2019-10-15T08:20:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rust's build sources are now cached properly. https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/b0f591d15e20fec7c6b8a8698bcca0b5c840f6ac
2019-10-15T08:20:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All external sources are now tracked and verified with checksums (and my gpg signature if enabled).
2019-10-15T08:20:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Every package!).
2019-10-15T08:46:17 #kisslinux <kahuna[m]> Hello, what about the concept of https://reproducible-builds.org/ ? Does the philosophy of KISSlinux care about it ?
2019-10-15T08:47:09 #kisslinux <konimex> kahuna[m]: since KISS for now is a primarily a source-based distro, I think it's not applicable
2019-10-15T08:47:13 #kisslinux <konimex> who knows in the future
2019-10-15T08:50:24 #kisslinux <kahuna[m]> @konimex source-based distro could also promote reproducible-build software even if you don't share binaries
2019-10-15T08:51:32 #kisslinux <konimex> I don't really know about this, but with CFLAGS shenanigans possible here that won't be possible isn't it?
2019-10-15T08:52:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nope.
2019-10-15T08:52:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Same goes for changing configure flags.
2019-10-15T08:53:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also dependency versions.
2019-10-15T08:53:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's up and down the software chain in its entirety.
2019-10-15T08:53:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reproducible builds are a bandaid for shipping binaries to users and not applicable here anyway.
2019-10-15T08:59:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Besides, build systems themselves are defaulting to reproducible builds and over time things should "just work" (assuming same CFLAGS etc).
2019-10-15T09:00:21 #kisslinux <kahuna[m]> Reproducible-builds concept is quite general and the main idea of it is to prove that under some stable and deterministic environment source code have to produce exact the same binaries all the time
2019-10-15T09:00:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reproducible builds are useless if the source used is already backdoored though.
2019-10-15T09:01:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It actually backfires here as the "attacker" can then verify that everyone is using their infected source.
2019-10-15T09:02:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Producing the exact same binaries only works if all variables are set to a fixed value, the same compiler/linker flags are used and if every single dependency follows this too.
2019-10-15T09:02:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's something that just isn't compatible with a source based distribution which offers compile time customization to users.
2019-10-15T09:05:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Updating a single tiny package means rebuilding **everything** that links to it. Even if it is a minor release.
2019-10-15T09:06:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reproducible builds only make sense for when you as a user have to trust binaries from your distribution.
2019-10-15T09:06:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> NOW
2019-10-15T09:06:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I will look into this for our chroot tarballs used for installation.
2019-10-15T09:06:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It makes sense here as the environment is "fixed" and binaries are distributed.
2019-10-15T09:06:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2019-10-15T09:06:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Gardening time.
2019-10-15T09:09:20 #kisslinux <kahuna[m]> <dylanaraps "I will look into this for our ch"> let me know if you need any help with that
2019-10-15T09:20:57 #kisslinux <kahuna[m]> <dylanaraps "Reproducible builds only make se"> not only sometimes just a fact that software could be reproducible-build is enough to make on it some various customizations - this is the easy way how "attackers" are actually detected by open source communities
2019-10-15T09:46:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> kahuna[m]: Will do.
2019-10-15T11:34:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I commented my window manager's source: https://github.com/dylanaraps/sowm/blob/master/sowm.c
2019-10-15T12:32:12 #kisslinux <konimex> let's hope there won't be questions along the lines of "why not Rust™?"
2019-10-15T12:40:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If rust's install size, build time and overall disk size were comparable to GCC I probably would've considered rust a long time ago.
2019-10-15T12:40:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss-size rust | tail -1
2019-10-15T12:40:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 447.3M  total
2019-10-15T12:40:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss-size gcc | tail -1
2019-10-15T12:40:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 142.7M  total
2019-10-15T12:40:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss-size binutils | tail -1
2019-10-15T12:40:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 29.1M   total
2019-10-15T12:41:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Seeing as it also depends on LLVM:
2019-10-15T12:41:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss-size llvm | tail -1
2019-10-15T12:41:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 212.1M  total
2019-10-15T12:41:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (This is a small build of LLVM too, no compiler-rt, libunwind, etc etc etc)
2019-10-15T12:43:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Needing external/third-party bindings to Xlib is also a reason to use C.
2019-10-15T12:43:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> With C it's 270 sloc and compiles to 24kb.
2019-10-15T12:44:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Dunno, we'll see what the future holds with rust.
2019-10-15T12:44:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lots of optimizations of build times in the next release.
2019-10-15T12:44:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hopefully size decreases too.
2019-10-15T12:54:24 #kisslinux <konimex> oh, and also "why not Wayland™"?
2019-10-15T12:55:09 #kisslinux <konimex> but yeah, hope rust is "stabilized" and gcc-rust can finally go live
2019-10-15T13:12:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I would love that.
2019-10-15T13:13:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The idea of a "window manager" just doesn't exist under Wayland.
2019-10-15T13:14:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So that answers that question.
2019-10-15T13:34:52 #kisslinux <retard> all hail the mighty Composer™
2019-10-15T13:39:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> Libunwind and compiler-rt are tiny so your small build isn't much smaller than a "big build"
2019-10-15T13:40:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> libc++ and abi are also like less than 10 added mb from what I can tell
2019-10-15T13:42:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Still a size increase over the number I gave (which is why I mentioned it).
2019-10-15T13:42:46 #kisslinux <raph_ael> arcan seems cool, but not sure it's totally usable https://arcan-fe.com/2018/10/17/arcan-versus-xorg-approaching-feature-parity/
2019-10-15T13:43:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've seen it, very interesting.
2019-10-15T13:45:44 #kisslinux <retard> i had not! very interesting
2019-10-15T14:06:18 #kisslinux <raph_ael> http://deaddrop.ftp.sh/t-njy74RKMbd.jpg
2019-10-15T14:07:30 #kisslinux <raph_ael> dylanaraps: just a suggestion, for sowm, I'd have created a config.def.h instead of a config.h, which let people do their modifications with botherings at next pull
2019-10-15T14:07:43 #kisslinux <raph_ael> s/with/without
2019-10-15T14:08:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will do.
2019-10-15T14:09:01 #kisslinux <raph_ael> thanks, was just an idea :)
2019-10-15T14:14:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Done.
2019-10-15T14:14:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :)
2019-10-15T14:15:33 #kisslinux <raph_ael> thanks !
2019-10-15T14:33:45 #kisslinux <raph_ael> dylanaraps: now you can change the doc from "Modify config.h to suit your needs." "Copy config.def.h to config.h and modify it to suits your needs." :)
2019-10-15T14:35:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oops. Always forget the documentation.
2019-10-15T14:38:16 #kisslinux <raph_ael> me too :)
2019-10-15T15:36:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "I don’t think C gets enough credit. Sure, C doesn’t love you. C isn’t about love–C is about thrills. C hangs around in the bad part of town. C knows all the gang signs. C has a motorcycle, and wears the leathers everywhere, and never wears a helmet, because that would mess up C’s punked-out hair. C likes to give cops the finger and grin and speed away. Mention that you’d like
2019-10-15T15:36:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> something, and C will pretend to ignore you; the next day, C will bring you one, no questions asked, and toss it to you with a you-know-you-want-me smirk that makes your heart race. Where did C get it? “It fell off a truck,” C says, putting away the boltcutters. You start to feel like C doesn’t know the meaning of “private” or “protected”: what C wants, C takes. This excites you. C
2019-10-15T15:36:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> knows how to get you anything but safety. C will give you anything but commitment"
2019-10-15T15:36:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "In the end, you’ll leave C, not because you want something better, but because you can’t handle the intensity. C says “I’m gonna live fast, die young, and leave a good-looking corpse,” but you know that C can never die, not so long as C is still the fastest thing on the road."
2019-10-15T15:36:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2019-10-15T17:06:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> nestman: https://github.com/dylanaraps/sowm/blob/master/patches/sowm-normal-kill.patch
2019-10-15T20:04:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reading a mailing list thread from 1999 and saw this:
2019-10-15T20:04:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
2019-10-15T20:04:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh how things have changed.
2019-10-15T20:17:06 #kisslinux <raph_ael> some people are almost religious with C
2019-10-15T20:49:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm having a lot of fun with it for the first time.
2019-10-15T22:01:13 #kisslinux <axpira> Hi, to auto load kernel modules require any settings?