America Online APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG Tuesday, September 25, 1990 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time Topic: Alternate Operating Systems Tech OS Operating System - Red Team Software Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet) QRJ Flash Got an ORCA Pascal question if anyone is able AFL Dyfet Sure, Flash, GA... QRJ Flash Thanks Dyfet... how can I get the error code result of a GSOS call? Dave Lyons What language, Flash? QRJ Flash ORCA Pascal AFL Dyfet Okay, Flash currently has the floor for his ORCA Pascal question...we will AFL Dyfet begin tonight's event after FLash... QRJ Flash I am using ORCA Pascal to read in a screen image and chomp pieces of it. QRJ Flash I am crashing in the ReadGS call, and suspect I am getting an error from the QRJ Flash OpenGS call. QRJ Flash How can I check for errors after each call?? ToolError doesn't catch it. AFL Scott Are you using StdFile to get the pathname? QRJ Flash no...I am hardcoding the pathname in the file. QRJ Flash I'm building graphics resources. QRJ Flash I mean hardcoding it in the program. Sorry. AFL Scott Is it a GS/OS string or a pascal string? QRJ Flash I am attempting to convert it to a GSOSInstring QRJ Flash from a pascal string QRJ Flash but again... I get no feedback other than a GLORIOUS monitor crash. AFL Scott Does the file open properly? QRJ Flash I don't know! The program continues after the open, but crashes in the Read QRJ Flash call. AFL Scott I don't understand...How do you know it's in the Read call? QRJ Flash I copy the refnum from the open param block to the read param block QRJ Flash Scott, because I print a string between the two calls that says "I made it..." Dave Lyons Try printing the reference number--if it's 0, the Open failed. QRJ Flash OK, thanks Dave. Dave Lyons (Mmm...you may have to stuff a 0 in the record *before* the open for that to be true, actually.) Dave Lyons A good refnum is definitely nonzero. QRJ Flash I take it there is no system function or peek to pick up GSOS error codes? Dave Lyons (I *thought* ToolError worked for ORCA/Pascal OS errors, actually--but I don't use that env.) Dave Lyons The system simply returns GS/OS errors in the accumulator--it's up to your languague Dave Lyons environment to give you a way at that result. AFL Scott I did, too Dave... try SystemError and see what happens. QRJ Flash OK. Well, thanks for listening! I shall go bang my head against it some more :) QRJ Flash Take care! AFA Parik you can email mikew50 to get info, btw QRJ Flash I shall EMail MikeW if I don't get anywhere tonight. Dave Lyons Scott, what happens? I don't have ORCA/P handy. AFL Scott I don't know...not my program.. one of the errors it can return is File not open, though. AFL Dyfet Good evening and welcome to the Apple II Development Forum....Tonight we will AFL Dyfet be discussing alternative operating systems for the Apple II. What products AFL Dyfet are there? Do they work? how compatible are they? What environments would AFL Dyfet one want to see on the II? These and other questions will be covered. We will AFL Dyfet be using protocol starting now. This means that if you wish to ask a question, AFL Dyfet you must enter a '?' on a line by itself, and if you wish to make a comment on AFL Dyfet the current question, you must enter a '!' on a line by itself. You will AFL Dyfet each be called to speak in turn.... AFL Dyfet We do have several guests (Red Team) who are responsible for one of these AFL Dyfet alternative (non-Apple supplied) operating environments with us tonight AFL Dyfet (Tech OS). I will start by giving the floor over to Red Team so that he may AFL Dyfet introduce himself and us to Tech OS...Red Team (or Rep Rep 2), you now have AFL Dyfet the floor... Red Team Okay... to begin the discussion about Tech OS, Read Rep 2 and I will describe Red Team the advantages and disadvantages of using our OS. Red Team Through using Tech OS, you will be using a smaller, faster, and easiler to Red Team use operating system. Red Team All of the features are covered in one manual, well documented with examples. Red Team Red Team, Inc is offering this OS at a low price to appeal to programmers Red Team of all types of business. Red Team To start off, let me describe the compiler included with Tech OS. Red Team Before that, let me introduce myself... Red Team My name is Clinton D. Wong, and I am the main programmer of TechOS, Red Rep 2 my name is Ginger D. Wong, and I will be acting as a consultant Red Rep 2 to this development chat on OS's Red Team Okay, on to the compiler. Red Team The compiler used with TechOS has most all the features of today's compiler. Red Team Any assembler programmer who knows merlin or 65816 will be at home with Red Team the Tech OS compiler. Most all commands are similar to that used with Merlin, Red Team including Ram locations (example:strout), toolbox calls (like _FFSoundStart) Red Team and of course, the TechOS command set (like: _ReadTechOSvol). Red Team The commands are included within the manual, as well as in disk-form, for Red Team easy recall when the manual isn't handy. Red Team As a bonus, this compiler also uses external files to emulate other compilers. Red Team For instance, if you wanted to port your basic, pascal, or C code into Tech OS Red Team form, all you have to do is add this to your code: Red Team Include: Basic, Pascal, C Red Team And when you want to switch from one language to another, you would then enter Red Team "Mode: Basic" or "Mode: Pascal". Red Team Global variables from each language can be used within the other languages Red Team that you use. Red Team Also, you don't sacrifice compatability. If you were programming in basic, Red Team you could enter "pushstack $0000" and then another call like "_FFSoundStart." Red Team Are there any questions so far? AFL Dyfet Go ahead Goalie... Goalie5 If I make a program under Tech OS, can I launch it from the finder? (Missed the Goalie5 first couple of minutes) :) Red Team From GS/OS you would have problems... more about compatability later tonight. Goalie5 is it a completely seperate operating system? Red Team Yes, Tech OS is completely seperate from other OS's. However, to shed some Red Team light on your question, programs created under ProDOS 8 can easily be converted Red Team to TechOS form. Goalie5 How much must we pay for this new OS? Goalie5 :) Red Team At at introductory price, the Tech OS boot code, shell, and compiler will be Red Team offered at a mere $35, without extra shipping and handling. Red Team This price is temporary, so if you're interested, buy sooner and it will be Red Team cheaper. Goalie5 Where can we get it from? Red Team Ordering information can be reached at: Clinton D. Wong, PO Box 433, Gurnee Red Team IL, 60031. You could leave e-mail here in America Online at Red Team, Red Team find us on CompuServe at 72047,1005. Or you could mail us on internet at Red Team clint@chinet.chi.il.us or Red Rep 2 arn@mentor.cc.purdue.edu for Ginger Wong Red Rep 2 hold on, sorry, I meant arn@sage.cc.purdue.edu for Ginger Wong AFL Dyfet Sounds like I could port some Command.COM shell utilities :)...Go ahead Parik. Goalie5 Can you install GS>OS and tech OS on same HD? AFA Parik (its ffstartsound :) I don't understand the diff. compilers - if I have some AFA Parik (ga?) Red Team Okay.. Red Team Let me give you an example... Red Team If you had a pascal program like the following: Red Team Program so.and.so...; Red Team var temp1:integer; Red Team begin; Red Team end. Red Team while later on in the same source code, you could write a program like this: Red Team in basic, 10 PRINT temp1. Red Team Basically what would happen is that the value at temp1 will print out. Red Team You can program more than one language, and have all of the variables linked Red Team together with another language, Red Team and execure them all at the same time. AFL Dyfet So it is a multi-lingual compiler??? AFA Parik ok, it doesn't actually compile each language type. ga Red Team Yes, it is a multi-lingual compiler. AFA Parik whoah, it does pascal, c, basic,assembly? wow. done Red Team It converts the source code into machine language and any labels or variables Red Team can be accessed from any language. AFL Dyfet Are there any runtime libraries, such as for common C functions? Red Rep 2 which C are you referring to AFL? Red Rep 2 just regular C? or Turbo-C? AFL Dyfet As in ANSI or K&R library function for printf, etc... AFL Dyfet In other words, is there a C lib behind the C language compiler... Red Rep 2 Ok.... Red Rep 2 you mean the C where you have #include's? Red Team Yes, there is a C library that you can include. AFL Dyfet I really mean the functions you link from the standard C library, but yes... Red Rep 2 oh, the functions, like math.h and so on AFL Dyfet Yes... AFL Dyfet Yes... Red Team Yes, C librarys are supported for those functions. AFL Dyfet Okay...Go ahead Dave Lyons...enough on C for now :)... Dave Lyons 2 questions: (1) Can your compiled programs read/write ProDOS disks? (2) Does a Tech OS program Dave Lyons have access to any GS Toolbox functions that Dave Lyons aren't in ROM, or to any patches Apple releases to the parts that are in ROM? Red Team To answer the first question, yes, TechOS can read and write to ProDOS disks, Red Team hard drives, etc. To answer Goalie's question in it, TechOS can exist on Red Team your current PrDOS 8 volumes without disturbing the data. Red Team Both of them share the bit space bitmap and there aren't any problems Red Team with using both. Dave Lyons So ProDOS *isn't* your native file system? Red Team No, ProDOS isn't the native language. However, since Tech OS and ProDOS 8 Red Team don't use the same memory, you could have ProDOS 8 and TechOS loaded and Red Team se both within the same program. This does not apply to Zaplink S16 files, Red Team another disadvantage. Dave Lyons One more thing (maybe I missed this): Is TechOS only for the GS, or for other Apple IIs too? Red Team TechOS was designed to be the ProDOS 8 of the IIgs... if you look Red Team at the IIe, you would see that ProDOS 8 is fine... no extras to load and Red Team worry about. When Apple Computer, Inc. had the IIgs, they jumped to the Red Team GS/OS. As some have complained, it is not extremely fast, though it is Red Team easy to use. Red Team Basically, Tech OS is your ProDOS 8 for the IIgs, smaller, faster, easier to Red Team use, with IIgs capability. Dave Lyons Okay, thanks. Done. AFL Dyfet Okay, A2, you have the floor now... A2GS I had a problem last week which produced several solutions...I've come up with A2GS what I think is the best solution so far and I just want to make sure it A2GS doesn't have any problems....the original question was, how to get more then A2GS 1 bank of memory and make sure it was bank aligned... Red Team To get 1 bank of memory.... from where? The memory manager? A2GS The solution.... Request the # of banks of memory + 1....con'd A2GS yes A2GS then check if the memory is already bank aligned...is so then deallocate the A2GS handle and only request the # of banks you actually need (so as not to waste A2GS any memory)...if not then add 1 to the bank the mem. manager started A2GS allocating memory from...then deallocate all the memory you just requested and A2GS request the # of banks you actually need, specifying the address of where the A2GS memory should start...MM bank+1 with a low word address of 0000. A2GS done AFL Dyfet We are not really fielding memory manager questions tonight A2, however, if we AFL Dyfet have time after this conf....GA Parik...You have the floor now... A2GS sorry...I didn't realize this was the wrong day for MM Q's. AFA Parik ok, i'm totally lost on TechOS. It sounds like a super-program for $35?? AFA Parik Its _NOT_ a C/Basic/Pascal compiler, is it? ie, it won't take a orca/c source AFA Parik code file, compile it, and turn it into a program! likewise for TML Pascal II Red Team As I've mentioned before, it is only a intro price to get programming support Red Team by developers. As more support is given by programmers, the price will Red Team go up as more people start using it. The low price is insanely low, and Red Team almost killing the budget, but it is a great way to get people to try it out... Red Team The price shouldn't descourage anyone from purchasing it, so Red Team made Red Team sure that the price was low enough. AFA Parik so will it make "main() { printf("hello,world.\n")"; } " a run-able file? Red Team Yes, the compiler will turn it into a runnable file... all the global variables Red Team that you use will also be accessable to any other language code that you Red Team use within the same program. AFA Parik I didn't ask if variables are global...will it compile C code? is it a C AFA Parik compiler? Red Team Yes, it is a C compiler, and also doubles as Pascal, BASIC, and 65816. Red Team More questions? AFL Dyfet Go ahead Marty... AFL Marty May I have the address again? Red Team Sure: USMail: Clinton D. Wong, PO Box 433, Gurnee, IL, 60031. AFL Marty (followup too) Red Team CIS: 72047,1005, America Online: Red Team, network: clint@chinet.chi.il.us Red Rep 2 Internet: arn@sage.cc.purdue.edu AFL Marty Do you have any programs or demos written using TechOS and, if so, are AFL Marty they available online? Red Team As of now, there are no public demos available... please watch for them in Red Team the following weeks. AFL Marty Thanks. Done. AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any other questions out there for tonights topic or TechOS? Red Team Feel free to give Red Team a ring for more questions... a topic we've run Red Team out of time is about the shell and other utilities, but more info will be Red Team available through mail/net-mail. Red Rep 2 The address and e-mail addresses will be posted Red Rep 2 for further reference AFL Dyfet Go ahead Paul... PaulH54 Thank you. I recall a teaser earlier about minix. Is that to be ported PaulH54 to the IIgs platform anytime soon? AFL Dyfet I have not myself heard anything about it, but a lot of people talk about doing AFL Dyfet it :) PaulH54 thanks PaulH54 done AFL Dyfet Go ahead Scott... AFL Scott Has anyone experienced problems with GS/OS on hard disk partitions.... AFL Scott when they are nearing full? I've got two drives that are slowly eating themselves. AFL Scott BTW, the problems only show up after I have started AFL Scott cleaning them up by deleting files. AFL Scott GA, Paul. AFL Dyfet Go ahead Paul... PaulH54 Thank you. I recall problems with the CMS scsi cards and drives eating PaulH54 themselves when they got full. I've not had that problem with Apple's PaulH54 cards. PaulH54 done AFL Scott I've got DMA SCSI from Apple... And the other Apple SCSI board... problem shows up on both AFL Scott controllers... I'm running memory diags, now, to see AFL Scott if the problem is in expansion ram. AFL Scott Dave, has anyone reported anything like this to Apple that wasn't hardware? AFL Scott Better yet, have you heard of anyone reporting? :) Dave Lyons I don't remember anything like that... AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any other Q's for tonight?? AFL Scott Thanks!:) PaulH54 Thanks y'all. AFA Gary J Interesting conference.