2021-02-27T00:16:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> docks are neat
2021-02-27T00:16:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'll probably rip the optical drive out of mine and replace it with a disk
2021-02-27T00:16:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> side note
2021-02-27T00:16:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> the fuckers sent me a broken dock
2021-02-27T00:16:31 #kisslinux <necromansy> what the3 fuck
2021-02-27T00:16:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> i just spent the past three hours disassembling the thing
2021-02-27T00:16:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> no manuals for it online either xwx
2021-02-27T00:17:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> one of the screws was stripped too so someone had clearly gotten into it
2021-02-27T00:17:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> not sure if it was refurb or what
2021-02-27T00:17:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> a little percussive maintenance and super glue later and it's almost good as new, but still annoying
2021-02-27T00:17:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> (one of the latches had shifted ever so slightly, preventing it from hooking into the laptop chassis)
2021-02-27T00:19:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> now that that's done, time to pull another all-nighter working on my ports
2021-02-27T00:29:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> so much crap depends on intltool... ugh
2021-02-27T00:34:54 #kisslinux <rabbadabba> how are you guys doing with the intermideary? I know that the proect is built to be able to survive unmaintained, but how's it going?
2021-02-27T00:35:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> pretty good so far
2021-02-27T00:35:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> dilyn is the BDFL for the forseeable future by election
2021-02-27T00:35:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> new site is up
2021-02-27T00:35:35 #kisslinux <rabbadabba> good to know, what happened to dylan, by the way?
2021-02-27T00:35:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> nobody knows
2021-02-27T00:36:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> he might have been assasinated by poettering goons, he might have been run over by glow in the dark CIA operatives, or he might have just yeeted all technology
2021-02-27T00:36:30 #kisslinux <rabbadabba> danm. Well its good to know you guys have a BDFL.
2021-02-27T00:36:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> indeedly so
2021-02-27T00:40:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> Wonder if the sysops have quashed that wave of spam yet
2021-02-27T00:53:09 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I believe they have
2021-02-27T00:53:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila
2021-02-27T00:53:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> Cool. I'll have to bug them about a new cloak then.
2021-02-27T00:53:40 #kisslinux <necromansy> what was going on?
2021-02-27T00:53:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> spambots
2021-02-27T00:53:54 #kisslinux <necromansy> gross
2021-02-27T00:53:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> very
2021-02-27T00:55:02 #kisslinux <acheam> i'll join you re: a cloak
2021-02-27T00:55:07 #kisslinux <acheam> :join #freenode
2021-02-27T00:55:09 #kisslinux <acheam> oop
2021-02-27T00:55:18 #kisslinux <necromansy> gg
2021-02-27T00:57:22 #kisslinux * kiedtl pokes midfavila and acheam
2021-02-27T00:57:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> Wha
2021-02-27T00:57:29 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Come on. Don't be shy
2021-02-27T00:57:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay fine g e e z
2021-02-27T00:57:43 #kisslinux <kiedtl> The ops won't bite, I swear
2021-02-27T00:57:52 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I mean
2021-02-27T00:57:53 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> midfavila, https://github.com/sabotage-linux/sabotage/commit/2d41d01ea9304d7a5c41f688bf74de4dcffb024b
2021-02-27T00:57:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> they didn't bite me
2021-02-27T00:58:31 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> getting rid of intltool involves a 20 line shell script
2021-02-27T00:58:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> something something need a GC to ask for a project cloak
2021-02-27T00:58:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> also will definitely look at that sh4rm4^bnc
2021-02-27T00:58:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> thanks
2021-02-27T00:59:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> speaking of things that probably only need a small patch
2021-02-27T00:59:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> for whatever reason xclock doesn't build against xaw3d
2021-02-27T00:59:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> :thinking:
2021-02-27T00:59:59 #kisslinux <acheam> sorry, was afk for a sec, thanks kiedtl
2021-02-27T01:00:35 #kisslinux <acheam> what would the second field of the cloak be?
2021-02-27T01:00:57 #kisslinux <kiedtl> acheam: kisslinux/acheam should be good?
2021-02-27T01:01:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila: kisslinux/midfavila?
2021-02-27T01:01:06 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> actually 2 scripts: https://github.com/sabotage-linux/sabotage/blob/c450adcd/KEEP/intltool-fix and https://github.com/sabotage-linux/sabotage/blob/c450adcd/KEEP/intltool
2021-02-27T01:01:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> works for me.
2021-02-27T01:01:47 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> removes dependency on perl, perl-xml-parser and intltool
2021-02-27T01:02:35 #kisslinux <kiedtl> acheam: see my earlier message
2021-02-27T01:02:56 #kisslinux <acheam> thats good, thanks!
2021-02-27T01:03:17 #kisslinux <acheam> sorry, doing some multitasking
2021-02-27T01:05:09 #kisslinux <acheam> oh, I got one, cool
2021-02-27T01:06:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> wow now we're officially part of the cool kids club
2021-02-27T01:06:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> next step in my plan to control #kisslinux from the shadows: op status
2021-02-27T01:09:07 #kisslinux <acheam> did I lose my op status? "You are not authorized to (de)op acheam on #kisslinux"
2021-02-27T01:09:12 #kisslinux <acheam> kiedtl
2021-02-27T01:10:47 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you need to get chanserv to op you
2021-02-27T01:11:57 #kisslinux <acheam> I'm doing :msg ChanServ op #kisslinux
2021-02-27T01:12:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> wait that's a thing
2021-02-27T01:12:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> so it is
2021-02-27T01:12:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> nifty
2021-02-27T01:15:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh hey they're remaking the 4th gen pokemon games
2021-02-27T01:15:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> what could possibly go wrong
2021-02-27T02:12:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> great, and the launchpad server for intltool is down
2021-02-27T02:12:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> great job freedesktop
2021-02-27T03:01:01 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> hi
2021-02-27T03:04:46 #kisslinux <acheam> mornin, testuser[m]_
2021-02-27T03:27:51 #kisslinux <kiedtl> acheam: fixed, you were missing the +O flag in the channel's access list
2021-02-27T03:29:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> Hello again, testuser[m]_
2021-02-27T03:29:12 #kisslinux <kiedtl> hi testuser[m]_
2021-02-27T03:29:17 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I see you grew a tail
2021-02-27T03:29:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> tails are great
2021-02-27T03:34:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> you know what else is great? bacon cheeseburgers.
2021-02-27T03:34:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> but only when they're homemade. otherwise they're gross
2021-02-27T03:45:18 #kisslinux <acheam> ah, thanks kiedtl
2021-02-27T03:49:18 #kisslinux <necromansy> ive gotta try making a vegan bacon cheeseburger
2021-02-27T03:50:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay there's some jank going on on my home net
2021-02-27T03:50:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> for whatever reason my router's DNS filter is catching the launchpad repos
2021-02-27T03:50:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> why are computers like this sometimes
2021-02-27T03:52:54 #kisslinux <acheam> why do people still use launchpad?
2021-02-27T03:53:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> because intltool
2021-02-27T03:54:21 #kisslinux <acheam> they should switch to the freedesktop gitlab
2021-02-27T03:54:37 #kisslinux <acheam> but tbf I don't know much about the project
2021-02-27T04:01:01 #kisslinux <TEST> hello
2021-02-27T04:01:01 #kisslinux <TEST> what's good
2021-02-27T04:01:01 #kisslinux <TEST> sjgfldgjsldkgjsldkjgggggggggggggggggggggggg;
2021-02-27T04:01:01 #kisslinux <TEST> lflflf
2021-02-27T04:01:01 #kisslinux <TEST> no
2021-02-27T04:01:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> shit. is there a way to get libintl.h on musl systems?
2021-02-27T04:03:54 #kisslinux <acheam> why do you need this thing?
2021-02-27T04:04:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, deadbeef requires it.
2021-02-27T04:04:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd like to not have to split my ports collection into musl-only and glibc-only
2021-02-27T04:05:01 #kisslinux <acheam> oh okay
2021-02-27T04:12:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> seems like a lot of GTK+2 programs require libintl
2021-02-27T04:12:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh well, I only use GTK+2 on my desktop anyway
2021-02-27T04:15:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> wait no wtf
2021-02-27T04:15:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> builds fine on my musl laptop
2021-02-27T04:15:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> what is this black magic
2021-02-27T04:16:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...it's provided by musl, but not in the default tarball. that's why
2021-02-27T04:16:30 #kisslinux * midfavila facedesks
2021-02-27T06:10:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so I learned something today
2021-02-27T06:10:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> UUIDs are trash
2021-02-27T06:11:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> I've *literally* never been able to get anything related to UUIDs to work properly, but when I use /dev/hd* or /dev/sd* it works just fine. Case in point, suspend to disk and resume
2021-02-27T06:54:40 #kisslinux <necromansy> ive never tried to work anything referring to UUID's short of /etc/fstab
2021-02-27T06:54:52 #kisslinux <necromansy> i always ref dev path
2021-02-27T06:55:05 #kisslinux * midfavila2 nods
2021-02-27T07:28:08 #kisslinux <travankor> is tinyramfs deprecated?
2021-02-27T08:03:20 #kisslinux <illiliti> no
2021-02-27T08:03:26 #kisslinux <illiliti> of course not
2021-02-27T08:17:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> ugh, server boards can be such a pain to manage
2021-02-27T08:17:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> so goddamn finnicky
2021-02-27T08:31:22 #kisslinux <travankor> oh ok, thanks
2021-02-27T10:13:04 #kisslinux <B4rc1> I am currently compiling my first kernel on kiss linux, and i have done that on gentoo before, but now i get a compile timer error: "kernel/bpf/preload/iterators/iterators.c:3:10: fatal error: argp.h: No such file or directory", so I did some research and apparently this is some glibc thing, they include for compatibility. The default config does not produce this error, is there any chance I can find the
2021-02-27T10:13:10 #kisslinux <B4rc1> option that requires this header?
2021-02-27T12:00:20 #kisslinux <necromansy> B4rc1: not sure about a good and easy way short of just adding in a kernel option and compiling until you find which one throws the error!
2021-02-27T12:02:53 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> well, it seems related to bpf
2021-02-27T12:06:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and its use is most likely a bug, including user-space headers and libs will break the kernel
2021-02-27T12:09:14 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> <midfavila> [04:59:03] shit. is there a way to get libintl.h on musl systems?
2021-02-27T12:09:19 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> see gettext-tiny
2021-02-27T12:27:28 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/619775c3cfd2bc8559abc4395bf7d85b72bd723f
2021-02-27T12:27:41 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> for some reason argp is included even in the latest tarball
2021-02-27T12:40:55 #kisslinux <necromansy> argp is a menace
2021-02-27T13:21:39 #kisslinux <periish[m]> hello!
2021-02-27T13:21:47 #kisslinux <periish[m]> congratulations dilyn!
2021-02-27T13:24:15 #kisslinux <periish[m]> id be interested to see the poll results
2021-02-27T13:28:14 #kisslinux <necromansy> hey!
2021-02-27T13:28:24 #kisslinux <periish[m]> hello!
2021-02-27T13:28:29 #kisslinux <necromansy> https://i.imgur.com/7fudIqe.png
2021-02-27T13:28:35 #kisslinux <necromansy> those are the top results of the poll
2021-02-27T13:29:06 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> https://github.com/kiss-community/repo-community/blob/main/update
2021-02-27T13:29:23 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> hi periish
2021-02-27T13:35:08 #kisslinux <periish[m]> nice!
2021-02-27T13:35:17 #kisslinux <periish[m]> i do wonder who technitium is on lobsters
2021-02-27T13:36:20 #kisslinux <periish[m]> i browse but have no account
2021-02-27T14:06:09 #kisslinux <soliwilos> I know about Dylan's foot-pgo package, but has anyone else experimented with pgo builds?
2021-02-27T14:12:47 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i've experimented with lto and it wasnt really satisfying, besides, there's only so much optimization can do
2021-02-27T14:14:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i've found this article quite enlightening https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2020/01/20/mir-a-lightweight-jit-compiler-project/
2021-02-27T14:14:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc>  	GCC 3.1 (-O3) 	GCC 8 (-Ofast -flto -march=native)
2021-02-27T14:14:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> SPECInt2000 w/o eon 	4498 	5212 (+16%)
2021-02-27T14:14:31 #kisslinux <soliwilos> I think lto by itself isn't much different either, I think mostly it should help make binaries a little smaller?
2021-02-27T14:14:57 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> 10+ years of gcc releases made gcc only 16% faster
2021-02-27T14:16:40 #kisslinux <soliwilos> Probably a bit connected to increased complexity during those years.
2021-02-27T14:19:51 #kisslinux <soliwilos> Clang used to be hailed as "ooh faster than gcc", until it too gained a beer-belly with age? :p I'm not deeply knowledgable about these things, but that's my impression.
2021-02-27T14:20:36 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> clang has faster compilation speed (when statically linked) than gcc, but the code it produces is performing worse on average
2021-02-27T14:25:06 #kisslinux <soliwilos> I'd prefer somewhat slower compile times and with it slightly better performing binaries, than the other way around.
2021-02-27T14:29:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> so GCC it is, then
2021-02-27T14:29:46 #kisslinux <soliwilos> Pgo though is tricky/complex and as such I haven't really tinkered with it much. Isn't that at least part of clearlinux's performance? It seems to be doing well, but they do a lot of patching/optimizing.
2021-02-27T14:39:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i've yet to see a linux that's faster than sabotage, and everything is compiled with -Os (and other size optimizations)
2021-02-27T14:39:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> 12 MB ram usage from kernel to lxde desktop
2021-02-27T14:42:07 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> isn't clearlinux the intel linux project? if so they use the intel compiler probably
2021-02-27T14:42:57 #kisslinux <soliwilos> It is the Intel distro, but they use gcc as far as I know.
2021-02-27T14:43:42 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> the intel compiler has dynamic function dispatch, i.e. every function is compiled X times to produce best performance for a specific intel cpu
2021-02-27T14:44:41 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> which is then automatically selected at runtime for the cpu it runs on
2021-02-27T14:54:21 #kisslinux <kiedtl> periish[m]: hey, welcome back!
2021-02-27T14:55:13 #kisslinux <kiedtl> re technetium, I am that user. (if you're looking for a lobste.rs invite, well, you could ask in #lobsters)
2021-02-27T16:47:41 #kisslinux <periish[m]> ah!
2021-02-27T16:47:46 #kisslinux <periish[m]> yea, i dont want a lobsters invite
2021-02-27T16:48:01 #kisslinux <periish[m]> i have a few folks i can ask but nothing really to post about
2021-02-27T16:48:23 #kisslinux <periish[m]> theyre not really receptive of forth style posting ;)
2021-02-27T16:48:31 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> can someone from irc send a message
2021-02-27T16:49:31 #kisslinux <periish[m]> nice samoyed, testuser
2021-02-27T16:49:58 #kisslinux <acheam> sending a message, testuser_[m]
2021-02-27T16:50:25 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nice finally it started working
2021-02-27T16:50:27 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> lol thanks periish
2021-02-27T16:50:31 #kisslinux <periish[m]> kiedtal: mention for the above; forget how irc works
2021-02-27T16:50:55 #kisslinux <acheam> kiedtl: ^
2021-02-27T16:51:28 #kisslinux <periish[m]> would my matrix mention not transfer over?
2021-02-27T16:51:35 #kisslinux <periish[m]> i did it in the irc stylw
2021-02-27T16:51:37 #kisslinux <acheam> it's mispelled
2021-02-27T16:51:56 #kisslinux <acheam> and most clients will highlight messages as long as the nick is anywhere in the message
2021-02-27T17:40:17 #kisslinux <periish[m]> oh oops
2021-02-27T17:55:57 #kisslinux <jedavies> Regarding lto / binary sizes earlier, was recently surprised to find on my machine that llvm built using lto is twice the size of the non-lto build! ~150MB for non-lto, and ~300MB for lto.
2021-02-27T17:56:07 #kisslinux <jedavies> Most other packages are around the same size
2021-02-27T17:58:06 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> LTO makes almost all stuff pretty fat for me
2021-02-27T17:58:21 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> i wonder how big a full lto chromium binary would be
2021-02-27T18:06:33 #kisslinux <jedavies> Don't know, but it would probably take 12 hours to link
2021-02-27T18:43:45 #kisslinux <kiedtl> periish[m]: Ah, ok :)
2021-02-27T18:43:57 #kisslinux <kiedtl> > theyre not really receptive of forth style posting
2021-02-27T18:44:33 #kisslinux <kiedtl> forth as in the language FORTH? There were at least 4 FORTH-related posts in the last months that made it to the top of lobste.rs
2021-02-27T18:46:30 #kisslinux <acheam> we should make a kiss fortune file
2021-02-27T19:00:55 #kisslinux <periish[m]> forth the language yea
2021-02-27T19:01:01 #kisslinux <periish[m]> which ones
2021-02-27T19:01:29 #kisslinux <periish[m]> i dont count stuff like play and factor as forth ^^
2021-02-27T19:01:58 #kisslinux <periish[m]> the forth->c compiler wasnt really about forth either
2021-02-27T19:03:21 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
2021-02-27T19:03:45 #kisslinux <kiedtl> acheam: "You will see Dylan's ghost by candlelight tonight."
2021-02-27T19:03:53 #kisslinux <periish[m]> kiedtal: im curious about which you refer to, the articles id share are quite alienating to most unixians :p
2021-02-27T19:04:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> may I have a sample?
2021-02-27T19:04:10 #kisslinux <periish[m]> stuff about aha and colorforth especially!
2021-02-27T19:04:16 #kisslinux <kiedtl> One forth I can think off the top of my head was Collapse OS
2021-02-27T19:04:22 #kisslinux <periish[m]> the horror, non plain text
2021-02-27T19:04:23 #kisslinux <kiedtl> eww colorfoth
2021-02-27T19:04:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> stay away
2021-02-27T19:04:49 #kisslinux <periish[m]> i like it!
2021-02-27T19:05:05 #kisslinux <kiedtl> color me pink if I ever get caught using it ;|
2021-02-27T19:05:05 #kisslinux <periish[m]> i also like aha a lot but sadly aha was never public
2021-02-27T19:05:13 #kisslinux <periish[m]> colorforth is lovely
2021-02-27T19:05:28 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I was joking though, I know next to nothing about colorforth
2021-02-27T19:05:42 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I've been interested in forths lately, I might look into it at some point
2021-02-27T19:05:47 #kisslinux <periish[m]> https://colorforth.github.io/binding.html heres an example of something quite alienating and contrasting to the typical haskell, unix, js, etc
2021-02-27T19:06:10 #kisslinux <periish[m]> > Don't try for platform portability.
2021-02-27T19:07:14 #kisslinux <periish[m]> colorforth is really interesting especially as a forth programmer
2021-02-27T19:07:32 #kisslinux <periish[m]> i think most of aha and cf stuff would start a flame war
2021-02-27T19:08:27 #kisslinux <kiedtl> >quite alienating to most unixians :p
2021-02-27T19:08:54 #kisslinux <kiedtl> You'd be surprised to hear that a significant portion of lobste.rs's active users hate unix with a passion
2021-02-27T19:09:24 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Hmm, I can't seem to find "aha forth" by googling, mind dropping a link?
2021-02-27T19:09:54 #kisslinux <periish[m]> i see so much linux and unix and c and js stuff
2021-02-27T19:10:03 #kisslinux <periish[m]> gimme a sec, this is a fun one http://www.ultratechnology.com/lowfat.htm
2021-02-27T19:10:53 #kisslinux <periish[m]> http://www.ultratechnology.com/aha.htm heres aha
2021-02-27T19:11:03 #kisslinux <periish[m]> it can compile 12 million words a second!
2021-02-27T19:14:16 #kisslinux <periish[m]> a far cry from C
2021-02-27T19:38:23 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Ah thanks
2021-02-27T19:45:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> Morning, everyone
2021-02-27T19:47:45 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ohai
2021-02-27T19:48:58 #kisslinux * midfavila waves
2021-02-27T19:50:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> I really need to get my FVWM config up on my git...
2021-02-27T19:51:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> as it stands my "version control" is to periodically sync the latest config between all my machines
2021-02-27T19:55:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> orly
2021-02-27T19:55:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> yesrly