2021-02-16T00:00:06 #kisslinux <acheam> Right, thats what I meant by the package manager defining kiss
2021-02-16T00:14:31 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeah i guess i can see that logic, im also not sure if we really need a community governence tho?
2021-02-16T00:15:30 #kisslinux <necromansy> unless giving tasks to specific people *is* community governance
2021-02-16T00:17:34 #kisslinux <acheam> I'd call that community governance
2021-02-16T00:17:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> KISS is explicitly its guidestones tho
2021-02-16T00:17:44 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeah aight
2021-02-16T00:22:21 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> one of kiss guidestones is free speech
2021-02-16T00:23:07 #kisslinux <necromansy> id argue its more common sense than free speech
2021-02-16T00:23:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> nope, it was explicit
2021-02-16T00:28:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> "There shall never be rules centred around speech or the way in which one must
2021-02-16T00:28:31 #kisslinux <dilyn>   carry themselves to communicate. Do unto others as you would have them do
2021-02-16T00:28:31 #kisslinux <dilyn>   unto you." it's explicit
2021-02-16T00:29:56 #kisslinux <necromansy> imo there's a difference between free speech and no rules on speech but "do unto others..."
2021-02-16T00:30:07 #kisslinux <necromansy> i do agree its explicit about no rules ON speech tho
2021-02-16T00:30:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> that's usually what I take 'free speech' to mean
2021-02-16T00:33:38 #kisslinux <necromansy> at least the base intepretation is obvious tho, which is important lol
2021-02-16T00:40:46 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> Question to all you who talk a lot here - do you always keep a client open? What about when you go to sleep - the next day do you go and check the logs to see what people talked about?
2021-02-16T00:41:21 #kisslinux <necromansy> when im actively trying be in here, yeah that's what i do, i check the freenode logs online to catch up
2021-02-16T00:42:07 #kisslinux <Rio6> I just have a weechat tmux session on one of my servers, and ssh in to talk
2021-02-16T00:42:17 #kisslinux <Rio6> or use weechat-android o phone, which has ssh tunnel support
2021-02-16T00:42:22 #kisslinux <Rio6> s/o/on
2021-02-16T00:42:23 #kisslinux <kissbot> <Rio6> onr use weechat-android o phone, which has ssh tunnel support
2021-02-16T00:42:36 #kisslinux <Rio6> bot doesn't work :p
2021-02-16T00:42:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> Usually i'll just read the logs and chime in when I have something to say
2021-02-16T00:43:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> But lately I've been using my laptop instead of my phone so I've actually been logged haha
2021-02-16T00:54:21 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> phoebos: i use this matrix client on my mobile. so always connected. https://element.io
2021-02-16T00:55:15 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> and a desktop client while at work.
2021-02-16T01:02:00 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> but yeah…  nothing like 200+ notifications on my mobile in the morning :)
2021-02-16T01:03:14 #kisslinux <E5ten> lol I use the same but I leave notifs off
2021-02-16T01:06:12 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> E5ten: i did that for a while… but then I kept forgetting to check the logs. gotta stay on top of that shit.  lol
2021-02-16T01:08:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> fair enough
2021-02-16T01:28:03 #kisslinux <acheam> I do the weechat in ssh thing, except take it a step further... weechat is connected to a znc server so that I can connect my phone
2021-02-16T01:29:28 #kisslinux <necromansy> im legit just using kirc in dvtm
2021-02-16T01:29:29 #kisslinux <necromansy> lel
2021-02-16T01:30:27 #kisslinux <noocsharp> ive only been on irc for a few weeks, but ive been using plain old ii
2021-02-16T01:30:42 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> oh. i am definitely biased to that solution. ^^
2021-02-16T01:33:31 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i started off using kirc, but im not a fan of the default channel mechanism. sorry :P
2021-02-16T01:34:02 #kisslinux <necromansy> ive tried using ii but found the file system structure odd to use
2021-02-16T01:34:09 #kisslinux <necromansy> might return to it and give it another run tho
2021-02-16T01:34:18 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> noocsharp: lol. no offense take. :P.
2021-02-16T01:34:28 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> taken*
2021-02-16T01:34:34 #kisslinux <necromansy> also speaking of bias im also using xwm @mcpcpc
2021-02-16T01:34:36 #kisslinux <necromansy> :>
2021-02-16T01:34:49 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> o/
2021-02-16T01:35:22 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i think a proper tui on top of ii would be ideal
2021-02-16T01:35:49 #kisslinux <necromansy> have you looked at any of the wrapper scripts, like uh, jj? i think one is called
2021-02-16T01:37:28 #kisslinux <noocsharp> not really, i probably should tho
2021-02-16T01:42:26 #kisslinux <necromansy> they're interesting, i didnt dive into too many tho
2021-02-16T01:59:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> so s6-rc-init complained about my database on that bootup, which is progress...
2021-02-16T01:59:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> and getty segfaults. which is weird
2021-02-16T02:01:10 #kisslinux <acheam> was it able to boot?
2021-02-16T02:07:39 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah it's always been able to boot
2021-02-16T02:08:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> but after the kernel hands off to init i get a line that says 's6-linux-init' or w/e and then it doesn't dump me into a tty. it doesn't hang, it's responsive, it just doesn't go to getty or something I guess?
2021-02-16T02:08:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> I changed some stuff in the init script and s6-rc and got this new development, tho. so perhaps it's progress?
2021-02-16T02:10:28 #kisslinux <acheam> don't you just have one machine? How do you do these risky modifications to your system?
2021-02-16T02:16:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> an arch live ISO I keep in my back pocket xD
2021-02-16T02:36:43 #kisslinux <necromansy> that's what i usually do, i've had to boot from the ISO so many times lmao
2021-02-16T02:47:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah lol I have an arch ISO in my backpack that I just leave there always in case I ever fuck something up and need to save myself (although I do have a windows dual boot I can use to put the ISO on a usb, so access to any usb is enough to save myself)
2021-02-16T04:28:47 #kisslinux <acheam> pretty embarrasing, literally all three commits i've made to this PR in repo-community, i've forgotten the kiss style guide, and named my commits badly, needing to force push fixes
2021-02-16T05:00:07 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> acheam: Happens :p
2021-02-16T05:00:39 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> should a workflow be made for creating an issue and tagging maintainers for outdated packages?
2021-02-16T05:01:28 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i can probably do it, but it'll have to be in Python since my shell skills are pretty bad
2021-02-16T05:12:20 #kisslinux <acheam> sure
2021-02-16T07:52:44 #kisslinux <necromansy> is the output of kiss maintainer useable for tagging maintainers?
2021-02-16T07:52:52 #kisslinux <necromansy> like directly
2021-02-16T07:54:50 #kisslinux <tink> There is an entry in Kiss FAQ about "Why can't I start Xorg as a normal user?" but I don't know what it implicates. Without su, I can do sx but I see a black screen. Technically I started X but I can't interact with sowm. If I do sx as root, it works though; so does it mean that I can't start Xorg as a normal user or is there another issue?
2021-02-16T07:57:31 #kisslinux <necromansy> this is gonna sound like a dumb q, but do you have a .xinitrc in your $HOME?
2021-02-16T07:59:31 #kisslinux <necromansy> or rather, since you're using sx (am dumb and didn't read that part), you got the needed files in $HOME?
2021-02-16T08:00:34 #kisslinux <necromansy> i dont use sx so im not sure if thats the issue or if its one with xorg
2021-02-16T08:01:26 #kisslinux <tink> I remember following the sx guide on k1ss.net, let me check it again
2021-02-16T08:03:31 #kisslinux <tink> Oh, I think I ran the echo command for XDG_DATA_HOME as root because in ~/.profile it says /root/.config
2021-02-16T08:03:52 #kisslinux <necromansy> that might be why yeah
2021-02-16T08:04:21 #kisslinux <necromansy> dumb shit like that happens to the best of us lmao
2021-02-16T08:07:07 #kisslinux <tink> Yeah it works now, hahah thanks
2021-02-16T08:08:15 #kisslinux <necromansy> np!
2021-02-16T08:15:23 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> <necromansy "is the output of kiss maintainer"> no it gives the name used in git config which is not always the same as github name
2021-02-16T08:15:32 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> so we need to query the github api for each maint
2021-02-16T08:15:43 #kisslinux <necromansy> gross
2021-02-16T08:30:28 #kisslinux <necromansy> poking around with the api, it seems like best option is grab the last person to make a commit
2021-02-16T08:30:46 #kisslinux <necromansy> idk how to automate tagging them short of using git cli?
2021-02-16T09:00:44 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> tagging them as in making an issue with "@maintainer" followed by package name
2021-02-16T09:00:58 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> you can do that in a script given you have access to the git repo
2021-02-16T09:05:53 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> its same as  how i manually make issues with scripts right now, just need to make a single script for workflow
2021-02-16T09:26:02 #kisslinux <necromansy> you use python for those scripts atm?
2021-02-16T09:28:18 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i redirect kiss outdated to a file and then run my python script on that
2021-02-16T09:29:27 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i just need to reimplement kiss outdated in python and put all packages under their maintainer's name in order cuz the current script just spits out "maintainer, package" multiple times instead of listing all packages at once
2021-02-16T09:30:07 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeye aight, im cobbling together something that can get up to the "here's last committ author for x outdated package"
2021-02-16T09:30:11 #kisslinux <necromansy> at least in shell
2021-02-16T09:30:22 #kisslinux <necromansy> idk about how to approach the making an issue part yet
2021-02-16T09:30:28 #kisslinux <necromansy> idk much about github api lmao
2021-02-16T09:31:06 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i can implement the part where it shows the name from git log and package in shell, but tagging maintainers and mapping the names from git log to them is what idk how to do in shell
2021-02-16T09:32:06 #kisslinux <necromansy> welp guess we're in the same position then, i'll stop walking the trodden path
2021-02-16T09:32:33 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://github.com/git-bruh/kiss-repo/blob/main/repo/kiss-outdated-issue/files/kiss-outdated-issue
2021-02-16T09:32:35 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> current python script
2021-02-16T09:33:53 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> you can make a request to the api in the same for loop in shell, but then you won't be able to sort packages
2021-02-16T09:35:31 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> the script just asks the api to give the username for last commit on the outdated package and tags the maintainer
2021-02-16T09:36:28 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeah, that was the flow i was thinking off, im not good with shell either but id consider this at least a learning challange so i might see if i can implement in shell
2021-02-16T10:27:40 #kisslinux <necromansy> testuser_[m]: i've got a shell script version working if you wanna geeze?
2021-02-16T10:38:22 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> necromansy sure
2021-02-16T10:39:52 #kisslinux <necromansy> ix.io/2PBu
2021-02-16T10:46:26 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hmm, nice
2021-02-16T10:46:26 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i guess we can add `curl` and `jq` to the script for getting the gh usernames
2021-02-16T10:47:06 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeah im also realising rn that git log might not be pulling the commit for the specific sub-repo
2021-02-16T10:47:11 #kisslinux <necromansy> but rather the entire one?
2021-02-16T10:47:22 #kisslinux <necromansy> a problem, if it is
2021-02-16T10:48:11 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> git log repo/pkg/version should show the log for that package only
2021-02-16T10:49:37 #kisslinux <necromansy> ah yep yep so it do
2021-02-16T10:49:40 #kisslinux <necromansy> will fix
2021-02-16T10:50:13 #kisslinux <necromansy> i'll also look at using jq/curl to get the gh usernames now
2021-02-16T10:50:36 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> if we're gonna use the api we just need the last commit on that package
2021-02-16T10:50:49 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeah, the -1 gets that
2021-02-16T10:51:00 #kisslinux <necromansy> at least for git log
2021-02-16T10:55:08 #kisslinux <necromansy> deng it gonna have to use the api, git log only gives author name and email, not username
2021-02-16T10:56:10 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> yeah cuz it's github specific
2021-02-16T10:56:34 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeah, i keep forgetting there's a difference there
2021-02-16T11:44:37 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> has anyone compiled kernel 5.11? it fails for me with wrong printf usage
2021-02-16T11:45:03 #kisslinux <necromansy> nah i haven't yet
2021-02-16T12:04:11 #kisslinux <tink> How are characters handled in operating systems? Is there a package I can edit if I wanted all emoji to display as an invisible character so that I wouldn't see any emoji even on browsers? I feel like it's something I don't really have much control over like the scripts websites make my pc run.
2021-02-16T12:05:06 #kisslinux <travankor> edit the ttf/otf files
2021-02-16T12:05:23 #kisslinux <travankor> i have no idea how you would make it invisible tho
2021-02-16T12:05:36 #kisslinux <tink> For all fonts installed? That'd be quite difficult.
2021-02-16T12:05:52 #kisslinux <travankor> nope, just the fonts that provides emojis
2021-02-16T12:06:59 #kisslinux <travankor> and then run fc-cache -fv to reload
2021-02-16T12:07:04 #kisslinux <tink> I'd be happy with a single dot . if making them insivible is not possible
2021-02-16T12:07:59 #kisslinux <travankor> btw if you don't have any emoji fonts installed, emojis will render as an empty rectangle
2021-02-16T12:08:39 #kisslinux <tink> As far as I know websites use services like Google Fonts to import fonts, so I don't have control over them.
2021-02-16T12:09:13 #kisslinux <travankor> you can use something like ublock to block that
2021-02-16T12:10:40 #kisslinux <tink> I am already using uMatrix to block fonts.google.com but I guess I have emoji fonts installed, that's why I am seeing them. Thanks, I think that will work
2021-02-16T12:11:02 #kisslinux <tink> Now I need to figure out how to make every character small caps
2021-02-16T12:11:27 #kisslinux <tink> Would I need to edit every font installed on my system if I didn't want to see any capital letters?
2021-02-16T12:12:16 #kisslinux <travankor> yeah
2021-02-16T12:12:28 #kisslinux <travankor> or just roll your own font and use that :P
2021-02-16T12:13:13 #kisslinux <tink> For everything? That makes a lot of sense actually
2021-02-16T12:17:31 #kisslinux <travankor> well you can use just one bitmap font as your source of truth :P
2021-02-16T13:48:50 #kisslinux <necromansy> testuser_[m]: got it working, i'll shoot across the pastebin if you want!
2021-02-16T13:49:57 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> That would be great necromansy
2021-02-16T13:52:24 #kisslinux <necromansy> ix.io/2PCt
2021-02-16T13:53:23 #kisslinux <necromansy> there's a couple of things that will need to be changed - repo/outdated file location and uncommenting the kiss outdated command
2021-02-16T13:53:25 #kisslinux <necromansy> but that works
2021-02-16T13:53:56 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nice
2021-02-16T13:54:10 #kisslinux <necromansy> i burned out my api allowance testing it
2021-02-16T13:54:11 #kisslinux <necromansy> lmao
2021-02-16T13:56:18 #kisslinux <necromansy> usage rn is simple/hardcoded but you can fix it up to take args if that's easier
2021-02-16T14:24:49 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> what is parkingcrew?
2021-02-16T14:25:20 #kisslinux <acheam> huh?
2021-02-16T14:26:08 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> the website domain is expired i guess now
2021-02-16T14:26:11 #kisslinux <acheam> yep
2021-02-16T14:26:23 #kisslinux <acheam> it goes on auction in 3 weeks
2021-02-16T14:26:31 #kisslinux <acheam> until then, there is a mirror at kiss.armaanb.net and k1ss.net
2021-02-16T14:27:10 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> ah ok so it's namecheap's way of holding the domain in case the previous owner wants to keep it?
2021-02-16T14:27:23 #kisslinux <acheam> yep
2021-02-16T14:27:31 #kisslinux <acheam> although I thought it was registered at GoDaddy?
2021-02-16T14:27:45 #kisslinux <acheam> I think it takes you to a different page depending on your DNS server... for me it just times out
2021-02-16T14:27:53 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> oh hm
2021-02-16T14:28:04 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> says namecheap for me, i don't know how that all works though
2021-02-16T14:28:18 #kisslinux <acheam> domains and dns are weird
2021-02-16T14:28:35 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> it shows me the parkingcrew thing too
2021-02-16T14:29:10 #kisslinux <acheam> interesting. I'm using quad9 dns, so I wonder if they block those kind of pages
2021-02-16T14:29:15 #kisslinux <acheam> for phishing prevention
2021-02-16T14:29:16 #kisslinux <acheam> or something
2021-02-16T14:29:49 #kisslinux <acheam> or maybe its something in my hosts file
2021-02-16T14:30:28 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i am using nextdns
2021-02-16T14:48:44 #kisslinux <Rio6> might be https/http thing
2021-02-16T14:50:35 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> http://k1ss.org is where i see the parkingcrew and namecheap reference.  https://k1ss.org gives me a timeout.  That could be it
2021-02-16T14:58:25 #kisslinux <acheam> times out on both for me
2021-02-16T15:24:15 #kisslinux <konimex> acheam: do you force https? I can open the former but not the latter
2021-02-16T15:24:47 #kisslinux <acheam> I do in my browser, but even curl timed out
2021-02-16T15:25:28 #kisslinux <acheam> //i.imgur.com/KbbkGwW.png
2021-02-16T15:25:37 #kisslinux <acheam> https://i.imgur.com/KbbkGwW.png
2021-02-16T15:25:42 #kisslinux <acheam> Its not important though
2021-02-16T15:37:05 #kisslinux <aarng> necromansy: https://termbin.com/ro7xb
2021-02-16T15:37:26 #kisslinux <aarng> literally just left, damn
2021-02-16T15:38:24 #kisslinux <aarng> testuser_[m] ^
2021-02-16T15:38:49 #kisslinux <aarng> kiss-outdated gotta be the slowest shell script ever though
2021-02-16T15:38:58 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> yeah its pretty slow
2021-02-16T15:42:03 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> is it the shell script or the curls out to github that cause the slowness?
2021-02-16T15:42:45 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> the repology calls were slow now they'll be double slow cuz we're calling gh aswell
2021-02-16T15:43:59 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> The script will be run once in a few days manually anyways so doesn't really matter
2021-02-16T15:44:20 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> manually triggered through gh actions stuff*
2021-02-16T15:45:51 #kisslinux <aarng> it's 1 curl per package which is the issue, yeah
2021-02-16T15:46:35 #kisslinux <aarng> isn't there an overview page on repology we could scrape instead?
2021-02-16T15:48:24 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://repology.org/api
2021-02-16T15:48:31 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> maybe there's an endpoint for outdated packages
2021-02-16T15:48:51 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> oh there is
2021-02-16T15:48:55 #kisslinux <aarng> nice, will have a look
2021-02-16T15:55:01 #kisslinux <aarng> https://repology.org/api/v1/projects/?inrepo=kiss_community&outdated=1
2021-02-16T15:55:14 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://repology.org/api/v1/projects/?inrepo=kiss_community&outdated=1
2021-02-16T15:55:14 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> lol
2021-02-16T15:55:23 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i just found the same rn
2021-02-16T15:57:13 #kisslinux <aarng> only problem is that it only returns a maximum of 200
2021-02-16T15:57:56 #kisslinux <acheam> will that be an issue for us?
2021-02-16T15:58:00 #kisslinux <aarng> shouldn't be too hard detect if there are 200 packages and then do more requests after that
2021-02-16T15:58:18 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> there's like 20-30 outdated packages at max
2021-02-16T15:58:24 #kisslinux <aarng> no but still lame if the script would be inaccurate if there are more than 200
2021-02-16T15:58:50 #kisslinux <aarng> just a correctness thing
2021-02-16T15:59:13 #kisslinux <aarng> but anyway, I will definitelty improve kiss-outdated
2021-02-16T15:59:20 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> why is the json i receive 4 mb big
2021-02-16T15:59:28 #kisslinux <aarng> ya lol
2021-02-16T15:59:54 #kisslinux <aarng> every pkg object has all the repos it is a part of
2021-02-16T16:00:03 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> ohh
2021-02-16T16:00:21 #kisslinux <aarng> kinda dumb but I don't think it can be restricted to just a certain repo
2021-02-16T16:01:03 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> how will you tell repology to get the next 200 packages though ?
2021-02-16T16:01:22 #kisslinux <aarng> there is an endpoint which is basically pagination
2021-02-16T16:01:51 #kisslinux <aarng> actually
2021-02-16T16:01:54 #kisslinux <aarng> good question
2021-02-16T16:02:46 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> closed wontfix
2021-02-16T16:02:55 #kisslinux <aarng> ^
2021-02-16T16:09:14 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> btw, should `kiss-new` be changed so that you can optionally specify the build system and it'll write the basic configure/install steps to build file ?
2021-02-16T16:09:24 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> or is that gonna make it 🅱️loated
2021-02-16T16:12:17 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i say thats bloat, you'll almost certainly have to change it anyway, probably better to just copy one from a similar package
2021-02-16T16:21:22 #kisslinux <acheam> Does anybody know why the wiki and website were in seperate repos?
2021-02-16T16:24:52 #kisslinux <acheam> Also, I know that we originally said that we would move forward with kiss-community once we got the domain (which we thought would potentially be feb 14), but now that it is past that date, and we will get the domain probably during the upcoming auction, should we move forward with the poll, or still wait?
2021-02-16T16:26:09 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> the poll was regarding self hosting / github right ?
2021-02-16T16:26:22 #kisslinux <acheam> and BDFL/no BDFL
2021-02-16T16:26:43 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> do it
2021-02-16T16:27:27 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> it's almost 3 months now, i don't really see a point in waiting longer
2021-02-16T16:27:31 #kisslinux <acheam> I agree
2021-02-16T16:28:31 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> we can probably notify about the poll in the update file similar to sls and ssu
2021-02-16T16:28:38 #kisslinux <acheam> yep sounds good
2021-02-16T16:38:35 #kisslinux <konimex> <acheam "Does anybody know why the wiki a"> iirc it's in the separate repos because the wiki can be constantly updating and the site pretty much contains the wiki submodule
2021-02-16T16:39:13 #kisslinux <acheam> But for the wiki to be updated on the site, the submodule has to be updated and the make script needs to be run
2021-02-16T16:39:29 #kisslinux <acheam> so you need to update the site repo anyways
2021-02-16T16:40:32 #kisslinux <konimex> well, who knows, better ask dylan
2021-02-16T16:40:47 #kisslinux <acheam> if only
2021-02-16T17:03:45 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> acheam: fyi, i am still wasting my time on the conversation of the k1ss.org site content to markdown. may be useful to someone one day (at least we would then have the choice of ssgs). install page nearly done. https://mcpcpc.com/k1ss/install.html
2021-02-16T17:03:58 #kisslinux <acheam> nice!
2021-02-16T17:04:04 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm sure it will come in handy
2021-02-16T17:07:25 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> thnx. i hope so.  i may take a stab at the wiki too to make it a flat file format.
2021-02-16T17:07:25 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> what's ssgs
2021-02-16T17:07:37 #kisslinux <acheam> what is ssgs?
2021-02-16T17:07:37 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> static site generator(s)
2021-02-16T17:07:46 #kisslinux <acheam> oh lol
2021-02-16T17:09:22 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nice work mcpcpc
2021-02-16T17:12:18 #kisslinux <acheam> could 1-2 people please look through this draft, and give feedback?
2021-02-16T17:12:20 #kisslinux <acheam> https://poll.armaanb.net/form/602bf717abcc680022450598
2021-02-16T17:13:17 #kisslinux <acheam> please dont fill out any of the actual quesions yet
2021-02-16T17:14:43 #kisslinux <acheam> also, sorry dilyn, the form software i'm using is AGPL
2021-02-16T17:15:42 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i think he only hates GPL, not AGPL
2021-02-16T17:16:57 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hmm the bottom  button is cut off on phone
2021-02-16T17:17:22 #kisslinux <acheam> argh me too
2021-02-16T17:17:29 #kisslinux <acheam> but not much I can do about it....
2021-02-16T17:17:40 #kisslinux <acheam> its still clickable on mine
2021-02-16T17:17:54 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> yeah it's only half cut
2021-02-16T17:18:19 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> would this "A camel is a horse designed by a committee." be suitable for the bdfl thing
2021-02-16T17:19:10 #kisslinux <acheam> I'll just remind people to read the kiss website beforehand.
2021-02-16T17:19:15 #kisslinux <acheam> and i'll put a link to the mirror
2021-02-16T17:20:09 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> ah man the poll just gets stuck at the long self hosted question (phone)
2021-02-16T17:20:23 #kisslinux <acheam> bruh
2021-02-16T17:20:41 #kisslinux <acheam> do you have any reccomendations for an open source and not shit form software?
2021-02-16T17:21:07 #kisslinux <acheam> i don't want to spin up a mariadb instance just for limesurvey
2021-02-16T17:21:53 #kisslinux <acheam> alternatively, it could just be a shell script or something
2021-02-16T17:23:45 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nah no idea about poll software
2021-02-16T17:23:59 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> and the best thing is it doesn't even give you a next button if you toggle desktop site
2021-02-16T17:24:09 #kisslinux <acheam> argh
2021-02-16T17:24:18 #kisslinux <acheam> this thing was a pain to create the survey with too
2021-02-16T17:25:03 #kisslinux <acheam> I think i'm going to do a shell script method
2021-02-16T17:25:34 #kisslinux <acheam> and have people email it to me or something
2021-02-16T17:25:48 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> that would reduce the responses by a lot
2021-02-16T17:25:55 #kisslinux <acheam> you think?
2021-02-16T17:26:49 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> A lot of people wouldn't bother email-ing, due to it being less convenient than a js form + they might be worried about leaking their name etc from email address
2021-02-16T17:26:57 #kisslinux <acheam> hmmm
2021-02-16T17:27:12 #kisslinux <acheam> does anybody here have a nextcloud instance I could use the polls app on?
2021-02-16T17:27:40 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> I do have a vps but haven't setup nextcloud or stuff
2021-02-16T17:28:05 #kisslinux <acheam> so do I
2021-02-16T17:28:48 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> I can look into setting it up tomorrow if you are time constrained
2021-02-16T17:29:36 #kisslinux <acheam> Don't worry about it
2021-02-16T17:32:15 #kisslinux <acheam> okay i'm giving up on it being open source
2021-02-16T17:32:51 #kisslinux <acheam> if someone has a problem with it, i'll give them a plaintext version
2021-02-16T17:38:03 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://github.com/kellerben/dudle/
2021-02-16T17:39:08 #kisslinux <acheam> ooh thanks
2021-02-16T17:40:40 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> idk if its good or anything or even satisfies our purpose but i just found it in a reddit comment
2021-02-16T17:41:26 #kisslinux <acheam> hmmmm it doesn't seem to allow the many questions / question types I need
2021-02-16T17:41:58 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> what was the name of the current thing
2021-02-16T17:42:04 #kisslinux <acheam> ohmyform
2021-02-16T17:44:17 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm just going to install limesurvey
2021-02-16T17:45:58 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> oof
2021-02-16T17:46:06 #kisslinux <noocsharp> https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_forms.asp
2021-02-16T17:46:18 #kisslinux <noocsharp> no js needed
2021-02-16T17:46:33 #kisslinux <acheam> noocsharp:  right, but that data's got to be sent somewhere :)
2021-02-16T17:47:16 #kisslinux <noocsharp> write a little program that listens for POSTs
2021-02-16T17:47:55 #kisslinux <acheam> i've done that before and its not super fun to administer
2021-02-16T17:48:05 #kisslinux <acheam> I got lots of spam
2021-02-16T17:48:21 #kisslinux <noocsharp> ill trust your judgement on this, since i haven't done it either
2021-02-16T17:49:24 #kisslinux <noocsharp> s/ either//
2021-02-16T17:49:26 #kisslinux <kissbot> <noocsharp> ill trust your judgement on this, since i haven't done it
2021-02-16T17:56:55 #kisslinux <aarng> https://termbin.com/e9ew
2021-02-16T17:57:01 #kisslinux <aarng> testuser_[m]
2021-02-16T17:57:26 #kisslinux <aarng> only problem, it does not show the latest version, just the current one
2021-02-16T17:57:41 #kisslinux <aarng> but it's at least reasonable fast
2021-02-16T18:17:38 #kisslinux <konimex> for the poll thing shouldn't it be an "open" one (e.g. one can see the justification of why someone voted for this or that) instead of a "closed" poll?
2021-02-16T18:36:08 #kisslinux <acheam> all the questions have text fields allowing explanation
2021-02-16T18:37:45 #kisslinux <aarng> we could also have people fill out a form in a github issue or something
2021-02-16T18:51:38 #kisslinux <acheam> not anonymous
2021-02-16T18:51:47 #kisslinux <acheam> but a good idea
2021-02-16T19:39:54 #kisslinux <tink> I can't seem to remember the command you could use to clear the linux kernel building directory. It'd delete the old files from the previous build or something
2021-02-16T19:44:29 #kisslinux <aarng> `make help` ;)
2021-02-16T19:46:52 #kisslinux <tink> I tried make --help, should've gone with make help, right. Thanks.
2021-02-16T20:00:33 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> completed the install page markdown conversion and loaded the wiki articles (which are linked as the plain text files). will fix the broken install links later.  https://github.com/mcpcpc/k1ss.  i think the flatter wiki structure is pretty good. the index is just a dynamic list.  there were a few articles missing from the old wiki index… not sure if that was intentional or dylan forgot to add them.
2021-02-16T20:31:16 #kisslinux <sad_plan> im guessing a non-anonymous vote might not be what people want. people are usually relucant to share what they voted anyway, atleast as I see it in US elections anyway. dunno about elsewhere and other stuff :p would be nice to have comments though. there might be some good ideas that surface that way aswell.
2021-02-16T20:37:04 #kisslinux <merakor> -> rust Build failed in 00:57:07
2021-02-16T20:37:09 #kisslinux <merakor> God I hate rust
2021-02-16T20:38:02 #kisslinux <sad_plan> you guys also mentioned the stuff about what made kiss kiss, and altering the pm would make it *not kisslinux*. this can obviously be an issue. in any case, the question was; what made kisslinux, kisslinux. what defines kisslinux as a distro. if you ask the same questions about i.e. debian, the answer would possibly that its stable as a mountain. arch would be that its bleeding edge, huge repos, and the AUR. if you ask me, what mak
2021-02-16T20:39:00 #kisslinux <sad_plan> that doesnt tell us anything. send build log instead. did you add the kiss-community repo? I recall having issues with Dylans repo when building rust.
2021-02-16T20:39:17 #kisslinux <sad_plan> ^ merakor:
2021-02-16T20:40:43 #kisslinux <merakor> Ah no, I wasn't using the kiss repository. I just wanted to whine about rust :(
2021-02-16T20:43:20 #kisslinux <sad_plan> yeah, go add them to your kiss_path, and comment out dylans instead, or just remove them from kiss_path for now or something. and retry. yeah, everyone here seem to hate rust for some reason, yet elsewhere software keeps getting rewritten in rust instead. I dont get why everyone hates rust, except it takes ages to compile..
2021-02-16T20:43:22 #kisslinux <merakor> The issue was that compiling rust ate up all my ram and it failed due to the lack of memory
2021-02-16T20:44:42 #kisslinux <sad_plan> change your makeflags to a lower number. had the similar issue when I used kiss in a VM
2021-02-16T20:44:58 #kisslinux <sad_plan> ie. if you have -j4, try -j3 instead
2021-02-16T20:46:10 #kisslinux <sad_plan> or dont use pipes, as it also uses more ram
2021-02-16T20:47:52 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i had trouble with rust whenever i set my KISS VM's RAM under 4GB.  I still had some trouble 4-7GB, above 7 it seemed ok.
2021-02-16T20:48:47 #kisslinux <merakor> Well, I personally hate rust because it is hard to maintain, it compiles slower than llvm and webkit combined, and it depends on lots of other software. I'd personally take golang over rust anyday.
2021-02-16T20:49:53 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I had no issues before I upgraded from 8-16g (in reality gpu ate 2-3g, so had 5-6g instead.) adjusted makeflags to -j4 instead, and had no issues. now I can run -j8 instead
2021-02-16T20:50:39 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I get that. for me rust is only a make dep for firefox, so I dont really have to use it unless ff gets an update anyway
2021-02-16T20:50:49 #kisslinux <merakor> I have 16 gigs of ram and 12 cores, neither should have been a problem if I wasn't doing the compilation on /tmp (i.e on RAM)
2021-02-16T20:57:05 #kisslinux <sad_plan> hm. strange. I dont belive you should run out of ram, even if you run -j12..
2021-02-16T21:02:46 #kisslinux <merakor> Well, it sounds absurd, but when you are building on RAM, you are not only dealing with the memory for the compilation. Since the source directory is inside the ram, you have to also think about the increase of size
2021-02-16T21:03:03 #kisslinux <merakor> For most projects you don't have to think about this, but uhm
2021-02-16T21:03:07 #kisslinux <merakor> Uhm rust
2021-02-16T21:04:21 #kisslinux <merakor> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Portage_TMPDIR_on_tmpfs
2021-02-16T22:05:21 #kisslinux <sad_plan> Hm, according to the wiki there, you need 7gb on the tmpfs, did you allocate that? If  thats the case, id just allocate a bit more, like .5-1gb more, and rebuild. Could have some spikes that makes the build fail perhaps
2021-02-16T22:05:27 #kisslinux * sad_plan shrugs
2021-02-16T22:12:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> KISS' website in... markdown?! *shudder*
2021-02-16T22:12:59 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> the bloooatttt
2021-02-16T22:13:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> the unnecessity
2021-02-16T22:13:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> also AGPL is still GNU ain't it?
2021-02-16T22:13:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> burn it at the cross
2021-02-16T22:14:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> ;)
2021-02-16T22:14:33 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> <mcpcpc[m] "completed the install page markd"> actually i kinda like markdown. do you want some help?
2021-02-16T22:16:19 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> <dilyn "burn it at the cross"> i get the badness of restrictiveness, but i *want* software to be free. are y'all not liking gpl etc bcs dylan didn't like it, or just bcs freedom?
2021-02-16T22:16:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> I feel like dylan was fine with GPL
2021-02-16T22:16:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> I should write a blog post about this so I can just link to that every time someone asks why I dislike the license
2021-02-16T22:17:11 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> 😬
2021-02-16T22:22:01 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> phoebos: it’s pretty much done. i appreciate the offer tho!
2021-02-16T22:24:02 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> <dilyn "KISS' website in... markdown?! *"> yes. dylan would definitely burn me at the stake for this sacrilege
2021-02-16T22:25:15 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> more sacrilege
2021-02-16T22:25:16 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> why did dylan only want english?
2021-02-16T22:25:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> something something lingua franca
2021-02-16T22:26:12 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> ^ lol
2021-02-16T22:26:26 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that's the given reason
2021-02-16T22:26:27 #kisslinux * midfavila1 shrugs
2021-02-16T22:26:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i think his words more specifically were that english is the "world language"
2021-02-16T22:30:38 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> dilyn: any suggestions other than markdown? we could keep using his ssg… but it always felt cumbersome to me. idk.  i figured, at least the markdown effort is “done”, whether it’s adopted or not. i definitely think the wiki structure needs to change tho.
2021-02-16T22:31:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> I think the ssg is super straightforward and easy :v
2021-02-16T22:31:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> and the wiki is... pretty easy. What you do think is wrong with it?
2021-02-16T22:33:31 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> the landing page is missing articles.  and page links were broke frequently.  trying to write a new article was tedious to me, given my vim-foo at the start was poor.  i think it would be better as plain text files instead of rendered pages shrug
2021-02-16T22:34:40 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> at the end, it’s a community decision. and i have been really annoying everyone here about changing the website+wiki. lol.
2021-02-16T22:35:48 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> i could go on with the issues i had. in the end, it was MUCH better than what we had before
2021-02-16T22:36:32 #kisslinux <acheam> I'm with mcpcpc[m] on this one
2021-02-16T22:36:35 #kisslinux <acheam> for example: code blocks
2021-02-16T22:36:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> Oh I mean the wiki has definitely suffered from neglect and one of my biggest frustrations with dylan was his insistence on controlling it but not working super hard on it, but he acknowledged that and just had other priorities
2021-02-16T22:37:27 #kisslinux <acheam> But imagine a world where KISS has 20000 users, not 200.
2021-02-16T22:37:39 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it'll never happen
2021-02-16T22:37:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> kiss is far too niche and specific of a system to appeal to the average user
2021-02-16T22:38:07 #kisslinux <acheam> I'm not saying it will ever happen, but planning for it would lead to better systems
2021-02-16T22:38:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> I think I would hate KISS if it had 20000 users lmfao
2021-02-16T22:38:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> same tbh
2021-02-16T22:38:23 #kisslinux <acheam> so would I lol
2021-02-16T22:38:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> fuckn normie redditors stay away from my os. reee
2021-02-16T22:38:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> I'm imaging every single nonironic 'btw I use Arch'er picking it up and my head is exploding
2021-02-16T22:38:53 #kisslinux <acheam> I just meant: For the purpose of the wiki, as people write more and more articles, it will get impossible to keep up
2021-02-16T22:38:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> REEEEEEEEE
2021-02-16T22:39:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> afaik the only complicated articles in the wiki are... mine...
2021-02-16T22:39:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well, why not take a page out of taco bell's book and just like
2021-02-16T22:39:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> use markup for standard pages and maybe plaintext for wiki entries
2021-02-16T22:39:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> idk
2021-02-16T22:39:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> personally I'd prefer the KISS documentation be included in mandoc format
2021-02-16T22:39:45 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> <acheam "I just meant: For the purpose of"> agreed.  also, there were so many issues with people following the template formatting.
2021-02-16T22:39:48 #kisslinux <acheam> if anything,  I'd argue the other way around
2021-02-16T22:39:56 #kisslinux <acheam> no way in hell i'm writing wiki pages in troff lol
2021-02-16T22:40:04 #kisslinux * midfavila1 shrugs
2021-02-16T22:40:18 #kisslinux <acheam> but..... using pandoc or smthng to convert the wik into manpages would be awesome
2021-02-16T22:40:27 #kisslinux <acheam> s/wik/wiki
2021-02-16T22:40:28 #kisslinux <kissbot> <acheam> but..... using pandoc or smthng to convert the wiki into manpages would be awesome
2021-02-16T22:40:45 #kisslinux <acheam> :b 7
2021-02-16T22:40:47 #kisslinux <acheam> oop
2021-02-16T22:41:00 #kisslinux <acheam> s/:b 7//
2021-02-16T22:41:50 #kisslinux <midfavila1> totally unrelated but I need to get around to writing a battery monitor...
2021-02-16T22:42:02 #kisslinux <midfavila1> laptop always ends up getting low on juice at the worst possible time
2021-02-16T22:42:18 #kisslinux <acheam> I use batsignal
2021-02-16T22:42:42 #kisslinux <acheam> works fine
2021-02-16T22:42:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> recently I've just been using a shell script that checks the battery capacity every fifteen minutes, then alerts the user with xmessage if it's lower than 25%
2021-02-16T22:42:56 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it... *works*.
2021-02-16T22:43:00 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but it's not ideal
2021-02-16T22:43:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> If I had to generate mandoc style pages to contribute to the wiki I would never do it again
2021-02-16T22:43:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> on god
2021-02-16T22:43:57 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> ^^
2021-02-16T22:44:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's not that bad lmao
2021-02-16T22:44:09 #kisslinux <acheam> But what about markdown, which is converted into troff, plaintext, and html
2021-02-16T22:44:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> better than writing html by hand
2021-02-16T22:44:13 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> It's not too hard to have a decent script to generate man pages
2021-02-16T22:44:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but markdown could be... alright, I guess.
2021-02-16T22:44:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> markdown is better
2021-02-16T22:44:45 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> And not the whole wiki is gonna need to come up in a man page
2021-02-16T22:44:48 #kisslinux <acheam> the good thing about markdown is that it is readable in plain text
2021-02-16T22:44:54 #kisslinux <acheam> phoebos[m]1:  good point
2021-02-16T22:44:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> but I much prefer just *taka taka taka :wq* *submit PR*
2021-02-16T22:45:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's not standard in the same way plaintext or mandoc is, but it has the advantage of multiple formats that it can be converted to easily, I guess
2021-02-16T22:45:11 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> markdown is more readable than plain text
2021-02-16T22:45:19 #kisslinux <acheam> ^
2021-02-16T22:45:45 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> <dilyn "but I much prefer just *taka tak"> true
2021-02-16T22:45:59 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> and the lack of a standard is bad
2021-02-16T22:46:23 #kisslinux <aarng> I like markdown in plaintext, that's what the wiki/website should be
2021-02-16T22:46:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> I think technically every wiki article follows the page formatting standards
2021-02-16T22:46:38 #kisslinux <aarng> nice thing, people can view markdown as they like
2021-02-16T22:46:43 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> also what's up with only ascii in the wiki, utf8 is good
2021-02-16T22:46:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> markdown isn't even standardized though
2021-02-16T22:47:05 #kisslinux <acheam> if the conversion is done by a CI system, it would still be that "taka take taka :wq*". The level of markdown which we would use is fairly standard, and we would choose a markdown flavor like pandoc markdown or GH markdown
2021-02-16T22:47:06 #kisslinux <aarng> it's not, but all the shitty extension are whack anyway
2021-02-16T22:47:13 #kisslinux <aarng> extensions*
2021-02-16T22:47:24 #kisslinux <aarng> like tripple backtick code-blocks
2021-02-16T22:47:36 #kisslinux * aarng pukes
2021-02-16T22:47:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> at least it's not m4
2021-02-16T22:48:14 #kisslinux <acheam> We need a BDFL to make these kinds of decisions... or at least a BDFL for each aspect of the project
2021-02-16T22:48:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Mmh.
2021-02-16T22:48:33 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> if the wiki moves to markdown, it would be easiest to use the github dialect probably
2021-02-16T22:48:35 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> ^
2021-02-16T22:48:45 #kisslinux <acheam> pandoc markdown is also very popular
2021-02-16T22:49:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i think in the case of markdown I'd be in favor of pandoc
2021-02-16T22:49:47 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> yes but it lacks a few formatting bits and since kiss is (currently) hosted of github it plays nice with previewing in the repo
2021-02-16T22:49:58 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> s/of/on
2021-02-16T22:49:59 #kisslinux <kissbot> <phoebos[m]1> yes but it lacks a few formatting bits and since kiss is (currently) hosted on github it plays nice with previewing in the repo
2021-02-16T22:50:17 #kisslinux <aarng> what more do you need than links, lists, headers, bold and italic
2021-02-16T22:50:25 #kisslinux <acheam> ^
2021-02-16T22:50:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> in the long run wouldn't it be advantageous to move away from github, though? although I suppose that that would be a different conversation
2021-02-16T22:50:28 #kisslinux <acheam> and code blocks
2021-02-16T22:50:34 #kisslinux <aarng> oops, yep
2021-02-16T22:50:41 #kisslinux <aarng> space indented code block ofc
2021-02-16T22:50:41 #kisslinux <acheam> yes, midfavila1, and all these conversations overlap heavily
2021-02-16T22:50:54 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> <midfavila1 "in the long run wouldn't it be a"> yes
2021-02-16T22:51:38 #kisslinux <merakor> There is also discount, a markdown parser/converter in C99
2021-02-16T22:51:57 #kisslinux <merakor> It supports Github Markdown iirc
2021-02-16T22:52:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i dunno, I'm admittedly less experienced than a lot of you guys. KISS is in large part a learning exercise for me, but I do think we should keep KISS as self-hosted as possible.
2021-02-16T22:52:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'll defer to the community's judgement in the absence of BDFL
2021-02-16T22:53:18 #kisslinux <acheam> I see it as this: GH is centralized, and forces reliance on an all-powerful third party; KISS strives for decentralization and self-reliance
2021-02-16T22:53:28 #kisslinux * midfavila1 nods
2021-02-16T22:54:48 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> <acheam "I see it as this: GH is centrali"> i agree, but isn't bdfl vaguely in conflict with decentralisation
2021-02-16T22:55:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> KISS facilitates decentralization and self-reliance, it does not itself pursue that
2021-02-16T22:55:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> pretty sure that was addressed on the site
2021-02-16T22:55:52 #kisslinux <acheam> phoebos[m]1:  no more central than a commitee/kiss-community
2021-02-16T22:55:54 #kisslinux <acheam> IMO
2021-02-16T22:56:07 #kisslinux <midfavila1> as in "this is my project, but I give you all the tools to take it in your own direction"
2021-02-16T22:56:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> see: bdfl, repos in one location, strict compliance to certain rules
2021-02-16T22:56:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> ^^
2021-02-16T22:56:30 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so sure, the BDFL position is a source of centralized authority, but ultimately there's nothing stopping you from going "fuck you BDFL" and doing your own thing anyway
2021-02-16T22:56:33 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you can't do that on github
2021-02-16T22:56:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> I mean, I'm doing it rn
2021-02-16T22:56:44 #kisslinux <merakor> Git itself is decentralized, does it really matter that much where the repositories are?
2021-02-16T22:57:03 #kisslinux <acheam> Git is decentralized, GH is not. Issues, PRs, communications, GH pages, wikis, etc
2021-02-16T22:57:29 #kisslinux <merakor> I publish carbs' repository to my own git server which mirrors it to GH
2021-02-16T22:57:53 #kisslinux <acheam> how do you take contributions?
2021-02-16T22:58:20 #kisslinux <merakor> Nobody contributes :(
2021-02-16T22:58:26 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> <dilyn "KISS facilitates decentralizatio"> ah ok. any reason not to pursue it?
2021-02-16T22:58:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> F in chat
2021-02-16T22:58:32 #kisslinux <merakor> I mean sometimes through mail and issues
2021-02-16T22:58:45 #kisslinux <acheam> lol
2021-02-16T22:59:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> self-own of 2021 rip merakor
2021-02-16T22:59:19 #kisslinux <merakor> :D
2021-02-16T22:59:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> any reason not to pursue decentralization? decentralization inherently leads to a loss of identity
2021-02-16T22:59:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> if the primary feature of something is that 'it is what you want it to be', then it isn't something
2021-02-16T23:00:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> some people might not know who you are cem!
2021-02-16T23:00:02 #kisslinux <acheam> does it though? How is identity lost moving the development from github.com/kiss-community to git.k1ss.org
2021-02-16T23:00:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> and if what you say is true, nobody does!
2021-02-16T23:00:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> how is moving from github to a self-hosted mirror decentralizing tho
2021-02-16T23:00:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the fact is that it reduces reliance on external entities
2021-02-16T23:00:45 #kisslinux <acheam> reducing the power that Microsoft has
2021-02-16T23:00:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> this is a good thing
2021-02-16T23:00:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean what power does microsoft technically have?
2021-02-16T23:01:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> :thinking:
2021-02-16T23:01:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> you will always rely on an external entity as the user when you are not the BDFL
2021-02-16T23:01:16 #kisslinux <merakor> dilyn: yeah I have been away for a really long time now
2021-02-16T23:01:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> I have missed you <3
2021-02-16T23:01:31 #kisslinux <merakor> Aww I have missed you too
2021-02-16T23:01:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> has school calmed down?
2021-02-16T23:01:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> (I assume that is why you were away)
2021-02-16T23:02:10 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah it has a bit, that's why I was away
2021-02-16T23:02:32 #kisslinux <merakor> I rarely checked IRC since November
2021-02-16T23:03:54 #kisslinux <merakor> Well for the reason I have never moved away from GH is because of the exposure
2021-02-16T23:04:56 #kisslinux <merakor> According to my server logs nobody clones from my git server, although Github's logs say that some people do
2021-02-16T23:04:58 #kisslinux <aarng> I don't see any advantages of moving away from gh
2021-02-16T23:05:06 #kisslinux <aarng> except "fuck microsoft"
2021-02-16T23:05:45 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> <dilyn "you will always rely on an exter"> but if the external entity is a group of people, the reliance is more community-like and better
2021-02-16T23:05:55 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> there are obvious disadvantages to a bdfl
2021-02-16T23:06:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> Sure, there absolutely are!
2021-02-16T23:06:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> But not having one means you aren't using KISS (:
2021-02-16T23:07:08 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> are you the next bdfl?
2021-02-16T23:07:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> That is NOT up to me!
2021-02-16T23:07:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> I don't think we even know if we're going to instate a new BDFL.
2021-02-16T23:07:36 #kisslinux <merakor> I personally think that there should be a bdfl, but also maintainers with access following that bdfl
2021-02-16T23:07:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> ^
2021-02-16T23:07:38 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Unless I missed stuff
2021-02-16T23:07:58 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> <merakor "I personally think that there sh"> that is a step away
2021-02-16T23:08:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> I still advocate for the Sawfish style of hierarchy, personally-
2021-02-16T23:08:22 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> <midfavila1 "I don't think we even know if we"> so the project won't be KISS anymore?
2021-02-16T23:08:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> My ideal system which I think I have already laid out is somebody controlling the main repo, community, the site and the wiki, with at least one other person with write access to community, and a (possibly different one) to the wiki
2021-02-16T23:08:42 #kisslinux <midfavila1> at the end of the day KISS isn't even really a distro
2021-02-16T23:08:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's a package manager
2021-02-16T23:09:02 #kisslinux <midfavila1> we have no real defaults. we have no real hard and fast guidelines. we have no centralized system
2021-02-16T23:09:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> Without Dylan KISS has certainly lost a lot of what made KISS, KISS to be sure
2021-02-16T23:09:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> these are all things that define a distro
2021-02-16T23:09:31 #kisslinux <merakor> phoebos[m]1: I mean, I am not instating how KISS should be moving forward. I am not even a user of it. I was just stating my opinion.
2021-02-16T23:09:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if we approach this thinking about how to best handle a distro, we'll all fall flat on our faces
2021-02-16T23:09:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-02-16T23:10:24 #kisslinux * midfavila1 shrugs again
2021-02-16T23:15:27 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> i vote to get rid of the website.  no website. no ssg. no debate on formats. done. :)
2021-02-16T23:16:55 #kisslinux <merakor> mcpcpc[m]: well, that's at least somewhat zero bus-factor :D
2021-02-16T23:18:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmfaoooooo
2021-02-16T23:18:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> linux accelerationism. that's a new one
2021-02-16T23:41:13 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]1> with a central git repo under write control of a bdfl, would there be a way of letting write access pass to someone else after a set period of inactivity?
2021-02-16T23:43:43 #kisslinux <merakor> I don't really think so.
2021-02-16T23:44:11 #kisslinux <merakor> I mean if you have a server you can have a cronjob for that
2021-02-16T23:44:59 #kisslinux <merakor> Basically checks the latest commit date and sends the keys to the new maintainer?
2021-02-16T23:45:23 #kisslinux <merakor> How can you trust your bdfl's server if the bdfl is gone though?
2021-02-16T23:53:00 #kisslinux <acheam> whatever we set up would be over multiple community members
2021-02-16T23:53:32 #kisslinux <acheam> if it were to be on my hardware (which it more than likely will be at least in part), I would give dilyn and testuser_[m] ssh access
2021-02-16T23:55:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> I'm fine with fallback mirrors
2021-02-16T23:56:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> for git repos you can setup people to take over in the case of DEATH, but I don't know about inactivity
2021-02-16T23:56:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> deth
2021-02-16T23:56:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> The best solution is to simply have secondary people with write access to the repo who just defer to the BDFL in all cases imo
2021-02-16T23:57:09 #kisslinux <merakor> dilyn: Exactly, I think that's the best possible solution
2021-02-16T23:59:05 #kisslinux <acheam> this is why fossil is nice- when you sync, you get a copy of *everything*, forum, wiki, issue tracking, etc
2021-02-16T23:59:20 #kisslinux <acheam> central server not required
2021-02-16T23:59:44 #kisslinux <merakor> Was that the p2p git forge?