From ljdickey Sat May 1 22:22:08 1999 Subject: Re: Jforum: QR A friendly word of advice... Be careful about how you say these things. Some might think that you are "baiting" your readers. Lee > 128!:0 is an interesting bit of J history. If it does what you want, > great. But if not, it is not productive to worry about it as we have no > intention of making any changes in this area. Except perhaps to decommit > it in future releases. > From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 2 19:59:58 1999 Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:50:16 -0400 From: Dan King Subject: Jforum: Infinite Precision for (some) Irrational Numbers Infinite Precision for (some) Irrational Numbers J benefits from the infinite precision of rational numbers. 1/3 = 1r3 Has anyone done any work to extend infinite precision to some irrational numbers as well (excluding pi but including sqroot 2 )? Here are a few of my ideas on this topic: What is a number? ... A number is a vector of integer factors, each with its exponents. ... number =. */ factors ^ exponents These exponents be they whole or fractional, can be carried through all arithmetic calculations according to the rules of algebra. The goal is to obtain almost infinite precision by carrying the irrational factors through your calculation. We would take advantage of any opportunities to cancel these factors out, thus eliminating all floating point rounding errors of irrational and (of course) rational numbers in all intermediate calculations. Naturally, some rounding error may creep in at display time, in the final calculation step, as the one root 2 we have left is finally resolved, but this can be reduced by the resolution of only those rational numbers that are necessary to derive the final answer. The benefit is that we have avoided the intermediate errors, which in some simulation programs can be considerable. I would appreciate further comments on this topic, and ideas on what can be done in J to implement this, if possible. Dan King -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 2 23:42:08 1999 Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 23:02:17 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: Infinite Precision for (some) Irrational Numbers References: <3.0.1.32.19990502195016.006c4fb0@pop1.sympatico.ca> Why would you want such rounding error "at display time"? If you really want "exact" arithmetic with irrational roots and so forth, then why not display the results as such (with either an option to convert all such displays to decimal form, or a separate primitive to do so). And why just such things as irrational numbers resulting from fractional powers? Why not such perfectly good, EXACT, numbers as log (2), sin (1/2), etc? [To use non-J notation.] In other words, what is a really justifiable place to stop? Why not go all the way, at least with purely numerical quantities, to what a typical "computer algebra system" such as Mathematica or Maple offers? Dan King wrote: > > ... The goal is to obtain almost infinite precision by carrying the irrational > factors through your calculation.... > > Naturally, some rounding error may creep in at display time, in the final > calculation step, as the one root 2 we have left is finally resolved -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 4 14:59:01 1999 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:28:43 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: variant data type Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id LAA26377 I have to use an OCX which uses VARIANT arguments. Can anyone tell me how that data is structured? I know there is a sort of data type, followed by three words which should be our equivalent of rank and shape, followed by the data. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 4 17:40:35 1999 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:59:06 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: Newer ActiveX controls Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id RAA12423 Toronto, we have a problem! We are trying to use more recent OCX controls, Farpoint Spread 3 and Olectra Chart. They both work in J but when closing the form, J bombs. This is probably attributable to some newer detail in the OCX interface. I am blocked. My project is blocked. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 4 17:44:54 1999 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:22:15 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: FarPoint Spread clipboard Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id RAA17902 Is it possible that there is a limitation in the OCX interface which brings about that cutting to the clipboard by the OCX doesn't work? I seem to get the same problem in Olectra chart. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 5 14:50:11 1999 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 14:32:54 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: m151 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id OAA13915 What is going on here? Why do the first three invocations of m151 return 3 different results? Why the same after the third? Why does redefining it start all over? m151 =: |.3:{.6!:0 m151'' 1999 5 5 m151'' 5 5 1999 m151'' 5 1999 5 m151'' 5 1999 5 m151'' 5 1999 5 m151 =: |.3:{.6!:0 m151'' 5 5 1999 m151'' 5 1999 5 m151'' 5 1999 5 m151'' 5 1999 5 m151'' 5 1999 5 6!:0 6!:0 6!:0'' 1999 5 5 14 26 37.85 6!:0'' 1999 5 5 14 26 41.42 6!:0'' 1999 5 5 14 26 42.24 |.3{.6!:0 '' 5 5 1999 |.3{.6!:0 '' 5 5 1999 |.3{.6!:0 '' 5 5 1999 |.3{.6!:0 '' 5 5 1999 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 5 15:11:58 1999 Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 19:49:30 +0100 From: Stuart Baker Subject: Re: Jforum: Cutting edge marketing techniques References: <372927EE.1691768A@worldnet.att.net> I have also just managed to start working in j, after many years experience in APL. My latest contract was capacity planning for a large project conducted by one of our new combined utilities: a 3-tier NT/ mainframe VB/MTS/SQL*server thing. They have never heard of APL or j. However, the last time I was doing capacity planning, in another mixed-machinery environment about 13 years ago, I used APL for both the data collection & presentation, and also the queue-modelling. So I said I needed j - quite a risk, as C-P is high profile, & I hadn't used it seriously before! However, because it was cheap, and I came in as a domain expert, I got what I wanted. I am currently acquiring fluency (and admiration) for the language & development environment, having got over the initial distaste for !: . I have so far been able to (a) catalogue the VB code by analysis of .vbp & .cls files etc, and (b) directly interface to the NT performance library via some real simple DLL calls. I'm not sure what the marketing lessons are from this: maybe it's just that the time to get j into an organization is when the shape of a project is still being determined. Also (as in the past with APL), when time-pressures are acknowledged - after a change in personnel, perhaps because the organization's planning function is in disarray (of course C-P often comes in here, so maybe it's a key kind of application for j, being Promethean in spanning different machinery and having good 'glueing' properties). Brian Bambrough wrote: > We're about to enter a new millenium. J is the language of the > future, but there's fierce competition. Visual Basic, C++, Java, > Delphi, you name it. > > So, if we're going to succeed we can't use our fathers' marketing > methods. We need new, hot, methods. We must network. Get our > message out onto the Web. And, above all, be prepared with PowerPoint > presentations. Right? > > Well, not necessarily. > > Last year I updated and enhanced a couple of APL systems for an > insurance company. Made them Y2K compliant too. They didn't like the > systems much. Mainly because they were written in version 4 of > Manugistics APL*PLUS II/386. Entering DOS mode and using a command > line interface was out of the Dark Ages as far as they were concerned. > They know Windows, they love Windows. All they ever want to work in > is Windows. > > At the end of the job I said to my contact "You know, the guy who > created APL, Ken Iverson, has come out with a new language, J. It's > even better than APL and it's totally Windows. I could convert these > systems to J and you'd never have to work in DOS again." > > Well, he talked to his boss. His boss said, "Ok." And now I'm > happily working on my first commercial J project. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 5 16:44:02 1999 Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:32:16 -0400 From: Daniel Torres Organization: Leo Burnett Worldwide, Latin America Headquarters Subject: Jforum: JForum: advice requested Mapped files versus RAM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7E749DB8EDD8F035CE5DEDF9" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7E749DB8EDD8F035CE5DEDF9 I am currently involved in writing a small, but arithmetically intensive application requiring sometimes summing columns, and sometimes rows of non-sparse, large, boolean matrices. I posted this situation on the APL newsgroup and was told that: a) there is no boolean representation in J; I should buy lots of RAM, which I was about to do until I was told that b) I could use mapped files, which I was bent on trying (despite the slowness of removing and adding rows to mapped matrices) until I was given the deadline for the project, so I am accepting the third suggestion that c) I should post to the J Forum. I am hoping someone here could help be avoid going down a wrong path. The problem consists of up to 100 boolean matrices, each of up to 100,000 rows and about 1000 columns. This is an optimization problem of choosing a small number of rows from each matrix, such that: a) when the rows chosen from any one matrix are added to each other, a specified percentage of the elements of the resulting vector will be greater than a minimum value. b) a row chosen for one matrix is disqualified from being chosen for another matrix. My reason for doubting the use of mapped files is my feeling that removing chosen rows would take too long with the copying of files in memory, yet not removing them would take too long with the unnecessary summing of the elements of already disqualified rows. My reason for doubting the use of RAM is my feeling that too much RAM would be required. Any direction would be greatly appreciated, even new suggestions. My only requirement is that the solution, whatever it is, be 100% in J. By the way, if there is anyone is interested in taking part in this development, I am open to the idea of delegating. Thanks. Daniel --------------7E749DB8EDD8F035CE5DEDF9 name="torres.vcf" Content-Description: Card for Daniel Torres Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="torres.vcf" begin:vcard n:Torres;Daniel tel;fax:1-978.383-5817 tel;home:1-305.441-0369 tel;work:1-305.461-6829 x-mozilla-html:TRUE adr:;;600 Biltmore Way APT 412;Coral Gables;FL;33134-7529;USA version:2.1 email;internet:torres@SAmerica.com fn:Daniel Torres end:vcard --------------7E749DB8EDD8F035CE5DEDF9-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 5 17:11:36 1999 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 16:41:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian M. Schott" Subject: Re: Jforum: m151 In-Reply-To: <199905051433_MC2-7499-7EE8@compuserve.com> I do not know the answer to your question. But following may be a clue. (B=) m152 =: [: |.3:{.6!:0 m152 '' 5 5 1999 m152 '' 5 5 1999 m152 '' 5 5 1999 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 5 18:36:54 1999 From: "Roger Hui" Subject: Jforum: Re: advice requested Mapped files versus RAM Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:24:11 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Daniel Torres writes on Wednesday, May 5: >I am currently involved in writing a small, but arithmetically intensive >application requiring sometimes summing columns, and sometimes rows of >non-sparse, large, boolean matrices. I posted this situation on the APL >newsgroup and was told that: > >a) there is no boolean representation in J; I should buy lots of RAM, which I >was about to do until I was told that > >b) I could use mapped files, which I was bent on trying (despite the slowness >of removing and adding rows to mapped matrices) until I was given the deadline >for the project, so I am accepting the third suggestion that > >c) I should post to the J Forum. I am hoping someone here could help be avoid >going down a wrong path. > > >The problem consists of up to 100 boolean matrices, each of up to 100,000 rows >and about 1000 columns. This is an optimization problem of choosing a small >number of rows from each matrix, such that: > >a) when the rows chosen from any one matrix are added to each other, a >specified percentage of the elements of the resulting vector will be greater >than a minimum value. > >b) a row chosen for one matrix is disqualified from being chosen for another >matrix. > >My reason for doubting the use of mapped files is my feeling that removing >chosen rows would take too long with the copying of files in memory, yet not >removing them would take too long with the unnecessary summing of the elements >of already disqualified rows. > ... a. J does have a boolean representation, but it uses one byte per element rather than the one bit per element in traditional APLs. So your 1e5 by 1e3 matrix would take 100 megabytes. b. +/ or +/"1 on boolean matrices is very efficient. c. However you store the matrices, whether in RAM or in mapped files (or even in APL), it is probably best to work with row indices rather than actually removing rows. i.e. instead of: m1=: b#m0 +/m1 do: j=: b#j +/j{m0 This way you avoid a lot of data movement (avoid creating copies or near copies of the original matrix). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 5 19:35:38 1999 Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:47:34 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: JForum: advice requested Mapped files versus RAM References: <3730AAD0.A2A691@SAmerica.com> Daniel Torres wrote: > > I am currently involved in writing a small, but arithmetically intensive > application requiring sometimes summing columns, and sometimes rows of > non-sparse, large, boolean matrices. An interesting BIG problem made up of lots of little bits! You are talking about 100 100mb arrays of booleans. J stores a boolean as a byte. It takes J 8 times as much space to store these arrays as it would in an APL system with bit booleans. A factor of 8 sometimes makes a difference, but you have so much data that a factor of 8 doesn't count for much. The significantly faster performance of J byte arithmetic for the kind of stuff you are describing will be much more important than the space. It is likely that memory management in this problem is significantly more important than computation time. An algorithm that deletes rows or columns in its inner loop will kill you. An algorithm that tracks deleted rows and columns and works that into the computation might do much better. If you can avoid the data movement (no deleting of rows and columns) then mapped files would be a smart choice. What about storing the data as character or integer to allow 3 states for each element: deleted/off/on Regardless, you need lots of ram. A gigabyte would take some pressure off :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 5 23:18:51 1999 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 23:01:28 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: surprised in debug Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id XAA24931 OfEach is an adverb. Why does J stop inside the adverb? How to get it going again? dbrun'' |stop | ti=.(i.#P)#~2=#OfEach Routes=.{."1>P |CleanP[3] dbrun'' |stop | (u.@>)"0 y. dbrun'' |stop | ti=.(i.#P)#~2=#OfEach Routes=.{."1>P |CleanP[3] dbrun'' |stop | (u.@>)"0 y. dbrun'' |stop | ti=.(i.#P)#~2=#OfEach Routes=.{."1>P |CleanP[3] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 8 17:49:22 1999 Date: 8 May 99 13:39:59 -0800 Subject: Jforum: Best J Machine From: "Piet de Jong" X-Fontfamily: Geneva X-Fontsize: 12 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a Macintosh J user I am finally resigning myself to having to buy a Windows machine to run J with LAPACK etc (not available for the Mac) . The machine needs to run J and nothing else. Are there any machines/configurations that are best as a "J Machine"? My work involves intensive numerical work/simulation. Thus speed and memory availability are crucial. However I would like to control costs. Any tips or suggestions? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Sat May 8 19:03:57 1999 Subject: Re: Jforum: Best J Machine > As a Macintosh J user I am finally resigning myself to having to buy a > Windows machine to run J with LAPACK etc (not available for the Mac) . This makes me sad. Every person who does this adds one more bit of evidence to Eric that he made the right decision not to support the Mac. From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 8 20:55:59 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: Best J Machine Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 20:42:41 -0400 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01BE9993.512D0620" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BE9993.512D0620 charset="iso-8859-1" I have the same problem...if you get useful private communications, please forward them to me. Henry Rich -----Original Message----- From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Piet de Jong Sent: Saturday, May 08, 1999 17:40 To: forum@JSoftware.Com Subject: Jforum: Best J Machine As a Macintosh J user I am finally resigning myself to having to buy a Windows machine to run J with LAPACK etc (not available for the Mac) . The machine needs to run J and nothing else. Are there any machines/configurations that are best as a "J Machine"? My work involves intensive numerical work/simulation. Thus speed and memory availability are crucial. However I would like to control costs. Any tips or suggestions? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BE9993.512D0620 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have=20 the same problem...if you get useful private communications,=20 please
forward them to me.
 
Henry=20 Rich
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com=20 [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Piet = de=20 Jong
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 1999 17:40
To:=20 forum@JSoftware.Com
Subject: Jforum: Best J=20 Machine

As a Macintosh J user I am finally = resigning=20 myself to having to buy a Windows
machine to run J with LAPACK = etc (not=20 available for the Mac) .

The machine needs to run J and = nothing else.=20 Are there any machines/configurations that are best as a "J=20 Machine"?

My work involves intensive numerical = work/simulation.=20 Thus speed and memory availability are crucial. However I would like = to=20 control costs.

Any tips or suggestions?=20 =



---------------------------------------------------------= -----------------------=20 J Forum: for information about this list, see=20 http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BE9993.512D0620-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Sun May 9 17:07:31 1999 Subject: RE: Jforum: Best J Machine One of the powerful attractors of APL and J has been the fact that numbers have been treated as numbers, and one did not have to get into the internal representation of data. It is my impression that until recently, these advantages have transcended the various hardare implementations. For instance, APL68000 stayed very close to APL2, both on PCs and on IBM Mainframes. Sadly, now the J group has made conscious decisions to leave the Macs behind. I resent this, because of the strong support I have the J group at the beginning of their efforts. I have no desire to move to a PC environment, and no desire to delve up to my elbows into any version of Windows. I am delighted that Apple has a new lease on life, and my use of J is constrained by E.Iverson's recent pronouncements. about LAPACK. I wonder if they would release the source code? What is so hard about porting this software, anyway? Lee From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 10 16:02:27 1999 From: "John Tsolometes" Subject: Re: Jforum: J for DOS, where? Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:48:47 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please Email J for dos any other versions source ? 4 series for win -----Original Message----- From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Jforum: J for DOS, where? >I have it for anyone who wants it - source and all. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Mon May 10 16:36:47 1999 Subject: Re: Jforum: J for DOS, where? Have you looked at the APL and J Archives at Waterloo? From johnsolo@csi.com Mon May 10 17:07:24 1999 From: "John Tsolometes" Subject: Re: Jforum: J for DOS, where? Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:07:05 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, need url -----Original Message----- From: Lee Dickey Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 4:36 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: J for DOS, where? >Have you looked at the APL and J Archives at Waterloo? > From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 00:13:12 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:02:50 -0500 From: Brian Bambrough Subject: Re: Jforum: Best J Machine References: Piet de Jong wrote: > As a Macintosh J user I am finally resigning myself to having to buy a Windows > machine to run J with LAPACK etc (not available for the Mac) . > > The machine needs to run J and nothing else. Are there any machines/configurations that are best as a "J Machine"? > > My work involves intensive numerical work/simulation. Thus speed and memory availability are crucial. However I would like to control costs. > > Any tips or suggestions? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm I build my own computers. This does not save me any money, but I get the exact configuration I want. Because you want a one-purpose machine, you may be able to save money with this approach. You can omit a lot of stuff that comes bundled with a Gateway or a Dell. OTOH, it's tough to beat their prices. They really leverage volume purchasing. I used to buy all my components at computer shows in New Hampshire. Since I moved to Michigan I no longer have access to computer shows. So now I must buy from Computer Shopper and the Web. The core of the computer is the motherboard. For m/bs I like Treasure Chest, aka TC Computers. Those people really know their m/bs and they won't let you go wrong. I bought an Asus P2B with a 400 MHz Pentium II and 256 MB RAM, last November. It cost $992.00. It came with a video-tape on how to assemble the computer. The URL is http://www.tccomputers.com/ Since then prices have dropped like a rock. Current prices are: Asus P2B $137.00 233-450MHz, 1 AGP, 3 ISA, 4 PCI, 3-168 pin DIMMs, Ultra DMA/33, Intel 440BX AGPset, Award, ATX Intel Pentium II Processor. 333MHz, 512k L2 $144.00 350MHz, 512k L2 $175.00 400MHz, 512k L2 $255.00 450MHz, 512k L2 $419.00 The "sweet spot" in price/performance is the 350 MHz chip. This is the slowest speed that utilizes a 100 MHz bus. You can save more money by buying a non-Intel CPU. But the last time I did the research, the Intel CPUs did the best job of number crunching. This may no longer be the case. I also checked out the current cost of memory. The current best price I've found for 256 MB is a little under $300. One thing I don't scrimp on is the case/power supply combo. I always buy these from PC Power & Cooling. The cases are very well thought out, with lots of nice touches to make it (relatively) easy to assemble the computer. The documentation is minimal, but that shouldn't be a problem. The URL is http://www.pcpowercooling.com/ The reason that you might save money with this approach is that there's a lot of stuff you don't need. For example, you don't need a CD drive. Just take one out of an existing machine to load Windows, then put it back. You may not need a monitor, keyboard and mouse. There's a device you can buy that allows you to flip a switch so that these devices work with any of several computers. This works for a multiple PC setup. I don't know if it would work with a mix of a mac and a PC. You may want to consider an IDE or parallel Iomega Zip drive. These are available for $70 to $80. You can download most of the Windows directory onto one Zip disk. Then if (when) Windows self-destructs, you can restore without opening up the computer to reinstall the CD drive. The downside of this approach is the amount of time it takes. The guys at the computer shows can assemble a custom computer and install all the software in about 20 minutes. It takes me days, maybe weeks, of my spare time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 01:20:11 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:09:15 +0100 From: maxray Subject: Re: Jforum: Best J Machine References: <3737B9F9.E8657EC3@worldnet.att.net> Hi Brian, Those are pretty good prices and references. I've been thinking of upgrading my PII-266 96MB system. I dont know how to get rid of it though ! Do you know if one can run a mixed cpu combo. on a dual cpu board, such as , lets say 266MHz PII and a 350 MHz PII ? Yes, I realize its more a hardware than a J forum question. Apologies in advance. Regards, Max Brian Bambrough wrote: > Piet de Jong wrote: > > > As a Macintosh J user I am finally resigning myself to having to buy a Windows > > machine to run J with LAPACK etc (not available for the Mac) . > > > > The machine needs to run J and nothing else. Are there any machines/configurations that are best as a "J Machine"? > > > > My work involves intensive numerical work/simulation. Thus speed and memory availability are crucial. However I would like to control costs. > > > > Any tips or suggestions? > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > > I build my own computers. This does not save me any money, but I get > the exact configuration I want. Because you want a one-purpose > machine, you may be able to save money with this approach. You can > omit a lot of stuff that comes bundled with a Gateway or a Dell. > OTOH, it's tough to beat their prices. They really leverage volume > purchasing. > > I used to buy all my components at computer shows in New Hampshire. > Since I moved to Michigan I no longer have access to computer shows. > So now I must buy from Computer Shopper and the Web. > > The core of the computer is the motherboard. For m/bs I like Treasure > Chest, aka TC Computers. Those people really know their m/bs and they > won't let you go wrong. I bought an Asus P2B with a 400 MHz Pentium > II and 256 MB RAM, last November. It cost $992.00. It came with a > video-tape on how to assemble the computer. The URL is > http://www.tccomputers.com/ > > Since then prices have dropped like a rock. Current prices are: > > Asus P2B $137.00 > 233-450MHz, 1 AGP, 3 ISA, 4 PCI, 3-168 pin DIMMs, Ultra DMA/33, Intel > 440BX AGPset, Award, ATX > > Intel Pentium II Processor. > 333MHz, 512k L2 $144.00 > 350MHz, 512k L2 $175.00 > 400MHz, 512k L2 $255.00 > 450MHz, 512k L2 $419.00 > > The "sweet spot" in price/performance is the 350 MHz chip. This is > the slowest speed that utilizes a 100 MHz bus. > > You can save more money by buying a non-Intel CPU. But the last time > I did the research, the Intel CPUs did the best job of number > crunching. This may no longer be the case. > > I also checked out the current cost of memory. The current best price > I've found for 256 MB is a little under $300. > > One thing I don't scrimp on is the case/power supply combo. I always > buy these from PC Power & Cooling. The cases are very well thought > out, with lots of nice touches to make it (relatively) easy to > assemble the computer. The documentation is minimal, but that > shouldn't be a problem. The URL is http://www.pcpowercooling.com/ > > The reason that you might save money with this approach is that > there's a lot of stuff you don't need. For example, you don't need a > CD drive. Just take one out of an existing machine to load Windows, > then put it back. You may not need a monitor, keyboard and mouse. > There's a device you can buy that allows you to flip a switch so that > these devices work with any of several computers. This works for a > multiple PC setup. I don't know if it would work with a mix of a mac > and a PC. > > You may want to consider an IDE or parallel Iomega Zip drive. These > are available for $70 to $80. You can download most of the Windows > directory onto one Zip disk. Then if (when) Windows self-destructs, > you can restore without opening up the computer to reinstall the CD > drive. > > The downside of this approach is the amount of time it takes. The > guys at the computer shows can assemble a custom computer and install > all the software in about 20 minutes. It takes me days, maybe weeks, > of my spare time. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 05:45:56 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:12:04 +0300 From: "Gilbert Giapp�si" Organization: I.T. Consult s.a.r.l. Subject: Re: Jforum: Best J Machine References: <3737B9F9.E8657EC3@worldnet.att.net> <3737752B.8CD08C75@cloud9.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To Brian and Max, Just to bring to your attention that to my knowledge, not all PII are featured with the capability to ... compete onto the same mother board. There are there some limitations to be verifyed ... Gilbert Giapp�si P.O. Box 16-5877 Beirut - Lebanon (+961) (3) 421099 gilgiapp@club-internet.fr itconslt@dm.net.lb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 10:44:40 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:29:17 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 beta The J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a.exe Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 12:50:08 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:35:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "J. Patrick Harrington" Subject: Jforum: Plot problem with J for Windows CE I have been running the Studio/Demos in J402a on my Velo 500 handheld, which is a Windows CE device with a MIPS processor. I find that in the "plot" demo, under "Styles", the the "Point" type only displays the axes and title, but no data is plotted. I've run this demo under Win NT, so I know what is missing. It is not a color problem (the Velo has has only a 16-level greyscale screen) as setting pd 'color black' doesn't help. The "Dot" and the various line types seem OK. Is this a known problem/bug? It is annoying, since the 'point' style is the one I would be most likely to make frequent use of. J. Patrick Harrington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 13:57:53 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:26:36 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 beta In-Reply-To: <37383EBD.7BA2@interlog.com> Thanks, The syntax colouring is great! It seems that initially some projects may need that the library files are redefined. I tried directly and the nuilding a pr oject script did not suceed. After deselecting+selecting the project files again all went fine. What does the Test button do in PM? In code editor ctr-shift-F2 did not clear any marks Anssi At 10:29 11.5.1999 -0400, you wrote: >The J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). > > http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a.exe > >Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release >Notes). > >Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 14:36:21 1999 X-Lotus-FromDomain: JPMORGAN@SMTP From: "Jacob Moskowitz" Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:03:33 -0400 Subject: Jforum: Real Part of List Array matrix ? Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline An array z contains complex numbers. What is the best/fastest way to get an array of the real parts of z ? (z++z)%2 works, but because of the division, I question its speed with floats and there is the concern of always getting perfect cancellation of the imaginary component. 9 o. z also works, but I have no idea what it's doing "inside" Somewhow I suspect I should be using +. z but attempting to extract the real part instead extracts complex elements of the matrix, and it seems that part extraction would have to be dependent on the rank of z, never mind the "philosophical" discomfort with mixing indexing of complex numbers and vector / matrix indexing. Many thanks in advance for any assistance. - Jacob Moskowitz consultant JP Morgan Fixed-Income Application Development New York, NY moskowitz_jacob@jpmorgan.com (212) 235-3787 This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any transaction, unless specifically agreed otherwise. All market prices, data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and is subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan & Co. Incorporated, its subsidiaries and affiliates. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 15:27:10 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:10:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Martin Neitzel Subject: Re: Jforum: Real Part of List Array matrix ? > What is the best/fastest way to get an array of the real parts of z ? > > [...] Somewhow I suspect I should be using +. z but attempting > to extract the real part instead extracts complex elements of the matrix, > it seems that part extraction would have to be dependent on the rank of z, > never mind the "philosophical" discomfort with mixing indexing of complex > numbers and vector / matrix indexing. {.@+. is just fine. In particular, it will return one real for each complex number. This is what rank is all about, no need for any discomfort. Martin Neitzel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Tue May 11 15:29:12 1999 Subject: Re: Jforum: Real Part of List Array matrix ? > An array z contains complex numbers. > What is the best/fastest way to get an array of the real parts of z ? I think you will like 9 o. z ... From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 15:44:35 1999 From: Lee Dickey Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Jforum: Real Part of List Array matrix ? > An array z contains complex numbers. > What is the best/fastest way to get an array of the real parts of z ? I think you will like 9 o. z ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 16:06:08 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:53:18 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J4.03 editor Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id PAA07121 This gives colors where it shouldn't:. Some of the lines have a single quote which starts coloring until the ending double quote. Furthermore, right click doesn't show the copy, paste,cut menu. No need to remove useful stuff. TrTable=: 2 Columns 0 : 0 "Main Control Panel" "Tableau de contr�le principal" "Release Memory" "Lib�re la m�moire" "Release free memory blocks" "Lib�re la m�moire inutilis�e" "About" "� propos" "Batch" "Lots" "Stops Tables" "Tables d'arr�ts" "Make Set" "Voyages" "Clone Me" "Clone moi" "Restart in French" "Recommencer en anglais" "User Directory Selection" "R�pertoire de l'utilisateur" ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 16:14:17 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:22:08 -0400 From: Cliff Reiter Subject: Re: Jforum: Real Part of List Array matrix ? Organization: Lafayette College Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <8525676E.005C9445.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> Jacob Moskowitz wrote: > > An array z contains complex numbers. > What is the best/fastest way to get an array of the real parts of z ? > > (z++z)%2 works, but because of the division, I question its speed with > floats > and there is the concern of always getting perfect cancellation of the > imaginary > component. > > 9 o. z also works, but I have no idea what it's doing "inside" > > Somewhow I suspect I should be using +. z but attempting to extract > the real part > instead extracts complex elements of the matrix, and it seems that part > extraction would > have to be dependent on the rank of z, never mind the "philosophical" > discomfort > with mixing indexing of complex numbers and vector / matrix indexing. > > Many thanks in advance for any assistance. > > - Jacob Moskowitz > consultant > JP Morgan > > Fixed-Income Application Development > New York, NY An experiment: ]z=.j./(?%])2 10 10$1e9 0.15111j0.222595 0.710341j0.156345 0.707853j0.697061 0.881481j0.508082 0.0587614j0.330618 0.602618j0.70019 0.206381j0.0920011 0.652686j0.263124 0.700703j0.317428 0.722804j0.0194703 0.162821j0.23659 0.532665j0.363958 0.505203j0.0455168 0.954499j0.000390649 0.270253j0.565643 0.142609j0.760465 ...[bunch deleted] ts=.6!:2,7!:2@] NB. time in sec & space 1000 ts 'a=.9&o. z' 0.00026 3136 1000 ts 'b=.{.@+. z' 0.000872 8640 1000 ts 'c=.(-:@+ +) z' 0.001082 12416 a-:b 1 a-:c 1 Looks like 9&o. wins. It is what I've used in inner loops before and it appears to be a good choice currently too. Cliff -- Clifford A. Reiter Mathematics Department, Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 USA, 610-330-5277 http://www.lafayette.edu/~reiterc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 16:29:15 1999 From: "Roger Hui" References: <8525676E.005C9445.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> Subject: Jforum: Re: Real Part of List Array matrix ? Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:53:32 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Jacob Moskowitz writes on Tuesday, May 11: > An array z contains complex numbers. > What is the best/fastest way to get an array of the real parts of z ? > > (z++z)%2 works, but because of the division, I question its speed > with floats and there is the concern of always getting perfect > cancellation of the imaginary component. > > 9 o. z also works, but I have no idea what it's doing "inside" > > Somewhow I suspect I should be using +. z but attempting to extract > the real part instead extracts complex elements of the matrix, > and it seems that part extraction would have to be dependent > on the rank of z, never mind the "philosophical" discomfort > with mixing indexing of complex numbers and vector / matrix indexing. You can use a simple benchmark to decide between 9 o. z or {."1@:+. z . Thus: ts=: 6!:2 , 7!:2@] z=: j./ _5e4 + ? 2 1e5 $1e5 $z 100000 (9 o. z) -: {."1 @: +. z 1 10 ts '9 o. z' 0.154 2.09805e6 10 ts '{."1 @: +. z' 0.055 3.14746e6 The time/space is small enough that probably other parts of the computation would dominate. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 17:06:19 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:49:24 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 editor References: <199905111553_MC2-754F-BFD4@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > > This gives colors where it shouldn't:... (simplified example) t=: 0 : 0 Tables d'arr�ts ) The code editor colors everything as code. It doesn't know how to distinguish between between code and text. Neither do I. This is the simple choice. Any other choice gets complicated and might just move the problem around. The current rule (everything is code) allows a line to be colored by itself (it doesn't depend on preceeding or following lines) and this is a great simplification. There is a trade off. If you like colored code, you'll have to put up with some anomolous colored text. If this bothers you too much, turn off code coloring (or at least ' coloring). Maybe, as we get more experience with this, improvments will prove possible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 17:12:46 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:58:30 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 editor References: <199905111553_MC2-754F-BFD4@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > right click doesn't show the copy, paste,cut menu. No need to remove useful > stuff. I'll look at reinstating this. I agree the right mouse menu is pretty standard. All those standard commands are available with equally standard keyboard shortcuts. The only one I ever found useful before was select all, and I now find the ctrl+left margin mouse click to be more convenient. The reason it was left out is that I think it will be much more useful to provide a user defined right mouse menu with your own list of commands. Until this is done, it might make sense to keep the old standard. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 17:28:41 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:15:06 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 editor Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id RAA02955 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >keep the old standard.< It is everywhere. It is not anywhere near old. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 17:41:49 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:20:06 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 editor Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id RAA07434 "Stops Tables" "Tables d'arr�ts" The current rule (everything is code) allows a line to be colored by itself (it doesn't depend on preceeding or following lines) and this is a great simplification. I agree to make it simple. Since you don't color strings between double quotes, then don't color anything between a single quote and a double. Just color strings between single quotes. That way, both lines at the beginning of this message would be uncolored. No trade off. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 17:43:52 1999 From: "Bjorn G. Helgason" Subject: RE: Jforum: J 4.03 beta Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:39:34 +-100 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE9BF7.064D28E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE9BF7.064D28E0 As you may well know then Debug is a special favorite for me in this beta. The first impression is that it looks very promising and you are on the right track. I managed to get a strange behaviour in the last steps of the lab when I was in step 24 dbstop 'pqr' pqr 7 143 628 Because I had not gone out of the example in step 23. It was still active so executing pqr 7 I should have been getting monadic but I got dyadic in the debug window. The colouring also looks promising It is about time to get back into active J mode. I have been neglacting J quite a bit I am afraid these last few months. Thanks for this Beta. 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Helgason" Subject: RE: Jforum: Best J Machine - Linux Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:10:40 +-100 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE9BEF.6D0844A0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE9BEF.6D0844A0 From: Piet de Jong[SMTP:piet.dejong@commerce.ubc.ca] > As a Macintosh J user I am finally resigning myself to having to > buy a Windows machine to run J with LAPACK etc (not > available for the Mac) . > The machine needs to run J and nothing else. Are there any > machines/configurations that are best as a "J Machine"? Linux > My work involves intensive numerical work/simulation. Thus speed and > memory availability are crucial. However I would like to control > costs. 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Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 editor References: <199905111721_MC2-755F-3979@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > The current rule (everything is code) > allows a line to be colored by itself (it doesn't depend on preceeding > or following lines) and this is a great simplification. > > I agree to make it simple. Since you don't color strings between double > quotes, then don't color anything between a single quote and a double. Just > color strings between single quotes. That way, both lines at the beginning > of this message would be uncolored. > > No trade off. In J the " character is a primitive (rank). It is not a quote type character. Since the line is code, the " is a primitive. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 20:52:42 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:28:09 -0400 From: Cliff Reiter Subject: Re: Jforum: Re: Real Part of List Array matrix ? Organization: Lafayette College Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <8525676E.005C9445.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> <004401be9bd1$17c96fa0$e9b1ba89@f3nbp.lafayette.edu> > 10 ts '9 o. z' > 0.154 2.09805e6 > 10 ts '{."1 @: +. z' > 0.055 3.14746e6 > > The time/space is small enough that probably other > parts of the computation would dominate. > {."1@:+. is wonderful! I stand enlightened a bit. Cliff -- Clifford A. Reiter Mathematics Department, Lafayette College Easton, PA 18042 USA, 610-330-5277 http://www.lafayette.edu/~reiterc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 22:20:52 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:05:35 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 editor Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id WAA20142 Oh. I see now. Open quote. I had mistaken the coloring for a quoted string. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 23:11:56 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:58:40 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: j 4.03 tabs in display of ijs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id XAA25661 I liked the tab spacing and used it to clearly indent. If I had wanted a single space, I would have done so. Why the sudden downgrading of tab? Where to reset its default value of 1 to another? The scripts display is broken. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 11 23:17:52 1999 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:01:19 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: j 4.03 ctrl-arrow Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id XAA26078 Why complicate the two finger stroke ctrl-arrow? It is one of the most common actions: adjusting the last statement you just did. Now it is three fingers. More complicated. More effort. Why do this? You should ask first before doing this. I use ctrl-arrow hundreds of times a day. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 03:50:27 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Jforum: Colouring Date: Wed, 12 May 99 07:39:39 +0000 I like the colour option I would like to change the default colours of control words to dark brown and unmatched parenthesis to red Are there more possible things that can receive different colours? /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 05:06:41 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:35:54 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: Working with 4.03beta In-Reply-To: <3739303c3cc4001@blik.skima.is> INow I have a problem. I want to work with the beta system, but what are the risks if I move my production on 4.03 beta right now? Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 06:24:04 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: Working with 4.03beta Date: Wed, 12 May 99 10:06:27 +0000 > INow I have a problem. I want to work with the beta system, but what are > the risks if I move my production on 4.03 beta right now? > > Anssi One should never work with a Beta. Everything and anything can happen and there are no guarantees for any functionality to remain in the product nor be unchanged. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 07:11:40 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:35:54 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: Working with 4.03beta In-Reply-To: <3739303c3cc4001@blik.skima.is> INow I have a problem. I want to work with the beta system, but what are the risks if I move my production on 4.03 beta right now? Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 08:01:53 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:52:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: Martin Neitzel Subject: Jforum: j 4.03 ctrl-arrow > Why complicate the two finger stroke ctrl-arrow? > [...] I use ctrl-arrow hundreds of times a day. I completely agree. I wrote the WorkBench because I considered even the Ctrl-Ups to be too much hassle. The WorkBench keeps the phrase under development in place. Hitting the Return key triggers evaluation, but the cursor stays in the phrase at its position. The WorkBench keeps also track of the test parameters without tying them into the phrase definition. The recent changes in the WorkBench guarantee that it will be able to run without a single line change. The only thing you have to do is to drop the CVS module formally referenced as :pserver:anoncvs@juggle.gaertner.de:/j-contrib-w into your Windows J directory. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 08:39:09 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <3739303c3cc4001@blik.skima.is> Subject: Re: Jforum: Colouring Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:25:54 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" The Edit|Configure|Color dialog lists about 20-odd things that can be coloured, including control words and unmatched parens, and you can also roll your own. Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 3:39 AM Subject: Jforum: Colouring > I like the colour option > > I would like to change the default colours of control words > to dark brown and unmatched parenthesis > to red > > Are there more possible things that can receive > different colours? > > /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 08:58:09 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:44:14 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 tabs in display of ijs References: <199905112300_MC2-7560-D30C@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > > I liked the tab spacing and used it to clearly indent. If I had wanted a > single space, I would have done so. Why the sudden downgrading of tab? > Where to reset its default value of 1 to another? The scripts display is > broken. Others have complained of this as well. I now see it was a mistake and will reenable tab. I'll put up a new beta with this and a few other changes late today. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 09:15:17 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:59:55 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Working with 4.03beta References: <4.1.19990512113108.00c697d0@pop.kolumbus.fi> Anssi Seppala wrote: > INow I have a problem. I want to work with the beta system, but what are > the risks if I move my production on 4.03 beta right now? The beta is a beta and that means the risks are unknown. However, I think it is quite stable and don't expect serious problems with the core engine as most changes were in the GUI. You could move your development to the beta with caution. Obviously you can't distribute anything with the beta. The beta expires at the end of this month. The release will be before the end of the month. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 09:21:22 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:49:57 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 ctrl-arrow References: <199905112302_MC2-7560-D35A@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > > Why complicate the two finger stroke ctrl-arrow? It is one of the most > common actions: adjusting the last statement you just did. Now it is three > fingers. More complicated. More effort. Why do this? You should ask first > before doing this. I use ctrl-arrow hundreds of times a day. Providing the beta is an effective way of asking. Almost all other editors use ctrl+up/down arrow to scroll the view. I decided that following this standard was fairly important. This meant that line recall had to be something different, and I chose ctrl+shift+up/down. I still think this was the right choice. Give it a little more chance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 10:43:54 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:30:10 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 ctrl-arrow Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id KAA28439 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >Almost all other editors use ctrl+up/down arrow to scroll the view.< People here are keyboard people. They use more often the keyboard rather than the mouse. They never use ctrl-uparrow to scroll. They page up and down. THe command may be everywhere, theoretically. Do we want to be compatible with an unused standard or make it easier for the human users? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 10:56:25 1999 X-Lotus-FromDomain: JPMORGAN@SMTP From: "Jacob Moskowitz" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:38:46 -0400 Subject: Jforum: Font Suggestion Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline As long as we seem to be tinkering with the user interface - On a high res screens eg 1600x1200 or XGA Laptop, the default ISIJ font is not very legible at small sizes, especially given the crucial role played by puctuation characters in J, so I usually need to expand them to 12 points, reducing the amount of code I can view simultaneously in a window. Standard Windows fonts such as Terminal or even Lucida are much more legible at very small sizes, but of course lack the linedrawing chars. If feasible, I would suggest an alternative J font based on Terminal, or Lucida, if it needs to be TrueType. Many thanks. - Jake Moskowitz moskowitz_jacob@jpmorgan.com (212) 235-3787 This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any transaction, unless specifically agreed otherwise. All market prices, data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and is subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan & Co. Incorporated, its subsidiaries and affiliates. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 11:04:06 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <4.1.19990511201002.00baf8d0@pop.kolumbus.fi> Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 beta Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:53:30 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: Anssi Seppala Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 beta > What does the Test button do in PM? It runs the script you select as a Test script. Add this in the Project Tab. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 11:06:41 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:52:58 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: ijx output truncated with ... Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id KAA06367 Problem here. Could this be optional? I regularly look at data that displays after the 256 first characters. If you implement this, then I have to make all sorts of extra complicated display systems just to look at data. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 11:07:00 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:53:32 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 ctrl-arrow References: <199905121030_MC2-7575-3FF@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > People here are keyboard people. They use more often the keyboard rather > than the mouse. They never use ctrl-uparrow to scroll. They page up and > down. THe command may be everywhere, theoretically. Do we want to be > compatible with an unused standard or make it easier for the human users? We are not talking about the mouse. A window editor standard is that ctrl+up/down arrow keys scroll the view by one line. This is quite useful and I find that I use it quite a bit. Try it, you'll like it. This is more useful in ijs windows than in ijx. The ctrl+shift+up/down is not a difficult key combination. What is difficult is the transition, especially while using both the old and new. I think you'll get used to the new way pretty quickly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 11:55:40 1999 From: "Simon Garland" Subject: Jforum: J403a publish Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:38:08 +0200 charset="iso-8859-1" the script -> HTML publisher is very nice, but wouldn't it be better to do the formating with style sheets? for a one off display with embedded styles, but for publishing+keeping using a global style sheet file (ijs.css?) which makes it easy to keep the format of all published source files synchronised? /simon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 12:20:38 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:08:00 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: j 4.03 scrolling Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id MAA01591 Will we have scrolling with the wheel on the mouse? THAT is a commonly used standard. ctrl-arrow scrolls in wordpad but not in notepad. In wordpad ctrl-shift-arrow tags text. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Wed May 12 12:37:16 1999 Subject: Re: Jforum: J for DOS, where? The top of the Archives ftp://watserv1.uwaterloo.ca/languages/apl/Welcome.html The J pages, for J 6.2 and J 7 ftp://watserv1.uwaterloo.ca/languages/j/early_j/ > > Yes, need url > > From: Lee Dickey > To: johnsolo@csi.com > Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: Jforum: J for DOS, where? > > > >Have you looked at the APL and J Archives at Waterloo? > > From ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca Wed May 12 12:37:18 1999 From: Lee Dickey Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Jforum: J for DOS, where? The top of the Archives ftp://watserv1.uwaterloo.ca/languages/apl/Welcome.html The J pages, for J 6.2 and J 7 ftp://watserv1.uwaterloo.ca/languages/j/early_j/ > > Yes, need url > > From: Lee Dickey > To: johnsolo@csi.com > Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: Jforum: J for DOS, where? > > > >Have you looked at the APL and J Archives at Waterloo? > > From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 14:15:57 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:01:09 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 scrolling References: <199905121208_MC2-7577-E2C9@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The wheel on a Microsoft Intellimouse (with current drivers, under Windows 98) works ALREADY with J 4.02 to scroll in both session manager window and in editor windows! At least it works in the following respect: rolling it up or down scrolls the currently active window accordingly. What does NOT currently (in J 4.02) work is the "automatic" smooth scrolling such as in Intellimouse-enabled applications like Microsoft Word 97: click the mouse wheel, then move the mouse, say down; the window contents automatically scroll, and the scrolling speed can be increased or decreased by moving the mouse further down or back up. "Alain Miville de Ch�ne" wrote: > > Will we have scrolling with the wheel on the mouse? THAT is a commonly used > standard. > ctrl-arrow scrolls in wordpad but not in notepad. In wordpad > ctrl-shift-arrow tags text. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 14:40:51 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:28:01 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 debug problem. Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id OAA16420 I had dbr 1 Then I suppose a real problem occured in my code. What does this mean: |index error: j_dir |j_dir[0] dbs'' |dbs[0] | dbs'' |j_dir[0] | 'v s c l d f q'=. j_dir h |jsize_jfiles_[2] |jsize[0] | <:# jsize VerFile=:editDataDir,'Version.ijs' |StopsTables_btnDataDir_button[6] | StopsTables_btnDataDir_button'' |create__w[9] | create__w x. |conew[:1] | s=:'StopsTables' conew~ClientBase,'Config\' |ControlPanel_btnStops_button[3] | fn~'' |wdhandler_0_[8] | wdhandler_0_'' h 269032976 j_dir [: 7&{. [: 3!:2 [: 1!:11 ;&0 256 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 15:03:14 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:50:58 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 debug Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id OAA23944 Why value error on w? getstack doesn't reference w. loadp 'j:\projects\busstops\main.ijp' |value error: w |getstack[0] dbs'' |dbs[0] | dbs'' |getstack[0] | AA_jdebug_=: getstack'' |debug_jdebug_[7] | debug_jdebug_ coname$0 |j_dir[0] | 'v s c l d f q'=. j_dir h |jsize_jfiles_[2] |jsize[0] | <:# jsize VerFile=:editDataDir,'Version.ijs' |StopsTables_btnDataDir_button[6] | StopsTables_btnDataDir_button'' |create__w[9] | create__w x. |conew[:1] | (conl 1)e.~s=:y. conew'StopsTables' |ControlPanel_btnStops_button[10] | ControlPanel_btnStops_button ClientBase,'Config\' |ControlPanel_btnBatch_button[4] | ControlPanel_btnBatch_button'' |create__w[11] | create__w x. |conew[:1] | c=.y. conew'ControlPanel' |Go[7] | Go ClientBase | (3 :0)'' |[-11] |script__[0] | script__<'j:\busstops\app\release.ijs' | 3 :(n,'_',l,'_ <''',f,'''')0 |loads[:7] | x. loads getscripts y. |load[:0] | XTARGETLOCALE load f |runprojectfiles[9] | runprojectfiles y.=2 |runproject1[4] | runproject1 0 |runproject[1] |projectform_load_button[0] | fn~'' |wdhandler_jproject_[8] | wdhandler_jproject_'' dbg 3 : 0 if. y. do. if. 0 = (<'COCLASSPATH') e. namelist_jdebug_ 0 do. load 'system\extras\util\debugs.ijs' end. open_jdebug_'' wd 'smselact;smfocus' else. close_jdebug_ :: ] '' dblxs '' dbr 0 end. ) getstack [: (}.~ (0: i.~ 0: = [: > 1: {"1 ])) 13!:13 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 15:11:45 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:34:31 -0400 From: Daniel Torres Organization: Leo Burnett Worldwide, Latin America Headquarters Subject: Re: Jforum: Font Suggestion References: <8525676F.004A3FF4.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------54CE547FDD4D3B8AC9A6920E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------54CE547FDD4D3B8AC9A6920E I second the font suggestion. The font that is still readable at the smallest size, or from the greatest distance, would be my choice, if then I can set it at the smallest size that is comfortable for me. Daniel Jacob Moskowitz wrote: > > ... > > Standard Windows fonts such as Terminal or even Lucida are much more > legible at very small sizes, but of course lack the linedrawing chars. > > If feasible, I would suggest an alternative J font based on Terminal, or > Lucida, if it needs to be TrueType. > > Many thanks. > > - Jake Moskowitz > > ... --------------54CE547FDD4D3B8AC9A6920E name="torres.vcf" Content-Description: Card for Daniel Torres Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="torres.vcf" begin:vcard n:Torres;Daniel tel;fax:1-978.383-5817 tel;home:1-305.441-0369 tel;work:1-305.461-6829 x-mozilla-html:TRUE adr:;;600 Biltmore Way APT 412;Coral Gables;FL;33134-7529;USA version:2.1 email;internet:torres@SAmerica.com fn:Daniel Torres end:vcard --------------54CE547FDD4D3B8AC9A6920E-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 17:12:59 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:02:29 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 debug - my mistake. Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id PAA27709 Disregards my previous two messages on this subject. I used jsize and should have used fsize. It is the common case of finding a strange looking error while using a beta: must be the beta. In this case, must be me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 17:26:05 1999 Delivered-To: fixup-forum@jsoftware.com@fixme Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:03:49 -0700 From: greg heil Subject: Re: Jforum: Font Suggestion References: <8525676F.004A3FF4.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> Hi Jake Old timers on this list are probably mostly using Norman Drinkwaters suggestion, Monotype.com, as their font. Monotype is available at: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fontpack Perhaps someone should negotiate to get this bundled with the J distribution? However Chris said back in October that it might be difficult to licence and suggested a note in the documentation. A quick look, using Find in Help, did not show a reference to it though... greg heil mailto:gheil@acm.org http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 17:43:40 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <199905121105_MC2-7568-C952@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:33:46 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 11:05 AM Subject: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor > In ijx windows, there is not much point to Home returning to the left > margin. It should return to the beginning of the entered statement. Every > time I want to add something to the beginning of a statement: Home, right > arrow, right arrow, .... Yes, this is a nice feature of the new editor. On any line: press home once - moves to the beginning of the entered statment press home twice - moves to the beginning of the line. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 17:45:29 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <3739303c3cc4001@blik.skima.is> <373996E9.71EB6409@hal-pc.org> Subject: Re: Jforum: Colouring Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:38:24 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Guinn Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 10:57 AM Subject: Re: Jforum: Colouring > Well, its Christmas time! How about global copulas? Especially within an explicit > definition. I'm always having to look very closely to tell a global from a local as > there is only a flyspeck difference. I know that the list of special colors for > special things could go on an on, but an accidental global copula for a local or the > reverse can cause problems especially difficult to track down. Christmas is early this year. Global assignments can be colored - see the list in the Edit|Configure|Color dialog. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 18:01:44 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:51:50 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor References: <199905121105_MC2-7568-C952@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > > While we are working onthe code editor, there is a feature sorely lacking: > automatic recognition of indentation. In VB, Visual C++, and many other > code editors, if you are entering code with indentation (usually provided > by tabs), Enter returns to the proper indentation level rather than the > left margin. > > In ijx windows, there is not much point to Home returning to the left > margin. It should return to the beginning of the entered statement. Every > time I want to add something to the beginning of a statement: Home, right > arrow, right arrow, .... Your second wish is already granted. Home moves to the first non-blank/non-tab character. When I put up a new beta version tonight with tabs back at 4, you should have want you want in this area. The first part of your request (auto indent after enter) is a bit trickier. I'd need to think about it before including it in a beta. I don't think it will make it into this release. It could in the next. I must admit I like that feature when coding in other languages. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 18:07:19 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:56:36 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Working with 4.03beta References: <4.1.19990512113108.00c697d0@pop.kolumbus.fi> <37397B4B.5CF@interlog.com> <3739BFC1.55A38D32@math.umass.edu> Murray Eisenberg wrote: > > In what ways will installing the beta interfere -- Registry changes, > e.g. -- with using 4.02? The only registry entries J makes that are of any importance are the registry entries for the COM JEXEServer and JDLLServer. These are important only if you run applications that use J as an Automation server. Any J install updates those entries to point at the new install. You would have to use jreg.exe in another installation directory to reset the pointers there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 18:20:08 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:03:33 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Colouring References: <3739303c3cc4001@blik.skima.is> <373996E9.71EB6409@hal-pc.org> Don Guinn wrote: > > Well, its Christmas time! How about global copulas? Chris pointed out that you can color the NAME to the left of a =: and =. differently. In addition, you could use either as a keyword and color the =: or =. primitive differently. There is a lot of stuff to play with in the color dialog! Perhaps Anne will eventually want to post a prize for the best and worst submitted color schemes. I'm not sure what first prize would be, but second would be perpetual beta testing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 22:03:33 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:51:25 -0500 From: Brian Bambrough Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor References: <199905121105_MC2-7568-C952@compuserve.com> <3739F7F6.383F@interlog.com> Eric Iverson wrote: > The first part of your request (auto indent after enter) is a bit > trickier. I'd need to think about it before including it in a beta. I > don't think it will make it into this release. It could in the next. I > must admit I like that feature when coding in other languages. I, for one, would prefer not to have auto-indent. When I have worked in various dialects of BASIC I have found it to be a nuisance as often as it has been a help. If the consensus is to have it implemented, perhaps you could give us the ability to turn it off in edit/configure. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 22:17:10 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:03:03 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (version 2) References: <199905121053_MC2-7578-D36E@compuserve.com> A second version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a.exe This has a few minor fixes: tabs; ctrl+shift+F2 clears marks; debug interactions with other forms (e.g., pousse). Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 23:11:40 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:56:11 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor References: <199905121105_MC2-7568-C952@compuserve.com> I second the suggestions of others that the editor: (1) automatically indent to the same level as the preceding line; (2) allow configuration for variable tab widths. I expect these features in programming editors. -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 23:21:03 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:07:54 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 scrolling References: <199905121436_MC2-757B-BA4A@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Could be a question of how recent your Intellimouse driver is. I tried to find out the version I'm using (which I had downloaded from the MS site long after buying the mouse), but I haven't a clue where under Windows 98 to find that information! "Alain Miville de Ch�ne" wrote: > > Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com > >At least it works in the following respect: rolling it up or down > scrolls the currently active window accordingly.< > > Hmmm..... I tried again in J4.03 ijx and ijs windows. Didn't work. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 12 23:26:29 1999 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:14:33 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor References: <199905121105_MC2-7568-C952@compuserve.com> <3739F7F6.383F@interlog.com> <373A3E2D.5374F79F@worldnet.att.net> I'm not sure I see why auto-indent (upon Enter after an indented line) would be a nuisance: Why would you be indenting a line of code but in order to indent a (large or small) multi-line block within, say, an if. ... do. ... end. clause? At the end of the indented block, a single Backspace/Tab would remove the indent from the next line. That's just one "extra" keyboard step per indented block; without automatic indentation, it takes an extra keystroke of Tab for EVERY line in the block. Brian Bambrough wrote: > > Eric Iverson wrote: > > > The first part of your request (auto indent after enter) is a bit > > trickier. I'd need to think about it before including it in a beta. I > > don't think it will make it into this release. It could in the next. I > > must admit I like that feature when coding in other languages. > > I, for one, would prefer not to have auto-indent. When I have worked in various > dialects of BASIC I have found it to be a nuisance as often as it has been a help. > > If the consensus is to have it implemented, perhaps you could give us the ability to > turn it off in edit/configure. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 02:39:50 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:14:38 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: Color global/local assignment It shows that the coloring on assignments work only by selecting global assignment and then both global/local assignment are coloured. Setting colourin on local assignment has no effect. This was tested with latest beta created 12.may. Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 02:41:12 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:54:40 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: Dblclick & wdview In-Reply-To: <007301be9c89$53c49f80$510114d1@Pcdburke> References: <199905121053_MC2-7578-D36E@compuserve.com> Chris, What about an idea to run wdiview on name that is doubleclicked? I put cursor on a name in session, doubleclick (or shift enter) and J reads the name and opens wdview if the noun or verb is defined. Anssi At 11:08 12.5.1999 -0400, you wrote: >Instead, I prefer wdview data, or wdview ":data. This is not much to >type in, and leaves the session unchanged. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 03:06:34 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (version 2) Date: Thu, 13 May 99 06:52:21 +0000 > A second version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). > I trust you will tell when to do a total replace and not just install over the last one before. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 03:12:27 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Jforum: unmatched parenthesis Date: Thu, 13 May 99 06:59:06 +0000 foo=: 4 : 0 NB. comment line a=. 2 + y. b=. a * 5 x. + b ) The end parenthesis in the definition shows up in the colouring as unmatched. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 03:12:28 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Jforum: unmatched parenthesis on different lines Date: Thu, 13 May 99 07:03:21 +0000 Press the Run button (the leftmost button of the Debug toolbar) to step through each line of the definition. These parenthesis here above show up as unmatched because they are on different lines /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Thu May 13 05:00:26 1999 Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor Murray Eisenberg wrote: > I second the suggestions of others that the editor: > (1) automatically indent to the same level as the preceding line; > (2) allow configuration for variable tab widths. > I expect these features in programming editors. I, too, expect these features in a general purpose editor. However, for a code editor that is integrated into the interpreter, there is the opportunity for all that and more. For an example of something of this class, I would like to draw your attention to ALICE: The Personal Pascal from Looking Glass Software. This product includes a syntax-directed program editor. In this language it is impossible to create a program that has a syntax error! ALICE: The Personal Pascal was introduced in 1986. The syntax-directed program editor was inspired by the Cornell Program Synthesizer from Cornell University. The work of Mark Horton of University of California of Berkeley is germaine. Studies at Berkley indicate that students learning in this environment learn the syntax equally well. It is just easier. Lee Dickey -- Prof. Leroy J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1 ljdickey@math.UWaterloo.CA 1-519-888-4567, ext 5559 http://math.uwaterloo.ca/~ljdickey From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 05:11:52 1999 From: Lee Dickey Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 05:00:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor Murray Eisenberg wrote: > I second the suggestions of others that the editor: > (1) automatically indent to the same level as the preceding line; > (2) allow configuration for variable tab widths. > I expect these features in programming editors. I, too, expect these features in a general purpose editor. However, for a code editor that is integrated into the interpreter, there is the opportunity for all that and more. For an example of something of this class, I would like to draw your attention to ALICE: The Personal Pascal from Looking Glass Software. This product includes a syntax-directed program editor. In this language it is impossible to create a program that has a syntax error! ALICE: The Personal Pascal was introduced in 1986. The syntax-directed program editor was inspired by the Cornell Program Synthesizer from Cornell University. The work of Mark Horton of University of California of Berkeley is germaine. Studies at Berkley indicate that students learning in this environment learn the syntax equally well. It is just easier. Lee Dickey -- Prof. Leroy J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1 ljdickey@math.UWaterloo.CA 1-519-888-4567, ext 5559 http://math.uwaterloo.ca/~ljdickey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 07:47:25 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:48:37 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: html-publish & Save as html-publish Save As does not add the *.html extension to the script name. I would like that it defaults the html name as script name: myscript.ijs => myscript.html Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 08:25:05 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:12:07 -0400 From: Kirk B Iverson Subject: Re: Jforum: html-publish & Save as In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990513134555.00a5d280@pop.kolumbus.fi> At 13:48 1999-05-13 +0300, you wrote: >html-publish Save As does not add the *.html extension to the script name. >I would like that it defaults the html name as script name: myscript.ijs => >myscript.html >Anssi This will be fixed for the final release.. /K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 08:51:06 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:36:40 -0400 From: Kirk B Iverson Subject: Re: Jforum: J403a publish In-Reply-To: <001c01be9c8d$79b9bcd0$4915bac3@oti.com> At 17:38 1999-05-12 +0200, you wrote: >the script -> HTML publisher is very nice, but wouldn't it be better to do >the formating with style sheets? for a one off display with embedded styles, >but for publishing+keeping using a global style sheet file (ijs.css?) which >makes it easy to keep the format of all published source files synchronised? I wanted to keep the first version as simple as possible, and wasn't sure how I could map the more general formatting by verb definition onto style sheets. Note that, if you produce your own .css, I believe you can use the verb definitions of a scheme to produce html which references it. I'll try to come up with a simple example of this and post it to the forum. /K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 09:12:14 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:50:44 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Color global/local assignment References: <4.1.19990513091106.009eaae0@pop.kolumbus.fi> Anssi Seppala wrote: > It shows that the coloring on assignments work only by selecting global > assignment and then both global/local assignment are coloured. Setting > colourin on local assignment has no effect. This was tested with latest > beta created 12.may. Thanks for the bug report (coloring name to left of =: incorrectly colors =. and coloring name to left of =. has no effect). I'll get this fixed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 09:12:14 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:56:49 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Dblclick & wdview References: <199905121053_MC2-7578-D36E@compuserve.com> <4.1.19990513085006.00a4c260@pop.kolumbus.fi> Anssi Seppala wrote: > What about an idea to run wdiview on name that is doubleclicked? I put > cursor on a name in session, doubleclick (or shift enter) and J reads the > name and opens wdview if the noun or verb is defined. Doubleclick is already defined to select the word. If a rightclick displayed a menu (user customizable), you could have a menu command that was wdview of name at the caret. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 09:15:24 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:04:30 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: unmatched parenthesis References: <373a783c424e001@blik.skima.is> gosi@centrum.is wrote: > > foo=: 4 : 0 > NB. comment line > a=. 2 + y. > b=. a * 5 > x. + b > ) > > The end parenthesis in the definition shows up in the > colouring as unmatched. You can use configure|color to color the naked paren that closes definitions differently. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 09:21:27 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:08:31 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 scrolling Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id JAA11299 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >how recent your Intellimouse driver is.< I use Windows 98. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 10:38:29 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:24:03 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 13!:13 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id KAA06190 Why this? 13!:13'' |value error: A | 13!:13'' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 10:41:55 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:27:56 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor References: <199905121105_MC2-7568-C952@compuserve.com> <3739F7F6.383F@interlog.com> <373A3E2D.5374F79F@worldnet.att.net> <373A4399.C9854A48@math.umass.edu> Correction: instead of "Backspace/Tab" I meant "Shift/Tab" -- the Windows standard. Murray Eisenberg wrote: > > I'm not sure I see why auto-indent (upon Enter after an indented line) > would be a nuisance: > Why would you be indenting a line of code but in order to indent a > (large or small) multi-line block within, say, an if. ... do. ... end. > clause? At the end of the indented block, a single Backspace/Tab would > remove the indent from the next line. That's just one "extra" keyboard > step per indented block; without automatic indentation, it takes an > extra keystroke of Tab for EVERY line in the block. > -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 10:46:51 1999 X-Sent: 13 May 1999 14:36:41 GMT From: "Barry Savage" References: <37383EBD.7BA2@interlog.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 beta / Project Manager Problem Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:35:24 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" There seems to be a problem with the Project Manager in J403 beta. In the Build Options dialog box in previous versions (at least 4.02a) there are references to both "Target" file and "Build" file. These references are missing from the 4.03 beta version. Is this an error? If not, then how is the new version to be used? Please note that the corresponding Lab in 4.03 assumes no change from the prior version! Oh ... I forgot ... I mean 4.03 Windows (NT/9?) version. Barry Savage mailto:bv@bsavage.net http://www.bsavage.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 10:51:57 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:35:29 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor References: <199905130900.FAA27687@goedel.math.uwaterloo.ca> I was trying to be modest in my request. But yes, syntax-directed editors are MUCH easier to use. For a start: (1) Facility to actively match parentheses (not just differently color an unmatched one). [Yes, I do have need for parentheses in J -- especially when I dislike coercing a phrase into a parentheses-free version by, say, using Passive (~).] (2) Likewise, matching single quotes on strings. Ideally, matching double quotes on string-like expressions that are increasingly needed in arguments to wd and openGL commands. [Interesting developer challenge, perhaps, given use of " for rank?] (3) Catching missing do.'s, etc., in keyword clauses within explicit definitions. Yeah, the interpreter catches such things AFTER the definition is complete. But for real efficiency, having them caught before is much better. Lee Dickey wrote: > > Murray Eisenberg wrote: > > > I second the suggestions of others that the editor: > > (1) automatically indent to the same level as the preceding line; > > (2) allow configuration for variable tab widths. > > I expect these features in programming editors. > > I, too, expect these features in a general purpose editor. > > However, for a code editor that is integrated into the interpreter, > there is the opportunity for all that and more. > > For an example of something of this class, I would like to draw your > attention to ALICE: The Personal Pascal from Looking Glass Software. > This product includes a syntax-directed program editor. In this > language it is impossible to create a program that has a syntax error! > ALICE: The Personal Pascal was introduced in 1986. > > The syntax-directed program editor was inspired by the Cornell Program > Synthesizer from Cornell University. The work of Mark Horton of > University of California of Berkeley is germaine. > > Studies at Berkley indicate that students learning in this environment > learn the syntax equally well. It is just easier. > > Lee Dickey > -- > Prof. Leroy J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1 > ljdickey@math.UWaterloo.CA 1-519-888-4567, ext 5559 > http://math.uwaterloo.ca/~ljdickey > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 10:54:33 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:37:10 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor References: <199905130900.FAA27687@goedel.math.uwaterloo.ca> I don't like the new grey-banded left margin indicator, even though it would seem to provide nice symmetry with the other window edges' grey bands. I find it pulls my eye away from the code I'm trying to enter. -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:06:12 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:49:37 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" In-Reply-To: <373A3E2D.5374F79F@worldnet.att.net> Importance: Normal Oh yes, please make any autoindent optional. I hate it. Henry Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Brian Bambrough > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 22:51 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor > > > Eric Iverson wrote: > > > The first part of your request (auto indent after enter) is a bit > > trickier. I'd need to think about it before including it in a beta. I > > don't think it will make it into this release. It could in the next. I > > must admit I like that feature when coding in other languages. > > I, for one, would prefer not to have auto-indent. When I have > worked in various > dialects of BASIC I have found it to be a nuisance as often as it > has been a help. > > If the consensus is to have it implemented, perhaps you could > give us the ability to > turn it off in edit/configure. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:11:47 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <199905131025_MC2-759B-287A@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 13!:13 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:58:51 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Any clues as to what you were doing before this? Can you reproduce it? Are you using the latest J403a beta? ----- Original Message ----- From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 10:24 AM Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 13!:13 > Why this? > > 13!:13'' > |value error: A > | 13!:13'' > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:11:53 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:58:59 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" In-Reply-To: <373A4399.C9854A48@math.umass.edu> Importance: Normal I type in my indents by hand because it always reminds me of the scope of the assignments I have made, and keeps my constantly thinking about the nesting structure. I prevent a lot of bugs this way. With J it's not as important as with C, but life is too short to spend it changing habits that work. I agree that finding the matching parentheses and quotes would be great. Henry Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Murray Eisenberg > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 23:15 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor > > > I'm not sure I see why auto-indent (upon Enter after an indented line) > would be a nuisance: > Why would you be indenting a line of code but in order to indent a > (large or small) multi-line block within, say, an if. ... do. ... end. > clause? At the end of the indented block, a single Backspace/Tab would > remove the indent from the next line. That's just one "extra" keyboard > step per indented block; without automatic indentation, it takes an > extra keystroke of Tab for EVERY line in the block. > > Brian Bambrough wrote: > > > > Eric Iverson wrote: > > > > > The first part of your request (auto indent after enter) is a bit > > > trickier. I'd need to think about it before including it in a beta. I > > > don't think it will make it into this release. It could in the next. I > > > must admit I like that feature when coding in other languages. > > > > I, for one, would prefer not to have auto-indent. When I have > worked in various > > dialects of BASIC I have found it to be a nuisance as often as > it has been a help. > > > > If the consensus is to have it implemented, perhaps you could > give us the ability to > > turn it off in edit/configure. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:12:11 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <37383EBD.7BA2@interlog.com> <000001be9d4e$2a957380$9f77bfa8@palmtop> Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 beta / Project Manager Problem Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:50:02 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" They are in the new Project tab. Use the Add button to specify them. ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Savage Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 11:35 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 beta / Project Manager Problem > There seems to be a problem with the Project Manager in > J403 beta. In the Build Options dialog box in previous > versions (at least 4.02a) there are references to both > "Target" file and "Build" file. These references are missing > from the 4.03 beta version. > > Is this an error? If not, then how is the new version to be used? > Please note that the corresponding Lab in 4.03 assumes no > change from the prior version! > > Oh ... I forgot ... I mean 4.03 Windows (NT/9?) version. > > Barry Savage > mailto:bv@bsavage.net > http://www.bsavage.net > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:19:56 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <199905130900.FAA27687@goedel.math.uwaterloo.ca> <373AE396.90FFCB2C@math.umass.edu> Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:09:32 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Use Edit|Configure|Color to change the color of the margin. ----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Eisenberg Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 10:37 AM Subject: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor > I don't like the new grey-banded left margin indicator, even though it > would seem to provide nice symmetry with the other window edges' grey > bands. I find it pulls my eye away from the code I'm trying to enter. > > -- > Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu > Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) > Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) > Amherst, MA 01003-4515 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:22:17 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:05:59 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 13!:13 References: <199905131025_MC2-759B-287A@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > Why this? > > 13!:13'' > |value error: A > | 13!:13'' Please give more context in your report. If I start J and do this I don't get an error. Do you? If not, what are the simplest prerequisite steps? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:22:58 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:08:57 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor References: <199905130900.FAA27687@goedel.math.uwaterloo.ca> <373AE396.90FFCB2C@math.umass.edu> Murray Eisenberg wrote: > I don't like the new grey-banded left margin indicator, even though it > would seem to provide nice symmetry with the other window edges' grey > bands. I find it pulls my eye away from the code I'm trying to enter. Use configure/color to change the color of the left margin. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:25:41 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <199905121105_MC2-7568-C952@compuserve.com> Subject: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:14:23 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" On a related topic to auto-indenting, I use the pretty print facility in Project Manager all the time. It indents for me, so I can enter code any old how. It also checks that control words are matched up. Ideally, something like this would be done immediately in the code editor - but probably not for this release. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:37:48 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:23:32 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 debug Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id LAA27283 Tried to use the debugger. Got this: |value error: A |getstack[0] dbs'' |dbs[0] | dbs'' |getstack[0] | AA_jdebug_=:AA_jdebug_,< getstack'' |debug_jdebug_[9] | debug_jdebug_ coname$0 | OnlyOne=.1=;#each TheseRoutes=.{."1 Table=.Summarize y. |LinkChains[1] | Linked=: LinkChains Cuts |Reunite__A[2] | Reunite__A'' |MakeSetGUI_btnCut_button[0] | fn~'' |wdhandler_4_[8] | wdhandler_4_'' getstack [: (}.~ (0: i.~ 0: = [: > 1: {"1 ])) 13!:13 Which brings us back to my previous error with 13!:13 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 11:45:01 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:31:43 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 13!:13 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id LAA00479 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >Any clues as to what you were doing before this? Can you reproduce it? Are you using the latest J403a beta? < Just stopped in debug. Nothing specisl. Latest version (this morning's download). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 13:39:11 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:23:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: Martin Neitzel Subject: Re: Jforum: html-publish & Save as > html-publish Save As does not add the *.html extension to the script name. > I would like that it defaults the html name as script name: myscript.ijs => > myscript.html I hate such auto-extensions. Depending on the context, I'd be needing an .html, .htm, .HTM extension or even none at all. It always bugs me when I want to create a simple "README" file using notepad and I end up with a README.txt. The J session manager used to have some forced filename extensions in some earlier version and I'm glad they are gone. (It meant that you couldn't write a README file using J, either.) Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 13:41:14 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:36:12 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: Problem when building app with dd j4.03 beta: When there is dd referenced in Library scripts the PM fails building the application script. The error is error in: projectform_buildapp_button index error: getliblocs t { ~f i. y. Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 13:57:16 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:43:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Martin Neitzel Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor I used ALICE (the syntax directed Pascal system) for some time when I went through my "SDE is hip" phase in the 80ies. My overall experience was that navigating around/along the syntactic structures is often needlessly cumbersome. Brad Templeton's experience in turn was also a small surprise. His conclusion was: an SDE is the best way to sink work and money into a dead project right from the start. (At least I was suprised when I got these words from him, since I also considered ALICE to be a very well done product in its own respect.) Around that time I also had loads of nifty vi editor macros for creating C templates, and later I used emacs with its electric language modes. Two years ago I returned to comparatively simple editing with vi. My lesson is that for any electric convenience feature, there are equally many occasions were it becomes a pain somewhere to disable them temporarily or undo their unwanted effects. I know that personal preferences vary wildly in this respect. Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 14:06:32 1999 X-Lotus-FromDomain: JPMORGAN@SMTP From: "Jacob Moskowitz" Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:54:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Jforum: html-publish & Save as Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline >> It always bugs me when I want to create a simple "README" file using notepad and I end up with a README.txt. << Of course if you in fact Save As "README" (with the quotation symbols), it won't tack on the .TXT extension (at least not in NT Notepad). I agree it's an inconvenience. This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any transaction, unless specifically agreed otherwise. All market prices, data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and is subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan & Co. Incorporated, its subsidiaries and affiliates. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 14:11:51 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <4.1.19990513203023.00a67550@pop.kolumbus.fi> Subject: Re: Jforum: Problem when building app with dd Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:53:56 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks, fixed now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anssi Seppala Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 1:36 PM Subject: Jforum: Problem when building app with dd > j4.03 beta: > When there is dd referenced in Library scripts the PM fails building the > application script. The error is > error in: projectform_buildapp_button > index error: getliblocs > t { ~f i. y. > > > Anssi > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 14:39:01 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:43:52 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Re: Jforum: html-publish & Save as In-Reply-To: <199905131723.TAA18534@ohura.gaertner.de> The Save As dialog shows:Save as type: HTML (*.htm), but does not add the extension. That made me expect that the extension will be added. Anssi At 19:23 13.5.1999 +0200, you wrote: >> html-publish Save As does not add the *.html extension to the script name. >> I would like that it defaults the html name as script name: myscript.ijs => >> myscript.html > >I hate such auto-extensions. Depending on the context, I'd be needing >an .html, .htm, .HTM extension or even none at all. It always bugs me >when I want to create a simple "README" file using notepad and I end up >with a README.txt. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 14:48:54 1999 From: "Simon Garland" References: <3.0.5.32.19990513083640.008c8ca0@mail.interlog.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: J403a publish Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:34:48 +0200 charset="iso-8859-1" I was thinking of something simple like:
..
NB. this is a comment
avg
=.
..etc ..
I think this would plug into the existing implementation without any big changes. /simon ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirk B Iverson Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 2:36 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: J403a publish > At 17:38 1999-05-12 +0200, you wrote: > >the script -> HTML publisher is very nice, but wouldn't it be better to do > >the formating with style sheets? for a one off display with embedded styles, > >but for publishing+keeping using a global style sheet file (ijs.css?) which > >makes it easy to keep the format of all published source files synchronised? > > I wanted to keep the first version as simple as possible, and wasn't sure how > I could map the more general formatting by verb definition onto style sheets. > > Note that, if you produce your own .css, I believe you can use the verb > definitions of a scheme to produce html which references it. I'll try to > come up with a simple example of this and post it to the forum. > > /K > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 15:17:49 1999 From: "Simon Garland" References: <3.0.5.32.19990513083640.008c8ca0@mail.interlog.com> <005601be9d6f$61d03bc0$fa0da8c0@oti.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: J403a publish Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:04:46 +0200 charset="iso-8859-1" just remembered the html editor html-kit (at http://www.chami.com/free/html-kit/) which is pretty run of the mill except that it has the option to take an html file complete with and similar tages and to transform it into a file that does the same formatting by style sheets. it seems to have forgotten about and but otherwise its a simple way of converting. heres its output for sample.ijs: system\extras\config\colorsmp.ijs 
NB. Color Samples script
NB. Color Scheme <JSamples> has entries
NB. for each system color setting.

NB.*abc v example verb
def=: 3 : 0
'this is a text string'
'this is an open quote
'this is selected text'
abc=. 1 2.3 4j5       NB. numbers
mno=. + * ^ %         NB. verbs
rst=: ~ /. ]:         NB. adverbs
xyz=: " @. ^:         NB. conjunctions
a + ((mno - rst) % b  NB. unmatched paren
if. test do. +/ @: *: i. 10
else. <\ abc
end.
for_j. i do.
  try. %j catch. 'fail' end.
end.
)

allcontrolwords=: 0 : 0
catch. do. else. elseif. end. label.
break. case. continue. fcase. for. goto.
if. return. select. try. while. whilst.
)

boxed=: noun define
+-+-----------+----------+
|0|255 255 255|background|
+-+-----------+----------+
|1|0 0 0      |text      |
+-+-----------+----------+
)
----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Garland Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 8:34 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: J403a publish > I was thinking of something simple like: > >
> .. >
NB. this is a comment
>
avg
=.
..etc > .. >
> > I think this would plug into the existing implementation without any big > changes. > > /simon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirk B Iverson > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 2:36 PM > Subject: Re: Jforum: J403a publish > > > > At 17:38 1999-05-12 +0200, you wrote: > > >the script -> HTML publisher is very nice, but wouldn't it be better to > do > > >the formating with style sheets? for a one off display with embedded > styles, > > >but for publishing+keeping using a global style sheet file (ijs.css?) > which > > >makes it easy to keep the format of all published source files > synchronised? > > > > I wanted to keep the first version as simple as possible, and wasn't sure > how > > I could map the more general formatting by verb definition onto style > sheets. > > > > Note that, if you produce your own .css, I believe you can use the verb > > definitions of a scheme to produce html which references it. I'll try to > > come up with a simple example of this and post it to the forum. > > > > /K > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 15:52:16 1999 From: jquint@cdcna.cdcc.com Subject: Jforum: Grid Problem? Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:37:23 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" J 4.02 CE MIPS I tried to run the J 4.02 NT/95 lab grid example: corequire 'jwatch' d1=: ?1+i.7 15 w1=: 'd1' conew 'jwatch' I am having a problem when I try to edit the cells. It will take single digit new values but when trying more digits a "Data" window appears with the message "Error." Has anybody else experienced the same problem? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 16:11:42 1999 Delivered-To: fixup-forum@jsoftware.com@fixme Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:55:28 -0700 From: greg heil Subject: Re: Jforum: html-publish & Save as References: <85256770.00622503.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> Jacob Moskowitz wrote: > Of course if you in fact Save As "README" (with the quotation symbols), it won't tack on the .TXT extension (at least not in NT Notepad). Wow! that is a great tip! i have been frustrated by that particular bit of Fascism for a long time. Still the better way to design it is to put a default in - but let it be overridden easily. Eg if the default is .html, it should be easy to just delete the last "l" to get the three letter .htm. And not have the system come back with .htm.html! greg heil mailto:gheil@scn.org http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 16:43:55 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:37:22 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: jmf works great! Never believed doing this: simulation results all together in one mapped file (28MB). All selections and assignments run now fast and in place. The analysis is faster and easier than ever. Wow! Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 17:06:20 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: J 4.03 beta Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:51:12 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" In-Reply-To: <37383EBD.7BA2@interlog.com> Importance: Normal After the J files were copied, I was surprised to find my computer running 'Microsoft Outlook Active Setup' which seems to rummage through the Internet looking for goodies. If this is supposed to happen, I suggest that it be noted in the initial setup box. Henry Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Eric Iverson > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 10:29 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 beta > > > The J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). > > http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a.exe > > Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release > Notes). > > Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 17:49:25 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:34:36 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 beta References: <000501be9d82$563cff60$198cf7a5@seymourg> > After the J files were copied, I was surprised to find my > computer running 'Microsoft Outlook Active Setup' which > seems to rummage through the Internet looking for goodies. > > If this is supposed to happen, I suggest that it be noted > in the initial setup box. > Henry Rich The J install (unzip of files to J directory and setup) has nothing to do with MS Outlook Active Setup. I asume/hope something completely unrelated to J did this to you. Please check further and let me know what you find. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 21:44:08 1999 From: Subject: Jforum: Beta 4.03a Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 03:29:30 +0200 I don't have much time to test these days but I liked very much what I saw. One little thing, the OpenGL demo, once active, does not recognize a change in the color settings from the properties of my desktop. It actually displays errors all the time from that point on. (Found that by accident). I suppose it's one of those Microsoft limits or something... I am using NT 4.0 patch level 4 I am really impatient to have some more time to test... Regards/Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 21:54:39 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: J 4.03 beta Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:39:00 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <373B456C.3EC4@interlog.com> I think it's related to J... here's what I do: 1. Windows Explorer, go to 'Internet Temp', double-click 'j403a.exe' 2. WinZip Self-Extractor comes up, I click 'OK' 3. J 4.03a Unzip comes up. I set directory to e:\Jbeta, click 'Unzip' 4. files get copied, I get WinZip Self-Extractor message '687 file(s) unzipped successfully' - I click 'OK' 5. J 4.03a Unzip and WinZip Self-Extractor go away, and up pops 'Outlook 98 Active Setup'. This is easily repeatable. I run Microsoft Outlook as my normal mailer, and in fact it was running while I ran the extract. So, I just closed Outlook, repeated the extract, and it still happens. Any thing else you want me to try, let me know. Henry Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Eric Iverson > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 17:35 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 beta > > > > After the J files were copied, I was surprised to find my > > computer running 'Microsoft Outlook Active Setup' which > > seems to rummage through the Internet looking for goodies. > > > > If this is supposed to happen, I suggest that it be noted > > in the initial setup box. > > Henry Rich > > The J install (unzip of files to J directory and setup) has nothing to > do with MS Outlook Active Setup. I asume/hope something completely > unrelated to J did this to you. Please check further and let me know > what you find. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 22:19:35 1999 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:07:00 -0400 From: Kirk B Iverson Subject: Re: Jforum: J403a publish In-Reply-To: <005601be9d6f$61d03bc0$fa0da8c0@oti.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990513083640.008c8ca0@mail.interlog.com> At 20:34 1999-05-13 +0200, you wrote: >I was thinking of something simple like: > >
>.. >
NB. this is a comment
>
avg
=.
..etc >.. >
> >I think this would plug into the existing implementation without any big >changes. You can do much of this by editing the scheme and using verb definitions, eg: hit Edit and select "name" in the Elements listbox. Select "by verb definition" and supply the verb: DIV class 'jname' This verb wraps
...
around all J names. I find both IE and Netscape add line breaks at the DIV tags.. is this your experience too? /K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 13 23:55:33 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: Beta 4.03a Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:43:38 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" I could not reproduce this problem. Can you detail the steps you had taken? ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 9:29 PM Subject: Jforum: Beta 4.03a > I don't have much time to test these days but I liked very much what I > saw. > > One little thing, the OpenGL demo, once active, does not recognize a > change > in the color settings from the properties of my desktop. It actually > displays errors > all the time from that point on. (Found that by accident). I suppose > it's one of those > Microsoft limits or something... I am using NT 4.0 patch level 4 > > I am really impatient to have some more time to test... > > Regards/Paul > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 03:20:11 1999 From: Lars.Strand@nisk.no (Strand, Lars) Subject: SV: Jforum: Plot problem with J for Windows CE Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:09:43 +0200 Organization: NISK I had a similar problem. Try to increase the pen size. ---------- Fra: J. Patrick Harrington[SMTP:jph@astro.umd.edu] Svar til: forum@JSoftware.Com Sendt: 11. mai 1999 18:35 Til: forum@JSoftware.Com Kopi: jph@astro.umd.edu Emne: Jforum: Plot problem with J for Windows CE I have been running the Studio/Demos in J402a on my Velo 500 handheld, which is a Windows CE device with a MIPS processor. I find that in the "plot" demo, under "Styles", the the "Point" type only displays the axes and title, but no data is plotted. I've run this demo under Win NT, so I know what is missing. It is not a color problem (the Velo has has only a 16-level greyscale screen) as setting pd 'color black' doesn't help. The "Dot" and the various line types seem OK. Is this a known problem/bug? It is annoying, since the 'point' style is the one I would be most likely to make frequent use of. J. Patrick Harrington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 07:55:50 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: Beta 4.03a Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:44:39 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id HAA11332 I use Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 4 (french version) 1) open J4.03a 2) left click on Studio 3) left click on demos 4) left double click on OpenGL 5) go over the desktop area 6) right click and select properties 7) left click on the parameters tab 8) left click on the combo box button to select a diffferent number of colors 9) {left click on the test button} 10){wait for the test screen to dissappear} 11){left click on OK button for bitmap showed OK} 12)left click on OK button of parameter tab dialog 13)wait for your screen to take the new configuration 14)try getting any OpenGL selection, it should give you an error Regards/Paul >-----Message d'origine----- >De: Chris Burke [SMTP:cdburke@interlog.com] >Date: vendredi 14 mai 1999 05:44 >�: forum@jsoftware.com >Objet: Re: Jforum: Beta 4.03a > >I could not reproduce this problem. Can you detail the steps you had >taken? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 9:29 PM >Subject: Jforum: Beta 4.03a > > >> I don't have much time to test these days but I liked very much what >I >> saw. >> >> One little thing, the OpenGL demo, once active, does not recognize a >> change >> in the color settings from the properties of my desktop. It actually >> displays errors >> all the time from that point on. (Found that by accident). I suppose >> it's one of those >> Microsoft limits or something... I am using NT 4.0 patch level 4 >> >> I am really impatient to have some more time to test... >> >> Regards/Paul >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------ >> J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm >> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 08:53:46 1999 From: "Simon Garland" References: <3.0.5.32.19990513083640.008c8ca0@mail.interlog.com> <3.0.5.32.19990513220700.008be440@mail.interlog.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: J403a publish Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:43:08 +0200 charset="iso-8859-1" yes, you're right DIV does cause a linebreak, SPAN works ok though ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirk B Iverson Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 4:07 AM Subject: Re: Jforum: J403a publish > At 20:34 1999-05-13 +0200, you wrote: > >I was thinking of something simple like: > > > >
> >.. > >
NB. this is a comment
> >
avg
=.
..etc > >.. > >
> > > >I think this would plug into the existing implementation without any big > >changes. > > You can do much of this by editing the scheme and using verb definitions, > eg: hit Edit and select "name" in the Elements listbox. Select "by verb > definition" and supply the verb: DIV class 'jname' > > This verb wraps
...
around all J names. > > I find both IE and Netscape add line breaks at the DIV tags.. is this your > experience too? > > /K > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 12:34:05 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:35:30 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J4.03 build target file Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id KAA22268 How do I specify the target file in build options? Used to be in J4.02 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 12:52:52 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:42:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "J. Patrick Harrington" Subject: Jforum: Re: Plot problem with J for Windows CE I have tried pd 'pensize 5' or even larger and still *no trace* of the data appears. The definition of the demo is: dat=. (;(sin*cos),sin,:cos) steps _ 3 30 pd 'new' pd 'title Point' pd 'type point' pd dat pd 'show' If I omit pd 'type point', the data is drawn as lines, and then pd 'pensize n' changes the line thickness. Using pd 'type dot' plots dots. It looks as if there is something fundamentally wrong with the "point" type on my machine. What machine were you running on? Patrick Harrington >From: Lars.Strand@nisk.no (Strand, Lars) >To: "'forum@JSoftware.Com'" >Subject: SV: Jforum: Plot problem with J for Windows CE >Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:09:43 +0200 > >I had a similar problem. Try to increase the pen size. > >> I have been running the Studio/Demos in J402a on >>my Velo 500 handheld, which is a Windows CE device >>with a MIPS processor. I find that in the "plot" >>demo, under "Styles", the the "Point" type only >>displays the axes and title, but no data is plotted. >>I've run this demo under Win NT, so I know what is >>missing. It is not a color problem (the Velo has >>has only a 16-level greyscale screen) as setting >> pd 'color black' doesn't help. The "Dot" and the >>various line types seem OK. >> Is this a known problem/bug? It is annoying, since >>the 'point' style is the one I would be most likely to >>make frequent use of. >> >> J. Patrick Harrington >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 12:59:17 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <199905141035_MC2-75BC-EE13@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 build target file Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:50:12 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Use the Add button in the Project tab. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 10:35 AM Subject: Jforum: J4.03 build target file > How do I specify the target file in build options? Used to be in J4.02 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 13:22:03 1999 From: "Nichols, Peter" Subject: Jforum: jopen isn't defined Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:11:26 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Easy fix... jopen isn't defined in the jfiles script. I just installed the new release and I really like the new editor and coloring. Thanks guys. Pete -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 15:49:41 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:29:13 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id PAA25163 Look at this: V550=: 8 V542 =: 245 |limit error | V542 =:245 erase'V550' 1 V542 =: 245 asasa=:9 |limit error | asasa =:9 asasa=. 9 $nl'' 240 The locale can't accept more than 240 global variables! What is this? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 15:59:08 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:49:15 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error References: <199905141529_MC2-75BB-6FCE@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > The locale can't accept more than 240 global variables! What is this? This has always been the limit. The current symbol table architecture requires a fixed value and we wanted to keep it small so that the memory footprint of a locale for an object was small. It has always amazed me that users hardly ever hit the limit. Perhaps a consequence of an array language with locales. We have specs for a new symbol table architecture that will be even smaller and has better performance, yet easily grows to any size. Unfortunately we have not yet impletmented. It is on the serious wish list. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 16:11:54 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:58:48 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id PAA04153 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >This has always been the limit. < All right then, where can we read what the limits are. The OTHER limits we will find as we bump in to them? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 16:24:43 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:15:53 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <373C7E3B.46A5@interlog.com> I have lots more than 240 names in my _z_ and base locales. Are these locales special? Or are verbs in a separate table (most of the names are verbs)? Henry Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Eric Iverson > Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 15:49 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error > > > Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > > The locale can't accept more than 240 global variables! What is this? > > This has always been the limit... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 16:29:18 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:14:39 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error References: <199905141558_MC2-75C9-7CD0@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > All right then, where can we read what the limits are. The OTHER limits we > will find as we bump in to them? File status.txt in the help directory lists a few limits. But not this one. We'll try to be better at documenting this stuff. We'll also keep working on removing limits (and then removing the earlier documentation). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 17:15:09 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:39:13 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error References: <000901be9e46$913017a0$598df7a5@seymourg> Seymour Glass wrote: > > I have lots more than 240 names in my _z_ and base locales. Are these > locales special? Or are verbs in a separate table (most of the names > are verbs)? I should have made it clear that there are 2 limits: limit 2028 symbols in named locale limit 240 symbols in object (numbered) locale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 17:23:07 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:11:43 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id RAA04934 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >I should have made it clear that there are 2 limits:< Yes, you should. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 18:13:41 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:00:35 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: ODBC problem Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id SAA13202 Here is what I do: ============================================================== ddsrc'' +---------------------+------------------------------------+ |dBASE Files |Microsoft dBase Driver (*.dbf) | +---------------------+------------------------------------+ |Excel Files |Microsoft Excel Driver (*.xls) | +---------------------+------------------------------------+ |Text Files |Microsoft Text Driver (*.txt; *.csv)| +---------------------+------------------------------------+ |FoxPro Files |Microsoft FoxPro Driver (*.dbf) | +---------------------+------------------------------------+ |MS Access 97 Database|Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb) | +---------------------+------------------------------------+ |STRSM_Arrets |Microsoft dBase Driver (*.dbf) | +---------------------+------------------------------------+ |Test ODBC |Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb) | +---------------------+------------------------------------+ ddcon'Test ODBC' _1 ddcon'dsn=Test ODBC' 21369332 'select * from tblrawarchive' ddsel 21369332 21382528 Shit'' 663 ======================================================= This is the verb: Shit=: 3 : 0 boubou=: 0 n=: 0 while. -. _1-: boubou do. boubou=: ddfet 21382528 n=: n+1 end. ) ======================================================= Why does it stop after 663 records when I have 400 000? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 14 20:53:14 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 19:43:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Kip Murray Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (version 2) X-VMS-To: IN%"forum@jsoftware.com" X-VMS-Cc: MATH1IA Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I used Edit|Configure to change the default display to Linear (from Paren), and requested Save Configuration. When I next logged on to J, the display was back to Paren -- it appeared Save Configuration did not save my change. On the other hand, Save Configuration successfully saved my change of font. Kip Murray Math, University of Houston -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 02:29:16 1999 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:03:14 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: F-key action without CRLF? Is it possible to add an option to Configure/Tools/F-key so that the command is only written to session without CRLF. Then it would be an easy place to put frequently used commands like 'wdview ":'. Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 02:30:34 1999 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:46:30 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error In-Reply-To: <199905141712_MC2-75BD-8B1@compuserve.com> There are always a lot of limits in software applications. Some are platform dependent and some are because of the application design. The designer has to make a lot of compromises between limitations and performance. Yes, we need allways better documentation but more we need discussion if there is a relevant need to remove any limitation. If one limitation bothers only you can you change your algrorithm? Anssi At 17:11 14.5.1999 -0400, you wrote: >Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >>I should have made it clear that there are 2 limits:< > >Yes, you should. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 02:30:36 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:37:35 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (version 2) References: <01JB76GP05V68YRSUV@Jetson.UH.EDU> This reminds me of a minor problem: The Configuration menu does not have any "Restore defaults" button. I would like one -- if not on each tab of the configuration, at least for the entire configuration. Yes, I know, I SHOULD have made a backup copy of the distributed config.ijs, etc., but I didn't. (And someone new to J might find herself in the same situation.) Kip Murray wrote: > > I used Edit|Configure to change the default display -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 07:25:42 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <01JB76GP05V68YRSUV@Jetson.UH.EDU> <373CCFDF.3602F4EE@math.umass.edu> Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (version 2) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:14:22 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Done, thanks for the suggestion. ----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Eisenberg Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 9:37 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (version 2) > This reminds me of a minor problem: The Configuration menu does not have > any "Restore defaults" button. I would like one -- if not on each tab > of the configuration, at least for the entire configuration. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 08:46:38 1999 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:29:12 -0500 From: Don Guinn Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor References: <199905121105_MC2-7568-C952@compuserve.com> <006f01be9d53$4dcd5020$1e0114d1@Pcdburke> Please don't "help" (or force like Microsoft VB does) us format in the particular style of prettyprint. I happen to disagree with some of the indentions that prettyprint does, but make no difference in the execution. I don't have to use prettyprint if I don't want to, but if automatic formatting is in the editor and can't be turned off, then I'm stuck. I developed an indention convention from SPF. I really liked the ability to see structure where everything within a block is indented more than the beginning construct and the ending construct. This makes it really easy to match up beginnings and ends of blocks. Take the select. I like: select. ... case. ... case. ... end. But prettyprint puts the cases indented to the same level as the select and the end. Which is better? Who knows. I guess it doesn't matter very much as J has such small blocks, unlike PLI. But don't act like Microsoft and tell me how I'm supposed to indent. Enough griping. Now that this forum is making editor wish lists, how about the exclude line facility of SPF? It is very useful pulling together sections of code which ordinally can't be seen in the same window at the same time. Chris Burke wrote: > On a related topic to auto-indenting, I use the pretty print facility > in Project Manager all the time. It indents for me, so I can enter > code any old how. It also checks that control words are matched up. > Ideally, something like this would be done immediately in the code > editor - but probably not for this release. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 10:00:38 1999 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:52:22 -0400 From: Jake Subject: Re: Jforum: Font Suggestion References: <8525676F.004A3FF4.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> <004d01be9c88$5e9ebfe0$510114d1@Pcdburke> Yes, I see the source of my confusion now. Indeed, inside J, every font I specify displays fine with oem set. It's when I copy from the J window and paste into Microsoft Word (for note-keeping) that the text must be formatted ISIJ in order to see the boxes. This situation is actually quite tolerable. However, it would still be of interest to know whether there happen to be any other fonts which map the same line-drawing chars as well as ISIJ, but with more readble roman chars. Monotype.com has evidently been renamed Andale Mono, and that seems to map the same as the generic Windows fonts. Thanks Jake. Chris Burke wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jacob Moskowitz > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 9:38 AM > Subject: Jforum: Font Suggestion > > >... > > Standard Windows fonts such as Terminal or even Lucida are much more > > legible at very small sizes, but of course lack the linedrawing > chars. > >... > > On my machine (Win98), they do have linedrawing characters. In > Edit|Configure, you need to set the oem attribute. The "Lucida" I use > is "Lucida Console". > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm greg heil wrote: > > Hi Jake > > Old timers on this list are probably mostly using Norman > Drinkwaters suggestion, Monotype.com, as their font. > Monotype is available at: > http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fontpack > > Perhaps someone should negotiate to get this bundled > with the J distribution? However Chris said back in > October that it might be difficult to licence and > suggested a note in the documentation. A quick look, > using Find in Help, did not show a reference to it > though... > > greg heil > mailto:gheil@acm.org > http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 11:38:29 1999 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:50:38 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: J & Eudora strange interference In-Reply-To: <373D7C16.71ED4DE4@nassau.cv.net> References: <8525676F.004A3FF4.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> <004d01be9c88$5e9ebfe0$510114d1@Pcdburke> There was some discussion about J installation & Outlook interference. Here is my experiense that might help. I am using EudoraPro 4.1 and Win95. Eudora is loaded and minimized. Every 60 minutes it automatically checks my mail. While I am working with J with session maximised and PM in background Eudora starts its hourly operation, suddenly PM becomes visible without I do anything. The same happened also recently with wdview windows. So I confirm that J somehow interacts with applications that are related to e-mail or internet. Is it possible that there is a Windows system naming conflict or something? Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 11:44:03 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: j 4.03 code editor Date: Sat, 15 May 99 15:37:00 +0000 > Now that this forum is making editor wish lists, > how about the exclude line facility of SPF? Splitter windows would probably do what you want to do. I think they are easier accomplished and I would think them to be more useful as well. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 12:03:36 1999 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:56:04 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 limit error Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id LAA03236 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >If one limitation bothers only you can you change your algrorithm?< I will. Note, I didn't complain about the limits themselves. I complained of finding them out "in times of need". A working program suddenly stops and I have to get it working NOW. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 12:19:30 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <4.1.19990515085847.00a58140@pop.kolumbus.fi> Subject: Jforum: F-key action without CRLF? Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:13:28 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Right now, you can only define a function key with a statement that is executed. However, you can do what you want by defining a verb that writes to the session, and then put that verb on the function key. In your example, you use the following definition: foo=: wd bind 'smprompt *wdview ":' You could also read (smread), edit and write (smwrite) the session as a whole. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anssi Seppala Sent: Saturday, May 15, 1999 2:03 AM Subject: Jforum: F-key action without CRLF? > Is it possible to add an option to Configure/Tools/F-key so that the > command is only written to session without CRLF. Then it would be an easy > place to put frequently used commands like 'wdview ":'. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 13:34:00 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <199905111635.MAA24959@juno.astro.umd.edu> Subject: Re: Jforum: Plot problem with J for Windows CE Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:23:19 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Patrick The point plot depends on the size of the symbol font. It should not, and this will be changed in the next release. A quick fix is to define a bigger symbol font. Try adding to your program: pd 'symbolfont tahoma 100' or make a similar modification to script: system\classes\plot\plotdefs.ijs. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: J. Patrick Harrington Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 12:35 PM Subject: Jforum: Plot problem with J for Windows CE > I have been running the Studio/Demos in J402a on > my Velo 500 handheld, which is a Windows CE device > with a MIPS processor. I find that in the "plot" > demo, under "Styles", the the "Point" type only > displays the axes and title, but no data is plotted. > I've run this demo under Win NT, so I know what is > missing. It is not a color problem (the Velo has > has only a 16-level greyscale screen) as setting > pd 'color black' doesn't help. The "Dot" and the > various line types seem OK. > Is this a known problem/bug? It is annoying, since > the 'point' style is the one I would be most likely to > make frequent use of. > > J. Patrick Harrington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 13:44:34 1999 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:34:06 -0400 From: Jake Subject: Jforum: J Crashes ? References: <8525676F.004A3FF4.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> <004d01be9c88$5e9ebfe0$510114d1@Pcdburke> <373D7C16.71ED4DE4@nassau.cv.net> Does ISI want DrWatson logs of isolated J crashes in NT ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 14:55:46 1999 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:46:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: Martin Neitzel Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (version 2) > Yes, I know, I SHOULD have made a backup copy of the distributed > config.ijs ... You can check out individual files out of the original zip archive, even if comes as a self-extracting .exe Martin PS: This time, I was simply too lazy to overwrite the forced reply-to-address. My suggestion would be remove this setting for the jforum list, even though this will mean many doubled mails to individuals (both via To: personal-address and Cc: jforum). Very often I'm sending just a personal mail back and adjusting the receveiver is both an unnecessary nuisance and easily overlooked. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 18:46:18 1999 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 18:33:05 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J Crashes ? References: <8525676F.004A3FF4.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> <004d01be9c88$5e9ebfe0$510114d1@Pcdburke> <373D7C16.71ED4DE4@nassau.cv.net> <373DB00E.6BC7A44D@nassau.cv.net> Jake wrote: > Does ISI want DrWatson logs of isolated J crashes in NT ? In general we don't find one of these in isolation to be very useful. What we really like is a set of steps to reproduce the crash. If you are having quite a few crashes, then email any info that might be relevant along with a few of the crash logs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 21:05:06 1999 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:54:56 -0400 From: Jake Subject: Jforum: Animation ? References: <8525676F.004A3FF4.00@nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com> <004d01be9c88$5e9ebfe0$510114d1@Pcdburke> <373D7C16.71ED4DE4@nassau.cv.net> <373DB00E.6BC7A44D@nassau.cv.net> General questions about creating animated plots: (1) Is there a way to build up a series of J plots into an animation, either AVI, MPEG, or QuickTime ? It can be done in MathCAD, but can take days to generate less than a minute of video. (2) Odd (to me) observation: It seems quicker to calculate on the fly than to pre-compute massive arrays and then spit them out row-by-row. (3) Anyone care to point out better/faster techniques than I'm using now ? plot is no faster nor slower than pd, as far as I can determine. What about using OpenGL ? GnuPlot ? MovePd =: 3 : 0 'Tmax' =. y. t =. 0.0 while. ( t < Tmax ) do. t =. t + dt pd 'reset' pd 'type line' pd 'yrange _2 6' NB. vecn are vectors whose elements depend on t pd ( vect1 , vect2 , vect3 ) pd 'show' glpaint'' end. ) MovePd 10 Many Thanks - Jake Moskowitz jm@optonline.net (516) 889-4566 moskowitz_jacob@jpmorgan.com (212) 235-3787 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 15 23:32:08 1999 From: "David Vincent-Jones" Subject: Jforum: Fonts for J Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:14:30 -0700 I was pleased to get the information off the forum on the Monotype font and promptly downloaded it. It is now listed as "Andale Mono, formerly known as Monotype". A very nice font but no line draw characters... am I missing something? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 00:57:32 1999 Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 00:50:06 -0400 From: Kirk B Iverson Subject: Re: Jforum: Fonts for J In-Reply-To: <001f01be9f4a$45fa9940$400881ce@desktop> At 20:14 1999-05-15 -0700, you wrote: >I was pleased to get the information off the forum on the Monotype font and >promptly downloaded it. >It is now listed as "Andale Mono, formerly known as Monotype". >A very nice font but no line draw characters... am I missing something? Use the "OEM" rather than the "Ansi" or "Default" setting in Edit|Config. (eg, this gives you the font: "Andale Mono" 16 oem ) /K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 04:40:13 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: Animation ? Date: Sun, 16 May 99 08:30:16 +0000 > (2) Odd (to me) observation: It seems quicker to > calculate on the fly than to pre-compute massive > arrays and then spit them out row-by-row. I am not sure I understand you correctly. I think you mean that it is quicker to work with small number of data in verbs called over and over again rather than creating big matrixes. If your matrixes get really big so that the real memory of your machine can not handle it then the operating system will begin to use paging and swap virtual memory in and out of real memory. That might explain your observation. On the other hand if you would increase real memory to be big enough, I am pretty sure your observation would be the other way. Also depending on the methods you use of course. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 04:42:42 1999 Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:00:40 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: Grid lab F1 error (J4.03beta) Running lab Grid basic examples. On grid pressing F1 causes error error in watch_f1_key value error: actiondoc__grid wd 'mb "Watch help" *', actiondoc__grid,' ctrl+m - highlight expression' Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 06:41:13 1999 Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:30:22 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Re: Jforum: Animation ? In-Reply-To: <373e821a41a2001@blik.skima.is> My experience is that big arrays require memory allocation etc. that makes them sometimes slow in RAM too. It depends on the operation and data type. I have now some experience with j mapped files and there I can store big arrays (28MB) and make operations real fast. My solution is to preprocess data into a 4 dimensional big array sotred in a memory mapped file (jmf). The reporting then scans this array very fast using basic J expressions (...+/"2 jdata)(...+//."3 jdata)(1{23{2{jdata)(...#"3 jdata) etc.. Anssi At 08:30 16.5.1999 +0000, you wrote: >> (2) Odd (to me) observation: It seems quicker to >> calculate on the fly than to pre-compute massive >> arrays and then spit them out row-by-row. > >I am not sure I understand you correctly. >I think you mean that it is quicker to work with >small number of data in verbs called over and over >again rather than creating big matrixes. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 07:54:30 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: Beta 4.03a Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:47:37 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I understand now. After a change of the color settings, say from 16-bit to 32-bit color, OpenGL crashes. I dont think this is a J problem. In Win98, changing color settings gives me the following warning, which I guess applies here: "The settings you have chosen may cause some programs to operate improperly if you do not restart your computer now". ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 7:44 AM Subject: RE: Jforum: Beta 4.03a > I use Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 4 (french version) > > 1) open J4.03a > 2) left click on Studio > 3) left click on demos > 4) left double click on OpenGL > 5) go over the desktop area > 6) right click and select properties > 7) left click on the parameters tab > 8) left click on the combo box button to select a diffferent number of > colors > 9) {left click on the test button} > 10){wait for the test screen to dissappear} > 11){left click on OK button for bitmap showed OK} > 12)left click on OK button of parameter tab dialog > 13)wait for your screen to take the new configuration > 14)try getting any OpenGL selection, it should give you an error > > Regards/Paul > > >-----Message d'origine----- > >De: Chris Burke [SMTP:cdburke@interlog.com] > >Date: vendredi 14 mai 1999 05:44 > >�: forum@jsoftware.com > >Objet: Re: Jforum: Beta 4.03a > > > >I could not reproduce this problem. Can you detail the steps you had > >taken? > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 9:29 PM > >Subject: Jforum: Beta 4.03a > > > > > >> I don't have much time to test these days but I liked very much what > >I > >> saw. > >> > >> One little thing, the OpenGL demo, once active, does not recognize a > >> change > >> in the color settings from the properties of my desktop. It actually > >> displays errors > >> all the time from that point on. (Found that by accident). I suppose > >> it's one of those > >> Microsoft limits or something... I am using NT 4.0 patch level 4 > >> > >> I am really impatient to have some more time to test... > >> > >> Regards/Paul > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- - > >------------ > >> J Forum: for information about this list, see > >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > >> > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > >--- > >J Forum: for information about this list, see > >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 09:39:23 1999 Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:21:26 -0400 From: William Kindree Organization: Interlog Internet Services Subject: Jforum: J403beta: Clearall missing from stdlib References: <01BE162A.B15D45B0@n211.skima.is> <3658FDF3.78136263@balcab.ch> <365C2D1D.D8349FB2@hal-pc.org> <365CF4FC.8CB022C7@balcab.ch> TWIMC, In stdlib, I use the clearall verb to clear out all the remnants of a previous debug run. There is still a comment in this library, but no "clearall" verb. What have you replaced it with? Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 15:46:43 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <50C877359DC3D21192DE0008C7B1CC530E14BB@winntsvr.cdcna.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: Grid Problem? Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:39:27 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" This is a bug - the grid edit is reading characters in unicode, instead of ascii. Here is a workaround: 1. Remove ascii 0 from the input by modifying seteditdata in system\classes\grid\jwgrid.ijs to change data=. ". data into data=. ". data -. {.a. 2. On input, enter as many trailing blanks as numbers, e.g. for "123" enter "123 ". ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 3:37 PM Subject: Jforum: Grid Problem? > J 4.02 CE MIPS > > I tried to run the J 4.02 NT/95 lab grid example: > > corequire 'jwatch' > d1=: ?1+i.7 15 > w1=: 'd1' conew 'jwatch' > > I am having a problem when I try to edit the cells. It will take single > digit new values but when trying more digits a "Data" window appears with > the message "Error." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 16:06:05 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <01BE162A.B15D45B0@n211.skima.is> <3658FDF3.78136263@balcab.ch> <365C2D1D.D8349FB2@hal-pc.org> <365CF4FC.8CB022C7@balcab.ch> <373EC655.B887B6E0@interlog.com> Subject: Jforum: J403beta: Clearall missing from stdlib Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:59:08 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" clearall was in J3 stdlib. I'm not sure why it was taken out for J401. clearall was in effect: clear each nl 6 After this, you probably need to read in the standard profile: 0!:0 <'system\extras\config\profile.ijs' ----- Original Message ----- From: William Kindree Sent: Sunday, May 16, 1999 9:21 AM Subject: Jforum: J403beta: Clearall missing from stdlib > TWIMC, > > In stdlib, I use the clearall verb to clear out all the remnants of a previous debug > run. > > There is still a comment in this library, but no "clearall" verb. > > What have you replaced it with? > > Bill > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 17:21:02 1999 From: arneson@pkb.mega.net.id (arneson) Subject: Jforum: Error in help file: Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 04:14:23 +0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id RAA16683 Error in help file: Nub Sieve ~: _ 0 0 Not Equal ~:y is the boolean list b such that b#y is the nub of y. For example: ~: 'Mississippi'1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 x~:y is 1 if x is tolerantly unequal to y. See Equal (=). The fit conjunction may be used to specify tolerance, as in ~:!.t . The result of nub-sieve can be used to select the nub as follows: y=: 8 1 8 2 8 1 7 2 ~: y <>> 8 1 2 7 ~: y 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 (~: y) # y 8 1 2 7 y #~ ~: y 8 1 2 7 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 16 22:00:40 1999 Date: 16 May 99 18:46:00 -0700 Subject: Jforum: J403beta on a G3 Mac From: "Piet de Jong" X-Fontfamily: Geneva X-Fontsize: 12 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With all the excitement of the J403 release on Windows, here is something for Mac fans, just so that they don't feel left out. I have G3 Mac with a 2 year old version of RealPC installed on it. This is a pretty basic and cheap Dos emulator. Inside RealPC I installed Windows95. Kept the installation to a minimum, no internet etc. Then I downloaded J403beta using my Mac browser and dragged it to the appropriate directory in Windows95. Unzipped, installed and started things. J403beta demanded an updated version of one of the *.dll files (apparently my Win95 was old). Located and downloaded this from the web. Then J403beta demanded another updated *.dll file. Got this one too. Then J403beta fired up without a hitch. Installed LAPACK without any bother and everything appears to run smooth. One glitch -- File|Open doesn't work. Windows reports an error and closes down the program. However pulling in a previously worked on file listed at the bottom of the File menu works fine. Graphics etc etc appears to work just fine. LAPACK works great. The interface seems slightly sluggish compared to running J3 on a Mac. But here is the interesting part. J403beta on Win95 on RealPC on MacOS8.5 on a G3 runs about 5x FASTER!!! then J3x on MacOS8.5 on G3 I find this hard to believe. Maybe it has something do with the number of programs running, who has the priority etc. For example 10 (6!:2) '%.?100 100$300' 1.96 NB. J403beta on Win95 on RealPC on Mac8.5 on G3 9.5 NB. J3x for Mac on G3 10 t'128!:0 ?100 100$300' 1.15 NB. J403beta on Win95 on RealPC on Mac85. on G3 5.1 NB. J3x for Mac on G3 0.55 NB. J403beta .. on G3 with LAPACK qr transform Some other cursory timings indicated that J3 on G3 was faster by a factor of 2. So relative performance appears to vary with a number of factors. The bottom line is that it appears that running J403 on a Windows emulator on a Mac is quite respectible. Okay, maybe no weather simulations etc, but unless I hear otherwise, as a commited Mac and J person, this will be my upgrade path. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 17 00:59:05 1999 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 00:41:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "J. Patrick Harrington" Subject: Jforum: Re: Plot problem with J for Windows CE Thanks Chris, I've found that changing the SYMBOLFONT variable in SYSTEM\CLASSES\PLOT\PLOTDEFS.IJS to SYMBOLFONT=: 'tahoma 80' solves the problem and gives a reasonable symbol size. - Patrick >From: "Chris Burke" >To: >Subject: Re: Jforum: Plot problem with J for Windows CE >Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:23:19 -0400 > >Patrick > >The point plot depends on the size of the symbol font. It should not, >and this will be changed in the next release. > >A quick fix is to define a bigger symbol font. Try adding to your >program: > > pd 'symbolfont tahoma 100' > >or make a similar modification to script: >system\classes\plot\plotdefs.ijs. > >Chris > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 17 02:44:11 1999 From: "Roger Hui" References: <01BEA01B.C9C14400@pkb-117.mega.net.id> Subject: Jforum: Re: Error in help file: Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:21:15 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" "arneson" wrotes on Sunday, May 16: > Nub Sieve ~: _ 0 0 Not Equal > y=: 8 1 8 2 8 1 7 2 > ~: y <>> > 8 1 2 7 This is indeed an error. Thanks for pointing it out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 17 05:18:58 1999 From: Subject: Jforum: ODBC with Oracle v8 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:46:54 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id EAA08357 I am trying to connect to an Oracle v8 database and can't seem to get the connection parameters right. ddecon'dsn=oracle8;uid=mine;pwd=secret' always gives me the following: IM002 0 [Microsoft][Gestionnaire de pilotes ODBC] Source de donn�es non trouv�e et nom de pilote non sp�cifi� On the other hand, ddecon'dsn=oracle8' gives me the following: 28000 1017 [Oracle][ODBC][Ora]ORA-01017: nom d'utilisateur/mot de passe invalide; connexion refus�e Which was to be expected. We also use that database with APL-Link and they seem to go through a "console" which is the first parameter (before the dsn) that we pass to their function. So my question is: What special wizardry in the syntax (or missing console) should I do in order to at least connect to the "thing" P.S.: Sorry for the french error messages but NT 4 SP 4 is in french here. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 17 05:59:42 1999 From: Subject: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:44:07 +0200 I noticed a verb, ic=:3!:4 It's a convertion not listed in the foreign conversion conjonctions. What is the magic behind it ? Regards/Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 17 07:11:53 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 06:59:26 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" See Help|Foreign Conjunction|3 Conversions|...continued ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 5:44 AM Subject: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... > I noticed a verb, ic=:3!:4 > It's a convertion not listed in the foreign conversion conjonctions. > What is the magic behind it ? > > Regards/Paul > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 17 07:39:56 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:25:50 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id HAA16716 continued has no link, I did find it under a search for conversions giving conversion 2. But I beleive there is a missing link in the help facility then... >-----Message d'origine----- >De: Chris Burke [SMTP:cdburke@interlog.com] >Date: lundi 17 mai 1999 12:59 >�: forum@jsoftware.com >Objet: Re: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... > >See Help|Foreign Conjunction|3 Conversions|...continued > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 5:44 AM >Subject: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... > > >> I noticed a verb, ic=:3!:4 >> It's a convertion not listed in the foreign conversion conjonctions. >> What is the magic behind it ? >> >> Regards/Paul >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------ >> J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm >> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 17 08:34:47 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:10:21 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You go to Help|Foreign Conjunction|3 Conversions, and press the >> button to go the next page, a continuation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 7:25 AM Subject: RE: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... > continued has no link, I did find it under a search for conversions > giving > conversion 2. But I beleive there is a missing link in the help facility > then... > > >-----Message d'origine----- > >De: Chris Burke [SMTP:cdburke@interlog.com] > >Date: lundi 17 mai 1999 12:59 > >�: forum@jsoftware.com > >Objet: Re: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... > > > >See Help|Foreign Conjunction|3 Conversions|...continued > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: > >Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 5:44 AM > >Subject: Jforum: Browsinf through odbc.ijs... > > > > > >> I noticed a verb, ic=:3!:4 > >> It's a convertion not listed in the foreign conversion conjonctions. > >> What is the magic behind it ? > >> > >> Regards/Paul > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- - > >------------ > >> J Forum: for information about this list, see > >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > >> > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > >--- > >J Forum: for information about this list, see > >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 17 10:04:04 1999 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 06:49:38 -0700 From: Joey K Tuttle Subject: Re: Jforum: J403beta on a G3 Mac Date: 16 May 99 18:46:00 -0700 From: "Piet de Jong" J403beta on Win95 on RealPC on MacOS8.5 on a G3 runs about 5x FASTER!!! then J3x on MacOS8.5 on G3 I find this hard to believe. Maybe it has something do with the number of programs running, who has the priority etc. For example 10 (6!:2) '%.?100 100$300' 1.96 NB. J403beta on Win95 on RealPC on Mac8.5 on G3 9.5 NB. J3x for Mac on G3 I find it hard to believe as well... I was always (very) disappointed with J performance on my Mac, but when I installed 4.02A I sent a note (1999 Feb 18) apologizing for all my grousing in the past and included the following (also, I should note that the OS was 8.5): ----- I could use my Mac in lieu of the Sun SPARC station that I have used in the past (although it still has it's attractions) to do large processes. The Mac is satisfyingly fast (this is a radical improvement now that J is compiled to be Power PC native). Here are some benchmarks from various platforms: 266 MHz Mac G3 timex =. 6!:2 5 timex '%. ?100 100 $1000' 0.7568 333 MHz Pentium - Linux 5 timex '%. ?100 100 $ 1000' 0.247367 UltraSPARC 2 ... 5 timex '%. ?100 100 $ 1000' 1.06708 The SPARC has a great I/O system - but the others are OK too. The SPARC is about 5 years old, so is a bit "long in the tooth" for raw computing power... Still, it compares (more than) favorably with the last time I used a large IBM mainframe - amazing! ---- Your note caught my eye because you used "my benchmark" as a test - actually, back in the old days of small/slow IBM 3090s (!!) I used a 50 50 matrix. To confess even more, this goes back to the even (much) smaller/slower IBM/360 model 50 where I first had a "personal" APL system (circa 1971) 100 by 100 was too much to ask of those machines. When J came along, I forwarded some timings to Roger Hui with an apology for using something so narrow as a matrix inverse and was surprised by his response that %.? was a rather good general benchmark for computations in J since the algorithm for %. was essentially "written in J" and therefore used almost every part of the system (unlike the 360 code where it was a special module written in 360 assembler language...) So, I think you have some other factors involved in your timings. -- joey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 17 10:18:59 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: RE: Jforum: Font Suggestion Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:58:59 +0300 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BEA086.8ED6DBA0" In-Reply-To: <373D7C16.71ED4DE4@nassau.cv.net> Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BEA086.8ED6DBA0 charset="iso-8859-1" In fact, MS Word supports box drawing chars for Unicode fonts, e.g. Courier New has such chars, which look quite tolerable at small screen sizes. However the procedure to make Word convert to proper encoding when pasting or importing is not trivial. I used to do it with modifying the RTF output of WordPad and then open in Word. Earlier in the thread Windows Terminal font was mentioned. Indeed, it has box drawing chars as any other OEM font should (unlike e.g. Fixesys). However, very few programs are able to display it at a size, in which it appears in MS-DOS Command Prompt box. Under Win31 it was a nice alternative. The attached picture shows its ability to draw symbols very briskly for good readability. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Jake > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 1999 16:52 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Re: Jforum: Font Suggestion > > > Yes, I see the source of my confusion now. > > Indeed, inside J, every font I specify displays fine with oem set. > > It's when I copy from the J window and paste into Microsoft Word > (for note-keeping) that the text must be formatted ISIJ in order to > see the boxes. > > This situation is actually quite tolerable. However, it would still > be of interest to know whether there happen to be any other fonts > which map the same line-drawing chars as well as ISIJ, but with > more readble roman chars. > > Monotype.com has evidently been renamed Andale Mono, and that seems > to map the same as the generic Windows fonts. > > Thanks > Jake. > > Chris Burke wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jacob Moskowitz > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 9:38 AM > > Subject: Jforum: Font Suggestion > > > > >... > > > Standard Windows fonts such as Terminal or even Lucida are much more > > > legible at very small sizes, but of course lack the linedrawing > > chars. > > >... > > > > On my machine (Win98), they do have linedrawing characters. In > > Edit|Configure, you need to set the oem attribute. The "Lucida" I use > > is "Lucida Console". > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > > > > greg heil wrote: > > > > Hi > Jake > > > > Old timers on this list are probably mostly using Norman > > Drinkwaters suggestion, Monotype.com, as their font. > > Monotype is available at: > > http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fontpack > > > > Perhaps someone should negotiate to get this bundled > > with the J distribution? However Chris said back in > > October that it might be difficult to licence and > > suggested a note in the documentation. A quick look, > > using Find in Help, did not show a reference to it > > though... > > > > greg heil > > mailto:gheil@acm.org > > http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BEA086.8ED6DBA0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="TermFont.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TermFont.gif" R0lGODdhAgGeAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAAAAAAALAAAAAACAZ4AQAL/jI+py+0Po5y02ouz3rz7D4bi SGIA8JyHmqLI6QYsy8xxief6zvf+Dwy+bg5aS2IUKpdMDe15SyYNUCpx2sxqt0MksYFdhLnk8m+c QHcjarP7HarKrt95Oma7w/f8UdvqFdg3SFhoeIiYqLjImPFHAVO34vKo9iiGEln0p4J2CchGJ9lI Wmp6iprq+KVplTnqCrvJGZVpB9Y69zkEletLCdzamXcbaQkD8Ys8uazq/AwdLb2E1WbMi3e9WSPL DSqH2aybnYv5bbs7rb7O3u7+bq5ACfg62z0pCK+/z59VeX8rGcB+BAN2CogwISg9awo6xJXvSKiH FOMJjLitosaFiQ05DmOoEN9Gjf8wQhyJMqXKlSxbuhSR7uUFYt4s7Copzpynchkv8pIJNKhQeFKA icSY8yQzkAZHEaOpS2Keek+N0st2deFHnyernvs5NKzYsVuqdfPaNGTHtUkZVtn5NS3cYljJ2r2L N6/evRyMTK3bs+bcmHzP3Dto7fBAtYUbO34MeULJiZQj/zOazFWi5UXg/NKxCJXx5kFvERa1yPHo aESYNbtebah14NmwCclW+ro2aYC3a+ouJOf0nc+p1/7mYxakMc+oRR8v07s57ud7osvjvZi69u3c u3v/Dj68+ERON4C77tzOsbboKysijCuxyemBeHaxfx+7e9rj+8DvD2CAAg64w1Yf/EdLQwlWZx4k 2c2HlFVRybeKe4g5ZVVoEcqgXoYSTvGXVouttwxa/zmx3INhnUhgiy6+CONM9ajmgX7C2SSOgR1g 15mKzyQnlYc00ldcKMIA1h5a6Y0z1ZIBshhjlFJOSWWVVl75UnDBLGiPQFDCKNxHM5onYW5YSufN mESieS+dj1TKp6Zva855JpvMkNjLnSTWyWeffv7JRIqCDkpoodoA2pd++9GJqGSKZsZfo/8VWMdU pJI6ig1xL6Bm35eAlsZcLKCV6eSlvl3IVh0gsuKmqaDWUqlHknj6p2c59XIrObmaWuGiclrKq5l2 xvprsBC2BymjxoZjaLPOCrrspI8Ki2y0vg5rXLHWKlsktkNuK2enqmq6HLHgVktjUTeOQauf6iIb Gq6snptsQkB+eyO94Sa1aqiimqtvt+hyW6q1lGbr7bkHf5swuM8+DHG7AU9MccUWX4xxxhpvzHHH Vh7KjWLpXbIwcq0mieEKmGq7MmM6MstewU6+6x/Iw+EXC84MD9wwejpfA8vLbZ78I9FrzFUvsCyj bE/MCANcqdMOISmPIzhKjQxcFF7Ls8dVXn8Ndthij012YVLLiCISNytm9CkSn02wGeWgmnRZrUqM tozN0DTMWXeLjE+cRwsp7VdUEX6e4R+OKIuJhOctUuLUct0R3fEoiWPgHcYleYhptVys44Em5Iqr kXsnpoyeuja+FU9n/xJ5jgbKfvqYr9t8c+xL5eku3GX/Dnzwwg9P/HsgUmOrm/0qoS7enInS9s7m xqTklws26TxrrvvNOdUhr5o33ynTJSJl2EdPyr1dPR4d9eyPXz3g509Nu9Pi0xwf9LyvDxb//y6V EXkVb4AELODYCgAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BEA086.8ED6DBA0-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 04:07:06 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:06:00 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: Extra characters in session (J4.03) In-Reply-To: <199905171349.GAA24636@locus.qued.com> There are some problems in J session manager. I use a lot ctrl-R to run functions line by line. Now I have experienced several times with J4.03 that there are extra characters. Here is an example from my current session: The line in ijs-windows is: selrows=. ((1 col weightrows) e. i{sellers)#weightrows But pressing ctrl-R I get to ijx-window |syntax error | selrows=.((1 col weightrows)e.i{sellers) #weightrows== Where comes the == to the end of the line? The same error exist in several lines with different extra characters. It does not help to close and open the ijs-window. Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 04:41:59 1999 From: Subject: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:23:59 +0200 I showed J4.03a to total J neophytes, there first impression is that it looks and feel like a shareware product and, therefore, does not look professional. Of course, being a 25 years old dedicated to APL/J/K, I do see the power behind the screens but they don't. So I just wanted to post their first impressions so you can see how easy/uneasy it is to sustain a discussion of more then a few seconds with them. I guess a little more of what it does is needed but they seem psychologically tied to the shareware look and feel. One of them is our Oracle local expert. Regards/Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 05:24:33 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:01:25 +0200 From: Ben Gorte Organization: ITC Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes References: > they seem psychologically tied to the shareware look > and feel. One of them is our Oracle local expert. Look at the pricing of Oracle vs. J, and you can predict such a reaction. Ben -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 05:44:39 1999 From: Ajith Prasad Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:09:41 +0800 charset="ISO-8859-1" I wonder how they would react to K which even in its single-user desktop version would cost $5,000 and has no integrated development environment unlike J. -----Original Message----- From: paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr [mailto:paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 4:24 PM To: forum@jsoftware.com Subject: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes I showed J4.03a to total J neophytes, there first impression is that it looks and feel like a shareware product and, therefore, does not look professional. Of course, being a 25 years old dedicated to APL/J/K, I do see the power behind the screens but they don't. So I just wanted to post their first impressions so you can see how easy/uneasy it is to sustain a discussion of more then a few seconds with them. I guess a little more of what it does is needed but they seem psychologically tied to the shareware look and feel. One of them is our Oracle local expert. Regards/Paul ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 06:06:18 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:00:22 +0200 From: Volker Glave Organization: Adtranz Signal Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes References: <37412C65.C1C7E499@itc.nl> Ben Gorte wrote: > > > they seem psychologically tied to the shareware look > > and feel. One of them is our Oracle local expert. > > Look at the pricing of Oracle vs. J, and you can > predict such a reaction. But the Oracle Tool SQL*Plus does not even look and feel like shareware. It looks and feels like a novice programmers first experiment. (There's power behind the screens nonetheless, too.) Volker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 07:22:04 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:57:54 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id GAA08535 >-----Message d'origine----- >De: Volker Glave [SMTP:gla@adtranzsig.de] >Date: mardi 18 mai 1999 12:00 >�: forum@jsoftware.com >Objet: Re: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > >Ben Gorte wrote: >> >> > they seem psychologically tied to the shareware look >> > and feel. One of them is our Oracle local expert. >> >> Look at the pricing of Oracle vs. J, and you can >> predict such a reaction. > >But the Oracle Tool SQL*Plus does not even look and feel >like shareware. It looks and feels like a novice programmers >first experiment. (There's power behind the screens >nonetheless, too.) > >Volker > >[ Paul GAUTHIER] >I believe they are a bit spoiled and would like a Delphi style >that they could talk too or something. > >BTW I am having fun with this post because I am all for J >and they did not expect me to forward their comments to >this forum... giggling.../Paul >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 08:04:13 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:43:34 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Jforum: PM does not allow *.ijr target (4.03a) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990518095142.00ba3a60@pop.kolumbus.fi> References: <199905171349.GAA24636@locus.qued.com> Trying to add Target file as encrypted (*.ijr) is not possible because the dialog requires only (*.ijs) extension. Anssi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 08:31:38 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:20:41 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Extra characters in session (J4.03) References: <4.1.19990518095142.00ba3a60@pop.kolumbus.fi> Anssi Seppala wrote: > There are some problems in J session manager. I use a lot ctrl-R to run > functions line by line. Now I have experienced several times with J4.03 > that there are extra characters. Here is an example from my current session: Other people have reported this. I have been unable to reproduce it and have stared unsuccessfully at the code. Can anyone reproduce this? If you can, please send me the script and steps necessary to cause the problem. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 11:52:03 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:04:22 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 editor right click menu Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id LAA02898 Are we going to get the right click menu as it was before? Right click: copy , cut, paste. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 17:11:00 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:45:57 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J4.03 PM Test button Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id NAA23425 What is the test button for in project manager? How does it work? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 17:47:13 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:05:17 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J403beta on a G3 Mac References: Piet de Jong wrote: > > With all the excitement of the J403 release on Windows, here is > something for Mac fans, just so that they don't feel left out. The timings sound wrong. Is it possible you are running the 68000 version of J instead of the PPC version? That would explain your numbers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 18:04:01 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:29:30 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Extra characters in session (J4.03) References: <4.1.19990518095142.00ba3a60@pop.kolumbus.fi> Anssi Seppala wrote: > > There are some problems in J session manager. I use a lot ctrl-R to run > functions line by line. Now I have experienced several times with J4.03 > that there are extra characters. Here is an example from my current session: I've found and fixed this problem. Thanks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 18:06:38 1999 From: "Randy MacDonald" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:05:33 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" From: > I showed J4.03a to total J neophytes, there first impression is that it > looks and feel like a shareware product and, therefore, does not look > professional. I don't think I could say that a product looked like a shareware product or not. How did they make this conclusion? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 18:18:51 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:48:06 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes References: Can you be more specific as to what made them come away with this impression? Did you, for example: - run one of the supplied demos (e.g., graphics) - quickly build a form - with a bit of typing (or, from a previously programmed form) calculate statistics from a data set in a file? My experience is that that sort of thing will grab the neophytes -- provided it doesn't intimidate them! paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr wrote: > > I showed J4.03a to total J neophytes, there first impression is that it > looks and feel like a shareware product and, therefore, does not look > professional. -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 18:20:38 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:03:18 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 problem in try. catch. Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id LAA03709 Look at this session: =============================== dbss'Try *' dbr 1 Try'' |stop: Try | 1 |Try[0] dbs'' |stop: dbs | dbs'' 13!:18'' |stop | 1 |Try[0] | Try'' dbrun'' |stop: dbrun | dbrun'' 13!:18'' |stop | 1 |Try[0] | Try'' ================================= Here is Try: Try=: 3 : 0 try. 1 catch. 4 end. 7 ) ================================== Something is obviously wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 18:22:53 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:32:27 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 editor right click menu References: <199905181005_MC2-7626-7E48@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > Are we going to get the right click menu as it was before? Right click: > copy , cut, paste. In the next beta version the right mouse click brings up a popup menu that is the same as the main window edit menu. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 18:25:59 1999 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:23:24 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Re: Jforum: Extra characters in session (J4.03) In-Reply-To: <37415B19.416B@interlog.com> References: <4.1.19990518095142.00ba3a60@pop.kolumbus.fi> My experience is related to a longer working session, PM, Form editor. Also this is related to debugging code (however I do not use the debug facility, just go through code step by step with ctr-R). Anssi At 08:20 18.5.1999 -0400, you wrote: >Anssi Seppala wrote: >> There are some problems in J session manager. I use a lot ctrl-R to run >> functions line by line. Now I have experienced several times with J4.03 >> that there are extra characters. Here is an example from my current session: > >Other people have reported this. I have been unable to reproduce it and >have stared unsuccessfully at the code. Can anyone reproduce this? If >you can, please send me the script and steps necessary to cause the >problem. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Tue May 18 18:44:57 1999 Subject: RE: Jforum: Best J Machine - Linux Did you see the recent posting about programming (and installing Linux?) From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 21:02:52 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 02:49:43 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id UAA03549 Hello Murray ! Yes, I did all of those, I ran the OpenGL demo then quickly built a form then showed them a few statictics in the J session window. My beleif is that since there was a lot of negative vibs from earlier APLers here, a reputation and negativity before you even say anything is persisting. On the bright side however, I just increased the performance of a section of their code (APL2000 based) by a factor of 20:1 also using less space in a ratio of 6:1 within a few days and frankly it annoyed them because now I am moving from a "he is another APLer !" to "how much faster did he make it run ?". I will eventually move towards a J development environment but it will take some time... They also made the comment "why are there people trying to revive an old and dead language like APL". I am upfront with them and I don't try to show J as a non-APL or it's not called APL or whatever else one can imagine. I also give proper credit to Kenneth E. Iverson and all the people surrounding current and past development of the concepts behind J. Therefore I am stretching the schedule a bit more but I also keep my integrity and a clear mind (as much as I can). They are also very young people with a strong interest in putting "maketable skills" on their CVs and I heard that more than once before... They lack depth and are in a hurry to get things done with little regards for anything else but fun so their fast judgement should not be a yardstick for all neophytes but rather be a fact of life to be delt with. The real circumstances that led to my posting is that they now know that there is a J community out there and that those "crazy people" exist. In the near future I hope to prepare better ground for some of those "crazy Jers" to come down here and expose a few things. So the posting is really a reality check as well as a message saying something like: OK you have views about J so let's share them with others and see what they have to say. So far so good, the responses from the forum are red back to them so that they now know a bit more about other's opinions and to me it opens up options. So whish me good for I will need to exercise patience (a quality I had only for coding before) in order to generate a stimulating J group here. I was (still is...) a pretty square person about APL/J/K in the past and I am trying my best shot to learn something from all those frustrating past experiences in order to make the current one better for everybody. Thank's for your interest. Regards/Paul >-----Message d'origine----- >De: Murray Eisenberg [SMTP:murray@math.umass.edu] >Date: mardi 18 mai 1999 20:48 >�: forum@jsoftware.com >Objet: Re: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > >Can you be more specific as to what made them come away with this >impression? > >Did you, for example: > >- run one of the supplied demos (e.g., graphics) > >- quickly build a form > >- with a bit of typing (or, from a previously programmed form) calculate > statistics from a data set in a file? > >My experience is that that sort of thing will grab the neophytes -- >provided it doesn't intimidate them! > >paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr wrote: >> >> I showed J4.03a to total J neophytes, there first impression is that it >> looks and feel like a shareware product and, therefore, does not look >> professional. > >-- >Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu >Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) >Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) >Amherst, MA 01003-4515 > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 18 22:20:37 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:07:10 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal > I showed J4.03a to total J neophytes, there first impression is that it > looks and feel like a shareware product and, therefore, does not look > professional. I think I understand what they mean. And I hope we take it seriously: now that I'm pretty much a full-time J programmer, I sure don't want to have to change, and that means ISI needs customers! Bring up Microsoft Visual C++, then bring up J: what differences do you see? (I am using J4.01) 1. While Visual C++ is loading, you get a pretty picture with your licensing information. With J, you get nothing (because it loads too fast). 2. Visual C++ starts you out with a Tip of the Day (I haven't even used C on my machine enough to turn this off, thank goodness!). J has no such gadget. 3. Visual C++ has pretty-pictured buttons on the toolbar. It also has the same pretty pictures in the menu. Help bubbles pop up if you linger over screen areas. J has no toolbar, and the menus are in a single font. 4. Visual C presents you with several panes to type into, and several listboxes that let you select what-I-don't-know, and neat shadows and tastefully-drawn lines that set off the various components. It fairly bristles with latent power and sophistication. The J Session Manager comes up looking like a DOS 3.1 screen, functional but plain. 5. Neither system has sound effects, a glaring flaw in Visual C++ I think. (I have just violated my personal rule against sarcasm on the Net, but I hope I'm among friends). So, yeah, it DOES look like shareware. This is no problem for me, but if something turns potential users off, I hate it. And I wouldn't want ISI to stop what they're doing to add pretty buttons. I don't know how to make J appeal to the MTV generation on a first encounter, but I bet it involves glitzy applications, and I bet that it's the J user community that will have to assemble them. Henry Rich -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From gosi@centrum.is Wed May 19 02:50:51 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: RE: Jforum: Best J Machine - Linux Date: Wed, 19 May 99 06:50:46 +0000 > Did you see the recent posting about programming (and installing Linux?) > I assume you mean this forum. I am not sure what you are refering to. I have seen many things about programming Linux. What is basically missing in J for Linux is an X interface as far as I am concerned. Once X is in there will be a lot of interest in J for Linux. /Gosi From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 04:28:53 1999 From: Baker Stuart Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:15:32 -0000 My own experiences as (1) neophyte, (2) enthusiastic proselytiser (?) and (3) senior customer dealing with various suppliers is this: As a neophyte, I have become enthusiastic about 'new technology' at various times: it has always been an uphill struggle to convert my seniors to anything, and any product which has been most successfully 'sold' at the lower levels of an organization has actively suffered from a geek image problem. The products which sweep markets are in fact sold at a very high level, on grounds which would leave techies open-mouthed. I remember the way IBM hardware penetrated BT in the UK in the '70s in the face of technical superiority of other providers by a strategy of talking only to very senior people. The principle surely should be to convince customers at exec level, and let them worry about telling their troops the good news... I also seem to remember that for several years APL rode in at IPSA on the coat-tails of quite mundane corporate needs for large quantities of globally shared private or public data. As a principle customer (ie with buying power), I found my buying decisions were dominated by specific board requirements for, say, stability in the face of competition, or growth or cost targets. I would have felt vulnerable appearing to be led by my juniors, so even if I were inclined to adopt some software on technical grounds, I would probably cloak that decision-basis in non-IT terms. I am sure this is the way hundreds of copies of software get bought, as opposed to the odd one or two. > ---------- >From: paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr[SMTP:paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr] >Reply To: forum@jsoftware.com >Sent: 19 May 1999 00:49 >To: forum@jsoftware.com >Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > >Hello Murray ! > >Yes, I did all of those, I ran the OpenGL demo then quickly built a form >then showed them a few statictics in the J session window. > ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 06:04:43 1999 From: Subject: Jforum: Jessica Mylek Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:55:28 +0200 I am sending a translation of a french message I received this morning. I don't know if it's true but weighting the odds I decided to follow suite and I therefore send it to this forum hoping not to be misled. Maybe I am naive but I am willing to take that risk. So, here it is: Jessica is a little 7 years old girl having a brain tumor which can't be cured. Doctors give her 6 months ti live and her last wish is to start a worldwide chain of E-Mail to inform people of her state. She wishes happiness for their whole life to healthy people and moreover that they learn to appreciate life before it is too late. The American Cancer Society receives, for each E-Mail sent to their address a gift of 0.03 USD for research. Please send this E-Mail to this address : and send copies to everyone you know. This is a gesture that cost you nothing but nevertheless can do much. Thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Wed May 19 06:15:40 1999 Subject: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek The item does not say who is paying the 0.03 USD, and my impression is that the address might be wrong. The American Cancer Society has their own site, "cancer.org". If this is not the official e-mail address of the society, then why send mail there? It could be a way of collecting e-mail addresses, or it could be a way to flood someone elses mailbox. From paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr Wed May 19 06:21:36 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: Jessica Mylek Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:20:58 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, so here is the official worlwide proof of my naive attitude to life. I really should condemn people using such situations for their own benefit so let it be a lesson to me and I certainly will investigate more the next time. Thank's for you input on this matter/Paul >-----Message d'origine----- >De: Lee Dickey [SMTP:ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca] >Date: mercredi 19 mai 1999 12:16 >=C0: Paul GAUTHIER >Objet: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek > >The item does not say who is paying the 0.03 USD, and my impression is >that the address might be wrong. The American Cancer Society has >their own site, "cancer.org". > >If this is not the official e-mail address of the society, then >why send mail there? It could be a way of collecting e-mail addresses, >or it could be a way to flood someone elses mailbox. > > From owner-apl-l@hermes.csd.unb.ca Wed May 19 06:23:51 1999 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:20:58 +0200 From: Paul Gauthier Subject: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek Comments: To: ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca Comments: cc: forum@jsoftware.com, listbox@kx.com Well, so here is the official worlwide proof of my naive attitude to life. I really should condemn people using such situations for their own benefit so let it be a lesson to me and I certainly will investigate more the next time. Thank's for you input on this matter/Paul >-----Message d'origine----- >De: Lee Dickey [SMTP:ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca] >Date: mercredi 19 mai 1999 12:16 >=C0: Paul GAUTHIER >Objet: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek > >The item does not say who is paying the 0.03 USD, and my impression is >that the address might be wrong. The American Cancer Society has >their own site, "cancer.org". > >If this is not the official e-mail address of the society, then >why send mail there? It could be a way of collecting e-mail addresses, >or it could be a way to flood someone elses mailbox. > > From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 06:29:33 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: Jessica Mylek Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:20:58 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id GAA07867 Well, so here is the official worlwide proof of my naive attitude to life. I really should condemn people using such situations for their own benefit so let it be a lesson to me and I certainly will investigate more the next time. Thank's for you input on this matter/Paul >-----Message d'origine----- >De: Lee Dickey [SMTP:ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca] >Date: mercredi 19 mai 1999 12:16 >�: Paul GAUTHIER >Objet: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek > >The item does not say who is paying the 0.03 USD, and my impression is >that the address might be wrong. The American Cancer Society has >their own site, "cancer.org". > >If this is not the official e-mail address of the society, then >why send mail there? It could be a way of collecting e-mail addresses, >or it could be a way to flood someone elses mailbox. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 06:58:35 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:49:04 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id GAA09912 I should admit that I am a naive never cloaking anything person and I used to have difficulties with that but now I deal with it for what it is... Straight sincere naive honesty. I know it's not politically correct for most complex paradigms in society but life to me has pointed very clearly that one of the main source of suffering is lying and/or cloaking. I might be an extreme in that sense, but it's me. So I am glad that people like you can deal with the political side of things because, I could not, in the next hundred years... It makes both my charm and my drawbacks. Thank's for your insight/Paul >-----Message d'origine----- >De: Baker Stuart [SMTP:stuart.baker@hyder.com] >Date: mercredi 19 mai 1999 11:16 >�: 'forum@jsoftware.com' >Objet: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > >As a principle customer (ie with buying power), I found my buying decisions >were dominated by specific board requirements for, say, stability in the >face of competition, or growth or cost targets. I would have felt vulnerable >appearing to be led by my juniors, so even if I were inclined to adopt some >software on technical grounds, I would probably cloak that decision-basis in >non-IT terms. I am sure this is the way hundreds of copies of software get >bought, as opposed to the odd one or two. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Wed May 19 08:04:56 1999 Subject: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek The page http://www.cancer.org/chain.html says The American Cancer Society is greatly disturbed by reports of a fraudulent chain letter circulating on the internet which lists the American Cancer Society as a "corporate sponsor" but which has in no way been endorsed by the American Cancer Society. There are several variations of this letter in circulation, including one which has a picture of "Tickle Me Elmo" and one that is essentially a paraphrase of ..." [a letter found at "http://www.cancer.org/letter.html"]. > From owner-apl-l@hermes.csd.unb.ca Wed May 19 06:23:51 1999 > Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:20:58 +0200 > From: Paul Gauthier > Subject: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek > To: APL-L@hermes.csd.unb.ca > > Well, so here is the official worlwide proof of my naive attitude to > life. > I really should condemn people using such situations for their own > benefit so let it be a lesson to me and I certainly will investigate > more the next time. > > Thank's for you input on this matter/Paul > > >-----Message d'origine----- > >De: Lee Dickey [SMTP:ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca] > >Date: mercredi 19 mai 1999 12:16 > >=C0: Paul GAUTHIER > >Objet: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek > > > >The item does not say who is paying the 0.03 USD, and my impression is > >that the address might be wrong. The American Cancer Society has > >their own site, "cancer.org". > > > >If this is not the official e-mail address of the society, then > >why send mail there? It could be a way of collecting e-mail addresses, > >or it could be a way to flood someone elses mailbox. > > > > > From paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr Wed May 19 08:52:40 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: Jessica Mylek Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:52:01 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you very much for pointing this out to me. I will not forward this one to the 3 groups (APL/J/K) since they already know about the suspicious/fraudulent aspect of the original message (thank's to you again). I have a sister actually dying of cancer and my heart was faster than my brain on this claim. I do know that we should always feel, think and only then act. This is what happens when the feel then act pattern is followed. I apologize for any inconvenience/Paul >-----Message d'origine----- >De: Lee Dickey [SMTP:ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca] >Date: mercredi 19 mai 1999 14:05 >=C0: Paul GAUTHIER >Objet: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek > >The page > > http://www.cancer.org/chain.html > >says > >=09 > The American Cancer Society is greatly disturbed by > reports of a fraudulent chain letter circulating on the > internet which lists the American Cancer Society as a > "corporate sponsor" but which has in no way been > endorsed by the American Cancer Society. There are > several variations of this letter in circulation, > including one which has a picture of "Tickle Me Elmo" > and one that is essentially a paraphrase of ..." >=09 > [a letter found at "http://www.cancer.org/letter.html"]. > > >> From owner-apl-l@hermes.csd.unb.ca Wed May 19 06:23:51 1999 >> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:20:58 +0200 >> From: Paul Gauthier >> Subject: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek >> To: APL-L@hermes.csd.unb.ca >>=20 >> Well, so here is the official worlwide proof of my naive attitude to >> life. >> I really should condemn people using such situations for their own >> benefit so let it be a lesson to me and I certainly will investigate >> more the next time. >>=20 >> Thank's for you input on this matter/Paul >>=20 >> >-----Message d'origine----- >> >De: Lee Dickey [SMTP:ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca] >> >Date: mercredi 19 mai 1999 12:16 >> >=3DC0: Paul GAUTHIER >> >Objet: Re: Jforum: Jessica Mylek >> > >> >The item does not say who is paying the 0.03 USD, and my impression = is >> >that the address might be wrong. The American Cancer Society has >> >their own site, "cancer.org". >> > >> >If this is not the official e-mail address of the society, then >> >why send mail there? It could be a way of collecting e-mail = addresses, >> >or it could be a way to flood someone elses mailbox. >> > >> > >>=20 From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 10:19:28 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:04:37 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: Seymour Glass [SMTP:glasss@mindspring.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 21:07 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > > 2. Visual C++ starts you out with a Tip of the Day (I haven't even > used > C on my machine enough to turn this off, thank goodness!). J has no > such > gadget. > I suppose, "tip of the day" feature should be included in j startup files also. The source of the tips is already included in j distribution (look in system/extras/phrases). nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 10:20:21 1999 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:10:19 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: Build using *.ijl in J4.03 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id KAA21019 The target file can not be specified as other than *.ijs. TH eproject manager filters the file name. I have to modify the ijp file by hand to have it use ijl file as a build result. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Wed May 19 11:14:46 1999 Subject: RE: Jforum: Jessica Mylek Dear Paul, I am very sorry to hear about your sister's illness, and I understand your reaction. I think it is quite natural in the circumstances. My wish is that your sister may find a recovery and that, in any case, she can be free of pain. It was not really an inconvenience. A side benefit: It caused me to discover the American Cancer Society web site. Lee From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 14:41:53 1999 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:15:43 -0700 From: gordon@island.net (Ken Ian Gordon) Subject: Jforum: Selling/introducing J/APL Once upon a time, I managed to make APL the main development language in a rapidly growing (at the time) computer sales and manufacturing co. We ended up essentially running the whole $2B subsidiary on some 12,000 lines of code, building applications from tools implemented in APL. The reason it succeeded was that I was supported/protected for a few months by a senior VP of finance, long enough to deliver the first results. The reason for the support was the ability to deliver fast new development and problem solutions otherwise unavailable. Senior management did not care about the language, they only cared about results, and that they got. They also got reduced costs for IT and the benefit of common data from dictionary driven tools. The opposition was all from the lower levels. APL did nothing for the resume. It reduced the number of people needed and hence the size of the department. Not all of them could adjust their thinking to become effective. The manager with an approved 18 month budget for 30 people was not happy to find out 3 of them with our tools could do the job in a few months. He told them to go back to COBOL and forget what they had learned. Programmers threatend to transfer out of IT departments if the manager adopted our tools. Despite all this our techniques were used at several other sites around the world where the adopting group was under sufficient time and budget pressures. Neither the developers nor the users saw any APL as such, they used tools, automatically generated forms and query techniques that happend to be written in APL. J runs into the same support/opposition issues so long as it is a niche player. The programmers don't see any advertisements for J experts but hundreds for Oracle, C++, Java, SQL, and so on. Their managers don't get the warm and fuzzies from expensive national advertising that validates their choices. Talking about a J development environment with fellow managers is a non starter. Adding J to the resume does not get you the next bigger job. So accept it. Just use it. Preferably not to build applications directly in J, but to build generic tools for applications development. Solve the problems better and faster than others. The business managers will back you and once you are the CIO ... As a last note, I remember a COBOL programmer's put down of "Apl is all very well if you need a fast solution". To which I asked "has anyone ever asked you for a slow solution?" regards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 14:52:21 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <199905191010_MC2-7653-C76B@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: Build using *.ijl in J4.03 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:58:03 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, this has been fixed now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:10 AM Subject: Jforum: Build using *.ijl in J4.03 > The target file can not be specified as other than *.ijs. TH eproject > manager filters the file name. I have to modify the ijp file by hand to > have it use ijl file as a build result. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 15:14:49 1999 From: "David Vincent-Jones" Subject: Jforum: Closing Functions Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:07:06 -0700 I have had an ongoing battle with the closing bracket " ) " on functions and hope somebody can give me a clue as to what is going on. Sometimes, not often, I will get an error message that looks like this �ill-formed number � fill=: 3 :0 �[-38] The [38] is pointing to the " ) " Usually the function is the last one in the script. When I look at the list of names, that function is missing. It often happens after some editing and usually when the function has been already running. Sometimes when I move the function up in the script the problem cures itself, not always. I am running Win'95 with ver 4.02a Any ideas ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 15:19:48 1999 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:03:57 -0400 From: David Ness Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions References: <001b01bea21a$2f25ac00$370881ce@desktop> I find it difficult to respond without a rather exact sample of the code that actually caused the error.. Offhand I'd assume you had an `ill-formed number' in your text and that this was causing the problem not the `)', but without the sample it is difficult to tell... David Vincent-Jones wrote: > > I have had an ongoing battle with the closing bracket " ) " on functions and ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 15:25:22 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:17:39 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" I think this "phrase of the day" suggestion is a great idea. Probably too late for the 403a release, though. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Nikitin Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:04 AM Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Seymour Glass [SMTP:glasss@mindspring.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 21:07 > > To: forum@jsoftware.com > > Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > > > > 2. Visual C++ starts you out with a Tip of the Day (I haven't even > > used > > C on my machine enough to turn this off, thank goodness!). J has no > > such > > gadget. > > > I suppose, "tip of the day" feature should be included in j startup > files also. The source of the tips is already included in j distribution > (look in system/extras/phrases). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 16:24:09 1999 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:56:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Olivier Lefevre Subject: Re: Jforum: Selling/introducing J/APL In-Reply-To: <199905191815.LAA25145@mimas.island.net> Even with CIO backing success is not guaranteed. K had backing at that level and higher at UBS and was nonetheless expunged over the year 1998. I believe the best niche for fringe languages like APL (et al.) is in small service companies that write and use their own tools, not in the IT arm of large corporations, no matter under how stressed and squeezed they may be. -- O.L. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 16:42:40 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: RE: Jforum: Closing Functions Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:23:24 -0500 Another possible reason is extra spaces after the bracket. If it is last definition of the file it is also possible that newline character does not follow the bracket. > -----Original Message----- > ... > Offhand I'd assume you had an `ill-formed number' in your text and > that this was causing the problem not the `)', but without the > sample it is difficult to tell... > > David Vincent-Jones wrote: > > > > I have had an ongoing battle with the closing bracket " ) " on > functions and > ... > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 18:18:17 1999 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:09:34 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions References: <001b01bea21a$2f25ac00$370881ce@desktop> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David Vincent-Jones wrote: > I have had an ongoing battle with the closing bracket " ) " on functionsooks like this > > �ill-formed number > � fill=: 3 :0 > �[-38] I think the following simple script demonstrates the problem: **** f=: 3 : 0 0 2w 3 ) *** | |ill-formed number | f=: 3 :0 |[-5] The line number [-5] gives the script line where the error was detected. The script lines from the start of the definition up to the closing ) are taken in as a noun that is fed to the 3 : . The ill-formed number is not detected reading the lines to build the noun, and is detected when building the explicit definition. You need to look at the definition (from the name up to the closing paren indicated in the error message) for an ill-formed number. Coloring numbers might help. There are similar situations with open quotes and control structure errors, but in those cases there is additional information in the error message. Perhaps we should provide similar extra information for ill-formed number. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Wed May 19 18:31:31 1999 Subject: Personal mail, not for the JFORUM . Dear Paul, Just to continue your education. Here is something I got today. After collecting many e-mail addresses, this company probably used their own list to send out their advertising! These guys scan every news group and use every trick they can to collect e-mail addresses. The profit margins are HUGE. It costs about a dollar to make one disk. Put them in a case or a sleve, and add postage. They are asking 225 dollars each This is a lucrative business. Also notice that they quote one user who says she is very happy to have 55 orders based on 10,000 e-mail advertisements! Lee > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 03:51:23 +0800 > To: win678@buzz.acacia.se > Subject: JUST RELEASED! CD VOL. 4 > > > PRESS RELEASE! > OUR LATEST & GREATEST IS JUST RELEASED! > > THE MILLIONS CD - VOL. 4 > > 10 MILLION of the VERY BEST email addresses available anywhere!! > > The Millions CD - VOL. 4, is the ABSOLUTE BEST product of > its kind anywhere in the world today. There are NO OTHER > products ANYWHERE that can compete with the quality of this CD. > After almost 2 years. We've even outdone ourselves with this volume. > > The Millions CD - VOL. 4 is comprised of 10 MILLION > PREMIUM & SUPER clean email addresses - you can start > mailing as soon as you receive the CD! (See the "How We Do It" > techniques described below). Each file contains exactly 100,000 > email addresses. There are ONLY AOL & Mixed addresses on this CD. > > AOL: > You get over 50 files of 100,000 each of AOL which equals > over 5,000,000 addresses. The AOL addresses are verified 100% > deliverable at time of production and were collected throughout the > production schedule-then reverified as deliverable. > > ALL of the following domains have been REMOVED > from VOL. 4. > > ABSOLUTELY NOT INCLUDED: > CompuServe.com > Genie.com > Delphi.com > GNN.com (dropped by AOL and not active at this time), > edu, .gov, .mil, .org, and NO state domains ending > in .us > NO international domains used on this CD. ONLY > pure .COM & .NET !!! > > NO "duplicate" addresses. ALL "dupes" were filtered out. > > HERE'S HOW WE GET THE CLEANEST EMAIL > ADDRESSES AVAILABLE ANYWHERE!! > 1. 190+ million lines of email addresses were filtered and > duplicates eliminated. This process, alone, reduces the list > into a manageable number. > 2. Another filter list of 400+ words / phrases were used to > reduce the lists even more. No addresses with profane or > inappropriate wording survived. > 3. A special filter file was used to eliminate most of the > "web poisoned" email addresses from these lists. Most of > the lists we purged were full of bogus addresses. One list, > in particular, had over 90% poison in it. Our EXCLUSIVE > system reduced these types of addresses to zero. > 4. A "daily updated" anti bulk email list of terrorists and > general anti-internet advertising extremists was used to > rid our lists of those people who, in a cowardly > and deliberate manner, attack all marketing people who > choose to utilize the greatest marketing discovery of all > time - DIRECT EMAIL. Our database of these individuals is > the largest one maintained worldwide and it keeps our > lists of undesirable and extremist elements. > 5. In addition to the above, we also maintain a database > that we update EVERY DAY. This database contains > undeliverable addresses, AND addresses of those who > have asked to be removed from any and all mailing lists > (this is comparable to the opt-out kind of list maintained > by the DMA, etc). > > OWNING THIS CD . . . > is equivalent to you having to buy ALL LISTS > and other CDs of our competitors, plus the huge amount > of resources our team secures through private means. > > THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE IS . . . . > ours is thoroughly cleaned & free of all the "filled" & "bogus" > addresses used by our competition to add inflated numbers > to their lists. We perform hundreds of hours of production > and thousands of dollars in order to offer you the cleanest > and PUREST CD of quality addresses found ANYWHERE > worldwide! > > Sending your marketing letter to any ONE of our 100 lists > of 100,000 ( 10 Million in all) is equivalent to sending > 1,000,000 / ONE MILLION of our competitors addresses to > equal the same response, sales ratio, etc. Wouldn't you rather > send just 100,000 instead of 1,000,000 letters? Just think what > results you would get if you sent 1,000,000 using OUR quality > lists! With our lists you will send less and get more results. > > OUR LIST WILL RESULT IN: > Higher response ratios > Higher sales ratios > More receptive prospects; less flames & non-buyers > LESS contact with anti-commerce radicals who want the > net for themselves! > > You'll get 100 of the CLEANEST email files available anywhere! > Each of our new volumes improves in quality and content. > No competitor even comes close to matching this superior > product. You must use it and compare for yourself! > > This product will prove to be the best of it's kind compared to > ANY CD in terms of hours and money spent bringing it to market. > No competitor will ever duplicate the effort of what it takes > for us to produce this final product. > > We don9t compromise quality, and we surely won't release > any product before it passes our "high standards" test for > quality. > > "You can buy the all of the REST or you can buy from the BEST"! > > THE MILLIONS CD - VOL. 4 IS THE BEST! > __________________________________________ > > HERE'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING . . . . > "I received the CD on Friday. Like a kid with a new toy, > I immediately started mailing out using the new email addresses. From > the CD. I am 100% totally satisfied with my purchase!!" > David Buckley, Houston, TX > > "This list is worth it's weight in gold. I sent out only > 100,000 emails for my product and received over 55 > orders! Wow!" > Anne Colby, New Orleans, LA > __________________________________________ > > DON9T HESITATE on this one or you will miss out on the > most effective way to market anywhere...PERIOD! > If you have any further questions or to place an order, > you can call us direct at: > > 1-412-734-1488 > > __________________________________________ > > THE MILLIONS CD - VOLUME 4 > > ***** NOW ONLY $225.00! ***_ > > This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be > $299.00 so ORDER NOW! Remember, bottom-line you always get what you pay for! > > > TO ORDER our email package, simply print out the > EZ ORDER FORM below and fax our office today. > > We accept Visa, Mastercard, Amex, and Checks by Fax. > __________________________________________ > > EZ Order Form > > _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 4 email addresses > for only $225.00. > > *Please select one of the following for shipping.. > > ____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including > $15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping) > > ____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including > $10 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping) > > DATE_____________________________________________________ > > NAME____________________________________________________ > > COMPANY NAME___________________________________________ > > ADDRESS_________________________________________________ > > CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________ > > PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________ > > FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________ > > EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________ > > TYPE OF CREDIT CARD: > > ______VISA _____MASTERCARD > > CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________ > > EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________ > > NAME ON CARD___________________________________________ > > AMOUNT $____________________ > > (Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________ > > DATE:x__________________ > > You may fax your order to us at: 1-412-291-1133 > > > CHECK BY FAX SERVICES! > > If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to > our office along with all forms to: 1-412-291-1133 > > ****************************************************** > > ***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR > > CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-412-291-1133 > > ******************************************************* > > If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check. > We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your > original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance. (7-10 days) > Make payable to: "CE Networks" From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 20:34:15 1999 From: "David Vincent-Jones" References: <001b01bea21a$2f25ac00$370881ce@desktop> <3743369E.41ED@interlog.com> Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:16:41 -0700 Thanks Eric for your words of wisdom; What I find is that the indicated number is from the top of the script and not top of function. To try and isolate the problem I copied the bare function to a new script, the error message then changed to include the word "script__" as below. �ill-formed number: script__ � fill=: 3 :0 �[-32] There is absolutely nothing in my script after the closing bracket and the bracket has been deleted and replaced to ensure a clean end. This is not a new problem. I have run across this several times and the debug functions unfortunately don't help David V-J ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Iverson Sent: May 19, 1999 3:09 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions > David Vincent-Jones wrote: > > I have had an ongoing battle with the closing bracket " ) " on functionsooks like this > > > > �ill-formed number > > � fill=: 3 :0 > > �[-38] > > I think the following simple script demonstrates the problem: > > **** > > f=: 3 : 0 > 0 > 2w > 3 > ) > *** > > | > |ill-formed number > | f=: 3 :0 > |[-5] > > The line number [-5] gives the script line where the error was detected. > The script lines from the start of the definition up to the closing ) > are taken in as a noun that is fed to the 3 : . The ill-formed number is > not detected reading the lines to build the noun, and is detected when > building the explicit definition. > > You need to look at the definition (from the name up to the closing > paren indicated in the error message) for an ill-formed number. Coloring > numbers might help. > > There are similar situations with open quotes and control structure > errors, but in those cases there is additional information in the error > message. Perhaps we should provide similar extra information for > ill-formed number. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 22:04:31 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions Date: Thu, 20 May 99 01:53:48 +0000 Sending in these lines by using +w ff=: 3 :0 2w 2+2 ) results in load'c:\j403beta\temp\1.ijs' ill-formed number: script__ � ff=: 3 :0 �[-3] Sending those lines one by one with +r results in: ff=: 3 :0 2w 2+2 ) �ill-formed number � ff=: 3 :0 Sending those lines in with +r again and not sending the first line results in: 2w �ill-formed number 2+2 4 ) �syntax error � ) This points straight to the culprit At last sending the lines: NB. ff=: 3 :0 2w 2+2 ) with +w results in: load'c:\j403beta\temp\1.ijs' �ill-formed number �[-1] This points straight to the culprit as well /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 22:19:14 1999 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:59:55 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions References: <001b01bea21a$2f25ac00$370881ce@desktop> <3743369E.41ED@interlog.com> <005b01bea256$338cb860$370881ce@desktop> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David Vincent-Jones wrote: > What I find is that the indicated number is from the top of the script and > not top of function. The line number in [brackets] is the line number in the the script where the error was detected. In this case it is the sript line with the closing paren. The ill-formed number is somehwere in the definition that is closed with that paren. > To try and isolate the problem I copied the bare function to a new script, > the error message then changed to include the word "script__" as below. > > �ill-formed number: script__ > � fill=: 3 :0 > �[-32] > > There is absolutely nothing in my script after the closing bracket and the > bracket has been deleted and replaced to ensure a clean end. > > This is not a new problem. I have run across this several times and the > debug functions unfortunately don't help I'm not sure if we've made progress or not. You seem to be making it more mysterious than it is. The ill-formed number is in the definition of fill. That is, you have an ill-formed number on a line in the script that is between the line that starts the definion (that is, fill=: 3 ; 0) and the right paren that ends the definition. Whatever comes before or after the definition of fill is irrelevant. What you have to do is to examine the fill definition to look for the ill-formed number. Normally a quick visual scan looking for things like 123w or 1..2 would do. But it looks like you have a big definition (30 lines). If you can't find it by visually scanning, try a more brute force method. Copy the definition to a temp script and run it repeatedly while deleting lines until you delete the offending line. Once you know which line to look at, I'm sure the ill-formed number will leap out at you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 23:02:55 1999 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:54:37 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: odbc lab A simple application Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id WAA00755 Starts like this: load 'dd'' |open quote | load 'dd'' | ^ |[-0] I typed : load'dd' to keep it going. At step 9 of 10... stuff like this appears: +-------+-----------------+---------------------------------+ |1998 5 |92.39999999999999|+-----------------+---+ | | | ||meal |gas| | | | |+-----------------+---+ | | | ||72.39999999999999|20 | | | | |+-----------------+---+ | +-------+-----------------+---------------------------------+ Display precision is defaulted at 16 digits. Too much. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 23:07:25 1999 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:54:30 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J4.03 odbc: Basic ODBC Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id WAA00804 sql update tdata set salary = salary - round(salary * 0.10) ddtrn ch2 0 sql ddsql ch2 _1 dderr'' 42000 _3102 [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Undefined function 'round' in expression. Is why this didn't work: -----------------------------------------------------------16 NB. give everyone a pay cut sql =: 'update tdata set salary = salary - round(salary * 0.10)' sql ddsql ch2 _1 NB. how many people took a hit ddcnt '' 0 -----------------------------------------------------------17 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 19 23:13:24 1999 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:04:20 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 beta (3rd version) The 3rd version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a.exe Reported bugs have been fixed and many suggestions have been incorporated. Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From ljdickey Thu May 20 05:54:37 1999 Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions Eric wrote > ... But > it looks like you have a big definition (30 lines). If you can't find it > by visually scanning, try a more brute force method. Copy the definition > to a temp script and run it repeatedly while deleting lines until you > delete the offending line. Once you know which line to look at, I'm sure > the ill-formed number will leap out at you. This sounds like an algorithm, something that a computer or interpreter might be good at, and since it is a native speaker of the language, it might be much better than a human. Do I hear a call for better diagnostics / error messages. From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 06:11:51 1999 From: Lee Dickey Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions Eric wrote > ... But > it looks like you have a big definition (30 lines). If you can't find it > by visually scanning, try a more brute force method. Copy the definition > to a temp script and run it repeatedly while deleting lines until you > delete the offending line. Once you know which line to look at, I'm sure > the ill-formed number will leap out at you. This sounds like an algorithm, something that a computer or interpreter might be good at, and since it is a native speaker of the language, it might be much better than a human. Do I hear a call for better diagnostics / error messages. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 06:20:59 1999 From: Subject: Jforum: J4.03aBeta's version of perpetual movement... Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:07:56 +0200 >From the J main session window, if you click for Help then select "contents and Index", then click the Search tab, then whatever you select will end up not displaying the search tab and you can redo this over and over again selecting the 3 different choices and you always end up having nothing (error message is that it can't display the Search Tab (177)) Regards/Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 08:13:52 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:01:32 -0400 From: Jake Subject: Re: Jforum: Selling/introducing J/APL References: Did UBS give any reason ? What was the true reason ? _____________________________________________ Olivier Lefevre wrote: > > Even with CIO backing success is not guaranteed. K had backing at that > level and higher at UBS and was nonetheless expunged over the year 1998... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 08:57:42 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:18:04 +0300 charset="iso-8859-1" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002201bea22c$4bf28bc0$cd0114d1@Pcdburke> The place for phrases is the 'latent expression'. And it's never too late to do it in one's profile. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody already have that. It's much less obstrusive in the session log, and more useful -- for copying and running. Not many would be happy with an irriating pop-up tip demanding an extra mouse click. Can one make such customised tip in VS, or other integrated env. and throw in lunar phases? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Chris Burke > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 22:18 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > > > I think this "phrase of the day" suggestion is a great idea. Probably > too late for the 403a release, though. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andrew Nikitin > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:04 AM > Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Seymour Glass [SMTP:glasss@mindspring.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 21:07 > > > To: forum@jsoftware.com > > > Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03a as seen by neophytes > > > > > > 2. Visual C++ starts you out with a Tip of the Day (I haven't > even > > > used > > > C on my machine enough to turn this off, thank goodness!). J has > no > > > such > > > gadget. > > > > > I suppose, "tip of the day" feature should be included in j startup > > files also. The source of the tips is already included in j > distribution > > (look in system/extras/phrases). > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 09:58:39 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:39:02 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03aBeta's version of perpetual movement... References: paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr wrote: > >From the J main session window, if you click for Help then select > "contents and Index", then click the Search tab, then whatever you > select will end up not displaying the search tab and you can redo this > over and over again selecting the 3 different choices and you always end > up having nothing (error message is that it can't display the Search Tab > (177)) > Regards/Paul Thanks for the bug report (unable to build help/find search tables). We'll fix it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 11:14:27 1999 From: Ajith Prasad Subject: RE: Jforum: Selling/introducing J/APL Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:58:16 +0800 charset="windows-1252" Did UBS: (i) retain existing K applications but write all new applications in other languages;or (ii) retain existing K applications and write new applications in other languages in addition to K;or (iii) rewrite existing K applications and develop all new applications in languages other than K? -----Original Message----- From: Jake Sent: 5/20/99 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: Selling/introducing J/APL Did UBS give any reason ? What was the true reason ? _____________________________________________ Olivier Lefevre wrote: > > Even with CIO backing success is not guaranteed. K had backing at that > level and higher at UBS and was nonetheless expunged over the year 1998... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 11:15:24 1999 From: "Ondrus, Milan" Subject: Jforum: ODBC Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:28:44 +0200 I downloaded the J version 4.03a. I have a msAccess database defined and registered in ODBC. As long as I do not define a special username and password for this database I can access it from J 4.03a without any problems. However if I define a username and password I got in J4.03a the error message : IM002 0 [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not found and no default driver specified.. so as if the database is not registered but if I do the same under J4.02a it works... eg: connectionhandle =. ddcon'dsn=dbname;uid=donald;pwd=duck' I ran into this problem on Windows 98+95+NT 4.0. What do I wrong? /Milan Ondrus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 11:58:27 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:18:16 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: J 4.03 beta (3rd version) References: <37437BB4.33E2@interlog.com> I find it hard to keep track of downloaded multiple builds of a beta when they have identical file names. Could you use different names for different builds? For example: j403a01.exe, j403a02.exe, etc. Eric Iverson wrote: > > The 3rd version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). > > http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a.exe -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 11:59:06 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:26:00 -0500 Edit box with shcheme name in 'color' tab of 'configure' dilog box allows to enter the name with spaces. After this you cannot return back to this tab, because of error pops. ----------------------------------------- error in: cfmain_tabs_button value error: VB VB style=: 0 : 0 [-85] ----------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 13:53:01 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Thu, 20 May 99 17:35:03 +0000 I was defining colours and wanted to add user defined verbs. I may have missed a discussion on this earlier but is it not possible to get colour on things defined with " 3 : 0 " ? Global assignment displays while I am doing the assignment but after that it does not show. Names is a strings phenomen it shows all kinds of texts as names as long as there are no "." at the end of the name. I would like to be able to assign different colour to user defined verbs in different locales. so that doing names '' would show me different colours for verbs and nouns and the utilities would also display differently depending in what locale they are found. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 14:57:43 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:45:01 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: ODBC Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id OAA01635 > What do I wrong?< Nothing. I expect that if you give your username and password in the odbc applet in the control panel, all should go well. I never tried it. I just expect that that is what to do. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 17:37:36 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:31:26 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J4.03 shift,ctrl,up arrow Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id RAA13762 I got used to it! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 19:00:40 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:07:40 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions References: <001b01bea21a$2f25ac00$370881ce@desktop> <3743369E.41ED@interlog.com> Eric Iverson wrote: > > The line number [-5] gives the script line where the error was detected.... Which reminds me: Is the meaning of a negative line number documented somewhere? When I first came upon it some time ago, I couldn't find any general documentation about that. -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 19:22:41 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Thu, 20 May 99 18:07:06 +0000 I was resetting the defaults after wild colouring and I got "error in: cfmain_defaults_button file name error: cfmain_defaults_button 0!:0 X-Fontfamily: Geneva X-Fontsize: 12 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The version I am running is (from the "About J" panel") J release 3.03a for Macintosh Standard Edition Does this mean it is not the PPC version? If not, is the PPC version still downloadable? (that is one that works with my registration number) ****Also, if possible, please fix the problem in J403beta for Windows where (under the Windows emulator on the Mac). File|Open will not open a file (Windows reports that J.exe has made an error, in particular a zero divide, and shuts down J), while opening a previously worked on file listed at the bottom of the File menu works just fine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 19:25:11 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: Jforum: j403 editor Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:05:09 -0500 Does it sound reasonable to swap meanings of the Ctrl+Up/Down (Scroll screen) and Shift+Ctrl+Up/Down (recall previous line)? Recalling the previous line is involved much more often screen scrolling, so it should be assigned combination with less keys. I don't even mention that this is closer to previous assignment for prior lines. nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 19:25:12 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:06:14 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (4th version) The 3rd version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a04.exe Same as 3rd, except problem building help|find fixed. Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 19:25:13 1999 From: "David Vincent-Jones" Subject: Jforum: Closing Bracket Solved Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:09:01 -0700 OK Eric, I finally solved the problem. You were right it had nothing to do with the closing bracket but was in fact a series of problems within the function. I had used _var rather than -var in 4 lines.......very simple!! I do find it interesting however that it ran without error for a week before the message occurred and then shut me down. APL error messages were always too cryptic for my liking.. when I have a problem I like all the help that I can get. I even find it a pain trying to set a series of debug stops in a long function without a line count guide. David V-J -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 22:16:01 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <374447c85184001@blik.skima.is> Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:00:10 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" No, it is not yet possible to color the names of nouns and verbs differently, or to specify colors by locale. > I was defining colours and wanted to add user defined verbs. > I may have missed a discussion on this earlier > but is it not possible to get colour on things defined with " 3 : 0 " ? > > Global assignment displays while I am doing the assignment but > after that it does not show. Names is a strings phenomen it shows > all kinds of texts as names as long as there are no "." at the end of the name. > > I would like to be able to assign different colour to user defined verbs in > different locales. > so that doing names '' would show me different colours for verbs and nouns and > the > utilities would also display differently depending in what locale they are > found. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 22:16:05 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <37444f4a6db5001@blik.skima.is> Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 21:58:01 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Fixed thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 2:07 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes > I was resetting the defaults after wild colouring and I got > > "error in: cfmain_defaults_button > > file name error: cfmain_defaults_button > 0!:0 > /Gosi > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 22:16:04 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:00:43 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Fixed, thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Nikitin Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 9:26 AM Subject: Jforum: color shchemes > Edit box with shcheme name in 'color' tab of 'configure' dilog box > allows to enter the name with spaces. > > After this you cannot return back to this tab, because of error pops. > ----------------------------------------- > error in: cfmain_tabs_button > > value error: VB > VB style=: 0 : 0 > [-85] > ----------------------------------------- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 22:41:39 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:17:30 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions References: <001b01bea21a$2f25ac00$370881ce@desktop> <3743369E.41ED@interlog.com> <3744253C.14138942@math.umass.edu> Murray Eisenberg wrote: > Eric Iverson wrote: > > The line number [-5] gives the script line where the error was detected.... > > Which reminds me: Is the meaning of a negative line number documented > somewhere? When I first came upon it some time ago, I couldn't find any > general documentation about that. Probably not in the formal sense you mean. But a help find for [- does get two hits. The second one, in the Primer, explains it. There is a point with documentation where more is not necessarily better. If every detail was formally documented, then there would be so much material you could not possibly have surveyed it all. Let's assume [-n] was 'properly' documented, but you had never actually read and remembered its formal description. The question then is which is quicker and more educational: search for and study the documentation; or say, hmmm, looks like a line number to me, create a temp script, key in a few quick experiments, and see what it really is. I'm not arguing against better documentation. But let's not forget what poweful tools we have in deductive reasoning and a system where experiments are easy and rewarding. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 23:12:38 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:58:05 -0400 From: David Ness Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions References: <001b01bea21a$2f25ac00$370881ce@desktop> <3743369E.41ED@interlog.com> <3744253C.14138942@math.umass.edu> <3744C23A.54DC@interlog.com> Eric Iverson wrote: > > Murray Eisenberg wrote: > > Eric Iverson wrote: > > > The line number [-5] gives the script line where the error was detected.... > > I think Eric makes a point that is important enough to emphasize, not that there was anything wrong with questioning the documentation involved in this particular problem. _Nothing_ would be worse than having a document that described _every_ possible error. I used to work with a DP manager who's favorite phrase was `... ok, I can bury you in that ...' whenever information was requested. He quickly taught everyone that _more information_ was often worse than less. There's a certain `gotcha' aspect to documentation. Somehow (bad) documenters love to be able to say ` ... no, that _is_ documented in sub-paragraph 6b on page 383 ...' as though this were a help to anyone. What constitutes `good' documentation is much harder to describe: clarity, conciseness, focus, findability, ... all have a part. It's not that I'm particularly in love with the way that errors are handled in `J'. However, it does seem to me that: (1) they are handled consistently; (2) they are handled rigorously; and (3) they are handled in some way that makes sense to someone smart (not me, but at least someone else who happens to be smart). As a result I find that I usually can (1) believe them; (2) gradually figure out what they mean; and (3) gradually improve at figuring out what they mean. Note that typical Windows errors have none of these characteristics, although I have many volumes on my bookshelf that purport to help me with `Windows error analysis'. Years (perhaps too many) of education lead me to believe that the easiest error diagnosis processes _aren't_ always the most instructive. Js are, IMO, not bad in comparison with most of the other alternatives that I encounter daily... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 23:22:27 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:03:59 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Functions References: <001b01bea21a$2f25ac00$370881ce@desktop> <3743369E.41ED@interlog.com> <3744253C.14138942@math.umass.edu> <3744C23A.54DC@interlog.com> The first time (years ago already!) I ran into [-n] in an error message, I began counting backwards in the script. I suppose I _should_ have known better: after all, if you really wanted to say, in J, 5 lines from the end, you would have given the message in the form [_n]. But I think my initial reaction was the reasonable expectation that a neophyte, or not-so-neophtye, might have. Which is why I queried documenting it. I agree that you cannot document everything, and for the reason stated. Eric Iverson wrote: > > Murray Eisenberg wrote: > > Eric Iverson wrote: > > > The line number [-5] gives the script line where the error was detected.... > > > > Which reminds me: Is the meaning of a negative line number documented > > somewhere? When I first came upon it some time ago, I couldn't find any > > general documentation about that. > > Probably not in the formal sense you mean. But a help find for [- does > get two hits. The second one, in the Primer, explains it. > > There is a point with documentation where more is not necessarily > better. If every detail was formally documented, then there would be so > much material you could not possibly have surveyed it all. Let's assume > [-n] was 'properly' documented, but you had never actually read and > remembered its formal description. The question then is which is quicker > and more educational: search for and study the documentation; or say, > hmmm, looks like a line number to me, create a temp script, key in a few > quick experiments, and see what it really is. > > I'm not arguing against better documentation. But let's not forget what > poweful tools we have in deductive reasoning and a system where > experiments are easy and rewarding. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 23:27:10 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:10:11 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes References: <374447c85184001@blik.skima.is> <007b01bea32d$eb09dae0$3e0114d1@Pcdburke> For user-defined objects, would I assume correctly that the problem is one of time-of-binding -- that the interpreter simply cannot always know what part of speech a name is? If that's the reason that nouns and verbs cannot be differently colored, that doesn't preclude, does it, differently coloring primitives (or user-defined objects whose part of speech is known)? For beginners, in my experience, recognizing the different parts of speech is a major learning difficulty, and coloring could help. A beginner might not actually know yet which color goes with what part of speech, but at least she would be alerted by the differning colors. That's just speculation of course! Chris Burke wrote: > > No, it is not yet possible to color the names of nouns and verbs > differently, or to specify colors by locale. -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 23:30:34 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:15:24 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J403beta on a G3 Mac References: Piet de Jong wrote: > The version I am running is (from the "About J" panel") > J release 3.03a for Macintosh Standard Edition > > Does this mean it is not the PPC version? > If not, is the PPC version still downloadable? (that is one that works > with my registration number) I'm not sure exactly when ppc support was introduced. Since your J about box doesn't mention 68k or ppc, then it predates this support. To get a ppc version, you'll have to get J4.02. It will run much faster (certainly more than 5 times faster) than the emulated 68k version. > ****Also, if possible, please fix the problem in J403beta for Windows > where (under the Windows emulator on the Mac). File|Open will not open > a file (Windows reports that J.exe has made an error, in particular a > zero divide, and shuts down J), while opening a previously worked on > file listed at the bottom of the File menu works just fine. I doubt that we can justify the effort to fix this. We don't have a test environment and there would be little interest given that there is a ppc version that will generally run faster and better. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 23:33:05 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:19:24 -0400 From: Brian Bambrough Subject: Jforum: j403: bug and typos I finally downloaded j40304 tonight. Here's what I found: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bug: I tried to use Ctrl F to find text in the .ijx window. I got this error message: error in: jfiw_findtop_button domain error: wd FIWTEXT=: 'smselact;smread' Finding text in the .ijs window works fine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The following are typos that were in previous versions and are still in J403: Project manager lab: ((4) 6 of 9) Standalone application (ctd) Finally, we will build a run-time script. In Project Manager, select Project|Build Options... and change the file extension of the Target File from .ijs to .ijr, so the file will be: user\projects\first\run.ijr The click the Build button. Should be "Then click the Build button." ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help, User Manual, Window Controls, Menus This displayes the text item name, and if selected, the Windows result contains the name item1. Should be "displays" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The main help menu still has an item "User". I found this to be unclear and inconsistent with usage elsewhere. I would prefer "User Manual". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help. Foreign conjunction 9!:2 y Default Displays. The representation(s) to used for default Should be: "The representation(s) to be used for default . . ." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- OpenGL printing (User Manual, Window Driver Command Reference) Printing OpenGL images is not directly supported. However, it is possible to get reasonably good printing of OpenGL images by creating a bitmap RC, drawing to the bitmap, and then printing the bitmap. If the bitmap is not stretched to much to fit the printing area the quality of the printed image is good. Should be: If the bitmap is not stretched too much . . . ---------------------------------------------------------------------- User Manual, Window Controls, Menus To add individual items to the popup menu, displayed when the menu is selected: wd 'menu item1 "item name"' This displayes the text item name, and if selected, the Windows result contains the name item1. Should be "displays" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- OOP Lab: 44 of 70 The following is both line 1 and line 5 Fields data, keys, and sn are defined only in the object. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Grid - low level programming ((8) 19 of 19) glgridinvalidate (ctd) glgridinvalidate 1 - cells changed in subsequent glgridtext and glgridtype commands are marked as invalid. An invalid cell will be repainted when the system has a chance. glgridinvalidate 0 - turns of this mode Should be: glgridinvalidate 0 - turns off this mode ---------------------------------------------------------------------- User Manual, Window Driver Command Reference, gl2 commands 11!:2000+n gllined I j k l linelen spacelen [linelen spacelen ...] - draw dashed line from i,j to k,l. Works only for vertical and horizontal lines. The first i should be lower case. I.e., gllined i j k l linelen spacelen -------------------------------------------------------------- glnoerasebkgnd is not documented in the Windows Driver Command Reference. The only reference to it is in the "Grid Low Level Programming" lab. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) In Help, Index there is "high-school alge". Should be "high-school algebra" ------------------------------------------------------------------ Sometimes it isn't appropriate to color a quote and the text that follows. E.g., in the Lab: Grid Low Level Programming: ((8) 15 of 19) editing (ctd) You can use Alt+Enter to enter multiple lines in an edit box. We'll make a cell higher so you can try entering multiple lines. Because of the attributes that are set, multi-line text should not start with a digit. ) The text: "'ll make a cell higher so you can try entering multiple" is in a different color to the rest of the paragraph ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 23:38:59 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:24:05 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes References: <374447c85184001@blik.skima.is> <007b01bea32d$eb09dae0$3e0114d1@Pcdburke> <3744CE93.DCC949E8@math.umass.edu> Murray Eisenberg wrote: > For user-defined objects, would I assume correctly that the problem is > one of time-of-binding -- that the interpreter simply cannot always know > what part of speech a name is? > > If that's the reason that nouns and verbs cannot be differently colored, > that doesn't preclude, does it, differently coloring primitives (or > user-defined objects whose part of speech is known)? > > For beginners, in my experience, recognizing the different parts of > speech is a major learning difficulty, and coloring could help. A > beginner might not actually know yet which color goes with what part of > speech, but at least she would be alerted by the differning colors. > > That's just speculation of course! You're analysis is 100% correct. Configure|Color already provides what you ask. You can color primitives according to their class. That is, you can already make primitive nouns, verbs, adverbs, and conjunctions different colors. This is done with keywords. You can do lots more with your own custom keywords. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 20 23:49:34 1999 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:32:42 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: j403: bug and typos References: <3744D0BC.FA877C78@worldnet.att.net> Brian Bambrough wrote: > I tried to use Ctrl F to find text in the .ijx window. I got this > error message: > > error in: jfiw_findtop_button > domain error: wd > FIWTEXT=: 'smselact;smread' Ctrl+f works for me in the ijx window. So there is probably some specific situation required. Can you reproduce the problem? What is the simplest sequence of steps from starting J to the problem? Does the form show? Thanks for the list of typos. We'll see if we can't get at least some of them fixed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 00:16:46 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 00:03:48 -0400 From: Brian Bambrough Subject: Re: Jforum: j403: bug and typos References: <3744D0BC.FA877C78@worldnet.att.net> <3744D3DA.2238@interlog.com> Eric; I just retried Ctrl F. I invoked j403, typed in a sentence, and told Ctrl F to find "the" and it worked fine. What I was doing before was flipping back and forth between InfoSelect and J, using the clipboard to copy text. The help window was open most of the time. I ran a ton of labs, very quickly. There were a lot of pbc windows open from the OOP lab. (This shouldn't be a problem - I have 256 MB RAM.) Then I tried Ctrl F and got the error message I reported to you. I realize that this isn't much help to you. Brian Eric Iverson wrote: > Brian Bambrough wrote: > > I tried to use Ctrl F to find text in the .ijx window. I got this > > error message: > > > > error in: jfiw_findtop_button > > domain error: wd > > FIWTEXT=: 'smselact;smread' > > Ctrl+f works for me in the ijx window. So there is probably some > specific situation required. Can you reproduce the problem? What is the > simplest sequence of steps from starting J to the problem? Does the form > show? > > Thanks for the list of typos. We'll see if we can't get at least some of > them fixed. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 02:12:37 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: Closing Bracket Solved Date: Fri, 21 May 99 06:00:45 +0000 > I had used _var rather than -var in 4 lines.......very simple!! > I do find it interesting however that it ran without error for a week before > the message occurred and then shut me down. I am curious how you made _var work /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 04:54:19 1999 From: Baker Stuart Subject: RE: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:20:41 -0000 ... if we can colour by syntax, why not other font alterations/treatments (bold, italic, etc)? - sorry, I can see that's just the sort of suggestion that is SO easy to make and costs considerable effort to implement: are there any colour-blind j programmers out there? Someone also mentioned their difficulty in using debug stops tied to line numbers which never appear in edited object-text. I too spend some time in error-prone line-counting: is there an easier way? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 06:26:08 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <0488C2686254D111A5C70000F847E8C5030DB322@LUSIS_EXCH_1> Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 06:14:24 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: Baker Stuart Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 5:20 AM Subject: RE: Jforum: color shchemes > if we can colour by syntax, why not other font > alterations/treatments (bold, italic, etc)? > > - sorry, I can see that's just the sort of suggestion that is SO > easy to make and costs considerable effort to implement: are there any > colour-blind j programmers out there? Italic is an checkbox in the Edit|Configure|Color dialog. Bold is not supported, because the spacing of bold characters is usually a little wider than for regular characters, so output may not line up properly. > Someone also mentioned their difficulty in using debug stops tied to > line numbers which never appear in edited object-text. I too spend some time > in error-prone line-counting: is there an easier way? J403 helps in a couple of ways. You can use Debug to set stops on specific lines, and the utility dbstopme inside a definition to set stops on all lines after it is executed. For a description, load Debug (Ctrl-K) and read the Help. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 08:36:30 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:25:19 -0400 From: David Ness Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes References: <0488C2686254D111A5C70000F847E8C5030DB322@LUSIS_EXCH_1> Baker Stuart wrote: > > ... > > Someone also mentioned their difficulty in using debug stops tied to > line numbers which never appear in edited object-text. I too spend some time > in error-prone line-counting: is there an easier way? > > What about some (automated) display that would affix the appropriate line numbers (i.e. consistent ones) before displaying... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 12:24:50 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: RE: Jforum: j403 editor Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 19:12:10 +0300 charset="koi8-r" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: This is very valuable comment. The solution for one-click passive scrolling would be unused Ctrl-PgUp/PgDn > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Nikitin > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 20:05 > To: 'forum@jsoftware.com' > Subject: Jforum: j403 editor > > > Does it sound reasonable to swap meanings of the Ctrl+Up/Down (Scroll > screen) and Shift+Ctrl+Up/Down (recall previous line)? > > Recalling the previous line is involved much more often screen > scrolling, so it should be assigned combination with less keys. I don't > even mention that this is closer to previous assignment for prior lines. > > > nsg > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 12:38:34 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: RE: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:31:57 +0300 charset="iso-8859-1" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3744CE93.DCC949E8@math.umass.edu> I have noticed that color hiliting for local definitions does not differ from global definitions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 12:43:15 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: RE: Jforum: j403 editor Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:35:01 -0500 Do you mean those assignments from J7 (for dos)? > -----Original Message----- > From: Oleg Kobchenko [SMTP:gccinc@usa.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 11:12 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: RE: Jforum: j403 editor > > This is very valuable comment. The solution for one-click > passive scrolling would be unused Ctrl-PgUp/PgDn > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 12:50:56 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:18:04 -0400 From: Alain Miville de Ch�ne Subject: Jforum: J4.03 rigkt click bug Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id LAA05635 Here is a nice bug. Right click in a non-maximised ijs or ijx window. You get a menu. Maximise the windaw and do a right click. The offered menu is the File menu! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 12:58:50 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:39:03 -0500 From: Don Guinn Subject: Jforum: Debug lockups J Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I ran the following sequence and got a limit error and couldn't clear it out. I had to restart J. I know, the dbstop is invalid, but it still shouldn't make me have to shut down J. I ran into this in a larger problem and I just copied the results from dbsq rather than retyping and forgot to remove the *:*. I just boiled it down to this to show the problem. This is using J beta 4.03/1999-05-19/02:05 require 'debug' dbstop 'xxx *:*;' dbg'' �limit error: coname � debug_jdebug_ coname$0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 13:12:46 1999 From: "Nichols, Peter" Subject: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:12:34 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Here's one to toss into the discussion... I find in many cases that it is easier to make changes in my forms directly rather than using the form editor. Especially for simple size and position changes on controls. To do this I like to move the xywh numbers into uniform columns. It makes it easy to see alignment errors. Also I put blank lines between logical sections of the screen I'm designing, like before a group box containing related controls. But when I exit the form editor it writes out all the lines in my code again and I lose the easy to read lined up columns and blank lines. Could we get some optional 'pretty print' for our forms? Lining up the xywh's and perhaps the name & type of controls as well as preserving blank lines? Thanks, Peter Nichols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 13:26:22 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:35:02 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes References: <0488C2686254D111A5C70000F847E8C5030DB322@LUSIS_EXCH_1> That's an thought, given that the Vocabulary page uses different faces to distinguish different parts of speech. Actually, I never liked the differing face treatment in the printed, and on-screen copy of, the Vocabulary. I much would have preferred color -- I do not have any form of color-blindness -- but obviously that was out of the question for printing the manuals. Taking this to the nth degree: one colors the (names of the) primitives in the on-screen Vocabulary using the same scheme as one is using in editor windows ;) Baker Stuart wrote: > > ... if we can colour by syntax, why not other font > alterations/treatments (bold, italic, etc)? > -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 13:33:59 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: RE: Jforum: color shchemes Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:05:26 +0300 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEA3B4.80EEB180" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002301bea372$d4e92140$320114d1@Pcdburke> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEA3B4.80EEB180 charset="iso-8859-1" I believe it's not a good reason at all. What if one selects Arial for my J font which does not line up at all. It's the use's decision. Why in many other IDEs, HTMLers, etc. bold in Courier works fine? Courier is the most feasible font, though not best for uniweight layout. But with bold and underline it would gain really new perspective. BTW, I attached a picture which shows that Courier draws in bold without the shift problem. Courier, worse so ISIJ, Lucida, etc, which are thin line fonts (unlike Fixedsys or 'Proper' Terminal) are very difficult to get many distinguished color combinations for. E.g. blue easily mixes up with cold shades of red (magenta), yellow with light shades of green, which easily loose readability on dark because of thinness of the font. I tried to adjust some useful color combinations, but very soon the text starts to look like schizophrenic nightmare. Colors are good, for 2-3 different uses only. However that would be nicely complemented by couple of weight/decoration font variants. Underline does not have to do with lining up whatsoever. So why not include it? Frankly out of all other options Italic is estheatically the ugliest -- on screen. Speaking about fonts. If the desktop option is Small Fonts, J system understands Courier New 11 size as 9 size, and so on. Is there any reason for that. With every new version of J I first check this, but it never gets adjusted. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Chris Burke > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 13:14 > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Baker Stuart > To: > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 5:20 AM > Subject: RE: Jforum: color shchemes > > > > if we can colour by syntax, why not other font > > alterations/treatments (bold, italic, etc)? > > > > - sorry, I can see that's just the sort of suggestion that is SO > > easy to make and costs considerable effort to implement: are there > any > > colour-blind j programmers out there? > > Italic is an checkbox in the Edit|Configure|Color dialog. > > Bold is not supported, because the spacing of bold characters is > usually a little wider than for regular characters, so output may not > line up properly. 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Subject: Re: Jforum: Debug lockups J References: <374561F7.640617CD@hal-pc.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Don Guinn wrote: > I ran the following sequence and got a limit error and couldn't clear it > out. I had to restart J. I know, the dbstop is invalid, but it still > shouldn't make me have to shut down J. I ran into this in a larger > problem and I just copied the results from dbsq rather than retyping and > forgot to remove the *:*. I just boiled it down to this to show the > problem. > > This is using J beta 4.03/1999-05-19/02:05 > > require 'debug' > dbstop 'xxx *:*;' > dbg'' > �limit error: coname > � debug_jdebug_ coname$0 This is a nasty problem that I'm afraid won't get fixed in this release. The limit error is because the call stack is full. You are suspended with a stack so full that there isn't room for a stack entry for the dbr call to clear the stack. You can recover from this without shutting down J by using 13!:0 instead of dbr as this does not require a new stack entry. That is: 13!:0 [ 0 NB. clear stack that has hit the limit We will add this to the debug documentation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 14:11:50 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 19:59:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: Martin Neitzel Subject: RE: Jforum: color shchemes > ... 'Proper' Terminal [font] Speaking of this: I must admit that I consider this Classic IBM Terminal font in its orginal form (i.e. the pixel set as introduced with the original 8088 PeeCees, the Monochrome Display Adaptor and the loooong afterglowing green phosphor monitors) to be the most beautiful screen font ever made. I'm refering to the slightly knobbly font with the serifs. Unfortunately, when I set make "Terminal 9" my default font in J, I will get it sometimes successfully. There were 2 possible problems occuring: (1) Instead of the knobbly font, I'd get an ugly, sans serif, linear font. This appears to be some problem with Windows not with J: Other Windows applications like the DOS box or the Hyperterm have the same flaky behaviour. (2) In earlier releases (3.x, 4.01, cannot say right now about about 4.02/4.03), J would sometimes switch to the font, but use wrong font metrics. Erasing characters backwards would cause a garbled display. This could well be fixed now. I'm using two different releases of Windows95, the German version each time. Since that environment is basically not reproducible for the ISI guys in Toronto and very erratic here, I'd be very happy about reports by others how at least to reproduce the problem deterministically. The behaviour is very erratic and I guess dependent on the previous history of font caching and font scaling. Martin Neitzel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 14:27:53 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:18:12 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: color shchemes References: <000a01bea39b$5ba17980$0801a8c0@chief.spin.kharkov.ua> Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > [lots of good ideas about fonts and colors] I agree that bold would be nice. The problem is not 'lining up' in a visual sense for a human reader, but rather the work required to manage things like mouse selections. This is quite simple with text in a single, fixed pitch font. It gets much more complicated with different char widths. The editor only works properly if every character has the same width. We ran the first versions of the editor with bold support. Most ttf fonts create bold by making the char a pixel or so wider. This confuses the editor and is unworkable. The only common font that I could find that doesn't do this is Courier New. And even it makes the chars wider in larger sizes. So, I decided to not support bold in this release. I will look at this again for a future release as I agree it would be nice. In running experiments from your comments I discovered that I had inadvertently ignored a choice of bold for the editor font. There is no width problem if everything is bold, and it might work better with some of the richer color schemes. I will reenable the ability to specify bold for the session font. Your suggestion of underline is interesting. In a few quick examples it looks pretty good for some things. I'll consider adding it to the smcolor command and see if Chris can add it to the color form. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 16:17:33 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:01:24 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: j403 editor References: The 5th version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a05.exe Minor fixes. 13!:13 value error problem fixed. Bold fonts allowed in editor (everything bold, might work better with colors) Underline font option supported in smcolor. Underline is not yet supported in Configure|Color. You can experiment with it: wd'smcolor 27 255 0 0 underline' NB. underline global assignment names Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 16:32:31 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:23:06 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECB@SPRDALLAS2> I second this proposal. I edit forms by hand a lot too. Henry Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Nichols, Peter > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 10:13 > To: 'forum@jsoftware.com' > Subject: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code > > > Here's one to toss into the discussion... > > I find in many cases that it is easier to make changes in my > forms directly > rather than using the form editor. Especially for simple size > and position > changes on controls. To do this I like to move the xywh numbers into > uniform columns. It makes it easy to see alignment errors. Also I put > blank lines between logical sections of the screen I'm designing, like > before a group box containing related controls. But when I exit the form > editor it writes out all the lines in my code again and I lose the easy to > read lined up columns and blank lines. Could we get some optional 'pretty > print' for our forms? Lining up the xywh's and perhaps the name & type of > controls as well as preserving blank lines? > > Thanks, > Peter Nichols > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 17:02:38 1999 Date: 21 May 99 12:57:52 -0800 Subject: Jforum: Graphics exporting From: "Piet de Jong" X-Fontfamily: Geneva X-Fontsize: 12 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there any way to export graphics (eg postscript, jpeg ). What I would like to do is export plots so I can incorporate them into wordprocesing documents. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 17:06:58 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:59:12 -0400 From: Alain Miville de =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ch=EAne?= Subject: Jforum: J4.03 debug in try. catch. charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id RAA13437 I can't believe I have to go through this again. Last time we managed to have debug not stop on errors in try. catch. Now it does. Geezz.. try. catch. is designed to catch errors. I use it all the time. I EXPECT errors in try. some of the time. That's why I use the construct. Could you please put it back as it was before OR offer a switch to turn it on or off. Pleease. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 17:16:06 1999 From: "HARRIS,BILL (HP-LakeStevens,ex1)" Subject: RE: Jforum: Graphics exporting Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:08:02 -0600 charset="iso-8859-1" The easy answer: yes, as far back as 3.05 and before (at least under Windows). Look for creating wmf files. Bill -- Bill Harris Year 2000 Program Office mailto: bill_harris@am.exch.hp.com Hewlett-Packard Company phone: (425) 335-2200 M/S 330C fax: (425) 335-2483 8600 Soper Hill Road web: http://hpweb.lsid.hp.com:8080/~billh/ Everett, WA 98205-1298 -----Original Message----- From: Piet de Jong [mailto:piet.dejong@commerce.ubc.ca] Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 1:58 PM Subject: Jforum: Graphics exporting Is there any way to export graphics (eg postscript, jpeg ). What I would like to do is export plots so I can incorporate them into wordprocesing documents. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 17:31:23 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:23:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nichols, Peter" Subject: Jforum: Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:20:41 -0500 Small problem. Jopen is still not declared in jfiles. Peter Nichols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 17:50:34 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:39:18 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECB@SPRDALLAS2> Nichols, Peter wrote: (and seconded by Henry Rich) > I find in many cases that it is easier to make changes in my forms directly > rather than using the form editor. Especially for simple size and position > changes on controls. To do this I like to move the xywh numbers into > uniform columns. It makes it easy to see alignment errors. Also I put > blank lines between logical sections of the screen I'm designing, like > before a group box containing related controls. But when I exit the form > editor it writes out all the lines in my code again and I lose the easy to > read lined up columns and blank lines. Could we get some optional 'pretty > print' for our forms? Lining up the xywh's and perhaps the name & type of > controls as well as preserving blank lines? And here I thought I was the only one who edited form definitions by hand. It was something I sort of felt I should keep secret. Using a few keystrokes when a big visual tool would only take slightly longer seems like heresy. At least I have the excuse of having been editing them since before there was a visual editor. The form editor is very understanding in reading form defintions, but is quite rigid in how it writes them. This is implemented in C and since people's taste in things such as pretty are often at odds, I am not willing to even consider adding something like this in the form editor. However, this could easily be done by a nice little tool written in J. It could pretty up the form definition in an open script in myriad ways to suit everyone. Sounds like a great chance for some ambitious user to make a nice contribution to the cause of J programmers everywhere! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 18:19:50 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: RE: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:12:20 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Iverson [SMTP:eiverson@interlog.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 16:39 > > The form editor is very understanding in reading form defintions, but > is > quite rigid in how it writes them. This is implemented in C and since > people's taste in things such as pretty are often at odds, I am not > willing to even consider adding something like this in the form > editor. > Another useful line that does not supported by form editor is setfont xxxxx "Courier New" 12; It simply drop it down from form definition. Certainly, one can put this into form_run handler, or put it into final version of the form and than (to prevent its unintentional deletion by form editor) move line rem form end; to the very beginning of the noun. But this is something that in russian is called 'manual sunrize'. nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 18:26:09 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:50:04 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 rigkt click bug References: <199905210918_MC2-769D-C0C0@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > Here is a nice bug. Right click in a non-maximised ijs or ijx window. You > get a menu. Maximise the windaw and do a right click. The offered menu is > the File menu! Curious bug. Fixed in the next beta. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 18:26:25 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:48:40 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 debug in try. catch. References: <199905211659_MC2-76A5-271D@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > I can't believe I have to go through this again. Last time we managed to > have debug not stop on errors in try. catch. Now it does. Geezz.. > > try. catch. is designed to catch errors. I use it all the time. I EXPECT > errors in try. some of the time. That's why I use the construct. Could you > please put it back as it was before OR offer a switch to turn it on or off. > Pleease. Errors in try are ignored and execution continues in catch regardless of the debug state. The change with this release is that a stop error (explicitly requested by dbss) is honoured and will suspend execution in the try block. This seems both useful and harmless to your concerns. Have you observed otherwise? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 18:37:35 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:28:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Olivier Lefevre Subject: RE: Jforum: Selling/introducing J/APL In-Reply-To: This is somewhat off-topic for a J forum but since several readers enquired... K was discarded mostly on the ground that it was costing too much (a valid complaint, IMO; you can see current prices on the Kx web site and it used to cost even more) and for a number of political reasons that I do not fully understand and that I probably couldn't expatiate about in a public forum even if I did. If you wanted to really understand what happened, you would have to consider 3 kinds of factors: the personality of the "K group" people (their supporters included), the IT and business cultures of Morgan Stanley (where all the key K people came from) and the culture and politics of the "old UBS" (the company now called UBS is really SBC). I simply do not have enough information to perform such a full autopsy, at least not without badly botching the corpse. One thing is sure, however: the people behind K at UBS did a good job at selling K to the the top brass (even securing for Arthur Whitney an extravagant contract whereby he kept ownership of K even though it was largely developed at and for UBS) but were hugely impopular with many developers and with key managers (the trading desk managers that the K group was supporting), both at the New York site and abroad. Relations were particularly frayed with London, an unwise state of affairs since the investment banking arm of the old UBS (like Warburg Dillon Read today) was headquartered in London and run from there, not from New York or Zurich, where their backers were. They also made the mistake of remaining aggressively Unix-centric at a time when the bank was moving to NT in a big way and desk managers were clamoring for an NT version of all their apps. What is now Kx has since swung to the other extreme (most of the GUI development is now done for the NT version, I understand, with the Unix versions being sold as back-end -- i.e., server -- engines: very much the J situation) but the harm was done. An early NT version was finally delivered to UBS (can't remember the precise timing) but never used. Finally, the whole notion of K as an in-house language was probably bunk (i.e., too hard to justify/pull off). Yes, I know that's how A+ works at MS but, as I implied above, what works at MS may not work elsewhere. As an ordinary 3rd-party software supplier, Kx almost certainly has an easier time selling itself now; it is also less vulnerable to the vagaries of its relationship with a unique client. In any case, when UBS was merged with (actually steamrolled by) SBC, it was decided not to cherry pick but to adopt wholesale the IT infrastructure of one or the other merger company. In the swiss retail operation the "old UBS" prevailed but elsewhere it was decided to standardize on the SBC infrastructure, which means K would probably have been discarded at that point anyway, like nearly everything UBS... As for where things stand now, everything has been discarded, although some analytics are being rewritten (mostly by me!) and recycled, either as Java or C++ apps. I don't think one should wildly extrapolate from the sad story of K at UBS because (IMHO) a number of gross political mistakes were made but it certainly serves as a counterexample to the fiction that all you need to succeed is high-level backing. In the case of K, the top-level backing they enjoyed (up into the office of a counsellor to the UBS CEO in Zurich, also an Iverson, incidentally) actually hurt them, first because the mere notion that they had this kind of access rankled nearly everyone else and second because (or so I suspect) it made them underestimate the necessity (and the difficulty!) of winning over the layers standing between them and the top brass. -- O.L. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 19:04:16 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:56:48 -0400 From: Alain Miville de =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ch=EAne?= Subject: RE: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id SAA01562 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >Lining up the xywh's and perhaps the name & type of > controls as well as preserving blank lines?< That would be nice. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 21 21:47:40 1999 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 20:37:08 -0500 From: Peter Nichols Subject: Re: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECB@SPRDALLAS2> <3745D286.53EC@interlog.com> Eric Iverson wrote: > > Nichols, Peter wrote: (and seconded by Henry Rich) > > I find in many cases that it is easier to make changes in my forms directly > > rather than using the form editor. Especially for simple size and position > > changes on controls. To do this I like to move the xywh numbers into > > uniform columns. It makes it easy to see alignment errors. Also I put > > blank lines between logical sections of the screen I'm designing, like > > before a group box containing related controls. But when I exit the form > > editor it writes out all the lines in my code again and I lose the easy to > > read lined up columns and blank lines. Could we get some optional 'pretty > > print' for our forms? Lining up the xywh's and perhaps the name & type of > > controls as well as preserving blank lines? > > The form editor is very understanding in reading form defintions, but is > quite rigid in how it writes them. This is implemented in C and since > people's taste in things such as pretty are often at odds, I am not > willing to even consider adding something like this in the form editor. Eric, Et Al, Would it be possible to leave off the pretty print idea? Having come to my senses, I realize that with all the best intentions, agreement on "pretty" would be difficult. However, if the C code could just preserve the blank lines and leave the spaces in the xywh numbers, even if digits got inserted or deleted; I would very happy. Is this option more doable? Peter Nichols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 04:41:49 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: RE: Jforum: j403 editor Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 11:31:40 +0300 charset="koi8-r" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Exactly, why not continue traditionally good practices. And I believe it's not only in J7, some APLs should have that too. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Nikitin > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 19:35 > To: 'forum@jsoftware.com' > Subject: RE: Jforum: j403 editor > > > Do you mean those assignments from J7 (for dos)? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Oleg Kobchenko [SMTP:gccinc@usa.net] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 11:12 > > To: forum@jsoftware.com > > Subject: RE: Jforum: j403 editor > > > > This is very valuable comment. The solution for one-click > > passive scrolling would be unused Ctrl-PgUp/PgDn > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 05:55:33 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 12:46:40 +0300 From: Oleg Kobchenko Organization: GCC Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Graphics exporting References: To export bitmap graphics there are two ways: 1. Alt+Printscreen then paste to your favorite graphics editor 2. use glsavebmp the appropriate isigraph control then paste to your favorite graphics editor To export vector graphics there are two ways: - use glsave the appropriate isigraph control then paste to your favorite vector editor (Xara, Corel Draw, etc) - then use WMF2EPS or so from CTAN to convert the graphics from WMF to EPS. I tried the last one. It works fine. However the estheatical result of Courier font on the plot's output is much inferior to the results you get with more PS oriented systems. cf METAPOST for TeX. In general, I believe that having the 'plot' package is one of the major breakthroughs in J, making it truely powerful for scientific, calculation researchers, professionals. It's great for screen work. A natural extension would be to have this screen part as a previewer and with a single mouse click convert the result to an importable vector/hi-res bitmap image for printing. Piet de Jong wrote: > > Is there any way to export graphics (eg postscript, jpeg ). What I would like to do is export plots so I can incorporate them into wordprocesing documents. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 05:58:44 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECE@SPRDALLAS2> Subject: Re: Jforum: Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:20:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 05:47:18 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Do you mean that jopen is not defined in the z locale? This has always been true. However, it is defined with the rest of the j component files in the jfiles locale. Use jopen_jfiles_, or if you wish, assign this to jopen. ----- Original Message ----- From: Nichols, Peter Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 5:23 PM Subject: Jforum: Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:20:41 -0500 > Small problem. Jopen is still not declared in jfiles. > > Peter Nichols > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 07:29:08 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 06:14:48 -0500 From: Don Guinn Subject: Re: Jforum: Debug lockups J References: <374561F7.640617CD@hal-pc.org> <37459D2E.26A8@interlog.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I tried 13!:0[0 and it didn't seem to work, but restarting J was pretty quick anyway. I'm just glad that you all are getting back to working on debug. Don Eric Iverson wrote: > Don Guinn wrote: > > I ran the following sequence and got a limit error and couldn't clear it > > out. I had to restart J. I know, the dbstop is invalid, but it still > > shouldn't make me have to shut down J. I ran into this in a larger > > problem and I just copied the results from dbsq rather than retyping and > > forgot to remove the *:*. I just boiled it down to this to show the > > problem. > > > > This is using J beta 4.03/1999-05-19/02:05 > > > > require 'debug' > > dbstop 'xxx *:*;' > > dbg'' > > �limit error: coname > > � debug_jdebug_ coname$0 > > This is a nasty problem that I'm afraid won't get fixed in this release. > The limit error is because the call stack is full. You are suspended > with a stack so full that there isn't room for a stack entry for the dbr > call to clear the stack. > > You can recover from this without shutting down J by using 13!:0 instead > of dbr as this does not require a new stack entry. That is: > 13!:0 [ 0 NB. clear stack that has hit the limit > > We will add this to the debug documentation. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 08:51:57 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 07:39:24 -0500 From: Don Guinn Subject: Jforum: Debug hang The following script causes debug to hang on the first line of sock_handler_ptest_. Pressing run in the debug window causes the error shown below the load. It looks like everything has stops set although dbsq doesn't show that to be the case. Script 'c:\j403beta\user\ptest.ijs' -------------- require 'socket debug' go =: 3 : 0 socket_handler=:sock_handler_ptest_ hostaddress=:>{:sdcheck sdgethostbyname 'localhost' sdcheck sdreset'' coreset'' p=:conew 'ptest' dbg 1 dbstop'sock_handler_ptest_ sock_handler socket_handler_base_ go_base_' create__p'' connectsocket=:sdcheck sdsocket'' sdcheck sdconnect connectsocket;AF_INET;hostaddress;800 ) coclass'ptest' create=:3 : 0 socket=:sdcheck sdsocket'' sdcheck sdasync socket sdcheck sdbind socket;AF_INET;'';800 sdcheck sdlisten socket,2 ) test=: 3 : 'y.' NB. test/demo method destroy=:codestroy sock_handler=: 3 : 0 'read write error'=:y=.sdcheck sdselect'' try. x=.read;write;error catch. mb ":y end. rwe ) go_base_'' End of script ------------------------- load'c:\j403beta\user\ptest.ijs' NB. Pressed run at this point. |stop: coname | debug_jdebug_ coname$0 dbstack'' |stop: dbstack | dbstack'' (1 1 1 1 0 0 1 1&#"1)13!:13'' +-------------------+--+-+-+--+---------------+ |sock_handler_ptest_|18|1|3|++|+--+----------+| | | | | |||||y |+---+---++|| | | | | |++|| ||120|124|||| | | | | | || |+---+---++|| | | | | | |+--+----------+| | | | | | ||y.| || | | | | | |+--+----------+| +-------------------+--+-+-+--+---------------+ |socket_handler |0 |0|3|++| | | | | | |||| | | | | | |++| | +-------------------+--+-+-+--+---------------+ 13!:2'' go_base_ *:*;sock_handler *:*;sock_handler_ptest_ *:*;socket_handler_base_ *:*; -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 09:02:47 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECB@SPRDALLAS2> Subject: Re: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:52:36 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Here is a first go at a form pretty printer. We can include this in the Project Manager script pretty printer. To experiment, download the following, unzip into your J403 beta directory, load J, and enter: load 'ppform.ijs' Try the experiment. http://www.jsoftware.com/source/ppform.zip Typical output (line-wrapping courtesy of my email editor): CFVIEW=: 0 : 0 pc cfview closeok;pn "Configure View"; xywh 7 12 21 10;cc v0 static ;cn "Font:"; xywh 24 11 110 11;cc smfont edit ws_border es_autohscroll; xywh 24 24 34 11;cc vansi radiobutton ;cn "Ansi"; xywh 63 24 34 11;cc voem radiobutton group;cn "OEM"; xywh 102 24 34 11;cc vdefault radiobutton group;cn "Default"; xywh 140 10 34 11;cc browse button ;cn "&Browse"; xywh 7 42 166 53;cc v1 groupbox ;cn "Display Form"; xywh 12 51 54 11;cc linear checkbox ;cn "&Linear"; xywh 12 61 54 11;cc box checkbox group;cn "Bo&x"; xywh 12 71 54 11;cc tree checkbox group;cn "&Tree"; xywh 12 81 54 11;cc parens checkbox group;cn "&Parens"; xywh 74 51 97 11;cc multi checkbox ;cn "Allow &Multiple Selections"; xywh 7 104 86 38;cc v3 groupbox ;cn "Box Chars and Positioning"; xywh 14 113 38 11;cc linedraw radiobutton ;cn "Li&nedraw"; xywh 14 124 38 11;cc ascii radiobutton group;cn "&Ascii"; xywh 113 107 59 11;cc statusbar checkbox ;cn "&Show Status Bar"; xywh 62 115 20 20;cc g isigraph ; pas 6 6;pcenter; rem form end; ) ----- Original Message ----- From: Nichols, Peter Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 10:12 AM Subject: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code > Here's one to toss into the discussion... > > I find in many cases that it is easier to make changes in my forms directly > rather than using the form editor. Especially for simple size and position > changes on controls. To do this I like to move the xywh numbers into > uniform columns. It makes it easy to see alignment errors. Also I put > blank lines between logical sections of the screen I'm designing, like > before a group box containing related controls. But when I exit the form > editor it writes out all the lines in my code again and I lose the easy to > read lined up columns and blank lines. Could we get some optional 'pretty > print' for our forms? Lining up the xywh's and perhaps the name & type of > controls as well as preserving blank lines? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 12:23:30 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:40:29 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Re: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code In-Reply-To: <001801bea452$02dd8ca0$4e0114d1@Pcdburke> References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECB@SPRDALLAS2> Fine. Can you do also better looking menu definitions? This kind of pertty printing is important when you print code for documentation. Anssi At 08:52 22.5.1999 -0400, you wrote: >Here is a first go at a form pretty printer. We can include this in >the Project Manager script pretty printer. > >To experiment, download the following, unzip into your J403 beta >directory, load J, and enter: > > load 'ppform.ijs' > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 13:53:07 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:44:43 -0700 From: gordon@island.net (Ken Ian Gordon) Subject: Re: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code Even better is not typing the same type of code over and over for another form associated with another table or view (of which there are tens or hundreds in any org.,). An alternative for many cases is to write code to lay out the form automatically according to a set of rules. Buttons, labels, edit areas, drop down lists, just represent a real estate problem on the screen - a much smaller problem than a multi layer PC board. You can even give the user menu options to change the prefered layout pattern according to a different set of rules or to display only specific fields. Furthermore, you can tie the form to meta data in a dynamic dictionary ... Given that J is interpretive, auto code generation for forms layout at run time is one of the benefits. regards kig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 14:53:43 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 14:43:18 -0400 From: Alain Miville de =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ch=EAne?= Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 debug in try. catch. charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id OAA00325 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >Have you observed otherwise?< Yes I have. Just dbr 1 and it stopped on error found in a try. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 15:05:49 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 14:52:54 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 debug in try. catch. References: <199905221443_MC2-76B3-59D1@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alain Miville de Ch�ne wrote: > >Have you observed otherwise?< > > Yes I have. Just dbr 1 and it stopped on error found in a try. The following simple example works properly. start J load'debug' f=: 3 : 'try. a.+1 catch. 2 end.' dbr 1 f'' 2 Please show me the simplest possible counter example. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 15:14:16 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: J4.03 debug in try. catch. Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:02:30 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199905221443_MC2-76B3-59D1@compuserve.com> I have had troubles with try./catch. and :: in the past (Roger promptly fixed them), and I was left with the impression that each verb has some responsibility for implementing it properly. So, if there is a problem, it's probably not a general problem, but one specific to the verb; so you need to be specific in your trouble report. Henry Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Alain Miville de > Ch�ne > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 14:43 > To: INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com > Subject: Re: Jforum: J4.03 debug in try. catch. > > > Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com > >Have you observed otherwise?< > > Yes I have. Just dbr 1 and it stopped on error found in a try. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 18:35:54 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:25:34 -0500 From: Peter Nichols Subject: Re: Jforum: Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:20:41 -0500 References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECE@SPRDALLAS2> <003e01bea438$1dc92d40$180114d1@Pcdburke> Chris Burke wrote: > Do you mean that jopen is not defined in the z locale? This has always > been true. > > However, it is defined with the rest of the j component files in the > jfiles locale. Use jopen_jfiles_, or if you wish, assign this to > jopen. Why is it not assigned to jopen like the other jfile functions? Peter Nichols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 18:59:16 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:49:58 -0500 From: Peter Nichols Subject: Re: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECB@SPRDALLAS2> <001801bea452$02dd8ca0$4e0114d1@Pcdburke> Chris Burke wrote: > > Here is a first go at a form pretty printer. We can include this in > the Project Manager script pretty printer. > > pc cfview closeok;pn "Configure View"; > xywh 7 12 21 10;cc v0 static ;cn "Font:"; Yes! I love it. One tiny quibble, could you put the semicolon directly after static? And also Anssi's suggestion of sprucing up menues is good too. Thanks Chris, I really appreciate this. Peter Nichols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 22 21:50:54 1999 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:40:35 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (6th version) The 6th version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a06.exe Several small fixes and changes. Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 23 17:59:03 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECE@SPRDALLAS2> <003e01bea438$1dc92d40$180114d1@Pcdburke> <37472EDE.47DD@airmail.net> Subject: Re: Jforum: Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:20:41 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:49:00 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" > Why is it not assigned to jopen like the other jfile functions? Because jopen is not required when using component files. In general, cover functions in the z locale are created only when necessary. This helps keep the number of definitions in z to a minimum. Of course, if you use jopen and jclose a lot, you are free to make the definitions yourself. ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Nichols Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:20:41 -0500 > Chris Burke wrote: > > Do you mean that jopen is not defined in the z locale? This has always > > been true. > > > > However, it is defined with the rest of the j component files in the > > jfiles locale. Use jopen_jfiles_, or if you wish, assign this to > > jopen. > > Why is it not assigned to jopen like the other jfile functions? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 23 20:40:12 1999 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:30:10 -0500 From: Peter Nichols Subject: Re: Jforum: Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:20:41 -0500 References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECE@SPRDALLAS2> <003e01bea438$1dc92d40$180114d1@Pcdburke> <37472EDE.47DD@airmail.net> <001801bea566$12cca000$560114d1@Pcdburke> Chris Burke wrote: > > > Why is it not assigned to jopen like the other jfile functions? > > Because jopen is not required when using component files. > > In general, cover functions in the z locale are created only when > necessary. This helps keep the number of definitions in z to a > minimum. > Ok, I thought that jopen had to be used to open the file you were reading. But I just tried it and you're right. You can just start reading. Thanks Chris. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 23 20:41:44 1999 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:32:16 -0500 From: Peter Nichols Subject: Re: Jforum: Form Editor's rewriting of code References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177ECB@SPRDALLAS2> <001801bea452$02dd8ca0$4e0114d1@Pcdburke> <37473496.3B7B@airmail.net> > Chris Burke wrote: > > > > Here is a first go at a form pretty printer. We can include this in > > the Project Manager script pretty printer. I hope this is soon enough to get it into the new release. It will sure make my life easier. Peter Nichols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 23 23:06:30 1999 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 22:55:06 -0400 From: Brian Bambrough Subject: Jforum: Typos Eric; Recently I posted a list of typos. You responded: > Thanks for the list of typos. We'll see if we can't get at least > some of them fixed. Most of the typos are minor. They should be fixed, but it's not too big a deal if they aren't. I checked what I consider to be the most important problem and it has not been fixed. I want to give you my reasons why I think that's it's important that it be addressed. This is the one where text after a quote is colored when it isn't appropriate. Some people have suggested that J looks like shareware. I disagree with this. J is focussed on functionality. The look and feel are not flashy, but they are adequate. The one area where J looks unfinished is the above. Here's another example of it from the OOP lab: (1 of 70) Overview This lab is about Object Oriented Programming. It covers OOP ideas and terminology and shows how to do it. ) (2 of 70) Overview (ctd) Lab 'Locales' is a prerequisite. However, if you ignore details you can jump right in, and get back to it later. Lab 'Grid Examples' has OOP examples and should be done after this lab. ) (3 of 70) What is OOP? OOP is modular programming. Building an application from scratch as a monolith is a recipe for failure. It is better to build and test small modules, and then combine them to build the application. It's best when you can use existing modules with a few new modules to build new applications. ) Supposing I was a suit (as I have been). A programmer has strongly recommended to me that the company use J. So, I sit down with J to evaluate it. For sure I'm going to run a couple of labs. Suppose I start with the OOP lab, and I see the three panels above. Having "Locales" and "Grid Examples" in a different color to the rest of the text seems eccentric to me but, ok, I can live with it. But having "'s best when you can use existing modules with a few new" in a different color is clearly wrong. My reaction would be "gee, if there's big problems with something as simple as putting text on the screen, how many problems must there be in the core language?" And I would mandate that my company not use J. If you want to get a feel for for how this kind of thing looks to an outsider, take a long look at the Lingo Allegro web site. Browse through a bunch of the pages. You will see a ton of spelling errors. What would your reaction be if you were a suit evaluating whether to hire them? "These guys want to install high tech solutions in my company, but they don't know how to use a spell checker? I think not." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 01:57:25 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: Typos Date: Mon, 24 May 99 05:50:25 +0000 Brian Bambrough wites: > If you want to get a feel for for how this kind of thing looks to an > outsider, take a long look at the Lingo Allegro web site. Browse > through a bunch of the pages. You will see a ton of spelling errors. You can probably always find spelling errors and faults if that is what you are after. Rather than pointing at what is wrong I usually like more to see suggestions about how individual items can be made better. Sweeping generalizations are never very productive nor leed to any positive reactions. Gradual improvements always lead to big improvements in the long run. J has come a long way with very little resources that way. I find that noting something that may need to be improved and making a suggestion on how it can be made better is by far the most effective way of getting things done. I have sometimes had to wait quite a long time for some of my suggestions but most of them do appear. It is very rewarding to see how the interest in J has grown over the years and there are a lot of things in J now that none of us would have dreamt were possible. The colouring experiment has many side effects and will cause a lot of confusion but it also has a lot of positive sides. I for one am in favour of living with some of the strange effects of the colouring for a while and gradually work them away. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 09:30:13 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:06:30 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Typos References: <3748BF8A.E825FE04@worldnet.att.net> Brian Bambrough wrote: > [dislikes unmatched quote coloring in labs] I agree. I hated this when I first saw it and I hate it even more with time. I've thought about it and couldn't figure out what to do. When should it be colored and when not? The current color logic is simple and fast by restricting the rules to the context of a single line. The temptation for something like the labs is to maintain state information over all lines so that you can know things such as, this unmatched quote is in a lab section and shouldn't be colored. I really don't want to add that complexity. For one thing, with a very large file the editor would become noticably sluggish as it has to scan the entire file on every keystroke! But, your message has given me an idea that I will try out. The coloring of unmatched quotes is disturbing in text but quite useful for code. The question is how to distinguish without too much work. The solution doesn't have to be %100 (I don't think it can be), but it should work most of the time, particularly for novices and suits. What I'm going to try on an experimental basis is to color unmatched quotes only if the caret is on the line. This may be a good idea or a lousy one. I think the only way to tell is to let the forum try it for a few days and get feedback. I'll try to do that today. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 10:05:42 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: RE: Jforum: Typos Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:54:04 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Iverson [SMTP:eiverson@interlog.com] > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 08:07 > > Brian Bambrough wrote: > > [dislikes unmatched quote coloring in labs] > > I agree. I hated this when I first saw it and I hate it even more with > time. I've thought about it and couldn't figure out what to do. When > should it be colored and when not? > Here are usages of apostrophe from your message: I've doesn't shouldn't don't I'm Rule: if ' sign is between two alphabetic characters and to the left or to the right of ' sign there is only one alphabetic character then this position is not unclosed quote. > The current color logic is simple and fast by restricting the rules to > the context of a single line. The temptation for something like the > labs > is to maintain state information over all lines so that you can know > things such as, this unmatched quote is in a lab section and shouldn't > be colored. I really don't want to add that complexity. For one thing, > with a very large file the editor would become noticably sluggish as > it > has to scan the entire file on every keystroke! > > But, your message has given me an idea that I will try out. > > The coloring of unmatched quotes is disturbing in text but quite > useful > for code. The question is how to distinguish without too much work. > The > solution doesn't have to be %100 (I don't think it can be), but it > should work most of the time, particularly for novices and suits. > > What I'm going to try on an experimental basis is to color unmatched > quotes only if the caret is on the line. This may be a good idea or a > lousy one. I think the only way to tell is to let the forum try it for > a > few days and get feedback. I'll try to do that today. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 10:15:18 1999 X-Lotus-FromDomain: JPMORGAN@SMTP From: "Jacob Moskowitz" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:36:00 -0400 Subject: RE: Jforum: color schemes (Was: "color shchemes" Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline When this problem occurred in the past, I had to first open an MS-DOS app and deliberately set the font to Terminal 6 (my personal fave) Only then did it become available to GUI Windows apps. Since I used X-Tree (& later Z-Tree) a lot, I set it to auto-start. Oddly enough, the font is always available in NT. neitzel@gaertner.de on 05/21/99 01:59:58 PM Please respond to forum@jsoftware.com cc: (bcc: Jacob Moskowitz) Subject: RE: Jforum: color shchemes > ... 'Proper' Terminal [font] Speaking of this: I must admit that I consider this Classic IBM Terminal font in its orginal form (i.e. the pixel set as introduced with the original 8088 PeeCees, the Monochrome Display Adaptor and the loooong afterglowing green phosphor monitors) to be the most beautiful screen font ever made. I'm refering to the slightly knobbly font with the serifs. Unfortunately, when I set make "Terminal 9" my default font in J, I will get it sometimes successfully. There were 2 possible problems occuring: (1) Instead of the knobbly font, I'd get an ugly, sans serif, linear font. This appears to be some problem with Windows not with J: Other Windows applications like the DOS box or the Hyperterm have the same flaky behaviour. (2) In earlier releases (3.x, 4.01, cannot say right now about about 4.02/4.03), J would sometimes switch to the font, but use wrong font metrics. Erasing characters backwards would cause a garbled display. This could well be fixed now. I'm using two different releases of Windows95, the German version each time. Since that environment is basically not reproducible for the ISI guys in Toronto and very erratic here, I'd be very happy about reports by others how at least to reproduce the problem deterministically. The behaviour is very erratic and I guess dependent on the previous history of font caching and font scaling. Martin Neitzel --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any transaction, unless specifically agreed otherwise. All market prices, data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan & Co. Incorporated, its subsidiaries and affiliates. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 10:31:19 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: RE: Jforum: Typos Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:19:52 +0300 charset="koi8-r" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: I have noticed this phenomenon first time running new J beta. My first reaction was that it's kind'a bug of string hiliting. But then I learned about distive hiliting of complete/incomplete strings. Designing complicated rules for string hiliting may be furtile excersise, whereas there is a simple solution: include the code that turns off string hiliting at the beginning of the lab, and then after the end of the lab turn it back on. Examples of code in labs are usually simple and don't need string hiliting distinction facility. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 10:31:40 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:17:56 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: unmatched quote coloring References: Andrew Nikitin wrote: > I've > doesn't > shouldn't > don't > I'm > > Rule: if ' sign is between two alphabetic characters and to the left or > to the right of ' sign there is only one alphabetic character then this > position is not unclosed quote. Interesting. But it would not work for me as a programmer with: f'this is an open quote I feel strongly that the bias should be towards the programmer, not Brian's suit. We want to coddle the programmer without unnecessarily antagonizing the suit. I've been playing with my suggestion of only coloring unmatched quotes if the caret is on the line. It sounded better to me than it is in practice. Chris is going to take a look at it, but currently we both favor the option of simply removing unmatched quotes in labs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 10:39:19 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:28:10 -0400 From: Brian Bambrough Subject: Re: Jforum: Typos References: <3748BF8A.E825FE04@worldnet.att.net> <37494ED6.6F0E@interlog.com> I see your problem. But the issue of appearance is an important one in the marketing process, so it would be good if the problem could be fixed. First off, I would vote against your proposed solution of only showing the coloring when the caret is over the line. There are two reasons. 1) When I'm programming I want to be able to glance at the whole screen and instantly identify mismatched quotes. 2) It doesn't really solve the problem. If the user moves the caret over the line, the inappropriate colors suddenly jump out. This looks even more like a bug. Lest Gosi scold me again for being negative, let me offer three suggestions. 1) Leave the system exactly as it is, but explain to the user why this is part of the J environment - it really is a feature and not a bug. E.g., the first panel of each lab could have something like: "You will see different colors being used for text that is between quotes or follows a mismatched quote. This is the same way the programmer sees code. It is a useful programming/debugging tool." 2) Avoid contractions. Instead of "It's best" use "It is best". This makes the text a little more stilted, but solves the worst of the appearance problems. This still leaves the text between quotes having a different color. This can be solved by delivering the system with the text inside balanced quotes the same color as that outside them. The programmer can turn this feature back on later. 3) Write a verb that can reset colors on the fly. Embed this verb in the code that creates the labs. It would set colors to neutral just before text is displayed, then turn the colors back on to display code. The third solution is the cleanest and most complete, but I would think that it involves the most work. Eric Iverson wrote: > Brian Bambrough wrote: > > [dislikes unmatched quote coloring in labs] > > I agree. I hated this when I first saw it and I hate it even more with > time. I've thought about it and couldn't figure out what to do. When > should it be colored and when not? > > The current color logic is simple and fast by restricting the rules to > the context of a single line. The temptation for something like the labs > is to maintain state information over all lines so that you can know > things such as, this unmatched quote is in a lab section and shouldn't > be colored. I really don't want to add that complexity. For one thing, > with a very large file the editor would become noticably sluggish as it > has to scan the entire file on every keystroke! > > But, your message has given me an idea that I will try out. > > The coloring of unmatched quotes is disturbing in text but quite useful > for code. The question is how to distinguish without too much work. The > solution doesn't have to be %100 (I don't think it can be), but it > should work most of the time, particularly for novices and suits. > > What I'm going to try on an experimental basis is to color unmatched > quotes only if the caret is on the line. This may be a good idea or a > lousy one. I think the only way to tell is to let the forum try it for a > few days and get feedback. I'll try to do that today. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 10:50:28 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:39:18 -0400 From: David Ness Subject: Re: Jforum: Typos References: <3748BF8A.E825FE04@worldnet.att.net> While it would be hard to take a position in favor of typos, I'd be real surprised to find many business decisions that really swing on `typo detection'. Indeed, few of my managerial decision making colleagues or executive education students (most of whom had to scan _hundreds_ of pages a day of information) would ever catch a typo (or if they did, have a second thought about it. They're typically thinking about the subject _not_ the presentation.) People with serious decision problems, in my experience, are _terrible_ copy editors. They are too used to reading too much too fast to worry much---or even see---tiny details in what passes in front of them. [Lest I am accused of unfairness, `decision makers are usually lousy copy editors' is accompanied by a corollary `copy editors are usually lousy decision makers'...]. So, whatever (if anything) is keeping `J' from corporate adoptions, I doubt that it's got much to do with details of typography in the `help' documentation. Worrying about typos because they impact the programmers or other `in depth' users makes good sense. Worrying about them because of some nebulous---and arguable---effect on business decision makers strikes me as pointless. Of course, that's just an opinion. Brian Bambrough wrote: > ... > > > Supposing I was a suit (as I have been). A programmer has strongly > recommended to me that the company use J. So, I sit down with J to > evaluate it. For sure I'm going to run a couple of labs. Suppose I > start with the OOP lab, and I see the three panels above. > > Having "Locales" and "Grid Examples" in a different color to the rest > of the text seems eccentric to me but, ok, I can live with it. But > having "'s best when you can use existing modules with a few new" in a > different color is clearly wrong. My reaction would be "gee, if > there's big problems with something as simple as putting text on the > screen, how many problems must there be in the core language?" And I > would mandate that my company not use J. > ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 12:21:07 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:09:48 -0400 From: Daniel Torres Subject: Jforum: Re: Typos References: <3748BF8A.E825FE04@worldnet.att.net> <37496496.3FE6F333@Home.Com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DB85D20A1765FCA345F69D30" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DB85D20A1765FCA345F69D30 The experience in the field of advertising dictates that even if the probability of typos being discovered are low, one should not conclude that the importance of eliminating typos is diminished. The purchasing effect on a potential buyer who discovers a typo in the presentation of a product is devastating. I recommend eliminating all use of contractions and possessives in the text. It is more presentable, and eliminates the unmatched quote problem, to boot. Of course, always use the spelling checker. If available, also use a grammar checker. Daniel David Ness wrote: > > While it would be hard to take a position in favor of typos, I'd be > real surprised to find many business decisions that really swing > on `typo detection'. Indeed, few of my managerial decision making > colleagues or executive education students (most of whom had to scan > _hundreds_ of pages a day of information) would ever catch a typo > (or if they did, have a second thought about it. They're typically > thinking about the subject _not_ the presentation.) > > People with serious decision problems, in my experience, are _terrible_ > copy editors. They are too used to reading too much too fast to worry > much---or even see---tiny details in what passes in front of them. > > [Lest I am accused of unfairness, `decision makers are usually lousy > copy editors' is accompanied by a corollary `copy editors are usually > lousy decision makers'...]. > > So, whatever (if anything) is keeping `J' from corporate adoptions, I > doubt that it's got much to do with details of typography in the `help' > documentation. > > Worrying about typos because they impact the programmers or other > `in depth' users makes good sense. Worrying about them because of > some nebulous---and arguable---effect on business decision makers > strikes me as pointless. > > Of course, that's just an opinion. > > Brian Bambrough wrote: > > > > ... --------------DB85D20A1765FCA345F69D30 name="torres.vcf" Content-Description: Card for Daniel Torres Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="torres.vcf" begin:vcard n:Torres;Daniel tel;fax:1-978.383-5817 tel;home:1-305.441-0369 tel;work:1-305.461-6829 x-mozilla-html:TRUE adr:;;600 Biltmore Way APT 412;Coral Gables;FL;33134-7529;USA version:2.1 email;internet:torres@SAmerica.com fn:Daniel Torres end:vcard --------------DB85D20A1765FCA345F69D30-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 15:33:55 1999 From: "David Vincent-Jones" Subject: Jforum: Extended Comments Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:08:16 -0700 I would find it useful to be able to use an extended form of NB. to put a temporary block on several lines during development. I use this often with other languages. Would NB; and NB: be useful to others as well? David V-J -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 15:41:35 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:21:39 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: Extended Comments References: <000b01bea618$d2e68060$140881ce@desktop> It would be quite useful to me, BUT: what would the syntactical foundation for this be? I'd hate to much up the syntactical clarity and coherence of J. David Vincent-Jones wrote: > > I would find it useful to be able to use an extended form of NB. to put a > temporary block on several lines during development. I use this often with > other languages. > Would NB; and NB: be useful to others as well? > David V-J > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 16:16:12 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: RE: Jforum: Extended Comments Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:59:44 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: David Vincent-Jones [SMTP:geomap@galaxynet.com] > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 14:08 > > I would find it useful to be able to use an extended form of NB. to > put a > temporary block on several lines during development. I use this often > with > other languages. > You can download script http://members.xoom.com:80/nsg21/jedit.zip. Its brief description is at http://members.xoom.com/nsg21/jpage.htm In a couple of words: it assigns a shortcut that comments (or decomments) selected block. I have not tested it yet in j403 though. > Would NB; and NB: be useful to others as well? > David V-J > What is NB; supposed to be? nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 16:27:13 1999 From: "Nichols, Peter" Subject: RE: Jforum: Extended Comments Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:10:35 -0500 Yes, that would be helpful to me as well. Thanks David. Peter Nichols > -----Original Message----- > From: David Vincent-Jones [SMTP:geomap@galaxynet.com] > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:08 PM > To: J Forum > Subject: Jforum: Extended Comments > > I would find it useful to be able to use an extended form of NB. to put a > temporary block on several lines during development. I use this often with > other languages. > Would NB; and NB: be useful to others as well? > David V-J > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 17:27:00 1999 From: "Roger Hui" References: <000b01bea618$d2e68060$140881ce@desktop> Subject: Jforum: Re: Extended Comments Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:12:31 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" David Vincent Jones writes on Monday, May 24: > I would find it useful to be able to use an extended form of NB. to put a > temporary block on several lines during development. I use this often with > other languages. > Would NB; and NB: be useful to others as well? You can get something close to this by: 0 $ 0 : 0 This is a comment Cogito, ergo sum. deipnosophist, supercalifragilisticespialidocious ) For syntatic sugar use something like: Note=: 0$& Very=: 0 Well=: : 0 Then: Note Very Well blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 17:54:47 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: RE: Jforum: Re: Extended Comments Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:41:01 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Hui [SMTP:RHui@interlog.com] > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 13:13 > > Note=: 0$& (Note=:0&$) > Very=: 0 > Well=: : 0 > > Then: > > Note Very Well > blah blah blah > blah blah blah blah > ) > Will this be properly (i.e. as a comment) syntax hilighted (rhetoric question)? nsg? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 18:57:16 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 18:39:53 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (7th version) The 7th version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a07.exe Small fixes and changes. Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 19:22:13 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: Extended Comments Date: Mon, 24 May 99 23:03:20 +0000 David Vincent-Jones writes: > I would find it useful to be able to use an extended form > of NB. to put a > temporary block on several lines during development. > I use this often with > other languages. > Would NB; and NB: be useful to others as well? I am not sure about NB; but I have proposed in the past to have NB: I would use NB. as local comment that would be removed after development. NB: would be a global comment that would stay on and be used to explain the verb. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 20:12:55 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:51:01 -0400 From: Alain Miville de =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ch=EAne?= Subject: Jforum: Extended Comments charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id TAA14572 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >< Sure would, but how does it fit in with the language syntax? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 20:20:49 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:53:17 -0400 From: Alain Miville de =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ch=EAne?= Subject: RE: Jforum: Extended Comments charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id TAA14828 Message text written by INTERNET:forum@jsoftware.com >In a couple of words: it assigns a shortcut that comments (or decomments) selected block. I have not tested it yet in j403 though.< Better than changing the language. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 20:44:01 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Jforum: Strange chars Date: Tue, 25 May 99 00:33:44 +0000 I was playing with the FTP script from KBI. In order to get it into a script I had the ftp.htm up in a browser. I then copied the text from the browser and pasted it into an ijs. All kinds of strange chars appeard when I tried to run the window. It looked like some lines got copied onto the line below when there was indent but it also appeared to be copied onto spaces from the line above it as well. In the ijx what showed was spelling errors even if it did not look like there were any. load'c:\j403beta\temp\1.ijs' �spelling error � p=. >{:sdcheck sdgetsockname d� � ^ � ftpget=: dyad define �[-55] load'c:\j403beta\temp\1.ijs' �spelling error � c send 'RETR ',name� � ^ � ftpget=: dyad define �[-55] load'c:\j403beta\temp\1.ijs' /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 24 21:30:43 1999 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:13:55 -0400 From: Brian Bambrough Subject: Re: Jforum: Extended Comments References: <3749dab81cf7001@blik.skima.is> Gosi; There is no need to extend the language to achieve this. Just use a coding convention such as: NB. this is global NB.. this is local Then all you need do is to write a script to remove all the NB.. comments from your project's scripts. > > I am not sure about NB; but I have proposed in the > past to have NB: > > I would use NB. as local comment that would be > removed after development. > > NB: would be a global comment that would stay on > and be used to explain the verb. > > /Gosi > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 07:52:37 1999 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 06:32:21 -0500 From: Don Guinn Subject: Re: Jforum: Strange chars References: <3749efe85ef7001@blik.skima.is> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I noticed that the new editor supports dragging text to a new location, just like word processors. In the past I was sloppy in moving the mouse, but now I have to avoid doing an accidental drag. It's a nice feature, but one needs to be aware of it. gosi@centrum.is wrote: > I was playing with the FTP script from KBI. In order > to get it into a script I had the ftp.htm up in a > browser. I then copied the text from the browser > and pasted it into an ijs. > > All kinds of strange chars appeard when I tried > to run the window. It looked like some lines got > copied onto the line below when there was indent > but it also appeared to be copied onto spaces > from the line above it as well. > > In the ijx what showed was spelling errors even > if it did not look like there were any. > > load'c:\j403beta\temp\1.ijs' > �spelling error > � p=. >{:sdcheck sdgetsockname d > � ^ > � ftpget=: dyad define > �[-55] > load'c:\j403beta\temp\1.ijs' > �spelling error > � c send 'RETR ',name > � ^ > � ftpget=: dyad define > �[-55] > load'c:\j403beta\temp\1.ijs' > > > /Gosi > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 07:56:28 1999 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 06:42:32 -0500 From: Don Guinn Subject: Re: Jforum: unmatched quote coloring References: <37495F94.6F21@interlog.com> text=:0 : 0 Isn't this quote in the first word not unmatched? Looks OK to me. I''ve tried double quotes for singles but they stay doubled. As is usually is the case, a very nice tool leads to all kinds of side effects. By the way - the verb 'edit' doesn't know what to do with this noun either. ) text Isn't this quote in the first word not unmatched? Looks OK to me. I''ve tried double quotes for singles but they stay doubled. As is usually is the case, a very nice tool leads to all kinds of side effects. By the way - the verb 'edit' doesn't know what to do with this noun either. Eric Iverson wrote: > Andrew Nikitin wrote: > > I've > > doesn't > > shouldn't > > don't > > I'm > > > > Rule: if ' sign is between two alphabetic characters and to the left or > > to the right of ' sign there is only one alphabetic character then this > > position is not unclosed quote. > > Interesting. But it would not work for me as a programmer with: > f'this is an open quote > > I feel strongly that the bias should be towards the programmer, not > Brian's suit. We want to coddle the programmer without unnecessarily > antagonizing the suit. > > I've been playing with my suggestion of only coloring unmatched quotes > if the caret is on the line. It sounded better to me than it is in > practice. > > Chris is going to take a look at it, but currently we both favor the > option of simply removing unmatched quotes in labs. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 08:41:45 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: Extended Comments Date: Tue, 25 May 99 12:19:46 +0000 Brian Bambrough writes: > There is no need to extend the language to achieve this. > Just use a coding > convention such as: > NB. this is global > NB.. this is local Thanks .. That is a good idea .. simple and exactly what I was looking for. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 10:00:00 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: RE: Jforum: Extended Comments Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:33:47 +0300 charset="koi8-r" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000b01bea618$d2e68060$140881ce@desktop> (0 : 0) NB. this is multiline comment There might be no need. Borrowing from other languages, I very often use this ) or NB=: 0 : 0 use this NB this is a nicer multiline comment There might be no need. Borrowing from other languages, I very often use this ) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of David > Vincent-Jones > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 22:08 > To: J Forum > Subject: Jforum: Extended Comments > > > I would find it useful to be able to use an extended form of NB. to put a > temporary block on several lines during development. I use this often with > other languages. > Would NB; and NB: be useful to others as well? > David V-J > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 17:57:13 1999 From: Ajith Prasad Subject: Jforum: Boxed Arrays Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 00:18:16 +0800 I am puzzled why the following does not box up things the way I expect: test1=. (100;'x');(200;'y');(300;'z') I thought test1 should give 3 boxes within each of which there should be 2 boxes with the first box corresponding to the first member of the item in parentheses and the second box corresponding to the second member. Instead test1 gives 4 boxes with only the first 2 boxes behaving as expected. However, I get what I require if I write: test2=. (100;'x');(200;'y);<(300;'z') Why does the more "natural" expression in test1 not work the way one would expect? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 18:09:16 1999 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:33:03 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Re: Jforum: Extended Comments References: <001201bea6b3$37b295c0$0801a8c0@chief.spin.kharkov.ua> The suggestion below does not work -- trying to make the definition NB=: 0 : 0 or even NB=: (0 : 0) causes the cursor to be at the left margin and makes the interpreter wait for further input to conclude the definition. The alternative, (0 : 0) NB. stuff here and more here until the end ) of course produces a result that is immediately displayed, so you get the multi-line comment twice. The fix for that ... 0 0 $ (0 : 0) NB. stuff here and more here until the end ) ... seems rather ugly. Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > > > NB=: 0 : 0 > > use this > > NB > this is a nicer multiline comment > > There might be no need. Borrowing from other languages, > I very often use this > ) > -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 18:10:26 1999 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:35:46 -0400 From: Murray Eisenberg Organization: Mathematics & Statistics, Univ. of Mass./Amherst Subject: Jforum: Coloring after apostrophes References: <001201bea6b3$37b295c0$0801a8c0@chief.spin.kharkov.ua> I've looked at a couple labs in which apostrophes are used in contractions in text, e.g., "Let's". The coloring that starts at the "unmatched" single quote is truly distracting. Until a more coherent approach -- if there is one -- can be worked out, it might be a good idea to remove all such contractions from the distributed labs. And, if this occurs (didn't check it myself), rewrite so as to avoid all possessives formed with apostrophes. -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 18:19:06 1999 From: bjorn@rvk.is X-Lotus-FromDomain: RVK Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:20:43 +0000 Subject: Re: Jforum: Strange chars Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline > I was playing with the FTP script from KBI. In order > to get it into a script I had the ftp.htm up in a > browser. I then copied the text from the browser > and pasted it into an ijs. I am now using another browser and did the same copying and did not get any strange characters into the ijs. However....... Having started to look at this I began to look at how J403 handles Icelandic characters. It does NOT. I have J402 here to compare and I have tried several fonts. In J402 "Times New Roman" looks good as default and ansi. J403 "Times New Roman" displays completely wrong. This is a major drawback !!!!! On the bright side then I managed to get the ftp script to work. I have never given it a try before. I just read through it but now I tested it and it works just great. Well done Kirk !! I was looking for the ftp script on jsoftware and could not find it there It is not together with J403 either. It would be great as a lab !! Is there a search possibility to look through the jsoftware webpages? /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 18:31:45 1999 From: Eemcd@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:16:55 EDT Subject: Re: Jforum: Boxed Arrays The J Dictionary says x;y is ( Subject: RE: Jforum: Boxed Arrays Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 00:48:36 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id SAA20718 x;y is (-----Message d'origine----- >De: Ajith Prasad [SMTP:burap@nus.edu.sg] >Date: mardi 25 mai 1999 18:18 >�: 'forum@jsoftware.com' >Objet: Jforum: Boxed Arrays > >I am puzzled why the following does not box up things the way I expect: > test1=. (100;'x');(200;'y');(300;'z') > >I thought test1 should give 3 boxes within each of which there should be 2 >boxes with the first box corresponding to the first member of the item in >parentheses and the second box corresponding to the second member. Instead >test1 gives 4 boxes with only the first 2 boxes behaving as expected. > >However, I get what I require if I write: > test2=. (100;'x');(200;'y);<(300;'z') >Why does the more "natural" expression in test1 not work the way one would >expect? > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 19:13:58 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: Boxed Arrays Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:03:15 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Note that ; defined as ( Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 6:16 PM Subject: Re: Jforum: Boxed Arrays > The J Dictionary says > > x;y is ( > This is the official answer. The unofficial, personal, and biased answer is > that Ken and Roger refused my plea to define x;y as ( qualification. > > Eugene McDonnell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 19:23:11 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <001201bea6b3$37b295c0$0801a8c0@chief.spin.kharkov.ua> <374AB542.5CECF2AB@math.umass.edu> Subject: Re: Jforum: Coloring after apostrophes Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:10:50 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" We decided to leave the color editor as is, and fix up the labs. In the most recent J beta, some of the labs have already been corrected (e.g. the OOP lab). The others should be done before the release. These fixes should at least let you run the labs without looking too bad, assuming you have the default, or a simple, color configuration. Note that it will not solve all problems. For example, we changed some quoted text to use double quotes. If you have set a color coding for double quotes, that will show up in the lab text. > I've looked at a couple labs in which apostrophes are used in > contractions in text, e.g., "Let's". The coloring that starts at the > "unmatched" single quote is truly distracting. > > Until a more coherent approach -- if there is one -- can be worked out, > it might be a good idea to remove all such contractions from the > distributed labs. And, if this occurs (didn't check it myself), rewrite > so as to avoid all possessives formed with apostrophes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 21:50:50 1999 From: "Roger Hui" References: <006701bea702$d214bc20$950114d1@Pcdburke> Subject: Jforum: Re: Boxed Arrays Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:33:43 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" In addition to the explanations that Paul and Chris gave, I should point out that in J ; is a verb that is syntactically like any other. In particular, in a phrase such as x;y;z;a;b;c;d the instances of ; can not look forward or look back; each instance of ; is given only its left and right arguments. This is not the case with the ; in APL. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Tue May 25 22:04:34 1999 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:49:23 -0400 From: Kirk B Iverson Subject: Re: Jforum: Strange chars In-Reply-To: <3749efe85ef7001@blik.skima.is> At 00:33 1999-05-25 +0000, Gosi wrote: >I was playing with the FTP script from KBI. In order >to get it into a script I had the ftp.htm up in a >browser. I then copied the text from the browser >and pasted it into an ijs. > >All kinds of strange chars appeard when I tried >to run the window. It looked like some lines got >copied onto the line below when there was indent >but it also appeared to be copied onto spaces >from the line above it as well. >[...] Unfortunately, Internet Explorer seems to have trouble getting raw text out of a web page. Netscape handles it fine. I've added a link to the page which allows you to save the script directly to disk: http://www.interlog.com/~kbi/ftp/ftp.html /K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 26 03:12:01 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: Strange chars Date: Wed, 26 May 99 06:57:06 +0000 Kirk B Iverson writes: > Unfortunately, Internet Explorer seems to have trouble > getting raw > text out of a web page. Netscape handles it fine. You are right on the button ! I did use IE first and then Netscape and it worked fine. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 26 06:40:40 1999 From: Ajith Prasad Subject: RE: Jforum: Re: Boxed Arrays Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:26:50 +0800 charset="ISO-8859-1" Thanks. I forgot the "right-to-left" order of execution is also relevant in this case. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Hui [mailto:RHui@interlog.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 6:34 AM To: J Forum Subject: Jforum: Re: Boxed Arrays In addition to the explanations that Paul and Chris gave, I should point out that in J ; is a verb that is syntactically like any other. In particular, in a phrase such as x;y;z;a;b;c;d the instances of ; can not look forward or look back; each instance of ; is given only its left and right arguments. This is not the case with the ; in APL. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 26 15:28:46 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: Re: Jforum: Extended Comments Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:14:06 +0300 charset="iso-8859-1" Sure NB=: 0 :0 is wrong, I wrote without much thought. It should have been something like Roger proposed Nota=: 0 Bene=: :0 Nota Bene sdf sdfsd sdf sd sfd sdf sdf sd f ) As for the extra output. Sinse these comments are used in scripts, and most scripts run silently, who cares about the output? -----Original Message----- From: Murray Eisenberg Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 01:08 Subject: Re: Jforum: Extended Comments The suggestion below does not work -- trying to make the definition NB=: 0 : 0 or even NB=: (0 : 0) causes the cursor to be at the left margin and makes the interpreter wait for further input to conclude the definition. The alternative, (0 : 0) NB. stuff here and more here until the end ) of course produces a result that is immediately displayed, so you get the multi-line comment twice. The fix for that ... 0 0 $ (0 : 0) NB. stuff here and more here until the end ) .... seems rather ugly. Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > > > NB=: 0 : 0 > > use this > > NB > this is a nicer multiline comment > > There might be no need. Borrowing from other languages, > I very often use this > ) > -- Murray Eisenberg murray@math.umass.edu Mathematics & Statistics Dept. phone 413 549-1020 (H) Univ. of Massachusetts 413 545-2859 (W) Amherst, MA 01003-4515 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 26 16:36:02 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: Extended Comments Date: Wed, 26 May 99 20:24:48 +0000 Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > Nota=: 0 > Bene=: :0 > Nota Bene > sdf sdfsd > sdf sd sfd > sdf sdf sd f > ) Outside the verb it is ok to do this Nota=: 0 Bene=: :0 Nota Bene Here below follows a verb that does hardly anything bla bla blaaaaaaa ) f=: verb define 2+2 ) This here works fine but inside the verb it does not work f=: verb define 2+2 Nota Bene Inside the verb is not so good bla bla blaaaaaaa ) ) And at the end something like: 4!:55 <'Nota' 4!:55 <'Bene' would be needed /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Wed May 26 22:37:30 1999 From: k-list@iname.com Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Subject: Jforum: double byte problem - OCX I use English Win98 with Chinese viewer software The following command: wd'oleset ocx base text',EAV,[double-byte string],EAV will display some rubbish characters inside ocx, (the ocx can work with double-byte string under VB) but for normal text control: wd'set text',EAV,[double-byte string],EAV will display correctly. Any suggestion? --------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 27 03:29:03 1999 From: Subject: Jforum: ODBC vs Oracle 8 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:08:32 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id DAA02826 I posted a message about difficulties to connect to an Oracle 8 database, since I had no answer on this topic I am now resending the following sequences hoping someone can answer me. I translated the french parts of error messages in bold italic. Here are the sequences with error message: NB. First with the Oracle 8 supplied ODBC Driver ddcon'dsn=fend4;uid=unifedh;pwd=unifedh' _1 dderr'' IM002 0 [Microsoft][Gestionnaire de pilotes ODBC] Source de donn�es non trouv�e et nom de pilote non sp�cifi� IM002 0[Microsoft][ODBC driver]Data Source not found and driver name unspecified ddcon'dsn=fend4' _1 dderr'' 28000 1005 [Oracle][ODBC][Ora]ORA-01005: Aucun mot de passe; connexion refus�e 28000 1005 [Oracle][ODBC][Ora]ORA-1005: No Password; Connection Refused NB. And second, with the standard Microsoft ODBC Driver for Oracle ddcon'dsn=fend4;uid=unifedh;pwd=unifedh' _1 dderr'' IM002 0 [Microsoft][Gestionnaire de pilotes ODBC] Source de donn�es non trouv�e et nom de pilote non sp�cifi� IM002 0[Microsoft][ODBC driver]Data Source not found and driver name unspecified ddcon'dsn=fend4' _1 dderr'' 28000 1017 [Microsoft][ODBC driver for Oracle][Oracle]ORA-01017: nom d'utilisateur/mot de passe invalide; connexion refus�e - more error info available (1) 28000 1017 [Microsoft][ODBC driver for Oracle][Oracle]ORA-01017: Invalid User name/Password ;Connexion Refused - more error info available (1) NB. End of sequences I noticed that there is no provision for a password in the Oracle 8 ODBC driver configuration for any of the two drivers tried, as is the case for access... Is that something helping ? I would appreciate any help on this topic... I am sure someone out there is connecting to Oracle with J... Regards/Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 27 14:53:02 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Jforum: ODBC blob Date: Thu, 27 May 99 18:43:26 +0000 5 of 18 DSN DRIVER and DATA LOCATION ----------------------------------------- jblob Access97 file \j402\system\examples\data\jblob.mdb should possibly be J403 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 27 17:22:46 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Jforum: ODBC lab Date: Thu, 27 May 99 18:36:15 +0000 3 of 10 > loot at the sheet with Excel or another spreadsheet. should be "look at the sheet with Excel or another spreadsheet." 9 of 10 NB. run report SHEET expensereport ch �domain error: ymdfrts � m=.1{"1 ym=.0 1{"1 ymdfrts y. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 27 17:32:33 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Jforum: ODBC inverting SQL lab Date: Thu, 27 May 99 18:45:50 +0000 3 of 23 DSN DRIVER and DATA LOCATION ----------------------------------------- jdata FoxPro or Dbase driver directory \j402\system\examples\data\ messier EXCEL driver and spreadsheet file \j402\system\examples\data\messier.xls It is possibly not so good to include a fixed name for J402 directory in the lab. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 27 17:34:20 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Jforum: ODBC basic Date: Thu, 27 May 99 18:40:24 +0000 3 of 19 DSN FILE, DIRECTORY or DATABASE --------------------------------------------- jdata FoxPro or dBase driver \j402\system\examples\data jaccess ACCESS driver \j402\system\examples\data\jdata.mdb should possibly be refering to J403 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 27 17:50:00 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Jforum: Snapper and Windiff Date: Thu, 27 May 99 18:52:35 +0000 I can recommend two free programs I found on the web today. One is called Snapper and the other one called Windiff. Snapper shows which files have changed between different distributions of J and Windiff displays nicely in detail how the files have changed. I have used Windiff for many years but I always thought it was a part of C++ As I needed Windiff and did not have it on my computer I started to look for it on the web and found Snapper too. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Thu May 27 17:57:33 1999 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:37:13 -0400 From: David Ness Subject: Re: Jforum: Re: Typos References: <3748BF8A.E825FE04@worldnet.att.net> <37496496.3FE6F333@Home.Com> <374979CC.BD8555AD@SAmerica.com> Daniel Torres wrote: > > The experience in the field of advertising dictates that even if the > probability of typos being discovered are low, one should not conclude that the > importance of eliminating typos is diminished. The purchasing effect on a > potential buyer who discovers a typo in the presentation of a product is > devastating. > Could you give me some references? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 07:32:27 1999 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 06:15:06 -0500 From: Don Guinn Subject: Re: Jforum: Re: Typos References: <3748BF8A.E825FE04@worldnet.att.net> <37496496.3FE6F333@Home.Com> <374979CC.BD8555AD@SAmerica.com> <374D4A89.FCA2C0AE@Home.Com> It depends on the buyer (or reader). My wife is very critical of spelling and grammatical errors. When she sees one it turns her off to the author or product. Me? I could care less. What upsets me is incompleteness either by accident or in an attempt to mislead. David Ness wrote: > Daniel Torres wrote: > > > > The experience in the field of advertising dictates that even if the > > probability of typos being discovered are low, one should not conclude that the > > importance of eliminating typos is diminished. The purchasing effect on a > > potential buyer who discovers a typo in the presentation of a product is > > devastating. > > > > Could you give me some references? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 08:19:04 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: Jforum: Syntax hiliting and fonts Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:00:59 +0300 charset="iso-8859-1" I have checked the new 403a07 beta for fonts and hiliting. It's nice to have the underline alternative. However, 2 problems: 1. Not always the underline is visible. Especially, in most widely used Courier New at 9pt (wich corresponds to J's 11pt): In italic/underline it shows, though, in 10/12pt it shows by itself. But the 9pt (J's 11pt) is so critical. Can it be fixed? 2. In 'control words' item, when you select underline, together with the "word." (word dot) the right adjesent spaces are underlined: word. another word ~~~~~~~~ Of course it's not seen in color/italic, since the spaces are invisible, but shows through in underline. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 10:11:58 1999 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:15:04 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Syntax hiliting and fonts References: <000601bea901$c0f8e0f0$0801a8c0@chief.spin.kharkov.ua> Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > > I have checked the new 403a07 beta for fonts and hiliting. > It's nice to have the underline alternative. However, 2 problems: > > 1. Not always the underline is visible. Especially, in most widely > used Courier New at 9pt (wich corresponds to J's 11pt): > In italic/underline it shows, though, in 10/12pt it shows > by itself. But the 9pt (J's 11pt) is so critical. Can it be fixed? I just use the font provided by Windows with the size and options requested. I don't think there is anything I can do about how underline looks at a small size. > 2. In 'control words' item, when you select underline, together > with the "word." (word dot) the right adjesent spaces are underlined: > > word. another word > ~~~~~~~~ This is a bug and will be fixed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 13:50:10 1999 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:37:54 -0400 From: Alain Miville de =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ch=EAne?= Subject: Jforum: Problem when debug GUI is active charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id NAA00476 J caused an invalid page fault in module J.DLL at 0177:10022026. Registers: EAX=016a2fd0 CS=0177 EIP=10022026 EFLGS=00010246 EBX=016bfb38 SS=017f ESP=006eeaac EBP=00000000 ECX=00000000 DS=017f ESI=00e7ea54 FS=324f EDX=0000012f ES=017f EDI=006eead0 GS=0000 Bytes at CS:EIP: c7 01 fe ff ff ff 8b 40 04 85 c0 75 eb a1 b0 27 Stack dump: 00000000 10022217 00000000 00e7ea54 0169e630 0146fb00 02000000 10032ab0 016ca3dc fffffffe 00e7ea00 0146fb94 016bfb38 0169e630 0169364c 01671f00 and the debug window was showing >[0] 11!:0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 14:36:48 1999 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:25:46 -0400 From: Alain Miville de =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ch=EAne?= Subject: Jforum: J4.03 wheel on mouse charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id OAA15363 the wheel still doesn't work on the mouse. It works in 4.02. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 15:51:56 1999 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:32:49 +0200 From: Martin Neitzel Subject: Re: Jforum: Snapper and Windiff In-Reply-To: <374d947330ee001@blik.skima.is> Organization: Gaertner Datensysteme, Braunschweig, Germany In article <374d947330ee001@blik.skima.is> you write: > > I can recommend two free programs I found on the web today. > One is called Snapper and the other one called Windiff. > > Snapper shows which files have changed between different > distributions of J and Windiff displays nicely in detail how the files > have changed. The repository users can already compare their existing J standard library against the most current or any other release. The important point is to relief YOU as a user from mainting directories with different versions, which quickly accumulate. (Hi there, beta testers!) For example, the following command quickly shows what happened between the J libary as stored on your computer with what's now _officially_ current and going to be part of the next release, for brevity restricted on the system/main hierarchy: cvs diff -cu -r HEAD system/main (Or the appropriate buttons in a graphical CVS frontend): Index: system/main/format.ijs =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/local/cvs/j/isi/lib/system/main/format.ijs,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 retrieving revision 1.2 diff -c -u -r1.1.1.1 -r1.2 cvs diff: conflicting specifications of output style --- system/main/format.ijs 1999/01/09 08:15:59 1.1.1.1 +++ system/main/format.ijs 1999/03/01 21:10:58 1.2 @@ -108,7 +108,7 @@ ) NB. ========================================================= -NB.*expandby v expand data with fit value +NB.*expandby c expand data with fit value NB. e.g. 0 1 0 0 1 expandby 99 [ 10 20 NB. 99 10 99 99 20 expandby=: 2 : 'm.&# ^:_1 !. n.' @@ -223,11 +223,11 @@ end. if. 'z' e. x do. - dat=. (1-w){.!.'0' &.> dat - dat=. (neg{'0-'),&>,dat + dat=. (-w){.!.'0' &.> ,dat + dat=. > ('-'&, @ }. &.> neg#dat) (bx neg)} dat else. - dat=. (neg{' -'),&.>dat - dat=. (-w){.!.' ' &>,dat + dat=. (neg{' -'),&.>,dat + dat=. (-w){.!.' ' &> dat end. r=. r, Subject: Jforum: Restore from file Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:06:21 -0500 Doing a edit/restore from file in the new #7 version doesn't update the screen. Pressing the down arrow will update each line as it passes by. Peter Nichols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 16:54:44 1999 From: "Nichols, Peter" Subject: Jforum: Restore from file Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:49:00 -0500 If I'm editing a file and then click on Restore from file, it doesn't rewrite the screen. Peter Nichols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 17:00:58 1999 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:11:40 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Restore from file References: <01074BD4EEC4D1118E3200805F6542A7177EE1@SPRDALLAS2> Nichols, Peter wrote: > Doing a edit/restore from file in the new #7 version doesn't update the > screen. Pressing the down arrow will update each line as it passes by. Thanks. We'll fix that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 17:57:39 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: Jforum: new editor features Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:14:17 -0500 Does new editor allow to assign J verbs to different key combinations? Is there programmatic access to left 'margin' (where bookmarks are placed)? Can user place something on this margin? nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 18:31:02 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features Date: Fri, 28 May 99 22:14:14 +0000 All this talk about the J editor. Does that mean that the development environment for J is now called J editor? I have always preferred to call it a studio because it is a lot more than an editor. It took me a while to get the hang of it. I was looking for an editor but did not find any. It is possible to say that you give away J for free and only sell the editor. I still prefer to call it a studio. Parts of the studio is obviously an editor. And by the way. I am having a problem with Icelandic characters in the editor. They display ok in the form editor and on forms but not in ijx nor ijs as they used to in J402. I am using J40307 even if the help about only tells me it is J403Beta. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 19:01:50 1999 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:46:41 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features References: Andrew Nikitin wrote: > Does new editor allow to assign J verbs to different key combinations? > Is there programmatic access to left 'margin' (where bookmarks are > placed)? > Can user place something on this margin? There is no support for this. Interesting ideas for the next release. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 19:11:44 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: RE: Jforum: new editor features Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:58:13 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: gosi@centrum.is [SMTP:gosi@centrum.is] > Sent: Friday, May 28, 1999 17:14 > > All this talk about the J editor. Does that mean that > the development environment for J is now called > J editor? > > I have always preferred to call it a studio because it > is a lot more than an editor. Personally I use editor as part of, as you call it, 'studio' 100% of the time I work with it. (Actually, not exactly 100, but it is very good approximation) This relates not only to J environment, but to any I ever used. That is why convenience and power of editor strictly determines convenience and power of environment ('studio'). And that is why I am so concerned about editor. Among all those new editor's features there is only one that I've found useful to me: possibility to turn off syntax coloring. And I was just curious, maybe there is something else almost the same usefull? > It took me a while to get the hang of it. I was looking > for an editor but did not find any. Sure. If you wish you may call it 'studio'. Then the questions would be Does new 'studio' allow to assign J verbs to different key combinations? Is there programmatic access to left 'margin' (where bookmarks are placed)? Can user place something on this margin? > It is possible to say that you give away J for free and only > sell the editor. I still prefer to call it a studio. Parts of the > studio is obviously an editor. Sure. The same way as parts of the computer is obviously computer without dust inside. > And by the way. I am having a problem with Icelandic characters in the > editor. You are lucky. I have problems with russian characters and this hurts me much more. nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 19:11:47 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features Date: Fri, 28 May 99 22:56:10 +0000 > And by the way. I am having a problem with Icelandic > characters in the editor. I might add that if the Icelandic characters are permanently gone in this editor then I would like to be able to chose the old editor as a config option. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 19:11:52 1999 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:53:55 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features References: <374f1536684b001@blik.skima.is> gosi@centrum.is wrote: > I am having a problem with Icelandic characters in the editor. Could you give me more information on this problem. As far as I can tell the new J code editor (ijx and ijs windows) supports true type fonts with ANSI and OEM character sets the same as before. What font are you having problems with? How does it display? Note that it must be a fixed pitch font. If you select a font that isn't fixed pitch, your selection is ignored and you get a default system font. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 20:04:44 1999 From: Andrew Nikitin Subject: Jforum: smscroll Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:48:04 -0500 It seems that sematics of smscroll had been changed. For j402 smscroll n meant: scroll window so that n-th line appear at top. Now it means: scroll window n lines down. Can I model previous behaviour of smscroll? nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Fri May 28 22:36:24 1999 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:20:28 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: smscroll References: Andrew Nikitin wrote: > It seems that sematics of smscroll had been changed. > For j402 > > smscroll n > > meant: scroll window so that n-th line appear at top. > Now it means: scroll window n lines down. > > Can I model previous behaviour of smscroll? You're right. As far as I can tell this is an unintentional change. I'll check with Chris, but my immediate reaction is that it is a bug and it will be fixed. There is a new command, smgetscroll, with this release that gives the scroll position of the top line. You could model either definition of smscroll from the other. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 04:31:41 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features Date: Sat, 29 May 99 08:19:07 +0000 Eric Iverson wrote: > gosi@centrum.is wrote: > > I am having a problem with Icelandic characters in the editor. > > Could you give me more information on this problem. As far as I can tell > the new J code editor (ijx and ijs windows) supports true type fonts > with ANSI and OEM character sets the same as before. What font are you > having problems with? I am not getting Times New Roman which I usually used before in J402 and I tried a few others at random and did not see any. Notepad displays Icelandic chars with many of the fonts that J does not. > How does it display? In ISIJ they do not display at all in ijx and they display as black boxes in ijs. > Note that it must be a fixed > pitch font. If you select a font that isn't fixed pitch, your > selection > is ignored and you get a default system font. I tested all variations of fonts and settings and now I do get Icelandic characters with this: courier 20 ansi courier 20 default courier new 20 ansi courier new 20 default fixedsys ansi fixedsys oem fixedsys default lucida console default lucida console ansi marlett ansi modern ansi monotype sorts ansi ms outlook ansi mt extra ansi roman ansi script ansi system ansi system default terminal ansi wingdings ansi I bet some of them are not really there and the system is picking something instead. For exempel windings. Notepad does not display Icelandic characters with wingdings but J does !! /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 06:25:46 1999 From: Subject: Jforum: ODBC vs Oracle 8 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:14:46 +0200 Hello ! 1 2 3 ! Hello ! 1 2 3! Anyone connecting J to Oracle 8 out there ? If you do please contact me, I need help... Regards/Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 09:02:30 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 08:52:30 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features References: <374fa2fb1d82001@blik.skima.is> gosi@centrum.is wrote: > I am not getting Times New Roman which I usually used > before in J402 and I tried a few others at random and > did not see any. Notepad displays Icelandic chars with > many of the fonts that J does not. Times New Roman is not a fixed pitch font. You must use a fixed pitch font in the new J code editor. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 10:25:55 1999 From: bjorn@rvk.is X-Lotus-FromDomain: RVK Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 14:16:11 +0000 Subject: Jforum: Replace all Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I was trying "replace all" and it looks like "replace all" does not do "replace all". What it does is "replace forward" so when I had ----------- script begins 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4 -------------- script ends After replace all "." with "" it looks like ----------- script begins 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4 1234 1234 -------------- script ends "Replace all" should do "find from top" and then "replace forward" or rename the button. /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 12:26:39 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <00256780.004E6380.00@bvnotes.bv.rvk.is> Subject: Re: Jforum: Replace all Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:18:02 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks for pointing this out. The name will be changed to 'Replace Forward', leaving the existing behaviour unchanged. To replace from the top, first press the 'Find From Top' button. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 10:16 AM Subject: Jforum: Replace all > I was trying "replace all" and it looks like "replace all" does not do > "replace all". > What it does is "replace forward" so when I had > > ----------- script begins > 1.2.3.4 > > 1.2.3.4 > > > > 1.2.3.4 > > 1.2.3.4 > > -------------- script ends > > After replace all "." with "" it looks like > > ----------- script begins > 1.2.3.4 > > 1.2.3.4 > > > > 1234 > > 1234 > > > -------------- script ends > > "Replace all" should do "find from top" and then "replace forward" > or rename the button. > > > /Gosi > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 13:02:24 1999 From: Ajith Prasad Subject: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 00:53:55 +0800 Python and K directly support "dictionaries". For example, in Python, I can write a salary lookup table for, say, 3 employees as a dictionary of the form: salary_table = {'bill':(200,300,400),'madeline':(150,200,250),'alan':(160,170,200)} Bill's salary would then be given by the following function call: salary_table['bill'] and would produce the required result: salary_table['bill']=(200,300,400) How would one similarly implement "dictionaries" in J? Thanks in advance for any advice. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 13:06:56 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:57:01 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (8th version) The 8th version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a08.exe Various fixes and changes. Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 13:28:15 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 13:20:26 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Here is a quick and dirty method. Dictionaries is a nice idea and I would to have a script that implemented them. It likely would not have to be part of the interpreter. DAT=: _2 [\ 'bill';200 300 400;'madeline';150 200 250;'alan';160 170 200 get=: [: > [: {: ] {~ ([: {."1 ]) i. [: {. [: boxopen [: , [ DAT +--------+-----------+ |bill |200 300 400| +--------+-----------+ |madeline|150 200 250| +--------+-----------+ |alan |160 170 200| +--------+-----------+ 'bill' get DAT 200 300 400 'alan' get DAT 160 170 200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ajith Prasad Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J > Python and K directly support "dictionaries". For example, in Python, I can > write a salary lookup table for, say, 3 employees as a dictionary of the > form: > > salary_table = > {'bill':(200,300,400),'madeline':(150,200,250),'alan':(160,170,200)} > > Bill's salary would then be given by the following function call: > > salary_table['bill'] and would produce the required result: > > salary_table['bill']=(200,300,400) > > How would one similarly implement "dictionaries" in J? Thanks in advance for > any advice. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 13:43:18 1999 From: "Roger Hui" References: Subject: Jforum: Re: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:32:44 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Ajith Prasad writes on Saturday, May 29: > Python and K directly support "dictionaries". For example, in Python, I can > write a salary lookup table for, say, 3 employees as a dictionary of the > form: > > salary_table = > {'bill':(200,300,400),'madeline':(150,200,250),'alan':(160,170,200)} > > Bill's salary would then be given by the following function call: > > salary_table['bill'] and would produce the required result: > > salary_table['bill']=(200,300,400) > > How would one similarly implement "dictionaries" in J? Thanks in advance for > any advice. Dictionaries can be implemented by having separate arrays for the keys and the corresponding data. Instead of using the key values directly as indices, you'd use keys i. kv . Thus: keys=: <;._1 ' bill madeline alan' data=: _3[\ 200 300 400 150 200 250 160 170 200 (keys i. <;._1 ' madeline bill') { data 150 200 250 200 300 400 data=: 222 333 444 (keys i. <'bill') } data data 222 333 444 150 200 250 160 170 200 When designing the keys it is important to select a representation which has fast support in the dyad i. , such as a boolean, integer, or literal array, or a vector of boxed strings ("keys" above). You can readily verify the fitness using 6!:2 . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 15:03:44 1999 From: "Simon Garland" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 20:54:35 +0200 charset="iso-8859-1" I've got a neat implementation of dictionaries (3 different classes, for general text keys, for tokens, and for numbers) I'll sort out the code and send it shortly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ajith Prasad Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 6:53 PM Subject: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J > Python and K directly support "dictionaries". For example, in Python, I can > write a salary lookup table for, say, 3 employees as a dictionary of the > form: > > salary_table = > {'bill':(200,300,400),'madeline':(150,200,250),'alan':(160,170,200)} > > Bill's salary would then be given by the following function call: > > salary_table['bill'] and would produce the required result: > > salary_table['bill']=(200,300,400) > > How would one similarly implement "dictionaries" in J? Thanks in advance for > any advice. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 15:21:12 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: Re: Jforum: Syntax hiliting and fonts Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:12:54 +0300 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEAA20.668DFF90" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEAA20.668DFF90 charset="iso-8859-1" I wanted to make a testbench for font specs and see how underline works in isigraph. To my surprise I found out that it does not work at all. You can run the attached form script to see that the underline option in fontspec does nothing. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEAA20.668DFF90 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="fontspec.ijs" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="fontspec.ijs" require'gl2' FRM=3D: 0 : 0 pc frm;pn "Font Specifications"; sbar 2 ; sbarset idsfont 120 "Font metrics"; sbarset idsext 50 "Extent"; sbarshow; xywh 7 80 180 50;cc gr isigraph rightmove bottommove; xywh 6 6 64 50;cc face combodrop; xywh 72 6 23 50;cc size combodrop ws_vscroll cbs_autohscroll; xywh 10 25 35 11;cc cset1 radiobutton;cn "ANSI"; xywh 10 35 35 11;cc cset2 radiobutton group;cn "OEM"; xywh 10 45 35 11;cc cset3 radiobutton group;cn "default"; xywh 60 25 34 11;cc italic checkbox; xywh 60 35 34 11;cc bold checkbox; xywh 60 45 34 11;cc underline checkbox; xywh 99 6 88 11;cc str edit ws_border es_autohscroll rightmove; xywh 99 20 88 58;cc tm editm ws_border ws_vscroll es_autohscroll = es_autovscroll es_readonly rightmove; pas 6 6;pcenter; rem form end; ) frm_run=3D: 3 : 0 wd FRM wd'set face *Arial',LF,'Courier New',LF,'Times New Roman' wd'setselect face 1' wd'set size *10',LF,'12',LF,'14',LF,'16',LF,'18',LF,'20',LF,'22' wd'setselect size 3' wd'set str *testing 1 2 3' wd'setfont tm "Courier New" 11' wd 'pshow;' frm_do'' ) frm_cancel=3D: frm_close=3D: wd bind 'pclose' frm_italic_button=3D: frm_bold_button=3D: frm_underline_button=3D: = frm_do frm_cset1_button=3D: frm_cset2_button=3D: frm_cset3_button=3D: frm_do frm_face_button=3D: frm_face_select=3D: frm_do frm_str_button=3D: frm_size_select=3D: frm_size_button=3D: frm_do frm_do=3D: 3 : 0 t=3D. '"',face,'" ',size,' ' t=3D. t,' ',;(".cset3,' ',cset2)#;:'default oem' t=3D. t,' ',;:^:_1(".italic,' ',bold,' ',underline)#;:'italic bold = underline' wd'set idsfont *', t glsel'gr' glclear'' glmap MM_TEXT glmapraw'' glextent 0 glextentfont t wd'set idsext *Extent: ',":glqextent str fm=3D. 'Height Ascent Descent InternalLeading ExternalLeading ' fm=3D.>;:fm,'AverageCharWidth MaxCharWidth' wd'set tm *',_1}.,,&LF"1 fm,"1 ' ',"1 ":,.glqtextmetrics '' glfont t gltextxy 10 10 gltext str glshowx'' glpaintx'' ) ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEAA20.668DFF90-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 15:21:14 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: Re: Jforum: Syntax hiliting and fonts Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:10:29 +0300 charset="iso-8859-1" Here is an illustration to see where the problem may be. Open WordPad. Enter a couple of text lines. Select all (Ctrl+A) and choose Courier New 9pt font. Now select a word on the top line and press the "U" button on the toolbar (switch for the underline style) several times. Notice how the second line below jumps up and down allowing an extra pixel for the underline on the line above. Now Select all and choose Courier New 10pt. Do the same as above. Now the line below does not jump, since there is enough space for the underline in that font size. I suspect that the problem with underline visibility at certain fonts and sizes can cured with adding extra pixel(s) per line. I believe Windows API functions, like GetTextExtentPoint32 should provide the necessary information. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Iverson Date: Friday, May 28, 1999 17:05 Subject: Re: Jforum: Syntax hiliting and fonts Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > > I have checked the new 403a07 beta for fonts and hiliting. > It's nice to have the underline alternative. However, 2 problems: > > 1. Not always the underline is visible. Especially, in most widely > used Courier New at 9pt (wich corresponds to J's 11pt): > In italic/underline it shows, though, in 10/12pt it shows > by itself. But the 9pt (J's 11pt) is so critical. Can it be fixed? I just use the font provided by Windows with the size and options requested. I don't think there is anything I can do about how underline looks at a small size. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 15:43:13 1999 From: "Oleg Kobchenko" Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:32:19 +0300 charset="iso-8859-1" Windows has option for fonts to be ANSI or OEM. But for keyboards in national settings there is only the ANSI option. Prior to beta J403, J 'editor' refused to accept keycodes of the upper ANSI set above 127, though it could display them. Now it accepts. However the mapping is such that it does not correctly correspond to either ANSI or OEM. Moreover, currently the Config/Font selection does not preserve the 'Script' and it always remain 'Western'. So one cannot even select the proper charset to see the Russian letters at all. I suppose the same happens with Icelandic. However, French (Canadian) may not suffer such problems, since the Western charset includes French letters. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Iverson Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 02:00 Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features gosi@centrum.is wrote: > I am having a problem with Icelandic characters in the editor. Could you give me more information on this problem. As far as I can tell the new J code editor (ijx and ijs windows) supports true type fonts with ANSI and OEM character sets the same as before. What font are you having problems with? How does it display? Note that it must be a fixed pitch font. If you select a font that isn't fixed pitch, your selection is ignored and you get a default system font. --- also --- > And by the way. I am having a problem with Icelandic characters in the > editor. You are lucky. I have problems with russian characters and this hurts me much more. nsg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 17:03:48 1999 From: "Simon Garland" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:50:25 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEAA25.A4371DE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEAA25.A4371DE0 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit enclosed is a project 'dictionaries', unpack it to your user\projects directory the implementation is based on the smalltalk Dictionary, class sDict is the ordinary dictionary with strings as keys. sWDict (Word Dictionary) is based on Jtokens - ie on the use of ;: to chop the keys, and sNDict uses numeric keys. you'll see that the two subClasses sWDict and sNDict inherit most of the code from sDict and only change how the keys are handled. each class contains a method, and sDict has some documentation, I'll add some more if anyone is interested in using this stuff. load the project from the project manager, then heres your example: salaryTable=.''conew'sWDict' pPutKV__salaryTable'bill madeline alan';200 300 400;150 200 250;160 170 200 1 1 1 get__salaryTable 'bill' �����������Ŀ �200 300 400� ������������� get__salaryTable 'ajith' NB. try to get key that doesn't exist �index error: get � i {values pGet__salaryTable'ajith' NB. permissive get, returns default ڿ �� �� setFill__salaryTable 0 0 0 NB. set the default value 0 0 0 pGet__salaryTable'ajith' NB. permissive get �����Ŀ �0 0 0� ������� includes__salaryTable 'tom dick harry bill' 0 0 0 1 size__salaryTable '' 3 allKV__salaryTable'' NB. all key/value pairs ��������������������������������������������������������Ŀ �������������������Ŀ�200 300 400�150 200 250�160 170 200� ��bill�madeline�alan�� � � � ��������������������ٳ � � � ���������������������������������������������������������� delete__salaryTable 'bill' 1 delete__salaryTable 'bill' NB. try to delete again, but not found �assertion failure: assert � assert x.+.*./foundMsk pDelete__salaryTable 'bill' NB. permissive delete, this works.. 0 and so on... ----- Original Message ----- From: Ajith Prasad Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 6:53 PM Subject: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J > Python and K directly support "dictionaries". For example, in Python, I can > write a salary lookup table for, say, 3 employees as a dictionary of the > form: > > salary_table = > {'bill':(200,300,400),'madeline':(150,200,250),'alan':(160,170,200)} > > Bill's salary would then be given by the following function call: > > salary_table['bill'] and would produce the required result: > > salary_table['bill']=(200,300,400) > > How would one similarly implement "dictionaries" in J? Thanks in advance for > any advice. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEAA25.A4371DE0 Content-Type: application/x-zip-compressed; name="Projects.zip" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Projects.zip" UEsDBAoAAAAAAGa1vSYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANAAAAZGljdGlvbmFyaWVzL1BLAwQUAAAACABbtb0m uLDiavQAAAAxAgAAHQAAAGRpY3Rpb25hcmllcy9kaWN0aW9uYXJpZXMuaWpwhZExT8MwEIX3SPkP t0UsqGWsxOBgQyOFOHIOWqQuwTHIrWmqOBV/nzoxpW6lMni4756e39MV6S3sunatZA8f2qgZ7K3q Vh7ZVaNlr9tt3WkVDnEUR7KVprYWkrXXJ46WInsm4u0xy1l1P4MJHF4cXbG1brqu2P4v+R4lNycR 8ix1CZIhFmWvv5GOwAt8RNf/0KtR7/vPOLKy07u+aaX35DhnInRAIp4YOnaGcv5ALuCcEcrEGWRL FOTI0pcsp7zEMdQU7mA61mHDJvip5BVeUmRVGKjgeHoG+1Ub09dmA0ZvFNDgokPPRVZQvvgr6Wck 6EwnP1BLAwQUAAAACABFe44mR7oSUFwDAAAICQAAFgAAAGRpY3Rpb25hcmllcy9zRGljdC5panOF Vd1v2jAQf0fif7iKaUkKywjdU4A+TG2njW3aw9SXaqpSMK2XNEaxQbCu/dt354/EYS2VQI5/dz7/ 7tNzMS8yKQN5xucq6Ha6nXnFMsWmKZxACkPcFyyrAhRJpi54UcAbBPEXkfKCSVWJHWrPhf3WNuhM YyJnO4k7OrjJijVzG21C4bFGdfVjrWaXEAZLXkkFomTBOJBsLsqF3ag7XpnvaJyMExjRH06std+C l7PLxt73jzEQBuZiuAQlgG25VLy8deBSVDBDp8Cchl3c7aRIexrDkm9nyB5OH2INY6xYpeA4fv+U 5ua6Dao9GilfxpBMexqFhUAEwKmEvTyyEiIl51mRVUhFsVJyUXY7rFzgAa26jeGWKcijwdv4VJ/p dhBb6djk400d/YL5qSK7Bru+XmAMMe5DjBguiVlGQURuGh3n5lKsy8U3Sd5SooDFTyjyfPf8RhL9 mLx3h4zP/QZwbueMrYzRd7E1qw0B2GqwCj3aElxXhhMYwMWluVC7Lvkfz3FrREuyovALgCRjZ0or IGV5fr9Su0ZpCFMgi1TmWoeX82K90HS82Dr0UHTrEPrR0zYxo21zCBzOE9WATRJ32eHtvFD0MSk2 6PzBeDqYLLFTMXSFZC2Bi6YjtN8qGnqVVNMiPq18eohaPn6RXCNq0bO2GoJkcDiFr1RIzuyEbqot UbugjDy5z3IGcl0xUHeZgiALgEsY4Nq6RLdUOwYaejkGppiGZknMMqLAmO48MDvK9Y3piKf0bfw3 zjVPBGFZiXtAUgPAWaxMJ1CcJSj0ojRDwY4YOm8M9fJ64NTDxgwaI496r08aa2mzl0nkKpQ3Fzj2 h+0xm9Vj3fSeVl2CxCDUylGfx31fJ4LwZgs+8MhbE2EnB56UHPTmgq2esG2yl6W1Q7Um8EdwFWVc bEqe3rAm4aYUzUh5Toa7uoHZdiUq9VOgljd7huDjLv84XTAzR+kogRuxFStW/j9Gh1NU+AAKn8zw 5ChNQt0Y0SCc6OgNJsaFiMxoLfowXzUnfk93X2AB7bNqSxyvFgE7B2nqvcA3IEamLgyZgK5AtZCU E+QSPUvLPOOom6S2L34h+InVoJkiFqwhDXxxTzhi9kEm+Mw9dgjbB4zgz/sBQPGe61eodt7OHSq1 snb1D1BLAwQUAAAACABFe44mfzct35EAAADBAAAAFwAAAGRpY3Rpb25hcmllcy9zTkRpY3QuaWpz RY2xCoNAEET7g/uH6SSQLBo7D5uQziCp0uu5kkOjwT1B/z6nCGl2Ho/ZXTvavhKJpLw76yOt7MiL 56GJ5BBalTdC7zpGNWC3Z9Szh38zOl4F1cQY5k/Nk2z11i1F0HmGFBlirVxLiHEhPAgroRlJKwTK CSaEVuFdmBudtgOexf+3v8/ZFy8kuCI1iQlpdj7KP1BLAwQUAAAACABFe44mwhmFtcgAAAAOAQAA FwAAAGRpY3Rpb25hcmllcy9zV0RpY3QuaWpzRY5BS8QwEIXvhf6HdzK7UELXvaXUg3hbEU96E2Iy ZUNrIp0pbv+90yJ4GAa++R5vQgmTZzb8/pSCmLoKhW5CORr+A3X18mgxpZHgM3ba4HMRyJUw0srw M+GnzJFx8EEWP00rpIyU+bjFh3S7qNY7nOHQ1lUaLNoezxarRSy2roDOfbiDkh6tO66KaGLaL82d fVBve+LL6xO8aJ1cvcB4g8RodKufo+p7oRDLf9v36yKXN5ghzSxgCiVHzac5mu7UnXC/Dc579hdQ SwECFAAKAAAAAABmtb0mAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADQAAAAAAAAAAABAA/0EAAAAAZGljdGlvbmFyaWVz L1BLAQIUABQAAAAIAFu1vSa4sOJq9AAAADECAAAdAAAAAAAAAAEAIAC2gSsAAABkaWN0aW9uYXJp ZXMvZGljdGlvbmFyaWVzLmlqcFBLAQIUABQAAAAIAEV7jiZHuhJQXAMAAAgJAAAWAAAAAAAAAAEA IAC2gVoBAABkaWN0aW9uYXJpZXMvc0RpY3QuaWpzUEsBAhQAFAAAAAgARXuOJn83Ld+RAAAAwQAA ABcAAAAAAAAAAQAgALaB6gQAAGRpY3Rpb25hcmllcy9zTkRpY3QuaWpzUEsBAhQAFAAAAAgARXuO JsIZhbXIAAAADgEAABcAAAAAAAAAAQAgALaBsAUAAGRpY3Rpb25hcmllcy9zV0RpY3QuaWpzUEsF BgAAAAAFAAUAVAEAAK0GAAAAAA== ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEAA25.A4371DE0-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 17:23:32 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:07:37 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Syntax hiliting and fonts References: <002301beaa06$eaf3e250$0801a8c0@chief.spin.kharkov.ua> Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > > Here is an illustration to see where the problem may be. > > Open WordPad. Enter a couple of text lines. Select all (Ctrl+A) > and choose Courier New 9pt font. Now select a word on the top line > and press the "U" button on the toolbar (switch for the underline > style) several times. Notice how the second line below jumps up and > down allowing an extra pixel for the underline on the line above. > > Now Select all and choose Courier New 10pt. Do the same as above. > Now the line below does not jump, since there is enough space for > the underline in that font size. > > I suspect that the problem with underline visibility at certain > fonts and sizes can cured with adding extra pixel(s) per line. > I believe Windows API functions, like GetTextExtentPoint32 should > provide the necessary information. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Iverson > To: forum@jsoftware.com > Date: Friday, May 28, 1999 17:05 > Subject: Re: Jforum: Syntax hiliting and fonts > > Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > > > > I have checked the new 403a07 beta for fonts and hiliting. > > It's nice to have the underline alternative. However, 2 problems: > > > > 1. Not always the underline is visible. Especially, in most widely > > used Courier New at 9pt (wich corresponds to J's 11pt): > > In italic/underline it shows, though, in 10/12pt it shows > > by itself. But the 9pt (J's 11pt) is so critical. Can it be fixed? > > I just use the font provided by Windows with the size and options > requested. I don't think there is anything I can do about how underline > looks at a small size. Interesting. I now see what would have to be done in order to properly support underline. It has also made me realize that it might be possible to support bold with a similar trick. That is, tighten up the bold chars so that they were of the same width as plain. This might look ok. If not, then the plain chars could be spread out a bit so that the result was fixed pitch. Interesting ideas for the future. I'm afraid we've reached the point of diminishing returns. And we are out of time. We'll have to live with these limitations, but keep them in mind for the future. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 17:46:03 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:28:16 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 Beta (version 9) The 9th version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a09.exe Error in build left latest j.dll out of version 08. Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 17:51:07 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:25:00 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features References: <003301beaa09$f840b390$0801a8c0@chief.spin.kharkov.ua> Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > Windows has option for fonts to be ANSI or OEM. > But for keyboards in national settings there is only > the ANSI option. Prior to beta J403, J 'editor' refused > to accept keycodes of the upper ANSI set above 127, though > it could display them. Now it accepts. However the mapping > is such that it does not correctly correspond to either > ANSI or OEM. > > Moreover, currently the Config/Font selection does not > preserve the 'Script' and it always remain 'Western'. > So one cannot even select the proper charset to see the Russian > letters at all. I suppose the same happens with Icelandic. > However, French (Canadian) may not suffer such problems, > since the Western charset includes French letters. I don't understand. Possibly because my experiments with English windows and keyboard give different result than on your configuration. As far as I can tell the support for J402 J403 code editors of ANSI and OEM character sets is identical (in function, though the code is completely different). The only difference is that the J403 code editor insists on a fixed pitch font. If I select Courier New ANSI, I can enter code points above 127 with the alt numeric sequence. For example, alt+0200 displays an accented cap E in the editor. This behaves as expected. Or I can cut/paste from CharMap or other apps. Just realized you are probably (Russian and Icelandic) are trying to work with multi-byte character sets. These might work in the old editor (as it is a standard edit control), but I think it would get J a bit confused as I'm not sure how the multibyte codes would get passed across. There is no multi-byte support in the new code editor. Eventualy it might be possible to have unicode support both in the editor and in J and this would be the proper solution in the future. But the future is not now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 17:58:18 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:45:09 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: Syntax hiliting and fonts References: <002e01beaa07$41b05240$0801a8c0@chief.spin.kharkov.ua> Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > ... [isigraph font underline option doesn't] ... Thanks. This is fixed and will be in next version. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 18:17:17 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 16:59:36 -0500 From: Peter Nichols Subject: Re: Jforum: ODBC vs Oracle 8 References: paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr wrote: > > Hello ! 1 2 3 ! Hello ! 1 2 3! > Anyone connecting J to Oracle 8 out there ? > If you do please contact me, I need help... > Regards/Paul > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm Best of luck Paul. I've noticed you're not getting much of a response. Wish I knew some oracle to help you. I'll pass your error around to some of the folks at work. Maybe we can figure it out. How's life and times? Kate and I are doing well. There's some chance that we will get to move down to Austin. Later dude. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 20:17:23 1999 From: Ajith Prasad Subject: RE: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 08:06:22 +0800 charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id UAA16290 Thanks to Roger Hui and Simon Garland for their suggestions on how "dictionaries" could be implemented in J. It seems to me that dictionaries are a very useful concept but their implementation is non-trivial. Simon's suggestion to further enhance his project script to provide added functionality would be welcomed by all. -----Original Message----- From: Simon Garland Sent: 5/30/99 4:50 AM Subject: Re: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J enclosed is a project 'dictionaries', unpack it to your user\projects directory the implementation is based on the smalltalk Dictionary, class sDict is the ordinary dictionary with strings as keys. sWDict (Word Dictionary) is based on Jtokens - ie on the use of ;: to chop the keys, and sNDict uses numeric keys. you'll see that the two subClasses sWDict and sNDict inherit most of the code from sDict and only change how the keys are handled. each class contains a method, and sDict has some documentation, I'll add some more if anyone is interested in using this stuff. load the project from the project manager, then heres your example: salaryTable=.''conew'sWDict' pPutKV__salaryTable'bill madeline alan';200 300 400;150 200 250;160 170 200 1 1 1 get__salaryTable 'bill' �����������Ŀ �200 300 400� ������������� get__salaryTable 'ajith' NB. try to get key that doesn't exist �index error: get � i {values pGet__salaryTable'ajith' NB. permissive get, returns default ڿ �� �� setFill__salaryTable 0 0 0 NB. set the default value 0 0 0 pGet__salaryTable'ajith' NB. permissive get �����Ŀ �0 0 0� ������� includes__salaryTable 'tom dick harry bill' 0 0 0 1 size__salaryTable '' 3 allKV__salaryTable'' NB. all key/value pairs ��������������������������������������������������������Ŀ �������������������Ŀ�200 300 400�150 200 250�160 170 200� ��bill�madeline�alan�� � � � ��������������������ٳ � � � ���������������������������������������������������������� delete__salaryTable 'bill' 1 delete__salaryTable 'bill' NB. try to delete again, but not found �assertion failure: assert � assert x.+.*./foundMsk pDelete__salaryTable 'bill' NB. permissive delete, this works.. 0 and so on... ----- Original Message ----- From: Ajith Prasad Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 6:53 PM Subject: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J > Python and K directly support "dictionaries". For example, in Python, I can > write a salary lookup table for, say, 3 employees as a dictionary of the > form: > > salary_table = > {'bill':(200,300,400),'madeline':(150,200,250),'alan':(160,170,200)} > > Bill's salary would then be given by the following function call: > > salary_table['bill'] and would produce the required result: > > salary_table['bill']=(200,300,400) > > How would one similarly implement "dictionaries" in J? Thanks in advance for > any advice. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- ------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > <> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 20:46:34 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: ODBC vs Oracle 8 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 02:35:20 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id UAA17719 >Best of luck Paul. I've noticed you're not getting much of a response. >Wish I knew some oracle to help you. I'll pass your error around to >some of the folks at work. Maybe we can figure it out. > >How's life and times? > >Kate and I are doing well. There's some chance that we will get to move >down to Austin. Later dude. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm >[ Paul GAUTHIER] >Life is good, I found a house with 4 bedrooms and a garden with even a fenced >yard for the dogs. I will sign the lease next tuesday. I will go back to >Montr�al june 22nd and land june 23rd. > >Denise misses me and I miss her very much... We will soon be alltogether on >French soil for at least 4 years it seems... > >I made a few good improvements alreaday and they are pleased with my work. >(Hope it stays that way longer than in Dallas). > >Things like 22 times faster to import data from Oracle and massage it in APL, >all done in 6 times less space and I would estimate 100 times more readable >code... > >The APL code here is the most horrifying I ever saw so far... > >I heard from the "teflon man" that he is looking for some APL position, he >mentioned the checkfree thing without conviction but he is now working for >WorldTrade and no APL... > >I hope your future move tu Austin will be backed by some wonderfull new >changes for both of you... > >I'll keep you posted from time to time but please do the same... > >Friendly/Paul > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 22:59:10 1999 From: Subject: Jforum: Peter Nichols and I Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 04:43:31 +0200 I apologize for the mistake in responding to private mail on this forum. There is a first time for everything...Regards/Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 22:59:18 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:41:58 -0400 From: David Ness Subject: Jforum: J403 v09 bizzare behavior? When I do the following: a=:1!:1<'c:\z.tmp' a=:a.i.a a It runs like a flash in J3.05 and takes a detectable delay in J4.03 It also displays the end of the vector (a is 50,000 or so long) in J3.05 and only one very long line (ending in . . . ) in J4.03. Also, after doing this, there is a _very detectable_ pause after typing each character of a `next command' in J4.03 while J3.05 runs (as always), like a shot... Am I (a) crazy; (b) in some deep doo-doo for an obscure reason; or (c) seeing some terrible bug in 4.03? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 23:01:35 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:44:25 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J References: Ajith Prasad wrote: > Python and K directly support "dictionaries". For example, in Python, I can > write a salary lookup table for, say, 3 employees as a dictionary of the > form: > > salary_table = 'bill':(200,300,400),'madeline':(150,200,250),'alan':(160,170,200)} > > Bill's salary would then be given by the following function call: > > salary_table['bill'] and would produce the required result: > > salary_table['bill']=(200,300,400) > > How would one similarly implement "dictionaries" in J? Thanks in advance for > any advice. I think the answers from Chris, Roger, and Simon show ways to a proper implementation of kinds of facilities you want. I wanted to point out other things. Not because they are a better way to implement what you want, but because they might add to your understanding. K and Phython dictionaries are similar to J locales. They are all just variations on the traditional idea of a symbol table. They differ in how and in what degree they integrate into the language. It is interesting to see what the simplest mapping of your K example is in J. Your K example (simplified): st = 'bill':(200,300,400),'madeline':(150,200,250) st['bill'] 200 300 400 st['bill']=(100,100,100) J version: st=: cocreate'' NB. create new locale (dictionary) bill__st=: 200 300 400 madeline__st=: 100 200 300 bill__st 200 300 400 bill__st=: 100 100 100 In my opinion, in an example as simple as this, Roger's array oriented approach will be much simpler to code and debug and will be much much faster. As the problem gets more complicated and messy and you want to reuse the code in other applications, then Simon's object oriented approach starts to have benefits. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 23:11:43 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:49:50 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J403 v09 bizzare behavior? References: <3750A576.25C2C278@Home.Com> David Ness wrote: > When I do the following: > a=:1!:1<'c:\z.tmp' > a=:a.i.a > a > It runs like a flash in J3.05 and takes a detectable delay in J4.03 > It also displays the end of the vector (a is 50,000 or so long) in > J3.05 and only one very long line (ending in . . . ) in J4.03. > > Also, after doing this, there is a _very detectable_ pause after > typing each character of a `next command' in J4.03 while J3.05 runs > (as always), like a shot... > > Am I (a) crazy; (b) in some deep doo-doo for an obscure reason; or > (c) seeing some terrible bug in 4.03? I just finished telling Roger I knew about this problem and that it was an acceptable one. Then your message shows up. I'm surprised no one else has commented on this, and that lulled my into thinking it wasn't too important. Trouble is all that silly parsing and coloring is being done for a lot of stuff unnecessarily and that can make things sluggish at times. I will take a look at this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sat May 29 23:23:09 1999 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 23:04:55 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: J403 v09 bizzare behavior? References: <3750A576.25C2C278@Home.Com> David Ness wrote: > When I do the following: > a=:1!:1<'c:\z.tmp' > a=:a.i.a > a > It runs like a flash in J3.05 and takes a detectable delay in J4.03 > ... I see what is happening and it is a bug. Your example displays a large number of characters in the line. With the file I chose it was 50,000 characters. The code is supposed to truncate after 256 characters to prevent the problem you are seeing. But the output is coming in many chunks and instead of remembering it is truncating and just throwing away the other chunks it keeps adding on each truncated chunk. If you have the patience to scroll over in your output you will see ... periodically. Thanks for the report. It will be fixed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 00:20:05 1999 From: k-list@iname.com Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 00:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Subject: Jforum: double-byte & .js Just dl & test j403beta9. Preliminary test shows that it can pass double-byte text string to ocx control. (^o^) When called by VB using exe and dll ole server, (examples/ole/vb/jsvr1 ) double-byte string can pass to J, but js.GetB cannot correctly handle double-string from J and some rubbish is returned. some .js weren't amended to .ijs in some scripts yet, so in some cases those examples fail to execute Searching C:\J403BETA\SYSTEM\EXAMPLES\OLE\VB\jole.bas Found at line 127, file offset 2,839 jdo "script_z_ Just realized you are probably (Russian and Icelandic) are trying to > work with multi-byte character sets. Icelandic is NOT using multi-byte character set. It uses 8 bit code page 1252 in windows. > Eventualy it might be possible to have unicode support both in the > editor and in J and this would be the proper solution in the future. But > the future is not now. We are not asking for Unicode NOW /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 07:00:51 1999 From: gosi@centrum.is Subject: Re: Jforum: ODBC vs Oracle 8 Date: Sun, 30 May 99 10:50:49 +0000 > paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr wrote: > > > > Hello ! 1 2 3 ! Hello ! 1 2 3! > > Anyone connecting J to Oracle 8 out there ? > > If you do please contact me, I need help... > > Regards/Paul I have J and I have Oracle 8. I just have not started to use them together. Is there a problem? /Gosi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 10:00:30 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: <990530000014B3.09947@weba4.iname.net> Subject: Re: Jforum: double-byte & .js Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:48:28 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Fixed, thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 12:00 AM Subject: Jforum: double-byte & .js ... > some .js weren't amended to .ijs in some scripts yet, > so in some cases those examples fail to execute ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 10:26:45 1999 From: Subject: RE: Jforum: ODBC vs Oracle 8 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 16:11:22 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by plus.interlog.com id KAA10833 I am forwarding to you the long message I just sent Chris Burke. See end... See for youself, I beleive there is a missing link here...Regards/Paul >-----Message d'origine----- >De: gosi@centrum.is [SMTP:gosi@centrum.is] >Date: dimanche 30 mai 1999 12:51 >�: forum@jsoftware.com >Objet: Re: Jforum: ODBC vs Oracle 8 > >> paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr wrote: >> > >> > Hello ! 1 2 3 ! Hello ! 1 2 3! >> > Anyone connecting J to Oracle 8 out there ? >> > If you do please contact me, I need help... >> > Regards/Paul > >I have J and I have Oracle 8. >I just have not started to use them together. >Is there a problem? >/Gosi > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >J Forum: for information about this list, see >http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm >[ Paul GAUTHIER] Here are the messages from may 17th 1999 on the subject, but before you browse through them let me quickly answer your questions. The method for opening Oracle fails with any/all J version. In APL+WIN it works because we use a propriatary DLL that makes the core of APL LINK Version 1 which gives us connectivity for Oracle as well as Ingres etc. They have multiple links support through what they call a console. So the syntax to connect to Oracle in their case is the equivalent of: rc=.SQAConnect con srv [pwd] [usr] [auto] con is the connection object name src is the Data Source name pwd is the password usr is the logon user id auto is the value 'AutoCommit' 'N' or 'AutoCommit 'Y' rc os the result and what they call the console handle. So rc=.SQAConnect 'MyFirstCon' 'Oracle' 'unifedh' 'unifedh' ('AutoCommit' 'N') will work fine... Yes, the datasource is found but as I pointed out, Oracle, for security reason does not provide for the password to be included in the ODBC proprieties window. In the ODBC window, the dsn name is fend4, in Oracle 8, both the Data Source and what Oracle calls the Service Name are fend4 and they have a user unifedh with password unifedh. The APL LINK under APL+WIN connection is done through the DLL from Insight Systems ApS of Hellebaek, Denmark. Its based on SQAPL for SequeLink, which was designed by Bjorn Christensen and Morten Kromberg at Insight Systems in 1993. ODBC Support was added in May 1994. Question, does that mean that someone has to develop a special package for connecting J to Oracle or other DataBase like DB2, ESSBase etc. ? What is it I don't catch in these security issues ? Now, here are copies of the messages I sent both to the J forum and Gordon since May 17th 1999. In chronological order: May 17th to forum@jsoftware.com I am trying to connect to an Oracle v8 database and can't seem to get the connection parameters right. ddecon'dsn=oracle8;uid=mine;pwd=secret' always gives me the following: IM002 0 [Microsoft][Gestionnaire de pilotes ODBC] Source de donn�es non trouv�e et nom de pilote non sp�cifi� On the other hand, ddecon'dsn=oracle8' gives me the following: 28000 1017 [Oracle][ODBC][Ora]ORA-01017: nom d'utilisateur/mot de passe invalide; connexion refus�e Which was to be expected. We also use that database with APL-Link and they seem to go through a "console" which is the first parameter (before the dsn) that we pass to their function. So my question is: What special wizardry in the syntax (or missing console) should I do in order to at least connect to the "thing" P.S.: Sorry for the french error messages but NT 4 SP 4 is in french here. May 25th to gordon@island.net I tried just about every combination and I'm still stuck... I have Oracle 8 with a defined datasource fend4, uid=unifedh, pwd=unifedh I am trying to connect and it does not work for me. It works with an access database but not with Oracle 8... Si I tried: ch=.ddcon'dsn=fend4;uid=unifedh,pwd=unifedh' ch=.ddcon'dsn=fend4' And variations (with/without uid and/ou pwd) Nothing works, what am I doing wrong ? Any idea ? Regards/Paul semicolon should have been before pwd and /ou should read /or ou is french for or... Regards/Paul -----Message d'origine----- De: Paul GAUTHIER Date: mardi 25 mai 1999 11:59 �: 'gordon@island.net' Objet: ODBC I tried just about every combination and I'm still stuck... I have Oracle 8 with a defined datasource fend4, uid=unifedh, pwd=unifedh I am trying to connect and it does not work for me. It works with an access database but not with Oracle 8... Si I tried: ch=.ddcon'dsn=fend4;uid=unifedh,pwd=unifedh' ch=.ddcon'dsn=fend4' And variations (with/without uid and/ou pwd) Nothing works, what am I doing wrong ? Any idea ? Regards/Paul Here is the sequence with error message: ddcon'dsn=fend' _1 dderr'' 28000 1017 [Oracle][ODBC][Ora]ORA-01017: nom d'utilisateur/mot de passe invalide; connexion refus�e ddcon'dsn=fend4' _1 dderr'' 28000 1005 [Oracle][ODBC][Ora]ORA-01005: Aucun mot de passe; connexion refus�e I noticed that there is no provision for a password in the Oracle 8 ODBC driver configuration as is the case for access... Is that something helping ? -----Message d'origine----- De: Paul GAUTHIER Date: mardi 25 mai 1999 12:02 �: 'gordon@island.net' Objet: TR: ODBC/ERRATA semicolon should have been before pwd and /ou should read /or ou is french for or... Regards/Paul -----Message d'origine----- De: Paul GAUTHIER Date: mardi 25 mai 1999 11:59 �: 'gordon@island.net' Objet: ODBC I tried just about every combination and I'm still stuck... I have Oracle 8 with a defined datasource fend4, uid=unifedh, pwd=unifedh I am trying to connect and it does not work for me. It works with an access database but not with Oracle 8... Si I tried: ch=.ddcon'dsn=fend4;uid=unifedh,pwd=unifedh' ch=.ddcon'dsn=fend4' And variations (with/without uid and/ou pwd) Nothing works, what am I doing wrong ? Any idea ? Regards/Paul We also use APL-Link with APL2000 and here is the strinq they use with one of their library routine: C1999525133013866 fend4 unifedh unifedh So, apparently, a "console" is used to pass the parameters to the ODBC DLL. Does that mean we need to do something similar in J ? Regards/Paul May 26thondrus@csfb.com -----Message d'origine----- De: Chris Burke [SMTP:cdburke@interlog.com] Date: samedi 29 mai 1999 19:13 �: Paul GAUTHIER Objet: Fw: Jforum: ODBC vs Oracle 8 Paul, No one on the J forum seems have advice for you on Oracle 8. Perhaps you could experiment. Does your method of opening Oracle in J403 work in J402? Does it work in APL+WIN? Is the data source found when you list them (ddsrc'')? If not you have to add it. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 6:14 AM Subject: Jforum: ODBC vs Oracle 8 > Hello ! 1 2 3 ! Hello ! 1 2 3! > Anyone connecting J to Oracle 8 out there ? > If you do please contact me, I need help... > Regards/Paul > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > [ Paul GAUTHIER] May 26th to ondrus@csfb.com Sorry but this does not work with Oracle. Oracle, for security reasons does not provide for the entry od a password in their ODBC drivers nor could I find an ODBC driver that would for Oracle. I still can't connect, I sent other messages to Gordon and will follw through... It looks like there is something special about Oracle (I'm using version 8). On the other hand, I did try it for Access abd it works fine as you say... Regards/Paul -----Message d'origine----- De: Ondrus, Milan [SMTP:milan.ondrus@csfb.com] Date: mercredi 26 mai 1999 08:20 �: Paul GAUTHIER Objet: RE: ODBC/J 4.03a Hi Paul. It should work the same way as before - just let out the "UID" and "PWD" ]ch =. ddcon'dsn=tables' NB. ]ch= ddcon'dsn=tables' 0 <<< was a typing error - sorry having misled you. The UID/PWD is now somehow encoded as a number in the result of the connection handle. So you must obviously not care about it.I even tried it with accessing DB2 on the mainframe from an NT 4 platform - and it works. So. ]ch=. ddcon'dsn=tables' NB. even if the connection is protected by username+password sh =. 'select * from tablename' ddsel ch rc =. ddfch sh,100 NB. fetch the first 100 records My problem was that as soon as I used "UID" and "PWD" I got this message that the file is not registered in ODBC. /regards Milan. > -----Original Message----- > From: paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr [SMTP:paul_gauthier@dynasys.tm.fr] > Sent: Dienstag, 25. Mai 1999 11:49 > To: milan.ondrus@csfb.com > Subject: RE: ODBC/J 4.03a > > > > >-----Message d'origine----- > >De: Ondrus, Milan [SMTP:milan.ondrus@csfb.com] > >Date: mardi 25 mai 1999 09:28 > >�: Paul GAUTHIER > >Objet: FW: ODBC/J 4.03a > > > > > > Paul, > > > > please ignore message below.. > > Found out that it works with a different handle. > > > > In J4.02a : ]ch=.ddcon'dsn=tables;uid=donald;pwd=duck' > > In J4.03a : ]ch= ddcon'dsn=tables' 0 > > > > It seems to work now. > > > > regards/Milan > > > >[ Paul GAUTHIER] > >It still does not work for me, as for the example for J4.03a: > >ch=. ddcon'dsn=tables' 0 > >I would understand if J was supporting heterogeneous arrays > >but it's not the case and we all know why don't we ? > > > >So if it works for you I would appreciate an example, because it > >does not for me... > > > >Regards/Paul > > > > [ Paul GAUTHIER] May 28th to forum@jsoftware.com I posted a message about difficulties to connect to an Oracle 8 database, since I had no answer on this topic I am now resending the following sequences hoping someone can answer me. I translated the french parts of error messages in bold italic. Here are the sequences with error message: NB. First with the Oracle 8 supplied ODBC Driver ddcon'dsn=fend4;uid=unifedh;pwd=unifedh' _1 dderr'' IM002 0 [Microsoft][Gestionnaire de pilotes ODBC] Source de donn�es non trouv�e et nom de pilote non sp�cifi� IM002 0[Microsoft][ODBC driver]Data Source not found and driver name unspecified ddcon'dsn=fend4' _1 dderr'' 28000 1005 [Oracle][ODBC][Ora]ORA-01005: Aucun mot de passe; connexion refus�e 28000 1005 [Oracle][ODBC][Ora]ORA-1005: No Password; Connection Refused NB. And second, with the standard Microsoft ODBC Driver for Oracle ddcon'dsn=fend4;uid=unifedh;pwd=unifedh' _1 dderr'' IM002 0 [Microsoft][Gestionnaire de pilotes ODBC] Source de donn�es non trouv�e et nom de pilote non sp�cifi� IM002 0[Microsoft][ODBC driver]Data Source not found and driver name unspecified ddcon'dsn=fend4' _1 dderr'' 28000 1017 [Microsoft][ODBC driver for Oracle][Oracle]ORA-01017: nom d'utilisateur/mot de passe invalide; connexion refus�e - more error info available (1) 28000 1017 [Microsoft][ODBC driver for Oracle][Oracle]ORA-01017: Invalid User name/Password ;Connexion Refused - more error info available (1) NB. End of sequences I noticed that there is no provision for a password in the Oracle 8 ODBC driver configuration for any of the two drivers tried, as is the case for access... Is that something helping ? I would appreciate any help on this topic... I am sure someone out there is connecting to Oracle with J... Regards/Paul [ Paul GAUTHIER] Then the latest, May 28th to forum@jsoftware.com [ Paul GAUTHIER] which you replied to. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 13:02:19 1999 From: Ajith Prasad Subject: RE: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 00:52:01 +0800 charset="ISO-8859-1" This is particularly neat - it gives me the basic building block for the solution in J of the practical problem that I had tackled quite easily in Python. The problem was: given the current salary of an individual on a specified annual salary scale what would his/her salary be in n years time. Using Chris's "get" verb and the bx utility (bx=: #i.@#), the answer is given by the following verb: next=: 3 : 0 'd k v n'=. y. ((bx (k get d)= v)+n){k get d NB. d - dictionary;k - key NB. v - value to be matched; n -offset from value to be matched ) Once the "get" verb had been defined, a solution to the problem in J has turned out to be easy. It would, of course, have been impossible for a J neophyte like myself to come up with anything like the "get" definition. I suppose it was easier for me to tackle the problem in Python as dictionaries are directly supported in the language - in effect, the equivalent of the "get" verb has been included in the standard Python libraries. I think the suggestion of a script supporting dictionaries is excellent as it would simplify tackling many practical business problems. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Burke Sent: 5/30/99 1:20 AM Subject: Re: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J Here is a quick and dirty method. Dictionaries is a nice idea and I would to have a script that implemented them. It likely would not have to be part of the interpreter. DAT=: _2 [\ 'bill';200 300 400;'madeline';150 200 250;'alan';160 170 200 get=: [: > [: {: ] {~ ([: {."1 ]) i. [: {. [: boxopen [: , [ DAT +--------+-----------+ |bill |200 300 400| +--------+-----------+ |madeline|150 200 250| +--------+-----------+ |alan |160 170 200| +--------+-----------+ 'bill' get DAT 200 300 400 'alan' get DAT 160 170 200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ajith Prasad Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J > Python and K directly support "dictionaries". For example, in Python, I can > write a salary lookup table for, say, 3 employees as a dictionary of the > form: > > salary_table = > {'bill':(200,300,400),'madeline':(150,200,250),'alan':(160,170,200)} > > Bill's salary would then be given by the following function call: > > salary_table['bill'] and would produce the required result: > > salary_table['bill']=(200,300,400) > > How would one similarly implement "dictionaries" in J? Thanks in advance for > any advice. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 14:16:52 1999 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 13:03:58 -0500 From: Peter Nichols Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features References: <3751174244b6001@blik.skima.is> Actually, I'd love to have unicode as I will be working with asian alphabets. I'm just beginning to learn about unicode. Are there editm boxes that I can connect into J that do support it? I need to be able to read and write Tibetan. Could you give us folks out on the fringe an idea of when it might be available? Thanks, Peter Nichols gosi@centrum.is wrote: > > Eric Iverson wrote: > > Just realized you are probably (Russian and Icelandic) are trying to > > work with multi-byte character sets. > > Icelandic is NOT using multi-byte character set. > It uses 8 bit code page 1252 in windows. > > > Eventualy it might be possible to have unicode support both in the > > editor and in J and this would be the proper solution in the future. But > > the future is not now. > > We are not asking for Unicode NOW > > /Gosi > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 14:47:44 1999 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:34:16 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: double-byte & .js References: <990530000014B3.09947@weba4.iname.net> k-list@iname.com wrote: > Just dl & test j403beta9. Preliminary test shows that > it can pass double-byte text string to ocx control. (^o^) > When called by VB using exe and dll ole server, > (examples/ole/vb/jsvr1 ) double-byte string can pass to J, but > js.GetB cannot correctly handle double-string from J and some > rubbish is returned. js.GetB and js.SetB map the BSTR datatype to J character strings. The definition for the mapping of BSTR to J character string is to throw away the extra byte of each unicode character. This is fine and convenient in 'english' applications where the discarded bytes are always 0. Since there is no 2 byte character data type in J, such data must be represented as J integer lists. I think you can solve your problem of moving unicode data between VB and J if you use VB routines that convert between unicode strings and integer arrays and exchange integer arrays with J. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 15:05:47 1999 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:15:30 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: new editor features References: <3751174244b6001@blik.skima.is> <37517D8E.6D19@airmail.net> Peter Nichols wrote: > Actually, I'd love to have unicode as I will be working with asian > alphabets. I'm just beginning to learn about unicode. Are there editm > boxes that I can connect into J that do support it? I need to be able > to read and write Tibetan. Could you give us folks out on the fringe an > idea of when it might be available? This is a clear case where input has to come from you. You have the motivation and you are in the environment where you can and must experiment. You are in the real world with the real requirements. See how much you can do with what is already there. Communciate your experience and wishes back here in the forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 15:11:45 1999 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:58:06 -0400 From: Kirk B Iverson Subject: Re: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J In-Reply-To: <002401bea9f7$97198180$c70114d1@Pcdburke> References: At 13:20 1999-05-29 -0400, you wrote: >Here is a quick and dirty method. Dictionaries is a nice idea and I >would to have a script that implemented them. It likely would not have >to be part of the interpreter. > > DAT=: _2 [\ 'bill';200 300 400;'madeline';150 200 250;'alan';160 >170 200 > > get=: [: > [: {: ] {~ ([: {."1 ]) i. [: {. [: boxopen [: , [ > > DAT >+--------+-----------+ >|bill |200 300 400| >+--------+-----------+ >|madeline|150 200 250| >+--------+-----------+ >|alan |160 170 200| >+--------+-----------+ > > 'bill' get DAT >200 300 400 > 'alan' get DAT >160 170 200 I find the verb difficult to read, and have never been comfortable with this use of the cap verb. The following is a variant of a similar utility verb I've used often: from=: ] >@{:@{~ {."1@] i. <@,@[ 'madeline' from DAT 150 200 250 /K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 18:11:57 1999 From: "Roger Hui" Subject: Jforum: Re: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:56:06 -0400 charset="Windows-1252" Chris Burke writes on Saturday, May 29: > Here is a quick and dirty method. Dictionaries is a nice idea and I > would to have a script that implemented them. It likely would not have > to be part of the interpreter. > > DAT=: _2 [\ 'bill';200 300 400;'madeline';150 200 250;'alan';160 > 170 200 > > get=: [: > [: {: ] {~ ([: {."1 ]) i. [: {. [: boxopen [: , [ > > DAT > +--------+-----------+ > |bill |200 300 400| > +--------+-----------+ > |madeline|150 200 250| > +--------+-----------+ > |alan |160 170 200| > +--------+-----------+ I recommend keeping the keys separate from the data. As above, to do anything with the keys (i.e., to do anything), you have to first do {"1 DAT . As well, if the keys are separate, and the data are "fully inverted" (one field per pronoun), the solution scales easily. For example, you can readily use mapped variables. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 19:13:01 1999 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:59:09 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 final beta The 10th version of the J 4.03 beta is now available (NT/Win9?). http://www.interlog.com/~eiverson/j403a10.exe This is the final beta version. The beta expires at the end of the month. Download, install, start J, and read the Release Notes (Help|Release Notes). Please send comments and problem reports to this forum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Sun May 30 23:42:38 1999 From: "Chris Burke" References: Subject: Re: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:31:02 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: Ajith Prasad Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 12:52 PM Subject: RE: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J ... > Once the "get" verb had been defined, a solution to the problem in J has > turned out to be easy. It would, of course, have been impossible for a J > neophyte like myself to come up with anything like the "get" definition. ... This might perhaps be true of the tacit form of "get" that was given, but otherwise you would surely expect a complete beginner to be able to write an equivalent to "get" on their first day using J. The problem is, after all, completely trivial - look up a name in column 0, pick out the corresponding entry in column 1. Or following Roger's suggestion, look up a name in a list of names, pick out the corresponding data from a list of data. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 02:55:03 1999 From: "Simon Garland" References: <006701beaace$3bfbdfa0$d7b1ba89@f3nbp> Subject: Re: Jforum: Re: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:43:32 +0200 charset="iso-8859-1" yet another reason for having the keys and values distinct is that it allows you to have a vector of integers (partNumbers, customerIds, whatever..) as the keys, rather than needing a vector of enclosed integers - makes them much easier/faster to work with. see the sNDict subclass in my examples. /simon ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Hui Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 8:56 PM Subject: Jforum: Re: DICTIONARIES IN J > Chris Burke writes on Saturday, May 29: > > > Here is a quick and dirty method. Dictionaries is a nice idea and I > > would to have a script that implemented them. It likely would not have > > to be part of the interpreter. > > > > DAT=: _2 [\ 'bill';200 300 400;'madeline';150 200 250;'alan';160 > > 170 200 > > > > get=: [: > [: {: ] {~ ([: {."1 ]) i. [: {. [: boxopen [: , [ > > > > DAT > > +--------+-----------+ > > |bill |200 300 400| > > +--------+-----------+ > > |madeline|150 200 250| > > +--------+-----------+ > > |alan |160 170 200| > > +--------+-----------+ > > I recommend keeping the keys separate from the data. > As above, to do anything with the keys (i.e., to do anything), > you have to first do {"1 DAT . As well, if the keys are > separate, and the data are "fully inverted" (one field > per pronoun), the solution scales easily. For example, > you can readily use mapped variables. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 03:05:06 1999 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 01:53:42 -0500 From: Peter Nichols Subject: Jforum: jrelease.cnt When I go to Help/Release notes it gives me an error saying it can't find c:\j402\system\extras\help\jrelease.cnt. I have my install in 'j' not 'j402'. How do I redirect it to the real install directory? Thanks, Peter Nichols -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 10:20:33 1999 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:08:49 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Jforum: J 4.03 beta test period is over The J 4.03 beta test period is over. The beta download is no longer available and installed beta systems expire at the end of the day. The testing period has been very successful. With your great help, this next release is much improved over the initial version. Thanks! The J 4.03 release for Win 9x/NT will be available at the web site later today. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 10:49:51 1999 From: k-list@iname.com Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Subject: Jforum: VB-style modal form & proposed 'doevent' 001 in_commu= args 002 modalform.show 1 003 result= out_commu VB program in caller will not execute line 003 until modalform is destroyed. But counterpart in J will NOT wait, therefore some sort of synchronization is needed: 001 in_commu_=: args 002 busy_commu_=: 1 003 f=. '' conew 'modalform' 004 while. busy_commu_ do. wd 'doevent' end. 005 result=. out_commu_ Will it be possible to add a wd command 'doevent' which will waked up by any event (but won't consume the event). --------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 11:11:50 1999 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:55:22 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: VB-style modal form & proposed 'doevent' References: <99053110405441.11546@weba4.iname.net> You could use wd'wait' for a modal dialog. However, in all cases I have seen it is possible to restructure the application so that a modal state is not required. In my experience the extra effort to avoid the modal state is always repaid in full. Use ctrl+shift+F to search for wait in the J main directory. The only place Chris uses wd'wait' is for the verb that handles ctrl+d (editinputlogs) and wdselect. I think he agrees it would be better to rework these to not use wd'wait', but has not had time to do so. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 12:41:39 1999 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:37:10 +0300 From: Anssi Seppala Subject: Re: Jforum: VB-style modal form & proposed 'doevent' In-Reply-To: <3752A2DA.3456@interlog.com> References: <99053110405441.11546@weba4.iname.net> Eric, I had this question in mind few months ago and I did not understand your answer to avoid wait. The point to the understanding was that you must give the parent control an owner property. Then it keeps the other forms in background until closed. Anssi At 10:55 31.5.1999 -0400, you wrote: >You could use wd'wait' for a modal dialog. However, in all cases I have >seen it is possible to restructure the application so that a modal state >is not required. In my experience the extra effort to avoid the modal >state is always repaid in full. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 13:44:28 1999 From: k-list@iname.com Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Subject: Re: Jforum: VB-style modal form & proposed 'doevent' If wd'wait' instead is used in line 004, it will remove every message in modalform, consequently event handlers in modalform receive no message at all. This is reason why a non-destructive wd'doevent' (similar to PeekMessage in winapi) being proposed. The modal state can be avoided by simply deleting all codes after line 003, so that the parentform go sleeping inside system's message loop. Then modalform invokes a callback function in parent form when it's about to destroy. 001 callback=: 3 : 0 002 result=. out_commu_ 003 [and other codes here] 004 ) But I don't if this is a better method or just a workaround. --------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 17:49:23 1999 From: "Chris Burke" Subject: Jforum: J403 CDROMs Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:02:26 -0400 charset="Windows-1252" The J403 CDROMS will likely not be shipped until Jun 19th, so Pro users may want to download the system first. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 18:02:45 1999 From: "Seymour Glass" Subject: RE: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 17:50:51 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com > [mailto:owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com]On Behalf Of Ajith Prasad > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 12:52 > To: 'Chris Burke '; 'forum@jsoftware.com ' > Subject: RE: Jforum: DICTIONARIES IN J > > > This is particularly neat - it gives me the basic building block for the > solution in J of the practical problem that I had tackled quite easily in > Python. The problem was: given the current salary of an individual on a > specified annual salary scale what would his/her salary be in n > years time. > Using Chris's "get" verb and the bx utility (bx=: #i.@#), the answer is > given by the following verb: > next=: 3 : 0 > 'd k v n'=. y. > ((bx (k get d)= v)+n){k get d > NB. d - dictionary;k - key > NB. v - value to be matched; n -offset from value to be matched > ) > Once the "get" verb had been defined, a solution to the problem in J has > turned out to be easy. It would, of course, have been impossible for a J > neophyte like myself to come up with anything like the "get" definition. If you like this kind of solution, you can use the utilities I offer below. Roger and Simon are correct that keeping the keys & data separate is faster, but I like to pass my (rather small) lists around as a single noun. These may not be so great, but I use them a lot & they work for me. Henry Rich NB. First, some utilities NB. Adverb: like @], but avoids the ] if monadic onyd_z_ =: ((]`]:) `:6) ony_z_ =: onyd (]. : [.) NB. Adverb: like @[ onx_z_ =: ((]`]:) `:6) ~ NB. Conjunction: u. unless y. is empty; then v. butifnull_z_ =: ((]."_)`[.) @. (*@# onyd) NB. u. v. y. if monad, x. u. (v. y.) if dyad bivalent_z_ =: [. ^: (1:`((]`].)`:6)) NB. y. is a boolean list NB. Result is the indices of the 1s booltondx_z_ =: # i.@# NB. Routines for keyed lists (lists of key ; data [, data]) NB. y. is list of key ; data NB. If x. is given, it is the length (in boxes) of the key NB. Result is the (boxed) keys keyskl_z_ =: {."1"_ NB. y. is list of key ; data NB. If x. is given, it is the length (in boxes) of the key NB. Result is the (boxed) data items with the keys removed datakl_z_ =: }."1 NB. x. is set of keys, y. is keyed list NB. Records with those keys are kept, the others are deleted keepkl_z_ =: (e.!.0~ keyskl) # ] NB. x. is set of keys, y. is keyed list NB. Result is index of x. into }: keys, but _1 if there is no match indexkl_z_ =: # onyd ((_1"_)`((# i.@#)@:=)`])} (i.!.0~ keyskl) NB. x. is set of keys, y. is keyed list NB. Result is list of all indexes that are matched by any x. allindexkl_z_ =: booltondx@:(e.~"1 0) keyskl NB. x. is set of keys, y. is keyed list NB. Result for each item of x. is 1 if x. is in the list inkl_z_ =: e.!.0 keyskl NB. x. is a (list of) boxed key value NB. y. is an n,m $ array of key ; data NB. Result is the boxed list following the key (always a vector) NB. y. must not be null! NB. The last element of y. is the default to use if no match on the rest getklboxed_z_ =: datakl@:(indexkl { ]) NB. Result is the unbox of the first data corresponding to the key getkl_z_ =: (indexkl (1&{::"1)@{ ]) NB. Not fastest, but little space NB. x. is a (list of) boxed key value NB. y. is an n,m $ array of key ; data NB. Result is the list of all boxed list items matching the key (always rank-2) getklboxedall_z_ =: datakl@:(allindexkl { ]) NB. Adverb: u. is default value to return (we link this to a null key) NB. x. is a (list of) boxed key value NB. y. is an n,m $ array of key ; data NB. Result is the selected items, including the key (always a vector) getklitemd_z_ =: (( ((i.!.0~) keyskl) ` ({ :: ((''&;) @ (]:"_) onx) " 0 _) ` ] ) `: 6) NB. Adverb: u. is default value to return (we link this to a null key) NB. x. is a (list of) boxed key value NB. y. is an n,m $ array of key ; data NB. Result is the boxed list following the key (always a vector) getklbd_z_ =: datakl @ getklitemd NB. Same, but result is unbox of the first data corresponding to the key getkld_z_ =: (0&{::"1) @ getklbd NB. Conjunction: u. is column number(s) to return, v. is default return NB. x. is the keys, y. is the keyed list. Return the selected columns (boxed) getklcolsudv_z_ =: ([.&{"1) @ (]. getklitemd) NB. y. is a list of key ; data NB. Result is the input, with duplicate keys removed (first one of multiples survives) nubkl_z_ =: #~ ~:@:keyskl NB. y. is list of key ; data NB. result is raze of the data with the keys removed razekl_z_ =: ; @: datakl NB. x. is set of keys, y. is keyed list NB. Records with those keys are deleted delkl_z_ =: -.@(e.!.0~ ((0&{)"_1)) # ] NB. Conjunction: apply u. to column number n. of y., but only in records with keys in x. applyoncolkl_z_ =: ]`( (([. (L:_1)) @: (].&{) onyd)`(]."_)`] } ) @. ({. uy_vx e.) "_ 1 NB. Adverb: x. is (list of) boxed key, y. is keyed list. Apply u. to the selected element(s) applytokl_z_ =: applyoncolkl 1 NB. Conjunction: u. is a predicate, v. is a (list of) column numbers NB. u. is applied to the BOXED array of selected elements of y. and the entire x. NB. Result is only those items which produce a nonzero predicate cullkl_z_ =: ([. bivalent (].&{"1) # ]) butifnull ] NB. *** end of keyed-list routines -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 18:05:25 1999 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:10:17 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: VB-style modal form & proposed 'doevent' References: <9905311333312X.12264@weba8.iname.net> k-list@iname.com wrote: > > If wd'wait' instead is used in line 004, it will remove every > message in modalform, consequently event handlers in modalform > receive no message at all. This is reason why a non-destructive > wd'doevent' (similar to PeekMessage in winapi) being proposed. > > The modal state can be avoided by simply deleting all codes > after line 003, so that the parentform go sleeping inside > system's message loop. Then modalform invokes a callback function > in parent form when it's about to destroy. > > 001 callback=: 3 : 0 > 002 result=. out_commu_ > 003 [and other codes here] > 004 ) > > But I don't if this is a better method or just a workaround. After wd'wait', you can do the event dispatching the same way wdhandler does. You could just call wdhandler, or you can specifically process events more directly the way wdselect does. I think this has pretty much the same effect as doevent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 18:10:39 1999 From: "Chris Burke" Subject: Jforum: J403 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:52:27 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" J Release 4.03 for Windows 9x/NT is now available at www.jsoftware.com. Highlights of the new release: * New ODBC support gives you performance improvements and significant new functionality such as support for stored procedures. * A GUI Debugger gives you the ability to step through execution, viewing the stack and local definitions, set stops and watch names. * A completely new Code Editor with many new features including shortcuts, drag and drop editing, support for tabs, quick line selection etc. that will make programming in J more productive. The editor accommodates very large files. * Session and edit windows now have customizable syntax coloring. * HTML Publish lets you publish scripts in HTML format. * Color support has been added for Forms and Controls * Other changes include improvements to the Project Manager, and several performance improvements. For more information, download the system and see the Release Notes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm From owner-jsoftware@lists.interlog.com Mon May 31 18:19:00 1999 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:20:09 -0400 From: Eric Iverson Organization: Iverson Software Inc. Subject: Re: Jforum: jrelease.cnt References: <375231F6.42B6@airmail.net> Peter Nichols wrote: > When I go to Help/Release notes it gives me an error saying it can't > find c:\j402\system\extras\help\jrelease.cnt. I have my install in 'j' > not 'j402'. How do I redirect it to the real install directory? Windows help is mysterious in how it find things (or doesn't). If you installed the beta on top of an existing J install, it is possible the old files are confusing help. Try clearing the j directory and doing the install again. A more likely explanation is that at some point you opened a J help file from outside of J (for example, clicking it in explorer). In some cases (but not all), help will then make a copy of cnt files in a windows system directory. Finding one of these old J cnt files may be the problem. Do a search for j*.cnt files and see if this is the case. If so, get rid of the J ones that don't belong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J Forum: for information about this list, see http://www.jsoftware.com/forum.htm