💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2024-11-28.txt captured on 2024-12-17 at 11:35:15.
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[2024-11-28T00:45:02Z] <riteo> soju + senpai = comfy [2024-11-28T00:45:12Z] <riteo> except when you want an encrypted local setup >:[ [2024-11-28T00:45:23Z] <riteo> why the hell is TLS the only solution here for encryption [2024-11-28T00:45:44Z] <sad_plan> riteo: for sure. I used it on pico.sh, and senpai at the very least is very comfy [2024-11-28T00:46:09Z] <sad_plan> whats wrong with tls? [2024-11-28T00:46:34Z] <riteo> it's not built with local networks in mind really [2024-11-28T00:46:55Z] <riteo> I need a new root of trust and sign shit there, that or a self-signed certificate [2024-11-28T00:47:15Z] <riteo> both suck and now that shit's expired I also forgot the openssl commands to do that :facepalm: [2024-11-28T00:47:42Z] <sad_plan> maybe not. I would be using both local and remote though. not sure if this makes things better or worse :p [2024-11-28T00:48:06Z] <riteo> remote means you'll have (probably) a domain name [2024-11-28T00:48:12Z] <riteo> that means you're fine [2024-11-28T00:48:44Z] <sad_plan> well, it would just be a rpi at my house, and ill be at work connecting to the bouncer [2024-11-28T00:49:40Z] <riteo> directly through IP? [2024-11-28T00:50:19Z] <riteo> I hope I'm missing something but it looks like if you wanna make a cert for a local hostname you have to make a whole new root of trust /or/ self signed certs which I don't think are trusted either by default [2024-11-28T00:50:55Z] <riteo> which is annoying as that means copying stuff into some system dir I forgot for every machine you want [2024-11-28T00:51:57Z] <riteo> I have no idea if there are alternatives but it really feels like senpai and soju are designed more for public-facing servers than lil local ones [2024-11-28T00:52:01Z] <riteo> and I mean I don't blame them [2024-11-28T00:52:46Z] <sad_plan> I suppose so, yes. I am considering using ssh tunneling instead, not sure whats least inconvinent tbh [2024-11-28T00:53:18Z] <riteo> I mean if you use ssh tunneling and not ssh directly I guess you could offset that yeah [2024-11-28T00:54:21Z] <sad_plan> I suppose so [2024-11-28T03:30:21Z] <midfavila> https://www.crowdsupply.com/shenzhen-tianmao-technology/genbook-rk3588 [2024-11-28T03:30:27Z] <midfavila> you guys might find this neat [2024-11-28T03:30:56Z] <midfavila> strikes a good balance between the more mainstream design and cost-to-performance ratio of the framework and the being-actually-well-designed factor of the mnt reform [2024-11-28T03:31:42Z] <midfavila> 700USD for a 32GB eight-core ARM machine with (presumably on launch or maybe rn in a github?) open schematics and a decent display and stuff [2024-11-28T03:31:46Z] <midfavila> it's much more laptop-y [2024-11-28T03:32:13Z] <midfavila> i'm hoping they produce a cm4 adapter since that seems to be an emerging de facto standard for a lot of open projects [2024-11-28T03:32:35Z] <midfavila> ala SoMs [2024-11-28T03:34:46Z] <midfavila> schems on their website and BoM for the SoM. nice. [2024-11-28T03:36:06Z] <midfavila> honestly this is a super great project if they can deliver on it as is. it's low cost and reasonably performant, with a more off-the-shelf look and feel, without (seemingly) compromising on its principles in a significant manner... [2024-11-28T04:12:41Z] <sad_plan> neat [2024-11-28T04:17:01Z] <sad_plan> honestly, this would probably be much more appealing to the masses than mnt reform, atleast speaking from formfactor pov. when you shop a laptop, its supposed to be portable, lightweight and easy to carry. I dont see the reform gaining too many points there :p [2024-11-28T04:18:19Z] <sad_plan> I think I could see myself using this laptop tbh [2024-11-28T04:22:57Z] <midfavila> idk reform is plenty portable [2024-11-28T04:23:17Z] <midfavila> unless youre judging by like a backpack laptop slot in which case mmmnmhm [2024-11-28T04:23:19Z] <midfavila> but yeah [2024-11-28T04:23:39Z] <midfavila> that one is definitely more conventional [2024-11-28T04:26:26Z] <sad_plan> perhaps im judgemental to its formfactor. seeing how thick it is. how much does it weigh even? [2024-11-28T04:27:04Z] <midfavila> like maye 4lbs [2024-11-28T04:27:08Z] <midfavila> maybe* [2024-11-28T04:27:14Z] <midfavila> maybe [2024-11-28T04:28:07Z] <midfavila> ig if youre a biceplet that could be an issue but i take it to work on my bike in a messenger bag and honestly my bike lock is heavier [2024-11-28T04:28:12Z] <midfavila> significantly so [2024-11-28T04:28:56Z] <sad_plan> 4lbs isnt *that* bad. I mean, it could be double that [2024-11-28T04:29:17Z] <sad_plan> tbh, my acer laptop probably isnt that much lighter [2024-11-28T04:29:24Z] <midfavila> 4lbs is pretty good [2024-11-28T04:29:40Z] <midfavila> i think the uconsole approaches a pound [2024-11-28T04:29:49Z] <midfavila> just handfeeling it [2024-11-28T04:29:59Z] <sad_plan> I havent weighed mine, but 4lbs doesnt sound too bad for such a thick laptop [2024-11-28T04:30:00Z] <midfavila> so ye [2024-11-28T04:30:02Z] <sad_plan> damn [2024-11-28T04:30:14Z] <midfavila> tbf tho the uconsole is a brick [2024-11-28T04:30:53Z] <midfavila> gonna be even moreso once i cram 4 more batteries in there [2024-11-28T04:31:05Z] <midfavila> 21Ah here we come >:3c [2024-11-28T04:31:09Z] <sad_plan> a forum post says uconsole weighs ~450g [2024-11-28T04:31:16Z] <midfavila> 454==1lb [2024-11-28T04:31:25Z] <midfavila> so right on the money [2024-11-28T04:31:28Z] <sad_plan> which is.. probably 4x ish the regular phone weight [2024-11-28T04:31:30Z] <sad_plan> yep [2024-11-28T04:31:56Z] <sad_plan> how many batteries doest it come with? 2? [2024-11-28T04:32:01Z] <midfavila> yeb [2024-11-28T04:32:09Z] <midfavila> 2 18650 lipos in parallel [2024-11-28T04:32:18Z] <sad_plan> neat [2024-11-28T04:32:28Z] <midfavila> someone on the forum modified the battery board to have four more terminals [2024-11-28T04:33:04Z] <midfavila> i already get a full day out of the uconsole on a single charge [2024-11-28T04:33:12Z] <midfavila> with the screen on all day [2024-11-28T04:33:31Z] <sad_plan> not too bad. even on regular phones, that can be tough [2024-11-28T04:33:36Z] <midfavila> yeb [2024-11-28T04:33:53Z] <midfavila> also keep in mind that it runs a full fat ubuntu [2024-11-28T04:34:11Z] <midfavila> so sysd/networkman/modemman/pulse/etc are all running too [2024-11-28T04:34:37Z] <sad_plan> yeah, it could probably run somewhat leaner if it ran something less than full fledged ubuntu [2024-11-28T04:34:41Z] <midfavila> a leaner, better-optimised image with proper suspend support would probably fare a lil better [2024-11-28T04:34:44Z] <midfavila> ye [2024-11-28T04:34:57Z] <sad_plan> yep [2024-11-28T04:35:02Z] <midfavila> im hoping to get back to fiddling with it soon [2024-11-28T04:35:18Z] <sad_plan> yeah [2024-11-28T04:35:25Z] <midfavila> i wanna rebuild the base image from source, then try to get a plain debian [2024-11-28T04:35:48Z] <midfavila> once i can do that i'll have the build down plus all the essentials from clockwork isolated [2024-11-28T04:36:01Z] <midfavila> after that gonna experiment with alpine [2024-11-28T04:36:21Z] <midfavila> if alpine can run, anything can [2024-11-28T04:37:13Z] <midfavila> that means a kiss image and then work starts on curses programs [2024-11-28T04:37:49Z] <midfavila> at some point id like to write a library that abstracts over xaw/curses/etc and just use that [2024-11-28T04:38:15Z] <midfavila> present a simplified interface for creating CUA programs for either toolkit [2024-11-28T04:39:19Z] <sad_plan> I was going to say alpine doesnt provide riscv rootfs's, or isos, but then I saw it [2024-11-28T04:39:27Z] <sad_plan> its only a mini rootfs though, not isos [2024-11-28T04:39:44Z] <sad_plan> but yes, if alpine runs, most other things should for sure run [2024-11-28T04:40:02Z] <midfavila> the build process for the r01 image calls for a rootfs only [2024-11-28T04:40:49Z] <sad_plan> why? is this a riscv thing or a uconsole thing or..? [2024-11-28T04:40:49Z] <midfavila> basically entails creating a raw disk image, partitioning and formatting it, injecting the spl and uboot into the first 32m, [2024-11-28T04:41:18Z] <midfavila> then installing grub (and syslinux???) onto the boot partition and pointing that at the rootfs [2024-11-28T04:41:27Z] <midfavila> its a uconsole thing i think [2024-11-28T04:41:41Z] <sad_plan> I see [2024-11-28T04:42:03Z] <midfavila> its weird [2024-11-28T04:42:09Z] <sad_plan> yeah [2024-11-28T04:42:10Z] <midfavila> they dont have good docs at all [2024-11-28T04:42:28Z] <sad_plan> hopefully itll come once riscv gets a better foothold [2024-11-28T04:42:36Z] <midfavila> it wont [2024-11-28T04:42:47Z] <midfavila> i think the r01 was intended mostly as a novelty [2024-11-28T04:42:55Z] <midfavila> which sucks because its a great som [2024-11-28T04:43:08Z] <midfavila> add emmc to it and id be cheesed [2024-11-28T04:43:27Z] <midfavila> even moreso if you replaced the sd slot with a CF one [2024-11-28T04:43:30Z] <midfavila> or had both [2024-11-28T04:43:32Z] <sad_plan> whats so good about emmc? ive always found it restricting [2024-11-28T04:43:44Z] <sad_plan> CF? [2024-11-28T04:43:47Z] <midfavila> not needing an sd card to boot off of [2024-11-28T04:43:52Z] <midfavila> compactflash [2024-11-28T04:44:13Z] <sad_plan> well, sure thats an advantage. [2024-11-28T04:44:16Z] <sad_plan> whats that? [2024-11-28T04:44:26Z] <midfavila> basically miniaturised IDE [2024-11-28T04:44:31Z] <midfavila> used in cameras a lot [2024-11-28T04:44:34Z] <sad_plan> hm [2024-11-28T04:44:41Z] <midfavila> old iPods used it for their 1.8" HDDs [2024-11-28T04:45:03Z] <midfavila> some industrial machines use it as primary storage instead of a full size disk [2024-11-28T04:45:03Z] <sad_plan> I see [2024-11-28T04:45:14Z] <sad_plan> got it [2024-11-28T04:45:17Z] <sad_plan> its smol [2024-11-28T04:45:32Z] <midfavila> smol, cheap, easy to support [2024-11-28T04:45:46Z] <sad_plan> and more reliable than sdcards aswell? [2024-11-28T04:45:50Z] <midfavila> fits with the retrofuture aesthetic [2024-11-28T04:45:58Z] <midfavila> less of a bitch to get in and out [2024-11-28T04:46:00Z] <midfavila> afaik yes [2024-11-28T04:46:05Z] <sad_plan> nice [2024-11-28T04:46:15Z] <midfavila> since most CFs are used in cameras etc [2024-11-28T04:46:31Z] <sad_plan> sdcards and usbsticks are horrendiously unreliable for storage initially [2024-11-28T04:46:36Z] <midfavila> im sure high performance SD cards are competitive but i honestly dont know [2024-11-28T04:47:02Z] <sad_plan> i think I remember those now that you mention it. i think my dad had one of them in a digital camera. unless someone else in the family had it [2024-11-28T04:47:14Z] <midfavila> yeah i need to set up a script to sync my homedirs between my lappy and uconsole [2024-11-28T04:48:05Z] <sad_plan> yeah, im hoping to get an sdcard for my pi tomorrow, and a new cable for it, so that I can use it to rsync some stuff myself [2024-11-28T04:48:11Z] <midfavila> then i need to get plan9port running on the uconsole >w> [2024-11-28T04:48:21Z] <sad_plan> nice [2024-11-28T04:48:46Z] <midfavila> i honestly love this lil thing [2024-11-28T04:48:50Z] <sad_plan> have you tried compiling upstream 9front stuff instead of p9p? some of it should work right ootb [2024-11-28T04:48:58Z] <sad_plan> rc atleast, or so Ive been told [2024-11-28T04:49:08Z] <midfavila> ive gotten rc running [2024-11-28T04:49:21Z] <sad_plan> nice [2024-11-28T04:49:24Z] <midfavila> ye [2024-11-28T04:49:31Z] <midfavila> never bothered with the rest [2024-11-28T04:49:47Z] <midfavila> too focused on spinning up my custom distro [2024-11-28T04:50:02Z] <sad_plan> I dont really use much of p9 stuff outside of rc. and read from 9base, because of a script I use, which requires read [2024-11-28T04:50:05Z] <sad_plan> I get that [2024-11-28T04:50:47Z] <midfavila> still need to figure out X forwarding over TAP interfaces... [2024-11-28T04:50:51Z] <midfavila> for qemu [2024-11-28T04:51:04Z] <sad_plan> what will you be forwarding? [2024-11-28T04:51:17Z] <midfavila> i kinda wanna experiment with ideas from qubes [2024-11-28T04:51:33Z] <sad_plan> I see. separating things into its own boxes [2024-11-28T04:51:44Z] <midfavila> where you can spin up a headless alpine to run a given application [2024-11-28T04:51:47Z] <midfavila> yeah [2024-11-28T04:52:04Z] <sad_plan> its a good practice security wise [2024-11-28T04:52:20Z] <midfavila> so if theres stuff you dont trust/dont want corrupting the bodily fluids of your pure distro/etc you can do so easily [2024-11-28T04:52:40Z] <midfavila> tbh its mostly because i want to use firefox without installing its deps [2024-11-28T04:52:53Z] <sad_plan> yep. I separate garbage apps on my phone into its own user profile aswell. [2024-11-28T04:52:53Z] <midfavila> or using regular normie software EUGH [2024-11-28T04:53:14Z] <midfavila> i WILL use bearssl and NOBODY will stop me [2024-11-28T04:53:42Z] <sad_plan> could also use conty aswell, which might be a less inconvinent way of doing it [2024-11-28T04:53:50Z] <midfavila> conty? [2024-11-28T04:54:00Z] <midfavila> is that a containerisation thing? [2024-11-28T04:54:18Z] <sad_plan> here https://github.com/kron4ek/conty [2024-11-28T04:54:23Z] <sad_plan> its basically just a chroot [2024-11-28T04:54:50Z] <sad_plan> but it supports compression, x11, wayland, xwayland, drawfs squashfs [2024-11-28T04:55:15Z] <sad_plan> its mostly geared torwards gaming it seems, but you can use it for just firefox and other stuff aswell [2024-11-28T04:55:36Z] <midfavila> bing bing wahoos!? [2024-11-28T04:56:13Z] <sad_plan> what? [2024-11-28T04:57:04Z] <midfavila> nvm :P [2024-11-28T04:57:17Z] <midfavila> conty looks maybe interesting tho [2024-11-28T04:58:30Z] <sad_plan> yeah. you can also build it yourself pretty easily, so you can include only what you want. which is quite good imo [2024-11-28T04:58:46Z] <sad_plan> ive not gotten it to work on my setup yet, have no idea why, but oh well [2024-11-28T04:59:02Z] <sad_plan> maybe this is a tinyx thing. havent tried in velox yet [2024-11-28T04:59:13Z] <midfavila> tinyx is funky [2024-11-28T04:59:16Z] <sad_plan> yeah [2024-11-28T04:59:24Z] <midfavila> i like it though [2024-11-28T04:59:47Z] <midfavila> id like to work on it once i know more about C and X etc [2024-11-28T04:59:54Z] <sad_plan> yeah [2024-11-28T04:59:59Z] <midfavila> ofc id prefer MGR but beggars and choosers [2024-11-28T05:00:11Z] <sad_plan> mgr? [2024-11-28T05:00:19Z] <midfavila> ManaGeR [2024-11-28T05:00:22Z] <sad_plan> ah [2024-11-28T05:00:26Z] <midfavila> ancient graphics subsystem [2024-11-28T05:00:33Z] <midfavila> cross platform for unixes [2024-11-28T05:00:47Z] <sad_plan> yeah, i think i seen it mentioned in the irc logs [2024-11-28T05:00:54Z] <midfavila> monochrome. basically a supremely advanced terminal multiplexer [2024-11-28T05:01:00Z] <sad_plan> hm [2024-11-28T05:01:10Z] <midfavila> network transparent, native integration with termcap [2024-11-28T05:01:30Z] <midfavila> entire codebase is like 1-200k lines of C (albeit pre KnR) [2024-11-28T05:01:35Z] <midfavila> including drivers [2024-11-28T05:01:51Z] <midfavila> has C and ELisp binds [2024-11-28T05:02:03Z] <sad_plan> I see [2024-11-28T05:02:06Z] <midfavila> ive gotten it to build and like, *start* [2024-11-28T05:02:10Z] <midfavila> on KISS [2024-11-28T05:02:15Z] <midfavila> but never actually run [2024-11-28T05:02:45Z] <midfavila> if i could get mgr going i would lose my mind [2024-11-28T05:03:25Z] <midfavila> it feels very unix-y [2024-11-28T05:03:26Z] <sad_plan> lol [2024-11-28T05:03:31Z] <midfavila> seriously [2024-11-28T05:03:38Z] <midfavila> its super clean and lightweight [2024-11-28T05:03:45Z] <sad_plan> g2g though. time for bed for me [2024-11-28T05:03:49Z] <midfavila> rip [2024-11-28T05:06:37Z] <midfavila> ooh [2024-11-28T05:06:52Z] <midfavila> conty can be used to isolate build environments maybe... [2024-11-28T05:13:57Z] <midfavila> hmm [2024-11-28T05:14:55Z] <midfavila> if a conty-like solution could be retooled to work under tinyx and be further isolated from the host, it could be a compelling improvement over the qemu x11 idea... [2024-11-28T13:40:19Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: yep, conty could be a viable alternative to the qmeu x11 idea [2024-11-28T19:10:34Z] <sad_plan> ive been testing dtach and abduco for a few days now, and I cant help but feel that its less convinent that just having window groups. a simple keypress to hide/unhide w/e it is you wanna see/dont see. as opposed to having to detach/attach programs. [2024-11-28T19:11:13Z] <sad_plan> not sure why, but I also have to redraw the terminal, especially catgirl. cmus seems to work fine [2024-11-28T19:13:38Z] <sad_plan> using tabbed for the terminal could also be an alternative here, maybe even a better one, but wmutils wont properly connect to it if you use $(pfw), as itll try to move/resize the wrong window id [2024-11-28T19:13:43Z] * sad_plan shrugs [2024-11-28T19:13:58Z] <sad_plan> I suppose window groups is superior [2024-11-28T22:08:01Z] <midfavila> tbqh ive never liked dtwm [2024-11-28T22:08:10Z] <midfavila> or abduco [2024-11-28T22:08:18Z] <midfavila> dtach(1) plus mtm(1) is honestly peak [2024-11-28T22:08:36Z] <midfavila> only issue i take with mtm is that it doesn't link against portable netbsd-curses [2024-11-28T22:08:45Z] <midfavila> due to a single instance of a gnuism [2024-11-28T22:09:16Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/deadpixi/mtm [2024-11-28T22:09:34Z] <midfavila> also has tmt, a simple terminal implementation [2024-11-28T22:09:41Z] <midfavila> deadpixi is really skilled [2024-11-28T22:10:31Z] <midfavila> i would love to implement a super simple X11 terminal on top of libtmt and athena to replace xterm [2024-11-28T22:11:39Z] <midfavila> also re wmutils iirc it's something to do with the X11 window ID being linked to the wm's frame and not the client window itself [2024-11-28T22:11:44Z] <midfavila> i've had weird experiences with that [2024-11-28T22:13:14Z] <midfavila> mannnnnnnn [2024-11-28T22:13:21Z] <midfavila> i want my mnt reform mainboard back so badly ;w; [2024-11-28T22:34:50Z] <midfavila> ive really had a hankering for getting back into programming