2020-02-09T03:18:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> question: config files in /etc/ , when they get updated with a new version, say with new or changed options from upstream, how does that work in a kiss system? Iirc it doesn't just overwrite them?
2020-02-09T05:20:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: The /etc/ file is updated if the user hasn't modified the file (or if their modifiction matches the new file)
2020-02-09T05:21:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Else it is named $file.new.
2020-02-09T06:13:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: question about /etc/ files. how do they get handled by kiss
2020-02-09T06:13:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I answered
2020-02-09T06:13:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> ah, will check log
2020-02-09T06:13:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > adamantium: The /etc/ file is updated if the user hasn't modified the file (or if their modifiction matches the new file)
2020-02-09T06:14:04 #kisslinux <adamantium> does "install" juts do this for us by default?
2020-02-09T06:14:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> or is this a kiss thing
2020-02-09T06:14:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a new feature
2020-02-09T06:14:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Old behavior was to *always* silently skip updating /etc/ files if they existed.
2020-02-09T06:14:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (already existed)
2020-02-09T06:15:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Now we do a 3-way-handshake
2020-02-09T06:15:03 #kisslinux <adamantium> ok that makes sense
2020-02-09T06:15:10 #kisslinux <adamantium> the old behavior is definitely not good
2020-02-09T06:15:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> cool
2020-02-09T06:15:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-02-09T06:15:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's done in a backwards compatible way too
2020-02-09T06:15:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> one thing
2020-02-09T06:15:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> When the file is modified, I still want the new etc file. Where did it go
2020-02-09T06:15:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> New builds will have an etcsums file which stores the checksums of all /etc/ files.
2020-02-09T06:15:53 #kisslinux <adamantium> ;)
2020-02-09T06:15:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> $file.new
2020-02-09T06:16:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> perfect!
2020-02-09T06:16:07 #kisslinux <adamantium> so like arch, then
2020-02-09T06:16:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The package manager will tell you about this when it happens
2020-02-09T06:16:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Basically we check original checksum of current version, checksum in /etc and checksum in new version
2020-02-09T06:16:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The 3 are compared
2020-02-09T06:17:30 #kisslinux <adamantium> ok. as long as we have a *.new file, sitting right there for me to search for using find, i'm a happy camper
2020-02-09T06:17:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Depending on how the 3 match, we install the file as .new or overwrite it.
2020-02-09T06:17:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: Yup
2020-02-09T06:17:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's the gist of it
2020-02-09T06:18:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> I was all worried about it today, lol
2020-02-09T06:18:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> I don't know why.
2020-02-09T06:18:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> When did you add this feature?
2020-02-09T06:18:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 2-3 days ago iirc
2020-02-09T06:18:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> nice
2020-02-09T06:18:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> kiss seems about complete, then
2020-02-09T06:18:45 #kisslinux <adamantium> now
2020-02-09T06:19:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> my friend complains it handles deps too simplistically for his needs
2020-02-09T06:20:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Does he mean not tracking versions?
2020-02-09T06:20:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> yes
2020-02-09T06:20:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thought so
2020-02-09T06:20:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-02-09T06:20:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's a mess I'd rather not deal with
2020-02-09T06:20:23 #kisslinux <adamantium> he said it's impossible to implement cleanly in shell
2020-02-09T06:20:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> a good resolver
2020-02-09T06:20:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Our resolver is fine as-is
2020-02-09T06:20:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-02-09T06:20:53 #kisslinux <adamantium> right
2020-02-09T06:20:57 #kisslinux <adamantium> i told him to juts use overlays
2020-02-09T06:20:58 #kisslinux <adamantium> lmao
2020-02-09T06:21:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-02-09T06:21:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Versioning dependencies is gross
2020-02-09T06:21:26 #kisslinux <adamantium> he said that's a workaround but would only work on a case by case
2020-02-09T06:21:30 #kisslinux <adamantium> ahhhhhhhh
2020-02-09T06:21:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'd rather ensure the system stay up to date
2020-02-09T06:22:03 #kisslinux <adamantium> his other complaint was the tarball requires root??? idk hes maybe paranoid on that
2020-02-09T06:22:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> To unpack, yeah
2020-02-09T06:22:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (For the chroot)
2020-02-09T06:22:21 #kisslinux <adamantium> right
2020-02-09T06:22:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It contains files/dirs with root permissions
2020-02-09T06:22:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a mini-system...
2020-02-09T06:22:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> he actually is very good tho and taught me everything i know in the past. so I was hoping to drag him over here to help us. but just sharing his complaints now to you haha
2020-02-09T06:23:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> His complaints are wrong :^)
2020-02-09T06:23:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> yeah hes stuck in gentoo mindsent
2020-02-09T06:23:21 #kisslinux <adamantium> mindset
2020-02-09T06:23:33 #kisslinux <adamantium> he can have his ebuild hell then
2020-02-09T06:23:49 #kisslinux <adamantium> and broken second-class citizen musl ebuilds
2020-02-09T06:24:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-02-09T06:24:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> i speak truth on this
2020-02-09T06:24:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> have you tried musl gentoo before?
2020-02-09T06:24:45 #kisslinux <adamantium> and ebuilds mixing the metadata with the ebuild egggggg
2020-02-09T06:25:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've never used Gentoo :^)
2020-02-09T06:25:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> oh wow
2020-02-09T06:25:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> what source based distros have you tried before making kiss?
2020-02-09T06:25:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I started KISS knowing nothing about this stuff
2020-02-09T06:25:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> None
2020-02-09T06:25:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> lmao
2020-02-09T06:25:50 #kisslinux <adamantium> that makes sense
2020-02-09T06:26:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> explains the kiss development process. one thing pops up after another like wackamole
2020-02-09T06:26:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> but it's turning out pretty good now !
2020-02-09T06:26:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> heh
2020-02-09T06:26:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Had KISS installed on my laptop month 3 iirc
2020-02-09T06:26:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> The distros only been public for like two months xD
2020-02-09T06:26:45 #kisslinux <adamantium> oh
2020-02-09T06:26:53 #kisslinux <adamantium> i think 1 more thing
2020-02-09T06:26:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> Of course it's been whackamole
2020-02-09T06:27:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> we should reconsider targetting other arches
2020-02-09T06:27:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> dont kill me
2020-02-09T06:27:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> :D
2020-02-09T06:28:08 #kisslinux <adamantium> i wanna get a power9 talos pc someday ya know
2020-02-09T06:28:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nothing stops you
2020-02-09T06:28:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://github.com/jedavies-dev/kiss-ppc64le
2020-02-09T06:28:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> i know
2020-02-09T06:28:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: https://github.com/jedavies-dev/kiss-aarch64
2020-02-09T06:28:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> but i'm saying the website says basically "we dont do that"
2020-02-09T06:28:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-02-09T06:28:41 #kisslinux <adamantium> it could be put another way perhaps........
2020-02-09T06:28:45 #kisslinux <adamantium> in other words.
2020-02-09T06:28:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Better to be up front about it
2020-02-09T06:28:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'd rather not deal with it at all
2020-02-09T06:29:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's not that hard to maintain a repository for another Arch, see: https://github.com/jedavies-dev/kiss-ppc64le/tree/master/repo/libelf
2020-02-09T06:29:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Any package fixes can be made to singular files and the rest symlinks to the original
2020-02-09T06:30:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> cross-compilation is something I said "nope" to right at the start
2020-02-09T06:30:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's disgusting to implement and so very error prone
2020-02-09T06:30:45 #kisslinux <adamantium> makes it a "toy" to many
2020-02-09T06:30:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's fine
2020-02-09T06:30:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> if it can't be used in embedded officially
2020-02-09T06:31:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So long as it can run on my machine I'm happy
2020-02-09T06:31:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> okie dokie
2020-02-09T06:31:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I work on this for free remember ;)
2020-02-09T06:31:53 #kisslinux <adamantium> Right
2020-02-09T06:32:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hence the intentional limited scope
2020-02-09T06:32:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> I'm thinking it could gain more traction with an embedded community if we worked toward that, heck it could employ you perhaps
2020-02-09T06:32:28 #kisslinux <adamantium> people would send you hardware and stuff
2020-02-09T06:32:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I won't work in technology
2020-02-09T06:32:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is my love
2020-02-09T06:33:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'd rather not turn it into work
2020-02-09T06:33:03 #kisslinux <adamantium> gotchya
2020-02-09T06:33:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/0cda243d535f11e7c26b9182bc63e425deb5ba45
2020-02-09T06:33:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is how old KISS is btw
2020-02-09T06:33:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> do you have a day job or somehow just cruisin through life?
2020-02-09T06:34:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm working on something on the side
2020-02-09T06:34:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not tech related but will cover everything and extra
2020-02-09T06:35:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> k
2020-02-09T06:35:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've paused it for the time being since I've been dealing with a myriad of sick cats and now a sick Grandma at home :P
2020-02-09T06:36:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> sorry
2020-02-09T06:41:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: i wonder if it is possible to build everything static if you dont install X11 stuff
2020-02-09T06:41:23 #kisslinux <adamantium> do you know by chance?
2020-02-09T06:42:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> imlib2 is a no go
2020-02-09T06:42:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Some other packages too
2020-02-09T06:42:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The bulk of it should be fine though.
2020-02-09T06:42:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Python is a tricky one for example
2020-02-09T06:46:10 #kisslinux <adamantium> what's your opinion of reproduceable pkg managers like nix
2020-02-09T06:46:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reproducible builds you mean?
2020-02-09T06:46:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> yea
2020-02-09T06:46:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Great for a binary based distribution
2020-02-09T06:47:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Doesn't fit a source based one though
2020-02-09T06:47:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> i feel like everyone is trying to solve this dependency problem and only static linking or hacks like nix actually address it
2020-02-09T06:47:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reproducible builds don't work if every user has different packages installed with different compiler flags, etc etc
2020-02-09T06:48:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also when the user modifies the package itself in some way (Adding their own patches, config.h, etc)
2020-02-09T06:48:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> we should market on the website that our base is static, and may be [your choice] of busybox/suckless/gnu
2020-02-09T06:49:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> it is a selling point
2020-02-09T06:49:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm going to write a blanket point about choice
2020-02-09T06:49:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reminder: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.html
2020-02-09T06:53:21 #kisslinux <adamantium> s/linux/fedora/g
2020-02-09T06:53:33 #kisslinux <adamantium> fixed his article
2020-02-09T06:53:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No no
2020-02-09T06:53:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's Linux
2020-02-09T06:56:33 #kisslinux <adamantium> im saying that fedora/RHEL might not be about choice, according to him, he works there, but who is he to say on the whole about Linux. He commit the same falacy
2020-02-09T06:56:43 #kisslinux <adamantium> (as the people he was critisizing)
2020-02-09T06:56:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Red Hat controls majority of the stack
2020-02-09T06:58:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How much choice do you really have on a system running systemd, dbus, polkit, pam, pulseaudio, etc etc
2020-02-09T06:58:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm talking about binary distributions here
2020-02-09T06:59:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm not talking about which WM or music player you can install either. I'm talking about the lower level software
2020-02-09T06:59:49 #kisslinux <adamantium> im with you on this
2020-02-09T07:01:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> maybe enterprise is not about choice is a better way to put things
2020-02-09T07:01:42 #kisslinux <adamantium> is what i'm driving at
2020-02-09T07:04:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Power went out
2020-02-09T07:04:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It's more about proprietary software running on all distributions
2020-02-09T07:04:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Linux needs to become a singular "platform"
2020-02-09T07:04:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Think Windows or MacOS here
2020-02-09T07:06:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> a very good point
2020-02-09T07:10:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Wifi got a little wonky
2020-02-09T07:11:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Should be good now
2020-02-09T07:13:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Wayland further makes this true if you look at GNOME (also see their blog posts). As every Wayland "compositor" must implement protocol extensions (GNOME have their own, KDE theirs, etc) you're looking at platforms already.
2020-02-09T07:13:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Hard to write something to work on all of Wayland
2020-02-09T07:13:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It's just a protocol after all ;)
2020-02-09T07:23:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> (There's a push to allow software developers to also become distributors of software)
2020-02-09T07:23:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> (Using fragmentation as the underlying issue)
2020-02-09T07:24:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> (Pair this with the push to remove the *need* for terminal usage)
2020-02-09T07:24:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> And... we have paid app stores!
2020-02-09T07:24:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/appcenter-for-everyone/#/
2020-02-09T07:24:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Appcenter for everyone!
2020-02-09T07:49:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> abandon all hope, ye who enter here basically
2020-02-09T07:50:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> :^)
2020-02-09T07:51:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> look at that lts arch libre distro, what it called
2020-02-09T07:51:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> they're moving towards openbsd kernel
2020-02-09T07:51:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> hyperbola!
2020-02-09T07:52:07 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://www.hyperbola.info/
2020-02-09T07:52:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I don't think that's a solution to the problem
2020-02-09T07:52:22 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://www.hyperbola.info/news/announcing-hyperbolabsd-roadmap/
2020-02-09T07:52:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I don't think this will ever work either
2020-02-09T07:52:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> Due to the Linux kernel rapidly proceeding down an unstable path, we are planning on implementing a completely new OS derived from several BSD implementations.
2020-02-09T07:52:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It's a lot of work
2020-02-09T07:53:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Their dealing with OpenBSD upstream will be interesting too
2020-02-09T07:53:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> dealings*
2020-02-09T07:53:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> ya why not just move to openbsd
2020-02-09T07:53:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> that'
2020-02-09T07:53:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> that's what i'd do
2020-02-09T07:53:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> For instance, them swapping to Xenocara over Xorg makes no real sense
2020-02-09T07:54:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Xenocara is just Xorg with a different build system and some OpenBSD related change
2020-02-09T07:54:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> they've still yet to figure out how to remove polkit
2020-02-09T07:54:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> changes*
2020-02-09T07:54:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> They just pull from Xorg upstream mostly...
2020-02-09T07:54:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> OpenBSD downloads firmware blobs on first boot fyi.
2020-02-09T07:54:59 #kisslinux <adamantium> i mean dbus. https://www.hyperbola.info/todo/dbus-mitigation/
2020-02-09T07:55:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Hardware support isn't good either
2020-02-09T07:55:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> deblobbed kernels suck unless you buy the perfect 15 year old hardware
2020-02-09T07:56:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It's far easier to start from scratch than to try and remove everything from a "done" distribution
2020-02-09T07:56:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> The issue is that it's automated and automatic
2020-02-09T07:56:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Also, bye bye bluetooth full stop on OpenBSD (KISS doesn't support bluetooth either though all you have to do is install dbus)
2020-02-09T07:57:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It's a weird change to me. (Swapping to OpenBSD's kernel)
2020-02-09T07:57:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I doubt it'll ever be done
2020-02-09T07:57:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> knowing me i will package dbus polkit and systemd for you
2020-02-09T07:57:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> just kiddin
2020-02-09T07:57:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> OpenBSD is very tied to... OpenBSD
2020-02-09T07:57:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> but kiss is a really cool concept, that it's not too difficult to unkiss your machine if you want
2020-02-09T07:58:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It's different to Linux where the kernel is detached from userspace
2020-02-09T07:58:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Development is by different parties on both sides (most of the time)
2020-02-09T07:58:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> OpenBSD has the same developers working on both
2020-02-09T07:58:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Pros and cons here
2020-02-09T07:58:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> right
2020-02-09T07:58:41 #kisslinux <adamantium> i've played a good deal with freebsd and some openbsd
2020-02-09T07:58:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> But in terms of ripping out its kernel... Good luck
2020-02-09T07:59:10 #kisslinux <adamantium> yeah! even kfreebsd on debian failed
2020-02-09T07:59:26 #kisslinux <adamantium> and they're going to do it with openbsd 0.o
2020-02-09T07:59:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> i mean i hope they pull it off..................
2020-02-09T08:00:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> But history shows these ambitious ideas fail small fringe distros
2020-02-09T08:00:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yup
2020-02-09T08:01:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> i would be angry if i was tasked with replacing a linux kernel with the openbsd one
2020-02-09T08:02:23 #kisslinux <adamantium> i would rather play with something like minix or haiku
2020-02-09T08:02:36 #kisslinux <adamantium> that sounds exciting
2020-02-09T08:03:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I wanted a Linux distribution where the stack wouldn't disappear below my feet
2020-02-09T08:04:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I didn't want to one day wake up to find I'm now using pipewire for example
2020-02-09T08:04:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-02-09T08:04:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> (Pipewire is set to replace Pulseaudio...)
2020-02-09T08:04:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> right
2020-02-09T08:04:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Because we need to change things again
2020-02-09T08:04:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I'm sure it'll be a smooth and 100% error free process
2020-02-09T08:04:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> But it's OK! Pipewire can run on top of Pulseaudio
2020-02-09T08:05:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Which runs on top of ALSA
2020-02-09T08:05:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> for real?
2020-02-09T08:05:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Nothing can go wrong
2020-02-09T08:05:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yes
2020-02-09T08:05:23 #kisslinux <adamantium> pipewire will run on pulse?????????/
2020-02-09T08:07:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> https://github.com/PipeWire/pipewire/blob/c63f0ed562ac8fe991a2ff6e4d58772a54290b55/doc/pulseaudio.md
2020-02-09T08:07:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Some info here
2020-02-09T08:08:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Let me find the source I'm talking about
2020-02-09T08:08:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> This is good reading too: https://github.com/PipeWire/pipewire/blob/c63f0ed562ac8fe991a2ff6e4d58772a54290b55/doc/design.txt#L44
2020-02-09T08:11:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> There we go: https://github.com/PipeWire/pipewire/blob/e1e93e5a88119f49ac5364d2cc023dbe42c18240/meson_options.txt#L21-L32
2020-02-09T08:12:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> You can probably add JACK to the audio stack too
2020-02-09T08:12:24 #kisslinux <adamantium> looking
2020-02-09T08:12:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> ALSA -> JACK -> Pulseaudio -> Pipewire
2020-02-09T08:12:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> sndio somewhere doesn't seem possible :(
2020-02-09T08:13:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps2: wait a minute, back on the other topic, so appcenter devs want us to contribute to them so they can meetup IRL? Because they can't dev this amazing idea over the internet like literally everybody else in OSS?
2020-02-09T08:13:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yes
2020-02-09T08:13:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> For a week long "sprint"
2020-02-09T08:13:39 #kisslinux <adamantium> it's a fail idea from the start then
2020-02-09T08:13:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> They also want to bundle the payments system into each flatpak so you get a dialog asking for $$$ on open
2020-02-09T08:14:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-02-09T08:14:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Linux really needed the Windows workflow for downloading software...
2020-02-09T08:14:43 #kisslinux <adamantium> the money is in enterprise support not people like us (obviously we are cheap skates on linux for a hobby, many of us)
2020-02-09T08:14:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Google "app name" -> Go to website (is it the right one?) -> Download executable -> Run it
2020-02-09T08:15:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> What could go wrong?
2020-02-09T08:15:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> https://flatkill.org/
2020-02-09T08:15:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> And each "app" bundles its dependencies! (Sound familiar?)
2020-02-09T08:16:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I'll just twiddle my thumbs over here on KISS :^)
2020-02-09T08:20:21 #kisslinux <adamantium> can i specify the branch of a -git build
2020-02-09T08:20:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> i have a package in mind where i will need to
2020-02-09T08:20:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yeah
2020-02-09T08:20:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> #branch
2020-02-09T08:20:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Instead of commit
2020-02-09T08:21:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> wait, in the source file right?
2020-02-09T08:21:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yeah
2020-02-09T08:21:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> *should* work
2020-02-09T08:21:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> As everything after '#' is passed to 'git checkout'
2020-02-09T08:21:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> git+https://github...#testing
2020-02-09T08:21:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> or what you?
2020-02-09T08:21:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yup
2020-02-09T08:21:50 #kisslinux <adamantium> ok
2020-02-09T08:22:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> time for an emacs-git package then, tracking 27
2020-02-09T08:22:51 #kisslinux <adamantium> they introduced some json functions for better lsp support
2020-02-09T08:23:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> i dont understand the technical details, but yeah
2020-02-09T08:23:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> heh
2020-02-09T08:23:50 #kisslinux <adamantium> they also added a new 'pdumper'
2020-02-09T08:24:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> when used, it will make emacs startup times for people with bloated setups (10+seconds loading) to less than a second
2020-02-09T08:24:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> i have heard
2020-02-09T08:24:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Nice
2020-02-09T08:28:05 #kisslinux <adamantium> i wonder if anyone has used kiss in "production" yet
2020-02-09T08:28:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Good question
2020-02-09T08:29:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> kinda a scary thought
2020-02-09T08:29:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I don't even know how many users there are
2020-02-09T08:29:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> There's no analytics of any kind anywhere (minus whatever GitHub does)
2020-02-09T08:30:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I only know based on whoever tells me they're using it
2020-02-09T08:30:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> i have an idea
2020-02-09T08:30:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> you could host the chroot tarballs with a github repo
2020-02-09T08:30:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> then it'll track your downloads
2020-02-09T08:30:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Don't get me wrong, this is a *good* thing
2020-02-09T08:31:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> we'd all like to know how well it is doing
2020-02-09T08:31:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> https://somsubhra.com/github-release-stats/?username=kisslinux&repository=repo
2020-02-09T08:31:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> There's stats for the tarballs here
2020-02-09T08:32:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> The tarball from the 21/01/2020 has 528 downloads
2020-02-09T08:33:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> Hehe, people are skippping the gpg step
2020-02-09T08:33:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> And checksums
2020-02-09T08:33:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> :P
2020-02-09T08:33:41 #kisslinux <adamantium> gpg took me like 2 years to learn
2020-02-09T08:33:45 #kisslinux <adamantium> i dont blame people.
2020-02-09T08:34:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I don't think anyone "knows" gpg
2020-02-09T08:34:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> "let's make encryption as complicated as possible so that nobody will use it!"
2020-02-09T08:34:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> See: https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/signify
2020-02-09T08:37:43 #kisslinux <adamantium> cool
2020-02-09T08:37:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> can it replace gpg
2020-02-09T08:37:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Not in KISS
2020-02-09T08:38:10 #kisslinux <adamantium> ok good because i spent 2 years figuring out gpg - long live gpg
2020-02-09T08:38:36 #kisslinux <adamantium> ;-)
2020-02-09T08:38:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> KISS' signature verification didn't require a single line of extra code :P
2020-02-09T08:38:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Very apt
2020-02-09T08:39:11 #kisslinux <adamantium> ya. i had problems with it before, havent tried recently
2020-02-09T08:39:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Should be fixed as of latest kiss release
2020-02-09T08:39:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> i think environment related with sudo / not using sudo / running as root vs running as regular user
2020-02-09T08:39:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Turns out 'git pull' causes issues with it
2020-02-09T08:39:42 #kisslinux <adamantium> i had to manually go in to /var/db to repo and manually pull to fix it
2020-02-09T08:39:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> So I swapped back to 'git fetch + git merge'
2020-02-09T08:40:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> You can move that repo to ~ if you like
2020-02-09T08:40:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Or just 'git clone' it there and update '$KISS_PATH'
2020-02-09T08:40:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Mine is set to '~/projects/kiss/bla' for example
2020-02-09T08:40:45 #kisslinux <adamantium> oh that makes a lot of sense
2020-02-09T08:40:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> You're not tied to /var/db/kiss/repo
2020-02-09T08:41:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It's just the default spot
2020-02-09T08:42:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> i think it'd be cool to have an audit feature
2020-02-09T08:42:21 #kisslinux <adamantium> basically some kind of fetch and view the diffs of updated build files and sources
2020-02-09T08:42:30 #kisslinux <adamantium> before pulling it all in and installing
2020-02-09T08:42:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> You can just skip 'kiss u' and do it yourself. Or write a simple script
2020-02-09T08:42:43 #kisslinux <adamantium> i know
2020-02-09T08:42:49 #kisslinux <adamantium> I'm just thinking out loud
2020-02-09T08:43:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Could also just be 'KISS_AUDIT=1' then it'll run 'git diff'
2020-02-09T08:43:23 #kisslinux <adamantium> so git fetch and git merge is the official way then, to update, not git pull?
2020-02-09T08:44:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yeah
2020-02-09T08:44:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> There's subtle differences apparently
2020-02-09T08:45:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Signature verification is iffy with `git pull` for whatever reason
2020-02-09T08:45:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> hmm
2020-02-09T08:45:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> good to know then
2020-02-09T08:45:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Works fine with `git fetch` and `git merge`
2020-02-09T08:46:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It might make more sense to run 'git diff' always on 'kiss u'
2020-02-09T08:46:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> And have an ENVAR to opt out
2020-02-09T08:46:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Dunno
2020-02-09T08:46:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> speaking of git, what about using git repo on rootfs
2020-02-09T08:46:24 #kisslinux <adamantium> would rollbacks be possible that way
2020-02-09T08:46:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> That'd be weird and error prone I'd say
2020-02-09T08:46:54 #kisslinux <adamantium> i wonder
2020-02-09T08:46:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> git + binary files doesn't scale well
2020-02-09T08:47:22 #kisslinux <adamantium> kiss is pretty small though
2020-02-09T08:47:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> i bet it could be possible
2020-02-09T08:47:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> just ignore proc,dev,sys,mnt, etc
2020-02-09T08:47:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> etcetera
2020-02-09T08:48:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> who is using btrfs, i noticed someone contributed it
2020-02-09T08:50:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I maintain it now though I'd rather remove it
2020-02-09T08:50:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Forgot who contributed it
2020-02-09T08:50:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> yep
2020-02-09T08:50:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> it's not kiss :P
2020-02-09T09:09:21 #kisslinux <konimex> kiss is small, the binary files aren't
2020-02-09T09:09:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> ^
2020-02-09T09:17:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> adamantium: https://github.com/kisslinux/kiss/pull/110/files
2020-02-09T09:26:45 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps2: I love it. This is something we should really encourage everybody to be doing. It's taking extreme ownership of the system and protecting everybody, and it also is another selling point for kiss, the system is small enough to be potentially auditable by a single person
2020-02-09T09:27:51 #kisslinux <adamantium> I have a friend at my old job who used debian, I told him how I've tried most all of the distros over the years, including a lot of small ones, and his first question was "how do you know it is safe, though?"
2020-02-09T09:37:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yup
2020-02-09T09:37:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Very hard to do with a big distribution
2020-02-09T09:42:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> adamantium: pushed KISS_AUDIT
2020-02-09T09:42:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> :D
2020-02-09T09:43:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> hah
2020-02-09T09:43:46 #kisslinux * adamantium wonders what other ideas are in the back of his head
2020-02-09T09:45:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> We're still somehow at > 665 LOC
2020-02-09T09:46:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> (> doesn't mean greater than here. That's an oops on my part)
2020-02-09T09:47:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> (Ignore it)
2020-02-09T09:49:20 #kisslinux * adamantium ignores it
2020-02-09T09:49:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> Can we make kiss check email
2020-02-09T09:49:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> Because I friggin hate this emacs email client I use
2020-02-09T09:54:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski
2020-02-09T09:54:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> >     Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.
2020-02-09T09:54:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Very apt lol
2020-02-09T09:57:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> yup
2020-02-09T10:15:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> I have found people's reaction to kiss very interesting
2020-02-09T10:15:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> I feel like a lot of people who should like kiss, be drawn to it, or excited by it, turn up their nose
2020-02-09T10:19:51 #kisslinux <adamantium> oh dylanaraps2 , on the install guide, probably wanna have the user created earlier in the process now. also echo trusted-key 0x46d62dd9f1de636e >> /root/.gnupg/gpg.conf is probably not needed anymore, or does it still use root's for the gpg verification?
2020-02-09T10:25:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> adamantium: root is still used for pulls in /var so it is needed
2020-02-09T10:25:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Though the user could easily change it to ~
2020-02-09T10:26:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> k
2020-02-09T10:26:24 #kisslinux <adamantium> so it is smart enough to work both ways huh
2020-02-09T10:26:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> dumb enough I'd say
2020-02-09T10:27:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> kiss's package manager is very dumb about things
2020-02-09T10:27:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> :P
2020-02-09T10:27:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> But dumb is good
2020-02-09T10:27:50 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-02-09T10:27:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> fair point
2020-02-09T10:28:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> By dumb I mean a combination of simplicity with smart/thought input by the user
2020-02-09T10:28:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> thoughtful*
2020-02-09T10:29:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> I would like to make a lot of things to be dumber
2020-02-09T10:29:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It doesn't assume the user has no brain basically ;)
2020-02-09T10:30:39 #kisslinux <adamantium> Right
2020-02-09T10:31:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> For those interested in the shell: https://www.vidarholen.net/contents/blog/?p=859
2020-02-09T10:41:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> "JSVM" he probably isn't talking about the Scalable Video Coding codec
2020-02-09T11:14:51 #kisslinux <altius> Good morning. Still on it. I have (re)compiled the latest stable kernel, 5.5.2.
2020-02-09T11:16:01 #kisslinux <altius> I followed the Gentoo wiki. As my graphics card is a mullins series, I added the radeon firmware listed there.
2020-02-09T11:16:59 #kisslinux <altius> Still no happiness. tty starts OK, better resolution than in other intents.
2020-02-09T11:17:20 #kisslinux <altius> But when I try to startx, it fails. Logs: https://pastebin.com/XzJ5eq8f
2020-02-09T11:18:15 #kisslinux <altius> I'm clueless. Any ideas on how to keep debugging this would be appreciated.
2020-02-09T11:25:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> i have an amd card altius, I had a lot of trouble trying to build in and ended up using modules for it
2020-02-09T11:25:43 #kisslinux <adamantium> I pretty much just did make defconfig with amdgpu enabled as a module, then i type in "modprobe amdgpu", (can be put in init script later) ...
2020-02-09T11:25:57 #kisslinux <adamantium> then also make sure xf86-video-amdgpu is installed
2020-02-09T11:26:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> and i copied entire directory of firmware to /lib/firmware keeping the structure exact as it was
2020-02-09T11:26:43 #kisslinux <adamantium> (can be trimmed down later)
2020-02-09T11:27:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> Hope something in there might help or give an idea
2020-02-09T11:27:29 #kisslinux <altius> Thank you, I have more clues now. I have copied all firmware into /lib/firmware too, but I built radeon as backed in, not module.
2020-02-09T11:28:00 #kisslinux <altius> I could try to recompile, and modprobing modules later. Whatever works! ;)
2020-02-09T11:28:45 #kisslinux <adamantium> altius in your case i think you might just need to install a font
2020-02-09T11:28:50 #kisslinux <adamantium> try that first
2020-02-09T11:28:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-02-09T11:29:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> we have liberation fonts and unifont
2020-02-09T11:29:41 #kisslinux <altius> I am almost sure I had already installed liberation-fonts, as per the original instructions. I could check, just in case. I'm kind of a mess. :P
2020-02-09T11:29:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> adamantium: The issue is /dev/dri being empty.
2020-02-09T11:30:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> k
2020-02-09T11:30:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Kernel isn't populating /dev/dri as it isn't detecting the GPU
2020-02-09T11:30:50 #kisslinux <altius> Hi again, Dylan. I think not this time. I recompiled and had another errors. Here, logs: https://pastebin.com/XzJ5eq8f
2020-02-09T11:32:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> altius: I see
2020-02-09T11:32:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Try: 'chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg' as root.
2020-02-09T11:33:08 #kisslinux <altius> Will do, thanks. I'll be back.
2020-02-09T11:33:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> adamantium: My bad :P
2020-02-09T11:33:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> :P
2020-02-09T11:33:26 #kisslinux <adamantium> I wasn't gonna question, but I was was wondering
2020-02-09T11:33:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol
2020-02-09T11:33:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It seems as though the -ati video driver has trouble with non-root (non-suid) Xorg. :(
2020-02-09T11:34:07 #kisslinux <adamantium> cant he use amdgpu
2020-02-09T11:34:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> No idea
2020-02-09T11:34:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> If his GPU supports it, yeah
2020-02-09T11:35:00 #kisslinux <altius> I could, I think. For what I have read in Arch wiki or elsewhere, my graphics card could -theoretically- run
2020-02-09T11:35:13 #kisslinux <altius> with amdgpu or ati.
2020-02-09T11:35:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> ooo
2020-02-09T11:35:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> There's a patch!
2020-02-09T11:35:58 #kisslinux <altius> A patch?
2020-02-09T11:36:03 #kisslinux <adamantium> if you can choose, choose amdgpu
2020-02-09T11:36:04 #kisslinux <adamantium> :)
2020-02-09T11:36:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Aw, it's only for Xwayland
2020-02-09T11:36:28 #kisslinux <adamantium> and dont enable both ati stuff AND amdgpu stuff in the kernel, pick either or
2020-02-09T11:36:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I'll port our modesetting driver patch instead
2020-02-09T11:39:02 #kisslinux <altius> Rebooting now. Will check fonts and what Dylan told me. Crossing fingers (couple days doing that, yes, but it's kiss or bust!) XD
2020-02-09T11:40:59 #kisslinux <adamantium> altius45: you'll get it
2020-02-09T11:41:46 #kisslinux <altius45> I'm stubborn as a mule. I came from noob to Arch to Void.
2020-02-09T11:42:42 #kisslinux <altius45> Now I'm conquering this land. People here do excellent work, someone has to appreciate it. :)
2020-02-09T11:43:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Heh
2020-02-09T11:45:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> altius45: Pushed -ati with rootless xorg patch. :)
2020-02-09T11:46:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> You can do 'chmod -s /usr/bin/Xorg' once you update xf86-video-ati
2020-02-09T11:46:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/0cbdf327f593b3bf84f3d68b9e832ff06335e433
2020-02-09T11:46:41 #kisslinux <altius45> So I:
2020-02-09T11:47:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> - Update 'xf86-video-ati'
2020-02-09T11:47:14 #kisslinux <altius45> kiss b xf86-video-ati
2020-02-09T11:47:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> - 'chmod -s /usr/bin/Xorg'
2020-02-09T11:47:22 #kisslinux <altius45> Then kiss i
2020-02-09T11:47:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yeah
2020-02-09T11:47:36 #kisslinux <altius45> And then the chmod?
2020-02-09T11:47:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Your version should be 19.1.0 2
2020-02-09T11:47:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yup
2020-02-09T11:47:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Then it should all "just work"
2020-02-09T11:48:12 #kisslinux <altius45> Doing this!
2020-02-09T11:53:51 #kisslinux <altius45> Do I need to reboot? Still no x...
2020-02-09T11:54:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yes
2020-02-09T11:54:36 #kisslinux <altius45> On it
2020-02-09T11:54:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Send a log if it still doesn't work too
2020-02-09T11:54:59 #kisslinux <altius45> OK, will do
2020-02-09T12:00:42 #kisslinux <altius> Sigh. No luck. And I just looked into ~.local/share/xorg, and the Xorg.0log is the same I posted before, no new log is generated or is elsewhere (?)
2020-02-09T12:01:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> What does 'kiss l xf86-video-ati' output?
2020-02-09T12:01:46 #kisslinux <altius> Will reboot again and will tell. I come back to MX each time I have to search for logs, because
2020-02-09T12:02:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Ah
2020-02-09T12:02:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Gotcha
2020-02-09T12:02:30 #kisslinux <altius> still didn't workaround my keyboard layout. If vi is terrible as it is (sorry!), try it with all the symbols elsewhere. XD
2020-02-09T12:03:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> lol
2020-02-09T12:03:45 #kisslinux <altius> Pure whack-a-symbol. A nightmare really. XD
2020-02-09T12:03:55 #kisslinux <altius> Coming back in a little while
2020-02-09T12:07:02 #kisslinux <altius45> Whop! Almost. Rebooted and, just for the lols, tried sudo startx
2020-02-09T12:08:07 #kisslinux <altius45> Now says something good and "unable to run program xterm"
2020-02-09T12:09:03 #kisslinux <altius45> And closes, of course. So what, is xterm in repo, do I try to build it?
2020-02-09T12:09:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It's because you ran it with 'sudo'
2020-02-09T12:10:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Default '.xinitrc' for root runs 'xterm'.
2020-02-09T12:10:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Does it work as a normal user?
2020-02-09T12:10:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Also: 'kiss l xf86-video-ati'??
2020-02-09T12:10:43 #kisslinux <altius45> Nope. Closes same as always
2020-02-09T12:11:16 #kisslinux <altius45> The trouble is there. Still version 19.1.0.1
2020-02-09T12:11:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> That's the wrong version
2020-02-09T12:11:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> You need to run `kiss u`
2020-02-09T12:11:47 #kisslinux <altius45> Yep
2020-02-09T12:11:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Then... It should work :P
2020-02-09T12:12:09 #kisslinux <altius45> Will do
2020-02-09T12:14:17 #kisslinux <altius45> fatal: commit 0cbdf32 does not have a GPG signature
2020-02-09T12:15:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Grr...
2020-02-09T12:15:23 #kisslinux <altius45> Sorry :(
2020-02-09T12:15:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> It's signed https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commits/master
2020-02-09T12:15:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> All good :P
2020-02-09T12:15:52 #kisslinux <altius45> Retrying then, thanks!
2020-02-09T12:16:45 #kisslinux <altius45> Same. :(
2020-02-09T12:17:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Even with 19.1.0 2?
2020-02-09T12:17:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Tried rebooting?
2020-02-09T12:17:56 #kisslinux <altius45> No, I mean same error trying to update
2020-02-09T12:18:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Oh
2020-02-09T12:18:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> What kiss version do you have?
2020-02-09T12:18:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> (kiss v)
2020-02-09T12:19:05 #kisslinux <altius45> 1.2.2
2020-02-09T12:19:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Ah! I fixed the signature error in a newer version.
2020-02-09T12:19:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Disable signing, run 'kiss u' and then enabled it again.
2020-02-09T12:20:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> 'cd /var/db/kiss/repo'
2020-02-09T12:20:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> 'git config merge.verifySignatures false'
2020-02-09T12:20:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> 'kiss u'
2020-02-09T12:20:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> 'git config merge.verifySignatures true'
2020-02-09T12:20:42 #kisslinux <altius45> On it
2020-02-09T12:23:18 #kisslinux <altius45> So far  so good. I've seen ATI driver in the build.
2020-02-09T12:23:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> :D
2020-02-09T12:24:06 #kisslinux <altius45> My machine is not quite bleeding edge, say, so perhaps this will take a while. XD
2020-02-09T12:24:38 #kisslinux <aarng> dylanaraps2, do you have an updated doas.conf for the latest kiss changes?
2020-02-09T12:25:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> aarng: I'll push one in a sec
2020-02-09T12:25:56 #kisslinux <aarng> nice, thanks
2020-02-09T12:28:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> May not be possible. Will push a package manager update to split the 'git' command in 3 for doas.
2020-02-09T12:29:28 #kisslinux <aarng> yeah, I was wondering about the dynamic logname
2020-02-09T12:29:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Give me 5
2020-02-09T12:30:21 #kisslinux <aarng> no rush
2020-02-09T12:39:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> aarng: Done
2020-02-09T12:39:58 #kisslinux <aarng> nicu, going to check it out
2020-02-09T12:41:44 #kisslinux <aarng> yap, this is perfect
2020-02-09T12:41:47 #kisslinux <aarng> ty
2020-02-09T12:44:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> np
2020-02-09T13:58:18 #kisslinux <JamsNJellies> /join
2020-02-09T14:13:28 #kisslinux <altius> Hi again. It took its time.
2020-02-09T14:13:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> All good
2020-02-09T14:14:03 #kisslinux <altius> Did kiss u and the chmod. Still no luck. :(
2020-02-09T14:14:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Same error?
2020-02-09T14:14:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> 'kiss l xf86-video-ati' shows 19.1.0 2?
2020-02-09T14:15:33 #kisslinux <altius> It doesn't! Something to do after kiss u?
2020-02-09T14:15:47 #kisslinux <altius> Still 0.1
2020-02-09T14:16:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> 'cd $(kiss s xf86-video-ati) && cat version'
2020-02-09T14:16:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> This will tell me the version that will be built with 'kiss b'
2020-02-09T14:21:46 #kisslinux <altius> 19.1.0.2 (?) Do I try kiss b and kiss i xf86-video-ati?
2020-02-09T14:22:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yeah
2020-02-09T14:22:54 #kisslinux <altius> On it
2020-02-09T14:27:17 #kisslinux <altius> Oh please lemme enjoy this moment: I'm into x! sowm+st working already!!!
2020-02-09T14:27:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> :D
2020-02-09T14:27:52 #kisslinux <altius> Oh how beautiful is your plain black screen. XD
2020-02-09T14:28:20 #kisslinux <altius> How to thank you, Dylan? Dunno what to say.
2020-02-09T14:29:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> No problem :)
2020-02-09T14:30:04 #kisslinux <altius> You've been great! Now I'm going to workaround keyboard, add contrib repo, put some apps and try to look a little nicer (wallpaper at least)
2020-02-09T14:30:46 #kisslinux <altius> As I haven't another way of giving thanks, remember that my
2020-02-09T14:31:24 #kisslinux <altius> translation capabilities are yours, ping me anytime and I'll be on it
2020-02-09T14:31:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Yup, I'll keep it in mind :)
2020-02-09T14:31:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Thanks
2020-02-09T14:32:15 #kisslinux <altius> Plus, I'm sure I'll turn back for more advice. I still got some minor doubts, but I
2020-02-09T14:32:40 #kisslinux <altius> Have abused of your patience more than enough today. :)
2020-02-09T14:33:48 #kisslinux <altius> Thank you again! *Watches a b/w term on a black screen in awe*
2020-02-09T14:34:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Heh
2020-02-09T14:39:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> I'm glad this ended with success
2020-02-09T14:39:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> I just fixed this: https://imgur.com/a/XMJhDBF
2020-02-09T14:39:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> (Posted on the subreddit)
2020-02-09T14:40:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> Turns out our GCC change to fix '-static -pie' broke Grub
2020-02-09T15:13:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps2> https://old.reddit.com/r/kisslinux/comments/f19jpc/can_i_have_some_kiss_show_me_your_kiss_desktop/
2020-02-09T17:32:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://getkiss.org/blog/20200209a
2020-02-09T17:32:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > This week in KISS (#10)
2020-02-09T17:42:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> 10/10
2020-02-09T17:42:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My favourite part of these posts are the /r/linux comments
2020-02-09T17:43:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/f1bkri/this_week_in_kiss_linux_10/
2020-02-09T17:43:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Watch this space
2020-02-09T17:43:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/eqllsf/this_week_in_kiss_linux_7/
2020-02-09T17:44:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Aw, all of 10/10 comments are deleted
2020-02-09T17:45:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> these people are wild
2020-02-09T17:49:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is gold from /r/linux
2020-02-09T17:49:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> >     Ok, what’s your point. You have have musl and libc on a system. Not to mention the developer of kids is a outspoken anti systemd fud spreader.
2020-02-09T17:53:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> fuck you dylan I can't believe you'd develop kids that's sick :(
2020-02-09T17:54:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I spread systemd fud on my toast in the morning
2020-02-09T17:54:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yum
2020-02-09T18:08:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> you: fudspreading garbage
2020-02-09T18:08:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> me, an intellectual: I love these amazon ads in my desktop manager
2020-02-09T18:09:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm missing out on sweet deals :(
2020-02-09T19:04:12 #kisslinux <Guest10> dylanaraps you on Dylan?
2020-02-09T19:04:45 #kisslinux <Guest10> ----> Commit eecc3f2 does not have a GPG signature
2020-02-09T19:09:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-02-09T19:09:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Which version of the package manager do you have?
2020-02-09T19:09:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commits/master
2020-02-09T19:09:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All commits are signed
2020-02-09T19:10:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This *should* be fixed in the latest package manager release. (Turns out 'git pull' caused issues so a swap to 'git fetch && git merge' was made)
2020-02-09T19:11:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's literally all of the code for git "pulls". Signing happens 100% through git so I'm not sure why it fails exactly
2020-02-09T19:11:42 #kisslinux <Guest10> kiss 1.1.7
2020-02-09T19:12:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss 1.4.1
2020-02-09T19:12:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-02-09T19:12:16 #kisslinux <Guest10> ok. what do I need to do this end?
2020-02-09T19:12:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Temporarily disable signing to get the latest (or you could clone the package manager from git and run './kiss u')
2020-02-09T19:13:23 #kisslinux <Guest10> Can you jog my memory? how do I disable signing?
2020-02-09T19:13:29 #kisslinux <Guest10> :D
2020-02-09T19:13:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The inverse of this: https://getkiss.org/pages/install#enable-signature-verification
2020-02-09T19:13:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (true -> false)
2020-02-09T19:13:55 #kisslinux <Guest10> ok thank you
2020-02-09T19:13:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then those same steps to enable it again.
2020-02-09T19:13:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> np
2020-02-09T19:15:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It fails here in 'git': https://github.com/git/git/blob/5b0ca878e008e82f91300091e793427205ce3544/commit.c#L1159-L1160
2020-02-09T19:16:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The default value is 'N': https://github.com/git/git/blob/5b0ca878e008e82f91300091e793427205ce3544/commit.c#L1125
2020-02-09T19:17:02 #kisslinux <Guest10> all good. Updating now
2020-02-09T19:17:29 #kisslinux <Guest10> Will  reenable sigs after update
2020-02-09T19:18:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The one thing I can think of is that 'git pull' doesn't pull down the GPG info for each commit
2020-02-09T19:19:04 #kisslinux <Guest10> package manager updated ok. Reenabled sigs and now rerunning update. Updating ok.
2020-02-09T19:19:11 #kisslinux <Guest10> Thank you
2020-02-09T19:19:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No problem
2020-02-09T19:19:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me know if it happens again (a few other users reported the same issue though no new reports since latest)
2020-02-09T19:20:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Might want to read this too: https://getkiss.org/blog/20200209a
2020-02-09T19:20:14 #kisslinux <Guest10> It happened on my other Kiss pc a few days ago.
2020-02-09T19:20:42 #kisslinux <Guest10> But retried some hours later and it updated ok
2020-02-09T19:20:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah, I only fixed this yesterday(?)
2020-02-09T19:21:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's something git/gpg related (if it isn't git pull/fetch semantics)
2020-02-09T19:22:12 #kisslinux <Guest10> Ok. All good.
2020-02-09T19:23:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It spawns gpg here: https://github.com/git/git/blob/5b0ca878e008e82f91300091e793427205ce3544/gpg-interface.c#L296
2020-02-09T19:24:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Our gpg hasn't needed an update since October so this points then to git...
2020-02-09T20:23:00 #kisslinux <user1011970> cool
2020-02-09T20:36:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/
2020-02-09T20:38:12 #kisslinux <user1011970> anyone got this wallpaper: https://u.peppe.rs/Hb.png
2020-02-09T20:54:08 #kisslinux <altius> Hello all. First hours playing kiss, first impressions.
2020-02-09T20:54:45 #kisslinux <altius> This is just great. Even better than I tought. Still some rough edges, things to figure out, but.
2020-02-09T20:55:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me know if I can be of any help
2020-02-09T20:55:56 #kisslinux <altius> This is minimal. So my computer doesn't seems to notice that is already on. Hey, your processor is on 0% of use, are you dead? XD
2020-02-09T20:56:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah, mine sits at 0%~ CPU most of the time :P
2020-02-09T20:57:06 #kisslinux <altius> Lowest RAM used a startx I have ever seen. Ridiculous. Great. This could run on an potato peeler. :O
2020-02-09T20:57:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can lower it further with a little effort
2020-02-09T20:57:57 #kisslinux <altius> Haha, I have "efforted" a while by now. But clearly we need new goals! XD
2020-02-09T20:58:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Tip: You can install firefox-bin to avoid having to build rust/firefox
2020-02-09T20:58:33 #kisslinux <altius> That said. Netsurf compiled OK, but failed to run.
2020-02-09T20:58:43 #kisslinux <altius> I did just that.
2020-02-09T20:58:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me see if it works for me
2020-02-09T20:59:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah falkon refused to run for me; couldn't load shared resources
2020-02-09T20:59:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dilyn: Got a log at all?
2020-02-09T20:59:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> we've settled for firefox for now
2020-02-09T20:59:31 #kisslinux <altius> Firefox runs mostly fine, it seems.
2020-02-09T20:59:41 #kisslinux <altius> Uh, perhaps a dmesg?
2020-02-09T20:59:52 #kisslinux <altius> Or xorg log?
2020-02-09T21:00:19 #kisslinux <altius> I started Netsurf from terminal and didn't spit anything useful, I think
2020-02-09T21:00:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm trying it now
2020-02-09T21:01:15 #kisslinux <altius> OK. I'll be one thing at a time. When you have this sorted, next. ;)
2020-02-09T21:02:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> I didn' save the errors I was getting but it all boiled down to not being able to load shared resources in any of the directories
2020-02-09T21:02:25 #kisslinux <altius> I have reinstalled Netsurf just to check again terminal prompt
2020-02-09T21:02:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> even though, upon inspection, the resources were in fact in at least one of those locations
2020-02-09T21:03:04 #kisslinux <altius> Just: "/bin/sh: netsurf: not found"
2020-02-09T21:03:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Was it by any change looking in /share instead of /usr/share dilyn:?
2020-02-09T21:03:19 #kisslinux <altius> (Uninstalling again)
2020-02-09T21:03:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: netsurf-gtk3
2020-02-09T21:03:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> If I remember correctly it was looking in /usr/share
2020-02-09T21:03:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's the binary name
2020-02-09T21:03:54 #kisslinux <altius> yep, sorry, forgot that
2020-02-09T21:04:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> but I could be mistaken
2020-02-09T21:04:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It opens on my machine
2020-02-09T21:04:31 #kisslinux <altius> "Options failed to initialise (BadParameter)"
2020-02-09T21:05:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do: netsurf -v >~/file 2>&1
2020-02-09T21:05:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then upload the contents of ~/file
2020-02-09T21:05:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can do: nc termbin.com:9999 < ~/file
2020-02-09T21:05:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (nc is already installed)
2020-02-09T21:07:22 #kisslinux <altius> Copy paste: "~ $ netsurf-gtk3Options failed to initialise (BadParameter)~ $ netsurf -v >~/file 2>&1~ $ nc termbin.com:9999 < ~/filehttps://termbin.com/8n4v~ $ netsnetstat       netsurf-gtk3~ $ netsurf-gtk3Options failed to initialise (BadParameter)~ $"
2020-02-09T21:08:19 #kisslinux <altius> No big deal, anyway. Firefox is doing ok
2020-02-09T21:08:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/view.php?id=2482
2020-02-09T21:08:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Found a bug on their tracker.
2020-02-09T21:08:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Closed as "Can't reproduce"
2020-02-09T21:09:16 #kisslinux <altius> So is something upstream. OK, no big deal, as I said.
2020-02-09T21:09:53 #kisslinux <altius> I just use it in my laptop to do text browsing, mostly, because it really is lightweight. But here I have a little more resources. ;)
2020-02-09T21:10:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: Packages in Community aren't really my domain. Each package in Community has a maintainer. You can easily find the name/email with 'kiss-maintainer pkg_name' (from the 'kiss-utils' package)
2020-02-09T21:10:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If I am the package maintainer for something in Community then it is my domain :P
2020-02-09T21:10:35 #kisslinux <altius> Noted, thanks!
2020-02-09T21:10:39 #kisslinux <altius> So one more thing
2020-02-09T21:10:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The entirety of the official repositories are all my domain too
2020-02-09T21:10:54 #kisslinux <altius> I have no sound, tried Youtube to check audio
2020-02-09T21:10:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just Community is special
2020-02-09T21:11:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: Install 'alsa-utils', open 'alsamixer' and unmute?
2020-02-09T21:11:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Tried that?
2020-02-09T21:11:19 #kisslinux <altius> I suppose it's the usual with alsa, unmute channels should do the trick
2020-02-09T21:12:03 #kisslinux <altius> Aha. Just alsamixer. I suppose I have to get used that installing one package here doesn't pull all this and the kitchen sink with it. ;)
2020-02-09T21:12:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-02-09T21:13:01 #kisslinux <altius> But the case is, alsamixer is not opening: ~ $ alsamixercannot open mixer: No such file or directory
2020-02-09T21:13:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Audio drivers possibly
2020-02-09T21:13:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Send me your dmesg?
2020-02-09T21:13:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Are you in the audio group?
2020-02-09T21:13:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Any files inside `/dev/snd`? (ls -l /dev/snd/)
2020-02-09T21:14:08 #kisslinux <altius> Yep, I am.
2020-02-09T21:14:16 #kisslinux <altius>  groups altius wheel audio video input
2020-02-09T21:15:09 #kisslinux <altius>  $ ls -l /dev/snd total 0 crw-rw----    1 root     audio     116,   1 Feb  9 19:22 seq crw-rw----    1 root     audio     116,  33 Feb  9 19:22 timer
2020-02-09T21:17:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah, looks like a missing driver
2020-02-09T21:17:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Need to see dmesg to be sure
2020-02-09T21:18:16 #kisslinux <altius> Trying to figure out how to cut out all the text from nano
2020-02-09T21:18:48 #kisslinux <altius> It's the better (I mean, the one I more-or-less know how to use) I could get so far. ;)
2020-02-09T21:19:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do this: dmesg | nc termbin.com:9999
2020-02-09T21:20:12 #kisslinux <altius> Done
2020-02-09T21:21:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Feel free to email me the link if you like
2020-02-09T21:21:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you don't want to post it in irc I mean
2020-02-09T21:25:47 #kisslinux <altius> No problem. https://termbin.com/24mp
2020-02-09T21:26:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> altius: what sound card do you have?
2020-02-09T21:26:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [    1.205938]   No soundcards found.
2020-02-09T21:27:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Driver issue!
2020-02-09T21:27:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Back to the kernel. :-P
2020-02-09T21:27:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Unless you have it compiled as a module already(?)
2020-02-09T21:27:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Could be a simple modprobe
2020-02-09T21:28:39 #kisslinux <altius7> Didn't that explicitly, but perhaps it was in the defaults
2020-02-09T21:30:13 #kisslinux <altius7> The good news is, now I know a little bit more about how to properly build my kernel
2020-02-09T21:30:44 #kisslinux <altius7> Learning is the main point of all of this. ;)
2020-02-09T21:30:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> doesn't look like any hd audio options are enabled with defconfig
2020-02-09T21:31:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> but lspci can tell you more information about your specific card if you don't know it
2020-02-09T21:31:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> and you can go to device drivers > sound card support > advanced linux sound architecture > HD-audio to find a specific device
2020-02-09T21:31:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> there are other settings on the way there that you might want to tweak as well
2020-02-09T21:32:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius7: Run lspci from the other distribution you have installed
2020-02-09T21:34:36 #kisslinux <altius7> Will do. But in the meantime, may I ask you a couple of more generic questions?
2020-02-09T21:34:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> sure
2020-02-09T21:34:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yeah
2020-02-09T21:35:23 #kisslinux <altius> OK. First, I noticed, while installing Firefox, that it sometimes prompted me asking for sudo.
2020-02-09T21:35:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah, I assume you haven't installed sudo or opendoas?
2020-02-09T21:36:22 #kisslinux <altius> As it took really long hours, and I wasn't obviously watching all the time, it happened at least once that the process stopped because of timeout
2020-02-09T21:36:28 #kisslinux <altius> Oh, I installed sudo
2020-02-09T21:36:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: I recommend installing sudo or opendoas and configuring them for KISS
2020-02-09T21:36:30 #kisslinux <altius> My bad?
2020-02-09T21:36:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> no no
2020-02-09T21:39:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I recommend a larger cache for the 'kiss i' command (for your user)
2020-02-09T21:39:43 #kisslinux <altius> I took a peek at man kiss, but I'll look more closely
2020-02-09T21:39:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though the default cache *should* be fine once your installation is "done"
2020-02-09T21:39:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You won't be building as many packages as often
2020-02-09T21:40:06 #kisslinux <altius> Oh, today's update took its time too.
2020-02-09T21:40:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The package manager runs as a normal user and elevates permissions when needed
2020-02-09T21:40:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah...
2020-02-09T21:40:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GCC was updated today :P
2020-02-09T21:40:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> First time in months
2020-02-09T21:40:13 #kisslinux <altius> I'm kinda of scared of what will happen if I stay out of the computer, say, a couple of weeks...
2020-02-09T21:40:18 #kisslinux <altius> :P
2020-02-09T21:40:45 #kisslinux <altius> OK, another question then.
2020-02-09T21:40:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You should be fine
2020-02-09T21:41:04 #kisslinux <altius> I'll be, you got us covered. ;)
2020-02-09T21:41:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Last "manual intervention" for an update was in October for a Python version bump
2020-02-09T21:41:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://getkiss.org/news/20191015b
2020-02-09T21:41:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is auto now too ;)
2020-02-09T21:41:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Won't happen next Python bump
2020-02-09T21:41:55 #kisslinux <altius> Then, another question. Any advice on general maintenance and stuff? Like, cleaning orphans, cache, etc.
2020-02-09T21:42:18 #kisslinux <altius> I'll check for news before updating. I'm used to do that on Arch and Void, too. ;)
2020-02-09T21:42:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 'kiss-orphans' (from the 'kiss-utils' package) will list orphans
2020-02-09T21:42:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though I wouldn't blindly remove everything listed
2020-02-09T21:43:10 #kisslinux <altius> Noted. Will be very careful.
2020-02-09T21:43:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Take some time to think about the commands you're running. :P
2020-02-09T21:43:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can fix every problem though (I had no busybox at all 2 days ago)
2020-02-09T21:43:57 #kisslinux <altius> Anyway, if I break something because of removing dependencies, I suppose I could just chroot in another partition and reinstall, right?
2020-02-09T21:44:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I broke my boot by removing util-linux yesterday (and forgetting to re-install it before reboot)
2020-02-09T21:44:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: You won't be able to break the system unless you force remove packages
2020-02-09T21:45:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 'kiss r' guards against removing anything which is a dependency of a package
2020-02-09T21:45:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (kiss remove as well)
2020-02-09T21:45:20 #kisslinux <altius> Sure I won't do that.
2020-02-09T21:45:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The cache is located at ~/.cache/kiss
2020-02-09T21:45:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Inside ~/.cache/kiss/bin are the built packages
2020-02-09T21:45:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I like to keep it around
2020-02-09T21:46:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can do 'kiss install ~/.cache/kiss/bin/pkg-bla-bla.tar.gz' to install old versions etc
2020-02-09T21:46:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ~/.cache/kiss/logs/ contains build logs from failed builds
2020-02-09T21:46:46 #kisslinux <altius> But it will be growing in size with time, will it? Just cloning the repo upped the space quite a bit, I think
2020-02-09T21:46:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you don't need the logs you can clean it
2020-02-09T21:47:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: yes
2020-02-09T21:47:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can clean it however you see fit
2020-02-09T21:47:39 #kisslinux <altius> I reserved not much space to this partition, just about fourty-something gigas.
2020-02-09T21:47:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have packages from August and it's at 8GB~
2020-02-09T21:47:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So, every update since August
2020-02-09T21:48:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is for *every* package outside of Community too
2020-02-09T21:48:19 #kisslinux <altius> Not much risk of going out of space, then
2020-02-09T21:48:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-02-09T21:48:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You might want to clean ~/.cache/kiss/sources though
2020-02-09T21:48:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This contains downloads for each package (the source code tarballs)
2020-02-09T21:49:14 #kisslinux <altius> If I have to download heavy duty (like my docs folder from the cloud), I can do it in another partition and then just mount it to have access to it
2020-02-09T21:49:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mine is 16GB, same as above (every package + version since August)
2020-02-09T21:49:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: Yeah
2020-02-09T21:49:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you have a good network connection you can just remove the sources/ directory when it grows
2020-02-09T21:49:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I keep it around as I do a lot of rebuilds
2020-02-09T21:50:02 #kisslinux <altius> Really? That doesn't seems much at all...
2020-02-09T21:50:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: Most of that is rust/Firefox sources too
2020-02-09T21:50:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 15~ versions of Firefox
2020-02-09T21:50:25 #kisslinux <altius> :O
2020-02-09T21:50:57 #kisslinux <altius> Oh, one more thing (or two)
2020-02-09T21:51:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > 3.8G    firefox
2020-02-09T21:51:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (+ 1GB for firefox-nightly when I was testing it)
2020-02-09T21:51:42 #kisslinux <altius> First, a silly question (I feel I do silly questions mostly, so once more ;)  )
2020-02-09T21:52:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All good
2020-02-09T21:52:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ask away
2020-02-09T21:52:07 #kisslinux <altius> (Almost 4 Gb of Firefox? that thing really came to be a monster)
2020-02-09T21:52:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No no
2020-02-09T21:52:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Individual .tar.gz files
2020-02-09T21:52:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> For each version + betas
2020-02-09T21:52:36 #kisslinux <altius> Yes, I know. but anyway.
2020-02-09T21:52:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They're 300MB~ each
2020-02-09T21:52:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-02-09T21:52:52 #kisslinux <altius> That's what I say. 300 MB each.
2020-02-09T21:53:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2020-02-09T21:53:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > 1.8G    rust
2020-02-09T21:53:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > 2.8G    linux-headers
2020-02-09T21:53:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have a lot of kernels too
2020-02-09T21:53:33 #kisslinux <altius> A lot of versions too, I suppose!
2020-02-09T21:53:44 #kisslinux <altius> You are quite a collector. XD
2020-02-09T21:53:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have terrible internet
2020-02-09T21:53:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So I keep everything around
2020-02-09T21:53:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-02-09T21:54:16 #kisslinux <altius> Where do you live, if I may ask, that you have so bad Internet?
2020-02-09T21:54:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Greece
2020-02-09T21:54:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Moved from Australia over a year ago
2020-02-09T21:54:49 #kisslinux <altius> Oh my. We're close (relatively speaking)
2020-02-09T21:54:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Australia has even worse internet though
2020-02-09T21:54:59 #kisslinux <altius> In fact, we swing in the same sea. ;)
2020-02-09T21:55:04 #kisslinux <altius> swim
2020-02-09T21:55:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm West of Greece ;)
2020-02-09T21:55:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not Aegean
2020-02-09T21:55:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ionion
2020-02-09T21:55:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-02-09T21:55:22 #kisslinux <altius> Majorca. Balearic Islands, Spain
2020-02-09T21:55:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You're on an Island?
2020-02-09T21:56:20 #kisslinux <altius> Yep. Small one. About 80 km (dunno in miles) is the longest run in a straight line you can do
2020-02-09T21:56:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm on an island too
2020-02-09T21:56:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lefkada, Greece
2020-02-09T21:56:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-02-09T21:57:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Your island is bigger than mine
2020-02-09T21:57:26 #kisslinux <altius> As I'm a major/master/PhD student in Philosophy, I think I know a thing or two about Greece. XD
2020-02-09T21:57:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2020-02-09T21:57:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> !!
2020-02-09T21:57:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Come to Greece if you get the chance
2020-02-09T21:58:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> but what do you work on altius
2020-02-09T21:58:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This goes for everyone :-)
2020-02-09T21:58:08 #kisslinux <altius> Is one of my dreams
2020-02-09T21:59:22 #kisslinux <altius> Oh, I don't work of what I have studied, as it happens. I work in a bookshop. Selling comic books. Very philosophic, you see. XD
2020-02-09T21:59:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> I guess I wound up closer xD
2020-02-09T21:59:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> I did philosophy of maths and language, ended up at a bank
2020-02-09T22:02:10 #kisslinux <altius> Philosophy of maths! I'm more the humanities geek, you know. Always had troubles with numbers, and then Hegel and Heidegger came on my way and said, OK. XD
2020-02-09T22:03:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> if there's one thing my education suffered from it was too much Russell and not enough Hegel
2020-02-09T22:08:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: Is where you live full of cats?
2020-02-09T22:10:41 #kisslinux <altius> Haha, not really. Because of, you know, globalization, all cities in the world are getting too similar. But we have still our own, say, ways. ;)
2020-02-09T22:11:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I know, Greek culture is dying off here
2020-02-09T22:11:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have 10+ cats though
2020-02-09T22:11:39 #kisslinux <altius> My parents live in a country house, and they have indeed cats. When I lived there I always had a couple at least, and dogs and ducks and all kind of animals
2020-02-09T22:11:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-02-09T22:12:00 #kisslinux <altius> But cats sure are my thing. I'm a cat person, really. ;)
2020-02-09T22:12:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm in a village so there's a lot of animals around
2020-02-09T22:13:50 #kisslinux <altius> Have you seen "Never on sunday"? It's kind of a Pygmalion myth of today, but with an american philosopher and a greek... Well, escort.
2020-02-09T22:14:37 #kisslinux <altius> The philosopher goes to Greece to see by himself what happened with the, eh, Greek ethos, paideia, whatever of Antiquity.
2020-02-09T22:14:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ooo
2020-02-09T22:15:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Looks like they remade it in 2004 (original from 1960)
2020-02-09T22:15:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will watch both ;)
2020-02-09T22:15:22 #kisslinux <altius> And finds this lady. Who "works" all the week, but never on Sunday, that's the why of the title.
2020-02-09T22:15:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Don't tell me anymore
2020-02-09T22:15:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I like to watch movies etc without knowing anything beforehand
2020-02-09T22:15:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-02-09T22:16:39 #kisslinux <altius> Don't worry, that was all I was going to tell you. ;)  See the older one first, you have Melina Mercouri in the cast and is great.
2020-02-09T22:17:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will do
2020-02-09T22:17:36 #kisslinux <altius> I saw that in a Greek class, original audio in English and Greek. I don't do that much Greek, and in that time my English wasn't that good too.
2020-02-09T22:18:04 #kisslinux <altius> but I've seen it later, with subs, and is just great.
2020-02-09T22:18:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Awesome
2020-02-09T22:18:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Downloading it now
2020-02-09T22:18:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm still perfecting my Greek
2020-02-09T22:18:54 #kisslinux <altius> (Not that my English is that good now, but hey, here I am. Sorry if I say something weird sometimes, still roughing my edges). XD
2020-02-09T22:19:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Your English is fine
2020-02-09T22:19:35 #kisslinux <altius> You are too kind. ;)  And, hey, before I forget, I still had some questions for you!
2020-02-09T22:19:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-02-09T22:20:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fire away
2020-02-09T22:20:36 #kisslinux <altius> I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but any easy way to take a screenshot here? You know, I want to do my proud "BTW I use Kiss"  now. XD
2020-02-09T22:20:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-02-09T22:20:59 #kisslinux <altius> Nah, just sharing with you, perhaps in the Reddit Kiss subforum. To say thank you and all. :)
2020-02-09T22:21:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> imlib2, imagemagick, ffmpeg
2020-02-09T22:21:26 #kisslinux <altius> I searched for scrot, no luck
2020-02-09T22:21:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No one has packaged it :P
2020-02-09T22:21:43 #kisslinux <altius> Oh, any of those are capable of that? Didn't know
2020-02-09T22:21:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Most users probably use ffmpeg as they already have it installed for Firefox/mpv
2020-02-09T22:21:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-02-09T22:22:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All 3 can take screenshots
2020-02-09T22:22:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> imlib2 is the easiest
2020-02-09T22:22:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's what scrot uses underneath
2020-02-09T22:22:11 #kisslinux <altius> I must have it then, as I have Firefox
2020-02-09T22:22:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ffmpeg? Yeah
2020-02-09T22:22:38 #kisslinux <altius> I'll check it out. Thanks!
2020-02-09T22:24:18 #kisslinux <altius> Oh, and another. Libreoffice (or any alternative?) doesn't seems to be on the repos. Just because nobody packaged it, or is there any other reason?
2020-02-09T22:25:12 #kisslinux <altius> I use Wordgrinder mostly, anyway. Not here, too. If I have to do text in this partition, I can always come to Google Docs or something.
2020-02-09T22:26:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: ffmpeg -y -hide_banner -loglevel error -f x11grab -video_size 3200x1800 -i :0.0 -vframes 1 file.jpg
2020-02-09T22:26:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Change 3200x1800 to your screen size
2020-02-09T22:27:04 #kisslinux <konimex> libreoffice is a pain to package
2020-02-09T22:27:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: For office it's tricky
2020-02-09T22:27:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> libreoffice is more bloated than Firefox/Chromium
2020-02-09T22:27:20 #kisslinux <altius> I was thinking something like that.
2020-02-09T22:28:01 #kisslinux <altius> Yep. What we were speaking before, those lotta gigs of FF. Libreoffice must be an even worse pain.
2020-02-09T22:28:15 #kisslinux <altius> And I suppose it takes a.. while to compile, does it?
2020-02-09T22:28:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-02-09T22:28:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You could run it in a chroot
2020-02-09T22:29:48 #kisslinux <altius> !!! You are right. How would I chroot into another partition from here? (My noobness knows no limits!). XD
2020-02-09T22:30:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 'chroot /path/to/dir'
2020-02-09T22:30:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then launch libreoffice
2020-02-09T22:30:21 #kisslinux <altius> That easy?
2020-02-09T22:30:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-02-09T22:30:31 #kisslinux <altius> I'm plain amazed. :O
2020-02-09T22:30:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You may need to mount /dev, /proc etc
2020-02-09T22:30:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If so
2020-02-09T22:30:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 'kiss-chroot' from the 'kiss-utils' package will work
2020-02-09T22:30:49 #kisslinux <altius> No problem. Will try.
2020-02-09T22:30:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> kiss-chroot /path/to/dir
2020-02-09T22:31:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I used this method to run Steam, Chromium and Counter-strike 1.6/Source a while ago
2020-02-09T22:31:55 #kisslinux <altius> I'm copying all of this in a text file to future reference, I don't want to forget. This will be handy for sure.
2020-02-09T22:32:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Logs are public here too: https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux
2020-02-09T22:33:10 #kisslinux <altius> Yep, I have been checking them. Very handy too.
2020-02-09T22:35:43 #kisslinux <altius> A last question and call it a day? Send me to bed when you have enough, really. ;)
2020-02-09T22:36:25 #kisslinux <konimex> Don't ask to ask, just ask
2020-02-09T22:36:46 #kisslinux <altius> I have really get used to fish (shell). Is it posible to have it here?
2020-02-09T22:36:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Someone just need to package it
2020-02-09T22:37:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or it could be your first package ;)
2020-02-09T22:37:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> needs*
2020-02-09T22:38:15 #kisslinux <altius> Haha, if you are capable of making me learn to do that, I promise I will. But I'm no techie, really, as you more than know by now. ;)
2020-02-09T22:39:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can open an issue in kisslinux/community on GitHub for now if you like
2020-02-09T22:39:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also read: https://getkiss.org/pages/package-system
2020-02-09T22:39:17 #kisslinux <altius> But I really wish I could do something. Heh. I could try to learn that. If I could install Kiss and make it running (with your help! Mostly with your help!), I could try.
2020-02-09T22:39:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Read the package-system page
2020-02-09T22:39:42 #kisslinux <altius> Will surely do.
2020-02-09T22:39:54 #kisslinux <altius> Will do my best.
2020-02-09T22:40:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It should tell you everything you need to write a package
2020-02-09T22:40:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ask here if you have any questions
2020-02-09T22:42:16 #kisslinux <altius> Perfect, thank you again. Will do that. Starting now. I'm going to read that and put my eyes on fish then, see what can happen.
2020-02-09T22:43:39 #kisslinux <altius> Anyone here interested on that, or just me? If I finally can do something with packages, and there is something more urgent, we can work it out.
2020-02-09T22:44:03 #kisslinux <altius> (Interested on having Fish on kiss, I mean)
2020-02-09T22:44:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> but that's not POSIX dylan would never stand for this
2020-02-09T22:44:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's nothing urgent that I don't handle :P
2020-02-09T22:45:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Package what you personally need and if you want to be nice, package what others need
2020-02-09T22:45:50 #kisslinux <altius> Not POSIX? Does that supposes any problem?
2020-02-09T22:45:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If it is something suitable for everyone (it should belong in the official repositories) let me know
2020-02-09T22:45:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: It's a joke :P
2020-02-09T22:46:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dilyn: brb swapping my /bin/sh to powershell
2020-02-09T22:46:45 #kisslinux <altius> Phew. ;)
2020-02-09T22:47:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (It's possible fyi https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/blob/master/docs/building/linux.md)
2020-02-09T22:47:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/img_57b63ee13aefb.png
2020-02-09T22:47:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> I hate that this is a thing
2020-02-09T22:47:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> Don't
2020-02-09T22:47:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> no
2020-02-09T22:48:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> C# too
2020-02-09T22:48:50 #kisslinux <altius> Sorry but I don't get it. Is that the shell from what, Windows?
2020-02-09T22:48:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> :'(
2020-02-09T22:48:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ooo
2020-02-09T22:49:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also needs dotNET
2020-02-09T22:49:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> altius: yes
2020-02-09T22:49:06 #kisslinux <altius> ????
2020-02-09T22:49:18 #kisslinux <altius> And who would need a windows shell here?
2020-02-09T22:49:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No one
2020-02-09T22:49:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Another joke
2020-02-09T22:49:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just funny that it runs on Linux
2020-02-09T22:49:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> Navigation in Powershell is a meme
2020-02-09T22:49:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I hate the commands
2020-02-09T22:50:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> I've never felt more incompetent
2020-02-09T22:50:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I did a year of Windows networking + CISCO at university
2020-02-09T22:50:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> God it was awful
2020-02-09T22:50:58 #kisslinux <altius> So you know how I feel everytime I'm in front of my computer.
2020-02-09T22:51:08 #kisslinux <altius> XD
2020-02-09T22:52:06 #kisslinux <altius> I'm not into Windows, really. I sometimes touch that for friends and at work. I don't like it. At all.
2020-02-09T22:52:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't like it either
2020-02-09T22:52:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> We all started at zero at some point :)
2020-02-09T22:52:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> Windows just feels gross. At work, at idle, system usage is 7gb/8gb of ram
2020-02-09T22:52:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The worst class I did was the git class
2020-02-09T22:53:00 #kisslinux <altius> What I see a lot in college lately are macs. Every cute student with its apple. Then they talk about politics. I don't really understand.
2020-02-09T22:53:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 15 weeks of basic git commands
2020-02-09T22:53:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> I mean there are a a few programs running and a lot of stuff is happening, but that's without using chrome. which is necessary for my job
2020-02-09T22:53:09 #kisslinux <altius> But must be just me.
2020-02-09T22:53:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I stopped going
2020-02-09T22:53:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> the class was just fifteen weeks of man(1)? xD
2020-02-09T22:53:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius: Yeah, everyone when I went to university had macs
2020-02-09T22:54:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dilyn: Had to collab on bitbucket with some crappy template C# game
2020-02-09T22:54:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My uni was very Windows
2020-02-09T22:54:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I dropped out :')
2020-02-09T22:54:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then did Journalism
2020-02-09T22:54:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then dropped out again
2020-02-09T22:54:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> And now look at you
2020-02-09T22:54:59 #kisslinux <altius> And how you can talk s*** about mega corporations and so on, and have a cute mac? That's what I don't really get, because people does, I have seen it.
2020-02-09T22:55:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Was all social media
2020-02-09T22:55:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Had a 3 hour lecture on emojis
2020-02-09T22:55:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Noped right out
2020-02-09T22:55:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> lolwut
2020-02-09T22:55:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> what a racket!
2020-02-09T22:56:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> altius: i only own a mac because it was cheaper than the xps 13. i sort of regret my decisiion
2020-02-09T22:56:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Me and education don't really mix
2020-02-09T22:57:01 #kisslinux <konimex> 3 hours of emoji, do they teach about the philosophy behind emoji or what
2020-02-09T22:57:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The hidden meaning behind emojis
2020-02-09T22:57:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Was the topic
2020-02-09T22:57:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> iirc
2020-02-09T22:57:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also a week on how James Bond is sexist
2020-02-09T22:58:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> that's like a specific instance of implicatures and they need to reevaluate their priorities
2020-02-09T22:58:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So... I left
2020-02-09T22:58:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> okay well now why on earth is that a topic
2020-02-09T22:58:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Like any sane person would
2020-02-09T22:58:18 #kisslinux <konimex> which Bond? Connery or the later Bond also?
2020-02-09T22:58:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> """"Journalism""""
2020-02-09T22:58:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All bonds
2020-02-09T22:58:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We need a female bond apparently
2020-02-09T22:58:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That sorta thing
2020-02-09T22:58:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I really picked up smoking around this time
2020-02-09T23:00:21 #kisslinux <konimex> > 15 weeks of basic git commands
2020-02-09T23:00:24 #kisslinux <konimex> at least you have that for the non-CLI inclined students
2020-02-09T23:00:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Moral of the story: Don't go to uni in Australia
2020-02-09T23:00:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: This was year 2
2020-02-09T23:00:55 #kisslinux <konimex> year 1 is algorithms, I presume?
2020-02-09T23:01:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I skipped the first year
2020-02-09T23:01:06 #kisslinux <konimex> ah i see
2020-02-09T23:01:10 #kisslinux <altius81> Yep, I'm having a class of Critical Theory now. It's mostly OK, but sometimes it goes... Strange
2020-02-09T23:01:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Entered at 16
2020-02-09T23:01:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 17(?)
2020-02-09T23:01:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't remember
2020-02-09T23:01:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I did no high-school which was nice
2020-02-09T23:02:18 #kisslinux <konimex> using git with people who have no idea about source control (let alone git) is a hell itself, I ended up asking for zipped source and merged it to the git repo
2020-02-09T23:02:25 #kisslinux <altius81> In Australia you can go to Uni without high school?
2020-02-09T23:02:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius81: Not normally
2020-02-09T23:02:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can talk your way into anything though
2020-02-09T23:03:25 #kisslinux <altius81> Have you got a proper public system, or is it all paid?
2020-02-09T23:03:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Legally I should've been at high-school until 16 regardless
2020-02-09T23:04:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Public Primary and High school is free iirc
2020-02-09T23:04:11 #kisslinux <altius81> Here, you have to be...
2020-02-09T23:04:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> University is "free"
2020-02-09T23:04:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The government takes out a loan in your name and you only pay if you make $40k+ a year
2020-02-09T23:04:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The government then takes it out of your bank account in increments
2020-02-09T23:05:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> s/if/when/
2020-02-09T23:06:07 #kisslinux <altius81> That doesn't looks bad. I sure don't earn that amount, I musn't be paying now for my education
2020-02-09T23:06:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It'd be relative to the wage of the country
2020-02-09T23:06:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I wouldn't make it where I live now either
2020-02-09T23:07:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though cost of living is far far lower
2020-02-09T23:07:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's relative
2020-02-09T23:07:35 #kisslinux <altius81> This year's been cheaper because last year I scored a couple highs, and they discount money from the payment because of that
2020-02-09T23:07:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Cigarettes in Australia will hit $50 a packet (of 20) soon
2020-02-09T23:08:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I think they're around $40~ a packet now
2020-02-09T23:08:39 #kisslinux <konimex> AU$ or US$?
2020-02-09T23:08:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> AUD
2020-02-09T23:08:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 26-27 USD
2020-02-09T23:09:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> that's heinous
2020-02-09T23:09:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I pay 4 euros here
2020-02-09T23:09:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm happy
2020-02-09T23:09:14 #kisslinux <konimex> well damn that's 18x more expensive than cigarettes here
2020-02-09T23:09:29 #kisslinux <konimex> although I don't smoke personally
2020-02-09T23:09:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A beer at a bar is $10 AUD in Australia
2020-02-09T23:09:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's crazy
2020-02-09T23:09:55 #kisslinux <altius81> Really? Here it's about 4-5 euros. But it's way expensive according to salary... If you are just a random worker, as I am.
2020-02-09T23:10:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius81: Worldwide it equates to an 1-1.5 hours work at average wage iirc
2020-02-09T23:10:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This matches Greece and Australia at the very least
2020-02-09T23:11:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In actuality I buy tobacco, papers and filters which works out to 9 euros over 3 days
2020-02-09T23:12:05 #kisslinux <altius81> Hah, alcoholic drinks are not that expensive here (beer, at least)
2020-02-09T23:12:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius81: Cheaper than water here
2020-02-09T23:12:51 #kisslinux <altius81> We have a lotta hell of tourists from GB and Deutschland
2020-02-09T23:13:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Same
2020-02-09T23:13:19 #kisslinux <altius81> They drink as there'll be no tomorrow
2020-02-09T23:13:22 #kisslinux <altius81> The
2020-02-09T23:13:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lots of Balkans come here too
2020-02-09T23:13:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do you know of Aristotle Onassis?
2020-02-09T23:14:17 #kisslinux <altius81> They jump from their hotel rooms to (supposedly) swimming pools, and fail sometimes
2020-02-09T23:14:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-02-09T23:14:59 #kisslinux <altius81> Every year, some dead, some, well, broken bones and stuff
2020-02-09T23:15:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-02-09T23:15:18 #kisslinux <altius81> Pure darwinian selection
2020-02-09T23:16:06 #kisslinux <altius81> Not much. A guy with lotsa money, was it?
2020-02-09T23:16:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He controlled the world's oil and owned Monaco for some time
2020-02-09T23:17:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He owned an island 3km~ from where I am
2020-02-09T23:17:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle_Onassis
2020-02-09T23:17:34 #kisslinux <altius81> Lotsa money for sure then. :O
2020-02-09T23:18:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He was married to Jackie Kennedy
2020-02-09T23:18:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Former wife to JFK
2020-02-09T23:18:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Crazy life
2020-02-09T23:19:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My landlord was good friends with him
2020-02-09T23:20:26 #kisslinux <altius81> I have always thought that you can't make that much money and be a saint...
2020-02-09T23:20:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He built the town I live in right now
2020-02-09T23:21:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Gave everyone money to start their businesses
2020-02-09T23:21:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Installed proper plumbing, etc
2020-02-09T23:21:38 #kisslinux <altius81> So was he the saint I don't believe in?
2020-02-09T23:21:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He left the island he bought to the Greek Government (to the people)
2020-02-09T23:23:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He couldn't have been all good though ;)
2020-02-09T23:23:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> To the Greek people though? He was
2020-02-09T23:24:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> Managed to get f18 to build, but it can't compile a simple fortran program
2020-02-09T23:24:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> i love it
2020-02-09T23:24:16 #kisslinux <altius81> That is really cool. I don't want to be a Scrooge and say, "but that's just a part of the story", so I won't. But I did! XD
2020-02-09T23:24:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> altius81: lol
2020-02-09T23:25:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The Greek Government sold his island to a Russian billionaire
2020-02-09T23:26:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you get too close with a boat, a gun ship will force you to leave
2020-02-09T23:26:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I know first hand :^)
2020-02-09T23:26:46 #kisslinux <altius81> Heh. It's nice here, but tomorrow I work all day, still have to set up some lectures for class, and learn how to create kiss packaging. XD
2020-02-09T23:28:20 #kisslinux <altius> Now that I know the way, I'll sure be back. I hope with less noobish questions. Have a good night/day/whatever, all of you!
2020-02-09T23:28:56 #kisslinux <altius> And Dylan, you will get bored to read this, but thank you again, you really rock! :)
2020-02-09T23:29:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-02-09T23:29:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No problem
2020-02-09T23:29:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm gonna go to bed now