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Re: "Is Free Will Incompatibility with Atheism?"
Iād say from a subjective point of view, it would seem like we have free will. I decided to pull out my phone and write this reply. However, at least part of me agrees with @yingfan in that we are ābiological machinesā. If that is the case then my thoughts are just product of a material process in my brain then I donāt see any room for free will.
@Total_FLOSS you said, ā[T]here is something fascinating about the phenomenon that makes it difficult to tell for sure wether or not it is just a predictable determined process.ā I agree it is fascinating. Iād like to know you opinion, if free will / consciousness isnāt a product of a āpredictable determined processā then where does it come from?
Iām rather agnostic on the issue though. I donāt have any strong beliefs on the matter.
Nov 15 Ā· 5 weeks ago
š² Total_FLOSS [mod] Ā· Nov 16 at 00:06:
@CitySlicker
The fascinating thing is that it is visible on different levels, the lower levels (mouses) are pretty predictable, but the higher levels are less and less measurable, but more capable. The really high levels of free will are capable of manipulating the result of the measurement itself or even how it is measured, causing it to be immeasurable in the end. The decisionmaking can extend into the future to prevent the decision from being deterministic.
In the end, if our toughts and will are deterministic, I think our will is capable of making itself free.
But in the end, I do not know it. There are alot of factors playing here, the speed of toughts, what influences the electric pulses, the ability of our neurons to rewire itself if it is desired, situational awareness in different situations, unlocking memories without reason (or maybe exactly because of a reason), our body sending different signals to our brains, the timing of our actions.
There is this tought experiment where someone sits in a room, eventually standing up randomly. Would this person stand up at that exact moment when the beginning would exactly be replayed?
The answer? If a man has as objective to stand up randomly, he can think up of anything that makes his decision more randomly. He can try to sense everything in his surroundings and body, knowing that the slightest detail could help him get more chances at being random. He utilizes his will to make his will more responsive to the slightest changes asswel, he can even sit there for a year or more, eating and sleeping and dreaming and singing, giving him more time and arsenal of emotions to let the butterfly effect take place and make his brain more responsive to enhance the butterfly effect. And eventually he might even find a true solution to his problem while he is sitting.
But, one has to be smart enough, intelligent enough to pull this off. This is why mouses won't have that much free will where a dog or dolphin has more free will and where others have more free will then others.
Fascinating isn't it?
šŖ Rochelimit Ā· Nov 17 at 17:34:
It depends. ;)
... on how you define free will. Fundamentally it's about whether when the mind makes a decision it is not hindered from carrying out the related action. It doesn't really matter how the decision comes about, whether the mind is deterministic or not, but whether the individual free to choose.
I get the impression that this problem derives originally from a dualist view of mind/brain - that is, does a deterministic brain hinder the freedom of the mind? But the mind is a behaviour of the brain, so that conception of free will is no longer useful.
In my mind, free will only makes sense at the level of an individual's actions as related to external impediments.
š² Total_FLOSS [mod] Ā· Nov 17 at 22:16:
@Rochelimit I would argue that the question can then be simplified to: is there something that is not deterministic? If no, then there is no good way for free will to exist, if yes, then the only thing our will has to do is reach that non-deterministic aspect and let it influence the decision making.
Maybe the mind is already capable of reaching these unpredictable aspects, I don't know.
š² Total_FLOSS [mod] Ā· Nov 17 at 22:19:
So in my opinion, free will could exist, but it is not effortless.
Is Free Will Incompatibility with Atheism? ā Iād be interested in hearing what people here think. It seems to me that if we live in a purely material universe all of our thoughts are a product of the neurochemistry going on in our brain. This leaves little for free will to exist. Please feel free to explain your reasoning for belief for or against.