but it runs!
2020-10-09 13:35:11	~tiwesdaeg	I think I installed jetforce first on tilde.pink/netbsd
2020-10-09 13:35:35	mhj	Cool :D
2020-10-09 13:35:39	~tiwesdaeg	then mollybrown and currently gemserv
2020-10-09 13:36:03	mhj	I need to get Molly Brown running on NetBSD since I want to make it a pubnix
2020-10-09 13:36:29	~tiwesdaeg	how is go support on arm?
2020-10-09 13:37:22	mhj	It seems to be okay
2020-10-09 13:37:25	mhj	Not the best
2020-10-09 13:37:51	~tiwesdaeg	molly was a pretty easy go program to compile if I recall correctly
2020-10-09 13:38:06	★	Dr-WaSabi goes and studies the gemini spec instead of cleaning
2020-10-09 13:38:33	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 13:38:43	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 13:42:43		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-09 13:43:24	mhj	I'm basically gonna setup NetBSD with NPF, Fail2ban and key-only logins for the pubnix with Gemini support. It's been an adventure lol
2020-10-09 13:44:02	~tiwesdaeg	got a cool name yet?
2020-10-09 13:45:03	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 13:45:09	mhj	Not yet, other than I want the word SUN in it lol
2020-10-09 13:46:00	mhj	If you have any suggestions to secure NetBSD, I'm all ears
2020-10-09 13:46:14	mhj	Like, tips and tricks
2020-10-09 13:56:44		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		jlj has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		kvothe has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		klu has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		Sario has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		dodolz has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		calamitous has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		makeworld has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		aravk has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		felix has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		weeb has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:11		therealfunkyspaw has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-09 14:11:18	▬▬▶	kvothe has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:11:20	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:11:20	▬▬▶	weeb has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:11:22	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:11:43	★	Dr-WaSabi wonders if a great icon for a gemini client of an astro/cosmo-naut sitting on the pot reading the news paper would be to much?
2020-10-09 14:11:45	▬▬▶	therealfunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:11:45	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:11:45	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:11:45	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:11:53	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:12:04	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:12:39	▬▬▶	aravk has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 14:14:12	weeb	wut
2020-10-09 14:15:27	Dr-WaSabi	just odd random ideas that pop into my head
2020-10-09 14:15:29	felix	Netsplit.
2020-10-09 14:15:47	★	xfnw splits Dr-WaSabi
2020-10-09 14:16:12	Dr-WaSabi	xfnw: then there just be two of me
2020-10-09 14:17:11	ℹ 	aravk is now known as fakedrwasabi
2020-10-09 14:17:20	Dr-WaSabi	kind of like splitting your wasabi up from the little plate it comes on, and putting some on that other little plate 
2020-10-09 14:17:23	fakedrwasabi	_*and now we are undefeatable*_
2020-10-09 14:17:33	ℹ 	fakedrwasabi is now known as aravk
2020-10-09 14:17:37	★	Dr-WaSabi wonders who said that?
2020-10-09 14:17:49	Dr-WaSabi	great, another NEW voice in my head
2020-10-09 14:17:54	aravk	xD
2020-10-09 15:01:14	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 15:37:55	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 15:48:02		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-09 15:48:05		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-09 15:48:12	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 15:53:37	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 15:53:37		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-09 15:53:38	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-10-09 15:55:55	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 16:01:51		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-09 16:01:55	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 16:02:51	▬▬▶	insom has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 16:04:20	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-10-09 16:04:33		acdw has quit (quit: See You Space Cowpokes ...)
2020-10-09 16:04:43	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 16:40:40		rb100 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-09 16:42:15	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 17:32:10		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-09 17:40:07		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-09 17:42:42	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 17:48:43		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-09 17:57:40		tsp has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-09 17:58:55	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 18:05:31		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-09 18:18:38	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 18:26:25		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-09 18:28:28	▬▬▶	xj9 has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 18:29:33		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-09 19:17:58	▬▬▶	mattx has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 19:21:38	acdw	eyy mattx
2020-10-09 19:22:30	mattx	o/
2020-10-09 19:23:54	acdw	do you have any ideas on the gemini-mode thing I mentioned in #meta?
2020-10-09 19:23:58	acdw	idk if you saw that
2020-10-09 19:25:00	mattx	ehh, I don't really know how to write emacs syntax highlighting
2020-10-09 19:25:20	mattx	also https://tildegit.org/mattx/pygem here's the python gemini server
2020-10-09 19:25:20	acdw	no worries! sorry to spam you about it
2020-10-09 19:25:26	acdw	got some help around #emacs
2020-10-09 19:25:39	acdw	nice readme
2020-10-09 19:25:46	acdw	that's great lol
2020-10-09 19:25:55	acdw	you could call the server spaghet
2020-10-09 19:25:58	acdw	spagem
2020-10-09 19:26:04	acdw	gemsketti
2020-10-09 19:26:05	acdw	hm
2020-10-09 19:26:38	mattx	you can tell it's spaghetti thanks to this if chain https://tildegit.org/mattx/pygem/src/branch/master/pygem.py#L24
2020-10-09 19:27:30	acdw	oh that's a dank chain
2020-10-09 19:27:43	acdw	tho you know what? URL checking is pretty effed
2020-10-09 19:31:43	mattx	dunno, it has to do the implicit gemini://, check if the url scheme is gemini (i wonder why i did this), check if it's an attempt to proxy when proxying is disabled (twice), check for directory traversal...
2020-10-09 19:32:05	mattx	append index.gmi, check if stuff exists and actually serve it. pure spaghetti
2020-10-09 19:32:13	acdw	hey if it works it works
2020-10-09 19:32:18	acdw	spaghetti is delicious
2020-10-09 19:32:42	mattx	also no pip packages, hooray
2020-10-09 19:32:59	acdw	hehe
2020-10-09 19:34:24	mattx	anyway am tired of programming, time to browse some gemini stuff
2020-10-09 19:37:00	acdw	:)
2020-10-09 19:59:40		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-09 20:45:05	jcowan	Almost all wasabi is fake anyway
2020-10-09 20:52:54	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 21:40:56	@tomasino	and delicious
2020-10-09 21:41:34	kevinsan	now i have to seek out real wasabi! Just checked my paste and powder - 5% and 2% wasabi - eek!
2020-10-09 21:43:22	kevinsan	i now have a sushi craving
2020-10-09 22:01:20	lukee	spaghetti code := code that met the real world
2020-10-09 22:02:45	@tomasino	mmmm, spaghetti
2020-10-09 22:05:14	lukee	if you look at spaghetti close enough, each strand is perfectly straight and even
2020-10-09 22:13:50	@tomasino	but if you break it in half, it'll break into more than 2 pieces
2020-10-09 22:21:14	Dr-WaSabi	fake wasabi?
2020-10-09 22:21:17	Dr-WaSabi	what?
2020-10-09 22:21:59	Dr-WaSabi	great.. now I want sushi and spaghetti
2020-10-09 22:24:27	Dr-WaSabi	lukee: something I notice in geminaut
2020-10-09 22:25:25	Dr-WaSabi	open gemini page, click on a gemini link, change theme, click back button, old page loads along with theme changing back
2020-10-09 22:25:46	Dr-WaSabi	is that supposed to be that way?
2020-10-09 22:26:12	lukee	yes :)
2020-10-09 22:26:50	lukee	when you go back, the browser loads quickly from the cache, so it will have a cached version using the theme you used when you loaded the page
2020-10-09 22:27:09	lukee	If you press "Go" it will re-retrieve the page with the currently selected theme
2020-10-09 22:27:33	Dr-WaSabi	cool. thanks.  just wanted to ask
2020-10-09 22:28:29	@tomasino	a few clients have run with the musing solderpunk had early in the mailing list, "it would be cool if a site's theme was tied to the domain... perhaps using it's hash... so people had a visible indicator when moving from site to site"
2020-10-09 22:28:57	@tomasino	i believe castor does that too
2020-10-09 22:29:33	Dr-WaSabi	interesting
2020-10-09 22:29:48	@tomasino	kristall has an option for it called "auto-theme generation" with a light and dark mode
2020-10-09 22:30:10	lukee	otherwise Gemini is very plain to look at and you can get lost knowing where you are
2020-10-09 22:30:27	lukee	Compared to the web which has server controlled themeing
2020-10-09 22:32:21	lukee	The trick in my view is to get the right balance between UI elements that are semantic and predictable (like headings and link styles) vs themes which may be site specific.
2020-10-09 22:32:39	lukee	I dont think colours of text and links should change whenever you go to another site
2020-10-09 22:32:58	Dr-WaSabi	I guess my only problem with that as a person with really bad eye sight, I like to set a theme (darker is better for me) and not have switch on me
2020-10-09 22:33:25	Dr-WaSabi	but that might just be my problem :)
2020-10-09 22:33:51	lukee	no it is very reasonable to have your own preferences, whether they are aesthetic or for readability purposes
2020-10-09 22:34:57	lukee	I think this is one area where Gemini offers much better accessibility than the web, due to its option of client defined consistent styling
2020-10-09 22:35:53	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 22:36:59	Dr-WaSabi	yeah I have a bad habbit of blinding myself by jumping to a site that will have a really bright screen in the middle of the night
2020-10-09 22:38:18	acdw	oof yeah know that feeling
2020-10-09 22:38:22	lukee	its an interesting UI challenge for Gemini - to allow users to have customisable/selectable styles that are coherent across Gemini as a whole
2020-10-09 22:38:29	acdw	I lower my screen brightness
2020-10-09 22:38:47	lukee	yet at the same time provide a sense of "place" so you feel a transition from one site/writer to another
2020-10-09 22:39:01	Dr-WaSabi	acdw: I ended up spilling hot tea all over myself
2020-10-09 22:39:12	acdw	oh no!
2020-10-09 22:39:13	acdw	you okay?
2020-10-09 22:39:33	Dr-WaSabi	just my pride hurt
2020-10-09 22:39:51	acdw	hey better to hurt pride then to hurt body
2020-10-09 22:41:02	Dr-WaSabi	lukee: I can understand that... gives me something to think about
2020-10-09 22:41:46	@tomasino	yeah dr. at least in kristall, if you set a theme yourself it just applies globally. The auto theming is only if you enable it
2020-10-09 22:42:06	Dr-WaSabi	I like that idea
2020-10-09 22:43:36	Dr-WaSabi	I was trying to imagein what other things could be used to give a sense of place to one gemini site from another, but still retain the over all users wish on the theme of the display
2020-10-09 22:44:15	@tomasino	one of them generates programatic logos in the corner
2020-10-09 22:44:17	@tomasino	who was that?
2020-10-09 22:44:22	@tomasino	there's so many clients, i can't remember
2020-10-09 22:44:31	lukee	Have a look at the GemiNaut "fabric" theme for one idea - it includes a unique placemarker and fabric background for each site
2020-10-09 22:44:43	Dr-WaSabi	lukee: ha
2020-10-09 22:44:49	Dr-WaSabi	thats what I was thinking about
2020-10-09 22:44:52	lukee	at the same time the theme is just html/css so you can tweak it
2020-10-09 22:45:09	lukee	But at the moment it is a "light" theme, so might not be to your taste
2020-10-09 22:46:07	lukee	e.g. compare gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/geminaut/gemini_home.png with  gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/geminaut/gus_home.png
2020-10-09 22:46:18	Dr-WaSabi	but the basic idea is what I was thinking about.  I set the over all brightness of the theme, but the site can set a border color or something... oh this is starting to sound html(ish)
2020-10-09 22:46:44	lukee	surprising that :)
2020-10-09 22:46:58	Dr-WaSabi	I feel dirty now :|
2020-10-09 22:47:18	lukee	no need, it is just a possible UI implementation technology
2020-10-09 22:49:23	@tomasino	this is how more clients get made
2020-10-09 22:49:24	@tomasino	:P
2020-10-09 22:49:25	Dr-WaSabi	I once met a IBM mainframe UI developer when I was just out of college, and I looked at the guy like he was nuts when he old me how long they would debate and design where fields where and the flow between them
2020-10-09 22:50:00	Dr-WaSabi	tomasino: but in the end, wont the best bubble up to the top?
2020-10-09 22:50:09	@tomasino	eh, maybe!
2020-10-09 22:50:13	@tomasino	no harm, for sure
2020-10-09 22:50:31	Dr-WaSabi	or, roll down hill :)
2020-10-09 22:50:34	★	tomasino advocates for more original content on gemini that's not about the protocol, servers, or clients
2020-10-09 22:50:58	Dr-WaSabi	I was just going to say that.... need more content
2020-10-09 22:51:10	acdw	tomasino: Geminaut is the one with the little logo thing
2020-10-09 22:51:15	lukee	Dr-Wasabi: seeing as you have a copy of the GemiNaut repo, have a look in GemiNaut\GemiNaut\GmiConverters\Themes
2020-10-09 22:51:37	acdw	CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT
2020-10-09 22:51:41	acdw	hey I'm doing my part lol
2020-10-09 22:51:44	Dr-WaSabi	was just poking around in there a bit ago
2020-10-09 22:51:56	Dr-WaSabi	acdw: yes, thank you.  have your blog up now
2020-10-09 22:52:48	lukee	acdw: I liked the one you did called "Exit" (or similar)
2020-10-09 22:53:26	acdw	:D
2020-10-09 22:53:37	★	acdw has to look that one up actaully
2020-10-09 22:53:59	Dr-WaSabi	I can't belive that mspaint is still in windows
2020-10-09 22:55:29	acdw	yeah it's not as good
2020-10-09 22:55:33	acdw	but it's still there
2020-10-09 22:55:38	@tomasino	geminaut++
2020-10-09 22:55:48	acdw	lucidiot keeps saying they'll send me mspaint.exe from XP but i aint got it yet
2020-10-09 22:56:15	acdw	oh yeah, EXIT ... I like that one too lukee
2020-10-09 22:56:18	acdw	tanks :)
2020-10-09 22:56:43	lukee	nice use of colour (or is that "color")
2020-10-09 23:00:20	@tomasino	didn't the source for mspaint just come out?
2020-10-09 23:04:53	Dr-WaSabi	thought that was all of winxp? but maybe paint was in there
2020-10-09 23:06:13	▬▬▶	cyberia has joined #gemini
2020-10-09 23:18:51	zephryn	i have returned, hope everyone is doing well
2020-10-09 23:19:48	lukee	not bad thanks, apart from being bitten by my cat who wants to sit on my keyboard right now
2020-10-09 23:26:07	acdw	colure
2020-10-09 23:26:37	acdw	paint woulda been in there and I *was* oing to try downloading it....but then i got that other offer so
2020-10-09 23:26:40	acdw	maybe i should tho
2020-10-09 23:33:03	Dr-WaSabi	lukee: thats a cats way of saying its their keyboard and you can use when they say so
2020-10-09 23:34:01	Dr-WaSabi	acdw: just saw something in a news feed that someone got the full xp to compile and run
2020-10-09 23:34:12	acdw	oh heckyea
2020-10-09 23:34:19	acdw	v a p o r w a v e 
2020-10-09 23:35:29	lukee	at least the cat has now moved to my lap - sort of better for working
2020-10-09 23:36:04	Dr-WaSabi	warmer too
2020-10-09 23:36:07	acdw	aw
2020-10-09 23:36:08	Dr-WaSabi	acdw: https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-xp-leak-confirmed-after-user-compiles-the-leaked-code-into-a-working-os/
2020-10-09 23:36:10	acdw	sweet cat
2020-10-09 23:36:15		xj9 has left #gemini
2020-10-09 23:36:19	Dr-WaSabi	its zdnet... so who knows
2020-10-09 23:36:34	acdw	i heard it worked
2020-10-09 23:36:45	acdw	but yeah....not about to get the full force of MS on my back
2020-10-09 23:36:58	Dr-WaSabi	doesn't sound like fun
2020-10-09 23:37:13	lukee	jspaint > mspaint anyway :)
2020-10-09 23:37:38	acdw	jspaint is aight ya know
2020-10-09 23:37:53	login	yes, jspaint.app is so so awesome
2020-10-09 23:38:11	acdw	somebody oughta package that out into a desktop app
2020-10-09 23:38:15	acdw	or just .. transpile? it
2020-10-09 23:38:17	login	Never thought Windows would become open-source so fast
2020-10-09 23:38:19	login	2020
2020-10-09 23:38:20	acdw	into like. c++ or whatev
2020-10-09 23:38:22	acdw	lol
2020-10-09 23:38:41	login	Windows XP might become the most secure operating system now
2020-10-09 23:38:58	login	but i don't think many applications support anything under 7 or even 10 now
2020-10-09 23:39:03	acdw	inb4 xp is gnu/xp
2020-10-09 23:39:27	lukee	win32 is here forever
2020-10-09 23:40:05	★	Dr-WaSabi really want to go dig out his commondor 64
2020-10-09 23:40:30	Dr-WaSabi	Now Thats A Computer!
2020-10-09 23:40:38	Dr-WaSabi	:D
2020-10-09 23:41:18	login	the videohas been taken down by msft due to a "copyright claim"
2020-10-09 23:41:21	login	so it's legit!
2020-10-09 23:41:35	login	Commodore 64 is a lot like iPhone
2020-10-09 23:41:42	login	custom hardware, custom OS that runs on nothing else
2020-10-09 23:42:17	Dr-WaSabi	almost everything back then was
2020-10-09 23:43:01	Dr-WaSabi	really CP/M and the Z80 was about as open as you got
2020-10-09 23:45:06	★	Dr-WaSabi wonders how differnt things might be if Gary Kildall had signed IBM's nda and DR CP/M had become their DOS
2020-10-09 23:50:21		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-09 23:50:33	▬▬▶	kylie has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 00:35:44	Dr-WaSabi	tomasino: your not kiding about all the clients, geesh!
2020-10-10 00:36:13	@tomasino	hah
2020-10-10 00:36:14	@tomasino	yeah
2020-10-10 00:36:18	@tomasino	they're so easy to make!
2020-10-10 00:38:03		kylie has left #gemini
2020-10-10 00:45:34	Dr-WaSabi	wow... I totally get what lukee was talking about now after running the 100(ish) line python demo client.. it's very easy to lose your sense of place
2020-10-10 00:59:19		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-10 01:04:55	ℹ 	cyberia is now known as sleeperia
2020-10-10 01:26:36		dax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-10 01:34:13		fleeky has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-10-10 01:47:55		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-10 01:50:25	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 02:01:27		therealfunkyspaw has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-10 02:21:41	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 02:28:10	jcowan	Probably not that different.  DOS was very very close to CP/M-86.
2020-10-10 02:29:52	Dr-WaSabi	I was more thinking of the companies
2020-10-10 02:36:25	jcowan	I think that DR would have become the MS of its timeline.  "It steam-engines when it comes steam-engine time."
2020-10-10 02:55:41	▬▬▶	omse1 has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 02:56:15		omse1 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-10 02:56:49	zephryn	not sure if that would be a better or worse timeline to be in
2020-10-10 02:57:06	zephryn	interesting to ponder about-
2020-10-10 02:57:35		omse has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-10 03:00:08	Dr-WaSabi	yeah, stuff like that pops into my head all freaking day long
2020-10-10 03:01:51	zephryn	it's crazy to think of all the small decisions that changed things like that
2020-10-10 03:02:08	Dr-WaSabi	yup
2020-10-10 03:03:01	Dr-WaSabi	and would have gary k have drank himself to death if he had gotten that huge contract
2020-10-10 03:22:14		acdw has quit (quit: See You Space Cowpokes ...)
2020-10-10 03:22:34	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 03:28:05		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-10 03:28:20	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 03:28:42		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-10 03:28:56	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 03:31:26	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 03:34:01		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-10 03:34:16	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 03:37:01		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-10 03:37:11	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 03:40:41		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-10 03:40:48	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 03:43:05		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-10 03:56:24		siina has quit (quit: Oh no, I quit!)
2020-10-10 04:05:37	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 04:09:38		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-10 04:11:15	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 04:41:15		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-10 05:34:00	▬▬▶	notsure has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 05:50:43	▬▬▶	dax has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 08:32:29	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 11:55:05		mhj has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-10 13:00:48	ℹ 	kvothe is now known as chotrin
2020-10-10 13:02:17		chotrin has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-10 13:40:54	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 14:48:55		acdw has quit (quit: See You Space Cowpokes ...)
2020-10-10 14:49:00	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 15:01:22		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-10 15:01:27	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 15:05:27		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-10 15:44:05		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-10-10 15:44:38	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 15:59:09	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 16:29:59		jucelo has quit (quit: It's time to say goodbye, everyone.)
2020-10-10 16:32:42		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-10 16:35:25		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-10 16:39:51	ℹ 	sleeperia is now known as cyberia
2020-10-10 16:47:29	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 17:17:32	ℹ 	vulpine is now known as foxtober
2020-10-10 18:43:04		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-10 18:45:33	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 20:02:34	▬▬▶	mio has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 20:09:15		mio has left #gemini
2020-10-10 21:15:03	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 21:15:21	makeworld	Gemget v1.6.0 released! https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemget/releases/tag/v1.6.0
2020-10-10 21:15:31	makeworld	It supports client certs now, finally :)
2020-10-10 21:34:01		tastytea has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-10 21:36:39	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 21:38:52	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 22:02:50	makeworld	Is anyone implementing Dioscuri? Anyone have thoughts on it?
2020-10-10 22:15:40	lukee	hi makeworld
2020-10-10 22:16:17	lukee	I think it is a nice design - and simple like Gemini
2020-10-10 22:17:42	lukee	I started a private fork of molly-brown to try to implement dioscuri, but spent my first few hours trying to get molly brown CGI to work on Windows
2020-10-10 22:18:15	lukee	(you need some kind of dynamic server app obviously to handle the dioscuri post messages)
2020-10-10 22:18:22	lukee	thats as far as I got for now
2020-10-10 22:20:15	lukee	It calls for "half closed" connections as a way to implement some of the control flow. Not sure I fully understand how to implement that, but it might be not too difficult
2020-10-10 22:40:56		dax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-10 23:18:11	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-10 23:21:43		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-10 23:25:35		lukee_ has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-10 23:31:35	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 00:24:38		peterbb has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-11 00:51:45	epoch	dio+scuri, or diosc+uri? or dios+curi?
2020-10-11 00:52:05	epoch	oh, just one word.
2020-10-11 00:52:17	epoch	brother of castor and pollux
2020-10-11 00:52:29	epoch	or. nvm.
2020-10-11 00:52:50	epoch	dioscuri = castor + pollux
2020-10-11 00:57:43	Dr-WaSabi	before they where put into the sky and called Gemini
2020-10-11 01:04:12	epoch	well, curl is C+URL, but if it was C+URI, and you made a "godly" (or dios) version you could name it dioscuri, but preferably it'd have something to do with gemini.
2020-10-11 01:06:13	epoch	or, instead of spanish for god, italian and have it be: dio's curi
2020-10-11 02:15:47	▬▬▶	webchatter has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 02:26:14	lucidiot	dio's curry
2020-10-11 02:40:31	jcowan	I pronounce it dee-OSS-koo-ree, but Greeks, classicists, and others may have different pronunciations
2020-10-11 02:41:42	jcowan	epoch: It's etymologically Dios-kouroi, sons of Zeus
2020-10-11 02:50:40	ℹ 	cyberia is now known as sleeperia
2020-10-11 02:51:09	Dr-WaSabi	great... now I want curry
2020-10-11 03:57:42	▬▬▶	dax has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 04:05:11		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-11 04:21:57		webchatter has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-11 12:00:25	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 13:24:32	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 14:53:47		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-11 16:34:58		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-11 16:39:38	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 17:54:16		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-11 18:01:34	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 18:40:21		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-11 19:07:59		gbmor has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-11 19:10:08	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 19:13:16	ℹ 	sleeperia is now known as spideria
2020-10-11 19:34:00	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 20:26:21		alex11 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-11 22:02:18	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 22:09:25		peterbb has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-11 22:09:33	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 22:13:31	▬▬▶	peterbb_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 22:16:01		peterbb has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-11 22:16:01	ℹ 	peterbb_ is now known as peterbb
2020-10-11 22:17:23		peterbb has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-11 22:17:34	▬▬▶	peterbb has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 22:19:08		peterbb has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-11 22:54:48	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 22:56:47		mhj has quit (quit: nyaa~)
2020-10-11 23:02:46	▬▬▶	bhh has joined #gemini
2020-10-11 23:08:06		bhh has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2020-10-11 23:10:12	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 01:30:00		insom has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-12 01:31:24	▬▬▶	insom_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 01:33:05		thefunkyspaw has quit (quit: Quit)
2020-10-12 05:18:36		klu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-12 06:12:41	zephryn	hope everyone's weekends went well ^o^
2020-10-12 06:31:42	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 09:29:15	login	have you seen the movie gemini man?
2020-10-12 10:46:27	epoch	hrm. the knights who say (gemi)ni!
2020-10-12 11:11:27	login	epoch: i didn't get it
2020-10-12 11:12:28	epoch	it is an old joke from Monty Python and the Holy Grail
2020-10-12 11:13:12	epoch	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Who_Say_%22Ni!%22
2020-10-12 11:42:00	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 13:15:33	mhj	Hiyo geminauts, how're y'all?
2020-10-12 13:38:46		wgreenhouse has quit (quit: Updating details, brb)
2020-10-12 13:39:11	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 13:45:57	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 13:56:48	thefunkyspaw	Pretty good!
2020-10-12 13:57:12	thefunkyspaw	Quick question: How do you prefer to browse gemini on an android or ios device?
2020-10-12 13:58:25	mhj	Hmm, neither really haha. Mostly from the terminal for me, but I do have an iPhone
2020-10-12 13:58:49	mhj	I've not tried browsing gemini on the phone yet tho
2020-10-12 13:59:09	mhj	It sounds like it could be a somewhat tough experience
2020-10-12 13:59:44	felix	Works fine via portal.mozz.us
2020-10-12 14:00:24	thefunkyspaw	Yeah, I've been using the portal, but sometimes I can't follow links and sometimes I cant copy links. It's kind of weird.
2020-10-12 14:00:49	mhj	I just have a phone with a small screen, the iPhone XR, so I just feel like the text would be difficult to deal with in regards to links...
2020-10-12 14:01:17	mhj	But maybe a good app could fix that
2020-10-12 14:01:22	thefunkyspaw	At this point about half of my saved "gemini" links have the portal url in front of it. I'm going to have to write a parser to account for that in my bookmark system.
2020-10-12 14:02:15	thefunkyspaw	I bet there is a way to feed CAPCOM into ttrss...
2020-10-12 14:03:15	mhj	That would be interesting
2020-10-12 14:27:02	felix	It should be simpler with Liferea, it supports custom sources and filters.
2020-10-12 15:13:20		felix has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-12 15:14:16	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 15:21:20		felix has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-12 15:22:51	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 15:23:40	thefunkyspaw	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/alexschroeder.ch:1965/page/2020-09-12_Play_by_click
2020-10-12 15:23:48	thefunkyspaw	This looks cool as heck
2020-10-12 15:40:51	CoopDot	I use deedum on android
2020-10-12 15:51:27	kensanata	heh
2020-10-12 15:52:42	kensanata	gemini://alexschroeder.ch/2020-09-12_Play_by_click
2020-10-12 15:57:56	jns	that astrobotany ascii art is awesome
2020-10-12 16:23:48	thefunkyspaw	deedum is gplv3 https://github.com/snoe/deedum
2020-10-12 16:24:13	thefunkyspaw	play store link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.snoe.deedum&hl=en_GB
2020-10-12 16:24:18	thefunkyspaw	not available on android
2020-10-12 16:24:26	thefunkyspaw	I mean FDROID
2020-10-12 16:24:31	thefunkyspaw	ugh brain fog
2020-10-12 17:03:42	login	fdroid is android
2020-10-12 17:03:56	login	the play store is gandroid
2020-10-12 17:04:17	login	all android devices beholden to google play services, i call gandroid
2020-10-12 17:05:15	login	fdroid is android
2020-10-12 17:06:17		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-12 17:33:10	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 17:46:56	boringcactus	just burned like two hours trying to move https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/md2gemtext to embedding https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/md2gemini but the rust↔python interop just isn't quiiiiite powerful enough yet
2020-10-12 17:48:01	ericonr	exec(python )
2020-10-12 17:48:03	ericonr	:P
2020-10-12 17:48:50	boringcactus	ok but like
2020-10-12 17:49:24	boringcactus	if the library just shells out to python, then there's nothing the library helps with to make anything simpler
2020-10-12 17:57:51		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-12 17:58:46		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-12 18:18:15		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-12 18:28:33	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 18:45:48	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 19:24:20	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 19:27:16	boringcactus	oh but there is a middle ground: make the user install python and the library themself but then decorate the python function in more idiomatic Rust
2020-10-12 19:30:22	zephryn	i believe that there are one or two gemini clients for ios
2020-10-12 19:30:37	zephryn	both testflight though, iirc
2020-10-12 19:35:16		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-12 20:12:22	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 21:06:08		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-10-12 21:24:24		zephryn has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-12 22:20:41	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 22:23:25	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-12 22:58:30		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-12 23:04:07		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-12 23:16:58	zephryn	guess my bouncer decided to break for a moment there
2020-10-12 23:35:32	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 00:47:10	ℹ 	acdw is now known as jeffrey
2020-10-13 00:49:35	ℹ 	jeffrey is now known as acdw
2020-10-13 01:07:13		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-10-13 02:18:28		tude has left #gemini ("WeeChat 2.9")
2020-10-13 04:08:04	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 04:12:04		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-13 05:13:11		notsure has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-13 07:27:22	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 12:29:42	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 15:15:34	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 15:38:03		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-13 15:43:57	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 16:09:31		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-10-13 16:28:07		englishm has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-13 16:31:02	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 17:48:34		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-13 18:22:09	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 20:03:55	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 20:07:53	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-13 20:22:12		kensanata has left #gemini ("Killed buffer")
2020-10-14 00:51:08	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 01:11:42	ℹ 	spideria is now known as byeberia
2020-10-14 01:20:21		tildebot has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		insom_ has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		cel has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		wingy has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		lucidiot has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		wangofett has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		calmbit has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		patrick has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		login has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		appll has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		sose has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		tildebeast has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		dctrud has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		jan has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:21		mozz has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:22		jan6 has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:22		southerntofu has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:20:22		auscompgeek has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in the EFnet RBL. Please visit https://rbl.efnetrbl.org/?i=127.0.0.1 for more information.)
2020-10-14 01:36:29	zephryn	netsplit?
2020-10-14 01:41:20	acdw	i guess so? OH apparently EFnet blacklisted 127.0.0.1, so it kicked everyone off as spammers? IDK
2020-10-14 01:49:49		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-14 01:51:02	xfnw	there are a few big ip banlists called RBL's. EFnet RBL accidentally added localhost to the list and caused a bunch of people connecting via localhost to be banned (zline'ed) for a week (unless an oper un-zlines localhost lol)
2020-10-14 01:57:45	ℹ 	gbmor is now known as gbmor|jfc
2020-10-14 01:59:43	ℹ 	gbmor|jfc is now known as gbmor
2020-10-14 02:05:49		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-14 02:28:20	epoch	wew
2020-10-14 02:29:24	epoch	someone probably banned someone that was connecting to a hidden-service
2020-10-14 02:30:25	▬▬▶	insom has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:30:52	▬▬▶	calmbit has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:30:52	▬▬▶	mozz has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:30:58	▬▬▶	tildebeast has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:30:59	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:31:01	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:31:02	▬▬▶	appll has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:31:04	▬▬▶	sose has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:31:06	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:31:08	▬▬▶	lucidiot has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:31:14	▬▬▶	login has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:31:20	▬▬▶	patrick has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:33:21	▬▬▶	cel has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 02:43:16	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 03:52:03	▬▬▶	alexw8 has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 05:50:25		jns has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 05:50:25		mhj has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 05:50:25		oms has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 05:50:25		Gemino has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 05:50:25		rmgr has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 05:50:25		xq has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 05:50:25		cyrus has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 05:50:25		gohan has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 05:50:25		omni has quit (hub.tilde.chat aussie.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 05:50:29	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 05:50:33	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 05:50:42	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 05:50:42	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 05:50:59	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 05:51:47	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 05:53:26	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 05:53:26	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 06:01:07	▬▬▶	auscompgeek has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 06:13:18		alexw8 has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-14 06:45:35	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 06:45:36	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o xq] by ChanServ
2020-10-14 08:16:42		weeb has quit (quit: oh no~)
2020-10-14 08:16:50	▬▬▶	weeb has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 08:40:42		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-14 08:41:58	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 10:31:09	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 11:10:11	ℹ 	byeberia is now known as cyberia
2020-10-14 13:39:17	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 14:19:21		djph has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 14:19:21		wgreenhouse has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 14:19:21		sprung has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 14:19:21		lewiscowper has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 14:19:21		nikita has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 14:19:21		xq has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 14:19:21		jan has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 14:19:21		gohan has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 14:19:21		omni has quit (hub.tilde.chat club.tilde.chat)
2020-10-14 14:19:45	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 14:20:21	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 14:21:21	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 14:23:29	▬▬▶	djph has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 14:27:24	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 15:59:38	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 18:04:40		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-14 18:24:14		dax has left #gemini
2020-10-14 19:09:07	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 19:53:43	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 19:57:36		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-14 21:01:09	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 21:09:00	acdw	do yall know how i'd bi-host gemini & http images? Just have 2 servers point at the same thing?
2020-10-14 21:11:36	@tomasino	pretty much
2020-10-14 21:12:49	acdw	rad, thanks tomasino
2020-10-14 21:13:02	acdw	I Move Ever Closer To Just Buying A VPS
2020-10-14 21:13:07	@tomasino	symlink goodness may help if your server doesn't throw a fit over that
2020-10-14 21:14:07	acdw	oooh oooh yes indeed
2020-10-14 21:26:05		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-14 21:26:23	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 22:02:42		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-14 22:10:24		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-14 22:10:30	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 22:41:52	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-14 22:58:37		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-14 23:31:03	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 01:16:56		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-10-15 01:32:58		fleeky has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-15 02:15:01	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-10-15 02:15:38	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 02:15:38	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-10-15 02:15:38	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-10-15 02:15:38	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 102 nicks (3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 99 normals)
2020-10-15 02:15:38	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-10-15 02:16:16	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-10-15 07:55:19	▬▬▶	pentangle1 has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 11:02:04	▬▬▶	sprung has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 13:09:00	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 13:35:51	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 13:54:31	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 14:46:27	jan6	yeehraw
2020-10-15 14:47:02	felix	Ooh?
2020-10-15 14:47:11	jan6	nothin'
2020-10-15 14:47:17	jan6	lol
2020-10-15 14:55:21		jlj has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-15 14:55:21		Sario has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-15 14:55:21		dodolz has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-15 14:55:21		calamitous has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-15 14:55:21		fleeky has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-15 14:55:21		aravk has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-15 14:55:21		felix has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-15 14:55:21		weeb has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-15 14:55:21		omni has quit (hub.tilde.chat ctrl-c.tilde.chat)
2020-10-15 14:55:24	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 14:55:37	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 14:55:55	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 14:55:55	▬▬▶	jlj has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 14:55:55	▬▬▶	Sario has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 14:56:01	▬▬▶	weeb has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 14:56:03	▬▬▶	calamitous has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 14:56:09	▬▬▶	dodolz has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 14:59:55		thefunkyspaw has quit (quit: Quit)
2020-10-15 15:00:24	▬▬▶	aravk has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 15:02:10	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 15:10:52	ℹ 	tildebot is now known as fuck
2020-10-15 15:13:12	ℹ 	fuck is now known as tildebot
2020-10-15 15:19:53		dodolz has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-10-15 15:44:43	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 15:55:52		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-15 16:22:21		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-15 17:21:15		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-10-15 17:22:37	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 17:34:14		boringcactus has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-15 17:34:21	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 17:34:39		boringcactus has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-15 17:34:46	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 17:44:51		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-15 17:59:03		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-15 18:02:40		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-15 18:34:27		ben has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-15 18:37:12	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 18:37:12	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-10-15 18:50:32		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-15 19:07:30	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 19:16:30		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-15 19:21:15	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 19:25:02	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 19:28:17		paper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-15 19:28:28	▬▬▶	paper has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 19:58:57		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-15 20:01:43	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 20:58:05		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-15 21:39:40		thefunkyspaw has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-15 21:59:28	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 22:04:26	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 22:31:43	ℹ 	acdw is now known as hunter6
2020-10-15 22:34:01		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-15 22:41:26	ℹ 	irc: disconnected from server
2020-10-15 22:42:08	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 22:42:08	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-10-15 22:42:08	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-10-15 22:42:08	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 103 nicks (3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 100 normals)
2020-10-15 22:42:08	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-10-15 22:42:46	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-10-15 22:51:52	ℹ 	acdw is now known as bowser
2020-10-15 22:53:18	ℹ 	bowser is now known as acdw
2020-10-15 22:57:53		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-15 23:06:00		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-15 23:07:17	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 23:20:25	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 23:25:26		makeworld has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-15 23:27:30	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-15 23:30:20	ℹ 	makeworld is now known as makeworled
2020-10-15 23:30:23	ℹ 	makeworled is now known as makeworld
2020-10-16 01:40:29	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 01:40:43		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 01:41:54	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 01:48:00	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 02:32:46		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 03:08:43		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-16 06:29:36	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 07:25:42		keegan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 08:20:43		sandra has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 08:30:55	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 08:32:14	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 09:00:18		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 09:01:34	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 10:56:59		keegan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 11:06:58	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 11:18:47		keegan has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-16 11:19:23	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 11:38:09	▬▬▶	mink has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 11:56:34		thefunkyspaw has quit (quit: Quit)
2020-10-16 12:38:05	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 12:45:01	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 13:19:02	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 13:20:04		keegan has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-16 13:20:29	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 14:11:21	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 14:18:05		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 14:50:47		keegan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 14:56:50		mink has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-16 14:58:40	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 15:10:57		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 15:14:32	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 15:17:45		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 15:17:52	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 15:22:52	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 15:22:54	▬▬▶	nikita1 has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 15:26:40		nikita has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 15:31:08		keegan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 15:50:41	▬▬▶	nikita2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 15:55:33		nikita2 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 15:58:13	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 15:58:23	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 16:02:28		keegan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 16:10:54		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 16:13:44	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 16:19:07		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 16:20:07	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 16:22:07		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 16:29:17		nikita1 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 16:29:25	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 16:30:56		nikita has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-16 16:31:05	▬▬▶	nikita has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 16:38:59		nikita has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 17:15:58	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 17:21:47		keegan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 17:48:48	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 18:25:23		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-16 18:31:01		lrb has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 18:31:01		Ekkie has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-16 18:31:02		vee has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-16 18:31:02		creme has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2020-10-16 18:31:02		noxzed has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-16 18:33:49	▬▬▶	creme has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 18:34:22	▬▬▶	vee has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 18:37:00	▬▬▶	Ekkie has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 19:00:09		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-16 19:15:42		keegan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 19:22:01	▬▬▶	lewiscowper has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 19:24:23	▬▬▶	keegan has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 20:29:07		keegan has quit (quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1))
2020-10-16 20:50:45	jcowan	What's the usual approach to representing plain lines in text/gemini if you want them to actually begin with => or ```?
2020-10-16 20:53:38	@tomasino	add a space
2020-10-16 20:58:59	jcowan	Makes sense, I guess, but will make the left margin look ragged.  I suppose you could use an invisible Unicode character (there are plenty), assuming they don't become tofu for some people.
2020-10-16 21:00:45		thefunkyspaw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-16 21:01:01	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 21:07:37	jcowan	U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE should be perfect, but at least some fonts show it as a space anyway.
2020-10-16 21:20:10	kevinsan	i wonder if monospaced fonts are compelled to show it with fixed width regardless?
2020-10-16 21:23:12	xfnw	my monospaced fonts show zero width spaces with zero-width
2020-10-16 21:23:59	kevinsan	xfnw: are these fonts you designed, or fonts you use?
2020-10-16 21:24:07	xfnw	the ones i use
2020-10-16 21:24:18	xfnw	lol i wish i could design fonts
2020-10-16 21:25:20	kevinsan	you know, monospace a little less complex. anyway, interesting to know about the zero-spaced thing
2020-10-16 21:27:40	jcowan	In practice you can't pack Chinese characters into mono, though you can display them in diwidth instead.'
2020-10-16 21:28:44		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 21:31:48	kevinsan	that's also curious
2020-10-16 21:32:04	kevinsan	chinese writing looks kind of inherently monospaced
2020-10-16 21:32:51	kevinsan	is it that there are too many variations to represent as an exhaustive list in unicode?
2020-10-16 21:35:49	jcowan	Chinese writing is square, whereas western monospace is rectangles taller than their width.
2020-10-16 21:36:20	jcowan	but if you make the western characters half a square vertically, then two of them will hold a Chinese character nicely
2020-10-16 21:36:47	jcowan	I'm not sure what you mean by "too many variations"
2020-10-16 21:41:21	kevinsan	oh, ok. i see now, thanks. the variations thing can be ignored (had been thinking glyphs might be getting combined to make a single character)
2020-10-16 21:46:36	jcowan	There are characters for strokes, but those are used when talking about strokes.  And there is a system that Unicode covers for writing things like "left half is X, middle is Y, bottom is Z" but those are rendered as sequences, not as single glyphs.
2020-10-16 22:20:17	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 22:54:08	sandra	jcowan: that's kind of a FAQ in here but there is no good answer. Gemini can't quine. A flaw in it. You can use ``` for => though
2020-10-16 22:54:25	jcowan	Thanks.
2020-10-16 22:54:27	sandra	I mean quine isn't the right word
2020-10-16 22:54:39	sandra	BTW I am snan from freenode
2020-10-16 22:54:56	sandra	s/from/on
2020-10-16 22:55:01	jcowan	I figured, on both counts.
2020-10-16 22:56:05	jcowan	I've been thinking about enhancing av98 to do gopher too, by translating gopher menus into text/gemini format as soon as they are loaded.  But translating text/plain is not quite so easy.  Still, it may not be necessary.
2020-10-16 22:56:50	sandra	Please make sure AV98 users don't go on gopher accidentally. That's a problem with elpher already
2020-10-16 22:56:56	sandra	♥♥
2020-10-16 22:57:38	★	sandra is a li'l bit scared of gopher
2020-10-16 22:58:07		thefunkyspaw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-16 22:58:23	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 23:00:23	sandra	I'm so bad for Gemini, I'm realizing
2020-10-16 23:01:03	sandra	I have a li'l bit different perspective on it
2020-10-16 23:01:26	sandra	Uh. Lexical repetition. Sign that I should sleep some
2020-10-16 23:06:02	▬▬▶	lyntsune has joined #gemini
2020-10-16 23:17:28	@tomasino	hiya sandra
2020-10-16 23:17:59	@tomasino	jcowan: av98 already has vf-1 for gopher
2020-10-16 23:18:06	@tomasino	av98 was built from vf1, in fact
2020-10-16 23:18:33	@tomasino	solderpunk has them seperate on purpose, but vf1 can use his agena helper thing to browse gemini if you want
2020-10-16 23:19:01	@tomasino	here's the source: https://github.com/solderpunk/VF-1
2020-10-16 23:19:55	@tomasino	and here's his phlog post about the whole breakdown - gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space/0/%7esolderpunk/phlog/vf1-av98-and-agena.txt
2020-10-16 23:37:37		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-16 23:51:38	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 00:05:22		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-17 00:10:04	jcowan	I'm aware of vf1 (in fact I am cannibalizing it), but I'd like a browser that can do both.
2020-10-17 00:16:40	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 00:58:30	sandra	Hi tomasino. I slept a little
2020-10-17 00:58:48	sandra	Almoat wrote "a li'l bit" again
2020-10-17 00:59:18	sandra	Maybe my brain has that phrase installed as the equivalent of some Swedish word
2020-10-17 01:08:37	sprung	yup
2020-10-17 01:21:22	sandra	One of my big regrets in life is doing polyphasic sleep
2020-10-17 01:22:07	sandra	The upside is I have a lot of time, the downside is I don't feel rested
2020-10-17 03:03:54		Gemino has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-17 03:05:57		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-17 03:06:56		doppler has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-17 03:09:46	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 03:11:31	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 03:34:16	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 03:45:16		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-17 04:49:08		wangofett has quit (quit: night all)
2020-10-17 08:16:37		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-17 08:18:55	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 11:51:03	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 11:58:08	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 11:58:16	idf	hello
2020-10-17 11:59:24	felix	o/
2020-10-17 11:59:53	idf	can i ask for some opinions on one of my post
2020-10-17 12:03:16	felix	Sure!
2020-10-17 12:03:23	felix	Can't promise to have one.
2020-10-17 12:04:18	idf	gemini://idf.looting.uk/capslog/nim-imo.gemini
2020-10-17 12:04:34	idf	i might add it to the capcom feed soon
2020-10-17 12:07:23	felix	Sounds good!
2020-10-17 12:09:18	idf	thanks
2020-10-17 12:09:34	felix	The things that matter to you, that's what should go in a review.
2020-10-17 12:09:54	felix	I tried Nim briefly at some point, too, but gave up soon.
2020-10-17 12:10:07	felix	Struck me as a huge, complex language.
2020-10-17 12:10:28	idf	well I tried to list up the things that matter to me and explain them in a somewhat objective manner so it doesn't sound like an ad
2020-10-17 12:10:49	felix	Eh, nothing wrong with praising things.
2020-10-17 12:10:57	idf	ofc
2020-10-17 12:11:07	felix	If you had any connection with the project, it would be nice to disclose it, is all.
2020-10-17 12:11:56	idf	other than some commits and PRs and being friends with few key people i dont really have any connections with the project
2020-10-17 12:12:07	felix	Oh, nice!
2020-10-17 12:12:14	felix	Ironically, in recent months I started realizing just how big and complex Python is.
2020-10-17 12:12:59	idf	everything is big and complex if you think a lot about it
2020-10-17 12:13:39	felix	Not to the same degree.
2020-10-17 12:13:48	idf	fair
2020-10-17 12:14:04	felix	There's that feeling that you can master something if you give it more time.
2020-10-17 12:14:29	felix	But of course it's relative and subjective.
2020-10-17 12:15:45	idf	indeed
2020-10-17 12:17:30	idf	recently i didn't really have any time(or inspiration) to be more involved with gemini stuff, but now I might start writing more posts, just to atleast share some opinions
2020-10-17 12:18:15	idf	I also have to organise the capslog dir index page a bit better, emacs keeps putting swap files there :p
2020-10-17 12:19:06	felix	Sounds good!
2020-10-17 12:19:30	felix	Oh, my own review of Nim from a few years ago is more involved than I remembered.
2020-10-17 13:15:28	idf	btw also added a list of users hosted on my hosting capsule
2020-10-17 13:29:23	felix	Good work!
2020-10-17 13:34:14	idf	thanks
2020-10-17 13:34:47	idf	I really like how the hosting is going until now, it never went down and it's been running for a while
2020-10-17 13:35:08	idf	i also find the content hosted interesting
2020-10-17 13:36:01	felix	Glad to hear it!
2020-10-17 14:06:05	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 14:22:53	felix	\o
2020-10-17 14:25:29	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 14:34:57	felix	o/
2020-10-17 15:54:07		lel has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		klu has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		benoliver999 has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		oms has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		CoopDot has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		gbmor has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		apaper has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		enpo has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		tastytea has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		ehmry has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		epoch has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		cyrus has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		sandra has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 15:54:07		zephryn has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-17 16:01:37		Cadey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-17 16:05:10	▬▬▶	Cadey has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	apaper has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	cyrus has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:05:38	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:09:34	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 16:56:56		rb100 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-17 17:08:28		CommunistWolf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-17 17:10:36	▬▬▶	CommunistWolf has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 17:21:03	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 18:24:57		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-17 20:16:01	ℹ 	apaper is now known as paper_
2020-10-17 21:33:11	zephryn	o/
2020-10-17 21:47:36		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-17 21:47:40	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 21:50:24	idf	\o/
2020-10-17 22:05:29	zephryn	happy saturday
2020-10-17 22:14:26		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-17 22:14:45	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 22:55:00		thefunkyspaw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-17 22:55:17	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-17 22:59:17		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-18 00:38:58		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-18 01:08:23		doppler has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-18 01:56:23		tejr has quit (quit: rebooting)
2020-10-18 02:06:36	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 02:20:10	▬▬▶	alex_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 02:21:34		alex11 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-18 02:25:12	ℹ 	alex_ is now known as alex11
2020-10-18 02:34:26		Gemino has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-18 02:36:27	▬▬▶	Gemino has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 03:13:15	▬▬▶	magni has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 08:31:37	▬▬▶	Avalon has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 09:40:39		aravk has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-18 09:45:22	▬▬▶	aravk has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 13:44:53	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 14:03:48	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 15:47:06	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 16:41:41	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 17:48:11		rmgr has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-10-18 17:50:29	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 17:56:03		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-18 21:59:00	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-18 22:33:18		swinslow has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-19 00:47:25	▬▬▶	lick has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 00:47:47		lick has quit (quit: oops)
2020-10-19 01:32:29		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-19 02:43:05		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-19 04:54:32	▬▬▶	alexw has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 04:57:12	▬▬▶	alexw1 has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 05:44:20		epoch has quit (quit: shs)
2020-10-19 07:16:24		alexw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-19 13:03:59	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 14:07:21	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 14:42:49	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 15:27:58	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 15:55:23		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-19 16:23:56		alex11 has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-19 16:37:54	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 17:23:32	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 17:50:58		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-19 18:05:22		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-10-19 18:34:06	▬▬▶	alexw has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 18:38:17		alexw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-19 19:02:46		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-19 19:19:24	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 20:19:53	ℹ 	cyberia is now known as spideria
2020-10-19 20:40:14	▬▬▶	alexw has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 21:15:55		alexw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-19 21:25:13	▬▬▶	alexw has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 21:43:12		thefunkyspaw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-19 22:28:44	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 23:13:29	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 23:13:29	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-10-19 23:13:29	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-10-19 23:13:29	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 108 nicks (3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 105 normals)
2020-10-19 23:13:29	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-10-19 23:13:56	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-10-19 23:23:19		tejr has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-19 23:24:06	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 23:24:16		alexw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-19 23:29:03	▬▬▶	alexw has joined #gemini
2020-10-19 23:58:27		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-20 00:36:59		thefunkyspaw has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-20 00:39:28	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 01:47:02		alexw has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-10-20 02:43:30		tastytea has quit (quit: Gateway shutdown)
2020-10-20 02:44:33	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 04:14:14		wangofett has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-20 06:09:57	▬▬▶	therealfunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 06:14:05		therealfunkyspaw has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-20 06:58:46	▬▬▶	jan has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 07:23:42		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 07:27:18	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 08:49:53	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 09:17:14		seisatsu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 09:18:48	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 11:24:15		xq has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 11:25:10	▬▬▶	xq has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 11:25:11	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o xq] by ChanServ
2020-10-20 11:25:59		idf has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 12:08:31	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 13:17:15		jcowan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 13:17:17	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 13:17:36		griffin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 13:17:38	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 13:17:39		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 13:17:42	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 13:25:04		englishm has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 13:27:22	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 14:27:55	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 16:06:34		admicos has quit (quit: cya)
2020-10-20 17:04:18		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 17:04:41	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 17:32:20	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 18:18:05		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-20 18:18:57		jrhorn424 has quit (quit: )
2020-10-20 19:03:17	▬▬▶	admicos has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 19:13:54	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 19:16:44	nixo	Hi people! I discovered gemini yesterday and I really like the idea behind. I like the idea of the 10 response (ask user input) and I was wondering whether multi-line input has been considered as an option
2020-10-20 19:18:39	nixo	I'm referring to "3.2.1" where it says "The requested resource accepts a line of textual user input". I'd like to implement something like "blog comments" (and for this 60/client side certificate is wonderful) but I'd like the comment to be in text/gemini too
2020-10-20 19:20:45	admicos	while i'm not sure on what the view on multiline input is (afaik the input is being sent as the url query parameter today) there were a push for a new companion protocol called "titan" for text input (or was it just for documents, can't really remember) so you might want to look at that
2020-10-20 19:21:03	admicos	otherwise, putting your email at the end of your pages and receiving comments there is an option :)
2020-10-20 19:24:59	nixo	admicos: Thanks, I found this https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan that seems to be what you are talking about
2020-10-20 19:39:05	nixo	I don't like the idea that much -.- gemini can already manage authentication, and that should be re-implemented in another (titan) server.. not sure it really simplifies things
2020-10-20 19:44:01	boringcactus	ok this is almost certainly terrible but
2020-10-20 19:44:22	boringcactus	you could do multi-line input one line at a time
2020-10-20 19:45:25	nixo	boringcactus: yes that was my first idea, but I thought that maybe I'm not the only one that would like this multiline "feature"
2020-10-20 19:46:17	boringcactus	i mean, you could write it as a couple CGI scripts and offer em up for people
2020-10-20 19:47:26	CoopDot	One could pick another character to act as a new-line character
2020-10-20 19:49:48	nixo	CoopDot: this looks bad in the input field, and also there's the 1024 bytes hard limit (as data is coded in the url query)
2020-10-20 19:58:40	nixo	I have to go, thanks everybody, see you!
2020-10-20 19:59:45		nixo has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-20 20:09:20		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-20 20:19:53	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 20:39:08		bard has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-20 20:49:25	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 20:49:58	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 20:50:16	lukee	evening all
2020-10-20 20:51:17	lukee	nixo: the input 10 response is all percent encoded, so there is nothing actually preventing any client from including newlines in the submitted content. 
2020-10-20 20:51:44	lukee	by convention, it is usually a line of text, but it doesnt have to be. Any character can be included
2020-10-20 20:52:55	lukee	A harder problem is that the 10 response type is submitted as a URL parameter. That means it is not really suited for submitting content to a server as an update. It is really for query paramaters and search mainly
2020-10-20 20:54:30	lukee	so the gemini 10 response is really like HTTP GET, and also as such is liable to be replayed if the URL is persisted anywhere - as URLs often are
2020-10-20 20:56:12	lukee	Gemini doesnt have the equivalent of POST at the moment, the best concept for that I've seen is the dioscuri proposal
2020-10-20 20:59:22	lukee	see gemini://rawtext.club/~sloum/geminilist/002792.gmi and linked discussion on the list (also in the archives for this IRC channel)
2020-10-20 21:02:56	lukee	(just spotted nixo already left the channel but maybe they will read the archive when they rejoin)
2020-10-20 21:03:05		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 21:03:21	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 21:15:02	lukee	...and as quietly as he came, he departed...
2020-10-20 21:15:07	lukee	good night all!
2020-10-20 21:15:13		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-20 21:23:55		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-20 21:26:37	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 22:37:59	▬▬▶	zce has joined #gemini
2020-10-20 22:38:54		zce has left #gemini ("WeeChat 2.9")
2020-10-21 00:13:33		fleeky has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-21 01:15:31	▬▬▶	therealfunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 01:16:13		therealfunkyspaw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-21 01:31:17	▬▬▶	theoriginalfunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 01:31:32		theoriginalfunkyspaw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-21 01:44:51		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-21 01:47:46	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 02:22:27		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-21 02:45:05	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 03:19:54		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-21 03:23:39	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 04:16:39		jns has quit (quit: Poof!)
2020-10-21 04:17:19	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 04:26:40		jns has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-21 04:30:19	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 04:35:34		jns has quit (quit: Poof!)
2020-10-21 04:46:58	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 04:51:02		jns has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-21 04:53:11	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 04:57:15		jns has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-21 05:04:22	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 05:08:38		jns has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-21 05:08:46	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 05:13:02		jns has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-21 05:13:47		raiz has quit (quit: EOF)
2020-10-21 05:18:23	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 06:11:01	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 07:28:29	raiz	it is stated in 5.5.1 about heading lines that # is like <h1>, ## is like <h2>, ### is like <h3>, however, does it go further till <h6>?
2020-10-21 07:32:35	boringcactus	iirc no, three is as far as the spec defines
2020-10-21 07:32:57	boringcactus	nothing stopping you from just using more though
2020-10-21 07:34:24	raiz	wouldn't want to use nonstandard formatting, I was just wondering, because the spec wasn't clear about that
2020-10-21 07:34:45	raiz	3 is enough for most use cases anyway
2020-10-21 07:41:43	pentangle1	is therea gemini directory anywhere? I have a few bookmarks but I'm curious about what else might be out theere
2020-10-21 07:52:19	CoopDot	gemini://gus.guru/known-hosts
2020-10-21 09:42:48	raiz	while headings and links treat following <whitespace> as optional, I'm assuming unordered lists do not, because the spec says lines beginning with "* " are items of unordered lists in 5.5.2, noting that "* " is quoted with a following whitespace, and I'm also going to assume that quote lines defined in 5.5.3 treat following whitespace as part of the quote since the spec says ">"
2020-10-21 09:42:48	raiz	without following whitespace, are these assumptions correct?
2020-10-21 09:47:08	sandra	The spec needs some tightening up there
2020-10-21 09:49:12	raiz	I'm going to go with my assumptions, I think it is correct to assume that "* " and ">" are both meant to be treated literally, I just wanted to be sure
2020-10-21 09:49:43	sandra	Quotes can have a space
2020-10-21 09:51:26	raiz	since the spec says ">" and not "> ", I'm going to assume that anything after > is part of the quote
2020-10-21 09:51:28	sandra	This is being discussed on the mailing list. Thread title: "Optional/mandatory whitespace in §5.5 Advanced line types" around sept tenth, 13th somewhen around then
2020-10-21 09:52:07	sandra	Please do remove the first space, if present, after the >
2020-10-21 09:52:34	raiz	I'm not writing anything, I'm implementing a parser, that's why I'm so careful
2020-10-21 09:53:36	sandra	Please have your parser count the first space, if present, after the > as part of the syntax and not as part of the quoted text. Thank you.
2020-10-21 09:54:27	raiz	alright then
2020-10-21 09:54:52	raiz	in that case, I believe the spec should be updated to clarify that, because ">" != "> "
2020-10-21 10:42:26	pentangle1	CoopDot: I appreciate it, but that's giving me a hostname does not match error
2020-10-21 10:57:45	raiz	works fine for me
2020-10-21 10:59:29		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-21 11:21:43	CoopDot	Try another browser. Works for me in Kristal, Castor and Deedum
2020-10-21 11:30:27	raiz	what would be the standard line separator for text/gemini? 5.3 doesn't specify that
2020-10-21 11:30:57	raiz	should I accept all cases of singe \r and single \n and \r\n
2020-10-21 12:04:53	CoopDot	The lazy way to do it is to hope no one uses (stand alone) \r, break row at \n and just ignore \r when encountering \r\n
2020-10-21 12:05:50	raiz	oh
2020-10-21 12:06:11	raiz	too late, I've got my parser to handle all cases
2020-10-21 12:06:22	CoopDot	This was discussed on the mailinglist but I can't look it up right now
2020-10-21 12:07:34	CoopDot	Handling all cases is better
2020-10-21 12:19:47		thefunkyspaw has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-10-21 12:23:02	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 12:23:02	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-10-21 12:40:29	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 12:58:38	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 13:13:43	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 13:24:31	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 13:37:10	raiz	wow, a fully working gemini parser in one day, time to test the hell outta this thing :)
2020-10-21 13:37:27	raiz	I also made the whitespace after * not mandatory
2020-10-21 13:37:56	raiz	because it is still unclear to me, I just wanted to make sure
2020-10-21 13:38:34	@tomasino	the spec is lagging a tiny bit on an official decision on that
2020-10-21 13:39:11	raiz	my reason for not liking that is perhaps someone wants to start a line with *blah blah
2020-10-21 13:39:14	raiz	for whatever reason
2020-10-21 13:39:39	raiz	I initially assumed "* " suggested whitespace is necessary
2020-10-21 13:39:54	raiz	but as others suggested, I should support not having it
2020-10-21 13:39:58	raiz	so I did
2020-10-21 13:40:08	@tomasino	mostly it's to avoid people that are using *bold* markup, which isn't in the spec, but is common
2020-10-21 13:40:19	@tomasino	*this* shouldn't be a list, in some minds
2020-10-21 13:41:37	@tomasino	following that, many people were saying that it would be best if we were consistent and the optional space was mandatory on all those starting tags
2020-10-21 13:42:06	@tomasino	the downside of that is the ### heading, as you'd have to read the first 4 characters to catch the space instead of only 3, which was actually an issue brought up on the ML
2020-10-21 13:42:15	@tomasino	i'm staying out of this one. :)
2020-10-21 13:42:31	raiz	after working on this project, I think I'm gonna propose some clarifications to the spec
2020-10-21 13:42:52	raiz	I'm generally happy with having handled all the unclear cases in my implementation
2020-10-21 13:43:05	raiz	it doesn't add much complexity but it's just unclear, that's it
2020-10-21 13:43:16	raiz	but if this was HTML, I'd be still working on this
2020-10-21 13:43:17	@tomasino	clarity recommendations are good
2020-10-21 13:43:34	@tomasino	especially if you can make those recommendations in a way that simplifies the spec
2020-10-21 13:43:48	raiz	the format is very clean, I'm happy with it
2020-10-21 14:19:25		raiz has quit (quit: rebooting ze box heeeeeeeeee!)
2020-10-21 14:22:14	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 14:28:28	felix	o/
2020-10-21 15:14:07	★	raiz waves
2020-10-21 15:14:34	dkibi	I'm a (tiny)bid sadded that people don't just come up with new tag marker and bold markup
2020-10-21 15:27:49	felix	Inline markup would be very much against the spirit of Gemini.
2020-10-21 15:31:48	dkibi	how so? ASCII art is very much in the spirit, I don't see how emphasizing stuff with extra characters should not be
2020-10-21 15:32:06	dkibi	of course having a standardized markup which is/has to be interpreted by clients is
2020-10-21 15:32:42	felix	The whole point with gemtext is that you can parse it by looking at the first three characters of each line.
2020-10-21 15:32:55	felix	That's the guiding principle.
2020-10-21 15:33:59	felix	We discuss often enough potential additions within these limits.
2020-10-21 15:35:45	dkibi	yeah I'm aware. I'm talking about text markers for readers not for client. just like I can *emphasize* something in IRC.
2020-10-21 15:36:49	dkibi	what I mean is: if * as a convention for emphasizing something doesn't work in gemtext, I would have thought maybe it's nicer to come up with a new convention instead of adapting the standard
2020-10-21 15:37:17	@tomasino	i think a few clients are adding * and _ support for in-line markup anyway, in excess of the spec
2020-10-21 15:38:46	@tomasino	what's interesting to me is that in irc and thunderbird and several places yuo get *bold* as practice in conflict with markdown
2020-10-21 15:39:07	@tomasino	what's underline vs bold vs italic isn't that standard
2020-10-21 15:40:10	dkibi	oh right, that markdown does that differently always catches me off guard
2020-10-21 15:41:21	dkibi	I'm a bit saddened that I didn't keep up with the gemspace recently. but those days I find myself with a bit more time at my hands so I hope travel in it more ^^
2020-10-21 15:41:38	@tomasino	since it's something that could be left as-is by clients or optionally styled i don't really have an opinion about where that belongs. inline links i'm very-much against, though. Perhaps inline styling is seen as a slippery slope
2020-10-21 15:44:49	dkibi	did any of the many proposed optional extensions catch on so far. or can I enjoy gemini space with a client from April as much as back then?
2020-10-21 15:46:07	raiz	any inline styling that isn't defined by the standard can be misinterpreted because people would refer to the spec when writing gemtext and wouldn't take into consideration that such thing exists
2020-10-21 15:46:43	raiz	*foo* could literally mean anything depending on the context, not just emphasis
2020-10-21 15:48:54	dkibi	hm I personally see it something akin to exclamation marks or brackets: a convention of the human language
2020-10-21 15:57:04	jcowan	IMO having bold inline is a very bad idea (except when quoting Oscan inscriptions in Latin transliteration).  Bold is a structural component, because it draws the eyes to it before any other element of the text.
2020-10-21 18:18:28		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-21 18:39:55		weeb has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-21 19:23:41	▬▬▶	idf has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 20:02:29		alex11 has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-21 20:36:41	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 21:29:45	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 22:40:57		doppler has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-21 22:41:50	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 22:57:22		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-21 23:28:22		fleeky has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-10-21 23:28:32	▬▬▶	weeb has joined #gemini
2020-10-21 23:58:27	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 00:02:40		wangofett has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-22 00:39:14	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 00:39:28		acdw has quit (quit: bye everybody)
2020-10-22 00:39:50	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 01:03:55		acdw has quit (quit: bye, love you)
2020-10-22 01:04:40		thefunkyspaw has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by therealfunkyspaw))
2020-10-22 01:04:40	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 01:04:46	▬▬▶	therealfunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 01:08:04		therealfunkyspaw has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-10-22 03:05:23		tejr has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-22 03:06:10	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 03:07:34		wingy has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-22 03:07:48	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 03:21:06	ℹ 	sose is now known as sose-
2020-10-22 03:26:37	ℹ 	sose- is now known as sose
2020-10-22 03:31:42	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 03:59:23		wangofett has quit (quit: succumbing to the siren of the silent syncope)
2020-10-22 04:21:38		cyrus has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-22 04:26:31		alex11 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-22 04:28:02	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 06:25:56		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-22 06:26:12	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 06:26:13	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-10-22 06:31:01	▬▬▶	zce has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 08:00:22		julienxx has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-22 09:08:17		klu has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-10-22 09:08:25	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 09:09:06		oms has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-22 09:09:21	▬▬▶	oms has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 10:26:24	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 10:26:25	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-10-22 12:22:52	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 12:27:14		raiz has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-22 13:15:21	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 13:18:06	felix	\o
2020-10-22 13:19:52	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 13:30:21	jns	o/
2020-10-22 13:33:56	raiz	o/
2020-10-22 13:36:00	Dr-WaSabi	¯\(°_o)/¯
2020-10-22 13:38:33	jcowan	ooOOOOOoo
2020-10-22 13:42:04	★	felix laughs
2020-10-22 13:49:00	tildebeast	is anyone here using bombadillo? all of a sudden i'm getting a 'no matching certificate found' error for some sites that work without warning in other browsers...
2020-10-22 13:53:54	felix	I can try them for you.
2020-10-22 14:41:59	jcowan	Does anyone know how to talk to Agena from random Gemini clients?  I have an Agena instance running on localhost with a cert I created just for that, but I don't know what Gemini URL to specify.  I tried the obvious gemini://localhost/gopher://gopher.floodgap.com with no luck -- Lagrange just hangs.
2020-10-22 15:00:32	tildebeast	felix: pls could you try gemini://envs.net ?
2020-10-22 15:01:36	felix	It gets stuck at the "Loading..." message.
2020-10-22 15:02:07	felix	While Amfora says right away the cert is expired.
2020-10-22 15:02:21	tildebeast	interesting
2020-10-22 15:02:21	felix	Oh, Bombadillo loaded it in the end.
2020-10-22 15:02:40	felix	Wait, no, it's still stuck.
2020-10-22 15:03:07	felix	In fact it needed a Ctrl-C. :D
2020-10-22 15:03:12	raiz	can someone recommend me a gemini server?
2020-10-22 15:03:17	tildebeast	hmm. i saw a line of red text come and go in amfora but couldn't read it in time
2020-10-22 15:03:21	tildebeast	but then it loaded...
2020-10-22 15:03:34	tildebeast	raiz: molly brown works well (at least on mine)
2020-10-22 15:04:40	raiz	can't find it in gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/, could you link to where I can get it?
2020-10-22 15:05:42	raiz	I'm just wondering if there's a geminid implementation that the majority of the community runs, that'd be the most reliable
2020-10-22 15:05:57	idf	hi
2020-10-22 15:06:11	ericonr	tildebeast: I managed to load it here
2020-10-22 15:06:22	tildebeast	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/molly-brown
2020-10-22 15:06:34	tildebeast	thanks ericonr 
2020-10-22 15:07:23	tildebeast	it wasn't just that site -- quite a few had the same thing. Including my own as-yet unannounced server that I have verified has up-to-date certs via Letsencrypt. Odd...
2020-10-22 15:09:33	raiz	hey this seems great, generally most go libraries out there aren't great, I like how this has almost no dependencies, and I like that it has openbsd init scripts, that's nice
2020-10-22 15:09:49	raiz	thanks tildebeast 
2020-10-22 15:10:44	tildebeast	np raiz. what OS are you looking to run it on?
2020-10-22 15:10:58	raiz	openbsd
2020-10-22 15:11:17	tildebeast	i think there are some notes on the git readme then
2020-10-22 15:11:23	raiz	yeah, I read
2020-10-22 15:11:29	raiz	^
2020-10-22 15:11:47	tildebeast	i wrote some for freebsd but they need a quick tweak to allow for manual letsencrypt certs not being easily updatable
2020-10-22 15:11:52	tildebeast	(by script, that is)
2020-10-22 15:12:28	raiz	why would you use letsencrypt for gemini?
2020-10-22 15:12:37	tildebeast	to create certs
2020-10-22 15:12:54	raiz	yeah, but isn't tofu the norm here?
2020-10-22 15:13:52	tildebeast	might be the norm but i'm used to using letsencrypt :)
2020-10-22 15:14:07	raiz	alright
2020-10-22 15:14:39	raiz	it might be annoying to have to renew tofu certs everyone 2 months
2020-10-22 15:14:45	raiz	(for users)
2020-10-22 15:14:59	raiz	(*visitors)
2020-10-22 15:15:06	tildebeast	don't tofus have an expiry anyway?
2020-10-22 15:15:21	raiz	can go for as a far as a year
2020-10-22 15:15:33	raiz	or more (but I wouldn't recommend that)
2020-10-22 15:17:11	tildebeast	fair enough. i set up a weekly renewal script on my freebsd server. and a 'follow-up' script that copies any <6-day-old certs to a 'gemcerts' directory and changes the ownership so molly-brown (running as user 'gemini') can access them
2020-10-22 15:18:34	tildebeast	took a few tweaks and some weaponised four-letter words but it seems to work now
2020-10-22 15:19:44	raiz	lol
2020-10-22 15:32:53	▬▬▶	alex_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 15:33:34	ericonr	I have yet to properly implement TOFU in my client D:
2020-10-22 15:34:31		alex11 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-22 15:34:53	ericonr	I currently just have an option to accept whatever key the server sends me if the certificate isn't verified
2020-10-22 15:41:13	ℹ 	alex_ is now known as alex11
2020-10-22 15:54:35	tildebeast	perfectly secure :)
2020-10-22 16:07:55		wingy has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-22 16:08:17	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 17:02:00	kiedtl	There, my dumb gemini crawler has reached a working state. woo!
2020-10-22 17:02:14	felix	Congrats!
2020-10-22 17:15:51	ericonr	tildebeast: heh :)
2020-10-22 17:17:06	ericonr	assuming I figure out a good way to store the key, I should be able to get it working properly
2020-10-22 18:21:43		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-22 20:03:35	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 20:22:02		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-22 20:26:40	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 20:58:15		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-22 21:14:18		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-22 21:16:04	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 21:16:12	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 21:56:15		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-22 21:57:11	▬▬▶	superprower has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 21:59:52	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 22:03:13		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-22 22:04:24	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 22:12:13	▬▬▶	Alex has joined #gemini
2020-10-22 22:13:05	ℹ 	Alex is now known as deuill
2020-10-22 22:29:23	kiedtl	does anyone have any idea how big gemspace is?
2020-10-22 22:30:23	acdw	you could check the known hosts at gus.guru
2020-10-22 22:32:29	kiedtl	oh, not just capsules, gmi pages too
2020-10-22 22:32:41	acdw	Ah. I'm not sure then..
2020-10-22 22:32:55	acdw	you could try ... scraping everythign? I don't know if tht's a great idea
2020-10-22 22:33:22	kiedtl	Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now :P
2020-10-22 22:33:50	lucidiot	RIP servers
2020-10-22 22:34:30	kiedtl	Don't think my crawler would cause any substantial load on servers
2020-10-22 22:34:33	ericonr	"first DoS attack on gemini"
2020-10-22 22:34:41	kiedtl	unless the server is running on a raspberry pi zero
2020-10-22 22:35:52	lucidiot	which could definitely be the case considering gemini is lightweight :p
2020-10-22 22:36:02	ericonr	:)
2020-10-22 22:36:15	ericonr	TLS is probably the biggest overhead 
2020-10-22 22:36:17	lucidiot	is there a raspberry pi minus one
2020-10-22 22:36:21	lucidiot	or is that arduino
2020-10-22 22:36:50	ericonr	eh, if you still want internet you could go with an ESP32/ESP8266
2020-10-22 22:36:57	lucidiot	ah yeah
2020-10-22 22:37:02	kevinsan	kiedtl: even running on an arduino, you won't stress servers. we tend to receive hits in the order of requests per hour :)
2020-10-22 22:37:04	ericonr	I wonder if I could make IoT over Gemini :o
2020-10-22 22:38:09	kiedtl	kevinsan: ok, thanks :)
2020-10-22 22:38:18	kevinsan	kiedtl: if you are writing a crawler, you might consider gathering links in a big file and crawling them in random order (e.g. sort by random and then process them)
2020-10-22 22:38:31	lucidiot	i was considering doing gemini but with request bodies for a hamradio network
2020-10-22 22:38:32	kiedtl	Ooops, I don't think I was clear
2020-10-22 22:38:42	kiedtl	I'm not scraping data, I'm just collecting links
2020-10-22 22:38:44	kiedtl	urls
2020-10-22 22:38:57	kiedtl	(Although I might scrape data later, I'm not sure now)
2020-10-22 22:39:18	lucidiot	though TLS is technically forbidden for amateur radio here
2020-10-22 22:39:32	kevinsan	kiedtl: well you need to fetch pages to find links, so it makes little difference from a server-load perspective
2020-10-22 22:40:18	kevinsan	what I really liked was a Gemini-page roulette - I forget where it was, but it never got updated and got quite stale.
2020-10-22 22:40:31	kiedtl	I see what you mean
2020-10-22 22:40:36	kiedtl	Yeah
2020-10-22 22:40:37	kevinsan	it was great just seeing a random page
2020-10-22 22:40:37	lucidiot	yeah maybe work in multiple passes if you need to crawl (and you don't have _all_ the links already): take your list, crawl randomly, take that new list, crawl randomly, …
2020-10-22 22:40:49	@tomasino	was that a Gus thing?
2020-10-22 22:40:51	kiedtl	I do parse the the page, but through away the page afterwards
2020-10-22 22:41:10	kiedtl	*throw
2020-10-22 22:41:29	kevinsan	lucidiot: I did that for a web crawler - each page was treated independently, rather than each site, so hits were spread
2020-10-22 22:41:59	kevinsan	I was still requesting 1 page per second - so it was slooooooow by server throughput standards
2020-10-22 22:42:05	acdw	I don't think the gemini roulette was gus
2020-10-22 22:42:17	kevinsan	acdw: no it was someone else... wait i'll check
2020-10-22 22:42:27	acdw	I mean ... is it a big deal if it's just you , downloading them once,?
2020-10-22 22:42:30	ericonr	for crawling you'd have to implement all the navigation stuff, right?
2020-10-22 22:42:32	acdw	the page thruput i mean
2020-10-22 22:42:37	ericonr	resolving links and such
2020-10-22 22:42:38	kevinsan	gemini://typed-hole.org/roulette
2020-10-22 22:43:15	@tomasino	gemini://typed-hole.org/roulette
2020-10-22 22:43:17	@tomasino	oh, you beat me to it
2020-10-22 22:43:20	@tomasino	i searched gus for it
2020-10-22 22:43:21	@tomasino	:P
2020-10-22 22:43:41	kevinsan	even gus is getting a little stale these days - is natpen still around the verse?
2020-10-22 22:44:16	ericonr	hm, my client doesn't like the header it returns
2020-10-22 22:44:36	ericonr	it doesn't use a single space after the status code :P
2020-10-22 22:44:39	acdw	ey there it is
2020-10-22 22:44:40	kevinsan	ericonr: if you're talking about roulette - it may just be the site you're winning
2020-10-22 22:44:58	ericonr	> 31      gemini://sidewall.tokeniser.uk
2020-10-22 22:44:59	@tomasino	ahh, yeah
2020-10-22 22:45:01	kevinsan	aahh - i've seen that in a few responses
2020-10-22 22:45:11	ericonr	it's returned all the times like this
2020-10-22 22:45:14	kevinsan	i've been trying to figure out what server is doing this
2020-10-22 22:45:26	ericonr	technically it's within spec, right?
2020-10-22 22:45:35	kevinsan	no, i checked - one space i'm sure
2020-10-22 22:45:42	ericonr	hm, interesting
2020-10-22 22:45:42	acdw	Oh that must be an older server? is the statusline spec updated to <CODE><SPC><META>?
2020-10-22 22:45:43	@tomasino	i think that got changed to exactly one space recently
2020-10-22 22:45:47	acdw	a-ha
2020-10-22 22:46:33	ericonr	if this were an RFC, it would include something like "clients should accept any number of whitespace characters after the status code"
2020-10-22 22:46:37	kevinsan	just goes to show how risky it can be to mess with the spec 
2020-10-22 22:46:47	acdw	YUP
2020-10-22 22:46:57	@tomasino	that's what it used to be eric
2020-10-22 22:46:58	kevinsan	i think clients should be lenient when there's no penalty for doing so
2020-10-22 22:47:22	acdw	yeah, the thing. the wise quote thing
2020-10-22 22:47:49	kevinsan	acdw: is that a meta-proverb you're offering us? :)
2020-10-22 22:47:57	acdw	uh ... yeah
2020-10-22 22:47:58	acdw	:P
2020-10-22 22:48:13	acdw	look, you know what i'm talking about. so ... just think of that
2020-10-22 22:48:38	ericonr	kevinsan: well, there's the penalty of me not having throught of it
2020-10-22 22:49:10	kevinsan	your profundity humbles me. i do similar with jokes. "think of something mundane, add a surprising and humorous twist"
2020-10-22 22:49:24	ericonr	and doing `redirect = response + 3` instead of doing a proper loop
2020-10-22 22:49:34	ericonr	or just a strrchr, actually
2020-10-22 22:49:47	acdw	there's another thing that talks about how we should just number all the pithy sayings and refer to them by numbers?
2020-10-22 22:49:49	acdw	or is that jokes?
2020-10-22 22:50:02	acdw	OMG kevinsan that is HILAROIOUS
2020-10-22 22:50:03	acdw	lololol
2020-10-22 22:50:47	kevinsan	the thing is, it can be re-used over and over. 
2020-10-22 22:50:57	kevinsan	shame i don't get invited to parties much, i'd be a hoot
2020-10-22 22:51:03	@tomasino	joke 5041.
2020-10-22 22:51:06	kevinsan	hahaha
2020-10-22 22:51:10	acdw	laugh 88
2020-10-22 22:51:21	acdw	that's in the upgrade
2020-10-22 22:51:41	★	acdw invites kevinsan to a party
2020-10-22 22:52:40	kevinsan	i now feel part of the 'in' crowd. prepare for awkward atmosphere, squirmy anecdotes...
2020-10-22 22:52:48	kevinsan	but great meta-jokes ! :)
2020-10-22 22:52:52	acdw	heck yeah
2020-10-22 22:53:00	acdw	:)
2020-10-22 22:53:49	@tomasino	callback to earlier joke, but in new context #3
2020-10-22 22:54:08	kevinsan	anyway, joke 21
2020-10-22 22:54:11	kevinsan	i know it's an old one
2020-10-22 22:54:58	@tomasino	oldy but a goodie
2020-10-22 22:55:00	kevinsan	is there a name for that muted wwah-wwah-wwahhh trumpet sound?
2020-10-22 22:55:39	acdw	joke #2
2020-10-22 22:55:58	kevinsan	steady - you can't make jokes like that any more
2020-10-22 22:56:16	acdw	oh no I was saying the mwaah wah wahhhhhhh sound *is* joke #2
2020-10-22 22:56:17	kevinsan	times have defnineetlee changed
2020-10-22 22:56:23	acdw	figure it's a pretty old one
2020-10-22 22:56:25	acdw	:P
2020-10-22 22:56:28	kevinsan	:)
2020-10-22 22:56:42	acdw	joke #1 is: “Something which has never occurred since time immemorial; a young woman did not fart in her husband’s lap.”
2020-10-22 22:56:46	acdw	https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-joke-life/worlds-oldest-joke-traced-back-to-1900-bc-idUKL129052420080731
2020-10-22 22:56:48	acdw	:P
2020-10-22 22:57:20	ericonr	hm, it seems I was mistaken. It's not multiple spaces, those are tabs!
2020-10-22 22:58:16	acdw	gotta love them tabs
2020-10-22 22:58:37	acdw	I think we should use more of the whitespace ascii chars. where's my vertical tabs?
2020-10-22 22:58:44	acdw	my page feeds?
2020-10-22 22:58:53	acdw	gimme those like, four kinds of spaces or whatever
2020-10-22 22:59:06	acdw	anyway i'm about to head home, bye
2020-10-22 22:59:08		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-22 22:59:42	kevinsan	ok, safe travels!
2020-10-22 23:00:11	@tomasino	the column delimiter characters are horribly underused
2020-10-22 23:00:40	kevinsan	kiedtl: what are your plans for your great Geminispace URL survey?
2020-10-22 23:01:31	kiedtl	I made the crawler out of curiosity, boredom
2020-10-22 23:01:38	kiedtl	I might make a tiny search engine for fun
2020-10-22 23:01:45	kiedtl	I don't know
2020-10-22 23:02:14	kevinsan	i've been doing something similar, though more of a homepage survey at the moment. I wanted to re-implement roulette with up to date data.
2020-10-22 23:02:56	kevinsan	however, I keep getting distracted on other projects. My brain is like a call-stack
2020-10-22 23:03:29	kevinsan	i'll be interested to see when you have something to show.
2020-10-22 23:19:29	lucidiot	ah yes i want more ascii delimiters
2020-10-22 23:19:31	lucidiot	csv bad
2020-10-22 23:20:32	lucidiot	and thanks sqlite for .mode ascii
2020-10-22 23:26:12		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-22 23:36:30	sose	Does anyone know if there is a reference implementation of the Dioscuri protocol yet? Or is it just specs for now
2020-10-22 23:36:35	sose	It seems like an interesting project
2020-10-23 00:22:52	xfnw	whats Dioscuri
2020-10-23 00:23:46	weeb	^
2020-10-23 00:33:24	kiedtl	^^
2020-10-23 00:37:05	sose	A theorized way of having an equivalent of the http POST request for gemspace: https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/002792.html
2020-10-23 00:37:27	sose	It seems like people don't like the idea much though 
2020-10-23 00:38:06	sose	There is also titan://, which is a similar concept
2020-10-23 00:40:13	sose	https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan
2020-10-23 00:40:20	kevinsan	from the original ML post "Dioscuri is a protocol intended to supplement Gemini for doing things like uploading files, performing remote actions, and running an application server.  It is the POST to Gemini's GET.  Dioscuri servers will run on a different port altogether, so that they do not interfere with Gemini servers.  Dioscuri, unlike Gemini, absolutely *requires* the use of client certificat
2020-10-23 00:42:52	kevinsan	i'm not sure it's fair to say people don't like the issue - there were a couple of dissenting voices, but then again there's nothing but chat at the moment, so it's all moot
2020-10-23 00:45:28	kevinsan	titan does have a working implementation, with code and examples etc. It can be used with simple bash scripting.
2020-10-23 00:47:50	sose	Since nothing is standardized, I wonder what the preferred way of running something like a wiki would work
2020-10-23 00:48:01	sose	Some more ideas in this thread: https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/001632.html
2020-10-23 00:48:22	kevinsan	i can't help thinking that if it runs on a separate port anyway, then I'd be as well to just use HTTP POST to a server socket - there's a world of existing code to do that.
2020-10-23 00:50:50	sose	There was a post on the mailing list theorizing chunking content into separate queries, that way it could all be done through gemini
2020-10-23 00:50:56	kevinsan	there's no meaningful way to run a wiki on Gemini alone. A custom client could be hacked together to 10 INPUT a series of packets to be re-assembled via a cgi script
2020-10-23 00:52:55	sose	Thats about what the post suggested, and what I was considering as well, the problem would be working with anything that's not text, which is where dioscuri and titan could work
2020-10-23 00:54:03	kevinsan	you would encode the input, so binary data would be possible. it just might take hundreds of requests, and each would require a TLS handshake, which would be horribly inefficient.
2020-10-23 00:55:24	kevinsan	but it gets back to the original point of re-inventing an input protocol when some cgi via HTTP seems as valid to me as vim via SSH, for example.
2020-10-23 00:55:27	sose	Just doing the math on a random image file I have it would take about 115 requests to upload the whole thing, which I don't think is very practical
2020-10-23 00:55:54	kevinsan	it's not impractical, the code does all the work. it's just inefficient
2020-10-23 00:56:17	kevinsan	but yes, it just feels wrong :)
2020-10-23 00:58:21	sose	I guess i'm just searching for a "right" way to do things, which gemini doesn't seem to provide
2020-10-23 00:59:22	sose	Although, I do like solderpunk's idea of essentially self-hosting content and sending the server a link
2020-10-23 01:00:18	sose	The server then fetches the resource and processes it normally
2020-10-23 01:00:43	kevinsan	is this the notion of proxying content?
2020-10-23 01:01:09	sose	Not exactly
2020-10-23 01:02:12	sose	The client would briefly host the content for the server to fetch, the server would fetch it, process it, and the client would stop hosting
2020-10-23 01:02:58	sose	Its the most elegant, but the least practical in practice
2020-10-23 01:07:07	kevinsan	i see it either a) requiring an open port on the client machine, or b) breaking the spec in terms of the transaction lifecycle (e.g. the client would need to keep the connection open for the server to make a request)
2020-10-23 01:27:58	sose	Right, which is why it is less practical than the other solutions
2020-10-23 01:44:30	sose	I'm going to try some experiments implementing different approaches, and i'll post the links to the results here
2020-10-23 02:22:25	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 02:49:50	raiz	morning
2020-10-23 02:50:04	acdw	o/
2020-10-23 02:50:33	raiz	"A theorized way of having an equivalent of the http POST request for gemspace:"
2020-10-23 02:50:38	raiz	^ please no
2020-10-23 02:50:51	raiz	you can have wiki management in a different protocol
2020-10-23 02:51:14	raiz	a wiki hosted in gemspace can have its contents managed with a git repo behind ssh
2020-10-23 02:51:49	raiz	lets keep gemini for serving content only, other protocols can do other things better
2020-10-23 02:51:59	raiz	or else you go the HTTP path
2020-10-23 02:52:08	raiz	also, hi acdw 
2020-10-23 02:52:54	acdw	hey raiz
2020-10-23 02:57:00	acdw	raiz: what do you think about a parallel protocol?
2020-10-23 03:06:13		deuill has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-23 03:10:30	raiz	you mean ssh compared to gemini?
2020-10-23 03:13:13	acdw	well, titan
2020-10-23 03:13:22	acdw	that might be the hting you were referrring to tho
2020-10-23 03:13:55	acdw	https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan
2020-10-23 03:16:05	raiz	I don't know about that, just heard about it
2020-10-23 03:18:46	acdw	oh okay 
2020-10-23 03:18:58	acdw	it seems cool though there's only one implementation afaik
2020-10-23 03:19:18	acdw	I like the idea of having one protocol that's basically GET, then another that's PUT, etc
2020-10-23 03:19:40	acdw	so instead of the "verbs" in one ... "sentence," they're set apart
2020-10-23 03:19:47	acdw	so you always know what's happening
2020-10-23 03:20:32	raiz	yeah, I wouldn't mind that, but always keep in mind you don't want these 2 protocols relying on each other
2020-10-23 03:22:06	acdw	yes i agree
2020-10-23 03:22:12	acdw	totally separate, as all things should be
2020-10-23 03:48:15	weeb	i cant tell where the "POST"-like gemini protocols fit. it appears as if gemini isnt for big files, so things like uploading files to a server are probably not going to catch on, since theres http for multiple-MiB files
2020-10-23 03:48:21	weeb	seems to me like everyone editing their stuff do it through other ways (ssh, sftp, git?) and just serve over gemini anyway
2020-10-23 03:49:11	acdw	hm fair weeb. my biggest thing is that i can't ssh from work, at least on 22
2020-10-23 03:49:33	acdw	once i *finally* get a personal server for myself (I have been putting it off for a while)
2020-10-23 03:49:43	acdw	it probably won't matter very much at all
2020-10-23 04:04:44		acdw has quit (quit: See You Space Cowpokes ...)
2020-10-23 04:06:23	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 04:19:24		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-23 04:21:43	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 06:25:45		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-23 06:27:44	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 06:27:45	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-10-23 07:53:43		sandra has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-23 08:18:22	▬▬▶	sandra has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 09:20:42	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 09:22:19	lukee	jcowan: I think the way Agena should work is that once you have configured the client to send all requests to a specified server, you just request the actual URL you intend to visit. The client detects the URL's scheme and sends it as a request to the proxy
2020-10-23 09:22:56	lukee	the HTTP through Gemini proxy, Duckling works this way. I think Agena should do the same
2020-10-23 10:04:09		raiz has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by raiz1))
2020-10-23 10:04:09	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 10:04:21	▬▬▶	__R__ has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 10:08:33		raiz has quit (quit: EOF)
2020-10-23 10:14:16	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 10:18:57		__R__ has quit (quit: EOF)
2020-10-23 10:19:00	▬▬▶	__R__ has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 10:29:13	ℹ 	raiz is now known as _raiz
2020-10-23 10:29:19	ℹ 	__R__ is now known as raiz
2020-10-23 10:29:33	ℹ 	_raiz is now known as __R__
2020-10-23 11:01:40		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-23 12:42:57		zephryn has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-23 12:44:09	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 13:19:46	jcowan	lukee: I was hoping to get Agena to work transparently to the client, rather than making every client know about the proxy protocol.  HTTP needs a proxy protocol because the proxy and the target servers may need separate auth, but that shouldn't be true in Gemini.
2020-10-23 13:24:06	thefunkyspaw	Drew Devault (tech blogger guy) just started converting his whole blog to gemini and gemini portals. He's kind of a big deal.
2020-10-23 13:24:08	thefunkyspaw	https://drewdevault.com/
2020-10-23 13:24:24	thefunkyspaw	Looks like he totally mangled his site, and the gemini site is a mess, too
2020-10-23 13:24:46	thefunkyspaw	http and gemini links going left, right, and center, and a lot of the kinks don't work, lol
2020-10-23 13:25:07	raiz	I discovered gemini reading his blog
2020-10-23 13:25:08	raiz	lol
2020-10-23 13:25:18	raiz	and here I am
2020-10-23 13:25:30	thefunkyspaw	Yay! It's working!
2020-10-23 13:25:55	thefunkyspaw	Unfortunately gemini doesn't support gifs of young anakin yelling "its working" from his podracer...
2020-10-23 13:26:21	raiz	that's a feature!
2020-10-23 13:27:21	thefunkyspaw	Haha, yes. With what we lose, we gain self control and reatraint
2020-10-23 13:27:42	thefunkyspaw	This is my favorite proxy, figured I'd share: https://proxy.vulpes.one/
2020-10-23 13:28:35	raiz	oh, no, I use native gemini client
2020-10-23 13:30:08	thefunkyspaw	what's nice about this proxy is it seamlessly switches between gopher and gemini links, and clicking html will open a web page.
2020-10-23 13:30:36	thefunkyspaw	I use it on my phone because its better than the apps that browse gemini, and I can save bookmarks more easily
2020-10-23 13:31:02	thefunkyspaw	bombadillo is the closest thing I've found to it for desktop
2020-10-23 13:31:12	thefunkyspaw	but using my browser is just easier
2020-10-23 13:31:51	raiz	whatever works
2020-10-23 13:31:58	jcowan	Well, I suppose a client is free to render a link to an image as an inline image.
2020-10-23 13:37:01	thefunkyspaw	I can see the slippery slope that presents
2020-10-23 13:37:59	thefunkyspaw	Humans seem to tend to focus on more quickly digested data. When pictures are present, there is a tendency to skim to the pictures and skip the content.
2020-10-23 13:38:19	thefunkyspaw	Something like midnight.pub could be slowly subverted and become an inageboard
2020-10-23 13:53:49	jcowan	Life is spent on the slippery slope between birth and death.
2020-10-23 13:55:20	felix	Isn't it funny how we keep finding serious issues in the design of Gemini, yet we're afraid to make any changes?
2020-10-23 13:55:39	felix	And it was to be expected, too. No shame in that. The whole thing is absurdly new.
2020-10-23 13:56:52	wangofett	to be fair, neither gemini nor gopher explicitly forbid anything really.
2020-10-23 13:56:57	felix	gus.guru doesn't seem to have updated in two months. Many don't seem to know what to post on their gemlogs.
2020-10-23 13:57:23	jcowan	"It is not immoral to touch your mother's big toe with your little finger, and the difference between that and incest is only a matter of degree."  --Sextus Empiricus, 200 AD
2020-10-23 13:58:20	wangofett	you could write a client that renders CommonMark and displays images or linkifies urls
2020-10-23 13:59:06	wangofett	it's mostly that nobody bothers
2020-10-23 14:00:07	wangofett	You can still (mostly) browse the web with the likes of lynx or edbrowse
2020-10-23 14:17:32	felix	Yes, we can and we should. That could be a way forward.
2020-10-23 14:17:48	felix	No, you can't write Lynx in a weekend, the way you can with a Gemini browser.
2020-10-23 14:17:53	felix	So what?
2020-10-23 14:18:21	felix	I recently completed a comparative study of three programming languages disguised as a roguelike port.
2020-10-23 14:18:29	felix	Took me three weeks.
2020-10-23 14:18:56	felix	And it was a flight of fancy. Fooling around with toys.
2020-10-23 14:19:24	felix	How short is the average hacker's attention span these days?
2020-10-23 14:21:00		wangofett has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-23 14:27:06	thefunkyspaw	jcowan / that's big talk from a guy named sextus!
2020-10-23 14:27:07	jcowan	Progress doesn't come from *average* hackers.
2020-10-23 14:27:42	thefunkyspaw	I wonder if gemini can do sixel graphics
2020-10-23 14:29:56	thefunkyspaw	nope
2020-10-23 14:30:20	jcowan	Eh, why not?
2020-10-23 14:31:52	thefunkyspaw	Sixels aren't UTF-8 encoded characters
2020-10-23 14:37:46	lukee	jcowan: to get scheme specific proxies working (whether it is for gopher or http(s)) the client just needs to know to which server to send the request. In both instances, a gemini request is sent to the proxy with the URL desired, and the content is returned, usually as text/gemini for gophermaps or html pages, otherwise whatever was the original content
2020-10-23 14:38:16	lukee	So in both cases, it works (or should work) the same way. It is not an HTTP proxy in the classical web sense of a web proxy.
2020-10-23 14:40:17	lukee	rather the proxy servers (agena or duckling) are actually gemini servers that will return content on gopher or http(s) URL end points
2020-10-23 14:40:58	lukee	that's the theory. Of course some clients might have bugs or broken implementations
2020-10-23 14:41:58	jcowan	thefunkyspaw: Ah, got it.  I was thinking of quadrants.
2020-10-23 14:43:11	jcowan	lukee: I think I follow you.  The downside is that the client software has to know about the proxy: normal clients given an URL will always send it to the host named in the URL.
2020-10-23 14:43:49	jcowan	So if your favorite client does not support proxies, you are SOL.
2020-10-23 14:46:14	lukee	jcowan: yes, the client has have an option to use a scheme specific proxy. the advantage is that the proxy is just a gemini server, so the client doenst have to know anything about the target protocol
2020-10-23 14:46:47	lukee	There are a few now that I know of, including AV-98, Gemget, Diohsc, lagrange, amfora. Maybe others too
2020-10-23 14:46:53	lukee	and GemiNaut
2020-10-23 14:47:19	jcowan	Right. But a non-transparent proxy (e.g. one that interprets the path as an URL) has the advantage that it will work with any client.
2020-10-23 14:48:13	jcowan	gemini://proxy.host/gopher://gopher.floodgap.com, e.g.
2020-10-23 14:48:42	lukee	yes - these are sort of live mirroring services. I don't think Agena works like that, and nor does Duckling. But they probably could be adapted to do so
2020-10-23 14:48:50	jcowan	Both kinds are useful
2020-10-23 14:49:46	lukee	the other option of course is to bolt in a simple gopher/http(s) library into the client for the most seamless integration
2020-10-23 14:52:43	lukee	so for example Kristall and GemiNaut directly handle http(s)+gemini+gopher, Castor does gopher+gemini+finger, I think some commandline gemini clients do gemini and gopher directly (bombadillo maybe others)
2020-10-23 14:59:36	lukee	the main advantage of the transparent proxies (agena and duckling) is that when a gopher or http url is included anywhere in the geminiverse, the user can directly click on it and the client retrieves it immediately. Otherwise you have to navigate over to a mirroring proxy then paste in the URL, or get your client to munge the URLs some how
2020-10-23 15:00:01	lukee	but I agree there is a role for both types
2020-10-23 15:00:31	jcowan	Finger, wow.  
2020-10-23 15:00:52	jcowan	I wonder if there is a list of public fingerable servers
2020-10-23 15:02:03	lukee	I thought gopher was anitquarian, but finger is positively pre-cambrian
2020-10-23 15:03:46		sandra has left #gemini ("part weird creature")
2020-10-23 15:05:57	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 15:12:08	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 15:13:28	wgreenhouse	elpher (emacs client) also does gemini, gopher, and finger
2020-10-23 15:13:50	jcowan	There may be machines on intranets running fingerd
2020-10-23 15:14:11	wgreenhouse	several of the tildeverse servers have finger
2020-10-23 15:14:34	wgreenhouse	also some phloggers seem to use it as some kind of adjacent thing to their phlog
2020-10-23 15:14:40	jcowan	One of the curious things about the standard finger implementation is that all the brains are in the client.  The server just runs the client locally on behalf of the remote site.
2020-10-23 15:17:34	acdw	there are bunches of fangers
2020-10-23 15:19:55	jcowan	Most of them dogs.  Some of the rest are tigers.
2020-10-23 15:33:53	▬▬▶	deuill has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 15:46:41	acdw	lolol
2020-10-23 15:46:56	acdw	now THAT would be a dope protocol name: Tiger Protocol
2020-10-23 15:46:59	acdw	tiger://rawr
2020-10-23 17:02:46		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-23 17:18:58	kiedtl	tiger://cla.ws
2020-10-23 17:19:23	acdw	hell yes
2020-10-23 17:19:25	kiedtl	My crawler bot started to hang after crawling... 19,900 capsules. Hmm, gemspace is bigger than I thought
2020-10-23 17:19:51	kiedtl	oops, not capsules. pages.
2020-10-23 17:20:44	admicos	aren't there some mirrors of http pages too? assuming you don't exclude them that might be the reason
2020-10-23 17:21:08	kiedtl	Oh, no, I do not exclude mirrors... never thought of that
2020-10-23 17:21:25	admicos	iirc there's a wikipedia mirror so that might be a while to crawl
2020-10-23 17:21:27	kiedtl	Well, I can filter those out after I'm done, I suppose
2020-10-23 17:21:29	kiedtl	oof
2020-10-23 17:21:33	kiedtl	I had no idea
2020-10-23 17:29:40	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 17:51:35	acdw	oh yeah taht'll add a bunch
2020-10-23 18:12:09	boringcactus	hey who owns the mailing list
2020-10-23 18:12:26	@tomasino	um, i forget
2020-10-23 18:14:30	boringcactus	bc if we've got people from a harassment message board promoting projects where they've thrown some racial slurs into the license then that seems like a good thing to not let people do on the mailing list
2020-10-23 18:17:33	ericonr	unless there was another one, I think I see the message. ew
2020-10-23 18:18:36	boringcactus	https://f.boringcactus.com/2020-10-23_12-18-07.png the license, with the slurs blurred but not difficult to infer from context
2020-10-23 18:18:44	ericonr	they even use the fucking AGPL3 logo as if it was just a normal variation
2020-10-23 18:20:32	raiz	4chan culture
2020-10-23 18:20:44		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-23 18:23:40	@tomasino	ugh, why?
2020-10-23 18:24:04	boringcactus	edgelords gonna edgelord, i guess
2020-10-23 18:24:26	boringcactus	all you can really do is say "go be an edgelord somewhere else"
2020-10-23 18:43:01	jcowan	And such people are generally judgment-proof.
2020-10-23 18:50:40	acdw	yeah i was wondering about that
2020-10-23 18:51:56	acdw	It's hosted on orbitalfox.eu
2020-10-23 18:52:11	acdw	of course that's obvios tho
2020-10-23 18:52:29	acdw	ben might know?
2020-10-23 18:53:14	@ben	what's up
2020-10-23 18:53:21	@ben	what do i know?
2020-10-23 18:53:34	@ben	i have no idea who hosts the list
2020-10-23 18:53:41	acdw	do you know who is in charge of the gemini ML? Or are you another ben than the one who has a logarion?
2020-10-23 18:53:49	acdw	oh ah
2020-10-23 18:53:50	@ben	what's a logarion
2020-10-23 18:53:51	acdw	nvm then, sorry
2020-10-23 18:54:02	acdw	https://kwiecien.us/
2020-10-23 18:54:10	@ben	nope i'm https://benharr.is
2020-10-23 18:54:25	acdw	yeah, I thought it was a different ben... don't know their nick tho
2020-10-23 18:54:27	acdw	soryr to bother you
2020-10-23 18:56:17	raiz	getting a 4channer banned is calling for trouble, as long as he's not actively harrasing anyone directly, it'd be wise to just let it go, some people are gonna have different opinions and ideas and you can't change that
2020-10-23 18:56:39	acdw	oof i didn't think about that
2020-10-23 18:57:20	boringcactus	that's what they're counting on, though
2020-10-23 18:57:25	boringcactus	the "i'm not touching you" defense
2020-10-23 18:57:40	raiz	I doubt he'd post again
2020-10-23 18:59:14	▬▬▶	kiwi-n2898 has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 19:16:24	boringcactus	well, there's a quick and easy way to make sure of that
2020-10-23 19:16:41	boringcactus	(quick and easy once we figure out who runs the mailing list)
2020-10-23 19:16:46	login	what do you mean judgement-proof?
2020-10-23 19:17:24	boringcactus	if you go "hey nobody likes it when you do that" they'll respond with "lol owned" and then half a dozen slurs
2020-10-23 19:18:51	lukee	yuk, I feel repulsed at this
2020-10-23 19:22:53	login	ah, i see
2020-10-23 19:22:53	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 19:22:53	login	so they take advantage of vulnerability
2020-10-23 19:23:17	nihilazo	hi, new here! Might be coming here for help with my gemini site in the future
2020-10-23 19:23:58	raiz	hey nihilazo 
2020-10-23 19:23:59	acdw	o/
2020-10-23 19:24:13	nihilazo	but rn I have no gemini sute lol
2020-10-23 19:24:16	nihilazo	s/sute/site
2020-10-23 19:25:00	acdw	oh nihilazo: you've got toki pona right? There was an abortive effort to get some toki pona stuff up on a wiki in gemini space: https://transjovian.org:1965/
2020-10-23 19:25:19	acdw	(also avaiable with gemini://transjovian.org)
2020-10-23 19:26:17	nihilazo	ah, cool
2020-10-23 19:28:39	nihilazo	rn I'm using amfora as a gemini browser, is it a good one? I picked the one that was most popular in the AUR
2020-10-23 19:29:11	nihilazo	it doesn't seem to be able to open local gemini files, so will I need a local gemini server for testing? What's a good gemini server program to use (for testing and for deploying on my site)?
2020-10-23 19:29:18	nihilazo	(sorry for question spam)
2020-10-23 19:29:48	acdw	as far as browsers go, it's up to you! If you like the CLI, amfora is good.  A good GUI is kristall, or I use elpher on Emacs
2020-10-23 19:31:28	acdw	as far as local stuff ---- you could try https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/molly-brown (what breadpunk uses)
2020-10-23 19:31:46	acdw	and gemcert by solderpunk to make a cert for your test server .... but i don't know how to do any of that tbh
2020-10-23 19:31:54	acdw	i thik you'd just ... do it. but i'm not sure
2020-10-23 19:32:54	nihilazo	oh
2020-10-23 19:33:14	nihilazo	I have a real ssl cert for my real server already, can I use it for gemini if I already use it for http?
2020-10-23 19:33:27	admicos	as long as the domain is correct it'll work
2020-10-23 19:33:29	nihilazo	for testing, I really just want to see if formatting and stuff is correct before I go publishing anything
2020-10-23 19:33:51	admicos	but - since gemini clients use "trust on first use" it might be a great idea t o have a cert with long expiry times
2020-10-23 19:34:03	admicos	gemcert for example generates certificates with 5 years of expiry
2020-10-23 19:34:15	admicos	otherwise people will need to re-trust your certificates every time they expire
2020-10-23 19:35:26	acdw	yes
2020-10-23 19:35:51	nihilazo	I'm just using certbot
2020-10-23 19:37:49	raiz	you dont have to bring CA to gemspace as it is irrelevent here
2020-10-23 19:38:06	raiz	but no one would stop you
2020-10-23 19:38:16	nihilazo	wait so I'm confused, how do certs work in gemspace
2020-10-23 19:38:24	nihilazo	I have a cert from certbot that is on my website
2020-10-23 19:38:29	nihilazo	are gemini certs different?
2020-10-23 19:38:35	raiz	isn't certbot an acme client?
2020-10-23 19:38:58	acdw	nope, they're not ... but there are really stringent requirements on HTTPS TLS certs that gemini doesn't follow
2020-10-23 19:39:27	kiwi-n2898	[ANN] Hi! I wrote a gemini server in julia (called Gemenon.jl), and wrote a service with it. It's an anonymous board, and it's currently hosted at gemini://nixo.xyz . I wrote it today, and I never used anonymous boards by myself, so I don't know if it's of any use.  If any of you could give me feedback on it, I'd really appreciate! For example,
2020-10-23 19:39:27	kiwi-n2898	it's working well on elpher but I'm having problem writing contents with bombadillo
2020-10-23 19:39:40	acdw	so a regular certbot cert (which is an acme client afaik) will work with a gemini server, but a gemcert-made cert is self-signed so it won't work with HTTPS ... i think
2020-10-23 19:39:46	nihilazo	ok
2020-10-23 19:39:57	nihilazo	I am kinda confused by all this. I will rejoin tomorrow when I'm more awake
2020-10-23 19:40:02	acdw	no worries!
2020-10-23 19:40:09	nihilazo	the hardest part will be setting up a server on my server because I am terrible at admin stuff
2020-10-23 19:40:21	nihilazo	and molly brown seems confusing to set up
2020-10-23 19:40:34	raiz	CA != TLS
2020-10-23 19:40:46	▬▬▶	webchatter has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 19:41:04	acdw	nihilazo: it's not so bad, really :) It's mostly setting up the config file in the right place, then figuring out how to keep molly-brown running since it doesn't daemonize by itself
2020-10-23 19:41:36	webchatter	hi everyone I am really interested in knowing more about gemini. Just reading the site now, what generally is the benefit of it? was it made as an alternative to http for a specific reason?
2020-10-23 19:42:31	ℹ 	webchatter is now known as d3fragg3d
2020-10-23 19:46:03	@tomasino	there's a bit of backstory on the faq, if i recall
2020-10-23 19:46:28	@tomasino	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/faq.gmi
2020-10-23 19:46:34	@tomasino	yeah, talks about the whys 
2020-10-23 19:46:39	d3fragg3d	just looking over it now.
2020-10-23 19:57:59		kiwi-n2898 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-23 19:58:26	▬▬▶	kiwi-n2898 has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:33:44		lel has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		benoliver999 has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		CoopDot has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		gbmor has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		enpo has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		tastytea has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		ehmry has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		__R__ has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		paper_ has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:33:44		gohan has quit (hub.tilde.chat institute.tilde.chat)
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	enpo has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	tastytea has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	__R__ has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:53	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:35:54		lel has quit (quit: lel)
2020-10-23 20:35:54	▬▬▶	lel has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:36:08		gbmor has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-23 20:36:12		paper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-23 20:36:29		g has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-23 20:37:01	▬▬▶	g has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:55:23		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-23 20:56:33		alex11 has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-10-23 20:56:37	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 20:56:42	ℹ 	alex11 is now known as DROPTABLES
2020-10-23 20:56:49	ℹ 	DROPTABLES is now known as alex11
2020-10-23 20:57:44	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 21:00:38	kiedtl	wow, amfora is the most beautiful gemini client I've seen so far
2020-10-23 21:00:44	kiedtl	new favorite!
2020-10-23 21:01:07	@tomasino	:D
2020-10-23 21:04:40	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 21:08:49	kiedtl	acdw: just wanted to say, your bollux client is really cool!
2020-10-23 21:09:51	acdw	thanks kiedtl :)
2020-10-23 21:10:00	acdw	it's stil lnot quite .. finisehd
2020-10-23 21:12:21	kiedtl	I haven't used it very much *yet*, but it seems pretty usuable
2020-10-23 21:12:41	kiedtl	I wonder what a tui gemini client in bash would look like
2020-10-23 21:17:46	acdw	:) ty
2020-10-23 21:17:48	acdw	write it!
2020-10-23 21:18:18	acdw	i was going to try, but couldn't get my head around it. https://github.com/dylanaraps/fff would get ya started with terminal escapes
2020-10-23 21:24:56	kiedtl	https://github.com/dylanaraps/birch
2020-10-23 21:25:01	kiedtl	I might start with that
2020-10-23 21:25:04	kiedtl	idk
2020-10-23 21:27:54	acdw	yeah that too -- dylanaraps is really good with bash terminal codes
2020-10-23 21:28:03	acdw	well...terminal codes .. in bash
2020-10-23 21:28:28	admicos	iirc they nowadays use posix sh instead of bashj
2020-10-23 21:28:32	admicos	s/bashj/bash
2020-10-23 21:28:55	acdw	oh yes, true
2020-10-23 21:29:05	acdw	tho they wrote the pure bash bible as well, so
2020-10-23 21:41:55	ℹ 	spideria is now known as cyberia
2020-10-23 21:46:55		mhj has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-23 21:47:38	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 21:56:38	kiedtl	he uses both, just uses POSIX when he wants portability
2020-10-23 22:01:02	acdw	ah, cool
2020-10-23 22:03:53	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 22:06:18	@tomasino	I think birch needed bash for the socket stuff
2020-10-23 22:06:39	@tomasino	Or something
2020-10-23 22:06:57	acdw	yes, for the /dev/tcp/ stuff
2020-10-23 22:07:01	acdw	which bash for some reason sets up
2020-10-23 22:09:56	kiedtl	I don't think bash sets it up by default, lol
2020-10-23 22:10:28	kiedtl	I do wonder why a shell would have networking features though
2020-10-23 22:11:18	acdw	kiedtl: I'm 99% sure it does.  Like, if you open up a bash terminal and do exec 9<>/dev/tcp/google.com/ it'll open a pipe
2020-10-23 22:11:38	kiedtl	hm
2020-10-23 22:11:39	acdw	i agree, it makes no sense
2020-10-23 22:11:57	kiedtl	I see what you mean
2020-10-23 22:11:59	kiedtl	yeah
2020-10-23 22:12:12	acdw	I can't on git-bash.exe on Windows :(
2020-10-23 22:12:23	kiedtl	oof, so birch won't work there
2020-10-23 22:12:32	kiedtl	netcat to the rescue! :p
2020-10-23 22:12:45	acdw	hehe
2020-10-23 22:13:01	acdw	well for irc, just use xchat portable
2020-10-23 22:13:11	acdw	i swear portableapps.com is a godsend
2020-10-23 22:14:23	ericonr	you can probably use openssl/brssl as a tunnel for IRC
2020-10-23 22:14:44	ericonr	my emacs irc client actually did that
2020-10-23 22:14:54	ericonr	no need to have a /dev/tcp :)
2020-10-23 22:15:26	acdw	oh nice :)
2020-10-23 22:15:30	acdw	what do you use for IRC on emacs?
2020-10-23 22:16:16	ericonr	circe
2020-10-23 22:16:21	ericonr	I used to, at least
2020-10-23 22:16:52	ericonr	wifi to my laptop is all kinds of borked, so I set up weechat on my rpi
2020-10-23 22:18:08	acdw	oh yeah, i used circe a bit, it was aight
2020-10-23 22:18:16	acdw	but I, too, switched to weechat --- 
2020-10-23 22:18:20	acdw	rpi is a good idea actually
2020-10-23 22:18:29	ericonr	it works great!
2020-10-23 22:18:41	ericonr	circe was really bad about reconnections, as well
2020-10-23 22:18:44	acdw	i just remembered weechat.el
2020-10-23 22:18:45	acdw	omg
2020-10-23 22:18:51	acdw	i know what i'm going to do tonight
2020-10-23 22:18:52	ericonr	weechat is way better
2020-10-23 22:18:57	ericonr	lol, good luck!
2020-10-23 22:19:05	acdw	:D thanks
2020-10-23 22:19:18		kiwi-n2898 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-23 22:20:03	▬▬▶	emerson has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 22:20:38	acdw	ericonr: do you use weechat.el? or you're saying stock weechat is better?
2020-10-23 22:20:59	ericonr	acdw: I didn't even know weechat.el existed!
2020-10-23 22:21:09	acdw	oh lol
2020-10-23 22:21:12	ericonr	here it's just ssh + tmux + weechat
2020-10-23 22:21:13	kiedtl	qq: why on earth does gemini want CRLF?
2020-10-23 22:21:19	acdw	yeah i'm going to try that out
2020-10-23 22:21:31	acdw	kiedtl: I think b/c the other web-style protocols also use CRLF
2020-10-23 22:21:31	ericonr	I wanna try mosh sometime
2020-10-23 22:21:33	acdw	http e.g.
2020-10-23 22:21:36	acdw	mosh is dope 
2020-10-23 22:24:28	admicos	mosh is amazing
2020-10-23 22:25:00	admicos	it doesn't support truecolor or keyboard scroll but being responsive over my terrible internet connection is worth it
2020-10-23 22:25:17		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-23 22:26:32	admicos	ah, truecolor works on master, apparently
2020-10-23 22:26:35	admicos	still no scrollback
2020-10-23 22:41:35		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-23 22:50:55	jcowan	Self-signed certs work for https provided you make sure they are in your system's "trusted cert" directory.  Corporate intranets issue them all the time now.
2020-10-23 22:51:05	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-10-23 23:25:50		wangofett has quit (quit: family time)
2020-10-24 00:00:13	d3fragg3d	what port does gemini:// use? 1965 ?
2020-10-24 00:00:32	emerson	yeah
2020-10-24 00:01:26	d3fragg3d	how do domains work? ermm that might be a really silly question but can I just reuse a domain currently being used for http ?
2020-10-24 00:01:38	d3fragg3d	ermm I think thats a stupid question but I am asking it anyway :D
2020-10-24 00:02:05	emerson	you can, the domain just points to your IP address, so it doesn't matter that it's used by http
2020-10-24 00:02:13	d3fragg3d	yeah i assumed as much
2020-10-24 00:02:14	emerson	because they're on different ports
2020-10-24 00:02:20	d3fragg3d	yeah perfect.
2020-10-24 00:02:37	ericonr	just needs to be a domain you own, so I guess you can't have gemini://google.com 
2020-10-24 00:02:50	d3fragg3d	haha
2020-10-24 00:05:27	d3fragg3d	I cant believe I didnt know about this. Makes me wonder how many other awesome things are out there I havent heard of.
2020-10-24 00:15:16	kiedtl	oh now I see why the port 1965 was picked. 1965 was the launch year of gemini 7
2020-10-24 00:15:45	kiedtl	gemini://vault.transjovian.org/text/en/Gemini%207
2020-10-24 00:20:34		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-24 00:21:16	d3fragg3d	ah! I was wondering that too
2020-10-24 00:23:34	d3fragg3d	I am guessing servers only server static files right? in general? if I wanted something dynamic I would need an extra layer outside of the gemini server?
2020-10-24 00:23:50	kiedtl	I *think* servers can take input?
2020-10-24 00:23:53	kiedtl	yes
2020-10-24 00:24:01	kiedtl	the gemini search engines do
2020-10-24 00:24:10	d3fragg3d	input?
2020-10-24 00:24:16	d3fragg3d	in what way?
2020-10-24 00:24:48	kiedtl	like, the server sends a request for input, and my browser (amfora) shows a popup asking for input
2020-10-24 00:24:58	kiedtl	then i guess the browser sends the input back to the server
2020-10-24 00:25:09		griffin has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-24 00:25:12	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 00:25:26	kiedtl	like, see here, d3fragg3d 
2020-10-24 00:25:29	kiedtl	gemini://gus.guru
2020-10-24 00:25:49	d3fragg3d	you mean the search input right? I wonder how thats rendered.
2020-10-24 00:25:50	d3fragg3d	hmm
2020-10-24 00:25:55	d3fragg3d	interesting
2020-10-24 00:33:45	d3fragg3d	lots of dead links on gus :(
2020-10-24 00:36:01	kiedtl	:(
2020-10-24 00:36:17	kiedtl	afaik it was last crawled... in september?
2020-10-24 00:36:30	kiedtl	weird that so many links should go dead in one month
2020-10-24 00:44:42	d3fragg3d	Unable to connect server irc.tilde.chat port 6667 [Operation timed out <- 
2020-10-24 00:45:13	d3fragg3d	whats a working domain for this server? just want to get away from this in browser version
2020-10-24 00:47:25	kiedtl	tilde.chat requires ssl
2020-10-24 00:47:30	kiedtl	port 6697
2020-10-24 00:47:40	d3fragg3d	ah!
2020-10-24 00:47:46	d3fragg3d	thanks
2020-10-24 00:49:11		d3fragg3d has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-24 01:03:52	kiedtl	np d3
2020-10-24 01:03:55	kiedtl	oh
2020-10-24 01:06:54	kiedtl	Ok, there, my buggy crawler has finished, after retrieving a total of 45k links.
2020-10-24 01:07:48	kiedtl	I'm pretty sure I've missed a substantial portion of the gemspace though. That crawler crashed quite a few many thousand times; I'll bet some links were lost in the process.
2020-10-24 01:17:21	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 01:26:51		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-24 02:12:09	jcowan	kiedtl: Checkpoint, checkpoint, checkpoint!
2020-10-24 02:12:13	jcowan	Save your state.
2020-10-24 02:12:41	kiedtl	Yeah. the bug was in the code that saves the state to the file :V
2020-10-24 02:12:51	kiedtl	Some of the bugs, that is.
2020-10-24 02:13:15	kiedtl	I mean, I could just run the crawler all over again. I'd prefer to not wait another two days, though.
2020-10-24 03:13:02	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 03:51:41		wingy has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-24 03:51:55	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 04:05:51		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-24 06:15:13	▬▬▶	iunio has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 07:19:28	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 08:15:41		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-24 08:49:01		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-24 09:44:45	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 09:46:48		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-24 09:52:25	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 09:56:25		gremax has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-24 10:30:52	nihilazo	I wish gemini had an equivalent of file://. Or maybe it does and amfora just doesn't support it
2020-10-24 10:50:10	raiz	if that's about accessing .gmi files locally, then it's on the client to implement
2020-10-24 10:50:23	raiz	remember, file:// isn't a protocol
2020-10-24 10:50:57	nihilazo	true. I guess I need to try some other clients that will support looking at local .gmi files. I just want to be able to make sure my files are good before they go online
2020-10-24 10:51:45	nihilazo	even though gemtext is a far saner and more sensible format than HTML, which is always full of errors
2020-10-24 11:50:19	dkibi	the best would be a script/serverthat does "expose the current folder as localhost", one of the many server probably can do that :P
2020-10-24 12:03:46	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 12:08:21	nihilazo	also, can links to other pages in gemini be relative or only absolute?
2020-10-24 12:10:07	felix	In practice relative links seem to work fine.
2020-10-24 12:10:22	nihilazo	ok
2020-10-24 12:10:39	felix	Though there may be quirks. On Flounder.online it has to be a filename.
2020-10-24 12:11:07	felix	On Ctrl-c.club it can be something like ./ or ../
2020-10-24 12:11:14	felix	Not sure what server we're running.
2020-10-24 12:12:58	nihilazo	I'm planning to use my own server and set something up. Not sure what server software to use still
2020-10-24 12:14:31	felix	Good luck either way!
2020-10-24 12:18:33	kiedtl	h
2020-10-24 12:18:36	kiedtl	oops
2020-10-24 12:55:26	felix	Come to think of it, that should be the client's problem.
2020-10-24 12:55:47	felix	Since Gemini servers expect full, absolute URLs by definition.
2020-10-24 12:55:54	felix	But it doesn't seem to be so simple.
2020-10-24 13:55:50	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 14:07:14	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 14:19:02	ericonr	felix: gemserv (which I have used as a localhost server) doesn't take relative paths at all
2020-10-24 14:19:34	ericonr	so I kinda implemented realpath(3) and that was that :)
2020-10-24 14:19:50	felix	Well, the server itself shouldn't. It's supposed to expect absolute URLs from the client.
2020-10-24 14:20:17	felix	Including the domain name and schema.
2020-10-24 14:22:05	felix	But Flounder.online isn't just a server, it parses gemtext to render HTML, so.
2020-10-24 14:22:12	felix	Maybe that's why.
2020-10-24 14:23:53	~tiwesdaeg	besides gemserv, do any servers allow executing cgi from the gemini root directory?
2020-10-24 14:27:36	felix	Dunno.
2020-10-24 14:30:16	acdw	you could check all these: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/
2020-10-24 14:32:54	ericonr	felix: oh, I see
2020-10-24 16:58:08	jcowan	Do clients generally assign any meaning to fragments in URLs?
2020-10-24 16:59:14	acdw	i don't think so
2020-10-24 16:59:50	acdw	i think the issue would be, you'd have to have some sort of convention on how to convert fragments to navigable things, since gemtext doesn't have anchors like html
2020-10-24 17:06:56	jcowan	I would propose a subset of the text/plain fragment syntax:  either #line=10 or #line=(10,20), since text/gemini is line-oriented.
2020-10-24 17:07:34	felix	That's fragile to say the least.
2020-10-24 17:07:36	jcowan	This could be shown by highlighting, or scrolling to the first line
2020-10-24 17:13:10	acdw	yeah i'm not a huge fan of that, since as felix said, it's fragile -- when someone edits a document it'll be all out of whack
2020-10-24 17:19:39	jcowan	True.  But it doesn't require any changes to the format either.  
2020-10-24 17:20:03	jcowan	I suspect that other than blogs, most Gemini pages are currently pretty static.
2020-10-24 17:21:14	raiz	why can't you live with limitations of the format?
2020-10-24 17:21:50	raiz	if it is absolutely necessary, you can have a gemtext page as an index, like in a book, and the rest of the chapters presented as separate pages
2020-10-24 17:22:09	raiz	with link to prev/index/next on the end of each page
2020-10-24 17:22:26	felix	Hardly anyone seems content to settle for Gemini's current limitations.
2020-10-24 17:22:40	felix	We discuss extensions more than anything else.
2020-10-24 17:23:09	felix	All of them end up being shot down with prejudice, yet proposals keep coming.
2020-10-24 17:23:09	acdw	if you're talking about :^), that was (mostly) a joke
2020-10-24 17:23:23	acdw	I like the limitations, ultimately, b/c it's an exercise in minimalism
2020-10-24 17:23:26	felix	No, I'm talking about overall trends here.
2020-10-24 17:24:39	felix	Somehow, the appeal to minimalism always wins, yes.
2020-10-24 17:25:39	raiz	speaking of which, is there any where I can reference to check how much progress is done until we have a finalized precise spec?
2020-10-24 17:26:54	acdw	as such, not that i know of, raiz. solderpunk did post on the ML some time ago stating that for all intents and purposes, it's finished
2020-10-24 17:27:05	acdw	like, any changes will be to patch holes, not add new features
2020-10-24 17:27:10	felix	Progress? What progress? Last time I heard, the spec updates in spring were expected to be final.
2020-10-24 17:27:20	raiz	of course, I'm against features as of currently
2020-10-24 17:27:39	acdw	yeah felix, i thought so too
2020-10-24 17:27:46	raiz	"This is an increasingly less rough sketch of an actual spec for Project Gemini.  Although not finalised yet, further changes to the specification are likely to be relatively small."
2020-10-24 17:28:12	raiz	I'm not expecting any more changes, but an official paper
2020-10-24 17:28:43	acdw	oh like, RFC-Style?
2020-10-24 17:28:46	acdw	I don't think there is one
2020-10-24 17:28:54	acdw	You could post on the ML to ask
2020-10-24 17:29:13	raiz	I don't think there would be one, but let me give an example...
2020-10-24 17:30:11	felix	Frankly, I get the distinct impression Gemini's deflating again.
2020-10-24 17:30:44	raiz	refer to 5.4.2, see how much descriptive it is, then refer to 5.5.2 and 5.5.2 and see how much it explains
2020-10-24 17:30:52	raiz	^ acdw 
2020-10-24 17:30:57	raiz	felix: in what way?
2020-10-24 17:31:04	felix	People don't seem to know what to actually do with it.
2020-10-24 17:31:21	raiz	agreed
2020-10-24 17:31:23	felix	There's fatigue related to software. Choosing it. Running it. 
2020-10-24 17:32:11	acdw	idk about "deflating" --- i think it's just not *new* any more, so there's no rush around figuring out things to do with it. 
2020-10-24 17:32:21	acdw	people are still posting, etc. it's just a thing now
2020-10-24 17:32:34	felix	Yeah. Largely the same people though.
2020-10-24 17:33:24	acdw	i don't think that's a problem unless you're a VC
2020-10-24 17:33:29	acdw	-funded company *
2020-10-24 17:33:40	acdw	which gemini isn't, and acutally a lot of the culture is pretty against that
2020-10-24 17:34:21	acdw	raiz: What do you mean? Those two points seem pretty equally descriptifve
2020-10-24 17:34:31	acdw	just seems that links are more complicated than list items
2020-10-24 17:37:04	raiz	it's not about clarification, I get that "* " means mandatory whitespace and ">" means no whitespace, however, 5.4.2 shows examples along with a metasyntax representation like an RFC, while 5.5.2 and 5.5.3 look like they're fron different document
2020-10-24 17:37:14	raiz	I don't know how to say it, but it looks inconsistent
2020-10-24 17:37:31	raiz	I'm assuming 5.5.* were added later and not thought much about
2020-10-24 17:37:52	raiz	that's why I'm eager to see a more professional done spec paper
2020-10-24 17:37:55	acdw	OH okay, yes they were, and now I get what you mean
2020-10-24 17:38:12	acdw	hoenstly i don't think there are plans, but you'dhave to ask solderpunk
2020-10-24 17:38:22	acdw	i'm sure you could try writing it yourself and submitting it for review
2020-10-24 17:38:54	raiz	I'd have that as a possible distant plan, but for now, I'm just a newcomer, I'm still experimenting with the protocol
2020-10-24 17:39:02	acdw	oh okay
2020-10-24 17:39:12	acdw	you liking it?
2020-10-24 17:39:16	raiz	of course
2020-10-24 17:39:19	acdw	:D
2020-10-24 17:40:32	raiz	the only problem I had when I was implementing 5.5.2 and 5.5.3 was when people in this channel suggested I handle lines with whitespace separator and without, but in the mailing list, someone said this is against the spec
2020-10-24 17:40:46	raiz	I assumed because it isn't final, the conventions have changed
2020-10-24 17:40:52	raiz	I was wrong
2020-10-24 17:42:00	acdw	oh right -- well, the thing is, the spec is different than convention
2020-10-24 17:42:37	acdw	as far as lists go, the * has a space because some one might type
2020-10-24 17:42:47	acdw	*something in bold* <- like that, at the beginning of a line
2020-10-24 17:42:56	acdw	and not mean a list -- but rarely do they type
2020-10-24 17:43:02	acdw	>_< or something similar at the beginning
2020-10-24 17:43:09	raiz	lol
2020-10-24 17:43:14	acdw	tho,,,,, i think the whitespace should always be expected, myself
2020-10-24 17:43:29	acdw	so like, in my browser bollux, i go against what's technically spc (I think)
2020-10-24 17:45:00	raiz	in the extreme case of demand, an additional escape syntax can be added
2020-10-24 17:45:06	raiz	\>
2020-10-24 17:45:38	raiz	where \ means print the character next as literal
2020-10-24 17:45:53	raiz	so > doesn't get handled as a quote
2020-10-24 17:46:07	raiz	but yeah, that'll be unnecessary
2020-10-24 17:48:40	acdw	that's been talked about as well, and generally not accepted
2020-10-24 17:48:59	raiz	for the greater good :)
2020-10-24 17:49:14	acdw	I think the convention is generally " >_<", with a space in front
2020-10-24 17:49:29	acdw	well actually the \ will work too --- it just won't be edited out
2020-10-24 17:49:30	raiz	makes sense
2020-10-24 17:49:38	acdw	the greater good :D
2020-10-24 17:53:59	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 17:55:08	jcowan	A zero-width space (U+200B) will also work and will either not be displayed or will be displayed as a space.
2020-10-24 17:56:52	boringcactus	oh that's clever, i hadn't thought of that
2020-10-24 17:56:59	ℹ 	kiedtl is now known as cren
2020-10-24 17:57:31	acdw	oh that's really smart jcowan
2020-10-24 17:57:59	jcowan	Plain text has a lot more bells and whistles than 8-bit text ever had.
2020-10-24 17:58:37	@tomasino	nice that gemtext is utf-8
2020-10-24 18:00:32	acdw	hell yes
2020-10-24 18:00:43	raiz	a true gem
2020-10-24 18:00:56	ℹ 	cren is now known as kiedtl
2020-10-24 18:00:58	acdw	honestly i think if http had been made up with utf-8, there'd be fewer weirdnesses in it
2020-10-24 18:06:37	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 18:07:12	lukee	hello fellow gemini passengers
2020-10-24 18:08:09	lukee	acdw: if gopher had been specified in TLS+JSON we probably wouldnt be here either
2020-10-24 18:08:33	★	lukee rewrites tech history on the hoof
2020-10-24 18:10:52	★	tomasino adds actual gophers into the protocol
2020-10-24 18:12:38	jcowan	At least on Gemini you do have a fellow passenger
2020-10-24 18:12:56	jcowan	Austronaut comment on Mercury:  "You don't fly it, you wear it."
2020-10-24 18:22:09		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-24 18:28:43	ℹ 	kiedtl is now known as spacehare
2020-10-24 18:53:08	acdw	lukee: you're right
2020-10-24 18:53:29	acdw	i think we need a duck protocol
2020-10-24 18:57:03	spacehare	302 ducc taken
2020-10-24 18:57:22	jcowan	All protocols are ducks.  You know, if it implements the duck-walk protocol, and implemennts the quack protocol, etc etc
2020-10-24 18:57:46	jcowan	There's an implementation of JS designed for embedding called DUKTAPE
2020-10-24 19:03:26	lukee	if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck...
2020-10-24 19:03:35	lukee	it could just be a really ugly swan
2020-10-24 19:04:18	acdw	omg yes
2020-10-24 19:04:23	acdw	,grab lukee
2020-10-24 19:04:23	tildebot	[Quotes] Quote added
2020-10-24 19:07:13	lukee	not my quote, but I like it :)
2020-10-24 19:08:59	lukee	seems to be by Timmothy Radman originally
2020-10-24 19:14:57	acdw	haha nice
2020-10-24 19:14:59	lukee	I think I saw it as one of the quotes that GUS puts on the bottom of search results
2020-10-24 19:15:05	acdw	i like those quotes!
2020-10-24 19:18:49	nihilazo	how does GUS work?
2020-10-24 19:20:49	acdw	you mean how do you use it? Or how does it crawL? I have no idea about the ladder
2020-10-24 19:20:54	acdw	s/dd/tt
2020-10-24 19:21:42	nihilazo	how it crawls, and also how it pops up the box thing because I didn't think gemini had anything like forms
2020-10-24 19:22:08	acdw	the crawling thing i have no idea about, however for the input, that's request code 10 (or 11)
2020-10-24 19:23:14	nihilazo	ah, ok
2020-10-24 19:23:31	acdw	basically the server sends "10 Search GUS" (or whatever the text is) and closes the connection. then your client passes that question on to you, and then (I think) encodes it as a query to the URL and resends
2020-10-24 19:23:50	acdw	yeah, that is it
2020-10-24 19:24:01	acdw	so I go to gemini://gus.guru/search
2020-10-24 19:24:18	acdw	server sends 10 Search query
2020-10-24 19:24:31	acdw	your client displays that however it does
2020-10-24 19:24:34	acdw	you type something in
2020-10-24 19:24:50	acdw	your client  requests gemini://gus.guru/search?something
2020-10-24 19:26:18	spacehare	nice, didn't know how that worked previously
2020-10-24 19:26:37	acdw	yep!
2020-10-24 21:41:28	ℹ 	spacehare is now known as kiedtl
2020-10-24 21:53:17	▬▬▶	ram has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 21:55:03	kiedtl	You don't need that much ram
2020-10-24 21:57:00	★	ram exhales
2020-10-24 22:14:59		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-24 22:25:46		ram has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-24 22:29:42	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-24 22:55:16		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-24 23:26:37	★	jcowan tries to find a suitably lightweight HTTP/HTML browser
2020-10-24 23:26:48	jcowan	I'm using Midori at the moment.  Any recommendations?
2020-10-24 23:27:14	jcowan	I wouldn't try to do Internet commerce on this; I just want to surf the mostly-read-only Web.
2020-10-24 23:38:05	raiz	graphical I assume?
2020-10-24 23:39:28	raiz	try netsurf
2020-10-24 23:39:33	raiz	it has few dependencies
2020-10-24 23:40:16	raiz	the engine is built by the devs, not relying on some third party *cough*webkitgtk*cough*
2020-10-24 23:40:57	raiz	https://www.netsurf-browser.org/
2020-10-24 23:41:35	raiz	anyway, I think I'll call it a night
2020-10-24 23:41:40	@tomasino	nite!
2020-10-24 23:49:48	▬▬▶	flamwenco has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 00:22:37	jcowan	raiz: Thanks, I'll look at it.  I think the last time I tried it wouldn't build.
2020-10-25 01:07:05	kiedtl	netsurf is really good.
2020-10-25 01:07:27	kiedtl	There's also dild^Hlo, but it's really basic (having no support for CSS)
2020-10-25 01:45:18	boringcactus	https://qutebrowser.org/ is a thing i've seen some people use, if you want a memorize-all-the-keyboard-shortcuts vim/emacs type experience
2020-10-25 02:06:32		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-25 03:10:33		gbmor has quit (Killed (gbmor (autoyeet)))
2020-10-25 03:11:38	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 06:25:49		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-25 06:26:14	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 06:26:14	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-10-25 07:05:55		Avalon has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-25 07:07:36	▬▬▶	Avalon has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 07:58:00	raiz	although not stated, I assume if a response header contains no <META> then <WHITESPACE> should be discarded and send back only <STATUS><CR><LF>
2020-10-25 07:58:06	raiz	is that correct?
2020-10-25 08:00:13	raiz	I'm thinking instead of literally: <STATUS><SPACE><META><CR><LF>  |  <STATUS>[<SPACE><META>]<CR><LF>
2020-10-25 08:22:55	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 08:48:53	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 10:45:07	raiz	wow, I just realized something...
2020-10-25 10:47:20	raiz	I using netcat to browser gemspace, I realized gemini.circumlunar.space index.gmi had more than one whitespace character in link lines separating link and label, I referred back the spec and I noticed that I didn't realize the spec allowed for any number of whitespace characters including tabs
2020-10-25 10:47:36	raiz	s/^I/I'm/
2020-10-25 10:47:42	raiz	s/browser/browse/
2020-10-25 10:48:17	raiz	now I wonder if this applies to whitespace after #, ## and ###
2020-10-25 10:53:14	raiz	I'm gonna write to the mailing list...
2020-10-25 11:48:13	jcowan	META must always be present, though in 4x, 5x, and 6x response it is not really part of the protocol: it is meant for human eyes only.
2020-10-25 11:50:05	raiz	so for example, if server returns code 40, META would be the error message the client displays?
2020-10-25 11:51:35	raiz	I tried asking for unavailable path at gemini.circumlunar.space using nc, got "51 Not found!", so I assume META is error message for client to display?
2020-10-25 11:51:44	jcowan	So for example "51 Not found" or "51 Never heard of it" or "51 No such luck, Doc" or "51 Non ho idea di quello che stai chiedendo" are all valid responses, but not just "51".
2020-10-25 11:52:00	raiz	I see
2020-10-25 11:53:08	raiz	so if META is required as part of the protocol it will always be present, and if META is not part of the protocol it is also present for information
2020-10-25 11:53:35	raiz	as clients are not forced to handle all specified codes, they can just rely on the server explaining the error
2020-10-25 11:54:04	raiz	brilliant
2020-10-25 12:06:08	jcowan	It's a lot better to rely on the codes.
2020-10-25 12:06:46	jcowan	I once needed to write an FTP server, and I used a lot of silly phrases in the response lines.
2020-10-25 12:06:59	raiz	lol
2020-10-25 12:07:21	jcowan	knowing that while the client might expose them or not, it wouldn't care about the content.
2020-10-25 12:07:38	raiz	of course I will rely on response codes, I'm not writing a client, I'm writing a server this time, so I'll be writing the responses :P
2020-10-25 12:07:54	raiz	51 You're lost buddy
2020-10-25 12:08:07	raiz	jk jk
2020-10-25 12:08:48	raiz	I'm just fascinated by how clients can only read the first digit of the response code and that's it
2020-10-25 12:09:10	raiz	but the best approach would be to read the full header anyway
2020-10-25 12:10:54	raiz	also, because connection closes right after the transaction, this removes the need for fork()
2020-10-25 12:11:38	jcowan	For example, on login failure I sent "530 Don't know yah! Don't know yah! Don't know yah!"
2020-10-25 12:11:46	raiz	lol
2020-10-25 12:13:23	jcowan	AFAIK no one has written a high-throughput server like Apache, nginx, or aolserver.
2020-10-25 12:14:17	raiz	I never read the code for molly-brown, but it can be easily done there with goroutines
2020-10-25 12:14:31	raiz	async handling, that is
2020-10-25 12:15:04	raiz	listener gets a connection, spawn new goroutine and handle it there
2020-10-25 12:16:20	jcowan	yes, that is the One True Way to concurrency IMAO
2020-10-25 12:19:18	jcowan	and yes, m-b does look impressive (and has a great name)
2020-10-25 12:22:00		superprower has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-25 12:24:18	▬▬▶	superprower has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 12:43:23		kiedtl has quit (quit: <Esc>:wq!<Ret>)
2020-10-25 12:50:28	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 13:43:01	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 15:08:14	nihilazo	is molly-brown the recommended software to use for new servers?
2020-10-25 15:10:18	felix	I doubt there's one recommended server, but quite a few people seem to favor Molly Brown.
2020-10-25 15:10:54	nihilazo	ok
2020-10-25 15:32:32	nihilazo	not sure if I want to deal with markdown directly myself to convert to gemtext or convert from hiccup. I think markdown itself is the easier starting point but I have no idea how I'll parse it
2020-10-25 15:34:45	felix	Me either. There's a few converters out there by now.
2020-10-25 15:36:24	nihilazo	the main problem I have is that I have things like bullet-pointed lists of links in my markdown that I want to convert well
2020-10-25 15:36:57	nihilazo	I guess I will just have to try things
2020-10-25 15:36:58	jcowan	The client is likely to support a bullet, though you don't control what it is.
2020-10-25 15:37:15	nihilazo	yeah, a bullet point list of links in markdown is just a bunch of links in gemtext though
2020-10-25 15:37:30	nihilazo	because they wouldn't flow together in weird ways like they would in markdown if it wasn't a list
2020-10-25 16:44:21		exprez135 has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-25 17:32:51	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 18:15:33	nihilazo	I think I got generating my site working! Now to host it
2020-10-25 18:21:50	jcowan	I got Agena working with Lagrange before, but now it isn't.  I set the gopher proxy to localhost, but Lagrange never even contacts it.  (I can do so using openssl, though, so Agena itself is fine.)  I tried gemini://localhost as well, but no help.
2020-10-25 18:22:29	jcowan	Anyone have an idea to try next?
2020-10-25 18:23:47	jcowan	I patched agena to flush its log after every output, but haven't changed it otherwise.
2020-10-25 18:27:07	acdw	nihilazo: awesome :) jcowan: IDK sorry
2020-10-25 18:42:12	nihilazo	should I generate new certificates or use the ones I use for my http site for my gemini site?
2020-10-25 18:44:26	thefunkyspaw	I'm writing an html to gemini parser. It's going to be a while, but my workflow will be this: restructured text -> HTML -> gemini
2020-10-25 18:45:09	thefunkyspaw	As far as lists go, I think I'm going to explicitly escape any bullet points and just use hyphens indented by a tab or a certain number of spaces
2020-10-25 18:45:28	thefunkyspaw	gemini doesn't support nested lists, so I'd rather work around lists than directly use them
2020-10-25 18:47:59	acdw	thefunkyspaw: why not restructured text -> gemini directly?
2020-10-25 18:49:20	thefunkyspaw	restructured text is actually very complicated to parse. I can use pandoc to output html (which I need anyway) and then manipulate the XML document with beautiful soup to get the text I want.
2020-10-25 18:49:44	thefunkyspaw	If I were starting in markdown, I'd definitely convert directly.
2020-10-25 18:50:01	acdw	oh ah, makes senes. you could *maybe* use a lua script with pandoc to define a custom output
2020-10-25 18:50:45	thefunkyspaw	I agree, but my approach to pre-parsers and post-parsers is all in python. I might have to change course, though.
2020-10-25 18:51:16	thefunkyspaw	My "intermediate format" is essentially the beautiful soup model of the pandoc output. I'm not sure how sustainable that is.
2020-10-25 18:51:29	acdw	oh yeah, this isn't a filter, it's a custom writer: https://pandoc.org/MANUAL.html#custom-writers
2020-10-25 18:51:57	acdw	so you do a pandoc -t native | filter | pandoc -f native -t <whatever> ?
2020-10-25 18:52:06	acdw	that's basically what filters do except they use json
2020-10-25 18:52:09	acdw	so you're good
2020-10-25 18:52:13	thefunkyspaw	I use the python pandoc bindings
2020-10-25 18:52:28	thefunkyspaw	its... not ideal 😁
2020-10-25 18:52:57	thefunkyspaw	I can probably muddle through this faster than I can learn lua
2020-10-25 18:53:05	acdw	ah, lol
2020-10-25 18:53:18	acdw	have you tried panflute? It's pretty popular
2020-10-25 18:53:30	thefunkyspaw	no, I haven't, I'll have to read up on it!
2020-10-25 18:53:52	acdw	tho also ... lua is honestly pretty easy. it's very small
2020-10-25 18:54:31	thefunkyspaw	I will probably end up using panflute, lol
2020-10-25 18:54:56	acdw	haha awesome
2020-10-25 18:55:10	nihilazo	I'm running molly brown on my server now but I can't seem to connect to it
2020-10-25 18:55:28	nihilazo	actually, nvm for now, gotta get it running with systemd properly and then I can debug
2020-10-25 18:57:04	thefunkyspaw	A long time ago I decided I was going to master C and Python and use it for everything. Lua is definitely interesting, though. If I ever build a smart watch I'll probably use C or LUA.
2020-10-25 18:57:20	acdw	ooh nice
2020-10-25 18:58:04	~tiwesdaeg	so, tilde.pink just switched to molly-brown
2020-10-25 18:58:09	~tiwesdaeg	we'll see how this goes
2020-10-25 18:58:33	acdw	it works pretty good 
2020-10-25 18:58:41	acdw	at least as far as breadpunk usees it
2020-10-25 18:59:17	thefunkyspaw	probably need to update gemini://tilde.pink/docs/gemini.gmi
2020-10-25 19:07:03	nihilazo	how do I set up keys for my gemini server?
2020-10-25 19:07:30	acdw	the easiest imo is using gemcert from solderpunk
2020-10-25 19:07:48	acdw	but you can do it with a basic openssl command too --- I don't know the specific invocatoin howeve
2020-10-25 19:08:11	acdw	basically, you make the keys, which are files. then you'll pass the keys' paths to the molly-brown invocation on the command line
2020-10-25 19:09:09	nihilazo	ok, I'll generate them with gemcert. Where should I put them in the filesystem?
2020-10-25 19:09:36	acdw	I think molly-brown has default paths ... ? maybe. I'd check the README/man page for that. 
2020-10-25 19:09:49	acdw	Otherwise, wherever you want. Just pass the paths to molly-brown
2020-10-25 19:10:02	acdw	on breadpunk.club, they're in a special folder /bread/somethin
2020-10-25 19:11:43	nihilazo	ok
2020-10-25 19:15:35	nihilazo	OK, I got the server running! But when I try and go there in amfora, it says "Permanent Failure: No proxying to other hosts or ports!"
2020-10-25 19:15:54	nihilazo	I'm not sure what's going on, unless nginx is stepping in somewhere and messing stuff up
2020-10-25 19:16:52	nihilazo	but I can't see why that would be happening. Molly brown isn't trying to do anything proxy-related
2020-10-25 19:17:29	acdw	what domain name is molly-brown set up to host?
2020-10-25 19:17:59	nihilazo	ahhh
2020-10-25 19:18:03	nihilazo	one sec
2020-10-25 19:18:38	nihilazo	IT WORKS!
2020-10-25 19:19:16	acdw	Aewsome!
2020-10-25 19:19:21	acdw	the host change worked? 
2020-10-25 19:20:47		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-25 19:22:16	nihilazo	yeah, got some content troubles but itwont.work's gemini 1 has had a successful launch!
2020-10-25 19:22:18	nihilazo	:D
2020-10-25 19:22:29	nihilazo	just gotta fix some issues with my converter
2020-10-25 19:22:37	acdw	oh nice :)
2020-10-25 19:46:41	nihilazo	gemini://itwont.work
2020-10-25 19:46:53	nihilazo	it's live! If anything is broken please tell me, I want to fix it
2020-10-25 19:55:04	raiz	nice
2020-10-25 20:26:24		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-10-25 20:44:02	acdw	awesome
2020-10-25 20:44:54	acdw	hey i see it! nice job nihilazo!
2020-10-25 20:45:46	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 20:58:01	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 21:09:38	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 21:27:54	zephryn	hello again!
2020-10-25 21:31:06	acdw	o/
2020-10-25 21:31:49	zephryn	i need to spend more time on here
2020-10-25 21:32:04	zephryn	been busy messing with matrix for the past few days
2020-10-25 21:37:03	acdw	ooh matricx
2020-10-25 21:37:56	xfnw	matrix--
2020-10-25 21:40:19	▬▬▶	d3fragg3d has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 21:41:04	d3fragg3d	any documentation around on creating web sites for gemini? whats possible? what isnt etc?
2020-10-25 21:41:39	acdw	Check out the spec on gemini.circumlunar.space, there's text/gemini on there
2020-10-25 21:41:55	acdw	however gemini can serve any file type.... but a lot of clients won't bother rendering e.g. html
2020-10-25 21:43:59		dctrud has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-10-25 21:44:17	d3fragg3d	acdw: what do you mean? in https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/specification.html ?
2020-10-25 21:44:26	acdw	yes
2020-10-25 21:44:54	acdw	check out section 5
2020-10-25 21:45:06	acdw	or there's a cheat sheet around somewhere
2020-10-25 21:45:24	d3fragg3d	ok I'll read through it. you got a link to the cheatsheet?
2020-10-25 21:46:43	acdw	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/cheatsheet.gmi
2020-10-25 21:47:03	acdw	or https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/cheatsheet.gmi
2020-10-25 21:47:53	d3fragg3d	cheers
2020-10-25 21:48:19	acdw	:)
2020-10-25 21:50:56		tildebot has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-25 21:51:04	▬▬▶	tildebot has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 21:52:42		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-25 23:13:34	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-25 23:16:32	zephryn	welcome back
2020-10-25 23:17:59		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-25 23:29:23		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-25 23:46:08		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-26 00:02:15	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 01:53:32	thefunkyspaw	converting html to gemtext poses the kind of questions you thought you'd only have to answer in an algorithms class
2020-10-26 01:54:04	thefunkyspaw	like, "write a recursive function that acts on all bottom level child nodes only once
2020-10-26 01:54:29	thefunkyspaw	I'm enjoying it, but my brain is also pretty tired
2020-10-26 01:56:19	kiedtl	lol. have fun :p
2020-10-26 01:56:32	kiedtl	also, I'd like to see the result of whatever you're doing, when you're done :)
2020-10-26 01:57:13	thefunkyspaw	I look forward to sharing! It might be neat to see what happens when sites like cnn are converted
2020-10-26 01:57:31	kiedtl	oooh. that'd be pretty interesting
2020-10-26 01:57:33	kiedtl	gemnews!
2020-10-26 02:17:00		d3fragg3d has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-26 02:25:59	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 02:29:50	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 03:25:19		wangofett has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-26 03:40:03		coleman has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-26 04:40:16		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-26 05:25:16		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-26 05:25:34	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 06:25:44		julienxx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-26 06:26:43	▬▬▶	julienxx has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 06:26:44	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o julienxx] by ChanServ
2020-10-26 07:03:05	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 09:13:59	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 09:16:13	lukee	thefunkyspaw: you might want to take a look at https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gemini - which does exactly that, written in Go. There is also html2gmi that wraps it as a command line app. 
2020-10-26 09:17:24	lukee	also https://github.com/LukeEmmet/duckling-proxy which is a http via gemini proxy which converts the content on the fly
2020-10-26 09:39:54		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-26 10:08:32	thefunkyspaw	lukee / that looks pretty neat!
2020-10-26 11:20:43		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-26 11:44:54	jcowan	I figured out why Lagrange proxy configuration wasn't working for me: you have to specify the proxy host with an IP address, because whatever Lagrange uses for hostname resolution does not respect /etc/hosts, at least on Mac.
2020-10-26 11:45:20	jcowan	You can't access a local Gemini server as "gemini://localhost/blah/blah" either.
2020-10-26 11:45:28	jcowan	Filing a bug...
2020-10-26 12:31:42	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 12:49:40	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 13:29:23	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 13:51:35	▬▬▶	ew0k has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 15:11:45	▬▬▶	arcane has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 15:25:50	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 15:40:09	ℹ 	acdw is now known as z
2020-10-26 15:40:30	ℹ 	z is now known as acdw
2020-10-26 16:46:53		raiz has quit (quit: EOF)
2020-10-26 18:10:23		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-26 18:53:38	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 19:09:39	▬▬▶	arcane_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 19:10:03	▬▬▶	arcane__ has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 19:12:19		arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-26 19:12:28		arcane__ has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-26 19:12:48		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-26 19:13:43		arcane_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-26 19:17:55	▬▬▶	arcane has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 19:29:20	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 19:40:28	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 19:40:52	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 19:44:29		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-26 19:56:41		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-26 20:03:29	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 20:57:32	▬▬▶	coleman has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 21:02:02	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 21:04:04	epoch	if a gemini client isn't sending SNI, should I refuse the request?
2020-10-26 21:04:22	epoch	very little about SNI is in the spec or best practices
2020-10-26 21:04:27	epoch	except "SNI is mandatory"
2020-10-26 21:04:45	epoch	and "SNI" isn't in any of the subjects of any mails in the list
2020-10-26 21:08:22	▬▬▶	shou has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 21:12:19		shou has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-26 21:12:32	rb100	refusing it seems a little extreme
2020-10-26 21:12:49	CommunistWolf	if you know how to serve it, might as well
2020-10-26 21:13:18	CommunistWolf	just don't do a caddy and return a random site if you can't work out which one to serve
2020-10-26 21:13:49	epoch	so... spec should be updated to say SNI is /not/ mandatory?
2020-10-26 21:13:56	rb100	most web servers "just serve" one
2020-10-26 21:14:28	epoch	(I sent the question to the mailing list too btw)
2020-10-26 21:14:45	rb100	no, i would say you should be forgiving of clients that aren't following spec to the letter
2020-10-26 21:16:35	▬▬▶	acdw4 has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 21:16:44		acdw has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by acdw4))
2020-10-26 21:16:44	ℹ 	acdw4 is now known as acdw
2020-10-26 21:16:51	▬▬▶	acdw19 has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 21:17:55	CommunistWolf	no, I think the spec should still be that it is mandatory
2020-10-26 21:18:04	CommunistWolf	it's the old saw of strict in what you send and generous in what you receive
2020-10-26 21:18:35	epoch	yeah
2020-10-26 21:19:14	CommunistWolf	if your process knows it only has a single site to serve, it doesn't particularly hurt to ignore SNI
2020-10-26 21:19:32	CommunistWolf	I'm sure the ML will have Opinions though ^^
2020-10-26 21:20:14	epoch	I have a couple sites. If you're not using SNI I'll just pick which site based on request
2020-10-26 21:20:20	epoch	and you won't be able to use the proxy
2020-10-26 21:20:36	epoch	right now I'm using SNI != request to detect proxying attempts
2020-10-26 21:21:17	CommunistWolf	is the certificate valid for all the domains ?
2020-10-26 21:21:39	epoch	yeah, I didn't bother to make a different cert for each domain.
2020-10-26 21:21:46	CommunistWolf	SNI is pretty much irrelevant in that case ^^
2020-10-26 21:22:38	CommunistWolf	it determines the certificate you need to use for the TLS session, but once that's done you can use the request URL - it's analogous to the Host: header in HTTP
2020-10-26 21:24:39	epoch	I just have an if SNI == proxy, then pass the whole request to the proxying code.
2020-10-26 21:25:25	epoch	not sure how the other gemini proxies actually work.
2020-10-26 21:42:14	▬▬▶	tomasino has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 21:42:14	ℹ 	Topic for #gemini is "Gemini (protocol) enthusiasts - gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | gopher://gemini.circumlunar.space/ | publically logged in gemspace"
2020-10-26 21:42:14	ℹ 	Topic set by tomasino (~tomasino@oper.tilde.chat) on Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:06:53
2020-10-26 21:42:14	ℹ 	Channel #gemini: 122 nicks (4 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 118 normals)
2020-10-26 21:42:14	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o tomasino] by ChanServ
2020-10-26 21:42:40	ℹ 	Channel created on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:41:57
2020-10-26 21:44:37		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-26 21:59:10		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-26 22:00:21	ℹ 	acdw19 is now known as acdw
2020-10-26 22:17:35		paper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-26 22:24:37	jcowan	I see little point in SNI, really, since Gemini passes around full URLs, which makes virtual hosting trivial.
2020-10-26 22:32:58	▬▬▶	shou has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 22:33:29	kevinsan	i read the SNI thing as 'servers must support it' rather than 'servers must insist on it'
2020-10-26 22:35:01	CommunistWolf	jcowan: host both foo.com and bar.com on the same server, using mainstream certs, and it quickly becomes useful
2020-10-26 22:36:58	kevinsan	CommunistWolf: is this because of a) the hassle of reissuing certs, and/or b) lack of extended domain support by some issuers?
2020-10-26 22:37:03	jcowan	If you are a public hosting service, I can see that.  But if both domains are under the same authority, looking inside the URL is less error-prone
2020-10-26 22:37:57	CommunistWolf	it's basically impossible to get a CA-signed certificate for two unrelated domains as a normal
2020-10-26 22:38:27	CommunistWolf	and if you have two separate domains, you need to know which one to send before you can read the gemini URL inside the TLS session that will be established
2020-10-26 22:38:32	CommunistWolf	two separate certificates*
2020-10-26 22:39:35	jcowan	I see, thanks
2020-10-26 22:43:21	kevinsan	epoch: are you in the process of adding to the corpus of gemini servers?
2020-10-26 22:49:49	shou	hi, what is the right cgi header syntax? "Content-type:text/gemini;charset=utf-8\r\n\r\n" returns a 42 with the server logging it as "an invalid gemini response header"
2020-10-26 22:52:18	kevinsan	shou: the cgi script should output a response code as per the spec. e.g. 20 text/gemini\r\n
2020-10-26 22:55:55		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-26 22:59:09	shou	ah that worked thank you.
2020-10-26 23:11:21	epoch	kevinsan: I've had my own gemini server for quite a while now, I just don't advertise it much.
2020-10-26 23:11:45	epoch	it is a shell-script ran by a slightly modified stunnel
2020-10-26 23:12:34	kevinsan	i think i may have seen it a while back - really cool use of tools!
2020-10-26 23:13:59	epoch	yeah, I was thinking I'd talked about it to either you or someone else who is in the same brain bucket.
2020-10-26 23:18:18	epoch	gemini://thebackupbox.net/~epoch/blog/stunnel
2020-10-26 23:20:50	epoch	(also same link, but http:// or https:// will work. my httpd auto-converts gemini to html server-side)
2020-10-26 23:38:13		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-26 23:41:03		lukee_ has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-26 23:47:30	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-26 23:50:05	kevinsan	it's a neat config, really no different from any other vhost-capable server.
2020-10-26 23:51:33	boringcactus	cursed project name: gemginx
2020-10-26 23:59:55	acdw	lol
2020-10-27 00:00:11		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-27 00:09:00	thefunkyspaw	lol, I love it
2020-10-27 00:13:24	boringcactus	once https://crowbar-lang.org exists enough that i could write gemginx in Crowbar, i might do that
2020-10-27 00:13:33	boringcactus	but i need to take it one overly audacious side project at a time
2020-10-27 00:15:05	CommunistWolf	boringcactus: I bumped into your crowbar articles today, and was wondering if you'd bumped into zig
2020-10-27 00:15:11	boringcactus	yeah
2020-10-27 00:15:26	acdw	ooh crowbar loooks neat
2020-10-27 00:15:32	CommunistWolf	excellent, I won't bore you to death with it then ^^
2020-10-27 00:15:48	boringcactus	it's definitely intriguing
2020-10-27 00:17:04	jcowan	Well, I've read the first post (about Rust) and I agree 100%
2020-10-27 00:18:18	jcowan	Well.  I disagree about concurrency.  (a) Concurrency is not parallelism!  (b) Goroutines are good concurrency.
2020-10-27 00:19:24	jcowan	I see that's someone else's post, so you are off the hook then.
2020-10-27 00:22:32	jcowan	Okay, I think your type "simplification" is a complification, and that's a Lisp programmer speaking.
2020-10-27 00:23:52	boringcactus	well
2020-10-27 00:24:13	jcowan	I want something that you can pronounce "xyzzy is a pointer to a pointer to an array of ints of size 10.  Which means it has to be readable left to right; "auto i: **int[10].  Or better, preferably
2020-10-27 00:24:58	jcowan	Also, compiling to C is commonplace,  It provides decently fast but still portable compilers.  But that's by the way.
2020-10-27 00:25:05	★	jcowan reads on
2020-10-27 00:25:53	boringcactus	my goal there is to divorce the type from the variable name while preserving C syntax in maximally simple cases
2020-10-27 00:27:29	jcowan	I think you have to be consistently left to right (as above) or consistently right to left, or it will never be readable in hard cases.
2020-10-27 00:27:51	jcowan	So the variable name should be either at the left modulo a keyword, or it should be at the right.
2020-10-27 00:28:31	boringcactus	i mean, crowbar has the variable name at the right
2020-10-27 00:29:03	jcowan	That's fine, but then you should read right to left for everything else.
2020-10-27 00:29:12	boringcactus	((int[10])*)* xyzzy
2020-10-27 00:29:15	boringcactus	you kinda do
2020-10-27 00:29:27	boringcactus	pointer to pointer to array-size-10 of int
2020-10-27 00:29:46	jcowan	Okay, but then why the parens?  int[10]** xyzzy would mean exactly the same thing.
2020-10-27 00:29:55	jcowan	See cdecl.org
2020-10-27 00:30:02	jcowan	(there's a CLI version, too)
2020-10-27 00:30:19	boringcactus	ahh there's a whole fuckin website for it too
2020-10-27 00:30:56	boringcactus	the parens become important when you've got, say, the pointer-to-const vs const-pointer dichotomy i bring up in the post
2020-10-27 00:31:51	jcowan	If it's consistently RTL, then **const means a const pointer to a pointer, and *const* means a pointer to a const pointer.
2020-10-27 00:32:01	boringcactus	yeah but you have to remember how it works
2020-10-27 00:32:10	boringcactus	and why memorize when you can read
2020-10-27 00:32:15	jcowan	Anyway, the important thing is the consistent order
2020-10-27 00:32:16	ericonr	jcowan: does cdecl segfault if you tab inside it?
2020-10-27 00:32:42	ericonr	since we are talking about it
2020-10-27 00:33:09	boringcactus	oh i asked cdecl for "declare xyzzy as pointer to pointer to array 10 of int" and it said "int (**xyzzy)[10]"
2020-10-27 00:33:31	boringcactus	so compared to that i think crowbar is simpler
2020-10-27 00:33:57	jcowan	Compared to which, the English (without the little words) or the C?  Anything consistent is better than C.
2020-10-27 00:34:02	boringcactus	the C
2020-10-27 00:35:08	boringcactus	i'm trying to get a Pareto-optimal balance of "good" and "like C"
2020-10-27 00:35:16	★	jcowan nods
2020-10-27 00:35:18	boringcactus	because those are in conflict
2020-10-27 00:35:19	boringcactus	lol
2020-10-27 00:35:36	jcowan	That's better than C++, which is Dostoyevsky-pessimal
2020-10-27 00:35:52	jcowan	You can't make it worse without making at least some C++ programmers better off.
2020-10-27 00:36:16	boringcactus	jfisdjiofjdsaiojfadsosdfjid
2020-10-27 00:39:39	jcowan	Moving on.  Assignments should be statements, not expressions.  That fits in with eliminating prefix ++ and --.  
2020-10-27 00:40:31	jcowan	However, the syntax of for should be for(stmt{, stmt}; expr; stmt{, stmt}), where {} is repetition.
2020-10-27 00:40:41	jcowan	And then the comma operator can go
2020-10-27 00:40:45	jcowan	(as you already say)
2020-10-27 00:42:14	jcowan	Are octal literals really useful?  6-bit bytes and the PDP-11 are pretty dead.
2020-10-27 00:42:25	boringcactus	permissions, allegedly
2020-10-27 00:42:51	boringcactus	i got rid of em, somebody said i shouldn't, it's not like they actively cause problems if you assign a good prefix (i.e. not 0)
2020-10-27 00:43:25	★	jcowan nods.
2020-10-27 00:44:15	jcowan	I think you should simply adopt Unicode's standard identifier spec rather than making a slightly-different one.  For one thing, normalization form KC turns roman IV into I followed by V, which is preferred.
2020-10-27 00:45:07	jcowan	I also think you shoudl adopt Unicode's Whitespace class; you are close to it and might as well just use it.
2020-10-27 00:46:23	jcowan	Does case imply fallthrough?
2020-10-27 00:49:08	boringcactus	oh right unicode has an identifier spec
2020-10-27 00:49:10	boringcactus	i honestly forgot
2020-10-27 00:49:50	boringcactus	uhhh case does not imply fallthrough, and i have not yet decided if i want a replacement
2020-10-27 00:51:26	jcowan	Well, you can add fallthrough as a statement.
2020-10-27 00:51:34	jcowan	I also like "case 1-10:"
2020-10-27 00:52:56	ericonr	boringcactus: 0o
2020-10-27 00:53:00	ericonr	for octal numbers :P
2020-10-27 00:53:07	boringcactus	yeah i'm doing that
2020-10-27 00:53:45	ericonr	I like the 0b 0o 0x triad
2020-10-27 00:54:26	ericonr	but that's the embedded dev in me
2020-10-27 00:54:29	boringcactus	i've seen 0c suggested in other contexts, and i like that it's clever, but it's also
2020-10-27 00:54:32	boringcactus	clever
2020-10-27 00:55:30		shou has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-27 01:01:49	jcowan	I'd like oP followed by hex digits to specify an IEEE single or double float precisely.
2020-10-27 01:02:23	jcowan	s/oP/0P
2020-10-27 01:02:37	jcowan	or perhaps a different letter
2020-10-27 01:02:56	boringcactus	why P?
2020-10-27 01:03:12	boringcactus	oh, for precise
2020-10-27 01:03:25	boringcactus	i was thinking 0f, for floating-point
2020-10-27 01:03:28	boringcactus	or maybe 0xf
2020-10-27 01:03:36	boringcactus	wait
2020-10-27 01:03:42	boringcactus	can't do 0xf, that overlaps with legal hex
2020-10-27 01:03:52	boringcactus	but 0fx might work,
2020-10-27 01:04:31	ericonr	hm
2020-10-27 01:04:59	ericonr	for floats I honestly like the 1.0f and 1.0d
2020-10-27 01:05:01	ericonr	notation
2020-10-27 01:05:32	ericonr	typing information is a suffix, base information is a prefix
2020-10-27 01:09:40	jcowan	Makes sense to me.  Another thing I'd like to do without is values like 1. and .2
2020-10-27 01:09:51	jcowan	Decimal points should come between digits.
2020-10-27 01:10:01	boringcactus	yeah
2020-10-27 01:10:14	jcowan	0f would be okay
2020-10-27 01:11:51	ericonr	jcowan: I kinda impart meaning on 1. constants :P
2020-10-27 01:12:15	ericonr	"I want a float, but it this is an exact 1"
2020-10-27 01:12:29	ℹ 	epoch is now known as reallyAwesomeHandle
2020-10-27 01:13:22	jcowan	how is that different from 1.0?
2020-10-27 01:14:05	jcowan	And it's easier to read f(1.0, 2.0, 3.0) than f(1., 2., 3.)
2020-10-27 01:16:36	ℹ 	reallyAwesomeHandle is now known as epoch
2020-10-27 01:25:47		wangofett has quit (quit: bbj time)
2020-10-27 01:55:05	ericonr	not sure
2020-10-27 01:55:35	ericonr	using 1.0 feels like putting significant digits where there should be none
2020-10-27 02:03:02	jcowan	If you are dealing with IEEE floats (which is the only practical thing nowadays) then the number of significant digits is fixed.
2020-10-27 02:15:07		acdw has quit (quit: bye, love you)
2020-10-27 02:36:30	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 02:42:54	ericonr	jcowan: if I give you the result of an experiment as 1.50 instead of 1.5, that can have different meanings
2020-10-27 02:43:07	ericonr	that's the logic I'm applying in this case
2020-10-27 02:43:15		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-27 02:43:23	jcowan	Then you probably want to use arbitrary-precision decimal floats.
2020-10-27 02:52:01		zephryn has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-10-27 02:52:49	CoopDot	floating point and fixed point should be different things (not talking about a specific language)
2020-10-27 04:15:13	jcowan	I would say, exact and inexact values should be different.
2020-10-27 04:15:40	jcowan	What does a non-interactive client normally do on a 1x response?
2020-10-27 04:35:09	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 04:37:00		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-10-27 04:54:12	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 05:53:38		zephryn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-27 05:57:45	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 05:59:18	boringcactus	gemini://crowbar-lang.org ayy my multi-track side project drifting is paying off*
2020-10-27 05:59:23	boringcactus	*no it isn't but let me dream
2020-10-27 06:01:23		zephryn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-27 06:01:30	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 06:04:37		zephryn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-27 06:04:44	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 06:06:56		zephryn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-27 06:07:03	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 06:08:53		zephryn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-27 06:09:00	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 06:09:02		zephryn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-27 06:09:10	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 06:11:56		zephryn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-27 06:13:31	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 06:15:36	zephryn	apologies for all the leave-join messages, was trying to get weechat to work
2020-10-27 06:26:20	alex11	my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
2020-10-27 06:30:50		zephryn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-10-27 07:11:25	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 07:58:32		__R__ has quit (quit: poof)
2020-10-27 08:01:30	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 08:02:15	zephryn	there we go, (hopefully) no more reconnecting for a while
2020-10-27 11:25:32	▬▬▶	Spacer has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 13:11:54	thefunkyspaw	zephryn: its nbd, we can filter leave/join messages in our clients
2020-10-27 13:12:59	thefunkyspaw	I feel like most "hard-core" IRC users stay connected perpetually and only generate leave/join messages while configuring their clients
2020-10-27 13:13:49	Sario528	I know several people who use IRC daily and still log on and off each day
2020-10-27 13:14:19	@tomasino	smart filters ftw
2020-10-27 13:29:25		Spacer has quit (G-lined: nazi scum)
2020-10-27 13:31:01	▬▬▶	Spacer has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 13:33:21		Spacer has left #gemini
2020-10-27 13:40:34	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 13:54:25	ew0k	Sario528: I know a few too
2020-10-27 13:54:45	ew0k	I log out when I need to reboot my server.
2020-10-27 13:54:54	ew0k	which I guess I should do more often, actually
2020-10-27 14:04:00	emerson	i usually display all join/part messages but i have them in a much dimmer color
2020-10-27 14:06:13	Sario528	I like the way IRCCloud collapses joins/parts, so you can see them but they don't take nearly as much screen space
2020-10-27 14:34:05	ew0k	thelounge.chat does the same
2020-10-27 14:55:34	epoch	I think the email I sent to the list got rejected by a bunch of people on the list
2020-10-27 14:56:14	epoch	because either the list is setup wrong, or I'm too strict with the spf/dkim/dmarc stuff
2020-10-27 14:57:24		arcane has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-27 15:02:24	CoopDot	I got that email about SNI, but Gmail is only showing it because I have a filter telling Gmail to never put Gemini ML mail in the spam box
2020-10-27 15:03:43	CoopDot	Gmail also insists I should put it in the spam box myself
2020-10-27 15:06:44	epoch	I think I'll just make the SFP record less strict until I figure out exactly what's wrong
2020-10-27 15:33:17	jcowan	boringcactus: Well, Crowbar is paying off in Whuffie, at least
2020-10-27 15:44:16		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-27 16:17:39	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 16:18:44	boringcactus	lmao
2020-10-27 16:19:05	nixo	Hi! Are the two gemini search engines still maintained? I see that huston gives a "certificate expired" error, while GUS index has not been updated in a month (Index updated on: 2020-09-25)
2020-10-27 16:30:20	kiedtl	Apparently GUS used to index content every few days, but they stopped for some reason :(
2020-10-27 16:30:32	kiedtl	gemini://gus.guru/statistics/historical/overall
2020-10-27 16:30:57	CoopDot	Someone posted in the ML about that. GUS is doing a crawl right now but it takes a few days to complete.
2020-10-27 16:37:50	kiedtl	does GUS have any docs on what methods they use to index gemspace?
2020-10-27 16:41:49		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-27 16:47:19	nixo	kiedtl: thanks! I'll subscribe to the ML then
2020-10-27 16:49:15	CoopDot	Natalie Pendragon might hoa
2020-10-27 16:49:44	CoopDot	Natalie Pendragon might have writen something about than in the ML
2020-10-27 16:50:35	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 17:09:22	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 17:22:04	kiedtl	it appears the GUS' source code is here: https://git.sr.ht/~natpen/gus
2020-10-27 17:22:17	kiedtl	at least, from reading the mailing list
2020-10-27 17:22:28	kiedtl	oh, that 404's. let me see...
2020-10-27 17:24:53	jcowan	Less than two years old, and already bitrot.
2020-10-27 17:25:51	acdw	dang 2 years of gemini already?
2020-10-27 17:26:50	CoopDot	It started last year, I think
2020-10-27 17:27:33	kiedtl	natpen decided to self-host for some reason.
2020-10-27 17:27:35	kiedtl	https://natpen.net/code/gus/
2020-10-27 17:28:21	acdw	looks like solderpunk's first post in that direction was 2019-03-03
2020-10-27 17:28:25	acdw	so ... 1.5 years
2020-10-27 17:28:27	acdw	ish
2020-10-27 17:28:29	acdw	sort of
2020-10-27 17:32:17	CoopDot	3/3 is an easy date to remember, we could declare it "Gemini Day 2021" next year
2020-10-27 17:41:28	acdw	lol awesome
2020-10-27 17:41:32	acdw	twin 3's!
2020-10-27 17:54:41	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 17:58:07	ew0k	Big celebration on March 3rd 2033 😄
2020-10-27 18:00:18		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-27 18:16:50		nixo has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-27 18:51:50	ew0k	https://branch.climateaction.tech/2020/10/10/hands-on-sustainable-web-design/ <— this brings up a fair number of reasons why I hate the web of today
2020-10-27 18:53:55	felix	We could start by shutting down BitCoin and the like.
2020-10-27 18:56:49	alex11	"The environmental footprint of the digital world seems intangible to most. Yet our digital systems generate more emissions than the aviation industry."
2020-10-27 18:56:50	alex11	dude.
2020-10-27 18:56:54	alex11	i wasn't aware of that
2020-10-27 18:56:59	felix	I doubt it's true.
2020-10-27 18:58:01	felix	Been following some people who track the aviation industry.
2020-10-27 18:59:25	felix	Also, our only new TV was the very first one in this home, almost 40 years ago. It lasted for 15.
2020-10-27 18:59:39	felix	My Palm served me for almost as long too, on and off.
2020-10-27 19:00:04	felix	So how about, "dude, you're projecting".
2020-10-27 19:01:27	thefunkyspaw	I recently learned that android devices older than 4.4 cannot interoperate with the current TCP protocols used for https
2020-10-27 19:01:59	thefunkyspaw	I've always thought https / ssl was unnecessary for most of the web and was being pushed as a way to drive consumption
2020-10-27 19:02:11	felix	My crappy old tablet stuck with 4.0 can still surf the web just fine.
2020-10-27 19:02:41	thefunkyspaw	Most web servers still offer older TCP modes, but even offering those modes gets your server downgraded on compliance tests
2020-10-27 19:02:53	ericonr	but TCP isn't implemented in servers D:
2020-10-27 19:02:57	ericonr	it's kernel level
2020-10-27 19:03:17	admicos	I assume it's SSL/TLS versions and not TCP
2020-10-27 19:03:21	admicos	iirc TCP is still TCP
2020-10-27 19:03:29	felix	Obviously.
2020-10-27 19:03:45	thefunkyspaw	Sure, I get them mixed up because I'm not a network guy
2020-10-27 19:03:47	felix	If anything, certs will expire and not be updated.
2020-10-27 19:04:02	felix	My Nokia E5 ran into this issue and I had to retire it.
2020-10-27 19:04:20	ericonr	huh, I hadn't thought of that
2020-10-27 19:04:20	felix	Still works fine, but only as a phone. :P
2020-10-27 19:04:43	ericonr	if you can't put your own browser, it might just be impossible to use it
2020-10-27 19:04:57	thefunkyspaw	This is really something that should be fixable as a software update, like backporting new ciphers to old hardware
2020-10-27 19:05:25	ericonr	eh, it's not ciphers that are the issue
2020-10-27 19:05:25	admicos	yes but where's the money in that
2020-10-27 19:05:25	ericonr	a lot of server will accept shit level SSL
2020-10-27 19:05:35	felix	And yes, I make a point not to redirect on my websites.
2020-10-27 19:05:44	thefunkyspaw	I'm re-running qualsys against my server so I can get the explanation again
2020-10-27 19:05:52	ericonr	felix: _that_ is shitty!
2020-10-27 19:05:53	thefunkyspaw	it takes forever
2020-10-27 19:05:54	felix	I link to the https version by default, but that's it.
2020-10-27 19:05:56	ericonr	redirection, I mean
2020-10-27 19:06:12	ericonr	forcing https:// can block people who would otherwise be able to access the content
2020-10-27 19:06:19	felix	Exactly!
2020-10-27 19:07:21	thefunkyspaw	Alright: Android TLS version support https://support.globalsign.com/ssl/general-ssl/tls-protocol-compatibility
2020-10-27 19:07:33	thefunkyspaw	SSL labs notice about grade capping https://blog.qualys.com/product-tech/2018/11/19/grade-change-for-tls-1-0-and-tls-1-1-protocols
2020-10-27 19:08:30	ericonr	I wonder if something like firefox mobile could just ship nss inside the apk
2020-10-27 19:08:40	ericonr	then they wouldn't depend on the OS's support
2020-10-27 19:09:11	felix	I think F-Droid does something to help with the issue?
2020-10-27 19:10:01	thefunkyspaw	There seems to be a workaround: https://ankushg.com/posts/tls-1.2-on-android/
2020-10-27 19:10:42	admicos	if an android app is foss you might bne able to use google's conscrypt library to support newer ssl versions
2020-10-27 19:10:54	admicos	https://f-droid.org/en/2020/05/29/android-updates-and-tls-connections.html
2020-10-27 19:11:18	thefunkyspaw	fdroid sure is slow today, lol
2020-10-27 19:12:13	thefunkyspaw	If apps have to have code added for tls connections to work, I think most of the internet connected apps will stop working with the exception of browsers and maybe apps like facebook. Smaller apps won't have the dev hours to mess with this.
2020-10-27 19:13:03	admicos	aside from updating android, which manufacturers sure love to do (!), there isn't any other proper way afaik
2020-10-27 19:13:10	ericonr	gah
2020-10-27 19:13:23	ericonr	I hope mainline gives reasonable results there
2020-10-27 19:14:02	thefunkyspaw	I'm just hoping for OSH phones to pull through for us. 
2020-10-27 19:14:28	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 19:14:28	wgreenhouse	as noted in the blogpost, mainline addressed this by offering "google play services" which is basically a "standard library" application that can be updated separately from when the OEM ended support for the phone
2020-10-27 19:14:58	wgreenhouse	the author is proposing some ways to do the same thing without relying on the play store to provide it
2020-10-27 19:15:07	thefunkyspaw	yeah
2020-10-27 19:16:52	thefunkyspaw	I learned a lot today. Thanks for providing that link!
2020-10-27 19:17:06	▬▬▶	shou has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 19:21:54	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 19:27:00		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-27 19:27:27	ew0k	I've had to retire two budget phones because the OS kept getting bigger when upgrading and the phones didn't have enough memory to fit new upgrades
2020-10-27 19:27:34	acdw	ooof
2020-10-27 19:27:41	ew0k	not just the OS, ofcourse. Apps too
2020-10-27 19:27:51	acdw	that kind of stuff mkaes me think a jitterbug would be a good investment
2020-10-27 19:28:20	ew0k	Eventually I'd removed every app I didn't *absolutely need*, but could no longer update the 2FA app needed to do my online banking... so... well
2020-10-27 19:29:34	ew0k	I hate how *software* obsoletes perfectly fine hardware at an alarming rate
2020-10-27 19:30:39	ericonr	yeah android had a big issue with bloating
2020-10-27 19:30:51	thefunkyspaw	Kind of related: I really hate 2FA. Its a great idea in theory, but it is rarely executed well and usually sucks.
2020-10-27 19:30:53	boringcactus	if you're fine with your phone being useless as a phone there's always https://postmarketos.org/, which iirc can't actually make calls on most hardware but aside from that does alright for itself
2020-10-27 19:30:57	ericonr	thefunkyspaw: eh
2020-10-27 19:31:00	ericonr	2FA is great
2020-10-27 19:31:24	ericonr	if they give you a QR code to scan, it's fecking great
2020-10-27 19:31:44	ericonr	I have a 2FA client running on my phone and a tiny hodge podge I wrote on my desktop
2020-10-27 19:31:54	ericonr	so I have codes at any time
2020-10-27 19:32:01	ericonr	hardware keys are even better, of course
2020-10-27 19:32:05	thefunkyspaw	Let me give you an example: Vanguard holds retirement accounts. Vanguard requires 2FA. They do 2FA with SMS messages. SMS messages can currently be stolen off the network fairly easily. Some hackers in Germany already did this to another bank in Germany.
2020-10-27 19:32:08	admicos	time-based 2fa are amazing, specialized proprietary 2fa that either requires an internet connection or uses a different algorthm, is just no
2020-10-27 19:32:22	ericonr	yeah
2020-10-27 19:32:28	admicos	and sms 2fa shouldn't be mentioned at all it's that bad
2020-10-27 19:32:29	thefunkyspaw	Vanguard will let you switch to Yubikey, but if you lose your Yubikey they will let you recover your account with.... SMS messages. Its insane.
2020-10-27 19:32:33	ericonr	SMS 2FA is just "doors wide open"
2020-10-27 19:32:40	thefunkyspaw	Right?
2020-10-27 19:32:50	ericonr	thefunkyspaw: yubikeys are also good against phishing
2020-10-27 19:32:54	ericonr	like
2020-10-27 19:32:59	thefunkyspaw	Oh, but then it isn't even 2FA, because you can also recover your password with your damn phone number
2020-10-27 19:33:09	ericonr	using it as your main form of authentication gives more protection than only the 2FA side of it
2020-10-27 19:33:28	ericonr	since phishing attacks _are_ more common than shady hackers
2020-10-27 19:34:01	acdw	boringcactus: I love the 'can't actually make calls but is okay otherwise'
2020-10-27 19:34:06	ew0k	my websites redirect to https, though. I just wish OSs and browsers would update to be able to use the latest crypto
2020-10-27 19:34:16	ericonr	:c
2020-10-27 19:34:19	ericonr	not everyone can
2020-10-27 19:34:20	xfnw	hmm
2020-10-27 19:34:25	admicos	pmos can make calls, on like 2 devices
2020-10-27 19:34:30	admicos	which you probably don't have
2020-10-27 19:34:41	admicos	afaik, anyway
2020-10-27 19:34:53	boringcactus	it's extremely funny how https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices says there are only two fully working devices
2020-10-27 19:34:57	boringcactus	and they're both just QEMU
2020-10-27 19:38:54	acdw	oh jeez
2020-10-27 19:42:16	aravk	welp
2020-10-27 19:43:02	jcowan	A lot of 2FA is "one thing you know, and another thing you know".  That is 1FA.
2020-10-27 19:43:32	CommunistWolf	eh, the pinephone camera does work, it's just not very good
2020-10-27 19:44:00	jcowan	Those credit-card-sized RSA doohickeys were the closest.  You didn't need them much, so you weren't likely to lose them, and they were milspec-strong and highly resistant to "physical cryptanalysis".
2020-10-27 19:46:00	thefunkyspaw	I am watching a pine phone manjaro community edition review. It looks barely usable.
2020-10-27 19:47:37	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 20:00:08		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-27 20:02:38	CommunistWolf	good, no?
2020-10-27 20:02:47	CommunistWolf	I run mobian on mine
2020-10-27 20:04:43	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 20:38:50		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-27 20:41:10		anton|pw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-27 20:43:40	▬▬▶	anton|pw has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 20:46:17	ew0k	What's the preferred way of POSTing stuff to gemini servers? sftp?
2020-10-27 20:46:47	ew0k	Because the protocol doesn't support any way of doing it from a site (no form, etc)
2020-10-27 20:50:12	ℹ 	acdw is now known as michaela_watkins
2020-10-27 20:51:14	ℹ 	michaela_watkins is now known as acdw
2020-10-27 20:52:25	acdw	ye, no POST in gemini protocol
2020-10-27 20:52:38	acdw	some servers use sftp, like gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-10-27 20:52:43	acdw	some use plain ssh
2020-10-27 20:52:52	acdw	gemlog.blue has a php interface
2020-10-27 20:52:55	acdw	with a web from
2020-10-27 20:52:57	acdw	form
2020-10-27 20:58:34		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-27 21:03:59	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 21:42:14	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 21:54:46		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-27 21:57:23	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 22:56:49		nixo has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-27 23:00:38		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-27 23:12:58	jcowan	I've been thinking about how to implement a very simple flask-like Dioscuri framework in Python.
2020-10-27 23:13:33	jcowan	and also about a gemifinger protocol; you run a daemon on your box that reports to a specialized gemini server what you are up to, and then anyone can see it by accessing the server
2020-10-27 23:19:53	kevinsan	what's the specific specialization?
2020-10-27 23:21:32		boringcactus has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-27 23:28:30	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-10-27 23:36:39		boringcactus has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-27 23:38:33	▬▬▶	boringcactus has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 00:12:35		jcowan has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-28 00:12:38	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 00:12:50		griffin has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-28 00:13:05	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 00:56:35	zephryn	ew0k: i'd just say that it's best to use whatever method suits what you're planning to host,  there isn't much of an established or preferred method for POSTing content
2020-10-28 01:11:53		deuill has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-28 01:12:43	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 02:07:03		shou has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-28 02:49:28		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-10-28 03:19:51	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 04:12:44	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 04:23:15		wangofett has quit (quit: my inbox is always open!)
2020-10-28 05:09:38		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-10-28 07:08:05	ew0k	jcowan: I'm not well read up on webfinger. What's it usually used for? I only know that it's used in ActivityPub to find user profiles
2020-10-28 08:01:23	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 08:15:54	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 08:22:08		wingy has quit (quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-10-28 08:22:17	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 09:53:11		martijn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-28 10:01:10	ew0k	ugh... I had an idea to make a gemini browser with a graphical interface, written in python with tkinter. GUI programming *sucks*
2020-10-28 10:01:20	ew0k	sooooo much code just to align a few pixels
2020-10-28 10:01:36	ew0k	HTML + CSS really rules in that regard
2020-10-28 10:05:14	▬▬▶	martijn has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 10:40:33	CoopDot	I had an idea for a browser, where you can just scroll up through the page boundery to go Back in your browsing history. The scrolling between the pages would look like pages in a PDF-reader. I know how to do that in HTML+CSS+JS but I want to avoid that.
2020-10-28 10:44:56	ew0k	CoopDot: I'm sort of there, too. Not that I was looking for that design, but in that I know how to build the GUI I want in HTML+CSS+JS 
2020-10-28 10:45:42	ew0k	Building GUIs for desktop looks easy at first, but then everything becomes extremely complicated once window resizing comes into it
2020-10-28 10:46:33	ew0k	and it's usually simple to dictate sizes in pixels or chars, but not in relation to screen size or zoom settings or similar
2020-10-28 10:49:18	ew0k	and in HTML+CSS+JS I can have modals, instead of pop-out windows...
2020-10-28 10:56:29	ew0k	haha. Had a thought: "I *could* just fork chromium, and get rid of all the html stuff and replace it with gemini stuff instead." Looked at the chromium repo...
2020-10-28 11:11:34	CoopDot	It looks like evince (written in C) is using css for styling, didn't know
2020-10-28 11:18:58	ew0k	do you mean the pdf viewer?
2020-10-28 11:21:15	CoopDot	Yes, the document viewer mainly used for PDF
2020-10-28 11:22:14	ew0k	right
2020-10-28 11:24:59	CoopDot	I didn't know it had support for comics
2020-10-28 11:31:25	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 11:31:54	kiedtl	does gemini support "tags" on urls? (sorry, not sure what they're called)
2020-10-28 11:32:11	kiedtl	e.g. gemini://stuff.example.com/link.gmi#section
2020-10-28 11:32:24	djph	kiedtl: afaik,no.  
2020-10-28 11:32:56	ew0k	kiedtl: they're called anchors in HTML, and no it doesn't
2020-10-28 11:33:55	djph	I believe you can use them internal to the gemtext as URLs, but that might be wrong.
2020-10-28 11:34:50	ew0k	I guess it would be up to the client to parse that out from the URL and use it as it sees fit; the server will serve the same document regardless
2020-10-28 11:35:38	djph	yeah, maybe it's just a feature of av98.  It's been a while since I've goofed around with writing for the capsule.  Life has a tendency to get in the way
2020-10-28 11:36:17	ew0k	it'd be a nice feature in a browser to just auto-create an anchor for each heading, but since it's not in the specification I guess you can't expect clients to remove the #anchor from the URL, and you may get garbage from the server if it doesn't understand it
2020-10-28 11:37:34	ew0k	if the browser can't be expected to remove it, links containing anchors are likely to cause status 51 (not found).
2020-10-28 11:37:42		bard has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-28 11:54:23	jcowan	ew0k: I don't knoq much about webfinger either, except that it is (as usual these days) VERY complicated.
2020-10-28 11:55:01	▬▬▶	bard has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 11:55:28	ew0k	jcowan: well if it was simple everyone would use it! XD
2020-10-28 11:56:23	jcowan	I'm quite familiar with the original finger (designed for timesharing hosts) and a little bit with GNU finger (designed for environments where people use multiple interchangeable workstations).  Neither of these is realistic today.
2020-10-28 11:57:51	ew0k	I've had very little interaction with either of those. Can only remember that they were available on the workstations at uni... I don't remember what they were for
2020-10-28 11:58:41	@tomasino	they're available on most tildes now
2020-10-28 11:59:17	@tomasino	finger tomasino@cosmic.voyage
2020-10-28 11:59:22	@tomasino	or finger ben@tilde.team
2020-10-28 12:00:16	@tomasino	as for the url hashes, it was discussed in here before and on the ML a tiny bit. Some client authors were discussing how to use it for anchors to headings. There's apparently a few ways to do it since headers are free text
2020-10-28 12:00:39	@tomasino	do you convert all non-A-z characters to nothing and condense the anchor? do you number them in order, etc
2020-10-28 12:00:56	@tomasino	it is rather difficult to come up with a simple solution for humans to implement
2020-10-28 12:01:48	@tomasino	as for an outline with links down, take a look at how kristall is doing that. I believe a couple other clients make an outline available as well. You can't link to it from an external page, but it's nice for navigating long form
2020-10-28 12:07:23	jcowan	tomasino: Thanks. Looks like the finger server on cosmic.voyage has a bug: if you type "finger -l tomasino@cosmic.voyage" it should give you more information (or at least no less information), but in fact it gives you an error because it does not implement RFC 1288 correctly.  Do you know who I should report that to?
2020-10-28 12:11:28	@tomasino	efingerd
2020-10-28 12:11:40	@tomasino	That's what we're all using 
2020-10-28 12:21:15	@tomasino	i see -l in the finger manpage, but i don't see anything about it in the RFC
2020-10-28 12:56:29	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 13:14:40	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 13:18:28	jcowan	It translates into /W at the beginning of the request line, which provokes an error
2020-10-28 13:19:11	@tomasino	ahh, i did see the /W in the RFC
2020-10-28 13:19:25	@tomasino	looks like efingerd is just reading that as a username or something
2020-10-28 13:25:49		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-28 13:26:28	jcowan	yes, and then complaining and saying "THIS INCIDENT HAS BEEN LOGGED" in a voice of doom.
2020-10-28 13:27:30	@tomasino	hehe, that's me
2020-10-28 13:27:33	@tomasino	not efingerd
2020-10-28 13:27:57	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/cosmic/cosmic/src/branch/master/efingerd
2020-10-28 13:28:09	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/cosmic/cosmic/src/branch/master/efingerd/nouser#L35-L39 - specifically
2020-10-28 13:32:23	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 13:36:31		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-28 14:05:37	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 15:04:13	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 15:14:27	ℹ 	acdw is now known as breadw
2020-10-28 17:27:44		breadw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-28 17:30:00	kiedtl	Is there any plan to add support for nested lists? I'm currently converting some .txt pages to .gmi and the lack of nested unordered lists is beginning to drive me crazy.
2020-10-28 17:30:49	boringcactus	i doubt it
2020-10-28 17:31:03	boringcactus	you can always just use the syntax as though it exists
2020-10-28 17:33:41	kiedtl	Yeah. I'll just pretend the support is there for now.
2020-10-28 17:42:39	ew0k	kiedtl: I think the specification has just left a three-month freeze, so changes are once again possible. That said I hope the markup remains unchanged; I've pondered several changes myself but have come to the conclusion that any additions would add complexity, and the simplicity is what I love about it.
2020-10-28 17:42:54	ew0k	kiedtl: If I needed nested lists I would use the ``` block
2020-10-28 17:46:21	kiedtl	hmm, I never thought of using ``` blocks
2020-10-28 17:46:24	kiedtl	I might just do that!
2020-10-28 17:50:10	ew0k	👍
2020-10-28 17:54:50	kiedtl	 
2020-10-28 18:00:15	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 18:02:35	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 18:03:53		acdw has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by acdw2))
2020-10-28 18:03:53	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-10-28 18:03:59	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 18:04:58	ew0k	I started building something  https://lounge.warmedal.se/uploads/5b73a5212ea4c929/image.png 
2020-10-28 18:05:14	ew0k	not sure if I'll finish it, but still educational
2020-10-28 18:05:42	acdw	oooh
2020-10-28 18:05:45	acdw	looks good so far
2020-10-28 18:05:50	felix	Good luck!
2020-10-28 18:05:59	ew0k	ty!
2020-10-28 18:06:22	ew0k	I'm fiddling with the gui elements only for now. No logic whatsoever
2020-10-28 18:06:37	ew0k	Gonna see what I can borrow from AV-98 when I get to that :)
2020-10-28 18:06:54	felix	Will it have any special goals or features?
2020-10-28 18:08:49	ew0k	not at first. I just want to have a graphical browser. The challenge is to package it and make it work on Windows and Raspbian desktop (is it called Pixel now?). I'm thinking that's a good way to show non-technical people what geminispace is
2020-10-28 18:09:02	acdw	nice
2020-10-28 18:09:50	felix	It's made in Python?
2020-10-28 18:09:59	ew0k	but I mean... I haven't done desktop GUI programming since that intro java course back in 2009...
2020-10-28 18:10:02	ew0k	yup!
2020-10-28 18:10:15	ew0k	50 lines so far
2020-10-28 18:10:23	felix	:D
2020-10-28 18:10:44	felix	Awesome! I used Python for a Gopher client. With Tkinter.
2020-10-28 18:10:55	ew0k	that's what I'm doing!
2020-10-28 18:11:32	felix	But I have a bit more experience with Tk and desktop apps. :P
2020-10-28 18:12:16	ew0k	I honestly think it looks kinnda awful. All the elements are where I want them, but the look is so 1990's that it's really clashing against the rest of my Ubuntu desktop :P
2020-10-28 18:12:30	felix	I've heard that said about Tk apps before.
2020-10-28 18:12:38	acdw	1990s tho
2020-10-28 18:12:41	acdw	is where it at
2020-10-28 18:12:45	ℹ 	Dr-WaSabi is now known as jan6-5bata1
2020-10-28 18:12:54	felix	For what it's worth, the new ttk-style widgets are native on Win/Mac.
2020-10-28 18:13:02	ew0k	acdw: yeah, it *is* sort of the aesthetic I *should* be looking for :D 
2020-10-28 18:13:06	acdw	hehe
2020-10-28 18:13:36	ℹ 	acdw is now known as jan31
2020-10-28 18:13:49	felix	But for Linux, I'm tempted to rewrite some of my apps with PyGObject.
2020-10-28 18:13:56	ew0k	But I would love it if I could make it look like a modern browser (FF, Chrome, Brave, Opera, whatever)
2020-10-28 18:14:19	felix	You can come surprisingly close.
2020-10-28 18:15:23	ew0k	yeah? By fiddling a lot with themes?
2020-10-28 18:16:30	ew0k	You know what would be great? Being like uncanny-valley-close, but not 100% there
2020-10-28 18:16:34	ew0k	:D
2020-10-28 18:17:57	ew0k	Can I attach events to labels?
2020-10-28 18:18:10	felix	Choice of icons and button spacing brought me a long way, even on Linux and with the default Tk theme.
2020-10-28 18:18:16	felix	And sure you can!
2020-10-28 18:18:36	ew0k	Because I could get a long way by designing modern-looking button-like labels and make them clickable
2020-10-28 18:18:41	ew0k	awesome!
2020-10-28 18:18:48	ℹ 	jan31 is now known as acdw
2020-10-28 18:18:52	ℹ 	jan6-5bata1 is now known as Dr-WaSabi
2020-10-28 18:19:37	felix	I really recommend looking at ttk widgets though, and using styles.
2020-10-28 18:20:22	ew0k	I'm using ttk widgets :) Haven't fiddled with styles yet
2020-10-28 18:20:40	ew0k	I think the right path forward is to make it work first, and then bling it up :D 
2020-10-28 18:21:00		acdw has quit (quit: bye, love you)
2020-10-28 18:21:00	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-10-28 18:21:22	ew0k	... and then figure out how to make a .deb package and a windows executable from it...
2020-10-28 18:22:19	felix	For Windows you have a bunch of different solutions.
2020-10-28 18:22:34	felix	For Linux, something in setuptools, I think?
2020-10-28 18:23:18	boringcactus	oh packaging a python program into a windows exe is
2020-10-28 18:23:24	boringcactus	unpleasant
2020-10-28 18:23:42	boringcactus	or at least it was like a year and a bit ago when i had to deal with it
2020-10-28 18:26:16	ew0k	boringcactus: ... I'll leave that one on the "maybe" list then....
2020-10-28 18:26:17	ew0k	:D 
2020-10-28 18:26:26	boringcactus	lmao
2020-10-28 18:47:40	▬▬▶	ffuentes has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 18:55:51	boringcactus	oh ttk is neat, didn't know about that
2020-10-28 18:58:20	felix	It's not the Tk of my youth anymore.
2020-10-28 19:27:11		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-28 19:32:28		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-28 19:32:36	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 20:07:00		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2020-10-28 20:11:43	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 20:11:43	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-10-28 20:18:58		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-28 20:57:33	kiedtl	quick question: do people ususally put copyright notices/site logo/art on every page in a capsule, or only on the index page?
2020-10-28 20:58:40		ffuentes has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-28 21:23:05	@tomasino	on gemini i'd probably put it on the homepage
2020-10-28 21:23:16	@tomasino	or link it from the homepage
2020-10-28 21:23:36	@tomasino	=> copyright.txt Copyright and other legal poop
2020-10-28 21:24:13	xfnw	lol
2020-10-28 21:45:35	▬▬▶	ffuentes has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 22:15:17	acdw	anybody here use phoebe
2020-10-28 22:27:02		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-28 22:27:17	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 22:27:33		fleeky has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-28 22:28:00	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 22:28:14		fleeky has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-28 22:28:36	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 22:28:43		fleeky has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-28 22:29:35	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 22:31:56	@tomasino	the lady from friends?
2020-10-28 22:40:33	acdw	kensanata's gemini wiki
2020-10-28 22:40:53	acdw	https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/phoebe/tree/phoebe
2020-10-28 22:41:28	acdw	i'm trying to get it running but for some reason when i wrote a systemd unit file it says it can't find the "file" of port 1965
2020-10-28 22:41:31	acdw	i do NOT know perl
2020-10-28 22:51:42	kiedtl	eww perl
2020-10-28 22:52:06	zephryn	interesting language choice
2020-10-28 22:52:48	acdw	ye
2020-10-28 22:53:05	acdw	i'm thinking about not using it
2020-10-28 22:53:29		ffuentes has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-28 22:54:14	acdw	i want a server that i can also post to... wlel "post"
2020-10-28 22:54:19	▬▬▶	ffuentes has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 22:54:21	acdw	phoebe uses titan://
2020-10-28 22:54:28	acdw	i might juts do molly-brown and a php script
2020-10-28 22:56:49		nixo has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-28 23:04:44		ffuentes has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-28 23:05:08	▬▬▶	ffuentes has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 23:06:53	▬▬▶	ks has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 23:13:12	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 23:13:39		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-10-28 23:14:43	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-10-28 23:14:49		ffuentes has quit (Changing host)
2020-10-28 23:14:49	▬▬▶	ffuentes has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 23:28:27	▬▬▶	semaphore has joined #gemini
2020-10-28 23:43:58	ew0k	What’s this titan protocol?
2020-10-28 23:44:21	@tomasino	kensanata's companion protocol to gemini to handle writing content for wikis
2020-10-28 23:45:14	ew0k	Where can I read more about it? :)
2020-10-28 23:48:07	acdw	https://transjovian.org:1965/page/Titan
2020-10-28 23:48:12	acdw	or gemini://transjovian.org/page/Titan
2020-10-28 23:58:44		ffuentes has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-28 23:58:56	▬▬▶	ffuentes has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 00:01:49	ew0k	That was an interesting read
2020-10-29 00:02:52	ew0k	I dislike the lack of POST in gemini, but I also don’t want to add it (because it really does complicate things). Having a sister protocol for it could be a viable solution
2020-10-29 00:11:01	acdw	that was my thinking!
2020-10-29 00:19:46		raiz has quit (quit: EOF)
2020-10-29 00:19:47		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-29 00:27:08		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-29 00:28:13	zephryn	i definitely think having a separate protocol for it is a good idea
2020-10-29 00:29:07	ericonr	I don't think gemini could even be comfortably extended for POST support...
2020-10-29 00:29:51	ericonr	do servers usually implement ALPN? would be neat to have it for gemini, even if just for fun
2020-10-29 00:30:19	epoch	could put post data into a temporary cert? XD
2020-10-29 00:30:55	epoch	certs have the ability to store arbitrary structured data, right?
2020-10-29 00:30:57	zephryn	haha
2020-10-29 00:30:59	★	epoch double checks
2020-10-29 00:31:34	ericonr	I think they do, but not all ssl libraries will let you access those :P
2020-10-29 00:31:46	epoch	then the ssl libraries need to be fixed ;)
2020-10-29 00:31:49	ericonr	might have issues with maximum size as well
2020-10-29 00:31:52	▬▬▶	joshinct has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 00:32:22	ericonr	well, with a simple library you want to tell it to look at <certs_path> and "do connection"
2020-10-29 00:32:41	ericonr	it doesn't really need functionality to extract arbitrary fields from certificate
2020-10-29 00:32:44	ericonr	s
2020-10-29 00:33:39		semaphore has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-29 00:33:57	epoch	so, either use a library that does that, or add support for a new protocol?
2020-10-29 00:34:00	acdw	what's alpn
2020-10-29 00:34:06	acdw	epoch that's so cursed i love it
2020-10-29 00:34:40	ericonr	acdw: SSL extension that allows you to negotiate the protocol (http 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, ...) during the handshake
2020-10-29 00:35:01	acdw	oh nice
2020-10-29 00:35:35		joshinct has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-29 00:36:27	ericonr	supporting it on gemini is not really necessary, since port 1965 is likely unoccupied and not going to be used for anything else, but it's still a nice to have little addition
2020-10-29 00:37:25	epoch	https://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.xhtml?search=1965
2020-10-29 00:38:32	ericonr	https://www.npmjs.com/package/tivoli I don't think one should be using a 4y old server :P
2020-10-29 00:39:07	epoch	tell that to people using Windows Server 2008
2020-10-29 00:39:23	zephryn	might be tivoli netview performance monitor?
2020-10-29 00:39:32	ericonr	zephryn: indeed
2020-10-29 00:39:32	epoch	that's my bet. I'm looking into it atm.
2020-10-29 00:39:38	ericonr	I might have been mislead in my search
2020-10-29 00:42:43	epoch	the contact email address on the iana page (@tivoli.com) has an MX record to some computer security company
2020-10-29 00:42:50	acdw	hmmmmm
2020-10-29 00:42:53	epoch	looks like they're harvesting emails directed to other people
2020-10-29 00:43:02	acdw	pretty sus
2020-10-29 00:43:28	epoch	original registration by... IBM? probably ran out in the last 3 years
2020-10-29 00:44:19	ericonr	oof
2020-10-29 00:45:02	@tomasino	sus
2020-10-29 00:45:19	zephryn	yeah tivoli seems to be an ibm thing
2020-10-29 00:46:13	epoch	$ whob $(dig $(dig -t MX tivoli.com +short) +short)
2020-10-29 00:46:15	epoch	Org-Name: Proofpoint, Inc
2020-10-29 00:46:52	epoch	you can see an ownership history of the domain using https://whoisrequest.com/history/
2020-10-29 00:47:06	epoch	looks like IBM got it in 2003
2020-10-29 00:47:27	epoch	2013 akam.net which I guess is akamai?
2020-10-29 00:48:37	epoch	akam.net doesn't resolve to anything either
2020-10-29 00:48:48	epoch	no MX
2020-10-29 00:49:09	epoch	lol.
2020-10-29 00:49:12	epoch	the TXT record
2020-10-29 00:49:26	epoch	akam.net. 90000 IN TXT "This" "is" "not" "the" "nameserver" "you" "are" "looking" "for."
2020-10-29 00:50:49	zephryn	hahaha
2020-10-29 00:51:37	epoch	yeah, the IPs for the NS for akam.net are all owned by akamai
2020-10-29 00:51:43	acdw	you've stumbled onto some dark corener of the internet
2020-10-29 00:51:48	acdw	say hi to the FBI
2020-10-29 00:58:41	epoch	kk
2020-10-29 00:59:12	acdw	:P
2020-10-29 01:20:26		acdw has quit (quit: bye, love you)
2020-10-29 01:32:10	kiedtl	anyone know of a gemini server that works on openbsd? I'm asking for a friend who said he tried drew's server (only it wouldn't compile)
2020-10-29 01:32:47	ericonr	anything Go should work, I think
2020-10-29 01:33:22	ericonr	what errors did he get with devault's? Assuming it's C, I could take a look
2020-10-29 01:33:44	@tomasino	Jetforce works
2020-10-29 01:33:52	@tomasino	I ran it on black
2020-10-29 01:34:33	kiedtl	hmm
2020-10-29 01:34:43	kiedtl	I'm working on getting some logs of the failed build, lol, let's see
2020-10-29 02:17:49		doppler has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-29 02:18:35	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 04:12:22	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 04:12:34		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Changing host)
2020-10-29 04:12:34	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 04:32:01	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 04:32:29	lowkey	is this the main gemini IRC channel?
2020-10-29 04:32:34	lowkey	i thought it would be on freenode
2020-10-29 04:47:13	isvarahparamahkrsnah	yes
2020-10-29 04:47:26	isvarahparamahkrsnah	this is the home of the gemini
2020-10-29 04:47:45	isvarahparamahkrsnah	why was gemini named gemini and not aries?
2020-10-29 04:51:05		lowkey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-29 05:27:33		ffuentes has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-29 06:16:45	ew0k	isvarahparamahkrsnah: I don’t know what the name Aries would be from. Was that also a space project?
2020-10-29 06:38:10	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 07:07:25		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-29 07:41:09	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 07:45:48	ew0k	I've been thinking about caching
2020-10-29 07:48:46	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 07:48:48		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-29 07:48:51	ew0k	more specifically, I've been thinking that local caching of content can be possible without extending the protocol. I would propose that a server that supports it makes an endpoint "/.updated" available for queries. Let's say my client fetches gemini://foo.bar/very-large-file.jpg once, and is later asked by the user to fetch it again. It keeps a
2020-10-29 07:48:51	ew0k	local copy, but how will it know if it's up to date? By querying gemini://foo.bar/.updated?/very-large-file.jpg
2020-10-29 07:50:01	ew0k	The server will either reply with a 51 (if it doesn't support this), or a "20 <UNIX timestamp>" where the timestamp is the time that file was last modified
2020-10-29 07:51:05	ew0k	But. The specification says this about status code 20: "The request was handled successfully and a response body *will* follow the response header." (my emphasis)
2020-10-29 07:54:39	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 08:30:59	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 09:32:28	nixo	ew0k: also, instead of the timestamp it would be better to use some hash.  1. A file might be updated faster than the timestamp resolution (file updated, client does not detect changes) and 2. A file might be changed twice, going back to the cached version (the client download the same file twice even if the time changed)
2020-10-29 09:36:52	ew0k	nixo: yes! That's really good!
2020-10-29 09:36:59	ew0k	sha256 or something
2020-10-29 09:37:42	ew0k	would clients handle a 20 response code without a body, though?
2020-10-29 09:38:00	ew0k	to me it doesn't sound like that's allowed according to the spec
2020-10-29 09:38:15	ew0k	but I don't see a need for a message body for this
2020-10-29 10:39:34		gohan has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-29 10:49:31	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 10:50:54	aravk	why not use "20 <special mime type for sha256 hash>" followed by the hash
2020-10-29 10:52:30	aravk	say "20 text/x-sha256" (I'm not too familiar with the conventions for unofficial MIME types)
2020-10-29 10:53:14	aravk	that way all gemini clients should deal with it fine (assuming they can work with unrecognized mime types)
2020-10-29 10:53:57	aravk	ew0k: this is a pretty good idea you've got here
2020-10-29 10:54:05	ew0k	aravk: wouldn’t they still expect a body?
2020-10-29 10:54:10	aravk	yep, the body is the hash
2020-10-29 10:54:26	ew0k	Oh!
2020-10-29 10:54:35	aravk	sorry, wasn't clear
2020-10-29 10:54:54	ew0k	I mean... the hash is just a text string :D
2020-10-29 10:54:57	aravk	exactly
2020-10-29 10:55:12	ew0k	that’s a mime type all clients can handle
2020-10-29 10:55:14	aravk	but it would be neat then if you could have different MIME types for different hashes
2020-10-29 10:55:34	aravk	e.g. text/x-sha256, text/x-sha512, etc.
2020-10-29 10:55:45	ew0k	That’s smart!
2020-10-29 10:55:52	aravk	plus it's not supposed to be a normal text file
2020-10-29 10:55:58	ew0k	makes it a bit more futureproof too
2020-10-29 10:56:02	aravk	it's a special purpose response and so we give it a better MIME type
2020-10-29 10:56:39	aravk	you should put this on the mailing list, ew0k
2020-10-29 10:56:47	aravk	get some more long-form discussion
2020-10-29 11:01:26	ew0k	Will do! I joined the list last night :)
2020-10-29 11:01:57	aravk	also specify that if the request gets a 'not found' or any similar error, or if the returned MIME type is unrecognized, then the client should ignore it and still grab a fresh copy
2020-10-29 11:02:04	aravk	oh, also we can include content-length!
2020-10-29 11:02:19	aravk	format would be '<hash type> <hash> <content-length in bytes>'
2020-10-29 11:02:38	aravk	mime type would be 'text/x-content-info' or whatever
2020-10-29 11:02:54	aravk	although these should be two different proposals
2020-10-29 11:03:35	aravk	has anyone thought of encoding the content-length as a MIME type parameter in the response?
2020-10-29 11:04:12	aravk	also, if the URL to check upon also was fed input, that input will have to be encoded in the .content? request
2020-10-29 11:15:00	ew0k	Is the lack of content length a big issue?
2020-10-29 11:15:57	ew0k	I think embedding content length in the <META> field sounds like a better idea than making a separate request to find out
2020-10-29 11:17:17	aravk	yeah, I'm writing to the mailing list detailing both
2020-10-29 11:17:28	aravk	but I'm in favor of the MIME type encoding
2020-10-29 11:34:02	aravk	hey ew0k I'm mentioning you in the mail (giving an endpoint proposal), should I just refer to you as ~ew0k or what
2020-10-29 11:40:47	ew0k	I was about to say "call me whatever you like" but I guess that could be confusing all around :D I'm bjorn.warmedal@gmail.com on the list, and usually go by BW
2020-10-29 11:41:19	ew0k	not member of a tildeverse community, so ~ew0k could be misleading :)
2020-10-29 12:17:44	aravk	welp, used the wrong e-mail, so now it's pending mod approval
2020-10-29 12:18:07	alex11	is bombadillo a decent client? seems to be both gemini and gopher
2020-10-29 12:39:46	ew0k	  https://lounge.warmedal.se/uploads/365fadf913430599/image.png <-- making progress!
2020-10-29 12:40:01	ew0k	I hate GUI programming
2020-10-29 12:40:04	ew0k	XD
2020-10-29 12:41:23	nihilazo	same
2020-10-29 12:42:05	alex11	you're making that? it looks nice
2020-10-29 12:45:17	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 12:50:31		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-29 12:55:03	ew0k	alex11: ty
2020-10-29 12:56:13	ew0k	I need to write a class that inherits from another class. How do I declare the __init__ method when I don't know (nor care) which or how many parameters it takes? I just need to pass them along to the parent constructor anyway
2020-10-29 12:56:25	ew0k	(it's python3)
2020-10-29 13:01:35	ew0k	Hah! Figured it out!
2020-10-29 13:09:45	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 13:37:19		nixo has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-29 13:49:43	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 13:51:02	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 13:57:35	ericonr	ew0k: *args and **kwargs, isn't it?
2020-10-29 13:57:58	ericonr	i think one can hack around with those
2020-10-29 14:01:16	ew0k	yeah, it was *args in this case
2020-10-29 14:01:25	ew0k	https://notabug.org/tinyrabbit/astronaut-gemini-browser <-- the code, so far
2020-10-29 14:02:08	aravk	truly the work of a tiny rabbit
2020-10-29 14:02:54	ew0k	very much so!
2020-10-29 14:03:46	ew0k	I have a habit that I've had since early teenage years, without really having a rationale behind it: whenever I enter a new online space or community I pick a random new handle/nick
2020-10-29 14:03:56	aravk	not a bad habit
2020-10-29 14:04:10	ew0k	maybe not :shrugs:
2020-10-29 14:04:28	★	aravk shrugs back
2020-10-29 14:06:03	ew0k	so I'm tinyrabbit in the fediverse, for now. And ew0k here. And I have different nicks on all the other IRC networks I'm on, and discord servers, and online writing groups (not part of any right now though), etc
2020-10-29 14:16:49	▬▬▶	khuxkm has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 14:17:30	▬▬▶	nerosnm has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 14:20:46	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 14:35:30	felix	Whatever works for you. Identity is complicated and personal.
2020-10-29 14:35:37	felix	Online, it's also a thorny issue.
2020-10-29 14:41:46	ew0k	yeah... I'm not one who cares much, though. It's not hard to find my real name, or my address for that matter.
2020-10-29 14:41:56	ew0k	they're even on my website.
2020-10-29 14:42:01	ew0k	it's just a habit :)
2020-10-29 14:44:40	ew0k	Haha, apparently I even have my real name in my gitconfig, so all commits made as tinyrabbit have my name on them :D 
2020-10-29 14:45:44	felix	Heh. Oh well.
2020-10-29 15:02:51	ew0k	Without a POST method the content producers of geminispace will almost exclusively be techies with a terminal. I can’t decide whether that’s a feature or a bug
2020-10-29 15:04:56	felix	Unless you have a web interface. ;)
2020-10-29 15:08:05	CoopDot	If you send to the ML with the wrong email address, delete it on the web interface and send it again with the right one. (Or wait a Long time)
2020-10-29 15:11:52	aravk	CoopDot: unfortunately stupid aerc died before saving the sent mail to my sent folder, so I couldn't even resend it
2020-10-29 15:15:12	CoopDot	I guess you have to wait then :/
2020-10-29 15:15:12	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 15:23:21	felix	\o
2020-10-29 15:23:54	CoopDot	o/
2020-10-29 15:27:42	acdw	\o
2020-10-29 15:34:49	felix	So there's an initiative to put public domain books on Gemini?
2020-10-29 15:36:43	acdw	eys? there are a few of them
2020-10-29 15:36:51	acdw	*books, not initialtivs
2020-10-29 15:36:54	acdw	might be initiatives too
2020-10-29 15:40:32	felix	That booksin.space thing.
2020-10-29 15:43:21	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 15:45:16	acdw	Im getting a proxy error
2020-10-29 15:46:24	acdw	there's also gemini://tanelorn.city/library/index.gemini
2020-10-29 15:46:35	acdw	and gemini://libraryoferis.org/
2020-10-29 15:48:41	felix	I see!
2020-10-29 15:49:38	nihilazo	I should get my gemini site back up
2020-10-29 15:53:46	acdw	yeah you should! :)
2020-10-29 15:54:07	nihilazo	might stick it on breadpunk now I'm there too
2020-10-29 15:54:48	~tiwesdaeg	uh ohg
2020-10-29 15:55:10	~tiwesdaeg	I'll check on the library
2020-10-29 15:56:36	acdw	aw yea! 
2020-10-29 16:01:59	acdw	yall my gemlog.blue has 99 posts
2020-10-29 16:02:02	acdw	i'm almost to 100
2020-10-29 16:03:23	~tiwesdaeg	ok, looks like it's back up
2020-10-29 16:03:34	~tiwesdaeg	I've been meaning to move it over to molly-brown
2020-10-29 16:03:44	~tiwesdaeg	I've had stability issues with gemserv
2020-10-29 16:04:54	★	acdw checks it out
2020-10-29 16:05:05	felix	That's a lot of posts!
2020-10-29 16:05:20	acdw	:D right!?
2020-10-29 16:05:25	acdw	i'm pretty chuffed about it
2020-10-29 16:05:39	acdw	tiwesdaeg: still getting the error in kristall, lemme try portal.mozz
2020-10-29 16:05:55	~tiwesdaeg	it worked on bombadillo
2020-10-29 16:05:55	acdw	same error, 53
2020-10-29 16:06:06	acdw	gemini://booksin.space/ ?
2020-10-29 16:06:25	~tiwesdaeg	eh?
2020-10-29 16:06:40	acdw	oh wait, what were you talking about
2020-10-29 16:06:50	~tiwesdaeg	libraryoferis.org
2020-10-29 16:07:06	~tiwesdaeg	ohhhh
2020-10-29 16:07:08	~tiwesdaeg	I get it
2020-10-29 16:07:19	~tiwesdaeg	there were multiple things going on in that conversation
2020-10-29 16:07:24	~tiwesdaeg	I didn't read up
2020-10-29 16:08:55	ew0k	felix: of course I can have a web interface :) or use titan://
2020-10-29 16:08:56	acdw	oh lol no worries
2020-10-29 16:09:30	acdw	yeah library of eris is going good :)
2020-10-29 16:09:33	ew0k	I really do think that forms and POST would complicate gemini a lot
2020-10-29 16:09:44	acdw	yes absolutely
2020-10-29 16:09:47	acdw	post--
2020-10-29 16:10:47	ew0k	You could easily build a microblogging site that uses query strings. I feel like that’s going to happen
2020-10-29 16:11:14	acdw	ooh that sounds dope
2020-10-29 16:11:43	acdw	auth with client cert? or secret word?
2020-10-29 16:11:55	ew0k	Either or, I guess
2020-10-29 16:12:02	acdw	hey acutally question --- with TLS, are URLs sent in the clear? or are they encrypted?
2020-10-29 16:12:27	acdw	like if I send gemini://gus.guru/search?super-secret-search, can third parties see that URL?
2020-10-29 16:12:30	acdw	or just gus.guru?
2020-10-29 16:12:37	xfnw	just gus.guru
2020-10-29 16:12:40	acdw	nice
2020-10-29 16:12:56	acdw	so yeah, a secret word would be easier to implement
2020-10-29 16:12:58	ew0k	the subdomain.domain.tld can be seen, since you’re querying DNS servers with it
2020-10-29 16:13:16	ew0k	but the path and query string are sent after tls handshake
2020-10-29 16:13:19	acdw	right, that makes sense -- but then you open the TLS connection and it all goes thru there
2020-10-29 16:13:21	acdw	yepype
2020-10-29 16:13:22	acdw	thanks :)
2020-10-29 16:15:33	ew0k	I have a question: if a client sends foo.bar/baz and the server replies ”10 username:”, what does the following query from the client look like then?
2020-10-29 16:16:53	acdw	should be foo.bar/baz?<username>
2020-10-29 16:17:03	acdw	where <username> is the client supplied string
2020-10-29 16:17:04	ew0k	If the user enters ”dude”, will the following call be foo.bar/baz?dude or foo.bar/baz?username:dude...?
2020-10-29 16:17:06	acdw	s/client/user
2020-10-29 16:17:28	acdw	the first one ew0k
2020-10-29 16:17:57	ew0k	so if the client sends foo.bar/baz?dude can the server then reply ”11 password:” ?
2020-10-29 16:18:16	acdw	oh shit, i guess so?
2020-10-29 16:18:23	acdw	but the query would be replaced then
2020-10-29 16:18:29	acdw	you're thinking a flow like
2020-10-29 16:18:42	acdw	C: gemini://foo.bar/baz
2020-10-29 16:18:47	acdw	S: 10 username
2020-10-29 16:18:59	acdw	C: gemini://foo.bar/baz?larry
2020-10-29 16:19:03	acdw	S: 11 password
2020-10-29 16:19:07	ew0k	Replaced or appended? It wouldn’t be foo.bar/baz?dude?pword ?
2020-10-29 16:19:12	acdw	C: gemini://foo.bar/baz?password
2020-10-29 16:19:24	acdw	and the server would save both, then log the user in
2020-10-29 16:19:25	acdw	ohhh nice
2020-10-29 16:19:41	acdw	ew0k: the URL spec says that there can only be one query in the URL
2020-10-29 16:19:53	ew0k	Ah!
2020-10-29 16:19:55	acdw	that's why GET requests stack them with & 
2020-10-29 16:20:12	acdw	like example.com?user=bill&password=secret
2020-10-29 16:20:29	acdw	you *could* do a 10 login
2020-10-29 16:20:35	acdw	oops, sorry login
2020-10-29 16:20:50	ew0k	well, if foo.bar/baz requires a cert the flow could work
2020-10-29 16:21:02	acdw	you *could* ask the user to format the string, like user=bill;pass=secret
2020-10-29 16:21:13	ew0k	yeah, ”10 username:password” could work
2020-10-29 16:21:15	acdw	what do you mean?
2020-10-29 16:21:19	acdw	the cert thing?
2020-10-29 16:21:45	ew0k	hold on... I need to type this from my computer instead :D
2020-10-29 16:24:46	acdw	haha
2020-10-29 16:26:36	ew0k	C: foo.bar/login
2020-10-29 16:26:36	ew0k	S: 60
2020-10-29 16:26:36	ew0k	C: foo.bar/login (with cert A)
2020-10-29 16:26:36	ew0k	S: stores cert A, sends "10 username:"
2020-10-29 16:26:36	ew0k	C: foo.bar/login?larry
2020-10-29 16:26:36	ew0k	S: connects username to cert A, sends "11 password:"
2020-10-29 16:26:36	ew0k	C: foo.bar/login?s3cret
2020-10-29 16:26:36	ew0k	S: 20 ...
2020-10-29 16:26:44	ew0k	sorry for the spam :)
2020-10-29 16:27:44	ew0k	it's a bit of a dance, but after that the server can ḱeep cert A as one of a number of "active" logins for that user.
2020-10-29 16:28:19	acdw	OH 
2020-10-29 16:28:20	acdw	smart
2020-10-29 16:28:36	acdw	so you'd only do that on first use of the client cert?
2020-10-29 16:28:45	ew0k	yeah, exactly
2020-10-29 16:28:48	acdw	very nice
2020-10-29 16:29:01	acdw	you could even have an email flow, all 2fa style
2020-10-29 16:29:10	ew0k	deffo
2020-10-29 16:29:19	acdw	like, "This is the first time we've seen this cert, input your email for a code"
2020-10-29 16:29:21	acdw	vvv nice
2020-10-29 16:29:24	acdw	i'm loving this
2020-10-29 16:31:36	ew0k	but, this may complicate it a little: "E.g. if a request for gemini://example.com/foo returns status 60 and the user chooses to generate a new client certificate in response to this, that same certificate should be used for subsequent requests to gemini://example.com/foo, gemini://example.com/foo/bar/, gemini://example.com/foo/bar/baz,"
2020-10-29 16:31:53	acdw	how so?
2020-10-29 16:32:53	ew0k	in my example the client is likely to only use the cert on calls to foo.bar/login, foo.bar/login/stuff, etc. If the server operator wants the cert to be used from foo.bar/ and downwards then foo.bar/ *must* require a login
2020-10-29 16:33:40	ew0k	of course, if you want to allow logged-out users you have two options that I see
2020-10-29 16:34:02	acdw	ah .. tho i think it makes sense to have a landing page on / that's world-readable
2020-10-29 16:34:17	acdw	and have everything user-centric behind /user or /login
2020-10-29 16:34:36	ew0k	1) foo.bar/ always returns 60, so it always demands a client certificate. But the login link points to foo.bar/?login, which initiates the dance
2020-10-29 16:35:30	ew0k	2) foo.bar/ doesn't demand a client cert. You have a login link that points to foo.bar/?login, and that starts by returning 60 if the client is not using a cert
2020-10-29 16:36:27	acdw	1) i think is wrong -- there'd be no link if the server returns 60 on foo.bar/
2020-10-29 16:36:32	ew0k	that would mean foo.bar for the anonymous user could return "Hello! This is us!", but the logged in user can get "Hey, Larry! Welcome back!"
2020-10-29 16:37:00	ew0k	not until the client presents a certificate
2020-10-29 16:37:07	acdw	with 2), the link would point to foo.bar/login
2020-10-29 16:37:32	acdw	oh i think i understand?
2020-10-29 16:37:35	ew0k	but the client could generate a short-lived certificate if so inclined
2020-10-29 16:37:39	acdw	2) is def beter in my opinion
2020-10-29 16:38:17		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-29 16:38:49	ew0k	the link *should* be able to point to foo.bar/?login, since foo.bar/ would present a default page (usually index.gmi), but not necessarily redirect the user to foo.bar/index.gmi -- this is common on the web already
2020-10-29 16:39:42	acdw	hm, yeah it could, but i think foo.bar/index.gmi being the landing page and having a /login link would be better
2020-10-29 16:39:53	acdw	then the /login would ask for a cert, then user, pass, etc
2020-10-29 16:39:58	acdw	my 2c
2020-10-29 16:40:08	ew0k	it would definitely look and feel cleaner.
2020-10-29 16:41:14	acdw	ye
2020-10-29 16:43:39	▬▬▶	ffuentes has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 16:43:40	ffuentes	lmao
2020-10-29 16:44:02	ew0k	ffuentes: share the fun!
2020-10-29 16:44:03	ew0k	:D 
2020-10-29 16:48:25	ew0k	can a TLS client cert be used as or converted to an openssl public key?
2020-10-29 16:48:39	ew0k	(jumping topics completely now :D )
2020-10-29 16:48:45	acdw	i have no idea lol
2020-10-29 16:49:04	★	jan6 wonders what the most minimal gemini getter would be, lol
2020-10-29 16:50:13	acdw	printf '%s\r\n' "gemini://example.com/" | openssl s_client -quiet -ign_eof -server example.com -connect example.com:1965
2020-10-29 16:50:23	acdw	^ that
2020-10-29 16:50:32	jan6	sux gnutls-cli is very much intended for debug only, no way to get rid of extra fluff making it an unusable, and curl also ALMOST works, but tries to also send Accept: */* and some other header
2020-10-29 16:50:36	jan6	that much I know, lol
2020-10-29 16:51:01	acdw	jan6: self-plug here, but have you seen bollux? I wrote it around the line I just sent
2020-10-29 16:51:22	jan6	have YOU seen my gemini-get tho? ;P
2020-10-29 16:51:29	acdw	haha nope
2020-10-29 16:51:31	acdw	lemme see it
2020-10-29 16:51:34	jan6	openssl s_client AND socat versions ;P
2020-10-29 16:51:41	acdw	ooohhhh
2020-10-29 16:51:49	ericonr	openssl is bloat </rant>
2020-10-29 16:51:54	acdw	lol
2020-10-29 16:52:01	acdw	you could bearssl it or whatev
2020-10-29 16:52:11	ericonr	that's the one my getter uses :P
2020-10-29 16:52:19	ericonr	but bearssl tries to protect you too hard
2020-10-29 16:52:24	ericonr	so TOFU over it is kinda meh
2020-10-29 16:52:24	jan6	yes
2020-10-29 16:52:30	jan6	TLS1.3 tho
2020-10-29 16:52:38	acdw	ah
2020-10-29 16:52:44	ericonr	jan6: it's in progress, I think
2020-10-29 16:52:49	ericonr	for bearssl, I mean
2020-10-29 16:52:54	acdw	jan6: oh yeah, add --no_tls1 etc to the openssl command line
2020-10-29 16:53:31	jan6	https://tildegit.org/jan6/geminish
2020-10-29 16:53:48	jan6	I'm just doing openssl s_client -connect "$domain":1965 -quiet -verify_quiet
2020-10-29 16:54:06	ericonr	ew0k: a client cert has a public key, doesn't it?
2020-10-29 16:54:15	ericonr	should be a matter of extracting it from the cert
2020-10-29 16:54:53	acdw	nice jan6! fyi read has a -p option
2020-10-29 16:55:06	acdw	look at openssl x509 ericonr
2020-10-29 16:55:52	jan6	read does NOT have -p
2020-10-29 16:56:01	jan6	gnu-isms and bash-isms don't count ;P
2020-10-29 16:56:06	jan6	pure posix only
2020-10-29 16:56:06	acdw	oh lol
2020-10-29 16:56:08	acdw	sry
2020-10-29 16:56:14	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 16:56:45	acdw	haha
2020-10-29 16:56:51	ew0k	ericonr: the client cert *is* the public half of a key pair, iirc
2020-10-29 16:57:03	acdw	i gave up on posix sh for bollux b/c of openssl
2020-10-29 16:57:10	ericonr	ew0k: then you should be able to extract it
2020-10-29 16:57:14	acdw	i figured, it has this requirement, bash is fine
2020-10-29 16:57:16	ew0k	the question is if it has a format that can be used by openssh somehow
2020-10-29 16:57:17	ericonr	see the command acdw suggested
2020-10-29 16:57:31	ericonr	ew0k: ooh
2020-10-29 16:57:32	acdw	also i got to use bash's arrays and regex capabilities to have it in *almost* pure bash
2020-10-29 16:57:41	ericonr	I would bet on PEM export probably working
2020-10-29 16:57:47	ericonr	PEM is kinda neat
2020-10-29 16:57:51	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 16:57:52	ew0k	yeah, could work
2020-10-29 16:57:59	ericonr	terrible
2020-10-29 16:58:00	ericonr	but neat
2020-10-29 16:58:12	ew0k	better than java keytool
2020-10-29 16:58:12	acdw	PEM?
2020-10-29 16:58:40	ew0k	acdw: a common certificate format
2020-10-29 16:58:55	ew0k	the two most common ones are PEM and x509
2020-10-29 16:59:00	★	jan6 knows zero C or D, but is wondering about trying to make a gemini fetcher "client" in D just for the sake of being able to request addition to wikis and add another language to the mix, lol
2020-10-29 16:59:05	ew0k	.pem and .crt respectively
2020-10-29 16:59:13	acdw	ah
2020-10-29 16:59:20	acdw	do it jan6
2020-10-29 16:59:21	ericonr	ew0k: PEM is encoding :P
2020-10-29 16:59:25	jan6	I think PEM is also how stuff like gpg and ssh keys are usually shared
2020-10-29 16:59:25	ericonr	not certificate format
2020-10-29 16:59:26	acdw	do one in brainfuck :)
2020-10-29 16:59:32	ericonr	you can encode anything in PEM
2020-10-29 16:59:37	acdw	huh, til
2020-10-29 16:59:37	ew0k	ericonr: I stand corrected :)
2020-10-29 16:59:40	jan6	brainfuck doesn't do TLS, acdw ;P
2020-10-29 16:59:44	ericonr	even a PEM file, for infinite recursion
2020-10-29 16:59:48	jan6	even tho there are variants with networking
2020-10-29 17:00:01	acdw	jan6: looks like you need to write a TLS client in brainfuck then too
2020-10-29 17:00:06	jan6	lol noooo
2020-10-29 17:00:21	jan6	I can't even figure out how to use already existing TLS libraries in C/D/etc
2020-10-29 17:00:21	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 17:01:00	ericonr	jan6: if you want any inspiration, shameless plug incoming: https://github.com/ericonr/purr-c
2020-10-29 17:01:01	jan6	stuff like wolfssl seems kinda cool, I even tried NSS, but no examples, or docs, that are good enough
2020-10-29 17:01:02	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 17:01:15	ericonr	I'm using bearssl there
2020-10-29 17:01:27	jan6	iirc that only does TLS1.2
2020-10-29 17:01:32	ericonr	indeed
2020-10-29 17:01:45	jan6	but also iirc that one I even got to work or such, way back when I tried it before
2020-10-29 17:01:46	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 17:01:49	ericonr	but if you have a server that only accepts tls 1.3, your server kinda sucks :P
2020-10-29 17:02:05	★	jan6 should set up a gemini server for no reason, lol
2020-10-29 17:02:21	acdw	the reason is, you want to!
2020-10-29 17:02:22	acdw	do it
2020-10-29 17:02:26	acdw	it's fun
2020-10-29 17:02:40	jan6	no time
2020-10-29 17:02:41	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 17:02:45	jan6	also no content
2020-10-29 17:03:00	ew0k	jan6: build a social network!
2020-10-29 17:03:02	ew0k	:D 
2020-10-29 17:03:05	jan6	just like I have a "web server" with like, 2 pages, total
2020-10-29 17:03:08	acdw	do it do it
2020-10-29 17:03:09	ew0k	microblogging platform!
2020-10-29 17:03:12	acdw	heck ye
2020-10-29 17:03:12	ericonr	acdw: I will start hosting when I get to writing my own 
2020-10-29 17:03:16	jan6	twtxt already exists
2020-10-29 17:03:17	acdw	nice!
2020-10-29 17:03:26	ew0k	twtxt?
2020-10-29 17:03:28	jan6	yes
2020-10-29 17:03:32	jan6	twtxt is cool
2020-10-29 17:03:37	ericonr	I should probably host that on a separate machine, tho
2020-10-29 17:03:39	acdw	twtxt over gemini
2020-10-29 17:03:46	ericonr	for security concerns
2020-10-29 17:03:58	acdw	sure!
2020-10-29 17:05:06	jan6	https://github.com/buckket/twtxt, one central place is https://twtxt.envs.net/ I think there was another tildeverse one too
2020-10-29 17:05:44	jan6	basically all you do is host a txt file SOMEWHERE, in a specific format, and boom
2020-10-29 17:06:20	acdw	yeah i gotta get on that
2020-10-29 17:06:59	jan6	usually http(s) but you can also do file:/// or whatnot protocol, it's not limited in the spec, only the official client is limited ;P
2020-10-29 17:07:11	acdw	nice :)
2020-10-29 17:07:19	acdw	i'd cohost it b/w gemini and http
2020-10-29 17:07:21	acdw	maybe gopher, idk
2020-10-29 17:07:26	jan6	so a gemini://my.doma.in/tw.txt is totally doable, or gopher ;P
2020-10-29 17:07:54	jan6	just symlink it between the places, and boom, cohosting P;
2020-10-29 17:07:55	jan6	P;
2020-10-29 17:09:28	acdw	yep
2020-10-29 17:09:32	acdw	:D
2020-10-29 17:09:44	acdw	what face is that -- P;
2020-10-29 17:09:46	acdw	:P
2020-10-29 17:09:52	ew0k	That is, in all its simplicity, quite spectacular
2020-10-29 17:10:00	ew0k	twtxt, that is
2020-10-29 17:10:42	ew0k	tweeting is just appending to a public txt file, and the client basically polls a bunch of these and sort the tweets in order?
2020-10-29 17:11:00	jan6	;P
2020-10-29 17:11:20	jan6	it is and at some point there was quite a few people experimenting with it on the tildeverse
2020-10-29 17:11:26	ew0k	no user profiles?
2020-10-29 17:11:40	ew0k	no likes and retweets?
2020-10-29 17:12:16	acdw	i think you can respond? or copy-paste?
2020-10-29 17:13:01	ew0k	you can mention people, of course
2020-10-29 17:13:02	jan6	weeeelll
2020-10-29 17:13:09	jan6	you can mention, but no likes or such
2020-10-29 17:13:12	ew0k	and if they follow you they'll see that
2020-10-29 17:13:13	jan6	you can just reply with +1
2020-10-29 17:13:14	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 17:13:24	jan6	um, no you won't
2020-10-29 17:13:37	acdw	hm
2020-10-29 17:13:40	ew0k	hm?
2020-10-29 17:14:06	ew0k	If I mention @blargh, and blargh happens to follow my feed then they'd see it, right?
2020-10-29 17:14:09	jan6	following is literally just adding another txt file to pull to the client
2020-10-29 17:14:26	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 17:14:38	ew0k	but. If blargh doesn't follow me I can mention them all I want. Won't make a difference :)
2020-10-29 17:14:47	jan6	the twtxt registries help solve those problems tho
2020-10-29 17:15:12	jan6	but twtxt itself is just text files, no pushing of anything, if they don't follow you they don't see your mention
2020-10-29 17:15:25	jan6	the registries deal with stuff like mentions from unknown people tho
2020-10-29 17:18:05	jan6	yeah, registry just lets you query/search for tags and mentions and words and latest tweets
2020-10-29 17:18:15	jan6	following you just gotta announce manually ;P
2020-10-29 17:18:35	jan6	back a long time when I tried it out, I devised a kinda self-imposed format, btw
2020-10-29 17:18:40	jan6	a verrry simple one
2020-10-29 17:21:18	ew0k	Tell us more
2020-10-29 17:22:34	felix	Actually, clients include your own feed URL in the user agent string.
2020-10-29 17:22:42	jan6	https://jan6.tilde.team/twtxt.txt
2020-10-29 17:22:56	felix	So if the people you follow watch their web server logs, they'll see you.
2020-10-29 17:23:24	jan6	my format allows for up to 99 replies to any single post! and is easy extendable to 999 with an extra digit ;P
2020-10-29 17:23:41	jan6	pretty sure the clients don't HAVE to include
2020-10-29 17:23:45	jan6	official client is just one
2020-10-29 17:24:03	jan6	and while official client limits line lenght, the format doesn't limit that either
2020-10-29 17:24:06	jan6	iirc
2020-10-29 17:24:22	acdw	wait twtxt has a limit of characters?
2020-10-29 17:24:29	acdw	plau gpp
2020-10-29 17:24:31	acdw	okay good
2020-10-29 17:24:45	felix	In my experience, even simple clients like txtnish do that.
2020-10-29 17:25:08	felix	And the spec says 140 chars max, but clients tend to ignore that.
2020-10-29 17:25:29	jan6	it does no
2020-10-29 17:25:31	jan6	not
2020-10-29 17:25:33	jan6	"A status should consist of up to 140 characters, longer status updates are technically possible but discouraged. "
2020-10-29 17:25:37	jan6	SHOULD
2020-10-29 17:25:49	jan6	it specifically says discouraged, as in, allowed, but not a good idea ;P
2020-10-29 17:27:13	jan6	only rules are "RFC 3339 date-time string (with or without UTC offset) followed by a TAB character (\t) to separate it from the actual text. UTF-8 with \n newlines" and how to mention people
2020-10-29 17:27:18	jan6	that's it about the spec
2020-10-29 17:27:19	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 17:27:40	jan6	oh and "no control characters in status"
2020-10-29 17:27:41	jan6	sadly
2020-10-29 17:29:24	★	jan6 wonders about dynamic twtxt pages, maybe page.twtxt.cgi?year=2020 and such? ;P
2020-10-29 17:30:31	ew0k	Haha
2020-10-29 17:30:56	jan6	or locked away with access tokens, which is very non-twtxt philosophy
2020-10-29 17:31:21	acdw	no control characters, that's bs
2020-10-29 17:31:22	acdw	:P
2020-10-29 17:31:32	acdw	i want to draw a picutre in someone's terminal
2020-10-29 17:32:01	@tomasino	. <-- i drew an ant. he smol
2020-10-29 17:32:20	acdw	ENHANCE
2020-10-29 17:32:30	acdw	🐜
2020-10-29 17:32:35	@tomasino	O <-- that's one of his eyes
2020-10-29 17:32:44	jan6	_-¯-_-Ø-<
2020-10-29 17:32:45	acdw	\ \ <- antennae
2020-10-29 17:32:46	jan6	snek
2020-10-29 17:32:49	acdw	haha
2020-10-29 17:32:53	@tomasino	:D
2020-10-29 17:33:00	Dr-WaSabi	tomasino: so you know that link you have on your gemini page to the nightly irc logs?
2020-10-29 17:33:07	@tomasino	i do know of that
2020-10-29 17:33:09	acdw	 /\o/\ spider
2020-10-29 17:33:24	acdw	(^v^) owl
2020-10-29 17:33:40	Dr-WaSabi	do you have geminaut loaded any where?
2020-10-29 17:33:46	acdw	(OvO) actually this is a better owl
2020-10-29 17:34:04	@tomasino	geminaut? no
2020-10-29 17:34:10	jan6	Ø‘v‘Ø
2020-10-29 17:34:11	Dr-WaSabi	need to try it Bombadillo and see if works
2020-10-29 17:34:45	@tomasino	i have lagrange and kristall on this comp
2020-10-29 17:34:50	@tomasino	and av98 on cosmic
2020-10-29 17:35:24	@tomasino	works and is readable in lagrange
2020-10-29 17:35:52	Dr-WaSabi	link works in bombadillo, so might be something about GemiNaut that doesn't like it
2020-10-29 17:36:10	@tomasino	it's long
2020-10-29 17:36:12	@tomasino	that's about it
2020-10-29 17:36:21	Dr-WaSabi	thats what I was thinking
2020-10-29 17:36:51	@tomasino	4.3M
2020-10-29 17:36:55	Dr-WaSabi	lagrange... gonna have to check that out.. love the name
2020-10-29 17:37:02	@tomasino	it's very pretty
2020-10-29 17:41:56		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-29 17:44:04	felix	jan6: belatedly, you might want to check out twtxt.net
2020-10-29 17:44:41	jan6	no
2020-10-29 17:44:45	jan6	I did already
2020-10-29 17:44:47	jan6	it's horrible
2020-10-29 17:45:17	jan6	https://twt.social/
2020-10-29 17:45:19	jan6	same thing
2020-10-29 17:47:08	acdw	fully managed host pods?!
2020-10-29 17:47:15	felix	Yep.
2020-10-29 17:47:47	felix	Right now it's not the most reliable service.
2020-10-29 17:47:57	felix	It's one enthusiast tinkering away.
2020-10-29 17:48:12	jan6	Twt.social is a new Social Media platform that focuses on:
2020-10-29 17:48:12	jan6	NOTE: If you’re not interested in running your own Pod or just wante to join an existing Pod (or you’re not that technical) then please visit out joinTwt landing page instead where you will find links to our iOS and Android apps and how to get started!
2020-10-29 17:48:13	jan6	lmao
2020-10-29 17:48:26	jan6	I like how it's not even notice first, it's "that focuses on NOTICE"
2020-10-29 17:48:31	felix	Yes. It's not some big professional thing.
2020-10-29 17:49:06	jan6	of course it's always weird how even big companies's pages have typos on them
2020-10-29 17:59:53	jan6	lol some people losing their mind (both positively and negatively) over https://dtinth.github.io/comic-mono-font/
2020-10-29 18:03:44	felix	Ah yes, the most controversial font in existence.
2020-10-29 18:05:02	acdw	i like comic sans
2020-10-29 18:05:49	kiedtl	you miserable heretic
2020-10-29 18:05:55	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 18:06:00	kiedtl	burn acdw!
2020-10-29 18:06:03	jan6	comic mono is the best font
2020-10-29 18:06:11	★	kiedtl pings ops
2020-10-29 18:06:22	★	jan6 surrounds kiedtl with Papyrus
2020-10-29 18:06:23	acdw	fantasque sans mono is nice too
2020-10-29 18:06:27	acdw	but I *really* like Go Mono
2020-10-29 18:06:28	ericonr	jan6: that gives me physical discomfort
2020-10-29 18:06:32	ericonr	congratulations
2020-10-29 18:06:39	jan6	,grab ericonr 2
2020-10-29 18:06:39	tildebot	[Quotes] Quote added
2020-10-29 18:06:42	acdw	no actually: https://rubjo.github.io/victor-mono/
2020-10-29 18:07:45	★	jan6 gonna try figuring out wolfssl, probably...(formerly cyassl)
2020-10-29 18:08:05	ericonr	jan6: lol
2020-10-29 18:09:23	jan6	let's see if I give up very soon, or just soon
2020-10-29 18:09:23	jan6	lol
2020-10-29 18:09:33	jan6	I still have BearSSL in my ~/tmp
2020-10-29 18:09:51	jan6	and yes of course I also have a ~/tmp in addition to /tmp being persistent, lol
2020-10-29 18:10:51		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-29 18:23:02		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-29 18:28:45		anton|pw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-29 18:30:08	▬▬▶	kernel_pancake has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 18:30:12	kernel_pancake	o/
2020-10-29 18:30:35	felix	Hello!
2020-10-29 18:30:44	kernel_pancake	I made my first gemini page 10m ago
2020-10-29 18:30:48	kernel_pancake	and I like it
2020-10-29 18:30:52	kernel_pancake	not my page, but gemini
2020-10-29 18:31:26	felix	Congrats!
2020-10-29 18:31:36	kernel_pancake	love that it supports markdown
2020-10-29 18:31:37	felix	And welcome to the club!
2020-10-29 18:31:53	felix	Well, kind of? It's mostly a subset.
2020-10-29 18:32:06	khuxkm	you can serve straight text/markdown on gemini
2020-10-29 18:32:07	kernel_pancake	preformatted text and headers are working at least :p
2020-10-29 18:32:28	felix	Right, also lists and blockquotes.
2020-10-29 18:33:08	kernel_pancake	what is not supported that you wish it did?
2020-10-29 18:36:39	felix	Horizontal rules.
2020-10-29 18:37:04	khuxkm	again, you can serve straight text/markdown over gemini
2020-10-29 18:37:28	kernel_pancake	felix: maybe the client should implement that
2020-10-29 18:37:30	felix	Yes, you can. It's not the same thing.
2020-10-29 18:37:50	felix	And the client implements all markup, by definition.
2020-10-29 18:39:14	kiedtl	khuxkm: I don't think very many clients support it.
2020-10-29 18:40:54	khuxkm	okay but that's the fault of the clients
2020-10-29 18:41:02	khuxkm	the protocol will allow you to serve text/markdown
2020-10-29 18:41:23	khuxkm	it's up to the clients to support it
2020-10-29 18:41:37	khuxkm	geez, after I finish writing Big Tiddy Gemini Server, I guess I'll need to write Big Tiddy Gemini Client
2020-10-29 18:42:12	kernel_pancake	lmfao
2020-10-29 18:42:21	kernel_pancake	sign me up for that
2020-10-29 18:48:00	kiedtl	hmm yes, I wonder whether I should write a gemini client that support HTML
2020-10-29 18:48:24	★	Sario528 hisses and recoils
2020-10-29 18:48:42	kiedtl	Best Viewed By Kiedimini
2020-10-29 18:48:56	khuxkm	hell yeah
2020-10-29 18:49:06	felix	Kristall renders Markdown, and also supports HTTP(S).
2020-10-29 18:49:22	kiedtl	eww really?
2020-10-29 18:50:13	felix	Yes, really. Why ew? People keep saying, if you want richer markup, just make a web page.
2020-10-29 18:50:31	felix	So someone implemented a client that can fall back on web pages.
2020-10-29 18:51:49	felix	Otherwise you might as well just have a text editor autodetect URLs and let you follow them.
2020-10-29 18:52:36	felix	Look, ma! No markup!
2020-10-29 18:52:39	kiedtl	cuz it's high treason against the kingdom of gemini
2020-10-29 18:52:42	kiedtl	lol
2020-10-29 18:57:04	felix	No, seriously. In principle wget + less + tmux equals a web browser.
2020-10-29 18:58:13	kiedtl	Yeah
2020-10-29 18:59:43	felix	So why don't we settle for that? Some people seem to think it's plenty enough for Gemini.
2020-10-29 18:59:58	felix	There are several clients that are essentially nothing more.
2020-10-29 19:01:11	aravk	though you do need to deal with INPUT
2020-10-29 19:02:42	felix	Arguably.
2020-10-29 19:03:22	felix	But mostly, I get the impression that Gemini was always just meant to be a little experiment, and then people started using it for real.
2020-10-29 19:03:45	felix	I know exactly what it's like because at least two things I made were received the same way.
2020-10-29 19:04:01	felix	And it say "experimental" in big letters all over them.
2020-10-29 19:04:21	felix	said*
2020-10-29 19:05:38	kiedtl	HTML is definitely against the stated goals of gemini, right?
2020-10-29 19:05:47	aravk	yep
2020-10-29 19:05:49	aravk	changes all the time
2020-10-29 19:05:54	aravk	too big and complicated
2020-10-29 19:06:00	kiedtl	Yeah, that's what I thought
2020-10-29 19:06:17	zephryn	it definitely is quite a beast of a specification
2020-10-29 19:06:32	aravk	and then CSS and JS
2020-10-29 19:06:42	aravk	it's a massive mess
2020-10-29 19:06:47	zephryn	there certainly isn't anything stopping it from being used with gemini, though
2020-10-29 19:06:56	aravk	no, but it's generally discouraged.
2020-10-29 19:06:58	ew0k	True
2020-10-29 19:07:21	kiedtl	CSS and JS don't necessarily have to go together with HTML
2020-10-29 19:07:47	ew0k	I reckon the easiest way to make geminispace visible would be to try to add support for it in chromium
2020-10-29 19:08:01	ew0k	but that sounds like a horrible idea to me
2020-10-29 19:08:02	aravk	kiedtl: nearly everyone uses CSS to properly style HTML
2020-10-29 19:08:10	kiedtl	You don't *have* to
2020-10-29 19:08:13	aravk	would chromium even accept it?
2020-10-29 19:08:17	zephryn	i would definitely be interested in seeing something between text/gemini and html being used
2020-10-29 19:08:23	aravk	and I would personally keep gemini out of google's vision
2020-10-29 19:08:28	kiedtl	aren't there extensions that allow gemini to be used in chromium?
2020-10-29 19:08:30	ew0k	aravk: probably not
2020-10-29 19:08:32	aravk	zephryn: markdown?
2020-10-29 19:08:40	zephryn	yeah, something like markdown
2020-10-29 19:09:19	zephryn	maybe a custom flavor of it that cuts down on some redundancies
2020-10-29 19:09:24	aravk	I mean, what more styling do you need that gemtext doesn't provide
2020-10-29 19:09:49	aravk	I was a big markdown proponent, but for most things gemtext works very well
2020-10-29 19:10:01	zephryn	you're not wrong yeah
2020-10-29 19:10:10	aravk	though I am still looking for a good structured code documentation format (like TeXInfo but better)
2020-10-29 19:11:03	zephryn	i suppose things like inline images could be interpreted by clients as well without expanding text/gemini
2020-10-29 19:11:51	felix	A lot of things could be, but people yell every time anything new is suggested.
2020-10-29 19:11:51	aravk	it's up to the client
2020-10-29 19:12:12	aravk	they can offer to download and view images if they see a known extension in the URL
2020-10-29 19:12:20	aravk	(view inline)
2020-10-29 19:13:16	ew0k	zephryn: in the client I’ve started working on I intend to load images inline, but only when the user clicks the link
2020-10-29 19:13:48	zephryn	i love that aspect of gemini tbh, it provides just enough as a base protocol but still lets clients expand on it without affecting the specs
2020-10-29 19:14:01	ericonr	jkadjasdjadjk
2020-10-29 19:14:10	ericonr	oops
2020-10-29 19:14:12	ericonr	sorry
2020-10-29 19:14:21	aravk	ew0k: that's a good feature
2020-10-29 19:14:50	aravk	what do you do if it turns out that the MIME type of the result is not an image?
2020-10-29 19:26:37	jan6	ew0k: lmao no, not chromium, buuuut go and patch curl ;P
2020-10-29 19:26:55	jan6	curl already supports gopher, so why not gemini? ;P
2020-10-29 19:27:32	jan6	also fork one of the native gopher extentions for gemini, also works
2020-10-29 19:28:29	jan6	"<aravk> I mean, what more styling do you need that gemtext doesn't provide" bold, italic, underline...literally all I'm asking for, and it doesn't deliver ;p
2020-10-29 19:29:49	jan6	screw headers, screw inline images, who cares about links, just copy those (terminals make 'em clickable anyway if you conf 'em right), those three is all I need, and nope, not in gemtext ;P
2020-10-29 19:31:59	ew0k	I’d love to have bold, italic, underline, hline, maybe strikethrough, nested lists, numbered lists... But I also see that adding any of those would make it more complex to build a parser.
2020-10-29 19:32:16	ew0k	I’ll just use ordinary markdown if I need them
2020-10-29 19:35:33	jan6	well, could always do it like roff
2020-10-29 19:35:34	jan6	;P
2020-10-29 19:36:41	jan6	wouldn't be hard to make special cases, like "if line ends with _ or * or -, join it with next line", and you can just add a space to prevent that
2020-10-29 19:37:04		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-29 19:37:11	jan6	and just have those be extra line types as well
2020-10-29 19:37:17	jan6	no nesting allowed, still
2020-10-29 19:38:07	jan6	very much doable and not hard, just extra stuff to write for clients
2020-10-29 19:38:45	jan6	"check first bytes of line" still works, too ;P
2020-10-29 19:41:50	ew0k	jan6: I found this: https://curl.haxx.se/mail/lib-2013-01/0124.html
2020-10-29 19:42:03	ew0k	putting that on my reading list
2020-10-29 19:56:34	★	jan6 always hates how there's no EOF indicator in gemini
2020-10-29 20:03:42		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-29 20:07:22	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 20:35:27	ℹ 	Sario528 is now known as Sario|IRCCloud
2020-10-29 20:41:20	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 20:55:54		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-29 20:59:27	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 21:34:16		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-29 21:52:01	▬▬▶	mink has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 21:52:21		mink has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-29 21:52:37	▬▬▶	mink has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 21:57:51		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-29 22:03:04	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-29 22:14:07	kiedtl	Oh, gemtext doesn't support multiline list items? >.>
2020-10-29 22:16:10	acdw	no
2020-10-29 22:16:17	acdw	but you can write a reallllllly long line :)
2020-10-29 22:17:44	kiedtl	multi-lined list items would be clearer in many cases :V
2020-10-29 22:18:06	kiedtl	as usual, I think I'll just pretend gemtext has those for now
2020-10-29 22:18:34	acdw	haha
2020-10-29 22:19:01	acdw	well, the thing is, gemtext is a line-oriented format, so multiline anything would kind of require a whole rethink
2020-10-29 22:19:31	@tomasino	just more * lines?
2020-10-29 22:22:31	dctrud	If you feel you need a list of multi-line stuff... maybe it can just be a series of headings and content?
2020-10-29 22:23:14	@tomasino	or ```
2020-10-29 22:23:21	@tomasino	or just hit enter 
2020-10-29 22:23:47	dctrud	As soon as multi line lists come into play in other places, people think about wanting to embed preformatted into a list etc, and it gets more complicated.
2020-10-29 22:23:58	acdw	i guess what we're saying is,,,, wht do you need about mutliline list?
2020-10-29 22:24:20	dctrud	I fight with word and google docs lists which have code formatted monospace into them too often
2020-10-29 22:24:24	dctrud	:-)
2020-10-29 22:24:46	ew0k	jan6: is it a preference or does a lack of EOF cause issues? I was surprised to see that it doesn’t have it, but I haven’t thought more about it
2020-10-29 22:25:28	acdw	(google docs)--
2020-10-29 22:25:47	dctrud	$work is all GSuite - yay
2020-10-29 22:25:49	acdw	i was just talking to my coworker yesterday about how i hate all rich text formats, they end up failing me at some point
2020-10-29 22:27:14	dctrud	The EOF thing isn't without precedent. FTP RFC has e.g. "data transfers must be completed with an end-of-file (EOF) which may be explicitly stated or implied by the closing of the data connection
2020-10-29 22:28:43	acdw	EOF hasn't caused an issue for me personally
2020-10-29 22:29:27	dctrud	Given gemini is generally transmitting text, with some images, I'd guess it really usually pretty obvious if you get a premature end of the data coming down
2020-10-29 22:30:17	dctrud	(for the human)
2020-10-29 22:31:00	acdw	even with images/audio/otherstuff, a user would prolly tell as long as it's not abstract
2020-10-29 22:32:56	dctrud	Guess you can get away without so much complexity and stuff if you are delivering things to a smart human, and not a dumb computer (like an HTTP REST client etc.) :-)
2020-10-29 22:33:31	acdw	lol yep
2020-10-29 22:33:37	acdw	,grap dctrud
2020-10-29 22:33:42	acdw	,grab dctrud
2020-10-29 22:33:42	tildebot	[Quotes] Quote added
2020-10-29 22:49:19		nixo has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-29 22:59:13		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-29 23:43:31		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-30 00:05:33		kernel_pancake has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-10-30 00:10:17		ffuentes has left #gemini
2020-10-30 00:13:28		superprower has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 00:15:47	▬▬▶	superprower has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 01:03:49	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 02:02:06	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 02:08:50		praetorian has left #gemini ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
2020-10-30 03:21:58	▬▬▶	zdragon has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 03:50:53	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 03:57:33		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-10-30 04:06:12	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 04:06:36		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-10-30 05:18:09		zdragon has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 05:18:41	▬▬▶	zdragon has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 05:23:56		praetorian has quit (quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-30 06:38:58		zdragon has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 06:57:30	jan6	ew0k: both, mainly the problem that you never know if a transfer is finished, or interrupted, or in progress
2020-10-30 06:57:54	jan6	well, you do know in progress I suppose
2020-10-30 06:58:36	jan6	but you don't know if server crashed, or there was a network error, or the page loaded successfully
2020-10-30 06:58:56	jan6	even an optional EOF would be cool
2020-10-30 07:01:44	ew0k	I mean... the participant that closes a socket automatically sends an EOF, right?
2020-10-30 07:01:48	ew0k	iirc
2020-10-30 07:02:17	jan6	and at least with some libraries, the socket stays open, as in, you can try to read another line, and it will just return nothing, not even indicating that stuff's over
2020-10-30 07:02:30	jan6	might have been python or something, don't remember
2020-10-30 07:02:36	ew0k	oh
2020-10-30 07:02:39	jan6	or something else
2020-10-30 07:02:53	ew0k	I've only done socket programming in C. Almost a decade ago :P
2020-10-30 07:03:04	jan6	so I basically had to hardcode stuff like "if getting no data for 2 seconds, assume it's over"
2020-10-30 07:03:19	jan6	or maybe it was haxe
2020-10-30 07:03:26	jan6	don't remember what that was, lol
2020-10-30 07:04:09	ew0k	There is reason to set a timeout for transfers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slowloris_(computer_security)
2020-10-30 07:06:30	ew0k	I guess a content-length header would preclude the need for an EOF too
2020-10-30 07:06:57	jan6	yeah
2020-10-30 07:07:05	ew0k	if you haven't received all the bits and pieces yet, you're obviously not done so to speak :)
2020-10-30 07:07:13	jan6	but "yet another header, and gemini's not supposed to be extentible"
2020-10-30 07:07:14	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 07:07:32	jan6	a content-length header would be cool
2020-10-30 07:07:50	ew0k	As acdw said yesterday it can just be added with the mime-type etc
2020-10-30 07:08:05	jan6	but, but, non-extendability! ;P
2020-10-30 07:08:36	jan6	would be best if it was a required part of standards
2020-10-30 07:08:44	ew0k	well. It's *going* to be extended. It's still in some sort of beta, after all
2020-10-30 07:09:05	ew0k	either the worst kinks are worked out or it becomes a fad protocol
2020-10-30 07:09:07	jan6	yeah, this is a small and sane enough change it could be considered
2020-10-30 07:09:31	jan6	gemini+titan network seems cool underground web ;P
2020-10-30 07:10:39	jan6	hmm, on that note, I don't remember, if someone had modded dillo yet to add gemini support? that could be cool too
2020-10-30 07:10:47	★	jan6 should really learn C sometime
2020-10-30 07:10:49	jan6	maybe D too
2020-10-30 07:11:19	jan6	it should be hard to learn, just annoying to deal with all the pointers and addresses and manual memory management and whatnot
2020-10-30 07:11:24	jan6	*shouldn't
2020-10-30 07:12:14	zephryn	funny you say that, i literally just started diving into c like half an hour ago :P
2020-10-30 07:12:38	ew0k	jan6: haha! As I had breakfast this morning I thought about dillo and wondered whether someone had or would add gemini support for it :D 
2020-10-30 07:16:35	ew0k	I thought about yesterday's discussion on markup languages, and the shortcomings of gemtext
2020-10-30 07:18:26	ew0k	I really like gemtext -- especially because it's so easy to parse. Developing a browser that supports it is really simple. But markdown already has parsers for virtually every usable language; if you can render HTML then building a browser that supports HTML, markdown and gemtext would be a breeze
2020-10-30 07:20:24	jan6	markdown was SUPPOSED to be used for converting to html
2020-10-30 07:20:25	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 07:20:44	jan6	the original spec specifically says that any html should be passed through as-is, also
2020-10-30 07:22:17	jan6	I really don't see why my multiline-but-singleline formatting addon idea doesn't seem to be used or loved, btw...and I don't have time, or skill to do much stuff
2020-10-30 07:22:18	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 07:23:26	jan6	in conscription, so not much free time to try stuff
2020-10-30 07:23:38	jan6	even now, I shouldn't be here, but today's an exception
2020-10-30 07:36:51	ew0k	"multiline-but-singleline formatting addon idea" -- I may have been too tired (or not here) when you've talked about this. Can you explain it?
2020-10-30 07:50:11	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 10:12:31	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 10:21:03	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 11:15:46		nerosnm has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-30 11:44:50		mink has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-30 11:53:08	ew0k	sent my first mail to the mailing list! Did it get through?
2020-10-30 12:28:21	▬▬▶	zdragon has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 13:02:07	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 13:27:17		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 13:33:41	ew0k	aravk: sorry, I got you mixed up with acdw :P And I forgot that you sent both proposals to the list
2020-10-30 13:47:46	▬▬▶	aperture has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 13:49:33		aperture has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-30 13:56:14	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 14:02:07	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 14:05:25		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-30 14:13:43	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 14:23:12	khuxkm	i have an implementation question
2020-10-30 14:26:03	khuxkm	say someone requests a directory (gemini://c05f031a.nip.io/directory/)
2020-10-30 14:26:30	@tomasino	cat.nip.io, got it
2020-10-30 14:26:33	khuxkm	and in the server side of things, I can see it's a directory
2020-10-30 14:27:05	khuxkm	1) if I cannot list the directory (not +x), what error code do I give? it's not a *permanent* failure per se, but the server can't do anything
2020-10-30 14:27:36	khuxkm	2) if I don't want to list the directory (i.e; like nginx with directory pages turned off), what error code do I give then?
2020-10-30 14:27:46	@tomasino	you could choose to display an index file if present, list the directory, respond with a blank view as success, or give an error code that the resource is missing
2020-10-30 14:28:07	khuxkm	so I've got the whole index page thing down
2020-10-30 14:28:22	khuxkm	but I guess I'm asking for semantics on what error code to use
2020-10-30 14:28:35	khuxkm	because if I can't list the directory, 51 feels wrong
2020-10-30 14:28:40	khuxkm	it's there, I just can't see it
2020-10-30 14:29:01	khuxkm	there's no 403 unless I want to get into client cert semantics
2020-10-30 14:29:19	khuxkm	well, there's no error code like http 403
2020-10-30 14:29:25	@tomasino	isn't there 40 series that cover that?
2020-10-30 14:29:30	@tomasino	i forget the 40 codes
2020-10-30 14:29:53	khuxkm	I'd have to give a generic 40
2020-10-30 14:30:18	khuxkm	41 = server's overloaded, 42 = CGI error, 43 = proxy error, 44 = rate limit
2020-10-30 14:30:47	@tomasino	oh, looking it up 51 seems right
2020-10-30 14:30:51	@tomasino	not found but may be there in the future
2020-10-30 14:31:04	khuxkm	but that's not the semantic I'm looking for
2020-10-30 14:31:09	khuxkm	I've found it, but I can't access it
2020-10-30 14:31:17	khuxkm	it's there, but unaccessible for some other reason
2020-10-30 14:31:25	khuxkm	web servers would give 403 in that case
2020-10-30 14:31:31	@tomasino	61 CERTIFICATE NOT AUTHORISED ?
2020-10-30 14:31:47	@tomasino	whether you were using a client cert or not, you aren't authorized to see it
2020-10-30 14:31:48	@tomasino	so maybe?
2020-10-30 14:31:58	khuxkm	that's what I was saying about getting into client cert semantics
2020-10-30 14:32:21	khuxkm	my understanding is that it would be out of spec to give 61 without first giving a 60
2020-10-30 14:32:44	@tomasino	would it?
2020-10-30 14:33:47	@tomasino	arguably there could be a 5X code for denied
2020-10-30 14:34:00	@tomasino	but i don't think you'd be wrong to just use 51 or 61
2020-10-30 14:34:14	@tomasino	if you can't access it, it's not there for you, so 51 works
2020-10-30 14:36:16	khuxkm	part of me wants to say 53 BAD REQUEST but that implies that there's something wrong with the request, which isn't exactly the case
2020-10-30 14:36:49	khuxkm	I think I'll do "40 Resource currently unavailable"
2020-10-30 14:36:50		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-30 14:36:55	khuxkm	and lobby the mailing list for a 45
2020-10-30 14:37:37	@tomasino	solderpunk just finished his move so i expect he'll be jumping back in and responding to all this stuff more shortly
2020-10-30 14:51:52	khuxkm	actually, what does spec say about just... returning an error code that isn't what most people expect
2020-10-30 14:52:05	khuxkm	could I just start returning 45 without it being in spec
2020-10-30 14:52:30	@tomasino	you could
2020-10-30 14:54:19	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 15:02:05	▬▬▶	newbie has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 15:04:29		zdragon has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 15:13:14	weeb	ive seen clients ask the user for a replacement cert when the server answers with 61
2020-10-30 15:13:21	weeb	might not be desired in ur case
2020-10-30 15:13:30		newbie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 15:20:48	@tomasino	ahh, good point
2020-10-30 15:29:32	ew0k	khuxkm: the client only has to care about the first digit in the error code. Everything else is optional
2020-10-30 15:30:22	ew0k	I would reply with a 40, I think. But a "45 Forbidden" would be fine by me
2020-10-30 15:45:04	ew0k	I've gotten a little stuck with my GUI browser. I can't help thinking that there must be a simpler way to build it.
2020-10-30 15:45:41	ew0k	My goal would be a browser that looks and feels like a simple web browser, and renders gmi pages in a pretty way
2020-10-30 15:46:06	ew0k	But I realize that building the GUI from scratch in tkinter is going to take *forever*
2020-10-30 15:49:01	felix	Didn't seem that way when I made Gophersnake, but then I stopped early on. No bookmarks, history or anything.
2020-10-30 15:51:51	felix	Maybe you can crib something from here? http://ctrl-c.club/~nttp/toys/gophersnake/
2020-10-30 15:56:36	ew0k	felix: Nice! I'll have a look at it :)
2020-10-30 16:07:02	aravk	jan6: just use asterisks, underscores, etc. - people will get your point
2020-10-30 16:07:58	ew0k	felix: gophersnake is beautiful!
2020-10-30 16:08:07	★	felix blushes
2020-10-30 16:08:10	felix	Thank you!
2020-10-30 16:08:12	aravk	in fact, you generally don't need to mark things specifically as bold / italic / underline - any indication of emphasis will get your point across
2020-10-30 16:22:15		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 16:24:35	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 16:59:07		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-30 17:02:46	jan6	khuxkm: you can always just serve a success page with "no permission to view" content, or such, which I guess is also bad practice (like the http 200 error pages)
2020-10-30 17:04:31	jan6	you don't need to mark things as links, or headers either, aravk, people will also get the point across ;P
2020-10-30 17:05:14	jan6	09:36 <ew0k> "multiline-but-singleline formatting addon idea" -- I may have been too tired (or not here) when you've talked about this. Can you explain it?
2020-10-30 17:06:33	jan6	just something like "if line starts with _ then concaternate it with the previous line and also make it underlined if possible", better yet if also parsing end of line for tht too
2020-10-30 17:07:34	jan6	and same for *, which differentiates from lists by not having a space before text, and maybe - for strikethrough, too
2020-10-30 17:07:37		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-30 17:07:41	jan6	or something along those lines, I imagine
2020-10-30 17:07:56	jan6	that'd change up all existing client logic tho, so ehhhh
2020-10-30 17:08:27	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 17:08:28	jan6	you'd basically need to keep a line in a buffer till you read the first two bytes of the next line
2020-10-30 17:08:53	jan6	and then see if you pring newline or not before that line
2020-10-30 17:08:58	ew0k	aravk: a sha1 hash is only 40 characters -- would probably be perfectly fine to have in the <META> field, and I'd say the risk of collisions is small enough that it's usable :)
2020-10-30 17:08:58	jan6	*print
2020-10-30 17:09:16	jan6	why not just cksum checksum at that point? ;P
2020-10-30 17:09:48	ew0k	jan6: that sounds like it would be really simple to parse, but less human-readable
2020-10-30 17:09:51	ew0k	cksum?
2020-10-30 17:09:53	jan6	or crc32 (which is pretty close to cksum, only barely different)
2020-10-30 17:10:07	jan6	hello world, this word is
2020-10-30 17:10:09	acdw	i don't see why a checksum is needed tbh
2020-10-30 17:10:09	ew0k	huh. I'd never tried that before
2020-10-30 17:10:11	jan6	*bold*
2020-10-30 17:10:14	jan6	for you to notice it
2020-10-30 17:10:24	jan6	not that bad to read, imho
2020-10-30 17:10:40	jan6	idk what's all this checksum is about, tbh
2020-10-30 17:10:52	acdw	the thing i like about gemini is it assumes a human reader on the other end, and a human reader is smart enough to know if they've lookd at something before or not
2020-10-30 17:10:57	acdw	or .. if they're not it's on them
2020-10-30 17:10:57	ew0k	the checksum is about caching :)
2020-10-30 17:11:02	ew0k	different discussion
2020-10-30 17:11:16	acdw	almost everything in geminispace is small enough that a cache isn't really needed tbh
2020-10-30 17:11:41	acdw	i'd think if anything, instead of a checksum it would just need a 'latest updated' thing
2020-10-30 17:11:54	acdw	that'd actually be more easy to implement imo and more informative
2020-10-30 17:12:05	acdw	like idc what the content *is* just wheter it's new or not
2020-10-30 17:14:08	jan6	crc32 is prefect for such basic checksum btw, it's used for stuff like checking for errors in transfer, and such non-important stuff already, part of the IP stack protocols I think
2020-10-30 17:14:55	jan6	my formatting idea wouldn't make the text too hard to read assuming you use it sparingly, imho
2020-10-30 17:15:16	jan6	just tried it out for a few sentences
2020-10-30 17:15:28	jan6	it just makes the words stand out, as they're on their own lines
2020-10-30 17:16:31	acdw	oh jan6: what's your formatting idea? I came in in the middle of that discussion
2020-10-30 17:16:39	khuxkm	according to the spec, the contents of <META> on a 4x response code should be shown to a human user
2020-10-30 17:16:47	jan6	lol just look a little back, acdw 
2020-10-30 17:16:51	khuxkm	so I think I'll do 40 RESOURCE UNAVAILABLE
2020-10-30 17:17:11	jan6	~10 min ago
2020-10-30 17:17:31	acdw	I wasn't here 10 min ago .. this is the first line i have: 12:08:28 PM - jan6: you'd basically need to keep a line in a buffer till you read the first two bytes of the next line
2020-10-30 17:17:31	khuxkm	maybe whenever we look at spec changes again I'm gonna suggest a 45 RESOURCE UNAVAILABLE code for when the server has access to a resource, but isn't willing to serve that resource at this time to any user
2020-10-30 17:17:54	acdw	prolly 41 khuxkm, or whatever the next one is
2020-10-30 17:18:11	acdw	45 might be the next one, in which case, sorry! 
2020-10-30 17:18:44	khuxkm	we had this convo already before you came in, no need for apologies
2020-10-30 17:18:50	jan6	oh huh
2020-10-30 17:19:12	khuxkm	basically 41 doesn't work as "The server is unavailable due to overload or maintenance. (cf HTTP 503)" doesn't apply
2020-10-30 17:19:18	jan6	19:05 <jan6> 09:36 <ew0k> "multiline-but-singleline formatting addon idea" -- I may have been too tired (or not here) when you've talked about this. Can you explain it?
2020-10-30 17:19:18	jan6	19:06 <jan6> just something like "if line starts with _ then concaternate it with the previous line and also make it underlined if possible", better yet if also parsing end of line for tht too
2020-10-30 17:19:18	jan6	19:07 <jan6> and same for *, which differentiates from lists by not having a space before text, and maybe - for strikethrough, too
2020-10-30 17:19:18	jan6	19:07 <-- awalvie (~awalvie@150.242.255.20) has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-30 17:19:18	jan6	19:07 <jan6> or something along those lines, I imagine
2020-10-30 17:19:18	jan6	19:07 <jan6> that'd change up all existing client logic tho, so ehhhh
2020-10-30 17:19:18	jan6	19:08 --> acdw [acdw] (Case D) (~Thunderbir@2600:8807:282:6c00:eab1:fcff:fedc:d728) has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 17:19:18	jan6	19:08 <jan6> you'd basically need to keep a line in a buffer till you read the first two bytes of the next line
2020-10-30 17:19:18	jan6	1
2020-10-30 17:19:22	jan6	sorry 4 spam
2020-10-30 17:19:33	khuxkm	the server is available, it just chooses not to serve that resource
2020-10-30 17:19:39	jan6	I think it's barely few enough lines to not warrant a pastebin yet ;P
2020-10-30 17:19:53	khuxkm	51 implies the resource isn't there, which it is, it's just not available
2020-10-30 17:20:00	jan6	also why not set history mode on this channel?
2020-10-30 17:20:14	acdw	jan6: thank you so much, i just realized i could've like,,,looked at tomasino's log lol
2020-10-30 17:20:20	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 17:20:27	jan6	I didn't know you could
2020-10-30 17:20:30	khuxkm	61 requires client certificate semantics that I'd rather not use, plus it raises the question of "do you need to use 60 first to get a client cert"
2020-10-30 17:20:41	acdw	it sounds .. sort of like man-style or groff-style formatting
2020-10-30 17:20:45	khuxkm	where is it logged?
2020-10-30 17:20:49	khuxkm	also tomasino: can we get +H please?
2020-10-30 17:20:58	khuxkm	the topic just says "logged in gemspace"
2020-10-30 17:20:59	jan6	just roff, not groff ;P
2020-10-30 17:21:25	jan6	maybe it's logged in gem.space? ;P
2020-10-30 17:21:29	acdw	hang on lemme find it
2020-10-30 17:21:47	acdw	jan6: ah, okay :P but you could serve text/roff ;)
2020-10-30 17:22:16	jan6	well...not really...nobody would implement it, lol
2020-10-30 17:22:29	acdw	gemini://makeworld.gq/irc/ <- khuxkm
2020-10-30 17:22:38	acdw	jan6: that's their problem ;)
2020-10-30 17:22:39	khuxkm	just serve text/markdown and get on with it
2020-10-30 17:22:43	jan6	and it's way annoying to deal with, as little as I've seen it
2020-10-30 17:22:45	khuxkm	>.<
2020-10-30 17:22:52	khuxkm	uh I didn't mean to do that but that's neat
2020-10-30 17:23:02	acdw	I mean, that could work too -- honestly I just don't worry about the formatting and use ascii to format
2020-10-30 17:23:12	khuxkm	is this invert colors?
2020-10-30 17:23:12	jan6	˙_˙
2020-10-30 17:23:23	acdw	b/c i figure, again, people are smart enough to figure out *this* means bold or _this_ means italic/underline and /this/ is italic
2020-10-30 17:23:30	acdw	khuxkm: nope
2020-10-30 17:23:34	acdw	not for me anyway
2020-10-30 17:23:37	khuxkm	what does it show up as for you?
2020-10-30 17:23:40	acdw	italic
2020-10-30 17:23:42	jan6	and this is not inverted
2020-10-30 17:23:44	khuxkm	oh
2020-10-30 17:23:51	khuxkm	TIL irssi shows italics as inverted colors
2020-10-30 17:23:53	acdw	i'm on thunderbird tho, so idk
2020-10-30 17:24:06	acdw	that's a terminal thing
2020-10-30 17:24:20	acdw	can you see italics elsewhere in your terminal?
2020-10-30 17:24:37	jan6	my last text should in theory be bold and italic and underlined, and last word inverted front and background color
2020-10-30 17:24:43	khuxkm	aaaaaaaa
2020-10-30 17:24:49	khuxkm	how would I check that?
2020-10-30 17:25:01	jan6	tho tmux seems to hate italics, sadly
2020-10-30 17:25:17	jan6	weechat itself also doesn't seem to like italics, tbh
2020-10-30 17:25:18	acdw	jan6: yeha so Thunderbird does not do inverted
2020-10-30 17:25:22	khuxkm	acdw: how do I check to see if my terminal likes italics?
2020-10-30 17:25:27	jan6	hmm
2020-10-30 17:25:32	jan6	hmm
2020-10-30 17:25:32	acdw	khuxkm: check the ansi escape
2020-10-30 17:25:35	acdw	hang on lemme find em
2020-10-30 17:25:38	jan6	hmmhmm
2020-10-30 17:25:51	jan6	is there colors? is there any difference between the hmm's?
2020-10-30 17:26:01	khuxkm	acdw: disregard I found it
2020-10-30 17:26:05	acdw	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#SGR_parameters <- this is what you want to see
2020-10-30 17:26:06	acdw	oh lol
2020-10-30 17:26:11	khuxkm	and yes it is my terminal that shows the italics as invert
2020-10-30 17:26:12	khuxkm	nice
2020-10-30 17:26:15	jan6	that page is in my bookmarks, lol
2020-10-30 17:26:21	acdw	jan6: both are blue, the second hmm is italic
2020-10-30 17:26:24	acdw	smart jan6
2020-10-30 17:26:31	jan6	mine does not do such sucky stuff, lol
2020-10-30 17:26:42	jan6	is italics
2020-10-30 17:26:44	acdw	mine too now
2020-10-30 17:26:50	jan6	^ is not italics on this term tho
2020-10-30 17:26:56	jan6	bc tmux sux
2020-10-30 17:27:12	khuxkm	aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
2020-10-30 17:27:20	khuxkm	aaaaaaaaaaaa
2020-10-30 17:27:25	khuxkm	there we go that's what I was trying to do
2020-10-30 17:27:31	jan6	that message *IS* italics, right, acdw, the "is italics" is italics?
2020-10-30 17:27:44	acdw	haha
2020-10-30 17:27:49	khuxkm	anyways, what's this channel about? gemini? let's talk about gemini
2020-10-30 17:27:51	acdw	jan6: ye
2020-10-30 17:27:56	acdw	geminiiiiii
2020-10-30 17:28:00	acdw	i have a new capsule
2020-10-30 17:28:04	acdw	gemini://gem.acdw.net
2020-10-30 17:28:07	acdw	all old stuff rn
2020-10-30 17:28:12	acdw	using phoebe wiki
2020-10-30 17:28:16	acdw	not sure if i'm going to stay on that
2020-10-30 17:28:19	acdw	but ... ywa
2020-10-30 17:28:21	acdw	discuss
2020-10-30 17:28:23	acdw	:P
2020-10-30 17:29:16	jan6	I should get on it trying to make a gemini client in haxe, AGAIN
2020-10-30 17:29:17	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 17:29:25	jan6	forgot where the last attempt went
2020-10-30 17:29:37	jan6	but I do remember pain, as usual
2020-10-30 17:30:44	khuxkm	I need to figure out how to get an SSL cert for a localhost so I can test my gemini server
2020-10-30 17:30:55	jan6	self sign, duh
2020-10-30 17:30:57	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 17:31:08	jan6	self signing is supposed to be fine with gemini
2020-10-30 17:31:51	jan6	also can always make your own CA and add that to your local system CA list, so it's auto-trusted as a valid cert
2020-10-30 17:32:05	jan6	also fun fact
2020-10-30 17:32:12	jan6	you can make a dns record point to 127.0.0.1
2020-10-30 17:32:56	jan6	so you can make localhost.khuxkm.page point to your localhost IP, and have a letsencrypt cert or such ;P
2020-10-30 17:33:09	jan6	khuxkm: ^ 3 ways, pick your poison
2020-10-30 17:35:44	khuxkm	I don't own a domain :P
2020-10-30 17:36:20	khuxkm	how does one self-sign a cert?
2020-10-30 17:36:24	★	khuxkm google
2020-10-30 17:37:48	jan6	you can always get a free .ml or .tk domain, or get a wer.ee or 1337331.xyz subdomain from me ;P
2020-10-30 17:37:59	jan6	self-plug *airhorn*
2020-10-30 17:38:35	jan6	self signing is not that trivial so yeah best search'em
2020-10-30 17:38:51	khuxkm	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10175812/how-to-create-a-self-signed-certificate-with-openssl in one command :P
2020-10-30 17:39:34	boringcactus	some servers will make you a self signed cert automatically
2020-10-30 17:39:51	boringcactus	like gmnisrv
2020-10-30 17:42:15	acdw	khuxkm: there's actually a good command on the phoebe readme, hold on
2020-10-30 17:42:56	khuxkm	boringcactus: well I'm writing my own server so that won't actually help me any :)
2020-10-30 17:42:56	acdw	openssl req -new -x509 -newkey ec \
2020-10-30 17:42:56	acdw	-pkeyopt ec_paramgen_curve:prime256v1 \
2020-10-30 17:42:56	acdw	-days 1825 -nodes -out cert.pem -keyout key.pem
2020-10-30 17:43:06	boringcactus	lmfao
2020-10-30 17:43:10	acdw	hit enter a lot -- at CN enter localhost
2020-10-30 17:43:22	acdw	then in your browser, go to gemini://localhost
2020-10-30 17:43:36	boringcactus	which language?
2020-10-30 17:43:37	khuxkm	did I mention I'm writing it on ~team
2020-10-30 17:43:49	khuxkm	I can't write code locally on the school chromebook
2020-10-30 17:43:56	acdw	chromebook--
2020-10-30 17:44:03	acdw	but that's cool you can get into ~team
2020-10-30 17:44:12	acdw	I found out my work blocks *all* ssh connections apparently
2020-10-30 17:44:22	acdw	i changed my port and everything, stil nothing
2020-10-30 17:44:34	boringcactus	galaxy brain: run ssh on port 80
2020-10-30 17:46:13	khuxkm	mega galaxy brain: webssh on the mc.bhh.sh box
2020-10-30 17:47:50	boringcactus	but yeah if you're using Rust then https://crates.io/crates/rcgen will make your life easier
2020-10-30 17:48:21	boringcactus	https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/gemifedi/tree/main/src/main.rs#L411 usage example
2020-10-30 17:49:30	acdw	boringcactus: lolol
2020-10-30 17:49:35	acdw	i do eventually want to run http
2020-10-30 17:50:04	acdw	oh rcgen looks dope
2020-10-30 17:50:25	acdw	khuxkm: that's minecraft? 
2020-10-30 17:50:27	★	acdw confused
2020-10-30 17:50:36	acdw	i thought i *knew* computers
2020-10-30 17:53:13	boringcactus	https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gmnisrv/tree/master/src/tls.c#L18 here's self signed cert generation in C
2020-10-30 17:54:40	khuxkm	acdw: no, it's the hardcore Minecraft server
2020-10-30 17:55:02	acdw	is that not minecraft?
2020-10-30 17:55:11	khuxkm	but I also use it as my personal box (at least until I can afford one of my own) ever since b3n discontinued LXD containers on ~team
2020-10-30 17:55:39	acdw	what's lxd containers?
2020-10-30 17:56:10	acdw	also how do i join the hardcore minecraft server? also how is it also a computer?
2020-10-30 17:56:16	★	acdw more confused, possibly
2020-10-30 17:57:48	khuxkm	okay so basically I used to have an LXD container on ~.team (basically a computer within a computer)
2020-10-30 17:58:37	khuxkm	separately, I also got the idea to start a modded Minecraft server, so ben gave me another server (in reality, a VM on the same host that runs tilde.team) to run the modded server on
2020-10-30 17:58:53	khuxkm	eventually I gave up on the modded server since nobody was playing on it, so I started a hardcore server in its place
2020-10-30 17:59:14	acdw	oh neat
2020-10-30 17:59:20	khuxkm	then, b3n stopped handing out LXD containers, and he asked me what I wanted to do with mine
2020-10-30 17:59:21	acdw	and that's ... got ssh?
2020-10-30 17:59:31	khuxkm	yeah it's a server like tilde.team
2020-10-30 17:59:45	acdw	oh wild 
2020-10-30 17:59:57	jan6	lol duh
2020-10-30 17:59:57	khuxkm	but he wanted to get rid of the containers so I moved all of the stuff from my container to the server that runs the hardcore stuff
2020-10-30 18:00:01	acdw	so you can sign in w/ minecraft and ssh like hat?
2020-10-30 18:00:05	khuxkm	yeah
2020-10-30 18:00:07	jan6	why did he want to get rid of containers, khuxkm
2020-10-30 18:00:08	jan6	?
2020-10-30 18:00:17	khuxkm	idk ask him
2020-10-30 18:00:29	khuxkm	anyways this is the gemini channel and we're getting off topic again
2020-10-30 18:00:32	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 18:00:36	jan6	why not offtopic ;P
2020-10-30 18:00:51	acdw	GEMINI
2020-10-30 18:01:03	acdw	let's have micro-protocols named after all the constellations
2020-10-30 18:01:14	acdw	what servers do yall us
2020-10-30 18:01:16	acdw	ues
2020-10-30 18:01:18	acdw	use
2020-10-30 18:01:57	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 18:02:17	jan6	hmm, maybe I should see how hard it is to make a posix sh based gemini server sometime
2020-10-30 18:02:18	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 18:02:24	jan6	like I have done gemini-get
2020-10-30 18:03:07	jan6	openssl and socat can be the ssl layer, I mean mainly the rest... and of course that means it'd be really hard to make it multithreaded, so not gonna be that, lol
2020-10-30 18:03:57	jan6	with enough determination, you CAN make multithreaded shell scripts that can check each thread and possibly exchange data with fifo or something
2020-10-30 18:04:54	khuxkm	when I first heard of gemini I kinda wanted to make a competing protocol and call it Challenger (for reasons that should be obvious), but I decided against actually moving forward with it (for obvious reasons, including that the name would have been in poor taste)
2020-10-30 18:07:35	acdw	jan6: i'd love to try that
2020-10-30 18:08:01	acdw	maybe ... a makefile? that's multithreaded
2020-10-30 18:08:17	acdw	khuxkm: what would the challenger protocl be for?
2020-10-30 18:09:00	khuxkm	well the idea was to basically make a competing protocol to Gemini that would be extensible by nature
2020-10-30 18:09:17	khuxkm	not the web, per se, but somewhere between gemini and the web
2020-10-30 18:10:10	jan6	if you'd done that I might've had to make Apollo, and require encoding data in soundwaves
2020-10-30 18:10:11	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 18:11:02	acdw	lol khuxkm
2020-10-30 18:11:13	acdw	omg somewhere b/w gemini and the we
2020-10-30 18:11:24	acdw	somewhere b/w challenger and the web
2020-10-30 18:27:19		nixo has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 18:31:08	@tomasino	khuxkm: there's a joke i wanna make in extremely poor taste. just letting you know i'm biting my tongue
2020-10-30 18:31:36	acdw	uh do it
2020-10-30 18:31:42	khuxkm	I mean the idea of naming the protocol Challenger was also in extremely poor taste
2020-10-30 18:31:43	★	tomasino buttons lips
2020-10-30 18:31:45	acdw	now you have to , it's the law
2020-10-30 18:31:51	@tomasino	yeah my joke was challenger related
2020-10-30 18:31:52	khuxkm	just get on with it
2020-10-30 18:31:54	acdw	you can't just *say* you have a joke
2020-10-30 18:31:56	acdw	then not make it
2020-10-30 18:32:01	acdw	something crash and burn?
2020-10-30 18:32:05	acdw	break up on re-entry?
2020-10-30 18:32:09	acdw	everyone dies?
2020-10-30 18:32:11	@tomasino	something like that
2020-10-30 18:32:14	acdw	schoolteachers?
2020-10-30 18:32:20	acdw	bodies falling to earth?
2020-10-30 18:32:31	khuxkm	what was this channel about?
2020-10-30 18:32:32	acdw	the tragedy of it all live on national tv?
2020-10-30 18:32:32	khuxkm	gemini?
2020-10-30 18:32:35	acdw	GEMINI
2020-10-30 18:32:37	acdw	RIGHT
2020-10-30 18:32:38	khuxkm	let's go back to talking about gemini
2020-10-30 18:32:49	@tomasino	gemini is fun
2020-10-30 18:32:51	@tomasino	i like it
2020-10-30 18:32:51	acdw	so i still need to know .... what is the best gemini server
2020-10-30 18:33:00	@tomasino	well it was tomasino.org
2020-10-30 18:33:12	acdw	s/$/ software
2020-10-30 18:33:20	acdw	dam tildebot isn't here
2020-10-30 18:33:22	admicos	consider this: gemini server as a linux kernel module
2020-10-30 18:33:24	acdw	best server *software*
2020-10-30 18:33:27	acdw	lol yes admicos
2020-10-30 18:33:41	acdw	i want to upload and edit content *without* ssh
2020-10-30 18:33:46	acdw	b/c wokr is dumb
2020-10-30 18:33:57	acdw	and i want to serve on the gemini protocol
2020-10-30 18:34:02	acdw	2 things that i need
2020-10-30 18:34:11	acdw	phoebe does it, but i don't like how it organizes things
2020-10-30 18:34:49	@tomasino	there, tomasino.org is back up
2020-10-30 18:35:30	acdw	nice
2020-10-30 18:35:37	@tomasino	and acdw, my tomasino.org response answers both questions
2020-10-30 18:35:37	acdw	honestly maybe i should do that
2020-10-30 18:35:38	@tomasino	:D
2020-10-30 18:35:44	acdw	how would you do paths?
2020-10-30 18:35:46	acdw	lol
2020-10-30 18:35:56	@tomasino	no clue
2020-10-30 18:35:56	@tomasino	haha
2020-10-30 18:36:02	acdw	bah
2020-10-30 18:36:07	@tomasino	gotta read the request and then use that to shoot the response over
2020-10-30 18:36:12	acdw	somebody had a secret bash server somewhere
2020-10-30 18:36:33	acdw	how do i read the request D:
2020-10-30 18:36:36	@tomasino	jan6 probably. he's sneaky
2020-10-30 18:36:40	acdw	mebbe
2020-10-30 18:36:43	acdw	prolly in my work notes
2020-10-30 18:37:39	acdw	i just found out Thunderbird searches chats too :O
2020-10-30 18:38:00	@tomasino	haha
2020-10-30 18:38:16	acdw	shit i think it was in irc
2020-10-30 18:38:35	acdw	tomasino: is your whole ass log up anywhere?
2020-10-30 18:38:52	jan6	lol
2020-10-30 18:39:05	jan6	do it like procfs, a virtual filesystem, while at it
2020-10-30 18:39:26	acdw	dam i'm gonna have to write this thing
2020-10-30 18:40:00	acdw	you think a while read line; do would work?
2020-10-30 18:41:01	@tomasino	yep
2020-10-30 18:41:21	@tomasino	gemini://tilde.team/~tomasino/irc/log.txt
2020-10-30 18:41:38	acdw	ty
2020-10-30 18:42:24	@tomasino	i don't know how to wrap the in/out communication with TLS properly. If that part weren't an issue i'd have a much easier time with it all
2020-10-30 18:42:30	khuxkm	what port is Gemini supposed to run on
2020-10-30 18:42:34	@tomasino	1965
2020-10-30 18:42:37	acdw	lol searching for 'server' is gonna be fun
2020-10-30 18:42:44	khuxkm	thanks tomasino 
2020-10-30 18:42:46	@tomasino	NP
2020-10-30 18:42:48	khuxkm	I knew it was 19-something
2020-10-30 18:42:49	acdw	me too tomasino, me too
2020-10-30 18:44:00	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+H 50:24m] by tomasino
2020-10-30 18:44:09	acdw	wuh woah, it's frozen
2020-10-30 18:44:10	@tomasino	er... 24 minutes, that's not right
2020-10-30 18:44:30	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+H 50:1d] by tomasino
2020-10-30 18:44:37	@tomasino	that'd better
2020-10-30 18:44:41	khuxkm	24 minutes lol
2020-10-30 18:44:44	@tomasino	which client did you do the request with, acdw
2020-10-30 18:44:53	acdw	elpher
2020-10-30 18:45:08	@tomasino	it comes up nicely in lagrange and av98
2020-10-30 18:45:21	@tomasino	you might be able to use one of those gem-curl things on it and save it local
2020-10-30 18:45:21	acdw	the request was fine, emacs was having a hard time with 'b?a?sh.*server' and highlighting the ,,, 4M file
2020-10-30 18:45:23	@tomasino	4.5MB
2020-10-30 18:45:35	acdw	yea, it downloaded no problem, it wsa the searching of it ;P
2020-10-30 18:45:36	@tomasino	this is why vim is the answer, acdw
2020-10-30 18:45:40	@tomasino	:P
2020-10-30 18:45:41	acdw	lol
2020-10-30 18:45:44	acdw	now i'm in emacs tho
2020-10-30 18:45:46	acdw	like, i'm IN there
2020-10-30 18:45:49	khuxkm	whatever gemini server tilde.team uses is a piece of garbage
2020-10-30 18:45:55	@tomasino	oh?
2020-10-30 18:45:58	@tomasino	gemserv, i think
2020-10-30 18:46:07	khuxkm	I literally just want to make a request via s_client
2020-10-30 18:46:19	khuxkm	but I have approximate 2 nanoseconds to type a URL in
2020-10-30 18:46:23	acdw	FOUND IT
2020-10-30 18:46:24	acdw	i think
2020-10-30 18:47:48	@tomasino	be faster, khuxkm 
2020-10-30 18:50:28	acdw	khuxkm: try printf '%s\r\n' gemini://tilde.team/ | openssl s_client ....
2020-10-30 18:54:06	khuxkm	I'm gonna make a Gemini requests adapter instead
2020-10-30 18:54:14	khuxkm	because I like cursed things
2020-10-30 18:54:27	acdw	tomasino: I *think* it's in here git://thebackupbox.net/shell-daemons
2020-10-30 18:54:35	acdw	aight
2020-10-30 18:54:38	acdw	khuxkm: sounds good
2020-10-30 18:57:09	@tomasino	i think YOURE a shell daemon
2020-10-30 18:58:38		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 18:59:01	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 19:02:01	acdw	craw
2020-10-30 19:02:08	acdw	that's what the shell daemon say
2020-10-30 19:06:11		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 19:10:58	jan6	lmao
2020-10-30 19:11:09	jan6	imagine not piping but manually typing
2020-10-30 19:11:26	jan6	also, just gemini-get_openssl.sh ;P
2020-10-30 19:12:09	jan6	s/-/_/
2020-10-30 19:13:13	ℹ 	xfnw is now known as 230AAHL24
2020-10-30 19:13:28	ℹ 	230AAHL24 is now known as xfnw
2020-10-30 19:19:02		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-30 19:21:14	▬▬▶	kernel_pancake has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 19:31:11		gbmor has quit (quit: reboop)
2020-10-30 19:39:07	ew0k	I can’t for the life of me find either the capsule or the website for the titan protocol :/
2020-10-30 19:39:25	ew0k	Read it the other day. Lost it again
2020-10-30 19:56:20	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 19:58:29	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 20:04:44	▬▬▶	mink has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 20:09:41	oms	https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan ew0k
2020-10-30 20:09:50	oms	lmgtfy (let me gus this for you)
2020-10-30 20:10:28	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 20:13:06	oms	random gripe: I've spent too long trying to get any gemini client to compile on debian 8
2020-10-30 20:13:35	oms	gemini tossing out retrocomputing support with SSL is one thing, but even 2015 is too retro
2020-10-30 20:23:50		mink has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-30 20:25:48		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-30 20:25:51	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 20:25:56	ew0k	oms: Thank you! I’ve tried both gusing and duckduckgoing to no avail :D
2020-10-30 20:31:41	@tomasino	omg, can someone make a gemini lmgtfy?
2020-10-30 20:31:46	@tomasino	via gus? 
2020-10-30 20:31:48	@tomasino	that would be stellar
2020-10-30 20:37:50		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-30 20:39:23	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 20:39:53	xfnw	let my gus that for you
2020-10-30 20:42:01		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-30 20:42:30	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 20:46:10		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-30 20:46:14	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 20:55:40	ew0k	I'm tired, and pondering.
2020-10-30 20:56:57	ew0k	I want to show off geminispace to non-tech friends. And I want people to be able to *participate* without much technical know how. So far I believe that means some sort of POST method needs to be available
2020-10-30 20:57:50	ew0k	but that's a slippery slope. What are people going to post? A blog entry? Well then it would be nice if they had a form to fill out, that presents itself the same in every gemini browser. Maybe we need forms?
2020-10-30 20:58:03	khuxkm	you can serve text/html on gemini
2020-10-30 20:58:23	ew0k	true, but that feels a little... odd
2020-10-30 20:58:29	khuxkm	nothing's really *stopping* you from serving PWAs on gemini, they're just a PITA
2020-10-30 20:58:34	khuxkm	and that's by design
2020-10-30 20:58:47	khuxkm	but what do you need a POST method for?
2020-10-30 20:59:31	ew0k	One thing I like and expect from a gemini browser is that it doesn't do shit under the hood that I don't know about, like making a bunch of extra requests for resources like css, images and javascript
2020-10-30 21:00:05	ew0k	khuxkm: blogs, wikis, messaging, collaborative writing platforms...
2020-10-30 21:00:58	@tomasino	didn't someone make a gemini gemlog via web post service already?
2020-10-30 21:01:27	ew0k	tomasino: I'd like to know how, in that case :) I've only seen the titan solution
2020-10-30 21:01:40	ew0k	which is a decent compromise, I might add. 
2020-10-30 21:02:07	@tomasino	it was a specific host someone set up for non-tech peoples
2020-10-30 21:02:17	@tomasino	i'm not sure where it is, though. just remembering
2020-10-30 21:02:53	ew0k	actually, I've seen people say they have a website for posting, and gemini capsule for reading. Which sounds a little off to me
2020-10-30 21:03:53	ew0k	Status code 10 can be used for short posts
2020-10-30 21:03:59	ew0k	like tweets
2020-10-30 21:04:37	@tomasino	you could hijack postfix and output it to a shell script that reads the contents of an email and uses the from user & subject line to write a new post
2020-10-30 21:04:51	@tomasino	i have that working on cosmic for the anonhmmst user
2020-10-30 21:04:57	ew0k	yes, but email is not usually encrypted
2020-10-30 21:05:19	@tomasino	you could do pgp signed messages to it and extend the process a bit
2020-10-30 21:05:28	ew0k	true
2020-10-30 21:05:48	ew0k	We're entering the tech-savvy-people territory though :)
2020-10-30 21:06:13	ew0k	honestly a really good solution could just be sftp
2020-10-30 21:06:23	@tomasino	sftp works
2020-10-30 21:06:31	aravk	I've done a lot of stuff with PGP - if anybody has questions feel free to ask
2020-10-30 21:06:39	@tomasino	i think email, though unencrypted, could be really nice for a non-tech posting
2020-10-30 21:07:02	aravk	sftp does work, yes
2020-10-30 21:07:13	@tomasino	you'd have to do some work to ensure it's a plain text email and clean up stuf and filter out junk, etc
2020-10-30 21:07:13	aravk	I think e-mail would be a cool way to do this though
2020-10-30 21:07:24	khuxkm	isn't there some sort of wiki thing
2020-10-30 21:07:33	aravk	subject line could be like [POST <category>] <title>
2020-10-30 21:07:36	khuxkm	like, someone made it in the current framework of gemini
2020-10-30 21:07:38	ew0k	but for a random user without technical know-how to even install a gemini browser is a big step. Getting some file space somewhere and installing/learning sftp is a BIG step further
2020-10-30 21:08:02	@tomasino	/etc/aliases -> anonhmmst: "|/home/anonhmmst/parse_email.py" 
2020-10-30 21:08:06	aravk	gemini browsers are getting easier and easier to use
2020-10-30 21:08:11	ew0k	khuxkm: yeah, but they added a protocol scheme called titan for posting
2020-10-30 21:08:22	aravk	and there are also some HTTP->Gemini web services
2020-10-30 21:09:00	aravk	ew0k: I personally actually like the fact that this stuff is difficult
2020-10-30 21:09:18	aravk	it helps filter out people who weren't going to do work anyways
2020-10-30 21:09:40	khuxkm	I think the biggest thing is that the URL is required to be less than 1024 characters
2020-10-30 21:09:43	ew0k	khuxkm: basically gemini://foo.bar/baz GETs a file, and titan://foo.bar/baz;token=secret;....something I can't remember... POSTs to it
2020-10-30 21:10:08	aravk	how much of a limitation is that?
2020-10-30 21:11:26	@tomasino	the argument against a URL to reverse-post is that it just shifts the problem to creating a webpage
2020-10-30 21:11:38	@tomasino	this email thing is worth exploring
2020-10-30 21:11:48	ew0k	aravk: it does have its charm that it's limited to a small subset of people. But there's definitely a lot of people out there with interesting experiences to share, but lacking the know-how needed to engage in geminispace
2020-10-30 21:12:19	aravk	that's an unfortunate truth ew0k
2020-10-30 21:12:23	ew0k	aravk: the longer the URL, the less space left for the query string -- which also needs to be URL encoded
2020-10-30 21:12:40	ew0k	but there's defnitely space for a few hundred characters
2020-10-30 21:13:01	★	ew0k is overusing the word 'definitely' today...
2020-10-30 21:13:11	khuxkm	omg I just had an idea
2020-10-30 21:13:20	khuxkm	it's a *terrible* idea and it's cursed as all hell let out
2020-10-30 21:13:26	ew0k	TELL US!
2020-10-30 21:13:35	khuxkm	so you GET gemini://example.com/start_post_body
2020-10-30 21:13:42	khuxkm	and you get an ID like j2134fa
2020-10-30 21:13:52	ew0k	khuxkm: I had this idea earlier today too!
2020-10-30 21:13:59	ew0k	and then send the message in chunks
2020-10-30 21:14:07	khuxkm	then you gemini://example.com/post?j2134faThis is an example post body
2020-10-30 21:14:17	khuxkm	and then when you're done, gemini://example.com/finish_post
2020-10-30 21:14:34	ew0k	great minds think alike!
2020-10-30 21:14:38	khuxkm	it's possible in the current Gemini framework, but it's cursed and I personally wouldn't touch it with a 79 and a half foot pole
2020-10-30 21:14:39	aravk	tomasino: the issue is that any system you make for this (e-mail based posting) would need a generic way to receive e-mails and would require the user to set itup
2020-10-30 21:14:55	ew0k	khuxkm: you wanna hear an even worse extension of that idea?
2020-10-30 21:15:00	aravk	would you touch it with an 80 foot pole?
2020-10-30 21:15:24	ew0k	binary files can be sent that way too. Just base64 encode them
2020-10-30 21:15:34	@tomasino	if you set up an alias that runs to a system script then any user anywhere could post. totally open. If you want to keep it limited you could require them to use a "password" as a subject line.
2020-10-30 21:15:40	khuxkm	oh my fucking god N O
2020-10-30 21:15:48	aravk	no tomasino no passwd in subject
2020-10-30 21:16:03	@tomasino	:D it's an easy way to auth!
2020-10-30 21:16:04	aravk	subject is generally not encrypted
2020-10-30 21:16:13	@tomasino	this is not a secure solution i'm describing
2020-10-30 21:16:14	aravk	better would be to sign or encrypt the message itself
2020-10-30 21:16:20	aravk	oh okay then sure
2020-10-30 21:16:26	@tomasino	it's a doable one
2020-10-30 21:16:35	@tomasino	and usable by non-techy people
2020-10-30 21:16:42	aravk	sure
2020-10-30 21:16:43	@tomasino	if you want you could just leave it open
2020-10-30 21:16:45	ew0k	Sooo... I have another idea now...
2020-10-30 21:16:53	aravk	but you will need them to post in plain text
2020-10-30 21:17:04	@tomasino	all these ideas of pulling posts from the web should pull from gopher instead. just sayin'
2020-10-30 21:17:06	khuxkm	make a public blog that publishes based on email address
2020-10-30 21:17:23	@tomasino	exactly khuxkm 
2020-10-30 21:17:26	khuxkm	read my blog at gemini://example.com/tildeteam/khuxkm/
2020-10-30 21:17:28	@tomasino	just gotta filter for bad formatting
2020-10-30 21:17:47	@tomasino	ooh, smart way of generating the URL too
2020-10-30 21:18:04	aravk	security is doable too
2020-10-30 21:18:05	@tomasino	khuxkm: you have the know-how and half the code to make this go already
2020-10-30 21:18:08	ew0k	say you get gemini://example.com/inbox, and the response is a port number
2020-10-30 21:18:13	khuxkm	please don't
2020-10-30 21:18:15	ew0k	and you just netcat to it
2020-10-30 21:18:21	khuxkm	also I'm pretty sure anonhmmst is broken somehow someway
2020-10-30 21:18:35	@tomasino	anonhmmst just didn't like when you faked email headers in posts
2020-10-30 21:18:38	aravk	ew0k: would run out of port numbers that way eventually
2020-10-30 21:18:43	@tomasino	it worked pretty well otherwise, and gemini is even easier!
2020-10-30 21:18:44	ew0k	aravk: true
2020-10-30 21:19:04	@tomasino	also i made it so only other tildes can email cosmic
2020-10-30 21:19:17	aravk	why don't we make e-mail more anonymous and then make a web based on e-mail
2020-10-30 21:19:24	aravk	GET request? e-mail
2020-10-30 21:19:27	aravk	POST? e-mail
2020-10-30 21:19:32	aravk	everything? e-mail
2020-10-30 21:19:46	aravk	(/s)
2020-10-30 21:20:44	@tomasino	a gpg encrypted email system could do all this and be truly secure, but with the gatekeeping of gpg on top. I do think you could make a reasonable functioning one with bullshit security and actually get some users thanks to gemini's low public profile
2020-10-30 21:21:42	aravk	I would rather have a gatekeeped system
2020-10-30 21:22:00	aravk	it also helps to cut down on the number of non-users using the system
2020-10-30 21:22:43	aravk	although yes sure some definitely wanted users would be cut out I think it's better to have some but not all good stuff rather than be flooded by the bad
2020-10-30 21:23:06	ew0k	bedtime for me. More on this some other day :D I'm sure I'll have more stupid ideas
2020-10-30 21:23:22	khuxkm	anyways, if someone would be willing to give me hosting space I'd be willing to try the blog-by-email thing
2020-10-30 21:23:30	khuxkm	but honestly I'd rather not
2020-10-30 21:23:35	khuxkm	I'm off to dinner now
2020-10-30 21:23:46	khuxkm	I'll be back later with more weird and dumb ideas
2020-10-30 21:24:13	khuxkm	also I already have my server project I need to get off the ground
2020-10-30 21:28:27	jcowan	Tne main thing I miss in text/gemini is *emphasis*, but hey, I'll write asterisks and perhaps someone some day will turn them into italics.
2020-10-30 21:30:03	@tomasino	not bold?
2020-10-30 21:33:39	kiedtl	or underline/strikethrough? :)
2020-10-30 21:36:01	@tomasino	thunderbird does a very nice thing that's been a plain text styling pattern for a while where the characters continue to be shown but the styling is also applied. /italic/ *bold* _underline_
2020-10-30 21:36:20	@tomasino	so if the formatting applied incorrectly, you still see the character that created it and don't get confused
2020-10-30 21:37:45	@tomasino	mail.display_struct = true handles that internally
2020-10-30 21:42:02	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/hxe.png - example
2020-10-30 21:43:22	@tomasino	https://ttm.sh/hxi.png - dark theme example
2020-10-30 21:50:19		nixo has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-30 21:50:23	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 22:15:42		krjst has quit (quit: bye)
2020-10-30 22:16:17	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 22:19:34		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-10-30 22:21:29	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 22:24:31		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-30 22:36:36	jcowan	tomasino: In Markdown, which seems to be the most common type, they mean italics, and **bold** is bold.
2020-10-30 22:36:50	jcowan	IMO bold is a page layout feature and much less important than italics.
2020-10-30 22:36:52	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 22:39:57	@tomasino	markdown is alone in their choice of markup though
2020-10-30 22:40:00		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-30 22:40:00	@tomasino	that's why i get confused
2020-10-30 22:40:09	@tomasino	**bold** isn't a thing elsewhere. it's just *bold*
2020-10-30 22:40:09	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 22:53:11	aravk	or you know just use any of them as they all clearly indicate some emphasis
2020-10-30 22:59:52	▬▬▶	mink has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 23:00:06	@tomasino	all of them
2020-10-30 23:06:21	acdw	hey yall
2020-10-30 23:06:24	acdw	still talking about gemini
2020-10-30 23:06:26	acdw	?
2020-10-30 23:08:37		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-30 23:13:29	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 23:19:55	▬▬▶	Elon_Satoshi has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 23:21:20	▬▬▶	kiwi-n99 has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 23:23:36		kiwi-n99 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-30 23:24:00	Elon_Satoshi	Hello! TheLounge seems neet
2020-10-30 23:24:03	Elon_Satoshi	neat*
2020-10-30 23:24:39	acdw	I use it all the time at work
2020-10-30 23:26:44	boringcactus	yeah shout out to thelounge
2020-10-30 23:30:57	Elon_Satoshi	Which gemini clients are most up to date?
2020-10-30 23:31:20	Elon_Satoshi	Alternatively, what are the neatest terminal based ones?
2020-10-30 23:31:28	acdw	i'm gonna say bollux, but i wrote it :P
2020-10-30 23:31:46	acdw	realistically, bombadillo or makeworld's one, amfora
2020-10-30 23:32:05	acdw	unless you like comand-line style interfaces, that'd be av98 or .. diohsc maybe
2020-10-30 23:35:34	Elon_Satoshi	Agregore sounds pretty cool
2020-10-30 23:35:47	acdw	i haven't heard of that one
2020-10-30 23:36:10	Elon_Satoshi	https://github.com/AgregoreWeb/agregore-browser
2020-10-30 23:36:29	Elon_Satoshi	It's a distributed web browser, so it supports ipfs and the dat protocol too
2020-10-30 23:36:35	▬▬▶	d3fragg3d has joined #gemini
2020-10-30 23:37:20	acdw	oh neat -- and it's pretty slick.  But does it do gemini?
2020-10-30 23:37:35	d3fragg3d	so, I am not having that much luck finding good content on gemini yet as of just browsing content from the search engine. are there any good sites I can use as news / content hubs?
2020-10-30 23:37:44	Elon_Satoshi	Yes, it's listed in gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/
2020-10-30 23:38:19	acdw	huh
2020-10-30 23:38:31	acdw	d3fragg3d: gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom
2020-10-30 23:38:47	acdw	gemini://rawtext.club/~sloum/spacewalk.gmi
2020-10-30 23:39:12	acdw	well neat Elon_Satoshi!
2020-10-30 23:40:04	d3fragg3d	thanks I'll have a read
2020-10-30 23:43:57	khuxkm	i'm back
2020-10-30 23:44:01	zephryn	o/
2020-10-30 23:44:27	khuxkm	I just read scrollback and I kinda like ew0k's idea of port numbers
2020-10-30 23:44:51	khuxkm	you don't exactly need the port to stay open per se, you just need the port to work for the time being
2020-10-30 23:45:19	khuxkm	that being said, as with other POST suggestions, it is still 100% cursed and a complete perversion of everything the protocol stands for
2020-10-30 23:51:28	acdw	hi khuxkm
2020-10-30 23:51:36	acdw	wait what is the port #
2020-10-30 23:51:47	acdw	i suppose i shoul check logs
2020-10-30 23:52:00	acdw	do you know the time it was at? so i can look at it
2020-10-30 23:54:42	makeworld	Elon_Satoshi: Mine is the best ofc ;)
2020-10-30 23:55:02	acdw	bah nvm
2020-10-30 23:55:06	acdw	email i lik ethat
2020-10-31 00:00:41	Elon_Satoshi	I'll try amfora out too! Feature rich? That's got my attention
2020-10-31 00:00:53	acdw	makeworld worked really hard on amfora
2020-10-31 00:00:57	acdw	it's pretty dope
2020-10-31 00:01:05	acdw	i actually need to install it on my little lappy
2020-10-31 00:01:10	zephryn	makeworld makes a lot of great gem stuff
2020-10-31 00:02:52	acdw	makeworld: where's your main repo again?
2020-10-31 00:03:04	acdw	also nice job packaging amfora for void :)
2020-10-31 00:03:20	Elon_Satoshi	Aww, no cross platform package like flatpak to keep it up to date without using arch?
2020-10-31 00:03:35	Elon_Satoshi	I installed av98 with pip
2020-10-31 00:03:51	acdw	haha
2020-10-31 00:04:12	Elon_Satoshi	Well, I guess I'll move the binary to /usr/local/bin
2020-10-31 00:04:19	Elon_Satoshi	That seems simple enough.
2020-10-31 00:04:39	acdw	i started installing software to ~/.local/bin (PREFIX=~/.local) and it changed my life
2020-10-31 00:04:43	makeworld	Aww thanks guys
2020-10-31 00:04:52	makeworld	Repo is https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora
2020-10-31 00:05:12	acdw	i keep meaning to do a base install only and install everything else in ~
2020-10-31 00:05:13	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 00:05:14	makeworld	acdw: I didn't pkg for Void lol, nice to hear that it is though!
2020-10-31 00:05:17	acdw	with git repos and stuff
2020-10-31 00:05:20	acdw	makeworld: lol
2020-10-31 00:05:25	acdw	and thanks for the link!
2020-10-31 00:05:27	makeworld	I've been putting some stuff in ~/bin myself
2020-10-31 00:05:30	makeworld	Welcome!
2020-10-31 00:05:43	acdw	I like ~/bin for scripts I write myself, so they're easy to get to
2020-10-31 00:06:00	acdw	and ~/.local/bin for makefile'd stuff
2020-10-31 00:06:09	makeworld	Yeah. I put all my personally compiled software there. ~/.local/bin has stuff that some script installed there, pretty much all just from pip --user
2020-10-31 00:06:13	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-10-31 00:06:16	acdw	yes!
2020-10-31 00:06:20	acdw	oh
2020-10-31 00:06:21	acdw	lol
2020-10-31 00:08:25	makeworld	I originally logged on to say that I'm disapointed hashes weren't built into Gemini
2020-10-31 00:08:46	makeworld	I don't really support the MIME type hack methods being proposed on the ML, but I think the overall idea is correct and good
2020-10-31 00:13:20		d3fragg3d has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-31 00:14:18		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-31 00:14:37	kiedtl	"hashes"? I guess you mean anchors? or did I miss something?
2020-10-31 00:15:07		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-31 00:16:54		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-31 00:18:16	boringcactus	MD5 etc hashes
2020-10-31 00:18:39	boringcactus	to solve the problem of "did i get all the content the server wanted to send or not"
2020-10-31 00:19:49	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 00:20:20	makeworld	I mean cryptographic hashes, like SHA-256
2020-10-31 00:20:28	makeworld	Not really to  solve that boringcactus
2020-10-31 00:20:32	makeworld	I mean to verify your download
2020-10-31 00:20:36	makeworld	Or to replicate content
2020-10-31 00:21:12	boringcactus	i mean that's a subset of verifying
2020-10-31 00:21:16	boringcactus	er.
2020-10-31 00:21:21	boringcactus	 that as in content length
2020-10-31 00:22:03	makeworld	I guess
2020-10-31 00:23:37	kiedtl	Oh I see
2020-10-31 00:33:17	khuxkm	>I don't really support the MIME type hack methods being proposed on the ML, but I think the overall idea is correct and good
2020-10-31 00:33:45	khuxkm	well with the spec freeze in effect (at least, from what I read the spec freeze is in effect), we kinda have to resort to hacks until we get something more
2020-10-31 00:39:03	makeworld	Yes, but I'd rather Gemini not have the feature than become a hacky protocol defined by users and not by the spec
2020-10-31 00:43:41	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 00:51:25		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 01:06:00	khuxkm	i mean, all protocols are in practice defined by their users
2020-10-31 01:06:21	khuxkm	if everybody starts doing something, it'll become common enough practice that it becomes /de facto/ spec
2020-10-31 01:06:32	khuxkm	even if it's not /de jure/
2020-10-31 01:06:56	khuxkm	and on the other end, if something is written in the spec and enough people ignore it, is it even a part of the spec?
2020-10-31 01:07:17	khuxkm	err, a part of the protocol, rather?
2020-10-31 01:10:06	login	ie6 had a frozen implementation of the spec
2020-10-31 01:10:16	login	there were hacks for getting pngs to display with transparency etc.
2020-10-31 01:43:47	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 01:50:58	makeworld	khuxkm: It's nicer to have everyone just stick to the spec, especially for Gemini
2020-10-31 01:51:13	makeworld	People doing their own thing is how the Web became bloated and complicated
2020-10-31 01:52:35	makeworld	De facto standards is very against the Gemini ethos imo
2020-10-31 01:55:10	acdw	i agree
2020-10-31 01:55:22	acdw	i also think the ethos of gemini is radical simplicity.
2020-10-31 01:55:43	acdw	like it's a document exchnage format. stuff like astrobotany is cool but it's pushing that pretty far imo
2020-10-31 01:56:01	acdw	anything past that is i think better suited to theweb
2020-10-31 01:56:30	acdw	i tihnk it's much more viable to have a "web but the good parts" if you want stuff like applications or streams or whatev
2020-10-31 01:56:49	zephryn	that's true, yeah
2020-10-31 01:57:29	jcowan	If I ever get any cycles, I really will work on Dioscuri. Because it's a separate and entirely optional protocol, it doesn't complicate Gemini; because it's almost Gemini, it's easy to adapt existing code
2020-10-31 01:57:38	acdw	i mean, that's just me ... i just know that i don't use any of the really intense stuff on the web
2020-10-31 01:57:59	acdw	jcowan: have a link for dioscuri? I remenber it on the ML a while bacck..
2020-10-31 01:58:15	jcowan	Not yet, that would be the first step.  Tl;dr version:
2020-10-31 01:59:40	jcowan	the request line passes a whitespace-separated MIME type followed by the actual data; the response is 100% like Gemini except for a new reponse type 70, whose META is a URL where the result is.
2020-10-31 02:00:07		kernel_pancake has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-10-31 02:00:13	jcowan	so the request is <url><whitespace><mime-type><CR><LF>.
2020-10-31 02:02:38	makeworld	acdw: Definitely agree
2020-10-31 02:03:43	makeworld	For server side applications on the web I find htmx to be a nice respectful way to do things
2020-10-31 02:03:46	makeworld	With HTTP/2
2020-10-31 02:04:00	makeworld	https://htmx.org/
2020-10-31 02:10:49	acdw	jcowan: so dioscuri is a push protocol? neat
2020-10-31 02:10:59	acdw	i've heard of htmx
2020-10-31 02:11:29	acdw	oh that's kind of neat -- why http/2 only?
2020-10-31 02:12:09	khuxkm	I held my tongue earlier because I didn't know exactly how to phrase it in a good way but I think I see where the split is
2020-10-31 02:12:25	khuxkm	I'm of the opinion that /de facto/ standards happen whether you intend for them to or not
2020-10-31 02:12:42	khuxkm	or even whether they're compatible with a project's ethos or not
2020-10-31 02:13:00	khuxkm	people are going to find a way to do the thing they want to do
2020-10-31 02:13:27	khuxkm	even if involves, say, creating an entire other protocol just to do it
2020-10-31 02:13:52	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 02:14:06	acdw	yes ndeed----thats where gemini comes from even
2020-10-31 02:14:34	acdw	my thing is --- i'm fine with seeing what people can do, as long as corporations don't come in and ;muck it up
2020-10-31 02:14:55	acdw	so as long as we don't get too close the web i think we're ulitmately oka
2020-10-31 02:23:20	zephryn	i think de-facto standards can be cool until they become the web where you have a few browsers that can even inplement them
2020-10-31 02:24:24	acdw	BUT! did the web ever have a lot of browsers, really?
2020-10-31 02:24:32	acdw	like i think they had maybe 5,6?
2020-10-31 02:24:40	acdw	at one time?
2020-10-31 02:24:47	acdw	an gemini now has .. at least 20 
2020-10-31 02:25:20	acdw	so ... that's actually a good thing --- there's pressure *against* too much messing around, since who knows what clients will pick it up
2020-10-31 02:25:58	acdw	so the de facto stays fairly stable
2020-10-31 02:26:02	zephryn	exactly, yeah
2020-10-31 02:26:16	zephryn	things are kept in order from having more options
2020-10-31 02:26:45		Elon_Satoshi has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-10-31 02:27:08	khuxkm	I still think de facto standards can happen in Gemini, just in more... limited cases
2020-10-31 02:27:15	acdw	right right!
2020-10-31 02:28:00	khuxkm	for instance if I have a crawler that implements certain semantics only when it recieves, say, a 45 response, then anybody who wants my crawler to do those semantics will need to return a 45 response where they want it to happen
2020-10-31 02:28:06	khuxkm	even though there's no 45 response in spec
2020-10-31 02:28:14	acdw	right, but that's just the one crawler
2020-10-31 02:28:23	acdw	it'd have to be a pretty cool thing for people to care
2020-10-31 02:28:30	khuxkm	exactly
2020-10-31 02:28:40	khuxkm	if the crawler's popular enough to get people to care, they'll need to do it or tough luck
2020-10-31 02:29:10	khuxkm	basically any Gemini /de facto/ standard will have to be something that can interoperate with spec
2020-10-31 02:29:17	zephryn	and i suppose you're right, there never were many browsers at once time to choose from (outside of cli programs, at least)
2020-10-31 02:29:26	khuxkm	for instance, spec doesn't actually say you can't return, say, a 99 code
2020-10-31 02:29:45	khuxkm	it doesn't say what a 99 code means, sure, but there's nothing against doing that
2020-10-31 02:30:01	khuxkm	however, most clients would probably break/get confused on a 99 code so you wouldn't do that
2020-10-31 02:30:04	boringcactus	yeah, if somebody did "the second line of the response is actually `Content-Length: 694201337`" then that'd break everything and we can't just do that
2020-10-31 02:30:33	boringcactus	which is one of the reasons the mailing list has seen some suggestion of using MIME type parameters
2020-10-31 02:30:47	khuxkm	but something like `20 text/plain;charset=utf-8;size=100231235` doesn't violate the spec
2020-10-31 02:30:47	boringcactus	in principle, it won't break anything
2020-10-31 02:30:50	khuxkm	that's a mime type
2020-10-31 02:30:53	khuxkm	yeah
2020-10-31 02:31:18	boringcactus	it breaks the idea that the mime type does mime type things, but it doesn't break existing clients
2020-10-31 02:31:29	khuxkm	but, for instance, say I want to implement the semantics of "I have access to this resource but I won't give it to you, even if you cert up"
2020-10-31 02:32:19	khuxkm	I could technically do `45 Resource unavailable` but that ends up in a gray area of "what does the spec say about doing that", so I end up going for `40 Resource unavailable` instead since 40 is just a generic, temporary error
2020-10-31 02:32:39	acdw	you *could* make the first line a content-length, but most clients would just ... display it
2020-10-31 02:32:50	khuxkm	and the contents of <META> are to be shown as an error message on a 40 response
2020-10-31 02:32:56	acdw	and you *could* include a size in the mimetype but most clients will ignore it
2020-10-31 02:37:38	boringcactus	the distinction there is important though
2020-10-31 02:37:44	boringcactus	displaying the wrong thing is bad
2020-10-31 02:37:53	boringcactus	ignoring extra stuff is fien
2020-10-31 02:38:00	boringcactus	*fine
2020-10-31 02:38:11	acdw	i mean, it's bad inasmuch as people will be annoyed and not visit your capsule any more
2020-10-31 02:50:09	khuxkm	hmm
2020-10-31 02:50:22	khuxkm	AV-98 errors when I try to use my self-signed cert >:(
2020-10-31 02:50:34	khuxkm	ERROR: 'IPv4Address' object has no attribute 'count'
2020-10-31 02:51:41	acdw	uh idk what that means
2020-10-31 02:51:46	acdw	that's a weird pythong error
2020-10-31 02:52:52	khuxkm	hmmst
2020-10-31 02:53:09	acdw	*nod*
2020-10-31 02:53:15	acdw	why isn't there a nod emoji
2020-10-31 02:53:16	acdw	hmmm
2020-10-31 02:53:45	khuxkm	so basically it's trying to take a count of how many wildcards are in a SAN entry
2020-10-31 02:53:57	acdw	oh hm
2020-10-31 02:54:02	acdw	how many do you have?
2020-10-31 02:54:04	khuxkm	...except my SAN for my self-signed cert includes an IP entry
2020-10-31 02:54:10	khuxkm	no wildcards
2020-10-31 02:54:33	acdw	hmmm
2020-10-31 02:54:36	khuxkm	but it's trying to do .count("*") on an IPv4Address object
2020-10-31 02:54:44	khuxkm	which, needless to say, is something it can't do
2020-10-31 02:54:45	acdw	OH
2020-10-31 02:54:55	acdw	maybe use 'localhost' insetad?
2020-10-31 02:55:37	khuxkm	...except, actually, this is apparently an issue in Python's ssl lib?
2020-10-31 02:55:55	acdw	oh no
2020-10-31 02:56:03	acdw	that's deep magic :p
2020-10-31 02:57:35	khuxkm	alright, apparently I've managed to now sidestep that issue into another issue entirely
2020-10-31 02:57:49	acdw	oh no
2020-10-31 02:57:53	acdw	what's up now?
2020-10-31 02:58:17		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 02:58:39	khuxkm	apparently my header breaks spec
2020-10-31 02:59:34	khuxkm	...and now that I've added code to debug why my header apparently breaks spec the first bug is back
2020-10-31 03:00:13	acdw	uh oh! what's the header?
2020-10-31 03:00:50	khuxkm	`20 text/markdown\r\n`
2020-10-31 03:00:57	khuxkm	or at least that's what it *should* send
2020-10-31 03:03:44	khuxkm	...apparently it's sending... nothing?
2020-10-31 03:06:04	khuxkm	there we go
2020-10-31 03:06:10	khuxkm	forgot to flush the write buffer
2020-10-31 03:06:48	acdw	oh ah ! good
2020-10-31 03:06:51	acdw	glad you got it
2020-10-31 03:12:17	makeworld	> oh that's kind of neat -- why http/2 only?
2020-10-31 03:12:43	makeworld	acdw: I didn't mean only. I just learned about HTTP/2 a bit ago and think it's cool
2020-10-31 03:13:02	acdw	oh okay cool :)
2020-10-31 03:13:06	zephryn	what do you think of http/3?
2020-10-31 03:13:19	acdw	i was looking at httpx and like, Why would this only work on http/2?
2020-10-31 03:13:28	acdw	hell why not http/4 or /5 :P
2020-10-31 03:14:15	zephryn	introducing: http/6
2020-10-31 03:14:52	khuxkm	http/10
2020-10-31 03:14:59	khuxkm	because fuck https 3-9
2020-10-31 03:16:58	acdw	yes!
2020-10-31 03:17:03	acdw	like 6G internet
2020-10-31 03:17:22	zephryn	the version numbers never end, do they...
2020-10-31 03:17:56	acdw	nope :P
2020-10-31 03:18:01	acdw	wish they would, tbh
2020-10-31 03:20:26	jcowan	acdw: It's a POST protocol.   Client sends an entity-body to the server and gets either an entity body or an URL that points to it in return.
2020-10-31 03:20:55	acdw	jcowan: dioscuri?
2020-10-31 03:21:07	acdw	yes
2020-10-31 03:21:10	acdw	sorry been a minute
2020-10-31 03:21:19	acdw	i kinda like how simple thta is
2020-10-31 03:22:01	khuxkm	anyone on tilde.team with a browser that isn't AV-98 want to help me with a test
2020-10-31 03:22:11	makeworld	zephryn: HTTP/3 seems like a large change for a tiny occasional speed increase. But I want to see proper testing in simulated bad networks, like with x% package loss
2020-10-31 03:25:03		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-31 03:26:10	acdw	khu
2020-10-31 03:26:15	acdw	khuxkm: give me a second and sure
2020-10-31 03:26:42	acdw	you need me to sign on to tilde.team?
2020-10-31 03:26:46	acdw	or use it from my computer?
2020-10-31 03:30:13	khuxkm	acdw: sign into tilde.team and try to access gemini://7f000001.nip.io:65534
2020-10-31 03:30:16	▬▬▶	Seirdy has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 03:30:18	khuxkm	thanks in advance
2020-10-31 03:30:30	khuxkm	you should get back a markdown document just containing `# sup`
2020-10-31 03:30:41	Seirdy	anybody try gemini over i2p?
2020-10-31 03:31:23	Seirdy	given that gemini pages tend to be small and don't demand a high-speed connection, it seems like i2p would be a good fit.
2020-10-31 03:31:41	acdw	idk what i2p is
2020-10-31 03:32:24	jcowan	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2P
2020-10-31 03:32:31	Seirdy	acdw: it's like tor but every user is a relay, and there are no clearnet exit nodes. it supports any protocol, not just HTTP; p2p/torrenting is a common use-case
2020-10-31 03:32:32	jcowan	it's a peer-to-peer protocol
2020-10-31 03:33:10	acdw	khuxkm: i get a sup
2020-10-31 03:33:15	acdw	in bollux
2020-10-31 03:33:28	acdw	oh that sounds wild Seirdy
2020-10-31 03:33:39	Seirdy	gemini eepsites (i2p equiv of onions) sound like a really good idea
2020-10-31 03:33:42	acdw	sounds really cool, i bet you could do i2p yeah
2020-10-31 03:33:51	khuxkm	acdw: nice
2020-10-31 03:34:04	acdw	what's that host khuxkm?
2020-10-31 03:36:42	makeworld	I2P is cool
2020-10-31 03:36:48	makeworld	Never tried with Gemini though
2020-10-31 03:36:49	khuxkm	*.nip.io basically is A record to any IP
2020-10-31 03:36:56	khuxkm	https://nip.io
2020-10-31 03:37:02	acdw	what
2020-10-31 03:37:04	acdw	that's cool
2020-10-31 03:37:11	acdw	why not just 127.0.0.1 or whatev?
2020-10-31 03:37:38	khuxkm	because I felt like using a domain
2020-10-31 03:37:57	khuxkm	also because apparently Python 3.8's ssl lib can't handle IP entries in the SAN
2020-10-31 03:38:05	acdw	fair enough :)
2020-10-31 03:38:08	acdw	oh right
2020-10-31 03:38:21	khuxkm	also this is BS, I can't even sign up for an account on bugs.python.org to file the bug
2020-10-31 03:38:38	acdw	oh shit huh
2020-10-31 03:38:42	acdw	whaaaaaa
2020-10-31 03:38:46	acdw	python--
2020-10-31 03:38:48	Seirdy	mailing lists
2020-10-31 03:38:50	acdw	:P
2020-10-31 03:38:59	Seirdy	imagine having to sign up for an account to file a bug
2020-10-31 03:39:05		gbmor has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-31 03:39:08	zephryn	github moment
2020-10-31 03:39:23	acdw	haha
2020-10-31 03:39:49	khuxkm	I tried to sign in with my GitHub but it went "i couldn't get your email from your profile" even though I don't have my profile set to hide my email
2020-10-31 03:40:01	acdw	:(
2020-10-31 03:40:03	acdw	ooof
2020-10-31 03:40:06	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 03:41:03		gbmor has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-10-31 03:41:34		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-10-31 03:45:58	▬▬▶	gbmor has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 03:46:26	khuxkm	actually rereading the AV98 source it's cheating and I need to bug solderpunk about the hacky shit it's doing
2020-10-31 03:52:10	praetorian	Is gemini://gus.guru/ the best place to browse gemini hosts? Seems like the newest sites are from the end of September.
2020-10-31 03:57:36	epoch	> it supports any protocol, not just HTTP;
2020-10-31 03:57:57	epoch	tor does any tcp protocol
2020-10-31 04:10:14	khuxkm	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/AV-98/issues/28 anyways I filed a bug report with AV-98
2020-10-31 04:20:29		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-31 04:35:12	makeworld	praetorian: Pretty much yeah. GUS is currently updating, it hasn't in a while 
2020-10-31 04:35:40	makeworld	Nat should make a cron job for it tbh
2020-10-31 04:35:51	makeworld	K gn y'all 
2020-10-31 04:36:01	praetorian	Ah, I see. Thanks
2020-10-31 04:36:32	khuxkm	I'm wondering how I should handle CGI in Big Tiddy Gemini Server
2020-10-31 04:36:41	khuxkm	should I just let anything be +x and run it based on shebang?
2020-10-31 04:36:49	khuxkm	or is that bad practice
2020-10-31 05:32:54		praetorian has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-31 05:40:13	ew0k	khuxkm: did you see the julia-server posted about on the website? Does it implement the chunk-wise send we discussed last night or am I confused??
2020-10-31 05:42:49	ew0k	s/website/mailing list/
2020-10-31 05:44:40	khuxkm	kinda?
2020-10-31 05:44:52	khuxkm	it uses client certificates instead of a by-post-body ID
2020-10-31 06:00:32	ew0k	Still, though :) kinnda funny
2020-10-31 06:47:04	khuxkm	https://github.com/MineRobber9000/btgs so I got the first draft of the code down
2020-10-31 06:47:42	khuxkm	none of it's really documented all that well *but* I'm gonna document it later, hopefully after I've gotten some sleep (whenever I'll be tired enough to sleep that is)
2020-10-31 06:59:49	Dr-WaSabi	no kidding on the sleep part
2020-10-31 07:11:22	★	Dr-WaSabi checks out khuxkm's btgs repo
2020-10-31 07:39:52	khuxkm	i just had a bad idea: a text adventure game implemented entirely within Gemini using `10` responses
2020-10-31 07:43:11	Dr-WaSabi	:D
2020-10-31 07:43:27	Dr-WaSabi	that might be really cool
2020-10-31 07:44:33	★	Dr-WaSabi ponders this some more
2020-10-31 07:47:12	Dr-WaSabi	khuxkm: a Gemini server doesn't know much about the differnt connections it's serving to.. would that be correct?
2020-10-31 07:49:41	khuxkm	not really
2020-10-31 07:49:54	khuxkm	though you could use client certificate fingerprinting to store a sort of session key
2020-10-31 07:50:29	khuxkm	that would, of course, require me to implement client certificate fingerprinting in Big Tiddy Gemini Server, which I think will come with the CGI support
2020-10-31 07:52:56	Dr-WaSabi	I was just wondering if you wrote a program that dynamicly generated the text/gemini files that the differnt connected glients would be given.  if you did have some idea of sessions, then said program might be able to create gemini files that people could work together
2020-10-31 07:53:32	Dr-WaSabi	glients?  did I just invent a new word?
2020-10-31 07:54:55	★	Dr-WaSabi needs more coffee
2020-10-31 09:37:23	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 11:13:31	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 11:17:05	nixo	is there any standard for gemini long polling?
2020-10-31 11:17:37	nixo	Is it fine to keep a client waiting until new content appears?
2020-10-31 11:44:49	kiedtl	glients. love that name.
2020-10-31 11:45:10	Dr-WaSabi	:D
2020-10-31 11:45:29	@tomasino	oooh, coffee is a good idea
2020-10-31 11:45:46	Dr-WaSabi	👍👍
2020-10-31 11:47:42	Dr-WaSabi	so if a Gemini server could track clients, would that be something against the basic ideales of protocal?
2020-10-31 11:49:30	kiedtl	pretty much, i think
2020-10-31 11:49:49	Dr-WaSabi	kind of what I was thinking as well
2020-10-31 11:51:07	Dr-WaSabi	trying to think up a way to run a gemini text adventure game
2020-10-31 11:57:21	@tomasino	with or without state management?
2020-10-31 11:57:28	@tomasino	a choose your own adventure is easier
2020-10-31 11:57:35	@tomasino	go to page 7 is always go to page 7
2020-10-31 11:57:55	@tomasino	you could always do the 'if you collected the blue key, click here"
2020-10-31 11:58:01	★	Dr-WaSabi facepalms
2020-10-31 11:58:06	Dr-WaSabi	what a simple idea
2020-10-31 11:58:22	@tomasino	:D
2020-10-31 13:38:17	▬▬▶	kernel_pancake has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 13:56:26	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 13:56:34		lovetocode999 has left #gemini
2020-10-31 14:02:34	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 14:05:48	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 14:11:46	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 14:16:02		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 14:18:17	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 14:30:01		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 14:30:20	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 14:30:47		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 14:32:49	nixo	Dr-WaSabi: for gemini://nixo.xyz I'm using Client certificates for that. User choose to be recognized or not just by changing/disabling user certificate for the website
2020-10-31 14:39:36	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 14:58:48	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 14:59:05		lovetocode999 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-31 15:04:55	Dr-WaSabi	interesting... so it might work...
2020-10-31 15:08:02	acdw	Dr-WaSabi: I have a choose your own adventure game up
2020-10-31 15:08:28	acdw	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/acdw/vault-guard/
2020-10-31 15:08:37	acdw	with ascii art
2020-10-31 15:08:54	acdw	also there is a text adventure in gopher, so i'm sure gemini would be possible
2020-10-31 15:10:57	makeworld	Yeah you can just have static pages and  no state, so different pages just link to each other 
2020-10-31 15:11:05	makeworld	But you could do state with client certz
2020-10-31 15:11:13	acdw	dope certx
2020-10-31 15:11:15	acdw	certz
2020-10-31 15:11:20	makeworld	Certzzzz
2020-10-31 15:11:26	acdw	aw my coffee is cold :(
2020-10-31 15:11:31	alex11	rip
2020-10-31 15:12:49	acdw	in PIECES
2020-10-31 15:15:50	Dr-WaSabi	nixo does have the idea of using client certs, which would allow for state and session tracking.  just the client decides
2020-10-31 15:15:57	Dr-WaSabi	which would be really cool
2020-10-31 15:19:19	nixo	Dr-WaSabi: do you already have something in mind? Like a general idea on the story
2020-10-31 15:19:53	nixo	I might help
2020-10-31 15:20:11	Dr-WaSabi	no, not really, maybe zork like... but with a group of friends
2020-10-31 15:27:15	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 15:44:11		lovetocode999 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-31 16:15:14		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 16:17:41	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 16:27:41	kevinsan	acdw: your adventure is ace! good writing style, i honestly enjoyed it, short as it was.
2020-10-31 16:28:02	acdw	kevinsan: thanks!!!
2020-10-31 16:28:08	acdw	I was pretty proud of it
2020-10-31 16:28:19	acdw	i should try another at some point
2020-10-31 16:28:21	acdw	maybe in december
2020-10-31 16:29:59	kevinsan	you could have locations as 'goals', which would allow you more free reign in your narrative
2020-10-31 16:30:42	kevinsan	(e.g. less need to for consequences, and all the combinatorial working out that it entails)
2020-10-31 16:30:53	acdw	oh .. wait explain more, this sounds interesting
2020-10-31 16:31:39	kevinsan	well, simply finding a location (or object in the location) would be one of the objectives. 
2020-10-31 16:32:03	kevinsan	you collect things on your quest, on your journey to winning or losing.
2020-10-31 16:32:27	kevinsan	so it's not entirely win or lose, but a measure of progress through your map.
2020-10-31 16:33:24	acdw	oh neat
2020-10-31 16:33:36	acdw	that might take server-side logic tho eh? not just flat pages
2020-10-31 16:34:10	kevinsan	i don't see why, since it's just the right sequence of locations that allows you to reach a 'find'
2020-10-31 16:39:10	kevinsan	and 'checkpoints' could be reached where a location has one entry and one exit - only the next chapter of the story perhaps.
2020-10-31 16:39:22	acdw	oh okay... i'll have to think about it
2020-10-31 16:40:23	felix	The structure of CYOA games has been well studied.
2020-10-31 16:40:37	acdw	oh rly? have a link?
2020-10-31 16:40:42	felix	One moment.
2020-10-31 16:40:55	@tomasino	oooh
2020-10-31 16:40:59	@tomasino	cyoa science!
2020-10-31 16:41:09	@tomasino	i miss my radio show. :'(
2020-10-31 16:42:10	felix	http://maga-dogg.livejournal.com/tag/cyoa
2020-10-31 16:42:15	felix	Aw.
2020-10-31 16:42:51	acdw	ty felix!
2020-10-31 16:43:03	acdw	aw tomasino: I thought you had tilderadio?
2020-10-31 16:43:30	@tomasino	i do a trivia show on there now, and do sci-fi radio twice a week and ten forward on mondays, but my old show was called Choose Your Own Adventure
2020-10-31 16:43:35	@tomasino	it was awesome
2020-10-31 16:43:52	@tomasino	gopher://gopher.black/1/cyoa
2020-10-31 16:44:13	acdw	oh dang
2020-10-31 16:44:15	acdw	that does sound cool
2020-10-31 16:44:48	@tomasino	but netflix ruined it
2020-10-31 16:44:51	acdw	aw :(
2020-10-31 16:44:55	acdw	why
2020-10-31 16:45:02	@tomasino	they aired that episode of black mirror, Bandersnatch
2020-10-31 16:45:18	@tomasino	they didn't get permission from ChooseCo to use Choose Your Own Adventure
2020-10-31 16:45:20	acdw	OH
2020-10-31 16:45:26	@tomasino	so ChooseCo sued them
2020-10-31 16:45:28	acdw	so you knew it was illegal to use
2020-10-31 16:45:42	acdw	just do what Ryan North did --- "Choosable-Path Adventure"
2020-10-31 16:45:43	@tomasino	oh yeah, i def did, but chooseco didn't care about little shits like me
2020-10-31 16:45:55	acdw	oh did you get a takedown?!
2020-10-31 16:46:10	@tomasino	but once they were suing Netflix they had to show they defend their copyright, so they sent a very nice takedown letter my way
2020-10-31 16:46:19	@tomasino	they were super apologetic
2020-10-31 16:46:26	acdw	dang
2020-10-31 16:46:28	felix	They did care about a few poor kids who had games on Itch.
2020-10-31 16:46:33	acdw	at least they were apologetic?!
2020-10-31 16:47:12	@tomasino	my stuff didn't generate revenue, so its like just a fan thing in their heads
2020-10-31 16:47:14	@tomasino	they like it
2020-10-31 16:47:33	@tomasino	but once you're going after netflix for 25 million... gotta do what you gotta do
2020-10-31 16:47:38	felix	But they "have to defend their trademark". Sure.
2020-10-31 16:47:45	felix	That's a choice.
2020-10-31 16:47:55	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 16:48:04	@tomasino	no, it's part of a civil suit that comes up in trademark disputes a lot
2020-10-31 16:48:15	@tomasino	i learned about it in grad school in my course on trademark and copyright law and media
2020-10-31 16:48:19	acdw	mm
2020-10-31 16:48:24	acdw	yeah it's legit
2020-10-31 16:48:37	@tomasino	chooseco is in the right here. it's their property and i was dancing on it
2020-10-31 16:48:39	acdw	not that i add any ethos to tomasino's already valid ethos
2020-10-31 16:49:12	@tomasino	and i could justify restarting a similar show under a different name, but i was also reading their books mostly. The knock-off ones aren't as fun
2020-10-31 16:49:18	acdw	ah
2020-10-31 16:49:20	felix	They wouldn't have a "property" if enthusiasts hadn't kept the genre alive. For free.
2020-10-31 16:49:25	@tomasino	and free interactive fiction isn't great for short radio shows either
2020-10-31 16:49:37	acdw	well,,, that's the market felix. it's bigger than allof us
2020-10-31 16:49:49	felix	It's also *made by us*.
2020-10-31 16:49:55	felix	Supposedly *for* us.
2020-10-31 16:50:17	@tomasino	if you want to jump into the genre it's wide open as long as you don't use that exact phrase "Choose Your Own Adventure"
2020-10-31 16:50:41	felix	Yes, indeed. And every day we have to dance around yet more phrasings.
2020-10-31 16:50:59	acdw	felix: it wasn't made by me.  and there's not a lot i can do to change it.
2020-10-31 16:51:08	acdw	like, no one to vote for questions the IP system
2020-10-31 16:51:08	acdw	so
2020-10-31 16:51:09	@tomasino	copyright lasts far too long and should be "fixed"
2020-10-31 16:51:10	@tomasino	indeed
2020-10-31 16:51:12	acdw	like, what do i od
2020-10-31 16:51:22	acdw	i could *run*, but I don't have the time and I wouldn't be good at it
2020-10-31 16:51:39	acdw	I could just pirate stuff or ignroe the law, but then I'd go to jail or be whacked with a huge fine
2020-10-31 16:51:42	acdw	like,,,, i can't pay that
2020-10-31 16:51:49	acdw	so it is what it is
2020-10-31 16:51:56	@tomasino	eh, just wait for capitalism to eat itself
2020-10-31 16:52:04	acdw	I whinge about it and I'll agree with people who also hate it,,,,, but 
2020-10-31 16:52:10	acdw	that's all i ca ndo , realistically
2020-10-31 16:52:21	acdw	i'm so small, the others are soooo big, RIAA e.g.
2020-10-31 16:52:26	acdw	tomasino: yep lol
2020-10-31 16:52:33	@tomasino	and donate to EFF
2020-10-31 16:53:39	acdw	& that ype
2020-10-31 16:55:01	@tomasino	i hunger
2020-10-31 16:55:07	acdw	eat! eat!
2020-10-31 16:55:08	boringcactus	more like crapitalism amirite
2020-10-31 16:55:09	★	tomasino goes in search of food in the wild
2020-10-31 16:55:13	acdw	ur too thin!
2020-10-31 16:55:14	boringcactus	-carl marks
2020-10-31 16:55:18	acdw	boringcactus: lol yes
2020-10-31 16:55:20	acdw	lolol
2020-10-31 16:55:29	acdw	tht is so funny
2020-10-31 16:55:34	acdw	i'mma toot that
2020-10-31 16:55:50	acdw	want me to mention you?
2020-10-31 16:56:46	kiedtl	i guess not
2020-10-31 16:56:53	jan6	this is SUCH an active channel
2020-10-31 16:56:54	jan6	lol
2020-10-31 16:57:14	acdw	jan6: ye?
2020-10-31 16:57:15	acdw	no?
2020-10-31 16:57:15	acdw	idk
2020-10-31 16:57:19	kiedtl	Not as active, ever since our Dear Little Friend was so unfortunately banned
2020-10-31 16:57:33	acdw	wait who was on #gemini?
2020-10-31 16:57:55	kiedtl	Wasn't jayden here briefly?
2020-10-31 16:58:18	acdw	idk-- i figured that's who you were talking about tho :)
2020-10-31 16:58:35	kiedtl	Oh F. I'm confusing this channel with another one that jayden was banned in, nvm lol
2020-10-31 16:58:41	acdw	lol
2020-10-31 16:58:42	acdw	nw
2020-10-31 16:58:54	boringcactus	ehh you dont gotta mention me
2020-10-31 16:59:20	acdw	coo :)
2020-10-31 16:59:31	kiedtl	,qadd boringcactus=<boringcactus> more like crapitalism amirite <boringcactus> -carl marks
2020-10-31 16:59:31	tildebot	[Quotes] Quote added
2020-10-31 16:59:59	acdw	oh thanks kiedtl
2020-10-31 17:00:15	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 17:00:18	kiedtl	there's also the !toot command in #bots and #team (not sure if its anywhere else)
2020-10-31 17:00:42	kiedtl	it toots to the tildeverse mastodon account
2020-10-31 17:00:57	acdw	oh right!
2020-10-31 17:01:01	acdw	well i already tooted it meself
2020-10-31 17:01:02	acdw	dang
2020-10-31 17:01:08	acdw	!toot toot
2020-10-31 17:01:11	acdw	not here
2020-10-31 17:01:11	kiedtl	lol it doesn't matter
2020-10-31 17:01:13	acdw	hehe
2020-10-31 17:01:19	acdw	nothing does amirite
2020-10-31 17:01:34	kiedtl	wait, gemini doesn't matter?!
2020-10-31 17:02:19	acdw	i find myself drifting more and more to nihilism the older i get --- nothing has intrinsic value or mattter; only what we give it
2020-10-31 17:02:26	acdw	so like,,, it matters if *you* think it matters
2020-10-31 17:02:28	acdw	and I like that
2020-10-31 17:03:01		lovetocode999 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-31 17:03:12	kiedtl	hmm
2020-10-31 17:03:39	jan6	"existance is futile" is the jan6 catchphrase
2020-10-31 17:03:44	jan6	that, and "all hail jan6"
2020-10-31 17:03:47	felix	And that's precisely why we have to value what we have.
2020-10-31 17:04:01	felix	Because if we don't, nothing else will.
2020-10-31 17:04:15	acdw	ye
2020-10-31 17:04:21	jan6	existence is futile, but non-existance is even more pointless ;P
2020-10-31 17:04:25	acdw	hjs
2020-10-31 17:04:26	acdw	ja
2020-10-31 17:04:26	acdw	ha
2020-10-31 17:05:47		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-10-31 18:00:15	ericonr	jan6: that's a pretty good phrase, actually
2020-10-31 18:03:27	acdw	,grab jan6
2020-10-31 18:03:27	tildebot	[Quotes] Quote added
2020-10-31 18:10:04	ew0k	I heard a buddhist say that ”there is meaning *to* life; it’s just a bunch of chemical processes. But you can find a meaning *in* life.”
2020-10-31 18:10:19	ew0k	*no meaning to life
2020-10-31 18:10:32	acdw	oh i like that a lot
2020-10-31 18:10:54	felix	:)
2020-10-31 18:22:57	kiedtl	opo
2020-10-31 18:22:59	kiedtl	pp;s
2020-10-31 18:23:03	kiedtl	oops
2020-10-31 18:23:17	acdw	opo iondeedd
2020-10-31 18:24:14	kiedtl	i switched to a different kbd layout
2020-10-31 18:24:58	kiedtl	that message took so long to type
2020-10-31 18:26:20	acdw	hahhaaha
2020-10-31 18:35:28		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 19:12:49		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 19:38:31	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 19:58:39	@tomasino	which one
2020-10-31 20:00:37	▬▬▶	lovetocode9991 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 20:01:25		lovetocode9991 has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 20:01:53		lovetocode999 has left #gemini
2020-10-31 20:02:45	kiedtl	tomasino: workman
2020-10-31 20:02:50	@tomasino	yay
2020-10-31 20:06:00	acdw	work, man
2020-10-31 20:06:10	kiedtl	its torture
2020-10-31 20:07:06	@tomasino	it'll get easier
2020-10-31 20:07:08	@tomasino	you got this
2020-10-31 20:07:40	kiedtl	i nope sp
2020-10-31 20:07:56	kiedtl	*hope so
2020-10-31 20:08:11	@tomasino	tell us about your day
2020-10-31 20:08:53	kiedtl	stah; trying 2 kil me lol
2020-10-31 20:08:59	kiedtl	*stahp
2020-10-31 20:09:14	@tomasino	haha
2020-10-31 20:09:17	@tomasino	it's good practice
2020-10-31 20:09:31	@tomasino	like lifting weights
2020-10-31 20:09:38	@tomasino	slow and painful
2020-10-31 20:09:41	kiedtl	chatting on irc is good practice
2020-10-31 20:10:00	@tomasino	yeah, the conversations fly by and you finally get a comment in 3 pages later
2020-10-31 20:10:01	kiedtl	chatting anywhere, reaooy
2020-10-31 20:10:09	kiedtl	*really
2020-10-31 20:10:12	kiedtl	lol
2020-10-31 20:10:45	kiedtl	forces you to practice common words
2020-10-31 20:11:54	@tomasino	oh yes. and gets those familiar patterns into muscle memory
2020-10-31 20:12:03	@tomasino	i like when "the" stops being T.H.E.
2020-10-31 20:12:19	kiedtl	yup
2020-10-31 20:12:45	@tomasino	have you gotten to type the word potato yet?
2020-10-31 20:13:04	acdw	potato
2020-10-31 20:13:48	@tomasino	i wonder if there's a "hard words to type" list for workman
2020-10-31 20:13:58	@tomasino	on qwerty i remember pizazz being annoying
2020-10-31 20:14:04	@tomasino	and suburban
2020-10-31 20:14:19	acdw	pizzazz oooff you're right
2020-10-31 20:14:22	acdw	suburgan
2020-10-31 20:14:23	acdw	lol
2020-10-31 20:14:26	kiedtl	lol
2020-10-31 20:15:11	@tomasino	hehe
2020-10-31 20:15:50	acdw	funny story about suburban (shit that IS hard);
2020-10-31 20:16:00	kiedtl	still can't type potato smoothly. hopefully in a week I can go back to editing code
2020-10-31 20:16:00	@tomasino	pizazz is assuming the obstinance of suburbans
2020-10-31 20:16:06	acdw	my wife thought "Beast of Burden" was "Big Suburban" for like,,,,, way too long
2020-10-31 20:16:09	@tomasino	try that one acdw
2020-10-31 20:16:11	kiedtl	lolol
2020-10-31 20:16:19	acdw	pizzazz is assuming the obstinance of suburbans
2020-10-31 20:16:24	@tomasino	that's a great misheard lyric!
2020-10-31 20:16:24	acdw	assuming is okay tomasino
2020-10-31 20:16:27	acdw	haha yea
2020-10-31 20:16:30	acdw	i think it's adrobs
2020-10-31 20:16:35	acdw	obstinance is okay
2020-10-31 20:16:44	@tomasino	my fav is "Aint no woman like the one eyed goat"
2020-10-31 20:16:46	acdw	pizzazz is a pain in the ass^W pinky tho
2020-10-31 20:16:50	acdw	hahahahahahahha
2020-10-31 20:16:57	acdw	that is some good shit
2020-10-31 20:17:11	kiedtl	cant type w/ ur ass
2020-10-31 20:17:14	kiedtl	lol
2020-10-31 20:18:57	acdw	omg
2020-10-31 20:18:58	acdw	lolol
2020-10-31 20:19:07	acdw	maybe *you* can't
2020-10-31 20:19:25	@tomasino	keidtl, try "pony fun"
2020-10-31 20:30:10	ew0k	I'd like to add gemini to libcurl... but I honestly don't know when I'd have time to do it. Can I just leave https://curl.haxx.se/mail/lib-2013-01/0124.html here and hope that either someone else picks it up or a bunch of us can make a community effort?
2020-10-31 20:31:11	kiedtl	pony fun
2020-10-31 20:31:45	@tomasino	was that fun to type?
2020-10-31 20:32:27	kiedtl	pony fun
2020-10-31 20:32:42	kiedtl	hmm interesting
2020-10-31 20:32:42	@tomasino	gemini in libcurl was mentioned a while back on the mailing list. i think someone was already working on it
2020-10-31 20:32:53	ew0k	tomasino: awesome!
2020-10-31 20:33:03	@tomasino	you might try searching there to see who it was. maybe they've made progress
2020-10-31 20:34:27	ericonr	should be pretty simple to add it, I think
2020-10-31 20:35:11	ericonr	curl seems to have a lot of stuff already piped around pretty cleanly
2020-10-31 20:36:48	ew0k	it's probably really easy, actually. Just takes a bit of time
2020-10-31 20:37:47	ew0k	I'd probably trip myself up over writing the tests a bunch of times though
2020-10-31 20:48:09		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-31 20:51:07	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 21:18:38		ew0k has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-10-31 21:19:35	▬▬▶	ew0k has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 21:20:49		kernel_pancake has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-10-31 21:24:56		nixo has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-10-31 22:15:54	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 22:16:02		lovetocode999 has left #gemini
2020-10-31 22:16:27	▬▬▶	kernel_pancake has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 22:18:00		superprower has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-10-31 22:20:19	▬▬▶	superprower has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 22:27:21	▬▬▶	rndusr has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 22:28:02	rndusr	is there a location where the format of a map is?
2020-10-31 22:29:19	ℹ 	paper is now known as paper__
2020-10-31 22:29:28	ℹ 	paper_ is now known as paper
2020-10-31 22:30:54	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 22:32:11	@tomasino	gemtext format?
2020-10-31 22:42:19	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 22:59:54	boringcactus	does anybody know if solderpunk or one of the other early gemini people is planning to run gemini:// through the https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7595 process 
2020-10-31 23:07:14	acdw	i hope so boringcactus
2020-10-31 23:11:14		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-10-31 23:11:17	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 23:12:26		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 23:12:42	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 23:13:13		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-10-31 23:13:42	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-10-31 23:24:19	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-10-31 23:37:55	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 00:25:30		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-01 00:29:49	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 00:41:37	ℹ 	acdw is now known as b3n
2020-11-01 00:44:32	ℹ 	b3n is now known as l0gin
2020-11-01 00:46:28	ℹ 	l0gin is now known as acdw
2020-11-01 00:51:55		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-01 01:00:49		kernel_pancake has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-01 01:10:20		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 01:10:50	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 02:11:57		tejr has quit (quit: rebooting)
2020-11-01 02:24:27	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 02:40:20	▬▬▶	kiedtl|ltbx has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 02:40:25		kiedtl|ltbx has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-01 02:44:36		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 02:44:39	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 02:44:49		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 02:44:54	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 02:46:00		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 02:46:12	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 02:46:18		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 02:46:41	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 02:46:44		lovetocode999 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 02:46:47	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 02:51:47		ericonr has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-01 03:04:07	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 03:54:11		praetorian has quit (quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-01 04:13:58	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 04:17:03	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 04:35:02		praetorian has quit (quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-01 04:37:16	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 05:03:05		praetorian has quit (quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-01 05:26:53		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-01 07:05:36		zephryn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-01 07:22:03	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 07:25:14	ew0k	I have thought about standards processes a bit. What would the difference be if it became an ietf standard?
2020-11-01 09:15:34		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 09:15:52	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 09:37:57	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 09:41:57		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-01 10:11:29		Avalon has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2020-11-01 10:20:38		raiz has quit (quit: EOF)
2020-11-01 10:47:51		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-01 10:48:02	▬▬▶	nihilazo1 has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 10:48:29	ℹ 	nihilazo1 is now known as nihilazo
2020-11-01 11:05:47		krjst has quit (quit: bye)
2020-11-01 11:05:56		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-01 11:05:56	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 11:06:35	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 11:07:28		krjst has quit (quit: bye)
2020-11-01 11:07:38	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 11:08:50		krjst has quit (quit: bye)
2020-11-01 11:09:01	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 11:22:15	▬▬▶	joyager has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 12:22:41		superprower has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-01 12:24:59	▬▬▶	superprower has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 13:29:07	▬▬▶	kernel_pancake has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 13:41:36	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 14:23:05	rndusr	ew0k: It would get it's own registered port, maybe?
2020-11-01 14:23:35	ew0k	ew0k: maybe? :shrugs:
2020-11-01 14:39:50	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 14:43:50		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-01 14:49:16	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 14:55:19	CoopDot	Wikipedia might consider gemini notable enough :P
2020-11-01 15:04:26	ehmry	if you want an wikipedia article to stay up, cram as many links as you can into it
2020-11-01 15:09:44	ehmry	suppressive fire notability
2020-11-01 15:17:12	~tiwesdaeg	I've mostly only added images and made minor grammatical corrections on wikipedia
2020-11-01 15:17:55	~tiwesdaeg	I think it would be cool to get a gemini protocol page up 
2020-11-01 15:48:08		martijn has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-01 15:48:24	▬▬▶	martijn has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 15:48:56	Dr-WaSabi	tiwesdaeg: cool. thanks for doing that
2020-11-01 15:49:23	~tiwesdaeg	well, I didn't do anything for gemini ;P
2020-11-01 15:49:47	~tiwesdaeg	I'm not sure I really want to do a write-up for it
2020-11-01 15:50:21		joyager has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-01 15:50:41	~tiwesdaeg	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini
2020-11-01 15:50:54	~tiwesdaeg	someone created a description in the disambiguation page
2020-11-01 15:51:10	~tiwesdaeg	there is no actual page though
2020-11-01 16:08:04	Dr-WaSabi	oh... we need to get a page going then
2020-11-01 16:08:24	CoopDot	There is a draft page
2020-11-01 16:09:48	Dr-WaSabi	interesting... did not know that coleco created a clone of the 2600 vcs called Gemini, learn something new everyday
2020-11-01 16:09:52	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 16:10:13	CoopDot	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Gemini_(protocol)
2020-11-01 16:12:00	acdw	The Gemini page was recently taken down; it was talked about in the ML
2020-11-01 16:13:31	Dr-WaSabi	guess I need to get on ML
2020-11-01 16:20:06	acdw	here: https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/002897.html
2020-11-01 16:21:53		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-01 16:22:11	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 16:33:57	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 16:35:07	~tiwesdaeg	it looks like the draft needs to be submitted for review
2020-11-01 16:35:16	~tiwesdaeg	I guess we can wait for the author to do so?
2020-11-01 16:38:14	acdw	yeah,,, i think it needs more articles? to prove it's "Important?"
2020-11-01 16:41:54	CoopDot	An RFC would help
2020-11-01 16:42:00	acdw	yes indeed
2020-11-01 16:47:07		praetorian has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-01 17:02:26	Dr-WaSabi	um... so these aren't officeal gemini RFC's? gemini://gemini.conman.org/gRFC/
2020-11-01 17:02:46	Dr-WaSabi	oh wow... nice spelling there Dr-WaSabi 
2020-11-01 17:04:39	acdw	lol
2020-11-01 17:05:31	acdw	Dr-WaSabi: uh.. i guess?
2020-11-01 17:05:39	acdw	but afaik that hasn't been like, submitted
2020-11-01 17:05:47	Dr-WaSabi	oh
2020-11-01 17:05:56	acdw	OH also those are pretty out of date i think
2020-11-01 18:48:50		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-01 18:48:57	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 19:13:26		Seirdy has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 19:19:38		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 19:55:07	ew0k	aravk: I have to say that I'm satisfied with solderpunk's arguments against content-siez
2020-11-01 19:55:12	ew0k	*size
2020-11-01 20:06:45		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-01 20:18:07	acdw	me too
2020-11-01 20:18:10	acdw	i don't see the point tbh
2020-11-01 20:18:20	acdw	very few use-cases for multimedia over gemini
2020-11-01 20:18:29	acdw	esp. since you can link to any other protocol
2020-11-01 20:18:35	acdw	like,,,,if you want just do ftp:// link
2020-11-01 20:20:16	rndusr	hey
2020-11-01 20:20:22	rndusr	how does one follow links in bollux?
2020-11-01 20:21:48	acdw	when viewing the page, hit 'o'
2020-11-01 20:22:05	rndusr	thank you
2020-11-01 20:22:05	acdw	then there's a selction dialog -- type the link number and hit enter
2020-11-01 20:22:07	acdw	yw :)
2020-11-01 20:22:44	acdw	I would *love* to be able to do what a lot of clients do, and do a 1-9 for links 1-9, but less only has 10 custom exit code opitons
2020-11-01 20:22:47	acdw	it's pretty annoying
2020-11-01 20:25:02	@tomasino	I don't mind waiting without knowing size
2020-11-01 20:25:13	@tomasino	I just want it to not crash
2020-11-01 20:29:24	ℹ 	You are now known as jinglesino
2020-11-01 20:33:32	rndusr	is there a way to include multiple directoried in a git repo, without have one all emcompassing directory?
2020-11-01 20:34:02	rndusr	specifially, I'm trying to have git track public_html, public_gopher, and public_gemini
2020-11-01 20:36:19	rndusr	but I can't put it in a serv directory or something like that without asking an admin to specifically configure it for me
2020-11-01 20:36:26	rndusr	which I'm trying to aviod
2020-11-01 20:36:47	rndusr	s/iod/oid/g
2020-11-01 20:46:22	ew0k	what kind of feeds do CAPCOM and Spacewalk follow? RSS?
2020-11-01 20:50:25	rndusr	um
2020-11-01 20:50:34	rndusr	the readme does not mention rss or something like that
2020-11-01 20:50:49	ew0k	yeah... and rss feels like a web-y sort of thing
2020-11-01 20:51:01	rndusr	yeah :/
2020-11-01 20:51:20	ew0k	CAPCOM *does* say "Aggregating 78 Atom feeds", though
2020-11-01 20:51:26	rndusr	hmm
2020-11-01 20:54:38	ew0k	yeah, it's atom feeds
2020-11-01 20:55:36	ew0k	check gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk/gemlog/atom.xml for example
2020-11-01 20:59:42		lovetocode999 has left #gemini
2020-11-01 21:01:50	CoopDot	Assuming public_html, public_gopher and public_gemini are all in your home directory and have full ownership. Have you considered making them symlinks or would that brake one or more of the servers?
2020-11-01 21:06:31		kiedtl has quit (quit: <Esc>:wq!<Ret>)
2020-11-01 21:07:13	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 21:19:20	rndusr	CoopDot: make what symlinks?
2020-11-01 21:19:51	rndusr	like, have a directory of simlinks to pub_ht, pub_gem, and pub_goph?
2020-11-01 21:20:15	rndusr	and ahve git track that directory?
2020-11-01 21:20:28	rndusr	can git follow symlinks?
2020-11-01 21:20:59	CoopDot	I was thinking the other way around
2020-11-01 21:21:26	rndusr	oh
2020-11-01 21:21:35	rndusr	that makes sense
2020-11-01 21:21:42	rndusr	thank you!
2020-11-01 21:21:51	CoopDot	~/public_html -> ~/tracked/public_html
2020-11-01 21:21:56	rndusr	yeah
2020-11-01 21:22:40	CoopDot	however, some webservers might take an issue with that
2020-11-01 21:24:58	rndusr	do you know if nginx would take issue with it?
2020-11-01 21:26:41	alex11	is there a list of cool gemini/gopher sites?
2020-11-01 21:26:56	rndusr	I don't think there's a central list
2020-11-01 21:27:53	acdw	alex11: gemini://gus.guru/known-hosts
2020-11-01 21:28:02	acdw	oh that's all of them ... lol
2020-11-01 21:28:10	acdw	i guess you could say they're *all* pretty cool :P
2020-11-01 21:28:12	CoopDot	[nginx] I don't know, but it's an easy change to revert
2020-11-01 21:28:48	acdw	rnusr: I don't think the servers would care about following symlinks. what server are you on?
2020-11-01 21:29:40	acdw	also RE: Atom feeds instaed of a more... Gemini-y thing: That's been talked about too, on the ML and maybe in here? Basically the idea is the same behind using TLS: it's already written, it works well, it's well-specced
2020-11-01 21:29:55	acdw	sure it's not *super* simple, but it's really not very complicated either
2020-11-01 21:30:19	acdw	I hand-wrote the RSS generator for my http site from a glanc at the wikipedia page, for example. 
2020-11-01 21:30:25	rndusr	speaking of atom and rss, does gemini://tilde.club/~randomuser/writings/articles/rss.xml look like correctly formed rss?
2020-11-01 21:31:20	acdw	I think so? Is there not a <feed></feed> .. wrapper? I honestly would hvae to look it up to be sure
2020-11-01 21:32:04	acdw	yeah you want to close the <rss> feed at the end
2020-11-01 21:32:18	acdw	here's a sapmle file from the RSS Board: https://www.rssboard.org/files/sample-rss-2.xml
2020-11-01 21:32:22	rndusr	acdw: ok
2020-11-01 21:32:41	acdw	oh you want a <channel> tag too to wrap it
2020-11-01 21:32:53	acdw	like,,,<rss><channel>...</channel></rss>
2020-11-01 21:32:55	acdw	:D
2020-11-01 21:32:58	acdw	okay going shopping
2020-11-01 21:33:37	rndusr	have fun!
2020-11-01 21:33:48	makeworld	rndusr: Usually people use atom on Gemini btw
2020-11-01 21:34:00	makeworld	See you acdw
2020-11-01 21:34:18	rndusr	oh well
2020-11-01 21:34:26	rndusr	I'll focus on it later
2020-11-01 21:34:43	rndusr	my vim isn't configured correctly so it renders tabs as 8 spaces :/
2020-11-01 21:34:54	rndusr	ideally it's be tab = 4 spaces
2020-11-01 21:34:57	rndusr	and no tabs
2020-11-01 21:35:06	makeworld	Uh oh it doesn't look like that feed is valid
2020-11-01 21:35:08	★	rndusr suchgs
2020-11-01 21:35:16	makeworld	https://validator.w3.org/feed/#validate_by_input
2020-11-01 21:35:23	makeworld	I tested it here and there were some complaints
2020-11-01 21:35:36	rndusr	oh well ._.
2020-11-01 21:36:24	thefunkyspaw	I've made big progress in understanding the beautiful soup model 
2020-11-01 21:36:52	thefunkyspaw	I'm using it to write an HTML -> gemtext converter, for reasons that don't make a ton of sense :)
2020-11-01 21:36:58		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-01 21:37:09	makeworld	rndusr: If you're just generating a feed for static files you should check out gemfeed
2020-11-01 21:37:24	★	makeworld afk
2020-11-01 21:37:39	zephryn	are there any rss/atom readers that have implemented gemini?
2020-11-01 21:37:45	rndusr	yeah
2020-11-01 21:37:50	rndusr	there's spacewalk
2020-11-01 21:39:05	ℹ 	You are now known as tomasino
2020-11-01 21:46:03	★	Dr-WaSabi sets his vim config to treat .gmi files as markdown
2020-11-01 21:47:38	rndusr	wait
2020-11-01 21:48:02	rndusr	can one use escape sequences to add color to gemini/gopher pages
2020-11-01 21:48:19	thefunkyspaw	yes, if the client supports it
2020-11-01 21:48:36	thefunkyspaw	one big downside is web proxies usually don't
2020-11-01 21:48:36	rndusr	so I'd have to ideally provide a non coloured version
2020-11-01 21:48:43	thefunkyspaw	yeah
2020-11-01 21:54:34	rndusr	oh, nginx serves content with soft simlinks
2020-11-01 21:54:41	rndusr	incase anyone was wondering
2020-11-01 22:04:39	Dr-WaSabi	really... color excape sequences..  didn't know that.  I thought gemini files where only allowd like 3 or 4 c0 control sequences in them
2020-11-01 22:13:49	@tomasino	Dr-WaSabi: there's a vim gemtext syntax file linked on circumlunar
2020-11-01 22:26:50	Dr-WaSabi	oh cewl.. thanks
2020-11-01 22:28:58		kernel_pancake has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-01 22:32:41	rndusr	exit
2020-11-01 22:32:44	rndusr	whoops
2020-11-01 22:33:57	CoopDot	color excape sequences are dicouraged but not forbidden
2020-11-01 22:34:38	CoopDot	I consider them a bad idea
2020-11-01 22:34:55	rndusr	I guess I should publish them as an .ansi file
2020-11-01 22:35:01	rndusr	or whatever they're called
2020-11-01 22:36:49	rndusr	or just make them not gemfiles
2020-11-01 22:39:11	rndusr	wait
2020-11-01 22:39:31	rndusr	is 404-like behaviour defined in gopher or gemini?
2020-11-01 22:48:43	CoopDot	51
2020-11-01 22:53:10	CoopDot	sorry, "HTTP 404 Not Found" is similar to "Gemini 51 Not Found" but there are no custom error pages
2020-11-01 23:04:55	rndusr	ah
2020-11-01 23:04:57	rndusr	okay
2020-11-01 23:05:42		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-01 23:10:35	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 23:11:38	acdw	b/c Area 51 :D
2020-11-01 23:11:39	zephryn	welcome back :D
2020-11-01 23:12:11	acdw	rndusr: for vim tabs, check the 'tabstop' option i think
2020-11-01 23:12:17	acdw	you can do :help 'tabstop'
2020-11-01 23:15:18	▬▬▶	dacav has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 23:31:46	rndusr	henlo
2020-11-01 23:32:18	acdw	hi!
2020-11-01 23:32:31	acdw	i'm going to switch to molly-brown i think, but i'm going to figure out my ish first on my compy
2020-11-01 23:32:45	acdw	GEMINI
2020-11-01 23:37:39	epoch	I just noticed that castor is sending fragment IDs to the server
2020-11-01 23:37:43	acdw	so fyi, i guess
2020-11-01 23:46:44	▬▬▶	Seirdy has joined #gemini
2020-11-01 23:47:19		Seirdy has quit (quit: exiting 3.0-rc1)
2020-11-01 23:52:42	jcowan	epoch: you should report it to the castor mailing list (register at https://lists.sr.ht/~julienxx/castor)
2020-11-01 23:53:03		fleeky has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-01 23:53:05	epoch	I have the most recent post on that list
2020-11-01 23:54:03	epoch	I'll put a bit more effort into a report on the list than just a one-liner like I do in IRC.
2020-11-01 23:54:58	▬▬▶	Seirdy has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 00:13:17	acdw	haha
2020-11-02 00:22:54	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 00:23:27	▬▬▶	sircmpwn has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 00:23:49	sircmpwn	greetings
2020-11-02 00:24:20	acdw	hi sircmpwn!
2020-11-02 00:24:30	boringcactus	hey
2020-11-02 00:26:52	sircmpwn	many familiar faces in here
2020-11-02 00:31:56	acdw	yes
2020-11-02 00:31:58	acdw	we hang out
2020-11-02 00:32:08	acdw	it's tthe cool place to be
2020-11-02 00:33:28	alex11	being on one network is fun where you can flip between multiple channels and see the same names chatting 
2020-11-02 00:33:36	boringcactus	all the cool* kids** hang out on here
2020-11-02 00:33:37	Dr-WaSabi	acdw even lets me hang out in here, but I have to send him a check every week for the privage
2020-11-02 00:33:41	boringcactus	*no we're not **no we're not
2020-11-02 00:33:46	acdw	haha i wish Dr-WaSabi
2020-11-02 00:33:54	Dr-WaSabi	Im glad I dont
2020-11-02 00:33:55	acdw	aw boringcactus i think you're cool
2020-11-02 00:34:00	acdw	i mean, you're welcome too
2020-11-02 00:34:02	acdw	*to
2020-11-02 00:38:27	sircmpwn	one of the challenges that I think gemini faces and will continue to face is dis-sastisfaction with its meager feature set from new members of the community
2020-11-02 00:38:46	sircmpwn	like a third of the people I talk to about gemini immediately start talking about the extensions they would make to add $FEATURE
2020-11-02 00:39:26	sircmpwn	I think it's important that we establish a culture of conservatism with respect to extensions, and re-iterate that we want to find out what good things we can do within the limitations we've got
2020-11-02 00:40:02	sircmpwn	trying to figure out the right way of expressing this idea to newcomers
2020-11-02 00:40:17	boringcactus	minimalism as a guiding principle means your favorite feature won't be there, but it also means your least favorite won't be
2020-11-02 00:40:39	boringcactus	and like. you can technically build shit like a mastodon/pleroma client over Gemini
2020-11-02 00:40:45	sircmpwn	that's a good way of stating it
2020-11-02 00:41:07	boringcactus	building gemifedi was actually a really interesting exercise in designing within constraints
2020-11-02 00:42:09	boringcactus	people have made the case that gemini's not really built to be used for that, and that's true, but if you try hard and believe in yourself you can do it anyway
2020-11-02 00:43:03	boringcactus	it makes some good things difficult, yeah, but it makes most bad things difficult
2020-11-02 00:43:28	sircmpwn	it will be interesting to build a sourcehut frontend for gemini
2020-11-02 00:43:41	sircmpwn	it's really going to stretch the medium
2020-11-02 00:43:48	boringcactus	yeah that'll be interesting to see
2020-11-02 00:44:15	★	Dr-WaSabi listens and learns
2020-11-02 00:44:30	sircmpwn	I like solderpunk's replies to the content-length discussion today. I can see some of the deliberate design decisions in the protocol which makes it difficult to extend in a backwards-compatible way
2020-11-02 00:44:55	sircmpwn	which gives it a built-in pressure against such expansion, even in the absence of negative feedback from the community (for example if someone who writes a client never subscribes to the list)
2020-11-02 00:48:08	rndusr	is there a mailing list that I should know about? lol
2020-11-02 00:49:40	sircmpwn	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/listinfo/gemini
2020-11-02 00:50:03	rndusr	ah
2020-11-02 00:50:05	rndusr	yes
2020-11-02 00:59:03	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 01:12:56		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-02 01:28:23	acdw	this is great discussion!
2020-11-02 01:29:24	acdw	also --- there is a stagit fork which works over gemini, and even a git cgi script for gemini
2020-11-02 01:31:32	rndusr	gemini has a cgi standard?
2020-11-02 01:31:38	rndusr	I'll have to experiment!
2020-11-02 01:34:18	acdw	it follows *the* cgi standard
2020-11-02 01:34:33	acdw	slash spec or whatever
2020-11-02 01:35:45	alex11	huh
2020-11-02 01:35:50	alex11	there's no wikipedia page for gemini
2020-11-02 01:35:54	alex11	i thought there used to be one
2020-11-02 01:39:11	@tomasino	It's in draft
2020-11-02 01:39:15	Dr-WaSabi	think I saw that it was taken down
2020-11-02 01:39:23	Dr-WaSabi	but there is a draft page
2020-11-02 01:40:18	Dr-WaSabi	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Gemini_(protocol)
2020-11-02 01:40:49	alex11	i tried installing elpher and my emacs version in debian is too old rip
2020-11-02 01:45:34	▬▬▶	kiedtl|ltbx has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 01:45:34	acdw	yeah it was taken down
2020-11-02 01:45:36	acdw	alex11: awww
2020-11-02 01:45:41	acdw	what versoin is debian emacs?
2020-11-02 01:45:45	alex11	26.1
2020-11-02 01:45:46	acdw	build! from! source!
2020-11-02 01:45:56	acdw	huh, i would'a thought 26.1 would build elpher
2020-11-02 01:46:00	acdw	s/build/run/
2020-11-02 01:47:19	alex11	there's also flatpak but meh i don't need a newer emacs
2020-11-02 01:48:24	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 01:49:38	acdw	oh it just requires 26.2
2020-11-02 01:49:41	acdw	so close!
2020-11-02 01:50:32	Dr-WaSabi	oh that sucks
2020-11-02 01:51:09	zephryn	ah dang D:
2020-11-02 01:51:19	acdw	idk why 
2020-11-02 01:51:53	zephryn	are there more up-to-date ppas?
2020-11-02 01:52:00	alex11	PPAs break debian
2020-11-02 01:52:20	alex11	there's ways to get newer emacs, i'm just not interested
2020-11-02 01:52:58	zephryn	ohh, i must be thinking of another ppa-like method
2020-11-02 01:53:23	acdw	well rip
2020-11-02 01:58:51	alex11	ppa is an ubuntu thing
2020-11-02 02:01:16	acdw	i actually didn't realize that! huh
2020-11-02 02:02:18	alex11	wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
2020-11-02 02:03:08	acdw	alex11: huh,TIL
2020-11-02 02:03:11	acdw	thanks!
2020-11-02 02:13:39	epoch	urn:ietf:rfc:3875 CGI
2020-11-02 02:16:43	zephryn	i feel like i remember using a third-party package for apt with debian, so i must've mixed that method up with ppas
2020-11-02 02:17:31	acdw	do any of yall have a cgi/scgi script as your / ?
2020-11-02 02:24:13	epoch	I could.
2020-11-02 02:27:12	alex11	*some* third party repos are fine, some .debs are fine
2020-11-02 02:27:45	acdw	epoch: you could but you don't?
2020-11-02 02:27:50	acdw	can I ask what server you use?
2020-11-02 02:28:48	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/
2020-11-02 02:28:54	epoch	I use some shell-script ran from stunnel
2020-11-02 02:29:20	epoch	just now added 3 lines to the shell-script to have it do index.cgi if it exists
2020-11-02 02:30:04	epoch	lemme commit changes and I'll link you to it.
2020-11-02 02:30:40	acdw	maybe i should do a shell-script server .......
2020-11-02 02:33:14	zephryn	ah i remember now, it was nodesource when i was trying to run something that needed a newer version of node
2020-11-02 02:33:29	acdw	epoch: oh snap, your server is down
2020-11-02 02:33:35	acdw	i got a time-out
2020-11-02 02:33:41	acdw	i broke your server D:
2020-11-02 02:34:02	epoch	mmm might be your client.
2020-11-02 02:34:24	zephryn	timed out for me as well
2020-11-02 02:34:25	sircmpwn	doesn't work for me, either
2020-11-02 02:34:46	sircmpwn	"it cannot be my fault, it must be the user's fault" - every programmer
2020-11-02 02:35:43	epoch	which clients are you two using so I can test them?
2020-11-02 02:35:55	boringcactus	oh the "just don't install software we haven't specifically approved" debian page is hilarious
2020-11-02 02:36:09	epoch	if my server isn't responding, it is my fault
2020-11-02 02:36:18	sircmpwn	gmnlm
2020-11-02 02:36:31	boringcactus	when you're definitely not replicating the same walled garden you're trying to offer an escape from
2020-11-02 02:36:46	sircmpwn	boringcactus: they're correct
2020-11-02 02:36:56	sircmpwn	the only way you should install software is through your distribution's package repository
2020-11-02 02:37:06	sircmpwn	if software you want is missing, request it or package it up and send it upstream
2020-11-02 02:38:41	epoch	hrm. including a / at the end of the https URI when doing git clone on gmni returned an error
2020-11-02 02:38:53	epoch	worked without the trailing / though
2020-11-02 02:39:37	zephryn	possibly has an error with how it parses urls
2020-11-02 02:40:52	epoch	"gmni -j once gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/" worked here, so it is probably something else dumb on my end
2020-11-02 02:40:59	sircmpwn	firewall?
2020-11-02 02:41:16	epoch	I don't have any.
2020-11-02 02:41:24	sircmpwn	wait, it works now. It's just sloooooow
2020-11-02 02:41:27	boringcactus	well in that case sircmpwn why provide a make install target in the first place?
2020-11-02 02:41:34	sircmpwn	boringcactus: for the distros to use
2020-11-02 02:41:53	epoch	alright, was just about to check the port forwards on my router..
2020-11-02 02:42:27	epoch	probably need to move gemini to a different computer. its on a raspi atm that's doing too many things.
2020-11-02 02:42:57	★	epoch stops i2pd
2020-11-02 02:43:37	epoch	should go faster now
2020-11-02 02:43:51	sircmpwn	not especially
2020-11-02 02:44:57	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 02:50:45	acdw	epoch: sorry it took me a minute; i'm using elpher
2020-11-02 02:50:50	acdw	your site's worked before
2020-11-02 02:51:31	acdw	HEY it's up now!
2020-11-02 02:51:54	epoch	5.63 5.92 6.05 2/257 30017
2020-11-02 02:51:59	epoch	that's /proc/loadavg atm
2020-11-02 02:52:06	acdw	must've been the thru put, it was a timeout
2020-11-02 02:52:11	acdw	idk what that means lol
2020-11-02 02:52:28	epoch	I only have 1 CPU, so that 5. means 500% I'm pretty sure
2020-11-02 02:52:56	acdw	haha
2020-11-02 02:52:58	acdw	dang
2020-11-02 02:53:05	acdw	over 50000
2020-11-02 02:54:05	dctrud	is the pi in swap or something?
2020-11-02 02:54:17	epoch	if you can figure out how to get your client to send "urn:ietf:rfc:1918" (or whatever RFC number) to gemini://epo.k.vu/ it'll send back a uri-list
2020-11-02 02:55:24	epoch	doesn't seem to be in swap much
2020-11-02 02:55:51	dctrud	even a little can be pretty catastrophic if you are swapping to an sd card
2020-11-02 02:57:08	acdw	epoch: I know i gitted your shell-script server before, but i don't remember where from. linK?
2020-11-02 02:57:51	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/shell-daemons/ (I'd give you the link hosted on this raspi, but it is already under enough trouble atm :P)
2020-11-02 02:58:30	acdw	thanks!
2020-11-02 02:58:31	acdw	haha
2020-11-02 02:59:46	acdw	so epoch: to run that, i just ... run it?
2020-11-02 02:59:56	acdw	like, put it in a service file and let her rip?
2020-11-02 03:00:21	acdw	oh no, i need to stunnel it
2020-11-02 03:02:10	epoch	uhhh
2020-11-02 03:02:12	epoch	about that.
2020-11-02 03:02:23	epoch	some of the variables it uses aren't set by normal stunnel
2020-11-02 03:02:54	epoch	because, I guess nobody else wanted all those handy variables in subprocesses from stunnel before me.
2020-11-02 03:03:53	epoch	like, SSL_TLS_SNI I had to add in
2020-11-02 03:04:05		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-02 03:04:08	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 03:06:33	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-11-02 03:07:47	epoch	gemini://gemini.thebackupbox.net/stunnel.diff here's a diff of what I did
2020-11-02 03:08:14	epoch	looks like I didn't finish and commented some stuff out
2020-11-02 03:39:01	jcowan	I wrote up the Dioscuri protocol in a more stable way.  Eventually I'll convert it into text/gemini when it's more stable.  It's at https://tinyurl.com/dioscuri-protocol
2020-11-02 03:39:48	jcowan	Please read and comment here or at cowan@ccil.org.  Thanks.
2020-11-02 03:40:25	acdw	epoch: woa lol, looks like i'm gonna be playing withthis later
2020-11-02 03:40:59	acdw	jcowan: hell yes!  I've been thinking about using like, molly-brown and running something else on 1967 or something to upload.  I'll take a look at it! Thanks :)
2020-11-02 03:41:31	jcowan	It needs an app server rather than a document server to actually be useful, though.
2020-11-02 03:41:44	jcowan	and atm I don't have time to write one.
2020-11-02 03:43:44	acdw	wdym?
2020-11-02 03:49:42	acdw	oh i just saw the port number, nice
2020-11-02 03:54:39	acdw	jcowan: how can a client close the sending side but keep its receiving side open?
2020-11-02 04:00:00		avane has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-11-02 04:00:11	jcowan	At the C level, with shutdown(fd, 1), where 1 = close the sending side
2020-11-02 04:00:43	jcowan	0 means close the receiving side, and 2 means close both (which is equivalent to plain close(fd).
2020-11-02 04:01:25	jcowan	there are some Posix constants, SHUT_RD, SHUT_WR, SHUT_RW.
2020-11-02 04:02:27	jcowan	Come to think of it, though, that might not be supported by TLS libraries.  I'll have to look into that.
2020-11-02 04:02:55	acdw	oh okay --- yeah I'd be using bash, lol
2020-11-02 04:03:04	acdw	i'd have to see if openssl s_client could do that
2020-11-02 04:03:15	▬▬▶	zdragon has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 04:03:18	acdw	or ... elpher
2020-11-02 04:04:21	boringcactus	if you press Ctrl+D to signify EOF would that work? or however you'd embed that into a pipe or what have you
2020-11-02 04:05:31		easeout has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-02 04:05:59	acdw	I mean -- I tink EOF just . happens? . when it comes to end of file, in a stream e.g.
2020-11-02 04:06:08	acdw	like when cat does its thing, right?
2020-11-02 04:06:32	jcowan	I think you have to call TLS_shutdown, close one side of the raw socket ... but then what?  You can't restart TLS with a half-open socket.
2020-11-02 04:06:35	jcowan	ow ow ow ow
2020-11-02 04:07:07	epoch	if you don't use -ign_eof for openssl s_client, and you try to just printf "URL\r\n" | openssl s_client, it'll end early
2020-11-02 04:07:22	epoch	(-quiet implies -ign_eof)
2020-11-02 04:07:23	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 04:08:01	acdw	oh okay, so you'd send the ign_eof
2020-11-02 04:09:30	epoch	from what I'm looking at, half-closed is a new thing for TLS 1.3
2020-11-02 04:09:35	jcowan	There doesn't seem to be such a thing.  ign_eof means "Keep the connection open even though there is nothing more to send."  But the receiving end doesn't get any indication of that.
2020-11-02 04:09:46	epoch	"draft-22 - Implement changes for improved middlebox penetration (*)"
2020-11-02 04:09:48	jcowan	Oh, good.  Still, there are few libraries that support 1.3 yet
2020-11-02 04:09:53	epoch	"Remove requirement to immediately respond to close_notify with close_notify (allowing half-close)"
2020-11-02 04:09:59	acdw	oh huh
2020-11-02 04:09:59	jcowan	Thanks.
2020-11-02 04:09:59	epoch	https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-tls13-25.html
2020-11-02 04:10:36	acdw	jcowan: have you looked at titan? https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan
2020-11-02 04:11:35	jcowan	Sure.  Titan is a PUT protocol rather than a POST protocol; no entity body comes back from the server.
2020-11-02 04:11:41	acdw	OH sorry
2020-11-02 04:11:51	acdw	I am not "up" on my HTTP verbs
2020-11-02 04:12:16	acdw	so it makes sense that it doesn't hve those issues
2020-11-02 04:12:20	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 04:13:25	jcowan	Maybe I can put together a trivial server that lets you send something like {"op":"+", "left":2, "right":3} and returns {"result:5"}.
2020-11-02 04:14:01	jcowan	So in practice I guess the content-length will be mandatory for sending.
2020-11-02 04:14:15		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-02 04:19:04	jcowan	Okay, patched things up.  A request-line has URI, content length, MIME type, and a response-line has 2-digit code, content length, META.
2020-11-02 04:19:15	jcowan	No messy interaction with TLS.
2020-11-02 04:20:13	jcowan	Unfortunately, neither the client nor the server can stream its output, as the length must be known in advance.  However, for application/json bodies, that's typically the case anyway.
2020-11-02 04:24:03	acdw	well that's okay i think
2020-11-02 04:24:13	acdw	streams are kind of a weird thing in gmeini anyway
2020-11-02 04:25:31	acdw	so each side closes the connection?
2020-11-02 04:25:36	acdw	like: C: request, close
2020-11-02 04:25:43	acdw	S: response, close
2020-11-02 04:25:44	acdw	?
2020-11-02 04:27:44	acdw	OH right -- POST is for form input, i understand this now, lol
2020-11-02 04:53:45		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-02 05:06:05	praetorian	Is there a server equivalent of the client torture test? I.e. something to fuzz the server to find potential crashes, bugs or security issues?
2020-11-02 05:08:34	acdw	yes, tho i don't know where it is
2020-11-02 05:09:45	praetorian	Hm, alright.
2020-11-02 05:10:39	acdw	you could try serachign gus.guru or the mailing list
2020-11-02 05:13:02	jcowan	acdw: That's what I was doing, but it won't work on TLS 1.2.  So in Dioscuri I'm going with content lengths rather than half-closes.
2020-11-02 05:13:31	acdw	ah, neat
2020-11-02 05:13:39	acdw	oh okay cool
2020-11-02 05:41:24	praetorian	acdw: I found this https://github.com/michael-lazar/gemini-diagnostics I might try this out.
2020-11-02 05:41:39	acdw	nicE!
2020-11-02 05:41:58	zephryn	ooo, looks nice
2020-11-02 06:02:47	praetorian	just tried it out. works well.. now I have some work to do on my server.
2020-11-02 06:07:17		praetorian has quit (quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-02 06:11:16	acdw	awesome!
2020-11-02 06:15:39		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-02 07:59:20	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 09:07:16	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 09:22:35	ew0k	does anyone have a link to a gmi2html utility?
2020-11-02 09:31:47		nixo has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-02 09:31:57	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 09:34:05		wingy has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-02 09:34:22	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 10:29:23	nixo	Hi, I've got a question about the protocol.  Is it fine to send a 0-length <META>?  In section 3.1 there's a maximum length, but not a minimum, and under 3.2.4,5,6 there's "may provide", and under 3.3 it says it can be an empty string.  Am I right?
2020-11-02 10:37:52		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-11-02 10:42:41	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 10:48:07	ew0k	nixo: what status code do you intend to send? I *think* a 0-length meta is fine, but most status codes would benefit greatly from some meta info
2020-11-02 10:49:12	ew0k	the protocol is mostly geared towards human readers, and a human reader would like to know what went wrong. The exception is 20, which also returns a response body. In that case the browser would benefit from mime type info
2020-11-02 10:49:57	ew0k	I just got involved in this myself, so may interpretation is likely to be as much guesswork as your own :)
2020-11-02 11:41:03	nixo	ew0k: I'm working now on the client side (kristall, solving issue https://github.com/MasterQ32/kristall/issues/43)
2020-11-02 11:41:55	nixo	ew0k: we were wondering if a missing meta is valid or not
2020-11-02 11:45:04	ew0k	right. Hmmm.
2020-11-02 12:03:19	ew0k	nixo: My interpretation after re-reading the specification is that 1) A browser should be able to handle a zero-length meta field, because the specification does not un-ambigously state a minimum length - and 2) you should post a request for clarification on the mailing list, so that the specification is updated to be clear on the topic
2020-11-02 12:22:00		mink has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-02 12:49:11	▬▬▶	martijnbraam has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 12:50:19	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 13:05:02		avane has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-02 13:09:26	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 13:22:15	jcowan	I'd like to know too, because the error responses of Dioscuri are the same as those of Gemini, and the notion of displaying something to the user doesn't much make sense in a Dioscuri appserver.
2020-11-02 13:30:56	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 13:36:04	ew0k	jcowan: I read the specs on dioscuri last night. I don't fully understand how it's different from titan, except the lack of authorization token
2020-11-02 13:37:15	jcowan	A Titan client just pushes a new body to a specified URL.  A Dioscuri client pushes content and then either pulls content or is told where to pull it from.  
2020-11-02 13:37:52	jcowan	I've added a bit more today about Titan and about using the MIME-type messag/external-body when the response body is not in the message, rather than a new response code.
2020-11-02 13:45:44	nixo	ew0k: sent the mail to the list, waiting for moderation
2020-11-02 13:56:04	ew0k	nixo: Super!
2020-11-02 13:56:25	ew0k	moderation can take time, unfortunately. Like... a day or so, from what I've heard
2020-11-02 13:56:35	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 14:01:26		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-02 14:38:02	sircmpwn	hey guys, quick note: please pick a license for your capsule's content and add a note to that effect on your index page
2020-11-02 14:38:14	sircmpwn	I use CC-BY-SA for mine
2020-11-02 14:38:17	sircmpwn	https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/
2020-11-02 14:41:24	@tomasino	your nick and your name on everything else on the internet don't mesh in my head
2020-11-02 14:41:34	@tomasino	:)
2020-11-02 14:41:56	ℹ 	sircmpwn is now known as ddevault
2020-11-02 14:42:05	@tomasino	i mean, i see it now that i look deeper, but with the chars all together i get stupid
2020-11-02 14:42:17	@tomasino	hah, no need to change it! just admiting my stupid
2020-11-02 14:42:38	@tomasino	nice post, btw
2020-11-02 14:43:42	ddevault	thanks :)
2020-11-02 14:45:18	raiz	ddevault: yeah, good call, I'll have my gempod up soon. Initially I was going to roll my own server implementation, I discovered gmnisrv just now, I think I'll go with it, seems to cover all I want
2020-11-02 14:45:23	ddevault	nice
2020-11-02 14:46:06	raiz	kinda feels like geomyidae (from gopher space)
2020-11-02 14:46:12	raiz	which is neat
2020-11-02 14:48:37	@tomasino	added a link to a license file on my capsule - gemini://tilde.team/~tomasino/license.txt
2020-11-02 14:52:52	makeworld	Where is the dioscuri spec? The recently emailed shortlink didn't work
2020-11-02 15:18:08	▬▬▶	insep_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 15:19:43		martijn has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-02 15:20:35	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 15:21:13		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-02 15:21:20	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 15:34:31		nihilazo has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-02 15:42:44	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 15:45:29	aravk	ew0k: yeah, I agree (re: solderpunk's arguments against content-size)
2020-11-02 15:45:58	aravk	I just thought it would be a useful feature to clients, but I understand that it's not really something Gemini needs.
2020-11-02 15:49:36	kayw	is it okay to use a letsencrypt cert for my capsule or should I just roll with a self-signed one
2020-11-02 15:50:21	ew0k	kayw: it’s okay, but not necessary :)
2020-11-02 15:51:18	kayw	hmmm yeah
2020-11-02 15:51:38	kayw	I think I'll just switch to a self-signed cert
2020-11-02 15:54:57	dacav	how would a let's encrypt for gemini work btw?  Would you get the certificate signed by let's encrypt via HTTP, as you would do for a HTTPS server, and then use it for your capsule?
2020-11-02 15:57:21	▬▬▶	martijn has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 15:58:36	ddevault	don't use let's encrypt
2020-11-02 15:58:38	ddevault	use self-signed certificates
2020-11-02 15:59:50	ddevault	maybe I should explicitly distrust certificates signed by an authority in my client to discourage this
2020-11-02 16:02:29	raiz	ddevault: alloca.h seems to be a linux-only thing, considering that I checked manpages for the 3 major BSDs and all of them specify alloca() in stdlib.h, this caused errors when compiling on openbsd, then I placed #include <alloca.h> in an #ifdef for linux and recompiled, still have similar errors
2020-11-02 16:02:41	raiz	I've looked through the manpage of alloca(3) on openbsd but it didn't say much
2020-11-02 16:02:52	raiz	until I went through the manpage of alloca(3) on linux and...
2020-11-02 16:03:01	dacav	hi ddevault!
2020-11-02 16:03:15	dacav	I always read your blog :)
2020-11-02 16:03:31	@ben	what's the argument against letsencrypt?
2020-11-02 16:03:48	raiz	-std=c11 on openbsd disables the inclusion of alloca(3) even when stdlib.h is included
2020-11-02 16:04:02	raiz	read Notes on the GNU version on alloca(3) for linux
2020-11-02 16:04:03	@ben	i used letsencrypt for my gemini site cause i already had the certs and didn't want to look up the incantation to create my own certs
2020-11-02 16:04:07	raiz	https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/alloca.3.html
2020-11-02 16:04:22	ddevault	it's in vendored code
2020-11-02 16:04:25	ddevault	would you consider writing a patch?
2020-11-02 16:04:28	dacav	raiz: afaik even on Linux it is discouraged.  In practice there's never a good reason for using alloca(3).  Most of the use cases for it can be covered with a local array having a bounded max size.
2020-11-02 16:04:48	raiz	ddevault: I'm still not done getting it to compile on openbsd
2020-11-02 16:05:00	raiz	seems that ASN1_TIME_diff isn't here either
2020-11-02 16:05:02	ddevault	thanks dacav :)
2020-11-02 16:05:03	raiz	I'm gonna look into it
2020-11-02 16:05:10	ddevault	raiz: note that LibreSSL is not supported
2020-11-02 16:05:16	raiz	yeah
2020-11-02 16:05:20	martijnbraam	ben: gmnisrv generates the certs for you, no need to figure out the magic openssl commands to make it work
2020-11-02 16:05:24	raiz	I'll look into having openssl there
2020-11-02 16:05:30	ddevault	ben: my server implementation generates certificates for you, without any sysadmin involvement at all
2020-11-02 16:05:37	raiz	and understand how the configure scrips generates makefiles
2020-11-02 16:05:47	ddevault	we should normalize self-signed certs and discourage admins from touching them at all
2020-11-02 16:05:57	@ben	that sounds nice
2020-11-02 16:06:10	@ben	i haven't looked at your impl yet - i'm currently running gemserv
2020-11-02 16:06:25	ddevault	certs are annoying as hell, easy to get wrong, and the CA cabal is not something I'm interested in bringing forward to the next thing
2020-11-02 16:06:25	raiz	ddevault: I'll keep you updated
2020-11-02 16:06:35	@ben	understandable
2020-11-02 16:06:37	ddevault	ben: https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gmnisrv
2020-11-02 16:06:48	ddevault	see src/tls.c
2020-11-02 16:07:18	@ben	does gmnisrv support ~user pages and cgi?
2020-11-02 16:07:27	ddevault	I don't know how ~user pages are supposed to work
2020-11-02 16:07:31	ddevault	cgi is supported
2020-11-02 16:07:42	@ben	gemini://tilde.team/~ben is hosted from ~/public_gemini
2020-11-02 16:07:48	@ben	just per-user docroot
2020-11-02 16:07:48	ddevault	it supports regex routing and URL rewriting, which might be able to do the ~user thing
2020-11-02 16:07:57	ew0k	ddevault: I saw that Cochrane is planning a blog battle with you regarding meaningful HTTP subsets :) looking forward to reading that
2020-11-02 16:08:34	ddevault	[example.org~/~(?<user>.*)/(?<path>.*)]root=/home rewrite=/\1/\2
2020-11-02 16:08:37	ddevault	something like that
2020-11-02 16:08:51		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-02 16:08:53	@ben	oh ok nice
2020-11-02 16:09:09	@ben	i'll have a look
2020-11-02 16:09:10	ddevault	\{user} \{path} derp
2020-11-02 16:09:15	ddevault	why did I name the capture groups if I don't even use them
2020-11-02 16:09:19	@ben	not sure i'll switch over but that seems reasonable
2020-11-02 16:09:30	@ben	i wouldn't mind _not_ using LE
2020-11-02 16:09:55	ddevault	it's not quite done, still needs some more stuff around client certificates, and a couple of bugs ironed out, and I'll probably switch to BearSSL
2020-11-02 16:10:45	@ben	cool :)
2020-11-02 16:15:41	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 16:49:07	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 16:49:11		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-02 16:51:55	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 16:59:04	raiz	ddevault: I assume you never tested it with any version lower than openssl 1.1, correct?
2020-11-02 16:59:20	ddevault	correct
2020-11-02 16:59:28	ddevault	I only support the latest version of my dependencies in any of the software I write
2020-11-02 17:00:08	raiz	I got it to compile, finally, but in an ugly way... running it is tricky also... let me show you...
2020-11-02 17:02:12	raiz	https://ttm.sh/dhp.diff
2020-11-02 17:02:25	raiz	running it requires altering LD_LIBRARY_PATH=
2020-11-02 17:02:37	raiz	it uses openssl from ports
2020-11-02 17:03:13	raiz	LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib/eopenssl11/ ./gmnisrv
2020-11-02 17:04:00	raiz	yeah, I know what you're thinking, don't merge this
2020-11-02 17:04:09	raiz	until I find a better way
2020-11-02 17:04:34	ddevault	it would be better to refactor out the one use of alloca
2020-11-02 17:04:50	raiz	I thought about that
2020-11-02 17:04:59	raiz	then I took a look at the code using it, and I changed my mind
2020-11-02 17:05:04	raiz	maybe some time later lol
2020-11-02 17:05:33	ddevault	you can just drop-in malloc/free
2020-11-02 17:06:24	raiz	I haven't gone through the code thoroughly, there's more of the code assuming the use of alloca, I'm not sure if dropping in malloc/free would work without side effects
2020-11-02 17:07:18	raiz	I'll look into it later, we don't want memory leaks
2020-11-02 17:07:23	raiz	I gotta go soon
2020-11-02 17:07:26	ddevault	np
2020-11-02 17:07:54	raiz	I'll email you any updates if I don't find you here
2020-11-02 17:13:07	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 17:16:13	acdw	ddevault: i'm looking b/w gmnisrv and molly-brown, and i like how molly does .mollyhead for indexes -- think that's possible for gmnisrv? slash could i cgi an index ? ___ i guess i could rewrite the path huh
2020-11-02 17:16:24	acdw	I haven't done a ton w/ servers so if that's a dumb question that's why
2020-11-02 17:21:39	ddevault	how does .mollyhead work, acdw?
2020-11-02 17:22:47	acdw	its contents are displayed before the auto-generated index in directories without an index.gmi
2020-11-02 17:23:07	acdw	(I was going to say you could look @ my website, but it's only set up at my house ;-;)
2020-11-02 17:23:46	ddevault	yeah I don't want to do something like that
2020-11-02 17:23:47	acdw	so like: "20 text/gemini", $(cat .mollyhead), $(ls *.gmi) <<<< is kind of the thing
2020-11-02 17:23:50	acdw	fair enough
2020-11-02 17:23:52	ddevault	you could accomplish it with a CGI script, yeah
2020-11-02 17:23:59	acdw	and path re-writing?
2020-11-02 17:24:08	ddevault	nah, just an index-specific route
2020-11-02 17:24:09	acdw	that isn't the same as a redirect, right>
2020-11-02 17:24:11	acdw	oh okay
2020-11-02 17:24:22	ddevault	[example.org=/foo]cgi=on index=.index.sh
2020-11-02 17:24:36	ddevault	[example.org:/foo]root=/srv/gemini
2020-11-02 17:24:40	ddevault	add that root to the first one too
2020-11-02 17:24:52	ddevault	note: = routing is not implemented, but it'd be a trivial patch if you want this
2020-11-02 17:25:30	acdw	oh dope! what do you mean by = routing?
2020-11-02 17:25:59	ddevault	: routes based on the path prefix
2020-11-02 17:26:07	ddevault	:/foo would match /foo, /foo/bar.txt, /foo/bar/baz.txt, etc
2020-11-02 17:26:16	ddevault	= routes (are supposed) to only route on an exact match
2020-11-02 17:26:27	ddevault	=/foo would ONLY route for /foo, not /foo/bar.txt or /foo/bar/baz.txt
2020-11-02 17:26:51	acdw	OH okay :) yeah that'd be cool ... you don't want it implemented? i.e., i'd fork your project?
2020-11-02 17:27:11	ddevault	I do want it implemented
2020-11-02 17:27:17	ddevault	if you write a patch send it upstream
2020-11-02 17:27:27	ddevault	I don't really accept feature requests, I accept patches
2020-11-02 17:27:32	acdw	right right
2020-11-02 17:27:54	acdw	okay i don't know c very well, but i can take a look -- if it's trivial i can prolly figure it out
2020-11-02 17:48:35	kiedtl	is there a tool to convert HTML to gemtext?
2020-11-02 17:49:06	ddevault	don't convert HTML to gemtext
2020-11-02 17:49:17	ddevault	do it by hand and editorial discretion to fit the content into the medium smoothly
2020-11-02 17:49:24	ddevault	otherwise you'll just produce crappy gemtext as a second-class citizen
2020-11-02 17:49:30	acdw	kiedtl: i think there's a few actually
2020-11-02 17:50:45	acdw	tho i agree, it'd be easier to go gemtext => html than the other way round
2020-11-02 17:52:22	acdw	kiedtl: i think sean @ conman.org does that -- you could email and ask?
2020-11-02 17:53:08	kiedtl	I'm not sure i understand... you mean that sean will convert any HTML I send to him...?
2020-11-02 17:54:03	acdw	no, he probably has a method he uses to convert it
2020-11-02 17:54:07	acdw	so you could as what he does
2020-11-02 17:54:15	kiedtl	lol. that's what I thought.
2020-11-02 17:54:19	★	kiedtl looks
2020-11-02 17:54:22	acdw	haha
2020-11-02 17:54:38	acdw	there are other tools i've heard of too --- maybe search the mailing list? google is not v gemini-friendly
2020-11-02 17:54:51	acdw	(nor duckduckgo, i say before yall lambaste me)
2020-11-02 17:54:55	kiedtl	is there a way to search the ML archives?
2020-11-02 17:55:31	acdw	uhhhhh
2020-11-02 17:55:44	kiedtl	doesn't look like there is >.>
2020-11-02 17:56:15	acdw	try a site:https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/ thing
2020-11-02 17:56:20	acdw	in a search engine
2020-11-02 17:57:18	kiedtl	oh, forgot about that.
2020-11-02 17:57:38	acdw	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/002219.html <- this msg might help
2020-11-02 17:57:41		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-02 18:00:58		Seirdy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-02 18:16:56	▬▬▶	Seirdy has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 18:23:13		Seirdy has quit (quit: exiting 3.0-rc1)
2020-11-02 18:24:33	▬▬▶	Seirdy has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 18:35:42	kiedtl	this seems to work really well: https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi-cli
2020-11-02 18:39:43		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-02 19:01:33		insep_ has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-02 19:17:49		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-02 19:18:58	kiedtl	Should gemini->web proxys render preformatted blocks as simple <pre> elements or as a "full-blows" code block -- ie, one with a dark background and a scrollbar?
2020-11-02 19:23:20	admicos	i personally would expect preformatted blocks to show up at least full height. if someone uses them for some ascii art for example, having a scrollbar next to it wouldn't exactly be nice
2020-11-02 19:27:48	ew0k	I think it would be horizontal scrollbar, though, wouldn’t it?
2020-11-02 19:30:11	admicos	oh yeah that would be harder to deal with w/o a scrollbar, wouldn't it
2020-11-02 19:31:52	aravk	maybe it should be depending upon any info given in the preformatted block tag thing
2020-11-02 19:32:23	aravk	e.g. if it's the name of a recognized programming language yeah make it look like a code block (and highlight syntax optionally)
2020-11-02 19:32:54	aravk	otherwise just show the full thing (but a horizontal/vertical scrollbar may be needed if it's too big)
2020-11-02 19:33:43	@tomasino	or maybe it should show the alt text as a button and then reveal the contents in a modal. 
2020-11-02 19:33:49	@tomasino	not really a suggestion
2020-11-02 19:33:51	@tomasino	it's a client decision
2020-11-02 19:33:56	@tomasino	do whatever
2020-11-02 19:34:01	@tomasino	make more varieties
2020-11-02 19:34:36	kiedtl	Looks like I was under the illusion that the client should do absolutely nothing except turn off formatting for those blocks (i.e., show no scrollbars, button with modals, whatever)
2020-11-02 19:35:15	@tomasino	that's a valid client too
2020-11-02 19:35:37		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-02 19:35:53	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 19:36:08	kiedtl	s/should/must/
2020-11-02 19:37:13	admicos	unlike html, the client is the one responsible for look and feel in gemini
2020-11-02 19:37:19	admicos	do whatever feels like the correct choice
2020-11-02 19:51:52	▬▬▶	insep has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 20:15:51	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 20:16:50	acdw	~you do you~ <- gemini motto
2020-11-02 20:17:43	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 20:17:49		kiedtl has left #gemini ("This, too, will pass.")
2020-11-02 20:17:55	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 20:43:06	khuxkm	so earlier somebody (I think it was the Dioscuri person) was talking about a server that can take a JSON body with an operator, left and right operands, and do the math and return a result?
2020-11-02 20:43:19	khuxkm	well I just did that with CGI in Gemini gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/math.gmi
2020-11-02 20:43:42	khuxkm	I know I'm missing the point but I just wanted to show that it is in fact possible via Gemini as it sits right now
2020-11-02 20:44:12	@tomasino	gemini calculator?
2020-11-02 20:44:21	khuxkm	kinda?
2020-11-02 20:44:24	@tomasino	just pass the string to bc and return?
2020-11-02 20:44:30	khuxkm	no it does Python stuff
2020-11-02 20:44:39	khuxkm	because it's just a proof of concept
2020-11-02 20:44:39	@tomasino	fancy!
2020-11-02 20:45:06	@tomasino	how about a +1 function. You give it a number and it gives you back that number +1
2020-11-02 20:45:10	@tomasino	super useful
2020-11-02 20:46:30	acdw	that'd be dope
2020-11-02 20:46:41	acdw	gemini://example.com/+1?6
2020-11-02 20:46:52	@tomasino	oooh, a + in the URL
2020-11-02 20:46:53	@tomasino	fancy
2020-11-02 20:47:12	khuxkm	gimme a second
2020-11-02 20:47:19	@tomasino	you wanna take a query param or just have it hitcha with a input query?
2020-11-02 20:47:30	acdw	ah shit, invalid json
2020-11-02 20:47:40	acdw	tomasino: both -- that's how gemini works
2020-11-02 20:47:45	@tomasino	oh, good
2020-11-02 20:47:46	khuxkm	it'll probably be more like gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/+1/?6
2020-11-02 20:47:56	acdw	that's okay ... i guess :{P
2020-11-02 20:48:05	@tomasino	greatest gemini page yet
2020-11-02 20:48:21	acdw	there should also be a -1
2020-11-02 20:48:29	@tomasino	now you're just getting crazy
2020-11-02 20:49:18	khuxkm	why not have a -1 too?
2020-11-02 20:49:37	khuxkm	just gimme a sec, I'm doing this on my phone
2020-11-02 20:50:13	acdw	wait, hear me out ..... a +2
2020-11-02 20:50:15	acdw	!?!?!?!??!?
2020-11-02 20:52:25	@tomasino	i don't even know who you are anymore
2020-11-02 20:52:45	acdw	i lost em
2020-11-02 20:52:51	acdw	i flew too close to the sun
2020-11-02 20:55:46	khuxkm	sorry was too busy typing
2020-11-02 20:56:27	khuxkm	right now I'm having the issue that tilde.team's gemini server apparently doesn't recognize +1 as a folder name
2020-11-02 20:57:30	acdw	poop
2020-11-02 20:57:33	acdw	plus1?
2020-11-02 20:57:43	acdw	1+ maybe?
2020-11-02 20:57:48	acdw	emacs-style
2020-11-02 20:57:59	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 20:58:01	khuxkm	nah, I just went with `plus_one`
2020-11-02 20:58:13	acdw	haah
2020-11-02 20:58:16	khuxkm	wait
2020-11-02 20:58:45	khuxkm	HAH
2020-11-02 20:58:55	khuxkm	AV-98's path parsing is broken
2020-11-02 20:59:00	acdw	GASP
2020-11-02 20:59:10	khuxkm	either that or the server's path parsing, but I somehow doubt that
2020-11-02 20:59:28	khuxkm	it treats the plus sign... AS A SPACE!
2020-11-02 20:59:32	acdw	:O
2020-11-02 20:59:35	acdw	the horror
2020-11-02 21:00:14	admicos	won't someone think of the mathematicians
2020-11-02 21:00:37	acdw	n
2020-11-02 21:00:58		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-02 21:01:27	khuxkm	>Spaces in gemini URIs should be encoded as %20, not +.
2020-11-02 21:02:39	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 21:02:52	acdw	truth
2020-11-02 21:03:08	▬▬▶	khuxkm|lounge has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 21:04:29	khuxkm	that's from the spec though
2020-11-02 21:04:38	acdw	right, so double truth
2020-11-02 21:06:13	@tomasino	wait, underscores in URLS?
2020-11-02 21:06:14	@tomasino	ugh
2020-11-02 21:06:16	@tomasino	terrible
2020-11-02 21:06:24	@tomasino	:)
2020-11-02 21:10:27	khuxkm	I just verified that it is, in fact, on the client side
2020-11-02 21:10:57	acdw	aw
2020-11-02 21:13:41	★	khuxkm preps pull request to AV-98
2020-11-02 21:14:07		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-02 21:15:01	acdw	noice
2020-11-02 21:15:11	kayw	i really need to finish my client :(
2020-11-02 21:15:54	acdw	me toooooooo
2020-11-02 21:18:59	makeworld	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/makeworld.gq/gus-graph/graph.png?raw=1
2020-11-02 21:19:01	makeworld	Eyy
2020-11-02 21:19:37	makeworld	GUS has finished indexing and geminispace has really grown
2020-11-02 21:20:05	acdw	uhh what happened b/w 2020-09-20 and now?
2020-11-02 21:20:08	acdw	lots more pages
2020-11-02 21:20:24	makeworld	GUS didn't index for a while
2020-11-02 21:20:28	makeworld	So it looks like a large jump
2020-11-02 21:20:38	acdw	OH okay
2020-11-02 21:20:44	kayw	woah
2020-11-02 21:20:48	kayw	yeah that's super cool
2020-11-02 21:21:05	kayw	i wonder when I first spun up my gemini server
2020-11-02 21:21:17	kayw	would be cool if gus.guru could give that information
2020-11-02 21:22:25	kayw	oh right
2020-11-02 21:22:39	kayw	i announced it on the mailing list, so some time around June 5th
2020-11-02 21:22:58	acdw	lol
2020-11-02 21:27:19	raiz	ddevault: there's no way of running applications compiled against openssl11 from ports without having to manually set LD_LIBRARY_PATH, the unfortunate, but not a big deal, the tricky part is having LD_LIBRARY_PATH specified in the rc script initializing gmnisrv which I haven't figured out yet (if it's even possible). Another thing to consider is when compiling gmnisrv on OpenBSD
2020-11-02 21:27:19	raiz	you'd have to specify --with-mimedb=/usr/share/misc/mime.types for it work. at this stage, in my opinion, we could theoratically run gmnisrv on OpenBSD, but not in a clean way with so many workarounds, it's too much work to get it running smoothly on OpenBSD that I'm not interested in doing and I assume you aren't either. So here's what I ended up with anyway:
2020-11-02 21:27:20	raiz	https://ttm.sh/dhk.diff
2020-11-02 21:27:54	ddevault	helping with the BearSSL port would probably be your wisest move here
2020-11-02 21:28:17	raiz	haven't looked at bearssl
2020-11-02 21:28:21	★	raiz searches
2020-11-02 21:29:22	ddevault	specifying --with-mimedb is working as designed
2020-11-02 21:29:40	ddevault	the purpose of that is to smooth over differences between OSes like that
2020-11-02 21:31:46	raiz	hey, bearssl sounds promising
2020-11-02 21:31:55	raiz	although they state it is still in beta stage
2020-11-02 21:32:09	raiz	that explains why it isn't in ports yet
2020-11-02 21:32:22	raiz	(or maybe no one bothered writing a port)
2020-11-02 21:50:19	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 21:52:34	lukee	khuxkm and acdw: if you want to do arbitrary arithmetic in gemini, I feel obliged to share this gemini app with you
2020-11-02 21:52:42	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/calc.cgi?0
2020-11-02 21:53:35	★	lukee is still catching up with all the GUS updates. 
2020-11-02 21:53:43	acdw	:O
2020-11-02 21:53:44	acdw	awesome
2020-11-02 21:54:02	@tomasino	i mean, it's cool and all, but did you see +1? 
2020-11-02 21:54:06	@tomasino	that's where the science happens
2020-11-02 21:55:03	lukee	I see the code, but its not live?
2020-11-02 21:55:10	acdw	that's the REAL Magic
2020-11-02 21:55:16	acdw	gemini's first VC-backed SAAS
2020-11-02 21:55:21	★	lukee scratches his head
2020-11-02 21:55:39	lukee	So... the user provides the runtime?
2020-11-02 21:58:31	acdw	don't they always/
2020-11-02 21:59:02	lukee	my mentally executed C++ runtime is very slow
2020-11-02 21:59:46	lukee	I thought it would be a live app, so I have to execute the python in my head?!
2020-11-02 22:00:10	lukee	like debugging I suppose
2020-11-02 22:11:51		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-02 22:23:38	khuxkm	gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/+1/ apparently it was an issue with my server all along
2020-11-02 22:23:42	khuxkm	either way it's live now
2020-11-02 22:23:45	khuxkm	same with -1
2020-11-02 22:23:49	khuxkm	and now I'm gonna do +2
2020-11-02 22:24:28	khuxkm	+2 is now also live
2020-11-02 22:25:52	kiedtl	"Failed to get header: failed to read header: EOF" <- from amfora
2020-11-02 22:25:54	lukee	it doesnt work for me - you need to encode the + in the URL to %2B otherwise its not properly escaped
2020-11-02 22:26:03	kiedtl	ah
2020-11-02 22:26:05	~tiwesdaeg	lagrange and kristall do not like that link
2020-11-02 22:26:37	kiedtl	lukee: Now I get 50 not found errors
2020-11-02 22:27:05	lukee	well either way its not working properly yet I think
2020-11-02 22:27:12	khuxkm	tbf I don't use amfora
2020-11-02 22:27:24	khuxkm	the one time I tried it didn't seem to give an input prompt
2020-11-02 22:27:44	khuxkm	oh wait
2020-11-02 22:27:46	khuxkm	nvm
2020-11-02 22:27:47	kiedtl	bombadillo also gives a not found erorr
2020-11-02 22:27:49	lukee	I meant to say "+" ought to be encoded as "%2B" as far as gemini requires it. But it doesnt mean the server will handle it correctly
2020-11-02 22:27:50	kiedtl	*error
2020-11-02 22:27:52	khuxkm	...or
2020-11-02 22:28:04	khuxkm	it shouldn't need to be encoded
2020-11-02 22:28:09	khuxkm	but gimme a sec
2020-11-02 22:28:34	lukee	no it does need to be encoded to be a correct gemini percent encoded url, I think
2020-11-02 22:29:16	khuxkm	no
2020-11-02 22:29:25	khuxkm	pluses in gemini don't encode anything
2020-11-02 22:29:30	khuxkm	spaces are encoded as %20
2020-11-02 22:29:48	khuxkm	try it again
2020-11-02 22:29:56	khuxkm	the actual URL I posted, not the percent encoded one
2020-11-02 22:30:04	khuxkm	it should work now
2020-11-02 22:30:09	kiedtl	the plus one still does not work.
2020-11-02 22:30:32	lukee	+ is a reserved character, so it should be encoded https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent-encoding
2020-11-02 22:30:36	kiedtl	not to mention that I don't see a "+1" directory in /home/khuxkm
2020-11-02 22:30:44	kiedtl	just -1, 1, 2, and 5q
2020-11-02 22:30:48	khuxkm	JUST DO IT FFS
2020-11-02 22:30:52	khuxkm	I've taken care of it
2020-11-02 22:30:54	khuxkm	it should work
2020-11-02 22:30:59	kiedtl	yes, your majesty
2020-11-02 22:31:04	kiedtl	in any case, it doesn't work.
2020-11-02 22:31:05	khuxkm	listen to shia lebeouf and just do it
2020-11-02 22:31:33	khuxkm	then your client is broken, because requesting gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/+1/ works for me, even at the bare metal
2020-11-02 22:31:43	khuxkm	(the bare metal being Python ssl socket stuff)
2020-11-02 22:32:06	kiedtl	repeating "just do it" three times won't change the fact that the file isn't there and no client I try will find it.
2020-11-02 22:32:08	khuxkm	https://proxy.vulpes.one/gemini/tilde.team/~khuxkm/+1/
2020-11-02 22:32:13	khuxkm	it works
2020-11-02 22:32:14	khuxkm	see
2020-11-02 22:32:20	kiedtl	idk then
2020-11-02 22:32:29	khuxkm	what client are you using?
2020-11-02 22:32:34	kiedtl	amfora, gemini
2020-11-02 22:32:36	kiedtl	err
2020-11-02 22:32:40	kiedtl	I mean amfora, bombadillo
2020-11-02 22:33:07	khuxkm	well, AV-98 can find it, and I can request it from the ssl socket, so it must be something in amfora and bombadillo
2020-11-02 22:33:16	kiedtl	Let me try another client, then.
2020-11-02 22:33:25	lukee	if you put + into a well behaved client, it ought to encode it as %2B which is what the server will see
2020-11-02 22:33:32	khuxkm	no it shouldn't
2020-11-02 22:33:37	khuxkm	if you put in a +, it should send a plus
2020-11-02 22:33:51	lukee	no, that's a reserved character, so it ought to be encoded
2020-11-02 22:34:03	khuxkm	well if I wanted it encoded, I'd f***ing encode it
2020-11-02 22:34:08	khuxkm	it shouldn't be encoded
2020-11-02 22:34:17	lukee	ah well, whatever
2020-11-02 22:34:17	khuxkm	so if your client is encoding it, that's your problem
2020-11-02 22:34:30	★	khuxkm downloads amfora to test
2020-11-02 22:34:39	lukee	my client wont send an invalid url to your server
2020-11-02 22:35:27	khuxkm	but that's the thing
2020-11-02 22:35:33	khuxkm	it's not an invalid URL
2020-11-02 22:35:38	lukee	yes it is
2020-11-02 22:35:43	khuxkm	no it isn't
2020-11-02 22:35:51	khuxkm	the plus becomes a space, which is what I've accounted for
2020-11-02 22:35:55	khuxkm	the folder is ' 1'
2020-11-02 22:36:05	kiedtl	mhm
2020-11-02 22:36:05	lukee	you are thinking of web encoding, not percent encoding
2020-11-02 22:36:22	lukee	plus does not become a space in percent encoding
2020-11-02 22:36:37	khuxkm	well it does in a URL
2020-11-02 22:36:40	lukee	gemini does not use the same url encoding as the web
2020-11-02 22:36:41	khuxkm	which is what we're talking about
2020-11-02 22:37:02	khuxkm	>Resources hosted via Gemini are identified using URIs with the scheme "gemini". This scheme is syntactically compatible with the generic URI syntax defined in RFC 3986, but does not support all components of the generic syntax.
2020-11-02 22:37:09	kiedtl	reading tilde.team/~khuxkm/+1 with openssl return "31 gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/+1"
2020-11-02 22:37:27	kiedtl	but replacing the plus with a space works
2020-11-02 22:37:57	khuxkm	?
2020-11-02 22:38:03	kiedtl	?
2020-11-02 22:38:22	khuxkm	I'm telling you, I requested gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/+1/ on an SSL socket in Python and it got through
2020-11-02 22:38:44	kiedtl	I don't know about your ssl socket, but if I can't get it to work on three clients then something is wrong.
2020-11-02 22:38:47	lukee	see https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-2.1
2020-11-02 22:40:05	lukee	I say all this with empathy, as the first gemini server app I put up, I used the standard web encoding, which didnt work with the gemini clients
2020-11-02 22:40:19	lukee	then I fixed it
2020-11-02 22:40:32	khuxkm	well in that case, it's tilde.team's server that's at fault
2020-11-02 22:40:39	kiedtl	can confirm it works with AV-98 though.
2020-11-02 22:40:40	khuxkm	because it uses web encoding
2020-11-02 22:40:42	lukee	could be
2020-11-02 22:41:05	khuxkm	but yeah it works with AV-98 though
2020-11-02 22:42:38	lukee	the correct URL you should handle should be gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/%2B1
2020-11-02 22:43:01	lukee	(as far as I understand it)
2020-11-02 22:43:19	kiedtl	wait, is space encoded as %20?
2020-11-02 22:43:26	lukee	yes
2020-11-02 22:43:46	kiedtl	if the folder name is ' 1', one would expect %201 to work in the url, no? it doesn't.
2020-11-02 22:43:53	khuxkm	it doesn't? it should
2020-11-02 22:43:59	khuxkm	the folder name is literally ' 1'
2020-11-02 22:44:27	lukee	oh hang on, there is a crossed wire here. I thought you want to have an end point called "+1" not " 1"
2020-11-02 22:44:41	khuxkm	https://bpa.st/XBOQ
2020-11-02 22:44:41	kiedtl	He's trying to get the client to convert "+" to " "
2020-11-02 22:44:45	kiedtl	I think
2020-11-02 22:44:45	lukee	in that case it should be gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/%201
2020-11-02 22:44:55	khuxkm	no, I want +1
2020-11-02 22:45:11	lukee	so gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/%2B1
2020-11-02 22:45:13	khuxkm	but the server decodes +1 as ' 1' and not a literal '+1'
2020-11-02 22:45:42	lukee	thats a server accepting an invalid URL, but trying to do something with it
2020-11-02 22:45:57	khuxkm	>If a reserved character is found in a URI component and no delimiting role is known for that character, then it must be interpreted as representing the data octet corresponding to that character's encoding in US-ASCII.
2020-11-02 22:46:10	khuxkm	so actually it's a server incorrectly doing something with a valid url
2020-11-02 22:46:35	khuxkm	as the gemini scheme doesn't define a delimiting role for the reserved character '+'
2020-11-02 22:46:40	khuxkm	so I was right :P
2020-11-02 22:46:51	khuxkm	(that quote is from RFC 3986)
2020-11-02 22:47:31	lukee	well clients should send it as %2B and the server app should handle it as "+" as its a reserved character
2020-11-02 22:48:45	khuxkm	URI producing applications should percent-encode it, yes, but that isn't a must
2020-11-02 22:48:51	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 22:49:05	dacav	Hi.  As author of a little atom/rss client, I'm investigating the feasibility of adding gemini support to it.  Unfortunately I've never played around with TLS.  Is here anyone I can ask a couple of questions about it?
2020-11-02 22:49:27	khuxkm	the point is that the plus sign should be percent-encoded, but if it isn't percent-encoded it should be left alone
2020-11-02 22:49:41	khuxkm	dacav: depends, what language is your client written in
2020-11-02 22:49:48	dacav	khuxkm: plain C
2020-11-02 22:49:49	lukee	"URI producing applications should percent-encode data octets that
2020-11-02 22:49:49	lukee	   correspond to characters in the reserved set unless these characters
2020-11-02 22:49:49	lukee	   are specifically allowed by the URI scheme to represent data in that
2020-11-02 22:49:49	lukee	   component. "
2020-11-02 22:50:07	khuxkm	hmm, then I can't help you there dacav
2020-11-02 22:50:09	khuxkm	maybe someone else
2020-11-02 22:50:19	khuxkm	lukee: "should", not "must"
2020-11-02 22:50:21		nixo has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-02 22:50:29	dacav	thanks anywa khuxkm :)
2020-11-02 22:50:36	khuxkm	lukee: also my quote is immediately after that one
2020-11-02 22:52:16	lukee	my reading is that is the fall back, but clients should encode it
2020-11-02 22:52:23	khuxkm	yes, as I said:
2020-11-02 22:52:25	lukee	so most gemini clients will
2020-11-02 22:52:32	khuxkm	>URI producing applications should percent-encode it, yes, but that isn't a must
2020-11-02 22:52:43	khuxkm	the issue here lies in the fact that my server isn't doing that
2020-11-02 22:52:46	lukee	and so the server ought to handle the correctly encoded version
2020-11-02 22:53:08	khuxkm	the + decodes to space because it's using application/www-form-urlencoded encoding instead of URL percent encoding
2020-11-02 22:53:10	lukee	yes it seems so - could be the decoding library used by the server or the server app
2020-11-02 22:53:14	khuxkm	which is on the server
2020-11-02 22:53:20	lukee	makes sense
2020-11-02 22:53:38	khuxkm	I don't remember what server tilde.team uses
2020-11-02 22:54:09	khuxkm	it uses gemserv; just checked /etc/systemd/system
2020-11-02 22:55:01	khuxkm	so that's int80h's fault
2020-11-02 22:55:23	★	khuxkm clones code
2020-11-02 22:55:36	khuxkm	it's in rust, of course it is
2020-11-02 22:55:44	★	khuxkm deep dive
2020-11-02 22:55:55	@ben	i wonder if there are any new commits upstream
2020-11-02 22:57:36	khuxkm	https://docs.rs/url/2.1.1/url/ this is the crate it uses
2020-11-02 22:59:00	khuxkm	and afaict it doesn't mangle the result of url::Url::parse
2020-11-02 22:59:04	kevinsan	dacav: you should just ask your question, there are people here who could answer if they are around. In the meantime, here is some C code for a Gemini client that does TLS well https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gmni
2020-11-02 23:02:37	khuxkm	it says it follows the URL Standard (which is a WHATWG document) but it really doesn't
2020-11-02 23:03:26	khuxkm	https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#path-state this is the state taken when decoding the path
2020-11-02 23:04:04	khuxkm	note the lack of "if c is U+002B (+), append a space to url's path"
2020-11-02 23:05:41	makeworld	khuxkm: Wait, is Amfora doing something wrong
2020-11-02 23:06:14	khuxkm	uh
2020-11-02 23:06:32	khuxkm	i don't even know at this point
2020-11-02 23:06:35	khuxkm	this is too weird
2020-11-02 23:06:53	makeworld	Also, my 2 cents here is that gemini URLs are supposed to only use percent-encoding and not really use pluses for anything
2020-11-02 23:07:10	khuxkm	in this case, though, I'm using a plus as a plus
2020-11-02 23:07:23	makeworld	Which would then be encoded as %2B
2020-11-02 23:07:30	khuxkm	but basically there's this rust crate that claims to follow a standard but it actually does a lousy job at following that standard
2020-11-02 23:07:32	makeworld	There shouldn't be raw pluses sent over the wire
2020-11-02 23:07:38	makeworld	Aw damn :(
2020-11-02 23:07:52	makeworld	In Go this looks like: strings.ReplaceAll(url.PathEscape(query), "+", "%2B")
2020-11-02 23:07:54	khuxkm	well that's fine and dandy but the thing is, a raw plus sent over the wire should still technically work
2020-11-02 23:07:56	▬▬▶	acdw9 has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 23:08:00	khuxkm	it should
2020-11-02 23:08:08	khuxkm	that being said you should percent encode it anyways
2020-11-02 23:08:13	makeworld	Maybe it will work, but it's not something you're supposed to rely on
2020-11-02 23:08:14	makeworld	Yeah
2020-11-02 23:08:26	makeworld	Like it's "off spec"
2020-11-02 23:08:30	makeworld	My understanding anyway
2020-11-02 23:08:38	khuxkm	but the crate `url` in Rust does a lousy job of following the WHATWG URL Standard
2020-11-02 23:08:56	khuxkm	https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#path-state this is the state of the parser when decoding the path
2020-11-02 23:09:12	khuxkm	it doesn't say to do anything to a plus, but the crate turns the plus into a space anyways
2020-11-02 23:09:30	lukee	most URL libraries assume form encoded web context for encoding
2020-11-02 23:09:41	khuxkm	well this is *decoding*
2020-11-02 23:09:42	lukee	you have to search out the percent encoding ones. I know I did
2020-11-02 23:09:50	lukee	applies to both ends
2020-11-02 23:09:58	lukee	but yes
2020-11-02 23:10:40	khuxkm	well the point I'm trying to make is that this is parsing a URL and it therefore violates spec
2020-11-02 23:10:59	khuxkm	it may assume it's decoding form data but that's an incorrect assumption
2020-11-02 23:11:02	lukee	take it up with the dev
2020-11-02 23:11:55	khuxkm	i will >:)
2020-11-02 23:14:35		epoch has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-02 23:23:47	khuxkm	actually I wonder
2020-11-02 23:27:06	khuxkm	I don't even know what's going on here
2020-11-02 23:27:25	khuxkm	as far as I can tell there's nothing in here that should cause + to decode to 0x20
2020-11-02 23:29:26	acdw9	it's me khuxkm -- i'm sneaking into the Internet and changing all your +s to %20s
2020-11-02 23:30:02	jcowan	khuxkm: Thanks for doing that demo.  It doesn't seem to work for me (my client is Lagrange.
2020-11-02 23:30:41	jcowan	Of course, you're limited on input to the size of a URI.  
2020-11-02 23:32:39	khuxkm	jcowan: give me a second and I'll just move it to gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/plus_one/
2020-11-02 23:32:48	khuxkm	my tolerance for weird programming stuff is growing thin
2020-11-02 23:33:06	khuxkm	there, it's moved
2020-11-02 23:33:10	▬▬▶	anelki has joined #gemini
2020-11-02 23:33:35		anelki has left #gemini ("servus!")
2020-11-02 23:38:54	jcowan	Still not accessible with either Lagrange or openssl s_client
2020-11-02 23:49:47	makeworld	Neither with Amfora: Failed to get header: failed to read header: EOF.
2020-11-02 23:50:03	makeworld	Your header isn't complete or doesn't exist
2020-11-02 23:51:43		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-02 23:53:05	makeworld	khuxkm: You're not ending your header with \r\n, just \n
2020-11-02 23:53:37	makeworld	printf 'gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/plus_one/\r\n' | openssl s_client -quiet -connect tilde.team:1965 | hexdump -C
2020-11-03 00:00:45		acdw9 has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-03 00:02:17	▬▬▶	martijnbraam_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 00:02:17		martijnbraam has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-03 00:02:23	ℹ 	martijnbraam_ is now known as martijnbraam
2020-11-03 00:04:05		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-03 00:05:25	khuxkm	ah
2020-11-03 00:06:09	khuxkm	I find it weird that you can send text in the response body with just a \n but you need a \r
2020-11-03 00:06:12	khuxkm	in the header
2020-11-03 00:06:47	khuxkm	this explains why it works in AV-98; AV-98 just handles the "incorrect" header and gives the response
2020-11-03 00:07:58	khuxkm	try it now?
2020-11-03 00:14:02	khuxkm	...what the fuck
2020-11-03 00:14:19	khuxkm	https://git.sr.ht/~int80h/gemserv/tree/master/src/main.rs#L313
2020-11-03 00:14:29	khuxkm	which calls https://git.sr.ht/~int80h/gemserv/tree/master/src/util.rs#L3
2020-11-03 00:14:37	khuxkm	...so it's actually int80h's fault this whole time
2020-11-03 00:15:09	★	khuxkm is anger
2020-11-03 00:15:22	khuxkm	so it's not actually the url crate
2020-11-03 00:15:31	khuxkm	it's actually gemserv itself
2020-11-03 00:15:34	khuxkm	what the hell
2020-11-03 00:20:58	khuxkm	and int is currently deployed in .ok.us (gemini://80h.dev/~int/glog/2020-10-03-Army-What.gemini
2020-11-03 00:21:01	khuxkm	)
2020-11-03 00:28:28	makeworld	It works now
2020-11-03 00:28:52	makeworld	The /plus_one/ thing I mean
2020-11-03 00:28:56	khuxkm	yeah
2020-11-03 00:29:16	khuxkm	the /+1/ should also work because I specifically crafted the path to handle int's weird URL handling
2020-11-03 00:29:23	★	khuxkm checks
2020-11-03 00:29:56	khuxkm	huh
2020-11-03 00:29:58	makeworld	Amfora says not found
2020-11-03 00:29:59	khuxkm	apparently it doesn't
2020-11-03 00:30:02	khuxkm	wait
2020-11-03 00:30:12	khuxkm	one sec
2020-11-03 00:30:33	makeworld	Even when I enocode it myself
2020-11-03 00:30:41	khuxkm	it works now
2020-11-03 00:30:46	khuxkm	I mistyped
2020-11-03 00:31:06	khuxkm	well I didn't mistype; I moved the folder to plus_one
2020-11-03 00:31:14	khuxkm	so obviously it wouldn't be under the +1 in any case
2020-11-03 00:31:44	khuxkm	but after I moved it back, it works
2020-11-03 00:32:01	khuxkm	at least, on the version of Amfora on kiosk@gemini.circumlunar.space
2020-11-03 00:32:59	makeworld	Hmm it does
2020-11-03 00:33:08	makeworld	But not when I manually encode it
2020-11-03 00:34:06	khuxkm	well of course not; if you manually encode the plus then it would request a folder named +1
2020-11-03 00:34:17	khuxkm	let me try a soft symlink to make that work
2020-11-03 00:35:10	khuxkm	there, now it should work in both cases
2020-11-03 00:36:35	makeworld	Ok it does phew
2020-11-03 00:36:49	makeworld	I was worried Amfora was doing something weird at first
2020-11-03 00:36:57	khuxkm	nope, it's just gemserv being weird
2020-11-03 00:37:02	khuxkm	you're good :)
2020-11-03 00:39:20	makeworld	Great :)
2020-11-03 00:40:37	CoopDot	Maybe I should replace my gemserv...
2020-11-03 00:49:51	khuxkm	honestly I think gemserv just needs a little bit of fixing up
2020-11-03 00:50:00	khuxkm	as in, just fix that one bit and it's pretty good
2020-11-03 00:50:19	khuxkm	but with int80h being deployed, that's not likely to happen until circa Christmastime
2020-11-03 00:53:08	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 01:00:43		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-03 01:10:55		martijnbraam has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-03 01:34:49	kayw	they're deployed? i never knew that
2020-11-03 02:00:33	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 02:32:01	kiedtl	acdw: re gemini motto: or, in other words, "blame the client" ;)
2020-11-03 03:28:25	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 03:28:49	acdw	gemserv?
2020-11-03 03:29:09	acdw	also lol
2020-11-03 03:29:37	acdw	fun fact; gemserv is also https://www.gemserv.com/
2020-11-03 04:09:25		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-03 05:04:25	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 05:05:13	acdw	hmm gmnisrv's auto index doesn't have an ending newline...
2020-11-03 05:07:20	acdw	fyi ddevault
2020-11-03 05:13:20		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-03 05:22:57		praetorian has quit (quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-03 05:50:46	ew0k	Good morning!
2020-11-03 05:54:12	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 06:06:48		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-03 06:45:20	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 08:17:16	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 08:20:58		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-03 08:21:15	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 08:24:43	ew0k	kiedtl: was it you who wanted nested lists in gemini?
2020-11-03 08:42:37	dacav	kevinsan: thanks for the hint, I'll check out (https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gmni)
2020-11-03 08:44:25	dacav	It might be exactly what I need to get started :)
2020-11-03 08:45:32	ew0k	I just looked at Kristall, and was really intimidated. My own graphical gemini client will *never* be that awesome :D 
2020-11-03 08:45:44	ew0k	different design goals, though
2020-11-03 08:46:50	dacav	ew0k: what is your goal? :)
2020-11-03 08:49:03	ew0k	dacav: minimal dependencies, run on Raspbian's Pixel desktop (which I currently have no way to *test*, honestly), and.. uh... made by me :D 
2020-11-03 08:49:37	ew0k	It's basically an excuse to fiddle around with python, tkinter, and doodle some icons in inkscape :D 
2020-11-03 08:54:41	dacav	:) we *always* need excuses
2020-11-03 08:55:25	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 08:58:46	ew0k	indeed we do!
2020-11-03 12:07:53	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 12:16:43		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-03 12:18:19		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-03 12:36:53	ew0k	The latest mail on the ML says (jokingly) that gemini "allows embedding content through data URI magic"... what does that mean?
2020-11-03 12:45:33		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-11-03 12:51:35	aravk	ew0k: I suppose they're talking about the data: scheme that allows you to embed arbitrary base64-encoded data in the RUL
2020-11-03 12:51:39	aravk	s/RUL/URL/g
2020-11-03 12:52:14	kiedtl	ew0k: yeah. wild dreams.
2020-11-03 12:52:24	ew0k	well, that's a completely different scheme though... Sounds like that has nothing to do with gemini
2020-11-03 12:52:26	aravk	https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Basics_of_HTTP/Data_URIs
2020-11-03 12:52:43	ew0k	kiedtl: I thought of a specification change along those lines that I would support.
2020-11-03 12:52:52	kiedtl	oh?
2020-11-03 12:53:02	kiedtl	I mean, I also want tables and inline images ;P
2020-11-03 12:53:29	aravk	neither are happening though kiedtl
2020-11-03 12:53:40	aravk	some clients do allow inlining linked images
2020-11-03 12:53:49	aravk	and you can make tables by hand in preformatted spaces
2020-11-03 12:53:52	ew0k	kiedtl: basically, gmi is line-based. Nested lists imply hierarchies, which makes parsing difficult. The only exception we have in that area is ```, by necessity
2020-11-03 12:54:07	ew0k	All other lines can be parsed by just looking at the first two-three chars
2020-11-03 12:54:38	ew0k	But. We could have list items with *different indentation*
2020-11-03 12:54:53	ew0k	like, "*", " *" and "  *"
2020-11-03 12:55:09	ew0k	three indentation levels, but only three chars at the start to parse
2020-11-03 12:55:13	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 12:55:39	ew0k	I mean, if you wanna convert to html you still have to keep track of which nesting level you're at, but that ain't gemini's problem :D 
2020-11-03 12:56:19	ew0k	and it's not really breaking anything either; the only consequence for a browser that isn't implementing it yet is just that it looks like an ordinary line
2020-11-03 12:56:47	ew0k	so it adds two more line types, but doesn't really make anything more complex
2020-11-03 12:58:48	kiedtl	I have an idea for tables which would allow line-based parsing though
2020-11-03 12:59:54	kiedtl	aravk: why couldn't we have special syntax for inline images that was exactly like the syntax for links, but with a different prefix (e.g. "=@")? Then terminal clients could render it just like a normal link, while graphical clients could render the image itself
2020-11-03 13:04:58	aravk	because client's aren't supposed to make requests automatically anyways
2020-11-03 13:05:10	kiedtl	well darnit
2020-11-03 13:05:11	aravk	Gemini explicitly states that (pretty sure it's there verbatim in the spec)
2020-11-03 13:05:21	aravk	and it's not so much of an issue
2020-11-03 13:05:33	kiedtl	it's horrible UX to not have inline images, IMHO
2020-11-03 13:05:45	aravk	it's horrible UX *to you*
2020-11-03 13:05:56	aravk	most people here I think don't mind
2020-11-03 13:06:28	aravk	but if you want make a client that automatically fetches every link in a document, checks if it's an image, then inlines it
2020-11-03 13:06:51	aravk	what do you need inline images for anyways?
2020-11-03 13:07:21	aravk	and to you what's the difference in UX between an inline and non-inlined image?
2020-11-03 13:08:10	ew0k	kiedtl: not that my client has gotten far, but I intend to load images inline when users click links that return image MIME types
2020-11-03 13:09:04	ew0k	but as aravk says, I think the main thing here is that clients should not make requests unless users explicitly ask them to. (Which is my main argument with the favicon RFC, btw)
2020-11-03 13:09:47	aravk	the favicon RFC?
2020-11-03 13:10:10	ew0k	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/mozz.us/files/rfc_gemini_favicon.gmi <-- stumbled across it this morning
2020-11-03 13:10:42	ew0k	I think it was linked to from the Amfora github -- the latest Amfora version supports it, but it has to be enabled in config
2020-11-03 13:10:55	ew0k	which I think is the correct way to handle that, but
2020-11-03 13:10:58	ew0k	*btw
2020-11-03 13:11:50	insep	oh that would be pretty cool eyecandy
2020-11-03 13:12:15	ew0k	it would, but the suggestion is to fetch it pretty often
2020-11-03 13:12:38	kiedtl	aravk: it's kind of annoying to have to click a link to an image when the client could just display it automatically.
2020-11-03 13:12:52	ew0k	one hour or the duration of a session, whichever is shorter.
2020-11-03 13:13:00	ew0k	kiedtl: annoying to you, relieving to me :D 
2020-11-03 13:13:02	kiedtl	btw, what vim plugin do you all use for gemtext syn highlighting?
2020-11-03 13:13:20	kiedtl	ew0k: It could be disabled by default /shrug
2020-11-03 13:13:59	ew0k	one of the great appeals of gemini , imho, is the fact that it doesn't load anything I haven't asked it to
2020-11-03 13:14:01	aravk	kiedtl: well, how does the client know that the user wants to see the image
2020-11-03 13:14:12	kiedtl	a configuration option
2020-11-03 13:14:20	aravk	by supporting inline images, you're letting the server make the decision about this
2020-11-03 13:14:29	kiedtl	not the server, the content creator
2020-11-03 13:14:43	aravk	same thing in this context
2020-11-03 13:14:55	aravk	the point of gemini is to let the user/client decide how stuff should look
2020-11-03 13:14:59	kiedtl	mhm
2020-11-03 13:15:13	kiedtl	like HTML
2020-11-03 13:15:18	aravk	wat
2020-11-03 13:15:21	kiedtl	err, sort of like HTML
2020-11-03 13:15:23	aravk	*wat*
2020-11-03 13:15:27	kiedtl	yeah
2020-11-03 13:15:27	insep	[ew0k](https://matrix.to/#/@_xmpp_ew0k=2f=23gemini=40biboumi.tilde.team:matrix.org): i'm sure people will just cache that favicon, it's not like anyone will send favicon depending on whatever page you visited before sending request for favicon
2020-11-03 13:15:49	ew0k	and -- just like the favicon -- having it disabled by default might be the best idea, but a bunch of features like that will cause people to design their capsules with those features in mind. And eventually the default becomes "enabled" because most users enable it anyway, and then new users coming from the web won't even notice... and I think it's
2020-11-03 13:15:49	ew0k	a dangerous path to walk
2020-11-03 13:16:08	aravk	by supporting inline images and making it an opt-out instead of opt-in feature, you are preventing the user/client from making the decision (even though it's opt-out, it should be opt-in, and that's what gemini pulls off)
2020-11-03 13:17:02	kiedtl	no no
2020-11-03 13:17:12	kiedtl	I thought I was clear on inline images being opt-in
2020-11-03 13:17:21	aravk	well it already is opt-in
2020-11-03 13:17:30	aravk	clients can opt-in support for it
2020-11-03 13:17:32	ew0k	insep: probably.
2020-11-03 13:17:36	kiedtl	not really
2020-11-03 13:17:41	aravk	just by checking the mime result when the user clicks on a link
2020-11-03 13:18:05	aravk	don't forget the 'clients don't make extra requests' stance that gemini takens
2020-11-03 13:18:22	kiedtl	there should be some distinction between regular links and links the content creator thinks would be better displayed inline
2020-11-03 13:18:33	kiedtl	it's a suggestion to the client to display it inline, not a rule
2020-11-03 13:18:48	aravk	well, clients still won't display it inline automatically
2020-11-03 13:18:57	aravk	as per gemini's "no extra requests" rule
2020-11-03 13:18:58	kiedtl	not *automatically* yes
2020-11-03 13:19:06	aravk	then what's the difference?
2020-11-03 13:19:19	kiedtl	maybe a little button/keybind at the top the user could press to display all inline imgs?
2020-11-03 13:19:32	aravk	clients can already be configured to inline images found at links
2020-11-03 13:19:38	aravk	(or coded to do so)
2020-11-03 13:19:48	kiedtl	how does it know the link was meant to be displayed as an *inline* image?
2020-11-03 13:19:52	aravk	kiedtl: that's a client ui/ux issue, not a gemini one
2020-11-03 13:19:59	kiedtl	No
2020-11-03 13:20:21	kiedtl	IMHO there should be a distinction in gemtext between regular links and links to an image that could be displayed inline
2020-11-03 13:20:23	aravk	a simple test would be any extension in the link name
2020-11-03 13:20:40	aravk	which I think would hold up pretty well
2020-11-03 13:21:03	kiedtl	But then *all* images would be displayed
2020-11-03 13:21:04	aravk	in what scenario would someone *not* inline an image?
2020-11-03 13:21:06	jcowan	Extensions are generally about formats: most servers use them (unfortunately) to set MIME-types
2020-11-03 13:21:29	jcowan	"Click here to see an overly cute picture of the author's dog."
2020-11-03 13:21:38	kiedtl	aravk: if I was linking to a nice 198mb picturesque scenery?
2020-11-03 13:21:58	aravk	kiedtl: the client will notice how big it is and give up
2020-11-03 13:22:03	kiedtl	I mean idk
2020-11-03 13:22:05	aravk	could be configured to only looad images < 2mb
2020-11-03 13:22:25	kiedtl	guess I'm just bringing my HTML mentality in here and trying to warp gemini into my previous mindset, lol
2020-11-03 13:22:31	jcowan	Only if it knows about them.  Absent content-length, it would have to download the whole thing first.
2020-11-03 13:22:35	aravk	everyone does that, don't worry about it
2020-11-03 13:22:43	aravk	jcowan: it can also stop midway
2020-11-03 13:22:50	aravk	but yes, this is an argument for content-length
2020-11-03 13:22:50	jcowan	True.
2020-11-03 13:23:05	aravk	but many have mentioned how other protocols would be better suited to dealing with large transfers
2020-11-03 13:23:12	aravk	and I think I agree with that
2020-11-03 13:23:17	jcowan	Everyone wants *the* feature that really matters to them.  For me, it's inline emphasis.
2020-11-03 13:23:25	kiedtl	hehe
2020-11-03 13:23:30	aravk	content-length was my thing up till yesterday
2020-11-03 13:23:39	ew0k	jcowan: it would have to download all of it before deciding whether to inline or display otherwise anyway 🤷
2020-11-03 13:23:43	kiedtl	The feature that really matters to me is tables, lol.
2020-11-03 13:24:08	aravk	kiedtl: you can make them using preformatted text.  What extra support would you need?
2020-11-03 13:24:14	jcowan	You can emulate those with Unicode box drawing characters.
2020-11-03 13:24:22	aravk	yeah, or just | + -
2020-11-03 13:24:46	jcowan	The trouble with that is that "preformatted" does not necessarily imply "monowidth".
2020-11-03 13:25:09	aravk	I thought the spec does say so
2020-11-03 13:25:28	ew0k	and I care about resource consumption :) I'd *love* to have hashes so I don't need to fetch resources I already have cached
2020-11-03 13:25:34	aravk	> Preformatted text lines should be presented to the user in a "neutral", monowidth font without any alteration to whitespace or stylistic enhancements. 
2020-11-03 13:25:37	aravk	from the spec
2020-11-03 13:25:44	ew0k	but I get that it doesn't really belong in gemini
2020-11-03 13:25:44	jcowan	yes, it does, my bad
2020-11-03 13:26:10	aravk	np jcowan, we all learn something new
2020-11-03 13:26:12	ew0k	jcowan: to your defense it says "should", not "must" :)
2020-11-03 13:26:24	jcowan	It can hardly be *must* in a TUI client
2020-11-03 13:26:47	aravk	wait, why not?
2020-11-03 13:27:04	jcowan	Because TUI clients don't dictate the font they render in, the terminal settings do.
2020-11-03 13:27:47	aravk	true
2020-11-03 13:27:57	aravk	but I think all terminals render monowidth
2020-11-03 13:28:01	aravk	god, I hope so
2020-11-03 13:28:33	aravk	whoever sets a terminal to display in Comic Sans will burn one day
2020-11-03 13:28:59	ew0k	aravk: so a client that uses monowidth fonts, but switches font for every letter, is fine?
2020-11-03 13:29:00	ew0k	:D 
2020-11-03 13:29:33	ew0k	*terminal
2020-11-03 13:29:52	★	aravk crashes
2020-11-03 13:29:54	insep	[aravk](https://matrix.to/#/@_xmpp_aravk=2f=23gemini=40biboumi.tilde.team:matrix.org): i know one person who has comic sans globally enabled, they say it helps with dyslexia
2020-11-03 13:30:16	aravk	huh
2020-11-03 13:30:19	ew0k	insep: fair reason! 
2020-11-03 13:30:21	kiedtl	ASCII art is kind of a hack. For one thing, the tables can't be extracted into a machine readable format; for another thing, those tables can't be shrunk/grown depending on the screen size.
2020-11-03 13:30:22	admicos	i've heard that too
2020-11-03 13:30:35	jcowan	I just looked in ECMA-48, and there actually is a control sequence to specify the rendering font.  Whether any terminal supports it is a question.
2020-11-03 13:30:38	admicos	there are also fonts like opendyslexic that actually look semi-better
2020-11-03 13:30:50	ew0k	kiedtl: true
2020-11-03 13:30:59	aravk	kiedtl: it's going to be the same text size as all of your other text so why would you need to zoom in/out
2020-11-03 13:31:17	aravk	plus, properly formatted tables can definitely be extracted.  It's easier with Unicode box drawing chars though
2020-11-03 13:31:18	kiedtl	I'm not sure I understood you
2020-11-03 13:31:27	kiedtl	aravk:
2020-11-03 13:31:28	jcowan	ESC [ m ; n ,
2020-11-03 13:31:39	ew0k	kiedtl: link to a csv file?
2020-11-03 13:31:45	jcowan	where m and n are digits 0-7 representing the fonts the terminal knows about.
2020-11-03 13:31:52	kiedtl	Also, don't force me to read my tables in monowidth fonts.
2020-11-03 13:32:04	kiedtl	I'd like them to use variable width fonts, just like god intended.
2020-11-03 13:32:09	aravk	kiedtl: assuming that preformatted text renders at a reasonable size, why would you need to zoom in/out
2020-11-03 13:32:32	aravk	clients which can change font size will have their own settings for it and will re-render preformatted tables accordingly
2020-11-03 13:32:54	aravk	oh crap
2020-11-03 13:32:57	aravk	I see your  point
2020-11-03 13:33:01	jcowan	Of course you could render your table as an image, thus reducing the problem to the previous problem.
2020-11-03 13:33:02	aravk	you can't do line wrapping inside tables
2020-11-03 13:33:15	aravk	jcowan: amazingly helpful xD
2020-11-03 13:33:31	aravk	but a csv doesn't sound so bad
2020-11-03 13:33:52	kiedtl	yeah, I just couldn't understand what you were saying for a moment, aravk. I do now though
2020-11-03 13:34:09	kiedtl	Also, ASCII tables disobey the gemini rule of mixing presentation and content, no?
2020-11-03 13:34:17	aravk	I guess
2020-11-03 13:34:21	aravk	but so do other tables
2020-11-03 13:34:30	aravk	unless you've come up with some amazing new format kiedtl
2020-11-03 13:34:34	jcowan	Some content just *is* presentational, which is why it's in Unicode to start with.
2020-11-03 13:34:43	kiedtl	aravk: I'm trying /shrug
2020-11-03 13:35:02	kiedtl	pretty sure it'll won't make it into the spec though
2020-11-03 13:35:14	raiz	you can always use HTML with gemini
2020-11-03 13:35:21	kiedtl	eww
2020-11-03 13:35:25	raiz	just saying
2020-11-03 13:35:29	kiedtl	I may as well use HTTP then!
2020-11-03 13:35:50	raiz	you get the benefits of the simpler protocol
2020-11-03 13:36:08	raiz	still much better than adding tables to gemtext
2020-11-03 13:36:10	raiz	imo
2020-11-03 13:36:21	aravk	maybe maybe maybe raiz
2020-11-03 13:36:23	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 13:36:25	aravk	or just use csz
2020-11-03 13:36:28	aravk	*csv
2020-11-03 13:36:33	raiz	in gemtext?
2020-11-03 13:36:38	kiedtl	???
2020-11-03 13:36:39	aravk	no, as a separate file
2020-11-03 13:36:45	aravk	works well for large tables
2020-11-03 13:36:48	raiz	how would that work?
2020-11-03 13:36:57	aravk	link to it
2020-11-03 13:37:03	kiedtl	thanks, but I'd like my tables inline...
2020-11-03 13:37:07	raiz	then have a separate program process the table?
2020-11-03 13:37:14	aravk	ig raiz
2020-11-03 13:37:25	aravk	these are not completely thought-out plans
2020-11-03 13:37:33	raiz	that'd be awkward, yeah
2020-11-03 13:38:10	kiedtl	csv is terribly complex
2020-11-03 13:38:26	ew0k	what html tag would you guys use for preformatted text?
2020-11-03 13:38:42	kiedtl	like, what if one field contains a comma? would you escape it? goodness sake no, just quote the entire field! but what if the field contains a quote?...
2020-11-03 13:38:51	kiedtl	ew0k: wouldn't <pre> work?
2020-11-03 13:39:11	ew0k	kiedtl: escaping characters is a common problem
2020-11-03 13:39:46	raiz	I prefer TSV since tabs are less common
2020-11-03 13:39:50	kiedtl	my point is that csv does a spectacularily bad job of it
2020-11-03 13:40:03	raiz	but still suffers similar problems that CSV has, nothing is perfect
2020-11-03 13:40:06	ew0k	I wasn't aware of that. 
2020-11-03 13:40:13	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 13:40:36	ew0k	I mean... if ',' is a separator you only need to escape it as '\,' and '\' as '\\'
2020-11-03 13:40:44	ew0k	That should really be it
2020-11-03 13:40:49	kiedtl	that's not how the csv spec works IIRC
2020-11-03 13:40:51	raiz	yeah, no big deal
2020-11-03 13:40:58	raiz	oh
2020-11-03 13:41:00	raiz	no?
2020-11-03 13:41:04	ew0k	kiedtl: you're probably right. I haven't read the spec for years
2020-11-03 13:41:07	kiedtl	afaik you have to quote the entire field
2020-11-03 13:41:15	kiedtl	"field with comma,",blah,343
2020-11-03 13:41:16	aravk	what would a line-oriented way to present tables be?
2020-11-03 13:41:22	aravk	one that allowed for line wrapping etc.
2020-11-03 13:41:35	kiedtl	aravk: I'm still thinking out that, I'll be sure to show it here when I think I'm done :)
2020-11-03 13:41:49	kiedtl	but something similar to how scdoc does tables
2020-11-03 13:41:52	raiz	why not follow the HTML approach?
2020-11-03 13:42:05	aravk	yeah, do row by row column by column
2020-11-03 13:42:16	kiedtl	pretty much what I'm doing
2020-11-03 13:42:21	aravk	although that would add too much complexity anyways to be accepted
2020-11-03 13:42:29	kiedtl	oh well
2020-11-03 13:42:33	aravk	it has to be a backward-compatible change
2020-11-03 13:42:34	raiz	we can stop feature proposals
2020-11-03 13:42:45	raiz	its not adding true value tbh
2020-11-03 13:42:53	aravk	maybe wrap it in a preformatted thing using "```table"?
2020-11-03 13:43:06	raiz	^ that'd be the creative way
2020-11-03 13:43:23	raiz	or just use HTML, MIME types are there for a reason
2020-11-03 13:43:38	aravk	or, hear me out: text/table
2020-11-03 13:43:44	raiz	lol
2020-11-03 13:43:54	raiz	doesn't sound like a bad idea
2020-11-03 13:43:56	kiedtl	hell yeah
2020-11-03 13:43:57	raiz	.table file format?
2020-11-03 13:44:04	raiz	linked from gemini document?
2020-11-03 13:44:09	aravk	yep
2020-11-03 13:44:13	raiz	brilliant
2020-11-03 13:44:16	raiz	go for it
2020-11-03 13:44:17	aravk	we'll still have to design it tho
2020-11-03 13:44:26	aravk	and I want it to be simple af
2020-11-03 13:44:27	kiedtl	btw, do any of you know of a good gemtext syntax highlighting plugin for vim?
2020-11-03 13:44:34	raiz	just refine it to be globally accepted
2020-11-03 13:44:43	aravk	someone was talking about it recently kiedtl but I never did catch the URL
2020-11-03 13:45:14	kiedtl	hmm
2020-11-03 13:45:39	kiedtl	guess I'll take a stab at writing my own
2020-11-03 13:45:48	ew0k	hmmm... what about quote lines? What html tag would you use for that?
2020-11-03 13:45:57	kiedtl	<blockquote>?
2020-11-03 13:46:09	kiedtl	or just a <div> with some css styling?
2020-11-03 13:46:13	ew0k	oh! I'd completely forgotten that existed! Thanks!
2020-11-03 13:46:18	kiedtl	np!
2020-11-03 13:51:22	aravk	kiedtl: https://github.com/kconner/vim-syntax-gemtext
2020-11-03 13:51:24	aravk	found using GUS
2020-11-03 13:51:32	aravk	(searched for vim syntax gemtext or smth)
2020-11-03 13:54:33		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-03 13:55:40	▬▬▶	bie has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 13:59:43	aravk	the syntax thing works really well
2020-11-03 14:00:14		kiedtl has quit (quit: This, too, will pass.)
2020-11-03 14:00:37	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 14:01:05	kiedtl	ah, thanks aravk!
2020-11-03 14:01:48		rodolphoeck has quit (quit: Dun goofed...)
2020-11-03 14:03:32		kiedtl has quit (quit: This, too, will pass.)
2020-11-03 14:09:02	bie	huh, GUS is really slow for queries with no results
2020-11-03 14:09:21	@tomasino	is it lazy in results? stops once it gets X?
2020-11-03 14:10:07	bie	not sure... i just found out now when i tried searching for something in japanese and it took ~20 seconds
2020-11-03 14:10:38	bie	and a ~40 character long random ascii string took... a couple of minutes or so
2020-11-03 14:10:42	dacav	sorting unicode might be ineefficient... 
2020-11-03 14:10:55	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 14:11:23	dacav	(I've no idea really, sorry :D it just popped into my mind)
2020-11-03 14:11:33	bie	:D
2020-11-03 14:24:31	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 14:26:17	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 14:29:36	jcowan	I've done a bit of thinking about a truly semantic model for tables in XML.  The HTML and CALS models are just too presentational.
2020-11-03 14:30:38	aravk	the source code for an HTML table is pretty neat though
2020-11-03 14:31:05	aravk	group by rows, then by columns, and each one can be on its own line
2020-11-03 14:31:09	jcowan	Thing is, what if you are having trouble reading the table because it's too wide?  Easy, just swap rows and columns?  Not.
2020-11-03 14:31:28	aravk	hmm
2020-11-03 14:32:14		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-03 14:32:26	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 14:32:41	jcowan	Of course JS can do it, because it can do anything.  But the semantics of a table are something like this:  A table has N dimensions each of which has some number of possible values.  At any given time we can only display two of the dimensions, but we can do better if we have subdivided rows and columns with nested headers.
2020-11-03 14:33:42	jcowan	I have actually seen tables displayed like this, where there are these squares representing the dimensions and you drag one to a row and another to a column.
2020-11-03 14:35:01	aravk	nested headers?
2020-11-03 14:41:22		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-03 14:42:06	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 14:45:31		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-03 14:51:32	jcowan	https://handsontable.com/docs/8.1.0/demo-nested-headers.html
2020-11-03 14:51:41	jcowan	check out the table (an extreme case) about halfway down
2020-11-03 14:52:35	jcowan	the underlying multidimensional array is ragged, not perfectly rectangular
2020-11-03 14:56:29	aravk	it doesn't look so bad
2020-11-03 14:56:57	aravk	one sec, how big are the tables we want to format
2020-11-03 14:57:32	aravk	because if they're more than a few words then they may be better represented using something other than a table
2020-11-03 15:00:53	jcowan	A csv -> text table tool would be awesome
2020-11-03 15:01:41	jcowan	I'd guess that the majority of tables have numbers in them
2020-11-03 15:02:28	aravk	I'm pretty sure such a tool exists
2020-11-03 15:02:38	@tomasino	awk?
2020-11-03 15:02:46	aravk	^
2020-11-03 15:02:52	aravk	yeah but if most of the data is just numbers, even csv is feasible
2020-11-03 15:02:56	@tomasino	csvkit has a lot of good stuffs
2020-11-03 15:03:15	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles-minimal/blob/master/bin/csvcat
2020-11-03 15:03:23	@tomasino	try this on for size on your csv
2020-11-03 15:06:29	dacav	under debian, there's `csvtool`
2020-11-03 15:06:35	dacav	I'm using it in these days
2020-11-03 15:07:21	dacav	awk++ though
2020-11-03 15:14:11	jcowan	aravk: Unless the numbers are big enough to need separator commas or decimal point commas (depending on locale)
2020-11-03 15:15:29	jcowan	the hard part is handling the actual CSV format as opposed to the simplest cases only.
2020-11-03 15:17:13	jcowan	(technically there are multiple CSV formats, but RFC 4180 (modulo line delimiters) is pretty reasonable
2020-11-03 15:19:06	jcowan	the RFC insists on CRLF
2020-11-03 15:22:49	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 15:23:09	ℹ 	acdw is now known as team
2020-11-03 15:24:45	ℹ 	team is now known as adcdw
2020-11-03 15:24:48	ℹ 	adcdw is now known as acdw
2020-11-03 15:42:28	khuxkm	is it bad that gemini-diagnostics keeps crashing my server
2020-11-03 15:42:46	@tomasino	is your intent to crash your server?
2020-11-03 15:43:00	khuxkm	no
2020-11-03 15:43:06	@tomasino	ahh, yes. then bad
2020-11-03 15:43:32	khuxkm	>[RequestMissingCR] A request without a <CR> should timeout
2020-11-03 15:43:33	khuxkm	why is this
2020-11-03 15:44:22	khuxkm	I mean, I get that the URL is supposed to end with a CRLF
2020-11-03 15:50:21	▬▬▶	rodolphoeck has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 15:56:05	khuxkm	also what's this
2020-11-03 15:56:06	khuxkm	>[URLWrongPort] A URL with an incorrect port number should be rejected
2020-11-03 15:56:42	khuxkm	is there a wrong port?
2020-11-03 15:56:43	acdw	what are you looking at khuxkm?
2020-11-03 15:56:47	acdw	no?
2020-11-03 15:56:52	khuxkm	I'm running gemini-diagnostics on my server
2020-11-03 15:56:58	acdw	hmmmmm
2020-11-03 15:57:11	acdw	yeah, default is 1965 but like, it can be wahtev
2020-11-03 15:57:47	acdw	i swear to god gemini is so hard to search anything for
2020-11-03 15:58:50	acdw	also dang the ML is 🔥 today
2020-11-03 15:59:11	felix	In a good way or a bad way?
2020-11-03 15:59:40	khuxkm	so I fail IPv6Address (which is just nip.io not giving an IPv6 address for 7f000001.nip.io, ConcurrentConnections, HomepageRedirect, RequestMissingCR, URLSchemeMissing, URLAboveMaxSize, URLWrongPort, URLEmpty, URLRelative, URLInvalid, and URLDotEscape
2020-11-03 15:59:40	acdw	meh, in a lot of messages way
2020-11-03 15:59:47	khuxkm	how many of those do I need to care about
2020-11-03 15:59:54	khuxkm	obviously URLDotEscape is kinda important
2020-11-03 15:59:58	acdw	the content-size and hash discussion dpoesn't intrest me
2020-11-03 16:00:19	khuxkm	honestly I'm tired of it too
2020-11-03 16:03:36	▬▬▶	waweic has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:05:46	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:08:38	acdw	like,,,, why do we need content-length
2020-11-03 16:08:40	acdw	uhhhfffff
2020-11-03 16:08:43	acdw	also it's not there, so 
2020-11-03 16:08:46	acdw	it's not there
2020-11-03 16:20:47	admicos	radical idea: make tcp more reliable instead of checking content lengths and whatnot
2020-11-03 16:21:49	jcowan	TCP is actually extremely reliable provided the physical layer is reliable.  Most problems come from there.
2020-11-03 16:22:22	admicos	fair enough ig
2020-11-03 16:22:36		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-03 16:22:37	admicos	just making "the entire internet" a lot more reliable would be neat
2020-11-03 16:22:44	acdw	,grab admicos
2020-11-03 16:22:44	tildebot	[Quotes] Quote added
2020-11-03 16:22:45	acdw	lol
2020-11-03 16:22:46	admicos	my crappy internet would thank anyone who attempted that
2020-11-03 16:23:26	admicos	oo which lines did the bot grab
2020-11-03 16:23:28	admicos	now i wanna know
2020-11-03 16:24:05	acdw	,quote admicos
2020-11-03 16:24:05	tildebot	[Quotes] admicos: <admicos> just making "the entire internet" a lot more reliable would be neat
2020-11-03 16:24:08	acdw	,q admicos
2020-11-03 16:24:08	tildebot	[Quotes] admicos: <admicos> just making "the entire internet" a lot more reliable would be neat
2020-11-03 16:24:12	acdw	hm i guess that's it?
2020-11-03 16:28:23	ew0k	I wrote a thing
2020-11-03 16:28:30	acdw	okay what language should i write a custom gemini server in? I know bash pretty well
2020-11-03 16:28:32	ew0k	and then a thing avout the thing
2020-11-03 16:28:36	acdw	or i could do awk
2020-11-03 16:28:41	acdw	ew0k: yes?!
2020-11-03 16:28:48	admicos	pure sh
2020-11-03 16:29:02	admicos	s/pure/posix 
2020-11-03 16:29:04	acdw	hm okay, i'll try
2020-11-03 16:29:06	ew0k	acdw: I love bash, but writing a gemini server in it...?
2020-11-03 16:29:22	acdw	biggest questions admicos: How do i wrap it in ssl? Stunnel? How do i use?
2020-11-03 16:29:43	admicos	i assume some sort of socket helper would be necessary as posix sh doesn't do tcp like bash
2020-11-03 16:29:55	ew0k	gemini://tilde.team/~ew0k/gemini-tool-gmi2html.gmi
2020-11-03 16:30:15	ew0k	I hope there’s no typos in that link... typing on my phone now
2020-11-03 16:30:34	acdw	got it!
2020-11-03 16:30:47	acdw	nice :)
2020-11-03 16:30:55	ew0k	would openssl s_server work?
2020-11-03 16:30:59	acdw	maybe? 
2020-11-03 16:31:04	acdw	or ncat
2020-11-03 16:32:01	admicos	i'd assume you'd need openssl (or some other ssl impl) even for nc
2020-11-03 16:32:12	admicos	well, unless you're willing to implement ssl from scratch in sh
2020-11-03 16:32:13	acdw	yea? maybe... idk
2020-11-03 16:32:16	acdw	NO
2020-11-03 16:32:16	acdw	omg
2020-11-03 16:33:25		rodolphoeck has quit (quit: Dun goofed...)
2020-11-03 16:35:29	acdw	hmmm no i'm gonna do a server in awk
2020-11-03 16:35:32	acdw	posix awk maybe
2020-11-03 16:35:33	acdw	but awwk
2020-11-03 16:35:41	acdw	awk++
2020-11-03 16:36:01	acdw	maybe awk AND sh
2020-11-03 16:36:32		bacterio has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		klu has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		dkibi has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		doppler has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		sumpygump has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		xfnw has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		paulgorman has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		zdragon has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		flamwenco has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		Dr-WaSabi has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		paper__ has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		seisatsu has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		foxtober has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		englishm has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		swift has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		autumnova has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		zce has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		magni has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		kevinsan has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		khuxkm has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		tejr has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		khuxkm|lounge has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		mieum has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		kiedtl|ltbx has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		alex11 has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		insep has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		ben has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		easeout has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		jan6 has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		hannu has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		jcowan has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		mattx has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		omni has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:32		omse has quit (hub.tilde.chat team.tilde.chat)
2020-11-03 16:36:52	▬▬▶	klu has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:36:58	▬▬▶	flamwenco has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:39:09	▬▬▶	lovetocode999 has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:39:17		lovetocode999 has left #gemini
2020-11-03 16:39:33		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-03 16:40:12	▬▬▶	paper_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:40:25	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:40:25	▬▬▶	dkibi has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:40:29	▬▬▶	omni has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:40:39	▬▬▶	doppler has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:40:55	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:41:03	▬▬▶	seisatsu has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:41:49	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:09	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	magni has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	khuxkm has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	Dr-WaSabi has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	paulgorman has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	insep has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	easeout has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	zdragon has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	▬▬▶	xfnw has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:42:36	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by team.tilde.chat
2020-11-03 16:45:31	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:45:41	▬▬▶	hannu has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:51:10	▬▬▶	mattx has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:51:10	▬▬▶	zce has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 16:51:12	khuxkm	oh geez
2020-11-03 16:52:46	felix	You can say that again.
2020-11-03 16:56:22	khuxkm	oh geez
2020-11-03 16:56:49	felix	:D
2020-11-03 17:01:17	▬▬▶	autumnova has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 17:05:20	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 17:24:03	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 17:26:40		kiedtl has quit (quit: This, too, will pass.)
2020-11-03 17:27:06	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 17:31:23	▬▬▶	sumpygump has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 17:31:27	▬▬▶	swift has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 17:36:00		omse has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-03 17:37:30	▬▬▶	omse has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 17:39:47	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 17:39:55	acdw	oh geez
2020-11-03 17:40:02	acdw	okay i have a url splitting function in posix awk
2020-11-03 17:40:26	epoch	lemme poke at it.
2020-11-03 17:41:02	acdw	https://ttm.sh/ddG.awk
2020-11-03 17:42:24	acdw	if you run gs.awk, you can input different urls and see how it splts em
2020-11-03 17:42:35	acdw	i'm *pretty* sure it's POSIX
2020-11-03 17:47:15		kiedtl has quit (quit: This, too, shall pass.)
2020-11-03 17:50:20	epoch	try a URL with a // in the path, query string, or fragment ID, but without an authority otherwise
2020-11-03 17:50:38	epoch	like, a:?//
2020-11-03 17:53:48		makeworld has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-03 17:56:17	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 18:00:27	khuxkm	alright, after a round of coding, I now pass all but IPv6Address, ConcurrentConnections, RequestMissingCR, and URLWrongPort
2020-11-03 18:00:30	acdw	hm, so query should be '//'
2020-11-03 18:00:33	acdw	but it aint
2020-11-03 18:00:34	khuxkm	of those 4, which ones do I need to worry abot
2020-11-03 18:00:34	acdw	hmm
2020-11-03 18:00:58	acdw	khuxkm: I'm guessing ... concurrentconnections & request missing cr
2020-11-03 18:01:03	acdw	tho idk
2020-11-03 18:01:07	acdw	i haven't taken the test
2020-11-03 18:01:16	khuxkm	I mean, do I *need* to pass ConcurrentConnections?
2020-11-03 18:01:44	acdw	prolly a good idea -- i'm assuming it tests to see if you can handle more htan one person connecting at once?
2020-11-03 18:02:09	khuxkm	okay but I don't feel like doing it :P
2020-11-03 18:02:19	khuxkm	it's more of a PITA to handle more than one at the same time
2020-11-03 18:03:49	acdw	haha, well then don't worry about it
2020-11-03 18:09:11	khuxkm	gemserv also fails RequestMissingCR so nyeh :P
2020-11-03 18:09:34	khuxkm	IPv6Address is literally just nip.io not giving an AAAA record for an ipv4-based IP
2020-11-03 18:14:00	acdw	haha khuxkm, who cares then :P
2020-11-03 18:14:09	acdw	yeah -- the IPv6 isn't *as* important
2020-11-03 18:14:21	acdw	elpher tries that first, then if it times out it goes to IPv4, but who cares
2020-11-03 18:14:53	khuxkm	I don't get URLWrongPort
2020-11-03 18:15:04	khuxkm	you can run a gemini server on port 443
2020-11-03 18:15:16	khuxkm	you probably shouldn't but you can
2020-11-03 18:15:31	acdw	yeah, that's a dumb one imo
2020-11-03 18:15:39	acdw	epoch: I can't figure it out :((((
2020-11-03 18:30:21	khuxkm	so of the 4 I still fail, one is just the domain I'm using to test, one's a PITA to implement, one's something that gemserv also fails (and as such I really don't care), and the last one is one I disagree with
2020-11-03 18:30:25	khuxkm	so I'm fine with this
2020-11-03 18:30:54	acdw	epoch: got it https://ttm.sh/ddk.awk
2020-11-03 18:31:01	acdw	it was the start of screen
2020-11-03 18:31:07	acdw	s/screen/string
2020-11-03 18:31:24	acdw	thar ya go khuxkm
2020-11-03 18:31:28	acdw	sounds good to me
2020-11-03 18:36:00	acdw	hey, so a server doesn't need to know how to combine paths, right? just the client
2020-11-03 18:38:11	khuxkm	hmm
2020-11-03 18:38:42	khuxkm	now that I look at it, URLWrongPort is supposed to test that the server doesn't proxy a request to a port other than the one it's on
2020-11-03 18:39:23	khuxkm	although there's an issue with the diagnostic: if the server is hosted on port 443 and you test it, it'll fail the test
2020-11-03 18:41:27	acdw	oh that might be important tho
2020-11-03 18:43:41	acdw	RE: spec, I think in (2), the "If the scheme of the URL is not specified, a scheme of gemini:// is implied." should be deleetd
2020-11-03 18:43:41	khuxkm	yeah so I'm gonna try and pass that
2020-11-03 18:43:47	khuxkm	it's poorly stated though
2020-11-03 18:44:37	acdw	si
2020-11-03 18:44:40	acdw	yo agree
2020-11-03 18:54:17	omni	was anyone here running typed-hole.org and, specifically, the lobste.rs mirror? words in comments are chopped and letters missing
2020-11-03 18:55:31	omni	where's the source for that? I have a vague memory I was handed an url to the git repo and checked it out, but now I can't seem to find it
2020-11-03 19:01:20	ℹ 	acdw is now known as bingobot
2020-11-03 19:01:29	ℹ 	bingobot is now known as acdw
2020-11-03 19:05:30	omni	nevermind I found it
2020-11-03 19:06:03	acdw	nice!
2020-11-03 19:06:34	omni	https://github.com/julienXX/gophsters
2020-11-03 19:06:40	omni	julienxx: hi!
2020-11-03 19:07:01		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-03 19:07:25	acdw	oh nice
2020-11-03 19:07:54	omni	here's the lobste.rs mirror for those who haven't found it gemini://typed-hole.org/lobsters/lobsters.gemini
2020-11-03 19:10:22		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-03 19:10:48		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-03 19:19:21		jan6 has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-03 19:19:21	▬▬▶	jan6 has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 19:19:34	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 19:33:47	omni	when I run it myself I cannot find any chopped words in comments in current threads
2020-11-03 19:34:32	omni	is typed-hole.org running an older version or have I there sumbled on deeper threads?
2020-11-03 19:39:38	▬▬▶	khuxkm|lounge has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 19:39:54		khuxkm|lounge has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-03 19:39:54	▬▬▶	khuxkm|lounge has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 19:46:39	khuxkm|lounge	>RE: spec, I think in (2), the "If the scheme of the URL is not specified, a scheme of gemini:// is implied." should be deleetd
2020-11-03 19:46:50	khuxkm|lounge	acdw: care to elaborate?
2020-11-03 20:12:37	▬▬▶	nristen has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 20:19:31	makeworld	Yeah, what's wrong with that?
2020-11-03 20:31:58	▬▬▶	kernel_pancake has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 20:51:29	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 20:57:49	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 21:16:34	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 21:18:23	@julienxx	Hi omni!
2020-11-03 21:19:43	@julienxx	It’s possible I’m running an older version of my software, I’ll check that out :)
2020-11-03 21:25:37	jcowan	It copies a misfeature of HTTP client software
2020-11-03 21:26:01	jcowan	It should be moved to the recommendations as something client-side only
2020-11-03 21:55:23		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-03 22:06:33		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-03 22:31:03		raiz has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in DroneBL. Please visit https://dronebl.org/lookup.do?ip=159.69.146.152 for more information.)
2020-11-03 22:31:03		dacav has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in DroneBL. Please visit https://dronebl.org/lookup.do?ip=159.69.146.152 for more information.)
2020-11-03 22:31:03		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Z-lined: You are listed in DroneBL. Please visit https://dronebl.org/lookup.do?ip=159.69.146.152 for more information.)
2020-11-03 22:37:15	kiedtl	yay DroneBL
2020-11-03 22:39:11	xfnw	that better not have been jess lol
2020-11-03 22:43:18	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 22:49:37	@tomasino	um...
2020-11-03 22:50:12	@tomasino	tilde.institute just got wholesale added to droneBL?
2020-11-03 22:50:13	@tomasino	od dear
2020-11-03 22:51:03	kiedtl	tilde.institute, eh? I wonder who's been portscanning over there...
2020-11-03 22:59:39	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 23:00:00	acdw	Hey everyone!   Sorry I left for so long
2020-11-03 23:01:04	acdw	khuxkm|lounge, makeworld: I think that little sentence is problematic b/c there's been multiple people on the ML and elswehere that have expressed confusion over a URL like "example.com/foo", because the URL spec says that is only a path
2020-11-03 23:01:34	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 23:01:35	acdw	If nothing else, the sentence should be changed from "gemini://" to "gemini", since neither the ":" nor the "//" are part of the scheme
2020-11-03 23:01:43	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 23:01:44	▬▬▶	dacav has joined #gemini
2020-11-03 23:02:12	acdw	and in fact, to actually link to an authority like "example.com", and not a path "example.com" on the current machine, you need to specify "//example.com"
2020-11-03 23:02:55	acdw	IN ADDITION, I think all the URL munging should be done by the client, and the server should only have to worry about figuring out absolute URLs with fully-qualified schemes
2020-11-03 23:03:01	acdw	so
2020-11-03 23:08:00		kernel_pancake has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-03 23:10:01		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-03 23:19:31	kevinsan	acdw: isn't that (client side munging) implied by the requirement that a fully-qualified absolute URL be used in the request?
2020-11-03 23:21:20	acdw	right!  Except for the weird stipulation that a client could send "//example.com", or possibly even (given the wording in the spec) "example.com", and the server's supposed to just ... know what that means?
2020-11-03 23:27:45	kevinsan	yes, i see what you mean. it's technically an error, but I wonder what the thinking was behind the general idea of a 'default scheme'
2020-11-03 23:28:25	acdw	prolly "this is gemini, we should assume gemini"
2020-11-03 23:28:51	kevinsan	thinking about it, i suppose gopher support had a part in the reasoning here
2020-11-03 23:29:17	acdw	oh?
2020-11-03 23:30:29	kevinsan	just reading the paragraph below regarding proxies, etc. makes me think that may have been why non-gemini protocols might have been in mind
2020-11-03 23:30:39	kevinsan	at all, i mean
2020-11-03 23:31:45	acdw	oh yeah, I think so --- but I think that's all the more reason to require a protocol
2020-11-03 23:58:39		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-04 00:25:57	omni	julienxx: hey! this may actually be client side. I see the described issues with ncgopher but not with kristall
2020-11-04 00:28:48	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 00:41:41		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-04 00:49:28	acdw	bah
2020-11-04 00:49:42	acdw	oh hey, i have a gemini question: what should I name my awk-powered gemini server?
2020-11-04 00:49:56	boringcactus	awkstronaut
2020-11-04 00:53:31	@tomasino	awkword
2020-11-04 00:58:28	acdw	oh lord
2020-11-04 00:59:40	@tomasino	yep, i'll be here all week
2020-11-04 00:59:59	@tomasino	you can find me over at #dadjokes
2020-11-04 01:12:14	kiedtl	or capcawk? idk
2020-11-04 01:12:25	acdw	capcawk omg omgomg
2020-11-04 01:21:53	kiedtl	lol, acdw seems excited ;P
2020-11-04 01:23:00	acdw	that's just hilariuos :P
2020-11-04 01:29:55		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-04 01:38:37	acdw	pparently the consteallation was known as al-Gawzaa in arabic .. maybe al-Gawkzaa?
2020-11-04 01:47:42	makeworld	https://git.sr.ht/~adnano/go-gemini is looking like a great library
2020-11-04 01:47:58	makeworld	Gotta double check the TOFU implementation and stuff, but it might replace my go-gemini library in Amfora
2020-11-04 01:48:35	raiz	isn't there conflict between two go-geminis?
2020-11-04 01:49:37	acdw	watch out there's gonna be a lawsuit
2020-11-04 01:50:13	raiz	hilarious stuff you only see in go land
2020-11-04 01:50:33	acdw	oh really? are there a lot of packages similarly named?
2020-11-04 01:50:49	makeworld	Lol
2020-11-04 01:50:50	raiz	search for any implementation of anything in go, you'll find many go-<thing>
2020-11-04 01:51:02	makeworld	raiz: There's no software conflict though
2020-11-04 01:51:13	makeworld	Like you can easily mix and match, there's no namespace issue I mean
2020-11-04 01:51:20	makeworld	Just confusing when talking about it
2020-11-04 01:51:21	raiz	of course
2020-11-04 01:51:29	acdw	oh that's funny
2020-11-04 01:51:30	makeworld	Anyway I will likely deprecate mine, we'll see
2020-11-04 01:51:44	acdw	i guess you need the fully qualified name, i.e. github.com/makeworld/go-gemini
2020-11-04 01:51:55	makeworld	Yeah that's how the go pkg manager works
2020-11-04 01:51:59	raiz	in go you can specify local namespace
2020-11-04 01:52:05	raiz	so you can have both included
2020-11-04 01:52:08	makeworld	Didn't get around to writing my blog post on that, I should
2020-11-04 01:52:19	makeworld	raiz: Idk what you mean
2020-11-04 01:52:46	raiz	gemini1 "github.com/someone1/go-gemini"
2020-11-04 01:52:56	raiz	gemini2 "github.com/someone2/go-gemini"
2020-11-04 01:53:04	makeworld	Oh for imports yeah
2020-11-04 01:53:21	makeworld	Like in Python: import abc as xyz
2020-11-04 01:53:32	acdw	uh
2020-11-04 01:53:34	acdw	huh
2020-11-04 01:55:01	raiz	I think the FAQ should be updated to answer all questions people ask about content length
2020-11-04 01:55:14	acdw	lol yes
2020-11-04 01:55:15	raiz	it seems people don't understand how to operate with such limitations
2020-11-04 01:55:33	acdw	shoul dbe, "Can we have Content-Length?" "No." "But --- " "No."
2020-11-04 01:55:34	raiz	80% of my inbox now is discussion about content-length
2020-11-04 01:56:07	raiz	sounds about right
2020-11-04 01:56:31	raiz	but I'd like to have documented examples of working around such limitations
2020-11-04 01:56:35	acdw	lol raiz
2020-11-04 01:56:38	acdw	yeah pretty much
2020-11-04 01:56:42	raiz	instead of repeating over and over
2020-11-04 01:56:47	bie	why do people want content length?
2020-11-04 01:56:58	acdw	what limitations are people running into that they need it?
2020-11-04 01:57:15	raiz	last post now, it seems that they want it for progress indicator when downloading large files
2020-11-04 01:58:06	raiz	its a meme at this point
2020-11-04 01:58:07	acdw	oh, ah. well that's the oe thing i can think is okay for it
2020-11-04 01:58:12	acdw	lol yes
2020-11-04 01:58:18	bie	that's easily solvable - just don't have a progress indicator
2020-11-04 01:58:20	acdw	like.... don't use gemini to download large files
2020-11-04 01:58:21	raiz	well progress bars can be worked around
2020-11-04 01:58:32	acdw	gemini is for text
2020-11-04 01:58:55	acdw	i mean, you can shove anything thru the pipe, but ... don't if you care about it getting to the other side
2020-11-04 01:59:00	raiz	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2020/003044.html
2020-11-04 01:59:20	raiz	boom, fixed, no need for content length
2020-11-04 01:59:42	acdw	+1
2020-11-04 02:00:27	raiz	they seemed to have ignored me though, lol
2020-11-04 02:00:52	bie	yeah, and thinking about it it's not as if http clients are super clever about what to do when download sizes don't match the provided content length
2020-11-04 02:02:28		zce has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-04 02:02:55	bie	btw, i've been serving some largeish files through gemini and it's... pretty ok?
2020-11-04 02:03:30	makeworld	Not surprised
2020-11-04 02:03:47	makeworld	TCP is reliable
2020-11-04 02:17:11	CommunistWolf	until it breaks
2020-11-04 02:30:15	makeworld	Shhh
2020-11-04 02:32:33		rmgr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-04 02:44:04		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-04 02:44:49	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 02:49:12	zdragon	usenet was for text but look what happened there
2020-11-04 02:49:23		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-04 02:49:27	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 02:51:27	acdw	lol
2020-11-04 02:53:43	zdragon	GeminiBins GMB instead of NZB.
2020-11-04 02:56:04	khuxkm	raiz: honestly I didn't even care about the content-length; my whole issue was with the idea of "oh it's done and over with and we can't add anything more so don't bother suggesting things bye"
2020-11-04 02:56:33	khuxkm	like, it's not too late to consider new features
2020-11-04 02:57:03	khuxkm	I think I'll type up a proposal for the file meta URL
2020-11-04 02:57:08		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-04 02:58:32	khuxkm	ooh, idea: a .well-known registry for gemini
2020-11-04 02:58:33	khuxkm	:P
2020-11-04 02:59:49	kayw	what would that entail?
2020-11-04 03:03:16	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 03:04:11	khuxkm	basically a list of URLs under /.well-known that mean certain things
2020-11-04 03:04:54	khuxkm	like how in HTTPS you might have https://tilde.zone/.well-known/webfinger
2020-11-04 03:04:59	khuxkm	which handles webfinger stuff
2020-11-04 03:06:03		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-04 03:06:08	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 03:06:23		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-04 03:06:23	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 03:07:22		rmgr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-04 03:13:30	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 03:15:22	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 03:27:23	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 04:00:01		avane has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-11-04 04:26:39	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 04:30:45	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 04:31:59	raiz	khuxkm: I'm not against content-length for the sake of being against it, I have suggested ways of working around the lack of it that are reasonable, until someone comes up with a compelling argument to why we'd need content length, I won't advocate for it.
2020-11-04 04:33:12	acdw	^
2020-11-04 04:34:13	raiz	also since I wasn't in the scene for a long time, I'm trying to catch up, I'm actually implementing everything in the protocol, including my own server and client/browser because I'm not very satisfied with the current implementations
2020-11-04 04:34:17	khuxkm	again, I wasn't even giving a stance on the content-length issue in particular
2020-11-04 04:34:48	khuxkm	but I digress
2020-11-04 04:35:37	raiz	I guess the further I get in my server implementation I'll get a feel of what's missing if there's anything missing
2020-11-04 04:37:01	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 04:37:54	raiz	speaking of which, I've just got my text/gemini to html converter working, I'm getting closer to being able to host my gemini blog :)
2020-11-04 04:38:11	raiz	I'm excited for that
2020-11-04 04:39:00	raiz	moar content for gemspace
2020-11-04 04:39:13	raiz	\o/
2020-11-04 04:39:23	khuxkm	more content is good :)
2020-11-04 04:39:50	raiz	soon™
2020-11-04 04:44:51	raiz	kristall still rocks btw
2020-11-04 04:59:22	acdw	nice
2020-11-04 05:15:17	alex11	screw it, i'll try the emacs flatpak so i can use elpher :P
2020-11-04 05:19:07		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-04 05:19:14	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 05:19:50	acdw	DO IT alex11 :)
2020-11-04 05:35:38	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 05:36:54	alex11	cool
2020-11-04 05:36:55	alex11	it works
2020-11-04 05:36:56	alex11	apparently
2020-11-04 05:37:07	alex11	now i just need to fucking get used to all the confusion of emacs
2020-11-04 05:41:54		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-04 05:49:05	insep	raiz: since you are using kristall, can you check if the following page displays properly on it? gemini://drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/man.sh/3/ioctl
2020-11-04 05:56:33	raiz	oh, no currently I'm using netcat on my openbsd box to browser gemspace, I just recently moved to debian stable from arch and there's no kristall in the repos, I'd have to compile it
2020-11-04 05:56:52	raiz	netcat never goes wrong though
2020-11-04 05:56:56	raiz	I can try with netcat
2020-11-04 05:57:02	raiz	sec...
2020-11-04 05:58:53	insep	netcat probably won't have problems handling this, but i'm afraid that kristall will
2020-11-04 05:59:13	raiz	well
2020-11-04 05:59:18	raiz	nc does have problems apparently
2020-11-04 05:59:28	raiz	the connection hangs and no content is served
2020-11-04 05:59:43	raiz	seems to be a server side issue I assume?
2020-11-04 06:02:25	insep	i also had problems with using gemini with netcat, i assume server wants ssl handshake but it never happens
2020-11-04 06:02:41	raiz	openbsd netcat has tls
2020-11-04 06:02:48	raiz	try that (if you have it in your repos)
2020-11-04 06:02:59	raiz	using -c and -Tnoverify
2020-11-04 06:04:35	insep	ok
2020-11-04 06:10:05	insep	invalid tos value noverify
2020-11-04 06:10:56	insep	raiz: try using https://raw.githubusercontent.com/aaronjanse/gcat/master/gcat if you have python installed
2020-11-04 06:11:12	raiz	what's that?
2020-11-04 06:11:30	khuxkm	yeah, Gemini is over TLS, not plain socket
2020-11-04 06:11:43	insep	simple gemini browser, just pass link as first argument
2020-11-04 06:12:38	insep	but what i really want is to someone test gemini://drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/man.sh/3/ioctl
2020-11-04 06:12:56	★	khuxkm test
2020-11-04 06:13:01	raiz	told you, the connection hangs on netcat, so it's not a client issue
2020-11-04 06:13:04	raiz	probably
2020-11-04 06:13:17	khuxkm	what am I supposed to be doing?
2020-11-04 06:13:23	khuxkm	it loads fine for me
2020-11-04 06:13:30	raiz	oh?
2020-11-04 06:13:34	★	raiz tries again
2020-11-04 06:13:48	khuxkm	remember you need to do TLS
2020-11-04 06:14:06	insep	uh, i mean that page on kristall
2020-11-04 06:14:17	raiz	khuxkm: the connection hangs
2020-11-04 06:14:41	khuxkm	what command are you using?
2020-11-04 06:15:08	raiz	nc -c -Tnoverify drewdevault.com 1965; then send the request
2020-11-04 06:15:12	raiz	oh wait
2020-11-04 06:15:20	raiz	I think I know what I did wrong
2020-11-04 06:15:23	raiz	hold on...
2020-11-04 06:15:45	raiz	Hey! it works now
2020-11-04 06:15:51	khuxkm	nice!
2020-11-04 06:16:20	raiz	many gemini server implementations accept singe \n in request, but seems that drew's implementation expects explicit \r\n
2020-11-04 06:16:36	raiz	writing request manually and hitting enter didn't work
2020-11-04 06:16:37	raiz	lol
2020-11-04 06:16:48	raiz	using printf to form request and piped it
2020-11-04 06:17:09	khuxkm	yeah that's a point of contention
2020-11-04 06:17:15	khuxkm	according to spec you need \r\n
2020-11-04 06:17:31	khuxkm	but most servers will accept just \n, including gemserv and Big Tiddy Gemini Server
2020-11-04 06:18:20	raiz	btw, this is nice, manpage browser in gemspace
2020-11-04 06:33:51	insep	oh huh, kristall doesn't have problems with that page
2020-11-04 06:34:36	★	insep goes to kristall's source code to figure out what i copied wrong
2020-11-04 06:39:31	▬▬▶	piotr has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:40:48	piotr	hi, I am browsing around and I was wondering how can I find genini servers? I cannot find any information on the recent mailing list. There is no "blogroll". So far, I only find addresses by an accident
2020-11-04 06:42:16	khuxkm	gemini://gus.guru seems like a good site
2020-11-04 06:42:24	insep	there's search engine and there's capcom
2020-11-04 06:42:59	insep	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/
2020-11-04 06:45:50		jns has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		southerntofu has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		scifi has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		avane has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		kevinsan has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		ddevault has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		obrut has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		dokuja has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		erin has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		nixo has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		martijn has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		lyntsune has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:50		superprower has quit (hub.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-04 06:45:56	▬▬▶	obrut has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:45:56	▬▬▶	erin has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:45:59	▬▬▶	lyntsune has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:46:05	▬▬▶	ddevault has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:46:06	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:46:07	▬▬▶	superprower has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:46:07	▬▬▶	martijn has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:46:10	▬▬▶	scifi has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:46:29	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:46:42	▬▬▶	dokuja has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:47:39		praetorian has quit (quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-11-04 06:48:00	▬▬▶	kevinsan has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 06:51:28	piotr	thanks
2020-11-04 07:01:54	ew0k	piotr: the previously mentioned CAPCOM and also Spacewalk (gemini://rawtext.club:1965/~sloum/spacewalk.gmi) are blogrolls of sorts
2020-11-04 08:47:30		piotr has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-04 09:36:17		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-04 10:05:58		nixo has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-04 10:12:24	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 10:40:00	▬▬▶	lanodan has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 11:50:02		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-04 11:53:35	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 12:00:58	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 12:11:55	lowkey	what openssl package do i need to build gmnisrv on ubuntu?
2020-11-04 12:12:38	lowkey	i already have the package 'openssl' installed
2020-11-04 12:13:05	djph	for compiling?  probably openssl-dev ?
2020-11-04 12:13:42	lowkey	but when running 'configure', I get "Checking for OpenSSL.....NOT FOUND"
2020-11-04 12:13:47	lowkey	ah, i'll try that
2020-11-04 12:14:38	lowkey	hmmm, no package called openssl-dev
2020-11-04 12:15:48	djph	hmm, maybe it's libopenssl-dev then ... maybe?  IDK, been ages since I've had to compile against openssl :|
2020-11-04 12:16:24	lowkey	There's indeed a libssl-dev and I installed it but I still get the same error
2020-11-04 12:16:28	lowkey	There's no libssl though
2020-11-04 12:16:53	raiz	libssl-dev and libcrypto-dev is what you're looking for
2020-11-04 12:17:15	raiz	and make sure you have pkg-config installed too
2020-11-04 12:17:20	lowkey	Ahh
2020-11-04 12:17:25	lowkey	Trying this out
2020-11-04 12:18:24	lowkey	that worked!
2020-11-04 12:18:26	lowkey	thanks a lot!
2020-11-04 12:18:41	raiz	cool
2020-11-04 12:19:24	lowkey	i've had this issue with another of sircmpwn's projects too
2020-11-04 12:19:32	lowkey	where when i run make install, the man page fails to install
2020-11-04 12:19:56	mieum	lowkey: do you have scdoc installed?
2020-11-04 12:20:13	lowkey	um, lemme check
2020-11-04 12:20:29	lowkey	yup, i do
2020-11-04 12:21:01	raiz	what project are  you referring to, can you link to the makefile of that project?
2020-11-04 12:21:20	mieum	where are you installing to? your home folder, or to /usr?
2020-11-04 12:22:28	lowkey	to /usr
2020-11-04 12:23:38	lowkey	i was talking about gmni, the gemini client
2020-11-04 12:23:57	lowkey	this is its makefile
2020-11-04 12:23:59	lowkey	https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gmni/tree/master/Makefile
2020-11-04 12:25:21	raiz	an error message might help too
2020-11-04 12:29:57		lowkey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-04 12:37:15	▬▬▶	low-key has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 12:38:06	low-key	Sorry, just got off my laptop.
2020-11-04 12:38:24	low-key	Wait, it was a tmux session on my vps
2020-11-04 12:38:27	low-key	Lemme grab it
2020-11-04 12:40:05	low-key	install: cannot stat 'doc/gmnisrv.1': No such file or directory
2020-11-04 12:40:25	low-key	Followed by make: *** [Makefile:43: install] Error 1
2020-11-04 12:49:09	dacav	ah yeah, it happened yesterday to me too :) It seems like there's some asciidoc->man generation step missing
2020-11-04 12:49:29	dacav	the remaining part of the installation worked anyway :)
2020-11-04 12:50:20	dacav	Btw, anyone knows if there's some plan for gemini support in libcurl?
2020-11-04 12:51:29	aravk	check the mailing list
2020-11-04 12:51:43	aravk	apparently there is a repo somewhere at least partially implementing it
2020-11-04 12:51:54	aravk	but that's the only progress that I've seen
2020-11-04 12:52:57	dacav	thanks aravk.  I started to look into some implementation detail (of gmni) yesterday... and to pinpoint how it works with respect to libssl...
2020-11-04 12:53:07	dacav	Damn, the openssl documentation is... uh...
2020-11-04 12:53:30	dacav	(I never looked at it, but it is far from being useful... wow)
2020-11-04 12:53:44	dacav	how do you libssl, seriously? :)
2020-11-04 12:54:03	dacav	Do you usually take examples from implementation, to make up for the lack of docs?
2020-11-04 12:55:49	aravk	man section 7ssl is pretty heplful
2020-11-04 12:55:56	aravk	once you get the hang of what it's trying to do
2020-11-04 12:56:08	low-key	Yeah, the rest of the installation does work fine
2020-11-04 12:56:40	aravk	I did take a shot at writing a gemini client, and I did use OpenSSL, and once you understand the basic architecture (what with BIO and stuff) it's actually straightforward
2020-11-04 12:56:43	dacav	aravk: true, that is somewhat helpful.  It says absolutely nothing on the error handling of course
2020-11-04 12:56:54	aravk	apparently it's a thread local error stack or smth
2020-11-04 12:57:05	aravk	try using man -K to search the 7ssl section
2020-11-04 12:57:10	dacav	I explored some examples, including gmni's code, just to realize that many simply don't error check
2020-11-04 12:57:40	aravk	seriously, why doesn't there exist a KISS SSL implementation that pulls things off uniformly and neatly?
2020-11-04 12:57:49	dacav	ikr?
2020-11-04 12:58:11	dacav	and possibly correctly too! Because I'm very horrified by the idea of buggy secure software
2020-11-04 12:58:11	aravk	funnily enough, all my c projects are on hold because c's so bad at handling basic stuff like strings
2020-11-04 12:58:52	aravk	write a language that is like c but improves 10% of it -> write a standard library that's actually useful -> write a KISS SSL implementation -> write a gemini client
2020-11-04 12:59:34	dacav	aravk: never getting to an end of it :)
2020-11-04 12:59:57	dacav	aravk: have you tried using stuff like uthash? It has some string facility too
2020-11-04 13:00:09	dacav	I use uthash for my C projects... pretty much every time.
2020-11-04 13:00:18	ew0k	I looked at the libcurl fork earlier today. It looks really simple! But it lacks testing, and there's a WIP branch about "handling META" which I don't really know what it's meant to do
2020-11-04 13:00:36	ew0k	I would *really* like to get gemini into libcurl
2020-11-04 13:00:49	ew0k	I think that would make client builds a lot easier
2020-11-04 13:01:05	ew0k	well... I believe it would... I don't really know :D 
2020-11-04 13:01:17	ehmry	but then you would have to deal with the libcurl maintainer
2020-11-04 13:01:38	dacav	yeah ew0k ! Not to mention the other problem with openssl, that is having the same program initializing it twice in case of double-reachability in the dependecy graph
2020-11-04 13:02:25	ew0k	ehmry: is he hard to deal with?
2020-11-04 13:02:51	raiz	dacav: yeah, c can get very annoying, you'd start working on something you think you'd finish in the evening then you end up spending days working on it, unfortunately, other options aren't appealing either
2020-11-04 13:03:28	dacav	raiz: agreed.. but C is like slow-food
2020-11-04 13:03:35	ehmry	ew0k: it seems that way. also curl is bloated to hell
2020-11-04 13:03:42	dacav	you cook it with care :) you get it awesome
2020-11-04 13:04:09	ew0k	ehmry: good point about the bloat...
2020-11-04 13:04:48	raiz	there are already curl-like options for gemini
2020-11-04 13:04:50	dacav	Bloated I don't know (I trust you, given the amount of supported protocols), but also super-stable and well tested, AFAIK
2020-11-04 13:05:44	ew0k	dacav: bloated in the sense that it supports *everything*, but the code base actually looks nicely organized
2020-11-04 13:06:54	ehmry	it does ldap.
2020-11-04 13:07:53	omni	would someone come up with a lightweight ldap? :B
2020-11-04 13:08:37	ehmry	curl is a good example of where the unix philosophy has lead
2020-11-04 13:09:03	omni	isn't that the fault of the web?
2020-11-04 13:09:29	raiz	curl is not only a web thing
2020-11-04 13:09:53	omni	sure, but mainly, no?
2020-11-04 13:20:22	kiedtl	does curl really follow the unix philosophy?
2020-11-04 13:20:53	kiedtl	I would think the Unix philosophy would be in favor a separate tool for HTTP(S), Gemini/Gopher, FTP, SSH, etc
2020-11-04 13:22:17	ew0k	possibly
2020-11-04 13:23:05	ew0k	it's semantics, I guess. It does one thing and one thing only in that it makes calls over the internet
2020-11-04 13:24:36	raiz	I agree with kiedtl 
2020-11-04 13:24:46	raiz	imagine if cat supported compression?
2020-11-04 13:25:02	raiz	instead of gzcat and bzcat
2020-11-04 13:25:20	raiz	oh wait, lets add hexdumps to cat too
2020-11-04 13:26:03	raiz	cat already has too many features in the modern day unix system
2020-11-04 13:26:52	raiz	cat -n can be done using nl for example
2020-11-04 13:27:13	raiz	and there's cat -v which I don't know if anyone does use it
2020-11-04 13:27:23	raiz	if you know anyone who does, tell me
2020-11-04 13:29:59	ew0k	Has someone made a geminicurl?
2020-11-04 13:30:12	dacav	ew0k: well, gmni does that
2020-11-04 13:30:26	raiz	there's gcat also which was mentioned here a few times
2020-11-04 13:30:30	dacav	that's how I like to access geminy :)
2020-11-04 13:30:37	ew0k	dacav: that's the one I saw! I just thought "didn't I see something like that..."
2020-11-04 13:30:39	dacav	minus the url selection :D
2020-11-04 13:30:44	raiz	you could also wrap a shell script around netcat to do that
2020-11-04 13:33:45	@tomasino	I think there's also a gurl or gem_curl project
2020-11-04 13:34:01	raiz	lol that name
2020-11-04 13:34:11	@tomasino	I remember there being 2 or 3 discussed on the list around the same time
2020-11-04 13:34:17	@tomasino	;)
2020-11-04 13:34:18	raiz	"how's goin' gurl"
2020-11-04 13:52:31	ericonr	tomasino: I have used the gurl that's written in zig
2020-11-04 13:54:54	ericonr	aravk: well BearSSL is a great KISS SSL library which suffers from being too simple, making self signed more of a pain than it might otherwise need to be
2020-11-04 14:07:00	dacav	Speaking of alternatives, I guess LibreSSL == OpenSSL, we spoke about Bear...  ...anyone tried GNUTLS so far?
2020-11-04 14:17:25	ew0k	I wrote my thoughts on the lack of POST in gemini: gemini://tilde.team/~ew0k/gemini-and-post.gmi
2020-11-04 14:17:44	ew0k	Felt like I needed a long form post to spill my thoughts on it.
2020-11-04 14:22:10	@tomasino	they're good thoughts to spill
2020-11-04 14:22:40	bie	good thoughts, yeah! i kind of feel like it's "too soon" or something to worry too much about non-technical users
2020-11-04 14:22:56	bie	too soon might be the wrong way to put it, buuut
2020-11-04 14:23:21	@tomasino	i'm firmly in favor of the protocol being primarily read-only. not adding in POST means we're not preemptively solving the non-technical user issue by slapping the web solution on top
2020-11-04 14:24:01	@tomasino	there's other things we can do, certainly
2020-11-04 14:24:19	@tomasino	ftp is hard because the web made daily use of ftp go away
2020-11-04 14:24:32	@tomasino	but it was a day-in-day-out office task for a decade
2020-11-04 14:24:50	@tomasino	there's happy little guis
2020-11-04 14:24:52	@tomasino	you can drag & drop
2020-11-04 14:25:01	bie	yesssss
2020-11-04 14:25:02	@tomasino	and that's just FTP
2020-11-04 14:25:35	bie	i like the really simple input status code gemini has, though
2020-11-04 14:25:51	@tomasino	it's nice and well limited
2020-11-04 14:26:05	bie	i wrote a simple guestbook type thing with multi-step input
2020-11-04 14:26:10	ew0k	tomasino: yeah! And finding a space to put your files can’t be harder than deciding which blog portal to sign up for
2020-11-04 14:26:11	bie	on blekksprut.net
2020-11-04 14:26:36	@tomasino	the modern web is a hammer that has us thinking everything we want to do is a nail
2020-11-04 14:26:39	ew0k	The question is how you solve wiki, for example
2020-11-04 14:26:46	dacav	but is POST really a thing different than a mere label, actually? Nothing prevents a `gemini://....?query_string`, right? And that needs evaluation and forms and whatever not too.
2020-11-04 14:26:46	@tomasino	wiki is a web convention
2020-11-04 14:26:50	bie	i don't really think wiki has to be solved, but... yeah
2020-11-04 14:27:08	ew0k	I mean... maybe a public ftp is the equivalent
2020-11-04 14:27:10	xfnw	you could use git for wikis
2020-11-04 14:27:10	@tomasino	it doesn't need to be like that
2020-11-04 14:27:44	ew0k	dacav: the query string can’t be very long. 1024 chars innits entirety, and that’s after url encoding
2020-11-04 14:28:31	ericonr	xfnw: for git https://repo.or.cz/h/mob.html :)
2020-11-04 14:28:33	ericonr	it
2020-11-04 14:28:37	ericonr	's a very nice idea
2020-11-04 14:29:15	bie	1024 characters is the entire url, right?
2020-11-04 14:29:30	ew0k	Yup
2020-11-04 14:29:44	bie	so it would be... 1024 characters - the "base url"
2020-11-04 14:30:29	ew0k	yup
2020-11-04 14:30:49	@tomasino	if i were building a community free-for-all info board like a wiki from scratch, i'd have user accounts log me into an editor experience like vscode with the project pane open. Hop around, edit, save, quit
2020-11-04 14:31:12	bie	i don't know how vscode works, but i'd do just like
2020-11-04 14:31:18	dacav	Anyway, I do agree with the read-only idea.  It's the usual thing: if you want some interaction, there are different tools
2020-11-04 14:31:21	bie	an old school bbs style interface
2020-11-04 14:31:52	ew0k	I don’t know how either vscode or old school bbs work/look :D
2020-11-04 14:32:29	@tomasino	you could do it with a remote shell into ranger or something, but if we DO want to make it easy for non-techies, an app that you log into that's making a tcp connection, validating you through user/pass or cert, then giving you a VSCode-like experience would be heaven
2020-11-04 14:33:00	bie	what's ranger?
2020-11-04 14:33:10	@tomasino	it's a file-browser thingy for the command line
2020-11-04 14:33:13	bie	ohhh right
2020-11-04 14:33:19	bie	like...yeah... like those things lol
2020-11-04 14:33:38	@tomasino	non-techies use apps
2020-11-04 14:33:45	insep	scp anyone?
2020-11-04 14:33:45	bie	i use apps <3
2020-11-04 14:33:49	@tomasino	so just, like, have one. Have the signup be a part of it.
2020-11-04 14:34:10	bie	i'm a non-technie by day AND night, techie when... nostalgic
2020-11-04 14:34:13	bie	or something like that
2020-11-04 14:34:20	@tomasino	oh you want to build a gemini capsule? Well, the easiest way is through gemcities.com and using the gemcities app
2020-11-04 14:34:28	bie	i like that idea, though
2020-11-04 14:34:59	bie	really like it, actually :x
2020-11-04 14:35:06	@tomasino	have handy buttons for "insert link" that prompt for the URL and the title and format it for them
2020-11-04 14:35:29	@tomasino	change text from header 1,2,3, body, quote, or list with a dropdown
2020-11-04 14:35:55	@tomasino	yes gemtext is simple, but make it trivial for the non-techy
2020-11-04 14:36:20	ew0k	tomasino: I like this very much
2020-11-04 14:36:22	@tomasino	maybe it shows a 2 pane split, raw txt on the left, rendered gemtext on the right
2020-11-04 14:36:28	@tomasino	user can toggle it on/off, whatnot
2020-11-04 14:37:06	@tomasino	http://25.io/mou/ is like that, sorta
2020-11-04 14:37:08	bie	i seriously might make something like that, at least for ios
2020-11-04 14:37:09	@tomasino	if you need a visual
2020-11-04 14:37:16	bie	don't know anything about android
2020-11-04 14:37:46	@tomasino	once you make it the idea will be there and others can be like, "oh yeah. wikis aren't the only design pattern we have"
2020-11-04 14:37:53	bie	yeah yeah!
2020-11-04 14:39:06	@tomasino	okay, back to work with me. best of luck to you all!
2020-11-04 14:40:05	bie	tomasino: have fun~!
2020-11-04 14:40:15	bie	almost midnight here
2020-11-04 14:58:49	kiedtl	raiz: curl is more comparable to a /bin/cat implementation that can deserialize yaml or json, lol
2020-11-04 14:59:51	aravk	why can't we have a wiki protocol
2020-11-04 15:00:23	aravk	or any public-access-but-send-patches kind of protocol
2020-11-04 15:00:33	aravk	it's not as general as POST, for example
2020-11-04 15:00:46	aravk	but the GET side would basically match gemini
2020-11-04 15:03:37	low-key	Is the gmnisrv man page hosted somewhere?
2020-11-04 15:03:50	aravk	I don't think so
2020-11-04 15:03:55	aravk	I have it though, if you want
2020-11-04 15:04:08	aravk	wait
2020-11-04 15:04:09	aravk	no I don't
2020-11-04 15:04:14	low-key	Could you please?
2020-11-04 15:04:16	low-key	Ah
2020-11-04 15:04:17	aravk	 I have the gmni and gmnlm
2020-11-04 15:04:23	aravk	I can get gmnisrv too, np
2020-11-04 15:04:27	aravk	gimme 1 min
2020-11-04 15:04:30	low-key	It's in the folder but that format is rather inconvenient to read
2020-11-04 15:04:56	low-key	What would it take to convert that scd file?
2020-11-04 15:05:23	aravk	drew's scd man-page generator
2020-11-04 15:05:31	aravk	scdoc
2020-11-04 15:05:42	aravk	should be at git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/scdoc
2020-11-04 15:05:53	low-key	Ah, thanks ;)
2020-11-04 15:06:14	low-key	Then I should just be able to open it with less and it'll be properly formatted as a man page?
2020-11-04 15:07:14	aravk	https://ttm.sh/d2_.1
2020-11-04 15:07:22	aravk	https://ttm.sh/d2j.5
2020-11-04 15:07:25	aravk	not with less, with man
2020-11-04 15:07:37	aravk	man pages have even weirder formatting
2020-11-04 15:07:46	aravk	use man ./<file>.1 or whatever
2020-11-04 15:09:22	low-key	Ah, alright.
2020-11-04 15:09:38	low-key	Where would I be putting it so that I can just run man gmnisrv to get it?
2020-11-04 15:09:47	aravk	best would just be to install gmnisrv
2020-11-04 15:09:52	aravk	install scdoc first
2020-11-04 15:09:58	aravk	then it should build automatically
2020-11-04 15:10:13	low-key	Okay
2020-11-04 15:10:22	aravk	(i.e. download scdoc; configure; make; make install; download gmnisrv; configure; make; make install)
2020-11-04 15:12:08	kayw	I had to manually install scdoc because Debian 10 has an outdated version
2020-11-04 15:14:16	aravk	I prefer to install tons of stuff by hand
2020-11-04 15:14:21	aravk	it's really not that difficult
2020-11-04 15:14:33	aravk	plus I use gentoo so this is already normal
2020-11-04 15:15:32	kayw	also if you need a SystemD service for gmnisrv lmk
2020-11-04 15:15:44	low-key	Okay, manually installing it fixed that error and the docs got installed just fine
2020-11-04 15:15:47	low-key	Thanks aravk
2020-11-04 15:15:50	low-key	:D
2020-11-04 15:21:08	low-key	Is there any movement towards making regular http sites available over gemini?
2020-11-04 15:21:20	low-key	Porting them.
2020-11-04 15:25:13	aravk	not really
2020-11-04 15:25:36	aravk	gemini isn't about replacing the web; at least, gemini.circumlunar.space says so
2020-11-04 15:25:52	aravk	better to have both
2020-11-04 15:26:38	bie	agreed.... i sometimes make stuff available over both http(s) and gemini, but only if i feel like it fits... both
2020-11-04 15:26:41	low-key	I know but...
2020-11-04 15:27:04	low-key	I'd just like to use Gemini more and it's kinda tough when most of the information sites I frequent are not on gemini
2020-11-04 15:27:13	low-key	Like the Arch Wiki
2020-11-04 15:27:38	aravk	for now, you'll still have to use both
2020-11-04 15:27:51	aravk	no one is (reasonably) anticipating Gemini to come to everything anytime soon
2020-11-04 15:28:17	bie	tbh, i don't want it to ever be everywhere
2020-11-04 15:28:28	aravk	yeah, true
2020-11-04 15:28:41	bie	sometimes a film adaptation of a book works, but i wouldn't want every single book ever written to have a film adaptation
2020-11-04 15:28:53	low-key	i just want the few sites and people I'm interested in to offer a gemini version
2020-11-04 15:29:23	low-key	I agree. I don't want the smolnet to grow obese like the internet.
2020-11-04 15:29:24	bie	low-key: if it's only a few sites, you might be able to take care of it yourself?
2020-11-04 15:32:08	Dr-WaSabi	I thought that there was a tool to convert html to gemini?  or I could just be totally making that up in my head.. who knows
2020-11-04 15:32:29	Dr-WaSabi	it was like a library or something
2020-11-04 15:35:28	aravk	no yeah it's been discussed on the mailing list
2020-11-04 15:35:41	aravk	but I don't think it's going to be super helpful for more complex html
2020-11-04 15:35:50	aravk	and pls don't bring js into the picture
2020-11-04 15:36:24	Dr-WaSabi	ha.. no kidding
2020-11-04 16:31:59	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 16:33:50	acdw	morning!
2020-11-04 16:34:21	acdw	I have gemini-only content; i'm planning on HTTP me to be more "professional", and gemini to be personal
2020-11-04 16:34:54	aravk	makes sense
2020-11-04 16:36:53	aravk	hey acdw, I have a briefcase full of ducks, wtf do I do
2020-11-04 16:37:26	ew0k	aravk: release them!
2020-11-04 16:37:34	★	ew0k loads rifle
2020-11-04 16:37:37	★	aravk releases the ducks
2020-11-04 16:37:39	aravk	wait
2020-11-04 16:37:41	aravk	HOLY CRAP
2020-11-04 16:37:42	aravk	noooooo
2020-11-04 16:37:48	ew0k	,bang
2020-11-04 16:37:48	tildebot	[Ducks] ew0k: There was no duck!
2020-11-04 16:37:56	aravk	hah
2020-11-04 16:38:04	ew0k	:D
2020-11-04 16:38:07	aravk	xD
2020-11-04 16:42:22	acdw	aravk: yes, ew0k was right, the best thing to do is release them
2020-11-04 16:42:25	acdw	:P
2020-11-04 16:43:17	★	aravk yells 'fly birdies, flyyyyyy'
2020-11-04 16:43:23	jcowan	I use Lagrange's http proxy quite often, but I often have to turn it off because a site linked to by a Gemini or Gopher site is not a SmallWeb site.
2020-11-04 16:44:16	aravk	SmallWeb™®©
2020-11-04 16:44:42	acdw	dear god, make me a bird, so i can fly, far far away from here
2020-11-04 16:57:46	@tomasino	oh jenny
2020-11-04 16:59:04	acdw	me and jenny
2020-11-04 17:07:09	low-key	What's your gemini site acdw?
2020-11-04 17:07:16	low-key	Or have I already asked you this?
2020-11-04 17:07:20	low-key	I'll bookmark it.
2020-11-04 17:08:01	low-key	is there any gemini based wiki yet?
2020-11-04 17:09:46	aravk	I don't think so
2020-11-04 17:10:00	aravk	I would much rather prefer a distributed git-based wiki
2020-11-04 17:10:26	aravk	perhaps require GPG signatures
2020-11-04 17:11:08	acdw	low-key: gemini://gem.acdw.net
2020-11-04 17:11:15	acdw	i don't know if you've asked 
2020-11-04 17:11:26	acdw	there *is* transjovian.org, which is a wiki
2020-11-04 17:11:43	acdw	gemini://transjovian.org , i believe
2020-11-04 17:11:48	aravk	oh yeah
2020-11-04 17:12:07	aravk	but still
2020-11-04 17:12:11	acdw	how active is it? idk :
2020-11-04 17:12:12	aravk	why are git wikis not a thing
2020-11-04 17:12:12	acdw	:)
2020-11-04 17:12:22	acdw	Isn't Ikiwiki based on git?
2020-11-04 17:12:26	acdw	tho that's http
2020-11-04 17:12:32	aravk	git distributes best over http
2020-11-04 17:12:36	aravk	or ssh
2020-11-04 17:12:49	aravk	there isn't a gemini thing for git and imo there shouldn't be
2020-11-04 17:12:51	acdw	or git://
2020-11-04 17:12:55	aravk	yeah or git://
2020-11-04 17:13:02	aravk	is git:// encrypted?
2020-11-04 17:13:09	acdw	people ahve worked on gemini git interfaces
2020-11-04 17:13:12	acdw	not that i know of
2020-11-04 17:15:11	acdw	https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-on-the-Server-The-Protocols#the_git_protocol
2020-11-04 17:15:21	acdw	"it listens on a dedicated port (9418) that provides a service similar to the SSH protocol, but with absolutely no authentication"
2020-11-04 17:18:14	aravk	hmm
2020-11-04 17:18:22	aravk	no encryption thuogh
2020-11-04 17:18:40	aravk	but I think it does have some verification or smth so that your stuff can't be modified as you're receiving it
2020-11-04 17:19:14	aravk	they keep mentioning that it's the same stuff as SSH but without encryption or authentication
2020-11-04 17:26:13	aravk	where do I even ask about this
2020-11-04 17:27:04	low-key	Thanks acdw :)
2020-11-04 17:27:42	low-key	For the wiki as well.
2020-11-04 17:27:53	low-key	It's this whole network effect thing once again. 
2020-11-04 17:28:40	acdw	sure :)
2020-11-04 17:28:53	acdw	aravk: git:// is really only used as a pull protocol
2020-11-04 17:29:06	acdw	so anyone can clone your repo, but if you want push prolly use ssh:
2020-11-04 17:29:26	low-key	Also, ew0k and aravk, thanks for the chuckle.
2020-11-04 17:29:42	acdw	as far  as where to ask, IDK,,, maybe there's a #git channel on freenode or somethign?
2020-11-04 17:29:43	low-key	The ducks thing.
2020-11-04 17:29:51	low-key	Really needed a good laugh.
2020-11-04 17:29:55	acdw	ducks are funny!
2020-11-04 17:29:59	acdw	you okay low-key?
2020-11-04 17:30:03	low-key	They were funnier
2020-11-04 17:30:12	low-key	I am, thanks for asking :)
2020-11-04 17:30:15	low-key	Just studies getting to me.
2020-11-04 17:30:30	acdw	oh yes, they can be a lot!
2020-11-04 17:30:34	low-key	This competitive exam culture is crushing
2020-11-04 17:30:37	acdw	i do not miss my school days
2020-11-04 17:30:42	acdw	oooof i can't even imagine
2020-11-04 17:30:50	low-key	It's huge in India. 
2020-11-04 17:31:08	low-key	Pretty much defines your adolescence and youth.
2020-11-04 17:31:18	acdw	oof
2020-11-04 17:31:20	acdw	that sucks
2020-11-04 17:31:32	low-key	Also, I'm new to irc so are we supposed to take the conversation elsewhere when it goes off topic?
2020-11-04 17:31:39	kiedtl	it's OK
2020-11-04 17:32:02	kiedtl	a little off-topic stuff won't do any harm. just don't discuss politics/religion here ;)
2020-11-04 17:32:04	acdw	from my experience, if someone's annoyed they'll say "could you take this to #channel?"
2020-11-04 17:32:12	acdw	+1 kiedtl
2020-11-04 17:32:24	acdw	if it does get political we can go to #politics
2020-11-04 17:32:30	acdw	religion, idk if there's a channel
2020-11-04 17:32:36	kiedtl	no politics/religion cuz it inevitably leads to a flamwar
2020-11-04 17:32:44	kiedtl	hm
2020-11-04 17:32:44	acdw	that includes vim/emacs :P
2020-11-04 17:32:49	kiedtl	lol
2020-11-04 17:33:04	kiedtl	bye the way, I hate monospace fonts and you can't change my mind.
2020-11-04 17:33:10	kiedtl	*by
2020-11-04 17:33:16	acdw	:O
2020-11-04 17:33:24	acdw	what do you code with kiedtl?
2020-11-04 17:33:28	acdw	slash what's your fav font?
2020-11-04 17:33:31	kiedtl	comic sans, what else?
2020-11-04 17:33:37	low-key	I don't think I'm qualified to talk about politics or religion :P
2020-11-04 17:34:03	kiedtl	neither am I ;P
2020-11-04 17:34:04	low-key	I think monospace has its place
2020-11-04 17:34:10	low-key	I would definitely not go with it everywhere
2020-11-04 17:34:18	low-key	But used sparingly, it's a good aesthetic
2020-11-04 17:34:25	low-key	And I do like it on my terminals
2020-11-04 17:34:41	low-key	We could have a quick “everyone share your favourite font” here.
2020-11-04 17:34:47	kiedtl	I was joking; I use monospace fonts everywhere ;)
2020-11-04 17:34:48	low-key	I'll go first. JetBrains Mono!
2020-11-04 17:34:49	★	kiedtl off
2020-11-04 17:35:19	kiedtl	I use ttyp0, bitocra. Wish I could use firacode but for some reason it's blurry on my monitor
2020-11-04 17:35:21	acdw	kiedtl: you know comic code?
2020-11-04 17:35:27	kiedtl	umm, no?
2020-11-04 17:35:31	kiedtl	never heard of it
2020-11-04 17:35:37	low-key	First time I've heard those names kiedtl
2020-11-04 17:35:38	acdw	JetBrains is nice. I love Go MOno
2020-11-04 17:35:49	low-key	I think I've seen Go Mono. 
2020-11-04 17:35:56	low-key	I used to be a huge Hack fan before this.
2020-11-04 17:35:58	acdw	it's serifed and monospaced
2020-11-04 17:36:01	low-key	And Fira Code before that.
2020-11-04 17:36:06	acdw	OH Victor Mono is great, it has cursive italics
2020-11-04 17:36:20	acdw	ttyp0 is dope af
2020-11-04 17:36:26	low-key	Okay, this I have to check out.
2020-11-04 17:36:45	acdw	I just fount a serif font I really like
2020-11-04 17:37:06	acdw	Spectral
2020-11-04 17:37:50	kiedtl	ttyp0 is a better version of misc-fixed
2020-11-04 17:38:12	low-key	I'll check that one out as well.
2020-11-04 17:38:20	low-key	Always on the lookout for new fonts.
2020-11-04 17:38:33	low-key	My present serif font is Piazzolla.
2020-11-04 17:39:56	aravk	I like Fira Code / Fira Sans rn
2020-11-04 17:40:03	acdw	also good
2020-11-04 17:40:04	aravk	maybe something else later
2020-11-04 17:40:28	low-key	My sans serif font right now is Inter.
2020-11-04 17:40:46	low-key	I like Fira because you get a nice family of serif, sans and monospace.
2020-11-04 17:42:27	aravk	only sad thing is that alacritty (my current terminal) doesn't support Fira ligaratures :(
2020-11-04 17:42:35	aravk	that's how you spell it right
2020-11-04 17:42:38	aravk	yeah
2020-11-04 17:43:03	kiedtl	ligatures
2020-11-04 17:43:07	aravk	oof
2020-11-04 17:43:10	kiedtl	lol
2020-11-04 17:43:14	aravk	it sounded wrong
2020-11-04 17:43:22	kiedtl	sucks how many terminals don't support ligatures :V
2020-11-04 17:43:28	kiedtl	my terminal, xterm, doesn't either
2020-11-04 17:43:32	kiedtl	and afaik urxvt doesn't
2020-11-04 17:44:29	low-key	Kitty ftw!
2020-11-04 17:44:36	low-key	🥳
2020-11-04 17:44:51	aravk	kitty was good
2020-11-04 17:45:03	kiedtl	never tried kitty tbh
2020-11-04 17:45:03	aravk	I had switched to alacritty for some reason from kitty
2020-11-04 17:45:18	aravk	kitty has cool stuff like a unicode symbol selection
2020-11-04 17:45:20	aravk	ligatures
2020-11-04 17:45:30	aravk	ipc
2020-11-04 17:45:36	aravk	etc.
2020-11-04 17:45:44	aravk	you can even display images inline 
2020-11-04 17:46:01	low-key	I actually wanted to try alacritty
2020-11-04 17:46:20	low-key	But it had some issues and so tried kitty instead because I wanted to see what all the hype around gpu powered terminals was
2020-11-04 17:46:31	low-key	Now I can't imagine using anything else.
2020-11-04 17:46:41	acdw	lig-a-chres
2020-11-04 17:46:41	aravk	I should switch back
2020-11-04 17:46:45	aravk	also, low-key: indian?
2020-11-04 17:46:50	low-key	Yup!
2020-11-04 17:46:53	aravk	awesome, same
2020-11-04 17:46:58	low-key	Whoa!
2020-11-04 17:47:01	aravk	yeah!
2020-11-04 17:47:03	low-key	That's a pleasant surprise :)
2020-11-04 17:47:30	aravk	yeah, it's cool
2020-11-04 17:47:40	low-key	So, the first question I must ask you.
2020-11-04 17:47:41	aravk	though I managed to gtfo of india
2020-11-04 17:47:46	aravk	yeah?
2020-11-04 17:47:52	low-key	Which tilde has the best ping for you?
2020-11-04 17:47:52	aravk	wait, maybe we should move to #meta
2020-11-04 17:47:57	low-key	Oh, you aren't in India anymore.
2020-11-04 17:48:02	low-key	Right
2020-11-04 17:49:17	acdw	anyway, GEMINI. .. :P
2020-11-04 17:49:18	acdw	hehe
2020-11-04 17:49:37	aravk	he
2020-11-04 17:49:38	aravk	he
2020-11-04 17:51:58	acdw	*she
2020-11-04 18:17:38	▬▬▶	southerntofu has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 18:24:45	acdw	hey what response code should I return if someone asks for a different protocol ?
2020-11-04 18:24:56	acdw	like,,,, 53 PROXY REQUEST REFUSED?
2020-11-04 18:29:34	kiedtl	54 GO AWAY CREEP
2020-11-04 18:29:41	kiedtl	*53
2020-11-04 18:30:45	xfnw	lol
2020-11-04 18:31:52	acdw	lol
2020-11-04 18:39:26	insep	lol
2020-11-04 18:44:42	aravk	not found should be found
2020-11-04 18:44:49	aravk	s/found$/fine/
2020-11-04 18:45:51	acdw	hey so
2020-11-04 18:47:06	acdw	i made a thing https://ttm.sh/d29.awk
2020-11-04 18:47:21	acdw	i don't think it's finished and it has to be wraped up in network logic
2020-11-04 18:47:23	jcowan	personally I like "53 No such luck, Doc! (chomp chomp)"
2020-11-04 18:47:29	jan6	you sure you did a thing? ;P
2020-11-04 18:47:45	acdw	lol
2020-11-04 18:47:47	jcowan	most of us do a thing every day or two
2020-11-04 18:47:55	acdw	i do a coupe things a day
2020-11-04 18:48:10	jcowan	Ouch.  Perhaps consider takijng Imodium.
2020-11-04 18:48:37	acdw	HEALTHY bowels poop anywhere from 3x a day to 3x a week
2020-11-04 18:48:39	acdw	FACTS
2020-11-04 18:49:12	jan6	fake news
2020-11-04 18:49:45	acdw	fake fake
2020-11-04 18:54:22	khuxkm	acdw: spec says 53 PROXY REQUEST REFUSED
2020-11-04 18:54:38	khuxkm	because it's a proxy request (different protocol) and you're refusing it
2020-11-04 18:54:40	khuxkm	:P
2020-11-04 18:54:56	acdw	oh I thought the message could be whatever
2020-11-04 18:55:27	jcowan	Yes, the spec explicitly says that META in 2x-6x isn't controlled.
2020-11-04 18:55:30	khuxkm	well the message can be whatever
2020-11-04 18:55:43	khuxkm	but the definition of 53 is proxy request refused
2020-11-04 18:55:55	acdw	oh okay cool
2020-11-04 18:56:01	acdw	jcowan: what do you mean?
2020-11-04 18:56:45	jcowan	The message associated with a response code is called META, and in 2x, 4x, 5x, and 6x responses it is to be displayed to the human user; the protocol doesn't depend on it.
2020-11-04 18:57:56	jcowan	(Which is kinda bad from an i18n perspective, although the client can ignore it and display something else depending on the current locale.)
2020-11-04 18:58:05	khuxkm	yeah; Big Tiddy Gemini Server returns a tar-like "Cowardly refusing to proxy <whatever> request" in META
2020-11-04 18:59:58	jcowan	The really bad case for i18n is the 1x META, because it can be anything and the user is expected to understand it.
2020-11-04 19:00:16	acdw	jcowan: ah, okay, cool
2020-11-04 19:00:19	acdw	also yes
2020-11-04 19:00:20	acdw	hmm
2020-11-04 19:00:25	acdw	anyway out to lucnh
2020-11-04 19:00:27		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-04 19:01:17	jcowan	I mean, you talk to a search engine for the Republic of Georgia, and it asks you "რას ეძებ?"  What now?
2020-11-04 19:01:32	jcowan	Of course, if you can't read Georgian you probably don't care about the result pages either.
2020-11-04 19:03:20	jan6	unless it's someone's bilingual blog, or something
2020-11-04 19:21:45	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 19:40:07	▬▬▶	kernel_pancake has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 19:45:47	khuxkm	tildebot: tr ga:en რას ეძებ?
2020-11-04 19:45:48	tildebot	[Translate] (ga -> en) რას ეძებ?
2020-11-04 19:45:51	khuxkm	uh
2020-11-04 19:46:02	khuxkm	oh
2020-11-04 19:46:26	khuxkm	dumb idea: gemini://example.ga/.well-known/i18n?search.query
2020-11-04 19:46:44	khuxkm	and then you send `10 რას ეძებ? (key: search.query)` or the like
2020-11-04 19:47:26	khuxkm	it degrades well (if you speak Georgian), and smart clients can hit the i18n endpoint
2020-11-04 19:47:33	khuxkm	...which would need a language, one sec
2020-11-04 19:47:42	khuxkm	gemini://example.ga/.well-known/i18n?en:search.query
2020-11-04 19:47:44	khuxkm	there
2020-11-04 19:49:14		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-04 19:49:59	jcowan	Okay, that's pretty good.
2020-11-04 19:51:17	khuxkm	the main problem is figuring out (a) how to define that key string? since we want it to be easily parsable and (b) how to spec that
2020-11-04 19:51:30	khuxkm	plus we'd probably want a client to handle that, and a server to test handling that...
2020-11-04 19:51:40	khuxkm	and this goes back to my idea of a well-known registry for gemini
2020-11-04 19:59:49	khuxkm	but that's something I think I'll make a geminilog (gemlog? glog? what are calling them?) about
2020-11-04 20:00:07	khuxkm	which would actually be the first time I made a blog on something that wasn't HTTP
2020-11-04 20:04:34	kayw	i think the most widely used name is gemlog but im not 100% sure
2020-11-04 20:07:32	makeworld	Yep
2020-11-04 20:08:07	raiz	why not call it a blog?
2020-11-04 20:09:55	khuxkm	because blog is (we)blog
2020-11-04 20:10:06	raiz	oh
2020-11-04 20:10:09	raiz	TIL
2020-11-04 20:10:12	khuxkm	gopher has phlogs, which are, I assume (go)ph(er)logs
2020-11-04 20:10:28	khuxkm	so there would be precedent, in my mind, for gem(ini)logs
2020-11-04 20:10:50	khuxkm	or even g(emini)logs if you want to go that far
2020-11-04 20:10:50	raiz	yeah, generally, everyone I hear called them gemlogs
2020-11-04 20:12:04	boringcactus	i think "glog" is more transparently parallel with "blog" and "phlog" but "gemlog" is more recognizable
2020-11-04 20:13:46	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 20:19:21	khuxkm	"ilog"/"nilog"/"milog" would be more parallel to the construction of "blog" and "phlog" (respectively, (gemin)ilog, (gemi)nilog, or (ge)mi(ni)log
2020-11-04 20:19:31	khuxkm	the latter is actually how I think phlog was derived
2020-11-04 20:19:42	khuxkm	but gemlog is the name that stuck so it's the name I'll use for mine
2020-11-04 20:29:43	ew0k	I think we should have a protocol-agnostic name for them
2020-11-04 20:30:17	ew0k	like... p(ersonal)log, or just journal
2020-11-04 20:30:37	ew0k	but yeah, I call mine a gemlog too
2020-11-04 20:30:58	raiz	journal is universal
2020-11-04 20:31:02	boringcactus	honestly i think "blog" has evolved past any given protocol to be its own thing
2020-11-04 20:31:12	boringcactus	like. i forgot until this convo that it came from "web log"
2020-11-04 20:31:24	raiz	I didn't even know, lol
2020-11-04 20:31:41	khuxkm	I'm too much of a nerd :P
2020-11-04 20:32:23	raiz	the dict definition: "a website containing a writer's or group of writers' own experiences, observations, opinions, etc., and often having images and links to other websites."
2020-11-04 20:32:43	raiz	its cursed
2020-11-04 20:32:46	raiz	it has web on it
2020-11-04 20:32:51	boringcactus	imo just call it a blog anyway, and let the "I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're calling a 'blog' is actually a 'gemlog', or as I've recently taken to calling it, a 'glog'" people just do that
2020-11-04 20:32:57	★	raiz waves that thing around
2020-11-04 20:35:20	khuxkm	boringcactus: the problem is I'm one of those people
2020-11-04 20:35:47	khuxkm	I call my web one a blog, my gopher one a phlog, and now I'll call my gemini one a gemlog
2020-11-04 20:35:54	boringcactus	have you tried simply not being one of those people
2020-11-04 20:35:59	boringcactus	i will call them all blogs anyway
2020-11-04 20:36:16	khuxkm	boringcactus: again, I'm too much of a nerd
2020-11-04 20:36:17	ericonr	(a-z)log
2020-11-04 20:36:24	ericonr	sorry, [a-z]log
2020-11-04 20:36:24	boringcactus	.*log
2020-11-04 20:36:30	khuxkm	blog = "web log" and that's how it'll always be in my head
2020-11-04 20:36:43	khuxkm	so gemlog it is, because that's the name everybody else is using
2020-11-04 20:37:02	ericonr	boringcactus: çélog it is ;)
2020-11-04 20:37:22	boringcactus	🤷log
2020-11-04 20:38:00	ericonr	I like that
2020-11-04 20:51:54		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-04 20:53:08	khuxkm	what is -- for in text/gemini? horizontal rule? comment?
2020-11-04 20:54:13	boringcactus	iirc it doesn't have any particular significance to the protocol itself
2020-11-04 20:55:08	khuxkm	well some people are using it for *something*, I just don't know what that thing is
2020-11-04 20:59:48	aravk	rn there are suggestions to use it to license content
2020-11-04 20:59:50	aravk	see the ML
2020-11-04 21:01:02	khuxkm	>Another solution might be to send a single part multipart/mixed response, which IIRC can do headers.
2020-11-04 21:01:05	khuxkm	this is cursed
2020-11-04 21:02:11	CommunistWolf	ah, but technically allowed
2020-11-04 21:02:31	CommunistWolf	I suggested transfer-encoding: chunked but that didn't seem to get noticed
2020-11-04 21:02:33	raiz	I didn't even understand what they meant to be honest
2020-11-04 21:03:02	CommunistWolf	put your gemini (or whatever) file in a container format that can carry metadata, more or less
2020-11-04 21:03:30	khuxkm	`20 multipart/mixed\r\nContent-Length: 15\r\nContent-Type: text/plain\r\n\r\nHello, world!\r\n`
2020-11-04 21:03:51	raiz	I see
2020-11-04 21:04:51	raiz	that's a clever way to achieve an unclever task
2020-11-04 21:32:44	jcowan	khuxkm: I think a slightly better approach to internationalized queries is something to provide links to gemini://example.ge/search-query?lang=ka and gemini://example.ge/search-query?lang=en.
2020-11-04 21:35:35	khuxkm	idk, I kinda like my idea better
2020-11-04 21:35:58	jcowan	Then if the server provides lots of languages, gemini://example.ge/search-query?lang=* will give you links to searches in en, ka, ab, etc.
2020-11-04 21:37:06	khuxkm	that may be a better approach for your search example, but I feel like having an i18n endpoint is more versatile
2020-11-04 21:37:25	jcowan	I can see that.
2020-11-04 21:38:26	khuxkm	plus, I've wanted to make a Gemini well-known endpoints registry for more than one problem now
2020-11-04 21:38:32	khuxkm	so I figure I can get that done
2020-11-04 21:38:32	jcowan	(By the way, "რას ეძებ?" means "What are you looking for?")
2020-11-04 21:38:44	khuxkm	yeah I google translated it when you first brought it up
2020-11-04 21:38:53	khuxkm	that's how I knew it had to do with the search query
2020-11-04 21:39:42	jcowan	Another problem is that an English/French server probably wants to return different results to an anglophone who searches for "chat" than a francophone who does the same.
2020-11-04 21:40:41	jcowan	I suppose that could be carried somewhere in the client cert
2020-11-04 21:43:15	bie	ooo that's interesting
2020-11-04 21:43:46	bie	should properly look into how client certs work
2020-11-04 21:44:06	bie	can they carry, like, arbitrary metadata?
2020-11-04 21:45:33	jcowan	In principle yes.  The trick is to make sure that everyone agrees on the same field name for a given purpose.
2020-11-04 21:45:52	bie	right, right
2020-11-04 21:46:02	jcowan	One of the standard names is "favouriteDrink", precisely to illustrate this flexibility
2020-11-04 21:46:29	jcowan	so this would be "preferredLanguages"
2020-11-04 21:47:10	bie	i really like that idea, though... been thinking about it how to handle languages for my personal gemini thingie
2020-11-04 21:47:42	jcowan	language tags can be quite specific, like "sr-Latn-RS" meaning "Serbian written in the Latin script as used in Serbia".
2020-11-04 21:48:00		raiz has quit (quit: EOF)
2020-11-04 21:53:25	bie	yea.. personally i'd prefer something simpler, like iso 639-1
2020-11-04 22:02:01	jcowan	Oh, all the ISO 639-1 tags work too.
2020-11-04 22:07:34	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 22:16:15	bie	sooo are there any gemini servers that do anything interesting with client certs?
2020-11-04 22:16:40	@tomasino	astrobotany
2020-11-04 22:17:18	bie	oo thanks, looking at it now
2020-11-04 22:20:43	▬▬▶	martijnbraam has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 22:22:31	Sario|IRCCloud	tomasino: thanks for the reminder, my poor plant was mighty thirsty 
2020-11-04 22:28:05	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 22:34:27	▬▬▶	alex_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 22:36:49		alex11 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-04 22:51:59	▬▬▶	alex__ has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 22:53:43	jcowan	bie: MB allows you to limit parts of your site to specified users as identified by their certs.
2020-11-04 22:54:10		alex_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-04 22:56:08	bie	jcowan: MB?
2020-11-04 22:56:20	jcowan	The Unsinkable Molly Brown
2020-11-04 22:56:29	bie	thanks!
2020-11-04 22:56:38	ℹ 	alex__ is now known as alex11
2020-11-04 22:57:42	jcowan	It would be straightforward to write a gemini->gemini proxy that added support like that to any arbitrary Gemini server.  The server owner would keep the real server behind the firewall and only expose the proxy.  Then people who want to subscribe to private parts of the server send in their certs or SHA256 hashes of them, and the proxy redirects accordingly
2020-11-04 22:58:37	bie	i'm trying to figure out how to add support for client certs to my own gemini server now, but i think i'm doing something wrong
2020-11-04 22:59:34	bie	libtls' tls_peer_cert_provided() is failing
2020-11-04 23:00:06	jcowan	ya got me there
2020-11-04 23:00:14	jcowan	probably the mailing list would be more helpful
2020-11-04 23:00:38	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-04 23:09:54	bie	! figured it out... just had to set some options
2020-11-04 23:11:53		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-04 23:12:36	jcowan	The main limitations of certs is that you can only use them to grant access to particular people, not to deny access, because the people you want to block can just switch to a different cert.
2020-11-04 23:13:12	jcowan	there is no "registration" foofooraw to go through
2020-11-04 23:16:57		alex11 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-04 23:24:34	acdw	what's the thing that's not stunnel that I should run server stuff thru?
2020-11-04 23:26:12	bie	socat?
2020-11-04 23:26:51	acdw	yeah, that's it I think :)
2020-11-04 23:28:15	acdw	how wold i wrap that with ssl tho?
2020-11-04 23:31:12	bie	what i used was something like socat openssl-listen:1965,reuseaddr,fork,verify=0,cert=<crt>,key=<key> exec:./mygeminiserver
2020-11-04 23:32:40	acdw	thank!!!!!!
2020-11-04 23:33:50	acdw	openssl-listen? or bidirectional?
2020-11-04 23:33:54	bie	hope that helps - i switched to just handling it myself through libressl and no longer have the exact command i used before lol
2020-11-04 23:34:01	bie	uh, pretty sure i used openssl-listen
2020-11-04 23:35:34	acdw	thank you so very much :) any pluses to libressl?
2020-11-04 23:35:43	acdw	or do you mena you use the library from your server?
2020-11-04 23:38:02	bie	i use the library
2020-11-04 23:38:20	makeworld	Finally have some time to work on Amfora tonight
2020-11-04 23:38:25	acdw	oh nice
2020-11-04 23:38:28	acdw	both of ya
2020-11-04 23:42:19	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 00:00:02		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-05 00:08:22		kernel_pancake has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-05 00:24:08	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 00:24:53	acdw	bread
2020-11-05 00:29:36	kiedtl	butter
2020-11-05 00:29:43	acdw	cheese?
2020-11-05 00:30:03	kiedtl	butterkase cheese!
2020-11-05 00:30:13	kiedtl	Not sure if I spelled that correctly.
2020-11-05 00:30:23	acdw	oh i've herad of that
2020-11-05 00:30:27	acdw	good rigth?
2020-11-05 00:30:56	kiedtl	delicious
2020-11-05 00:31:02	acdw	mmmmmmmm
2020-11-05 00:31:04	acdw	cheese
2020-11-05 00:38:54	makeworld	I'm going to disable caching for domains that are being sent client certs in Amfora. Thoughts?
2020-11-05 00:39:34	acdw	I thinki that makes sense -- if you're usnig a client cert, it's probably application-y
2020-11-05 00:39:34	kevinsan	i'd like caching disabled entirely
2020-11-05 00:39:45	acdw	tho... god mode would be enabling caching per-domain, by the user
2020-11-05 00:40:21	makeworld	kevinsan: Why?
2020-11-05 00:42:19	makeworld	You can effectively disable the cache by setting max_size to 1
2020-11-05 00:42:20	kevinsan	makeworld: to save reloads on dynamic content, i seem to recall having to ctrl-r on amfora more than i'd like
2020-11-05 00:42:31	makeworld	Hmm yeah there is a balance there
2020-11-05 00:42:57	makeworld	It's hard to strike, I just know I want caching to exist bc it really improves the experience for reading, the difference is notable
2020-11-05 00:43:13	makeworld	Unfortunately there's no good heuristic
2020-11-05 00:43:43	kevinsan	it depends on usage. e.g. a back operation would make sense to fetch from cache. a redirect should re-fetch the page
2020-11-05 00:43:50	makeworld	A much older version disabled caching on URLs with query strings. But that was disabled because it made GUS slow with all the back and forth that happens when searching for something
2020-11-05 00:43:51	bie	kevinsan: ++
2020-11-05 00:43:55	makeworld	Hmm yeah
2020-11-05 00:44:09	jcowan	I wouldn't say that certs imply an application, see above for using certs for access control.
2020-11-05 00:44:33	bie	if there's an "up" operation i think that should bypass caching too
2020-11-05 00:44:46	bie	imo caching only makes sense for the "back" action
2020-11-05 00:44:51	makeworld	Not sure what "up" means
2020-11-05 00:44:57	makeworld	Also "forward", no? bie
2020-11-05 00:45:11		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-05 00:45:20	bie	i suppose forward too, as long as it's initiated specifically as a forward action
2020-11-05 00:45:23	makeworld	jcowan: Maybe yeah. If I disable cache on redirects maybe I'll renable it for client cert stuff
2020-11-05 00:45:25	makeworld	Yeah
2020-11-05 00:46:06	bie	up in av-98 is just going from gemini://a/b/c to gemini://a/b
2020-11-05 00:46:10	bie	no matter where you "came from"
2020-11-05 00:46:12	bie	AV-98> help up
2020-11-05 00:46:13	bie	Go up one directory in the path.
2020-11-05 00:46:25	kevinsan	it's a nice client btw makeworld, definitely up there as terminal clients go
2020-11-05 00:46:26	makeworld	"URLs or searches typed in the bottom bar are not loaded from the cache"
2020-11-05 00:46:29	makeworld	Thanks :)
2020-11-05 00:46:57	makeworld	bie: In Amfora you can type .., but yeah I don't think that's from the cache, see what I quoted above
2020-11-05 00:47:54	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/114
2020-11-05 00:48:10	makeworld	Made an issue for what kevinsan said
2020-11-05 00:49:12	makeworld	Might that fit that into next release, we'll see
2020-11-05 00:53:42		avane has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 01:16:39		martijnbraam has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-05 01:59:08		acdw has quit (quit: bye, love you)
2020-11-05 02:31:45	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 02:40:37		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 02:43:18	makeworld	I've decide to disable cache for redirects, but still leave it off for client certs. After testing with Astrobotany, there's still problems where it will use a cached message
2020-11-05 02:44:23	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 02:53:13	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 03:04:04		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-05 03:07:50	makeworld	Woot woot v1.6.0 is out!
2020-11-05 03:14:08	makeworld	Gemini client certs can just be the same as server certs right? I'm not missing anything?
2020-11-05 03:14:12	makeworld	And what about expiry dates?
2020-11-05 03:14:38	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 03:19:07	makeworld	Well I've added a command to the README now, without a long expiry. Hope it's good
2020-11-05 03:19:13	makeworld	openssl req -new -subj "/CN=username" -x509 -newkey ec -pkeyopt ec_paramgen_curve:prime256v1 -nodes -out cert.pem -keyout key.pem
2020-11-05 03:20:09	kayw	idea: host my gemini server on my rpi and use reverse ssh tunneling to expose it on my vps
2020-11-05 03:22:12	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 03:30:28	▬▬▶	lowkey_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 03:32:11		lowkey has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by lowkey_))
2020-11-05 03:32:11	ℹ 	lowkey_ is now known as lowkey
2020-11-05 03:33:41	lowkey	makeworld: hello!
2020-11-05 03:33:45	lowkey	so nice to run into you here!
2020-11-05 03:34:17	lowkey	just want to thank you for the phenomenal work on amfora! It's the finest gemini client i've used and is a major part of my love for gemini itself.
2020-11-05 04:00:01		avane has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-11-05 04:06:56	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 04:08:08	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 04:20:57		lowkey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 04:23:46		praetorian has quit (quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-05 04:58:15		ew0k has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 05:09:58	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 05:18:41	▬▬▶	ew0k has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 05:26:47	acdw	hmm i just realized.. the server in awk should exit after every "line" (request) of input
2020-11-05 05:28:05		ew0k has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 05:53:24	▬▬▶	ew0k has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 05:55:48	▬▬▶	ew0k2 has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 05:57:29		ew0k has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 05:57:29	ℹ 	ew0k2 is now known as ew0k
2020-11-05 06:08:18	mieum	lowkey: I agree amfora is wonderful :)
2020-11-05 06:12:27		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-05 06:12:34	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 06:13:11		ew0k has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 06:20:05	▬▬▶	ew0k has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 06:27:39		ew0k has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-05 06:27:55	▬▬▶	ew0k has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 06:28:35		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 06:47:19		ew0k has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 06:56:28	▬▬▶	ew0k has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 07:15:51		ew0k has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 07:17:19	▬▬▶	ew0k has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 07:20:39	ew0k	amfora++
2020-11-05 07:21:46	ew0k	makeworld: I'm not sure this is a good idea, but maybe cache sites of a certain size? I don't know how *long* a site should be cached, though.
2020-11-05 07:22:33	ew0k	Personally I don't mind hitting refresh manually every now and then -- I have the habit of doing that a lot on the web too, even on sites that *supposedly* update elements dynamically.
2020-11-05 07:23:25	bie	not all sites tell you that they're doing dynamic updates, though
2020-11-05 07:24:36	ew0k	bie: true. And many that do fail to update in a timely manner, imho
2020-11-05 07:25:07	bie	well, for gemini the only reason they would fail to update would be
2020-11-05 07:25:13	bie	a client arbitrarily caching content
2020-11-05 07:26:16	bie	i really don't see the big win for caching anything... like i said earlier - going to a cache for back and forward action is fine, but i anything more than that feels unnecessary and intrusive to me
2020-11-05 07:29:42	▬▬▶	ew0k1 has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 07:30:37	ew0k1	bie: the back and forward actions are definitely the only cases I sort of *expect* caching to happen
2020-11-05 07:31:12		ew0k has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 07:31:24	ew0k1	wow... my network is really shit today
2020-11-05 07:39:14		tejr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 07:41:29	▬▬▶	ew0k has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 07:56:25	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 08:05:35	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 08:22:32		benoliver999 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 09:30:08	ew0k	Rocketeer! Gemini browser on iOS :D Available through Testflight
2020-11-05 09:30:59	bie	rocketeer is neat! it crashes when trying to access my gemini server tho -,-
2020-11-05 09:32:39	ew0k	:(
2020-11-05 09:32:58	ew0k	well, still better than not having a gemini browser on the phone at all :)
2020-11-05 09:33:20	bie	true, true! and it will hopefully be fixed in the near future
2020-11-05 09:33:24	bie	https://git.shadowfacts.net/shadowfacts/Gemini/issues/2
2020-11-05 09:36:37	bie	... currently running a really badly written gemini crawler so i can have my own search engine
2020-11-05 09:37:01	bie	it hasn't crashed ~yet~
2020-11-05 09:39:37	ew0k	bie: if you index a bunch of pages and figure out a decent search algorithm I'd love to see the resulting engine :)
2020-11-05 09:40:04	ew0k	does anyone have links to gemini pages about the titan and/or dioscuri protocols?
2020-11-05 09:40:06	bie	oh i'll definitely make it available once it's a bit closer too being ready
2020-11-05 09:52:38	ew0k	I've had lots of great feedback on my "Gemini and POST" gemlog. Gonna try to write a follow-up today or tomorrow :)
2020-11-05 09:54:39	bie	ew0k: where's your gemlog~?
2020-11-05 09:56:20	insep	gemini://tilde.team/~ew0k/gemini-and-post.gmi
2020-11-05 09:57:28	bie	\o/
2020-11-05 10:02:13	nixo	Hi, I've got another specs question, this time on text/gemini.  In 5.3 it says " It is possible to unambiguously determine a line's type purely by inspecting its first three characters".  Then, in 5.5.1, Heading lines consist of one, two or three consecutive "#" characters, followed by optional whitespace, followed by heading text.
2020-11-05 10:02:34	nixo	Does it mean that "####" is parsed as "3rd level heading, whose text is "#"?
2020-11-05 10:19:26	ew0k	nixo: yup!
2020-11-05 10:19:54	ew0k	bie: sorry, went to lunch and missed your question :)
2020-11-05 10:23:55	nixo	ew0k: thanks, so elpher is wrong
2020-11-05 10:29:23	ew0k	elpher?
2020-11-05 10:30:37	nixo	emacs gopher+gemini client
2020-11-05 10:32:55	ew0k	never tried it, so I wouldn't know. But there are no fourth level headings in the spec, and as you say the spec explicitly states the whitespace after #, ##, or ### as optional
2020-11-05 10:34:05	nixo	yep, I wanted to be sure before submitting the bug report
2020-11-05 10:34:43	ew0k	👍
2020-11-05 10:40:49	ew0k	nixo: and because of this discussion I realized that my gmi2html tool treated the whitespace as mandatory :D I've now amended that
2020-11-05 10:46:13	ew0k	nixo: in other words; thanks for bringing it up
2020-11-05 11:16:18	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 11:19:36		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-05 11:21:12		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-05 11:21:16	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 11:22:28		superprower has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 11:24:47	▬▬▶	superprower has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 12:03:36		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-05 12:28:41		kiedtl has left #gemini ("<Esc>:wq!<CR>")
2020-11-05 12:28:50	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 12:29:17	kiedtl	tomasino: why don't you include a link to the channel logs in the TOPIC?
2020-11-05 12:33:20	khuxkm	gemini://makeworld.gq/irc/ methinks
2020-11-05 12:33:33	khuxkm	also the link to tomasino's log is broken (RIP tilde.black)
2020-11-05 12:57:37	@tomasino	tilde.team/~tomasino
2020-11-05 12:58:45	kiedtl	uhg
2020-11-05 12:58:54	kiedtl	tilde.team/~tomasino/irc/log.txt
2020-11-05 13:12:40	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 13:15:56	jcowan	ew0k: http://tinyurl.com/dioscuri-protocol
2020-11-05 13:16:18	jcowan	also links to titan (and gemini in case you needed that)
2020-11-05 13:18:22	jcowan	well, it doesn't, but it will if I can find a stable link
2020-11-05 13:19:26	jcowan	okay, added link to https://communitywiki.org/wiki/Titan
2020-11-05 13:22:40	ew0k	jcowan: thank you! I'd only found the ML posts about it, and haven't read them all :)
2020-11-05 13:26:51	jcowan	I designed Dioscuri primarily as an application protocol rather than a browser protocol.
2020-11-05 13:27:30	jcowan	One of the powers of the web right now is that you can download a fairly-safe specialized client application with your browser, which provides a bunch of features for it.
2020-11-05 13:28:19	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 13:28:40	jcowan	OTOH, it was never designed for that purpose, and it shows: the Single Page Application space is a pile of crazy hacks.
2020-11-05 13:29:26	jcowan	Designing an application-running framework from the ground up would be a truly excellent thing to do.
2020-11-05 13:31:35	jcowan	(wasm is a reasonable place to start)
2020-11-05 13:50:36	makeworld	low-key mieum: Thanks guys! :)
2020-11-05 13:52:08	makeworld	ew0k: Re: cache sites of a certain size: You mean like cache based on page size? I'm not sure, caching even makes a difference when pages are small. I'm going to add a cache timeout though, so that might help.
2020-11-05 13:52:34	makeworld	Something short like 10 mins
2020-11-05 13:58:55	ew0k	makeworld: how much of a difference does it make?
2020-11-05 13:59:53		kiedtl has quit (quit: This, too, shall pass.)
2020-11-05 14:00:09	makeworld	Does caching make, on small pages? Depends on the server, but in my experience it's noticeable
2020-11-05 14:00:31	makeworld	But it's mostly just noticeable when going back and forward
2020-11-05 14:00:50	jcowan	A lot of the Small Internet is static, though, and caching is a huge win there, especially if you can tell your client "Don't refresh this page, ever."
2020-11-05 14:00:53	ew0k	yeah, that's what I meant :) Sorry for not being clearer
2020-11-05 14:00:58	makeworld	All good
2020-11-05 14:01:31	makeworld	It's a difficult balance, but I think adding a timeout to the cache is useful, especially if people are leaving Amfora running
2020-11-05 14:01:51	makeworld	You could leave it open all night, but it seems dumb for it to use the cache in the morning
2020-11-05 14:02:05	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 14:02:10	ew0k	jcowan: especially when you download larger files like images. I often forget that I've downloaded an image, for example, and end up downloading it again
2020-11-05 14:02:14	makeworld	Maybe 30 mins is a better number though, idk
2020-11-05 14:02:45	ew0k	CAPCOM reads atom feeds every 6 hours
2020-11-05 14:02:49	jcowan	I an probably biased by not living in Mobileworld, but 2 weeks sounds better to me.
2020-11-05 14:02:59	ew0k	most pages won't update even that often :D 
2020-11-05 14:03:05	jcowan	Exactly
2020-11-05 14:03:38	ew0k	an index.gmi or index.gemini is also likely to update more often than, say a gemlog post
2020-11-05 14:06:18	makeworld	Well right now Amfora just caches for the entire session, with specific exceptions like I've talked about. The session is rarely going to be 2 weeks long
2020-11-05 14:06:24	makeworld	I'm pretty on the fence about this
2020-11-05 14:06:44	makeworld	Whether have a timeout or not, I mean
2020-11-05 14:18:34	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 14:23:48		zephryn has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 14:27:27	khuxkm	oh, btw, I'm now also publishing my logs
2020-11-05 14:27:36	khuxkm	so we have 2-3 separate places where logs are being kept
2020-11-05 14:27:45	khuxkm	I figure redundancy is ke
2020-11-05 14:27:48	khuxkm	s/$/y/
2020-11-05 14:28:00	khuxkm	gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/irc.log
2020-11-05 14:40:21	kiedtl	Why not just have a single logging bot?
2020-11-05 14:42:22	@tomasino	at the time i tossed mine up cause i had one of the oldest channel logs
2020-11-05 14:42:39	@tomasino	if someone wants ta make a logging bot you can feel free to grab my logs as a starting point an I can kill the cronjob
2020-11-05 14:42:52	kiedtl	I might take a stab at that
2020-11-05 14:44:08	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 14:47:57	ℹ 	raiz is now known as get_out_of_my_garage
2020-11-05 14:48:14	ℹ 	get_out_of_my_garage is now known as __R__
2020-11-05 14:49:09	ℹ 	kiedtl is now known as __S__
2020-11-05 14:49:19	▬▬▶	raiz has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 14:52:36		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-05 14:53:20	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 14:54:27		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-05 15:02:03	ℹ 	__S__ is now known as __restrict
2020-11-05 15:02:59	__restrict	Are there any gemini archives of the mailing lists?
2020-11-05 15:03:16	@tomasino	i think?
2020-11-05 15:03:19	@tomasino	lemme check
2020-11-05 15:04:30	@tomasino	hrm, not finding any
2020-11-05 15:04:33	@tomasino	just the web versions
2020-11-05 15:05:59	__restrict	ouch. kinda ironic.
2020-11-05 15:06:27	raiz	no one wrote one
2020-11-05 15:06:38	raiz	tbf
2020-11-05 15:07:19	@tomasino	https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/
2020-11-05 15:07:32	@tomasino	that's alls we got, until someone wraps it
2020-11-05 15:08:18	@tomasino	would be nice if someone did wrap it or auto-fetched messages nightly and strapped a search on the front
2020-11-05 15:08:35	@tomasino	we tend to refer people to the list a lot
2020-11-05 15:13:57	makeworld	Hold no there is a gemini version
2020-11-05 15:14:18	makeworld	gemini://rawtext.club/~sloum/geminilist/
2020-11-05 15:14:30	@tomasino	oh good
2020-11-05 15:14:31	makeworld	__restrict raiz tomasino ^^
2020-11-05 15:14:37	@tomasino	it didn't show up in GUS
2020-11-05 15:14:55	makeworld	Oh really? It shows up a lot in GUS for me, like when I'm searching for almost anything ha
2020-11-05 15:14:56	@tomasino	at least not when i searched "mailing list archive"
2020-11-05 15:15:30	makeworld	Huh yeah
2020-11-05 15:15:42	@tomasino	weird
2020-11-05 15:18:09	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 15:19:07	khuxkm	ooh, a logging bot would be nice
2020-11-05 15:19:46	khuxkm	I'll let kiedtl/__restrict try it first though
2020-11-05 15:23:32	raiz	makeworld: nice
2020-11-05 15:25:15	raiz	https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/faq.html
2020-11-05 15:25:16	raiz	1.3
2020-11-05 15:25:19	raiz	its there, lol
2020-11-05 15:25:58	acdw	lolol
2020-11-05 15:27:39	ℹ 	acdw is now known as scatbot
2020-11-05 15:29:08	ℹ 	scatbot is now known as acdw
2020-11-05 15:29:15	khuxkm	makeworld: why does amphora assume an address with spaces is a GUS query? it's not wrong behavior but I'm curious
2020-11-05 15:29:44	khuxkm	for instance, if I type "https://example.com/test file.txt" into my Chromebook, Chrome automatically sees the address and encodes the space
2020-11-05 15:30:04	khuxkm	vs typing "gemini://7f000001.nip.io/test text file.txt" and getting sent to GUS
2020-11-05 15:33:32	acdw	makeworld: your tomasino irc logs link is broke
2020-11-05 15:33:36	acdw	it points to tilde.black (RIP)
2020-11-05 15:36:35	@tomasino	Where?
2020-11-05 15:36:47	@tomasino	On team?
2020-11-05 15:37:09	@tomasino	Oh makeworld's link
2020-11-05 15:43:57	acdw	yeah
2020-11-05 15:44:01	acdw	sry to ping ya tomasino
2020-11-05 15:44:08	acdw	oops i did it again
2020-11-05 15:44:13	acdw	i played with your nick
2020-11-05 15:44:16	acdw	got lost in the game
2020-11-05 15:44:18	acdw	ooh tomasino tomasino
2020-11-05 15:44:23	acdw	ooh i think we're in chat
2020-11-05 15:44:39	acdw	i'm sent from aboooooooovveeee
2020-11-05 15:44:46	acdw	I'm NOT. That INNOcent
2020-11-05 15:48:38	acdw	okay so i'm testing my awk server
2020-11-05 15:48:43	acdw	it's doing okay! served itself
2020-11-05 15:49:37	acdw	trying to decide how to mime-types
2020-11-05 15:52:16	ew0k	acdw: tell me again why you decided to make a gemini server in awk. And how you solved TLS
2020-11-05 15:53:09	@tomasino	heh
2020-11-05 15:57:44	acdw	ew0k: b/c .. the emems? shit idk
2020-11-05 15:57:49	acdw	tls is gonna be with a wrapper
2020-11-05 15:57:58	acdw	socat I think --- of course the actual script will be in sh
2020-11-05 15:58:00	acdw	POSIX sh
2020-11-05 15:58:08	acdw	and i was thinking of trying to do multiplexing using make
2020-11-05 16:05:44	makeworld	acdw: My full log? Yeah I disabled it bc it's kinda a big file to serve from my home internet
2020-11-05 16:05:57	makeworld	Idk maybe it's doesn't actually matter, only a few megabytes
2020-11-05 16:08:11	jcowan	It's always important to remember that bandwidth is a *cost*, not a benefit.
2020-11-05 16:08:20	acdw	oh yeah, that's fine. i was talking about the link to tomas-ino's full log
2020-11-05 16:09:01	acdw	you have it as tilde.black, which is no more
2020-11-05 16:09:10	acdw	i think it's now on tilde.team/~tomasino
2020-11-05 16:12:00	makeworld	Ohh
2020-11-05 16:12:04	makeworld	Hmm ok
2020-11-05 16:12:58	makeworld	Updated
2020-11-05 16:13:19	acdw	:D
2020-11-05 16:13:59	makeworld	I should make a streaming version of the log hehe
2020-11-05 16:14:17	makeworld	Also stream support for Amfora is in sight! Far away, but in sight
2020-11-05 16:14:41		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-05 16:15:49	@tomasino	yay!
2020-11-05 16:16:07	@tomasino	a streaming version of the log IRC log would be great
2020-11-05 16:16:11	@tomasino	lurking mode
2020-11-05 16:16:21	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 16:16:46	makeworld	Yeah lol
2020-11-05 16:16:55	acdw	heck yeah makeworld
2020-11-05 16:17:16	acdw	you should call it gemini://makeworld.gq/irc/lurk
2020-11-05 16:17:18	admicos	gemini long polling?
2020-11-05 16:17:24	makeworld	Ha
2020-11-05 16:17:33	makeworld	admicos: Yeah sorta. Check out chat.mozz.us for a demo
2020-11-05 16:17:57	admicos	neat
2020-11-05 16:19:14	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 16:22:00	@tomasino	no need to poll with gemini+stream goodness
2020-11-05 16:22:20	@tomasino	just don't close the connection and parse as data received, line by line
2020-11-05 16:23:00	makeworld	Wait are people actually using gemini+stream?
2020-11-05 16:23:17		lowkey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 16:26:33	@tomasino	make it and they will come
2020-11-05 16:26:43	@tomasino	someone's gotta be first
2020-11-05 16:26:59	acdw	okay kevin costner :P
2020-11-05 16:28:35	@tomasino	:D
2020-11-05 16:29:01		nixo has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-05 16:29:16	@tomasino	as a very active community member who devs absolutely nothing for gemini, i fully support someone else doing it.
2020-11-05 16:29:16	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 16:33:17	acdw	haha
2020-11-05 16:33:38	acdw	tomasino: you *don't* dev anything for gemini :O you should write a server that outputs a random bjork wisdom
2020-11-05 16:44:50	raiz	tomasino: I was thinking about that yesterday
2020-11-05 16:44:59	raiz	except instead of text, I thought of audio or video
2020-11-05 16:45:10	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 16:45:17	raiz	a server optimised for such purpose would be required though
2020-11-05 16:45:46	raiz	since gemini can be handled with a single thread server because connections are closed after the transaction
2020-11-05 16:46:10	raiz	no need to fork
2020-11-05 16:49:39	makeworld	I mean unless you want more than 1 person connected at once lol
2020-11-05 16:51:19	lowkey	how do i get gemini syntax highlighting for neovim?
2020-11-05 16:51:44	lowkey	makeworld: i'm the guy who made that request about allowing the help page to be themed on amfora
2020-11-05 16:52:24	lowkey	if you could point me in the direction of your implementation for the rest of the elements, i coulddo it for the help page
2020-11-05 16:52:28	raiz	for serving content, queue can be used
2020-11-05 17:05:35		alex11 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-05 17:06:25	lowkey	can amfora not load local pages?
2020-11-05 17:07:12	@tomasino	um, i think there's a syntax file or two linked on the circumlunar site, lowkey 
2020-11-05 17:07:39	lowkey	i got the syntax file :)
2020-11-05 17:07:53	lowkey	though i'm having issues getting neovim to pick it up
2020-11-05 17:07:55	@tomasino	      rel="noopener noreferrer"
2020-11-05 17:07:59	@tomasino	er, bad copy/patse
2020-11-05 17:08:09	lowkey	dropped it into ~/.config/nvim/syntax/
2020-11-05 17:08:13	@tomasino	https://tildegit.org/sloum/gemini-vim-syntax
2020-11-05 17:08:24	@tomasino	try using a vim-plug or something to install it
2020-11-05 17:08:38	lowkey	oh, it needs that?
2020-11-05 17:08:48	lowkey	the documentation on the neovim site said i simply need to drop the files in
2020-11-05 17:08:50	@tomasino	there's native plugin loading
2020-11-05 17:08:54	@tomasino	and you can manually drop files
2020-11-05 17:08:59	@tomasino	i find it much easier just to use vim-plug though
2020-11-05 17:09:03	jan6	neovim, or vim native?
2020-11-05 17:09:08	lowkey	neovim
2020-11-05 17:09:29	@tomasino	https://github.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles-minimal/blob/master/.config/nvim/init.vim
2020-11-05 17:09:33	jan6	then it should be gemini-neovim-syntax ;P
2020-11-05 17:09:34	@tomasino	see the vim plug stuff at the top for examples
2020-11-05 17:09:59	@tomasino	don't confuse 'em more, jan6
2020-11-05 17:10:30	jan6	CONFUSSIOOONN
2020-11-05 17:10:35	@tomasino	though, i don't know if that repo is set up to use a plugin at all
2020-11-05 17:10:42	@tomasino	the instructions have a makefile going
2020-11-05 17:10:42	jan6	I specifically asked about vim or neovi NATIVE plugin loading
2020-11-05 17:10:49	jan6	so it's more they confused me
2020-11-05 17:10:50	jan6	lol
2020-11-05 17:11:13	lowkey	yeah, i just presumed it wasn't setup as a plugin repo
2020-11-05 17:11:21	lowkey	with its make based instructions
2020-11-05 17:11:44	lowkey	tomasino: the page you linked me to 404s
2020-11-05 17:11:55	jan6	no it doesn't
2020-11-05 17:12:16	jan6	https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jamestomasino/dotfiles-minimal/master/.config/nvim/init.vim would be the raw version
2020-11-05 17:12:27	jan6	but the link works fine for me, just copy it again?
2020-11-05 17:12:29	@tomasino	eh, all working here and just examples
2020-11-05 17:12:33	lowkey	my bad, kitty was only reading the part up until init. as the url
2020-11-05 17:12:44	lowkey	it was dropping the .vim at the end
2020-11-05 17:12:47	jan6	it starts with stuff like
2020-11-05 17:12:51	jan6	iletype off
2020-11-05 17:12:51	jan6	call plug#begin('$XDG_DATA_HOME/vim/plugged')
2020-11-05 17:12:51	jan6	" Global
2020-11-05 17:12:51	jan6	Plug 'embear/vim-localvimrc'
2020-11-05 17:12:51	jan6	Plug 'junegunn/fzf', { 'dir': '~/.fzf', 'do': './install --all' }
2020-11-05 17:12:51	jan6	Plug 'junegunn/fzf.vim'
2020-11-05 17:12:57	jan6	*filetype off
2020-11-05 17:13:01	jan6	oh you got it already
2020-11-05 17:13:28	@tomasino	but anywho, like i said, not sure if it'll work wit that particular repo. It doesn't look like the normal install procedure
2020-11-05 17:13:45	@tomasino	i never bothered with syntax highlighting on gemtext. Seemed unnecessary
2020-11-05 17:14:16	lowkey	i just thought it would be a nice touch
2020-11-05 17:14:20	@tomasino	Plug 'https://tildegit.org/sloum/gemini-vim-syntax' " would be the full plug line for this one
2020-11-05 17:14:29	khuxkm	oh I should write a nano syntax highlighter for gemtext
2020-11-05 17:14:36	lowkey	also, you have a man page and it is the most amazing thing i've come across today!
2020-11-05 17:14:53	@tomasino	:D
2020-11-05 17:14:53	lowkey	it's brilliant!
2020-11-05 17:15:01	@tomasino	thanks
2020-11-05 17:15:11	@tomasino	https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug - this is the plugin manager thingy i use for vim/neovim
2020-11-05 17:15:16	@tomasino	good instructions there
2020-11-05 17:15:22	@tomasino	off to dinner
2020-11-05 17:15:48	jan6	lol
2020-11-05 17:16:24	▬▬▶	lowkey_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 17:16:37	lowkey_	okay, i can manually set it to gmi and it works fine
2020-11-05 17:16:47	lowkey_	the autodetect for the filetype still isn't working though
2020-11-05 17:18:45	acdw	khuxkm : I think ther might be one
2020-11-05 17:18:59	acdw	is junegunn into animal liberation?!
2020-11-05 17:19:10		lowkey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 17:19:11	acdw	i mean, super cool if true
2020-11-05 17:19:29	acdw	oh yeah, github avi is peter singer's book
2020-11-05 17:20:06	lowkey_	hi acdw!
2020-11-05 17:20:31	ℹ 	lowkey_ is now known as lowkey
2020-11-05 17:20:37	acdw	hi lowkey_!
2020-11-05 17:20:40	acdw	lowkey!
2020-11-05 17:20:41	acdw	hm
2020-11-05 17:20:44	lowkey	hehe :P
2020-11-05 17:20:48	acdw	omg
2020-11-05 17:20:48	lowkey	i keep losing my nick
2020-11-05 17:20:56	acdw	here it is!: lowkey
2020-11-05 17:20:59	acdw	:P
2020-11-05 17:20:59	lowkey	because of that ip reassignemnt thing
2020-11-05 17:21:12	lowkey	so i'm on the verge of launching my gemini server
2020-11-05 17:21:19	lowkey	but i dunno how to go about generating certs
2020-11-05 17:21:22	acdw	oh nice!
2020-11-05 17:21:25	lowkey	:(
2020-11-05 17:21:26	acdw	i like gemcert, it's easy
2020-11-05 17:21:33	acdw	or you can do an openssl thing
2020-11-05 17:21:37	acdw	hang on lemme find it 
2020-11-05 17:21:42	acdw	(this should be in FAQ imo)
2020-11-05 17:22:00	lowkey	um, i can't seem to find it on duckduckgo
2020-11-05 17:22:05	lowkey	could you link me to it?
2020-11-05 17:22:08	lowkey	ohh
2020-11-05 17:22:12	acdw	openssl req -new -x509 -newkey ec \
2020-11-05 17:22:12	acdw	-pkeyopt ec_paramgen_curve:prime256v1 \
2020-11-05 17:22:12	acdw	-days 1825 -nodes -out cert.pem -keyout key.pem
2020-11-05 17:22:14	makeworld	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemcert
2020-11-05 17:22:19	acdw	oh that too lol
2020-11-05 17:22:20	jan6	lowkey: you can use a tilde irc bouncer to keep connected, or just use SASL log-in to the server, or such
2020-11-05 17:22:42	lowkey	i am using SASL login
2020-11-05 17:22:45	jan6	huh
2020-11-05 17:22:48	lowkey	dunno why it still does that
2020-11-05 17:22:49	makeworld	Is that actually in the FAQ acdw?
2020-11-05 17:22:58	jan6	I thought that it would auto-boot off the old nick
2020-11-05 17:23:05	lowkey	i thought so too
2020-11-05 17:23:10	makeworld	No it's not hmm
2020-11-05 17:23:13	lowkey	but it's happened to me one time too many to think so
2020-11-05 17:23:13	jan6	maybe automatically run a command to nickserv regain nick too, idk
2020-11-05 17:23:21	lowkey	oh, i can do that?
2020-11-05 17:26:38	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 17:27:46	jan6	depends on the client
2020-11-05 17:28:16	jan6	but I think a lot of the clients allow setting up commands to autorun
2020-11-05 17:28:43	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 17:29:57	jan6	on weechat for example, to autorun commands on joinin g the "freenode" network, you put them in irc.server.freenode.command
2020-11-05 17:30:20	jan6	which you seem to use
2020-11-05 17:30:26	jan6	/fset is great
2020-11-05 17:32:43	lowkey	oooh
2020-11-05 17:32:46	lowkey	thanks a lot for this
2020-11-05 17:34:07	jan6	I'm lowkey awesome ;P
2020-11-05 17:34:14	jan6	all hail jan6
2020-11-05 17:34:31	lowkey	:P
2020-11-05 17:35:05		swinslow has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-05 17:35:24	▬▬▶	swinslow has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 17:36:41	▬▬▶	lowkey_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 17:37:05	jan6	;P
2020-11-05 17:37:12	jan6	more lowkeys 
2020-11-05 17:37:12	jan6	lol
2020-11-05 17:37:26	jan6	ok, maybe you want to chat on gemini topics again
2020-11-05 17:38:03	lowkey_	so the term for a gemini site is gemini capsule?
2020-11-05 17:38:17	lowkey_	sigh, not again :(
2020-11-05 17:38:54	ew0k	lowkey_: I believe that’s the term, yes
2020-11-05 17:39:02	khuxkm	yeah that's the typical term
2020-11-05 17:39:13		lowkey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 17:39:30	ℹ 	lowkey_ is now known as lowkey
2020-11-05 17:39:35	lowkey	interesting
2020-11-05 17:39:38	acdw	makeworld: not that i know of
2020-11-05 17:39:43	lowkey	jan6: what were you saying earlier about a bouncer?
2020-11-05 17:40:04	acdw	lowkey: you can /msg nickserv re somehting
2020-11-05 17:40:21	lowkey	yeah, it's RECOVER
2020-11-05 17:40:24	acdw	thats it!
2020-11-05 17:40:28	acdw	lol
2020-11-05 17:40:29	khuxkm	https://gist.github.com/fd55c75b3e40ead5a9313184fdf2c54d
2020-11-05 17:40:29	lowkey	i have run it too many times already today :P
2020-11-05 17:40:34	lowkey	could you link me to gemcert?
2020-11-05 17:40:43	acdw	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemcert
2020-11-05 17:40:47	khuxkm	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemcert
2020-11-05 17:40:54	khuxkm	dang, acdw beat me to it
2020-11-05 17:40:56	lowkey	the gemini faq page has a nice explainer on certificates but doesn't go into how to setup your own
2020-11-05 17:40:58	jan6	19:22 <makeworld> https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemcert
2020-11-05 17:40:59	jan6	lol
2020-11-05 17:41:03	lowkey	hehe, thanks people!
2020-11-05 17:41:04	jan6	did you forget that one already
2020-11-05 17:41:06	acdw	haha, let's do it a few more times
2020-11-05 17:41:17	jan6	or does your client not persist chat history?
2020-11-05 17:41:18	acdw	yeah I scrolled up to makeworld's linke and copy pasted
2020-11-05 17:41:27	acdw	jan6 did something fancier
2020-11-05 17:41:30	lowkey	jan6: you mentioned something about using a bouncer from my tilde, right?
2020-11-05 17:41:41	lowkey	i'd love that
2020-11-05 17:43:10	jan6	depends which tilde, but I think several have znc, and about all allow you to just run weechat in a shell session in a tmux or such terminal multiplexer, which you can use with ssh/mosh, or use that as a relay
2020-11-05 17:43:41	jan6	at least ~team has znc that much I know for certain, I think ~club also does, and possible that ~institute MIGHT have? idk
2020-11-05 17:43:55	jan6	you can search around
2020-11-05 17:44:10	jan6	envs also has so much stuff I wouldn't be surprised
2020-11-05 17:44:37	lowkey	ah, i'm on team
2020-11-05 17:44:43	lowkey	i'll see if i can figure this out
2020-11-05 17:45:11	jan6	https://znc.tilde.team/ and wiki should help, and you can always ask b€n
2020-11-05 17:45:17	jan6	#team too
2020-11-05 17:45:50	khuxkm	I think ben needs to set up the ZNC account first
2020-11-05 17:48:22	lowkey	it did say znc isn't available when i ran the command just now
2020-11-05 17:50:00	jan6	yes, I thnk too
2020-11-05 18:01:23	@ben	username lowkey right?
2020-11-05 18:01:25	@ben	i can add the znc acct
2020-11-05 18:02:03	@ben	lowkey: try now, should work
2020-11-05 18:02:38	lowkey	thank you!
2020-11-05 18:02:40	lowkey	trying!
2020-11-05 18:03:10	lowkey	um, i'm not sure how to go about it actually
2020-11-05 18:14:41	jan6	lol
2020-11-05 18:15:05	jan6	#team or #helpdesk are probably better than #gemini for this chat
2020-11-05 18:16:15	▬▬▶	lowkey- has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 18:18:47	khuxkm	what's this chat about? gemini? let's talk about gemini
2020-11-05 18:19:10	khuxkm	I think I'm gonna start work on the CGI for Big Tiddy Gemini Server
2020-11-05 18:20:48	insep	is there a link to big tiddy gemini server? can't find it on  gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software
2020-11-05 18:20:55	acdw	GMNI
2020-11-05 18:21:07	acdw	best name for a server btw khuxkm
2020-11-05 18:21:13	acdw	edwin sounds dumb by comparison
2020-11-05 18:23:51		lowkey has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-05 18:25:47	khuxkm	insep: https://github.com/MineRobber9000/btgs
2020-11-05 18:25:53	khuxkm	it's still in alpha
2020-11-05 18:26:17	khuxkm	acdw: but "edwin" actually means something
2020-11-05 18:27:35	khuxkm	big tiddy gemini server was something dgy said in #meta and I decided to name my server project after it
2020-11-05 18:28:57	acdw	i mean, btgs means something too then
2020-11-05 18:30:27		lowkey- has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb1 - https://znc.in)
2020-11-05 18:30:56	insep	khuxkm: so is the name the only reason why you started working on this
2020-11-05 18:31:18	insep	acdw: i have my wip client called something similar :^)
2020-11-05 18:32:23	insep	oh god pinging that way was a mistake
2020-11-05 18:32:27	▬▬▶	lowkey- has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 18:33:42	acdw	insep: what it be?
2020-11-05 18:33:47	acdw	pinging what way?
2020-11-05 18:34:24	insep	wait is it displayed properly on irc side?
2020-11-05 18:36:47	acdw	yep
2020-11-05 18:37:05	insep	oh, i guess it's a little bit of rng then
2020-11-05 18:37:26		lowkey- has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb1 - https://znc.in)
2020-11-05 18:38:50	▬▬▶	lowkey- has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 18:42:54	raiz	guys guys, check this out: https://stellarbound.space/tmp/index.html
2020-11-05 18:43:00	raiz	\o/ it works
2020-11-05 18:43:21	raiz	gmi to html
2020-11-05 18:44:46	acdw	i don't think i can get there from work :(
2020-11-05 18:46:00	__restrict	My current plan for the logging bot: setup a litterbox instance, and create a gemini version of scooper to serve the logs from my gemini capsule. sounds good?
2020-11-05 18:46:02	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 18:46:02	raiz	I'll use this to provide access to my soon to be capsule from http
2020-11-05 18:46:33	khuxkm	raiz: nice
2020-11-05 18:47:01	▬▬▶	fleeky_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 18:47:55		lowkey- has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb1 - https://znc.in)
2020-11-05 18:51:46	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 18:52:42		lowkey has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-05 18:52:51	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 18:59:23		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-05 19:06:08	▬▬▶	lowkey_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 19:09:25		lowkey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 19:15:55	jan6	pandoc gemini plugin when?
2020-11-05 19:16:11	aravk	hmmmmm
2020-11-05 19:16:39	jan6	lul, raiz https://stellarbound.space/tmp/users/ is a link, but 404
2020-11-05 19:20:04	raiz	I just converted one page to test the code
2020-11-05 19:20:05	raiz	lol
2020-11-05 19:20:20	raiz	this is a relative link from gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/
2020-11-05 19:20:36	raiz	I fetched the index and coverted it
2020-11-05 19:22:03		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-05 19:23:12	khuxkm	jan6: isn't there already a pandoc gemini plugin?
2020-11-05 19:23:16	jan6	idk
2020-11-05 19:23:17	jan6	maybe
2020-11-05 19:23:26	jan6	I wouldn't imagine it to be hard to make one, anyway
2020-11-05 19:25:24	jan6	I'm really not up to date on all this geini jazz game
2020-11-05 19:26:33	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 19:26:35	khuxkm	https://github.com/kr1sp1n/gemini-pandoc-lua-filter
2020-11-05 19:27:47	jan6	specifically for html?
2020-11-05 19:29:07	khuxkm	well presumably it'd work with markdown
2020-11-05 19:29:08		lowkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 19:29:54	jan6	paninidoc
2020-11-05 19:29:58	jan6	lol
2020-11-05 19:31:10	raiz	Haha!
2020-11-05 19:33:02	jan6	paninidoc would be a great project, a rewrite of pandoc in a non-haskell language
2020-11-05 19:33:13	jan6	maybe pa-nim-i-doc ;p
2020-11-05 19:33:40	jan6	or pyndoc, the python pandoc ;P
2020-11-05 19:34:41	jan6	I guess that actually all you'd need is a markdown→gemini converter and then an anything→markdown converter, which is already a thing for most formats
2020-11-05 19:34:46	★	jan6 likes textile
2020-11-05 19:35:13	nihilazo	why rewrite pandoc in something other than haskell?
2020-11-05 19:35:20	jan6	because haskell
2020-11-05 19:35:21	nihilazo	I mean, haskell pandoc works well
2020-11-05 19:35:26	jan6	sure
2020-11-05 19:35:28	nihilazo	haskell is a language that is pretty suited to what pandoc is doing
2020-11-05 19:35:32	jan6	apache2 aso works well
2020-11-05 19:35:46	nihilazo	I don't personally like haskell that much but it's better than like
2020-11-05 19:35:52	nihilazo	idk what language you would rewrite it is
2020-11-05 19:35:54	nihilazo	s/is/in
2020-11-05 19:35:55	jan6	lol
2020-11-05 19:36:07	nihilazo	the main problem I have with haskell is that it's very complex
2020-11-05 19:36:27	jan6	plus all the dependecies it pulls in
2020-11-05 19:36:31		lowkey has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-05 19:36:45	jan6	but whatever
2020-11-05 19:36:47	nihilazo	you can get a binary version of pandoc
2020-11-05 19:36:50	nihilazo	that is statically linked
2020-11-05 19:36:50	jan6	sure
2020-11-05 19:36:52	nihilazo	no deps
2020-11-05 19:37:19	jan6	if you bother to hunt it down on each update
2020-11-05 19:37:33	nihilazo	in arch there is pandoc-bin in AUR
2020-11-05 19:38:55	jan6	just found it
2020-11-05 19:43:35	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 19:44:27	▬▬▶	lowkey_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 19:44:47		lowkey_ has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-05 19:45:52	nixo	I just realized that really few details are given about quotes.  Is it ">[whitespace]content"? Should I keep whitespaces between > and content?
2020-11-05 19:46:29	nixo	is an empty quote valid? ">"
2020-11-05 19:46:32	khuxkm	I don't think it matters?
2020-11-05 19:46:37	★	khuxkm reread spec
2020-11-05 19:47:23	khuxkm	"Lines beginning with ">" are quote lines."
2020-11-05 19:47:37	khuxkm	that implies that whitespace isn't required
2020-11-05 19:47:52	khuxkm	I'd still *keep* the whitespace but you don't /need/ it
2020-11-05 19:48:29	jan6	>it just looks better
2020-11-05 19:48:32	jan6	> with spaces
2020-11-05 19:50:11	nixo	Thanks
2020-11-05 20:00:37	ew0k	I think an empty quote *is* valid. It just doesn’t make sense
2020-11-05 20:01:40	ew0k	Lots of reactions to my post about POST :) I’ve started collating and summarizing for a part 2, but I won’t be able to finish that today
2020-11-05 20:10:05	aravk	ew0k: I've not read it yet, can you pass a link?
2020-11-05 20:24:22		nytpu has quit (quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-11-05 20:36:17	raiz	anything after the ">" is part of the quote
2020-11-05 20:36:27	raiz	even whitespace
2020-11-05 20:37:19	raiz	nixo: look at 5.5.2 ... it states explicit "* ", which means whitespace is required
2020-11-05 20:37:38	raiz	while in 5.5.3 it states explicit ">" which means absolutely no whitespace
2020-11-05 20:38:09	raiz	I complained a lot about this in the manpage
2020-11-05 20:38:11	nixo	raiz: Yeah but it would be strange to see a quote starting with a space
2020-11-05 20:39:15	raiz	others suggested I contribute by rewriting the spec paper in a more refined and explanatory way
2020-11-05 20:39:37	raiz	nixo: I guess that's on them for writing incorrect document
2020-11-05 20:39:48	raiz	what if my quote starts with space?
2020-11-05 20:40:19	raiz	also, what do you mean by space? is it skipping all whitespace and tabs till text is reached or just on whitespace character?
2020-11-05 20:40:28	raiz	does a single tab count as whitespace?
2020-11-05 20:40:49	raiz	until the spec says otherwise, I'd stick with not handling whitespaces after >
2020-11-05 20:41:16	nixo	whitespace should I think means "\s", since it's used in the link example, which include "\s\t"
2020-11-05 20:41:40	raiz	5.4.2 is more elaborative
2020-11-05 20:42:06	raiz	that's what I was whining about, 5.5.2 and 5.5.3 aren't written in the same format as 5.4.2
2020-11-05 20:42:25	raiz	because as I was told, they were included in the spec later
2020-11-05 20:43:03	nixo	raiz: yeah, my point is the same.  They should be defined "better" (more clearly) to prevent random behaviour from clients
2020-11-05 20:43:47	aravk	the issue is that there isn't a standard for this
2020-11-05 20:43:56	aravk	some do "> " some do ">"
2020-11-05 20:44:14	raiz	"> " != ">"
2020-11-05 20:45:07	aravk	ik
2020-11-05 20:45:28	aravk	you need to intellignetly identify whether a quote is a ">" or a "> "
2020-11-05 20:45:33	aravk	that's difficult
2020-11-05 20:45:36	raiz	I went through the same hell of changing the behavior of my implementation so often because everytime someone tells me to do it like X or do it like Y, until someone in the mailing list reassured my initial assumption that ">" is literal ">" only, with no whitespace whatsever
2020-11-05 20:45:43	aravk	you can't specify either one only because people use both
2020-11-05 20:46:44	nixo	raiz: but on "dumbs" clients (where advanced line types are not distinguished) "> quote" looks better than ">quote". So I'd rather have "> " just like "* ", followed by the quote.  So a quote that starts with a space should be ">  "
2020-11-05 20:46:46	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 20:46:59		praetorian has quit (quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-11-05 20:47:07	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 20:47:16	raiz	me too, but I'm not going to violate the spec
2020-11-05 20:47:41		nytpu has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-11-05 20:47:54	raiz	it is what it is, you can propose change in the mailing list, maybe this time people actually agree on how it should be handled
2020-11-05 20:47:55	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 20:48:46	raiz	for the sake of consistency, I'd like all line initializers in gemtext to allow any amount whitespace before the actual text
2020-11-05 20:49:01	aravk	but then what if there is some whitespace that is part of the quote
2020-11-05 20:49:26	raiz	oh right
2020-11-05 20:49:34	aravk	e.g. >     code where quoting e.g. markdown
2020-11-05 20:49:35	raiz	now ">" makes more sense
2020-11-05 20:49:53		nytpu has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-11-05 20:49:58	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 20:50:01		nytpu has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-11-05 20:50:06	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 20:50:36	raiz	aravk: now you've convinced me more that ">" shuld stay ">" by standard
2020-11-05 20:51:23	aravk	this kind of flip/flop happens all the time for debatable features
2020-11-05 20:51:56	aravk	also even if semantically there is additional whitespace being included in the quote it won't matter because it's only for highlighting
2020-11-05 20:53:27	raiz	after I finish working on my gemini stuff, I think I'm gonna rewrite the spec paper to be more precise and clean and answer the questions many newcomers have
2020-11-05 20:54:25	aravk	the questions *you think* many newcomers have
2020-11-05 20:54:32	aravk	but yes, definitely discuss them on the ML
2020-11-05 20:54:47	raiz	it is not only me who had this questions, no?
2020-11-05 20:54:59	aravk	lots of discussions like these come up on the ML
2020-11-05 20:55:12	aravk	you're right, no one has collected and condensed them into a rationale section for the psec
2020-11-05 20:55:13	raiz	exactly
2020-11-05 20:55:29	aravk	idk what solderpunk's goals are with that - ask on the ML
2020-11-05 20:55:39		nytpu has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-11-05 20:56:11	aravk	there should definitely be a rationale section for different features, to give an idea of how much thinking went into the decisions in the spec
2020-11-05 20:56:18	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 20:57:46	aravk	I love reading the rationals given in the riscv isa spec for example
2020-11-05 20:57:54	aravk	gives you a lot of perspective
2020-11-05 21:01:41	ew0k	aravk: gemini://tilde.team/~ew0k/gemini-and-post.gmi
2020-11-05 21:02:36	aravk	cool, thanks ew0k
2020-11-05 21:04:33	ew0k	Yw :)
2020-11-05 21:05:18	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 21:10:14	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 21:12:28		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-05 21:13:33	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 21:14:40		nytpu has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-11-05 21:27:56	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 21:40:03		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-05 21:57:55		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-05 22:26:14	▬▬▶	VI-A has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 22:26:27	__restrict	This is a test. Apologies for the spam...
2020-11-05 22:26:33		VI-A has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-05 22:26:48	▬▬▶	VI-A has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 22:26:50		VI-A has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-05 22:28:09	boringcactus	ew0k: gemini://boringcactus.com:6969/ i threw together a very half-assed example of what content authoring over Gemini-as-it-currently-exists might look like
2020-11-05 22:28:31	boringcactus	https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/gemini-authoring-example only works with jetforce's cgi implementation (afaik)
2020-11-05 22:31:52	nihilazo	I get an error about client certs
2020-11-05 22:31:57	__restrict	same
2020-11-05 22:32:01	boringcactus	hm
2020-11-05 22:32:13	__restrict	says I need a client cert to continue
2020-11-05 22:32:26	boringcactus	i mean, yeah, it wants one to use as a session identifier
2020-11-05 22:32:38	boringcactus	if your client will let you make a temporary cert that should work
2020-11-05 22:32:51	__restrict	which client let's you do that?
2020-11-05 22:33:20	boringcactus	Kristall does that easily, Lagrange does it but still makes you fill out all the cert details,
2020-11-05 22:33:27	boringcactus	idk which others support what
2020-11-05 22:33:33	__restrict	hm
2020-11-05 22:34:05	boringcactus	shame like half the clients don't actually handle client certs very elegantly
2020-11-05 22:34:13	boringcactus	as far as i can tell
2020-11-05 22:34:22	__restrict	My client doesn't... and there's no command-line flag to use one either
2020-11-05 22:34:37	boringcactus	s/ very elegantly// then i guess
2020-11-05 22:40:07		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-05 22:40:52	▬▬▶	VI-A has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 22:53:11	boringcactus	looks like Amfora, AV-98, Castor, and tinmop are the only other clients (listed on the clients page) which implement client certs (as far as i can tell)
2020-11-05 22:55:22	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 22:59:54	__restrict	wait, amfora does? I don't recall seeing a config option
2020-11-05 23:01:51	boringcactus	the readme has client certs checked off
2020-11-05 23:02:03	boringcactus	but not full UX within the client
2020-11-05 23:02:11	__restrict	hm
2020-11-05 23:02:41	boringcactus	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/blob/master/client/client.go#L16
2020-11-05 23:04:26	__restrict	makeworld: I'm confused. amfora seems to have support for client certs but there doesn't exist any config options or commandline flags to enable it?
2020-11-05 23:06:41	makeworld	There are config options, just added in v1.6.0
2020-11-05 23:06:42	makeworld	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/blob/445be96e467a959aff6dc8aaf75ca8751ce6f2d7/default-config.toml#L69-L80
2020-11-05 23:06:48	makeworld	__restrict boringcactus
2020-11-05 23:07:05	makeworld	So no UX yet, but you can create them externally and add them by editing the config
2020-11-05 23:07:17	boringcactus	ahh there that is
2020-11-05 23:07:55	makeworld	After upgrading, you can either add the sections yourself, or delete your config and the new default one will be written for you
2020-11-05 23:08:42	__restrict	ooh. Thanks.
2020-11-05 23:08:43	jcowan	You need to fill out at least one detail for Lagrange.  I just put my name in Common Name.  Otherwise such a cert would be literally a blank check.
2020-11-05 23:14:12	__restrict	Oh, wait. How do I generate a client cert? I think I've been trying to use a private key instead of a cert all along
2020-11-05 23:51:25	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-05 23:58:00		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-06 00:01:25		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-06 00:05:25		fleeky_ has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-06 00:05:25		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-06 00:06:01	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 00:18:18	bie	makeworld: caching (large) images, even for a few minutes, would break my gemini site
2020-11-06 00:19:37	bie	i have a cgi script that responds with a random photo
2020-11-06 00:20:41	bie	a much better way to handle this kind of thing would be to have one of the 2x response codes mean "this is a success and the response body can be cached"
2020-11-06 00:26:42	makeworld	Amfora doesn't do images anyway. And in the case of a CGI script, I would expect users to be reloading on their own
2020-11-06 00:26:49	makeworld	But yeah, having a status code for that would be nice
2020-11-06 00:27:31	makeworld	__restrict: To generate a private cert you can just use an openssl cert generation command, it will result in a cert file and a key file. See the Amfora README for an example command.
2020-11-06 00:28:27		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-06 00:35:26	▬▬▶	zephryn has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 00:41:41	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 01:12:47	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 01:36:06		oms has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-06 01:41:13		nytpu has quit (quit: connection reset by purr)
2020-11-06 01:41:19	▬▬▶	nytpu has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 02:25:16	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 02:25:25		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-06 02:25:25	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-11-06 02:51:45		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-06 03:23:17	khuxkm	https://gist.github.com/MineRobber9000/fd55c75b3e40ead5a9313184fdf2c54d changed my gemtext nano syntax highlighter to use Amfora's default colorscheme :)
2020-11-06 03:24:14	khuxkm	now (for the most part) opening a gemtext file in Amphora and in nano (with my highlighter) will look the same (except list items are yellow and quotes are darker green)
2020-11-06 03:30:07	khuxkm	https://ttm.sh/dFt.png here's a side-by-side comparison
2020-11-06 03:32:41		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-06 03:33:22	makeworld	Haha nice!
2020-11-06 03:42:01	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 03:55:45	▬▬▶	lowkey- has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 03:58:10	khuxkm	>a much better way to handle this kind of thing would be to have one of the 2x response codes mean "this is a success and the response body can be cached"
2020-11-06 03:58:31	khuxkm	i would argue the better avenue would be a 2x code for "this is a success and don't cache this"
2020-11-06 03:58:50	khuxkm	the bulk of the content on gemini space is text, which can (and probably should) be cached
2020-11-06 03:59:19	khuxkm	but, for example, a script that returns a random image, or a random name, etc. shouldn't be cached
2020-11-06 04:00:00		avane has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-11-06 04:04:16	▬▬▶	lowkey_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 04:04:53		lowkey has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by lowkey_))
2020-11-06 04:04:53	ℹ 	lowkey_ is now known as lowkey
2020-11-06 04:05:12	▬▬▶	lowkey| has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 04:18:50	makeworld	^^
2020-11-06 04:20:25		lowkey- has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb1 - https://znc.in)
2020-11-06 04:31:22		lowkey has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-06 04:51:13	khuxkm	in other news I'm updating my plaintext copies of my fanfiction (some of my fanfiction is available at gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/writing)
2020-11-06 04:56:44	bie	khuxkm: absolutely nothing in the spec suggests that
2020-11-06 04:57:48	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 04:58:04		lowkey has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-06 05:01:07	bie	and you can't tell what's a script and what's not
2020-11-06 05:01:43	bie	even assuming the bulk of the content is text, how do you separate between dynamically updated text (a list of gemlog posts) and a static file?
2020-11-06 05:02:31	bie	caching increases complexity which is why i think the "feel free to cache this" response status should be the exceptionn
2020-11-06 05:09:39	khuxkm	well most people don't use long caches
2020-11-06 05:09:46	khuxkm	amfora caches to the end of the session I believe
2020-11-06 05:10:00	khuxkm	this isn't like the web where you cache things for, like, weeks at a time
2020-11-06 05:10:21	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 05:10:40	khuxkm	basically, if you want to cache things, you can cache things, which is why I feel it's more important to be able to say "do not under any circumstances cache this response"
2020-11-06 05:11:36	khuxkm	nothing would stop you from making your gemlog post list return, say, `22 text/gemini` (`22` in this case being the 2x "SUCCESS - DO NOT CACHE")
2020-11-06 05:12:14	khuxkm	a static file can probably be cached, and a dynamically updated text (in most servers) has the ability to return a non-20 status code
2020-11-06 05:12:19	low-key	I'm trying to run gmnisrv for the first time and I get gmnisrv: src/tls.c:68: tls_host_gencert: Assertion `pf' failed
2020-11-06 05:12:52	bie	khuxkm: the point is that you can't tell what's static and what's not
2020-11-06 05:13:44	khuxkm	I fail to see how that invalidates my point
2020-11-06 05:14:08	khuxkm	the stuff that is very obviously dynamic (i.e; scripts) can return a non-20 status code
2020-11-06 05:14:34	bie	sure, that's a *possibility*, but it would break current sites
2020-11-06 05:14:48	khuxkm	even if "static" updated files that "shouldn't" be cached end up cached, nobody's making caches last weeks
2020-11-06 05:14:59	khuxkm	how would it break current sites?
2020-11-06 05:15:10	bie	like the random photo thing
2020-11-06 05:15:19	bie	sure i could make it return a 22, but amfora would still cache it for now
2020-11-06 05:15:33	bie	and i really don't think that's supported by the spec
2020-11-06 05:15:46	login	do you pronounce it jemini or game-ini?
2020-11-06 05:15:55	khuxkm	I'm just using 22 as a placeholder example, I'm not saying to actually return a 22 code
2020-11-06 05:16:35	khuxkm	but in this hypothetical universe where 22 is defined as SUCCESS - DO NOT CACHE in the actual spec, it's assumed that clients would keep up
2020-11-06 05:16:58	khuxkm	and amfora in this hypothetical universe wouldn't cache your 22 response
2020-11-06 05:17:14	login	just put some text on the page saying "don't cache this"
2020-11-06 05:17:19	bie	i totally get that, but the point of the extended status codes is to enable more complex client behavior
2020-11-06 05:17:29	login	and have a way for clients to invalidate the cache by pressing shift+refresh
2020-11-06 05:17:29	bie	and i think "not caching anything at all" is the reasonable default here
2020-11-06 05:17:36	bie	caching is the advanced behavior
2020-11-06 05:17:49	login	will there be an etag?
2020-11-06 05:18:08	bie	i can't put text on the page, login, it's image data
2020-11-06 05:18:34	login	oh, i see
2020-11-06 05:20:42	low-key	Am I just missing some dependency?
2020-11-06 05:20:50	low-key	I already have my certs in place
2020-11-06 05:23:10	nytpu	it looks like it may be a permission error
2020-11-06 05:23:17	low-key	Oh
2020-11-06 05:23:23	nytpu	looking at the code: https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gmnisrv/tree/master/src/tls.c#L68
2020-11-06 05:23:24	low-key	For my certs?
2020-11-06 05:23:50	nytpu	line 68 is where the error is, and it's asserting that it can open a file
2020-11-06 05:24:01	bie	oh, and it's trying to open it for writing
2020-11-06 05:24:12	nytpu	so the file isn't able to be opened for some reason
2020-11-06 05:24:18	bie	it's trying to create a new certificate
2020-11-06 05:24:25	low-key	You were right!
2020-11-06 05:24:29	low-key	Permission error it was!
2020-11-06 05:24:37	low-key	Running gmnisrv with sudo fixed it.
2020-11-06 05:24:40	login	don't give it write permission, the certificate might replace it!
2020-11-06 05:24:49	login	*certificate might get overwritten
2020-11-06 05:25:06	low-key	Figure I should have moved it to some directory my user can write in instead of putting it in /var/lib
2020-11-06 05:25:35	login	why does it need to write to the file?
2020-11-06 05:25:39	nytpu	do you want it to generate certs for you? that's what that function is trying to do it looks like
2020-11-06 05:26:07	nytpu	i'd make sure that your configuration is write, it might be looking in the wrong spot so it decides to generate them for you
2020-11-06 05:26:18	nytpu	s/write/right/
2020-11-06 05:26:18	low-key	I already generated my certs using gemcert
2020-11-06 05:26:32	low-key	I put it exactly where my config is looking for it
2020-11-06 05:26:36	low-key	I just used the example config
2020-11-06 05:29:03	nytpu	hmm
2020-11-06 05:29:41	nytpu	it looks like it calls `tls_host_gencert` in `tls_host_init` if it can't open any of the requisite files
2020-11-06 05:29:44	low-key	Trying to access my site gives me connection closed by peer
2020-11-06 05:29:58	low-key	Ohh
2020-11-06 05:30:12	nytpu	so it can't read either the key or the cert
2020-11-06 05:30:29	nytpu	and the connection closed by peer *sounds* like a tls error
2020-11-06 05:30:33	low-key	But I do have it up and running now
2020-11-06 05:30:39	low-key	It said gmnisrv started
2020-11-06 05:31:02	low-key	When I try accessing the site, the server shows a SSL accept error
2020-11-06 05:31:31	nytpu	what browser are you using?
2020-11-06 05:31:54	low-key	Ariane
2020-11-06 05:31:57	low-key	On Android
2020-11-06 05:32:10	low-key	Could you see if you can view it? It's gemini://low-key.me
2020-11-06 05:32:20	nytpu	i was just about to ask if you minded me testing it
2020-11-06 05:32:51	low-key	I just checked the directory and it created a new cert and key instead of simply using the one I had put in there.
2020-11-06 05:33:05	nytpu	do you have tcp port 1965 open on your firewall?
2020-11-06 05:33:36	nytpu	i'm getting connection refused on both bombadillo on my vps and on kristall on my desktop
2020-11-06 05:33:59	nytpu	so it looks like i'm not even getting to gmnisrv at all
2020-11-06 05:34:10	low-key	I do have it open
2020-11-06 05:34:12	low-key	Let me confirm
2020-11-06 05:34:24	low-key	Yup, it's open
2020-11-06 05:34:54	low-key	SSL accept error: error:1417A0C1:SSL routines:tls_post_process_client_hello:no shared cipher
2020-11-06 05:35:01	low-key	This is what the server is throwing now
2020-11-06 05:35:31	low-key	In my gmnisrv.ini, should the localhost bit be changed to my actual domain?
2020-11-06 05:35:53	ew0k	I tried to access from rocketeer too
2020-11-06 05:36:09	nytpu	try that, it might not be liking being bound to localhost if it's using sni
2020-11-06 05:36:47	bie	low-key: yes, should definitely be changed
2020-11-06 05:36:59	nytpu	are you bound to localhost or 0.0.0.0? sometimes on other software localhost doesn't work but 0.0.0.0 does for some reason
2020-11-06 05:37:11	low-key	Can I share my config here?
2020-11-06 05:37:13	nytpu	but that's usually when using nginx to reverse-proxy
2020-11-06 05:37:21	nytpu	and yeah it'd be nice to see the whole config
2020-11-06 05:38:04	low-key	Space-separated list of hosts
2020-11-06 05:38:06	low-key	listen=0.0.0.0:1965 [::]:1965
2020-11-06 05:38:08	low-key	[:tls]
2020-11-06 05:38:10	low-key	# Path to store certificates on disk
2020-11-06 05:38:12	low-key	store=/var/lib/gemini/certs
2020-11-06 05:38:14	low-key	# Optional details for new certificates                       organization=low-key
2020-11-06 05:38:16	low-key	[localhost]
2020-11-06 05:38:18	low-key	root=/home/loki/low-key.me/gemini
2020-11-06 05:38:20	low-key	This is it.
2020-11-06 05:39:36	nytpu	yeah, the first thing i'd change would be `listen=0.0.0.0:1965...` to `listen=low-key.me:1965`
2020-11-06 05:40:19	bie	low-key: it was up for a second lol
2020-11-06 05:40:21	low-key	🙈🙈🙈
2020-11-06 05:40:25	nytpu	oh yeah definitely change `[localhost]` to `[low-key.me]` too
2020-11-06 05:40:33	low-key	Okay, so that should do it?
2020-11-06 05:40:52	nytpu	yeah, hopefully
2020-11-06 05:41:12	low-key	How should the ipv6 part of it look?
2020-11-06 05:41:19	low-key	Do I just leave it as is?
2020-11-06 05:41:28	nytpu	i'd remove it
2020-11-06 05:41:36	low-key	I take it that's what the [::] bit is.
2020-11-06 05:41:38	low-key	Oh
2020-11-06 05:42:35	nytpu	it probably will bind to both anyways if you're using a domain
2020-11-06 05:43:08	low-key	Gmnisrv won't start now
2020-11-06 05:43:14	low-key	Says invalid address specification
2020-11-06 05:43:39	nytpu	try changing listen back to what it was before then
2020-11-06 05:43:49	nytpu	`listen=0.0.0.0:1965 [::]:1965`
2020-11-06 05:45:46	low-key	Thank you people!
2020-11-06 05:45:48	low-key	That worked!
2020-11-06 05:45:53	low-key	I have my own capsule now!
2020-11-06 05:45:57	low-key	🥳
2020-11-06 05:45:57	nytpu	hey i can get to it!
2020-11-06 05:45:59	nytpu	congrats!
2020-11-06 05:46:01	bie	low-key: congrats :D
2020-11-06 05:46:05	low-key	Thank you so, so much!
2020-11-06 05:46:13	low-key	:D
2020-11-06 05:49:47	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 06:07:57		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-06 06:34:25	ew0k	low-key: well done! :D
2020-11-06 07:29:23	▬▬▶	nixo_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 07:30:11		nixo_ has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-06 07:50:23	bie	hm, yeah i'll give it some time, but if the consensus in the gemini community is that caching responses is ok i'm probably out
2020-11-06 07:51:28	bie	what makes the protocol interesting to me is that it's *not* just a file transfer protocol
2020-11-06 07:51:32	bie	while still remaining minimalistic
2020-11-06 07:52:19	bie	if clients start assuming that an image/jpeg response or a text/gemini response can be cached because it's "probably a static file" or whatever then the fun stuff i want to make is just going to break
2020-11-06 08:01:31	jan6	maybe someday I will have enough shell scripts to write an actual gemin client and some sort of UI, for now I have a start of a menu system, kinda, it's of the "rolling cylinder" type, https://github.com/Jan69/stuff/blob/main/sh/sel/sel.sh
2020-11-06 08:02:17	jan6	tbh all I'd need to do is wire together gemini_get and get the links on the page, and put them in this menu, and it'd be a basic client
2020-11-06 08:02:18	jan6	hmm
2020-11-06 08:04:43	khuxkm	ugh
2020-11-06 08:04:51	khuxkm	why is Python so annoying
2020-11-06 08:08:39	jan6	bc py-ton-o-annoyances
2020-11-06 08:08:42	★	jan6 off
2020-11-06 08:10:26	khuxkm	so the main issue is trying to get Python to accept a peer cert that ISN'T signed by a CA
2020-11-06 08:11:47	bie	oh wow
2020-11-06 08:12:40	khuxkm	for ssl.CERT_OPTIONAL:
2020-11-06 08:12:41	khuxkm	>In server mode, a client certificate request is sent to the client. The client may either ignore the request or send a certificate in order perform TLS client cert authentication. If the client chooses to send a certificate, it is verified. Any verification error immediately aborts the TLS handshake.
2020-11-06 08:13:07	khuxkm	and guess what happens when you try to verify the self-signed certificate?
2020-11-06 08:14:40	khuxkm	the best part is that there's no way around it unless I can somehow short-circuit the CA check?
2020-11-06 08:15:26	khuxkm	because if I choose CERT_NONE, the client just isn't asked for a cert, and CERT_REQUIRED also, unsurprisingly, wants to verify the cert
2020-11-06 08:16:18	bie	when i did this with libressl i had to set tls_config_verify_client_optional AND tls_config_insecure_noverifycert
2020-11-06 08:16:50	bie	i'm guessing the python library wraps openssl/libressl?
2020-11-06 08:17:26	khuxkm	I think so?
2020-11-06 08:17:54	khuxkm	I don't see a "noverifycert" or "verify_client_optional" choice
2020-11-06 08:20:11	bie	yeah, i'm looking at the docs now.. that's weird
2020-11-06 08:20:51	khuxkm	but yeah I don't see a way around it
2020-11-06 08:21:06	khuxkm	https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/master/Modules/_ssl.c#L3050 this is the function that gets called when you set the verify mode
2020-11-06 08:22:43	khuxkm	maybe there could be some ctypes shenanigans?
2020-11-06 08:23:24	khuxkm	but I doubt it
2020-11-06 08:23:58	bie	that's annoying, yeahhhh
2020-11-06 08:24:00	khuxkm	basically, it would entail somehow injecting a verification function that just blindly accepted the cert it was given
2020-11-06 08:26:23	khuxkm	the worst part is that you can, in fact, get the client to not verify the server, but not the other way around
2020-11-06 08:26:26	khuxkm	that's so dumb
2020-11-06 08:26:48	bie	lol yeah
2020-11-06 08:27:27	khuxkm	now the question: do I go bitch in freenode/#python about it
2020-11-06 08:27:33	khuxkm	...where do I even go to bitch about it?
2020-11-06 08:27:39	khuxkm	is it openssl's fault?
2020-11-06 08:27:45	khuxkm	I don't think it's openssl's fault
2020-11-06 08:27:49	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 08:27:49	bie	i think it's the python library
2020-11-06 08:28:23	bie	which i guess is  like... part of the standard library...?
2020-11-06 08:29:16	khuxkm	yeah this is part of the stdlib
2020-11-06 08:31:14	khuxkm	I mean, I'd prefer not to have to fork the ssl library out of python stdlib just for this one gemini server project
2020-11-06 08:31:17	khuxkm	seems a little overkill
2020-11-06 08:34:01		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-06 08:50:34	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 12:10:51	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 12:56:30	ew0k	We *just* had a dicussion regarding response size on the ML, and most agreed that it doesn't have a place in the response header. And now Twin, a new gemini server, is announced that includes response size in the header by default... ?
2020-11-06 12:56:49	ew0k	disregard my question mark. I don't know why I keep adding that to statements.
2020-11-06 12:56:57	ew0k	I wonder *how* it's included
2020-11-06 13:00:37	djph	ew0k: by not following the specs? IDK :D
2020-11-06 13:02:29	ew0k	lol
2020-11-06 13:02:43	ew0k	I meant, "what does the header look like?"
2020-11-06 13:02:51	djph	oh, no idea 
2020-11-06 13:03:04	djph	i'm barely able to keep tabs on half of what you lot talk about
2020-11-06 13:04:11	nixo	ew0k: here it is https://gitlab.com/tslocum/twins/-/blob/master/serve_file.go#L127
2020-11-06 13:04:20	nixo	"%s; size=%d", mimeType, size
2020-11-06 13:04:37	ew0k	nixo: ty!
2020-11-06 13:05:08	nixo	size is the result of stat, so I guess it's in bytes
2020-11-06 13:05:28	raiz	"twins includes the response body size in the media type header by default" <-- media type == MIME?
2020-11-06 13:07:19	ew0k	CommunistWolf: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/a-spreadsheet-of-those-in-hell-how-china-corralled-uighurs-into-concentration-camps/2020/02/28/4daeca4a-58c8-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html
2020-11-06 13:07:52	raiz	oh please no, not bad news, I just woke up
2020-11-06 13:07:55	ew0k	Oh, sorry, wrong channel
2020-11-06 13:07:59	raiz	lol
2020-11-06 13:08:20	ew0k	We were talking about caching and response size here XD
2020-11-06 13:09:18	tane	where can I find a rational for gemtext not including any notion of *emphasis*? Is there any place documenting decisions/arguments other than the mailing list?
2020-11-06 13:14:58	nixo	tane: yes, it's in the specs:  The format is line-oriented, and a satisfactory rendering can be achieved with a single pass of a document, processing each line independently.
2020-11-06 13:15:26	nixo	no wrong line
2020-11-06 13:17:05	nixo	for links it's " There is no need for clients to scan each line character-by-character, testing for the presence of some special link syntax.".  I guess it applies to emphasis, too
2020-11-06 13:18:06	nixo	when you add emphasis, you need a way to escape it.  You have cases in which its rendering depends on implementation: (like ***).  I think it's just to keep it easy
2020-11-06 13:19:11	tane	yeah, makes sense, thanks
2020-11-06 13:20:33	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 13:35:04	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 13:37:36	▬▬▶	felix has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 13:53:56	bie	you can still do emphasis and do a single pass, though
2020-11-06 13:54:12	bie	not saying it would be necessary, of course
2020-11-06 13:56:24	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 14:00:46	nixo	bie: assuming that it's impossible to put emphasis on a single *, or requiring an escape character
2020-11-06 14:01:19	acdw	did yall see this: https://oldvcr.blogspot.com/2020/11/a-gopher-view-of-gemini.html ?
2020-11-06 14:01:53	nixo	gopher view of gemini, hosted on http :D
2020-11-06 14:02:32	acdw	lol
2020-11-06 14:02:37	acdw	it's a good article tho!
2020-11-06 14:03:51	bie	nixo: kind of depends on how you're defining single pass, too, i guess
2020-11-06 14:04:00	bie	i was thinking line by line, but one line in the buffer at a time
2020-11-06 14:04:16	bie	if it's character by character then it gets a bit more difficult
2020-11-06 14:04:44	felix	Cameron Kaiser is awesome.
2020-11-06 14:08:31	felix	Folks, look. I have a question. Been quietly lurking lately.
2020-11-06 14:08:49	felix	Can't help but notice how much of what people want boils down to,
2020-11-06 14:09:00		nixo has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-06 14:09:07	felix	adding about 80% of HTTP and HTML 1.0 back to Gemini.
2020-11-06 14:09:41	felix	Maybe, just maybe, that stuff was actually well thought out?
2020-11-06 14:09:59	CommunistWolf	something can be well-thought-out for goal X, but poorly thought out for goal Y
2020-11-06 14:10:26	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 14:10:54	felix	And who decides what the goal of Gemini is?
2020-11-06 14:11:12	felix	Because again, a lot people seem to very much want all that stuff added in.
2020-11-06 14:11:22	CommunistWolf	solderpunk, more or less
2020-11-06 14:11:23	felix	of*
2020-11-06 14:11:37	bie	i'm good with gemini just the way it is
2020-11-06 14:11:57	felix	Indeed? So all the people who use Gemini now don't have a say?
2020-11-06 14:12:03	bie	of course they do
2020-11-06 14:12:10	CommunistWolf	a say, yes. a decision, no
2020-11-06 14:12:10	bie	but when they take it in a direction i don't like, i'm out
2020-11-06 14:12:17	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 14:12:21	bie	or i guess
2020-11-06 14:12:22	felix	bie: if you're personally fine with it, that's fair.
2020-11-06 14:12:27	CommunistWolf	they can always create a gemini++ or a gemini-- of course
2020-11-06 14:12:37	raiz	the annoyance is that mailing list is 80% feature proposals
2020-11-06 14:12:41	bie	when solderpunk starts taking it in a direction i don't like
2020-11-06 14:12:43	CommunistWolf	but it doe srather seem that gemini is entirely controlled by solderpunk
2020-11-06 14:12:54	bie	raiz: i feel kind of bad about my first post being a "feature proposal"
2020-11-06 14:12:56	raiz	also, I'm with bie on this, once it gets out of hand, I'll pack and leave
2020-11-06 14:12:57	felix	If the web had worked like that, we'd have about a million webs now, all incompatible.
2020-11-06 14:13:06	CommunistWolf	it did work like that
2020-11-06 14:13:08	bie	even though the only reason i did it was that clients are adding a feature i don't like lol
2020-11-06 14:13:32	CommunistWolf	http and html evolved through many, many incompatible extensions that were adopted or abandoned over time
2020-11-06 14:13:43	raiz	I'm absolutely against adding protocol mechanism for caching less than 1kb text
2020-11-06 14:14:01	bie	raiz: i'm against caching more than that, too
2020-11-06 14:14:28	bie	i'd like to use gemini for serving generated images, and when clients just serve the same thing again and again, that's no fun
2020-11-06 14:14:29	raiz	especially using response codes, how does one determine this file is cachable or not? do we write response codes in gemtext now?
2020-11-06 14:15:23	raiz	also, what happens if gemini was used for streaming? does the browser cache all the stream?
2020-11-06 14:15:49	raiz	what if the browser doesn't understand such response codes as they're not mandatory
2020-11-06 14:16:08	raiz	the bare minimum a browser can do is read the first digit of responses
2020-11-06 14:17:03	acdw	caching--
2020-11-06 14:17:06	acdw	who needs caching
2020-11-06 14:17:17	acdw	tho... energy usage
2020-11-06 14:17:19	acdw	hm
2020-11-06 14:17:34	raiz	<1kb isn't much
2020-11-06 14:18:30	bie	i'm very very very skeptical when it comes to energy usage arguments
2020-11-06 14:19:24	bie	especially when it comes to niche protocols like gemini
2020-11-06 14:19:35	acdw	fair enough, sort of like htose blog posts "saving the planet by using system fonts"
2020-11-06 14:19:41	acdw	like,,,,,, that's Not a Thing
2020-11-06 14:19:49	bie	yeah, exactly
2020-11-06 14:20:20	bie	at netflix/google/big datacenter scale it's kind of an issue, but yeahhh
2020-11-06 14:21:17	acdw	they don't give a shit
2020-11-06 14:23:29	bie	true
2020-11-06 14:33:39	low-key	If gemini's goals are well defined, can't it just be declared feature complete?
2020-11-06 14:33:51	acdw	imo yes
2020-11-06 14:34:01	acdw	as far as i'm concerned it is
2020-11-06 14:34:02	low-key	Instead of this constant tension.
2020-11-06 14:34:08	low-key	Yeah, I came in thinking it was.
2020-11-06 14:34:21	low-key	And it feels feature complete too, at least to my understanding of what it is.
2020-11-06 14:34:21	acdw	i think there was also a mailing list item to that effect
2020-11-06 14:34:33	acdw	honestly, should be on the faq/front page of the projet
2020-11-06 14:35:50	low-key	I don't think I'd want to be a part of this too if it just means to keep being extended
2020-11-06 14:36:11	low-key	The FAQ actually stresses that it's not meant to be extensible
2020-11-06 14:36:34	low-key	I think the only proposal I liked was the emoji favicons one :P
2020-11-06 14:37:45	acdw	haha yes
2020-11-06 14:38:28		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-06 14:39:47	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 14:43:21		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-06 14:46:30	▬▬▶	swinslow_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 14:47:41		swinslow has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-06 14:48:14	bie	oh oh i like emoji favicons lol
2020-11-06 14:48:23	low-key	:D
2020-11-06 14:49:26	bie	low-key: i tried the links on your geminispace! not found!!!! 
2020-11-06 14:49:33	bie	🙀
2020-11-06 14:49:37	tane	so, a request contains an URL of up to 1024 bytes, a response status code 1x implies INPUT that needs to be appended to the URL on the next request. Doesn't this limit user input relative to the size of the base URL?
2020-11-06 14:49:52	bie	tane: yea
2020-11-06 14:50:27		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-06 14:50:54	nytpu	hopefully you don't have a 1000 byte url or you aren't expecting a 1000 byte input
2020-11-06 14:51:30	tane	doesn't matter much, it's arbitrary anyway
2020-11-06 14:51:45	▬▬▶	ace has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 14:52:17	low-key	bie: that's just the skeleton of the site
2020-11-06 14:52:36	low-key	I'll be slowly posting stuff in the days to come
2020-11-06 14:52:45	bie	👍👍👍
2020-11-06 14:52:47	low-key	This was just me wanting to figure out how to write gemtext
2020-11-06 14:52:56	low-key	And see it in action
2020-11-06 14:53:28	bie	so does anyone else have gemini sites to share~?
2020-11-06 14:53:52	bie	i've got my "personal" one at gemini://blekksprut.net and record label at gemini://higeki.jp
2020-11-06 14:55:00	▬▬▶	smlckz has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 15:00:45		smlckz has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-06 15:08:11	bie	lol i just realized my server isn't responding to ipv4
2020-11-06 15:11:22	felix	I was wondering.
2020-11-06 15:12:12		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-06 15:12:22	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 15:13:38	acdw	bie: gemini://gem.acdw.net
2020-11-06 15:14:09	bie	acdw: 🙏
2020-11-06 15:14:32	bie	i'll take a look once i figure out how to do ipv4 (usually it's ipv6 causing trouble)
2020-11-06 15:14:50	acdw	i can't access yours :/
2020-11-06 15:14:58	acdw	maybe b/c work...let me try through portal.mozz.us
2020-11-06 15:15:12	acdw	I get a connection error
2020-11-06 15:15:22	bie	pretty sure it's the ipv4/ipv6 thing
2020-11-06 15:15:43	acdw	oh, could be
2020-11-06 15:15:54	bie	on linux you can listen on both with an AF_INET6 socket, but i'm on openbsd
2020-11-06 15:16:00	bie	"OpenBSD does not route IPv4 traffic to an AF_INET6 socket, for security reasons. If both IPv4 and IPv6 traffic need to be accepted, listen on two sockets."
2020-11-06 15:20:23	acdw	oh wow
2020-11-06 15:20:25	acdw	oof
2020-11-06 15:26:29	ddevault	linux is pretty stupid here imo
2020-11-06 15:26:31	ddevault	openbsd is right
2020-11-06 15:27:03	bie	no doubt, i just didn't realize until just now
2020-11-06 15:27:05	ddevault	setsockopt(sockfd, IPPROTO_IPV6, IPV6_ONLY, &i, sizeof(i)) where i is an int equal to 1
2020-11-06 15:27:07	ddevault	to fix linux
2020-11-06 15:29:04	acdw	can youlisten on 2 sockets on 1 port?
2020-11-06 15:29:09	bie	yup
2020-11-06 15:29:25		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-06 15:29:32	acdw	oh neat, then yes
2020-11-06 15:29:35	acdw	that does sound better
2020-11-06 15:29:48	acdw	tho i admit, i don't really know what any of it means
2020-11-06 15:29:50	bie	but i'm gonna have to do a slight rewrite or... just run two processes
2020-11-06 15:33:58	ℹ 	wingy is now known as tlldebot
2020-11-06 15:34:09	ℹ 	tlldebot is now known as wingy
2020-11-06 15:41:33	ddevault	(probably a bad) idea: status code 12: multi-line input requested
2020-11-06 15:41:57	ddevault	or s/multi-line/bulk/
2020-11-06 15:42:09	ddevault	the client's follow-up request would include said input following the CRLF in the request URL
2020-11-06 15:43:09	bie	doesn't that mean the server would have to keep track of clients?
2020-11-06 15:43:41	ddevault	servers already have to do that, but sure, what of it?
2020-11-06 15:43:56	bie	not across requests, though
2020-11-06 15:44:22	ddevault	it wouldn't be different from 10 or 11 in that respect
2020-11-06 15:44:46	bie	it would in the sense that for a 10 or 11 you can still just parse the request as normal
2020-11-06 15:45:09	ddevault	aye, it would introduce some additional request processing
2020-11-06 15:45:14	bie	quite a bit more, imo
2020-11-06 15:45:24	bie	right now, like... uh
2020-11-06 15:45:29	ddevault	s/read until CRLF/read until connection is closed/
2020-11-06 15:45:31	ddevault	nbd imo
2020-11-06 15:45:40	ddevault	and it'd be backwards compatible and opt-in for server implementations
2020-11-06 15:45:54	bie	ok, yeah i see your point
2020-11-06 15:46:12	bie	if the request handling was changed to read until closed it wouldn't be a big deal
2020-11-06 15:49:52	ddevault	use-cases: long-form text input (e.g. on a BBS), file uploads
2020-11-06 15:51:23	nytpu	the benefts are pretty compelling actually
2020-11-06 15:51:42	ddevault	also is somewhat backwards compatible with unsupported clients, who can just treat it like 30
2020-11-06 15:51:56	ddevault	the server can detect this and show an error message, or process the ?input as if it were given long form
2020-11-06 15:52:03	nytpu	but i'm already seeing the mailing list: "http is right there"
2020-11-06 15:52:21	ddevault	note: I am generally strong against extending the protocol in any way
2020-11-06 15:52:27	nytpu	i am too
2020-11-06 15:52:31	ddevault	if this came up on the ML I'd be right there looking for reasons to dismiss it
2020-11-06 15:52:40	nytpu	but i'd rather have full discussion than just dismiss it saying "use http"
2020-11-06 15:53:07	nytpu	it feels like a cop-out when people don't feel like actually discussing the merits and downsides of a proposal
2020-11-06 15:54:26	@julienxx	I feel the "use http" answer is kinda needed since there are mostly two crowds coming to gemini, those from gopher and those from http each with different ideas on what to do with the protocol
2020-11-06 15:54:51	@julienxx	basically the ones want to serve text and those who wants simple apps
2020-11-06 15:55:01	felix	Y'all realize that's exactly what most people will end up doing, right?
2020-11-06 15:55:09	ddevault	at the moment, gemini's design heavily favors consumption
2020-11-06 15:55:14	ddevault	anyone who wants to produce should probably set up a gemini server
2020-11-06 15:55:18	ddevault	this is okay if we decide that's what we want
2020-11-06 15:55:38	ddevault	right now even simple BBSes are difficult to pull off within these constraints
2020-11-06 15:55:46	ddevault	not necessarily a bad thing, and the last thing I want is to build "apps" with gemini
2020-11-06 15:56:03	nytpu	i'd actually be fine with gemini as-is without changing, there are lot's of things that are like "that'd be nice to have," but isn't it missing those things by design?
2020-11-06 15:56:35	ddevault	well, let me rephrase this point
2020-11-06 15:56:46	ddevault	gemini is missing some things, and generally this is understood to be by design
2020-11-06 15:56:57	ddevault	so if we want to talk about extensions, we have to establish a philosophical framework for deciding the scope of gemini
2020-11-06 15:57:21	@julienxx	a gemini issue right now is that ithe nput type is just not enough for most interactivity
2020-11-06 15:57:27	ddevault	so, do we want a strictly consumption-oriented protocol?
2020-11-06 15:57:39	ddevault	right now basically the only use-case for input is searching
2020-11-06 15:57:43	ddevault	correct me if I'm wrong
2020-11-06 15:57:46	@julienxx	there was the titan proposal for writing stuff but I'm not sure it caught on
2020-11-06 15:57:46	bie	ddevault: guestbooks lol
2020-11-06 15:58:08	ddevault	sure, that too
2020-11-06 15:58:27	@julienxx	and kensanata did something for his wiki that elpher supports
2020-11-06 15:58:35	felix	Try a different angle: do you want a protocol that will ever be used by anyone except the nerdiest of nerds?
2020-11-06 15:58:49	ddevault	not to say that other use-cases haven't been attempted - but they're, in my opinon, deeply flawed
2020-11-06 15:59:00	nytpu	there's a lot of potential if you expanded input possibilities
2020-11-06 15:59:05	ddevault	felix: I don't want to address that line of thought. Popularity is not something that should factor into our decision making
2020-11-06 15:59:08	bie	felix: hey now, i'm using it!
2020-11-06 15:59:10	ddevault	we want something good, not something with mass appeal
2020-11-06 15:59:28	felix	Then it's perfectly all right to keep Gemini as-is.
2020-11-06 15:59:32	nytpu	i think it's pretty obvious that good stuff does not generally have mass appeal
2020-11-06 15:59:32	@julienxx	there is a lot of potential and also it's easy to redo http 1.0 without html in the end
2020-11-06 15:59:36	nytpu	look at anything anywhere
2020-11-06 15:59:39	ddevault	felix: that doesn't follow
2020-11-06 15:59:44	felix	And decide that no extensions will be considered, period.
2020-11-06 15:59:49	ddevault	that also does not follow
2020-11-06 15:59:57	bie	ddevault: i think the biggest breaking change with something like that is unrelated to read until end of line vs read until connection is closed
2020-11-06 16:00:15	bie	right now the request is limited to 1024 bytes
2020-11-06 16:00:19	ddevault	fwiw, there is some precedent here given that clients read until the connection is closed
2020-11-06 16:00:20	acdw	ddevault: that's a bad idea lol
2020-11-06 16:00:24	acdw	12 is
2020-11-06 16:00:25	bie	and i actually really like that limitation
2020-11-06 16:00:33	acdw	you could just embed \ns in there
2020-11-06 16:00:35	acdw	i ... guess
2020-11-06 16:01:05	ddevault	fwiw the exchange could be artibrarily long with e.g. TLS renegotiation
2020-11-06 16:01:12	nytpu	bie: it just prevents a lot of possibilities that could be realized with even a little bit more space
2020-11-06 16:01:40	nytpu	and that's 1024 bytes of request + url, so if you have a long url then your input length is truncated
2020-11-06 16:01:47	insep	i think i would be nice to have some options to pin stuff at the sides (like some info about author on the right and useful links on the left) and option to create multiple input fields, but first one would create problems with adaptivity and second one is very dangerous to add :\
2020-11-06 16:02:21	nytpu	i think gemini needs some modicum of real interativity, it just opens up a lot of creativity options
2020-11-06 16:02:36	ddevault	one issue with the input is that it fails to accept URLs as input
2020-11-06 16:02:47	acdw	one thing I think *might* be okay is a convention for metadata in the file, like %author: stuff
2020-11-06 16:03:03	acdw	which dumb clients could jsut display and smart ones could .. do whatever with
2020-11-06 16:03:09	ddevault	not all valid gemini URLs could be encoded as the query string of another gemini URL and produce a valid URL as a result
2020-11-06 16:03:20	nytpu	i'm actually more against that just becuase i don't like what's meant to be a freeform document into encoding semantic information
2020-11-06 16:03:26	ddevault	^
2020-11-06 16:03:29	ddevault	yeah I'm not into that one
2020-11-06 16:03:31	nytpu	that's similar to the discussion for having highlighting for code blocks
2020-11-06 16:05:32	ddevault	I appreciate that there is very little in the way of semantic information in a gemtext document
2020-11-06 16:05:46	ddevault	alt text for code blocks and the URLs for links are basically it, and both hardly count
2020-11-06 16:07:19	ddevault	the combination of gemini and gemtext in the same standard have interesting implications about how gemini is presented and discussed
2020-11-06 16:07:26	acdw	fair enough nytpu
2020-11-06 16:08:12	acdw	i agree too with ddevault -- it makes text/geminit the *de facto* standard, though technically you *can* serve any content type
2020-11-06 16:08:37	@julienxx	yeah I don't really get the complaints around presentation issues, you "could" serve html over gemini if you really wanted some kind of layout
2020-11-06 16:08:41	acdw	^
2020-11-06 16:08:42	ddevault	I am strong against gemini servers serving text/html, or gemini clients rendering it, for example
2020-11-06 16:08:53	acdw	but like...... authors *could* 
2020-11-06 16:08:56	acdw	if they *want* to
2020-11-06 16:08:56	ddevault	and I think we should stop dismissing people's arguments based on that possibility
2020-11-06 16:09:18	@julienxx	I am too for the record hence my disinterest in presentation issues
2020-11-06 16:09:19	ddevault	I can tell you with 100% certainty that my gemini browser will never display HTML
2020-11-06 16:09:46	bie	if i make a browser it will display html!
2020-11-06 16:09:48	acdw	lol
2020-11-06 16:09:50	bie	but, like
2020-11-06 16:09:56	bie	the same way it displays text/plain
2020-11-06 16:09:58	tane	verbatim html? :)
2020-11-06 16:10:10	ddevault	oh, well, mine already does that :P
2020-11-06 16:10:20	acdw	I mean---- at bottom, if someone *wants* to serve HTML, clients can just show the plain html, and then the user can download or pipe it to w3m/lynx/firefox/hatever
2020-11-06 16:10:26	acdw	so no problems htere
2020-11-06 16:10:40	bie	huh, could someone check if gemini://blekksprut.net  is responding to ipv4 now 😂
2020-11-06 16:10:43	acdw	I have this aesthetic dream of a gemini client that pops up windows for different mime-types all around it
2020-11-06 16:10:57	tane	acdw, like other applications?
2020-11-06 16:11:02	bie	acdw: that's... what i'm making actually
2020-11-06 16:11:04	bie	kind of
2020-11-06 16:11:04	acdw	bie: not yet
2020-11-06 16:11:05	@julienxx	bie: works here
2020-11-06 16:11:09	acdw	tane: yes!
2020-11-06 16:11:11	ddevault	bie: works
2020-11-06 16:11:13	acdw	i should make a thing
2020-11-06 16:11:17	bie	thanks!
2020-11-06 16:11:22	tane	acdw, I've been using "lagrange" today, it opens .html links in firefox :)
2020-11-06 16:11:24	acdw	oh it must be work's firewall
2020-11-06 16:11:27	acdw	oh that's dope 
2020-11-06 16:11:34	acdw	bie: also interested in your thing :)
2020-11-06 16:12:16	bie	i started writing a gopher client KIND OF like that last year
2020-11-06 16:13:01	ddevault	bie: かわいい猫
2020-11-06 16:13:02	bie	it didn't open os windows, but "windows" inside the app itself
2020-11-06 16:13:18	bie	ddevault: ☺️
2020-11-06 16:13:34	ddevault	サーバが超ゆっくりけど
2020-11-06 16:14:11	bie	バグだと思う
2020-11-06 16:14:19	bie	ipv6は大丈夫そうwww
2020-11-06 16:14:38	nytpu	well, i knew what the first one says but that's about it
2020-11-06 16:15:11	ddevault	でも世界ではIPV6がもういない
2020-11-06 16:15:14	ddevault	tfw no ipv6
2020-11-06 16:15:28	acdw	like this: https://ttm.sh/dFU.png
2020-11-06 16:15:30	bie	ddevault: where are you at?
2020-11-06 16:15:49	acdw	bie: nifty
2020-11-06 16:15:55	bie	acdw: yes yes! i started writing the gopher client in a game engine actually - love2d
2020-11-06 16:16:02	acdw	also I should totally make a wm theme that looks just like this
2020-11-06 16:16:03	ddevault	俺の人生ではIPV6が家から使った時がない
2020-11-06 16:16:04	acdw	bie dope af
2020-11-06 16:16:11	bie	and it was like vaporwave-themed
2020-11-06 16:16:28	ddevault	bie: philadelphia, in theory; the middle of nowhere, in practice
2020-11-06 16:16:46	acdw	oh dope AF
2020-11-06 16:17:25	bie	acdw: i wanted to pick it up again, but for gemini... kind of got stuck on the ssl stuff
2020-11-06 16:17:27	kayw	oh damn, kristall doesn't render bie's site correctly
2020-11-06 16:17:40	kayw	it doesnt know the characters and emojis
2020-11-06 16:17:55	kayw	s/kn/sh
2020-11-06 16:18:07	nytpu	it looks fine to me
2020-11-06 16:18:28	wgreenhouse	looks good on elpher
2020-11-06 16:18:29	bie	ddevault: ahhh~ the server has been up for like a week or two and i never realized ipv4 wasn't working
2020-11-06 16:18:39	bie	work, internet at home and phone all support ipv6
2020-11-06 16:18:55	nytpu	does the font kristall's using have emojis?
2020-11-06 16:18:57	ddevault	bie: where are you located?
2020-11-06 16:19:04	kayw	hmmm, odd... maybe im on an older version? I totally have the fonts to render them
2020-11-06 16:19:15	bie	ddevault: tokyo
2020-11-06 16:19:26	ddevault	are you japanese or a transplant?
2020-11-06 16:19:30	ddevault	if you don't mind the question
2020-11-06 16:19:32	kayw	nytpu: oh it might actually be because im using Fira Sans lmao
2020-11-06 16:19:37	ddevault	I lived in osaka for 3 months, loved it there
2020-11-06 16:19:53	bie	ddevault: originally from norway, but never moving back ;)
2020-11-06 16:19:56	bie	osaka is great
2020-11-06 16:20:02	ddevault	tokyo is a bit stuffy for my tastes
2020-11-06 16:20:07	nytpu	kayw: yeah i had to fiddle with the fonts
2020-11-06 16:20:12	ddevault	though you can't beat its access to all sorts of cool things
2020-11-06 16:20:48	acdw	i wanna go to japan
2020-11-06 16:21:26	kayw	same
2020-11-06 16:21:47	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 16:21:52	bie	haha i've got a window open tailing the server log
2020-11-06 16:22:09	bie	and i see people go to the random photo url but have no idea what they're getting
2020-11-06 16:23:05	kayw	aw fuck
2020-11-06 16:23:10	kayw	i just realized i made a terrible mistake
2020-11-06 16:23:23	low-key	bie: the links on your site crash my client :(
2020-11-06 16:23:27	kayw	people were using my atom.xml and i deleted it...
2020-11-06 16:23:42	kayw	i don't remember why, but I had it
2020-11-06 16:23:45	bie	low-key: oops i'm sorry 😂 oh is it the ios one?
2020-11-06 16:23:52	low-key	It's the Android one
2020-11-06 16:23:54	low-key	Ariane
2020-11-06 16:23:56	bie	ahh ok
2020-11-06 16:24:15	bie	never tried that one, but it's a known bug on the ios client
2020-11-06 16:24:43	acdw	bie: I like the random photos! very cool
2020-11-06 16:24:51	nytpu	really can't handle tx responses?
2020-11-06 16:24:55	bie	acdw: thanks!
2020-11-06 16:25:05	nytpu	s/tx/5x/
2020-11-06 16:25:12	acdw	D:
2020-11-06 16:25:13	acdw	:D
2020-11-06 16:25:13	acdw	*
2020-11-06 16:25:48	bie	...2044 photos in total
2020-11-06 16:25:53	low-key	The random photo link just throws an error for me
2020-11-06 16:26:08	low-key	Should I be reporting this to Ariane's dev?
2020-11-06 16:26:13	low-key	I wonder if they're on this server
2020-11-06 16:26:33	bie	low-key: i wanna try something if it's ok... the "front page" works for you, right?
2020-11-06 16:27:10	kayw	shit. someone remind me: what's the peice of software that'll make an atom.xml for a gemlog
2020-11-06 16:27:57	acdw	solderpunk made it
2020-11-06 16:28:14	acdw	https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/gemfeed
2020-11-06 16:28:18	kayw	that was it
2020-11-06 16:28:21	kayw	thanks acdw 
2020-11-06 16:28:30	acdw	:D
2020-11-06 16:28:31	acdw	yw
2020-11-06 16:29:37	low-key	bie: yup!
2020-11-06 16:29:38	bie	ddevault: i kind of get what you're saying about tokyo... but i've made more friends in 3 years here than the preceding 15 years in norway. got really lucky, i think
2020-11-06 16:29:51	nytpu	adcw: i can't do anything original can i, i wrote pretty much the exact same thing
2020-11-06 16:29:52	bie	low-key: i added a new link with just ascii characters in the url just for you
2020-11-06 16:30:08	bie	should show up if you reload the /
2020-11-06 16:30:17	low-key	Yessir
2020-11-06 16:30:41	low-key	Okay, even that crashed my browser
2020-11-06 16:30:51	low-key	Lemme try from amfora on my laptop
2020-11-06 16:30:53	bie	ok then it's probably the big image :)
2020-11-06 16:31:13	acdw	lol nytpu
2020-11-06 16:31:23	acdw	make another one!
2020-11-06 16:31:28	acdw	make yr own software
2020-11-06 16:31:35	acdw	softwarepunk
2020-11-06 16:32:00	nytpu	mine's more of a ripoff of bashblog tho
2020-11-06 16:32:05	acdw	noice!
2020-11-06 16:32:32	ddevault	still tailing those logs, bie?
2020-11-06 16:32:53	bie	ddevault: haha that's you bringing some color?
2020-11-06 16:33:00	ddevault	yep
2020-11-06 16:33:04	bie	nice!
2020-11-06 16:33:58	★	ddevault telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl | nc blekksprut.net 1965
2020-11-06 16:34:43	bie	lol
2020-11-06 16:36:25	kayw	ok fixed my atom.xml
2020-11-06 16:37:46	acdw	rad
2020-11-06 16:38:03	acdw	but do you know where your towel is?
2020-11-06 16:38:08	bie	acdw: nice cottage!
2020-11-06 16:38:30	acdw	:D thanks!
2020-11-06 16:41:41	nytpu	does anyone know of a good embedded tls library?
2020-11-06 16:41:54	nytpu	i'm looking to go to the extremes of gemini clients
2020-11-06 16:47:15	raiz	ok, guys I think I agree with this change, 10 and 11 are a bit flawed by design due to the request size limit, what comes to mind is that there is no way of determining the available size for search queries, or password inputs for that matter, passwords should not be limited by length.  There's also the scenario of the URL taking all space that there is no space for the input
2020-11-06 16:47:15	raiz	string anymore, that is a very possible scenario and it shouldn't be dealt with.  Instead of proposing a new 12 response code, I'd suggest reworking 10 and 11, but until now, I'm not going to propose any change because I haven't implemented the protocol yet and I might not have enough perspective to make such calls, but just something to keep in mind for the future.
2020-11-06 16:47:54	acdw	okay but like, ,,,, 1024 is a *huge* limit
2020-11-06 16:48:12	acdw	if you have a 2000 character password, uh
2020-11-06 16:48:16	raiz	indeed, but how can we tell what's left of it?
2020-11-06 16:48:32	nytpu	yeah hopefully your url isn't 1024 characters long lol
2020-11-06 16:48:34	raiz	s/until now/until then
2020-11-06 16:48:43	acdw	you could try asking the author of GUS for the longest URL on geminispace, but I doubt there's one longer than 200 characters
2020-11-06 16:48:49	raiz	I'm suggesting in the hypothetical scenario
2020-11-06 16:48:59	acdw	yeah, but those don't really happen
2020-11-06 16:49:01	raiz	what about onion v3 addresses?
2020-11-06 16:49:19	raiz	for tor hidden services?
2020-11-06 16:49:21	acdw	how long are those?
2020-11-06 16:49:33	★	raiz pulls out a ruler
2020-11-06 16:49:36	raiz	sec...
2020-11-06 16:49:48	acdw	You can identify a next-generation onion address by its length: they are 56 characters long,
2020-11-06 16:50:23	acdw	whch...is long, but nowhere near 1024 lol
2020-11-06 16:50:39	raiz	yeah
2020-11-06 16:51:02	makeworld	bie: Cool capsule! Nice job encoding the links correctly ;)
2020-11-06 16:51:02	raiz	I don't know, I just don't like how the input size is not determined
2020-11-06 16:51:14	nytpu	i was thinking it'd be interesting to have some sort of text adventure, but even then input lines wouldn't ever be more than like... 15 characters
2020-11-06 16:51:15	raiz	or rather, not persistent
2020-11-06 16:51:27	bie	makeworld: thanks!
2020-11-06 16:51:30	makeworld	Yeah it's a bit annoying but practically it doesn't really matter raiz
2020-11-06 16:51:41	raiz	yeah, you're right
2020-11-06 16:51:45	nytpu	and i think the limit is nice and long, i'm not too worried about the length
2020-11-06 16:51:47	raiz	anyway...
2020-11-06 16:51:50	★	raiz moves on
2020-11-06 16:52:01	makeworld	nytpu: Why not? If you use a client cert to keep state you can just keep the same base URL instead of nesting
2020-11-06 16:52:09	raiz	I just realized the longest password I have is 64 characters long
2020-11-06 16:52:12	nytpu	yeah, that's what i was planning
2020-11-06 16:52:27	nytpu	i was saying even for an interactive game it wouldn't even come close to the input limit
2020-11-06 16:52:51	makeworld	Ohh I misread your msg, thought you were complaining
2020-11-06 16:53:06	bie	client certs really open up a lot of fun possibilities
2020-11-06 16:53:07	makeworld	I was like wth kind of text adv. game is this where you're typing hundreds of characters lol
2020-11-06 16:53:23	nytpu	the main reason for longer lines would be if you wanted content authorship in geminispace itself instead of via sftp
2020-11-06 16:53:28	nytpu	or like, file uploads or something
2020-11-06 16:53:30	makeworld	bie: They sure do! Astrobotany is an awesome "demo"
2020-11-06 16:53:43	makeworld	Ah yeah that's been discussed a lot on the mailing list
2020-11-06 16:54:22	makeworld	Increasing the limit to 8192 was suggested, and several alternative protocols were proposed
2020-11-06 16:54:34	makeworld	And gemlog.blue was created to fill the gap
2020-11-06 16:54:50	makeworld	https://gemlog.blue and gemini://gemlog.bue
2020-11-06 16:54:52	makeworld	*blue
2020-11-06 16:55:00	nytpu	i don't know, i've seen proposals for "sidecar protocols" that let you do stuff like that out-of-band
2020-11-06 16:55:10	nytpu	and i was just about to mention gemlog.blue
2020-11-06 16:55:11	makeworld	Yeah that's what I mean. Titan is one example
2020-11-06 16:55:15	makeworld	Oh ha
2020-11-06 16:55:25	makeworld	None of them have really caught on that much, but personally I don't mind
2020-11-06 16:55:48	acdw	i like the sidecar protocol stuff
2020-11-06 16:55:57	acdw	i like the iea of micro-protocols that all do one thing
2020-11-06 16:56:10	aravk	^
2020-11-06 16:56:12	bie	yeahhh i like that too
2020-11-06 16:56:28	nytpu	i have mixed opinions, becuase on one hand, it creates fragmentation, but on the other i do like having the unix philosophy for protocols
2020-11-06 16:57:07	makeworld	Yeah. My mine problem with the micro protocols proposed is that they don't really exist outside the mailing list. I want them to have a website, and/or a git repo, so that they can be standardized and tracked
2020-11-06 16:57:12	makeworld	*My main
2020-11-06 16:57:18	ddevault	an issue with multiple protocols
2020-11-06 16:57:22	ddevault	is that it offloads complexity onto clients
2020-11-06 16:57:26	ddevault	I like one binary == one protocol
2020-11-06 16:57:54	ddevault	and unless you build some kind of meta browser that defers protocol knowledge to a bunch of other programs and uses some meta protocol to... nevermind, this is disgusting
2020-11-06 16:57:59	nytpu	and yeah, it makes me think of xmpp where you can't just implement a protocol, you have to deal with all the random extensions that change all the time
2020-11-06 16:58:28	ddevault	its always bothered me that curl does anything other than HTTP, for instance
2020-11-06 16:58:29	nytpu	and it means that some clients might have this featureset and some might have this different featureset depending on what protocols they implement
2020-11-06 16:59:21	makeworld	curl is explicitly multi-protocol though
2020-11-06 16:59:30	makeworld	Like it's supposed to be a swiss army knife I thought
2020-11-06 16:59:59	ddevault	the only program which I appreciate grokking many protocols is probably ffmpeg
2020-11-06 17:00:23	nytpu	but even ffmpeg offloads a lot to those protocols respective libraries, right?
2020-11-06 17:00:24	makeworld	Cause that's the point of it, isn't it?
2020-11-06 17:00:48	acdw	ddevault: yesssss that's what i'm talking about
2020-11-06 17:00:52	acdw	META BRWOSER
2020-11-06 17:00:53	ddevault	I don't generally like libraries as a solution to a problem
2020-11-06 17:00:59	makeworld	nytpu: I think they write a lot of their own libs
2020-11-06 17:01:08	acdw	of course, i'm not a dev really, so..... 
2020-11-06 17:01:24	makeworld	Once you have 2 meta browsers than the need for meta-meta-browsers is imminent
2020-11-06 17:01:29	acdw	ddevault: you should write hurl, which is curl but *just* http :P
2020-11-06 17:01:36	ddevault	no
2020-11-06 17:01:38	acdw	lol
2020-11-06 17:01:40	ddevault	I don't want to implement http
2020-11-06 17:01:47	acdw	oof fair enough
2020-11-06 17:01:53	acdw	good name tho -- in line with 'shit'
2020-11-06 17:02:12	makeworld	There is no just HTTP, you'd have to support 0.9, 1, 1.1, 2, and later: 3
2020-11-06 17:02:13	★	acdw is a name-driven developer
2020-11-06 17:02:19	makeworld	Haha
2020-11-06 17:02:22	acdw	yeesh yeah no thanks
2020-11-06 17:02:29	acdw	Gemini 2.3
2020-11-06 17:02:33	makeworld	Oh no
2020-11-06 17:02:36	acdw	ha
2020-11-06 17:02:41	@tomasino	https://oldvcr.blogspot.com/2020/11/a-gopher-view-of-gemini.html
2020-11-06 17:03:46	makeworld	> scripting is for playwrights
2020-11-06 17:03:48	makeworld	Nice one
2020-11-06 17:04:53	acdw	tomasino: pretty sure i posted that earlier this morning XD
2020-11-06 17:07:02	makeworld	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25008938
2020-11-06 17:07:11	makeworld	We'll what HN thinks... lol
2020-11-06 17:08:13	raiz	acdw: http://git.codemadness.org/hurl/file/README.html
2020-11-06 17:08:43	acdw	makeworld: LOL
2020-11-06 17:08:46	acdw	raiz: dope!
2020-11-06 17:08:55	raiz	acdw: you could do something similar to metabrowser right now using something like plan 9 plumbing
2020-11-06 17:09:06	acdw	heck yes
2020-11-06 17:09:07	ddevault	acme is kind of a meta-browser
2020-11-06 17:09:09	acdw	hto..plan 9
2020-11-06 17:09:14	acdw	i don't wanna plan9
2020-11-06 17:09:18	acdw	the movie was bad enough
2020-11-06 17:09:18	ddevault	bullshit
2020-11-06 17:09:21	ddevault	everyone wanna plan9
2020-11-06 17:09:29	makeworld	Haha sure seems that way on fedi
2020-11-06 17:09:29	raiz	lol
2020-11-06 17:09:38	acdw	i've been pushing against it
2020-11-06 17:09:44	acdw	i'm sure one day i'll switch 
2020-11-06 17:09:50	ddevault	plan 9 is literally god
2020-11-06 17:09:53	ddevault	worship at its feet
2020-11-06 17:10:00	makeworld	I haven't seen anyone actually switch, am I wrong?
2020-11-06 17:10:03	makeworld	Lolol
2020-11-06 17:10:10	makeworld	Wanna pitch it ddevault?
2020-11-06 17:10:16	acdw	ddevault: I thought that was TempleOS?
2020-11-06 17:10:18	@julienxx	plan9 is the best os evar, I think I got into it after one of your toots ddevault :)
2020-11-06 17:10:22	ddevault	literally everything plan 9 does is better than literally everything any OS does, makeworld 
2020-11-06 17:10:30	acdw	okay, what's the plan9 os i should instal?
2020-11-06 17:10:34	acdw	9front?
2020-11-06 17:10:36	makeworld	Damn that's pretty compelling
2020-11-06 17:10:41	ddevault	yes, 9front is the best
2020-11-06 17:10:53	makeworld	http://9fs.net/
2020-11-06 17:10:54	raiz	ddevault: that's debatable
2020-11-06 17:10:56	makeworld	This?
2020-11-06 17:10:56	acdw	also .... i'm ashamed of htis, but i never *really* figured out qemu
2020-11-06 17:11:04	acdw	raiz: what's the best then
2020-11-06 17:11:04	ddevault	raiz: correct
2020-11-06 17:11:06	ddevault	raiz: let's not
2020-11-06 17:11:07	★	acdw watches a fight
2020-11-06 17:11:13	raiz	9p is the best thing about plan 9, yet it's the worst thing about it too
2020-11-06 17:11:31	ddevault	how about this exercise
2020-11-06 17:11:37	ddevault	name something you like about linux and I'll tell you how plan 9 does it better
2020-11-06 17:11:48	raiz	I won't praise linux
2020-11-06 17:11:50	@julienxx	systemd
2020-11-06 17:11:55	ddevault	next
2020-11-06 17:12:13	acdw	system...e?
2020-11-06 17:12:13	nytpu	if plan9 doesn't have systemd then i'm entirely on board
2020-11-06 17:12:14	insep	vim
2020-11-06 17:12:23	ddevault	plan 9 has a vim port
2020-11-06 17:12:28	ddevault	but acme is an interesting editor that you should try
2020-11-06 17:12:52	acdw	i don't have an old school 3 button mouse
2020-11-06 17:12:55	acdw	tho... i should get one
2020-11-06 17:12:57	ddevault	its "plugin" API is better than vim by orders of magnitude without being the gross undulating mass that is emacs
2020-11-06 17:13:01	kayw	from the time i used 9front, acme was a very nice editor. Had a few quirks that I was unfamiliar with, but overall very nice.
2020-11-06 17:13:03	acdw	i don't like the scroll-button-middle-button
2020-11-06 17:13:12	insep	i tried, i kinda prefer scrolling by dragging the bar :D
2020-11-06 17:13:12	ddevault	so scroll with the left and right buttons
2020-11-06 17:13:15	acdw	uh emacs is bae tho
2020-11-06 17:13:29	ddevault	the scroll bar on plan 9 is a good example of being better by leaps and bounds
2020-11-06 17:13:42	ddevault	the vertical distance from the top determines how far you scroll up/down when you left/right click
2020-11-06 17:13:42	acdw	what I'd LOVE ---- oh wow, just thought htis - is 3 buttons + scroll wheel on side
2020-11-06 17:13:50	ddevault	if you right click at the 3rd line you will scroll down by 3 lines
2020-11-06 17:13:51	bie	systemd is great - it made me drop linux for openbsd!
2020-11-06 17:13:52	acdw	that's a good deseign
2020-11-06 17:13:58	acdw	lol bie
2020-11-06 17:14:05	insep	also terminal emulation in acme is kinda incomplete, which was a problem for me at the time
2020-11-06 17:14:14	acdw	oh fr?
2020-11-06 17:14:15	tane	ddevault, a mouse wheel makes all of this obsolete
2020-11-06 17:14:17	ddevault	well, plan 9 doesn't use ANSI at all, so
2020-11-06 17:14:24	ddevault	tane: mouse wheel also works
2020-11-06 17:14:38	ddevault	but the plan 9 scroll bar gives you more options, and the options make sense
2020-11-06 17:14:55	makeworld	I haven't heard much, but all the network file stuff intrigued me
2020-11-06 17:15:03	ddevault	the network file stuff is quite cool
2020-11-06 17:15:10	makeworld	Like they took "everything is a file" to include tcp connections and stuff? I think?
2020-11-06 17:15:24	ddevault	9p is also how plan 9 does containers so much better than linux (and freebsd (and solaris)) as to make their pathetic attempts laughable
2020-11-06 17:15:26	insep	i need to use acme again tbh, it was a while since i used it and i forgot what i liked and what i disliked about it lol
2020-11-06 17:15:51	ddevault	makeworld: aye, networking is done by reading and writing to files. Plan 9 does not have ioctls
2020-11-06 17:15:56	insep	how does plan9 do elf? хD
2020-11-06 17:15:57	makeworld	Huh
2020-11-06 17:16:14	ddevault	every plan 9 process has its own filesystem namespace, which the parent process can configure by selectively mounting or unmounting things
2020-11-06 17:16:24	ddevault	want to isolate a process from the network? just unmount the network device
2020-11-06 17:16:38	nytpu	that's what intrigued me when i first read about it
2020-11-06 17:16:41	nytpu	i really like that concept
2020-11-06 17:16:49	ddevault	and because all file I/O is performed over the network-transparent 9P protocol
2020-11-06 17:17:01	ddevault	the "network device" could actually be mounted from another machine, which is how you do a VPN
2020-11-06 17:17:19	ddevault	or, it could be an emulated network device implemented by a userspace file server which just groks the same reads/writes as the kernel
2020-11-06 17:17:50	makeworld	:0
2020-11-06 17:17:55	ddevault	this is also how all graphical programs work: the window manager shadows the display device files with its own implementation, and rather than forwarding it to the VGA controller it draws them in windows
2020-11-06 17:18:09	ddevault	any graphical program can be run directly on the VGA hardware without any modifications by just running it instead of the WM
2020-11-06 17:18:19	ddevault	or on a remote machine's VGA device by forwarding it over 9p ;)
2020-11-06 17:18:20	acdw	best part of plan 9 imo is the colorscheme
2020-11-06 17:18:21	@julienxx	The ability to union mount is really neat
2020-11-06 17:18:35	ddevault	for sure, linux's unionfs is another embarassment
2020-11-06 17:18:47	makeworld	Woah
2020-11-06 17:18:58	insep	for me the best part of plan9 is rio
2020-11-06 17:19:09	acdw	the rio ... colorscheme? :P
2020-11-06 17:19:14	ddevault	makeworld: familiar with the BSD socket API?
2020-11-06 17:19:28	kayw	it's hard to believe that M$ uses 9p2000.L for the WSL
2020-11-06 17:19:28	insep	acdw: rio is wm
2020-11-06 17:19:34	acdw	lol yea
2020-11-06 17:19:47	acdw	twas a joke :)
2020-11-06 17:19:47	makeworld	Not really drew
2020-11-06 17:19:57	ddevault	hm, what's your programming language of choice
2020-11-06 17:19:59	ddevault	the lowest level one
2020-11-06 17:20:16	makeworld	I've done some C, but mostly use Go and Python :P
2020-11-06 17:20:24	ddevault	whelp
2020-11-06 17:20:27	makeworld	Yeah lol
2020-11-06 17:20:28	ddevault	Go is heavily inspired by plan 9
2020-11-06 17:20:44	makeworld	Ah I feel like I've heard that. What connections do you see?
2020-11-06 17:20:44	ddevault	almost all of Go's most innovative features can trace their lineage directly back to plan 9
2020-11-06 17:20:55	ddevault	well, for one, Go literally started as a fork of the plan 9 C compilers
2020-11-06 17:21:01	ddevault	and it was written by the same people who wrote plan 9
2020-11-06 17:21:14	ddevault	goroutines and channels are also directly traceable back to plan 9's process model
2020-11-06 17:21:22	acdw	best thing about Go: the font
2020-11-06 17:21:23	ddevault	plan 9 also invented UTF-8
2020-11-06 17:21:33	ddevault	and /proc
2020-11-06 17:21:43	acdw	best thing about UTF-8: emoji
2020-11-06 17:22:07	ddevault	worst thing about UTF-8: no tengwar support, fucking WHEN Unicode consortium it's been 15 GODDAMN YEARS
2020-11-06 17:22:30	insep	lol
2020-11-06 17:22:38	kayw	lmao
2020-11-06 17:22:42	makeworld	acdw: It's getting worse and worse each time lol
2020-11-06 17:22:51	bie	i like go, but always end up doing personal projects in c (or sometimes lua)
2020-11-06 17:23:07	ddevault	Go is not a systems programming language
2020-11-06 17:23:07	nytpu	i always go back to c
2020-11-06 17:23:10	ddevault	it's an internet programming language
2020-11-06 17:23:18	kayw	i need to learn C
2020-11-06 17:23:20	nytpu	i don't write enough internet stuff to justify go as a primary language
2020-11-06 17:23:24	tane	bie, nytpu even programms heavy on utf8 processing?
2020-11-06 17:23:46	acdw	best thing about makeworld: the .gq TLD
2020-11-06 17:23:47	acdw	:P
2020-11-06 17:24:00	ddevault	what is gq?
2020-11-06 17:24:01	nytpu	ehhh, that's where i jump around, i meant that i don't use it enough to call it one of the main languages i use
2020-11-06 17:24:05	acdw	i dno't even know tbh
2020-11-06 17:24:19	ddevault	Equatorial Guinea
2020-11-06 17:24:27	acdw	oh neat!
2020-11-06 17:24:31	raiz	ddevault: plan 9 kernel exports and imports resources through 9p, 9p has latency issues, I haven't found a decent proposal to fix these issues with 9p, it seems it could not be used universally, for example, you could implement streaming in 9p through alternate channels where if I request a transaction through a 9p connection, I'd receive back a port to connect to through the same
2020-11-06 17:24:31	raiz	host to continue this transaction, this offloads the main server channel but also comes with the limitation that it can only be done through TCP, which is anti-plan 9 philosophy of having 9p connections go through any communication channel.  what I'd suggest doing instead, which can't be fixed in plan 9 currently, is having a kernel (in the plan 9 definition of kernel) that
2020-11-06 17:24:31	raiz	implements different resource protocols and maintain the distributed natureo of plan 9, so for example, I could use 9p for certain mounts in the file system, while also using SFTP for my homedir, and I could use a different protocol for display, this could be something like devdraw but without 9p, or a local protocol like OpenGL, and so on.  So instead of using 9p for everything,
2020-11-06 17:24:31	raiz	we'd have a protocol suite with each protocol tailored for its specific task.  I think redoxos tried to do something similar with universal links throughout the system but I'm not sure about how they're doing it exactly.
2020-11-06 17:24:36	ddevault	jesus fucking christ
2020-11-06 17:24:55	makeworld	The .gq domain was free ;)
2020-11-06 17:24:56	ddevault	I'm not reading all of that
2020-11-06 17:24:56	kayw	well, that's a lot of text
2020-11-06 17:25:00	ddevault	this is IRC, not an email thread
2020-11-06 17:25:04	ddevault	9p
2020-11-06 17:25:09	acdw	oh nice makeworld! Also it's not the best thing about you, that's your eyes ;)
2020-11-06 17:25:12	ddevault	9p's* design constraints are the bottleneck in plan 9
2020-11-06 17:25:13	makeworld	Aww
2020-11-06 17:25:14	ddevault	you are correct
2020-11-06 17:25:19	acdw	hehe
2020-11-06 17:25:33	makeworld	Also re: Go font: it looks pretty nice actually
2020-11-06 17:25:34	makeworld	https://blog.golang.org/go-fonts/go-font-code.png
2020-11-06 17:25:38	makeworld	Maybe I should use it
2020-11-06 17:25:41	acdw	ddevault did you read that whole thing that fast? wow
2020-11-06 17:25:42	nytpu	raiz: are you using a bridge or something? you seem to have walls of text like that a lot
2020-11-06 17:25:46	acdw	makeworld: Do! It's dope af
2020-11-06 17:25:48	kayw	I might switch to Go Mono
2020-11-06 17:25:49	ddevault	no, I said I was not going to read it
2020-11-06 17:25:52	makeworld	Serif though...
2020-11-06 17:25:54	ddevault	makeworld: guess where it comes from ;)
2020-11-06 17:25:59	raiz	of course plan 9 is great, but it's taught us lessons, we can start over again
2020-11-06 17:26:01	acdw	oh okay, lol
2020-11-06 17:26:06	acdw	I was gonna say .... that was quickkkk
2020-11-06 17:26:11	raiz	nytpu: no, I'm using weechat
2020-11-06 17:26:18	acdw	makeworld: I love a good serif monospace
2020-11-06 17:26:22	insep	tl;dr 9p is slow and attempting to make it faster might result in making it conflict with plan9 philosophy?
2020-11-06 17:26:24	makeworld	Wait nvm I'm confused, I use serif for code lol
2020-11-06 17:26:27	acdw	if it had cursive italics, it'd be *chef's kiss*
2020-11-06 17:26:36	acdw	lolol
2020-11-06 17:26:44	ddevault	fixing 9p is the main focus of the plan 9 community right now
2020-11-06 17:26:48	ddevault	give it, uh, 15-20 years
2020-11-06 17:26:52	boringcactus	having a philosophy < making things that work
2020-11-06 17:26:52	boringcactus	imho
2020-11-06 17:26:53	insep	makeworld: oh god this looks seхy
2020-11-06 17:26:54	ddevault	it's a small community and they argue a lot
2020-11-06 17:27:13	raiz	tbh, I didn't understand any of aiju's proposal about 9p
2020-11-06 17:27:21	raiz	had me banging my head on the wall
2020-11-06 17:27:21	tane	argue constructively or about "purity of thought"? that makes a huge difference imo
2020-11-06 17:27:44	raiz	this -> http://aiju.de/plan_9/9p2020
2020-11-06 17:29:00	raiz	wait... this is gemini channel
2020-11-06 17:29:10	nytpu	no, it's a plan9 channel
2020-11-06 17:29:17	nytpu	the gemini channel no longer exists
2020-11-06 17:29:22	raiz	is there.. uhmm.. technical channel of sorts in this network, like #meta?
2020-11-06 17:29:46	acdw	anyway, GEMIN
2020-11-06 17:29:47	acdw	i
2020-11-06 17:29:52	raiz	we could take discussion elsewhere
2020-11-06 17:29:52	boringcactus	idk, there's a parallel thread about taking old, mostly-abandoned computing designs and updating them juuuuust enough to be useful now
2020-11-06 17:29:56	acdw	 /join #meat
2020-11-06 17:30:11	raiz	lol
2020-11-06 17:30:35	nytpu	i mentioned this before but does anyone have a good embedded tls library? wolfssl is the only one i know of
2020-11-06 17:30:43	ddevault	bearssl might be worth looking at
2020-11-06 17:30:56	insep	mesalink /s
2020-11-06 17:31:04	ddevault	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_TLS_implementations#Overview
2020-11-06 17:31:06	acdw	trollssl
2020-11-06 17:31:08	acdw	dragonssl
2020-11-06 17:31:24	boringcactus	once gemini://crowbar-lang.org exists i'm gonna write CactusSSL in it
2020-11-06 17:31:28	boringcactus	because BoringSSL was taken
2020-11-06 17:31:37	acdw	nice boringcactus
2020-11-06 17:31:43	ericonr	nytpu: what are you using it for?
2020-11-06 17:31:53	nytpu	a gemini browser on an ATmega1284
2020-11-06 17:31:59	ericonr	oh, fancy
2020-11-06 17:32:04	nytpu	i just have to max out the external ram to be able to hold a full page
2020-11-06 17:32:11	ddevault	once [redacted] exists I'm going to write crypto/tls in it
2020-11-06 17:32:29	ericonr	nytpu: fwiw, the esp32 network stack uses bearssl, iirc
2020-11-06 17:32:41	acdw	oh your redactedlang?
2020-11-06 17:32:41	ericonr	either esp32 or esp8266, I don't remember anymore
2020-11-06 17:33:11	nytpu	should i go with esp? i just picked avr arbitrarily
2020-11-06 17:33:19	ericonr	how much RAM does that even have?
2020-11-06 17:33:39	nytpu	16kib onboard with 64kib external
2020-11-06 17:33:47	ericonr	oh, should be enough for keys then
2020-11-06 17:33:51	nytpu	and if you bank the external then you can get megabytes
2020-11-06 17:33:51	ericonr	I think
2020-11-06 17:34:15	ericonr	esp probably has way more networking examples bouncing around
2020-11-06 17:34:17	boringcactus	yeah drew's taking a far different approach with ████ than i am with Crowbar, but the high-level goals overlap
2020-11-06 17:34:20	ericonr	examples/resources
2020-11-06 17:34:51	ddevault	not sure why people call out TLS as a limiting factor for gemini on retro devices
2020-11-06 17:35:00	ddevault	like, you could totally implement TLS on almost anything
2020-11-06 17:35:06	ericonr	nytpu: either way, I'm having a bit of trouble with making bearssl a good fit for a gemini client
2020-11-06 17:35:09	ddevault	8 bit would be a challenge, but 32 bit wouldn't
2020-11-06 17:35:23	insep	ericonr: it might be esp32, all i found for esp8266 is https://tls.mbed.org/ from https://github.com/SuperHouse/esp-open-rtos
2020-11-06 17:35:30	nytpu	yeah, it'd be challenging, and i just came up with it so i have no idea if it's even feasable
2020-11-06 17:35:32	ddevault	I'm sure you can coax at least some simple TLS implementation into building with SDCC
2020-11-06 17:36:05	nytpu	but i might be able to coax it out of an arm7 chip i have if avr/esp doesn't work out
2020-11-06 17:37:07	ericonr	insep: https://github.com/esp8266/Arduino
2020-11-06 17:37:31	ericonr	nytpu: oh yeah arm is almost certainly enough
2020-11-06 17:37:42	ericonr	idk about final code size, tho
2020-11-06 17:37:53	★	insep shows clear disgust
2020-11-06 17:38:12	insep	ericonr: wait, haven't i seen you elsewhere yesterday?
2020-11-06 17:38:14	ericonr	insep: arduino hate much? :P
2020-11-06 17:38:23	ericonr	insep: #postmarketos
2020-11-06 17:38:24	ericonr	?
2020-11-06 17:38:27	insep	yup
2020-11-06 17:38:28	nytpu	well i wouldn't be using arduino
2020-11-06 17:38:33	insep	yup
2020-11-06 17:38:37	insep	yup for both
2020-11-06 17:38:40	@tomasino	i do so love arduinos
2020-11-06 17:38:43	@tomasino	uno++
2020-11-06 17:38:51	ddevault	I hate arduinos
2020-11-06 17:38:53	ddevault	because I hate the "IDE"
2020-11-06 17:39:00	@tomasino	arduini, maybe
2020-11-06 17:39:02	ddevault	it's so bad that I want nothing to do with the platform
2020-11-06 17:39:03	nytpu	even if i could do it with a 328p (which just doesn't have enough memory) i would never be able to fit the program in with the arduino bootloader
2020-11-06 17:39:08	nytpu	and i hate the arduino ide
2020-11-06 17:39:17	ddevault	ship a fucking toolchain you cunts
2020-11-06 17:39:24	@tomasino	heh
2020-11-06 17:39:45	@tomasino	my tinker enjoyment outweighs the tooling concerns
2020-11-06 17:39:48	insep	what i like about arduino is that a heck ton of libraries
2020-11-06 17:39:58	nytpu	i like using arduinos as dev boards, but i almost always wipe the bootloader and just use avdude
2020-11-06 17:40:00	insep	s/that/that there's/g
2020-11-06 17:40:09	nytpu	but having a power supplie and broken out pins is nice for prototyping
2020-11-06 17:40:13	makeworld	https://i.imgur.com/9YaQ2u2.png
2020-11-06 17:40:23	makeworld	Go Mono looks kinda weird in the terminal idk
2020-11-06 17:40:42	makeworld	It's nice though
2020-11-06 17:40:55	makeworld	insep acdw
2020-11-06 17:41:13	ericonr	the arduino form factor is freaking wonderful
2020-11-06 17:41:22	ddevault	I kind of dig it makeworld 
2020-11-06 17:41:36	ericonr	and you can use arduino-cli for the toolchain and stuff
2020-11-06 17:41:47	ericonr	even works on musl, if you dig out the ol' gcompat
2020-11-06 17:42:01	@tomasino	ddevault: i liked your article 
2020-11-06 17:42:15	@tomasino	speaking of tools
2020-11-06 17:42:17	insep	makeworld: no idea what's acdw, but wanna play a round of among-sus?
2020-11-06 17:42:21	insep	;)
2020-11-06 17:42:28	ddevault	tomasino: usability vs utility?
2020-11-06 17:42:36	@tomasino	yep
2020-11-06 17:42:38	ddevault	nice
2020-11-06 17:42:40	ddevault	thanks
2020-11-06 17:42:48	acdw	makeworld: I like the go mono in the terminal!
2020-11-06 17:43:16	acdw	insep: acdw <- it me -- i cannot play among-sus even though i'd like to b/c work
2020-11-06 17:43:19	acdw	have fun tho
2020-11-06 17:43:36	insep	oh
2020-11-06 17:43:42	acdw	oh i haven't read that one yet
2020-11-06 17:43:42	makeworld	Can't play rn sorry
2020-11-06 17:43:44	acdw	baw
2020-11-06 17:43:49	acdw	makeworld kinda sus
2020-11-06 17:44:01	makeworld	It's cool in the terminal, I'm just not used to the level of serif I guess
2020-11-06 17:44:02	@tomasino	sus+
2020-11-06 17:44:03	makeworld	Lol
2020-11-06 17:44:05	kayw	yep im kinda liking Go Mono too! It's a bit more stretched out than Iosevka, but overall not too bad
2020-11-06 17:44:09	insep	i thought it's some sort of new slang i haven't heard of yet
2020-11-06 17:44:09	insep	sorry
2020-11-06 17:44:15	insep	that's kinda sus
2020-11-06 17:45:02	insep	overall, open sans is my favorite font that i try to use anywhere but terminal
2020-11-06 17:45:28	acdw	SERIF
2020-11-06 17:45:31	acdw	serif++
2020-11-06 17:45:37	acdw	oh wait this is gemini
2020-11-06 17:45:54	acdw	open sans is aight
2020-11-06 17:45:55	@tomasino	what's lagrange using?
2020-11-06 17:46:08	acdw	gemini?? :P
2020-11-06 17:46:14	@tomasino	:P
2020-11-06 17:46:16	@tomasino	font wise, silly
2020-11-06 17:46:19	makeworld	SDL
2020-11-06 17:46:24	@tomasino	it's pretty nice
2020-11-06 17:46:36	insep	russian
2020-11-06 17:47:07	@tomasino	i'm back on firacode here in term at the moment. I'm not sure if i'll stay with it. I tend to prefer inconsolata or some others. But that's not gemini stuff
2020-11-06 17:47:54	makeworld	Huh it does really look nice for Go code
2020-11-06 17:48:19	acdw	fira code is nice
2020-11-06 17:48:20	ddevault	check out rsc's tour of acme
2020-11-06 17:48:22	ddevault	makeworld
2020-11-06 17:48:28	acdw	on my laptop I've got Comic Sans ans Comic Sans mono
2020-11-06 17:48:33	acdw	pretty great
2020-11-06 17:48:33	makeworld	Link?
2020-11-06 17:48:42	ddevault	https://duckduckgo.com
2020-11-06 17:49:06	insep	makeworld: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M
2020-11-06 17:49:08	acdw	oof
2020-11-06 17:49:16	makeworld	Lol thanks everyone
2020-11-06 17:49:22	acdw	you just got "let me google that for you"'d
2020-11-06 17:49:40	makeworld	Shameful
2020-11-06 17:50:00	@tomasino	:P
2020-11-06 17:50:26	@tomasino	did anyone ever build that lmgtfy gemini thing?
2020-11-06 17:50:37	@tomasino	(let me gus that for you)
2020-11-06 17:51:02	acdw	lol
2020-11-06 17:51:03	acdw	how'd that work
2020-11-06 17:51:09	@tomasino	with a redirect
2020-11-06 17:51:20	@tomasino	or a cgi that just has a single link?
2020-11-06 17:51:27	@tomasino	based on the url you pass it?
2020-11-06 17:51:29	@tomasino	ooooh
2020-11-06 17:51:30	@tomasino	better
2020-11-06 17:51:31	ddevault	or a gemtext lecture with aURL
2020-11-06 17:51:33	ddevault	a URL*
2020-11-06 17:51:33	acdw	so ... it'd be like "lmgtfy.com/thing" => gus.guru/search?thing
2020-11-06 17:51:35	acdw	?
2020-11-06 17:51:56	acdw	that is better
2020-11-06 17:52:00	@tomasino	or you go to lmgtfy.gempants.com and enter the url in a type 10, get back a short code
2020-11-06 17:52:07	@tomasino	then you get a lecture with a link when you follow it
2020-11-06 17:52:21	acdw	it's just not the same effect as lmgtfy
2020-11-06 17:52:37	@tomasino	embarrasing link telling you to gus is still pretty good
2020-11-06 17:52:41	boringcactus	i mean
2020-11-06 17:52:49	boringcactus	you could just link directly to the gus result page
2020-11-06 17:52:52	acdw	^
2020-11-06 17:53:01	@tomasino	but that doesn't ridicule you
2020-11-06 17:53:08		tane has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-06 17:53:09	boringcactus	it's a little bit less passive-aggressive and condescending, but. it's less passive-aggressive and condescending
2020-11-06 17:53:30	@tomasino	see?
2020-11-06 17:53:31	@tomasino	:D
2020-11-06 17:53:57	boringcactus	i mean, if you wanna automate passive-aggression at scale, be my guest, i guess
2020-11-06 17:54:31	acdw	lol
2020-11-06 17:54:40	acdw	passive-aggression as a service (R)
2020-11-06 17:54:49	@tomasino	brilliant
2020-11-06 18:33:24		nixo has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-06 18:33:36	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 18:45:29	▬▬▶	ComputerTech has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 18:46:16		nixo has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-06 18:47:39	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 19:01:16		felix has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-06 19:07:05		nixo has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-06 19:07:40	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 19:32:10	jan6	maan sir ddevaulŧ man worshipping plan 9 and dropping lines, what else did I miss, lol
2020-11-06 19:32:40	ddevault	nice try
2020-11-06 19:32:51	ddevault	I read this buffer
2020-11-06 19:36:05	weeb	hey ddevault are you a weeb by any chance
2020-11-06 19:36:46	ddevault	yes
2020-11-06 19:37:02	weeb	nice
2020-11-06 19:44:08		alex11 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-06 19:49:17	insep	hey weeb are you ddеvault by any chance
2020-11-06 19:49:34	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 19:52:13	ew0k	Capcom and spacewalk collect capsules that update frequently, like gemlogs. What capsules are there to see that aren’t on either of those?
2020-11-06 19:56:36	★	jan6 wants to make a better gemini that's not so hyper-fixated on the current philosophy, but is still tiny and line oriented
2020-11-06 19:56:40	jan6	but nowhere soon
2020-11-06 19:56:47	★	jan6 off
2020-11-06 19:57:41	acdw	ew0k: IDK
2020-11-06 19:57:58	acdw	uh... click randomly around gus.guru's known server list?
2020-11-06 19:59:54	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-06 20:00:01	kayw	is it a good idea to have a robots.txt?
2020-11-06 20:00:22	acdw	yes?
2020-11-06 20:00:25	acdw	everyone does
2020-11-06 20:00:32	acdw	I am ON IT with the ANSWERS today
2020-11-06 20:00:37	acdw	so knowledgeable
2020-11-06 20:01:45	kayw	oh, alright
2020-11-06 20:07:08	acdw	I would say so
2020-11-06 20:07:10	weeb	no insep
2020-11-06 20:07:12	weeb	i am weeb
2020-11-06 20:07:28	insep	sad
2020-11-06 20:09:28	acdw	what is a weeb anyway? is it full-on body-pillow, or just a fan?
2020-11-06 20:09:45	weeb	im a fan *refreshes u*
2020-11-06 20:10:03	acdw	oh okay
2020-11-06 20:10:07	acdw	i mean, i like anime
2020-11-06 20:10:15	acdw	shit who don't
2020-11-06 20:10:58	helby	I don't
2020-11-06 20:11:00	weeb	watashi wa fan desu *kawaii-ly refreshes u*
2020-11-06 20:11:06	@ben	i don't
2020-11-06 20:11:26	@ben	closest i'll get is avatar the last airbender
2020-11-06 20:14:44	acdw	oh fair enough helby
2020-11-06 20:14:49	acdw	ben: avatar is anime
2020-11-06 20:14:57	acdw	you like "Friends?" Friends is anime
2020-11-06 20:15:06	acdw	Seinfeld? anime
2020-11-06 20:15:11	@ben	the last time i said it was anime someone yelled at me
2020-11-06 20:15:14	@ben	lol
2020-11-06 20:15:15	acdw	Simpsons? Surprisingly, not anime
2020-11-06 20:15:17	acdw	lol
2020-11-06 20:15:26	@ben	ime anime fans are very obnoxious
2020-11-06 20:15:26	acdw	i think it's a distinction that really doesn't matter all that much
2020-11-06 20:15:28	@ben	lol
2020-11-06 20:15:36	acdw	ime? is that a typo or a genre?
2020-11-06 20:15:37	@ben	it does to some people
2020-11-06 20:15:42	acdw	indeed it do
2020-11-06 20:15:43	@ben	ime = in my experience
2020-11-06 20:15:45	acdw	OH lol
2020-11-06 20:24:01	insep	our life is one big anime and 2020 seasons were made by a-1 pictures
2020-11-06 20:24:37	helby	remember when I first tried pleroma for fuck's sake
2020-11-06 20:24:45	helby	before that I even did not know anime cult exist
2020-11-06 20:25:06	helby	then just saw anime and cats everywhere ... then I left pleroma ;)
2020-11-06 20:25:27	acdw	lol
2020-11-06 20:31:26	helby	maybe soon there will be 'anime' protocol
2020-11-06 20:31:45	helby	with 'cat' client
2020-11-06 20:33:37	acdw	oh hell yea
2020-11-06 20:33:44	acdw	dream it, achieve it helby
2020-11-06 20:33:45	epoch	probably should named it "neko"
2020-11-06 20:34:08	epoch	another program named cat is likely to cause problems :P
2020-11-06 20:34:39	acdw	catgirl
2020-11-06 20:34:41	acdw	oh wait
2020-11-06 20:34:46	acdw	oh the client should be uwu
2020-11-06 20:34:50	acdw	NO---the verbs should be uwu
2020-11-06 20:34:55	acdw	uwu == get
2020-11-06 20:58:51	khuxkm	which feed format should I use for my gemlog? atom? rss?
2020-11-06 20:58:59	khuxkm	kinda tempted to do both
2020-11-06 20:59:31	@tomasino	do eeet
2020-11-06 21:00:00	acdw	both!
2020-11-06 21:00:06	acdw	they're not that different from each other
2020-11-06 21:03:42	ddevault	solderpunk was munching on a better idea
2020-11-06 21:04:11	ddevault	basically just gemtext where the link text starts with an ISO 8601 date and a colon and the title of the link
2020-11-06 21:04:23	ddevault	was briefly discussed on mastodon
2020-11-06 21:08:40	acdw	was that solderpunk? I thought someone else mentioned that ---- but yeah, not a bad idea
2020-11-06 21:08:43	acdw	honestly, all 3
2020-11-06 21:09:02	acdw	tho i'd just do whitespace, since => and the link is whitespace
2020-11-06 21:09:12	acdw	=> DATE title
2020-11-06 21:12:26	ddevault	yeah that seems fine
2020-11-06 21:13:49	acdw	that'd be really easy to implement; i'm thinking when i get around to it i'll just ahve all 3
2020-11-06 21:13:59	acdw	ddevault can i ask you a gmnisrv q? ok if no
2020-11-06 21:14:35	ddevault	sure
2020-11-06 21:14:38	acdw	so cgi -- it could be called like, "blog" ? then I could have example.com/blog/whatever.gmi and it could serve /blog.d/whatever.gmi?
2020-11-06 21:14:40	acdw	right?
2020-11-06 21:14:40	ddevault	won't promise an answer
2020-11-06 21:14:43	acdw	haha
2020-11-06 21:15:01	ddevault	yeah, something like that
2020-11-06 21:15:02	acdw	i think so. i could also just check it out 
2020-11-06 21:15:04	acdw	awesome sauce
2020-11-06 21:15:05	ddevault	the script name should be blog
2020-11-06 21:15:09	acdw	right!
2020-11-06 21:15:13	ddevault	and the root dir should have cgi enabled
2020-11-06 21:15:15	acdw	and executable
2020-11-06 21:15:16	ddevault	or = routed
2020-11-06 21:15:23	acdw	oh yes, awesome sauce
2020-11-06 21:15:39	ddevault	actually = routing doesn't work
2020-11-06 21:15:41	acdw	okay cool. i had some confusino when playing with it the other day, but i think i've got it figured out now
2020-11-06 21:15:42	ddevault	but : would work too
2020-11-06 21:16:13	acdw	funny thing is, i think i'm going to fully CGI my gemini server while my HTTP server is mostly static
2020-11-06 21:16:19	acdw	why not, right? 
2020-11-06 21:16:24	acdw	cool, well thanks :)
2020-11-06 21:16:32	ddevault	np
2020-11-06 21:16:34	ddevault	my site is mostly static
2020-11-06 21:17:26	acdw	oh yes :) static is good -- since gemini is simpler i'm going to use it to learn more cgi type stuff
2020-11-06 21:18:09	ddevault	sure
2020-11-06 21:21:41	acdw	'course, it might only be til i've finished with my awk server ;)
2020-11-06 21:22:20	ddevault	awk is weak
2020-11-06 21:22:22	ddevault	do one in brainfuck
2020-11-06 21:22:25	acdw	haha
2020-11-06 21:22:35	acdw	I'll be doing well enough to do one in awk, tbh
2020-11-06 21:22:37	raiz	GET ENLIGHTENED!!!
2020-11-06 21:22:57	acdw	of course, it's going to have an sh layer to handle the tls bits -- by which i mean a socat layer
2020-11-06 21:22:58	ddevault	that is, unless you're chicken
2020-11-06 21:23:02	acdw	b-cawk
2020-11-06 21:23:02	★	ddevault flaps arms and makes chicken noises
2020-11-06 21:23:08	acdw	bock-begawk
2020-11-06 21:23:08	acdw	yes
2020-11-06 21:23:18	acdw	call me Henrietta, b/c I am Chicken
2020-11-06 21:23:30	acdw	co-co-co-co-co-co-COOOO
2020-11-06 21:23:38	acdw	Name That TV Show
2020-11-06 21:27:23	ℹ 	__restrict is now known as kiedtl
2020-11-06 21:43:09	jcowan	Henrietta!  That's a cache!
2020-11-06 21:44:20	jcowan	login: The best way to learn to pronounce "Gemini" is to look it up in a dictionary for your language.  In English it is usually pronounced JEM-in-igh
2020-11-06 21:46:03	acdw	THO ... acording to wikipedia, the astronaughts (what is this spelling? Im' leaving it) on the gemini project pronounced it "jemminy"
2020-11-06 21:46:10	acdw	so... if that's what it's based on, ,,,
2020-11-06 21:51:31	login	based on the horoscope sign right? gemini
2020-11-06 21:51:37	login	i.e., twins
2020-11-06 21:52:04	jcowan	yes
2020-11-06 21:52:22	jcowan	Because the physical Gemini capsules held two astronauts, as opposed to Mercury with just one.
2020-11-06 21:52:34	jcowan	"You don't fly a Mercury, you *wear* it."
2020-11-06 21:53:14	helby	that info is crucial 
2020-11-06 21:57:12		wangofett has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-06 21:57:37	acdw	Gemini based on NASA< NASA based on Twins
2020-11-06 21:57:44	acdw	lol jcowan
2020-11-06 21:58:27	jcowan	So officially HTML+HTTP is Apollo, but I think it's more like the ISS.
2020-11-06 22:00:38	acdw	yes
2020-11-06 22:00:48	acdw	what's the space shuttle? bittorrent?
2020-11-06 22:02:05	raiz	UFOs
2020-11-06 22:02:22	acdw	yes
2020-11-06 22:02:26	raiz	oh wait no
2020-11-06 22:02:28	raiz	that's SSH
2020-11-06 22:02:32	raiz	cause cryptic...
2020-11-06 22:03:01	raiz	ballistic missiles for torrent
2020-11-06 22:03:20	ddevault	bittorrent is more like nanobots
2020-11-06 22:03:30	login	what is Mercury?
2020-11-06 22:03:51	ddevault	or a ramscoop if you insist on spacecraft
2020-11-06 22:04:13	acdw	solderpunk came up with a mercury protocol and everyone was like, no whyyyyy
2020-11-06 22:04:32	acdw	also apparently mercury is : https://medium.com/mercuryprotocol
2020-11-06 22:04:35	login	ah, so what is a physical Gemini capsule?
2020-11-06 22:04:59	acdw	https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/the-mercury-protocol.gmi
2020-11-06 22:05:07	acdw	(or gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/the-mercury-protocol.gmi if yr nasty)
2020-11-06 22:05:18	ddevault	who the fuck links to a portal in the gemini IRC channel
2020-11-06 22:05:41	acdw	apparently: https://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NASM-A19670209000-NASM2016-02694&max=900
2020-11-06 22:05:52	★	acdw raises hand
2020-11-06 22:06:10	acdw	i guess I should've flipped the "if yr nasty" bit tho
2020-11-06 22:06:14	acdw	next time ;)
2020-11-06 22:07:30	nytpu	login: physical gemini capsule: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Gemini_7_in_orbit_-_GPN-2006-000035.jpg
2020-11-06 22:08:59	login	ah
2020-11-06 22:10:39	nytpu	speaking of which i've been meaning to mirror virtual agc's gemini archive on gemini
2020-11-06 22:10:41	nytpu	https://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Gemini.html
2020-11-06 22:10:48	nytpu	and i'd also mirror the apollo stuff
2020-11-06 22:11:16	nytpu	https://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/links.html#Gemini_spacecraft_computer
2020-11-06 22:11:19	acdw	hell yes nytpu
2020-11-06 22:11:22	acdw	that sounds aweosme
2020-11-06 22:12:00	acdw	now i'm thinking i should try redesigning my cottage ascii art to look more like a gemini capsule repurposed to be lived in
2020-11-06 22:12:04	acdw	that might be a toughy
2020-11-06 22:19:07	kayw	If i say the content on my gemini site is cc-by-sa, can I just say it on the index, or does it have to be said on all pages?
2020-11-06 22:20:16	acdw	hm that's a lawyer question
2020-11-06 22:20:28	acdw	it might depend on your jurisdiction
2020-11-06 22:27:54	nytpu	on mine i just have it on my about page and index
2020-11-06 22:28:39	nytpu	the thing is, if they can't determine the license it's implied to be no rights granted, so it's not like you'd suddenly be releasing all your content into the public domain or something
2020-11-06 22:29:03	nytpu	in the u.s. and western europe at least
2020-11-06 22:29:40	acdw	^
2020-11-06 22:29:45	acdw	I have mine as a footer on all pages
2020-11-06 22:32:08	nytpu	i really should put it on all pages, i already have a footer anyways
2020-11-06 22:38:54	nytpu	i was looking up some ascii art for inspiration on a gemini capsule and i always forget how good ascii art can be sometimes
2020-11-06 22:38:56	nytpu	https://ttm.sh/dtd.txt
2020-11-06 22:40:53		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-06 22:42:26	acdw	oh that's dope
2020-11-06 22:42:28	acdw	i love ascii art
2020-11-06 22:51:58		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-06 23:02:50	ddevault	I have it on the footer but it's fine if you just put it on the index
2020-11-06 23:13:59	helby	yes, bc. everybody who visit your site really care what you type in a footer or what license u attribute to that nonsense
2020-11-06 23:17:03	acdw	dam ok
2020-11-06 23:17:23	makeworld	Damn that is nice
2020-11-06 23:17:33	makeworld	The ascii art I mean lol
2020-11-06 23:17:39	acdw	lol
2020-11-06 23:17:47	makeworld	Although I feel like Unicode art remains a mostly untapped market
2020-11-06 23:17:52	acdw	lol true
2020-11-06 23:18:25	helby	some art is really nice
2020-11-06 23:18:37	helby	don't forget to check license ;)
2020-11-06 23:19:41	ddevault	chill helby
2020-11-06 23:20:29	helby	trying ;)
2020-11-06 23:21:36	helby	just disturbed little bit always when heard about licensing, copyright and other crap
2020-11-06 23:23:02	ddevault	why
2020-11-06 23:26:10	nytpu	my "ascii art" tends to get code page 437-y becuase i love the box-drawing chars
2020-11-06 23:27:17	nytpu	helby: and i don't like copyright either, but that means it's ultra important for me to license everything properly so it can be used freely *without* shitty copyright restrictions
2020-11-06 23:27:28	acdw	^
2020-11-06 23:27:33	acdw	box-drawing++
2020-11-06 23:27:44	acdw	what license do you use nytpu?
2020-11-06 23:27:46	helby	bc. it's nonsense that somebody share some thoughts, then try to force somebody else how he can/can't use it
2020-11-06 23:28:09	nytpu	cc by-sa
2020-11-06 23:28:41	acdw	that's a good one
2020-11-06 23:28:52	acdw	i like WTFPL for the memes but it's not good so i hear
2020-11-06 23:28:56	nytpu	i used to be really unlicense/wtfpl but i started drifting towards copyleft becuase i don't like the idea of people taking my freely given stuff and making nonfree derivatives
2020-11-06 23:29:03	makeworld	^
2020-11-06 23:29:06	acdw	helby: I mean, yeah, but the law doesn't work that way
2020-11-06 23:29:09	acdw	and it's bigger than us
2020-11-06 23:29:13	acdw	also, fair point nytpu
2020-11-06 23:29:38	makeworld	helby: Ideally yes, but I'd rather make things free for everyone but companies rather than have companies potentially steal it and then no one can use it
2020-11-06 23:30:12	acdw	^
2020-11-06 23:30:23	helby	oh u think these companies want something from u or give a shit about your licence? ;)
2020-11-06 23:30:26	acdw	I've recently heard that the non-commercial clause is pretty bunk
2020-11-06 23:31:19	acdw	helby: first, if it's totally unlicensed (as in, no license at all), in a lot of jurisdictions it's assumed that All Rights are Reserved.  If you want people to use your stuff in their projects, you have to license it
2020-11-06 23:31:45	acdw	second, whether companies care or not, a proper license gives you, the author, legal recourse in case they don't care
2020-11-06 23:31:58	acdw	like, it's not a lot, but it's literally the onlything us little people have
2020-11-06 23:32:00	ddevault	the reason I brought up licensing on the mailing list is not because for the purpose of corporate exploitation
2020-11-06 23:32:14	ddevault	I was hypothesizing a client which used latex to render gemini sites as a newspaper
2020-11-06 23:32:23	ddevault	and realized that copyright might be an issue in the distribution of that
2020-11-06 23:32:29	@tomasino	it would indeed
2020-11-06 23:32:33	ddevault	s/because//
2020-11-06 23:33:17	acdw	why so? is latex gpl or something?
2020-11-06 23:33:25	acdw	oh no, it's redistributing
2020-11-06 23:33:26	acdw	i got ther
2020-11-06 23:34:10	ddevault	since that discussion arose, a number of gemini sites have adopted a license which would permit this
2020-11-06 23:34:28	ddevault	and if someone went through with some kind of "gemini weekly" publication, it would provide a nice social pressure to get more sites to do so
2020-11-06 23:34:46	ddevault	the "client is entirely responsible for presentation" approach of gemini lends itself to some interesting novel use-cases like that
2020-11-06 23:35:28	helby	gemini newspaper can be cool :)
2020-11-06 23:36:12	nytpu	i use this thing called goosepaper to deliver a "newspaper" to my kindle (yes, i know, i know)
2020-11-06 23:36:14	nytpu	https://github.com/j6k4m8/goosepaper
2020-11-06 23:36:22	nytpu	and now i'm thinking i should adapt it to gemini
2020-11-06 23:36:23	boringcactus	nytpu if you want the spirit of the JSON License with the tone of the WTFPL there's always https://sr.ht/~boringcactus/fafol/
2020-11-06 23:37:34	boringcactus	it. may or may not be a thing worth wanting, but it does exist
2020-11-06 23:37:51	makeworld	ddevault: Nice idea
2020-11-06 23:38:52	ddevault	in fact, I'm looking for a weekend project
2020-11-06 23:38:56	ddevault	maybe I'll put this together
2020-11-06 23:39:06	zephryn	sounds like a pretty interesting idea
2020-11-06 23:39:24	ddevault	is the capcom list of feeds publically available?
2020-11-06 23:40:07	★	ddevault emails solderpunk
2020-11-06 23:41:57	nytpu	i'd just use gus' list of known feets
2020-11-06 23:42:01	nytpu	s/feets/feeds/
2020-11-06 23:42:10	nytpu	i'm pretty sure capcom has almost all of those
2020-11-06 23:44:59	makeworld	It's not ddevault, but easily could be. But yeah I'd just check GUS
2020-11-06 23:45:26	makeworld	GUS will also pick up RSS feeds iirc, while CAPCOM only does Atom
2020-11-06 23:45:54	makeworld	You could also check out Spacewalk, for the people who are too poor to have feeds
2020-11-06 23:46:22	ddevault	it wouldn't be totally hands off anyway, such a publication would benefit from editorialization
2020-11-06 23:47:22	acdw	ddevault: that is a dope af idea
2020-11-06 23:47:27	makeworld	Yeah definitely
2020-11-06 23:47:37	acdw	i might be interested in trying to do something like that
2020-11-06 23:47:53	acdw	boringcactus: loving that license name
2020-11-06 23:48:08	makeworld	Maybe do gemini to md with some script, and then md to latex with pandoc?
2020-11-06 23:48:12	ddevault	lol no
2020-11-06 23:48:15	ddevault	I'd just do gemtext to latex
2020-11-06 23:48:21	acdw	that is one thing --- hwo to do links?
2020-11-06 23:48:24	makeworld	Yeah I figured there would be a better way
2020-11-06 23:48:31	makeworld	With a pandoc filter maybe?
2020-11-06 23:48:37	makeworld	Or just a script and no pandoc lol
2020-11-06 23:48:39	ddevault	I have zero desire to involve pandoc
2020-11-06 23:48:43	makeworld	Haha okay gotcha
2020-11-06 23:48:46	ddevault	why would it be "better" to add more steps and layers of indirection
2020-11-06 23:48:56	ddevault	anyway, I'll see if I can't make up some nice latex for a template
2020-11-06 23:49:02	makeworld	What if we convert to pdf first and then scan it and then OCR
2020-11-06 23:49:05	boringcactus	i don't know if you can make ad hoc readers in pandoc like you can writers
2020-11-06 23:49:21	makeworld	And use AI OCR for better conversion on bad scanners
2020-11-06 23:49:28	acdw	okay, so gemtext -> html -> pandoc -> markdown -> john gruber's markdown.pl -> html -> that one program that turns html into pdf
2020-11-06 23:49:37	makeworld	Perfect
2020-11-06 23:49:45	acdw	:D
2020-11-06 23:49:50	makeworld	As long "that one program" is the holy pandoc, once again
2020-11-06 23:49:51	boringcactus	-> svg -> html -> different html to pdf program
2020-11-06 23:49:56	makeworld	Oh no
2020-11-06 23:50:03	ddevault	don't forget to print out the PDF and scan it back in a few times
2020-11-06 23:50:10	ddevault	ideally putting it in a spiral notebook, then tearing the pages out first
2020-11-06 23:50:24	makeworld	The digital equivalent of barrel aging
2020-11-06 23:50:36	boringcactus	art installation that's just a printer feeding into a scanner feeding into a printer feeding into a scanner
2020-11-06 23:50:54	makeworld	Actually sounds intersting 
2020-11-06 23:51:08	makeworld	Maybe for a conf, so you could see it degrade over a couple days
2020-11-06 23:51:38	acdw	no makeworld, htat'd be silly. you can't ahve 2 invocations in the same pipeline
2020-11-06 23:51:52	makeworld	Ah, my bad :P
2020-11-06 23:51:54	acdw	omg @ "The digital equivalent of barrel aging"
2020-11-06 23:52:10	acdw	it's called .like, wkhtml or soemthing?
2020-11-06 23:52:15	boringcactus	wkhtmltopdf, yeah
2020-11-06 23:52:20	acdw	that's it! 
2020-11-06 23:52:21	boringcactus	there's also weasyprint
2020-11-06 23:52:28	acdw	it like, prints out the page into a pdf, preserving styling
2020-11-06 23:52:29	acdw	sortof
2020-11-06 23:52:34	boringcactus	i am, unfortunately, very familiar with those
2020-11-06 23:52:41	acdw	last time i used it (8, 10 eyars ago?) it was really really bad
2020-11-06 23:52:44	acdw	sounds like it still is
2020-11-06 23:52:58	boringcactus	for a while the Crowbar spec was a pile of markdown being translated into PDF and gemtext one file at a time by Pandoc
2020-11-06 23:53:06	ddevault	dunno why people are afraid of latex
2020-11-06 23:53:09	ddevault	it's obviously the tool for this job
2020-11-06 23:53:20	boringcactus	now it is a pile of reStructuredText being translated into HTML and PDF and gemtext by Sphinx
2020-11-06 23:53:23	makeworld	It's just very verbose
2020-11-06 23:53:37	boringcactus	show me a good latex->html exporter and i'll. thank you
2020-11-06 23:53:37	ddevault	it's really not
2020-11-06 23:53:43	@ben	pandoc
2020-11-06 23:53:49	ddevault	why is html involved here
2020-11-06 23:53:49	makeworld	boringcactus: Is pandoc not good? ;)
2020-11-06 23:53:56	boringcactus	i want an html version of my specc
2020-11-06 23:54:01	ddevault	pandoc is hot garbage, like I want to install 3G of broken haskell
2020-11-06 23:54:04	boringcactus	because that's way more amenable to browsing
2020-11-06 23:54:12	makeworld	Just install the statically linked version
2020-11-06 23:54:30	makeworld	It's just a lot of distros that screw it up by making all its deps a pkg or something stupid
2020-11-06 23:54:32	ddevault	boringcactus: htlatex
2020-11-06 23:54:41	makeworld	Pandoc can be a single small binary if you want
2020-11-06 23:54:45	boringcactus	i think i had trouble getting that working
2020-11-06 23:54:55	ddevault	as if I want to install any amount of broken haskell*
2020-11-06 23:55:01	nytpu	i remember when arch decided that dynamically linking haskell was the most fucking genius idea in the world and tried to get me to install 2gb of haskell crap that i don't use
2020-11-06 23:55:03	boringcactus	idk, i'm already doing the thing i'm doing, and it doesn't suck and cross-references work
2020-11-06 23:55:11	ddevault	in any case, who cares about the spec being html
2020-11-06 23:55:19	ddevault	PDFs are totally fine for that purpose
2020-11-06 23:55:26	boringcactus	i do
2020-11-06 23:55:34	acdw	latex++
2020-11-06 23:55:43	nytpu	yeah latex is superior
2020-11-06 23:56:12	ddevault	you do, but not for any articulatble reasons, it seems
2020-11-06 23:56:21	ddevault	just because html has wormed a hole into your brain
2020-11-06 23:56:23	acdw	i'm gonna have to disagree re pandoc, it's dope, it does so much, but for this job ----- gmi-> latex is easiest for sure
2020-11-06 23:56:38	nytpu	statically linked pandoc is fine
2020-11-06 23:56:51		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-06 23:56:52	boringcactus	oh the holes in my brain were there way before html got to me
2020-11-06 23:57:29	makeworld	I haven't used pandoc extensively, but I consider it pretty handy software
2020-11-06 23:57:38	makeworld	But anyway it's irrelevant here yeah
2020-11-06 23:57:53	makeworld	Looking forward to the project drew!
2020-11-06 23:58:08	ℹ 	cyberia is now known as spideria
2020-11-06 23:58:09	boringcactus	sometimes you need the ffmpeg of documents, sometimes you don't
2020-11-06 23:58:28	boringcactus	and just like with ffmpeg, doing anything nontrivial with it is painful
2020-11-06 23:58:37	boringcactus	and requires lots of documentation round trips
2020-11-06 23:58:37	ericonr	I'm just afraid pandoc will break on me
2020-11-06 23:58:53	ericonr	someday stack won't compile stuff anymore, and then pandoc won't ever work again
2020-11-06 23:58:55	makeworld	Haha ffmpeg really is like that
2020-11-06 23:59:00	makeworld	Constantly looking up commands
2020-11-07 00:01:33	boringcactus	you can* do anything**
2020-11-07 00:01:45	boringcactus	*it'll be difficult
2020-11-07 00:01:55	boringcactus	**some stuff will still require a more powerful tool
2020-11-07 00:02:42	boringcactus	like. trying to get cross-references working smoothly with just markdown and pandoc? i'm good thanks
2020-11-07 00:05:43	nytpu	i remember pandoc struggling to do something so "nontrivial" as using a font size that isn't 10, 11, or 12
2020-11-07 00:06:23	boringcactus	and ddevault one of the things i (probably) can't do with a pdf is link from somewhere else directly to a specific language element
2020-11-07 00:06:45	boringcactus	like https://crowbar-lang.org/language/type-definition.html#element-OpaqueStructDefinition
2020-11-07 00:07:18	ddevault	number your sections
2020-11-07 00:07:32	boringcactus	i'm doing that, for some value of "sections"
2020-11-07 00:07:50	boringcactus	but <link to pdf> "as you'll see in section 3.6.2" is
2020-11-07 00:07:55	boringcactus	slower than that
2020-11-07 00:08:12	boringcactus	a link and you're there vs a link and some scrolling and you're there
2020-11-07 00:09:51	boringcactus	but yeah, more on-topic-fully, the bad hacked-together Lua it took to get pandoc to spit out gemtext is probably about as bad as the bad hacked-together Python it took to get sphinx to spit out gemtext,
2020-11-07 00:09:56	boringcactus	but. i actually know Python
2020-11-07 00:11:01	boringcactus	both of them are built around hierarchical documents, though, and gemini is purposefully not hierarchical, so it'll always be some form of not-how-that's-supposed-to-work
2020-11-07 00:12:36	helby	this discussion forcing me to check gopher again ;)
2020-11-07 00:15:13	makeworld	boringcactus: You can do Python filters with pandoc using panflute
2020-11-07 00:15:20	makeworld	https://github.com/sergiocorreia/panflute
2020-11-07 00:15:40	boringcactus	yeah, if i had tried hard and believed in myself i could've put together more infrastructure on top of pandoc
2020-11-07 00:15:54	boringcactus	but there's only so much you can do before it makes sense to just use a tool that's actually better for the job
2020-11-07 00:16:17	boringcactus	like. Sphinx is built to handle highly cross-referential documentation
2020-11-07 00:41:31	★	Seirdy uses md2gemini as a start, but then re-formats and edits the content a bit to flow better
2020-11-07 00:41:52	Seirdy	some areas need to be re-worded because of the lack of linline links
2020-11-07 00:42:13	Seirdy	s/li//
2020-11-07 00:46:20	makeworld	Would be happy to improve md2gemini if there's a specific thing to improve :)
2020-11-07 00:46:40	makeworld	Or at least file an issue and get to it at some point ha
2020-11-07 00:51:12		swinslow_ has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-07 01:08:40	ddevault	gemini://drewdevault.com/weekly.pdf
2020-11-07 01:08:46	ddevault	initial pass at formatting my latest gemini article for print
2020-11-07 01:08:59	kayw	not found :/
2020-11-07 01:09:41	ddevault	trya gain
2020-11-07 01:09:43	ddevault	try again*
2020-11-07 01:09:47	kayw	there we go
2020-11-07 01:12:21	ddevault	somewhat improved version pushed
2020-11-07 01:13:52	kayw	wow that looks hella nice
2020-11-07 01:15:16	ddevault	this is the "article" template, will try my hand at something more lettors-to-the-editor-esque for gemlogs tomorrow
2020-11-07 01:24:27		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-07 01:27:40	raiz	just a quick question... since gemini requests should have absolute url, do you guys implement relative path translation on the client side, have a non-standard extension on the server side?
2020-11-07 01:29:06	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 01:29:30	boringcactus	afaik that's usually the client's job
2020-11-07 01:29:54	raiz	another question came to mind...
2020-11-07 01:30:56	ericonr	raiz: before I implemented path resolution in my client I got a lot of servers telling me off for invalid urls
2020-11-07 01:31:08	raiz	if you have a server that handles multiple domains, do you do it the HTTP way of reading the connection address or do you read the gemini request and know what domain to route to
2020-11-07 01:31:26	raiz	what would be the proper way to do it here?
2020-11-07 01:34:02	boringcactus	the connection address doesn't tell you anything
2020-11-07 01:34:23	boringcactus	if your server handles multiple domains, they're probably all connecting to the same address
2020-11-07 01:34:29	raiz	indeed
2020-11-07 01:34:30	boringcactus	and if not, that's. an unorthodox setup
2020-11-07 01:34:41	boringcactus	so you can lift the host from the url
2020-11-07 01:35:13	raiz	there's way to tell what domain the accepted connection used from the server side
2020-11-07 01:35:25	raiz	I don't know what the proper terminology here is
2020-11-07 01:35:55	★	raiz reads accept(2) manpage
2020-11-07 01:36:58	ddevault	domain or IP?
2020-11-07 01:37:09	ddevault	domain would require a reverse DNS lookup
2020-11-07 01:37:21	raiz	oh yeah, its in the sockaddr struct
2020-11-07 01:37:44	raiz	no?
2020-11-07 01:37:56	ddevault	yes
2020-11-07 01:39:12	raiz	I'll figure it out when I start working on that part :-)
2020-11-07 01:39:36		nixo has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-07 01:42:41	raiz	oh wait... forgot my initial question... so how do you suggest I do it, on socket layer or protocol layer?
2020-11-07 01:43:29	ddevault	I require SNI
2020-11-07 01:43:34	ddevault	and disconnect clients which don't offer it
2020-11-07 01:44:00	raiz	based
2020-11-07 02:26:45	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 02:27:14	makeworld	ddevault: Looks not bad! I think having the arrow indented (for the xkcd link) would be good
2020-11-07 02:27:25	makeworld	So it's not in the column margin
2020-11-07 02:44:31		helby has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-07 02:52:34	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 02:57:08		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-07 03:33:33		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-07 03:38:50	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 04:00:00		avane has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-11-07 04:01:31	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 04:26:25	jcowan	What would be a good heuristic for figuring out if a file is text/gemini?  I've asked on the ML too.
2020-11-07 04:27:38	bie	jcowan: i was thinking about that the other day but couldn't really come up with anything... checking for a /^=> etc/ was the closest i got :x
2020-11-07 04:28:39	raiz	how do they do it for markdown?
2020-11-07 04:28:45	★	jcowan checks
2020-11-07 04:28:49	raiz	if they don't then we don't, lol
2020-11-07 04:28:59	raiz	fwiw gemtext is just plaintext
2020-11-07 04:29:12	raiz	can be problematic for servers auto generating mime headers
2020-11-07 04:29:23	jcowan	No support for markdown
2020-11-07 04:29:23	raiz	but that would be worked around if necessary
2020-11-07 04:30:09	jcowan	It can only be probabilistic, because every plain text file is valid text/gemini.
2020-11-07 04:30:51	raiz	but not every plain text file is reasonable gemtext
2020-11-07 04:31:01	raiz	it can be misinterpreted
2020-11-07 04:31:23	raiz	you could use file extensions
2020-11-07 04:31:27	bie	for my server i ended up using the extension to decide whether to serve text/plain or text/gemini
2020-11-07 04:31:29	raiz	that's as far as it goes
2020-11-07 04:31:35	bie	for everything else i use the mime type
2020-11-07 04:31:43	bie	uh i mean...
2020-11-07 04:31:49	bie	1. libmagic checks the file
2020-11-07 04:32:08	bie	2. if it's text/plain check the extension, otherwise just use the mime type from libmagic
2020-11-07 04:32:27	raiz	yeah, that's decent
2020-11-07 04:39:36		helby has left #gemini
2020-11-07 04:39:57	bie	i was going to figure out the ipv4 problems with my gemini server today, but the nice weather is calling to me *goes outside*
2020-11-07 04:40:33	jcowan	Alternatively, check the extension first, and use libmagic if you don't recognize it or there is none.  In other words, cheapest first.
2020-11-07 04:43:00	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 04:58:07	khuxkm	honestly, I don't see what's so bad about just using the extension if it's there
2020-11-07 04:58:26	khuxkm	the only place I see that being an issue is .cgi, and CGI scripts can specify their own mimetype
2020-11-07 05:10:10	jcowan	Nothing.  But not all extensions will be in the server's table, and not all files will have extensions.
2020-11-07 05:33:38	raiz	I've noticed sending a request of "gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space" to gemini.circumlunar.space returns "31 gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/", notice I didn't include the leading '/', is that behavior considered common? can I handle no leading slash as if it's there all along in my implementation?
2020-11-07 05:34:08	raiz	so instead of a redirect, a request without leading slash is treated as if it had a leading slash
2020-11-07 05:34:26	raiz	has anyone done that in their implementation?
2020-11-07 05:39:18	khuxkm	raiz: well it's in gemini-diagnostics that you should do so (though it's more descriptive and less prescriptive
2020-11-07 05:39:21	khuxkm	)
2020-11-07 05:39:53	raiz	what gemini-diagnostics?
2020-11-07 05:43:23	raiz	actually, nvm, the redirect makes sense, there should be an explicit path
2020-11-07 05:43:28	khuxkm	formerly jetforce-diagnostics
2020-11-07 05:43:38	khuxkm	https://github.com/michael-lazar/gemini-diagnostics
2020-11-07 05:44:35	raiz	sounds good
2020-11-07 05:44:45	raiz	there's so much torture in gemini space
2020-11-07 05:48:27		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-07 06:13:12	wingy	Has anyone made an extension to allow Gemini support in Firefox yet?
2020-11-07 06:13:37	wingy	more specifically waterfox because it supports XUL and custom protocols
2020-11-07 06:31:38	low-key	i do keep thinking about how handy it would be to have gemini support on firefox
2020-11-07 06:31:54	low-key	raiz: what do you mean by torture in geminispace?
2020-11-07 06:43:45	raiz	gemini://gemini.conman.org/test/torture/ <-- this
2020-11-07 06:43:51	raiz	https://github.com/michael-lazar/gemini-diagnostics <-- and this
2020-11-07 06:52:58		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-07 07:50:28	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 10:24:42		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-07 12:15:18		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-07 12:15:56	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 12:23:03	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 12:55:32	low-key	are you not supposed to update your files while gmnisrv is running?
2020-11-07 12:55:58	low-key	updated my index.gmi and then tried accessing it from a browser which said it couldn't establish a connection
2020-11-07 12:56:09	low-key	so checked in on gmnisrv and it had stopped
2020-11-07 13:38:15	bie	low-key: i haven't used gmiserv, but i can't imagine updating your files while it's running should be a problem
2020-11-07 13:38:25	bie	low-key: anything in your logs about how it died
2020-11-07 13:46:16	low-key	I didn't check.
2020-11-07 13:46:19	low-key	🙈
2020-11-07 14:12:56	aravk	was the discussion about a print newspaper of atom/rss feeds here?
2020-11-07 14:28:23	ew0k	aravk: I don’t know, but now I’m curious :D
2020-11-07 14:28:40	ddevault	aravk: yes
2020-11-07 14:29:58	ew0k	ddevault: how far back do I have to scroll? :)
2020-11-07 14:30:47	ddevault	last night
2020-11-07 14:31:01	ddevault	or you could just look at what I came up with so far: gemini://drewdevault.com/weekly.pdf
2020-11-07 14:38:53	aravk	^ that looks awesome
2020-11-07 14:39:40	aravk	I want to be able to hold something like that in my hand every morning but at the same time it feels like a huge waste of paper
2020-11-07 14:44:46	ddevault	could use an e-ink reader
2020-11-07 14:49:16		emerson has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-07 14:50:35	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 14:53:44	aravk	oh yeah, I have my kindle.  Haven't used it in forever
2020-11-07 14:56:59	ddevault	typeset another article: gemini://drewdevault.com/weekly.pdf
2020-11-07 14:57:09	ddevault	doing it by hand but trying to limit it to stuff I could teach a program to do
2020-11-07 14:58:32	▬▬▶	fleeky_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 14:58:38	ddevault	whoops, forgot to enter SSH password. It's up now
2020-11-07 14:59:02		fleeky_ has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-07 15:03:40		lucidiot has left #gemini ("WeeChat 2.8")
2020-11-07 15:09:37	low-key	Ariane just gives a success/application pdf toast notification
2020-11-07 15:14:15		makeworld has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-07 15:14:39	low-key	Does anyone have a binary of gmni?
2020-11-07 15:14:46		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-11-07 15:14:58	ddevault	why? it takes like 2 seconds to compile from source
2020-11-07 15:18:12	ddevault	well, here you go: gemini://drewdevault.com/gmni
2020-11-07 15:18:23	low-key	Thanks 🙈
2020-11-07 15:18:30	low-key	Because it wasn't compiling on my phone
2020-11-07 15:18:40	low-key	I did ssh into my vps to build it though
2020-11-07 15:18:55	ddevault	well, hold on, my nets are being shit again
2020-11-07 15:19:12	ddevault	you'd think that we'd have working mobile internet in 2020
2020-11-07 15:19:19	low-key	Hear hear
2020-11-07 15:19:31	low-key	Mine keeps completely disconnecting every 20 or so minutes
2020-11-07 15:20:25	ddevault	okay, it's uploaded
2020-11-07 15:20:38	low-key	So the recommended way to grab that pdf is to just use gmni with that url, right?
2020-11-07 15:21:00	low-key	Or should I be redirecting?
2020-11-07 15:22:00	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 15:22:10	acdw	morning
2020-11-07 15:22:33	ddevault	that
2020-11-07 15:22:37	ddevault	that's* one way, sure
2020-11-07 15:24:29	low-key	Morning acdw!
2020-11-07 15:24:36	ew0k	Now I suddenly wanna build a read-only fuse filesystem over gemini...
2020-11-07 15:25:07	acdw	hey low-key !
2020-11-07 15:25:33	ew0k	Any gmi document with links can be treated as a directory...
2020-11-07 15:26:43	low-key	how so?
2020-11-07 15:26:54	acdw	ddevault: i wonder if you could also do a epub...
2020-11-07 15:27:04	★	acdw looks to see if you can epub with latex
2020-11-07 15:27:26	low-key	ah, amfora has a very nice flow for downloads
2020-11-07 15:27:32	low-key	that thing doesn't cease to impress
2020-11-07 15:28:48	acdw	amfora++
2020-11-07 15:29:45	low-key	ddevault: that pdf is so well made!
2020-11-07 15:30:50	ddevault	thanks :) still have some work to do though
2020-11-07 15:36:00	ew0k	acdw: pandoc can do it
2020-11-07 15:36:54	ddevault	it would be smarter to just write a separate tool for preparing epubs
2020-11-07 15:37:36	acdw	ew0k: lolol
2020-11-07 15:37:54	acdw	oh ooof it's xhtml, right
2020-11-07 15:37:56	acdw	bleh
2020-11-07 15:41:40	acdw	ddevault: looking at the second pdf -- the one thing is the 2-column layout split up by the ASCII art becomes confusing as to wether it's across, then down or down then across
2020-11-07 15:41:58	ddevault	not sure how to improve that
2020-11-07 15:42:06	ddevault	though the latter would be significantly more difficult to pull off in latex
2020-11-07 15:44:27	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 15:45:29	acdw	yeah, it's just confusing which way it goes. i realized it's across then down, which i like --- and the full-width image makes the most sense for dispaly
2020-11-07 15:45:35	acdw	maybe a horizontal line after it?
2020-11-07 15:45:39	acdw	or ... hm
2020-11-07 15:45:42	acdw	tricky
2020-11-07 15:46:25		acdw has quit (quit: See you Space Cowpokes...)
2020-11-07 15:47:18	▬▬▶	breadw has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 15:47:30	xfnw	hi breadw 
2020-11-07 15:48:24	breadw	hi
2020-11-07 15:51:32	ℹ 	breadw is now known as acdw
2020-11-07 15:51:59	thefunkyspaw	Hi ddevault , I love your blog!
2020-11-07 15:52:50	low-key	since i finally found you here, ddevault I too would like to state for posterity that I love your blog and you are an inspiration
2020-11-07 15:54:54	ddevault	thanks!
2020-11-07 15:55:01	ddevault	glad you two enjoy it
2020-11-07 15:57:04	ew0k	gemini://tilde.team/~ew0k/gemini-and-post-part2.gmi
2020-11-07 15:57:45	acdw	awesome ew0k ! afaict, Titan is POST and Dioscuri is PUT
2020-11-07 15:58:42	ew0k	acdw: there's a difference in HTTP, but is there a difference in this case?
2020-11-07 15:58:56	acdw	yes, actually the creator of dioscuri told me that was the diff
2020-11-07 15:59:11	acdw	hold on, lemme find the references
2020-11-07 16:02:19	acdw	bah, i can't find it. but yea -- tbh i didn't realize there was a diff b/w POST and PUT, so I thought Titan and Dioscuri were doing the same thing
2020-11-07 16:02:22	acdw	apparently that's not the case
2020-11-07 16:07:38	ew0k	I can’t recall the difference in http now... would have to look that up
2020-11-07 16:07:49	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 16:08:00		fleeky has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-07 16:10:34	acdw	yeah i got no clue
2020-11-07 16:10:34		makeworld has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-07 16:10:45	acdw	i'm not what you'd call .... *good* at http
2020-11-07 16:12:35	▬▬▶	makeworld has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 16:13:04	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 16:28:41	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 16:32:34	makeworld	low-key: Thanks! You mean like the progress bar?
2020-11-07 16:32:44	makeworld	It's a little hacky in the background... don't tell anyone!
2020-11-07 16:33:26	makeworld	> looking at the second pdf
2020-11-07 16:33:48	makeworld	ddevault: Can you send a link to this other PDF? I was offline I think, I only saw weekly.pdf
2020-11-07 16:34:29	ddevault	I have been updating the same file
2020-11-07 16:34:31	ddevault	just re-download it
2020-11-07 16:34:33	makeworld	I still think that indenting the arrows would be a good idea so it's not in between the columns
2020-11-07 16:34:34	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-11-07 16:34:50	ddevault	I disagree
2020-11-07 16:34:52	ddevault	the arrows are deliberate
2020-11-07 16:35:32	makeworld	Yes they're deliberate, I just don't like how they are in between columns instead of at the same indentation level as the column text
2020-11-07 16:35:36	makeworld	A minor thing, though
2020-11-07 16:37:25	makeworld	I'm excited to get to poke around with your latex and code once you upload it, I haven't used latex in a while
2020-11-07 16:38:55	ddevault	here's the wip https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gemini-weekly
2020-11-07 16:39:27	makeworld	Oh great!
2020-11-07 16:41:31	makeworld	Oh I see, you've converted your articles manually for now
2020-11-07 16:42:24	ddevault	yeah
2020-11-07 16:42:29	ddevault	limited to changes which could be automated in theory, though
2020-11-07 16:42:33	ddevault	just trying to get the latex work done
2020-11-07 16:43:16	makeworld	Yeah that makes sense
2020-11-07 16:43:44	acdw	you're doing pure TeX?
2020-11-07 16:43:50	makeworld	Translation doesn't look tooo hard
2020-11-07 16:44:00	makeworld	acdw: No he's not
2020-11-07 16:44:03	acdw	oh okay
2020-11-07 16:44:20	acdw	it has been  a *long* time since I did TeX / LaTeX
2020-11-07 16:44:25	makeworld	It's just .tex files cause that's the extension people use I think
2020-11-07 16:44:29	acdw	forgot the extensions
2020-11-07 16:44:49	acdw	yeah,, u right :P --- I think *some* people use .ltx or .latex, but that's rare
2020-11-07 16:45:50	acdw	but yeah it'd be super simple to convert these
2020-11-07 16:46:43	ddevault	the only main issue I'm looking at right now is deciding how tall to make the minipages if I have to split a code block out of the multi-column lyaout
2020-11-07 16:46:45	ddevault	layout*
2020-11-07 16:46:58	ddevault	I'll probably either estimate it by wordcount or try to do some fancy math in latex
2020-11-07 16:47:32	ddevault	the other thing is to decide how many columns to use based on the width of things like URLs
2020-11-07 16:47:48	ddevault	and I'm going to do another layout for putting a bunch of shorter microblogs on one page
2020-11-07 16:48:55	acdw	multiple layouts si a good idea. looks like you're using letter paper? I wonder if this'd be better for bigger/different sized paper
2020-11-07 16:49:09	acdw	OR --- 1/2 page, for folding
2020-11-07 16:49:30	acdw	re: code block: possibly references, and have them at the end? idk
2020-11-07 16:50:00	ddevault	letter paper is probably better for broader compatibility with viewing mediums
2020-11-07 16:50:17	ddevault	but I could also offer multiple configurable layouts
2020-11-07 16:51:08	acdw	fair point -- and yes, if possible that'd be dope af
2020-11-07 16:51:57	acdw	honestly I like your source article formats -- if somebody wants to tweak their layout they could just take those and write their own latex class/shell docuemnt to include them all
2020-11-07 16:52:36	acdw	and like, redefine `gemurl` and `attrib` or whatev
2020-11-07 16:52:55	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 16:53:15	ddevault	right
2020-11-07 16:53:50	makeworld	I think doing half of US Letter would be nice
2020-11-07 16:53:58	makeworld	Like a tall zine format
2020-11-07 16:54:34	ddevault	would make it easier to print it out, fold it and staple it
2020-11-07 16:56:03	makeworld	Yeah exactly
2020-11-07 16:56:22	ddevault	will think about it
2020-11-07 16:56:28	ddevault	would also be a bit more difficult to lay out
2020-11-07 16:56:29	makeworld	Although for that you'd need two different formats I guess. One for reading with the page in order, and one for printing that does the zine page layout
2020-11-07 16:56:34	makeworld	Yeah
2020-11-07 16:56:40	ddevault	and would not fit that code block I have there
2020-11-07 16:57:31	acdw	you'd have to like, scale that down
2020-11-07 16:57:39	acdw	which i think would be a pain in the ass
2020-11-07 16:57:47	ddevault	it would be a major pain in the ass
2020-11-07 16:57:54	ddevault	my current plan is to focus on a magazine-style publication
2020-11-07 16:57:55	acdw	from what I remember of doing latex .. 8 years ago, math for pages is also a pain in the ass
2020-11-07 16:58:02	ddevault	I think the length of the typical gemini post serves that better
2020-11-07 16:58:17	acdw	makes sense
2020-11-07 16:58:17	ddevault	and I don't expect anyone to actually print these
2020-11-07 16:58:26	acdw	well that's where you're wrong :P
2020-11-07 16:58:35	acdw	i'm gonna print these out and sell em on the street corner
2020-11-07 16:58:45	acdw	broadsheets
2020-11-07 16:58:50	makeworld	^^
2020-11-07 16:58:51	ddevault	or if it does get printed, it'd probably be in the abstract future when the idea catches on and there's enough centralized resources to print it out as an actual magazine
2020-11-07 16:58:52	acdw	making em A0 size
2020-11-07 16:58:58	makeworld	Haha
2020-11-07 17:08:19	ew0k	ddevault: publish on lulu.com ;)
2020-11-07 17:18:21	nihilazo	I wish gemini:// links opened in my browser, idk how to set that up
2020-11-07 17:25:44	acdw	nihilazo: I know for Firefox at least, they have a whitelist of protocols you can define a handler for
2020-11-07 17:25:49	acdw	and gemini is not on that list
2020-11-07 17:26:07	nihilazo	this is just clicking links in my terminal, idk what handles that
2020-11-07 17:26:10	acdw	other browsers might be different, though I doubt Chrom* is... maybe qutebrowser / nyxt / something else
2020-11-07 17:26:11	nihilazo	probably XDG?
2020-11-07 17:26:16	acdw	nihilazo: probably XDG-open yea
2020-11-07 17:26:42	nihilazo	but when I XDG-open a gemini link it does open in my browser
2020-11-07 17:26:43	nihilazo	hmm
2020-11-07 17:26:47	nihilazo	maybe it's becuase it's a CLI app
2020-11-07 17:27:01	ddevault	probably because firefox thinks its hot shit and registers itself for every fucking protocol
2020-11-07 17:27:43	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 17:31:43	acdw	lol
2020-11-07 17:32:16	acdw	there should be some command ...https://superuser.com/questions/162092/how-can-i-register-a-custom-protocol-with-xdg
2020-11-07 17:32:32	acdw	you might have to do a .desktop file with MimeType
2020-11-07 17:32:38	acdw	freedesktop sux
2020-11-07 17:32:43	nihilazo	fucking .desktop files
2020-11-07 17:32:49	nihilazo	why can't anything be simple
2020-11-07 17:32:57	nihilazo	why can linux not just use plumbing rules
2020-11-07 17:33:15	nihilazo	actually, plumber support on linux would be great. But I digress
2020-11-07 17:33:52	acdw	i saw somebody made something that worked
2020-11-07 17:34:17	acdw	nihilazo: depending on your term emulator, you could probably also tell it to use something besides xdg-open to open files
2020-11-07 17:34:22		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-07 17:34:39	acdw	OR .. what i do sometimes is make a shell script called xdg-open and put it in a PATH dir before the one the "real" xdg-open is in
2020-11-07 17:34:45	acdw	with a big ass case statemtn
2020-11-07 17:34:54	nihilazo	that actually honestly sounds better than xdg-open
2020-11-07 17:35:34	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 17:37:00	acdw	lol yep
2020-11-07 17:38:34	ddevault	I do that as well
2020-11-07 17:40:46	aravk	I do that with e.g. ssh and scp for my custom config file locations, works great
2020-11-07 17:46:05		kiedtl has quit (quit: This, too, shall pass.)
2020-11-07 17:46:08	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 17:49:32	▬▬▶	breadw has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 17:49:54	breadw	we should share our big-ass case statements :P
2020-11-07 17:50:27	ddevault	is not really that big https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/dotfiles/tree/master/bin/xdg-open
2020-11-07 17:50:31	helby	hope I will not need pdf viewer to read gemzin ;)
2020-11-07 17:51:40	nihilazo	I didn't know qutebrowser could read pdfs
2020-11-07 17:52:16	raiz	gemizine
2020-11-07 17:52:16	nihilazo	what does "${1%%:*}" mean?
2020-11-07 17:53:01	ddevault	trims off everything after the :
2020-11-07 17:54:03	ddevault	https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3_chap02.html#tag_18_06
2020-11-07 17:55:24	nihilazo	cool. I really need to learn sh/bash properly sometime
2020-11-07 18:01:02	nihilazo	but fake xdg-open works, and I now wonder why real xdg-open has to be complex
2020-11-07 18:05:26		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-07 18:06:55		acdw has quit (NickServ (RECOVER command used by breadw))
2020-11-07 18:06:55	ℹ 	breadw is now known as acdw
2020-11-07 18:07:15	▬▬▶	breadw has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 18:08:24	idf	sup
2020-11-07 18:08:25	epoch	I have some scripts for doing xdg-open-like stuff too.
2020-11-07 18:08:37	acdw	sh is dope
2020-11-07 18:09:05	epoch	s https d pastebin.com:	tty || export 'HACK=x-terminal-emulator -e' ; $HACK less -f <(curl '%s://%d/raw%p')
2020-11-07 18:09:19	epoch	that's a config-line for mine
2020-11-07 18:10:32	acdw	uh
2020-11-07 18:10:33	acdw	wut
2020-11-07 18:10:39	epoch	you can use [sukdPpqfU] for matching parts of the URI
2020-11-07 18:10:50	epoch	and the same for inserting those parts into the pipeline to handle it
2020-11-07 18:11:29	epoch	scheme, username, key(password), domain, Port, path, querystring, fragment, (whole) URI
2020-11-07 18:13:26	acdw	oh dope
2020-11-07 18:13:28	nihilazo	the thing that's stopping me from properly learning sh is that it's like, confusing af to me
2020-11-07 18:13:32	acdw	epoch: link to your script?
2020-11-07 18:13:44	ddevault	read the spec, it's not very long
2020-11-07 18:14:02	acdw	oh freal?
2020-11-07 18:14:08	acdw	i didn't realize there was a spec tbh
2020-11-07 18:14:16	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/uritools/blob/master/uristart
2020-11-07 18:14:23	acdw	ty
2020-11-07 18:14:24	ddevault	it's part of POSIX
2020-11-07 18:14:32	acdw	oh no way! okay, looking it up
2020-11-07 18:15:00	acdw	oh waith, you're talking about POSIX sh
2020-11-07 18:15:02	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 18:15:05	acdw	not POSIX xdg-open
2020-11-07 18:15:17	ddevault	yes
2020-11-07 18:15:31	ddevault	though xdg stands for cross-desktop group, who also publish standards
2020-11-07 18:15:37	acdw	nihilazo: https://tilde.team/~ben/cgi-bin/man.sh?m=1p+sh
2020-11-07 18:15:38	ddevault	much worse standards
2020-11-07 18:15:42	acdw	oh yes
2020-11-07 18:15:48	acdw	screw them standards
2020-11-07 18:15:58	acdw	also TIL on xdg, thought it was some pun on Xorg
2020-11-07 18:16:04	acdw	there a Wdg ? :P
2020-11-07 18:16:15	ddevault	there is a group of people who make wayland standards
2020-11-07 18:16:17	ddevault	they are not xdg, though
2020-11-07 18:16:27	ddevault	there is a substantial overlap in membership
2020-11-07 18:16:33	acdw	that tracks
2020-11-07 18:16:46	epoch	https://freedesktop.org/
2020-11-07 18:17:14	ddevault	https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/4190946
2020-11-07 18:17:16	ddevault	err
2020-11-07 18:17:18	ddevault	https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols
2020-11-07 18:17:20	ddevault	pastefail
2020-11-07 18:17:36	ddevault	see GOVERNANCE.md for the structure
2020-11-07 18:18:45	bie	ww
2020-11-07 18:21:14	acdw	huh, funky
2020-11-07 18:21:26	idf	btw i added geminim in the nimble packages recently, if you have nim you can get it by just `nimble install geminim`
2020-11-07 18:27:02	bie	acdw: completely unrelated to gemini, but
2020-11-07 18:27:07	bie	what's your fav film?
2020-11-07 18:32:30	acdw	my goto fav is Wayne's World, but i Haven't seen it in a while
2020-11-07 18:32:40	bie	oh wow that's a really good choice
2020-11-07 18:33:10	acdw	my fav romcom is 1000% Moonstruck
2020-11-07 18:33:47	bie	nice
2020-11-07 18:34:19	bie	just watched harold and maude, for the second time
2020-11-07 18:38:25	acdw	so goood
2020-11-07 18:38:33	acdw	and the soundtrack *chefs kiss*
2020-11-07 18:39:01	bie	yessss
2020-11-07 18:39:39	bie	i listened to a podcast with cat stevens/yusuf islam a while ago
2020-11-07 18:40:22	bie	i don't mind people going... all religious... but i'm happy he feels comfortable playing his old songs again lol
2020-11-07 18:41:15	makeworld	nihilazo: Gemini links work in my Firefox
2020-11-07 18:41:30	makeworld	It's cause the .desktop files define those applications as gemini scheme handlers
2020-11-07 18:41:41	makeworld	MimeType=x-scheme-handler/gemini;
2020-11-07 18:41:57	makeworld	Pretty ugly way to do it, but it works
2020-11-07 18:42:30	nihilazo	huh
2020-11-07 18:42:40	nihilazo	I just wrote an xdg-open replacement script
2020-11-07 18:43:10	makeworld	Not sure if Firefox looks at that, good luck
2020-11-07 18:43:25	nihilazo	well I'm not using firefox
2020-11-07 18:43:28	nihilazo	I'm using qutebrowser
2020-11-07 18:48:04	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-11-07 18:50:30	bie	qutebrowser woww
2020-11-07 18:51:46	bie	acdw: if i ever get a proper oven, i'll apply to join breadpunk.club :x
2020-11-07 18:52:24	ddevault	design & build your own oven
2020-11-07 18:52:37	alex11	hey how do i go to links more than 10?
2020-11-07 18:52:40	ddevault	you could make one in your back yard inside of a few hours
2020-11-07 18:52:45	alex11	in amfora, specifically, i guess
2020-11-07 18:53:08	bie	ddevault: no back yard lol
2020-11-07 18:53:29	bie	i can probably rent an oven tho
2020-11-07 18:53:32	ddevault	appropriate someone else's back yard
2020-11-07 18:53:36	bie	yesss
2020-11-07 18:54:40	makeworld	alex11: Press space then type the link number. It's in the help menu.
2020-11-07 18:54:53	makeworld	You're not the first person to ask, I'm unsure how to make it more obvious though
2020-11-07 18:55:17	alex11	thanks, i did look at the help but i guess i'm stupid and missed it
2020-11-07 18:55:39	makeworld	Maybe change the bottom bar prompt from "URL/Num./Search:" to "URL/Link num./Search:"
2020-11-07 18:55:43	makeworld	Ha no worries
2020-11-07 18:59:21	acdw	bie: nice!
2020-11-07 18:59:30	acdw	tho you don't have to bake to be a breadpunk
2020-11-07 19:00:41		breadw has quit (quit: See you Space Cowpokes...)
2020-11-07 19:02:31	bie	acdw: oh man, what are the alternatives? just cooking a steak? some veggies?
2020-11-07 19:02:41		helby has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-07 19:02:51	bie	i like baing, just don't have an oven -,-
2020-11-07 19:04:57	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 19:06:51	ddevault	I too enjoy baing
2020-11-07 19:24:29	bie	acdw: ever listen to the wedding present?
2020-11-07 19:54:08	acdw	bie: lol sure!
2020-11-07 19:54:14	acdw	just do stuff urself :)
2020-11-07 20:25:43		thefunkyspaw has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-07 20:25:46	▬▬▶	thefunkyspaw has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 20:32:37		raiz has quit (quit: EOF)
2020-11-07 21:14:45		wingy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-07 21:15:05		mhj has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-07 21:16:20	▬▬▶	mhj has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 21:16:24	kiedtl	Is using box-drawing characters for tables in preformatted blocks discouraged?
2020-11-07 21:16:37	acdw	not by me
2020-11-07 21:17:01	kiedtl	hmm good
2020-11-07 21:18:06	kiedtl	I'm sure most use fonts that support them; I guess its use shouldn't cause issues
2020-11-07 21:18:43	acdw	the thing that gets tricky is ANSI escapes
2020-11-07 21:18:54	acdw	but since gemini is UTF-8 by default, i'd say your good
2020-11-07 21:19:22	kiedtl	ANSI escapes?
2020-11-07 21:19:57	kiedtl	do you mean VTE escape sequences?
2020-11-07 21:20:39	acdw	yes
2020-11-07 21:20:44	acdw	i think
2020-11-07 21:20:48	acdw	i thought they were the same
2020-11-07 21:21:30	kiedtl	they are
2020-11-07 21:22:02	acdw	oh lol
2020-11-07 21:22:03	kiedtl	I mean, I had no idea clients supported those in gemini documents
2020-11-07 21:22:16	acdw	oh right
2020-11-07 21:22:24	acdw	bollux does, a few others do
2020-11-07 21:22:29	acdw	mostly just the color ones
2020-11-07 21:22:42	acdw	but yeah, super nonstandard, probably a bad idea
2020-11-07 21:24:35	makeworld	Some do, don't expect it to work
2020-11-07 21:24:43	makeworld	Amfora does :)
2020-11-07 21:24:49	makeworld	But only in preformatted blocks
2020-11-07 21:25:51	kiedtl	I don't think I'll ever use it. It's bad enough that I'm using box-drawing characters and mixing presentation and content, lol.
2020-11-07 21:25:58	acdw	ha
2020-11-07 21:29:33	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 21:30:59	lukee	here's an opinion: ANSI escapes are a bad hack that assumes a terminal client.
2020-11-07 21:32:01	lukee	they use the raw mechanics of a specific implementation technology. Like embedding raw C or html in your content and expecting it to be interpreted
2020-11-07 21:32:30	acdw	^ fair
2020-11-07 21:32:40	acdw	yeah for sure, that's why i quit using them
2020-11-07 21:32:44	zephryn	that's true, yeah
2020-11-07 21:33:25	lukee	if we drink the plain text cool aid, we have to try to at least enjoy it
2020-11-07 21:33:42	kiedtl	here's a very primitive log view that shows the logs from today: gemini://tilde.team/~kiedtl/irc/gem/today
2020-11-07 21:33:53	kiedtl	send nitpicks, will be back in 10 minutes
2020-11-07 21:33:55	★	kiedtl off
2020-11-07 21:34:12	lukee	box drawing is fine - there are unicode code points for it
2020-11-07 21:36:14	acdw	i like the |
2020-11-07 21:42:59	lukee	fun to see another rendering of the IRC logs, but my favourite is kevinsan's Gemini version which wraps nicely to the window gemini://gemini.susa.net/cgi-bin/gemini-irc
2020-11-07 21:43:58	lukee	if you use a preformatted region, it can require a lot of scrolling if the client tries to preserve the fixed layout
2020-11-07 21:52:24	▬▬▶	wingy has joined #gemini
2020-11-07 21:52:36	acdw	true
2020-11-07 21:52:40	acdw	i like that kevinsan 
2020-11-07 21:54:40	kiedtl	Oh, you like kev's version? I kinda find that one hard to follow conversations, lol
2020-11-07 21:54:56	acdw	i mean, i didn't try to read it hah
2020-11-07 21:55:48	kiedtl	but yeah, I see your point about my viewer being hard to scroll
2020-11-07 21:56:04	kiedtl	one sec
2020-11-07 21:56:26	★	kiedtl wonders whether /bin/fold could be used to pre-wrap messages
2020-11-07 21:56:49	acdw	prolly
2020-11-07 21:56:52	acdw	or par
2020-11-07 21:56:58	boringcactus	well then you're guessing the size ahead of time, and spoilers, you'll guess wrong most of the time
2020-11-07 21:57:32	acdw	true
2020-11-07 22:04:39	kiedtl	Correct; but 75 isn't a bad guess, and the worst that will happen is that users have to scroll sideways /anyway/ (as this is all going in a preff blk)
2020-11-07 22:05:12	acdw	^
2020-11-07 22:09:00	kiedtl	or, in the case of a terminal > 80 chars, there will be a bunch of wasted space
2020-11-07 22:09:17	kiedtl	I think I'll provide log viewers in kev's style and in this style.
2020-11-07 22:17:35	acdw	ooh maybe have a query that lets the user specify width
2020-11-07 22:18:34	lukee	irc-log?wrap=80
2020-11-07 22:18:46	acdw	ye
2020-11-07 22:19:16	kiedtl	hmm that's an interesting idea
2020-11-07 22:19:34	kiedtl	wait... does gemini support multiple queries for the same page?
2020-11-07 22:19:59	boringcactus	i mean
2020-11-07 22:20:07	lukee	you can stuff whatever you want into the query as long as it meets the URL spec
2020-11-07 22:20:09	boringcactus	yeah
2020-11-07 22:21:25	acdw	like http queries -- irc-log?wrap=80&color=blue&me=you
2020-11-07 22:25:10	kiedtl	Ah, good
2020-11-07 22:28:07	★	lukee wants to visit a web application needing a parameter &me=you
2020-11-07 22:28:44	★	lukee meant a gemini application of course...
2020-11-07 22:28:53	acdw	aha
2020-11-07 22:28:55	acdw	make one!
2020-11-07 22:35:53	lukee	acdw: I'm thinking...
2020-11-07 22:38:33	acdw	:D
2020-11-07 22:40:26	kiedtl	I've added the wrap-width prompt and timestamps: gemini://tilde.team/~kiedtl/irc/gem/today
2020-11-07 22:40:31	kiedtl	does that look better?
2020-11-07 22:47:56	acdw	nice
2020-11-07 22:48:23	acdw	oh dope
2020-11-07 22:48:25	acdw	looks awesome
2020-11-07 22:49:01	acdw	amazing kiedtl !!!
2020-11-07 22:49:03	acdw	i love it
2020-11-07 22:49:10	acdw	i wish emacs acutally had an irc client that looked like this
2020-11-07 22:54:17	kiedtl	great!
2020-11-07 22:54:32	kiedtl	Now for the search page
2020-11-07 22:55:53	kayw	wow that's super cool
2020-11-07 23:01:49	lukee	acdw: I have it
2020-11-07 23:02:22	acdw	YES!!??
2020-11-07 23:02:25	lukee	a poignant conversation script assembler
2020-11-07 23:02:37	acdw	oooh
2020-11-07 23:02:39	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/conversation-fragment.cgi?me=Why%20did%20you%20follow%20me%20here%20to%20the%20station%3F%20I%20thought%20we%20had%20said%20our%20goodbyes...&you=me
2020-11-07 23:03:44	acdw	aww it's not a url encoded web form
2020-11-07 23:03:53	lukee	at the moment it just allows each character to say something once. I might fix it up so it can have a back and forth dialog
2020-11-07 23:03:58	acdw	gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/conversation-fragment.cgi?me=Why%20did%20you%20follow%20me%20here%20to%20the%20station%3F%20I%20thought%20we%20had%20said%20our%20goodbyes...&you=me
2020-11-07 23:04:07	acdw	** Where: forskip do either either either -apply-
2020-11-07 23:04:07	acdw	** Near: forskip params 2 [
2020-11-07 23:04:07	acdw	    print rejoin [
2020-11-07 23:04:07	acdw	        "* " (first pa...
2020-11-07 23:04:13	acdw	^ there
2020-11-07 23:05:53	lukee	huh
2020-11-07 23:06:02	lukee	try this simpler one gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/conversation-fragment.cgi?kirk=give%20me%20warp%20speed
2020-11-07 23:09:06	acdw	that one worked
2020-11-07 23:09:09	acdw	super dope :)
2020-11-07 23:10:26	lukee	but the first one not?
2020-11-07 23:11:28	acdw	nope
2020-11-07 23:12:20	lukee	what client?
2020-11-07 23:12:23	acdw	elpher
2020-11-07 23:12:29	acdw	it returns a cgi error
2020-11-07 23:12:48	acdw	it might've been the way i copied & pasted the url...let me try typing one out myself
2020-11-07 23:13:21		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-07 23:13:44	acdw	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/conversation-fragment.cgi?kirk=KHAAANNNNNNNNNNNN&spock=what%20about%20him&kirk=KHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHNNNNNNNNN&spock=omg%20kirk
2020-11-07 23:13:49	acdw	this worked
2020-11-07 23:14:03	acdw	oh you can't do a full conversation
2020-11-07 23:14:15	lukee	not yet :)
2020-11-07 23:14:19	acdw	haha
2020-11-07 23:15:06	lukee	I just need to sort out the param parsing. Just a hack right now
2020-11-07 23:15:31	acdw	still,great idea :)
2020-11-07 23:27:19		tane has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-07 23:49:56		acdw has quit (quit: See you Space Cowpokes...)
2020-11-08 00:17:00		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-08 00:23:13	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 00:26:43		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-08 00:35:02		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-08 00:35:09	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 00:43:45		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 00:56:31	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 01:00:35	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 01:06:00		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 01:43:43		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-08 01:52:24	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 02:32:54		ComputerTech has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-11-08 02:35:11	▬▬▶	ComputerTech has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 03:11:48	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 03:40:29		helby has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-08 04:00:01		avane has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-11-08 04:01:32	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 04:21:28		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 04:25:48	▬▬▶	rawburt has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 04:31:13	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 05:10:42		awalvie has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-08 05:14:12		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-08 05:19:43		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-08 05:21:55	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 05:27:27		isvarahparamahkrsnah has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-08 05:27:27	▬▬▶	isvarahparamahkrsnah has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 05:36:57		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-08 05:37:02	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 05:47:29	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 05:47:29		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-08 05:47:30	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-11-08 05:50:01	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 06:27:30		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 06:30:32	khuxkm	i wrote a spartan client to demonstrate 21 vs 22 responses https://gist.github.com/febd3f5ae2308e8b55449a92c6e58a65
2020-11-08 06:30:36	khuxkm	also posted to the ML
2020-11-08 06:39:03		rawburt has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-08 06:49:51	ew0k	Why is Ali so hostile on the ML? That people have feature proposals is just good. That 99,9% of them are shot down is good too :D
2020-11-08 06:51:12	boringcactus	i think having an attitude of every feature is a bad idea unless it can justify its existence is reasonable
2020-11-08 06:51:30	boringcactus	and. i'm still waiting for shaping the protocol around cacheing to do that
2020-11-08 06:51:45	boringcactus	but i am getting. extremely tired. of the bikeshedding
2020-11-08 07:02:34	ew0k	Wanted: a daily digest of the ML in podcast form
2020-11-08 07:02:57	ew0k	I keep forgetting what the term bikeshedding means
2020-11-08 07:04:25	ew0k	and yes, every feature is a bad idea until orherwise proven. It’s the tone of his responses I was talking about
2020-11-08 07:07:57	khuxkm	I mean, as long as "bad idea" just extends to "we're not going to implement it unless you can show why or where it could be useful", that'd fine
2020-11-08 07:08:05	khuxkm	s/that'd/that's/
2020-11-08 07:08:47	khuxkm	but when it extends to "i'm going to belittle your very existence and contributions toward the protocol just because i don't like your idea" that's when it stops being reasonable and starts being elitism
2020-11-08 07:11:48		griffin has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-08 07:11:50		jcowan has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-08 07:11:52	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 07:12:10	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 07:14:06	boringcactus	like. we're mostly done now, i think, with content-length TotallyNotHeaders
2020-11-08 07:14:25	boringcactus	it's settled that there's no actually good way to do that, but it took a while
2020-11-08 07:15:02	boringcactus	and another "hey let's add some complexity somewhere else" proposal when we just got done rejecting the last one
2020-11-08 07:15:08	boringcactus	gets old fast
2020-11-08 07:17:15	boringcactus	but like.
2020-11-08 07:17:32	boringcactus	you can't cache-by-default, because you have no way of knowing which things will change and which things won't
2020-11-08 07:17:44	boringcactus	any client that assumes everything can be cached is a client that's broken
2020-11-08 07:18:13	boringcactus	and adding 2x to mean You Can Cache This If You Want I Guess Because It Probably Won't Change is
2020-11-08 07:18:22	boringcactus	like. what does that even gain
2020-11-08 07:18:48	boringcactus	and even if there's something to be gained there, i do not understand how it could justify its own addition
2020-11-08 07:18:50	khuxkm	>you can't cache-by-default
2020-11-08 07:19:00	khuxkm	except there are in fact clients that do cache-by-default
2020-11-08 07:19:20	boringcactus	well those clients either do that within history and so preserve principle-of-least-surprise or are broken
2020-11-08 07:19:51	khuxkm	so Amfora is broken then, since it's my understanding amfora does caching by session
2020-11-08 07:20:06	khuxkm	which can be an arbitrarily long time
2020-11-08 07:20:33	boringcactus	well if it assumes pages never change then yeah
2020-11-08 07:20:50	khuxkm	well it caches within the browsing session
2020-11-08 07:21:07	khuxkm	but that browsing session can be basically as long as you keep amfora open in a screen/tmux window
2020-11-08 07:21:50	khuxkm	I mean my idea was just to add a "absolutely don't cache this please whatever you do to my other stuff leave this one alone" status code (for CGI guestbooks, random image servers, etc.)
2020-11-08 07:21:56	boringcactus	that should be 20
2020-11-08 07:22:04	khuxkm	see, I don't agree with you on that
2020-11-08 07:22:09	boringcactus	"don't assume you can cache this" should be the default
2020-11-08 07:22:18	khuxkm	because nowhere in the spec does it say you can't cache a 20 response
2020-11-08 07:22:45	boringcactus	but making servers all implement your 2x "don't fuckin cache this" if they want clients to behave reasonably is boiling the ocean
2020-11-08 07:23:25	khuxkm	no server *has* to implement the don't fuckin cache this status code
2020-11-08 07:23:43	boringcactus	if they want to be compatible with clients that will otherwise fuckin cache this, they will
2020-11-08 07:23:53	khuxkm	well you already have to deal with clients that will
2020-11-08 07:23:58	boringcactus	well, no
2020-11-08 07:24:01	khuxkm	yes
2020-11-08 07:24:04	boringcactus	those clients are just being weird
2020-11-08 07:24:18	boringcactus	and the spec should not make that weirdness the default after the fact
2020-11-08 07:24:27	khuxkm	it's not though
2020-11-08 07:24:41	khuxkm	all I'm saying is to add a "feel free to cache this" code and a "don't cache this" code
2020-11-08 07:24:48	khuxkm	20 would remain as it always has been
2020-11-08 07:25:03	khuxkm	but this prospective 21 and 22 would just be cache hints in case you wanted to implement caching
2020-11-08 07:25:39	boringcactus	"if you want to add this maybe-a-misfeature to your client, the server can get more complicated too in order to tell you how to implement it"
2020-11-08 07:25:41	boringcactus	like
2020-11-08 07:25:52	khuxkm	it's literally 2 more numbers
2020-11-08 07:26:04	boringcactus	this time it's two more numbers
2020-11-08 07:26:06	khuxkm	you already have to memorize a bunch of numbers to get gemini responses correct
2020-11-08 07:26:21	khuxkm	there won't be a next time; what else can you even add like this?
2020-11-08 07:26:30	boringcactus	like. this is even less compelling than content-length, and content-length couldn't justify itself
2020-11-08 07:26:33	khuxkm	not Content-Length, that's invalid with 2x META
2020-11-08 07:27:21	khuxkm	it's less compelling to *you*, certainly, but that doesn't mean it's less compelling to *everybody*
2020-11-08 07:27:40	khuxkm	also content-length does have a valid use but it wouldn't fit in the protocol and there's no room for it
2020-11-08 07:27:53	khuxkm	meanwhile this is literally just "you can serve this code if you want to"
2020-11-08 07:27:54	boringcactus	all three make it distinct from cacheing
2020-11-08 07:28:21	khuxkm	how so
2020-11-08 07:28:26	boringcactus	shit i oversnarked and no longer make sense
2020-11-08 07:28:34	khuxkm	understandable
2020-11-08 07:29:10	boringcactus	if we add more bullshit this one time, the next time somebody comes up with more bullshit somebody's gonna go "well remember the last time we added more bullshit?"
2020-11-08 07:30:15	khuxkm	but how can you add more bullshit under this framework? you'd need to define a whole new class of status codes for Content-Length
2020-11-08 07:30:50	boringcactus	23, first line of response is (content-length | SHA512 | author's favorite ice cream flavor)
2020-11-08 07:31:01	boringcactus	or alternatively 25 Make It Purple
2020-11-08 07:31:04	khuxkm	but that's not a mime type
2020-11-08 07:31:15	khuxkm	and therefore it's not compatible with 20
2020-11-08 07:32:11	boringcactus	i am still not sure why cacheing is so good it deserves to have not one but two new status codes (although it doesn't because the don't assume you can cache this status code is already 20 if you want your client to actually work)
2020-11-08 07:32:25	aravk	Has anyone made a Gemini server that returns (raw) wikipedia pages?  Apparently you can use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export/<exact title> to get an XML file containing the raw wiki-formatted text.
2020-11-08 07:32:31	khuxkm	again I disagree with you there, but I also kinda agree with you there
2020-11-08 07:32:45	khuxkm	I just wanted a "please don't cache this" code
2020-11-08 07:33:01	boringcactus	then use 20, and if there are broken clients, take it up with the client author
2020-11-08 07:33:02	khuxkm	which would leave clients to decide whether or not they wanted to cache 20 responses
2020-11-08 07:33:36	khuxkm	so I'm supposed to bug every single person who has or will ever make a client if something isn't working the way I think it ought to
2020-11-08 07:33:40	khuxkm	good talk
2020-11-08 07:33:44	aravk	if a "please don't cache this" code was added, servers could detect that it's needed if the last mod time of the file being served was less than 10 minutes ago
2020-11-08 07:33:46	boringcactus	if a client rot13s the text before displaying it, that's the client being broken, and you don't need a 24 status code
2020-11-08 07:34:04	khuxkm	that's... not even in the same ballpark
2020-11-08 07:34:10	khuxkm	not sure where you got that one from
2020-11-08 07:34:31	boringcactus	if a client machine translates the text from Italian to French before displaying it, that's the client being broken, and you don't need a 25 status code
2020-11-08 07:34:44	khuxkm	again, not in the same ballpark
2020-11-08 07:34:51	boringcactus	if the client wants to make incorrect assumptions about content, that's the client's problem, not the protocol's
2020-11-08 07:35:12	khuxkm	but how is the client meant to make assumptions about the content?
2020-11-08 07:35:21	boringcactus	it should make as few as possible
2020-11-08 07:35:36	khuxkm	so be wasteful because it's not like global warming exists or anything
2020-11-08 07:35:37	khuxkm	got it
2020-11-08 07:35:59	boringcactus	ah yes, because downloading half a kilobyte of gemtext a second time is literally as harmful as dumping millions of barrels of oil into the ocean
2020-11-08 07:36:07	aravk	the overhead of retrieving (almost always very small) pages is not that high, khuxkm
2020-11-08 07:36:35	khuxkm	>(almost always very small)
2020-11-08 07:36:43	khuxkm	I thought we weren't making assumptions about content, my bad
2020-11-08 07:36:51	khuxkm	either way, the overhead isn't 0
2020-11-08 07:36:54	aravk	sure
2020-11-08 07:37:08	aravk	but it's far less than many of the other things people can (and do) do to reduce global warming
2020-11-08 07:37:24	boringcactus	if you want to download a page just once and then view it locally, you can just. do that
2020-11-08 07:37:49	aravk	and also the protocol is designed to be for serving small text/gemini files - yes, you can serve big stuff, but it's generally discouraged
2020-11-08 07:38:12	aravk	and in fact if it's a big file you're even less likely to try to view it again (because it's generally a one-time download)
2020-11-08 07:38:26	aravk	no point in caching in these situations
2020-11-08 07:38:35	khuxkm	I believe the example given was a CGI endpoint that returns a random image
2020-11-08 07:38:52	boringcactus	that's *an* example, yes
2020-11-08 07:39:04	boringcactus	but hardly the only kind of dynamic content over gemini
2020-11-08 07:39:56	aravk	clients can simply cache pages in the previous-in-history and forward-in-history list
2020-11-08 07:40:05	aravk	and then if the user wants to update the page they can simply reload
2020-11-08 07:40:15	khuxkm	okay but the point is that some clients do that and other clients don't
2020-11-08 07:40:19	aravk	yes
2020-11-08 07:40:23	aravk	that's the point of having multiple clients
2020-11-08 07:40:28	boringcactus	cacheing within history maintains principle of least surprise
2020-11-08 07:40:33	khuxkm	and apparently we're not in the business of telling the clients what they can and can't do
2020-11-08 07:40:40	aravk	true, we aren't
2020-11-08 07:40:47	aravk	but there are lots of conventions building up
2020-11-08 07:41:01	boringcactus	we're not in the business of extending the protocol to give pathways for the server to tell the client how it should handle some certain type of behavior
2020-11-08 07:41:09	boringcactus	i love telling clients what they can and can't do
2020-11-08 07:41:23	boringcactus	well, more accurately, what they should and shouldn't do
2020-11-08 07:41:40	boringcactus	and a thing a client shouldn't do is assume all content on gemini is static content that can be cached indefinitely
2020-11-08 07:42:15	boringcactus	just like a thing a client shouldn't do is assume all content on gemini is written in Italian and machine translate it to French for easier reading
2020-11-08 07:43:55	boringcactus	like. as a user, if i go back in my history and i see recognizably stale content, i've been trained by http clients doing the same thing to just hit refresh and call it a day
2020-11-08 07:44:24	boringcactus	but if i follow a link or something, i'm expecting to see what the server actually gave me
2020-11-08 07:44:41	boringcactus	not "so i remember three days ago the last time you were here, this is what the server said, so that's still good, right?"
2020-11-08 07:45:11	khuxkm	except logic would follow that, being trained from HTTP clients doing the same thing, you'd notice that you might not be getting the perfect latest bit of the response
2020-11-08 07:45:33	khuxkm	because I've had plenty of times where i had to hit force-refresh after changing something, even if it wasn't in history
2020-11-08 07:45:48	khuxkm	but whatever, I'm not going to get anywhere with you, you have your preconceptions and I have mine
2020-11-08 07:45:52	khuxkm	that's okay
2020-11-08 07:47:59	boringcactus	like with redirects, the default is assume it's temporary, and there's a separate fancy option for "you can remember this forever, if you want'
2020-11-08 07:48:15	boringcactus	so you could make a case by analogy that 21 SUCCESS BUT CACHE IF YOU WANT would make sense
2020-11-08 07:48:58	khuxkm	but the problem is "how is the server going to know if you can safely cache a response"
2020-11-08 07:49:12	boringcactus	the same way it knows if you can safely cache a redirect
2020-11-08 07:49:20	boringcactus	i.e. 🤷
2020-11-08 07:49:37	khuxkm	it's much more likely that a CGI script will return a different value on each request, and therefore shouldn't be cached
2020-11-08 07:49:57	boringcactus	in which case the server should continue to give a 20
2020-11-08 07:51:06	khuxkm	okay, you're assuming 20 == no cache
2020-11-08 07:51:16	khuxkm	which is not always the case in practice
2020-11-08 07:51:33	boringcactus	well
2020-11-08 07:51:41	boringcactus	do you mean in terms of server intent or client behavior
2020-11-08 07:52:04	khuxkm	yes?
2020-11-08 07:52:17	khuxkm	the intent isn't to be "YOU MUST" or "YOU MUST NOT"
2020-11-08 07:52:39	khuxkm	the intent is to be like "i mean you can if you like" or "please don't"
2020-11-08 07:52:48	khuxkm	it's more of a hint rather than a statement
2020-11-08 07:53:23	khuxkm	honestly though I kinda like spc's idea a little better? kinda?
2020-11-08 07:53:40	khuxkm	certainly would be interesting to see if/how it could be handled server-side
2020-11-08 07:54:03	boringcactus	hm
2020-11-08 07:54:15	boringcactus	it doesn't involve fucking with the protocol itself, so that's always a plus
2020-11-08 07:56:05	khuxkm	uh, yes it does?
2020-11-08 07:56:12	khuxkm	either way we're adding a status code
2020-11-08 07:56:13	boringcactus	oh
2020-11-08 07:56:14	boringcactus	i'm
2020-11-08 07:56:20	boringcactus	ignore that, it's late
2020-11-08 07:56:24	boringcactus	like. adding one status code is half as much as adding two status codes, and defining one as the default hint and making the other one an optional thing makes more sense to me than making them both separate
2020-11-08 07:56:56	boringcactus	and defining "cache this if you want i guess" as the default breaks cgi on some clients until it catches up
2020-11-08 07:56:56	khuxkm	the main issue I'm seeing is how to parse the path parameter out
2020-11-08 07:57:39	khuxkm	since older servers that haven't "caught up" to the new spec won't understand unless they've got amazing URL parsing clients
2020-11-08 07:57:45	khuxkm	s/clients/libraries/
2020-11-08 07:58:21	khuxkm	Python, for instance, doesn't filter out the path params
2020-11-08 07:58:32	khuxkm	at least, not by default...
2020-11-08 07:59:07	boringcactus	i mean. couldn't you get something similar by returning a 44 SLOW DOWN
2020-11-08 07:59:15	khuxkm	you have to add gemini to urllib.parse.uses_params
2020-11-08 07:59:56	boringcactus	because that already has the semantics of "don't ask me about this right this second"
2020-11-08 08:00:59	boringcactus	and if a crawler/fancy client/feed reader/whatever gets back a 51 NOT FOUND (which imo shouldn't count as a permanent failure but whatever) for a semicolon-timestamped URL then it just assumes the server doesn't know about timestamp-caching
2020-11-08 08:07:38	khuxkm	true
2020-11-08 08:11:40	boringcactus	building it on 44 means the specification as a document doesn't have to change a damn line
2020-11-08 08:12:52	boringcactus	if you really think the protocol spec needs 21 SUCCESS - PERMANENT by analogy with 31 REDIRECT - PERMANENT then keep fighting for it i guess, but you can get a similar effect by building within the protocol that already exists
2020-11-08 08:21:04	khuxkm	I didn't want SUCCESS - PERMANENT
2020-11-08 08:21:42	khuxkm	also I fail to see how 44 SLOW DOWN is the same as "request is OK but no data"
2020-11-08 08:22:43	khuxkm	"The request was handled successfully" vs "The request has failed."
2020-11-08 08:22:47	khuxkm	boringcactus: ^
2020-11-08 08:23:17	boringcactus	yeah but SUCCESS - PERMANENT is a better thing to want than SUCCESS - PERMANENT and also SUCCESS - TEMPORARY
2020-11-08 08:28:26	boringcactus	and a client asking about caching could reasonably interpret a 44 with a timeout of 0 as "i do not have anything for you right now"
2020-11-08 08:28:58	boringcactus	and even if it wasn't meant that way and was just "try again in zero seconds" the server doesn't have any data to give
2020-11-08 08:36:23		jcowan has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 08:36:36		englishm has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 08:36:42		griffin has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 08:36:56		Sario|IRCCloud has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 08:37:10		hhes has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 08:37:26		wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 08:44:14		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-08 08:52:31	▬▬▶	Sario|IRCCloud has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 08:52:31	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 08:52:56	▬▬▶	jcowan has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 08:53:12	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 08:53:16	▬▬▶	griffin has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 08:53:57	▬▬▶	hhes has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 08:54:08	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 09:04:21	ew0k	I have thoughts on this, but not much time to elaborate rn. In short: the user (not client or server) should have final say, imho. I’ll try to remember to elaborate on it later either here, on the ML or a gemlog :)
2020-11-08 09:12:02		Sario|IRCCloud has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 09:12:49	▬▬▶	Sario|IRCCloud has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 10:00:32		wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 10:00:43	▬▬▶	wgreenhouse has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 10:09:39	▬▬▶	lieu has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 10:23:05	▬▬▶	lieu1 has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 10:24:07		lieu has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-08 10:27:58	lieu1	hey guys, I have been looking at gemini for quite a while now, I think it is quite interesting. I have a question: given that one can serve any sort of response (binary data) in the response body, doesn't this mean that applications, videos etc could be serve? and wouldn't this defeat the purpose of gemini?
2020-11-08 10:28:04	lieu1	please let me know if my question makes sense
2020-11-08 10:29:55	insep	i've definitely seen images and pdfs served over gemini
2020-11-08 10:30:13	ℹ 	lieu1 is now known as lieu
2020-11-08 10:30:40	insep	but note that gemini doesn't have any sort of compression, so it's a little bit inefficient to serve huge files over it
2020-11-08 10:30:43	lieu	yes that makes sense but then doesn't that mean you could also serve other "bad" data like applications and what not
2020-11-08 10:30:48	insep	at least that's what faq says
2020-11-08 10:30:52	lieu	wasn't the express purpose of gemini to be a simpler web
2020-11-08 10:35:37	lieu	> Gemini should be able to be used for as many other purposes as possible without compromising the simplicity and privacy criteria above.  This means taking into account possible applications built around non-text files and non-human clients
2020-11-08 10:36:59	lieu	i am trying to find a way to convince my friends (and myself to some degree) of the point of Gemini so would appreciate if anyone had some thoughts on this
2020-11-08 10:53:07	bie	insep: serving huge files isn't that inefficient
2020-11-08 10:53:50	ew0k	lieu: imho the big gain with gemini is the small amount of client to server calls. Wanna fetch a capsule (gemini lingo for page)? That’s *one* get call. On a web page it’s usually tens to hundreds (the main file, stylesheets, javascript, analytics, trackers, images...)
2020-11-08 10:56:14	ew0k	if you want to serve a single file, whether it’s pdf, image, or other binary file, the protocol itself isn’t optimized for it. It’s not *bad*, necessarily. Though if it’s a big file and download is interrupted you’ll have to start again
2020-11-08 10:57:46	lieu	i see
2020-11-08 10:57:48	ew0k	if you download a binary file from the web, you’ll often find that the webpage serving it takes you on a route through a page that collects analytics and tracking cookies before redirecting you to the actual file. That behaviour is not really possible with gemini
2020-11-08 10:57:55	lieu	but is just reducing the number of server calls a compelling enough reason
2020-11-08 10:58:25	ew0k	that depends :) for me it is. I can’t speak for your friends
2020-11-08 10:59:45	lieu	could there ever be games built on gemini?
2020-11-08 10:59:53	ew0k	It’s a sort of freedom argument there too. To build a web browser is a gargantuan task. Not even Microsoft can do it comptetitively anymore; pretty much all web browsers will be reskins of chrome
2020-11-08 11:00:20	ew0k	gemini itself has no concept of scripting, so not really.
2020-11-08 11:00:24	lieu	by this i mean since servers can send 1x INPUT status codes to request user input
2020-11-08 11:00:56	bie	i mean, you can serve some kind of "game file" over gemini
2020-11-08 11:01:03	lieu	it seems possible that clients can send arbitrary text input AND that servers can return arbitrary binary data in the response body
2020-11-08 11:01:04	bie	but the clients aren't likely to do anything with it
2020-11-08 11:01:29	lieu	> 3.2.1 1x (INPUT)
2020-11-08 11:01:31	lieu	Status codes beginning with 1 are INPUT status codes, meaning:
2020-11-08 11:01:33	lieu	The requested resource accepts a line of textual user input. The <META> line is a prompt which should be displayed to the user. The same resource should then be requested again with the user's input included as a query component
2020-11-08 11:01:41	ew0k	I mean, gemini is two different things. There’s the protocol, which only supports GET calls — the only input to servers is the URL, a client certificate if provided and maybe a query string
2020-11-08 11:02:12	insep	just serve html over gemini /s
2020-11-08 11:02:31	ew0k	then there’s the gemtext markup language, which is the geminispace response to html
2020-11-08 11:02:51	lieu	yes, I don't think the `text/gemini` markup language is that interesting---basically a reskinned markdown 
2020-11-08 11:02:56	lieu	i am talking about the protocol
2020-11-08 11:03:40	ew0k	if you build a client that can handle html and javascript, or a web browser that can communicate through the gemini protocol, you can of course serve html files with javascript in them
2020-11-08 11:04:18	lieu	yes
2020-11-08 11:04:41	lieu	that's surely bad, right?
2020-11-08 11:04:43	ew0k	and you can build a client that eschews the gemini way of only making calls explicitly inititated by the user
2020-11-08 11:04:54	lieu	what do you mean by calls?
2020-11-08 11:05:12	ew0k	Get calls to the server
2020-11-08 11:05:42	ew0k	as in, fetching scripts, images, stylesheets etc without the user explicitly clicking those links
2020-11-08 11:06:17	lieu	oh i see what you mean
2020-11-08 11:06:30	lieu	so the current protocol makes one GET request and gets back the header/body
2020-11-08 11:06:46	lieu	and the client needs to make additional GET requests to get all the images/links/etc in the response body
2020-11-08 11:07:06	lieu	but you're saying we could theoretically circumvent that with a client
2020-11-08 11:07:13	ew0k	doing that (serving html+js, loading elements without user input, etc) and rendering that in the browser isn’t *bad*, but I would argue that http is better for it
2020-11-08 11:07:27	lieu	well that would defeat the purpose of gemini entirely
2020-11-08 11:07:31	ew0k	we could, definitely
2020-11-08 11:07:37	ew0k	exactly
2020-11-08 11:07:38	lieu	might as well just go back to HTTP then
2020-11-08 11:07:48	ew0k	yup :)
2020-11-08 11:07:51	lieu	yes so that's the main concern i have here
2020-11-08 11:07:59	lieu	or like i guess you could call it a main confusion
2020-11-08 11:08:55	lieu	so the gemini protocol allows serving of all types of files including arbitrary binary data / HTML/ videos etc
2020-11-08 11:09:17	lieu	so in fact it's not the PROTOCOL that is enforcing the "simplicity" of Gemini
2020-11-08 11:09:29	lieu	it is a compact made by all gemini CLIENT developers 
2020-11-08 11:09:48	lieu	the simplicity is not in the protocol but rather in the client
2020-11-08 11:09:53	lieu	do you see what i'm trying to get at
2020-11-08 11:09:57	ew0k	Pretty much spot on
2020-11-08 11:10:24	ew0k	it’s a philosophy and a community agreement, you could say
2020-11-08 11:10:34	lieu	yes but in that case aren't we barking up the wrong tree? shouldn't we just build simple HTTP clients?
2020-11-08 11:10:38	lieu	like lynx or whatever
2020-11-08 11:10:45	lieu	why do we need to have a new gemini protocol?
2020-11-08 11:11:13	bie	we don't *need* it, but
2020-11-08 11:11:17	bie	it's fun
2020-11-08 11:11:31	bie	and even simple http clients are pretty complex
2020-11-08 11:11:35	ew0k	Purists will argue that there isn’t really a ”sane” subset of http, and that setting a standard around that is impossible
2020-11-08 11:12:22	ew0k	but there’s also the history of where gemini comes from. I found that tomasino’s video on gopher helped me understand that: https://toobnix.org/videos/watch/1b9699da-3c41-48a8-8009-97b756e88a3d
2020-11-08 11:13:25	lieu	Couldn't find the page 
2020-11-08 11:13:28	lieu	looks like it 404d
2020-11-08 11:13:44	lieu	oh, never mind...
2020-11-08 11:13:48	lieu	the reason why is because
2020-11-08 11:13:58	lieu	this WeeChat thingy i'm using is not smart enough to click a link
2020-11-08 11:14:02	lieu	the entire link
2020-11-08 11:14:12	lieu	just stops at the line wrap
2020-11-08 11:14:19	lieu	What is this toobnix?
2020-11-08 11:18:32	lieu	And actually what is this whole tilde community? could someone explain it?
2020-11-08 11:39:48	lieu	also @ew0k I am browsing your gemlog, you seem like a cool person
2020-11-08 11:40:00	lieu	cool and smart :)
2020-11-08 12:08:20	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 12:12:29	@tomasino	i have a video on that too, lieu
2020-11-08 12:12:47	bie	just realized that i don't have to do any server rewrites to handle ipv4 and ipv6 at the same time
2020-11-08 12:12:50	bie	relayd to the rescue
2020-11-08 12:13:04	@tomasino	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK1mInnbfrU
2020-11-08 12:16:56	low-key	We call the http world the internet or the web?
2020-11-08 12:17:03	low-key	As opposed to gemini.
2020-11-08 12:17:08	low-key	I keep getting confused between the two.
2020-11-08 12:18:29	low-key	I want to see ew0k's gemlog too!
2020-11-08 12:19:03	ew0k	lieu: thank you :D
2020-11-08 12:19:51	ew0k	low-key: <3 gemini://tilde.team/~ew0k
2020-11-08 12:20:27	ew0k	(I’ve forgotten to update the index page with a link to the latest post, but you can find it on capcom or spacewalk)
2020-11-08 12:21:47	low-key	Bookmarked!
2020-11-08 12:22:28		superprower has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 12:22:30	ew0k	lieu: the tildeverse is probably better explained by someone else than me :D I just found it a couple of weeks ago
2020-11-08 12:22:59	low-key	tomasi's exploration videos are great starting points
2020-11-08 12:23:26	ew0k	but it’s sorr of what an internet community can be, if you take away the notion that a community equals a website/social network/forum
2020-11-08 12:24:45	▬▬▶	superprower has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 12:26:47	low-key	Where do y'all get the ASCII art for your capsules from?
2020-11-08 12:26:56	low-key	Mine could really use one.
2020-11-08 12:28:34	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 12:30:12	mieum	low-key: I've been using sloum's tdiv to turn images into braille "text" images
2020-11-08 12:30:50	mieum	there is a lot of potential in that tool
2020-11-08 12:32:56	low-key	Ohh
2020-11-08 12:56:29		helby has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-08 12:58:49	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 13:02:52	mieum	low-key: here's an example gemini://rawtext.club/~mieum/
2020-11-08 13:03:44	bie	mieum: nice! where can i find tdiv?
2020-11-08 13:05:42	mieum	bie: https://git.rawtext.club/sloum/tdiv
2020-11-08 13:05:52	bie	thanks
2020-11-08 13:05:57	mieum	np
2020-11-08 13:06:29	mieum	it works really nice with high contrast images, like pictures of text
2020-11-08 13:07:02	mieum	I like using it to make Chinese/Korean text-art headers
2020-11-08 13:07:19	mieum	gemini://namu.blue/~mieum/library/ddj/
2020-11-08 13:07:56	bie	wow yeah, that's something i've been wanting to do
2020-11-08 13:08:31	mieum	I believe bombadillo uses tdiv to "view" images if you tell it to
2020-11-08 13:08:42	mieum	anyway, have fun :)
2020-11-08 13:33:40	low-key	Thanks a lot!
2020-11-08 14:13:16	lieu	@tomasino: a video on what?
2020-11-08 14:13:56	lieu	mieum: I like the ASCII chinese art!
2020-11-08 14:14:21	low-key	on the tildeverse
2020-11-08 14:14:24	low-key	they did link to it above
2020-11-08 14:14:34	lieu	ah okay sorry didn't see that
2020-11-08 14:17:05	low-key	mieum: how do you get your chinese or japanese ascii art? You'll need images, won't you?
2020-11-08 14:18:38	rndusr	lieu: the tildeverse is a collection of public access unix systems: http://tildeverse.org
2020-11-08 14:19:04	rndusr	oh whoops
2020-11-08 14:19:15	rndusr	I was looking up in history
2020-11-08 14:19:24	★	rndusr smrt
2020-11-08 14:35:49	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 14:41:25		helby has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 14:45:10	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 15:23:39	lieu	How does CAPCOM/space whatever know when the files/gemini logs have been last updated?
2020-11-08 15:24:02	lieu	Spacewalk
2020-11-08 15:24:14	lieu	Somehow they know the last updated of the geminispace feeds
2020-11-08 15:24:32	lieu	Is it an xml file that everyone publishes? 
2020-11-08 15:24:58	kayw	CAPCOM does a daily check of all the atom.xml files that it has in it's feed list
2020-11-08 15:25:04	lieu	I see
2020-11-08 15:25:08	lieu	What about SpaceWalk?
2020-11-08 15:25:15	kayw	that i'm not sure about
2020-11-08 15:25:27	lieu	So I need to somehow build a SSG that will generate an atom.xml file from my .org files
2020-11-08 15:25:36	lieu	and also generate .gmi files from .org files and .md files
2020-11-08 15:25:50	kayw	but CAPCOM builds an index.gmi file that has links to all the new blog posts it's following
2020-11-08 15:26:13	lieu	what if I want to build a website that isn't a blog? that has evergreen content rather than chronological one?
2020-11-08 15:27:58	kayw	i'm not so sure about that one, sorry
2020-11-08 15:28:24	ddevault	added input to my gateway https://portal.drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/man.sh
2020-11-08 15:28:47	lieu	what does your portal do ddevault:
2020-11-08 15:28:49	lieu	?
2020-11-08 15:28:52	ddevault	http -> gemini
2020-11-08 15:29:01	low-key	whoa
2020-11-08 15:29:07	ddevault	https://portal.drewdevault.com/
2020-11-08 15:29:08	low-key	that's exactly what i didn't know i needed
2020-11-08 15:29:55	kayw	woah i love the color of the portal
2020-11-08 15:30:05	ddevault	...white?
2020-11-08 15:30:14	low-key	no wait, i was thinking about something that worked the other way around
2020-11-08 15:30:17	kayw	hm? it's dark for me
2020-11-08 15:30:21	low-key	it's dark for me too
2020-11-08 15:30:28	ddevault	oh, it respects prefers-color-scheme:dark
2020-11-08 15:30:36	kayw	oh that's sweet
2020-11-08 15:30:51	low-key	i was thinking a portal through which i could access http stuff on gemini
2020-11-08 15:33:07	lieu	wait do you mean like the
2020-11-08 15:33:09	lieu	mozz portal
2020-11-08 15:33:12	lieu	or whatever it's called
2020-11-08 15:41:43	low-key	oh, that's a thing?
2020-11-08 15:41:47	low-key	could you share a link?
2020-11-08 15:42:18	lieu	low-key: https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemini.circumlunar.space/software/
2020-11-08 15:42:36	ddevault	low-key is looking for the opposite
2020-11-08 15:42:44	ddevault	HTTP over Gemini
2020-11-08 15:42:57	low-key	yeah 
2020-11-08 15:43:01	ddevault	there's some for specific websites here gemini://gempaper.strangled.net/mirrorlist/
2020-11-08 15:43:55	low-key	thanks a lot ddevault 
2020-11-08 15:44:11	low-key	the why page for it covers all the reasons that i want something like this
2020-11-08 15:44:18	lieu	wait HTTP over Gemini? doesn't Gemini already serve HTTP?
2020-11-08 15:44:34	ddevault	what?
2020-11-08 15:44:38	lieu	doesn't Gemini already serve HTML?*
2020-11-08 15:44:47	ddevault	the goal is to proxy through to HTTP
2020-11-08 15:46:28	lieu	i'm a bit confused
2020-11-08 15:46:30	lieu	how does one do that?
2020-11-08 15:47:26	ddevault	nevermind
2020-11-08 15:47:30	lieu	i get the http -> gemini thing
2020-11-08 15:48:07	lieu	you send a HTTP request to a HTTP server which then acts as a Gemini client and sends you back the response from a Gemini server
2020-11-08 15:49:01	lieu	but i'm not sure how it would work the other way
2020-11-08 15:49:42	ew0k	And the other way around is when your gemini browser asks a gemini server for a http website, which the server fetches and then serves over gemini
2020-11-08 15:51:25	ddevault	https://github.com/mozilla/readability
2020-11-08 15:51:32	ddevault	this could probably be used to aid in the conversion to gemtext
2020-11-08 15:51:45	lieu	yes, but i was thinking that wouldn't work because GEmini clients are minimalist, right
2020-11-08 15:51:52	lieu	they wouldn't be able to render a lot of the payload body
2020-11-08 15:52:50	lieu	ddevault: btw I really love your blog
2020-11-08 15:53:03	ddevault	thanks lieu :)
2020-11-08 15:54:02	lieu	How do you decide what stuff to put on your HTTP blog and what stuff to put on Gemini?
2020-11-08 15:54:06	ddevault	arbitrarily
2020-11-08 15:54:09	lieu	i have already a HTTP website
2020-11-08 15:54:34	lieu	i want to start a Gemini space, but i don't know what I would put on it
2020-11-08 15:54:53	lieu	mirroring all my existing stuff would be a lazy and tedious thing to do 
2020-11-08 15:55:51	lieu	but on the other hand, if I write something good, then I want it to be on both websites
2020-11-08 15:56:03	lieu	it would be rather silly to have "exclusives"
2020-11-08 15:56:41	lieu	unless one were trying to encourage people to go to Gemini
2020-11-08 15:57:19	tane	well, I think it should be easy to transform gmi to html, at least easier than the other way around
2020-11-08 15:57:42	lieu	gmi to html is easy and hence http -> gemini proxies work 
2020-11-08 15:57:55	tane	doesn't that solve your problem then?
2020-11-08 15:57:59	lieu	html to gmi is difficult which is why i thought gemini -> http proxies woudl be difficult 
2020-11-08 15:58:08	low-key	i think they're talking about what it is i want
2020-11-08 15:58:18	low-key	i know it's not going to be very functional for a lot of websites
2020-11-08 15:58:18	lieu	low-key: yes
2020-11-08 15:58:39	low-key	and for the ones where it would work, the http site itself is clean and minimalist enough then
2020-11-08 15:58:48	low-key	i just like my gemini browsers a lot
2020-11-08 15:59:05	low-key	they are light and breezy and i'm looking for any excuse to stay on them rather than say firefox
2020-11-08 15:59:37	low-key	ddevault's suggestion of using the code that gives you reader view is pretty much how i mean for this portal thing to work
2020-11-08 15:59:59	lieu	low-key: which one are you using?
2020-11-08 16:00:00	low-key	cut out all the cruft and serve it to me on amfora
2020-11-08 16:00:03	low-key	amfora!
2020-11-08 16:00:05	low-key	it's beautiful!
2020-11-08 16:00:09	lieu	i am using bombadillo
2020-11-08 16:00:15	lieu	let me check out amfora
2020-11-08 16:00:18	low-key	please do
2020-11-08 16:00:23	lieu	does it have vim keybinds? that's by far the most important thing for me 
2020-11-08 16:00:35	lieu	i need to be able to navigate it with the keyboard only
2020-11-08 16:01:01	low-key	of course :)
2020-11-08 16:01:14	lieu	cool, do you have a link?
2020-11-08 16:01:18	low-key	https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora
2020-11-08 16:01:41	lieu	my firefox browser REALLY chugs nowadays
2020-11-08 16:01:49	lieu	it is so much nicer and faster using gemini /terminal stuff
2020-11-08 16:01:50	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 16:02:06	lieu	i moved from VSCode to Emacs for the same reason
2020-11-08 16:02:09	lieu	so i definitely get what you mean
2020-11-08 16:05:56	low-key	how was the emacs move?
2020-11-08 16:06:03	low-key	i've been meaning to try it out for ages now
2020-11-08 16:06:08	tane	lieu, you mentioned your blogpage some minutes ago, mind sharing? :)
2020-11-08 16:06:12	low-key	but i'm just too comfortable with nvim
2020-11-08 16:07:39	lieu	tane: sure, lieuzhenghong.com
2020-11-08 16:07:44	tane	thanks
2020-11-08 16:07:44	helby	I heard that emacs has also built in text editor ;)
2020-11-08 16:07:49	lieu	tane: https://lieuzhenghong.com
2020-11-08 16:08:05	lieu	i was using nvim before
2020-11-08 16:08:13	lieu	but like
2020-11-08 16:08:19	lieu	i didn't like that it had no batteries included
2020-11-08 16:08:29	lieu	also vim has like, what, 10 different plugin managers??
2020-11-08 16:08:34	lieu	so i switched to vscode
2020-11-08 16:09:21	low-key	well, you only have to use one of them
2020-11-08 16:09:32	lieu	yes but it was confusing
2020-11-08 16:09:43	low-key	and i don't mean to do anything other than text editing with my text editor
2020-11-08 16:09:46	lieu	and also things like autocomplete, tab size, etc etc
2020-11-08 16:09:51	lieu	line numbers
2020-11-08 16:09:57	lieu	i mean yes i know there's a .vimrc
2020-11-08 16:10:01	low-key	oh, if you're using emacs then there's a nice gemini client for it
2020-11-08 16:10:03	low-key	elpher
2020-11-08 16:10:03	lieu	but i just got tired of having to configure stuff
2020-11-08 16:10:11	lieu	i tried using elpher but there's a bug with it
2020-11-08 16:10:12	helby	vim is greate 30MB 'minimal' editor :D
2020-11-08 16:10:13	low-key	you only have to configure it once
2020-11-08 16:10:14	lieu	can't access anything
2020-11-08 16:10:25	lieu	also yeah amphora is nice
2020-11-08 16:10:29	lieu	much prettier than bombadillo
2020-11-08 16:10:34	low-key	i wrote my config back in 2017
2020-11-08 16:10:37	lieu	my normie girlfriend says it's just "text with colour"
2020-11-08 16:10:39	lieu	pfft
2020-11-08 16:10:41	lieu	philistine
2020-11-08 16:10:44	low-key	and i just copy it over to every new machine 
2020-11-08 16:11:15	helby	vi/vim keybinding in anything is addictive
2020-11-08 16:11:16	lieu	tane: let me know what you like and don't like, i always welcome feedback of all sorts
2020-11-08 16:11:20	lieu	oh yeah absolutely
2020-11-08 16:11:23	lieu	i can't live without
2020-11-08 16:11:28	lieu	even on firefox I use vimium
2020-11-08 16:11:44	lieu	do you guys host your own Gemini server?
2020-11-08 16:12:15	low-key	helby: touche
2020-11-08 16:12:19	lieu	am wondering if i should host my own Gemini server/use an existing one, and if so whther i should use a DO droplet or an actual device I own like a raspi
2020-11-08 16:12:30	low-key	i have a server but it's got nothing on it right now
2020-11-08 16:12:33	low-key	just the homepage
2020-11-08 16:12:50	low-key	a lot of the tildes let you host a gemini capsule
2020-11-08 16:12:53	low-key	so you could start there
2020-11-08 16:13:06	low-key	i already had a droplet so i figured i might as well get my money's worth
2020-11-08 16:13:46	helby	well but vps gives u more fun to fuckering with server and system ;)
2020-11-08 16:14:02	low-key	if they already have one then yeah
2020-11-08 16:14:12	low-key	else they're too expensive to just be running a gemini server
2020-11-08 16:14:18	lieu	the ironic thing is that i'm a webdev by profession
2020-11-08 16:14:24		nristen has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-08 16:14:29	helby	well, it can be then many things
2020-11-08 16:14:31	lieu	and i actually don't know how to start a server from scratch
2020-11-08 16:14:35	helby	like backup, mail server and so on
2020-11-08 16:14:35	lieu	like scratch scratch
2020-11-08 16:14:48	helby	some kind of 5$/month crap
2020-11-08 16:14:49	low-key	you can with gemini
2020-11-08 16:15:03	low-key	it's so simple that i needed nothing more than the server's man page
2020-11-08 16:15:47	lieu	what server man page?
2020-11-08 16:15:53	low-key	i am using gmnisrv
2020-11-08 16:15:58	low-key	as my gemini server
2020-11-08 16:16:13	low-key	its man page and config are all you need to host a gemini server from scratch
2020-11-08 16:16:43	lieu	i see
2020-11-08 16:16:48	lieu	any reason why gmnisrv
2020-11-08 16:17:07	kayw	the reason I like it is because it makes certs for you
2020-11-08 16:17:08	kayw	which is nice
2020-11-08 16:17:30	kayw	also I'm kinda strapped for RAM, and it uses ~1M
2020-11-08 16:17:37	lieu	why are you strapped for RAM
2020-11-08 16:18:00	kayw	I don't have a lot of memory
2020-11-08 16:18:16	lieu	what are you running your server on lol
2020-11-08 16:18:16	low-key	vps tend to be strapped for ram
2020-11-08 16:18:20	lieu	oh  see
2020-11-08 16:18:22	kayw	yeah
2020-11-08 16:18:24	lieu	actually
2020-11-08 16:18:28	kayw	my VPS only has ~2G of ram
2020-11-08 16:18:30	lieu	can someone explain how TLS works
2020-11-08 16:18:32	lieu	:/
2020-11-08 16:18:36	lieu	2G should be plenty no
2020-11-08 16:18:42	kayw	well, yeah
2020-11-08 16:18:49	low-key	mine only has 1G
2020-11-08 16:19:01	kayw	I just don't want to reach a point where several other services are competeing for RAM
2020-11-08 16:19:08	lieu	I want to build a game for Gemini
2020-11-08 16:19:15	lieu	using the user input field of Gemini
2020-11-08 16:19:58	lieu	somehow
2020-11-08 16:20:35	low-key	and to answer your question, i'm just using gmnisrv because it's the first i heard of
2020-11-08 16:20:40	low-key	and it was drew's
2020-11-08 16:20:44	helby	TLS is just something what can make simple things too complicated
2020-11-08 16:21:15	lieu	might have to pull out network textbook again...
2020-11-08 16:22:34	kayw	speaking of gmnisrv, it's been acting wierd lately... it doesn't output any logs until i stop the service
2020-11-08 16:24:55	helby	anyway my bombadillo is useless :/ most of the time it shows cert erros, not sure if it's related to using libressl instead open
2020-11-08 16:26:09	nytpu	lieu: the average creator shouldn't have to deal with tls as long as your server supports half-decent cgi, right?
2020-11-08 16:27:43	nytpu	i'm using jetforce for my work-in-progress text adventure and it even gives you tls client cert stuff so you just have to compare the client hash to detect a user
2020-11-08 16:28:23	kayw	very cool
2020-11-08 16:29:27	lieu	nytpu: i don't know what CGI is, either
2020-11-08 16:29:36	lieu	nytpu: is that user auth in Gemini?
2020-11-08 16:29:47	lieu	can it be done? user auth in Gemini? Persistent user auth?
2020-11-08 16:29:56	nytpu	tls client certs are user authentication, but you don't need to know details about tls to use them
2020-11-08 16:30:17	nytpu	luckily, because i don't know anything about tls either
2020-11-08 16:31:23	nytpu	cgi is used to generate pages dynamically, so the server passes you evironment variables with details about the request, you generate a page (however simple or complex you want) and print it out and the server serves that to the end user
2020-11-08 16:32:02	lieu	i see. Is this how GUS returns its search results?
2020-11-08 16:32:25	nytpu	yeah
2020-11-08 16:33:07	lieu	why is it a special technology actually
2020-11-08 16:33:13	lieu	why does it have a name
2020-11-08 16:33:21	nytpu	i'm trying to find a good resource that i found previously explaining cgi in gemini
2020-11-08 16:33:23	lieu	because say if i were to write a regular python http server
2020-11-08 16:33:30	lieu	i can handle a get request and return whatever i want 
2020-11-08 16:34:01	nytpu	oh yeah, if you're writing the server from scratch you can return whatever you want, but if you're using somebody else's server you'd usually just serve static pages
2020-11-08 16:34:08	lieu	ah okay 
2020-11-08 16:34:17	nytpu	but if that server supports cgi you can just make a script without having to write a full server yourself
2020-11-08 16:34:54	lieu	makes sense
2020-11-08 16:35:12	lieu	anyway, what do you know about user auth in gemini
2020-11-08 16:35:24	lieu	could we have things like persistent state?
2020-11-08 16:35:47	lieu	let me pull out the gemini spec...
2020-11-08 16:37:30	nytpu	yeah, there's tls client certificates that a user can enable to create a persistent state
2020-11-08 16:38:07	nytpu	and if your game needs a client certificate there's 60
2020-11-08 16:38:58	lieu	it looks like i have to read up what exactly is a TLS client certificate
2020-11-08 16:39:21	lieu	you could probably do basic user auth by sending 10 and 11 
2020-11-08 16:39:33	lieu	10 for username 11 for password
2020-11-08 16:39:38	nytpu	yeah
2020-11-08 16:39:49	lieu	but then what
2020-11-08 16:39:55	lieu	that wouldn't be persistent right
2020-11-08 16:40:01	nytpu	i can throw together an example cgi script showing how to use client certificates and do basic state if you want
2020-11-08 16:40:10	lieu	everytime the client made a new get request you would have to reauth
2020-11-08 16:40:19	nytpu	and yeah, client certificates are what you need to use to get persistent state
2020-11-08 16:40:31	lieu	that's veyr nice of you to offer, but I know neither CGI nor TLS
2020-11-08 16:40:43	nytpu	what language would you want to work in?
2020-11-08 16:41:00	nytpu	cgi can be any executable that reads environment variables and writes to stdout
2020-11-08 16:41:10	nytpu	usually i use bash or python, but you could use anything
2020-11-08 16:41:48	lieu	i am proficient in python
2020-11-08 16:42:20	nytpu	that's perfect then, i'm digging up an example script i made, give me a sec
2020-11-08 16:43:47	tane	lieu, interesting articles. When you're done with the path tracer in julia I'd be interested to read about your actual julia workflow :) I've found it disturbingly difficult to work with it due to the inability to redefine types in the Main namespace.
2020-11-08 16:48:23		lieu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-08 16:50:41	▬▬▶	lieu has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 16:51:23	lieu	tane: thanks for reading! unfortunately the project is on hiatus as Ross has just started his MMathPhys :( 
2020-11-08 16:51:29	lieu	What are you working on in Julia?
2020-11-08 16:52:08	tane	I was just playing around with it a bit, implementing some simple TSP heuristics. I wanted to evaluate its suitability for similar tasks
2020-11-08 16:53:47	tane	while some things are really simple to do, I'm not satisfied with the overall workflow. I think it suits my needs for prototyping, but that's it I guess :)
2020-11-08 16:54:31	lieu	damn, that's cool
2020-11-08 16:54:37	lieu	Julia came heavily recommended to me
2020-11-08 16:54:48	lieu	by a professor I was coauthing with
2020-11-08 16:55:00	lieu	recently I've been trying to learn Rust, though
2020-11-08 16:57:00	tane	that's nice. the pro of C++ is the availability of high quality libraries. for instance: in Julia there's the LightGraphs package, which is nicely done but relies on LP-solvers to solve minimum-cost flow problems, which sucks performance wise. So I'd better stick to C++ for anything non-trivial
2020-11-08 16:57:50	nytpu	i actually like rust as a language, but the support for architectures other than x86_64 and arm is dissapointing
2020-11-08 16:58:13	nytpu	so i'd recommend c++ as well
2020-11-08 16:58:27	tane	anyway, prototyping smaller algorithms is still possible. I guess I'd need to invest some time to get familiar with the DataFrames and other useful packages
2020-11-08 17:01:08	lieu	what other architectures do you need to support apart from x8664 and arm?
2020-11-08 17:09:02	nytpu	well i often write for a variety of architectures, and rust claims to be a systems programming language so i expect it to support many architectures
2020-11-08 17:16:55	lieu	nytpu: wow, cool, are you an embedded systems progrmamer?
2020-11-08 17:17:08	nytpu	well, not as a job but i do it for fun a lot
2020-11-08 17:20:01	jcowan	"ANSI" escape sequences: it's true that not all of them make sense in text/gemini, but some do, so it's not entirely a terminal model.
2020-11-08 17:20:09	nytpu	oh yeah here's my example cgi script: https://ttm.sh/deA.py
2020-11-08 17:21:04	lieu	oh hey
2020-11-08 17:21:07	lieu	that's really simple
2020-11-08 17:21:09	lieu	cool
2020-11-08 17:22:05	nytpu	and that's designed for the jetforce gemini server: https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce
2020-11-08 17:22:12	nytpu	but it should work anywhere with minimal modifications
2020-11-08 17:22:20	xfnw	oo cool
2020-11-08 17:29:22	lieu	nytpu: thanks a lot for the scripts
2020-11-08 17:29:26	lieu	going to bed now lads
2020-11-08 17:29:28	lieu	seeya
2020-11-08 17:29:30	ddevault	based on the earlier discussion about using readability to convert HTML pages into gemtext
2020-11-08 17:29:33	ddevault	I whipped this up:
2020-11-08 17:29:35	ddevault	gemini://drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/hn.py
2020-11-08 17:29:44	jcowan	for example, ESC [ 2 F justifies following text by inserting spaces, ESC [ 3 F justifies it with space between letters, and ESC [ 0 F turns justification off.  There's nothing terminal-ish about that.
2020-11-08 17:29:44	lieu	wow
2020-11-08 17:29:45	low-key	<3
2020-11-08 17:29:47	lieu	you work fast
2020-11-08 17:30:19	lieu	ddevault: I get a failed to connect to the server error
2020-11-08 17:30:22	ddevault	refresh
2020-11-08 17:30:26	ddevault	gmnisrv still has some bugs
2020-11-08 17:30:44	low-key	This is just absolutely fantastic!
2020-11-08 17:30:48	lieu	dude thats so cool
2020-11-08 17:30:49	lieu	awesome
2020-11-08 17:31:20	lieu	oh i just realised that 
2020-11-08 17:31:24	ddevault	https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gci-scripts/tree/master/hn.py
2020-11-08 17:31:26	ddevault	and https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gci-scripts/tree/master/web2gmi.js
2020-11-08 17:31:28	ddevault	do the work
2020-11-08 17:31:38	lieu	there is probably no way to look at the HN comments rather than the links
2020-11-08 17:31:46	ddevault	I might implement comments later, idrc
2020-11-08 17:31:56	ddevault	the lack of nested comments in gemtext would make it annoying to do well
2020-11-08 17:32:47	low-key	i see something like this being most useful for wikis
2020-11-08 17:32:59	low-key	to peruse them, that is
2020-11-08 17:33:10	low-key	to have arch wiki on gemini
2020-11-08 17:33:34	lieu	yeah or any sort of documentation
2020-11-08 17:33:44	lieu	browsing the Python documentation on firefox just chugs
2020-11-08 17:34:03	nihilazo	would be really cool to have the archwiki on gemini
2020-11-08 17:34:28	lieu	does readability preserve tables?
2020-11-08 17:34:37	nytpu	i believe so?
2020-11-08 17:35:30	low-key	i've been dreaming about arch wiki on gemini since i discovered gemini
2020-11-08 17:36:34	ddevault	low-key: gemini://drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/hn.py/view?https%3A//wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Sway
2020-11-08 17:36:36	ddevault	works pretty well
2020-11-08 17:36:50	ddevault	I might route this back to a general purpose html to gemtext portal, rather than HN specific
2020-11-08 17:36:59	ddevault	I went with HN because at first I thought the conversion would only really work on articles
2020-11-08 17:37:20	ddevault	so trying to do a built in nudge to avoid encouraging you to find broken pages
2020-11-08 17:38:01	low-key	i feel like this is a watershed moment for gemini
2020-11-08 17:38:06	lieu	ddevault: looks great
2020-11-08 17:38:06	low-key	or at least for what it can be for me
2020-11-08 17:38:15	low-key	thanks so much for this and all else you do ddevault!
2020-11-08 17:38:40	ddevault	^^
2020-11-08 17:39:22	lieu	ddevault: what happens if a page is not Readable?
2020-11-08 17:39:51	ddevault	it just breaks unelegantly
2020-11-08 17:40:17	low-key	i was wondering what the arch wiki experience would be like with gemini wanting each link on its line
2020-11-08 17:40:22	low-key	must admit it works really well
2020-11-08 17:41:02	low-key	is this something that the arch folk would be interested in?
2020-11-08 17:41:11	low-key	Maintaining a gemini mirror of the wiki?
2020-11-08 17:42:10	nihilazo	would be cool
2020-11-08 17:42:14	lieu	low-key: but isn't the point of this not to have a mirror
2020-11-08 17:42:33	lieu	so that you can have your canonical content but still read it over Gemini
2020-11-08 17:43:14	low-key	well, a mirror would still have them converting it over. You'd just get a neat gemini address
2020-11-08 17:43:38	nytpu	something like gemini wikipedia where it's still dynamic but instead of
2020-11-08 17:43:40	nytpu	gemini://drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/hn.py/view?https%3A//wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Sway
2020-11-08 17:43:52	nytpu	you get gemini://drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/archwiki.py/Sway
2020-11-08 17:44:00	ddevault	patches welcome to my gci-scripts repository
2020-11-08 17:44:00	low-key	yeah
2020-11-08 17:44:13	ddevault	to refactor this to /cgi-bin/web.sh?<url> and update hn.py accordingly
2020-11-08 17:44:23	ddevault	would also be nice to rewrite links in the converted articles to also go through the gemtext converter
2020-11-08 17:44:41	nihilazo	that reminded me that I need to get git send-email set up
2020-11-08 17:45:11	nytpu	do it, it's worth it
2020-11-08 17:45:16	lieu	ddevault: don't you already do it here?           output += `=> ${link.href} ${desc}\n`;
2020-11-08 17:45:27	ddevault	no, that just puts in the HTTP URL
2020-11-08 17:45:43	ddevault	it has to be rewritten to gemini://drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/hn.py/view? + link.href url encoded
2020-11-08 17:46:04	lieu	ah i see
2020-11-08 17:46:28	lieu	i'm surprised at how well readability works
2020-11-08 17:48:06	nytpu	i have it bound in qutebrowser and it seems to work pretty universally, which is a miracle considering how websites are now
2020-11-08 17:49:04	nihilazo	hmm, my git send-email isn't working. That sucks. Not sure how to fix it because it all seems good. Is there a channel here that i'd be better going to to ask about that?
2020-11-08 17:49:35	ddevault	https://git-send-email.io
2020-11-08 17:49:35	nytpu	#helpdesk? tilde.chat is pretty casual though, you can really just ask questions anywhere
2020-11-08 17:50:57	nihilazo	I followed the instructions on git-send-email and it's not working. Maybe there's something that needs to be configured for migadu that isn't in the config there
2020-11-08 17:51:11	ddevault	lemme see your git config
2020-11-08 17:51:56	lieu	 i just realised that i started using migadu because ddevault plugged it
2020-11-08 17:52:08	low-key	where did they write about it?
2020-11-08 17:52:20	nihilazo	sure, should I DM it? The git config (idk what the proper IRC term is for a DM)
2020-11-08 17:52:22	lieu	 let me see if i can find it
2020-11-08 17:52:50	ddevault	nihilazo: yeah
2020-11-08 17:52:53	ddevault	and we call it a PM
2020-11-08 17:52:53	lieu	low-key: https://drewdevault.com/2020/06/19/Mail-service-provider-recommendations.html
2020-11-08 17:53:30	low-key	i should really go through the entire blog
2020-11-08 17:53:34	low-key	thanks lieu :)
2020-11-08 17:53:48	ddevault	warning: not all of it is good
2020-11-08 17:53:49	lieu	not at all 
2020-11-08 17:54:03	lieu	I think he can be a bit extreme with his views about free software but in general i like his blog a lot
2020-11-08 17:54:37	lieu	i am looking at converting .org files to .gmi files right now
2020-11-08 17:55:29	nytpu	i find that my tastes in software seem to align with his scarily often
2020-11-08 17:56:09	nytpu	like i use a lot of the software he recommends, but i discovered it independently before i even knew he used it
2020-11-08 17:57:19	lieu	which ones?
2020-11-08 18:01:13	nytpu	not all of these a specifically software but: qutebrowser, migadu, git send-email, gemini, agpl
2020-11-08 18:01:46	lieu	why do you like gemini
2020-11-08 18:02:02	lieu	i like it a lot, but i cannot explain why, and i cannot explain it to my friends
2020-11-08 18:02:15	nytpu	i like the fact that it's dedicated to content
2020-11-08 18:02:16	lieu	why do i want to be part of gemini
2020-11-08 18:02:29	nytpu	like, the web is filled with sites that look pretty but don't have *anything* of value
2020-11-08 18:02:50	nytpu	when, since gemini doesn't let you do a lot with styling, you have to have good content if you want people to read your stuff
2020-11-08 18:03:02	nihilazo	tbh, the thing that attracted me to gemini was just that it isn't the web
2020-11-08 18:03:36	nytpu	well, that's a good draw
2020-11-08 18:03:38	nihilazo	because I have been slowly growing a hate for the web, especially since I bought a tablet that is a modern device from less than 6 months ago and web browsers still somehow run slow on it
2020-11-08 18:03:54	alex11	most websites don't look pretty :/
2020-11-08 18:04:01	alex11	between the autoplaying videos and stuff
2020-11-08 18:04:05	lieu	you know what we could do with the proxy ddvefault just built
2020-11-08 18:04:07	nihilazo	everything else runs fine, but websites can still somehow run slow, and I've always hated "web apps" and especially developing stuff for the web
2020-11-08 18:04:10	lieu	we could do DDG on it  kek
2020-11-08 18:04:37	nytpu	https://tilde.zone/web/statuses/105164057317850613
2020-11-08 18:04:43	nytpu	just me every day
2020-11-08 18:05:19	nytpu	i used to have dozens of videos open in mpv at any given time, but a single video open in a browser and all of a sudden my fans go up to mach 10
2020-11-08 18:05:52	low-key	his recommendations have sure been spot on for me
2020-11-08 18:05:55	nihilazo	I open all my videos in mpv
2020-11-08 18:06:04	lieu	what is mpv?
2020-11-08 18:06:15	nihilazo	think vlc but not bad
2020-11-08 18:06:20	alex11	and not slow
2020-11-08 18:06:25	nihilazo	it's just a desktop video player
2020-11-08 18:06:27	tane	lieu, the athlete sister of mplayer
2020-11-08 18:06:29	alex11	not sure why people like vlc when mpv exists
2020-11-08 18:06:30	ddevault	gemini://drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/hn.py/view?https%3A//git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gci-scripts/tree/master/hn.py
2020-11-08 18:06:36	ddevault	this readability converter works alarmingly well
2020-11-08 18:06:38	nytpu	the umpv script is a lifesaver, now i only have one or two mpv instances open
2020-11-08 18:06:54	nytpu	https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/blob/master/TOOLS/umpv
2020-11-08 18:08:08	lieu	ddevault: is there a reason why you chose to use Alpine over Arch for your new workstation?
2020-11-08 18:08:13	ddevault	arch sucks
2020-11-08 18:08:17	ddevault	alpine sucks a lot less
2020-11-08 18:08:23	lieu	why does arch suck?
2020-11-08 18:08:26	ddevault	bloat
2020-11-08 18:08:28	ddevault	unstable
2020-11-08 18:08:32	lieu	bloat????
2020-11-08 18:08:33	ddevault	gnu
2020-11-08 18:08:37	ddevault	systemd
2020-11-08 18:08:50	lieu	i thought arch was meant to be like the no-batteries-included distro
2020-11-08 18:08:55	nytpu	i've never had stability issues but systemd was the number one cause of problems on my arch system
2020-11-08 18:08:58	ddevault	arch includes a shitload of batteries
2020-11-08 18:09:00	nytpu	but i went with artix
2020-11-08 18:09:01	lieu	fwiw i'm a normie using ubuntu
2020-11-08 18:09:01	nihilazo	I'm on arch rn because it works for me and I haven't felt the need to install anything else
2020-11-08 18:09:20	ddevault	my / partition on alpine is 9.7G
2020-11-08 18:09:22	lieu	well, pop!OS actually
2020-11-08 18:09:26	ddevault	I have 136 packages installed
2020-11-08 18:09:38	nihilazo	I tried installing void, my network card didn't work and my terminal emulator wasn't available in repos, X11 wouldn't start properly
2020-11-08 18:09:41	ddevault	(texlive, firefox, chromium, and qt are probably the biggest ones)
2020-11-08 18:09:44	low-key	i've been arch for a while now and never had any issues but my usage tends to be very conservative
2020-11-08 18:09:52	nihilazo	(I don't want to be using X but I have a shit GPU)
2020-11-08 18:09:53	ddevault	(and font-noto-cjk)
2020-11-08 18:10:03	lieu	will alpine linux work with laptops
2020-11-08 18:10:06	ddevault	alpine does what I want, and only what I want
2020-11-08 18:10:14	nihilazo	I want to replace my GPU with something wayland friendly but idk what to get
2020-11-08 18:10:16	ddevault	sure, I use it on my laptops
2020-11-08 18:10:16	nihilazo	certainly not nvidia
2020-11-08 18:10:24	lieu	no driver issues
2020-11-08 18:10:26	lieu	?
2020-11-08 18:10:28	low-key	nytpu: do you use qutebrowser exclusively?
2020-11-08 18:10:30	insep	ddevault: apk-tools can be a bit tricky sometimes though
2020-11-08 18:10:32	nihilazo	but idk what else but nvidia I should use
2020-11-08 18:10:34	ddevault	I dunno, I only use thinkpads
2020-11-08 18:10:34	nytpu	lowkey: yeah
2020-11-08 18:10:40	ddevault	which are well supported by everything
2020-11-08 18:10:48	lieu	is qutebrowser slow?
2020-11-08 18:10:48	insep	and i wouldn't say alpine is stable, at least not on edge
2020-11-08 18:10:55	lieu	the vim keybinds are great 
2020-11-08 18:10:58	nihilazo	like, idk what cards have the best support for cheap re: wayland and stuff
2020-11-08 18:10:59	ddevault	it's more stable than arch
2020-11-08 18:11:01	nytpu	no, i wouldn't say so
2020-11-08 18:11:04	ddevault	and yes, I run !edge in production
2020-11-08 18:11:07	insep	stuff breaks often on edge, although now it's not as often than before
2020-11-08 18:11:12	lieu	but not sure whether i should move from ffox with vimium --> qutebrowser
2020-11-08 18:11:16	ddevault	and in production alpine has never broken on me
2020-11-08 18:11:19	nytpu	it's python, but the actual browser stuff is qtwebengine so it's still fast
2020-11-08 18:11:21	nihilazo	I like qutebrowser
2020-11-08 18:11:28	ddevault	qute is buggy on alpine
2020-11-08 18:11:30	ddevault	but I use it anyway, fuck it
2020-11-08 18:12:08	tane	so, the answer to a slow firefox is a browser written in python?
2020-11-08 18:12:08	nytpu	the main downside is it's based off of chromium, but it's not like there's any other good options out there anyways
2020-11-08 18:12:18	ddevault	qutebrowser is not the answer to a slow firefox
2020-11-08 18:12:25	lieu	python absolutely chugs for me nowadays ... don't know why
2020-11-08 18:12:28	lieu	could be that i am pushing 4K
2020-11-08 18:12:30	ddevault	qutebrowser is the answer to wanting a customizable browser with a native keyboard driven interface
2020-11-08 18:12:41	lieu	ddevault: how is alpine with hidpi?
2020-11-08 18:12:48	ddevault	I just use sway, and it works fine
2020-11-08 18:12:53	ddevault	really has nothing to do with your distro
2020-11-08 18:13:14	nihilazo	I use sway on my tablet and it's great
2020-11-08 18:13:18	nihilazo	unfortunately can't use it on my desktop
2020-11-08 18:13:19	kayw	sway++
2020-11-08 18:13:29	lieu	your tablet runs linux?
2020-11-08 18:13:32	nihilazo	because past me had no idea what the fuck he was doing and bought an nvidia gpu
2020-11-08 18:13:38	nihilazo	yeah my tablet is running arch
2020-11-08 18:13:43	lieu	that's badass
2020-11-08 18:13:47	lieu	how'd you do that 
2020-11-08 18:13:55	lieu	oh man
2020-11-08 18:13:56	nihilazo	it's the pinetab so it was designed as a linux tablet
2020-11-08 18:13:59	nihilazo	I just installed arch on it
2020-11-08 18:14:05	lieu	i might just wipe my partition and install alpine
2020-11-08 18:14:05	low-key	wow
2020-11-08 18:14:10	lieu	would be a good learning experience
2020-11-08 18:14:15	lieu	that is cool
2020-11-08 18:14:16	lieu	let me google it
2020-11-08 18:14:22	ddevault	should have put pmOS on it
2020-11-08 18:14:42	lieu	is it difficult to install alpine 
2020-11-08 18:14:45	ddevault	no
2020-11-08 18:14:53	ddevault	it is easier than arch
2020-11-08 18:14:56	ericonr	tane: qutebrowser uses qt5 webengine
2020-11-08 18:15:01	ericonr	it's disguised chromium
2020-11-08 18:15:11	tane	heh, ok
2020-11-08 18:15:22	lieu	has anyone heard on nixOS
2020-11-08 18:15:25	low-key	i have somehow always been intimidated by alpine
2020-11-08 18:15:28	nihilazo	I might try pmOS but the thing with arch for me is I have never felt the need to move to something else
2020-11-08 18:15:30	lieu	herad of*
2020-11-08 18:15:31	nihilazo	it works for me
2020-11-08 18:15:32	nytpu	lieu: heard of it, but know nothign about it
2020-11-08 18:15:40	nytpu	s/nothign/nothing/
2020-11-08 18:15:53	ericonr	I feel the obligation to plug void
2020-11-08 18:15:55	nihilazo	like, I could install pmOS but I don't see why I would when arch works
2020-11-08 18:15:56	ddevault	nixos is the operating system of choice for sociopaths
2020-11-08 18:16:00	nihilazo	void was a broken mess for me
2020-11-08 18:16:07	ddevault	void is a broken mess
2020-11-08 18:16:12	ddevault	but at least it's not manjaro
2020-11-08 18:16:19	tane	manjaro works fine :P
2020-11-08 18:16:19	ericonr	eh, works plenty well for me
2020-11-08 18:16:21	lieu	"declarative system configuration model" sounds good
2020-11-08 18:16:22	ddevault	xbps sucks
2020-11-08 18:16:39	ericonr	parts of it do, I don't disagree
2020-11-08 18:16:45	low-key	how much of a difference does alpine's alternative C library make?
2020-11-08 18:16:57	lieu	why is nixos the OS of choice for sociopaths? lmao
2020-11-08 18:17:08	ddevault	musl libc is very good
2020-11-08 18:17:08	low-key	that's what made me think it's not for people who don't know what that means to begin with
2020-11-08 18:17:12	ericonr	low-key: musl can be sucky if you need proprietary software
2020-11-08 18:17:20	ddevault	why the fuck do you need proprietary software
2020-11-08 18:17:25	ericonr	and seccomp using software won't always be tested on musl
2020-11-08 18:17:27	ddevault	regarding musl gemini://drewdevault.com/2020/09/25/A-story-of-two-libcs.gmi
2020-11-08 18:17:30	ericonr	so you get stupid errors
2020-11-08 18:18:04	low-key	and busybox is the coreutils replacement, right?
2020-11-08 18:18:20	low-key	as far as i know, those are the only major changes coming from arch? apart from finally leaving systemd behind
2020-11-08 18:18:22	nihilazo	musl is cool but I heard that it breaks things, also i need proprietary software for a lot of things
2020-11-08 18:18:37	ddevault	no one "needs" proprietary software
2020-11-08 18:18:37	nihilazo	mostly because I have to operate within a college that forces microsoft shit down my throat
2020-11-08 18:18:41	ddevault	get your shit together bro
2020-11-08 18:18:48	lieu	yeah proprietary software sometimes is a necessary evil
2020-11-08 18:18:57	nihilazo	if I didn't have it I'd be kicked out of my fuckin college
2020-11-08 18:18:58	lieu	if you work with normies
2020-11-08 18:19:00	ericonr	ddevault: fwiw
2020-11-08 18:19:13	lieu	i mean if you're in this linux bubble it's very easy 
2020-11-08 18:19:26	nihilazo	must be a nice life to be able to live with no proprietary software, but if you work with anybody outside the free software space you are often forced into it
2020-11-08 18:19:29	ericonr	I kinda disagree with that post, since glibc's locale support has made it actually internationalized
2020-11-08 18:19:39	ddevault	any locale other than UTF-8 is braindead
2020-11-08 18:19:41	ddevault	it's a feature, not a bug
2020-11-08 18:19:46	nihilazo	I'd agree with that actually
2020-11-08 18:19:50	nihilazo	fuck anything except UTF-8
2020-11-08 18:19:57	nihilazo	has no reason to exist in 2020
2020-11-08 18:20:01	lieu	no love for UTF-16?
2020-11-08 18:20:12	ddevault	no
2020-11-08 18:20:15	ddevault	no love for UTF-16.
2020-11-08 18:20:17	ehmry	yea, localization makes libc's hard to maintain
2020-11-08 18:20:26	ericonr	UTF-8 = great; but glibc's strong focus in internalization has made it actually provide that support
2020-11-08 18:20:31	ericonr	I don't care that the design sucks
2020-11-08 18:20:36	ericonr	at least it's there
2020-11-08 18:20:41	nytpu	locales in c are such a shitshow no matter what libc though
2020-11-08 18:20:41	ddevault	that's bloody stupid
2020-11-08 18:20:44	low-key	haha, the way the tale of two libc post ended :P
2020-11-08 18:20:47	ddevault	you need to justify the feature before you go implementing it
2020-11-08 18:20:53	nihilazo	if I could use like, 9front or some shit as my daily OS I would
2020-11-08 18:20:54	ddevault	and !UTF-8 support is no longer justifiable
2020-11-08 18:21:01	nihilazo	if I could use a systemd-free distro with musl I would
2020-11-08 18:21:15	ericonr	well you can always get yourself a glibc chroot
2020-11-08 18:21:16	nihilazo	but I need to exist in the world where nvidia GPUs exist and my college makes me install microsoft shit
2020-11-08 18:21:19	▬▬▶	insep_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 18:21:22	ericonr	that's what I also do
2020-11-08 18:21:31	nihilazo	and my wireless card needs a blob driver, and I want to play video games
2020-11-08 18:21:31	nytpu	i'm doing fine without systemd despite the shit i have to use for university too
2020-11-08 18:21:37	ddevault	you're paying for college
2020-11-08 18:21:40	ddevault	make a fucking stand, coward
2020-11-08 18:21:51	lieu	lol
2020-11-08 18:21:54	nihilazo	if I made a stand I'd get kicked out
2020-11-08 18:21:59	ericonr	nihilazo: blob drivers don't care about your libc
2020-11-08 18:21:59	ddevault	coward
2020-11-08 18:22:03	lieu	what's wrong with systemd
2020-11-08 18:22:07	ddevault	what isn't wrong with systemd
2020-11-08 18:22:09	nihilazo	I literally would be unable to visit over 50% of my lessons without microsoft stuff
2020-11-08 18:22:23	nytpu	bloat and eating up all sorts of other shit that used to be standalone
2020-11-08 18:22:27	ehmry	locales are even worse then its seems, because post-xlocale locale is something thread specific
2020-11-08 18:22:27	ddevault	if all you're learning about is proprietary microsoft bullshit then what are you actually getting out of it
2020-11-08 18:22:29	lieu	nihilazo: what sort of microsoft stuff do you need to use?
2020-11-08 18:22:29	alex11	systemd is polarizing, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle
2020-11-08 18:22:37	lieu	like Teams?
2020-11-08 18:22:42	lieu	or outlook365?
2020-11-08 18:22:50	nihilazo	lieu: teams, along with the entire office 365 suite
2020-11-08 18:22:51	nytpu	and the dev is the shittiest foss developer as of now
2020-11-08 18:23:02	lieu	nihilazo: my condolences
2020-11-08 18:23:06	nihilazo	because I can't just make my notes in a text file like a human fucking being
2020-11-08 18:23:11	nihilazo	I have to maek them in onenote
2020-11-08 18:23:14	nihilazo	because the college says so
2020-11-08 18:23:15	ddevault	refuse
2020-11-08 18:23:18	ddevault	explain why
2020-11-08 18:23:22	ddevault	coward
2020-11-08 18:23:23	tane	lol..
2020-11-08 18:23:28	nihilazo	rn I make my notes in a text file then copy them when I need to
2020-11-08 18:23:42	nihilazo	but if I refused I'd just be kicked out. Like, there is no stand I can make here
2020-11-08 18:23:44	ddevault	their obscene requirements are inhibiting your learning ability
2020-11-08 18:23:47	lieu	i cant believe that policy is actually a thing
2020-11-08 18:23:53	nihilazo	the college is literally sponsored by microsoft
2020-11-08 18:23:58		insep_ has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-08 18:23:59	ddevault	so drop out
2020-11-08 18:23:59	lieu	"students must make their notes in onenote"
2020-11-08 18:24:01	lieu	lol
2020-11-08 18:24:02	nytpu	is that a place you want to be getting your education
2020-11-08 18:24:03	ddevault	not like you're learning anyting useful anyway
2020-11-08 18:24:05	nihilazo	they have a "microsoft concept suite" where everybody learns shit on surface tablets
2020-11-08 18:24:06	lieu	what college do you go to
2020-11-08 18:24:10	lieu	wait wtf
2020-11-08 18:24:12	lieu	???
2020-11-08 18:24:14	lieu	this can't be real
2020-11-08 18:24:20	lieu	this reads like a dystopian SF
2020-11-08 18:24:20	nihilazo	yeah they're fucking paid off by microsoft
2020-11-08 18:24:25	nihilazo	their IT shit is done on tablets
2020-11-08 18:24:27	nytpu	seriously, getting kicked out of there seems like they're doing you a favor
2020-11-08 18:24:29	nihilazo	like jesus christ
2020-11-08 18:24:32	lieu	lmaoo
2020-11-08 18:24:36	lieu	what are you studying in college
2020-11-08 18:24:38	lieu	what college is this
2020-11-08 18:24:39	nihilazo	there's nowhere else for me to go around here, it's the only college for ages
2020-11-08 18:24:41	lieu	what's your major
2020-11-08 18:24:48	insep	nihilazo: if you really need proprietary stuff on х86_64, use gcompat
2020-11-08 18:24:50	ddevault	you don't need a degree to into tech
2020-11-08 18:24:56	nihilazo	this is also UK college if I'm confusing people
2020-11-08 18:25:10	nihilazo	which is after HS but before degree
2020-11-08 18:25:12	nihilazo	and mandatoruy
2020-11-08 18:25:16	lieu	this is wild
2020-11-08 18:25:19	nihilazo	s/mandatoruy/mandatory
2020-11-08 18:25:20	lieu	you mean sixth form, right
2020-11-08 18:25:22	nihilazo	ye
2020-11-08 18:25:24	lieu	i see
2020-11-08 18:25:25	ddevault	if it's mandatory you can't get kicked out
2020-11-08 18:25:36	lieu	i studied in the UK fwiw
2020-11-08 18:25:37	tane	found the loop hole..
2020-11-08 18:25:49	nytpu	ddevault: seriously, i
2020-11-08 18:26:12	lieu	but seriously lmao @ "microsoft concept suite"
2020-11-08 18:26:13	nytpu	'm considering just dropping out and making some sort of shitty web dashboard, selling it for millions, and then doing my own thing
2020-11-08 18:26:29	tane	I'd not recommend it
2020-11-08 18:26:31	nytpu	how the fuck did i manage to hit enter in the middle of that message?
2020-11-08 18:26:37	lieu	nytpu: you're in college too?
2020-11-08 18:26:45	alex11	because ' and enter are right next to each other
2020-11-08 18:26:56	ddevault	reminds me of a classic bash.org quote
2020-11-08 18:27:07	ddevault	http://bash.org/?670375
2020-11-08 18:27:11	ddevault	bash.org over gemini when
2020-11-08 18:27:12	nihilazo	if I could like, tell the college I wasn't using microsoft stuff, I would. But I can't bc literally half my lessons are exclusively on teams
2020-11-08 18:27:22	ddevault	https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/bash-scraper
2020-11-08 18:27:25	alex11	bash.org isn't funny to me, a lot of it is forced
2020-11-08 18:27:28	alex11	some gems, of coursew
2020-11-08 18:27:29	alex11	course
2020-11-08 18:27:40	nihilazo	bash.org over gemini when you make it, you're the guy who keeps telling people to submit patches themself instead of asking for features :P
2020-11-08 18:28:13	ddevault	I think my 2-3 visits to bash.org per year are not yet enough motivation to go through with that lol
2020-11-08 18:28:56	nihilazo	fair
2020-11-08 18:29:15	alex11	it's supposed to be 'funny, spontaneous conversations that emerged' not 'people being genuinely shitty on irc'
2020-11-08 18:29:20	nihilazo	now I'm wondering what actually would happen if I refused to use teams
2020-11-08 18:29:24	ddevault	it has both, alex11 
2020-11-08 18:29:28	alex11	sadly
2020-11-08 18:29:31	ddevault	look in the mirror, you've got a chip on your shoulder
2020-11-08 18:29:38	lieu	eh
2020-11-08 18:29:44	lieu	i think you should just finish your sixth form
2020-11-08 18:29:48	tane	indeed
2020-11-08 18:29:49	lieu	i think shit just gets better in uni
2020-11-08 18:30:03	lieu	no stupid requirements
2020-11-08 18:30:13	ericonr	depends on the uni
2020-11-08 18:30:19	lieu	i wrote all my essays in latex
2020-11-08 18:30:23	lieu	nobody gave a shit
2020-11-08 18:30:35	lieu	actually they liked that my essays were in latex fwiw
2020-11-08 18:30:38	ericonr	"please deliver the simulink file you used"
2020-11-08 18:31:22	nihilazo	I have no idea what i want to do after sixth form
2020-11-08 18:31:36	nihilazo	because I don't want to work in tech in $CURRENT_YEAR
2020-11-08 18:31:46	lieu	if you're on this board you probably like tech right
2020-11-08 18:31:49	lieu	CS is a good bet
2020-11-08 18:31:52	lieu	you don't have to be a webdev
2020-11-08 18:31:57	lieu	you can do embedded
2020-11-08 18:32:01	lieu	or low-level stuff
2020-11-08 18:32:05	nihilazo	I do like tech, but I do not want to study it or work in it because shit's boring
2020-11-08 18:32:16	nihilazo	my approach to tech is to fuck around with the random stuff I think is cool
2020-11-08 18:32:16	lieu	nah CS isn't boring
2020-11-08 18:32:27	ericonr	internet of shit :)
2020-11-08 18:32:43	nihilazo	I picked CS for sixth form and it was garbage, dropped it super quick, nothing I study now is nything to do with tech
2020-11-08 18:32:56	nihilazo	honestly I see myself probably ending up avoiding tech really. Because 99% of it sucks
2020-11-08 18:33:05	nihilazo	and the 1% of it that doesn't suck still kinda sucks
2020-11-08 18:33:07	lieu	my friends are in HFT firms doing very performance critical stuff in cpp
2020-11-08 18:33:15	lieu	very interesting and well paid work
2020-11-08 18:33:25	lieu	kind of useless work if you ask me
2020-11-08 18:33:30	lieu	but w/e
2020-11-08 18:33:37	ericonr	lol very interesting
2020-11-08 18:33:45	lieu	what are you doing now in sixth form?
2020-11-08 18:33:47	ericonr	it's as interesting as cryptocurrency
2020-11-08 18:33:50	lieu	which A levels?
2020-11-08 18:34:00	ericonr	"let's throw brute force into this useless thing"
2020-11-08 18:34:13	nihilazo	sociology, politics, and philosophy A level
2020-11-08 18:34:14	tane	ericonr, have you worked the sector?
2020-11-08 18:34:22	nihilazo	aka three subjects with fuck all career potential
2020-11-08 18:34:24	lieu	huh
2020-11-08 18:34:27	lieu	do PPE then
2020-11-08 18:34:29	lieu	that's what I did
2020-11-08 18:34:34	ericonr	tane: which one? IoT or HFT?
2020-11-08 18:34:36	nihilazo	PPE?
2020-11-08 18:34:41	tane	ericonr, HFT
2020-11-08 18:34:48	ericonr	nope
2020-11-08 18:34:54	ddevault	please don't get into HFT
2020-11-08 18:35:00	ddevault	do something which improves society
2020-11-08 18:35:06	lieu	https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/philosophy-politics-and-economics
2020-11-08 18:35:08	tane	lol
2020-11-08 18:35:10	ericonr	burn down trade centers :)
2020-11-08 18:35:15	lieu	yeah i agree
2020-11-08 18:35:19	lieu	HFT is useless
2020-11-08 18:35:34	ddevault	it would be better to study logistics, planning, chemistry, etc, with the aim of burning down trade centers :)
2020-11-08 18:36:00	lieu	nihilazo: PPE is philo/politics/econs so you'd have 2 of the 3
2020-11-08 18:36:01	tane	well, most fields are double-edged swords
2020-11-08 18:36:34	lieu	if you enjoy the philo/pol that you do then it's a good shout IMO
2020-11-08 18:36:42	nihilazo	sociology is kinda insane as a subject at A level in a way
2020-11-08 18:36:56	nihilazo	because they teach marx and stuff
2020-11-08 18:37:07	tane	which is good, so you know why it's wrong
2020-11-08 18:37:22	nihilazo	which is kinda weird considering how much other areas are being cracked down on for "anti-capitalist content" or whatever
2020-11-08 18:37:47	lieu	what does that even mean
2020-11-08 18:37:54	lieu	what's being cracked down for anti-capitalist content
2020-11-08 18:38:02	nihilazo	idk, but the government tried to ban teaching from anti-capitalist sources
2020-11-08 18:38:08	lieu	????
2020-11-08 18:38:11	nihilazo	I think it was only in certain subjects
2020-11-08 18:38:16	lieu	that seems sus
2020-11-08 18:38:20	ericonr	that's usually phrased in a different way
2020-11-08 18:38:34	helby	now somebody maybe can tell me why I get cert error in bombadillo for almost any gemini site ... 
2020-11-08 18:38:37	ericonr	no one says "we are only teaching orthodox economics"
2020-11-08 18:39:00	nihilazo	oh apparently it's only the case in like one subject nobody cares about
2020-11-08 18:39:14	ericonr	you just look, see a bunch of old men in suits patting themselves in the back, and assume they all lick boots
2020-11-08 18:39:20	nihilazo	but part of the report was not to teach any content that came from anti-capitalist sources
2020-11-08 18:39:22	helby	no idea how all that tls nonsense works, so maybe libressl can be an issue?
2020-11-08 18:39:54		lieu has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-08 18:39:58	nihilazo	I was kinda interested in doing economics but I heard that A level econ is shit
2020-11-08 18:40:04	nihilazo	anyways, this is gemini
2020-11-08 18:41:28	alex11	this is spartaaaaaaaa
2020-11-08 18:49:38	nihilazo	now I'm thinking about how i'm in this weird place where i love tech but also hate tech
2020-11-08 18:50:22	tane	nihilazo, https://afreshcup.com/home/2020/10/30/double-shot-2717
2020-11-08 18:52:29	nihilazo	idk, I guess I mostly agree with that, I think I like tech but hate capitalism and unfortunately tech and capitalism are very hard to seperate
2020-11-08 18:55:11	ericonr	join a hacker gang or somethign
2020-11-08 18:55:30	ddevault	for me it's just 100% hate
2020-11-08 18:56:21	ericonr	nihilazo: anyway, if you're lucky, you can work in tech without hating yourself
2020-11-08 18:56:39	ericonr	and even work towards goals you agree with
2020-11-08 18:56:44	nihilazo	I doubt it tbh
2020-11-08 18:56:58	ericonr	why"
2020-11-08 18:57:10	ericonr	?
2020-11-08 18:57:12	nihilazo	I think I'd also probably hate the everyday of working in tech. If I was writing software I'd have to write stuff that was actually semi decent
2020-11-08 18:57:15	nihilazo	which I can't do
2020-11-08 18:57:49	ericonr	that's indeed a different issue
2020-11-08 18:58:01	ericonr	I'd say "you can't do now"
2020-11-08 18:59:27	nihilazo	nah, I don't think I'd ever be able to do it
2020-11-08 18:59:42	nihilazo	I actually totally suck at programming, my programs are just a series of bugs help together with tape
2020-11-08 18:59:42	thefunkyspaw	nihilazo: Developing software in a professional setting is something you'll get better at. For what its worth, I think you should go into HFT. It's a really interesting field.
2020-11-08 18:59:53	tane	:D
2020-11-08 19:00:01	alex11	hft?
2020-11-08 19:00:06	ddevault	please do not go into HFT
2020-11-08 19:00:08	thefunkyspaw	high frequency trading
2020-11-08 19:00:11	ddevault	do something which improves society
2020-11-08 19:00:32	thefunkyspaw	The efficient allocation of capital improves society
2020-11-08 19:00:36	ericonr	or brings any value whatsoever :P
2020-11-08 19:00:41	ericonr	hm
2020-11-08 19:00:44	nihilazo	capital never improves society, fuck it
2020-11-08 19:00:47	ericonr	lol
2020-11-08 19:00:55	ddevault	is that how you sleep at night, thefunkyspaw
2020-11-08 19:00:56	ericonr	this is probably offtopic here
2020-11-08 19:01:01	ddevault	I also have to lie to myself sometimes to fall asleep
2020-11-08 19:01:34	nihilazo	I think I'd hate myself a lot working in HFT
2020-11-08 19:02:09	ericonr	yeah I wouldn't last a single day
2020-11-08 19:02:34	ericonr	if I had push access to prod I'd just add sleep calls all over the place
2020-11-08 19:02:41	thefunkyspaw	We should remember that nihilazo is in the UK, so a lot of constructive professions don't pay competitive rates
2020-11-08 19:02:50	thefunkyspaw	,time nihilazo
2020-11-08 19:02:51	tildebot	[Time] Unknown location 'nihilazo'
2020-11-08 19:03:02	nihilazo	it is 19:00 here but idk why that matters
2020-11-08 19:03:04	thefunkyspaw	eh, I'm going on memory, I could be wrong
2020-11-08 19:03:04	nihilazo	but yes UK
2020-11-08 19:03:09	thefunkyspaw	thanks
2020-11-08 19:03:35	thefunkyspaw	Like, I'm an engineer that works on hard assets, but if I lived in the UK I would have pursued a different profession
2020-11-08 19:05:08	nihilazo	I have no idea what profession I want to persue. I'm just studying the stuff I find interesting and hoping at some point I can get a job
2020-11-08 19:05:32	nihilazo	but I don't want to end up in a job that isn't useful for society and I don't see many useful for society jobs I could get
2020-11-08 19:06:39	ericonr	medicine is always there
2020-11-08 19:07:08	ericonr	although I don't know how that is in the UK
2020-11-08 19:07:12	ericonr	here it's plenty hard
2020-11-08 19:07:13	thefunkyspaw	I'm going to sound like my dad, and I kind of want to punch myself in the face, but your values will probably change between 20 years of age and 30 years of age, so don't let them pidgeonhole you.
2020-11-08 19:08:10	low-key	i think medicine is just a very long drawn out path everyway
2020-11-08 19:08:18	low-key	as long as you're willing to persevere though
2020-11-08 19:08:21	thefunkyspaw	medicine is a noble profession
2020-11-08 19:08:23	low-key	it works out fine
2020-11-08 19:08:25	thefunkyspaw	especially in the UK
2020-11-08 19:08:35	thefunkyspaw	They do the best medical studies
2020-11-08 19:08:56	low-key	and they have a nationalised health system
2020-11-08 19:08:57	thefunkyspaw	You can mix statistics, programming, and a bit of medical background to study that
2020-11-08 19:09:01	low-key	which is something i look up to a lot
2020-11-08 19:09:19	thefunkyspaw	^low-key agreed
2020-11-08 19:10:29	tane	I recommend to watch "Carry on Doctor", a rather accurate documentary on the NHS and the british medical profession
2020-11-08 19:10:42	thefunkyspaw	https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/research-scientist-medical
2020-11-08 19:11:18	thefunkyspaw	wtf is with those wages, though
2020-11-08 19:12:12	tane	Looks like slave positions
2020-11-08 19:12:48	thefunkyspaw	This is why, if I lived in the UK, I'd go into business or finance
2020-11-08 19:13:20	thefunkyspaw	Or I'd emigrate
2020-11-08 19:15:14	nihilazo	I do want to leave the UK honestly
2020-11-08 19:15:18	nihilazo	for many reasons
2020-11-08 19:15:25	nihilazo	but that's yet another thing that is a pain in the real world
2020-11-08 19:15:54	helby	hah, every country is mostly shit, just different one
2020-11-08 19:16:26	nihilazo	how long until I can move and live in gemspace
2020-11-08 19:16:39	thefunkyspaw	I'll submit a feature request
2020-11-08 19:16:45	thefunkyspaw	🐱
2020-11-08 19:20:10	nihilazo	countries were a mistake
2020-11-08 19:21:45	alex11	with more linking to other content and contributers gemini could be really nice
2020-11-08 19:21:50	alex11	it's just... there isn't much content rn
2020-11-08 19:22:10	nihilazo	I'm trying to create content but people don't care about my content
2020-11-08 19:25:11	thefunkyspaw	90% of the content is posts about why gemini is great and and Facebook is evil
2020-11-08 19:25:19	thefunkyspaw	The other 10% is test posts
2020-11-08 19:25:33	ddevault	you're forgetting my posts about how github and glibc are evil
2020-11-08 19:25:40	thefunkyspaw	lol, true
2020-11-08 19:25:45	ddevault	and mozilla
2020-11-08 19:25:48	thefunkyspaw	Gemini needs non-tech stuff
2020-11-08 19:25:58	nihilazo	I might start posting recipes
2020-11-08 19:26:08	thefunkyspaw	political screeds, relationship advice, and breadpunk
2020-11-08 19:26:10	ddevault	martijn: ^
2020-11-08 19:26:26	nihilazo	I made my site to talk about all kinds of stuff then I've been realising that all I actually write about is tech
2020-11-08 19:26:41	nihilazo	I need to get over my anxiety of publishing low quality content and just write stuff
2020-11-08 19:26:41	kevinsan	to be fair, a lot of people are here *because* those things are so shitty, so expect early posts to be rants along those lines
2020-11-08 19:26:56	thefunkyspaw	I know I haven't posted yet, but when I do I promise to stay away from tech and politics
2020-11-08 19:27:13	ddevault	the only way to get better at writing is to practice writing
2020-11-08 19:27:17	ddevault	do me a favor and don't read my early blog posts
2020-11-08 19:27:43	thefunkyspaw	haha, the only way to keep people away from early blog posts is to make a lot of new blog posts
2020-11-08 19:27:43	kayw	i need to write more blog posts and stories for cosmic
2020-11-08 19:27:48	kevinsan	i write crap stuff as an altruistic gesture to encourage everyone to think "i can do better"
2020-11-08 19:28:27	kevinsan	i'm really a mega-talented writer, it speaks to my talent that nobody suspects me.
2020-11-08 19:28:45	kevinsan	you're all welcome.
2020-11-08 19:28:45	thefunkyspaw	Cosmic and breadpunk are the bests things on gemini
2020-11-08 19:29:01	thefunkyspaw	and if I'm being honest, breadpunk is better with pictures on http
2020-11-08 19:29:08	nihilazo	I'm on breadpunk rn
2020-11-08 19:29:14	ddevault	link up breadpunk again
2020-11-08 19:29:17	nihilazo	my gemini site is there
2020-11-08 19:29:20	nihilazo	breadpunk.clug
2020-11-08 19:29:25	thefunkyspaw	club
2020-11-08 19:29:26	nihilazo	breadpunk.club
2020-11-08 19:29:29	ddevault	thanks
2020-11-08 19:29:29	nihilazo	yeah typo
2020-11-08 19:30:02	kayw	I need to develop my breadpunk site
2020-11-08 19:30:07	nihilazo	hmm, my capsule isn't listed there
2020-11-08 19:30:08	kayw	s/develop/work on
2020-11-08 19:30:24	thefunkyspaw	ah shit, my test post is on breadpunk, I should delete it
2020-11-08 19:30:35	nihilazo	I'm now realising that there isn't a single post on my site that isn't somehow tech related
2020-11-08 19:30:37	nihilazo	I need to fix that
2020-11-08 19:30:54	thefunkyspaw	Maybe this should be a monthly challenge
2020-11-08 19:30:56	nihilazo	I feel like I want to start just adding pages for stuff whenever I feel like it, and then editing them later if they suck
2020-11-08 19:31:18	thefunkyspaw	November is nanowrimo, December should be about family or something
2020-11-08 19:31:25	nihilazo	which was kinda the idea of moving away from a blog format
2020-11-08 19:31:37	nihilazo	but now I just write a page instead of a post and then still feel weird about editing it
2020-11-08 19:31:41	ddevault	you could start a microblog
2020-11-08 19:31:57	nihilazo	I have a mastodon account where I post nonsense
2020-11-08 19:32:05	nihilazo	that's kinda my microblog
2020-11-08 19:32:18	kayw	same with mine, i guess
2020-11-08 19:32:20	nihilazo	but things there rarely develop into something I want to write a page about
2020-11-08 19:32:23	thefunkyspaw	Am I the only person that despises microblogging?
2020-11-08 19:32:29	kevinsan	i edit my posts all the time - when i change my viewpoint or understanding, I'll edit (if i can be arsed)
2020-11-08 19:32:36	nihilazo	(aside from "fuck microsoft" type things, which I feel like I'm contributing nothing to the conversation with)
2020-11-08 19:33:13	ddevault	might help if you had some shell commands which made it easier to post
2020-11-08 19:33:25	kevinsan	like vi?
2020-11-08 19:33:44	ddevault	I mean
2020-11-08 19:33:59	ddevault	like a script which summons an editor, then posts the file to your gemlog once you close the editor
2020-11-08 19:34:24	nihilazo	I have my input in a vimwiki so I can just type ws and then write whatever
2020-11-08 19:34:42	nihilazo	but it's mainly just feeling like my content has to have some standard of quality
2020-11-08 19:34:51	nihilazo	and not just writing a page about oatmeal or something
2020-11-08 19:35:02	nihilazo	(although I do want to share some dank oatmeal wisdom with the world)
2020-11-08 19:35:05	thefunkyspaw	You should write a page about oatmeal
2020-11-08 19:35:14	ddevault	^
2020-11-08 19:35:16	thefunkyspaw	Go all out. I'm sure it has an interesting history
2020-11-08 19:35:19	nihilazo	idk how much I'd be contributing to the gemspace oatmeal discourse
2020-11-08 19:35:32	thefunkyspaw	You'd be starting it, a trendsetter!
2020-11-08 19:35:34	kayw	you'd be contributing a lot
2020-11-08 19:35:34	kevinsan	nihilazo: honestly, i think if you start writing about oatmeal, you'll get past the urge to please other people
2020-11-08 19:35:56	nihilazo	I also want to post about granola
2020-11-08 19:36:13	thefunkyspaw	You could write about how steel cut oats are different from other oatmeals
2020-11-08 19:36:20	nihilazo	and become the #1 destination for hot takes about breakfast in gemspace
2020-11-08 19:36:30	nihilazo	I wish I could get my hands on steel cut oats, I can't find them near me :(
2020-11-08 19:36:34	ddevault	gemini://breakfastin.space
2020-11-08 19:36:38	ddevault	blog exclusively about breakfast
2020-11-08 19:36:41	ddevault	I would read the shit about that
2020-11-08 19:36:45	ddevault	shit out of that*
2020-11-08 19:36:53	thefunkyspaw	Make sure there's an atom feed or something
2020-11-08 19:37:02	nihilazo	I mean, there's a meditative podcast about breakfast already
2020-11-08 19:37:08	nihilazo	maybe I should make a proxy to that for gemini
2020-11-08 19:37:31	nihilazo	actually, I do kinda feel like making a gemini thing for podcasts. Because most podcast sites totally suck when all you want is an RSS feed
2020-11-08 19:37:58	nihilazo	I swear, the amount of times where the RSS feed is buried under wanting you to install an app of various streaming things or a subscription or whatever
2020-11-08 19:38:27	thefunkyspaw	RSS/atom are amazing and the failure if the protocol is an excellent critique of capitalism
2020-11-08 19:38:38	nihilazo	I need to add feeds to my site
2020-11-08 19:38:43	thefunkyspaw	s/if/of/
2020-11-08 19:38:46	nihilazo	but I will do so after I rewrite my generator to not suck
2020-11-08 19:39:52	thefunkyspaw	I'm kind of tempted to just post the raw restructured text I want to use for my HTTP blog to gopher and gemini so I can get straight to posting.
2020-11-08 19:40:06	thefunkyspaw	I figure I can convert it later.
2020-11-08 19:40:28	nihilazo	I have a terrible markdown to gemtext converter
2020-11-08 19:40:57	nihilazo	me: I'll build a site generator so I can understand how stuff works!
2020-11-08 19:41:02	thefunkyspaw	I'm doing it the hard way. rst-> html -> gemtext
2020-11-08 19:41:05	nihilazo	me less than 2 weeks later: how the fuck did this work again?
2020-11-08 19:41:21	★	nihilazo stares at less than 200 lines of his own terrible code and cries
2020-11-08 19:43:11	thefunkyspaw	I g2g do chores. ttyl, fellow kids
2020-11-08 19:43:13	nihilazo	it was fine until the way I decided to add gemini support was "fuck it, duplicate everything"
2020-11-08 19:44:21	ddevault	I should write a roff to gemtext processor
2020-11-08 19:46:05	nihilazo	that would be neat
2020-11-08 19:51:06	jcowan	I think a groff output postprocessor would be better/simpler.
2020-11-08 19:52:17	ddevault	why
2020-11-08 19:52:32	ddevault	I'd rather add a new processor to mandoc, for instance
2020-11-08 19:52:39	ddevault	address the problem at the correct level, not through indirection
2020-11-08 19:54:06	jcowan	Because writing a program to accept arbitrary troff (as opposed to just troff -man') is not exactly easy.
2020-11-08 19:54:25	ddevault	not really
2020-11-08 19:54:33	nihilazo	I might move my site from taking input in markdown to taking input in gemtext, but then I'd lose vimwiki support
2020-11-08 19:54:39	nihilazo	although I want to move away from vimwiki anyway
2020-11-08 19:54:40	ddevault	and troff -man != groff
2020-11-08 19:55:03	ddevault	the mandoc riggings for HTML output for instance are ~1500 LoC
2020-11-08 19:55:05	ddevault	not that bad
2020-11-08 19:56:40	jcowan	Sure.  Because it's processing only -man and -mdoc flavors of the troff language.  Not the whole language.
2020-11-08 19:56:52	ddevault	that is all I'm really looking for
2020-11-08 19:56:54	jcowan	Would you write a TeX to Gemini converter that didn't use tetex?
2020-11-08 19:56:59	jcowan	Oh, okay, sure.
2020-11-08 20:42:09	ddevault	I have generalized the web to gemini viewer as promised: gemini://drewdevault.com/cgi-bin/web.sh
2020-11-08 20:44:10	nihilazo	gemini://breadpunk.club/~bagel/porridge.gmi
2020-11-08 20:44:24	nihilazo	bringing HIGH QUALITY breakfast content to the gemspace
2020-11-08 20:49:49		tane has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-08 20:53:28	ew0k	Is there a sort of bare socket in javascript? I can only find how to do http calls with it
2020-11-08 20:56:21	insep	websocket or smth like that
2020-11-08 21:04:52	jcowan	ddevault: Very shiny!
2020-11-08 21:05:16	jcowan	It would be good to package it as a proxy too
2020-11-08 21:05:29	ddevault	package it?
2020-11-08 21:06:08	jcowan	Make it available for people to run as a proxy rather than a gateway.  It should be straightforward?
2020-11-08 21:06:15	ddevault	just run the CGI scripts locally
2020-11-08 21:06:22	ddevault	https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gci-scripts/tree/master/
2020-11-08 21:06:26	ddevault	see web.sh and web2gmi.js
2020-11-08 21:06:43	kevinsan	nihilazo: well, i learned cinnamon works with porridge, so you enriched the world in at least one small way!
2020-11-08 21:14:15	jcowan	I guess what I want is a trivial server that will invoke either the CGI wrapper or the stuff below it.
2020-11-08 21:14:36	jcowan	Then I can set localhost:<someport> as my HTTP proxy in Lagrange
2020-11-08 21:14:46	ddevault	gmnisrv is pretty straightforward
2020-11-08 21:15:19	ddevault	a config like this would be sufficient for what you want https://paste.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/007490e2ea8920e203cd60738086d35cdea53578
2020-11-08 21:15:50	ddevault	or /srv/gemini if you want something system-wide
2020-11-08 21:18:44	jcowan	So if you sent it a gemini request for "http://example.com/path/to/file.html" it would Just Work?
2020-11-08 21:19:04	ddevault	assuming you did it through the gateway, yes
2020-11-08 21:19:15	epoch	gotta pass the URL as a query string instead of the request afaict
2020-11-08 21:19:28	ddevault	it'd be gemini://localhost/cgi-bin/web.sh?http%3A%2F%2Fexample.com/path/to/file.html
2020-11-08 21:24:18	epoch	I was going to try running that on my gemini server, but just to do node -c 'console.log("test")' takes 27 seconds.
2020-11-08 21:24:52	ddevault	yeah, node is fucking slow
2020-11-08 21:25:32	ddevault	maybe if I add FastCGI support to gmnisrv it'd be helpful
2020-11-08 21:28:02	jcowan	I realize that I actually don't know what the proxy protocol is.  I assumed it was just passing the remote URI to the proxy like any request, que no?
2020-11-08 21:29:35	ddevault	it uses the gemini URL's query string as the URL to fetch
2020-11-08 21:50:03	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 21:53:10	lukee	jcowan: I think there are at least two flavours of proxies that do http via gemini. 1) a URL parameterised version that munges URLs, like the one by Drew and 2) scheme specific proxies that take a normal http url and retrieve the content without changing the URLs (like duckling proxy). The latter are the kind that should work with lagrange
2020-11-08 21:56:59	lukee	(I think lagrange has a bug that you have to specify the proxy machine by IP address, not name though)
2020-11-08 21:58:00	thefunkyspaw	nihilazo : Loved the post! You should try adding blueberries to your oatmeal. I'm from the American South, and we put all kinds of ridiculous shit in oatmeal, but what really will blow your mind is a dish called "grits"
2020-11-08 22:00:00	thefunkyspaw	Grits is pretty much just ground up corn sand made soggy with water or milk, so it is very similar to oatmeal except that it tastes terrible. To offset this, they add tons of butter, peanut butter, sugar, cinnamon, raisins, or fruit. I don't know why though, when you have all the ingredients of a cookie, just leave out the corn sand and make a cookie. 🤷‍♂️
2020-11-08 22:00:29	nihilazo	that sounds both amazing and terrible at the same time
2020-11-08 22:00:44	nihilazo	rn I'm uploading the recipes I have stored in my personal recipe store up to my site
2020-11-08 22:01:06	thefunkyspaw	Ooh, that's a neat idea. I have tons of recipes in Google Drive I could upload....
2020-11-08 22:02:39	nihilazo	I don't have many but it's more than nothing
2020-11-08 22:16:14	nihilazo	I've no idea where I am legally with sharing these recipes but I think I'm good
2020-11-08 22:16:23	nihilazo	and if I'm not, whoever wrote them will have to somehow find me first
2020-11-08 22:19:03		alex11 has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-08 22:22:04		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-08 22:22:48	jcowan	lukee: Only if it is localhost, because localhost is bound to the IPv6 address which typically doesn't work.
2020-11-08 22:30:26	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-08 22:31:05	lukee	ok that's good to know, although I can't understand why some apps can see localhost as ipv4 but some others would require it to be on ipv6. 
2020-11-08 22:31:08	epoch	epo.k.vu has a gemini proxy on it
2020-11-08 22:32:32	epoch	kind of
2020-11-08 22:33:50	lukee	what kind of proxy - do you have to encode the target URL as a path or query param?
2020-11-08 22:34:16	epoch	target URL as request
2020-11-08 22:34:16	lukee	I couldnt get it working as a scheme specific proxy
2020-11-08 22:34:21	lukee	ah ok
2020-11-08 22:34:40	epoch	printf "urn:ietf:rfc:1918\r\n" | openssl s_client -quiet -connect epo.k.vu:1965
2020-11-08 22:35:12	epoch	though, for urn:ietf:rfc is it just outputting a uri list.
2020-11-08 22:35:26	epoch	instead of actually downloading it and passing it on
2020-11-08 22:35:40		helby has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-08 22:35:49	epoch	I could fix that real fast though.
2020-11-08 22:36:41	epoch	I haven't tested it with /real/ clients.
2020-11-08 22:37:01	lukee	what URL schemes should it work with?
2020-11-08 22:37:58	epoch	gemini: and urn: atm
2020-11-08 22:38:09	epoch	and gemini-proxy
2020-11-08 22:38:43	lukee	ah - that's not clear from the gemsite. I tried asking for an https target and got an error
2020-11-08 22:39:08	★	epoch adds an https handler real fast
2020-11-08 22:42:54	epoch	try now?
2020-11-08 22:43:18	epoch	it doesn't attempt to do html->gemtext conversion, it just does a gemini response with content-type text/html
2020-11-08 22:45:25	lukee	woo it worked
2020-11-08 22:45:35	lukee	using GemiNaut
2020-11-08 22:45:50	epoch	woo
2020-11-08 22:46:56	lukee	GemiNaut is happy to convert html to gemtext on the client anyway
2020-11-08 22:49:02	lukee	what is it using to do the actual request?
2020-11-08 22:50:17	epoch	a pile of shell scripts
2020-11-08 22:50:22	lukee	:)
2020-11-08 22:50:44	epoch	kind of wrapped around the uristart script I have for launching URIs on my desktop
2020-11-08 22:50:54	epoch	but changed the config file to work for my gemini daemon
2020-11-08 22:51:43	lukee	my only comment is it seems a little slow - maybe it is running on a lightweight machine?
2020-11-08 22:52:12	epoch	it is running on an over-worked raspi 1 B
2020-11-08 22:52:53	lukee	its doing well then
2020-11-08 22:54:05	epoch	If you want to follow the request through the pile of shell scripts...
2020-11-08 22:54:10	lukee	if you wanted to convert the html to gemtext in the content pipeline, take a look at https://github.com/LukeEmmet/html2gmi
2020-11-08 22:54:24	epoch	the ssl is done with stunnel which then calls: https://github.com/kkabrams/shell-daemons/blob/master/geminid
2020-11-08 22:55:13	epoch	it does a check for SNI != requested_domain, and if SNI == epo.k.vu that then runs uristart
2020-11-08 22:55:25	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/uritools/blob/master/uristart
2020-11-08 22:57:44	epoch	put the uristart config file for epo.k.vu at gemini://epo.k.vu/uristart.conf
2020-11-08 22:58:04	epoch	guess I need to put the http2gemini script somewhere...
2020-11-08 23:00:19	kevinsan	lukee: a minor GemiNaut anomaly - https://gemini.susa.net:1993/Geminaut_Anomaly.jpg
2020-11-08 23:02:11	epoch	https://github.com/kkabrams/shell-daemons/blob/master/http2gemini
2020-11-08 23:07:00	lukee	kevinsan: not sure what the best fix is. In my latest dev build, it at least truncates the heading to 70 chars, which helps with very long headings
2020-11-08 23:07:41	lukee	but the problem is the display layout engine (mshtml) is trying to word wrap what is effectively a huge word with no spaces
2020-11-08 23:07:54	kevinsan	i think you've picked up #######... as a level three heading, whereas it's not a heading at all
2020-11-08 23:08:19	lukee	ah ok, I'm with you now, a different problem
2020-11-08 23:08:40	★	lukee checks the gemini spec
2020-11-08 23:09:55	lukee	actually a string of 3 or more octothorpes is a heading 3 as the whitespace is optional
2020-11-08 23:10:18	lukee	so "####" is effectively a heading 3 having the text "#"
2020-11-08 23:10:31	lukee	IMO the spec should say the space is required
2020-11-08 23:11:24	zephryn	^^^
2020-11-08 23:11:39	lukee	or another way of looking at the problem is the proxy you are using doesnt make any attempt to "escape" any sequence that could be interpreted as a gemtext line prefix
2020-11-08 23:13:56	jcowan	lukee: Not the way I read it.  "Heading lines consist of one, two or three consecutive "#" characters, followed by optional whitespace, followed by heading text."`
2020-11-08 23:13:56	lukee	eopch: if the returned content-type is text/html you could pipe it through an html to gemtext converter
2020-11-08 23:14:08	jcowan	I take that to mean that "####" is plain text.
2020-11-08 23:14:32	boringcactus	i think #### is a level 3 heading with a heading text of #
2020-11-08 23:14:42	boringcactus	since the whitespace is optional
2020-11-08 23:14:46	lukee	jcowan: the first three "###" make it a heading, the rest is the text
2020-11-08 23:14:59	epoch	lukee: I'll probably at least try doing automatic html->gmi conversion
2020-11-08 23:15:06	jcowan	You're right.
2020-11-08 23:15:13	epoch	but I'd need to install golang on this raspi first
2020-11-08 23:15:24	epoch	(or crosscompile it?)
2020-11-08 23:15:53	zephryn	not having whitespace can make some situations a bit ambiguous
2020-11-08 23:16:03	lukee	epoch: my rpi is series 1 and it runs golang
2020-11-08 23:16:25	jcowan	One could make the very very pedantic point that "### foo" is ambiguous between a level-3 header saying "foo" and a level 1 header saying "## foo", but that could be easily cured and is probably not worth fixing anyhow
2020-11-08 23:16:38	epoch	yeah, I assumed a raspi was capable, I just haven't installed it yet
2020-11-08 23:17:46	jcowan	so in practice check for heading lines in decreasing order
2020-11-08 23:17:53	jcowan	match ### then ## then #
2020-11-08 23:17:57	lukee	jcowan: yes there is some ambiguity. In practice the trick of course is to test for level 3, then 2, then 1
2020-11-08 23:18:08	★	jcowan chuckles
2020-11-08 23:18:11	jcowan	Jinx!
2020-11-08 23:19:48	lukee	its almost as if the gemini spec has a few ambiguities in it.
2020-11-08 23:20:15	lukee	if it didn't what would pedantic nerds like us fight over :)
2020-11-08 23:53:19	lukee	ok - its late here, I'm wrapping up for now...
2020-11-08 23:53:25		lukee has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-09 00:00:13	jcowan	When you've written a lot of specs, you get a nose for ambiguities.
2020-11-09 00:20:26		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-09 00:32:49	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 00:44:57	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 00:51:20	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 00:55:21		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-09 00:55:27	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 01:34:23	ℹ 	rndusr is now known as gnu_defender
2020-11-09 01:35:39	ℹ 	gnu_defender is now known as rndusr
2020-11-09 01:36:19		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-09 02:41:49		helby has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-09 03:06:01	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 03:37:04	kayw	ugh, i cannot figure out why gmnisrv isn't outputting any logs
2020-11-09 03:37:13	kayw	it just doesnt make any sense
2020-11-09 03:37:35	kayw	it does, but only when I stop the service. then it just outputs everything at once
2020-11-09 03:42:30	▬▬▶	lieu has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 04:00:00		avane has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-11-09 04:01:30	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 04:06:10		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-09 04:08:24	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 04:13:37	ℹ 	swift is now known as swiftmandolin
2020-11-09 04:14:55	ℹ 	swiftmandolin is now known as swift
2020-11-09 04:18:47	ℹ 	swift is now known as swiftmandolin
2020-11-09 04:30:18	kayw	oh it's cause i'm running it as a systemd service?
2020-11-09 04:30:27	kayw	that's... odd
2020-11-09 04:34:08	acdw	what's the output of journalctl?
2020-11-09 04:34:19	acdw	journalctl --unit gmnisrv 
2020-11-09 04:34:20	acdw	i think
2020-11-09 04:38:03		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-09 04:38:43	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 04:39:16	kayw	that's what i've been using, `journalctl -f -u gmnisrv.service`
2020-11-09 04:39:36	acdw	huh, idk then
2020-11-09 04:39:43	kayw	yeah super strange
2020-11-09 04:39:49	acdw	i feel like Patrick in that one scene of spongebob
2020-11-09 04:39:57	kayw	cc ddevault, maybe you can shed some light on this?
2020-11-09 04:40:02	acdw	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AyaAqwzgIQ
2020-11-09 04:40:28	kayw	lmao
2020-11-09 04:41:06	acdw	I think of that scene like,,,, a lot
2020-11-09 04:41:24	kayw	it's a good spongebob scene
2020-11-09 04:41:33	acdw	haha
2020-11-09 04:42:01	mieum	kayw: try running it in the foreground instead. it should spit out some logs to stdout
2020-11-09 04:42:05	khuxkm	lemme guess, is it "how does he dooooo that?"
2020-11-09 04:42:22	khuxkm	oh nvm
2020-11-09 04:42:24	acdw	haha
2020-11-09 04:42:29	khuxkm	that one's pretty good too tho
2020-11-09 04:43:23	acdw	oh yeah, every spongebob scene (of hillenburg seasons) is good
2020-11-09 04:43:24	kayw	mieum: as in just running it from the shell? It does output to stdout, that works.
2020-11-09 04:43:43	kayw	I tried it before confirming that it had to be because of the systemd service
2020-11-09 04:43:54	kayw	or there's another factor that i'm not considering
2020-11-09 04:44:16	epoch	sounds like the log file descriptor doesn't flush after each line written
2020-11-09 04:45:25	epoch	if it is sending logs to stdout, and running in foreground works, but > file doesn't try to run it using stdbuf -oL
2020-11-09 04:46:10	kayw	sure? time to edit the service and give it a go
2020-11-09 04:46:42	epoch	I just now opened the sources.
2020-11-09 04:47:56	kayw	well
2020-11-09 04:48:01	epoch	if you don't want to use stdbuf, you might try putting some fflush() after fprintf()s in log.c
2020-11-09 04:48:23	epoch	since stdbuf -oL is only for stdout
2020-11-09 04:48:25	kayw	doing `gmnisrv > gmnisrv.log` makes the service stop working
2020-11-09 04:48:55	kayw	really it just exited with status=1 so
2020-11-09 04:50:13	epoch	alright, serverlog is to stderr, and clientlog is to stdout
2020-11-09 04:50:57	★	epoch looks for the service file
2020-11-09 04:51:56	kayw	I made it myself
2020-11-09 04:52:03	kayw	https://f.salejandro.me/gmnisrv.service
2020-11-09 04:52:26	kayw	I adapted it from the one molly-brown provides
2020-11-09 04:53:47	epoch	I figure the Exec's output is supposed to go to its journal?
2020-11-09 04:54:16	kayw	I believe so, yes
2020-11-09 04:54:17	epoch	maybe change the ExecStart line to...
2020-11-09 04:54:18	acdw	afaik
2020-11-09 04:54:54	epoch	/usr/bin/stdbuf -oL /usr/bin/gmnisrv
2020-11-09 04:55:04	epoch	(I'm assuming you have stdbuf installed though)
2020-11-09 04:55:12	kayw	I do
2020-11-09 04:55:15	kayw	lemme try
2020-11-09 04:56:06	kayw	okay
2020-11-09 04:56:08	kayw	so
2020-11-09 04:56:13	kayw	let's see if this works no
2020-11-09 04:56:20	kayw	it does.
2020-11-09 04:56:53	epoch	w00t
2020-11-09 04:57:37	acdw	awesssommmmeeee
2020-11-09 04:57:47	kayw	also this looks to be a gmnisrv bug(?) but 2nd octet of the incoming IP address seems to be increasing by 2?
2020-11-09 04:58:07	epoch	weird..
2020-11-09 04:58:35	epoch	running it on Linux?
2020-11-09 04:58:44	kayw	https://hastebin.com/iveqorozej.txt
2020-11-09 04:58:45	kayw	yeah I am
2020-11-09 04:58:56	kayw	that was me reloading kristall several times
2020-11-09 04:59:06	epoch	heh
2020-11-09 05:00:31	kayw	anyways
2020-11-09 05:00:38	kayw	happy that it works now, thanks epoch 
2020-11-09 05:00:55	epoch	np
2020-11-09 06:50:26		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-09 06:50:29	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 06:52:54	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 06:52:54		acdw2 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-09 06:53:53		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-09 06:54:42	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 06:54:53		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-09 06:55:44	bie	hng, can't find a "complete" black and white emoji font
2020-11-09 06:56:02	bie	noto emoji is even missing 🧸
2020-11-09 06:57:25	zephryn	seems like the black and white noto emoji font isn't being worked on anymore :(
2020-11-09 06:59:57	bie	huh, according to fileformat.info, symbola supports the teddy bear... maybe something else is wrong
2020-11-09 07:01:28	bie	oh, i had an old version of symbola! 🎉
2020-11-09 07:16:57	ew0k	Hah! I need to change the working name of my gemini browser now that someone announced the release of another with the name Astronaut :D 
2020-11-09 07:17:53	bie	ew0k: cosmonaut? :x:x
2020-11-09 07:21:41	ew0k	bie: it crossed my mind :F 
2020-11-09 07:21:42	ew0k	:D 
2020-11-09 07:22:30	ew0k	If/when I finish it and release it I'll probably give it some whimsical name
2020-11-09 07:22:43	bie	nice nice
2020-11-09 07:22:47	bie	ew0k: how far along are you?
2020-11-09 07:25:27	ew0k	uhm... not long... :D 
2020-11-09 07:25:45	ew0k	https://notabug.org/tinyrabbit/astronaut-gemini-browser
2020-11-09 07:26:00	ew0k	I'm basically just playing around with tkinter so far
2020-11-09 07:26:25	ew0k	haven't even started on gui events or network calls
2020-11-09 07:29:46	bie	cool!
2020-11-09 07:30:12	ew0k	if it gets somewhere, then yes! :D 
2020-11-09 07:31:05	ew0k	where can I find gemget?
2020-11-09 07:35:08	▬▬▶	makeworld1 has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 07:36:56		makeworld has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-09 07:36:56	ℹ 	makeworld1 is now known as makeworld
2020-11-09 07:37:01	ew0k	bie: and thank you! I didn’t mean to brush off your compliment like that :)
2020-11-09 07:37:11	bie	ew0k: https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/gemget maybe?
2020-11-09 07:37:55	bie	ew0k: haha no problem, i know what it's like when you're not sure if a project is going anywhere
2020-11-09 07:38:25	bie	i'm trying to repurpose an old proof-of-concept gopher client into a gemini client
2020-11-09 07:54:53	ew0k	bie: that sounds interesting! 
2020-11-09 07:54:56		lieu has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-09 07:55:31	ew0k	I haven't really played around with gopher. Are those clients much different from gemini clients?
2020-11-09 07:56:43	bie	ew0k: other than the ssl stuff, a gemini client is going to be a lot simpler actually
2020-11-09 07:57:38	bie	gopher doesn't provide the mime type in the response, so you have to know in advance that a particular url is going to respond with, say, an image
2020-11-09 07:58:07	▬▬▶	lieu has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 07:59:17	ew0k	right
2020-11-09 08:09:42	ew0k	Yay! I was planning to do a write-up of my thoughts around caching, but marc put it pretty well on the ML
2020-11-09 08:10:34	ew0k	I might do anyway, if I feel like it, but it'd be more like a summary of the discussion with my own comments rather than any actual new arguments
2020-11-09 08:12:04	bie	my biggest issue is the confusion when a client decides to cache something without making it clear to the user
2020-11-09 08:12:24	aravk	bad client
2020-11-09 08:13:09	bie	i've already seen some cases of "it didn't show up for me at first, maybe something is wrong with your server?" when it's the client aggressively caching responses and not telling the user
2020-11-09 08:20:36	ew0k	bie: I see that as a UX problem rather than a protocol problem
2020-11-09 08:22:08	ew0k	and my contention is that the basic gemini philosophy is to be transparent to the user and let the user make informed choices. As reflected in the fact that clients are not supposed to fetch any resources the user didn't request, as well as inform the user when a server is redirecting them, for example.
2020-11-09 08:22:37	ew0k	I.e. caching is awesome and should be used *exactly as much and in the way the user wants/expects it to*
2020-11-09 08:22:38	bie	while i kind of agree, it's also an issue of what the "community" wants
2020-11-09 08:23:01	bie	if clients caching (without informing the user) is a-ok with the community then it's just not for me
2020-11-09 08:23:08	bie	which is fine, but it'd be nice to know lol
2020-11-09 08:24:39	aravk	it's not a-ok with the community though
2020-11-09 08:24:41	aravk	at least, I don't think so
2020-11-09 08:24:46	ew0k	I think the general expectation is to cache during a session for back/forward action -- this is what most web browsers have taught us, anyway). If my client will be caching differently than that I'll be sure to inform the user clearly about this at every turn
2020-11-09 08:25:18	aravk	yeah, I thought this back/forth caching was the normal, so the whole ML blowup was surprising
2020-11-09 08:25:26	bie	agreed, for back/forward it's fine
2020-11-09 08:25:41	ew0k	the issue of sessions that are days long is a point of controversy, though. Not everyone expects caching for back/forward to last that long
2020-11-09 08:26:20	aravk	then either the client automatically invalidates its cache after say 6 hours, or the user just knows to reload because the client tells them when the page is cached from
2020-11-09 08:27:04	ew0k	for me personally I had just never thought of it before the issue came up somewhere (not sure if I encountered it here or on the ML first). I just tend to refresh tabs that I haven't visited for a while anyway, habitually
2020-11-09 08:27:07	aravk	or lets the user decide whether to use the old cached page before destroying it - although this should be reserved to a config option
2020-11-09 08:27:13	aravk	yeah, same
2020-11-09 08:28:27	ew0k	I use back/forward action pretty sparingly; like usually going back or forward within 10-20 minutes of first visiting a page -- and then just expect it to be cached. Otherwise I have a few tabs that are open for a long time, and of course I don'
2020-11-09 08:28:37	ew0k	t expect them to refresh without me saying so
2020-11-09 08:38:52	bie	lol, a beautiful font-related bug in my client
2020-11-09 08:38:53	bie	gemini://blekksprut.net/screenshot.png
2020-11-09 08:43:13	insep	nice
2020-11-09 08:43:22		Seirdy has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-09 08:48:57	▬▬▶	Seirdy has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 08:53:45	ew0k	bie: nice :D What's the reason?
2020-11-09 08:57:04	bie	ew0k: i forgot to set a fallback font for the preformatted text
2020-11-09 08:57:10	bie	and also got the size wrong lol
2020-11-09 09:01:20	ew0k	:D
2020-11-09 10:25:04		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-09 11:04:02	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 11:12:13	▬▬▶	mink has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 11:34:35		tane has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-09 11:35:06	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 11:44:43	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 12:18:58		helby has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-09 12:56:12		avane has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-09 13:35:39		lieu has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-09 14:05:22	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 14:12:18	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 14:17:27	bie	ddevault: i'm having some trouble getting a response from your server... everything up to the handshake seems ok, but when i send the request it closes the connection
2020-11-09 14:17:43	ddevault	did you use CRLF or LF
2020-11-09 14:17:50	bie	CRLF
2020-11-09 14:17:53	ddevault	did you set SNI
2020-11-09 14:18:10	bie	hm, probably not!
2020-11-09 14:18:16	ddevault	yeah my server requires SNI
2020-11-09 14:18:24	ddevault	maybe I should mention that on the mailing list
2020-11-09 14:19:54	bie	wow, that was a simple fix, it works now! thanks!!
2020-11-09 14:20:01	ddevault	np
2020-11-09 14:21:30	insep	ddevault: gemini specification allows to specify any scheme in url that you send in request, have you thought about (ab)using that for your web for gemini? :D probably 0 clients support that as of right now, but would be fun to see someone implementing that in their client
2020-11-09 14:21:32	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 14:21:41	★	ddevault shrugs
2020-11-09 14:22:08	@tomasino	i'll actually consider it a pretty sad day for gemini when the first person does add html client support
2020-11-09 14:22:14	ddevault	^
2020-11-09 14:22:14	bie	ddevault: gemini://blekksprut.net/screenshot2.png early days~
2020-11-09 14:22:46	ddevault	rip my ascii art
2020-11-09 14:23:00	bie	lol yeah, still working on that
2020-11-09 14:24:28	insep	tomasino: qt has widget for chromium, just saying
2020-11-09 14:24:55	@tomasino	yep. kristall could have support in 5 min. i'm glad it doesn't. handing it off to xdg-open is nice
2020-11-09 14:25:09	insep	^
2020-11-09 14:25:40	kayw	bie: my client does that too haha
2020-11-09 14:25:45	@xq	heya
2020-11-09 14:25:49	@xq	how's the days in gemini space?
2020-11-09 14:25:51	kayw	hey xq
2020-11-09 14:25:55	@tomasino	hiya xq!
2020-11-09 14:26:00	bie	kayw: what's your client?
2020-11-09 14:26:14	kayw	very WIP, i'm writing it in Nim
2020-11-09 14:26:25	bie	i'm just going to display the html as text
2020-11-09 14:26:43	bie	basically handle text/gemini and handle all other text/* mime types as text/plain
2020-11-09 14:27:02	kayw	oh nice
2020-11-09 14:27:22	bie	don't think i've ever looked at nim :o
2020-11-09 14:28:13	kayw	it's very much like python, but it compiles
2020-11-09 14:28:54	kayw	hell, they even have a page on the wiki showing python code in nim
2020-11-09 14:29:10	ddevault	I also handle text/* as text/plain
2020-11-09 14:29:12	ddevault	this seems like a wise plan
2020-11-09 14:31:04	acdw	handle everything as text/plain
2020-11-09 14:31:14	acdw	image/jpeg? text/plain
2020-11-09 14:31:26	acdw	application/x-openoffice? text/plain
2020-11-09 14:31:35	ddevault	text/plain? text/plain
2020-11-09 14:31:43	acdw	no actually --- that's the clever bit
2020-11-09 14:31:48	acdw	download text/plain
2020-11-09 14:32:01	acdw	open it in the system viewer
2020-11-09 14:32:03	acdw	:P
2020-11-09 14:33:24	@xq	kayw, what do you use for UI?
2020-11-09 14:33:45	@xq	or just console interface?
2020-11-09 14:33:54	khuxkm	hmm
2020-11-09 14:34:56	khuxkm	ddevault: so I fixed my "client" to do SNI and the connection is just hanging now when I try to get gemini://drewdevault.com
2020-11-09 14:35:02	khuxkm	am I missing something?
2020-11-09 14:35:09	ddevault	my server is finicky
2020-11-09 14:35:12	ddevault	try again
2020-11-09 14:35:18	khuxkm	there we go
2020-11-09 14:37:12	kayw	xq: it's gonna be for the terminal
2020-11-09 14:37:52	kayw	There aren't many UI libraries iirc
2020-11-09 14:44:35		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-09 14:48:37		tane has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-09 14:57:22	bie	gemini://blekksprut.net/screenshot3.png pretty happy with how far i got today... now i just have to figure out scrolling 🤔
2020-11-09 15:00:16	kayw	woah
2020-11-09 15:00:18	kayw	very cool
2020-11-09 15:00:44	kayw	what font is being used there?
2020-11-09 15:01:12	bie	unifont! http://www.unifoundry.com/unifont/index.html
2020-11-09 15:01:29	kayw	thanks!
2020-11-09 15:01:43	kayw	also please do share the source code when you're done, I'd love to take a look at it
2020-11-09 15:02:08	mieum	bie: I like that you link to your screenshots through gemini :)
2020-11-09 15:02:10	bie	i probably will, yeah!
2020-11-09 15:02:46	bie	mieum: feels good to test them using my own client too, lol
2020-11-09 15:06:35	bie	mieum: did you do namu.blue?
2020-11-09 15:09:31		helby has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-09 15:13:33	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 15:15:31	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 15:21:52	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 17:09:11	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 17:20:46	acdw	bie: do you really like unifont?!
2020-11-09 17:23:43	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 17:35:13	kayw	how did you get that vhost?
2020-11-09 17:58:46	epoch	probably /msg hostserv help
2020-11-09 17:59:55	acdw	kayw: who're you asking?
2020-11-09 18:00:10		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-09 18:03:20	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 18:57:24	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 19:21:06	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 19:53:08		acdw2 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-09 20:01:59		ehmry has quit (quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-11-09 20:05:33	▬▬▶	atrval has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 20:10:11	▬▬▶	rb100 has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 20:10:58		atrval has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-11-09 20:25:41		rb100 has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-09 20:58:50	▬▬▶	acdw9 has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 21:11:52		alex11 has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-09 21:16:21	ℹ 	epoch is now known as \_o-
2020-11-09 21:16:54	ℹ 	\_o- is now known as epoch
2020-11-09 21:17:05	ℹ 	acdw9 is now known as ^_^
2020-11-09 21:17:36	ℹ 	^_^ is now known as u_u
2020-11-09 21:17:51	ℹ 	epoch is now known as `
2020-11-09 21:18:17	ℹ 	` is now known as `id|kek`
2020-11-09 21:18:29	ℹ 	`id|kek` is now known as \s
2020-11-09 21:18:40	▬▬▶	gast0n has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 21:19:36	ℹ 	\s is now known as epoch
2020-11-09 21:20:16	ℹ 	u_u is now known as a_case_of_ducks
2020-11-09 21:24:54	ℹ 	Sario|IRCCloud is now known as Sario528
2020-11-09 21:34:22	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 21:41:33	zephryn	doesn't seem like i've been getting mailing list posts in my inbox D:
2020-11-09 21:43:10	Sario528	I've had half a dozed in the past few hours, did they end up in your spam folder?
2020-11-09 21:45:13	a_case_of_ducks	zephryn: that' not *necessarily* a problem :P
2020-11-09 21:50:10	zephryn	didn't end up in spam, guess it's time to check the mailman account
2020-11-09 21:56:26	▬▬▶	nristen has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 21:59:08	@tomasino	spam spam spam & eggs?
2020-11-09 21:59:16		a_case_of_ducks has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-09 22:02:44	acdw	and spam!
2020-11-09 22:03:51	zephryn	green eggs and spam
2020-11-09 22:03:51		mink has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-09 22:04:23	Sario528	spam and WLAN
2020-11-09 22:05:57		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-09 22:06:49	zephryn	wake-on-lan, it's time for spam
2020-11-09 22:07:29	acdw	honestly spam is pretty dope
2020-11-09 22:07:38	acdw	wish they had a veg version
2020-11-09 22:08:01	zephryn	i've somehow never had it
2020-11-09 22:08:25	acdw	it's quite good fried, used to have it as a kid
2020-11-09 22:08:29	acdw	canned meat
2020-11-09 22:08:39	acdw	i'm sure it's not something you want to know the full ingredients of
2020-11-09 22:09:17	ericonr	I don't think you want to know full ingredients of most food
2020-11-09 22:09:42	acdw	banana, ingredients: banana
2020-11-09 22:09:44	acdw	not so bad
2020-11-09 22:09:50	acdw	but yeah, i get your point :P
2020-11-09 22:13:09	▬▬▶	jcromero has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 22:14:05	jcromero	ddevault Wrong URL in your atom feed for your last post 
2020-11-09 22:14:15	ddevault	please send me an email
2020-11-09 22:14:17	ddevault	sir@cmpwn.com
2020-11-09 22:18:42		jcromero has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-09 22:19:05	▬▬▶	jcromero has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 22:19:34	jcromero	ddevault Sorry for the noise. Stupid me. The blog is by solderpunk, not you :/
2020-11-09 22:39:50		jcromero has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-09 22:40:17		tane has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-09 23:12:02		gast0n has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-09 23:12:19	▬▬▶	gast0n has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 23:12:34		gast0n has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-09 23:14:20		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-09 23:16:14		helby has quit (quit: Lost terminal)
2020-11-09 23:16:25		fleeky has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-09 23:37:10	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 23:55:35	▬▬▶	gast0n has joined #gemini
2020-11-09 23:55:47		gast0n has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-09 23:57:24	▬▬▶	gast0n has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 00:15:47		tejr has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-10 00:16:03	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 00:27:39	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 00:35:24		southerntofu has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-11-10 00:36:43		avane has quit (club.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-10 00:36:43		englishm has quit (club.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-10 00:37:34	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 00:43:58		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-10 00:55:11		acdw has quit (quit: bye, love you)
2020-11-10 01:06:47		gast0n has quit (quit: Bye, see you soon! 👋)
2020-11-10 01:36:46	ℹ 	epoch is now known as \_o-
2020-11-10 01:37:11	ℹ 	\_o- is now known as epoch
2020-11-10 02:18:42	▬▬▶	lieu has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 02:19:40	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 02:25:56		acdw has quit (quit: bye, love you)
2020-11-10 02:38:12	▬▬▶	litterbox has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 02:38:16		litterbox has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-10 02:43:23	makeworld	Mailing list is fast and furious
2020-11-10 02:52:15	@tomasino	raawr
2020-11-10 02:53:52	kayw	as it should be
2020-11-10 02:57:17	@tomasino	gemtext formatting, my favorite
2020-11-10 02:59:08		lieu has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-10 02:59:16		kiedtl has quit (quit: This, too, shall pass.)
2020-11-10 02:59:41	▬▬▶	kiedtl has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 03:03:27	▬▬▶	lieu has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 03:05:38	khuxkm	holy
2020-11-10 03:06:25	khuxkm	i take one day off of reading emails
2020-11-10 03:08:01		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-10 03:08:41	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 03:08:41	bie	𝘪𝘧 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙡𝙡𝙮 𝘯𝘦𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘴, 𝖚𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖔𝖉𝖊 𝖍𝖆𝖘 𝖞𝖔𝖚 𝖈𝖔𝖛𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖉
2020-11-10 03:23:23	khuxkm	that looks like shit ngl
2020-11-10 03:24:47	tejr	^ He's right you know
2020-11-10 03:30:35		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 03:31:06	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 03:33:59	bie	yyup!
2020-11-10 03:35:49	bie	hmm... i'm not sure if i even like the advanced line types in text/gemini
2020-11-10 03:36:13	bie	semantic markup was a mistake :x:x
2020-11-10 03:49:41	khuxkm	>markup was a mistake
2020-11-10 03:49:42	khuxkm	ftfy
2020-11-10 03:50:18	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 03:51:21	low-key	This is my first mailing list ever and now it's all I can see in my inbox
2020-11-10 03:51:26	low-key	🤭
2020-11-10 03:52:57	low-key	As someone who's just starting out with neomutt, is there a simple way to move all the mailing list mail to a separate folder automatically?
2020-11-10 03:53:17	low-key	And if not then is there any client that can?
2020-11-10 04:07:46		bacterio has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 04:28:24	mieum	low-key: these past few days I've also realized I need to start filtering >_<
2020-11-10 04:29:15	low-key	hehe
2020-11-10 04:29:22	mieum	I'm not sure about neo-mutt, but what about using notmuch or something?
2020-11-10 04:29:28	low-key	notmuch?
2020-11-10 04:29:39	mieum	https://notmuchmail.org/
2020-11-10 04:29:40	low-key	i'm sorry but i'm very new to the world of email on the terminal
2020-11-10 04:29:55	low-key	mieum: you saw my message thanking you for tdiv?
2020-11-10 04:29:59	low-key	i loved it!
2020-11-10 04:30:13	mieum	oh yeah? I missed that >_< glad you liked it! it's such a great tool
2020-11-10 04:30:19	mieum	sloum makes some really cool stuff
2020-11-10 04:32:25	low-key	and i managed to filter the mailing list stuff using the web client for migadu
2020-11-10 04:32:38	mieum	oh nice!
2020-11-10 04:32:53	mieum	it's time for me to get on that too....
2020-11-10 05:02:34	low-key	I tried it out on a whim yesterday
2020-11-10 05:02:37	low-key	And am loving it
2020-11-10 05:02:51	low-key	Might switch to it full-time
2020-11-10 05:03:00	low-key	It's micro plan made me realise how overpriced ProtonMail is
2020-11-10 05:16:34		lieu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 05:20:50	▬▬▶	lieu has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 05:24:51		lieu has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 06:56:10	zephryn	migadu has been pretty nice for me
2020-11-10 07:04:29		jns has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 07:16:19	▬▬▶	jns has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 07:34:04	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 07:40:00	▬▬▶	trqx has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 07:54:24	ew0k	Wow! The mailing list is on fire!
2020-11-10 07:55:00	bie	lol yeah
2020-11-10 08:01:56		Seirdy has quit (quit: exiting 3.0-rc1)
2020-11-10 08:03:45	ew0k	I like the escape character discussion.
2020-11-10 08:04:02	▬▬▶	Seirdy has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 08:06:28	insep	someone has already tried to abuse them? :D
2020-11-10 08:07:06	Seirdy	low-key: migadu++
2020-11-10 08:07:30	Seirdy	low-key: if you use your own domain for emails you can switch pretty easily
2020-11-10 08:07:47	Seirdy	without having to tell everyone in your abook "yo fellas i changed my email"
2020-11-10 08:07:58	ew0k	insep: I haven't read all the latest emails yet, but I wouldn't be surprised!
2020-11-10 08:08:23	low-key	Yeah, I started using my own domain now
2020-11-10 08:08:40	Seirdy	low-key: there's also mblaze: https://github.com/leahneukirchen/mblaze
2020-11-10 08:09:18	low-key	I was using my own domain on ProtonMail too but then the pm.me address sounded a lot better and that's the one I ended up giving out to everybody
2020-11-10 08:09:18	insep	wait, what escape characters are we talking about exactly? \\ or ansi escape codes?
2020-11-10 08:09:36	Seirdy	https://pleroma.envs.net/notice/A0pdzM7PxfPkwr1qPQ
2020-11-10 08:12:38	bie	insep: \\ and the like
2020-11-10 08:12:43	low-key	Seirdy: that's handy. I ended up using mutt-wizard
2020-11-10 08:12:46	bie	personally i don't think it would be worth it
2020-11-10 08:12:58	low-key	It set everything up very nicely
2020-11-10 08:13:14	insep	oh then i have yet to abuse asci escape codes
2020-11-10 08:14:00	insep	also wonder how existing servers would react to urls with cyrillic in them
2020-11-10 08:14:06	Seirdy	low-key: the key is to understand that you aren't using one mail client; you're using one client for bulk search and filtering, one client for quick tasks, and possibly one client for fetching email (mbsync/isync or fdm) and one client for sending emails (msmtp or fdm).
2020-11-10 08:14:10	bie	insep: should be fine if you percent encode them!
2020-11-10 08:14:21	bie	insep: i've got some urls with japanese in them
2020-11-10 08:14:26	insep	bie: i mean in base url
2020-11-10 08:14:55	insep	like абвгд.рф, but probably they will need to be encoded in some way
2020-11-10 08:15:21	bie	oh yeah!  punycode
2020-11-10 08:15:30	insep	yup
2020-11-10 08:15:33	low-key	Seirdy: Yes, using mutt-wizard made me realise that's what the email on the terminal experience is like
2020-11-10 08:15:41	low-key	With all the dependencies it pulled in
2020-11-10 08:16:16	Seirdy	low-key: it's like mpd if you're into that. many clients for one backend, each with their own strengths/weaknesses. as opposed to one client that can do everything shittily.
2020-11-10 08:16:28	bie	pretty sure my server would handle it... haven't released it yet, though
2020-11-10 08:16:41	low-key	That's a nice analogy
2020-11-10 08:16:45	Seirdy	low-key: also check out aerc: https://aerc-mail.org/
2020-11-10 08:16:46	low-key	Hadn't thought of it in those terms
2020-11-10 08:16:56	low-key	I'm actually impressed with how well all these parts play together 
2020-11-10 08:17:10	low-key	I did try aerc but the lack of colour is a turn off
2020-11-10 08:17:23	Seirdy	it has color, but not 24-bit color
2020-11-10 08:17:42	Seirdy	that's being worked on rn; you can search for tcell in the mailing list
2020-11-10 08:23:12	low-key	ohh
2020-11-10 08:23:18	low-key	i'll join the list then
2020-11-10 08:23:35	low-key	because i did prefer its straightforwardness over this mutt and family approach
2020-11-10 08:24:56	Seirdy	low-key: i just have everything go to my inbox, but i have mblaze scripts to sort read messages after i finish reading them. everything in my inbox is a to-do, and after i mark an item it gets picked up by a script and auto-sorted. sort of what like google's inbox was trying to do without all the proprietary webshit and lock-in
2020-11-10 08:28:17	low-key	ah, that's quite the setup
2020-11-10 08:33:47	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 08:38:30	Seirdy	aite it's time for suya. nite nite gemininauts 💤
2020-11-10 08:38:52	boringcactus	gn
2020-11-10 08:41:38	ew0k	night night!
2020-11-10 08:45:40	bie	seems to work! gemini://濁.jp/ (or gemini://xn--0ix.jp/)
2020-11-10 08:47:40	boringcactus	oh nice
2020-11-10 08:48:15	boringcactus	Lagrange doesn't do the Punycode translation either direction automatically
2020-11-10 08:48:36	boringcactus	so thanks for also including the encoded domain name
2020-11-10 08:50:08	bie	also had to figure out how to do a self-signed certificate with alternate names
2020-11-10 08:50:32	bie	since my server only reads a single cert/key
2020-11-10 08:51:58	boringcactus	it kicks ass that gmnisrv will just kinda figure the cert stuff out on its own
2020-11-10 08:52:10	bie	yeah i kinda wanna do that too!
2020-11-10 08:52:30	Seirdy	sike i didn't sleep yet nyahahah
2020-11-10 08:52:43	bie	shouldn't be too hard, i'm already using libressl for everything
2020-11-10 08:52:44	boringcactus	what if i sleep instead
2020-11-10 08:53:01	Seirdy	boringcactus: no don't we'll be lonli
2020-11-10 08:53:17	bie	Seirdy: where in the world are you located?
2020-11-10 08:53:30	Seirdy	bie: south bay area, CA/US
2020-11-10 08:53:38	Seirdy	UTC-08:00
2020-11-10 08:53:43	bie	oohh right!
2020-11-10 08:53:50	bie	yeah, guess it's getting a little late there
2020-11-10 08:54:02	ew0k	I've never heard the term "punycode" before, and now that I read it I hear it in the voice of the Hulk: "PUNY CODE! WRRAAAARRRGH!!"
2020-11-10 08:54:28	Seirdy	bie: doesn't seem to work in amfora, and haven't yet generated a cert for bombadillo on this machine...
2020-11-10 08:55:03	bie	Seirdy: the xn--0ix.jp thing doesn't work either?
2020-11-10 08:55:10	Seirdy	bie: one sec
2020-11-10 08:55:22	Seirdy	oh that works
2020-11-10 08:55:44	bie	oh nice!
2020-11-10 08:55:49	ew0k	bie: Are you writing your own server?
2020-11-10 08:55:54	Seirdy	bie: i can ping it too
2020-11-10 08:56:06	bie	ew0k: yea, it's pretty basic though
2020-11-10 08:56:26	ew0k	cool!
2020-11-10 08:56:35	bie	aannnd i haven't tried it on anything other than openbsd
2020-11-10 08:57:06	bie	but it's serving my "personal" thing at blekksprut.net and my record label at higeki.jp
2020-11-10 08:57:17	Seirdy	ew0k: https://0x0.st/inLp.webp
2020-11-10 08:59:31	Seirdy	yeah currently serving gemini://seirdy.one on gmnisrv, loving it.
2020-11-10 08:59:58	Seirdy	looks like gmnisrv is poised to become the nginx equivalent of the gemini space
2020-11-10 09:00:13	Seirdy	s/of/for/
2020-11-10 09:00:37	Seirdy	ok it's suya time 4real. gnite 💤
2020-11-10 09:00:45	ew0k	Seirdy: sleep well :)
2020-11-10 09:00:50	bie	it looks good, yeah! part of the fun for me is writing my own stuff, so i'll keep doing it, tho
2020-11-10 09:00:53	bie	Seirdy: night night
2020-11-10 09:01:04		CoopDot has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 09:01:15	▬▬▶	CoopDot has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 09:26:20	▬▬▶	ehmry has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 09:33:34		nixo has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-10 09:34:04	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 09:41:34		nixo has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-10 10:02:24		awalvie has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 10:25:36		englishm has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 10:27:33	▬▬▶	englishm has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 11:13:00		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 11:14:20	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 13:13:00		tejr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 13:21:00	▬▬▶	tejr has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 13:36:12	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 13:42:37	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 14:16:37		acdw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 14:25:25	bie	khuxkm: regarding your message on the mailing list, wouldn't tls closure alerts be enough to figure out if the entire response was sent? i might be way off base on this, still learning tls...
2020-11-10 14:30:28	bie	yeah looking into it i think it might be... enough?
2020-11-10 14:45:54	@tomasino	perhaps it's the old BBS guy in me, but i just figure i'll try to open the file and if it didn't work i know it got truncated
2020-11-10 14:46:41	bie	yeah, i mean... that's what i do
2020-11-10 14:48:11	bie	but if tls is already making some guarantees, there's even less of a need for content-length
2020-11-10 14:49:29	@tomasino	yeah
2020-11-10 15:05:14		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-11-10 15:11:01	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 15:18:21	khuxkm	note that I'm not advocating for either of trevor's proposals; I'm advocating against the stance that "Gemini is for small text files" is a valid excuse
2020-11-10 15:18:43	khuxkm	because let me ask you: what happens if someone wants to serve a large text file? then what?
2020-11-10 15:19:52	khuxkm	someone could want to serve the entire text content of Subspace Emissary's Worlds Conquest (the longest piece of English literature ever written) over Gemini
2020-11-10 15:19:59	khuxkm	not sure why, but they could
2020-11-10 15:22:37	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 15:24:37	jcowan	If you have it as text/gemini, why not?
2020-11-10 15:25:11	@tomasino	i serve a large text file on team
2020-11-10 15:25:16	@tomasino	the logs to this chat! :D
2020-11-10 15:26:28	khuxkm	all I'm going to say is "imagine suggesting someone use another protocol when you yourself are making a protocol instead of using one that already exists"
2020-11-10 15:27:55	★	tomasino shrugs
2020-11-10 15:28:10	@tomasino	people want a progress bar? is that what all this is about?
2020-11-10 15:29:20	khuxkm	kinda? there's that, which would be nice from a UX standpoint
2020-11-10 15:29:20	@tomasino	just make a progress bar in windows style. Start quickly by animating to 50% in about a second. Then animate 50% of the remaining distance every second. If the connection ends, zip to 100%.
2020-11-10 15:29:37	@tomasino	zeno's progress bar ftw
2020-11-10 15:30:47	xfnw	lol
2020-11-10 15:32:55	mieum	,grab @tomasino
2020-11-10 15:32:55	tildebot	[Quotes] Nothing found to quote
2020-11-10 15:33:03	mieum	,grab tomasino
2020-11-10 15:33:04	tildebot	[Quotes] Quote added
2020-11-10 15:35:42	▬▬▶	benoliver999 has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 15:37:59	@tomasino	content length isn't enough ensure data came through properly. Even if you get the right amount it could have been garbled. We're not going to add checksums or hash comparisons or anything, so what exactly does it give us beyond a progress bar?
2020-11-10 15:38:59	@tomasino	as far as progress bars go, they're useful for very large files or very slow connections, but mostly so you can know something is in progress. It's not much of an improvement over a display showing how much data has transferred. You don't get a time to complete estimate, but this is the slow-net. Take your time and wait
2020-11-10 15:39:13	@tomasino	or you can remember, shoot... i'm on a slow connection, and cancel
2020-11-10 15:39:30	xfnw	doesint tcp ensure data came through non-garbled?
2020-11-10 15:40:02	khuxkm	>We're not going to add checksums or hash comparisons or anything
2020-11-10 15:40:06	khuxkm	don't give them any ideas
2020-11-10 15:40:21	xfnw	lol
2020-11-10 15:40:34	bie	khuxkm: i'm totally on board with gemini being fine for large files as well
2020-11-10 15:40:38	khuxkm	in any case the goal is to make sure you got as much data as you were supposed to (no truncated files
2020-11-10 15:40:41	khuxkm	)
2020-11-10 15:40:46	nihilazo	me: I'm going to rewrite my site generator in go, should be easy
2020-11-10 15:40:52	bie	so far i don't miss any... special features or protocol support, though
2020-11-10 15:40:57	@tomasino	oh, yeah, it totally does
2020-11-10 15:41:02	@tomasino	ignore me. TCP ftw
2020-11-10 15:41:07	nihilazo	also me: *writes a gemtext rendering engine for blackfriday because he wants to do markdown to gemtext "properly"*
2020-11-10 15:41:09	@tomasino	TCP already checksums
2020-11-10 15:41:15	bie	serving relatively large images and audio data has been working perfectly so far for me
2020-11-10 15:41:26	@tomasino	and sequences with acks
2020-11-10 15:41:45	ehmry	I was for checksums but now I'm against them, its gotten out of hand
2020-11-10 15:41:54	@tomasino	so, flip my words around. We don't need content length for that cause TCP already does it. So all it gets us is progress bars!
2020-11-10 15:42:03	khuxkm	don't mind me just porting my AO3 proxy script to gemini :)
2020-11-10 15:42:10	khuxkm	tomasino: but what if the connection dies :P
2020-11-10 15:42:17	khuxkm	either way I'm not actually arguing for a size param
2020-11-10 15:42:32	khuxkm	just sick and tired of hearing the same dead argument every time being thrown around as if it means something
2020-11-10 15:42:42	xfnw	would a never-ending gemini document follow the spec?
2020-11-10 15:42:56	@tomasino	then you get a tcp connection failed message?
2020-11-10 15:43:13	khuxkm	xfnw: honestly it kinda would and yet it kinda wouldn't
2020-11-10 15:43:31	ehmry	well, progress bars are necessary, even if they are fake, people don't tolerate things without progress bars
2020-11-10 15:43:43	xfnw	lol
2020-11-10 15:44:25	ehmry	I don't like a lot of animation but there should be some visual feedback if there are bytes flowing
2020-11-10 15:44:39	@tomasino	bytes flowing IS the feedback
2020-11-10 15:44:40	@tomasino	show that
2020-11-10 15:44:56	@tomasino	300kb transferred...
2020-11-10 15:45:06	bie	show them in 3d, firing against the user like a hail of bullets
2020-11-10 15:45:07	khuxkm	ooh, a bytes flowing animation from a globe icon to a folder/computer (for download/normal request respectively)
2020-11-10 15:45:33	khuxkm	make it programmatic so you can show the actual bytes moving from the computer to the globe icon and the globe icon to the computer
2020-11-10 15:45:44	@tomasino	xfnw: the neverending document would never get loaded because right now the spec waits for transmission to end to display. If you use the gemini+stream concept it would work just fine, though
2020-11-10 15:45:44	khuxkm	fuck now I really want to proof of concept this animation idea
2020-11-10 15:45:53	@tomasino	haha
2020-11-10 15:46:44	ehmry	if wget or curl didn't have animations no one would use them outside scripts
2020-11-10 15:47:35	bie	i'm currently just showing a bouncing floppy disk icon when a request is still ongoingn
2020-11-10 15:48:38	@tomasino	TCP sends a FIN packet at the end of its transmission. If you don't wait for the TLS close, there's that to look for. If you don't receive any data for {TIMEOUT} then assume broken connection and close.
2020-11-10 15:49:18	bie	++
2020-11-10 15:49:18	@tomasino	that's one of several TCP half-open remediation strategies already out there in the wild
2020-11-10 15:51:00	alex11	this channel is so acticw
2020-11-10 15:51:02	alex11	active*
2020-11-10 15:51:27	@tomasino	content length brings other challenges. In http if your content length value is smaller than bytes received those extras automatically feed into the next chunk, assuming there will be one
2020-11-10 15:51:48	@tomasino	we don't have that here, so is that an error? what sort of error? content-length mismatch?
2020-11-10 15:52:15	@tomasino	it is chatty!
2020-11-10 15:52:43	ericonr	tomasino: isn't content-length a different thing from chunked encoding?
2020-11-10 15:53:06	@tomasino	they can be used in tandem or apart
2020-11-10 15:53:16	@tomasino	if you're not chunked then the extra bytes are part of the next http message
2020-11-10 15:53:32	@tomasino	we also don't have a next message in gemini
2020-11-10 15:54:21	@tomasino	anywho, it's a mess the further into it i dig. I should probably look at FTP instead of HTTP for paralles
2020-11-10 15:54:27	@tomasino	parallels
2020-11-10 15:55:38	@tomasino	does FTP send content length?
2020-11-10 15:55:45	@tomasino	i'm not seeing it with a quick glance
2020-11-10 15:56:30	@tomasino	soma dronezone is killin' it today
2020-11-10 15:56:32	★	tomasino grooves
2020-11-10 15:57:23	@tomasino	anyway, you see i'm not bringing any of this to the ML. I don't want to pour more fuel on the fire. Solderpunk already ruled on content-length. Lets talk about more pretty "something is happening" bars like the Netscape animated logo
2020-11-10 15:57:24	wgreenhouse	dronezone++
2020-11-10 15:57:45	@tomasino	anyone going to take the actual netscape logo animation for their client? that'd be fun
2020-11-10 16:20:30	ew0k	tomasino: where can I find it??? :D
2020-11-10 16:20:39	ew0k	and would that be legal?
2020-11-10 16:21:49	@tomasino	legal? probably not, but who is gonna come after you for a gemini client
2020-11-10 16:21:53	@tomasino	mozilla? nah
2020-11-10 16:22:33	ew0k	I could call the client NetEscape
2020-11-10 16:22:43	@tomasino	looks like AOL owns the trademark now
2020-11-10 16:23:46	@tomasino	one of the old netscape developers has a website all about the logo animation through the years and some easter eggs he added
2020-11-10 16:23:54	@tomasino	can't remember his name, but it might be fun to draw from
2020-11-10 16:44:11	nihilazo	I wonder if this renderer will be useful to anybody else
2020-11-10 16:44:28	nihilazo	I guess doing markdown to gemtext in golang is something at least somebody else might find useful
2020-11-10 16:46:21	ericonr	nihilazo: are you doing it because you need it or because you want to do it?
2020-11-10 16:46:29	ericonr	there is a python converter already
2020-11-10 16:46:32	nihilazo	well, both
2020-11-10 16:46:39	nihilazo	I want to rewrite my site generator in go and it uses markdown
2020-11-10 16:47:22	nihilazo	but I wanted to do it more properly than parsing with regex like my clojure site generator does, so I'm using blackfriday as a parser 
2020-11-10 16:51:56		wangofett has quit (quit: drop me a line: me@wangofett.com)
2020-11-10 16:52:31	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 16:53:01	@tomasino	i like Gary's ML email
2020-11-10 16:53:03		acdw has quit (quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients)
2020-11-10 16:53:05	@tomasino	nice summary
2020-11-10 16:53:21	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 16:53:34		acdw has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-10 16:53:34	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 16:53:50		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-10 16:55:05	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 16:55:25		acdw has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-10 16:55:25	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 16:58:42	acdw	I can't keep track of all these ML emails
2020-11-10 17:00:09	khuxkm	tomasino: except "you will receive a close_notify" is kinda dodging the fact that some servers might be in violation of the spec and not send a close_notify
2020-11-10 17:02:09	khuxkm	but I'm done trying to argue with people on the ML
2020-11-10 17:02:43	nihilazo	I'm on digest mode on the ML
2020-11-10 17:02:46	nihilazo	there's too much otherwise
2020-11-10 17:04:59	khuxkm	doveadm expunge -u $(whoami) mailbox Inbox header Sender "\"Gemini\" <gemini-bounces@lists.orbitalfox.eu>" all
2020-11-10 17:05:02	khuxkm	doveadm purge
2020-11-10 17:05:09	khuxkm	that's how I clean up my ML emails after I'm done reading them
2020-11-10 17:05:22	khuxkm	if I really want to save a message I can archive it first
2020-11-10 17:07:15	@tomasino	if a server is in violation of the spec for close_notify, why are we trying to fix it with another addition to the spec?
2020-11-10 17:07:23	@tomasino	just follow the spec in the first place and you're good
2020-11-10 17:07:54	@tomasino	i delete them as i read them. The archives are online
2020-11-10 17:09:24	acdw	nihilazo: i should switch to digest mode, maybe
2020-11-10 17:09:39	acdw	khuxkm: such a good diea
2020-11-10 17:09:58	★	acdw setting up a autopurge
2020-11-10 17:11:27	jcowan	insep: When you put non-ASCII characters into an URL, they are Punycoded in the domain name, but elsewhere they are escaped with %xx representing UTF-8 bytes
2020-11-10 17:14:20	bie	my silly little guestbook now uses the UID from the client certificate instead of asking for a name (if available)...
2020-11-10 17:14:39	ddevault	I've been wondering about what kinds of clever stuff we can stash into client certificates
2020-11-10 17:14:43	bie	(no idea how i'll actually end up doing this, i'm just experimenting with client certs)
2020-11-10 17:14:44	khuxkm	>just follow the spec in the first place and you're good
2020-11-10 17:14:49	khuxkm	ah yes because that's so easy
2020-11-10 17:14:59	ddevault	ugh, don't greentext on IRC
2020-11-10 17:15:01	ddevault	cringe af
2020-11-10 17:15:22	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 17:15:38	khuxkm	I can't accept self signed client certificates because Python's SSL lib won't ask for a client cert and not verify it
2020-11-10 17:15:48	tane	howdy
2020-11-10 17:15:55	ddevault	file a bug with python
2020-11-10 17:16:59	khuxkm	what am I supposed to say even
2020-11-10 17:17:07	khuxkm	"hey your ssl lib won't let me ask for a self-signed cert"
2020-11-10 17:17:08	khuxkm	?
2020-11-10 17:17:12	ddevault	yes
2020-11-10 17:17:14	@tomasino	yep!
2020-11-10 17:17:15	@tomasino	:D
2020-11-10 17:17:20	@tomasino	that's a valid issue
2020-11-10 17:17:38	khuxkm	how do you even get OpenSSL to accept it? I don't really want to bug someone without having an idea of a solution
2020-11-10 17:18:02	tane	khuxkm, are you sure that it isn't possible, as in absolutely sure?
2020-11-10 17:18:13	ddevault	>how do you even get OpenSSL to accept it?
2020-11-10 17:18:15	ddevault	https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gmni/tree/master/src/tofu.c
2020-11-10 17:18:33	khuxkm	tane: there's no codepath in the SSL library to do it
2020-11-10 17:18:39	ddevault	also, fun fact, OpenSSL is not the only TLS implementation, nor the only one worth supporting or considering
2020-11-10 17:18:47	khuxkm	well it's the one CPython ssl uses
2020-11-10 17:19:00	khuxkm	although it does have support for Libre and Bear IIRC
2020-11-10 17:19:33	acdw	what *is* greentext anyway? Like I do not understand it
2020-11-10 17:20:12	★	xfnw likes libressl
2020-11-10 17:20:23	▬▬▶	bholovchenko has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 17:21:08	@tomasino	it's texted turned green in the terminal, acdw
2020-11-10 17:21:14	@tomasino	you can pass color codes in IRC
2020-11-10 17:21:15	insep	> not knowing what is greentext
2020-11-10 17:21:19	@tomasino	some clients blow up on them, though
2020-11-10 17:22:05	@tomasino	"in the terminal" isn't quite right. just color change in IRC. gui clients can support them too
2020-11-10 17:23:06	★	ddevault passionately dislikes libressl
2020-11-10 17:23:25	bie	ddevault: wow why?
2020-11-10 17:24:03	ddevault	if they're going to break compatibility as severely as they had then they had better fucking change their header/library/pkg-config installation path so it doesn't conflict with openssl
2020-11-10 17:24:15	@tomasino	six fingers on its right hand, killed his father, should prepare to die
2020-11-10 17:24:23	ddevault	they've diverged well over the acceptable line for a "compatible" implementation
2020-11-10 17:24:49	bie	ehh, fair enough
2020-11-10 17:25:02	insep	mesalink anyone? :^)
2020-11-10 17:25:04	bie	doesn't really affect me since i don't use the protable version
2020-11-10 17:25:05	bie	portable
2020-11-10 17:25:49	ddevault	if they wanted to make a compatible, but better openssl, they failed
2020-11-10 17:25:57	ddevault	if they wanted to make a good TLS library, starting from the openssl codebase is fucking dumb
2020-11-10 17:30:31	ew0k	The ML. It's... active...
2020-11-10 17:30:31	acdw	tomasino: I know about the ciolor part, i just mean like,,,, it's a 4chan thing right? like, why?!
2020-11-10 17:30:35	acdw	so. active
2020-11-10 17:31:17	acdw	also yes ddevault ---- i agree with libressl.  i had to monkey-patch gmnisrv to get it to run a test server on Void
2020-11-10 17:31:22	acdw	b/c void don't have openssl
2020-11-10 17:31:28	acdw	it's like,,, puh
2020-11-10 17:31:38	ddevault	the worst is that libressl users have been lied to and told that it's compatible
2020-11-10 17:31:44	acdw	^ I know i was
2020-11-10 17:31:46	ddevault	and then come bother me about it when their incompatible implementation can't compile my software
2020-11-10 17:31:55	ddevault	well, it ain't my fault, go bitch to someone else
2020-11-10 17:32:02	acdw	lol yeah -- saw an issue on your ML, decided not to say anything
2020-11-10 17:32:30		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 17:33:48	▬▬▶	gremax has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 17:35:22	@tomasino	oh, didn't know there was a 4chan thing. Lets avoid those
2020-11-10 17:36:10	acdw	haha
2020-11-10 17:36:33	acdw	literally the only thing i know about it; maybe khuxkm can illuminate the rest?
2020-11-10 17:37:15	ddevault	using > to quote people is not a 4chan thing; doing it in green is
2020-11-10 17:37:28	ddevault	it's pretty cringe to go out of your way to signal 4channer status on IRC
2020-11-10 17:37:36	ddevault	that's all that really needs to be said, I think.
2020-11-10 17:40:28	acdw	lol
2020-11-10 17:40:37	★	acdw is a normie apparently
2020-11-10 17:55:00	jcowan	In particular, > is also used in git-flavored Markdown, and of course in email and Usenet before each line.
2020-11-10 17:55:19	khuxkm	fine geez I'll stop >:(
2020-11-10 17:55:23	khuxkm	you're cringe too
2020-11-10 17:56:10	acdw	what even is 4chan? that's a hacker right?
2020-11-10 18:02:11	khuxkm	ah yes
2020-11-10 18:02:17	khuxkm	the mysterious hacker known as 4chan
2020-11-10 18:02:34	acdw	:P
2020-11-10 18:03:35	khuxkm	>I'm tempted to buy one of those vanity domains like willgeminisupportescaping.com
2020-11-10 18:03:41	khuxkm	why not willgemini.support
2020-11-10 18:03:48	acdw	is .support a tld?
2020-11-10 18:03:54	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 18:04:00	khuxkm	then you can have willgemini.support/escaping, willgemini.support/contentlength
2020-11-10 18:04:01	acdw	also the reply was similar -- willgeminisupport.com
2020-11-10 18:04:08	▬▬▶	jonah_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 18:04:12	khuxkm	https://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt it's on the list
2020-11-10 18:04:17	acdw	oh neat
2020-11-10 18:04:21	★	acdw checks on namecheap
2020-11-10 18:04:33	acdw	i do not need to buy another domain
2020-11-10 18:04:42	acdw	should be a .gemini tld
2020-11-10 18:04:52	acdw	oh it's *only* 4.80 a eyar
2020-11-10 18:10:14	khuxkm	5 bucks a year? to point people at gemini://willgemini.support/italics and have it tell them NO
2020-11-10 18:10:19	khuxkm	seems worth it to me
2020-11-10 18:13:35	acdw	haha
2020-11-10 18:13:45	acdw	hmmm 
2020-11-10 18:13:47	acdw	mayvbe
2020-11-10 18:13:50	acdw	lemme think on it
2020-11-10 18:16:55	nihilazo	YEAH DO IT
2020-11-10 18:16:58	nihilazo	well worth it
2020-11-10 18:17:14	acdw	baahhhhh
2020-11-10 18:17:21	acdw	idk about the mememememes
2020-11-10 18:17:25	acdw	you could do it nihilazo 
2020-11-10 18:17:38	nihilazo	I would buy that domain for the memes
2020-11-10 18:18:03	nihilazo	but it'd have to redirect to a "will gemini support" thing on my breadpunk because I don't have my own gemini post
2020-11-10 18:18:05	nihilazo	s/post/host
2020-11-10 18:18:17	nihilazo	ACTUALLY y'know that wouldn't work
2020-11-10 18:18:28	nihilazo	because the thingy that domain registrars use for that is HTTP
2020-11-10 18:18:34	nihilazo	:(
2020-11-10 18:18:35	acdw	if you buy the domain i'll route it
2020-11-10 18:18:46	acdw	um no not exactly
2020-11-10 18:18:56	acdw	DNS != HTTP
2020-11-10 18:19:07	nihilazo	well, if you are trying to point a domain at something that is on like, example.com/foo rather than foo.example.com
2020-11-10 18:19:12	nihilazo	I think that uses an http redirect
2020-11-10 18:19:24	nihilazo	at least, I had to pick what http code to use, so I guess that is what it's using
2020-11-10 18:19:55	nihilazo	but if you have something I can point the DNS at, sure
2020-11-10 18:20:08	nihilazo	I'm willing to pay $5 a year for months
2020-11-10 18:20:11	nihilazo	s/months/memes
2020-11-10 18:21:02	acdw	haha sure
2020-11-10 18:21:21	acdw	i think the renew is 14.88 a year
2020-11-10 18:21:29	nihilazo	oh hmm
2020-11-10 18:21:31	nihilazo	that's a bit more
2020-11-10 18:21:33	acdw	yeah
2020-11-10 18:21:38	acdw	that's where they get ya
2020-11-10 18:22:03	nihilazo	not sure I'm willing to pay 15 a year for the meme
2020-11-10 18:22:12	nihilazo	should we split the cost
2020-11-10 18:22:15	nihilazo	lmao
2020-11-10 18:23:03	acdw	lol that cost would be better spent on other things propbablay
2020-11-10 18:23:14	nihilazo	true
2020-11-10 18:23:22	nihilazo	whatever, it was a fun idea
2020-11-10 18:23:30	★	nihilazo goes back to writing his markdown renderer
2020-11-10 18:24:02	nihilazo	current test suite: running the daringfireball markdown test suite through it and then reading if the output looks good enough
2020-11-10 18:25:17	acdw	haha nice
2020-11-10 18:25:48	nihilazo	soon I'm going to use the same tests but check against actual gemtext files
2020-11-10 18:25:56	nihilazo	but for now, I'm eyeballing the tests
2020-11-10 18:26:48	nihilazo	better than not testing at all, which is what I do with....all my other software
2020-11-10 18:26:52	acdw	hahahahahah same
2020-11-10 18:26:58	nihilazo	I just feel like there's a chance that other people might use this
2020-11-10 18:27:04	nihilazo	so I should at least do *some* kind of testing
2020-11-10 18:28:25	nihilazo	rn it can't handle tables or anything like that, but I'm planning to just say "don't use tables in your input" and call it there
2020-11-10 18:28:54	nihilazo	(the parser handles tables, but I cba to write a thing to render nice looking tables for gemtext)
2020-11-10 18:29:16	acdw	yeah that sounds like a toughie
2020-11-10 18:30:08		jonah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 18:40:51	khuxkm	hmm
2020-11-10 18:41:01	khuxkm	what should the default format coming out of my proxy be on Gemini
2020-11-10 18:41:23	khuxkm	I mean, the HTML output is well-behaved enough, but no gemini client will actually just straight up render the HTML
2020-11-10 18:41:52	khuxkm	My choices are HTML, AZW3, MOBI, EPUB, or PDF
2020-11-10 18:42:20	khuxkm	I don't really want to do PDF, since the PDF render is kinda coocoo at times
2020-11-10 18:43:45	nihilazo	y'know, idk why I want tests
2020-11-10 18:43:50	nihilazo	let's just let this thing break in production
2020-11-10 18:43:56	nihilazo	writing tests is too difficult
2020-11-10 18:43:59	nihilazo	:D
2020-11-10 18:46:41	acdw	khuxkm: maybe... epub?
2020-11-10 18:46:49	acdw	why not gemtext?
2020-11-10 18:48:04	khuxkm	right, because it's going to be easy to convert HTML -> Markdown -> gemtext :P
2020-11-10 18:48:09	khuxkm	brb gotta go to study hall
2020-11-10 18:48:51	nihilazo	I'm writing markdown -> gemtext rn
2020-11-10 18:49:11	acdw	just .. html->gemtext?
2020-11-10 18:49:15	▬▬▶	jonah_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 18:51:23	khuxkm	can you do that?
2020-11-10 18:51:44	khuxkm	also gemtext lacks table support, which means I'd need to convert the table of stats/info at the top to gemtext
2020-11-10 18:51:47	khuxkm	could be done
2020-11-10 18:52:12	khuxkm	for right now I'm going to make the output EPUB format by default, but I'll try and write a gemtext converter eventually
2020-11-10 18:52:26	khuxkm	p/2
2020-11-10 18:52:27	khuxkm	woops
2020-11-10 18:53:12	acdw	k
2020-11-10 18:53:33		jonah_ has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-10 18:54:12	khuxkm	quick question: what's supposed to happen if you have a link line with a query in it? (i.e; `./list.cgi?Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog`)
2020-11-10 18:54:32	acdw	what's suppsoed to happen where?
2020-11-10 18:54:54	khuxkm	like, I have a link line
2020-11-10 18:55:03	acdw	right
2020-11-10 18:55:20	khuxkm	=> ./list.gmi?Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog%20-%20All%20Media%20Types Sonic
2020-11-10 18:55:24	khuxkm	there's an example
2020-11-10 18:55:46	khuxkm	when I attempt to follow that link line from the vulpes proxy it leaves off the query
2020-11-10 18:55:49	khuxkm	is that intended?
2020-11-10 18:55:53	acdw	oh that's a bug i think
2020-11-10 18:56:14	acdw	tho-- is the list.gmi a cgi script?
2020-11-10 18:56:24	acdw	b/c idk what it would do with the query if it isn't
2020-11-10 18:56:24	khuxkm	yes
2020-11-10 18:56:49	★	khuxkm loads up amfora
2020-11-10 18:57:23	khuxkm	amfora gives an uninformative CGI error
2020-11-10 18:57:27	khuxkm	"CGI Error!"
2020-11-10 18:57:31	acdw	like 52?
2020-11-10 18:57:32	ddevault	I just want you guys to know that if any of your clients start requesting /favicon.ico, I'm going to start blackholing your IP addresses
2020-11-10 18:57:32	acdw	or whatev
2020-11-10 18:57:40	acdw	lol ddevault 
2020-11-10 18:57:55	acdw	the spec is favicon.txt, aCtUaLly
2020-11-10 18:58:03	acdw	with a *single* emojo
2020-11-10 18:58:28	ddevault	or I'll just feed /dev/urandom into your connection, forever
2020-11-10 18:58:45	acdw	khuxkm: I'm guessing that (1) your link line example is typo'd as list.gmi b/c earlier you have link.cgi
2020-11-10 18:58:52	acdw	and (2) maybe it's not chmod +x ?
2020-11-10 18:59:00	khuxkm	?
2020-11-10 18:59:03	acdw	ddevault: that sounds like a neat use-case actually
2020-11-10 18:59:07	khuxkm	oh
2020-11-10 18:59:08	khuxkm	no
2020-11-10 18:59:10	acdw	i think we need another status code for that
2020-11-10 18:59:12	boringcactus	is gmnisrv going to add a FuckThesePeopleInParticular config option to do that then
2020-11-10 18:59:18	acdw	like 27 O So Random
2020-11-10 18:59:21		alex11 has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-10 18:59:29	khuxkm	that's just me forgetting what extension I used
2020-11-10 18:59:36	khuxkm	and yes it is in fact CGI
2020-11-10 18:59:44	khuxkm	s/CGI/chmod +x/
2020-11-10 19:00:09	acdw	hm then idk
2020-11-10 19:02:25	khuxkm	ah the script itself was borked
2020-11-10 19:03:44	acdw	ah
2020-11-10 19:03:49		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-10 19:09:29	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 19:14:17	khuxkm	alright it's in a format I feel comfortable sharing
2020-11-10 19:14:25	khuxkm	gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/ao3proxy/
2020-11-10 19:29:21	nihilazo	should I make my gemini thingy put newlines around headers?
2020-11-10 19:29:26	nihilazo	around ##s and ###s
2020-11-10 19:29:43	nihilazo	like, have a blank line above and below them
2020-11-10 19:29:52	nihilazo	it is something some people seem to do and others don't
2020-11-10 19:29:54	ddevault	define thingy
2020-11-10 19:30:09	nihilazo	markdown converter that probably only I will ever use
2020-11-10 19:30:16	ddevault	you should probably put newlines in
2020-11-10 19:31:39	nihilazo	also, I'm not sure how best to deal with markdown's nested lists, rn they are buggy
2020-11-10 19:31:53	ddevault	I general I advise against converting from $format to gemtext at all
2020-11-10 19:31:55	ddevault	for reasons like this
2020-11-10 19:32:02	ddevault	it takes editorial discretion to make calls like that
2020-11-10 19:32:11	ddevault	and gemtext shouldn't be a second-class citizen
2020-11-10 19:32:28	nihilazo	yeah, true. I feel like the better move is to use gemtext as my input format
2020-11-10 19:32:50	nihilazo	and then convert that into html for the web version
2020-11-10 19:33:50	nihilazo	(well, a slightly modified gemtext that supports relative links and tags, although I was using a slightly modified markdown in the first place)
2020-11-10 19:34:00	ddevault	personally I write two versions
2020-11-10 19:34:26	nihilazo	I'm too lazy to do that, because I suck. But it is certainly the best way to go
2020-11-10 19:34:58	khuxkm	well in my case I can't treat gemtext as a first-class citizen; AO3 doesn't support gemtext as a download format
2020-11-10 19:36:05	nihilazo	the main thing is that I'd lose the editor tools I use for markdown if I moved to writing gemtext as my input format, but basically all I use of those (large amount of) editor tools is the ability to follow links in my editor
2020-11-10 19:36:16	nihilazo	which would be very easy to do
2020-11-10 19:36:28	nihilazo	(I think vim even has something like that built in?)
2020-11-10 19:36:44	khuxkm	well I mean you can treat gemtext as just weird markdown syntax
2020-11-10 19:36:50	ddevault	there is a gemtext plugin
2020-11-10 19:37:02	ddevault	https://tildegit.org/sloum/gemini-vim-syntax
2020-11-10 19:37:10	ddevault	I also set the following https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/dotfiles/tree/master/.vimrc#L126
2020-11-10 19:38:40	nihilazo	y'know now I think about it, I use basically no vimwiki features except what can be done with just "gf" in vim
2020-11-10 19:38:43	nihilazo	why am I still using it
2020-11-10 19:39:49	▬▬▶	wangofett has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 19:40:23	nihilazo	that feels like the best idea, for my website (probably going to stick to vimwiki for other stuff) but now I feel like my markdown thing is a waste of development effort
2020-11-10 19:49:02	nihilazo	and converting gemtext to HTML should be super easy given that gemtext is line oriented
2020-11-10 19:49:35	ddevault	you could go as far as to serve up your HTML site from kineto
2020-11-10 19:52:10	nihilazo	I think I'll probably write in gemtext, use a thing to deal with tags and stuff, then convert that to HTML (with some added stuff like a navbar that web users want for some reason) and just publish it to gemini
2020-11-10 19:52:24	nihilazo	the HTML hosting I have is only static so I couldn't really use kineto
2020-11-10 19:56:55	nihilazo	I wonder what the best way to do tags in a gemini file is. I kinda don't want to write front-matter on my gemtext. Maybe I'll do what I did with markdown which was :tag1:tag2: as the first line in the file
2020-11-10 19:57:52	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 19:58:04	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 19:59:38	kensanata	nihilazo: How about using #tag (no space)
2020-11-10 19:59:55	kensanata	Wasn't there a proposal for tagging things like that in Gopher...
2020-11-10 20:00:28	nihilazo	no doubt there was. I think these tags might end up getting removed in the output, this is for the sake of generating tag pages
2020-11-10 20:00:36	nihilazo	like I have on gemini://breadpunk.club/~bagel rn
2020-11-10 20:01:25	kensanata	I use the tag style I just proposed on my own pages these days, for what it's worth.
2020-11-10 20:01:57	nihilazo	I think tomorrow I'm going to write the first version of my site generator to use gemtext as input
2020-11-10 20:02:20	nihilazo	and generate html/tag stuff/rss feeds
2020-11-10 20:03:33	khuxkm	nihilazo: I just have a list of tags at/near the top of the doc
2020-11-10 20:03:38	kensanata	Better use Atom for CAPCOM, haha
2020-11-10 20:03:51	nihilazo	yeah, Atom feeds rather than rss, that's what I mean
2020-11-10 20:03:59	nihilazo	hoping there is a good go library for that because I am lazy
2020-11-10 20:04:05	khuxkm	see gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/gemlog/
2020-11-10 20:04:36	khuxkm	tbh I'm gonna do both Atom and RSS
2020-11-10 20:04:42	nihilazo	oh, that works well too
2020-11-10 20:05:02	nihilazo	and then I can just leave that in the file instead of trying to filter it out because it's also the human readable tag list
2020-11-10 20:05:11	khuxkm	just haven't gotten around to doing any feedmaking yet
2020-11-10 20:05:14	khuxkm	yep
2020-11-10 20:06:05	nihilazo	seems that there is indeed go libraries for feeds
2020-11-10 20:06:07	nihilazo	nice
2020-11-10 20:06:19	nihilazo	I guess I need to keep track of the edit date of files to do that too
2020-11-10 20:06:55	kiedtl	regarding analytics: what do you all think of a simple visitor counter that logs *only* the url, client addr/port/host/user, the client tls hash? would any of you consider that unethical? I was experimenting with a CGI analytics thing that would do that.
2020-11-10 20:07:40	nihilazo	idk. Analytics are dumb idk why you need them
2020-11-10 20:07:48	kiedtl	I'm just experimenting
2020-11-10 20:08:02	nihilazo	for gemini especially. Because it's gonna be the same few people always who, tbh, are probably also members of this IRC channel
2020-11-10 20:08:29	kiedtl	again, I'm just experimenting. It's temporary.
2020-11-10 20:08:46	makeworld	kiedtl: I'm not a big fan of IP logging, but I wouldn't say that's unethical, that's the nature of a network request
2020-11-10 20:08:56	kiedtl	ok
2020-11-10 20:09:03	kiedtl	I mean, the server logs that stuff anyways
2020-11-10 20:09:09	makeworld	But I think not logging IP would be nicer, bc it can actually be used to identify people
2020-11-10 20:09:22	kiedtl	ah, I see
2020-11-10 20:09:25	makeworld	Yeah, mine too. But if you're making the choice it's nice
2020-11-10 20:10:29	kensanata	kiedtl: Also, under the GDPR, IP numbers are personal information, more or less. 
2020-11-10 20:11:31	kiedtl	Oh. I wasn't aware of that.
2020-11-10 20:12:02	kiedtl	I was using it solely for the purpose of identifying how many *unique* visitors I had
2020-11-10 20:12:03	kensanata	Example page: https://gdpr-info.com/dynamic-ip-addresses-personal-data/
2020-11-10 20:12:44	makeworld	kiedtl: I do the same
2020-11-10 20:13:12	makeworld	Idk, again it's the nature of a network request
2020-11-10 20:13:40	kensanata	kiedtl: Sure. My position is that the GDPR is a huge drag. Will you do a privacy notice explaining how the logging is necessary? Will you enumerate the uses you will make of the number? Will you allow people to opt out? Will you allow people to delete their data? Uuuugh, all of that gives me a headache.
2020-11-10 20:13:50	makeworld	Maybe you could hash them? But I guess it's super easy to reverse that
2020-11-10 20:14:48	makeworld	If you use a salt that would be nice maybe
2020-11-10 20:15:02	kensanata	kiedtl: And you most likely won't get dragged to court. There are much bigger fish to fry. But then again, the law and regulations often match what people think is right, and so if you ask what people think of it, looking at the law is not a bad place to start.
2020-11-10 20:15:04	kiedtl	hmm. hashing+salt sounds like a good idea
2020-11-10 20:15:11	kensanata	Yeah.
2020-11-10 20:15:33	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 20:15:48	kiedtl	I don't expect to get sued, but yeah, I don't want to violate the law anyways, lol...
2020-11-10 20:16:09	ew0k	One important thing to remember about GDPR is that it only applies to organizations
2020-11-10 20:17:49	ew0k	an individual can do what they like. I am, for example, free to collect all the info I can of anyone in this channel and store it in a plain text file available on my website. It’s bad form, but not a breach of GDPR
2020-11-10 20:19:13	kensanata	It's an interesting sidetreck that doesn't change my position regarding the moral compass that the law can provide. Here's a site saying: "In the case of personal or household activities, the Information Commissioner’s Office in the UK outlines the exemption as being the processing of personal data in the course of a ‘purely’ personal or household activity…"
2020-11-10 20:19:20	kensanata	"… with “no connection to a professional or commercial activity”. Meaning that if you were only to use personal data, such as an address or name, for writing to friends or family, GDPR in this case would not be applicable to the given individual."
2020-11-10 20:19:57	kensanata	https://www.hutsix.io/does-gdpr-apply-to-individuals/
2020-11-10 20:20:28	ew0k	Concerning ethics I would consider it perfectly okay to store any and all data about visitors tonyour personal server. It’s what you *do* with the data that makes the difference
2020-11-10 20:20:36	kensanata	Hm.
2020-11-10 20:20:54	kiedtl	Honestly, I wouldn't want someone storing my sensitive personal info without my permission
2020-11-10 20:20:55	helby	funny things is, that it's bullshit
2020-11-10 20:20:58	kiedtl	even if they do nothing with it
2020-11-10 20:21:05	helby	bc. these user data re useless
2020-11-10 20:21:50	helby	it's like all thse idiots who put analytics in a web, however never make any decision - action regarding output
2020-11-10 20:22:08	kiedtl	they just want self-esteem, I suppose
2020-11-10 20:22:49	helby	no, it's like a standard to just put so much crap at web as possible
2020-11-10 20:23:10	kiedtl	well, when I first created my website, that's the reason I put analytics in there ;)
2020-11-10 20:23:56	helby	then check every day these 5 visitors and analyze it ;)
2020-11-10 20:24:05	ew0k	I agree with helby in that nothing should be saved indefinitely just for the sake of it. But if you want to count individual visitors then by all means do that for a period.
2020-11-10 20:25:29	helby	be careful there, bc. u can recognize u are only visitor of your crap ;)
2020-11-10 20:26:13	kiedtl	heh
2020-11-10 20:26:37	ew0k	helby: that’s why I don’t have any analytics on my server XD
2020-11-10 20:27:01	helby	that's good, if it's not a business
2020-11-10 20:27:16	helby	bc. low number of visitors can push to stop posting
2020-11-10 20:27:23	helby	you
2020-11-10 20:27:46	helby	but overal long term it can be the most visited piece online :) if you don't lose your hope
2020-11-10 20:27:55	ew0k	I think I have waaaaybmore visitors on my gemlog than my web page
2020-11-10 20:28:10	ew0k	Possibly three or four people
2020-11-10 20:28:23	helby	so definitely u need analytics for web ;)
2020-11-10 20:28:29	ew0k	lol
2020-11-10 20:28:51	helby	u need to know what a day in month somebody by mistake visit your web
2020-11-10 20:29:00	helby	from india
2020-11-10 20:29:13	kiedtl	lolol
2020-11-10 20:29:16	ew0k	my web site only contains a few files I link to sometimes, and some contact info for me. There aren’t really regular updates
2020-11-10 20:29:37	kiedtl	I was pleasantly surprised when I found I got 30-40 visitors a week on my HTTPS website.
2020-11-10 20:29:43	ew0k	anyways, I’m off to bed now :) night night!
2020-11-10 20:29:46	kiedtl	But that's possibly only because I linked to it from my gh prof
2020-11-10 20:29:48	kiedtl	gn!
2020-11-10 20:30:13	helby	monetize! ;)
2020-11-10 20:30:28		gremax has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-10 20:30:33	aravk	gn kiedtl
2020-11-10 20:30:47	kiedtl	I was telling ew0k good night ;)
2020-11-10 20:30:51	aravk	oh
2020-11-10 20:30:53	aravk	welp
2020-11-10 20:30:57	kiedtl	it's only about 1500 here
2020-11-10 20:31:02	aravk	gn ew0k
2020-11-10 20:31:10	aravk	,time kiedtl
2020-11-10 20:31:16	kiedtl	,w kiedtl
2020-11-10 20:31:16	tildebot	[Weather] (kiedtl) North Pole | -13C/8F | Overcast Clouds | Humidity: 96% | Wind: 13.5km/h/8.4mi/h
2020-11-10 20:31:29	aravk	try ,time?
2020-11-10 20:31:33	kiedtl	,time
2020-11-10 20:31:37	aravk	huh
2020-11-10 20:31:39	aravk	weird
2020-11-10 20:31:40	kiedtl	bitbot doesn't know the time of the north pole
2020-11-10 20:31:52	kiedtl	xfnw filed a bug report, iirc. but it hasn't been fixed yet
2020-11-10 20:32:02	aravk	that's hilarious
2020-11-10 20:32:02	helby	,w helby
2020-11-10 20:32:04	tildebot	[Weather] Area A (Bamfield), British Columbia, Canada | 7C/44F | Broken Clouds | Humidity: 92% | Wind: 3.2km/h/2.0mi/h
2020-11-10 20:32:13	aravk	,time helby
2020-11-10 20:32:14	tildebot	[Time] It is 2020-11-10 12:32:14 UTC-8 in Area A (Bamfield), British Columbia, Canada
2020-11-10 20:32:15	kiedtl	well I mean technically there's no time at the north pole, lol
2020-11-10 20:32:21	helby	I am Canada, cool
2020-11-10 20:32:22	aravk	really??
2020-11-10 20:32:27	kiedtl	,c u location south pole
2020-11-10 20:32:28	tildebot	[Config] Config 'location' set to {'timezone': 'Pacific/Auckland', 'lat': -90.0, 'lon': 0.0, 'name': 'South Pole'}
2020-11-10 20:32:32	kiedtl	helby: you need to set your location
2020-11-10 20:32:55	alex11	is there like, any security risk at all to using outdated gemini clients? surely with such a simple protocol there's little that can go wrong
2020-11-10 20:33:04	aravk	do ,config u location <loc>
2020-11-10 20:33:10	helby	no
2020-11-10 20:33:12	helby	Canada is okay
2020-11-10 20:33:16	kiedtl	lol
2020-11-10 20:33:21	ericonr	alex11: I don't think date is the matter
2020-11-10 20:33:27	ericonr	anyone can write buffer overflows
2020-11-10 20:34:13	aravk	alex11: I don't think gemini clients age
2020-11-10 20:34:21	ericonr	just hope it's widely enough used that any security bugs are apparent as user bugs :P
2020-11-10 20:34:30	ericonr	or trust that attacking gemini has little to no value
2020-11-10 20:34:35	xfnw	kiedtl: the north pole has no timezone, it just confuses bitbot because the time api is weird
2020-11-10 20:34:47	kiedtl	yes, ik
2020-11-10 20:34:51	ericonr	it's worth a lot more to just phish people on the normal web
2020-11-10 20:35:01	helby	well how is it outdated? I thought gemini was just born
2020-11-10 20:35:02	kiedtl	any security bugs would originate in libtls, no?
2020-11-10 20:35:18	aravk	not necessarily
2020-11-10 20:35:30	aravk	everything can have security bugs
2020-11-10 20:35:36	kiedtl	true
2020-11-10 20:35:49	kiedtl	I haven't implemented a gemini client, so idk
2020-11-10 20:36:12	ericonr	no matter how pretty the bytes given to you by your SSL engine, you can still screw up
2020-11-10 20:36:39	helby	openssl will have a lot of them, so
2020-11-10 20:36:48	kiedtl	for example, if you `eval` the response body?
2020-11-10 20:36:53	ericonr	that said, anyone attacking gemini users is dumb (or well, a troll)
2020-11-10 20:37:20	ericonr	kiedtl: how else would you implement calculator-as-a-service over gemini?!!??
2020-11-10 20:37:23	kiedtl	idk. I was just thinking of something that could happen to bollux
2020-11-10 20:37:39	kiedtl	ericonr: cgi?
2020-11-10 20:39:34	ericonr	well you could still use eval() in gci, couldn't you?
2020-11-10 20:40:14	kiedtl	but thats too compwex
2020-11-10 20:44:31	kensanata	as for website popularity: I think simply counting hits is not enough. The number of bot hits is significant.
2020-11-10 20:45:59	kensanata	On my site, more than 20% of hits are bots, and that's with a huuuge block list.
2020-11-10 20:47:26	nihilazo	hi, I have a request I would like to make
2020-11-10 20:47:51	nihilazo	actually I don't think it'd work nvm
2020-11-10 20:49:05	nihilazo	I'd like to redirect a subdomain on itwont.work to my gemini capsule on breadpunk but I'd need somebody who could set that up to do that bc I can't do it directly
2020-11-10 21:08:53		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-10 21:16:01	▬▬▶	acdw3 has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 21:16:39		kayw has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-10 21:18:51	ℹ 	acdw3 is now known as acdw200
2020-11-10 21:18:59	ℹ 	acdw200 is now known as acdw2k2k
2020-11-10 21:20:01	acdw2k2k	kiedtl: you said bollux? eh?
2020-11-10 21:20:34	acdw2k2k	nihilazo: also what's this re breadpunk? eh?
2020-11-10 21:20:56	nihilazo	I'd like to make like, a gemini.itwont.work that redirects to my breadpunk capsule
2020-11-10 21:21:05	nihilazo	but I can't do it w/ just what the registrar has
2020-11-10 21:21:11	acdw2k2k	oh ah
2020-11-10 21:21:13	acdw2k2k	hm
2020-11-10 21:21:19	acdw2k2k	uh
2020-11-10 21:21:20	acdw2k2k	OH
2020-11-10 21:21:21	acdw2k2k	shit
2020-11-10 21:21:31	acdw2k2k	i know what whoever did that HTTP-side did
2020-11-10 21:21:44	acdw2k2k	could you email me? acdw@acdw.net
2020-11-10 21:21:51	acdw2k2k	oh no now my email is public
2020-11-10 21:21:52	acdw2k2k	:P
2020-11-10 21:28:21	@tomasino	gemini://when.willgemini.support/?content-length
2020-11-10 21:28:22	@tomasino	haha
2020-11-10 21:28:24	@tomasino	i love this
2020-11-10 21:28:37	★	kiedtl quietly hands acdw's email address to a nigerian lawyer
2020-11-10 21:29:01	kiedtl	lol
2020-11-10 21:29:45	acdw2k2k	NOOOO
2020-11-10 21:29:53	acdw2k2k	shit did somebody buy it that fast?!
2020-11-10 21:30:14	djph	kiedtl: don't forget all the fad diets and whatnot
2020-11-10 21:30:15	acdw2k2k	who did this
2020-11-10 21:30:23	acdw2k2k	i want some credit got dang it
2020-11-10 21:31:54	nihilazo	tomasino: I get a connection refused
2020-11-10 21:31:58		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-10 21:32:02	makeworld	Yeah same here
2020-11-10 21:32:03	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 21:32:08	acdw2k2k	i got it!
2020-11-10 21:32:20	makeworld	It worked for you??
2020-11-10 21:32:25	@tomasino	i wonder if it's being worked on
2020-11-10 21:32:28	@tomasino	up/down
2020-11-10 21:32:38	makeworld	Who registered it?
2020-11-10 21:32:55	@tomasino	René Wagner 
2020-11-10 21:32:59	@tomasino	it's on the ML
2020-11-10 21:33:14	@tomasino	gemini://when.willgemini.support/?escaping  - this link specifically
2020-11-10 21:33:54	makeworld	Keep getting conn refused
2020-11-10 21:35:15	acdw2k2k	hahahaha lolol
2020-11-10 21:35:43	nihilazo	is this site working for other people?
2020-11-10 21:35:53	acdw2k2k	worked for me via portal.mozz.us
2020-11-10 21:36:03	acdw2k2k	well the once
2020-11-10 21:36:04	acdw2k2k	not now
2020-11-10 21:36:08	acdw2k2k	must be restarting the server
2020-11-10 21:36:13	makeworld	Sounds like it's down yeah
2020-11-10 21:37:49	acdw2k2k	dope af tho
2020-11-10 21:37:58	acdw2k2k	this is my proudest contribution to geminispace, the idea
2020-11-10 21:38:03	acdw2k2k	i'm an ideas man
2020-11-10 21:38:42		dacav has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-10 21:39:11	@tomasino	well done
2020-11-10 21:39:13	makeworld	Lolol
2020-11-10 21:40:32	▬▬▶	kernel_pancake has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 21:41:19	nihilazo	nice
2020-11-10 21:41:28	nihilazo	somebody is willing to pay $15 a year for the meme
2020-11-10 21:41:33	nihilazo	or they think that gemini will die within a year
2020-11-10 21:42:25	boringcactus	or they'll stop caring in a year
2020-11-10 21:42:40	acdw2k2k	:O
2020-11-10 21:42:41	acdw2k2k	never
2020-11-10 21:42:46	boringcactus	either about gemini or about the hilarious joke of just saying "never" to everything
2020-11-10 21:42:48	boringcactus	presumably
2020-11-10 21:42:59	nihilazo	when will gemini support networks?
2020-11-10 21:43:05	nihilazo	when will gemini support arduino?
2020-11-10 21:43:23	nihilazo	when will we start making "desktop" applications that are really gemini sites bundled with a browser? 
2020-11-10 21:43:25	nihilazo	:P
2020-11-10 21:43:32	kiedtl	nevermore!
2020-11-10 21:43:38	nihilazo	(although the idea of running stuff with an interface over gemini is actually cool to me)
2020-11-10 21:44:28	acdw2k2k	boringcactus: sorry :/
2020-11-10 21:44:32	acdw2k2k	oh shit
2020-11-10 21:44:35	acdw2k2k	not about me, jeez
2020-11-10 21:44:36	acdw2k2k	wow
2020-11-10 21:44:57	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 21:45:31	boringcactus	when will gemini support bLoCkChAiN
2020-11-10 21:47:24		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-10 21:47:40	acdw2k2k	lolol
2020-11-10 21:48:56	kayw	never
2020-11-10 21:49:29	boringcactus	god, there were some "Web3" shitcoin people in the Servo Matrix shortly after those Mozilla layoffs going "i think there's a future for Servo in Web3" and i was like
2020-11-10 21:49:36	boringcactus	"wait what kind of buzzword is Web3"
2020-11-10 21:49:39	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 21:49:42	boringcactus	"oh it's fuckin shitcoins"
2020-11-10 21:50:10	nihilazo	what is web3
2020-11-10 21:50:17	nihilazo	and why does it sound like a mistake already
2020-11-10 21:50:22	nihilazo	without knowing what it is
2020-11-10 21:50:31	boringcactus	it's building DeCeNtRaLiZeD web technology On ThE bLoCkChAiN
2020-11-10 21:50:45	nihilazo	oh it's blockchain
2020-11-10 21:50:47	boringcactus	like ethereum's "dapps" but even more so, as far as i can tell
2020-11-10 21:50:47	nihilazo	nvm
2020-11-10 21:50:55	nihilazo	I do not understand blockchain people
2020-11-10 21:51:00	boringcactus	neither do i
2020-11-10 21:51:10	boringcactus	but i'm getting better at recognizing them
2020-11-10 21:51:22	nihilazo	it's like, half people who just want to cash in on $NEW_TECH and half anarcho-capitalists trying to get rich quick off an unregulated market
2020-11-10 21:51:48	nihilazo	(there was an interesting article linking the rise of crypto to the rise of extreme right-libertarianism and ancaps, I'd believe it)
2020-11-10 21:51:49	boringcactus	yeah the speculators and the true believers are both insufferable
2020-11-10 21:53:02	nihilazo	blockchain feels to me like one of those things
2020-11-10 21:53:13	boringcactus	i should finish and publish that "no more append-only ledgers" post i've been vaguely planning for a bit
2020-11-10 21:53:17	nihilazo	I read somewhere that there is this ideology that everything can be fixed with tech, even problems caused by tech
2020-11-10 21:53:25	nihilazo	and blockchain feels like one of those things
2020-11-10 21:53:36	nihilazo	"we can solve everything with blockchain"
2020-11-10 21:53:46	boringcactus	techno-solutionism, iirc
2020-11-10 21:56:34	★	acdw2k2k dapps, coughs, passes the pipe
2020-11-10 21:56:57	helby	I finish with crypto after I lost my seed to btc waller :/
2020-11-10 21:57:03	acdw2k2k	oh em gee you're right nihilazo
2020-11-10 21:57:03	helby	wallet
2020-11-10 21:57:08	acdw2k2k	aw
2020-11-10 21:57:15	acdw2k2k	i was in crypto with dogecoin once
2020-11-10 21:57:17	@tomasino	3 minutes until Sci-Fi Radio 
2020-11-10 21:57:18	acdw2k2k	and also garlicoin
2020-11-10 21:57:21	acdw2k2k	both big mistakes
2020-11-10 21:57:27	@tomasino	come join #tilderadio and listen along
2020-11-10 21:57:29	boringcactus	i bought like three humble bundles with dogecoin i mined
2020-11-10 21:57:30	nihilazo	I have a little bit of vertcoin
2020-11-10 21:57:32	nihilazo	well, not any more
2020-11-10 21:57:38	acdw2k2k	wait tomasino: I thought that was ... oh it's not daylight savings any more
2020-11-10 21:57:40	nihilazo	I had a little bit of vertcoin
2020-11-10 21:57:46	helby	but relatively I used bitcoin for payments here and there and it was cool
2020-11-10 21:58:01		acdw2k2k has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-10 21:58:03	@tomasino	yeah, i might need to push this show back an hour later. it's becoming inconvenient and i keep missing my own show when i have late US-time meetings
2020-11-10 21:58:17	boringcactus	and i cashed in all the fuckin Coinbase rewards, bc there are like a half dozen shitcoins that will give you $10 worth of their shitcoin for watching videos explaining the shitcoin
2020-11-10 21:58:44	boringcactus	you need to doxx yourself to Coinbase bc anti money laundering and shit, but it's, like, 40-50 USD if you don't mind that
2020-11-10 21:58:55	boringcactus	in theory ofc you can keep the shitcoin, but. why
2020-11-10 21:59:08		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-10 22:00:07	helby	now not sure if there is more linux distros or crypto currencies
2020-11-10 22:00:17	boringcactus	the latter, probably
2020-11-10 22:06:37	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 22:07:51	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 22:08:09	acdw	well push it back past 6 CST and i can listen for sure
2020-11-10 22:18:00		helby has left #gemini
2020-11-10 22:19:11		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-10 22:47:27		bholovchenko has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-10 22:49:51		tane has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-10 22:50:53	jcowan	The South Pole, on the other hand, is on Pacific/Auckland time
2020-11-10 22:51:01	acdw	huh
2020-11-10 22:51:05	acdw	waht's the North Pole?
2020-11-10 22:51:14	acdw	GMT?
2020-11-10 22:52:11	jcowan	Nobody's there to care what it is.
2020-11-10 22:53:54	acdw	:O
2020-11-10 22:54:01	acdw	santa's there!!!
2020-11-10 22:54:39	jcowan	Not according to the U.S. Postal Service, which sends mail addressed to the North Pole to the town of North Pole, Alaska
2020-11-10 22:56:09	jcowan	1 Santa Claus Lane, North Pole AK 9905 U.S.A.
2020-11-10 22:56:16	acdw	haha yes
2020-11-10 22:56:17	@tomasino	not all of it
2020-11-10 22:56:35	@tomasino	like the rest of santa mail it has several destinations
2020-11-10 22:56:56	@tomasino	besides, everyone knows the real santa is in Finland
2020-11-10 22:57:02	@tomasino	Lapland
2020-11-10 22:57:25	@tomasino	https://santaclausvillage.info/
2020-11-10 22:58:23		acdw has quit (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.)
2020-11-10 23:01:27	kiedtl	Yeah, I can assure you there's no one here
2020-11-10 23:01:31	kiedtl	except the penguins
2020-11-10 23:02:48	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 23:03:07		acdw has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-10 23:03:07	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-10 23:04:04	acdw	tomasino; no, the real santa is in santa claus land: https://www.holidayworld.com/holiblog/2018/10/11/park-history-santa-claus-land-holiday-world/
2020-11-10 23:04:14	acdw	kiedtl no penguins in north pole
2020-11-10 23:04:19		fleeky has quit (team.tilde.chat thunix.tilde.chat)
2020-11-10 23:08:51	kiedtl	I think there should be at the magnetic north pole, no?
2020-11-10 23:10:18	acdw	that's canada i think
2020-11-10 23:10:28	acdw	wait, penguwines/
2020-11-11 00:00:20		acdw has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-11 00:14:58	▬▬▶	gast0n has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 00:22:09	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 00:30:04		acdw has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-11 00:30:35	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 00:34:59		acdw has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-11 00:36:04	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 00:39:09		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-11 00:40:23	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 00:40:24		kernel_pancake has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-11 00:41:05	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 00:41:59		acdw has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-11 00:41:59	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-11-11 01:21:39	khuxkm	>"we can solve everything with blockchain"
2020-11-11 01:21:48	khuxkm	but can you solve blockchain with blockchain?
2020-11-11 01:22:22	acdw	yes
2020-11-11 01:22:33	acdw	yo dawg i heard you like blockchin
2020-11-11 01:22:41	acdw	so i put a blockchain on your blockchain
2020-11-11 01:22:45	acdw	so you can mine while you mine
2020-11-11 01:25:21	zephryn	am i the only one who never got the blockchain hype
2020-11-11 01:25:25	acdw	nope
2020-11-11 01:25:29	acdw	i didn't get it either
2020-11-11 01:25:52	zephryn	like i love decentralization but blockchain isn't always the best solution imo
2020-11-11 01:30:17	acdw	*never the best solution
2020-11-11 01:58:42	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 02:01:46		gast0n has quit (quit: Bye, see you soon! 👋)
2020-11-11 02:36:27	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 02:36:55		acdw has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-11 02:37:21	ℹ 	acdw2 is now known as acdw
2020-11-11 02:37:35		acdw has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-11 02:37:35	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 03:28:34	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 03:46:46	kiedtl	I believe the #gemini log viewer I was working on is now fairly usuable.
2020-11-11 03:46:54	kiedtl	gemini://tilde.team/~kiedtl/irc/gem
2020-11-11 03:47:03	kiedtl	send nitpicks, please
2020-11-11 03:47:08	★	kiedtl afk
2020-11-11 03:47:26	kiedtl	I'll be back in a couple hours
2020-11-11 03:49:56	acdw	ooh nice
2020-11-11 03:50:28	acdw	ooh it's slow
2020-11-11 03:50:32	acdw	oh nvm
2020-11-11 04:00:00		avane has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-11-11 04:14:20		praetorian has quit (quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-11 04:34:28	▬▬▶	bacterio has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 04:44:05		dctrud has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-11 06:11:43	▬▬▶	Gemino_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 06:19:02		Gemino has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-11 06:19:03	ℹ 	Gemino_ is now known as Gemino
2020-11-11 06:33:59		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-11 06:45:32	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 07:07:44	▬▬▶	bholovchenko has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 07:23:18		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-11 07:31:59		alex11 has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-11 07:37:57	ℹ 	__R__ is now known as raiz
2020-11-11 08:34:05		nixo has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-11 08:34:11	▬▬▶	nixo has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 09:17:31		bholovchenko has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-11 09:26:06		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-11 09:27:16	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 09:32:19		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-11 09:39:54		rmgr has quit (quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2020-11-11 10:14:39	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 10:14:43	tane	howdy
2020-11-11 10:16:11	CoopDot	Should we include "Don't suggest adding new headers. Yes, that includes content length" in the code of conduct? :P
2020-11-11 10:22:36	▬▬▶	rmgr has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 10:29:05	ew0k	CoopDot: maybe :D
2020-11-11 10:48:49	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 10:58:19	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 11:00:05		lowkey has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-11 11:04:11	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 11:06:05		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-11 11:08:17	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 11:09:49		lowkey has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-11 11:09:58	▬▬▶	lowkey has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 11:10:39		lowkey has quit (Client exited)
2020-11-11 11:25:50	CommunistWolf	that TLS solves the "we don't know if we got the whole message or not" problem wasn't immediately apparent to me
2020-11-11 11:27:17	ehmry	i don't think there is any "we don't know if we got the whole message or not"
2020-11-11 11:27:50	ehmry	I thought the issue was "how much longer do I have to wait"
2020-11-11 11:33:29	ew0k	Yup
2020-11-11 11:33:49	ew0k	at least that’s what I thought too
2020-11-11 11:57:03		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-11 12:04:59	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 12:05:15		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-11 12:05:19	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 12:05:24	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 12:22:46	▬▬▶	bholovchenko has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 12:26:36	ew0k	More POST thoughts: gemini://perplexing.space/2020/post-to-my-wall.gmi
2020-11-11 12:56:56	acdw	Oh dope
2020-11-11 12:57:30	acdw	ew0k that's like, cursed and genius at the same time
2020-11-11 13:00:51	ew0k	I know!
2020-11-11 13:01:42	ew0k	I dislike the idea of email as POST because it doesn't offer encryption
2020-11-11 13:01:48	ew0k	or at least not easily
2020-11-11 13:01:56	raiz	time to reinvent email the gemini way
2020-11-11 13:02:55	ew0k	raiz: I've thought about it... gemini://tilde.team/~ew0k/gemini-server-to-server-interactions.gmi
2020-11-11 13:03:02	@tomasino	oh yay! you built the email to post thing! :D
2020-11-11 13:03:08	insep	the result will be irc with multilines and backlog
2020-11-11 13:03:08	@tomasino	i knew someone would do it. Woohoo
2020-11-11 13:03:16	ew0k	tomasino: *I* didn't :D 
2020-11-11 13:03:37	@tomasino	well whoever did, yay!
2020-11-11 13:03:46	ew0k	:D
2020-11-11 13:04:23	@tomasino	as per my rant the other day, it's good to see people thinking in non-web ways at solutions
2020-11-11 13:04:55	raiz	that's not what I exactly meant
2020-11-11 13:04:57	raiz	lol
2020-11-11 13:05:30	raiz	I meant a reimplementation of POP3/IMAP/SMTP in one minified universal protocol
2020-11-11 13:05:43	raiz	basically reinventing email for the modern use
2020-11-11 13:06:11	raiz	just like how gemini is a modern reinvention of http
2020-11-11 13:06:22	@tomasino	eh, but it's not 
2020-11-11 13:06:32	raiz	how?
2020-11-11 13:06:42	@tomasino	i mean, explicitly it's not in the faq introduction
2020-11-11 13:06:48	CoopDot	I have thought about that for 20 years
2020-11-11 13:07:01	ew0k	raiz: oh! A new protocol!
2020-11-11 13:07:12	@tomasino	but go on with your email replacement
2020-11-11 13:07:14	raiz	tomasino: it doesn't have to say that in the faq
2020-11-11 13:07:15	@tomasino	that'll be fun to follow
2020-11-11 13:07:24	raiz	I never said I'd do such thing yet lol
2020-11-11 13:07:25	raiz	:)
2020-11-11 13:08:59	raiz	when I stumbled upon gemini, I saw how it fixed everything wrong with http, I'd like to stumble upon some protocol that fixes everything wrong with email
2020-11-11 13:09:29	ericonr	raiz: long form IRC :p
2020-11-11 13:09:38	ew0k	If I did it I'd build it as a RESTful service on http, though. And in the same manner that I think Jessie should work: the sending server sends a link to data that the receiving server then fetches at its own leisure. That way the sender is validated through https/tls, instead of http signatures and whatever all the dns records and shit the email
2020-11-11 13:09:38	ew0k	standard is bogged down with now does
2020-11-11 13:09:50	raiz	IRC has lots of commands slow mail wouldn't need
2020-11-11 13:10:03	raiz	ew0k: oh no
2020-11-11 13:10:19	insep	ew0k: is the receiver validated?
2020-11-11 13:10:27	raiz	you dont build a new protocol be reusing another protocol
2020-11-11 13:11:27	ew0k	insep: it's authorized, as being the receiver of the unique link to the message. That can be sent to someone else, of course, but so can an email
2020-11-11 13:12:10	▬▬▶	pokes has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 13:12:35	ew0k	when I send an email to blargh@stupidserver.com there's no guarantee that stupidserver.com doesn't put that in the inbox of every user on it, or forwards it to the whole world
2020-11-11 13:13:18	insep	i don't think anyone should be allowed to read the request, maybe somehow encrypt it at least? better make it a part of a spec before someone implements it in a unsecure way :P
2020-11-11 13:13:32		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-11 13:13:35	ew0k	insep: it must always be over https, of course
2020-11-11 13:13:57	ew0k	and no relaying like SMTP does
2020-11-11 13:14:39	ew0k	I have no idea how forwarding or mailing lists would be handled, though :D 
2020-11-11 13:15:06	insep	we both are talking about jessie, right?
2020-11-11 13:15:09	ew0k	although I'm partial to mailing lists being replaced by some sort of federated forum
2020-11-11 13:15:53	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 13:16:11	ew0k	insep: oh! Almost: Jessie is for gemini, but I was saying that if I were to invent a messaging standard to supplant SMTP I would build it on RESTful HTTP on the same idea as Jessie; that the sender sends a link that the receiver fetches info from
2020-11-11 13:16:44	insep	ah ok
2020-11-11 13:16:55	acdw	Ya heard of jmap?
2020-11-11 13:17:56	ew0k	acdw: nope. Tell me more :)
2020-11-11 13:19:21	@tomasino	it's basically what you described
2020-11-11 13:19:23	acdw	I don't really know anything about it except fastmail says it's like an iteration of imap
2020-11-11 13:19:24	@tomasino	but with json 
2020-11-11 13:19:28	acdw	https://jmap.io/
2020-11-11 13:19:29	@tomasino	https://jmap.io/
2020-11-11 13:19:31	@tomasino	heh
2020-11-11 13:19:33	@tomasino	there's an faq
2020-11-11 13:19:35	acdw	Jinx
2020-11-11 13:19:43	acdw	You owe me a soda tomasino
2020-11-11 13:19:45	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 13:19:51	@tomasino	"JMAP is actually more REST-like than most "RESTful" APIs. It is stateless, highly cacheable, supports transparent intermediaries and provides a uniform interface for manipulating different resources. However, it doesn't use HTTP verbs to implement this."
2020-11-11 13:19:56	★	tomasino sodas acdw
2020-11-11 13:20:44	CommunistWolf	it's a lot simpler than imap, thank all that's holy
2020-11-11 13:26:28	acdw	Mmm soda
2020-11-11 13:28:02	▬▬▶	kiedtl|ltbx has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 13:30:16	kiedtl	acdw: yeah, the CGI scripts are written in bash... Hopefully I'll be able to port them to mksh, or even POSIX sh, at some point in the future (which should make it a bit faster)
2020-11-11 13:34:09	acdw	Hm?
2020-11-11 13:34:44	kiedtl	You mentioned that the log viewer was pretty slow
2020-11-11 13:35:11	acdw	Ooh yes!
2020-11-11 13:35:29	acdw	Sorry that was more than 10 minutes ago 😜
2020-11-11 13:35:35	acdw	Awesome
2020-11-11 13:35:52	kiedtl	thanks!
2020-11-11 13:37:54	acdw	I wonder if anyone's tried to write a sh compiler
2020-11-11 13:38:05	nihilazo	as in, compiling sh scripts to executables?
2020-11-11 13:38:18	nihilazo	you'd have to include all the programs that the sh script is calling I guess
2020-11-11 13:38:55	kiedtl	it could just call them
2020-11-11 13:39:05	kiedtl	and just compile all the built-in stuff
2020-11-11 13:39:12	insep	i think there's some shell compiler
2020-11-11 13:39:30	insep	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shc_(shell_script_compiler)
2020-11-11 13:39:42	kiedtl	huh
2020-11-11 13:39:58	insep	but it's more of obfuscation method
2020-11-11 13:40:48	insep	someone needs to do that with libmrsh
2020-11-11 13:40:49	nihilazo	I want to write my gemini thing to be like, actually better than my old one
2020-11-11 13:41:00	nihilazo	but I'm not sure what the best way to assign templates to files is
2020-11-11 13:41:23	nihilazo	especially given that basically, I want almost all files to pass through unchanged but one file have some stuff added to it
2020-11-11 13:42:13	acdw	Lol yes nihilazo
2020-11-11 13:42:21	acdw	Tho you could just do system calls
2020-11-11 13:43:07	acdw	Like a gemini SSG.?
2020-11-11 13:44:50	nihilazo	yeah kinda
2020-11-11 13:45:05	CommunistWolf	teach your server about a special file extension for templates
2020-11-11 13:45:10	nihilazo	but basically all I want to do is convert relative links to absolute links and generate some tag pages
2020-11-11 13:45:11	CommunistWolf	.gmi.tmpl or so, say
2020-11-11 13:45:21	nihilazo	and then modify index.gmi to have the tag list in it
2020-11-11 13:45:23	ew0k	is there a gemini client lib I can use in my browser? To do less coding myself :P
2020-11-11 13:46:38	nihilazo	CommunistWolf I could do that but idk
2020-11-11 13:46:46	nihilazo	I've no idea how I want things to work
2020-11-11 13:47:06	CommunistWolf	that's certainly the first hurdle
2020-11-11 13:47:38	CommunistWolf	pick an approach at random, try it out, let the experience inform your next attempt, repeat until happy?
2020-11-11 13:47:54	acdw	^^
2020-11-11 13:48:16	acdw	I like using sh heredocs myself
2020-11-11 13:49:12	ew0k	I've pondered building a gemini SSG too. But I mean... I built a shell script that updates my atom and spacewalk feeds after I've posted something... I guess that works for now even though I have to update my index.gmi manually
2020-11-11 13:49:19	insep	ew0k: there are some, see gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/software/
2020-11-11 13:49:25	nihilazo	I'm already on my first redo
2020-11-11 13:49:29	nihilazo	of my site generator thingy
2020-11-11 13:49:38	nihilazo	moving from markdown to input to gemtext as input
2020-11-11 13:49:47	insep	i need to implement qt lib for gemini :D
2020-11-11 13:50:01	nihilazo	but idk how to handle making a tag list on the index page
2020-11-11 13:50:13	nihilazo	because the main way it's navigated will be via tags so I want that on the index page
2020-11-11 13:50:56	acdw	How're your tags laid out on your pages?
2020-11-11 13:51:04	bie	you could just do it by hand
2020-11-11 13:51:37	nihilazo	could do, but managing anything by hand is effort
2020-11-11 13:51:52	nihilazo	acdw: rn they're just "Tags:tag1,tag2,tag3" on the second line of each page
2020-11-11 13:51:52	bie	ok, maybe you can't, i just see so many examples of extremely complex site generators being used for ~10 blog posts and an "about me" page
2020-11-11 13:52:00	nihilazo	yeah
2020-11-11 13:52:06	nihilazo	I think I do actually want automatic tag management
2020-11-11 13:52:11	nihilazo	don't need much more than that really
2020-11-11 13:52:13	acdw	Programmatic you'd need to loop thru all posts and extract tags, then build tag pages for each
2020-11-11 13:52:18	nihilazo	yeah
2020-11-11 13:52:24	nihilazo	and then link each of those tag pages onto the index page
2020-11-11 13:52:34	acdw	Then, just loop thru the tag directory and generate a link for each page
2020-11-11 13:52:39	acdw	Lol
2020-11-11 13:52:41	acdw	Jinx
2020-11-11 13:52:50	acdw	Awk could do that
2020-11-11 13:52:54	nihilazo	but depending on how go templates work
2020-11-11 13:52:58	nihilazo	I guess I'm thinking implementation details now
2020-11-11 13:52:59	acdw	Oh go
2020-11-11 13:53:04	acdw	Yeah idk go
2020-11-11 13:53:04	nihilazo	yeah, I've decided to use go
2020-11-11 13:53:15	acdw	I know shell lol
2020-11-11 13:53:38	nihilazo	oh apparently
2020-11-11 13:53:42	nihilazo	you can use $whatever in a go file
2020-11-11 13:53:43	CommunistWolf	go's text/template is like a really cut-down jinja
2020-11-11 13:53:51	nihilazo	so I just have to process the indexpage last
2020-11-11 13:53:56	nihilazo	and use $tags or whatever
2020-11-11 13:53:59	nihilazo	and that will be easy
2020-11-11 13:54:02	nihilazo	I think
2020-11-11 13:54:19	acdw	Wha
2020-11-11 13:54:23	nihilazo	wait no
2020-11-11 13:54:28	nihilazo	that's only for variables set within the thing
2020-11-11 13:54:32	acdw	Def build index last
2020-11-11 13:54:40	nihilazo	so I'd need to know to pass the tag list into the template
2020-11-11 13:54:50	nihilazo	this is just me figuring out implementation at this point
2020-11-11 13:54:57	nihilazo	or just have a struct for all the site data and pass that around
2020-11-11 13:55:02	nihilazo	and each thing can take or add what it needs
2020-11-11 13:55:05	acdw	You could just cat together index header, generated stuff, and footrr
2020-11-11 13:56:41	nihilazo	yeah
2020-11-11 13:56:45	ew0k	bie: In the past I've spent dozens of hours looking for simple SSGs or blogging/website software before realizing that I can just write plain html files in a couple of hours instead...
2020-11-11 13:56:47	nihilazo	I think I know how I'm doing this
2020-11-11 13:56:50	bie	are you just generating gemtext or something like html as well?
2020-11-11 13:56:55	nihilazo	gemtext and html
2020-11-11 13:57:01	acdw	Lol yep ew0k
2020-11-11 13:57:03	nihilazo	although I'm doing everything in gemtext then just converting to html
2020-11-11 13:57:09	acdw	That's super easy
2020-11-11 13:57:11	nihilazo	because html is a secondary thing. Screw the web
2020-11-11 13:57:13	nihilazo	yeah
2020-11-11 13:57:31	nihilazo	so it goes input -> templated gemtext output -> html
2020-11-11 13:57:43	bie	ew0k: lol yeah
2020-11-11 13:57:46	nihilazo	the gemtext to html could well be a seperate program
2020-11-11 13:57:48	nihilazo	idk
2020-11-11 13:57:51	nihilazo	I'm still figuring it out
2020-11-11 13:57:51	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 13:57:55	ew0k	for my personal site I eventually built a bash script that updated a menu file and pieced together a few header/footer/style templates when I ran a command for it...
2020-11-11 13:58:00	bie	depending on how complex you make the html you might not need the power of templates either
2020-11-11 13:58:03	nihilazo	because it's super simple but I want to do it in a good way
2020-11-11 13:58:04	bie	just do Fprintf
2020-11-11 13:58:05	acdw	Bash++
2020-11-11 13:58:09	ew0k	that worked really well, actually, but now I use WonderCMS
2020-11-11 13:58:13	acdw	Bah
2020-11-11 13:58:24	nihilazo	and by "a good way" I mean that I should be able to understand and extend it easly
2020-11-11 13:58:32	nihilazo	which means, currently, overdesigning
2020-11-11 13:58:35	acdw	I use my own SSG in shell
2020-11-11 14:00:20	nihilazo	I could probably just write shell and awk
2020-11-11 14:00:26	nihilazo	but I want to do this "properly"
2020-11-11 14:00:42	ew0k	nihilazo: https://notabug.org/tinyrabbit/gmi2html <-- I wrote that, and then I found a link to https://github.com/RangerMauve/gemini-to-html on the gemini page
2020-11-11 14:01:33	nihilazo	I'm probably going to do it myself but just for the sake of doing it
2020-11-11 14:01:40	nihilazo	this is also a project for the sake of doing a thing
2020-11-11 14:01:52	ew0k	I sympathize with that
2020-11-11 14:13:26	nihilazo	and hopefully this ends up being like, not a mess like the other one
2020-11-11 14:13:42	nihilazo	well, it's not super a mess but I want to do something DESIGNED
2020-11-11 14:13:47	nihilazo	if that makes sense
2020-11-11 14:13:52	nihilazo	rather than hacked together
2020-11-11 14:18:10	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 14:18:26	ew0k	nihilazo: makes total sense! I'd love to follow your progress, too :)
2020-11-11 14:24:55		tane has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-11 14:31:44	acdw	Live code stream
2020-11-11 14:36:41	nihilazo	hmm
2020-11-11 14:36:43	nihilazo	maybe
2020-11-11 14:36:45	nihilazo	live code stream!
2020-11-11 14:37:02	nihilazo	or maybe that's dumb
2020-11-11 14:39:26		kayw has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-11 14:39:36	▬▬▶	kayw has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 14:41:51		bholovchenko has quit (quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-11 14:47:04	▬▬▶	gast0n has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 14:53:47		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-11 15:02:14		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-11 15:08:03	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 15:09:47	▬▬▶	alex11 has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 15:17:17	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 15:26:55	acdw	live! code! stream!
2020-11-11 15:29:40	nihilazo	should I do a live code stream?
2020-11-11 15:29:51	tane	yeah, now
2020-11-11 15:29:53	nihilazo	I will in a bit maybe. Rn I'm trying to figure out, before I start writing any code, how I'll deal with feeds
2020-11-11 15:30:00	nihilazo	I will in ~30 mins
2020-11-11 15:30:01	acdw	do it do it
2020-11-11 15:30:06	acdw	!remindme 30mins
2020-11-11 15:30:07	nihilazo	got a podcast to finish listening to
2020-11-11 15:30:08	acdw	wait
2020-11-11 15:30:14	acdw	iooh waht podcast?
2020-11-11 15:30:21	nihilazo	oh no ross and carrie
2020-11-11 15:31:34	CoopDot	Hej. Detta är protokollet från dagens veckomöte.
2020-11-11 15:32:02	★	acdw looks up ross & carrie
2020-11-11 15:32:07	acdw	makes me think of Carrie & Lowell
2020-11-11 15:32:25	CoopDot	Sorrp. Didn't mean to paste.
2020-11-11 15:32:50	CoopDot	Sorry
2020-11-11 15:32:54	nihilazo	is there any other place for me to stream that is better or should I just use my twitch account
2020-11-11 15:33:17	nihilazo	like, does the tildeverse have a streaming service or smth lol
2020-11-11 15:35:15	nihilazo	also, if I'm doing a live stream I want stream chat
2020-11-11 15:35:18	nihilazo	lmao
2020-11-11 15:35:19	acdw	i have no idea
2020-11-11 15:35:23	★	acdw not a streamer
2020-11-11 15:35:27	nihilazo	I'll just use twitch
2020-11-11 15:35:28	acdw	there's a jitsi on tilde.team
2020-11-11 15:35:42	nihilazo	nah it's fine, twitch works, I'm already set up for that as well
2020-11-11 15:35:47	ericonr	I like streams with IRC chat
2020-11-11 15:36:14	acdw	coo
2020-11-11 15:37:06	nihilazo	should I make an IRC channel for this or is there a channel I can use for it
2020-11-11 15:37:08	nihilazo	on tildechat
2020-11-11 15:37:15	nihilazo	or just twitch chat or smth idk
2020-11-11 15:38:28	acdw	just /join #nihilazo and we'll join you
2020-11-11 15:38:59	nihilazo	alright, there is now a #nihilazo for stream chat
2020-11-11 15:46:46	kayw	I think I might make my blog gemini only
2020-11-11 15:47:05	kayw	and just use a gemini -> http proxy to forward it
2020-11-11 15:52:50	ew0k	kayw: do iiiiiit!
2020-11-11 15:54:39	acdw	do it do it
2020-11-11 15:54:44	acdw	i need a /doit command
2020-11-11 16:18:58	ddevault	the disadvantage of shilling for gemini on my HTTP site is that HN reads my gemini posts
2020-11-11 16:21:52	acdw	oh so you're all the ML "we need content-length!" ;)
2020-11-11 16:22:13	acdw	comes with clout i guess
2020-11-11 16:26:14	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 16:36:11	ew0k	ddevault: HN?
2020-11-11 16:37:16	ddevault	ew0k: you're better left in ignorance
2020-11-11 16:37:58	ew0k	ddevault: now I just want to know more :D 
2020-11-11 16:38:21	ddevault	hacker news
2020-11-11 16:48:25		khuxkm|lounge has quit (quit: RIP khuxkm|lounge 2017-2020)
2020-11-11 16:51:54	pokes	i noticed that it had been slashdotted
2020-11-11 16:52:13	pokes	but hey, it's a test of how many connections a gemini server can handle
2020-11-11 16:52:20	pokes	do you have stats?
2020-11-11 16:52:47	pokes	also, from one philadelphian to another: thanks for being an election worker
2020-11-11 16:56:44	ddevault	my server is buggy, not overwhelmed
2020-11-11 16:57:11	ddevault	and there were at least a few thousand hits, dunno, my logs rotate fast
2020-11-11 16:59:00	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 16:59:34	pokes	what server?
2020-11-11 17:02:49	insep	acdw: why do people need content-length
2020-11-11 17:08:59	insep	ah, for the progress
2020-11-11 17:09:02	insep	meh
2020-11-11 17:09:37	makeworld	I'll admit I like the idea of being able to keep the TLS connection open
2020-11-11 17:09:44	makeworld	Like being able to reuse it
2020-11-11 17:10:04	makeworld	Would be nice to have some benchmarks on the overhead it has
2020-11-11 17:13:17	admicos	if we're doing optimizations then compression should also be something to think about
2020-11-11 17:14:21	insep	+1 for compression, lz4 would be great :D
2020-11-11 17:14:32	admicos	maybe on a file-level instead of protocol level though, would make it easier to implement
2020-11-11 17:14:55	ddevault	pokes: gmnisrv
2020-11-11 17:15:04	khuxkm	alright, I'm finally getting around to filing a bug report with python
2020-11-11 17:15:16	khuxkm	(I've been busy :P)
2020-11-11 17:15:18	ericonr	admicos: how do you tell a server you support compression, tho?
2020-11-11 17:15:39	ericonr	I don't want to be served compressed data on a simple client
2020-11-11 17:16:03	khuxkm	so I added the people on the SSL Expert List to the Nosy List
2020-11-11 17:16:19	admicos	ericonr: that's the problem i'm thinking about though. getting compressed data is easy as it should have it's own mimetype
2020-11-11 17:16:25	admicos	how would the client signal compression is ok
2020-11-11 17:18:12	khuxkm	https://bugs.python.org/issue42326 i'm a big boy now (/s)
2020-11-11 17:24:06	ew0k	admicos: it wouldn’t. It’s just another file received, and it’s up to each client what to do with it.
2020-11-11 17:24:48	ew0k	khuxkm: well done!
2020-11-11 17:25:26	khuxkm	well at first I was going to ask for a CERT_ASK that would just ask for a client cert and not do anything with it but then I realized that adding a verify_callback hook would be better
2020-11-11 17:25:31	admicos	ew0k: if the server serves compressed files to a client that doesn't understand it, the usability wouldn't be great. if the server serves a non-compressed file to a compression-aware client, then compression has no point
2020-11-11 17:25:35	khuxkm	s/better/more versatile/
2020-11-11 17:26:58		kensanata has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-11 17:27:15	khuxkm	use URL path parameters?
2020-11-11 17:27:32	khuxkm	gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/compressawaretext.txt;compress=lz4
2020-11-11 17:27:35	ew0k	admicos: the client would save it as a downloaded file. Like any other it doesn’t understand
2020-11-11 17:28:13	khuxkm	ew0k: but again, that hurts usability
2020-11-11 17:29:01	admicos	khuxkm: that might work but servers that aren't compression-aware will fail then
2020-11-11 17:29:20	admicos	unless doing two requests are ok
2020-11-11 17:30:45	khuxkm	if you send it and the server returns 51 Not Found (like it should in this scenario) then you know that server isn't compression-aware
2020-11-11 17:30:54	khuxkm	then you won't make that mistake twice
2020-11-11 17:31:10	khuxkm	alternatively you could send it as a query but that precludes using compression and queries together
2020-11-11 17:31:24	admicos	khuxkm: caching the failed state might be the best option so far, yeah
2020-11-11 17:32:50	admicos	i guess it would be safe to assume the entire domain supports compression if a single compression request succeeds
2020-11-11 17:32:54	khuxkm	although actually you'd want to request the gemini resource without caching just to be sure
2020-11-11 17:33:24	admicos	the client could periodically check if compression still works (every x requests)
2020-11-11 17:33:27	khuxkm	if the request gemini://example.com/test.txt;compress=lz4 fails, but gemini://example.com/test.txt succeeds
2020-11-11 17:33:50	khuxkm	then the server doesn't know what compression is
2020-11-11 17:34:29	khuxkm	but if they both fail with 51 then chances are test.txt just doesn't exist
2020-11-11 17:36:01	ericonr	seems a bit inneficient
2020-11-11 17:36:02	admicos	a possible problem with asking for compression like that would be that it can make a precedent for more extensions
2020-11-11 17:37:51	admicos	a more specific problem with this approach would be that servers would get bombarded with requests for all sorts of extensions
2020-11-11 17:38:09	admicos	suddenly your client needs 5 requests to determine what to serve you
2020-11-11 17:38:17	khuxkm	gemini://example.com/.well-known/host-meta
2020-11-11 17:38:32	khuxkm	which enumerates the allowed extensions
2020-11-11 17:38:38	ericonr	admicos: create gemini protocol versions and binary search through them :P
2020-11-11 17:38:46	ericonr	or do that
2020-11-11 17:39:27	khuxkm	then it's just one request, that can be cached, that you can trust the server will let you use those extensions
2020-11-11 17:40:06	khuxkm	the great thing about gemini being so easy to implement is that any extensions that catch on will be ones in the best interest of the user (compression etc.)
2020-11-11 17:40:27	khuxkm	since the client doesn't have to send anything anywhere
2020-11-11 17:40:36	khuxkm	the only thing the client *has* to send is a URL
2020-11-11 17:40:45	khuxkm	any extra params or such can be stripped off
2020-11-11 17:41:36	admicos	it's easy to implement today, but what happens after extensions become more and more common
2020-11-11 17:42:10	khuxkm	none of these extensions are required
2020-11-11 17:42:13	khuxkm	none of them can be
2020-11-11 17:42:31	khuxkm	because clients can just say "screw you I'm not sending these params" and the server has no recourse
2020-11-11 17:42:53	khuxkm	you'd have to have one hell of a server to be able to convince people that they *must* send a certain set of params
2020-11-11 17:43:03	khuxkm	not to mention the 1024 byte limit on the URL
2020-11-11 17:43:20	boringcactus	well. your server could in theory just 51 on any non-params-decorated URL
2020-11-11 17:43:28	boringcactus	but that'd be. weird
2020-11-11 17:43:55	boringcactus	gotta say, reimplementing HTTP headers as MIME type parameters was bad, but reimplementing them as URL parameters isn't much better imo
2020-11-11 17:45:30	khuxkm	boringcactus: and the complaint would be "your server keeps 51'ing my requests" and not "this client isn't forwarding these parameters"
2020-11-11 17:46:53	boringcactus	gemini://example.website/index.gmi;Accept-Encoding=br&User-Agent=lagrange/0.9&Window-Size=1024x768
2020-11-11 17:48:41	admicos	to be fair if you can manage to negotiate an extension with the server (like the host-meta thing above) you can just send headers in a dedicated place in the request since the server told you it knows how to handle it
2020-11-11 17:49:00	admicos	and the entire point of the protocol is ruined
2020-11-11 17:49:58	khuxkm	but the thing is, the server would need to be able to function without the extensions
2020-11-11 17:50:11	boringcactus	well, only if it actually wanted to support all clients
2020-11-11 17:50:22	boringcactus	we've got servers that will ignore clients that don't send SNI info
2020-11-11 17:50:30	admicos	just because the server knows about it it doesn't mean it has to expect it
2020-11-11 17:50:35	boringcactus	we've got applications that only work if the client has client cert support
2020-11-11 17:50:41	admicos	a fallback codepath could definitely exist
2020-11-11 17:51:22	boringcactus	"if your client doesn't support this, get a better client" is already a thing for some values of "this"
2020-11-11 17:51:23	khuxkm	okay well the difference there is that SNI is mandatory for Gemini as per the spec
2020-11-11 17:51:35	khuxkm	and client certs are the only sensible way to implement sessions
2020-11-11 17:51:51	boringcactus	so far, it's all stuff that's actually in the spec, but if we're gonna go beyond the spec and add a bunch of nonstandard conventions who knows if that'll keep happening
2020-11-11 17:51:54	▬▬▶	kensanata has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 17:55:32	kensanata	Would the standard answer be to just use a different scheme, like people argued to use "titan" instead of "gemini" for uploads...
2020-11-11 17:55:53	kensanata	Or "gemini+compress://example.org/"
2020-11-11 17:57:13	boringcactus	that explodes OS URI handlers
2020-11-11 17:58:06	khuxkm	alright, so I have a problem
2020-11-11 17:58:14	khuxkm	I mean, I have lots of problems, but this one's a gemini problem
2020-11-11 17:58:34	khuxkm	I'm trying to serve an EPUB file over Gemini using gemserv and CGI
2020-11-11 17:59:13	khuxkm	when I manually run the CGI file with the query string provided, it spits out the header and then the EPUB file
2020-11-11 17:59:32	khuxkm	but when I request it from gemserv I just get... nothing
2020-11-11 17:59:35	khuxkm	an empty response
2020-11-11 18:02:10	boringcactus	hmm what happens if you make your CGI application print something to stderr once it finishes sending the response
2020-11-11 18:02:49	kensanata	The problem with people setting up their new servers and announcing them to the world even though they have but a single page up there and there is no clear "here be updates" part to it so I can't decide whether to add such sites to my subscriptions or not. So I don't. And that was is. When will they resurface again?
2020-11-11 18:05:11	helby	holy crap u play with gemini a lot
2020-11-11 18:06:30		helby has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-11 18:07:53	acdw	<insep>	acdw: why do people need content-length
2020-11-11 18:07:55	acdw	They don't 
2020-11-11 18:08:26	acdw	kensanata: yeppp
2020-11-11 18:08:36	▬▬▶	helby has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 18:08:38	acdw	i thought about an ANN post about gem.acdw.net, but 
2020-11-11 18:08:42	acdw	decided against it
2020-11-11 18:08:43	epoch	I liked the magnet link hack to get content-length :P
2020-11-11 18:08:50	acdw	lol twas great
2020-11-11 18:10:02	epoch	x+y URI schemes usually mean something like protocol-x over protocol-y
2020-11-11 18:10:12	boringcactus	once i get off my ass and make my static site generator for multihomed web/gemini content i'll announce gemini://boringcactus.com but until then there's no point
2020-11-11 18:11:07	epoch	> explodes OS URI handlers
2020-11-11 18:11:14	epoch	then the URI handlers need to be fixed
2020-11-11 18:11:15	epoch	:P
2020-11-11 18:11:33	boringcactus	you're not gonna register yourself as a handler for extensions you don't implement
2020-11-11 18:11:55	kensanata	I think this is a zen slap moment. You're supposed to realise "oh, perhaps that's not such a great idea because client and server implementations will explode as well."
2020-11-11 18:12:01	epoch	not handling something shouldn't cause explosions
2020-11-11 18:12:38	boringcactus	not doing anything when the user is expecting you to do something counts, imo
2020-11-11 18:12:45	boringcactus	but it's a stretch of the term "explosion"
2020-11-11 18:13:04	kensanata	I'm just going to wait here until ever request also requests /.well-known/host-meta and compressed and inlined images and sound support and more
2020-11-11 18:13:08	epoch	I was thinking things like, crash, or improperly parsing the URI
2020-11-11 18:13:24	boringcactus	yeah those would be bad too
2020-11-11 18:13:30	epoch	inb4 some implementation of URI parsing puts a space into a x+y uri scheme
2020-11-11 18:14:28	boringcactus	like. with extensions, your options are "assume the server implements it, try without it if it doesn't" and "check .well-known/bullshit and use stuff from there"
2020-11-11 18:14:38	boringcactus	and in either case now you have two requests
2020-11-11 18:15:16	boringcactus	and that's gonna burn more bandwidth than compression will save, at least for some stuff
2020-11-11 18:15:26	acdw	my thing about uri parsing is, the rfc has a regex
2020-11-11 18:15:27		ben has quit (quit: i'll probably be back soon)
2020-11-11 18:15:34	acdw	don't know how anybody does anything esle but that
2020-11-11 18:15:47	kensanata	Effectively, using different schemes is a bit like item types for Gopher: the client looks at the URL and already knows whether they can handle it.
2020-11-11 18:18:26	epoch	can email be compressed?
2020-11-11 18:18:51	epoch	oh. I think TLS might do compression itself anyway?
2020-11-11 18:19:00	epoch	or maybe I'm remembering that wrong. >_>
2020-11-11 18:19:04	ericonr	I mean, it can
2020-11-11 18:19:05	acdw	kensanata: that's what i love about schemes
2020-11-11 18:19:15	ericonr	but it's a security concern 
2020-11-11 18:19:18	ericonr	and afaik, deprecated
2020-11-11 18:19:39	ericonr	http/3 is moving to a special compression scheme for headers + usual content compression
2020-11-11 18:19:59	ericonr	or was it http/2 ? I don't even know anymore
2020-11-11 18:20:10	admicos	isn't http/3 also doing udp and whatnot or was that something else
2020-11-11 18:20:15	admicos	they reimplemented tcp or something like that
2020-11-11 18:20:30	boringcactus	yeah, QUIC
2020-11-11 18:20:41	boringcactus	it does userspace congestion control? iirc?
2020-11-11 18:20:46	acdw	http/100
2020-11-11 18:20:49	acdw	get on my level
2020-11-11 18:20:50	boringcactus	.wait is it QUIC or SPDY
2020-11-11 18:20:51	kensanata	haha
2020-11-11 18:20:51	admicos	just fix your kernelspace
2020-11-11 18:21:00	epoch	http/9001
2020-11-11 18:21:09	boringcactus	google name your shit reasonably challenge
2020-11-11 18:21:17	epoch	I think SPDY is what it was called while google had it
2020-11-11 18:21:28	admicos	didn't one of them get renamed http/2
2020-11-11 18:21:34	boringcactus	wasn't SPDY HTTP/2 actually
2020-11-11 18:21:47	admicos	quic i assume is the fake-tcp one then
2020-11-11 18:21:48	kensanata	acdw: The discussion of HTTP/2, QUIC and all that is part of what made sure I care for Gemini
2020-11-11 18:22:08	kensanata	some numbers will be forever tainted... like 9001
2020-11-11 18:22:09	acdw	lol boringcactus 
2020-11-11 18:22:17	ericonr	boringcactus: yeah
2020-11-11 18:22:21	ericonr	quic is http 3
2020-11-11 18:22:23	acdw	right!? yeah fuck http
2020-11-11 18:22:28	acdw	gemini is my new best friend
2020-11-11 18:22:30	boringcactus	but yeah admicos it's not a question of kernelspace, the TCP congestion control algorithm is defined by the TCP spec and sometimes it doesn't behave the way you want
2020-11-11 18:22:34	acdw	oh dam i need to make a tshirt
2020-11-11 18:22:44	admicos	oh it's a spec problem? that makes a little more sense
2020-11-11 18:22:50	boringcactus	for certain values of "you" anyway
2020-11-11 18:22:51	admicos	when you said userspace i thought about kernelspace
2020-11-11 18:22:55	boringcactus	reasonable
2020-11-11 18:23:02	boringcactus	that might've been the wrong term to use for it
2020-11-11 18:23:28	kensanata	I sort of liked the basic idea of HTTP. I think some of the ideas are cool. But 1.1 is already so damn complicated with all the caching. Uuugh. You just know it was designed for high performance corporations.
2020-11-11 18:23:54	ericonr	my stupid http fetcher just ignores those
2020-11-11 18:24:02	ericonr	all it knows is 'Content-Length" :D
2020-11-11 18:24:06	kensanata	Like, using the basic structure of lines with key: value pairs, I like that.
2020-11-11 18:24:23	kensanata	But then again, I also liked RSS 3.0 :)
2020-11-11 18:24:33	kensanata	http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/rss30
2020-11-11 18:25:01	▬▬▶	ben has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 18:25:01	ℹ 	Mode #gemini [+o ben] by ChanServ
2020-11-11 18:26:33	acdw	kensanata: how do i upload an image to Phoebe?
2020-11-11 18:26:56	acdw	ooh rss 3.0 looks good
2020-11-11 18:27:04	★	acdw remembers the titan script
2020-11-11 18:27:06	kensanata	acdw: Did you enable an image type?
2020-11-11 18:27:12	acdw	uhhh yes?
2020-11-11 18:27:20	kensanata	Then titan should be good to go.
2020-11-11 18:27:25	acdw	i'm like, 95% sure
2020-11-11 18:27:29	acdw	okay i'll check, thanks :)
2020-11-11 18:27:34	kensanata	Heh. Let's see the error message! :D
2020-11-11 18:29:58	kensanata	--wiki_mime_type=image/jpeg or something should do it (in case you're looking at your phoebe invocation)
2020-11-11 18:31:37	kensanata	Oh, and if your file utility doesn't identify the MIME type of the file you're trying to upload, you can specify the mime type to use with --mime=image/jpeg as you call titan.
2020-11-11 18:31:39	acdw	shit i don't have perl/modern on void
2020-11-11 18:31:54	acdw	oh yeah i have --mime=image in phoebe's thing
2020-11-11 18:32:17	acdw	well i'm runing cpan
2020-11-11 18:32:22	acdw	we'll see i guess
2020-11-11 18:32:47	kensanata	Is Void a Linux distro without Perl packages?
2020-11-11 18:33:01	acdw	idk
2020-11-11 18:33:03	acdw	no
2020-11-11 18:33:05	acdw	it has perl
2020-11-11 18:33:10	acdw	i just cpan'd and installed modern::perl
2020-11-11 18:33:12	acdw	so we good
2020-11-11 18:33:17	acdw	all this for a meme by the way
2020-11-11 18:33:18	kensanata	Ah, cool :)
2020-11-11 18:33:26	kensanata	Memes are important! :D
2020-11-11 18:33:26	acdw	where's the images go?
2020-11-11 18:34:04	kensanata	They end up in a separate folder. page/* is for pages and file/* is for uploaded files, meta/* is for file metadata (the MIME type, essentially)
2020-11-11 18:34:16	acdw	file/ that's it, thanks :)
2020-11-11 18:34:34	ew0k	You may have already moved way past the subject but regarding compression: the tcp and tls overhead is generally large in relation to the response body. Compression would gain very little bandwidth at the cost of complexity and cpu cycles
2020-11-11 18:34:34	acdw	so i'd titan --url=titan://gem.acdw.net/file/meme.jpg --token=token?
2020-11-11 18:35:30	kensanata	Uhhh. Let me test this. :)
2020-11-11 18:35:40	acdw	insep>	acdw: why do people need content-length
2020-11-11 18:35:44	acdw	sorry insep
2020-11-11 18:35:53	acdw	59 The path /file/gemini.png;size=712872;mime=image/png;token=raggedy-andy is malformed
2020-11-11 18:35:58	acdw	^ got this error kensanata 
2020-11-11 18:36:22	acdw	shit i just gave yall my token
2020-11-11 18:36:24	acdw	gotta change that
2020-11-11 18:36:34	ericonr	oops
2020-11-11 18:36:41	acdw	don't yall upload shit
2020-11-11 18:36:54	ericonr	I don't even know what software is being used :P
2020-11-11 18:37:36	ew0k	where gemini makes HUGES gains in bandwidth, cpu and simplicity is in serving less files compared to http. A geminispace capsule is generally *one* call, *one* response, and very small noise-to-information ratio in the markup
2020-11-11 18:37:56	acdw	boom
2020-11-11 18:37:58	acdw	secured
2020-11-11 18:38:43	insep	ericonr: same
2020-11-11 18:38:52	acdw	haha
2020-11-11 18:39:03	acdw	kensanata's gemini wiki: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/phoebe/tree/README.md
2020-11-11 18:39:43	ericonr	oh thank god
2020-11-11 18:39:51		helby has left #gemini
2020-11-11 18:39:53	ericonr	I read wiki and was having wikimedia flashbacks already
2020-11-11 18:41:32	kensanata	acdw: Hm, my server is rejecting the image I'm uploading and I don't know why.
2020-11-11 18:42:56	kensanata	acdw: Ah, don't use "file/"
2020-11-11 18:43:13	kensanata	acdw: titan --url=titan://localhost:1965/avatar.jpg --token=hello Pictures/Alex.jpg ⇒ 59 This wiki does not allow more than 100000 bytes per page (on my test server)
2020-11-11 18:43:21	kensanata	I really should add an example.
2020-11-11 18:45:10	kensanata	OK, gotta start cooking some late night dinner...
2020-11-11 18:45:24	kensanata	19:45 over here…
2020-11-11 18:47:34	acdw	stepping out for a minute btw
2020-11-11 18:47:36	acdw	oh okay ty
2020-11-11 18:47:51	acdw	aw eff
2020-11-11 18:48:02	acdw	stand by yall i'mma upload this dank meme and you'll see
2020-11-11 18:48:07	acdw	also 1945, that's early for dinner lol
2020-11-11 18:48:15	acdw	i usually eat around 2030 or 2100
2020-11-11 18:48:24	kensanata	Hah, when I was younger....
2020-11-11 18:48:50	kensanata	My wife works for the state and they are all early risers, and so I turned into one as well. Also aching bones.
2020-11-11 18:49:09	kensanata	Can't wait to see the meme.
2020-11-11 18:50:06	ew0k	acdw: I had lunch at 17:30, as always....
2020-11-11 18:50:16	ew0k	Dinner! I meant dinner!
2020-11-11 18:50:54	alex11	what's a mix between lunch and dinner
2020-11-11 18:50:55	alex11	linner
2020-11-11 18:51:01	alex11	i will accept my nobel prize now
2020-11-11 18:54:03	acdw	Oof aching bones
2020-11-11 18:54:12	acdw	Yeah it's a spicy meme, be ready
2020-11-11 18:54:24	acdw	Just don't go to bed for another.... Hour and a half
2020-11-11 18:54:41	acdw	ew0k: no shame in lunch at 1730
2020-11-11 19:09:12	ew0k	alex11: why not lunner?
2020-11-11 19:09:38	alex11	lupper
2020-11-11 19:10:36	ew0k	Even better!
2020-11-11 19:10:57	ew0k	lipper = lunch + dinner + suppee
2020-11-11 19:11:02	ew0k	supper
2020-11-11 19:11:16	ew0k	splelign si gdoo
2020-11-11 19:17:32	kensanata	acdw: I ended up writing some docs while I wait for the potatoes: https://alexschroeder.ch/cgit/phoebe/about/#image-uploads
2020-11-11 19:19:50	nihilazo	it seems like what was going to be my site generator has become a gemtext parser and soon HTML and gemtext renderers for that parsed gemtext structure
2020-11-11 19:20:30	nihilazo	which will be split into their own library. So if anybody wants to do gemtext to html or gemtext to anything within a go program, there's probably going to be worse ways to do it? idk
2020-11-11 19:20:44	acdw	Dope kensanata thanks! Also potatoes? Mmmmm
2020-11-11 19:20:53	acdw	So good! How ya making em?
2020-11-11 19:22:01	kensanata	acdw: Just in cooking water. They're blue ones: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaue_St._Galler
2020-11-11 19:22:17	kensanata	acdw: We're going to eat a lot of cheese with them... Got Racelette lined up.
2020-11-11 19:22:32	kensanata	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raclette
2020-11-11 19:23:06	kensanata	Yikes, that second Wikipedia image has a lot of meat on it. We just eat cheese and potatoes. :)
2020-11-11 19:27:03	jcowan	acdw: if you want ;-separated parameters, you either put them in the query (change the first ; to ?) or you escape the semicolons with %3B
2020-11-11 19:27:32	jcowan	ew0k: I designed a RESTful mail protocol as a demonstration for a tutorial on REST I gave years ago (but didn't implement it)
2020-11-11 19:28:17	jcowan	The trick is that mail servers have to POST notifications to other mail servers saying "Got mail for you".
2020-11-11 19:28:57	jcowan	that way mail never leaves the sender, unless the receiver explicitly downloads a copy (for legal purposes, etc.)
2020-11-11 19:35:09	ew0k	jcowan: exactly my thinking!
2020-11-11 19:35:38	jcowan	I was only thinking about person-to-person mail in that preso
2020-11-11 19:36:05	jcowan	mail sent to several people but not a formal mailing list should not be deletable by just one person
2020-11-11 19:36:25	jcowan	yet it's not clear when to reclaim it either
2020-11-11 19:36:44	jcowan	the whole problem of deletion / garbage collection is quite difficult
2020-11-11 19:37:03	ew0k	Yup
2020-11-11 19:37:46	jcowan	mailing lists with archives would want to make their own copies and send notifications to the list members and then reject deletions, but how is this different from spammers?
2020-11-11 19:37:48	ew0k	but it can be solved with hardlinks; each receiver gets their own link to the message, and can delete that link
2020-11-11 19:38:11	jcowan	Good point, didn't think of that
2020-11-11 19:38:32	ew0k	Forwarding is harder though
2020-11-11 19:38:50	ew0k	then you’d have to download it
2020-11-11 19:39:04	jcowan	You could tell the server to do so with a POSt
2020-11-11 19:39:07	jcowan	POST
2020-11-11 19:39:11	ew0k	True
2020-11-11 19:39:19	acdw	mmm blue potatoes
2020-11-11 19:39:40	ew0k	although, I don’t want to lose messages I’ve received because the sending server goes down
2020-11-11 19:39:43	acdw	jcowan: titan:// protocal is a bit different
2020-11-11 19:39:57	ew0k	So I’d want to fetch and store copies
2020-11-11 19:40:14	jcowan	acdw: You can't implement it using a standard URI parser, then
2020-11-11 19:40:17	jcowan	that's annoying
2020-11-11 19:40:52	ew0k	I thought the ; separator was part of the URI standard
2020-11-11 19:42:17	acdw	kensanata: FINALLY gemini://gem.acdw.net:1965/file/gemini.png
2020-11-11 19:42:20	acdw	meme
2020-11-11 19:42:28	acdw	ew0k as far as i know it is
2020-11-11 19:43:14	acdw	jcowan: ew0k: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#appendix-A
2020-11-11 19:43:47	acdw	cf ^, ; is allowed as a subdelimiter in path
2020-11-11 19:43:59	insep	acdw: i absolutely love the quality of that picture
2020-11-11 19:44:08	acdw	:D
2020-11-11 19:46:04	acdw	well i had to scale it down b/c phoebe wouldn't let me serve files bigger than 100,000 bytes
2020-11-11 19:46:08	★	acdw looks pointedly
2020-11-11 19:46:25	acdw	after i do dishes i'll patch phoebe and reupload the high-def one
2020-11-11 19:47:43	jcowan	ew0k: That would probably be a client UI feature: archive this message
2020-11-11 19:47:56	jcowan	on local disk, or Amazon S3, or what have hou
2020-11-11 19:47:57	jcowan	you
2020-11-11 19:48:06	jcowan	&@#$&*( MacBookPro keyboard
2020-11-11 19:48:36	acdw	what have thou
2020-11-11 19:48:46	acdw	have at thee
2020-11-11 19:52:09	jcowan	what hast thou would be correct Early Modern English, but nobody used it like that until 1925 per the OED
2020-11-11 19:53:53	jcowan	there is a lot of "what hast thou" in the King James Bible, but it is all ordinary questions: "And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground."
2020-11-11 19:58:21	jcowan	ddevault: You could hard-code the content of favicon.txt into your server and send it out with 21 Please cache, except oops, too much hating on 21.
2020-11-11 19:59:01	jcowan	Actually, that's really a decent use case for 21; I was only pushing 22 because the use cases for that are clear
2020-11-11 19:59:22	ew0k	I love the favicon.txt idea, but... It breaks the idea that gemini browsers should only make calls that the user initiates
2020-11-11 20:01:04	ddevault	why did I even bring it up
2020-11-11 20:01:12	ddevault	obviously someone would latch onto it and try to make it actually happen
2020-11-11 20:06:24	acdw	jcowan: nice
2020-11-11 20:06:49	acdw	oh no more ML drama eh?
2020-11-11 20:07:11	jcowan	Lagrange seems to assign favicons randomly
2020-11-11 20:08:43	nihilazo	I feel like the ML is a mix of actual discussion and people who don't realise that the point of gemini is that we don't add features
2020-11-11 20:10:59	ew0k	acdw: If the favicon idea has been on the ML it was before I joined it
2020-11-11 20:11:35	acdw	lol nihilazo  ture
2020-11-11 20:11:37	acdw	true
2020-11-11 20:11:55	acdw	ew0k: yes, michael lazar posted the spec he uses for portal.mozz.us
2020-11-11 20:11:57	ew0k	nihilazo: definitely -- coming from one who started by joining and having opinions :D It took a few turns before my web-centric head was able to wrap around what gemini is
2020-11-11 20:12:28	nihilazo	I came at gemini from a web-centric perspective too but I feel like I'm starting to move to the gemini way of thinking
2020-11-11 20:12:49	ew0k	same here, but it took a bit of getting used to
2020-11-11 20:12:53	nihilazo	I've actually found I prefer, for example, links on their own line over inline links, as a style thing as well as a technical thing. It makes document structure a lot clearer
2020-11-11 20:13:10	ew0k	I *still* lament the lack of a standard way to POST, but I don't really think it belongs in the gemini protocol
2020-11-11 20:13:19	nihilazo	I also hate writing CSS
2020-11-11 20:13:30	nihilazo	so a protocol that doesn't require me too for things to look nice? already sold
2020-11-11 20:13:34	nihilazo	s/too/to/
2020-11-11 20:13:38	ew0k	hell yes... *really* hate CSS
2020-11-11 20:14:09	insep	i like that i decide how i want to see people's content :)
2020-11-11 20:14:22	boringcactus	ew0k did you see https://git.sr.ht/~boringcactus/gemini-authoring-example/tree/main/cgi-bin/write.cgi
2020-11-11 20:14:42	ew0k	I'm pondering writing a gemlog post about caching, content length, compression and other optimizations in general... Would anyone want to read it?
2020-11-11 20:14:57	ew0k	boringcactus: no, but I'm looking at it now! :D 
2020-11-11 20:14:59	ew0k	ty!
2020-11-11 20:15:04	acdw	re: CSS, when I found this I was enlightened:https://jrl.ninja/etc/1/
2020-11-11 20:15:33	acdw	oh btw the meme is big now: gemini://gem.acdw.net:1965/file/gemini.png
2020-11-11 20:15:39	acdw	^ kensanata 
2020-11-11 20:15:58	insep	also anyone have a suggestion on what server should i use when i just want to play around with gemtext and gemini locally and not spend time on configuration?
2020-11-11 20:16:35	nihilazo	yeah, similarly for me with css when I discovered http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/
2020-11-11 20:16:49	Sario	acdw: excellent meme
2020-11-11 20:16:50	nihilazo	which is a joke site, but I did actually use it as the base for the CSS on the HTML version of my capsule
2020-11-11 20:16:57		gast0n has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-11 20:16:58	ew0k	boringcactus: basically a line editor using status code 10?
2020-11-11 20:16:59	acdw	lol thanks
2020-11-11 20:17:07	boringcactus	essentially, yeah
2020-11-11 20:17:07	acdw	nihilazo: yeah that's a good one too
2020-11-11 20:17:30	nihilazo	also acdw are you on the fedi
2020-11-11 20:17:41	acdw	i would actually love if there was a way for stylus or something to like, apply that style to pages without one
2020-11-11 20:17:43	nihilazo	I just stole your meme and I want to credit you
2020-11-11 20:17:45	boringcactus	ew0k gemini://boringcactus.com:6969
2020-11-11 20:17:48	acdw	nihilazo: @acdw@writing.exchange
2020-11-11 20:17:49	acdw	:D
2020-11-11 20:18:07	boringcactus	hm
2020-11-11 20:18:08	acdw	boringcactus: i am nervous about that port
2020-11-11 20:18:11	▬▬▶	lukee has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 20:18:35	acdw	aw no response
2020-11-11 20:18:55	lukee	good evening cult-of-gemini followers!
2020-11-11 20:19:07	nihilazo	evening
2020-11-11 20:19:07	acdw	o/
2020-11-11 20:19:13	acdw	how the heck are ya lukee 
2020-11-11 20:19:23	insep	nihilazo: nice
2020-11-11 20:19:29	lukee	not bad thanks, apart from the divorce!
2020-11-11 20:19:32	boringcactus	should be back up now
2020-11-11 20:19:50	nihilazo	hmm, I don't have a client cert
2020-11-11 20:19:54	nihilazo	does amfora not support them?
2020-11-11 20:20:03	boringcactus	you have to make one manually outside the client
2020-11-11 20:20:07	boringcactus	iirc
2020-11-11 20:20:18	jcowan	Here's a favicon idea: If the first line of a gemtext document is a single character, treat it as the favicon for this site and use it whenever the user is on the site and there is no first-line favicon
2020-11-11 20:20:29	jcowan	Servers can optionally supply a favicon
2020-11-11 20:20:45	ew0k	uhm. Anyone knows how to create client certs in amfora? :P
2020-11-11 20:20:48	jcowan	or leave it to authors
2020-11-11 20:21:13	boringcactus	you have to make it externally and then set some config options
2020-11-11 20:21:23	boringcactus	or use, like, Lagrange or Kristall or something
2020-11-11 20:21:26	nihilazo	I think servers supplying a favicon would be the best way but I don't really see why they're something we need on gemini
2020-11-11 20:22:55	acdw	oh no lukee !
2020-11-11 20:22:57	acdw	that sucks
2020-11-11 20:23:27	acdw	jcowan: obviously the solution is in the mime-type
2020-11-11 20:23:40	★	jcowan chuckles
2020-11-11 20:23:53	acdw	20 text/gemini;favicon=bread
2020-11-11 20:23:57	acdw	hehe
2020-11-11 20:24:00	acdw	quick post it on the ML
2020-11-11 20:24:42	lukee	acdw: yes, sorry that was a bit random to drop that in
2020-11-11 20:25:19	lukee	sometimes you just have to say what is on your mind when someone asks!
2020-11-11 20:25:28	acdw	no worries
2020-11-11 20:25:37	boringcactus	20 text/gemini;favicon=U+1F335 CACTUS
2020-11-11 20:25:41	acdw	and i'm glad you're okay *other* than that
2020-11-11 20:25:44	acdw	does suck tho
2020-11-11 20:25:45	jcowan	Reasons for favicons: help figure out what's going on when you have 2000 tabs open, keeps the user somewhat oriented on the source of information.
2020-11-11 20:25:50	acdw	boringcactus: taht's the one!
2020-11-11 20:25:51	acdw	perfect
2020-11-11 20:26:04	boringcactus	or 24 🌵 text/gemini
2020-11-11 20:26:07	acdw	no wait, you don't need th U+, since it's *obviously* unicode
2020-11-11 20:26:11	acdw	boringcactus: oh that one
2020-11-11 20:26:13	acdw	yes
2020-11-11 20:26:18	lukee	acdw: I managed to fix the conversation-fragment cgi
2020-11-11 20:26:20	acdw	20 text/gemini;favicon=1f335
2020-11-11 20:26:30	lukee	gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/cgi-bin/conversation-fragment.cgi?kirk=warp-speed%20mr%20sulu&sulu=I'm%20not%20sure%20she%20can%20take%20it&kirk=do%20it%20anyway
2020-11-11 20:26:31	acdw	ooh?!! lemme at it lol
2020-11-11 20:26:40	ew0k	lukee: sorry to hear about the divorce, but glad to hear that you're otherwise fine :)
2020-11-11 20:27:04	jcowan	favicon=1F595 shoudl be sufficient
2020-11-11 20:27:11	acdw	helll yesssss lukee 
2020-11-11 20:27:13	acdw	so dope
2020-11-11 20:27:16	nihilazo	idea: writing a gemini client for my ebook reader
2020-11-11 20:27:22	ew0k	boringcactus: I'll have to try it some day when I can be bothered to install another browser :P
2020-11-11 20:27:23	boringcactus	lmao jcowan
2020-11-11 20:27:29	nihilazo	problem: I have no idea how to do any more than very basic graphics on e-ink
2020-11-11 20:27:44	acdw	but we want to cut down on bytes, so it should be f=1f595
2020-11-11 20:27:45	boringcactus	oh well i'm not gonna keep it up forever bc i can't be fucked to set jetforce up as a daemon
2020-11-11 20:27:48	lukee	thanks ew0k. the hard bit is over, but it takes a while for the emotional subsystem to catch up with the rational executive function
2020-11-11 20:27:49	acdw	also base64 encode it
2020-11-11 20:28:02	boringcactus	but it's just running that cgi script i linked earlier
2020-11-11 20:28:03	lukee	acdw: yeah that would be good
2020-11-11 20:28:12	acdw	oof yeah i know those feels. when my first gf dumped me i was in a rough way for awhile
2020-11-11 20:28:18	boringcactus	so you can run it yourself with jetforce or any compatible cgi server
2020-11-11 20:28:31	ew0k	boringcactus: I can try that cgi on my own :D 
2020-11-11 20:28:33	ew0k	thanks!
2020-11-11 20:28:49	acdw	lukee: what'd be good?
2020-11-11 20:29:10	lukee	erm I thought your remark about base64 was for me, but maybe it wasnt!
2020-11-11 20:29:43	lukee	it would offer a minimal layer or opaqueness to the script authoring in the URL
2020-11-11 20:30:02	acdw	oh lol
2020-11-11 20:30:08	acdw	that's a good idea tho!
2020-11-11 20:30:18	acdw	i was base64-ing the unicode point of the emoji
2020-11-11 20:30:29	acdw	but yeah, base64 all the things :)
2020-11-11 20:34:07	lukee	generalising it a bit - have a progressive series of gemini 10 responses to build up the script. 
2020-11-11 20:34:42	khuxkm	still trying to figure out what's wrong with my CGI script
2020-11-11 20:34:44	lukee	could even do script writing ping pong with another author taking turns on the same URL as it extends
2020-11-11 20:34:55	boringcactus	yeah, for things like wiki editing you could imagine pre-filling it with existing text
2020-11-11 20:35:14	boringcactus	it would have to hard wrap at N characters to not overflow the URL, but
2020-11-11 20:35:17	boringcactus	that could be solved
2020-11-11 20:36:03	lukee	boringcactus: yes it would be limited to 1024 bytes. Long than a tweet though :_
2020-11-11 20:36:10		ComputerTech has left #gemini ("Leaving")
2020-11-11 20:36:13	lukee	:_ -> :)
2020-11-11 20:36:13	ew0k	There is a problem with long lines, though
2020-11-11 20:36:20	boringcactus	1024 minus the domain and path, but yeah
2020-11-11 20:37:15	lukee	it does raise an actual gemini protocol question. If you have a response 10 on a URL that already has a parameter, how should the client handle it?
2020-11-11 20:37:16	ew0k	A line in a gemtext document is usually a full paragraph, which can easily extend to a 1000 or more characters. When that's url encoded it'll hardly fit the 1024 size limit
2020-11-11 20:37:33	boringcactus	usually it replaces the parameter lukee
2020-11-11 20:37:40	boringcactus	and i think that's reasonable
2020-11-11 20:37:41	lukee	according to what?
2020-11-11 20:37:47	boringcactus	client behavior that i've seen
2020-11-11 20:37:48	lukee	the spec is silent on this
2020-11-11 20:37:48	▬▬▶	ComputerTech has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 20:37:59	khuxkm	https://gist.github.com/53e89a8a2c9c97448c59ef634ee26b41
2020-11-11 20:38:04	khuxkm	this is the script
2020-11-11 20:38:06	boringcactus	ew0k yeah i'd have to get creative to not explode on unbounded line lengths
2020-11-11 20:38:20	lukee	what about this url: handler?foo=bar&colour=green
2020-11-11 20:38:28	ew0k	lukee: I asked that some time ago too. Like, if gemini://foo.bar?baz returns 10, and the user fills in "nana" the new call will be gemini://foo.bar?nana
2020-11-11 20:38:48	acdw	sombody wrote a sed-style interface to a gemini site
2020-11-11 20:39:01	ew0k	if you want several parameters the user has to fill that in manually
2020-11-11 20:39:26	ew0k	khuxkm: what's the problem with it?
2020-11-11 20:39:55	khuxkm	it runs fine in my terminal but it fails to return any response when called via gemini request
2020-11-11 20:40:14	ew0k	huh. Could it be your server?
2020-11-11 20:40:25	khuxkm	idk
2020-11-11 20:40:35	khuxkm	tilde.team uses gemserv
2020-11-11 20:40:51	lukee	ew0k and if gemini://foo.bar?baz returns 10 should the client pre-populate the text field with baz to be overwritten by the user?
2020-11-11 20:41:25	ew0k	lukee: that's a good question... I don't think it generally does
2020-11-11 20:41:44	lukee	it sort of feels like a refinement step
2020-11-11 20:41:57	ew0k	well, I don't know of any case where a call with a query string would return 10, even
2020-11-11 20:42:31	lukee	well what about a series of progressive refinements in a search engine?
2020-11-11 20:42:55	ew0k	*shrug* I haven't seen it implemented
2020-11-11 20:43:19	lukee	khuxkm: it feels there is too much going on in your script to debug it - have you tried something much more miminal?
2020-11-11 20:44:00	lukee	there could be many things going wrong - does the equivalent python "hello world" cgi work on that server?
2020-11-11 20:44:07	ew0k	khuxkm: so... without having any real clue, I wonder if it finds the import. Could you try pasting utils.py into the other file? I don't know how python handles local imports
2020-11-11 20:44:25	khuxkm	no, the import works
2020-11-11 20:44:34	khuxkm	otherwise the other pages would fail
2020-11-11 20:45:15	khuxkm	lukee: it's actually less complicated than it seems
2020-11-11 20:45:19	lukee	ew0k: probably the interactive aspects of gemini are so limited, theres not much need *yet* to offer a query refinement mechanism
2020-11-11 20:45:36	ew0k	lukee: true
2020-11-11 20:46:14	khuxkm	basically, it parses the query string, makes a URL from work ID and format, and then requests the content l
2020-11-11 20:46:17	boringcactus	a sufficiently fancy client could probably let you go Back to a 1x response and populate what you already typed
2020-11-11 20:46:18	ew0k	khuxkm: can you link it to me?
2020-11-11 20:47:19	khuxkm	gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/ao3proxy/work.gmi?work=24486652
2020-11-11 20:47:31	khuxkm	that's the URL I'm using to test it
2020-11-11 20:47:55	lukee	boringcactus: yes I think it should try to do something helpful. But there is a wide variety of URL syntax being used when there is more than one parameter, and its not at all standardised (unlike say http get URL params)
2020-11-11 20:48:02	khuxkm	should return a 20 response with an application/epub+zip mimetype ot similar
2020-11-11 20:48:29	lukee	for example is it param1:value or param1=value or some other application specific syntax
2020-11-11 20:49:01	acdw	i think the URL RFC prolly has a suggestion on that
2020-11-11 20:49:42		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-11 20:49:57	lukee	maybe, but I think it is something the URL RFC doesnt care about
2020-11-11 20:50:28	lukee	the web cgi params is just a convention
2020-11-11 20:50:59	acdw	ah
2020-11-11 20:51:15	acdw	well i think ?param=value&param=value&param=value is good
2020-11-11 20:51:17	lukee	what is it - x-www-form-urlencoded
2020-11-11 20:51:19	acdw	so folow th convention
2020-11-11 20:51:27	acdw	i think that's a thing for POST ?
2020-11-11 20:51:31	lukee	but that is what the web does, so its evil!
2020-11-11 20:51:35	ddevault	there are no parameters like this
2020-11-11 20:51:36	acdw	lol
2020-11-11 20:51:40	ddevault	the query string is just interpreted as is
2020-11-11 20:51:47	ddevault	if there's a query string in a 10 response, it's overwritten with the user input
2020-11-11 20:51:55	acdw	right, there's only one query string
2020-11-11 20:52:09	lukee	yes but there is often an implicit substructure (see GUS for example)
2020-11-11 20:52:13	ddevault	you can stick more structure into it if you want, but it wouldn't work with the 10 algorithm
2020-11-11 20:52:20	ddevault	nothing like forms is possible
2020-11-11 20:52:56	lukee	not quite true, but I agree, not exactly
2020-11-11 20:53:05	acdw	a page *could* be like, 10 name? -> save name -> 10 addres? -> save address -> etc
2020-11-11 20:53:10	acdw	but that is not good
2020-11-11 20:53:24	lukee	its sort of all gemini can implement
2020-11-11 20:53:28	boringcactus	possible but only through ugly hacks
2020-11-11 20:53:39	★	kensanata is back, stuffed with potatoes and cheese.
2020-11-11 20:53:56	acdw	kensanata!!!
2020-11-11 20:53:59	acdw	did you see da meme?
2020-11-11 20:54:13	lukee	I think a hack is just a feature you don't like (beyond of course whether it meets the spec)
2020-11-11 20:54:27	ddevault	10 vipe </dev/null | base64
2020-11-11 20:54:49	acdw	| sh
2020-11-11 20:55:00	kensanata	acdw: I did!
2020-11-11 20:55:15	kensanata	acdw: Did you figure out how to increase the upload limit?
2020-11-11 20:55:19	acdw	I did!!!
2020-11-11 20:55:21	acdw	yay
2020-11-11 20:55:22	kensanata	Phew!
2020-11-11 20:55:25	acdw	good job us
2020-11-11 20:55:45	kensanata	Yeah, well... before you mentioned it, the option was simply undocumented, so... yay you!
2020-11-11 20:56:04	acdw	lolol
2020-11-11 20:56:06	acdw	awesome :)
2020-11-11 20:56:30	acdw	this weekend i'm going to play around more with phoebe to see what else i can do with it
2020-11-11 20:58:25	kensanata	Sounds good to me!
2020-11-11 20:58:28	acdw	:D
2020-11-11 20:59:52	makeworld	gemini://when.willgemini.support/?escaping
2020-11-11 20:59:56	makeworld	Ahaha it's online now
2020-11-11 21:00:04		raiz has quit (quit: EOF)
2020-11-11 21:00:27	ddevault	gemini://when.willgemini.support/?giant%20sex%20robots
2020-11-11 21:00:52	alex11	lol
2020-11-11 21:02:12	acdw	nicceeee
2020-11-11 21:02:25	makeworld	Damn it
2020-11-11 21:02:37	acdw	perfect
2020-11-11 21:02:43	acdw	(second) best meme on gemini
2020-11-11 21:04:13	lukee	gemini://when.willgemini.support/?a%20consensus%20of%20what%20gemini%20is%2
2020-11-11 21:04:37	acdw	lolol
2020-11-11 21:04:49	makeworld	Wait isn't this known?
2020-11-11 21:04:56	makeworld	Or are you referring to gemtext vs gemini lol
2020-11-11 21:05:11	lukee	huh truncated, should be gemini://when.willgemini.support/?a%20consensus%20of%20what%20gemini%20is%20for
2020-11-11 21:06:06	acdw	ha
2020-11-11 21:06:12	acdw	was wodnering about that %2
2020-11-11 21:06:13	makeworld	Ah ok
2020-11-11 21:06:18	makeworld	Yeah me %2 lol
2020-11-11 21:06:19	ddevault	gemini://when.willgemini.support/?Caesar%20Augustus%20as%20the%20rightful%20leader%20of%20the%20Roman%20Republic
2020-11-11 21:06:23	acdw	lolol
2020-11-11 21:06:29	acdw	oh em ef gee
2020-11-11 21:06:32	lukee	haha
2020-11-11 21:07:20	acdw	gemini://when.willgemini.support/?Caesar%20Milano%20as%20the%20rightful%20leader%20of%20all%20the%20dogs
2020-11-11 21:07:21	acdw	more like
2020-11-11 21:08:23	lukee	gemini://when.willgemini.support/?my%20candidacy%20for%20gemini%20BDFL
2020-11-11 21:08:48	ddevault	petition to replace the term BDFL with BAMF going forward
2020-11-11 21:08:58	lukee	BAMF?
2020-11-11 21:09:03	ddevault	badass motherfucker
2020-11-11 21:09:22	lukee	we can all be one of those
2020-11-11 21:09:52	kevinsan	lukee: who are you trying to kid, ddevault would out-BAMF you any day of the week
2020-11-11 21:10:11	lukee	I didnt realise it was a zero sum competition?
2020-11-11 21:10:18	kevinsan	have you seen his issue trackers?
2020-11-11 21:10:26	acdw	hell yes
2020-11-11 21:10:28	acdw	petition signed
2020-11-11 21:10:39	acdw	hmmm idk
2020-11-11 21:10:42	acdw	i'm pretty bamfy
2020-11-11 21:10:50	lukee	you are too acdw
2020-11-11 21:11:17	acdw	hehe
2020-11-11 21:11:25	acdw	we're like the diumvirate
2020-11-11 21:11:39	kevinsan	i'll be honest, i'm a conflict-avoiding wimp :)
2020-11-11 21:11:51	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 21:12:00	acdw	aw me too tbh
2020-11-11 21:12:05	kevinsan	i'd just say yes to everyone, and then pull the plug on my wifi
2020-11-11 21:12:09	ddevault	weakly interacting massive particle?
2020-11-11 21:12:11	boringcactus	you can have a multi-BAMF model
2020-11-11 21:12:12	ddevault	fits the description
2020-11-11 21:12:16	boringcactus	but not a multi-BDFL model
2020-11-11 21:12:23	kevinsan	i'm a neutrino!
2020-11-11 21:12:54	acdw	aww
2020-11-11 21:13:05	acdw	you pass thru billions of times a secnd and are barely noticed?
2020-11-11 21:13:16	kevinsan	yup, sounds about right
2020-11-11 21:13:37	acdw	aw
2020-11-11 21:13:37	kevinsan	they built kamiokande just to confirm my existence
2020-11-11 21:13:40	acdw	well *i* notice you
2020-11-11 21:13:42	acdw	:P
2020-11-11 21:13:53	kensanata	Heh
2020-11-11 21:14:25	kevinsan	i'll be honest again - i have had people literally laugh in my face when i (sincerely) claimed i was shy.
2020-11-11 21:14:56	kensanata	I'm skimming the Gopher world... ended up reading the reports of a person in an asylum. The smolnet is bigger than one might thing. Perhaps it's more like the fognet. You can't see very far.
2020-11-11 21:15:02	lukee	we are all surely multi-faceted kevinsan
2020-11-11 21:15:12	kevinsan	which means i could be a BAMF, but not even realise it. arrogant to a fault. i'd be your worst nightmare :)
2020-11-11 21:16:23	kevinsan	kensanata: were the reports written by the asulum resident?
2020-11-11 21:18:32	acdw	that sucks kevinsan 
2020-11-11 21:18:37	acdw	like, why would you do that
2020-11-11 21:18:58	kevinsan	do what? i haven't done it YET?!!
2020-11-11 21:19:24	acdw	wut
2020-11-11 21:19:35	acdw	why would someone laff at you for being shy i mean
2020-11-11 21:20:39	kensanata	kevinsan: yes
2020-11-11 21:20:40	kevinsan	oh, that's way back - they see me as anything but shy. how i present != how i feel, it seems
2020-11-11 21:21:04	acdw	oh i got ya
2020-11-11 21:21:28	kensanata	Is there a feed for tanelorn.city? All I can find is a feed for the announcements
2020-11-11 21:22:18	kevinsan	i got a ton of work to do :(
2020-11-11 21:22:34	kevinsan	so, i'll probably be on IRC quite a lot :)
2020-11-11 21:22:50	▬▬▶	lukee_ has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 21:23:21	acdw	haha sammemmememe
2020-11-11 21:25:47	▬▬▶	unleet has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 21:26:06		lukee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-11 21:26:24	kensanata	I recently discovered that work has opened their firewall a bit again, so from the office laptop I can go on to Freenode but not on Tilde Chat
2020-11-11 21:26:41	★	kensanata gets up and pulls tomorrow's bread out of the oven
2020-11-11 21:27:14	acdw	ooh
2020-11-11 21:27:19	acdw	oh yes bread
2020-11-11 21:27:21	acdw	what kind kensanata ?
2020-11-11 21:29:04	kensanata	Uhhhh... the regular kind? I don't know how you'd translate the stuff into English. Sourdough? With … 150g starter, 200g regular flour that is 10% spelt (?) and 100g … uh, brown flour or whatever you'd call it? Integral? 
2020-11-11 21:29:20	acdw	whole wheat probs
2020-11-11 21:29:26	acdw	like, the whole kernel?
2020-11-11 21:29:33	acdw	spelt is a thing yes :)
2020-11-11 21:29:39	kensanata	Heh.
2020-11-11 21:29:44	kensanata	Whole wheat, yeah
2020-11-11 21:29:47	acdw	lol @ the regular kind tho. you're right for.... about 99% of human history
2020-11-11 21:29:55	kensanata	https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-10-18_Making_Bread has some pictures of what it usually looks like
2020-11-11 21:30:14	acdw	i bet it's better than our whole wehat --- a lot of companies separate the germ from the hull then add it back for whole wheat flour
2020-11-11 21:30:20	acdw	so it's not *really* whole wheat
2020-11-11 21:30:35	kensanata	Hm. I actually don't know how they produce it.
2020-11-11 21:31:02	acdw	that is some good bread
2020-11-11 21:31:09	acdw	you ever think of joining us on breadpunk?
2020-11-11 21:31:22	acdw	if you haven't----on problem with all the bread names is i forget who pepole are really
2020-11-11 21:31:24	kensanata	I did!
2020-11-11 21:31:28	acdw	lol
2020-11-11 21:31:31	acdw	awesome
2020-11-11 21:31:37	acdw	like i said
2020-11-11 21:31:55	tane	acdw, is the bread related name constraint still valid then? :)
2020-11-11 21:31:55	kensanata	I guess I'll just cheer from afar, haha.
2020-11-11 21:32:05	acdw	haha yse
2020-11-11 21:32:10	kensanata	I don't post enough bread content.
2020-11-11 21:32:16	acdw	that's okay! I don't either
2020-11-11 21:32:20	kensanata	Haha
2020-11-11 21:32:28	kensanata	I wonder what my bread name would be.
2020-11-11 21:32:47	acdw	wait i thought you joined us?
2020-11-11 21:33:00	tane	xD
2020-11-11 21:33:04	tane	now that's overview
2020-11-11 21:33:31	kensanata	I should probably cally myself Spelt.
2020-11-11 21:34:14	acdw	oooh 
2020-11-11 21:34:27	kensanata	acdw: Ah, no. Sorry. I wanted to say: yes, I did think of joining you on breadpunk. Too literally minded, bloody programmers.
2020-11-11 21:34:29	acdw	yeah that's not taken
2020-11-11 21:34:36	acdw	lolol
2020-11-11 21:34:37	acdw	no worries
2020-11-11 21:34:45	acdw	 can you get me a dozen eggs and  milk later ?
2020-11-11 21:34:47	acdw	:P
2020-11-11 21:35:03	kensanata	Heh
2020-11-11 21:35:40	kensanata	Now I keep thinking about this lullaby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backe,_backe_Kuchen
2020-11-11 21:36:00	kensanata	"Bake a cake, bake a cake, The baker has called. Whoever wants to bake a good cake, must have seven things, Eggs and lard, Sugar and salt, Milk and flour. Saffron makes the cake yellow Push it into the oven."
2020-11-11 21:36:11	kensanata	Sounds like the most terrible cake ever.
2020-11-11 21:36:54	@tomasino	oh, i think i have a video of that tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5KxZ5Lc_YA
2020-11-11 21:37:09	@tomasino	oh, alex, i had a question for you the other day
2020-11-11 21:37:13	@tomasino	what was it now...
2020-11-11 21:37:14	ddevault	that cake just sounds like cake
2020-11-11 21:37:14	@tomasino	hmmmm
2020-11-11 21:37:18	acdw	that sounds like patty cake kensanata 
2020-11-11 21:37:24	ddevault	saffron is a bit weird but a small amount wouldn't taste weird
2020-11-11 21:37:31	acdw	sounds like pound cake honestly
2020-11-11 21:37:47	kensanata	I keep thinking about the lard in that cake.
2020-11-11 21:37:49	ddevault	have you ever made a cake, kensanata 
2020-11-11 21:37:51	@tomasino	mmm, lard
2020-11-11 21:37:52	acdw	lard is just fat
2020-11-11 21:37:56	ddevault	^
2020-11-11 21:37:57	acdw	tasty, death fat
2020-11-11 21:38:03	kensanata	Ah, it's not bacon?
2020-11-11 21:38:03	ddevault	basically equivalent to putting in butter
2020-11-11 21:38:09	acdw	i think it's actually pretty neutral tasting, even more so than butter
2020-11-11 21:38:14	ddevault	it is, yeah
2020-11-11 21:38:18	ddevault	but butter tastes good :3
2020-11-11 21:38:21	kensanata	Heh
2020-11-11 21:38:26	@tomasino	not bacon, no... just fat. you can use different types of animal fat for the lard too
2020-11-11 21:38:32	acdw	omg of course that song is from lazy town tomasino 
2020-11-11 21:38:34	@tomasino	but... bacon in chocolate chip cookies is surprisingly awesome
2020-11-11 21:38:43	kensanata	aaaaaargh
2020-11-11 21:38:56	acdw	so how many days of national morning did yall have when the lazy guy died?
2020-11-11 21:39:04	acdw	also lol i was NOT expecting lil jon
2020-11-11 21:39:04	@tomasino	too soon. still not over
2020-11-11 21:39:10	acdw	aw
2020-11-11 21:39:12	acdw	sorry
2020-11-11 21:39:13	kensanata	I was a vegetarian for twenty years and I don't want the taste death fat all over my caaaaaaake
2020-11-11 21:39:16	ddevault	who died?
2020-11-11 21:39:17	acdw	did you know him?
2020-11-11 21:39:24	acdw	the guy who was Robbie Rotten on LazyTown
2020-11-11 21:39:29	ddevault	oh :/
2020-11-11 21:39:34	@tomasino	the villain
2020-11-11 21:39:34	acdw	I ask b/c everyone in Iceland knows each other
2020-11-11 21:39:34	@tomasino	cancer
2020-11-11 21:39:43	acdw	really bad cancer too, right?
2020-11-11 21:39:43	ddevault	everyone in iceland is actually the same person
2020-11-11 21:39:46	@tomasino	i didn't get to meet him
2020-11-11 21:39:47	acdw	wha
2020-11-11 21:39:48	ddevault	his name is john
2020-11-11 21:39:49	@tomasino	yeah, really bad
2020-11-11 21:39:51	acdw	they're all tomasino 
2020-11-11 21:39:52	ddevault	john iceland
2020-11-11 21:39:58	★	tomasino waves
2020-11-11 21:40:09	★	tomasino checks his logs to remember what he wanted to ask kensanata
2020-11-11 21:40:14	acdw	yeah it was actually really sad and then .. it was like, a meme? so that was weird
2020-11-11 21:40:24	kensanata	The unasked questions are the hardest to answer.
2020-11-11 21:41:20		unleet has quit (quit: https://web.tilde.chat - thelounge)
2020-11-11 21:41:51	kensanata	More english terminology: what do you call the metal thing here: https://alexschroeder.ch/gallery/2020-bread/#15
2020-11-11 21:42:04	ddevault	dohickey
2020-11-11 21:42:20	ddevault	doohickey*
2020-11-11 21:42:21	@tomasino	nope, no luck. can't find it
2020-11-11 21:42:24	acdw	okay (1) that's my favorite picture
2020-11-11 21:42:26	kensanata	37 Moby Thesaurus words for "dohickey"...  wow, haha
2020-11-11 21:42:29	acdw	and (2) a bread loaf pan
2020-11-11 21:42:32	acdw	or loaf pan
2020-11-11 21:42:37	@tomasino	loaf pan, yeah
2020-11-11 21:42:37	acdw	b/c it holds a loaf
2020-11-11 21:42:44	acdw	as opposed to pie pan or sauce pan
2020-11-11 21:42:48	kensanata	acdw: So a pan doesn't have to be round and flat, like a... a pan?
2020-11-11 21:42:53	@tomasino	nope
2020-11-11 21:43:13	@tomasino	https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&q=loaf+pan
2020-11-11 21:43:25	acdw	nope
2020-11-11 21:43:29	kensanata	The round flat thing is a "frying pan" and everything else is what I'd translate as a "pot"...
2020-11-11 21:43:34	acdw	a pan is pretty much anything you get hot to cook things
2020-11-11 21:43:43	kensanata	Ah, excellent.
2020-11-11 21:43:45	@tomasino	there's not a lot of logic to it
2020-11-11 21:43:49	acdw	yeah, that's also a pot
2020-11-11 21:43:58	acdw	tho sometimes people only call the ones w/o handles pots
2020-11-11 21:44:14	ddevault	cookware names are not particularly well standardized
2020-11-11 21:44:22	acdw	I think "pots and pans" is less to include everytihing and more to just ... gesture at everying
2020-11-11 21:44:24	kensanata	Yeah, but you know how it is with foreign languages. It always gets tricky when you get to the actual specifics, when there is no more wriggle room
2020-11-11 21:44:43	ddevault	I wouldn't call the round flat thing a frying pan
2020-11-11 21:44:46	ddevault	needs a lip
2020-11-11 21:44:48	ddevault	I'd call it a doohickey
2020-11-11 21:44:52	@tomasino	pots are almost always circular while pans are more often rectangular in the us, with some notable exceptions like pizza 
2020-11-11 21:45:01	ddevault	...rectangular? what?
2020-11-11 21:45:06	ddevault	oh, like sheet pans, maybe
2020-11-11 21:45:13	@tomasino	yep
2020-11-11 21:45:21	ddevault	bakeware != cookware
2020-11-11 21:45:30	@tomasino	it's a mess of terminology
2020-11-11 21:46:16	lukee_	what we need is ....
2020-11-11 21:46:21	kensanata	Heh. The big rectangular things that go into the oven with cookies on them are just "baking sheet metal" if you translate it literally from German, I think
2020-11-11 21:46:26	lukee_	an RFC standard to sort it out :)
2020-11-11 21:47:22	acdw	telling ya, pan is just metal cook thing
2020-11-11 21:47:33	acdw	kensanata: what's the german?
2020-11-11 21:47:36	acdw	that's hilaroius
2020-11-11 21:47:41	acdw	OH they are called baking sheets sometimes
2020-11-11 21:47:57	tane	backblech is the word I guess
2020-11-11 21:48:07	acdw	huh neat
2020-11-11 21:48:28	kensanata	Backblech
2020-11-11 21:48:35	acdw	awesoem! let's call it that
2020-11-11 21:49:26	kensanata	So I went through the sites in https://cmpwn.com/@sir/105127171878166117 and I wasn't too impressed. People need to write stuff, not install servers!
2020-11-11 21:49:46	ddevault	maybe give them more than a week and a half to do it
2020-11-11 21:49:47	kensanata	Then again, it took me a while until I understood tomasino's wisdom. He said that right from start.
2020-11-11 21:49:52	ddevault	check out CAPCOM if you want already developed sites
2020-11-11 21:50:01	ddevault	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/capcom/
2020-11-11 21:50:03	kensanata	I know, I'm looking for new sites.
2020-11-11 21:50:40	@tomasino	:D!
2020-11-11 21:50:42	@tomasino	i got wisdoms
2020-11-11 21:52:19	@tomasino	content++
2020-11-11 21:52:39	kensanata	Yeah. It took me a while, but now I see that you're right.
2020-11-11 21:53:00	lukee_	kensanata: another place to hunt for new sites is gemini://gus.guru/newest-hosts
2020-11-11 21:53:37	kevinsan	i think the word everyone is looking for is 'tin' a 'loaf tin'
2020-11-11 21:53:40	★	lukee_ is slightly sad the list is only 10 long
2020-11-11 21:54:37	kevinsan	lukee_: i think natpen limits that list to 10, no?
2020-11-11 21:54:55	kensanata	lukee_: Ah, good point. I should add that page.
2020-11-11 21:54:59	@tomasino	gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/hundredrabbits looks interesting
2020-11-11 21:55:31	lukee_	yes, which is generally fine, but there was a big backlog from the end of sept, but most got masked by the last 10 entries when they got crawled by GUS
2020-11-11 21:57:33	lukee_	some fun polemic stuff on e-worm.club appeared recently
2020-11-11 21:59:58	@tomasino	i appreciate communities that publish into gemini (like cosmic). I wish there was more _ONLY_ gemini stuff coming on board. Not HTML sites proxied, not dual published, just gemini
2020-11-11 22:00:07	lukee_	about how all the alternatives to the classical social media just ends up aping the same UI and makes the same assumptions about likes/votes to determine currency
2020-11-11 22:00:23	@tomasino	even on your thread, ddevault, people were already talking about adding http versions to their stuff
2020-11-11 22:00:59	ddevault	what thread?
2020-11-11 22:01:12	@tomasino	the fedi post & replies
2020-11-11 22:01:15	ddevault	ah
2020-11-11 22:01:17	lukee_	tomasino: I personally dont see any problem with dual posting. Let them taste the gateway drug, then we get them hooked on discussion about content escaping and header fields
2020-11-11 22:01:54	@tomasino	it's better than nothing, but if stuff is just available on the web there's not a lot of reason to get in the habit of opening up a gemini browser
2020-11-11 22:02:21	lukee_	I dont see it like that, I think we need to provide a smooth on-ramp for some
2020-11-11 22:02:22	ddevault	my HN portal has been working well enough that I'm using it instead of the web version
2020-11-11 22:02:31	ddevault	it's a lot better to have a consistent reading experience for every article
2020-11-11 22:02:49	ddevault	I think that there's some value in things being available on both for reasons like that
2020-11-11 22:02:50	ddevault	it helps gemini too
2020-11-11 22:03:32	@tomasino	it helps you not have to leave to get at stuff you like, but it doesn't have the same power to draw in folks 
2020-11-11 22:03:45	@tomasino	better than nothing, definitely
2020-11-11 22:03:46	lukee_	do we want the gemini vibe to be "we are a cool exclusionary club"
2020-11-11 22:03:54	ddevault	there was a github article today that requires javascript to read, but works great with web.sh over gemini
2020-11-11 22:04:05	@tomasino	i want gemini to have a vibe that's more than "here's the text only version of my website"
2020-11-11 22:04:06	lukee_	(I'm exaggerating for effect clearly)
2020-11-11 22:04:35	tane	tomasino, just takes time, it seems like there's enough "exclusive content"
2020-11-11 22:04:40	lukee_	I'd like the vibe to be "here's my gemini content, but the web folk can see it too"
2020-11-11 22:05:30	kensanata	tomasino: I've noticed that for my own site, writing new posts (and browsing) is more comfortable using Elpher than using Firefox, so I often use it now.
2020-11-11 22:05:43	@tomasino	that's a good sign
2020-11-11 22:05:53	lukee_	actually personally I'm fine mostly publishing just to gemini for my own stuff, but I like the smaller audience
2020-11-11 22:06:01	@tomasino	maybe i'll be wrong and the experience alone will be enough
2020-11-11 22:06:15	kensanata	I do confess that I felt a bit sad when I added page editing via the web to transjovian.org
2020-11-11 22:06:23	ddevault	emacs people lmao
2020-11-11 22:06:23	lukee_	gemini is so pure and kind on the eyes
2020-11-11 22:07:02	kevinsan	there's a big hurdle of conditioning to overcome - we've had a decade of professional broadcasters (e.g. influencers) masquerading as regular folks and making it look like they're great at everything
2020-11-11 22:07:36	lukee_	lets invite them to join then :)
2020-11-11 22:07:46	@tomasino	i think i'll watch a superman and finally write up part 4 of this vintagetv series tonight
2020-11-11 22:07:54	lukee_	they can bring their 10000 follower with them :)
2020-11-11 22:08:06	@tomasino	i have it stubbed, but nanowrimo has had my writing all focused on cosmic
2020-11-11 22:08:25	@tomasino	speaking of which, are you all reading along to the cosmic stories via gemini?
2020-11-11 22:08:30	@tomasino	i have no logs to check
2020-11-11 22:08:36	nihilazo	I'm not, but I should!
2020-11-11 22:08:40	lukee_	not my bag really
2020-11-11 22:08:47	@tomasino	NOOOOO
2020-11-11 22:08:49	kensanata	My ship is abandoned, drifting in space, silent...
2020-11-11 22:08:56	nihilazo	I'm not sure what I want the vibe of gemini to be, tbh
2020-11-11 22:09:01	khuxkm	I'm still trying to figure out when I should come back with excelsior
2020-11-11 22:09:03	@tomasino	content!
2020-11-11 22:09:09	nihilazo	so far it seems comfy through being small
2020-11-11 22:09:11	nihilazo	but very tech-focused
2020-11-11 22:09:20	khuxkm	I need to come up with a planet that they get onto and make their new home
2020-11-11 22:09:29	nihilazo	we need more non-tech gemini content (which I'm trying to create myself, but I don't currently have a feed or anything)
2020-11-11 22:09:57	@tomasino	stage a renaissance in food blogging. fight the nonsense that is web-recipes with their 10 pages of backstory and 3,000 ads before the actual recipe
2020-11-11 22:10:01	lukee_	nihilazo: write about what you do away from the computer?
2020-11-11 22:10:07	▬▬▶	xmn has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 22:10:14	nihilazo	yeah, that's my plan
2020-11-11 22:10:17	nihilazo	I do have some recipes on there
2020-11-11 22:10:28	kevinsan	i've seen a reassuring amount of non-tech content on CAPCOM. but tech is naturally a dominating subject because of the early adopters
2020-11-11 22:10:29	nihilazo	but they're just taken from websites, whenever I cook something new I add it
2020-11-11 22:10:37	nihilazo	along with some notes on if it was any good
2020-11-11 22:10:37	lukee_	we all need more of a life AFK (esp this strange year)
2020-11-11 22:10:41	nihilazo	yeah true
2020-11-11 22:10:46	nihilazo	I Want to start writing about cosplay for gemini
2020-11-11 22:10:49	@tomasino	tech content is cool as long as it's not all about gemini itself
2020-11-11 22:10:59	nihilazo	and become...the only cosplay writer in gemspace prolly
2020-11-11 22:11:08	@tomasino	cosplay would be great to write about
2020-11-11 22:11:14	lukee_	but tomasino - thats the one topic we can all engage with?!
2020-11-11 22:11:18	khuxkm	I mean, I'm trying to make fanfiction available over gemini
2020-11-11 22:11:40	nihilazo	the only problem with writing about cosplay is images
2020-11-11 22:11:41	@tomasino	you know what i'm really surprised i haven't seen yet (looking at kensanata)... play by post RPGs in gemspace
2020-11-11 22:11:41	khuxkm	most of the fanfiction I write is available at gemini://tilde.team/~khuxkm/writing/
2020-11-11 22:11:54	kevinsan	nihilazo: i'd be interested in reading that, but i know nothing about it so it would have to start at the beginning!
2020-11-11 22:11:57	nihilazo	although I haven't found just linking to them to be a problem
2020-11-11 22:12:01	nihilazo	w/ images
2020-11-11 22:12:07	lukee_	it gets us up in the morning, we wake up to track the latest episode of the soap opera in the ML 
2020-11-11 22:12:08		tane has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-11 22:12:30	nihilazo	I want to try developing some weird things that use cgi for stuff
2020-11-11 22:12:38	nihilazo	I also am now set on the idea of building a gemini client for the kobo
2020-11-11 22:12:44	lukee_	the weirder the better imo
2020-11-11 22:12:47	khuxkm	speaking of the soap opera that is the ML, let me check my email
2020-11-11 22:12:48	@tomasino	who's gonna recommend content-length in the meta tag today? hmm....
2020-11-11 22:12:58	nihilazo	but idk if I could write a gemini client for kobo
2020-11-11 22:13:00	khuxkm	last time I ignored my email we had a big blowout convo
2020-11-11 22:13:06	boringcactus	content-length in the status code
2020-11-11 22:13:09	boringcactus	20.4390483
2020-11-11 22:13:15	@tomasino	hehe
2020-11-11 22:13:23	@tomasino	content length as a service
2020-11-11 22:13:28	kevinsan	boringcactus must be stopped at all costs
2020-11-11 22:13:43	ddevault	20 text/gemini;bytesie-wytsiess=4096
2020-11-11 22:13:57	boringcactus	69 Server Fucky Wucky
2020-11-11 22:14:01	nihilazo	how long until we have JSON APIs over the gemini protocol
2020-11-11 22:14:18	nihilazo	I should resurrect fizzbuzz-as-a-service for gemini
2020-11-11 22:14:21	lukee_	no reason not to, you just need a client that does it
2020-11-11 22:14:21	kevinsan	nihilazo: there's your first weird cgi program
2020-11-11 22:14:23	@tomasino	well now you said it, it'll happen
2020-11-11 22:14:38	ddevault	better idea
2020-11-11 22:14:43	nihilazo	the problem with weird cgi programs is that I don't think I have hosting for them
2020-11-11 22:14:51	ddevault	the length of every page must be exactly equal to the sum of the letters in its URL, as ASCII
2020-11-11 22:14:53	nihilazo	unless breadpunk would give me access to dynamic gemini content
2020-11-11 22:15:26	boringcactus	s/sum/product/ for even more fun
2020-11-11 22:15:34	kevinsan	ddevault: that would limit the file-size and make content-length largely irrelevant
2020-11-11 22:15:38	ddevault	set up yggdrasil and publish them from localhost, nihilazo 
2020-11-11 22:15:46	kevinsan	there'd be nothing else to suggest on the ML
2020-11-11 22:16:10	@tomasino	gematria as checksum?
2020-11-11 22:16:37	ddevault	let's encode the content length in the least significant bits of the server's IPv6 address
2020-11-11 22:16:39	nihilazo	yggdrasil? ddevault
2020-11-11 22:16:50	ddevault	nihilazo: https://duckduckgo.com
2020-11-11 22:17:10	ddevault	https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/
2020-11-11 22:17:20	kevinsan	ddevault: is it possible to listen on a partial address in IPv6?
2020-11-11 22:17:26	ddevault	yes
2020-11-11 22:17:35	nihilazo	interesting
2020-11-11 22:17:43	ddevault	IPv4 too
2020-11-11 22:17:45	kevinsan	well, gotta use those addresses somehow, otherwise they go to waste
2020-11-11 22:17:47	lukee_	how does that work over NAT?
2020-11-11 22:17:51	ddevault	IPv6 does not use NAT
2020-11-11 22:18:01	lukee_	no, on IPv4 
2020-11-11 22:18:06	boringcactus	broke: TCP over UDP; woke: IPv6 over IPv6
2020-11-11 22:18:22	ddevault	I don't think NAT really has anything to do with it
2020-11-11 22:18:33	lukee_	I'm not entirely serious
2020-11-11 22:18:36	ddevault	your computer can read and respond to any packets which are routed to it regardless of IP
2020-11-11 22:18:55	makeworld	nihilazo: Setup a server in your basement like me! Install Linux on any old hardware you have or buy a raspberry pi
2020-11-11 22:18:55	ddevault	so long as you're on the gateway for your subnet, you can take as many addresses as you want
2020-11-11 22:18:56	★	tomasino 's eyes glaze over
2020-11-11 22:18:59	lukee_	I thought this was a joke thread anyway
2020-11-11 22:19:07	nihilazo	my parents wouldn't let me run a server in the house
2020-11-11 22:19:08	makeworld	Yggdrasil is pretty awesome
2020-11-11 22:19:12	nihilazo	also my ISP is awful
2020-11-11 22:19:15	makeworld	Aw that sucks
2020-11-11 22:19:18	ddevault	yggdrasil is very cool
2020-11-11 22:19:19	@tomasino	you'll poke your eye out, nihilazo 
2020-11-11 22:19:43	nihilazo	while I'm here, fuck BT
2020-11-11 22:19:48	@tomasino	you'll shoot your eye out feels wrong. you'll finger your eye out, maybe? hmm
2020-11-11 22:19:51	nihilazo	our devices can't even connect to each other on LAN
2020-11-11 22:20:07	ddevault	bluetooth and LAN are not words which go together
2020-11-11 22:20:11	boringcactus	i remember looking at cjdns for juuuuust long enough to realize there wasn't actually much to do with it. haven't looked at yggdrasil that long yet but it looks similarly a neat party trick
2020-11-11 22:20:18	boringcactus	and BT is a british ISP ddevault, iirc
2020-11-11 22:20:21	nihilazo	if I have a device on LAN serving something, and something else wants to connect to it on the LAN
2020-11-11 22:20:22	ddevault	oh
2020-11-11 22:20:24	nihilazo	it doesn't work
2020-11-11 22:20:31	ddevault	your ISP also has nothing to do with your LAN
2020-11-11 22:20:34	nihilazo	because BT's routers have had broken LAN forever and they never fixed it
2020-11-11 22:20:36	lukee_	nihilazo - there are online rpi providers that support gemini
2020-11-11 22:20:44	ddevault	what kind of moron uses ISP-provided routers
2020-11-11 22:20:48	khuxkm	so apparently my Python bug report was a duplicate of a bug that's sat dormant since around 2017
2020-11-11 22:20:52	nihilazo	and my parents are very much the "we don't need a router we already have one" types
2020-11-11 22:20:56	★	kensanata is trying to build LaGrange for the third or fourth time...
2020-11-11 22:21:06	khuxkm	and no action was taken on it, so I'm currently looking into writing it since clearly it was something that someone wanted
2020-11-11 22:22:14	nihilazo	I do want to get a router that actually works
2020-11-11 22:22:40	nihilazo	but I can't afford one and my parents won't get one because they're, somehow, happy with the half broken ISP provided one
2020-11-11 22:23:13	@tomasino	makes sense for a non-techy person
2020-11-11 22:23:15	@tomasino	why bother
2020-11-11 22:24:51	ddevault	basic networking illiteracy is disturbingly common, even among technical people
2020-11-11 22:25:00	ddevault	hell, even myself
2020-11-11 22:25:01	boringcactus	the one summer i had an apartment to myself, i stuck with the ISP router because it was fine and i didn't have "buy a router separately just on principle" money
2020-11-11 22:25:08	nihilazo	tbh we used ISP provided things and it's been like, OK
2020-11-11 22:25:11	nihilazo	but this one is actually broken
2020-11-11 22:25:16	nihilazo	can't even play minecraft on LAN
2020-11-11 22:25:19	boringcactus	rip
2020-11-11 22:25:33	nihilazo	and we've confirmed that if we plug in our old router it works but the old one doesn't have new wifi so everybody complains it's slow
2020-11-11 22:25:43	nihilazo	even though it actually like, works as a router
2020-11-11 22:25:57	nihilazo	maybe I could set up the old router as the router and the ISP-provided router as an AP
2020-11-11 22:26:05	kevinsan	well, I use my ISP provided router, because it's just passable. they used to provide DrayTeks, but now FritzBox
2020-11-11 22:26:07	boringcactus	might it be a config thing in the router? iirc some routers will let you, e.g., partition off wifi and ethernet into separate vlans
2020-11-11 22:26:18	nihilazo	nah, it's not a config thing, it's a bug
2020-11-11 22:26:20	boringcactus	ahh
2020-11-11 22:26:27	nihilazo	we've tried everything in the very limited config it allows you to do
2020-11-11 22:26:38	khuxkm	this makes no sense
2020-11-11 22:26:46	kensanata	LaGrange looks super nice. But I can't seem to be use it without a mouse. Nooo!
2020-11-11 22:26:57	khuxkm	so apparently gemserv responds to there not being a query string by... just not setting QUERY_STRING at all?
2020-11-11 22:27:24	kevinsan	nihilazo: is this a known problem with your router, because I know people with BT routers who do not have that problem.
2020-11-11 22:27:27	khuxkm	so that's probably why my one thing was breaking
2020-11-11 22:27:44	lukee_	huh - sounds annoying
2020-11-11 22:27:47	nihilazo	kevinsan: apparently it's a problem for every BT router model from homehub onwards
2020-11-11 22:27:55	nihilazo	and yes, it seems to be a known issue among owners of these routers
2020-11-11 22:28:01	nihilazo	but BT have ignored it
2020-11-11 22:28:14	nihilazo	but only for some of them, for some reason
2020-11-11 22:28:45	kevinsan	nihilazo: buy an older one from eBay? they often sell for pennies
2020-11-11 22:29:08	khuxkm	okay so fixing that fixed the issue of it giving a 42 when you didn't supply a query
2020-11-11 22:29:20	khuxkm	but the issue still remains that gemserv seems to hate CGI scripts serving binary files
2020-11-11 22:29:24	kensanata	LaGrange has a preference setting called UI scale factor. Oh Yesss! This I like.
2020-11-11 22:32:03	kensanata	And with that, time for bed.
2020-11-11 22:32:31		wangofett has quit (quit: gonna go try some rust)
2020-11-11 22:32:42		kensanata has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-11 22:33:02	nihilazo	I didn't really get on with lagrange
2020-11-11 22:33:30	nihilazo	I really do want to build a gemini browser for kobo although I doubt I will use it for most of my browsing
2020-11-11 22:33:33	kevinsan	khuxkm: i just tried and yup, i get the same as you trying to send e.g. a jpeg
2020-11-11 22:33:48	acdw	nihilazo: that is a great idea
2020-11-11 22:33:53	acdw	do you like the kobo in general?
2020-11-11 22:33:55	acdw	been thining about tit
2020-11-11 22:33:57	acdw	it
2020-11-11 22:33:58	khuxkm	umm... ummm....
2020-11-11 22:34:00	khuxkm	I don't write rust
2020-11-11 22:34:13	khuxkm	https://git.sr.ht/~int80h/gemserv/tree/master/src/cgi.rs#L146 this is supposed to send the output of the command as bytes, right?
2020-11-11 22:34:18	nihilazo	acdw: I do like the kobo, although I have an old one
2020-11-11 22:34:19	nihilazo	aura hd
2020-11-11 22:34:46	nihilazo	the stock firmware is garbage but you can fake a login to not have to make an account, and install a package that adds an extra menu with 3rd party apps to it
2020-11-11 22:34:57	khuxkm	nihilazo: if I can actually get gemserv to serve the EPUB then maybe your kobo gemini reader could download the EPUB and tell the reader to read it?
2020-11-11 22:35:01	khuxkm	thoughts
2020-11-11 22:35:10	nihilazo	maybe, although not sure
2020-11-11 22:35:25	nihilazo	it could certainly download the epub into the reader's library
2020-11-11 22:35:28	nihilazo	for koreader
2020-11-11 22:35:35	nihilazo	not sure for nickel (the stock reader app)
2020-11-11 22:36:05	acdw	nihilazo: nice to know
2020-11-11 22:36:05	khuxkm	what does kobo use under the hood?
2020-11-11 22:36:11	acdw	oh no way
2020-11-11 22:36:11	nihilazo	acdw: basically my thoughts on the kobo is I would recommend a kobo if you are willing to install koreader to it
2020-11-11 22:36:18	nihilazo	otherwise it's trash because the stock software is trash
2020-11-11 22:36:21	lukee_	good night all 💤
2020-11-11 22:36:24	acdw	i've heard as much, yes
2020-11-11 22:36:26	acdw	o/ lukee_ 
2020-11-11 22:36:31		lukee_ has quit (quit: Leaving)
2020-11-11 22:36:34	nihilazo	although installing koreader is as easy as connecting it to a PC and running a scrpit
2020-11-11 22:36:37	nihilazo	s/scripit/script
2020-11-11 22:36:48	acdw	yeah, i think if i do buy one it'll be kobo
2020-11-11 22:36:50	acdw	an ereader that is
2020-11-11 22:36:56	acdw	unless i get to make my Dream E-Reader
2020-11-11 22:36:59	nihilazo	khuxkm: linux actually
2020-11-11 22:37:19	nihilazo	although it's a bit unusual in a few ways, it is a linux device, and there is a freely available toolchain and stuff
2020-11-11 22:37:41	nihilazo	there's actually an official toolchain even though installing your own software isn't officially supported, which is odd
2020-11-11 22:38:21	nihilazo	I would say in general whatever you get, I haven't had much experience with others, but a proper e-reader is a very good buy
2020-11-11 22:38:39	nihilazo	it is so much better than reading on a PC/phone/tablet that it's an entirely different experience
2020-11-11 22:38:44	acdw	yeh i want one
2020-11-11 22:38:48	acdw	just cheap
2020-11-11 22:38:50	nihilazo	I want to get one that has a bigger display than my current aura hd 
2020-11-11 22:39:04	nihilazo	there's a new kobo one that has an 8 inch display and I would be tempted if it was cheaper
2020-11-11 22:39:30	★	acdw looks at kobos
2020-11-11 22:39:32	acdw	kobi?
2020-11-11 22:39:35	acdw	kobora?
2020-11-11 22:39:38	acdw	anyway GEMINI
2020-11-11 22:39:38	nihilazo	I think it's kobos
2020-11-11 22:39:40	acdw	:P
2020-11-11 22:39:45	nihilazo	they're cheap second hand
2020-11-11 22:39:52	khuxkm	I was gonna say, this is the gemini channel rights
2020-11-11 22:39:53	acdw	oh doope
2020-11-11 22:39:55	khuxkm	s/s$//
2020-11-11 22:39:56	acdw	oh shit you're not lying
2020-11-11 22:40:00	nihilazo	I think my aura hd was £60
2020-11-11 22:40:05	makeworld	I browse Gemini on my Kobo!
2020-11-11 22:40:06	acdw	ha rights
2020-11-11 22:40:09	makeworld	Using the portal though
2020-11-11 22:40:11	nihilazo	anyway yeah I'm gonna move kobo talk to dm
2020-11-11 22:40:15	nihilazo	yeah the portal works in the kobo browser
2020-11-11 22:40:18	nihilazo	but where's the fun in that
2020-11-11 22:40:21	makeworld	No look I brought it back
2020-11-11 22:40:23	khuxkm	ALRIGHT, so my CGI script is borked, even though it works in the terminal
2020-11-11 22:40:25	acdw	KOBOO
2020-11-11 22:40:36	acdw	oof khuxkm , still
2020-11-11 22:40:46	khuxkm	yeah
2020-11-11 22:40:51	makeworld	Wait what script?
2020-11-11 22:41:02	khuxkm	ew0k helped me figure out the reason for the one crash but the other's still not giving out
2020-11-11 22:41:08	acdw	the one khuxkm 's been trying to write
2020-11-11 22:41:08	khuxkm	one sec
2020-11-11 22:41:28	khuxkm	well I already wrote it for the web, so I'm porting it to gemini because why not
2020-11-11 22:41:37	boringcactus	picked up a used Kindle a while back and i've only used it for one book so far but it was way better than a phone or computer would've been for that
2020-11-11 22:41:46	boringcactus	wonder if the Pine64 folks would want to make an e-reader
2020-11-11 22:41:51	khuxkm	makeworld: https://gist.github.com/MineRobber9000/53e89a8a2c9c97448c59ef634ee26b41#file-work-gmi
2020-11-11 22:42:21	makeworld	Oh Python, nice
2020-11-11 22:42:23	makeworld	Let me look
2020-11-11 22:42:38	khuxkm	before you ask, 1) line 5 shouldn't assume QUERY_STRING is there, and it has been fixed, 2) gemini.start_response assumes a status code of 20 if not given one, and 3) supplying format=html works
2020-11-11 22:42:43	boringcactus	oh khuxkm https://git.sr.ht/~int80h/gemserv/tree/master/src/cgi.rs#L140 tries to decode the output as a UTF-8 string
2020-11-11 22:43:02	khuxkm	...what
2020-11-11 22:43:06	khuxkm	why the hell does it do that
2020-11-11 22:43:13	makeworld	Ohh this is your cursed AO3 portal
2020-11-11 22:43:14	makeworld	Lol
2020-11-11 22:43:37	boringcactus	it assumes the CGI script will be producing text, presumably
2020-11-11 22:43:37	makeworld	Wait why would you not want UTF-8, the superior encoding?
2020-11-11 22:43:42	makeworld	Oh rip
2020-11-11 22:43:43	ericonr	there's going to be an AO3 portal to gemini?
2020-11-11 22:43:46	khuxkm	because I'm sending a binary file over the wire
2020-11-11 22:43:52	makeworld	Oof
2020-11-11 22:44:08	makeworld	Time to use a different server or patch that one
2020-11-11 22:44:15	khuxkm	ericonr: there already is; besides, you know, the work downloading part
2020-11-11 22:44:26	khuxkm	you can list works in a tag and (undocumentedly) by a user
2020-11-11 22:44:34	boringcactus	yeah it literally doesn't need to do that, because it only ever uses the String by getting back the bytes
2020-11-11 22:44:37	makeworld	They tell int80h is deployed so you won't be getting upstream fixes any time soon
2020-11-11 22:44:47	makeworld	*tell me
2020-11-11 22:44:54	khuxkm	yep
2020-11-11 22:45:33	makeworld	Just switch to Jetforce or whatever the kids use these days
2020-11-11 22:45:34	khuxkm	catch me driving to oklahoma to yell at int80h in person :P
2020-11-11 22:45:35	ericonr	khuxkm: neat :)
2020-11-11 22:45:46	khuxkm	the problem is I'm on tilde.team and therefore am not in control
2020-11-11 22:45:46	makeworld	He's deployed... to Oklahoma?
2020-11-11 22:45:53	makeworld	Oh oof
2020-11-11 22:46:00	makeworld	Time to talk to the sysadmins I guess
2020-11-11 22:46:00	khuxkm	>I ship out on 20201006 which is only a few days away. My basic training and job training together consists of 26 weeks. Both will be at Ft. Sill which is in Lawton Oklahoma.
2020-11-11 22:46:07	makeworld	Oh hm
2020-11-11 22:46:18	khuxkm	i AM a sysadmin on tilde.team, but fixing this will require me to learn how to Rust
2020-11-11 22:46:31	@ben	does jetforce have userdirs and cgi?
2020-11-11 22:46:38	boringcactus	i can throw a patch together for you khuxkm
2020-11-11 22:46:57	ericonr	good boringcactus 
2020-11-11 22:47:04	khuxkm	boringcactus: that would be extremely nice of you
2020-11-11 22:47:08	ericonr	I was going to cobble something together
2020-11-11 22:47:23	ericonr	but boringcactus seems to actually know what they are doing
2020-11-11 22:47:39	khuxkm	and we could submit it for int80h to merge upstream when possible
2020-11-11 22:51:33	makeworld	ben: CGI yes, userdirs I'm not sure? It would be trivial to write an "application server" that does that though
2020-11-11 22:52:59	boringcactus	https://f.boringcactus.com/0001-don-t-round-trip-CGI-response-through-UTF-8.patch khuxkm here you go
2020-11-11 22:53:03	boringcactus	idk how easy that is to apply
2020-11-11 22:53:30	khuxkm	should be decently easy, I already have the gemserv source cloned
2020-11-11 22:53:40	boringcactus	yeah then i think? piping it into git am should work
2020-11-11 22:54:06	boringcactus	and then cargo build --release, copy target/release/gemserv to wherever it needs to be (although test it first)
2020-11-11 22:54:48	ericonr	boringcactus: your name made me think of River Song :P
2020-11-11 22:54:57	boringcactus	^w^
2020-11-11 22:56:15	@ben	khuxkm: do you want me to apply that
2020-11-11 22:56:27		nihilazo has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-11 22:56:41	khuxkm	I'm gonna try and test it first
2020-11-11 22:56:45	@ben	ok
2020-11-11 22:56:52	@ben	if it looks good i can deploy it
2020-11-11 22:56:54	@ben	just holler
2020-11-11 22:56:55	khuxkm	it's still building >:P
2020-11-11 22:57:20	@ben	ah yeah that'll take a couple years
2020-11-11 22:57:43	kevinsan	boringcactus: thanks got the gemserv patch, you're a star!
2020-11-11 22:58:29	khuxkm	I would have built it in-place at /usr/local/src/gemserv but we run gemserv from where its built and if it breaks I'd rather not have to have that problem :P
2020-11-11 22:58:42	khuxkm	so I'll build it on my local copy of the code, test it, and then let you know
2020-11-11 22:58:42	@ben	ok
2020-11-11 22:59:58		xmn has quit (quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-11-11 23:00:05	▬▬▶	xmn has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 23:00:05	boringcactus	just emailed it to int80h
2020-11-11 23:00:21	ericonr	ben: why would you say that, rust builds soooo quickly :P
2020-11-11 23:01:34	@ben	lmao
2020-11-11 23:01:37	@ben	that's funny
2020-11-11 23:07:19	boringcactus	https://lists.sr.ht/~int80h/public-inbox/patches/14926 just in case somebody needs a more stable URL to that gemserv patch
2020-11-11 23:07:47	jcowan	I've figured out a nice easy to implement Dioscuri service: a like-dislike engine.  You send it 'like <so and so>' or 'dislike <so and so>' in plain text, and if you send it 'report' it will come back with 'Abraham Lincoln: 10 likes, 5 dislikes' and so on line by line.
2020-11-11 23:08:00	kevinsan	thanks boringcactus, i just patched, compiled and tested - jpeg showing via cgi. thanks!
2020-11-11 23:08:06	boringcactus	yw! glad it works
2020-11-11 23:11:17	ddevault	jcowan: we have an IRC bot which notices when people say "thing++" or "thing--" and increments/decrements its number, and prints out the current value
2020-11-11 23:11:38	@tomasino	ddevault++
2020-11-11 23:11:51	jcowan	Sure.  I'm not looking to displace that, just to provide a demo of what Dioscuri can do and how easily it does it.
2020-11-11 23:12:03	ddevault	also, you can do that with gemini
2020-11-11 23:12:11	jcowan	Also true
2020-11-11 23:12:40	jcowan	Another idea I came up with is a file classifier: you ship it a file, it sends you back a MIME-type.  YOu can't do that in Gemini.
2020-11-11 23:13:04	ddevault	libmagic as a service
2020-11-11 23:19:16	khuxkm	can confirm
2020-11-11 23:20:03	khuxkm	ben: kevinsan and I can both confirm that the patch works as advertised
2020-11-11 23:20:57	khuxkm	so I just sudo up, go into /usr/local/src/gemserv, and apply the patch/build?
2020-11-11 23:24:32	khuxkm	also I opened up TIC-80 with an intent to spec out that download animation I wanted a client to use and then I never actually did it
2020-11-11 23:26:17	khuxkm	>Oops,
2020-11-11 23:26:18	khuxkm	opengameart.org
2020-11-11 23:26:18	khuxkm	is not available because it is categorized as games
2020-11-11 23:26:21	khuxkm	woops
2020-11-11 23:26:27	khuxkm	let's try that again
2020-11-11 23:26:28	khuxkm	>Oops, opengameart.org is not available because it is categorized as games
2020-11-11 23:26:31	khuxkm	yes that is the point
2020-11-11 23:27:09	khuxkm	have I mentioned that i hate how locked down the school chromebooks are
2020-11-11 23:27:53	kevinsan	i hate google having anything to do with schools
2020-11-11 23:28:02	kevinsan	creepy as f*ck
2020-11-11 23:28:05	khuxkm	I'll do it
2020-11-11 23:28:57	khuxkm	kevinsan: well I'm fine with google
2020-11-11 23:29:09	khuxkm	it's more of a complaint towards my school's IT department
2020-11-11 23:29:23	khuxkm	like, why does the web filtering need to be always-on
2020-11-11 23:29:41	khuxkm	I'm at home at 7 on a day off, why the hell can't I look at video game stuff
2020-11-11 23:29:42	kevinsan	yeah, at least IT dept is merely incompetent
2020-11-11 23:30:32		xmn has quit (quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-11-11 23:30:42	▬▬▶	xmn has joined #gemini
2020-11-11 23:38:47	khuxkm	ddevault: https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gmni/tree/master/src/tofu.c so I'm confused; according to OpenSSL docs, a return value of 0 from the cert_verify_callback signifies a verification failure
2020-11-11 23:39:04	ddevault	man, hell if I know
2020-11-11 23:39:09	ddevault	this shit is really badly documented
2020-11-11 23:39:24	ddevault	I had to read the OpenSSL code to grok anything
2020-11-11 23:39:27	khuxkm	>callback should return 1 to indicate verification success and 0 to indicate verification failure. If SSL_VERIFY_PEER is set and callback returns 0, the handshake will fail.
2020-11-11 23:39:37	khuxkm	maybe you aren't setting SSL_VERIFY_PEER?
2020-11-11 23:39:47	ddevault	ah, that's probably it
2020-11-11 23:39:55	ddevault	or maybe it, I dunno
2020-11-11 23:39:58	ddevault	OpenSSL sucks
2020-11-11 23:40:24	khuxkm	in any case I'm just looking to write this CPython patch so I can worry about figuring it out in Python
2020-11-11 23:40:50	ddevault	well, you're going to have a miserable time
2020-11-11 23:40:52	ddevault	best of luck
2020-11-11 23:41:36	khuxkm	well, my bug got closed as a duplicate, and the bug it "duplicates" has sat with fuck all being done to it for 3 years
2020-11-11 23:41:45	khuxkm	guess if you want something done you do it yourself
2020-11-11 23:41:54	ddevault	aye
2020-11-11 23:46:23	acdw	shit are we pirates now?
2020-11-11 23:46:28	★	acdw missed the memo
2020-11-11 23:46:30	acdw	ahoy
2020-11-11 23:47:53	khuxkm	ahoy me matey
2020-11-11 23:47:58	khuxkm	i already be wanting to walk the plank
2020-11-11 23:48:47	@tomasino	arrr
2020-11-11 23:49:07	khuxkm	like, what... what?
2020-11-11 23:49:19	khuxkm	what am I supposed to do with a X509_STORE_CTX
2020-11-11 23:49:24	khuxkm	how do I pass that into Python?
2020-11-11 23:49:32	acdw	yaarrrrr
2020-11-11 23:49:40	acdw	oh that's cursed tho
2020-11-11 23:49:47	kevinsan	khuxkm: if SSL_VERIFY_PEER is set, then a self-signed certificate would typically fail. so that logic all makes sense
2020-11-11 23:49:59	acdw	why's it storing context? for that matter, why is it x509?
2020-11-11 23:50:14	khuxkm	Just say "fuck it" and cast the X509_STORE_CTX to PyObject *?
2020-11-11 23:50:21	acdw	yes
2020-11-11 23:50:24	acdw	always fuck it
2020-11-11 23:50:36	khuxkm	I mean I'm already half-assing it though
2020-11-11 23:50:49	acdw	haha
2020-11-11 23:50:54	kevinsan	that's called being a software developer
2020-11-11 23:51:02	acdw	you know how assed bollux is? there's a reason it's called bollux
2020-11-11 23:51:08	khuxkm	literally just copied the code from _servername_callback and am currently trying to make it work in the context of Python
2020-11-11 23:51:18	khuxkm	s/Python/cert_verify_callback/
2020-11-11 23:57:59	khuxkm	shoot me with a water gun emoji
2020-11-11 23:58:04	khuxkm	whyyyy
2020-11-11 23:58:18	khuxkm	i mean i'm fully aware i brought this on myself but whyyyyyy
2020-11-11 23:58:25	acdw	oh no
2020-11-11 23:58:29	acdw	are you writing a server? or client?
2020-11-12 00:00:13	khuxkm	I'm fixing bpo-31242, which has had fuck all done about it other than Christian Heimes setting its stage to needs patch
2020-11-12 00:00:31	khuxkm	and that was, like, 3 years ago
2020-11-12 00:00:46	khuxkm	I only know about it because my bug report was closed for being a duplicate of it
2020-11-12 00:01:31	khuxkm	https://bugs.python.org/issue31242
2020-11-12 00:02:53	acdw	oh no
2020-11-12 00:02:58	acdw	i don't even know what that ios
2020-11-12 00:03:16	acdw	ah, read the issue
2020-11-12 00:06:06	khuxkm	of course, the set_servername_callback it refers to is now SSLContext.sni_callback
2020-11-12 00:20:13		nixo has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-12 00:22:49	khuxkm	you know what
2020-11-12 00:22:50	khuxkm	no
2020-11-12 00:23:11	khuxkm	if the person who has declared themself as someone to bug for something hasn't done the thing, I sure as hell am not going to do the thing
2020-11-12 00:25:20	acdw	yeah!
2020-11-12 00:25:32	acdw	good job khuxkm 
2020-11-12 00:25:35	acdw	stand up for yourself!
2020-11-12 00:26:32	khuxkm	actually at this point it's sunk cost fallacy, so I'm gonna quarter-ass it and submit the patch
2020-11-12 00:27:02	khuxkm	if Christian "your bug is a duplicate of this bug I abandoned two years ago" Heimes wants to change something in the patch though he can do it himself
2020-11-12 00:29:38	khuxkm	actually I'm gonna triple flip flop and just not do it
2020-11-12 00:29:39	khuxkm	fuck this
2020-11-12 00:29:50	khuxkm	SSL was a mistake
2020-11-12 00:35:58	ddevault	on the subject of plan 9
2020-11-12 00:36:00	ddevault	https://l.sr.ht/a4sT.mp4
2020-11-12 00:41:31	khuxkm	okay so now I'm good and confused, and reading SSL code has confuzzled me even more
2020-11-12 00:42:13	▬▬▶	gast0n has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 00:43:06	khuxkm	so SSL_CTX_set_verify's verify_callback parameter is a callback that's called by OpenSSL when verifying a cert, while the cert_verify_callback (set from SSL_CTX_cert_verify_callback) is in charge of verifying the entire chain?
2020-11-12 00:47:44	khuxkm	wait, how does jetforce get client certs
2020-11-12 00:47:46	khuxkm	now i'm lost
2020-11-12 00:48:16	khuxkm	oh, it uses twisted
2020-11-12 00:48:43	khuxkm	...am I seriously going to have to learn twisted to be able to support client certs in my gemini server
2020-11-12 00:50:19	khuxkm	i am genuinely lost now
2020-11-12 00:51:04	acdw	lol ddevault 
2020-11-12 00:51:12	acdw	oh god khuxkm 
2020-11-12 00:51:14	acdw	switch languages
2020-11-12 00:51:16	acdw	it's not worth it
2020-11-12 00:52:19	khuxkm	so twisted uses PyOpenSSL, and has a CertificateOptions object that can implement verify_callback and the others
2020-11-12 00:53:07	khuxkm	but jetforce has to subclass it so that client certs pass into Python code
2020-11-12 00:54:30		fleeky has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-12 00:54:58	acdw	oh no
2020-11-12 00:57:55	xfnw	twisted--
2020-11-12 00:58:39	khuxkm	yet I don't see where the verify_callback function it implements is getting called?
2020-11-12 00:58:40	acdw	what is twisted?
2020-11-12 00:58:45	acdw	ssl library?
2020-11-12 00:58:46	khuxkm	https://github.com/twisted/twisted
2020-11-12 00:58:51	acdw	I just think "don't get it twisted"
2020-11-12 00:58:53	khuxkm	it implements a lot of things
2020-11-12 00:59:10	acdw	oh it looks complicated lol
2020-11-12 00:59:13	acdw	which makes sense
2020-11-12 01:03:21	xfnw	its a weirdo internet stuff library for python that nobody knows how to use
2020-11-12 01:05:11	khuxkm	okay so to answer my unspoken question, yes, you can actually implement something that shoves client certs through using just verify_callback
2020-11-12 01:05:27	khuxkm	but then you have to verify client certs inside your own code
2020-11-12 01:07:54	acdw	of
2020-11-12 01:07:56	acdw	oof
2020-11-12 01:13:56	ddevault	is there a gemini client for plan 9 that people like
2020-11-12 01:27:15		Seirdy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 01:29:00	kayw	i've only seen gemnine by ft, but I don't know of any others https://git.sr.ht/~ft/gemnine
2020-11-12 01:33:55	acdw	me on opening my email: Oh ther's only 4 ML posts
2020-11-12 01:33:57	acdw	Oh
2020-11-12 01:33:59	acdw	OH GOD
2020-11-12 01:34:12	kayw	uh oh
2020-11-12 01:34:22	acdw	bunches
2020-11-12 01:38:12	@ben	khuxkm: yeah
2020-11-12 01:38:14	@ben	did you do it?
2020-11-12 01:38:26	@ben	note that there are changes you'll have to stash in config.toml
2020-11-12 01:38:33	@ben	and just systemctl restart gemserv
2020-11-12 02:00:18	khuxkm	yeah I did ti
2020-11-12 02:00:20	khuxkm	s/ti/it/
2020-11-12 02:00:58	▬▬▶	Seirdy has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 02:05:48		gast0n has quit (quit: Bye, see you soon! 👋)
2020-11-12 03:14:43	khuxkm	how should I suggest a filename for a download?
2020-11-12 03:15:04	khuxkm	multipart/mixed with a Content-Disposition header?
2020-11-12 03:26:33		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-12 03:37:45	login	yes, Content-Disposition with attachment; filename="file name here"
2020-11-12 03:40:15	khuxkm	but that feels like cheating
2020-11-12 03:40:23	khuxkm	i mean it IS cheating
2020-11-12 03:40:27	khuxkm	but still
2020-11-12 03:50:54	bie	khuxkm: what do you mean suggest a filename?
2020-11-12 03:53:47	khuxkm	I mean, when you go to download an EPUB from my AO3 proxy amfora saves it as "work.gmi" and I want to know what the expected way is to say "actually could you save it as X please?"
2020-11-12 04:00:01		avane has quit (quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2020-11-12 04:01:30	▬▬▶	avane has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 04:19:06	epoch	you might be able to do a rewrite so that the query string passed to work.gmi is in what would get thought of as the filename?
2020-11-12 04:19:37	epoch	or do something like... PATH_TRANSLATED
2020-11-12 04:19:50	epoch	and PATH_INFO
2020-11-12 04:20:20	epoch	/cgi-bin/work.cgi/what_you_want_it_named.ext
2020-11-12 04:44:24	khuxkm	gemtext parsing question: what to do about empty lines between text lines?
2020-11-12 04:44:31	khuxkm	are they considered text lines in and of themselves
2020-11-12 04:44:32	khuxkm	?
2020-11-12 04:44:38	acdw	yes
2020-11-12 04:44:43	acdw	afaict
2020-11-12 04:44:49	khuxkm	well that's gonna make my parser a lot more complicated
2020-11-12 04:44:52	acdw	oh?
2020-11-12 04:44:55	acdw	should be line-based
2020-11-12 04:44:57	acdw	?
2020-11-12 04:45:17	khuxkm	"should" being the operative word in that sentence
2020-11-12 04:45:27	khuxkm	I'm trying to be fancy shmancy
2020-11-12 04:46:55	acdw	ooohhhh
2020-11-12 04:46:59	acdw	what areyou doing?
2020-11-12 04:47:40	khuxkm	(ab)using SLY (a lexer-parser lib for Python) to parse Gemtext
2020-11-12 04:47:56	khuxkm	and right now the only problem is that I can't convince it to accept an empty line
2020-11-12 04:48:35	acdw	huh, that's weird
2020-11-12 04:48:44	acdw	i mean, you don't *have* to count them as anything
2020-11-12 04:48:57	acdw	i wouldn't think anyone would use a blank line as like, something semantic
2020-11-12 04:49:08	acdw	unless you can't ocunt multiple ones --- sometimes spacing is good
2020-11-12 04:50:14	bie	khuxkm: does that mean you're unable to handle blank lines in preformatted text?
2020-11-12 04:50:31	acdw	ooh that is a wrinkle
2020-11-12 04:50:43	khuxkm	bie: yes, kinda, but I get around that by manually re-adding those blank lines later
2020-11-12 04:51:02	khuxkm	(which I do by counting the difference in `lineno` between each token and the one preceding it
2020-11-12 04:51:05	khuxkm	)
2020-11-12 04:51:49	bie	i'm not gonna lie, that seems unnecessarily complex, but i'm assuming you have a good reason to use the lexer-parser lib ;)
2020-11-12 04:52:20	acdw	^
2020-11-12 04:53:36	▬▬▶	awalvie has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 04:54:31	khuxkm	tip: never assume I have a good reason; usually I'm just going "fuck it can i?"
2020-11-12 04:54:54	bie	lol
2020-11-12 04:55:43	khuxkm	and the answer seems to be "either no, or just ignore the empty lines"
2020-11-12 04:56:13	khuxkm	which I think I will just ignore the empty lines
2020-11-12 04:56:15	khuxkm	
2020-11-12 04:57:48	khuxkm	I'm treating each text line as its own <p> tag (my testing ground is a gemtext to HTML converter) so it'll be spaced either way
2020-11-12 04:58:00	acdw	khuxkm: sammee
2020-11-12 05:08:08	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 06:02:33		insom has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-12 06:09:19		praetorian has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-12 06:09:34	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 06:25:12		acdw has quit (quit: bye, love you)
2020-11-12 06:25:19	▬▬▶	acdw has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 06:25:30		krjst has quit (quit: bye)
2020-11-12 06:25:39	▬▬▶	krjst has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 06:31:19		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 07:03:37	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 07:03:37		praetorian has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-12 07:03:37	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 07:07:52		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 08:20:15	▬▬▶	tane has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 08:20:33	tane	howdy
2020-11-12 08:25:15	ew0k	o/
2020-11-12 08:43:34		Seirdy has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 08:44:34	▬▬▶	Seirdy has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 09:04:39	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 09:04:39		praetorian has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-12 09:04:39	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 09:08:52		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 09:21:36	ew0k	Trying out AV-98 now, and it’s nice
2020-11-12 09:21:59	ew0k	did not expect to like a browser that looks like a terminal prompt
2020-11-12 09:23:06	ew0k	On the other hand I didn’t expect to be toying with the idea of making a browser as a fuse filesystem, so... 
2020-11-12 09:33:30	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 09:37:44		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 10:01:41	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 10:05:56		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 10:06:04		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 10:06:50	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 10:11:54		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 10:18:02	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 10:30:07		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 10:30:55	bie	ew0k: av98 is my "main" gemini browser, i really like it
2020-11-12 10:31:19	bie	lagrange is nice, too, imo
2020-11-12 10:38:00	tane	lagrange is just beautiful
2020-11-12 10:38:11	tane	the automatically generated colorschemes kick ass too
2020-11-12 10:52:16	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 11:17:58	ew0k	is lagrange terminal based too?
2020-11-12 11:20:47		awalvie has quit (The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.)
2020-11-12 11:26:03	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 11:26:03		praetorian has quit (Changing host)
2020-11-12 11:26:03	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 11:26:16	aravk	ew0k: it's a gui client
2020-11-12 11:32:48		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 12:28:20	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 12:28:35		praetorian has quit (Connection closed)
2020-11-12 12:28:50	▬▬▶	praetorian has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 12:33:35		praetorian has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 13:06:53	acdw	ew0k: wait what. That sounds amazing
2020-11-12 13:07:25	ew0k	acdw: it does?
2020-11-12 13:08:09	acdw	The fuse based browser. Sorry just saw that was four hours ago
2020-11-12 13:08:26	ew0k	the chat hasn't moved much since :D 
2020-11-12 13:09:11	ew0k	is there a gemini python library somewhere? And if there is, what does it do?
2020-11-12 13:09:13	acdw	Lol
2020-11-12 13:15:40	ew0k	acdw: now I'm reading about FUSE filesystem implementation in python, just because you said it sounded like a good idea XD
2020-11-12 13:16:17	ew0k	Would be awesome if there was a python library for gemini requests/responses to build it in top of
2020-11-12 13:16:30	acdw	Nice! You could mount capsules and browser em. That's be so dope
2020-11-12 13:18:17	ew0k	that's what I had in mind. I'm not sure how to represent a capsule, yet
2020-11-12 13:18:41	ℹ 	acdw is now known as breadw
2020-11-12 13:18:55	breadw	Bah
2020-11-12 13:19:02	ℹ 	breadw is now known as acdw
2020-11-12 13:19:49	ew0k	I'm thinking a capsule as a directory, where each link is a subdirectory. But what would the text content of the capsule be?
2020-11-12 13:21:53	ew0k	maybe make it a textfile. Content.txt
2020-11-12 13:23:08		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-11-12 13:24:26	ew0k	Not sure what to do with links that aren't gemini:// or gemtext, or how to tell them apart
2020-11-12 13:24:55	tane	ew0k, sounds like a perfect match :)
2020-11-12 13:25:38	ew0k	tane: not sure about that, but it sounds *doable* :D Whether or not that means it *should actually be done*... I dunno :D 
2020-11-12 13:28:43	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 13:29:22	acdw	Yes!
2020-11-12 13:31:34	ew0k	yes, what?! :D I feel like my brain has already gone down five paths this discussion could take and I don't know what we're talking about even though it's right in front of me XD
2020-11-12 13:31:48	@tomasino	sounds like you need coffee and chocolate
2020-11-12 13:32:31		gohan has quit (quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-11-12 13:32:43	ew0k	I don't drink coffee, and am out of chocolate, so that's probably a fair assessment
2020-11-12 13:33:18	▬▬▶	gohan has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 13:50:34	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 13:51:13	khuxkm	>Would be awesome if there was a python library for gemini requests/responses to build it in top of
2020-11-12 13:51:18	khuxkm	might mess around and make one later
2020-11-12 13:51:19	ehmry	acdw: ew0k: I think plan9 has something like this http_fs or so
2020-11-12 13:52:02	acdw	oooh
2020-11-12 13:52:18	acdw	i feel like the universe keeps pulling me toward plan 9
2020-11-12 13:54:17	ew0k	khuxkm: wanna do it together? I'm looking at the AV-98 source code right now for inspiration
2020-11-12 13:55:05	khuxkm	sure, why not? what code hosting site do you want to use?
2020-11-12 13:55:37	acdw	ha
2020-11-12 13:55:39	acdw	live coding
2020-11-12 13:56:14	ehmry	http://okmij.org/ftp/USENIX99/?
2020-11-12 13:58:16	ehmry	there are reasons why file-system as the interface didn't catch on, but its still fun to play with
2020-11-12 14:00:43	ew0k	khuxkm: I'll put it up on https://notabug.org/tinyrabbit :)
2020-11-12 14:01:08	khuxkm	ooh notabug
2020-11-12 14:01:20	khuxkm	been a while since I last used it
2020-11-12 14:04:40	khuxkm	ew0k: tossed you a follow
2020-11-12 14:05:00	ew0k	There are follows???
2020-11-12 14:05:16	★	ew0k has only used it as a git repo with web interface
2020-11-12 14:06:59	▬▬▶	fleeky has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 14:15:45		mieum has quit (quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2020-11-12 14:28:15	▬▬▶	acdw2 has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 14:31:27		acdw2 has quit (quit: love you)
2020-11-12 14:50:06	nristen	Cai0laim
2020-11-12 14:59:16	▬▬▶	gast0n has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:06:13	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:09:17		ericonr has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 15:10:59	▬▬▶	ericonr has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:11:44	acdw	is that yr password?
2020-11-12 15:13:04	@tomasino	hunter2
2020-11-12 15:13:40	insep	fbkfbkfbkfbk
2020-11-12 15:16:10		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:16:21	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:16:41	acdw	tomasino: I just see *******
2020-11-12 15:16:49	@tomasino	oh noes
2020-11-12 15:17:27		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:17:38	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:18:04	@tomasino	=O
2020-11-12 15:18:19		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:18:28	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:19:33		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:19:43	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:19:59	▬▬▶	dctrud has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:23:51		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:24:06	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:25:08		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:25:19	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:25:29	jan6	all hail jan and jan6, geminæ ;P
2020-11-12 15:28:23		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:28:43	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:29:45	acdw	=0
2020-11-12 15:33:09		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:33:24	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:34:58		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:35:08	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:36:28		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:36:48	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:37:25	insep	:o
2020-11-12 15:37:58		mieum has quit (quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 15:38:07	▬▬▶	mieum has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 15:43:09	acdw	.o.
2020-11-12 15:44:20		epoch has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 15:44:37		mieum has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
2020-11-12 16:02:14	mhj	Morning all
2020-11-12 16:02:27	login	morning mhj
2020-11-12 16:02:33	mhj	Well, where I am anyway lol
2020-11-12 16:02:38	mhj	How're y'all
2020-11-12 16:03:11	bie	evening mhj
2020-11-12 16:03:49	bie	fixed a bunch of bugs in my gemini server today 🎉
2020-11-12 16:10:39	▬▬▶	epoch has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 16:11:50	acdw	something something global greeting time
2020-11-12 16:11:52	acdw	or whatever
2020-11-12 16:11:54	acdw	also good job bie
2020-11-12 16:12:17	acdw	I'm making a gemini client in awk
2020-11-12 16:12:20	acdw	for jan6
2020-11-12 16:13:05	bie	acdw: nice! how are you handling tls?
2020-11-12 16:14:11	acdw	system("openssl s_client")
2020-11-12 16:14:14	acdw	;)
2020-11-12 16:14:19	bie	:D
2020-11-12 16:14:26	acdw	of course i'm doing this b/c bollux isn't enough
2020-11-12 16:14:43	aravk	oh god acdw why why
2020-11-12 16:14:52	★	aravk dies
2020-11-12 16:14:52	acdw	jan6 asked me to
2020-11-12 16:14:57	acdw	awk is actually pretty dope
2020-11-12 16:15:04	aravk	I've used awk for some stuff
2020-11-12 16:15:07	acdw	stretch goal: implement tls 1.3 in pure awk
2020-11-12 16:15:10	aravk	it's like a watered down C
2020-11-12 16:15:30	aravk	and it has really bad external (i.e. i/o etc.) support
2020-11-12 16:15:57	aravk	though I can definitely see something like using awk as a shell around openssl s_client
2020-11-12 16:31:07	▬▬▶	nihilazo has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 16:35:18	acdw	yes!
2020-11-12 16:35:28	acdw	and watered up c is too much for me
2020-11-12 16:35:30	acdw	so awk it is :)
2020-11-12 16:35:44	acdw	and actually, awk can do a fair amount of i/o
2020-11-12 16:35:55	acdw	see getline
2020-11-12 16:36:07	acdw	and you can print to a file
2020-11-12 16:43:52	jan6	why use C, when you have D? ;P
2020-11-12 16:46:29	nihilazo	why use C or D when you have go
2020-11-12 16:48:14	@tomasino	Why use Go when you have sheep?
2020-11-12 16:48:16	★	tomasino pets sheep
2020-11-12 16:48:48	aravk	Why use anything when you can make your own language that's substantially better
2020-11-12 16:49:24	insep	jan6: agreed
2020-11-12 16:49:28	insep	(not really)
2020-11-12 16:49:28	@tomasino	why use a language when you could create an AI that will make its own language and program for you
2020-11-12 16:49:42	aravk	metanet
2020-11-12 16:50:37	aravk	jan6: have you used D, by any chance?
2020-11-12 16:51:09	kayw	why use <certain language that's perfectly fine> when you have <other perfectly acceptable language>
2020-11-12 16:54:56	★	acdw pets sheep
2020-11-12 16:55:11	acdw	wait, so there's B, C, D, and .. F#
2020-11-12 16:55:13	acdw	where's E?
2020-11-12 16:55:22	acdw	elang
2020-11-12 16:55:22	insep	V
2020-11-12 16:55:28	@tomasino	shh, we don't talk about E
2020-11-12 16:55:30	kayw	erlang is E
2020-11-12 16:55:33	kayw	or Elm
2020-11-12 16:55:33	★	acdw creates Zlang
2020-11-12 16:55:37	acdw	no, just E
2020-11-12 16:55:46	insep	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_(programming_language)
2020-11-12 16:56:05	jcowan	F is a modernized dialect of Fortran
2020-11-12 16:56:09	kayw	so it DOES exist
2020-11-12 16:56:38	jcowan	there are a couple of languages called G
2020-11-12 16:57:31	acdw	eop
2020-11-12 16:57:33	acdw	dope
2020-11-12 16:57:55	jcowan	h is an artlang: programs in it can only output "h" or "'"
2020-11-12 16:58:18	★	acdw creates ζlang
2020-11-12 16:58:26	acdw	oh i've heard of h
2020-11-12 16:58:30	acdw	how bout i ?
2020-11-12 16:58:33	acdw	iteratorlang
2020-11-12 16:59:10	★	jcowan shrugs; impossible to google reliably
2020-11-12 16:59:19	jcowan	J and K are descendants of APL
2020-11-12 17:01:07	jcowan	L actually looks pretty interesting
2020-11-12 17:01:18	nihilazo	APL is unusual but interesting
2020-11-12 17:01:19	jcowan	http://l-lang.org
2020-11-12 17:01:34	nihilazo	although recently I have been leaving unusual but interesting languages behind for boring but useful ones
2020-11-12 17:01:36	nihilazo	like go
2020-11-12 17:01:37	nihilazo	which is boring, but useful
2020-11-12 17:02:02	jcowan	I think Go and Rust should exchange names, as it is really Go that is rusty
2020-11-12 17:02:32	kayw	I need to learn Go
2020-11-12 17:02:35	jcowan	I worked for a year or so with a company that uses K for everything
2020-11-12 17:02:47	kayw	K?
2020-11-12 17:02:55	jcowan	APL offshoot, as I said
2020-11-12 17:03:10	kayw	oh my bad
2020-11-12 17:03:12	jcowan	the syntax is an unspeakable horror
2020-11-12 17:04:49	jcowan	WP gives the example "2!!7!4" where each of the ! operators means something different.
2020-11-12 17:05:02	acdw	K -- you mean Special K !? :P
2020-11-12 17:05:05	nihilazo	kayw: so far my go experience has been positive
2020-11-12 17:05:38	jcowan	The main two things in Go are interfaces, which have the great advantage of being retroactive: if you define an interface that some existing struct matches, it just works
2020-11-12 17:05:45	nihilazo	with the exception of gopath and modules
2020-11-12 17:06:02	nihilazo	because the book I learned from was written for gopath but modern go uses modules and it's annoying sometimes
2020-11-12 17:06:16	nihilazo	although using a plan 9 environment to learn in does not help that
2020-11-12 17:06:18	jcowan	and of course goroutines and channels, which the equivalent of pipes inside a single program, and unbelievably easy to use
2020-11-12 17:06:47	nihilazo	I feel like go is probably going to become the language I pick up when I want to write anything bigger than a script from now on
2020-11-12 17:07:00	acdw	oh fr jcowan ? that's cool, maybe i should look into go
2020-11-12 17:07:16	jcowan	fvr
2020-11-12 17:07:18	aravk	there is one thing that I hate _so much_ about Go
2020-11-12 17:07:23	aravk	null pointers
2020-11-12 17:07:41	aravk	goddamnit null pointers are ARGHHHH
2020-11-12 17:07:43	jns	nullpointers are not exclusive to go unfortunately :)
2020-11-12 17:07:47	aravk	true
2020-11-12 17:07:59	aravk	but go has fixed tons of things
2020-11-12 17:08:00	ericonr	nihilazo: GOPATH sux
2020-11-12 17:08:02	acdw	boo
2020-11-12 17:08:03	ericonr	modules are neat
2020-11-12 17:08:10	jns	of course, null pointers are still better than a dangling pointer pointing to a random location in memory! at least you can check for a nullptr ;)
2020-11-12 17:08:16	nihilazo	GOPATH does suck
2020-11-12 17:08:19	aravk	the fact that they didn't fix NULL sucxs
2020-11-12 17:08:23	nihilazo	which is why it's good that go no longer really uses is
2020-11-12 17:08:29	nihilazo	but older go learning materials assume it still
2020-11-12 17:08:37	nihilazo	because it's a relatively recent change
2020-11-12 17:08:37	ericonr	jns: and null can break predictably, unlike random memory addresses
2020-11-12 17:08:52	aravk	jns: e.g. rust makes references which are typesystem-guaranteed-safe ptrs
2020-11-12 17:09:00	aravk	it's honestly brilliantw
2020-11-12 17:09:19	aravk	what sucks about GOPATH?
2020-11-12 17:09:38	ericonr	it's a really stupid way of setting up dependencies
2020-11-12 17:09:59	ericonr	and usually your source files also need to be in it
2020-11-12 17:10:33	aravk	can you give an example?
2020-11-12 17:10:35	ericonr	aravk: rust's design is indeed pretty cool with that stuff
2020-11-12 17:11:07	aravk	ericonr: I love Rust the language, hate Rust the ecosystem (oh and fuck cargo)
2020-11-12 17:11:08	ericonr	aravk: https://golang.org/doc/gopath_code.html
2020-11-12 17:11:13	aravk	thx
2020-11-12 17:11:31	ericonr	why, don't you love needing to fork dependencies in order to fix bugs? :P
2020-11-12 17:11:35	▬▬▶	FemmeAndroid has joined #gemini
2020-11-12 17:11:50	aravk	I wish that idea was built into the language
2020-11-12 17:12:05	insep	i hate rust the language (at least reading it, some of the stuff in it is pretty cool) and i hate rust the ecosystem
2020-11-12 17:12:14	nihilazo	GOPATH was a really dumb kinda thing
2020-11-12 17:12:14	aravk	like modifying the dep code or integrating a thin layer on top of it
2020-11-12 17:12:37	aravk	from what I understand Google has leaked its shittiness in
2020-11-12 17:12:40	ericonr	it comes with the territory of having your own package manager :/
2020-11-12 17:12:50	ericonr	also I kinda hate the build times
2020-11-12 17:13:04	ericonr	if I build two related projects I still need to rebuild a whole lot of shit
2020-11-12 17:13:18	ericonr	unless I setup the ccache equivalent which is a full blown server
2020-11-12 17:13:38	aravk	insep: my favorite parts of rust are everythin memory safety: references, ownership and borrowing, lifetimes, etc.
2020-11-12 17:13:55	nihilazo	go's module system seems pretty good
2020-11-12 17:14:01	nihilazo	as a replacement for gopath
2020-11-12 17:14:01	ericonr	insep: I think most distro people do :P
2020-11-12 17:14:16	nihilazo	I haven't come across anything that requires gopath in the wild so far but I've not been using go for long
2020-11-12 17:14:21	aravk	yes it's difficult to understand why it's needed (took me a few months) but once you get it it makes perfect sense
2020-11-12 17:14:27	nihilazo	it's mostly just outdated documentation that assumes it
2020-11-12 17:14:36	nihilazo	I tried learning rust and it was just so fuckin complicated
2020-11-12 17:14:44	aravk	it is, yes
2020-11-12 17:14:54	nihilazo	I had the same experience with haskell. To understand this language to make the most of it, is hard
2020-11-12 17:14:54	aravk	they've added a little too much stuff to it
2020-11-12 17:15:09	nihilazo	go is a very simple language, and I can understand reading go code after using it for less than a week
2020-11-12 17:15:14	aravk	but the ownership and borrowing stuff is weirdly hard to explain
2020-11-12 17:15:26	ericonr	nihilazo: rust is at least more useful than haskell\
2020-11-12 17:15:32	ericonr	for better or for worse 
2020-11-12 17:16:00	ericonr	aravk: ownership makes sense to me in the sense of "who's supposed to allocate and who's supposed to free this?"
2020-11-12 17:16:05	ericonr	at least that
2020-11-12 17:16:06	insep	ericonr: i've heard haskell is pretty good for writing parsers
2020-11-12 17:16:13	insep	also it's functional, some nerds like that
2020-11-12 17:16:16	aravk	that's exactly how you should interpret it erocnr
2020-11-12 17:16:38	aravk	but also think about e.g. file handle ownershipz
2020-11-12 17:16:52	aravk	sorry for mistypes, new keyboard
2020-11-12 17:17:04	ericonr	I can do that with my old keyboard just fine ;P
2020-11-12 17:17:07	ericonr	insep: lol
2020-11-12 17:17:39	aravk	entirely functional is bad
2020-11-12 17:17:51	nihilazo	I like functional
2020-11-12 17:17:56	aravk	I liked D's system of pure/impure functions
2020-11-12 17:18:00	aravk	wait
2020-11-12 17:18:07	aravk	I'm confusing different things
2020-11-12 17:18:09	aravk	nvm
2020-11-12 17:18:11	insep	i like d
2020-11-12 17:18:16	aravk	d is pretty cool
2020-11-12 17:18:16	insep	's attribute hell
2020-11-12 17:18:18	ericonr	I dislike D internals
2020-11-12 17:18:21	insep	including udas
2020-11-12 17:18:33	ericonr	I glanced at it to fix the package and wanted to run away screaming
2020-11-12 17:18:38	aravk	though it has a bunch of non-features, yeah
2020-11-12 17:18:55	ericonr	languages that want to interop with C really should learn to read C headers :p
2020-11-12 17:19:00	aravk	try finding the source of a C macro
2020-11-12 17:19:09	insep	ericonr: i think you also was the one who took a look at d's translation of unistd.h with me in #musl
2020-11-12 17:19:11	aravk	in 20 header files
2020-11-12 17:19:14	ericonr	instead of copying their shitty versions of those headers into their stupid language
2020-11-12 17:19:24	ericonr	insep: indeed
2020-11-12 17:19:34	acdw	insep: i mean haskell is what pandoc, Greatest Parser Ever, is written in
2020-11-12 17:19:52	ericonr	insep: tbh I have the same issue with Rust, but Rust is kinda bigger for now so more people are keeping their C declarations up to date
2020-11-12 17:19:56	insep	acdw: shellcheck
2020-11-12 17:20:10	acdw	lol
2020-11-12 17:20:12	acdw	that too
2020-11-12 17:20:17	insep	there's shellguard or whatever which is written in rust, but it sucks
2020-11-12 17:21:14	nihilazo	I like clojure's functional
2020-11-12 17:21:16	insep	ericonr: also there's https://github.com/atilaneves/dpp, it works perfectly fine as long as you don't look at output :D
2020-11-12 17:21:35	nihilazo	which is like, functional in ways that make sense but then allows site effects rather than using haskell's overcomplicated monad system
2020-11-12 17:21:45	nihilazo	it's a shame it's on the JVM because it's very nice
2020-11-12 17:23:27	ericonr	insep: well that looks like something people should be using :P
2020-11-12 17:32:43	insep	ericonr: let's just say it isn't the best at making final output look good
2020-11-12 17:33:08	insep	just as an random example from the internet https://github.com/denizzzka/d_c_arm_test/blob/master/d/freertos_dpp_bindings/freertos.d
2020-11-12 17:34:09	ericonr	oof
2020-11-12 17:34:14	ericonr	that's a lot of boilerplate
2020-11-12 17:34:15	insep	there's also dstep, it isn't as beautiful to use, but final output looks better imo
2020-11-12 17:38:40	boringcactus	ericonr: for Crowbar i'm probably going to eventually write a tool to semi-automatically translate C header files into Crowbar header files, but C headers don't always give as much information as Crowbar headers
2020-11-12 17:39:02	boringcactus	so i will be copying my shitty versions of headers into my stupid language
2020-11-12 17:39:27	ericonr	boringcactus: indeed; stuff like "can fail" and "never fails" for functions that return pointers, for example
2020-11-12 17:39:31	ericonr	buuut
2020-11-12 17:39:49	boringcactus	or "pointer to array with length defined by this other parameter" as opposed to just "pointer"
2020-11-12 17:40:01	ericonr	having your copy of C headers means C libraries can't add new stuff or change their stuff around without you making the changes locally as well
2020-11-12 17:40:13	ericonr	and it rots pretty damn quick
2020-11-12 17:41:10	boringcactus	yeah, i'm not quite sure how i'll handle that
2020-11-12 17:41:54	boringcactus	i do plan to eventually have a community-maintained repository of manually-translated headers for existing libraries, but that's. for the distant future
2020-11-12 17:42:02	boringcactus	since the language doesn't really exist yet
2020-11-12 17:49:27	jcowan	IMO there are quickly going to be very few places where manual allocation beats GC
2020-11-12 17:49:36	@tomasino	anyone spot any new amazing capsules worth reading?
2020-11-12 17:49:56	jcowan	I have programmed in C + GC, and it is completely delightful
2020-11-12 17:52:25	ericonr	jcowan: feels weird
2020-11-12 17:52:30	ericonr	i should try it, tho
2020-11-12 17:52:43	insep	boringcactus: encourage creation of autogenerated bindings
2020-11-12 18:09:54	acdw	tomasino: gem.acdw.net :)
2020-11-12 18:22:58	jcowan	It takes me back to the days when programs had plenty of memory, and leaks didn't matter much: they would all get cleaned up at the end of the program anyhow.
2020-11-12 18:23:26	jcowan	with libgc, malloc does what you expect and free does nothing
2020-11