You can inspire change to happen, but you cannot shame change to happen.
5 months ago 路 馃憤 eph, superfxchip
Nice resolution there. Yes, that makes sense. Shaming can produce feigning, hiding, or even worse, it can become internalized into the subconscious. This topic of extrinsic versus intrinsic motivation reminds me of the parable of the plank and a poem titled something like "If You Would Change The World Then Change Yourself." 路 5 months ago
@bencollver Maybe I just wasn't very clear in my original post, leading to the mix up of feeling shame with sham*ing*. To shame change means to inflict change with shame. It's an action. "To feel shame" is not encompased in "shaming change". The former is something that someone feels regardless of any action taken upon that person, while the latter is an action someone does *to* another person. Hopefully that makes sense. 路 5 months ago
@bencollver Well, that's exactly what I was saying, lol. Shame is not very effective for convincing people of things. And about the inspiration part - if someone tried to force inspiration, then that's not inspirational. What we're really talking about here is leading by example, not by punishment. Use the carrot, not the stick. Inspire, don't shame. Show, don't tell. Practice what you preach. Explain, don't dictate. Rule or parent by love, not fear. 路 5 months ago
Shame is not a tool at all. It is an emotion. "Getting people to change in a certain way" sounds a lot like manipulation to me. I don't blame people for holding even tighter when facing manipulation. Likewise, if someone came at me full blast saying "And now we shall have an inspirational moment!" I'd probably feel some push-back then too. 路 5 months ago
@bencollver There are two reasons why shame is not very effective as a tool for getting people to change a certain way. One is that shame strips someone of their dignity and more often than not just pits them against you (called defensiveness). The other is because of confirmation bias, which has two sides. When someone has a belief, they search out for examples, life experiences, people they know, etc., that agree with their belief and discount or ignore the examples that disagree with their belief. The other side to this is that people who are prone to confirmation bias, when confronted with counter-examples that disprove their beliefs, will hold even tighter to those beliefs. 路 5 months ago
All emotions have gifts to offer. I know a father who quit smoking cold turkey after his daughter refused to hug him because he stunk of tobacco. That would be an example of positive change resulting from shame. Maybe it worked because he was internally motivated and his shame was sincere. Scale is an interesting question. Can you think of examples where a whole society was collectively ashamed or inspired? 路 5 months ago
@bencollver I don't understand what you are getting at. Inspiring change is not the same as inevitable change. Inspiration is trying to affect a *specific type* of change on the world or people in general. It seems you're being too relative or nihilistic, and so lose the distinction of what causes change and different types of change. Sometimes change is good, and sometimes it is bad. To say "Change is inevitable" doesn't qualify change and is really just saying an obvious thing that philosophers have figured out over 2500 years ago. Yes, change is inevitable. But the type of change matters, and at what scale matters (human change is a different thing from atomic change!) 路 5 months ago
Inspiration? Shame? Change doesn't care about that. Change is inevitable. 路 5 months ago