America Online APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG Tuesday, January 1, 1991 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time Topic: Programming in the 90's - Open Discussion Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet) DevScott Well, I'm not yet very experienced at GS programming yet and I'm having a DevScott problem with setting up Pop Menu controls in a window DevScott that are already predefined in a resource. (Using TML II) Any ideas where DevScott I can get good information? DevScott <---- Having trouble with GS Toolbox Vol 3 AFA Gary J Are you looking for a specific answer on something, or just help in general on AFA Gary J those particular topics? DevScott General help now. I can do it if I don't pre-define the resource but DevScott I don't know where to begin once the resource is defined. AFA Gary J Matt, just to fill you in on the problem, DevScott is having problems setting AFA Gary J up Pop up menu controls in a window predefined in a resource. AFA Gary J He's using TML II. Matt DTS It's not too incredibly difficult. Fidgeter includes a pop-up menu control in a window resource. DevScott What's Fidgeter? Matt DTS A sample program I wrote that appeared in the Sept. 1989 issue of Call -A.P.P.L.E. magazine. DevScott I think I may happen to have that magazine...I'll check it out. AFA Gary J Thanks for the help, Matt. DevScott Thanks all... FeinDavid Next Q? FeinDavid We ready for the next topic? I have one... AFL Dyfet Go ahead David :) Matt DTS (You might not have noticed, but David has a question. :) AFA Gary J :) FeinDavid I am writing two CDAs, and they are both specifically for the ROM 3 GS. Right FeinDavid now, I want to have the CDA check the machine ROM version, and if the rom is FeinDavid not greater than 3, I would like to remove the CDA. I have all of the code FeinDavid figured out, except what I would actually have to do to make them disappear. FeinDavid Is it possible for a CDA to remove itself, and is there a simple way FeinDavid of having a CDA remove like the "undocumented" way of having a PIF remove, and FeinDavid lastly, is this the best idea, or can anyone think of a better one? Matt DTS You'd best wait for mail from Dave Lyons on that topic. The main problem is that RemoveCDA doesn't Matt DTS remove the CDAs from memory. One way to do it is to write a permanent init that calls InstallCDA and Matt DTS use the permanent init mechanism to not be permanent if the ROM version isn't 03 or later, but Matt DTS that doesn't work for private INITs when you boot over AppleShare. (And it's not "undocumented", it's Matt DTS in the file type note for file type $B6). Matt DTS The first question that needs to be asked is "What kind of CDA doesn't work right on ROM 01?" AFA Gary J :) AFL Dyfet :) FeinDavid Hummm..... Who cares about appleshare? (I will IM the answer to your q.) AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any other questions for tonight?? FeinDavid Anyone have any other ideas, or suggestions for what I should do if I find a FeinDavid ROM 1 GS? Someone suggested that I just bring up a screen that says "Only ROM3" Matt DTS People who have AppleShare care about AppleShare! What kind of boneheaded question is that? Matt DTS Just because you don't have it means you feel justified in crashing the machines of people who do? Matt DTS Wrong answer. AFA Gary J :) FeinDavid Relax Matt... I said that in jest.... Matt DTS Oh, in that case, so did I. :) Matt DTS On a ROM 01 machine you can call the entry point FF/1800, I think) to install the CDAs and exit. Or Matt DTS simply do nothing. You don't have to provide a digitized recording of James Earl Jones saying "You Matt DTS must have a ROM 03 Apple IIgs Personal Computer built after August 1989 to use this Classic Desk Matt DTS Accessory." FeinDavid 8) AFL Dyfet GA Scott... AFL Scott I've been looking around and I can't seem to find any information on Message Center message types. AFL Scott Where is the best place to look for that information? Matt DTS Scott: Matt DTS There are only a handful of publicly-documented Message Types, and they're all in the various Matt DTS Toolbox Reference Manuals. Other message numbers you might find are either 3rd-party or Apple Matt DTS private messages, which aren't documented because you shouldn't go fiddling with them. AFL Scott Hmmm... The one I was most interested in what Message type 1... but I couldn't find anything on that AFL Scott message type... The reason I was looking for it was to set my auxtype bits reliably. Matt DTS For example, in my system right now, I have two messages. One is MessageByName ("DAL Systems: Nifty Matt DTS List Service" and the other is a private message (it actually contains the handle to FastFont for Matt DTS QD's usage). Matt DTS One is public, the other isn't. That's why it's not documented. Matt DTS Message Type 1 is the "files" message and is pretty clearly documented under "MessageCenter" in Toolbo Matt DTS Reference Volume 2. AFL Scott I'll look again. Thanks, Matt. Matt DTS (the only ambiguity is that all the strings are actually entire pathnames, which isn't clear.) AFL Scott Thanks. :) Done. AFL Marty I have a suggestion/question for FeinDavid... AFL Marty Why go through all that trouble with PIFs? Why not allow your CDA... AFL Marty to be installed on either GS and just jump to a routine that AFL Marty exits with a message about ROM versions if it's installed on the AFL Marty wrong one? AFL Marty (If it's selected, that is.) FeinDavid I like to be neat, and on the edge of technology? 8) I don't know.. I could, FeinDavid or I could just change the CDA title to "NOT A ROM 3!" and begin it with a RTL. Matt DTS (Or even just change the title to "Do Nothing" if you're on a ROM 01 machine. :) AFL Marty Soundmaster does this sort of thing if you try to access it AFL Marty without AOL active. FeinDavid I like that idea. AFL Dyfet Or it can say "buy me a new machine" :) AFA Gary J :) FeinDavid Or possibly do a fake reboot with ROM 3 on the bottom of the screen? he he 8) FeinDavid then wait 20 seconds, and return to the cda menu. AFA Gary J That would go over real well :) AFL Marty (or say something about formatting the AppleShare volume :) AFA Gary J LOL! Matt DTS Next...? AFL Dyfet I think we can move on to the next question :)...GA Unpleasant... Unpleasant I'm writing a two player game in assembly language and I'd like to make it possible to play it over Unpleasant the modem. Unfortunately, I have zip experience with modem Unpleasant programming and I'd like the names of some good Unpleasant reference manuals that would get me started. Unpleasant I'd like to make it available for both the GS Modem port and internal modems. Unpleasant Anyone have any recommendations? AFL Dyfet Well, if your willing to work in a very general sense with the existing device AFL Dyfet drivers, and are not too worried about carrier detect or 8 bit binary data AFL Dyfet streams, it can be done.... AFL Dyfet In that case you would basically send and receive text strings through the AFL Dyfet appropriate GS/OS device driver, send ATDT xxx to dial, read the result code AFL Dyfet line, and then use some kind of simple line oriented protocol for sending AFL Dyfet messages back and forth between the machines.... AFL Dyfet You could program something like that fairly easily in any high level language. Unpleasant Where can I find out how to address the device drivers? Matt DTS "GS/OS Reference", from Addison-Wesley. Unpleasant Is there a modem device driver that you address in a generic manner? AFL Dyfet The Firmware reference manual can tell you about control sequences you can AFL Dyfet send to the port to set baud rate/etc.... AFL Dyfet I don't know if those work through the GS/OS genorated device off-hand, though. Matt DTS They do, but you MUST first check the characteristics to be sure it's a generated driver. Unpleasant Ok, thanks, I'll check those out and see if they help. Unpleasant done AFL Dyfet GA A2... A2GS I'm kind of confused about a few things related to Driver...specifically A2GS Printer Drivers.....in the System.Disk Drivers folder there is a file called A2GS "Printer" and another file which is called "Imagewriter"....is the "Printer" A2GS file the generic device driver for printers handling Device calls (ex. DWrite, A2GS DRead) and the Imagewriter handles specific printing options related to the A2GS Imagewriter like for printing graphics, etc....??? A2GS GA Matt DTS "ImageWriter" is the printer driver, "Printer" is the port driver. To print to an ImageWriter through Matt DTS the printer port, in the DirectConnect CDev you select both "ImageWriter" and "Printer". Matt DTS Neither is a GS/OS driver (DRead, DWrite, etc.). You need to read the File Type Note for file type Matt DTS $BB (drivers) to get a handle on the various (four or five) different kinds of drivers in that folder. Matt DTS (GA) A2GS But they have a filetype of $BB....so they are drivers....how are they setup A2GS then....do they contain DIB's, etc...? A2GS GA Matt DTS They have different auxiliary types. You need to read the file type note for file type $BB to get Matt DTS a handle on the various different kinds of drivers in that folder. (GA) A2GS ok....will look into it....thanx A2GS done AFL Dyfet Okay, GA Speedlimit :) SPEEDLIMIT Has anyone noticed that 5.04 cause the old INTRUPTS problem online here again SPEEDLIMIT I thought I saw this happen last week... but... last night when I SPEEDLIMIT was donwloading it was the same old same old... wondering if this was SPEEDLIMIT happening to others with the new System disk SPEEDLIMIT GA AFL Dyfet GA Matt Matt DTS This part of the system disk was NOT CHANGED between 5.0.3 and 5.0.4. It should behave the same Matt DTS way under both (which is, it puts up a dialog saying "something may be wrong", and pressing Matt DTS returns you to where you were). Matt DTS (GA) SPEEDLIMIT I would have tholught so also... until I saw it happening to me... :/ Matt DTS It could be a problem with the America Online software beyond what we've previously seen. SPEEDLIMIT Wait... Wait... I thought that the Sign thingee was done away with on SPEEDLIMIT 5.03... I know that I didn't have the problem with 5.03... on the SPEEDLIMIT downloads that is Matt DTS I'm telling you that Apple did not change that behavior between 5.0.3 and 5.0.4. Matt DTS The release notes seem to indicate the dialog is supposed to be gone, but that was not my belief. Matt DTS I thought it put up an alert that said something may be wrong, but gets you out of it. Matt DTS That's in the core of GS/OS itself, and this did not change for 5.0.4. I suggest you check out your Matt DTS installation and make sure something cosmically unexplained hasn't happened to you. SPEEDLIMIT Matt... yes that is they way it works... hitting the Return Key... but I SPEEDLIMIT didn't have the problem with 5.03... that is I didn't have to hit the Return SPEEDLIMIT key... now I'm stuck by the computer when I download again... What a Drag :( Matt DTS Then you just didn't hit the 65536 unclaimed interrupts level. (It usually only happens while Matt DTS downloading, I understand). It did NOT change. Really. Matt DTS (GA) SPEEDLIMIT Oaty... I will check it... thanks Matt SPEEDLIMIT Done AFL Dyfet Okay, GA PeacesSign PeaceSign Does anyone know of an error code listing for the GS self-test? FeinDavid In one of the latest tech notes there is a complete list of the error codes. Matt DTS Apple IIgs Technical Note #95, "ROM Diagnostic Errors". FeinDavid Thanx matt. PeaceSign This is in the d/l library? PeaceSign d/l = download AFA Gary J Yes FeinDavid should be under "FROM APPLE" AFA Gary J (It is in the "From Apple" library) FeinDavid too late gary. FeinDavid he he AFA Gary J In the Apple IIGS section :) AFL Dyfet :) AFA Gary J (Fumble fingers here :) PeaceSign So I can look up the BAD SYSTEM error code in this file. right? AFA Gary J Do you know the error number? (I have the note sitting in front of me) AFA Gary J I'll tell you if it's there :) PeaceSign Yes... PeaceSign 0200 FF00 PeaceSign That was the 1st one. PeaceSign 0C00 0001 was the other one we got. AFA Gary J Well, it's there :) The error codes are organized in such a way that you AFA Gary J piece them together by the bytes of the error code number. Matt DTS 0200FF00 = RAM failure in bank zero. Matt DTS 0C000001 = Sound RAM data error PeaceSign Thanks all! I'm done. Hope everyone had a HAPPY NEW YEAR!! AFL Dyfet GA Marty.... AFL Marty Speaking of technotes... AFL Marty When do you think the November issues will be available? AFL Marty (GA) AFA Gary J Good question :) AFA Gary J (I was going to ask the same one.) Matt DTS The November TNs were mailed to partners and associates in November. The text file versions are Matt DTS "freebies" done by DTS people on their own time as a favor to online services. No one's had time yet. AFA Gary J That's what I thought :) FeinDavid Has anyone received any programming information on the Zip GSX? Zip promised FeinDavid me some, and they never sent them to me. I know other people are waiting too, FeinDavid like Glen Bredon... He wants to implement some speed changes into ProSEL-16. FeinDavid ga. FeinDavid I guess no one. FeinDavid ga. AFA Gary J Have you tried contacting Zip? AFA Gary J (lately) FeinDavid Yes. The Zipper said he would send some out to me, and didn't seem to do so. FeinDavid I contact him online. Maybe that is the mistake. FeinDavid Thank you for all of your wonderful support Matt! FeinDavid Any other questions anyone? Matt DTS FeinDavid Yeah.... now that I think of it. FeinDavid Is it safe to remove an ABD device on the IIgs with the power on? I have alway FeinDavid s been doing that, and I have had a few people tell me it is dangerous. I don't FeinDavid think so, but what the hey. FeinDavid like my turbomouse... AFA Gary J I've had my machine lock up on me in doing that by accident. Matt DTS It is definitely dangerous on the Mac, but I don't know for sure on the IIgs. AFA Gary J But, of course, the device I accidently removed was my keyboard :) Matt DTS There is power trickling through the ADB bus, so you're taking your chances. FeinDavid Should I worry? AFA Gary J Yes. You have reason to worry :) FeinDavid ok. I'll worry. AFA Gary J (Loose some sleep on that one :) FeinDavid Yeah... right... FeinDavid BTW Matt, did you know that the little Finder Easter Egg is not in the FeinDavid french version of 5.0.2 finder? FeinDavid basically Finder version F-1 1.3. FeinDavid I recently ran the french 5.0.2 just for the fun of it... Strange.. AFL Dyfet How so David? FeinDavid Do you know about the "About the system..." easter egg in the finder? FeinDavid Well, if you press I think it is Shift and Option while you pull down the FeinDavid apple menu, ABOUT THE SYSTEM should show up instead of ABOUT THE FINDER. FeinDavid That will list all of the names of everyone who worked on 5.0+, and if you FeinDavid click on the name "Apple II" at the top of the dialog box, (rom 3 only), Matt DTS (It lists the people in the engineering group at the time 5.0 was released.) FeinDavid the computer will play a digitized sound of people yelling "APPLE II!". FeinDavid But it is not in the French version of the finder. Yet the French "The Guide" FeinDavid specifically tells everyone about this easter egg. Strange..... BCS Frank Wondered what all that extra ROM was for. :) FeinDavid Naw, the sound is only about 5K long I believe... I removed it a while ago. BCS Frank Is it in 5.0.4? Spottysoft Would think 5.0.4 does Frank.... it's still the same Finder (v1.3 ??) FeinDavid 5.0.4 still does. it is the same finder. Spottysoft Andy Nicholas hasn't had enough time to digest all that source code yet :) AFA Gary J That is strange. AFL Scott Is the reason newly assigned aux types didn't have their description in FType.Aux because the software AFL Scott (system software that is) was signed off prior to Applefest? Matt DTS The File Type Descriptors for 5.0.3 were frozen in early June. They did not change for 5.0.4. Matt DTS That's why you can supply your own FTDs and they take precedence over the system's. AFL Scott So, I can ship an Ftype file of my own, then? I was under the impression that doing so wasn't a AFL Scott good thing? Matt DTS Did you actually read the FTD File Type note ($42)? It clearly states shipping your own is encouraged Matt DTS since Apple can't update the system software all that often. AFL Scott I don't have $42... maybe that's why I didn't read it. :( AFL Scott I'll download it and read it. I already have an FType file ready to go so I'm covered... Thanks, AFL Scott Mr. Fein! Thanks for clearing that up, Matt. FeinDavid Where's you get that? he he he AFA Gary J Wait, if the FTD file takes precidence over the systems, how can multiple AFA Gary J releases of the file from different vendors be supported? (Maybe I don't AFA Gary J understand exactly how this works :) Matt DTS You don't. :) Matt DTS Vendors should release FTDs that contain only their file type descriptions. For example, Matt DTS FType.Hypercard contains exactly one entry - $55/$0001 - "Hypercard Stack". That then takes Matt DTS precedence over the generic $55 entry in FType.Main - "Hypermedia document" Matt DTS AFA Gary J Oh! (I thought there could be only one "FType.Main" and a "FType.Aux" and AFA Gary J that's all. (That explains it :) Thanks. Matt DTS The file names are totally irrelevant. Read the note. AFA Gary J Ok :) FeinDavid For some strange reason, using Disk Access, and the Ftype.Hypercard, the scan FeinDavid through the filetypes seems to slow down to half speed. and is terribly slow. FeinDavid I haven't check to see if the finder is also so slow... But I did track it FeinDavid down to only happening with a Ftype with only one entry. Matt DTS It could be a bug in the way Steve wrote the FTD searching code. It doesn't slow down the Finder Matt DTS in any noticeable way. (Of course, I wrote that code, so naturally it's perfect. :) FeinDavid Gosh... what an ego! 8) FeinDavid I'll check with steve.