💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2024-11-11.txt captured on 2024-12-17 at 11:35:32.
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[2024-11-11T04:16:44Z] <midfavila> sad_plan vova right now i'm just taking the core of my kiss repos and packing them up [2024-11-11T04:16:55Z] <midfavila> as usual the problem remains with a native build of GCC >:C [2024-11-11T04:18:07Z] <midfavila> all my searches result in "lol use a distro that has a native gcc that's easier' [2024-11-11T04:18:13Z] <midfavila> which is distinctly unhelpful [2024-11-11T07:40:53Z] <vova> what about going gnuless [2024-11-11T07:41:14Z] <vova> llvm based compiler only instead GCC based [2024-11-11T07:41:21Z] <vova> instead of GCC based * [2024-11-11T07:43:24Z] <midfavila> honestly i might use cproc+qbe to bootstrap an old gcc and then from there build a new one [2024-11-11T07:43:36Z] <midfavila> i'm so fuckin done with gcc's shit though i swear [2024-11-11T08:42:19Z] <riteo> the cproc route sounds super interesting [2024-11-11T09:19:47Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: that might be the way to go tbh. [2024-11-11T09:37:59Z] <sad_plan> you may also try stage0 -> mes -> tinycc-bootstrap -> gcc-2.95 -> gcc-4.7 -> any modern gcc. [2024-11-11T11:21:01Z] <vova> also [2024-11-11T11:22:09Z] <vova> is anyone really interested in rewriting the kiss package manager ? a new one in C or Zig or whatever, with virtual package, restricted packages (prevent accidental deletion of kiss or busybox), sandboxed build (proot) [2024-11-11T11:22:42Z] <vova> I started to do it, but I hope it'll replace the POSIX shell version of it [2024-11-11T11:52:29Z] <phoebos> vova: maybe you missed my message last time - https://kisscommunity.bvnf.space/kiss/universe/ [2024-11-11T11:53:52Z] <phoebos> zig was dropped by its maintainer [2024-11-11T11:54:17Z] <vova> oh [2024-11-11T11:54:24Z] <vova> yeah my bad didn't see it [2024-11-11T19:11:06Z] <riteo> vova I'm, slowly, in my free-free-time working on a lil C implementation myself [2024-11-11T19:11:26Z] <vova> nice, same ! [2024-11-11T19:11:34Z] <riteo> although my very long term plans are to make a sort of fork of the package format itself to allow some niceties and optimize to a very particular usecase [2024-11-11T19:12:53Z] <riteo> like, I want to make an as-little-bandwidth-as-possible version of kiss, with all the complexity it might entail [2024-11-11T19:13:09Z] <vova> I think I'd be a good idea to create a new repo on codeberg to discuss about a new kiss package manager, with yes a new format for the files (except build), like adding a maintainer files, why not a provides file, or even join everything inside a single file like butcher (sabotage Linux) [2024-11-11T19:13:15Z] <riteo> and other niceties like consistent, isolated buil packaging and shit like that [2024-11-11T19:13:40Z] <riteo> vova: in my opinion, that would be different from kiss [2024-11-11T19:14:00Z] <riteo> like, kiss linux is extremely limited. That also makes it extremely simple. [2024-11-11T19:14:15Z] <riteo> some people might be perfectly fine with that. Think about slackware which is even simpler AFAIU [2024-11-11T19:15:14Z] <vova> I never used Slackware but from what I've read it's a mix of classic Unix with a port system à la *BSD [2024-11-11T19:15:36Z] <riteo> also wrt provides, I'd argue that there are a lot of kiss-y ways to implement that and not necessarily a provides file [2024-11-11T19:16:24Z] <riteo> like, in my various notes I pointed out that if a package is indeed "reproducible" as in, does not fetch shit from the environment, we could also bundle a manifest file and use that as the provides list [2024-11-11T19:16:38Z] <vova> do you think it'd still be a good idea to rewrite kiss in C ? It'd allow for example to not have git installed (using libgit2 directly), nor curl (libcurl), all of that statically linked in a single bin [2024-11-11T19:16:45Z] <riteo> so that a package could depend on a file such as `/bin/cc` `/bin/ninja` and whatever [2024-11-11T19:17:25Z] <riteo> vova: in all honesty, yes, a nice C statically linked version would be very worth it [2024-11-11T19:17:46Z] <riteo> although a distro shipping it altogether would become its own flavor of kiss, IMO [2024-11-11T19:18:02Z] <riteo> Maybe I'm just too nostalgic or whatever but I seriously think that the POSIX script is what made kiss... kiss [2024-11-11T19:18:18Z] <vova> it is in some ways [2024-11-11T19:18:30Z] <vova> just like the baseinit in pure POSIX shell [2024-11-11T19:18:49Z] <riteo> oh yeah that interface is a very overlooked part [2024-11-11T19:19:10Z] <riteo> an hypotethical kiss+ could build on that too [2024-11-11T19:19:20Z] <vova> I'm not against pure POSIX shell, but what bother me with it is the fact that you must rely on global variable instead of having something more clean with `local` variables [2024-11-11T19:19:52Z] <vova> a good kiss reimplementation should in any way be retrocompatible with the POSIX shell kiss version [2024-11-11T19:20:04Z] <riteo> yeah [2024-11-11T19:20:24Z] <riteo> wrt posix shell, in all fairness the medium has been stretched a bit to allow for a whole package manager to happen [2024-11-11T19:21:07Z] <riteo> like, given the level of complexity I'd have... Yeah I know... Gone for a proper scripting language like python [2024-11-11T19:22:09Z] <riteo> that's actually my workflow recently. If it's easier to mess around with python I usually do to test whether an idea is good and then write it properly in C [2024-11-11T19:22:19Z] <riteo> because string handling :shudders: [2024-11-11T19:28:48Z] <vova> hehe yeah python is nice for quick prototyping [2024-11-11T21:21:35Z] <phinxy> git.busybox.net has expired certificate, kiss fails to curl tarballs [2024-11-11T21:46:20Z] <phoebos> phinxy: yes, but in repo the busybox source is a release on busybox.net, not git [2024-11-11T21:46:29Z] <phoebos> what tarballs can't you download [2024-11-11T21:47:31Z] <phinxy> I found the tarball on ubuntu.com [2024-11-11T21:48:13Z] <phoebos> which tarball [2024-11-11T21:48:20Z] <phoebos> busybox.net is fine [2024-11-11T21:50:10Z] <phinxy> https://git.busybox.net/busybox/snapshot/busybox-MAJOR_MINOR_PATCH.tar.bz2 [2024-11-11T21:50:43Z] <phinxy> Firefox complains about expired cert on my end [2024-11-11T21:51:28Z] <phoebos> are you using... dylan's repo? [2024-11-11T21:51:31Z] <phinxy> Before I waste your time; I'm using Dylan's kisslinux, not community [2024-11-11T21:52:54Z] <phinxy> I'm getting a Thinkpad which I plan to install newest kisslinux. Or Alpine, havent decided [2024-11-11T22:03:07Z] <sad_plan> phinxy: use community. dylans is outdated by a long shot by now [2024-11-11T22:04:25Z] <phinxy> My Firefox version was so old it wasnt affected by the CSS animation limeline 0day